# EV Parts BULK BUY - Australia



## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

I'd really like to get started with an EV project this year, but to get the cost down as much as possible, I'd like to order in bulk to try and get a good discount for myself and others.

One down side of this method is that once the orders have been shipped to a central place, it has to be couriered to each individual person so that cost also has to be taken into account.

I'm happy to organise it, or let someone with more expertise organise it - but we need to start getting numbers. So who is interested exactly?

Some things may need to be imported, others won't.

Basically, we'll be ordering every part needed
Batteries, leads, controllers, motors, chargers, potentiometers, gauges - and whatever else is required. People can either put themselves down for 1 component or many, but the more people want it, the cheaper we might be able to get it!

Once we've got an idea of the interest, we can start searching for Australian and overseas distributors to find their prices for different quantities, and once that has happened we can set a final order date.

Due to the cost of these things, the payments would have to be made in full before the order can be made. For security, a special 'trust' bank account could be setup, but I need to research that further.


So, who lives in Australia and is interested in purchasing parts this year?


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## OzBarney (Mar 13, 2008)

alex said:


> Due to the cost of these things, the payments would have to be made in full before the order can be made. For security, a special 'trust' bank account could be setup, but I need to research that further.
> 
> So, who lives in Australia and is interested in purchasing parts this year?


Great idea alex, I guess you need a small group of people who are at about the same spot in their personal EV-development cycles? Also it might depend on what our individual plans are... Im just starting out, more interested in speed than distance (want to prove EVs are speedy not nerdy) and want to build something slinky with some resale value so I can sell it in 12 mo and do it all again, getting better each time.

What if I want an AC motor/controller instead of DC? What batteries will do the job? Im guessing Ill need Lithium eventually but might start with LeadAcid in case I trash them on day 1... .

These might be silly concerns or perhaps they just prove Im a bit too early in my dev-cycle to join you! Still, Im hoping your idea takes off, as it sounds helpful to have a group doing roughly the same thing at the same time...

Keep up the good ideas...


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## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

There are people out there!!

Yeah, probably after people who haven't started, or are very early in their EV development cycle.

I guess AC or DC motors are fine, we just need a supplier that will do both so that we can still maintain a discount. I've been looking at carsales.com.au for a donor car


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm in sydney but i don't know if i'll be buying parts this year. Have you checked out the AEVA (Austrialian Electric Vehicle Association) website? You will probably have more luck asking around there since more Aussies use that site. Where abouts in oz are you? If there is an AEVA branch where you live then I would definately talk to them if you want to do a bulk buy. That way it would still be local. I've got about 6 different searches on Ebay to send me possible donor cars and bikes... hehe


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

hi my names nathan im looking on prices on Li-ion batteries (phousphate) go to You would require 45 x 160-200Ah cells to make 144VDC motor(100hp) nominal.

I am the Australian agent for Everspring Global Ltd, the largest distributor of Thundersky batteries worldwide.

As a general guide, our pricing is based on volume.

List price http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm

Volume price break

Volume (Ah) Discount on List Price
Per Order Discount % 
less than AH 　 
200 0.00% 
1,000 5.00% 
3,000 7.00% 
5,000 10.00% 
10,000 15.00% 
15,000 20.00% 
20,000 25.00% 
40,000 28.00% 
60,000 30.00% 
80,000 30.00% 
100,000 32.00% 
200,000 33.00% 
400,000 34.00% 
600,000 36.00% 
800,000 38.00% 
1,000,000 40.00% 

The general ordering leadtime is 4 weeks and the warranty is for 1 year limited warranty against manufacturing defects.

I also supply a BMS $24.50 per cell plus $350 for the control unit.
www.ev-power.com.au
also www.evmotors.com.au
if you want to get some other advice on other aussie sources email me on [email protected]


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## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

When the cells arrive, what do they look like, how big are they, and how can they be connected together and what kind of space do they take up?

