# What to build ???



## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

hello

l have spent a couple of weeks reading through the posts on here learning what l can but thought it was time l posted up my ideas or lack of them lol,
l fancy an electric drive project but dont quite know what to build 

l think l have to rule out a road car thats a daily driver for work due to the long distances l have to travel some days, so that really leaves the options of a toy, buggy etc or the other option would be to make some thing for the nightly run up to the stables, l have a small patch of land that is 4 miles away from where l live where l have some stables and a barn, l visit there most nights just to check everything is ok, its all country road with no hills and no requirement to do over 40 mph,

so that is, it an electric powered buggy for offroad use only or something small and light that is road legal and will carry 2 passengers and 2 dogs 
l cant see any other excuse /need/reason to build something

l did start of thinking a buggy was the way to go as the quietness really appealed to me and very probably my neighbours too 
however the infrequent use would probably mean it wasent very good value for money per mile travelled 
so l have been pondering making some thing that would take me me to the stables and back daily, at the stables is a large barn that l have the use of for storing stuff ( junk mainly ) now this sounds a good thing but its not l assure you there is some law of physics that means you just collect crap when you have space to put it  nature abours a vacuum might be one of then laws ? anyway all this means over the years l have collected stuff that no one else wants or was trying to get rid of lol,
amongst my collection of tat l have one of these 










chineese copy of a smart car, it was electric drive when it came into the country but the previous owner realised he was never going to get it passed an sva test and hence on to the road in the uk, so he removed the batteries the motor and controller and installed them in a aixim car instead, that left me with a little red smart car look alike thats er ideal for an electric conversion, it has a seperate chassis and space for batteries




























maybe a good candidate maybe not l would have the same issue getting it regestered for use on the road as the previous owner and the dogs would have to sit in a trailer , but the getting it regestered bit is holding me back on this one,

then l spotted a john deere gator on ebay and thought thats what l need a road regestered one of those, a bit basic perhaps but l only have to to 4 miles in it before having a rest , downside is l havent got one and l cant find a cheap one, this being as near to cheap as l can find lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180963612331?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 

then just to give me another avenue to think about l saw a suzuki sj pickup drive by a few days ago and thought it might make a good base vehicle, like this one 









well that appeals to me except l am 6'4" and dont think l will squeese into the cab but burried in the back of the barn somewhere l have a swb rag top sj like this one 









well this seems to tick all the boxes, its small and light, l can move the seats back to get in the thing, its already road regestered so wont need an sva test, l can remove the front axle engine, gear box and transfer box shedding quite a bit of weight of an already light vehicle, as l only plan on traveling 4 miles at a time l guess l can put up with the cart spring suspension

what are you guys in the uk doing with regard to insurance ? do you just tell them what you have done and they accept it ?
dose it need an engineers report ?
are there specialist insurers 

Andy


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## EVSource Mikey (Apr 24, 2012)

At least here in the states, it's not too difficult to register a kit car that has never been crash tested before. When I went to the DMV with my "Unknown" car, they just shrugged and asked for my money, they really had no concern for standardization, or safety. For kicks, you may want to see how far you could get with the chinese smart car.

As far as vehicle aptitude, the Suzuki and the Deere are pretty close. They both have a small bed that would be great for holding the battery weight (carefully observe balance during the build). I would go with the Suzuki, only because I could see the Deere encountering road registration obstacles just like the smart car.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

If you go with the Suzuki, try to keep it as standard as possible. No holes or cutting the chassis, no major changes to the body work, fit components to existing bolt holes, etc.

Done that way it will be just a case of changing the fuel to electric and maybe someone at the licencing office having a look to see that it is standard and doesn't still have the ICE hidden away anywhere.

If you change the structure of the vehicle then you could have to IVA test it. There is no consistency with the IVA, some inspectors will say it is needed, some not. Likewise DVLA could make you Q plate it and get a new chassis number but if the inspector disagrees you get stalemate and nether side backs down, nor talks to each other. 
Your vehicle is then scrap as you cannot get it road legal.


When it is road legal you can lighten it by removing stuff you don't need like excess drive train, and tidy up battery boxes and other stuff but do tell the insurance.

