# Scrap AVS busses, any parts worth saving?



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

If they were near here I would be right there trying to get them for a steal
Underpowered in a bus would be great for a lightweight 2 seater
I assume they are somewhere in that big furrin land over the ocean


----------



## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Yup, thanks for the reminder to add my location


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

http://yarchive.net/car/rv/avs_electric_buses.html

Nuff said


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

No not "nuff said"

both of those letters were very incomplete,
Are the bits going to be any use to build an electric bus? - probably not
Would you buy them at "new" price? - NOT AT ALL!

Are there going to be lots of useful bits if you can get them cheap? - YES


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Duncan said:


> No not "nuff said"
> 
> both of those letters were very incomplete,
> Are the bits going to be any use to build an electric bus? - probably not
> ...


Yes, like any salvage vehicle there will be things you can use but a variety of the components used were of low quality or simply not used for the proper application and not reliable, so unless you get them at the scrap metal value there is really not much there that is a sure deal, perhaps the motor if you had a different controller, wires and god knows what else. 

I would expect most everything to be in need of a rebuild.

But as is, even in a different shell there are a lot of components that just aren't very workable.

So its like anything, if its cheap enough indeed go ahead, but if there is any significant cost involved its just a pink elephant.

Good tinker project.


----------



## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Looks like they use dual Solectria AC-55s in Delta configuration with UMOC445TF inverters. 10kW charger and BMS are PEI, can't find any info right off hand.

Rob


----------



## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Hmmm.... seems this dual AC-55 / LNG microturbine series hybrid system was less than stellar in a 15,000lb / 20,000lb GVW bus, but how about in a 5000lb RV with a 0.29 Cd 

Rob


----------



## Metadope (Sep 5, 2011)

Yes these buses were chock full of useful EV parts. Originally sold for upwards of $250,000, many have been auctioned on eBay, going for prices between $800 and $3300. 

I've purchased and disassembled four of them since 2008, and would be interested in doing more such projects in the future-- so if you know of any surplus AVS shuttles being sold at auction, or if you need any help/advice on recovering or refurbishing an AVS bus, feel free to send me an email.

Within each AVS-22 hybrid/electric shuttle you will find hundreds of pounds of copper, and and nearly a quarter-ton of aluminum, as well as the valuable and useful Solectria components (dual AC-55 motors, as mentioned earlier, and the matching UMOC controllers, and also a pair of DCDC750 converters). There are also many other third-party DCDC converters and contactors and 12v components.

Each AVS model is slightly different, but they are all collections of parts-bins.

The least useful parts are from PEI, the charger and whole-bus-controller (which also functioned as a charge controller), since no information is available (except for pin-outs and schematics).

The most valuable part, if present, is the Capstone micro-turbine, which can be sold for 3000 or more, and can be refurbished and used by itself to generate 30kw. With an RS232 connection to an old Windows 2000 laptop, you can control the Capstone.

And, yes, the Vixen would make a great conversion candidate, if you can find a bargain donor which has blown its engine.

My eye was always on the less-sexy but still-cool Revcon slantnose (an 80's Camelot would do me just fine) (because then you can paint the letters 'ev' a different color, or offset them in the logo, and there you go...).


----------



## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Odds are pretty good that the AC55 and UMOC445 in my scion xB came out of one of these vehicles. They were low-mileage but used take-off parts. 

These days a good AC55 and UMOC combo aren't worth much, but they still comprise a motor/inverter combo that can be used to build a working high voltage AC conversion without the need for CAN bus communication or other "complicated" stuff. Yes, the motor is 100lbs or so heavier than an AC50 you would get from the HPEV AC kits out there but on the other hand, it is a totally enclosed design instead of open frame. A future inverter upgrade would allow the motor to put out a lot more (at least intermittently) than the UMOC lets it do.

I believe the going price right now for a known good AC55/UMOC combo is probably about $1000. It would be worth a bit more if all the ancillary bits (breakout box, throttle pedal, etc) are also included, However those parts aren't too hard to replicate/substitute if you have at least radio-shack-project level electronics tinkering capability. 

There are probably Solectria/Azure DC/DC units on these buses too but if my experience is any indication these are the least reliable part of the set. However, the box can be used (for looks) and a better replacement circuit homebuilt, or a different manufacturer's unit can be bought new. Example of a rebuild using original solectria housing on my web site.

I have copies of the AC55/UMOC installer and service manuals on my website. I originally got them from a site metadope ran so I am sure he has them too 

I have a section on my website where I tore down, inspected, and reassembled a UMOC inverter. I then used 110VAC wall power and a bunch of frankenstein electronics to run the UMOC/AC55 on the bench for testing purposes. A similar process should happen for the ones on these buses which have been sitting out in the weather (hopefully not directly exposed to rain) for years. Obviously some amount of familiarity with electronics and safety considerations come into play to achieve this.

FWIW I am coming up on 27,000 miles and 3+ years on my UMOC/AC55 with zero problems against these components. I do have a spare inverter (or two) I am keeping for the inevitable replacement of unobtainium parts like the logic board, but so far so good.


----------



## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks, appreciate the insights!! I had kind of come to the conclusion that these older combos were not really worth the time/money at this point. It still kind of drives me crazy knowing they are just sitting out there. Most of the buses are still complete, so the components are relatively protected. If I ever get my Leaf/Sonett project wrapped up, I might be more tempted 

If anyone is interested the buses are located here, about half way back on the east side of the yard. As I recall there are 6 that are pretty intact, and they are visible on the aerial image:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/S...45b866b9f574a!8m2!3d33.4224754!4d-112.1385348

I believe the buses and most of the electronics in the yard are owned by this guy, so he'd probably be the one to haggle with. At least one other bus has been torn down and the DMOCs from it are in his warehouse. The partial frame of that bus was still there closer to the front of the yard last time I was there (maybe 6 months ago), not sure if the motors etc are still there.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...d35a170c39e09!8m2!3d33.4298421!4d-112.0780388

Rob


----------



## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

The Cap Stone turbine would be fun to play with as a range extender.


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

WolfTronix said:


> The Cap Stone turbine would be fun to play with as a range extender.


Fun as long as it doesn't need parts and maintenance.


----------



## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

rmay635703 said:


> Fun as long as it doesn't need parts and maintenance.


Yeah, you would have to get more than one for the spare parts...

Also, if I recall correctly, there was a big electronics module (I think it was another UMOC445 programmed for the generator application) that handed the turbine and managed the power flow from it into the battery and/or the motors.


----------



## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

It's been done...










Yeah, those capstones are the part that really make me all giggly. Not ultimately that practical, but sooo cool!

Rob


----------

