# Complete newbie - Ford Mondeo conversion



## Spherical (Jul 13, 2009)

Hello everyone!

I've been interested in EVs for a while now and have rummaged through online material to get more information. Unfortunately for me, there are no EV clubs or groups (at least to my knowledge) in my small country (pop. of 2 million), so my best hope of acquiring the facts and help is the internet (and, hopefully, this site ).

Added to this is the fact that I have very little mechanical and practically no electronic experience. The good news is that my father has no trouble with electrical engineering and equations, so he can help me on that part.

What I'm thinking (note the word thinking, right now the conversion seems like a very big and tough project to undertake) of doing is converting my Ford Mondeo (European mk1, curb weight of about 1,300kg (2,900lb), I'm not 100% that is completely accurate) to an EV. It has 240,000 kilometres on it right now, but it's been well taken care of. What would my specifications be?

Maximum range: About a 100km (62 miles)
Performance: I'd like the car to have better acceleration than with the current ICE (a 1.8litre naturally aspirated petrol engine with 120hp), yet lower maximum speed (I think the latter is logical). It would have to reach 140km/h (87mp/h) for the motorway. I was thinking of a 330-ish V setup with a 3-phase 59kw AC induction motor. Also, the controller that comes with this motor has the regenerative feature, which I'd like.
Budget: Anywhere up to 10,000€
Parts: As stated above, I was looking at an Azure Dynamics AC induction motor that has a peak shaft power of 59kw and 280nm peak torque (compared to my ICE's 180nm at the moment). The controller for this motor is made by the same company. As for the batteries, I'm looking at different options (with lead-acid batteries seeming too heavy, the Ni-Cd have a memory effect, Ni-Mh seem to have excellent high-voltage properties but I'm not sure I could buy a sufficient amount of them, while the Li-ion and Li-Pol are probably far too expensive to be valid for this project).

I apologise for any errors I might have made, but as I've said, my knowledge of this whole thing is very limited and only mostly encompasses what I've found on the web.

Oh and why would I like to do such a conversion? There are several reasons, really. First, I like to do my part of helping to keep the environment clean (which, in my case, is usually preserving energy/water, etc.). The gas prices are only going to go up and I wouldn't like to torture my wallet further in the future. The idea of an electric, almost-silent car, which you can plug in at home is wonderful.

So, that's about it. Hopefully, you experts can lend me some assistance.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

For 300v, you're looking at around 25 PbA, or around 800 kilos. The GRVW appears to be 2,384 kilos, and the curb weight is 1435–1611 kilos. That gives you only 949 kilos at best to play with, 800 going to batteries, leaves 149 kilos for all passengers and other components. While there are things you can do to lighten it up, you are very close to the GVRW at that voltage using PbA.

I don't know about in the EU, but in the US, NiMH and NiCAd are essentially impossible to obtain. To get 300v of Lithium ion, you'd need 84 cells. For 100 Ah batteries, you're looking around $120 OEM + shipping. Since top speed is not the biggest priority for you, 80 Ah might be acceptable, but I could not readily find a price for 80 Ah. You techincally need 62 Ah (At 62m, assuming around 300 W/mi, which is a pretty fair estimate, you would need 18.6kW. 18.6k/300v = 62 A needed) The total cost for 100 Ah would be 120 x 84 = $10,080. Lucky for you, the convversion rate is in your favor, making it 7,207 Euro. 

Now the 60 Ah would not be good enough - they don't quite meet the number, and that doesn't leave any room for saving any depth of discharge, which will shorten the life. But the 80 Ah gives you about a good 20% extra while still meeting your needs. The 100 Ah was listed at 120, the 60 at 80, so 100 seems reasonable for 80 Ah. At only 100 each, you save around 1,200 Euro., leaving you at a cool 6k.

This doesn't include any sort of BMS, however, which will often run ~2k. Now that only leaves you about 2k (or 1k if you go with the 100 Ah and enjoy the extra range and performance) for the rest of the conversion, and AC is pretty expensive. But you may be able to come really close to budget, say 12-14k rather than 10k. 

I realize 50% overbudget isn't exactly exciting, but I don't think PbA can cut it in this app.

However, you may want to reconsider DC. It can be done much more cheaply - only need somewhere around 172V (that's the top end for Warp motors, which I think you'd need as this is a bit of a chunky vehicle), which cuts your battery cost by half. It also puts you in range for PbA, which custs the battery cost by about half. And it cuts your motor/controller costs by about a third. I think you could still reasonably get the performance you're looking for out of a DC conversion. AC is great on performance, but your stated goals are not outside of DC range, and DC is heaps cheaper.


