# Siemens 200 kW AC motor



## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm interested in this motor:

http://www.evdrive.com/BMW_project/ACmotor.html#Oct08

I would like to use 2 of those but I can't find any information about this motor. Any experience? Price? Availability? Performance? 

The Evisol converter used in this BMW is not available. Any similar or suitable for such a motor?

Is any similar motor (Siemens or another producer) available?

Thank you for your answers


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> Any similar or suitable for such a motor?
> 
> Is any similar motor (Siemens or another producer) available?


Hi Cro,

Have you contacted http://www.metricmind.com/ ?

major


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

you've got http://www.evisol.com too (it's the same as metricmind but in europe). First of all, the big pb with evisol is the price. The second pb is that siemens had sold it's motion branch to continental wich sold it (THree week after) to a german company. I don't know if they can get these motors anymore. I've contacted siemens france, these ones are no longer in the catalogue...


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## Janis (Jan 27, 2009)

You can check here from Siemens your appropriate motor, what are available now, then we could check for price: https://mall.automation.siemens.com...43-644-645-646-539-540-542-543-544-&jumpto=37


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## ice (Sep 8, 2008)

wow, nice post and very informative links!


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

80N541 said:


> you've got http://www.evisol.com too (it's the same as metricmind but in europe). First of all, the big pb with evisol is the price. The second pb is that siemens had sold it's motion branch to continental wich sold it (THree week after) to a german company. I don't know if they can get these motors anymore. I've contacted siemens france, these ones are no longer in the catalogue...


I contacted Bursa (the company that is producing the controllers for Evisol). The 200kW controller is no longer available. Instead that, they offered me a 100kW controller for 20.000€   OMG, crazy!

This Siemens motor we talked about is not available to general public but I think that I found a similar motor or the same one, just camouflaged

http://www.automation.siemens.com/_en/mc/mc-sol/en/9d2a796c-613d-4f8f-9fec-813d65b9a0fa/index.aspx

The claimed cont. power is the same, same RPM and it looks the same


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## metricmind (Jun 19, 2009)

Hello, Metric Mind here,

As far as 200kW Siemens motors, I can get those for you, but will sell only together with capable inverters. The 200kW motor you refer to is actually
67kW *rated* Siemens 1PV5135-WS28 model I use to sell. Now I found another supplier in Europe, but as I
mentioned, makes no sense to sell motors without inverters. Expected cost
of 200kW inverter is about $10k. BRUSA systems are for OEMs they will keep small guys away by artificially higher pricing - standard practice in industry.

The motor used in BMW324 conversion is the same I use in mine:
http://www.metricmind.com/audi/main.htm only I will put two of them
for 400kW peak. Should get this hardware by the end of the year for people. 

Have fun with your projects, visit metric mind toward the end of the year for better systems. I can supply you now with 100kW ones, two in one vehicle is very doable approach. My ACRX http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main2.htm runs for ~14 years now on single 100kW system, and it's plenty for any kind of "normal" fun driving (not drag racing).

Victor


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## Matthijs (Jun 19, 2009)

I have the feeling this gentlemen: http://www.evalbum.com/1454 bought that inverter from them. Coming from the Netherlands I really find it a pity that the good name of Evisol is now being used to just attract investors and to make 2 people's pockets very deep.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm glad to see you here, Victor.

Please do drop by when ever you can because we could use an insider like you over here.

Welcome to the forum


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

metricmind said:


> ...Egbert Wissink...
> Victor


He's now director of Novomotive.

I was directed to them by Siemens themselves for their motors. Egbert asked me what my budget was, and after my answer I heard nothing anymore. Gave probably the wrong answer.

ps. Victor how's the audi going...? Long time no activity.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Jan said:


> I was directed to them by Siemens themselves for their motors. Egbert asked me what my budget was, and after my answer I heard nothing anymore. Gave probably the wrong answer.


Same here... 

As far as I can tell Siemens sold the whole automotive motor division to a Norway company.

Btw. Victor, if you're reading this. The battery pack you built for the Audi is just sick  I have never seen a better DIY EV product. HUGE RESPECT!!


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

CroDriver said:


> As far as I can tell Siemens sold the whole automotive motor division to a Norway company.


You know a name?

Siemens still 'advertises' their motors and controllers:

http://www.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/html_76/elfa/elfa-08.html

Look don't touch.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Jan said:


> You know a name?
> 
> Siemens still 'advertises' their motors and controllers:
> 
> ...


 
**drools**


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## miniUMM (Jun 25, 2009)

Jan said:


> You know a name?
> 
> Siemens still 'advertises' their motors and controllers:
> 
> ...



they dont sell anymore ?


