# Insurance



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm coming along with my project, and got to thinking today about insurance 
prices, and how they might differ vs. my Saab.

I just had a couple questions: What kind of coverage do you have on your 
vehicle? What company do you use? How much do you pay?

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!* 
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Howdy Bart.
I'm with Allstate. They sell a "stated value
policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
worth.
It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
prove the value is correct. I keep the same 50/100
coverage or whatever we currently have. It costs me
the same or less than a regular policy. You are wise
to ask.
peace,



> --- Bart Grabman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I'm coming along with my project, and got to
> > thinking today about insurance
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's interesting. I have been with Allstate Insurance for over 25 years, 10 of which have been in Florida. I was told that they would not insure my pickup after I converted it to electric power. I paid $740 per year as an ICE with no collision coverage.

I contacted The Hartford (thru AARP) and had no problem insuring the truck. I also got custom equipment coverage for $10,000. The total with Hartford is $680. 

They get my vote, Jerry Wagner

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Bath <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jul 28, 2007 7:24 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>Howdy Bart.
> I'm with Allstate. They sell a "stated value
>policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
>cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
>DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
>worth.
>It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
>prove the value is correct. I keep the same 50/100
>coverage or whatever we currently have. It costs me
>the same or less than a regular policy. You are wise
>to ask.
>peace,
>


> >--- Bart Grabman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm coming along with my project, and got to
> >> thinking today about insurance
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It all comes down to the agent - a good agent will insure anything, any way 
you want, as long as you pay the price!I have Farmers Insurance, and my 
agent didn't bat an eyelash when I told her that the vehicle was electric.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The key issue is to make sure that they know what they are insuring. If 
they write the policy for a regular 82 Honda, then that is all they would 
owe replacement on if the don't deny a claim entirely.

Stated value policies are without a doubt the way to go. As Bob pointed 
out, Allstate offers one, and I have had a friend collect on nearly $11k in 
repairs to a Datsun 510 because he had one on it.

- Kip

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bart Grabman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 2:59 AM
Subject: Insurance


> I'm coming along with my project, and got to thinking today about 
> insurance prices, and how they might differ vs. my Saab.
>
> I just had a couple questions: What kind of coverage do you have on your 
> vehicle? What company do you use? How much do you pay?


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I checked Hartford as well as GEICO, went with GEICO for much lower 
cost.

Jerry


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

As a thought, you might want to contact a lawyer up front on that "special"
policy coverage. If you have it written up into your policy, you are
probably covered if the accident it yours. BTW, when you contact the lawyer,
make sure he'll cover you in case of an accident.

My policy covered the additions I made to my car. However, when a 17 year
old slammed into the back of it (even knocking the springs from under its
rear) I found I was the owner of a $2000 auto... despite having a rig worth
more than twice that amount. Progressive would not pay more than the car
would sell for at "average"... which meant no custom work or improvements.
Simply what a standard car would go for if it weren't updated. Oh, and
lawyers weren't interested, unless it was a case of injury. Your policy may
cover it... but they don't pay if it's some else's fault.

Make sure it's written into your policy, also. What your agent tells you and
what your policy covers is 2 different things altogether.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Bath" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: Insurance


> Howdy Bart.
> I'm with Allstate. They sell a "stated value
> policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
> cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
> DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
> worth.
> It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
> prove the value is correct. I keep the same 50/100
> coverage or whatever we currently have. It costs me
> the same or less than a regular policy. You are wise
> to ask.
> peace,


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That is why I have Hartford insurance. They paid everything, what it cost 
to replace. They paid the full cost of replacing the side glass panel in 
the door which cost $600.00 just for the glass plus about $200.00 for 
installing. A insurance adjuster did not even come out to look at it for a 
1977 El Camino.

Now here is the big one. A large gravel truck going down a road with the 
gravel spilling out because it was pile to high, splashing gravel all over 
my EV which was park. It splash the gravel over all the sides and top of 
the paint that was color sanded to 7000 grit compound.

