# Reliant Robin going electric



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

The Netherlands has gotten quite serious about enforcing both safety and electrical emissions/immunity ("EMC") requirements in homebuilt EVs over the last few years so you might want to check on this BEFORE buying any components.


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

Yea I know, it's a big deal over here. Especially the (new) EMC requirement has a big impact, technical but also financial, they ask minimum of €1300,- for the test! I've check all the laws for building and certification of a privately build EV. It's not easy but I've decided to start building with everything I know in the back of my mind and then I'll see what's up when they judge it! 
For safety all the electronic parts need to be up to spec for the day it's being judged and the existing parts need to pass a regular APK (MOT). My car does not have the get a APK so it has not been judged in 36 years, so I'll have to get everything up to a proper standard. (about time, so no problem)

P.s. does anyone know something about a motor/controller passing the EMC test in the Netherlands, there are some (rebble) but I have not seen anyone with these components. (If it's been certified ones everyone can use it with those papers)


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Gerrit said:


> ...
> P.s. does anyone know something about a motor/controller passing the EMC test in the Netherlands, there are some (rebble) but I have not seen anyone with these components. (If it's been certified ones everyone can use it with those papers)


At some point my replies will inevitably look like a sales pitch, which I try hard to avoid, so I will simply direct you to Rebbl who does, indeed, sell EMC-compliant motors (Kostov) and controllers (mine - Evnetics).

Note that your budget just got totally blown away, but you can take some comfort in knowing that simply paying for an EMC test does not mean you will *pass* it. That is to say, you can expect to have to not only pay for this test multiple times, you will also have to pay a competent EMC compliance engineer to fix any issues found to achieve compliance. It is quite normal for this process to be iterative and therefore very expensive when all is said and done (as I recall, Rebbl ended up paying around 39.000 Euros to get our controllers through compliance, and they have a former compliance engineer on staff).


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

You're right, that would be comforting but for the price difference I can do about two tests and then I have exactly what I want. That amount of weight, volt and power is way to much for my small Robin 850 and I don't wanne blow my budget lol. 
But thanks for the reply! When I'm almost done with the conversion I'll look at the current tests and how I can make the best of it. Who know's what will change and who might already done the test with these products. 
In other words, I don't want to keep the law and tests from the joy of building it, realizing the dream and doing what I've researched to be best with this car and my wishes.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Hello Gerrit.

First of all I really like the Reliant Robin, it's a fun car!  Even more so when it'll be electric. Though I hope you can keep it on 3 wheels with all that torque from an electric motor! (unlike Jeremy Clarkson) 

Just going to share this with you since I'm in the same boat. I'm also from the Netherlands and in the process of converting a road legal quad bike to electric.

I originally also wanted to go with an Alltrax controller since they're pretty much perfect for such light vehicles, 72V 450A should be more than enough. But I don't think it'll be easy passing the EMC test with this controller since it doesn't have the needed certification. As Tesseract said Rebbl has paid a lot of money to get the Evnetics controllers approved, and they also had to modify the insides. I don't think 2 tests will be enough to get it approved.
I decided to go with the Evnetics Soliton Jr myself just to make sure that I will get it road approved without any extra costs. Seeing as Rebbl spent like 39.000 euros who knows how much money will be needed to get that Altrax approved. In my opinion it's better to spend that extra money for a controller that's certified. It won't be much fun when you have the car all ready and you won't be able to get it out on the road legally.

The Soliton also has a lot of extras which made the choice just that much easier for me. Built in contactors with precharge, many adjustable options and ofcourse the good support.  And yeah it may be a bit overpowered but because of that there's also a lot of room for upgrade if you'd ever want to. Weight and dimensions were kind of a problem for me as well but I just found a better place to mount it. I think in the end it'll be worth it, but it's your choice ofcourse.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Gerritt; With your Alltrax: I have a 7245 with max voltage set at 90, min at 60 and run 7x12v. If your motor will take it and you can fit the extra batteries in then it is cheap power


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## GW0DIV (Jan 3, 2011)

€1300 would buy you a decent 2nd hand spectrum analyser, €2600 would get you a steel shipping container and all the stuff to make it a faraday cage so you could make sure its clean before you pay for a test. Try and find local radio hams, they might have the necessary equipment an expertise. 

Rhys
GW0DIV


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## Tyn245GL (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi Gerrit,
For EMC compliant drive trains a couple of other options exist in The Netherlands, both are AC:
- you could check out the system sold by ZEVParts - they use it on 2CV's (light weight) so this could be a nice match with the Reliant! It is EMC compliant.
- you could look at the MES-DEA TIM600 inverter with a MES 200-series motor. This combination is also EMC compliant. But likely overkill (power and budget wise) for the Reliant.


