# 68 Land Rover Series 109 , Tesla Powered



## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Job 1. Clean out all the rat poop and remove old engine and transmission.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

For fun I bought a old produce scale and weighed each component that was removed. Any and all seals and rubber on the car had given up the ghost. I did some research on dimensions of the Tesla LDU and battery dimensions and began planning out the layout. I wanted to use a full Tesla Pack to have hope of having acceptable range.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

I picked up a LDU from Tesla Parts in El Cajon. Henry is a nice guy, very busy. I began rebuilding the axles…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

First iteration of the battery box was Home Depot racking angle iron and thin sheet aluminum. It became apparent that that wasn’t gonna cut it…This was about the point I considered going another direction.


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

Love it. Last time I sat in a LWB Landy I was 4yo and was right at the back on the sideways seat with no tail door. Driver went over a speed hump a bit fast and I was thrown up off the seat and not that far from falling out. Still traumatised.

Are you going to run one driveshaft back and one forward from the Tesla diff to the Landy diffs? The top speed will be very low doing that, anything over about 8000rpm runs field weakening and will overheat the motor/reduce power a lot/be rather inefficient. Or do you have a replacement gear ratio kit?


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

This style conversion has been done before. You can find snippets here and there. My hope is that by posting this it will help others who want to persue a similar conversion. To answer your question, yes the motor is mounted turned 90* so that one shaft powers the front axle, one the rear. Recommendation is to swap out the differential for a Quaife limited slip version, a gearset that improves the ratio, and an internal oil pump housing that accounts for the motor primary running reversed from factory… but your getting ahead of the story David.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

First big frustration was trying to get the motor to spin. I had already blown the budget ( ok I never calculated a budget) and was only just getting started. The cheapest option by far for getting the Tesla LDU motor to spin was replacing the mother board with a version from open inverter. Venmo’d my money and patiently waited for it to arrive from Ireland. Upon arriving , some assembly required. Fine soldering of components onto the motherboard is necessary to get around some sort of import restrictions. I created a bench to test things on and as I didn’t have the money for the batteries I wired a few car batteries in series for testing purposes..


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

While working on the motor spinning issue I would take a break and work on other projects in tandem. Axles all back together, brakes rebuilt, rubbers and felts replaced around windows. The rodent urine smell is mostly gone as well. I began working on battery box design 2.0. Making boxes out of 3/4 plywood, and then a version 3.0 version out of 1/8 plywood. The plan was to use a full pack, 16 Tesla modules. 12 up front in the engine bay and 4 out back where the gas tank used to live. I also found that there was space between the frame rails and above the gas tank to house a control box for contractors,BMS, battery charger ETC…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

About this time the Quaife LSD arrived in the mail. The motor was cracked open and gearset, oil pump and LSD were swapped out. Kind of a big project but there’s several YouTube videos out that cover it pretty well. Oh yeah, somewhere in here I got a lift because I was tired of crawling around on the floor. Helpful but you still crawl around a lot


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

So it was time for a battery, battery costs about as much as an old 56 Chevy with a 30 year old restoration. As I no longer love the smell of exhaust, it was a trade I was ready to make. Kids are still a little upset about it but that’s life…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Battery tear down was fun. It has a very distinct smell. It’s the new gas/ grease smell for me. Was able to mock up the battery setup in the 3/4 ply box and get a better sense of how the boxes should end up and where all the penetrations should go.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

This is kind of a high level review of my progress over the last 2 years. Kinda documenting so that I remember. Once I had all the batteries I took another crack at getting the open inverter MCU to spin the motor. Many hours, much frustration, no luck. It had a jenky wi fi connection and I can’t be sure all my soldering was up to snuff.. I began looking for another solution….
In the pictures you can see I sorted out the drive lines. A family friend was able to turn down the ends of the axle shafts and weld on a flange that accepted the standard u joint. 
All new low voltage wiring was run all lights will be LED.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

About now I was getting serious about a battery box solution. I enlisted same family friend to design and produce boxes out of 3/16 aluminum. After sitting on it for several months he came to me and said it was over his head but he had a buddy that works at a very well known San Diego EV shop that could do it. He passed me off to his buddy who spoke to me once or twice. I could never pin him down on a price. After pressing him a few times things fizzled out. So you know what they say.. if you want something done something something you have to do it yourself. I got on this website called Fiver and found a guy in Sri Lanka that goes by ElectroCad to help me draft up the control box. Plans were sent to send cut send and then I welded aluminum for the first time ever using my MIG welder…
The notch was to make sure the Differential
Didn’t hit the control box under extreme travel.
Inside the control box is a panel that all the components are mounted on. This is offset from the base by a couple nuts this allows for tapping mounting screws without penetrating the box and has been invaluable as I have moved most of the components multiple times trying to get the best layout. There will be a 12x14 access panel that will allow last minute bms connections and fuse changes even with rear battery box stacked underneath.

