# Planafizing a 1978 Toyoda Pickup conversion.



## Bratitude (Jan 23, 2020)

Get a Lexus GS 450h transmission. that’s the ideal swap for a old yota


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

I'm not a fan of recommending using a hybrid transaxle as a drive unit for every EV (as has become somewhat popular in this forum); however, I agree that the L110 transmission (from the Lexus GS 450h) could be a suitable fit for a small pickup. For a 4WD, the L110F (from the Lexus LS 600h) would be the equivalent, but unfortunately it does not have a low range.

With these hybrid transmissions, unless you lock the input shaft (which limits top speed) or lock up the power-splitter gearset, only MG2 (the output-side motor-generator) will drive the vehicle... MG1 (the motor-generator linked to the input from the engine via the power splitter) will not be able to do anything.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

Thanks for the reply and recommendation. I have, so far, been operating under the assumption I could keep the original transmission, since its manual. Is this totally mistaken, or would moving to the L110 just make my life easier?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Curtis_RVA said:


> I have, so far, been operating under the assumption I could keep the original transmission, since its manual. Is this totally mistaken, or would moving to the L110 just make my life easier?


While the Toyota L110 is a transmission, it has been suggested as a motor complete with transmission - you wouldn't use it with another motor.

If you use a different motor, you may want to keep the truck's original transmission, or use a different transmission, or connect the motor to the rear axle without any other transmission... depending on the characteristics of the motor used.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

brian_ said:


> While the Toyota L110 is a transmission, it has been suggested as a motor complete with transmission - you wouldn't use it with another motor.
> 
> If you use a different motor, you may want to keep the truck's original transmission, or use a different transmission, or connect the motor to the rear axle without any other transmission... depending on the characteristics of the motor used.


So, basically, you are suggesting to turn the truck into a hybrid EV?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Curtis_RVA said:


> So, basically, you are suggesting to turn the truck into a hybrid EV?


I'm not really suggesting the L110 at all - that's Bratitude's suggestion. I may be mistaken, but I don't think that he's suggesting making it a hybrid, either; the idea is to use this transmission (which comes from a hybrid) by itself as the motor and transmission for your EV. The input shaft to the L110 wouldn't be used at all: no engine would be connected to it, so it wouldn't be used as a hybrid.

It's not an obvious solution, but it has some potential advantages over other designs:

it works with your existing rear axle (or even a 4WD system);
the engine motor and transmission fit in the original transmission tunnel, leaving the whole engine compartment available for battery, electronics, or even a front trunk.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

brian_ said:


> I'm not really suggesting the L110 at all - that's Bratitude's suggestion. I may be mistaken, but I don't think that he's suggesting making it a hybrid, either; the idea is to use this transmission (which comes from a hybrid) by itself as the motor and transmission for your EV. The input shaft to the L110 wouldn't be used at all: no engine would be connected to it, so it wouldn't be used as a hybrid.
> 
> It's not an obvious solution, but it has some potential advantages over other designs:
> 
> ...


Ah, I see. Appreciate the clarification on that! Fascinating.


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## Bratitude (Jan 23, 2020)

Using a gs450h (rwd) or ls600h (awd) transmission
Pros:


350hp ish
toyota part, most likely drops right in and bolts up to the drive shaft and crossmembers.
leaves engine bay empty, more space for batteries!
simple. not much fab work involved compared to adapting a motor to the original manual transmission
designed to handle the torque.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

Okay, I think I fully understand the picture, here. The Lexus GS 450h is just a much better fit than a Leaf for specifically an old Yoda. 

The batteries for the 450h seem oddly cheap. I'll look into how many miles a pack you get. 

Thank you very much for your thoughtful responses to this, I genuinely appreciate you.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Curtis_RVA said:


> The batteries for the 450h seem oddly cheap. I'll look into how many miles a pack you get.


The battery for any non-plug-in hybrid is tiny, with only about one kilowatt-hour of capacity, which is why it is cheap. It would be useless for an EV, providing a range of about two miles.

