# leaf cells



## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

muffildy said:


> So i have read a in a few places that the leaf battery pack costs 375$/kwh to produce.
> I was wondering if anyone can confirm this or knows a place that sells the cells?


Why would you want those cells ???


Roy


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## muffildy (Oct 11, 2011)

mainly price
if they really are 375$/kwh then that would make them cheaper than the other ones i know of. If there are any cheaper than that feel free to link them.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
I have bought Headway cells - 
about 6 months ago I was quoted $19.90 each for 16Ah cells 
(in quantities above 500)
That works out as $ 376/Kwhr

I only needed a few so I didn't get quite as good a price

I am sure that CALB or TS are cheaper again

I am quite sure that Nissan are getting a much better deal!


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

Here, do some reading on those batteries, maybe after reading you'll know why I asked why.....


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nissan_Leaf




Roy


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I don't see anything wrong with the Leaf pack. I bet those performance specs would be a good guideline for our LiFePO4 cells. They don't' like regular full charges; they don't like to be left at low SOC for extended time because there is parasitic loads; they don't like the cold to long as it can shorten life and reduce available capacity.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

EVfun said:


> I don't see anything wrong with the Leaf pack. I bet those performance specs would be a good guideline for our LiFePO4 cells. They don't' like regular full charges; they don't like to be left at low SOC for extended time because there is parasitic loads; they don't like the cold to long as it can shorten life and reduce available capacity.


Never said there was anything wrong with them. He was comparing prices, now I dont know how those batteries are set up, but my guess would be, you would need its charger and possible other items to make that work in a conversion.

By the time you get all the hardware and assorted wiring and instrumentation, you would be better off with what we know, the large prismatics were used to.

Unless your familiar with the Leaf, its an unknown equation.

Roy


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I've never been able to believe the prices that people say that the cells, modules, or whole pack costs. Nissan, Chevy, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Mitsubishi, Toyota, and Tesla along with whoever else is also using Lithium Ion cells in their electric and hybrid vehicles are all getting them at a large volume discount and have the economies of scale behind them with their assembly. There is no way that I believe it costs $375 per kwh for Nissan's Leaf pack. I would believe that if it were Nissan's 'retail' or 'list' price to try and lift the cars perceived value. I think these auto manufacturers are lying a little whenever they say that they aren't that profitable. By removing the expensive and parts laden engine, transmission, and other expensive parts they are taking a bunch of cost out of the car, add a motor which isn't going to cost them a ton and then batteries and I think they still make a decent amount on the car.

I'm pretty sure there is no way that Nissan will sell you a pack and AESC doesn't sell them to anyone else either. Just in the same way that Honda or Toyota will only sell a replacement hybrid pack to a dealer who will do the labor of installing it too and the NiMh cells they use are not available outside of ridiculous volume quantities.


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## muffildy (Oct 11, 2011)

So far the cheapest found are:
54$ for 3.2 40ah CALB ~422$/kwh from evsource
52$ for 3.2 40ah thundersky ~406$/kwh from evassemble (import fees)
65$ for 3.2 50ah Hipower ~406$/kwh from evsource
15.5$ for 3.2 10ah headway ~484$/kwh from evassemble (import fees)

So price wise it looks like Hipower from evsource is the cheapest i can find so far.
Where did you find the 16ah headway for that low? cheapest i can find is 25$ or so.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2011)

EVfun said:


> I don't see anything wrong with the Leaf pack. I bet those performance specs would be a good guideline for our LiFePO4 cells. They don't' like regular full charges; they don't like to be left at low SOC for extended time because there is parasitic loads; they don't like the cold to long as it can shorten life and reduce available capacity.


Nissan never said they don't like full charges. They actually do just fine. I charge to full all the time. True, I would not leave mine sit empty. The cold seems to be fine but there is a noticeable difference in range. There is a main battery pack temp gauge. Mine has never gotten to the point where I can't charge the car. It will prevent you from charging if it gets too cold. The link above gives some good information that is pretty much correct as far as driving distances. Have a look. Since I drive mine daily I know. Below is also posted in the driver manual. So don't bake your car in the winter sun for over 24 hours. Its ok for the duration of your shift at work. Don't freeze your car either in temps you find in the midwest but that is for over 7 days. Takes longer to freeze than bake. So far fast/quick charging has shown no detrimental effects on battery capacity. I can't quick charge yet but when I can I plan on doing it a bit. I have leaf mine at full SOC for 14 days and there was no change in capacity. When I got back I went for my normal drive to work and back and found no change in what I normally get for a charge. Kinda thinking that is bunk. Bet it takes much much longer than 14 days to discharge the main pack while its just sitting. 

