# Solar



## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

I notice that some diy people buy solar cells from ebay then frame,solder, and encapsulate to make solar panel. The same people then make youtube about their experience and process. Me personally think that I would just get solar panels and not diy a solar cells unless special application. For example residential home rooftop seems less labor/work to just purchase solar panels and not cells.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Stay far away for Ebay, Harbor Fright, and Northern Tool for any type of solar panels or equipment as it is over priced junk from China.

Where in NTX are you referring too? RE is not popular in TX because energy prices are extremely low, no NET METERING LAWS, or state incentives except on the Left Coast Island of Austin TX. Most utilites in TX will only pay wholesale prices for excess, and many will not even allow a GTI sytsem to be connected.

Most of the equipment is through installers in NTX but there are a few suppliers in Dallas area. 

As for DIY panels I strongly recommend you do not try to do this. As they will fail in a very short time and with prices in the collapsing market you can buy factory panels at less cost and they come with warranties. DIY panels cannot be used in any code compliant installations or qualify for FED tax credits. You will want UL or ETL listed panels...


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunking said:


> Stay far away for Ebay, Harbor Fright, and Northern Tool for any type of solar panels or equipment as it is over priced junk from China.
> 
> Where in NTX are you referring too? RE is not popular in TX because energy prices are extremely low, no NET METERING LAWS, or state incentives except on the Left Coast Island of Austin TX. Most utilites in TX will only pay wholesale prices for excess, and many will not even allow a GTI sytsem to be connected.
> 
> ...


I somewhat agree about Harbor Freight 
However, I do not understand the rest of you statement. Ebay is lousy sometime because you do not know what you get til you get the item.

I do live in North Texas DFW and I can drive to where ever for solar panels and related materials.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> I somewhat agree about Harbor Freight
> However, I do not understand the rest of you statement. Ebay is lousy sometime because you do not know what you get til you get the item.
> 
> I do live in North Texas DFW and I can drive to where ever for solar panels and related materials.


how much are you looking to purchase (in terms of kwp)?? and are you planning on grid tied or stand alone??? 
I buy directly from a manufacturer in China and my last purchase was about a year ago. best price you can get for best quality, but I am not sure what it takes in terms of import duty to the US, I shipped mine to Europe and had to pay 20% VAT.


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

efan said:


> how much are you looking to purchase (in terms of kwp)?? and are you planning on grid tied or stand alone???
> I buy directly from a manufacturer in China and my last purchase was about a year ago. best price you can get for best quality, but I am not sure what it takes in terms of import duty to the US, I shipped mine to Europe and had to pay 20% VAT.


How much will $4000- $5000 get. I am thinking about 200watt /230watt with enphase micro grid tie inverters.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> How much will $4000- $5000 get. I am thinking about 200watt /230watt with enphase micro grid tie inverters.


they go about a $1/wp from the manufacturer but this seems to be a really low quantity and I am not sure if it would be worth dealing with the shipping/customs etc (it may become worth the trouble at ~10kw)...you are probably going to be better off to find a seller based in the US...I haven't purchases photovoltaics within US, but found this on google after a quick search (I don't know the company and have never done business with them, so if you are going to consider them do your research prior purchasing):

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> How much will $4000- $5000 get. I am thinking about 200watt /230watt with enphase micro grid tie inverters.


I am not familiar with enphase micro grid inverters, but aren't they a pricey solution?? why not a standard grid tie inverter?


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

efan said:


> I am not familiar with enphase micro grid inverters, but aren't they a pricey solution?? why not a standard grid tie inverter?


Micro inverters are great if you get different size/power panels when you buy from different vendors over time. They are an ideal way to build up a PV system without getting into too much debt.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

StanSimmons said:


> Micro inverters are great if you get different size/power panels when you buy from different vendors over time. They are an ideal way to build up a PV system without getting into too much debt.


perhaps they will work for you, but from what I can find online they are priced around $200/unit(200wp)...so for a 5kw system you need about $5k worth of enphase inverters whereas a regular inverter will run you about $2.5k for the same power.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

efan said:


> perhaps they will work for you, but from what I can find online they are priced around $200/unit(200wp)...so for a 5kw system you need about $5k worth of enphase inverters whereas a regular inverter will run you about $2.5k for the same power.


