# Frequently Asked Questions Regarding Electric Cars



## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Q: How much will it cost me to convert my car to electricity?

A: Using a standard DC system & components with average performance, you can expect to pay between $3000 and $6000 US. The price varies substantially depending on how fast and far you wish to drive. Some have converted cars for under $1000 US by using second-hand parts.



Q: How far can I drive in an EV?

A: Range is limited by budget. While a typical conversion may offer 60 miles on a charge, you will generally never get beyond 100 miles (160 km) using Lead-Acid batteries. The larger the Lead Acid battery pack the heavier it gets until the weight of the battery pack reaches the car’s limitations. 
If you can afford Lithium batteries coupled with an AC system, range can be anywhere from 100 to 400 miles. Lithium batteries are not cheap however. A typical set with about 200 miles range might cost upwards of $20,000 US.
When calculating range, it may be helpful to consider that approximately 9.5KwHrs of usable battery capacity is approximately equal to 1 gallon of gas in the same car at the same gross weight (based on real-world observations of builders on this forum). That works fine for the "first gallon," because there are weight savings on the engine and associated components, but since batteries weigh between 30-70 times more than gasoline (in 2011, subject to change) you will quickly find your gross weight exceeded when adding a bigger "tank." Also, don't forget that other factors (Peukert effect; maximum safe discharge levels; maximum "c" discharge rates) can further degrade the theoretical range of your pack.



Q: How fast can an Electric Car go?

A: As fast as you like. Just like a gasoline powered car, you can modify and tune your EV until it leaves super-cars in it’s wake. While most EV’s are commuter cars, there are a handful that offer staggering performance. The most talked about would be the Tesla Roadster; an all-electric sports car with a 0-60mph time of 3.6 seconds and 245 miles of driving range between charges. 



Q: How long does it take to charge?

A: On average, a home converted car will charge fully overnight. With Lead Acid batteries, 70% of the charging is done in the first 40% of charging time. The rest is the “topping up” stage of the charging process. 
Technology is changing constantly however, and with new battery technology comes faster charging times. The newly released AltairNano Lithium batteries are supplied in the upcoming Phoenix SUT which can fast-charge completely in under ten minutes.



Q: Can alternators/generators be used to recharge the car while driving?

A: Unfortunately (other than making your EV a hybrid, or capable of regenerative breaking - see below) this is impossible, because it would violate one of the fundamental laws of physics. Basically, it means that you cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in. You will always use more power to turn the alternator or generator (eg, wind, or drive-shaft) than you could get back from the alternator or generator.

-> Using a generator while slowing and stopping your car (aka _Regenerative Braking_) is one option where you can recover extra range (up to 10% normally) by actuating a generator when your foot touches the brake pedal. Some Hybrids use this technology too.

Q: Are electric cars any more efficient and green than a normal car or do they just have a longer tailpipe (back to the power plant)?

Even when coupled with the standard fossil fuel burning power from the grid electric cars are substantially more efficient and better for the environment than their ICE counterparts. Tesla motors compares the efficiency from the source to the wheels of several efficient ICE and hybrid cars and found their electric car was twice as efficient as popular hybrids while producing a third of the emissions. Compared to a similar ICE roadster the Tesla was six times as efficient with a tenth of the emissions. The high efficiencies of electric power plants, batteries, controllers and motors means more of the power source ends up moving you down the road rather than heating up the air.


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## rbgrn (Jul 24, 2007)

Nice. I think I'll link the FAQ link up on the menu bar to this wiki page.


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## PainBank (Apr 22, 2009)

as to adding a generator to charge while driving, I disagree with the way the answer is stated.

Yes, you can add a generator, such as a tow behind module (provided everything is setup correctly, which might not be correct for a specific conversion) and yes it does then make the EV technically an HEV, but it can be done.

So I feel the answer is yes it can be done, but it depends on the setup of the EV and it technically is no longer an EV, but it can be done. Perhaps not easily, but still.


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## judebert (Apr 16, 2008)

The answer for "How long does it take to recharge?" is fundamentally flawed. The problem isn't really in the batteries: the problem is moving that much energy around. Even a small EV carries 15kWh; to replace that in ten minutes you'd need 90kW! For contrast, a home outlet provides 1.5kW *max*. You'd need a direct line to the power station, with a cord a foot in diameter, to charge an EV like that.


