# 96 Chevy S10 Conversion dragster questions



## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

So moving forward on the project, we have our 96 Chevy S10 manual 4 cyl regular cab stripped of all the gas components including transmission, heat, and air conditioning. This truck must remain STREET LEGAL. and i dont know why the pic wont rotate.

















Anyway the controller is still undecided but the pack specs are not. We will have 340V (for sag) and 1000A for the entire 1/4 mile. Because of this power we decided to install a different transmission. A Muncie M22 "rock crusher" has been given to us for a very very cheap price and we need to use it. So can anyone help on the best way to get this tranny to work? 
Also the S10 was originally a hydraulic clutch and this muncie is a mechanical clutch. Do we need to convert and how would this be done? Can we get away with no clutch at all?

Can we leave the ABS unpowered and still have brakes? If we have to remove it, do we "short it out" from the system by connecting the lines together where it would be?

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Don't know anything about your tranny, but do know that most anti-lock brakes operate by interrupting the brake pressure several times per second, and that the failure mode is such that they just work like normal brakes (no pressure interrupt). Thus, you should be fine removing the anti-lock components and hooking up the plumbing directly.


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## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

after more research I found that people have removed the abs module and used a brake proportioning valve in replacement. 

Another noob question I have is do you guys use the original ECU for electricity the stock parts of the car (lights, speedometer, etc.)? Or do you hook everything up to your dc to dc converter and have the converter or contactor switched by the ignition? Is a special ecu available for purchase?


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I would keep the clutch. Use the S10 clutch master cylinder and make a custom bracket for the slave cylinder OR use an annular slave cylinder from several racing suppliers. It is mounted inside the bellhousing and is a nice simple unit.

The Muncey is fine. Just get an adapter kit (like from Can EV) and the correct bellhousing.

Take the light bulb out of the dash for ABS failure or it will stay on. Run your system as-is.

Get rid of any and all ECU's on the truck as life will be happier with out them.
Power can be from a Stand alone battery or can be tapped from the traction pack.(This is a drag racer right?) Lighter is better.

Rear axle gearing will be IMPORTANT.

Run an aluminum flywheel or a radically cut down steel wheel.

After you get experience with this truck, your second generation drag truck can be a LOT more High-Tech. I have found that when most guys try to be too trick with their first build, they never finish it or it winds up being a 5 year build.


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## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

mizlplix said:


> I would keep the clutch. Use the S10 clutch master cylinder and make a custom bracket for the slave cylinder OR use an annular slave cylinder from several racing suppliers. It is mounted inside the bellhousing and is a nice simple unit.
> 
> The Muncey is fine. Just get an adapter kit (like from Can EV) and the correct bellhousing.
> 
> ...



thanks for the info. I contacted can ev about the adapter. But are you saying use my S10 hydraulic clutch with the mechanical clutch muncie? I did not think that was possible.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Yah. You can use an internal annular hydraulic bearing or the stock external hydraulic cylinder with custom made mount and modify the clutch arm.

Pretty straight forward stuff for a hotrod shop. Google it a little...

http://www.hotrodhydraulics.com/

It is not that hard.

Miz


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## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

mizlplix said:


> Yah. You can use an internal annular hydraulic bearing or the stock external hydraulic cylinder with custom made mount and modify the clutch arm.
> 
> Pretty straight forward stuff for a hotrod shop. Google it a little...
> 
> ...


seems like no one makes an adapter for this transmission though. Call me dumb, but can I put the s10 bell housing on the muncie and order a s10 adapter? or am i crazy. and if not, do you know of a transmission that will fit well and that i can get an adapter for?


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Almost everyone does an S10 conversion. Call a couple of them and explain what you are doing. I am sure they can help more than I, I am not a Chevy guy....LOL

Now as to the munsie. Can EV makes an adapter for a Camaro V6. If I remember right, it is the same one I bought and put on my Powerglide. It should fit a late Chevy pick-up 350 V-8 bellhousing/flywheel/clutch set up (some had hydraulic clutches)- which should fit your Muncie trans, leaving you to have a crossmember and driveshaft built. 

OR a Chevy guy can suggest all factory parts to do your install. 

GL

Miz


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

in 96 chevy had a couple of trannies, but basically 2 engines, a 2.something liter 4 banger and a 4.3 v6 which is basically a 350 engine missing the two front cylinders. the 4.3 trannie will bolt to anything chevy ever made, so all the hot rod wannabe's bolt in a 350, and the really exotic ones build a 383. I'm not so sure about the bell housing on the 4 banger, BUT a bellhousing swap ought to be easy if you go aftermarket like lakewood. I'm not sure what mustang the muncie was in, but, worst case is to send the bellhousing to Canev and they will make a custom. Use a mustang concentric hydraulic throw out bearing. Summit has a universal fit, too.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

You just need a standard Chevy V8 bellhousing on the front of the Muncie, and the Chevy V8/4.3V6 adapter plate mentioned above. When you're talking to the conversion company it's probably best to just say you need an adapter for an S10 with a 4.3, to avoid all the confusion. It's all standard Chevy stuff. I keep emphasizing Chevy because there is also a BOP (Buick/Olds/Pontiac) pattern that is different. If you have that bellhousing there are also adapter plates to convert to Chevy pattern (would be used in addition to the EV adpater plate), but you can probably find the right bellhousing just as cheap (I have one of those in my garage now). Since you're racing you should probably just pay the extra from Summit or Jegs and get an SFI approved bellhousing, or at least a scatter shield.