Since they are still so expensive, is it possible to use a hybrid SLA/LiON battery pack


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

I would suggest you contact Nathan Bolton at Convert-Ur-Car <www.converturcar.com>, who offers a complete conversion service, and can assist you in many ways. he can give you the type of li ion batteries and chagers for cheaper than evpower. this is what he said to me

looks like you have everything covered, there are a couple of minor things i am interested in though, but firstly we can talk motors. ok the 203-06-4001 (8 inch) is capable of moving a vehicle of that weight with no problem. it has a maximum voltage of 120 according to the warranty. the fb1-4001 (9 inch) on the other hand is more efficient than the 8 and is rated via warranty to 144v, not only that its more powerful.

is that $26000 with the vehicle? if you want a car that heavy to do that amount of km your looking at spending $26000 which brings me to parts.

why do you need a turbo timer? i assume its for the ventilation system to continue extracting hydrogen gas after the vehicle is stopped. if your going lithium that's eliminated.

your going to need a better charger setup than the 8 calibre if your going lithium. you'll need a zivan $2000
i get 160ah lithium for $237 au/cell 200ah for $296 au/cell plus shipping, handling and GST the control unit and sensors are the same price.

provided the finished product stays under 1500kg you'll get around 140km with the 160ah at 144v and 120km at 120v.

Kind regards

Nathan Bolton
Convert Ur car

www.converturcar.com
Mob : 0417418600
Sydney Australia

PS: this would be the one of the best in low prices in australia. he maybe might be able to get us cheaper stuff that the other companies overseas. so with these prices your going to atleast save $5000-$12000 compared to www.evpower.com prices, but im not sure how good the batteries will be?my opinion it will be good if not better because its coming from a true blue provider in sydney and its fare dinckom. what do you think??? 
im going to wait till i get the money to convert cant wait


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## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

In one post you say you're Nathan and the Battery distributor, and in another post you say you've been talking to that Nathan... wtf?


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

i was getting prices for the lithium iron rechargeable batteries. im not a battery distrubuter. the guy that helps with converting your car in sydney www.contverturcar.com his name is Nathan Boltan!!! same first name as mine!!sorry for the mix up.just giving you the costs from some companies


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## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

rightio


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

Thundersky will sell direct, much cheaper to import your own than to use an Aussie dealer, all the dealer do is a factory order and have them shipped to you, hence the lead time. However, lead acid are better than Thundersky lithiums, they are very poor quality hence the cheap price - avoid them, they will not last.

I ordered some to test and was very disappointed, and their are various BS excuses being offered such as they must be mounted in a certain way, if you know anything about lithiums that should make you laugh.


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

hey david have u tried a company called contverturcar in sydney or site www.converturcar.com this guy called nathan boltan can help you with buying li-ion thundersky batteries.from talking to him and the qoutes he has given me ,hell wont ripp you off with bad batteries.i would trust this local aussie company. try talking to him.if he cant help you in getting the right li-ion batteries then i dont know who would at a fordable price!!


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

Thanks Nathan, good to see that we are getting some local Aussie support. I just hope they realize what they are getting in to with Thundersky, like I said, I would rather use Pb than Thundersky cells having had experience with them in the past. 

A long time ago, I tried to warn the people on the EVDL about Thundersky however it took a few people to make some very expensive mistakes before they found out for themselves. Because they ordered direct from China they had little recourse. However if people order via an Aussie, the Aussie could end up being liable for faulty products, hope converturcar knows what they are getting in to.

Saying all this, the Thundersky Gen 3 cells are meant to be more consistant but I still doubt they have anywhere near decent cycle life and a no good for anyone wanting higher discharges. Again, reading that people are being told to mount Thundersky' in a certain direction to ensure they last just confirms they have longevity issues as that makes no sense at all for Lithium technology.


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

i goten the recent confermation on the 25th of march on the warrenty of thundersky batteries and the sydney company sparky or www.converturcar.com manager nathan boltan this is what he had to say on one of my emails saying in basic words thundersky company are now giving 8 year warranty.also the sparky in sydney do full checks before sending it to you. ive looked further into this company by asking a friend to check it out there plae personaly and there is nothing to say from there feed back from all customers that they will ripp you off. I belive this is probally the closes your going to get to pure aussie electric car convert operators that will give you a good price plus the very best satisfaction100%. if you dont belive me ask by email or call the converturcar company in sydney.well i think thats enough for me on this topic. i look foward to seeing other aussie BEV on te streets to and maybe mine if i ever get the money.good luck all in finding the right battery for you. and may your dreams come true. 

