# (Dis)advantages of a hybrid synchronous AC motor



## neuweiler (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm thinking about buying a Brusa HSM1-6.17.12 for my conversion of a Volvo S80 2008 2.5T (1600kg / 3200lbs, 200HP, 300Nm). The peak power of the hybrid synchronous motor offers 220Nm and 96kW peak power. 

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a hybrid motor? How long will the permanent magnets hold in such a motor? Can it do regenerative breaking? Will this motor be able to propel a 1600kg car to 100kmh (60mph) within approx. 10 seconds?
Should I rather go for a Brusa ASM1-8.24.10 (nominal 36 kW/193 Nm, peak 87 kW/540 Nm), an HPEVS AC75, a Warp 11 or a Siemens from evtv (assuming price is not the primary issue but a good fit and a satisfying performance to promote the idea of electric cars - not a race car). As I live in a mountainous area, regen breaking would be a great thing.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

As for cost I'd go with the Siemens motor. I drive a Leaf and a motor of that size would do you good. My Leaf can do 0 to 60 in under 10 seconds. Hills will take lots of power from your battery so size your battery accordingly. I only have a 24 kW pack. Kinda small. Go for a larger sized pack. It also depends upon what your converting? Once they figure out the software and hardware for the DMOC controller you could use one of those as well for a very decent price.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

neuweiler said:


> I'm thinking about buying a Brusa HSM1-6.17.12 for my conversion of a Volvo S80 2008 2.5T (1600kg / 3200lbs, 200HP, 300Nm). The peak power of the hybrid synchronous motor offers 220Nm and 96kW peak power.
> 
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of a hybrid motor? How long will the permanent magnets hold in such a motor? Can it do regenerative breaking? Will this motor be able to propel a 1600kg car to 100kmh (60mph) within approx. 10 seconds?
> Should I rather go for a Brusa ASM1-8.24.10 (nominal 36 kW/193 Nm, peak 87 kW/540 Nm), an HPEVS AC75, a Warp 11 or a Siemens from evtv (assuming price is not the primary issue but a good fit and a satisfying performance to promote the idea of electric cars - not a race car). As I live in a mountainous area, regen breaking would be a great thing.


In England is a cheaper supplier of the Siemens DMOC645 combo for Europe. Check ebay.co.uk. It's by far the best Kw/Euro option.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Hi neuweiler,

In 2010 I was tempted to buy also a Brusa motor controller combo, but I choose the EVE M3AC60/4 and the Tritium Wavesculptor 200 instead.

Together with probably one of the tiniest (headway) traction packs for EV's (14.4kwh in the bmw Z3) I get approx 100kw of electrical power being deliverd to the motor. The acceleration depends on battery (and its resistance) motor torque & gearing. You can calculate the acceleration including drag, gearbox efficiency, motor torque & decay due to over-speed etc. I did this before buying components to know what is possible and what the performance results should be 

About choosing components, check what regulations apply in your country, AC/PMAC is probably easier to pass safety (ECE R100) regulations than DC regarding chassies - traction pack leakage.


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## neuweiler (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for your response. That was good information. After checking back with some guys who got the Siemens/DMOC combination running, I've got the impression as there's still some R&D necessary to make it roadworthy - and there's no warranty on anything. I think I'm taking on that challenge a bit later.

@Jan: I was able to find only one seller on ebay for the DMOC but not the Siemens. 

@steven: Thanks a lot. EVE is the outcome of MES-DEA, isn't it? MES-DEA was known for poor customer support. Is EVE better? Of course their products are great. Do you think, a wavesculptor would be able to drive a Siemens motor? Yes, local regulations.. I'll get an O.K. from the street admission department before even starting. Fortunately they're offering this service here in Switzerland. I checked your blog, looks really interesting! Next time you come closer to Switzerland, let me know.

I was able to find some answers to my own questions in the meantime:
The advantage of a hybrid synchronous motor is that the torque remains very high over a much broader rpm range. Meaning, you don't have to shift at 2000-3000rpm as with an AC75 but only around 4000-6000rpm. --> even with leaving the manual transmission in, it should feel much more like an automatic transmission because in most cases you don't have to shift.
The only disadvantage I could find is that it contains some rare-earth magnets to compensate for the back-emf. With high temperatures they could de-magnetize. But in a water-cooled motor this should be no issue (I hope).


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

neuweiler said:


> Is EVE better?


I tried to get the most basic product information & specifications from them so that I could buy their motors. Never bothered answering me.

There is a report here on DIY Electric Car that they apparently sold a completely unusable motor and controller to one team, IIRC the problem was that the specs and nameplate values on the motor were so much off that the motor always blew up the improper controller instantly.


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## shenrie (Nov 6, 2014)

I am thinking about converting car over to an electric hybrid. I found lots of components but I am struggling to find the "generator/motor-generator/hybrid synchronous generator-alternator-motor." Sorry for that, I have seen it referenced different ways. Can anyone tell me where the best place to find high output, lightweight, and hopefully inexpensive ones? Any information you can provide would much appreciated. As a side note, yes I know all motor technically can be made into a generator. I am looking for one though specifically engineered to do the job though. Thanks!


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