# Calling all Kiwis!



## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey all, everyone seems to know me, but I want to know how many Kiwis there are on here.
Currently the NZ EVA has a text-based forum on yahoo groups and I'm hoping they'd be willing to try the colourful world of HTML!
So, if this thread takes off, great! If not, no big deal!

Here's some Kiwiana to entice you all:

































There. Thought provoking stuff. Come on Kiwis, introduce yourself.
(And Aussies don't count)


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Gav & all other kiwis of the electric persuasion

I hear the Call.

I am also close to getting the EV Grin. I am thaaat close to doing the test drive on the road with my ute. 

I had a bad moment when I was rolling the ute slowly around on electric power about ten days ago. I had forgotten that I had not placed the pin between the motor mount and motor. The motor was just held in the motor clamp with other friction holding it against rotation. Anyway, I applied a bit more umph than usual while turning around in the driveway and there was a loud noise as the motor moved instead of the wheels. No damage, the motor rotated maybe 5 degrees, and it meant I couldn't engage reverse as the gear stick was too close to the edge of the hole in the floor.

I have spent some of the intervening time making sure that the pin goes in, and installing extra anti-torque measures. I have used an adjustable torque arm / sway arm since it features rubberised bushes for maintaining my rubberised mounting consistency as required in the certification guideline. So, that's all in place now. Tonight I was fitting voltmeter, ammeter and State of Charge meter.

All going sweet it will be test drive time tomorrow. Once I'm happy it will be time to make an appointment with the certifier. We are very lucky in Dunedin, we _two _EV rated certifiers. My one is only 5 km from the garage

Best wishes with the listing.

Cheers
Jens


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi

Just a quick announcement -

Dunedin EV converters are having a get-together as part of a public presentation on Sunday 2pm 8 June as follows:

*'So You Want To Make An Electric Car?'*

Hear from local people who have made the conversion from petrol to electric around town driving. This talk is a practical guide to Electric Car conversion and will cover choosing the donor car, parts supplies and the essential features of an Electric Car.

When: 8th of June, 2pm.

Where: Rm G 106, Block G, Otago Polytechnic, corner of Union St East & Harbour Tce, entry from Union St East, will be signposted.

Free Entry.

Enquiries: Adrianne Jones 473 0995


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

Dammit, that means I gotta get on a Ferry just to get to the south island!

Hi, I'm Carl from Ngongotaha (Rotorua-ish). I don't like Yahoo groups, so I'll wait for the forum lol! I'm in the planning stages to building a motorsport EV, for a bit of drag racing and gymkana - want to use a Lotus Seven kit car or equivalent, drop in a couple 144v motors, a stack of batteries, then see where I end up!


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey Jens & Carl!
Two Kiwis already - we're on a roll!
I know about Jens' conversion down in Dunedin, but do you have a budget for your Lotus kit idea Carl? Where did you have in mind for the twin motor setup? Sounds like fun and you'd probably end up blitzing most of the cars at a gymkana if you got your batteries positioned down nice and low.

I'm only about 150km from hitting 1000 miles (whatever they are). In English that's 1609km from memory. I might open a bottle of, whatever's nearby. Probably a bottle of water knowing our food budget.


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

Will try and squeeze the motors inline in the engine bay - I already have a powerglide transmission, and the motors look pretty sleek, so if needed I'll move them into the driveshaft tunnel and push them as far into the nose as possible. 

About 100kg worth of batteries will replace the passenger seat for ballast, and the remaining will go in the boot to try and improve traction over the back wheels - it should handle real nice

Then I gotta work out how to recharge 300v (144v per motor + 12v accessory) while in tow behind an "urban assault vehicle", preferably running on vegetable oil from the local fish and chip shop!


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

Ha, beginning to think 2 motors won't fit ... just saw the size of the engine bay! As for the batteries, yay, won't need so many


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## KiwiMR2 (May 13, 2008)

Hi Gavin and others
I am Dave , also in Dunedin Powering a first Gen MR2 
Not going the same way as others at this time.
I am testing a fixed ratio of just under 3rd gear to see how it will perform.
Motor is in ,Pot is in , waiting for stuff from OZ Cheers


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## MaverickNZ (May 14, 2008)

Hi guys.

I'm Ryan, I live in Chch but am originally from Greymouth. I am very keen and have eagerly watched the videos. I don't have enough money for a conversion now but i would love to do it in the future.

Its great that us kiwis now have a place to discuss things without flooding Gav's inbox all the time lol.

The EV MR2 sounds interesting, I have no idea what car i would convert if i did one. I have a civic at the moment but not sure if thats what ild want to convert.


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## Peperziz (May 15, 2008)

Hi everybody

I'm Tony from Dunedin and I'm investigating into doing a conversion too!! I've been doing a bit of research lately about batteries, controllers and motors.
I'm currently working as an Electrician, and I have recently finished my M & D Engineering trade so I have mechanical and electrical experience. I'd be more than happy to come along to the public presentation at the polytech. I'd be happy to share my ideas and be happy to see what other people have to say too. 

... All I have to do is wait for a decent donor car that I want to convert to show up now...


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

Hey guys,
I am not living in NZ right now but I have been really interested in doing a conversion for a while. Its probably not going to happen for a while, but if I started it tomorrow I would seriously consider a ute, like the nissan b2000, and maybe think about some of the less radical aerodynamic mods at gassavers.org (plastic streamlining bottom of car etc.). I'm very keen at finding out how many kiwis are active or interested in it, and thinking of ways of getting that number up.

As a side note anyone thinking of an MR2 conversion could check out the university of canterbury electrical engineering conversion at http://www.elec.canterbury.ac.nz/research/powerelectronics/. One of the good things about the MR2 (apart from being mid-rear engined) is the electric power steering. Have read that some have even used that part separately for their own conversions.

look forward to hearing about all your projects. I check the evalbum quite often to see any more from NZ.

Lindsay.


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

Greetings!
My name is Chris, I live in Brightwater, Nelson.
I would like to add my voice to the growing chorus of current, soon to be, and wanna be Kiwi EV'ers. 
Unfortunately I am categorised in the later group, of wanna be, at this stage. But I have been watching EV progress for a few years now, and my excitement is growing!. I was most impressed with Gavins exploits, having found one of his videos on youtube one night 6 months ago and spent the next 2 hrs watching every single one of em!! Very inspirational mate! Fantastic! Congratulations on a job well done. I tune into the website on a weekly basis for updates, hence my visit here.
My EV is just an idea at this stage, a large morgage, house repairs/renovations and a wife expecting a baby in August is taking priority in the foreseeable future. 
I had a similar idea to 'Heretic' for my EV, a Lotus 7 lookalike kitcar as a base for the design, for low frontal aero dynamics and low weight primarily. But instead of motorsport I was aiming for a commuter and weekend funcar with a reasonable range and speed . I haven't gone too far into details as yet, I may be able to get my hands on some 2nd hand 43Ah Ni-Cad cells initially to get the ball rolling, and as for the budget ???? that depends on how much the Mrs will let me spend .... she has a firm grip on the budget ... bless her.
I found this interesting european website featuring a Caterham 7 EV .... http://www.thorr.eu/ and it sounds like it has alot of potential!
Anyway... enough of my blabbing, I am glad to see the EV infection has some growing roots in NZ! Lets keep spreading those good germs !!! Cheers!


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

Yep, the lotus seven platform certainly seems ideal for many EV users - basic platform, but still looks and drives like a classic car.


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## DRENZ (May 19, 2008)

Gav, 
Congratulations on a job well done.
a) Your EV car conversion
B) This "Kiwi" chat site
c) Petrol now over $2.00 a litre and the seven sisters will gouge us further.

I am definietly in the EV planning stage. But still have a lot of questions.
I am going to be in New Plymouth next week for a "holiday" so I would definitely like to see your Mitsi in the flesh. We are going to be staying in a Sevenway cottage down by the harbour from next Saturday. Are you free for a demo cruise on Sunday 26th?

Some questions; Rhetorical really
1) Also how bad is the EV Mitsi on the hills? (I saw your excellent Videos)Is the real solution an Ultra lightweight vehicle?
2) Here in Wellington, any commute vehicle would have to negotiate similar inclines to those around NP and maybee more so. Is it worthwhile considering AC as it can readily recharge when going downhill.
3) Is there a DC "braking" solution if you say switched Half of your supply across the drive motor when going downhill - Say 72 V of your 144V? 
4) Since you have purchased your batteries, Have you repriced them recently? I think I have seen a 200% price increase due to raw materials for plain ordinary 12V Lead acid cells.


Cheers

Allan


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## zppz (May 18, 2008)

Hi all

I'm just a wannabe at this stage, seeing the fuel price skyrocket had been making me think of an ev for quite a while but finding Gav's site a few days ago and seeing the success story of a fellow kiwi really started me thinking seriously. Oddly, the most encouraging points for me were at the beginning how he mentions his lack of mechanical expertise, and then in the out-takes where the spanner snaps showing how spiffy their tools were - I thought "hey if these guys can do it... " 

At the moment I am thinking of a gradual conversion of a Honda Fusion. These bikes are very common in Japan but I don't see many here. I'm a motorbike fanatic and they have always been one of my pet hates due to their boxy styling, but that could be just nice for storing batteries. By gradual, I mean that I would like to keep the ICE initially, this would make it a practical vehicle right off the bat, and while experimenting with e-power I wouldn't have to worry about range or getting stranded, and steep hills could be done with the ICE (it also takes care of rego issues). I commute from Pukekohe to Auckland, so once on the relatively flat motorway, just switch the ICE off. I guess my first goal would be to do the motorway section of the trip (40km) on electric. 

These bikes have a centrifugal clutch which is nice because the ICE will only be engaged when it's revving, at all other times there is no connection. So I am optimistically thinking there must be somewhere I could strategically cut into the existing gearbox, and add a direct link (via chain) to the 'driven' side of the clutch. This would mean the electric motor would always turn when the wheels do even when using the ICE, but that's not such a bad thing because it opens up the possibility of using the motor as a generator. Using a chain seems best because it makes the smallest intrustion into the existing bits, it's efficient, allows for more flexibility when considering where to mount the motor, and also allows for relatively easy modifications to the gearing ratio. Since the ICE is only engaged if it is revving high enough, it should be possible to run both motors at the same time, ie. use the electric while the ICE is idling, thereby allowing a perfectly smooth transition between the two, on the fly.

By the way does anybody know much about cvt transmissions, specifically are they completely mechanical? Or do they usually have some kind of electronic clever box deciding how the ratio should be? My car has a cvt, it works real nice but it's hard to tell exactly what's going on in there. Also, in my imagination's eye I can only foresee good things from having a transmission but most EV's dont seem to bother, does anyone know of possible drawbacks of an ev with a cvt?

