# [EVDL] Could money win the Automotive X PRIZE?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The requirement is for 100 mpg gas equivalent, 200 mile range. This is doable in an EV with today's tech.

There is also a stipulation that it be production capable and a reasonable expectation that you can achieve sales of 10,000 units per year in the chosen market. The market is limited to 4 wheel, 4 passenger vehicles....eliminating the sportscar as a design option in the main competition....but not the alternative class.

THe reasonable expectation for sales volume means that it has to be priced competitively in the chosen market...or it will simply not sell in the volumes required.

David W. Beard
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

<<<< The requirement is for 100 mpg gas equivalent, 200 mile range. 
This is doable in an EV with today's tech.

There is also a stipulation that it be production capable and a 
reasonable expectation that you can achieve sales of 10,000 units per 
year in the chosen market. The market is limited to 4 wheel, 4 
passenger vehicles....eliminating the sportscar as a design option in 
the main competition....but not the alternative class.>>>>



That's under 6kw to go 60mph from something with more capacity than a 
Karmann Ghia! I can see someone doing it in the alternative class, but 
how big is *that* prize?

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You could win the Automotive X Prize with less than 1000 pounds of
batteries. Throwing money at it will just make you lose, though.

We have the technology to make a 4-door, 100mpg equivalent, 200 mile
range car. The hard part is making it mass-producible at a competitive
price. And that part is really, really hard.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Ryan Stotts <[email protected]> wrote:
> > There's situations where someone has the money, but doesn't know how
> > to win the X Prize. Then there are opposite situations of someone who
> > knows how to win; but doesn't have the money.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"You could win the Automotive X Prize with less than 1000 pounds of
batteries. Throwing money at it will just make you lose, though."

Depends on where you throw the money....

We have the technology to make a 4-door, 100mpg equivalent, 200 mile
range car. The hard part is making it mass-producible at a competitive
price. And that part is really, really hard."


Not really!

Go ahead and throw some money at me....I'll show you how...

David W. Beard

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> > We have the technology to make a 4-door, 100mpg equivalent, 200 mile
> > range car. The hard part is making it mass-producible at a competitive
> > price. And that part is really, really hard.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How far do you intend to scale out this endeavor, and when? If your goal is
to pick up the slack from the automakers, what happens if you are still
working on it after Volts, iMievs, BYDs, Javlons, and so on are starting to
show up on the roads?

-----Original Message-----
But we're going to try with the Sunrise EV2! We can't afford to chase 
the X-prize, but we *are* going to build real cars for real people to drive.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Actually, when this thread first started, I thought of you, Lee - the 
Sunrise would be mass-produceable, and should win the X-Prize, if enough 
money was thrown your way, not?

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Could money win the Automotive X PRIZE?




> > Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> >> We have the technology to make a 4-door, 100mpg equivalent, 200 mile
> >> range car. The hard part is making it mass-producible at a competitive
> >> price. And that part is really, really hard.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> joe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Actually, when this thread first started, I thought of you, Lee - the
> > Sunrise would be mass-produceable, and should win the X-Prize, if enough
> > money was thrown your way, not?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > How far do you intend to scale out this endeavor, and when? If your
> > goal is to pick up the slack from the automakers, what happens if you
> > are still working on it after Volts, iMievs, BYDs, Javlons, and so on
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> joe wrote:
> > Actually, when this thread first started, I thought of you, Lee - the
> > Sunrise would be mass-produceable, and should win the X-Prize, if enough
> > money was thrown your way, not?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> > Will the Sunrise have a 200 mile range? I was under the impression
> > that it would have more of a standard EV range for cost reasons.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> joe wrote:
> > Actually, when this thread first started, I thought of you, Lee - the
> > Sunrise would be mass-produceable, and should win the X-Prize, if enough
> > money was thrown your way, not?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The only real barriers to low cost production lives in the mindset of the business community and government.....how we do business


http://www.atp.nist.gov/eao/wp05-01/chapt5.htm

http://www-1.ibm.com/solutions/plm/doc/content/bin/G510-3310-00F.pdf




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have to say thanks for this thread. I didn't know anything about the
Sunrise and these posts pushed me to go look it up. WOW, I'm impressed! I
had no idea something like that existed (as embarrassing as it is)! It
seems it was even better than the EV-1 as far as range goes. Thats project
I'd support.

-Jon Glauser
http://www.evalbum.com/555


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> The only real barriers to low cost production lives in the mindset of the business community and government.....how we do business

I tend to agree. When our government gets the idea to help they make the
same mistakes over and over.
Give money to school research but allow them to aquire and sit on
exclusive patents.
and
Give money to existing car companies instead of backing new companies
for he new technology.

I love the gripe about cost of the IRS sending us a letter of
fourthcoming check, 42 million dollars, which, btw, is just the postage
for 300million people.

If the government wanted to really do something about transportation
they could add a "check this box to send $1 to the BEV fund" onto our
tax returns and then create(aquire? ACP?) an open standard that auto
companies could build.

