# Batteries used by EVWest: where from ?



## prensel (Feb 21, 2010)

EVWest showed their Tesla upgraded BMW M3 using these batteries:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142700202089?rmvSB=true

Anyone knows where these packs originate from ?


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

I've been trying to figure that out today as well! good prices out there in interweb land.


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

Those batteries can be found in a Chrysler Pacific mini van hybrid. They are arranged with six in series for a 350vdc nominal voltage and about 45ahr. Each module is 16s for a 67.2vdc nominal voltage and made from LG Chem pouch cells wielded on opposite ends in a "Z" shape. They have one or two temperature sensors depending on the module. The module has two connectors for the BMS each that are 8s. The arrangement of pins for the BMS is even in one connector and odd in the other connector... for example one connector would have pouch 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15 plus the temperature sensors and the other connector would have pouch 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16. ...or something similar. I have seen three different pairs of plugs for the BMS connection. I have bought two batches from the "TechDirect" guy. the first I got for 17 cents a watt after shipping and the second (smaller) batch was about 23 cents a watt. I have a total of 24 modules for my solar system. I had to use a constant 75 watt soldering iron to get a non cold solder wield when adding wires to the pouches. The pouches wicked the heat faster than the smaller irons could make it. I wanted to use the original connectors but my batch came with some different connectors and my wiring harnesses did not fit all the batteries. so i had to make my own connections. Hope all this helps. 
Regards,
YS


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

i'm considering buying several modules from him as well, aside from the connector issues are the batteries performing well and consistently amongst them? I talked to him about picking them up in person so perhaps I can avoid the inconsistent connectors.


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## Nuts&Volts (Dec 20, 2011)

yewsuck said:


> Those batteries can be found in a Chrysler Pacific mini van hybrid. They are arranged with six in series for a 350vdc nominal voltage and about 45ahr. Each module is 16s for a 67.2vdc nominal voltage and made from LG Chem pouch cells wielded on opposite ends in a "Z" shape. They have one or two temperature sensors depending on the module. The module has two connectors for the BMS each that are 8s. The arrangement of pins for the BMS is even in one connector and odd in the other connector... for example one connector would have pouch 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15 plus the temperature sensors and the other connector would have pouch 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16. ...or something similar. I have seen three different pairs of plugs for the BMS connection. I have bought two batches from the "TechDirect" guy. the first I got for 17 cents a watt after shipping and the second (smaller) batch was about 23 cents a watt. I have a total of 24 modules for my solar system. I had to use a constant 75 watt soldering iron to get a non cold solder wield when adding wires to the pouches. The pouches wicked the heat faster than the smaller irons could make it. I wanted to use the original connectors but my batch came with some different connectors and my wiring harnesses did not fit all the batteries. so i had to make my own connections. Hope all this helps.
> Regards,
> YS


Can you confirm the weight and dimensions of the battery modules?


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

The batteries are made by LG Chem so they perform excelent, have the same charge discharge profile, and keep balance just like other LG Chem pouch cells much like those found in the Chevy Volt and Hyundai hybrids. 
I am away from home for the next few months so I can not give exact dimensions. I do know that they are little skinnier (about 1/2 inch) than "TechDirect " Ad and website state. The length (long side) is about correct and you will want to calculate a little more for clearance for the terminal connections. I can not say much about the weight except that they are heavy, but not 50lb feed sack heavy. 
I will read the photo posting guide and see if I can figure out the photo posting part of this website. I got some photos of my first shipment. 
Regards,
YS


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

In the reply window there is a button that looks like a paper clip, click that and a new window pops up and you select your photo file then click upload and it will post it will show up in your reply... took me a minute to figure out too! 

Thanks for the info! I’m likely to pick these up very soon.


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

For anyone looking at the post and do not want to click on the link in first post.... 

LG Chem Module 
-Number of Cells: 16
-Configuration: 16s
-Length: 14.5"
-Width: 9"
-Height: 6.5" (Approximate)
-Weight: 40lbs
-Output Terminal: M6 nut
-Amp Hour: 45Ah
-Total Voltage: 59.2vdc Nominal
-Chemistry: NMC
-Capacity: 2.5kWh
-Output: 10C
-Density: 138Wh/kg

Information stated from TechDirect.


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

Happy to help and give information. Here is the Pictures. Thank you for the post advice. I was trying to make an album and that was not working out. The pictures are in a small format. I can upload larger versions if you want them. 
You can see the how it shipped and the batteries with and without the battery covers covering the pouch ends that are welded. You can stack them up and down(14.5x9in) or you can stack them on their sides(9x14.5in). You can not stack them on the ends ( 6x9in) because of the welds, connectors, and terminals. I got six more modules stacked in my cabinet than what is shown in the picture. I also have a ratchet strap around them. I use mine batteries for a solar system and not in a car. So you would have to secure for the application. 
-YS


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

Thanks! That’s really helpful to see the connectors, is that a 24” wide shed they’re stacked inside?