By the way (again) I was listening to the radio this morning saying that trucking companies are being hit hard by fuel price rises. I think whoever first develops a network of electric trucking will be sitting pretty in the years to come. It wouldn't be so hard really, but would rely on organised placement of battery changeover stations, limiting the spread of the network somewhat. As for the trucks themselves, that's pretty much covered already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f1AlrG8gVU


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## sir (May 23, 2008)

Hello all . Pretty wiked I didn't think there was much intrest in nz . I considering a conversion myself , just have to find the cheaper options to start with , I would like to find a good little car pre 1990 to start off or a flat deck ute . Is there any one here with an electrical background or trade ,I see Gav was wearing a Transfeild jersy in his vid , good on ya too Gav nice job . It will be interesting to see how different setups perform . Range I guess Is the biggest issue for me as I live in a small country vilage .


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## funontwowheels (May 23, 2008)

*Scottish EV Enthusiast visiting NZ*

Hi everyone,

I'm planning to visit NZ around Feb/Mar 2009 to attend a wedding at Hawkes Bay. I will also be travelling around a bit, mostly in the north island though I may visit the south island if time permits.

I have been running my own award-winning sustainable transport project, called Electric Horse, in the Highlands of Scotland, near Inverness for several years. I am also the area co-ordinator for the Battery Vehicle Society, in Scotland.

I would like to make contact with like-minded EV enthusiasts in NZ with a view to meeting up when I visit next year.

Please get in touch with details of where you live in NZ.

For further details about my project see the following links :

http://www.electrichorse.co.uk/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/electrichorse/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/electrichorse/page2/

http://www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/wordpress/

Look forward to hearing from any Kiwis who may be interested in meeting up either in NZ or in Scotland.

Yours, George


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## Weka (May 23, 2008)

Hi,

I'm Peter from Wellington. I've been interested in electric cars for a long time, and I've been reviewing the web for a while to see if I can make a sucessful project. I would be looking for a car that ca be used a s a commuter here - it would need to climb 500 metres, and make a round trip of around 25k. So I need a power pack of around 10k/w and a good power to weight ratio. 

I was really inspired by your site Gavin and also by Jens site. I've come to the conclusion that I can only get this with lead-acids by converting a pickup in the same way as Jens ddi. However, I don't have room to park a pickup and I don't really like them (there is an emotional dimension to this!)

So I would rather convert a sports car - either a MR2 or a Mazda Miata. The MR/2 is the bigger and stronger and heavier car. But to make either work, espcially the Miata, I must use lithium batteries. Everything really comes back to the batteries. 

So I've been researching lithium batteries. As far as I can see, everything with them comes down to having reliable batteries and a decent battery mangement system, ideally including temperature control. Thundersky appears to dominate the battery market and their quality control seems to be mixed. And the BMS system seem to be rough at best. Even the commercial vehicles such as the Volt are saying that this is their major challenge.

So does anyone know of a good lithium battery solution matched to a good battery management system? It would need to include

batteries
BMS
thermal control
instrumentation

This is really what I need to make my project a success. Everything else - motor etc is secondary to this as far as I can see. Views and comments most welcome!


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## sir (May 23, 2008)

Hey weka have you heard about magnet motors , google adams motor or electric surge technology , they say they good to 700% efficiency . Interesting stuff especialy for generation purposes , thats if they perform that well under heavy load , could be the end of all ou battery problems , I had a go at rigging a prototype up in my shed but I think I may need different magnets to get the timing right and see if I can generate some power , who knows we just may be able to use magnets instead of an electric motor by controlling the strenght of the electromagnetic feild driving the magnets , it would certainly cut back on alot of weight .

I live in central hawkes bay funontwowheels , it is a nice area & I hope you enjoy your stay when you get here .


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## funontwowheels (May 23, 2008)

*Lithium Batteries for EV's*

Hi Peter,

Noticed this article in my local paper yesterday about a Dundee company who are producing lithium batteries for EV's

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/650931?UserKey=0

for more information about the company and how they are supplying lithium batteries and a battery management system for Modec's new electric delivery van, see the following link:

http://www.axeonpower.com/news.htm

I currently sell lightweight, aluminium framed electric bikes which are powered by a very compact Lithium Polymer battery pack ...scaled up, similar battery packs could easily be used to power an EV.

I made the local newspaper a couple of weeks ago when Scotland's only oil refinery went on strike, causing panic buying and shortages of petrol ...a fore taste of things to come !

http://energy.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/613121/?UserKey=0

Yors George


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: Scottish EV Enthusiast visiting NZ*



funontwowheels said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm planning to visit NZ around Feb/Mar 2009 to attend a wedding at Hawkes Bay. I will also be travelling around a bit, mostly in the north island though I may visit the south island if time permits.
> 
> Please get in touch with details of where you live in NZ.


Well George, if you're planning on heading anywhere near me (New Plymouth) and want to poke around the Tredia feel free to send me an email at [email protected] as I always enjoy showing people the EV and letting them take it for a spin themselves.


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## Weka (May 23, 2008)

Guys

Thanks for the comments. Sorry to be a wet blanket but http://pages.quicksilver.net.nz/arthorp/pulsemotr.htm indicates the the Adams motor is not for real.

I had a look at http://www.axeonpower.com/index.htm - fantastic site for a description of BMS systems but unfortunately they don't make them and the other crowd seem to have gone out of business - at any rate there's nothing on their site after 2006.

The best account I have found so far is metricmind's BMS, also there's another one mentioned on a post in the Technical forum but nobody seems to have one actually in production and proven... I guess I just have to wait

There's no doubt that over time lithiums and associated BMS technology will get better and cheaper, I just wish it would come sooner.


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## Zevflow (May 24, 2008)

Hi Gav & and other EV Kiwi's.

Great to meet you the other day Gav, and a big thanks for the rides in your car. Goes great, we all had the EV grin. Quite surreal actually, riding in the car after seeing it on the net so many times. You are a great ambassador to the EV scene and have given a lot of us huge amounts of inspiration.
Better introduce myself to everyone, I'm Rex from Nelson and am currently finishing a 1971 VW Beetle. http://www.evalbum.com/1675 Have changed the voltage from the original 72 volts, that I started with, to 120 volts, to give it a bit more grunt and range. First test drives this week and currently getting ready for certification. Goes a lot better, even though it is getting a bit on the heavy side. Can't wait for lithiums.

Cheers Rex


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

Hi Guys,
I found some interesting Vids on youtube last week (refer links below). You guys may have already seen them. They were of a seminar about a Californian Enterprise called "Project Better Place" which have initiated programmes in a few countries, but in this case namely Israel. It involves creating an oil free society nationwide in 10 years by putting huge infrastructure in place to support Electric vehicles! Cool! It sounds like the Israeli government have jumped in feet first if this Seminar is legit. It makes for very interesting, if not, very exciting watching anyway!, and I would highly recommend putting aside a bit of time to watch them, and maybe passing the links on to other like minded friends. 

Project Better Place Seminar, in 5 parts.
Vid 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SkSyM0IcXA 
Vid 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMpxC0QDR-g
Vid 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqWVwjIyrZg
Vid 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKCeiwrkcno
Vid 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spF618DcWkI
Also see this link, for another design idea involving battery changes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0SB5psrVCM 

Project Better Place website.
http://www.projectbetterplace.com/

Population of Israel 7,282,000. If it can work for them, maybe it would work for us!??
Something to think about..... maybe that Michael Cullen $10.6 billion budget could have got us off oil in 6yrs too! 
Cheers
Chris.


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## evallan (May 28, 2008)

Great to find some other keen Kiwis. I am researching doing a conversion. I want to do a small car (Echo, Sirion, Getz, Barina or similar) which will do most of our local running needs. I want it to have about 100km range and do motorway speeds. 

I'm thinking about either brushless dc or ac motor. I found one beautiful motor/controller but $US 20k - I don't think so.


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## sir (May 23, 2008)

Did you have a NZ based forum gav , I thought I'd seen one the other week but can not find it again .


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Hi everyone

My name is Grant, I'm from Wellington and my partner is sick of me ranting on about how cool it would be to convert a vehicle, I blame Gav entirely  awesome website though, great inspiration. 

Ive chosen to do a ute as I need one for my trade but also they are a lot easier from what I read as a first conversion. Some might have noticed I posted a thread about different batteries and have yet to receive a price for lithium packs, charger and BMS as the ones I was hoping to get aren't available and cost the earth. 

On another note, does anyone know of a website with what motors are available? Ive got to haul heavy loads sometimes but also do a lot of motorway traveling.

Thanks


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## Weka (May 23, 2008)

Grant

the best site I've found is http://www.zeva.com.au/ for motors

This guy is converting a Mazda Miata to run on lithiums using an Australian manufactured battery management system. 

There was a previous contributor to the forum who was interested in converting a small car and wanted 100km range. This is the same as me and to do this I calculated you would need a 10k/w lithium pack in a small car such as a Miata or a 16 k/w pack which would require about 900kg of lead acids - which means that you have to have a utility truck. There is an excellent site by Jens Rekker that describes his utility conversion.

My draft budget for the Mazda conversion is around:

Budget for electric car
Mazda 5,000
Motor 2300
Controller 1000
BMS 1300
batteries 10450
adapter plate 1000
engine mounting 1000
Other 1500
Total 23,550

The BMS and lithium prcing was taken from http://www.evpower.com.au/
As you can see it's the lithium batteries that are the big hit at the moment


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Cool thanks Weka 

From what I can tell they main differences between AC and DC motors is that DC change speed by reducing voltage and AC change speed by reducing voltage and hertz...?? oh and DC has more torque at higher rpm? hmm 

Was going to use an AC motor but if its going to reduce torque, a DC motor is more favorable for the amount of hills around Wellington... 

Thoughts anyone?


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## Weka (May 23, 2008)

Grant

I think the main issue with AC is that they are very expensive. I don't know of anyone who sells them, but I've seen references to them costing around 15-20k. Also as you say the DC motors have better low-end torque which you would think would be better around Wellington

The motor I was keen on was one of the smaller Warp DC motors. In essence my strategy is to save money by having a smaller car, smaller motor, putting as much as possible into the engine bay and use the savings to fund the purchase of the lithium battery pack. My main obstacle is getting an assurance that they work and for this I think I need to wait to the end of the year. Also, the lithiums seem to be dropping in price quite rapidly - the Aussie site I refer to above said that they were dropping by 15% with the next shipment. So if they drop and a decent battery maangement system is made commercially available, then I would be in. Particularly for a hilly place like Wellington, the range for even a bg pack of lead-acids on a ute would not be good and besides I don't want to drive a ute (emotional aspect!)


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## NZJLY (Jun 2, 2008)

Gidday, just another dreamer here  I am keen on the idea of an electric car, and would like to electrify my Morris Minor (well one of them anyway), the pro's I see are it is lightweight (762 kg) big engine bay to fit the motor (rear wheel drive), and no power anything (drum brakes, no power steer), the only thing that takes electricity is the radio Down side would be finding a gearbox that have syncros so I can run it clutchless, but a Datsun gearbox (120 y) will fit nicely. Will probably lurk for awhile while I get my head around what is needed. I am based in Hamilton.
One question springs to mind straight away though, is why do people put the acceleration via the accelerator peddle? I like the idea of a small lever that controls the amount of power to the wheels, or a pivot mechanism like on a motor bike. 

