# NZ "Standard" DIY electric vehicle



## linz (May 18, 2008)

I was thinking what would be the ideal conversion car in each bracket for NZ.

Considering such things as:-
-availability of old or new spare parts for the life of the ev
-ease of uprating the brakes if required
-easy availability and long life of popular donor vehicle
-weight carrying capacity (max diff between normal and GVWR)
-passenger cell separated from battery compartments
-aerodynamic or could be modified
-suspension can be modified easily or stiff enough
-safety of car especially if heavy battery load
-donor vehicle similar across years and models
-likely performance of vehicle as a ev

bracket types could be:-
-ute, usually 2-person but very suitable for ev conversion. can carry alot of battery weight, not always aerodynamic, maybe easier to uprate suspension
-small car, save on batter costs for light-weight town runabout, not always safe and low load carrying ability
-car, for comfort and its a standard "car". likely have batteries inside passenger cell
-sports, potential to get the short range performance of an expensive petrol sports at less cost and little running cost, for a mid or rear engine can place batteries outside passenger cell front and back.

for ute have seen mazda b2000, sports mr2 on evalbum that are common in nz, but for small car and car not to sure. this forum could be good to get an idea of a standard conversions that might in future work on standard designs and trusted cheap suppliers and make it easier for people to get started.

any ideas?


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## MaverickNZ (May 14, 2008)

Sounds like a good idea to me. I was thinking of converting a honda jazz. its small and has heaps of leg room for 4 adults. it would be a short/med (in EV terms) range city run about.

One with a CVT gearbox would be perfect if of course you can modify the gearbox in such a way that it works with an electric motor


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

I dont know much about CVT but people have dealt with it in conversions-
http://www.google.com/custom?site=e...lbum.jpg;S:http://evalbum.com/;FORID:1;&hl=en
email them? Have read it being used in a number of commercial cars like the honda civic hybrid and a belgium ev company.

theres lots of good statistics on the ltsa website on number of vehicles registered. 
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statistics/motor-vehicle-registration/index.html
the honda jazz is in top 20 registrations, 15th in 2005, 9th in 2006 & 10th in 2007. 

Its also known as the honda fit in japan and americas, see wikipedia-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Fit

Could not find any conversions of it so far on the web, plenty of honda civics as tho as they have been around since 1972. (fit since 2001).

There is a guy in brisbane who converted a toyota echo which looks pretty professional, similar type of car perhaps? could check out his suppliers.
http://www.evalbum.com/566

found weight specs below on for a uk variant, might be similar http://www.buyacar.co.uk/technicalSpecificationyq8551.jhtml
GVWR 1510kg, curb weight 1041kg, max load 469kg. not sure if thats good or not for batteries plus 4 or 5 people max?

* Weight and Capacities* Fuel Tank Capacity (Litres) 42 Gross Vehicle Weight 1510 Luggage Capacity (Seats Down) 845 Luggage Capacity (Seats Up) 353 Max. Loading Weight 469 Max. Roof Load 37 Max. Towing Weight - Braked 1000 Max. Towing Weight - Unbraked 450 Minimum Kerbweight 1041 No. of Seats 5 Turning Circle - Kerb to Kerb 9.8
hope this helps.


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

For the sports car, you could use a Chevron or a Fraser replica of the Lotus Seven - heres why

Built in NZ with a steady customer base
Pretty much unchanged design since its release
Very basic in construction and maintenance
Low lying body and very light weight

Theres not much room for batteries and even less if you want a gearbox though. I plan to put the motor where the gearbox would be and run it direct drive - with this, I can use the engine bay for batteries if I want to carry passengers.


