# Westfalia T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

This sounds like an interesting project, and could work well. I don't have any advice, and with no questions or problems presented yet there's nothing to help with... but I have questions:

Will the Bolt drive unit (motor plus transaxle) will fit into the T3's structure and under the floor? The motor is concentric with the axle, but the reduction gear housing sticks up substantially.

Where is the battery going? In the stock box it is long and wide and wouldn't fit anywhere except in the interior as a huge box of cargo. Are the modules to be re-arranged to be stacked behind the axle in the engine area?

This is, I believe, an image of the bottom of a VW T3 (with the van's rear to the left in the image):
http://www.westfalia.gomez-perales.com/Images/jackpoints.jpg


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

My only question at the moment is to know if there is a better place than DiyEcar to start a build thread or if this one is still relevant.

About the Bolt motor, my understanding at the moment is that the reduction gear housing don't sticks up, but the protrusion is facing the front of the car.

https://www.motortrend.ca/en/news/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-drivetrain-first-look-review/


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> My only question at the moment is to know if there is a better place than DiyEcar to start a build thread or if this one is still relevant.


I don't know where else would be more suitable for a DIY EV conversion build thread than DIYElectricCar, and I won't see it if it goes elsewhere (which of course doesn't matter to anyone else).

The forum's future was looking pretty shaky, but seems to be stable for now and I assume that anyone writing a build thread would keep a copy of everything themselves, so they could re-post elsewhere if necessary.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> About the Bolt motor, my understanding at the moment is that the reduction gear housing don't sticks up, but the protrusion is facing the front of the car.
> 
> https://www.motortrend.ca/en/news/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-drivetrain-first-look-review/


Interesting. I've seen quite a few images of the Bolt motor and transaxle, but not in the vehicle; it is usually displayed with the reduction gear housing upward, but apparently that's not the operating position. That video is a really nice presentation. 

Having the housing protruding forward will help with floor clearance, although that might not have been an issue in the T3 anyway.

The video shows an "electronic precision shift system", which is hilarious, given that the transaxle doesn't shift. Like other typical modern EV transaxles, is a single-ratio design, so the system is just the switch lever and the electrically-engaged parking pawl.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Few pics from the Bolt.
By a lot of chance, no major component was destructed by the accident. Even the fluid heater in the passenger corner wasn't touch despite there is a lot of sheared steel sheet in this area.
Globally, the windshield, the dash and the passager pillar are destruct, but all the others parts are fine.

But, despite I replaced the lost MSD with a temporary solution and I cleared many DTC, the car still don't move at the moment.
By chance, I'm able to see that the battery cells are in good shape at 3.8V.

Next step is trying to find why this car don't move.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

I love seeing these projects

Are you planning one of these

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/hybrid-hot-rod-2-0-pria-ghia-36697.html

Types of projects where the Bolt still thinks it’s a Bolt but with a Westfalia body or are you starting from scratch just tugging out parts and bolting them in?


The guy above can do body swaps to Prii skateboards in a few months normally which if I ever do it it will be how I approach the issue.


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## Monzsta (Nov 21, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Few pics from the Bolt.
> By a lot of chance, no major component was destructed by the accident. Even the fluid heater in the passenger corner wasn't touch despite there is a lot of sheared steel sheet in this area.
> Globally, the windshield, the dash and the passager pillar are destruct, but all the others parts are fine.
> 
> ...


You'll have to re-flash the controller to erase the permanent codes set by the airbag control module. 

Cheapest way is to order a GM VCX Nano, around $120-130 and a subscription to AcDelco Tis. You get a 2 year subscription to one vin for $45 bucks.

Or find a shop that can come out and reflash it for you.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rmay635703 said:


> Are you planning one of these
> 
> https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/hybrid-hot-rod-2-0-pria-ghia-36697.html.


That's a 180-post thread, and no indication in the first or last pages whether the thing actually got built or not. It's not worth it for each of us to spend an hour to read the whole thing to find out. Do you have a link to a specific post (or page) showing the result?



rmay635703 said:


> The guy above can do body swaps to Prii skateboards in a few months normally which if I ever do it it will be how I approach the issue.


The Prius doesn't have a "skateboard" structure, and neither does any Tesla; it's unfortunate the Tesla people incorrectly used this term. Cutting away the roof of a Prius leaves a lot more than a skateboard and yet destroys the structure, so the "rebody" project must replace the structure.


The driver and front passenger sit over the front wheels in a T3 (and earlier VW vans); it seems unlikely that the Bolt's packaging of components would work for the T3, even if one were willing to get a front-wheel-drive van out the project.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Few pics from the Bolt...


In the last photo a jackstand is holding up the car by supporting the middle of the control arm. I strongly advise not to do that; the arm is not designed to take vertical load at all, and particularly not there. Even if you're not going to use the control arm, it's just not sound. I would directly support the vehicle structure somewhere; at the control arm pivot mounts would likely be fine. 

I assume that the plan is to use just the drive unit (motor and transaxle) - at the rear of course - in a custom subframe with the original VW suspension... so none of the Bolt suspension parts will be used. Perhaps they can be sold to recover some of the cost of the project, if they are not damaged. On the other hand, there may be no market for them yet (since the car is so new).


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

rmay635703 said:


> Types of projects where the Bolt still thinks it’s a Bolt but with a Westfalia body.


Kind of. I plan to do a Westfalia who think it is a Bolt 
Plan to transfers all components needed to allow this computer on 4 wheels (the Bolt) to work properly inside a West body.




Monzsta said:


> You'll have to re-flash the controller to erase the permanent codes set by the airbag control module.


I have the VCX nano and I erase many DTC and reset few event, but it seem impossible to reset properly some event.
I'm not able to reset the crach event and I'm not able to communicate with the airbag module to apply the procedure to clear secured high voltage DTCS.
I bet I probably need a new airbag module to allow the car to move despite no airbag and no belt pretensioner have been activate.
Complex new car...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> I assume that the plan is to use just the drive unit (motor and transaxle) - at the rear of course - in a custom subframe with the original VW suspension... so none of the Bolt suspension parts will be used. Perhaps they can be sold to recover some of the cost of the project, if they are not damaged. On the other hand, there may be no market for them yet (since the car is so new).


Right, right and probably right.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

brian_ said:


> That's a 180-post thread, and no indication in the first or last pages whether the thing actually got built or not. It's not worth it for each of us to spend an hour to read the whole thing to find out. Do you have a link to a specific post (or page) showing


https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-...228-5d084ff6-ad33-4e75-8b92-ab4541ccb7be.jpeg

He is in the final stages of fit up, once bodies are matched up limousine style he will weld and structurally finish it off then start replacing doors, trim and interior 
The end result will be stronger and safer than the original Ghia with the front crumple zone and drivers airbag intact.
What Ghia do you know of that has traction control and an airbag?
Here is an older video of the tub driving around
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJwypgZQWS0

The beauty of his method is that the vehicle runs and drives throughout the process, his last Prius build into a 1940’s pickup took a couple of months.
He has been using that pickup as his daily driver and brings it to car shows for the humor and possibly inspiration.
This one will be done in a similar period of time and he has inspired a Prius Mustang build by someone with totally different motivations that too only took a few months to finish.

Getting polluting antiques with rusted out floorboards couple into rolled Prii breathing new life into both is something I hope to see expand.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rmay635703 said:


> https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-...228-5d084ff6-ad33-4e75-8b92-ab4541ccb7be.jpeg


Thanks 



rmay635703 said:


> He is in the final stages of fit up, once bodies are matched up limousine style he will weld and structurally finish it off then start replacing doors, trim and interior


I think that's very far from the final stage of anything, but I suppose the front and rear clips are in place. As it is, the windshield won't work (even a custom windshield couldn't have a reasonable shape without substantially modifying the frame shape) and the doors will be far too short.

Assuming that the Type 14 Karmann Ghia has the same wheelbase as a Type 1, it's 2,400 mm (94.5 in). That's significantly shorter than even the shortest Prius (the first generation), at 2,550 mm (100.4 in). This is why there is an awkward gap in what has been cobbled together. Although front wheel drive is really unfortunate for an old VW (and would be bad for the T3), and arguably even worse for a classic pickup truck, a truck has an advantage in being easily stretched or shrunk in the cargo box area. Any vehicle combination also has a problem in matching the front axle to driver's position dimension.

A T3-on-Bolt would be even worse, due to the wheelbase mismatch (2,600 mm and 102.4" for the Bolt, and only 2,461 mm or 96.9" for the T3) and and a mechanically more challenging mismatch in driver's position. Fortunately, that's not the plan for this project.



rmay635703 said:


> The end result will be stronger and safer than the original Ghia with the front crumple zone and drivers airbag intact.
> What Ghia do you know of that has traction control and an airbag?
> Here is an older video of the tub driving around
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJwypgZQWS0


I wouldn't leave a live airbag in anything that far from the vehicle for which the airbag was designed.
Driving around is very different from being structurally sound, but I realize that this is an unfinished stage and just demonstrates that everything functional come from the Prius.

Traction control would be good, and could be had without using any of the powertrain donor's body structure... although I don't know if anyone has done it.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rmay635703 said:


> Getting polluting antiques with rusted out floorboards couple into rolled Prii breathing new life into both is something I hope to see expand.


Prius hybrid or Bolt EV, I agree that this can be a good thing.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Yabert said:


> I have the VCX nano and I erase many DTC and reset few event, but it seem impossible to reset properly some event.
> I'm not able to reset the crach event and I'm not able to communicate with the airbag module to apply the procedure to clear secured high voltage DTCS.
> I bet I probably need a new airbag module to allow the car to move despite no airbag and no belt pretensioner have been activate.
> Complex new car...


