# kilovac contactor ev200 best price?



## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

Hey has anyone purchased the ev200 kilovac contactor on ebay for 68 bucks with free ship? Here is the url:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kilovac-EV200-S...721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb4ac0fc1

according to the title it is the same one for sale on the kta website for 140 bucks not including shipping.

Are they really exactly the same? i have never bought a contactor before so i just want to make sure! here's the url to the kta one:

http://store.kta-ev.com/Contactors_and_Battery_Disconnecting_Switches/Kilovac_EV200.aspx

Also while I'm at it hehe ebay has 50' of 1/0 welding cable for 140 shipped i know prices are higher now for these copper cables than a year ago but it is the lowest price i can find. Its rated for 250 amps is this cable going to be fine for my setup of a 120v system and a 500 amp controller? here is the url:

http://cgi.ebay.com/50-EXCELENE-1-0...143?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519094ca17

I'm trying to get the best deals for building my ev hehe You guys hafta know where the deals are right? Where are all the best buys and deals threads for EV's at?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

should be a legit EV200. Ebay has recently (in the last year) become the cheapest place for those contactors.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

hehe here's another question too this 200v volt meter on ebay should work fine in an EV too right? here is the url:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-1-2-Green-LED...644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2308cc3784


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

frodus said:


> Ebay has recently (in the last year) become the cheapest place for those contactors.


A little longer than that, I thought.

I believe that these came from a liquidation sale of some EV company that went bankrupt. When they run out, they'll likely become unavailable from Ebay, or available at higher prices.

They're still the most economical high-current contactor, by far; they seem to be sold in large quantities. Smaller contactors can cost many times the price.


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## DJBecker (Nov 3, 2010)

We bought a contactor from that ebay seller.
It arrived in perfect condition, unused, and it appears to be genuine.

Unlike the counterfeit IR MOSFETs I bought from a Chinese vendor with lots of eBay feedback. Worse, I bought a second batch after most of the first batch blew up. Only this time we tested them before installation. They were at least 12x the rated resistance at 30 amps, and blew up before we got to 40 amps.

Bottom line: it's good to ask.


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## DJBecker (Nov 3, 2010)

Newbiee said:


> hehe here's another question too this 200v volt meter on ebay should work fine in an EV too right? here is the url:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/3-1-2-Green-LED...644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2308cc3784


Note that you will need an isolated power supply for this, which will at least double the price.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Coulomb said:


> A little longer than that, I thought.
> 
> I believe that these came from a liquidation sale of some EV company that went bankrupt. When they run out, they'll likely become unavailable from Ebay, or available at higher prices.
> 
> They're still the most economical high-current contactor, by far; they seem to be sold in large quantities. Smaller contactors can cost many times the price.


I've been watching prices on these as I help people with their projects, and this last 12 months has been cheaper from what I've seen. Ebay is great!

I used to get them cheaper through other places, which have either run out or increased prices.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

DJBecker said:


> Note that you will need an isolated power supply for this, which will at least double the price.


why would i need an isolated power supply for this volt meter? can't i use the 12v accessory battery?

thanks guys for the help!


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## DJBecker (Nov 3, 2010)

Newbiee said:


> why would i need an isolated power supply for this volt meter? can't i use the 12v accessory battery?


If you do that, the traction battery will no longer be isolated from the accessory battery.

And if you do it with two devices, you'll find where the thinnest wire is located....


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Exactly. You need an isolated DC-dc converter just for that meter.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

so to get around having to buy a dc-dc converter and just staying with a 12v accessory battery what kind of volt meter to people use for this scenario?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

How about using one of these to isolate the meter?
http://www.lightobject.com/1205S-DC-DC-5V2Watt-Isolated-Power-Module-Ideal-for-12V-system-P412.aspx


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## Lordwacky (Jan 28, 2009)

Newbiee said:


> so to get around having to buy a dc-dc converter and just staying with a 12v accessory battery what kind of volt meter to people use for this scenario?


You can also use a separate 9V battery to power just the meter, maybe get some rechargeable ones. One word of caution though, only use one battery for each meter if you are going to use more then one. I though I was being clever and use one 9V battery to power 4 meters on my charging station so I could monitor ACV, AC amps, DCV and DCamps all at the same time. As soon as turned on my manzanita (which isn't isolated as well) 

There were sparks and one of the meters even caught on fire for a second or two until I blew it out. Freaked my girlfriend out pretty bad. That little incident is all the proof she needs to make her think that I'm totally incompetent and stupid for building my car and she constantly thinks I'm going to kill myself. It mostly just pissed me off. I blew all four meters and my charger... all in all that "clever" solution cost me about $250 all said an done.

