# Enclosed Bamboo Electric Tricycle: Possible Project Awesome



## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Your poll needs better "questions"

72 volts will get you there better and it can be done for under 3K.
Check out the EVAlbum.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Bamboo and crash safety don't really go together.
Bamboo, under impact, often splinters into many needle sharp splinters and razor sharp edges.

You would be better off moulding a glass fibre or plant fibre composite shell around a foam core to get a more manageable safety shell for a velomobile.

Your poll isn't helpful as the options are too different and ultimately it is your choice as to which option you should take. One is predominantly a vehicle build project, the other is an electric conversion. The latter is the easier route to take to electric drive. The former can be more fun but can also cost more, take more time and lead to numerous problems prior to abandonment. Your call.

That option can change as you develop a design solution and that isn't a bad thing. Discuss the ideas here and see which solution best fits what you actually need.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Laminar

Totally enclosed is difficult and expensive - windscreens, wipers, doors de-misters

It's a lot cheaper to go open and simple and buy a helmet and bike/pushbike leggings and jacket


----------



## laminarflowone (Dec 12, 2010)

Ah, good points all around. I'm only in the planning stages so I was hoping for an active discussion with people far more experienced with electric vehicles than I. Through college, I rebuilt vintage motorcycles and engines for fun on the weekends, and I want to have a project to take my mind of work and produce something that could actually be useful.

Well, I would be using a species known as Ferrocalamus strictus, which is essentially the strongest type of bamboo because it is mostly solid and is not as prone to splintering or cracking. I would also be using fiberglass/kevlar body molds, both interior and exterior sandwiched foam-core shells, so if the bamboo does shatter, it would have to penetrate the kevlar. Also, as far as a crash material is concerned, bamboo I believe would be solid candidate because it is able to dissipate more of the energy of collision by bending, and thus heat, or after the point of modulus failure, in the form of fracture. For a project last year, we studied the energy absorption mathematics of short applied forces and bamboo was able to absorb the most energy in most nearly every category. Though, repairability is an entirely different matter.

@Duncan. Right now I'm doing an R&D internship at a materials company, and I bike to work nearly every day, all 18miles each way, rain or shine. Biking is cheaper, especially when my bike is a singlespeed Gates Carbon belt drive, but in the winter, it wasn't all too fun. Cars scare the bejeezes out of me in good weather, and when the roads are icy, they make me pee my pants. You would think drivers in Cambridge would be used to the crazy MA weather, but they aren't. Also, I'm a professional junkyard-diver. I have a way of finding good stuff that other people toss in the trash. IE, my 1969 CB750 

I don't know, altogether, I'm still not sure which route I want to traverse. On one hand, having a car would be easier, but they still want ~1.2k a year in premiums and I can think of far better ways to spend that kind of money (versus the ~98 dollars to insure a motorcycle...). Especially considering I would only be using the car sporadically to get groceries or to pick up friends, it is a lot.


----------



## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

How about a sidecar for your bike? It probably wouldn't meet all your requirements but would be super cool.

Edit: You could also electrify your motorcycle.


----------



## laminarflowone (Dec 12, 2010)

A sidecar would be pretty sweet, I have always secretly wanted a Ural. However, it brings up a few design concerns. Bicycles frames, and even many motorcycle frames, are not built to withstand the lateral torsion forces a sidecar presents. Plus, a super-asymmetrical space frame makes my head hurt thinking about FEA. Engineers are lazy...

As far as electrifying one of my motorcycles...I am selling my finally-fixed-up-junkyard-Ninja to finance this project, and if I did that to my rebuilt sandcast cb750, the SOHC gods would smite me. 

I spent my lunch break doodling and looking at velomobiles and recumbent trikes. I am really inspired by the aerorider. Seat two people, made of bamboo/hemp, with bike rack. I'm sold. 
However, I think I would use two 26" wheels in the front and a 29er in the back. That way, come winter time, I could easily exchange the slicks with some nice knobbies.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Laminar

A small HPV like enclosed trike won't prevent your but from biting pieces out of the seat when car drivers do mad things

But a trike will at least get you away from the terror of two wheels on ice!

