# Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

----- Original Message ----

From: Jack Squat <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle

<I hooked the two wires
from the ignition to the two small contacts (not the large ones on the top)
on the lower left of the Albright contactor.>

Generally one of the wires is + (positive) and the other - (negative). What is the voltage of the coil i.e. the control voltage? Hopefully it's 12 volts and you can connect one wire from the bike's ignition to the + terminal on the contactor and then ground the other terminal to the chassis of the bike.


<Also, how is the magura throttle supposed to be hooked up? It didn't come
with a wiring diagram. The Curtis controller has a #1, 2 and 3 small
contact and the diagram from the book only showed a regular potentiometer
hooked up to it which had 4 wires. The magura has 3 wires. Do they just
hook up at #1, 2 and 3 on the controller.>

You may need a meter to figure out which of the two wires to use from the throttle. The controller is looking for a resistance (0 -> 5K ohms). Those two wires hook to terminals 2,3 on the Curtis (i.e. the bottom two spade connectors, doesn't matter which is which). The top connector is the "KSI" input which is looking for full battery pack voltage i.e. 36 volts in your case. I hooked mine up via a toggle switch and if you have a kill-switch you could run a wire from the battery pack to that terminal via the kill switch. If the throttle is accidentally held open when power is applied the KSI switch will prevent the controller from working.

HTH



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

Thanks for the info. I tried all possible combinations of one ignition wire
to a terminal and one ignition wire to ground on the frame. Nothing
happened on the contactor. If I'm not mistaken it should click. I got the
it used so it may be that it doesn't work. If so, I guess I'll just have to
buy a new contactor and see if that was it.






> Frank John wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

24 volts. Also make sure your diode is not blown.

: )




> Jack Squat wrote:
> 
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I tried all possible combinations of one
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

Do you have a multimeter? You can still do some testing before buying
a new contactor.

With the key on, measure the voltage between each ignition terminal and ground.

If none of them read 12V, it's a problem with your wiring.

If one reads 12V but it doesn't turn on the contactor, you have a
problem with your contactor; either it's meant for a higher voltage
coil (24V, 48V, etc) or it's broken.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Jack Squat <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I tried all possible combinations of one ignition wire
> > to a terminal and one ignition wire to ground on the frame. Nothing
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

The contactor is an Albright SW80-398 36/48 CO. I assumed it would work for
a 36v system. Is this the correct contactor for my 3 - 12V batteries in
series? I'm a noob.

I found an Albright SW100-65 CONTACTOR 36/48 for sale at a great price new. 
If my other contactor is bad or not right for my system would this one be
correct?

Also, how do I know if my diode is bad and where do you find it?




Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> 
> Do you have a multimeter? You can still do some testing before buying
> a new contactor.
> 
> With the key on, measure the voltage between each ignition terminal and
> ground.
> 
> If none of them read 12V, it's a problem with your wiring.
> 
> If one reads 12V but it doesn't turn on the contactor, you have a
> problem with your contactor; either it's meant for a higher voltage
> coil (24V, 48V, etc) or it's broken.
> 
> -Morgan LaMoore
> 
>


> Jack Squat <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the info. I tried all possible combinations of one ignition
> >> wire
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

You would have the same problem with the other one.

When the contactor part number says 36/48, that's the coil voltage,
not the contact voltage. Your ignition is giving the contactor 12V,
but the contactor needs 36V to turn on.

There's two ways to fix this: either buy a new contactor that says 12V
for the coil, not 36/48 like you got. (The SW100-65 36/48 wouldn't
work)

Alternatively, buy a regular 12V relay and use that to put pack
voltage on the coil of the contactor you already have.

The first option is more expensive, but the second has a little bit
more wiring (one extra relay and 3 extra wire connections).

-Morgan LaMoore



> Jack Squat <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > The contactor is an Albright SW80-398 36/48 CO. I assumed it would work for
> > a 36v system. Is this the correct contactor for my 3 - 12V batteries in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

You would have the same problem with the other one.

When the contactor part number says 36/48, that's the coil voltage,
not the contact voltage. Your ignition is giving the contactor 12V,
but the contactor needs 36V to turn on.

There's two ways to fix this: either buy a new contactor that says 12V
for the coil, not 36/48 like you got. (The SW100-65 36/48 wouldn't
work)

Alternatively, buy a regular 12V relay and use that to put pack
voltage on the coil of the contactor you already have.

The first option is more expensive, but the second has a little bit
more wiring (one extra relay and 3 extra wire connections).

-Morgan LaMoore



> Jack Squat <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > The contactor is an Albright SW80-398 36/48 CO. I assumed it would work for
> > a 36v system. Is this the correct contactor for my 3 - 12V batteries in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

Morgan,

Could you elaborate on this and maybe showing a diagram on how to do 
it and how it actually works. Sounds like you are saying he can use a 
car type 12 volt relay to use to put power to the coil relay and some 
how that will give him enough power to make his 36 volt coil to work?

I am confused.