Is anybody know if I absolutely need to change my airbag module to communicate with him.
Seem like I absolutely need to communicate with him to be able to drive the car and it's seem than when something detect a crash event it destroy this module. Or at least make communication impossible.
A new module is expensive and I would like to have inputs before paying.
Thanks


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## Linukas (Feb 22, 2011)

I had couple conversions with nissan leaf powertrain and all it electronics, as I remember that I even do not connected airbag module, main thing was to erase/eliminate all high voltage and powertrain errors.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

I know nothing about airbags but I do know the drivetrain will fit and you will need to cut the half shafts and put extensions on them just as I have done with my Leaf VW. I like this project.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I know that there is a shunt resistor about 1/8 watt probably 1K ohm across the airbag activator that gets destroyed when the airbags go off.

What do the autobody people do to reset the computers? I have heard that if the airbags deploy the car gets insurance totaled.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> I have heard that if the airbags deploy the car gets insurance totaled.


Vehicles are declared a total loss when repair costs exceed the value (after salvage recovery) of the vehicle. When airbags deploy there is usually quite a bit of damage (including the expensive airbags and their installation), so it's not surprising that those vehicles are often declared a total loss... but it's not simply a rule that airbags deployed means totalled.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I'll be watching progress with interest Yabert. Bolt is a great donor, such a shame we don't have any over here in the UK.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

> Vehicles are declared a total loss when repair costs exceed the value


Actually, by law, some places it's more aggressive than that.

For example, "2/3" is often the rule. $3000 car has $2000 of damage or more, it's done. It will be given a salvage brand and then you have to rebuild it with a pretty serious and detailed inspection afterwards.

On anything more than 5 years old, a shopping cart scraping along 3 panels of paint can write the vehicle off.

There is also "unrecoverable" brands that are common, which is usually frame damage (can never be repaired). I think there's also a moderately common brand for, no parts from this vehicle can be used to repair another one, which is when it's especially compromised.

Airbags might also result in a unrecoverable or salvage brand by default in some jurisdictions, not just be a component of damage dollars.

They often don't want to give the contact info away, but there's usually a guy who works for the government that signs off on all that, (if for example, a vehicle was branded in error, or, the insurance adjuster filed the paperwork before it was agreed to be settled [happened to me], it's the guy they'll call to undo that). If you can get a hold of him and say something like "Hey, yeah it got written off for damage, but, it's just paint, it's structurally sound", they'll, very rarely, reverse the decision to brand a car. But you usually have to have proof and they have to talk to the insurance agent or whoever inspected the car. Usually there are inadequate notes (it's not the adjustor's job to help you prove this, nor the mechanics, nor was it at the time), or that person is gone or doesn't remember or whatnot. He's not the guy looking at the car, he's the industry guy doing the clerkwork, and in my case it was a person with significant clout, almost like you'd be careful how you act around a judge, even though the job is fairly mundane.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Actually, by law, some places it's more aggressive than that.
> 
> For example, "2/3" is often the rule. $3000 car has $2000 of damage or more, it's done.


Perhaps, but a $3000 car which has $2000 of damage is a total loss anyway, because there is salvage value in the damaged car, and administering the repair (including a rental car in many cases), so the net cost to the insurance company would likely exceed the replacement value of the vehicle.

At the other extreme, pop an airbag on a Ferrari and see if they just write it off and toss the car in the scrap pile... not likely.

A 2/3rds value rule sounds like just an insurance guideline (rather than a law), and whatever rules some state might have about titles, an airbag deployment event seems very unlikely to cause a vehicle's control system to commit computer suicide and be unrecoverable. There will be a reset procedure, and that's what Yabert is looking for.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

brian_ said:


> A 2/3rds value rule sounds like just an insurance guideline (rather than a law)


Hmmm. So I went hunting for a regulation. Can't find any. Was told (few years ago) by my insurance company it was a provincial regulation, industry standard just about everywhere, and that all insurance companies have to follow it.

... and for some reason I believed them, despite them lying about just about everything else and prematurely reporting my car as salvage so that it would be illegal for me to drive before I'd even agreed to their lowball settlement offer (later got 300% the max they insisted), as a way to pressure me into accepting it (their client at fault).

Government doesn't exist on weekends but I think I'll call around on Monday and see if I can find out for sure.

Good to be skeptical.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Weather is particularly cold this year here in november and I have to move fast to put all the powertrain/battery parts inside (move by hands).
The snow is approx one month in advance so dismantle the Bolt is a pain...

Anyway, I finally been able to drive the car after I cleared some high voltage DTC (No new airbag module needed). I also tested the charge.
So, I remove radiator, charger, junction box, DC-DC, drive and motor from the Bolt.

Next step, the 950 lbs battery


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice work!

were you able to pull CAN-logs? for example to re-use a complete battery?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

boekel said:


> were you able to pull CAN-logs? for example to re-use a complete battery?


No. Sadly, control and programmation stuff isn't my strength.
My plan is really to integrate everything the complete Bolt powertrain need to be happy in his new Vanagon body.
At the moment, I identified: 

*Needed* - the front wheel sensors, the abs module, motor module, battery module (2x), chassis control module, air bag module.
*Not needed* - the power steering, the airbags, crash sensors, windshield mirror, doors sensors and many lights and presence sensors.

Some others tests will let me know if I can remove or bypass more stuff.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> *Not needed* - the power steering...


I can see that the Bolt's power steering might not be needed to keep the Bolt drivetrain bits working, but what's the plan for steering boost?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> I can see that the Bolt's power steering might not be needed to keep the Bolt drivetrain bits working, but what's the plan for steering boost?


 manual steering rack to keep arm in good shape and strength  http://www.busdepot.com/251419061
1979 Westy after all...
At the moment I'm not 100% sure to don't reuse the Bolt power steering, but it's the plan at the moment.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

More news. 
I removed the battery from the Bolt. It's really easy with some good tools despite I'm working in the snow. 
Yes, I forgor to remove the MSD first...
I had to dismantle the entire battery to be able to move by hand all the part inside (no garage sadly).
In less than 4 hours all the modules and the battery box was inside. Thanks to the video 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Battery Disassembly from Weber auto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssU2mjiNi_Q
Each of the 5 modules weight around 150 lbs and the battery box around 200 lbs. Not too bad when you move it with 4 hands.
At the moment I have to say that this Chevy Bolt is well build and easy to work with.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Finally, I rebuild the Bolt battery inside.
With all the modules and cooling plate in hand it seem I could probably rework the fifth module and move it by 90° in the middle of the pack (pic-1-2).
This rework can allow me to don't cut some part of the Westfalia Frame.
Anyway, I have to choose between cut the Westfalia frame and don't touch the battery or cut the battery cover and build new support for the fifth module. Of course this second option imply re-routing of the coolant circuit and some wires and busbars.

I still have to remove some wire harness and module inside the Bolt and I will have everything I need to run the motor inside.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Is there some mechanical engineers who can help me / confirm me that a shrink fit coupling assembly will work for my situation.
The situation is I have to fix a 26mm Chevy Bolt cardan shaft to the 28mm Westy cardan shaft. Both shaft are steel (unknow type) 
I plan to rework an A513 1-1/2'' x 1/4'' wall DOM tube to link both cardan shaft together by press fit and add a Tig weld at each end after (hope picture help to understand).

Based on tribology online calculator, in my situation, the interference fit itself can pass over 3000 Nm of torque. The Bolt have a torque of 266 lbs-ft at motor shaft and a gear ratio of 7:1 for 1862 lbs-ft at cardan shaft or 2527 Nm.
http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/e6_2.htm

So, advices?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Yabert
Looks good to me

Here (NZ) the certifier would require you to have the resultant shaft balanced


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Is there some mechanical engineers who can help me / confirm me that a shrink fit coupling assembly will work for my situation.
> The situation is I have to fix a 26mm Chevy Bolt cardan shaft to the 28mm Westy cardan shaft. Both shaft are steel (unknow type)
> I plan to rework an A513 1-1/2'' x 1/4'' wall DOM tube to link both cardan shaft together by press fit and add a Tig weld at each end after (hope picture help to understand).
> 
> ...



That is essentially what I am doing. I bought some DOM tubing to extend the shaft from the Leaf and mate it to the T4 (Eurovan). I needed to extend by about 300mm and I bored the DOM .001 over the shaft size. I will tig weld the accessable end and bore through the DOM so I can weld it to the shaft closer to the end as well. My exact distance will be determined by the loading of the suspension. You will need to use a cutoff disc to cut the shaft as any blade will go dull quickly.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Hi Yabert
> Looks good to me


Ok, thanks.
But do you have some formulas or calculations (more than an online calculator) to be sure out of doubt that this interference fit will be perfect for my situation?
It's not on a 10 000 km road trip with the familly that it's time to constat that my calcul wasn't right 

I can imagine myself stopping at the GM dealer to ask Chevy Bolt parts for my Vanagon , but not for modified parts.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

The only things I would add: DOM doesnt have a tight callout for straightness, so inspect your piece.

On your collar: if you drill at least two holes through coupling and weld down to the inner tube the joint becomes as strong as the inner tube. Required procedure on aircraft tube structures


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> That is essentially what I am doing.


If I understand correctly, you are talking about a loose fit (0.001'') and all the torque will be transmit by the weld.

In my case, the press fit (0.001'') itself should transmit over 2000 lbs-ft of torque.
The weld is there for redundancy... or to induce undesirable stress concentration  (not sure about this one)


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> The only things I would add: DOM doesnt have a tight callout for straightness, so inspect your piece.


If I recall correctly, cold drawn seamless mechanical tubing would be more likely to be true than drawn over mandrel... and it is actually seamless. This presumably won't be inexpensive, but you don't need much.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Yabert
I would design it to take the torque loading by friction - as in your calculator
And then add in the welding as an additional safety factor

Couple of other points
Pressing the two together is not as "safe" a process as doing a heat shrink - I would be looking at pressing them together with the outer tube as hot as you can get it

After welding you should get the welds crack tested 

I like Piotrsko's method - this should ensure that you don't initiate some form of failure from the weld

If you feel paranoid how difficult would it be to take the shaft off after a good long testing period and have it crack tested again?