They sent a adjusted out on this one, maybe because he wanted to see a EV. 
I call Hartford at 10.00 AM on a friday. The adjusted was at my house at 
1.00 PM. His eye balls snap out his head when I under cover the EV which is 
park in a secure building.

He then had to visit the customizing body shop that did this work to 
finalize the estimate to bring the condition the EV to the condition it was 
before it was damage.

I had witnesses that saw which company did this and Hartford contacted them 
and there adjuster came out. This guy was in a daze looking at the EV and 
left not saying much.

On Tuesday at 2.00 pm, I got a check from Hartford for repainting the whole 
car and bringing it to the same condition before it was damage, for $6890.00 
from Hartford. I call Hartford, and they said, it just in case check if the 
other party would not paid as much.

The other party paid the full amount and I sent the check back to Hartford.

About six months later, I was park at a auto parts store, and a delivery 
truck back up too far and punch a hole in my passenger side door while the 
EV was park with its tow hitch which was sticking out and not folded in. 
The door, new locks, glass, and customize power locks switches, window 
operators, and inside panel was replace and replace and painted for 
$2800.00.

Again. the Hartford sent me a check and I had to sent it back to them.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Perry" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Insurance


> As a thought, you might want to contact a lawyer up front on that 
> "special"
> policy coverage. If you have it written up into your policy, you are
> probably covered if the accident it yours. BTW, when you contact the 
> lawyer,
> make sure he'll cover you in case of an accident.
>
> My policy covered the additions I made to my car. However, when a 17 year
> old slammed into the back of it (even knocking the springs from under its
> rear) I found I was the owner of a $2000 auto... despite having a rig 
> worth
> more than twice that amount. Progressive would not pay more than the car
> would sell for at "average"... which meant no custom work or improvements.
> Simply what a standard car would go for if it weren't updated. Oh, and
> lawyers weren't interested, unless it was a case of injury. Your policy 
> may
> cover it... but they don't pay if it's some else's fault.
>
> Make sure it's written into your policy, also. What your agent tells you 
> and
> what your policy covers is 2 different things altogether.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Bath" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>
> > Howdy Bart.
> > I'm with Allstate. They sell a "stated value
> > policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
> > cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
> > DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
> > worth.
> > It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
> > prove the value is correct. I keep the same 50/100
> > coverage or whatever we currently have. It costs me
> > the same or less than a regular policy. You are wise
> > to ask.
> > peace,
>
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland, thanks for the vote of confidence in Hartford insurance. I have their home owners insurance and have had similar experience. I have have not had a claim on my truck yet.