Also I still continued trying to breath life into the motor getting the computer as close as I could to get a reliable WiFi connection…. Aww Nuts…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

About this time I was trying to find another VCU/MCU solution. Most vendors want you to buy a package from them Tested Tesla LDU and whatever system they’re running. In hindsight I should have gone this route. I was trying to save money but it definitely hasn’t turned out that way…I ended up going with an east coast vendors top of the line system that comes with a large IPad for navigation, tire pressure monitors etc… Dropped a large chunk of change…. It’s been 6 months and I still haven’t received the system. Lots of empty promises. Do your research. If I had to do it over from where I’m at I would have chosen EV controls TC2 system and I may still have to do that…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

More design of the battery boxes. This time I got my nephew involved as it turns out he works a a metal fab shop. Still used Electro_Cad for primary design but my nephew was able to tweak a few things here and there…If anyone is interested I have all the files for all the boxes.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

More pics


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Love the build log and your packaging solutions, though 3/4 plywood almost costs as much as aluminum these days.

Jackstands...who needs 'em when you have a PC?








😂


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

Could I perhaps suggest to destructively test some weld samples using the same technique and level of cleanliness as used on the battery box? I have seen bad things happen to that style of welding after about a year. There is very little vibration resistance so they fracture off slowly over time and eventually part company without warning.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"That style of welding?"

You mean using a spool gun?

Pulling vs pushing the weld and not using pure Argon (vs 75/25) will mess up strength, but otherwise...same difference.

Good comparison here, including weld cross section & etch analysis:


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Ha. I believe I watched that video before I started the welding project. I agree that TIG would be superior. There were definitely some areas that didn’t meet the grade and were ground out and redone. I tried to be redundant welding inside and out watching for good penetration. I’ll have to keep an eye on things. Not so worried about the front box as it’s supported well from below. The rear boxes however are hung. I have a secondary support system in mind as well. Worst case ( short of dropping packs on FWY ) I have plans and I go battery box 4.0.


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## EV-FAN (May 17, 2021)

Very cool!!! How did you connect to driveshaft to the drive unit?


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

EV-FAN said:


> Very cool!!! How did you connect to driveshaft to the drive unit?


The existing Tesla axle shaft end cup was cut down on a lathe and then a flange matching the Land Rover style U joint welded on ( by a professional machine shop  ) The machinist said the metal was hardened and he had to use a special blade/ chisel on the lathe…


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## EV-FAN (May 17, 2021)

Thanks for the pictures! That driveshaft is looks clean with the slip joint and double cardan!

Nice job on the addition of the LSD and gear swap!


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

EV-FAN said:


> Thanks for the pictures! That driveshaft is looks clean with the slip joint and double cardan!
> 
> Nice job on the addition of the LSD and gear swap!


Tom Woods. Very professional, fair pricing…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Two fun stories…. First I was about to seal up the main battery box, pretty confident with my work but decided I should test the cooling system…. Sure enough the spring clamps weren’t doing the trick in all areas. Had to switch them out for regular hose clamps…. Good thing I checked…
Next I had the front box mounted and was pulling some high voltage cables to the control box when I got this strange tingly sensation…. Got out the volt meter and sure enough there was 96V wandering throughout the car…. Quick call to my brother, the brains of the operation… and we surmised something was shorting out….I was hoping it was just a stray lid screw so I wouldn’t have to pull the whole box but alas I couldn’t solve the mystery without pulling the box and breaking the silicone RTV seal. Once opened I found that the heater hose used for the coolant system on the battery side of the box, which also had been used on the bus bar side of the box for insulation/ vibration / battery stabilization was conductive… carbon fiber reinforcement??


