# 1988 Ford Ranger build



## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I've been wanting to dip my toes in the EV conversion waters for a while, just something fun to tinker with and bounce about town in, no extended commutes or highway driving. I have more or less decided on a small pickup as the best direction, due to the ability to situate batteries in or below the bed for good weight distribution and "concealment." In looking at 2nd Gen Ford Rangers as the preferred platform, I found one close by that just so happens to be an incomplete EV conversion. The guy is selling it for an unwell friend and had no info on it or pictures to share, so I headed over to take a look.

First off, it's a 1st Gen (5-spd), not the 2nd Gen that was advertised. That makes it quite a bit less aesthetically appealing, but also ~400 lbs lighter. At a hair over 2500 lbs, that's an even better starting point than I anticipated.

It has a Curtis 1231C-8601 controller (96-144V, 500A) and Advanced Motors & Drives FB1-4001A motor. Those appear to have been among the more popular choices 15 years ago, but I haven't researched enough to see if they're still considered a worthwhile direction.

The truck was last tagged in 2014, and the current owner bought it from whoever did the conversion. Batteries were removed by the previous owner, so it definitely hasn't been driven since then. (Angle iron battery trays were built into the rear of the bed. I would guess 6x 12V lead acid.) Paperwork is a bit of an issue, with a replacement title application and bill of sale signed over by the previous owner... Worse case scenario, if it's worth the asking price for the partial conversion, I could reuse those components in another vehicle that I can get titled.

It's an absolute mess of wiring, throughout the engine bay, cab, and bed area. I imagine I would be starting over with wiring, and probably redoing the eyesore of a motor mount -- I'm fairly competent mechanically and at fabrication, and I can generally avoid electrocuting myself if I have good instructions to follow on electrical work  -- so the main question is, does it seem like a good starting point for a project? He's asking $1,000 for it, which would be a great price for the motor and controller when new, but recent For Sale threads seem like people can't give them away.










I took a couple more pictures on my phone, but that probably covers the most important stuff. Despite the poor execution and state of completion, there aren't any visual signs of trouble from sitting that long, to my untrained eye. Is there any way to test the health of the motor/controller without power?


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## 52International (Feb 13, 2021)

What’s the body like rust wise? You should look for comparable ICE powered trucks and see if one without a drive train is worth $1,000. If so, pretend everything else is a bonus on top of a truck with no motor. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

52International said:


> What’s the body like rust wise?


Other than missing a side mirror, the body panels all look to be very good and I didn't spot any rust, although I didn't probe for it. (No road salt here, so rust isn't a major concern other than on things like Wranglers and 914's that rust the second they roll off the lot.) I was mostly focused on figuring out what all the conversion has going for it. Speaking of which, I should have taken pictures of the cab to comb through later... Lots of odd little things had been wired up, presumably for tach/volt/amp type displays, with wires dangling anywhere. Half the fun would be just seeing how much I can clean everything up.



> You should look for comparable ICE powered trucks and see if one without a drive train is worth $1,000. If so, pretend everything else is a bonus on top of a truck with no motor.


With no drivetrain, it's probably a $400-500 truck. Where that line of thought gets more complicated is, how much ICE truck could I get for $1000, how much could I sell the ICE components for, and how much [better?] EV components could I purchase with those proceeds? That's a lot of moving pieces.

Also, it does have the manual transmission, albeit in unknown condition, so it's mostly just the engine that is removed from the equation. I doubt it would have more than $150-200 value.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

I had a 500amp curtis controller on an 8inch ADC motor in an 1100Lb car and it was ok but uninspiring. I blew the controller (my fault) so I took the opportunity to upgrade to a ZEVA 1000amp controller. It was chalk and cheese. I never looked back. I expect stepping up to a Zilla or the like would be a similar jump again if performance is your goal.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

galderdi said:


> I had a 500amp curtis controller on an 8inch ADC motor in an 1100Lb car and it was ok but uninspiring. I blew the controller (my fault)...


That's surprising. Was that track-oriented use? 1100 lbs eliminates just about anything roadworthy...or at least road legal.  I'm very new to EV stuff and still facing a steep learning curve, but I was going by the rule of thumb of ~7 HP per 1000 lbs, the FB1-4001A being rated at 30 HP continuous at 144V, and the finished Ranger presumably being under 3000 lbs. By that figure, 21 HP would be plenty to move it along with traffic.



> so I took the opportunity to upgrade to a ZEVA 1000amp controller. It was chalk and cheese. I never looked back. I expect stepping up to a Zilla or the like would be a similar jump again if performance is your goal.


It does make sense to build for the maximum capacity you expect to need or want, but I have other fun cars for when performance is the goal. This project would be all about efficiency. Something to put around town in a couple times a week when gas prices are too high to stomach.

Out of curiosity, is it purely the higher amps of the controller that makes it much better for performance, or is it also the quality of it that came into play? And did you stick with the ADC motor with the ZEVA controller? Wouldn't that make the controller over-spec'd by quite a bit?


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

BTW, in the picture in the first post, the two solenoids rearward of the controller are White Rodgers 586-902, which are apparently pretty popular for diesel glow plug relays. Having read through the Curtis manual, would they be forward/reverse contactor coils? That would be a weird setup with a manual transmission kept in the mix, unless its reverse gear is blown. Also, they're 12V, which doesn't match the vehicle's battery voltage, and it looks like they're wired together, but it's possible the thick cable is passing below them at either end. That's too low of voltage to be a main contactor, isn't it?

I should have taken more pictures from different angles...

On the left frame rail is the throttle potbox, as described in the manual for throttle control, and it looks to be properly hooked up to the throttle cable via the crude bracket. But, its wires don't appear to be connected to anything.

It seems like good components (for the time) were utilized, but barely wired up. I get the sense that it was never completed, rather than being run for a while and then all the batteries stripped for who knows what reason. Heck, the charcoal canister and 12V battery cables (and tray) are still hanging out there, and the ignition coil is serving some purpose that you'd think a resistor could fill.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The front brake line is disconnected, so watchit


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The front brake line is disconnected, so watchit


Hmm, you do have a good eye. I figured that was a disconnected PS line just behind the coil (determining if it is a power or manual rack currently was on my follow-up to-do list), but that does look to a 3-way block for brake fluid, with the disconnected end probably going to the master. Here's another pic I took from a better angle:










I was trying to remember last night if the master cylinder was present or if it had been converted to a clutch-less tranny, but now you've got me wondering if the brake master cylinder was even there! They wouldn't have been trying to make a regen braking system work with a DC motor, would they? Regardless, that does raise more questions about the completeness of the truck overall. I guess I was too focused on the EV side of things...


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I have an 88 XLT converted originally to 16 trojan 100ah, now powered by 196 nominal split volt pack, 11" 192 kostov, soliton 1, 5 speed with 4wd reduction manual Koyo. Your Brakes were probably vacuum assist and somebody was trying to get the manual brake master cylinder. There is a perpetual issue with the clutch master cyl and effective bleeding. If you're an early ranger devotee you know all about that. Crap load of wire under the hood for early obd1 controls. I left mine there inside the looms some people just hack and butcher. Mine is also configured for peppy stock 2.9 performance with a tire torturing 116 hp. My son originally bought it for $400 as a stored runner, ran it for 2years until the obd system started random failing 8 years ago. He told me it would never be able to get registered again...... first ev conversion in reno for a smog control vehicle with "E" as fuel.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Er, stupid forum shortcut that's tripped me up before on this shared software, some key combination submitting the post when copy and pasting...



piotrsko said:


> I have an 88 XLT converted... Mine is also configured for peppy stock 2.9 performance with a tire torturing 116 hp.


How do you like that setup, and more specifically, the Gen 1 Ranger platform for it? I haven't seen many examples of people retaining 4WD. Is that why your power is stock-like, or am I misunderstanding?



> Your Brakes were probably vacuum assist and somebody was trying to get the manual brake master cylinder. There is a perpetual issue with the clutch master cyl and effective bleeding. If you're an early ranger devotee you know all about that. Crap load of wire under the hood for early obd1 controls. I left mine there inside the looms some people just hack and butcher.


Ah, that would make sense. Something along these lines was probably the intended direction:






manual brakes? - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


8-Cylinder Tech - manual brakes? - i did a search and did not find anything but i have a 1994 ranger and im looking to go to manual brakes. will one off like a 1984 bolt up. has any one done it ?



www.ranger-forums.com





Yeah, it's a crazy amount of wiring to literally untangle. Good thing the controller is well documented, for figuring out what the PO hoped to accomplish!

Is the clutch MC issue similar to the F-series small blocks, with their impossible-to-bleed internal slave setups?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

The 88 had the option for both but manual cyls are not available. Bore and stroke are different, I think 5/8 bore manual vs 3/4 boosted which is available aftermarket hotrod. Its ford, so I would guess f150 stuff bolts up. I said screw it and run a electric vacuum pump.

Yup to bleed the clutch I had to jack the front up about 4 ft to level the master cyl and get it to self bleed.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> I said screw it and run a electric vacuum pump.


Exactly what I was thinking from skimming through that link above.  I'm happy to scour the yards for parts, once I have a plan of attack.



> Yup to bleed the clutch I had to jack the front up about 4 ft to level the master cyl and get it to self bleed.


I suppose that's one way to get around dropping the tranny to access the SC for bench bleeding! Although, with how seemingly easy an electric motor is to pull, relative to an ICE engine, I would think it wouldn't be too much work to get at the SC that way.

Hopefully, the PO didn't delete the clutch like in some conversions. I like the idea of having it there still as a safety measure, to disconnect if the motor runs out of control.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Ummm last I saw the slave unbolts. However, the pushrod plops out and leaves fluid all over unless restrained. The master has an odd angle that traps bubbles. The solution is: always have a new slave or three very tiny hands. Better have a 3rd pedal, swapping isnt hard but the clutch is on a long shaft holding in the brake. AODs suck.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

^ That sounds like a somewhat different system than I'm familiar with. Probably an external slave, not an internal one like on the SBF trannys. If so, you haven't even begun to experience misery until you've worked on one of the internals. 

I'm almost halfway through @DIYguy's very detailed and educational build thread, and one thing I've gleaned is the ignition coil sitting on the fender liner of the potential '88 was likely retained for a tach signal. That is supported by this tach overview, that I just began perusing.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

GassedOut said:


> Hmm, you do have a good eye. I figured that was a disconnected PS line just behind the coil (determining if it is a power or manual rack currently was on my follow-up to-do list), but that does look to a 3-way block for brake fluid, with the disconnected end probably going to the master. Here's another pic I took from a better angle:
> 
> View attachment 129326
> 
> ...


The brake master cylinder is separate from the clutch master cylinder. That splitter block is not present in clutch hydraulics.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The brake master cylinder is separate from the clutch master cylinder. That splitter block is not present in clutch hydraulics.


I'm aware of that.  Not sure what I said to indicate otherwise...


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"I was trying to remember last night if the master cylinder was present or if it had been converted to a clutch-less tranny"


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> "I was trying to remember last night if the master cylinder was present or if it had been converted to a clutch-less tranny"


And? That doesn't mention brake master cylinder there. Maybe you were confused by me jumping between thoughts on brake and clutch MCs?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yup...you made the jump, then added this, a second jump, apparently back, lol:

"but now you've got me wondering if the brake master cylinder was even there!"

No biggie


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I ve done internal bellows throwout bearings. Either pull engine or drop trans, your choice depending on height of garage roof and lift equipment. I don't remember when the ranger got an internal slave, probably in '90-95. I didn't see evidence of a clutch line in the pictures so I still hope you have the 3rd pedal. Easy to get at pick a part, rare to find a stick anymore, rarer to find the correct one but one could weld a pedal to the shaft head. Mounting Holes are there under the rug.

Your controller is maybe generating tach signals or you would be running a prox sensor on the motor somewhere. I use a lovejoy half and a cherry sensor off the front shaft which simulates a 6 banger, but my controller handles rpm in and out and I built a mosfet circuit to take pwm into frequency and invert the pulses. Either way there would be nothing left installed to drive the factory coil in these conversions.

Had to use flex brake lines since nobody sold the plastic clutch line and the fittings are not available last I saw but they do remove and rebuild at a decent brake shop.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> I didn't see evidence of a clutch line in the pictures so I still hope you have the 3rd pedal. Easy to get at pick a part, rare to find a stick anymore, rarer to find the correct one but one could weld a pedal to the shaft head. Mounting Holes are there under the rug.


2nd Gen Rangers are easy to find parts-wise, including M/T's, but I haven't paid much attention to 1st Gen's. Pretty sure I've seen a few of them at the yards... There was so much garbage strewn about the cab, I didn't pay as much attention to it as I should have. I'm guessing the pedal set hadn't been modified, as the whole conversion doesn't appear to have progressed that far before being abandoned.



> Your controller is maybe generating tach signals or you would be running a prox sensor on the motor somewhere. I use a lovejoy half and a cherry sensor off the front shaft which simulates a 6 banger, but my controller handles rpm in and out and I built a mosfet circuit to take pwm into frequency and invert the pulses. Either way there would be nothing left installed to drive the factory coil in these conversions.


I didn't see anything in the Curtis manual about tach output. I was looking over the pictures I took, for a proximity sensor like you mentioned, but that chunky motor mount blocks the view from pretty much every angle.

I was puzzling over how the ignition coil could output anything if it's sitting there on its own...









Tachometer installations


Tachometers have been installed in vehicles of all types, almost from their very inception. From aircraft, to heavy haul to everyday commuters, tachometers are installed as a factory standard. Why? 90% of the public does not even use them......But there they are. NOTE: I am deliberately not...




www.diyelectriccar.com





"There are many types of tach signals:

Some are driven by RMS voltage wave sampled just after the coil or ignition module and sent directly to the tach. (no ECU)"

That's the section that had me thinking down that path. I've looked at a few examples of proximity sensors and should [hopefully] be able to identify one if present, once getting to that stage.



> Had to use flex brake lines since nobody sold the plastic clutch line and the fittings are not available last I saw but they do remove and rebuild at a decent brake shop.


I've found it's best to just buy a new master-slave combo. It's pre-bled and includes new lines. Your idea of brake lines is probably longer lasting, though, and could perhaps be bend to avoid some of the bleeding issues.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

2000 F350 uses a plastic line and hydraulic master/slave. Was still available as of three years ago.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Still available as of last month for a changeover 2000 F250, same part #. Pre bled assy Unobtainable on a 88 ranger as of 2009 or I would bought the whole assembly and avoided the whole F'n bleed ordeal. However my line is rubber and longer so it does this whopping U turn instead of the metal fitting for my trans set up. Cant see the master under the vacuum brake booster anyways.

Ist gen tachs have a frequency input LSI chip running the d'something meter movement. Hall sensor will generally have 3 wires and it will be near an end bell for shaft access.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Pre bled assy Unobtainable on a 88 ranger as of 2009 or I would bought the whole assembly and avoided the whole F'n bleed ordeal.


Ah, that sucks. RockAuto sometimes clears out old stock ... might be worth keeping an eye on that, if you aren't already.



> Ist gen tachs have a frequency input LSI chip running the d'something meter movement. Hall sensor will generally have 3 wires and it will be near an end bell for shaft access.


Thanks, I'm filing all this info away to be forgotten when the time comes to utilize it.  I'm going to see about putting an offer in on the truck today or tomorrow. See if he's flexible on the price to minimize the risk with the uncertain build and paperwork status.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

GassedOut said:


> I'm very new to EV stuff and still facing a steep learning curve, but I was going by the rule of thumb of ~7 HP per 1000 lbs, the FB1-4001A being rated at 30 HP continuous at 144V, and the finished Ranger presumably being under 3000 lbs. By that figure, 21 HP would be plenty to move it along with traffic.


Where did this rule of thumb come from?

7 HP per 1000 pounds (11 kW/1000 kg, 143 lb/HP) is enough to keep the truck moving with traffic, but really marginal for getting up to that speed. Common production cars run about ten times that much power per unit mass (weight), although of course that's more than they need; even my motorhome has twice that much power per weight. I assume that the idea is that for acceleration a much higher peak power would be used (which could not be sustained continuously without overheating), but how much more peak power would you expect?