For insurance there are companies like Footman James and Adrian Flux who do specialist/modified vehicles. Some companies are ok, some won't entertain the idea. Some will insure you as electric but still insist on knowing your 'fuel type' and engine capacity so they can fill in the form!
It would be worth asking on the Battery Vehicle Society Forum as they are pretty much all UK and have real time knowledge of insurance pros and cons. The forum is a little slow though so you may need to wait a few days/weeks for a useful reply.
I am on there as 'Night Train'.

Have a look at Simon Rafferty's build. His range need is very similar to yours and he used a Land Rover Freelander and a lucky scrap find of an AC drive system.



Have fun with it, the 'back of your barn' sounds like a great place to have a rummage!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Oh, I would avoid the Chinese 'Smart'. Even if you got it road legal would you want to be in a crash in it?

If you want one then get a real Smart and do a conversion like Yabert's Smart car.

The Gator could be good but start with a road legal one and convert with the same caution as with the Suzuki. Our local Council has one that zips about doing ground works. Looks fun but the Suzuki would be easier to get parts for and modify I think.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

This gets my vote:








I used to own a 1989 Samurai. It was a cool little vehicle. They are high dollar now, here in Arizona. They are small enough to drive through anything.

If your roads are tarmac, then getting rid of the gearboxes and front drive axle is a good deal.

BUT, If it rains you might need a little extra traction occasionally, think about keeping the front axle AND transfer case (which also has a *LOW* range. Very handy at times...) 2wh high/2wh low and 4wh low- if I remember right.

With the AC50 you get a decent RPM, with the transfer case you get a GREAT gear reduction. A low weight vehicle. Flat terrain. Short mileage needs.

With some careful figuring, you might have a good combination for direct drive to the transfer case and electrical reverse (already in the Curtis controller).

Miz


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The Jeep seems like the best option. But if you will be using it only back and forth to/from your barn on a seldom-traveled country road, you might be able to get away with electrifying a tractor or utility vehicle like a Gator and hanging out the appropriate signage and lights for a farm vehicle. 

http://www.csrees.usda.gov/about/white_papers/pdfs/ag_equipment.pdf (for US)

This is a sign for Canada:









Couldn't find as much for the UK:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/TaxationClasses/DG_069649

http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/topics/transport.htm


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

EVSource Mikey said:


> At least here in the states, it's not too difficult to register a kit car that has never been crash tested before. When I went to the DMV with my "Unknown" car, they just shrugged and asked for my money, they really had no concern for standardization, or safety. For kicks, you may want to see how far you could get with the chinese smart car.
> 
> As far as vehicle aptitude, the Suzuki and the Deere are pretty close. They both have a small bed that would be great for holding the battery weight (carefully observe balance during the build). I would go with the Suzuki, only because I could see the Deere encountering road registration obstacles just like the smart car.


hi

things are a lot tougher over here to get on the road we have a test called the iva or individual vehicle assesment they look at, measure and test everything, l have put 2 vehicles through its predecessor the sva test, they measure things like how much pressure was needed on the pedal to apply the brakes to set levels all the way up to how much and at what velocity the air was coming out of the vents for the windscreen demist 
the chineese smart has far to much wrong with it to ever make it through, like the seats are bolted to a wafer thin fiber glass floor, a quick dab of the brakes and you would be through the windscreen seats an all 
the smart copy can be kept for its original purpose which was to convert into a lawn mower 

the deere l quite like the look of and most over here are already regestered for the road which takles away the some of the hassel, it would appear some are already electric drive so it would be tax free and ready to go even the insurance might work out easy to get since it was made as electric drive
but alas l dont have one and carrying the dogs might be tricky so the suzuki is looking favorite

Andy


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

mizlplix said:


> This gets my vote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hi

the price of sj's seems to be on the rise here too but l have a couple tucked away for future projects lol,
heres the one l was thinking of using, a low mileage rust free example









the idea of a vehicle with a seperate chassis appeals to me, as its only 950 kg to start with and l can loose a lot of the drive train l should end up with a very light weight vehicle ?
l would envisage building it all up on the chassis with out the body on and getting that driving first and then dropping the body on afterwards which would mean the batteries would have to be under the rear tub and in the engine bay and not in the load space ?

l need to know more about whether you would direct drive into the back axle or whether you would go through the transfer box ? low range being 2 to 1 could l not just use lower gears in the diff and remove the transfer box , normal sammy diff would be around 3.8 to 1 with an offset diff since its fed from the transfer box, l was thinking of fitting a vitara/sidekick back axle as its much stronger than the sj one, it has the diff in the middle which would make direct drive easier, it has 5.125 gears as standard and it has a hand brake mech fitted that the 413 sj dosent as its on the transfer box out put
all in all l think a vitara axle with direct conection would be easier to couple up but l know zip about how many batteries and what size motor l need for this to function at a reasonable level, ie 45 mph max speed and 20 mile range ?