Definitely need to isolate those meters

And also.... not a good idea to let the girlfriend or wife "help" with the project... just take them for a ride when its done.


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## Lordwacky (Jan 28, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> How about using one of these to isolate the meter?
> http://www.lightobject.com/1205S-DC-DC-5V2Watt-Isolated-Power-Module-Ideal-for-12V-system-P412.aspx


I'm using on of these currently on the power meter in my dash. Seems to work fine. One thing is that it seems to require around 13V before it will kick on and output a useable voltage. As a consiquence my power meter will not work unless I have my DC-DC converter active, it doesn't work off just my 12V battery because the voltage it too low. Not a big deal, but kinda annoying.

and another thing, the pins on those modules are stupid thin and fragile. First one I just soldered wire directly to the pins and one broke off while I was installing.... second one I used perf board to stabilized the module... another $9 mistake


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

awesome advice thanks a lot dudes! i will make sure not to include my girlfriend until the ev is finished hehe... i have no idea what i am doing anyway though 
hmmph i do like the idea of getting a small rechargeable battery for the meter seems like that would be the easiest way to do it hahaha

any comments on that welding cable link? i purchased the ev contactor now that i know its legit, and i got some info on the voltmeter, now i just need some confidence to buy the wire lol! $140 shipped 50' sounds like a good deal for today's prices? only down side is its all going to be one color which will probably confuse me when wiring it up


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

I might as well throw all the questions i can think of out there hehe, i also need to purchase the pb6 pot box and i noticed it has the microswitch and the pb5 doesn't. Apparently the microswitch opens the contactor when you let off the throttle (i think). Since i need to use a pre-charge resistor won't this cause problems because i am supposed to precharge the controller before closing the contactor? Since it will be opening and closing the contactor constantly without precharging? Or does the controller only need to be precharged once and it is ok to keep closing and opening the contactor afterwards?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd say don't use the micro switch.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Newbiee said:


> I might as well throw all the questions i can think of out there hehe, i also need to purchase the pb6 pot box and i noticed it has the microswitch and the pb5 doesn't. Apparently the microswitch opens the contactor when you let off the throttle (i think). Since i need to use a pre-charge resistor won't this cause problems because i am supposed to precharge the controller before closing the contactor? Since it will be opening and closing the contactor constantly without precharging? Or does the controller only need to be precharged once and it is ok to keep closing and opening the contactor afterwards?


Use two contactors. One in the negative pack side and one on the positive pack side. Put the precharge resistor across the terminals of the pack positive contactor and have your key close the contactor on the pack negative side. This will keep the controller precharged when the micro-switch opens the other contactor.

You do, however, need to determine if your controller will work with pack voltage constantly being turned on and off (really up and down because the resistor is still completing the circuit).


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Guys

_*pb6 pot box and i noticed it has the microswitch and the pb5 doesn't. Apparently the microswitch opens the contactor when you let off the throttle (i think).*_

I am not there on my build yet but my take is that this is a safety switch - I will be using this in the circuit that feeds a signal to my controller - so that I when the throttle is closed (no power) the pedal signal will be set to zero
When the throttle is used the switch must close as well as the pot moving.

I believe Toyota use what is effectively a dual pot (actually not a pot) with one signal to the ECM going high with the pedal and the other going low - both needed for the logic

I DO NOT intend using this to open the main contactor just to allow signal from the pot box to the controller


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Looking at the kta web site I would say that this seller has referenced the EV200A4ANA by mistake and has priced accordingly. Oh, and I just bought the last one and should have acted earlier,thanks for the tip.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

haha cool im glad you got the deal too! i just got mine in the mail looks good so far.

question: is there any benefit to using a microswitch in an ev? turning the contactor on and off will help in what way? if its not too important i could just go with the pb5 pot box.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Did you check the serial number to see if it is an AAA and not an A4A?; otherwise we'll both be crying.
Mine was $64 (aud) +$13 freight to Australia. Better than carrier pigeon.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

it says p/n: ev200aaana on it so we're good


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Newbiee said:


> question: is there any benefit to using a microswitch in an ev? turning the contactor on and off will help in what way? if its not too important i could just go with the pb5 pot box.