Toyota non-plug-in hybrids in general and the GS 450h specifically typically use a 288 volt (nominal) nickel-metal hydride battery (240 NiMH cells in series). The battery is useless for an EV, but that implies that the intended nominal battery voltage is 288 V, corresponding to about 76 cells in series of common EV lithium-ion cell types (NMC or NCA), or about 90 cells in series of LFP (LiFePO4) cells.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Bratitude said:


> Using a gs450h (rwd) or ls600h (awd) transmission
> Pros:
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, but

the 350 hp rating is far beyond what Toyota rates this for in EV mode (although it can pass that much power through from an engine, much of that power is transmitted mechanically, not by the motor-generators)
the probability that a manual transmission from the 1970's truck and an automatic from a 21st century car with independent rear suspension use the same transmission mount or output shaft size are low, even from the same manufacturer
I found transmission mounts for both online, and they are wildly different
they appear to both use a sliding spline transmission output, but I don't know the size and spline counts
*Edit*_: no, the L110 has a three-armed flange to attach a flex joint, not a male spline for sliding shaft as expected for the truck_

mounting is simple, but controlling the two-motor OEM system is not
These are not insurmountable issues, but they are also not advantages for using new Toyota components in an old Toyota.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

@brian_ the Lexus 450h transmission is commonly used in many conversions, some of which were extremely professional and amazing performing vehicles. The transmission output shaft can be adapted to a normal rear differential much easier than anything you have suggested especially a Leaf motor. Also it includes reduction gears so the output speed is more closely matched to an ICE.

In all there are many good reasons to use it. Anyone can Google up a million details and come up with a bullet point list of bad things, that takes very little effort. Brian, you come off as incredibly abrasive and you are scaring off new people with your pessimistic attitude.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

Thanks for wading in, ELC. I'm glad there's a lively conversation happening here. I'm new here, obviously, but I haven't found Brian to be abrasive, at least not to me. I appreciate his candor, to be honest. I don't know shit about this, I'm glad he's not pulling information. 

I've found this discussion really interesting and I'm impressed by the knowledge that both Brian and Bratitude have displayed in this thread. With Bratitude's help, just using some of his language, I've found a TON of info that has sort of convinced me this is possible. I've watched a few hours of Damien's videos on YT. 

At the same time, Brian is basically telling me it ain't gonna be a walk in the park. 

It's been years and years since I last participated in a forum, it's like Reddit erased 'em. I'm really excited that forums like this still exist and conversations such as this still happen. 😁😁😁


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## Bratitude (Jan 23, 2020)

many of the folks over on openinverter have made turning the motors nearly a plug and play afar. 

funny I supply couplers for the leaf motor to adapt to what ever you like, but in a conversion like this, I would go with the gs450h gearbox.

there’s plenty of conversions showing the capability. and power. This is modern hot rodding, what the oem original spec was, isn’t entirely relevant.

Example: Nissan Leaf is a 80kw car. The motor is 200kw-250kw capable. Batteries lack proper thermal management to provide the power, but the motor can take it.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

It's definitely not going to be a walk in the park, but of all choices the 450h transmission/motor is a great fit. Brian has some issue with it because it's a "hybrid transmission" but it's completely different from other hybrid stuff, been reading that type of post from him all over the forum over and over.

There are two paths you can take with EV conversions, generally. You can go down the tried and tested path of a brushed DC motor like the Warp 9 or you can try to use components from a modern production EV. Benefits and downsides to both. You just have to make that choice on your own.

EV West has an adapter plate that will bolt up to your stock transmissions also: Toyota 22R adapter, EV West - Electric Vehicle Parts, Components, EVSE Charging Stations, Electric Car Conversion Kits

The 20R and 22R have identical transmission bellhousings and bolt patterns so that plate will work just the same on your truck. It could probably be used as a base to modify and fit a different motor also.

I also own a Toyota Pickup, mine is 10 years newer but has the same running gear for the most part. It has a brushed DC motor and Curtis controller from over a decade ago which is still available for purchase. You can check it out here: 1988 Toyota Truck Conversion-Revival I have not really done anything with it since buying it yet. The conversion wasn't done by me but it has a 9" DC motor and was going to run on 144v. Pretty pedestrian but totally functional.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

That 88 is *ridiculously* cool! You're a brave soul traveling all that way for it. I'm relatively familiar with the more traditional Warp 9 conversions, but I'm priced out of that super-fast. I think I had estimated somethin' like $15,000 in parts to get motor, dc/dc, controller and just a few batteries. 

