# Powerglide Secrets EVers Should Know



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Somethings that I think that every EV hobbyist should know about Powerglides. I'm not an expert but these are things I have learned by reading and experimenting or have seen done by others over a lot of years.

The powerglide could probably be the most versatile transmission there is for an EV. Here are some things to know. 

The powerglide in all of its varied forms is Flintstones simple and rock solid technology.

Properly set up it should allow smaller lighter motors, leaving GVW for batteries.

The torque converterless manually shifted powerglide trans has been extensively developed by roundy round racers. The parts for a converterless conversion to a manually shifted power glide can be found in Jegs or Summit and many other catalogs. These transmissions do not slip or waste power the only loss is in running the pump, multi gear manuals probably consume more power dragging all those extra gears through the trans oil.

There are a number of versions available with and without clutch pedal. 

You can buy one complete, overhauled Beefed up and ready to install for less then you pay for a good controller. 

With an aluminum valve body they are as light or lighter then many manual transmissions plus you are only carrying around what you need, e.g. Low, High and Reverse.

The roundy rounders use them for just that reason

Those who wish regenerative braking and worry about clutch packs disengaging during decel there are systems in the roundy rounder version that allow push starting. Those guys don’t have starters, they weigh too much.

Solenoid shift controls are available.

The front pump and input shaft coupling adapters are available with common well known bolt patterns, so motor to trans adapters should be easy to fabricate.

A good selection of low gear ratios is available.

They can be made to fit virtually any longitudinal drive train. I wouldn't rule out FWD either, somebody out there probably makes some form of adapter.

They can be unbelievably strong. Drag Racers regularly run 800 -1000 hp through them with BIG torque.

The trans is not too long, you can saw off the bell housing and put a readily available shorty output shaft and end cover on it. and have a trans that is about 14 inches long from input to output.

There are a number of bolt on bell housings (they bolt to the front pump after you saw off the stock bell housings) out there for common Ford Chrysler AMC add many other engines.

The trans can be, with a little re-engineering to bearings, easily adapted to sidewinder configuration for those who want to build big 2 and three wheelers.

Finally you can still build a completely new powerglide from scratch. Every part including cases are still available in heavy duty reinforced form, brand new from somebody.

I've just really discovered EVs but I'm + 60s and getting sick so I can't work with this big stuff for myself anymore. I have my own little EV stuff. 

I hope some of you younger people take another look at these transmissions. I know switching out a perfectly good transmission sounds like extra trouble, but if it is measurably better it might be worth a look. After all a lot of you are switching out perfectly good ICEs for the same reason.

I'm sure there are many of you with pros and cons and some with better information then me. That’s what discussion forums are for. We can all learn something

Jim


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

can ya post some links about them?

bRIAN


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Sure Can 

Summt Racing onlinecatalog
http://store.summitracing.com/

Jegs Racing Online catalog 
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&N=0&Ntt=powerglide&Ntk=all&Nty=1&D=powerglide&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallany&Dx=mode%2Bmatchallany&searchTerm=powerglide

ATI Racing Transmissions
http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/products/trans/pg/circleglide.htm

ATD racing Transmissions
http://www.autotransdesign.com/motorsports_ServiceCenter/default.asp

B&M Transmissions
http://www.bmracing.com/bmracing/default.html

Google Powerglide Transmissions 
and enjoy. First get the history. Then branch out look under dirt and circle track, drag racing

Google Electric vehicles + powerglide transmission
You might be supprised.
Do a bit of digging and you will find all of the info in the post in here plus a lot more.

Jim


----------



## martymcfly (Sep 10, 2008)

You are correct about this powerglide thing. A guy at the racetrack had one on a Nissan. Rotating weight was about 8 lbs. He had a starter and so he ran the flexplate. Most of the Ford guys were using the Goldstar clutches that sell for about $800 and still weigh more. However I think the PG weighs more than the stock mustang trans. Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

powerslides in fighting/race trim wiegh less depending on internal mods and options, so they are less then most of the iron mustang C-boxes.

