# Maximum RPM? ADC 9"



## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi All,
Can anyone running an ADC FB4001A 9" motor confirm the spec for maximum RPM safe running continuous, and if there is one, short burst, say up to 1 min etc...

If it has any bearing, I'm looking at running a 144v nominal system with curtis 500A controller.

Many thanks in advance.

Paul


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I have that motor in my EV. The Redline is 7,000 RPMs. But I shift gears at around 4,000 so I can get more power. I usually drive at 3500 RPMs. DC motors have their power at lower RPM and efficiency at higher RPM.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Wow, that seems high, do you really think it would hold up for long at 7K rpm?! I'd have expected it to top out at around 5K ish...

Paul


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I would have to look at the documentation I got to see what it is rated at and for how long (if it even has that info). I am assuming that you will be coupling the motor to a trany so you don't really have to run the motor at those RPMs. I'll see what my documentation says at home and post it here.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

favguy said:


> Hi All,
> Can anyone running an ADC FB4001A 9" motor confirm the spec for maximum RPM safe running continuous, and if there is one, short burst, say up to 1 min etc...
> 
> If it has any bearing, I'm looking at running a 144v nominal system with curtis 500A controller.
> ...


http://www.evmotors.com.au/products/download/fb144.pdf

144V graph for the motor you are speaking of...


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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> http://www.evmotors.com.au/products/download/fb144.pdf
> 
> 144V graph for the motor you are speaking of...


I have been asking the same questions and searched the internet for the safe continuous maximum RPM for my FB1-4001A. I have the Advanced DC chart Bowser330 linked to. The way they show all 4 graph lines together makes me wonder what they mean. I know at higher RPM I draw MUCH LESS amperage when at a steady speed and at a lower RPM I have MUCH MORE power.
I found some info that might help at these places
http://robotics.ee.uwa.edu.au/theses/2008-REV-Management-Mathew.pdf
and
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/max-motor-rpm-volts-and-top-23958.html
and 
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td15536986|a15549308


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Here is the information that came with my motor.
144 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 134 320 4200 48.8 36.8
1 Hour 138 185 5700 30.4 22.9
Continuous 139 170 6000 28.5 21.50

Above motor ratings are without controller in circuit


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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

Zemmo said:


> Here is the information that came with my motor.
> 144 Volts
> Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
> 5 Minutes 134 320 4200 48.8 36.8
> ...


Thanks Zemmo. 

BTW nice info on your web site, acceleration rates amp draw and all.

6000 RPM Continuous on a FB1-4001A
I guess unless it is hot outside


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Thanks for the cutos on my website. I try to help where I can in the EV world.

The same page has all of the data for 96 volts and 120 volts. For prosperity, I will post those voltages here also:

FB1-4001
96 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 88 360 3300 35.0 26.5
1 Hour 89 210 3600 23.0 17.30
Continuous 90 190 3900 20.0 15.0

120 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 109 340 3520 43.0 32.5
1 Hour 114 205 4800 27.5 20.80
Continuous 115 182 5200 25.2 19.0

For the other main two Advanced DC motors here are their stats on this info page:

L91-4003 - 6.7" Dia. Motor
96 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 87 280 3650 26.4 20.0
1 Hour 91 150 4950 15.0 11.40
Continuous 92 130 5100 13.6 10.25

120 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 112 260 3600 31.0 23.4
1 Hour 115 135 6200 17.0 13.5
Continuous 116 122 6500 16.0 12.0 


203-06-4001 - 8" Dia. Motor
96 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 86 332 3600 31.5 23.8
1 Hour 90 190 4800 20.6 15.5
Continuous 91 178 5000 19.0 14.4

120 Volts
Time on Volts Amps RPM HP KW
5 Minutes 111 300 4650 37.0 28.0
1 Hour 114 180 6200 24.0 18.0
Continuous 115 165 6500 21.7 16.3


Hopefully this will help everyone with an Advanced DC motor that didn't get all of the info that I did.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

zemmo, youve done the community a great service by detail youve provided on your website.

Thank you sir.


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## ice (Sep 8, 2008)

two thumbs up for Zemmo! your a star!


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## Bigfoot (Oct 23, 2008)

Do any of you have a clearer copy of the FB1-400A drawing that you can make out the dimensions on. I want to use it in my report. Or I might do an autoCad version of it. Looks Nicer.


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## Hi Torque Electric (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey all

I'd advise anyone using the ADC 9" to keep RPM's to 5K or risk blowing up the motor. Some might get away with it a few times but you're in serious danger of blowing the comm. I have pics in my "hall of Flame album" at my site for those doubting Thomas' 
Hope this save a few from some heartache.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Well there is bound to be a few motors that have a flaw in them. Thats just what comes from manufacturing. So I don't think I would base the performance from just one motor having a problem. These motors were well tested and the specs were documented. I would think running these motors at those speeds should be fine. But being that said, in my own EV, don't go above 4,500 RPMs. I find the efficiency a little bit better at a lower RPM (3,000 to 4,000) plus the HP at those RPM ranges isn't anything to brag about. So I don't really see a need to get that high of a RPM.

Do you have a link to this site with the bad motor. I wouldn't mind see it.


