# Warp 9 vs Warp 11



## lonestarrpm (Aug 18, 2011)

A slight hiccup in my motor allocation.

Was sent a Warp 9 when I ordered a Warp 11. Cest le vie.

I can ship back, but supplier didn't have a Warp 11 to replace it with.

I'm just starting my build so I'm playing spreadsheet games now anyways.

My design is a Porsche Boxster S.

Probably a ~240V battery pack with enough to do 156V and 1000 Amps
to the motor. Soliton 1.

Figure the final car is 3000# with Warp 11 and 2900# with the Warp 9.

My goal is to get as close to or better Boxster S performance.

I'll live with whatever range that gives me as a consequence
(I figure that to get that potential 0-60, I'll have plenty for
the range I need)
0-60 5.7s, 255HP, 225ft lbs is the 3.2L Boxster S specs.

Should I hold out for the Warp 11 -- or will I be satisfied with the Warp 9,
and save a few $$???

thanks,

Mike


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Based on my everything I've read and what others have said I would say the Warp 9 or Warp 11hv are the best choices for a performance vehicle. The Warp 11 won't give you any more power than the 9 it will just allow longer high power bursts as it has more mass to get rid of heat. The 9 is said to have a more usable RPM range for a performance vehicle. I would keep the 9 and call it a blessing in disguise.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I would go for the 11". A 9" may convert energy the same as an 11" but you must have the gears to turn this into performance.... namely acceleration. You may loose some top speed based on peak rpm difference... but the torque falls off significantly up there anyways. Also, the 11" will handle higher power levels.

Bottom line...if you do install the 9" in the car you have, and press the accelerator to the floor, then put in the 11" motor and do the same thing.... you won't be changing it back to the 9". 

From what I have read about your expectations, you want that torque to get your bottom end performance. Go with the 11".

One other point... say you build this thing and you want more power (and your battery has some left to give). . . . You can put a Z2k in the car and know the 11" will handle the higher power better.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I would keep the 9. Your car should slip through the air pretty good so the 9 should meet your continuous power needs. The 9 will likely be more eager to rev and can handle a lot of power for short periods. 

If you have lots of hills you may need the 11. If you where running a Zilla 2000 amp controller I would be concerned for the 9 inch motor but all should be just fine with a 1000 amp limit.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

I would go with the warp 11 HV . You will get double the torque of the warp 9. Also you have a lot of work ahead of you, so it will be worth the wait.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gsmith191145 said:


> I would go with the warp 11 HV . You will get double the torque of the warp 9. Also you have a lot of work ahead of you, so it will be worth the wait.


+1

Warp11*-HV* is what you want...I would return the 9" and use the funds to get the *HV*.

The motor has the same rotating mass as the 9" so it has the Rpm potential of the 9", plus with the interpoles you can ramp the voltage up and push out the knee of the hp curve (the more area under the curve the better)

Soliton-1 can take 340V MAX so why not use every bit of it? Remember that the kw power is electrical power and has to run through the motor to become mechanical power and the motor at 1000A+ draw is only about 80% eff, or less...so....

156V *1000A = 156kw = 209ehp *0.80 = 167mhp <<See how the Voltage limit of the motor limits peak power?

Tess already posted in another thread that 1000A sags a 300V nominal pack about 45V, so 300-45 = 255V * 1000A = 255kw, 342ehp *0.80 = 273mhp


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I agree the 11" will give you way more torque, and that is what gives acceleration. You can use high voltage with the 11" HV and the soliton1 to maintain peak torque out to higher rpm, giving high power and good acceleration to higher speeds. I don't think I would even want to drive a car with that much torque/power, but if that is your goal... The 9" with 1k controller would be fast also, but not nearly so.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Depending on your budget I would either keep the 9" or as others are saying go to 11" hv (which really is more like a 9" motor but with interpoles which makes the casing wider).

If the 9" motor has the new brushes then you "should" be able to push it to 192V anyway. But the most I've seen is 188 (57 *3.3)v sagged to 147 under 1000amps using Calb 180ah cells [Jack Rickard evtv]. Perhaps you can ask him what he has set as max motor voltage?

Another consideration when deciding 9" or 11" is look at your gear ratios. Are you changing the rear diff/ transmission or tire size? If not then check the torque and RPM range of the two motors and see what suits best for your car. You might find you'll need a beefier clutch / transmission if there is too much torque.

Personally for my build (Audi A4 b5 quattro) I'm looking at 72S10P of the 10ah headway cells so I could run a 9" at 192v @1000 amps. This plays into my power/range/$/weight budget if the numbers I'm been collecting play out.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lonestarrpm said:


> Probably a ~240V battery pack with enough to do 156V and 1000 Amps
> to the motor. Soliton 1.


Based on this battery ... I wouldn't even go with the HV. Just go with the straight 11". . . unless u have other future ideas. Ur not really gonna use the upper voltage range anyways...and the straight 11 will give you more torque with those numbers as being the ceiling I think.

