# [EVDL] Cleaning the Motor: Ground faults; OK to clean out with water nozzle?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi,
My ground fault indicator came on (circuits on www.evdl.org/lib/mh dc-dc converter/speed control/GF etc) and found a brush wire on the Warfield 9" (Netgain Impulse) motor was touching the case. Moving it fixed the immediate ground fault. But I noticed the GF light was still dimly lit and the motor read 140 ohms to ground from carbon black (only 3K miles on it so far). So I blew out the carbon with my Harbor Frieght pancake compressor nozzle around the commutator/armature/brush assemblies and it went up to 155 ohms.
Is it safe to garden hose - nozzle the motor with water? I think I did that on an ADC but don't recall as much carbon black from the brushes or low ohmic reading to ground. I wonder if that's why my Curtis 1231C spurts sometimes?
have a renewable energy day,MarkREEVA.info 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Some people do that. But just hosing it down might not do the trick.

We've had several issues with Peugeot Partner Electrique and similar cars.

The dust sticks in places where it is hard to get out without
dismantling the whole motor. I have now few motors waiting to be
cleaned out. I was thinking to open them and wash with water, soft
brush and mild soap (or something similar). Instad of cleaning them as
the customer waits I will in future just swap the motors to save time.

I wonder why Leroy Somer's people did not use lacquer on the crimped
joints inside the motor. They just pulled glassfiber tube over them
and that's it. Now the dust gets in the tube and builds ground faults.
Instead of just lighting the lamp it blows the controller.

This is a major issue and has made me look carefully which EV's I put
my fingers on. After updating to Lithium the cars get considerably
more miles annually and brush dust is all over the motor in.

-akkuJukka

http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about


2012/9/26 Mark Hanson <[email protected]>:
>
> Hi,
> My ground fault indicator came on (circuits on www.evdl.org/lib/mh dc-dc converter/speed control/GF etc) and found a brush wire on the Warfield 9" (Netgain Impulse) motor was touching the case. Moving it fixed the immediate ground fault. But I noticed the GF light was still dimly lit and the motor read 140 ohms to ground from carbon black (only 3K miles on it so far). So I blew out the carbon with my Harbor Frieght pancake compressor nozzle around the commutator/armature/brush assemblies and it went up to 155 ohms.
> Is it safe to garden hose - nozzle the motor with water? I think I did that on an ADC but don't recall as much carbon black from the brushes or low ohmic reading to ground. I wonder if that's why my Curtis 1231C spurts sometimes?
> have a renewable energy day,MarkREEVA.info
> -------------- next part --------------
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> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
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|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

After the motor is built or re-built, it is prefer to have the whole rotor =

and fields with the motor housing submerse in a tank of motor lacquer-ename=
l =

and bake.

This also covers the front of the communator down to the motor shaft up to =

the bearing surfaces. The surface of communator is than turn and micro =

mirror where the lathe markings are remove.

This complete coating of all surfaces and between the communator bars, =

prevents conductance tracking from the communator, down the front surface o=
f =

the communator and to the motor shaft.

It is best to completely coat the inside of the motor housing and front and =

rear motor covers which are call bells with several coats of high =

temperature motor enamel or epoxy compound.

My GE-11 motor back in 1976 was prepare this way. It had a filter fan =

blower mounted right on the brush cover and a exhaust grill on the rear =

bottom of the motor. The very smooth glossy inside surfaces of the motor =

allow the brush dust exhaust better than a rough surface.

This motor which was specified made with open field windings where the =

windings square Gage 5 wires was space on insulated square rods that was la=
y =

between layers of insulated sheeting. You can see through these windings =

which also allows air flow freely through them.

The ohms resistance from any motor terminal read over 20 megohms to the =

motor housing. It is recommended to test this resistance once a year. If =

it gets to below 50 k ohms, than it is time to do the cleaning.

It took about 10 years to get below the 50 k ohm reading. You can actually =

clean a motor while it is running. Back in the 50's working in the battery=
, =

motor, electrical and electronic shops, we use a dielectric motor cleaning =

solution that can either be spray right on to a running motor or a motor ca=
n =

be submersed in the tank of this chemical and also run.

If the motor had seal bearings, than the motor will be spray or submersed =

into a dielectric oil compound and ran to re-oil the bearings.

Today, there is a motor and oiling cleaning compound made by Chemtronics =

which I pick up from my local motor shop or you can also get it from some =

electronics suppliers.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Jukka J=E4rvinen" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cleaning the Motor: Ground faults; OK to clean out with =

water nozzle?


> Some people do that. But just hosing it down might not do the trick.
>
> We've had several issues with Peugeot Partner Electrique and similar cars.
>
> The dust sticks in places where it is hard to get out without
> dismantling the whole motor. I have now few motors waiting to be
> cleaned out. I was thinking to open them and wash with water, soft
> brush and mild soap (or something similar). Instad of cleaning them as
> the customer waits I will in future just swap the motors to save time.
>
> I wonder why Leroy Somer's people did not use lacquer on the crimped
> joints inside the motor. They just pulled glassfiber tube over them
> and that's it. Now the dust gets in the tube and builds ground faults.
> Instead of just lighting the lamp it blows the controller.
>
> This is a major issue and has made me look carefully which EV's I put
> my fingers on. After updating to Lithium the cars get considerably
> more miles annually and brush dust is all over the motor in.
>
> -akkuJukka
>
> http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about
>
>
> 2012/9/26 Mark Hanson <[email protected]>:
> >
> > Hi,
> > My ground fault indicator came on (circuits on www.evdl.org/lib/mh dc-d=
c =

> > converter/speed control/GF etc) and found a brush wire on the Warfield =

> > 9" (Netgain Impulse) motor was touching the case. Moving it fixed the =

> > immediate ground fault. But I noticed the GF light was still dimly lit =

> > and the motor read 140 ohms to ground from carbon black (only 3K miles =

> > on it so far). So I blew out the carbon with my Harbor Frieght pancake =

> > compressor nozzle around the commutator/armature/brush assemblies and i=
t =

> > went up to 155 ohms.
> > Is it safe to garden hose - nozzle the motor with water? I think I did =

> > that on an ADC but don't recall as much carbon black from the brushes o=
r =

> > low ohmic reading to ground. I wonder if that's why my Curtis 1231C =

> > spurts sometimes?
> > have a renewable energy day,MarkREEVA.info
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: =

> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120926/3791b804/=
attachment.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =


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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This thread is making AC induction motors look better all the time. :-\

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > This thread is making AC induction motors look better all the time. :-\
> 
> Well... yes and no. There's no doubt that eliminating brushes removes
> ...


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