# My first build...73 SuperBeetle



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Congrats, fellow Bugger!

What kind of range are you shooting for? A bug will be pretty stuffed with 156V of 260 ah cells.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Congrats, fellow Bugger!
> 
> What kind of range are you shooting for? A bug will be pretty stuffed with 156V of 260 ah cells.


Hey man. I am shooting for the 100+ range. Where I live its basically a 30 mile round trip to any one place and when I leave the island I like to go more than one place. Also want to be able to get far enough from the coast in case of a hurricane. I dont need the back seat to carry people and intend to instead create a back shelf that will be for groceries so i can use the front trunk and a lot of back floor space. How do you heat yours by the way??


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> intend to instead create a back shelf that will be for groceries so i can use the front trunk and a lot of back floor space. How do you heat yours by the way??


Check out Corbin's bug. It has more lithium stuffed in than any other bugs I'm aware of, ~31 kWh, yours would be 25% bigger.
http://www.evalbum.com/3665
http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/category/electric-bug/



wessss77 said:


> How do you heat yours by the way??


I'm in Houston. I think it's about 80 today.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I'm in Houston. I think it's about 80 today.


Smart alec. 

New pans in, Brakes done, new ebrake cables too!! Silly me ordered the wrong size Adapter plate and coupler by mistake so back on hold till next week. My bad...attention to detail right from the get go.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Found some good priced lugs, heat shrink and lug caps here http://shop.genuinedealz.com. Not a big savings but free shipping and a couple bucks here and there. I didnt know if the Battery switches would be a nice to have on the pack or not so didnt order them.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Got in the new adapter from ReBirth...its pretty for sure. new flywheel and pressure plate due in tomorrow so i may get the motor in and mounted then. The new controller should be here today but I aint countin on it since fedex hasnt updated their site to show it out for delivery. 
I also talked to the local Carquest and if I bring my lugs and wires down...they will crimp them for me no charge with their crimper! SCORE!

Batteries should ship today or monday so things are looking up. Oh yeah and I got the PFC4000 Elcon set up to take me from 36-45 cells.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Okay so I just got back into town and went down to try to get the motor up into the bay. is there a secret to getting the motor with adapter and clutch and all to fit up to the transaxle without removing the rear apron or am I better off trying to tilt the transaxle? This FB1-4001 is heavy to throw around. Thanks for any help.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I've only done #3+4 but the options I'm aware of are:

modify the apron to make it hinged/easy on off
drop the end of the tranny
bend
cut


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Wess,

Yes there is a trick. Disconnect the shift linkage under the rear seat. Then put a jack under the transmission and unbolt the to big nuts that hold the transmission to the transmission forks. With those removed you can lower the transmission a tad then mount your motor then lift the whole thing back into place. If you have a long motor with an aux shaft you may need to drill a hole for the aux shaft. If you have an ADC motor or Warp9 Impulse motor you should be good to go. Once you have the motor up where you want it you just bolt the two large bolts back up. It will require you to get a large socket for the nuts. You should torque it to spec too when done. I have done this trick many times and it saves a bunch of trouble and also keeps you from having to cut or remove the rear apron. 

If however you do remove the rear apron you can set it up to just bolt back in place and doing that will make install and removal real easy. But the tranny trick is for those not wanting to cut or remove parts from their Bug. 

Standard Warp9 motors need a bit trimmed on the inside of the apron and if you have an aux shaft you need to have a hole drilled for the aux shaft to fit into. You don't need to hack the rear apron out. 

Pete


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks guys...I went with the optional cut out and hinge...then I found out just how important it is to use an alignment tool on the clutch cause it was not going in...maybe tomorrow if i can borrow one from the local auto shop...baby steps.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

If you have a local VW place or can wait a few days you can order them cheap. $3. 

http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/493/Clutch-Alignment-Tool/?gclid=CIDrlOCg0LUCFcZ_QgodOV4ACg


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Got the alignment tool, all slid into place great...question though...how many threads would you recommend to hold things in place? the studs from the ReBirth adapter dont quite go long enough to get all the way through the nuts on the back side of the bell housing. i put locktite on the studs and then rotated them in but wonder if i should back them out real quick to give me more thread for the nuts.(edit: i did back them out a couple turns so i feel better)


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Should have enough to fully cover with excess stud sticking out. Get longer studs #8 strength or #10.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Check out Corbin's bug. It has more lithium stuffed in than any other bugs I'm aware of, ~31 kWh, yours would be 25% bigger.
> http://www.evalbum.com/3665
> http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/category/electric-bug/
> 
> ...



115v * 260ah = ~30kwhr. About the same size as my pack.

-corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> Okay so I just got back into town and went down to try to get the motor up into the bay. is there a secret to getting the motor with adapter and clutch and all to fit up to the transaxle without removing the rear apron or am I better off trying to tilt the transaxle? This FB1-4001 is heavy to throw around. Thanks for any help.


