# Fiat 126 Conversion



## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

*Electric Vehicle Conversion Fiat 126 Bis*

Hello to all EV enthusiasts... After some months evaluating components. The Fiat 126 is now taking shape of an EV..

In September and October, components and batteries were ordered:

Alltrax new SPM 72400 controller
SEVCON DC DC 
Sinopoly 60Ah batteries
LEMCO motor 

Machined adapter plate, flywheel etc..

Removed the ICE engine in November and started to work on the battery frames, mountings, dash instruments and wiring... things are getting very exiting now  


You can see pictures on my facebook album page..

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150336898781162.366410.527086161&type=3

Until the next one,

Eman


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Eman: That is a cool little car. Just perfect for your area. I totally agree on your choices for the equipment, but I was guessing at 100AH batteries just to keep the cycling a little shorter. 

But, as I am not experienced with Lithiums, my opinion on that is just a guess.

More pictures as you go please.

Miz


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Hello Miz,

Thanks for your post. You are totally right on the size of the batteries. 60Ah is a bit on the low limit. This is a budget conversion and lithiums are still somehow expensive even though I had a good deal from Sinopoly. So I went for the smallest capacity I could work with. These are very thin batteries only 34mm and the plan is that if things go in the right direction, I will double the batteries by another batch of 60Ah cells connected in parallel. 

All the best.

Eman


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

When you get those thin 60 AH Sinopoly cells please post some pics of them. I'm running a 60 amp hour pack of Thunder Sky cells in my buggy.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Finally Sinopoly Batteries were received!


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Really compact and nice set up.
The compactness seem impressive!

Green cell? Well!
91.2v charger for 24 cells (3.8v per cell) and no bms. That seem to me a dangerous systems to overcharge some cells.

I like your small car. Keep us advise about road test.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Hello Yabert. Thanks for your message. . I am planning to use a BMS provided by the same Sinopoly but am not convinced yet. By the way, the 91.2V can be adjusted to a lower voltage. (voltage is adjustable). I intend to charge to a max of 80V. If this is not in the potentiometer range of the charger, I intend to add a power resistor in series to drop the voltage... I am not an expert in electrics and maybe others can give their feedback. Here is a picture of the charger


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Sounds like a good plan on the batteries - charge to 80V, and parallel them later if things work out. I think you could go to 82V no problem without a bms provided you balance them first, but 80 is safer I agree. Looks like it will be a nice little car. I like it!


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2012)

Nice to see someone with Sinopoly Cells in hand. That is a great thing. I want some now. Cool little car. Can't wait to see how well it goes with the motor you are using. 

Pete


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks for your encouragement guys. Today I should be able to give it a first test drive.. Fingers crossed! Will post results later. Thanks, Eman


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Good luck Eman!

BTW, you cant use a power resistor to drop charger voltage..hopefully you can adjust it enough anyway!

Steve


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> Sounds like a good plan on the batteries - charge to 80V, and parallel them later if things work out. I think you could go to 82V no problem without a bms provided you balance them first, but 80 is safer I agree. Looks like it will be a nice little car. I like it!


Did I miss something? Eman, you are using 24 cells, right? 24 cells at 80V is only 3.33vpc. That will not get them full by any stretch. If you charge long enough you can get them full going to 3.4vpc or 81.6V.

When I tested a TS-LFP100AHA cell I put in 16.9Ah going from 3.300V rest voltage to 3.339V with a charge current of 3.531A. Continuing from this point to 3.451V with an ending current of only 476mA I was able to put in another 49.1Ah. Continuing on to 3.650V I was only able to add another 1.0Ah.

I'd recommend you start with 82V and maybe go up from there to possibly 83V. This is assuming you are letting the current taper to the mA range.

