# Duyunov wheel-hub motor



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Hello.
I want to introduce you to a unique electric motor.
By technology, it is possible to produce electric motors and wheel-hub motor.
Please write simple short sentences to make it easier for me to translate.
https://youtu.be/VUv1vUom2Vc
This video was translated and edited by me.
Soon this technology will become widespread.
http://solargroup.pro/bwk577


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
OK for bikes
No use at all for heavy vehicles as torque is roughly proportional to weight and a geared motor will be much lighter than a direct drive motor of the same (high) torque


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Some quick notes:

For electrically assisted bicycles and for very light electric motorcycles, hub motors are already widespread. This is not new.
For general automotive applications, any motor mounted with the hub is too heavy for acceptable suspension performance. The automotive term for this placement of the motor is "unsprung".
Even in those applications where it is okay to have the motor moving with the hubs (as unsprung weight), gearing is required to produce enough power from a reasonable size of motor, as Duncan explained. Some large buses and heavy trucks used geared motors mounted on the axles.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Duncan said:


> Hi
> OK for bikes
> No use at all for heavy vehicles as torque is roughly proportional to weight and a geared motor will be much lighter than a direct drive motor of the same (high) torque


If you do not need speed, just torque.
We have the experience of changing the electric locomotive.
Before the changes, he pulled 5 wagon.
After the changes - 11.
They need not only to pull, but also to begin to pull, which is more difficult.
It did not use a wheel-hub motor, but an electric motor using the same technology.

In gearboxes there is a loss of energy, which is not in wheel-hub motor.
But I think we need to count each case separately.

wheel-hub motor is just an example of the application of technology
you can make any electric motor


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The YouTube video comments link to a website: http://solargroup.pro/bwk577

That website has a section which translates to "The field of application of Duyunova asynchronous motors"... which shows a display model of a Tesla Model S rear drive unit. We known that Duyunova does not supply motors to Tesla, so this certainly looks like the company is attempting to mislead people. If you haven't built a motor for a car, don't show one; if you have prototyped a replacement motor for a Tesla, list that and show the operational installation.

The website does clearly indicate that the company's motors are of the induction type. That would be different from most bike hub motors, although induction bike motors have been discussed in this forum and elsewhere. Perhaps stating the use of an induction design would be helpful. To be fair, I didn't even listen to the video, just scanned through the images; there isn't enough time in life to listen to the endless supply of pointless online videos!

All of the comparisons in the website are to "BLDC" motors, rather than 3-phase AC PM motors. "BLDC" means different things to different people, but in this case it appears to be PM synchronous motors which are driven by switched rather than sinusoidal power; these have been called electronically commutated DC motors. This style of BLDC motor is common in hub motors for bikes, but only used in very small EVs; I'm not aware of any production electric (or hybrid) cars or trucks using them.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Some quick notes:
> 
> For electrically assisted bicycles and for very light electric motorcycles, hub motors are already widespread. This is not new.


1. Now common wheel-hub motor of BLDC technology
There have magnets

Our technology does not have magnets.
These are asynchronous motors (induction).


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> The YouTube video comments link to a website: http://solargroup.pro/bwk577
> 
> That website has a section which translates to "The field of application of Duyunova asynchronous motors"... which shows a display model of a Tesla Model S rear drive unit. We known that Duyunova does not supply motors to Tesla, so this certainly looks like the company is attempting to mislead people. If you haven't built a motor for a car, don't show one; if you have prototyped a replacement motor for a Tesla, list that and show the operational installation..


What kind of photo do you mean?
This photo?
http://solargroup.pro/images/sec-usage/info-card_01.jpg

Maybe the photo is shown as an example of how technology can be applied
I will check with tech support


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Some quick notes:
> 
> For general automotive applications, any motor mounted with the hub is too heavy for acceptable suspension performance. The automotive term for this placement of the motor is "unsprung".


2. Our engine is lighter
Question of the sprung mass is not very complicated, and it is solvable
Now there are negotiations with Nikolay Fomenko, who is doing a super car Marusya.
Very possibly it will make an electric car with our motor wheels


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> If you do not need speed, just torque.
> We have the experience of changing the electric locomotive.
> Before the changes, he pulled 5 wagon.
> After the changes - 11.
> They need not only to pull, but also to begin to pull, which is more difficult.


Every motor application needs torque and speed to do any work. The tradeoff between torque and speed is just a matter of changing gearing.

The only description on the website that I have found is this:


> Donetsk: tests of electric locomotive "Era". After the modification instead of 5 cars "Era" pulls 11 cars.


There is not enough information there to conclude anything. The new motor might simply be bigger.



Skazburg said:


> It did not use a wheel-hub motor, but an electric motor using the same technology.


The same technology is what... an induction motor? Of course, that's the least expensive, longest-established, and most readily available type of motor. The website talks about a patented winding pattern, but it also claims that Duyunov invented the induction motor (which was actually invented about 130 years ago), so what is really being built is not so clear.



Skazburg said:


> In gearboxes there is a loss of energy, which is not in wheel-hub motor.


Yes, but the loss of efficiency of gearing is small compared to the increase in weight, bulk, and cost of the much larger motor needed without gearing.



Skazburg said:


> But I think we need to count each case separately.
> 
> wheel-hub motor is just an example of the application of technology
> you can make any electric motor


Yes, there are many motor configurations and applications... already proven in production. What is this company offering which is special? Certainly not the induction motor type - that's the oldest form of AC motor, the most common in industrial use, and used by many failed electric vehicle companies (and one that has built a lot of cars and not gone bankrupt yet, but has never made a dollar of profit).

If a specific stator winding design (a combination of star-wired and delta-wired stator windings) is the technology, then meaningful comparisons would be between induction motors of common winding configurations and this new winding design... not between an induction motor and a BLDC motor.



I'm sorry if my tone seems very negative, but I have little tolerance for people claiming to have achieved something new and better, when in fact they are just selling the same thing as is already available, and counting on the ignorance of buyers. Perhaps there is some value to this company's products (if there are any real products, rather than just projects and promises), and it is just not being communicated clearly due to language issues.

In another video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVvzJcFCQQo) for apparently the same inventor and motor, there is a claim that asynchronous (induction) motors are used everywhere industry, except in vehicles. I think Tesla Motors would disagree! It also blames the lack of "power electronics" (inverters) for the lack of asynchronous (induction) motors in vehicles; the several makers of suitable controllers would disagree with that one. These claims and some technical illustration are followed by an incoherent rant.

It would certainly help to replace some awkward translations with more common terminology:

motor-wheel -> hub-motor
asynchronous motor -> induction motor
engine -> motor (when referring to an electric motor)
moment -> torque (when referring to motor output)


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> 2. Our engine is lighter


Lighter than what? Lighter the half shaft which connects a motor to the hub in a conventional configuration? I don't think so!



Skazburg said:


> Question of the sprung mass is not very complicated, and it is solvable


I assume you mean unsprung mass. Generations of vehicle designers would be interested in this mechanical design miracle which has been created as a sideline while building a differently-wound induction motor. 



Skazburg said:


> Now there are negotiations with Nikolay Fomenko, who is doing a super car Marusya.
> Very possibly it will make an electric car with our motor wheels


If the possibility progresses beyond the very common state of promised prototype, and becomes and actual car with demonstrated performance, I'm sure many people in this forum would be very interested in hearing about it.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Maybe I'm translating something wrong

Technology of 3 phase motors is not new - it's true
Our main know-how is a special type of winding.
With this technology, you can change (rewind) a normal engine.
You can also design a new one.
Many patents have been received.
There are official tests.
I will try to attach the test reports of engines with a modified winding.

And there is always a choice
Participate now
Or wait
But to lose some of the profits and competitive advantages


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Example of a test report for a modified engine
https://yadi.sk/i/cWl4Nq2l3QNr9t


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> What kind of photo do you mean?
> This photo?
> http://solargroup.pro/images/sec-usage/info-card_01.jpg


Yes.



Skazburg said:


> Maybe the photo is shown as an example of how technology can be applied
> I will check with tech support


Does Ford put a photo of a Rolls-Royce on their website, because the same automotive technology as found in a Ford economy car could be used to build something like a Ferrari? No, but to be fair, a Ford GT is comparable to a Ferrari and there is no Duyunov product comparable to that Tesla drive unit and suspension.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> Technology of 3 phase motors is not new - it's true
> Our main know-how is a special type of winding.
> With this technology, you can change (rewind) a normal engine.
> You can also design a new one.


This is the most direct and reasonable statement I've seen - much better than anything on the website or in the videos.



Skazburg said:


> Many patents have been received.


Long ago, patents meant something. Now they mean that you've done some paperwork. Many patents are now issued for technology which is neither new, nor workable... as long as the applicant has appropriately covered any "prior art". Sad, but true.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> Example of a test report for a modified engine
> https://yadi.sk/i/cWl4Nq2l3QNr9t


Interesting 
Now that would be worth translating.


Although a translation program might think that _motor_ and _engine_ are equivalent, and both could legitimately be used in this context, the normal usage in English is "motor" for an electric motor, and "engine" only for a fuel-burning engine. Using "engine" makes whatever you are translating immediately look like it was written by someone without experience with electric motors.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Interesting
> Now that would be worth translating.
> 
> 
> Although a translation program might think that _motor_ and _engine_ are equivalent, and both could legitimately be used in this context, the normal usage in English is "motor" for an electric motor, and "engine" only for a fuel-burning engine. Using "engine" makes whatever you are translating immediately look like it was written by someone without experience with electric motors.


I do not know German at all
when I studied the document, I looked at the graphics in the main
this is enough for the beginning

I will remember about "engine and motor".


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> Does Ford put a photo of a Rolls-Royce on their website, because the same automotive technology as found in a Ford economy car could be used to build something like a Ferrari? No, but to be fair, a Ford GT is comparable to a Ferrari and there is no Duyunov product comparable to that Tesla drive unit and suspension.