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## Hi Torque Electric (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey Zemmo

I never base my opinion on a single data point and reserve judgement over time. ADC used to state a 7000 RPM limit but reduced it to 5K after time (and I'm sure several failure complaints). As someone who's built these motors for near 30 years all I can do is offer my advise and I leave it to you to take it or leave it

Here's a link to some of the ones I've had the displeasure to witness and I have several more headless corpses in house to confirm my opinion and statement.

http://hitorqueelectric.com/gallery...2_GALLERYSID=8b3f6c5d47af86cc5b64ba75b70d058b

Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

That is interesting. That sucker really few apart didn't it! But there is some context to put with that. The general description says that the belt broke while under load. So that means to me that they were accelerating and the drive belt broke meaning the motor suddenly became unloaded and over spun. Unloaded motors can spin up insanely quickly and blow right past their red line in a fraction of a second. So that scenario is different than most EV, I don't think there are many people out there with a belt driven EV (Besides Sparrows/NMG). The norm would be having the motor connected to a trans. If you didn't put the car into gear or left the clutch pushed in, you could over spin a motor that was connected to an trans, that would be the same scenario. I think that this particular failure is from the motor becoming unloaded and over spun, who knows what RPM it hit.

You could be right about ADC lowering their limits. I don't know the date of my documents. I'll have to go back to it and see what the date is. If it is extremely old, they could have adjusted their limits. I'll see if I can remember to go back and look at that documentation.


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I went home over lunch and looked at the documentation. It was dated as a revised document on 12-10-92. So the document is old but what I have is already a new revision from original. I don't know the revision number as it wasn't anywhere that I saw, but it was already an updated document.

The end result is use your best judgment on your RPMs. But more than likely you have this motor mounted to a transmission and there for probably isn't a problem if your shifting properly.


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## Hi Torque Electric (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey Zemmo

I try my best to keep people from having to find things out the hard way best I can. I hear the crys and horror stories from people from countless sources and areas. Being I saw that 7000 RPM's was being touted as the limit I felt compeld to throw my advise to this post. I stand fast in my statement and my belief that anything over 5K is flirting with disaster and no slip of paper or document can waiver me from my earlier warning. The Warps claim a 5500 RPM limit on the 9's as another source that the 9" motors are much more limited than smaller diametered motors.

FWIW I get no reward for my services here other than hoping I've helped people protect their motor investments.

Jim


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Yes it never hurts to error on the side of caution.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

So am I to infer that the oddball 6.5/7" motor that I have should be good up to 7000rpm or are smaller motors limited to around 5500RPM?

When I have looked for specs one says 5500rpm continous and another says 6300rpm continuous.

So continuous should be read as maximum?

Reason I ask is because my vehicle has a fixed gear ratio and to go faster my rpm will have to increase, I have done some mods and my RPMs are creeping higher at cruising around 4200rpm but I plan on going further, not sure what the absolute max is though.

Thank You
Ryan


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

My data was from December 1992. Your best bet would be to find more recent data for these motors as it was pointed out earlier, they could have lowered the max RPMs.

What voltages and speeds are you archiving in your EV?


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Zemmo said:


> My data was from December 1992. Your best bet would be to find more recent data for these motors as it was pointed out earlier, they could have lowered the max RPMs.
> 
> What voltages and speeds are you archiving in your EV?


The car I am attempting (slowly) to speed up is a Miles ZX40, it has a huge  5hp chinese series wound motor and currently is running on 48v. I am more practical and cheap so I am going after low hanging fruit, the 2100lb van is rated to go 24mph, by simply inflating the tires, changing some batteries and cables, changing fluids, moly in the wheel bearings I am up to 32mph on the flat, I am slowly experimenting with field reduction and my goal speed is around 35-40mph which I believe should be achievable with simple field reduction once I determine a proper material for permanent use. (right now my circuits could be used as a heating element)

I may eventually go up to 96v (because I can keep all the 48v equip. but the controller by using a contactor to charge and keeping 48v wiring for the dash & DC DC the imbalance doesn't concern me much)

But I do not believe at the moment 96v is worthwhile, the motor is rated at 75 volts and can easily run on 96v but the fixed gear ratio would mean that I could overrace the motor as redline (per my appoximation) would be around 6500rpm or about 44mph. If however the redline is higher since the motor is not a 9" but between 6.5 & 7" diameter then I might be more motivated to move it on up 

My other EV is a 1981 C-car with a 72v 10hp D&D ES-40b-9-rw which drives the car up to 50mph (55mph if I ever get new batteries) which I am very happy with so there is no need for more on that car.

Cheers
Ryan


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Wow, you got almost 10 more MPH out of the same vehicle. Thats pretty cool! Did getting more speed decrease your mileage?

Well, the only data that I have is what I got posted on the ADC motors. It was part of the documentation that came with the motor. At that time, they thought it could hit the higher RPMs. So for now you will just have to take the info the way it is and you can just hope for the best.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Zemmo said:


> Wow, you got almost 10 more MPH out of the same vehicle. Thats pretty cool! Did getting more speed decrease your mileage?
> 
> Well, the only data that I have is what I got posted on the ADC motors. It was part of the documentation that came with the motor. At that time, they thought it could hit the higher RPMs. So for now you will just have to take the info the way it is and you can just hope for the best.


No I get MORE range, reason being the transmission oil was like sludge (some cheap dino oil) same on the bearings, tire placard on the side of the vehicle is 24psi tires are rated at 44psi, I put in 60psi, the tire pressure made a huge difference in speed and replacing some poor AGM batteries with floodeds seemed to help a lot.

The field weakening I have only tested 4 times and it hasn't had much effect, but I plan on using some long strands of enamel 18 gauge copper for my next test, hopefully enough current will go through to change speed more than a couple MPH.


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