I would not be at all worried about the shrink fit failing after a period of time - the two welded ends would worry me more as there could be a crack slowly growing - which is why I like Piotrsko's method


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

piotrsko said:


> On your collar: if you drill at least two holes through coupling and weld down to the inner tube the joint becomes as strong as the inner tube. Required procedure on aircraft tube structures



I believe that is what I am doing as well. Same job, different wording, lol


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

brian_ said:


> If I recall correctly, cold drawn seamless mechanical tubing would be more likely to be true than drawn over mandrel... and it is actually seamless. This presumably won't be inexpensive, but you don't need much.



If you are talking about cold rolled tubing used for heating and gas piping, I use it every day and would trust DOM more, even if the tubing was sched 80. I don't think the wall thicknesses work for the shaft diameter anyway (assuming the Bolt is similar to the T4 or Leaf shafts)


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

piotrsko said:


> On your collar: if you drill at least two holes through coupling and weld down to the inner tube the joint becomes as strong as the inner tube. Required procedure on aircraft tube structures


Do you have some visual support or link to show me exactly what you are talking about.
A quick internet search don't allow me to fully understand.
thanks


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

http://www.flight-mechanic.com/repair-of-steel-tubing-aircraft-structure-by-welding

I have a stupid browser. Hope this works


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok, it's what I had in mind. They seem to call this Rosette Welding.
But it appear that I have bad experimentation with this type of weld when they are used for torque transmission in a shaft.
On the aircraft structure this kind of weld is used in tension / compression in addition to others welds between tubes. It's not the same case on a driveshaft.

As you can see below, the first shaft on my Smart was rework using rosette type welding and it fail after few thousand kilometers. 
After I reworked the shaft with a complete weld around the tubes and it's what move my Smart today after many thousand of kilometers (3e pic).

Each assembly was press fit tubes and only the weld type was different. Of course, the coupling inside or outside the tubes have played an important role too in this case.



Duncan said:


> Couple of other points
> Pressing the two together is not as "safe" a process as doing a heat shrink - I would be looking at pressing them together with the outer tube as hot as you can get it


Thanks for the tip. I understand the fact and I plan to heat the coupling to obtain a slide fit when heated and an interference fit when shaft and the coupling are at the same temperature.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> As you can see below, the first shaft on my Smart was rework using rosette type welding and it fail after few thousand kilometers.
> After I reworked the shaft with a complete weld around the tubes and it's what move my Smart today after many thousand of kilometers (3e pic).


Is it the same tubing? The rosette-welded tube appears to have been very brittle and cracked through the holes for the rosette welds. I suppose avoiding the rosette weld holes avoids that problem, but I'm sure either the material or the heat treatment is wrong if this failure occurs.

Welding in a ring around a shaft or tube can be a problem, leading to the shaft shearing off at the weld; this is one reason that tubing is fishmouthed or diagonally cut in the article linked above.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

There might be some nice information / pictures in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDILvW5yMg


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Haha! Nice coincidence. 
I'm exactly at this step to fix the charger/inverter/junction box/dc-dc over the motor and reconnect the cables.
Thanks


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

It's a bit the mess in the room at the moment. It's mainly caused by the huge wiring harness.
I have to find a large and tall support to fix it to the wall.
I have to use it almost completely to maintain all the desired fonction of the Bolt in the West.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

new video!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APhRPSdmdmk


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Small update
The stack comprised of the motor, controller, charger, dc-dc is now in place.
I have to reconnect few wires minus the seats and the airbags and find a stable place for the airbag module.
This one could take action if it think that the car crach (module drop to the ground) or if it think that the car is in an important angle.

Also, I have dismantle the cardan shafts.
After have cut it, I will to be able to do the press fit with the other half Vanagon cardan shaft.


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## Jpl (Dec 17, 2018)

Do you sell the remaining Volt parts ?


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Hi Yabert: you're amazing- just so that you know that if you didn't already!

Consider me "subscribed".

What are you planning to do for insurance? My understanding is that Quebec is just about as bad as Ontario for insuring converted cars- and here, if I were to re-build my E-Fire, my only option is the Facility Association- $4,100 per year, which is too much for me to consider right now even though I'd only pay it 6 months of the year. 

Best of luck with the project- personally I would find it too frustrating to deal with all that software. You're Doctor Frankenstein, trying to make a brain happy in a new body!


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Moltenmetal said:


> What are you planning to do for insurance? My understanding is that Quebec is just about as bad as Ontario for insuring converted cars- and here, if I were to re-build my E-Fire, my only option is the Facility Association- $4,100 per year, which is too much for me to consider right now even though I'd only pay it 6 months of the year.
> 
> Best of luck with the project- personally I would find it too frustrating to deal with all that software. You're Doctor Frankenstein, trying to make a brain happy in a new body!



What was your insurance cost before the accident?


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

$1100/yr which I paid 6 months of the year. About the same as I pay for my principal driving vehicle, except that principal driver coverage includes both comprehensive (fire/theft etc.) plus collision whereas my previous insurance was just for liability.

That policy was offered to me by accident and then enforced by their ombudsman as a result of their error. Of course that's only a 1 time thing.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Moltenmetal said:


> $1100/yr which I paid 6 months of the year. About the same as I pay for my principal driving vehicle, except that principal driver coverage includes both comprehensive (fire/theft etc.) plus collision whereas my previous insurance was just for liability.
> 
> That policy was offered to me by accident and then enforced by their ombudsman as a result of their error. Of course that's only a 1 time thing.



Hmmmm, makes me wonder whether I should even tell the insurance company. None of the safety stuff is compromised so I don't know why they should be so strict. Facility is usually for those with a lot of accidents or the very young.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CanadaLT28 said:


> Hmmmm, makes me wonder whether I should even tell the insurance company. None of the safety stuff is compromised so I don't know why they should be so strict.


It's one thing to avoid providing unnecessary information, but another thing entirely to falsely answer questions such as "is the vehicle modified". It would be bad if you got insurance, but later found that the coverage was not valid when you needed it.

It doesn't matter whether or not a technically competent person considers the vehicle's safety to be uncompromised; if you don't follow the terms of the insurance service, you risk not having insurance.


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## jonescg (Nov 3, 2010)

Yabert said:


> Finally, I rebuild the Bolt battery inside.
> With all the modules and cooling plate in hand it seem I could probably rework the fifth module and move it by 90° in the middle of the pack (pic-1-2).
> This rework can allow me to don't cut some part of the Westfalia Frame.
> Anyway, I have to choose between cut the Westfalia frame and don't touch the battery or cut the battery cover and build new support for the fifth module. Of course this second option imply re-routing of the coolant circuit and some wires and busbars.
> ...


Hey Yabert,
I was wondering if you have some insight into the way the battery is cooled - I know from John Kelly's videos that there's a thermal pad between the cold plate and the battery modules, but I was wondering if the modules consisted of inter-leaved aluminium plates between each cell or group of cells. I find battery thermal management quite the challenge, so it's good to see how the market leaders are working it.
Cheers,
Chris


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

jonescg said:


> I was wondering if the modules consisted of inter-leaved aluminium plates between each cell or group of cells. I find battery thermal management quite the challenge...


My understanding is that each 3 cells group is stack between two aluminum plates. Those ones are in contact with the cooling plate in the bottom.
So over 6 cells face, there is only two cells faces in contact with aluminum.
IMHO the Bolt battery cooling method is not ''high performance''. It's there to slowly regulate the temperature, but not to allow high discharge or charge rate.

Not the same thing with the chevy Volt cells. As you probably know each cell have at least one face in contact with a cooling plate.


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

Bolt heart and brain inside a classic body?
if this works this could be pretty big, and translate to a lot of other cars


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

joekitch said:


> Bolt heart and brain inside a classic body?
> if this works this could be pretty big...


This will work and it's pretty big 
Everybody who consider a conversion today should consider grab the parts on an OEM electric car.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Things are going forward. I've start the design of the integration of the Bolt booster brake and master cylinder in the Vanagon.
The Bolt cluster will sit just over the master cylinder.

The most challenging part will be to find another brake fluid reservoir or modified the original Bolt reservoir.
It need to fit under the cluster and don't touch it (in blue on the picture).
Do someone have advice to weld / fix a Chevy Bolt plastic reservoir to ''any other'' plastic reservoir?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> The most challenging part will be to find another brake fluid reservoir or modified the original Bolt reservoir.
> It need to fit under the cluster and don't touch it (in blue on the picture).
> Do someone have advice to weld / fix a Chevy Bolt plastic reservoir to ''any other'' plastic reservoir?


Rather than modifying the Bolt reservoir, can you find or assemble tube fittings which will insert and seal into the master cylinder ports, for hoses leading to a remote reservoir or as adapters to a custom reservoir? Remote reservoirs are often used in race cars, but their master cylinders typically have different styles of reservoir port so their hardware probably won't work directly.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> Rather than modifying the Bolt reservoir, can you find or assemble tube fittings which will insert and seal into the master cylinder ports, for hoses leading to a remote reservoir or as adapters to a custom reservoir?


Yes, remote tank. I'm open to suggestions for tank and hoses.

Big question here:
Is someone know the load rating of the chevy Bolt front hub?
There seem to be double row angular contact ball bearing. 
I would like to replace the rear bearing housing (part 7) and put a disc brake on the Vanagon. The Vanagon rear bearings are one 35x75 ball bearing and one 35x62 roller bearing. My bet is the roller bearing can take a lot of weight and replace it by the double row angular contact ball bearing from the Bolt hub couldn't be enough for a Vanagon Westfalia...

Any tought?


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Yes, remote tank. I'm open to suggestions for tank and hoses.
> 
> Big question here:
> Is someone know the load rating of the chevy Bolt front hub?
> ...



I have changed front bearings on my T3s (Vanagons) many times but never had to change the rears. I am told to use VW A4 calipers and passat rotors. Plenty strong enough


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> I have changed front bearings on my T3s (Vanagons) many times but never had to change the rears. I am told to use VW A4 calipers and passat rotors. Plenty strong enough


Yes, I planned something similar, Audi/Vw disc with the chevy Bolt caliper on the rear. Everything mount on the original T3 rear hub.
But it would be easier for me to simply integrate the Bolt front hub, the rear Bolt disc and the rear Bolt caliper on the rear of the Vanagon.