I sent your question to tech support
Soon we will have a site in English German and French
at alteration will take into account

we do not make the suspension only hub-motor and electric motor
and time will show who is better


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> This is the most direct and reasonable statement I've seen - much better than anything on the website or in the videos.
> 
> 
> Long ago, patents meant something. Now they mean that you've done some paperwork. Many patents are now issued for technology which is neither new, nor workable... as long as the applicant has appropriately covered any "prior art". Sad, but true.


our engine can be called 6-phase
because we share a triangle and a star


at us in Russia the patent right very rigid
we have useful models and inventions
a patent for utility model is easy to get
patent for invention is very difficult
because we need novelty
The patent office checks the entire international database before issuing a patent


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

brian_ said:


> Although a translation program might think that _motor_ and _engine_ are equivalent, and both could legitimately be used in this context, the normal usage in English is "motor" for an electric motor, and "engine" only for a fuel-burning engine. Using "engine" makes whatever you are translating immediately look like it was written by someone without experience with electric motors.


I actually do speak some Russian.

Oddly enough, motor in Russian (which is what the OP seems to actually speak and their website is in) is "motop" which is pronounced motor. So, there really is no translation necessary. Russians call it a motor. So, I'm at a loss for why engine keeps coming up here. I guess translation programs just aren't perfect.

I find this motor of theirs to be interesting but it does seem like it'll have all the same pluses and minuses as any other hub motor. They always seem like such a great idea until you try to use one.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

CKidder said:


> I actually do speak some Russian.
> 
> Oddly enough, motor in Russian (which is what the OP seems to actually speak and their website is in) is "motop" which is pronounced motor. So, there really is no translation necessary. Russians call it a motor. So, I'm at a loss for why engine keeps coming up here. I guess translation programs just aren't perfect.
> 
> I find this motor of theirs to be interesting but it does seem like it'll have all the same pluses and minuses as any other hub motor. They always seem like such a great idea until you try to use one.


Do you speak Russian?
Can we talk in skype?


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

this information still requires confirmation
was a meeting with a representative of Ilona Mask


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Looking for a business partner

Six ways to participate and earn in the project.
1. Become an investor. Buy shares of the company. Sell shares when they rise in the price or receive dividends. The minimum investment amount is $ 500. It is possible to pay by installments for 10 months.
2. Upgrade asynchronous motors in your plant and save money. Save by reducing the power consumption and improving other characteristics of the electric motor.
3. Study the project. Tell your friends. Get a percentage of the investment.
4. You rewind the burned engines. Buy a license. Get training on a new winding. Rewind electric motors on a new technology.
5. Contact with the leaders of the company. Order the calculation of the electric motor using the new technology for your equipment. Get a competitive advantage when selling your equipment.
6. Become a dealer. Sell electric motors created using the new technology.

Official site of the project
http://solargroup.pro/bwk577
Sign up and find out more
Invest and earn profit

English version of the site will be soon


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

And I have an important message.
We will soon sell the directory.
It will present some details of the technology and scheme for winding.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Here's a video where the engine is compared, before rewinding and after.
https://youtu.be/tWSod2EIwRQ


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> our engine can be called 6-phase
> because we share a triangle and a star


You can call it "6-phase", but it's not. There are only three phases, 120 degrees apart, no matter how many sets of windings you put that 3-phase power through.



Skazburg said:


> ...
> at us in Russia the patent right very rigid
> we have useful models and inventions
> a patent for utility model is easy to get
> ...


That's all true in theory in the United States, as well. In practice, as long as the application does not conflict with existing patents (referred to as "prior art"), that's good enough for them.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> ... was a meeting with a representative of Ilona Mask


Did you mean Elon Musk? If I were a potential investor, I would not be impressed by a company which can't (or doesn't bother to) even write my name correctly... especially a name with only 8 characters in it.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> You can call it "6-phase", but it's not. There are only three phases, 120 degrees apart, no matter how many sets of windings you put that 3-phase power through.
> 
> 
> That's all true in theory in the United States, as well. In practice, as long as the application does not conflict with existing patents (referred to as "prior art"), that's good enough for them.


3 phases for a triangle, 120 degrees
3 phases for a star, 120 degrees
Between the triangle and the star of 60 degrees
It turns out 6 phases through 60 degrees.
I'm not the main developer, and I can be wrong.


Whoever does the first and keeps the speed, then ahead.
Who copies, that usually behind.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Did you mean Elon Musk? If I were a potential investor, I would not be impressed by a company which can't (or doesn't bother to) even write my name correctly... especially a name with only 8 characters in it.


I am sorry!
When translated by an electronic translator did not pay attention.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

New video for those who know French
https://youtu.be/cv56jt_1Sbc


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Several simple errors in that video.(90Wh/km. = 56Wh/mile. ??)
And i do not see how you can replace a conventional 90+% efficient induction motor, and save an extra 30-50% energy, if you are doing the same work ??
Sorry, but i call BS on the whole deal.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Karter2 said:


> Several simple errors in that video.(90Wh/km. = 56Wh/mile. ??)
> And i do not see how you can replace a conventional 90+% efficient induction motor, and save an extra 30-50% energy, if you are doing the same work ??
> Sorry, but i call BS on the whole deal.


Call BS? I did not understand what is BS?

Errors can be
The video is not mine

About save an extra 30-50% energy - This question is asked constantly
The answer is simple.
1. Induction motor rarely works in optimal mode
2. We are also talking about the specific economy, not clean.
Total savings together with the drive - increase drive performance
It's hard for me to explain this even in Russian, because it's specific knowledge.
The main developer will explain this better.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

BS = Bull Sh!t. Same as crap, or more politely, nonsense. But usually means lies or gross exaggeration intended to fool or impress someone.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> 2. We are also talking about the specific economy, not clean.


The "not clean" part of this doesn't make any sense - another attempt at translation is needed.



Skazburg said:


> The main developer will explain this better.


If that's they guy who I saw in an earlier video babbling about how the world is out to get him and take his invention... no thanks. I think what you need is someone who speaks something other than Russian (English for me, and I could try to understand French or Spanish), who understands the technology.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> The "not clean" part of this doesn't make any sense - another attempt at translation is needed.
> 
> 
> If that's they guy who I saw in an earlier video babbling about how the world is out to get him and take his invention... no thanks. I think what you need is someone who speaks something other than Russian (English for me, and I could try to understand French or Spanish), who understands the technology.


May be - relative save
I can not find the word

This guy on TV showed
https://youtu.be/KlUJltaumJY?t=1m9s
1 minute 9 seconds - main developer - Dmitry Alexandrovich Duyunov

Wait
Others are already operating

Soon there will be other languages


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> New video for those who know French
> https://youtu.be/cv56jt_1Sbc


In the video, the French term "moteur" is used... and again it is translated into "engine". That's what Google Translate does, because "moteur" is used in French for both internal combustion engines and electric motors. However, Google translates "moteur électrique" (in French) to "electric motor" (in English) - not "engine" - yet late in the video (about 3:48) even when the speaker says explicitly "moteur électrique" it is translated to "engine". 

Working between languages is difficult, but someone needs to go to the effort to do it properly, rather than blindly depending on free translation tools, to be taken seriously. The content of this video is trivial, but I can only guess how many real errors have been introduced in translation of other material.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Karter2 said:


> Several simple errors in that video.(90Wh/km. = 56Wh/mile. ??)


The values in Wh/km are consistently converted incorrectly to Wh/mile (obviously dividing by 1.6 instead of multiplying). The speaker only provides the Wh/km values; the Wh/mile values in the captions were apparently calculated by the editor of the video, assuming that an English-speaking audience would find those units more familiar.

While the conversion error is an easy mistake to make, the failure of anyone involved in the advertisement to notice the error is disturbing... and likely indicative of how far this is from a serious technical advance.



Karter2 said:


> And i do not see how you can replace a conventional 90+% efficient induction motor, and save an extra 30-50% energy, if you are doing the same work ??


In addition to that, in this video efficiency and power output seem to be confused.

In the video, there is a claim that test were conducted with the universities of Dusseldorf, Leibzig, and Bologne. So... where are the links to technical reports (perhaps as part of student projects or postgraduate theses) which have met the standards of those universities for academic publication? They would likely be much more informative.



Karter2 said:


> Sorry, but i call BS on the whole deal.


That's what I have been doing from the beginning, but I am interested in whether or not there is some element of genuine and useful technical novelty here.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> 3 phases for a triangle, 120 degrees
> 3 phases for a star, 120 degrees


Good so far, but...


Skazburg said:


> Between the triangle and the star of 60 degrees
> It turns out 6 phases through 60 degrees.


This design is a motor winding pattern, not a power supply change. If there were six separate power conductors carrying AC power phases each 60 degrees apart, then it would be six-phase power. Instead, the motor is supplied with only three power conductors, carrying AC power phases each 120 degrees apart: it is a 3-phase motor with 6 sets of windings.

Connecting more windings to each phase does not create 6-phase power, just as connecting one or more field windings as well as the rotor windings of a brushed DC motor does not make the DC power supply into a multi-phase power supply. If the developer does not understand this, then he doesn't understand anything about motor design.

A graph showing the current in each winding through one cycle of the 3-phase supplied power would be interesting, to show whether or not there is potentially an advantage to including both wiring configurations in the same machine. In addition, the position of the windings around the stator would be needed to illustrate the application of this novel configuration.

If anyone is genuinely interested in real 6-phase (or other higher phase order) induction machines, there has been a lot of legitimate work already done on them. For examples:
_Torque density improvement in a six-phase induction motor with third harmonic current injection_


> ... six-phase induction motors are beginning to be a widely acceptable alternative in high power applications. A typical construction of such drives includes an induction machine with a dual three-phase connection, where two three-phase groups are spatially shifted 30 electrical degrees, a six-leg inverter, and a control circuit.



