# '97 Saturn SL Conversion



## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

Your list looks great. It will be a major project. 
Will use up a lot of your 2009, but if your like myself, you will be glad you did.
Keep us informed of your progress and or start a web site.
Interested in how you make the mounts, place the batteries, use the power steering and your Kat's 2000 watt circulating tank heater.

Did you say what battery voltage you are running?


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Thank you. I sometimes go a bit overboard with the planning. 

I'm hoping that I can get this done in a few months once the rest of the parts come in. Fortunately there are three people near me that have converted EVs that can lend a hand or a crimper if I run into trouble. 

I love taking stuff apart and getting it working again. I'm enjoying this, my wife just rolls her eyes. 

I will certainly put some progress reports up here. There are a few items I bought that I'm very interested in seeing working and I'd love to share the results.

I'm planning on 144v or 156v depending on battery type. I haven't settled on a particular battery just yet. I'm hoping that the LiFePO4 batteries will continue dropping in price or that Xellerion will release their NiZns before I really have to make a choice. PbA is good for work and back, but I'd love to be able to drive out to the EEVC meetings.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

You are converting my car!

Not sure if it would help, but you can check out my build thread (link in my signature) you find the info there useful. Your car is only a year younger than mine so its practically identical.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

I know.  I was happy to see other Saturns on here.  

I picked this one up in July from a small dealership that in turn got it from a government auction. The exhaust is in pretty rough shape, but the rest of it looks and runs great for having 161,000 miles on it (Anyone need an ICE?).

Your thread is quite helpful. Just the rear battery box (Which looks great BTW) dimensions alone will come in handy when it comes to design time. Did you end up using the fuel tank space?

Just looking at the Saturns on the EVAlbum it seems that other than some cosmetic differences they are mostly identical. I guess it saves time when you are building next years model.  

I'm almost ready to pull the engine. Did you guys both pull it up and out with a hoist? Is it possible to leave the transmission in place or do you have to wedge both out at the same time?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

if it is an automatic tranny you can leave it in (probably not your case) if it is a manual they need to come out together, you will want the tranny out anyway to make it easier to mate your motor to it anyways. Yanking both pieces at the same time shouldn't take ya more than a couple hours.

Brian

lots of pictures please!!!!


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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

BWH said:


> Thank you. I sometimes go a bit overboard with the planning.
> 
> I'm hoping that I can get this done in a few months once the rest of the parts come in. Fortunately there are three people near me that have converted EVs that can lend a hand or a crimper if I run into trouble.
> 
> I'm planning on 144v or 156v depending on battery type. I haven't settled on a particular battery just yet.


You cannot over plan. Also do not throw away or sell anything you remove for at least 3 months after the conversion is finished. Enjoy the ride!


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

rctous said:


> if it is a manual they need to come out together...
> 
> lots of pictures please!!!!


I was afraid that would be the case.  Ah well, just a few extra things to take off.

I borrowed a folder of my wife's Flickr account so I can put some pics up. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosathorns/sets/72157614783004485/ The ones that are up there are from when I just started. I have quite a bit more removed now but I'm finding it hard to take pictures when my hands are covered in black gunk.  I'll have to work on that. Once I break out the pressure washer that problem should go away. 



atzi said:


> You cannot over plan. Also do not throw away or sell anything you remove for at least 3 months after the conversion is finished. Enjoy the ride!


Making plans but never using them is over planning.

 Ack, I don't know if I can hold on to the stuff that long. I'm working out of a one car garage so there is a bit of a space issue. Is there anything you found that you needed to go back and use?


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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

> Ack, I don't know if I can hold on to the stuff that long. I'm working out of a one car garage so there is a bit of a space issue. Is there anything you found that you needed to go back and use?


Just some of the Items you might use over:
1. Gas tank is TUFF over 1/4" thick plastic, cut out the bottom and it will a great under engine splash shield. You can't purchase anything that good.
see:http://www.saturn.lynnautorepair.com/node/215
2. Parts of the old motor mounts to make the new ones. 
3. Right axle to motor brackets see: http://www.saturn.lynnautorepair.com/node/101 
4. Wiring, wiring shielding, underhood fuse box and relays.
5. Throttle cable brackets off ICE engine.
see:http://www.saturn.lynnautorepair.com/node/148













































Also measure everything you can think of NOW. 
Like...... position of the crankshaft center (needs to be center of motor armature)
Like...... ride height front and rear.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Cool, thank you. 

I already got the ride height but I still need the crankshaft center measurement.

I was definitely keeping the mounts and the electrical items. But instead of the gas tank I have a large thin sheet of aluminum that I was going to use to close off the bottom of the compartment.

I could keep the tank in case I ever make a range extending generator trailer. 

I was worried about making the drive shaft support but everyone seems to have come up with the same basic plan. Was it hard to attach the plate to the band around the motor?

