# Review: Chinoz PFC Charger



## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Can you post some pics? Maybe overall pic and some closeups on connections, labels, indicators, etc?

Does it have dual voltage input? Like 120/240 VAC?

Thanks for a nice review! I especially like the BMS input, sadly even some expensive chargers don't have it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi Clint, thanks for starting this thread. Overall, I think this is a good unit. It's the lack of info that hurts it.... It did come with a spec sheet... I wouldn't call it a manual. It has some info...but nearly enough. No wiring diagram. No info about some the the features at all. It was apparently based on the DeltaQ design. 

As you know, I bought the same charger...only the 6 kw version for 192 volt pack. I like everything about it ( as much as I know ) with out using it. It has dual voltage input 120/240 VAC. It is high effeciency PFC, switch mode design. It is also isolated secondary I'm told. I have more info, that is not handy right now and will post later. TJ4 has also bought this brand and we have been conversing a bit. I am very disappointed in the lack of documentation ...this is my big beef. I also bought through EVComponents and so far it has been only promises. I have a hard time to accept this unit without the proper info. (sorry guys... I know you are trying...but it does little to help me.... you have the purchasing power to demand this gets supplied) One of my big concerns is WRT the correct battery algorithm. 
There are a number of LED flashes upon power up to determine the loaded algorithm. One of the reasons I wanted a good charger was to get the most life from my batteries. I can't even confirm what is loaded in it. The printing on the side of the unit says to ensure proper program is loaded for the intended battery.  Not kewl.... I have plenty of pics.... have to be tomorrow though..


----------



## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

I've attached 2 pictures.

The first one is of my setup. You can see the temperature sensor professionally (yeah, right) taped to the batteries, 9V battery, and work-around BMS switch.

In the second picture you can see the business end of the charger and the connector that it comes with.


----------



## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

The large grey connector looks to be a standard issue 50A anderson connector. The cheapest way I have found to get these is to salvage them from old computer UPSes. However better hardware stores and any decent online electronic component retailer will have them too. or, go straight to the source:

http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-sb.html


----------



## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Hmm.... you guys didn't get the manual for these chargers. I think this is the manual. I got it from some reseller, can't recall who at the moment. Looks like same chargers, although no data about BMS input.

Hope this helps.

I'm concerned about lack of cooling on these, as I also heard from other people that these chargers get very hot. They even have fans starting with 4.5kW model I think, but not on smaller ones. I would try to attach a small AC fan to the fins and wire in parallel with AC line.

View attachment 1 5KW-16KW HF-PFC Charger Manuals.pdf


----------



## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

Clint, thanks for the info. I have a 120v pack and will probably be using mine for the first time tonight.


----------



## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

dimitri said:


> Hmm.... you guys didn't get the manual for these chargers. I think this is the manual. I got it from some reseller, can't recall who at the moment. Looks like same chargers, although no data about BMS input.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ...


Nice find on the manual. It looks like the same info on the 2 page handout that came with the charger, except yours includes info on the charger interlock. I'd still like to see the different charging curves.

The charger actually cools off quite quickly after it's done. I've been leaving my trunk open though to ensure there is plenty of cool Phoenix air  flowing around it.


----------



## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

The interlock function is very poorly explained in the manual. It provides 0V to the coil of a relay when charging, but what about when it is not charging? I am guessing pack voltage comes out? Should I assume that 0V is referenced to the traction pack, since that is the only connection? 

It wouldn't have taken much to explain that a little better.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm more curious about how these are field programmable..... where's the programming cable?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Dimitri for the manual, it's better than what I had. I agree Frodus... the issue of field programming is open. Apparently, you can change the algorithm but only by selecting one of the ten that are loaded into it's memory. If the curve u want is not loaded...then what? I would be happy to know about the ten that are loaded...as a start....

(Mine has 4 fans built in). Yes, the connector is standard Anderson.. or at least a "knock off" that works with it, not sure.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Mine looks like this....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, apparently... this charger was based on the DeltaQ charger. Here (attached, came from TJ4) is a blurb on checking/changing the algorithm of that unit. (It has a different LED layout though...so, not sure if it is applicable.)