_Realization of a “3 & 6 phase” induction machine_


> Research has shown higher phase order (HPO) multiphase induction machines as a viable solution to the need of bigger, more reliable machines. Unlike the classical three phase induction machines HPO machines has a stator consisting of a phase number of more than three. Preliminary investigations on five phase induction motors was documented in [1] while much more work was done in modeling and control of five phase machines in [2]–[3] [4]. Six phase induction machines are also well documented in research articles stretching over the last five decades [5]–[6] [7] [8] [9]. Many surveys and reviews were conducted on the state of the art of HPO machines [10]–[11] [12] [13], and documented on the feasibility of HPO induction machines of up to twelve phases.


(In the article, those numbers in [ ] are all references to earlier work)​


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Karter2 said:


> And i do not see how you can replace a conventional 90+% efficient induction motor, and save an extra 30-50% energy, if you are doing the same work ??





Skazburg said:


> About save an extra 30-50% energy - This question is asked constantly
> The answer is simple.
> 1. Induction motor rarely works in optimal mode...


A motor design with a broader range of efficient operation would make sense; however, to improve efficiency by this amount the new motor would need to be perfectly efficient in conditions under which a conventional motor is marginal. That just does not seem plausible, at least for applications (including automotive) in which the motor is driven by an appropriately managed variable-frequency drive.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> In the video, the French term "moteur" is used... and again it is translated into "engine". That's what Google Translate does, because "moteur" is used in French for both internal combustion engines and electric motors. However, Google translates "moteur électrique" (in French) to "electric motor" (in English) - not "engine" - yet late in the video (about 3:48) even when the speaker says explicitly "moteur électrique" it is translated to "engine".
> 
> Working between languages is difficult, but someone needs to go to the effort to do it properly, rather than blindly depending on free translation tools, to be taken seriously. The content of this video is trivial, but I can only guess how many real errors have been introduced in translation of other material.


This is not my video and not the official video


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> ....
> 
> In the video, there is a claim that test were conducted with the universities of Dusseldorf, Leibzig, and Bologne. So... where are the links to technical reports (perhaps as part of student projects or postgraduate theses) which have met the standards of those universities for academic publication? They would likely be much more informative....


http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=933226&postcount=12


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> Example of a test report for a modified engine
> https://yadi.sk/i/cWl4Nq2l3QNr9t


Ah, the Dusseldorf reference. 
Okay, now in a language which I can read. Instead of translating marketing fluff, how about translating meaningful technical content?

I glanced at this earlier, but without reliable translation of even the labels on tables and graphs, it doesn't mean much. I might be able to make sense of French or Spanish material, but German is almost as far out of my range as Russian.

Also, this is a test report entirely without a description of the items being tested, so I have no idea if it a valid comparison. Rather than just paying a professor to have one of his students do a test run as a lab exercise, has one of these universities actually studied the motor?


By the way, even given the most generous possible assumptions about the meaning of this test report, it shows a very small improvement compared to the wild claims of the various videos.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Ah, the Dusseldorf reference.
> Okay, now in a language which I can read. Instead of translating marketing fluff, how about translating meaningful technical content?
> 
> I glanced at this earlier, but without reliable translation of even the labels on tables and graphs, it doesn't mean much. I might be able to make sense of French or Spanish material, but German is almost as far out of my range as Russian.
> ...


Time will show everything
It's not long to wait.
My task was to tell you.
Your task is to make a choice.
Good luck with your choice.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> ...
> My task was to tell you.
> ...


You have failed miserably. I find nothing of value offered or related by you. I don't know who assigned this task to you. They made a foolish choice with you who knows not the language or the technology.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> You have failed miserably. I find nothing of value offered or related by you. I don't know who assigned this task to you. They made a foolish choice with you who knows not the language or the technology.


This is common.
You are not interested, but others.
Already 3000 investors
Even more thinking or waiting for the completion of the preparatory work
Waiting for languages, documents and other things.

No one set me the task.
I take the initiative.
I am not an official person of the project.
It is important for me that the working technology collects the necessary investments.
This is my small contribution to the common cause.

Thank you for supporting the conversation - it raises my professional level.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> Time will show everything
> It's not long to wait.
> My task was to tell you.
> Your task is to make a choice.
> Good luck with your choice.


Given what I have been told, and this pronouncement, the choice is obvious: I would not consider investing a penny. I don't need luck, only knowledge and intelligence.

It does seem possible that somewhere under the hype and miscommunication there might be the seed of a useful technical idea. I hope that the developers eventually choose to contribute that idea to a sound engineering effort, rather than the current get-rich scheme, but I'm not optimistic about the chances.


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> Already 3000 investors


Every week, millions of people buy lottery tickets. Almost all of them lose all the money which they gambled. The size of the group does not indicate the wisdom of their choice.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm beginning to feel guilty for not banning this as a scam ages ago

I hope that none of the 3000 "investors" came from our site or memebers


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Duncan said:


> I'm beginning to feel guilty for not banning this as a scam ages ago...


No problem here! 
It has been an interesting discussion.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Not as crazy/stupid as IAinventor's L-loop and K-loop, but still suspect, especially when begging for investors. Large electric motors are already 95-98% efficient, so twice the efficiency (half the losses) would not be very significant. Stationary motors may be made more efficient by making them larger and heavier with more copper and iron, but vehicular motors may provide a measurable improvement in energy/distance if they are much lighter. 

However, much greater reduction of energy consumption can be realized by other measures, such as better aerodynamics, lower rolling friction, more efficient batteries, and increasing adoption of clean, sustainable electric power to replace machines that use fossil fuel.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

PStechPaul said:


> Not as crazy/stupid as IAinventor's L-loop and K-loop, but still suspect, especially when begging for investors. Large electric motors are already 95-98% efficient, so twice the efficiency (half the losses) would not be very significant. Stationary motors may be made more efficient by making them larger and heavier with more copper and iron, but vehicular motors may provide a measurable improvement in energy/distance if they are much lighter.
> 
> However, much greater reduction of energy consumption can be realized by other measures, such as better aerodynamics, lower rolling friction, more efficient batteries, and increasing adoption of clean, sustainable electric power to replace machines that use fossil fuel.


I will repeat, time will show everything.

You ask such questions that I begin to doubt that you know How the electric motor is used.
Who can tell how often the electric motors is running in optimal mode?
For example, how long the sawmill electric motors operates in the optimum mode.
The electric motor works either in the idle state or under load.
The electric motor is always selected with a margin, sometimes considerable.
The main savings comes in modes other than optimal.


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> ...
> The electric motor works either in the idle state or under load.
> ...


So where you come from, they run the electric motor at idle in the battery powered electric vehicles?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I think we need to appreciate the language barrier and allow this chap the chance to demonstrate the solution being proposed rather than pic on little details and discrepancies in the comments text in posts. 

We're all speculating ourselves until some empirical evidence can be presented... I look forward to seeing some actual details or demonstration.

Cheers

Tyler


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> I think we need to appreciate the language barrier and allow this chap the chance to demonstrate the solution being proposed rather than pic on little details and discrepancies in the comments text in posts.
> 
> We're all speculating ourselves until some empirical evidence can be presented... I look forward to seeing some actual details or demonstration.
> 
> ...


You're welcome to believe what you want, but this guy stinks of being a con man, crook, charlatan, swindler, scammer or whatever word or term your language has for despicable slimeball. I'm with Duncan thinking he should have been banned long ago and sincerely hope none of our members or readers has fallen prey to his BS and are among his "3000 investors". We don't have to "speculate" to call BS when we smell it.

major


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> You're welcome to believe what you want, but this guy stinks of being a con man, crook, charlatan, swindler, scammer or whatever word or term your language has for despicable slimeball. I'm with Duncan thinking he should have been banned long ago and sincerely hope none of our members or readers has fallen prey to his BS and are among his "3000 investors". We don't have to "speculate" to call BS when we smell it.
> 
> major


What is BS?

In December, we released a book - how to change the electric motor.
In the book there are schemes for changing the windings.
Everyone can check the theory.
Do you know how to rewind electric motors in the usual way?

According to the book you can not release a new electric motor.
But you can rewind the standard electric motor.
This book arrived in our institutions of higher learning.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> What is BS?
> 
> In December, we released a book - how to change the electric motor.
> In the book there are schemes for changing the windings.
> ...


https://youtu.be/xidbQgZM3d4
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ACsvaTSyoM/maxresdefault.jpg


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> What is BS?
> 
> In December, we released a book - how to change the electric motor.
> In the book there are schemes for changing the windings.
> ...





major said:


> BS = Bull Sh!t. Same as crap, or more politely, nonsense. But usually means lies or gross exaggeration intended to fool or impress someone.


Yes, I know how to wind a motor, and rewind a motor, and have done so. 

If your technology is published in a book and distributed, why then can you not provide a specific description or explanation in language we can understand? 

Because it is BS.

major


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Major
You and Duncan have valid observations so far but your OPINION is that it is BS, or even your educated judgement perhaps. But there is no need to assume so and expect the forum or everyone else to agree or to ban this person just based on your views.

I respect those views by the way but this person hasn't broken any forum rules so if you don't like what you are reading stop reading it. We can all just wait until we are given the evidence you rightly requested or the thread will simply go silent.

I don't know, condone or have any affiliation with this person, technology or any possible scam etc. I simply expect fair treatment and freedom of speech, however nieve that might be of me.

Skazburg

Please post some legitimate evidence or explanation of this concept you are referring to to help us understand and believe you.

Cheers

Tyler


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> ... this person hasn't broken any forum rules ...