John


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## ADAMEV (Jun 3, 2008)

Hi Dudes,

I'm planning to start an EV conversion, it's encourgaing to see all the working conversion projects on-line especially Gavin's. 

I am considering an MR2 conversion also. Also in New Plymouth.


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## JeffD (Nov 10, 2007)

Hi my name is Jeff, 
Yes I'm another dreamer - a Kiwi living in the UK everything here is so expensive 17.5% VAT (like GST). I have also got my father also interested and he lives in Auckland. I have also watched Gav's You Tube videos which have been great, so well done there.At this stage all I can do is read this forum and watch others do.But is its great to see the interest back home is high; so well done to everyone who have started and completed their EV project


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

*"Cohen Sutherland" guy in red jacket at Dunedin EV talk*

Hi

This might seem a bit random, but I am trying to make contact with the guy in a red jacket that couldn't get into the Dunedin EV Talk on Sunday (8 June 08) due to the seats all being taken. I only got to speak to him during the break. He is from Invercargill and wanted to talk further about Southland EV conversions. I heard his name as "Cohen Sutherland", but I could be wrong.

I was wanting to speak to him for the following reasons:

To apologise that he couldn't get in to the talk when he had travelled all the way from Invercargill. We thought 110 seats would be enough capacity - we'll know better next time.
To follow up on the ideas on forklift motors and Stewart Island that we discussed.
Email me at DunedinEV "at" gmail dot com


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## Buzz (Jun 4, 2008)

G'day guys.

My names Phil based in Christchurch and have for a long time been excited about electric cars and recently EV bikes. Bit of a dreamer at the mo, but dangerously close to making the next step following some further research.

I'm up on the mechanical side of things but am still learning the finer side of the sparks and the detailed selection of things.

One thing that stumps me a bit is the supply of motors in NZ or is this more an item that needs to be imported?

Cheers for starting up the thread Gav great idea. I look forward to hearing more.

Phil.


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Phil

Concerning your question on the supply of motors, you have two main countries of supply; the US or Australia.

In the US you have a wide range of suppliers of ADC, NetGain, Kostov or Siemens motors, plus the smaller "pancake", "hub" or motorcycle motors of various brands (e.g. Briggs & Stratton Etek). The Suppliers would be EVAmerica, EVParts, KTA Services, Cloud EV or Electro-Automotive. I'll leave you to do your own Google searches. The down-side of all of this choice are the shipping costs, up to $500 per motor.

In Australia you have www.EVmotors.com.au and www.zeva.com.au 
EVMotors just carries ADC motors (8" and 9" series DC motors). ZEVA carries a wider range, including Netgains (from 9" to 11") for full size car conversions and Mars motors for motor bikes. The freight has got to be less than from the US. I have heard people say that if you are ordering a US motor, better to order from the US. Personally, I would be more inclined to order from Australia.


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## sawjam (Jun 13, 2008)

Hello

Well I've been lurking and leaching for a while, thought it was time to say hello, technically not a Kiwi but live in your fair coutry. Well I'm just outside Wellington, and have to work out how to deal with that dreaded gourge!

I've got myself a Daewoo Leganza, bonnet off small periferials off, if I'm lucky I'll get the exhaust and fuel tank off this weekend.

Trying to sort out which motor to go for, which batteries, clutch no clutch, the usual.

Looking to achieve +80km range and almost 100% on motorway. 100km/hr

Looking at the Warp 9 or FB 4001 for the motor.

Probably going to go for a clutch, wouldn't want to get into a pickle in the gourge trying to match motor speed with the syncromesh

Batteries......Well I'd like lithium possibly thundersky, but $$$$ about battery management and charging, reality will possibly be some type lead battery, but then thats going to kill my range and top end.

Ah I thought this would easy


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## Yellowkp (Jun 14, 2008)

Good evening all! 
I've only recently started to have crazy electric thoughts, I've spent the last year or so building a turbo set up for my much loved Toyota Starlet rwd of course! BUT with the rising fuel price and the fact it only wants to run on 98, I'm considering building an EV. Also I'm thinking that it will have to be a starlet, for a start it's light and doesn't take much to get it moving. As of friday last week I was given a 14hp (well we think its about that, the info has been worn off the motor id plate) dc drive motor out of a lansing bagnel forklift and the control system it used. so the project is in the semi planning gathering stage, I'll have to get another shell to use because i'v spent too much time building my other one to strip it out! 
But I'm looking forward to the build because i love to challenge myself, I guess I'll keep everyone posted on how i get on.
Damon


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

A mate of mine was into his KP starlets - really nice light rwd, but all the ones he looked at were absoluted stuffed - once you find a good starlet, the rest will be relatively easy. As for what else to do, this web site has heaps of info, so take a few hours out of your day to read up, and have a look for Maniac Mazda


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## Warren Walker (Jun 8, 2008)

hi,

from dunedin also. wanted to get along to jens talk the other week but there were as many people outside as there were inside. 

i would do a 92-95 honda civic because i know them so well and there are alot of aftermarket parts available to get the weight down and also upgrading suspension and brakes if needed.

now.

QUESTION: would a gearbox with a high final drive ie. 4.785 make better use of the electric motor? also would you be able to get more speed out of the motor by changing gear because the revs wouldnt drop as much with the higher final drive?

thanks.


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## Nerveless Ned (Jun 18, 2008)

Hi All,

I'm looking forward to the next Dunedin EV meeting as I only heard about it afterwards and sounds like I wouldn't have got a seat anyway. What excites me is that I might have finally found a use for my EK Holden wagon mothballed in the garage. I realise that it's neither light weight nor with a heavy load capacity but it does have heaps of cool (if your into old Holdens).

Does anyone know if front drive cars are ruled out for conversion?

Now the task is to get my friends who are actually mechanically capable to get onboard this EV thing too.

Cheers


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## Warren Walker (Jun 8, 2008)

front wheel drive are by no means ruled-out of conversion.

www.kiwiev.com


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Warren and Ned

Sorry to both of you not being able to get in the other Sunday. We are securing either a bigger venue or splitting into two sessions to fit everyone into the next public talk. We thought we were OK for size but mis-judged interest. It doesn't help when we didn't realise that folks were coming in from other cities in the South Island, sort of swells the numbers!

Besides the second talk, you can buy a DVD from Mike Laba ([email protected]) for $18 to get the info. We were video-ing the talk anyway for the ability to put it on radio shows etc, but there wasn't much cost in producing the video for sending out to folks. Most of the $18 is materials and postage. I would urge you to register for the second talk with [email protected] to get the announcement ASAP and so we know rough numbers.

Warren,
As to the reduction ratio question. I wouldn't dare to answer it directly. Just to say that the effective torque and power range of the DC and AC electric motors is far wider than the equivalent IC engine. So, the final reduction ratio is not so important if you retain a multi-speed gearbox with which to select the optimal gear. For me it's 3rd. But I would suggest going to the EV calculator that give a gear by gear output of torque, power and range for specified EV conversion options. Playing around with that should be able to answer your question.


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## Yellowkp (Jun 14, 2008)

Heretic said:


> A mate of mine was into his KP starlets - really nice light rwd, but all the ones he looked at were absoluted stuffed - once you find a good starlet, the rest will be relatively easy. As for what else to do, this web site has heaps of info, so take a few hours out of your day to read up, and have a look for Maniac Mazda


Yeah its kinda hard to find a good starlet, most get rooted by idiots and rust! I like maniac things so i'll be sure to check it out!


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Back by popular demand ... the Second Dunedin EV Talk

On June 8 we got the venue size wrong and had to close the doors to folks 10 minutes before the talk was even scheduled to start. We promised to do a follow-up for those who missed out. So, ...

*"So you want to make an Electric Car"*
_Hear from local people who have made the conversion petrol to electric around-town driving. A practical guide electric conversion, covering donor car selection, parts supplies and essential features of an electric car._

*1pm Sunday 29th June 2008*
The Auditorium, Logan Park High School, Butts Road, Dunedin (will be sign-posted from car park).
Gold coin entry (to cover venue hire)


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## Warren Walker (Jun 8, 2008)

so whats the venue capacity this time? a big reason there was so many people at the first one was due to the publication in the ODT and a quick spurt in D-Scene. anything of the likes this time around?


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Warren

The venue size is 300 people this time. We will be promoting it in the Star and DScene again. But, I just can't see more than 300 bodies turning up. All the same, I would probably turn up a bit early. We'll try and organise some EV related vids to keep folks entertained until the main act (Me).

We have some interest in doing a similar presentation in Invercargill in July and Christchurch in mid-August. So, if folks in either of those towns can let us know if there is interest, we try gauge the venue size again([email protected]).

And before anyone asks, the Dunedin EV talks aren't selling anything or backed by any sort of business. We bring our experience in doing our own conversions as private individuals and you can bring your questions for us to try and answer. What you do with the information is up to you.


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## coupleadays (Jun 27, 2008)

Hi everyone 
Im Peter from Pukemiro near Huntly. Just in the early stages of looking seriously, its been on the back burner for years. Im semi retired Diesel mechanic that graduated practicaly to marine engineering then to stainless fabrication,so ive had 40 yrs of engineering hope that helps , I still have tons of questions though. im trying to get a bit more of the basic info through the skull b4 i start asking silly questions
Go Kiwi


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## Mattbmad (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi there 

well strictly im not a full Kiwi yet, only been here 3 yrs, but luv the way of life 

I have now finally started my EV convesrsion, the donor vehicle has been purchased its a 1973 VW Kombi.

It needs to reach 100km/h and I would like a range of 120km, still looking into some of the options but looking foward to all the constructive comments.

Will be posting regular updates and pics.


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## forky (Jul 4, 2008)

Hi kiwi ev fans,
My name is Tony,
I'm an electric forklift mechanic by day and a budding electric vehicle enthusiast by night. I have been developing my own inverter for a while now in conjunction with doing a part time degree in electrical engineering with an electronics major. I also currently import FETs,MOSFETs, IGBTs and speed controllers for various forklift companies in NZ and Aus. 
3 Phase AC asynchrous drive motors have many advantages over dc wound motors except for price. 
Watch for further posts as this is something i am trying to address.
It's great to see so many ev'ers (pre,during and post construction)
Anyhow great to finally post someting after reading all of your posts for a while now. 
Ciao


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## pskr (May 25, 2008)

Hi all,
I am another wannabe EV converter, in Wellington, having been inspired by "who killed the electric car?" and Gav of kiwiev.com fame. The donor car is a Toyota Starlet, still running on petrol, but hoping to convert it to EV as funds permit. Plan is for a smaller ADC motor and lead acid batteries, for around town use only, with a few hills (did I mention I am in Wellington), and minimum cost being the main consideration.
Cheers,
Peter.