I attach my Warp9 to my transmission and then install it in the bug. I remove the "ears" on the CV joints, and this allows the transmission to slip up between the two rear transmission mounts (just barely). It is a tricky and tight fit, but it makes it!

If I were to do it again, I would make the rear apron removable. 

corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> Okay so I have been reading and posting and asking and learning and now, I have pulled the trigger. I have already adjusted my original plan a billion times for the same number of reasons but...I am starting and have a goal of finishing my first EV.
> 
> Purchased a 73 SuperBeetle with a blown engine...in fair shape. I have it getting new floor pans, a lower door pillar and a brake job as I type and have begun collecting the needs for the build. Important thing to look for in a VW i knew was the pans but didnt realize the door pillar was also a hot item...note to anyone else ever looking.
> 
> ...


I'd get the 10kw DIY charger, which EV motor werks (EMW) can build for you, or provide as a kit. I haven't been too happy with my Manzanita Micro PFC-30. It has failed twice, for no fault of my own.

corbin


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Corbin, thanks for sharing too! Much appreciated. Okay, I have the motor mounted, the controller mounted and half wired as I wait for the traction pack to arrive. I am working through the HV box and I picked up a 8x8 box to hold the contactor and shunt. Is there a problem with having the current change direction in 90 degree increments? like it comes in from the pack to the contactor from the left, but the contactor is turned so it then goes forward, then left again...well to make sense of this...while standing up on the table(traction pack +), take one step forward,(contactor in) turn to the left, step down off the table, turn right (contactor out) take one step forward, (Shunt in), turn right, take one step forward, turn left (shunt out), go to controller B+. Is there a problem with making all these turns? (jeez I gotta start posting pictures) Hopefully you can get the idea and nobody laughs at you while you are going through the dance steps...my wife asked me to kindly get off the table. (okay maybe not so kindly)

ok so i have a link to a picture...http://sdrv.ms/VXeSOt


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

So now a picture's worth a dozen dance steps?

Power doesn't care much which direction it's traveling. In a typical battery pack it's going back and forth all over the place anyway. The only thing to worry about is minimizing cable tension caused by tight bends so you don't put extra stress on the contacts.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

hehheh...thanks man...and I think i finally got the picture so i can attach it too...


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

So do we normally just put this stuff in a box because its safer that way being HV? Or also to keep it out of the weather?? Will it hurt the contactor if it gets wet sitting in the engine bay?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes, yes, and yes. Anything exposed is more likely to cause a shock or short and will rust up easier.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Main On/Off to Shunt, to Contactor.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

WooHoo...so today the new Evnetics throttle came and next thing I knew...I got a call that the batteries were up at the loading dock...so i ran up and picked them up too!! So now I gotta figure out where these are gonna go exactly which should be a little easier now that they are here. I basically have 90 % of the wiring done now so the rest should be able to go rather quickly. 

So from you other buggers...i stayed with stock drum brakes as most of the driving is around town Do you see any issues with stock drum or have you upgraded to disc?

With 600 lbs of batteries, have you put in HD shocks in the rear or upgraded the suspension far above stock?


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> WooHoo...so today the new Evnetics throttle came and next thing I knew...I got a call that the batteries were up at the loading dock...so i ran up and picked them up too!! So now I gotta figure out where these are gonna go exactly which should be a little easier now that they are here. I basically have 90 % of the wiring done now so the rest should be able to go rather quickly.
> 
> So from you other buggers...i stayed with stock drum brakes as most of the driving is around town Do you see any issues with stock drum or have you upgraded to disc?
> 
> With 600 lbs of batteries, have you put in HD shocks in the rear or upgraded the suspension far above stock?


I wouldn’t drive mine without disc brakes all around! Stopping is so bad in the bugs, even with the disc brakes. 

corbin


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> So from you other buggers...i stayed with stock drum brakes as most of the driving is around town Do you see any issues with stock drum or have you upgraded to disc?
> 
> With 600 lbs of batteries, have you put in HD shocks in the rear or upgraded the suspension far above stock?


When I only had 600 lbs I ran stock but panic stops were panicky.

I'd say fronts to disc is essential. Beyond that you're probably fine for most driving. If I were driving highway I'd probably upgrade the rear (I'm running 1,000 lbs) but I hate discs. I've heard you can put type 3 drums on the rear to double stopping power there.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

okay all but 6 are in place temporarily as a fit check and the bug doesnt look all that bad...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Wow, those cells are big! What are they, like 13" long?


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Wow, those cells are big! What are they, like 13" long?


 14'x2.1x8 basically. Now its just where to put the last 6 of them


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Are you leaving the seat out? 

I'd probably just put them down where the charger is, and raise it up to the right.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Are you leaving the seat out?


I am not sure but i may just leave it out and then move all the ones on the upper shelf down to the seat level and then leave the others in the front as they are...or i can fit them all in the back seat area and add nothing to the front but i dont know if that is a good direction to go either. 



Ziggythewiz said:


> I'd probably just put them down where the charger is, and raise it up to the right.