Now, on my unit, there is a software revision sticker and a couple of others...one of which I must assume details the 10 profiles loaded on the particular charger. The document listing this info would be of great help!


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

ClintK, thanks for starting this topic.

Here are the current chargers that we have listed. 

http://www.evcomponents.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=49

We have more higher power chargers coming from two different suppliers in China. If you need something more powerful than what is currently listed, ask Dave or Stephen. They have the list of what is coming, but it is not yet on the website.

[email protected]
[email protected]

Thanks,
James Morrison


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I know they're a knock off of deltaQ. I wonder if they can be programmed the same way.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

frodus said:


> I've got, in my hands, a deltaq programmer. I'm curious to see if it detects the Chinoz charger.


No kidding. What can you actually do with it? (I know, program it..lol) but specifically... can you load other algorithms?.... Can you describe how it connects etc? Do you have a manual for it? 

Thanks,


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

EVComponents said:


> ClintK, thanks for starting this topic.
> 
> Here are the current chargers that we have listed.
> 
> ...


Hey James, So... how are you guys making out with that manual that was suppose to be available in a "few days". Sorry, but I'm anxious. 

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Hey James, So... how are you guys making out with that manual that was suppose to be available in a "few days". Sorry, but I'm anxious.
> 
> Cheers,
> Gary


Contact Dave or Stephen if you need help with your charger.

Thanks


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> No kidding. What can you actually do with it? (I know, program it..lol) but specifically... can you load other algorithms?.... Can you describe how it connects etc? Do you have a manual for it?
> 
> Thanks,


For the deltaQ, You need to get algorithms from DeltaQ, you cannot modify them yourself. You can only have 10 in at a time. You upload what algorithm you have, and then set it to "default" and then unplug, replug and make sure it registered. Thats it. Took me 30 seconds to go from a 32 cell to a 30 cell charge profile.

I don't know if this works with other chargers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

EVComponents said:


> Contact Dave or Stephen if you need help with your charger.
> 
> Thanks


Yes, thanks.. .I've done that several times. So far I haven't received much. 

I would like to address another point. Before purchase, I asked if this unit had an isolated secondary circuit. Dave checked and got back to me saying it was. I've recently heard (hope it's wrong) that the secondary side is not isolated. Can anyone confirm?

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Another tid bit...specifically on my unit.....


----------



## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

Yesterday I used my charger to fully charge my pack. At the end of the charge I was measuring a pack voltage of 136v (3.57v per cell) This morning my battery pack is sitting at 128.6v. The charger did get pretty warm but I could still hold my hand on it during charge. It was in the mid 60s here yesterday. 

I have the BMS input connected to a 9v battery just as Clint described earlier. I wondering though if anyone knows what the input range of this is? Is 12v from my accessory battery going to be a problem. I would like to wire it through a charge interlock switch on the outlet.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

petenyma said:


> I have the BMS input connected to a 9v battery just as Clint described earlier. I wondering though if anyone knows what the input range of this is? Is 12v from my accessory battery going to be a problem. I would like to wire it through a charge interlock switch on the outlet.


I was told by EVComponents to wire this to 12 volts. I don't have a wiring diagram to back that up. Somewhere I also read that the amperage must be limited to 2 amps.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

OK, I've been doing some digging. I started with EV Components because this is who I bought it from. I had a fair amount of corresondence prior to purchase, and they answered my questions promptly. After purchase however, was a different story. I had several concerns and I must say that I did receive some answers, although I did not get all questions answered. I never received any more documentation from the manufacturer. I was told by EVComponents, that they are too busy managing growth.

I contacted Greg McCrea from Elcon/Zivan as I heard there was a connection although I did not know what/how. Even though he did not sell me the charger, he has been really helpful trying to get to bottom of my concerns. He also shared more info that I will cover further on.

I finally found the factory contact, I'm not sure of his position... but he obviously knows a lot. Our conversations started off with some very short and not-helpful answers. Finally, my last message to him is posted below, this one got a very good reply.....