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

Update,
The last couple of weeks I started my conversion during the weekend. Removed the body of the reliant robin to get access to the engine which I also removed. I got the D&D motor with alltrax controller for which I'm getting a coupler made to attached it to the gearbox. I checked the motor and controller, no problems there! When I'll get the coupler I'll start on the attachment of the motor to the gearbox. 
The next big buy are the batteries of course. I e-mailed with a lot of companies, USA, European and Chinese. Lead acid would only be a temporary solution because the weight is to high, especially for the 400kg the car weighs. So lithium is indeed the answer, even for me on a budget. In the end I have two companies for a 72v 100ah pack. Elitepower solutions with a distributor in Germany and optimum china. About the first one I don't have any doubts but the second might be one of the Chinese companies with a bad reputation. After e-mailing for a couple of weeks now they offered me a batterybox made to my size, voltage and ah specs with 100a continuous and 200a peak current. After I asked they said it can do up to 3c cont and 6c peak but for steady performance they give 1c to max 2,5c as specs. 
I know about the stories of chines suppliers and was wondering if anyone has experience with optimum china and if it fits the same story. Would be a shame 
Thank, and I'll keep this thread posted on any updates on the car, also check: electricreliantrobin.blogspot.nl
Any other tips or opinions are very much welcome!


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Any more progress to report? I'm looking forward to how this all works out. Particularly the driving capability and the issue with regards to the controller and EMC certification.

I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but the Zap Xebra that was imported into the US reminds me of a Reliant Robin knockoff. I wouldn't bet it was as nice as a Robin though.


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

Two weekends ago I made my first test drive. Without the body and only the engine installed with one 12v starter booster. Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvADO2Tu-u0

I had the coupling made so that the clutch plate could be mounted on it and it would attach to the motor shaft. Turned out great with the steel mounting I've made, the gearbox and motor are in line and it turns very smooth. 










All the electrical is tested outside of the car including the Hall effect with the Alltrax, so now I have to install everything in the car. Started on making the mounts for the cables, controller etc. 
Still waiting on the battery pack.

The whole story is written on http://electricreliantrobin.blogspot.nl/

I'm looking forward to the progress in the next couple of weeks, especially when I get all the parts and its getting somewhere.


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

It's been a while since I placed an update in the thread. The batteries are taking longer than expected because of some difficulties with the supplier but the work on Saturdays continued. 



















































After removing the body, engine, other not needed parts and the interior I started constructing the engine mount for connecting the motor to the gearbox with the direct aluminum coupling I posted about earlier. I drove it for the first time as well with one 12v battery and just the engine on the chassis.

















Video of first drive! Can't get it embedded in the thread:
http://youtu.be/qvADO2Tu-u0

With that done I installed the controller and throttle box and tested the system. With a 12v - 5v regulator I got the necessary voltage for the Hall effect which now starts at 0,23 volt which gives 6% of the power. I wired the signal true to microswitch which will get the voltages down to 0 when I take my foot of the paddle. It's not a perfect solution and I'll have to test if it will work sufficiently but for now it's an option.










With the throttle project as far as I can get it right now I turned my attention to the dashboard with the switches, display and dials I'll need.


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

For now it's all about the center console. The missile style switch, key switch and emergency switch turn on the controller and contractor which turns the car 'ON'. By law I need the three different switches and the key switch can't be removed when the car is 'ON'. Sounds normal but was quit difficult to get right. The white paper will make place for the LCD display of the BMS and the button beside it is used to switch between the different screens. The voltmeter below will show the voltage of the two 12 volt circuits (lights etc. and BMS and other new parts) and will be switched by the toggle switch on the right. The amp meter will show the signal of the Fuel Gauge from Zeva. It can show the amps that the car pulls in RPM. 300 amp will be 3000 RPM in an original gauge. I guess I'll buy a matching set of volt/RPM meter but that's a thing to do later on.

Because there's some extra time without the next big parts I did some smalll things just to keep busy like placing brackets for the high voltage cables and new wiring loom. Does anyone know what's the best placing of high voltage cables and 12v wiring with radiation in mind. Placing the + and - together or is it better to place them separate from each other and if so is it better to place the 12v wiring beside the + or - cable? 










I'll try to get the car licensed as electric in the Netherlands but that will be hard due to the extensive laws and regulations. I'm looking to import the car in the UK, getting a MOT and then change it to electric and exporting it back to the Netherlands. I know a couple of people who have done this with success. I'm wondering if anyone has some tips/tricks on how to do this, I know the general approach but no details jet. 
Please let me know what you think, looking forward to some feedback on my project! 
More info and the whole story on http://electricreliantrobin.blogspot.nl/


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

Wauw!!! I found my old thread back, from 2013  I finished converting my Reliant Robin '76 in april of 2014. Here's a video from the first drive:






Since then I mostly drove on Sunday's around town, but also some car tours:

















Here are some photo's of the 'finished' build:

















And us placing the body back on the chassis:





The car only weighs 400 kg total and the body is around 160 kg.

And the way we put the battery pack in the place of the original fuel tank with a separate box for the contactor, BMS, etc: 

































More info and the whole story on http://electricreliantrobin.blogspot.nl/


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## Gerrit (Jul 20, 2012)

The thing is... I'm officially not allowed to go on the road. The car is still registered as an ICE. Although I do have it insured and I don't have to get it MOT'd no one will find out. Until something goes wrong.

To get the car registered as an electric conversion in the Netherlands I have to go through an EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) test. which is 1.300,- euro without guaranty  not really an option for me. 
There are to other options:

*- Buy a different controller with a EMC certificate. 
- Export the car the the UK, get it MOT'd, change the tax the electric vehicle and import it back the the Netherlands. Since the UK is in the EU (for now) this should work. *

Is there someone who has tips and tricks on how to do this? 
Illegal driving is fun but legal driving is better


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks for the update and good luck for legal part of the project.
What are top speed and range?


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