With this GS450h conversion, it looks like it would be possible to stay under 10k if I can find the right parts. Tell me if that sounds totally incorrect, but I'm guessing I can find some Long Range Bolt batteries on the cheapish side. By the looks of it, Damien Maguire opened up the gateway to this whole process, if I pursue this avenue, I'm going to have to send him a few bucks, too via his Patreon. 

In ya'lls opinion, going the GS450h route, would it be possible to load the truck to near its original half-ton capacity? Obviously this would impact distance, but does it even have the torque to take it?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> @brian_ the Lexus 450h transmission is commonly used in many conversions, some of which were extremely professional and amazing performing vehicles.


I did not question that this transmission could be used, or that the result could be good.



Electric Land Cruiser said:


> The transmission output shaft can be adapted to a normal rear differential much easier than anything you have suggested especially a Leaf motor.


I also haven't suggested anything else, so perhaps you are thinking of someone else.

The use of a drive unit in the same format as the truck's original transmission is an advantage as I mentioned in post #7; and of course the driveshaft can be easily adapted... as I said:
​


brian_ said:


> These are not insurmountable issues, but they are also not advantages for using new Toyota components in an old Toyota.​​


​What I did point out is that the fantasy that this transmission "most likely drops right in and bolts up to the drive shaft and crossmembers", simply because it comes from the same manufacturer as the truck, is not reality.

Toyota's L110 hybrid transmission is a potentially good fit for any compact pickup truck conversion (or the L110F for a 4WD)... and that isn't limited to Toyota trucks because being the same brand has no meaningful relevance.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Bratitude said:


> there’s plenty of conversions showing the capability. and power. This is modern hot rodding, what the oem original spec was, isn’t entirely relevant.
> 
> Example: Nissan Leaf is a 80kw car. The motor is 200kw-250kw capable. Batteries lack proper thermal management to provide the power, but the motor can take it.


I agree!

Many components can be run well beyond their factory rating, and it can work if the whole situation is considered. This Leaf example is an excellent illustration of where a different component leads to the rating of the motor. But one consequence of the way these components are designed to work together is that when they are used in isolation and one is to be used outside of its normal limits, custom work is likely required to make that possible... and there is the hot rodding.

To run an old 80 kW Leaf motor at the current 160 kW, or more, requires replacing the controller logic... by replacing the physical hardware (the motor can controlled over CAN by an external processor, but to override the power limit requires internal changes in the controller). The L110 is similar - it's not just a matter of bolting the thing in and getting massive power, but it's feasible.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> Brian has some issue with it because it's a "hybrid transmission" but it's completely different from other hybrid stuff...


It's actually not completely different. It's functionally the same as a Prius transaxle, but packaged longitudinally and with a mechanical transmission on the end. Those differences are beneficial in this case (the L100 from the GS 450h would be a far better choice for the Toyota pickup than the transaxle from a Prius), but the two motors plus power splitter design is still a less-than-optimal substitute for one motor.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Curtis_RVA said:


> In ya'lls opinion, going the GS450h route, would it be possible to load the truck to near its original half-ton capacity? Obviously this would impact distance, but does it even have the torque to take it?


This transmission plus a suitable chunk of battery wouldn't be far off of the original powertrain weight, because the range target is so modest. That should leave about the original payload capability. The loaded truck won't be much different from a loaded GS 450h in total weight, so the L100 transmission should be able to handle it, acting as it would in EV mode in the GS. I'll note (although I'll be attacked for it) that the GS only uses EV mode up to about 25 MPH (40 km/h) so higher-speed operation would need to be considered in how the L110 is convinced to drive the vehicle without an engine.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Don't worry, the tried and true 450h transmission/motor works great.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Just to clarify terminology: "450h" is a powertrain designation used in two very different Lexus models which have 3.5L V6 engines and hybrid transmissions of Toyota's Synergy Hybrid Drive design, but packaged very differently. The GS 450h has the one suitable for a pickup truck; the RX 450h has a transverse transaxle (without the two-speed internal gearbox and with a differential) that would not be suitable. I assume that everyone in this discussion saying "450h" means the L110 from the GS 450h, but the distinction is important if searching for one to buy or for information about it... look for "GS 450h", not just "450h".


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

Thanks for the clarification, @brian_. Luckily, I saw that detail and have been using it in my research. 

