# [EVDL] Zivan NG3



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thank you all for you input thus far. I am really in over my head however
I am a pretty quick study once I get my mind around the basics.
I do not have all the information you request just yet in regard to my bat
type and model as I have not purchased them yet, however I am ultimately
trying to create a battery pack that will move my newly acquired ford
ranger 40 miles/ cycle (inner city driving). this may be a pipe dream, as
I said I am just cutting my teeth on this adventure.
I am leaning towards the 6v golf cart batt. and the limitations on the # of
batteries up to 24 will be the amount we can orientate to go into the frame
below the truck bed.
Thank you all for your input and future help.
Sean
Tulsa, OK




> Steve Clunn <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 21 May 2012 at 12:21, Steve Clunn wrote:
> 
> > I've seen these in a few NEV's as a group 24 that's about the same size
> > as a golf cart [battery] ... My guess they're 2 times the voltage and 1/2 the ah
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 21 May 2012 at 14:25, EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > In my records here a Trojan 24TMX (do they still make those?) is listed as
> > 47lb and 85ah (20h rate), 140min @ 25a, 36min @ 75a. At 25a, that's 58ah or
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Sean,
I have an (older) Ranger truck (1989 model)
that is powered by 20 x US-145 which is the
battery that holds 251 Ah (at 6V, 20h discharge)
dropping to 192Ah at 75A discharge.
http://evalbum.com/4259 


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Sean Stevens
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 10:47 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zivan NG3

Thank you all for you input thus far. I am really in over my head
however I am a pretty quick study once I get my mind around the basics.
I do not have all the information you request just yet in regard to my
bat type and model as I have not purchased them yet, however I am
ultimately trying to create a battery pack that will move my newly
acquired ford ranger 40 miles/ cycle (inner city driving). this may be
a pipe dream, as I said I am just cutting my teeth on this adventure.
I am leaning towards the 6v golf cart batt. and the limitations on the #
of batteries up to 24 will be the amount we can orientate to go into the
frame below the truck bed.
Thank you all for your input and future help.
Sean
Tulsa, OK


On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Steve Clunn <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

OK Sean, and thanks for replying as it does help us to help 
you.

This is not rocket science, and after you know the EV basics, 
you'll do a V8-ad head-slap going 'Why did I try to make this 
so hard?'

The biggest and primary thing to do is to not make a 
purchase until you have the answers that fit your needs. The 
more you tell us, the better picture we can have of what your 
EV needs are.

So, if I understand correctly, your initial inquiry was 
because you have already purchased a Ford Ranger conversion
EV, that currently has a 144VDC pack made up of AGM 
batteries, and likely has a range with new batteries of 
about 15+ miles on flat terrain.

Now you have told us that you are targeting a 40 mile range,
I will assume your wallet is as thin as most people and you 
are looking to do this on a budget, not with an inve$tment 
in a Li-ion pack.

Your Ranger is a perfect vehicle for a conversion EV. Now, to 
suit your 40 mile range needs, you need a pack that fits that
even when the pack is in its third year of use/or at the end
of its cycle life (PbSO4 - lead/acid batteries loose capacity
as they age).

I suggest a revised target of 45 miles, when driving on the 
highway at a constant 55mph. After you get off the highway you 
would have about 5+ more miles at sub-highway speed to find a 
charge (after that do not drive the EV, you will kill the 
pack). 

A 144VDC pack of T105s should give you a ~45 mile range at a 
constant 55mph. Later when money permits, having an emeter is 
a Gawd-send. Then you'll really know how many AmpHours in and 
out, thus how much range left you really have.

I suggest you consider designing the bed to able to tilt for
easy monthly battery maintenance, and the rack under the bed to 
be able to handle all sizes of 6V golf/traction batteries: 
T105, T125, T145. This will give great flexibility and improve
the EV's resale value.

Since you have a truck, you have the advantage of later bumping
up your pack to use T125 or equivalent batteries for a little 
more range and for more money. The slightly taller T145 6V 
batteries, for even more range, at a higher cost. But then you
are getting into lead-sled performance. 

