# Getting your build Street Legal in the EU



## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

That's what I'm trying to do since a few months. In Holland it's going to cost me over 15.000 euro only to get the EMC certificates. And there is more after that. But that 15.000 euro is already to much for me.

People say in other EU countries the EMC issue is less imporant, but nobody an tell me which countries that are. Who knows in wich EU country getting your build street legal is still possible for a reasonable amount of money?


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## m.kozlowski (Jan 13, 2016)

In Poland that was quite easy till about year ago, right now - forget it, this is so complex and expensive as you wirite is in Holland... I would try Germany or Czech Republic... so i've heard.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Germany is also lost to the dark side of the EU (over)regulations. That's what I'm told. If anyone knows otherwise, I would like to know.

I'll try to find more about the Czech republic


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## Lucas van Lierop (Apr 28, 2017)

Hi Jan,

I'm from the Netherlands too, just joined this community.

Have you already bought a motor/controller?

If not: there's a Dutch company which sells motor/controller combinations with a certificate. I'm planning to use a set for my conversion project for exactly this reason.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Yeah, my project is finished. Everything works fine, just a minor bug here and there.
My components are also certified by someone else. But that someone else wants to solve his money problems over my back. Also something I'm not willing to do.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Jan said:


> My components are also certified by someone else. But that someone else wants to solve his money problems over my back. Also something I'm not willing to do.


Talk to the folks at New Electric who may have some ideas to share... I would have thought it was illegal to sell you the EV component parts in The NL without the documents to prove they are CE marked... maybe you could try talking to your enforcement authorities and use that to 'persuade' the vendor to help you?

afaik the UK is not currently enforcing EMC compliance for the EV drivetrain when used for low volume conversions... maybe you could investigate the possibility of registering your car in the UK? Indra might provide some consultancy to help you with that?


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

You can do it in Croatia, it costs around 200€ if everything is ok first time. For moped it's around 60€.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Kevin. I'll give Indra a try.

Riba, could you please give me a website for more information?


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

I'll be damned! I tought the Azure Dynamics went bankrupt before a car was sold in Europe. I was wrong:

https://www.autotrack.nl/tweedehands/ford/transit-connect/35250176

There's even a nice picture of the DMOC645. And it has a type registration number!

So this rule should be applied to us, hobbyists in the Netherlands:

"bij een niet-seriematig vervaardigd voertuig wordt aangetoond dat de toegepaste elektronische componenten (ESA’s) voldoen aan het gestelde in bijlage VII tot en met X van de in de Richtlijn gestelde eisen, danwel ** deze componenten eerder in een ander reeds goedgekeurd voertuigtype is toegepast. **"

It says that if the used components are from a type registrered car, than EMC certificates are not needed.

I'll have to wait another 2 weeks for an answer of the RDW.


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

Jan said:


> Thanks Kevin. I'll give Indra a try.
> 
> Riba, could you please give me a website for more information?



Here is the webpage:

https://www.cvh.hr/company-profile

https://www.cvh.hr/ispitivanje/


But don't worry, there isn't any info about homologating EV's  
You would need to call them and hope that someone can speak good English.

Actually you don't do full homologation, just "atest", basically the same thing you would do if you were replacing engines eg. from gasoline to diesel engines. With some extra rules of course, of which I have assembled a list, or let's say an unofficial atest guide  It's on Croatian, but if you decide to do it I can translate it.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Riba,

As you can read, I found a last straw. If it fails again I'll be back.


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

I wish you good luck and to beat a system


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

riba2233 said:


> You can do it in Croatia, it costs around 200€ if everything is ok first time. For moped it's around 60€.


But car needs to be on Croatia licence plate first...


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

My Tomos was never on CRO plates, only YU 

For atest they only needed old YU "pink slip" (prometna) and purchase contract.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Still trying to beat the system.

The first response of the Dutch RDW on my last straw was: 

"Good for you, you found a valid certificationnumber that might include your components. But we do not keep track of what a certification contains. That's up to the producer/factory. It can even change in time and that's all up to the manufacturer. So, as long you can not provide the content of the certification, you've got nothing."

