# Planning Fiat Cinquecento Conversion



## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

About the Legality of your vehicle, the best way is to just walk into the Department of Motor Vehicles, or whatever it's called in the UK and ask them what is required for "Kit cars" or "Home Built cars" to be street legal, they should provide you with all the info.

Here in the US if memory serves me right you need:
Windshield, (not just a piece of household window glass)
Headlights, high and low beams.
Directional Signal lights
Tail Lights, with break lighting
Reverse Lights
Seat belts
Parking Break
Rear View Mirror
Side view mirror on the Driver's side.(sometimes on both I think)

I also think to be allowed on the highways the vehicle must be able to reach a speed of 55-65MPH otherwise it's considered a low speed vehicle.


About motor manufacturers, I'm totally unaware of any UK AC electric motor/controller manufacturers.

Check out the AC electric motors/controllers Azure Dynamics(formerly Solectria) makes:
http://www.azuredynamics.com/

Electro Automotive in the US sells Azure Dynamics(AKA Solectria) motor systems:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/ackits.shtml

For about $7300 US dollars you get the AC55 Motor and DMOC445 Controller, the higher powered system.

I'm not sure how much overseas shipping costs.


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## TrickUK (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks for the information Mastiff. I will of course consult the DVLA (our version of the Department of Motor Vehicles), but I guess I was looking for a real world account of the final conversion stages.

I've only managed to come across one company in the UK that can supply a kit of all the essential parts:

http://www.everything-ev.com/basic-ac-conversion-kit-to-suit-vehicles-to-7501050-kg-p-209.html

...but can't decide if it's good value for money (us Brits are always paying over the odds these days). That little lot comes to US$6397.86 and that's without batteries, a charger or DC-DC converter. I'm thinking that even with import costs I ought to be able to source the individual components cheaper from Europe, the US or even various UK suppliers.

Although I think I have a sensible budget, I have to know that I've spent the right amount of money for each component at the time. Normally I compile a spreadsheet of all the sources I can buy X from, but I'm struggling to find comparable sources of similar components. The motors in particular, very poor manufacturers websites with little or no retailer information, it's driving me mad! Am I missing something?

Anyway, on a lighter note, I have purchased my donor vehicle! £201 (~$400) off eBay with no MOT or road tax, so I now have the problem of how to get it home. Fortunately I think I rope in various family members to get the job done. A little pic can be found here:

http://www.ulticonn.org/

Regards,

Richard.


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## sbarnes (May 17, 2008)

Richard,

Registration in the UK is quite straightforward. Basically you need to go into your local DVLA office and change the taxation class to 'electric'. I should really put the story of my 2CV conversion on the web.

For AC motors, Electrofit Zapi supply the Zapi range of AC motors and controllers, I've heard they seem to be OK, and are not too expensive.

I've also had the idea of converting a Cinquecento, but I'd also like to make a large Brushless DC motor to drive it. I currently have a LEMCO motor from the 2CV which may be used initially on the Cinquecento.

Steve


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi there,

I too am in the UK, south coast, and considering a small car conversion using fork lift parts and appreciate your frustrations with suppliers within the UK. I've also found Everything EV but the prices seem ridiculously high...once again the UK getting ripped off.

I'm an aerospace engineer and have access to most manufacturing facilities, sub con. if not in house.

I have a mate who has a mate (!) who owns a local fork lift company and I'm heading to their workshops to see what they have lying around and hope to source a motor, perhaps a controller (although a Curtis seems simpler), contactors, etc. I'm yet to find out how good a mate he is of my mate (and hence how much these things might cost me, if anything).

I'll let you know how I get on. Please let me know of your successes and failures!!! Perhaps we can assist one another.

Cheers,

Adam


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have you checked http://forkenswift.com/? The posts by Woodsmith are also a good source for info>


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Salty, I've been reading the Forkenswift site and have learned lots. I'll check the other source you suggested.

I'm now wondering whether a little Fiat might have such a small engine bay that it might compromise the size of motor I could get in there.

I see a lot of cars have been converted, some of which are quite sizeable.

Maybe a mid-size would be better than a micro!!

Also I've been looking at CALB Lithium batteries which look good...maybe worth proving out the car with SLA before spending thousnads on new Lithiums?

Cheers for the comment,

Adam


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

I think you will find an electric motor equivalent in power to the ICE will be much smaller. Finding room for batteries might be a problem though.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I think you might be right. I've been looking through the 'garage' on here and the pick-up truck seems popular. Slightly more 'me' than a small Fiat too...


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> I think you might be right. I've been looking through the 'garage' on here and the pick-up truck seems popular. Slightly more 'me' than a small Fiat too...