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## Yellowkp (Jun 14, 2008)

pskr said:


> Hi all,
> I am another wannabe EV converter, in Wellington, having been inspired by "who killed the electric car?" and Gav of kiwiev.com fame. The donor car is a Toyota Starlet, still running on petrol, but hoping to convert it to EV as funds permit. Plan is for a smaller ADC motor and lead acid batteries, for around town use only, with a few hills (did I mention I am in Wellington), and minimum cost being the main consideration.
> Cheers,
> Peter.


Hey ya peter, I'm Damon also from welllington. I'm wanting to convert a starlet too. What model is yours? I'm a KP starlet fan, had many in my time. so far i have a motor and a good source for batterys.....still lookin for a decently priced shell


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Hi Peter and yellow KP. I'm in Auckland and wanting to covert a pre power steering 924 Porsche into and EV. Looking for a donor car at present and will probably go the AC route and Lithium Ion batteries.
How are you guys going with your projects?
Cheers
Karl


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## Yellowkp (Jun 14, 2008)

That sounds like a cool project! I've only been thinkin about this seriously for a month or so, actually scored some batteries today free, the guy said the condition of them was unknown but hey i'll take what i can get at the mo! Still lookin for another shell I just can't bring myself to pull out the turbo set up I took so long to build for my current kp......which i drove for the first time after the new gas guzzler went in.....holy crap it's quick! maybe dangerously quick! lol


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## dinther (Oct 25, 2007)

Yeah! bullseye, I can post now. Been lurking on this forum for a while but could not post for some reason. This is all resolved.

My name is Paul van Dinther, I live in Auckland and Gavin Shoebridge has been a huge motivator for me to get off my behind and do something. But it takes the wife to get behind the project too which is now the case. We have now budgeted for an EV conversion and I am very excited to get started.


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Hi Paul - great to hear you are local and wanting to do a project as well. There could be some synergies in us doing similar projects so I would be real keen to talk over what you are thinking of doing.
A little background on my ideas at present;
After having my beamer nicked about a year ago I though it would be a good opportunity to buy a donor car and after some research decided on a celica for the following reasons;
1) a good glider (as they term a low drag car)
2) a budget AC system with adapter is available from Electro Automotive
3) good boot room for batteries (I would only consider lithium ion and prefer lithium ion phosphate)
But after a year and more research;
1) car has little front wheel traction particularly in wet and this would be made worse with added weight of batteries in rear - would now prefer a rear wheel drive
2) has power steering and although its possible to say use an MR2 electro power steering, it is just another conversion to mess with and an extra battery drain
3) I'm looking to keep whatever I convert so have to be happy with the donor car long term - this car does not do it for me
4) the battery area is not as big as I would have liked as I want a fairly long range EV
So now my considerations are;
*Porsche 924*
1) cheap but great styling
2) not too heavy
3) rear wheel drive (manual gearbox behind diff)
4) no power steering
5) low tech wiring - easier to integrate
*Porsche 911
*1) great looking lightweight car!
2) AC adapter kit available from Electro Automotive
3) no power steering (in earlier models)
4) donor vehicle will hold its value, appeal and maybe will make it easier to sell
but, high initial cost and batteries in front may put the weight balance too much over the front wheels (don't want to split batteries as not good for their balancing)
There is one on US Ebay that has already been converted for sale at present but it is not a runner and is a DC rather amateur job - about $6K US!
*BMW 318 - 325i
*I've had three 3 series and really have liked them but;
1) all recent models although available at reasonable cost have power steering
2) have good space both under the hood and boot but rather sophisticated electronics to integrate
3) have airbags which is great unlike the early Porsche's I'm considering
4) suffer from door lining problems sadly

*Direct Drive vs Through Gearbox
*_Direct Drive_ I would prefer but you need a pretty good torque and power to weigh ratio as well as a motor that can get high enough revs.
I have read somewhere that sometimes a clutch is preferred for smoother starts and maybe for instant disconnect (I have read that a DC system controller failure unlike AC, can lead to full amps!)
It is another way to help lighten the whole finished project and in some cases the motor can be fitted directly to the diff which sounds great although then you might want to put the controller in the boot which is not so good for either and air cooled or water cooled model
_Through Gearbox
_The usual way to do it is seems and gives the advantage of have a gear for the city and one for the open road which might be critical for a longer range EV which I would like.
*Batteries
*the technology is changing all the time and of course the pricing. But the best and safest it seems to me is Lithium Ion Phosphate - also the best for the environment. They need a battery management system which some of the battery suppliers and manufacturers are now supplying with their batteries and sometimes even building them into the battery.
They are not cheap but relative to lead/acid, over the long term they are and of course they are lighter from the get go. There is an Aussie company http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm that buys in bulk for EV car converters and say they can offer up to 40% discount for a reasonable order but as I understand it, their batteries are straight Lithium Ion which are commonly used but some say not as good as Lithium Ion Phosphate.
Just found a great website on batteries and Ultra capacitors seem like a great solution too although I have not looked into them and some are yet it seems, to come on the market.

Well, let me know your ideas Paul and I would certainly like to hear from anyone who can further add to some of my assumptions stated above. Ideally I would like to go out and buy a commercially made EV but at present can't afford a Tesla! When i decide to go ahead and convert a car to EV I would like to think everyone will want one and I will have a new line of business but even the professional Aussie Blade Hyundai Getz conversions don't seem overwhelmed with orders http://www.bev.com.au/ and they want to get set up for production conversions before they can offer the car for more like the average punter would like to pay...I would almost be tempted all the same...
Cheers
Karl


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## dinther (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey Karlos,

Great to hear about like minded people. I started to blog about my EV project but since I have not spend a single dollar on anything yet I have a clean sheet to work with.

As such I am first working out what my requirements are, prioritize them and then hope to find the technologies that will make them a reality. I try to learn from the trail blazers like KiwiEV but I sure like reading about your ideas too.

I too thought about a Toyota Celica but that car is rather heavy. A Porche sounds nice but I want a nice looking car and I am afraid a recent Porche body even if it is not going will set me back too much.

You can read about my requirements here: http://my.nz.ev.googlepages.com/home
Feel free to comment and criticize them


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## ben_nz (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi guys,

I’m from Green Bay, Auckland and I’m also thinking about doing a conversion.
I’ve been doing lots of research into costs, economics, battery technology etc … as well as the logistics of doing a conversion in our tiny garage! I do have access to a decent workshop for fabricating parts etc though so it shouldn’t be too bad.

My background is in mechanical engineering / industrial automation / robotics etc, a good deal of which has been hands on, so I’m confident I can do the work. From experience I figure the project will probably take twice as long as I expect (maybe 3 times).

Still undecided on a donor car, but I like the idea of a VW Golf (we have young family so a 2 door isn’t as practical as 4). I’m toying with the idea of a double cab ute – you could put a generator on the back as a range extender if needed (ideally non oil powered). The main downside though would be the weight of the vehicle. More research to do there...

Good to see some fellow Aucklander’s going down the EV path.

Just got "who killed the electric car?" on DVD, so looking forward to seeing that tonight... 

Cheers,
Ben


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## Hadleigh Reid (Jul 22, 2008)

Hello all!

Im in Wanganui and just about to buy a 92 MR2 to convert.

Anyone used these conversion kits? http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/ackits.shtml#ltrans

I assume it makes things a bit easier. That utube thing on Israel is really cool too.

Happy building


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## dinther (Oct 25, 2007)

Cool, what makes you pick an MR2 for conversion? I am going through the process now to pick a donor car. These are the points I have been advised to consider:



You need to like the actual car. Nice to drive
Modern and presentable. Little body work needed. Think re-sell value
Low curb weight. Every Kg takes extra power to accelerate.
Has room for some groceries after a decent battery bank is installed
And then of course all your personal wishes. 

I also find it interesting to see how most EV converters that have build an EV used DC while all people wanting to convert to EV seem to prefer AC motors.

Personally I am really keen for regenerative braking. Brake pads are expensive. Traffic lights are at the bottom of every hill in Auckland and only go green once you have come to a full stop. Auckland just screams for regenerative braking. But I like to improve the way regenerative braking works by introducing a small bank of Ultra caps. All just wishful thinking at this stage of course.

Does anyone have any tips where to look for a cheap modern car body, it doesn't need to drive as long as it looks good. On Trademe there only tend to be beaten up cars that sort of go. I suspect I'm looking in the wrong place there.

Cheers

Paul


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## ben_nz (Jul 22, 2008)

dinther said:


> Personally I am really keen for regenerative braking. Brake pads are expensive. Traffic lights are at the bottom of every hill in Auckland and only go green once you have come to a full stop. Auckland just screams for regenerative braking. But I like to improve the way regenerative braking works by introducing a small bank of Ultra caps. All just wishful thinking at this stage of course.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips where to look for a cheap modern car body, it doesn't need to drive as long as it looks good. On Trademe there only tend to be beaten up cars that sort of go. I suspect I'm looking in the wrong place there.
> 
> ...


 Hi Paul

Your posting about REGEN has got me thinking. It would be a really cool thing to do – even just for the knowledge that you’re not wasting energy every time you brake / go down a hill. It can and has been before – so I guess it’s mostly a matter of cost.

Looking at the cost of running an EV, by my calculations, it costs about 4c per km for the electricity to charge the batteries, and about 12c per km for cycling the batteries. ($3000 for new lead acids after 25,000km)

So if you’re using Super Caps to store the REGEN energy, you save cycling your batteries and hence save 4 times the cost of the electricity.

So I think there potential there...

It seems that the cost of the super caps could be an obstacle though...

Anyone know of any reasonably priced super capacitors?

Re finding a car body, you could try trade n exchange. Also car’s with blown head gaskets go for a good discount.

Ben


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## MaverickNZ (May 14, 2008)

Here is a community in Finland who are setting up a community trying to set about converting cars to electric is small comercial quantities. It is an open source comunity so all information they gather is freely avaliable.

http://www.sahkoautot.fi/eng


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## EnergyOfOne (Jul 23, 2008)

MaverickNZ - Very timely post for me 

I have been thinking about the development of an open source type of online community for many years now.

In the past 2 weeks I have been compiling my notes on this very subject. 

I have multiple concepts that I believe would knit very nicely to serve such a community. 

I am a South Island born Kiwi living in Timaru

Reading this post - has just fired me up. 

At this stage it is only concepts and It will require heaps of help and input from ground up and I would not have it any other way. 

If there is interest I will try and put my notes together and present these concepts around a 'Development community' 

Grant


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## evallan (May 28, 2008)

Another Wellington person keen! Starlet sounds like a good choice. Many of them are getting a bit old tho and I don't want to invest a lot of effort into something which I start having trouble getting warrants for. I'm thinking small 4-door - Echo/vitz, Demio, Getz, March, Logo. I really like two AC options that are available - one from Azure and one from MES-DEA. Both have a reduction gear and diff unit which means the gearbox becomes redundant. Ross Blade in Aus is the agent for Azure and is hopeless to deal with - very slow to respond and doesn't answer questions. I cant see my self spending nearly $10k with someone like that. MES DEA also hasn't responded to my one email so may be not any better. Very frustrating. 

