# ZookEV



## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Check out my suzuki samurai on the rubicon trail. I'm have been in the off road community and always wanted to build a electric rock crawler. So I have been building this for a while. It is a mild off-roader as my goal is to keep it street legal. I notice that there isn't very many 4wd electric cars on this site. Check out my YouTube videos and let me know what you guys think. 


https://youtu.be/5MCLsFbKb3M

https://youtu.be/dRoxI0c7ki4

Thanks


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Nice. It's kinda weird not hearing any noise from your rig, though.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

dedlast said:


> Nice. It's kinda weird not hearing any noise from your rig, though.


Yea it is weird to hear all the things we usually don't hear.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Really nice! Thanks to share and if you can, please share some details with pictures about the build (motor, battery, etc.)


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Here is a walk thru of the vehicle.

https://youtu.be/4K08556KtAg


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

As for the four wheel drive train, it has lockers in both axles, a 4 to 1 transfercase, differential guards, nerf bars for rocker panel protection, spring over axle swap to lift it 5 or 6 inches. I also have a abs belly pan for the engine compartment.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

This is how it started.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

This is the motor and Canev adapter with lightened flywheel and clutch. I fabbed up a motor mount to use stock rubber mounts. I also have a neck to add a fan if needed.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Mounted the controller on the firewall on a aluminum plate.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I made the cables with this crimper made in China but worked great. I think I got if for 60 bucks on eBay.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Made my temporary racks for my test batteries out of steel.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Batteries in place in engine compartment. They are U.S. battery 12vxc. 155ah.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Batteries in the rear of car.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Regen pedal.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Being that I have such low gearing when off road, the regen pedal was way to responsive and would either lock up all four wheels or put me through the windshield. So I used A switch to disconnect the regen pedal and activate the a 0-5k pot that is activated by activation at the throttle up. So now I can adjust amount of engine braking based on the gear I am in and how steep it is.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Here is the pic of the brake controller.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Plug in...


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Completed engine compartment with Audi vacuum pump, elcon charger...


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I had to change frames due to paper work problems.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Painted in sections


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Second section


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Done painting. A little rough but first time with gravity feed guy. I hated it!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Changed the title to electric!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Now I'm testing the thing off and on the road. I want to make sure I like its performance before I spring for lithium. Pretty happy so far and would like to lose some of the 700lbs of batteries!


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## Dustin_mud (May 22, 2012)

Very cool, I been working on my plans to build a full tube buggy ev crawler. How long are you getting on a charge off-road?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Dustin_mud said:


> Very cool, I been working on my plans to build a full tube buggy ev crawler. How long are you getting on a charge off-road?


I average about 10-20amps while rockcrawling. On 93ah/c1 rated batteries. About 5-6 hours. With a big lithium pack should last all day!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I keep track of my battery with a Clean Power SOC meter.


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## Dustin_mud (May 22, 2012)

That is great to hear, good job.


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## Dustin_mud (May 22, 2012)

The two of my biggest decisions is, ac worth it and my gearing? I want to gear it like I would ice on 37s but not sure I need that much or more.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

You absolutely need AC. I can't imagine wheeling without engine braking. It gives you the same control as going up hill. I am using a 4 to 1 t case and stock 3.73 ring and pinions which gives me a 70:1 overal crawl ratio. I run about 115 to 1 on my ICE samurai. I also notice that I use less amps at a higher rpm so a little lower gears are good, but I don't need as much as the gas rig.


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## Dustin_mud (May 22, 2012)

Have you thought about running a idol? That way you can just let the clutch out in low and let it crawl.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

What I have found is that most of the time while wheeling, I drive with my left foot on the brake since I rarely need the clutch. Almost like an automatic. Plus it saves energy. I have no need for an idle. Some use it for air conditioning or power steering.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

This is a little vid on my adjustable regen.

https://youtu.be/_x9NewjCJ1k


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

New batteries next!


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## Dustin_mud (May 22, 2012)

Volt pack?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes sir! excited to see the improvement.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

That will change everything. Well done!
Have fun and share video and pics.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm really anxious to see how much better it will be than the lead/acid! I'll keep you posted.


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## twright (Aug 20, 2013)

You will love it. In my 2000 Ford Escort, I switched from 15 8 volt lead acid batteries to 44 100 AH Lithium Iron Phosphate cells.

The car is 700 lbs lighter!