Just not sure if the extra 100 lbs will matter that far up front....

thinking about getting these for front and rear: http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/aftermarket/shock-bug-ghia-66-77-front-coilover-black-p-15388


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> WooHoo...so today the new Evnetics throttle came and next thing I knew....


What controller are you planning on using? In your first post you say you have a Curtis 1231; if so, our throttle is not compatible with that controller. You need to use Curtis' PB-5 or PB-6 pot box instead.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey Tesseract. I changed my mind on that and got the Synkromotive for this build. I can see where building these can become addictive (short of the cost). Gonna keep my eye open for one of y'alls Jr's for something in the future too. Still have the Curtis for sale with an S10 adapter and motor mount.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Just wondering about the seat because 14" is a bit too much to fit comfortably with the seat in. If you leave it out and put the cells lower you'll have a better COG and plenty of room for the extra 6.

I have those shocks. Don't get 'em, too stiff. I think I read 'em as 700 lbs ea but they were 700 EXTRA. I've heard the adjustable gas ones are much better.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Just wondering about the seat because 14" is a bit too much to fit comfortably with the seat in. If you leave it out and put the cells lower you'll have a better COG and plenty of room for the extra 6.


Ya that is what I am kicking around...thanks for validating me man... 



Ziggythewiz said:


> I have those shocks. Don't get 'em, too stiff. I think I read 'em as 700 lbs ea but they were 700 EXTRA. I've heard the adjustable gas ones are much better.


So to put these on the back and gas in the front would still be too stiff?? Then I could put all the batteries in the back. Do you know anyone who adjusted the torsion bars to level off the weight? Or swapped them for heavier ones...I am not wanting to do the torsion route...and I have a guy who thinks I should lower the front to meet the rear...I am havent come to fully appreciate the lowered look yet.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You could try it, but I don't think even the back needs that much. Like I said, they're (up to?) 700 lbs of extra support, so with two that's enough support for nearly 3000 lbs on just the rear. I installed them on the lowest setting and that seems like overkill even with 700 lbs of batteries back there.

I haven't messed with my bars, not quite level but that's running half a ton of lead. With lithium you shouldn't need to adjust anything like that.

For the lowered look, just add lead  If you do a disc upgrade you can get a 2" dropped spindle for same price as straight. I didn't since, like you, I didn't like the look and I was concerned about wheel clearance with 400 lbs of lead up there.


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## kickngas (Feb 3, 2011)

Hey Wes, just found your thread here after snooping around for "tricks to install a 9" motor".  We were an inch shy of getting the motor mounted today in our Bug conversion and the tip on page one from Pete was just what I needed. 
Your conversion is looking great so far. You will get plenty of good advice here as you have already found. I need to find time to run down to CB and see your progress. I am on spring break next week and should have an opportunity if you would like. I am on the north side of Wilmington.
Steve


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

kickngas said:


> Your conversion is looking great so far. You will get plenty of good advice here as you have already found. I need to find time to run down to CB and see your progress. I am on spring break next week and should have an opportunity if you would like. I am on the north side of Wilmington.
> Steve


Hey Steve...Thanks man. Pete has some great tips and tricks. I didnt have the patience to work with dropping the trans and disconnecting the linkage so I opted to cut it out and hack it up with the anticipation of cleaning it up later. Just give a hollar when you plan to be down and we will meet up.

Today I got the traction pack decided on and stuck it. I Left the 15 in the front and brought the rest of them down to take the space where the back seat was. Honestly this is going to be driven by me mainly and possibly one other person would join...now that decision has been made too. Only one person can join me.  So I mounted it, wired it and now the only thing left to be able to make it move is wire up the throttle. That will come tomorrow and with that will be the new tail lights that just came in.

More tomorrow...


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woohoo...it moves! Mind you all I have done is back it out of the driveway and went down the road 2 blocks and back but it works...Super stoked!! Now to clean up my current work area, put some tools away, then clean up the installations more, cover and lock down the batteries, get it inspected and registered, sell my truck, start working on the rest of the repairs, upgrade the brakes, get it painted, mount the surfboard rack, oh ya...before all of that, wire in the charger and get the BMS.

But is now motivates down the road.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Congrats! It's Alive! Aliiiive!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Excellent news. I can see the grin already. Excellent job. 

Pete


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Congrats! It's Alive! Aliiiive!


Do you know if it is okay to temporarily wire in the charger with alligator clips? as long as i turn it all off before connecting and disconnecting? these batteries use fatty bolts and i dont have connectors in yet for them?

also before everything blows up, i have the fuse directly off the controller battery - and then the battery - connected to the fuse end, is this an acceptable method of fusing?


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

onegreenev said:


> Excellent news. I can see the grin already. Excellent job.
> 
> Pete


Thanks Pete!


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## kickngas (Feb 3, 2011)

Awesome! Nothing like that feeling.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> Do you know if it is okay to temporarily wire in the charger with alligator clips? as long as i turn it all off before connecting and disconnecting? these batteries use fatty bolts and i dont have connectors in yet for them?
> 
> also before everything blows up, i have the fuse directly off the controller battery - and then the battery - connected to the fuse end, is this an acceptable method of fusing?