Which is why I suggested you start with the less expensive T105 
type batteries. The performance and range should meet your needs
at a good price.

Do not buy your batteries ahead of time and then let them sit,
and sit. Only buy them in large quantities (not, onezy, twozies) 
so they are the fresh with the same date code and you'll get a
good quantity purchase price discount. I like to have them 
dropped off at my home, and they may take the dead cores back 
with them at the same time to give you another discount. Here 
are you battery sources local to you:

P&R Supply
http://www.sourceesb.com/DistributorDetails.asp?regid=0&sname=Manufacturer&type=W&search=Trojan+Battery&filter=None&titleid=37645&companyid=108717&distid=15100&pgnum=1&pgpos=3&action=DIST_NAME_CLICK

Interstate is not the best battery
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/DealerLocator/Default.aspx?ZipCode=74146&DT=201205212135442816

In a pinch you could get Napa to order you fresh 6V 105 min 
golf batteries
http://www.napaonline.com/

http://www.lookooh.com/B/Oklahoma/Batteries-Manufacturers.html

Is a shame that your nearest USBattery dealer is ~100mi away.
http://www.usbattery.com/usb_golf_p1.html
US2200 batteries are sold to golf courses, so the price is 
usually good on these.


According to the web site you stated, 
http://www.mmlumberco.com/
you are located in Tulsa, OK. I will assume that site is where 
you work 
http://g.co/maps/bjbaw

I will assume your NG3 runs off 240VAC, and you have arranged for
an outlet at home and at work to charge from (a 20A or better 
circuit). I see that there is no EVSE (public charging) anywhere 
near you
http://www.recargo.com/search?search=74146&commit=+++SEARCH+++ 
and the NG3 even with a J1772 adapter is likely not compatible 
for use with more EVSE (a NG3 has too low a power factor and has
current spikes). 

But as long as you have a regular 208 to 240VAC outlet of 20Amps
or higher, the NG3 should work fine if you adjust the finishing 
and float voltages according what the Trojan page I previously 
gave you states. Please invest in a fairly accurate digital volt
meter. I suggest you also have a 110VAC charging ability (like 
when over at a friends house, it can add miles to your pack,
but mainly it is healthier for the pack to have a charge on it.
There are several 144V driver can recommend, or you could search
using 144VDC 1.5KW charger

I will also assume this a commute vehicle and not a carry lumber
work vehicle. If it is the latter, then we will need to know those
work needs, and the details of the EV to know if you have the 
right system configuration.

According to
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2%29/.do
most of Tulsa is fairly flat, with hills to the east of your work 
that are about 300 ft. If you live up in those hills, you should
be OK with the horse power you have.

I will also assume your EV has a DC motor and thus no regenerative 
braking. This is OK since you do not have any serious hills to 
come down in with heavy loads.

To help show us what you have, I suggest you take advantage of 
the EValbum.com site. This is a free service to show others of
conversion
EV configurations. You do not need to be a web designer to make a 
page. Here are some trucks with a 144V pack:

http://www.evalbum.com/2924

http://evalbum.com/3739

http://www.evalbum.com/1860


I ask that others post their additions/corrections to the above.


{brucedp.150m.com}



-


> Sean Stevens wrote:
> > Thank you all for you input thus far. I am really in over my head
> > however
> > I am a pretty quick study once I get my mind around the basics.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Bruce,
I don't know you but you sure know me. You nailed it.
I put some photos up somewhere in the album I am to guess they show up
somewhere sometime to All.
I have made some head way on this.
I have decided to go with 24 flooded 6v 125's
I have contacted Zivan (spelling correct this time) and have sent the
charger in for reprogramming for the newly to be purchased batteries.