Acceleration, range and top speed are all tremendously improved. It turned my Science Project into a nice daily driver.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

twright said:


> You will love it. In my 2000 Ford Escort, I switched from 15 8 volt lead acid batteries to 44 100 AH Lithium Iron Phosphate cells.
> 
> The car is 700 lbs lighter!
> 
> Acceleration, range and top speed are all tremendously improved. It turned my Science Project into a nice daily driver.


Funny, I just got back from my first ride with the Volt pack. I did 15 miles a lot at highway speeds. I cannot believe the improvement. Almost no voltage sag, feels like twice the power and acceleration. I got the ev grin today. I am so stoked. I would drive more but I dropped my charger at Elcon this morning...


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Oh, I got this today. It's been a good day.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

A video to show the high speed power of the zook with the Chevy volt batteries going up hill. Sorry about the beginning with me moving my phone around...


https://youtu.be/bSMDjmtw5DY


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Figured a way to fit 8kwh in the back and keep the back seat!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Had to put a cooler on the controller. It would start to reduce power after 20 miles or so here in the mountains and hills.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Pic 2 to show the back


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Now it doesn't get over 90f. I put a light behind it so it would show the openings.


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## Samuraishaun (Jun 30, 2015)

This thing gets cooler all the time. What is the expected life of these Volt battery packs? Is it number of uses or number of years that is most important?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I think some guys on the board might have more details on battery life, but I would say it's the number of cycles that age the battery. I hear a decade?

I needed to put a fan on my motor... Seems to work good.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Here is an update on the electric samurai!

https://youtu.be/NmO6UOnjpWA


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I am using an android table to replace my instrument cluster on the ZookEV the electric samurai. It uses blue tooth to connect to my Clean Power meter using the Torque Pro OBD2 App!


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

*Off road build questions*

Hello, I have a goal of building an Offroad 4x4 ev.

I have some questions about motor torque and RPM.

Basically, in your opinion for off-road use, is it better to have a motor with higher torque whose knee drops off at a lower RPM or a slightly lower torque motor with higher rpm?

I see that you are using an 1238-7501 with your AC31, what is the upper voltage limit for a full pack with this controller? Where does your torque start dropping off, and how, if at all does this effect the way that you drive obstacles?

How is your amp draw when you are going up hill, what kind of gearing do you use when you are going up obstacles? I've watched the videos that you have posted and really find myself wanting to see more of what the little truck can do.

I am considering using a rear driveline disconnect, though, this is pretty far down the priority list on my conversion. I wonder if this is a feature which would be useful on the highway (though, it is not Why I want one.) in regards to essentially turning the truck into a front wheel drive vehicle while the disconnect is on.

How do you feel about the torque of the motor vs the ICE that was originally in the suzuki and how does the torque knee relate to driving the zookev on the highway?

With regards to regen when going downhill, I presume that with the right gearing your motor doesn't know that you are "only" creeping down the hill at a few mph rather than slamming on your brakes going down hill fast? I am unsure so I would appreciate input? 

I saw your earlier comments about range with the lead pack.

What would you say your range with the volt pack is off-road?

With higher gearing, can you run the motor at a lower duty cycle and still crawl effectively?

I am still on the fence between the HPEVS AC50 or AC51, and am planning around the marine version, otherwise it would have been the AC76 for me, without contest.

The appeal of both a longer duty cycle for the motor and having hot oil in need of cooling attracts my interest. I know the general idea in conversions is that you cannot heat your vehicle with motor heat, but 100-170C oil looking for a place to become colder seems like a vehicle cab wanting to be warmer..

Unfortunately I have found it difficult to find a review on the new marine HPEVS motors, or maybe no one who has used them is talking about them?

I am looking forward to hearing from your perspective on off-road ev use. Thank you for building a BEV off-road vehicle for me to know that I wasn't crazy in trying to do myself.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

The motor is too efficient for there to be sufficient heat available to heat your cabin in a worthwhile manner.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

You may well be correct. 

If the motor is only shedding 10% of the energy into it as heat, I suppose that it's continuous heat output should be less than 1,500 watts. As well as at higher output levels of upwards of 5kw in heat.

But at least it shouldn't be that hard to dissipate this small amount of heat either.

I realize that the dual motor isn't a good comparison to a single motor, but I am waiting on HPEVS for that data.

