# [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello EV fans!

I am in the process of converting an ICE to EV, and although I started 
my own schematic diagram, and I came across many questions that do not 
seem to be treated in our current discussion list.
I am sure that all these questions have already been answered, and I 
feel that it is somewhat wasteful to re-invent the wheel.

I have been looking for existing EV schematic diagrams. The diagrams I 
could find in the literature (such as "Convert It" by Bob Brown or the 
suggested diagrams found in the Curtis 1231C instructions) are a good 
start but they lack details, especially on the safety and operational 
features.

I tried to find full EV schematic diagrams on the EV archives site, but 
without success.

Could somebody point me to a place where I could access such diagrams? 
If they are available, is there a fault and failure analysis (similar to 
the ones used in the aerospace industry) associated with such diagrams? 
If not, I would suggest that we publish our diagrams and start 
discussing their features. I believe that fault and failure analysis is 
primordial since we are going to see an increased number of conversions. 
We want to make sure that as a community we have provided all the safety 
recommendations to those who embark on such a job!

If this subject is too technical for this discussion list, we may to 
move it to the deeply technical list (I do not remember the Web 
address.. please help me!)

Your feedback would be highly appreciated!


Michael Bonard
PE, EE
Washington, DC
EV Album list http://www.evalbum.com/1823

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Michael,

Look at the Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers by typing this 
heading in your search engine.

The first edition started in December 1906 and runs up to the present.

There is complete details, diagrams, riser diagrams, block diagrams of any 
electrical device and prime mover there is. These is even how to construct 
the mechanical structures to contain these devices and components.

There is a whole section of the battery technology that starts from the 
first concept to the present.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bonard" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:10 AM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams


> Hello EV fans!
>
> I am in the process of converting an ICE to EV, and although I started
> my own schematic diagram, and I came across many questions that do not
> seem to be treated in our current discussion list.
> I am sure that all these questions have already been answered, and I
> feel that it is somewhat wasteful to re-invent the wheel.
>
> I have been looking for existing EV schematic diagrams. The diagrams I
> could find in the literature (such as "Convert It" by Bob Brown or the
> suggested diagrams found in the Curtis 1231C instructions) are a good
> start but they lack details, especially on the safety and operational
> features.
>
> I tried to find full EV schematic diagrams on the EV archives site, but
> without success.
>
> Could somebody point me to a place where I could access such diagrams?
> If they are available, is there a fault and failure analysis (similar to
> the ones used in the aerospace industry) associated with such diagrams?
> If not, I would suggest that we publish our diagrams and start
> discussing their features. I believe that fault and failure analysis is
> primordial since we are going to see an increased number of conversions.
> We want to make sure that as a community we have provided all the safety
> recommendations to those who embark on such a job!
>
> If this subject is too technical for this discussion list, we may to
> move it to the deeply technical list (I do not remember the Web
> address.. please help me!)
>
> Your feedback would be highly appreciated!
>
>
> Michael Bonard
> PE, EE
> Washington, DC
> EV Album list http://www.evalbum.com/1823
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Most home EV wiring is pretty basic. There is usually fewer than 5
switches, a contactor or two, a fuse/breaker, and the controller. Most
of these 'diagrams' are 'invented' by back yard mechanics not
engineers. If it works, then it's good!

I've been working on a slightly smarter system, diagram here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/jonGlauser/EVAdventures#5215922960031559650

I went with relays because of the increased designing required with
silicon (I wanted something quick and easily understandable to a
majority of people on this list). It's not entirely done, but works
well enough for now.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Take a look at my blog, www.electricbus.blogspot.com and you can see a very
basic diagram/schematic. This is what got me through it all, I'm sure the
electrical engeneer would cringe, but it works and I understood it.

Soren


Hello EV fans!

I am in the process of converting an ICE to EV, and although I started 
my own schematic diagram, and I came across many questions that do not 
seem to be treated in our current discussion list.
I am sure that all these questions have already been answered, and I 
feel that it is somewhat wasteful to re-invent the wheel.

I have been looking for existing EV schematic diagrams. The diagrams I 
could find in the literature (such as "Convert It" by Bob Brown or the 
suggested diagrams found in the Curtis 1231C instructions) are a good 
start but they lack details, especially on the safety and operational 
features.
<CUT QUOTE END>
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/EV-Schematic-Diagrams-tp19414607p19415844.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"I have been looking for existing EV schematic diagrams."

http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_IndexElectrical.html
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pgallery.php (gallery 20)

Also I'll see if I can post my schematics with a link.

