# Converting 2000 Audi TT



## EV Myself (Apr 12, 2011)

I have been lurking for 6-8 months getting ideas from everyone’s projects. I finally have taken the plunge and started digging into my 2000 Audi TT. 

Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication: I have been working on and rebuilding cars for over 25 years. I have done everything from a '50 Merc custom to an RV-8 kit plane. 

The range you are hoping to get: Looking to get 100 miles on a charge, not that it is needed I have less than a 3 mile commute. 

What level of performance you are hoping to get: Not looking for a race car but want performance about the level of the original are. The original car was 180 hp.

What parts you've already considered: Planning a Warp9, Soliton1 and 50 LPO4 180Ah cells. 











I have started a Blog to document the build and post more pictures.

Alan
Cedar Rapids, IA
http://audittev.blogspot.com/


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## mharvey (Oct 30, 2009)

Is this a Quattro? Im guessing at 180 hp it's not a turbo. I have an'01 Quattro Roadster at 225hp that I b9ought to convert. So fun to drive and ran so well I drove it ICE for a few years (hanges head in shame). I was thinking of going AC and the Quattro does pose some interesting design challenges. Heavy car out of the gate so strip whatever you can where you can. That will help a ton in your 100 mpc goal.

Good luck on your build. I'll be eagerly watching your progress.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

good start!

I would look at an 11" motor for your hp requirements. You would be pushing a 9" a little too far in my opinion

You also need to go for a higher voltage to get all the power from the Soliton (350v hard limit).

I'd plan for about 95ish 100AH+ cells instead

Cheers

Mike


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## lithiumlogic (Aug 24, 2011)

Interesting donor car. What's the drag coefficient? With a few mods it could be pretty slick?

Since the rear seats are only good for headless children, how about getting rid and shoving batteries back there?


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## EV Myself (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys. My TT is not a Quatro, just the FWD model. The 180hp does have a turbo, the 225hp motor just makes more boost and has a 2nd intercoolers to deal with the extra heat. I will be trying to cut weight where I can but I'm going to keep most of the car in tact to keep it comfortable.

I looked at the 11" motors but the added length would require frame modifications that I'm not willing to do at this time. Since I only have a 3 mile drive to work, I'm kind of hoping when I'm done the car is nice enough that my wife will take it over. She uses the majority of gas we buy. Since she tends be more of a lead foot than me, being down on power will save money in tickets. I really don't think 160 volts at a 1000 amps is going to be that lacking in power. Of course more is always better, but will be the reason to start a second project when this one is done.

Thanks
Alan


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## mharvey (Oct 30, 2009)

skooler said:


> good start!
> 
> I would look at an 11" motor for your hp requirements. You would be pushing a 9" a little too far in my opinion
> 
> ...


I agree on the more 100 ah cells for the sole reason is you will have more flexibility in placement as the 100s are smaller and you will need to be creative. Weight displacement will be something you want to watch. If you put too much weight in the trunk it will really affect your handling, so jam as many cells as forward as you can. TTs have nice "soccer mom tuned suspensions". You don't want to throw that away in bad weight distribution, which in a small car like the TT is even less forgiving.

Agreed on the 9" motor. With transverse tranny an 11" would definitely present some space problems especially if you plan on an aux shaft. As for the Soliton 1, with the 9" motor it may be overkill as you will probably not want to push 1000 amps at the 9" as a regular practice. Nice to have the juice, but you (and your wife) should rarely need it unless you want to smoke some rubber. With a 9" Sol Jr may be a better match. For a car this size the 600 amps should be plenty. And use the extra duckets on other things. 

Keep us posted.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't see any problems at pushing 1000 amps through a warp 9.

Size of the motor doesn't really effect your peak power as much as it effects your continuous.

Remember that a Warp11 HV is really a 9" internally.

For the Soliton Junior a really small motor like the Kostov 220V 9" is a good match as a lower power alternative. This would work out with a 240v-260v pack of 100ah cells close to your goal of 180hp.

220v * 600amps = 211 hp battery so after motor and mechanical losses in the range of 170 hp peak.

A warp 9 with the same pack and Soliton 1 and pushing the cells to 800amps (but still 1000 amps to motor) would give you 192v * 1000 = 300hp and then after losses around 240 hp.

So after looking at the numbers I think the warp 9 is overkill!


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

drgrieve said:


> I don't see any problems at pushing 1000 amps through a warp 9.


That's not good mojo.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

EV Myself said:


> Thanks for the input guys. My TT is not a Quatro, just the FWD model. The 180hp does have a turbo, the 225hp motor just makes more boost and has a 2nd intercoolers to deal with the extra heat. I will be trying to cut weight where I can but I'm going to keep most of the car in tact to keep it comfortable.
> 
> I looked at the 11" motors but the added length would require frame modifications that I'm not willing to do at this time. Since I only have a 3 mile drive to work, I'm kind of hoping when I'm done the car is nice enough that my wife will take it over. She uses the majority of gas we buy. Since she tends be more of a lead foot than me, being down on power will save money in tickets. I really don't think 160 volts at a 1000 amps is going to be that lacking in power. Of course more is always better, but will be the reason to start a second project when this one is done.
> 
> ...


