# Planning a 1999 Chevy 18ft step van conversion.



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

Hello all, 
I am new to this forum and already have an 18ft step van. I have been doing a lot of research as of recently and I have found the rabbit hole goes deeper than I thought (of course). 
So, it seems not a lot has been done with commercial vans or trucks in the way of electric conversions, at least not comprehensive ones for a diy install that havent been engineered from the ground up. 
So before I go crazy searching and searching for the technologies to meet my desires I am hoping some can help me put my desires into a more realistic frame. So here's my rather ambitious over goal for the project: 

Convert a chevy p30 18ft step van into an electrically powered semi-permanent mobile home with a 100 mile driving range at about 50 mph utilizing regenerative braking and solar pv cells on the roof. The van weighs about 14,000 lbs. I want to engineer this with maximum efficiency in all categories from weight reduction to cost but I'm ultimately willing to spend as much time and money as needed to complete this admittedly absurd project. 

Any reference points?


----------



## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

You might want to research the Battronic step van from the 70's. They occasionally come up for sale on eBay. They had a top speed that was pretty low though, like 35 mph IIRC, but decent range for such a big heavy vehicle: like maybe 40 miles. That was on plain lead/acid.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Let's see, poor aero, lots of weight, and long range, how much can you spend on this? It can be done, it will cost a lot. Regen and solar won't do a whole lot for you especially during steady driving.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You might take a look at this van, he claims 500 wh/mi, which would mean a 50Kwh pack for 100 miles, if you drained the pack completely, $20K or so.
http://www.evalbum.com/1102


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

Hmm, it seems a lot of the technology required to do this is very much in development though for a lot of money and weight I could get all the batteries I need.
The solar cells would only be used to power electronics in the truck, not for propulsion. 
Another way to engineer this project is to use fewer batteries which a much shorter range if I could recharge them quickly. If i'm traveling around for fun I could stop every 50 mi or so and wait an hour or two to keep going. I can get down like that.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Another way to go would be with a tow behind generator. Leave it home for shorter trips. Would need to be a pretty good sized genset though.


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

ha ha, yeah, I would like to avoid it though. I'm already having "what have done thoughts!" and pondering making it a hybdrid (currently 5.7l v8, I know, not even a diesel) and using generators. 
I'm going to see this through though. Going all electric. 
I have seen thundersky's all electric 30,000lb gvw buses accomplish about 55mph with about 90 mile range. My truck is a little less than half that weight. 

So using this as a reference with limited info about how the bus is designed (battery amount, set up, materials etc. ) From it specs page here : http://www.thunder-sky.com/products_en.asp?fid=71&fid2=75
how many batteries do you think this uses with its batteries here: 
http://www.thunder-sky.com/products_en.asp?fid=66&fid2=70 

Im a little confused about the voltages the motor uses ( I think its 420v- 700v??). Using these 3v batteries would require over 200 batteries for 700v, no? So I split this half could I do this with about 100? 

I think i'm a little lost. I'm willing to sacrifice any convenience I can to make this possible; I mean, thats why I bought a step van instead of an rv to start. Im planning to live in this and roam aimlessly, honestly. I work as chef and bar tend and hop around cities every year or so. I figure if I cut and out rent and high transportation costs I can spend more time playing music and things I love rather than cooking. I am very committed to my way of life and I am willing to pay a lot of money into making it sustainable. Besides, it will pay itself back much faster when you cut out thousands in rent (I live in boston).


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

From the PFD on the site they are using 156 700Ah cells, 2.6V discharged, 3.2 nominal, 4.0V fully charged. That gives 156 x 3.2 = 500 Volts x 700Ah = 350,000 watt hours, 350 Kilowatt hours. 350,000 wh divided by 186 miles range = 1882 wh/mi, which is horrible, but what you'd expect from a bus that size. Figure around .40 cents per wh including shipping, the pack they are using would cost around $140,000. Realistically you will probably be using closer to the van that I linked at 500wh/mi, lets say 700wh/mi for safety. Might be able to calculate actual usage from the mileage you currently get. Anyway, if we use 700wh/mi and 50 miles range we get a 35 kwh pack, x .40 cents = $14,000 Of course you don't want to use every bit of your pack so you'd want to us a larger pack than that.


----------



## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

Here are some actual figures of my setup.
I drive a 4000# S10 that has a 30KWH LA battery pack, which for their sake I only discharge to 50% DOD most of the time. To recharge the pack it takes 8-10 hrs and calculates to ~600WH/mile. The utility here charges $0.137 per KWH (~8 cents per mile)
Folks that drive trucks (S10, Ranger, etc) of this size get 30-40miles per charge. Your van is 3-4 times the weight even before adding batteries and is as aerodynamic as a brick. Just what is the battery capacity needed to push it down the road and what HP size motor(s) will it take? Multiple motors require multiple (and expensive) controllers. How many hrs will it take to recharge? Huge chargers. What is the voltage/amperage available at this recharging station? Will a campground charge extra? I remember some wanting to electrify their RV, but we old-timers of this forum don’t hear from them anymore. Ever wonder why?
It is not that semis are not electrified, because this forum has had previous links to some commercially built ones used on docks and local city driving. It is that most of us here try to keep things light and simple. If you expect to save money driving electric, I seriously doubt it. In my opinion, that 5.7L looks better all the time.


----------



## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

I concur with the overall consensus that you will have a hard time coming up with a 100 mile range EV conversion of a 14000llb GVW, 18 foot step van without spending a LOT of money. 