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> Have fun with it, the 'back of your barn' sounds like a great place to have a rummage!



ha ha you can come and have a rummage if you want, you will have a field day lol

under this 6 wheel drive truck









is the transit axle l mentioned









if its any good for your tractor you can have it free, clearly l dont want to give it away for some one else just to weigh in but if you want to use it on your project no problem you can have it,
those are range rover side frames leaning against the truck wheels to give some sort of scale to the truck wheels

there is all sorts of other crap er stock l mean too














































pm sent




Andy


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

When DIY EVers die I hope they end up in your barn.


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> When DIY EVers die I hope they end up in your barn.


lol,
its where l want to be burried too

what are you guys doing for a heater to demist the windows ??
could l use a truck cab diesel heater fitted under the bonnet to blow through the bulkhead and into the original heater box with the matrix removed ?
suzuki has manual steering so no issues there and early ones had no brake servo, something else made easy


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

For giggles why not use that 6X to build an electric monster truck to crush gas guzzlers at car shows


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Salty9 said:


> For giggles why not use that 6X to build an electric monster truck to crush gas guzzlers at car shows


that would be one BIG electric motor, or lots of gearboxes lol


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'd like to take you up on that axle and then decide if I will keep the six stud hubs or use the Land Rover five stud ones. Thank you.

Have you heard about my 6x6 project from about 25 years ago?



























Andy.Baloo said:


> that would be one BIG electric motor, or lots of gearboxes lol


I have a 12" motor from a 96v milkfloat, needs a bit of work....


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> I'd like to take you up on that axle and then decide if I will keep the six stud hubs or use the Land Rover five stud ones. Thank you.
> 
> Have you heard about my 6x6 project from about 25 years ago?
> 
> ...



blimey thats some landrover, did you build/work on that in the street ?


l will dig the axle out and get some one to help me get it to the front of the barn, l can probably get it up to manchester in the next few weeks or you are welcome to fetch it if needed sooner?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Andy.Baloo said:


> blimey thats some landrover, did you build/work on that in the street ?


Thanks, yes, converted in the street over about 3 years. I phased the work to make sure it was running, MOTed and insured each year.

I also built a transfer box for it, with three speeds using lightly modified Land Rover gears and shafts.








It ran with a 3.6 litre 6cyl Ford York diesel with a 5 speed ZF box with low crawler 1st gear.
Gear ranges went from 1.5mph at 4000rpm in low first to 108mph (theoretical) at 4000rpm in high 5th.
I made Salisburys with long shafts both sides for that.

Sadly, the last I heard of it was that it was being scrapped in south Wales by its last owner after a previous owner removed the winch, engine and gearbox from it.
The wide axles would have been worth a bit if they were saved.




Andy.Baloo said:


> l will dig the axle out and get some one to help me get it to the front of the barn, l can probably get it up to manchester in the next few weeks or you are welcome to fetch it if needed sooner?


If you are able to bring the axle up I would be very grateful. It would save Arch telling me off for doing too much before I am fully healed up.

If it is awkward we can come down for it one weekend and I can winch it into the trailer.
Arch is getting good at driving my car and towing my trailer.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> If you are able to bring the axle up I would be very grateful. It would save Arch telling me off for doing too much before I am fully healed up.


Only because I know how frustrated you'd be if you broke again!

Seriously, I'd be concerned about you getting into that barn...

You'd never come out again!

With my line of interest in human power, I reckon what that Smart-a-like needs is two sets of pedals to make an enclosed sociable recumbent tandem....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Arch said:


> With my line of interest in human power, I reckon what that Smart-a-like needs is two sets of pedals to make an enclosed sociable recumbent tandem....


I wonder what it weighs in its 'stripped down' form?

A couple of sets of pedals and a 350W (cont) motor to meet UK regs.....


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The little Susuki would be my choice. Try Pluginsure for insurance in the UK. They will require full details of the build (motor, controller, HP, etc) including pictures of the build such that they know what they're insuring.

The electric tractor idea may have some milage too...?

I agree with Woody...avoid that little chinese Smart...it looks like a death trap, there's no structure underneath!!

