# Fit questions for beetle/Warp9 owners



## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

cont' questions...

1) It appears that the latch for the engine lid will be lost with my trimming. What did you do to remake a latch or reposition the latch? A pictutre would be great.

2) I positioned the engine lid in place and it appears the top edge of the motor will be very, very close to the lid. Is this correct or am I making the measurement wrong. I wonder if I have an adapter that is a little deeper than others which is pushing the engine farther back. I don't have the make of the adapter since it was purchaced from someone on this site. 

3) Is the dimension I have shown for the adapter (about 3 7/8 ") normal for a vw adapter? I test fitted the coupler and there does apear to be some room for a somewhat shorter depth.

4) The rear shaft of the Warp9 is much longer than the cap of the RPM sensor. I wonder if I have the wrong rpm sensor? The bolt pattern looks right.

5) Probably the biggest worry I have with the Warp9 install with this adapter plate, is the rear shaft. I believe my measurements are correct and the shaft would extend out through the rear apron by about an inch. Am I missing something? It could be resolved by just trimming off a couple inches of the shaft. Has any every trimmed the shft before and if so, how did you do it? I really don't know if the shaft is hardened or if a cutt-off tool would be the best solution. I hate to take it to a motor shop since the motor is reported to only have an hour on 12 volts. Any suggestions here would be appreciated. I keep going back to the adapter and wondering if this is my main problem.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Here is an excellent photo of what your looking at. I think your fit is just about right. You might loose the original latch but there are other ways to latch if needed I am sure. With the Warp9 you also get to drill a hole for the aux shaft. A neat trick to help mounting is to undo the transmission at the two large transmission carrier bolts and let it down a bit then slide the motor in place and lift the whole thing into place reducing the install difficulty by quite a bit. Others also properly remove the rear apron so the fit is just straight in then bolt the apron back in place. With the Warp9 however there is no choice but to trim a bit. My suggestion would be to properly remove the rear apron then install then bolt it back in place. Makes for the easiest install/removal possible. Don't hack the rear apron. Do the job cleanly. 

Go search on evalbum for more on VW conversions. You will get a world of information there. 











Here is another


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

1,2) not mine, so can't help much but there's a number of builds on evalbum that could be of help. Corbin's on the list, so his treehouse is sure to have some helpful discussion.

Depending on the exact alignment it may be possible to cut around the latch and bend it up to keep it.

5) There was some thread on the topic a couple weeks ago...can't seem to find it at the moment though.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Here is an excellent photo of what your looking at. I think your fit is just about right. You might loose the original latch but there are other ways to latch if needed I am sure. With the Warp9 you also get to drill a hole for the aux shaft. A neat trick to help mounting is to undo the transmission at the two large transmission carrier bolts and let it down a bit then slide the motor in place and lift the whole thing into place reducing the install difficulty by quite a bit. Others also properly remove the rear apron so the fit is just straight in then bolt the apron back in place. With the Warp9 however there is no choice but to trim a bit. My suggestion would be to properly remove the rear apron then install then bolt it back in place. Makes for the easiest install/removal possible. Don't hack the rear apron. Do the job cleanly.
> 
> Go search on evalbum for more on VW conversions. You will get a world of information there.
> 
> ...


Interesting idea to swing the trans down for the install. I think I will remove the trans since I need to fabricate a cover for the starter hole. 

I have looked at evelbum but knowone with a warp9 and a Super described if they had to remove the latch or what they did to replace it. I am looking for someone that has addressed this on this site. Thanks


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> 1,2) not mine, so can't help much but there's a number of builds on evalbum that could be of help. Corbin's on the list, so his treehouse is sure to have some helpful discussion.
> 
> Depending on the exact alignment it may be possible to cut around the latch and bend it up to keep it.
> 
> 5) There was some thread on the topic a couple weeks ago...can't seem to find it at the moment though.


Corbin's page is something I haven't seen before.....Thanks
His Warp 9 does not have a rear shaft. I can't tell by his web pages if it came that way or if he cut the shaft. I have found some information on people cutting the transmission shaft for various reasons, but nothing on cutting a motors rear shaft.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Shortening...that was the key word...

