# how to reach 50-55 mph?



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

need more information on the 72v motor
72v will get you to the speed u want
accelleration will be similar to normal car

a kart doing 90kph/55mph wont be stable at all, you might want to take a page from forkenswifts book or convert a bike


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Good to , ill see if I can get some more info on it, and make it more steady, like a dune buggy or something


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Your gearing needs to match your motors top rpm.

So with the motor at its peak rpm, the gearing you have only allows for that top speed.


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

What should I think about for gearing though


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

A 72v system will be cheap and easy to build. As example, my 1900 lbs car reach over 60 mph with only 72v (but I've 5 ratios transmission).

Is your goal is performance or cheap build?
Do you need a reverse?


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

How would I match ratio with rpm though?


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Oh I wasn't going to have a transmission. Well. Id like to drive it to work everyday, but also drift in it. Money isn't a huge obstacle, but still in my mind though. Reverse is nice but not a requirement, but still nice. What wattage is that motor? Remember this is a buggy not a car. I guess performance is more important


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

nickydlax said:


> What should I think about for gearing though


This depends on the diameter of your tires.

Lets just assume your tires are 24" diameter and your motors max RPM is 6000 and you want to go 55 mph at that max motor RPM point.

A 24" diameter tire will advance 75.3982 inches per revolution (diameter * pi.) 55 miles per hour is 3484800 inches per hour (55 * 5280 * 12.) 3484800/75.3982 inches gives 46219 revolutions per hour. Divide by 60 to get an rpm of 770.3. To get from 6000 motor rpm to 770.3 wheel rpm means you need a reduction ratio of 7.79 : 1 (6000/770.3).

You are probably going to want to set the 55 mph point at a little lower motor RPM. This would be to keep the motor operating within its torque curve.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Doug has it spot on.

So what are you building? A go-kart, buggy, car? Any pics?


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Are motorcycle tires really that big? Yeah that's twice as much rpm as some 72v go kart motors im looking at, some beast ones go up to about 3700


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Doug do you mean a motor that has a lower top rmp?
Skooler im building a go kart that may be a little on the big size, but barley


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Road legal?


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Yeah that'll happen eventually


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

nickydlax said:


> Doug do you mean a motor that has a lower top rmp?
> Skooler im building a go kart that may be a little on the big size, but barley


You need to apply the numbers for your build and work through the equations. I am pretty sure I gave enough detail so you could punch in your tire diameter and desired max motor rpm. If you know the tire size you can go to one of the calculators on the internet and it will tell you the diameter. Or I can compute it for you. (example 185/70-13 tires have a diameter of 23.2 inches.) A go cart would be smaller. That size seems about right for a dune buggy which was why I chose 24 inches for the example. 6000 rpm is reasonable for motors in this size.

Depending on voltage and current motors have a fairly flat torque curve that extends from 0 rpm to some rpm and after that point the torque tapers off in a fairly linear fashion with an increase in RPM. To a point you can simply increase the voltage and widen the torque band. Similarly you can control the torque by limiting the motor current.


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Yeah ill plug in my numbers into your stuff when I get home, thanks for the help man


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

I got a ratio od 4:1 with 20 inch tires abd at 3700 rpm.... so, shouldn't this take into consideration power? Or is this assuming it can even get that fast?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

nickydlax said:


> I got a ratio od 4:1 with 20 inch tires abd at 3700 rpm.... so, shouldn't this take into consideration power? Or is this assuming it can even get that fast?


The only thing you asked about was gearing. In my example where the rpm limit of the motor was 6000 and your top speed was 55 mph I gave you a gear ratio where that would happen. Assuming the motor would put out enough power to exceed the rolling resistance and air drag this would be the best reduction ratio for a low end torque situation. Without a transmission the reduction ratio is going to be really important in the feel of the vehicle. My reduction ratio was nearly 8:1 which given the same motor and tire diameter would provide twice the torque at the face of the tire.