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Lowcoe said:


> Once opened I found that the heater hose used for the coolant system on the battery side of the box, which also had been used on the bus bar side of the box for insulation/ vibration / battery stabilization was conductive… carbon fiber reinforcement??
> View attachment 127085


That's interesting, and good to know.
The first useful reference I found in a quick search:
Electrical Properties of Rubber Hose
A coolant hose wouldn't have wire reinforcement, but apparently some rubber components can be conductive.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

500k is not _that_ conductive, but your point to point meter probes are not representative of the resistance if you've slit the hose and used it along the length of a busbar or metal box. 

The relevant resistance would be from inner wall to outer wall and drops like a bunch of parallel resistors were there if there's contact along the length.

Would be fun to revisit the measurement that way sometime if you get bored and have some copper pipe or bus bar kicking around.

Don't forget to graffiti that hose with some spray paint now that you pierced it...
😅


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

How much plunge do your driveshafts need to do during articulation? There is a small consideration for pulling the inner stub out of the diff as it is only held in by a wire clip. Yes OEM axles plunge but they are rollers whereas the traditional cardan shaft plunges on a spline and so has a lot of friction


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

So this post pretty much catches us up to present day. Late Jan 2022. Just installed a custom fit radiator with 2 tanks. Thought I’d one for battery one for motor/charger circuit. All hoses run. Just waiting on VCU/MCU solution. I need to rebuild front floors and firewall due to changes from LDU. Lots of rust in these areas anyways.. I did get Headlights and tail lights working. 
Other things on to do list: Bleed Brakes, more seals around removable roof, finish control box wiring especially BMS peripherals. Seal control box and mount rear battery box…


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

Lowcoe said:


> Not so worried about the front box as it’s supported well from below. The rear boxes however are hung. I have a secondary support system in mind as well.


My concern isn't so much the welds breaking, more the slow deterioration of strength due to road vibration and one day you are driving a bonfire because the battery module that had been sagged for the last month finally touched where it wasn't meant to.

When I was much younger I built a jet boat and mounted the engine the same way, mig welding 8mm ali plates. I preheated the parts to as hot as I could get them, cleaned them as best I could and ran the welder as hot as I could. It looked nice, the welds burned in and it all looked ok. But after a year or so, unfortunately after I had sold the boat, the engine parted company on the new owner. He redid the plates in steel and it was fine but still, I won't be mig welding ali again. At least not until I can understand the process a lot better. The welds failed from the root outwards so only indicated failure after unplanned disassembly.


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

Lowcoe said:


> Just waiting on VCU/MCU solution


Did you check out AEM? I am using their gear in my trifive which is two LDUs 4wd


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Readings were all over the place but once I removed the hoses they all disappeared. That hose went in the trash. Haha


remy_martian said:


> 500k is not _that_ conductive, but your point to point meter probes are not representative of the resistance if you've slit the hose and used it along the length of a busbar or metal box.
> 
> The relevant resistance would be from inner wall to outer wall and drops like a bunch of parallel resistors were there if there's contact along the length.
> 
> ...


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Did you use pure Argon or the 75/25 MIG mix? My bet is the latter, or you pulled the puddle, and you contaminated the weld.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

57Chevy said:


> How much plunge do your driveshafts need to do during articulation? There is a small consideration for pulling the inner stub out of the diff as it is only held in by a wire clip. Yes OEM axles plunge but they are rollers whereas the traditional cardan shaft plunges on a spline and so has a lot of friction


Not much I hope. This is a grocery getter, no plans for heavy off-roading…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

remy_martian said:


> Did you use pure Argon or the 75/25 MIG mix? My bet is the latter, or you pulled the puddle, and you contaminated the weld.


Argon. I pushed / pulled spot welded lol. 


57Chevy said:


> Did you check out AEM? I am using their gear in my trifive which is two LDUs 4wd


I talked to the AEM guys at an EV west show 6 months ago. Sounded like it was still under development and you needed to be a computer programmer to work with it. Cost wise I thinK EV controls is like half the price if I’m not mistaken….


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Heavy offroad doesn't matter. One full stroke to bump stops in a pothole could take out the gearcase. Might want to close up the bump stops on the suspension...


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Suspect it will be subject to quite a bit less vibration than a jet boat. More surface area /less torque but I definitely will keep an eye on it….