Also, unless very short range and/or light loads are acceptable, 3000 pounds seems optimistic for the converted and loaded truck.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> Where did this rule of thumb come from?


Here's one example I saved in my notes:



http://www.evamerica.com/02evprimerwinter20090108091.pdf



I assumed the much lower HP/lb figure comes from the instant torque of electric motors, vs ICE needing more initial power to get the RPMs up.



> Also, unless very short range and/or light loads are acceptable, 3000 pounds seems optimistic for the converted and loaded truck.


It's just a whisker over 2500 lbs stock, according to specs. Take off 300+ lbs for engine/tank/radiator/exhaust/etc., add back in 200+ lbs for motor/controller/cables ... that leaves 600 lbs for batteries to stick around or under 3000 lbs total. (I'm not figuring loaded weight -- I have another truck and trailer for actual heavy work -- mostly just around town driving and maybe moving gravel around the yard, in which case range isn't a concern.) I believe a 40 kWH Leaf pack is 660 lbs, with all it's heavy duty reinforcement, and I don't anticipate going nearly that high (20-30 kWH??).


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

GassedOut said:


> That's surprising. Was that track-oriented use? 1100 lbs eliminates just about anything roadworthy...or at least road legal.  I'm very new to EV stuff and still facing a steep learning curve, but I was going by the rule of thumb of ~7 HP per 1000 lbs, the FB1-4001A being rated at 30 HP continuous at 144V, and the finished Ranger presumably being under 3000 lbs. By that figure, 21 HP would be plenty to move it along with traffic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes it was purely a track car. The Curtis worked and was fun but not fast by any stretch of the imagination. Those sorts of figures they quote are usually to get to adequate performance for a road vehicle. If you are ok with efficiency and enough performance to keep up then the curtis may be ok. Amps gives low down acceleration off the line through torque while extra volts gives better top end performance. That is why the Zilla 2K is a popular choice as it gives the best of both worlds but then you need the battery to support it.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

^ That's reassuring, thanks.

I had a related thought this morning... From what I've read, it seems like most EV conversion drivers stick to 2nd and 3rd gear. But, if actually using 1st gear, wouldn't that address most of the issue with an "under-powered" motor getting the truck rolling? I've been driving sticks most of my life, so starting in the ol' muscle memory gear would be perfectly acceptable, and probably better for jumping between vehicles.

The seller accepted my $750 offer -- my neighbor says I should have offered $600, but that felt too low -- and just located the keys, so I'll be picking it up as soon as he moves cars around to get it out. Then I find out what I got myself into...  I'm thinking I should just tow it straight to DMV, since the title recovery process will probably need a VIN verification? Once I unload it at home, it'll be tricky to get it back out until it's running under its own power.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I always do the VIN inspections while it's on the trailer on the way home. 

Would rather toss the $7 DMV fee than have to reload a propulsion-deleted vehicle back on the trailer for titling/registration VIN inspection.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

After more digging through old stuff, the low HP figure of the FB1-4001A motor appears to be somewhat attributable to different reporting methods.









The Electric Vehicle Conversion Handbook HP1568


A guide on how to convert any gas- or diesel-powered vehicle to electric power. Includes ownership advantages, basic EV operation, subsystems, components, basic EV operation, project vehicles, and conversion kits.



books.google.com





That says it's capable of 85 HP @ 120V. I was skeptical of that, until I found this:






Man Builds His Own Electric S2000 - NASIOC


Man Builds His Own Electric S2000 Non-Subaru News & Rumors



forums.nasioc.com







> At 96 VDC, 20 HP continuous, 23 HP for one hour, 35 HP for 5 min., 70 HP peak
> At 120 VDC, 25.2 HP continuous, 27.5 HP for one hour, 43 HP for five min., 85 HP peak
> At 144 VDC, 28.5 HP continuous, 30.4 HP for one hour, 48.8 HP for five min., 100 HP peak


That confirms the 120V figure, and also gives a max spec (100 HP) for the planned 144V. Seems newer stuff just points to the "continuous" figure [correctly] and omits the peak. From that standpoint, 100 HP peak compares favorably to the stock 80 HP of the '88 Ranger, which is also peak but certainly more sustainable. If it's only 48.8 HP for 5 min, 100 HP obviously wouldn't be attainable for long.

I also found this, which says the motor is rated for EVs up to 5000 lbs:



Store


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

88 hp for the 4banger. 2.9 was 118 I believe. Don't make me get my references out.

Continuous is different from peak and as much as 75 % lower since it factors winding heat gain. You get 180C before things go zap!!. You can get that temp in 14 seconds or couple of hours. 144v is the most a reasonable person gets before the comm flashes over, aka ZORCH. Might be able to push 180 if you retard the comm 8 degrees.

I have 10 forward 2 reverse, depending what I am doing use them all, but not always. My Kostov has a torque curve like a small block chevy, likes 2000 to 4000 rpm for amp remediation, I am voltage limited above 4000. It will start out in 5th, but similar to the V6, it sucks and winding temps skyrocket. I use 1low for pulling tree stumps and parking my trailers, or suprising teslas at the stoplight but only once. 3,4,5 low for hotrodding, and 5hi for those 75mph freeway runs through town. 3hi is great for those 4mile long 6% hills at 45 on the city streets. Reno is really hilly.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> 88 hp for the 4banger. 2.9 was 118 I believe. Don't make me get my references out.


I was assuming it was the 4-cyl originally (didn't take a picture of the door jamb sticker), since I don't see many V6 Gen 1's listed, and going by that as the base to compare to, since the smaller engine is capable of powering the 2WD standard cab adequately. You may be right about 88 HP. 80 is the figure I found, but then when I look up weights, I see estimates from 2200 to 3600 lbs, so take any internet numbers with a grain of salt!



> Continuous is different from peak and as much as 75 % lower since it factors winding heat gain. You get 180C before things go zap!!. You can get that temp in 14 seconds or couple of hours.


Keep sending that knowledge my way!  I may have to read, and re-read, some of it slowly, but more info is always better than less.

What I was getting at was, peak HP for an ICE'r can't be maintained for long, either. So, 100hp EV vs 80hp ICE may not be that far apart, especially when factoring in the immediate nature of torque for EV. But, the true comparison is probably closer to the "5 minute" figure of 48.8 HP than to the 100 HP max.



> I have 10 forward 2 reverse, depending what I am doing use them all, but not always. My Kostov has a torque curve like a small block chevy, likes 2000 to 4000 rpm for amp remediation, I am voltage limited above 4000. It will start out in 5th, but similar to the V6, it sucks and winding temps skyrocket. I use 1low for pulling tree stumps and parking my trailers, or suprising teslas at the stoplight. 3,4,5 low for hotrodding, and 5hi for those 75mph freeway runs through town. 3hi is vreat for those 4mile long 6% hills at 45 on the city streets. Reno is really hilly.


Can't say I've ever considered how a transfer case's high and low ranges behave in Reverse. That's good to know I'm not way out in left field as far as actually using 1st gear, depending on the situation.

Speaking of SBC's, I was just reading about this Vette build with the FB1-4001A motor, and originally the 1231C-8601 controller:






Mo's 1996 Electric Corvette Conversion - Update - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion


C4 General Discussion - Mo's 1996 Electric Corvette Conversion - Update - It has been a while since I posted my recent updates, so I thought I would share. most responses to my first post over a year ago were very positive. Again if you have nothing kind to say please keep it to yourself. I...



www.corvetteforum.com





My friends visit Reno regularly. I'll have to tell them to keep an eye out for you (sneaking up on them silently)!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Wont be silent, the kostov whines like a turbine and the front tranny bearing is going bad so that howls unclutched. Normal crap paint dark red ranger from front and sides white bed cover, ass end has ALL ELECTRIC sign and EFORD sticker. Will be looking.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

All I will ad is: thermocouples. Clamp one to the case middle and make sure it never goes above 140C or whatever that is F. I use a bbq remote sensor set to medium well flashing a light in that idiot light cluster on the dash.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> All I will ad is: thermocouples. Clamp one to the case middle and make sure it never goes above 140C or whatever that is F. I use a bbq remote sensor set to medium well flashing a light in that idiot light cluster on the dash.


Battery case or motor case? I'm thinking the latter, since there's still the whole BMS topic to wade through in more detail for the former.

Clever repurposing of a BBQ sensor.

Oh, and I'll be picking up the, uh, pickup, tomorrow if all goes well.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Motor case. Im a non BMS follower


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Motor case. Im a non BMS follower


Yay, I guessed right.  Do you have a write-up anywhere on why you don't like BMS and what you did instead? I saw one reference to them being Battery Murder Systems, but can't remember if it was you or someone else.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Either Floyd dr or john316 ?
I was the second person maybe 3rd to use a volt battery on this forum back in 2013(?). Nobody knew how the factory bms worked and I figured it was worth frying a $500 junkyard investment instead of $1600 on FLA every three years. Monitoring in full paranoia for the first 6 months showed I didn't need one, and everyone was destroying their Calbs using the technology of the day. Volts for some reason don't need one *And* they don't spontaneously catch thermonuclear fire or at least in what 8 years?


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Thanks, I'll see if I can find posts from either of them.

Sounds like the Volt battery should be near the top of my list of donor choices, huh? I've never seen one of them in the yards, so I'll have to shop around car-part.com or eBay. There is a shop nearby that sells refurbished battery packs, putting the best balanced cells together and even offering a warranty, so it may be worth checking whether they ever get Volt stuff in. They seem to specialize in Prius stuff, though.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Car-part.com seems abandoned. 

I've been looking for Bolt EV doors for about six months now (some old lady sideswiped me on the passenger side) and it keeps coming up with the exact same old inventory. 

Putting a parts request in gets nothing but crickets vs salvage yards tripping over themselves with offers.

Disappointing.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Car-part.com seems abandoned.
> 
> I've been looking for Bolt EV doors for about six months now (some old lady sideswiped me on the passenger side) and it keeps coming up with the exact same old inventory.


Interesting you should mention that. I was at the local yard last week and asked them about the "Call" price on a few transmissions that car-part.com listed as being in inventory (the local search page wasn't responding, so I jumped over to theirs that includes the local yards), but there was no such thing in the system. He told me car-part.com is a huge headache for them, so that explains a few things.

I did search them just now for Volt batteries and found a few $1500-2000 options somewhat within driving distance (edit: closer to $1k if searching just the pack, not the module, but fewer nearby options), so once I educate myself enough to know a good pack when I see one, that may be worth pursuing...if they really exist.

But, if I'm being honest, I expect to go pretty slow with this project, kinda sorta hoping better battery tech will be available by the time I get that far! Wishful thinking, I know.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Well, the '88 Ranger is in my possession now, and the title application was accepted! I was planning on picking up Wed, so I figured I might as well call DMV on Tue and see if the VIN inspection would be necessary. After 20-30 minutes on hold, I was connected to a guy who just happened to be researching EV conversions himself, and had narrowed his choices down to Beetles (one of the early directions I considered) and Rangers! He looked up the license plate and said everything looks to be in order, and that no VIN inspection is needed. We had a nice little chat, and he said he'll for sure be following any progress, since he's always scouring the net for local builds.

Ironically, I got a text from the seller while on the phone with DMV, saying he had gotten stuff moved around and I could pick it up that day.

More pics of where things stand...










Other than the two dents on the fender, and another on the other side, the body is darn near perfect for a 34 year old truck. I suppose it helps that it was basically abandoned for the past 10-15 years. I thought I found the mirrors in the back, after all the garbage had been removed, but it turns out they are the wrong kind with upper/lower mounts.



















I haven't tried following that mess of wires yet to figure out where they lead and what was being hooked up (displays and controls). If anyone has guesses what might have been the intended direction, feel free to chime in.










Different view of the motor setup. From straight on, I noticed it seems to be angled rather significantly toward the passenger side, unless the mount itself is playing tricks on my eyes. What's puzzling is, to straighten that out, the bellhousing would hit on the firewall on the driver's side. I guess I'll know more when I rebuild the mount, but I need to get a replacement right side engine mount first, since they disposed of that and made a custom mount further back for load balancing, I guess. That seems totally unnecessary, being a sub-150 lb motor to brace.

I've got some nice rectangular aluminum bar and angle, plus some gorgeous brushed aluminum plate from an old $20k CRT projector. My hope is to build a triangle of sorts, from the engine mounts back to the adapter plate (you can see a piece of angle iron bolted to it, peeking out at the corners in the pic above), then reinforce that with with the brushed plate over the top that'll double as the controller's cooling plate. That'll eliminate two huge chunks of steel, between the two mounting setups. Then, I just need to add something over the front of the motor -- probably more plate, with gussets at the ends -- to tie in those mounting points. Is it necessary to have the cutout frame the round extrusion around the motor's shaft, like sloppily done above (barely visible; I can get a close-up pic), or is just lining up with a few bolt holes sufficient?










Nice perk found here, now that I knew to look for it ... it appears to have been converted to manual brakes. I'll have to see if I can find a part # to make sure they used one off the proper vehicle, and try to confirm whether the longer pedal was swapped in. I know they lengths will differ, but I haven't yet found measurements on the two. Also, it's a manual steering rack, which appears to have been original. So, I don't need to worry about 12V power for either of those ... just gotta get the missing brake lines added; there's nothing going to the front wheels.










Wow, there was way more going on in the bed than I expected. All that was visible under the pile of garbage was the rear of the battery cage. With that stack of cables, and the visual indication of high current having been run through the wiring up top in the pic, I'm thinking there actually were batteries in it at some point, and it was taken apart rather than abandoned mid-conversion.










You can see the cage was marked for pos/neg orientation on the left set of trays. I don't even have a guess at this stage as to what the setup was, and why there are so many 12V solenoids "in the loop." The yellow conduit popping up on the left in the pic goes to the fuel door, where there are two wires that were probably meant to be a 110V charging ports. Electrical PVC conduit carries two runs of wires below the truck.



















So much better looking without that godawful canopy! I figured I would break it down, since I'd probably have to pay someone to take something so hideous off my hands, but then I noticed it had a nice aluminum frame and pretty cool side windows that could be useful for something, so I stripped it down to its frame and put it back on temporarily like a mini troop transport. I got the remainder of the fuel system stuff removed, got a few unneeded brackets out of there, removed the spare tire and mount, and started pulling the nasty interior apart.

The canopy was hiding an IBEW sticker, so the guy who did the conversion was presumably an electrician. I can't believe how many press-on nails and makeup items I cleaned up in the cab.

That's all for now. The weather sucks for the next couple days, so I probably won't get much done with wiring. Maybe I'll take those fenders off in the meantime and see about finessing those dents out.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I've said it in @gregski's thread, I'll say it here. Aluminum alloy in contact with steel invites corrosion. In dry climates it may not matter as much, but the aluminum will likely turn to mush/powder as the copper comes out.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> I've said it in @gregski's thread, I'll say it here. Aluminum alloy in contact with steel invites corrosion. In dry climates it may not matter as much, but the aluminum will likely turn to mush/powder as the copper comes out.


I hadn't considered that. I know dissimilar metals are bad for nuts and bolts, where they tend to bond, but I've never seen it be an issue for adjacent panels. (Wouldn't painting the aluminum solve the problem?) My motor-tranny adapter plate is aluminum, and I see no sign of it wasting away despite probably having been in contact with steel for ten years.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yup - any electrical isolation works. Likely easier and more robust to paint the steel - hard to get paint to stick to Al. If you don't have salt spray, it may not matter as much.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Generally speaking the small motor and controller for a heavy vehicle may not be what you really want. Even if you have an around town vehicle you still want it to get out of its own way rather spritely. If you just want an NEV and never see the freeway or 45mph just purchase an NEV and you'd be golden. I'd stay away from underpowered conversions. Minimum of a Warp 9 Motor and at minimum 650 amps or better. A good GE 9" motor would work well too. With a 9" motor and the Curtis and at least 144v you should be OK for a nice around the town car and a quick jump on the freeway if needed too. That looks rather messy in this conversion you are showing. I did just that as well. Purchased a partially started conversion that had a Warp Impulse 9" motor and I put in a 96v system using my Synkromotive controller and ran it at 800 amps. It was good. Eventually sold it and it now lives and continues to live as an electric MG Midget. You can do it but I would not spend much. $500 maybe. There will be lots of work getting it looking good and running good. At least the motor and controller are there.