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

check out these guys who have done a VERY impressive lotus 7 kit car conversion- http://www.electric7.com/ and details on http://www.electric7.com/construction.html

They have done what you were thinking of, direct drive electric motor in transmission tunnel with batteries and controller in the engine bay. They combined several salvaged prius NiMh battery packs. Its a question whether in NZ there are enough Prius's to have that resource. But lithium may be possible. There is some talk about Thundersky, I have read on the US sites that they have had bad experience with them http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td16694058
but sounds like they are getting better. There is a local supplier in Australia. Its difficult to say whether he or the manufacturer would be willing or able to honour any warranty. The performance must be SO much better over lead acid though.

I did not realise there were so many replica manufacturers in NZ,
http://www.donsautopages.co.nz/kitcarmanufacturers1.htm#nzkitcars
they would also be a good resource for engineering the motor - transmission adaptor plates for conversions. For the converter willing to spend a bit of cash, a new replica sounds like a good option. 

In terms of used sports cars there are many Porsche 914 on evalbum, but i dont even know if there are any in NZ, there are a few older MR2, RX7 and MX5. Also RX7 and Datsun 1200 racing conversions.


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

Alot of sports cars are worn out, due to NZ's love of motorsport and participation - the price of a suitable 240Z will easily reach $10k, and other classic cars are not much cheaper. I do have a 1991 300ZX shell ready to repower, but I would rather use a very light car for an EV to up the power to weight ratio.


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## MaverickNZ (May 14, 2008)

I just thought of something. We could develop a kit for sale or even sell premodified and certified EVs


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

yes, a lot of the sporty type cars in new zealand have been thrashed. I suppose it would'nt matter too much about the engine (apart from resale value) but the rest of the car might be shot too. An option would be cars that are frequently modded into sporty cars (buying in unmodded condition, not thrashed), then there would be an aftermarket parts and knowledge for uprating brakes and suspension. One that comes up often is civic. There are many (non-sporty) conversions on the evalbum mostly 4th gen (88-91), with some of the comments quite positive about it. Civics, being a long time good seller in nz, should be easy enough to get. with lead acids, it will be a real steep performance vs range choice.

standardising to a kit would be good, would allow alot more people to do or buy a conversion. Especially if nz machine shops are used and cheaper parts maybe sourced from asia, should be able to beat US kit prices?


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Heretic said:


> For the sports car, you could use a Chevron or a Fraser replica of the Lotus Seven


Have you looked at the going the Locost way with your seven. With a Locost you could use tubing with a heavier wall thickness or larger tubes to increase the load carrying capacity of the chassis to match your battery load. You can manipulate various compartment sizes and tunnel dimensions to suit your batteries and motor. The whole chassis could be reproportioned around the EV components you plan to use. Once you no longer have an engine to build your bracing around you could achieve better triangulation of the engine box for better torsional rigidity. 

You could use a gutted (removing all the gears no longer needed) FWD gearbox mounted in the back (with an independent rear end) and adapt your motor on to it and free up the tunnel to use as additional battery space. Once you have your motor trany unit sorted you could also add an additional unit in the front to make the car 4WD if you can adapt suitable front spindles and come up with a workable geometry. This would allow for some serious acceleration as all of the cars contact with the road generates grip for driving the car forward.


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## Heretic (May 8, 2008)

Going the Fraser way (basically a locust), you can order it to suit your needs, but its not what you'd call cheap. The best part about it is theres so many options, that they basically custom build every car to its requirements


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

going back to different types of vehicles, roughly counting up the cars on the evalbum show these popular conversions for cars that are available here-

-Sport:- mx-5, rx-7, crx, mr2 
-Passenger:- civic, escort
-Ute:- mazda b-series (& re-badged courier), hilux, l200
-Racing:- not sure, check nedra? at least a datsun 1200 & rx7 

all older models, but for lead acid budget conversions advantage of requesting plans, tips, suppliers and kits from the converters.


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## E_power (Jun 3, 2008)

Heretic said:


> For the sports car, you could use a Chevron or a Fraser replica of the Lotus Seven


It looks like the "7" is a popular choice for conversion as there is a commercial variant available called the Thorr... http://www.thorr.eu/










In the Electric7 that linz posted they have managed to fit batteries in both the front and rear compartments.


