# 1st logisystems down



## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

well I thought i would let all of the logisystems lovers on this site know about my new logisystems controller. it *was *a 72v 700 amp controller, and before buying it read all of the post that i could find on logisystems controllers, but all of the posts were from a year or two ago, so i called them up and was told that there controllers are *new and improved *so the price was good. i took a chance and...... magic smoke today. I was able to get someone on the phone and get the return process going pretty easily though. we will see how* #2* goes but in the mean time i ordered a controller from chennic.com, as a back up, and i may try the chennic controller first just for the heck of it so i can see how they work.


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## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

With all the bad publicity, how do they stay in the EV controller business?
Who can trust what they say anymore?
How many chances to improve their product do we give them? Sadly, others in the business have advanced light years ahead of them.

Thanks for the update. Keep us informed.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

well, in there defense, It could have been me, I added more batteries to my car to increase the range, but I kept the voltage the same, and im not sure if it was the controller malfunctioning, or with a full charge on the new batteries maybe it brought the voltage up (after full charge) higher than the operation limits of the controller. But then if you make a business out of building these things, you would have to account for that. In any case, i will get a new/ repaired one and a new controller from chennic to compare.


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## Quasar (May 5, 2010)

You want a reliable LogiSystems controller? Take it apart, throw away the control board and fit an OpenRevolt one.
LS can't do current sensing, that's why they blow up. Stick in a Hall sensor and some proper electronics and it will work!
While you are at it, drop the IGBT gate drive resistors from 200 ohms down to 56 - which is as low as you can go without overloading the driver chip - too much.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

I basically was talked in to buying the LS controller, from a friend. But I will most likely get an alltrax, however first i will use the controller that i got from chennic to see how that one works. I will carry my curtis controller around just in case it blows up, but I just want to see how the chennic works, I dont know if I will even use the LS controller when i get it back.


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## Quasar (May 5, 2010)

billhac said:


> I basically was talked in to buying the LS controller, from a friend. But I will most likely get an alltrax, however first i will use the controller that i got from chennic to see how that one works. I will carry my curtis controller around just in case it blows up, but I just want to see how the chennic works, I dont know if I will even use the LS controller when i get it back.


Yeah, well the LS controller contains some good bits, so don't throw it away. The latest one has 24 IGBTs rated at 600V and 78A each (at 25 deg, down to 50A at high temp) so it can handle lots of volts and at least 1200A. The diodes are even more.
The big problem is the crappy control circuitry which is a rip-off of the Curtis of about 1994.
As far as I can see, the current sensing doesn't work and they have removed the thermistor as well, so it doesn't do temp sensing either. Just asking for trouble really.
I really wonder if LS actually has any engineers. I wrote to them asking about their design, but never did get a reply. I wouldn't buy anything from them ever again.
I have modified the control board and I think it now senses current properly. I will re-connect the thermistor and it may then be a reasonable controller. 
But it could be made very good by scrapping the control board and using an OpenRevolt one. It will drive the IGBTs quite happily.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Please do let us know how the Chennic performs, they seem almost too cheap to be true!


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

I will, it will take a little while to get it but Im going to put my spare curtis in the trunk along with some tools, and use it untill it blows up, I dont expect much out of it though.


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## voltmatic automaton (Nov 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your loss...queue funeral dirge...

ok, so i am with quasars suggestion to modify. 
Logisystems have done fine all 5 TIMES they had to send me a new controller.
But I am very tired of that. 
So quasar, i am open to building the openrevolt board provided ican get the bits, let me know how your rebuild went


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## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

voltmatic automaton said:


> Logisystems have done fine all 5 TIMES they had to send me a new controller. But I am very tired of that.


Reminds me of someone's handle on another unrelated forum... "WIEL"

W - Will
I - I
E - Ever
L - Learn

All I can say is that after the first one going up in smoke after 7-8 miles conviced me that I did not want any part of LS and to get my money back and then switch to a different mfg.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

well ,ine waited about a month, and had 300 miles before it went, I will see about the 2nd one, but I'v ordered an alltrax from cloud electric,and the one from chennic is on its way, so now i will have the one that i will use, and the one that I will experiment with.


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## voltmatic automaton (Nov 2, 2008)

So I have the Logisystems controller sent as a replacement.
Its a 120v 750 amp controller.
As pointed out it looks like the controllers simply have no thermal control which may be the reason every one i've had has gone nuclear.
what i'd like to do is tear down the controller, keep the high price components which are the Mosfets/IGBTs and switch out the control board. 
Paul and Sabrinas EV control board is a project I can do, but its designed fro a 144v 500amp controller.
so what to do, anyone have any suggestions.
if i can get a plan for the control board that will work, then i have no issue with tearing it down and rebuilding it, this time with a big finned heatsink.

anyone?


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

well, I think that Quasar has done just that, so you should ask him, Im just going to switch to my new alltrax and use the LS as a spare.


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## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

You can get the parts for the open revolt control board (version 2C) here (from mouser and digikey):
http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Open_ReVolt/Control_board





voltmatic automaton said:


> So quasar, i am open to building the openrevolt board provided ican get the bits, let me know how your rebuild went


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## Quasar (May 5, 2010)

voltmatic automaton said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss...queue funeral dirge...
> 
> ok, so i am with quasars suggestion to modify.
> Logisystems have done fine all 5 TIMES they had to send me a new controller.
> ...


The problem is that the OpenRevolt board is too big too fit in the LS case and its not really possible to cut it down without re-doing the layout. It could be done fairly easily and I am thinking of doing just that, but it will take a bit of time. At the moment it is on my list of "nice things"! 
I connected my OpenRevolt board up to the LS power stage on the bench here and it works perfectly fine - as expected - its just a matter of physically fitting it in.
I have a LS controller that I have modified and repaired, but I don't think I could sell it due to the reputation of the things, so maybe its worth doing the above job so I can at least get some money back.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

Q, what is the voltage of you LS and what do you think you would want for it?
it would be a good controller to learn with.


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## Quasar (May 5, 2010)

billhac said:


> Q, what is the voltage of you LS and what do you think you would want for it?
> it would be a good controller to learn with.


Yes, it taught me a lot!
The IGBTs are rated at 600V as are the diodes. The capacitors are 250V. The lowest rated device in the thing now is the primary regulator transistor which breaks down the battery voltage to 27V and it is rated at 200V, so the absolute maximum input voltage is 227V. But allowing for a 25% safety margin, I would not operate it at more than 180V or so.
It can handle 1200A at 100 deg C or 1800A at 25 deg! So it should have plenty of margin for most applications. I have been running it from a battery of 45 Li cells giving 144V, but charging at 162V.
It still suffers from the jerky start that these things are notorious for and that is the main reason I have replaced it in my car with the OpenRevolt one. My car is direct drive.
It would be fine in a vehicle with a clutch and the other "fix" apparently is to use a log. pot for the throttle although I haven't tried this myself.
I will put he details of the mods I have made to the control board up on here once I can draw them up and get a photo or two.
As for price, I paid $US1895 for it - originally a 156V, 1000A controller - and I've spent another $600 or so on parts to rebuild it, but I don't expect to recover anything like that. I've certainly had $1000 worth of learning from it!
Shipping to the US is about $80.
Make me an offer! By PM if you like.


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