# [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi John,

>From the other thread, you mentioned that you need to do 25miles to
work. But your initial request is for a 150 mile EV.

Unless one has very deep pockets, I would say that hobbiest EVs are
purpose-built vehicles. The better you understand and define your
requirements, the easier it will be to start and complete the project.

For example, I wanted my EV to do 15 miles to work, on the highway, in
Canadian winters. I knew I could charge at work, but also knew that I
had to be able to return home (if my kids get sick at the daycare,
etc) without charging at work. So I targeted something that would
provide 30miles highway until a 90%DOD (depth of discharge) when the
batteries are both a year old and cold. I made sure I had enough
power to get on the highway and stay with the traffic (Montrealers are
rather aggressive drivers, to say the least).

It will be important for you to reflect on your requirements; post
them to the list, and see what you get from there.

To get you started, you've stated:
- 25 highway miles twice a day
- 10k - 15k budget

Some questions to complete that:
- Can you charge at work? For how long?
- How far do you need to go when not commuting, 150miles?
- Do you need a particular car type: truck, compact sedan, two-seater?

Cheers,

-Nick

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Mine is coming in at about $20K, not counting labor.

Glider 2001 Audi A4 $2K after selling ICE.
20 KW Lithium battery pack with BMS and charger $11K
Warp 11 motor $3K
Zilla controller $3K
Vacuum pump, PS pump, contactors, fuses etc. $1K

I hope to get 60 miles range to 80% DOD.

Now if I was going to range, I would have went with a smaller motor 
and controller and put more money into lithium. 150 mile range is 
probably going to take over 40kWh of lithium. At current pricing that 
is going to put you near 20K just for the battery.



> John Garbarini wrote:
> 
> > How about 20K?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John Garbarini wrote:
> > How about 20K?
> 
> Zeke is right. The cheapest way to go that I can see is about 45
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In the world of lead acid vehicles anytime you can equal the weight of the vehicle in lead you should have around a 150 mile range. So a 1500 pound vehicle carrying 1500 pounds of lead. Another tac to take is having really, really fast charging. That might be a less expensive way to go. It might be better to have a 60 mile range car that handled well with a one hour charge time rather than a 150 mile range vehicle with a 3 or 4 hour charge time. A mini truck with 40 Golf cart batteries has been done and has over 100 mile range. (see Red Beastie in the ev photo album) It takes a lot of doing but can be done for under 15k. Lawrence Rhodes....

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >>> Do you already have an EV that has some lesser range, and you are
> >>> trying to increase its range? Or, are you looking to buy or
> >>> build an EV that can go 150 miles on a charge?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John Garbarini wrote:
> > 150 miles would be the max miles I would go in a day, although the
> > average daily use would be closer to 100 miles per day. 1/2 highway ,
> > up to 55 mph, and 1/2 suburbs, at 25 mph.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Can you plug in at work?



> John Garbarini wrote:
> 
> > What would be the capacity of the gas tank?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John Garbarini <[email protected]> wrote:
> > There's gotta be a way to do this....
> 
> It's possible but difficult.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From: Jack Murray <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on
my EV?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 12:03 AM

Use Exides Tudor 300 ah cells at a voltage at 320 volts using a AC drive 
either from MetricMind, ElectroAuto or CanEV using a supercapacitor bank.

A overall drive ratio of 20:1 at 2400 rpm running 30 inch diameter high 
pressure tires at 65PSI on a dead level grades at a maximum speed of 10 mph 
without stopping.

A EV here in Montana has all this, but the batteries are US 8 volt's at 181 
AH and the gear ratio was from 4.0:1 to 12.0:1. Did there first test run at 
speeds of 25 to 60 mph on grades up to 8 percent which allow them to regen 
down grades.

At a ambient temperature of 20 degrees, they did a 78 mile run without 
charging the main battery pack which discharge the battery pack to about 20% 
SOC.

Back in 76 when my battery pack was new, which was 180 volt lead cobalt 300 
AH cells in a EV that weigh 7850 lbs. Travel up a 7 to 8 percent grade hill 
every day for 10 years at 60 mph at 600 motor amps and about 260 battery 
amps. The maximum range during these hill climbs and regen down hill was 
about 40 miles to 50% SOC.

The range was also about 40 miles to 50% SOC at city driving making 22 full 
stops at which about 10 stops were on up hill grades all at speeds of 0 to 
35 mph.

It was estimated that if this EV was driven at 10 mph on level grades no 
wind, tires to 65 psi, the range would be 101 miles at 50% SOC and 150 miles 
at 20% SOC.

