# [EVDL] planetary gears



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The transfer cases are intriguing; overkill for a motorcycle, but it 
would probably be interesting for a rear-wheel drive car conversion. 
Save a lot of weight and some room. Thanks - more things to think about!

- SteveS



> Mark Eidson wrote:
> > http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transfer_case_gateway.htm
> > has a list of transfercases....
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Steve
???? Funny you should ask about this. It may be contrary to everything we hold dear to on this list but this weekend (Saturday) on extreme 4X4 the show is about transfer case 101. (you can just ignore the noisy icy side of the show if you like) IIRC this includes a section on doublers which is essentially a divorced transfercase with the 4wheel drive conponenets removed from the case leaving a 2 speed planetary doubler with driveshaft input and output. They actually show you how to do it on the show. The show airs on the Spike channel on April 13 1:30 P Eastern and Pacific time. 
???? If they have the wrong show on you can go to the Powerblock TV website to see what I am talking about. 
???? I was thinking that this approach might be cheaper than going with a Street Lenco setup. I have to admit that I haven't the guts to get a quote from Lenco. 
??????????????????????????????? Rick Miller


-----Original Message-----
From: SteveS <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 9:07 am
Subject: [EVDL] planetary gears



So I've been thinking about inline gears as a possible solution to my 
low gear ratio BMW conversion. Really the perfect solution for me would 
be an inline transmission with two speeds; like 3:1 or 4:1 and 1:1. The 
low gear would be for start up and slow driving (or steep hills). 1:1 
for normal. Actually this would probably be useful on a lot of 
conversions. Anyway, for me, an inline transmission would be best, and 
that means planetary gears. So where does one get a robust set of 
planetary gears at a reasonable cost? Googling around keeps landing me 
at automatic transmissions of which I know little about; I've always 
preferred manual. In any case, it looks like automatics use planetary 
gears. I wonder how hard it would be to pull out the planetary gears 
from an automatic and use that? Anyone have experience with them? Just 
thinking out loud.....

- SteveS

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I need to watch that.



> [email protected] wrote:
> > Steve
> > ???? Funny you should ask about this. It may be contrary to everything we hold dear to on this list but this weekend (Saturday) on extreme 4X4 the show is about transfer case 101. (you can just ignore the noisy icy side of the show if you like) IIRC this includes a section on doublers which is essentially a divorced transfercase with the 4wheel drive conponenets removed from the case leaving a 2 speed planetary doubler with driveshaft input and output. They actually show you how to do it on the show. The show airs on the Spike channel on April 13 1:30 P Eastern and Pacific time.
> > ???? If they have the wrong show on you can go to the Powerblock TV website to see what I am talking about.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> So I've been thinking about inline gears as a possible solution to my 
> low gear ratio BMW conversion. Really the perfect solution for me would 
> be an inline transmission with two speeds; like 3:1 or 4:1 and 1:1.

Klune makes a couple "reduction boxes" that may do what you need. 
"David," two speed, 4:1 and 1:1 or "Goliath," 2.7:1 and 1:1

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/extreme_underdrive_brochure.htm

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/Klune-V_Applications_Manual.htm

--Rick

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was a fourwheeler in a previous life, still am I guess, but now I 
would like to build an electric samurai someday, after I do my first 
one (datsun 1200), anyway I digress. The kline is a great box, I'm 
just not sure you can shift while moving. Most transfer cases require 
that you stop the vehicle, or be doing 1-5 mph to shift to low range. 
I would like to find out if the kline could be shifted like a 
transmission. Could be a great ev trans if so.

FWIW most newer transfer cases have a planetary low range near 2.72 to 
1. The kline 4 to 1 Is custom. You could get the transfer case out of 
many late model 4x4s and cut it up for just the low range section. If 
you could shift it while doing 30 of so then ya boys sumthin!

You could do the gear vedors type box, but the ratio isn't that 
helpfull.

I'd much rather get rid of the oem trans for a planetary set.

Kelly Hales

Sent from my iPhone



> Rick Beebe <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >> So I've been thinking about inline gears as a possible solution to my
> >> low gear ratio BMW conversion. Really the perfect solution for me
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

a GM or aftermarket powerglide is two speed.
the 84-88 "4+3" corvettes had a planetary overdrive
after the 4-speed.
why not just use a regular 3-5 speed manual trans,
e.g. from a S10 PU? adapters already made for them.
Jack


> --- SteveS <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > So I've been thinking about inline gears as a
> > possible solution to my
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'll check into the GM stuff.