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/shortening-tailshaft-80577.html


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Tempting as it may be you might just reconsider shortening your tail shaft. Once done it is pretty much a done deal. 

One other issue is that you may not really need to latch it because the lid won't come flying off while driving unless you plan on driving backwards at full speed.  

You could use offset pins and just use those to pin the lid down. The type that racers use on the hoods to prevent the hood from flying off. 

Just a thought.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looks like the latch is still in place just below the hole.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> One other issue is that you may not really need to latch it because the lid won't come flying off while driving unless you plan on driving backwards at full speed.


Even the hood can't come up when unlatched. They're curved, not flat so air (and gravity) pushes down, not up. They'll bang around on bumps though.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Even the hood can't come up when unlatched. They're curved, not flat so air (and gravity) pushes down, not up. They'll bang around on bumps though.


They can fly up. I had my 69 Bug hood fly up on me when it was not latched down properly. They do catch wind under the lip and up the side and they do fly up pretty hard too. You for sure want your front hood latched. If you drive slow they do stay down quite well but on the freeway its another matter. Latch the front.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Shortening...that was the key word...
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/shortening-tailshaft-80577.html


Excellent! I tried " cutting" and got nothing. Thanks for your persistence.

I believe I will cut the shaft down...that will address two problems, cutting a hole in the apron and buying a different rpm sensor. I will try to take some pictures and report back the progress....tks


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I'd like to think that is what the Impulse 9 was invented for -- an easy fit into the back of a Bug. 

I don't have bodywork to clear, but still wanted the adapter as short as possible. You might see what space you can take back there. A shorter coupler will allow you to move everything forward. If you don't plan to run a clutch the VW Transaxle is one of the few where you can cut the pilot bearing off the end and run a floating input shaft. Mine has been cut off for 13 years. Beetle transaxles seem to shift clutchless just fine, but not as quickly as you can with a clutch.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Looks like the latch is still in place just below the hole.


I believe this is an earlier year. My latch and apron are different. The outline I have shown using a marker on my apron picture above doesn't include any extra for clearance. I suspect I will go at least a 1/4 inch further and cover the cut edge with a piece of split vacuum hose. I think the latch will have to go ( I will try to save and bend it out of the way if possible). I do want a functioning latch, if only to have the ability to lock the lid. 


I guess my only question left is the question on motor clearance at the top, back edge of the motor. I just measured it again and I would be surprised if there is much more than 1/16 of an inch clearance between the motor and the losed lid. I know this is a hard question to answer unless you have a 75 super with the warp9 and with the exact adapter that I have( and I don't know the maker of my adapter ). Does anyone know what their adapter depth measurement is ( the measurement I show above). If there are adapters that would pull the motor closer to the trans, I would consider buying one if my clearance issues could be eliminated or reduced. Thanks!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

My GE 9" motor has no rear shaft and fits without cutting. Better in my opinion than the Warp9 or Impulse. No internal fan and requires an external blower for cooling. Strong motors. The only problem is no rpm sensor to fit on the shaft. There are ways around that but I have not done so yet. My Kostov fits great without cutting and provides a shaft for rpm and other assorted items. Needs external cooling too if you leave off the fan. With the fan installed the Kostov won't fit without cutting gobbs off. This is for the Kostov old style 11" motor. 


Hondapop,
Be absolutely sure you want to cut that shaft before you do any thing harsh.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> My GE 9" motor has no rear shaft and fits without cutting. Better in my opinion than the Warp9 or Impulse. No internal fan and requires an external blower for cooling. Strong motors. The only problem is no rpm sensor to fit on the shaft. There are ways around that but I have not done so yet. My Kostov fits great without cutting and provides a shaft for rpm and other assorted items. Needs external cooling too if you leave off the fan. With the fan installed the Kostov won't fit without cutting gobbs off. This is for the Kostov old style 11" motor.
> 
> 
> Hondapop,
> Be absolutely sure you want to cut that shaft before you do any thing harsh.