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

While I like the lotus seven type aproach to the sports car which is a kind of performance through lightness, less is more, minimalist philosohpy based car. If I was going to go to the trouble of building such a car as an EV I would want to re-engineer the car around my EV components so that I realy did get the minmum car with the most efficient structure I could build using cheap and readily available materials and parts. In violation of the basic philosophy a roof and doors would hugely improve the user friendliness of the car. This is one of the types of car I had considered before settling on a conversion. I got as far as drawing up some basic layouts before desciding a roof and doors were manditory in a daily driver and that it was unesesarily difficult in its execution for a first EV. Making it aerodynamic for good range would also have been a chalenge. When time permits I may revisit the specially designed locost EV idea.


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## jinx (May 4, 2008)

Righto.

I've just been watching for a while and reading up on various posts, articles etc all over the web. I also have managed to get my hands on two of the EV bibles - Bob Brant's Build Your Own Electric Vehicle and Michael Brown's Convert It!. I have some more reading to do now. Isn't research great?

In doing this I've made up a list of cars I was looking at as prospective gliders. All specs were from an australian site I found to be a great resource for vehicle specs (stumbled onto it one day by luck really): http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/advanced-search.aspx.

All had to have a low curb weight and decent payload as well as being common, cheap and not too bad on the eyes. They also had to have good access to upgrades for suspension and brakes as well as space for 2 adults + 2 kids (normally would be just 2 adults and I would be planning on removing the center rear seatbelt to boost payload).

I used curb weight, payload and stated fuel economy (to judge which also had the best aerodynamics/least rolling resistance). 

The only problem is that this is all in an excel spreadsheet so I can't post it here! Does anyone have any suggestions on how or where to put it? I know other sites have started similar lists - (including one Gav has added to I'm sure - I spotted the Tredia!) but I'd rather a local resource where we could use NZ vehicles with their respective specs and maybe pro's and con's.

The vehicles I covered include '94/'95 corolla hatch, sedan and liftback, '95/'96 5th gen civic sedan and hatch, '93/'95 mirage coupe and sedan (cc lancer?), '96 mirage/lancer hatch and coupe and also a first gen mr2 just out of curiosity.

Getting a bit wordy now so I'll leave it at that.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

If you're looking for a New Zealand supplier for Lithium batteries, I recommend this company, great service -

*ADVANCED ECO SOLUTIONS GROUP LTD
*
*1st Floor, Building E, 42 Tawa Drive, Albany, Auckland*
*PO Box 301-021**, Albany**, Auckland 0752*
*P* +64 9 918 3917
*M* +64 21 412912
*F* +64 9 9183714


I dealt with a Petar Kust, nice guy and very helpful


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Jinx

Gavin is shifting house at the moment so his ability to post up your calculation sheet might be a bit limited right now. You could paste it up on the NZEVA Yahoo Technical Group site, as they have space for files. You could also pass it to me and I would post it up on my Blogspot.

Just get in touch with me if you need contact details.


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

to add to the last list, there are a LOT of VW coversions-

passenger:- golf mk1 (also know rabbit, kits from electroautomotive), beetle (good as their are few variants to the original)
classic:- karmann ghia

all of these are pretty old now


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## jinx (May 4, 2008)

Sorry for the delay, life has been a tad hectic lately.

Here's the starter list for glider selection. Only a few vehicles are on the list as I didn't want to go overboard with selecting something. I was aiming for a cheap glider with easily available spares and aftermarket parts.

Anyway - it's a start. Take it, add to it, butcher it to your hearts desire.

My personal favourite is the early '90's mitsi mirage coupe. Good aerodynamics, low weight/high payload, good parts availability and not too bad on the eyes.


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

The Mitsi mirage does sound very good, for both lead and maybe lithium too as its both low weight and high payload. What would be the standard parts best available from nz? advanced dc 8 or 9" motor, lead 6, 8 or 12 (prob on weight/performance choice), controller, and suspension and brake upgrade parts required?


