# New VW EV tune up



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Lead Acid batteries do have a break in period, for the first 50 or so charge cycles you need to take it easy on them. 

My First EV was a 1996 Honda Civic with 96v 170AH US8VGC-XC. in theory I would have had 32 miles range, but in practice 20 miles was the more reliable. Once you drain past the 50% Depth of Charge point the performance drops like a rock. And I did not do highway, 35-45 MPH was my normal commute speed.

What you should do is keep you AMP draw under 250 AMPs and slowly drive say 12 miles, charge, then drive 13 miles, charge, etc.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

La Dignidad said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I just built a 68 VW EV. I am having some problems/confusion with the programming of the controller so I wonder it anyone can give me advice on this issue.
> 
> ...


I would lower the minimum battery voltage, lead is going to sag especially at lower SOC. One of the lead experts should be able to give you a number, but I can say with my limited lead experience 90v is too high if that is your "under load" voltage. If that is your no load voltage, what is the under load voltage?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

La Dignidad said:


> ...
> I used a NetGain Impulse 9 motor, Soliton Jr. controller and 12, 8V golf cart batteries for a total of 96 volts with 165 Ah.
> ...
> 2. Do I have the setting wrong on the controller so that it is unnecessarily limiting my speed. When I start out I can go 65 - 70 mph but after a while I can only go 35 mph (I generally drive about 45 - 50 mph using about 100 - 130 Ah. I have the minimum battery voltage set at 90V. Is this a good setting or should I go lower.


That is too high for lead-acid. Your minimum voltage at zero current should be set to something like 6-7V per 8V battery (ie - 72 to 84V for your 96V nominal pack). The minimum voltage at full current can be set to whatever level of punishment you feel like subjecting your pack to, but in no case is there any benefit in setting this to less than half the nominal voltage (it's a law of physics that says so).



La Dignidad said:


> 3. I am having some problems connecting the controller to my computer. Yesterday I did it 3 times with no problems but today it won't connect. Any advice on this?...


This is a known issue that is actually mentioned in the manual. There is a bug in the firmware of the chip we use for Ethernet which has been there for 4+ years and which the manufacturer does not seem to care to fix. We don't have access to the firmware on this chip so we can't fix it ourselves, and changing to a different chip would make it difficult to maintain backwards compatibility of the code henceforth. 

Just cycle power to the controller if the web page (or logger) hangs, and try not to scroll down the page until it has finished loading. For some reason, that really drives the Ethernet chip crazy.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks to all of the helpful responses. It will take me a while to understand the joo-joo of all this electrical magic. I don't really want to take the batteries below 50% DOD on a regular basis but I have to figure out how to set the controller so that it doesn't slow me down too much before I get to that point. So - based on some of your input I have reset the controller to:

Minimum battery volts at no current - 72
Minimum battery volts at full current - 58
Maximum battery current - 380 amps (my fuse is 400 amps)
Maximum motor volts - 115
Maximum motor current - 600 amps (probably can't go that high if battery max is 380 amps) 

I will try that for a while. I just don't want to adjust the figures to suit my desires and then wind up wearing the batteries out really quickly. But it is kind of weird to get used to because my dash gauge was telling me that I had 60% left on my batteries but the voltage was telling me a different story. I guess I might have to calibrate the gauge.

The gauge is also telling me that I am only using 100 amps or so while driving on flat ground at 48 mph. So I am way below the figure of 250 amps but the amps don't seem to be going as far as I think they should. I know there are things like battery sag and Phukerts effect (not sure of that spelling) but it is interesting to see how things actually work in the real world as opposed to how they work on paper.

I'll take my car on another test run tomorrow and see how the new settings work. Please fell free to add comments or give advice on those controller settings or anything else.

I was able to connect my computer to the controller. Not sure what I did except I went in and did a disk cleanup to remove stored pages and temp files.

So what about those gas shocks? I want to raise the rear end about three inches but don't want to waste money if they won't work.

Can't wait to take my car on another drive!!!


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Today I drove 15 miles with 3 stops. I noticed that the pack voltage came up, or recovered, each time I let it rest. I started with a full charge of 103.1 volts. The controller still limited my speed on the last 2 miles home even with the new lower voltage settings. I should have had plenty of amps left. Maybe it was limiting the amps because the controller might have been getting warm although I was only using about 100 amps as I drove. I am not using liquid cooling at this time because I don't want a bunch of devices robbing my electricity.

I got home after the 15 miles and the dash unit said that I still had 57.5% of the battery power left. After setting a few minutes the gauge said the the voltage had recovered to 100 volts which I think would indicate about 60-65% battery capacity.