See the diatribe about why auto boxes are problematic for EV conversions.

the only major problem that I can see is the place to keep your pressure accumulator tranny fluid for when you are at a stop light and the motor is off.


----------



## SinkTip (Jul 21, 2008)

Powerglides are very tough. I had a 1965 Chevelle with a 396 cu in and a STOCK Powerglide. It would take all the abuse I could dish out (and it was a lot of abuse as I was 17-18 years old). Man did that thing have a passing gear!
I was also thinking that they might make a good trans for conversions. I know that many of the people I've talked to about conversions don't like the idea of a standard trans. Many of the people I know (mostly women) don't know or want to learn how to drive a standard. If the PG could be used then he's right - a great addition to an EV build. 
Hell I was just thinking last week that someone could build a generic EV 2 speed auto trans and have a great market. Looks like it may have already been done! I'm not a transmission guy though, what specs should an EV'er look for?

Grant


----------



## sailfish11 (Sep 15, 2007)

We're not the first to think of this: http://www.poormansev.com/id29.html


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> the only major problem that I can see is the place to keep your pressure accumulator tranny fluid for when you are at a stop light and the motor is off.


There are a number of ways depending if you are running with a converter or not, although why you would run with a converter I dont know. The whole idea here is to get a light two speed transmission with very little slippage or internal friction. One that that can handle the huge torque that electric motors put out.

But I dont think it really matters, since nothing is turning, nothing needs lube. There would be a short (maybe un-noticable) lag as the pressure came up when the motor started turning again, pressure comes up, internal clutch engages and off you go. 

Long coasting or regeneritive brakeing though, is why you want the circle track push start mods done or you would need a trans with a rear pump. You could also install an electric aux pump, somethind like an inline 100 psi fuel injection pump switched on when the trans is in gear and the motor is off, to keep up the pressure when the motor stopped, nothing that couldn't be handled. Normally the clutches would stay engaged for a short time as you coasted down until bleed off caused them to open and stop driving the pump. You could also keep a few volts on the motor to keep the pump turning until you were almost stopped.

By the way If I have given the impression I was talking about a fully automatic I didn't intend to . . . . although now with a little thought and a good trans man. Hmmmm an automatically shifted torque converterlees transmission . . . . 

Ideally I would take a powerglide, remove the torque converter, (they make good mushroom boat anchors) get the converter replacement shafts, go through the clutches, plates, bearings and seals, then do or have done the circle track modifications without the clutch pedal, or do some other mod as above and install a manual valve body. You will end up with a manually shifted two speed planetary transmission with reverse and internally applied hydraulic clutches. Move the lever and one gear disengages the other engages (reverse lock out needed of course), store bought shifters have all that, including neutral safety switches. You can even get solenoid shifters if you want paddle shift. 

If I was using it in a situation where a bell housing would fit (also remember there are different replacement bell housings for many other engine types if you already have an adapter) I would make or get the necessary adapter plate and connector shaft. Since the circle track pump drive and input shaft mimics the normal flexplate and converter. *Note* depth of pump drive insertion is important so the coupler instalation to the moter would have to be done with care.

If you are installing it in a tight location, saw off the bell housing and make your motor/trans mounts so it will bolt up to the front pump (using longer bolts of course). If you need it shorter yet get the shorty output shaft and end cover, install them, throw away the tail shaft.

Now you have a trans that is about 14 inches long and uses standard automotive in and out connectors.

Need a side winder, support the in and out shaft for lateral loads and chain or belt it as needed.

A standard circle track powerglide can be made for under $500.00 (your labor if you are careful and shop) or sometimes bought for under a $1000.00. A full out race shorty built to your specs, maybe $3500 but that is BIG torque area.

Go price a custom built 2 speed manual with those kind of specs, bring oxygen you'll be gasping.

I'm not saying this is off the shelf stuff but once its done the first time and the information passed around. These trans modifiers are sharp and used to dealing in small scale. You guys create a need, the trans will be there.

As I said before, I would love to do this. Just 3-2. . . . (to old, too poor, too sick)

You all be well,
Jim


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Great topic here. I heard of the powerglide before, but being a ford man, I don't know much about them. I was certainly not aware that it is possible to run them without a torque converter or use them in push start vehicles. Definately something worth considering for RWD application.

