# Open ReVolt instrumentation



## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm surprised that there isn't more talk on this forum about the Open Revolt controller. I think it's awsome. I'll be using a modified version for my Camaro. Yes it takes some electric know how, but it's so much cheaper to build a good controller, than it is to pay thousands for one that works ok.


----------



## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

The RTD Explorer should get quite a run. I'm looking at it closely for future use. Thanks for the info.


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Camaro said:


> I'm surprised that there isn't more talk on this forum about the Open Revolt controller. I think it's awsome. I'll be using a modified version for my Camaro. Yes it takes some electric know how, but it's so much cheaper to build a good controller, than it is to pay thousands for one that works ok.


Agreed. It made my build possible. Only real alternative would have been an ebay golf cart controller


----------



## ky-honolulu (Apr 7, 2010)

Curious how the Open ReVolt has operated for you, is it noisy like the curtis or jerky like a logi controller. I have been looking at the synkromotive contoller but $1612 plus shipping to Honolulu Hi kinda steep for me right now. Other Questions, do you need to add a heat sink, pre charge resistor or is it all incuded.


----------



## exile (Oct 25, 2008)

In Sweden you need pass EMC test and its not cheap, so use prebuilt controller (that’s have been EMC test and pass the test) is all most the only way to get car legally.
I don’t now how it is in other countries.
I would like to have built one but not able to use it.


----------



## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

I am VERY surprised that this controller is not ALL over the Place!! I think Paul Hokms has done an AWSOME job on this!!! He Kind of reminds me of Linous Travodous in his pursuite of this. I for one think he is doing a fantastic Job! Also it is rummered that he will be developing a 1000 amp syncronous controller!!! 

I have been looking for a good body to put this controller in...classic mustang..but boy they are tough to find!!

Good Luck Paul Holmes my GOD bless all your endevours!!


----------



## jyanof (Nov 11, 2008)

ky-honolulu said:


> Curious how the Open ReVolt has operated for you, is it noisy like the curtis or jerky like a logi controller. I have been looking at the synkromotive contoller but $1612 plus shipping to Honolulu Hi kinda steep for me right now. Other Questions, do you need to add a heat sink, pre charge resistor or is it all incuded.



I've been using the controller for almost a year now in it's basic kit form (no other mods, other than the heatsink I had that it's mounted on). It has survived an AZ summer with 110F heat. In the 10 months I've had it installed, I've put 4500 miles on the controller so far.

It makes no audible noise - 16khz switching frequency at all throttle positions. 

The throttle sensitivity can be customized, but since throttle controls output current (torque), it is very smooth. The problem with curtii (and logi?) is that they control voltage (PWM). So, at a dead stop, a little bit of throttle is just a little bit of voltage, but that's enough for huge amounts of current (torque) which leads to jerky starts. If you control current (torque), you control how smooth it is.

I used a heatsink I got on ebay. I run 144v worth of batteries. At 200A continuous output (cruising for me), it'll operate at +12C relative to ambient. It also has temperature sensing to power back if it's too hot. I haven't experienced that yet, even with AZ summers, but I also try to keep the amps low by keeping rpms high.

You need a precharge resistor, but those are cheap. It does have automated contactor control, but you'd have to defer to jack for questions about that. I never set it up.

Once i started from a stoplight uphill and forgot I was in 2nd gear. The output was pegged at 500A for maybe 15 seconds straight. This was a few weeks ago, so it wasn't crazy hot out, but i think it still says a lot about the controller. The curtis I had would never do that...

You will be responsible for your own work, but I think it is safe to say that the design has been well tested and verified. It's just up to you to assemble it correctly.

I'd definitely recommend this controller as a substitute for any 144V 500A controller with superior performance. 

http://www.evalbum.com/2358


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Open Revolt is an intelligent and well thought out controller.. There are many options including the way that jackbauer built his with IGBT's around the bare controller processor boards... Worth people looking into the work and success that went into it...


----------



## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

I have been really happy with mine.

Mine is actually "MK1" - the original one Paul built, then he shipped it to me. Then I "Tested it til destruction" - sent it back to him, and improvements were made.

Later, I fried my logic board. (Completely my fault. Stupid Stupid Stupid... Not a design flaw.) I just bought a new circuit board from Paul and Sabrina's EV STuff and put it together. Good as new!

I am using the main contactor control. That works really well too. On my car, there is a beep for six seconds after you turn the key, so I just set the precharge for the same amount of time. That way I have a custom precharge indicator - er, sort of.

I am all for promoting open source projects, especially this one. In fact, I designed an Open ReVolt logo! If anyone is interested, you can buy a t-shirt with the logo. 



















My friend Chris is working on an EV motorcycle, with an Open ReVolt controller at the heart of it. His case is plexiglass, and he carved the logo into the top of the clear plastic. It looks really cool!