Hi Alan,

Whats the hard limit on length? The 11" kostov motors are shorter than the warp equivelents. Might be worth a look.

I personally would not be comfortable in putting 1000amps through a warp9 on a reqular basis. Occasionally yes but not often.

The bigger picture is that an 11" motor will almost certainly outlast the 9" motor if you were to throw 1000 amps at them both.

Secondly, you wont get 160 volts and 1000 amps - The cells are at more than 5c discharge rate. Expect more like 100ish volts. 

This is why you are better off going for a higher voltage pack. You normally either want torque (amps) or RPMs (volts) but rarely at the same time. Higher voltage allows you to get the best of both as battery volts can be converted to motor amps by the soliton when required.

Hope this helps 

Cheers,

Mike


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## mharvey (Oct 30, 2009)

skooler said:


> Hi Alan,
> 
> Whats the hard limit on length? The 11" kostov motors are shorter than the warp equivelents. Might be worth a look.
> 
> ...


 
Actually, the Kostov K11-250 is a 250v 11" dia. and is 16" in length, while the Impulse 9 is 17" and the Warp9 is 21" (and both of those are 170v). So Skooler is correct. No issues with transverse fit of 11" unless your married to a Warfield. So Kostov 11" and Sol 1 (though IMO I still think this amount of juice is overkill for a TT commuter)


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hi Alan,
> 
> I personally would not be comfortable in putting 1000amps through a warp9 on a regular basis. Occasionally yes but not often.
> 
> The bigger picture is that an 11" motor will almost certainly outlast the 9" motor if you were to throw 1000 amps at them both.


You might want to tell John Metric of this concern, he puts 2000 amps through his stock warp 9's. That is 170 volts * 2000 amps * 2!

See the DC Plasma thread for much better information that I can supply.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/dc-plasma-build-thread-10sec-fiero-69476.html

A 11" would last longer under continuous load but you would find under peak load it would not last much longer than a warp 9 as the heat is not saturating the motor but concentrated in the brushes. 

Running a 1/4 mile is much easier than running a whole mile under max load - warp 9 or 11 both will break down under these amps loads for a mile run.

Now if the problem is pushing a truck or heavy car up a long winding hill or mountain pass - this is where you need a 11" motor. But for a drag or some quick acceleration onto a on ramp then a 11" is not really needed. 1000 amps, 2000 amps (omg!) a 9 inch is fine from all reports I've read.

There are other advantages to going to a smaller motor - less torque on the drive train and generally higher RPM.

Of course if you don't care about the above, and have the weight, room, and money to spare - then why not put in a 11 inch - it makes the build more impressive if nothing else.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I do not think you mentioned before, so how much money are you willing to invest?


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

Hi Alan,
Nice project!
I am also cosidering converting a TT. Actually I'm thinking Audi TT or Audi A2. The TT is of course much cooler, whereas the A2 would get the better range and more space for dogs and stuff. Both are rather small cars and I guess it will be a challange to find room for all the batteries and also to not exceed the max weight of the car.
Do you know how much volume you manage to get for batteries? I want to keep the back seats and the trunk so I guess I'm interested in the volume you've found in other parts of the vehicle.
Also, did you weigh the parts the you stripped off? It seems most TTs in Sweden have a max load of 285 kg so with +200 kg of EV stuff there woun't be much margin for passengers and animals.
It is an 1.8 litre engine, right?


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## EV Myself (Apr 12, 2011)

Spoland,
I was only able to find room for 22 CALB 180AH cells in the engine compartment, the other 28 will go in the back seat area. I did cut out part of the floor under the seat to take advantage of the fuel tank space. The 180AH cell were to tall to get a box completely under the floor, with other cell you may get a pack under the floor as long as you don't try to use a Quatro. If you are ok with a shorter range you may be able to get away with keeping the rear seat. My goal was 100 mile range so the back seat had to go, I don't have any head less children so the back seat could not be used anyway.

Alan
http://audittev.blogspot.com/


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

EV Myself said:


> Spoland,
> I was only able to find room for 22 CALB 180AH cells in the engine compartment, the other 28 will go in the back seat area. I did cut out part of the floor under the seat to take advantage of the fuel tank space. The 180AH cell were to tall to get a box completely under the floor, with other cell you may get a pack under the floor as long as you don't try to use a Quatro. If you are ok with a shorter range you may be able to get away with keeping the rear seat. My goal was 100 mile range so the back seat had to go, I don't have any head less children so the back seat could not be used anyway.
> 
> Alan
> http://audittev.blogspot.com/


Thanks for the info Alan!
The CALB 180Ahs are 279 mm tall. Do you think the Thundersky 200Ah wide version (256 mm tall) might fit? That's about an inch lower. Or is it necessary to use batteries like TS 100Ah (220mm) to fit under the floor? They are more than 2" lower than the CALB 180Ah. I guess using those would mean sacrificing some range (or increase the number of cells substantially and get more power)

Did you ever consider using the space for the 4WD drive shaft for batteries or is it too small?