Qote;
There is something you are not understanding. I paid a lot of money for this charger to charge the batteries in my electric vehicle. I cannot use it because I do not know what battery it is programmed for! I provided only the type of battery to the seller, no one asked me about the size of battery before I ordered so, how should I assume it is correct?

You said each charger is shipped with a sheet showing the 10 profiles programmed in the unit. I DID NOT RECEIVE THIS SHEET! If I have this sheet I can determine which battery it is set for and if it is wrong, I can change it with the procedure shown in your manual. Your manual describes the process of how to select different profiles. I also spoke with Gregory McCrea from Elcon/Zivan in the USA. He told me that they also supply this sheet with the chargers they sell. I bought my charger through EVComponents and they seem to have no knowledge of this. No sheet was in the box with my charger.

Using this charger is the part that is most important to me now. If I do change to Lithium batteries it will only be in the future after these batteries are worn out.

You said " We have no 5VDC input." Please look at the attached picture. It says "5vdc INPUT". This is a RED wire not GREEN wire! It is paired with a YELLOW wire for ground. Your manual has no description of this function. What am I missing? I was told this unit will not work without voltage applied to this circuit. You need a manual that describes all the features of you product, this includes wiring diagrams of all functions. Should I just guess what to use it for and perhaps cause damage?

Finally, if I do change to lithium batteries, you are saying that I must send this charger all the way back to China? You must be kidding me. Do you not have any qualified service representative on this continent? It cost me more than 3000 Yuan just for the SHIPPING and HANDLING to get this charger into Canada, not including the purchase price. Do you think I should ship it back to China to check the charge profile? 

Your web site says the following, "*With its excellent quality, good faith and perfect after sales service, they have been trusted and recommended by worldwide customers*". Please understand, I am part of a very large forum of people who convert vehicles to electric power. We are always looking for better equipment. There are many people interested in the performance of your product. I will give a review to many people of performance, service, ease of use, ability to upgrade etc. after I install and use this charger. My review, and the experience of other users, will directly impact your ability to sell all of your products into this market. I have no interest for any purpose other than to use this unit and charge my batteries.
Please help me use this charger I bought from your company.

Frustrated in Canada........
Edit.... my first several msgs to them were really polite! honest! lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Below is the reply.. (it's easier than re-typing...lol) especially "jinglish"... 

Hi Gary
Really sorry for the inconvenience. I'll try to explan the whole thing after carefully investigation.
CHINOZ is an Australian company who has its purchasing office in Qingdao of China. The branch office is responsible for purchasing all kind of Electric Vehicle Parts and bought some sample of our PFC Chargers (our brand ElCon) in the middle of July. From the pictures you sent I found they rip off our ElCon sticker and website converting to "CHINOZ made in China". We haven't realized this until saw your photos.

This is the way things went:---
On July, when they started to order the 6KW TCCH-192V-27A Charger, they requested to use it for 60 cells Lithium Battery, then we used Lithium battery software to program and use our CAN communication protocol for connecting BMS. As to Lithium Battery, the charger can work normally if there is +5V input and can't work if no +5V input. That's what the attached two stickers be used for and only used for Lithium battery rather than Lead-acid battery.
Regarding Lithium battery, there are no 10 AH settings. As I said, the charging process is controlled by BMS. So a CAN bus interface is needed to connect with the charger and BMS.

When they got our charger on hand, they said their customer need it to charge Lead-acid-AGM Battery (60AH). As you know we use different softwares for programming Lithium battery and Lead-acid battery. The only way to solve this problem was to return the charger back and we re-program for it. Then it was re-programed until they returned them back and they were also in urgent need. Actually, two stickers should be removed. However, we were arranging the moving of our factory at that time and everything in workplant was in chaos. I suppose the responsible worker forgot to remove the useless stickers, that's why they were still on your charger.