Yes, I was just as surprised. The RDW certifies, but as soon you are certified you can do whatever you like. Strange.

So, I went to the garage where the Azure Dynamics Ford Transit that was for sale is located, and took pictures of the labels on the motor and inverter. As I expected they where the same as I have.

And in response of those pictures I have been assigned to a real person. A keurmeester called in Dutch. Literally translated an Inspectormaster.

It looks like I have taken a barrier. But I'm not sure yet.

Patience...


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## Pork n Cheese (Oct 27, 2017)

Hi Jan,
just joined here and I am expecting the same or worse red tape for my proposed build in Portugal.............seems the EU have their own rules but each individual member state can decide how they interpret them, the Uk for example seems to be straight forward, check out EV Classics who are doing this right now in Wales, all road legal.
I am still trying to figure out where I start in Portugal, links within the IMT the transport ministry do not work and take me to an unregistered domain, forums there have guys saying they have done it and are 100% legal but do not say how they did it, others say there is ONLY one engineer within the ministry technical inspections dept that deals with this and only have telephone contact which he hardy ever answers..............so lets see, I will be trying and sending in updates, will probably put them on here as your thread is specific to Europe, best of luck to us all


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi Pork,

You know that importing a road legal car from one eu country to the other should be a formality? That's also a eu regulation.

But countries add sometimes some rules themselves. In my case the Dutch RDW has the right to do additional inspections on an imported vehicle if it's older than 25 years. It is not clear what that really means. And mine is even older than 40 years...

Good luck.


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## Pork n Cheese (Oct 27, 2017)

Hi Jan, I was not referring to import rules, but specifically to your post on getting an EV conversion registered and legal, imports are a completely different subject and Portugal is already guilty of breaking EU rules on even newish cars being imported as they tax them at different rates to national cars, which is totally against the EU rules of free movement of goods and people, they have been fined but do not change their stance, guess it is cheaper to pay the fine than lose the monopoly they have on car sales, even second hand.
The question remains, did you manage to legalise your EV conversion in Holland, last post was they said you had an inspector allocated to your case.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Not yet.

Patience...


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## Pork n Cheese (Oct 27, 2017)

Patience I will need in bucket loads to try this in Portugal, best of luck with yours.


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

I tried to contact new electric several times on their emc certifeid motor/controller package but still waiting for a reply.
I guess the easiest way is to buy a car that is already hybrid/electric and use that as a platform to work with.


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## Pork n Cheese (Oct 27, 2017)

Don't want any of the existing bubbles that are on the market right now, I want to do my old VW, that is pure recycling, keeping an old car running without the exhaust fumes, it's win win, but the more I delve into it the less likely it looks to be possible in Portugal, way too much red tape and obstacles put in your way, some that so far will be impossible to comply with, did get a quote from EV Classics in Wales for a package that includes everything except the batteries, as I requested......but on hold for now until I get concrete answers from the burocrats in Portugal


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

i would prefer to convert my old datsun, but if i have to pay almost 15.000 euros for test en certification that would not be a very economical thing to do.


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## Ams_AK (Jan 24, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Talk to the folks at New Electric who may have some ideas to share... I would have thought it was illegal to sell you the EV component parts in The NL without the documents to prove they are CE marked... maybe you could try talking to your enforcement authorities and use that to 'persuade' the vendor to help you?


Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the mention.
Yes all, New Electric does indeed sell drivetrains with EMC certificate. We went through the rather expensive and painfull  procedure at TUV rheinland and currently hold UN R10-4 certification for the Siemens/DMOC and Curtis/HPEVS combos.

We are not the vendor that sold Jan his Siemens/DMOC setup. Jan's DMOC was not even properly flashed when he got it, and as such rather useless. We did however have Jan over to our shop and flashed his DMOC for him...twice. The first time failed as his board was burned and the replacement he bought somewhere did not take.. the second time IIRC he brought another DMOC and it flashed without a hitch. 
Both visits and the flashing and other advice given were all offered free-of-charge.



