# [EVDL] another berlingo question



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you want a controller for a shunt motor then your options
are limited.
As you said, it may be possible to set the shunt to a fixed
current, but you will lose some control there, though you
could rig up a "field weakening" where you have higher field
at lower speeds and cut back the field once you reach a
certain speed, which would give you back some of the control.
For a series motor there are plenty controllers.
DC Power Systems' Raptor uses nominal 156V, so I am
guessing that they use 200V components inside.
For a complete overview of all controllers on the
EV Album, see here:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/cntrl


Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of steve ollerton
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:50 PM
To: ev
Subject: [EVDL] another berlingo question

Hello again

If I decided to sack off the berlingo controller gubbins (which seem fairly unreliable anyway) which controller would suit the 170V DC system that this car has. Citroen want 5 grand for a new ECU / controller box. 
Any cheaper options available?

Steve

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_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

steve

I don't think there is a controller suitable for the berlingo 162V Sepex 
motor.

I believe you could use a Zilla on the armature with a constant voltage 
on the field. I asked Otmar about this and he dissuaded me from doing so.


you can pick up spare parts for berlingos in france.

I bought a few parts off a guy in bordeaux, he had one accident damaged 
van and one almost perfect but without the largest of the battery 
modules. I think he wanted 1500 euros for the whole thing. I can try to 
find his email address if you want. I initially contacted him via an 
advert on the forums of Phillip Borges vehiculeseletriques.free.fr 
website which is very useful if you can read French. I'm sure you will 
find some spare parts from there.

I haven't heard any reports of the controller being unreliable but have 
heard many reports of citroen being unable to service. For example the 
battery cooling system on my berlingo developed a small leak last Spring 
and registered a low water fault. I took it to the Citroen garage, they 
told me the controller was faulty and that I needed to spend 5 grand on 
a new one. When I got it home I had a look and soon discovered the low 
water and the water leak. I refilled the water, completely disconnected 
the main and the 12V batteries, reconnected and the car was fine. There 
was nothing wrong with the controller, I drove it for another 8000 miles 
with no problems (other than having to top up the cooling water every 
trip and every charge).





> steve ollerton wrote:
> > Hello again
> >
> > If I decided to sack off the berlingo controller gubbins (which seem
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello,

These ECU are beautiful electronics and very reliable but whole system next
to them is less ...
Most common fault with PSA ECU is charger going into security mode.... or
bang
It happen near each time after leakage of battery/ECU colant system as water
pump ... is now pumping air, no more cooling, 3kW charger is going hot to
hell and cut off or die
You can drive the car but no more charge it and find your car in half
charged state with "electric fault" light ON at morning.

Disconnecting High Voltage (Rear pack behind left wheel fuse is most
easy/quick to catch) reset the ECU stored fault.
But you have to check water level on the coolant tank, right side under the
hood.
If it's low or empty instead of full to the top end as it should be, you
HAVE to find the coolant hoosing leak, most of the time it's on rear box but
check for coolant water sign on the floor after filling the tank to full
again.
dismount battery box and repair the leak with polyur=E9thane glue on the 2
crap plastic oblong hoose part where the leak is.

Generaly (if fault is well known and electronic cards not too much toasted)
these faulty ECU can be rebuilt, you can contact me by email off list.