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## Thang Nguyen (Aug 9, 2021)

GassedOut said:


> I've been wanting to dip my toes in the EV conversion waters for a while, just something fun to tinker with and bounce about town in, no extended commutes or highway driving. I have more or less decided on a small pickup as the best direction, due to the ability to situate batteries in or below the bed for good weight distribution and "concealment." In looking at 2nd Gen Ford Rangers as the preferred platform, I found one close by that just so happens to be an incomplete EV conversion. The guy is selling it for an unwell friend and had no info on it or pictures to share, so I headed over to take a look.
> 
> First off, it's a 1st Gen (5-spd), not the 2nd Gen that was advertised. That makes it quite a bit less aesthetically appealing, but also ~400 lbs lighter. At a hair over 2500 lbs, that's an even better starting point than I anticipated.
> 
> ...


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## Thang Nguyen (Aug 9, 2021)

if you want to convert an ICE to EV, consider your labors, time and money you invested in the car (it going to take everything a lots from you), you should get a nice sound body with out any dent or rusted, make sure all the papers are corrected and legitimately. As to me I would take everything out and start it over, that’s way you know everything where they are, save you some head ache later.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I believe I figured out the angle of the motor. In addition to pointing right, its front face is angled up. (The rear suspension is fully articulated as it sits, so determining "level" is tricky.) Meaning the transmission is also angled up and the driveshaft points down more. If I correct that vertical angle, the bellhousing will drop down and gain some clearance; possibly enough to pull the motor straight (to the driver's side). It looks like the PO built the motor mount too high and had to correct. So, as soon as I get a right side motor mount, I'll be seeing what I can do to improve that via a new overall mount.

I think the previous two replies didn't read up through page 3. 



onegreenev said:


> Generally speaking the small motor and controller for a heavy vehicle may not be what you really want. Even if you have an around town vehicle you still want it to get out of its own way rather spritely.


Well, 1) it's not a particularly heavy vehicle at 2500 lbs stock, and 2) without data points (e.g., acceleration), it's tough to say what anyone will or will not be happy with. I'm after functional here. If it can perform as well or better than the little truck's 2.3L 4-cyl did 34 years ago, I'll be satisfied with it as at least a starting point. My sense is, people only view it as under-powered now that there are better options, but back around 2010 when it was near the top of the heap, I haven't run across many complaints.



> Minimum of a Warp 9 Motor and at minimum 650 amps or better. A good GE 9" motor would work well too. With a 9" motor and the Curtis and at least 144v you should be OK for a nice around the town car and a quick jump on the freeway if needed too.


Does the Curtis controller being limited to 500A change that at all? If I could upgrade the motor later and have the controller handle something more powerful, that gives me several paths. But, the Curtis and ADM seem pretty closely matched.



> If you just want an NEV and never see the freeway or 45mph just purchase an NEV and you'd be golden.


I wasn't familiar with that acronym, but I see it stands for Neighborhood Electric Vehicle. I have no interest in purchasing a production EV. I despise new cars, honestly. I like older stuff that can be wrenched on.



> That looks rather messy in this conversion you are showing... You can do it but I would not spend much. $500 maybe. There will be lots of work getting it looking good and running good.


Definitely messy, but my only concern is figuring out where the PO left off. Looking good is just a matter of sorting that out and tidying everything up. Running good is no more difficult than starting a conversion from scratch. So, I don't see either of those being a negative. As for price, I already spent $750 on it. 



Thang Nguyen said:


> if you want to convert an ICE to EV, consider your labors, time and money you invested in the car (it going to take everything a lots from you), you should get a nice sound body with out any dent or rusted, make sure all the papers are corrected and legitimately. As to me I would take everything out and start it over, that’s way you know everything where they are, save you some head ache later.


Again, wrenching on it is what I want to do. That's not a detrimental thing to account for. The body is near perfect, and there's no rust issues. Just the usual light surface rust on the frame that I'll address. The title application was accepted today, and the paperwork was already verified to be in good order by DMV.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

My motor mount is 3 pieces of 2x2 square tube with a big sheet metal clamp and a hole for the motor hoist bolt to stop torque twist. I will try to get a picture. Sounds like you're missing the rear trans mount or it's in the wrong place. It moves and the proper holes are there just drill out the rivets. Could have been a slush box trans. Don't see the clutch slave but I see the reservoir and it appears the line is not the plastic factory crap . Hmmm.

If the brakes engage, the longer pushrod is installed, but they come with the rebuild kits from bendix which are still around. You will see significant pedal slop if it isnt there. Pedal length was the same, at least on my parts car for my tranny swap. Don't know how to rebuild a severly corroded and pitted master cylinder which is why I had to do power boosted. Missing the balance block which tells you you have a leak somewhere.

God what a harness hack. Oh I am sorry there.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> My motor mount is 3 pieces of 2x2 square tube with a big sheet metal clamp and a hole for the motor hoist bolt to stop torque twist. I will try to get a picture.


Thanks, definitely interested in seeing how other people have done mounts for the same engine bay. I saw a FWD installation of the same motor, where they had rotated it 90 degrees so the label and B- terminals faced up. That made it so the two front face bolts were up top horizontally, instead of down one side vertically like mine. That seems better for both minimizing how much mount is needed to wrap around the face, and for side-to-side support.



> Sounds like you're missing the rear trans mount or it's in the wrong place. It moves and the proper holes are there just drill out the rivets. Could have been a slush box trans. Don't see the clutch slave but I see the reservoir and it appears the line is not the plastic factory crap . Hmmm.


It's all there (and an original "M" trans per the VIN sticker). The tranny mount, aka rear motor mount, is just a single pivot point when the engine isn't mounted. So, with the motor mounted too high, there's nothing keeping the tranny's position locked in level. It's a weird looking MC setup, with a remote reservoir up high (drained, cap missing), feeding down to a tiny little cylinder on the firewall, lined up with the clutch pedal's linkage.



> If the brakes engage, the longer pushrod is installed, but they come with the rebuild kits from bendix which are still around. You will see significant pedal slop if it isnt there. Pedal length was the same, at least on my parts car for my tranny swap. Don't know how to rebuild a severly corroded and pitted master cylinder which is why I had to do power boosted. Missing the balance block which tells you you have a leak somewhere.


I'm surprised pedal length would be the same. The stuff I found on the Ranger forums all said the manual booster's pedal is longer for the extra leverage needed.

When I was under the truck the other day, getting the remaining fuel pump brackets out of there, I couldn't see any brake lines running to the front wheels. But, I also couldn't see any empty brake line terminations, so maybe the space is just too tight to see where they're run with the wheels on. I should jack up a corner and take another look before assuming they're not connected. I didn't want to sit on that nasty seat to test the pedal.  It's out and cleaned up now (badly in need of a new cover at least, and possibly a re-foam; would be cheaper to just replace it if I find a good one), the water-soaked rubber mat and its jute padding are in the trash, and I've got about half the cab sound deadening scraped out. That stuff just traps the water in when it cracks like a dry lake bed. Fortunately, there's virtually no rust underneath it. I figure there won't be a whole lot of road noise for low speed ICE-less driving, and significantly less heat without the exhaust. At ~50% removed, it's just under 6 lbs.

Edit: From a better viewing angle with the bumper off, it's just the left front brake line that's missing. It should run from the free end in the first pic, to the spring bracket, then to the wheel. That whole stretch is empty. I wondered what that open spot was for on the spring bracket!



> God what a harness hack. Oh I am sorry there.


No need to apologize, unless you're sorry for me having to deal with it! I'm actually itching to open up the engine wiring loom and start pulling out everything unnecessary. (Need to look up a PCM pinout chart for it; I'm guessing there's nothing for the PCM to do de-ICED that would require its presence.) It's just so wet out right now... I got lucky with a 2-day break in the weather when the truck was ready to pick up. I suppose I could just unbolt the controller and move it out of the rain. I don't like how exposed it is up front with a radiator-less grille, and how it's mounting platform is a box that looks like it's trap water.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Fri was a rough day of getting absolutely dumped on, but some decent cleanup progress to show...

I spent some time unwrapping the engine harness, figuring it would be easiest to pass that side through to the cabin. But, accessing the firewall grommet without removing the blower box proved very difficult (removing the fender liner probably would have helped), so I switched to the cab side only to discover: a) the EEC-IV harness was already disconnected (likely answering my question about whether the computer retains any functionality once de-ICED), and b) the connector actually does fit through the firewall's oval cutout. Doh.

Once I do the same on the driver's side, the mess of wiring in the engine bay won't look nearly so bad.










It probably wasn't wasted effort unwrapping the wiring bundle, though, as I think the yellow wire to the starter solenoid is the always-hot line needed for the ignition circuit, so I'll need to separate that out and re-run it if I want the key to do anything as far as activating the main contactor. Although, it has four wires branching off it, each with their own inline fuse, and I don't like leaving clipped hot wires around, so just running a new, single line may be best.

I also tackled the fender, and boy did it fight me. Broke one speed clip and had to remove several of the fender liner screws with vice grips. Ranger Q&A's tend to be lacking on specifying what Gen they're referring to, so my info may have been bad that the bumper doesn't have to come off... And, kudos to whomever decided the bumper should be held on by carriage bolts that strip out their square holes before releasing the backside nuts. Definitely will be moving forward with a custom bumper after getting rather militant with it. The fender isn't perfect (because amateur body man), but it looks a lot better now.










If I can find a set of small black alloys, it would look surprisingly sharp, me thinks. The weather looks like it may cooperate this week, so hunting for missing parts will hopefully commence soon.

I started looking around for calculating speed, power needed, range, etc. It looks like the theoretical power output would be 144V x 500A / 746 = 97 HP if maxing out the controller, less maybe 15% for efficiency. That puts is pretty close to the 79 HP stock (latest figure I found), and places an emphasis on keeping the weight close to stock. I need to read up on that more, but I see the potential for it being under-powered if that's the maximum capacity of the controller and motor.

With all the cab sound deadening removed (except the stuff on the firewall, which requires dash removal to get to, and just more adhesive scraping left to do, it weighed in at just over 10 lbs. I was hoping for closer to 15, but everything contributes! That gets me pretty close to the goal of de-funking the interior to the point I don't mind working in there to unravel the wiring situation. At that point, it might be best to wrap up this pre-conversion thread and start a new one for an actual build thread?


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Okay, so I went through the calculations from this thread and made a spreadsheet so it's easier to make tweaks on the fly. (If it would be helpful to others, I could share the underlying spreadsheet ... assuming .xls or .ods attachments are allowed.) See the attached PDF screenshot.

The one thing I couldn't figure out is where 5252 comes from in step 6. It seems to be a constant, but I found no references elsewhere to what it represents.

I couldn't find drag coefficient or frontal surface area figures for '88 Rangers, so I used the closest approximations, and put in the slightly taller tires that are on it currently. That will change, but it's a starting point. I think I'll be under 2800 lbs completed (2600-2700 is my goal), but a conservative number is probably best, and at the very least, that'll make it more accurate since it includes my body weight.

The main takeaway, assuming I got all the numbers right, is the 28.4 HP continuous and 39.2 HP peak needed for 0-50 mph acceleration in 15 seconds. That's within the current motor's 28.5 HP continuous & 48.8 HP for 5 min threshold, which is better than I expected when figuring a 20 sec baseline.

I've yet to find a torque spec for the FB1-4001A motor, other than this page that says 100 lb-ft but has the HP rating wrong, so I'm not really sure what to make of sections 6 & 7.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Torque is acceleration. HP is speed...

You don't care about acceleration in a truck. You want HP needed to climb a grade at rated weight (add trailer and stuff going to the dump if that's its mission) at speed with your aero and rolling resistance factored in.

Acceleration is what it is.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I'm viewing this as a small car (it weighs only 100 lbs more than a typical Miata) that happens to be well designed for battery packaging, not a truck for hauling. My biggest concern is actually making it fun to drive -- my image is the chase scene at the end of T2 ... "This is the vehicle's top speed," ... "I can get out and run faster than this!" -- but I have a few ideas for that, from mild to wild.

The reason(s) I mentioned HP is that's what @kennybobby 's calculations pulled together in step 4, it's something I could compare directly to the FB1-4001A motor's specs, it speaks to the concerns people have raised that it may be under-powered (a 15 sec 0-50 mph time isn't fast, but seems adequate as at least a starting point), and I don't have any torque specs to compare those figures.

Or, did I get it wrong and those HP figures in step 4 are the HP needed to sustain that 50 mph speed? I don't think so, as: a) it factors in acceleration power needed, and b) Peak HP implies not just the continuous power to maintain speed.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Pretty sure you don't want to go above 80 with anything behind the cab, weight wise unless you're running stiff wide tires with small sidewalls.. It has the handling characteristics of a box truck on a windy day. If you do a pisspot load of handling mods..........

round numbers, at 65mph im using about 52hp freeway, flat level but it's still a Kostov (not noted for their hiperformance. Ees goot Bulgarian motor today all long.)
you can fake torque with gearing, but redline is say 6000 and it's a hard redline unless you run out of voltage first, and you will below 300 volts. Something like the comm explodes or the windings grenade, not an issue with A/c stators.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

With 30hp it's going to be as fun to drive as a golf cart, imo. Fun has to be paid for.

My Bolt EV, considered to be a "lame" EV, has 200HP and it's "fun to drive", until it starts to run out of torque at around 35-40mph (it'll pace a BMW M3 from a stop to about 35mph). It also uses about 20kW (your 28hp) continuous at 55mph on "flats" (very very modest rises in Interstate 5 as it runs alongside the Columbia River), weighing 3400lb iirc.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Pretty sure you don't want to go above 80 with anything behind the cab, weight wise unless you're running stiff wide tires with small sidewalls.. It has the handling characteristics of a box truck on a windy day. If you do a pisspot load of handling mods..........


I originally extended the chart out to 70 mph and decided just getting to highway speed would be plenty ambitious! I've driven a 3rd Gen Ranger a tiny bit and it felt like a poorly fitting shoe. That's the part I hope to address -- the fit, comfort, feedback, agility -- not the corner hugging or tire squealing type of stuff. My driving habits have mellowed quite a bit.



> round numbers, at 65mph im using about 52hp freeway, flat level but it's still a Kostov (not noted for their hiperformance. Ees goot Bulgarian motor today all long.)
> you can fake torque with gearing, but redline is say 6000 and it's a hard redline unless you run out of voltage first, and you will below 300 volts. Something like the comm explodes or the windings grenade, not an issue with A/c stators.


52 HP is higher than I would have expected. That's concerning, as it would be slightly above the 5 min rating of the ADM motor ... just to maintain highway speed. Uphill would obviously be quite a struggle.



remy_martian said:


> With 30hp it's going to be as fun to drive as a golf cart, imo. Fun has to be paid for.


You are the ultimate wet blanket.  But, reality checks are important before getting too invested... Golf cart, huh? I don't like golf, or how that sounds.



> My Bolt EV, considered to be a "lame" EV, has 200HP and it's "fun to drive", until it starts to run out of torque at around 35-40mph (it'll pace a BMW M3 from a stop to about 35mph). It also uses about 20kW (your 28hp) continuous at 55mph on "flats" (very very modest rises in Interstate 5 as it runs alongside the Columbia River), weighing 3400lb iirc.


