# Tesla LDU drive shaft conversion



## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Here everyone, 
Thought I'd give you a project update as to what I've been working on ever since AEM bought my Mustang GT Tesla conversion. I decided to make an all wheel drive electric Ford Focus but got lost in Covid hell. So in the mean time I designed and built a new Tesla motor conversion for putting in old Mustangs and Camaro's that does not mean cutting up a classic car. So I developed a split Tesla motor with pressurized oiling, ability to run forward or reverse continuously and direct connect u joints or other types of power take off options. Here's a few picks. I have on the test bench right now playing with it. RPM red line should be about 5700 RPMs as with most V8 cars of yesteryear or yesterday. The motor and inverter are separate units now. Anyway enjoy a few pics. I'll now be hunting the donor car for the project. I'd really like a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda for this.


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## iamflashman (May 26, 2021)

This is a pretty novel approach. I think one of the turnoffs of the Tesla swap is that it must use cv shafts direct to hubs. While this does work when purchasing engineered shafts and hubs, I have seen some pretty dangerous conversions with welded axles and such.

I will be interested in following this. What did you plan to do for differential gears? 

James


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi Flashman, I am using a 2019, 5.0 Mustang 3:55 gears track pack differential. I've changed my coupling to a quick disconnect for being able to tow it to the track without sacrificing battery at the tracks where there's no charging available. Pretty much the not so local Irwindale race track In California. The donor is a 2008 Volkswagen Rabbit. Hopefully it will be as clean or cleaner than my 2007 Mustang GT Tesla swap. You can see that one on Youtube, I have the whole build there start to finish. Here's some pics of the new setup.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Roadstercycle said:


> I am using a 2019, 5.0 Mustang 3:55 gears track pack differential.
> ...
> The donor is a 2008 Volkswagen Rabbit.


Since you show the entire rear suspension and subframe from the Mustang, are you using that in the Rabbit body? That should work, although of course it means substantial structural changes and there's a five-inch track width difference to accommodate... wide rear fenders would presumably be in the plan.

By coincidence, the Ford Mustang independent rear suspension is of the same design (Integral Link) as the Tesla Model S/X independent rear suspension. Ford, Jaguar, BMW and Alfa Romeo all use the integral link design; BMW has been using it for three decades.

An alternative would be to just swap the entire Model 3 rear drive unit with subframe and suspension - no drivetrain customization needed, motor and gearbox tucked into the subframe, and a better track width match. Of course, then there would be no need for the split Model S drive unit.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

brian_ said:


> Since you show the entire rear suspension and subframe from the Mustang, are you using that in the Rabbit body? That should work, although of course it means substantial structural changes and there's a five-inch track width difference to accommodate... wide rear fenders would presumably be in the plan.
> 
> By coincidence, the Ford Mustang independent rear suspension is of the same design (Integral Link) as the Tesla Model S/X independent rear suspension. Ford, Jaguar, BMW and Alfa Romeo all use the integral link design; BMW has been using it for three decades.
> 
> An alternative would be to just swap the entire Model 3 rear drive unit with sub frame and suspension - no drivetrain customization needed, motor and gearbox tucked into the subframe, and a better track width match. Of course, then there would be no need for the split Model S drive unit.



Hi Brian, That's the easy way out, that's no fun, I need projects I can wrap my brain around not copy what someone else is doing. I've already done a Model S Sport motor and subframe into a 2007 Mustang GT which was insane. Actually AEM performance electronics bought that car from me. I've already been down the whole Model S/X and Model 3 subframe road. That's what everyone else is doing now. The Model 3 drive train is narrower, more expensive, and harder to control as everyone wants your first born child for a motor controller for it. Once some people have hacked it and there's is some competition out there control board prices will come down. I'm hoping Damien McGuire Board will finish his design, I have plans to build a few cars with them, until then I'll keep playing with Tesla S motors. I like creating and designing new things, I get bored with the same old, same old. This motor setup is for someone to use in a front engined old Mustang or Camaro and keep there rearend and not have to cut anything up as this setup will go where the engine went using a 2 piece driveshaft. Plus a whole base Tesla model S motor and inverter can be had for about $2500. Try buying a 3 phase off the shelf motor and inverter, that puts out 300+ HP. it's ridiculous. So I'll just keep doing my thing. I'm just building a test vehicle for myself and of course it will have rear flares, kinda like a rally car, just fun.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Roadstercycle said:


> That's the easy way out, that's no fun, I need projects I can wrap my brain around not copy what someone else is doing.


