# Zilla 1k questions



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Tedktis said:


> I have the opportunity to purchase a "never used" older Zilla 1k with hairball, no 1 year warranty for $2k. Are the older models a higher quality? I see I can buy a new one with warranty for $5 less. What is a fair price for an older un-used Zilla 1k and what are the differences with older models(if any)?


An important piece of info is what version/model LV, HV or EHV
That has a big impact on it's value.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I don't see any reason to pay more than new price for a used Zilla Z1k-LV. There is little difference between the Zilla controllers except the stenciling on the case ("by Manzanita Micro", or "by Cafe Electric", or "by EV Components") and the software versions of the Zilla and Hairball.

There are very few used Zilla Z1k controllers for sale so it is hard to put a market price on them. They used to sell for new price when they weren't available, but clearly it has to be less now that they are back in production. I've considered selling my Z1k-LV (my buggy is running a Z1k-HV) with updated firmware but couldn't find comperables to price it.

rwaudio brings up a good point. Based on the price info you listed I just assumed it was a Z1k-LV. The Zilla controller has been available in 3 voltage levels (156, 300, or 375 volts) and 2 amp levels (1000 amp or the larger 2000 amp models.) There are also Hairball options. New, a Zilla could range from from $1975 to $5190.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Tedktis said:


> I have the opportunity to purchase a "never used" older Zilla 1k with hairball, no 1 year warranty for $2k. Are the older models a higher quality? I see I can buy a new one with warranty for $5 less. What is a fair price for an older un-used Zilla 1k and what are the differences with older models(if any)?


As others pointed out the version -LV, -HV, or -EHV make a difference as does the options in the Hairball. For example, I have a -HV with the -AP option, a HEPA, and Palm III for sale in that price range yet it cost me over $2800. It is a used one that Otmar upgraded for me then my situation changed so I have never been able to use it.

As for what is a fair price: what ever buyer and seller agree on. If you mean what are they selling for, that is a different question. I've had mine advertised for a while now and have had some low ball offers. I would have had it sold quite a while ago if shipping to Australia wasn't so expensive. For the package I have I'm asking $2100 right now. If you look at http://www.evtradinpost.com there are other variations of the Zilla for sale which should give you an idea of what people are asking for them.


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

I found a "never used" older Zilla 1k-LV(156V) with Hairball 2 still in box. $1540 shipped.  Now how to wire it....


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

This page will have the documents you need. The only pack voltage connections on the hairball are those 2 precharge wires that go on the terminal at the end. I've never seen the pack negative and shunt wire terminals used (I think it is one of the future features that has not been implemented.) The hairball can be programmed with just the +12v and 12v ground wires installed. You will need liquid cooling, though you can drive without it (the controller will cut back the current to protect itself.) I required limited liquid cooling (thermo-syphon) in a 1200 lb. buggy.


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

EVfun said:


> This page will have the documents you need. The only pack voltage connections on the hairball are those 2 precharge wires that go on the terminal at the end. I've never seen the pack negative and shunt wire terminals used (I think it is one of the future features that has not been implemented.) The hairball can be programmed with just the +12v and 12v ground wires installed. You will need liquid cooling, though you can drive without it (the controller will cut back the current to protect itself.) I required limited liquid cooling (thermo-syphon) in a 1200 lb. buggy.


It came with the manual, but i was just looking for a little more information/detail or even a video. Thanks. Does one need a shunt for this set-up?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

A shunt is not needed. I've never seen any wires connected to the shunt terminals on the hairball. 

The only wires needed for the hairball are connections 1-7 on the top row, the 2 precharge wires on the end, and then the cable that goes between the hairball and zilla. The only connections needed to plug in a serial cable and adjust the hairball settings are +12 volt power and ground (pins 1 and 2.)


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

EVfun said:


> A shunt is not needed. I've never seen any wires connected to the shunt terminals on the hairball.
> 
> The only wires needed for the hairball are connections 1-7 on the top row, the 2 precharge wires on the end, and then the cable that goes between the hairball and zilla. The only connections needed to plug in a serial cable and adjust the hairball settings are +12 volt power and ground (pins 1 and 2.)


