# Battery Comparison



## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

Li-ion cells (3.6 V, not LiFePO4)

 Type (format)
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Mass
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter


LiFePO4 and LiFeYPO4 cells (3.2 V)

 Type (format)
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Weight
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
 Customer Service (poor, good, excellent)
 A123
 
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 
 
 
 
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  CALB SE40AHA
 40ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 ≤1
 1.81" 46mm
 4.57" 115mm
 7.28" 181mm
 3.1lb 1.4kg
 $50-60 each
 128
 0.96
 2.37
 91.4
 133.7
  CALB
 70ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 ≤1
 2.52"
 4.45"
 8.5"
 5.5lb
 $90-105 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  CALB
 100ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 ≤0.9
 2.64"
 5.59"
 8.66"
 7.0lb
 $128-150 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  CALB
 130ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 ≤0.8
 2.2"
 7.17"
 10.94"
 9.7lb
 $167-195 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  CALB
 180ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 ≤0.6
 2.8"
 7.17"
 10.98"
 12.3lb
 $230-270 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  GBS
 40ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 1.81"
 4.96"
 7.09"
 3.1lb
 $50-54 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  GBS
 60ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 2.56"
 4.96"
 7.09"
 4.4lb
 $75-81 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  GBS-LFMP100AH
 100ah
 3C
 10C
 0.0018
 2.56" 65mm
 4.96" 126mm
 9.21" 242mm
 6.2lb 3.05kg
 $125-135 each
 320
 1.97
 2.37
 104.9
 162.8
  Sinopoly
 40ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 1.9"
 4.6"
 7.3"
 3.4lb
 $50-54 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  Sinopoly
 60ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 2.4"
 4.6"
 7.3"
 4.4lb
 $75-81 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  Sinopoly
 100ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 2.4"
 5.6"
 8.7"
 6.9lb
 $125-135 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  Sinopoly
 180ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 2.8"
 7.1"
 11.1"
 12.7lb
 $225-243 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
  Sinopoly
 200ah
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 2.8"
 7.1"
 11.1"
 12.7lb
 $250-270 each
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
 

Lead Acid batteries

 Type (format)
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Mass
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
 Optima
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Mass
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
 Trojan
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Mass
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter
 U.S. Battery
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
  Werker
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
  Deka
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

Nickel Metal Hydride

 Type (format)
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Mass
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter


Nickel Cadmium

 Type (format)
 Capacity
 Cont Disc Rating
 Peak Disc Rating
 Internal Resistance
 Width
 Depth
 Height
 Mass
 Price
 Watt Hours
 Volume Liters
 WH/$
 WH/kg
 WH/Liter


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

Thank you Elithion for helping me out on this wiki. I hope others help as well.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

should we group the batteries by capacity (ah), or by type? Is it possible to make the categories clickable to put the column of choice by the user in descending or ascending order? that way if the user only wants to look at the 180 ah batteries together they can, but if they want to only look at for example, CALB they can do that as well.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I don't think you should worry about grouping at all. Just collect data and anyone who want's better comparison or sorting tools can copy it off into excell for their own use.

I have some updates, but not sure how to add them without too much hassle.

How did you guys do the table code?


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

EVEngineeer said:


> should we group the batteries by capacity (ah), or by type? Is it possible to make the categories clickable to put the column of choice by the user in descending or ascending order? that way if the user only wants to look at the 180 ah batteries together they can, but if they want to only look at for example, CALB they can do that as well.


I am combining my excel sheet and data with the data provided by Doug Ingraham. It has sorting and basic calcs. I was going to put it in my original post about a sticky but I can post it here if it fits better and people will find it.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

kerrymann said:


> I am combining my excel sheet and data with the data provided by Doug Ingraham. It has sorting and basic calcs. I was going to put it in my original post about a sticky but I can post it here if it fits better and people will find it.


yes please do post it here, that would be great


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## TechImperial (Dec 17, 2012)

Hey guys just wondering if you have allowed for puekerts constant when comparing the Amp hours. Some manufactureres claim amp hours at a drain of C/20 and others at a drain of C. I am making a similar spreadsheet and would like to contribute. I adjust the AH buy normalizing all of the batteries to a 25 amp drain. I used : (AH new) = (AH old)[(AH old)/(25*time the manufacturer drained the battery)]^(K-1) were k is puekerts constant. Puekerts constant is usually close to 1 with lithum ion batteries.


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

EVEngineeer said:


> yes please do post it here, that would be great


Will do. I need to do some more checking of my values in the sheet. I have well over 100 batteries. Some of them are Pb that not well EV suited (I originally made the sheet for autonomous solar tracking) but i'll leave them in for reference. I'll try to get it posted tomorrow night with it as far as I get it and then everyone can tell me that the prices are wrong, or that spec is wrong, etc...


