# Budget Conversion



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I have an ICE Camaro and enjoy driving and racing it (my goal is my electric Porsche takes over, though). It's a great idea to pick a car you love -- why put so much time and money into a car otherwise? The Camaro has a heavy motor and tranny, so you can drop around 1000 lbs out of the car. The aerodynamics are very good. SInce it is heavier than an economy car you'll need to spend more money.

Yes, the motor can be hooked straight up to the driveshaft, but with some caveats. You'll need a very powerful motor (or motors plural) to make that work. You should also put in a lower rear end gear ratio. If you aren't going to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on motor(s) and controller(s) you should probably keep the transmission so you can still climb hills and take off quickly (in 1st and 2nd at least).


wilkes5 said:


> It might be a waste of your time, but have to try. You can tell me i'm too lazy, and to look for the answers on the current site, becuase was really lazy and figured could have somebody just give it to me.
> 
> Want to convert a later model firebird/camaro. Know the car is heavy and probably won't make a very good EV, but really like the looks and really want an EV. It seems like AC motors are the way to go. Have read tesla's motor page and really wish knew lots about machining and engineering. Thinking about maybe signing up for some college classes about such. Want to keep things simple like motor, controller, batteries. Have no idea about matching the parameters.
> 
> ...


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Oh come on, why give him such a practical answer? I wanna see him put that monster in a Firebird. 

Sure dude, go for it...

Ok, actually, that is a really heavy motor and the rpms are too low.

But yes, there are jewels on Ebay in both motor and controller form. The benefits of a transmission may or may not outweigh whether you get a crazy deal on a monster motor. But generally they are a good idea and open up more motor options.

Good luck...


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Will:

No to the motor. Needs rewound and put on a diet to be of real use...+ too much $$$

You need about a 10-15 HP motor, THEN have it rewound to a lower voltage. You will really have something then....

You need a controller/inverter unit. Not two separate items. The Curtis 1238R is the only affordable game in town ATM.

OR a DC system to start with. 11" HV motor, 1000AMP controller and a Honkin big battery pack.

Either way, Direct drive or a transmission depends on what you want to do with it.

Pick your tire size first. Then from your motors Torque curve, select your rear gear ratio to get a decent top speed. 

Finally trans or not.....With DC or AC motors, if you want to actually do a lot of driving, use a transmission. If it is to blast around the block or drag race or just to show off with, do direct drive.

Lastly, batteries....AC or DC, no real battery need difference. You are accelerating a 3500# vehicle 0-60 . What does matter, no transmission means a shorter range or a larger battery pack required.

These are just some basic things to ponder. All of the above statements have some wiggle room and have other things required too. This gets you started.

Miz


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

Well yes you can go AC, and even industrial, but that motor is just too big. 

Consider my conversion, an extended van that weights almost 8000 lbs

I have a 30 HP Induction motor, Industrial type and it does just fine. I estimate even highway speeds. (I can actually do 45 MPH, trying for 60 MPH soon)

it's very unlikely that a 125 HP induction motor is needed

For industrial, you need high voltage batteries (or a rewind as stated above)

340 volts DC for an AC output for 240 volts 3 phase
and 680 DC for an AC output for 480 volts 3 phase

No transmission, well that may or may not mean shorter range. That depends. Transmissions take energy to run as well. If your motor makes enough peak torque for all situations, I hardly see the need for a transmission, or atleast shifting a transmission IE leave it in your ideal gear ratio


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

thanks very much for everyone's reply

was trying to simplify the process a bit. 

looks like it's not gonna be a easy as 1,2,3 (motor, controller, batteries)
and it be over with

would like to have performance, but drivability might be more practical, so
MIZ: definitly look into the 11" HV motor, 1000AMP controller and a Honkin big battery pack and keep the transmission, any major fabrication needed for the install besides mounting everything and wiring? (clutch plate/ect?) sorry trouble you so, hope for the best

yea ruckus: was hoping to get a powerful AC and directly to the drivtrain, and fly like a fighter jet plane. but now thinking about it, mabye you still need some gears. mabye 2nd+4th or 2nd+5th. but still, it would have been nice to just drop the motor in and hook everything up and go.

Dav: was going to try and keep it under 10K. mabye for 10k you could lease a a new Tesla model X all wheel drive

be good, god bless


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

sorry to pick on you subcool, you seem to have a setup more of what is the goal

have you had your motor rewound? if you wanted to go faster, why not go with higher hp motor and batteries to get above 45mph? where would you have the motor rewound at? can you diy rewound? if you don't have the motor rewound and are stuck with high voltage batteries, what price are you looking at for a 30 through 60 hp motor? probably twice as much for the 60 than the 30, right? back to your setup, so, just get a 30 hp indo motor, controller, and matching batteries and it's good to go? can it be done for under 10k? 

1,2,3 motor, batteries, controller


sorry to be rushing, it seems like really need to get a conversion, just feel it's the right thing to do, especially since the oil spill in the gulf, the kind of stuff just eats me up.* tell you guys a story of how a small seedling was growing out the right front fender of a family owned 97 or so Rav4. yea it was growning about the same spot as some of the hybrid emblems on new cars. think someone was trying to tell me somthing *


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Baby Steps. Your goal is good but unattainable with a 10K budget but you can do smaller for less. A bicycle, small car, lawn mower, but something. Anything is a right step and gets you familiar with converting something. I started with VW's and continue with them. I have a Boat but it is still on the burner. Not dead but for sure not up front. Getting another GE motor. 66 Bug is not selling so we will put in the Kostov for now while I send out my Roadster Pan for restoration. 