This is true, and you are also limited to a grid-tie only system, but it does allow you to purchase small quantities of panels and build up your system as you can afford it. 

Enphase isn't the only manufacturer of micro inverters. There several others that sell in the US, and a variety of inexpensive ones available from China.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

TX Cotton I advise you to call your Utility provider like OnCore or whoever your provider is and check out their policy with GTI systems. Then follow up by putting paper and pencil to it and run the numbers.

You are in TX like me, I am on OnCore and just locked in my rate for 3 years @ $0.086Kwh which is dirt cheap. The thing about TX is we do not have Net Metering Laws or state incentives. OnCore where I am at does have a GTI policy but it is not pretty. They will credit you $0.051Kwh for any excess you generate, and charge you $0.132/Kwh plus monthly charges for the meter and service.

So what you end up with in most cases is paying more or about the same per month than you do now with no hope of an ROI. If you finance it you get stuck with loan payments on top of monthly utility charges. I know a lot of Texans who went with a GTI system they had to finance, and they went from paying an average $150/month to the utility, to $500 to $600/month (utility + loan payment) for the next 10 years. Those who paid cash still pay the utility about the same monthly because their rates got jacked up from 9 cents to just over 13-cents per Kwh.

Another challenge you going DIY is pulling permits and passing inspections. It is possible some DIY's can get through the gauntlet of permitting and electrical codes, but that is an exception to the rule in general. No utility will connect you, nor will any homeowner insurance carrier cover the system and your home without an approved and inspected system.

So do your homework or you might just get what you are asking for; Screwed Over.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Agree with the DIY being a very poor option. I am not in TX, but have found that getting the local utility to buy into renewable energy to be a seriously tough proposition. I've been working at it with continuous lobbying {a 1 man lobbying effort} and numerous newspaper articles through a sympathetic newspaper editor. After 3 years of trying, we have now gotten approval to do grid-tied solar, but they are dragging their collective feet in getting the paperwork pushed through. 

Upton Sinclair was credited with the quote: "*It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!*" I'd adjust that a slight bit to end, "when he _believes_ his salary depends on not understanding it!"

Try googling solar guerilla. It makes interesting reading on the idea of civil disobedience as related to renewables.


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunking said:


> TX Cotton I advise you to call your Utility provider like OnCore or whoever your provider is and check out their policy with GTI systems. Then follow up by putting paper and pencil to it and run the numbers.
> 
> You are in TX like me, I am on OnCore and just locked in my rate for 3 years @ $0.086Kwh which is dirt cheap. The thing about TX is we do not have Net Metering Laws or state incentives. OnCore where I am at does have a GTI policy but it is not pretty. They will credit you $0.051Kwh for any excess you generate, and charge you $0.132/Kwh plus monthly charges for the meter and service.
> 
> ...


 I agree again HOWEVER In my application I plan to pay outright for the solar panels ,grid tie inverter. and racking. What can eat into your wallet after those dollars is a "chuckle head" electric contractor. Oh btw are you saying these other people actually had their kwh rate increase just because their feeding back into the grid. I understand you will get below market kwh price on feedback gen electricity.Oh ya does Louisiana , Okla, or New Mex laws force utility providers(aka Oncor) to pay different rates???


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> Oh btw are you saying these other people actually had their kwh rate increase just because their feeding back into the grid. I understand you will get below market kwh price on feedback gen electricity.Oh ya does Louisiana , Okla, or New Mex laws force utility providers(aka Oncor) to pay different rates???


Yes that is what I am saying. As I stated before TX does not have Net Metering Laws, so electric utilities are not even required to connect you if you want a grid tied system. Many of the COOP's will not even consider it. Those that do can make any policy they want. Only exception is the city of Austin TX.

As you know TX electric is deregulated which keeps prices very low and competitive under the watchful eye of the PUC. For example you can go online and shop for electric rates. Today with say a 2-year contract you can get a rate of around $0.082/Kwh service with unlimited usage. Heck of a deal as I am locked in for 3 years. Rate sin TX have dropped 27% in the last 3 years and expected to drop even more if we get a new POTUS next year.