I would go with the hydraulic throwout bearing (annular they mentioned) as adapting the S10 slave cylinder to the old mechanical linkage will probably be a pain. It's also a crap shoot as to whether or not the throw of the slave cylinder will work well with the old mechanical linkage. You can figure all that out, and fabricate custom brakets, etc, but by the time you sort it all out you could have popped the hydraulic throwout bearing in and been on to something else.


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## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for explaining that one through for me guys I really appreciate the help. Thinking of time and money would it be easier to sell the Muncie and get something different like a t-5 world class tranny from a mustang 5.0 and buy the motor adapter plate for a 95 mustang? Or would converting this Muncie still be easier or fit better?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

danmansuttmeier said:


> Thanks for explaining that one through for me guys I really appreciate the help. Thinking of time and money would it be easier to sell the Muncie and get something different like a t-5 world class tranny from a mustang 5.0 and buy the motor adapter plate for a 95 mustang? Or would converting this Muncie still be easier or fit better?


That might just be a matter of preference. T5 transmissions came in everything from 4cyl economy vehicles to V8 performance stuff. Taken as they are, bone stock, I would think the Muncie is stronger. Most of the guys I know running T5s behind stout V8s have them built to handle the torque, and torque is the issue with an electric drag racer. So you have to start with the right T5, and might need a rebuild as you build more power. On the other hand, they are more plentiful than Muncies, so you can just grab another, swap it in, and keep racing if you break it.

I don't see a lot of difference in time and cost, considering what you're doing with it. You still need an adapter plate, a flywheel, a coupler, etc. Since you already have the Muncie, you may have a nice headstart by using the money for parts to make it work, instead of buying another transmission. Then again, the Muncie is probably worth a few bucks, so you can also use that money to buy a T5, etc.

See what I mean, it's really personal preference. Either option would work well.


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## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

toddshotrods said:


> That might just be a matter of preference. T5 transmissions came in everything from 4cyl economy vehicles to V8 performance stuff. Taken as they are, bone stock, I would think the Muncie is stronger. Most of the guys I know running T5s behind stout V8s have them built to handle the torque, and torque is the issue with an electric drag racer. So you have to start with the right T5, and might need a rebuild as you build more power. On the other hand, they are more plentiful than Muncies, so you can just grab another, swap it in, and keep racing if you break it.
> 
> I don't see a lot of difference in time and cost, considering what you're doing with it. You still need an adapter plate, a flywheel, a coupler, etc. Since you already have the Muncie, you may have a nice headstart by using the money for parts to make it work, instead of buying another transmission. Then again, the Muncie is probably worth a few bucks, so you can also use that money to buy a T5, etc.
> 
> See what I mean, it's really personal preference. Either option would work well.



thanks again. I will post when we decide which direction to go. And then again when we are lost.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

actually, now that I think about it: Sell the muncie, get a powerslide auto like mizlplix did and transfer your worries to the chassis and tire hook-up aspect. Look at his threads for all sorts of cool tricks and you only need two speeds, fast and gone.


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## danmansuttmeier (Mar 7, 2011)

piotrsko said:


> actually, now that I think about it: Sell the muncie, get a powerslide auto like mizlplix did and transfer your worries to the chassis and tire hook-up aspect. Look at his threads for all sorts of cool tricks and you only need two speeds, fast and gone.


thats awesome i never knew powerglides really existed. What motor adapter did mizlplix use? Does can ev have a motor adapter for a warp11hv? What would I order?

And I saw Mizlplix used a diaphragm pump. Is that to keep fluid up top when the tranny is not being turned? I have read that the Soliton 1 can be programmed for automatic trannys by setting a idle motor speed. Would this get rid of the need of the diaphragm pump?

Does any modification need to be done to the torque converter?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

two processes here: TCI and a couple of other companies sell a circle track conversion for powerslides that eliminates the torque converter. there is also a modification to the internals that will provide band lock-up for starting in gear. As far as I know, miz wanted to run a pressurized system, hence the pump. His pump does the same function as engine idle: pressurized fluid to engage the 1st band from a dead stop. Some 'slides had a pump in the rear of the tranny that handled these functions, but as I get older, I forget stuff. You can also use a th400, 727, AOD or whatever they make hubs for.

ANY SOL will idle the motor at whatever set rpm i ask. I figure that an idle with a clutch should make the vehicle transparent to the typical end user, but that is my direction.

the motor adapter generally stays the same, since all manufacturers GENERALLY use the crankshaft drilled in a universal way. flywheel changes, and i believe nothing else. if you don't care about the inefficiencies you could directly use a complete auto trans complete with Torque converter..


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

All the above is good advice (just to add a couple of things):

The launch of an electric motor is different than a V8 in a drag race situation. It needs a direct drive set up. Manual with clutch or Auto with direct drive....Users choice.

A warp 11HV is a fine choice for your project. But it will need at least 2 gears to get to the "top end" of the strip. Which means shifting......

Manual trans; the 5th gear in a T5 is almost useless with an electric motor. I have never hit 5th in a ICE engine either. Pick Muncy.....

Auto trans; No torque converter. direct drive, requires a external pump to keep it in gear when motor is stopped. 

Big tires, good gear selection, Warp 11HV, = Ford 9" axle.

If you could afford it, a dog ring 2 speed trans. take off in low, yank second gear-done.(no clutch needed)


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