# Battery box fabricators for BYD Blade Batteries



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

What are those round tabs on the edge ?


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

What are those round tabs on the edge ?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Are you expecting someone to make a box that shrinks the unusable 960mm dimension?


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## ginetto (Oct 28, 2020)

remy_martian said:


> Are you expecting someone to make a box that shrinks the unusable 960mm dimension?


why unusble?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Because almost nobody but an OEM has space under the cabin floor for batteries is why. I believe he was spamming, trying to sell these, but imo they're next to useless here.

Those guys in the video are going to starve with Leaf retrofits in NZ, imo.


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## jgp689 (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Because almost nobody but an OEM has space under the cabin floor for batteries is why. I believe he was spamming, trying to sell these, but imo they're next to useless here.
> 
> Those guys in the video are going to starve with Leaf retrofits in NZ, imo.


Spamming! wow...

No, I'm a real person trying to think through a different approach to solving the battery issue. ICE conversions will never become common (and maybe that is okay) as long as you have to count on a Tesla being totaled to scavenge the battery. So a reliable source of new batteries is needed. Also, from what I understand these Lithium iron phosphate batteries don't need thermal management? If that is so it would greatly simplify the battery pack. 

Also, the length of these cells are 38" x 4" x 1" (approx) so you could stack two levels 38" x "34 x 8" (or two packs at 38" x 34" x 4" located in front & back). Just spit balling ideas but it seems like these blade batteries are available in reliable quantities and as a bonus you don't have to worry about thermal management.

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying everything but just thinking out loud...

Thx


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Most engine bays will not accommodate a 40+ inch battery box dimension. A trunk will, but not two across. The Tesla modules are 10 inches shorter...so you can just get two across, or one longitudinally in the engine bay, two across for 26 inches. Most cars are also not 80 inches wide for two boxes of your 38's side by each *anywhere". People, by the way, use "Tesla" modules because they've drunk the Musk Koolaide and they appear easier to liquid cool.

Thermal management is always optional. Nissan Leaf didn't have it. Even lead-acid can use it to extend life, improve efficacy, and increase charge cycles.

Thermal management all depends how quickly you want to pee away $12,000 in battery modules and whether you can wait four days to charge them, and how much current you want to pull before smoking them. You'll notice in the New Zealanders' Nissan Leaf module replacement video, above, with these blades...they appear to be liquid cooled, but maybe not.

As far as getting spammy and a "reliable source", I submit nothing on AliExpress is *reliable* as a source and it's usually an order consolidator in an apartment flat in Shenzhen that you're dealing with, not the manufacturer that has crazy-high MOQs, who you'll find on Alibaba, not 'express.

If you want to go with that "availability" route, there are a gazillion sources for LG chem cells with the Mach-E and Bolt-EV dimensions on Ali-xxx that actually will fit in a conversion.

That, and you posting and running got you the spammer accusation...nothing radical or new and seemed totally blind to the applicability in car conversions that cannot have these cells under the floor for most car conversions or that don't have the sheet metal width to accommodate two across by the time you connect, isolate, and cool them...even in the trunk.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The cell source is questionable, but it's an interesting view of the specifications of these cells. I was wondering about the terminals - apparently they are prismatic cells with threaded posts for terminals, so it would be easy to interconnect them (with cell orientations alternating with each cell group, so interconnections alternate side-to-side across the pack). Structurally, it would interesting to know if they are intended to span the pack, supported only at the ends... and how much clamping force (if any) should be applied to the stack to keep them from twisting when used as a beam that way. Then there's the question of how thermal management should be provided.


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## jgp689 (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Most engine bays will not accommodate a 40+ inch battery box dimension. A trunk will, but not two across. The Tesla modules are 10 inches shorter...so you can just get two across, or one longitudinally in the engine bay, two across for 26 inches. Most cars are also not 80 inches wide for two boxes of your 38's side by each *anywhere". People, by the way, use "Tesla" modules because they've drunk the Musk Koolaide and they appear easier to liquid cool.
> 
> Thermal management is always optional. Nissan Leaf didn't have it. Even lead-acid can use it to extend life, improve efficacy, and increase charge cycles.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the information. This is actually why I posted. I had not seen anything on the "Blade Batteries" in conversions and I wondered why...Its good to know that others have already gone down this route...And that it was a dead end.

