# Controller for greater than 144v



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I think Logisystems and Kelly have a 156 volt, but other than that I don't think there are any options for DC motor control. As of right now the Zilla isn't even available, and it looks like it might not be for some time. 

I know some of the Warp motors claim they can be used with 192 volts, but I believe someone said that they shouldn't be used past 156 volts.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

question:


Why do you need that high voltage? 


If you can't find a controller, lower the voltage and increase the current to achieve the same power.


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## Phatcraft (Dec 4, 2008)

I dont need 196 volts but I dident like the idea of running a controller at the ragged edge of its capabilities. Im building a work truck for my company and it needs to be robust. Im planning on warp 9 attached to a 5spd toyota pu. The truck well most likely be abused, overloaded and worked hard so I wanted a controller that could handle that. Any sugjestions for a candidate?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

What if you could find a stable, 156V 600A controller (for 1.5min), 300A continuous controller? USB programmable, contactor controller, dash light?


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## Phatcraft (Dec 4, 2008)

If it would take a full 156v and 300a and be reliable than yes that would be fine. Well 300a be enough to move a loaded pickup with a warp 9 motor?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

well, the thing is, you PULSE the 300A, you'll likely never have 300A continuous duty on the motor...maybe close to it with a fully loaded pickup though, but I don't have enough information.

Do a drag test, see what HP you need to accelerate to 50mph, and what kind of drag it has decelerating from that speed, clutch in.


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## 280z1975 (Oct 2, 2008)

frodus said:


> question:
> 
> 
> Why do you need that high voltage?
> ...


1) I would like to go with a higher voltage so the amp draw on the batteries is less (which I hope will lead to less 'wear' on them). Like you said, increase of current (demand on the batteries) with a lower voltage and you can achieve the same power. 

2) If you ever go LIFEO4 then the higher voltage will compensate for the voltage lag of the C discharge rate when you want to go hard (I am not speaking from experience, just from what I have read online, so if I am wrong, please correct me).

3) The higher voltage allows you to use lower amp-hour rated batteries, which opens up the choices you can use in your car. (but then you need the space for the higher voltage system)

4) I to want to use a controller a bit "overrated" for whatever set up I go with later next year. That way if I ever want to get into some spirited driving I know the controller can handle what I throw at it without going bust or the infamous "magic smoke".

As far as I know there are only two controllers for 144+. Logisystems and Raptor. The Raptor has very little information out there on the internet and i am not sure if they are still building them. The Zila's can be found, but they will be second hand or you will pay 3,000+ for them new on Ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Part...d=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65:13|39:1|240:1318

After reading the whole lot about contollers on this site I can say if they are available when i go to build I will buy a Zila. It may be twice the cost, but it's build to suit. Imagine building a computer with a slow processor, no matter all the cool things you added to it, it would still be slow, the contoller is the processor of the car. 

-Gregg-


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

280z1975 said:


> 1) I would like to go with a higher voltage so the amp draw on the batteries is less (which I hope will lead to less 'wear' on them). Like you said, increase of current (demand on the batteries) with a lower voltage and you can achieve the same power.
> 
> 2) If you ever go LIFEO4 then the higher voltage will compensate for the voltage lag of the C discharge rate when you want to go hard (I am not speaking from experience, just from what I have read online, so if I am wrong, please correct me).
> 
> ...


Exactly the answer I was looking for. Some people just say "I want 196V", but don't have many reasons to do so.

Lower current at higher voltages for the same power is nice. Unfortunately you get into IGBT world, and the voltage drop can increase. Zilla is about it, unless you go AC. Raptor's aren't made anymore.


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## dogstar74 (Dec 6, 2008)

Has anyone considered these guys? http://www.uqm.com/ I am not affiliated in any way with this company, I'm just really interested. I find it interesting that their small traction motors START at 250V. 

So if your budget isn't limited, then you may want to consider these guys. It looks like a package deal, motor and controller. 

Also, you may want to shoot over to metric mind and see what is available in the AC units. That's all I have to offer.

Aaron


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## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

Aaron, UQM is AC. Excellent units from all I hear though.


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## dogstar74 (Dec 6, 2008)

booksix said:


> Aaron, UQM is AC. Excellent units from all I hear though.


From what I read on the Website, they are VDC. Isn't that Volts DC? No where do they say they are AC. Again it's just what I've read, but I'm really a newbie at this. And yes they look like excellent quality work. Just $$$$$ for me.

Thanks.
Aaron


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## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

yeah, you are correct there! What that is most likely referring to is the input voltage that the inverter wants to see. Your battery string will be DC and the controller/inverter inverts it to AC voltage. Glad you added that so it could be cleared up!

And you're right, they are extremely pricey! I know a guy building an older Porsche with one. I saw it and he told me the specs and I just HAD to have one! But then I saw the price. But either way, I think I'm ok with a well built DC system to start!


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## dogstar74 (Dec 6, 2008)

Bummer on the expensive part. They do look like a "well oiled machine" certainly next level with the manufacturing from the website pics. I can see why you'd want one in a porsche. 

Thanks for the clarification of the AC vs DC thing. But It begs the question, would it be that much harder to use? I mean, as long as the controller and the motor were matched, then why should it be any harder than just plugging in the input current? Oh yeah, and running a liquid cooler line? I am reminded of metric mind's conversion. I'd probably have to give those pics a looksee again if I went that route. 

Thanks again for the Clarity!
Aaron


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

booksix said:


> And you're right, they are extremely pricey! I know a guy building an older Porsche with one. I saw it and he told me the specs and I just HAD to have one! But then I saw the price. But either way, I think I'm ok with a well built DC system to start!