Still, 130C oil seems warm to my way of thinking.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Wow thats alot... ill do my best.
Basically, in your opinion for off-road use, is it better to have a motor with higher torque whose knee drops off at a lower RPM or a slightly lower torque motor with higher rpm?
I like the lower RPM higher torque.
I see that you are using an 1238-7501 with your AC31, what is the upper voltage limit for a full pack with this controller? Where does your torque start dropping off, and how, if at all does this effect the way that you drive obstacles?
I am using a 1238-6501. It has a max of 104.5V and was running it that high with lead acid, but now I am at 96 nom. with a 99 max. I dont have a tach but I will estimate it starts dropping ogg at 3200 RPM based on the fact that I have a gas Samurai with same gears and tires. I like rock crawling so i am running low RPM most of the time. I have a 4:1 transfercase that helps reduce the load on the engine.
How is your amp draw when you are going up hill, what kind of gearing do you use when you are going up obstacles? I've watched the videos that you have posted and really find myself wanting to see more of what the little truck can do.
For hills I have a video on my Youtube channel of it going up hill on 7 and 8% grades at 60MPH floored in 5th gear drawing the max 550 amps. On the rocks, in low range, the motor doesnt work hard or even get warm. im probably only drawing 25-30 amps crawling around up near vertical rocks.
I am considering using a rear driveline disconnect, though, this is pretty far down the priority list on my conversion. I wonder if this is a feature which would be useful on the highway (though, it is not Why I want one.) in regards to essentially turning the truck into a front wheel drive vehicle while the disconnect is on.
There is a vendor that makes a rear disconnect for the samurai. I use one on my gas samurai. It is only useful off road and when you tow it. I cant find a purpose to use it on road! but the main reaspon it isnt usefull on the road is, most 4WD vehicles are designed to have the transfercase in the optimal angle for the rear drive shaft. Add a lift and the front is way out of alignment without major front axle modifications.
How do you feel about the torque of the motor vs the ICE that was originally in the suzuki and how does the torque knee relate to driving the zookev on the highway?
The samurai engine is a very high RPM motor that produces mid 60s horsepower and torque. Based on the meter, I am putting out over 50 kW at peak which is 75 horsepower and crazy amount of torque. I have bent transfercase mounts and my rear axle from the power. I have had to reinforce alot of parts under it.
With regards to regen when going downhill, I presume that with the right gearing your motor doesn't know that you are "only" creeping down the hill at a few mph rather than slamming on your brakes going down hill fast? I am unsure so I would appreciate input? 
I have a video on my regen braking. I have regen braking on the pedal, but it was too much off road with the compounding effect of the low gears. So I set it up with an adjustable regen that activates when the gas pedal is released. Kinda like an adjustable compression brake on a diesel.
What would you say your range with the volt pack is off-road?
About 40 on highway 60 in neighborhood. all day off road crawling.

With higher gearing, can you run the motor at a lower duty cycle and still crawl effectively?
at real low rpms it draws more amps thans spinning it up alittle
I am still on the fence between the HPEVS AC50 or AC51, and am planning around the marine version, otherwise it would have been the AC76 for me, without contest.
I think I have what is called the C face because of the cooling air is pulled from the output shaft in the bell housing. I wanted this because i can duct the air in the starter hole and run a fan and filter so it doesnt eat the dust on the dirt roads. 

I am looking forward to hearing from your perspective on off-road ev use. Thank you for building a BEV off-road vehicle for me to know that I wasn't crazy in trying to do myself. 
Thanks let me know if you have more questions!


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you for the response! 

I am sorry that my posts are often TL;DR, I have too many words and no one else on my frequency. 

I have watched the videos on YouTube, the regen/engine braking one made me think of trying a thumb potentiometer throttle on one of the steering wheel spokes. Though, it may be that this is not a good idea in practice.

I know this about low RPM electric motor use, to be more clear, I mean: "low duty cycle" =whatever the motor you are using, being run at the continuous power output speed and torque. The 1hr rating. 
I suppose I should have stated it as 1 Hr rating rather than low duty cycle.

In off-road, my current vehicle is a 2013 2dr rubicon, my previous jeep was an 09 4dr wrangler X(which I lost in a winter related traffic accident). Which makes me appreciate low gears and lockers. 

The difference that lockers, 4-1 low transfer case and more torque make; I cannot stress enough. I can go anywhere which I used to struggle to get to in my previous jeep with an ease that can only be beneficial to the long term mechanical health of my current jeep.

Which brings me to my current project. 