I'll Google the LG Chem cells for the Mach-E & Bolt. Good to know that there is plenty of new, available battery cells...I'm still leaning.


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## jgp689 (9 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> The cell source is questionable, but it's an interesting view of the specifications of these cells. I was wondering about the terminals - apparently they are prismatic cells with threaded posts for terminals, so it would be easy to interconnect them (with cell orientations alternating with each cell group, so interconnections alternate side-to-side across the pack). Structurally, it would interesting to know if they are intended to span the pack, supported only at the ends... and how much clamping force (if any) should be applied to the stack to keep them from twisting when used as a beam that way. Then there's the question of how thermal management should be provided.


If one is required to encase and thermally manage every individual "blade" (as it appears in the above video) I would say that these are definitely not suitable for a conversion. I envisioned a much tighter pack...


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

jgp689 said:


> If one is required to encase and thermally manage every individual "blade" (as it appears in the above video) I would say that these are definitely not suitable for a conversion. I envisioned a much tighter pack...


I have no idea why *blade* cells would need to be individually encased or individually thermally managed, and no one does that with any kind of cell, even pouch cells. With blades it's one box around the whole set, one heat transfer plate under the whole set (if active thermal management is used) - that's it.

Cells are conventionally grouped into modules, which are individually enclosed to varying extents and can even have individual cooling elements, but not when using blades. Blades are individual cells, from BYD or another another manufacturer copying the format, intended for use in a cell-to-pack assembly without an intermediate module stage of assembly.

I had not watched the video before commenting, as nothing about the title slide suggested that it would contain useful information, and the image doesn't even show blades. Watching the first few seconds confirmed that it is irrelevant: despite the use of the word "blade" in the name of their product, this has nothing to do with blades. Their ridiculous product web page only provides more videos - they appear to provide no written information, so the whole operation appears to be a joke. What they are planning to offer (it doesn't exist yet, except as that very pretty mock-up) is a set of 6S modules (six groups of cells in series within each module), intended to be used to build replacement packs for the Nissan Leaf... they're not blade cells.


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## jgp689 (9 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> I have no idea why *blade* cells would need to be individually encased or individually thermally managed, and no one does that with any kind of cell, even pouch cells. With blades it's one box around the whole set, one heat transfer plate under the whole set (if active thermal management is used) - that's it.
> 
> Cells are conventionally grouped into modules, which are individually enclosed to varying extents and can even have individual cooling elements, but not when using blades. Blades are individual cells, from BYD or another another manufacturer copying the format, intended for use in a cell-to-pack assembly without an intermediate module stage of assembly.
> 
> I had not watched the video before commenting, as nothing about the title slide suggested that it would contain useful information, and the image doesn't even show blades. Watching the first few seconds confirmed that it is irrelevant: despite the use of the word "blade" in the name of their product, this has nothing to do with blades. Their ridiculous product web page only provides more videos - they appear to provide no written information, so the whole operation appears to be a joke. What they are planning to offer (it doesn't exist yet, except as that very pretty mock-up) is a set of 6S modules (six groups of cells in series within each module), intended to be used to build replacement packs for the Nissan Leaf... they're not blade cells.


Good information. And this is how I would have envisioned Blade Cells to operate in a pack (grouped versus individual encasement). 

Have you seen or read about anyone other than OEMs like BYD utilizing the Blade form factor? Have there been any known conversions using the Blade?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

jgp689 said:


> Have you seen or read about anyone other than OEMs like BYD utilizing the Blade form factor? Have there been any known conversions using the Blade?


"Blade" is BYD's term. Other battery manufacturers are offering cell-to-pack (no module stage of packaging and assembly), but as far as I know the specific "blade" name was chosen by BYD to suit their long cells. 

I've never heard of anyone using this format for a conversion, but that doesn't mean much.


