# Brusa NLG 513 not charging



## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

Hi all, first time poster here. I have searched this forum on Brusa info and did not come up with much. I have read the manual on the 513 and it doesn't have info on connecting to it with the serial port on a laptop using terminal or charge star.

My Brusa quit charging and now I must hook up to it using the laptop, does anyone know if there are pictures anywhere or anyplace that might describe what pins I am suppose to connect to on the end of the serial cable opposite the computer? I just need to see if there are error codes or what is stopping it from charging. 

I read the Brusa manual and know what pins in the Brusa to plug into but how do I plug those three wires into one end of the serial port cable that will be plugged into my laptop. Sorry, I am a complete rookie here. If anyone can point me to some info on this I would appreciate it. 

http://www.evalbum.com/1892


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## Picasso (Sep 28, 2010)

Do you know what cables from the Brusa are ground? TX / RX? If you can find those you are set and google is your friend. 
http://shup.com/Shup/421192/1109372724.png
http://shup.com/Shup/421191/110937265.png


Metric Mind *might* help if you email him. 
http://www.metricmind.com/library.htm


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

Thank you! I was able to find the first link in a manual. I googled up a storm and never found the info on your second link. Thanks again this helps a lot.


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

I see both pages are in the manual. How the hell did I miss the page on serial ports. 

Ground on the Brusa is either pin 15 or 1. I would try 15 first. Looks fairly striaght forward but who know? Thanks.


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## Picasso (Sep 28, 2010)

Also fear not your warranty being denied. The Magnuson-Moss _Warranty Act_ (P.L. 93-637) protects you. Just make sure to document everything you do with the car.

I'm going to guess your charger talks over CAN to the bms. I would also have to guess this is why your charger is not turning on. From the manual it looks like you can force the charger on. Use great care, and get a mutli-meter. Should also hunt down some info on what BMS is in your car.


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

Thanks for all your help. The Brusa manual clearly tells how to hook up the serial port cable. I don't think I will be inputting into the charger, I will have to wait for a EE to do that. I want to go as far as I can without messing things up. I don't have a clue but I must learn as much as I can so I can understand what the EE is telling me when the time comes. 

Yes my charger is connected to the BMS with three wires going to the CAN on the charger. The tech from Li ion Motors sent me a plug with a jumper from pin 2 to 3 if I remember right. I unplugged the can plug and plug the blank plug in with the jumpers, this is suppose to bypass the BMS and allow the charger to charge with out BMS. By the time I received the blank plug in the mail with the wire going to from pin 3 to 2, none of the charger lights would come on when plugged in, a week earlier one yellow light would come on with the normal CAN plug plugged in. I wish I could try to force the charger on but I don't know what command to give it, maybe it is that Home/something/something/ command I came across while reading. I tied to find it in the manual again but may have not read it their. The multimeter? Is that to be connected to the batteries or the charger? I will read the manual closer and see how I can force it. Thanks.

This car is super proprietary. They would not tell me what was in it when I ordered the car. I found out because all the components have names on them, I don't think the BMS will have a name on it. The only mysteries left are the batteries and the BMS. I believe they are Kocams but until I verify them who knows? (Li ion Motors says I will void the warranty if I open the battery box.) I will have to verify them to know the charging curves. When I first brought the car home the charger took it to 327 volts, 4.09 to 4.11v per cell. About a year later it needed repairs and they upped the volts to 334v, 4.15 to 4.17v per cell. I don't trust the numbers on the display screen as the charger only puts out 12.5 amps and the display says 13 amps when charging. When I did my 145 mile range check I plugged in, started charging at 5% and the screen read 14 amps were being drawn. When it says 14 on the screen it is actual drawing 2 more amps out of the wall.
The techs from Li ion Motors tell me the pack still has 20% when it reaches zero.
When I did the range check below is when I noticed the chargers problems beginning. I was emailing some other eyaris owners. All three of our cars are here. (The 3 Yarises) http://www.evalbum.com/battb/KOKA