With a given motor the torque is proportional to amps. You want a lot of torque given you don't have a transmission which acts as a torque amplifier. The motor will have a current limit and will be rated for a certain torque specification at that current. You will need a motor controller that can provide that current and you will need batteries that can put out that amount of power. The reduction ratio combined with tire diameter is the other part of all this. Gearing for higher speeds will reduce the torque at the face of the tires. Decreasing the tire diameter will also increase the torque at the expense of top speed.


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

First off I disagree with the statement the it will be unstable above 55mph we run my daughters cart at 72 and it's completely stable shooting for higher top end we run 7 inch dork lift motor @ 60 volts 1.21 to one gear ratio 400 amps 71.9 mph

Had to detune it for drag strip due to her age 60 foot time was 1.8sec 1/8mile 9.6 @60.48 mph


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

slimdawg said:


> First off I disagree with the statement the it will be unstable above 55mph we run my daughters cart at 72 and it's completely stable shooting for higher top end we run 7 inch dork lift motor @ 60 volts 1.21 to one gear ratio 400 amps 71.9 mph
> 
> Had to detune it for drag strip due to her age 60 foot time was 1.8sec 1/8mile 9.6 @60.48 mph


What diameter are the tires? If they were 8 inch diameter at 72 mph that would be a motor rpm of 3661.


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

11 inch diameter


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Mine will be roughly 20


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

That sound like an interesting project!
If you want a fun buggy, 72v is correct..., but If you want a high performance buggy, I would suggest you to start with a 1000A controller (like Zilla 1K or Ziva MC1000C).
Like that, you will be able to increase performance or upgrade if you want.
Here is a friend with his kart with Zilla set at 100v and 800A (if I remember correctly): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UOToi0fHNs

Also, keep in mind that if you want high performance, you will need high performance battery ($$$$). No performant battery, no performant at the motor shaft...


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Ill look into it, thanks man
Has anyone heard of goldenmotor? They look like they have a lot of options, lots of power too.


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Soooo maybe 72v, but what wattage?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

nickydlax said:


> ....goldenmotor? They look like they have a lot of options, lots of power too.


No, 13 hp continuous and a peak power around 26 hp isn't what I call "a lot of power".
Especially with the low rating torque available from those motors (less than 25 lbs-ft). I can't find the peak torque of those motors with the HPC700H controller (their most powerful controller).

If you need to keep it simple and go with a 72v system, I suggest you to use an Alltrax controller. The SPM-72500 or the SPM-72650 coupled with a 8 or 9 inches motor should give you good performance. (evdrives.com)

If you need high performance, a 1000A controller coupled with an 9 inches motor will give you between 180 lbs-ft and 250 lbs-ft of torque. 
With proper battery pack and if you keep the overall weight low, you can expect to beat everything on the road at low speed (0-60 mph).

You can also keep an eye on those AC motor kit who can do a good work too. http://hpevs.com/

About reverse, do you think about the idea to use a transmission coming from a small car (geo metro or other)?
And finally, please share picture if you have one!


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

I was going to try to keep it simple and not use a transmission, as most go don't have one.

As long as I can beat most things on the road up to 60mph ill be happy

Could I get a fancy controller that has a reverse or does it not work like that? I wish I had pictures but im still in the design phase

Ill look into alltrax. Was your first paragraph in response to my question about goldenmotors? I found a 48-92v 3-7.5kw motor from them
P
I would feel more comfortable (reason unknown) that I get most of my stuff from one manufacturer, golden has everything from throttle pedals, controllers, small water pumps for water cooled motors (I sorta like the water cooled idea-idk why) Maybe becuase it's a reassurance that everything will match up and work together


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

nickydlax said:


> I was going to try to keep it simple and not use a transmission, as most go don't have one.
> 
> As long as I can beat most things on the road up to 60mph ill be happy
> 
> Could I get a fancy controller that has a reverse or does it not work like that? I wish I had pictures but im still in the design phase


If you don't use a transmission you need a LOT more torque or you won't be happy with the acceleration.

Reverse depends on the motor. With a Series DC motor it takes three full power contactors to flip the field winding polarity. With a permanent magnet DC motor it takes two double throw relays or four full power contactors to switch the direction. With an AC motor the controller can simply tell it to run the other direction.