Pete





> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> 
> > Alternatively, buy a regular 12V relay and use that to put pack
> > voltage on the coil of the contactor you already have.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

Hi, There are many different types of Albright contactors but broadly
speaking they either have a secondary switch built in which you can use to
indicate when the contacts are open or closed - or not. It may be that you
have connected one end of the contactor energising wire-pair to the switch
and the other to the energising coil and hence no effect. 

Have a look at this ...
http://www.globalepower.com/Datasheets/Contactors/Albright%20Color%20Data%20
Sheets/Telecom%20Contactor%20Data%20Sheets/SW260-SW1500_PowerDistri.pdf ...
which is a datasheet for an Albright SW500a contactor (I doubt yours is this
big but it will do for illustration purposes). You can see the 'Optional
Auxiliary Contacts' at the top and the main coil contacts (x4)lower down.
You only need to attach to 2 of the coil contacts to get the contactor to
work. On the photo of the SW500a you can see the solder blobs where the 2
ends of the coil winding are soldered to the 2 double ended coil contacts.
Your wiring needs to connect to these, one wire per double ended contact. 

If you are still having probs, I suggest you check the function of the coil
by wiring 36V to it directly. You could also test the continuity of the
contactor coil with a multimeter. It should have a resistance of about
30-50 ohms or so. I'm sure you would be able to find the specific datasheet
for your contactor - just google the part number. 

Watch out for a ('quenching') diode across the coil terminals - this reduces
the back emf squirted into the surrounding electronics as well as reducing
the spark across the contacts of whatever is switching the coil on and off
(assuming it's mechanical). You must get the polarity right or the diode
will take the energy not the coil. The banded end of the diode takes the
+ve connection. Have a look here for a full explanation...
http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm . Lastly, some contactors were designed for
AC use and have a rectifier across the coil terminals. I would think it
would still work but less efficiently, so try and get the right datasheet
and (hopefully) all will become clear.

As far as the throttle issue is concerned, a quick google found this...
http://www.4qd.co.uk/wire/uni.html ... Which shows that your 3 wires are
simply a standard pot. wiring system with 2 wires connected to each end of
the pot. 'track' and the 3rd to a wiper. If you have your 36V across the
red (positive) and green(ground) wires which are connected to the two ends
of the 'track' (which is just an evenly spaced coil of resistance wire bent
into a circle) then the position of the wiper - the blue wire - (an arm
which pivots in the middle of the circle and the end touches one part of the
coil at any one time) will produce a variable voltage between 0V and 36V
across the wiper and each end of the coil depending how far along the coil
the wiper is. In lower power situations the coil of resistance wire is
replaced with a carbon track.

I gather most EV pot.s are 5k ohms, max resistance and that the Magura is
10k. So I'm not sure how that is going to work. It may make no difference.
Ok, a further search found this ... http://www.4qd.co.uk/prod/ptr.html ...
which is from the same site as the previous link. It says (under
'Potentiometers' near the bottom) that if you are using a 10K pot in place
of a 5K one you need to add a 5K resistor in series with the pot. Otherwise
you will get to full speed at half-twist of the throttle, as it were. Of
course this may suit you! But I would guess it might make things a bit -
jerky. If you add the resister, I would suggest it goes at the positive end
of the pot, or the end that has the highest voltage (multimeter, again -
unless it is obvious from the wiring diagram of the controller). It will
need to be suitably (power) rated too - say one or two watts to be on the
safe side. This will only cost a few cents.

There is a lot of info out there on the interweb - you might find that it's
quicker and more fun researching it yourself !

Good luck.

Regards, Martin Winlow, Much Hadham, UK.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jack Squat
Sent: 31 August 2008 03:26
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle


I need help. I thought I was finished with my motorcycle ev conversion. It
is 36v with an advanced dc forklift motor, a Curtis 36v controller, an
Albright contactor and a Magura throttle.

The problem is that even though I followed a circuit diagram in one of the
ev conversion books my contactor is not functioning. I hooked the two wires
from the ignition to the two small contacts (not the large ones on the top)
on the lower left of the Albright contactor. I am getting nothing when I
turn the ignition on. I have tried reversing the ignition wires on the
contactor and also putting them on the lower right small contactors instead
of the left. Am I doing this right? If not, how should they be hooked up?

Also, how is the magura throttle supposed to be hooked up? It didn't come
with a wiring diagram. The Curtis controller has a #1, 2 and 3 small
contact and the diagram from the book only showed a regular potentiometer
hooked up to it which had 4 wires. The magura has 3 wires. Do they just
hook up at #1, 2 and 3 on the controller.

Can someone please set me straight or provide a detailed wiring
diagram/schematic? I am pretty frustrated. I didn't expect it to not work.