*Nathan Bolton* ([email protected])Sent:Tuesday, 25 March 2008 12:50:29 PMTo: nathan froese ([email protected])
hi Nathan,

i have just been informed that the thunder sky batteries come with a 12 month warranty. they are rated for 3000 charging cycles which covers charging every day of the week all year for 8 years. i take lots of photos during the construction process and take video footage of any experiments i perform. when we put a vehicle together we check and recheck before even thinking of turning it on. the rear batteries are housed upright within an insulated shell that has an outer layer of 1mm thick steel protecting it from the road. i forward any warranty's for parts to the customer and i give a standard 2 year warranty on any fabrication or electronics work performed by my staff or my self.

i hope this answers your questions

Kind regards

Nathan Bolton
Convert Ur car

www.converturcar.com
Mob : 0417418600
Sydney Australia


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

If anyone is still interested I think I would like to buy 16 3.2V 100Ah packs from lionEV at $3200 for a motorbike conversion. Though I would like to buy locally if possible. What price did you get for thunderskys from converturcar?


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

if could get enough people on board the deal i am negotiating the pack you want would be 16 x 3.2v 100ah= $2640 +shipping...if i get enough people


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

my mistake..your in australia...get ten people together and im pretty sure the company i am dealing with would ship a large order there,then somebody there would have to ship out the others in the group..


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

Are LionEV actually legitimate? I thought these were already known to be a scam? It is run by a guy named Ken Curry who went to prison for fraud in 2005.

I think the give away is they use a Yahoo email address and the home page has some really weird propaganda rant on it; telling people to keep their money at home - of course, while buying Chinese made batteries from LionEV! Dumb asses  

converturcar doesn't pass the sniff test either. It is not a registered Aus company or sole trader (hence the .com domain and not a .com.au) and is run by one guy who has only converted his own car. Nothing wrong with that however, claiming to have staff etc etc is also not truthful and should ring alarm bells. 

Nathan, of course we all know you are the Nathan that runs converturcar, you come across like the "Mall Ninja" expecting use to believe otherwise. You even write the same and both don't capitalize new sentences. If you are starting a business, be honest and try and pull one over on people.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

i can attest that lionev is legitimate in at least one respect.at least some of their conversions are being done right in my hometown.but that doesnt mean i want to pay their price for batteries


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

That's good to know. I wonder who's batteries they use and how good they are?

I think their battery prices are very good if they perform.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

No actually I've met Nathan and people he has done conversions for... Real person and a real company, the EV scene just isn't heaps big here in Australia. Also texomaEV, who has been on this forum for ages has been doing a lot of collaboration with lionEV and he highly recommends them. Maybe your scam radar is a little over-sensitive...


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

@ joseph, how many packs would you have to buy to get the bulk discount?


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

mattW said:


> If anyone is still interested I think I would like to buy 16 3.2V 100Ah packs from lionEV at $3200 for a motorbike conversion. Though I would like to buy locally if possible. What price did you get for thunderskys from converturcar?


i can get from nathan bolton converturcar manager a 160ah lithium for $237 au/cell 200ah for $296 au/cell plus shipping, handling and GST the control unit and sensors are the same price. a bit more than yours mainly because higher amphours.

 PS this is a email from nathan bolton not me!!!


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

David said:


> Are LionEV actually legitimate? I thought these were already known to be a scam? It is run by a guy named Ken Curry who went to prison for fraud in 2005.
> 
> I think the give away is they use a Yahoo email address and the home page has some really weird propaganda rant on it; telling people to keep their money at home - of course, while buying Chinese made batteries from LionEV! Dumb asses
> 
> ...


thats because thats the email he sent me. i agree with you but im not sure if 
converturcar is a big company because i live in perth.
I was at this sunfair renewable energy organic fair in perth UWA.this company called evshop in WA balcatta 146 balcatta rd 6021 and this company for sure 100% no bullshit are listed on the WA EVA http://www.waeva.asn.au/links.asp
the only thing is they dont have a detailed internet site have you heard of this company david?? i think this is the better qualified company than that converturcar which your most likely right is not a big notice company.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

matt,i tried to negotiate the deal for batteries to make 72 volt packs,so its 230-3.2v 100ah cells-165us/cell 18 month replacement warranty,no bms, includes shipping to port for me.if you guys down under get together i am pretty sure i can get the same deal.if you can coattail kiwiev's 15 minutes of fame you might be able to get ten or so people interested 

ps: i know he's from new zealand"this is whole other country"


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

mattW said:


> Maybe your scam radar is a little over-sensitive...


Could be  Then again, it is a fact that the guy who runs LionEV has been in prison for fraud, to me that rings alarm bells. 

EVs are a hot thing now and they will attract the get rich quick people so I'm very wary, maybe when they have a proven track record, I'll turn the scam radar down, however, $5,000 is a lot of money to risk.