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## duedl0r (Nov 7, 2009)

they do sell it...but only in a package...so you have to buy a whole bus


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

bus or buses? ^^
I think the second option will be apply


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## duedl0r (Nov 7, 2009)

yeah most probably  I didn't ask any further questions hehe


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## ehustinx (Dec 23, 2009)

Jan said:


> You know a name?
> 
> Siemens still 'advertises' their motors and controllers:
> 
> ...


 
My company HEC is official customer of the ELFA motors/generators since begin 2005. See www.hec-drives.com for information on these motors. You can contact HEC for torque/power characteristics and drawings.

Best regards,

Eddy Hustinx
HEC


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## ehustinx (Dec 23, 2009)

miniUMM said:


> they dont sell anymore ?


The Siemens ELFA motors/generators are in production and available through HEC. See for data www.hec-drives.com. For more details (drawings etc.) please contact HEC.

Best regards,

Eddy Hustinx
HEC


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## ehustinx (Dec 23, 2009)

Matthijs said:


> I have the feeling this gentlemen: http://www.evalbum.com/1454 bought that inverter from them. Coming from the Netherlands I really find it a pity that the good name of Evisol is now being used to just attract investors and to make 2 people's pockets very deep.


Hello Matthijs,

My company HEC (www.hec-drives.com) was involved in Evisol business. Please see the following link for more information: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/bmw-bi-moto-ev-project-28287p19.html

Best regards,

Eddy Hustinx
HEC


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## metricmind (Jun 19, 2009)

metricmind said:


> Hello, Metric Mind here,
> 
> As far as 200kW Siemens motors, I can get those for you, but will sell only together with capable inverters. The 200kW motor you refer to is actually
> 67kW *rated* Siemens 1PV5135-WS28 model. Now I found another supplier in Europe, but as I
> ...


 ................


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## metricmind (Jun 19, 2009)

metricmind said:


> Hello, Metric Mind here,
> 
> As far as 200kW Siemens motors, I can get those for you, but will sell only together with capable inverters. The 200kW motor you refer to is actually
> 67kW *rated* Siemens 1PV5135-WS28 model I use to sell. Now I found another supplier in Europe, but as I
> ...


..................


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Victor, has the issue been resolved? Does that explain the editing and reposting?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

metricmind said:


> Hello, Metric Mind here,
> 
> As far as 200kW Siemens motors, I can get those for you, but will sell only together with capable inverters. The 200kW motor you refer to is actually
> 67kW *rated* Siemens 1PV5135-WS28 model I use to sell. Now I found another supplier in Europe, but as I
> mentioned, makes no sense to sell motors without inverters.


It seems to me there is good reason to sell a motor without an inverter as some people are capable of building their own, or having a custom one built. Etischer here on the board built his own inverter for his Siemens motor, based on a common VFD, and though I'm not familiar with his work or pricing http://www.rinehartmotion.com/ sells custom inverters. Jeffery Jenkins, (Tesseract), has mentioned the possibility of building an inverter IF there were a reliable supply of reasonably priced motors for it to drive. I'm guessing there are others.


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## metricmind (Jun 19, 2009)

There are *always* people who do things differently vs. what most people
do or expected to do/demand. Most people want a system to install and drive an EV because they are more interested in the outcome than in the process
of getting there. Far fewer build their own inverters, but there sure are some and they are typically sharper guys than most others. But then, there are
some who as well build own motors (and rather buy inverter for it).

But if you're in business which sustains your life and allows to expand, you typically don't/can't do what everyone wants - you go after what *most* want - this is something you have resources for. And Most want motors AND inverters as matching pair.

I can sell motors alone, I don't care. But, someone will come back to me with fried stator windings and demand warranty replacement because he connected it to something unknown. So if I have no idea how you're going to run the motor I must sell it without warranty unless *I* provide something tested/approved to run it with. Again, as a hobbyist, I wouldn't like such restriction imposed on me. But s a businessman I must impose it on others no matter how I dislike it myself, or it will bite my behind later for sure - you know how nasty and hostile people can be even after making own mistakes.

BTW, I did sell couple of motors to people who already had inverters.
Given the choice brand new motor but no warranty or no motor at all, they choose former. 

Victor


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I understand your position that it's not worth the potential hassle for the few potential customers interested in a bare motor. However, many of us buy used forklift motors with no warranty of course, while on the other hand most brand new series DC motors can be bought with no controller and still have a full warranty. I do realize there is more involved in matching an AC system but I think a basic manufacturing defect warranty could still be applied, excluding burnt windings of course. Fact is when dealing with hobbyists there will be some user error. We had one example of it here where a Netgain motor shaft broke probably because of a poorly built adapter and Netgain fixed the shaft under warranty anyway. Sometimes it's worth it to go beyond what's required for customer support.