I get that - it's the "makes no sense but is a fun project" approach. Next, build a four-wheel-drive jacked-up diesel Corvette...



Roadstercycle said:


> This motor setup is for someone to use in a front engined old Mustang or Camaro and keep there rearend and not have to cut anything up as this setup will go where the engine went using a 2 piece driveshaft.


I understand that, but the Rabbit isn't a longitudinal engine RWD vehicle like a Mustang or Camaro.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Roadstercycle said:


> The Model 3 drive train is narrower...


Yes, that (and having the motor ahead of the axle line rather than behind it) is why the Model 3/Y rear drive unit (particularly with subframe and suspension) is more suited to the Rabbit or a similar conversion than the Model S/X equivalent.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Actually what does the Rabbit have to do with it? It's just a body I choose. I have 6 batteries in the engine compartment. My idea was with the motor directly attached to the Mustang diff I can get the perfect weight ratio and I can change the ring and pinion from 3.15 to 4.56, actually even higher but I won't be climbing any walls with it. Tesla is 3.14 to 1 if you want to compare. Can you change the rear ring and pinion on a Tesla on a whim? Not really. Zero EV makes I believe a 4.15 to 1 or something close to that for big tire Land rovers so there's no sense in bringing that up.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

I could of put the engine under the hood of the rabbit but I decide not to. I'm testing reduction drive that I designed for the motor, not a drive shaft.


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

There's a real market for this. Right now, the only motor that is easily hooked up to a driveshaft or ICE transmission is the pricey aftermarket AC51/Hyper9 or the Nissan Leaf. The Tesla motor has more torque and a higher RPM than all of them...and now that I know half the Tesla motor is a detachable inverter...it makes packaging much easier since they can be separated!


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi Tremelune, My thoughts exactly, this should be an affordable alternative to high cost low horsepower setups. I guess "affordable" is in the eyes of the person doing the build.


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## Doug'sAvanti (Jun 14, 2021)

Roadstercycle said:


> Hi Flashman, I am using a 2019, 5.0 Mustang 3:55 gears track pack differential. I've changed my coupling to a quick disconnect for being able to tow it to the track without sacrificing battery at the tracks where there's no charging available. Pretty much the not so local Irwindale race track In California. The donor is a 2008 Volkswagen Rabbit. Hopefully it will be as clean or cleaner than my 2007 Mustang GT Tesla swap. You can see that one on Youtube, I have the whole build there start to finish. Here's some pics of the new setup.
> 
> View attachment 122723
> View attachment 122724
> View attachment 122725


Hey Roadstercycle I have an Avanti on a custom chassis with a T Bird Sc drive train less engine that I want to convert to EV it looks to me this set up would work with that drive train , what are your thoughts?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Roadstercycle said:


> Here everyone,
> Thought I'd give you a project update as to what I've been working on ever since AEM bought my Mustang GT Tesla conversion. I decided to make an all wheel drive electric Ford Focus but got lost in Covid hell. So in the mean time I designed and built a new Tesla motor conversion for putting in old Mustangs and Camaro's that does not mean cutting up a classic car. So I developed a split Tesla motor with pressurized oiling, ability to run forward or reverse continuously and direct connect u joints or other types of power take off options. Here's a few picks. I have on the test bench right now playing with it. RPM red line should be about 5700 RPMs as with most V8 cars of yesteryear or yesterday. The motor and inverter are separate units now. Anyway enjoy a few pics. I'll now be hunting the donor car for the project. I'd really like a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda for this.
> 
> View attachment 122453
> ...


Looks a little too compact for the HP.

What chain and sprockets (incl ratio) did you use to get from the motor to the driveshaft yoke?


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

remy_martian said:


> Looks a little too compact for the HP.
> 
> What chain and sprockets (incl ratio) did you use to get from the motor to the driveshaft yoke?