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

kerrymann said:


> Will do. I need to do some more checking of my values in the sheet. I have well over 100 batteries. Some of them are Pb that not well EV suited (I originally made the sheet for autonomous solar tracking) but i'll leave them in for reference. I'll try to get it posted tomorrow night with it as far as I get it and then everyone can tell me that the prices are wrong, or that spec is wrong, etc...


haha nice. thanks for helping out


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

kerrymann said:


> Will do. I need to do some more checking of my values in the sheet. I have well over 100 batteries. Some of them are Pb that not well EV suited (I originally made the sheet for autonomous solar tracking) but i'll leave them in for reference. I'll try to get it posted tomorrow night with it as far as I get it and then everyone can tell me that the prices are wrong, or that spec is wrong, etc...


haha thanks for helping out


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

I have uploaded it to google docs so people can use and edit on the cloud.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApFRLJdC-isFdGQ5NnNNcnpRd0h2Vnotb2dVampMMlE

<<PLEASE don't edit it if you don't know what you are doing>>

I went through a lot of the data but the problem I was running into is there is conflicting info for the cells. I was expecting this for cost but not simple specs like discharge rate. For instance the info I got from CALB lists the CA180 with a 10 discharge rate of 5.5C. I have also seen 8C and 10C for the same cell. So what is the right value? I think this should be the manufacturer's specs (assuming they don't contradict themselves). People may choose to push cells harder then the published values but such activities will likely have a negative impact on cell life.

The first sheet is a simple pack designer. You shouldn't need to bother with the second sheet unless you are adding more cells (which I am still doing) or checking and/or updating specs and prices.

This calculator is design as a tool for designing a pack to meet an individuals need for capacity (range), power, and cost etc. The costs here are not going to be extremely accurate. Cost fluctuate as well as shipping customs, insurance, etc. Once a user has down selected to a one or two different cells then they should get quotes and update the costs accordingly. 

This calculator will allow you to compare different cells and pack configurations to meet an individual needs. 

If you need long range your goal will likely be to get the pack with the greatest capacity, lowest weight and size.

If you need performance the the highest peak power is you goal while minimizing weight.

First determine your required pack capacity. There are many tools to do this but the simplest is simply to take the total weight of the completed car + passengers in pounds, divide by 10 then multiply by the desired range in miles. Obviously this is highly simplified as there are many other variables (terrain, speed, aerodynamics, etc) but this is a place to start.


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

TechImperial said:


> Hey guys just wondering if you have allowed for puekerts constant when comparing the Amp hours. Some manufactureres claim amp hours at a drain of C/20 and others at a drain of C. I am making a similar spreadsheet and would like to contribute. I adjust the AH buy normalizing all of the batteries to a 25 amp drain. I used : (AH new) = (AH old)[(AH old)/(25*time the manufacturer drained the battery)]^(K-1) were k is puekerts constant. Puekerts constant is usually close to 1 with lithum ion batteries.


Good points. There are also other variables that make it hard to do a apples to apples comparison. Some manufactures give pulse discharge rates for a 10sec period, while others do 30 seconds, and others do 1 second. Some list cyclelife in 0-100% while others 80-20%. etc. I wasn't expecting so much inconsistency in manufacturer specs. I suspected there is a SAE test standard but no one seems to follow it (or even reference it). One has to wonder if some manufactures vary the test regime to better match there cells performance...

Oh well, I'll keep updating it and posting here. I hope the spreadsheet is useful for some people and take everything with a grain of salt. Don't get too focused on the tiny variations because it is all in the noise anyway. I wouldn't select a cell because it's $1.19/ah vs $1.20/ah. Look at things from a bigger picture and take into account factors that aren't in a spreadsheet such as forum user experience level, customer service, etc.


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

kerrymann said:


> I have uploaded it to google docs so people can use and edit on the cloud.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApFRLJdC-isFdGQ5NnNNcnpRd0h2Vnotb2dVampMMlE
> 
> <<PLEASE don't edit it if you don't know what you are doing>>


Well not surprisingly I had to fix it again and make it view only. People were overwriting equations with their own random numbers so I changed it to read only. If you see a correction, post it here and i'll fix it.

With permissions set to view, I hope people can still select the cells, pack design, etc but won't be able to save it. I don't know if that is the way google docs permissions work. If someone can try it an post here if it works.

I am half tempted to put this in EES and make a executable out of it but I want to make it open for all users.

I can also post the excel in a zip here but then there will be multiple versions floating around.


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