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## Chew (Jun 20, 2010)

PainBank said:


> as to adding a generator to charge while driving, I disagree with the way the answer is stated.
> 
> Yes, you can add a generator, such as a tow behind module (provided everything is setup correctly, which might not be correct for a specific conversion) and yes it does then make the EV technically an HEV, but it can be done.
> 
> So I feel the answer is yes it can be done, but it depends on the setup of the EV and it technically is no longer an EV, but it can be done. Perhaps not easily, but still.


 

Yes, it can be done, however, according to the *law of conservation of energy*, you may only capable to recover about 10% of the total energy from the battery. Unless you always going downhill, that would be possible to recharge your battery pack from the regenerative process. In a simple word, there must be always an energy lost such as friction, heat, vibration, sound, etc that cannot be recovered.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

judebert said:


> The answer for "How long does it take to recharge?" is fundamentally flawed. The problem isn't really in the batteries: the problem is moving that much energy around. Even a small EV carries 15kWh; to replace that in ten minutes you'd need 90kW! For contrast, a home outlet provides 1.5kW *max*. You'd need a direct line to the power station, with a cord a foot in diameter, to charge an EV like that.


Even if you had the juice available, PbA batteries (in particular, but this is true of all batteries) are designed to be charged at a certain voltage at a certain amperage. The internal resistance would cause them to explode if you put that much juice in them. Not having the power is a moot point when you would blow them up anyway.


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## Poohstyx (Dec 22, 2010)

I assume that the 1.5Kw home outlet max is for the US?
Unless my numbers are way off, I would expect 3.6 or 7.2Kw max in the UK, depending on weather I use the 15 or 30 amp loop.


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## badlittlemonkey (Dec 28, 2010)

Chew said:


> Yes, it can be done, however, according to the *law of conservation of energy*, you may only capable to recover about 10% of the total energy from the battery. Unless you always going downhill, that would be possible to recharge your battery pack from the regenerative process. In a simple word, there must be always an energy lost such as friction, heat, vibration, sound, etc that cannot be recovered.
> 
> Interesting point of view, I'm new to this and still running all this new information through my head yet one of the idea's I would like to try is a permanent magnet generator.
> 
> ...


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## pluggedin (Sep 20, 2011)

badlittlemonkey said:


> Chew said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it can be done, however, according to the *law of conservation of energy*, you may only capable to recover about 10% of the total energy from the battery. Unless you always going downhill, that would be possible to recharge your battery pack from the regenerative process. In a simple word, there must be always an energy lost such as friction, heat, vibration, sound, etc that cannot be recovered.
> ...


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## badlittlemonkey (Dec 28, 2010)

hmmm that is why I have been looking at a EMP 450 amps, 24 volt brushless alternator set inline with a warp 11 motor, wired to a coverter then to a battery charger, but as it has been said some people think in wont work so will just do a test vehicle just to see what happens.

http://www.emp-corp.com/products/advanced/Power450/

I would like to see if It was possible to get a few more Km's out of the battery pack is all :-0)


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

A silly question to those who have done it but why is it so expensive to do a convertion to EV.

Where is the expense spent????
John


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## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

badlittlemonkey said:


> hmmm that is why I have been looking at a EMP 450 amps, 24 volt brushless alternator set inline with a warp 11 motor, wired to a coverter then to a battery charger, but as it has been said some people think in wont work so will just do a test vehicle just to see what happens.
> 
> http://www.emp-corp.com/products/advanced/Power450/
> 
> I would like to see if It was possible to get a few more Km's out of the battery pack is all :-0)




ok, I'm only going to say this once. It will not work. THe reason is simple, Unless you introduce energy from outside the physical unit (gravity like a hill, wind at your back solar power on the roof etc etc) you cannot get MORE energy out of the car than you put into it.


It's basic physics guys, come on! It's like me saying, I could power a waterwheel if I carry buckets of water to the top of my house and run it off the peak of my roof onto a waterwheel....well yes I could and then I could get some energy from that....OR I COULD SIT ON MY ASS AND CONSERVE THE ENERGY! Because the rules of entropy mean that when yhou change the state of energy (ie. kinetic to electrical) you lose some of it to another medium...heat, noise, vibration etc....so you'll NEVER get out what you put in....same goes for permanent magnet motors....guy please....magnets took energy to create....if you magically are able to get cyclical motion from the magnets to create energy....great....however it will not be equal to the amount of energy it took to create those magnets....so in other words it's not renewable. It's finite....not chemically stored but physically stored energy in the magnet that you are draining from it to get motion....it is a mistake to think that energy is free...there is NO FREE LUNCH! 

ok rant complete. But seriously, you are all far smarter than that.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Simple answer to those wanting to charge as they drive, it deffinately wont work, if it did regenerative braking would not work.

