# [EVDL] Thunder Sky batteries



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From what I've heard, the Iron Phosphate LFP cells are great and durable. 
Jukka already has a significant number of miles on them. You want to go with 
the LFP probably. Maybe you can work with him http://www.fevt.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Grasser" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:11 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Thunder Sky batteries


> They say necessity is the mother of invention. Well now that I have 
> actually
> bought my glider and am starting to do some engineering for the project it
> has come to my attention that fitting large sized 6, 8 or 12 volt 
> batteries
> into a motorcycle frame is not really going to work all that well. I know
> that a few Evers are running Thunder Sky batteries and except for the
> instant rejects they have been found to be good batteries. (PLEASE chime 
> in
> if I am going down a bad path here)!!!!
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> PLEASE chime in

FYI there's a dedicated ThunderSky yahoo list
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ThunderSky/

> With all of this in place I could become an importer

The Lithium Iron Phosphate cathodes used by ThunderSky are supposedly
covered by a University of Texas patent, licensed exclusively to
Hydro-Qu=E9bec and spun off as Phostech Lithium www.phostechlithium.com
As an importer you would have to take this potential liability into account.
eg http://bicklebrewer.com/index.php?id=3D486&tt_news=3D433

Steve W



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

As I read it the Thunder Sky batteries are Lithium Ion batteries but I will
do more reading into the product to be sure I am safe.
Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Stephen West
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 6:51 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder Sky batteries

> PLEASE chime in

FYI there's a dedicated ThunderSky yahoo list
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ThunderSky/

> With all of this in place I could become an importer

The Lithium Iron Phosphate cathodes used by ThunderSky are supposedly
covered by a University of Texas patent, licensed exclusively to
Hydro-Qu=E9bec and spun off as Phostech Lithium www.phostechlithium.com
As an importer you would have to take this potential liability into account.
eg http://bicklebrewer.com/index.php?id=3D486&tt_news=3D433

Steve W



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 12 Apr 2008 at 17:11, Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > If the Thunder Sky is in fact a good source of a good
> > battery (determined by your responses to this email) ...
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mark Grasser wrote:
> > As I read it the Thunder Sky batteries are Lithium Ion batteries but I will
> > do more reading into the product to be sure I am safe.
> > Mark
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David,
Yes, I have read some of but not all of the disappointment some people here
have had with Thunder Sky. It is very hard to deal with the Chinese in
business as their way is not at all like our way. Once they have your money
they don't care much about you or your needs. First thing I need to know is
if the product is any good. If it is then dealing with fallout by having my
middle man do testing before export from China will do a lot to get good
batteries to the EV group (and into my bike). That and him being Chinese he
will get a lot more respect than any of us.

All I can do is try.

Waiting for more response.
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:23 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder Sky batteries



> On 12 Apr 2008 at 17:11, Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > If the Thunder Sky is in fact a good source of a good
> > battery (determined by your responses to this email) ...
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why put all your eggs in one basket? You could buy from a number of
providers (besides ThunderSky) and only maintain relationships with
the companies that have good product and will stand behind them. The
China side will only ship out product that you can build a reputation
on..

DAC



> Mark Grasser <[email protected]> wrote:
> > David,
> > Yes, I have read some of but not all of the disappointment some people here
> > have had with Thunder Sky. It is very hard to deal with the Chinese in
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Mark

Heres my two cents on this.
I want Thundersky batteries. I have even modified my motorcycle frame 
to fit the 90 Ah cells. For now I have whatever lead I can find. 
Heres the problem. I will not buy from the Chinese for the fact that 
the warranty is not worth the paper it is written on (for the low volume buyer) 
and low quality control has been demonstrated.
American importers exist but will only warranty based on having a BMS 
they do not sell. Their may also be importers who are more helpful that I am 
not aware of. 
What it will take to get me to jump is an American or European importer 
with a warranty and a specification for a BMS. The warranty doesn't have to 
be long, just long enough to make me believe that I got good cells. Maybe 180 
days or 90 cycles. I can still kill them if the BMS spec only covers the 
charging cycle and not undervolt but this would take longer than cooking them. 
The short warranty will protect the distributer. I don't mind taking that 
risk. 
Also if your business is also checking them for capacity, matching sets 
would be possible making BM easier to do. 
Rick Miller



