# to quote Duncan" I am legal"



## Plymouth60 (Sep 4, 2012)

Congratulations!! It is a fantastic achievement. Can you post some photos.
My MX5 passed certification a couple of weeks ago and is now legal too.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

she is not pretty but it is legal
now to clean her up and get the funds to get more batteries 
there is more in the blog at the bottom and I will update it later


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## MisterSid (Feb 26, 2014)

Congrats on a nice job. Pretty or not it is practical.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

thanks whats yours ?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I knew I had forgotten somebody
I didn't see you at the drags the other weekend!
You all OK?
How is the pickup going?


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## MisterSid (Feb 26, 2014)

evnz said:


> thanks whats yours ?


Saddly nothing yet...but here looking to fix that. Wife is happy to support (if I sell my other toys) the build. The`1966 Ex-mil Landy and 1989 ZXR400 should give me some cash to get rolling.

Background/Foreground:

Range: 40km min (I live rural). 100km max
Speed: negotiable, but 80kmph is fine, 100k goal
Budget: I pump $5-6K of petrol into my car each year so guess 10k starting point and take it from there.

Still looking for a vehicle at his time as without a vehicle all other choices are meaningless (I think). I read all the info on your conversion as a 2+2 2wd hi-lux basically on the top of my list. I have been thinking too much so now I should just build something.

I feel I have (or have access) the equipment and skills to do a build. Just a bit daunted by the proposition if actually doing it. I build software for a living, have build race/sprint cars from the ground up (i.e. engine and chassis) and know a bit about electronics (read enough to respect/be afraid of high voltage DC)

I have a fine car sitting in drive way (Mazda 323, BE model sedan), but due to LTNZ ffobar it is de-reg so guess cost it will cost too much to get back on the road. The 'wife rules' say 2+2 or bigger so looking for coolish coupé (Supra, Prelude), a nice to drive like 3/5 series BMW or a practical extra cab ute at the moment. (extra cab 2WD hi-lux would be perfect)

Any advice you have would be gratefully received. Is there anything you would do differently if starting again?


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

MisterSid said:


> Saddly nothing yet...but here looking to fix that. Wife is happy to support (if I sell my other toys) the build. The`1966 Ex-mil Landy and 1989 ZXR400 should give me some cash to get rolling.
> 
> Background/Foreground:
> 
> ...


I did mine for a lot more ($25000) but don't get me wrong but I made mine bullet proof ,Duncan did his from the chassis up and did it for about that so it comes down to you in the end.
As for changing things the main would be more batteries to get the volts up (as it stands i have a 40 km range at 100 km/h) I would have gone for a hi voltage motor as well 
In saying that i still get a kick out of people when they take it for a drive the look on there face says it all then they talk about how quiet it is.
Detuned it is like i hilux turn up the controller an its like a quick 6 cylinder and thats only at 50%


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Duncan said:


> I knew I had forgotten somebody
> I didn't see you at the drags the other weekend!
> You all OK?
> How is the pickup going?


Where was the drags ? Did i miss our one? Bu...er
Yes its good but i need to sort a heater fast,should get a 12 v hair drier for now


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

The drags were back on the 16th Feb

The device has been acting up with an intermittent glitch in the controller,
But on the Sunday it was perfect,
Drove to the strip,
six runs!
Drove home

Then on Monday its back on strike - I have a new board ordered should be here soon, that should fix it


Hi Sid
My "Device" cost about $8,000 - including $2,000 to get it on the road and legal

Motor - $100
Controller - $600
(I have had some difficulty with this - my experience with electronics was nonexistent - I think I can NOW build myself a good controller)
Batteries - ~ $3500
Charger $150

The rest was on building the car


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## MisterSid (Feb 26, 2014)

I was just looking at your 'Device' as I originally wanted to build a custom car from ground up. Wife taked me into cutting my EV teeth on a (budget) conversion first and with luck will let me do a custom build after that. See quite likes you build so custom first is still on the cards 

Thank you for the sharing your costings as it looks very similar to what I had budgeted for (with a few more cells). I was interested in building a Revolt controller (or something similar) as I am comfortable building the low voltage/DSP side and have a friend that can check the power stage for me. Any thought on what you will be doing?

Back to reading after some fresh inspiration. Cheers.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

MisterSid said:


> I was just looking at your 'Device' as I originally wanted to build a custom car from ground up. Wife taked me into cutting my EV teeth on a (budget) conversion first and with luck will let me do a custom build after that. See quite likes you build so custom first is still on the cards
> 
> Thank you for the sharing your costings as it looks very similar to what I had budgeted for (with a few more cells). I was interested in building a Revolt controller (or something similar) as I am comfortable building the low voltage/DSP side and have a friend that can check the power stage for me. Any thought on what you will be doing?
> 
> Back to reading after some fresh inspiration. Cheers.