The thing is my Beautiful Bride found this truck and we purchased it in a
matter of 2 days from the time she found it. I feel very fortunate in this
find as it has been converted by somebody who knew what they were doing.
Maybe even one of you guys. I never could get a straight answer out of the
individual who sold it as to why but the best we can figure is that he
could not get the distance he wanted?
So at this point we are fabricating hinges to tilt the bed and
compartments to hold the batteries in the frame under the bed.
It is only by dumb luck that we have stumbled upon this vehicle now it
sounds like the real game begins in learning how to care for my batteries.
Thanks for all you time spent on input. You are all very helpful.
I have to be honest I don't know what I am reading most of the time but I
can't stop reading it.
Thanks Again
and
Thanks In Advance


On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
[email protected]> wrote:

> OK Sean, and thanks for replying as it does help us to help
> you.
>
> This is not rocket science, and after you know the EV basics,
> you'll do a V8-ad head-slap going 'Why did I try to make this
> so hard?'
>
> The biggest and primary thing to do is to not make a
> purchase until you have the answers that fit your needs. The
> more you tell us, the better picture we can have of what your
> EV needs are.
>
> So, if I understand correctly, your initial inquiry was
> because you have already purchased a Ford Ranger conversion
> EV, that currently has a 144VDC pack made up of AGM
> batteries, and likely has a range with new batteries of
> about 15+ miles on flat terrain.
>
> Now you have told us that you are targeting a 40 mile range,
> I will assume your wallet is as thin as most people and you
> are looking to do this on a budget, not with an inve$tment
> in a Li-ion pack.
>
> Your Ranger is a perfect vehicle for a conversion EV. Now, to
> suit your 40 mile range needs, you need a pack that fits that
> even when the pack is in its third year of use/or at the end
> of its cycle life (PbSO4 - lead/acid batteries loose capacity
> as they age).
>
> I suggest a revised target of 45 miles, when driving on the
> highway at a constant 55mph. After you get off the highway you
> would have about 5+ more miles at sub-highway speed to find a
> charge (after that do not drive the EV, you will kill the
> pack).
>
> A 144VDC pack of T105s should give you a ~45 mile range at a
> constant 55mph. Later when money permits, having an emeter is
> a Gawd-send. Then you'll really know how many AmpHours in and
> out, thus how much range left you really have.
>
> I suggest you consider designing the bed to able to tilt for
> easy monthly battery maintenance, and the rack under the bed to
> be able to handle all sizes of 6V golf/traction batteries:
> T105, T125, T145. This will give great flexibility and improve
> the EV's resale value.
>
> Since you have a truck, you have the advantage of later bumping
> up your pack to use T125 or equivalent batteries for a little
> more range and for more money. The slightly taller T145 6V
> batteries, for even more range, at a higher cost. But then you
> are getting into lead-sled performance.
>
> Which is why I suggested you start with the less expensive T105
> type batteries. The performance and range should meet your needs
> at a good price.
>
> Do not buy your batteries ahead of time and then let them sit,
> and sit. Only buy them in large quantities (not, onezy, twozies)
> so they are the fresh with the same date code and you'll get a
> good quantity purchase price discount. I like to have them
> dropped off at my home, and they may take the dead cores back
> with them at the same time to give you another discount. Here
> are you battery sources local to you:
>
> P&R Supply
>
> http://www.sourceesb.com/DistributorDetails.asp?regid=0&sname=Manufacturer&type=W&search=Trojan+Battery&filter=None&titleid=37645&companyid=108717&distid=15100&pgnum=1&pgpos=3&action=DIST_NAME_CLICK
>
> Interstate is not the best battery
>
> http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/DealerLocator/Default.aspx?ZipCode=74146&DT=201205212135442816
>
> In a pinch you could get Napa to order you fresh 6V 105 min
> golf batteries
> http://www.napaonline.com/
>
> http://www.lookooh.com/B/Oklahoma/Batteries-Manufacturers.html
>
> Is a shame that your nearest USBattery dealer is ~100mi away.
> http://www.usbattery.com/usb_golf_p1.html
> US2200 batteries are sold to golf courses, so the price is
> usually good on these.
>
>
> According to the web site you stated,
> http://www.mmlumberco.com/
> you are located in Tulsa, OK. I will assume that site is where
> you work
> http://g.co/maps/bjbaw
>
> I will assume your NG3 runs off 240VAC, and you have arranged for
> an outlet at home and at work to charge from (a 20A or better
> circuit). I see that there is no EVSE (public charging) anywhere
> near you
> http://www.recargo.com/search?search=74146&commit=+++SEARCH+++
> and the NG3 even with a J1772 adapter is likely not compatible
> for use with more EVSE (a NG3 has too low a power factor and has
> current spikes).
>
> But as long as you have a regular 208 to 240VAC outlet of 20Amps
> or higher, the NG3 should work fine if you adjust the finishing
> and float voltages according what the Trojan page I previously
> gave you states. Please invest in a fairly accurate digital volt
> meter. I suggest you also have a 110VAC charging ability (like
> when over at a friends house, it can add miles to your pack,
> but mainly it is healthier for the pack to have a charge on it.
> There are several 144V driver can recommend, or you could search
> using 144VDC 1.5KW charger
>
> I will also assume this a commute vehicle and not a carry lumber
> work vehicle. If it is the latter, then we will need to know those
> work needs, and the details of the EV to know if you have the
> right system configuration.
>
> According to
>
> http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2%29/.do
> most of Tulsa is fairly flat, with hills to the east of your work
> that are about 300 ft. If you live up in those hills, you should
> be OK with the horse power you have.
>
> I will also assume your EV has a DC motor and thus no regenerative
> braking. This is OK since you do not have any serious hills to
> come down in with heavy loads.
>
> To help show us what you have, I suggest you take advantage of
> the EValbum.com site. This is a free service to show others of
> conversion
> EV configurations. You do not need to be a web designer to make a
> page. Here are some trucks with a 144V pack:
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/2924
>
> http://evalbum.com/3739
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/1860
>
>
> I ask that others post their additions/corrections to the above.
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> -
>