Losing the weight from 7850 lbs to 6860 lbs which resulted in a lower AH 
battery pack using 6 volts, did not increase the range. I still was able 
run the maximum city run at 39.5 miles at 50% SOC. My next pack will be 520 
lbs less or a EV weight of 6360 lbs using 150 AH battery pack with a 
supercapacitor.

Roland

Roland 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If I remember right, the question had to do with getting 150 mile range with
an electric vehicle. It's easy to get 150 mile range with a gas or diesel
engine . Then it turns into how to get the best mileage - and that's not a
topic for this loop. Search for "hypermiling" - you'll find lots of info on
that.
Phil Marino



> John Garbarini <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > What would be the capacity of the gas tank?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, if that's the case, you only nee a 50 -75 mile range. What am I 
missing?



> John Garbarini wrote:
> 
> > Oh, yes, Rick- at work for 6 -8 hours/day. I work in a medical
> > clinic, where I'm on call all day, so I don't have to touch my cay
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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Cg==


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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bi9saXN0aW5mby9ldgoK


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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biBvcHRpb25zOiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuc2pzdS5lZHUvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9ldgoK


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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OiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuc2pzdS5lZHUvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9ldgoK


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> And btw, this MiEV isn't an actual product for sale from what I found,
> right? and claims usually mean nothing until Consumer Reports tests them..
It's apparently been approved for sale in Australia (Passed all the ADRs),
even through Mitsubishi apparently has no 'official' plans to market it
here.

And for some out-of-the-box thinking, instead of requiring a 100-150 mile
EV, have you considered moving closer to work? 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> There's gotta be a way to do this....

You can't fight Physics. 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Theres also been some test drives by some in "the know":
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1106
http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=99

Matt 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 April 2009 12:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?

> And btw, this MiEV isn't an actual product for sale from what I found, 
> right? and claims usually mean nothing until Consumer Reports tests them..
It's apparently been approved for sale in Australia (Passed all the ADRs),
even through Mitsubishi apparently has no 'official' plans to market it
here.

And for some out-of-the-box thinking, instead of requiring a 100-150 mile
EV, have you considered moving closer to work? 

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--
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12:00 AM


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Do you guys read the posts!!!!????? It has already been done, with the Red 
Beastie! So it is doable!!! Small pickup, beefed up suspension, 40 GC 
batteries in buddy-pairs. I don't remember the controller used, probably a 
T-Rex (now Alltrax) 120V, probably a ADC 9", and use a PFC-50 from Manzanita 
Micro for charger. I think John used a bad boy charger from 220V when he 
charged at my house one time.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?


> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26 AM, John Garbarini <[email protected]> 


> > wrote:
> >> There's gotta be a way to do this....
> >
> > It's possible but difficult.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 15 Apr 2009 at 8:27, John Garbarini wrote:
> 
> > What is the best car, in your opinion, to use to convert to an EV?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You're unlikely to get any sort of uniform answer to that question....
personally, I think that a two door coupe or hatchback kind of like
the Honda Insight would be the best. I know alot of people think that
was way too small though. Wagons are nice too. Sedans are useless,
IMO. But obviously, a 4 door sedan is what many people would want and
it's what GM is going after with the Volt, and Mitsubishi with the
iMiEV. I would also be seriously turned off it was made by an
American manufacturer. But lots of people like American cars too....
see what I mean. There's not going to be agreement on what the BEST
EV is. My conversion is a pickup... because I happen to like that
particular pickup truck, and it's alot easier to convert than a
passenger car (batteries outside the passenger compartment by
default), even though a small hatchback would be a better EV, in my
eyes.

Z




> John Garbarini <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What is the best car, in your opinion, to use to convert to an EV?
> > Suppose I wanted to become a new-age Henry Ford, and make a big load of "standard EV cars." Which car would be easiest to convert and then market?
> > I live in a wealthy area of northern NJ.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> >


> > > John Garbarini wrote:
> > >> What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my
> > EV?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jukka J=E4rvinen believes that the Toyota Corolla is the best choice. =

He is working on designing a drop in replacement based on the AC24LS =

and LiFePO4 batteries. His concept is that any Corolla can be =

converted in a day. He has a website, but I can't seem to find it :^(




> John Garbarini wrote:
> 
> > What is the best car, in your opinion, to use to convert to an EV?
> > Suppose I wanted to become a new-age Henry Ford, and make a big load =
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rick Randazzo wrote:
> >
> > Shipping is going to be $.17 per Ah and
> > there is just no way around this . Customs and broker fees are the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tim Humphrey wrote:
> 
> > Rick Randazzo wrote:
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Yes, and is anyone willing to bet that the price of gas won't be at
> least double $2.24 in ten years?