If anyone wants a copy of the the logo for use on their project, please e-mail/private message me. The only thing that I ask is that you use it to promote the project, rather than to make money with it!


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I hear Open Revolt has an AC controller in the works. Know where I can find info on it?


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

tomofreno said:


> I hear Open Revolt has an AC controller in the works. Know where I can find info on it?


I am working on it, but my ruddy finals are getting in the way. 

Here is a link: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...eap-3-phase-inverter-ac-controller-10839.html

I have a good chunk of it protoboarded but don't have time for a few weeks to work on it some more. My current design is geared toward my test motor, a Solectria ACGTX20 motor, 12 kW cont, 42 kW peak @ 156 volts.


----------



## ky-honolulu (Apr 7, 2010)

I just had to say that your logo looks somewhat similar to one of our IBEW 1186 shirt logos with the lightning bolt and hand.


----------



## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

ky-honolulu said:


> your logo looks somewhat similar to one of our IBEW 1186 shirt logos


My mother-in-law worked for our local IBEW for a number of years. I did some work over there. My logo draws on several elements including IBEW and THE FLASH.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

It would be nice to have a higher current, say 650 - 700A for higher torque at lower rpm, and higher voltage, say 144 - 156V for higher torque at higher rpm, for the HPEVS AC50 motor. The Curtis 1238-7501 controller currently used with it is max 550A, 130V and does well for an ev under 2500 lb or so, but the 8.5" motor would work well for vehicles like a Toyota Corolla if it had a more powerful controller. This motor is much lower cost than the ones from Solectria - $4500.00 for motor and controller.


----------



## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

My friend, Chris, is making a 700 amp, 144V Open ReVolt for his electric motorcycle conversion.

We're not sure how to cram 144v of batteries in there yet!

See his blog here.


----------



## ky-honolulu (Apr 7, 2010)

I just placed my order for the Open ReVolt and thanks to the replies of Jyanof and BenNelson. It was between a Chennic controller JCSCX-12050 a 500 amp $320 and the Open Revolt $600 I Decided to go with the Revolt because of comments and the fact that if I get problems in the future I can have a chance to fix it and get parts and support. The Chennic is a sealed unit and their time frame for responses Must be Chinas time as where mine is pacific (Hawaii ) time. Again I would like to thank you folks for the replies. On a different note Do you folks in the Mainland get the funny look and being called crazy for working on electric cars. I am by other Electricians of my union 1186 and also close friends. Once I get my controller and batteries these last five months will pay off and I will show them. " I Hope "


----------



## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

Most people who look at my car have one of two responses:

1) They don't get why I want an electric car when it can't go 300 miles at a crack the was their gas car can. They shake their head and walk away.

2) (The other 98%) Think the car is really cool and are amazed that I did it all by myself, and did it affordably.

You are not crazy. If you are, it's crazy like a fox.

The ReVolt is pretty cool, you'll be happy with it.


----------



## ky-honolulu (Apr 7, 2010)

It is good to get moral support sometimes, again thanks.


----------



## ky-honolulu (Apr 7, 2010)

Hey Ben, I guess I will not be using an open revolt controller. The order that was placed with them was just canceled by them because I refuse to pay the extra $30 that they asked for. I told them that they should stand behind their website and when I posted the order it gave me options whether the to pay $10 for medium or small packages or $40 for kits which is multiple to the US. The way I see it is if their website gave me choices it should be the choices that is permitted. By taking my order on their website and it going through I see it as a contract. They have taken payment and after nine days have decided to cancel my order. They have also stated to me that many people have had the same problem and it is my mistake. As I stated it is their website and they should stand behind their product and website which is their business. They have also stated that it would take 3 to 4 weeks before they would mail their product. I feel they don't care about the inconvenience they put their customers through. Other websites which I've had experiences of one that has asked for more money have stated that it's their fault and they would burden the costs. These people don't seem very professional but apparently you have a close connections with them. I hope you the best with your controller. I am thinking about using the chenic and having my attorney handled this problem. I will also be contacting the better business bureau. As of yet I have not verified the money going back in to my credit card. This has been a disappointment as I thought I was dealing with a professional company with a great product. Apparently not.


----------



## alvin (Jul 26, 2008)

I have never had a problem dealing with them. I am using one to control
motor speed in my 144 volt ranger and one I put in a charger. Both work fine. At their prices I don't think there is any mark-up. So you have to pay the shipping.
Alvin


----------



## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

KY-Honolulu, I just sent you a private message.


Also, if it was the whole kit ordered, it is NOT a small and lightweight box.

I think my order weighed about 30 lbs. Shipping chunks of conductive metal isn't cheap.


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I've bought a lot of stuff from Paul. Not one problem. I live in Ireland so i pay extra shipping. Thats not his fault. If you want high street service and warranties pay high street prices.