The performance figures for LiFePO4 batteries look fantastic. I know a guy in CH who has an electric bike with some and they have performed well so far. Expensive tho.

Evallan


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## evallan (May 28, 2008)

Yes I think regen braking is worth having too - most of NZ has hills. The AC systems seem to have regen braking inherent in their design. it is harder to do with the controllers used with dc systems. You will still need mechanical brakes (Prius has regen braking but also discs) to get a warrant btu they will get much less use. 

evallan


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## DCTECH (Jul 27, 2008)

Hi all,
Im in auckland and at the early stages of researching my options of an EV, I am a forklift electrical technician and have alot of experiance with dc control systems and lead acid batteries Its great to see so many people showing an interest, I have access to alot of engineering equipment and would be keen to help out anyone in the auckland area in return for help on future projects.

Cheers
Scott


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## dinther (Oct 25, 2007)

Scott, awesome to see someone with that kind of knowledge on these boards!

I did my little call around last Friday to see what salvaged forklift
parts could do for me. There is a 4 tonne electric fork lift for sale
that has a 10Kw DC motor in it. They told me the motor is a 48 Volt 10
Kw type. I am sort of hoping the thing has a decent DC controller in
it.

I was surprised about the low voltage with that kind of power. Does
that sound right to you?
Also, do all fork lifts use PWM controllers or is it possible that
older types use those carbon disk stacks that are compressed with a
big turn screw?

Cheers

Paul


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

evallan said:


> Another Wellington person keen! Starlet sounds like a good choice. Many of them are getting a bit old tho and I don't want to invest a lot of effort into something which I start having trouble getting warrants for. I'm thinking small 4-door - Echo/vitz, Demio, Getz, March, Logo. I really like two AC options that are available - one from Azure and one from MES-DEA. Both have a reduction gear and diff unit which means the gearbox becomes redundant. Ross Blade in Aus is the agent for Azure and is hopeless to deal with - very slow to respond and doesn't answer questions. I cant see my self spending nearly $10k with someone like that. MES DEA also hasn't responded to my one email so may be not any better. Very frustrating.
> 
> The performance figures for LiFePO4 batteries look fantastic. I know a guy in CH who has an electric bike with some and they have performed well so far. Expensive tho.
> 
> Evallan


Hi Evallen - I'm considering a similar size and model (was thinking about something bigger and older like a Porcshe 924 or a Mazda RX5) conversion and wrote in the weekend to Azure (supplier to Blade) to see if I can directly source their products. Will let you know the results. I'm looking at resale value and general appeal of the EV I want and I want good range (200kms + which equals 35 -40kWhr by my rough calculations) so Lithium Iron Phosphate seems the only way to go, coupled to an AC system of 336V. I have also written to MED DEA as well so hope to hear from them soon.
It is interesting that Ross Blade, after trying some initial conversions settled on the Getz. Maybe the purchase price for a late model is an attraction and possibly there rear floor pan is large enough to be cut out for decent sized battery banks. Of course I'm curious to know what solution they found for the AC drive and the power steering.
Anyway, the products he has used appear to be reliable so are a good place to start in considering what to use.
A consideration with the MES DEA motor and controller is that unlike the Azure products, they are water cooled which is great for the continuous rating but add to the set up costs.
Keep in touch with he progress about your decisions!


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## Tank (Aug 1, 2008)

I am not a Kiwi resident... yet but in these times of change and dark times ahead, who knows. I have outlined my situation on another thread but will just cover a few things again here as it is the right place. I am living on the North Shore and I am planning on starting a Lotus Esprit S2 conversion when I return to the UK mid 2009. I got the idea not too long after seeing a Triumph Daytona changed to electric and though about doing that to my XJ600N which is in a sorry state and requires an engine rebuild. Cars are less fun than bikes but they are a far better option for a run about for my girlfriend and I.

It is great to read that there are lots of others in Auckland who are starting or thinking of converting and I think it woudl be cool to see if we can organise a meeting at a pub or have a meal to introduce and chat about our ideas? It would be great to help out some others in the area and get some expereince in EV converting rather than just dream all day.

-Tank


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## Pagar (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi guys, newbe here, I have been looking round the web for info on a better fuel, and have decided to build an EV, I have a collection of 70's Daihatsu 360 Max's one of which has a poked motor so will be using this for my EV base, am also looking at building an ethonol still for my petrol beast and to add to my deisel in my 4X4. I look forward to discusions with you along the way and appologise now cause I will be a pain in the ass and ask lots of questions some of which will more than likely be a bit on the dumb side  cheers


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## Pagar (Aug 7, 2008)

DCTECH said:


> Hi all,
> Im in auckland and at the early stages of researching my options of an EV, I am a forklift electrical technician and have alot of experiance with dc control systems and lead acid batteries Its great to see so many people showing an interest, I have access to alot of engineering equipment and would be keen to help out anyone in the auckland area in return for help on future projects.
> 
> Cheers
> Scott


Hi Scott, sounds like you and me are in the same boat here. It is good you are a hoist tech as it will serve you well in building an EV. I have a 24v motor laying around some where, out of a crown lift truck, do you think this would be a good start for my EV?


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## daimlerman (Aug 18, 2008)

Howdy all, another lurker here, it's early days for me as well, but I have made a start by buying the car to be converted, series one MR2, light and fun to drive, it needs work but I might get it running so I can enjoy it while planning the conversion, I too will be trying to do it on a tiny budget to I'll probably be looking at the old electric forklift-MR2 combo, which means I was thrilled to see there are a couple of forklift guys on the list . By the way I'm in New Plymouth so at least I get to see Gav's mitsi cruising the streets from time to time, I've yet to meet our very own EV guru, but if he keeps on getting newspaper coverage like he's had here this week he'll need a agent .
Cheers Richard


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Hehehe, You're right I do seem to have become a bit of a media slut lately, for lack of a better phrase. 
If you're ever in the area pop on over, we live in the suburb of Frankleigh Park and my mobile number's 021 135 9682 if you want to call/text. Harry Duynhoven (the local MP) is popping over this weekend to have a look at the car. He lives just around the corner and seems to be quite a mechanical hands-on person. We ended up chatting about EV's etc for some time on the phone. He's about the most famous person I've met so far. Actually no, I once connected a phone for Steve Parr (of Sale of the Century fame) about 7 years ago. That's about it. Hehehe...
Same invitation for anyone passing through New Plymouth (not likely though as it's out of the way to just about anywhere). Come on in for a cuppa and a spin in the car.


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## locost_bryan (Aug 18, 2008)

Here is the story from the Stuff (INL) website.


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## locost_bryan (Aug 18, 2008)

KiwiEV said:


> Harry Duynhoven (the local MP) is popping over this weekend to have a look at the car. He lives just around the corner and seems to be quite a mechanical hands-on person. We ended up chatting about EV's etc for some time on the phone.


iirc Harry D restored the VW Beetle that he uses as his electorate car. 

I spent last night reading through KiwiEV's website - fascinating!  

Now I'm even more confused about what I want to build (and why!).  Do I want a commuter hack to get to work, or a sports car for the weekends? Go low-budget and low-tech, or spend more moolah and go hi-tech?  AC or DC? Lead or NiMH or Lithium? Cheap and cheerful (that Charade with the broken motor), or a bit more posh (Smart Fortwo), or minimalist sporty (Lotus 7/Caterham/Fraser clone). 

Oh, I think my head hurts! 

Bryan
Swanson, AK


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

locost_bryan said:


> Here is the story from the Stuff (INL) website.


Whilst reading that article, I saw this on the side regarding the GM Volt.
Interesting stuff, the movement is gaining momentum.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4654320a30.html
If it makes it out in production before the Toyota equilivent, being the first generation it will probably become a collectors item in years to come.
Maybe instead of spending mega$$$ on a conversion, plus add a few years of savings, you could splash out on one of these instead?.
But then I guess you wouldn't have the added immense satisfaction of building something with your own 2 hands that sticks it to the "MAN" and the Bowser in his hand. 
That satisfaction would certainly make that EV grin twice as big!. 
I'll keep dreaming


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## Matt Bishop (Aug 25, 2008)

Gidday all,
Just a quick intro, in what I hope is the intro thread. 

Name's Matt Bishop, I'm a kiwi living in China and I'm just getting into the electric vehicle game. I'm building an electric motorcycle based on a 250 dualsport frame. I've got 48v, 60ah of Thundersky batteries, a 300 A Kelly controller and a Shenzhen Unite BLDC motor (3kW continuous, up to 7 kW for 1 min, so should have plenty of grunt).

A few words on the electric vehicle scene here in China. Very different from the western world, where it costs an arm and a leg to get components and is only a hobby at this stage. In the city I'm living in, every second person would own an electric vehicle, albeit a 1500W electric scooter. They're commonplace, cheap and very popular. There's also slightly larger vehicles, trikes and the like, used for moving boxes, furniture, and the like.

So, it makes for a pretty opportune place to put together a vehicle. For a start, most of the technology I need is made here. Kelly controllers is based in the next province over, Thundersky is only 2 hours away by plane (cost me 60NZD to get my batteries shipped, and I had them within a week) and there's electric vehicle manufacturers based in town (Zhongshen PEM).

However, what is lacking over here is innovation. Nobody round this way interested in making their own EV. So, I'm keen to see what other kiwis are up to, and bounce some ideas around.

Cheers,
Matt


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## daimlerman (Aug 18, 2008)

Well Hi Matt, welcome, I would imagine that due to your introduction a few will be interested to know about your project and what sort of cost for the goodies ie Kelly Contoller and Thundersky batteries. Mine is to be a budget conversion but I'm curious what 'locals' pay for the hardware in China?

Cheers Richard
- now scrounging for an Electro-MR2


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## Matt Bishop (Aug 25, 2008)

Gidday Richard,
I don't think I've got that good a deal on big items, as I'm using pretty much the same channels as I'd use in NZ. The only big difference is freight. I got my batteries (15 Thundersky LFP60AHA) for 2600 NZD, but only had to pay 62 NZD freight. Freight for my controller, contacter, DC/DC convertor was free.

However, everything in China is negotiable. If I was to do a similar project again, I'd fly down to Shenzhen and negotiate a better price.

There's lots to be saved on the small items though, cables and crimps and soldering irons and the like. I got 3 metres of 50mm3 cable for about 5 NZD, an adjustable temp. soldering iron for 40 NZD.


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## Stuvolt (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi,
New member here, based in West Auckland....