I think the switch is leftover from golf cart applications where you're likely to get out of the vehicle each time you stop. It doesn't make much sense in a road going EV.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I just bought two from here off ebay. One of the old ones was welded shut and the second one failed to close. I've been buying them for this price since 2008. The first two I broke the threads off the studs by tightening them too much. THEY ARE MADE OF COATED COPPER so they're not able to take much torque. So after 8500 miles or so I'm starting on set #3. I do think they're good contactors but I just abused them mechanically.

Now this is why you want to use the PB6 microswitch. It's a safety feature. Contactors can weld shut which means they no longer can disconnect power when you shut the ignition off. It happens mostly due to arcing and the stronger the inrush current the more likely they will weld. By using this switch, you will preserve one relay from this arcing as it will always close with the other one off so there can't be an arc. As mentioned earlier, use one on the + side and the other on the - side. I've set mine up for the - to close when I turn the ignition on. The other one can't come on until I step on the pedal. Should you need to kill the power because the controller failed and your vehicle tries to take off you should be in good shape.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply! Is their no easier and cheaper way to keep the contactor from welding closed without having to buy 2 contactors? I read some people saying use 2 contactors and some saying you only need 1.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Newbiee said:


> Thanks for the reply! Is their no easier and cheaper way to keep the contactor from welding closed without having to buy 2 contactors? I read some people saying use 2 contactors and some saying you only need 1.


Technically you only need one. If you want a backup, you need 2. On my Gizmo I have only 1 but I also have a SepEx motor. If it had a series wound motor I would have either 2 contactors or one contactor and one BRB (Big Red Button) which is really a manual contactor as a safety. When I do a full size EV conversion I will have 2 contactors. Also, don't forget to get a properly rated fuse for your pack.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> I just bought two from here off ebay. One of the old ones was welded shut and the second one failed to close.


If you aren't operating them under load why did they fail? Were they the ones that were being switched by the micro switch? It just seems as if you are going to wear your contactors a lot if it disengages every time you lift off the throttle. Admittedly I don't have to worry about controller runaway with my AC system, but I think I'd rather install an emergency disconnect than have a contactor constantly opening and closing.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Newbiee said:


> Thanks for the reply! Is their no easier and cheaper way to keep the contactor from welding closed without having to buy 2 contactors? I read some people saying use 2 contactors and some saying you only need 1.


It's the way I did mine and I think it's a very popular way of doing it. I like JRP's idea of an emergency kill switch but I haven't researched it. I'd actually rather not have one switching every time I let off the pedal but I have other things currently I'm working on.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> If you aren't operating them under load why did they fail? Were they the ones that were being switched by the micro switch? It just seems as if you are going to wear your contactors a lot if it disengages every time you lift off the throttle. Admittedly I don't have to worry about controller runaway with my AC system, but I think I'd rather install an emergency disconnect than have a contactor constantly opening and closing.


I think the one that closes with no load actually won't close anymore. ??? The one switching on and off with the PB6 is the one that's stuck closed. It may have something to do with my new higher voltage (166-168 typically) and the precharge not getting high enough. I added a 10000uf cap bank a while back which may be drawing an arc every time it closes, that added to the 16000uf in the controller.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What are you using for a suppression diode on the contactors? This paper suggests that using a regular diode will actually slow down the contact release and that you should use a silicon transient suppressor diode.
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3311.pdf



> Many engineers use a rectifier diode alone to provide the transient
> suppression for relay coils. While this is cost effective and fully eliminates
> the transient voltage, its impact on relay performance can be devastating.
> Problems of unexplained, random "tack welding" frequently occur in these
> ...





> Based upon the impact on armature motion and optimizing for normallyopen
> contacts, the best suppression method is to use a silicon transient
> suppressor diode. This suppressor will have the least effect on relay dropout
> dynamics since the relay transient will be allowed to go to a
> ...


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Thanks JRP! I wasn't aware of this coil suppression and contact life. In electronics we use it to keep the voltage spike out of other sensitive electronics. I didn't think I needed them but it appears I do. After reading the specs, I think the added cap bank is the culprit along with the internal caps on the controller. Per the specs, *precharge to near pack voltage is absolutely essential for long life!* My precharge doesn't go high enough I'm sure and at times I forget to wait on it.  I probably need a time delay relay for the precharge. Dang another frickin relay to install and wire!