I don't use chain and sprockets for this reduction. It is a helical gear reduction. The gears are good for over 600 HP. I'm building this to test the housing, bearings and external oil pump for spraying the bearings similar to the model 3 setup but my own design.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> What chain and sprockets (incl ratio) did you use to get from the motor to the driveshaft yoke?


As already explained, it's a gear drive.

As for the ratio...


Roadstercycle said:


> RPM red line should be about 5700 RPMs...


If the motor's redline is 14,000, that implies a reduction ratio of about 2.45:1.

I would guess - and it's just a guess - that the stock Tesla first-stage reduction gears are being used. The overall reduction of the large drive unit is something like 9.7:1, but it's done in two stages, and this conversion wouldn't be using the second stage.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

That would make sense as the motor shaft pinion would be a total pain to mount, otherwise.

That said, a 5000+ rpm driveshaft speed may be gearing it too tall for street use


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> That said, a 5000+ rpm driveshaft speed may be gearing it too tall for street use


The sample installation uses a Mustang final drive with a 3.55:1 ratio, which seems like a reasonable typical use. At 5700 RPM driveshaft speed, that's 1605 RPM axle speed. With the stock tire size of that car (315/30R19 for the GT350R track pack), that's 123 MPH or 198 km/h. That makes sense for a car that will see track use, and most variants of a 2019 Mustang can go much faster; however, a street-only car could use significantly shorter gearing for better acceleration. With only one ratio offered in the drive unit, the final drive ratio can be changed to suit the application; if the donor car were a track pack Mustang GT350 it would have had a 3.73:1, and even shorter ratios (such as 4.10:1) are available for that Ford "Super 8.8" final drive.


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## EV Mustang (Nov 23, 2021)

Roadstercycle said:


> Here everyone,
> Thought I'd give you a project update as to what I've been working on ever since AEM bought my Mustang GT Tesla conversion. I decided to make an all wheel drive electric Ford Focus but got lost in Covid hell. So in the mean time I designed and built a new Tesla motor conversion for putting in old Mustangs and Camaro's that does not mean cutting up a classic car. So I developed a split Tesla motor with pressurized oiling, ability to run forward or reverse continuously and direct connect u joints or other types of power take off options. Here's a few picks. I have on the test bench right now playing with it. RPM red line should be about 5700 RPMs as with most V8 cars of yesteryear or yesterday. The motor and inverter are separate units now. Anyway enjoy a few pics. I'll now be hunting the donor car for the project. I'd really like a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda for this.
> 
> View attachment 122453
> ...


Hey Man,

This post immediately struck my eye. I have a 1964.5 (first ever!) mustang convertible that I have been looking to convert with my dad as a fun and challenging project for a while. The problem with looking for kits has been either they are too expensive or too boring (not enough power!), thats why your solution struck me, because I could use a tesla motor which packs the power and just sounds so cool. I am wondering if you would be willing to sell the U joint converter to us so we could use it in our build?

If so, please let me know the price, and maybe we could even pay you to consult us on the build if you would be open to that! thanks, Parker

P.S. I would have sent this as a private message, but I'm new and not able to yet


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What you have is a gussied-up Ford Falcon -- the stock rear end will need an upgrade if you do this and a suspension mod to keep the leaf springs from wrapping up.

The Falcon was only 2300 pounds, iirc, the early Mustang wasn't much more. Battery challenge...


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## Rusted B&B (Nov 6, 2020)

This is pretty cool! This was the whole reason I bought a gs450H transmission/motors due to it have a single output and I can adept it


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

We need to hear it from the man himself.
How was the 5700rpm calculated? It would be nice to know the gear reduction ratio that’s being used.





Roadstercycle said:


> I don't use chain and sprockets for this reduction. It is a helical gear reduction. The gears are good for over 600 HP. I'm building this to test the housing, bearings and external oil pump for spraying the bearings similar to the model 3 setup but my own design.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Bowser330 said:


> How was the 5700rpm calculated? It would be nice to know the gear reduction ratio that’s being used.