Have fun!!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> Thanks, yes, converted in the street over about 3 years. I phased the work to make sure it was running, MOTed and insured each year.
> 
> I also built a transfer box for it, with three speeds using lightly modified Land Rover gears and shafts.
> 
> ...




building that in the street is impressive woody, l doubt l would have taken something like that on with out my warm and dry workshop lol


l am coming up to M8 8DY on wednesday and if l can find some one to give me a lift with the axle into the back of my astra van l can drop it of,
thats a big "if" as l cant lift it on my own, if no one is around to help me 2 more options present themselves, l will be back up in a couple of weeks in a transit pickup l can bring it on that or l can chop it up ?

l might be able to remove the hubs and drive shafts and cut through the axle casing leaving you to square up the cut of course  that way each piece is liftable,
will keep you posted, and your thoughts on cutting it are ??


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> The little Susuki would be my choice. Try Pluginsure for insurance in the UK. They will require full details of the build (motor, controller, HP, etc) including pictures of the build such that they know what they're insuring.
> 
> The electric tractor idea may have some milage too...?
> 
> ...



hi

the little suzuki is the way to go really isent it
l do like the look of these but l dont have one so that kind of rules it out 










the smart copy is useless as it stands but will drop on to a seperate chassis, possibly sj or a custom built lawnmower perhaps


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Andy.Baloo said:


> building that in the street is impressive woody, l doubt l would have taken something like that on with out my warm and dry workshop lol


I was younger in those days Too old and sensible to do it now.




Andy.Baloo said:


> l am coming up to M8 8DY on wednesday and if l can find some one to give me a lift with the axle into the back of my astra van l can drop it of,
> thats a big "if" as l cant lift it on my own, if no one is around to help me 2 more options present themselves, l will be back up in a couple of weeks in a transit pickup l can bring it on that or l can chop it up ?
> 
> l might be able to remove the hubs and drive shafts and cut through the axle casing leaving you to square up the cut of course  that way each piece is liftable,
> will keep you posted, and your thoughts on cutting it are ??


Best leave it intact as I don't know where I want to cut it yet. Depends on a few factors.

Don't worry if you can't move it soon, I can come and get it but happy to wait until a convenient time for you. I need to sort out unloading at this end and moving it around anyway.



Andy.Baloo said:


> the smart copy is useless as it stands but will drop on to a seperate chassis, possibly sj or a custom built lawnmower perhaps


You've got to do this!

The tractor forum will think you are nuts!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> You've got to do this!
> 
> The tractor forum will think you are nuts!


http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27428


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahhhh, I see you have already been down that route!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> Ahhhh, I see you have already been down that route!


yes l did start off going down that route but there was a change of plan when l became unhappy with the 2" box section l was using, l wil revisit it though as l have aquired 2 vitara front half chassis to weld together to give me a lightweight 4wd 4ws chassis that the smart copy body can sit on

anyway l am almost decided on the sj for a project l say almost as l was out planting a few trees last night and was thinking how useful a gator would be for driving off the beaten track 

still pondering


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The Gator could well be better for creeping about between trees as it is quite a bit smaller and probably considerably lighter too.

Starting with a road legal one and just changing the ICE for a motor, controller and batteries would gain a bit of weight so it would be worth estimating the remaining useful payload first.

Starting to wonder what you do for a living to have so many toys in a big shed and trees to play with....


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

starting with a road legal electric gator would be ideal, but they are going to be outside my price range l fear, here is one on ebay, 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOHN-DEER...K_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item4abb20e52d

l have seen them much cheaper wanting a new battery pack etc but have never felt the need to buy one before  l suppose the best time to buy something is when you dont need it lol 

l think the suzuki is going to be the way to go in the end


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

l forgot to post the pics of my number 2 barn the other day 

proper oldy world wooden barn with hay and stuff everywhere




























h'mm brand new unused lwb sj


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)




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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm impressed that you have cars upstairs. That is as mad as me building my tractor in a basement workshop where the only access is a steep narrow staircase in the house!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> I'm impressed that you have cars upstairs. That is as mad as me building my tractor in a basement workshop where the only access is a steep narrow staircase in the house!



lol you sound very much like me, l biult a jeep based on a austin gypsy with flexitor suspension in the shed, well l built the shed round the chassis is more accurate , with only a narrow passage way down the side of the house it meant l had to have it craned out over the house when it was finished, £150 for crane hire  but it was cheaper than renting a council garage for 18 months and a dam site more convienient 

there is no vehicle access to the upstairs of my hay barn, we took the bucket of the excavator lashed the cars to the arm and poked them in through the window


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The wife's afraid of the attic...I'll just hide my project cars up there...