Avoid exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120 °F (49 °C) for over 24 hours.
Avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures below −13 °F (−25 °C) for over 7 days.
Avoid exceeding 70 to 80% state of charge when using frequent (more than once per week) fast or quick charging.
Allow the battery charge to go below 80% before charging.
Avoid leaving the vehicle for over 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge).


As for buying them. Forget it. In my opinion the cells are excellent.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

muffildy said:


> So far the cheapest found are:
> 54$ for 3.2 40ah CALB ~422$/kwh from evsource
> 52$ for 3.2 40ah thundersky ~406$/kwh from evassemble (import fees)
> 65$ for 3.2 50ah Hipower ~406$/kwh from evsource
> ...


You will find the price of $1.25 per ah for CALB in the dealer sales on this forum.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

"Avoid leaving the vehicle for over 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge)."

There might be something lost in translation or a typo perhaps, because I read that as leaving the car for over 14 days -when- the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero state of charge. That would make more sense.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2011)

I know what it means but had to post what I did. It basically means don't leave your vehicle sit empty or near empty for over 14 days. The car remains monitoring the vehicle while sitting. It is the parasitic loads that will be a problem. You don't want to over discharge the cell. 

Pete 

Kind of a funky way to word it but it does work.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

cruisin said:


> You will find the price of $1.25 per ah for CALB in the dealer sales on this forum.


Headways are always going to be more expensive than the large format prismatics.... Winston/Sinopoly doesn't seem to have a reliable distribution channel in the states at this time. CALIBpower has been distributing CALBs for $1.22/ah from their warehouse in AC with speedy delivery and good support....


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Re Headway cells at less than $1.25/Ah - 

I got mine from Lorraine - email jon1981 <[email protected]>

Very nice lady, very easy to deal with. 

Direct from China

Why are people nervous about buying from China?
I have not heard of anybody being ripped off buying from China

But buying from the USA - there have been several cases of dodgy deals!

It may be cheaper for you guys to buy from the USA because of shipping costs but in New Zealand everything has to be shipped!


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

You should be able to get Calb batteries for $1.20/Ah or maybe less from Calib power in California. I got them a year ago for $1.21 or $378/Kw. 

Also I think it was JRP3 who bought about the same time I did for like $1.15 from a company called Powerscanner. May be two words, don't know. 

Also there's Sinopoly going for near $1/Ah if you can find a dealer.

These are all large prismatic cells which make for easy installation. Headways, Panasonic etc require a ton of labor and some special skills to assemble properly but one cell failure isn't so expensive as with a prismatic. 

All prices are US dollars BTW.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> You should be able to get Calb batteries for $1.20/Ah or maybe less from Calib power in California. I got them a year ago for $1.21 or $378/Kw.
> 
> Also I think it was JRP3 who bought about the same time I did for like $1.15 from a company called Powerscanner. May be two words, don't know.
> 
> ...


The prices you are quoting for CALB are not current nor are they realistic. Best prices for stock is $1.25 ah at [email protected]. Additionaly, there is currently no stock in 180ah cells in CA. Stock is due in mid January.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

On many news reports you can google that the replacement batteries for the leaf cost around 10000 dollars estimated replacement cost. However, there are many reports that say that the batteries will be at 80% capacity after 8 to 10 years. 

Just a simple google search.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

cruisin said:


> The prices you are quoting for CALB are not current nor are they realistic. Best prices for stock is $1.25 ah at [email protected]. Additionaly, there is currently no stock in 180ah cells in CA. Stock is due in mid January.


There was a post on here recently of purchasing Calb for about the same that I did. Personally I've not spoken with anyone about them lately but when I purchased mine they were selling for $1.25 and I negotiated them down to the price I paid.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> There was a post on here recently of purchasing Calb for about the same that I did. Personally I've not spoken with anyone about them lately but when I purchased mine they were selling for $1.25 and I negotiated them down to the price I paid.


 
WHEN, if early 2011, that was a long time ago and should not be considerd valid. Some may think that to be misleading.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

It wasn't JRP3. He has had his cells much longer than that - over 2 years I think. I think he bought his from the same place as me, evcomponents. I paid $1.10/Ah plus shipping to my home from Washington state in early 2009. 180Ah CALB cells (SkyEnergy then).


ElectriCar said:


> You should be able to get Calb batteries for $1.20/Ah or maybe less from Calib power in California. I got them a year ago for $1.21 or $378/Kw.
> 
> Also I think it was JRP3 who bought about the same time I did for like $1.15 from a company called Powerscanner. May be two words, don't know.
> 
> ...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

It was me. I paid $1.12 /ah. 

The other chap from New Zealand is right. No one that I could find at the time got screwed from Chinese. . . only from USA dealers. Sad but true. I've bought direct more than once. No problems.


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