Pete


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

motor (plus rewind) $ 2000 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400298744846?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

controller $950 http://www.ebay.com/itm/130705066145?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

batteries kit $6362 http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_batteries_lpf_gbs_kit96.php

total = $9312 

Ms. math


If it only get's 20 miles, it would be worth it


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

thanks very much for everyone's input, learning much, although you guy's aren't getting paid very much. want what's right.


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

A little insight on my conversion.....


First the page for it, for all the refrence info

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...ed-chevrolet-express-van-converted-70662.html

And about it, prices and performance. 

Firstly, the motor controller I made/modified. It was a sensorless VFD which was about 10 HP, I replaced the IGBTs with larger ones. The store from which I got the IGBTs from, you could expect to pay about $30 for each one. The heatsink I got for $25 The capacitors were pretty cheap, I can't remember exactly how much but they were from the same surplus store, so pretty cheap ($2 each?) The motor (the 30 HP) I got from a different surplus store, it was $400. No shipping, I had drive to the place to pick it up. It's about 378 LBS. The batteries, again surplus. The pack was pretty cheap, lets say at the same store you'd pay about $700 for the 50 of them. 

The motor is stock, again 50 batteries all in series for 600 volts DC into my modified inverter. 

No transmission, I had a piece machined to match the driveshaft yoke, that was about $80 all in all


So overall it can be done cheaply if you want to search the surplus stores for electronic goodies. 

If you want simple and easy though, the best way probably is just regular DC 

Keep in mind though that industrial induction motors are huge, I figured with my van it wouldn't be a problem, and it's not. I can go faster than 45 (well I assume, it feels like it's got plenty to give), I just haven't taken off the limiter yet 

Best of luck with your conversion


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

wilkes5 said:


> motor (plus rewind) $ 2000 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400298744846?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> controller $950 http://www.ebay.com/itm/130705066145?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> ...


If you are thinking AC then a rewind of that motor might work with the right controller. If your thinking DC then the motor is not going to work. That motor is an AC motor and only an AC motor. 

The Controller listed is DC only. It will not work with AC and I have the same model selling for less and include a nice heat sink. It's new and tested. It however does not limit motor speed. 

The small GBS battery pack is eating up your budget pretty fast. But you could still do the job if you go with DC.

I'd look for a good used 13" GE DC Series motor. GE motors are excellent motors. 

You still need contractors, cabling, lugs, nuts and bolts, DC DC converter, volt meter, amp meter, amp counter, emergency cutoff, fuses, circuit breaker (optional), Adaptor plate, and maybe a few other odds n ends to put it together. It won't be easy at under 10K but you might consider if you want some good power buying some A123 Cells and build a 100AH pack with those and still get excellent power from a smaller pack. That way you won't have a slug when you open the electron gate to the motor. 

How much do we get paid? Plenty. 

Pete


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## sikbrik (Jun 10, 2008)

This is the best cheap/noob thread I've read in a while! Thanks to everyone who is contributing!


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-HP-US-MO...641?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3370eb24b1


This would be a nice one for use with a transmission. 

It's got the flange front/face and it's made from aluminum. 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baldor-30-H...622?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4602354a76

This could be good for going directly to the drive shaft. It could have 350 FTLBS torque with the right VFD/Controller.


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

Very sorry onegreen, know how frustrating it is to have to explain every little detail. but the jift of it was to find some good deals off ebay and have an awsome electric car. shhhhhh, keep it secret so everyone else doesn't beat me to the punch. 

still learning very much. have to keep refering to the thread to finalize the decisions on what parts to get.


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

You do know the one controller you linked to on ebay is a DC controller right? 

EDIT: onegreen beat me to it


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

nice deals subcool, do live in somewhat hilly place, so the transmission rout might be the way to go. however, have feelings for more HP motor even tho do not understand EV's very well. don't mean to chew up your suggestions and spit it back out. more hp wouldn't be bad if you ever got into a fight with a tesla, and sorry to keep refering to the company but it is a cool ride.


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

have a pretty good grasp type motor and what batteries are need for the motor "340 volts DC for an AC output for 240 volts 3 phase
and 680 DC for an AC output for 480 volts 3 phase". Controllers are a little sketchy. we need to add some more to the 1,2,3 like converter, volt meter, amp meter, amp counter, emergency cutoff, wiring + fuses.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7


Can any of the stuff added be picked up at a "Lowes" type department store? Can any of it possibly be made in usa?


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

No doubt more HP=good. 

But the 50 HP motor you posted is pretty big.
My van does hills pretty well with 30HP, better than with the 15 HP so again, more HP=good. but at the same time you'd be converting a much smaller car and the size and weight of the 50 HP motor might be restrictive. Then again if you can do it then by all means. The 30 HP 2 pole (3600 RPM) is likely 200-300 LBS, less than half the weight but not less than half the power

http://www.baldor.com/products/detail.asp?1=1&catalog=CEM4115T&product=AC+Motors&family=General+Purpose%7Cvw_ACMotors_GeneralPurpose&winding=12WGX278&rating=40CMB-CONT

Seems the one you posted is 645 LBS, thats still alot, but as I said, if you can then go for it


You might be able to get conduit and fittings at lowe's, not sure though, never bought any there. They should have wire, though it's probably not flexable like welding cable, it's more like whats used for wiring up outlets, lights, etc.... inside a home so it's not very flexable. Electrical tape and wire ties they should also have.


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## wilkes5 (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks again for everyone's help, hope your kindness is returned to you equally. Looks like some planning and mabye measuring before pulling the trigger.


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