Depends what kind of alligator clips...are they big enough to handle your charging current?

The fuse should have a fuse holder to support it. You may get away without it but any tugging or other movement can make it blow prematurely...not fun when they're $30-50 a pop.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Okay so day 2 of movement...I have finally worked through the tail light issues I had...mostly ground or lack there of and two blown bulbs. The old rear fixtures were also dry rotting out and falling apart with thebulb mounts falling back into the fixture...but i fixed them easily enough with some UV activated resin called Solarez.

Today i went to back out and drive down the road and it wasnt "smooth". I also heard some strange sounds and seemingly the rotations were like smooth then tight then smooth then tight...

I heard some people talking about having to ensure you have alignment on the shafts...I went to roll the car backwards by just giving a push and it locked up. so then i went to the rear with a pair of channel locks and tried to turn the motor tail shaft which normally works but it was locked. so i turned on the power again, put it in reverse and rolled backwards a foot and it lurched free and then well it almost feels as though the brakes are like too tight. 

So using the ReBirth aluminum mount has anyone else had to pull the motor periodically to ensure things are in alignment? I think i may put it back on jack stands tomorrow and see if things are smooth without any weight on it.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Okay, the flywheel was rubbing on the inside of the bell housing. So I pulled the whole thing out and then installed a slightly thicker gland nut washer and retorqued the gland nut this time. Last time I didnt bother to torque it and it may have come loose.

Also found some good news on getting a tag in NC. Since the vehicle is over 35 years old, no inspections are required! So I just need to insure it and then get a tag (plate).


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Well today I got the plate from the DMV and ordered my personalized plates. Special Interest plate (Retired Air Force) 'E*BUG'. Got the charger working yesterday and full charged today. Went for the first real drive and damn if that flywheel and front rivets of the pressure plate didnt start eating up the bell housing again about a mile into the run. I have noticed that the clutch is really light peddle pressure too and that still has me worried that things still are not right. I dont think that pressing the peddle pushes the release bearing into the pressure plate at all.

Dont know if I should just get in there and grind out the bell housing to provide clearance....


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Check out where it rubbing. Take only a little at a time till its clear. With my GE motor I ran into that issue. The light pressure may be an issue of your throwout bearing setup. The VW has two different kinds and can't be mixed. I use the old style. There is also a tube called a bowden tube for the clutch cable. It needs to be there. Had to buy one today for my Bug. 

PM me.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Okay took everything apart again and be forewarned...do not use an old gland nut in your application...for $13 shell it out and replace this. Seems the one i had i looked closely at and can see where it was damaged where it meets the shaft and this was allowing things to slip too far and once part of the shank had slipped it was all off axis and would not release to free wheel. So I have now ordered a new gland nut which hopefully will be here early next week and I will once again be on the road...but not this weekend.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Interesting! By chance do you have a pic of your old gland nut? Mine is the flanged gland nut.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Here is what the nut looked like on the inside.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looks like it got tweaked a bit. 

Looks like I will need to also grind a bit on my transmission too. Getting my motor ready for a preliminary fit into its new home. 

Mine gland nut is the performance one that his wider and stronger.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

onegreenev said:


> Looks like it got tweaked a bit.
> 
> Looks like I will need to also grind a bit on my transmission too. Getting my motor ready for a preliminary fit into its new home.
> 
> Mine gland nut is the performance one that his wider and stronger.


Ya yours looks like its for the six v tranny i think. supposedly mine shipped yesterday so i am really hoping to have it early next week. shipping USPS so there is no telling. I ordered something a couple weeks ago...took 7 days priority mail to get from pennsylvania to North Carolina.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> took 7 days priority mail to get from pennsylvania to North Carolina.


Probably had to stop by CA on the way...my stuff usually does.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Okay so I got the new gland nut with bearing. Installed and the flywheel and PP were still up tight against the bell housing. Ground out some more room so things could at least move and I could see where it was rubbing...became a real PITA so i shimmed the adapter plate at bell housing with a round of 16 gauge wire and now...no rubbing, but I also have no clutch action...mash on the clutch peddle but it never actuates the pressure plate or would that be deactivates the PP....anyway, I can now drive as though I did not install the clutch.

Ordered some fiberglass to make more permanent battery boxes and a top plate to go over the boxes and back area where the seat used to be.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Update: finally figured out what was going on now that my bell housing is ground out and i need a new bushing for the clutch fork. I tried to again take some more off and make this work like it was supposed to, took it out for a test and this time the pressure plate ground the hell out of bell housing and killed the fork bearing. took it all apart and found out that way back when, as I was installing the awesome adapter from ReBirth, the snap ring that holds the "idle" bearing in place popped off and so it kept allowing the bearing to move closer and closer and closer. So now i order the new parts, reinstall the snap ring when I get some snapring pliers (this baby is stout as it should be) and then maybe by next month I will get things going again. (Dammit)


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> reinstall the snap ring when I get some snapring pliers (this baby is stout as it should be) and then maybe by next month I will get things going again. (Dammit)


Check HF. They have those doobies on sale all the time.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Check HF. They have those doobies on sale all the time.