Just something to consider....


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## algea07 (Oct 1, 2010)

i don't know much about motors so i'll just go from the graphs on the netgain site. i have heard that its the batteries and controller that determine power. so you'll get more or less the same hp, but torque is what you want and the warp 11 wins. 

if you use the 11 you won't need a gearbox so you'll save weight. Whats your diff ratio? most cars are around 3-3.25. i looked into a bmw and found that i could get a 4.25 it brings down the top speed of the car to about 140km/h (faster then i'll ever need to go) and it allows the motor to rev higher and give more hp at lower speeds at greater efficiency. 

Are you keeping the gearbox? if so a 9 will be fine, i think. if you don't have it you'll need the 11 or some other way the let the 9 pump out more power.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Too be honest I'm not sure but given the same power in and the same power out would not the 9 and 11 accelerate the same car at the same rate if the final weight was the same?

Sure the 11 has more torque for the same current but the 9 spins faster for the same current thus the same power. And if your not using 1st gear (or even 2nd) because you have too much torque then you're not using gearing to your advantage and the 11 will make this worse.

Right?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

You could change the final drive ratio and have the same torque and rpm on the axles over the entire rpm range. Power is power, you can trade torque and rpm at will with gearing. That is the purpose of the transmission and final drive. 

If gearing is poorly matched to your power band you can actually be slower with the same amount of power. You see this in action when the EV drag racers play with their final drive ratios. It works the same way (with less impressive numbers) with less powerful street cars too.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> Based on my everything I've read and what others have said I would say the Warp 9 or Warp 11hv are the best choices for a performance vehicle. The Warp 11 won't give you any more power than the 9 it will just allow longer high power bursts as it has more mass to get rid of heat. The 9 is said to have a more usable RPM range for a performance vehicle. I would keep the 9 and call it a blessing in disguise.


The 11" would give him much more torque than the 9", but he is better off with the 9" with his application. To use an 11" in his car he would have to "upgrade" all the drivetrain parts, CV axles etc....


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## zeroexcelcior (Aug 2, 2011)

EVfun said:


> I would be concerned for the 9 inch motor but all should be just fine with a 1000 amp limit.


I was under the impression that a WarP-9 tops out at 500 amps but I've been reading about instances (including this one) throughout this forum that suggest otherwise. Just how high can this motor go?


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Believe the drag guys run close to 2000 amps but they modify the motor.

People regularly run 1000 amps as their maximum for stock motors but most likely very rarely see those levels.

As long as the motor temp remains cool (option to add forced air cooling) then the motor should be fine.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Sorry to bump this thread from years ago, but I am currently facing the same decision.

Which motor would you gentlemen choose for a direct drive conversion in a medium size/weight car, with a 1000A controller and 144-180V?

The Warp9 is cheaper, plentiful, and lighter.
The Warp11 will make more torque, go uphill better, and it should handle the higher amps easier and stay cooler during prolonged or spirited driving.

My decision would also be partially based on which motor would provide a greater 'fun factor,' as I would like to try taking the car to some autocross and track events.
The Warp11 would of course have the torque advantage, but from what I understand the Warp9 will have a broader and higher RPM range which sounds just as if not more beneficial.

Thus I am having a tough time deciding.
Thank you for any input.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Matej said:


> Which motor would you gentlemen choose for a direct drive conversion in a medium size/weight car, with a 1000A controller and 144-180V?
> ...
> autocross and track events.
> ...


http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp9.php
max recommended direct drive weight:
warp 9 1800lbs
warp 11 2200lbs

the 11 is 100lbs heavier though, so it is only 300 lbs difference. And the closer you get to 1800 or 2200 lbs, the worse performance is. 

I don't know if I would call a 2200lb car "medium" sized, it is on the light side actually, so you have to get into specifics, i.e. weight, top speed, 0-30, 0-60, drag, budget. Start figuring what you really want, because this doesn't sound like a recipe for autocross. They are roughly in the 3000lb 200hp category.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

dcb said:


> I don't know if I would call a 2200lb car "medium" sized, it is on the light side actually, so you have to get into specifics, i.e. weight, top speed, 0-30, 0-60, drag, budget. Start figuring what you really want, because this doesn't sound like a recipe for autocross. They are roughly in the 3000lb 200hp category.


Stock, the car is about 1300kg with a 0.32cd. The converted weight will be about the same if not less as I will be lightening it quite extremely. The drag coefficient should also be slightly better than stock.

When I said autocross, I did not mean anything competitive. Just having a place to trash on the car and see what it can do, even if it is a slug.

What I have been using as a basis for comparison is this Opel Omega direct drive Warp9 conversion. This is also a quite heavier car, at 1500-1700kg from the factory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtw54r7mBgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqIduNdG-iQ


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

fyi, those videos were pretty useless information wise.

He does have an evalbum though, better place to start.

http://www.evalbum.com/5035


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