# Water Cooled Controller Heat



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I think likely not enough to make it worth the effort...


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

I have Soliton1 water looped thru my heater core. We just had first "cold" days here in Tampa, about 60F 

Let me tell you, I can't even feel slightest increase in cabin temp from Soliton1, so your idea unfortunately is not practical.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dimitri said:


> I have Soliton1 water looped thru my heater core. We just had first "cold" days here in Tampa, about 60F
> 
> Let me tell you, I can't even feel slightest increase in cabin temp from Soliton1, so your idea unfortunately is not practical.


That's what I was afraid of. Oh well, the idea had merit, but pumping a measly 192 watts probably won't do much at all compared to a 1500 watt heater. 

60F cold? Jeez, that's nice weather! I have had 32F mornings this past week and solid ice on my windshield. So I guess I will have to find a way to install my ceramic heater in my EV AND have the 120 volt AC connection still intact so I can preheat my EV without draining a lot of my pack because it takes about 15-20 minutes to defrost the cars in the morning.


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## WSJ (Sep 18, 2008)

Heated Clothing uses heating panels sewn into each garment creating an even blanket of warmth. Designed to be powered by a 12-volt electrical system.

http://cozywinters.com/heated-clothing/


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

WSJ said:


> Heated Clothing uses heating panels sewn into each garment creating an even blanket of warmth. Designed to be powered by a 12-volt electrical system.
> 
> http://cozywinters.com/heated-clothing/


Those do look interesting, but they don't help with the windshield fogging during the late at night/early in the morning drives.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I think I am going to go ahead and try out pushing the Zilla's water cooling through the heater core. I have found some information that says the Zilla *can* produce 2 watts per motor AMP of heat, which means it could produce enough heat to do something. I cruise at 160 motor AMPs, so that could be 320 watts, more when I hit the numerous hills and try to outrun the semis. If all else fails I have no losses and no pain of full dash removal.

It turns out that adding a ceramic heater where my original heater core involved messing with the AC, and I do not have the means to do that. I still will be working on adding a DC ceramic heater, but I might as well try and use hook up the Zilla to the original heater because it's already there.


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## WSJ (Sep 18, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> I think I am going to go ahead and try out pushing the Zilla's water cooling through the heater core. I have found some information that says the Zilla *can* produce 2 watts per motor AMP of heat, which means it could produce enough heat to do something. I cruise at 160 motor AMPs, so that could be 320 watts, more when I hit the numerous hills and try to outrun the semis. If all else fails I have no losses and no pain of full dash removal.
> 
> It turns out that adding a ceramic heater where my original heater core involved messing with the AC, and I do not have the means to do that. I still will be working on adding a DC ceramic heater, but I might as well try and use hook up the Zilla to the original heater because it's already there.


You could include a small electric hot water tank, pre-heat the water and the car before you start the trip. A few gallons at 200° F could provide a comfortable trip.

http://www.buyplumbing.net/?pg=pd&_i=EMT25&shopping


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have often wondered if it would be worth using controller heat to add to the heat in the cabin and have read that the heat output is insignificant.
Yet if the controller needs to be cooled by a water jacket, presumably because blown air isn't enough then there must be some level of heat output. 
That water jacket must have a heat exchange somewhere to loose the heat so maybe if that heat exchanger could be placed in the heating system up stream from the proper heater so the air is pre heated by a few hundred watts it might help a little.

Alternatively maybe the heat exchanger could be a finned black pipe run on the dash under the windscreen. Then after the heater has demisted the screen the controller can keep it warm.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

WSJ said:


> You could include a small electric hot water tank, pre-heat the water and the car before you start the trip. A few gallons at 200° F could provide a comfortable trip.
> 
> http://www.buyplumbing.net/?pg=pd&_i=EMT25&shopping



I have thought about that, but my engine compartment is so packed that I am not sure where to put the heater tank, though I will investigate that.

Right now I do preheat the EV with a ceramic heater and it does stay warm for a very long time, but I would like a little more just to keep the warm air a little longer.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> ...
> Yet if the controller needs to be cooled by a water jacket, presumably because blown air isn't enough then there must be some level of heat output.


Seems that way, I know, but taking the Soliton1 as an example, the absolute worst case loss (300V/Quiet Mode/~600A) is under 2kW, which over the course of 1 hour comes out to ~6500 BTU. This is also "low grade" heat, hitting maybe a peak of 55C. More typical losses - cruising down the highway at, say, 300A, and with a 192V pack - would result in a downright paltry 400-450W of heat, which is around 1500 BTU. 

In comparison, the typical cabin heater that operates on engine coolant at a temperature of 90-100C delivers somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 BTU. 

I like your ideal of the black/finned tube running along the dashboard, though, and there might be enough heat output - especially from a Zilla Z2K (2W per Ampl) at full bore - to defrost a windshield all by itself, but you'd have to drive at autobahn speeds to get that amount of heat which kinda defeats the purpose... 

I much prefer the idea of keeping the liquid _cooling_ loop for the controller separate from a liquid _heating_ loop for warming up the cabin.

Specifically, look into electric water heater elements to do the latter job. Some care needs to be employed when switching DC - regular relays and contactors just won't do - and your pack voltage needs to be at or below the RMS voltage rating of the element to work (or you need to use PWM to average it down to that point... a product I am going to whip up one of these days since it seems to be useful/desirable).

My two pence, anyway.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I suppose there is the point that when the controller produces enough heat the heat isn't really needed anymore as the car heater would already have warmed the car and de misted the windows.

Equally what relatively little heat the controller does produce needs to be lost effectively to the outside rather then to an already warm interior.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm playing with this setup:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQUUR6
http://www.adventurerv.net/shurflo-nautilus-single-station-water-pump-gpm-p-1713.html

So far I've only tested it on AC voltage without the pump but it heated up quickly. I'll need a relay on the thermostat to switch the pack voltage.


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