# [EVDL] The Toshiba SCiB battery



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It's similar to Altairnano, so probably insanely expensive.

Larry Gales wrote
> 
> The recent upgrade to the Toshiba SCiB battery to 100 wh/kg sounds like a
> very impressive achievement. While its energy density of 100 wh/kg is a
> little bit low, its other characteristics (250,000 mile 20 year life, its
> ability to work at -22 degrees F, etc) make it seem like a wonderful
> battery. Here is a description of it at:
> 
> http://e2af.com/interview/091009.shtml
> 
> Does anyone know what it cost, or if there are other characteristics that
> make it less desirable then it appears?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Larry Gales
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20111217/d0187e1d/attachment.html 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-Toshiba-SCiB-battery-tp4209130p4209242.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't know about INSANELY expensive: the Honda FIT EV with a 20 KWH
battery (but appears to be equivalent in range to the 24 KWH battery of
the Leaf), costs $36,600, or only $1000 more than the Leaf, so the battery
cannot be THAT much more expensive.

-- Larry



> AMPhibian <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > It's similar to Altairnano, so probably insanely expensive.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Altairnano seems to just have grossly incompetent management. It is a very
top heavy company. I wouldn't use the company as a benchmark for what is
possible with the chemistry. I attended a presentation on their battery by
their then head of technology in the spring of 2008, and he pitched it as
very high power density, operation over a very wide temperature range, and
very long cycle life, and the spec's he presented for these were very
impressive. When someone in the audience pointed out its significantly
lower energy density, he re-emphasized the merits of high power density. 
Sounds like maybe Honda has figured out how to increase energy density a bit
without giving up too much on power density and temperature performance, but
only incrementally so far.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-Toshiba-SCiB-battery-tp4209130p4210962.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The LiTi powder costs 2x as much LiFePo4, but the battery costs is at least 10x as much. I thought it is a patent issue...

Sent from my iPhone



> tomw <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Altairnano seems to just have grossly incompetent management. It is a very
> > top heavy company. I wouldn't use the company as a benchmark for what is
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nice!

With a decent power and a large usefull SOC "window" we can downsize and op=
timize the pack better.

100Wh/kg is good enough for many, for example at short "24/7 routes" it can=
be used with the automatic fast charging systems.



6000 cycles is a very good number at high rate, nice for example fleet-vehi=
cles with =

10C chargers at many short stops in a city or industrial use.

http://e2af.com/interview/images/091006/img_02.jpg
If
this cells will be at about the same target $ / kwh (125?) as LiFePO4, =

then it will probably be the prefered one, due to better thermal =

performance and cycle life. =




one thing against LTO: low voltage =3D more cells =3D more bms and other co=
sts.





-The cycle graph at our normal low winter temperatures (-30=B4C) indicates
that it still WILL be problems when charging them at wintertime, =

right? =


After just a few hundred cycles, it have taken a lot of damage? =


So this cells still need heaters and expensive good insulated boxes and so =
on.., I guess. =


:-( =


But they seems to preform winter-discharges better than some of the best Li=
FePO4, =




Sadly they dont specify if discharges or "storage" is possible at lower win=
ter temperatures, =


But the normal "Automotive" classification of components is at -40=B4C , ri=
ght ?



Here in sweden(north) we do not see below -40=B4C very often, and if so,, t=
hen it is just for some days maximum I guess =






--- Other: ----

I have seen this idea for 6-7 years ago, high voltages "Li2FeSiO4", =


But still they seems to not be in any kind of production yet, in Sweden.

http://lifesize.se/background.html =


You can Search for pdf-papers from this guy: "Anton Nyten" , and you will f=
ind more in detail info / or patents. =


The chem have a higher voltages, higher Wh/kg and very cheap raw materials.=
I think their goal is to compete cost of LiFePO4 and the best Wh/kg



I dont know what the main problem are, why this is not in at least pre-prod=
uction. =


We dont have any good production sites here and not the =

knowledge/research in cell high volume *producion* as far as I know of, =

maybe that is one of the problems.



/ Johan



> From: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:50:28 -0900
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Toshiba SCiB battery
> =

> The LiTi powder costs 2x as much LiFePo4, but the battery costs is at lea=
st 10x as much. I thought it is a patent issue...
> =

> Sent from my iPhone
> =

>


> tomw <[email protected]> wrote:
> > =
> 
> > > Altairnano seems to just have grossly incompetent management. It is a =
> ...


----------