We did it before for another reason. The Jeep.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> > The Automotive X-Prize is a fascinating concept. If it had been around
> > when Solectria was doing the Sunrise, I'm sure they would have
> > participated. However, it is the wrong goal for us. It could easily cost
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm holding a Washington State "Mega Millions" ticket in my hand.
The number is 26 41 44 53 55, "Mega Ball" (whatever that is) is 07.
If I win the Mega on this go round I will donate 50% (probably
about 10 mil) to the Sunrise 2 project. Then we shall see if money
(old + new) can win the X Prize.
Of course, by the Law of Jinxes, I just euchred myself out of the
other half, but oh well.
It's an ongoing promise btw. I buy lottery tickets every week
(hey, why not support the schools in my state?) and if I ever win *any
significant amount* (or find myself in a situation where I'm making
money) I'll be donating big to Sunrise 2. IMO it's the best bet going.




> Rick Beebe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > > The Automotive X-Prize is a fascinating concept. If it had been around
> > > when Solectria was doing the Sunrise, I'm sure they would have
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Andrew Kane wrote:
> > I'm holding a Washington State "Mega Millions" ticket in my hand.
> > The number is 26 41 44 53 55, "Mega Ball" (whatever that is) is 07.
> > If I win the Mega on this go round I will donate 50% (probably
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee, that's a great story, and as always your epigram is illuminating 
I am unmarried and have no dependents. I am destitute but have
enough to buy two lottery tickets per week, which I do faithfully.
I'm not concerned with winning it in order to buy solid gold
toilets or a Tesla Roadster. If ever I had that kind of money (or any
kind of money beyond rent and ramen) I want to do something with it
that fscking matters. Although I've never met you, you have inspired
me in ways that would take too much bandwidth to fully explain. As
I've said, in my opinion the Sunrise 2 project is the best bet going
for an Automotive X Prize winner, and if I spend 10 or 20 million
dollars I didn't earn to gain nothing then I wind up with exactly that
with which I started.
The discussion is academic, of course. The odds of winning this
particular lottery are such that if everyone on EVDL bought a ticket
every day, pledging it to the Sunrise 2 project, the car would be
finished and a thriving business would be making money long before any
of those tickets paid off. If the project actually had to pay for
those tickets the Sunrise would never be built.
However, if in the 3.6E7* chance I win the dough, I want to be
on the record as to where the money (at least half of it) will go. If
you are watching the Washington State lottery, don't let me get away
without paying up!

*completely made-up number





> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Andrew Kane wrote:
> > > I'm holding a Washington State "Mega Millions" ticket in my hand.
> > > The number is 26 41 44 53 55, "Mega Ball" (whatever that is) is 07.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Andrew Kane wrote:
> However, if in the 3.6E7* chance I win the dough, I want to be
> > on the record as to where the money (at least half of it) will go. If
> > you are watching the Washington State lottery, don't let me get away
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I wonder if it would be better a better gamble if all of us sent a
dollar a week to Lee 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From: Jeff Shanab
> I wonder if it would be better a better gamble if all of us sent a
> dollar a week to Lee 

Ah, but that's not gambling. I'd invest it in the Sunrise EV2. I can *guarantee* there's another Sunrise coming!
--

--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Lee, 

Do you have a PayPal account, to make this easier for
those of us who forgot how to write checks?

- Steven Ciciora



> --- Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if it would be better a better gamble if
> > all of us sent a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi EVerybody;

Good to see Lee posting that he IS doing something with Sunrise. He has 
his snail mail addie on his posts??? Check it out. Pun Intended.Let's do the 
math;1400 guyz on the List, a buk a month, from each?I'll cover for a bunch 
of ya. I hate to beg, I get so bummed out by all the beggy shit I get in the 
snail mail BECAUSE I gave to ONE charity! But this is for real, I think, we 
NEED SOMEBODY to do this, thew Sunrise, that is. So skip a coff of cuppee at 
Starbux, send what ya can! EVerybit helps!Think of it; No more Led Sleds!

Seeya

Bob, shameless begging<g>!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Ciciora" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Could money win the Automotive X PRIZE?


> Hey Lee,
>
> Do you have a PayPal account, to make this easier for
> those of us who forgot how to write checks?
>
> - Steven Ciciora
>


> > --- Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I wonder if it would be better a better gamble if
> >> all of us sent a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee, My $/week for 2008 is in the mail. Bob is inspiring, isn't he!
Actually, a PayPal account is not a bad idea. They do pay interest.



> Bob Rice <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Good to see Lee posting that he IS doing something with Sunrise. He has
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee,

If you set up a PayPal account, I'll send some $ your way.

Brian
(owner of a shiny new WarP 9") 



> storm connors <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Lee, My $/week for 2008 is in the mail. Bob is inspiring, isn't he!
> > Actually, a PayPal account is not a bad idea. They do pay interest.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Brian Pikkula wrote:
> > If you set up a PayPal account, I'll send some $ your way.
> 
> Hi Brian,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Steven Ciciora wrote:
> > Hey Lee,
> > Do you have a PayPal account, to make this easier for
> > those of us who forgot how to write checks?
> ...


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