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

just stumbled on this site all about mirages, including brake upgrades and service manuals!

http://tech.mirage-performance.com/


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

...manuals are here...
http://tech.mirage-performance.com/Manuals/


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## jinx (May 4, 2008)

linz said:


> The Mitsi mirage does sound very good, for both lead and maybe lithium too as its both low weight and high payload. What would be the standard parts best available from nz? advanced dc 8 or 9" motor, lead 6, 8 or 12 (prob on weight/performance choice), controller, and suspension and brake upgrade parts required?


 
Suspension and brakes are about as easy as it gets - EVO. You're really limited only by budget but mitsi have made a lot of parts interchangeable and the Mirage has a lot in common with the Lancer. Steering racks are also supposed to be interchangeable so allow a swap from Power to Manual without to much effort. 

Don't forget the Corolla as well - still has good payloads and reasonable upgrades as well from later Trueno/Levin/GT models.


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## Kiwi_ME (May 29, 2008)

I would agree with the OP line of thinking. It makes a lot of sense in major DIY projects like this to spend a lot more time doing research rather than making avoidable mistakes. A well-planned job might only take 20% of the total time to actually carry out the labour of conversion. Similar to making a movie, planning is everything. Ideally, the entire design could be done on CAD and paper with minimal initial investment in hardware.

I'm initially looking at a simple electric vehicle to simplify costing and analysis - lead acid batteries, series-wound DC motor, and a single-quadrant controller (i.e. no regen). A manual tranny is essential unless calculations show a direct connection to the final drive is practical.

My take on the ideal donor:
1. An established road-legal vehicle that will not raise any eyebrows when it comes to certification. So, home-made jobs are out.

2. A fairly-new vehicle. Personally, I don't want to put $15k of new hardware into a clunker. Nor do I want to spend any extra money on a car that has any collectible value.

3. A vehicle that has a high proportion of the total volume _outside_ the passenger compartment for the batteries. For example a FWD compact is designed to efficiently utilize the volume in passenger and internal storage space while a ute, truck, or SUV has considerable volume outside of the passenger compartment.

4. Small and light weight. Maybe this is a non-issue when you are loading it down with batteries. Certainly you need enough original structural strength to avoid having to beef it up. Question, does our added weight have to keep the vehicle within its original allowed GVW? Or is this something overlooked in NZ? It doesn't need to be stated that safety is also important. One advantage of a ute or SUV is that the GVW tends to be higher than a pure passenger car.

5. Ease of converting existing power hardware. Steering, brakes, electrical system including the speedo and tach.

6. A reasonably attractive vehicle. It's going to get noticed so it should look good. The Toyota Yaris conversion on the web is the kind of professional-looking result I would want.

I'm initially thinking along the lines of a late Daihatsu Terios or Suzuki Jimny, with the 4WD drivetrain being ditched in order to use the space for batteries. If I'm not mistaken, the Terios is FWD-based and the Jimny is RWD. Any thoughts on this?


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## jinx (May 4, 2008)

Good points throughout but one possible problem. Going by our current certification guidelines you need to restore power steering and aircon to the vehicle unless there was a model without these fitted. A significant proportion of vehicles from the mid 90's had power steering and the later you go the more prevalent it is. While I'd say later models are better from an equipment and safety perspective they are getting heavier every year and anything without power steering is now rare. I don't know if that is the case for the two 4WD's you're considering but the other consideration is aerodynamics. Both vehicles would be reasonably high drag as well so more power lost to overcome that at open road speeds.

Once you've done the research how about adding them to the spreadsheet from the previous page? That way more people get to see the various possibilities out there and any associated pros/cons.

Don't know if you've read them but Bob Brandt's "Build you own electric vehicle" and Michael Borwn's "Convert It!" are great reads. I've read the latter and am halfway through the former. Excellent books and well worth the cost. Amazon stocks both. Even though they are getting a little old (approx 1993 for both) many people still swear by them and it's not hard to understand why.