Thanks man...I went and got a doobie. . Honestly put the snap ring on but it won't seat all the way in the groove like it should. I found out the hard way...put things back together again...broke down about 1 mile from the house. Thankfully I have roadside assistance so I got the tow home for free. 

Called Steve at Rebirth and will ship it back to them for the repair. Great people to deal with for sure. Not sure why I am the one who has to get the one that didn't work. So...glass came last night and I guess its time to start working on the battery boxes and rear deck cover where the back seat used to be. Will pick up the foam tomorrow morning and get to doing this after it warms up some.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Awww man that sucks. For all its worth mine went back twice. Once to get refitted for my old 11" Kostov and once for an imbalance. Both times were done quickly and professionally. One issue was applied to all new adaptors.

Pete


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

onegreenev said:


> Awww man that sucks. For all its worth mine went back twice. Once to get refitted for my old 11" Kostov and once for an imbalance. Both times were done quickly and professionally. One issue was applied to all new adaptors.
> 
> Pete


Its due back home here tomorrow so maybe I can try this again this weekend. Kinda suxxored that I missed going to a local car show with it just for the heck of it. Thought it would be cool to drive around and show up with...Oh well...maybe the next one.

I got my shaft bushing kit and will be installing that this evening i hope and also got the post busbars in to use to feed my dc/dc and to connect the charger to for charging.

The first attempt at battery boxes was a bust last weekend. Will try again soon for sure. I got in my glass, cut my foam, used some cheap resin with a hot mix and melted my foam.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woohoo...everything is working now...Mounted the motor last night, adjusted the clutch this morning, got the charger wired in today, the DC/DC is almost ready...I mean it works...Just manual for now. The new adapter stays in place. Drove it to the beach and realized my odometer doesn't work but the speedometer does. I also realized I have no idea what the rpm is and that kinda scares me. For now, I take off in second sometimes and use it to about 25. I am going to 35 mph in 3rd and then shifting to 4th. 

Now I am wondering how long before i actually trust it to go off the island?? I guess from the outside its really quiet but dang from the inside you hear every loose anything bumping and clanking. I have also started running DynaMat around to help reduce some of the noise. We shall see. Still waiting on the seat belts and i have to install a horn yet.

Anybody got ideas on what could be the issue with the odometer? Thanks.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Speedo * gear ratios = RPM.

Odo is probably the loose or broken end sprocket...still need to get around to replacing mine.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Took the car up to 55 mph for the first time yesterday. I love the peppiness and it went there with ease so I am very hopeful of increasing my distance from home on each trip. There sure are a bunch of squeaks and rattles to find though.  I want to thank everyone for their help along the way in getting to this point.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Awesome Wess,

I could see the grin on your face even writing about your drive. Excellent news. Now to shoot us some video!

Pete


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woohoo...first 20 mile round trip done on major road with speeds in excess of 60 mph. That puts me at 30 EV miles! In my truck that would be $7.00 in gas and a larger carbon footprint and many more emissions. And it means that I can trust this install far better than when the adapter was hosed. So I am feeling much more secure behind the drivers wheel.

Although I just had a brake job, I am definitely going to be upgrading to disc at least in the front. I have also ordered some new suspension upgrades and replacements (shocks and struts front and rear, springs in the front, new strut bearings and ball joints). It seems to sag a little on the left rear too and its not from the batteries and they are spread evenly across where the back seat was.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

I have now put about 100 miles on the car and things are good. I had an issue with my dc/dc but I think i have that worked out now. Bad earth ground stops things from working. This morning I installed a horn and resolved an issue i had with the instrument lights. Did some research and found that the dimmer often is lame so i cut that out all together and now I can read my speedometer in the dark.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Okay so now my DC-DC is putting out 15 v and has gotten my 12v battery charged up that i have to turn on the headlights or step on the brakes to create enough sag for the contactor to close. (oops) i think i need to adjust that a little. 

got my speed sensor in and need to drill and tap the installation mount holes for that.

Oh and noticed that my speedometer is off...shows me at 60 when i am doing 55...was wondering why everyone behind me was so pissed off.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> create enough sag for the contactor to close. (oops) i think i need to adjust that a little.


The controller balks at 15 volts but 14.7 should be right as rain. Can you adjust it to 14.6 volts?

Pete


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> Oh and noticed that my speedometer is off...shows me at 60 when i am doing 55...was wondering why everyone behind me was so pissed off.


Maybe that's what's wrong with everyone in front of me...x3


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Wow...so already 4 months have passed and already a few thousand miles. I have now tweaked the Synkromotive controller up to 900amps from the original setting of 500amps and the car is very happy there, even in the heat and high humidity of southeastern North Carolina...I have gotten 0-60 in 10 seconds though I am sure I am not getting the max range when I drive like that but I dont have any worries with that either since most of my day to day is in the 20-30 mile round trip area. However I do sometimes have to do a second 30 or 40 mile round trip and I am glad I dont have to sweat that. 

