# Need motor recommendation for abnormal requirements EV



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

Read the following site, there are two pages. The second page he replaces the first motor with a different brand.

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/shumaker/default.htm


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## john818 (Aug 1, 2008)

Sounds awesome and very similar to what i'm considering for my first build. I'm thinking tadpole, but maybe with a little higher top speed and much more weight and probably not low drag. What your talking about sounds kinda like a BugE. One problem I see with your specs is that a BugE with lead acid batteries is about 400# (I think). To get down to your weight requirements, you might have to go with something more exotic and expensive (LiFePo4?).

Anyway, to answer your question, you might look into motors people use for motorcycle conversions. Your target weight is about the same as lighter bikes. I think my ICE Ninja 250 is about 300# dry. There's a good variety of motorcycle sized motors available from Electric Motorsport, including Perm, SepEx, and AC. Their home page is http://www.electricmotorsport.com/. You can find the motors in the EV Parts section. I haven't had any contact with them, but I've heard good things from people who have.

Good luck!


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks guys, both good suggestions. Guess I'll try outrunner motors first like in 1clue's post, and if the various rpm range problems with them prove to be too much of a problem I'll go with the motorcycle electric motors like in John's. It'd be great to be able to use a hobby outrunner because of the cost and size / weight.

Much appreciated.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm confused... are you talking about an ultralight trike? If so, you're limited to 254 lbs by the FAA.

Or are you talking about a trike motorcycle that will be "ultra light"? 

http://www.electraflyer.com/


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

LOL, hopefully it will stay on the ground. Although my lack of calculating down / up force for the thing might come back to haunt me.

I'm having trouble finding the power band graphs for these outrunner motors.


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## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

From what I gather so far, he's talking about a motorized bicycle/inverted trike. Which, where I am, is limited to 2 hp but that's not true everywhere.


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

This would fall under motorcycle rules and requirements to be street legal, and it will. That 2 hp rule (1 hp in most places) is with regards to keeping it classified as a bicycle. To ride this you would need your motorcycle license. 

Doesn't look anything like those pedaled tadpoles, it looks more like a scooter.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Interesting. 

Ok, I figured you were talking about a motorcycle, but the combination of "ultralight", "trike" and "250-350 lbs" had my head swimming with visions of another electric ultralight aircraft... something I'm very interested in.


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## todayican (Jul 31, 2008)

I was looking at those rc motors, saw this: 

http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/UK/Motoren/aussen/Predator37/Luftschrauben.htm

That sure does look like a lot of motor! anyone have any idea the longevity one might experience in a 500 to 600 fully faired three wheeler?


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## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

todayican said:


> I was looking at those rc motors, saw this:
> 
> http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/UK/Motoren/aussen/Predator37/Luftschrauben.htm
> 
> That sure does look like a lot of motor! anyone have any idea the longevity one might experience in a 500 to 600 fully faired three wheeler?




There might be some direct experience with that motor over on rcgroups.com. There are maybe a dozen of us EV guys over there who actually post questions. I hang out only in the electric motor design and construction area, since that's what I'm directly interested in. There are a few very knowledgeable people there.

You might also try to contact the guy in the bicycle link I sent, since he used one. I gathered from the article that Plettenberg is a top notch company, but that's my interpretation of somebody else's opinion, not based on anything really tangible.


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

I wonder if a CVT, set for manually switching between 2 speed settings, would be useful. Anyone know of any inexpensive cvt kits?


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## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

The problem with a CVT is they usually are around 70% efficient so you'll lose a lot of power.

The guy I referenced with the bike had planned on having his bike go 50 mph with a single speed reduction. I don't know if it translates that you could go 70 the same way, but it's worth looking at it.


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## Wiredsim (Jul 4, 2008)

You can find a LOT of info about using RC motors at endless-sphere or some of the battlebot sites. The killer app right now is finding a way to use those high RPM motors without re-winding. There seems to be some merit to using the Dewalt transmissions. Anyway, read up:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4625

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/shumaker/default.htm

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/whatsup.htm

Good luck!


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

what about an Etek or Perm 132 pancake motor? those are commonplace on EV motorcycles and electrathon cars (which are typically trikes) 

voltage rating is up to 72V and they can put out 5-10 HP continuous and are very efficient and due to their intended use being a full size vehicle their durability might be better than an RC motor.

(though those RC motors are impressive: I've got a little 1/10 scale car and the darn thing will do almost 50mph with a tiny little motor controller and a brushless motor about the size of a D-cell)


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

For a different approach what about using one bicycle motor/drive on each wheel. With one throttle switch feeding instructions to all the controllers. Three battery packs etc.

Zak


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## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> For a different approach what about using one bicycle motor/drive on each wheel. With one throttle switch feeding instructions to all the controllers. Three battery packs etc.
> 
> Zak




I've been obsessing about this exact thing. A bicycle with two wheel drive!


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## todayican (Jul 31, 2008)

Damn you WiredSim! 

Ive been reading and reading that mega post on the outrunner motors. as nearly as I can tell, its just not possible to build one into an "ultralight" highway capable 3 wheeler, but it sure would be cool!

p.s. maybe Thank you would be better


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

Sure you can, just have a high ratio. 

120 Kv motor, 48 volts: 5760 RPM. 5760 * .8 = 4608 ideal cruising RPM

2400 RPM needed for 60 mph. 5760 / 2400 = 2.4 times reduction.


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