For the 10 (AH settings) profiles of this AGM battery, please refer to below:
AGM, 192V, we selected curve 4 at the time we made*1**2*3*4*5678910192V192V192V192V192V192V192V192V192V192V125AH150AH180AH216AH260AH311AH373AH447AH537AH644AH
According to your 135AH AGM battery, you'd better select curve 1 or curve 2.
Method for selecting.
1.The LED will flash red several times when AC is first connected, then the LED will flash green once. The number of red flashes denotes the present curve. E.g. If the red flashes three times, it means the present curve is curve 3.
2.To choose another curve, please cut off the power supply first, then unpeel the label, pressing the button while connecting the power. If you want to choose curve 3, release the button after the 3rd LED Flash. Now the selected curve (e.g. curve 3) will be recorded in memory. If you want the charger to work with the selected curve (e.g. curve 3), cut off the power and reconnect it.


The major problem was Chinoz was not familiar with our chargers. There must be something wrong in the information transmission between their customers. We can program chargers at the factory before delivery and can use different softwares for different battery chargers which customers cann't do by themselves.
"With its excellent quality, good faith and perfect after sales service, they have been trusted and recommended by worldwide customers". 
We always require detailed information from customer before arranging the production. We'll make great effort for helping you. 

I am awefully sorry for this.

So, needless to say, I was very impressed with the honesty and willingness to help and I thought it was deserving to post this info here. This is an ELCON charger, re-sold to Chinoz. Chinoz sold to others (figure it out). Problem was, neither Chinoz or it's re-seller knew the details of the product they were selling. The end user gets screwed the way I see it. On the other hand, Elcon/Zivan CAN reprogram your "Chinoz" chargers if the algorithm you need is not one of the 10 currently loaded on your charger. 

Additionally.... This charger DOES have an isolated secondary circuit!

The green interlock wire can use 12 volts.

The 5VDC connection was meant for Elcon BMS input (I have enquired about details of it and charging Li without it). It is not suppose to be present for L-A chargers. If it is there, you may need to power it. 

I still think it is a good unit...although, I have no experience with it yet..lol 

I hope this information helps some folks out there. 

As for EVComponents, I'm sorry to have to give you a failing grade on this one particular endeavor. I still think you guys do a good job for most folks most of the time. I know you have gotten very good reviews from many folks. Message here is, make sure you know what you are selling and make sure you look after customers the best you can.

EDIT... sorry, the chart didn't come out right. If anyone needs it, I will pm it or find a way to post it correcly....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

petenyma said:


> Clint, thanks for the info. I have a 120v pack and will probably be using mine for the first time tonight.


What battery/chemisty and AH are you using?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

This is the BMS that Elcon uses.... looks interesting.

http://www.guantuo.com/Products.aspx?i=12#Menu=ChildMenu2


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> ...So, needless to say, I was very impressed with the honesty and willingness to help and I thought it was deserving to post this info here. This is an ELCON charger, re-sold to Chinoz. Chinoz sold to others (figure it out). Problem was, neither Chinoz or it's re-seller knew the details of the product they were selling. The end user gets screwed the way I see it. On the other hand, Elcon/Zivan CAN reprogram your "Chinoz" chargers if the algorithm you need is not one of the 10 currently loaded on your charger.


I recently bought a 6KW charger from Chinoz (now Chennic) and the seller in China was very patient and helpful and was in contact with the engineer concerning my battery profile. Hopefully, I gave the correct information so they could configure the charger correctly. 

Chennic is in the process of rebuilding their website. I don't think you could find Chinoz anymore.

The transaction was handled professionally,packaged extremely well and shipped quickly. Once it made it to the states within a week of ordering, it tracked through DHL and UPS to get to me.

I did have concerns on future reprogramming of the algorithms in case I didn't give the proper information or wanted to go to a different battery type or system voltage. 

The company that sold me my charger was checking into how it could be reprogrammed in the future but hadn't come up with an answer yet. I did see somewhere on an EVDL search that a USB dongle could be used to load programs at the field level.

It would be great if these PFC units (no matter what distributor's sticker ends up on them) could be sent back locally to Elcon for future reprogramming. I wouldn't mind paying a modest reprogramming charge for future use. This "field adjustability" was a major reason I purchased this unit in the first place. Another was the ablitity to use an OTC 5.Kw generator to provide power through the charger as an on-board range extender until I get my big 30Kw trailer setup built (someday).