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## Weka (May 23, 2008)

I think it is a great idea to have a standard car and in fact there is a project in the USA to do just this with the Honda civic

From what I have seen there is a real problem wtih the leads in that a 10k/w usable energy pack requires around 26 batteries each at say 23k = 600 lios. This is basically half a metric tonne. Putting that into a small car like the Honda means a major suspension upgrade, and absolutely requires power steering.

Obviously the bigger the sedan the more capacity you get, but also the moreweight the batteries have to shift. It's my view that unless you live in a flat place you need to have a ute with a tray, if you are running with lead-acids. This is the same logic as on Jens Rekker's excellent web site.

If you are going for a small car, which I do in fact want to do, you either need to be OK with a short 20k range / no hills, or you need lithium batteries to keep the weight under control. But these don't quite seem to be ready for the prime time.

There is always an exception, and in the small car range a lot of people have converted the Toyota MR2 to lead-acids. It has a solid suspension and seems capable of taking the extra weight without major work. I would be extremely cautious about a Mirage, their gearboxes/clutches are not the strongest. Also MR2 have electric power steering, so you don't need to rebuild it. 

My preference at the moment is a Miata with lithiums, and I am waiting for the lithium story to get clearer


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Weka said:


> Obviously the bigger the sedan the more capacity you get.


Don't take this for granted. When researching what vehicle to use I found some of the mid sized sedans had smaller payloads than some of the small sedans like Corolla's and Mirage's. Two seat sports cars usually have a pathetic payload. It stands to reason really as they also have a small payload requirement in normal use.

Without a special dispensation your vehicle has to be built to a weight below its manufacturers GVWR and this needs to include an allowance for the weight of its occupants and their luggage. If you find out your vehicles GVWR and Curb weight the difference is the payload you have to work with. Of course the vehicle is going to lose some weight as in engine, fuel and exhaust systems and the electrical items added probably wont weigh as much. The 9" electric motor is going to weigh about 60kg less than the ICE it replaces and if I used an 8" motor that would be 80kg. For my car I expect it to grow in weight about 50kg less than the battery weight. This is based on the experience of others in similar small car conversions.


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## MaverickNZ (May 14, 2008)

I had an idea last night in my sleep. what would an EV with the battieries mounted in a single layer underneath the passenger compartment be like. It could probably only be achieved with a custom chassis but if the batteries are below the passenger compartment it would make for a low center of gravity and also with the floor needing to be well supported as well as a nice strong batttery box it would make for a fairly rigid chassis. Anyway just an idea that came to me in my sleep


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## Kiwi_ME (May 29, 2008)

GM did something like this in the EV1 a decade ago. It's a "T" shape using the tunnel and the area under the back seats.

To be practical and use an existing vehicle I was think of using a small FWD SUV and using the space normally occupied by 4WD gear.


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## jinx (May 4, 2008)

It's a very good idea, but perhaps not so suitable for lead acid batteries - the need for access for regular checking would make it a real pain.

Have a look at the pro-ev wrx - they've done it with lithium batteries. Hardly a typical road car but it's a good example regardless.


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## Nerveless Ned (Jun 18, 2008)

Hi Guys, I'll post my intended conversion as a way to get some feedback on the good and bad ideas I've got.
Firstly the donor car is a 97 Vectra wagon mainly because I already have it and am quite fond of the way it drives also it's getting a bit long in the tooth at 200k so I might replace it anyway letting me put it in my garage and have my evil ways with it.
It is medium sized but not as heavy as a camry. Quite aerodynamic shape, gets good petrol milage. Once it's converted it will still carry 5 people and plenty of junk. A MR2 or something would be great but not practical for me. 
I haven't done the sums yet but I figure a 9" DC motor with 20 or 24 lead acids would get me 60+ k's of Dunedin driving on a charge. The wagon has a spare wheel well under the floor in the back. I would cut that out and bolt in a flat panel in it's place. The rear set of batteries would sit in a box fixed under the floor - outside of the passenger compartment, using a trolley jack to raise and lower it when I needed to. 
I'm quite game to begin except for the cost of the whole exercise.