Wanted to let you guys know I did a range check yesterday. It is the first one I have done since they raised my charging profile up from 328 volts, 98% to 333 volts, 100%. I went from Portland OR. to Longview WA and around town. It was mixed city driving with approx 50 miles at 55 mph included. The car went 145 miles and I did subtract .3 tenths of a mile for every 5 miles as the speedo is fast and the odometer reads more miles than traveled. I was at 0 and I still had a mile to make it home. I tested the car while at 0 range and it appeared as if it would accelerate up to 55 mph if I pushed it. At one point it said I had 7 miles left and I had to go 14 miles and it made it without going into limp mode. When I started the total volts were 332 the total volts went down to 268 but started to charge at 273. The cells started out at 4.15 and 4.17, the cells were out of balance as it began charging at 3.38 and 3.45 and it is never out of balance when only running 50 or 60 miles in between charges, the cells are always with in .03 thousandths, the cells were with in .03 of each other in about 25 mins after plugging in. The BMS screen read 0 when entering the garage but settled on 5 miles range when I plugged in. I think it would have gone approx 5 more miles and then gone into limp mode but I did not push it that far. I plugged the car in at 12:00AM and checked it the next day and it was drawing 4 amps on 220v and had only charged to 89%. I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it started drawing 12 amps. I came out to drive it at noon and the charger was off. I started to drive it and realized it stopped charging at 310 total volts, I used it for a short trip and plugged in on my return and in two or three hours it was at 333 volts and 100%. One other thing, when it starting charging at 5 miles range left it was drawing 14 amps, my car never draws 14 amps, I just don't usually run it down that low. This was the lowest I have had it. I have had it to 0 before but not as long as this time.


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## Picasso (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm going to guess the plug you have been given will force the charger on with no CAN signal. The fact you have no lights on @ the charger I would think your problem is the charger not getting A/C power when plugged in.

When you do get power to the charger and the bypass works and starts to charge the pack, I feel you should not let it charge all the way. Maybe give it 3 hours and let things settle. Remove the CAN jumper and try again with everything plugged in the way it was.

You should not leave the car plugged in over night with the CAN jumper in place.

Does the cars 12volt systems have power?


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

The cars 12 volt reads 12.93 volts when I checked the 12 volt battery. So I should check for AC power getting to the charger? Makes sense. Kind of weird how it would just stop on it's own sitting in the garage, but yes the charger should at least have some lights on.

Yes, I think you are right about not leaving the can jumper in for more than three hours and then try to run as normal. Thanks again


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## Picasso (Sep 28, 2010)

You check the AC breaker for the outlet the charger is plugged in?
How did you read 16amp of A/C draw by the charger? (When it worked) 

I ask.....because you asked what a multi-meter was. Well If your going to learn to trouble shoot you will need one. A super basic one to start with........I wouldnt even call this a multi-meter. http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-61-096-Automatic-Split-Tester/dp/B000LEG8EC/ But this will allow you to probe around and start looking at/for voltage, both ac and dc. Down the road you might want to get a CAN bus to USB adapter to explore a little more. I'm going to guess your car has two CAN buses in it. Factory from Toyota, and one for the Azure/BMS/Brusa to talk. I'd be WOW'ed if Li-ion motors talks at all to the Toyota bus.

You can fight Li-ion motors on the warranty because of the time the car was down and also in there hands. So you shouldnt feel like your warranty is up. But the only way it seems to deal with Li-ion motors is with a lawyer. I'm sure you have been in contact with this guy? If not you should.
http://www.blyon.com/blog/index.php/tag/li-ion-motors/


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

I have a multimeter, I just don't know how to use it very well but I used it to check the 12 volt battery. 12.93 volts is what it reads but I will put a trickle charger on it. I will disconnect it so no electricity feeds back where it shouldn't.

I knew it was drawing 14 amps because it says on the BMS screen. I was at a guys house one time and he was handy with electricity. When my car was drawing 12 amps on the BMS screen he measured it coming out of the panel in the gargage and it read two more amps. He had a tool that he could put around the wire in the panel and tell how many amps it was drawing out of the electric panel. So when it is drawing 12 amps at the BMS screen it is actually drawing 14 out of the wall.