Likewise the utilities have policies for Grid Tied. Generally speaking the rate is much higher as opposed to standard service. Each one is unique and you have to do your own shopping. Generally speaking with respect to Solar only OnCore who owns the lines and equipment in your area can offer Grid Tied Service. The competitors like Champion are not allowed to offer the service. Only the POCO who owns the generation/transmission/distribution equipment can offer it. So they can do anything they want.

That is why I suggest you do your homework before jumping in. 

*Also another warning.* Check with your insurance company before doing anything. Many will not cover solar systems, and the ones that will have requirements that must be met like installed by a licensed electrical contractor. So do your homework. Or you may get what you asked for, screwed over. Most insurance companies that will cover a solar system are going to require both mechanical and electrical permits/inspection with stamped documentation from a Professional Engineers to state the roof or structure can handle the load, and the electrical design is safe and compliant with all local and state codes.


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

I agree once again , Just curious though about solar option. TXU has been fairly cooperative since I have been in Texas although some others hate on "them". Reliant/TXU, Green Moutain, and so really bore me anyhow. When you consider alot of the US was electrified by co-operatives and not big freakin corp business. Thanks sunking


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Sunking
I just notice that TXU energy(my provider) is offering solar city with a 20 year lease plus fine print and monitoring svc.You can get a free quote too.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

TexasCotton said:


> Hey Sunking
> I just notice that TXU energy(my provider) is offering solar city with a 20 year lease plus fine print and monitoring svc.You can get a free quote too.


My girlfriend got a system thru Solar City last year and has been pleased with it. She has been very pleased with it. If you are interested, she will probably let you come see the installation in south Arlington, TX.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> Hey Sunking
> I just notice that TXU energy(my provider) is offering solar city with a 20 year lease plus fine print and monitoring svc.You can get a free quote too.


Unless you are locked into a contract with them now, I suggest you do comparison shopping,and see what other options are available if any. Can't hurt to try.


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunking said:


> Unless you are locked into a contract with them now, I suggest you do comparison shopping,and see what other options are available if any. Can't hurt to try.


Question Sunking you post on another solar panel forum too?
Are you a certified engineer ?


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> Question Sunking you post on another solar panel forum too?


Correct.



TexasCotton said:


> Are you a certified engineer


Licensed Professional Engineer


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunking 
I have a new question. Go to EBAY an type flexible solar and/or look at items 270885187428. I wanna do this type of application on my 04 Toyota Prius.The vehicle roof size is 1524mm by 1093mm .I wanna max out the roof with this and get about 200-240 watt. How and what would I need to integrate into my vehicle aka diy???


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

TexasCotton said:


> Sunking
> I have a new question. Go to EBAY an type flexible solar and/or look at items 270885187428. I wanna do this type of application on my 04 Toyota Prius.The vehicle roof size is 1524mm by 1093mm .I wanna max out the roof with this and get about 200-240 watt. How and what would I need to integrate into my vehicle aka diy???


I could not tell you anything about it as there are no specs listed other than 60 watt which I seriously doubt because thin film flexible panels typically are around 5 to 9% efficient. So what that means is for each square meter of surface area one would expect about 50 to 90 watts max power

Other than that I say pass as it is a rip-off because he is wanting USD $6.76/watt. I can build you a whole grid tied system for your house for less money than that with a profit. Flexible panels should cost around $2 or less per watt.


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunking said:


> Stay far away for Ebay, Harbor Fright, and Northern Tool for any type of solar panels or equipment as it is over priced junk from China.
> 
> Where in NTX are you referring too? RE is not popular in TX because energy prices are extremely low, no NET METERING LAWS, or state incentives except on the Left Coast Island of Austin TX. Most utilites in TX will only pay wholesale prices for excess, and many will not even allow a GTI sytsem to be connected.
> 
> ...


SUNKING
You must have a few suppliers,dealers in DFW you can suggest ?? Plz


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

TexasCotton said:


> SUNKING
> You must have a few suppliers,dealers in DFW you can suggest ?? Plz


 Back to original question where can I get a "solar panel" in DFW area????


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## w5lee (Aug 9, 2011)

I bought mine from simpleray.com. They have flat rate shipping of $149. They are out of state so you don't have sales tax. I am in Denton so they give me $3/AC Watt rebate. Working on my second batch of 5KW now


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