# Possible AWD Conversion Question



## modern_messiah (Dec 8, 2010)

Hi all,

I signed up a year or so back and was heavily looking at doing an EV conversion but my head got turned by the motor part and I've spent the better part of the last 12 months learning about, designing and almost (looong story) building my own motor.

But my head is back on track now and I've decided to get serious about building myself a, um...serious track car. One that's good down the 1/4 but equally at home on the track. A weekend racer if you will. Road legality is an after thought.

Other than the brief desires mentioned above I have put no further thought into the project other than potential donor vehicles. And this is where I've become stuck. I would love to convert an AWD car. I think the torque and power electric motors are capable of putting down through rubber is begging to be used in them, and I'm more than happy to oblige. 

Now I know this is nothing new - but my question is what would the best bet be for going about doing this? A straight engine for motor swap (run it through the existing or upgraded gear box, diff etc) or remove everything and do what CroDriver appeared to do at the start of his BMW build and hook a motor to a diff for the front and rear wheels respectively. I understand the first method could result in some significant power losses but it would be the simplest and the performance could benefit from a carefully selected gearbox, especially for racing.

Or should I abandon the AWD and just go for a straight rear wheel drive conversion? That would obviously be even simpler. But that's also (in my humble opinion) boring.

I could also be talking out my bum. But that's why I'm asking here!

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

- Matt


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

I converted a RAV4 AWD - a recent post here:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=254301&postcount=3
listed the pictures and complexity in doing this - if you keep the stock transaxle, it will limit the size of motor you can fit...


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## modern_messiah (Dec 8, 2010)

Bugger. I'm assuming the situation would differ from car to car but an AWD vehicle would traditionally (I'd assume) have a tighter engine bay than a normal vehicle.

Obviously I'd have to research whatever car I decide on heavily before purchase otherwise I'll have an expensive paperweight sitting in my shed. See how much room I would have to work with and what I could possibly replace the ICE with. A RAV4 uses a fairly small 4 cylinder engine (here in Australia anyway) but I was thinking along the lines of an R34 Nissan Skyline which uses a straight 6, so is theoretically larger than the RAV4 engine. I could also be completely wrong as this assumption was made on all of 2minutes worth of googling the RB26DETT engine. 

In regards to your RAV4 - could you have maybe used 2 Warp9's mounted one on top of each other so that the gap between them is where the front diff sits and then connect them both to the transmission via an adapter plate with a gear on each motor connecting to a central gear that then connects to the transmission?

Super complicated but you would get the power you were after...or again I'm talking porkies.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

modern_messiah said:


> Bugger. I'm assuming the situation would differ from car to car but an AWD vehicle would traditionally (I'd assume) have a tighter engine bay than a normal vehicle.
> 
> Obviously I'd have to research whatever car I decide on heavily before purchase otherwise I'll have an expensive paperweight sitting in my shed. See how much room I would have to work with and what I could possibly replace the ICE with. A RAV4 uses a fairly small 4 cylinder engine (here in Australia anyway) but I was thinking along the lines of an R34 Nissan Skyline which uses a straight 6, so is theoretically larger than the RAV4 engine. I could also be completely wrong as this assumption was made on all of 2minutes worth of googling the RB26DETT engine.
> 
> ...


keep in mind you also have to consider the rav4 AWD driveline (shafts, gears, diffs) will probably snap/break when experiencing so much torque at such low rpm, remember honda motors are literally the opposite of a DC motor, torque at high rpm vs torque at zero/low rpm.

R34 CONVERSION! DO IT!

(1) The driveline is strong enough, or can be built strong enough to withstand the low end torque.
(2) One motor is sufficient, just use a higher end motor like the 500hp capable Warp11HV (372kw, 266V sagged & 1400A) 
(3) invest in a powerful battery pack, if you want decent range and power, Headyway's are good to use. 18$ each for 3.2V & 8AH (peak 160A) 300g
1040 cells = 312kg, 104S&10P = 333V & 80AH = 26.6kwh, 18.7K$USD
26.6kwh = 100miles @ 266wh/mile ~40mph, higher speeds range = 75miles or less (at 100% Depth of Discharge, DoD)

I have also thought about an AWD conversion, it would make use of all that low-end torque and launch like a bat out of hell!


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## modern_messiah (Dec 8, 2010)

> I have also thought about an AWD conversion, it would make use of all that low-end torque and launch like a bat out of hell!