That's one conversion. What about this: I also have a 62 EK Holden wagon, a tidy one. I just couldn't see a future for it as a restored ICE car. Maybe it could become one of the first electric conversions of it's kind (if I don't take too long about it). On the minus side it is heavy, not very aerodynamic (despite the fins), mediocre drum brakes, handles like a battleship, and needs some other work (floor rust). 
On the plus side it is very cool looking, has pretty good carrying capacity and, as I said, might be the first. I just like the idea that this old fossil might have a worthwhile future.
So, any comments on these two possible conversions would be appreciated.


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

Hi Guys, I've been doing a little bit of surfing lately for info on possible donor cars for an EV in NZ, mainly in terms of weight and aerodynamics, but also in terms of purchase cost, availability of the car and of parts in NZ. 
Age, to be a bit more recent to have less chance of rust issues etc just yet, but old enough for purchase cost to be within a average budget.
I also was looking for a car of a size that would lend itself to be more of a commuter to work more than any thing else, so room inside after conversion is not really an issue, just 2 seats would do. 
And so far (for me that is) there is one car that is standing out a little from the rest.
The 1988-89 Honda CR-X (HF model). Reported curb weight of around the 855kg mark (I could not find the GVWR?). And a coefficient of drag Cd of 0.29, which is no EV1 (Cd 0.195), but is fairly low given its age! and better than some later model super cars infact! The Caterham or Lotus 7 shape, although light, on the other hand has a Cd worse than a Hummer? go figure?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficients
I realise that not everything on the net is to be believed ... but gotta start somewhere  cheers


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## Yaggo (Jul 9, 2008)

Wingnut said:


> The Caterham or Lotus 7 shape, although light, on the other hand has a Cd worse than a Hummer? go figure?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficients
> I realise that not everything on the net is to be believed ... but gotta start somewhere  cheers


Maybe it's good idea to point out again: Cd value does _not_ tell the absolute air drag of car, it just tells how much smaller the drag is compared to box or cube of similar size. So, you can't directly compare Cd values of different sized cars. To get real air drag, you need to multiply Cd by frontal area of car.

By the way, it's amazing how lightweight old cars were. Too bad they are not very safe by today's standards. I guess Honda CRX would be totally destroyed in a crash test like this.


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

Yaggo said:


> Maybe it's good idea to point out again: Cd value does _not_ tell the absolute air drag of car, it just tells how much smaller the drag is compared to box or cube of similar size. So, you can't directly compare Cd values of different sized cars. To get real air drag, you need to multiply Cd by frontal area of car.
> 
> By the way, it's amazing how lightweight old cars were. Too bad they are not very safe by today's standards. I guess Honda CRX would be totally destroyed in a crash test like this.


Yeh true, cool vid!. Trouble is tho, like they say at the end, its all good having a good strong car, but the occupants wouldnt survive in some cases anyway. Not every EV dreamer has the cash to buy a newer safe donor car, (I include myself in this bracket, like Gav.) Plus a cars safety design and features are designed around the cars final design as a whole, ie where/how the engine is mounted and how it reacts in a crash, ie does it go underneath the firewall in a crash etc, to remove energy in a crash. If we are removing key components from a car, and adding more components where we see fit and which increase the cars overall weight substantially, then I would assume the cars saftey design and therefore rating would suffer also. So a donor cars factory safety rating is no guarantee. Not to mention all that electrical potential energy stored between plates in individual batteries that could be damaged, and nasty electrolyte in some cases. Ouch! a descent EV prang could get unhealthy anyway.

