# Treadmill Motor



## n8thegr8 (Feb 11, 2008)

that motor's a beast! most of the ones I've been lookin at are electric scooter motors around 800W and 36v. That motor could probably do burnouts, lol. It's cool that it's only 13 volts, but it would pull some huge amps, so you might have to do something tricky as far as the controller and batteries go. It would be an interesting conversion for sure. I'm building one with a custom controller, but I'm building it to handle about 160 amps with an 800w motor, I have no idea how much you would need to power that beast, probably a golf cart controller of some sort. I'm by no means an expert though, so take what I say with a grain of salt


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Are you sure that isn't 130 vdc instead of 13 vdc? Otherwise that would be like 205 amps. I just checked ebay and found this one that may be close: http://cgi.ebay.com/Nordic-Track-DC...ZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem


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## sharp21 (Mar 11, 2008)

Yup thats pretty much exactly what it looked like. It had a fan on the shaft that sticks out the non-drive end.
So what about that as a drive motor on something?
S.


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## n8thegr8 (Feb 11, 2008)

ahhh...130v, that makes more sense now, lol. Well, it would probably be better suited to a motorcycle, because to get that voltage you'd need 11 12v batteries, even on a motorcycle you'd have a hard time finding a place for all of them. Could be interesting, and would probably get you some pretty sweet performance due to the high voltage, but I think the batteries are gonna get ya.


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

You could achieve that kind of voltage with Lithium batteries as they are light and high voltage.

If the motor is rated at 2672 watts then 2672/130 = 20.5 Amps would be the amperage draw of the motor.

In that case you'd want a 20-30AH pack at least so that you don't stress the batteries.

A 130 volt 20 AH pack would contain 2600 watt-hours and if your bicycle used 100 watt-hours or less you'd get 20 good miles of range out of it.


The only problem would be getting a controller for that high of a voltage that wouldn't cost a ton, or be too big because most are designed for higher amps also.

I don't know of any controllers in the 120 volt range that aren't designed for larger EV's.


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## johnnyfoos (Sep 1, 2008)

I also have a treadmill motor around that rating,
2 1/2 HP, 120 VDC
I'd been wanting to test at lower volts, but have not had a chance yet
Good luck


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

Thread necromancy:

For those looking to do this, it should be possible to use a treadmill motor (generally designed for 100-130+ VDC) on an ebike without using voltage that high, depending on the speed and torque you're after. 

I've got one here that I've played with a bit, and even at 24V it has enough torque when suitably geared down to make me think it would operate as desired at least at 36V. Some videos of the test rig are here:
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/01/motor-tests-mounted-on-crazybike-v20.html
along with explanations, comments, etc. 

One issue with using these is that at least some places regulate the amount of power you can have on an ebike, unless you register it as a moped or motor-driven cycle, with insurance/license/etc. Most of the limitations are 1HP or less, while most treadmill motors are higher capacity than that. Theoretically, undervolting or otherwise hardware-limiting the motor so that it's actual output power can't be that high should be enough to satisfy the law, but I don't know that it's been questioned in court yet.

That's the theory I'm running under for my own use of one, however. I did not end up using it on the Crazybike2 (the bike being developed in the videos), but I will probably be using it in the recumbent tadpole trike I'm working on now.
________
Glass Weed Pipe


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## johnnyfoos (Sep 1, 2008)

Hello all,,..

I have another question about "Treadmill" motors-
The stock controller
is it of any use 
like, for using DC volts
and not AC
?
I saved the controller when I got my motor,
had to tear it apart on lunch, dang thing was to big
to fit under topper shell on my toyletta, so 
I grabbed what I thought might be good, belt was wasted.
$5. wasted on stuff that will not work well for wind turbine use
but,
EV play might be good.


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

Well, if it's like the treadmill I have here it uses an SCR rather than MOSFETs, after the bridge rectifier and filter cap, to slice the voltage. 

On mine, the PWM input (the actual "controller") comes from a different board--the one up in the main console with all the displays and such. It's not usable in anything else because it is part of the microcontroller-based custom boards that run those displays, input buttons, etc. 

So even if you modify and use the power board, you'll still have to likely build the more complex part of it--the PWM section. 

