# [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've certainly thought about it! I love the manual transition (on EV or
ICE), but I get tired of the clutch. You could just make it clutchless and
add a second safety contactor to the electrical system. This moves the
safety margin from the clutch to the contactor. Best to have 2 safety
mechanisms (usually one contactor and a clutch).

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:10 AM, John G. Lussmyer <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> > a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've certainly never heard of it, but I think it sounds like a great idea. =
Will the button just engage a solenoid?
=

damon



> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:10:14 -0700> From: [email protected]> To: =
[email protected]> Subject: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch> > Okay, I've been wo=
rking on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had> a dead automatic tran=
ny, I'm converting it to a manual.> The problem is the clutch pedal assembl=
y. It will take a LOT of work to> add a clutch pedal to this truck. Ford us=
es a completely different> pedal mounting system between the manual and aut=
omatic transmission> models. I'd probably have to pull the dash to make the=
change.> So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of =
making> the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button=
on> the shift.> > Anyone done something like this?> > > __________________=
_____________________________> For subscription options, see> http://lists.=
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> 
> > Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the
> > original had a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello John,

I have use one of those hydraulic cables that has every thing built into it 
to operated a clutch. I pick one of these units up from a marine place that 
has them for moving a outboard motor.

It looks just like a cable shifting unit for a transmission.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch


> Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> The problem is the clutch pedal assembly. It will take a LOT of work to
> add a clutch pedal to this truck. Ford uses a completely different
> pedal mounting system between the manual and automatic transmission
> models. I'd probably have to pull the dash to make the change.
> So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of making
> the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button on
> the shift.
>
> Anyone done something like this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sounds like the perfect example of "when to go clutchless".




> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> > a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From: "damon henry" <[email protected]>


> I've certainly never heard of it, but I think it sounds like a great idea.
> Will the button just engage a solenoid?

I'm sure World Rally Cars (WRC) used to use these before all the
flappy-paddle stuff.

Bro


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From: "damon henry" <[email protected]>


> I've certainly never heard of it, but I think it sounds like a great idea.
> Will the button just engage a solenoid?

I'm sure World Rally Cars (WRC) used to use these before all the
flappy-paddle stuff.

Bro


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tim Humphrey wrote:
> > Sounds like the perfect example of "when to go clutchless".
> >
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello John,
> >
> > I have use one of those hydraulic cables that has every thing built into it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch




> > Roland Wiench wrote:
> > > Hello John,
> > >
> > > I have use one of those hydraulic cables that has every thing built into
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like that idea but you may also want to look at race car suppliers for a =
hydraulic pedal & master assembly that will mount through the floor or on s=
imply fabricated brackets
> =

> Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> The problem is the clutch pedal assembly. It will take a LOT of work to
> add a clutch pedal to this truck. Ford uses a completely different
> pedal mounting system between the manual and automatic transmission
> models. I'd probably have to pull the dash to make the change.
> So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of making
> the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button on
> the shift.
> =

> Anyone done something like this?
> =

>

_________________________________________________________________
The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i=92m Talkathon.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving
_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > Tim Humphrey wrote:
> >> Sounds like the perfect example of "when to go clutchless".
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Maybe I am really missing something here, but
why do you use a 4ton truck for an ev conversion?

Have you taken the time to add up all the costs assoc
with the motor/battery/controller of such larger sizes
to support such a huge machine?

Message: 32
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:52:56 -0700
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



> Tim Humphrey wrote:
> > Sounds like the perfect example of "when to go clutchless".
> >
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Joel and All,

Respectfully I would and do appreciate the conversations about converting
larger vehicles to EV.

It's awesome that we will soon, (80% confidence here) have ev vehicles for
our daily travels but

will still be funding larger vehicles transportation cost due to high
diesel and operating costs.

If this is not the forum for larger EV's I do apologize for not knowing
this. I am fairly new to this list.

But find it amazing how many folks here have vast amounts of knowledge and
experience with

ev's and conversions.

All my best to you,

Bernie A. Knutson




"Joel F. Hacker" 
<[email protected] 
hoo.com> To 
Sent by: [email protected] 
[email protected]  cc 
sjsu.edu 
Subject 
Re: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch 
06/24/2008 02:29 
PM 


Please respond to 
Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List 
<[email protected] 
u> 






Maybe I am really missing something here, but
why do you use a 4ton truck for an ev conversion?

Have you taken the time to add up all the costs assoc
with the motor/battery/controller of such larger sizes
to support such a huge machine?

Message: 32
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:52:56 -0700
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



> Tim Humphrey wrote:
> > Sounds like the perfect example of "when to go clutchless".
> >
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> The problem is the clutch pedal assembly. It will take a LOT of work to
> add a clutch pedal to this truck. Ford uses a completely different
> pedal mounting system between the manual and automatic transmission
> models. I'd probably have to pull the dash to make the change.
> So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of making
> the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button on
> the shift.
>
> Anyone done something like this?
>

Volkswagon.