How is it running out of torque so early? Is that a byproduct of direct drive and selecting gear ratios for acceleration more than top speed? It has 266 lb-ft of torque, which sounds like more than enough to keep pushing, but this page lists that as max torque ... and also says the 200 HP is a max figure, although I couldn't find that verified elsewhere ... so I'm again wondering if production EVs are playing by the same _continuous_ standard for ratings?

Like piotrsko's 52 HP figure, your 28 HP equivalent one begs questions of whether the ADM would be maxed out at that point. Y'all giving me a lot to think about!

Other than a couple stretches through Wilsonville, Portland, Vancouver, and Olympia, I-5 is pretty darn flat from Canada to California! I guess it climbs to 3000' or whatever in Southern Oregon, but it's so gradual it's barely noticeable. Or did you mean I-84 alongside the Columbia?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

No. Southwest Washington. It's more or less flat, though there are some small inclines (not really hills) that ask for a smidge more power on autopilot (if He can call cruise control that, I can).

I was running 55 a couple of days ago to make it to the charging station in N Vancouver (going from 65 to 55 extended my range by about 2 miles over around 20 miles) and I was observing (got bored running 15 under the limit) what the smallest motor would be in that car to maintain 55mph in that stretch (Longview to Battleground). 20kW. In Southern Oregon on I5, it'll likely be around 50-60kw, lol and 30-40kW regen on the way down north of Shasta.

The torque need goes up with speed because aero subtracts off the available acceleration force with the square of speed...a motor's torque curve is flat until you bump into back emf. This is why the Bolt will shred tires from a stop but is just ok on the highway at 65.

What's EV fun at 0-30 is ordinary at 30-60 is meh at 60-90 (or so I'm told 😈). The Bolt is the MINIMUM spec car that weight I would build that's fun to drive in the city. 150kW. The C5 'vette EV build (doing electronics right now in the middle of a parts shortage) looks like it'll be around 400kW, with not much more top speed than the Bolt (don't need it) and hopefully a couple hundred pounds lighter....geared for acceleration out of mountain twisties here where I live. Pulling a G in turns, in straights, and stopping.

These days you can make a pickup handle better than a 1960's Corvette. The problem with a Ranger or S10 standard cab is you can't scoot the seat back or ghetto-recline it, which is why all my trucks were/are extended cabs....I think you're doomed there.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The problem with a Ranger or S10 standard cab is you can't scoot the seat back or ghetto-recline it, which is why all my trucks were/are extended cabs....I think you're doomed there.


That's definitely one of my concerns. I'll put the bench back in at some point and throw something over it to do a test sit. At a proportional 5'9", I'm hoping all the way back is further back than needed. I'd like to put in bucket seats and have a proper headrest, if I pass that test ... just gotta drill out the dimples for the extra set of rail holes, and weld on threaded backing plates down below. But, I've got some ideas that could still alleviate the problem if there's insufficient adjustment...


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I did some work on the wiring today, and mostly unraveled the mystery of what all the PO had done. As I started peeling away the layers, I found this tucked up under the dash:










It tied into nearly everything: steering column, stereo, left turn signal, hood plunger and light/sensor thingy on firewall, dr's door lock remote actuator, canopy 3rd brake light, etc. I also found three more toggle switches mounted on the underside of the dash, and the ignition cylinder's path is interrupted, so it looks like it was set up to be run without a key. That added panel is the control center of sorts. I was able to eliminate all but two of the items (still TBD), but I wouldn't be surprised if other stuff has been bypassed once I start testing with 12V battery power.

Oddly, though, a lot of it just sort of looped back to itself or connected to nothing, like those red connectors in front of the brake pedal. Maybe there was more to it at some point.

The LCD panel that was bolted to the top of the dash has no interaction with that cluster **** of a panel. It has 4 wires (red/white/blue/black) that go straight to the controller. What I don't understand is what purpose they could serve since they all merge: blue & black merge into a new red, white becomes new black, and both new wires go to B- on controller (two spots on bridged connection). The original red from the LCD has a big ring terminal and isn't connected to anything, but the ring terminal had stuff wrapped to it at some point.

It looks like the change in colors where they merge is because the originals were too short to reach the controller up by the radiator. If moving the controller above the motor, as planned, that wouldn't be an issue. I wonder if the merging of the wires at that point was just sloppiness?



















Does anyone recognize that? I couldn't find anything searching for the various numbers on the back. The momentary switch is presumably for toggling between display modes, but surely it should be doing more than just reading B- on three of the inputs.

I removed the LCD from that angle iron mount, disassembled the ridiculous old Realistic head unit (it's actually built into the face plate / mounting panel via the shafts for its two knobs), and lined them up. Shaving a mm or less will make the LCD panel fit perfectly into the stereo's space, so there's potential there for a much cleaner mount if it's something worth preserving.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Comments: aero on the "88 sucks. I jokingly call it a brick. Son who is 6'3 barely fits in my standard cab with XLT fluffy seats, me at 5-11 is cramped.

Power up the lcd and see what it displays. I suspect voltage, but If you fry it, no real loss. It has the four comm points to reprogram it, so I am guessing it's just a display. Looks.like the common displays from 10 years ago from the smart voltage meter place.

South of Medford is a mountain pass with a lot of 6% grades up and down. There's a charger station at the rest stop on the Klamath (?) For a reason and one in every city between. I doubt you'll ever need it, mostly because you cant get there.

Your motor will tolerate a lot more abuse than the manufacturer will allow, but it's life will get shortened.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Rather than start a new thread, I re-titled this one (wasn't sure the software would let me do that) to be more representative of where things stand.

Laundry list of updates for the week: I got a new front left brake line, replaced the missing banjo bolt and shock tower junction clip, found a same style hard line along the frame rail (the one disconnected in the pre-purchase pics ... all the Rangers I looked at in the yards were power brakes and had a different setup, but oddly, two Bronco II's with power brakes had the same kind and one wasn't rusted solid) to replace what turned out to be stripped flare nuts at both ends, chopped out the controller mount, removed the motor mount (debating between solid and soft) and found that the tranny does indeed have firewall clearance to sit straight when the motor is lowered almost to the crossmember, tore down the bench seat and rebuilt the busted suspension, cleaned it up and started on a re-upholstery project, removed the bed battery tray and all the wiring between it and the motor, got a new door lock set and filled in the missing rod clip and cylinder retainer u-clip, cleaned out the fixed cowl and enlarged the right side drain bigger (which resulted in more rain leakage into the footwells; the trapped mud must have been acting as a partial seal), found a clutch MC cap (even though the clutch is omitted and the SC line is clipped by the tranny, it bugs me having an open reservoir) ... and got a stylin' set of wheels and tires that are too tall for use, but sure look a lot better, hold air, and give me 2.5-3" more clearance to work underneath!



















Wow, talk about immediate satisfaction transformations.

Motor mounting pieces removed, so it could be dropped as low as possible to get it and the transmission pointed straight ahead:










The rear diff isn't centered on the axle, so even with the motor and tranny straightened, there's still a bit of an angle. The way it was before, with the motor pointing toward the passenger side, the transmission's tail was pointed to the driver's side and made the driveshaft angle much sharper.

Before:










After:










The motor is still pointed up after dropping it within 1/2" of the crossmember. But...if going solid mount, I'll need to do a solid mount for the transmission, which would allow me to raise it up and get the two more level.










I verified that the truck itself is leveled well with the block under the rear right tire accounting for the driveway slope; the floor pan seemed like the best spot to check:










A nearby twig proved to be the perfect spacer. We'll see if I can bring the tranny up that much without recreating clearance issues...










I figured it's time to take my prep work to the bed area:










Removing frame rivets in back sure was fun. In the past, I've just drilled them out, which takes forever. I tried a recommendation this time, of cutting the heads several times with an angle grinder cut-off wheel, then chiseling the remainder of the head off and hammering it through the other side. That worked reasonably well, but after a few hours of that on the first side, I realized for the next day I should use the air hammer and save myself a ton of grief.

Surprisingly, that still didn't do much on the vertical rivets. (The horizontal ones pop out easily. The vertical ones are basically bonded in place, probably from frame compression over the years.) I had to drill their remaining shaft out to the point I could chisel off the backside head, then finally pound them through. Seven still to go... The rear crossmember (presumably just a shield between the fuel tank and bumper) is totally free, the front-facing rear shock is two-thirds free (will be positioned rearward for battery tray room, and probably supplemented by torsion bars), and the next crossmember up that combines with the foremost leaf spring brackets is halfway home. I'm putting bolts in place of the rivets, to preserve alignment as I work through them, until adding new structure for whatever shape the battery tray takes.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I hooked up the mystery LCD panel to a spare 12V battery, connecting the red wire to pos and the joined white/blue/black to neg, and it lit up with: The CycleAnalyst v2.11 ... an actual product! I was able to cycle through the settings menus with the toggle button.






V2 Cycle Analyst Info Page


Official webpage for the V2 Cycle Analyst




ebikes.ca





The v3 series is much more capable, but doesn't seem to share the general EV applicability of v2:






V3 Cycle Analyst Info Page


Official webpage for the V3 Cycle Analyst




ebikes.ca





I'll need to read through all the documentation to see if it's worth retaining.

Oh, and I hit the limit for photos on the last post, so here's the up-to-date interior shot:











I may still go with bucket seats, or the '89-92 standard cab 60/40 bench if I can find one, so I'm not sewing in the new leather just yet, but at least I've got something clean and comfortable to sit on finally. (My seating position has the bench almost all the way back. When I first put it in without the seat back, I thought middle of the range was going to be the spot, but that made me sit much more upright in test fitting. Not much space for a headrest between the glass and my noggin', unfortunately.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I looked up the prev-prev owner -- the one who presumably did the initial conversion work -- to see about maybe getting in touch with him and getting a sense of the direction he was going with stuff, only to discover that he passed away five years ago. Unless someone else in town shares the same first, middle, and last names, and was old enough (70s or 80s) to be a retired electrician. Well, I hope he was looking forward to someone else carrying on his project. I suppose that explains the cigarettes and ash everywhere...

The frame got pressure washed and ~two-thirds coated with Rust Reformer. It cleaned up nice, as expected.



















Pulling the dash and HVAC ducting, I was rather shocked to see that there's absolutely nothing resembling a crash bar back there. No wonder it's only a 2500 lb truck. It's basically a tin can up top. I'm trying to come up with a way of running a slimmed down ductwork, doing away with the heating coil space and recirc option, as well as the different vent positions, but nothing good has materialized. I'd like to leave the dash very minimal, but getting fresh air on the windows is essential for dealing with Oregon humidity, so the blower is needed (can't rely on just pushing air in from the grille when moving), which means the leaf-clogging cowl intake is needed on the interior side of the firewall.










At the top left of the passenger footwell there, is the fuel pump inertia switch. I hope to repurpose that as a battery disconnect.

I got the parking brake working. It turned out to be a seized pawl pivot, and return spring that needed exercising once freed, keeping it from catching on the teeth when the pedal was pressed. Good thing, because the "equalizer" adjustment in back is totally seized, so I'll probably have to replace the cable runs if I ever need to take up slack.

The brakes have crazy good pedal feel now. I filled up the front left first, since it had been disconnected for who knows how long and probably had dust or worse to flush. Once the fluid started flowing, I became undecided whether the PO had put brake fluid or mud in the system! Sheesh. Once that corner looked good, I moved to the others and followed the usual far-to-close order -- the rears are comically easy to bleed with the bed removed -- and finished with the front left again for good measure. It took nearly a quart and a half; good thing I picked up two quarts. Unfortunately, I may have to do it again before long, as the MC reservoir's plastic is a bit crumbly around the edges (appears they can only be purchased together), and I got a little muddy fluid leak inside the cab, dribbling down the pushrod, meaning its seal is probably on the way out.

Lighting all works now, front and rear. Replacing the finicky headlight switch and getting things properly grounded did the trick, after much fussing with bulbs, sockets, connectors, and wiring. Go figure. I still need to get the wipers working (and find the right size wiper arms), and retest the HVAC blower after resolving some things.

My pack of hockey pucks arrived today. I'm leaning back toward semi-soft motor mounts, using the stock base(s) and a puck, but I've been unable to locate a passenger side mounting bracket. '88 apparently switched to a different style. Yay. I _think_ other styles are compatible with the crossmember, but haven't yet been able to confirm if that's true of the various engines, years, and 4x2 vs 4x4.










The rear bumper dropped 27 lbs (47 lb 10 oz, 49 lb 5 oz w/ hitch ball, to 20 lb 11 oz as just a shell), removing the tow ball plate and angle iron supports, allowing it to be test fitted snug up against the frame rails, and in preparation for the structure back there coming from a beefy hitch receiver. I estimated 45-50 lbs lifting it off. I've still got it. 



















I found that the leaf springs are asymmetric and can be flipped around to make for a shorter overhang behind the axle. It's "only" 12 more rivets to drill out...then I can relocate the hangers. I'm contemplating a flat bed setup, although it sure does look good from the sides with the stock bed. Chopping the rear bumper's underlying structure shortened it 8" when placed directly on the frame. I'm digging this look, as impractical as it may be. Then again, how practical is a 6' bed? Anything between 4' and 8' really doesn't make any sense, and I've got a trailer for that purpose.

The front bumper then got some attention, reshaping it closer to original, filling gouges from cutting the spinning carriage bolts out, turning their square holes into round ones (proud to say, I nailed the spacing of the tow bar brackets, bumper, back plate, and frame, with no wiggle room in the holes), filling in the gnarly cutouts for the tow bar bracket structure, trimming an unnecessary 1/2" or so off the bottom where it curves rearward, and repositioning the tow bar brackets to line up with the frame horns instead of being mounted below them. A thick plate runs the full width of the frame behind them, but that complicates the alignment of the upper mounting points, so that still needs attention.



















I picked up a DC-DC converter (96-144V), so there's one EV item crossed off the checklist... (The current plan is to move forward with the ADM/Curtis setup and hopefully, it proves adequately powered. I figure the truck is sitting at ~1900 lbs right now.) I also located an '89 factory wiring book, which certainly helps with troubleshooting but is a bit frustrating in that: a) '89 got a bit of a facelift, and b) Ford seems to have used different wiring colors on every other vehicle that rolled down the assembly line.

I've probably forgotten something, but that's a pretty full update for now.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Comments: '88 seems to be a changeover year, so some parts interchange with earlier, some are later, but no mention in any of my references about needing serial numbers like in my F250. My understanding is it should all fit close enough.

The right front disc cylinder captures air, takes forever to bleed and you get a weird pedal feel until it's correct. Reman master kits come with a new plastic reservoir that just pulls off. Theoretically you wouldn't need to rebleed.

The shocks were staggered because the axle has a bad tendency to wind up. Either some sort of pinion snubber or traction bar is useful to not fatigue break springs. Thicker leaf has the same effect as would a helper.

Hope you are shorter than 5'11. Then you can use the highback buckets from the extended cab but they won't recline.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Comments: '88 seems to be a changeover year, so some parts interchange with earlier, some are later...


I've even seen some Ranger forum threads where people refer to 1st Gen as '83-88 only, not the usual '83-92. But, it makes me feel better when people in those threads say '88 was the best year for Rangers, so I didn't choose poorly...

One thing I've discovered with backtracking someone's removal work is, I'm rather dependent on finding documentation of what was removed, and that's very hit or miss. For example, I've yet to find a picture of the transmission harness or where it connects on the left inner fender. (Backup lights won't work without it. I'm guessing that's why the PO had a button strapped to the shift lever.) I know what size and shape connector it should have, but it isn't shown anywhere, nothing I have matches, I see nothing leftover from something relevant having been removed, and I can't even find any used ones on eBay to compare.



> The right front disc cylinder captures air, takes forever to bleed and you get a weird pedal feel until it's correct.


Can't say I had any problem with that. I used a one-person gravity bleeder and just crawled in and out from under the truck, pumping the pedal 6-10 times, filling the reservoir, checking for clear fluid and no bubbles, draining the small bottle before it overfills and sprays fluid everywhere, repeat... After a while, it sort of bleeds itself if you keep the bottle up high enough so that the tube has no downturns or level spots.