I'd recommend either building one from scratch, or an existing open-source design (which range from very simple but not necessarily protected against all the potential gotchas from motor control, to very complex but extremely robust), or simply buying an off-the-shelf one if you're not completely comfortable with building your own.

The PWM part is easy to design and build, but making a power-handling motor-drive section that can withstand all the oddball things that very occasionally go wrong (especially with MOSFETs at high power), that's not as easy. Easier nowadays since there are a lot of pre-made driver chips and such, but it takes research to find the ones right for your application.
________
VAPORIZER


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## johnnyfoos (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks
(A-wolf)

I didn't think it was workable
but 
I tend to pak-rat WAY 2 much stuff

I might try the Tmill motor hooked up 
to the 24 VDC output on my
"Solar Scooter"
just to see what happens, (how much it jumps on start up ect,..)
the "soft-start might show it as not much but
it is about 2 1/5 times the size of the S.S. stock motor


thanks again


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

I packrat *everything*, no matter how insignificant it might seem. I even figured out a way to make a reasonably useful and transparent bike fairing out of some old tent poles (the kind that link together) and various 2 and 3 liter soda bottles (by cutting the flat sections out and using them as plastic sheets to be stapled together)


Keep in mind that the TMM will not have a lot of torque or speed at only 24V, since it's probably only 1/6 of what it was designed to run at. 

If it's like mine, it's supposed to be 7000RPM no load at 130VDC. That means it's only going to be around 1200RPM no load at 24VDC. Depending on how it's geared down, it might still have decent torque to run the bike if you pedal up to speed first, possibly even by itself, but it may not be able to start the bike from a dead stop at that voltage. 

The good news is that at 24V it will run fairly cool, but if it's like mine it *will* require external cooling, such as forced air. Mine was easy to cool. I removed the existing pulley, slipped a set of large metal washers on the shaft to ensure anything I put on the shaft would not contact the face of the motor, slipped a garden-hose rubber washer in front of those, slipped an alternator's metal fan in front of that, then another rubber washer, then just screwed the existing pulley back on. (I had already removed the flywheel from the pulley with my lathe). 

Even under test-stand loads, the air forced thru it by that fan (which adds some noise, but not a huge amount) keeps it cool at 36V. I have yet to get it on the bike on the road to test it, but it should work fine there, too (though I don't know for sure if there's enough torque).

See the videos on the page I linked to previously for stand tests at different voltages, using a gearing that reduces it to roughly 1/3 of the motor speed, at the chainring I'm testing with the 2x2 (in the second video). 

Quoted from the post:
"The serpentine-style belt from the treadmill that I'm using for the first motor reduction stage is about 3.3:1, taking the ~2100RPM @36V and reducing it to ~636RPM. If I could get a 7:1 reduction to take that to ~90RPM, it'd be ideal. With 24V, I get about 1400RPM, reduced to 424RPM, which would only need about 4.7:1 reduction to get to 90RPM."

I did later figure out how to do this, and had it setup on the bike, but I had no batteries I could actually carry on the bike to test it on the road with, only stationary next to the car batteries. 
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/01/motor-demo-video-shaft-failure.html
contains video of the test. 
And this one
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/02/first-ride-success-learned-from.html
has video of a test with what was just about the last of the new drivetrains before I changed motors.

When I got batteries I could test it with, I also got a "better" motor, with it's own gearbox (from a powerchair), so I didn't actually test it on the road with the treadmill motor, though I should have before I took that apart to put the powerchair motor on. So I don't know for certain that it would have worked--I *think* it would, though. 

So the treadmill motor idea will have to wait for testing till I have the trike frame done.

(EDIT: I forgot, but rereading my original blog post, I did actually test it in the yard with a tiny battery, and it seemed to be working (barely) with that, at 12V7Ah, so it *should* have worked with 24 or 36V, if I'd ever tested it that way).
________
Buy Bubblers


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## vanmankline (Sep 22, 2009)

I had come up with the idea to make an ev (cart/mini-car) out of an old treadmill, however I was hoping to use a 12v to 120v inverter (800W continuous/1600W peak). This would allow me to use the stock controller. I'm sure this is not the most efficient way, but would be the cheapest for me. Now to really hijack the thread...