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

nathan said:


> .....this company called evshop in WA balcatta 146 balcatta rd 6021 and this company for sure 100% no bullshit are listed on the WA EVA http://www.waeva.asn.au/links.asp
> the only thing is they dont have a detailed internet site have you heard of this company david?? i think this is the better qualified company than that converturcar which your most likely right is not a big notice company.


Those guys are legit for sure, seem to be a car repair place that also does EV stuff. Genuine registered business that has been around for a while. That is the kind of place I'd look for, although with EVs being new I guess they are hard to find. 

Simply, if you are getting 18 months warranty on a battery pack, you want to go with a company that will still be around in 18 months!


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

how many decades was bear stearns around?they went belly up basically overnight.all i am saying is ...i wouldnt buy from a company that started yesterday,but history is replete with companies that went under after being around for a long time.


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## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

Wow, the website has a new logo now! It looks great

Joseph - what price can you offer, and what is the minimum ah you need?


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

the deal im working on is for a u.s. buy as the batteries will be shipped to a port in bulk.the price i have is for 3.2v 100ah batteries ,lifepo,no bms,18 month replacement warranty,which i am planning to get extra batteries to have on hand for ready replacements.the price is 165us/battery + shipping from the port nearest to me(probably philadelphia).again its a bulk buy and i have to get 230 batteries(10 packs 72v 100ah).i can probably steer the guys in asutralia into a deal with the same company,if they want to do it as well.i am having samples sent as we speak so i should have some testing available soon.i plan on beating the samples to death.  gotta see what they're made of right?


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Would it be possible to buy the cells from you at that $165/cell price and just get them shipped to Sydney? I don't know what the regulations are for international battery shipping, or what taxes etc I'd have to pay but that could potentially save me a lot of cash...

Nathan, do you know if convert ur car has any smaller packs? I'm only doing a motorcycle conversion so 100Ah is probably heaps... I'm assuming those were 3.2V cells.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

i think the shipping would be astronomical,its 75 kilos of batteries for 72v 100ah.if i could get enough interest in this deal i could probably go to china and ship direct to you,but i have no idea what it would cost(for the shipping,not the trip  ) im kinda leaning toward making the trip to ensure shipment of whatever amount i do end up getting.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

matt,the manufacturer is sending me a quote but here's what i got.
3.2v 60ah with bms (23)
$106 ea. $2438
$850 shipping to sidney(air)

$3288 72v 60ah with bms 18 month warranty

thats a lot less than buying with my order and having me ship to you.if you can get a few more people involved the price goes down quite a bit with larger orders that they can ship by sea.but then you have your customs fees on top of the price......


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

So are these the same batteries as LionEV or is it a different supplier? When were you planning on doing this? I can't believe how much cheaper Lithiums have got =D


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

matt,this deal is all yours.nobody else involved,just you and the manufacturer.email me for the details if your interested.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

no not lionev's supplier,the manufacturer says they dont have any sales in u.s. right now.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

matt,sorry about that,i didnt do the exchange rates.its $3542aud total with shipping.check with your customs agency,i dont know if australia has a free trade agreement with china or not,it may not cost you much for customs fee on a large order if they do.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

I think we do but I just sent an email to customs just to check... hopefully these batteries stand up to your tests. Do you know anything about the quality control at the manufacturers end? I was going to go with thunderskys but their poor discharge, patent issues and bad record are putting me off. Hopefully this company is much more trustworthy.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

our customs fee here is 3.4%.not too high.as for the patent issue,i am content to let the big boys fight that out,that could take years i am not waiting that long for these batteries.as far as tests and quality,i just recieved my battery yesterday,i can only speak to their quality as far as the one i have in my hand.i will post a pic tonite.performance wise i have only connected it to a large motor to get high amp draw but no load on the motor.the battery came charged at 13.4v(i had them put 4 20ah cells together)and when connected drops to 11.4v.as soon as disconnected jumps right back to 13v and visibly starts climbing back up till it hits 13.37v and holds there. i didnt attatch the amp gage yet (later tonite)but i know from previous tests of this motor that it pulls 70 amps no load at 12.8v.so i am guessing a 3c discharge rate at the moment,but i am only holding that for about a minute until i get more instumentation on it.the terminals are only slightly warm to the touch not hot at all,the claim is 5c for 15 seconds,i am going to put that to the test as soon as i get home tonite!