They used to make a clutchless (well pedal-less) manual transmission. It
had a switch under the shift knob that engaged the clutch when you put
your hand on the knob. Kind of rare though.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of making
> the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button on
> the shift.
>
> Anyone done something like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostick

I'm thinking you could simulate the vacuum actuator with a servo. Give
you a nice smooth engage/disengage, as opposed to a solenoid snapping the
clutch off/on.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 24 Jun 2008 at 11:55, Joel F. Hacker wrote:
> 
> > Maybe I am really missing something here, but
> > why do you use a 4ton truck for an ev conversion?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had 
a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
The problem is the clutch pedal assembly. It will take a LOT of work to 
add a clutch pedal to this truck. Ford uses a completely different 
pedal mounting system between the manual and automatic transmission 
models. I'd probably have to pull the dash to make the change.
So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of making 
the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button on 
the shift.

Anyone done something like this?


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This message is an old one, and the thread has already been discussed. In 
fact, I think this is the third go-round for this message. 

I have no idea why it re-surfaced. Server hiccough? 

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello John,

You will need a lot more than that to control a Linear Actuator. Just type 
in your search engine "Linear Actuator" and see how they work. There may be 
a type they have today that may work good for you.

I was using a Dayton Linear Actuator which is rated at 12 vdc at 2.2 amps, 
500 lbs force, 6 inch run out and a speed of 32 inches per min when I was 
experimenting on a parallel hybrid back in 85, which was use to disengage 
the engine from the driveline during low power demands on the main electric 
motor drive.

My clutch only need about 4 inch travel at the fork lever, so this 4 inch 
travel will take about 7.5 seconds to push out and another 7.5 seconds to 
come in. That is 15 seconds, which may not be good for one prime mover, but 
was ok, when I was operating with two prime movers.

With these Linear Actuators, you need either a built in limit switch to 
limit the throw of the activating rod. A industrial external one can be 
added which has to be a double pole-double throw limit switch. When the 
activator rods comes to its limits, the switch shuts off the forward circuit 
and switches over to the reverse circuit so it then can travel in the other 
direction.

You will also need a HD Double Pole - Double Throw Three Position with a off 
position dash mounted switch to operated it. It is a ON-OFF-ON type of 
switch.

First you have to find out how much force it takes to move the fork lever, 
then the Linear Actuator should be rated for double that force.

At the time, I done this back in 85, there was no spring return type that 
may have work better. This unit I have is very large and I would not use 
this type for a clutch on one prime mover.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:31 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Truck vs Clutch


> Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> The problem is the clutch pedal assembly. It will take a LOT of work to
> add a clutch pedal to this truck. Ford uses a completely different
> pedal mounting system between the manual and automatic transmission
> models. I'd probably have to pull the dash to make the change.
> So, since EV's don't generally shift as often, I was thinking of making
> the clutch electrically activated, and just putting a Clutch button on
> the shift.
>
> Anyone done something like this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 


_______________________________________________
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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> This message is an old one, and the thread has already been discussed. In
> fact, I think this is the third go-round for this message.
>
> I have no idea why it re-surfaced. Server hiccough?
>

Looks like the Casadelgato server coughed it up again after hanging on to
it for a couple weeks. At least that's what the headers show.

John would have to look at his logs, etc to figure out why it did this.




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >> This message is an old one, and the thread has already been discussed. In
> >> fact, I think this is the third go-round for this message.
> >>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Joel F. Hacker wrote:
> > Maybe I am really missing something here, but
> > why do you use a 4ton truck for an ev conversion?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

that was the automatic transmission in my 1972 VW beetle.

Just had two speeds. You shifted at about 30mph.

It didn't seem to last, but I got it used.



> Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > > Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> > > a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

John, is the date on your computer possibly set wrong? I receive all 
your messages as if they were sent on June 24.

Bill Dennis



> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > Joel F. Hacker wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe I am really missing something here, but
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > Joel F. Hacker wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe I am really missing something here, but
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Many, many years ago SAAB had an "automatic" clutch on their manual
transmission. When you released the throttle the clutch would be
disengaged. When you stepped on it the clutch owuld engage. I think it
worked on vacuum. Perhaps you could use the accelerator pedal to control
your clutch, like SAAB did so long ago.

Jim





> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I've been working on my F-250 conversion. Since the original had
> > a dead automatic tranny, I'm converting it to a manual.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Saab used a freewheel, which I believe was broken easily.





> maJiCMan wrote:
> >
> > Many, many years ago SAAB had an "automatic" clutch on their manual
> > transmission. When you released the throttle the clutch would be
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Added; the freewheel was originally needed because the Saab used a 2 stroke
engine until 1968.





> Mark Jeffers wrote:
> >
> > Saab used a freewheel, which I believe was broken easily.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes. You are correct, I used to have one of those 2 stroke model 96s with
the freewheel device, but I am talking about a vacuum operated automatic
clutch. I think if you look at information about mid 1960s SAAB models you
might find this described in detail. However, my point was that the
function of the clutch button refered to previously could be handled by a
potbox microswitch or throttle control connected to the controller.

Jim





> Mark Jeffers wrote:
> >
> > Added; the freewheel was originally needed because the Saab used a 2
> > stroke engine until 1968.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:55:43 -0700 (PDT), maJiCMan <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Yes. You are correct, I used to have one of those 2 stroke model 96s with
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John wrote:
> 
> > Volkswage also used a vacuum-operated clutch actuator in their
> > semi-automatic
> ...


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