I believe he has. He is selling spam. Just like thousands of other slimeball posts which the mods delete before we ever see them.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

tylerwatts said:


> Major
> You and Duncan have valid observations so far but your OPINION is that it is BS, or even your educated judgement perhaps. But there is no need to assume so and expect the forum or everyone else to agree or to ban this person just based on your views.
> 
> I respect those views by the way but this person hasn't broken any forum rules so if you don't like what you are reading stop reading it. We can all just wait until we are given the evidence you rightly requested or the thread will simply go silent.
> ...


You think this happens only on the Internet.
No, the same happens in real life.
That's why we are doing a laboratory with certified equipment.
In order that no one could say that we are deceiving

This is the graph of the efficiency and rpm.
The bottom line (black) is a standard electric motor.
The top line (red) is our electric motor.

At point "A", the efficiency is almost the same.
But the win is also on other parameters - temperature, overload, metal consumption (in the case of a newly engine engine), and so on.
At other points, the efficiency is higher than for analogs by tens of percent


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I was with you until 
_At other points, the efficiency is higher than for analogs by tens of percent_

That get the "unbelievable" instinct going
If you had a couple of percent - OK - but "Tens of percent" on something that is ALREADY about 90% efficient - 80% on a bad day is a LOOOONG stretch


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> You think this happens only on the Internet.
> No, the same happens in real life.
> That's why we are doing a laboratory with certified equipment.
> In order that no one could say that we are deceiving
> ...


I think your graph is BS. Do you even have a reference as to where it came from? Here is a typical EV motor efficiency curve vs speed. In this case the car is direct drive meaning just a single ratio so the motor RPM is directly proportional to mph. It doesn't look very much like what you posted.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Now THAT is what I expected to see!

And "tens of percent" better is just silly - it's already about 90% over most of it's range


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Duncan said:


> I was with you until
> _At other points, the efficiency is higher than for analogs by tens of percent_
> 
> That get the "unbelievable" instinct going
> If you had a couple of percent - OK - but "Tens of percent" on something that is ALREADY about 90% efficient - 80% on a bad day is a LOOOONG stretch


Average savings of the electric motor together with the mechanism 20%
Our record, after rewinding the efficiency of the electric motor together with the mechanism increased by 63%
But it was a non-standard case.
There was a wrong electromotor for work.
He was with a large margin of excess capacity.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> I think your graph is BS. Do you even have a reference as to where it came from? Here is a typical EV motor efficiency curve vs speed. In this case the car is direct drive meaning just a single ratio so the motor RPM is directly proportional to mph. It doesn't look very much like what you posted.


Miles per hour and rpm?
My graph is about ordinary industrial motors


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

https://www.google.ru/search?q=elec...GEywKHVvqDH0QsAQIJw&biw=1536&bih=727&dpr=1.25


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> https://www.google.ru/search?q=elec...GEywKHVvqDH0QsAQIJw&biw=1536&bih=727&dpr=1.25


And a few more moments
The smaller the engine the less the change in efficiency
Less than 3 kW is not beneficial to rewind
Long pays off
The lower the rpm the better
750 rpm it is more advantageous to rewind than 3000 rpm
There are other nuances


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> Miles per hour and rpm?
> My graph is about ordinary industrial motors


Did you notice that this is an electric car forum?

The efficiency for the motor vs RPM will be similar regardless of the application. The motor does not know it is connected to a vehicle or a conveyor belt or blower or other machinery.

The efficiency graphs you linked are for constant applied voltage motor characteristics and not representative of how motors are used except perhaps for applications like IC engine cranking.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> Did you notice that this is an electric car forum?
> 
> The efficiency for the motor vs RPM will be similar regardless of the application. The motor does not know it is connected to a vehicle or a conveyor belt or blower or other machinery.
> 
> The efficiency graphs you linked are for constant applied voltage motor characteristics and not representative of how motors are used except perhaps for applications like IC engine cranking.


The electromotor does not know with whom it works.
But the electric meter knows.
If you connect the electric motor to the pump, the overall efficiency will be higher than if connected to a sawmill or a crane.
Your drawing causes a lot of questions
For what type of electric motor?
What is the efficiency class? Etc.
But this is not so important right now.
It would be correct to compare two electric motors with some identical characteristics. We will complete the project - we will make comparisons.
Why am I sure? It's simple. Conventional industrial motors made by our technology are the best.
Therefore, if we adapt the technology for an electric car, then the electric motors for cars will also be the best.
The rest will be shown by time. And soon.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

I can write, draw, explain.
And you can always say - I do not believe that this is true.
Therefore, real life will determine who is right.


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> I can write, draw, explain.
> And you can always say - I do not believe that this is true.
> Therefore, real life will determine who is right.


Instead of making BS claims and attempting to support them, why not do what we have requested? Provide technology details. Not just "star-delta" but specifics. We can then judge validity and usefulness.



major said:


> ...
> 
> If your technology is published in a book and distributed, why then can you not provide a specific description or explanation in language we can understand?
> 
> ...


----------



## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Major
I don't want to be disrespectful, but your behaviour and comments could be construed as trolling. If you trust the moderators as you say they have decided there is something to consider from this thread. Why not just stop commenting and wait for the requested evidence. If there isn't any, the thread will die, if there is we'll have something worthwhile to discuss.

Cheers

Tyler


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> ... Why not just stop commenting and wait for the requested evidence.
> ...


I like to challenge BS when I see it presented along with request for "investments". If the guy has something to sell then the proper place is the vendors classified forum. If he desires to share motor technology in this forum, he needs to stop the BS and not solicit "investments".



Skazburg said:


> Looking for a business partner
> 
> Six ways to participate and earn in the project.
> 1. Become an investor. Buy shares of the company. Sell shares when they rise in the price or receive dividends. The minimum investment amount is $ 500. It is possible to pay by installments for 10 months.
> ...


Get the picture?

I'd venture to say that more useful content has been provided by Brian_, Karter2, Paul, and myself than by Mr. Skazburg.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Ok. Most of the contents of this thread is arguements over the premise rather than awaiting the evidence. But I appreciate you probably know better so don't listen to me.

Skazburg
I look forward to hearing more about this technique.

Cheers

Tyler


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> Major
> I don't want to be disrespectful, but your behaviour and comments could be construed as trolling. If you trust the moderators as you say they have decided there is something to consider from this thread. Why not just stop commenting and wait for the requested evidence. If there isn't any, the thread will die, if there is we'll have something worthwhile to discuss.
> 
> Cheers
> ...


Hi Tyler
As an Admin I think you are giving us too much credit - I don't know enough to be sure either way!

But with what I do know I'm with Major - if it sounds too good to be true it normally is


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> ...That's why we are doing a laboratory with certified equipment.
> In order that no one could say that we are deceiving
> 
> This is the graph of the efficiency and rpm.
> ...


It was probably a substantial mistake to link to actual measurements by the professor (or more likely his lab assistant student) at the university of Dusseldorf, then post this vague drawing with claims of improvements far beyond what was actually measured.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> https://www.google.ru/search?q=elec...GEywKHVvqDH0QsAQIJw&biw=1536&bih=727&dpr=1.25


Now that's just insulting! I'm sure that ever reader of this forum is quite capable of typing "electric motor efficiency vs rpm" into a search engine. Many even realize that load is just as important to efficiency as speed, so they would do a better search.

How about doing a few seconds of work and picking one of those images which corresponds to the type of motor which you are actually discussing?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There may just be an issue with semantics. For a nominally 90% efficient motor, a 50% improvement might be 95%. Anything less than 100% is theoretically possible, but better than 98% is highly unlikely for a commercially available motor at a competitive cost point. 

Many claims for huge improvements in efficiency fail by reason of measurement techniques and instrumentation. I have thought I observed efficiency of 99% in a simple DC-DC converter, but I found that the meters on my power supply read about 2% (FS) low, so what I thought was 12.0 volts at 0.10 amps was actually 12.2 volts at 0.12 amps. The output was more accurately measured to be 11.95 volts at 0.10 amps. So, 1.195W/1.20W is 99.6%, but 1.195W/1.44W is 83%. 

Motor efficiency is even more complex to measure accurately. For an AC motor, you need to measure true watts, and output power is a mechanical measurement involving RPM and torque. For EVs, the important measurement is energy consumption based on W-h/mile, and that depends largely on aerodynamics, friction, weight, and efficiency of drive train, batteries, and controller. Increasing the efficiency of the motor from 90% to 95% would likely result only in a 2%-5% increase in overall efficiency, and that could easily be negated by higher cost.


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

PStechPaul said:


> There may just be an issue with semantics. For a nominally 90% efficient motor, a 50% improvement might be 95%.


That's not a 50% improvement in efficiency; a 50% increase from 90% efficiency is obviously 1.50 * 90%, which is 135% (which would clearly be impossible). A change from 90% efficiency to 95% efficiency is a 50% reduction in losses. There is a huge difference between those two statements, and I don't see this as a language issue or some fine point in semantics.

If your employer offers you a 50% pay increase, you don't expect to just get closer to the wage some guy who gets paid a bit more, you expect 50% more money - if you make $9.00/hour now, you expect a raise to $13.50. It's not an obscure concept.

While whittling down the losses is a reasonable way to think of potential improvement in efficiency, none of the wild claims in any of the material that I have seen from this bunch talks about a percentage reduction in losses - that is clearly not what they are claiming.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> Instead of making BS claims and attempting to support them, why not do what we have requested? Provide technology details. Not just "star-delta" but specifics. We can then judge validity and usefulness.


Ask questions.
But remember, I'm not a developer of this technology.
I understood the technology well and checked the technology.
But I can make some mistakes, in small things or in particularly difficult details.

How did I check the technology?
With the help of a friend.
He has an automobile drilling rig for drilling water wells.
We have a difficult rocky ground.
Because of this, he periodically burned an electric motor.
He rewound the electric motor.
Then the electric motor stopped burning, it became more powerful.
And he began to consume less power.