Philippe
vehiculeselectriques.free.fr



2007/8/17, Thomas Ward <[email protected]>:
>
> steve
>
> I don't think there is a controller suitable for the berlingo 162V Sepex
> motor.
>
> I believe you could use a Zilla on the armature with a constant voltage
> on the field. I asked Otmar about this and he dissuaded me from doing so.
>
>
> you can pick up spare parts for berlingos in france.
>
> I bought a few parts off a guy in bordeaux, he had one accident damaged
> van and one almost perfect but without the largest of the battery
> modules. I think he wanted 1500 euros for the whole thing. I can try to
> find his email address if you want. I initially contacted him via an
> advert on the forums of Phillip Borges vehiculeseletriques.free.fr
> website which is very useful if you can read French. I'm sure you will
> find some spare parts from there.
>
> I haven't heard any reports of the controller being unreliable but have
> heard many reports of citroen being unable to service. For example the
> battery cooling system on my berlingo developed a small leak last Spring
> and registered a low water fault. I took it to the Citroen garage, they
> told me the controller was faulty and that I needed to spend 5 grand on
> a new one. When I got it home I had a look and soon discovered the low
> water and the water leak. I refilled the water, completely disconnected
> the main and the 12V batteries, reconnected and the car was fine. There
> was nothing wrong with the controller, I drove it for another 8000 miles
> with no problems (other than having to top up the cooling water every
> trip and every charge).
>
>
>


> > steve ollerton wrote:
> > > Hello again
> > >
> > > If I decided to sack off the berlingo controller gubbins (which seem
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Phillippe
=

Thanks for your reply. My eberlingo went from running fine to not running=
with no warning lights at all. =

First click of the ignition fires up the cooling system etc (whirring noi=
se) and the charge goes up to 100% on the dashboard. Trying to do the next =
click to engage the main contactor - nothing. No green "drive" light, no mu=
sical chime and no clunk of the main contactor. Hence it will not go. I hav=
e taken the cover off the main ECU and there is no obvious burnt out tracks=
but I do not really know what I am looking for! =

Citroen say I need a new ECU.
A friend with some knowledge of these cars tells me some part of the "sta=
rt sequence" must not be working therefore the main contactor will not clic=
k. The battery pack is in good order, There is no electrical fault light on=
the dash. Any thoughts?
I would gladly buy a working ECU from a scrap vehicle if you know of one =
that is working. Let me know the price / postage cost etc. =

=

Merci!!
=

Steve



> "vehiculeselectriques.free.fr" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> These ECU are beautiful electronics and very reliable but whole system next
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> "vehiculeselectriques.free.fr" <[email protected]> wrote: Hel=
> lo,
> 
> These ECU are beautiful electronics and very reliable but whole system next
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 17 Aug 2007 at 17:21, Steve O wrote:
> 
> > Citroen say I need a new ECU.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Steve

have you tried disconnecting the 12v battery at the same time as =

removing one of the fuses of the traction battery? This worked for me in =

a similar (but not identical) situation.

the easiest traction battery fuse to find is just aft of the traction =

battery, there are two (one of which is called a barrette - not sure but =

i think this is diode), they are black, about 2 inches square by 1/2 =

inch with chamfered corners and are attached to the cable which runs =

along the lower forward side of the upper battery module.

If some part of the start sequence is not working just replacing the ECU =

may not be necessary and may not help.



> Steve O wrote:
> > Hi Phillippe
> > =
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Tom
=

Thanks for the advice. I tried a "full reset" as you suggested with no lu=
ck. =

=

Its so annoying not knowing what is actually wrong with the damn thing. =

=

If I ever find out I'll let you know.
=

Steve



> Thomas Ward <[email protected]> wrote:
> Steve
> 
> have you tried disconnecting the 12v battery at the same time as =
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah Ian suggested we checked the fault light. It was there and OK. The mai=
n difference between his and mine is when I bought my berlingo it was actua=
lly working and running with no warning lights! Also there is no obvious bu=
rned up circuitry.
=

Ians motor is fixed anyway. Correct diagnosis with the field coils. Inter=
estingly the chap who fixed the motor said these motors should be taken to =
bits when changing the brushes and fully cleaned out. This is because the c=
arbon from brushes mixes with a tiny amount of gear box oil and makes a nic=
e grinding compound in the motor which is good for knackering the coils. Al=
so 2 of the brushes are impossible to get to without taking the motor to bi=
ts. Just changing the 2 brushes at the top that you can get at is not good =
enough. Just his opinion!!
=