I have some limited knowlege of the later ford E4OD (related to the old C6 slushbox) and its a mess in there, but I remember that there is one clutch that will apply in 1st gear as well as reverse. In the case of an EV that doesn't have to idle, that clutch could be disabled and perminately applied with internal modding. This would eliminate the hesitation when starting off and also save one more part from wearing out. By the time you get to the end of 2nd gear, there should be enough fluid pressure to apply the second clutch hydraulically.

It depends on how the internal powerflow of the transmission is like so I don't know if this would work for the powerglide or if it would cause a mechanical bind when 2nd gear comes on.


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Jim,

Fantastic! 

A 14 inch, 2 speed, 45 pound, cheap, readily available, manually (cable) 
controlled, no clutch, put it where I want it, simple, bullet proof solution
to the problem of getting both off the line performance and highway speeds.

I'm gonna buy me a PowerGlide how-to book and get started. I can put this
transmission plus a motor in the same space as the original transmission of
a 318iS BMW!! Thus leaving the entire engine compartment naked for
batteries and components.

I'm 62 and haven't put away my tools yet. I've got at least one more 
project in me.

Thanks for your suggestion, it's worth it's weight in gold.

Eric


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Eric,

Wish I was you. Bad lungs are holding me back.

Start checking older junk yards. Powerglides are disappearing. I found mine in an old yard, hiding under stuff in an old school bus way out back.

Not a bad idea, build a package that mimics a transmission in size and shape. 
*Saw off the bell housing.
*Make a custom coupler to get things as close together as possible.
*Use the available shorty output shaft and end cover.
*A set of rails to carry everything and act as mounts for trans and motor.
*You might have to do a bit of metal bashing on the cars transmission tunnel to get it as far back as you are talking though.
*You might need to use an electric auxillary pump to keep the pressure up during coast.

Get on the net and read before you buy, there are a couple of incompatible versions out there. If you go to the yards make sure the one you get has the oil cooler line fittings. There were air cooled glides, not good for this application.

Find/make a freind who KNOWS glides.

Good luck, you'll be breaking new ground, always fun. Post your progress.

Jim


----------



## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I used to modify Pglides back in the '60s, when the first alum glides came out.

Ran them on the drag strip and was laughed at for using them.

They ran great and later more were being run there....


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

old power slide user from way back. like when they were a new design

really don't need to accumulate pressure for stops as that was a rhetorical question. there is a kit out there that can activate the low band by either a solenoid, pressure or a (get this) CLUTCH PEDAL. auto shift or manual shift

you can get them with interchangeable bell housings or no bell housing at all

go find a good transmission hot-rodder and tell them what you need, chances are it is finished and sitting on the shelf ready to go waiting for you


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

piotrsko,

Yup, I have seen a couple on ebay with no bell housing and shorty output shaft......buy it now for $1K. Just add push-start kit (so I can get the benefit of regenerative braking) and cut down input shaft and I should be good to go, right?

I have seen a bunch of books on the Powerglide. Any suggestions for which ones to start with? I know what a wrench is, built a couple of VWs from the ground up, but never been on the inside of an auto trans. If I can do it myself, then that's the way I would like to go. But if I can get a fresh rebuild for $380 (current bid on the one above) then I see no reason to bust my knuckles.

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Eric


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I like the chilton series for basic knowledge and theory of operation, but they do not go technical enough to really change things. I use them to teach my 16 year old who knows everything. 

The hot rod places online have HOW TO hotrod books, but I prefer to have someone that breaks stuff regular to do my modifying because the learning curve sucks many $$$$$$. That being said hmmmmmm 500 for a modded tranny on fleabay.

don't really need push start for regen as long as the bands are engaged. the pushstart option is for when the input pump isn't turning or pressure isn't available

I didn't think the input shaft was all that long, but then again I want to use the bellhousing to make a pattern for the motor mount


----------



## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

I would think you can change gear ratios for your taylored for your ev too. Very good thread Love to see some updates.