Indeed the only thing I don't think I have a use for is the throttle assembly because I'm using the Hall Effect pedal.

Many thanks for the pictures as well, they really do come in handy.

I have to get better taking my own.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Hey, it's getting warmer out there... Sort of. 

While I'm not progressing as fast as some people , things are moving along here. I've uploaded more pictures. If anyone wants shots of anything specific let me know.

Mandi at Cafe Electric sent an e-mail to me the other day. She states that 'Everyone should receive their controllers by June 1st'. Since I'm halfway down the list right now I'm hoping that means mine should arrive early in May.

Manzanita Micro just came out with a set of Lithium regulators that work with my charger. I'm tempted to jump in on the Sky Energy group buy, but I can't think of any internal organs I can afford to sell at the moment.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

You're still doing better than me (breaks down and cires)


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Is your free time still being taken up by the jobs you mentioned on your thread?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Not exactly. I've been having some health problems for the last few weeks. Nothing serious, but enough to slow me down.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Ugh, that's rough. I hope you feel better soon.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Ok, my friend Ken and I finally got around to pulling the engine Sunday. I've got some pictures in the usual place, but not so many this time around. It was a bit humid out and it played havoc with the camera.

I've been doing a bit of research into the S-series suspension. It seems that the SW model is 250lbs. heavier than the SL, all in the rear. Plus a few sites have said that the SW2 version has an upgraded suspension for extra carrying capability. So I'm thinking that SW2 springs etc would be the perfect answer for a smaller/lighter rear battery pack.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

If you want, you can also add disk brakes to the rear to help it cope with the added weight. Disk brakes came standard on the ABS equipped models and its a 100% bolt on upgrade for the cars with drums on the rear. I'll be doing this upgrade when the time comes.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Cool, do you have a source for the upgrade? Will it affect the parking brake at all?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Auto wrecker. They came from factory if they had some higher end options (back then ABS was optional).

Yes, it will affect your parking brake, which is why you need to take the cables off the donor car as well. Brake lines should be replaced with new ones so I wouldn't bother taking used ones off a wrecked car.

If you want, you can also get all the parts new from any parts store or dealer, but it will be more expensive.

Its completely up to you if, or how you want to do the upgrade. Just thought I'd let you know you have the option. I don't know if there is an upgrade kit available online. I have seen similar kits for other vehicles.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

It's always good to know your options. Thanks.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Ok, I'm really lazy about updating this thing. 

The Zilla is here, I got in on the LiFePo4 order, and I sold the engine so that I could have some room to walk around. 

I'm currently restrapping the batteries to fit the boxes David85 made for me. They are a tight fit, but no real problems. Not bad considering they were build across the continent using Thunder Sky web data that didn't include the end plate dimensions.  I got some old ESD mats from work to place in the bottom for vibration dampening and slight insulation. I'm working on pics of this stuff.

I do have pics of some of the other stuff I've been up to the last few months. They are in the usual place. The best new addition besides the outdoor charging outlets would have to be finally getting someone to make the motor mount and driveshaft support. I think they turned out well, they were made by a pro racing shop so they should do the trick. 




























Hopefully I won't take so long to update next time.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I was wondering what happened to you. I sure hope those boxes will still fit. I remember trying to make them larger than needed just in case, hope it was enough...


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm around, just not posting as much. 

Don't worry the boxes are great. Width wise there is plenty of room, length wise it's a bit snug.  The second set of screws from the bottom of the compression plates bump up against the lower hold down bar. It keeps the batteries from sitting flat on the bottom, but with the mat in it levels out perfectly. Plus the screws just touch the bar so it keeps everything from shifting around.


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

I have no idea what it is really used for. I found it while wandering around an electrical supply store and thought that with some bending and drilling it could be used to hold my batteries in place.

They clip perfectly onto the compression plates on the sides of the TS battery strings and make a rock solid hold-down.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Daniel:

Pardon me for sneaking in here as I want to see how a fellow Saturn owner is doing ..


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

I would be doing better if I had remembered to use the outside diameter of the HV cable pass-through instead of the inside diameter when buying a hole saw. 

I guess that's what Dremels are for. 

I did manage to make the bracket to hold the charging plug where the gas tank neck was. I also picked up all of the conduit pipe, hanging straps, and pass-throughs I need to wire the car up. So once I get some 3/0 lugs and finish knocking holes in the battery boxes, actual wiring progress can be made.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

really liking all of the saturn conversions on here. That is my proposed conversion so I really enjoy watching all of these take shape.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Daniel:
I see how much your Saturn mount is like mine... I thought I had it on my thread BUT - Did not. Soooo I put it on there !

I designed mine but the speed- shop came close 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=172054&postcount=75


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> really liking all of the saturn conversions on here. That is my proposed conversion so I really enjoy watching all of these take shape.


