# [EVDL] power steering



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

First thing you should do, is research the minimum PSI rating of a standard 
power steering unit, to see what type of pump will work. Go to a dealer or 
a auto parts store and look at a the pump specifications for a steering 
systems.

I found that my GM vehicle requires about 750 psi power steering oil 
pressure to make it work. You will then need power steering hoses and 
fittings that will take this pressure.

Electric power steering pumps have a pressure relief value that by passes 
the fluid and is design to be fill under pressure at the low pressure side 
inlet.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: [EVDL] power steering


>
>
> Can this pump be used as a power steering pump if steering fluid is used 
> instead of
> methanol?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Snow-Performance-Methanol-220-PSI-Pump-40220_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem180169173899QQitemZ180169173899
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ysanlu
> Thanks
> JJ
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Roland, that wasnt my doubt. The psi in various power steering modules range
from 750 to 1500 or so. This pump is only 230 psi and is meant for methanol, but is
inexpensive. I also dont want a very strong steering assist, only a small one and
hence 230 psi may do. However I dont know if this pump will take hydraulic fluid.
JJ

> On Thu, October 18, 2007 10:40 pm


> EDT, Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> >
> > First thing you should do, is research the minimum PSI rating of a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't the rack and pinion systems typically use considerably less pressure? 
250psi comes to mind, as opposed to the 1000 ball park of the GM Saginaw 
setup. I think my Ford Tempo uses a smaller pump with a remote reservoir 
that may be fairly easy to run with an electric motor. Whether it would 
have enough boost depends a lot on what type of steering gearbox you've got 
I would think.

Marty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] power steering


>
>
> Thanks Roland, that wasnt my doubt. The psi in various power steering 
> modules range
> from 750 to 1500 or so. This pump is only 230 psi and is meant for 
> methanol, but is
> inexpensive. I also dont want a very strong steering assist, only a small 
> one and
> hence 230 psi may do. However I dont know if this pump will take hydraulic 
> fluid.
> JJ
>
>> On Thu, October 18, 2007 10:40 pm


> > EDT, Roland Wiench wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> First thing you should do, is research the minimum PSI rating of a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] Power Steering*

I'm just starting converting a 2001 Audi A4 Quattro to electric. I 
pulled the old ICE out yesterday and I plan on keeping the AC and the 
power steering functioning. The power steering pump puts out 
1650-1800 psi per the service manual at dead-head (no-flow). I have 
read that some people have used Toyota 12V power steering pumps in 
their EVs. I also read that the power consumption is quite high, so I 
have two questions for you all:

1. Does anyone have any experience with using an aftermarket off the 
shelf hydraulic pump. I see some that are made for lift gates, and 
others that are for power steering and trim in marine applications. 
The marine type are about $500+ new, but used ones pop up on Ebay all 
the time. They look perfect for the application and come in a compact 
one piece assembly. The lift gate type may not be continuous duty. 
Anyone have experience with either of the above?

2. To conserve energy I would like to have the power steering cut off 
once I get up to speed. Ideally the transition should be smooth so 
there is not a sudden noticeable change in control. Anyone have any 
ideas on this?


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power Steering*

Hello Roger,

I have a unit that I got from Randy at Canev . http://www.canev.com/ Randy 
is a great guy and a pleasure to work with. It was a bit pricey but a 
really nice unit. I would buy one again. I have a round rocker switch 
mounted in the shift knob, just flick it on and off as needed.

I'm sure with the expert folks on the list they can lead you to some sort of 
pressure activated sw if your inclinedd to go that way. But this set up 
works just fine for me.

Jim


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Power Steering


> I'm just starting converting a 2001 Audi A4 Quattro to electric. I
> pulled the old ICE out yesterday and I plan on keeping the AC and the
> power steering functioning. The power steering pump puts out
> 1650-1800 psi per the service manual at dead-head (no-flow). I have
> read that some people have used Toyota 12V power steering pumps in
> their EVs. I also read that the power consumption is quite high, so I
> have two questions for you all:
>
> 1. Does anyone have any experience with using an aftermarket off the
> shelf hydraulic pump. I see some that are made for lift gates, and
> others that are for power steering and trim in marine applications.
> The marine type are about $500+ new, but used ones pop up on Ebay all
> the time. They look perfect for the application and come in a compact
> one piece assembly. The lift gate type may not be continuous duty.
> Anyone have experience with either of the above?
>
> 2. To conserve energy I would like to have the power steering cut off
> once I get up to speed. Ideally the transition should be smooth so
> there is not a sudden noticeable change in control. Anyone have any
> ideas on this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power Steering*

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:39:34 -0400, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >I'm just starting converting a 2001 Audi A4 Quattro to electric. I
> >pulled the old ICE out yesterday and I plan on keeping the AC and the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power Steering*

The unit on the CANEV website looks just like the marine models I was 
looking at. That is probably where its from.



> Jim & Angie wrote:
> 
> > Hello Roger,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power Steering*

That interesting that the pump is only 1/4 HP, or so. That was what I 
initially estimated, but I read other things on line that suggested it 
was 2-5 HP. One reference actually suggested that removing the PS 
pump gained someone 26 HP on the dyno. Maybe at 6000 RPM that might 
be true.

