# Bench Build a 1000hp EV



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Tessarect's post in another thread that a high HP ICE vehicle and a high HP EV would be an interesting price comparison got me thinking. Using currently available products what parts would you use to build a 1000hp EV and what would the rough costs be? No worries about the vehicles driveline, just the contollers/batteries/motors. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd go!


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Tessarect's post in another thread that a high HP ICE vehicle and a high HP EV would be an interesting price comparison got me thinking. Using currently available products what parts would you use to build a 1000hp EV and what would the rough costs be? No worries about the vehicles driveline, just the contollers/batteries/motors. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd go!


1000hp for how long?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Not that tough on paper. 1 Shiva, 1 ton Lithium, 2-4 Warp 9 or 11. $50k+


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

I think the fact you COULD build one today is what is impressive, and why I'm trying to get learn about EV's.

There are 1000+ HP small 4-cyl engines. They did not exist when I first got into performance, at least not for peasants like me. An Offy race engine running 45PSI boost could barely touch that. 7? years ago, one of my customers was running a SRT-4 Dodge engine at >1250HP. Factory block and head. You could build one without a major sponsor.

The point being, is that hotrodding evolves. Things that were rare and stupid expensive when they came out, are now common and cheap. Many ICE engines have DOHC or solid roller cams. These used to be racetrack only items, now they are in economy cars.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The big difference with electric is that you could run the above with very little additional cost or maintenence for 5-10 years.

...and the question was pretty simplisitc. A Shiva can do 1600 HP. Ron has 2 in his Camaro. The hard part would be getting enough battery power to feed those monsters.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

if the A123 19Ah pouch cells do 400 amps each as tested by EVTV, then you'd need a 8p128s pack to feed the Soliton Shiva. So that is 1024 cells @ $30 each = $30,720.

Soliton Shiva = $9,500

Motor ? I have no idea what would hold up to this kind of power, but I suspect it would need to be a pair of 11 or 13 inch motors. Perhaps that is not enough. Say you use two Warp13's at $6500 each for another $13,000.

Total so far is $53,220.


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

What if you used >=60C LiPo?

Isn't LiPo the highest discharge rate today? Hence fewer batteries, but lower range?

Weight defeats HP.

The more weight, the more HP, and heavier the driveline has to be, a double whammy. ie - A 2000lb car with 500HP accelerates quicker than a 4000lb car with 1000HP.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yeah, you could go much cheaper/lighter using smaller batteries. I was just crunching numbers with CALBs because they're familiar.

But cost wasn't specified as an objective, nor was the weight rating of the bench


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

It would be sweet if you could use the batteries or motors as stressed-members, ie - they are part of the frame, reducing weight. Perhaps the battery box could be a stressed member?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

McRat said:


> It would be sweet if you could use the batteries or motors as stressed-members, ie - they are part of the frame, reducing weight. Perhaps the battery box could be a stressed member?



Some people already do that...they cut out a rectangular piece of the unibody from the trunk/spare tire area and weld in a sunken battery box.

Im not sure how much stress that part of the unibody takes, I just know people cut into their unibodies...

And about the 1000HP...

1 Shiva + 2 Warp11HVs (9500$ + 7000$)
800cells (100S8P) of Turnigy A-Spec Lipo (8 of the 2p modules, total 16p)
6AH (1s2p)
139g
65C constant (390A)
130C burst!!
24$

Total = 245lbs, $19,200, 3120A constant and 6240A burst!, 17,760wh 17.7kwh, ~60mile range @ 300wh/mile

370V and 1500A to each motor....at below constant amperage of the batteries...

If the batteries sag 10% @ 3000A (1500A each motor) the Voltage will be 333V * 1500A = 500kw *2 = 1000kw, account for 25% losses = 1000hp

Crodriver had his warp11hv draw 1400A @ 4500rpm with only 270V to the motor, with 333V thats 23% higher, so...4500 * 1.23 = 5535rpm?

Additionally the torque from two 11" motors with 1500A each is ~1000ftlbs starting at any rpm you want!


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

It looks like you could do it as a drag racer with 3 WarP9's or 2 WarP11's assuming 2000 amps each max for the 9's and 3000 amps each for the 11's and 192 volts at the brushes. If we figure it for the 9's what we are shooting for is 746kw output. Divide that three ways and each motor needs to put out 249kw. To get that with 192 volts input you need 1297 amps at 100% efficiency. At those power levels the motor might be 65% efficient so figure 1995 amps. If you assume 25% sag you need a 75S pack to get the 192 volts under load (LiFeP04). Using A123 pouch cells you would essentially need a 5P pack for each motor or a 75S15P pack (1125 cells). You could do this with a smaller pack of LiPo cells because the voltage per cell is higher and specific energy is higher on the better cells. Three Zilla 2k's to control it all. I am pretty sure this would be right on the edge of 1000hp and around 1500 ft.lbs. of torque. And it should be fairly flat from almost zero rpm up close to the 5000 rpm redline.