57Chevy said:


> My concern isn't so much the welds breaking, more the slow deterioration of strength due to road vibration and one day you are driving a bonfire because the battery module that had been sagged for the last month finally touched where it wasn't meant to.
> 
> When I was much younger I built a jet boat and mounted the engine the same way, mig welding 8mm ali plates. I preheated the parts to as hot as I could get them, cleaned them as best I could and ran the welder as hot as I could. It looked nice, the welds burned in and it all looked ok. But after a year or so, unfortunately after I had sold the boat, the engine parted company on the new owner. He redid the plates in steel and it was fine but still, I won't be mig welding ali again. At least not until I can understand the process a lot better. The welds failed from the root outwards so only indicated failure after unplanned disassembly.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

remy_martian said:


> Heavy offroad doesn't matter. One full stroke to bump stops in a pothole could take out the gearcase. Might want to close up the bump stops on the suspension...


Not following close up?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Reduce the airgap, which limits the plunge


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

Lowcoe said:


> Sounded like it was still under development and you needed to be a computer programmer to work with it.


AEM knocked their price almost in half a while ago so it is not too bad. If you are CA based, you can ship via an freight forwarder in Oregon and it'll work out cheaper.

You don't need to be a programmer anywhere near as much as the open source gear. Yes there aren't much in the way of instructions available but it wasn't that hard getting set up by guesswork. I did a thread on initial set up here. The only frustration was that I had to figure out things the iterative way, rather than just having the settings in front of me. That'll hopefully change shortly if/when they do a proper firmware and instructions release. The LDU board is a Cascadia inverter in disguise so their instructions are 95% valid.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

57Chevy said:


> AEM knocked their price almost in half a while ago so it is not too bad. If you are CA based, you can ship via an freight forwarder in Oregon and it'll work out cheaper.
> 
> You don't need to be a programmer anywhere near as much as the open source gear. Yes there aren't much in the way of instructions available but it wasn't that hard getting set up by guesswork. I did a thread on initial set up here. The only frustration was that I had to figure out things the iterative way, rather than just having the settings in front of me. That'll hopefully change shortly if/when they do a proper firmware and instructions release. The LDU board is a Cascadia inverter in disguise so their instructions are 95% valid.


I started reading your thread and was
Having open inverter flashbacks. I guess I just have to suck it up with any of these systems…. It’s just that I have no knowledge base for any of the programming end so I struggle…


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

Lowcoe said:


> I guess I just have to suck it up with any of these systems…


Yup. Just another learning curve to go through. Whatever you put in you'll either have to get to know well, or you'll have to call up the person who does know it well whenever it stops doing its thing.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

How much was the AEM setup for an LDU?


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

enlarscom said:


> is that an armored car?


Just need solar on the roof and I’m ready for the zombie apocalypse!


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Small update. I’ve been working on a parking brake solution. The original Land Rover parking brake for 68 was a drum attached to the transmission and that is now in my back yard (for sale lol). I like using orange Home Depot racking steel for most modifications on the project so people can see what is non original HaHa. I’m setting up a pinion brake that uses an electric Tesla parking brake caliper. Pictured is a modified go cart caliper. Version 2.0 will use a larger / thicker aluminum disc. After PolyKup screwed me over by taking my money and never delivering his fancy system (please don’t send your hard earned money to PolyKup / Sam Polyak), I licked my wounds and ordered up a Tesla LDU controller from EV Controls. I’m currently finishing up my wiring modifications and hope to do a start up in the next few weeks.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

I was this many days old when I learned you can ( and apparently should) have multiple can bus systems in a vehicle. I reached out to ev Controls on how to integrate their system and the Tesla LDU into the can bus circuit of the BMS and charger/ DC/DC converter…. They simply said separate the systems….. Huh never would have thought of that…


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Today was a BIG day. After buttoning up the rear battery box and hooking up the coolant hoses and pumps….. the beast moved under its own power!!! New items on the wish list… electric power steering and tesla ibooster power brake master cylinder!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Congrats - you seem to have sprinted to the finish line after getting your VCU woes sorted out.

Sidetracking - the MaxJax in your pic...their ads give the impression you can roll them out of the way when not in use. 

Don't they need to be bolted down to the floor in position when in use? And unbolted if you need them out of the way?