An enclosed machine is very good for aerodynamics but I bet it would be pain in rain or wet weather - its a lot easier to wipe your visor


----------



## laminarflowone (Dec 12, 2010)

@Duncan

So true, there will always be crazies on the road. 
I think most of the bike will be fiberglass sandwiched between layers of kevlar to reduce the 'shatter into pieces' aspect. Kevlar tends to 'hang by threads'.
Also, what I could do is leave the top canopy partway open with just a windshield to deflect the cold air and use my motorcycle helmet. That way I wouldn't have to worry too much about fogging.

I race cyclocross and singletrack, so I'm a little weird and actually feel most comfortable in slippery conditions on two wheels and with one of my feet out. However carrying stuff, either groceries or passengers, becomes real dangerous real fast on a motorcycle because it becomes too top-heavy.


----------



## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have you chosen your electrical components yet? As I'm sure you know the design process would ideally include these items from the start. I am interested in your project as I am planning something similar and am looking at small AC systems with lithium batteries.


----------



## laminarflowone (Dec 12, 2010)

I've been looking at a few websites and I think I want to go with two brush-less motors @ ~42V with LiFePO4s and a controller with regeneration. I'm just browsing to get a general idea of what kind of parts I want to use, but I've been mainly focusing on the steering and suspension systems first. My plan of attack is to build the space-frame first, make sure the rolling chassis functions, and then to add components and build around them. Finally, do the shell and electronic sundries last.

With all of my plans and CAD drawings, I will be making them Open Source because I'm a firm believer. So, if you or anyone else would like to contribute and collaborate, I could form a google group.


----------



## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

not sure if you have a goal for weight of the vehicle or not. another thing im wondering why two motors? i came across this some time ago that you might be interested in, brush-less motor and controller with regen.

http://www.evparts.com/products/str...4-to-48-volt-street-vehicle-motors/mt5225.htm
http://www.evparts.com/products/str...72-volt-street-vehicle-controllers/ct5225.htm

the motor seems like a good fit since it is only 22lbs. you can get regen with ac system but the cheapest ac kit i have seen is $2,300. though you get the motor controller and other bits.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

laminarflowone said:


> I spent my lunch break doodling and looking at velomobiles and recumbent trikes. I am really inspired by the aerorider. Seat two people, made of bamboo/hemp, with bike rack. I'm sold.
> However, I think I would use two 26" wheels in the front and a 29er in the back. That way, come winter time, I could easily exchange the slicks with some nice knobbies.


I love the Aerorider!

One thing to be careful of with considering 26" bike wheels. With a trike there are huge side loads when cornering. A bike wheel isn't strong enough to take a side load as the bike would lean into the turn keeping the loads through the rim into the road. This is why more recumbent trikes have 20" wheels then 26" on the rear.
Also at the front a 26" would need more width in the track and the body to give clearence for steering.

If you have small wheels you should be able to find knobblies used on kids MTB wheels.


----------



## laminarflowone (Dec 12, 2010)

I wish I had the cash for the Aerorider! 
I primarily/arbitrarily decided 26 up front and 29 in back due to the prevalence of tire options, for both slicks and winter tires. It also helps that my room-mate is a professional MTBer, and I get all the 26 and 29 tires I want for free . For one, I will be in IL, not MA, so I won't be taking all too many turns on the road, but I certainly see what you mean. I was planning on using Free Ride or Dirt Jump wheels because they seem to be the most willing to take the abuse, but I'm certainly open to other options. I need to have truly over-built knuckles, axles, and rims because this will be a tandem tadpole trike...with a 42V system! 

I'll be ordering the parts from 80/20 to build my frame jig tomorrow...I finally finished the design. First, I will build the recumbent basic frame, then add to the space-frame.


----------



## laminarflowone (Dec 12, 2010)

This is my goal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQB_tgS7f0&feature=player_embedded

On a serious note, I would like to be sitting at a similar height for road visibility.

I was also looking through the Northern catalogue, and it seems that something like this could be used for suspending the front two wheels independently and economically.








The only downside is that these spindles are welded on, so it would be extremely difficult to machine them to 20mm to accept DH or dirt jump wheels. It doesn't seem like there are any other options with removable spindles...


----------