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## GeoMetric (Aug 13, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> The big difference with electric is that you could run the above with very little additional cost or maintenence for 5-10 years.
> 
> ...and the question was pretty simplisitc. A Shiva can do 1600 HP. Ron has 2 in his Camaro. The hard part would be getting enough battery power to feed those monsters.


Yes, the big problem is building a battery to deliver 425V @ 3000amps at sag. My 4000amp pack delivers the 4000amps, but sags the voltage almost 50%. I am currently adding more in series to compensate the huge sag for our next race. During the winter I will be rebuilding all our parallel blocks to 15P and bring the pack voltage up to 425V.


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## Scuderia Elettrica (Sep 10, 2011)

How long would this power be usable though, also at what weight penalty... would current technology be able to produce enough continuous power to keep pace with the Evo's and GTR's in time attack settings 

I feel as if 1000 hp in an EV would bring the weight into the GTR weight bracket... and if your ignoring the cost of the car with an alpha 9 package from AMS you can make just shy of 1000 hp then drive to the market, pull a 9 in the 1/4 mile for $25,000 or step up to the alpha ten for $70,000 at a race weight near 3800 lbs for even more performance


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Scuderia Elettrica said:


> How long would this power be usable though, also at what weight penalty... would current technology be able to produce enough continuous power to keep pace with the Evo's and GTR's in time attack settings


I don't think you would want to do 2000 amps for more than about 15 seconds because the motor would overheat. The water cooled motor controller would be fine as long as you can keep the water going into it a reasonable temperature. The A123 battery I mentioned earlier is a 75S15P which means a nominal 240 volts at 300 amp hour. A 6000 amp load would drain it in 3 minutes so the battery is not the limiting factor.

If weight is the consideration a LiPo pack similar to the one Ron is talking about would save a lot of weight but would be exhausted in a little over a minute. So again not the battery.

This will weigh more than the ICE equivalent but the torque is going to be a flat 1500 ft lbs over at least a 5000 rpm range which is very different than what you see with an ICE setup.

An off the cuff guess for the 3 motor plus three controller arrangement would be around 500lbs. You still need to tie the shafts together and dump it into your transmission or differential if going direct. There is still the weight of the batteries. A 75S15P (72kwh) pack of A123 cells is 1125 cells each weighing 496 grams gives a minimum weight of 558kg (1228 lbs) which is pretty heavy and doesn't count all the interconnects. A pack similar to Ron's would consist of 65S20P (86.6kwh) and the bare cells would weigh 221kg (486 lbs) without the interconnects and enclosures.

Probably around 1200 lbs for the motors, controllers, batteries and enclosures.

Ron will have better numbers for the batteries and probably a good idea of the weights of stuff.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Scuderia Elettrica said:


> How long would this power be usable though, also at what weight penalty... would current technology be able to produce enough continuous power to keep pace with the Evo's and GTR's in time attack settings
> 
> I feel as if 1000 hp in an EV would bring the weight into the GTR weight bracket... and if your ignoring the cost of the car with an alpha 9 package from AMS you can make just shy of 1000 hp then drive to the market, pull a 9 in the 1/4 mile for $25,000 or step up to the alpha ten for $70,000 at a race weight near 3800 lbs for even more performance


The Alpha9 GTR is just an awesome car all around, however it does cost 65K for used GTR + 25K Alpha9 package = $90K, @ 3800lbs

Lets assume you find a glider that weighs 2,000lbs (which includes the new Front and Rear differentials to direct drive the motors)

1 Shiva + 2 Warp11HVs (9500$ + 3500*2$)
115lbs + 225lbs*2 = 665lbs

Turnigy A-Spec Lipo
6AH (1s2p)
139g
65C constant (390A)
130C burst!!
24$

1600cells (100S16P) of (16 of the 2p modules, total 32p)
Totals = 490lbs, $40K, 35kwh, ~100mile range @ 350wh/mile

370V and 1500A to each motor....1500A to each motor would be 32C draw from cells that can do 65C continuously, 50% load....

If the batteries sag say 10% @ 3000A (1500A each motor) the Voltage will be 333V * 1500A = 500kw *2 = 1000kw (accounting for additional 25% losses = 1000hp)

Crodriver had his warp11hv draw 1400A @ 4500rpm with only 270V to the motor, with 333V thats 23% higher, so...4500 * 1.23 = 5535rpm?

Additionally the torque from two 11" motors with 1500A each is ~1000ftlbs starting at any rpm you want...