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

One more picture showing two of the connectors that are different. Here is also the batteries as mounted in the original vehicle. The shed was the standard HomeDepot shed based on the dimensions listed by Tech Direct. I can not post a link to the exact shed because HomeDepot does not allow non North American IP address to access their web page. haha The problems with traveling for work...Sigh. hahah

Correction: Three different connectors. I got three different style batteries from my first batch they are all the same overall dimensions. One set of three has metal sides instead of honeycomb plastic. All my second and more recent batch of batteries that I ordered were all the same as the majority of the first batch. I might have just gotten some early sets.

2nd Edition... The majority of the batteries that I have gotten have green stickers that say 2016 and newer. You can see the green stickers in the original mounting picture. The odd batteries do not have a green sticker with date.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Can they be reconfigured? i.e. can I remove a couple of cells from the pack? 

I want to do around 100V, but 2 of these packs in series is too much. Removing a few cells off one pack would make it easier for me.


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

frodus said:


> Can they be reconfigured? i.e. can I remove a couple of cells from the pack?




No. The cells are wielded in a 16s configuration. It would be a major modification.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The construction looks very much like a Volt module, with the tabs of the pouch cells welded. The Volt modules have been modified, and the Pacifica modules probably could be, too, but it does look problematic.


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

And you’d still be carrying the weight of the disconnected cells around, I was thinking about that and I think i’d Just have to go to a bigger controller.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Jonbickford said:


> And you’d still be carrying the weight of the disconnected cells around, I was thinking about that and I think i’d Just have to go to a bigger controller.


When the Chevrolet Volt modules are modified, they can be reassembled with a different number of cells: the housing is a stacked set of frames, with each frame holding two cells (and different modules sizes just have different numbers of frames). The Pacifica module similarly appears to be a stack of frames (apparently also two per cell), so a lower-voltage set would ideally be a shorter stack... but I have no idea if they can be readily disassembled or re-joined.


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

Y'know... as cheap as these modules are available for, one module costs substantially less than the BMS system I would hook it up to! It seems like if they weren't wired for a bms already maybe they felt confident enough not to use one?

my current plan is to run 4 modules at a time hooked up 2p/2s in either 2 or 4 battery boxes that are easily removable to swap out and charge another set so I would be charging them either as 2 separate 59.2v 90ah packs or as 4 separate 59.2 45ah packs... so maybe I don't need a bms... that could save a LOT of money in a swappable battery scenario. they seemed to get away with it driving around in a minivan.

thoughts?


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

In post #11 you can see the two BMS boxes mounted on top of the OEM Battery Assy. One on the left set of three and one on the right set of three. Chrysler used A BMS and another box in the middle that is so far unknown. The white connectors on the batteries are for the BMS harness. There is a rubber potted area above the battery wields and around the white BMS connector that could have something as part of the BMS or fuses for the BMS. I have not pealed this rubber back to see what is there. 
.
These batteries could be modded like the Volt batteries. There are 8 plastic cases and each case holds two cells. These cases have a metal snap lock on each corner for securing to the next module in a press fit configuration. So you could cut one cell connection on each end of the battery. Then pry the cases apart. Remove the case with the two cells. Then take the two halves and press them together. Then weild, screw, or bolt the old tabs to make the new battery connection. The two batteries you removed would not have a tab on each end and would have limited future use. 
-YS


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

Is there a bms on the market that will handle the 8s?


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

I just soldered a Y harness and used a off the shelf normal 16s bms. The Y harness is made from two 8s JST-XH extensions. Pin 1 to cell 1 on the from of the battery. Pin 2 to cell 2 on the back of the battery. Pin 3 to cell 3 the front of the battery... and so forth. As per my pictures you have access to all the welds for the cells to make a harness for a BMS. you can also solder wires to the white BMS connector if you are really steady with your hand. I am not steady enough to not make sparks at 45amps on the connector. I just went directly to the cell welds. 
-YS​


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## SpeedRacer93 (Apr 22, 2018)

Are these packs water cooled like the Chevy Volt packs? Can't find any info to confirm.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

SpeedRacer93 said:


> Are these packs water cooled like the Chevy Volt packs? Can't find any info to confirm.


I wondered the same thing.

In the provided photos of the modules, there do not appear to be any coolant fittings; however, the photo of the pack with lid removed in post #11 includes what appear to be black tubing to each side, combined with silver-colour tee fittings into connections coming out the near side wall of the pack (left of the high-voltage electrical connector). Since the internal connections appear to be to a metal base under the modules, the pack likely has a "cold plate" cooling system.








The Volt system passes coolant through plates sandwiched between cells, but this appears to run the coolant only through a structure under the assembled modules (like a Chevrolet Bolt).

A quick web search yielded a document including this statement:


> The Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) Battery Coolant Loop obtains heat from a heat exchanger in the High Temperature Coolant Loop and gives up heat through a heat exchanger (chiller) in the HVAC refrigerant system.


... so it is actively heated and cooled using liquid coolant. There's lots of technical detail in that document of the operating modes.