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Yes. You have to put lag bolts into the floor but you can unbolt and move them to the side…when preparing I actually drilled 2 sets of holes so I can move the lift from one side of the garage to the other… just need to order a second set of threaded sleeves for the floor anchors for the second site.


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## DubThing (Nov 3, 2017)

Lowcoe said:


> More design of the battery boxes. This time I got my nephew involved as it turns out he works a a metal fab shop. Still used Electro_Cad for primary design but my nephew was able to tweak a few things here and there…If anyone is interested I have all the files for all the boxes.
> View attachment 127055
> 
> View attachment 127058
> ...


"Got all the files for the boxes" that sounds like what I have been dreaming off. Just wish I had got my act together in the last 12 months and sold my camper to fund an electric landrover. I will be in touch to buy from you whatever you can help with. Do you have plans for all the other fabrication parts?
My dream build would be to be able to send cut send all the bits and then do the welding and assembly (Got to know my limits and be realistic)

Great to follow your build and look forward to the next instalment of your build.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

I’m always happy to help where I can. Guess it’s time for a little update.. I decided to take the boxes out yet again as I’m trying to chase down the HV Isolation fault. I’m adding quick disconnect HV terminals as well as Deutsch bulkhead connectors for the BMS. I really thought that the battery boxes were in for good but it wasn’t so. Another reason to pull the boxes is that after the maiden voyage I realized what everyone says about Rover brakes and steering is true, they’re crap! I will be installing electric power steering from a Saturn Vue and iBooster electric brakes like the units found in a Tesla. The particular unit I’m using is from a 2018 Honda Accord because that version has a remote reservoir.


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## DubThing (Nov 3, 2017)

Lowcoe said:


> I’m always happy to help where I can. Guess it’s time for a little update.. I decided to take the boxes out yet again as I’m trying to chase down the HV Isolation fault. I’m adding quick disconnect HV terminals as well as Deutsch bulkhead connectors for the BMS.  I really thought that the battery boxes were in for good but it wasn’t so. Another reason to pull the boxes is that after the maiden voyage I realized what everyone says about Rover brakes and steering is true, they’re crap! I will be installing electric power steering from a Saturn Vue and iBooster electric brakes like the units found in a Tesla. The particular unit I’m using is from a 2018 Honda Accord because that version has a remote reservoir.


I don’t know how you find the time.
Make sure you post up some photos of your work.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Here’s the current situation I’m putting all the components on this “Sled” and will work out ALL the bugs before it goes back in!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I like the liquid cooled stainless steel battery box there in the background...
😂


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

That’s for making wine.  Actually the Sled is the mobilehome brew station. Note the drying holes for drip drying carboys


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

I created some YouTube videos on my progress. I sealed up the 4 module rear battery pack and tested for high voltage isolation faults. Doesn’t seem to be any. Front box still seems to have issues. Will take some readings and ask for help soon.


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## Cybertech (11 mo ago)

Nice project


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## EVDEF90 (6 mo ago)

Lowcoe said:


> I created some YouTube videos on my progress. I sealed up the 4 module rear battery pack and tested for high voltage isolation faults. Doesn’t seem to be any. Front box still seems to have issues. Will take some readings and ask for help soon.


AMAZING PROJECT! Really appreciate the step by step documentation. I am starting a similar EV conversion of a 1995 Defender 90 with my son. Can You send me the files for the battery box when you have time? Thanks for sharing all this great information.
[email protected]


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## Bow (7 mo ago)

hello, I am converting a 1973 Series III in Australia. the battery box solution that you have created looks great. would you be able to send the cad files to me??? Cheers
Craig


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

I’d be happy to send them. I would recommend making the pattern up using 1/8 plywood paneling or something similar then you could prove the design in your application and then modify/iterate on the design a bit.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Love the pinion brake. I put one on my C10 build as a young teen...used a go-kart's cable-actuated caliper, lol. It kinda worked.


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## Bow (7 mo ago)

Lowcoe said:


> I’d be happy to send them. I would recommend making the pattern up using 1/8 plywood paneling or something similar then you could prove the design in your application and then modify/iterate on the design a bit.


sounds great. can you send them to my email - great project over Christmas break.


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## Lowcoe (Jul 3, 2020)

Oh. Your motivated! I’ll try to send them out tomorrow…


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