But is the bearings are strong enough? That the question.

Thanks for the info about the front bearing


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Yes, I planned something similar, Audi/Vw disc with the chevy Bolt caliper on the rear. Everything mount on the original T3 rear hub.
> But it would be easier for me to simply integrate the Bolt front hub, the rear Bolt disc and the rear Bolt caliper on the rear of the Vanagon.
> 
> But is the bearings are strong enough? That the question.
> ...



Ohh, I think the bearings are quite good.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Is someone know the load rating of the chevy Bolt front hub?


The Bolt uses the latest version of GM's Gamma platform, with earlier versions used by the Chevrolet Spark, Sonic, Trax, and others. Unfortunately, the Bolt is among the heaviest of the vehicles on the platform, so the components may not have much more capacity than required by the Bolt.

The most conservative estimate would simply be to assume that the hub capacity corresponds to the gross axle weight rating for the front axle of the vehicle. That's shown on the placard on the driver's door edge or frame, and is likely between 1022 kg / 2253 lb and 1013 kg / 2234 depending on year and possibly trim level. They are very unlikely to have changed the hubs, so the higher values probably apply to all Bolt hubs and hub carriers... the springs might vary.

The Trax apparently has front GAWR which can be a bit higher: in a quick search (of for-sale ads which include an image of the loading placard) I'm seeing 1065 kg / 2348 lb. It seems very unlikely that the Trax has a different hub or bearings, so the Trax numbers could be assumed.



Yabert said:


> I would like to replace the rear bearing housing (part 7) and put a disc brake on the Vanagon. The Vanagon rear bearings are one 35x75 ball bearing and one 35x62 roller bearing. My bet is the roller bearing can take a lot of weight and replace it by the double row angular contact ball bearing from the Bolt hub couldn't be enough for a Vanagon Westfalia...


I agree that the VWs rear GAWR will be higher than that of the Bolt. One source (Roadhaus) reports for 1984-1991:

2WD Vanagon or Camper: GAWR Rear 2866 lbs
4WD Syncro Vanagon or Camper GAWR Rear 3042 lbs
The same source has a table of Vehicle Actual Loaded Weight for various years and variants, and all rear GAWR are substantially higher than the Bolt front GAWR.

With any luck, the Bolt components have lots of capacity margin. If you find the same bearings used in another model with a higher GAWR, that would be a good indication.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

I have seen the T3 loaded up to way over the recommended rates and used for off road and with over sized wheels too. Seldom has the rear bearings come up as a source of frustration. More likely it would be the front bearing. CV joints are a different thing, but they always are.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CanadaLT28 said:


> I have seen the T3 loaded up to way over the recommended rates and used for off road and with over sized wheels too. Seldom has the rear bearings come up as a source of frustration.


Which is why using the front Bolt bearings instead of those proven T3 rear bearings could be a concern...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Brian for the GAWR trick. When I'm looking on web with the hub part number, it seem to be use on the Bolt (GAWR 1023 kg) and the Volt (GAWR 1094 kg).
Seem like the Vanagon have a GAWR for the rear of 1300 kg. At least 200 kg short. Maybe 100 kg per wheel isn't that much...

I plan to take another route to verified the load capacity of the Bolt front bearings compare to the Vanagon rear bearings.
I will sacrifice a hub to measure the ball bearing to evaluate the load rating by comparing with a regular ball bearing with similar dimensions.
My problem at the moment is I don't find the load rating of the 35x62 cylindrical roller bearing of the Vanagon.

The results soon.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok, as the load capacity of a car isn't directly liked to the bearings in the wheels, let compare the Vanagon rear bearings and and the Bolt front bearings.

*Vanagon*: one regular 35x72 ball bearing 6207 (dynamic load rating 2755 kg) and one cylindrical roller bearing 30x62 NU206ECP (dynamic loard rating 4489 kg) for a total load rating of *7244 kg*.
*Bolt*: Seem to be a double row angular contact ball bearing similare to 3308 bearing (40x90) for a total load rating of *6530 kg*

Well, based on the bearings alone I will lost around 10% of load capacity. This is similar to the 16% lost in capacity when GAWR are compared.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Yabert said:


> Things are going forward. I've start the design of the integration of the Bolt booster brake and master cylinder in the Vanagon.
> The Bolt cluster will sit just over the master cylinder.
> 
> The most challenging part will be to find another brake fluid reservoir or modified the original Bolt reservoir.
> ...


Something like these Wilwood pieces might work: https://pitstopusa.com/i-23931013-wilwood-compact-remote-master-cylinder-inlet-adapter.html

If not, you may have to machine some hose adapters to mimic the fitting on the base of the stock reservoir(s) to connect to a remote reservoir like this https://www.amazon.com/17-2878-BRAKE-RESERVOIR-PLASTIC-67-up/dp/B004C3DV5C

A neat trick is to mount the reservoir somewhere in the line of sight, as your driving, behind a viewing slot in an access cover to keep an eye on the fluid level . Maybe include a small light to view it at night. Another option is to find an OEM remote reservoir that has a float switch that lights a warning light, when the fluid is too low.

Or, use something like this aftermarket unit: https://www.europaspares.com/2-chamber-brake-reservoir-with-fluid-level-switch.html


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks for the links Electro wrks.
By looking at your links, I found this reservoir used on old BMW 2002.
Seem exactly what I need. I will probably ''machine some hose adapters to mimic the fitting'' as you said.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I initially planned to put the charge port on the rear side of the van by cutting a hole in the rear fender. This position in an advantage when you drive a car 1/3 of the years on dirty, snowy road in winter. A charge port in the front (Kia, Leaf) or in the rear is clearly not the best choise weather wise.
But, as you can see in picture, when I consider th easy integration of the charge port on the rear of the van, I change my mind. Worst case, it will be a temporairy position for it.

Also, I started to design how I will integrate the Bolt rear caliper on the Vanagon. Those caliper have electric park brake.
I have to remove the original brake drum, add some Volkswagen Golf/ Audi A3 disc (272mm), design a caliper support and fix this one to the van rear suspension arm.
By adding disc and caliper the original 14'' wheels will no longer fit. I have to shop for 15'' or 16'' wheels.

More to come!


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

An important step in the Westy life, I removed the 40 years old air cooled engine and the transmission.
Now, everything is fully accessible to take measures and integrate all the Bolt bits.
First thing confirmed: there is a lot of space in the rear to integrate motor/inverter, charger, dc-dc and 12V battery/fuses.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> An important step in the Westy life, I removed the 40 years old air cooled engine and the transmission.
> Now, everything is fully accessible to take measures and integrate all the Bolt bits.
> First thing confirmed: there is a lot of space in the rear to integrate motor/inverter, charger, dc-dc and 12V battery/fuses.



What shape is the VW engine in? You can easily sell it if it is good.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> You can easily sell it if it is good.


Yes, I was really pleased to see the transmission and the old, crappy, dirty fuel burner disappear 24h after I remove them. 
Of course I had put them to sell few weeks ago.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I started to play with the Bolt electric caliper and the E-Golf rear disc.
I has to rework the Vanagon hubs to fit the disc and as the caliper it's not bolt-on I planned a small bracket to link the van part to the Bolt part.
Also, as you can see the original 14'' wheels will be clearly too small to accommodate the news disc and caliper.


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## jfroux_1 (Mar 3, 2019)

Nice EV conversion! I wanted to do a Jeep EV conversion but I always wanted to have a Westfaila. I’m not sure where I can buy a damaged chevy bolt in Quebec and I don’t know how it works to legally put an EV conversion car on the road with the right insurance, but I’ll find out.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Here the chevy Bolt caliper and the E-Golf disc on the Vanagon.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Things are going forwards and I have now a rough 3D model of the Vanagon and the Bolt components (60 kWh battery, motor, power electronic).

I've ordered few laser cut parts to fix the wheel speed sensors (in black on pic) close to the transmission output shafts. I will have the choice to fix 4 sensor on one shaft or the two passager side sensors on one side and the two driver side sensors on the other. No sensor on front wheels.
I will also fix the chevy Bolt wheel bearing seals containing the 96 magnets for the ABS on a shaft collar I will fix on transmission output shaft.
With that, I will be able to use the chevy Bolt powertrain in the room to do some tests.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Things are going forwards and I have now a rough 3D model of the Vanagon and the Bolt components (60 kWh battery, motor, power electronic).


Excellent! 

With only electronics behind the drive unit, and the battery roughly centred in the wheelbase, the mass distribution of the electric powertrain will be much further forward than the original powertrain. That's good for avoiding overloading of the rear axle, but not so good for traction or front axle load. Do you have an idea yet of how the distribution will work out?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> I've ordered few laser cut parts to fix the wheel speed sensors (in black on pic) close to the transmission output shafts. I will have the choice to fix 4 sensor on one shaft or the two passager side sensors on one side and the two driver side sensors on the other. No sensor on front wheels.
> I will also fix the chevy Bolt wheel bearing seals containing the 96 magnets for the ABS on a shaft collar I will fix on transmission output shaft.


I assume that the "magnets for the ABS" are for the "wheel speed sensors", and while these sensors are normally at the front hubs (in a Bolt), you are placing them at the inboard end of the shafts, and of course at the rear. Presumably they are needed for the Bolt's ABS / taction control / stability control logic, but ABS won't actually be implemented. Since the logic is still active, if both sets of sensors are installed on the same side, wouldn't there be a possible issue with control if one wheel spins, or even in tight turns, since they are supposed to be providing the two separate wheel speeds?

The logic knows what the average of the two driven wheel speeds should be (because that average is directly proportional to the motor speed), so when one output shaft goes faster than the other the average with the sensors all on the same side will conflict with the motor speed. Maybe the Bot logic ignores that...