I left out the keyword 'motorcycle' in that post, so you can see the S10 
tranny may be a problem! But I could use the tranny for the bike (which 
I have in now), but it's heavy and bulky and I don't need all those 
gears. An inline solution would be elegant and I don't think it's been 
done, so it intrigues me. I do want a functioning vehicle, but I would 
also like to do something that may move the art of EVs ahead a bit.

- SteveS



> Jack Murray wrote:
> > a GM or aftermarket powerglide is two speed.
> > the 84-88 "4+3" corvettes had a planetary overdrive
> > after the 4-speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

ok, powerglide probably not too good for a motorcycle.
not sure what you mean by "inline", I thought that was
inline like std RWD car with inline motor and trans to
rear end. Transverse is how the FWD cars are.
So do you mean "edge-line" like a chain drive, i.e.
have the chain drive the one gear of a planetary
connected to the wheel?

You should consider the CVT belt drive from Comet,
it goes from 4:1 to 1:1. Very lightweight.
http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/aftermarket-torque-converters.asp#94c
Jack



> --- SteveS <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I'll check into the GM stuff.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In a message dated 4/12/2008 2:02:57 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes: 
> L] planetary gears 
> Date:4/12/2008 2:02:57 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet: 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, powerglide probably not too good for a motorcycle.
> not sure what you mean by "inline", I thought that was
> inline like std RWD car with inline motor and trans to
> rear end. Transverse is how the FWD cars are.
> So do you mean "edge-line" like a chain drive, i.e.
> have the chain drive the one gear of a planetary
> connected to the wheel?
> 
> You should consider the CVT belt drive from Comet,
> it goes from 4:1 to 1:1. Very lightweight.
> http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/aftermarket-torque-converters.asp#94c
> Jack



I have a Harley 4 speed tranny all the best gears and case from the early 
days of the current eliminator dragster,it even includes a mount for a 9 in.ge 
motor.It has 2 passes on it.Contact me off list. Dennis Berube 
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

By 'inline' I mean where the input and output shafts are concentric. For 
a shaft drive motorcycle it would be much easier (and hopefully more 
compact) to use a planetary (or other inline) gearset.

- SteveS



> Jack Murray wrote:
> > ok, powerglide probably not too good for a motorcycle.
> > not sure what you mean by "inline", I thought that was
> > inline like std RWD car with inline motor and trans to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Steve have you looked at the set up from any of the BMW flat twins? they 
are shaft drive back to the wheel so output is off set and input is centered 
facing the front,most older (cheaper) are 4speed mid 80s 5 speed some with 
an overdrive ratio Gary Foster
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SteveS" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] planetary gears


> I'll check into the GM stuff.
>
> I left out the keyword 'motorcycle' in that post, so you can see the S10
> tranny may be a problem! But I could use the tranny for the bike (which
> I have in now), but it's heavy and bulky and I don't need all those
> gears. An inline solution would be elegant and I don't think it's been
> done, so it intrigues me. I do want a functioning vehicle, but I would
> also like to do something that may move the art of EVs ahead a bit.
>
> - SteveS
>


> > Jack Murray wrote:
> >> a GM or aftermarket powerglide is two speed.
> >> the 84-88 "4+3" corvettes had a planetary overdrive
> >> after the 4-speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah, I have one of those trannys in there now.:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetviqc/id12.html

(I really hate referencing my site, since everything looks so bad - 
remember, I'm still experimenting!)

It certainly does work, but it takes up a lot room and adds a reasonable 
amount of weight. Since I probably only need two gears, it would be nice 
to find something that provided just that. Of course, as experimenters 
with finite budgets we need to compromise.

BTW, I watched the show on transfer cases mentioned earlier. The 
after-market doubler was really intriguing. Certainly the right concept, 
but probably too heavy and bulky for me. It might be a good solution for 
someone building on a rear drive car chassis. Smaller and lighter than a 
full blown transmission I bet. Question would be if one could shift it 
while moving.


Oh yeah, I finally 'made it':

http://www.evalbum.com/1643

My first EV experiment. Finally finished it up (at least as far I want 
to take it).