/Peak Oiler

There's an argument that Peak Oil will cause a more-or-less predictable
increase in the price of Fossil Fuels, but the emerging opinion is that
Peak Oil will cause extreme oscillations in prices. Basically, We're in a
deep Recession right now. If Oil prices rise to US$60+ they'll kill the
economy again, causing a crash in Demand, lowering Oil Prices. Low Prices
will stimulate the economy, oil Prices will rise, economy crashes, rinse
and repeat. What many expect is a series of quick boom-bust cycles, as an
improving economy comes up against reducing Oil affordability. A
'staircase', if you will, where the peak of each boom never quite reaches
the previous peak. And all the while, Oil production reduces through
underinvestment and natural Field Decline.
Which is why we should electrify everything (electricity doesn't care what
it's generated from). Alan Drakes' 'Electrification of America' plan is
as good a place as any to start.

/Peak Oiler

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John Garbarini wrote:
> > Zeke- You're right; I want to go for the car most people would want
> > to buy. And you're right, also, that GM/Ford are NOT going to lead us
> > through the "new frontier." That's why I now believe a conversion co.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John Garbarini wrote:
> > Casey has struck out, not me
> 
> John, I apologize if it sounded like I was criticizing you. I was trying
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> >John Garbarini wrote:
> >> Zeke- You're right; I want to go for the car most people would want
> >> to buy. And you're right, also, that GM/Ford are NOT going to lead us
> >> through the "new frontier." That's why I now believe a conversion co.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>> If you do an EV conversion, you're swinging with two strikes
>> against you. The range will be half of what a purpose-built EV
>> could do. That's not a fatal blow, but it will seriously reduce the
>> potential number of customers.



> Thor Johnson wrote:
> > Why half the range? Aero on trucks and SUV's tend to be bad, but I
> > would think that a Civic / MR2 / Porsche / BMW wouldn't be too bad...
> > I would think that a low-rolling-resistance tire, and an efficient
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Great post Lee.

So, it begs the question, does anybody know of the best kit car to EV
conversion ? (tube frame, single or 2 seater, meant for track racing etc...)
I have yet to start my EV (just bought a house with my first garage ! 
very pleased) but when I do I want to take the lightest route without having
to build from scratch, I simply don't have the knowledge to design something
from the ground up, but I can build/modify a kit.

Its got me thinking, the best kit car I can think of is one thats based on
the Lotus 7 layout (theres a bunch of variations, can't think of the names)
You can buy plans and fab away yourself, is there anyone considering selling
just plans for kit EV's like this ? (I know of 1 diesel electric three
wheeler, again the name escapes me.)
I'd be much more likely to attempt 'from scratch' if I was following
somebody elses plans for an ultralight EV....

Dave
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think its mostly a matter of personal taste. I like this one:

http://www.evalbum.com/2363



> Dave Hymers wrote:
> 
> > Great post Lee.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave Hymers wrote:
> > Great post Lee. So, it begs the question, does anybody know of the
> > best kit car to EV conversion? (tube frame, single or 2 seater, meant
> > for track racing etc...)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Are Kit Cars exempt from Fed Safety rules like Airbags?
(I'm not in favor of them, just thinking that they
are sort of hard to get past if you're not exempt.
A friend was in an accident; the air bag saved her
life but mauled her arm. a 5-point harness might
have hurt her less).

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack Murray wrote:
> > http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1135192578.html
> > a small light aerodynamic car you can buy this afternoon...
> > can you make it lighter and more aerodynamic, yes.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> > Are Kit Cars exempt from Fed Safety rules like Airbags?
> 
> Yes. Air bags are not required on kit cars.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>$8000 for a car with 155,000 miles on it? Seems pretty high!

Its all relative.
Advertise something like that here in Australia at that price, and you might
get more than that in cash from the crowd having a bidding war on your
doorstep 
Honda insights go for around US$10k over here, pretty much irrelevant of how
many km they've done (almost none were bought when they were made)

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, 28 April 2009 2:33 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?



> Jack Murray wrote:
> > http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1135192578.html
> > a small light aerodynamic car you can buy this afternoon...
> > can you make it lighter and more aerodynamic, yes.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You can only put 360 pounds in a 1st gen Insight before you hit GVWR -- 2 adult males of healthy weight will do it. It would be tough to get very many pounds of batteries in it and stay within GVWR. One of Lee's points is a scratch built vehicle can be designed from the ground up to safely hold alot of battery weight.




________________________________
From: Jack Murray <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:39:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?