Saturns are a really great car to work with. They have a very open and simple layout for a newer car, light weight with a high gvwr, and decent aerodynamics right out of the box. 

Tip, if you don't want to mess with power steering go with a '96 or older. They have a universal rack that swaps out easily the newer ones are more limited. I found that out too late. 

Dave K:

Wow, your setup is heavy duty.  I'm glad to see how similar they are. I know they work on drivetrain equipment all the time, but it'd good to verify they are on the right track. I gave them links to the EVAlbum & the forum here so maybe they saw your mounts.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

BWH said:


> Saturns are a really great car to work with. They have a very open and simple layout for a newer car, light weight with a high gvwr, and decent aerodynamics right out of the box.


not to mention that they are like a Lego car  lol everything comes apart really easily and goes back the same way! My daily work commuter is a '99 love it. It also may become the donor car for my future ev plans.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm a convert to saturns after seeing how they put my car together.

No rust will ever appear on the side panels or lower door edges,
Quarter panels come off with bolts (show me another car that you can do that!)
All side panels come off,
Bolt on door hinges instead of glued or welded (can be adjusted as they age)
Huge anti-roll bar on the front,
Lots of factory galvanized steel,
Low wind noise even at higher speeds,
Superb handling,

Advertised drag CD is 0.315 for the sedan (I suspect its closer to 0.3 but can't prove it)
Curb weight is 2200-2450lbs depending on transmission type and if the car is AC equipped. You won't find another car so roomy inside that is still so light AND has GVWR of 3200lbs.

Not very scientific, but my car got at least 35 MPG on the way home with average speeds well over 65 MPH. Not bad for a $750 car with 4 doors and seating for 5.

They're also REALLY stiff. I've tried to lift one front corner of the car off the shop floor even after all the EV drive and batteries were installed and the doors still open and close well with 2 wheels in the air. Guessing it weighs close to 300lbs *(EDIT: make that 3000lbs, not 300)* but not sure exactly until its measured.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Yeah this little Saturn is great. Extremely roomy inside and I alreay know where I'm going to be able to put all of the electric goodies even without having the car apart. I'm a couple inches over 6 feet tall and I am fairly comfortable when driving it so that is a huge plus for me.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

> Guessing it weighs close to 300lbs but not sure exactly until its measured.


 You lost me here. What weighs 300 lbs? Do you know how much the original ice weighed?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

tomofreno said:


> You lost me here. What weighs 300 lbs? Do you know how much the original ice weighed?


Bah! whats missing is an extra zero!

I meant to say the car weighs about 3000lbs right now. ICE weighed about 200lbs empty from what I have read. Starter battery maybe another 50~60, cooling package, emissions package, fuel tank, spare wheel, and other odds and ends are now gone.

Battery weighs about 750lbs, motor is about 130lbs, controller maybe 30lbs.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Package has cleared customs!

Last update was at 7:55Am this morning in nanaimo as "out for delivery". Takes me 2 hours to drive the distance from nanaimo to my door without stopping so maybe if I'm lucky I'll get it this afternoon. Heehee, usually I drive a little faster though.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

WOO HOO!! (apparantely my post is too short so now you all get to read this little tid bit  )


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Sorry I've been incommunicado. I've been throwing all available free time into working on the car. I absolutely must get done in time for the 21st Century Automotive Challenge. 

Latest stuff:
BMS boards mounted on the batteries but not fully wired yet.
All but two cable holes cut and protected in the three battery boxes.
Front boxes painted and mounted so I can see where everything else has to go.
Hole cut in the trunk & the rear box set in place. I'm going to pull it tomorrow morning to clean everything up and cut two more holes in the box for the front to rear conduit. Then that sucker is getting sealed and bolted down tight.
Charging plug mount made.
HEPA pedal mount made (and remade ) and all hooked up.
WarP 9 RPM sensor mounted.
All unneeded wires removed from the motor bay.
Cables, lugs, orange split loom, & heatshrink prepped.
So many other little things I can't think of right now.

Sorry I have no pictures yet. I took some, downloaded them, & then promptly lost them.  I'll bring a camera with me tomorrow.

Edit: Forgot the camera but found the older pics.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Long time no see. Any updates?


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

Some, not too much. I'll get some pics up later if I get a chance.

I didn't get the car finished for the 21st Century Automotive Challenge, but I borrowed a friends EV and had a good weekend anyway. 

Due to an unforeseen financial crunch work on the Saturn has slowed down quite a bit. I'm using the time to think about part placement & circuits. I'm starting to dream about fuses and connectors though & I don't think that's healthy.  I'm looking forward to getting back out in the garage!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I had no idea how much was involved or how long such a project would take when I started out on it. Man, I don't regret it but what a journey its been. Can't expect things to go perfect all the time I guess. You'll get there eventually


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