The Tesla Model S LDU has a 25-tooth gear on the motor shaft driving a 78-tooth gear on the intermediate shaft. If these gears are being used, the reduction ratio is then 78:25, which is 3.12:1.
Prof. John Kelly's teardown video (@9:30)

If the ratio is 3.12:1, then 5700 RPM shaft output would correspond to 17,784 RPM. Since the P100D motor speed has been listed as 18,000 RPM, this ratio is at least close to correct... and likely exactly correct because those original equipment Tesla gears are being used.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

brian_ said:


> The Tesla Model S LDU has a 25-tooth gear on the motor shaft driving a 78-tooth gear on the intermediate shaft. If these gears are being used, the reduction ratio is then 78:25, which is 3.12:1.
> Prof. John Kelly's teardown video (@9:30)
> 
> If the ratio is 3.12:1, then 5700 RPM shaft output would correspond to 17,784 RPM. Since the P100D motor speed has been listed as 18,000 RPM, this ratio is at least close to correct... and likely exactly correct because those original equipment Tesla gears are being used.


Thank you that’s great work, much appreciated.

Something close to 3:1 is perfect, I was thinking of putting a Tesla motor in-line with a driveshaft of a car or truck and the current offering of 4.5:1 is too much! because the final drive is 2.93 on the car so 4.5 x 2.93 = 13.19, which is 113mph with a 28” tire. Could exceed this momentarily and damage the electric motor.

3.12 is muuuch better 3.12 x 2.93 = 9.14 which is slightly less than the standard oem 9.73. 9.14 at 18k rpm is 164mph with a 28” tire and much more logical for a performance car speed window.

I am guessing I would have to connect the 3.12 yoke from the motor and connect it to a differential (at 1:1) that is inline with the cars driveshaft.


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## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

The motor max speed is a whole lot less important than the rpm at which field weakening begins. You don't want your cruise speed to be using FW or your efficiency will drop quite a bit, as will the steady-state power of the motor. LDU is a bit over 8krpm


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

^^ Your post is very confusing.

The Tesla motor spins way too fast. It needs a gear reduction. That motor + reducer takes it to 3.12:1. 

The yoke connects to the driveshaft and the driveshaft connects to the diff pinion input. That's not "1:1", it's a driveshaft. The diff has a 2.93:1 reduction to the axles.

There isn't a 1:1 gearcase anywhere.

You're also not going to exceed anything "momentarily". Top speed is governed. On the Bolt EV it's 93. Leaf is 89.5 mph. No reason to go faster in the USA.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Sorry I didn’t clarify, I want to add the Tesla motor to an existing ice car to make a hybrid.

So I would not just connect the yoke to the drive shaft and run it to a diff, that’s what I would do for an ev, not a hybrid. I need to put the e-motor inline with the ice run drive shaft so the e motor provides acceleration assist.




remy_martian said:


> ^^ Your post is very confusing.
> 
> The Tesla motor spins way too fast. It needs a gear reduction. That motor + reducer takes it to 3.12:1.
> 
> ...


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Great point and the 8000rpm speed at 9.1:1 would be about 879 wheel rpm and with a 28” wheel that would be 73mph, which would be around my primary cruising highway speed, perfect. 



57Chevy said:


> The motor max speed is a whole lot less important than the rpm at which field weakening begins. You don't want your cruise speed to be using FW or your efficiency will drop quite a bit, as will the steady-state power of the motor. LDU is a bit over 8krpm
> View attachment 125709


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

But you keep saying Tesla motor and inline. That's not supported by OP's gearbox, is it?

How do you think you'll run the power path through this overpowered, underbatteried, hybrid? Why a Tesla motor?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Bowser330 said:


> Something close to 3:1 is perfect, I was thinking of putting a Tesla motor in-line with a driveshaft of a car or truck and the current offering of 4.5:1 is too much! because the final drive is 2.93 on the car so 4.5 x 2.93 = 13.19, which is 113mph with a 28” tire. Could exceed this momentarily and damage the electric motor.
> 
> 3.12 is muuuch better 3.12 x 2.93 = 9.14 which is slightly less than the standard oem 9.73. 9.14 at 18k rpm is 164mph with a 28” tire and much more logical for a performance car speed window.