OK, I spent all of 60 seconds finding that one, now I spent 5 minutes on it, here is one with 55k miles and is only 7600. But you miss the point. How can you build a car from scratch for less than gets TWICE the range than using one of these to start with? 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1142541149.html



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here is somebody trying to convert a LoCost (a super seven clone) to an EV,
I'm pretty sure thats what I want to do....

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/possible-locost-7-project-10795.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack Murray wrote:
> > OK, I spent all of 60 seconds finding that one, now I spent 5 minutes
> > on it, here is one with 55k miles and is only $7600.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Alright, maybe an electric 7 is out of my league ....

http://www.electric7.com/construction.html

Looks great though.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

McSorely.net - awesome. looking through it right now.
Despite there being a wealth of info, building your own chassis seems like a
scary and daunting task to me....

http://kww.autobloggreen.com/2006/07/27/the-131-mpg-caterham-seven/ <- my
initial inspiration for
looking into 'sevens'
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hymers <[email protected]>

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:04:02 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?


Great post Lee.

So, it begs the question, does anybody know of the best kit car to EV
conversion ? (tube frame, single or 2 seater, meant for track racing etc...)
I have yet to start my EV (just bought a house with my first garage ! 
very pleased) but when I do I want to take the lightest route without having
to build from scratch, I simply don't have the knowledge to design something
from the ground up, but I can build/modify a kit.

Its got me thinking, the best kit car I can think of is one thats based on
the Lotus 7 layout (theres a bunch of variations, can't think of the names)
You can buy plans and fab away yourself, is there anyone considering selling
just plans for kit EV's like this ? (I know of 1 diesel electric three
wheeler, again the name escapes me.)
I'd be much more likely to attempt 'from scratch' if I was following
somebody elses plans for an ultralight EV....

Dave
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

google search "speedster"

Stub
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hymers <[email protected]>

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:04:02 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?


Great post Lee.

So, it begs the question, does anybody know of the best kit car to EV
conversion ? (tube frame, single or 2 seater, meant for track racing etc...)
I have yet to start my EV (just bought a house with my first garage ! 
very pleased) but when I do I want to take the lightest route without having
to build from scratch, I simply don't have the knowledge to design something
from the ground up, but I can build/modify a kit.

Its got me thinking, the best kit car I can think of is one thats based on
the Lotus 7 layout (theres a bunch of variations, can't think of the names)
You can buy plans and fab away yourself, is there anyone considering selling
just plans for kit EV's like this ? (I know of 1 diesel electric three
wheeler, again the name escapes me.)
I'd be much more likely to attempt 'from scratch' if I was following
somebody elses plans for an ultralight EV....

Dave
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack Murray wrote:
> > I make this argument all the time, a tiny ICE car is not designed to
> > hold a lot of batteries, but most here seem to ignore GVW, and then
> > have three additional passengers? forget it!
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> You can only put 360 pounds in a 1st gen Insight before you hit GVWR -- 2 adult males of healthy weight will do it. It would be tough to get very many pounds of batteries in it and stay within GVWR. One of Lee's points is a scratch built vehicle can be designed from the ground up to safely hold alot of battery weight.
> 

Yeah, I heard that when I went and tried to buy one, they kept using it
to try and upsell me to a hybrid accord. (They finally annoyed me so
much i walked off)

Later I talked to a friend who is a mechanic and now manager of a honda
service for 25+ years, Part of the low max GVW was the fact that by
lowering the weight they could make the mileage claims higher.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> You can only put 360 pounds in a 1st gen Insight before you hit GVWR -- 2 adult males of healthy weight will do it. It would be tough to get very many pounds of batteries in it and stay within GVWR. One of Lee's points is a scratch built vehicle can be designed from the ground up to safely hold alot of battery weight.

I have planned for a long time to someday convert an insight.
I want to find one with a blown ice and then get 3 more electric motors froma wrecking yard and replace the 3 cylinders-have a 4 rotor insight! It might be overkill, too much torque off the line, but to have good passing aceleration, it may be perfect.

Now can we stack and sync the stock controller? or just replace the whole thing.

Obviously Lithium, maybe lithium Polymer.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> >> You can only put 360 pounds in a 1st gen Insight before you hit
> >> GVWR -- 2 adult males of healthy weight will do it. It would be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why not use the 4 Insight battery packs? Sounds like it would be a great project.




________________________________
From: Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:43:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?

I have planned for a long time to someday convert an insight.
I want to find one with a blown ice and then get 3 more electric motors froma wrecking yard and replace the 3 cylinders-have a 4 rotor insight! It might be overkill, too much torque off the line, but to have good passing aceleration, it may be perfect.

