# Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Jeff,

I see that you're in Chapel Hill, NC. I work nearby at RTP and my
employer has 4 Electric Vehicle parking spaces with outlets. So far
there are three of us taking advantage of this. As I understand it,
companies in Durham County get some sort of tax credit for EV support
but I don't know the details.

Good luck - De



> Jeff Andre <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Clearly the amps aren't free. Are the various workplaces providing this as
> > a perk? I assume it is being done with the knowledge/consent of the owner
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

> De Wrote:
> I see that you're in Chapel Hill, NC. I work nearby at RTP 
> and my employer has 4 Electric Vehicle parking spaces with 
> outlets. So far there are three of us taking advantage of 
> this. As I understand it, companies in Durham County get 
> some sort of tax credit for EV support but I don't know the details.

De,

Thanks for the info. I'm just getting started figuring this out, as I
mentioned. I suspect that this area as a whole will be fairly forward
thinking in this regard (particularly Chapel Hill), but individual
businesses I think are a different matter.

We'll see what happens if demand starts to rise.

Jeff Andre
Chapel Hill, NC

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

My office has 4 unused charging stations. They said if anyone shows up with an EV they will turn them on again. 

There are two Ford style and two Toyota ones....the vehicles were freebie loaners and the mnaufacturers have picked them up. The charging station just sit idle...

Are there any onboard charging parts available so that I can install them on my ride and use the existing charging stations? Is one superior to the other? 

Beta versus VHS? %^B

--
Mike Z
Santa Barbara 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Jeff,

There's a local EAA chapter that's pretty active, although I've missed
the last several months of meetings, you might have been coming
already  We meet monthly, work on our cars etc. When I started on
this, I found everyone in the club immensely helpful and they still
are. The website is:

http://www.rtpnet.org/teaa/

Good luck - De



> Jeff Andre <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > De Wrote:
> > > I see that you're in Chapel Hill, NC. I work nearby at RTP
> > > and my employer has 4 Electric Vehicle parking spaces with
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Hey Mike, 
You can buy an Avcon inlet that will let you use the "Ford" charging stations. I just put a 6-20 socket on the end of it as I have a 6-20 plug on my charger. I use the 6-20 at home on a 220 line from the garage and I use the Avcon inlet to charge at work. No problems. Keep in mind the Avcon only puts out 220 with no neutral so your charger has to be able to work on 220 or it's a no go. You can't use the ground and one of the hot legs to get 110, the safety will trip and shut the charging station down.

TiM





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

There are several US Electricars, which have the MagneCharger 
charge port, both S10 truck and Prizm sedan types that are
able to fast-charge from that port.
Occasionally the port is offererd for sale, but since it is
rather integrated with the controller's operation (which must
start up, close the contactors and support the operation of
the MagneCharger) it is not often attempted to install one
in a conversion.
I am sure it can be done, you just need to figure out the
control signals that the MagneCharger port offers and tie
them to the inputs that your controller and/or your control
of the contactors and interlocks.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:35 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging

My office has 4 unused charging stations. They said if anyone shows up with an EV they will turn them on again. 

There are two Ford style and two Toyota ones....the vehicles were freebie loaners and the mnaufacturers have picked them up. The charging station just sit idle...

Are there any onboard charging parts available so that I can install them on my ride and use the existing charging stations? Is one superior to the other? 

Beta versus VHS? %^B

--
Mike Z
Santa Barbara 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Mike and All,
I can't really talk about the inductive ports, but I would suggest replacing the OEM stuff with a good old fashioned conductive RV style box (or at least a 14-50, 240 VAC at 50 amps). After all, the AC breakers and wiring are already there, so take advantage of the infrastructure! I've posted before about running my truck's on-board Zivan and off-board FrankenLester chargers simultaneously off of a 14-50 to get a fast bulk charge, or a slower charge using the 120 V side (or one charger at a time off of a 14-30 30 amp dryer outlet).
Suck Amps,
BB
>Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:34:40 -0800
>
>My office has 4 unused charging stations. They said if anyone shows up with an EV they will turn them on again. 
>
>There are two Ford style and two Toyota ones....the vehicles were freebie loaners and the mnaufacturers have picked them up. The charging station just sit idle...
>
>Are there any onboard charging parts available so that I can install them on my ride and use the existing charging stations? Is one superior to the other? 
>
>Beta versus VHS? %^B
>
>--
>Mike Z
>Santa Barbara 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*



> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > I am sure it can be done, you just need to figure out the
> > control signals that the MagneCharger port offers and tie
> > them to the inputs that your controller and/or your control
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*



> Peter wrote:
> 
> > a deal where they will pay 25% of your grid-tie PV system install,
> > provided it does NOT have batteries.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*



> Metric Mind <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Solar installation businesess, when they evaluate your power
> > neededs to size the panels, will tell you that unless you're totally
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*



> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> 
> Huh? What laws of physics are you talking about here??
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

What he is saying, is that their is no LAW requiring *you* to sell excess
power to the power company, it's just the nature of the equipment.
If you have a grid-tie setup and it generate excess power, that power goes
into the grid.

There are laws in most places requiring the power company to pay you for
this excess (at wholesale costs), but that is not the same thing as
requiring you to sell it to them.

If you wanted to, you could disconnect the panels....unless of course you
got some kind of rebate when you installed the equipment. If you did,
then the terms of the rebate may have some requirements.

At any rate this has very little to do with EVs anymore, and certainly
nothing to do with charging.

> Huh? What laws of physics are you talking about here??
>
> It's like enforcing regen on an EV just because it is capable of it,
> and prohibiting wasting kinetic energy using mechanical brakes if you
> choose to.
>
> Why can't you just disconnect your panels if you want and have open
> circuit voltage sitting on them for no purpose?? Why you must load
> them so they generate power and *then* sell (or waste) that power?
> It's like they don't allow you to simply turn it off.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>> It's mandatory due to the laws of physics, which enforce themselves...
>> If
>> you are generating more power than you are using, then it has to go
>> somewhere.... either into batteries, of if those are not present, back
>> into
>> the grid. Of course, whether you sell it to the utility at a reduced
>> cost,
>> at retail cost, or just give it to the utility is a matter of man made
>> laws
>> instead of physics.
>
>
>
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>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

When you focus on the monetary question, then you may
find a problem and decide that you don't want anybody to
profit from your investment, so you are going to waste
your excess....

If you look at the big picture of power generation and
the pollution it generates, you can see that it is
beneficial to send power back into the grid, even if you
do not receive full compensation for it, because you are
offsetting some of the power from a dirty power plant,
so it can pollute a little bit less.
In that vein, it always makes sense to reduce power
consumption where possible, even if you don't have to
pay for the power use, because in the end you pay anyway
either indirect or via the cost of the environment.

To get back to EVs: I do not care if my EV does not pay
for itself in sense of being better in cost than an ICE car.
I win, because it offsets a lot of pollution that a gas car
produces, especially in the first mile while it is warming
up and that pollution happens to end up in my neighborhood.
Using my EV, I create no such cold-start waste and I know
that the power plant is running way better efficiency than
any ICE, so in terms of energy use, I win as well.
Even if I need to pay more due to immature technology and
other factors.
That is the price of putting your money where your mouth is
and I gladly show that I stand behind my word.
I can also look my children straight in the eye when they
ask me what I contributed so that they can live the same
way I did.

Your mileage (and motivations) may vary.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging



> Metric Mind <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Solar installation businesess, when they evaluate your power neededs
> > to size the panels, will tell you that unless you're totally off grid,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

In Ga. (as I understand it) any extra energy generated during the day simply 
runs your meter backwards and thus lowers you electric bill by as much, 
unless you are really producing a lot of energy. If you produce more than 
you use, then it would seem to be a lage exspense for no reason, solar 
panels aren't cheap..... just my thoughts, help me out if I'm wrong.....

thanks
Josh
>
>> Solar installation businesess, when they evaluate your power
>> neededs to size the panels, will tell you that unless you're totally
>> off grid, if you generate in excess of what you consume, this excess
>> gets routed back to the grid and utility pays you (albeit not at the
>> same rate as you pay them). I can't recall exact wording, but I
>> remember this being mandatory setup, for some reason not optional.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

If you pay 14c a Kwh during the day, and 10c a Kwh at night.....and your meter runs backwards in the daytime.....you would pay nothing for the power you use during the day, and any extra that you spun the meter backwards would be a direct deduction from what you would use at night...A Kwh is still a Kwh so if you spin two hours backwards during the day it would be 28c and would give you almost three free hours at night.....at the lower rate of course.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

I have solar but not enough to take advantage of it in the following way.

