# Bluetooth Serial Adapter for Zilla/Elithion - Android



## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

great post!
I wonder if it would work with the ipad/iphone?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

So you just need monitoring? (I highly doubt you'd need to set things up while driving)

For the Elithion (only if it's PRO) Why not just use Torque for Android + Bluetooth OBDII dongle:
http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/torque.php

Not sure of anything for Zilla though, it's not CAN.


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## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

I've got the Lithiumate Lite.

I can connect to the Zilla with my ipad and configure it and view some parameters. (No graphic gauges though) The ipad app just acts like a PC hyperterminal.

I THINK I can do the same thing with the Lithiumate Lite.

It's no biggie if I can or cannot, just kinda curious. It would help keep an eye on things.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Lithiumate lite is USB only.... so your iPad would need to support USB Host, which it likely does not.


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## DJBecker (Nov 3, 2010)

vmrod said:


> great post!
> I wonder if it would work with the ipad/iphone?


The iPhone software stack was intentionally limited to work only with Bluetooth audio devices. It's part of Apple's closed design strategy\.

It's possible to jailbreak the iPhone and add additional Bluetooth profile support, but that leads to a whole set of additional problems, including the lack of applications.

Andriod was designed with an open ecosystem, and has long supported the Bluetooth serial profile.


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## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

frodus said:


> Lithiumate lite is USB only.... so your iPad would need to support USB Host, which it likely does not.


I thought I had seen that you can connect a computer (via USB) to the Lithiumate Lite and get a text data stream to it. It is only text (no-graphical). The Zilla has the same capabilities.

I have used the ipad with the Zilla using the 'Get Console" app and a special iphone to USB cable. The app mimicks a PC's hyperterminal. I have used it succesfully with the Zilla. I am guessing that I can likely use it with the Lithiumate Lite too.

I'm out of the country now, but when I get back, I'll be able to report if it can do this.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

You can connect a computer via USB to the lithiumate lite.... because your computer supports the ability to install a USB driver and act as a USB host. iPad and android devices do not neccessarily do so, and if it's Apple, it's very very unlikely that you'd ever get it to act as USB host to anything other than a flash drive.

Get Console is serial and not usb. Zilla is serial. The issue is, Lithiumate Lite is USB.

I've seen people use Lithiumate Pro with get console, but that was via serial, which the lite does not have.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Did anyone succeed to connect an Android tablet to a Lithiumate Lite ?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

As long as you're running 4.0 or above and the device itself supports USB host, then it shouldn't be a problem supporting the FTDI chipset that Elithion uses.

I've had success connecting other devices that use the FTDI chipset (Prologix GPIB converter) with my Samsung Galaxy 2 7inch Tablet. Just got myself a terminal emulator and a USB adapter for it and off it went.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Forgot to add that the bluetooth-serial adapters need 5V power. The Elithion RS232 port supplies 5V out, so it works, but the Zilla (which connects to the serial port via an adapter cable from the telephone jack connector on the Zilla) does not supply 5V.

I solved this by wiring together 2 small barrel connectors - one end plugged into the bluetooth adapter to the Elithion (which gets 5V) and the other end into the bluetooth adapter for the Zilla (which shares the 5V signal from the bms). I was initially worried about different potentials, offsets, loop currents etc... but it all seems to work well (one or more of the devices must provide isolation it seems).


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

frodus said:


> So you just need monitoring? (I highly doubt you'd need to set things up while driving)
> 
> For the Elithion (only if it's PRO) Why not just use Torque for Android + Bluetooth OBDII dongle:
> http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/torque.php
> ...


Great idea - I missed this... I already have an OBDII-bluetooth adapter (cheap $15 device from fleabay) which works with Torque on my Android device...

Do you know if the Elithion BMS CAN network can share the CAN bus of the car? Has this been done? I am not a CAN guru - how would you access each device (assuming only 1 bluetooth connection to the cars OBD port is necessary)?

I see it requires a new version of the BMS firmware - will have to plan for an update... I may even want to buy a spare Elithion base unit - will have to look around for pricing...