Take a look at maybe going with a half pack voltage monitor. The one I built is very easy to do and it will give you some feed back to determine if you really need a BMS or not. I've run a year without using the features of one, then I took it off and am now running with just the half-pack voltage monitor. I wrote it up on my blog referenced in my sig.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

First trial runs were a success! Incredible how much power can these small batteries and small motor exert. I am limiting power on the motor to 250A and 45V. 0-60kph in 16s (a bit better than ICE), today I topped at 85kph (53mph).

Here some video links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXYImDTQ3g8&context=C3bc636aADOEgsToPDskJokqAdrvqQfQnkkA5yMhcJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4To_jLtKXA&context=C3568d21ADOEgsToPDskJupvdEKZ5FddufrMflNarK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCZhWviPH6U&context=C3c78dacADOEgsToPDskIG_smg-h_B9eKTPJr_NX0Q

http://youtu.be/kK2OA6a6msM


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## SamSpade (Jan 12, 2011)

Congratulations!

I suppose the 60Ah cells were the new thin 34mm thick format? Could you measure if the dimensions are actual 140x34x213mm? A lot of times the battery manufacturers don't have updated spec sheets on their websites.

Do the cells really weigh only 1.9 kg?


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

GizmoEV said:


> Did I miss something? Eman, you are using 24 cells, right? 24 cells at 80V is only 3.33vpc. That will not get them full by any stretch. If you charge long enough you can get them full going to 3.4vpc or 81.6V.
> 
> When I tested a TS-LFP100AHA cell I put in 16.9Ah going from 3.300V rest voltage to 3.339V with a charge current of 3.531A. Continuing from this point to 3.451V with an ending current of only 476mA I was able to put in another 49.1Ah. Continuing on to 3.650V I was only able to add another 1.0Ah.
> 
> ...


Charger is capable to go less than 80V and more than 90V. I set it to 82V and charged the pack. I monitored charging currents and voltages almost every 15mins..

David, thanks for your valued comments. I was overconfident that I could read state of charge capacity according to the pack voltage. But I think it is quite difficult. Do you suggest any inexpensive instrument that can give me state of charge?

Thanks.

Eman


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

I didn't actually confirm by measuring weight and dimensions but am pretty confident that they are correct.. They are really light and thin.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

eman.cardona said:


> David, thanks for your valued comments. I was overconfident that I could read state of charge capacity according to the pack voltage. But I think it is quite difficult. Do you suggest any inexpensive instrument that can give me state of charge?


You are welcome. Yes, there are so many things that affect the very flat voltage curve of the LiFePO4 cells that using voltage alone is useless. I use the CycleAnalyst from ebikes.ca. It gives a wide range of values including Wh/mi (or Wh/km), Ah, Voltage, current, total Wh, forward and reverse Ah (good if you have regen), along with speed, time in motion, distance and a few other things. I set the odometer on mine to read the miles I have on the pack.

Another device to check out is the EV Display from dimitri. It is available at http://minibms.mybigcommerce.com/products/EV-Display.html. Each one has benefits over the other. The CA will need a current shunt where as the EV Display has a hall effect current sensor.

You definitely need an Ah counter. Remember that Ah is a measure of the SOC of a battery, not the Wh count. As the battery discharges and the voltage drops the current goes up for a given power. It doesn't change very much but can be significant when the batteries are cold compared to when they are warm and at the lower part of the SOC curve. For example, this morning I drove ~38 miles and used 106Ah with the batteries starting at ~9°C but on my way home when the batteries were up over 25°C only 95.7Ah were used. To compensate for the different environmentals for each direction if I take the energy used on the return trip and the average pack voltage down of 62.09V and back of 63.99V then the trip down would have used only 98.7Ah. That is only a 3Ah difference but you get the idea. With your pack a 3Ah difference is much greater than for my 200Ah pack.

Hope that made sense.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

The Fiat 126 is keeping well with traffic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTTR2zpE5yU


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Great Looks like a real nice drive.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

eman.cardona said:


> The Fiat 126 is keeping well with traffic!


Awesome! 
Please share more details about the Alltrax setting. 

Motor Amps
Motor Volt
Battery Amps

And what about top speed?