When I started out I was planning a 71 bronco as my base, but the easier path now seems a late 80's Toyota pickup. I know that Toyota trucks can do quite well on the trails I would ply, as several members of my off-road club own trail toys.

It's annoying to talk to people about this purpose built ev that I am planning, when the usual questions have little to do with the realities that I am planning towards.

The few people IRL who can understand what I am saying without my having to do a whole back story on ev range considerations, simply can't comprehend Why I would go to the time and trouble of building a 4x4 EV which I know from the start is not going to be as efficient as a small aerodynamic car.

I Know electric cars are possible. I've seen it done. I could Buy one if this was my only concern.

90% of my day on any given trail(on a Fairbanks Off Road Lions outing) is spent sitting around idling my jeep on the trail wondering why we aren't moving. Talking on the radio bucket brigade only to find out that someone is stuck on a minor obstacle. Once they are unstuck, the whole line can start moving again.

My point is that in my ICE jeep, this is wasted gas. I know that "DIY series hybrids" are a dirty phrase on this board, but in the case of the duty cycle involved, charging my battery pack while I am waiting for the line to start moving again is far less a waste of gas than the alternative, even with the inefficiency of conversions. 

As an example of what I mean, Fairbanks Creek trail generally takes about 4-5 hours to escort the March of Dimes rally through. But about 45 minutes to turn around at the end of the trail and return to town and get back to where the food and charity stuff is held. 

My reasoning for AC is all the downhill. My reasoning for continuous duty cycles are low low gearing and slow crawling up hills. (Oil cooled just makes sense with my limited understanding of what may be involved, I have overheated my ICE on the trail.) My reasoning for electric is mainly so that I can feel like my club is actually Treading Lightly; as well as the novelty of trying new things. I want to Know what it is like to have instant torque instead of having to rev up.

For the most part, my fellow members are conscientious of trail rules. But when we cat herd during the MoD rally, the general public seems to feel they aren't getting their $ worth if they aren't destroying the trail.

I am interested to see if my goals are too ambitious, I don't necessarily need to be able to run the entire Fairbanks Creek Trail, we are building an ORV park (in Fairbanks, Ak) now.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Copy, with the gearing and very low amp draw, it will climb all day long... It really only gets hot on long hills at highway speeds and hard regeneration braking.

I agree, but ironically there hasn't been much interest on this forum. The hard core wheeling sites have been very interested in this project. I don't think most on this forum understand the wheeling thing at all.

I plan to run the whole rubicon trail this summer. And yes I will have a generator.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

I am curious which wheeling sites you are on? 

In my capacity as one of the admins on the Fairbanks Offroad Lions Facebook page I have shared at least one of your YouTube videos where your samurai is silently squeaking down the trail with the occasional buzz of what I presume to be the vacuum pump.

Also, I share the video in many places where the hydrocarbon traditionalists are fighting the BEV enthusiasts in the comment threads. I feel that we are more likely to attract 4x4ers to the idea of instant torque, than we are to attract the environmentally motivated to off-roading. 

My thoughts on a generator are propane, at least 5kw, but preferably a 7kw so that it can push at least 6kw into a charger. If I get 15-30 minute charge opportunities, the Fairbanks Creek trail is more likely a possibility. Mostly it depends on my budget and my Craigslist/eBay patience.

The trail has a lot of long hill climbs, which are complemented by long regen opportunities. Hence my main concern about motor cooling.

If I don't have enough battery space to store the potential energy, would using water heaters be an adequate resistive load to dump power into? (Like how trains dump the regen energy into heat)

In my opinion, the closest that this forum has to off-road acceptance is in the non road going section. Which seems to be mostly tractors, atvs and go karts. There is nothing at all wrong with this, the enthusiasts here have produced a bounty of useful information.

I am grateful that this site and its knowledge exists. I've learned more here than anywhere else on conversions. I guess 4x4 BEV is simply in its infancy.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

This might be a little OT but I first found ecomodder.com and then this site when somebody considered hypermilling Toyota J80 at ih8mud  Few years later I have small and efficient EV instead of Landcruiser, but one day I'll hit the trail again with converted lightweight 4WD (maybe a Sidekick). 
Nice rig, keep it rollin' and have fun!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

akseminole said:


> I am curious which wheeling sites you are on?
> 
> In my capacity as one of the admins on the Fairbanks Offroad Lions Facebook page I have shared at least one of your YouTube videos where your samurai is silently squeaking down the trail with the occasional buzz of what I presume to be the vacuum pump.
> 
> ...