The ElCon 4000 charger handles all my needs very well. I have made an adapter to i can plug in to the 220 30 amp dryer outlet if i want faster charging and made a similar adapter for the 110 20 amp outside box. It is residing in the spare tire well up front.

21 of the batteries are sitting happily strapped together where the back seat used to be and 15 more where the gas tank once lived. Each of the 250 AH cells is 19.5 pounds so the weight distribution is not too bad. As much as I have thought of adding additional cells, I dont need them for my driving and I am going to be fine until the next generation of battery technology is delivered.

I have to thank everyone here that has been a great help. Since I live in a small community, everyone local knows my car and its been a great conversation piece...seems even when I am not included in the conversations that I hear about. It is so much noisier inside than outside and the whine of the DC-DC has now become "normal" and backs off once the 12 v system is fully charged. This was a really fun project that left me wanting to do another and another...I find myself still searching the CL ads for potential donors (though I do not have the money to do another one right now for sure.) Is that normal??


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> This was a really fun project that left me wanting to do another and another...I find myself still searching the CL ads for potential donors (though I do not have the money to do another one right now for sure.) Is that normal??


Absolutely normal. 

I have three projects going


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Mostly just enjoy your EV ride.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

*Re: My first build...73 SuperBeetle..Uh Oh*

Uh Oh....Ran into a little slack when taking off so I decided to take things apart and see what was up...its not pretty...I think I am down for a while...What I don't know is what would have caused this? The key itself was fine.

Just talked to a local machine shop that can mill a new keyway in 180 degrees across from the bad one for about $100. Now i have to send the adapter plate back to Steve and Rebirth I think for a new bearing center.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

you back on the road? Did you figure out what damaged your adaptor?

...looks like a nice build. You might wanna update your Garage info to show total cost and performance specs.....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> I also realized I have no idea what the rpm is and that kinda scares me. For now, I take off in second sometimes and use it to about 25. I am going to 35 mph in 3rd and then shifting to 4th.


having a trip odo is nice to have an easy reference to miles you put in any given day....

motor rpm can be calced knowing gear ratios and tire size. My Swift doesn't have a tach, so I did the calcs and marked right on the speedo my max eff speeds (around 3600 rpm) and redline (around 5000 rpm).

you can read the details on my website...


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

How have you determined the max efficiency speed?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

MN Driver said:


> How have you determined the max efficiency speed?


 just from motor charts.... most of the DC motors seem to have peak eff around 3000-4000 rpm


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

dtbaker said:


> you back on the road? Did you figure out what damaged your adaptor?
> 
> ...looks like a nice build. You might wanna update your Garage info to show total cost and performance specs.....


Thanks DT...I still haven't gotten the adaptor back yet from Steve at Rebirth. He seems to have run into some issues there. They don't know why the adaptor seems to have been soft but they have made every effort to make it right. Rebirth actually paid for me to ship the motor and adaptor to them then farmed out the motor shaft key cut. The company that did that also replaced the motor bearings. Rebirth is trying to get the new center hub cut correctly and then they will ship everything back to me all at no cost. It has been tough though without a ride for the last 6 weeks.

I will go back in and update some more of the garage info too. Thanks for the reminder.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> They don't know why the adaptor seems to have been soft but they have made every effort to make it right.


good that they are fixing....

when you do re-assemble, be sure to use TWO set screws in each hole to lock against each other; and probably three holes, with one of them being on the keyway. The two NOT on the keyway should have dimples in the shaft to really lock things tight.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

dtbaker said:


> good that they are fixing....
> 
> when you do re-assemble, be sure to use TWO set screws in each hole to lock against each other; and probably three holes, with one of them being on the keyway. The two NOT on the keyway should have dimples in the shaft to really lock things tight.


The Rebirth adapters don't use set screws for the key. once you slide the adapter with bearing over the shaft the key doesn't move. the center bearing is part of the adapter and that mounts firmly to the motor keeping the key from sliding front to back. Still waiting though.  Started installing the new insulation and headliner.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> The Rebirth adapters don't use set screws for the key. once you slide the adapter with bearing over the shaft the key doesn't move. the center bearing is part of the adapter and that mounts firmly to the motor keeping the key from sliding front to back. Still waiting though.  Started installing the new insulation and headliner.



that's the point I guess.... from the looks of it, they SHOULD be using set screws to prevent slop from beating the crap out of the keyway. Maybe I am looking at the picture wrong, but that keyway looks to me like the hub was slopping back and forth chewing on the shaft.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