Any help would be appreciated.
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Need-help-please---ignition%2C-contactor%2C-magura-thr
ottle-tp19237514p19237514.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

This is not correct.
The Magura throttle is a 5k ohm throttle.
My wire colors are black, brown & Blue.
Blue is not used.
Pack voltage positive is connected to the top terminal of the Curtis.
Then from the throttle.
Black is connected to the 2nd terminal.
Brown is then connected to the 3rd terminal.
shred

As far as the throttle issue is concerned, a quick google found this...
http://www.4qd.co.uk/wire/uni.html ... Which shows that your 3 wires are
simply a standard pot. wiring system with 2 wires connected to each end of
the pot. 'track' and the 3rd to a wiper. If you have your 36V across the
red (positive) and green(ground) wires which are connected to the two ends
of the 'track' (which is just an evenly spaced coil of resistance wire bent
into a circle) then the position of the wiper - the blue wire - (an arm
which pivots in the middle of the circle and the end touches one part of the
coil at any one time) will produce a variable voltage between 0V and 36V
across the wiper and each end of the coil depending how far along the coil
the wiper is. In lower power situations the coil of resistance wire is
replaced with a carbon track.

I gather most EV pot.s are 5k ohms, max resistance and that the Magura is
10k. So I'm not sure how that is going to work. It may make no difference.
Ok, a further search found this ... http://www.4qd.co.uk/prod/ptr.html ...
which is from the same site as the previous link. It says (under
'Potentiometers' near the bottom) that if you are using a 10K pot in place
of a 5K one you need to add a 5K resistor in series with the pot. Otherwise
you will get to full speed at half-twist of the throttle, as it were. Of
course this may suit you! But I would guess it might make things a bit -
jerky. If you add the resister, I would suggest it goes at the positive end
of the pot, or the end that has the highest voltage (multimeter, again -
unless it is obvious from the wiring diagram of the controller). It will
need to be suitably (power) rated too - say one or two watts to be on the
safe side. This will only cost a few cents.

There is a lot of info out there on the interweb - you might find that it's
quicker and more fun researching it yourself !

Good luck.

Regards, Martin Winlow, Much Hadham, UK.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jack Squat
Sent: 31 August 2008 03:26
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle


I need help. I thought I was finished with my motorcycle ev conversion. It
is 36v with an advanced dc forklift motor, a Curtis 36v controller, an
Albright contactor and a Magura throttle.

The problem is that even though I followed a circuit diagram in one of the
ev conversion books my contactor is not functioning. I hooked the two wires
from the ignition to the two small contacts (not the large ones on the top)
on the lower left of the Albright contactor. I am getting nothing when I
turn the ignition on. I have tried reversing the ignition wires on the
contactor and also putting them on the lower right small contactors instead
of the left. Am I doing this right? If not, how should they be hooked up?

Also, how is the magura throttle supposed to be hooked up? It didn't come
with a wiring diagram. The Curtis controller has a #1, 2 and 3 small
contact and the diagram from the book only showed a regular potentiometer
hooked up to it which had 4 wires. The magura has 3 wires. Do they just
hook up at #1, 2 and 3 on the controller.

Can someone please set me straight or provide a detailed wiring
diagram/schematic? I am pretty frustrated. I didn't expect it to not work.

Any help would be appreciated.
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Need-help-please---ignition%2C-contactor%2C-magura-thr
ottle-tp19237514p19237514.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Need-help-please---ignition%2C-contactor%2C-magura-throttle-tp19237514p19255457.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*



> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> > When the contactor part number says 36/48, that's the coil voltage,
> > not the contact voltage. Your ignition is giving the contactor 12V,
> > but the contactor needs 36V to turn on.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*



> you wrote:
> 
> >Do you have a multimeter? You can still do some testing before buying
> >a new contactor.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

Ok, I got some help from a gentleman on http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
with hooking up my contactor. I just used my 36v to power the existing
contactor so no need to buy a 12v contactor. Wow, I was excited to hear the
clicking.

I am not using a separate 12v battery for the lights, signals, etc. I have
a 36v-12v converter to install later to power the accessories.

I hooked up the Magura as you stated below and nothing happened. I ran a
wire from the positive end of the battery series to the #1 terminal on the
Curtis. The black wire of the Magura went to #2 and the Brown went to #3. 
I did nothing with the blue wire. What could be the problem now?

The controller was bought used so I suppose it could be faulty. How would I
go about checking the controller to see if it is functioning properly?

Rick





> shred wrote:
> >
> > This is not correct.
> > The Magura throttle is a 5k ohm throttle.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Need help please - ignition, contactor, magura throttle*

Ok, I got some help from a gentleman on http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
with hooking up my contactor. I just used my 36v to power the existing
contactor so no need to buy a 12v contactor. Wow, I was excited to hear the
clicking.

I am not using a separate 12v battery for the lights, signals, etc. I have
a 36v-12v converter to install later to power the accessories.

I hooked up the Magura as you stated below and nothing happened. I ran a
wire from the positive end of the battery series to the #1 terminal on the
Curtis. The black wire of the Magura went to #2 and the Brown went to #3. 
I did nothing with the blue wire. What could be the problem now?

The controller was bought used so I suppose it could be faulty. How would I
go about checking the controller to see if it is functioning properly?

Rick





> shred wrote:
> >
> > This is not correct.
> > The Magura throttle is a 5k ohm throttle.
> ...


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