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Alltrax settings of the new SPM controller.. 72% max voltage output curve (sags to 48V), motor current 400A max, battery current 250A maximum. Top speed is still not clear but till now I saw 85kph which is above the national speed limit. I think I can go up to 90-95kph with the wind in favor


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## SamSpade (Jan 12, 2011)

Nice drive through the city!

I'm very interested in the performance of these new cells as I'm planning to purchase them too.

Can you please check the voltage sag at 60A (1C), 120A (2C) and 180A (3C) battery current? For example, if starting from 78.0 V does 180A (3C) current result in <66V total pack voltage (15% voltage sag or more)?

Thanks!


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Hello SamSpade,

Interesting question which I never took into consideration. I attached a laptop and took some readings.

Please note that I took this data when the batteries were on the low charge and I think it will be better with charged batteries.

2C - 10% voltage sag
3C - 15% voltage sag
3.5C - 20% voltage sag

Do you think that this is normal or maybe I have something missing in my calculations?

Cheers.

Eman


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

eman.cardona said:


> Do you think that this is normal or maybe I have something missing in my calculations?


Temperature! 25°c or 5°c? That can do a big difference.


Thank a lot to share all details. 
It's really interesting to know than a small car can probably hit 100 km/h with only 72v. It will be interesting to know how many Kw is need to maintain high speed.

About battery, the calculated impedance from your data is pretty bad. That give 2.7 mohm for those 60Ah cells and the Calb 70Ah claim to be under 1 mohm.
Do you consider 3.2v (76.8v) like 100%?


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## SamSpade (Jan 12, 2011)

eman.cardona said:


> 2C - 10% voltage sag
> 3C - 15% voltage sag
> 3.5C - 20% voltage sag


Thanks for the info.

There's little data that others post about voltage sag. But based on a few posts (tomofreno, etc.), 10%-15% at 3C seems to be the range for the Chinese prismatics. With 10% being good and 15% acceptable. Low temperatures make it worse.



Yabert said:


> About battery, the calculated impedance from your data is pretty bad. That give 2.7 mohm for those 60Ah cells and the Calb 70Ah claim to be under 1 mohm.


Comparing internal resistance (mohms) is problematic. First, the ESR is non-linear and the datasheets don't say at what currents those were taken. If the CALB data was true then those 70Ah cells would only have 6% sag at 3C. Second, most people get confused comparing the resistance of low capacity cells with higher capacity ones. Quoting voltage sag at several Cs would give a better picture.

So based on first glance I would rate these cells as an improvement on energy density (100 Wh/kg and 189 Wh/liter), but with minimal improvements on power density (because of the lighter weight and volume) and no improvements on performance. I define 'performance' as voltage sag under a given current, closely related to power density. Of course, the lower the sag, the better the performance, the higher C discharge possible.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

SamSpade said:


> Second, most people get confused comparing the resistance of low capacity cells with higher capacity ones.


I compared with 70Ah calb because they seem to be the news 60Ah cells (more energy, similare shape to old 60Ah cells).
A bit like the 60Ah cells of eman is the new 60Ah cells because older model was taller and heavier.



> Comparing internal resistance (mohms) is problematic. First, the ESR is non-linear and the datasheets don't say at what currents those were taken. If the CALB data was true then those 70Ah cells would only have 6% sag at 3C


Yes, but that don't include the loss in contact connections between cells and others loss who aren't included on laboratory test.
Real data are precious!..


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Those voltage sags are not very good. For a small cell I'd expected half the sag you are getting at those C rates.

For comparison have a look at this thread.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/cell-comparisons-please-contribute-62326.html

For example the calb 100 gives 8C at 20% sag and the calb 180 5.5C @ 20% sag - these are pack readings.

So either these cells have rubbish power density (but excellent energy density) or your readings are wrong somehow or you have loose / bad connection somewhere.

Maybe check that you are not getting hot / loose connections or hot wiring?