So things are going well and I'm making progress in figuring out the controller settings and the range. I haven't heard any more comments from the people who previously commented so I don't know if I am posting correctly on this forum so that people see my comments. If you see these postings and have any advice on what I'm doing I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Mine sag nearly 20% from peak when mostly full. When sag gets over 30% I've gone too far.

Lead always recovers some when sitting, but most of the apparent voltage will be superficial. Mine can get up to full voltage sitting at work on a hot day.


I've heard adjustable gas shocks are good. I went with cheap empi coilovers and they're crap.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

I was actually just looking at your car on the EV album site. Very nice. What a coincidence. So, if I understand what you are saying, a 20% sag from peak on a 96 volt system would be 103 volts minus about 20volts = 80-83 volts and a 30% sag would be about 70 volts. Am I understanding you correctly? Is that under load? Does that mean that I should keep the controller setting under that lower limit?

I bought some of those coil over shocks and everything looked great when I loaded all the batteries until I started rolling and then they went lower and lower. The car handles and brakes just fine but it looks kind of low. I may try some of the adjustable gas/air shocks. What have you done on your car?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

La Dignidad said:


> I was actually just looking at your car on the EV album site. Very nice. What a coincidence. So, if I understand what you are saying, a 20% sag from peak on a 96 volt system would be 103 volts minus about 20volts = 80-83 volts and a 30% sag would be about 70 volts. Am I understanding you correctly? Is that under load? Does that mean that I should keep the controller setting under that lower limit?
> 
> I bought some of those coil over shocks and everything looked great when I loaded all the batteries until I started rolling and then they went lower and lower. The car handles and brakes just fine but it looks kind of low. I may try some of the adjustable gas/air shocks. What have you done on your car?


If you can configure your controller, yes you should have the low voltage cut back below that sag otherwise when you hit the throttle hard you will cause the controller to cut back limiting your power. Not what you want. But you also don't want your pack to go below a specified voltage static so you protect your cells. Being that you are less than full more than your pack is full (while driving) you will be better off bottom balancing your cells. 

I have my controller set well below the sag. You also need to take into account the voltage drop that occurs while driving too. I have set my low voltage cut back while under load to around 1.58 volts. If the pack does not bounce back to 2.9 or above I want the controller to cut the current back while under load and then I know its time to park and charge. I am going to change my cutback voltage to 2 volts each while under load.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

La Dignidad said:


> I was actually just looking at your car on the EV album site. Very nice. What a coincidence. So, if I understand what you are saying, a 20% sag from peak on a 96 volt system would be 103 volts minus about 20volts = 80-83 volts and a 30% sag would be about 70 volts. Am I understanding you correctly? Is that under load? Does that mean that I should keep the controller setting under that lower limit?
> 
> I bought some of those coil over shocks and everything looked great when I loaded all the batteries until I started rolling and then they went lower and lower. The car handles and brakes just fine but it looks kind of low. I may try some of the adjustable gas/air shocks. What have you done on your car?


Yes, your batteries and pack voltage are different from mine, so the numbers you'll want to set will be different, but should be in the same ballpark.

I pull ~200A on acceleration, your typical pull (and sag) may be higher with the lower voltage.

My coilovers hold the weight fine, but are way too stiff. I ordered them thinking they would support 700 lbs ea, but when I got them found it was 700 lbs EXTRA. So my bug is probably around 2800 lbs but the shocks are rated up to 5k, and even on the lowest setting are very stiff.

The only other upgrade I've done was disc brakes on front, which I'm also not fond of (great stopping power but always slight drag), though I'd also like to go to type 3 drums on the rear.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

More updates. Today I cruised 24 miles. Two miles at 45 mph and the rest at 30-35 mph. I was at 42% DOD so I might have been able to wring 28 - 30 miles total out of the batteries but I'm still taking it easy on them while they break in. I notice that my alignment is actually towed out about 3/8" so I imagine that makes a little bit of drag. I'll adjust that soon and continue to check the range. I think that I actually may achieve a steady 30 mile range.

That would be great because I really only need a 23 mile range for my farthest driving so that means that I may only discharge my batteries to about 40% DOD and therefor get more life out of them.

I live out in a rural farming area and can drive mostly on small farm roads. 
That means that for the most part I can relax and drive 30-35 mph and never have to put the brakes on too hard. I think that I will stick with the drum brakes to have less drag. 

I also want to report that I bought some Monroe Load Leveler Air Shocks and they didn't do a thing to maintain vehicle height. Not a thing! I put the coil-over shocks back on and I believe that I will adjust the torsion bars a notch or two when I get the ambition.