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
>From: Roland Wiench <[email protected]>
>Sent: Jul 29, 2007 8:37 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>That is why I have Hartford insurance. They paid everything, what it cost 
>to replace. They paid the full cost of replacing the side glass panel in 
>the door which cost $600.00 just for the glass plus about $200.00 for 
>installing. A insurance adjuster did not even come out to look at it for a 
>1977 El Camino.
>
>Now here is the big one. A large gravel truck going down a road with the 
>gravel spilling out because it was pile to high, splashing gravel all over 
>my EV which was park. It splash the gravel over all the sides and top of 
>the paint that was color sanded to 7000 grit compound.
>
>They sent a adjusted out on this one, maybe because he wanted to see a EV. 
>I call Hartford at 10.00 AM on a friday. The adjusted was at my house at 
>1.00 PM. His eye balls snap out his head when I under cover the EV which is 
>park in a secure building.
>
>He then had to visit the customizing body shop that did this work to 
>finalize the estimate to bring the condition the EV to the condition it was 
>before it was damage.
>
>I had witnesses that saw which company did this and Hartford contacted them 
>and there adjuster came out. This guy was in a daze looking at the EV and 
>left not saying much.
>
>On Tuesday at 2.00 pm, I got a check from Hartford for repainting the whole 
>car and bringing it to the same condition before it was damage, for $6890.00 
>from Hartford. I call Hartford, and they said, it just in case check if the 
>other party would not paid as much.
>
>The other party paid the full amount and I sent the check back to Hartford.
>
>About six months later, I was park at a auto parts store, and a delivery 
>truck back up too far and punch a hole in my passenger side door while the 
>EV was park with its tow hitch which was sticking out and not folded in. 
>The door, new locks, glass, and customize power locks switches, window 
>operators, and inside panel was replace and replace and painted for 
>$2800.00.
>
>Again. the Hartford sent me a check and I had to sent it back to them.
>
>Roland
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Michael Perry" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:46 AM
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>
>> As a thought, you might want to contact a lawyer up front on that 
>> "special"
>> policy coverage. If you have it written up into your policy, you are
>> probably covered if the accident it yours. BTW, when you contact the 
>> lawyer,
>> make sure he'll cover you in case of an accident.
>>
>> My policy covered the additions I made to my car. However, when a 17 year
>> old slammed into the back of it (even knocking the springs from under its
>> rear) I found I was the owner of a $2000 auto... despite having a rig 
>> worth
>> more than twice that amount. Progressive would not pay more than the car
>> would sell for at "average"... which meant no custom work or improvements.
>> Simply what a standard car would go for if it weren't updated. Oh, and
>> lawyers weren't interested, unless it was a case of injury. Your policy 
>> may
>> cover it... but they don't pay if it's some else's fault.
>>
>> Make sure it's written into your policy, also. What your agent tells you 
>> and
>> what your policy covers is 2 different things altogether.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bob Bath" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: Insurance
>>
>>
>> > Howdy Bart.
>> > I'm with Allstate. They sell a "stated value
>> > policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
>> > cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
>> > DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
>> > worth.
>> > It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
>> > prove the value is correct. I keep the same 50/100
>> > coverage or whatever we currently have. It costs me
>> > the same or less than a regular policy. You are wise
>> > to ask.
>> > peace,
>>
>> 
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland: Mine did the same, when the car was simply damaged. The problem
isn't in damage to the vehicle, especially through your own insurance. The
problem came in when the car was totalled. That's (apparently) a different
process.

All they'd give is what other cars of the same type were selling for. I
looked at one of the cars he was pulling as a "like" car. It was a real
POS. <g> The only way they unbent was to say I could exchange some custom
parts *IF* I still had the originals to put back on.

Apparently that's a risk you take when updating an older car.



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > That is why I have Hartford insurance. They paid everything, what it
> > cost to replace. They paid the full cost of replacing the side glass
> > panel in the door which cost $600.00 just for the glass plus about $200.00
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

With my EV, I have a advantage. I had it re title and name it Electro. The 
sister car, another EV I have is call Transformer I and even has a different 
VIN number which was a re manufacture GM B body. These were selling for 
$52,000.00 back in 1977, but I got my for a reduce cost because it was one 
of the proto types that road tested for about 1/2 a year before I received 
it.

There is what you call proof of material lose. If a vehicle is destroy, 
just add up all the replacement cost of the equipment that is on the vehicle 
and I always got the other party who did the damage, pay the full price.

Did you know the Hartford has different classes of insurance. One is a 
antique insurance, another is a classic car insurance, another is for a 
vehicle driven under 1500 miles a year, and one where you have a group 
insurance for several cars which is driven only by one person at a time. So 
its like one insurance coverage instead of insuring each car.