The 4.5:1 gearing set is offered for people who want to have two outputs, to front and rear axles in a 4WD vehicle, using the Tesla transaxle as both reduction gearbox and front-rear power splitter ("transfer case"). While the 4.5:1 ratio is probably as tall as they could arrange while changing only one of the two gearing stages, it also works out for the Land Rovers for which it was intended.



Bowser330 said:


> I am guessing I would have to connect the 3.12 yoke from the motor and connect it to a differential (at 1:1) that is inline with the cars driveshaft.


The way Roadstercycle's system is intended to be used, you just run one shaft from the output of his 3.12:1 gearbox to your axle or IRS final drive (which in your example has a set of 2.93:1 ring-and-pinion gears in it). No other gear reduction, so 1:1.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> But you keep saying Tesla motor and inline. That's not supported by OP's gearbox, is it?
> 
> How do you think you'll run the power path through this overpowered, underbatteried, hybrid? Why a Tesla motor?


No, it's not readily supported. A transfer case in high range (direct) could be used, but that's a lot of hardware.

An alternative would be to use the whole Tesla transaxle with the available 4.5:1 gearing and a spool replacing the differential, feeding the transmission output to one side of the Tesla transaxle and taking the combined drive from the other side to the axle/final drive. This is a large pile of hardware, so it would only be suitable in a relatively large vehicle... and one that needs such a large motor in a hybrid configuration.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Wow, I have not logged in a bit. So here's some answers. The output is a 3.12 ratio and the diff is a 3.55 so we end up with an 11:07 final drive, great for quick 1/8 mile and rally cross but not high speed. The car was built to test the feasibility of doing this with drive shaft setups in older Mustang and Camaro builds. So far so good but I'm being driven crazy by the gearbox oil pump whine. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated for sure. I'm using a gear pump which are really noisy. I just put 2 new videos up on YouTube with the Tesla under glass Rabbit build and my latest Mustang build with the Model 3 motor. Here's the links.


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## breeze612 (7 mo ago)

Dug late in to this one & not sure if there's a newer post with updated info, but I really like this as a possible option for my '68 camaro built... I have a Roadster Shop chassis & a Read Deal Steel body, so basically building a Camaro from scratch with a full frame and very interested in this way of utilizing the Tesla setup... If there's another post I missed, I apologize. I'll keep digging!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I'm guessing few here know what a Roadster Shop chassis is and people are too busy to go research information you already have.

For starters...

Does it have IRS? What's the inner spacing of the frame rails? What's the track width? Are you willing to flare or tub the body? "the Tesla setup"...which one? What do you want out of the car by doing this?

Take a look @428RC's Corvette thread to see what kind of PITA it might be to squeeze a Tesla LDU (one of many "Tesla setups") into a custom frame.

Also pick up a copy of May 2022 Hot Rod magazine to see what GM is about to launch, which might work better for your application than a Tesla DU. They electrify a 57 Chevy with the GM factory team involved who want to launch a "crate motor"


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The Roadster Shop SPEC chassis (likely the one already purchased) has a beam rear axle with parallel lower and angled upper control arms. Although no single detail is the same as a the stock 1968 Camaro, it is designed to use a stock body and stock-style (or more likely more modern equivalents) powertrain (engine and transmission). The problem with using it for a conversion will be finding somewhere to put the battery.

This thread is about adapting a Tesla motor to be placed longitudinally, driving a remote axle, which could work with the stock Camaro layout. The obvious alternative is to use an entire EV (Tesla or otherwise) drive unit at the rear axle, with an independent suspension instead of the beam axle. That would leave the entire engine compartment for battery, but of course mechanically it's bigger project (due to the required IRS), and it would require body floor modifications (which the RS chassis carefully avoids). The frame rails of the custom chassis are widely spaced (because of the design for a beam axle which is good for fitting in the width of a drive unit, but will be in the way of most IRS.

The Roadster Shop Fast Track chassis is available with IRS. The IRS design (which likely uses C7 Corvette parts) has relatively short arms and widely spaced frame rails (although not as wide as with the beam axle), so it might be a reasonable basis for build with a complete EV drive unit in the rear. The bolted-in rear subframe or crossmembers would need to greatly modified, or completely replaced.