Glad you are happy with the motor you purchased....but to keep the thread on subject......I have a warp9 already and would appreciate responses from warp9 owners ....thanks


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Well in that case I guess I won't offer any other information that may help you in your quest to build your VW. 

By the way. I do have a Warp9 dual shaft motor. But then my VW is OLDER too so that won't work either now will it. 

After searching looking it looks like your options are limited. You can either go with the EASY fix and muck up your motor by cutting a usable shaft OR you can get creative and build a working latch. OR get a motor that actually FITS.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

EVfun said:


> I'd like to think that is what the Impulse 9 was invented for -- an easy fit into the back of a Bug.
> 
> I don't have bodywork to clear, but still wanted the adapter as short as possible. You might see what space you can take back there. A shorter coupler will allow you to move everything forward. If you don't plan to run a clutch the VW Transaxle is one of the few where you can cut the pilot bearing off the end and run a floating input shaft. Mine has been cut off for 13 years. Beetle transaxles seem to shift clutchless just fine, but not as quickly as you can with a clutch.


Ya...the adapter seems to be the one item I could change fairly easily. I purchased the motor and adapter as a set and really didn't think too much about clearance issues. I guess I thought all clutchless adapters were alike. If I find out that my adapter depth is close to what other manufacturer adapters are, I will likely just go ahead and install everything and cut as needed. Thanks....


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Well in that case I guess I won't offer any other information that may help you in your quest to build your VW.
> 
> By the way. I do have a Warp9 dual shaft motor. But then my VW is OLDER too so that won't work either now will it.
> 
> After searching looking it looks like your options are limited. You can either go with the EASY fix and muck up your motor by cutting a usable shaft OR you can get creative and build a working latch. OR get a motor that actually FITS.


Sorry onegreenev....I didn't think I was disrespecting any views. My intent was only to keep the thread on track. So many threads start out great but can wander here and there if they are not watched, and once they get lost they aren't as much help as they could be (now or if searched later). I am sure you have seen this happen. I assume anyone responding to a thread has good intensions and I also assume that most people on this site know more than I do about conversions. I was hoping for several responses from actual owners of a same car/motor combination so I could use the "conscensus" of opinions to guide me. 

Take care...


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

You could use some chromed jeep type outside hood latches or how about a nice leather strap and stainless steel buckles like the vintage cars used. You should think hard and long before you go cutting the tail shaft on your motor.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Hondapop,

Have you read my PM to you. Another thought is to sell the Warp9 with the dual shaft and get one with a single shaft. If you cut it then decide to sell it you may have a much harder time doing so. I'd exhaust all avenues before cutting the shaft. 

I'd say to many new folks wanting to building an electric car, plan your build well in advance of buying any item. Be sure it is what you want and need and that it will work within your application. This is a case where planning was not so good. Many just jump in and buy willy nilly then find out, oooops it doesn't fit or it won't work or I purchased an AC motor and have a DC controller. Things like that. Then they ask if it will work.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I was looking at mhud's plugbug and he has a super but cut the apron off. But looking at the space Im not so sure you will have a problem with the shaft nor with the latch. I also noted that you mentioned clutch less? Why? Hope you don't mind slow shifting and hope your transmission is in good condition. Be sure you put new shift bushings in both front and back too for the shift rod. 

Trim only what you absolutely need. Do not just hack off a section as you may find you can retain your stock latch to make it fit. Yes it will be a tight fit.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Hondapop,
> 
> Have you read my PM to you. Another thought is to sell the Warp9 with the dual shaft and get one with a single shaft. If you cut it then decide to sell it you may have a much harder time doing so. I'd exhaust all avenues before cutting the shaft.
> 
> I'd say to many new folks wanting to building an electric car, plan your build well in advance of buying any item. Be sure it is what you want and need and that it will work within your application. This is a case where planning was not so good. Many just jump in and buy willy nilly then find out, oooops it doesn't fit or it won't work or I purchased an AC motor and have a DC controller. Things like that. Then they ask if it will work.


 
Read your PM....guess we will have to agree to disagree....

