# Factory Five 818SEx4 AWD Dual AC drive



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Great motor package. Any thoughts on what kind of battery room you have for this beast? Any idea on what kind of battery you are looking for?

Could you list some drive train specs; reduction, weight? Id love to run some equations for your beast, very impressive drag times should be achievable.


----------



## rtz (Jul 3, 2013)

If I was building a 1 seater car; I'd put a single battery box in place of the passenger seat.


----------



## grip911 (Dec 14, 2011)

Have you decided which voltage you are planning on and what range?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> Great motor package. Any thoughts on what kind of battery room you have for this beast? Any idea on what kind of battery you are looking for?
> 
> Could you list some drive train specs; reduction, weight? Id love to run some equations for your beast, very impressive drag times should be achievable.


Hey Tom. 
Thanks. Ya, the UQM is a nice pkg. I have enough room for batteries. There is the space behind the seat where the gas tank is suppose to go. There is room behind that in the engine bay. I also plan to use the tunnel between the seats. There is still a small amount of space up front, but not much.
I haven't made final decision on battery. . . but I have it narrowed down.
Ratio is 6.54:1 both front and rear. Some options exist here. 
The model name 818 is actually the design weight of this car in kg. Not sure any one has hit that number yet though. I've been doing calcs at 2000 lbs. It may come in a bit over this. Lets see what your calcs show. I get less than 2 seconds 0-60. I actually got 1.7 . . . but I'm not sure I trust that number yet. Seems a bit ridiculous.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

grip911 said:


> Have you decided which voltage you are planning on and what range?


Not precisly yet. However, the voltage will be close to the max (at full charge), which is 425. That puts the nominal in around 360 - 370 nominal for lifepo4. I need to maintain >270 at sag to not compromise performance. 

Range will be somewhere around 100 miles (160km). Of course this is all dependent on driving style.


----------



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Done my calculations based on information i could find online.

What is the chassis weight for a bare roller(no driveline and fueltank)?

What is the tires you are thinking about using? 

Right now according to my calculation a sub 3 second time is possible. 

Any questions or other input is appreciated .


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> Done my calculations based on information i could find online.
> 
> What is the chassis weight for a bare roller(no driveline and fueltank)?
> 
> ...


Hey Thanks Tom. Thats kewl.

I used this ; crap cant get it to attach.

HAven't selected tires yet and don't know weight of Bare roller. I may be able to find out.
I have frontal area at 1.856m2


----------



## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

So what does it take to turn this thing AWD? Is it well suited for the process?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hollie Maea said:


> So what does it take to turn this thing AWD? Is it well suited for the process?


The car is designed for mid-rear engine..... single doner Subaru drive train.

You mean electric drive AWD? I guess you can click the link above and have a look at what I had to do. Like most things, it all comes down to ambition. First you have to really want to do something. . .then the rest comes. Sometimes slow, sometimes slower..
There is a fair bit of head scratching, cutting, grinding and welding.


----------



## grip911 (Dec 14, 2011)

I was looking at the interior of the egear drive, and it resembles a limited slip at the carrier. do you know anything about this?
I guess the next question to be asked is the one of torque biasing and traction.Is the orientation of the motor and egear the same in the front as it is in the rear?


----------



## Vhclbldr (Feb 8, 2014)

Just read through your posts and the linked build thread. I followed the contest and final choice of the 818 for a long time and was thrilled when EV West started building their EV version. I didn't think to check on the Factory Five forum for the 818 owners/builders to follow your build (and others).
Still can't see the pics without clicking on them.

Great job! Post more progress as you go!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

grip911 said:


> I was looking at the interior of the egear drive, and it resembles a limited slip at the carrier. do you know anything about this?
> I guess the next question to be asked is the one of torque biasing and traction.Is the orientation of the motor and egear the same in the front as it is in the rear?


Hey. Ya, I don't believe the diff is an LSD tho. 
Both motors and transmissions are in the same orientation as each other and as they were in the Coda. The egear may be set a diff angles. I can advise details if interested 
I will have the ability to torque vector front to rear but not to individual wheels of course. I think though, that this may be needed mostly for high performance cornering if at all. The closer my weight is to 50/50 the less this will matter I believe. I have similar considerations with regen biasing.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Vhclbldr said:


> Just read through your posts and the linked build thread. I followed the contest and final choice of the 818 for a long time and was thrilled when EV West started building their EV version. I didn't think to check on the Factory Five forum for the 818 owners/builders to follow your build (and others).
> Still can't see the pics without clicking on them.
> 
> Great job! Post more progress as you go!


Thanks man. That's very kewl. Yes there are a couple on there. No AWDs though the EVWest build is owned by Erik Hansen and shows up as 33Machine. Nice clean build 
Another chap bought the White Lightning drive train and sorting that out. 
Perhaps if you join the forum u can see the pics without clicking ....???


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Some more goodies….


----------



## bigmouse (Sep 28, 2008)

Very cool! What are you going to use for BMS on those Volt cells? Did you keep the original BMS boxes and harnesses?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bigmouse said:


> Very cool! What are you going to use for BMS on those Volt cells? Did you keep the original BMS boxes and harnesses?


