# Controller shopping



## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Netgain PulsaR - 500A? (~$4500 with charger/DC->12VDC)
Synkromotive - 750 A (900A max) - $2200
Soliton Jr. - 500 A (600A max) - $2100
Netgain Warpdrive Industrial - 1000A-1400A (battery limit max) - $2900
Netgain Warpdrive - 1000A - $2000 (+ water cooling)
Open Revolt - 500A - $600

Are there any other good options that I missed?

Now, I am looking for a controller that I can install, setup once, and not bother with it again. I would like it to be simple and just work. 

But I have no idea which controller would work best for my S10 project. All of them will work just fine I am sure.

What are the real world results between a 500A and a 1000A controller? Will I just be spinning my tires at amperages over 400A?


----------



## AviatorBJP (Sep 17, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> What are the real world results between a 500A and a 1000A controller? Will I just be spinning my tires at amperages over 400A?


I would say 500A will give you all that you need in a daily, freeway capable driver. A 144V battery pack, providing 500A would be 72KW or 96HP under ideal assumptions. Given that battery voltage tends to sag with high discharge rates, you might develop ~70HP while flooring the pedal. This is plenty of power for a "normal" car.


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I would add the Zilla controller, from Manzanita Micro to your list of possible choices. The Z1k costs $1975 or $2675 depending on pack voltage requirements.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Caps18 said:


> Netgain PulsaR - 500A? (~$4500 with charger/DC->12VDC)
> Synkromotive - 750 A (900A max) - $2200
> Soliton Jr. - 500 A (600A max) - $2100
> Netgain Warpdrive Industrial - 1000A-1400A (battery limit max) - $2900
> ...


Soliton1 (1000A continuous)- $2995

Read the specs and performance of EVWest's Ford Ranger conversion...
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/vehicles.php?osCsid=kfkv7k1domr2ucm0gbnrqjdo12


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

When I hit the "Buy Now" button on the Synkromotive website it says $1690.00.

It's said to have a undocumented charger built in, maybe onegreenev will describe how to properly use that part of the controller.


----------



## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Soliton1 (1000A continuous)- $2995
> 
> Read the specs and performance of EVWest's Ford Ranger conversion...
> http://www.evwest.com/catalog/vehicles.php?osCsid=kfkv7k1domr2ucm0gbnrqjdo12



While burning rubber might be nice, I like getting long life out of my tires.  Except for showing off, the 1000A capability won't be used I'm pretty sure... but my truck will be 500lbs or more lighter too.

The Soliton1 is a great controller, but you would need to add a $700-$1600 charger to it. Although I haven't figured out how that interacts with the wall charger or a charging station quite yet. If I have a 240V AC (both wires hot) dryer type outlet, will I be able to plug in a cable that has a J1772 end on it into the wall and be ok or do I need a wall mounted charger in my garage too? What if I find a charging station around town, does having two chargers do anything bad or is it needed?

I'm getting side tracked into charger questions now...


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these choices. Besides power for accelerating, a higher current rating will be less likely to experience thermal cut-back. 500 amps is the minimum I would consider for a truck. I like a water cooling loop, because the cooler the controller runs, the longer it will last. I ended up selecting the Soliton1, and really like evnetics products and design.


----------



## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

Here's my thoughts...

I'm in a 2800# car, and have my controller set to 500a battery, 650a motor, with a 153v nominal battery pack.

It's perfectly fine as a driver, quick off the line in 2nd gear, but by no means a 'fast' car. My zero to 60 is around 15 seconds at these settings.

Another controller you left off is the ubiquitous Curtis 1231C. Certainly proven reliable, air cooled simplicity, no fancy computers to mess with.  500a on battery and motor side.

I'm a fan of simplicity, so I confess the fact that the Synkromotive could be used with air cooling at all power levels was appealing, though I also know that water cooling is MUCH better and will lead to longer life and more power. I figured since I'm using a 750a rated controller at closer to 500a (and more like 130a continuous on the freeway) would mean I'd probably be OK with cooling. So far so good, I've never seen it do any limiting even in the heat of summer. However, I've only had it a year so I can't speak for how much I've shortened the components lives by running 500a when it's 100 degrees F outside on air cooling...

Another observation, even if I keep the battery side limit to 500a, there is a significant increase in acceleration by bumping the motor side from 500a to 750a up to about 2500 rpm. However anything over 650a to the motor slips my clutch so I leave it at 650a. Point being, even if you are current limited by your batteries, it's still worth it to buy a bigger controller for the added motor side current which you will see at low rpm's (off the line, wheel spinning, beat the other guy accross the intersections type stuff  ).

My final point would be that I would personally feel much more comfortable running a 1000a rated controller at 500a than a 500a controller at 500a. Oversize the controller for the application a bit so you aren't pushing the components so hard all the time.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Caps18 said:


> ... Although I haven't figured out how that interacts with the wall charger or a charging station quite yet. If I have a 240V AC (both wires hot) dryer type outlet, will I be able to plug in a cable that has a J1772 end on it into the wall and be ok or do I need a wall mounted charger in my garage too? What if I find a charging station around town, does having two chargers do anything bad or is it needed?
> 
> I'm getting side tracked into charger questions now...