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> The wife's afraid of the attic...I'll just hide my project cars up there...




my wife dosent even know l have a barn lol


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Andy.Baloo said:


> l had to have it craned out over the house when it was finished, £150 for crane hire
> 
> 
> there is no vehicle access to the upstairs of my hay barn, we took the bucket of the excavator lashed the cars to the arm and poked them in through the window




I had to make sure all the the components were small and light enough to carry up the stairs so I could strip it down and move it by hand.



Ziggythewiz said:


> The wife's afraid of the attic...I'll just hide my project cars up there...





Andy.Baloo said:


> my wife dosent even know l have a barn lol


You're both sounding like John Siddle. 
I am so glad I am with Arch, she built a pedal powered boat in her back bedroom a few years ago and then took it to a boat race!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> I had to make sure all the the components were small and light enough to carry up the stairs so I could strip it down and move it by hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



build a pedal powered boat: now there's an idea, l have been watching ebay for a pedola for months, preferably not shaped like a swan 

maybe loch ness monster shaped, would be a hoot to silently glide past the pub down at the locks on the canal just as it got dark 

Andy


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Andy.Baloo said:


> build a pedal powered boat: now there's an idea, l have been watching ebay for a pedola for months, preferably not shaped like a swan
> 
> maybe loch ness monster shaped, would be a hoot to silently glide past the pub down at the locks on the canal just as it got dark
> 
> Andy


Arch in her boat!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

For information, the boat is a 'mouseboat', plans are available online, and they are simple to build from a couple of sheets of ply. They can be adapted to any type of propulsion, so I guess electric wouldn't be impossible...


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Woodsmith said:


> Arch in her boat!



is there supposed to be a pic or link attached ? nothing showing in the thread for me but in my email notification it shows a link to a cycle forum that wont let me in without regestering,

l think l must have gremlins in my puter as l have sent you 2 pm's but nothing is showing in my sent box

Andy


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Arch said:


> For information, the boat is a 'mouseboat', plans are available online, and they are simple to build from a couple of sheets of ply. They can be adapted to any type of propulsion, so I guess electric wouldn't be impossible...


Hi Arch
l will go and google mouseboat but l am not sure about water and electric in the same boat, l could quite fancy a pedal boat though

thanks Andy


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, I changed the source of the image of the mouseboat. I didn't know it wouldn't let you into my other forum home.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Andy.Baloo said:


> Hi Arch
> l will go and google mouseboat but l am not sure about water and electric in the same boat, l could quite fancy a pedal boat though
> 
> thanks Andy



Yes, I guess you'd want very good insulation...

The basic mouseboat plan can be downloaded from here:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/gavin/mouse/index.htm

Mine used a commercial drive unit from a thing called a Surfbike (basically a pedal powered surf board with outriggers), which fitted through a boxed hole in the hull, so that the prop was amidships rather than at the back. The propeller is, I think, actually a large model aeroplane propeller, and only a few inches across, which makes the boat move at a relaxing gentle pace. But anyone with a bit of engineering nouse ought to be able to construct a pedal drive. Propellers are more efficient than paddle wheels!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

Arch said:


> Yes, I guess you'd want very good insulation...
> 
> The basic mouseboat plan can be downloaded from here:
> 
> ...


thanks Arch
will have a peruse

Andy


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

ok l had plenty of thinking time as l drove around the country today, l think l have decided l want to build something like a gator and probably not road legal, l came to the not road legal bit as l have a company van sat on the drive that l dont have to tax, insure or maintain so l can jump in that and go up to the barn anytime, having something else even if its electric drive with free road tax is going to cost to insure, so no savings to be made by driving it on the road
l want it to look like this but probably with out the cab









to dear to buy one so l will just make one from scratch, found these on ebay usa










$350 but that will work out to £350 by the time its over here no doubt, so l might have to make the front end as well 
l have worked out the whole thing in my head today, what chassis suspension steering. body etc just the motor and batteries to wonder about now then,

anyway l am off to the non road going section now

Andy


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I can move this thread if you want to carry on on here.


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