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## electric transport compan (Sep 17, 2010)

@ Metric Mind,

Victor, it is so good to finally put a voice (text) with the Metric Mind projects. I am a big fan. I have several investors here in our area that are interested in these 3 phase systems. We currently build and sell DC kits, but would like to offer our investors a system that has a range of more that 30-50 miles. Can you contact me with info and pricing on what it takes to get one or more of these motors and inverters? Are there any price breaks with bulk orders? Is your company interested in distributors? Also, do the inverters act as the chargers and/or do they have regen capabilities? I have a manufacturer that offers a charging solution that regulates each battery during charging, determining if it needs charged or not. Do you offer a product with this same setup? 

Have you heard of this German company or used it's inverters or motors? Magnet-Motor.

Here is one of their liquid cooled inverters:
http://www.magnet-motor.de/nc/en/home/downloads/?tx_abdownloads_pi1%5Baction%5D=getviewclickeddownload&tx_abdownloads_pi1%5Buid%5D=9&tx_abdownloads_pi1%5Bcid%5D=109

Once again, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.

Brian Latham
electric transport company
[email protected]


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That 750 Volt system is not very practical in a car.


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## electric transport compan (Sep 17, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> That 750 Volt system is not very practical in a car.


That nominal 750 input voltage is pretty high. It would have to be a giant battery pack, like maybe for a bus or larger vehicle. That is just the nominal input though, I figure it would still accept around the 144v range. I wonder what the min input is. I was curious if anyone had even heard of the company.


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## CATA2003 (Jan 30, 2011)

I don't understand how they pack so muck power in so small motor , i have many 3 phase motors home , even a 25kw one but they are big and heavy , no chance to put it in a car , the invertor isn't hard to make , you just need 6 hi current igbt's and to know well programing ......now i'm making a 240v charger capable of 6 kw with PFC , ...maybe it will be a selling product....just have to test it , the output voltage is selectable ......anyway back to the motor subject tesla has some 200kw motors very light about 50 Kg , or less , and they have cooper rotor , not aluminium .
If anyone has some picture with the siemens motors rotors or stator , just to see how big they are .



BTW @Metric nice project with audi


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

This is a big problem with many inverters I see these days. 

The general idea in going to a larger voltage is to keep the transistor size small, thus making the over all controller smaller, lighter and most importantly, cheaper (This also positively affects motor size and weight). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much regard for the battery configuration when it comes to controllers like this.

I suspect the KW rating will take a big hit if you try and run the controller at 144V.

Have you tried contacting them yet?


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## electric transport compan (Sep 17, 2010)

david85 said:


> This is a big problem with many inverters I see these days.
> 
> The general idea in going to a larger voltage is to keep the transistor size small, thus making the over all controller smaller, lighter and most importantly, cheaper (This also positively affects motor size and weight). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much regard for the battery configuration when it comes to controllers like this.
> 
> ...


I have contacted them, lets see if they get back with me. I noticed their inverters were very small, and I also know there is not much to them. If you are building the inverters, I would be very interested. I can get the 3 phase motors for almost nothing.

Has anyone seen or found any capable grid tied solar inverters? I figured they would be good candidates.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

CATA2003 said:


> I don't understand how they pack so muck power in so small motor , i have many 3 phase motors home , even a 25kw one but they are big and heavy , no chance to put it in a car


That's because those are probably industrial motors built to run non stop for years. EV motors are relatively lightly used, most cars spend most of their time parked.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

electric transport compan said:


> If you are building the inverters, I would be very interested. I can get the 3 phase motors for almost nothing.


I did have plans for building one but they are on the shelf at the moment because I just got too busy.


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## electric transport compan (Sep 17, 2010)

Alright, I have came across another inverter company. This time, it has an input voltage range of 200-450 VDC. The company is called Brusa. ( I noticed Metric Mind is a distributor, so chime in when ready Victor.) 

http://www.brusa.biz/index.php?id=131&L=1

I was contacted by Magnet-Motor, and unfortunately they weren't interested in my small time 50-100 units. They are heavily involved in heavy duty military applications, take a look at some of their vehicles and you can't blame them.

I will contact Brusa and we'll see what the result is. Happy hunting, I love these tiny inverters with big results.


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Has anyone gotten a price on the 200kW Siemens motor lately or any of the other sizes for that matter?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't think Victor has been on this board in over a year. You might as well just contact him directly through his website. You'll find Brusa products rather expensive.


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