# [EVDL] Equalization charge on floodies?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi guys,

My EV is now up and running and I have a couple of battery charging
questions. I have a Russco 3 stage charger (110V, 15A) and I'm using
conventional, deep-cycle, lead-acid batteries - 10 of them, 12V each so it's
a 120V system). I've heard that you only need to do an equalization charge
every so often (how often depends on who you talk to). I've even heard it
said that it's not really necessary.

Anyway, here are my questions:

1. What equalization current level should I use?
2. Would it be a benefit to add 1/2 hour or so of equalization to every
charge? Is that a waste of energy? Might it prolong my battery life?

Thanks in advance for giving me the benefit of your experience and
expertise.


Peter Flipsen Jr
Pocatello, ID
http://www.evalbum.com/1974
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have the same charger on a 96V pack. I have a 1/2 hour equalization
time. I had it set lower, but my Ah counter (link10) would always show
a small deficit in kWhs. I had the ending voltage set correctly (right
now in 30-40F temps 120V), so this extra charge at the end put in that
extra energy needed. I dont get a lot of "boiling". I can hear some
bubbles, mostly the large ones that build up. I dont smell much acid
when I get in after a charge (there is some though). I haven't had to
clean my batteries since I put them in ~3 months ago (I am checking).

I have the current adjustment knob set to pull about 10A through the
AC line (thats what it adjusts). I might turn it up some when I get my
dedicated 20A outlet installed.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555





> SLPinfo.org <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > My EV is now up and running and I have a couple of battery charging
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 23 Jan 2009 at 9:49, SLPinfo.org wrote:
> 
> > I'm using conventional, deep-cycle, lead-acid batteries - 10 of them,
> > 12V each ...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

They are "deep cycle" type batteries - I'm guessing the word 'conventional'
threw you off. I didn't mean to imply that they were regular car starting
batteries. I just wanted to distinguish them from the "sealed" type because
I will need to check water levels..

Have no idea what "sweeper" batteries are.

Thanks for the link.

- Peter



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 23 Jan 2009 at 9:49, SLPinfo.org wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > They are "deep cycle" type batteries - I'm guessing the word 'conventional'
> > threw you off. I didn't mean to imply that they were regular car starting
> > batteries. I just wanted to distinguish them from the "sealed" type because
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sweeper batteries are about the same footprint as Group 31 marine batteries,
but are about 16" or 20" tall. They're rated around 180AH, 12 volts.

Marine deep cycle batteries, from what I've heard on here, don't hold up
well if you draw more than about 100A from them to often. Which makes a
fairly slow car.

Z



> John G. Lussmyer <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > > They are "deep cycle" type batteries - I'm guessing the word
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 24 Jan 2009 at 9:23, SLPinfo.org wrote:
> 
> > They are "deep cycle" type batteries - I'm guessing the word 'conventional'
> > threw you off.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Anybody noticed the huge errors in the specs of the first linked
battery? 


Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:09 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Equalization charge on floodies?



> On 24 Jan 2009 at 9:23, SLPinfo.org wrote:
> 
> > They are "deep cycle" type batteries - I'm guessing the word
> 'conventional'
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well folks, to respond to all of this:

btw - I do appreciate the input very much!

1) re: make and model - the batteries I'm using are Centennial DC-31 which
means, yes they are group 31. They are rated at 130 AH (C/20) and are
supposed to be the generic equivalent of the Trojan SCS-225 (all the specs
match). I just checked the Centennial Battery website and they are indeed
listed as "Marine/RV". So I guess I'll just have to see how they last - I
am somewhat holding on to the possibility of the Oasis batteries from
Firefly Technologies for my next pack. Those are the ones which have the
"foam core" that is promising double the range and double the cycle life.
They're being tested in big rigs as we speak and happen to be Group 31.

On a related note I have a short commute (3 miles each way) and Pocatello,
ID is a small place (maybe 9-10 miles from one end to the other; pop
55,000), so I don't expect to go below 50% DOD very often. That should help
with the life of these.