The pedal is rock hard. I can't remember if either of my first two cars ('79 Accord and '86 Camry) had manual brakes -- I think the first might have, but nothing worked well enough on it to get up to a speed that necessitated much braking -- but the difference in pedal feel between the Ranger now and any power brake vehicle I've owned the past 30 years is dramatic. Like, they may just immediately lock up the tires with no modulation. 



> Reman master kits come with a new plastic reservoir that just pulls off. Theoretically you wouldn't need to rebleed.


Oh, it's just a press fit with a seal? Interesting. Someone ought to sell just the reservoir then. I'll keep looking. (Of course, if the pushrod seal is going bad -- there was a hint of fresh fluid leakage yesterday -- that's a moot point.) How would you replace the MC and/or reservoir without re-bleeding? Removing either would introduce air into the system below the fluid level, no?



> The shocks were staggered because the axle has a bad tendency to wind up. Either some sort of pinion snubber or traction bar is useful to not fatigue break springs. Thicker leaf has the same effect as would a helper.


Ooh, I hadn't run across that last part. I was thinking of putting on F150 leafs to account for the battery pack weight; just need to verify that they do indeed mount up the same. But, I wasn't aware that doing so would eliminate the need for the planned torsion bars. I know the leaf spring locates the axle, so that makes sense.



> Hope you are shorter than 5'11. Then you can use the highback buckets from the extended cab but they won't recline.


There are times in life when being extremely average sized (5'9") comes in handy.  A bucket that doesn't recline seems like a bit of a compromise, but I would definitely like something between my head and the back glass, so that's bound to be an improvement. One of my possible to-do items is replacing the glass with Lexan, but I need to get a measurement of its thickness to see if I can match that and not have a gasket seepage issue.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

When I worked at GM, I noticed that the machine that filled the brake fluid reservoir at the filler neck pulled a vacuum on the system before the fill. This was before ABS brakes...

So, yeah...assemblers weren't walking with the trucks, as they moved down the line, with jars & hoses at each wheel looking for bubbles 😂


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> When I worked at GM...


Wait, so _you_ killed the EV1?! 



> I noticed that the machine that filled the brake fluid reservoir at the filler neck pulled a vacuum on the system before the fill. This was before ABS brakes...
> 
> So, yeah...assemblers weren't walking with the trucks, as they moved down the line, with jars & hoses at each wheel looking for bubbles 😂


Sure, but there are also good vacuum bleeders that can be used at each corner. Many ways to approach it, with some more suitable than others. I'm not familiar with how the factory fills brake systems, but I would guess whatever method they use is both prohibitively expensive and space consuming, for personal use.

For the system you described, was there some special means of pouring the fluid in, that held vacuum and didn't reintroduce air?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The EV1 was an R&D project that included a field trial. The lease contract _required_ the vehicles to be returned because it fell into the R&D writeoff column of the beancounters & IRS. Nobody "killed" it, it was a couple of Hollyweirdos that got all whiny about keeping something they were obligated to return. Being R&D, it was not a product that could be resold, though I feel they should have been able to put a few more into museums. Funny how almost nobody knows about the electric Rangers that came out in the same timeframe, isn't it?

You asked about bleeding the MC without redoing the lines. You can use the vaccum setup @windraver used as long as brake fluid doesn't attack the pieces that contact fluid. Can probably modify a reservoir cap to take a fitting barb, or resin 3d print a one piece if you have such access (you can get it made)....again, brake fluid tolerant materials.

Seems easier just to do the master and all 4 corners over again, though...


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The EV1 was an R&D project that included a field trial. The lease contract _required_ the vehicles to be returned because it fell into the R&D writeoff column of the beancounters & IRS. Nobody "killed" it...


Yeah, I know the story. Just giving you a little ribbing; trying to get you to lighten up a bit so you don't scare off all the newbies. 



> Funny how almost nobody knows about the electric Rangers that came out in the same timeframe, isn't it?


I had never heard of them until I started in on this project.



> You asked about bleeding the MC without redoing the lines. You can use the vaccum setup @windraver used as long as brake fluid doesn't attack the pieces that contact fluid. Can probably modify a reservoir cap to take a fitting barb, or resin 3d print a one piece if you have such access (you can get it made)....again, brake fluid tolerant materials.
> 
> Seems easier just to do the master and all 4 corners over again, though...


I think I see where you're going with that. Maybe two barbs on the cap, one to pull/hold vacuum and the other to pour fluid in? Seems it would need a breather check valve, too, to allow the fluid to flow.

I'm not against re-bleeding, though. $10-15 for fluid and a not too difficult job ... and perhaps worth a second flush with how nasty the old fluid was, anyway. It's not like I'm in a rush to finish off any single stage of this build.

I got a line on a bunch of the remaining needed parts, as well as some '88 shop manuals, so I should be making a small road trip in the coming days to burn a painful amount of gas and remind myself why I'm building an EV. Not that it will likely have the needed range for such a trip.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Ford was special order building FLA powered ev rangers at the rate of 10,000 @year from about 1985 to 2013 and could be still. ( a wiki says 1990-2000) They are out there, batteries dead, typically parked in governmental back storage yards like the monster one out of Ridgecrest. Right after I converted, I had a chance to buy a 2000 for salvage value of about $1000 plus transport. Fyi, they lock up and are unmoveable with dead traction batteries. Dont hire a turbaned/Sikh transport company to get your surplus out of a government surplus yard.

The rear window should be an I gasket. IIRC, you have to spread the gasket to fit the window thickness then the trim strip locks the window in.place. obsolete ford, some internet window place and west coast metric used to have rolls of the seal to buy by the foot. the stupid back 3 rd taillight is noted for leaking like a sieve and my sliders are about 1/8" thick.

Now that I have a working phone, I should be able to take pictures and post them. Speaking of which, your dash looks different.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Odd random thoughts. The only electrical connector I know of for the trans is basically a park neutral and solenoid power 8 pin connector just aft of the shifter. Same unit for auto trans or manual, seperate one for the borg warner 13-40 series 4wd hi low to run the dash light... Just dangles in the hump at pick-a-part. Don't remember if it uses bullet or spade crimps but definitely home modifies

Bleeding the master would be done with the reservoir on the unit. Throw vacuum on the reservoir and out comes the air through the reservoir fluid. 
Hmmm wonder if that would work on the #&£©%%€ clutch master.


Fluid seepage on the firewall means it is time for a full set new master set of seals, aka rebuild.

The f150 and the ranger are both rated 1/2ton so pretty much the same spring set, except for possibly length and arch, but I'd bet they swap one for one.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Fyi, they lock up and are unmoveable with dead traction batteries.


That sounds like a great immobilizer!



> The rear window should be an I gasket. IIRC, you have to spread the gasket to fit the window thickness then the trim strip locks the window in.place. obsolete ford, some internet window place and west coast metric used to have rolls of the seal to buy by the foot. the stupid back 3 rd taillight is noted for leaking like a sieve and my sliders are about 1/8" thick.


1/8" would probably be matchable with lexan/acrylic. I've read that the gaskets are held in by butyl tape, which is what makes them so difficult to work free ... and I guess why they're difficult to reseal unless you use the same stuff. I think only the later ones used the trim strip that screws over the gasket. Also, mine has no center brake light, but other '88s I've seen do. '88 really was a strange transition year in a lot of ways.



> Now that I have a working phone, I should be able to take pictures and post them. Speaking of which, your dash looks different.


Yours is an '89, right? It got a different dash with the facelift.



piotrsko said:


> Odd random thoughts. The only electrical connector I know of for the trans is basically a park neutral and solenoid power 8 pin connector just aft of the shifter. Same unit for auto trans or manual, seperate one for the borg warner 13-40 series 4wd hi low to run the dash light... Just dangles in the hump at pick-a-part. Don't remember if it uses bullet or spade crimps but definitely home modifies


I believe there are two of them. One goes to the left side and is the backup light circuit. The other goes to the right side and is the neutral switch, whatever that does.






automatic to manual transmission - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Drivetrain Tech - automatic to manual transmission - Has anyone out there converted their automatic ranger to a manual? How hard was it/ would you do it again? I'm thinking about doing it to mine. But havn't decided yet.



www.ranger-forums.com





"From 1983 to ~2002 all Ranger wiring harnesses were for m/t's, and the clutch pedal switch bypass was added to automatics. In 2002 and up there were separate wiring harness's, manual and auto, so no bypass"






How to replace a M5OD-R1 with a M5OD-R1HD







www.therangerstation.com





"You will notice that there is no NSS (neutral sense switch) connection on the HD transmission, as there was on the R1 tranny."

I picked up a harness yesterday, but it was from a 4x4 which of course is the Mitsubishi transmission not the Mazda one... The connector looks right, but the wire colors don't. I'll set up shop in a bit and see if it matches up to my M5OD-R1. I also got the full dash harness, including that connector's other half, so I can backtrack all sorts of ignition and lighting stuff now.



> Bleeding the master would be done with the reservoir on the unit. Throw vacuum on the reservoir and out comes the air through the reservoir fluid. Fluid seepage on the firewall means it is time for a full set new master set of seals, aka rebuild.


I was thinking a bit more about that the other day. I think the gist of what you're saying is that, if you remove the old MC, the fluid in the lines is not displaced by air. (Just keep dirt from falling in them.) So, when you install the new MC, only the reservoir needs air bled from it, meaning only a tiny bit of air needs to be sucked out from the top of the lines?



> The f150 and the ranger are both rated 1/2ton so pretty much the same spring set, except for possibly length and arch, but I'd bet they swap one for one.


The length is supposedly the same, I just haven't measured yet. I thought the Ranger is rated at a quarter ton?


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Hmmm wonder if that would work on the #&£©%%€ clutch master.


Oh man, you might have just solved one of the biggest headaches for Ford truck owners!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Mount pictures

Mine is an '88 originally with an A4od now has a toyo with the 13-46 transfer case, but they all interchange. Hmmm pictures dont work. Sure as heck ain't screwing with the clutch master to find out


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Okay, so that is the same dash. Yours just has the woodgrain bezel. I picked up those same 60/40 seats yesterday, in the same blue as my interior. I was curious why '89-92 60/40 seats are listed as the ones to get for replacing early solid benches (sharing the outer rail bolt holes only) ... turns out the '88 and earlier style is actually two separate benches, mounted up like buckets. So, I need to find a source of the inner rail backing plates, or make my own.

Looking at your motor mount picture, it appears your motor has some means of bolting up to that crossbar going over the top? My ADM doesn't have that. It's got two bolts on the front face only, and then whatever adapter plate is between it and the tranny.

On a related note, I realized I was over-complicating the motor mounts. Rather than search for the missing and elusive '88 non-puck style bracket, and since I'm using hockey pucks instead of OEM soft mounts, and since I'll be building an elevated brace between them to match the height of the motor's front bolt holes, I might as well bolt the hocky pucks straight to the crossmember, then build the brace with feet to match their respective slopes. Simpler design and less metal mass.

Also in yesterday's parts pulling road trip, to the tune of ~$60 in gas: front sway bar (too late/dark to work on the brackets that are part of the shock mount; got home and checked mine and they're not present ... rear sway bar had already been pulled along with the axle), tilt steering column with much nicer st wheel (and intact ignition switch with key), wiper arms that actually fit, and HVAC controls/cables to replace my fresh air/recirc cable that doesn't hold shape well enough to move the door. A few of the pictured things I was after had already been pulled and not updated in the list of stuff gone, but it was mostly the minor items and he informed me of it in the morning before heading up. I've got the proper '88 wiring diagrams now, too.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Oh, and I felt pretty stupid... I asked the guy if there was a trick to getting the key out of the new column's ignition, and he shows me you have to press the white button on the bottom. Uh... I get home and check the old column that I, and the seller, couldn't get the key out of, or the cylinder out of the broken housing despite the release pin moving like it should, and sure enough, the key slides right out. I imagine that's what was keeping the cylinder from coming out, too. Talk about important things missing from the various online documentation (regarding cylinder removal; I had never searched for key removal).

I guess it was the right key, after all. The seller -- who operates a towing business and is likely as anyone to know such things -- thought he had grabbed the wrong key and that's why it was stuck.

I've read that it's possible to permanently disable the steering wheel lock, but people don't want to share how on the forums because it's a potential theft encouragement. I was thinking it would be handy for if bypassing the ignition circuit like the PO was setting up, and not wanting the steering wheel to lock up while driving (with no key). But, I'd rather repurpose the ignition as a contactor trigger, and still use the key. I'm thinking the inverted "u" that the white button pushes up is the important element in the lock.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Doesnt show in the picture of the mount, but there's a mormon clamp attaching the motor underneath to my u shaped 2x2 square tube and I used a 1/2-13 bolt through the mount going into the motor lift eyelet hole. Drilled a socket sized access hole through the sq tube for the mount puck nut which slides in the open end of the tube.

There's a hole where you push a 1/8 pin with the ign key "on" to pull the lock cylinder, think you take the lower cover off. Haven't bothered more with the ign key since mine matches. If someone stealing my truck figures out it is not standard, he will sit there for a full minute awaiting the precharge and other sequences to get finished before the motor turns. Flipping the key to start disables the precharge.(snicker snicker)

Being an ex tow truck driver, I like locking steering for rear bumper tow. Also makes it theft or impound proof in a parking structure parked next to a support with the wheels cranked away. They may thrash the body, but they ain't getting the car.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> There's a hole where you push a 1/8 pin with the ign key "on" to pull the lock cylinder, think you take the lower cover off.


That's the standard method on Ford lock cylinders, but it doesn't work on this one. It's either something to do with the broken side to the cylinder housing, or the key removal lock is doubling as a cylinder retainer.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Oops that was post 89 with tilt. 83 to 88 chilton says it's switch in lock position and there are 2 break off bolts you need to drill out for switch, but exactly one paragraph later you remove key guts by run position, 1/8 drill bit located at 4 oclock position 1 3/4" from outer edge of lock cylinder housing. Where that hole is on the casting I dunno. Probably on the front where you get head bashed by the dash.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> 1/8 drill bit located at 4 oclock position 1 3/4" from outer edge of lock cylinder housing.


That sounds like the instructions for removing the cylinder if you don't have the key. You drill out the little pin that would otherwise move out of the way via key action.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Oops that was post 89 with tilt. 83 to 88 chilton says it's switch in lock position and there are 2 break off bolts you need to drill out for switch, but exactly one paragraph later you remove key guts by run position, 1/8 drill bit located at 4 oclock position 1 3/4" from outer edge of lock cylinder housing. Where that hole is on the casting I dunno. Probably on the front where you get head bashed by the dash.


A Chilton's manual was part of my shop book acquisition this week, so I flipped through and saw what you're referring to. There are two entries for the ignition switch/cylinder, pg 303 and 393. 303 is for just the switch, and is the one that discusses drilling out the break-off bolts. 393 is for the cylinder and covers the usual method of depressing the retaining pin while turning the key to RUN. That's the step that doesn't work, and I'm guessing it's because of the key release lock being somehow integrated but undocumented. I just haven't tested that theory yet.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I was under the impression you turn to run before trying to insert the pin. Otoh, I'm not going to pull my key just yet, but it's on the list of stuff to do, someday, because the tumblers are worn out and I forget just which key still works.

Chiltons comes in several flavors. Some are useless for good wrenching, the green ones with the wire diagrams seem ok, but nothing like the 20 pounds of book I have for my F250


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Chiltons comes in several flavors. Some are useless for good wrenching, the green ones with the wire diagrams seem ok, but nothing like the 20 pounds of book I have for my F250


I think the 1988 Truck Shop Manual (also picked up Tue) alone weighs close to that!

My title arrived Fri, ~5 wks into the 12 wk estimate. Nice to have that mild uncertainty be resolved, given that it was apparently signed over by a guy 5 years after he passed.