So I learned about the technology.
I was interested in electric motors because I wanted to make a wind generator.
This is my personal product.
https://youtu.be/WmBCA8ShxJQ


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

PStechPaul said:


> There may just be an issue with semantics. For a nominally 90% efficient motor, a 50% improvement might be 95%. Anything less than 100% is theoretically possible, but better than 98% is highly unlikely for a commercially available motor at a competitive cost point.
> 
> Many claims for huge improvements in efficiency fail by reason of measurement techniques and instrumentation. I have thought I observed efficiency of 99% in a simple DC-DC converter, but I found that the meters on my power supply read about 2% (FS) low, so what I thought was 12.0 volts at 0.10 amps was actually 12.2 volts at 0.12 amps. The output was more accurately measured to be 11.95 volts at 0.10 amps. So, 1.195W/1.20W is 99.6%, but 1.195W/1.44W is 83%.
> 
> Motor efficiency is even more complex to measure accurately. For an AC motor, you need to measure true watts, and output power is a mechanical measurement involving RPM and torque. For EVs, the important measurement is energy consumption based on W-h/mile, and that depends largely on aerodynamics, friction, weight, and efficiency of drive train, batteries, and controller. Increasing the efficiency of the motor from 90% to 95% would likely result only in a 2%-5% increase in overall efficiency, and that could easily be negated by higher cost.


You are the closest to an explanation of the reasons.
Bravo
Just need to talk not only about the electric motor but also about the mechanism of the pripod.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Power 0,25 kW
Rated revolutions 750 rpm
Who can tell what efficiency this motor has?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> Power 0,25 kW
> Rated revolutions 750 rpm
> Who can tell what efficiency this motor has?


I give up. Who?


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

I think I see what's going on. This guy has no clue. It is just a waste of time.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

I did not think that this is a difficult question...
For example
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ML-series-electric-car-motor-price_60256587978.html
Efficiency of 60-80 percent
100-80=20; 100-60=40
20-40 percent - is the potential to increase

And if you remember the modes other than the nominal
There is even less efficiency

I know what you say - it's IE1
It's true
But at least all that I said above is also true
You can rewind and get a higher efficiency in the old case.
For IE2 and IE3, the increase in efficiency is not so high
But there are other advantages in using our technology
Less copper and steel
Smaller dimensions


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> ... the mechanism of the pripod.


Okay, what online translator spit out "pripod" as English... and for what Russian word? 

Maybe it's the mechanical system supporting the flux capacitor?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I like the army of robots on the Chinese assembly line! 









Those motors are too small for EVs (other than bikes and garden tractors and the like), being only 1/3 to 5.5 HP, and they are also single phase, which is generally not suitable for EV use. The page description mentions 50 kW, and the overview says 0.16 kW or 1/4 HP, which is an incorrect conversion. Certainly it should be possible to improve the efficiency of these motors, which range from 62% to 79%, but at considerable expense. These are cheap motors ($25 to $105 in 100 piece lots), and Chinese motors are notoriously inferior. Note that larger motors are more efficient, which is typical, and 3 phase motors are also more efficient than a single phase unit of the same size and weight. Perhaps a six phase motor could be even more efficient, but likely not cost effective because of special controller and additional wiring.

Clearly, actual test data is needed for further discussion.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Okay, what online translator spit out "pripod" as English... and for what Russian word?
> 
> Maybe it's the mechanical system supporting the flux capacitor?


 
I did not find the right word and in addition I made a mistake.

It was about what can be attached to the electric motor.
Reducer, fan, pump, any mechanism.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

PStechPaul said:


> I like the army of robots on the Chinese assembly line! ...............
> Clearly, actual test data is needed for further discussion.


Yes, I agree with you - we need more facts.
I will tell the news.
At the moment, about 2 million dollars have been collected.
The equipment for a certified laboratory has already been purchased or procured.
Measuring stands, 3D printers, and so on.
First, the most popular electric motors will be re-engineered and the batch of motor hub wheels for the bicycle will be released.
Bicycles will either be sold or given for testing for a while.
The solution is not yet available.


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> Power 0,25 kW
> Rated revolutions 750 rpm
> Who can tell what efficiency this motor has?





major said:


> I give up. Who?





Skazburg said:


> I did not think that this is a difficult question ...





Skazburg said:


> ... it's IE1 ...


That's it? The answer is IE1?


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> That's it? The answer is IE1?


Efficiency - 58%
class - IE1


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> Efficiency - 58%
> class - IE1


From your question and answer, any 0.25 KW motor rated at 750 RPM is 58% efficient. And please explain how this relates to the thread topic and/or electric cars.


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> It was about what can be attached to the electric motor.
> Reducer, fan, pump, any mechanism.


Ah - "accessories" or "ancillary systems"... which has nothing to do with motor efficiency.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

major said:


> From your question and answer, any 0.25 KW motor rated at 750 RPM is 58% efficient. And please explain how this relates to the thread topic and/or electric cars.


We started with the motor hub wheels for the bike and car.
Then you began to doubt our success.
And I began to tell on bright examples what we achieved.
So the theme from electric motors for cars shifted to industrial electric motors.
As you have already said - industrial electric motors are close to automotive electric motors.
They have the same problems and difficulties.
We have a lot of experience when working with industrial electric motors.
This experience we now transfer to the motor hub wheels.
Since we are the best in industrial electric motors, then we can assume that our motor hub wheels will compete well with existing ones.
Motor hub wheels with combined windings Duyunova is a new technology for ectric transport.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Ah - "accessories" or "ancillary systems"... which has nothing to do with motor efficiency.


I could not choose the word for a special kind of efficiency.
I'll try to explain.
There is efficiency.
We can see it on the motor plate.
There is efficiency per unit of work done.
In the case of combined Duyunov windings, the nominal mode of the electric motor is shifted to a larger side.
The electric motor becomes more productive.
If you carry out tests without accessories, then the maximum efficiency can remain the same.
But the efficiency factor per unit of work, will increase by 5%, 10%, etc.
It depends on how correctly the electric motor was selected.
(before rewinding for this accessory)


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

There is another point about which many are silent.
The efficiency diagrams that are produced for advertising brochures are obtained for ideal conditions.
Our main experience is the redesign of electric motors for working conditions.
We did not have the capacity to create a large number of new designs for electric motors.
Doing a new design manually without machine tools is very expensive.
But we are working on it.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

We are still keen to see any details of your bike and car hub wheel motors.


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

1. Write your questions. What details are interested to you?
2. If I can organize a webinar (in English or with a translation), how many people will want to visit it? Write in the subject.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Price.
Performance.
Package.
Proof.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Voltage (DC battery supply)
Rated power ..Watts
RPM at rated voltage
Controller type required , ..recommendations ?
Max phase current
Sensored or sensorless ?
Fitting width for bike drop outs
Axle diameter
Phase wire gauge 
Number of spoke holes on diameter
Weight
Diameter (a drawing with dimentions ?)


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Skazburg
As Karter says. And from your comments, can I assume you are rewinding an existing motor or is this a totally new design?

Cheers

Tyler


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

tylerwatts said:


> Skazburg
> As Karter says. And from your comments, can I assume you are rewinding an existing motor or is this a totally new design?
> 
> Cheers
> ...


The first rewind was about more then 20 years ago.
3 years ago a group of rewinders was formed in different cities of Russia.
When was the first totally new design and other questions I will clarify.


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

Dont make it hard to understand.
Its just an Induction Motor with combined Delta-Wye winding.as you must remember before vfds this method used for reducing starting current of line started Induction Motors.
It locally called "Slavyanka"


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

sjd.aliyan said:


> It locally called "Slavyanka"


That is quite helpful 

A quick web search just using the keywords and "Slavyanka" and "winding" leads to more information than we have seen in this entire discussion!


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

brian_ said:


> That is quite helpful
> 
> A quick web search just using the keywords and "Slavyanka" and "winding" leads to more information than we have seen in this entire discussion!


AS&PP
http://www.as-pp.asia/index.php/en/


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The motor test results were interesting, but nothing to get very excited about. It is not surprising for a custom wound motor to be better than an ordinary commercially available mass produced motor. Particularly, winding density can be improved by maybe 10-30% using careful hand winding and packing techniques, and other parameters can be tweaked. 

http://arestov.de/images/pdf/AEG100L-BA-3Kw.pdf

The graphs were quite interesting. Efficiency was best for the lowest current value, and peaked near the nominal speed (about 4000 RPM). Efficiency is calculated as power out vs power in, and the difference is the power loss. This graph was done with constant current, which is also essentially constant torque, and the losses gradually increased up to the nominal RPM, and then increased at a much faster rate. 

It would also be reasonable to surmise that even greater efficiency could be obtained at lower current and power levels. It would probably be easy to make a motor that is 95% efficient if it is twice the size and weight (and cost). Also, this was a two pole pair motor rated at 70 VAC, maximum speed 4000 RPM, with a 104 VDC battery pack, so it was not possible to overclock the motor with V/Hz beyond the graph maximum of 4800 RPM. In fact, one or more graphs showed field weakening because the battery voltage dropped to 91 volts at 2000 RPM and 350 amps. I think two pole pairs means a 4 pole motor with nominal speed of 1800 RPM at 60 Hz or 1500 RPM at 50 Hz, so it may have been designed for 133 Hz (2*4000/60).

I found an interesting article about stator winding:

http://what-when-how.com/electric-motors/stator-winding-design-considerations-electric-motors/

The author states that he has achieved packing density of 63-73% while practical values are 40-50%. This alone could account for the modest improvement of efficiency for the custom wound motor.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

sjd.aliyan said:


> Dont make it hard to understand.
> Its just an Induction Motor with combined Delta-Wye winding.as you must remember before vfds this method used for reducing starting current of line started Induction Motors.
> It locally called "Slavyanka"


Yes, sometimes it is called "Slavyanka"
Did I forget to write this?
Maybe.
Inductive motor with combined windings.
Lead developer Duyunov.
Now we equip a certified laboratory so that no one can say that we are talking a lie.
This video has already been seen by many
https://youtu.be/VUv1vUom2Vc
Here our technology is adapted for cars
40 watts hour per kilometer of path
There are subtitles
https://youtu.be/RScPiKRworY


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Some news.
1. As I said, the technology is already 20 years old.
But the first motor hub wheel with the winding "Slavyanka" was made in 2015.