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

So far I have seen gear ratios up to 2.1:1 for low and 1.0:1 for high.

I have been researching my 'glider' choices and at this point I would like to use a BMW 318i Automatic. Curb weight is just under 3000 pounds, gross weight is over 4000 lbs. Coefficient of drag is .28. Differential ratio for the automatic is 4.44:1. Combine this with the powerglide and I get about a 9:1 low gear and 4.44 high gear.

Now I have to find the appropriate motor.....AC.....DC.....AC....DC to complete the picture.

Eric


----------



## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

seen some fair prices that weigh in at 65 pounds. Thats pretty good I am thinking. This would open things up in car selections also.


----------



## Dr. Bill (Oct 17, 2008)

Guys....I talked to the local glide man today at length. He builds all of the tranny's for our local circle track guys. He was excited and said he could make it work. When I ask about a case and how to get started he informed me he had 5 or 6 with different arrangements sitting on the shelf and we could just try one till we found what it takes and then he would build it. Check with your locals and you will probably find the same situation. My problem is that I won't be a lot of help as I am going to be predisposed for 6 mo. or so before I start anything. Remember to tell them that when you stop the motor will not idle as this makes a difference in the configuration of the glide....Doc


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Great news doc. I will try and find a local to hook up with. In the mean time I found a book that would help me 'speak the powerglide language'. 




*Powerglide Transmission Handbook : How to Rebuild or Modify Chevrolet's Powerglide for All Applications*

18 bucks at Barnes And Noble. It's ordered and on it's way.

Eric


----------



## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

So what is the best year to get? I have seen a few used ones from 60 to $300. Just wondering to see whats out there.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

waldoz said:


> So what is the best year to get? I have seen a few used ones from 60 to $300. Just wondering to see whats out there.


Best bet is to buy a book like easoneason did. They usually cover the available OEM variations. They came with various gear ratios and tailshaft housing lengths, with different input shaft splines for different torque converters, with and without rear pump, fluid cooled and (shudder) air cooled. The books usually tell you what to look for. 

The thing is that every piece used in powerglides has multiple choices available in the hot rod/drag race community. You can build anything from stock to a monster that can handle a 1000 HP.

Whatever you do, unless your are building something very light, stay away from the air cooled PGs (they dont have cooler line fittings)

As yoo can tell, I just love glides.
Have fun
Jim


----------



## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

Hmmm...very light as in, say- an EV Trike, fighting weight possibly a half-ton or less? A City-El mod or perhaps a Trimuter kit?


----------



## installerjack (Jul 25, 2007)

In my Chevelle Powerglide that I built, I have the cooler lines plugged up and heat is not a problem. A race Powerglide builder in Texas where I get my part says that because I have my stator support cut way back, I do not need the cooler lines. 
Also, I have one golf cart 6V battery(which is part of my controller) that keeps the motor turning when I let of the gas pedal. It comes to an idle when I turn the key on.
It keeps the pressue up and shifts fine from neutral to low. I used to just bump the 12V to get pressure up and then go, but with the idle, it is much more like a regular vehicle.
If there are any other questions I can help with, just ask,
Jack.
poormansev.com
I wish someone made a little bitty powerglide for my electric harley!


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

How fast do you idle the motor to keep pressure up? Do you know how much power this costs you? How much lag time did you have with the old system?


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> How fast do you idle the motor to keep pressure up? Do you know how much power this costs you? How much lag time did you have with the old system?


Something I guss that didn't come through from earlier posts by several. A small high pressure electric gear pump like a fuel injection in inline pump and an inline reverse flow check valve, mounted in or with the trans and plumbed into the main pressuure test port. Pump is switched on under coast and/or stop. This should maintain enough pressure to make this thing work fine. Power consumption of course depends on the pump specs and how you want to use it. You might want to port vacuum ti the modulator at idle as that lowers the required pressure if you want to stay fully automatic. A good trans guy could set this up pretty fast.