It's interesting that the Bolt system will apparently run happily with no speed input from the other two wheels, but needs the driven wheel speeds.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

You are all right Brian.
And it's why I plan to put sensors in pair at each side of the transmission output.
I think that 4 sensors on the same output will work, but will cause problem in an even of wheel spin because at the moment, without sensor, this happen: Turn key on, shifter on drive, shafts spin and spin faster with pressing accelerator, at a moment the system detect the problem and reduce the available power, press the brake pedal and I can restart to spin the shafts.



brian_ said:


> It's interesting that the Bolt system will apparently run happily with no speed input from the other two wheels, but needs the driven wheel speeds.


My bet is that is design to run the car on a dyno / test the car without driving around.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> It's interesting that the Bolt system will apparently run happily with no speed input from the other two wheels, but needs the driven wheel speeds.


I did some test yesterday and I have to rectify a fact. With only the two font wheels speed sensors, the car start to reduce power at 40 km/h.
I added the 4 wheel speed sensors on the same output (pic) and I can accelerate without problem.
I also confirm than with the sensors in this configuration, blocking one output shaft (different output rpm between shaft) caused serious problem to the system. The motor try to spin faster.
The mix of ''spin faster'', try to regen without load, try a new acceleration isn't a confortable situation with a motor not solidly fix to a car frame 

So, more tests to come with two speed sensors on each output shaft.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

brian_ said:


> It's interesting that the Bolt system will apparently run happily with no speed input from the other two wheels, but needs the driven wheel speeds.





Yabert said:


> And it's why I plan to put sensors in pair at each side of the transmission output.


It looks like I misunderstood an important detail, as the plan from the beginning was to put two sensors - which I now understand to be for the Bolt's front and rear wheels - on each side. Still, it ran on just the front wheel sensors...



Yabert said:


> My bet is that is design to run the car on a dyno / test the car without driving around.





Yabert said:


> With only the two font wheels speed sensors, the car start to reduce power at 40 km/h.
> I added the 4 wheel speed sensors on the same output (pic) and I can accelerate without problem.


The dyno test at the end of the production line is one scenario, but I suspect that in general the wrong speed (due to missing the sensors) for the non-driven axle is acceptable at low speeds (but only at low speed) for all of the vehicle dynamics management systems: traction control, ABS, and stability control.

With the sensors for front and rear axles linked together, the car will never appear to spin its tires or lock up the brakes on one axle, keeping much of the dynamic control happy. The relative wheel speeds won't be quite right in a turn (the outside axles will go faster as they should, but the fronts won't go faster than the rears as they should) but with any luck it won't be enough of an error to trigger a response. It should be possible to turn traction control and ABS off, anyway... although that usually requires pushing a switch each time the car is started (since these features default to "on" each time).


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> It should be possible to turn traction control and ABS off, anyway...


I don't have the choice to disable or bypass the ABS/traction control system.
Considering it will not have the proper information from the wheel speed sensors, the system will probably send me in the ditch in an event of wheels spin on ice/snow or in the case of wheel lock after applying brake.

Anyone have idea?
Removing the ABS fuse simply don't allowing the car to shift in drive mode.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Yabert

I would not worry too much about traction control or ABS - the basic logic is that it will react if the wheel acceleration/deceleration rate is too high 
And the change in wheel acceleration rate when you lose grip is huge!

With the bigger car the vehicle acceleration/deceleration will be lower - so the transition to slip will be even greater

I bet it will work just fine as it is


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> I don't have the choice to disable or bypass the ABS/traction control system.
> Considering it will not have the proper information from the wheel speed sensors, the system will probably send me in the ditch in an event of wheels spin on ice/snow or in the case of wheel lock after applying brake.
> 
> Anyone have idea?
> Removing the ABS fuse simply don't allowing the car to shift in drive mode.


I don't think it will be a problem. The "front" and "rear" speeds should never disagree with conditions enough to cause a problematic response. Specifically for wheelspin, there won't be any front-to-rear difference detected, and if wheelspin is detected (as Duncan suggested) by rate of change, all that will trigger is power reduction or braking of the spinning wheel... but power reduction is what you would want anyway, and the Leaf bits won't have control of the van's braking.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> and the Leaf BOLT bits won't have control of the van's braking.


Well, here is exactly the point.
If I connect the 4 wheels brake to the Bolt ABS unit, the Bolt bits will have control of the van's braking.
They will have control with the bad information (front wheel in the rear and vise versa).
The other solution is to bypass mechanically the ABS unit by routing the brake hoses out of the unit and simply put plugs on the ABS unit.

Hope that help everyone to understand my questioning.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Well, here is exactly the point.
> If I connect the 4 wheels brake to the Bolt ABS unit, the Bolt bits will have control of the van's braking.
> They will have control with the bad information (front wheel in the rear and vise versa).


Ah... I didn't realize (or had forgotten) that you were planning to go that far. I would be concerned about using an ABS unit with a vehicle that is so different from the vehicle for which it is designed. I'm referring to the fundamental mechanics: the front/rear reversal, plus mass, wheelbase, centre of mass height, mass distribution, brake caliper piston sizes., etc. The basic ABS functionality of releasing the brake for tire which locks up should work (although the hydraulics won't be right), but any brake force distribution or stability control features would be wrong.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Yabert
I would try it

The ABS unit will operate to try and keep each tyre in the "sweet spot" - just slipping a wee bit and it will do this by starting to lock up (deceleration increases massively) and then relaxing a bit 

I don't think that it will care about the car at all

Stability control will do the same except compare right to left

The only time it could be bad would be if it got confused or crossed over right to left


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: VW Vanagon T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain*

Yabert

I agree with Duncan but only on 1 condition: he didn't mention that it should be with sensors on the front. Why don't you want to put the sensors on the front (sorry if I haven't seen it).

Otherwise with 2 sensors on each rear wheel (left front & rear, etc) the abs will not activate under braking unless only 1 rear tyre skids and then it will release braking pressure to BOTH wheels on that same side (both left or both right wheels) which isn't good on loose surfaces. And if a rear wheel spins when accelerating the traction control will 'panic' and assume 1 side of the vehicle is skidding so might cause an actual spin by releasing braking and increasing braking accordingly to different wheels to stabilise a stable car.

Either use all the sensors on all the wheels or bypass the abs unit but keep it connected. I'd plumb a small reservoir to lubricate the solenoids too or it could burn out. AND, you must match the driven wheels to the driven sensors, or front sensors on rear wheels and rear on front as the ECU will expect wheel spin from driven wheels and only limit power accordingly.

Hope that makes sense. My vote is keep the abs and use all sensors on opposite front to rear wheels.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks guys for your inputs. I don't put each sensor on each wheel because the small part with 96 magnets in it is really dificulte to integrate. 
Conclusion to come in few weeks.

I've cut the Vanagon floor last weekend and tried to fit the battery cover.
This is promising, but seriously it's not designed to fit there. For those who can plan to convert a Vanagon, maybe consider use a battery from a car with a smaller wheelbase / smaller battery because the fit is really too tight. Or maybe think about rearrange the battery module. 
I had to cut some structural beams in the van and I will redesign and weld new beams, but it's a complex job.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Here is the ring with the 96 magnets for the wheel speed sensors.
I welded it to stainless steel plates and fix it to a shaft collar.
I think I've done an error because the galvanic corrosion between the zinc plated steel and the stainless steel is important.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Here is the ring with the 96 magnets for the wheel speed sensors.
> I welded it to stainless steel plates and fix it to a shaft collar.
> I think I've done an error because the galvanic corrosion between the zinc plated steel and the stainless steel is important.


I don't think it's as bad as you fear.
My suggestion (I did corrosion design on commercial aircraft for years):
1. Prime the exposed large stainless surfaces. Those large exposed areas are a major driving force for galvanic corrosion in sacrificial metals like zinc or steel.
2. Get some penetrating corrosion inhibiting compound and spray it in the interface between the two parts. Dinitrol/Ardox AV8, AV15 or AV25, Zip-Chem Corban 23 or Corban 35, etc.

It'll be fine.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Here is the ring with the 96 magnets for the wheel speed sensors.
> I welded it to stainless steel plates and fix it to a shaft collar.
> I think I've done an error because the galvanic corrosion between the zinc plated steel and the stainless steel is important.



Yabert, you need to hurry up. BusFusion is happening in a couple months and I'm sure you want to show the EV to the other 250 VW busses there, LOL


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> Yabert, you need to hurry up. BusFusion is happening in a couple months and I'm sure you want to show the EV to the other 250 VW busses there, LOL


First time I hear of Busfusion, but it seem interesting. Not too far from here.
Sadly, I will not show this 60 kWh / 200 hp van at the event.
June will be buzzy as I will have my first kid. Hopefully the van will work by may end


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> First time I hear of Busfusion, but it seem interesting. Not too far from here.
> Sadly, I will not show this 60 kWh / 200 hp van at the event.
> June will be buzzy as I will have my first kid. Hopefully the van will work by may end



Put it in your calendar for next year. I hope my EV-LT Doka will be ready by then too


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## Reid_in_QC (Sep 5, 2017)

I forgot to check in for a while Yan but I'm thrilled to see all the progress. I think that the hole you cut in the vanagon floor looks great - no need to worry! Hope you're having fun and that you're making progress quickly enough for everyone concerned .

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I see you found a willing lathe closer to home (or maybe work) but if there's anything I can do I'm ready to do favours for the born and unborn EV enthusiasts in your family 

~ reid


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Reid_in_QC said:


> if there's anything I can do I'm ready to do favours for the born and unborn EV enthusiasts in your family


For sure, thanks.
Here is the last version of the 3D model for the electric Vanagon.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

And now the real stuff. 
The battery supports fit well on the battery and under the van.
Also those are the front motor supports. The TIG welder is working very well.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

This post at the page 4 about the shrink fit cv join shaft was wrong: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027191&postcount=32
The press fit dimensions wasn't good, the stress on the sleeve was to high and the friction coefficient was not fully understand.
Anyway, I redid the calculs and with a friction coefficient between 0.10 and 0.20 a shrink fit assembly would give me a torque transmission capability of around 500-1000 Nm. 
As the Bolt max torque per cv shaft is around 1250 Nm I had to search another solution.
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Tribology/co_of_frict.htm
http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/e3_8.htm

Weld was out of question because for such a low diameter shaft any weld will affect the steel and cause the shaft to be weak. 