If it was 1/4 HP then at 12 V it should draw less than 20 Amps. The 
Toyota MR2 pump requires a 75A fuse. That would be closed to 1 HP.



> Neon John wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:39:34 -0400, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]
> > >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power Steering*

I have been running the CanEV pump for 18 months and the steering is smooth 
as glass on my 77 El Camino. Even without the pump on, my steering is still 
on the soft side because of the high pressure tires.

I have banks of 12 volt and amp gages monitoring all my 12 volt systems, and 
I have never seen power steering ampere go above 20 amps, it normally stays 
at about 16 amps when turning on a 90 degree street corner.

Randy at CanEV said it is best to keep it on all the time, because it's 
hardly any load when you are going in a straight line. If you install a 
position control unit on the steering shaft so it will shut down while you 
are driving in a straight line and have it activated at a certain turn 
angle, then every time you may turn the steering shaft back and forth, you 
are going to short cycle, causing a higher ampere surge where the average 
ampere is higher, then if you left it running.

I have all the positional steering shaft control unit plus even a time delay 
unit, so as not to short cycle, but I found it was not needed.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Power Steering


> That interesting that the pump is only 1/4 HP, or so. That was what I
> initially estimated, but I read other things on line that suggested it
> was 2-5 HP. One reference actually suggested that removing the PS
> pump gained someone 26 HP on the dyno. Maybe at 6000 RPM that might
> be true.
>
> If it was 1/4 HP then at 12 V it should draw less than 20 Amps. The
> Toyota MR2 pump requires a 75A fuse. That would be closed to 1 HP.
>
>


> Neon John wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:39:34 -0400, Roger Heuckeroth
> > > <[email protected]
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power Steering*

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:45:15 -0400, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >That interesting that the pump is only 1/4 HP, or so. That was what I
> >initially estimated, but I read other things on line that suggested it
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] Power steering*

G'day All

Having acquired a donor (1991 Honda Civic hatchback, Australian spec) that 
has power steering, I'm looking to keep the power steering as it *looks* 
like less work and cost to keep it than to change it (due to the 'bits' 
already on hand).

Here is the theory:

I already have a permanent magnet motor, 72V 0.75kW/15 mins. Use that to 
drive the existing PS Pump under PWM control.

I will be pulling the steering column anyway (to get at the heater) so 
whilst it is out putting a small toothed-belt pulley on the column should 
be no biggie(?). Belt drive a rotary encoder from the steering column.

The encoder will provide a pulse rate proportional to the speed that the 
wheel is being turned. No biggie to make a piece of electronics to convert 
the pulse rate into a PWM chopper transistor drive to drive the PS drive 
motor proportional to wheel movement - so the more the wheel is turned, the 
more PS assist is provided.

The electronics would contain a frequency to voltage converter (IC), use 
resistor/capacitor/diode time constants to give it short ramp up time and 
longer decay time. Turn the voltage into a PWM (compare the voltage to a 
sawtooth voltage of the operating frequency). Analogue threshold/gain makes 
sure that the PWM on-time does not apply too much voltage to the motor). 
Use an optocoupler to get over from vehicle voltage reference to pack 
reference and drive a single large FET (I have plenty of IRFP460 on hand) 
and a suitable diode.

What opinions?

TIA

Regards

[Technik] James

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power steering*

On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 09:40 +1000, James Massey wrote:

> I will be pulling the steering column anyway (to get at the heater) so 
> whilst it is out putting a small toothed-belt pulley on the column should 
> be no biggie(?). Belt drive a rotary encoder from the steering column.

I can't comment on the rest of your plan (other than it sounds
complicated), but this is designed for measuring steering position:
http://www.race-technology.com/string_pot_steering_2_59.html


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Power steering*

At 09:32 AM 29/03/09, Tom wrote:
>On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 09:40 +1000, James Massey wrote:
>
> > I will be pulling the steering column anyway (to get at the heater) so
> > whilst it is out putting a small toothed-belt pulley on the column should
> > be no biggie(?). Belt drive a rotary encoder from the steering column.
>
>I can't comment on the rest of your plan (other than it sounds
>complicated), but this is designed for measuring steering position:
>http://www.race-technology.com/string_pot_steering_2_59.html

G'day Tom, All

That sensor is a position sensor, I don't need to know where it is, just 
how much movement is being applied. A pulse encoder does this just fine.

Fleabay suitable encoder:
ENCODER ROTARY, NEW, MADE BRITISH ENCODER PRODUCTS Item number: 160322655747

A hollow shaft encoder may be able to be mounted directly onto the steering 
shaft (suitably bushed) and not need the drive belt. Depends on the 
availability of a hollow shaft encoder and the diameter of the steering 
shaft. Here is a random web hit for a hollow shaft encoder:
http://www.photocraftencoders.com/HRL.htm

As to the rest of the plan, complicated depends on what you do for a 
living. That sort of stuff is 'just do' for me, so not a complicated thing 
for me, your results may vary.

Regards

[Technik] James 

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