I've no intention of building an EV, too many other projects... However I run my 1.5 man electronics company so am interested in the electronics side and have some capability to build/ modify/ develop EV electronics.... What really sparked my interest was a recent article in Circuit Cellar (a particulalry hands-on electronic magazine) about an open source EV electronics project, see 

http://www.circuitcellar.com/archives/viewable/217-Ponech_McIntyre_Krahn_Hall_Kasmer/index.html

(not sure if this URL will work, if not go to www.circuitcellar.com and look for 217-Ponech_McIntyre_Krahn_Hall_Kasmer)

Now this is far from a ready to go solution but provides some interesting ideas and a good starting point. Note that this is a DC to AC converter based solution, there's still lots to be done but..... I maybe interested in working in collaboration with others to develop this, we have software, hardware and mechanical capabilities...

Thoughts?

ON ON Stuvolt


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## Bartman (Aug 30, 2008)

I have started the process of designing a system for an electric car.My requirements are 100 km range 40 kph top speed.looking at using a 1999 Ford Ka or 1995ish Ford Festiva donor car.At this stage looking at buying a kit from US for 3K USA which has everything but batteries.Looking at using 12 6 volt deep cycle batteries .Any comments or advice ?


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey bartman! Your goals seem doable from what I've seen on evalbum.com. One question though, did you mean a top speed of 140km/h?


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## Bartman (Aug 30, 2008)

No just 40 kph or maybe 50.We live in central Auck and do a lot of short running around trips.I own several vehicles in my business so can use them for going out of town.Do you know of any kits out of Oz or any component suppliers(ie motors)Would be much easier to source from there if need be.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Bartman said:


> No just 40 kph or maybe 50.We live in central Auck and do a lot of short running around trips.I own several vehicles in my business so can use them for going out of town.Do you know of any kits out of Oz or any component suppliers(ie motors)Would be much easier to source from there if need be.


Ok gotcha. Try www.zeva.com.au - I've bought things off them before with no hassles. Although the Chinese contactor I bought from them used to stick. One I used a Albright contactor the problem vanished completely. It pays to be wary of Chinese components for EVs, well, _essential_ components anyhow.


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## hlodewyk (Aug 30, 2008)

Hi everybody

My name is Hendrik and live in Westport on the West coast. I am a heavy earthmoving diesel mechanic, and want the EV grin badly too. At the moment I am concentrating on power generation to charge the EV. Is there someone out there that can give an opinion on the following batteries? http://www.lithiumtech.com/602050HE.pdf . Would they be good for an EV, and power generation?


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## daveinsingapore (Jul 17, 2008)

Matt Bishop said:


> Gidday Richard,
> I don't think I've got that good a deal on big items, as I'm using pretty much the same channels as I'd use in NZ. The only big difference is freight. I got my batteries (15 Thundersky LFP60AHA) for 2600 NZD, but only had to pay 62 NZD freight. Freight for my controller, contacter, DC/DC convertor was free.
> 
> However, everything in China is negotiable. If I was to do a similar project again, I'd fly down to Shenzhen and negotiate a better price.
> ...


Hi fellow Kiwis....I live in Singapore, have been here since 2005, came here for a month long project and decided to stay. Wanna say hi to Matt up there in China...my day time job is a Architect specializing in earthquake proof housing and we have tonnes of work up in China...I will be up there often over the next couple of years, now that the Olympic Games are over.....(or are they)..and would like to catch up with you and get contacts for supplies...

Ok back to introductions, I am from Orkland city originally but spent 25 years in Hamilton and recall the days of rebuilding cars and running them on CNG..remember the days guys, well Singapore has just started CNG here..what a laugh...remember what CNG stood for...Cars No Good....lol any way I am a EV wannabe too...I have put a Hydrogen generator in our family Mitsi wagon..and gone from 450 km to the tankfull to 650 km...using a simple 555 timer to trick the oxy sensor....meanwhile I am working on a E Scoot.....with a hub motor in a 6 inch wheel...basically a BLDC measuring 100mm shoved in a hollowed out wheel, on what was a kick scooter, so I can commute from the apartment block to the train...the local MRT that runs so efficiently, but never goes where you really want to go....unlike the northwest line in Auckland that always went when and only when it wants and always in the same direction.....lol...anyway the E scoot is to fill in the bits between train stations and every thing else and also gives me some wind in my hair....had to give up the 650 Yamaha last year cause the wife did not like the way I drove.....up the white line....all the time...that scared her....
Any way all is going well with the E Scoot, but I also have the idea of building a bigger size scooter....a bit like the 125cc Yammy or so...something that can get me thru town with speed..and no gas...just good ev power, so that motor you have Matt is quite interesting...

At some time in the future I want to convert a Toyota Litace Van, using a 8inch DC motor and all the batteries I can afford..to give me a work vehicle again so I can leave the Hydro assisted car for the missus...yeah as for the chinese people up there Matt...understand this....as a people they are not inventive...most of their new products are copies of other peoples inventions....often made badly but always more cheaply....even here in Singapore...there is not a lot of natural curiosity as to how things works....they rarely fix things...they just go buy another one and blow that one up too...

talking of which I struck gold today, was wondering what were my chances of getting a F&P motor out of a washing machine to see what could be done with one beside making it into a generator....

anyway on the way home tonite I saw one dumped in the trash corner of my apartment and without hesitating got my tools from my apartment and pulled that bugger apart in 5 minutes flat....I now have a 60S motor that is like those smaller BLDC we use in R/C planes and stuff, just bigger in diameter, it measures 250mm across the armature and 280mm outside the rotor and uses weaker magnets than those high powered smaller BLDC, any way I am going to find a controller like the ones the crystalite motors use, the F&P used 'Hall sensors' and see what speed and power it has...with what ever voltage ...just to see...by the way guys,I have three trades, fitter/turner/toolmaker, ETS -(electrical service technician), and Architect with a keen sense of direction around electronic stuff as well.

any way catch you guys later and Matt I will be in touch ok...cheers to all you Kiwi Icons....go the All Blacks...and the Warriors...lol


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## locost_bryan (Aug 18, 2008)

daveinsingapore said:


> talking of which I struck gold today, was wondering what were my chances of getting a F&P motor out of a washing machine to see what could be done with one beside making it into a generator....
> 
> I now have a 60S motor that is like those smaller BLDC we use in R/C planes and stuff, just bigger in diameter, it measures 250mm across the armature and 280mm outside the rotor and uses weaker magnets than those high powered smaller BLDC, any way I am going to find a controller like the ones the crystalite motors use, the F&P used 'Hall sensors' and see what speed and power it has...with what ever voltage ...just to see...by the way guys,I have three trades, fitter/turner/toolmaker, ETS -(electrical service technician), and Architect with a keen sense of direction around electronic stuff as well.


The EcoInnovations website has a downloadable pdf of the results of their experiments with these motors as generators. May give you some clues about the possibilities.


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## daveinsingapore (Jul 17, 2008)

locost_bryan said:


> The EcoInnovations website has a downloadable pdf of the results of their experiments with these motors as generators. May give you some clues about the possibilities.


yeah gotcha locost bryan, have been following wot the boyz at ecoinnovations have have been doing for almost a year now...and yes have all the data they collected on turning these motors into generators...am a greenie at heart....used to go to Waiheke island just to have breakfast at cafe's that generated their own power using F&P windmills, just to feel good about my gas guzzling Falcon parked at the ferry terminal at Auckland...lol...

nah this time I want to see what can be done to use the 60S as it is, with perhaps a change of windings..either configured differently or totally rewound to give me a hub motor design ...may even change the magnets later on...any way just listing my wishes right now to see if any one else has a similar thought....

ciao for now....bryan....all the best with your projects too...


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## locost_bryan (Aug 18, 2008)

daveinsingapore said:


> nah this time I want to see what can be done to use the 60S as it is, with perhaps a change of windings..either configured differently or totally rewound to give me a hub motor design ...may even change the magnets later on...any way just listing my wishes right now to see if any one else has a similar thought....


I've been wondering what the F&P motor's potential was for EV use. Wondered if you could join them in multiples on a common shaft to give a more powerful motor for a bigger bike or in-wheel motors for a car?


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## CrunchTime (Feb 13, 2009)

So.

Nothing since September? Has everybody packed up their EV's and gone home? 

Anyway - Andrew here, in Lower Hutt.

Got the bug a few weeks ago (funny - I can't remember why I thought of converting a car - I know Gav's site had something to do with it, though - well done, dude!). Since then I've been obsessed (ask my wife and workmates!)...

Probably going to end up doing a BMW E36 318i, if my workmates have anything to do with it - since they have 3-4 BMW's between them, it's likely to be easier to get info needed (wiring etc), as well as mechanical assistance (especially with the destructive part!). Just have to convince the Wife that a BMW isn't so bad once it's electric 

If it's a BMW, it'll probably be a Fb1-4001A, Curtis whiner, and 500kgs or so of Trojan T1275's. I want this thing to take me to work in Wellington and back each day, with an overnight recharge. Any comments?

Otherwise, maybe some Toyota or another...

Has anybody had any luck sourcing other bits from within NZ? I saw http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/substitute-new-zealand-sourced-ev-components-26544.html

The exchange rate's a b***h, aint it? 

Andrew


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## MaverickNZ (May 14, 2008)

The BMW sounds like a great idea. Just imagine how smug you would feel driving the motorway with all those polluting petrols and diesels next to you.


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## Hadleigh Reid (Jul 22, 2008)

Yo!

I was really amped up mid last year. I ordered a warp 9 motor and a zilla controller from the states in August. And was still waiting until a fortnight ago when i canceled them. Very frustrating. I ordered them when the dollar was strong and now it sucks. I made $300 from the refund on my zilla deposit. Ill reassess things later if all the car companies havent put their own ones out by then. Im hoping Better Place comes here soon.

Go hard if u can


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi,
I am a recent member based in Southlands (Gore) (Originally from Scotland)
I have been lusting after an electric car for years but I am only just beginning to get some hardware, I purchased an old Clark forklift - two motors neither of much use,
the pump motor has a female spline driveshaft and the traction motor is a bit puny
Then I got (for scrap price) a Hitachi 10KW 48v from a Nissan forklift - much better
I plan on a Lotus 7 type car with Lithium batteries
By the time I'm ready for the batteries I hope they are cheaper and the exchange rate is better

Anybody want my old DC motors?


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## rwt33 (Dec 4, 2008)

I am loving how much EVers there are NZ! You guys make me tingle with excitement! Good on you NZ!
I'm well into the development stage of my first MR2 ev conversion. Doing all the electrics in the workshop first (batteries+management, charger, aux supplies, dual lcd displays, motor+controller etc) then it's MR2 stripping time

Lets keep the ball rolling!

Robert Turner
Napier


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Andrew

There is a conversion blog on a high spec BMW at the following site:

www.evdrive.com/*BMW*_project/Project*BMW*.html

The project involves an AC drive and LiFePO4 battery pack, so it fairly pricey. But the description and photos might give you ideas for your own DC / lead acid project.


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## CrunchTime (Feb 13, 2009)

Thanks for the link, Jens... You're right - it's a tad out of my price range 
The more examples of successful conversions I have the better - it all helps keep the motivation up!