Sweet!  So I will still need a contactor, main disconnect(battery) and a high voltage fuse correct? What about a DC/DC converter? The wiring diagram uses a single 12 V battery for low voltage system/accesories. Could I go with a DC/DC converter instead, and use the same SLI, key and start connections?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Tedktis said:


> Sweet!  So I will still need a contactor, main disconnect(battery) and a high voltage fuse correct? What about a DC/DC converter? The wiring diagram uses a single 12 V battery for low voltage system/accesories. Could I go with a DC/DC converter instead, and use the same SLI, key and start connections?


You need a main contactor, it is powered by pin 5 on the hairball. You must install the Zilla supplied snubber (1.5KE24CA-T, supplied with the Zilla package) across the main contactor or the contactor driver inside the hairball will be damaged. The diode supplied with a SW200 contactor is not a suitable replacement. You need a suitable main pack fuse, the recommended types are listed in the manual. What you needs depends on your pack voltage.

You can use whatever powers the cars 12 volt system for the hairball connections. I use only a DC>DC converter in the buggy. If you drive without a 12v system battery and the DC>DC fails the car instantly shuts off and you don't even have hazard lights. 

The hairball ground wire must be short, I think 4 inches max is recommended, but mine is about 12 inches long as fiberglass cars don't have ground at the mounting screws (and I haven't had any problems.) The hairball has a constant 12v power connection (pin 2) and an ignition switched 12 volt connection (pin 3.) It also has a start switch input connection (pin 4) but that can be connected directly to pin 3 if you want. Some people hook pins 2 and 3 together and to ignition switched power but if you do that you have to wait a moment for the hairball to boot before you attempt to turn on the controller (before you apply power to pin 4.) Hairball pins 2 and 3 each need a 4 amp max fuse, these should be standard 12 volt automotive fuses.


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

EVfun said:


> You need a main contactor, it is powered by pin 5 on the hairball. You must install the Zilla supplied snubber (1.5KE24CA-T, supplied with the Zilla package) across the main contactor or the contactor driver inside the hairball will be damaged. The diode supplied with a SW200 contactor is not a suitable replacement. You need a suitable main pack fuse, the recommended types are listed in the manual. What you needs depends on your pack voltage.
> 
> You can use whatever powers the cars 12 volt system for the hairball connections. I use only a DC>DC converter in the buggy. If you drive without a 12v system battery and the DC>DC fails the car instantly shuts off and you don't even have hazard lights.
> 
> The hairball ground wire must be short, I think 4 inches max is recommended, but mine is about 12 inches long as fiberglass cars don't have ground at the mounting screws (and I haven't had any problems.) The hairball has a constant 12v power connection (pin 2) and an ignition switched 12 volt connection (pin 3.) It also has a start switch input connection (pin 4) but that can be connected directly to pin 3 if you want. Some people hook pins 2 and 3 together and to ignition switched power but if you do that you have to wait a moment for the hairball to boot before you attempt to turn on the controller (before you apply power to pin 4.) Hairball pins 2 and 3 each need a 4 amp max fuse, these should be standard 12 volt automotive fuses.


Yes I have the snubber, I will not use the other diode. Thanks for the warning. I just read the section on main pack fuses. Interesting point about the dc/dc converter vs 12 V battery. How do you keep the weather off your controller and motor? Do you have pics of your buggy? Great info.


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

Saw your buggy. Sweet ride! The rain doesn't get to your motor? What kind of range did you get with lead vs lithiums?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Thanks. I try not to drive it in the rain but I don't worry about the motor getting wet. They are quite water resistant. The previous 10 Optima pack weighed 400 lb. and gave me a 20 mile range. The current pack of 38 Thundersky 60 amp hour Lithium cells weigh 190 lb. and give me an easy 30 mile range. Actually, I managed 30 miles on a Lithium range test when the pack was only 32 cells. I have never tested the range since adding the 6 cells to bring the pack to 38.


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

EVfun said:


> Thanks. I try not to drive it in the rain but I don't worry about the motor getting wet. They are quite water resistant. The previous 10 Optima pack weighed 400 lb. and gave me a 20 mile range. The current pack of 38 Thundersky 60 amp hour Lithium cells weigh 190 lb. and give me an easy 30 mile range. Actually, I managed 30 miles on a Lithium range test when the pack was only 32 cells. I have never tested the range since adding the 6 cells to bring the pack to 38.


Impressive. Is that an ADC motor?


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