I would have thought that if a Cd value is compared to the same datum (ie a square cube or flat face of the same area) as another Cd value, and measured travelling thru the same medium, then the relative difference between the two would have been porportional?. No idea, I guess you have shown I need more research  ..... yes you're right Cd is a dimensionless value.
Yay! back to the surfing I go. Cheers!


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

Sorry Yaggo...! I did not read your reply properly.... my last reply makes me look more like an idiot! DOH!. Sorry.... I'll just go sit in the corner and shut up now.
Cheers


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## E_power (Jun 3, 2008)

Wingnut said:


> Hi Guys, I've been doing a little bit of surfing lately for info on possible donor cars for an EV in NZ, mainly in terms of weight and aerodynamics, but also in terms of purchase cost, availability of the car and of parts in NZ.
> Age, to be a bit more recent to have less chance of rust issues etc just yet, but old enough for purchase cost to be within a average budget.
> I also was looking for a car of a size that would lend itself to be more of a commuter to work more than any thing else, so room inside after conversion is not really an issue, just 2 seats would do.
> And so far (for me that is) there is one car that is standing out a little from the rest.
> ...


I've often though about using something like a light weight van, probably because I have an old Toyota Lite Ace floating around, simply because you could place all the battery weight under the floor in a low central position. Even a Previa might be the go but I don't have any idea of the weight.

Hondas do look like they would make good EVs from a point of weight and coefficient of drag. My son has a '92 Ferio that would make a good donor car. The CR-X would also but I am not keen on the batteries being in the same air space as the occupants. It is a hatch after all and some of the batteries would need to go in the rear. However I really like the look of the C-RX De Sol for a conversion project. It has separate boot space that still has room even with the targa top stored.

Edit:
Just found that the De Sol has a curb weight of about 1100kg, drag coefficient of 0.378 and sell for between $NZ4-7K.


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## Wingnut (May 17, 2008)

I am not completely sure, but in most sedan shaped cars, the boot space is still theoretically in the same "airspace" as the passenger compartment isnt it?, ie there is not a solid air tight structure between the two, most modern sedans have fold down rear seats so you can put a pair of ski's or something longer like that through there if you have too ( I know my Nissan does). I am not up to play on the NZ EV regulations, but I would assume if you were planning to put batteries in the boot of a sedan, I would assume they would have to be in a sealed, externally ventilated box much like what KiwiEv did with the Tredia..... either way, I dont see it as a big issue. Every one has there own ideas I suppose, and I think that is healthy  cheers


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## Jens Rekker (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi Wingnut

You're right about most sedans having the boot as an extension of the passenger space. I discussed this with an EV accredited certifier and he said that as long as a steel panel was welded or tightly bonded to the body between the boot space and the passenger compartment, the two spaces would be considered separate. Having said that, the EV certification guidelines don't cut you much slack except that the tie down force on the batteries becomes 2.5G instead of 20G if they are mounted in the passenger compartment. You still need to go to the effort of separately ventilating the battery box.

I wonder how the EV certification standard deals with lithium btteries that don't emit any gases at all? I don't think they were around in 1997 when the standard was drafted.


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## E_power (Jun 3, 2008)

Jens Rekker said:


> Hi Wingnut
> 
> You're right about most sedans having the boot as an extension of the passenger space. I discussed this with an EV accredited certifier and he said that as long as a steel panel was welded or tightly bonded to the body between the boot space and the passenger compartment, the two spaces would be considered separate.


Sorry, that's what I meant by separate. It's easy to seal up the area behind the seat of a car that has a boot. Not so with a hatchback.


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## Pagar (Aug 7, 2008)

Heretic said:


> Going the Fraser way (basically a locust), you can order it to suit your needs, but its not what you'd call cheap. The best part about it is theres so many options, that they basically custom build every car to its requirements


It would probably be cheaper to buy the Locost book re jig the plans to suit your application tack it all together and have a local welder finish it up for you. that way you can move bits to suit and do not have to think of everything first as you would with a fraser. I like the idea of a rear 4x4 box widen the hole rig to take motor in the rear of the tunel full front end for batt's would handle like a gocart.