What was the price? I know initially Phoenix Motorcars was going to use UQM along with Altairnano NanoSafe batteries but then switched to another motor supplier, supposedly with a smaller, more powerful motor.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

something like 25K$ for the traction motor i was researching...yah...and then people wonder whats holding back EVs....


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's about what I've heard AC Propulsion motors going for, though supposedly they'll go as low as $11k if you buy 100 or more  It's too bad because at $11k the ACP setup is a great price considering you get motor, controller, DC/DC converter, and charger all together.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> I think Logisystems and Kelly have a 156 volt, but other than that I don't think there are any options for DC motor control. As of right now the Zilla isn't even available, and it looks like it might not be for some time.
> 
> I know some of the Warp motors claim they can be used with 192 volts, but I believe someone said that they shouldn't be used past 156 volts.


Electrocraft does up to 192 volts and uses IGBT's unlike most others except the Zilla as I understand. His standard units go up to 500 amps (has 680 amp IGBT's limited to 500 amps) It will handle 500 amps for 30 seconds or so and 300 amps continuous (according to builder) He does not currently offer higher current models, but will build one for you if you want and 800 amp or 1000 amp unit. Darius sells his controllers for about half the going rate. His website doesn't do his products justice. I was at his shop yesterday. He sells a full line of EV controls including DC/DC, pots, chargers (PFC), and BMS and some other neat things too.

Cheers.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Electrocraft does up to 192 volts and uses IGBT's unlike most others except the Zilla as I understand. His standard units go up to 500 amps (has 680 amp IGBT's limited to 500 amps) It will handle 500 amps for 30 seconds or so and 300 amps continuous (according to builder) He does not currently offer higher current models, but will build one for you if you want and 800 amp or 1000 amp unit. Darius sells his controllers for about half the going rate. His website doesn't do his products justice. I was at his shop yesterday. He sells a full line of EV controls including DC/DC, pots, chargers (PFC), and BMS and some other neat things too.
> 
> Cheers.


Never heard of them. Link?


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Never heard of them. Link?


http://pages.interlog.com/~dgv/index.html 

Darius sells all the goodies. His website isn't so up to date. His current controller has bulkhead stud mounts for power connections and is 500 amp. His charger is power factor corrected with charge profiles for all battery chemistries. He has a BMS also, it is high priced but was done for lithium quite some time ago. He has DC/DC as well as pots and charge controllers for wind/solar/charge also. Rob (RKM) and I have been in contact with him for a few months. Rob checked some references as well. I visited him at his shop yesterday in Richmond Hill (Toronto burb). I think he is a stand up guy who will support his products. His prices are outstanding, except for the BMS.

Cheers.


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## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

So, if he's been around so long, why is it new here? Not to doubt, just curious! We need DC solutions, I'd love to hear some real world input. Any idea how much his 1000A controller is? Does it have any features like programmability, series/parallel switching, etc...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

booksix said:


> So, if he's been around so long, why is it new here? Not to doubt, just curious! We need DC solutions, I'd love to hear some real world input. Any idea how much his 1000A controller is? Does it have any features like programmability, series/parallel switching, etc...


His 500 amp unit is $895 if I recall correctly. He will build you an 800 amp for 1200 and a 1000 amp for 1400. Next year when he has a higher amp unit as a standard product (he has to increase his board size) it will be cheaper. His web site doesn't seem to show up in searches. RKM found him. He's a technical guy .. not a marketer.. that's for sure.

The acceleration profile is set in firmware... it is not programable.

Sorry guys I think I owe someone an appology. I just read this thread again. The 800 amp unit price should have been $1400 and the 1000 amp $1600. He may have added $50 for the overspeed protection.


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## mcgyver28117 (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: Raptor Controller for greater than 144v*

Actually Raptors are being built. They are also being built for high voltage applications.

Contact me off list for contact details.

Sincerely,
Ron 
Black Sheep Technology
www.black-sheep.us
704-500-6024


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> His 500 amp unit is $895 if I recall correctly. He will build you an 800 amp for 1200 and a 1000 amp for 1400. Next year when he has a higher amp unit as a standard product (he has to increase his board size) it will be cheaper. His web site doesn't seem to show up in searches. RKM found him. He's a technical guy .. not a marketer.. that's for sure.
> 
> The acceleration profile is set in firmware... it is not programable.
> 
> Sorry guys I think I owe someone an appology. I just read this thread again. The 800 amp unit price should have been $1400 and the 1000 amp $1600. He may have added $50 for the overspeed protection.


1000amp for 1600$ is still a deal thats what a 500amp Curtis costs...of course you are trading documented-reliability for the younger-fresher-untested (longterm) product...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> 1000amp for 1600$ is still a deal thats what a 500amp Curtis costs...of course you are trading documented-reliability for the younger-fresher-untested (longterm) product...


Ya, I'm looking fwd to, hopefully, a good product. I'm optimistic though. There is a lot of interest in this subject.... but you're right, it comes down to the performance. This guy has made hundreds of controllers though..... apparently. It's not like he is developing the first one. He's just not well known. We'll see.....


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Ya, I'm looking fwd to, hopefully, a good product. I'm optimistic though. There is a lot of interest in this subject.... but you're right, it comes down to the performance. This guy has made hundreds of controllers though..... apparently. It's not like he is developing the first one. He's just not well known. We'll see.....


Like i said before, I wish you much success DIYguy..Many people on the forums will buy his controller if he can get your advertised support of how good it is...I know i will be one of them...

Right now I am trying to source some Kostovs that can be built to handle the increased voltage I want to run using Electrocraft controllers....


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