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## SamSpade (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for the link drgrieve. Please keep updating that thread.

Apart from connections, his numbers were also affected by the low state of charge. And a few cells already on the knee would contribute to that even more. Would be good to get the numbers when the pack is fully charged.


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

I'll add my personal observations from the last month or so... temperature has a HUGE influence on pack sag. My 48 130ah CALB cells are limited to 135v by my controller, on a cold morning when the car has been outside all night long (battery cases around 34F) I only get around 200a at that sag. On a warm day, it's more like 400 amps. Same car, same cells, same everything, except temperature.


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## SamSpade (Jan 12, 2011)

So on a warm day at 3C, that's 15% voltage sag assuming the cells start at 3.3V, or 12% voltage sag if starting from 3.2V.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Just wanted to congratulate you on such a fine conversion Eman! You make it all look so simple, which of course is the way electric cars should be. I'd like to know the total weight of your car and your average Wh/km figure if you get round to measuring it.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Hello Melcolm,

Thanks for your comments. Seems that consumption is 260Wh/mile from the wall socket and if my calculations are correct, charger is about 90% efficient that will make it to 230Wh/mile. I think that I am consuming a lot. Similar conversions were able to consume only 150-170wh/mile. 
I didn't weigh it yet, but I think I am somewhere between 600 - 700kgs.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Eman


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

SamSpade said:


> So on a warm day at 3C, that's 15% voltage sag assuming the cells start at 3.3V, or 12% voltage sag if starting from 3.2V.


When I was taking measurements, it was something like 3.1v / cell. Temperature was 7°c


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

dladd said:


> I'll add my personal observations from the last month or so... temperature has a HUGE influence on pack sag. My 48 130ah CALB cells are limited to 135v by my controller, on a cold morning when the car has been outside all night long (battery cases around 34F) I only get around 200a at that sag. On a warm day, it's more like 400 amps. Same car, same cells, same everything, except temperature.


As, said, it was about 7°c


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

eman.cardona said:


> When I was taking measurements, it was something like 3.1v / cell. Temperature was 7°c


Interesting data.
That can change a lot because the manufacturer rated generally battery impedence at 25°C. 

The power capability is probably not so bad for your battery.
Thank to share.

If you have chance, please take few reading of voltage sag with almost full charge battery and higher temperature.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

230 Wh/mile is a bit higher than I had hoped for a lightweight car. Could it be partly due to an enthusiastic driving style?  I've been to Malta a couple of times and know that the traffic doesn't dawdle.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> 230 Wh/mile is a bit higher than I had hoped for a lightweight car. Could it be partly due to an enthusiastic driving style?  I've been to Malta a couple of times and know that the traffic doesn't dawdle.


I cannot deny that there was a bit of enthusiastic driving style 

I am not sure if similar conversions have 160Wh / mile or / km..
Also, I have the dc dc directly connected to aux battery and I am not sure if it is taking some more juice than it should.

By d way, can you forward some ideas on what can be used as plug and socket for charging? I am not sure what is available and which is the better way.

Thanks 

Eman


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

There was a Fiat 126 conversion very similar to yours a few years back by a guy in Scotland: http://www.evalbum.com/1529

The owner reckoned he was getting 150 Wh/mile, but I think that was with fairly gentle driving. Unfortunately the car was destroyed in a fire not long after he had completed it.

As for charging plugs, I've just installed a 16A blue Commando plug (IEC 60309) in the car. Because the local charging points mostly use standard 3-pin British sockets I'll make up a lead with an IEC socket at one end and standard British plug at the other. I think you use the same plugs in Malta? Your choice should naturally depend on where you intend to charge and your maximum charging current.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

eman.cardona said:


> As, said, it was about 7°c


Ok that would explain the high voltage sag and at the same time your higher than expected wh/mile assuming you don;t have any sort of battery heater or insulation?

There are many threads on this forum going into much detail on these topics if you feel need to explore further. A battery heater or at least insulation will allow the batteries to be at a more efficient operating temp thus reducing voltage sag and improving your range and acceleration.