2) I went with 12V batteries rather than 6V or 8V because (unlike some) I
am extremely uncomfortable with the idea of exceeding GVWR but wanted the
possibility of traveling at highway speeds.

3) My "Volt Colt" (http://www.evalbum.com/1974) is anything but slow. The
guys who did the conversion for us had it up to 65 mph already with a bit of
room to spare and it has pretty good accelaration (I bought the donor with a
blown ICE so I can't say how it compares to before). I've not had it above
35 myself so far as I do want to be kind to the batteries for the first
while.

- Peter
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Peter,

I am using a Trojan SCS-225 130 AH 12V battery as the accessory battery for 
my rig. This battery last me 6 years and 9 months which may use 25 amps 
maximum during my start up of the EV. Then the alternator takes over and 
provides the EV power while charging this battery.

This battery is rated at 130 AH at 25 amps for 225 Reserve Minutes. Lets 
say you can keep the battery load at 25 amps, then the usable ampere hour 
becomes:

225 Reserved Minutes / 60 = 3.75 hours

3.75 hrs x 25 amps = 93.75 ampere hour

93.75 ah / 2 = 46.875 usable ah to 50% SOC

Driving time at 25 battery amps is 225 RS /2 = 112 minutes

Mow lets say you are driving at the average 75 batteries amps, then this 
becomes about:

225 RS / 75 = 3

130 AH / 3 = 43.3 AH

225 RS / 3 = 75 minutes of driving

75 RS / 60 = 1.25 hours

1.25 x 75 = 93.75 ampere hours

93.75 ah / 2 = 46.8 usable ampere hour at 50% SOC

Lets say the estimate life of this battery at 1 minute use per 5 miles at 25 
amps is 6 years, then the life of the battery would be about 6/5 = 1.2 years 
at 1 minute per mile at 75 amps.

You have to be very careful not to discharge this battery at a no load 
voltage of 12.10 V which is about 50% SOC. SAG voltage is ok to 10 volts. 
If you get below 10 volts, this battery will drop so fast and by the time 
you can remove the power, it may drop to 6 volts.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Equalization charge on floodies?


> Well folks, to respond to all of this:
>
> btw - I do appreciate the input very much!
>
> 1) re: make and model - the batteries I'm using are Centennial DC-31 
> which
> means, yes they are group 31. They are rated at 130 AH (C/20) and are
> supposed to be the generic equivalent of the Trojan SCS-225 (all the specs
> match). I just checked the Centennial Battery website and they are indeed
> listed as "Marine/RV". So I guess I'll just have to see how they last - I
> am somewhat holding on to the possibility of the Oasis batteries from
> Firefly Technologies for my next pack. Those are the ones which have the
> "foam core" that is promising double the range and double the cycle life.
> They're being tested in big rigs as we speak and happen to be Group 31.
>
> On a related note I have a short commute (3 miles each way) and Pocatello,
> ID is a small place (maybe 9-10 miles from one end to the other; pop
> 55,000), so I don't expect to go below 50% DOD very often. That should 
> help
> with the life of these.
>
> 2) I went with 12V batteries rather than 6V or 8V because (unlike some) I
> am extremely uncomfortable with the idea of exceeding GVWR but wanted the
> possibility of traveling at highway speeds.
>
> 3) My "Volt Colt" (http://www.evalbum.com/1974) is anything but slow. 
> The
> guys who did the conversion for us had it up to 65 mph already with a bit 
> of
> room to spare and it has pretty good accelaration (I bought the donor with 
> a
> blown ICE so I can't say how it compares to before). I've not had it 
> above
> 35 myself so far as I do want to be kind to the batteries for the first
> while.
>
> - Peter
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Peter
Can you tell us what make and model the batteries are? ( what does it say on
the case?)