If you must pursue it, Your best bet would be to find a trolley bus drivetrain, and substitute a lot of batteries for the boom. 600VDC I think is what they run off of. That would be roughly 200 lithium cells. 

You're a cook right? How about a WVO biodiesel conversion? (either full, or electric hybrid) You should have first dibs access to the raw material. Put the refinery onboard the truck, and add a bumper sticker "will work for grease". 

If you wanted to go hybrid, you could then put in an EV drivetrain good for 35-40mph and 20-30 miles for in city hops, and put a couple of KW of solar on that nice flat roof to keep it charged. Still expensive but a warp 13, zilla and 15 to 20KwH usable battery capacity would probably do it since you are keeping the speeds down.

That's where I'd go if I were trying to keep such a vehicle off grid as much as possible.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

CPLTECH said:


> To recharge the pack it takes 8-10 hrs and calculates to ~600WH/mile.


 That seems high, is that from the wall, or actual driving usage? What type of driving, steady, stop and go, mixed?


> Multiple motors require multiple (and expensive) controllers.


I think a single Warp13 and Soliton or Zilla 2k would do it.


----------



## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

JRP3 said:


> That seems high, is that from the wall, or actual driving usage? What type of driving, steady, stop and go, mixed?quote]
> 
> Metered at the wall. 18-19KWH per 28-30 miles.
> Mixed.


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

It seems a hybrid is the best solution, I guess. 

So I now have a new route, I also have an old motorcycle who's carb just rotted to shit but the everything else is tip-top. Im thinking, convert the step-van to a hybrid and make my motorcycle fully electric, carry in the back. Ill park the big piece of shit outside city limits and use the motorcycle to get around from there. 

So my next question; should I start a new thread?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Don't see why, the electrical side is still an EV, even if it's corrupted with an ICE


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

CPLTECH said:


> Metered at the wall. 18-19KWH per 28-30 miles.
> Mixed.


OK that seems more reasonable, though still higher than I'd expect. With 85% charging efficiency that gives about 510wh/mi actual.


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

Does anyone know of any good websites or books on diy hybrid conversions? From what i'm understanding at base level its manageable to do on most vehicles and is much more affordable than full electric. Average increases seem to be in the 20-50% range. At 12 mi a gallon I would need to get at least 50%. 
Does anyone think its possible to get 50 mpg out of this? 

I have a 1979 Honda CB-650 in good condition. Im looking to get between 50-75 mi range. Anyone have something similar I can use some statistics from to size up my own conversion? 

Thanks for help so far. I know I am totally the new person to this shouting "im going to do the impossible!" but I really appreciate it. Its hard to find information about these things much less info backed with experience.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I assume you're looking to do a parallel hybrid, where you still have an ICE driving the wheels, and add an electric motor to the drive train, as opposed to serial hybrid where the electric motor is always driving the vehicle with the ICE only used as a generator? Easiest would be to use a TransWarp11 behind the transmission, though it's going to be working hard without the benefit of the transmission on such a heavy vehicle.
For the bike, search www.evalbum.com for examples, maybe start a thread in the bike section here. There is also http://elmoto.net/


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

So I have found a few companies that sell complete hybrid engines. It might be interesting make to mount a new engine onto the chassis. 

Do you think it would be easier to buy a pre-made hybrid engine or retrofit it for the vehicle? I wonder if there is a way to use the v8 as the generator?


----------



## meanderingthemaze (Jan 25, 2010)

I have toyed with some fantasies of the cross country trip with a range extended vehicle. Who hasn't? I guess the conclusion I came to would be to design an EV truck that could tow a trailer of that size that would house a large generator and enough space for a bed and basic storage.

So, that way you could detach the rig and drive around town without lugging the extra weight. But then when you need to "move", you'd have the generator to get you where you need to go. But if you're lugging a trailer, you have to engineer the truck to handle that kind of towing capacity.

Good luck, if you make a breakthroughs, please share them here!


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

yossarian said:


> I wonder if there is a way to use the v8 as the generator?


Probably, but I suspect it would be overkill. A smaller motor running at a constant speed would be more efficient as a generator.


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

Ok, So now I am thinking using an all electric motor (WarP 13 looks pretty good) with a smaller diesel generator. How many batteries do you think something like that would require? Besides, if its all electric, if some quantum leap in battery technology is made or if nanosolar technology is ever sold to consumers I might one day be able to make it full electric.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What sort of battery only range do you want? I think 156 volts would be a minimum, so at least 48 cells. The size of the cells will determine how far you go. Let's figure on 800 wh/mi energy usage.


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

Think I can run a diesel generator converted to run on vegetable oil/grease? Then use that for to charge the batteries and run the engine?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sure, as long as you size everything correctly. This is all possible, but it's also a rather complicated build to get it right. To get any efficiency you want to maximize your battery only range since running from the generator will be less efficient than charging from the grid.


----------



## yossarian (Jun 10, 2010)

What do you think about hydraulic hybrids?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Not worth the effort. Where does the energy come from?


----------



## Mini Donuats (6 mo ago)

yossarian said:


> Hello all,
> I am new to this forum and already have an 18ft step van. I have been doing a lot of research as of recently and I have found the rabbit hole goes deeper than I thought (of course).
> So, it seems not a lot has been done with commercial vans or trucks in the way of electric conversions, at least not comprehensive ones for a diy install that havent been engineered from the ground up.
> So before I go crazy searching and searching for the technologies to meet my desires I am hoping some can help me put my desires into a more realistic frame. So here's my rather ambitious over goal for the project:
> ...


Any update on if you ended up doing this?


----------

