# Dyson to build Electric Car



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Dyson (the vacuum company) plans to leverage it's new solid state battery technology (reported previously in this forum) to build an EV. This comes as the British government teams with them to build a new mega-battery factory to rival Elon Musk's Gigafactory.

A battery as heavy as the Model S battery could provide a range of 480 miles, they claim.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Im surprised there is no offer of a free set of steak knives with each car !
A good way to score a slug of Govmnt funds i guess.
Dyson= modern day Amstrad (if you remember them ?)


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Karter2 said:


> Im surprised there is no offer of a free set of steak knives with each car !
> A good way to score a slug of Govmnt funds i guess.
> Dyson= modern day Amstrad (if you remember them ?)


I remember them, but I certainly don't see any resemblance to the companies. Dyson is already successful in its own right. They've acquired rights to a new technology (the solid state batteries) and are simply trying to figure out how to maximize their return.

Even if they are ultimately unsuccessful as car builders (and considering what electrical nightmares old English cars used to be, it is entirely possible), nothing is truly lost. The battery factory will still remain selling better batteries for less.

Point as always when I post in the news section is that batteries continue to improve, and some of the new technologies we talk about one year do eventually make it to market another.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Dyson are like Apple,

They buy/develop technologies and use superior marketing to do what was thought to be impossible

They really seem to understand that an idea is NOT worth much
BUT 
An idea + a manufacturing operation + a marketing system can be worth a LOT

From the article they are looking at spending 173 Million pounds 
That is at least an order of magnitude below the numbers that Tesla are spending - probably two orders


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Dyson are like Apple.

They take an idea, and use marketing to sell it for at least twice what it's worth, to people who are "brand sensitive", i.e. suckers.

I wish them well with their solid state battery technology though. Seems logical that they would buy it to use in their cordless vacuums. If it's the breakthrough they say it is, and that's a big if, it will find its way into all sorts of products, including EVs- but I doubt Dyson will be building the EVs.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Duncan said:


> From the article they are looking at spending 173 Million pounds
> That is at least an order of magnitude below the numbers that Tesla are spending - probably two orders


Correct, but recall that the Musk Gigafactory is implementing a 40-year old battery building process. The new process for the Sakti3 batteries is more like building memory chips, so initial capital costs are less.

I believe that model (lower startup costs) is what will ultimately allow battery production at low costs to finally become truly scalable. 24M has taken a similar approach by re-designing the base battery to accommodate simpler manufacturing techniques / less capital startup costs. By using may smaller factories, production can easily scale up and down.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Who knows if Dyson can make a decent car.

But if their batteries work as advertised, it would be a pretty significant step forward.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Sometimes failure is the only path forward.

Even if they never get past a demonstrator car, if it has a 480 mile range and could sell for $30,000 if made by another manufacturer, it is a win.


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## evBEDNER (Sep 14, 2014)

the Dyson electric car better have a vacuum in it for sucking up all the crap that my kids throw on the floor and seats. Thats all I have to say.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

That would suck?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

PhantomPholly said:


> Correct, but recall that the Musk Gigafactory is implementing a 40-year old battery building process. The new process for the Sakti3 batteries is more like building memory chips, so initial capital costs are less.
> 
> I believe that model (lower startup costs) is what will ultimately allow battery production at low costs to finally become truly scalable. 24M has taken a similar approach by re-designing the base battery to accommodate simpler manufacturing techniques / less capital startup costs. By using may smaller factories, production can easily scale up and down.


A quick Google shows the cost of a memory chip factory to be in the tens of Billions

Which is exactly what you would expect if you compared the processes involved to the much simpler ones to make a battery

If you want to take advantage of the benefits of scale then you need the scale!


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Duncan said:


> A quick Google shows the cost of a memory chip factory to be in the tens of Billions
> 
> Which is exactly what you would expect if you compared the processes involved to the much simpler ones to make a battery
> 
> If you want to take advantage of the benefits of scale then you need the scale!


Well, if you read the articles on Sakti3 they say it is LIKE building chips. That doesn't mean it is as complicated or that it requires a billion dollar building. Obviously they think they can go into production for about $100 million, chump change in business these days.

And, if you can build one plant for $100 million, you can double productivity for another $100 million. That is far more scalable than multi-billion dollar plants.


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## ken will (Dec 19, 2009)

_"The Guardian’s report  cited a statement made by the British government on its website, which read: “The government is funding Dyson to *develop* a new battery electric vehicle at their headquarters in Malmesbury, Wiltshire. This will secure £174m of investment in the area, creating over 500 jobs, mostly in engineering.”_

It doesn't say *Manufacture* Vehicles, it says *develop* a vehicle.

_Dyson, which was founded by inventor and entrepreneur Sir James Dyson, has said it plans to invest £1 billion (about $1.4 billion) into battery technology over the next five years. Dyson reportedly plans to build a large battery factory that could churn out Sakti3 batteries.

_Dyson will build a *Battery factory* not a *car factory*_._


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Ken

That sounds about right - develop a battery factory - that's a big job but Dyson should be able to handle it

Develop and manufacture a car - that is about 100 times the job


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

Dyson to build an electric car....That'll suck for sure


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## Marinette (Aug 29, 2010)

I use one of their V6 car and boat vacuums to sweep out my ev. It is the best car vac I have ever seem, almost amazing at times. I'm not sure how much of that will translate into making cars but it does tell me they do try to do things better than the competition and their design are innovative so I will not count them out.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

The range will be terrible on the Dyson car.


The batteries will be fine but you'll have to stop every 20miles to empty the boot/trunk of all the dirt it sucks off the road as you drive.

That makes me think. Has anyone tried installing a retractable power cord on their electric car (like the ones from most vacuums)?


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## Marinette (Aug 29, 2010)

The retractors for the bigger cords and pretty big and heavy. Seen them in motorhomes.


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