In Fresno, California using PG&E credit is done by kilowatt. it is
possible with a time of use meter to sell power back at 23.5cents/kwh
during the summer days and buy it back at 5cents a kilowatt after
midnight to charge your car.

Having autonomy(storage) is not allowed as part of a grid tie system
because of safety. The fear is that during an emergancy or a service
disconnect that the system can backfeed and surprise a worker.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

My mechanical meter ran backwards just fine. They actually were required
to replace it with a digital meter because apparently they are "not as
accurate going in reverse" or so they said.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Isn't there a safety system available to disconnect from the grid in case of
an outage?
I know there is a system for back-up generators for the same reason.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging

I have solar but not enough to take advantage of it in the following way.

In Fresno, California using PG&E credit is done by kilowatt. it is
possible with a time of use meter to sell power back at 23.5cents/kwh
during the summer days and buy it back at 5cents a kilowatt after
midnight to charge your car.

Having autonomy(storage) is not allowed as part of a grid tie system
because of safety. The fear is that during an emergancy or a service
disconnect that the system can backfeed and surprise a worker.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*



> [email protected] wrote:
> > If you pay 14c a Kwh during the day, and 10c a Kwh at night.....and
> > your meter runs backwards in the daytime.....you would pay nothing
> > for the power you use during the day, and any extra that you spun the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Yes, grid tie systems do require a meter that is calibrated for both 
forward and reverse. It only measures KW so rates are from our power 
company. Here in California what you put in you get back out. They 
are not allowed to charge for any thing you put in. And if you want 
you can even do a cool system where you do all your major electrical 
use in the evening so if you do use more than you put in your rates 
are even lower than normal. If you have a home that is all electrical 
and you have no gas appliances you get a lower rate too. If you have 
gas your rates are higher. We are solar with a full electric home. No 
utility bills now for 3 years. Grid Tie.




> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > they insist on a special meter that meters reverse
> > power
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Not a problem with grid tie inverter. In the event of a power failure
the inverter doesn't work because it needs to use the timing of the
grid to synch with it.



> Andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Isn't there a safety system available to disconnect from the grid in case of
> > an outage?
> > I know there is a system for back-up generators for the same reason.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Yes, grid tie only inverters are current sources, not voltage sources -- so
without the grid to provide a voltage source within very tight
specifications, it will not inject any current into the AC wiring connected
to it. Generators are voltage sources, so are alot more dangerous to
connect to the grid (also, because they are voltage sources, they generally
have very bad things happen to them when you connnect another much larger
voltage source -- the grid -- to them without all of the equipment for
proper synchronization). Inverters that can do both grid-tie and
stand-alone operation are voltage sources, but have alot more complicated
software to handle the synchronization, and also to detect when the grid
looses voltage and to switch an internal transfer switch (like the external
transfer switch you'd use on a generator).

This is getting really off topic for this list though....

Z

On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 10:19 AM, storm connors <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Not a problem with grid tie inverter. In the event of a power failure
> the inverter doesn't work because it needs to use the timing of the
> grid to synch with it.
>
>


> Andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Isn't there a safety system available to disconnect from the grid in
> > case of
> > > an outage?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

Propane Backup Generator for the few times of power outages. Was far 
cheaper than using a full battery solar system. We have well water 
and needed to be sure we always have water. Cheaper than drilling a 
new well to put in a solar system for just those times. So generator 
is what we have. In three years we have not even used up our first 
tank of propane. 150 gallon tank. Almost never runs but is an auto 
start/stop set up. Sweet. Keeps power to the house for everything and 
I could even charge the EV so we will always have power for home and 
EV. For us it was the best solution. Some will need that battery 
setup for solar because there is no way to do a grid tie or the state 
does not allow for equal in equal out.

Pete




> storm connors wrote:
> 
> > Not a problem with grid tie inverter. In the event of a power failure
> > the inverter doesn't work because it needs to use the timing of the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Fw: Fast Charging*

In Corrupticut they buy back at retail as well. As far as I know, time
of day billing is not available. I console myself that I am being paid
the highest price in the USA for power I produce.



> Chuck Homic <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Cor van de Water wrote:
> >
> > > - Is your grid reliable?
> ...


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