Yesterday had a _maybe_ 2 hr break in the rain that afforded me a chance to get a little metalwork done. (Back to steady rain for the next 2-3 days.) I measured the max driveshaft/diff rise, if the axle were to somehow hit both bump stops simultaneously -- mostly for battery box layout -- and decided to do an angle iron permanent crossmember above the axle. That would allow me to remove the one at the leafs' front mounts (rivets previously drilled out) and have a solid box in place while working on the rearmost one.










Bit of trimming to get it fitting the contours nicely... I picked the spot with the most surface area to attach to, which also happens to be the only spot without vertical walls.










All welded up, aforementioned crossmember removed. I probably won't go any further with that piece for now, as I need to settle on a battery configuration first, but the angle iron will probably get some reinforcement as stuff is added to it. It'll become a rear mounting point for the battery boxes (straddling the driveshaft ... there's only like 2" min clearance above it when the suspension is fully compressed, but I plan to build up from the low spot in the frame, rather than having the batteries hang below it), and probably a front structure for a charger (Tesla Gen 2?).

I didn't take a picture, but I also got the right lower shock mount welded onto the axle. You can see the brake line unclipped in the above pic, so I could block it safely out of the way for cutting the mount off and applying the heat to weld it back on. That one really fought me -- would have been easier to just jack it up and take the wheel off -- and the appearance of the welds are something I'm not proud of... Definitely gonna have to do some grinding on them before they're presentable! Next up is drilling some holes to position its upper mount on the frame, close to how the left side sits.

While waiting for the rain to taper off, I did some work on the hitch / rear crossmember / bumper structure:



















I'll drill some holes at the ends of the angle iron there, for safety chains. Originally, I planned on having the main square tube get flat plates at the ends that would mount to the vertical walls of the frame, so I cut it for that width. I think I'm going to narrow it a bit, and give it angle iron ears that mount to the top and bottom of the frame. That way, it can slide past the rivets (or bolts, if I replace them) of the leafs' rear mount, as I'm not sure yet where everything will be positioned back there.

Between that and the welded-in crossmember above the axle, that rear box should be super stout.

I got a very nice aluminum heatsink for the controller, albeit one that's 2" too short:










It wouldn't accomplish much to run an aluminum plate the length of the controller, as that's what its footprint already does, and an adapter plate would just introduce more potential air gaps to slow cooling. Maybe a separate 2" long heatsink at the end of the main one? However, I had a Plan B when purchasing it...










The fans are from an old server backup drive and are a near-perfect match for the height and width of the heatsink. That seems like a good use of the 2" overhang, if I can come up with a solid way of mounting them. I assume they're the standard 12V, but I need to test that... I flipped them around, so they blow in from the outer cage (onto the fins) instead of out toward it. I also need to figure out which of the 9 pins power them. Both reds (and an optional 3rd fan) appear to share a common input, but black is a bit mysterious on the chip, and it seems like 3 sets of 3 inputs for 3 fans. But, I'll probably do away with that in actual use, in favor of a single +/- input, connected from the outside rather than the inside.

Oh, and the fins have just the right spacing to line up with the bolt holes on the bottom of the Curtis controller, allowing it to be attached from the bottom without any tricky machining of the fins.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

For a server there may be a fan failure alarm signal. 

I doubt those fans have any seals against moisture ingress so may not last very long before rust in the magnetics seizes them up. I'd think about sourcing air for it from inside the cabin if you're going to stick with those.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> For a server there may be a fan failure alarm signal.


It's 3-wire, so only the RPM sensor. (Unless it registers zero/low RPM as an alarm.) Maybe the connector was set up with other such features in mind that weren't implemented.



> I doubt those fans have any seals against moisture ingress so may not last very long before rust in the magnetics seizes them up. I'd think about sourcing air for it from inside the cabin if you're going to stick with those.


Hadn't thought of that... The cabin air just comes straight from the cowl and has no filter, so that wouldn't be much better. I thought PC fans were popular for controller heatsinks? Should I be looking at automotive fans instead?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

They might be popular, but there are a lot of cowboy builds out there. If you've ever taken these apart, you'll know what I'm talking about. Iron swells when it rusts.

If the fans are accessible, NBD to change them, I guess. Sucks to get stranded, or have to limp home due to a cooling failure though. 

The San Diego crowd gets away with all kinds of stuff because outdoors is the benign climate of your living room (except at the beach..)


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Maybe I can run a port off the blower box and get enough airflow across the heatsink from that, and just run the blower at a higher than normal setting at all times to account for that amount being siphoned off. That would at least be a reliable fan, regardless of air source.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

GassedOut said:


> I've even seen some Ranger forum threads where people refer to 1st Gen as '83-88 only, not the usual '83-92.


In the Wikipedia article, the changes for the 1989 model year are called a "major mid-cycle revision" of the first generation (which continues to 1992), and that seems reasonable to me - it appears to have been just a facelift.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> The f150 and the ranger are both rated 1/2ton so pretty much the same spring set, except for possibly length and arch, but I'd bet they swap one for one.





GassedOut said:


> The length is supposedly the same, I just haven't measured yet. I thought the Ranger is rated at a quarter ton?


"Ton" ratings are essentially meaningless. Real payload is GVWR minus curb weight; that's far more than 1000 pounds for typical current trucks informally called "half-tons", and a properly configured F-150 can carry over 2,000 pounds. The rear axle and suspension required to reach the desired payload will vary with several factors, so "1/2 ton" or "1/4 ton" is useless - you need GAWR.

It looks like a Ranger around 1988 has a Ford 7.5" axle with rear GAWR of 2750 pounds. An F-150 of the same period would have a Ford 8.8" axle, with a higher GAWR (I've seen 3,776 lbs, for example). They might coincidentally use the same width or length of leaf springs, but they're not the same axle or suspension. The extra weight of the F-150 won't account for the extra load capacity of the axles; the F-150 payload will be higher, but not double.

Compact trucks were called "1/4 tons" simply because they were smaller than typical North American full-sized "1/2 tons", not because of any axle or payload capacity. Look at the placard on the driver's door edge or door frame, and weigh the truck - that will give you actual payload and you can start calling is "0.57 ton" or whatever if you want.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

GassedOut said:


> I've read that it's possible to permanently disable the steering wheel lock, but people don't want to share how on the forums because it's a potential theft encouragement. I was thinking it would be handy for if bypassing the ignition circuit like the PO was setting up, and not wanting the steering wheel to lock up while driving (with no key). But, I'd rather repurpose the ignition as a contactor trigger, and still use the key. I'm thinking the inverted "u" that the white button pushes up is the important element in the lock.


I disabled the steering column lock in our race-prepared Honda, because the rules prohibited steering locks. I just disassembled until I found the pin, pulled it out, and put everything else back together. Yes, it makes some sense that the button is part of the lock, but the button may just be there to keep the key from accidentally falling out when wanna-be janitors drive the vehicle with a massive pile of keys pulling the truck's key out.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> Doesnt show in the picture of the mount, but there's a mormon clamp attaching the motor underneath to my u shaped 2x2 square tube ...


That made me curious - I couldn't think of why Mormons would have their own clamp design - so I had to do a search...
Marman clamp


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Amish clamps, if anything...


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> In the Wikipedia article, the changes for the 1989 model year are called a "major mid-cycle revision" of the first generation (which continues to 1992), and that seems reasonable to me - it appears to have been just a facelift.


That matches what I've seen and read, as well as the "facelift" term I've been using. The front end and dash changed, but most stuff seems to have remained pretty similar. Other than weird little changes like the diameter of the wiper blade shafts, which I'm probably the first person in 34 years to have reason to learn of.



brian_ said:


> It looks like a Ranger around 1988 has a Ford 7.5" axle with rear GAWR of 2750 pounds.


Correct.



> Compact trucks were called "1/4 tons" simply because they were smaller than typical North American full-sized "1/2 tons", not because of any axle or payload capacity. Look at the placard on the driver's door edge or door frame, and weigh the truck - that will give you actual payload and you can start calling is "0.57 ton" or whatever if you want.


Fair enough. I didn't mean "rated at" that literally. Just that the Ranger doesn't have the same capacity as a F150 of the same year, as far as I know. If I were to add F150 springs ('01 and earlier Explorer springs are looking like an equally worthwhile consideration), and with the strength improvements I'm making to the rear half of the frame, it's not far-fetched that it could approach F150 capacity, ratings be damned. The main difference at that point would be the smaller axle (and weaker drivetrain).


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## UglyCarFan (8 mo ago)

GassedOut: Thanks for posting your project. It is very informative, especially due to reminding some of us about things we may have totally forgotten about over the years. When I first saw your post, my thought was rip it all out, and start over. But I can see why you stuck with what was already there, and fixed it. 

There is one of these Rangers sitting in a junkyard here in Iowa that my buddy and I visit, that is in remarkable condition. The yard owner said something about battling some crazy old guy for years about this unit that sat in a barn forever. He won't sell it just because of the headache he went through to get it out of the barn. And, he won't sell parts off it, because it is such a nice truck. I guess that old guy must have really worked a number on him. Sitting out in Iowa weather is going to kill that truck within just a few years.

Just one comment regarding that link you put in about the flat bed conversion; could you do something like that, but incorporate an external roll cage behind the cab, and extend it down the sides of the bed towards the rear? Make it look a bit like a sand buggy?

If I had one of these, I'd be very tempted to consider an IRS from another Ford product like a T-Bird.

Keep up the good work.

PS: I'm a bit envious of all you guys out there in the NW. I've spent a lot of time there on business, and especially love the area around Olympia. Used to live in Tacoma in my Army days, and would not have left if Uncle Sam had not decreed it.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

UglyCarFan said:


> Just one comment regarding that link you put in about the flat bed conversion; could you do something like that, but incorporate an external roll cage behind the cab, and extend it down the sides of the bed towards the rear? Make it look a bit like a sand buggy?


I've saved a few examples of that sort for possible inspiration when I get to that stage.  I've also thought about building the cage to dimensions that a chopped bedliner could drop into. I have no tube bending capabilities or experience, though, which limits the creativity a bit.



> If I had one of these, I'd be very tempted to consider an IRS from another Ford product like a T-Bird.


I haven't looked into that option specifically, but one of the back burner things is to explore areas where it can be made to ride and handle as nice as possible ... thus grabbing the front sway bar on last week's parts pull.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

My guess about the key release button having something to do with the steering wheel lock was wrong. It still locks with that button pushed up. The steering wheel lock is hidden somewhere within the column and will require some digging. Good thing I have a spare!

I had the steering column and dash harness out, so I might as well pull the column support (crazy that the column is mounted by only 2 bolts) and e-brake to get at the leaky cowl / firewall...










There's no doubting it's a Ford, with seam sealer doing little more than trapping the water in. You could argue that it held up for 34 years, or you could look at it as the seam sealer probably failed 30 years ago and has been trapping water ever since... There's a sizable rust hole, and a couple smaller ones, hiding in the shadows of that picture. Welding thin, rusty metal is never fun -- it tends to just evaporate -- but hopefully there's enough material there to patch it up and not have to do filler panels.

The passenger corner isn't too bad, and the engine side is mostly limited to surface rust below the horizontal cowl lip. Getting into the cowl to fix the source of the problem is the sucky part, as it's part of the body structure. I have to remove the hood and drill out all the spot welds along the body-width lip (that the hood seal slides onto) to pry it open from the front for limited access. I'm guessing I'll find a rust hole in there that's allowing water to flow toward the inside of the firewall on the driver's side, as the drain on that side of the cowl is unobstructed, so it should be able to flow out to the fender. (The passenger side is almost dry now, after opening up its cowl drain.)

Right rear shock mount in place:










One of the upper bracket's three holes lines up nicely with an existing hole for mock-up positioning. One will have to be drilled and the other likely slotted, then I can lock that down. It now sits within 1/4" of the left side's center-to-center measurement, which is actually closer together than they were originally.










Other than the hitch's crossbar sitting in the middle vertically of the frame channel, that's about where it'll likely be positioned. Should be way stronger than anything I'll ever pull with this truck. You can see the inner rivets of the rear leaf spring mounts that it needs to slide past for positioning flexibility. I'll need to narrow the square tube a bit more to allow its mounting ears to be added, but I wanted to start wide and then narrow, rather than start to narrow and have to add material back.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

kaamho9 said:


> I ve done internal bellows throwout bearings. Either pull engine or drop trans, your choice depending on height of garage roof and lift equipment. I don't remember when the ranger got an internal slave, probably in '90-95. I didn't see evidence of a clutch line in the pictures so I still hope you have the 3rd pedal. Easy to get at pick a part, rare to find a stick anymore, rarer to find the correct one but one could weld a pedal to the shaft head. Mounting Holes are there under the rug.


Good general info, but not terribly helpful at this stage of the game, as all of that has been well established by page 5.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

GassedOut said:


> I didn't mean "rated at" that literally. Just that the Ranger doesn't have the same capacity as a F150 of the same year, as far as I know.


Likely true. 



GassedOut said:


> If I were to add F150 springs ('01 and earlier Explorer springs are looking like an equally worthwhile consideration), and with the strength improvements I'm making to the rear half of the frame, it's not far-fetched that it could approach F150 capacity, ratings be damned. The main difference at that point would be the smaller axle (and weaker drivetrain).


The problem with this is that the ability to support load is dependent on a chain of components, which like any chain is only a strong as its weakest link. It is common for the GVWR of light trucks to be limited by the frame, not by any of the axle or suspension components; I realized that you've already addressed the frame

Yes, a compact truck like that can have as much higher capacity than that of a typical production unit. The "one ton" Toyota trucks of 1985 to 1992 had all of the appropriate components for more than one ton (2,000 lbs) of payload; apparently the payload was actually 2,655 pounds if ideally configured. I believe that they used a different axle from the regular Pickup (yes, that was the model name!) of the time.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> I believe that they used a different axle from the regular Pickup (yes, that was the model name!) of the time.


I looked it up, figuring Hilux must have been the international naming alternative. Turns out I was half right... Hilux wasn't used in the N. American market, but, "the Hilux name was retired in 1976 in favor of _Truck_, _Pickup Truck_, or _Compact Truck_."


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Re: the steering wheel lock and key release lock... I did some digging on the old, non-tilt column. (The cylinder doesn't release even with the key release button pressed; it's just buggered from someone breaking the housing. So, I was wrong on that, too.) Pressing the key release button allows a bar to slide all the way forward (toward the driver) in the shaft, which allows the key to turn fully CCW. Pretty simple mechanism, and removing the "u" of the release button eliminates that function.

Locked position; the tip of the inverted "u" is blocking the internal slider:










Unlocked position; the "u" is lifted out of the hole (an optical illusion with the wear mark on the slider makes it look like it's still sitting in front), allowing the slider to move through its whole travel, and the key to turn far enough to be released:










As for the steering wheel lock, I was able to mostly disassemble things and see how it works, but I couldn't get the final piece apart to neuter it, likely due to the cylinder not coming out and jamming the main section from sliding off the column. There are four, I think, rectangular tabs around the perimeter of the column, close to the ignition cylinder. When the key is turned to RUN, a brass looking tab slides forward and clears the column's tabs. When the key is removed, that brass tab slides back and lines up with them, catching the closest one and locking them in.

Unlocked position; the brass tab is visible, slid toward the firewall:










Locked position, the brass tab is pulled back toward the steering wheel, engaging the tabs around the column:










So, I dug into the new, tilt column, to see if I can remove that brass tab without messing anything else up. I couldn't figure out how to get the tilt portion off the front of it, though -- maybe there's a write-up somewhere, explaining how the pivot is threaded into the internal bosses -- so I just removed the key release lock and left the steering wheel lock for another day.










Dead center in the pic is the confusing part. Both sides of the tilt pivot are like that, with what looks to be a press fitting that is internally threaded, and the pivot somehow threaded into that. But, there doesn't appear to be any head in there to get a tool on, so I'm not sure how you would un-thread it.

I got the hitch finished up, and I'm very pleased with how it turned out, even if I did take a chunk out of my thumb being careless...



