----------



## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

The project is open source. Paul is just providing a service by offering all the parts in one kit. First off, the reason for the lead time is the lack of availability of capacitors. Without them, everybody has to wait. Second, Paul is building these kits, in his garage, in his "spare" time. I use the word spare lightly as hes a father to his 2 year old son, as well as a few other foster children. Not to mention a full time collage math teacher and a night school teacher.


----------



## ky-honolulu (Apr 7, 2010)

I have talked to Paul before and he stated the parts were around $300 and that he drills and mills things on the weekend. As he stated he does not work for free , I don't blame him, so as for just doing a service and having no Markup, that is not true. The point is they knew there were problems with their website and people picking the wrong shipping choices. If they knew there was a problem they should have fixed it. As I stated it's their website and they should stand behind it. I own several rentals, and what is stated in the lease is what I must follow. After the lease is signed, I am bound by that release. I cannot say I don't like the way things are going and canceling the lease. I must follow proper procedures if I am to cancel and if I make a mistake I must eat the losses. Having a website, my understanding is a company once having an agreement accepted and taking payment you are bound by that agreement. As Paul's site states they are not responsible if you mess up your kit. If you messed up their kit you have to deal with the problem yourself. They have already stated about the refund policies. As I stated if they knew there was a problem with their site they should have fixed the site. To my understanding the unit weighs about 11 pounds I do not know where 30 pounds came into place. I am glad some of you guys have a positive experience with them but then there must be a lot who have not because of the fact that they also had problems with the website that was stated in a letter from Sabrina. As for Paul being very busy we all are and have families. All I can say is if you have a business it should be conducted professionally. By not standing by their website that they've posted it is not professional at times business make money and at times business have to eat the costs.


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

ky

Be sure and let us know how the Chinnec works out for you. Let us know if there were any hidden charges when obtaining it. We are all looking out to find a great bargain. Post cost and shipping charges too. Also post if you have to buy/add heat sinks and fans to keep it cool. Also post your experiences with their support team when you run across those configuration difficulties. And can you post the comments that others have had when using the Chinnec controllers.....I haven't been able to find any at all. Also, do you need to purchase other components in order to configure the device? Can you use any potentiometer for speed control or only theirs? Does it support any motor rpm input or thermal sensor input? Can you modify their firmware if their default limits are not to your liking? And above all please post videos of your vehicle moving under Chinnec control. Also what is the lead time to receive a unit?

There is a LOT that I don't know about these Chinnec controllers, their site is not too informative. No one else that I know of is taking the course that you are pursuing, it will be good to hear how your decision turns out.

Good luck.


----------



## ruspert (Jun 16, 2008)

Hi KY-honolulu,
To let you know that I received my Open Revolt kit a few days ago, I am located in Michigan, it weighs 11 pounds and came by Priority mail, postage was $30.93. Everything was well packed , and the $40.00 charge is well within reason. I am well pleased with it and have very little left to do in the completion of putting it together. I can understand your feelings as I also assumed that the shipping was $10.00, an error on my part and sent the additional $30.00 when informed of it. If I may, I suggest that you patch things up and try again. Sometimes our emotions get the better of us.
Cheers,
Russ


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

Boy things are getting spicy over here! We changed the website to make it so it is less likely to have a misunderstanding with shipping. However, in this case, he had actually sent us an email asking about the cost of shipping before even ordering the kit, to which Sabrina replied that it was $40. He then ordered the kit choosing the $10 shipping option. Also, on the shipping page, it says:

****Please choose a shipping option that considers what is being shipped, the destination the products are going, and their estimated weight. If you choose the wrong shipping choice, shipping cost will be recalculated.**** 

The online store forces us to make the customer choose the shipping option. It's awkward, I agree. It's Fat Cow's (yes that's really their name) bright idea.

He told us he's getting a lawyer, and wouldn't send the balance, so we just chocked it up to an incomplete transaction, and thought it would be easiest for both of us if we just gave him all his money back. It should be back on his card very soon, as the credit card people just took it out of our account yesterday I believe.




I'm sorry for the trouble

-Paul


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

On a side note, the reason we add a little extra to the shipping is that we use quite a few anti-static bags which are really expensive (at least from U-LINE they are, and no, i'm not line. southern dialect joke. wife is from Houston).


----------



## illuminateddan (Dec 19, 2009)

Hi, is there a single page that contains all the up to date info, assembly instructions, schematics, pin outs, serial i/o format and other stuff for the cougar / open revolt controller? I have been hopping from the ecomodder forum to paul and sabines site and cannot find the very latest up to date info.

If there isn't a site I would be happy to either create or help admin one as I have just got my grubby little mits on a rev D controller (yes it's the Australian version!)

Cheers

Dan


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

The ecomodder.com/wiki is an attempt at complete documentation, but there are definitely some holes.