With this set up you could stay fully automatic and still not need a torque converter just a pump drive. Play with the pressures and valving and you could make it stay in low until 50 mph or so then automatically shift into high and then downshift below 50 mph. I think you would just need to lock down the "passing gear" lever on the gearshift input shaft when you were in drive and adjust intenal pressures to soften up the shifts.

I beleive one of the hybrids uses just that pump system for their "automatic"

installerjack

Look at a Honda 750 with Torque converter and two speed dog clutch gear, manually shifted trans. Bet you could cut the engine Off the trans case (actually I know you can, we've done it) and use the rest on your Harley. Have to grind off the Honda names though

Neat stuff.

Jim


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Something I guss that didn't come through from earlier posts by several. A small high pressure electric gear pump like a fuel injection in inline pump and an inline reverse flow check valve, mounted in or with the trans and plumbed into the main pressuure test port. Pump is switched on under coast and/or stop.


I understood that and realize it's a good idea, my questions were directed at installerjacks previous post where he idled the motor. I just wondered about the details I asked about above.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

JRP2

Sorry if I came across heavy handed. My interpersonal skills never were worth squat.

I'm just so up about wanting to see this work and knowing I personally can't do it, I get excited as I see people geting closer or as I see it (I have a perfect picture in my mind) farther away. I just have to pop off.

Just my nature, don't mean anything by it.

Still want mommy to buy me an AMPphibian. When I finish my puller I"m going to go look for one. They seem light enough I could work on them.

Jim


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> JRP2
> 
> Sorry if I came across heavy handed. My interpersonal skills never were worth squat.


Not at all, I took nothing personal from your post, just wanted to set the record straight so installerjack might answer me.
However, I take offense that you've demoted me from JRP3 to JRP2!


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> . . . . you've demoted me from JRP3 to JRP2!


 You've got that wrong, I just moved you closer to perfection which is zero defects. 

Wont buy that huh. Well ok then I'm sorry , please please master don't beat me.

Sorry,
Jim


----------



## installerjack (Jul 25, 2007)

I am guessing it is around 500 rpm, never measured it.
My motor pulls around 150 amps on the 6V idleing.
I always have to charge the other batteries long before I charge the 6V.

There is a little delay and a little bump without the 6V idle but still drivable.
But much better and more like a normal car with the idle.

I bought my stepson one of those old Honda automatics.
That's a definite future project.
Sort of like the old fluid drives in Desoto's and other Chrysler products.
Jack.


----------



## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

On the older Glides that I raced, I put a looped line between the cooler fittings, so fluid could still flow.
If I remember correctly it had to do with the lube system, as to why it was unwise to just cap them off....


----------



## installerjack (Jul 25, 2007)

Yes, I agree it would be unwise to cap them off on a standard glide, but, when the stator support is cut off (to make room for my motor shaft), the lube system is completely changed.


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Jim,
Got another question about powerglides.
I'm looking at a motor with top rpm of 11,000.
Do you think that the innards of a powerglide would be able to stand up to that? Then I could simply use the powerglide as a gear reduction box (1.82:1) along with a 5.85:1 rear diff and be free from shifting ever again.
Thoughts?
Eric


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

esoneson said:


> Jim,
> Got another question about powerglides.
> I'm looking at a motor with top rpm of 11,000.
> Do you think that the innards of a powerglide would be able to stand up to that? Then I could simply use the powerglide as a gear reduction box (1.82:1) along with a 5.85:1 rear diff and be free from shifting ever again.
> ...


Eric,

This is only my opinion and I may be wrong, but from a gut feeling, I think a steady diet of that kind of rpm would pretty much overpower even a full out racing glide. (like BOOM )

I dont think even a manual trans would live long at that kind of input rpm. 

If you are really planing to use this motor, find some way to reduce it by 1/2. It would be much better to put a 2 to 1 reduction in between the motor and trans. I have seen (don't remember where) planetary gear reduction units that would fill the bill.

A 5500 rpm limit is more in the range of design limits of any automotive trans, Plus that allows you to stay with a more reasonable rear end gear.