> Sean Stevens wrote:
> > > Thank you all for you input thus far. I am really in over my head
> > > however
> > > I am a pretty quick study once I get my mind around the basics.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sean, this is what Clyde Visser, the original owner of the EVDL
created it for, to be available for people to get EV answers
and advice so sorely needed, even today (as you and your bride 
have shown). You know to post anytime you have EV questions.


Also, you may want to make contact to your two nearest EAA Chapters:

North Texas EAA
Web: http://www.nteaa.org/
Contact: Jarad Leverington jleverington @yahoo.com
Mailing: 325 Mimosa Drive, Murphy, TX 75094, 469-348-4993,
Meetings: 2nd Saturday of the month
Location: Time and Place for the upcoming meeting is posted at the
NTEAA Yahoo Group 
http://diyelectriccar.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/dallas-ev-club-24.html

Mid America EAA
Web Site: maeaa.org
Contact: Mike Chancey nowev @sbcglobal.net , (816) 822-8079
Mailing: 1700 East 80th Street, Kansas City, MO 64131-2361
Meetings: 1:30pm, 2nd Saturday of the month
Location: Location changes, please check web site for details


Both of those chapters are about 250 miles from you, but you could
still stay in contact with them so your EV driver networking 
can begin.

At one time Oklahoma had an extensive EV purchase rebate program
http://www.thecarelectric.com/content/electric-car-benefits-by-state.php#OK
which might still be in place. Thus with all those OK EV drivers
out there, after a while, you may want to form an Oklahoma EAA 
Chapter. 

Today's Production EVs, pih, older Production EVs, conversions,
nEVs, electric motorcycles, scooters, bicycles, or just anyone
EV interested can be a member of the EAA and your future Chapter.
Its something to think about ...


{brucedp.150m.com}


-


> Sean Stevens wrote:
> > Bruce,
> > I don't know you but you sure know me. You nailed it.
> > I put some photos up somewhere in the album I am to guess they show up
> ...


----------