Who will say what is the main difference between a simple industrial electric motor and a motor hub wheel?

2. We began computer modeling of electric motors with a modified winding and a completely new design.
Total according to the plan 70 models
The first electric motor ADMM 56A2, power 0.18 kW, 3000 rpm, the efficiency class IE1, efficiency of 60%
The efficiency class IE1
Efficiency of 60%
Here are the diagrams
blue color - electric motor unchanged
red - old housing new winding
green - like red but with increased induction
red dotted - new electric motor new winding
Green dotted - as red dotted but with increased induction


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

The characteristics of real electric motors will be written after we launch a certified laboratory.
Almost all certified equipment has already been purchased.
Preparatory construction work is in progress in the industrial room.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Skazburg said:


> Some news.
> 1. As I said, the technology is already 20 years old.
> But the first motor hub wheel with the winding "Slavyanka" was made in 2015.
> 
> ...


Simple industrial electric motor typically is good application.

Motor hub wheel is poor application.



Skazburg said:


> ...
> 
> 2. We began computer modeling of electric motors with a modified winding and a completely new design.
> Total according to the plan 70 models
> ...


Isn't wheel speed about 700-800 RPM? Then from your graph you have made an increase of 50% in efficiency. From 8% to 12%.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Skazburg said:


> Who will say what is the main difference between a simple industrial electric motor and a motor hub wheel?


 Most industrial motors operate at a *fixed speed, 1800 - 3000 rpm*
Most wheel hub motors have to operate a *variable speed from 0 - 1000rpm....and most of the time below 500rpm*.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

A practical wheel hub motor would probably have 12 poles, which can easily be wound on a 36 slot stator. It would have a base RPM of 600 RPM at 60 Hz, and could be overclocked to 1800 RPM at 180 Hz. A 600 mm (24 inch) wheel spins at 880 RPM at 100 km/h (62 MPH). So even with 12 poles, you can't take advantage of the greater power per unit size that can be obtained by overclocking. Perhaps a 72 slot rotor could be wound for 24 poles. But there is also the principle that higher pole counts tend to result in lower power for a given size. For instance, I have three similar size 3 phase motors:

2 pole, 3600 RPM, 2 HP
4 pole, 1800 RPM, 1.5 HP
8 pole, 900 RPM, 1.0 HP


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

The first thing I would mention.
In an industrial motor, the rotor is inside the stator.
And in the motor wheel - stator inside the rotor.
Second, I agree with you - rpm.
Industrial electric motors have models with 1000, 750, 375 revolutions per minute.
But they have very low efficiency.
The lower the rated RPMs, the lower the efficiency.
This is for the wheel motor as well.

Winding "Slavyanka" gives a greater increase efficiency
- at low nominal rpm.
- for large dimensions.
- for more poles.
IF the lower the rpm, the larger the dimensions, the more poles, then the greater the increase efficiency.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Structure Duyunov wheel-hub motor
https://youtu.be/M8tPHzaAcUA
This wheel was on the scooter
Wheel after crash
Traces of burning of varnish on windings are visible
Despite this - the wheel continued to work
But with less efficiency


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

Do you have an Email i have some questions and i cant send you private massages.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

sjd.aliyan said:


> Do you have an Email i have some questions and i cant send you private massages.


I saw your two personal messages.
Answered.
Write if you did not receive it.
My E-Mail
skazochnik.eburg  gmail  com


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Yesterday I asked the main developer on the webinar.
How much will the weight of the electric motor with the new design with the winding "Slavyanka", if compare with the standard at the same power?
The answer is that the weight decreases 2.5 times, approximately.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

A standard 5 HP 200V 50 Hz 4 pole (1500 RPM) motor can produce 12.5 HP at 500 volts 125 Hz 3750 RPM. We need specs like that to evaluate the improved performance.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

PStechPaul said:


> A standard 5 HP 200V 50 Hz 4 pole (1500 RPM) motor can produce 12.5 HP at 500 volts 125 Hz 3750 RPM. We need specs like that to evaluate the improved performance.


I talked about weight.
For example.
Standard - power 0.18 kW, 3000 rpm, weight 3.5 kg
"Slavyanka" - power 0.18 kW, 3000 rpm, weight 1.4 kg


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

A 180 watt (1/4 HP) motor is hardly applicable to EVs. Here are some weights for standard 60 Hz industrial 3 phase induction motors, from:
http://factorymation.info/motors/weggeneralpurpose.pdf

1/4HP 2P 20 lb 9.0kg 80 lb/HP
1/4HP 4P 21 lb 9.5kg
1/4HP 6P 21 lb 9.5kg

1HP 2P 26 lb 11.8kg 26 lb/HP
1HP 4P 29 lb 13kg
1HP 6P 42 lb 19kg 42 lb/HP

2HP 2P 34 lb 15.4kg 17 lb/HP
2HP 4P 36 lb 16.3kg 8 lb/HP

These are ODP frame 56 and 56H motors, so the standard frame is a large part of the reason for the non-proportional relationship between HP and weight. An optimally designed 1/4 HP motor might be 1/8 the weight of a 2 HP motor, and would then be about 2kg. With 2x overclocking, the motor could be half the weight. So now we are less than the equivalent Slavyanka motor. 

As motor sizes go up to that typically used in EVs, namely 5-30 HP, power to weight ratio is more consistent:

5HP 2P 64 lb 12 lb/HP
5HP 4P 68 lb 13 lb/HP
5HP 6P 145 lb 29 lb/HP
5HP 8P 232 lb 46 lb/HP

10HP 2P 136 lb 13.6 lb/HP
10HP 4P 134 lb 13.4 lb/HP
10HP 6P 206 lb 21 lb/HP
10HP 8P 373 lb 37 lb/HP

20HP 2P 167 lb 8.3 lb/HP
20HP 4P 182 lb 9.1 lb/HP
20HP 6P 470 lb 23 lb/HP
20HP 8P 537 lb 27 lb/HP

Note that 4 pole motors could be rewound and overclocked to twice the power, 6 pole to 3x the power, and 8 pole to 4x the power. So an 8 pole 20 HP motor could be clocked at 240 Hz to get 3600 RPM at 80 HP, and 6.7 lb/HP. More impressive would be the 4 pole 20 HP motor at 120 Hz, 3600 RPM, 40 HP, for 4.1 lb/HP. Your 1/4 HP motor is 12.3 lb/HP.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

We finish the preparation of the lab room.
After the floor is poured, the installation of the equipment will begin.
Part of the equipment is seen in this video.
For example, tables, loaders, sensors and so on.
https://youtu.be/rA4K-f_zr2Q


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

We test the equipment, set it up.
Already came several dozen common industrial electric motors, and also we test wheel hub motor.
The first tests are confirmed by the mathematical calculations of Slavyanka.

Important news.
The site and office were translated into 12 languages.
8 are already ready completely, including English.
4 will be soon.
Also you can visit webinars in English, which will launch soon.
On the webinar, you can ask questions, those who speak the language better than I do.
Also, the main developer will answer questions there.

To receive invitations to webinars, you need to register on the site.
Links for registration
http://reg.solargroup.pro/bwk577
http://solargroup.pro/bwk577
If you ask the invitation code - bwk577
Also in other languages will be news, videos and more.

Also, as a bonus, after registration, I can give you a link to a little-known Russian forum on the winding Slavyanka.
Write me a private message, after registration.
Forum, although in russian, but there are a lot of pictures, reports of rewind, and other things.
An electronic translator will help you.

Now we are preparing a room for machining.
There will be a melting furnace, CNC machines, a winding machine, and other things.
Follow the news and be the first.


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## Frigzy (Sep 18, 2016)

I would be cautious with those guys - aggressive marketing and lack of technical details. They flooded the entire internet with "give us your money" sort of ads. I can read Russian (that's where the company from) and the thing looks like a scam for me. I might be wrong about that, just my 2 cents.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Frigzy said:


> I would be cautious with those guys - aggressive marketing and lack of technical details. They flooded the entire internet with "give us your money" sort of ads. I can read Russian (that's where the company from) and the thing looks like a scam for me. I might be wrong about that, just my 2 cents.


There are a lot of technical details, prototypes, tests, witnesses, test reports.
But this is not enough for some people, including large investors.
For this, we create a certified laboratory, so that no one else can accuse us of lying.
At this forum, some people doubt, too.
This is normal.
In addition, I was hampered by a poor knowledge of English.
Therefore, we temporarily stopped the dynamic discussion, until new data appears.
The data already appears, the equipment is started and so on.
In the meantime, I tell you how we equip the laboratory.
Those who want to ask complex questions to the main developer will be able to do this on webinars, which will soon be launched in other languages.
To do this, it is enough to register on the site.
You do not need to pay money to listen a webinars or ask questions.
In this topic there should be no discussion of the economic part of the project.
You can write me private messages.
Or I can create a separate topic in the "Chit Chat" section, if the moderators do not mind.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Here, Denzel used our technology for his electric motor.
https://www.facebook.com/denzelbike/videos/1809828332654483/


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It should not be that difficult to post a set of specifications for a motor. That would include continuous power, voltage, current, frequency, RPM, torque, and efficiency. Also size and weight, maximum RPM, locked rotor torque, power factor, and overload duty cycles. Just the same sort of specs that are available for most any industrial three phase motor.