Barry Oppenheim
New Hope, PA
www.JustAnotherEVConversion.com

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here's the 1915 version of the Standard Handbook on Google Books...full
view: 

http://books.google.com/books?id=YFY3AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Standar
d+Handbook+for+Electrical+Engineers&ei=zDvISK_OC4_-sQPm36XXDA

-MT

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:36 AM
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams

Hello Michael,

Look at the Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers by typing this 
heading in your search engine.

The first edition started in December 1906 and runs up to the present.

There is complete details, diagrams, riser diagrams, block diagrams of any 
electrical device and prime mover there is. These is even how to construct 
the mechanical structures to contain these devices and components.

There is a whole section of the battery technology that starts from the 
first concept to the present.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bonard" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:10 AM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams


> Hello EV fans!
>
> I am in the process of converting an ICE to EV, and although I started
> my own schematic diagram, and I came across many questions that do not
> seem to be treated in our current discussion list.
> I am sure that all these questions have already been answered, and I
> feel that it is somewhat wasteful to re-invent the wheel.
>
> I have been looking for existing EV schematic diagrams. The diagrams I
> could find in the literature (such as "Convert It" by Bob Brown or the
> suggested diagrams found in the Curtis 1231C instructions) are a good
> start but they lack details, especially on the safety and operational
> features.
>
> I tried to find full EV schematic diagrams on the EV archives site, but
> without success.
>
> Could somebody point me to a place where I could access such diagrams?
> If they are available, is there a fault and failure analysis (similar to
> the ones used in the aerospace industry) associated with such diagrams?
> If not, I would suggest that we publish our diagrams and start
> discussing their features. I believe that fault and failure analysis is
> primordial since we are going to see an increased number of conversions.
> We want to make sure that as a community we have provided all the safety
> recommendations to those who embark on such a job!
>
> If this subject is too technical for this discussion list, we may to
> move it to the deeply technical list (I do not remember the Web
> address.. please help me!)
>
> Your feedback would be highly appreciated!
>
>
> Michael Bonard
> PE, EE
> Washington, DC
> EV Album list http://www.evalbum.com/1823
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Michael,
I too have started to work on my schematic. I didn't find too many
references, so I just had a go at it. You are welcome to have a look:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhmzznh8_0f568n6g9

I'll appreciate any feedback. Its all just on paper for now, but it should
be going into practice soon!

Cheers,

-Nick
http://electricghia.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi, Nick

First - putting together a complete schematic is a great way to go.


I have a few comments/suggestions:

First, you might think about including EVERY wire and relay on this schematic, even if they seem obvious. For example, you show a 12V signal going to the main contactor, but you don't show any ground lead. Similarly for the tach - you might include ALL the wiring for completeness. If you have everything spelled out in the schematic, it will be easier to organize the wiring when you actually wire everything up. 

You don't show any switch or relay for the cabin heater - the way you show it, it would always be on if the breaker is in the ON position.

It wouldn't hurt to add fuses to both lines of the off-board charger - on the battery side of your Anderson connector.

You show a 12V signal going to the controller terminal ( KSI?). For Curtis controllers, this signal has to be HV battery voltage, not chassis +12V. I took a look at the Logisytems manual, and they say nothing about the KSI signal. You might give them a call to clear that up. 
Maybe Logisystems controllers do use the chassis 12V signal, but, if they do, you would also need a chassis ground connection to the controller or the 12V signal would have no effect. Even if this is a bolted-to-chassis ground, and not a separate ground wire, include it in your schematic.

You don't show any controller precharge circuit.

Your potbox switch does not open the main contactor. That means if you have a full-on controller failure, you would have to turn off the ignition key to stop the car. It would be safer to wire the main contactor through the potbox switch. In that case, if there is a controller failure, all you have to do is lift your foot off the accelerator to stop the car.

It would be a bit safer to move your battery current shunt to the other side of the circuit breaker. That way, when you open the breaker ( for servicing, etc) you wouldn't have live wires still attached to the meter in the dash.

