# Agni motors



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Agni motors are single ended. The back end only have a brush cover and no male or female shaft there. Adjustment for brush advance for cw and ccw direction is made there.

To use two together I have seen people place two motors shaft to shaft joined on a tooth belt pulley that then drives a pulley on the gearbox shaft.

The Lynch motors do have a female shaft and are available, on their website, as a siamesed motor.

As far as I know the Agni is rated nominally at 10kw at 60 volts to remain in warrenty. The twin motors are usually run wired in series at 120 pack volts.

I'm not sure how much over voltage or over speed they will take but it is suggested that they are stronger then Lynch and Etec(?) motors of similar design and so don't disintegrate at high speed.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ..don't disintegrate at high speed.


Yes, that's nice if they don't do that.

But you're implying that there is only one type of Agni motor? They suggest on their website they have 4 types. The graph is of the strongest motor at the highest voltage.

ps. Nice key you made.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Jan,



Jan said:


> Can they be stacked in series?


I suppose, if you're clever enough.



> They have a male and female shaft end?


I don't think so.



> Is the power in their graphs nominal or peak power?


Neither. It is a plot of performance. The motor behavior at various loads, which is the x-axis, current in this case, but current is proportional to torque, so is the same as plotted against torque on the x-axis. The plot shows you the RPM, power output and efficiency of the motor for the load (x-axis value). All this at a stated voltage applied to the motor. These performance characteristic graphs indicate the motor behavior at full voltage. If you need operation at less than the indicated output, you need to use a controller to reduce the motor voltage which will in turn reduce the RPM and power vs load curves.



> And what is the other value?


Such performance characteristic graphs say nothing as to the motor rating, which is what I think you ask.



> And how must I read their graphs?


Find your operating load on the x-axis and read the values for torque, RPM, power and efficiency at that particular current value. Sometimes it is easier to draw a vertical line at your load value. Remember all this is true for only the stated motor voltage at which the graph was drawn.



> Is the rpm limited depending on the amps?





> Or do they only operate in that rpm range?


Confusing questions. For a given motor voltage, the RPM decrease with increasing load (amps, or torque). The RPM curve on the graph is the maximum the motor can run with the given supply voltage. It can run slower if you reduce the applied motor voltage with a controller. 

The motor can run at higher loads (x-axis values) than the graph indicates. How much higher? That depends on the controller current limit and the thermal overload capability of the motor. Such a graph does not tell you these things.

Regards,

major


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

The Agni 95 series reinforced motors are waranteed to 6000rpm (around 84v), and can take 20 second bursts at 400A or around 250A continuous (dependant on airflow).
Although Agni do make several "flavours" of this motor, the 95 series is by far the most powerfull of them as far as I know.

Steve


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jan said:


> But you're implying that there is only one type of Agni motor? They suggest on their website they have 4 types.
> 
> ps. Nice key you made.


Thanks.

I tend to only consider the Agni reinforced 95 series as being relevent to EV use on anything over the size of a bicycle so haven't even thought about the others.

I would happily get a couple of 95s to get started, if I could afford it, and then add another two later. The UK Ev'ers seem to prefer them and can't see the point of investing in the huge weight of an ex fork truck motor. I think their idea is to invest in a good motor and then up grade the FLA pack to LiFiPO4 later when they are more proven.
I figure it is easier, and cheaper, to change the motor later if/when I can afford it and invest in a good battery pack from the start.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

there is a Honda civic on evabulm which use two lynch motors (same type as agni or viceversa more precisely ). They are connected in series


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks all. I think I understand how to interpret the graph.




Woodsmith said:


> I figure it is easier, and cheaper, to change the motor later if/when I can afford it and invest in a good battery pack from the start.


Mmm.. My idea is to build the first 'prototype' based on cheap lead accid with a very limited range. But with the best drive train I can afford. The one I think should be good enough to let the car perform the way I want it. 