----------



## illuminateddan (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks Paul, have you got a serial protocol document that defines how serial data is output from the controller, what is sent and in what format. I need to interface my controller with another processor to pull off some data.

Thanks for your time!
Dan


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

Basically, the only serial output is like a mini operating system. It waits for input, and based on the word and argument, it sets some system variable. Then you can save the new value. For example, let's say you want to change the precharge time to 5 seconds:

pc-time 50
save


It's just 8N1 19200 bps. so, it's all just words and not really a stream of data that fits a protocol.


----------



## illuminateddan (Dec 19, 2009)

Is there a list of comm commands? And how does the RTD explorer get it's data? Can you just poll the controller with a command to get a return value?
Looking at your code from the wiki (v1.9) there appears to be
*Commands:*
save
idle
kp - PI loop proportional gain
ki - PI loop integreal gain
t-min-rc - config.throttle_min_raw_counts
t-max-rc - config.throttle_max_raw_counts
t-pos-gain - config.throttle_pos_gain
t-pwm-gain - config.throttle_pwm_gain 
c-rr - config.current_ramp_rate 

Also appears to be a menu stating firmware version if a command other than the above is entered. is this correct?

*DATA:*
"TR=%03d CR=%03d CF=%03d HS=%04u RT=%04u\r\n"),
rt_data.throttle_ref, rt_data.current_ref, rt_data.current_fb,
rt_data.raw_hs_temp, rt_data.raw_throttle)
Could you define what TR,CR,CF,HS and RT are please?
And just checking that this spits out the data every 200ms?

If you could define this I will create a serial command section on the wiki so I can contribute to this great project!

Whats the most recent software version? where can I find it? Thanks!

Dan


----------



## illuminateddan (Dec 19, 2009)

Scratch that last list, I just found updated software and have created a new serial commands section on the wiki. Paul could you just glance at this to check I haven't got it completely arse about face 

Cheers

Dan


----------



## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

Dan,

If you set rtd-period # to a value in ms, this will be how often the controller spits out the data string with the real time parameters.

The break down is as follows:

TR = Controllers calculated throttle position. 0-511
CR = Controllers current reference based on throttle and other factors. 0-511
CF = Current feedback from LEM current sensor 0-511
PW = PWM duty cycle of controller 0-511
HS = Heat-sink Temp in raw ADC counts 0-1023
RT = Raw Throttle counts from the ADC 0-1023
FB = Fault Bits. Hex output with each fault and status code. Normal 00
BA = Calculated Battery amps 0-511
AH = Calculated Amp Hours consumed 0-999.9

Here is an example string:
TR=000 CR=000 CF=002 PW=000 HS=0315 RT=0716 FB=00 BA=000 AH=000.0 


This shows:

TR=000 No throttle
CR=000 Controller is not commanding any current
CF=002 Current sensor reading of 002, it will fluctuate a few counts in increments of 002
PW=000 No pwm output
HS=0315 heatsink temp of 315 is about 76 ish F. going off the top of my head. lol
RT=0716 The throttle all the way up value
FB=00 No fault codes. this will change on HPL, pre-charge, overspeed, overtemp, and no throttle or current sensor
BA=000 no battery current
AH=000.0 no AH consumed because you havnt used any power yet. lol


When you set rtd-period to 100, the controller will send an update 10 times per second.

If you use my program RTD Explorer, it will automatically graph all this data for you.

You can get it at www.evvette.com

You can also visit the archive of firmware that I created at www.adambrunette.com/firmware.

Also, when you hit return, thats when the controller will output the firmware version.

Hope this helps.

-Adam


----------



## illuminateddan (Dec 19, 2009)

Great! thanks Adam, much appreciated. I have been trying to back trace it in the code, so this is far easier. I have put this data into the wiki for reference and a link to your RTD explorer page as well if this is OK?
I'm going to be using the comms to interface into my vehicle management system/BMS, so I can call up the controller data on an LCD on the dash, so this is really good!

I will put the project onto the wiki as a side project when it is more than flow diagrams..... 

Cheers

Dan


----------



## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

Dan, 

That sounds great!

I have been so busy that I havent gotten around to it. 

-Adam


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

adamj12b said:


> I have been so busy that I havent gotten around to it.
> 
> -Adam


Thanks from me also (know a lot about "Busy" ! - got some robots to finish...) - I have hacked my way into things, and this helps tremendously on the controller..


----------



## illuminateddan (Dec 19, 2009)

It's great for me as I get to put something back and it helps me learn how it works. I find it really cool that so many people are willing to do things 'properly' and share their knowledge. Most of my ev beetle will be open source hardware! Controller, BMS, Vehicle management systems, charger (still scratching my head on the charger thing though... the $200 intelligent charger seems the way to go... I may be the first to test it on shiny new lifepos.)
dan


----------