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Just make sure that the Zilla is isolated on it's serial port, IIRC, it's not. It should use it's own supply for the bluetooth.

One way to check is is to check the ground of the serial port and see if it has continuity with B- of the controller.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> Great idea - I missed this... I already have an OBDII-bluetooth adapter (cheap $15 device from fleabay) which works with Torque on my Android device...
> 
> Do you know if the Elithion BMS CAN network can share the CAN bus of the car? Has this been done? I am not a CAN guru - how would you access each device (assuming only 1 bluetooth connection to the cars OBD port is necessary)?
> 
> I see it requires a new version of the BMS firmware - will have to plan for an update... I may even want to buy a spare Elithion base unit - will have to look around for pricing...


It should work. You just need to know CAN header of each of the devices and set that up in Torque with a custom PID. You can change that on the Elithion if it conflicts with something else in the car. 

Just need to use 12V, GND, CANH and CANL on the OBD connector and tap into that with the Elithion.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

frodus said:


> As long as you're running 4.0 or above and the device itself supports USB host, then it shouldn't be a problem supporting the FTDI chipset that Elithion uses.
> 
> I've had success connecting other devices that use the FTDI chipset (Prologix GPIB converter) with my Samsung Galaxy 2 7inch Tablet. Just got myself a terminal emulator and a USB adapter for it and off it went.


The Samsung galaxy tablet has a usb, so I can just plug the Lite , but what programs I would need ?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

There's a ton of terminal emulators out there. 

I used Slickdev Labs "Slick USB 2 Serial Terminal"


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

frodus said:


> There's a ton of terminal emulators out there.
> 
> I used Slickdev Labs "Slick USB 2 Serial Terminal"


Thank You.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

We're now working with a user of the Lithiumate Lite, developing a solution that will bring graphic monitoring of the Lite to any platform, by using WiFi and any browser.
We'll announce it when it's ready.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Elithion said:


> We're now working with a user of the Lithiumate Lite, developing a solution that will bring graphic monitoring of the Lite to any platforms, by using WiFi and any browser.
> We'll announce it when it's ready.


That will be great.

Thank You.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

gdirwin said:


> Do you know if the Elithion BMS CAN network can share the CAN bus of the car? Has this been done?


Yes, and yes. You can communicate with the Lithiumate Pro through the OBDII port.



gdirwin said:


> will have to plan for an update


A couple of options: 


Send us the unit (get an RMA first) and we'll do it here
Get a PIC kit II programmer, and we'll do it over the Internet


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## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

Elithion said:


> We're now working with a user of the Lithiumate Lite, developing a solution that will bring graphic monitoring of the Lite to any platform, by using WiFi and any browser.
> We'll announce it when it's ready.


Davide,

how is the progress on this? Some are anxiously waiting!


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

vmrod said:


> Davide,
> 
> how is the progress on this? Some are anxiously waiting!


Dito .....................


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

vmrod said:


> Davide,
> 
> how is the progress on this? Some are anxiously waiting!












Like it?


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Elithion said:


> Like it?


Very nice, when it will be release ? What hardware is needed ?


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

TEV said:


> When it will be released?


Any day. It took us some time to make it work with Apple products, but now we're all set.



TEV said:


> What hardware is needed ?


It's a plug and play box, which we're about to sell. It's a "black box" with a 12 V power input and a USB cable. It's pretty straightforward:


Power it; connect it to the Lithiumate
Select the "Lithiumate" WiFi network on your device; enter "elithion" as the password
Open a browser, go to 10.1.1.1
That's it!


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Elithion said:


> Any day. It took us some time to make it work with Apple products, but now we're all set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds good, I hope the price will be good too


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm placing an order right now for an elithiumate lite, and the new wifi option adds $228 to the price. This is great!


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Joey said:


> I'm placing an order right now for an elithiumate lite, and the new wifi option adds $228 to the price. This is great!