The controller is programmable to prevent over charging. Or just install my set up and turn it to zero and use the regular brakes rather than trying to dissipate the surplus energy. Besides, after a few miles there is very little chance of over charging the batteries.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

I had an idea, it may be utterly absurd. Especially for battery life?

I wonder what kind of torque a 1238-4801 (24-36v 800amp, 355amp continuous) would produce in an ac51? I realize the rpm would drop off at like 1,000 rpm, so I suppose it would be of limited value even off-road. 

Idk. 

Aside from the possible absurdity of this idea. (Which could only be suitable for slow going.) I wonder how you could wire two controllers to one motor? (Only one controller on at a time.)

In my day dream, each controller would be on its own contactor/battery pack (low voltage controller tied to the accessory position on the key switch?), but idk if this is enough isolation to prevent problems for the other controller even if it is off? It seems like pulling one set of cables off one controller to bolt on the other would be tedious to do on the trail.

My only thought here is amps = torque and this is the highest amp AC Curtis controller that I've found. 

Anyway, thoughts?


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

On a somewhat related note, for my original project (71 bronco) I procured an NP435e transmission with the intention of wiring in a forward/reverse switch so that I could use the reverse gear as a forward granny gear. 

In the np435e, the forward "granny" gear is 6.68, where the reverse gear is 8.26. In calculating final drive ratios that extra 1.58 adds a little extra "something" to low range.

Even though I've changed project vehicles, it seems that reverse gear is usually lower than first gear, and so, for an off road themed build, it still seems worthwhile to try.

What is your opinion of this? Do you think that it would be worthwhile, have you tried it in your own build?

I know that the AC motor controller can be made to treat reverse the same as forward or reduce reverse speed/torque etc in programming. Which is where my thinking on this subject stems from. 

For me, it seems like a waste to have a slightly lower gear that simply isn't used in ICE vehicles because their engines will only spin one way. 

I know there may be practical considerations regarding spinning the reverse gear backwards. 
Idk if it will have oiling issues or any number of other issues that come from being run backwards, for instance.

Which is why I am bringing it up to a fellow off road enthusiast with actual hands on experience with motors. If it is already an avenue which you have explored and found lacking, it is still a worthwhile question for me to ask. 
If you haven't, then it's something else to try.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

z_power said:


> This might be a little OT but I first found ecomodder.com and then this site when somebody considered hypermilling Toyota J80 at ih8mud  Few years later I have small and efficient EV instead of Landcruiser, but one day I'll hit the trail again with converted lightweight 4WD (maybe a Sidekick).
> Nice rig, keep it rollin' and have fun!


Thanks! I also have a sidekick with no motor, but I chose the samurai because of the solid axle is all ready there and it's 400 lbs lighter.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

akseminole said:


> On a somewhat related note, for my original project (71 bronco) I procured an NP435e transmission with the intention of wiring in a forward/reverse switch so that I could use the reverse gear as a forward granny gear.
> 
> In the np435e, the forward "granny" gear is 6.68, where the reverse gear is 8.26. In calculating final drive ratios that extra 1.58 adds a little extra "something" to low range.
> 
> ...


Yes I can reverse the motor. And in my case and with most Japanese transmissions, first gear is usually lower than reverse. I just never wired it... I may in the future.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Put some mud terrain tires on. Can't tell it my range is affected...


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Built a new bumper with LEDs


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

Excellent work. One more toy to add to my wishlist. Maybe oneday we can make a motor with quick adaptors so you can have multiple chassis (sports car,commuter, rock clawler etc) and just "plug" the motor and controller module into which ever chassis you want at the time. I already know its possible for the batteries. Anyhow, nicely done and enjoy the beast.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks! 

Hmmm modular cars


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

Yeah a bit like those cordless tool packs where you swap the batteries from one tool to the next. But instead you are swapping the whole drive train. Mount a motor to a front wheel drive gearbox. Have the batteries and controller mounted above that. Then mount the entire assembly on a couple of heavy duty brackets that attach to some standard points on your chassis rails. The wires for your gauges, switches and throttle could all run through some standard plugs. 

You could swap between fwd daily commuter to mid mount sports to rock crawler all in a bit more than an hour work.