Just my thoughts,


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't know that much about powerglides but I'd think high torque numbers would be more damaging than high RPM's. Since powerglides can be built to handle high power race motors, and since they probably rev higher than 5500, I would think a powerglide should be able to occasionally go quite a bit higher. Pure speculation on my part, but certainly smaller import cars with auto trannys rev higher than that.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

JRP2 (oops I mean 3)

Race glides ($2000.00 -$4000.00 depending on what you put in them) regularly push 8-10000 rpm with 800-1000 ft lbs. But that is only for a 1/4 mile. They do get a bit hot, they do get torn down regularly, they do get new parts regularly. They are not often driven on the streets regularly.

For regular driving with a generic $1000.00 (home built for a lot less) beefed street glide (see TCI), my guess is 7000 rpm regularly would be a max limit. The clutch drum and planeteries in a glide are not that big in diameter, but at even at 7000 rpm your going to be close to the limit before they start comming apart. Maybe going to the available exotic metal parts, better bearings, then up the oil pressures and increase the lube flow for better cooling, Now we are back up to BIG money. 

I'm assuming your talking about a converterless setup. With a torque converter you wouldn't want anything bigger then an 8 inch (big money) and even that at 11000 rpm  yipes !!! I'd want some THICK metal around it. Also again BIG money.

You can buy off the shelf specal explosion proof bell housing and trans case castings, but bring money.

I've looked at the available A/C motors (like the Ford/Seimens) that turn those kinds of rpm, in conjecture it looks like the output shaft Ford is part of a gear reduction unit. 

In the long run I think a converterless, standard glide with a 2 to 1 reduction unit placed in the area where the converter would go well with a high rpm motor. This would allow you to stay away from those expensive race parts.

P.S. I still want an AMPhibian.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks for the overview. Frankly with a motor that can turn 10,000 or more I don't even think you'd need a transmission, just a single speed gear reduction or just a low enough rear end if the vehicle isn't too heavy.
As for the AMPhibian, go for it, it's an easy build if you can find an old Max or Attex or something similar.  The biggest problem I've had is the old ABS plastic body cracking, especially this winter. 10 degree weather and 35 year old ABS don't go together well. At least the Max's use poly bodies.


----------



## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

Jimdear2-

How badly do you want that AMPhibian?

http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/six-wheeler-go-kart-atv.html

If you can't find one for sale, BUILD one-and ignore the ICE configuration. It's a Plywood body though, so i'd probably seal the joins with a little fiberglass and swab some Deckstain/waterproofing on it. Browse the Homepage, you'll find plenty of weatherproofing techniques in the Boats section!


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I just bought a second hand TCI built circle track glide for $250. I plan to couple it to an AC50. It uses a coupler and no flex plate or t/c. I will keep you updated as to how it works.


----------



## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

mizlplix said:


> I just bought a second hand TCI built circle track glide for $250. I plan to couple it to an AC50. It uses a coupler and no flex plate or t/c. I will keep you updated as to how it works.


Some drawings, pictures or sketches of what you propose would be great!


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes document all that you can please


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

mizlplix said:


> I just bought a second hand TCI built circle track glide for $250. I plan to couple it to an AC50. It uses a coupler and no flex plate or t/c. I will keep you updated as to how it works.



I would love to see pictures since I plan on using the same transmission.
Are you keeping the bell housing or connecting adapter to front pump bolts?
Bypassing the cooler?
Since I have total control over my controller I will be providing an 'idle' capability to maintain pressure in the trans (among other things). How are you dealing with the fluid pressure issue?
What vehicle will be getting this drive train?

If you have a blog or build thread, just point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Eric


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Sorry for the late reply. I had forgotten this thread....










Adapter kit and coupler










AC50 + Glide











in the car











External pump


To date I have not driven it but the 150PSI pump puts it in low gear easily. It is turned on by my foot on the brake pedal. I am not using a pressure switch.

It is a TCI full manual oval-track glide. I had to replace the speedo gears and "bullet" as they were removed for racing.

BTW: the adapter uses the GM Crate engine (later small block) crankshaft flange pattern. The coupler can be bought early or late patterns to suit your adapter. ALSO: I had to play with (shorten) the input shaft and coupler length to get my 1/16" end play to assure the front pump was not end loaded and fail.



