# using supercaps!!!



## nozza36 (Apr 3, 2009)

Hi , sorry chap could you put that information into "man in Pub format"
I've been wondering about power storage in capacitators as opposed to
batteries due to weight/balance concerns , so i am very keen to soak up 
any and all advice pertaining to this application .
MANY THANKS
NOZZA36


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

600,000 watt seconds =166 watt hour(600,000/60 seconds/60 minutes ) . 500 x 3600 (1watt hour =3600 watt / sec.or J ,Joule )=1800000 . 1,800,000 / 3600 =500 watt hours . what is farad to watt hour or joule .so if 3,600,000 joules = 1kw how many farads is that ?


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## electro37 (May 18, 2008)

Maxwell Capacitors are producing a 48Volt power module that might be ideal for a small, lightweight trike. but I suspect you'd need some Li-on power to help. Eventually Tavrima Canada will sell a 48Volt supercapacitor for all the hybrids and plug-ins NASA and NYC buses have just ordered huge numbers of their supercaps. Their "reliabilty" is untouchable on space shots and in the middle of Manhatten traffic.


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## electro37 (May 18, 2008)

1 Watt for 1 second=1 joule
1 Watt for 60 secs = 60 joules
10 Watts for 10 minutes = 6000 joules
500 Watts for 1 hour = 18 mJoules


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## EV66 (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm sure some of you have seen/heard of this before but MIT designed an electric gokart prototype which incorporated a Maxwell supercapacitor for "boost." Here's the link. 

http://web.mit.edu/first/kart/#circuithttp://web.mit.edu/first/kart/#circuit


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

electro37 said:


> 1 Watt for 1 second=1 joule
> 1 Watt for 60 secs = 60 joules
> 10 Watts for 10 minutes = 6000 joules
> 500 Watts for 1 hour = 18 mJoules


Hey electro37,

Math check....500W for 1 hour = 1.8 MJ.



> Tavrima Canada will sell a 48Volt supercapacitor for all the hybrids and plug-ins NASA and NYC buses have just ordered huge numbers of their supercaps.


Where do you get this information? Got a source?

Regards,

major


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## electro37 (May 18, 2008)

I get a Newsletter at irregular intervals with "snippets" of info about electrical and electronics, "inventions and innovations". Some of it useful the rest garbage. Tavrima was holding out on the Big 3 auto-makers and would not sell to the general public. Now; he has "opened his doors" to one and all. Siemens have developed a "hubmotor drive system" which can put a minimum of 65% more power to the ground than anyone else, and which includes adjustable shocks and tire pressure within it's capapbilities. Volvo are already testing the system. I suspect that Siemens had an idea that GM and the other two auto makers would fold and so they ensured their survival in the electric drive world.


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## electro37 (May 18, 2008)

I just saw some MIT students testing a go-kart with their own desingned nano-tube supercaps as a boost, on youtube!!!!


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I am curious as to how you would wire that up into the setup. Would you just parallel the SuperCaps with the battery? If you do this, the caps would only ever sag as low as the batteries do under load. So you only use the top % of the SuperCaps.

If you put some sort of DC-DC converter in between to feed the power out of the SuperCaps down to almost nothing and then recharge from idle or regen. But what DC-DC converter has the power output capabilities and the varring capability to boost the drained SuperCaps up to voltage.

It seems very complicated as to how to best integrate SuperCaps into an EV system.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

electro37 said:


> I get a Newsletter at irregular intervals with "snippets" of info about electrical and electronics, "inventions and innovations". Some of it useful the rest garbage.


How can you tell the difference?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

electro37 said:


> I just saw some MIT students testing a go-kart with their own desingned nano-tube supercaps as a boost, on youtube!!!!


Hey electro37,

Was it this project? http://web.mit.edu/first/kart/#circuit 

They are using Maxwell Technologies UltraCaps.

Regards,

major


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Zemmo said:


> I am curious as to how you would wire that up into the setup. Would you just parallel the SuperCaps with the battery? If you do this, the caps would only ever sag as low as the batteries do under load. So you only use the top % of the SuperCaps.
> 
> If you put some sort of DC-DC converter in between to feed the power out of the SuperCaps down to almost nothing and then recharge from idle or regen. But what DC-DC converter has the power output capabilities and the varring capability to boost the drained SuperCaps up to voltage.


Hi Zemmo,

You can use ultracapacitors any way you like. Series, parallel, with a DC/DC buck/boost converter, with batteries, without. All depends on your system and objectives. 

http://web.mit.edu/first/kart/#circuit 

These guys switch them into series with the circuit. I have done it with a solid parallel connection. That will work because of the difference in time constants between the battery and cap. Others I have seen use the DC/DC, or voltage controller in the cap circuit.

It's up to you.

major


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Could someone explain how to wire up SuperCaps to give you better acceleration and also if it differs, how to wire it to extend your range. Improving the load during acceleration will probably help extend the range some but just just to figure out how wiring things up differently improves what aspect.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Zemmo said:


> Could someone explain how to wire up SuperCaps to give you better acceleration and also if it differs, how to wire it to extend your range. Improving the load during acceleration will probably help extend the range some but just just to figure out how wiring things up differently improves what aspect.


Zemmo,

The available ultracapacitor products are high power density devices and relatively low energy density compared to batteries. So, to use ultracapacitors (UCs) in conjunction with batteries, use them as an energy buffer. That is to take high power burst during acceleration and then recharge from regeneration quickly, or recharge from the batteries slowly. UCs may be a lot better than batteries for high charge rates during regeneration. So, depending on the vehicle duty cycle, UCs could extend the range. Also, if the duty cycle, or drive cycle, includes considerable constant speed travel, UCs probably won't add any range.

Like I said, you can wire them how ever works best for you. The link showed one way. I told you another way, positive to positive, negative to negative. Or design a DC/DC controller for it. 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...y-25994.html?t=25994&highlight=ultracapacitor 

In this thread, the energy is discussed. 

Regards,

major


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## rcavictim (Apr 26, 2009)

electro37 said:


> I get a Newsletter at irregular intervals with "snippets" of info about electrical and electronics, "inventions and innovations". Some of it useful the rest garbage. Tavrima was holding out on the Big 3 auto-makers and would not sell to the general public. Now; he has "opened his doors" to one and all. Siemens have developed a "hubmotor drive system" which can put a minimum of 65% more power to the ground than anyone else, and which includes adjustable shocks and tire pressure within it's capapbilities. Volvo are already testing the system. I suspect that Siemens had an idea that GM and the other two auto makers would fold and so they ensured their survival in the electric drive world.


If the best GM can do for electric propulsion in the short term is the overpriced, overweight, underperforming land yaught, The Volt, despite their leg-up from their EV1 program, they deserve to fold. Perhaps with training they could learn to fold laundry!


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