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## mines4x4 (Oct 3, 2012)

So, how is this thing doing with the mud terrains and the Volt batteries? I ventured over from Pirate but haven't seen you around either site for a while. Starting to do my homework on an AC51 in a TJ. You sir, are my motivation.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm on vacation, I will post more details in the future. But in summary I've lost over 5% range with the mud terrain tires.


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## evforme? (Jul 23, 2015)

Cool project, 5% seems worth it. 

I have this loose idea of building a 4x4 from a couple highlander 50kw rear motor generator diffs on a light frame with a flat deck and forward cab setup on top sort of like the old mighty FC concept truck. 

I'm years from getting anywhere and it's good to see someone has started getting 4x4's some EV love.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Headed to the Rubicon trail today. I hope to have some more data, pics, and videos!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Here's some videos!

https://youtu.be/JmSObjD0IHQ

https://youtu.be/WrJLvUX4S04


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

The car did better than I thought it would. I travelled 9 miles that took all day. Used about 8kWh. Once I hit pavement the low tire pressure really took its toll on my range. Normally with full pressure about 350wh/mile; low tire pressure it was over 500wh/ mile. 

I believe I'm the first to do the rubicon trail all electric!. It was a busy weekend and many people wanted to learn more. I think I changed many people's lives that day. People never thought that they would see a electric car on such a hard core trail!


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

That's awesome! Nicely done, sir.

Rob


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks! I am even more excited about it now. I'm now willing to spend some time to put a on a better suspension and get a winch and bumper on it!


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Nice! I still think it's hilarious - you drive by and all you hear is, "creak, creak, scuff, creak." The other guys drive by and all you hear is, "Brrrm, brrm, brrm." And then there's the guy with the stereo...

B


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Yea, I was with 3 good friends that I have been wheeling with for 20 years. The funny thing is they all commented that they liked following my electric because there is no exhaust smell.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Made a winch bumper, it just needs some grinding and paint!


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

Looks good!

I have had an idea which is probably more complicated than necessary rolling around in the back of my mind. 

Using a motor controller to run a winch. With say a 48v pack. Idk. 
Like I said, probably more complicated than necessary. 

Anyway, nice bumper!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Bumper is done, Warn winch is in.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

akseminole said:


> Looks good!
> 
> I have had an idea which is probably more complicated than necessary rolling around in the back of my mind.
> 
> ...


Yea this winch is 180 to 1 gear ratio. That would be hard to get it geared that low...


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm confused..

What does the gear ratio of the winch have to do with running it from a 48v motor controller and 48v pack rather than straight from a 12v battery?

I'm pretty sure the only thing going for my idea is the ability to use something like a headway battery pack dedicated to the winch while using the controller to boost the current at the 12v speed range. Possibly using it at a higher spool in rate?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Yea me too. I was thinking that it would need a different motor and be adapted to the internal transmission and brake system. And it would have to be the same size to fit in the bumpers. I don't see a practical benefit... but maybe I missed your point.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

I am approaching the idea of running a 12v winch motor on a higher voltage pack the same way that others run 48v forklift motors on 96 or 144v packs.

I don't see the need to change the motor.

As I said, the only real utility of the idea would be the ability to draw lower currents from the battery pack at the 12v motor speed and potentially run the motor faster as a way to increase the winching speed. 

At 12v the winch motor pulls somewhere between 300-500 amps (depending on the particular winch model), so from a 48v pack this current spike might be reduced for the batteries going through a motor controller while the motor would still see the full current output.

From my perspective, it's simply a matter of going easy on the auxiliary battery and the DC/DC. Also, with a separate winch battery pack it would be no drain on your traction pack. 

Anyway, these are my reasonings to myself to try the idea.


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## LeadfootSRT (Dec 10, 2015)

https://youtu.be/rXndrYdMduM
People have been using 24 volt on winces for a while.
48 volts would spool pretty fast.Almost dangerously fast.
In the comments there explanations on what they use and what's available for the ICE users.

Been lurking and learning as much as I can. Back to my cave... Already blowing up Brooks FB with questions. Lol


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Wow that pretty cool... really fast! Maybe too fast.


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## LeadfootSRT (Dec 10, 2015)

Right? Mentions in the comments that it's way too fast with no load. 

Pretty cool way to pull a light vehicle trough some sludge though with a way to switch back and forth from 12-24v.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

This is the Why of using the motor controller as the power supply for the winch rather than straight from a 48v battery. 
Because with the motor controller you can modulate the output more effectively than "on/off". 