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## jimbo-m (Mar 10, 2009)

Gidday Gidday,

I'm a mechanic from wellington. I have got 2 EV projects on the go at the mo'

I have finished the bulk of my motorbike; a 2006 Suzuki GZ 250. I have done very little planning and just ripped into it.  This is the tester I figured start small; a motorbike!

I have managed to fit a D&D systems 10hp motor (40hp in fry mode). This is double the power output of the old ICE. I do not need a gearbox or clutch as the torque of the old motor (18Nm) is just jokes compared to the 100+ Nm of the new electric beastey. 

I have fabricated the battery racks and fitted 6 x 33Ah gel cell lead acid batteries (commander gel cell via century batteries) in series for 72V.

The controller is an alltrax 7245 and fits nicely under the fuel tank, which I took pleasure in gutting . I have also found a place under the bike for a 72VDC-12VDC converter... Bikes dont have much room for stuff.

I have used my trusty gas welder for the non structural stuff but am now saving for a MIG welder to do the engine mount and frame welding (Will fail wof if frame steel is heated ).

Am hoping for 20km range and 120km/h top speed with tendon wrenching acceleration from this project.

Other Project is a 1962 morris ute. Total weight without tray is approx 650kg. Have nearly completed rust repair. Have reconditioned the master cylinder and have fabricated new brake lines... The wheel cylinders have seized however so they'll be next...


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi all,

I'm from Lower Hutt, Wellington, still in the planning stage at the moment but I do have a trademe bid on a potential donor car atm 

I plan on converting a Ford Courier/Mazda B2000 with the extended cab. The extended cab is important because I want to put the LiPo batteries there in a similar way to the EvCapri car - under the rear seats. Motor wise, I'm looking at the Netgain Warp 9 coupled with the Logisystems controller. Although the Synkromotive controller does look good to with its usb connectivity... I'm a computer programmer which is why thats appealing  Overall, my aim is to have a daily commuter that will easily handle the 30km drive from the Western Hutt Hills to Wellington and back... 

I do plan on blogging my progress too in some way, I've found EV blogs to be inspirational, I don't think I would of come this far if it wasn't for the likes of Gav and Kearon and many others 

Pete.
evlowrider


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## Hadleigh Reid (Jul 22, 2008)

Cool. I just picked up my WarP 9 from Wellington yesterday, think i was lucky to get out of there! I have got a 1000a Logisystems too. Just placed my order for LFP cells through evsource in the states. Should be fun, hopefully my MR2 will fly ;-)


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Great to hear your project is underway again Hadleigh! What size and number of batteries did you order?


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## Hadleigh Reid (Jul 22, 2008)

Actually it was evcomponents.com. I got 50 x 100AH sky energy cells. Should get things moving ;-) They have just done a big order but i guess they do a few every now and again. All the best


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi All

I know there's a few people around the country busy on their conversions, I'd like to hear what others are doing especially if your in Wellington :0 Its always good to see what others are doing for ideas etc..

I'm converting a 1998 MX5 now, took it in this week to get the A/C refridgerant removed and i'll be starting to remove the ICE this weekend. I have ordered all my major EV items too, so just waiting for them to arrive.

One last thing, does anyone have a good cheap source for buying cable? i was quoted something like $67 per metre for 95mm^2 cable from a electrical trade shop... which seems expensive considering its actually cheaper for me to buy the same stuff from Australia and have it shipped here!

Pete.


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi evlowrider, make sure (if you haven't already) look through Ian Hooper's MX5 conversion:

http://www.evworks.com.au/vehicles.php?id=1

http://www.zeva.com.au/conversion_blog.php?vehicle=1

For battery cable, I used second hand 70 mm2 welding cable. I picked it up from a scrap merchant for the cost of the copper. The cable has the standards and specifications embossed on the insulation so you can quote them to your certifier. What you should be looking for is at least 600V potential rating, preferably double sheathed flexible cable. Welding cable is perfect.


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

Jens Rekker said:


> Hi evlowrider, make sure (if you haven't already) look through Ian Hooper's MX5 conversion:
> 
> http://www.evworks.com.au/vehicles.php?id=1
> 
> http://www.zeva.com.au/conversion_blog.php?vehicle=1


Yes, I've read his blog, it's definately been helpful. I am getting my BMS and other bits and pieces from Ian in fact.

Thanks for the tips on the cable.

Pete.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Hi Pete

I'm in Wellington as well but far from starting, I just annoy everyone here with stupid questions... 

Will you be posting a build thread?

Grant


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

Grant_NZ said:


> Hi Pete
> 
> I'm in Wellington as well but far from strating, I just annoy everyone here with stupid questions...
> 
> ...


Yea I'll post a build thread once I have some pics etc


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

evlowrider said:


> One last thing, does anyone have a good cheap source for buying cable? i was quoted something like $67 per metre for 95mm^2 cable from a electrical trade shop... which seems expensive considering its actually cheaper for me to buy the same stuff from Australia and have it shipped here!
> 
> Pete.


I got my cable reasonably priced from BOC Gas & Welding Supplies. They seem to be all over the country so give them a call for a quote. 
If you know anyone who knows anyone who has an account with them you might get a bigger discount than just paying cash.
Good luck!


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

KiwiEV said:


> I got my cable reasonably priced from BOC Gas & Welding Supplies. They seem to be all over the country so give them a call for a quote.
> If you know anyone who knows anyone who has an account with them you might get a bigger discount than just paying cash.
> Good luck!


Cheers Gav, didn't occur to me that BOC would have cable, I need to visit them to get a argon gas bottle for my TIG welder so i'll check it out.

Thanks,


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## Kiwi (Jul 8, 2010)

*Introduction, Daryl (Kiwi)*

Hi, Daryl here,

I am in Upper Hutt.
I have a small business converting cargobikes to electric. Also as an electric scooter repairer. 

I am about to start reselling electric bike components and small lithium batteries. (10 - 30ah 24 - 60v 3C cont, 5C peak), suitable for bikes and scooters. I do sell them already, but just setting up a website.

I am an industrial designer by trade.

I can offer to the community 3D cad services like drawing up conversion plates and battery trays, and am a sheet metal engineer too.

Converting our car is defiantly on the list of things to do, but funds are being channeled into the bike business at the moment.

I feel stink driving our ICE, but my goals are to develop small e vehicles (cargobikes and trikes) because I feel they are more in reach to more people, and an easier way to transition away from ICE's.

However, I would like to move towards motorcycle conversions, and if it feels right, car conversions if the business grows.

It is a bit early for a successful car conversion business, but only just.
I am open to discussions to those business minded individuals who think about the possibility of being part of a conversion business.

Also being and industrial designer am keen to work on EV projects for business, or individuals with loads of cash and not enough time!

Some parts I import that would be useful to car EVers, are watt usage computers, (high current cycle analyst) and 100w 36 -48 to 12v dc motorcycle converters. 

I hope to meet everyone at a Wellington "club day" soon.

Daryl

My website is in build and not on line, my url www.evlab.co.nz currently points to my cargobike business.


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Someone might be interested in this small PDL AC Controller on TradeMe
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=306992933
Guy does not know the exact size as I asked him on previous listing, likely to be just a few kW.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi, the answer to yr kwestion is obvious; sex hundred and sexty sex; All speaking the Kiwi motherland tongue; "heybro" ehbro? Perhaps the question should have been " How many are still on the correct side of the ditch?" Don't forget the underarm.
Luv youse all ;Jeff.


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## shrapnel (Dec 27, 2010)

Hi Guys and Gals

Shayne here , but most call people know me as Shrapnel 

The EV thing is something thats kind of on my mind from time to time , but more so of recent times. Probably because I see how much the wife and I are spending on fuel getting to and from work , , , and to be honest , 'Its Outta Control" . We're averaging $140.oo to $200.oo per week .
We're 25ks from Palmy and have no intention of buying in the suburbs.

At this point I'm keen to know more about the EV movement and how cost effective it can be. If I do decide to covert a A-B runabout , I'll be doing a 50k round trip (to and from work) of which 30 -35ks will be at 100k. I could afford to drop speed to 80ks for about 20ks round trip distance , but there is between 10 & 15 ks where I'd need to be doing 100k or get mowed down by the Heavy Trade traffic 

I'll be one who crop's up here asking the "dumb" questions. Electronically minded I'm not , but ask me to cut , weld and shape some metal , , , bring it on .

Plans for now ? Well , the wife and I are in the middle of converting a small "old country school" building into a home so most funds are going in that direction. 
Converting an EV sounds like a challenge. The cost of doing so (excluding the car) appears more costly that I'd imagined . 

So anyway , yeah thats me saying hello , and I look forward to learning some more.

Shrapnel


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## badlittlemonkey (Dec 28, 2010)

ELLO one and all....

Well I'm a EV newbie and have had a little chat with the old girl and yes she has given me the go ahead to start a little EV project of my very own YES!!!

We live in Marton and now I'm on the look out for a car and electric motor to start with would a forklift motor be a good option for me?

Another Idea I am working on is a permanent magnet generator (PMG) I would like to work out a way to use one on my car to charge the battery pack and/or run the car on long distance travel.

Permanent magnet generator just a few links

http://www.alxion.com/bin/e_eoliennes.html

http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/7274167/1kw_to_6kw_high_speed_permanent_magnet_generator_1500rpm_3000rpm_4500rpm.html

OH where to start where to start.....


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Monkey,

What are you going to use to drive your generator?
You do realize that you need another prime mover to drive it? (diesel/petrol/LPG engine)
Don't say you are going to drive it off the wheels or I will have to come over and smack you with a wet fish

Motors

See if you can find a forklift service agent nearby and go to see him clutching dollar bills,
Motors out of scrap forklifts are scrap metal money

I got a lovely 11 inch diameter Hitachi that had just been rebuilt for $100 in Invercargill


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## badlittlemonkey (Dec 28, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Hi Monkey,
> 
> What are you going to use to drive your generator?
> You do realize that you need another prime mover to drive it? (diesel/petrol/LPG engine)
> ...


Hi Duncan

Thanks for the ideas

I am off to a Forklift shop tomorrow while I'm in Hamilton to see whats in stock, so you got a 11 inch diameter hitachi for $100 how much does it weigh and what kind of car have you got it in if ya don't mind me asking.

Now gets ready to be hit by a wet fish, everyone I have talked to have mention that a PMG needs a fuel power motor to power it *cough* *cough* which I find just a load of bullocks, if it can be powered by wind and water why cant I run it off the drive shaft or have a drive shaft made and geared off the running gear even if I have to increase power to the shaft?