Pickups are popular because they're incredibly easy to convert. They typically have rear-wheel drive, letting you drop your motor in lengthwise and not have to worry about clearance for propshafts and CV joints (And the option of playing with Direct Drive a lot easier - the motor goes where the gearbox was, or even further back along the propshaft, and you play with the diff ratio to get you the right gearing, leaving you with lots of spare space), and of course there's all that "dead" space under the bed to sling your batteries from. Oh, and the larger carrying capacity than a regular car gives you more capacity for more batteries.

Of course, they're not the most aerodynamic of vehicles, nor the most comfortable to drive or sporty, but they can get you there.

I would love to do a Citroen conversion, but as they're rarer than gold-plated rocking-horse manure over here, and given my experience is virtually nil at this point, I'm thinking doing a (small) pickup first would be a good idea to get my eye in, as it were. Of course, having a $0 budget isn't helping there, either.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Anaerin,

I'm liking the pick-up idea even more now. I had, in my very provisional thoughts, intended on using the existing transmission and I really like the rear wheel drive, as you say, it simplifies everything. If I went for direct drive then I'd need to cater for switching motor to get reverse? Keeping the existing transmission would allow easy reverse solution and also might give some options for gearing and changing gear whilst driving?

The extra load carrying ability really appeals as no suspension up-grades required. I had a mind to hinge the bed so that I can lift for maintenance and fabricate battery boxes to drop in amongst the chassis, in all that dead space like you say. Great minds!!

What model of Citroen would you like to convert?

Cheers,

Adam




Anaerin said:


> Pickups are popular because they're incredibly easy to convert. They typically have rear-wheel drive, letting you drop your motor in lengthwise and not have to worry about clearance for propshafts and CV joints (And the option of playing with Direct Drive a lot easier - the motor goes where the gearbox was, or even further back along the propshaft, and you play with the diff ratio to get you the right gearing, leaving you with lots of spare space), and of course there's all that "dead" space under the bed to sling your batteries from. Oh, and the larger carrying capacity than a regular car gives you more capacity for more batteries.
> 
> Of course, they're not the most aerodynamic of vehicles, nor the most comfortable to drive or sporty, but they can get you there.
> 
> I would love to do a Citroen conversion, but as they're rarer than gold-plated rocking-horse manure over here, and given my experience is virtually nil at this point, I'm thinking doing a (small) pickup first would be a good idea to get my eye in, as it were. Of course, having a $0 budget isn't helping there, either.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> I'm liking the pick-up idea even more now. I had, in my very provisional thoughts, intended on using the existing transmission and I really like the rear wheel drive, as you say, it simplifies everything. If I went for direct drive then I'd need to cater for switching motor to get reverse? Keeping the existing transmission would allow easy reverse solution and also might give some options for gearing and changing gear whilst driving?


Right. If you're doing a lot of pulling and need a lot of torque, you would be much better off sticking with the transmission. It also, as you noted, needs some kind of capability for reverse.


Ace_bridger said:


> The extra load carrying ability really appeals as no suspension up-grades required. I had a mind to hinge the bed so that I can lift for maintenance and fabricate battery boxes to drop in amongst the chassis, in all that dead space like you say. Great minds!!


Yup. And pretty much every pickup conversion I've ever seen, the second thing to happen is a tilt-up bed fitted. 


Ace_bridger said:


> What model of Citroen would you like to convert?


I'd love to convert an XM, though the electronics might make that difficult. I'd like to convert a CX (If the XM is a no-go). But, of course, the epitome of Citroen style would be to convert a DS. 

Of course, if you want to do so, you'd pretty much have to buy one (Definitely a European one, 'cause it has to be left-hand drive, so a UK export would be no good) in excellent condition somewhere in Europe 'cause getting parts, or mechanics to work on them over here is nigh-on impossible) and pay to have it shipped over here, then pay even more to have it safety inspected and passed in Canada as a grey market import, and then pay yet more to convert it (Unless, of course, the garage that handles the maintenance and rebuilding before export is willing to convert it before it's shipped over).

So, if you get that nice big lottery win, it's a possibility. For anyone else, it's a pipe dream. :/


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Haha!!! The gorgeous DS!!! I'm not sure what a non-European mechanic would make of those funky old Citroens. Swivelling head lights, brakes running off the suspension!!!

I had a BX which was a good car if not a little un-inspirational and one of the best cars I've ever had was a little ZX. I moved from the US (leaving my 5.0 V8 S-Class) and bought the little 1.4 Citroen...I looked to the heavens and wondered what on earth I'd done!!! I owned that car twice!! I sold it and bought it back again from the person I sold it too. I still see it around town being driven by a trainee solititor!!!

Happy days!!


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