# [EVDL] conversion reliability



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When I first heard of Ray Blackburn's Yaris conversion a year or more 
ago, I was most interesting in tracking his experience. After just 
reading this:
http://is.gd/YLkv5U
I looked up his evalbum page again and am VERY pleased that he has 
been candidly reporting his experience:
http://evalbum.com/1892
His experience closely parallels my own:
http://evalbum.com/2314
Long periods out of service, miles accumulated slowly, general 
un-reliability. The upside: nice performance, good driveability, 
extraordinary range.

I am struck by the warranty expense 
HybridTechnologies/Li-IonMotors/whatever must have incurred. And, the 
initial price was low. Surely, not a profitable instance for them.

I wonder if there are more successful conversion stories out there?

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 155 days 6 hours 51 minutes

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've had little down time since completing my conversion in Nov/2009
(http://www.evalbum.com/3060). A cheap bms failed draining some cells, but I
was able to continue using the car with the bms removed. I replaced 4 of
those cells later due more drift/sag than other cells. Installed a minibms
a few months later. The brake vacuum pump failed, and was replaced free of
charge. I also had to send the Manzanita charger back for replacement of the
input rectifier board. It's been down for repair less than about 12 days
since the conversion was completed. Mainly due to shipping time for the
charger. Other events were around 1-2 day down time each. Over 7500 miles
to date. No problems for the last several months.
-- 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> tomw wrote:
> >
> > I've had little down time since completing my conversion in Nov/2009
> > (http://www.evalbum.com/3060). A cheap bms failed draining some cells, but I
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Just under 7500 miles the first year, not under 4000.

Wow, one response and the thread is already hijacked.
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View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/conversion-reliability-tp3305129p3306836.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> tomw wrote:
> >
> > Just under 7500 miles the first year, not under 4000.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 06:19:47AM -0800, tomw wrote:
> > >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've had my Honda del Sol conversion about 6 months. I drove it very
solidly every day for about 3 months before starting some re-wiring projects
that have had it out of commission for the last 3 months. Those weren't
driven by reliability problems so much as the new owner's desire to tinker
8^). I got a little over 2000 miles during 3 months. My commute is 46
miles round-trip, so I'll put the miles on pretty quickly once I'm back on
the road again. Should be within the next couple of weeks.

So far, I haven't had any major issues. There were some annoyances that are
getting fixed. Things like the wiring to the tachometer cutting out
intermittently. The major project was rewiring the charger input so I can
take 110 and 220V inputs. I'm also adding lots of small things like an
interlock on the fuel cover door, temperature sensor on the motor wired into
the original temperature gauge, miniBMS alert wired to a new buzzer and the
oil pressure light. Also, adding a heater and redoing the DC-DC converter
to fix a problem with my initial installation. Finally, adding meters for
pack voltage and pack current.

Mike
www.evalbum.com/2778


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:33 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] conversion reliability



> tomw wrote:
> >
> > Just under 7500 miles the first year, not under 4000.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 03:36:52PM +0000, Evan Tuer wrote:
> 
> FWIW I've got about 14,000 miles out of the first year of driving with SE
> cells, car has 80-100 miles range.
> I had to reset the car once but other than that it's been hands off, just
> plug it in.

http://evalbum.com/2406
?

I guess you got "a leg up" by starting with a factory built EV. Most 
of my un-reliability has been associated not with the battery but with 
other conversion components.

None the less, an AVERAGE of nearly 40 miles a day with a range of 
80-100 is just about as good as anyone could hope for. You may well 
get full value out of your lithium!