Conclusion, I ordered two custom shaft EMPI 15 5/8" AXLES 33 SPLINE. 15.625'' is too long as I need 14.375'' long shafts, but I will cut it and rebuild the c-clip groove as the spline are long enought.
After all, I need to cut 5/8'' each side of the shaft. It's not much.

Of course a 14.375'' Vanagon cv joint shaft is not ready to fit to the Bolt transmission, so I have to rework the Bolt output shaft to fit the Vanagon cv joint.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Of course a 14.375'' Vanagon cv joint shaft is not ready to fit to the Bolt transmission, so I have to rework the Bolt output shaft to fit the Vanagon cv joint.


... or buy shafts (presumably custom-made) which are splined for the Vanagon outer CVs on one end and the Bolt inner tripod joints on the other end. Is that a possibility?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> ... or buy shafts (presumably custom-made) which are splined for the Vanagon outer CVs on one end and the Bolt inner tripod joints on the other end.


This is of course the ideal solution.
But I don't know were to ask a quote and I bet the price will be massive.

At the moment, I pay 220$ for two shafts and 10$ for two adapters.
Yes, I have some rework and weld to do, but this seem a cheap alternative to have the perfect cv shafts.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> This is of course the ideal solution.
> But I don't know were to ask a quote and I bet the price will be massive.


Likely. A lot of people get a lot of shafts made with splined ends, so someone might do them at a tolerable cost. But there's no way to know without asking.



Yabert said:


> At the moment, I pay 220$ for two shafts and 10$ for two adapters.
> Yes, I have some rework and weld to do, but this seem a cheap alternative to have the perfect cv shafts.


So what's the plan? Cut off the cups of the Bolt's inner stub shafts, turn them flat and true (if they were not cut off on a lathe), machine flanges with holes to match the VW CV joints, and weld the flanges to the stub shafts? I assume that the Bolt stub shaft cup bases are not large enough in diameter to match the VW flanges, leading to the need for an added flange; something needs to precisely centre those flanges (perhaps a dowel on the centreline?). If paying someone else for machining and welding, this isn't going to be cheap, either.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> So what's the plan?


You fully understand the plan.
By chance I have access to a lathe and a TIG, so the extra cost is my time.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> You fully understand the plan.
> By chance I have access to a lathe and a TIG, so the extra cost is my time.


Thanks  The machined locating step looks good.

Once you have worked this out and proven a set, you could have a side business in providing these to other builders. Anyone using a production EV drive unit and adapting to a suspension/axle that uses joints with flanged inner joints could use the same solution.


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## Reid_in_QC (Sep 5, 2017)

Yabert said:


> You fully understand the plan.
> By chance I have access to a lathe and a TIG, so the extra cost is my time.


That looks like a solid good plan to me.

If you need to machine relief for bolt heads into the Bolt stub axle portion (I think I see one in the CAD model), you'll need a dividing head or rotary table on a mill. I just spotted both at a friend's recently. His mill isn't set up yet but I'm sure he'd lend us the accessories if you don't find a better solution elsewhere.

~ reid


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Reid_in_QC said:


> If you need to machine relief for bolt heads into the Bolt stub axle portion (I think I see one in the CAD model), you'll need a dividing head or rotary table on a mill. I just spotted both at a friend's recently. His mill isn't set up yet but I'm sure he'd lend us the accessories if you don't find a better solution elsewhere.
> 
> ~ reid


The solution is in fact simpler.
I order laser cut Weldox steel parts with VW bolt pattern (few $$) and I will weld it to the machined Chevy Bolt transmission output shaft.
It's the same solution I used for my Smart 10 years ago and everything is fine today despite the max torque at CV joint is higher on the Smart (1600 Nm in first gear compare to 1250 Nm with the fix ratio of the Bolt)


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> The solution is in fact simpler.
> I order laser cut Weldox steel parts with VW bolt pattern (few $$) and I will weld it to the machined Chevy Bolt transmission output shaft.


I assume that Reid understands that, and is referring to the shallow notch on the far outside edge of the machined Bolt cup which is visible in the rendering.

I assumed that this feature is not intentional, but just the remainder of one of the axial grooves which are normally found in tripod joint cups (and are visible in the photo in posts #105 and #50), but it's a good point - the heads of the bolts (or the nuts on them) which hold the VW joint to the custom flange need to clear the material of the Bolt cup.



Yabert said:


> It's the same solution I used for my Smart 10 years ago and everything is fine today despite the max torque at CV joint is higher on the Smart (1600 Nm in first gear compare to 1250 Nm with the fix ratio of the Bolt)


I have no doubt that the welded joint can handle the torque. 

That welding, and especially with a joint which is not simply circular, does raise the issue of balance. Before welding all of the parts will be rotationally symmetric and balanced. If the weld filler material is not perfectly evenly distributed, the balance will be slightly off. I assume that the plan is to get the completed assemblies balanced... or is the imbalance expected to be too small for that to be an issue?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

In fact, the adapter is tapped with M8 holes. So, no nuts or heads bolt on this side.
It's why I use weldox steel instead of 44W. The yield strength is 700 Mpa instead of 300 Mpa, so the tapped holes will be stronger.

About the welding, I hope the imbalance will be too small for that to be an issue.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> In fact, the adapter is tapped with M8 holes. So, no nuts or heads bolt on this side.
> It's why I use weldox steel instead of 44W. The yield strength is 700 Mpa instead of 300 Mpa, so the tapped holes will be stronger.
> 
> About the welding, I hope the imbalance will be too small for that to be an issue.


All worked out, which is what I expected. 

The rendering didn't show the threads...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Here is the cv shafts. The slide fit of the splines on the female splines of the 1980 cv joint is simply perfect.
Also, you can see the 4x2'' reinforcement beams I added to the Vanagon floor. Really there are too strong/thick for this frame. I used 1/8'' steel (11Ga), but 14 Ga shoulded be enought and reduce the weight as the original VW frame is build from 2mm steel (0.08'').
Next step is to weld in place the battery supports on the frame and the reinforcment tubes (lifted by a jack on the picture).


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Here is the cv shafts. The slide fit of the splines on the female splines of the 1980 cv joint is simply perfect.
> Also, you can see the 4x2'' reinforcement beams I added to the Vanagon floor. Really there are too strong/thick for this frame. I used 1/8'' steel (11Ga), but 14 Ga shoulded be enought and reduce the weight as the original VW frame is build from 2mm steel (0.08'').
> Next step is to weld in place the battery supports on the frame and the reinforcment tubes (lifted by a jack on the picture).



Looks like we are going through the same process. I am making new rails of 11g CRS (200mm web) C channels to make room for the 4 Volt packs side by side. It's interesting to see your work. What is the outer dimensions of the Bolt pack?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> It's interesting to see your work. What is the outer dimensions of the Bolt pack?


Here are the rough dimensions of the Chevy Bolt 60 kWh battery.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Open question for all: What is the best OBD2 PIDs to have access to chevy Bolt details like min/max cell V, cells temps, charge power, electronic temps, and others?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I've putted the motor of the Bolt in place in the Vanagon prior to finish the welding of the rubber mount motor supports.
There is two front supports and one in the back of the motor.

Things are going to be exciting now as I've welded most of the supports for the battery / powertrain.
The plan is to assemble everything and have the first wheels spin in fews weeks.


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## bilbo (Oct 31, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Open question for all: What is the best OBD2 PIDs to have access to chevy Bolt details like min/max cell V, cells temps, charge power, electronic temps, and others?


This thread  contains contains a link to a google spreadsheet with all the PIDs you are probably interested in.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks bilbo!

Here is the link between the chevrolet Bolt spline of the gearbox and the 6 holes flange of the VW cv axles. 
So the link between VW and Chevy!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

brian_ said:


> rmay635703 said:
> 
> 
> > The guy above can do body swaps to Prii skateboards in a few months normally which if I ever do it it will be how I approach the issue.
> ...


The Model 3 looks like it uses something damned close to a skateboard. See 3:35 here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V06GmCR1fV4 

Though it's not obvious it wouldn't fold up due to the coilovers being unsupported if it wasn't on the factory carrier, you would support them in a graft onto a host vehicle. 

But, the likelihood of matching up wheelbase and track being almost zero, you have to question the bother unless you're building your own car body.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yabert said:


> Thanks bilbo!
> 
> Here is the link between the chevrolet Bolt spline of the gearbox and the 6 holes flange of the VW cv axles.
> So the link between VW and Chevy!



Nice!

I'm curious about how you jigged it in order to maintain concentricity?

Are you planning to balance those, or use them as-welded?


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

remy_martian said:


> The Model 3 looks like it uses something damned close to a skateboard. See 3:35 here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V06GmCR1fV4
> 
> Though it's not obvious it wouldn't fold up due to the coilovers being unsupported if it wasn't on the factory carrier, you would support them in a graft onto a host vehicle.
> 
> But, the likelihood of matching up wheelbase and track being almost zero, you have to question the bother unless you're building your own car body.



I just knew the "skateboard" people would glom onto this factory video. The so-called "skateboard " in the video is just the front suspension sub assembly, the battery/electronics box, and the rear suspension sub assembly sitting in a fixture ready to be bolted, individually, to the unibody car frame. There's no "board" tying these pieces together other than when they are attached the unibody of the car.


You could cut away most of the Tesla unibody and graft on the main part of another vehicle like the guy with the Prius pick-up. It looks like a lot of work with potentially dubious results. You would probably have to completely redesign the vehicle for strength and stiffness. Think of all of the gaps and seams(some in inaccessible places) that have to be addressed to make a practical vehicle.


With the modular Tesla pieces, It's much easier and more practical to just adapt them to an existing unibody or ladder car/frame. I don't think practicality is the main goal of the Prius pick-up guy.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"skateboard people"????


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> "skateboard people"????