Phil Marino



> SLPinfo.org <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > They are "deep cycle" type batteries - I'm guessing the word 'conventional'
> > threw you off. I didn't mean to imply that they were regular car starting
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland,

I do appreciate the input - you asnd many others here seem to be very
generous of your time and expertise. But quite frankly all the math and
engineering sort of bores me. We got the car because we're concerned
about the environment and not because we enjoy the engineering side of
it. I'm not a tinkerer. For me the car is transportation, not a science
project. The less I have to work on it, the better I like it. That's why I
hired someone else to do the conversion.

Sorry I don't mean to sound sarcastic or critical of folks on the list who
see it differently, but that's just how I feel. More power to those of you
who do see it differently and I wouldn't be getting such good advice if you
didn't.

>From what you and others have said, the bottom line seems to be that I have
to be careful about how I treat the batteries and it sounds like I'll get a
shorter life span for them than I had hoped for. OK I get that.

Anyway, we've gotten distracted here - still not sure I have an answer to my
original questions:

1. Is it worth bothering with a short equalization charge each time I
charge them?
2. If so, (or even if I only equalize occassionally) what equalization
current should I aim for?

- Peter





> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Peter,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Centennial Battery model DC-31 - rated for 130 AH. RC 225 minutes at 25
amps.

- Peter



> Phil Marino <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Peter
> > Can you tell us what make and model the batteries are? ( what does it say
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry David, I missed this one first time through. I just read Lee Hart's
piece and it is very helpful.

- Peter


> For equalization information, I recommend that you read Lee Hart's basic
> charging instructions here :
>
> http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

EVers were killing marine batteries back in the day of 400 amp Curtis 
controllers, and you have a 750 amp box under the hood. Yikes. I can hear 
your batteries whimpering from here. ;-)

I'd suggest keeping a close watch on the ammeter; see if you can keep your 
battery current under 300 amps -- better yet, under 200 amps. 

Also, do your best to keep them cool in the summer. 

Keeping them above 50% DOD certainly won't hurt. I don't know if any of the 
manufacturers publishes cycle life number for flooded marine batteries any 
more, but most of them used to be rated at 300 cycles. That's in "normal" 
use (as in "on a boat").

The main thing is to keep that right foot tightly reined in, if you want to 
get the best possible life out of those batteries. 

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David,

By those guidelines, as long as you don't count the initial surge in amps
when pulling away from a stop, we've been doing OK on the amps so far.
Neither my wife nor I have a lead foot (I've even started reading
about "hypermiling"). The gauge does peak at about 400 amps when we pull
away, but drops very quickly to below 300 and after we get to cuising speed
(30 mph) it settles down to 175-200 amps.

I have plans for battery box covers (to be built soon) that will be made of
rigid (pink) foam and covered on the outside with radiant foil (leftover
from insulating the garage door). I'm thinking it will look pretty cool and
it should help reflect some of the outside summer heat away from the
batteries. Or were you thinking of the heat generated by the batteries
themselves?

- Peter



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > EVers were killing marine batteries back in the day of 400 amp Curtis
> > controllers, and you have a 750 amp box under the hood. Yikes. I can hear
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> as long as you don't count the initial surge in amps when pulling away
> from a stop ... 

No, sorry, I'm talking about limiting the current to 200-250 amps at any 
time. You could turn down the controller's current limit, but then you 
wouldn't have the acceleration available for emergency use. Just keep a 
very light foot and accelerate gradually.

> after we get to cuising speed (30 mph) it settles down to 175-200 amps. 

Are you sure about that? It's unusually high. With a 120v battery, you're 
using 21-24kw to go 30mph. That's 2-3 times as much power as you should be 
using in a small car like that. 

Something may be wrong. Could be a brake dragging, wheels out of alignment 
(toe should be zero), tires not well chosen and/or severely underinflated, 
bad wheel bearing, possibly even a defective motor or transaxle, maybe a 
combination of the above causes. 

Make sure the car rolls easily; you should be able to push it with one hand 
when it's on flat ground. (Have someone in the car to hit the brakes!)