Thanks Bigmouse. I'm pretty tempted to run BMS-less. I am interested in options though. Did you complete your BMS project? How about Eldis? Do you know if he completed his?
I kept and still have all of the BMS wiring and modules. I just removed them. 

Cheers,


----------



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

How many volt battery packs are you going to use?

You could easily fit an whole other battery in there. i think


----------



## bigmouse (Sep 28, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks Bigmouse. I'm pretty tempted to run BMS-less. I am interested in options though. Did you complete your BMS project? How about Eldis? Do you know if he completed his?
> I kept and still have all of the BMS wiring and modules. I just removed them.


I'm going to be laying out the PCB for the BMS this weekend. It should be ready in a few months. Even if you only use it for monitoring, it's worth it. My BMS is also designed to handle contactor control, detection of welded contactors, isolation monitoring, precharge, and state-of-charge tracking. It also has a dedicated CAN bus to control that Volt charger you're using as well.

Hang on to those modules, for sure!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> How many volt battery packs are you going to use?
> 
> You could easily fit an whole other battery in there. i think


Hey Tom. I was originally planning for a pack around 20 - 25kwh. I settled on the Volt pack because of the price point, configuration, availability and peak power capability. Im not sure it would be easy, but I think I may be able to run two packs in parallel. I really want to keep it light though so, for first iteration I want to see how this works out. I would like to add one more 24v - 1kwh segment to it though. 

Big mouse, can your design accommodate the added block? 


Btw I have a Volt also and am looking at various can controlled options. I have the charger arduino from EVTV already also.


----------



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

It is wierd that EVTV dont have GEVCU modules for charger control. Would not be that hard to implement. 

The dificulty would be message ID overlap, which is easy to figure out once you got all the can data from all the desired bus devices.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> It is wierd that EVTV dont have GEVCU modules for charger control. Would not be that hard to implement.
> 
> The dificulty would be message ID overlap, which is easy to figure out once you got all the can data from all the desired bus devices.


Yes, you could do it with the GEVCU unit also. I have a few reasons for buying the arduino control unit for the chargers. One of them is related to the motor control. I am running two motors and haven't yet determined if I will use one GEVCU (has two CAN channels) or two. 
There are some object modules for some other chargers already done for it I believe.


----------



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Two coda uqm setups right? You could try placing both on one bus see if they both start. This would however mean that you can not determine which inverter sends what info back. Due to the fact the inverters both share the same CANbus ID.

However going with two canbusses would mean that software adapation is needed in the GEVCU.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> Two coda uqm setups right? You could try placing both on one bus see if they both start. This would however mean that you can not determine which inverter sends what info back. Due to the fact the inverters both share the same CANbus ID.
> 
> However going with two canbusses would mean that software adapation is needed in the GEVCU.


yeah… they're gonna need separate buses and adaptation. A bit of code is in order here.


----------



## bigmouse (Sep 28, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Tom. I was originally planning for a pack around 20 - 25kwh. I settled on the Volt pack because of the price point, configuration, availability and peak power capability. Im not sure it would be easy, but I think I may be able to run two packs in parallel. I really want to keep it light though so, for first iteration I want to see how this works out. I would like to add one more 24v - 1kwh segment to it though.
> 
> Big mouse, can your design accommodate the added block?
> 
> ...


Yeah, it has 6 CAN channels. In my application it uses one for each of my two batteries, one for each of my two chargers, one for the vehicle CAN bus, and a spare for "future expansion" (think range extender).


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So I went to Toronto to try out some seats. Good thing too. I had my sights set on the Bride Low Max. No way. They are "made for 140 lb Asian guys" according to the shop owner. . .who just happens to be Asian, and he can't even fit in them.

I just bought one seat and installed the steering column and brake pedal to get an idea of fitment and decide on battery. I think I will not put that battery section next to the seat. It's just too tight.


----------



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

if you put some foam , can you fit comfortably with the battery tunnel installed?

The option would be to make the seats fixed and put the pedals on a rail for adjustment, and make the steering collum also adjustable.

Just like the P1 and la Ferrari.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> if you put some foam , can you fit comfortably with the battery tunnel installed?
> 
> The option would be to make the seats fixed and put the pedals on a rail for adjustment, and make the steering collum also adjustable.
> 
> Just like the P1 and la Ferrari.


 I took another look. I think I can make it work with the batteries in the tunnel if I mod the seats a bit. I'll need to remvoe the inside seat lever, probably modify the outboard one and make a dam close, tight, hugging cover for the cells through the middle. The pack is sitting exactly in the middle when the seat pics were taken.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Back to life. Mounted two Lear chargers, controller, moved part of the battery to new home. Modified rear torque mount location slightly. Mounted EVCC (might move it) made driver’s seat mounts.. tacked in place for now.

posted the same pic 4 times. Been a while. 🙄


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)




----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Decided to move the front motor and egear rearwards almost 2”. Gonna drive some surgery but need a better angle on the half shafts. This thing was not designed for a front drive. All the supports are in the way.


----------

