# How to convert heater?



## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

I tried searching for it but i guess i'm bad at searching..

In preparation for the complete EV conversion i'd like to start with getting rid of the old heater system in my car and convert this to an electrical heater.
So i can take out the heater core but i have to fit something else to heat up the car.

I looked at little household electrical heaters but non of them seems to work on 12v.
Whats a good/the best solution for this?


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi, 

First where are you located ?(how cold can get there ?)

Nobody is using 12V for heating, the traction pack it's used for heating.

I recommend you to keep the original heating core and use an electric water heating system if you realy want heat in your car.

If you want a "warmer" you can use an electric 1500W ceramic element but you have to use an additional contactor rated for DC because the original relay is rated for AC and will weld in ON position if used with DC.

What is your traction pack voltage ?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Eric said:


> In preparation for the complete EV conversion i'd like to start with getting rid of the old heater system in my car and convert this to an electrical heater.
> So i can take out the heater core but i have to fit something else to heat up the car.


The two normal approaches are to heat water and pump that through the original heater core and to replace the original heater core with ceramic elements from a small space heater. The ceramic heater will be almost instant heat. Heating water will take a little longer to get warmed up but requires only hoses connected under the hood while the ceramic element replacement will require you pull the heater core out. If you live in a reasonable climate where it does not get below freezing often then you can probably get by with a single 1500 watt element. If it gets cold or you have a large space to heat you may need more watts.

There have been quite a few episodes of EVTV that talk about heaters. You might take a look at what they have tried and have work and their failures where you can often learn even more.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You might consider a small propane heater, especially for warming up the cabin first thing after a cold night. You will need to be careful to provide ventilation if the cabin is tightly sealed, and/or install an oxygen monitor and Carbon Monoxide alarm. If you have liquid cooling for either the motor or controller it might be used for heating after driving for awhile.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-COLEMAN...-HEATER-FOR-OUT-INDOORS-5033-700/271260508767
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Coleman...e-Heater-Indoor-Outdoor-Heaters-/200907722876

You can also get electrically heated clothing and seat pads that are more efficient than heating the cabin air. And for defrosting, a heat gun may be very effective.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

I've seen 12V used for interior heating. Lots of small ceramic elements put in parallel. Amp draw is something like 100A for 1200W heating power. It works but demands a lot from your 12V battery and charging system (DC/DC most likely). Worked better than original as original didn't have any proper heating. But I strongly suggest using traction pack as power source if planning on electric heating.

You can always put in more than one 1500W ceramic element. I have four and it gives lots of heat. I use them in pairs and two elements is enough until below zero. Elements are rated for 120V or 220V operating voltage. Small space heaters seem really cheap. Gut and rewire them.


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Thaks for the reply's, i live in the Netherlands so it wont be that cold but if it freezes in winter and i dont want to sit in my car wit two pants and three jackets and gloves.

I never thought about using the traction pack for power...

Dont want to use liquid heat, i want all fluids gone from the car. I am not scrade of taking out the dash and replacing heater cores, i have done that in lots of cars before for various reasons.
Never heard of EVTV before but i will do a search for it.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Im using 12V for interior heating without the use of a DC/DC.

12V 130Ah LiFePo4 battery, which powers both the EHPS and a BMW PTC heater. Automotive PTC heaters do not overheat by two methods, first is the PTC element will decrease power input till it reaches a status quo, second it is electronically limited. For approx Eur 25,- you can pry it out of modern cars on scrap yards. (Diesels often have this aux heater as an addition to the conventional heater.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Eric said:


> Dont want to use liquid heat, i want all fluids gone from the car. I am not scrade of taking out the dash and replacing heater cores, i have done that in lots of cars before for various reasons.
> Never heard of EVTV before but i will do a search for it.


I am with you on the topic of elimination of unnecessary fluids. It looks like I may have to put in a cooling loop for my motor controller if I start casually racing the car. I certainly don't need it for my regular commute.

Gav did a show where he showed installing a ceramic heater element into the car's heater core using high temperature silicone caulk. Gav's heater video

EVTV is a weekly show of between 2 and 3 hours in length about DIY car conversions. They tape video segments throughout the week and tape the show on Friday afternoon. Jack edits it together on Saturday and usually uploads it on Sunday. They have been doing this for 4 or 5 years now. In the last year they started the EVTV store where you can buy some of the stuff that they have found that works. There is now a European branch of the EVTV store in Amsterdam. Jack did not want to do a store but was kind of forced into it by viewers who have been burned by thieves taking their money and not delivering product. Jack also has a weekly blog that generally talks about events covered on the show. They also host the Electric Vehicle Conversion Convention (EVCCON) which just had its third year. I haven't heard an official count but I think it was about 150 people this year and about 30 cars. This is an international gathering where about 1/3 of the participants make their way from all over the world.

http://www.evtv.me/


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

I have seen that video before, that video is the reason why i bought a few household electric heaters and took them apart to see if i could use them. 
I came across the EVTV Amsterdam website before, found EVTV on youtube, i have a lot of catching up..

Learning new stuff on here every day


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Eric said:


> I have seen that video before, that video is the reason why i bought a few household electric heaters and took them apart to see if i could use them


Gav's videos are not EVTV. Sorry if I gave that impression. It was just another source of information that occurred to me.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Here is an example of mounting two ceramic heaters in place of the original heater core:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=203777&postcount=599


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Thats looking great, exactly what i was planning to do but i couldnt figure out how to power them, never thought about the traction pack..


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## Rustybkts (Sep 27, 2009)

I have two EV's and am using ceramic heater matrixes in both.

They come out of cheap room heaters but always ensure they are the ptc (positive temperature coefficient) type as they self compensate and reduce current at optimum temperature so are pretty safe to have under the dash.

My Elise uses a single one but I use two in my Vortex. 

They are designed for around 220v but seem fine on my 320v pack voltage.

I actually had so much heat from the two that I wired them in series to reduce it and use a variable on/off timer for temperature control.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Anyone know if the 120v ceramic space heater will operate safely at 200v? Currently running at 165v and it's fine but I am needing more pack V since changing motors.


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## The_Sasquatch (Feb 11, 2018)

The ceramic element is effectively a resistor. If it is going to fail, it will fail because the materials gets to hot. If you increase the airflow across the element proportionally to the increase in power, I would think it should be ok. Definitely test it on the bench first!


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## tomrjames (Jun 3, 2021)

Hi, I have a question regarding running heating off the traction battery pack at HV levels - approx 400V. isnt there a safety issue having that voltage level in the cabin even if it is where the old heater matrix used to be? i didnt think you could have HV inside the cabin in the UK? it all needed to be behind the bulkhead?
I am doing a conversion at the moment and want to use a ceramic heater type rather than hot water into the existing matrix and am struggling to find it at 12V.
what have others done please?


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

tomrjames said:


> Hi, I have a question regarding running heating off the traction battery pack at HV levels - approx 400V. isnt there a safety issue having that voltage level in the cabin even if it is where the old heater matrix used to be? i didnt think you could have HV inside the cabin in the UK? it all needed to be behind the bulkhead?
> I am doing a conversion at the moment and want to use a ceramic heater type rather than hot water into the existing matrix and am struggling to find it at 12V.
> what have others done please?


It seems that there shouldn't be a problem with HV in the cabin since that's the design that Nissan uses with the Leaf. Their cabin heater elements are incorporated into the HVAC assembly that completely located on the inside of the cab. 

When I finally get there, my intention is to replace the water based heater core with the Leaf elements. I have no real idea how difficult that will be, but I don't think it will be the biggest challenge I will have faced. I hope...

Bill


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