We are all very excited with your choice of battery. You are the first person on this forum I know of to be talking about them, and you are already have them in a car! Congratulations!

So this would be the reason we are requesting any sort of data feedback.

Cheers,

David.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> There was a Fiat 126 conversion very similar to yours a few years back by a guy in Scotland: http://www.evalbum.com/1529
> 
> The owner reckoned he was getting 150 Wh/mile, but I think that was with fairly gentle driving. Unfortunately the car was destroyed in a fire not long after he had completed it.
> 
> As for charging plugs, I've just installed a 16A blue Commando plug (IEC 60309) in the car. Because the local charging points mostly use standard 3-pin British sockets I'll make up a lead with an IEC socket at one end and standard British plug at the other. I think you use the same plugs in Malta? Your choice should naturally depend on where you intend to charge and your maximum charging current.


I tried to fit the 16A type plug and socket as seen in the picture. But I think it is not the right way. I want to fit the male to the car so that the handy female is safe and isolated. But I still want the male to be covered (the fiat 126 has no gas filler lid). and the cover seen in the picture is not the way I wished.. I thought of a male plug with spring loaded cover as the female usually are.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

I know what you mean. The closest I found was this: Ebay item number: 330431256191, but it's too bulky. All I can suggest is that you fit a regular 16A plug without a cover and fabricate your own cover for it.

Another option I've considered is simply to fit an industrial autowind cable reel with a standard 13A plug, so that I can just drag out the charging cable, like on a vacuum cleaner. It could be mounted anywhere convenient. There's no need to use the existing filler cap.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

MalcolmB said:


> Another option I've considered is simply to fit an industrial autowind cable reel with a standard 13A plug, so that I can just drag out the charging cable, like on a vacuum cleaner. It could be mounted anywhere convenient. There's no need to use the existing filler cap.


If you do that make sure you ALWAYS pull the cord out ALL the way before charging. If you don't the cord still in the reel won't be able to cool normally and could easily over heat, melt the insulation and cause a fire.

Also, delending on how the cord is attached to the reel you should inspect it regularly. When the cord in the reel in my rig wouldn't retract very easily I took it apart and found that the cord jacket had broken and so had the ground wire. I put some glue lined heat shrink around the reel end of the cord and then zip-tied the cord to the center of the reel after the cord made the 90 degree bend around the center. Hopefully it will last much longer.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

GizmoEV said:


> If you do that make sure you ALWAYS pull the cord out ALL the way before charging.


Yes, I should have mentioned that. Normally there's more length than you need on the cable, so I would trim it to the maximum length likely to be needed.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

*PV panel, solar panel to charge the Electric 126 BIS*

Hello guys,

I am very pleased with the performance of my new conversion. After I pass the registration saga, I though of using the money I am saving on fuel consumption and invest it in having an even better vehicle. I can add batteries, but I am more interested in installing a PV panel on the roof and hood.

In summer, here at Malta, we have 14hrs of day light and 10hrs in winter. 

I consume 250Wh/mile and drive about 6 miles a day. 250Wh x 6 is 1.5kwh. If from this PV system I'll obtain 150W for 10 hours, it is 1.5kwh of energy.

Does this mean that I can run for free?

I thought of a solar panel directly connected to an inverter (240V a.c. out), connected to the battery charger charging the batteries. Is this the way the system works? Am I missing something fundamental? 

Examples of a flexible PV panel and inverter links found on e-bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/28072200206...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2267wt_1088

http://www.ebay.com/itm/40023400601...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2670wt_1088

What do you think?

Thanks,

Eman


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have moved your post from the EV Info and merged it to the end of your build thread.

The idea sounds good but if you connect it directly then your car will need to be plugged in during the daylight hours to make the best of it.