I think I want to install a kill switch or BRB per Gizmo! That will eliminate switching the thing so much. This way I can install larger resistors for quick precharge without wasting so much energy across resistors. As installed now, the resistors draw power as long as the ignition is on but I think the power loss is probably trivial.

Oh and this is a replacement for the Tyco relay. It has built in suppression!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Good post from a Gigavac rep at the bottom of this page:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/gigavac-contactor-faultyi-23236.html


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

Ok so after reading that gigavac thread it seems i need a diode for my ev200 contactor while the gigavac contactor doesn't? Also what kind of emergency disconnect switch do you guys use? The only thing i can think of is something like Paul Holmes has in his vw bug where he holds a string and pulls it to disconnect the cable from an anderson clamp or something lol.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Take a look through this thread for ideas
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/oh-scheisse-bar-42209.html


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

By the way, if your contactor has the economizer circuit attached to it then you don't need the diode as it's built in.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

JRP the EV200 has an economizer built in. All of them I've bought has. Their data sheet says it limits back EMF to 0V. That's what a suppressor does so I guess it does have it built in. I noted the one that welded shut is the one that is closing under load. I'm sure the few times I forgot and hit the throttle before letting it charge to 90% is why it welded. 

IRCC, their specs say to precharge to 90% pack voltage and it's then rated at 10,000 cycles. At only 80% precharge, 50 cycles! I probably closed it a few times at 30-50% precharge!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sounds as if you need a faster precharge circuit, or just leave the precharge resistor engaged. Once the caps are charged there would be very little drain on it. There has been some discussion that having the caps "full" all the time is easier on them than the constant emptying and charging. That's what I've done on my 6x6, the precharge resistor is always connected unless I'm not going to be using it for a while. Maybe throw a small fuse in line so if the controller spontaneously decides to go full power and pull current through the precharge the fuse blows and nothing happens.


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## Newbiee (Feb 16, 2011)

for all the digital ammeters on ebay in the description it says (must be used with a 500amp 75mv shunt resister) however i have a deltec 500 amp 50mv resister and i am wondering why their are no digital meters for this kind of shunt?


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Newbiee said:


> for all the digital ammeters on ebay in the description it says (must be used with a 500amp 75mv shunt resister) however i have a deltec 500 amp 50mv resister and i am wondering why their are no digital meters for this kind of shunt?


While it does more than you are asking the CycleAnalyst (ebikes.ca) will work with any shunt. You just program in the resistance and it works!


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I have an update for those using this contactor and I'm disappointed to say the least. We opened both contactors up and found that the contact used to connect the two terminals is about 3/8" overall too short. It is a piece of tinned copper about 1/8" thick and 3/8" wide. The terminal contact area on the bottom of the studs is about 3/8" diameter. 

So you have two contact surfaces about 3/8" diameter that when closed only half of the contact area is actually connected. So the surface area to conduct up to 500 amps is about half the surface area of a 3/8" circle. ENTIRELY TOO SMALL, TOTAL FAIL!!! It's no wonder they don't last!

However to protect this latest batch as best I can I'm installing this voltage monitoring relay to energize the second contactor once the precharge builds up to 90% of my pack voltage. It can be powered by the pre-charge voltage as well which will remain energized until the ignition is switched off.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Wow that sounds really poor. Might be worth trying a Gigavac in the future.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Interestingly HPEVS supplied me with a LEV200 contactor, which is physically larger than the EV200, and I assumed heavier duty, but all the specs seem to be the same, other than cycle life, where the smaller EV200 is rated for 1 million cycles and the larger LEV200 is only rated for 100K cycles.
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Wonder where that Gigavac rep is? I'd like to see photos of the inside of it. I'm guilty of blowing up the one due to sometimes forgetting to wait. This relay I'm using will remove the loose nut behind the wheel. I love automation! 

With the new higher voltage it takes about 10 seconds to charge. I'll add another resistor in parallel and speed it up a bit. I have 3 x 750 paralleled now and the 4th is on the bench waiting.


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## johnogbirk (Jun 4, 2011)

Speaking of contactors:
I thought I´d take a startermotor from a car, and use the relay/contactor.
Is this possible? Also, could you run several contactors parallel if the amp rating is too low? Cheers, john


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

johnogbirk said:


> Speaking of contactors:
> I thought I´d take a startermotor from a car, and use the relay/contactor.
> Is this possible?


I don't think it's a good idea. They are probably rated at only 250 A or so, and will be built cheap for low duty cycle use. But the main thing is that they are not designed to interrupt higher voltage DC.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Wonder where that Gigavac rep is? I'd like to see photos of the inside of it....