Do you think installing a 500w 120v to 240v (US to European) converter between the controller and the motor will allow me to get twice the speed out of the motor? I think it would work like running a 12v motor at 24v. Am I wrong? I'm ok with a shorter life if I can get a higher speed. Will I need to step the voltage back down on the ground side of the motor? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

-Mike


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

vanmankline said:


> I had come up with the idea to make an ev (cart/mini-car) out of an old treadmill, however I was hoping to use a 12v to 120v inverter (800W continuous/1600W peak). This would allow me to use the stock controller. I'm sure this is not the most efficient way, but would be the cheapest for me. Now to really hijack the thread...


Well, I guess you could try it, but you're going to have to carry probably twice the batteries you would have otherwise to get the same range, because of the efficiency losses in that inverter. 

How much does that inverter cost? Because you could buy a controller (used at least) for a reasonable price, depending on the vehicle weight and speed required from it. 

Also remember the treadmill controller probably isn't meant to do heavy duty work, so it probably isn't going to survive the abuse of both the (likely or nearly) square-wave inverter output, and the heavy load of moving a vehicle.



> Do you think installing a 500w 120v to 240v (US to European) converter between the controller and the motor will allow me to get twice the speed out of the motor? I think it would work like running a 12v motor at 24v. Am I wrong? I'm ok with a shorter life if I can get a higher speed. Will I need to step the voltage back down on the ground side of the motor? Any input would be appreciated.


I not sure you can use anything like that for the motor output to do that, but you'd have to try it to find out. Just remember you might risk destroying something.

It is definitely possible to power a higher voltage motor from a lower voltage battery, using an boost type controller, but you'll need a much larger Ah capacity battery to do it, and heavier cabling from that battery to the inverter/controller since the current draw from the battery will be much higher than it would be if you had a higher voltage "direct" setup without the voltage-boost-conversion.

You're basically talking about multiplying the battery voltage at least 10 times, which will reduce the current draw at the motor end of things for the same power output, but at the battery end of things the current draw will *increase* at least 10 times (more actually, because of power losses in conversion) from what it would be if you used 10 12V batteries to start out at the "right" voltage.

Because of the Peukert effect, then if you are using lead-acid batteries, that 10x current draw will mean you'll probably get much much less power output from the battery in total than you would if you used 10 of the same battery (or smaller) in series for the higher voltage. 

Does that make sense?
________
Wiki Vaporizer


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## todayican (Jul 31, 2008)

Wondering out loud how one of these would do with the amps pushed up some.

say 200 for 30 sec and 100 continuous.

Anyone tried?


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

I don't know. Mine is very quiet without the fan, but it would also burn up with no cooling, as it's an open-cage design intended to be air-cooled. I haven't seen one that isn't made that way, but I have only seen a few in person and a few more on the web. 

With the fan (an alternator fan friction-mounted behind the pulley), it is VERY loud at high RPMs, above 36V it starts to sound a bit like your average box fan on medium. Just guessing but at it's rated 120VDC at 7000RPM it'd probably sound like a couple of box fans on high. 

But with a quieter fan or ducted forced air from a shrouded noise-insulated fan, it could be kept cool without all that noise. I only did it with the alternator fan because it was very very easy to do, and I already had the fan right there, fitting perfectly on the shaft, etc etc. 

Problem with running one of these motors at what would amount to TEN TIMES it's rated current (for mine, anyway) is that it doesn't have the mass to soak up that heat and dissipate it--you'd *have* to do some very thorough and fast heat removal or probably destroy the motor.
________


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## gabtrac (Jun 23, 2015)

Hey Amberwolf, I just found a couple of treadmill motors -about the same as the one you speak of.
What kind of controller would I need and where would I get one?
I'm thinking about making a little cart to scoot about the farm.
Thanks,
a


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## Johnny J (Nov 27, 2008)

DC PM-controller up to 136V, quite expensive..
http://kellycontroller.com/kdz1240024v-120v400aseriespm-p-1026.html


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## ken will (Dec 19, 2009)

If you are talking about 48 to 60 volts something like these will work.

http://electricscooterparts.com/speedcontrollers60volt.html


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

pretty much every treadmill motor I've seen was designed for 90+vdc, but they are only in the <3hp range, and they are PM motors which are weak on startup torque









whereas a series wound acts more like a CVT, trading torque for speed as the rpm (and speed) come up.


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