Although I think speed control may be more effective than torque control in this application, I'm not sure what type of series motor controller would be cheap enough while being able to use speed rather than torque control in the high enough amp range.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Very interesting... I guess I never thought there was an option or need to change the performance of a winch.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

I just reread this thread but have come up empty handed, have you implemented a BMS with your Volt cells or are you running without a BMS?

Your Volt 4 kWh modules are wired in parallel? Have you had any issues with this so far?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

akseminole said:


> I just reread this thread but have come up empty handed, have you implemented a BMS with your Volt cells or are you running without a BMS?
> 
> Your Volt 4 kWh modules are wired in parallel? Have you had any issues with this so far?


Yes they are wired in parallel. No, I am not using a bms. Been watching them and haven't needed them. Several of us been running without it on the chevy volt batteries. My biggest issue is I have to watch my minimum voltage. I charge relatively slow, and with the packs in parallel and the group of 3 cells in parallel, I think it helps balance to them.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

What is your minimum voltage with the 4 kWh pack?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

72 volts is the minimum.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Tipover
72v is a bit low - I keep my pack above 3.5v = 84v for two 2kwhr modules


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I've been running the batteries from 4.15 volt down to 3volts. According to my computer that's the voltage span to get the rated amp/hrs out of the battery. Been running this way for almost 2 years. There is a group of us all doing the same.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Tipover said:


> I've been running the batteries from 4.15 volt down to 3volts. According to my computer that's the voltage span to get the rated amp/hrs out of the battery. .......


 And does your computer tell you what voltage span to use to get the best cycle life out of the battery ?


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes nothing below 4.0. Haha... no that's what I was told to run them from the seller. And based on the the rated capacity of the battery and amount used, it appears to be correct.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I got to get the lock rite locker out of it. They work fine on my gas rock crawler samurai, but not on the electric on the highway. It seems to bind of a lot if there is any power going to the tire no mater how slight, it pops super bad. It also does it while braking since I use the motor for regeneration braking. Obviously it's super Bad in turns while braking. I believe it is due to the smooth power of the electric motor has no power ripples to give it a chance to ratchet.

So going to try an air locker.


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

Tipover said:


> I got to get the lock rite locker out of it. They work fine on my gas rock crawler samurai, but not on the electric on the highway. It seems to bind of a lot if there is any power going to the tire no mater how slight, it pops super bad. It also does it while braking since I use the motor for regeneration braking. Obviously it's super Bad in turns while braking. I believe it is due to the smooth power of the electric motor has no power ripples to give it a chance to ratchet.
> 
> 
> 
> So going to try an air locker.




Tipover,

As I told you months back on Facebook, I am looking into a YJ swap for my electric Samurai. Following that I was planning on looking into an Elocker, similar to the set up that the new 4Runner/Tacoma has. In terms of a winch, I doubt I'll ever use one. You're a lot ore hardcore than I am off-road. [emoji23]

I'm currently in the process of trying to upgrade to a Nissan Leaf battery pack.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Danny keep me posted on the leaf batteries!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Great time with great friends at the 50th Sierra Trek. Didn't know they had a car show at the event, I was encouraged to enter and won Best of Show! They all loved the electric samurai. We had a great weekend!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Pic #2 trophy for proof!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

https://youtu.be/Xj4yRWbUF6c


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Got another youtube video of my Barrett Lake trip...

https://youtu.be/yiW9F_kYPlY


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Awesome project. My HPEVS AC51 and controller just arrived yesterday , Im about to install in my 1973 LandRover Series3 Lightweight, 

I was wondering about front motor mounts & now have it figured after seeing your install, and the cooling , great idea , filtered positive pressure to keep the dust out . Im going to steal that one - thanks !!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Cool, I’m glad I could help. Do you have a build thread on it?


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Tipover said:


> Cool, I’m glad I could help. Do you have a build thread on it?


Pulled out the ICE yesterday so I think I better start a build thread now.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/landrover-lightweight-ev-conversion-189274.html

Tipover, Im looking at your forced air cooler to implement (copy  ) into my build , I was thinking that's going to blow clutch friction material dust through your motor , I got to stop thinking ICE , the clutch is going to be used so rarely it wont produce any dust !!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I bought a electric water heater from electric car parts just in time for
winter, and it works great!