Taking the average price of everything on Ebay, so far I'm up to $2,225 before battery pack and charger. I'm not sure I've come across a consensus on the bang-for-your-buck batteries. 


ItemPurchasedVendorPriceSubtotalLexus GS 450H 2006-2011 Transmission NoEbay$800$800Lexus GS450h InverterNoEbay$825$1,625VCUNoEV-BMW$400$2,025VCU enclosureNoRadwell$20$2,045Throttle PedalNoEbay$60$2,105Oil Pump ControllerNoEbay$120$2,225


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Curtis_RVA said:


> Thanks for the clarification, @brian_. Luckily, I saw that detail and have been using it in my research.


Apparently this transmission, called the L110 in the 2WD configuration and L110F in the 4WD configuration (with integrated transfer case) is also called the HR-10, perhaps by Aisin AW, the Toyota-owned company which actually builds it: HR10 Transmission parts. The list of Aisin transmissions in Wikipedia calls it the T-100, without supporting references; I don't think that will be useful for finding anything.

Here's a slide from a presentation with some specs:
LS600hL / LS600h CHASSIS November 18 Lexus TMME Europe Presentation. - ppt download
The interesting parts are a weight of 127 kg (for the whole thing, without inverter) and maximum ratings for MG2 at 147 kW (197 HP) and 275 Nm, with reduction gear ratios of 3.90:1 and 1.90:1. That's lots for the pickup, without even using MG1.

The AWD version apparently has a higher MG2 power rating; I don't know if it is physically different, or that's just stock controller programming.

Later slides in that presentation explain that the two-speed planetary gears (a Ravigneaux gearset) at the output end is only used for MG2: the output from the power split device (which is MG1 output if the input shaft is locked and MG1 is used to drive) goes directly to the transmission output, without further reduction gearing.



Curtis_RVA said:


> Taking the average price of everything on Ebay, so far I'm up to $2,225 before battery pack and charger. I'm not sure I've come across a consensus on the bang-for-your-buck batteries.
> 
> 
> ItemPurchasedVendorPriceSubtotalLexus GS 450H 2006-2011 TransmissionNoEbay$800$800Lexus GS450h InverterNoEbay$825$1,625VCUNoEV-BMW$400$2,025VCU enclosureNoRadwell$20$2,045Throttle PedalNoEbay$60$2,105Oil Pump ControllerNoEbay$120$2,225


Just a note if you watch the videos on the EVBMW page for the GS 450h project: in video 2 he says that in the "original" hybrid system the planetary gearset attached to MG1 wasn't included - that's nonsense... that gearset is the power splitter which is fundamental to this hybrid system. He has worked out the electronics, but doesn't (or didn't at the time) understand the mechanics of the hybrid system; that's okay, since the mechanics work, and because how it works as a hybrid transmission doesn't matter much to how it is being used as a EV drive unit.

The way these mechanical components work, MG1 can only be used to power the vehicle in EV mode by either locking the input shaft stationary, or locking the power splitter gearset to rotate as one unit. In this video, he explains his approach (or what he was planning at the time), which is to lock the input shaft; that works, but limits the output speed due to the resulting high MG1 speed.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

brian_ said:


> locking the power splitter..


Lock the input shaft seems pretty negligible, but I am interested in looking into locking the power splitter. Cursory research is producing nil, but I'll keep looking around. 

Thanks for the PowerPoint and granular details. Do you have any sage wisdom on battery modules?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Curtis_RVA said:


> Do you have any sage wisdom on battery modules?


Not really... just understand what overall battery voltage you want, and find modules that total up to that voltage and hit the desired energy by combining them in series only.

Because the range target is so low and the possible power demand of the drive unit is so high, it's worth considering the power capability as well as the energy capacity - usually, if you have enough energy capacity you will have enough power capability.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Some additional sources:

DIY Electric Car
The Lexus GS450h motor

EV BMW
Lexus Toyota Hybrid Transmission Project

OpenInverter
GS450h Transmission
OpenInverter's wiki section about the GS 450h's transmission

Toyota/Lexus GS300h CVT
OpenInverter wiki article about the related L210 hybrid transmission, with notes comparing to L110


excellent document from the U.S. DOE
linked in the above OpenInverter page
illustrated teardown
the GS 450h version of the unit (L110) varies in design from the LS 600h version shown in the document (L110F) only in the last housing section.
I'll note that this document uses "motor" for MG2 and "generator" for MG1.