Miz


----------



## JohnMogs (Dec 2, 2009)

I've read the Corvair trans is basically a Powerglide, anyone know if the commonly available PG parts will work on a Corvair trans go EV conversion?


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Yes, the corvair has a powerglide, it is a 2 speed. Beyond that, it is its own animal.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I am of the impression that a corvair working powerslide is worth more to an owner of said corvair than a used well equipped race powerslide. perhaps even more so. Unless you are converting one, I'd off it and get better.


----------



## JohnMogs (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm asking about the corvair for a mid/rear engine setup but having two gears forward, and the small packaging vs a porsche trans with multi gears and unknown conversion potential. Want to put it in one of these SL-C from www.superlitecars.com


----------



## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

hey guys, many of you know much more about cars than I do, and while you are discussing gearboxes I would like to ask a question.
how do you determine how much torque a given gearbox can handle (is this a specification given with the car?) or is it simply based on push it until it brakes  ?
for example, would a manual gearbox of a 2000 Audi TT (with original 1.8 turbo engine) be able to handle twin 9" motors with a Soliton 1?...this should deliver nearly 400ft-lb of torque


----------



## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Depends if you want to keep within the manufactures rating for the gearbox. To find that out you need to search for the transmission type. And then search for the spec for that.

You'll find if you want a performance EV you'll need to use the gearbox from a performance ICE. 

For example a BMW E46. The gearbox in a 330i rated for 320 NM, the gearbox in the 325 is 250 NM. 

400 ft-lb is 540 NM - look into a getting a racing tranny? The Audi 1.8T is probably around 200 NM.

Then you also need to upgrade brakes, suspension etc.

Also have a look at what tuners have done. Here is an example:

http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39405&sid=26a1b52f098b463c6bea3e8d5dd5cadb&start=25


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

John: A 1963 Pontiac Tempest also Had a rear transaxle, some were powerglides. The motor was in the front and drove it with a very small/rigid driveshaft.

Also some Porches were front engine with a rear transaxle.

Just a thought.

Miz


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

UPDATE:

A manual shift/direct drive powerglide works in an EV really well! I have gotten about 100 miles on mine at this writing.

It weighs 75 lbs.- my T-5 manual weighed 88 Lbs. (plus clutch/flywheel/linkage)

Things I have discovered:

1-They are easy to work with and on.
2-They can not be "idled" when a direct drive coupler is used.
3-Mine ran 170 deg. F. after an hour driving in 109 Deg. F. temps.
4-It works with Regen braking just fine. The clutch/band stays locked all the way down to zero shaft speed.(then a 2-3 second delay until it drops pressure and goes to neutral.)
5-I used a 140 PSI pump, but you might get by with 80 Lbs or so.
6- For EV use, do NOT use Kevlar in the frictions. You can really use the stock-factory parts OR use the RED or BLUE racing friction parts. Kevlar only accelerates wear because it is aggressive.
7-Do NOT use an aluminum front drum, the low band wears them fast.
8-DO use a steel front hub.
9-DO use the rear clutch case savers (made for trans brake duty). It is just good sense and stops case wear for the reverse clutches.
10-DO remove reverse clutches. Run 2 on a light car(2500# or less), run 3 on all others. It reduces friction,wear, heat while in forward gears.
11-There are several small holes to drill out to increase oil flow to critical areas. Get a book.
12-No need to change to a turbo type input shaft for strength.
13-you can eliminate the "kick down" lever and rod, as you dont want a "passing gear drop down when driving an EV."
14-Always loop the cooler circuit. It lubricates a less critical portion of the transmission that the main pressure gallery omits. Only eliminate the loop if you are changing the valve body or really know what you are doing.
15-There is not a single port to supply to both forward and reverse from an external pump. I am plumbed into the low band apply servo cover. I do not have pressure in reverse and must apply throttle a little until it clunks into gear...annoying for sure. 

I need to rebuild my Glide this winter and will search for the correct place to pressurise the trans to have both forward and reverse gearing. 