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

another possible donor-car choice (for standard conversion, not racing!)- Holden Barina 2nd gen 88-94. A rebadged suzuki swift or geo metro, which is a very popular conversion and has kits available.

From wikipedia-
The second-generation *MF Barina* was a rebadged second generation Suzuki Cultus, co-developed with GM using the GM M platform and marketed worldwide under nearly a dozen nameplates, prominently as the Suzuki Swift, Pontiac Firefly and Geo Metro — and currently in production in Pakistan. A three-door hatchback was first released in 1988, and was followed by the introduction of a five-door hatchback in 1990. A facelifted *MH Barina* was released in October 1991.
Like the previous generation, the second generation Barina provides a "significantly worse than average" level of safety according to the Used Car Safety Ratings.[1]


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## locost_bryan (Aug 18, 2008)

Pagar said:


> It would probably be cheaper to buy the Locost book re jig the plans to suit your application tack it all together and have a local welder finish it up for you. that way you can move bits to suit and do not have to think of everything first as you would with a fraser. I like the idea of a rear 4x4 box widen the hole rig to take motor in the rear of the tunel full front end for batt's would handle like a gocart.


My plan was a traditional ICE Locost . 

Now I'm quite keen to make it like this or this. 

The electric motor could fit in the space where the ICE gearbox goes (Mark Fowler only uses 4th), or rear-mounted with a 4wd front diff, leaving the entire engine bay free for batteries. Could even fit them in place of the passenger seat, and run it as a single seater. 

According to the locost forums, the aero is only a problem over 120kmh, and the Caterham CSR has some aero tweeks (nose vents, guards, diffuser) that could be "borrowed". 

The second generation MR2 is another low-cost donor ($2-3,000), although a first generation would be lighter with smaller frontal area (but more expensive on trademe  ).

An Echo would be another good choice - any reason the batteries couldn't be mounted under the boot floor, in place of the fuel tank, here in NZ?

Bryan
Auckland


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## djmjnewton (Aug 14, 2008)

Hi, My certifier here in ChCh Murray Meyers allowed me to seal in an open floored box with a sealed but removable lid in my Alto here http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ This removed the need for forced air ventilation and made it technically simple. Thank you for the advice on the next conversion especially the curb and GVLW data and web address (Linz?). My little Alto is very good as a start project in flat ChCH. I want to do one with more range next time that can do the school and shopping run as well as get to work. (50km) Im leaning in the 93-95 Corolla sedan direction at the moment using 72V and 9 X 8V flooded ie 270kg pack weight but........?


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## mhsaeed786 (3 mo ago)

linz said:


> another possible donor-car choice (for standard conversion, not racing!)- Holden Barina 2nd gen 88-94. A rebadged suzuki swift or geo metro, which is a very popular conversion and has kits available.
> 
> From wikipedia-
> The second-generation *MF Barina* was a rebadged second generation Suzuki Cultus, co-developed with GM using the GM M platform and marketed worldwide under nearly a dozen nameplates, prominently as the Suzuki Swift, Pontiac Firefly and Geo Metro — and currently in production in Pakistan. A three-door hatchback was first released in 1988, and was followed by the introduction of a five-door hatchback in 1990. A facelifted *MH Barina* was released in October 1991.
> Like the previous generation, the second generation Barina provides a "significantly worse than average" level of safety according to the Used Car Safety Ratings.[1]


Okay if we just get on with such a project , not for new zealand , for asian countries . And we design it as a city car only , with maintaining only 80km/hr top speed and 80 km range . And ,if we keep it manual . what equipment do you suggest ?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi mhsaeed786
This thread is OLD - back then the only way to get an EV was to build one
Today if you want a basic machine as you say just buy a second hand Leaf or similar
Converting a car will cost twice as much and be half as good when finished

Building an EV is more like building a Hot Rod - NOT a "cheap" alternative


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