So I got my JLD404 and as I was looking at the schematic it shows the Shunt on the Black (-) side of the pack and I have mine on the Positive (+) side. Should that make any difference? Wouldn't I just connect pin 5 on the Negative side now and pin 9 and 10 on the two sides of the shunt as it sits? http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/JLD404Manual2.pdf page 2 is the schematic. While I am waiting yet for the adapter and motor to get back i have been thinking about cleaning up some of the wiring anyway since I was just trying to make it work to begin with and now have some other ideas on routing stuff. That being the case, I can always move the shunt while I am doing this other stuff. Also ordered a new heater for the car. Will report on that once I get it hooked up and tested.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> So I got my JLD404 and as I was looking at the schematic it shows the Shunt on the Black (-) side of the pack and I have mine on the Positive (+) side. Should that make any difference? Wouldn't I just connect pin 5 on the Negative side now and pin 9 and 10 on the two sides of the shunt as it sits? http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/JLD404Manual2.pdf page 2 is the schematic. While I am waiting yet for the adapter and motor to get back i have been thinking about cleaning up some of the wiring anyway since I was just trying to make it work to begin with and now have some other ideas on routing stuff. That being the case, I can always move the shunt while I am doing this other stuff. Also ordered a new heater for the car. Will report on that once I get it hooked up and tested.


some of the display units do indeed need to be on the - side.... I know the CycleAnalyst does, I had to move my shunt to get it to work.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> So I got my JLD404 and as I was looking at the schematic it shows the Shunt on the Black (-) side of the pack and I have mine on the Positive (+) side. Should that make any difference? Wouldn't I just connect pin 5 on the Negative side now and pin 9 and 10 on the two sides of the shunt as it sits? http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images/JLD404Manual2.pdf page 2 is the schematic. While I am waiting yet for the adapter and motor to get back i have been thinking about cleaning up some of the wiring anyway since I was just trying to make it work to begin with and now have some other ideas on routing stuff. That being the case, I can always move the shunt while I am doing this other stuff. Also ordered a new heater for the car. Will report on that once I get it hooked up and tested.


What heater are you getting?

coribn


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

corbin said:


> What heater are you getting?
> 
> corbin


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006VZSMYO/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

thanks man for the input on the shunt DT...good to know


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The 404 will do A and AH from anywhere, but voltage and the triggers work best with the shunt in the negative position it was designed for.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Well I finally got my motor and adapter back from ReBirth. Took some time but Steve made good on the whole thing and it didn't cost me anything but down time. I also got my 1000A 75mV shunt in. The readings on the 404 were throwing me with the 200/50. And I got to see the difference when driving in the seriously cold (teens and twenties) without having a garage to keep things warm. Voltage sag was increased something fierce. Happy again though


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Been playing with the wipers, batteries, connections, JDL404. Also decided not to register this as an EV. IN this state they want to charge you an extra $100 a year in registration fees for electrics and $50 per year for hybrids. And since I don't get any tax breaks or rebates or benefits I figure why bother. . Getting a 22% acceleration voltage sag in 30 to 50 degree temps so I want to make sure all my connections are tight. It may be normal loss at these temps since i have no garage, insulation or heat but I want to make sure.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> Been playing with the wipers, batteries, connections, JDL404. Also decided not to register this as an EV. IN this state they want to charge you an extra $100 a year in registration fees for electrics and $50 per year for hybrids. And since I don't get any tax breaks or rebates or benefits I figure why bother. . Getting a 22% acceleration voltage sag in 30 to 50 degree temps so I want to make sure all my connections are tight. It may be normal loss at these temps since i have no garage, insulation or heat but I want to make sure.



cold weather sag sounds about right.... be sure not to charge to 100% if it is expected to drop below freezing.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

OKay so I ordered my BMS last night. Been toying with the idea for some time. I also ordered a Powerlab 6 with clips and usb port and bag...everything they have on the EVTV package but in a 6 and not an 8 and got 10% off everything...so shipped for $250. Bought a multimeter from Harbor Freight and finally got some battery levels to the hundredths at last. Things didn't look too bad sitting in the middle of a charge so I put the charger on and brought things up to where it switches to CC and started to check the cells...let me say I am glad i ordered the Powerlab so I can start some balancing and get the cells closer before i put the BMS on it. About half the cells after an hour rest were at 3.33 while the other half were anywhere from 3.36 to 3.47. I think I will use the PL to pull some off the high ones and get them to 3.33 before hitting it with the charger again. 

Got the new wiper switch and was ready to put that in and realized i needed a new blinker switch too. Ordered that from Aircooled.net and it came in broken. Then i realized they only work from Tuesday to Friday and don't answer the phone...never again from them. I should have the new one in from MidAmerica by tomorrow or Wednesday. 

Also installed LED blinkers but the dual intensity is not working...they are either full on or full off so when the lights are on there is no change for brake lights...gotta send them back and get them replaced.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> Things didn't look too bad sitting in the middle of a charge so I put the charger on and brought things up to where it switches to CC and started to check the cells...let me say I am glad i ordered the Powerlab so I can start some balancing and get the cells closer before i put the BMS on it.




you REALLY can't tell where you are mid-charge by the voltage.... the curve is way too flat. Resting voltage will tell you almost nothing. If you are intending to top balance, at least close enough to be fairly sure your BMS can handle the shunted current as the early cells finish first, you will have the best luck if you top balance all the cells individually with an accurate power supply set to something like 3.65v or 3.70v, and THEN use your series charger from then on. You can charge cells individually while they are all installed in series, so there is no need to disconnect anything.