I decided to shorten the square tube more and have the angle iron ears face outward instead of inward. My thinking was two-fold: 1) that effectively boxes the frame there, making it extremely difficult to bend it (pointing inward would have just been doubled up angle iron, basically; tougher but nowhere near the strength of boxed), and 2) less excess weight from the square tubing. I got the fit as close to perfect as I could muster, and it's snug enough that it has to be rather aggressively tapped into place with a mallet. I bet I could pull a light trailer with it, not even bolted down yet!










Onto the miserable stuff... I continue to be amazed at how light Ford built these trucks. I was able to remove the hood by myself quite easily, which is pretty unusual for a steel hood. 33 spot welds drilled out across the hood-cowl seam, plus more covered up by the fenders that I'll work on next... I don't know what was more tedious yesterday, drilling all those out or working on firewall rust repair. I was almost happy to be interrupted by rain once again. At least I have most of the rust holes filled now, and a fair bit of filler metal laid down to reinforce seams and weak spots.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Don't forget the little Nissan dually, lol


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Don't forget the little Nissan dually, lol


Never heard of it, but a quick search shows some results under the Datsun naming of the time. (620 and 720?) That's an odd looking little fella.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I probably should have waited on drilling out the 43 spot welds, as doing so netted me no appreciable access.










As long as I have it opened, I'll see if there's anything else I can do to get in there, and maybe replace the long vent slats (aka leaf eaters) with perforated ones from later years or F-series, and put a screen over the big round HVAC intake on the passenger side.

I opened up the dr's side drain a bunch, and in so doing found that the 3 access points along the firewall are woefully inadequate for pushing anything through that end, due to all the contours that trap debris.










That drop-off to the left is the evil seam. Above it is one of the three access points, with the cover removed. There was a lot more debris piled up behind that clump in the middle of the pic.

Cleaned up better; how did Ford envision that shape working as a drain, rather than just places for water to pool and rust out the firewall??










More rain cut short welding work, but at least it give a good illustration of where the water pools, and why that vertical corner by the e-brake and clutch pedal was in such bad shape:










The low point lets water just sit above the seam, which as you can see from a few photos up, had no seam sealer from the factory. It's simply a pinch weld that lets water flow down either side of the firewall. They compounded the lunacy by seam sealing the _bottom_ of the seam on either side, so water is let in but not out. Brilliant.










That's as much seam sealer as I could get in there with the caulking gun, which was rather disappointing after all the work to open up the cowl. But, it rained again later in the day and the dr's floorboard went from a kiddie pool to bone dry, so I've definitely addressed the source of the leak if not satisfyingly fixed everything up yet.

I got all the rusty spots filled in -- dropping the fender liners gave me room to reinforce some of the work from the backside -- and coated them with seam sealer, as well. Hopefully, the cab will be dry and rust free for years to come.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I finally figured out the issue behind the transmission lacking space on the left side of the tunnel to get it pointed straight ahead:









misc. questions ('88 EV conversion) - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


General Ford Ranger Discussion - misc. questions ('88 EV conversion) - Hi all, I've been working on converting an '88 Ranger to electric for the past month. I purchased it as an abandoned, half-completed conversion, and have been undoing all the funk and neglect. Here's the back story and...



www.ranger-forums.com


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

*"Dually" (DRW) Nissan*


GassedOut said:


> Never heard of it, but a quick search shows some results under the Datsun naming of the time. (620 and 720?) That's an odd looking little fella.


620 and 720 are the names of two successive generations of the Nissan small truck. Dual rear wheels were a heavy-duty option on the 720, most commonly and perhaps only for chassis-cabs and not likely available on the earlier 620 (although many enthusiasts have put together DRW 620's).

Unlike Ford, Nissan (and Toyota) didn't have a larger pickup model available in North America at the time so they were driven to offer trucks with relatively high load capacity for the size of the truck.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

It felt good having Spring finally make an appearance today. It also felt good getting more construction than deconstruction done...










Final prep.










Painted.










New tilt column installed and pedal set / column mount painted (to address flaky oxidizing aluminum) and back in. Everything went smoothly except for the hour+ spent trying to get the column reinserted in its sleeve far enough to get the two stop bolts past each other. No idea why it was so much more snug of a fit than removal was.

Next on the weekly to-do list is: install the dash and juxtaposed harness, work on the motor mount, integrate the seats, and finish sealing up the cowl seam. Unfortunately, I'll likely only have short spurts of time to spend on it, other than Wed. I'll see if I can use a piece of clear hose to reach the tight spots (i.e., all of it!) of the cowl, and clamp that to the end of the caulking tube, without making an explosively sticky mess.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Burrs on the column bolt holes? (My assumption is you took it apart at the crash compression section instead of the flex coupling down by the steering box)


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Burrs on the column bolt holes? (My assumption is you took it apart at the crash compression section instead of the flex coupling down by the steering box)


The compression section is on the cab side of the firewall, and I didn't see anywhere to disassemble that portion. (Do the bellows slide off a junction?) The engine bay side of the column has a small stop bolt that slides past a larger cross bolt on the 3-sided shaft just above the rag joint. (The PS column adds an insert that looks like spreads more of the column's load along that 3-sided piece, but is otherwise identical to my manual column, as far as I could tell.)

Both of them had plenty of room to remove that small stop bolt, but to get the PS one back on, I had to pry against the small bolt and the far side opening of the big bolt to pull the column forward enough to get the big bolt through ... which of course meant having a pry tool in the way of the big bolt. I tried clamping it toward the rag joint and all sorts of stuff; finally got it lined up enough to hold it in place while hammering the big bolt from various angles. I can't imagine what sort of tool is intended for the purpose.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Bellows? Don't have a bellows anymore on mine. Did have an issue with the shaft falling off on the collapse portion, however, when I changed my steering box..

Went outside and looked. Yup theres the %¢€¥&& clamp, I remember it now. A sharp wood chisel pounded between the clamp and shaft and a bit of heat on the clamp backside worked as would an all thread bolt with two check nuts spun in opposite directions. I dont have a 3 sided shaft. Hmmm. Do have bolts on the flex joint. Double Hmmm.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Here's the part I was referring to:










I was just making up descriptive terms, so we may be talking about the same thing... However, I looked up the '88 steering assembly just now, and didn't find any other examples of that style, even though both in my possession are like that.

You may be on the right track with clamping it. There's not much lip on the back/bottom of the lower portion, but possibly just enough to clamp the insert portion to it once pried far enough by the small stop screw, leaving the path free for the main cross bolt.

As long as I'm posting a mini-update, here's a little progress shot of getting the new and improved dash harness untangled and properly situated:










I seem to be missing a horn relay for the 3-pin round horn/CC connector to the 2-pin flat one that the old non-CC horn wiring fits directly. (Described .) I puzzled over it for a while, trying to figure out how I could be missing such an obvious connection. Not sure if it was clipped to the dash I left behind or already disconnected, and I just didn't realize it was a needed piece.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Probably hiding under the something cover. Typically you wont find it until you put it all back together.

Ok found my mfr tag on the door 4340 max gvw using 215 70 R14 rear axle empty 1369 lbs front axle 2045 lbs so my math says about 1/2 ton capacity. Back in the day..... they were advertised as a 1/2 ton pickup and nevada says it's under 5,999 lbs max all up weight for braking. I oops it once with 1500 lb pallet of bricks and it wasn't touching the stops but wasn't a lot of fun to drive either.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Probably hiding under the something cover. Typically you wont find it until you put it all back together.


Definitely nowhere to be found. I'm guessing someone had already pulled it and I didn't notice the dangling, vacant wires among all the other dash stuff I had disconnected. Hopefully, I can find one of the 3-pin to 2-pin connector/relay setups. I've sorted out what half of it should probably look like, but am missing an example of the final piece. I may just clip the 3-wire (won't be using cruise) and solder on my old 2-wire to plug 'em straight together, bypassing the horn relay that is oddly only used on the cruise optioned trucks.



> Ok found my mfr tag on the door 4340 max gvw using 215 70 R14 rear axle empty 1369 lbs front axle 2045 lbs so my math says about 1/2 ton capacity. Back in the day..... they were advertised as a 1/2 ton pickup and nevada says it's under 5,999 lbs max all up weight for braking. I oops it once with 1500 lb pallet of bricks and it wasn't touching the stops but wasn't a lot of fun to drive either.


I bet that steering was light! Yeah, the topic came up on the Ranger forums and apparently the 1/4 ton thing was never officially a thing.

As it turns out, I may have been putting the cart in front of the horse this entire time... I learned recently that a DC motor can be bench tested with a 12V battery. It's just the controller that needs the specific, higher voltage. Of course, every thread had a different answer as to what the test procedure is; examples:









What is the correct way to 'bench test' a DC...


I'm sure its been mentioned before ... as I'm sure I read it here myself ... I just can't find the thread again ... :confused: I remember being told that you should only use 12V ... In my case, I'm asking about bench testing a D & D 8.9 HP SepEx golf cart motor with the F1 & F2 and A1 &...




www.diyelectriccar.com












FB1-4001A 12 volt test fail


Help! Hooked up a 12 volt battery to the FB1-4001A motor today (using jumper cables) and nothing happened. Tried everything we could think of... charged the battery from 12 volts to 13 volts.. checked all the brush lead screws.. nothing loose.. made a small sacrifice to the electric motor...




www.diyelectriccar.com








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How to Test a Club Car Motor


A club car is an electric-powered utility vehicle that is mainly used as a golf cart. Club cars can also used to move people more efficiently around places where regular vehicles will not fit. Electric-powered club cars come equipped with a series-wound electric motor that turns the wheels...




itstillruns.com






https://www.go-ev.com/PDFs/005_007_Motor_Bench_Test.pdf




http://www.evamerica.com/fb14001aoreve1.pdf



The last two, NetGain and ADC's instructions, were finally in agreement. ADC's further clarifies that the procedure changes for which direction to spin the motor, which likely explains the inconsistent answers.

Unfortunately, my ADC 9" isn't spinning up.  I tried it with the big truck battery, as it's been sitting for more than a month with very minimal draw, and some spare jumper cables. The battery showed good voltage and CCAs, but I threw it on the charger just to be sure. Still nothing. Swapped out the jumper cables for heavy gauge copper wiring that came with the Ranger, still nothing. Added a second jumper between S2-A2 in case the one in place wasn't intact internally, still nothing.

The motor spins easily and smoothly by hand using the front shaft, so honestly, I wasn't anticipating a bad outcome to the test. I had the transmission in neutral and still stood off to the side of the truck, just in case it lurched forward somehow.

"If that gives no joy, you need to test further and see if you have an open circuit from A1 to A2 or S1 to S2 to track down the problem. Hope that helps."

Looks like that's my next step.

Does anyone know of a source for an ADC FB1-4001A manual (pdf)? I've struck out on that, and I'm guessing the company is long gone, judging from their domain being sold off. If I need to to a full tear down, it would be nice to have more documentation than the spattering of blog articles and the various youtube videos for generic DC motors.

Good brush info here, minus the missing pictures, but probably not my current issue:









Motor burned up?


Patrick ya got to tell us whats up?? Do you know yet?? Brian




www.diyelectriccar.com


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

That last link above actually proved relevant, as far as @ElectriCar 's info about brushes.

I followed these steps common a few testing guides ... meter continuity checked, 28 ohms between S1 and A1 terminals (should be 10-30, or 10-100 according to other write-ups), and varied resistance when turning the shaft. So, that indicates the motor itself is good.

Pulling the cover, the/a problem was immediately evident. I can see the four brush holders from above (will need to lift it off the crossmember to access the two lower ones), and three of them have a brush popped up significantly.











I pulled that raised one out, which required way more effort than should something intended to be free floating...










Gotta figure out why it was so tight in the holder. You can see carbon stuck to the top left of the holder, corresponding to that blown out chunk on the brush. There's a slight curvature to the brush's bottom, but not quite as much as I would have expected to see. Makes me wonder if it was ever shaped and/or seated properly.

If it is just brush failure, that's probably best case scenario for a non-responsive motor. I found the replacement part # and several options at around $15/brush.

This is the only one of the four holders that had both brushes seated:










In other news...

It occurred to me I could get a glimpse of the motor-tranny coupler through the tranny's access port, but getting light in there for pictures was tricky.



















Those are looking forward, at the motor. Does anyone recognize that coupler, or is it custom made? It doesn't look like something a machine shop would have produced. I'll probably have to pull the motor to work on brushes, at which point I'd like to take a closer look at the coupler and see how much spline engagement it has with the tranny.

The cowl is seam sealed as much as I could reach -- the area behind the hood mounts and wiper arms defeated me -- and a much needed screen added to the HVAC intake. No rust holes were discovered...just the poorly designed seam was letting all the water flow in.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Looking at the brush with the knicks and chunks: (my favorite) either something like dirt was wedged on the comm, you have a lifted segment, or P.O. was incredibly incompetent. To me, the motor should come out. 

Hub Adapter is probably homemade if your motor to trans adapter is flat plate. Hmmm dont see a pressure plate. Back then there were only a couple houses making cologne pattern adapters but they all looked the same and you could get a reman clutch disc for $15 then just use the hub

$15 a brush??? Crap, mine were $600 a set of 8 with a min buy of 2 sets and wait 6 weeks.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Looking at the brush with the knicks and chunks: (my favorite) either something like dirt was wedged on the comm, you have a lifted segment, or P.O. was incredibly incompetent. To me, the motor should come out.


You can't tell in the above photos, but here's another one (seemed redundant in describing the situation) showing that the "popped" brushes aren't in line with each other. The brush I pulled was the foremost one, while the one down and to the left is the rearmost that popped up.










So, I don't think it was dirt or debris to blame, otherwise you'd expect them all to be affected on the same end of their respective holders. Incredibly incompetent PO is looking likely.  I'm just a little concerned that I also need to be looking for general shorted insulation issues while I'm at it, in case the brushes are the symptom not the cause...

When you say a lifted segment, do you mean one of the comm bars? Everything looked even when spinning the shaft, in terms of no high spots interfering with the seated brushes.



> Hub Adapter is probably homemade if your motor to trans adapter is flat plate. Hmmm dont see a pressure plate. Back then there were only a couple houses making cologne pattern adapters but they all looked the same and you could get a reman clutch disc for $15 then just use the hub


The pressure plate and clutch were removed in favor of a solid coupler, so the clutch pedal does nothing other than allowing ignition...which could be bypassed. I'm lukewarm on that approach, but it was probably the simplest to cobble together, and does save weight. I saw a coupler yesterday on one of the EV vendor sites that looked a bit like what I've got. I'm guessing the PO started with something like that, built into the oddball square-ish headed body.

I had to look up what Cologne pattern refers to...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns#Taunus/Cologne_pattern



One thing I'd really like to do is modify the adapter plate to allow the motor to push into the bellhousing, assuming the coupler can slide over the input shaft's splines further for better engagement. That would gain a much needed inch or so to be able to rotate the motor to a cleaner orientation for mounting, with the terminals then clearing the main crossmember. (On the other hand, just clearing the crossmember may not be enough, as you wouldn't want jolts to allow it to make contact with ground. Hmm.) But, designing something that wouldn't introduce play into the coupling is a challenge. I don't think my fab skills are quite up to building an inset "plate" that's perfectly flat from surface to mounting points.



> $15 a brush??? Crap, mine were $600 a set of 8 with a min buy of 2 sets and wait 6 weeks.


Ouch! I guess it pays to have an industrial, non-exotic motor. $600 is bonkers from the standpoint of materials cost.. From the link embedded in the previous post, any of these OEM part #'s supposedly fit my motor: ADC A89-012A, A89-012E, A89-012F, A91-112A, A91-112E, A91-112H, EZ 73120-G39, 73120G39, CC 102938601, TD 70-170-30, MO 484009, ND 21013


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

All small motor bell housings up to the 4.0 this era fit this pattern and are called Cologne engines. Makes motor swaps really easy. wiki explains that

A lifted comm segment should make a tick noise when hand spinning with seated brushes and only accumulated crud or a screw would bash the brushes like that. So would using a hammer to seat them, I guess.