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

We are have ordered BYD blade cells for our Carry conversion, got them from Global Sources https://www.globalsources.com/LiFePO4-battery/Lifepo4-battery-1184018175p.htm which is considered very reliable as it has American management and is considered to be the best open sourcing site out of China the company that use Global Sources are checked out by 3 party inspectors, I would agree that Aliexpess and Alibaba can be very dangerous to buy from. As for the conversion the blade cells fit under the deck better than any thing else that we have looked at (we may have missed some other cell that my have worked better). The 96 v pack 30s 138amp is only going to be 400x1200x90mm with room for the BMS, we aren't having cooling as we have another carry conversion and the battery doesn't get over 32 degrees C and that is only a 72v 3.5 kwh pack Suzuki Jimny and Carry EV conversion


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

In my opinion the blade cells would work for utes and mini trucks and the like as you have room under the deck and you should be able to put a pack under the hood on a ute (voltage depending, any thing over 144v pack may not fit)


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

Just to clarify, the pack size under the hood probably couldn't be more than 1p, but at 144v with one pack under the deck and one in the front and down rating the capacity to 110amp per pack that's still about 31 kwh @ 144v 110amp x 2


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

trustpete2 said:


> We are have ordered BYD blade cells for our Carry conversion, got them from Global Sources Lifepo4 Battery BYD Blade Battery 3.2V 138Ah for /EV/marine/RV/Forklift, lithium battery blade battery lithium ion battery - Buy China Lifepo4 battery on Globalsources.com which is considered very reliable as it has American management and is considered to be the best open sourcing site out of China the company that use Global Sources are checked out by 3 party inspectors, I would agree that Aliexpess and Alibaba can be very dangerous to buy from. As for the conversion the blade cells fit under the deck better than any thing else that we have looked at (we may have missed some other cell that my have worked better). The 96 v pack 30s 138amp is only going to be 400x1200x90mm with room for the BMS, we aren't having cooling as we have another carry conversion and the battery doesn't get over 32 degrees C and that is only a 72v 3.5 kwh pack Suzuki Jimny and Carry EV conversion


It looks like these cells are designed in a form factor to simulate or replace a long parallel string of small cylindrical cells like 18650 and 21700s. You still may want to have some provision for cooling if these cells are bunched tightly in modules and the modules stacked together.

I wonder what form factor Tesla is using in its new optional LFP cells.


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## laxk (5 mo ago)

trustpete2 said:


> We are have ordered BYD blade cells for our Carry conversion, got them from Global Sources Buy Wholesale China Lifepo4 Battery Byd Blade Battery 3.2v 138ah For /ev/marine/rv/forklift & Lifepo4 Battery at USD 40 | Global Sources which is considered very reliable as it has American management and is considered to be the best open sourcing site out of China the company that use Global Sources are checked out by 3 party inspectors, I would agree that Aliexpess and Alibaba can be very dangerous to buy from. As for the conversion the blade cells fit under the deck better than any thing else that we have looked at (we may have missed some other cell that my have worked better). The 96 v pack 30s 138amp is only going to be 400x1200x90mm with room for the BMS, we aren't having cooling as we have another carry conversion and the battery doesn't get over 32 degrees C and that is only a 72v 3.5 kwh pack Suzuki Jimny and Carry EV conversion


Hi trustpete2, I'm interested to know how you got on with your BYD blades. Did they arrive from Glocal Sources without any issues? Have you got them installed and going? Thank you.


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

The cells arrived last week, selected one randomly and tested it twice took over 24hrs per test so I won't be testing all of them


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

I probable could of squeezed the 138ah out but I thought it would be safer to stop at 2.7v on the discharge, I went to 3.65 on the charge. As for freight apart from it taking a looong time and NZ having problems about freighting Lion batteries, all good. I did use a agent at my end to get them though customs


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What is this test setup you are using?


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

Its a EBC-A10H


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

electro wrks said:


> I wonder what form factor Tesla is using in its new optional LFP cells.


It looks like indeed this may be the cell that Tesla is using in some of its LFP packs: Tesla receiving BYD batteries for Giga Berlin's Model Y production


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## trustpete2 (10 mo ago)

The company I got the batteries from have another blade battery option now from Svolt it's 184ah size is 21.7 W* 575 L*118 H mm Buy Wholesale China Svolt 3.2v 184ah Blade Lifepo4 Battery For Solar/ev & Lifepo4 Battery at USD 65 | Global Sources . Also if you live in AU you can get them from SVOLT BLADE 184AH LFP » LIFEPO4 Australia SHOP . The Svolt batteries may be a better option for cars or if you are tight for room.


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