Couple of things I would do differently
(1) I used bronze welding - great process but slow and expensive - I should have simply forked out for a MIG
(2) I retained the struts on the front - should have just gone for twin wishbone - not that it would work better just make the front easier to make
(3) The rear is too high - I designed with standard struts then I bought fancy adjustable ones - could have dropped the rear bodywork
Again not a functional problem but it would have looked better

Controller - I have had some problems with the OpenRevolt - all my own fault
I am going to rebuild the 500 amp controller but I really want the 1000 amp unit - which is still under development
If I was rich I would have bought the Soliton - it is a lovely unit

I want 700 amps + as I wish to be able to spin the rear tires

Motor
My 11 inch motor is lovely and only cost $100

Batteries
I have had some problems with the Headway cells
I bought them direct from China - the support has been first class they have replaced all of the faulty ones free
The 16Ah cells I bought are now obsolete, I hope the later ones don't have the problems 
The main issue is that they weren't 16Ah - the actual capacity ranged from 13 Ah to 15,5Ah -
So when I thought I was using a conservative 80% I was actually using a very risky 98%
I have measured them all and I hope I won't kill any more
As I said excellent support from China - replacing faulty cells even when they were nearly 2 years old
The Headways enable a small pack to give a lot of punch - but if you need more range then you should look at CALB


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## MisterSid (Feb 26, 2014)

Thanks for the great info.

Surprisingly I have gained the wife’s permission to build a Locost (I have the Haynes book and have been researching very spare minute since seeing 'The Device')., but I think I will convert my old Mazda 323 sedan first. It is just taking up space at the moment, it will be practical (4 seats), and have less distance requirements (40k round trip for school run etc. vs. 75km to get me to work) and once done I can use my Subaru as a parts donor.

Once I am comfortable then it will be Locost 7 time. It could take me a while to get to get my head around the build and I like doing things well (or I never finish them).

I will start my quest to find a good forklift motor (or whole forklift) tomorrow.

Plan:
Car: Mazda 323 (BF) sedan, 5 Speed 
Motor: 10kw-ish, 48v (something like Duncans if I am lucky)
Controller: Open Revolt
Batteries: Lipo, 140-ish volts, kWh TBC


Many thanks both evnz and Duncan for the advice and inspiration.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

MisterSid said:


> Thanks for the great info.
> 
> Surprisingly I have gained the wife’s permission to build a Locost (I have the Haynes book and have been researching very spare minute since seeing 'The Device')., but I think I will convert my old Mazda 323 sedan first. It is just taking up space at the moment, it will be practical (4 seats), and have less distance requirements (40k round trip for school run etc. vs. 75km to get me to work) and once done I can use my Subaru as a parts donor.
> 
> ...


make sure you get the1000 amp controller its better to have to much than not enough power 

duncan
what size forklift did your motor come from?


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## MisterSid (Feb 26, 2014)

evnz said:


> make sure you get the1000 amp controller its better to have to much than not enough power.


Good advice, not being able to deliver enough amps seems to be a common. It looks like the 100 amp Open Revolt has burst back into life with support from Duncan and others. Yay!


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## louismoulton (Apr 23, 2014)

Hi
I'm just trying to work through my thoughts on a small 4wd conversion. I only need 20 km range. How did you get certification? The nearest certifier is in Dunedin? I feel I must be missing something here? How much was the certification? Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Louis

You need to go to
http://www.lvvta.org.nz/contact.html#certifier
And download the definitions and the certifiers

EV's are 4A and 4B - in the list of certifiers it only lists - 4 
Roy McDonald in Dunedin is the only certifier listed on the South Island 
Have a look yourself - maybe I missed one

The Device cost about $1400 to be certified - its a scratchbuilt so a modified car should be cheaper

Once it was certified VTNZ took a bite to get it road registered and on the road so It cost about $2000 to get it on the road

It's great fun to drive


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## davidmillin (Dec 14, 2013)

Hi Duncan



> The Device cost about $1400 to be certified - its a scratchbuilt so a modified car should be cheaper


I had anticipated certification cost to be around $300 for the certifier and around $300 for a years registration for my car (Modified small car) is this just fanciful thinking on my part? Are there other costs I am unaware of?.

Cheers
David


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

davidmillin said:


> Hi Duncan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I paid $900 to get my ute certerfied plus freight to dunedin


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

louismoulton said:


> Hi
> I'm just trying to work through my thoughts on a small 4wd conversion. I only need 20 km range. How did you get certification? The nearest certifier is in Dunedin? I feel I must be missing something here? How much was the certification? Thanks in advance for any advice.