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I have a YouTube video showing the build of the Zookev.

https://youtu.be/dMmHW-rWR5s


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## 67EJeepster (Nov 7, 2017)

Very cool build, thanks for sharing. I have a 1967 Jeepster Commando I am planning on converting in a similar fashion to yours. I have a couple questions if you don't mind.

1. Do you know how much the samurai weighs? 

2. If this were a daily driver, what aspects would you change?

3. What is your comfortable highway cruising speed, and would you make any changes to the drive-train if you were to plan on using it for more highway duty than crawling?

4. Have you looked into the equinox electric steering box conversion?


I am planning on an AC motor with a T-15 3 speed (because I have a T-15 and they are plenty strong), and whatever salvage Li battery packs I can find. I am not sure if I'll be able to get by with an AC51's power numbers as the Jeepster comes in around 3,000lbs. I have 3.73 gears in the axle and 31's so the final drive isn't necessarily that low. I could probably sustain 65 mph on the highway fine, and it is a 67 Jeep so it's not like I want to go much faster than that anyways.


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Hey Jeepster, your post just appeared in my notifications.

Im probably qualified to answer as Ive just converted my 1600Kg (3500lb) LandRover with an AC51 

3.37 is way too high , I have 4.7 diffs & a further 1.148 High range, giving a final drive in top gear of 5.4 

With 650-16 tyres The motor is doing 4380RPM at 70mph , this is close to the motors sweet spot , but at 70MPH the motor is really pulling high amps, about 450 A , this cant be sustained if you want good range, due to bad aerodynamics , bad rolling resistance and geartrain drag.

You wan as LOW diff gears as possible. (higher number) 

Mine is a daily driver and I love it 

What would I change, I'd use a Netgain Hyper9 instead of an AC51 , as it fully sealed (better in 4x4 , no water / dust / mud ingress) more power , more torque & lower cost.

not that much different to a jeep.

www.goingbush.com/ptev.html


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## 67EJeepster (Nov 7, 2017)

goingbush said:


> Hey Jeepster, your post just appeared in my notifications.
> 
> Im probably qualified to answer as Ive just converted my 1600Kg (3500lb) LandRover with an AC51
> 
> ...


I actually just finished reading your build thread. You are definitely qualified to answer! Thank you for your input. It does make sense to have lower gear ratios in the axles now that I think of it. I was mainly thinking that with the majority of the torque available at very low rpms I would be able to over come the taller ratio at lower speeds and once at higher speeds benefit from the taller ratio(lower rpms). But I am seeing that the logic is that higher RPM at cruising speed is OK because of lower amp pull especially considering the vehicle is not going to see high speeds.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

67EJeepster said:


> Very cool build, thanks for sharing. I have a 1967 Jeepster Commando I am planning on converting in a similar fashion to yours. I have a couple questions if you don't mind.
> 
> 1. Do you know how much the samurai weighs?
> 
> ...


I was going to suggest you talk to goingbush as his may be closer to your plans. But I will answer what I can. 

Mine weighs 2400 lbs.

It goes pretty well on the road, but if I drove it daily I would have a bigger battery pack. Actually I am going to I’m the near future.

The samurai transfer case has a reduction in high range. Stock is 1.408:1 and my 4 to 1 has a high of 1.58:1. My diffs are stick 3.73. It is perfect for me both off road and on. On the flats I do 60 comfortably. I’m at 96volts. But for comparison when I had 104 volts I could do 70+ easy on the flats. I currently have 31” tires also. I would think you will need lower gears but think the 51 will be fine for you. Also when I went from bald all terains to muds, I lost about 10-15% in range.

I had plans to power steering but decided I did not need it. I modified the the transfer case to be able to have 2wd and 4wd low range. I just pop it out and it steers easily. Besides I really don’t have the room under the hood.

Let me know if you have any more questions.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Here is a little video to show the slow speed control that I have.

https://youtu.be/4Fs5AhvdrK8


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Thats amazing. I doubt I'd have the torque for that , not that I can try because I have open diffs .
Im building a truetrac for the rear , but still no tree climber.


https://youtu.be/Scv2z6u-S0w


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

I got a 4 to 1 t-case that helps...


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## Olphart (May 25, 2017)

Wow! Glad I found this thread. What a cool project.


I was just out of high school when my brother and I drove my '87 Samurai down to Moab for the Jeep Safari that year - it was the first time a Samurai registered and ran the event. Every year after that we had more and more Samurai friends. It's all changed now, but it's good to see you pioneering with your EV version!


Just watched all your videos. Thank you!


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