Indeed it's a "great" price. I was afraid of that. Some people are too greedy


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Greedy : " Excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing, especially wishing to possess more than what one needs or deserves. "


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)




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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

$228-$158=$70 for the greedy dealer who does nothing and allready got a chunk of money when he sold the BMS.

This is not a separate product is an improvement of the product making it more attractive for the buyers.

And don't get me rong, I consider your BMS being a very good one and you are free to charge how much you want for it, but after purchasing the BMS I needed to buy extra cell boards and the stealer charged me an insane price, and I did buy the system from the same stealer, and now I refuse to pay the stealer for a product feature who should be included in the product from the beginning.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

$31, not $70



TEV said:


> now I refuse to pay.


I respect that, so I am offering you the instruction on building your own WiFi Hot-spot, courtesy of Peter Chave. 

Please do let us know how it works out for you, how much it ends up costing you, and how many hours you'll spend on it.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Elithion said:


> $31, not $70
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If it's working with others smartphone, not only with the iPhone, then it's the perfect solution for me.

I will look into it.


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

TEV said:


> $228-$158=$70 for the greedy dealer who does nothing and allready got a chunk of money when he sold the BMS.
> 
> This is not a separate product is an improvement of the product making it more attractive for the buyers.
> 
> And don't get me rong, I consider your BMS being a very good one and you are free to charge how much you want for it, but after purchasing the BMS I needed to buy extra cell boards and the stealer charged me an insane price, and I did buy the system from the same stealer, and now I refuse to pay the stealer for a product feature who should be included in the product from the beginning.


Doesn't sound excessive to me. Wireless display is fairly new, and I'm glad they added it as an option to this BMS. How much did you get charged for replacement/spare boards?


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Joey said:


> Doesn't sound excessive to me. Wireless display is fairly new, and I'm glad they added it as an option to this BMS. How much did you get charged for replacement/spare boards?


1PR0106M - Elithion 106mm Cell Board (Middle) $15.00 each
106N1PR0106N - Elithion 106mm Cell Board (Negative) $26.00 each
106P1PR0106P - Elithion 106mm Cell Board (Positive) $17.00 each

The reason for needing more cell boards was that I changed my battery configuration going for more cells , when I ordered it, I wasn't planning for so many cells.

Make sure you got enough cell boards and some extra with your BMS order otherwise you will pay again for the "honor of doing business"


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Those same boards, if bought directly from Elithion as part of a system would cost less.


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

frodus said:


> Just make sure that the Zilla is isolated on it's serial port, IIRC, it's not. It should use it's own supply for the bluetooth.
> 
> One way to check is is to check the ground of the serial port and see if it has continuity with B- of the controller.


Sorry for being so late in seeing this. 
The Hairball serial port is referenced to chassis ground, not the battery pack. So it should be safe as I expect the same from Elithion. 

Also, the Hairball RJ serial port has a +12V pin (unregulated) which could be used to drive a 5V regulator to run the BT module. 

Or, you could run this part http://www.rovingnetworks.com/products/RN240 which can use 4-12V in. Since the Hairball output is unregulated and just comes from the SLI +14 In, it would be advisable to drop the 12V down with a 1 Watt 5.1V zener diode in series with the 12V supply. 

I have been intending to make a solution similar to the new Elithion wifi connection since we need to move forward from the simple serial and offer access to all devices. It looks like Peter Chave has done most of the work. Thanks Peter! I was also planning on using the Rasberry Pi. Seeing this, I'll look into extending his design to access the Zilla Hairball as well.


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## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks Otmar!

it will sure be nice and handy to use the same (or similiar) device to check on my instruments.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes, the Elithion Lithiumate BMS is referenced to chassis ground.

Yes, thank you to Peter Chave! 

We did end up doing it all from scratch, because Peter's solution has some fundamental issues that are insurmountable. Still, it was Peter who inspired us on the general approach. 
We ended up doing the whole project using Python and Ajax, instead of PHP and iframes.

If you want more details, if you think it might help you in your project, please contact me off line and I'll talk to you about it.


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