Any info on the weight of the removed ICE stuff?

/ Peter


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Have you considered putting the cells on their side?

Not flat but resting on the smallest face. If you drew a line between the terminals it should be perpendicular to the ground.


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## cpct (May 31, 2012)

skooler said:


> Have you considered putting the cells on their side?
> 
> Not flat but resting on the smallest face. If you drew a line between the terminals it should be perpendicular to the ground.


Doesn't that have a negative effect on the battery's capacity?


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

cpct said:


> Doesn't that have a negative effect on the battery's capacity?


IIRC on the narrow side is fine, flat is not.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

somanywelps said:


> IIRC on the narrow side is fine, flat is not.


Any reference to a manufacturer that confirms that?


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

spoland said:


> Any reference to a manufacturer that confirms that?


One of them released a picture showing how the electrolyte settled and how it lost contact with some of the plates if it was flat; if it was on the narrow side it still touched all of them.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

somanywelps said:


> One of them released a picture showing how the electrolyte settled and how it lost contact with some of the plates if it was flat; if it was on the narrow side it still touched all of them.


Correct.

It was thundersky but I can't find the picture


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## EV Myself (Apr 12, 2011)

I have not posted much here, but I am making progress. Please check out my blog http://audittev.blogspot.com/ for updates. 

I do have a probelm that I need some help with. When I got the tack pulse from the Soliton to drive the tach, I get a oil pressure warning. I found the input for oil pressure and it is a switch that grounds the signal when there is oil pressure. I thought just strapping it to ground would take care of the problem, but if there is no RPM and it is grounded the oil pressure warning comes on. So I need a circuit that is normaly open but is grounded when there is RPM. Any ideas?

Thanks
Alan
Cedar Rapids, IA


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Nice progress.

About your problem : do you have a switch on your pot box ?, if yes , you can connect a relay and problem is almost solved.

Otherwise you may have to start an Arduino project.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Guessing there isn't any actual oil?

Just take the bulb out or cover it up. Some black electrical tape on the inside of the dash works wonders!


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## EV Myself (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks guys,
I'm using the OEM drive by wire throttle so there is no switch on the "pot box".
The message comes up on the smart dash LCD so taking the bulb out or putting tape over it does not work so well. 
Looking for something simpler than an arduino project, but this is the direction I may have to go.

Keep the idea's coming.
Alan


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## TTmartin (Feb 7, 2012)

EV Myself said:


> Thanks guys,
> I'm using the OEM drive by wire throttle so there is no switch on the "pot box".
> The message comes up on the smart dash LCD so taking the bulb out or putting tape over it does not work so well.
> Looking for something simpler than an arduino project, but this is the direction I may have to go.
> ...


Nice progress Alan,

I've actually removed the middle LCD display, it's all ICE info on it,
maybe a space to mount a useful meter/gauge etc?
My logic for this action is, I don't have an ICE anymore so why try to spoof the ECU into thinking I have. The soliton controller will be my new ECU. 
If you do go the spoof root, just remember there's a lot of other things that you will have to spoof to get rid of other warning lights.
I gave up early on with that plan,

Having said all that, I haven't yet put the dash pod back in car yet with power on it so not sure what's going to happen 
The other option if I get problems is to remove the pod Guts and put a custom one in.

I think aircon would need engine running signals to work properly but I've removed my aircon, I don't need it.

Martin.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

EV Myself said:


> Thanks guys,
> I'm using the OEM drive by wire throttle so there is no switch on the "pot box".
> The message comes up on the smart dash LCD so taking the bulb out or putting tape over it does not work so well.
> Looking for something simpler than an arduino project, but this is the direction I may have to go.
> ...


Hi Alan,

Do you have the wiring schematics of the TT? If you think you would be helped by them, I can fix.

/ Peter


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

skooler said:


> Correct.
> 
> It was thundersky but I can't find the picture


Thread here From a new thread it sounds like there's also concern about leackage through the vent causing shorts in the pack. I've never heard of anyone reporting issues for any of these conditions, but maybe it's still too soon to tell as the oldest packs are going on 3-4 years and we're hoping for 8+.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

LiFePO4 cells aren't flooded with electrolyte. They have a very small amount of excess electrolyte in them. If you cut open a cell you might get a few drops out, not a bunch like in this picture. Jack and Pete have both demonstrated this with TS and HP cells.


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

Looks like the project is mostly completed:
http://audittev.blogspot.com/


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