2000lb Glider+F&R differentials (8,500$)
665lb Controller + Motors (~16,500$)
490lb Batteries (~40,000$)
3155lbs Total (~65,000$)


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

OK-It looks like the formula is fairly straightforward: Several big DC motors, a Shiva or several Zillas, and a LOT of batteries. Since batteries seem like the biggest expense, what would be the cheapest and/or lightest battery setup that could hit 1000hp during a drag run?


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> OK-It looks like the formula is fairly straightforward: Several big DC motors, a Shiva or several Zillas, and a LOT of batteries. Since batteries seem like the biggest expense, what would be the cheapest and/or lightest battery setup that could hit 1000hp during a drag run?


The answer sort of depends on how far you need the car to go. if you put 3/8 mile worth of batteries it will be a lot cheaper than adding 30 miles worth. LiPo or A123 LiFePO4 probably.

check here for some examples. http://www.thefoat.com/?sg=rides.main&cat_id=1&tag=&order_by=viewed&keywords=


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> ...a LOT of batteries. Since batteries seem like the biggest expense, what would be the cheapest and/or lightest battery setup that could hit 1000hp during a drag run?





palmer_md said:


> The answer sort of depends on how far you need the car to go. if you put 3/8 mile worth of batteries it will be a lot cheaper than adding 30 miles worth. LiPo or A123 LiFePO4 probably...


I haven't been keeping up with this discussion, and don't have time to read through now, but have some input on this subject.

The range is coincidental. When you put together a pack capable of delivering the power needed for 1000hp, you are going to have a small amount of range as a fringe benefit of having that much power. Building Turnigy NanoTech (LiCo) packs on paper for my projects, I usually always come up with at least 25 miles of range, often much more. Those are the highest c-rate cells I know of, and my power figures usually count for pushing them at somewhere near the upper end of their capacity.

I was building 1.2MW (1600hp) packs, on paper, for the Model E - that's for 1200hp theoretical motor(s), to allow for sag, and to not push the cells to their absolute ragged edge too much, because these packs are pretty expensive.

I estimated the 1.2MW pack would be around 200-250lbs, race ready (cases, BMS, connections, etc).


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## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Tessarect's post in another thread that a high HP ICE vehicle and a high HP EV would be an interesting price comparison got me thinking. Using currently available products what parts would you use to build a 1000hp EV and what would the rough costs be? No worries about the vehicles driveline, just the contollers/batteries/motors. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd go!


I am already busting nearly 900battery Horsepower in a small pack in DC Plasma. A few more parallel packs and we would be there.

My suggestion for a budget 1000HP car.

Two Warp9's with Helwig Split Red top Racing Grade brushes and forced cooling
Two Zilla Z2K-EHV's
8P96S 4.4Ahr LiPO 45C/90C

I can send you a chart and a quote on everything but the zillas. See www.ampahaulic.com


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## RazTech (Jan 19, 2013)

I would love a quote and a chart


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## ESCO_AT (Nov 14, 2012)

Hey everyone, first time poster but I've been reading just about everything on here for the past few months getting ready to start my own EV when a crazy idea popped into my head. 

If someone took the the set up Bowser330 laid out:



```
1 Shiva + 2 Warp11HVs (9500$ + 7000$)
800cells (100S8P) of Turnigy A-Spec Lipo (8 of the 2p modules, total 16p)
6AH (1s2p)
139g
65C constant (390A)
130C burst!!
```
 
and used it to power a device like a tread mill but with a 600lbs load on the belt would there be a way to determine acceleration? It would be a direct drive system so no gearing also the battery, motor, controller, ect., would all be stationary and their weight not an issue.

I only ask because I had a hydraulic test bench at work that just crapped out used in this style of motion. I know that if it can meet the same requirements the current system did I could convince my boss to redesign it using these components and actually work with some hardware vs just reading and saving for it...... Not to mention removing a huge hydrulic mess from our test area. Thanks in advance for any help! 


PS The Hp of the hydrulic is ~708 max

Hydraulic horsepower= flow rate (US gal/min) X pressure (psi) X 7/12,000


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Need more details, like drive roller diameter.


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## ESCO_AT (Nov 14, 2012)

Current system has an 8" drive roller. We currently have a toothed belt so no slip either.


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## PTCruisin (Nov 19, 2009)

Or you could just purchase a 1000hp EV. 

http://www.fuelyourproductdesign.com/rimacs-1000-hp-electric-supercar-debuts-in-frankfurt/


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## ESCO_AT (Nov 14, 2012)

I wish lol. I like the gratification from building my own cars though, like my 05 Wrangler that now has a Cummins 4bt diesel that runs on veggie oil........ and I'm cheap lol.


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