# [EVDL] LRR tires, range, lube for Chevy Luv/Pup pickup



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

-
Hi All,

I'm getting down to the finishing part of the
1980 Chevy Luv conversion. Today at the Flea Market I found
the Haynes manual for it!!
Curb weight was 2450lbs and probably taking
700 out of it. Then putting in 1440lbs of batts, 2 72vdc
packs in parallel, and another 200lbs of EV stuff. That
makes it 3490, 450lbs below gross weight! This seems to be a
great EV conversion candidate and it's twin, the Isuzu Pup.
I need 14" LRR tires for it at least 1100lbs
load rating, can anyone tell me some good choices or lists
of them? More interested in range than comfort.
Any difference between using ATF or Mobil-1
in the trans,
, diff? Stock is SAE30 or 40 in the trans and 80-90w in the
diff.
With 1440lbs of batts in a 3500lb EV, what
is my range likely to be driven under 55mph, mostly in 2nd
gear spec-ed as above? Hopefully I can do 55mph in 2nd but
will be close on my 7.5" GE. 
The motor doesn't have field terminals, any
reason I can't connect to the brushes/terminal for field
weakening?
Thanks in advance,
Jerry Dycus

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> jerryd wrote:
> > Curb weight was 2450lbs and probably taking
> > 700 out of it. Then putting in 1440lbs of batts, 2 72vdc
> > packs in parallel, and another 200lbs of EV stuff. That
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Lee, Phil and All,

-You might look at the Bridgestone B381. It has the lowest
published RR that I have -ever come across ( 0.0062) and a
load rating of 1200 lbs - in the only size that seems -to
be available, 185/70-14, which is the same size that has
that very low measured RR.

-You can see the specs ( as well as buy them) at TireRack.

-Phil Marino

That sounds like and interesting one though
pricey at $93. I couldn't find any RR numbers, could you
give a URL to them? Under the tire specs didn't have them
and different RR ratings is the info I want so I can
compare. Never found a spec button to click on. I'd try to
buy them locally to avoid shipping, ect.

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LRR tires, range, lube for Chevy Luv/Pup
pickup
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:09:09 -0500



> >jerryd wrote:
> >> Curb weight was 2450lbs and probably
> >> taking 700 out of it. Then putting in 1440lbs of batts, 2
> >> 72vdc packs in parallel, and another 200lbs of EV stuff.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

hi wander when goodyear is making these tires ? >>Sustainable and
renewable materials - such as cornstarch - are going to be sources for
Goodyear's new greener tires. Goodyear announced that it's developing a
new line of low rolling resistance tires which will not only save some
fuel, but are more "respectful for the environment," since they require
less CO2 to be produced than standard Goodyear tires. Cornstarch is going
to be added as "biologic" filling as a substitute for silicon and soot,
both of which are usually obtained from oil. Goodyear has teamed up with
Novamont, an Italian R+D company, BMW and obtained funds from the European
Life Program to develop the tires lonnie


jerryd
>
> Hi Lee, Phil and All,
>
> -You might look at the Bridgestone B381. It has the lowest
> published RR that I have -ever come across ( 0.0062) and a
> load rating of 1200 lbs - in the only size that seems -to
> be available, 185/70-14, which is the same size that has
> that very low measured RR.
>
> -You can see the specs ( as well as buy them) at TireRack.
>
> -Phil Marino
>
> That sounds like and interesting one though
> pricey at $93. I couldn't find any RR numbers, could you
> give a URL to them? Under the tire specs didn't have them
> and different RR ratings is the info I want so I can
> compare. Never found a spec button to click on. I'd try to
> buy them locally to avoid shipping, ect.
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] LRR tires, range, lube for Chevy Luv/Pup
> pickup
> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:09:09 -0500
>