I assume that he meant people who believe that any Tesla vehicle actually has something like a skateboard design (a flat structure on which a body is placed). One irritating aspect of this is that there have been "skateboard" vehicles built, at least as concepts and prototypes, but none were ever done by Tesla and none are in production (as far I as I know).


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> I'm curious about how you jigged it in order to maintain concentricity?


I hope Yabert corrects me if I am mistaken, but my understanding is that because the Bolt joint cup is turned down on a lathe while centred on the shaft, the remaining flange is concentric with the shaft. The adapter is machined to fit to the flange, so the adapter is also concentric. The outboard face of the flange is machined on the lathe so it is perpendicular to the shaft, and the adapter has a step machined in it so the flange face and adapter are parallel. No jig or fixture is required.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

remy_martian said:


> Nice!
> I'm curious about how you jigged it in order to maintain concentricity?


There is an alignment machined on the Bolt part and this is slide fit in the Vanagon part with 6 holes.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Things are gowing foward and I added the power electronic components in the original engine bay.
That was the easy part and, of course, I have now some wires and modules (a lot in fact) to manage and / or lengthen to allow proper positioning of different components (cluster, shifter, touch screen, brake/accel pedals).


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

The motor is at his place in the van and I hope to be able to preliminary spin the transmission output shafts this week end.
Preliminary because the shifter, brake pedal and other stuffs are still in the back of the van. Longer wires are not done.

I remark an error in my design and by chance it's not critical. The transmission output flange at the driver side is really close to the plastic part of the oil pump.
I plan to do a chamfer on the flange and the clearance should be just enought.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

The Vanagon moved by itself last week. It's was only few meters in the driveway with someone in front behind the steering wheel and another person in the back with the shifter/cluster/park brake, but it was really nice to move like this for the firts time.
Hope to do the first test drive around the block this week.
Still lot of wires/cables to extend and manage  and the brake system to finish.

In pics below, the electric brake booster, the regen potentiometer /brake signal and the custom cv shafts.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: VW Vanagon T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain*

Very nice work Yabert. Well done so far.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

> The Vanagon moved by itself last week.


Wooo!

Nothing quite like the "hello world" and nothing explodes.


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## Reid_in_QC (Sep 5, 2017)

Congratulations on moving under power!

Yes you still seem to have a fabulous mess of wiring and the dash is looking a little sparse (or absent) but those things can all be handled in due time.

The brake pedal assembly looks great. I recognize the pushrod pivot pin.

Great job on all 10 thousand details. Super inspiring!


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

The Vanabolt is there and it work like a charm.
After few hundread km of driving, this van is just awesome with over 300 km (190 miles) of range and the 200 hp allways ready under the right foot.
And what to say of the one pedal driving of the chevrolet Bolt system... this thing is simply awesome and work so well. We rarely touch the brake pedal as the acceleration and the regen is so well done by the acelerator pedal.

I use Torque pro to have access to some data during driving or charging and this is super usefull.
Still I'm not able to fast charge (50 kw). I plan to finalise the AC circuit/battery chiller and retry after.


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

so you went from two cars separated to a combined franken van in less than 8 months? that's pretty damn impressive.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Haha! Considering that on that 8 months, 4 was on cold Canadian winter and during 1 month I was in France... yes, I'm really proud of the accomplishment 
Yes, my Smart have grey panels now.


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

would you say it was particularly easy? just a matter of routing wires and fabricating mount points? If you had to do it all over again, what would you do different?


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Haha! Considering that on that 8 months, 4 was on cold Canadian winter and during 1 month I was in France... yes, I'm really proud of the accomplishment
> Yes, my Smart have grey panels now.



Well done, now you can book for next years BusFusion


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

joekitch said:


> would you say it was particularly easy? just a matter of routing wires and fabricating mount points? If you had to do it all over again, what would you do different?


Not easy because enter a Chevy Bolt in a Vanagon with a shorter wheelbase isn't easy.
But I think it could be quite ''easy'' to enter a complete drivetrain of a regular EV (Bolt, Kona, Leaf, etc) in a FWD van, a pickup or a SUV with decent wheelbase.
I say that because if you are able to repair and drive / move the donor EV from scrap yard after have clear some faults (dtc) the next step is 100% mechanical integration and extend some wires/cables.
After all, with a crash EV, you have all the powertrain / battery bits and all the harness.

A friend of mine prepare to put a Kia Soul EV powertrain inside a VW Eurovan. I expect to have more experiment in few months, but I think this could be easy to do.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Yabert said:


> A friend of mine prepare to put a Kia Soul EV powertrain inside a VW Eurovan. I expect to have more experiment in few months, but I think this could be easy to do.



What year is the Kia Soul?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Not easy because enter a Chevy Bolt in a Vanagon with a shorter wheelbase isn't easy.
> But I think it could be quite ''easy'' to enter a complete drivetrain of a regular EV (Bolt, Kona, Leaf, etc) in a FWD van, a pickup or a SUV with decent wheelbase.


Like essentially all current production EVs, these donors have drive units which place the motor (transversely) on are adjacent to the driven axle, so they can possibly go into other vehicles with the engine adjacent to the driven axle. That makes rear-engine vehicles and front-wheel-drive vehicles potentially reasonable targets, but not most pickup trucks. Anything with a driven beam axle at the rear would require a complete suspension replacement.

I think a compact pickup would be an interesting target for a whole-system swap, but it would really be a complete custom vehicle using an EV powertrain, pickup cab, and some other suspension... all on a custom frame.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

brian_ said:


> ... but not most pickup trucks. Anything with a driven beam axle at the rear would require a complete suspension replacement.


Personally, I think it's way easier to design and build a rear pickup truck suspension than a complete 360V battery pack with BMS and heating/cooling 
Also, there is Honda Rigeline with independent rear suspension and maybe some other pickups.

Anyway, the point is IMHO reuse an intact OEM battery pack help a lot to do an easy conversion.
Chop/weld steel sheet (car frame) is simpler than rebuild a reliable battery pack.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Yabert said:


> Personally, I think it's way easier to design and build a rear pickup truck suspension than a complete 360V battery pack with BMS and heating/cooling


Agreed, but it's not an either/or thing... it's just easier to use a vehicle that is compatible with the drive system.



Yabert said:


> Also, there is Honda Rigeline with independent rear suspension and maybe some other pickups.


Yes, the Ridgeline has IRS, as do some coupe utilities (but not what North Americans call "pickup trucks")... which is why I said "but not *most* pickup trucks".



Yabert said:


> Anyway, the point is IMHO reuse an intact OEM battery pack help a lot to do an easy conversion.
> Chop/weld steel sheet (car frame) is simpler than rebuild a reliable battery pack.


Again, a valid point (to some extent, as major structural bodywork is also no joke). And again, a pickup truck would generally need a custom frame, because nearly any modern EV pack (such as the Bolt) is too wide to fit between a pickup truck's frame rails, underneath is too low, and on top would require a really awkward body or box lift... which is why I said that I see a pickup as a "complete custom vehicle using an EV powertrain, pickup cab, and some other suspension... all on a custom frame".


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

So, a Chevy Bolt need a running A/C system to allow the CCS fast charge. The A/C system could be use to cool the battery temperature.
The DTC condition are: 
-A/C Compressor motor voltage sensor circuit low voltage (need to plug the compressor to the 360V batt)
-A/C refrigerant charge low (need to connect the pressure sensors and fill the system with R-1234YF refrigerant)
-Cooling fan relay 1 control circuit (connect the 12V fan)

Well, I don't have the place and the desire to integrate evaporator and condensor for this system and my question is:
Is there any reason that a system with condensor and evaporator bypass/replace by a simple aluminum blocks with holes (represent in blue on pic) couldn't work?
The expension valves for the battery shiller and the cab (not on pic) will be in the system.


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## jonescg (Nov 3, 2010)

I can't quite tell from that picture, but if I recall the Weber Auto YouTube videos correctly, the heat exchanger for the battery is supplied refrigerant from the A/C system after the cabin blower. If you plan on adding A/C to your vehicle you might as well use the cooling power to keep the battery happy.

Otherwise, just running coolant to a radiator out the front will no doubt help, but as you've noted - it won't take a fast charge without more powerful cooling.

I'm actually adding a heat exchanger for chilling the coolant in the battery of the Prelude I'm converting at the moment. I think the A/C system will be the last thing which gets installed, but it should make for a long lived battery.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

jonescg said:


> I can't quite tell from that picture, but if I recall the Weber Auto YouTube videos correctly, the heat exchanger for the battery is supplied refrigerant from the A/C system after the cabin blower. If you plan on adding A/C to your vehicle you might as well use the cooling power to keep the battery happy.


It's exactly how the Bolt system work, but the battery heat exchanger (in center of the pic) is before the cabin. The battery coolant is cool down by the A/C.

My question is more related to an A/C system without condenser and evaporator.

I drive the Van since 6 weeks now without battery coolant and the cells stay closely match (3-4°C difference) at temperature between 20°C-33°C despite it summer here.
If I had the choice, I would not install the A/C system, but the Bolt system claim it in the fast charge initialization. 
An heating system is way more important here with around 3/4 of year with temperature below 20°C (20°C to -30°C in fact).


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Does the Bolt operate the air conditioner as a heat pump, to provide heat with less power consumption than resistance heating? Adding A/C would be a lot of work and a packaging challenge, but it might have the benefit of better heating, as well as properly supporting fast charging.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

No heat pump on this Bolt. Simply a separate heater in the battery cooling loop.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Any input about my A/C challenge (post 144)?


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

So your goal is to hook up the AC compressor and the electronics, but not either of the radiators (evaporator and condensor), for the sole purpose of fooling the battery charger to turn on?

Presumably, the AC motor/compressor will actually be turning on and off still, and compressing refridgerant, and all that, it just won't go to any rads?

Stating the obvious: If you hooked the entire system up, it would presumably work fine. All you're changing is removing the E and C rads and replacing them with a loop.

And your question is, will that "swap a radiator for a loop" trick work?

...