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## Spherical (Jul 13, 2009)

First of all, thank you very much for such a prompt and detailed reply.

Next, I'd like to ask you to explain a few of the things you've said, as I can't get my head around to what they mean.



rillip3 said:


> For 300v, you're looking at around 25 PbA, or around 800 kilos.


What is PbA?



rillip3 said:


> While there are things you can do to lighten it up, you are very close to the GVRW at that voltage using PbA.


What does GVRW stand for? I assume it's some kind of a maximum weight for this car?



rillip3 said:


> This doesn't include any sort of BMS, however, which will often run ~2k.


Another acronym I'm not familiar with - BMS.



rillip3 said:


> However, you may want to reconsider DC. It can be done much more cheaply


I was under the impression that DC motors were not very good at pulling the car up a hill?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rillip3 said:


> I don't know about in the EU, but in the US, NiMH and NiCAd are essentially impossible to obtain.


I pondered buying a second hand EV that ran on flooded NiCd, it "only" needed a few cells replaced and it would be ok with restored range and all. Turned out there's an environmental fee on NiCd in EU (because of the Cd) that makes the Saft NiCd-batteries about as expensive as LiFePO4. If you already have a car there's of course an additional cost in new charger, BMS etc, but if you don't have any of that stuff but have to buy everything anyway I'd recommend against NiCd if you live in EU. Frankly, I'm surprised you can even still buy NiCd with those prices...


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Spherical said:


> What is PbA?


Pb is lead, A stands for acid. Ie lead-acid batteries, related to ordinary starter batteries but you need deep cycle versions in an EV. Too much weight, too little charge. Cheap, sure, but debatable if it's worth it in the long run.



Spherical said:


> Another acronym I'm not familiar with - BMS.


Battery Management System. More or less everything more complicated than PbA-batteries crave BMS to keep their capacity in the long run. Cheap charger or lousy BMS is a sure way of damaging batteries.



Spherical said:


> I was under the impression that DC motors were not very good at pulling the car up a hill?


Why whouldn't they? In the end it's all about how many kW can you get down into the pavement. Same situation as in any other car.


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## Spherical (Jul 13, 2009)

Thank you for this quick response. I didn't think there'd be so much information so fast on this forum. 

As for DC versus AC motors, this is only what I've read. And it said that the AC motors were more suitable for cars that did more hillclimbing (which in my case is not exactly true, but I don't live in a very flat environment either).

And about the voltage - this is, to be honest, more of a kick in the dark for me. Wanting at least matching performance (acceleration wise, anyway) if not better than the ICE, I was under the impression that 300V would deliver such a performance from a 59kw motor.

If matching performance could be met with a lower voltage and thus fewer batteries, which would consequently lower the overall cost, I wouldn't turn away from it.

I'm also entirely unfamiliar with the brands of the motors (forgot to mention that getting such motors over here will probably be a bit of a challenge, which means I'll have to buy abroad).


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## samabhi111 (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks for the information. I was searching for the same thing.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Spherical said:


> First of all, thank you very much for such a prompt and detailed reply.
> 
> Next, I'd like to ask you to explain a few of the things you've said, as I can't get my head around to what they mean.
> 
> ...


PbA - lead (Pb) Acid batteries. GVRW is my botched spelling of GVWR, gross vehicle weight rating. The most it can hold before you break something.

BMS - battery management system. Lithium batteries need a smart charge, they will not tollerate abuse in charging the way a lead-accid can (and lead acids aren't too fond of it either, but nobody cares because they're cheap).

You can get upa hill just as well with a DC as an AC. If you are in a very hilly area, you will just want to plan for a high amp controller and deep batteries. The motor won't be a limiting factor. AC does perform better, there's no doubt. But it's largely because the bigger a motor is, the more efficient it is, and with 300 +v at your disposal, you can afford to be chunky.

For a vehicle the weight of what you're looking, look at a NetGain Warp style DC motor (http://www.go-ev.com/), probably the TransWarp 9. Most vehicles can get stock performance witha 500 A controller, but as yours is a bit heavy and you want better than stock, look for the largest Amp controller you can afford (that your batteries can still pull). There are some 1k controllers bouncing about out there. Most popular is the Zilla but AFAIK they are currently on backorder for like, 6+ mo.


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