-SteveS



> Foster Furniture wrote:
> > Steve have you looked at the set up from any of the BMW flat twins? they
> > are shaft drive back to the wheel so output is off set and input is centered
> > facing the front,most older (cheaper) are 4speed mid 80s 5 speed some with
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Keep going
you have some great ideas
keep us updated
don't worry about what the prototype looks like
form follows function
kEVs


> --- SteveS <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, I have one of those trannys in there now.:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

???? I think you are correct their weight would be high unless you wanted to spend the cash for the alum housings they would probably weigh in the 80 to 120 lb range. My TR6 trans weighs under 70 lbs with bell housing. If you need something stronger the 1990's and up Mustang trans is not much heavier than that. (Flywheel not included of course).
????? As for shifting on the fly I don't think so. I have owned a NP231 and it cannot be shifted unless stopped. I now have a 1996 an it can be put into 4whl drive on the fly but now into low range. The Planetarys I saw on the show did not appear to have clutch packs which means they must shift by internal spline. Cant shift this type on the fly. A Lenco has clutch packs and can be shifted on the fly. 
???? So what else is there. The Spitfire has a planetary overdrive that is electronically shifted that could be an option if you can find one.
???????????????????? Rick Miller

?


BTW, I watched the show on transfer cases mentioned earlier. The 
after-market doubler was really intriguing. Certainly the right concept, 
but probably too heavy and bulky for me. It might be a good solution for 
someone building on a rear drive car chassis. Smaller and lighter than a 
full blown transmission I bet. Question would be if one could shift it 
while moving.




-----Original Message-----
From: SteveS <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 8:38 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] planetary gears



Yeah, I have one of those trannys in there now.:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetviqc/id12.html

(I really hate referencing my site, since everything looks so bad - 
remember, I'm still experimenting!)

It certainly does work, but it takes up a lot room and adds a reasonable 
amount of weight. Since I probably only need two gears, it would be nice 
to find something that provided just that. Of course, as experimenters 
with finite budgets we need to compromise.

BTW, I watched the show on transfer cases mentioned earlier. The 
after-market doubler was really intriguing. Certainly the right concept, 
but probably too heavy and bulky for me. It might be a good solution for 
someone building on a rear drive car chassis. Smaller and lighter than a 
full blown transmission I bet. Question would be if one could shift it 
while moving.


Oh yeah, I finally 'made it':

http://www.evalbum.com/1643

My first EV experiment. Finally finished it up (at least as far I want 
to take it).

-SteveS



> Foster Furniture wrote:
> > Steve have you looked at the set up from any of the BMW flat twins? they
> > are shaft drive back to the wheel so output is off set and input is centered
> > facing the front,most older (cheaper) are 4speed mid 80s 5 speed some with
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Old subaru transmissions (pre 1990) have a planetary reduction gear on
the input shaft to achieve low range -- they don't have a transfer
case on the back like most 4 wheel drives. And you can shift between
high and low range at any speed, just by putting in the clutch...
putting the transmission in nuetral is good too if shifting from high
to low though, or there is a little grindy noise. Low to high doesn't
seem to require putting it in nuetral. Certainly not like the low
range on my regular 4x4 trucks... don't try shifting those unless at a
full stop.

Not sure quite how you might apply this to a motorcycle, because it's
part of a whole other transmission with three output shafts... but I
bet the actual planetary gears are pretty lightweight if you could
separate that unit from the rest. Standard ratios were 1:1 and 1.59:1
for the 5 speed transmissions, and 1:1 and 1.49:1 for the 4 speeds.
And there was also a 1.2:1 option in something, but that doesn't do
much for you.

Z



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ???? I think you are correct their weight would be high unless you wanted to spend the cash for the alum housings they would probably weigh in the 80 to 120 lb range. My TR6 trans weighs under 70 lbs with bell housing. If you need something stronger the 1990's and up Mustang trans is not much heavier than that. (Flywheel not included of course).
> > ????? As for shifting on the fly I don't think so. I have owned a NP231 and it cannot be shifted unless stopped. I now have a 1996 an it can be put into 4whl drive on the fly but now into low range. The Planetarys I saw on the show did not appear to have clutch packs which means they must shift by internal spline. Cant shift this type on the fly. A Lenco has clutch packs and can be shifted on the fly.
> > ???? So what else is there. The Spitfire has a planetary overdrive that is electronically shifted that could be an option if you can find one.
> ...


----------