Those "air cooled" powerglides may be a better choice for an EV, especially if you are direct coupled. The torque converter makes 80% of the transmission heat. The low gear planetary makes most of the rest.

I like the 1.85 gearing for my purposes. It is lighter duty than the 1.72 version, but my usage is way with in the GM normal standards.

All the 4 and 6 cylinder applications and some of the 283 cars are 1.85 gearing. All the 327 and up V-8 applications are 1.72 gearing.

They can be told externally by the output shaft splines and the shaft diameter is smaller in the 1.85 versions...but they both use the same output yoke....go figure...

In my area, on Craigslist, I routinely find powerglides for $150-$400 or so, depending on the condition or if it was recently rebuilt.

More when I go into the trans....Miz


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

MIZ,

Thanks for following through and building and posting the process of what I knew, but health prevented me from proving. 

*A Powerglide would be a very good solution for EV converters.*

I have found it amazing that people are afraid of automatics because they don't understand how planetary gear sets and clutch packs work. This is truly amazing because a lot of these same people understand how a PWM controller works.

Here you have a transmission that has all of the things an EVer needs
Light weight
Strong
Two speeds forward
A reverse
A park 
So many aftermarket parts that a new trans can be built from scratch.

It really makes me feel good to see what I couldn't do myself done and working.

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Cool thanks for this thread guys.


----------



## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

It would be nice to see a video of the changes and prep that needs to be done to make the PG work with electric . I think more people would use them if they really understood how to make them work . 

I agree this thread is great information when I do my car I will be doing a PG for sure.


----------



## zanktwo (Mar 18, 2011)

KansasEV look this up


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Kansas EV has a nice unit. There is a small time delay getting one and a large cost. This is mine, I have less than $500 in it.










Direct drive










With an external pump









Miz


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Powerglides are great transmissions, but remember you will end up with 1:1 in your final gear, so your rear diff ring and pinion should fit your max speed you need. They are better suited for higher rpm motors.


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

*DISCLAIMER: I am not discussing vehicle current draw, just vehicle driveability.*

Ron brings up a critical point.

Pretty much all vehicles are dependent on the motor's top rpm and the car's final drive ratio.

As Ron said- My 2,000# car and 32" tire likes a 6.14 gear and the AC50's top RPM (6500+). It works by having a 2,000# car and *the RPM* to give a good top speed.

A powerglide will also work on a torque brute like the Warp 11 or 13, in a similar car. When they are geared for their top RPM the final drive works out to be a shorter 3.55-4.10 (depending on tire size). This combination works by having enough* torque to cover the bottom end*.

The powerglide would be a poor choice for a smaller motor (AC or DC), or a heavy vehicle (3,500 Lbs and up) or hilly country if you want a top speed over 40 MPH. 

Heavy haul trucks have an 18 speed transmission for a reason. To suit the motor torque to the hill and vehicle weight. Electric power is a lot like Diesel power, it has good torque over a narrow RPM band. Gear accordingly or you will be disappointed.

Ivansgarage is building a GMC Sonoma. He is using the original 4L60E transmission. It will work nicely in the truck which will be 3,500Lbs and up in weight. It is still converterless and retains the automatic shift features.










The water cooled AC motor being mocked up with the 4L60E transmission.








The motor specs are not public yet, but it is about 1/3 over an AC50 in torque. This and the 4 speeds will make this a really nice driving combination.

You can kill a nice install by "cheap skating" the gearing. (Trying to make do with what is in the vehicle.)

*Everything* is in the gearing for your situation.


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Powerglides are great transmissions, but remember you will end up with 1:1 in your final gear, so your rear diff ring and pinion should fit your max speed you need. They are better suited for higher rpm motors.


That is a good point. Most street EVs currently out there would be happiest with final drive ratios between 4.5 to 1 and 6 to one. Racing uses taller (numerically lower) gears to keep the motor drawing peak power but street use favors more rpm when going down a freeway.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

mizlplix said:


> The motor specs are not public yet, but it is about 1/3 over an AC50 in torque.


Its so beautiful....


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

It kinda makes up for Ivan then......LOL


----------