Thanks for your input but I have no intension of selling my motor .....


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So how do you think you can manage the fit without cutting the shaft? It's actually not an issue of agreeing to disagree. I only think you need to exhaust all possible avenues and you may have in your head that you will never sell that motor but I have seen folks spend loads of time and effort only to abandon the project and sell it off. They did not have any intention of ever selling either. It is a viable thing to mention. 

Remember we are trying to help you make SOUND decisions. We have experience under our belts.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Hondapop,

What I said was that maybe a motor with a single shaft would be a BETTER choice. I sent the PM so it would not be on the forum. But at your request I will no longer make that mistake with you and leave you to figure it out on your own. 

Good luck. 

Lovely way to start the new year.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Hondapop,
> 
> What I said was that maybe a motor with a single shaft would be a BETTER choice. I sent the PM so it would not be on the forum. But at your request I will no longer make that mistake with you and leave you to figure it out on your own.
> 
> ...


You have made your opinions abundantly clear to all......


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Hondapop said:


> Corbin's page is something I haven't seen before.....Thanks
> His Warp 9 does not have a rear shaft. I can't tell by his web pages if it came that way or if he cut the shaft. I have found some information on people cutting the transmission shaft for various reasons, but nothing on cutting a motors rear shaft.


I cut it off...cuz it wouldn't fit without a hole, and it would have been a nightmare to get it in, unless you make the rear apron piece removable.

Actually, if I were to do it again, I would make the rear apron piece removable. 

RE: latch hold down: I don't have a latch...it is held down only by the springs. My rear engine cover also sits on the motor...

corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> Hondapop,
> 
> Have you read my PM to you. Another thought is to sell the Warp9 with the dual shaft and get one with a single shaft. If you cut it then decide to sell it you may have a much harder time doing so. I'd exhaust all avenues before cutting the shaft.
> 
> I'd say to many new folks wanting to building an electric car, plan your build well in advance of buying any item. Be sure it is what you want and need and that it will work within your application. This is a case where planning was not so good. Many just jump in and buy willy nilly then find out, oooops it doesn't fit or it won't work or I purchased an AC motor and have a DC controller. Things like that. Then they ask if it will work.


Just cut it. I use an angle grinder and cut off wheel.

Or...first try to make a removable apron. But even with that.. you may have to cut off quite a bit of the shaft.

I can't remove the motor without removing the transmission; there isn't enough "back up" space to get the motor off of the transmission/flywheel. I have to remove the dog bones (CV shafts), and remove the "ears" on the VW transmission, then lower it, sliding the transmission between the transmission mounts (removing the "ears" allows you to do this, but it is a tight fit).

corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> They can fly up. I had my 69 Bug hood fly up on me when it was not latched down properly. They do catch wind under the lip and up the side and they do fly up pretty hard too. You for sure want your front hood latched. If you drive slow they do stay down quite well but on the freeway its another matter. Latch the front.


My rear engine hood has never opened on its own, and it has no latch (a '69 bug also). 20,700 miles, and *lots* of rough roads and freeway speeds up to 85 mph.

corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> Looks like the latch is still in place just below the hole.


That will work for older bugs, but past '69 it won't. The shape of the rear apron and latch location is different.

corbin


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I suggested to build a latch mechanism that would utilize the original push button but use cables to latches on either side but still under the hood and welded in place under the hood so no bolts show. Nice-N-Clean. I did not realize your hood sat on the edge of the motor. Will it wear a hole in the engine lid? Or is it just resting exact fit. Correct, the engine lids will not fly open while driving. The springs do hold quite well but won't lock the lid. I understand the need to lock the lid depending upon your location. I'd hate for someone to muck around in my motor compartment. I also suggested a removable apron. It is not difficult to do. With his ability to build and weld I see no issue there. Even if its just an issue of installing ease, using a removable apron is the best way to go. The hole issue is just this. Make a hole and let the shaft show or cut it off or swap out for a Warp9 without the aux shaft saving the dual shaft motor for someone that needs one that way. Cutting is fine if its for sure what you want. 