Regen braking uses the inertia of the car to slow the car down and put some back into the batteries, the operative words here are 'SLOW THE CAR DOWN.

If you want to maintain speed while regen braking you would have to accellerate and use more power..... Simples....


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

johnsiddle said:


> A silly question to those who have done it but why is it so expensive to do a convertion to EV.


You're right. That is a pretty silly question. Obviously the money is for parts. You can't just whack an ICE with a hammer and turn it into an EV. You have to have an electric motor, a motor controller, batteries, lots of batteries, and other stuff. These parts are usually obtained by buying them.

Money can be exchanged for goods and services.

If you want a peanut, you need to pay for it.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> You're right. That is a pretty silly question. Obviously the money is for parts. You can't just whack an ICE with a hammer and turn it into an EV. You have to have an electric motor, a motor controller, batteries, lots of batteries, and other stuff. These parts are usually obtained by buying them.
> 
> Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
> 
> If you want a peanut, you need to pay for it.


That's a very insulting answer from a senior member if you don't mind my saying so.
I rather thought an intelligent member would have ventured to list exactly or roughly, which parts of a build tend to constitute the biggest cost.

Thank you for your input but in future keep your insults to yourself.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

johnsiddle said:


> I rather thought an intelligent member would have ventured to list exactly or roughly, which parts of a build tend to constitute the biggest cost.


You didn't ask how much different parts cost. You just asked Why EV cost money?

As for how much each one is, it varies greatly depending on performance needs/wants, as well as location/resources and level of DIY.

A motor can run from $100-$25,000. $1-3k is typical
A motor controller is about the same.
Batteries are ~$125/mile of range. $5-10k typical
Charger $500-3000
Adapter/coupler $50-1000
Those are the big ones, the rest typically add up to $1-3k.

The low end of those involve building your own. Obviously if you do your own work we count that as free. If you have friends or generous machinists/shop guys you can get stuff done cheap, or you may have to pay $50-100/hr.

Anything you get used or scrounge will trim costs. Anything you can get local will save shipping, which may be 10% of the whole project.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> You didn't ask how much different parts cost. You just asked Why EV cost money?
> 
> As for how much each one is, it varies greatly depending on performance needs/wants, as well as location/resources and level of DIY.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

very insulting. I will probably ask a lot of questions that seem obvious to veteran EVers too but if I do it's not because I'm stupid but because not everything is obvious to everyone.

My response to the original question would be, it's really not that expensive given that the average cheap ICE car is about 15k and most conversions are less than that.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Jamie EV said:


> very insulting. I will probably ask a lot of questions that seem obvious to veteran EVers too but if I do it's not because I'm stupid but because not everything is obvious to everyone.
> 
> My response to the original question would be, it's really not that expensive given that the average cheap ICE car is about 15k and most conversions are less than that.


Thank you for the support, your answer did only partially answer the question but was certainly not insulting.
Regards John


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## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

My pleasure, my friend. I am also looking at ways to mitigate the cost associated with conversion...and so far not getting too far. I will continue to try to scrounge for motors and components....I hope I can find something worthwhile. Until then I will keep scheming and dreaming


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

When I posted the question like a lot of other people I was just getting started, thankfully others were more helpful, Woodsmith especially so.

I have moved on and am at a very late stage with my 2001 Volvo V40. soon I will be fitting my third set of power mosfets after the first ones blew up but I am hopeful this time.

But so far the cost has not been too bad, batteries will be the big cost..


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

My volvo effort, the controller is now at version 2 .

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/converting-my-2001-volvo-v40-75026.html


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Sorry If I have misunderstood forum rules in this thread, but what are the FAQs in respect of keeping clutch and gearbox in the equation. Has new understanding erased this idea?
CyO


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

CyO said:


> but what are the FAQs in respect of keeping clutch and gearbox in the equation.


Have you read the thread from the main page? http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14163


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks for that Ziggythewiz. No, but I am about. A lot to get your head around as a new member, and that is just the forum.
Many thanks.
CyO


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## pianojim (Dec 4, 2015)

What is the actual outside diameter of the drive motor housing for a ez-go golf cart, or a club car?


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## coronan (Mar 21, 2018)

Can Someone update the first post. I suspect cost has come way down. It was last updated in 2011. Currently Tesla's cost ~ $100,000 and can travel ~250 miles. 

Can 200 mile range be done cheaper via DIY?

Thanks!


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