Looking forward to getting Ian's controller back!
=

Steve



> Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> Just a thought, have you checked that the fault light is actually working?
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

it may have been his opinion but very good professional advice you should =
follow
----- Original Message ----- =

From: Steve O<mailto:[email protected]> =

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]> =

Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] another berlingo question


Yeah Ian suggested we checked the fault light. It was there and OK. The m=
ain difference between his and mine is when I bought my berlingo it was act=
ually working and running with no warning lights! Also there is no obvious =
burned up circuitry.
=

Ians motor is fixed anyway. Correct diagnosis with the field coils. Int=
erestingly the chap who fixed the motor said these motors should be taken t=
o bits when changing the brushes and fully cleaned out. This is because the=
carbon from brushes mixes with a tiny amount of gear box oil and makes a n=
ice grinding compound in the motor which is good for knackering the coils. =
Also 2 of the brushes are impossible to get to without taking the motor to =
bits. Just changing the 2 brushes at the top that you can get at is not goo=
d enough. Just his opinion!!
=

Looking forward to getting Ian's controller back!
=

Steve



> Evan Tuer <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> Just a thought, have you checked that the fault light is actually working?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Evan,

I see Ian regularly so I'll let him know. If you happen to run into any useful berlingo parts in France I'll wire you some money. Mainly a working metal box of tricks (ECU etc!!) would be useful!!

Steve



> Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/20/07, Steve O wrote:
> 
> > Ians motor is fixed anyway. Correct diagnosis with the field coils. Interestingly the chap
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Its so annoying not knowing what is actually
> wrong with the damn thing.

I completely agree, I have reluctantly made my own controller which I am =

in the process of installing (slow process with baby+ toddler + job, =

house renovations). If it works I'll let you know, cost of parts is =

about 200 quid but you could do it cheaper. I need about another 10-20 =

hours to complete it but it may be another 6 months before I find them.

good luck with yours.





> Steve O wrote:
> > Hi Tom
> > =
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Tom
=

Wow!! Good luck. Stay in touch and let me know how it goes. Any wiring di=
agrams or advice gratefully received. I'd never thought of building one (or=
rather getting someone to build one!!)
=

Keep me in the loop matey
=

For the moment we are going to try dropping the voltage to 144V by reduci=
ng the pack and strapping in my curtis contoller (1231C) just to see if we =
can pootle around. If it only does 50 rather than 60 then I'd take that for=
now. =

=

Is it possible to alter the charger to 144V or should we go for external =
charging of the reduced pack?
=

Steve



> Thomas Ward <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Its so annoying not knowing what is actually
> > wrong with the damn thing.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Stev O wrote
> Wow!!
don't get too excited, I haven't a clue what I'm doing.

> Any wiring diagrams or advice gratefully received.
maybe when its all finished..... in essence I am following the schematic 
from the peugeot 106 manual which you can find on Phillipe's web site, 
other wiring comes from Application notes from Powerex and Fairchild web 
sites (also IR app notes useful for background). Using a Powerex BG2A 
driver board for the existing armature IGBT. The existing field IGBT and 
driver is replaced by a Fairchild 30A 3 phase intelligent IGBT with 
built in driver. The existing caps and main contactor stay, the 
existing case and cooling stay, existing bus bars and terminals stay. 
relays are DIN rail mountable, MCU is CUBLOC CUSB22 din rail mountable, 
current sensors are LEM hall effect, 24v power for MCU and relays comes 
from an in car laptop PSU.



> Is it possible to alter the charger to 144V
probably possible but probably to much bother and it would age the 144v 
string more than the remainder.
One other option you might consider is to finding some way of dropping a 
fixed amount of voltage before the 144v controller, maybe someone with 
more expertise can think of a solution.
Another way would be to only ever charge to 75%, that way I think you 
should stay within the limits of a 144 V controller, I don't know how 
but it should be easy to have some switch which breaks the supply to the 
charge when the battery voltage reaches 170V (or whatever the safe limit 
of the series controller is).

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