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## breeze612 (7 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> The Roadster Shop SPEC chassis (likely the one already purchased) has a beam rear axle with parallel lower and angled upper control arms. Although no single detail is the same as a the stock 1968 Camaro, it is designed to use a stock body and stock-style (or more likely more modern equivalents) powertrain (engine and transmission). The problem with using it for a conversion will be finding somewhere to put the battery.
> 
> This thread is about adapting a Tesla motor to be placed longitudinally, driving a remote axle, which could work with the stock Camaro layout. The obvious alternative is to use an entire EV (Tesla or otherwise) drive unit at the rear axle, with an independent suspension instead of the beam axle. That would leave the entire engine compartment for battery, but of course mechanically it's bigger project (due to the required IRS), and it would require body floor modifications (which the RS chassis carefully avoids). The frame rails of the custom chassis are widely spaced (because of the design for a beam axle which is good for fitting in the width of a drive unit, but will be in the way of most IRS.
> 
> The Roadster Shop Fast Track chassis is available with IRS. The IRS design (which likely uses C7 Corvette parts) has relatively short arms and widely spaced frame rails (although not as wide as with the beam axle), so it might be a reasonable basis for build with a complete EV drive unit in the rear. The bolted-in rear subframe or crossmembers would need to greatly modified, or completely replaced.


You're correct, Brian... I would be interested in utilizing this as a way to place the motor unit in a traditional motor placement (or maybe where the Transmission would be- I have to cut the body tunnel for a T56 Magnum if I went a fossil route anyway) & run a full driveshaft. Building out the batteries around it in the engine compartment, then in place of the fuel tank. Just an interesting option. No desire to chop of the RS chassis... more mentioned because it would be great for torque management vs. just a unibody with subframe connectors.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

This Tesla-based "crate motor" from EV West is interesting:









The new crate motor by EV West and Revolt fits just like a small-block Chevy


With a longitudinal layout and small-block Chevy mounts, this electric crate motor is bolt-in option for 500 hp and 800 lb-ft of torque.




www.hagerty.com





@428RC


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## breeze612 (7 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> This Tesla-based "crate motor" from EV West is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice find! that's a very elegant solution! Not sure I can stomach the price, but I pinged them to see


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## breeze612 (7 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> This Tesla-based "crate motor" from EV West is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ouch... $40K... Elegant, but I could buy an entire Tesla for that...


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Clearly window dressing for their in-house conversion business at that quoted price. At the low end of $25k in the article, it would be painful but perhaps tolerable given the price of a supercharged crate ICE & transmission.

In any case, cat's out of the bag on the packaging., which I really like..someone here might run with it.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

I don't think you could ever get one for $25,000, I've been hearing closer to $35,000 at the base model setup. Don't quote me as I heard it through the EV grapevine.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi Breeze612, My design is using the primary and secondary Tesla gear reduction and then comes out to use a Dana yoke for various u-joint setups. Testing so far has been quite promising and I don't see really any issues except a noisey oil pump that is splashing the internal Tesla gears. I have moved to a Model 3 gear pump which is much much quieter. I have to design a tank so that the gear oil from the gears spinning will separate the air that gets in the oil. That makes the pump a little louder but still holds 30 PSI which is about perfect. I am going to the Irwindale drag strip drag strip tomorrow to personally to talk to tech about running both the Musktang M3 powered and the VW Rabbit LDU powered split motor. If all goes well with tech then I'm looking at next week for maybe some 1/8 mile times with the "Watt's Up Doc" VW Rabbit.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Roadstercycle said:


> I don't think you could ever get one for $25,000, I've been hearing closer to $35,000 at the base model setup. Don't quote me as I heard it through the EV grapevine.


"EV West has told The Drive that estimated pricing is in the $25,000–$35,000 range for the crate motor package"

No grapevine - from the article I linked.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

Remy, The article was from 2020 very outdated fro what is really going on. I talked to the Revolt business owner (my grapevine) and EV West is not even part of the project, that's another story all together. Give Revolt a call and get the up to date scoop, you'll be amazed as to what is really happening now. Revolt does have those motor setups coming along but like I said I don't think $35,000 will even get a base one at this point.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Understood.