I see what you mean, probe to see if power is getting to the Brusa.

Will the Can buss to USB adapter allow me to use terminal or charge star, and see error codes in the Brusa, similiar to the serial port connection? I am sure their must be a way to connect to the BMS also.

I imagine there is a CAN buss for the Yaris, the original cars computer is still on the car and everything works.

Unfortunately I think you right about the lawyer. I indicated this to them last week. Their idea of a warranty is 2 month repair times if your lucky.

They called today and said they will be coming out on 10th or 11th of this month. The tech said he thought the charger was bad. The EE I talked to in Oregon said it probably just received error codes and shut down. A EE right here in Oregon was going to look at it but he has been very busy and so has not. I will call him and tell him there is no need now. I need to learn as much as I can about my car as soon I will be on my own.

Yes I am familiar with the Blyon case. I actually made a entry on Blyons blog. I mentioned that Li ion Motors would fix the car if he let them. I guess Blyon did not want it on his blog as it is not there. I have tried to be a fan of the company but they make it extremely hard and instead make you want to seek legal remedy. Wonder if Blyon has received satisfaction yet.

I look forward to being on my own, because the warranty work takes two months and disgusts me. By the same token I want what I paid for, I was told the cars were reliable and did not have problems as a result I did not think it would be hard to warranty but the most I have gone was about 4000 out of 15,000 miles without the car needing some type of work done. I don't mind if something is haywire and I can still drive it, in this case I don't care that it takes 2 months for them to come out. When the car is gone or sitting dead in my garage for two months that is when one starts contemplating legal action. Try and try again I guess.

I was particularly angry because I did not get one of my switches turned off to the traction pack and went out a month later to check things and my pack is dead. I found this out about a week and a half ago. Then I told them that damage was being done to my pack sitting empty and I needed to get it charged at least to %50 so it would store alright. Now I just hope none of the cells have reversed themselves being stored dead. I don't know what voltage the pack is at, it would not register on the BMS screen when I turned the switches back on and then turned the ignition switch. The tech had me see if the car would move, it would not. We then cycled on the AC and it worked. Any way it is all kind of a mess but hopefully I have not shortened the life on my pack to much.

Thanks for your help Picasso. I will post what steps are taken to get this fixed, when the car is finally on the road again. It will be a real bummer if they can't get it fixed when they fly out.


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## Picasso (Sep 28, 2010)

Well the good news is you do have about $20k in parts in your car. How those guys can make money doing conversions I just don't know. Wish I was in Oregon I'd love to get a look at the car.


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

The car has good quality parts. The folks that build them in the OEVA say they did a good job as the conversion looks sano. For a 26k conversion in June of 2008 costs I don't know how they did it either and made any money. They have paid for shipping two ways across the US twice and guys have flown out approx 4 times, though they do have some other cars in the area I think.

Most of the parts can be found at Electro auto and Metric Minds. The Battery management seems to have all the features of the elithione BMS. I would like to verify the batteries but since they are coming out it is now not necessary.

I wish you were in Oregon as well, we would probably have this back on the road by now. lol.


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## rblack (Oct 3, 2010)

The Tech arrived and the BMS screen would not boot up. It booted up for me a few weeks ago and the view was not pretty. All my cells were upside down red, never saw it that way.  He check the the volts on some fuses in the fuse box and the volts were not getting from the 12 volt contact switch into the fuse box. We bypassed the switch and this allowed the BMS fuse to get 12 volts and the BMS screen booted up. The Tech then plugged into the Brusa charger with a serial port connection that had a jumper from pins 3 to 2, the three serial port connection wires that went in pins 11,12 and 15. The tech paged the Brusa and the charger did not respond. We plugged in a new Brusa and the batteries began to charge. The cells were between 2.89 and 3.03 and were balanced within .03 in about 40 mins. I thought I saw the laptop that was plugged into the Brusa read 220 volts, so the cells might have been around 2.75 actually. The car seems to run great now. Yahoo!


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