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Has any Aussies here had any dealings with Foundry and fiberglass? He appears to be offering good rates on thundersky products ATM 
Currently his site says the following

 Base price $2.40 per amp hour, any amount.
Larger packs can generate better pricing down to as low as $1.83 per amp hour. Discounts for group buys available. Make a purchase with your friends purchase and save.

In a recent email he said this
"I will be putting in another order for Thundersky batteries in a week or so. If you are interested in getting in on the same shipment, I can cut the cost by freight sharing, to $1.73/ah." 

That's seems to be a pretty good price IMHO


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Yeah the best quote I've had so far is $2.50 per Ah... I'll be looking to get 24 60Ah batteries later this year if you are keen to go in with me... Does he offer BMS and chargers?

I've been told that they overate their current capacity, in reality its 2C continuous and 5C peak... But that still is sufficient for my application. Just thought I'd let you know.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm waiting on money ATM before I begin my conversion So I dont know when ill be ready for batteries but I'm doing all the research I can so I'm prepared for the shock

Foundry and Fibreglass
check out his Hilux 

they do a really cool bms but it's not suitable for a bike. It's a 8 inch touch screen looks VERY COOL

He's converted his Hilux to LIFePO and recons "He'' never drive on anything else, EVER

The following is from here http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FORUM1/forum_posts.asp?TID=902&PN=1&TPN=1

_ Some futher performance details of the Thundersky Lithium batteries. 

Acceleration 
0-60km/hr in 10 seconds 
0-80km/hr in 18 seconds 
0-100km/hr in 29 seconds 
All measured on relatively flat ground. I am not happy with these tests, the vehicle is 420??kg lighter and it feels to accelerate quicker, but anyhow that’s the numbers measured. 

Amp draw 
at 60km/hr between 50-100amps 
at 80km/hr between 120-150amp 
at 100km/hr between 180-250amps. 
All measured on relatively flat ground. 

Range 
Have done 140km driving at 80km/hr using approx 25kw according to the screen. 
Have done 93km driving at 100km/hr using 20kw, so should be able to drive 93km / 20kw x 25kw = 116km using 25kw. 
This should still leave some capacity spare as the batteries are 200ah x 144v = 28.8kw 

Cost 
Driving 40km on 10kw is according to the BMS screen. Yes, Gordon this does make 10kw x $0.06 / 40km x 100km = $1.50 per 100km, but not correct due to the losses in the charging system etc. This is the same with driving 140km using approx 25kw. 

Had driven 112km mostly at 100km/hr and used 24.5kw according to the screen. The Kw measured at the supply meter box was 37kw. Dollars then would be 37kw x $0.06 / 112km x 100km = $1.98 per 100km 

Driven a total of approx 635km. These batteries have been sold and the new owner is using them in a 4wd, main application as an electric farm tractor. 

These batteries are far superior to lead acid, even the speed controller can see the difference, it does not get as hot. I did not notice any thermal cut back at all. And its not that we now have cooler weather, after swapping back to the Powersonic, I have noticed the thermal cutback._


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

how big a pack are you looking at? I can't believe that $1.73 per Ah price, that is insanely cheap. I'll probably be getting my pack in the next 6-12 months. Do you know where the company is located?


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

If I do it (and it's a BIG if) I'll want 120-144V of 160AH.

When I read through the blog of his Hilux I think I saw Kutabull Queensland mentioned somewhere (Dunno where that is).

The guy that runs the show is Trev Richards. He's very willing to discuss thing and encouraged me to ask questions, he says he likes helping people
Read through his blog and email him. I dont think he makes an order too often tho as he waites until the order is big enough to get the max discount possible. He said the last order was 9 months ago.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Matt FYI 
Just got an email from Trev @ F&F.
I asked him wether the $ per Ah quote includes customs, GST and freight. Also asked him about other brand BMS (I like the thundersky BMS but that screen is a bit big to integrate into a dash)
This is his reply


Hi Shane,
Yes the price of $2.40 includes import costs, GST etc. Freight from here to you is extra. This pricing is as a one off order. If you know of others also wanting to order and can order at the same time I can give better pricing.
There are other BMS units around, but I don’t know anything about them. Thundersky will only extend the 12 months warranty if the Thundersky BMS is used with either Thundersky charger or Zivan NG3 charger set up for Lithium Ion, is used.

Thanks
Trev


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## alex (Oct 27, 2007)

Hrm, I'm still interested!

Damn Lithium is expensive - but it seems like the only real way to go!


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