It's sad because that config is what half of the conversions here need.

What I think they should do is offer a kit, with BYODU (bring your own drive unit).

It's the stacked margins that are killing its market viability.

Someone here will do it if they don't.

@Bratitude unfortunately is busy piddling with Leaf stuff 😂


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

I'm really already doing it with the VW Rabbit. With my setup will hook to a drive shaft to a differential Also possibly a 4x4 gearbox but I have not spent any time looking at that. I gave you a link below. I'm a bit busy working with the guys at Electric GT on some of their projects. Not enough time in a day it seems.


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## EV-FAN (May 17, 2021)

Roadstercycle said:


> Hi Breeze612, My design is using the primary and secondary Tesla gear reduction and then comes out to use a Dana yoke for various u-joint setups. Testing so far has been quite promising and I don't see really any issues except a noisey oil pump that is splashing the internal Tesla gears. I have moved to a Model 3 gear pump which is much much quieter. I have to design a tank so that the gear oil from the gears spinning will separate the air that gets in the oil. That makes the pump a little louder but still holds 30 PSI which is about perfect. I am going to the Irwindale drag strip drag strip tomorrow to personally to talk to tech about running both the Musktang M3 powered and the VW Rabbit LDU powered split motor. If all goes well with tech then I'm looking at next week for maybe some 1/8 mile times with the "Watt's Up Doc" VW Rabbit.


If you are looking for good oil pump options for future iterations, Mezieres (disclosure: family) makes a few pumps that would be a good potential fit <https://www.meziereindustrial.com/products/displacementpumps/>. The WP702 is a two stage pump (scavenge and pressure all in the same pump) that would make a pretty trick dry sump system pump. The WP701 is a single stage version. The have been used with a lot of success in ev applications.


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## Roadstercycle (Jun 26, 2019)

EV-FAN said:


> If you are looking for good oil pump options for future iterations, Mezieres (disclosure: family) makes a few pumps that would be a good potential fit <https://www.meziereindustrial.com/products/displacementpumps/>. The WP702 is a two stage pump (scavenge and pressure all in the same pump) that would make a pretty trick dry sump system pump. The WP701 is a single stage version. The have been used with a lot of success in ev applications.


Totally open for suggestions for sure. My biggest issue is noise, are they somewhat quiet? Have you heard them running?


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## EV-FAN (May 17, 2021)

Roadstercycle said:


> Totally open for suggestions for sure. My biggest issue is noise, are they somewhat quiet? Have you heard them running?


For an oil pump I would say it is quiet. It is a gerotor pump which I think results in a relatively pleasant qualitative sound as well.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Probably $800...


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

Roadstercycle said:


> Hi Breeze612, My design is using the primary and secondary Tesla gear reduction and then comes out to use a Dana yoke for various u-joint setups. Testing so far has been quite promising and I don't see really any issues except a noisey oil pump that is splashing the internal Tesla gears. I have moved to a Model 3 gear pump which is much much quieter. I have to design a tank so that the gear oil from the gears spinning will separate the air that gets in the oil. That makes the pump a little louder but still holds 30 PSI which is about perfect. I am going to the Irwindale drag strip drag strip tomorrow to personally to talk to tech about running both the Musktang M3 powered and the VW Rabbit LDU powered split motor. If all goes well with tech then I'm looking at next week for maybe some 1/8 mile times with the "Watt's Up Doc" VW Rabbit.


I like the simplicity of this approach and the more appropriate gear ratio than the Quaife gear swap. The Quaife is not only an inconvenient ratio but it costs as much as the whole drive unit ! You are running off the intermediate gear and cast a new aluminum gear case, right ? It would keep people from needing to mess with swapping an entire rear suspension subframe or chopping up a vehicle. 

How did your runs at the track in your Rabbit go ? Irwindale is not far from me and I didn't even realize there was a track there.