It might be better to use the solar energy to run your house for free during the day and then charge overnight depending on your car useage patterns.
Perhaps a second pack at home might be a consideration for using all that sunlight.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

*Charging and Discharging DATA Fiat 126 Conversion*

Today, I charged my car and after consuming more than 30kw in driving, I thought of capturing some data and present it for your comments. Please have a look at the below data and graphs.

What do you think? Am I over charging? Can I discharge more than this?
Seems that cells are well bottom balanced but some of them dragged off when fully charged.
P.S. I am still not using a BMS 

Thanks and nice weekend.

Eman


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

*Re: Charging and Discharging DATA Fiat 126 Conversion*

Updated cell individual voltage after hours of rest (losing surface charge).


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Charging and Discharging DATA Fiat 126 Conversion*

You are basically using all the available capacity based on those discharge numbers. I find the cells get pretty soft once the resting voltage falls below 3.20 volts. You might be able to drive a mile or two since the pack is fairly well bottom balanced, but I think you would notice the performance drop within a couple miles. 

I would recommend turning down the charger a little. I would be uncomfortable with a cell above 3.4 volts 5 hours after charging. My pack is top balanced (almost because I added 6 cells and haven't fully matched them yet) and my total scatter measured in the last 5 minutes before my charger shuts off is 3.46 to 3.54 volts. Others may have different opinions on your charge numbers based on more direct experience with bottom balanced packs. I would be a bit uncomfortable knowing the smallest cell is potentially getting slightly overcharged each cycle.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

*Re: Charging and Discharging DATA Fiat 126 Conversion*

I agree with EVfun. I'd be most concerned with cell #3 and then cell #16.

I would recommend staying above 70%DOD for your recharging threshold. Also, I wouldn't recharge until just before you need the pack fully charged. The life of the cell is longer when it isn't left fully charged for very long. I generally start charging just before I go to bed so that my pack sits at full charge only a short while before I head to work. Then I don't recharge it unless I'm going on a long drive and need the full capacity or if it is somewhere below 50%SOC. I have a 200Ah pack and my charger only pumps in ~14A so it takes a few hours to charge a depleted pack. Also, my charger times out at ~9 hours so anything over ~130Ah takes a charger reset.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

*Ah SOC meter JLD404*

Hello Guys.. I am driving my small fiat every day now and I am still without a SOC meter and without BMS!

I am still monitoring charging quite closely to avoid surprises but since now it has been very stable.

I am interested in the intelligent Ah meter JLD404. Has anyone used it?
I found it on EVTV store and on another site..

http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx

I believe they are the same.. I think this can serve as a state of charge meter and also avoid over charge and over discharge using its 2 integrated programmable relays.

Any thoughts about it?

Cheers.

Eman


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

*Re: Ah SOC meter JLD404*

That's clever to use EVTV for a product review while pointing out the 290% markup


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

*Re: Ah SOC meter JLD404*



Ziggythewiz said:


> That's clever to use EVTV for a product review while pointing out the 290% markup


Is it the same product?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Basically. EVTV throws in a shunt, with a cast resin base that they make, and an isolated DC/DC converter to power the unit. So there is some value added, you'd have to price those items separately to figure the real markup.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Basically. EVTV throws in a shunt, with a cast resin base that they make, and an isolated DC/DC converter to power the unit. So there is some value added, you'd have to price those items separately to figure the real markup.



Any one used this product? I can perceive that it will increase the Ah whilst charging and decrease it whilst discharging. But how does it figure the first value of Ah? And can it drags out of calibration?

Regards,

Eman


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I've never used it but I'd guess you set it up with a fully charged pack initially and tell it your amp hour size, and it counts from there.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Another item that EVTV added to the package is instructions. According the Jack the unit does not come with them, or with poor ones.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

eman.cardona said:


> Any one used this product? I can perceive that it will increase the Ah whilst charging and decrease it whilst discharging. But how does it figure the first value of Ah? And can it drags out of calibration?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Eman


I have one of these but I'm not sure what you are asking. You input the shunt capacity and it has an internal clock to turn the shunt reading into Ah flow. It seems pretty accurate. It is consistently 2% off of the reading that my EMW charger shows but I can't tell you which one is more accurate. I like that it keeps the running total even through a power off.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

swoozle said:


> I have one of these but I'm not sure what you are asking. You input the shunt capacity and it has an internal clock to turn the shunt reading into Ah flow. It seems pretty accurate. It is consistently 2% off of the reading that my EMW charger shows but I can't tell you which one is more accurate. I like that it keeps the running total even through a power off.