It is also nice to know that the charger has an isolated secondary as getting zapped while charging was a worry for me with the PFC chargers.

Thanks for posting the info Gary. The more info we can get about these PFC chargers the better for everyone.


----------



## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

Im sory we were not able to be of more help to you Gary. I know that both Stephen and I did try to answer the questions you had as best we could. Im sure you can see now where some of the confusion came from after speaking to the rep from Elcon. We had originally be purchasing from Chinoz thinking they were the manufacturer. It was not until recently that we found out that Elcon is the real manufacturer and I have asked them for a more comprehensive manual to avoid situations like this in the future. I have not recieved this manual from them yet but as soon as I do I will be sending a copy to everyone that has purchased these chargers from us. We are doing our best to provide the best customer service to our customers and more often than not we are up well past midnight trying to answer all of the emails that we recieve on a daily basis. Im sory that we got a failing grade from you in this particular case but it was not for lack of trying to get you the information

Dave Kois
EV Components, LLC
http://www.evcomponents.com
360-915-7415 office
253-988-5020 cell
Skype dkoisii


----------



## facts (Nov 22, 2009)

I have been reading with interest your comments about the "Chinoz" battery charger and in particular the lack of any concise instructions. The fact is that these chargers are not manufactured by "Chinoz". 

Chinoz international Co Ltd. is a trading company and not a manufacturer.
Chinoz has no expertise whatsoever in relation to EV vehicles, parts or accessories-the company simply sourced them from chinese manufacturers and that is the reason why the so called instructions are somewhat lacking.

Whilst I believe these chargers are of high quality and manufactured by a reputable chinese company,this is another of those cases where anyone
making purchases from Chinese companies should take the time to do some
company research first--especially on free web sites.

Just putting a few facts to you readers


----------



## facts (Nov 22, 2009)

tj4fa said:


> I recently bought a 6KW charger from Chinoz (now Chennic) and the seller in China was very patient and helpful and was in contact with the engineer concerning my battery profile. Hopefully, I gave the correct information so they could configure the charger correctly.
> 
> Chennic is in the process of rebuilding their website. I don't think you could find Chinoz anymore.
> 
> ...



You are correct in saying you will not find "Chinoz" any more because as the managing Director of the company concerned I removed Miss Helen Walsh, Chen or whatever other name she used, and closed down that China side of my company. The reason was because of sheer dishonesty 
in many ways. She has nothing whatsoever to do with Chinoz.(CHINOZ INTERNATIONAL CO.LTD.)

She may well be rebuilding a web site under the name of Chennic but I can assure you it has nothing to do with my company and I would STRONGLY advise anyone that goes into that site, to check out the details and claims it makes. I personally had great difficulty in getting false sites and information removed from "free web sites' that she set up in the name of my company. Thats why Dave Kois was fooled by her, when I discovered what she was doing I notified David Kois at once, and to all you readers I can say that David came across to me as a genuine person, he believed
what he was told by 'Helen' so don't hold this against him. 

Just don,t believe all you read,many like her, simply work from home on computer most of the time, trying to find a buyer for whatever they can supply. As for ethics---forget it.

I hope this helps others to avoid some of the MANY pitfalls when making
purchases from China--remember the old saying (all that glitters is not gold)

Go to the big reputable companies that have proper web sites, but you can only buy from them in bulk of course.


----------



## facts (Nov 22, 2009)

tj4fa said:


> I recently bought a 6KW charger from Chinoz (now Chennic) and the seller in China was very patient and helpful and was in contact with the engineer concerning my battery profile. Hopefully, I gave the correct information so they could configure the charger correctly.
> 
> Chennic is in the process of rebuilding their website. I don't think you could find Chinoz anymore.
> 
> ...



You are correct in saying you will not find "Chinoz" any more because as the managing Director of the company concerned I removed Miss Helen Walsh, Chen or whatever other name she used, and closed down that China side of my company. The reason was because of sheer dishonesty 
in many ways. She has nothing whatsoever to do with Chinoz.(CHINOZ INTERNATIONAL CO.LTD.)