The next person who orders a set of Helwig brushes for a Kostov motor won't have to engineer them. I paid for that unless Helwig gets greedy but it wont be a significant cost savings.

Can you unbolt the motor and spin the housing 180 degrees? Cant see any reason why the posts are on the bottom, so another reeason to yank it. The tranny splines are a slip fit so like .010" which is within the range of a garage mechanic. Looks like you have 1/2" more spline on the input shaft.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Can you unbolt the motor and spin the housing 180 degrees? Cant see any reason why the posts are on the bottom, so another reeason to yank it.


They're not on the bottom currently. Here's a pic again, for reference, from before I removed all the wiring:










My limitations are:

1) can't rotate the end cap to make the 2 bolts be horizontal (preferable as a mount), as it has stuff bolted to it on the inside that I haven't yet determined if it requires a fixed position.

2) can't rotate motor 90 degrees CCW because cover grate's clasp would be up against the crossmember (would have to jack it up to access it then for inspection.

3) very tight for rotating motor 90 degrees CW, as the A2 stud would be super close to the crossmember where it slopes down to the rear.

90 degrees CCW would be ideal, making the two end cap bolt holes work best for a mounting point (although, I'm debating leaving them empty for a RPM sensor to be added), keeping all the terminals easily accessible, and rotating the apparently only one side frame mounting point from down low on the right side to up nearer the top. (This example shows it as the anchor point in the cradle/clamp mount, in between 2 of the 3 frame bolts.) But, it doesn't look like I can do much to modify the crossmember, as it doubles as the swing arm range for the TTBs. So, the motor needs to move rearward to keep everything accessible ... and sit lower so the tranny isn't angled up. It's surprisingly difficult to make such a small thing fit the big, open space.

I assume I'll be able to rotate the motor on its adapter plate, once removed.

I suppose I could rearrange the two adapter plates. Move the smaller one in back and add spacers to bolt it and the motor to the front plate, which in turn is bolted to the bellhousing. The small plate would probably need to be enlarged for more overlap. That would create the inset I was hoping for, without the challenge of keeping each extension piece perfectly even around the perimeter.



> The tranny splines are a slip fit so like .010" which is within the range of a garage mechanic. Looks like you have 1/2" more spline on the input shaft.


I searched a bit for the length of the splines on the input shaft and couldn't find anything. Hopefully, they're more than an inch long, to get plenty of engagement with that 1/2" or so sticking out.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

End cap has power wires going to field so no you can't change that easily. Might rotate 180 but that doesn't help either, just puts stud near other side of cross member

What I recall is the trans splines are about 2 to 3" long (my hand width) but we don't know what the owner did to the shaft. Pretty sure the pilot bearing part of the shaft is whacked off. Which reminds me: checking for synchro burn might be in order.

Another convincing argument for yanking the motor.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

If the tranny's splines are 2-3" long, and weren't chopped shorter (ugh, hadn't thought of that), then engagement as situated should be okay. But yeah, that's definitely another reason to pull it and get a closer inspection.

Unfortunately, I buggered my back on Sunday and then toasted it yesterday, and have family activities the better part of the upcoming week, so probably won't be able to tackle it for a bit. I can't really get the cherry picker into position to help lift the motor, so I figured it'll be a 2-person job with basket straps, tree saver straps, etc. In my current managerial state, it would be a 3-person job...


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Mine is 200 lbs and has a threaded lift point. I can grunt lift it and wrestle it around to the top of a step stool but NOT bent over. Engine hoist of some sort is mandatory down in the engine bay but a comealong and a thick tree branch should suffice or raise it up couple foot and come out the bottom with a tranny jack. A standard truss rafter might be strong enough to hang just the motor.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

Nothing overhead to lift by, so I'll have to muscle it. I thought about tranny jack'ing it from below, but then I'm back to the issue of it overhanging the engine crossmember. That might be a tight squeeze to angle in and out, with the motor-tranny adapter plate limiting mobility.

At 143 lbs, I think muscling it is going to be simplest. I figure I'll prop some boards between crossmembers to keep it from dropping when unbolted from the bellhousing and pulled forward (probably will need ratchet straps to dislodge the rusty looking coupler), then slide it forward enough to get more leverage on it.

BTW, you mentioned on the previous page, "Which reminds me: checking for synchro burn might be in order. Another convincing argument for yanking the motor." I assumed you were referring to the tranny synchros, but then I started second guessing that last night, as they can be accessed from above by pulling the shifter panel and cover. So, there must be DC motor synchros, as well? I'm seeing stuff about transmitter and receiver synchros, but mostly related to AC. Am I on the right track?


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I tried removing the seated brush next to the "popped" one I pulled the other day. It's jammed in there so tight, it's crumbling from the effort of trying to wiggle it free. I measured the other one and it matches replacement specs, so unless the holders are wrong, I don't see any way the brushes could move by spring tension.

I'm guessing the popped ones were never actually seated, because they couldn't be forced down all the way into the holders. I'm not sure how that explain the blown out portion of the one I pulled, though.

Edit: I think this is what I'm facing: 




Sitting for a long time, in a somewhat humid environment, fits the description!

Also this, with some unrelated but pertinent info: DC generator brush problem. - Electric motors & generators engineering - Eng-Tips

Looks like I'll have to do some motor disassembly to get inside access for working them free in the holders. That or blast them apart from the outside and hope to not damage the holders or commutator.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

I've been doing a pretty big backyard project the past few weeks and haven't had much energy to put into the Ranger, but I have some progress to report...

The motor sure was resistant to coming out. Two ratchet straps pulling from the front couldn't pop it free. Too tight to operate the levers any further, one strap was starting to tear, and the tranny was being pulled forward so much, I thought the soft rear mount might break... I realized there are two small cutouts on either side of the adapter plate for a reason: pry bar placement against the bellhousing. The PO must have found a shared plan back in the day for the Ford conversions, because it's the only part of the build that reflects a clear vision! Even so, it took a lot of work with multiple pry bars. Seeing the bellhousing flex made me wonder what was going to give in first... I think the adapter plate's holes for the two locating pegs were made a little too snug and were the main point of resistance.










The nose for the pilot bearing was definitely cut off. The input shaft splines measure 1.25" long, after however much was cut off. The coupler has 1.75" internal depth, with the internal splines being 1" deep. The key for the output shaft's keyway sits up against the internal splines. So, I can insert the input shaft enough to have only 1/4" showing, for more spline engagement. But, I redid the two SS adapter plates (3/8" combined) with a single 1/4" steel plate, instead of doing dual plates to push the motor into the bellhousing, so that only gains 1/8" of engagement. I suppose I could play with the coupler's position on the output shaft, to cheat it another 1/4" to 1/2" toward the input shaft. I did some rust treatment on the coupler and input shaft, and will add some anti-seize to them when reinstalling.



















(My professional friend agreed the old adapter plates looked like aluminum, but said they're probably stainless steel because they didn't seem soft enough by the knife test. Now that I've removed them and can feel their weight, I agree, they have to be SS. That means my new and improved adapter plate will actually be lighter not heavier. As completed: old = 11 lb 6 oz, new = 8 lb 13 oz ... 2 lb 9 oz reduction. If I feel like making more noise, I may do a cutout below the two top bolts.)










Assuming I centered the motor precisely on the adapter plate -- I based it on the old plate's motor hole positions, which of course were oversized for measurement slop, since nothing about the bellhousing is particularly symmetric to measure by -- I didn't want to try doing so again with the center cut out, should I need to rotate the motor's mounting arrangement. So, I marked out a circle where the bolt holes would be and dimpled them with the centering punch. That was the best I could come up with, having no easy means of scribing a circle on metal.










You can see how much the transmission wants to lean over, without motor mounts holding it in place.

My new adapter plate lined up almost perfect on the first try, with the only exception being the top two bolt holes. Ironic, seeing as how I debated omitting that part, as I see no need to seal off the bellhousing (there are places for debris to get in already; might as well allow places for it to get back out) and that many bolts seems excessive. If four hold the plate to the motor, then that many holding the plate to the bellhousing should be sufficient... Maybe a couple extra to spread the forces. Looks like the old plate had them off slightly, as well, but the holes were oversized to hide the fact. So much for a perfect template to follow. No biggie, as those are non-threaded holes in the bellhousing, so sticking with the nut and bolt method will do just fine.










I was happy with how it lined up on the bellhousing, so I proceeded to do the center cutout. Side note: I wasn't sure my JEGS plasma cutter would handle 1/4" plate, but it did every bit as well as my skill level could muster. It's definitely true that cleaning both surfaces helps.










Second test fit is a go, with the top two bolt holes moved up one step on the step drill bit. The old adapter plate didn't have the two locator peg holes drilled well. One of the steps was perfect for them, and now the plate doesn't require much force at all to remove.

Now for the part I'd been holding my breath on...










The adapter plate was oh so close to perfect as far as lining up with the motor's bolt holes. You can see the two on the right are slightly cocked. I had drilled the holes to the exact size needed for the 3/16" bolts, trying to get the placement precise with the schematic's 8.400" diagonal spacing instead of the PO's oversized marks. I had to file a fraction of a mm from them to open things up enough for all four bolts to line up straight, and the result was:










Nailed it.  That's positioned such that the two front face bolts are horizontal, so I can now build a simple mount going straight across.

I hadn't seen this reflected in pictures, and I couldn't determine it until pulling the motor because of it resting on the cover band, but there are actually 3 indentations on the band for the 2 terminals, meaning the band can be rotated to keep the clasp accessible on the side. The labels will need to come off, since they'll no longer correspond to the terminal positions, but they're also engraved by the terminals for reference.

It's a good thing the PO presumably never got it running, because the bolts holding the adapter plate to the motor were barely more than hand tight. (I haven't found torque specs...) Also, I can't say anything nice about someone who uses threaded rod to bolt things together... Good grief, what an annoyance to remove, having to fit jam nuts on there to back them out. And he doubled down on the "everything erroneous" approach by inserting them exactly 1", when spec is 0.8" max.

I also got the motor running on the bench test, thanks to some troubleshooting assistance in a separate thread:









ADC FB1-4001A brush(es) troubleshooting


I posted some pictures and description in my build thread regarding the state of the brushes in my new-to-me FB1-4001A motor. The motor is now out of the engine bay, and I was able to remove the end cap and get a better look at things. I'd appreciate any input on diagnosing its bench test...




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I was activating the insurance for one my cars a while back and asked my agent about insuring an EV conversion. He said Farmers likely wouldn't cover it, but that they work with Hagerty for things like that. Anyone have experience with rate pricing with them? I had assumed I would be rolling this up in my home/auto policy.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"checking for synchro burn might be in order."

👍

That's the possible downside of "keeping the clutch experience" and shifting on the go.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> That's the possible downside of "keeping the clutch experience" and shifting on the go.


TBD what I think of clutch-less shifting, having to pause during shifts, but I imagine shifting won't occur all that frequently if it's not being highway driven.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

It's not a pause - the syncros are not designed to brake the massive rotational inertia of a direct coupled motor rotor vs a very light clutch disk.

You have to rev match onthego shifts.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> It's not a pause - the syncros are not designed to brake the massive rotational inertia of a direct coupled motor rotor vs a very light clutch disk.


Even with the low inertia of an electric motor?



> You have to rev match onthego shifts.


Everything I've read previously says the pause negates the need for that.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What low inertia? The rotors on the traction motors I have I'd guess weigh in excess of 30 pounds. 

You are not decelerating the flywheel, pressure plate, or the ICE rotating assembly when the clutch is in for a shift.

The clutch disk being braked by the syncros only needs four 1st class stamps to get it mailed (exaggerating a bit for levity, but you get my drift)


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> What low inertia


Here's one such example: http://www.evamerica.com/clutchlessdesign2012.pdf


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Number 6 is marketing bullshit. The flywheel and pressure plate inertia has nothing to do with the transmission syncros.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Takes me a couple of seconds upshifting to let my setup spin down and I use the stock flywheel assembly so maybe 75 lbs rotational mass. Most of the time I can get by just using 3rd and accepting the momentary watts waste.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Takes me a couple of seconds upshifting to let my setup spin down and I use the stock flywheel assembly so maybe 75 lbs rotational mass. Most of the time I can get by just using 3rd and accepting the momentary watts waste.


That's in line with the other info I've read. Maybe 1-2 sec pause with the lesser rotational inertia of no flywheel and clutch.

Likewise, I'm thinking most of my eventual use will stay in 2nd gear, and only occasional 3rd gear use for higher speeds. Shifting is way down my list of priorities right now.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Two difficulties with second gear: your motor can probably only do 5000 rpm before it centrifugally destroys itself, and higher rpm wants higher voltages to overcome back EMF. With the 373's and tires I have, 2nd tops out at 35 and sounds like a wounded turbine aircraft.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

35 mph is lower than I would have expected. What diameter tires are you running?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Ok, because I could, with 26" dia tires, my koyotogo trans does 50 mph in 3rd @3500 rpm up a 6% hill to home depot. So maybe 65 ish at 5000 if you have enough throttle left? Hmmm reminds me of driving my superbug.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Ok, because I could, with 26" dia tires, my koyotogo trans does 50 mph in 3rd @3500 rpm up a 6% hill to home depot. So maybe 65 ish at 5000 if you have enough throttle left?


That sounds more like I'd expect. By my spreadsheet calculations from a while back, with the 31's I currently have on, worn down enough to figure them as 30", I should be at 4600 RPM in 2nd and 3135 RPM in 3rd @ 50 mph. That's with the 3.73 rear end and the M50D-R1's 2.20 and 1.50 2nd/3rd gearing.

From your previous post, 2nd gear topping out at 35 mph had me concerned, as that puts it right in the middle of most around town driving, meaning lots of slow up-shifts and downshifts. Yuck. But, re-running my numbers for 35 mph yields 3218 RPM in 2nd and 2194 RPM in 3rd. That should make 2nd gear sufficient for virtually all the driving I expect it'll see.

Putting in the stock-ish 25.9" tire diameter I began with yields 3728 RPM in 2nd and 2542 RPM in 3rd, for 35 mph. That bumps up to 5325 and 3631, respectively, for 50 mph, so highway speeds fitting are where 2nd gear becomes unrealistic.


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## GassedOut (9 mo ago)

It's been nearly two months since doing up the nicer motor-tranny adapter plate, and I've been so sidetracked with other projects, it was only this week that I tackled the motor mounts.

When I got the adapter plate bolted up, I was mildly dismayed to see that my perfect measurements were based on one underlying flaw: the plate itself that I did the cutout from must not have been squared up to the bellhousing up top. Once in place, the motor's two face plate bolts weren't quite horizontal. Bummer, but close enough that I could fudge it with hole placement of the crossbar that would connect them to the motor mounts.










After much indecision how to situate the mounts, I settled on bolting them straight to the crossmember, in the stock location, and having the new crossbar bolt to them ... as opposed to the mounts and crossbar being a single piece. That would be more sturdy, but it would mean excessive torture getting the passenger side unbolted from below any time I needed to lift the motor for brush access, since that portion sits directly over the crossmember.

Also, this way I could pull the motor without removing the mounts.










I went with hockey pucks as the soft mount, so I wouldn't have to go solid mount on the transmission and add all that driveline stress.




















If I had made the overlap between crossbar and motor mounts a bit bigger, I would have done two bolts on each side to fight any rotational tendencies. I think it'll be okay like that, though, as a lot of stuff would have to loosen and move in conjunction for anything to happen. (Edit: I opted not to add more overlap because doing so would make it tight to remove the motor with the mounts still in place.)

I considered running the rearward portion of the mounts back to the top of the bellhousing -- the reason they weren't trimmed round to match the pucks -- as an extra mounting point. But, there's no cantilevering forward over the pucks, since most of the weight is actually behind them, so it seemed unnecessarily complicated.

I may go back and trim up the crossbar a bit, especially above the front shaft. (There's actually plenty of clearance despite the two, despite it looking like they're almost touching in the photos, looking down.)


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