 A charging station or Electric Vehicle Service Equipment, EVSE, is just a supply of AC power that has the ability to communicate with your charger, if the latter has that ability. In your garage all you need is a 240VAC or 120VAC outlet to plug your charger into, some can use either 240 or 120, others only one or the other. An EVSE will have a J1772 plug, so you will need a J1772 receptacle, either built into your vehicle with some minimum circuitry to tell the EVSE to turn on AC power, or an adapter like sold at www.tucsonev.com, which has the minimum circuitry built in. Now you can go back to controllers.

Oh, one comment on controllers...in addition to peak current you might consider max input voltage of the controller, as the latter limits how many batteries you can series together, which for a given Ah battery capacity limits how much range you can have, assuming other constraints like cost and space in the vehicle are not more limiting.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Caps18 said:


> While burning rubber might be nice, I like getting long life out of my tires.  Except for showing off, the 1000A capability won't be used I'm pretty sure... but my truck will be 500lbs or more lighter too.
> 
> ...


I forgot to address that, now repeated, concern of "burning/spinning tires"

The Soliton controllers have a setup screen to make adjustments, a few of which can adjust the ramp up of the throttle so that it is smoother to prevent unwanted "burning/spinning tires".


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Caps18 said:


> While burning rubber might be nice, I like getting long life out of my tires.  Except for showing off, the 1000A capability won't be used I'm pretty sure... but my truck will be 500lbs or more lighter too.


Being able to deliver a bunch of motor amps flattens out your power band and makes a nice driving vehicle. I have my Zilla set with a 300 amp battery current limit but a 900 amp motor current limit. I have a flat horsepower band from roughly 1400 rpm to 4000 rpm. I don't loose to much rubber applying 900 amps to the ground in 2nd gear. My vehicle only weighs 1200 lb. 

Decide on the pack voltage you will run. Next determine the range you need and estimate the kWh you need to do it. This will lead you to the amp hour capacity you require. With that you can choose a pack. You can now estimate vehicle weight and peak power requirement. I recommend at least 1 horsepower for every 50 pounds of vehicle or you could get run over on the road. This will narrow down controller choices to the ones that accept the input voltage and provide the output current you need. I recommend you pick a controller that will let you set the motor current at least 50% higher than the battery current to improve drivability. 

Let's say you have chosen a 144 volt pack. You want a 60 mile range in a small pickup. At about 400 watt hours per mile you need a 24 kWh pack. To get that from a 144 volt pack it needs to supply 167 amp hours. You could choose a 180 amp hour LiFePO4 cells, 45 of them to get 144 volts. You can use the pack weight to estimate the converted weight, perhaps you get 3000 pounds. At 3000 pounds you need at least 60 horsepower (IMHO.) At 135 volts under load (guess) you will need about 400 amps to get 60 horsepower. 

If you don't like the results, you can change the vehicle, or the pack voltage, or the desired range, or all of them, and run the estimates again. 

This same math is a lot cheaper in a light vehicle. I went overboard with light, a beach buggy. I chose a 120 volt pack and desired a 35 mile range. At only 200 watt hours per mile I needed a 7 kWh pack. 7000 watts divided by 120 volts leads me to a 58 amp hour pack. I chose 60 amp hour Thunder Sky cells. 120 volts is 38 LiFePO4 cells. This gets me a pack weight of 190 lb. This puts my final vehicle weight at 1200 lb. I need 24 horsepower by my standard of 50 pounds per horsepower, but I decided I needed half again more. At 108 volts under load (measured, since the car is on the road) I need about 300 amps, so I bought a Zilla and turned it down to 300 battery amps. 900 motor amps makes it very drivable around town.


----------



## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

That's a nice simple guide EVfun. But shouldn't that be 'At 3000 pounds you need at least 60 horsepower'? (Looks like you halved instead of doubling).


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Good catch MalcolmB. I should go back and fix the math, but not so early in the morning.

I've gone back and corrected the numbers. I want to add that 50 pounds per horsepower is not a quick vehicle. It would be roughly similar in performance to an old 36 HP Beetle (pre '61.) Most modern vehicles push about 18 to 28 pounds per horsepower.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

In the 3000 lb vehicle example, 24kWh + 20% or more is required, so 28.8kWh or greater pack.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> While burning rubber might be nice, I like getting long life out of my tires.  Except for showing off, the 1000A capability won't be used I'm pretty sure... but my truck will be 500lbs or more lighter too.
> 
> The Soliton1 is a great controller, but you would need to add a $700-$1600 charger to it. Although I haven't figured out how that interacts with the wall charger or a charging station quite yet. If I have a 240V AC (both wires hot) dryer type outlet, will I be able to plug in a cable that has a J1772 end on it into the wall and be ok or do I need a wall mounted charger in my garage too? What if I find a charging station around town, does having two chargers do anything bad or is it needed?
> 
> I'm getting side tracked into charger questions now...


That is exactly what I have done.

I have a J1772 input on the car for use with both charge stations and a standard AC outlet. the AVC2 module takes care of J1772.

I then have a J1772 side connector with a standard AC socket on the end that lives in the boot.

There are some pics in my build thread.

I got it all from modular EV power


----------