The video shows the motor being used in a motor bike on and off road. It uses a Kelly KAC7230H controller, which is good for 24-72 volts, 300 amps peak (30 sec), 120 amps continuous, and up to 250 Hz. So 8.6 kW or 11.5 HP. Not bad for $219.

http://kellycontroller.com/kac7230h24v-72v300aac-induction-motor-controller-p-1467.html


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

PStechPaul said:


> It should not be that difficult to post a set of specifications for a motor...
> 
> The video shows the motor being used in a motor bike on and off road. It uses a Kelly KAC7230H controller, which is good for 24-72 volts, 300 amps peak (30 sec), 120 amps continuous, and up to 250 Hz. So 8.6 kW or 11.5 HP. Not bad for $219.
> 
> http://kellycontroller.com/kac7230h24v-72v300aac-induction-motor-controller-p-1467.html


Thanks for the link.

The electric motor is new.

Motor characteristics:
Diameter 135 mm
Diameter of ribs 145 mm
Length 170 mm
Diameter of the rotor 80mm
Length of rotor 73 mm
Outer diameter of the stator 120 mm
Inner diameter of stator 81 mm
6 poles
Weight 10.5 kg

Maximum direct current without overheating: 90A
Peak current 250 A (2 minutes)
Peak current 350 A (10 s)
The maximum speed of 5000 ob.minutu
Torque from start 35 Nm (on the shaft)
The maximum torque is 55 Nm (on the shaft)

The electric motor is prepared for testing in the laboratory.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Da90


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I calculate rated power of *4.4* kW (5.9 HP) at 1200 RPM and 60 Hz. It may be able to produce *17.6* kW (23.6 HP) at 4800 RPM and 240 Hz. From the *90A* continuous current per phase and 4.4 kW total I calculate *28* volts phase-to-phase. For *10.5* kg (23 lb) I get *3.9* lb/HP. That is quite a bit better than the *21* lb/HP of a standard 10 HP 6 pole industrial motor. 

A more fair comparison would be to a standard AC-9 EV motor, which weighs *50* pounds and produces *28* HP, for *1.78* lb/HP. But that is at *4000* RPM. Your motor would put out about *20* HP at 4000 RPM, which gives it about *1.15* lb/HP. So, if that is true, your motor does beat the AC-9.










It appears that the AC-15 motor is the same size and weight, but rated at *96* volts rather than *48* volts. And it can produce *60* HP. So that is *0.83* lb/HP, which beats your motor. So, it seems you just have a pretty good, but not exceptional, motor.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

The electric motor "DA-90" is only rewound, but not designed again.


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## Mobilis (May 12, 2018)

Well, I would just say, that without magnets, it should not be possible to use ferrofluid as cooler for hub-motors.
But if the motor is "open", on one side, as I can see on ebike video, it's much better for cooling, than a closed aluminium body.
It's not just a question , about increasing theorical efficiency, we should keep in mind, that in real commuting life, electric direct drive motors, could burn easely under heavy load, at slow rotations.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Mobilis said:


> Well, I would just say, that without magnets, it should not be possible to use ferrofluid as cooler for hub-motors.
> But if the motor is "open", on one side, as I can see on ebike video, it's much better for cooling, than a closed aluminium body.
> It's not just a question , about increasing theorical efficiency, we should keep in mind, that in real commuting life, electric direct drive motors, could burn easely under heavy load, at slow rotations.


If I understood correctly, within the "BLDC" can be a special liquid cooling?
This is news to me.
Can you give links?

The electric motor shown video was opened specially.
But not for cooling, but for demonstration tests with water and mud.

Inductive motors with Slavyanka, are less heated than usual.
Serial samples are likely to be closed.
To reduce the possible overheating, separate solutions will be applied.
Solutions are both standard and new.
Applications for patents have already been sent.


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## steveob (Nov 10, 2017)

this long winded cock and bull story of a sales job (ooh, it *almost* spun the wheel when unloaded on gravel) belongs somewhere else.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Skazburg
I have deleted your thread with the dubius financing system

This time I did not ban you 

No more warnings


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Duncan said:


> Skazburg
> I have deleted your thread with the dubius financing system
> 
> This time I did not ban you
> ...


I understood


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## steveob (Nov 10, 2017)

Skazburg said:


> Applications for patents have already been sent.


ahem, prior art (and I'm sure this isn't the only incident)
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5492208/

I did look at hybrid wye/delta in simulation (before I noticed that paper), and the main glitch seems to be keeping it balanced. You can offset the star belts by some number of degrees and get it back (and use like 3x as much wire on the delta as the star to balance power), but then you basically have a 3 phase motor, and the delta winding while making as much power as the star, takes up 3x the copper fill, does not compute, getting into shady pole motor territory.

It is wonky. Is there someone else we can talk to who actually knows what they are talking about? You not knowing what you are talking about got old pages ago, and you have repeatedly stated that you don't really know what you are talking about, so I don't want to talk to you.


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## steveob (Nov 10, 2017)

anyway, you have logged in and seen at least one example of prior art, so you now have an obligation to inform the patent office.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

steveob said:


> anyway, you have logged in and seen at least one example of prior art, so you now have an obligation to inform the patent office.


I agree with you.
In Russia, a very developed and complex patent law.
Before Duyunov combined the star and the delta, this tried to do Ialovega (аnd if you look at history, you can reach Tesla).
Ialovega did it, but very little, because he could not create a mathematical model.
Ialovega was unable to create a system of calculations for a new combined type of windings.
Later, Ialovega migrated to the United States.
We, unlike Ialovega, have a systematic understanding of how to design and build similar electric motors.
To this we moved about 20 years.


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## Mobilis (May 12, 2018)

About magnetic ferrofluid "cooling", there are very nice recent research studies, that Justin, from Grin tech, explained at this link: 
Ferrofluids : Join The Ebike Motor Cooling Revolution (ebikes.ca)
Commercial name is "Statorade", and some people make DIY such mixture, with high temperature oil , and video tape ferric oxyde nanoparticles.
Be careful with low cost bottles. Low flash point temp oil, is just for scholar science.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

administrators thank you very much for the restoration the forum

I have not written for a long time, I have a lot of news on technology.
The largest is an agreement with WeiHai province in China.
Below are pre-plant tests.
https://youtu.be/6p2AgTqyww4


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Video shows the tests and characteristics of the vehicle Denzel Mini motor rewind of "Slavyanka" technology.
https://youtu.be/Rb7Ys_aBZPM


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Friends, if anyone wants to order an electric motor DA90S with a winding "Slavyanka", write to me.
The motor is shown in the video links above.
The price is $ 350 plus shipping costs to your country.
It is possible to supply the controller Curtis or another.
Order an electric motor and carry out tests.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

DA-90S
Rated power 3 kW
Maximum in peak to 20 seconds 9,4 kW
Max. Peak moment at 350A - 74Nm
Voltage 72V (60-85V recommended)
Weight 10.5 kg


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Now the news.
We brought to our laboratory two electric motors using BLDS technology.
First
QS72V2000W 15.7kg/12.3kg
Second
QS48V800W 11kg/8kg
In this video you can see the data on the rim of the wheel
https://youtu.be/6AJtvGOYHUs
These electric motors we compare with our wheel-hub motor 318 diameter. (Hanging on the wall)
20000W 20kg
Wait for details


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I look forward to this. Is it possible to rewind my motor with your technique and continue to use my existing controller or must the controller be reprogrammed?
Or should I buy your motor and can I use it with my controller, Sevcon Gen4 size 2?
Thank you


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

I can not say anything about such a controller.
The controller must be trained after rewinding.
We used Curtis most often.

What is your electric motor?
What country do you live in?
Do you have experience changing the windings?


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Build an 8kw hub motor setup for 14” 4 lug Honda car rims, seal with double HD bearings and coolant lines and you might have something


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Skazburg said:


> I can not say anything about such a controller.
> The controller must be trained after rewinding.
> We used Curtis most often.
> 
> ...


Hi
It is Sevcon Gen4 size 2 and Proud Eagle motor from Vmoto E-Max V120L+.

http://www.proud-eagle.com/product.asp?plt=30&Pone=5

I have no experience or desire to rewind motors. I am in the UK.

I would not have experience or skills to reprogram the controller either. 

My desire is to get much better performance from the same size/components for better performance.

Thanks


----------



## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Hello, friends.

I have not written for a long time, but there is a lot of news, and most of them are very good.

The most important news is that we became residents of the Technopolis Moscow special economic zone on the territory of Alabushevo.
This means that our project is checked state structures.
This means that we save on taxes.
This means that we are starting to build an engineering center. Our existing laboratory continues to work. In the new building will be something similar to the laboratory, but on a larger scale.
https://technomoscow.ru/residents/energy
https://technomoscow.com/tenants/energy
On the English version of the page is only a trademark.

China has given our project partners state grant.
This confirms the recognition of scientific developments at the state level in China.

Testing of the DA90S and DA100S electric motor continues.
Here are the latest data
https://youtu.be/OCucFjG4PwM







Remind you, these are upgraded electric motors, and not designed from the beginning. Electric motors designed from the beginning will have even better characteristics.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

Hello, how are you.

In about a year, the construction will be completed and the building will be put into operation.
A lot of things have happened during this time.
Experimental batches of electric motors, contracts, new patents, small-scale production at third-party production sites, etc.
And all this happens because of the investments being collected.
You can still become investors in the project.
Also now there is a promotion - when you register, you will be given 200 shares. It's not much, but it's a gift.
Link to registration





Duyunov's motors


Российский Промышленный Проект




reg.solargroup.pro




There you can also find a lot of news and videos.
There is also a video in English.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

It's illegal to publicly solicit shares in the US...fyi


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Skazburg said:


> Hello, friends.
> 
> I have not written for a long time, but there is a lot of news, and most of them are very good.
> 
> ...


