# Sugar Battery Packs More Energy Than Lithium



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

It would be really nice if these articles used the same units of measure. Amp hours per kilogram is not the same as watt hours per kilogram, so the only real clue we have (not knowing voltage) is that they claim 10x density of LiIon. Which LiIon chemistry?

Still, it is promising and avoids the problems of cross-country travel (and would make gas stations happy to continue their existence, just selling sugar water instead of gasoline).


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

From the chart in the article the density seems similar to LiMnO2, which is not as good as LiNiCoAlO2 which Tesla is already using. And where will all this sugar come from?


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> From the chart in the article the density seems similar to LiMnO2, which is not as good as LiNiCoAlO2 which Tesla is already using.


Be careful in that comparison - I don't think that "Amp Hours / Kg" = "Watt Hours / Kg." I would instead take them at their word that they are 10x better, but bracket that with a range of WHrs/Kg encompassing the range of LiIon.



> And where will all this sugar come from?


Good question, but glucose is certainly simpler to manufacture than cane sugar.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I was just doing a visual comparison using the chart they provided which showed the relationship of energy densities. Whatever units used to represent gravimetric density they showed comparable densities. If they aren't better than what is already in use then it's not really an improvement. You don't compare new technology with outdated technology, that's the first warning sign that you don't have anything spectacular.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I was just doing a visual comparison using the chart they provided which showed the relationship of energy densities. Whatever units used to represent gravimetric density they showed comparable densities. If they aren't better than what is already in use then it's not really an improvement. You don't compare new technology with outdated technology, that's the first warning sign that you don't have anything spectacular.


I could be reading this wrong, but I'm looking at the next to last column "100% glucose" in an electronic fuel cell. That column shows approximately 10x the energy density of LiIon in the same chart (it appears to be a logarithmic scale).

Of course, the chart means nothing until they demonstrate an actual product.

Edit: Also note that this is an air-breathing battery. LiIon can also get 5-10 times the energy density when air breathing; however they never seem to get many cycles out of that type of battery.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The caption of the graph says


> Energy densities of various battery types. “15% Maltodextrin”, in dark blue, is the battery being discussed here.


 So I was looking at the column for 15% Maltodextrin.


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