She may well be rebuilding a web site under the name of Chennic but I can assure you it has nothing to do with my company and I would STRONGLY advise anyone that goes into that site, to check out the details and claims it makes. I personally had great difficulty in getting false sites and information removed from "free web sites' that she set up in the name of my company. Thats why Dave Kois was fooled by her, when I discovered what she was doing I notified David Kois at once, and to all you readers I can say that David came across to me as a genuine person, he believed
what he was told by 'Helen' so don't hold this against him. 

Just don,t believe all you read,many like her, simply work from home on computer most of the time, trying to find a buyer for whatever they can supply. As for ethics---forget it.

I hope this helps others to avoid some of the MANY pitfalls when making
purchases from China--remember the old saying (all that glitters is not gold)

Go to the big reputable companies that have proper web sites, but you can only buy from them in bulk of course.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Double-post. You still may be able to edit and remove one of them in the "submit reply" option buttons.

Not to be facitious or anything but who are you and do you have a link to your company that produces the PFC charger?

I'm sure others like me who have PFC type chargers or are consider buying them (whoever/whatever name they are distributed by) would like a contact to have them reprogrammed if their charging conditions change without having to send them all the way back to China.

If that Helen person was truly dishonest, she could have just as well taken my money and provided nothing in return but that didn't happen and she never mis-represented herself as she said she was a distributor all along to me. My guess is that she pruchased them in bulk like other distibutors have and then re-branded them with her company logo -sort of like a major supermarket re-branding bags of sugar or cans of corn with their own product name.

I'm still confused with who really makes the chargers for - "Chinoz", "Chennic", "Delta-Q", "NetGain", "Elcon" ect. My interest now is finding someone duly authorized by the manufacturer so I can send it to in the future for reprogramming/servicing/product support. Of course I'd be willing to pay a resonable fee for this service from a reputable distributor or manufacturer other than regular warranty issues.


----------



## facts (Nov 22, 2009)

I am Peter Walsh, Managing Director of Chinoz international co ltd. This is NOT an Australian company, I formed it with Miss Chen (correct name shuyun Chen) in China and it is registered in Hong Kong. It is a trading company and she was also a director. Her job was to source goods in China and we sold them on as a trading company. Miss Chen unbeknown to me , set up free web sites giving completely false information, saying that we were manufacturers with factory and large work force. Even that we were ISO certified etc. She even made up false companies on these sites showing me as CEO. When I discovered this I had great difficulty getting them removed from Alibaba and tradekey. I removed miss Chen as director and had great difficulty in gaining access to my company bank account in China, and when I did, guess what?--empty. Now you can believe what you like, it matters not to me. As for her sending your goods, of course she would, she wants to build up her own business now, and she would have made her profit anyway. I am sorry I did not even know where she was getting the chargers from- I had no control over my China side, rather like being hi jacked. I doubt if she has a real company and I wonder what bank account she asked you to send money too, because she can no longer use Chinoz international co a/c. best of luck


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> I'm still confused with who really makes the chargers for - "Chinoz", "Chennic", "Delta-Q", "NetGain", "Elcon" ect. My interest now is finding someone duly authorized by the manufacturer so I can send it to in the future for reprogramming/servicing/product support. Of course I'd be willing to pay a resonable fee for this service from a reputable distributor or manufacturer other than regular warranty issues.


These are Elcon chargers, Chinoz, Chennic, anyways...made by Elcon China. The Delta-Q is another company I think. There is some opinion that the design was "borrowed" ...lol

Anyways, Elcon USA can reprogram these for a nominal fee.... Thats Gregory McCrea of Elcon/Zivan USA....


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

The chargers we are selling now on EV Components will be Elcon or Manzanita Micro.


----------



## Russco (Dec 23, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> These are Elcon chargers, Chinoz, Chennic, anyways...made by Elcon China. The Delta-Q is another company I think. There is some opinion that the design was "borrowed" ...lol
> 
> Anyways, Elcon USA can reprogram these for a nominal fee.... Thats Gregory McCrea of Elcon/Zivan USA....