Also it will cover any other car I drive, even you car if I damage it. This 
is the type I have.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Insurance


> Roland: Mine did the same, when the car was simply damaged. The problem
> isn't in damage to the vehicle, especially through your own insurance. The
> problem came in when the car was totalled. That's (apparently) a different
> process.
>
> All they'd give is what other cars of the same type were selling for. I
> looked at one of the cars he was pulling as a "like" car. It was a real
> POS. <g> The only way they unbent was to say I could exchange some custom
> parts *IF* I still had the originals to put back on.
>
> Apparently that's a risk you take when updating an older car.
>
>


> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > > That is why I have Hartford insurance. They paid everything, what it
> > > cost to replace. They paid the full cost of replacing the side glass
> > > panel in the door which cost $600.00 just for the glass plus about
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:30:28 -0600
>
>With my EV, I have a advantage. I had it re title and name it Electro. 
>The
>sister car, another EV I have is call Transformer I and even has a 
>different
>VIN number which was a re manufacture GM B body. These were selling for
>$52,000.00 back in 1977, but I got my for a reduce cost because it was one
>of the proto types that road tested for about 1/2 a year before I received
>it.

Ohhh, that car salesman layed a doosy on you Roland. You find me the people 
that spent $52K in 1977 for those other electric cars  I hate to be the 
one to give you the bad news, but the silver tounged salesman only made it 
seem like a bargain...

damon

_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Didn't Marty Robbins have one of those? I remember a photo of him in a mid-to-late 70's GM A body 2 door with the quarter windows filled in, and a caption explaining it was an electric car.


David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)



> ---- damon henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> >From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When I said reduce price, it was at $9500.00. It actual cost the company in 
making only six proto types of this one model about $43,500.00 each. This 
is the cost of special design motor controllers sub contracted to the 
Cableform company which cost them about $6000.00 each. The traction motor 
was subcontracted to GE which includes a motor coupler and adapter plate to 
fit any GM transmission and motor mounts on the side, that accepts GM engine 
mounts. Which cost over $5000.00 to them. The batteries 300 AH cobalt cells 
cost about $100.00 each which comes to $3000.00.

Should I go on?

The heat sinks for the controllers are machine tool aluminum plates that are 
2 inches thick and about 2 square feet, which are use in a press pack for 
the triacs. These cost about $2000.00 to make, because I contacted the 
CableForm company for a spare part kits that cost $3500.00.

The battery boxes which are about 4-feet square with covers are made out of 
1/4 inch thick aluminum plates, which was all welded together by the 
Creative Industrial Company in Detroit which is a customizer of vehicles.

They also extended the front of the car 12 inches and form a new front end 
for the vehicle. They also did the custom dash which holds instrument hinge 
plates for the instruments.

The battery charger is 100 amp rated that can be plug into 2 or 3 phase 250 
volts delta, 208 volt 2 or 3 phase and 120 volt single phase. At my home I 
could only use the 250/125 volts single phase at maximum of 50 amps.

All the mechanical, transmissions, suspension, axles were all modified. 
Special tires by Good Year with the correct tire deflection, and maximum 
load at PSE was use.

I know exactly what I was paying for, because I did the research on the 
products use in this vehicle. I won award the car on a bid of $9600.00 over 
other people that bid at $25,000.00. This company knew my work, and knew I 
could maintain this vehicle for the last 32 years.

I had a brother that work in the GM Plants and Managers Systems. This is 
the normal bid for the first hand built proto types which they may make a 
run of about 80 cars for testing. I had a chance to bid on a Ford GT-40 
which cost $18,000 in 1960. It went for $8000.00 after it was race by the 
Ford racing team and today it is worth over $1,000.000.00.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: Insurance


> >From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: Insurance
> >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:30:28 -0600
> >
> >With my EV, I have a advantage. I had it re title and name it Electro.
> >The
> >sister car, another EV I have is call Transformer I and even has a
> >different
> >VIN number which was a re manufacture GM B body. These were selling for
> >$52,000.00 back in 1977, but I got my for a reduce cost because it was 
> >one
> >of the proto types that road tested for about 1/2 a year before I 
> >received
> >it.
>
> Ohhh, that car salesman layed a doosy on you Roland. You find me the 
> people
> that spent $52K in 1977 for those other electric cars  I hate to be 
> the
> one to give you the bad news, but the silver tounged salesman only made it
> seem like a bargain...
>
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://liveearth.msn.com
>
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There was only six persons that received this model vehicle which included 
me. I was the only technician out of the group that was able to maintain 
this vehicle. There was one actor that got one which is store away in his 
collections and one person in London and of course one by the owner at the 
Electric Fuel Propulsion Company at that time.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Wilker" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Insurance