Now can we stack and sync the stock controller? or just replace the whole thing.

Obviously Lithium, maybe lithium Polymer.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >> It's not that bad at all. Go get yourself a mig box and a good auto
> >> dark helmet, get someone to give you a few hours of instruction (or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Personally I like this one:

http://www.factoryfive.com/gtmhome.html

Kit cars aren't necessarily designed for lightweight or aerodynamic 
efficiency either, though.

--Rick

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > If you get a kit car designed for racing, the benefit can be huge. For
> > instance, the GTM http://www.factoryfive.com . Let's look at some weights:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's one... Most modern cars are pretty heavy.




________________________________
From: Phil Marino <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:50:24 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?



> David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:
> ...
> > You'd be hard pressed to find a modern car you could get down to that
> > stripped weight.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jack Murray" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:30 PM
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?

>
> Yep, what value is having a kit car designed for an ICE then used for an 
> EV different than conversion of an existing ICE car?
> Lee's point is that if you design an EV from scratch you can do better.
> So what makes a good EV that isn't a good ICE?
> In my view, a better question is what kind of car doesn't already exist 
> (to convert) that would make a good EV? Such a car would have to be built 
> from scratch. I'd say something like the NMG http://www.myersmotors.com/, 
> but not with their $30k price tag.

A design that makes use of the high low-rpm torque would make sense. Or a 
system that makes use of the fact that batteries don't have to sit in one 
chunk and the motor itself is smaller. Or making use of the fact that the 
weight can be located to a rather arbitrary point, instead of being engine 
dictated. Redundant power trains (how often have you wished your race car 
had that?). Basically, all those features that we have discussed as physics 
reasons for making a switch.

Of course breaking into the world mindset will require something different, 
something dynamic, something fresh, something interesting. This is why 
Myers, and Tesla haven't succeeded in making the jump. While the design of 
the Tesla Roadster is uncommon, it is also bland compared to the 
price-alikes, far from dynamic, not interesting, and the performance 
compared to the price-alikes is dismal. Myers is interesting, but isn't 
dynamic or fresh, virtually identical external designs have been shown at 
auto shows for years. The best of the announced vehicles for this is the 
Fisker Karma, different styling - but reminiscent of designs like the 
Vantage, certainly dynamic - Fisker's designs are always dynamic, a good 
amount of freshness - it will stand out from other vehicles without having 
the WTF reaction, and the grinning shark look is very interesting, it's only 
problems are $80,000, the lackluster performance and top speed for the 
price, and it looks like conspicuous consumption in this market. When it 
comes to the Karma, you get what you pay for, 
http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2008/01/fisker-karma.jpg looks better in 
blue than in silver to me.
Joe 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here is a better kit. http://www.superlitecars.com/ They already 
have two electric conversions done by the factory (and metric mind) The 
Roadster has 11" DC (started with 8" but wanted quicker). The Superlite 
Coup is set up with AC drive (Siemens) and plan was to use Lithium 
batt. Thats where they were last August when I was at the factory. 
Also make GT 40 kit. http://www.race-car-replicas.com/ They have all 
aluminum chassis. Very light but built to withstand track use. 
JMS



> Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "Jack Murray" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:30 PM
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like the XR3. Not a kit, but plans available. Can be built as a hybrid, or
all electric.
http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm
Regards,
Tom

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Roger Heuckeroth
<[email protected]>wrote:

> I think its mostly a matter of personal taste. I like this one:
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/2363
>
>


> Dave Hymers wrote:
> >
> > > Great post Lee.
> > >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> Why not use the 4 Insight battery packs? Sounds like it would be a great project.
> 

Becasue they are too small? And would have heating issues in pure EV use.

144V*6.5ah = 936wh * 4 = 3744wh /200wh/mile = 18.72 miles

That would be ok if true for me, but marginal.

When we add in the 80% rule it drops to 15 miles at 200 wh/mile.
Anyone venture a guess to wh/mile on such a conversion?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:43:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] What do I need to do to get a 150 mile range on my EV?
>
> I have planned for a long time to someday convert an insight.
> I want to find one with a blown ice and then get 3 more electric motors froma wrecking yard and replace the 3 cylinders-have a 4 rotor insight! It might be overkill, too much torque off the line, but to have good passing aceleration, it may be perfect.
>
> Now can we stack and sync the stock controller? or just replace the whole thing.
>
> Obviously Lithium, maybe lithium Polymer.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 29 Apr 2009 at 6:16, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > Anyone venture a guess to wh/mile on such a conversion?
> 
> ...


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