# [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bob Bath wrote:
> > What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out there?Appreciatively,?
> 
> The Leaf battery is lithium manganese, I believe. LiMn has a poorer
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would love to jump to lithium as well. I am in the same position as yo=
u are. I decided to spend the $2500, get another 3plus years out of the =
trojans, and at that time, hope we are closer to $2000 lithiums (or better)



________________________________
From: Bob Bath <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> =

Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.
=

3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at 1=
44V would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need =
to get 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's act=
ually another $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when the=
y're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium longevity =
in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs a=
re having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also conce=
rned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently 3200 lbs=
).
What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out there?Appreciat=
ively,


Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See http://home=
.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons more info!

____ =


__/__|__\__ =


=3DD-------/ - - \ =


'O'-----'O'-'

Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering whe=
el?

OR Lic. "LCTRNS"


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have about 2 years on the Thundersky cells in my del Sol. I've worked on
the car during the two winters so I only have about 12K miles on the car and
cells. So far, still going strong and no lost cells. I hope to keep
putting on 10K miles per year driving year round. I'm hoping I can be a
good data point for lithium longevity in 8 to 10 years. For now, all I can
say is two years with no issues.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Bob Bath
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 1:51 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.
> =

> 3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at
144V
> would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need to
get
> 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's actually
another
> $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
> I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when
> they're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium
longevity
> in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs=
are
> having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also
> concerned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently
3200
> lbs).
> What's the longest people have had lithiums on the road out
> there?Appreciatively,
> =

> =

> Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic? See
> http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons
> more info!
> =

> ____
> =

> __/__|__\__
> =

> =3DD-------/ - - \
> =

> 'O'-----'O'-'
> =

> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel?
> =

> OR Lic. "LCTRNS"
> =

> =

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have about 1.5 years on my 48cell, 200ah pack (thundersky). I'm away from my car on vacation for a little while, but I think I have about ~16,000 miles so far. The pack is as strong as it was when I originally got it. I have never taken the cells to lower then 20% (actually, never lower than 30%).

corbin



> Bob Bath <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > 3rd pack is fading; another 10K miles in 2.7 years.A CALB pack of 70Ah at 144V would run me $4200.As I'm running 2.2K floodies per 3 years, I''d need to get 6 years out of them to make them pencil out. I recognize it's actually another $700 of MiniBMS, etc.
> > I'm just not doing a good enough job of understanding floodies and when they're equalized. At the same time, I'm concerned about lithium longevity in heat. My town has some days of 90-105F over the summer. If LEAFs are having problems, what's to keep CALBs from doing the same?I'm also concerned about pulling high amps to get 2500 lbs. in motion (currently 3200 lbs).
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The 37 Jag uses 30 260ah Thundersky batts. They sat on the garage floor
for a year while we waited for the Zilla  Absolutely no discharge.
Stable as a rock. We don't have a ton of miles on it since it's more of a
cruiser than a commuter. Range should be better than 100 miles but it has
only been tested to 90 miles.
Cheers



> corbin dunn <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I have about 1.5 years on my 48cell, 200ah pack (thundersky). I'm away
> > from my car on vacation for a little while, but I think I have about
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Marcus Reddish wrote:
> > The 37 Jag uses 30 260ah Thundersky batts. They sat on the garage floor
> 
> I find no Jaguars in evablum. Nor a Reddish.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.evalbum.com/3980 

Quite an impressive EV! Well done.


----- Original Message ----
From: Willie McKemie <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, July 21, 2012 10:39:07 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.



> Marcus Reddish wrote:
> > The 37 Jag uses 30 260ah Thundersky batts. They sat on the garage floor
> 
> I find no Jaguars in evablum. Nor a Reddish.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

(Lee Hart) wrote: >Why not try just a few lithiums? If they have an
equal or high amphour
capacity than the rest of the lead-acid pack, then the lead will go dead
first, warning you and protecting the lithiums. When you charge, use a
BMS to prevent the lithiums from overcharging.

Give it a year, and see how well the lithiums are actually performing.>

I did something like this with one cell added to my lead acid pack just to
see how it would do. I quickly noticed that the lithium cell needed less
ah put back in than the Hawker lead acid. I don't think the battery
management or something that shuttles an amp is going to be enough, the
lead acid batteries will not get enough ah to get charged.

You could use a separate charger for your Lithium cells.
Steve Clunn
-- 
Steve & Audrey
Your Green Shed Team
772-971-0533
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That would also be my concern - the flooded lead is
typically charged 110% of the removed current, so
take 50Ah out, put approx 55 Ah back in.
If the Lithium BMS does not burn off the extra 5Ah
then the cell will overcharge every cycle.
If you can manage to set your charger up so that the
finish charging is when the extra 10% gets put back in
and at a current that is lower than your Lithium BMS can
handle (or that it can throttle back your charger!)
then you can bypass that current in a heavy enough
resistor to keep the Lihium in its happy voltage range.
But that may mean 5+ Amps of bypass current, depending
on how your charger setup is.


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Steve Clunn
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] And yet another floodie to CALB?/Lithium longevity.

(Lee Hart) wrote: >Why not try just a few lithiums? If they have an
equal or high amphour
capacity than the rest of the lead-acid pack, then the lead will go dead
first, warning you and protecting the lithiums. When you charge, use a
BMS to prevent the lithiums from overcharging.

Give it a year, and see how well the lithiums are actually performing.>

I did something like this with one cell added to my lead acid pack just
to
see how it would do. I quickly noticed that the lithium cell needed
less
ah put back in than the Hawker lead acid. I don't think the battery
management or something that shuttles an amp is going to be enough, the
lead acid batteries will not get enough ah to get charged.

You could use a separate charger for your Lithium cells.
Steve Clunn
--
Steve & Audrey
Your Green Shed Team
772-971-0533
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Why not try just a few lithiums in series with the rest of a
> >> lead-acid pack... When you charge, use a BMS to prevent the
> >> lithiums from overcharging. Give it a year, and see how well the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I've been driving my Porsche 914 as a daily driver since April 2010. I
> > currently have 5500 miles on the batteries. Round-trip is 36 miles -
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I do believe average C-rate and maximum C-rate should be kept as low as
possible for long battery life. This means big batteries or lots of them
and preferably both.



> Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]
> > >wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I just took one car for routine checkup. EV odo 80.000 km and with LFP
since 2005. Will test the capacity of the cells since the car has been
working like a clock.

I put up some pics at FB site.

https://www.facebook.com/TransitionCompany

-akkuJukka

http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about


2012/7/26 Marcus Reddish <[email protected]>:
> I do believe average C-rate and maximum C-rate should be kept as low as
> possible for long battery life. This means big batteries or lots of them
> and preferably both.
>
>


> Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]
> >> >wrote:
> ...


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