> Didn't Marty Robbins have one of those? I remember a photo of him in a 
> mid-to-late 70's GM A body 2 door with the quarter windows filled in, and 
> a caption explaining it was an electric car.
>
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
>


> > ---- damon henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I forgot where this thread started.

But when my Ford Escort EV was "totaled" GEICO would only give me 
$1200 for it. It's an '86 so obviously a small dent would be worth 
more damage then the value of the car.

I told the claims adjuster the car was worth more then $1200 with all 
the EV parts. So he asked me to send "for sale" information on 
similar conversions. I went to Mike Chancey's site and found a few 
electric Ford Escorts for sale. All of them were selling for over 
$5000 so I sent them that info and GEICO changed the claim and sent 
me a check for $2500.

I thought that was a fair compromise. And with the money I bought a 
clean door from the junkyard and had a body shop repair the dent in 
the rear quarter panel and repaint the whole car. The rocker panel 
was fine so the frame wasn't damaged. It was pretty much the 
passenger door and rear quarter panel that was damaged.

So I'm pretty satisfied with GEICO with handling the EV.

Chip




> Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> 
> > From: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
> > Date: July 31, 2007 7:34:05 PM EDT
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

that's good new for geico, i have them for my
motorcycle. there was no choice for electric, but i
did choose: new motor, modified frame, extra parts
[controller, batteries, contractor, etc..]

however progressive is a whole new animal, i started
with progressive over 20 years ago in ohio and even
with a professional drivers license [ambulance, school
bus] and a several safety driving classes [military
and civilian] plus a perfect driving record they would
not insure my bike. i asked why they said it is not
their policy i asked again i got no reply.




> --- Chip Gribben <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I forgot where this thread started.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I had a sit-down talk with my insurance agent yesterday...

State Farm currently insures my '87 VW Cabriolet under a "standard" 
collision + comprehensive policy. I tried getting a stated value policy, 
but the underwriters refused. I explained my concern that if I'm in an 
accident I'll only get reimbursed for the Kelley Blue Book value of an '87 
Cabriolet - which isn't much 

I was told that my policy covers me for any damage/accidents that *I* 
cause. But if someone else is at fault, it will be *their* insurance 
company that will try to settle for the Blue Book value. This would be the 
case no matter what type of policy I had. I was given an "I'll look into 
it further" before leaving the office.

A few hours later I was told that my policy is a "cash value" policy - it 
covers any equipment permanently bolted to the car as long as I have proof 
of its actual value. If my car is damaged by another driver, State Farm 
will write me a check and sue the other driver's insurance company to 
recover damages. Sweet!

The only glitch would be if my car is totalled. In that case, the 
insurance company generally KEEPS THE CAR, and much paperwork is involved 
to recover damages equal to the car's actual value.

The important point here is: KEEP RECEIPTS FOR YOUR EV PARTS!!! Your 
insurance agent will be happy to keep copies of them for you. If you don't 
have them it will be nearly impossible get a decent insurance settlement 
if someone else is at fault.

FWIW - Adrian


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>The only glitch would be if my car is totalled. In that case, the 
>insurance company generally KEEPS THE CAR, and much paperwork is involved 
>to recover damages equal to the car's actual value.

Or, you can buy the wreck back from them (I think they wanted $200 when my '91 Cabriolet was totaled) and keep anything valuable. If you plan on building another, similar, EV and the EV parts weren't damaged in the accident, it could be a good option.


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