In a message dated 4/12/2008 4:16:26 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[email protected] writes:
So here's my plan. Just so happens that I have a business acquaintance in
Shenzhen, near the Thunder Sky factory, they themselves being manufacturers
of electronic products. If the Thunder Sky is in fact a good source of a
good battery (determined by your responses to this email) I will arrange for
my acquaintance to become my agent, thus purchasing the batteries, having
then delivered to their facility, testing each battery to our specification
(I am thinking automated equipment doing the testing which will include
discharge with test, charge with test, discharge with test, charge with test
and then final short test before shipping, again to be determined). In this
manner rejects could be immediately returned for good batteries to complete
the quantity ordered before shipping.

With all of this in place I could become an importer I suppose but initially
I will need to purchase a large number of batteries to peak their interests.

So I am looking for some response from you guys.

1. Is the Thunder Sky battery worth the undertaking?
2. Is their interest in joining in a buy undertaken this way?

I have started the dialog to make this happen with my acquaintances and am
confident that I will at least get a set for me, more batteries would
obviously mean a better price. 

What do you guys think about this.

TIA,

Mark Grasser




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is indeed a problem.

----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Stephen West" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder Sky batteries

> With all of this in place I could become an importer

The Lithium Iron Phosphate cathodes used by ThunderSky are supposedly
covered by a University of Texas patent, licensed exclusively to
Hydro-Qu=E9bec and spun off as Phostech Lithium www.phostechlithium.com
As an importer you would have to take this potential liability into account.
eg http://bicklebrewer.com/index.php?id=3D486&tt_news=3D433

Steve W



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dmitri said:

> The Lithium Iron Phosphate cathodes used by ThunderSky are supposedly
> covered by a University of Texas patent,

I understood covered to mean legally and honky dory. Are we saying it is
NOT covered by the patent. i.e. Infrindgeing, or conflicting?

I like the fact that they recieve iso 9001 except it is a small image
from an obscure institute.

They actully have this line in their disclamer "...Thunder Sky does not
offer warranty against patent infringement..."


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>From what I have read on the Thunder Sky web site and the Thunder Sky buying
group in the UK the infringement is real but limited to the LFP
(Lithium/Iron) batteries. The UK buying group is buying the LCP and LMP
batteries which are not an infringement. Further at this point they do not
have a warranty and are buying knowing that as the price is about 1/3 of
what is otherwise available. It looks like there is a warranty available in
China to the Chinese. This is where testing before export would be
advantageous. 

I am going to work on this more during the week. Some have responded that
they want a warranty, some have responded that if I tested before export
that would be good. Problem with the testing is it costs money although
won't be much if I supply the automated tester. Next problem for me would be
the calculation to cost of providing a warranty. For me to provide a
warranty for product would be costly to the end buyer, after all, that is
how a warranty works, kind of like an insurance policy, if not exactly like
a warranty policy. 

After I get some costs figured out I will certainly get back to the list.

Another thing, First shipment will take some time. From delivery through
test and then sea shipment will take about 10 weeks. 

Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder Sky batteries

Dmitri said:

> The Lithium Iron Phosphate cathodes used by ThunderSky are supposedly
> covered by a University of Texas patent,

I understood covered to mean legally and honky dory. Are we saying it is
NOT covered by the patent. i.e. Infrindgeing, or conflicting?

I like the fact that they recieve iso 9001 except it is a small image
from an obscure institute.

They actully have this line in their disclamer "...Thunder Sky does not
offer warranty against patent infringement..."


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Steve said:
> 
>> The Lithium Iron Phosphate cathodes used by ThunderSky are supposedly
>> covered by a University of Texas patent,
> 
> I understood covered to mean legally and honky dory. Are we saying it is
> NOT covered by the patent. i.e. Infrindgeing, or conflicting?

The usual sense of 'covered', as in 'falls within the scope of', hence
'infringes'.

Steve


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