Phil

> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 01:22:43 -0400
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams
> 
> Hi Michael,
> I too have started to work on my schematic. I didn't find too many
> references, so I just had a go at it. You are welcome to have a look:
> http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhmzznh8_0f568n6g9
> 
> I'll appreciate any feedback. Its all just on paper for now, but it should
> be going into practice soon!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -Nick
> http://electricghia.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nick,

I'm curious what you found for a "Time of Day Timer Switch" for the
pre-heater. I'm looking for something similar. You must be in a northern
climate like me (Minnesota.) Do you have a supplier for this device?

For anyone interested in another schematic example in a relatively modern car,
my schematic can be found at
http://www.simonfamily.us/FocusEV/Wiring.htm

My project is not yet complete (probably a month or so away) so it's not
completely verified yet.

Chris Simon
***************
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 01:22:43 -0400
From: "nicolas drouin" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>

Hi Michael,
I too have started to work on my schematic. I didn't find too many
references, so I just had a go at it. You are welcome to have a look:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhmzznh8_0f568n6g9

I'll appreciate any feedback. Its all just on paper for now, but it should
be going into practice soon!

Cheers,
-Nick



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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Chris,
Indeed, I'm in Montreal, Quebec. I hope to use this car year-around. I was
thinking of using a wall-mount base-board-heater thermostat/timer with a
very normal space heater device. Here in Quebec, the local do-it-yourself
renovation centres (Home Hardware type places) tend to sell these for ~30$.
The trick will be to get one (or modify one) to use an internal battery to
keep track of the time for when the AC is not plugged in. Worst-case, it
will be a mechanical timer that I'll crank when I get out of the car in the
morning at work.
The idea is to have a nice toasty car for when I get in to go home. At home
it will sleep in the garage, so no special heating required there.
I'm still trying to flush out this concept. I don't know of anyone else
giving this a go. Let me know what you come up with.
-Nick



> Chris Simon <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Nick,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Chris Simon wrote:
> > I'm curious what you found for a "Time of Day Timer Switch" for the
> > pre-heater. I'm looking for something similar. You must be in a northern
> > climate like me (Minnesota.) Do you have a supplier for this device?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why not install a remote start system to start the heat up from inside
whenever you want instead of when you THINK you want? It would then work
before leaving the office, the theater, etc.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:47 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams



> Chris Simon wrote:
> > I'm curious what you found for a "Time of Day Timer Switch" for the
> > pre-heater. I'm looking for something similar. You must be in a northern
> > climate like me (Minnesota.) Do you have a supplier for this device?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mark Grasser <[email protected]>wrote:
> >Why not install a remote start system to start the heat up from inside
> >whenever you want instead of when you THINK you want? It would then work
> >before leaving the office, the theater, etc.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Mark Grasser asked:
>> Why not install a remote start system to start the heat up from
>> inside whenever you want instead of when you THINK you want? It
>> would then work before leaving the office, the theater, etc.



> nicolas drouin wrote:
> > Three reasons: - The advantage of a timer is that time is on my side.
> > I don't have to even think about pre-heating the car, it will just
> > happen.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > The bulk charging portion 0-80% SOC is generally done with as much
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Phil,

Thanks for your input. I'll apply it to my diagram and repost when its up.
See inline below for comments.



> Phil Marino <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi, Nick
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi, Nick - 

Here's how I handled the potbox/contactor thing:

My DC/DC gets its power before the main contactor - I've got a separate relay ( SPST potter-brumfield KUEF series - about $10 and rated for 10A at 150VDC) that comes on when the ignition key is turned to the accessory postion. I think that's what most people do (but I don't know for sure). I agree with you - I wouldn't want the DC/DC to be switching on and off all the time. You could do the same with the heater - have it before the main contactor ( that's what I do also)

And, I've got the main (positive) contactor set up to close the first time you press on the accelerator ( when the potbox switches closes) and stay closed until you hit the brake pedal ( or turn off the ignition switch). It's just an extra couple of 12V relays to do that, but it seems like a good solution to me. You still get a quick shut-down in an emergency, and don't have the contactor clacking quite as much.

Phil



> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:39:17 -0400
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Schematic Diagrams
> 
> Phil,
> 
> Thanks for your input. I'll apply it to my diagram and repost when its up.
> See inline below for comments.
> 
>


> Phil Marino <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi, Nick
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> nicolas drouin wrote:
> > for a three phase charger (my case) the constant voltage phase is
> > held at 14.7V, but if I'm drawing 1500W (say from the ceramic heater
> > from EvSource) that's 8.5 amps for heating.
> ...


----------

