# Using Dryer plug to charge EV



## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

I'd be interested in hearing what others say about that. I use a 10-30 (dryer outlet) to L6-30 adapter for my EVSE which I use to charge my home built EV, and my wife's Ford Fusion plug in hybrid. I've had no problems with it, but I'd hate to think I'm running the risk of frying a cat! (or my wife...).


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I use two hots and the green wire for my charger, and have 170 VDC present during charging between my chassis and HVDC circuit that is not related to my pack voltage, but I understand that this is because my charger is not an isolated charger. Never a problem unless I decide to touch a battery terminal and the chassis at the same time.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I have my EVSE (JuiceBox) connected to my drier outlet which has a 60amp circuit breaker. Been using it for the past 3 years with my Leaf. No issues at all. 

Pete


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

boorobo said:


> " It would not be advisable from a safety stand point to utilize the 10-30 receptacle with an adapter for the LCS-25P. The reason being is that the NEMA 10-30 receptacle uses a Neutral wire as opposed to an earth ground, the LCS-25P requires an earth ground connection in order to operate correctly,


That is about the most stupid most uniformed statement I have ever heard. 

EARTH HAS NO FUNCTION. NEC forbids earth or any thing in place of earth to be used to carry any thing electrical except a fault path in the event fault. Even under fault earth has no function or does anything.

Now if he had said you need a equipment grounding conductor, and a 10-30 is not compatible would be true. 

Here is the deal. What the equipment ground conductor does is it minimizes touch potential differences on exposed metallic chassis, frames, and exposed metal parts of electrical equipment. In addition it provides a planned fault path in the event one of the circuit conductors comes in contact with exposed metal parts of sufficient capacity to operate an over current protection device. 

Having said all that, if your salesman or rep had a clue what he/she was talking about, they would know it is not a problem and perfectly safe to use. 

a 10-30 has 3 conductors L1, L2, and Neutral aka grounded circuit conductor. Here is the catch what is the neutral? I gave you a hint. It is a grounded circuit conductor. If you were to follow the white wire in the receptacle back to your breaker box you would see it bonded to a bus with all the other white circuit conductors and all Green equipment ground conductors. 

Your laundry dryer circuit is what is called a DEDICATED CIRCUIT. There are no splices, taps ect to share with other circuits. It goes directly to the main breaker box. 

To make it a legal circuit you have a couple of options. 

1 Run a Green insulated #8 conductor to replace the white conductor. Inside the breaker box put it right where the white wire was attached too, same in the receptacle. All you are doing is replacing the white wire with a green wire.

#1 is kind of silly huh? That is why you have a second option to meet code. Open up the receptacle and wrap green tape around the white wire only. No go to main breaker and wrap green tape around the white wire. It is now a compliant 2-wire with ground. 

OK I assume you know current passing through a resistance creates a voltage drop. Here is why NEC forbids 10-30 receipts to be used. And this will ring true to some of you because it has happened to you. The circuit does not have a EGC, one with no current flowing, your ole dryer chassis is bonded to the neutral conductor for fault current path. It worked well but had a known problem a few folks had been killed from. The neutral carried normal operation load current. What happens when you run a lot of current over wire? You get a voltage drop right? Your neutral drops a voltage. In some cases 5 to 10 volt AC sitting right there on the dryer.

Any of you ever remember in days past when you touched both your washing machine and dryer at the same time and getting a mild shock or tingle? 

Now you know why.


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

So, if you unplug the dryer ang plug in the EVSE, there's no problem? You'd probably be doing that anyway...


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## bwjunkie (Jul 31, 2013)

Is it possible that the LCS-25P prefers both ground and neutral because some internals need 110v as well?

josh


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

boorobo said:


> I want to buy a Clipper Creek LCS25p L6-30
> 
> My dryer plug is a NEMA 10-30
> 
> ...


It will work and you might never have any problems with it. But what I would do would be to put in the correct outlet on its own breaker. It seems like you are talking about an existing dryer outlet and swapping between dryer and EVSE. At best this will be inconvenient and at worst you will wear out the dryer outlet. These kind of outlets are not engineered for the thousands of insertion cycles that you would be inflicting on it. A dryer outlet might see only a handful of insertion cycles in its lifetime normally so that is all they design them for. When they wear out the contact resistance goes up and things start getting warm. The EVSE and your charger will see the voltage drop and you will experience an efficiency loss due to the heating in the connections. When it gets bad enough you could experience a meltdown in the dryer outlet. And that could be a real inconvenience.

Best Wishes!


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

bwjunkie said:


> Is it possible that the LCS-25P prefers both ground and neutral because some internals need 110v as well?
> 
> josh


That would be the only reason requiring a neutral conductor. The electric dryers of today are the exact same as they were 50 years ago. Only difference today is the controller/timer is electronic rather than mechanical, and chassis is isolated from neutral... 

Having said that both dryers of yesterday and today motor and controls require 120 volts for the motor and controls. Up until around 1970 something NEC allowed a 3-wire dryer circuits of L1, L2, and N only and the dryer chassis was bonded to neutral. That proved to be dangerous as many people got electrocuted, some fatally.

Today any circuit requires a Equipment Grounding Conductor, so today all dryer circuits or any 240 VAC circuit that requires 120 volts for the motor or controls are now required to have a 3-wire with ground for a total of 4 wires of L1, L2, N, and G. This keeps normal load currents from flowing on ground conductors which is forbidden by all electrical codes. Current flowing on ground conductors is BAD NEWS and dangerous.

For the charger, if it does not require 120 volts, then no neutral is required, only EGC plus L1 and L2 to make 240 volts. To be code compliant requires a NEMA 6-30 R/P or 10-30 R/P wired with Ground. But here is the deal. You are good to go to use the circuit you have. To make it code compliant you would be required to place green tape on the white wire inside the receptacle. That is all it takes to make this a compliant circuit and do what it was designed to do.

Its your dryer plug and circuit that is not in compliance and unsafe. To bring it up to code and safe is run a green colored ground wire back to the main breaker box and terminate it too the N/G buss bar with all the other and green and white colored conductors. At the dryer place a NEMA 14-30R, and change the dryer power cord with to a NEMA 14-30P. That will give you 3-wire plus Ground of L1, L2, N, and G you will have a 240/120 code compliant circuit that is safe and functional. If you wanted but I do not recommend it because it will wear the receptacle out, is you could use it on the charger legally and safely. Replace the 10-30 plug on the charger with a 14-30P. You just will not connect anything to the Neutral terminal in the plug and leave it open.

Here is the supporting NEC requirements. 

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers

Frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, countermounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction
boxes that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.

Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be connected
to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.

(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wyeconnected
system.

(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.

(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE serviceentrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.

(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of
the equipment are bonded to the equipment.


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