You will be using lead acid or lithium batteries ?
I have a lithium pack and max (100%dod) 50km but I was told only to use 70 % about 30 km


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

davidmillin said:


> Hi Duncan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi David
The cert will cost more than that - it cost Owen $900
plus you will need to trailer your car to Dunedin and leave it there for a few days

My first registration came with an extra inspection fee as it was its first ever - don't know if you will have to pay that

Also the registration will be more than a petrol car to cover ACC costs as you will not be paying ACC on your petrol
I think it was about $100 extra 

For the non Kiwis
ACC is a wonderful system here where all personal injuries are covered by the Accident Compensation Corporation
Medical bills and lost wages
This is paid for by levies on industry, fuel and motor vehicles
And its a bargain - because there are no lawyers involved the total cost is a fraction of the equivalent in other countries

If McDonald's had scalded that woman in NZ she would not have got a multimillion dollar award (which she didn't get anyway) but she would have had her costs covered and OSH would have gone after McDonald's for a massive fine with escalating penalties if they didn't fix the problem
(deciding that it was OK to increase the temperature in order to be able to use a cheaper coffee despite the increased scald risk)


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Hi louismoulton 
As for your 4x4 brand ? Weight ? And motor you will use to drive it ? As you can see mine is a toyota hilux and it weighs 1400 kg with it at 270 amp out of the batteries @ 155 volts it will do 100 km/h in 20 seconds about the same as the ute was as a diesel but only cost $1.02 per 12 km ( not including build cost)
Having fun
Owen


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## davidmillin (Dec 14, 2013)

Thanks for your replies Duncan and Owen. There are 5 certifiers in NZ in Auckland, Hamilton, Palmerston North, Lower Hutt and Dunedin. The Certifier I will be using Martin Jones from Palmerston North comes up to Hawkes Bay on a fairly regular basis so I should be able to avoid transport and storage.

Cheers David


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## louismoulton (Apr 23, 2014)

Registration of an electric car in nz is free. Certification? I think about $1000,but please correct me if you know.better. Looks like if you are chch, you will have to take it to Dunedin!


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## louismoulton (Apr 23, 2014)

I plan to use a lada niva. 1000kg with ice. I have a 48 volt 330 amp forklift motor, planning to use 72 volts (6 batteries) the controller I'm looking at is 500 amp from china. I only need at the most 20 km range so 115 amp/hr crown batteries should do that. Is it ok to use increased voltage and current with the motor for the certification? I am lead to believe these series wound motors can handle three times the rated voltage or current. I will probably have to take the car to Dunedin for cert... Any thoughts?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

louismoulton said:


> Registration of an electric car in nz is free. Certification? I think about $1000,but please correct me if you know.better. Looks like if you are chch, you will have to take it to Dunedin!


Registration of an electric car in nz is free.
It would be nice! but no - it is more expensive than a petrol car


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

louismoulton said:


> I plan to use a lada niva. 1000kg with ice. I have a 48 volt 330 amp forklift motor, planning to use 72 volts (6 batteries) the controller I'm looking at is 500 amp from china. I only need at the most 20 km range so 115 amp/hr crown batteries should do that. Is it ok to use increased voltage and current with the motor for the certification? I am lead to believe these series wound motors can handle three times the rated voltage or current. I will probably have to take the car to Dunedin for cert... Any thoughts?


Sounds fun please keep us up with the build
And keep in mind that your lead acid batteries will have a two year life span
Owen


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## louismoulton (Apr 23, 2014)

My mistake , it's the road user charges are waived. I did not know acc would be charging so much. How do I find out how much I would need to pay? Is it based on km travelled?


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## louismoulton (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks. It will be a slow build. Two year life span is poor! That's why I'm using only 115 amp hr batteries. Any one know about the motor ratings? Can I apply more volts and current and still get certified? I believe the rating to be a continuous rating. Thanks louis


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

louismoulton said:


> Thanks. It will be a slow build. Two year life span is poor! That's why I'm using only 115 amp hr batteries. Any one know about the motor ratings? Can I apply more volts and current and still get certified? I believe the rating to be a continuous rating. Thanks louis


Motor ratings - not on the cert plate!

I got certified with a 10Kw 48v motor with an OpenRevolt - 75Kw 150v controller

All the cert plate says is - Lithium Ion

Which may be a problem if you go Lead and then fix it later


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## davidmillin (Dec 14, 2013)

Hi Louis



> My mistake , it's the road user charges are waived. I did not know acc would be charging so much. How do I find out how much I would need to pay? Is it based on km travelled?


http://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicle/registration-licensing/fees.html

Has the registration(one off) and licensing(continuous) charges. Looks like $421.94 for 12 months and either 572.64 or 603.69 for first new registration (includes 12 months licensing although you could probably just pay the first 6 months at 361.77 or 392.82) I don't Know how they determine the cc rating of an electric vehicle whether it is what it was previously or a nominal value. It is not based on km traveled at all. The certifiers charges are additional to this my certifier quoted $300 unless I can tie it in with someone else who needs work done up this way and share his costs.

Hope this helps

David


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Motor ratings - not on the cert plate!
> 
> I got certified with a 10Kw 48v motor with an OpenRevolt - 75Kw 150v controller
> 
> ...


my cert plate said 30kw 
I agree about the lead acid change you may need to re cert it (another trip to Dunedin) for lithium


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