> >>jerryd wrote:
> >>> Curb weight was 2450lbs and probably
> >>> taking 700 out of it. Then putting in 1440lbs of batts, 2
> >>> 72vdc packs in parallel, and another 200lbs of EV stuff.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> The 2001-2003 Toyota Prius tires; Bridgestone Potenza RE-92
> >> P175/65R14 extra load rated, 1102 lbs at 50 psi. They are
> >> low rolling resistance but mediocre handling and the tread
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I apologize if you've gotten this before - I sent it a couple of days ago but never saw it on the loop:

The Bridgestone B381 has the lowest published RR that I've ever come across - 0.0062 in the GreenSeal report. In the size 185/70-14 (the size they tested for rolling resistance) they have a 1200 lb load rating, and you can get them at TireRack.

I've got a set (the 185/65 -14 size) on an ICE Echo and they seem to handle and wear well.

Phil Marino


> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:48:02 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] LRR tires, range, lube for Chevy Luv/Pup pickup
> 


> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > >> The 2001-2003 Toyota Prius tires; Bridgestone Potenza RE-92
> > >> P175/65R14 extra load rated, 1102 lbs at 50 psi. They are
> > >> low rolling resistance but mediocre handling and the tread
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi, Jerry

Here's a site that lists the report ( click on "tires, low rolling resistance ")
They have some other interesting reports, also.

http://www.greenseal.org/resources/reports.cfm


TireRack doesn't seem to have RR ratings, but they do have load and pressure ratings, etc.

They seem to make fun of low rolling resistance tires. Their thing is "high performance".



Phil




> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 18:45:28 -0500
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] LRR tires, range, lube for Chevy Luv/Pup pickup
> 
> 
> Hi Lee, Phil and All,
> 
> -You might look at the Bridgestone B381. It has the lowest
> published RR that I have -ever come across ( 0.0062) and a
> load rating of 1200 lbs - in the only size that seems -to
> be available, 185/70-14, which is the same size that has
> that very low measured RR.
> 
> -You can see the specs ( as well as buy them) at TireRack.
> 
> -Phil Marino
> 
> That sounds like and interesting one though
> pricey at $93. I couldn't find any RR numbers, could you
> give a URL to them? Under the tire specs didn't have them
> and different RR ratings is the info I want so I can
> compare. Never found a spec button to click on. I'd try to
> buy them locally to avoid shipping, ect.
> 
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] LRR tires, range, lube for Chevy Luv/Pup
> pickup
> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:09:09 -0500
> 


> > >jerryd wrote:
> > >> Curb weight was 2450lbs and probably
> > >> taking 700 out of it. Then putting in 1440lbs of batts, 2
> > >> 72vdc packs in parallel, and another 200lbs of EV stuff.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Got this from tirerack:

"
Here is an excerpt from and email with my tire information supervisor/

Currently California is still determining the method of measurement
and rating system that will be implemented. Additionally, the U.S.
NHTSA is also working on a nationwide system that is in the formative
stages.

We will add the information/ratings as it becomes available sometime
in the future (I wouldn't hold my breath that's in 2008 however).


Alex Mouroulis | Sales Specialist
The Tire Rack
"





> Phil Marino <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Jerry
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 3 Aug 2008 at 19:48, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Beyond this; good luck finding a low rolling resistance tire. The tire
> > manufacturers, dealers, and consumers pretty much ignore the concept.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One thing that might be a possibility is that often All Season and Winter
Tread tires will come with a soft sticky compound on the first 50% to 75%
and then grade to a harder more summer tire compound. You may have worn
through that soft sticky part that gave you good snowflake driving grip and
are now down to the harder compound. I don't know if it would make a 5%
difference. I have Bridgestone Blizzaks on Electrabishi and the dealer told
me that 75% was the special soft stuff and not to run them when the pavement
temps got over 45*F or they would start wearing really fast. But that after
they hit 75% then they would be good to run out the rest of their life as
summer tires.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----


> > EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:08 PM
> > ........
> > But 6 months later, something interesting has happened. Coastdown is
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Blizzaks are a LRR tire. It's on the greenseal list...