Green Car Congress
background: The Lexus GS 450h Hybrid System


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

*Hydraulic pump drive *in L110

A pump (the mechanical one in the unit or the external electric one that is used in the Lexus) is needed for lubrication, cooling, and to keep one of the clutches (brakes) in the gearbox engaged so that the motors' power can reach the output. While an early video at EV BMW implied that the input shaft would be locked, the last one (#11) showed pressure produced by the internal mechanical oil pump, which is driven by the input shaft (by a gear around the power splitter planet carrier)... so if the input shaft is locked that pump wouldn't function.

OpenInverter's wiki section about the GS 450h's transmission describes locking the input shaft and assumes that the electric pump will be used. As posted in OpenInverter (in the article about the related L210 hybrid transmission):


> The L110 CVT, found in the gs450h, has two oil pumps. An internal mechanical pump and an external 12V electric pump. The internal mechanical oil pump is driven by the ICE. Locking the ICE input shaft to allow MG1 to provide traction means that the internal oil pump no longer functions. This makes the external 12V electric oil pump essential when using the CVT in a pure EV application.


The excellent document from the U.S. DOE shows the pump drive, and how it is from the power splitter planet carrier, which is on the input shaft from the engine.

I think it would be worthwhile to work through the EVBMW videos and the earlier discussion in this forum to determine what is actually being done. There's no real problem - the external electric pump can be used if the mechanical one is disabled - but it's a detail that needs to be handled.


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## Curtis_RVA (Jun 3, 2021)

@brian_ Thanks for all of that info, that's awesome. I'm trying to source some parts, still, but in the mean time, I've been de-rusting and redoing the interior. 

I'm in VA and found a place a few hours away that have a handful of parts needed.


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## gregski (Sep 6, 2011)

I see "Planafizing" I click... and Follow


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## gregski (Sep 6, 2011)

Curtis_RVA said:


> Thanks for the clarification, @brian_. Luckily, I saw that detail and have been using it in my research.
> 
> Taking the average price of everything on Ebay, so far I'm up to $2,225 before battery pack and charger. I'm not sure I've come across a consensus on the bang-for-your-buck batteries.
> 
> ...


you can find those inverters for less than half that price, keep looking, you may also want to get the flywheel for that input shaft to make an input shaft lock out so that both motors drive the output shaft, if you don't only MG2 drives the output shaft and MG1 is used as a starter and generator to charge the 12 volt battery


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

gregski said:


> ... MG1 is used as a starter and generator to charge the 12 volt battery


We already covered this, but...
In hybrid operation, MG1 does far more than start the engine and charge the 12V battery - it controls the engine speed and transmits a significant fraction of the engine's output power, in parallel to the mechanical power flow path; it is critical to the power split hybrid system. It doesn't even directly charge the 12 V battery, because that is done via a DC-to-DC converter from the traction battery. None of that matters in a vehicle without an engine, so in an EV MG1 is useless dead weight unless the engine input shaft is locked or the power splitter is locked.


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## gregski (Sep 6, 2011)

Curtis_RVA said:


> Thanks for the clarification, @brian_. Luckily, I saw that detail and have been using it in my research.
> 
> Taking the average price of everything on Ebay, so far I'm up to $2,225 before battery pack and charger. I'm not sure I've come across a consensus on the bang-for-your-buck batteries.
> 
> ...


cool, have you seen my thread on the additional costs and the wiring of this transmission? you will need at least the engine wire harness which actually goes to your transmission as well, building your own resolver wires is a PIA, I bought that harness for $250 on eBay but you do not see them very often, then you will need the Inverted plug/connector which you can not purchase by itself new, you may find it as a used pig tail but that is super rare. Also we can no longer buy the header connector for the gen 1 VCU so are you planning to use the Zombie version of it? You will also need the flywheel for that transmission to lock out the input shaft so that both internal motors spin the output shaft. Just trying to help.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

brian_ said:


> in an EV MG1 is useless dead weight unless the engine input shaft is locked or the power splitter is locked.


I don't think that's the case.

The Prius Gen 2, Gen 3, and the GS450h are a bit muddled in my head, but I'm pretty sure Damien's been running his daily driver using both MG1 and MG2. I think MG1 spins at 2-3x the rate of MG2, but this is still well within its max speed except perhaps if drag racing.