If a stock bumper were used then the shaft through the apron might just be hidden but still allow you to utilize your RPM sensor. 

Were you able to retain enough of your shaft to utilize an RPM sensor?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

corbin said:


> My rear engine hood has never opened on its own, and it has no latch (a '69 bug also). 20,700 miles, and *lots* of rough roads and freeway speeds up to 85 mph.
> 
> corbin


It was in response to what ziggy said. He said the front hoods don't fly up either. They actually do. 

Rear motor covers do not fly up. They can't catch air to flip them up. Springs hold them down quite well.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> It was in response to what ziggy said. He said the front hoods don't fly up either. They actually do.
> 
> Rear motor covers do not fly up. They can't catch air to flip them up. Springs hold them down quite well.


Ah, I missed that! Yeah, just confirming what you all already know


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Nice to see you have so many miles on your ride. Nearing 20,000 miles myself in my Leaf. Your build has always been an inspiration and I refer many to your site. 

Pete


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> I suggested to build a latch mechanism that would utilize the original push button but use cables to latches on either side but still under the hood and welded in place under the hood so no bolts show. Nice-N-Clean. I did not realize your hood sat on the edge of the motor. Will it wear a hole in the engine lid? Or is it just resting exact fit. Correct, the engine lids will not fly open while driving. The springs do hold quite well but won't lock the lid. I understand the need to lock the lid depending upon your location. I'd hate for someone to muck around in my motor compartment. I also suggested a removable apron. It is not difficult to do. With his ability to build and weld I see no issue there. Even if its just an issue of installing ease, using a removable apron is the best way to go. The hole issue is just this. Make a hole and let the shaft show or cut it off or swap out for a Warp9 without the aux shaft saving the dual shaft motor for someone that needs one that way. Cutting is fine if its for sure what you want.
> 
> If a stock bumper were used then the shaft through the apron might just be hidden but still allow you to utilize your RPM sensor.
> 
> Were you able to retain enough of your shaft to utilize an RPM sensor?



Cool; it sounds like we are all on the same page! My engine hood sits on the motor...and it will eventually wear a hole in the hood. I have some padding there to help prevent it...but it keeps wearing away and getting pushed aside (it is taped on). 

I can barely get my tail shaft RPM sensor on. For a while, I ran with a tach in the car...but I had two problems:
1. Under load, back EMI would cause it to read 0 RPM when under throttle. To see the RPM, I had to let go of the throttle. Once I was aware of the RPM, and realized it matched my math, the speedometer is a fine RPM gauge. It is all I use now.

2. I have an older Netgain Warp Drive controller. It does'nt have an RPM input, which totally sucks, as it means it could be overreved. But..since it doesn't, I don't really need an RPM sensor.

corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> Nice to see you have so many miles on your ride. Nearing 20,000 miles myself in my Leaf. Your build has always been an inspiration and I refer many to your site.
> 
> Pete


Yeah, thanks! My latest issues (which are on my blog) were a bad cell and a tranny that wouldn't stay in second. Cost me some more dough to get those things fixed, but the car is running pretty strong still.

corbin


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So maybe an option of putting in a slight bump where the motor meets the lid. Construct a smooth bump to prevent the motor from wearing into the cover. Should be pretty easy to do if you have body repair experience like hondapop has. 

I need to go have a look at your current blogs.


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## Hondapop (Jul 27, 2012)

corbin said:


> I cut it off...cuz it wouldn't fit without a hole, and it would have been a nightmare to get it in, unless you make the rear apron piece removable.
> 
> Actually, if I were to do it again, I would make the rear apron piece removable.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it is possible to cut the shaft. I think I will cut mine to a length that will allow the use of my existing cap type speed sensor. The latch isn't much of an issue so I guess I will see if I can fabricate a way to use the existing. If it turns out that the top edge of the motor is close to the lid as yours is, I may look into " beefing up" the lid seal and add a couple " bumper stops" to keep it off the motor.

I do have you page booked marked and will use it for some inspiration. 

I think that answers all of my questions.....thanks again to all that provided constructive comments!


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