> Mike Willmon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > One thing that might be a possibility is that often All Season and Winter
> > Tread tires will come with a soft sticky compound on the first 50% to 75%
> > and then grade to a harder more summer tire compound. You may have worn
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> >> But 6 months later, something interesting has happened. Coastdown
> >> is back to about what it was with the old tires. Overall FE is
> >> actually slightly *higher* than it was last summer at this time.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David,

<> Other factors may be in play, but the 5% FE loss seems to have 
disappeared.
> I have no idea why this might have happened. The Nokians now have about
> 8000 miles on them and tread depth is less.

I wonder if your experience might be due to the change in circumference 
between worn tires and new tires. When your tire is new, your gas mileage 
(and odometer) will be pessimistic. For each rotation of the tire, the car 
travels slightly farther then the instruments think due to the tires greater 
circumference. When the tire is worn, the gas mileage (and odometer) will be 
optimistic. For each rotation of the tire, the car travels slightly less 
distance than the instruments think due to smaller circumference.

Her's what I posted to the list 3/5/2007:

I have done some casual MPG tire testing with a 2005 Prius. Though the
testing was done on a hybrid, I think that the confusion I encountered is
applicable to any EV kW-hr used per mile tests and choosing a LRR tire for
an EV.

The Prius came with Goodyear Integrity 185 / 65 R15 tires. There has been
some speculation that the exact tire the Prius come with is different from
the same named tire bought off the shelf. I am not sure what evidence this
rumor is based on but the standard Goodyear Integrity tires are rated as
only an 'average rolling resistance' tire.

I decided to replace the Goodyear's with a close match in size but a low
rolling resistance tire. Based on a Michelin tire engineer's recommendation,
I went with the Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 195 / 65 HR15. This tire was not
offered in a 185 so I went with the slightly wider 195. I looked
specifically for the HR15 rather than the VR15. The HR is rated to 51 PSI
maximum rather than the VR's 44 PSI.

The 2005 Prius was being driven the same route regularly and over a long
period of time so it was possible to get a pretty steady average. The route
was mainly 70 MPH highway and the Prius was getting 48 MPG with the tires at
40 PSI. Over time, same route, same driver, the mileage began to improve
reaching 50 MPG at 50,000 miles. As this point the tires were worn to the
point of needing replacement.

I put on the Michelins set to 35 PSI and the mileage dropped to 47 MPG. I
filled the tires to 50 PSI and the miles per gallon climbed back to our
orginal 48 MPG. Same as the stock new Integrity, 2 MPG less than the broken
in Integrity's.

I was confident that the driver, driving style, route had not changed. The
car was not tuned or changed when we switched tires. It would seem that the
Goodyears got better the more they were used and the Michelins were not any
better than the Goodyears but...

I did a quick spreadsheet to check how the change in tire circumference from
wear and slightly different tire sizes might be effecting our numbers. I
have posted the Excel spreadsheet at
http://www.proev.com/Misc/Prius05/Prius1.htm for anyone who wants to play
with it.

What I found was that the actual miles per gallon seems to have held pretty
steady as the tires wore but since the tire got smaller as the tread wore
away, the car reported that it had traveled more miles. Calculating for the
worn tire the recorded 50 MPG was closer to 48.8 MPG.

The Michelin have a slightly greater circumference, so that the 47 mpg
reading that we got at 35 PSI was equivalent to 48.4 MPG with new Goodyears.
And the 48 MPG with the Michelins at 50 PSI was equivalent to 49.4 MPG.

It is hard to have better than plus or minus 1 MPG confidence with this
casual testing. My best guess is that under these conditions, the Michelin
Energy MXV4 S8 195 / 65 HR15 at 50 PSI were worth somewhere between 0.5 to
1.5 MPG over the original Goodyear Integrity 185 / 65 R15 .

Cliff
www.ProEV.com




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General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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