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 156 days 8 hours 07 minutes

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I did have one time that the del Sol quit on me and left me calling for
help. The original car had a separate 12V trickle charger for the original
12V battery. It quit and I didn't know it. Once the 12V battery died, the
main contactor cut out. Kind of embarrassing to have 14 kWh of energy
stored but be unable to drive because the 12V battery is dead! That
prompted the installation of the DC-DC converter. Also, I now carry some
10ga cables that could be used in a pinch to go across 4 of the lithium
cells to provide 12V.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mike Nickerson
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:56 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] conversion reliability

I've had my Honda del Sol conversion about 6 months. I drove it very
solidly every day for about 3 months before starting some re-wiring projects
that have had it out of commission for the last 3 months. Those weren't
driven by reliability problems so much as the new owner's desire to tinker
8^). I got a little over 2000 miles during 3 months. My commute is 46
miles round-trip, so I'll put the miles on pretty quickly once I'm back on
the road again. Should be within the next couple of weeks.

So far, I haven't had any major issues. There were some annoyances that are
getting fixed. Things like the wiring to the tachometer cutting out
intermittently. The major project was rewiring the charger input so I can
take 110 and 220V inputs. I'm also adding lots of small things like an
interlock on the fuel cover door, temperature sensor on the motor wired into
the original temperature gauge, miniBMS alert wired to a new buzzer and the
oil pressure light. Also, adding a heater and redoing the DC-DC converter
to fix a problem with my initial installation. Finally, adding meters for
pack voltage and pack current.

Mike
www.evalbum.com/2778


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:33 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] conversion reliability



> tomw wrote:
> >
> > Just under 7500 miles the first year, not under 4000.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mike Nickerson wrote:
> > I did have one time that the del Sol quit on me and left me calling for
> > help. The original car had a separate 12V trickle charger for the original
> > 12V battery. It quit and I didn't know it. Once the 12V battery died, the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> > I wonder if there are more successful conversion stories out there?
> 
> Projects built by beginners and small startup companies often have a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > By the time I got to my current EV (a US Electricar Lectric Leopard
> > a.k.a a converted Renault LeCar), I knew enough to rip out everything US
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Mike,



> Mike Nickerson wrote:
> 
> > I've had my Honda del Sol conversion about 6 months. I drove it very
> > solidly every day for about 3 months before starting some re-wiring projects
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I can charge at work, so I'm only using about 50% each way. I wouldn't be
comfortable with what it would do to the batteries round trip.

I drove 55 miles on the pack once. That was about 3-4 miles too many. I
couldn't hear the alarm buzzer from the miniBMS at highway speed so I
noticed the batteries were in distress when I got to my driveway. By then 2
cells were at 0 volts. I charged them up right away, babied them during a
slow charge and kept close track of the temperature of the cells. They
seemed to recover OK, but I'm still watching them.

I also learned that my cells weren't as balanced as I previously thought. I
had a few other cells that were about 20% lower than the top cells. That's
when I went out and bought the top-up charger in my last post. That charger
does a really nice job of pointing out how low your cells are. Kind of
makes you gulp when it puts in 20Ah just after the main charging cycle
finishes. On a full cell, it measures less than 1Ah it tried to put in.

I also have found recently that my front disk brakes are dragging. Fixing
that should help range a little. I'm using about 250 Wh/mile right now.
I'm hoping to get it down to 200-225 Wh/mile when I'm done. With a
well-balanced pack and the car well adjusted, I think I may make 60 mile+
range, but I'm still glad I can charge at work. I also have a much louder
buzzer now, and the alarm circuit is now wired into the oil pressure idiot
light on the dash too.

That energy usage is on a commute that is a combination of highway (about 55
mph) and a little stop-go traffic as I get into town. However, I've been
driving it for 18 years now, so I know where the speed limit changes are and
when the lights are likely to change. I coast a lot. I routinely get 35
mpg on an ICE that is EPA rated for 27 mpg. That definitely makes my range
numbers on the high side for variable traffic and other drivers.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:31 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] conversion reliability

Hey Mike,



> Mike Nickerson wrote:
> 
> > I've had my Honda del Sol conversion about 6 months. I drove it very
> > solidly every day for about 3 months before starting some re-wiring
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Willie,

Can you expand on the Soliton/DC-DC converter issue? Might be 
relevant to others planning to use the Soliton.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 09:01:30AM -0700, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> >> I did have one time that the del Sol quit on me and left me calling
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:02:56AM +0000, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> Hi Willie,
> 
> Can you expand on the Soliton/DC-DC converter issue? Might be 
> relevant to others planning to use the Soliton.