Lets say your vehicle ends up weighing 1000 lbs. If you have 1000 lbs of force at the face of the tires you would be able to accelerate at 1G assuming enough tire grip. This would probably make you happy. You could make white smoke and squealing sounds would come from the tires easily. A WarP9 motor at 1000 amps will do 240 lb-ft (according to Tesseract's testing). So to get your 1000 lbs at the face of the tire you need a 1 ft radius tire and a 4.16 : 1 final drive. I think you indicated that your tires would be 20" diameter. This is a 10" radius which gives you a small mechanical advantage of 10/12 meaning your final reduction would need to be 3.47 : 1. So now you have a respectable amount of power on the road what does this do for your top speed? The WarP 9 has an official redline of 6000 rpm. At 6000 rpm with 20 inch tires and a 3.47:1 the vehicle should be traveling 102.88 mph. Of course this depends on the battery voltage because with only 72 volts the torque starts to taper off at around 1500 RPM (25.7 mph). Double the voltage and you should have full torque to 51.4 mph. This will take a pretty impressive battery.

As always, your mileage may vary. I am not a professional and I don't even play one on TV.


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Interesting, but mine will wiegh no where close to 1000, its going to be as small as possible and as light as possible, its a go kart, not a car, so there will be no glass or doors or metal besides what is required, maybe 600 with me in it at most (im 160)

But really, what kind of voltage/watage/amperage should I be looking for?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Lighter is better. Look at what other people have done in a similar sized vehicle and then try to decide if the performance will be what you are looking for.


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

That's the problem though, no one is making an overpowerd street legal go kart, and if they are, it's a car

So voltage doesn't make power? Wattage does?


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Actually I found a 20kw 72v (26hp) .....would this be powerful enough


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

nickydlax said:


> So voltage doesn't make power? Wattage does?
> 
> Actually I found a 20kw 72v (26hp) .....would this be powerful enough


Volts * Amps = Watts

Watts/746 = horsepower.

Watts = power.

I don't know how much you would need to be happy. If you had a 26hp ice on your go cart would that be enough? And torque is the important thing for driver satisfaction.


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Happy is beating the majorty of stock cars on 0-60 and eventually reach 45-60 mph


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

This is what the kart my daughter & I built will do is this what your looking for I can give you all the spec.



http://youtu.be/YPl6U_ez_K4



http://youtu.be/YjMTe8cLe2U


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

If that 71.2 is the top speed, yes I would love to know everything youve used/done. Can it reverse?


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

nickydlax said:


> That's the problem though, no one is making an overpowerd street legal go kart, and if they are, it's a car
> ?


 Define "overpowered?
When does a kart become a "buggy" ?... wheel size , weight, speed ?
When does a "buggy" become a car ?

A doubt a "kart" , in any traditional form,..can ever be made legal for road use ( unless you are thinking of a Golf Cart type device)


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

Sorry no reverse simple contractor can fix that


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

71.2 mph current top speed should be faster next weekend 

1.21 to 1 gear ratio 

Weight with driver 350

7.2 inch diameter hi-lo motor 86 lbs.

I'm running an Alltrax spm 48300

(when you floor it I bypass the controller and allow the motor to pull straight from batteries.

8 Nissan leaf batteries 

2/0 wire that is being upgraded to 4/0 getting a little to warm several more upgrades within next month 

Hopefully get 60 foot time down to 1.5 sec


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

I have a neighbor of mine make a dune buggy (gas) street legal

Slimdog would you mind sharing the specs of your and controller? Maybe gear ratio?


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Hm the altrax looks pretty good, what wattage is your motor if you don't mind me asking?
I like the leaf battery idea man


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

16.2 kw originally so far survived

25 kw


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Is 25 the peak or something?


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## slimdawg (Mar 7, 2012)

Yes motor gets fairly warm after a few 1/8 mile runs


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## nickydlax (Jul 23, 2014)

Good to know dude, thanks for all the help everyone


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