# 4wd direct drive components



## richie_b (Apr 13, 2013)

Hello community.
I am richie from germany and i want to buil a fast four wheel drive car.
Where do i start now?o.k., the advantages of an EV i dont have to tell you.No more driving the engine warm-cold, no exhaust needed e.t.c....But the most importend point i think in direct drive is no transmission is needed.
I drive a turbo charged 91 civic 3dr.Its nice, but its front wheel drive (less tracktion at start).
I also drive a 4WD civic, its also nice, but no power.
I know u few guys who drive turbocharged 4WD civic's and most of them get problems with the transmission, even on front wheel drive civic's (and also other cars)
Since 2006 I am working on a 4WD civic, I build in a Transmission from a Honda CR-V, stronger than the civic Transmission and an VTEC motor (more power) fits on that transmission.
Because i lost my garage in 2010 the project stopt but now i have the opportunity to go on whit it.
In the early 2013 in the german honda board someone posted a honda crx del sol EV conversion.No feedback from the germans but i find it interesting so i started to do some research.
I found "RIMAC" and was amased what is possible.
I go on with reading and searching and found the "delta e4 coupe" which uses the YASA Motors 750 Motor as a direct drive solution.
Than I think why not put that driveline in a 4WD civic.
Now I am looking for how to start.I hope u can give me some helpfull information and answers.
First i hope u can tell me how fast a car with four YASA 750 Motors direct drive with 195/45R15 tire dimension go from 0 to maybe 5 or 10 km/h mp/h.I mean how long does it take from the moment i push the "gas pedal" to the moment the car goes noticeable fast in motion.
I hope you know what i mean .
If i look at the torque diagramm of the YASA 750 it looks like in direkt drive the car will first go fast over 10 mp/h.
The other critical point i see is to get the 4 single motors synchronized.I dont know which components are needed.Are there controllers which i can programming for this application or do i need some extra main controller?
The third problem is "TÜV", that is the "german technical validate association", every modification on a car have to be checked by an official TÜV member and i have to show the technical estimate for every part i change.that means before i can start whith a conversation i have to check if every component is able to pass the test.Otherwise i cant drive the car legal on the street.
I asked nearly the same questions in a german technical board but the discussion drifted away to a "makes EV sense thread".
There is unfortunately no board with the focus on EV's in german language.
So i hope u can help me to get a decision if i go for a conversion to an EV or go the "normal" way and make it turbocharged with lots of problems with transmissions and differentials...
If it turns to an EV than you can be for the high jump of a looong story...

p.s. the only electrical engine i build in my honda since yet is a second switchable 220A (3KW!) alternator from audi, here is a short movie  :


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello Richie. The owner of Rimac is a forum member, Crodriver. Look up his threads! 
His vehicle you saw online is a very high end design. 

To help us help you, can you give us some goals please. What range do you want (how far before empty),how fast maximum? How fast average (autobahn or town driving) and how quickly do you want to go fast (0-100kmh)? How much are you planning to spend? 

Some simple answers, unless you use a simpler DC motor, each motor will need it's own controller. Then each will do an equivalent amount of work. Look up a thread "Mira inboard electric motors" for how you would best mount the Yasa motors. I would recommend a setup like Rimac with 2 motors only and a differential at each axle. I am planning a 4wd conversion like this usually modest Azure motor and transaxle in my Rav4 so have thought about this alot. I considered keeping the standard 4wd transmission with a big electric motor but for weight and space it is impractical and more complicated. There is a very good thread on the forum about a rav4, search (electric rav4) using a DC motor. 

For TUV approval we'll need to help you but there are many options, they just tend to cost alot if you don't want the work of having it approved yourself. I've just forgotten the name of an EU company who make a similar drivetrain to Rimac that you can purchase but I Wil post it when I remember again. 

Let us know the objectives above and we will all chip in with some helpful (hopefully) information. 

Welcome by the way.


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## richie_b (Apr 13, 2013)

Hi tylerwatts, thx for this objectiv answere.


1.Range:min. 50 Km, but it will be higher couse of the need of high power at short time (1/4 mile race)
2.maximum speed is secondary, 200 km/h, more would be nice.(at 3000 rpm direct drive with the 750HV Motor top speed would be 326 Km/h)
3.0-100 km/h time, fast as possible  , a 4,0 second time or less would be great.Hope for a quater mile time below 10 seconds.
4.Money, i know i have to spend a lot, around 30 till 40 thousands.But I only have to pay for the parts, the work an the car i can do my self.I'm electrician and mechanic...
5.It should be a car for dayli driving to work with the option to drive quater mile.
Mountig the motors and stuff like that is not easy but makeable.
Making a turbocharged 10 second gasoline car would be very expensive to.
I have time.Good thinks need time and the time work for EV's.

The "Mira" threat i read completely yesterday, very interesting, waiting for testdrive.The other threads i will read thees days.


tylerwatts said:


> EU company who make a similar drivetrain to Rimac that you can purchase but I Wil post it when I remember again.


This would be very interesting!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Brusa electric drives. Their products can out 200kw at each axle which would be more than enough I imagine.


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## richie_b (Apr 13, 2013)

They have nice products with good features (parking brake) but i Think 148 kg for one axel, two motor + two transmission, is a bit heavy weight.
One yasa 750 is about 27 kg x 4 = 108 kg, vs. 296 kg brusa.
Today i wrote an e-mail to sevcon controllers, they have a german branch and to YASA Motors.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

108 is without controllers and you require 4 plus their liquid cooling and if you want good handling, as you said, you require 4 wheel traction control which means another computer controlling the 4 controllers and that complexity will need to be custom made. Not cheap. You will need a big budget to have enough battery power for your performance goal so need to be sensible with drives and even 2 high power Brusa drives will cost too much, where 4 Yasa drives will probably exceed your budget before you start. 

Additionally 2 axles are far easier to control than the 4 motors. I do not want to tell you know, just sharing reality. 4 yasa motors with the correct traction control will perform better than anything I believe, but at significant cost! 

Only my opinion, and please bare in mind I'm struggling to afford to start my build so am very conscious of value for money performance. You are not wrong in any way however.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm sure the Brusa motors easily meet your performance with the wide power band and reduction gearbox. I'll work out the numbers when I get the chance.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Also Richie, read Crodriver's thread on his car and the performance calculations he does as you will need similar performance from batteries to meet your goals. Happy reading, be back soon with numbers.


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