From the same search, this discussion might be of interest to those wanting to know more about the Pacifica's battery (although I have only read the first page):
_2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums > 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica PHEV Hybrid Forums > 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica PHEV Hybrid General Discussion > Hybrid Battery Technical Details_


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

brian_ said:


> I wondered the same thing.
> 
> In the provided photos, there do not appear to be any coolant fittings; however, the photo of the pack with lid removed in post #11 includes what appear to be black tubing to each side, combined with silver-colour tee fittings into connections coming out the near side wall of the pack (left of the high-voltage electrical connector). Since the internal connections appear to be to a metal base under the modules, the pack likely has a "cold plate" cooling system.
> 
> ...



The modules available for purchase do not have water cooling. A complete battery pack from the vehicle would have a cooling system. The bare modules do not have cooling line ports. The four corners of a battery are where the plastic cell cases connect to each other. I am under the understanding that the battery modules must get cooling from the bottom side. The bottom of the modules is metal and would conduct heat very well. I am guessing the cooling system must be a coolant plate that the modules sit on. 
-YS


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

yewsuck said:


> The bottom of the modules is metal and would conduct heat very well.


Thanks for that detail.

The bottom (which isn't shown in any of the photos which I saw) is one long edge of the cells, which is where it would be reasonable to expect metallic plates or foils between the cells to protrude and bear against a metal housing plate for thermal conductivity.

Ensuring thermal conduction between that metallic bottom of the module and the cold (well, really "thermal management" as it provides heat when required) plate is presumably much of the reason for the design of the structure which surrounds each modules and clamps it down. This structure isn't needed to hold the cells of the module together.


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## Tom (Mar 26, 2008)

We have about 100 of these packs that are available. We are not sure of the disposition of them other than they are at about 52v.
I have installed them in two Solectrias and have charged them manually.
Suspect they are from the same source as the Ebay folks, but do not know the source. We have been selling them for $350.
I believe they are cooled by contact with a liquid cooling system that was in contact with the bare edges of the cells which are exposed on two sides.


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm gonna head down to ev west this afternoon to pick up a hyper9, I'll try to, peek around and see how they're installing them.


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## Jonbickford (Feb 27, 2018)

here's a couple of pics I snapped at ev west today. 

they had one of the modules modified with 2 sets of pouches gone, It looked like the packs of cells are held together with some clips on the ends in the second picture. third pic is the inside of a hyper 9 just because who doesn't want to see that?


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Folks, any idea on the individual cell ratings in this pack in terms of max discharge current ? Those TechDirect guys state "Output 10C", I assume they mean 450A, but is that reliable ?


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## yewsuck (Dec 1, 2014)

They are LG Chem batteries. They will perform like other LG Chem Electric car batteries such as the Chevy Volt battery or the Hyundai/Kia battery in the Sonata Hybrids. Look at the specs for Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid to see how the cells perform. They are made for electric car duty.​


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

yewsuck said:


> They are LG Chem batteries. They will perform like other LG Chem Electric car batteries such as the Chevy Volt battery or the Hyundai/Kia battery in the Sonata Hybrids. Look at the specs for Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid to see how the cells perform. They are made for electric car duty.​


Perhaps you could help me out - I have seen Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid being mentioned here, but I didn't see any references to specs. Besides, most of the spec sheets I have seen for EVs don't go into the specifics of the cells beyond count, pack layout, chemistry (and cell voltage).

I have seen some docs (from testing labs) where manufacturer's intention to draw X many kW's has been stated, thus sort of being able to determine some safe discharge currents, but again, that didn't speak of actual maximums for continuous and peak discharges on individual cells. 

So again, not trying to be difficult, just asking for some assistance


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## x.l.r.8 (Oct 20, 2018)

Well, we know the chemistry, we also know that you just need the capacity mAh.g-1. The lg chemistry at present or should I say from 2015 is NMC622, the next chemistry that is to be released is NMC811 but that’s probably going to make its way into the 2020 Roadster, Semi and Kia’s. And that’s going to be a cylindrical cell Not a pouch. So I’ll assume the chemistry is the only one they make for automotive use, the big difference is cell density. The bolt and I-pace use something like 810g cells where the Volt is 383g 52Ah cells. The 16s module is 40lbs, with 42ah cells would put the cells around 650g. 
https://www.targray.com/li-ion-battery/cathode-materials/nmc
Unlike the many many flavors the 18650 comes in I think they have pretty much maximized the density now and are playing with shape/size, cathode/anode properties to get maximum flow or minimum resistance.


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## Scotty2u (Jan 1, 2021)

Tom said:


> We have about 100 of these packs that are available. We are not sure of the disposition of them other than they are at about 52v.
> I have installed them in two Solectrias and have charged them manually.
> Suspect they are from the same source as the Ebay folks, but do not know the source. We have been selling them for $350.
> I believe they are cooled by contact with a liquid cooling system that was in contact with the bare edges of the cells which are exposed on two sides.


ibought some but need 1 more price has gone up anybody have o e? Thx


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## Scotty2u (Jan 1, 2021)

One


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