My personal belief is that if you do a good initial top-balance, you really don't need a BMS since the cells seem to stay in balance for many charge cycles, but BMS or not a good initial top balance to an accurate voltage is the way to go.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Well I am glad I have gotten the PowerLab and have been evaluating the cells and top balancing. Unfortunately or fortunately I have found a bad cell. It's not swollen and doesn't look damaged but after only 65mAh in the cell went from 3.36 to 3.656. By the time I grab the multimeter and check the cell, it's back to 3.36. I think I am going to use the PowerLab and try to draw the one cell down and see what the capacity on the cell is. Then I am going to check with Balqon and see if I can get a replacement under warranty. Wish I had checked this before they shipped my 5 new cells though. 
5 more cells to TB left with each cell taking anywhere from 2.5Ah to 5Ah.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> Well I am glad I have gotten the PowerLab and have been evaluating the cells and top balancing. Unfortunately or fortunately I have found a bad cell. It's not swollen and doesn't look damaged but after only 65mAh in the cell went from 3.36 to 3.656. By the time I grab the multimeter and check the cell, it's back to 3.36. I think I am going to use the PowerLab and try to draw the one cell down and see what the capacity on the cell is. Then I am going to check with Balqon and see if I can get a replacement under warranty. Wish I had checked this before they shipped my 5 new cells though.
> 5 more cells to TB left with each cell taking anywhere from 2.5Ah to 5Ah.



what makes you think the cell is bad? maybe it was just delivered 'full' rather than around 50%SOC as they usually are?


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

dtbaker said:


> what makes you think the cell is bad? maybe it was just delivered 'full' rather than around 50%SOC as they usually are?


Hey Dan...This is one of my originals in use for about 8 months. It won't hold any charge above 3.36. these are Winstons. The rest of the pack cells all sit between 3.48 and 3.51. With the PowerLab I have it set to charge to 3.65. This cell goes from 3.36 to 3.670 there in about 30 seconds adding about 5 mAh.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wessss77 said:


> Hey Dan...This is one of my originals in use for about 8 months. It won't hold any charge above 3.36. these are Winstons. The rest of the pack cells all sit between 3.48 and 3.51. With the PowerLab I have it set to charge to 3.65. This cell goes from 3.36 to 3.670 there in about 30 seconds adding about 5 mAh.



I wouldn't expect ANY Winston/Sinopoly/CALB cell to sit above 3.40 for very long, even if they are full they tend to 'settle' closer to 3.3 after end of charge. If you have one cell near full while the others are a ways off.... that just means they aren't very well top balanced, not that it is a bad cell.

After you have them top-balanced, if you have one that falls off the bottom way before all others, then you have a capacity problem that might indicate a bad cell....


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

You could do a discharge/charge for that suspected bad cell. Recently I removed two similar cells from my pack. Those jumped quickly from 3.33V to 3.65V. I took them both down to 2.6V and charged back to 3.65V. Only ~70Ah went back in. I repeated this three times (cycle mode). Same results. Then, when I charge them to 4.0V per cell they show almost their full capacity (90Ah). My friend did a beetle conversion recently and his brand new pack had one cell like these. I tested it the same way. I'd say you should replace it.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

mora said:


> You could do a discharge/charge for that suspected bad cell. Recently I removed two similar cells from my pack. Those jumped quickly from 3.33V to 3.65V. I took them both down to 2.6V and charged back to 3.65V. Only ~70Ah went back in. I repeated this three times (cycle mode). Same results. Then, when I charge them to 4.0V per cell they show almost their full capacity (90Ah). My friend did a beetle conversion recently and his brand new pack had one cell like these. I tested it the same way. I'd say you should replace it.


I contacted the vendor last night and true to their word they are sending me a replacement....and I get to keep the cell I have. I have to pay for the shipping though..still stoked. Once i finish top balancing the new cells i got yesterday i will be cycling the one cell to see what is up with that one. That will take a while at 250Ah to take it down to 2.6 and cycle through.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Spent two days this weekend putting together a wooden battery box for the bug out of dexion and plywood, lined with 1 inch of foam insulation and two 13 watt pet bed heaters to house 21 cells of the traction pack, re-routed some of the 12 volt system and put in a charge stud since it is so difficult to get to the 12v system with the 400 lbs of lithium sitting on top. Installed the last 4 cells in the luggage area, installed additional soundproofing in the luggage area. BMS shipped yesterday so will install that this weekend, finish up the wiring, set my Elcon charger to the new 40 cells from 36, install some more of the soundproofing
and be up and running I hope. I like the heater I roughly fashioned and will see how that works to keep the cab warm while driving too though I expect it to be warmer this weekend and probably won't need it though.


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