Precisely my thoughts. I am no where near ready to do this conversion but it'll definitely be happening. I just need to do a lot more research before I get started. Plus I don't even have a donor vehicle yet....or a garage big enough for it, my daily driver and my GF's car. I refuse to kick mine out and I'll never hear the end of it if the stupid hatch is forced to sit in the open


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

modern_messiah said:


> In regards to your RAV4 - could you have maybe used 2 Warp9's mounted one on top of each other so that the gap between them is where the front diff sits and then connect them both to the transmission via an adapter plate with a gear on each motor connecting to a central gear that then connects to the transmission?
> 
> Super complicated but you would get the power you were after...or again I'm talking porkies.


There were lots of ideas thrown around by contributors to my build thread, but ultimately I went with a single WARP9 motor and could not be happier... There is lots of power - any more and as mentioned, there would be lots of parts snapping... Stock ICE was 148 HP - with 46 LIFEPO4 (200AH each) and a 1000A controller, it is now about 200 HP (with the fast-launch high-end torque).


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Modern

If you want a "serious track car" look at something like a Locost (Lotus 7) type machine
modifying an existing car will always end up too heavy

A light 7 type will blow away a heavy great saloon car - 
The original 7's were banned from sports car racing because they were unbeatable

This will give you the fastest track car - may not be the most winning! as that depends on classes and competition


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> There were lots of ideas thrown around by contributors to my build thread, but ultimately I went with a single WARP9 motor and could not be happier... There is lots of power - any more and as mentioned, there would be lots of parts snapping... Stock ICE was 148 HP - with 46 LIFEPO4 (200AH each) and a 1000A controller, it is now about 200 HP (with the fast-launch high-end torque).


Can you share more with us about the AWD drive and how it feels on the road?

Is the controller turned up to 100%, meaning are you putting 1000A to the warp9 at launch? have you timed any of your 0-60's?

Are you using the stock manual transmission? Have you had to replace anything?


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## modern_messiah (Dec 8, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Hi Modern
> 
> If you want a "serious track car" look at something like a Locost (Lotus 7) type machine
> modifying an existing car will always end up too heavy
> ...


I have looked into this (not too seriously yet however) but there is something about them that just doesn't appeal to me. I like them very much - the look is fantastic and I am fully aware of how they can perform. But the build just wouldn't appeal to me for some reason. At the end of the day I need to enjoy and look forward to whatever I decide to do. It is a hobby after all!

This may change closer to the start of the build but only time will tell. Thanks for the suggestion though!


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

I like this light awd roadster kit car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtaya

This could be made into a kick ass track car.


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## modern_messiah (Dec 8, 2010)

drgrieve said:


> I like this light awd roadster kit car
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtaya
> 
> This could be made into a kick ass track car.


That does look good and could be promising...might investigate that a bit more. Though an R34 is still sexier IMO. But that's my opinion.

I could always just modify an Imprezza. Lighter than a skyline no doubt, and forms the basis of the Murtaya.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> Can you share more with us about the AWD drive and how it feels on the road?
> 
> Is the controller turned up to 100%, meaning are you putting 1000A to the warp9 at launch? have you timed any of your 0-60's?
> 
> Are you using the stock manual transmission? Have you had to replace anything?


I kept the clutch setup (new clutch though) and OEM transaxle.

Since there is no idle, you start with the clutch out - typically I would start and use 3rd gear in the city, only using 2nd if you want a fast start.

I use 46x200AH Thunderskys, and use the full 1000A from the Zilla (5C seems okay with these cells - very little sag). It pulls nicely out of the gate, but once the motor reach its max voltage, then the acceleration falls off - peppy but not earth moving. 0-60 is approx 10 seconds - not a rocket, but better then the 148 HP ICE - I have not played much to improve this... Starts strong (feels like a V6) but finishes slow... Good top end - faster than OEM.

I have not broken anything (knock on wood) and the OEM setup is holding up well - no clutch slipping, nothing unusual yet... Seems like a nice balanced setup, and I do not think the OEM setup could handle much more...

Fun to drive, never chirps tires, smooth all around - a real blast in winter (I use Nokian winter tires - highly recommended).


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## Scooby (Oct 22, 2009)

Go for the Scoob  

I'm also dreamin' about converting one, when I got the money and knowledge to do this!!

You've seen these guy's??
Really old page and information but they kicked some asses 
http://proev.com/ Electric Imp Project ...

I really would like to see a Scoob with crodrivers power oO ^^ let's crack some diffs 

I would like to use 2 motors one on the back diff and one in the front with the same gear ratio like the diff!! 

but first i need money then ... we'll see. Just a poor dreamin' student 

@ gdirwin
but when it works that well to use the stock gearbox and one electric motor!! Maybe also a route to go! hmm 

Greets Scoob


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