I seem to recall a video where he was only using one or the other motor, and then switched over to using both and he was amazed at how much more powerful it was.

Fuzzy on the details, and I might be wrong.

I know for some of the transaxles (Prius Gen 2 or 3) the solution is opposite. I.E. In one you can just lock the input shaft, in the other you have to weld the planetary gears to the gear carrier or somesuch. The gearing arrangement is just different as to what does what and how you would fix this. IIRC if you choose wrong, you'll send MG1 off into orbit, it can't handle the ratio it's forced to turn at.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> The Prius Gen 2, Gen 3, and the GS450h are a bit muddled in my head, but I'm pretty sure Damien's been running his daily driver using both MG1 and MG2. I think MG1 spins at 2-3x the rate of MG2, but this is still well within its max speed except perhaps if drag racing.


Yes, if the input shaft is locked then MG1 spins at some multiple of the power splitter output speed, determined by the power splitter gearing (tooth counts).



MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> I know for some of the transaxles (Prius Gen 2 or 3) the solution is opposite. I.E. In one you can just lock the input shaft, in the other you have to weld the planetary gears to the gear carrier or somesuch. The gearing arrangement is just different as to what does what and how you would fix this. IIRC if you choose wrong, you'll send MG1 off into orbit, it can't handle the ratio it's forced to turn at.


The gearing arrangement isn't fundamentally different, it just has a different ratio.

Matt, you disagreed with this statement:


brian_ said:


> ... in an EV MG1 is useless dead weight unless the engine input shaft is locked or the power splitter is locked.


... and then explained how MG1 is indeed dead weight _unless either the engine input shaft is locked or the power splitter is locked_. Strange.

In the 2017 Toyota Prius Prime Plug-In Hybrid (and presumably now other "Prime" variants) Toyota includes a sprag clutch to effectively lock the input shaft so that MG1 can contribute to EV mode driving, with gearing and MG1 maximum speed chosen to make this useful all the way up to highway speeds... but that's not in the old L110 of GS and LS.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

brian_ said:


> Strange.


Yeah I.. hmm, I dunno what I was up to there. Maybe parsed something different, or maybe started typing about a second point and forgot the first. You're right, I wasn't making sense.


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## Robinrebuilds (Oct 14, 2021)

Lexus gs450h is a hybrid? Motor may be mistaken but they turn the 288v into 600v with this hybrid setup Damien from open inverter did a YouTube blog about this motor.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Robinrebuilds said:


> Lexus gs450h is a hybrid? Motor may be mistaken but they turn the 288v into 600v with this hybrid setup Damien from open inverter did a YouTube blog about this motor.


Yes, the "h" on the end of model name means "hybrid" in Lexus naming. And yes, everyone working with this hybrid system is aware of Damien and his work. The voltage doubler (which is between the battery and the inverter) is only used under selected conditions - otherwise the battery voltage (nominally 288 V) is supplied directly to the inverter.


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## rtchow (Nov 24, 2021)

i'm new to this DIY EV conversion. i have a 1997 toyota tacoma LX ext cab 5' bed with 385K auto tranny. i want to convert it to hybrid, not full EV. any great idea and where to get the complete kit? it would be a great project since this truck cost $3300. gets 25 to 30 mpg. i'm looking about 5 years down the road when this truck decides to quit. this will be a good candidate for hybrid since it is an automatic using the same tranny.


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## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

rtchow said:


> i want to convert it to hybrid, not full EV


read this thread Considering 2002 S-10 club cab going hybrid although you might be able to transfer the complete drain train from a lexus hybrid forget which one. I believe a GS450H
later floyd


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rtchow said:


> i'm new to this DIY EV conversion. i have a 1997 toyota tacoma LX ext cab 5' bed with 385K auto tranny. i want to convert it to hybrid, not full EV. any great idea and where to get the complete kit? it would be a great project since this truck cost $3300.


The only "complete kit" comes from Toyota (or Ford), and it is complete with a new Tundra or F-150 body and chassis. If you want to convert an existing truck, you will be gathering parts from multiple sources and doing substantial custom work to put them in the truck and make them work together.

The current value of the truck to be converted will be irrelevant compared to the conversion cost, so I suggest starting with something that you actually want, not what you happen to have or can get really cheaply.



rtchow said:


> this will be a good candidate for hybrid since it is an automatic using the same tranny.