Hello Swoozle, Thanks for your reply. What I am asking is this... How does the meter figure out the Ah in the batteries the first time? I can understand that it adds and subtracts the Ah by converting the readings from the shunt and accumulates them but how can it detects from where to start?

Eman


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

As I said, you have to tell it.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> As I said, you have to tell it.


I hope so!


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2012)

You tell it. I have one from Jacks store and it includes the shunt/base, 12v to 12v dc dc for total isolation from your main DC DC converter and your aux battery. You need to keep the unit powered up as it does not save information that I am aware. The setup also comes with a well written manual that Jack figured out and wrote. It would cost much less if you pieced out the components but he is getting the proper meter. There is one out there that looks like the same meter but does not do as much. Be sure you do have the right meter. Remember he said that the company originally discontinued the meter that Jack needed. The other meter looks exactly the same. Jack now has the company bringing them in from China. If you can source the parts properly you will still need the manual. Have fun figuring it on your own. The PDF on the site is difficult to decipher but its possible. I will be installing it on my Roadster.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

eman.cardona said:


> But how does it figure the first value of Ah?


If it works like the CycleAnalyst you zero out the Ah count when the pack is full and the meter tracks Ah removed. After a discharge and a recharge it should return back to 0Ah if there are no errors/losses in the process.


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

Some updates...

I have bought the Ah meter JLD 404 (the cheap one  ) it is working fine! 

Now that the vehicle is registered, I am planning some upgrades:

Add another battery pack to increase range.

Fit another LEMCO motor in tandem. About this one, I have some pictures.

Any comments are welcome.

Cheers,

Eman


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

eman.cardona said:


> Some updates...
> 
> I have bought the Ah meter JLD 404 (the cheap one  ) it is working fine!
> 
> ...


Any feedback my dears?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

eman.cardona said:


> Any feedback my dears?


Is there specific feedback you're looking for?

The JLD404 is great, though I'm still trying to figure out how to do what I want with it.

Adding batteries is always great, as is an extra motor


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> The JLD404 is great, though I'm still trying to figure out how to do what I want with it.


What is it you want to do with it? Are you sure it will do what you want?


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## eman.cardona (Apr 20, 2011)

The scope of the added motor is obviously to have more power, but more than this, to divide the current in half and thus having the load more comfortable on the motor. Also, efficiency should be slightly improved with less current on each motor.

I am planning to have the new battery pack connected in series and then connected in parallel with the existent pack. Does this differs in having single pairs of cells in parallel?

Regards,

Eman


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> What is it you want to do with it? Are you sure it will do what you want?


Just want it to protect some lithium cells, ideally it would cut the relay when under or over set voltages, but I'd settle for just protecting on the upper end. 

I wish the relay engage curve was nearly as simple as Jack R makes it sound, but it seems specifically designed for a bottom balancing type action where you can pass limits and it only acts on the way back down and other stuff that makes my head hurt. The main problem is in my head I want it to be a state machine/polling regulated but it is really a trigger based/interrupt driven system. 

I think I have it worked out now, using the lower limited curve with J1 NO for the top protection, and the same with J2 NC for bottom protection.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

eman.cardona said:


> I am planning to have the new battery pack connected in series and then connected in parallel with the existent pack. Does this differs in having single pairs of cells in parallel?


There is some difference in how the current is shared. In general buddy pairs in parallel can give better performance, but the large number of additional interconnections often makes that difficult/impossible so the way you're planning is probably the norm.


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