I have yet to pop in to a precision engineering to see what gearing they can come up with and how I can run the PMG, o.k I am a newbie but I think I can stall make this work 

*ducks*

P.S I was thinking a Nissan pulsar for the car should it be auto or manual?
because im going to re do the suspension, breaks and gear box first.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

badlittlemonkey said:


> Now gets ready to be hit by a wet fish, everyone I have talked to have mention that a PMG needs a fuel power motor to power it *cough* *cough* which I find just a load of bullocks, if it can be powered by wind and water why cant I run it off the drive shaft or have a drive shaft made and geared off the running gear even if I have to increase power to the shaft?


Well,










OK, Serious now.
I read your other post on the PM unit and couldn't figure out what the question was.

Anyway, if you are looking to drive a car using an electric motor powered by batteries and you want to use the generator to charge the batteries while you drive then, sure, you can set that up.
However, it would be a bit like standing at the back of a sail boat waving a fan at the sails in attempt to blow the boat along, or levitating by pulling yourself into the air by your boot straps.

The generator imposes an additional load on the drive train that needs to be overcome by the drive motor. The additional energy that uses far exceeds the energy that the generator will generate. The laws of conservation of energy also means that you will never get more out then you put in and usually considerably less due to system losses.

The easy experiment to see this effect is to get a couple of toy motors, the sort that you can get from your local Maplins or Radio Spares outlet for making models.
If you wire them together then when you spin one motor by hand the otehr will also spin a little as you are using the first motor to generate electricity to power the second motor.
Now, if you were to join the shafts of the motors you will have, in theory, the motor driing the generator powering the motor driving the generator powering the motor.....

You will very quickly see that it doesn't.
That would be the same situation you will get if you add a generator to your EV and expect to generate as you drive.

Now, regen is another issue altogether.
You could use the PM generator to recharge the batteries when going down hill or coasting. That works.
The downside is that it acts like a brake slowing you down, great if you are decending a long hill but in the day to day flat road driving you may not want that brake acting on your EV.
It may be more effective and energy saving to not have regen and drive using a 'pulse and coast' method. That is where you apply a little power to get eh EV moving and then coast. It is surprising how far an EV can coast without any power at all. That is free travel, well, free'er then trying to put that kinetic energy back into your pack due to losses.
Using pulse an coast may, for example, extend your range by, say, 10 miles. Using regen may only extend that same example range by 1 mile.

The reason is that regen slows you down so you have power along further and more often and also drag the weight of the generator around and suffer the energy losses from regen anyway.
Also the cost of the generator and regen system could be spent, instead, on extra pack size giving more energy to start with saving the need for regen.

How does that sound?

So, to recap.
Powering a generator while driving gets you a wet fish.
Regen only works sometimes and often isn't worth the extra weight, drag and also cost for most driving unless you have long hills to drive on.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Monkey

Woodsmith has said it all,

When I was a kid I tried to make a mechano car with the front wheels geared to the back but faster - so when I pushed it would accelerate away - didn't work!

Anything you take out of your system (with a generator) has to be replaced by the motor at a *bad* payback ratio (efficiencies in both systems)

my car - not yet complete 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-dubious-device-44370p2.html?highlight=duncan

Read at least the start of this thread
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html


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## badlittlemonkey (Dec 28, 2010)

Woodsmith said:


> Well,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMAO love the pic

Very very interesting little read there Mr Woodsmith thanks for that, well Its only a idea I would like to try and is a work in practice I'm no where near that part of the project 

_*The easy experiment to see this effect is to get a couple of toy motors, the sort that you can get from your local Maplins or Radio Spares outlet for making models.
If you wire them together then when you spin one motor by hand the otehr will also spin a little as you are using the first motor to generate electricity to power the second motor.
Now, if you were to join the shafts of the motors you will have, in theory, the motor driing the generator powering the motor driving the generator powering the motor.....*_

I do find this little experiment a little out of sorts where yes if you use two motors that have lets say do use the same amps they would counter each other but lets say one motor used say 10 amps and the other made 15 amps would there still not be an excess of amp-age, I would not have a clue because being a Newbie to this I think I will just have a play with getting a EV on the road and work on a generator later just to see what happens 

oh and Happy 'NEW YEAR' may the new year be better than the last 

*ducks*

http://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternators/altspec2.shtml#Top

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yti-GQa5n0I


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## badlittlemonkey (Dec 28, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Hi Monkey
> 
> Woodsmith has said it all,
> 
> ...




Yes many many moons ago I did the same kid of experiments Lmao and I think I might have landed on my head a few times too.

Thanks for the links I don't like the first one because well err um you are going great guns light years ahead of me,  oh to have a workshop like the one you have *cry* but I guess I have to count my lucky stars, A few friends have offered their workshops up for me to play in.

That last thread on FL motors is what I have been looking for great one thanks a lot 

Well HAPPY NEW YEAR, may the next one be better than the last...


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## OrewaEV (Nov 6, 2010)

Hi Gav,
I have watched your progress with the Mitzy and this inspired me to do some research last year. My project is still only on paper awaiting a donnor car. Its looking like a Celica maybe a good option for me and I have just found a guy (Peter) in South Auck. who has done such a conversion. Hope to get more info from his experience in the coming months to allow me to kickoff the project. 

Cheers
Wayne T
Orewa EV


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

badlittlemonkey said:


> I do find this little experiment a little out of sorts where yes if you use two motors that have lets say do use the same amps they would counter each other but lets say one motor used say 10 amps and the other made 15 amps would there still not be an excess of amp-age, I would not have a clue because being a Newbie to this I think I will just have a play with getting a EV on the road and work on a generator later just to see what happens
> 
> oh and Happy 'NEW YEAR' may the new year be better than the last
> 
> *ducks*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yti-GQa5n0I








If you have a generator that produces 15 amps at say 12v it would output 180W of power.
If it was 80% efficient it would require 225W of power into it to get that 180W out.
Say you used a motor to drive that generator. The motor would need to output 225W. Say that motor was also 80% efficient it would need 282W of power to drive it.
Say you tried to use a generator to drive that motor. The generator would need to output 282W of power. Say it was also 80% efficient. The generator would need to be driven by a motor outputting 353W.

As you can see you would be using 353W of power to drive a generator to drive a motor to drive a generator to output 180W.

There are losses all the way down the line and 80% efficiency is in the range that you would find for most motors and generators.

You couldn't get more power out of a generator then you put in so if you were to use a motor to drive a generator the motor would use much more energy then the generator would ever produce. Therefore you couldn't then use the same generator to drive the motor that drives the generator.

It only really becomes useful when you have a lot of spare energy to disipate, like regenerative braking, or when the output is sufficiently important to outweigh the losses.


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## _tui_ (Sep 19, 2010)

Hi all,

Another newbie kiwi here...
My name's Daniel and I'm currently living in Auckland (originally from Opononi).
I plan to do a motorcycle conversion sometime in the next year (if the business starts paying =S).
Hopefully it'll be something reasonably ambitious like 15-20KW continuous with an 80km ish range (for city commuting).
For the time being I have lots of learning to do, so I'll be another one of those annoying question askers.

It's great to see so many people with the EV bug here, I had no idea there were so many. I count 55 odd different posters, most of which are in NZ.

Cheers,
Daniel


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## OrewaEV (Nov 6, 2010)

Hi Daniel

Good to here another from Auckland area. I am in Orewa and doing some research for a car project in the near future. Must admit a bike may not be a bad idea or better still a trike considering my age. We are an inventive lot in this little country and I am blown away by the projects people have done. 

Cheers
Wayne




_tui_ said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Another newbie kiwi here...
> My name's Daniel and I'm currently living in Auckland (originally from Opononi).
> ...


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

<DISCLAIMER: NOT a kiwi> 

Hey Gavin, you probably don't remember me, but I bought one of your EV DVDs a couple years back, it's one of the things that got me thinking about doing this. I was just curious... why are so many New Zealanders interested in electric cars? Is it something with the economy?
climate?
tax incentives/politics?
cost of gas there?
green movement there?

What's the dilly?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Notailpipe

As a Scotsman who has officially become a Kiwi - I've even got the tree they gave me at the ceremony - I am probably uniquely unqualified to answer your question
But I will anyway

Two reasons
(1) every Kiwi knows that you can build anything you want so long as you have No 8 wire and a hammer

(2) There are a lot of Scots here,
It is well known that Scots have invented almost everything, the more advanced Scots have all come here to Gods Country leaving their less advanced brothers back in Scotland building steam cars

As well as the Scots we have the Maori - the only native people to ever defeat the empire - a Maori/Scot is a frightening sight!

Joking aside the Maori proved a tremendously inventive race when the Europeans arrived - for a people new to firearms they invented trench warfare - look up - Modern Pa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_land_wars


There is a lot of "inventing" going on here from the only usable "rocket - (Jet) belt" to experiments on organs from pigs to wireless charging of electric cars
Tons of (sometimes weird) things going on on this little island


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Duncan said:


> Hi Notailpipe
> As a Scotsman who has officially become a Kiwi - I've even got the tree they gave me at the ceremony


Welcome aboard the good ship NZ Duncan, the Scots certainly brought a lot of good fiber to the NZ culture.

You didn't mention that arguably, it was a NZer that was the first to fly as well! What a guy Richard Pierce was, I believe the engine was partly made of tin cans!

Notailpipe; our government provides very little in the way of financial incentives for EVs. All I know of is that road user charges are not applied so it's not for the rebates people convert to EVs here.
It's a great little country but we are not as 'green' as we like to think or our image suggests. We are very primary industry driven, dairy farming a large part of that. Farmers here traditionally had to fix everything and that's were Duncan's mention of the No 8 wire thing comes in and my guess a lot of the inventiveness, like electric fences! Mostly a smaller gauge of high tensile wire is used now; much harder to use than the old No8!
I guess if helps that being a country of many farmers, there are guys with a lot of big sheds to build things in too 

Duncan, you just have to see Forgotton Silver by Peter Jackson to see some amazing NZ inventive history! Try and get the whole thing if you can. It's quite unforgettable!


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Guys

I forgot about - The World's Fastest Indian -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Fastest_Indian

Notailpipe - get this movie from your rental outfit - you will understand the Kiwi culture - or at least the part that makes electric cars (and fast indians)

Karlos is right about a certain lack of "greenness" with such a low population density we have not had to have the strictness that Europe has.

Kiwis are also an incredibly non PC lot - we have Easter Bunny hunts! - with prizes for the most bunnies!

I see/hear things on our TV adverts that would curl an American's hair and be banned so fast Einstein would be spinning in his grave.

From my point of view - the reason I immigrated - we have all of the advantages of the USA - space mostly - and all of the advantages of Europe - education, health service, parliamentary democracy 
Plus thousands of crazy Kiwis!


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Our thoughts are with our EV friends and all the people of Christchurch. You have had a rough ride. http://quake.crowe.co.nz/


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I hate this - people have died because bloody snobs want to keep their "Iconic buildings"
Most of the casualties have been due to old "historic" brick buildings and their fancy facades

I hope some of the people who have been campaigning to stop the demolition of dangerous buildings are ashamed!

Those of my friends in Christchurch that I have been able to contact are fine - 
I hope the rest are as well and there are no more casualties


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