The same transmission as what? No production hybrid vehicle has ever used the Toyota A340 family of transmissions.
Did you just mean that the bellhousing bolt pattern of the 1997 Tacoma matches the L110 hybrid transmission of the GS 450h? I'm not sure that it does, since Toyota has used various bell housing patterns, but at least some of the A340 transmissions have removable bell housings so they can be matched to various engines (e.g. RZ 4-cylinders and VZ V6's are different, but there is a bellhousing of each pattern to fit the A340 transmission). The L110 does not have a removable bell housing - you're stuck with the pattern it was built for, which fits the GR family of V6 engines. And, of course, there's more to fitting an engine to a transmission than the bell housing bolt locations.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

There is no complete hybrid retrofit kit.

5 years down the road, ICE will begin to be banned from some US cities, as will 300,000 miled beaters.

Suggest you suck it up and get used to $5/gallon being retrospectively cheap.


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## rtchow (Nov 24, 2021)

brian_ said:


> The only "complete kit" comes from Toyota (or Ford), and it is complete with a new Tundra or F-150 body and chassis. If you want to convert an existing truck, you will be gathering parts from multiple sources and doing substantial custom work to put them in the truck and make them work together.
> 
> The current value of the truck to be converted will be irrelevant compared to the conversion cost, so I suggest starting with something that you actually want, not what you happen to have or can get really cheaply.
> 
> ...


i did mention i'm a newbie on the hybrid/EV the bell housing bolt pattern can be matched to the TACO with adapter plate. 5 years from now will be a whole new technology. thanks for your input, bob


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rtchow said:


> ... the bell housing bolt pattern can be matched to the TACO with adapter plate. 5 years from now will be a whole new technology.


Once you're using an adapter plate, the original transmission no longer matters, so that's no longer an advantage of this particular truck (if it ever was).



rtchow said:


> 5 years from now will be a whole new technology.


Maybe not - Toyota hasn't introduced any new hybrid tech in the past five years.


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## rtchow (Nov 24, 2021)

brian_ said:


> Once you're using an adapter plate, the original transmission no longer matters, so that's no longer an advantage of this particular truck (if it ever was).
> 
> 
> Maybe not - Toyota hasn't introduced any new hybrid tech in the past five years.


brian, there's gotta be someway to do conversion with this toyota tacoma. the frame is rust free for this old truck with 385K miles. i saw a youtube back few years using adapting plate to the bell housing on a car. anyway, i'm not absolute doing this hybrid, just a thought. by 5 years, i could be in whole different travel mode.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Electric plug-in is relatively easy.

Hybrid is not by any sense of the imagination.

The problem is not "all ya gotta do is attach the engine to the transmission with an adapter plate" - it's in the controls....thousands of lines of control-laws software interworking with an existing ICE ECU that nobody has reverse engineered.

All the software is available to control the Lexus trans AS AN EV. It does not bolt onto an ICE to make a hybrid by magic, adapter plate or otherwise.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

rtchow said:


> i'm new to this DIY EV conversion. i have a 1997 toyota tacoma LX ext cab 5' bed with 385K auto tranny. i want to convert it to hybrid, not full EV. any great idea and where to get the complete kit? it would be a great project since this truck cost $3300. gets 25 to 30 mpg. i'm looking about 5 years down the road when this truck decides to quit. this will be a good candidate for hybrid since it is an automatic using the same tranny.


I've toyed with the idea many times of getting a crashed lexus GS or even LS (4wd) and swapping the entire drivetrain into a Hilux (sadly no Tacoma's in the UK) to have a turn key hybrid. All the fabrication would be mechanical and worst case put the battery in the bed or maybe under the rear seats or swap them for storage above the battery etc.

Retrofitting hybrid to a non-hybrid drivetrain is highly unlikely to be cost effective or effective at all. Stealing the drivetrain from a hybrid, in entirety with its controls etc is just like an organ transplant, as long as the blood types match everything gets along.

cheers
Tyler


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

tylerwatts said:


> Stealing the drivetrain from a hybrid, in entirety with its controls etc is just like an organ transplant, as long as the blood types match everything gets along.


This is the same approach as taking everything from an EV, for use in another vehicle. It can work


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