One last comment for now. I believe that heat buildup in my Soliton Jr. motor controller is causing it to cut back unnecessarily on power. I am not using the liquid cooling at this time but I believe that I'm going to order the parts and see if it helps.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

La Dignidad said:


> One last comment for now. I believe that heat buildup in my Soliton Jr. motor controller is causing it to cut back unnecessarily on power. I am not using the liquid cooling at this time but I believe that I'm going to order the parts and see if it helps.


You don't need to guess why Soliton Jr is cutting back. Connect a Laptop to Jr and record the activity during a "cutback". Then RTFM to pinpoint the cause and solution.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion. That's great to know but I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean that I should drive with the laptop hooked up until the controller cuts back on power? Or should I hook up the computer after I get back from a drive? And what does RTFM mean? How do I do that?


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## Ektus (Feb 15, 2011)

La Dignidad said:


> And what does RTFM mean? How do I do that?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Oh, I see, very interesting. I didn't recognize it because I personally don't use initialisms. If I have something to say I prefer to just state it instead of hiding it with initials and trying to make a rude or obscene statement cute, funny or socially acceptable.

In regard to manuals. With the kit that I bought there were a lot of components. Some of these items came with manuals, some had incomplete or confusing instructions, and some came without any manual at all. In the case of the Soliton Jr., I did get a manual but it didn't include Appendix B and I found some of the explanations to be confusing. So I thought that I would use this forum to get help or advice from people who had already gone through this process.

I am making progress and soon I will be familiar with the components and all of their uses and options and then I can also make arrogant and condescending comments to new people to the forum. Not!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

La Dignidad said:


> I believe that heat buildup in my Soliton Jr. motor controller is causing it to cut back unnecessarily on power. I am not using the liquid cooling at this time but I believe that I'm going to order the parts and see if it helps.


You MUST use either the water cooling or a large finned heat sink on your controller so it stays cool. I am still surprised at how many people still DON'T put heat sinks on their controllers. The fat aluminum base is NOT a heat sink, its a place to mount one. If like the Soliton it comes with provision to connect water cooling and you should take full advantage of that. If its like a Curtis you need to add a hefty heat sink to pull the heat away or connect it to a large aluminum base much larger than the base of the controller. Suggested for air cooling is a large finned heat sink with fan. Or in your case, the best is water cooling. USE IT.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

One of the problems with the EV conversion process is finding reliable, real world information. I was told by more than one person, who should be knowledgeable about these things, that the heavy aluminum housing of the Soliton Jr. was an adequate heat sink and I was also told by people that a 2500 lb car wouldn't need the liquid cooling. So I started out with those assumptions. Now I'm learning differently and I appreciate the forum and answers such as yours so that new people can wade through sea of information/disinformation.


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

People just have different standards on thing such as "enough speed" or "enough acceleration" and what is "normal driving" etc.

Check the controller logs first to verify that it indeed is a case of thermal cutback before jumping to further conclusions.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

La Dignidad said:


> ...I was told by more than one person, who should be knowledgeable about these things, that the heavy aluminum housing of the Soliton Jr. was an adequate heat sink and I was also told by people that a 2500 lb car wouldn't need the liquid cooling...


You didn't ask me, nor did you send an email to our support address. Not recently, anyway.

Will liquid cooling the controller solve your performance problem? Maybe, maybe not. You have a fairly weak battery pack - 96V of lead-acid - so that could be the cause. You might have a poor connection in your battery pack, which not only saps performance but can also be a serious fire hazard. Also, with just 96V you don't really want to run a lot of brush advance on the motor. You could be expecting too much out of the controller and maybe should have bought its bigger brother, instead. Or, yes, it could be that your controller is running hot, as a result of the mounting location, driving style, etc.

You will only get a definitive answer by running the logger program which is included with the software update package that is available from the Support/Downloads section of our website (NB - if you are running Windows Vista or later you will have to give logger explicit permission to access both private and public networks the first time you run it).

Connect a laptop with an Ethernet port to the controller and drive around until you feel that the performance is declining, then start logger to collect performance (don't run logger the entire time because it collects a huge amount of data and the log file will become very large very quickly).

You can then send the log file to our support email and ask for help with your issue, or you can show some intrepid DIY spirit and load the log up in a text editor or a spreadsheet program (space/tab delimiting is used, so it is both human readable and easy to import into a spreadsheet).

BTW - 2500# is the top end of the recommended weight range for the Jr (one of the FAQs on our website).


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

La Dignidad said:


> I was told by more than one person, who should be knowledgeable about these things, that the heavy aluminum housing of the Soliton Jr. was an adequate heat sink


Yes it is. The Solitons are constructed for not needing additional heat sinks, fans, contactors, precharge circuits etc. It's all built in so you will gain nothing by trying to add for example a heat sink or fans because the built in ones are placed exactly where they belong; right on top of the heat generating components. 