Elcon is a company in Sacramento, California, owned by Greg McCrea. Elcon is an importer of chargers like the Zivan. Elcon does not manufacture chargers. The Chinese charger under discussion is manufactured in China and called the PFCxxxx and has Elcon's name on it. The Chinese company will also sell the same charger direct to you with your name on it, if you desire.

The Delta Q charger is the yellow charger sold by Delta Q of Canada and is also manufactured in China. The same company that makes the PFCxxxx in China copied the origional yellow Delta Q charger. Looks the exact same but does not say Delta Q on the enclosure. This information is from Roger of EVDL fame, who works for the real Delta Q.

In my opinion, beware of this Chinese stuff. There's a lot of copying, poor documentation, and just garbage out there. You get what you pay for. I know, I manufacture Russco Chargers, made in the USA.


----------



## helenchen (Nov 25, 2009)

Hello all,

Here is Helen Chen who sells these "CHINOZ" chargers to EV Components. Thanks for interested in these chargers. And sorry for not sending proper information you need. I used to contact David by skype and recently have not found him on line. Just found that he was in hospital. That is really sad news. Sorry to see you have so many questions with the chargers and have waited so long. In order to not let you wait more just come to give some information. 

1. The connector comes with charger is a standard 50A Anderson connector.
2. Temperature Sensor: It is designed specially for Lead-acid battery charger, if you are using charger for LiFePO4 battery, then you can go without this sensor.
3. These chargers do have isolated secondary circuit.
4. Fans for these chargers are available if chargers are over 3KW. 
5. Inter-lock function is a function to prevent the car from being started when it is charging. When the charger is free, the contractor inside of charger will make green and red being connected automatically, you can start the car; when the charger is under charging the contractor inside of charger will not connect green wire with red wire, and then circuit is open. The car can not be started, which is an optional function. And the contractor inside of charger will connect or disconnect the red and green wire automatically. So if you need this function, just connect the green wire (current should not exceed 2A) with main solenoid, DC/DC converter, controller or other control wires. Enclosed chart is for reference only.
6. BMS input. These chargers (For LiFePO4 battery) do have BMS input. But it will not match Elithion BMS System (if anyone need the charger match Elithion BMS System, please confirm before ordering).The "CHINOZ" chargers you bought were designed to connected without BMS. But to protect your LiFePO4 batteries, the chargers are made according to this requirement “make the charger with the proper algorithm for the battery and have the ability to be shut off by a simple signal" .You can find wires (red and black thinner than wires to connect with traction battery) for BMS INPUT on your charger. If you are using battery protector board, please connect BMS INPUT with it. If you do not have, please hook it up 5-12VDC battery and switch. Connect Red line to positive side of battery, Black line to the switch/negative side of battery. Switch on before plugging in the charger, then switch off after charging. Enclosed chart is for reference only.
7. How to reprogram. If you want to change your battery type like from Lead-acid to LiFePO4 battery or contrarily, the charger need to be sent back to China, For Lead-acid and LiFePO4 battery charger use different software, only factory can reprogram. So it is better to decide battery type before order.
If you want to change battery voltage system, Then send the charger back to China(unless changing parts all the maintenance is for free) or to Gregory McCrea of ELCON / Electric Conversions(You will need to pay fees).For Lead-acid battery, you can choose proper curve for your battery from 10 existing curve. Method for selecting is as following: Firstly, The LED will flash red several times when AC is first connected, then the LED will flash green once. The number of red flashes denotes the present curve. E.g. If the red flashes three times, it means the present curve is curve 3.Secondly,To choose another curve, please cut off the power supply first, then unpeel the label, pressing the button while connecting the power. If you want to choose curve 3, release the button after the 3rd LED Flash. Now the selected curve (e.g. curve 3) will be recorded in memory. If you want the charger to work with the selected curve (e.g. curve 3), cut off the power and reconnect it. The default curve is curve 4.
8.10 Charging curve for Lead-acid battery. Regarding LiFePO4 battery, there are no 10 curve settings. Please check 10 curves for 192V/27A, 156V/33A, 144V/36A Lead-acid battery in attachment, if need other curves please leave message or contact.