The Belktronix DC-DC that worked fine with a Logisystem controller 
started blowing up as soon as the Soliton was installed. Apparently, 
much more "ripple current" with the Soliton. After eventually 
correctly diagnosing the problem, Brian/Belktronix installed an 
internal inductor which solved the problem.

At that time, I wasn't regularly monitoring 12 v voltage so I ran the 
aux battery down several times before I knew something was amiss. Now, 
I have a cigarette lighter socket voltmeter; it gives me a sense of 
wellbeing when I see it come up to ~14v when I turn the ignition switch 
on.

The episode left me with high confidence of getting good product 
support from Belktronix in the future.

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 157 days 2 hours 43 minutes

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mike Nickerson wrote:
> >
> > I also learned that my cells weren't as balanced as I previously thought. I
> > had a few other cells that were about 20% lower than the top cells. That's
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"> Wow, one response and the thread is already hijacked.

Don't understand. I consider the distance an EV can be driven in a
given amount of time to be a good indication of reliability. I
attempted to point out that moderate to high reliability is needed to
get full value out of lithium." 

I was referring to the other two posts on fastening angle aluminum, which
have nothing to do with your thread.

The car was available to drive many more miles, I just didn't need to.
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/conversion-reliability-tp3305129p3308848.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> tomw wrote:
> 
> > I was referring to the other two posts on fastening angle aluminum, which
> > have nothing to do with your thread.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee wrote
. I then drove it for
> 10 years with almost no failures.
>
> So, it's possible to have a reliable EV conversion. But it won't happen
> without a lot of knowledge, experience, and hard work!

There's another reason I believe some people do better than others and this
is just HOW they drive and care for there EV. Some people seem to have a
sense , even when using some machine they've never used before. When I let
someone drive one of my ev's I hold on to the keys till we've had a little
talk. Some (few) will ask a lot of good questions before driving ( I'm
always impressed when asked where is the emergency disconnect ) .
Steve Clunn
-- 
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:02:56AM +0000, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> >> Hi Willie,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One thing youz guyz might try: Separate your DC/DC from your controller by
considerable distance. On my boat, the controller is right next to the
motor inside the outboard motor cowling. The DC-DC is a good 10-ft away and
separately cabled from the battery bank as the bank is between the
controller and the DC-DC. They could try to talk to each other, but the
battery is between them.
Mine's just an old 36v:12v 300w GE DC/DC.

-MT
www.evalbum.com/492


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:17 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] conversion reliability




> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:02:56AM +0000, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> >> Hi Willie,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > Interesting! I wonder if the ripple current is also causing trouble with my DC-DC converter and is the cause of my similar issues. Do you know what kind of internal inductor he installed in it and how?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:16:50AM -0800, corbin dunn wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I hadn't done anything to balance the cells. I was just driving the car. I
don't know what the original owner did. I did notice that 5-6 cells would
go into shunting (miniBMS red lights on), but the remaining cells would not.
That was a danger signal I was ignoring. Also, while my BMS does have
shunts, the controller was still pushing enough current that it was usually
only a few minutes before the high cell would hit the high alert and the
charger would shut down. In hind-sight, that wasn't enough to balance
things.

I used the SkyCharger one cell at a time to get everything topped up. Now
that they are all closer, I'm using the SkyCharger with strings of 5 (cell
strapping boundaries just to make it easy). I was doing that about once a
month. I will spend some time trying to get all the BMS modules lit up
together once I finish my rewiring projects.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 5:14 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] conversion reliability



> Mike Nickerson wrote:
> >
> > I also learned that my cells weren't as balanced as I previously
> > thought. I had a few other cells that were about 20% lower than the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:16:50AM -0800, corbin dunn wrote:
> > =
> ...


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