If this al turns out as hoped, I will upgrade to lithium, to extend the range. The lead will probably cost me no more than 1000 euro or so. A fraction of the price of an interesting lithium pack. And if it doesn't perform the way I want it, it's easier to sell the lot. Expensive used batterie are -I guess- hard to sell second hand. At least for a reasonable price.

And I think the price of lithium will drop more. Harder than the price of motors and controllers.

My drive train top 3 is now:
1. MES DEA 200-330W
2. TSXDL 40/80 KW
3. Not Agni anymore...


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

80N541 said:


> there is a Honda civic on evabulm which use two lynch motors (same type as agni or viceversa more precisely ). They are connected in series


That would be? http://www.evalbum.com/2224

From what I read, performance is nothing to write home about. I recommend you guys stay away from brush PM DC motors for cars. Both radial and axial machines. Some guys have good luck with them on bikes, but even there, some guys burn them up. 

Regards,

major


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

major said:


> That would be? http://www.evalbum.com/2224
> 
> From what I read, performance is nothing to write home about. I recommend you guys stay away from brush PM DC motors for cars. Both radial and axial machines. Some guys have good luck with them on bikes, but even there, some guys burn them up.
> 
> ...


Major, the TSXDL is a PM too, or not? What's the problem than? The power seems to be ok. The mass looks good. 

I'm very interested in David85's experience with them.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jan said:


> Major, the TSXDL is a PM too, or not? What's the problem than? The power seems to be ok. The mass looks good.


What is TSXDL?


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

major said:


> What is TSXDL?


Their website is prety hard to read:

http://www.tsxdl.cn/eshow.asp?shop_ID=242 

David85 has bought one:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/david85s-saturn-sl1-conversion-26587p26.html


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jan said:


> Their website is prety hard to read:
> 
> http://www.tsxdl.cn/eshow.asp?shop_ID=242
> 
> ...


I think you are referring to BLDC. I qualified my statement with *brush* PM DC motors. A big difference 

major


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

major said:


> I think you are referring to BLDC. I qualified my statement with *brush* PM DC motors. A big difference
> 
> major


Ah, Agni and co are PM with brushes... So many choices...


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

The power IS good. 2 motors for a light car is fine, for an extra light car (like my 400KG trike) it is downright fun, easily wheelspinning through 2'nd gear. These motors don't burn easy since efficiency is WAY higher than any of the series motors on offer, and a good many of the AC motors when you take their lossy controllers into account.
I've run them in series (at 144v) and parallel (at 90v), both without incident. Cedric Lynch (Agni/Lynch motor inventor) runs a pair of motors with 2 controllers on his TT race winning bike. 

I can tell you still don't like them Major, perhaps you should try one though, I reckon you'll be surprised!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jozzer said:


> I can tell you still don't like them Major, perhaps you should try one though, I reckon you'll be surprised!


Hey Joz,

I like all motors, just some more than others.  Maybe someday I'll have an application I think could be ripe for one. If fact, if they weren't so expensive, I'd give one a go on my Kokart. 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/kokam-go-cart-kokart-37818.html 

Next time you talk with Cedric, see if he is willing to donate one to our university. If the students can't break it, you might have something 

Regards,

major


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Nice cart Major. Now THAT needs an Agni. I bet that motor you have strapped on there weighs damn near as much as the pack does? An Agni is just 11KG and will give a good 20KW of real power.

I will point him at this thread however, so you never know Major

Steve


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jozzer said:


> Nice cart Major. Now THAT needs an Agni. I bet that motor you have strapped on there weighs damn near as much as the pack does? An Agni is just 11KG and will give a good 20KW of real power.
> 
> I will point him at this thread however, so you never know Major
> 
> Steve


Hey Steve,

Here is a picture of that motor. 35 years old and still kickin'. Been in and out of several "EVs". Just a golf cart motor with 2 bearings. I'll put it on a shaft to shaft dyno against your Agni and see which one smokes first 

Kidding aside, I'd love to evaluate an Agni. And if found worthy, I might stop badmouthing them 

Regards,

major


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