If you have more questions please feel free to contact me when David is unavailable. My skype is chinozhelen1934.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Thank you. This is helpful information.


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

EV Components just today received 100 of the Elcon chargers in our warehouse (Seattle) available for immediate delivery. They are not yet on our website because we have a new website that will be released next Thursday. If you want to order one, contact Dave Kois ([email protected])

144v 6kw charger for LiFePO4 $1,695
144v 3kw charger for LiFePO4 $950
120v 3kw charger for LiFePO4 $950
144v 1.5kw charger for LiFePO4 $495 
144v 1.5kw charger for Lead acid $495
120v 1.5kw charger for LiFePO4 $495
120v 1.5kw charger for Lead acid $495
96v 1.5kw charger for LiFePO4 $495
96v 1.5kw charger for Lead acid $495
72v 1.5kw charger for LiFePO4 $495
72v 1.5kw charger for Lead acid $495
48v 1.5kw charger for LiFePO4 $495
48v 1.5kw charger for Lead acid $495
60v 1.5kw charger for LiFePO4 $495
60v 1.5kw charger for Lead acid $495


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Powered By DC said:


> I have asked them for a more comprehensive manual to avoid situations like this in the future. I have not recieved this manual from them yet but as soon as I do I will be sending a copy to everyone that has purchased these chargers from us. We are doing our best to provide the best customer service to our customers and more often than not we are up well past midnight trying to answer all of the emails that we recieve on a daily basis. Im sory that we got a failing grade from you in this particular case but it was not for lack of trying to get you the information
> 
> Dave Kois
> EV Components, LLC
> ...


Hi Dave,

I hope you received this "comprehensive manual" from Elcon with these 100 new chargers you have for sale. If you did, I would still like to receive my copy as mentioned above.

For the record, my 6kw charger has worked very well for me so far with no issues. It works great with the VoltBlochers. Soon as they all turn on the red shunt LED, the charger drops to next level for a few min then to float...


----------



## Duxuk (Jul 11, 2009)

I aquired my PFC1500 from Elcon since they were unable to supply a Zivan for 220/240VAC use. I am only just starting to test my EV so haven't done any deep discharges yet. In the <80% charge phase it reaches 88.7V, only 0.1V under the gassing point before the yellow overcharge light kicks in. I have heard that it can be reprogrammed to only over charge every 20 cycles instead of every cycle. This would have been better for me but wasn't suggested by Greg McCrea of Elcon. The user programmable curve only adjusts the ampage of the over charge so seems of little value. I will try setting mine to the minimum using the instructions in the reasonable manual to minimise water consumption. The charge voltage seems to vary in waves during charging, quickly falling then rising slowly. It seems to work OK and must be quite shock resistant since mine had been dropped in transit and had a bent bracket which I straightened.


----------



## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

Hi !

I'm trying to find some more info on the CANbus interface of these chargers. Can that be found somewhere. Anyone have any ideas.


Regards
/Per


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

pm_dawn said:


> Hi !
> 
> I'm trying to find some more info on the CANbus interface of these chargers. Can that be found somewhere. Anyone have any ideas.
> 
> ...


I believe I have the CANbus interface manual that for this charger. I have to go out now, but I will send it to you tomorrow.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Sorry for the delay. Here is the CANbus communication spec for the Elcon charger. 

link to BMS for Elcon... http://www.guantuo.com/Products.aspx...enu=ChildMenu2 

Also a pic of a 1.5kw charger with CANbus interface cable.

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

Hi !

Thanks a lot.

Regards
/Per


----------



## shoup (Feb 10, 2009)

Is this the same charger series discussed in this thread?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120462353206&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

If so, it seems like a very good price and I have not heard any complaints.


----------



## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

shoup said:


> Is this the same charger series discussed in this thread?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120462353206&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> If so, it seems like a very good price and I have not heard any complaints.


That is the charger being sold by BMSbattery.com, I have the same one. Haven't had a chance to use it yet but it got here in one piece and looks fine.

As for this thread did we ever figure out who actually produces these chargers? I remember seeing a link for the Chinese manufacturer but can't find it now.


----------

