# Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

Is the Zilla the only controller that can do series/parallel shifting?
I guess I would rather not use a gearbox but 1600lbs is quite porky
and the only way to keep the amps down would be gears.
Id prefer to do the twin L91 for sure if it could move this weight.
Ive been told a single Warp9 saturates at around 300amps and is 
still risky for direct driving 1600lbs. So the twin L91 should be a
better bet however Id rather use a non watercooled controller.
Can I use any others like 800amp Elektrosistem, Zapi or Logisystem?


Mark Eidson wrote:
> 
> I use a L91-4003 on my bike with 6 Odyssey PC1500 batteries.....my
> final direct drive ratio is 4.74:1, my top speed is 55MPH @ 3000RPM
> limited by battery voltage and range to 80DOD is ~30 miles. The
> highest peak current I've measured on initial full throttle
> acceleration is 700A before the Zilla 1K starts backing off. The
> bike with me on it is 850#. It is really fast to 35MPH. Those Baker
> boxes are expensive.......I would use 2 L91-4003 in a series parallel
> setup with a 120V pack and a similar overall ratio. The higher
> voltage will give a proportionaltely higher top speed. My primary
> belt sprockets are 38 on the motor and 64 on the jack shaft. The
> chain is 16 on the jack shaft and 45 on the rear wheel. me
> 
> http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1231
> 
> 
>


> AMPrentice <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I almost decided on a big DC motor with direct drive when I ran into
> >> aftermarket Baker boxes.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*



> AMPrentice wrote:
> >
> > Is the Zilla the only controller that can do series/parallel shifting?
> > I guess I would rather not use a gearbox but 1600lbs is quite porky
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

Series parallel shifting is done using contactors to rewire the motors on the fly. It happens totally outside the controller. The Zilla has built in logic to control these external contactors. Series parallel shifting can be done with any virtually controller, but without a Zilla you are responsible for implementing it in a manner which does not blow things up.

To understand what needs to be done take yourself mentally throught these steps...

If I had two motors how would I ...
Wire the two motors in series
Wire the two motors in parallel
What wires need to be swapped to go from series to parallel and back
During the swap when is it safe to have voltage applied to the circuit responsible for the reconfiguring the motors and when/how do I ensure that there is no voltage applied.

damon> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 06:07:30 -0700> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?> > > Is the Zilla the only controller that can do series/parallel shifting?> I guess I would rather not use a gearbox but 1600lbs is quite porky> and the only way to keep the amps down would be gears.> Id prefer to do the twin L91 for sure if it could move this weight.> Ive been told a single Warp9 saturates at around 300amps and is > still risky for direct driving 1600lbs. So the twin L91 should be a> better bet however Id rather use a non watercooled controller.> Can I use any others like 800amp Elektrosistem, Zapi or Logisystem?> > > Mark Eidson wrote:> > > > I use a L91-4003 on my bike with 6 Odyssey PC1500 batteries.....my> > final direct drive ratio is 4.74:1, my top speed is 55MPH @ 3000RPM> > limited by battery voltage and range to 80DOD is ~30 miles. The> > highest peak current I've measured on initial !
full throttle> > acceleration is 700A before the Zilla 1K starts backing off. The> > bike with me on it is 850#. It is really fast to 35MPH. Those Baker> > boxes are expensive.......I would use 2 L91-4003 in a series parallel> > setup with a 120V pack and a similar overall ratio. The higher> > voltage will give a proportionaltely higher top speed. My primary> > belt sprockets are 38 on the motor and 64 on the jack shaft. The> > chain is 16 on the jack shaft and 45 on the rear wheel. me> > > > http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1231> > > > > >


> AMPrentice <[email protected]> wrote:> >>> >> I almost decided on a big DC motor with direct drive when I ran into> >> aftermarket Baker boxes.> >> http://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/torquebox/index.htm baker Torque boxes> >> This particular Harley styled trasmission is the strongest they make and> >> are available with the following ratios.> >>> >> 1st 2.75 2.61> >> 2nd 2.05 1.89> >> 3rd 1.55 1.50> >> 4t!
> h 1.18 1.12> >> 5th 1.00 1.00> >>> >> My trike specs are 1600l!
> bs,> >>>
> >> 13.2kwh AGM SLA pack (10 x 120v 110ah)> >> down from 144v pack due to weight.> >>> >> Warp 9 direct drive with Electrosistems IMC 81T 800A 96-144V controller> >> or> >> ADC L91-4003 with transmission with Electrosistems IMC 41T 400A 96-144V> >> controller> >>> >> guesstimate 45-50 mile range @ 80DOD with gears> >> or 40 miles with direct drive.> >>> >> Looking at the internals of the gearbox I think I can get it modified> >> as a 3 speed.> >>> >> If that is the case the question is which are the best ratios?> >> (my guess so far 2.05, 1.55 and 1.00 matched to the rear sprocket)> >>> >> would I need over 2.05?> >>> >>> >>> >> -----> >> Except from himself and other fellow men,> >> Man is the least endangered of all species. - Me> >> --> >> View this message in context:> >> http://www.nabble.com/ADC-L91-4003-with-aftermarket-5-speed-TB5-from-Baker--tp19367643p19367643.html> >> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at> >> Nabble.com.> >>> >> __!
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*



> AMPrentice wrote:
> > Is the Zilla the only controller that can do series/parallel shifting?
> 
> The Zilla is the only one that includes the logic to do it. But you can
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

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by9ldgoK


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

What are people going to do without a Zilla from now on?

I hope an Open source CC design could fruit that can implement
series parallel. The 120 year old tech of CC are more reliable than 
modern systems and as pointed out by the Masters on this forum.
Easier to repair at the sacrifice of some range but allowing direct drive. 
Funds can then be diverted or filtered to a larger diameter motor, 
better quality batteries and even high quality on board chargers.

-----
Except from himself and other fellow men, 
Man is the least endangered of all species. - Me
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ADC-L91-4003-with-aftermarket-5-speed-TB5-from-Baker--tp19367643p19455709.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

It is definitely easier to see what is wrong and fix it, but I doubt it is
more reliable than a well designed modern controller.

Take a look at the Prius for example. It uses a PMSM motor - the controller
is a complex beast compared to a DC controller. Between the controller and
battery is also a voltage booster circuit that raises voltage at the
controller for high motor speed. To achieve even higher speed the motor is
run with field weakening (by demagnetization current). This is just the
electric controller part. Then comes the mechanical coupling of the ICE,
motor, generator, etc. However, this highly complex system is quite
reliable - it has to be for a commercially available car (from Toyota none
the less).

However, if it does break - it is virtually guaranteed that you have no
chance of fixing it yourself; particularly on the roadside.

Fran




> AMPrentice wrote:
> >
> > What are people going to do without a Zilla from now on?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] ADC L91-4003 with aftermarket 5 speed TB5 from Baker?*

You're reading more into this than is warranted. None of the "Masters on this List" currently drive an EV with a Contactor Controller. Ask yourself why? It's because just like any design decision there are pro's and con's to using a contactor controller, and experience has shown them that when all things are considered they prefer modern PWM controllers.

damon

>The 120 year old tech of CC are more reliable than >modern systems and as pointed out by the Masters on this forum.
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/
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