You may also be driving in too high a gear. Unlike an ICE, you want to stay 
in the LOWEST gear possible for best efficiency. At 30mph with a typical 
small car manual transaxle, you should probably be in second gear. You 
won't get into 4th until you're on the highway, and probably won't ever use 
fifth.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Peter,

I assume these amps measurements are on the motor side?
Otherwise they are *way* to high for the battery side amps.
it's the battery side amps we're interested in.

Matt 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Sunday, 25 January 2009 8:16 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Equalization charge on floodies?

David,

By those guidelines, as long as you don't count the initial surge in amps
when pulling away from a stop, we've been doing OK on the amps so far.
Neither my wife nor I have a lead foot (I've even started reading about
"hypermiling"). The gauge does peak at about 400 amps when we pull away,
but drops very quickly to below 300 and after we get to cuising speed (30
mph) it settles down to 175-200 amps.

I have plans for battery box covers (to be built soon) that will be made of
rigid (pink) foam and covered on the outside with radiant foil (leftover
from insulating the garage door). I'm thinking it will look pretty cool and
it should help reflect some of the outside summer heat away from the
batteries. Or were you thinking of the heat generated by the batteries
themselves?

- Peter



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > EVers were killing marine batteries back in the day of 400 amp Curtis
> > controllers, and you have a 750 amp box under the hood. Yikes. I can
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have no clue. I didn't do the conversion myself. I just know what my amp
gauge reads.

- Peter



> matt <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
>
> > after we get to cuising speed (30 mph) it settles down to 175-200 amps.
>
> Are you sure about that? It's unusually high. With a 120v battery, you're
> using 21-24kw to go 30mph. That's 2-3 times as much power as you should be
> using in a small car like that.



And yet ~200 amps is what Mike Brown says in his book "Convert It" that you
should be seeing when cruising. But I don't know if he's talking motor amps
or battery amps (and I don't know what I'm seeing on my amp gauge as I
didn't do the conversion).



>Something may be wrong. Could be a brake dragging, wheels out of alignment
(toe should be zero), tires not well chosen and/or >severely underinflated,
bad wheel bearing, possibly even a defective motor or transaxle, maybe a
combination of the above causes.


Had brakes checked (and rear ones replaced) during the conversion. One of
Carl's staff is a former ICE mechanic. I just checked the tires yesterday
and they are at max allowable (35 psi in this case). They are the Toyo
Spectrum's that were on the car when I bought (still lots of tread left).
Have been thinking about allignment and may just try the method David D.
suggested the other day to check it (not sure if I'm up for adjusting it
myself though). I'm hoping it isn't the motor or transaxle.



>
>
> Make sure the car rolls easily; you should be able to push it with one hand
> when it's on flat ground. (Have someone in the car to hit the brakes!)


Good suggestion - will try it out.


>
>
> You may also be driving in too high a gear. Unlike an ICE, you want to
> stay in the LOWEST gear possible for best efficiency. At 30mph with a
> typical small car manual transaxle, you should probably be in second gear.
> You won't get into 4th until you're on the highway, and probably won't ever
> use fifth.


Possible. I've been starting out in 2nd but switching to 3rd when I hit
about 30 mph.


>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I read David's post as saying that 24 kw required to go 30 mph 
calculated as battery voltage times battery current is too high.

Wouldn't the actual kw used to move the vehicle be voltage to motor 
times current to motor?

John




> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > - Peter wrote:
> >> after we get to cuising speed (30 mph) it settles down to 175-200
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 25 Jan 2009 at 21:43, John in Ma wrote:
> 
> > Wouldn't the actual kw used to move the vehicle be voltage to motor
> > times current to motor?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

John -
You're right, but, since controllers are generally very efficient ( 98 -99
% range) the power out of the controller ( motor voltage x motor current) is
very close to the power into the controller ( battery voltage x battery
current).