What I find particularly impressive about your hub motor, looking at its curves, is it supports vehicle speeds of 400km/hr.

🤦‍♂️


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Not sure we can currently buy one here in the US of A, or import one. Seems to be an embargo occurring.

Also pretty sure a curtis won't support 400km/hr


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> Not sure we can currently buy one here in the US of A, or import one. Seems to be an embargo occurring.
> 
> Also pretty sure a curtis won't support 400km/hr


At the moment, our partner in China is mass-producing electric motors.
Have problems ordering to the USA from China?
You can always order through a third country.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> What I find particularly impressive about your hub motor, looking at its curves, is it supports vehicle speeds of 400km/hr.
> 
> 🤦‍♂️


What 400 km/h are we talking about?
Give a link


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> It's illegal to publicly solicit shares in the US...fyi


It seems to me that you are confusing stocks and shares.
I do not know how it will be exactly in English.
Shares are bought out first.
After the construction is completed, the shares will be converted into stocks.
Now the project is registered in the English jurisdiction.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Skazburg said:


> What 400 km/h are we talking about?
> Give a link


Link?
😂

It's a hub motor - you have no clue of what you are cheerleading, do you?


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> Link?
> 😂
> 
> It's a hub motor - you have no clue of what you are cheerleading, do you?
> ...


This chart is about DA90S and DA100S.
They are not hub motors.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

The first lot of electric motorcycles will be in the USA soon.
These electric motorcycles are equipped with engines upgraded according to our technology.
Connect to our project





Duyunov's motors


Российский Промышленный Проект




reg.solargroup.pro


----------



## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

Am I interpreting this correctly? "Slavyanka" simply means the motor is wound WYE and delta at the same time? 

I'm assuming the 2 winds match pretty closely with the same Kv. Otherwise, if 10 turns is 70kv in Delta, it's 41.1kv in WYE. I assume the 2 sets of windings would fight each other for RPM and the motor would be much worse.

With 2 sets of windings and 2 sets of bEMF on the same phase wires, the bEMF has got to be a mess! I bet that looks real interesting on an o-scope!


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> Am I interpreting this correctly? "Slavyanka" simply means the motor is wound WYE and delta at the same time?
> 
> I'm assuming the 2 winds match pretty closely with the same Kv. Otherwise, if 10 turns is 70kv in Delta, it's 41.1kv in WYE. I assume the 2 sets of windings would fight each other for RPM and the motor would be much worse.
> 
> With 2 sets of windings and 2 sets of bEMF on the same phase wires, the bEMF has got to be a mess! I bet that looks real interesting on an o-scope!


This is simplistic.
But yes, it is.
Precisely because it's not that simple, no one has replicated the technology yet.

If you are interested, I can look for a photo to compare ordinary windings and "slavyanka".


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

Skazburg said:


> This is simplistic.
> But yes, it is.
> Precisely because it's not that simple, no one has replicated the technology yet.
> 
> If you are interested, I can look for a photo to compare ordinary windings and "slavyanka".


OK...what's different about a Slavyanka wind and winding the same stator with both delta and WYE? I assume you use the same wind method too...aka something like LRK on both right? The only detail left is making sure the Kv of each wind is similar so they don't fight each other and that's just turns per tooth. What else is there?

I've wound outrunners and hub motors myself...this isn't rocket science.
Please post that comparison. I am interested if for no other reason than curiosity.

Also, you are in Russia. Your country has invaded Ukraine and is attempting to take from them what does not belong to Russia. Your president threatened nuclear war! As a result, your country is under many trade sanctions and other penalties so that they stop the tyranny against Ukraine. You are probably fully aware of the near death sentence of people in Russia for dissenting against that tyranny! Nearly the entire world is against Russian actions in recent history! I'm so sorry that the Russian people are also under that same tyranny!

How is it you are exporting your hardware during these times of invasion of Ukraine and trade sanctions? I guess get them made in China so it's not really a Russian product.


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

Quoted from: Duyunov's motors
"The peculiarity of Slavyanka is combining two winding types in one electric motor. Star and Delta are combined in parallel with a 30-electrical-degree shift of the resultant electromagnetic induction vectors."

This doesn't sound very hard! All you need is a stator with teeth that divide into 30 degree increments. I think that is probably all of them. The delta wind is done as normal and on top of it you do a WYE wind, but start the WYE wind 30 degrees rotated over from the delta wind...easy peasy! The only other detail is getting the winds right so the Kv's are the same or very close to the same.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> OK...what's different about a Slavyanka wind and winding the same stator with both delta and WYE? I assume you use the same wind method too...aka something like LRK on both right? The only detail left is making sure the Kv of each wind is similar so they don't fight each other and that's just turns per tooth. What else is there?
> 
> I've wound outrunners and hub motors myself...this isn't rocket science.
> Please post that comparison. I am interested if for no other reason than curiosity.
> ...


In the photo, the result of rewinding the engine from Renault Twizy.








Here you can read about the tests and comparison








100 km - das ist kein Scherz mehr


Hallo Twizy Freunde. Ich bin neu heir, und habe mein (5-Jahren alte)Twizy nur vor 3 Wochen gekauft, nur nicht zum Spaß, sondern für spannende Experimente....




www.twizy-forum.de





Yes, I'm from Russia. I suggest not discussing political topics here. I will only say that your media deceive you a lot about what is happening in Ukraine and in Russia. If you take the time, you will be able to find investigations by your journalists and experts that have more truth in them. I repeat. I suggest that we do not discuss political topics here.

The main technical aim of the project is to sell the technology of a full cycle of electric motor production. There are a lot of such electric motors - this is a lot of sales. Some of the electric motors will be produced in Russia. The other part of electric motors in other countries.

We will complete the design and production plant soon in Russia. But we already have developments that we can sell.

For example, angle grinders with our engines will be released soon. Pre-order is already open.


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> Quoted from: Duyunov's motors
> "The peculiarity of Slavyanka is combining two winding types in one electric motor. Star and Delta are combined in parallel with a 30-electrical-degree shift of the resultant electromagnetic induction vectors."
> 
> This doesn't sound very hard! All you need is a stator with teeth that divide into 30 degree increments. I think that is probably all of them. The delta wind is done as normal and on top of it you do a WYE wind, but start the WYE wind 30 degrees rotated over from the delta wind...easy peasy! The only other detail is getting the winds right so the Kv's are the same or very close to the same.


So far, no one has been able to create a mathematical model. Only our team was able to do it to calculate any electric motor. The nuances of calculations are known only by the leading specialists of the project. I am an ordinary investor of a project with a technical education that allows me to evaluate the results.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

The photos are great--That's impressive rewind of the motor


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

None of this really tells us anything. A few pictures that show different thread binding the winding is not at all informative. I think this is an interesting idea, but I see nothing that compels me to get a motor. There is nothing magical here and saying "no one has been able to create a mathematical model. Only our team was able to do it to calculate any electric motor." doesn't mean much if anything. Before I bought one of these motors, I'd have to know LOTS MORE and frankly you don't say very much! I've asked questions and they were ignored. I've postulated on how this wind is done and that was ignored too.

I work for a company that is developing some interesting lithium charging technology. It's going to make charging much faster than anything around today and make lithium battery life spans much longer becasue of how we charge the cells. We test and test and test and test and when our website says something is because we have tested literally millions of cells with our charging technology and we know that it's much better than anything else out there for what ever it is that uses lithium chemistries. What's really interesting is the facts behind the charging tech. I can't talk about the charging technology since it is an industry secret and our IPO, but what I can show you is test results, the facts the actual REAL test results done many thousands of times!

Can you do that? You present vague claims, but don't present empirical data to back up what you say. I can show you 10,000 reports on every form of lithium cell you can imagine all based on brand new cells vs standard CC/CV charging vs my companies charging. So again...have any proof to back up your claims?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What's the website for the charging tech?


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## Skazburg (Dec 5, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> None of this really tells us anything. A few pictures that show different thread binding the winding is not at all informative. I think this is an interesting idea, but I see nothing that compels me to get a motor. There is nothing magical here and saying "no one has been able to create a mathematical model. Only our team was able to do it to calculate any electric motor." doesn't mean much if anything. Before I bought one of these motors, I'd have to know LOTS MORE and frankly you don't say very much! I've asked questions and they were ignored. I've postulated on how this wind is done and that was ignored too.
> 
> I work for a company that is developing some interesting lithium charging technology. It's going to make charging much faster than anything around today and make lithium battery life spans much longer becasue of how we charge the cells. We test and test and test and test and when our website says something is because we have tested literally millions of cells with our charging technology and we know that it's much better than anything else out there for what ever it is that uses lithium chemistries. What's really interesting is the facts behind the charging tech. I can't talk about the charging technology since it is an industry secret and our IPO, but what I can show you is test results, the facts the actual REAL test results done many thousands of times!
> 
> Can you do that? You present vague claims, but don't present empirical data to back up what you say. I can show you 10,000 reports on every form of lithium cell you can imagine all based on brand new cells vs standard CC/CV charging vs my companies charging. So again...have any proof to back up your claims?


I am an ordinary investor, I have a technical education. But I am not the developer of this technology. Therefore, I will not be able to explain to you some difficult points.

How can I prove anything to you? Thousands of electric motors have been remade by our rewinders. These thousands of engines work in different factories and enterprises. I know from experience that even test reports are not always convincing. I can post test reports. Then they usually say that it is a fake or they say show it in reality. Will you believe the test reports? Angle grinders with our engines will be on sale soon. These will be the first mass-produced products, with electric motors developed, not redesigned.. Reviews of their work will appear. Sooner or later, someone you know will buy it. Maybe you'll believe them.

As for lithium battery technology. There is a Novosibirsk company OCSiAl Group. They produce single-walled carbon nanotubes. By adding a small amount of these nanotubes, the batteries improve their properties at times.


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