# [EVDL] batteries and altitude



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Anyone have any info on the effect of altitude on batteries? I just moved
from Pocatello, ID (elev 4500 ft) to Meridian, ID (elev 2500 ft) and
wondered if my performance or range will be changed. I'm going from a very
hilly area to a much flatter area which I know will affect my range and
performance, but I wonder if the altitude change will contribute any as
well?

- Peter Flipsen Jr
http://www.evalbum.com/1974
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You'll have about 5% more air resistance, so you might lose a percent or two on range for freeway speeds -- but flatter terrain will more than likely make up for that.




________________________________
From: SLPinfo.org <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 1:28:40 PM
Subject: [EVDL] batteries and altitude

Anyone have any info on the effect of altitude on batteries? I just moved
from Pocatello, ID (elev 4500 ft) to Meridian, ID (elev 2500 ft) and
wondered if my performance or range will be changed. I'm going from a very
hilly area to a much flatter area which I know will affect my range and
performance, but I wonder if the altitude change will contribute any as
well?

- Peter Flipsen Jr
http://www.evalbum.com/1974



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The air is less dense so you should benefit from reduced aero drag, and being flat instead of hilly you'll likely see range benefit
because of that too. I don't think the altitude however will affect the batteries at all, however temperature will, if its colder
up higher ;-)

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SLPinfo.org
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:29 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] batteries and altitude
> 
> Anyone have any info on the effect of altitude on batteries? I just moved
> from Pocatello, ID (elev 4500 ft) to Meridian, ID (elev 2500 ft) and
> wondered if my performance or range will be changed. I'm going from a very
> hilly area to a much flatter area which I know will affect my range and
> performance, but I wonder if the altitude change will contribute any as
> well?
> 
> - Peter Flipsen Jr
> http://www.evalbum.com/1974
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My bad I read wrong. You're moving down in altitude 

More air resistance but flatter terrain. Offsetting penalties! Well you may gain a bit more by being on the flat that you will
lose with the slight increase in air density  depends on how fast you drive.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 2:36 PM
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: [EVDL] batteries and altitude
> 
> The air is less dense so you should benefit from reduced aero drag, and being flat instead of hilly you'll likely see
> range benefit because of that too. I don't think the altitude however will affect the batteries at all, however
> temperature will, if its colder up higher ;-)
> 
> Mike
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SLPinfo.org
> > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:29 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: [EVDL] batteries and altitude
> >
> > Anyone have any info on the effect of altitude on batteries? I just moved
> > from Pocatello, ID (elev 4500 ft) to Meridian, ID (elev 2500 ft) and
> > wondered if my performance or range will be changed. I'm going from a very
> > hilly area to a much flatter area which I know will affect my range and
> > performance, but I wonder if the altitude change will contribute any as
> > well?
> >
> > - Peter Flipsen Jr
> > http://www.evalbum.com/1974
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Speaking with the experience of a USAF electrical maintenance Sergent I can
tell you the altitude has no direct effect on battery capacity or operation,
however the reduced temperature at higher altitude does have a very
pronounced effect. And we used mostly sealed or valved storage batteries so
reduced atmospheric pressure did not increase evaporation rate of the liquid
electrolyte. We had more problems with graphite as a lubricant, as water
molecules captured between the flat plate structure of graphite (Much like
microscopic slate sheets ) is the active lubricant, and at higher altitude
the moisture would evaporate leaving the dry graphic to act as abrasive and
damage joints in aircraft structures.
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
It=92s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity
to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation=92s 217 million passenger vehicl=
es.
***************************************************************************=
************
*


> SLPinfo.org <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Anyone have any info on the effect of altitude on batteries? I just moved
> > from Pocatello, ID (elev 4500 ft) to Meridian, ID (elev 2500 ft) and
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Back when I first started messing with these EVs, I attended a racing event
that was being hosted by a guy named Bill Dube. I am thinking that this was
in 1997. The event was in at Bandimere Raceway, just a ways outside Denver
Colorado, with an altitude of just under 1 mile above sea level. I was told
by many of the attendees Roderick Wilde, Otmar Ebenhoech, Damon Crockett,
the Net Gain team, Dennis Berube, and others that they were experiencing
their best performances ever at this event. The factor that they credited
the most was the altitude, followed by the clean air with its low humidity.
It was made clear to me that altitude has no known effect on batteries or
electricity in general.
Hope that this helps. -Thos



> Lock Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Agree with terrain being more the factor. Average outdoor temps for
> > Meridian are a few degrees F warmer as well...
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I heard a story of an old Unique Mobility Electrek (the car, not the GE
tractor) that had made to the top of Pikes peak at 14,400 feet, from the
staging area starting around 10,000 feet. Then it went back down, regening,
and was 3/4 full when it passed the staging area on the way down, and it
made it another 40 or 50 miles till the batteries were empty again.

I'm still kicking myself for not buying that particular car for $1500 --
only needed new batteries and motor brushes...

Z



> Thos True <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Back when I first started messing with these EVs, I attended a racing event
> > that was being hosted by a guy named Bill Dube. I am thinking that this was
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks guys, that's consistent with what I was able to find generically
online (i.e., relatively small altitude effects if any).

fyi - I don't do freeway speeds. I never go above 40 mph in part because my
range is limited enough with my 12V AGMs (15 miles would be really pushing
it). It also means I never have to use more than 1st and 2nd gear. We
bought a house that's only 5 miles from work specifically so I could commute
with the EV. I also have planned out my route to avoid any roads with speed
limits above 40 mph.

Given the flatter terrain here in Meridian (which btw is a suburb of Boise)
my next pack will probably be Gels, because I won't have to worry about the
high current draws I saw on the hills of Pocatello anymore.

- Peter
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks again for all your feedback about the possible effects of altitude.
FWIW - after a couple of weeks I've noticed that my energy consumption is
down. In Pocatello (4500 ft elevation, hilly terrain) I was consistently
using about 450 Whr/mile and so far here in Meridian (2500 ft elevation,
much flatter terrain) I'm using about 400 Whr/mile. As several of you have
suggested, the benefits of the flatter terrain probably outweigh any
increase in air resistance at lower altitude.

Many of you will say that even these latter numbers sound too high, but you
have to consider a couple of things:

1. These are "real world" average measures. My calculations are based
on the number of miles I travel and the number of KwH I use to fully
recharge the pack each day.
2. I'm using 12V AGMs which probably aren't as efficient as the 6V floodies
that many use.

- Peter Flipsen Jr
http://www.evalbum.com/1974





> SLPinfo.org <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks guys, that's consistent with what I was able to find generically
> > online (i.e., relatively small altitude effects if any).
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Peter,

I'm in the same area, but don't have an EV yet. Let me know if you want me
to put you in touch with a few other drivers of EVs in the area. We had an
EV display at Hewlett-Packard in early May that drew 5 or 6 vehicles. I can
put you in touch with the owner of a converted Sunbeam that put the show
together if you're interested.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:47 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] batteries and altitude

Thanks guys, that's consistent with what I was able to find generically
online (i.e., relatively small altitude effects if any).

fyi - I don't do freeway speeds. I never go above 40 mph in part because my
range is limited enough with my 12V AGMs (15 miles would be really pushing
it). It also means I never have to use more than 1st and 2nd gear. We
bought a house that's only 5 miles from work specifically so I could commute
with the EV. I also have planned out my route to avoid any roads with speed
limits above 40 mph.

Given the flatter terrain here in Meridian (which btw is a suburb of Boise)
my next pack will probably be Gels, because I won't have to worry about the
high current draws I saw on the hills of Pocatello anymore.

- Peter
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