Phil Marino
Rochester,NY



> John in Ma <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I read David's post as saying that 24 kw required to go 30 mph
> > calculated as battery voltage times battery current is too high.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think this is almost a monumental occasion. We do tend to assume 
tinkers only because for a long time, that was pretty much the way it 
is. Here is proof that acceptance of EV's is now getting out there 
beyond us engineer types.

Excellent!

> Roland,
>
> I do appreciate the input - you asnd many others here seem to be very
> generous of your time and expertise. But quite frankly all the math and
> engineering sort of bores me. We got the car because we're concerned
> about the environment and not because we enjoy the engineering side of
> it. I'm not a tinkerer. For me the car is transportation, not a science
> project. The less I have to work on it, the better I like it. That's why I
> hired someone else to do the conversion.
>
> Sorry I don't mean to sound sarcastic or critical of folks on the list who
> see it differently, but that's just how I feel. More power to those of you
> who do see it differently and I wouldn't be getting such good advice if you
> didn't.
>
> >From what you and others have said, the bottom line seems to be that I have
> to be careful about how I treat the batteries and it sounds like I'll get a
> shorter life span for them than I had hoped for. OK I get that.
>
> Anyway, we've gotten distracted here - still not sure I have an answer to my
> original questions:
>
> 1. Is it worth bothering with a short equalization charge each time I
> charge them?
> 2. If so, (or even if I only equalize occassionally) what equalization
> current should I aim for?
>
> - Peter
> 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 26 Jan 2009 at 6:56, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > Here is proof that acceptance of EV's is now getting out there beyond
> > us engineer types.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey folks,

As always I'm surprised at how much response is generated by what I thought
were simple questions. But that's good! I do appreciate eveyone taking
their valuable time to try to help.

It was a busy weekend and I've hardly had time to even look at the car, but
I did manage to see that YES I can get it to roll easily on flat ground (in
the garage, there's 4" of snow outside right now) by pushing with one hand.
>From most of the input so far that sounds like a good thing. Will try to
see if can trace the wiring to find out if my meter is measuring "battery
current" or "motor current" and hopefully do the measurements to check
allignment.

btw - because of the snow, the car is temporarily grounded (using the
gas-powered Civic for now). I still don't have my battery covers built and
(call me paranoid if you want to but) I'm not going to take it out on wet or
snowy roads until I at least get the engine compartment closed in
underneath. Actually I'm shooting for a complete belly pan if I can.

- Peter Flipsen Jr
Pocatello, ID



> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I think this is almost a monumental occasion. We do tend to assume
> > tinkers only because for a long time, that was pretty much the way it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Peter,

It is simple to see if you have a battery or motor
current meter.
When you drive away, the initial part just when you
start moving should use very little battery current
because the motor has a very low voltage and even at
may throttle (current limit for the motor, say 500A)
your battery is likely supplying only around 100A
and it is climbing with the speed, because the motor
voltage is climbing so the motor is getting more
and more power unless you are throttling the motor
current back.

So, if the current meter pegs immediately when you
hit the accelerator then you can trust it is motor
amps it is measuring.
If the amp meter slowly climbs higher and higher
with increasing vehicle speed while you hold the 
throttle steady then you are seeing battery amps.

BTW, as long as the car is in the garage due to
snow, it may be easier to look for the shunt,
that should look like a stack of metal strips
mounted on a non-conductive block with two fat
and two thin wires attached. The thin wires go to
the meter, the fat wires go to controller and
motor or battery. Just see if it connects to the
M or B terminal on the controller, or follow the
other wire from shunt to either motor or battery.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:31 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Equalization charge on floodies?

Hey folks,

As always I'm surprised at how much response is generated by what I
thought
were simple questions. But that's good! I do appreciate eveyone taking
their valuable time to try to help.