They look pretty similar inside and both rely heavily on "heatsinking" of the terminals to achieve their claimed current rating.

EDIT: I give the nod to the Tyco/Kilovac, though, because of the silver plating. The contacts are far less likely to weld together. That said, the Gigavac does seem to be better constructed overall. Still, look at how rough the copper is on the Gigavac after suffering short-circuit testing of a Soliton1... the contact surfaces are seriously rough as a result. That said, the Tyco/Kilovac contactor was a casualty of overzealous tightening during assembly resulting in stripping of the terminal threads, so it's more or less unused.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm trying to think of some logical reason they both seem to use about half the available contact area  Easier to break any potential welding?


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

Have read through the thread - how does this analysis apply to controllers that don't require a pre-charge resistor (or might have one built in), such as the Zilla 1K-HV? I'm not sure if that changes the argument about arcing or if I still shouldn't use these Kilovac contactors.

P.S. My current plan is to use two of the EV200 contactors. One controlled by my main ignition and the other connected to my big red button. I am targeting about 300-500A continuous and 1000A peak (that's what my controller and batteries can handle).


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I can tell you the Kilovac will handle 1000A for a short time as that's what I use and have seen close to that amount for a second or two. But I'd recommend a precharge circuit with your controller if it doesn't have one built in. I've had a couple of them weld together due to not precharging.

I actually use a voltage relay to control the second contactor. When the key is turned the first contactor comes on along with a small relay which applies pack voltage to my precharge resistors. Once the voltage on the controllers is at 85% of pack voltage it switches on the second contactor. 85% is the recommended minimum voltage to precharge to per the Kilovac specs to ensure long contact life. The life drops dramatically if you just turn the key and apply full voltage to the controller.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

notailpipe said:


> P.S. My current plan is to use two of the EV200 contactors. One controlled by my main ignition and the other connected to my big red button.


I don't think you need two contactors for that reason. If the big red button is normally closed, and opens when pushed, it can be in series with the ignition circuit. The only hazard there is if the switch fails shorted (very unlikely) or there is a short in the wiring to the switch (use good wire, possibly separately covered).


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Coulomb said:


> I believe that these [ less expensive EV200s from Ebay ] came from a liquidation sale of some EV company that went bankrupt. When they run out, they'll likely become unavailable from Ebay, or available at higher prices.


There is one piece of evidence (that I am aware of) against this theory now. The latest batch of contactors (we use up to 20 of them in our high voltage MX-5) looked slightly different to the others we've ordered, all from the same Ebay vendor. That suggests to me that these are not from the same batch, so they may be new, rather than second-hand unused from the liquidation.

So that's a good sign.


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

ElectriCar said:


> I actually use a voltage relay to control the second contactor. When the key is turned the first contactor comes on along with a small relay which applies pack voltage to my precharge resistors. Once the voltage on the controllers is at 85% of pack voltage it switches on the second contactor. 85% is the recommended minimum voltage to precharge to per the Kilovac specs to ensure long contact life. The life drops dramatically if you just turn the key and apply full voltage to the controller.


Why does it matter, since when you turn on the ignition (presuming that you don't turn on the ignition with the accelerator pedal down), the controller will be calling for no battery current to the motor. So at that point it's like your contactor is making a connection to a large capacitive load. Is that enough to cause the arcing? 

I'll have to read more about what the case is for the Zilla. It either "has no need for precharge resistors" or "has integrated precharge resistors," with the results being highly different so I guess I need to poke around my manual some..


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

When you apply power to the controller you're applying power to a rather large capacitor bank in most if not all controllers which acts like a dead short for a split second until it's charged up a bit. That dead short makes a huge arc across the contactors contacts which damages them, sometimes they actually weld closed. Not exactly a good thing either way.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

I purchased one of the ev 200 off of ebay and just to let you know it says that the voltage range is 6V-24V but it is actually 12V.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The Zilla has a built in precharge system. There are 2 wires going to the end of the hairball, these go to the pack connections on the main contactor. The Zilla will not pull in the main contactor if it does not precharge.


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

EVfun said:


> The Zilla has a built in precharge system. There are 2 wires going to the end of the hairball, these go to the pack connections on the main contactor. The Zilla will not pull in the main contactor if it does not precharge.


Awesome, thanks! I plan to go with just one EV200 to break the pack then, wired in series with my ignition and the big red button.


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