I only have partial knowledge about this, but, my immediate concern would be that parts of the AC system are going to just about immediately break if they get a liquid when they were expecting a gas. You compress the gas into a liquid which makes it hot, then you cool that hot down to ambient, then you pump the ambient liquid to a second radiator and then let it expand back into a gas that is now cold. That cold gas is what the motor/compressor is expecting, not a liquid.

So, sometimes there's valves and stuff like that to make sure that won't happen, but, I have a hunch they're suitable for normalish circumstances, maybe they won't handle or operate correctly being given a hot liquid rather than a cold gas. Maybe not, maybe it's fine.

When you add your refridgerant, same as on any other AC system, you'll have to pull a vacuum for an hour to get rid of any moisture in the system, because moisture + refridgerant = hydrochloric acid I think. But that's a solveable problem.

I'd be more tempted to electronically fool the system than mechanically fool the system. If it's expecting a voltage, fake the voltage. If it's expecting a sensor, fake the result of the sensor. Should be doable with just some resistors.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Matt, you fully understand my problem and my questions about A/C system.


MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> I'd be more tempted to electronically fool the system than mechanically fool the system. If it's expecting a voltage, fake the voltage. If it's expecting a sensor, fake the result of the sensor. Should be doable with just some resistors.


Really, I would like to do that, but I don't know how to do that.
For me, mechanically fool the system is something I can do, but to electronically fool the system I would need help.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Should be 3 or so limit switches that have to be on, a high pressure switch that needs to be off, maybe 1 thermistor whatever controls the VCX valve. They sytem might also want to know status of the control relays. Should be an online A/C manual for it showing sensor placement and wiring diagram.

Low pressure prior to compressor, high pressure after compressor, etc.

Im not a A/C guy. All the experts here should know better than me, but I guess not.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I slowly start to think that is possible to electrically fool the system.
Below are the schematic of the system in pdf.

The pressure sensors have those values: 
5V - AC low ref : 11.5k
5V -Low pressure: 4.7k
AC low ref - Low pressure: 6.8k
I plan to put 0-10k potentiometers at the place of the pressure sensors and try to change the values.

About the compressor, I don't know how to fake the 360V input so my first idea is to connect the compressor to do a first test at the fast charge station.
If the compressor start I will simply stop the fast charge as my goal is to know if the fast charge work.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

YOUR pdf hints that the variable resistors should work, and you may want to see what the BIG orange gray /orange pair going into the A/C logic board actually do. Looks to me like there is some sort of control happening there that goes to the charger control module on the following page. You may also need to spoof the battery pack temp sensor in the coolant inlet unless the coolant temps go high or low from 20C



My knowledge is limited, BUT, I am fairly sure on the Volts, charging does not require ECM CANBUS monitoring. I know nothing about the Bolts, but knowing how Chevy operates as far as Tech training goes, both systems could be similar.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I tried a fast charge this weekend without success.
I put 10k potentiometers at the A/C pressure sensors place and connect the compressor/coolant pump/radiator fan to the system. 
This permitted to clear all the DTC of the hybride powertrain control module, but despite that the car don't allow the fast charge to start.

Any tough?


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Did the compressor start? Was it hooked up?

Hard to say.

Don't suppose you have functioning hardware that you could swap into place and see whether it works or not when connected properly. That would isolate whether the problem is the way that you faked it or whether the charger brains don't work.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Yes, the compressor was conneted. It don't started during the few first attemps of fast charge with the car turn off, but it started once with the car turn on (not sure if it start for car interior or for battery).
The result was the same in each situation: after 30 seconds of precharge (charger side) the car quit/refuse the session and everything stop.

Functioning hardware imply a fully functional A/C system with high pressure in the circuit.
The next step for me is maybe to try the idea of a partial, but pressurized A/C system (describe at post 144).
I don't have other idea...


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Just brainstorming...

Maybe the resistors you used are wrong, or reporting values outside the proper range.

Is the behavior different now (after electronic faking) than it was before? Or did this get you past where you were before, just not as far as you wanted to (i.e. the 30 seconds)? I'm trying to determine if you had zero success or partial success. Zero success to me means check for mistakes or additional things missing. Partial success means tweak what you're able to tweak and try again.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

It's probably partial success. 
Before the hybrid powertrain module 2 shown DTC linked to the pressure sensor and now report no DTC.
Still, I don't know what to do as I don't know why this Chevy Bolt is not happy at the fastcharge station.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I've tested the van on a small road trip 

Everything work well and this powertrain is awesome in the curvy mountain road.
150 kw and 58 kw of regen is 
Still no fast charge, so it's a long and ''slow'' roadtrip with bigger days of just over 400 km. But there is a lot (still not enough) of J1772 station at any place and many are free.
More than 10 000 km of done here reaching arizona and we will add 4500 km to go home.
Details here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=723737


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Your 300 km of range is just over the "I can roadtrip in this" range to me. At 200, 250... starts to be too tough.

Looks like an awesome trip. Great to see a DIY EV go on such a long trip


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

*Re: VW Vanagon T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain*

Great news Yabert! Congratulations. How long are you having to stop to charge?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: VW Vanagon T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain*



tylerwatts said:


> Great news Yabert! Congratulations. How long are you having to stop to charge?


A typical driving day was:
Full charge in the morning, drive 220 km, stop to charge 6h or 7h and drive another 200 km or so to the charge station for the night.
By chance we only did this 15-20 days during our two months trip.
The best days was: Full charge in the morning, drive 100 km, hike, drive 50, lunch, drive 50, hike, drive to the campground for a dinner and full the van overnight 

A working fast charge is a must... I will work on this.

15 500 km trip without problem with the van.


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

Frustrating how CCS level 3 charging for diy conversions is still not a solved problem, it's fine with chademo though, that's dead simple

feels like a requirement for any build with under 200 miles of range, in the usa at least, taking a conversion from weird oddity to very practical daily in all but the most unique circumstances


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

Sweet project!

It seems like the tricky bit is charging that fast without frying the batteries...It seems like these batteries don't get too hot unless you're drag racing back-to-backa ...or charging them quickly.

I expect some future project of mine to look like wagon, van, or truck just stuffed to the gills with batteries and fast-charge capable, so I'm curious to see where you end up.


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## KarmanVoltwagen (Jul 25, 2021)

Great Project. This is my goal for a Karman Ghia + Bolt. The underpan battery s very similar to a Bug or Ghia Underpan.
I will use the dimensions of your battery drawing to help me compare dimensioned line drawings of Ghia to the Bolt Battery. Congratulations on this accomplishment!
I feel like the Bolt platform is probably the best overall value/performance especially used or wrecked ones.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

KarmanVoltwagen said:


> This is my goal for a Karman Ghia + Bolt. The underpan battery s very similar to a Bug or Ghia Underpan.
> I will use the dimensions of your battery drawing to help me compare dimensioned line drawings of Ghia to the Bolt Battery.


Except that the Beetle platform is a thin panel, and the Bolt battery is a thick box (173 mm or 6.75" tall). Are you planning on having the bottom of the Bolt battery case slide on the ground, or are you planning to jack the Karmann Ghia up like a 4X4 truck to regain clearance?

Yabert's van had a much higher floor than a Karmann Ghia, and now it has reduced ground clearance. That works for the van, but wouldn't for the car, even without the huge hole and structural changes needed to accommodate the taller part of the pack.


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## KarmanVoltwagen (Jul 25, 2021)

brian_ said:


> Except that the Beetle platform is a thin panel, and the Bolt battery is a thick box (173 mm or 6.75" tall). Are you planning on having the bottom of the Bolt battery case slide on the ground, or are you planning to jack the Karmann Ghia up like a 4X4 truck to regain clearance?
> 
> Yabert's van had a much higher floor than a Karmann Ghia, and now it has reduced ground clearance. That works for the van, but wouldn't for the car, even without the huge hole and structural changes needed to accommodate the taller part of the pack.


All excellent points. 
Thickness is a problem. 
Maybe a compromise can be met.
Folks often put 2.5" drop spindles on Beetles/Ghias. Obviously wouldn't do that, but
Maybe there is enough clearance for a split the difference approach. A car does need ground clearance, but for street and hwy use, less is needed. A camper implies a modest amount of offroad use. 

The torque tube looks to be about as thick as the battery. So that is promising.

The back seat area can accommodate the tall portion of the battery box, another bonus.

The floor and battery pans are virtually the same dimensions in length and width. This is a big deal for many of the same reasons Yabert has said regarding keeping the battery sealed.

Raising the floor creates issues for tall folks. I am 6 ft tall. Shorter seats can help there. 

Not discounting your points, but, so far alot of positive indicators point toward potential for good integration. 😉


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## CyberBill (Jan 15, 2020)

Yabert - I have a question!

Back of March in 2019 you were fiddling with the wheel speed sensors, and had good luck with using all 4 on a single output shaft, but were going to experiment with 2 on each side:



> Thanks guys for your inputs. I don't put each sensor on each wheel because the small part with 96 magnets in it is really dificulte to integrate.
> Conclusion to come in few weeks.


I'm curious how your experimentation went? I'm doing an EV conversion using a 2019 Bolt as a donor, and I'm going to have to go down the same path as you did.


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## evcomposite (Jan 6, 2022)

Yabert said:


> *VW Vanagon T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain*
> 
> Hi
> 
> ...


may i talk to u about your conversion


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

That's what the forum is for. This isn't a place to look people up.

Offline discussions are nonproductive from the information giver's perspective.

You are also expected to give as well as receive. That could be as simple as a build log thread, or as involved as participating in discussions...in the open.


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## evcomposite (Jan 6, 2022)

Yabert said:


> For sure, thanks.
> Here is the last version of the 3D model for the electric Vanagon.


i am in Las Vegas i would like to talk to u about your great conversion. i am at [email protected] hope we can talk soon


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Talk here


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> Talk here


The bot is quoting random posts and attaching the invitation... I doubt that it can talk.  The first one almost looked legitimate because it stumbled onto a post in which Yabert was talking about leaving the forum, but the second makes no sense other than randomness.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Not a very inovative[sic] bot


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