It was a busy weekend and I've hardly had time to even look at the car,
but
I did manage to see that YES I can get it to roll easily on flat ground
(in
the garage, there's 4" of snow outside right now) by pushing with one
hand.
>From most of the input so far that sounds like a good thing. Will try
to
see if can trace the wiring to find out if my meter is measuring
"battery
current" or "motor current" and hopefully do the measurements to check
allignment.

btw - because of the snow, the car is temporarily grounded (using the
gas-powered Civic for now). I still don't have my battery covers built
and
(call me paranoid if you want to but) I'm not going to take it out on
wet or
snowy roads until I at least get the engine compartment closed in
underneath. Actually I'm shooting for a complete belly pan if I can.

- Peter Flipsen Jr
Pocatello, ID

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > I think this is almost a monumental occasion. We do tend to assume
> > tinkers only because for a long time, that was pretty much the way it
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Cor,

Thanks - the meter defintely pegs up to max as soon as I step on the
accelerator and then drops over time. Sounds like motor current to me.

Given what you and other folks have been saying about my "questionable"
choice of batteries (made mostly to keep costs down), it sounds like I
should change the connection from the shunt to the controller over to the B
terminal? Would that be enough to do it?

- Peter

btw - with a name like yours, I'm guessing you're Dutch. My parents
immigrated (to Canada) from the Netherlands (Amsterdam and Opdam) and my
wife is from Haarlem.



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yep, born and grew up in The Netherlands (or Holland as
most foreigners know it, even though officially that is
only 2 of the 12 Provinces of this small country, kind of
the opposite as referring to the USA as "America".
More like referring to the UK as "England" actually.

I have lived in California since 5 years but now spend
most my time in India.
Already thought that your name was Dutch too, but I did
not want to start ;-}

You should see the shunt as an integral part of the wire,
even though there is a tiny resistance to allow measuring
the current, the wire from the controller to the shunt, the
shunt itself and the wire attached to the other side can all
be seen as one compound conductor.
In your case, this conductor connects the motor to the 
controller.
To move the shunt to the battery side, you need to 
disconnect the wire that runs from the motor to the shunt,
take it from the shunt and connect it at the controller
at the same spot where now the other wire from the shunt
attaches.
This way you have replaced the compound conductor with a
single wire again, so now you have the shunt + wire that
you can mount in between a wire from the battery pack to
the controller, by disconnecting a wire from the controller
and attaching the shunt wire in its place, then connect the
battery wire to the other side of the shunt.

In case your amp meter tried to wrap itself around the
zero-pin then you have reversed the current through the
shunt. Simply swap either the two fat wires on the shunt
or the two thin wires.
The shunt itself does not care which way current flows any
more than a wire cares about it (in fact, you can use a
piece of wire with known resistance as shunt) so you can
flip the two connections of the meter back or the two
connections of the battery current to make the meter
point in the other direction.

BTW, some people like to be able to measure pack and
motor current, so they mount a second shunt and then
connect the two shunts' meter outputs to a double pole
double throw switch so they can flip back and forth to
read either current on the same meter.
Just make sure that the switch always breaks before
make or you may be shorting the pack, unless you make
sure that both shunts connect to the common contact on
your controller, either the B+ and M+ are combined or
the B- and M- dependent on your controller.
In that case you are still shorting across the shunt
but there should be no more than 50mV on the thin
wiring so there is not much current going to flow ;-)

I can make a drawing if I completely confused you now,
just let me know which solution you want to see.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:42 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Equalization charge on floodies?

Cor,

Thanks - the meter defintely pegs up to max as soon as I step on the
accelerator and then drops over time. Sounds like motor current to me.

Given what you and other folks have been saying about my "questionable"
choice of batteries (made mostly to keep costs down), it sounds like I
should change the connection from the shunt to the controller over to
the B
terminal? Would that be enough to do it?

- Peter

btw - with a name like yours, I'm guessing you're Dutch. My parents
immigrated (to Canada) from the Netherlands (Amsterdam and Opdam) and my
wife is from Haarlem.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks.
Lots to work with and digest. Will let you know if I need anything else.
- Peter
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