Jan said:


> My components are also certified by someone else. But that someone else wants to solve his money problems over my back. Also something I'm not willing to do.


As no-one else that is not currently bankrupt holds EMC certificates on this setup, I'm prone to think 'that someone' is me.
Sorry you feel that way man. And does not quite reflect the conversation I think we had. As I remember, I explained it would be against our basic instinct not to give a certificate on components we did not sell.. but that I would consider if we could first review your complete build and all the components used.
I also offered to sell you a battery pack with BMS and said that buying that from us would get us on track for assisting you get road legal.

As you mentioned, the certificate is the first part of a process. We supply it on parts we sell, but also only for builds that we do ourselves or that we oversee and pre-approve before sending on to the RDW.
Our relationship with the authorities has been slowly built, and can be quickly lost.



Jan said:


> So this rule should be applied to us, hobbyists in the Netherlands:
> 
> "bij een niet-seriematig vervaardigd voertuig wordt aangetoond dat de toegepaste elektronische componenten (ESA’s) voldoen aan het gestelde in bijlage VII tot en met X van de in de Richtlijn gestelde eisen, danwel ** deze componenten eerder in een ander reeds goedgekeurd voertuigtype is toegepast. **"
> 
> It says that if the used components are from a type registrered car, than EMC certificates are not needed.


Hope this track will work out for you. Would open up a real bonanza of EV drive trains to work work with for all of us. To us the rule was always explained as such that we would still need the permission of the original certificate owner to use the parts in another car. 
If this does get you through the first boss-fight, make sure you are ready to face the beast that is R100-01 inspection in Lelystad 



Eric said:


> I tried to contact new electric several times on their emc certifeid motor/controller package but still waiting for a reply.


Sorry to have left you hanging Eric.. I have been rather overwhelmed with requests the last few months.. could you resend your email, or better yet: send a text/whatsapp message to the 06 number on our site? Thanks!


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

And after more than a year of corresponding with the RDW, I finaly visited Lelystad last week, and I am street legal. Yeah.


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## oudevolvo (Mar 10, 2015)

Congratulations!


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## Lucas van Lierop (Apr 28, 2017)

Congrats, nice to have another DIY EV on the road


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Sometimes I feel like I wish I was in Europe.

Other times I like that I'm not.

Today is the latter.

Congrats, it's good to persevere in face of bullshit after most people would have quit.


One little note on a tangent, you are using the idiom of "the last straw" wrong, at least for English (at least, as I've ever heard it used). Idioms are so hard to translate in context, I'll try to explain:

In English, "the last straw" refers to the last item that made you quit and broke you, even if the last item is a very small thing you could handle on its own. The full phrase is "The straw that broke the camel's back", meaning you load something up and up and up with more and more and more things, and then one tiny more piece of straw is too much and breaks everything. I'm not sure how that became an English idiom, not many camels in English places.

It is always a negative thing, and it always means you quit (or changed your decision).

For example, your old car needs a new engine, and a new transmission, and then a new alternator, and then new tires, and then a headlight burns out and you just quit and take it to the junkyard. It's not the headlight that made you give up, but it was "the last straw".

Or, your husband is abusive, and he's an alcoholic, and he gambles away all your money, and then one day he leaves his socks on the kitchen table so you file for divorce. The socks are a small thing, not a big deal, but, you were already carrying so much that you couldn't take anything worse and they were "the last straw."

The way you're using it, I think is perhaps closer to the idiom "the last resort". When you have tried many things and are down to just one last option, that is "the last resort". Usually it's used in the context of having tried what looked like the better options, and now there's this one thing left that probably won't work either or you would've done it first, but, you're going to try it and if it doesn't work there's nothing after. It's your "last resort."

I've tried learning languages and I know sometimes I've mis-used things for years because no one took the time to tell me, so, now when I see the same thing I try to let people know.


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