I notice in your bench pics you have the motor and inverter side by side, but is that necessary ? It would be nice if the motor and dana u-joint could fit back in the transmission tunnel of a Camaro and use the original driveshaft without needing a custom two-piece driveshaft while the inverter portion could stay more accessible under the hood. It would also keep the space closer to the front axles free for a front drive unit to create an AWD setup with both motors up front. 

I know you mentioned the Model S LDUs can be had for $2500 on ebay, but it seems more like $4000+ now. The SDU can still be had for $1500 and provides plenty of power for most uses while being a tad lighter. Any reason why this same approach of casting a new case cover, running off the intermediate gear and ditching the final drive gear wouldn't work with the sdu ?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

You can get the SDU for $2500. No need to go with a $4000 Sport DU for this setup whatsoever because you can use _any_ inverter with it.


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

remy_martian said:


> You can get the SDU for $2500. No need to go with a $4000 Sport DU for this setup whatsoever because you can use _any_ inverter with it.


Why would you want to use a different inverter in the sdu ? What inverter would be more cost effective and/or reliable/easy to implement than the built-in Tesla inverter with the Open-Inverter logic card replacement ? I know there is some delicate desoldering of current sensors when replacing the card with the Open-Inverter card, so I am all ears about using a different inverter that would provide a 200kw to the sdu. There may actually be a market to sell on the Tesla inverter to recoup the cost of a different inverter, so I can see the advantage depending on the cost of alternative inverters. I had the impression inverters were generally more expensive and less efficient than the ones built into the Tesla drive units.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

More power from the non-sport motor (the motors are the same) is why. Packaging is why. Availability is why. This design divorces the inverter is why.

Lots of reasons why...and why not.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

remy_martian said:


> You can get the SDU for $2500. No need to go with a $4000 Sport DU for this setup whatsoever because you can use _any_ inverter with it.


I just realized I typed "SDU" when I meant LDU. Sorry for any confusion.


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## UglyCarFan (8 mo ago)

I think Roadstercycle's approach is a great option. Everyone seems to want to jump on the bandwagon of taking an entire rear subframe out of a Tesla, and making that fit. I'm sure that there are many people who will go that route, but for the OP's stated objective of an option for cars like Camaros, it could be just the ticket. That same logic could be applied to my 74 Javelin, and for that matter, why not a C3? I like the idea of splitting the inverter, but still being able to use what Tesla designed for the motor itself.

When you start comparing the cost of ANY unit that is priced at $25k-$40k, to an ICE motor in the same relative price range, I suspect you are eliminating the bulk of the people on this forum. My experience with DIY hobbies has shown that they tend to break down into those who just want to do it what-ever way they like, and those who want to save money. Personally, I'd never spend $25k on ANY motor, although I certainly know people who have. 

As I've commented previously on this foum, my preference would be to support efforts like Damiens, where you can use commonly available parts that a wide group of people could afford, and access. This effort, from Roadstercycle looks like a great option for those of us who have RWD cars/trucks that they don't want to completely hack up.


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

remy_martian said:


> I just realized I typed "SDU" when I meant LDU. Sorry for any confusion.


OK, so does that mean you think the LDU is always worth the extra money compared to the SDU ? And what does your comment about using "any other inverter" mean ? Splitting the inverter and motor into separate components as RoadsterCycle has done has obvious utility, but is there some reason to throw this inverter away and instead use something else ?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

You cited a sport LDU cost at $4000. The Sport is defined by the inverter, not the motor. If the inverter is divorced, as here, you have other inverter choices if you buy the $2500 LDU.

It's that simple.


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

remy_martian said:


> You cited a sport LDU cost at $4000. The Sport is defined by the inverter, not the motor. If the inverter is divorced, as here, you have other inverter choices if you buy the $2500 LDU.
> 
> It's that simple.


No, I didn't. I said the LDU on ebay is $4K. I said nothing about "Sport" or "Performance" models. The Base rear LDUs I see recently on ebay hover around $4,000 so the occasional $2500 offering would make me suspicious. 









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are all "base" and not performance or Ludicrous. Nte the $1550 unit is damaged and the $2450 one is suspicously out of range, local pickup, and with "no return".

Working small front drive units (sdu) are generally available for $1,250 plus $250 shipping, making them $1,500 shipped. 









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