If you, by running logger, can determine that the controller is actually running hot, water cooling or upgrading are your two options.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Chief Electron Herder and Swedish Programming Dude at Evnetics:
Thanks for your replies. You're right. I didn't ask you and I'm glad that you are reading my posts and responding. 

I'm not a dummy. I built this car very easily and it worked as soon as I turned it on. The only problem I'm having is fine tuning the controller setup. It's probably working exactly as it is supposed to. I'm just not a great computer guy and I'm still figuring out how to do the things that you tell me to do.

I did download the program from your website and I have programmed the controller. I think that I am figuring out the process. If I understand correctly you are telling me to buy a longer ethernet cable so that I can run it from the controller and into the passenger side window to a computer on the passenger seat. I then start driving and when I notice a cutback in power I then click on the logger_1-5_2.exe file in the program and it will load up with data from the controller. Is that right? I can then save that file and send it to you for analysis. Is that correct?

I don't think that it is a cable problem. This morning I did a little test drive and at first it had lots of power. I saw it drawing up to 420 amps on acceleration. It felt very peppy. So I figure that the cables must be connected well to carry that current. But then I turned around to come home after only 3 miles and the controller started limiting the power to 150 and then to 120 amps (and declining). But I still had 80 - 85% of battery power left.

I have the controller set at:
Min bat volt - no current - 72V
Min bat volt - full current - 50V
Max bat current-----------500A
Max motor volt (default)---170V
Max motor current --------600A
Max motor power (default)-100kW
Slew rate (default) --------500A/s 

I really don't want to accelerate quickly or to go fast. Usually I drive about 35 mph. But I want to be able to go 45 or 50 mph occasionally if I get on a stretch of road with traffic.

Anyway, I'll get a longer ethernet cable and try to read the logs and then get back to you. Thanks for your help


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

What is your battery voltage sagging to during these accelerations where you are experiencing limited power?


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Before the controller starts to limit, the battery voltage sags to maybe 88V during acceleration but then the controller starts to limit it to 90V and 92V or around there. I have the controller set at 72V with no load and 50V under load so I don't know why it's limiting it up around 90V. I'm sure there's something simple going on but haven't figured it out yet.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

La Dignidad said:


> ...I did download the program from your website and I have programmed the controller. I think that I am figuring out the process. If I understand correctly you are telling me to buy a longer ethernet cable so that I can run it from the controller and into the passenger side window to a computer on the passenger seat. I then start driving and when I notice a cutback in power I then click on the logger_1-5_2.exe file in the program and it will load up with data from the controller. Is that right? I can then save that file and send it to you for analysis. Is that correct?


Yep. You have correctly understood the process. Logger will automatically save a text file called "logger.txt" in the same folder it was executed from and you can either load that text file into Notepad (etc.) just to look at it, or into a spreadsheet program (Open Office, Libre Office, etc.) to perform math operations on it (e.g. - multiply motor current [MotorC] and duty cycle [PWM] to get battery current).




La Dignidad said:


> I don't think that it is a cable problem. This morning I did a little test drive and at first it had lots of power. I saw it drawing up to 420 amps on acceleration. It felt very peppy. So I figure that the cables must be connected well to carry that current. But then I turned around to come home after only 3 miles and the controller started limiting the power to 150 and then to 120 amps (and declining). But I still had 80 - 85% of battery power left.


This could be from the battery pack sagging, or from the controller getting too hot - both will behave similarly - so only a log file will find the proverbial smoking gun here.


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## La Dignidad (Nov 9, 2012)

Eureka!!! I finally figured out (thank to help from the forum, especially the Evnetics guys) how to open the logger text while I was driving and the mystery is solved. For those who are interested, or for other newbies, this is what I found out:

I drove 10 miles to town this morning with an outside temp of 75 degrees and the controller never cut power or overheated. It ran at about 45 celsius (113 F)

I drove home the same ten miles a couple of hours later with an outside temp of 98 degrees and the controller started overheating and cutting power within about 4 miles. It got up to a max of 87.5 C (189.5 F).

At this point the controller was limiting me to about 30mph and holding steady on the temp. I had installed a temporary 12v fan by the controller and I stopped and turned it on. The temp didn't really come down but now the controller permitted me to go about 40 mph.

So, in conclusion, the controller is working great. My car is working great. The batteries are working great. All I need to do is limit my drives to early in the day until I can order some parts to install the liquid cooling.

Does anybody know of a good source for a cooling package?


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