# DC motor options and questions



## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Hello gentlemen,
Could anyone please help me clear up some questions about DC motors for motorcycle conversions?

I would like to build and convert an old cruiser/cafe motorcycle sometime this year. The bike would mostly be used for commuting to work and cruising around town, but I would like it to be fast enough to go on the highway at least for a few miles, if ever necessary or desired.

Right now the only 'powerful enough' DC motors that I am aware of are the ME1003 and the PMG 132.
Both are rated at up to 72V, although I have found a few people on the internet running them at 80-100V. Ideally I would like a 96-144V motor, but I am not aware of any that go that high. Finding room to fit the batteries for such voltages may pose an issue, but I plan to use pouch cells, so I think it can be done.

Here are my questions:
Are the motors neutrally timed?
Can they be reversed without issues?
Are they or can they be advanced like series wound motors?

Of course, those questions are all related to each other.

Also, what would be the maximum safe voltages to run the motors at? I know I said that I saw them used at 100V, but I assume that is pushing it.
I would use the Curtis 1221 or 1231 controller, or possibly the ZEVA 600, which should all be good for any usable voltage and current.

If you have any other motor suggestions that I should look into, I would greatly appreciate it. I know there are some neat brushless pancake motors, but initially I would like to start off with something cheap and simple, as long as it can meet my needs.
However, I am new to the two-wheel side of EV converting, so I welcome all input.
Thank you.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Mate,

Unless you want to limit performance and forget about jumping onto highways loaded with fast cars, do not use a brushed PM motor. They're bound to fail. Some of the brushless PM (BLDC or PMAC) are robust and/or have thermal protection. Also, I suspect you'd have trouble with the controllers on the brushed PM. Curtis will miss the field inductance. Advance is said to useless on brushed PM, although I've seen engineers fuss with it for hours on racebikes with dual Agni drives. 

DC motor for a bike is a tough call. In the wound fields, for controller sake, series is the way. Figure to fashion overspeed protection in case of chain fail. You can advance and overvolt. Just resign to the mass and deal with it. Call it a trade for the gearbox which isn't needed.

Good luck.

major


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Thanks for the input, major.

Are there any compact 72-144V series motors that you would recommend? The narrowest ones I know of are the Warp8 and Impulse9, but even those are still too wide for a bike.

Also, what are some BLDC and PMAC motors and controllers that people commonly use? If the price step-up is not as drastic as it is for cars, then I am definitely open to it.

Finally, are there any hub motors worth looking into?

Thank you again.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Member Yabert did a nice job with a 6.6" dia series D&D motor. http://www.evalbum.com/3020. He has a great build thread. 

Hub/wheel motor-- forgetaboutit.

Forgot to mention ACIM. HPEVS AC12 or AC15 could do nicely.

major


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

major said:


> Member Yabert did a nice job with a 6.6" dia series D&D motor.


Yes, but that was in 2008... the motor took all the place needed for battery (low experience = bad design )
If I had to restart today, I would think about the ME1003, but I think my best option would be to find a used motor from a Brammo or a Zero motorcycle... or open my wallet wide: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/motor-drive-kits


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Totally forgot about D&D. It seems that they do have several smaller footprint series motors.

It actually looks kind of cool when the motor sticks out of the side, as long as it does not protrude too far.










Their motors are neutrally timed from what I can tell, so it may be possible to advance them for more voltage.
Now if only they had all their motors pictured with detailed specs on their website, instead of having to hunt for information on the internet.


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

Look into Agni motors, most common are 72 V, but there are 100v and 144V versions. You can adjust brush position, but little advancing is recommended. They have great workshop manual. Motenergy is similar, bit wider and heavier but cheaper and no high voltage option.


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## Spaceweasel (Mar 30, 2013)

I used a D&D ES16 in my conversion. It's currently running at 80V, but winter plans have me changing out the controller and moving to 120ish.

http://www.evalbum.com/5125


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## DaveyG (Apr 9, 2013)

Spaceweasel said:


> I used a D&D ES16 in my conversion. It's currently running at 80V, but winter plans have me changing out the controller and moving to 120ish.
> 
> http://www.evalbum.com/5125


Spaceweasel, I love your bike! I'm planning on doing my ZX6E conversion quite similar, do you have any more pics of it? I'm trying to wrap my head around creating a subframe to go under where the old ICE engine used to be, to mount my motor and maybe part of my batteries to, but I'm thinking of doing a shell of the original gas tank upper half in fiberglass, to house some of the stuff (controller and part of the batteries) underneath. Currently have the ZX6 stripped down to a bare rolling chassis.


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## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Have you looked at Golden Motors?

https://www.goldenmotor.com/


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Functional Artist said:


> Have you looked at Golden Motors?


Yes but since making this thread I have decided to go with an AC hub motor.

However, feel free to keep using the thread for sharing any DC motor information.


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## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

A hub motor?

What size bike are you building?


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Functional Artist said:


> A hub motor?
> 
> What size bike are you building?


Small old 70's cruiser.
I will go with either the Enertrac 602 motor or the QS Motor 273 50h.


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## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Wow!

Very interesting

No chain (weight or resistance)


Here is my fair weather friend


El Moto 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbuHfLuB5Qo


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