# Newbie - UK Smart Car EV conversion.



## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi,

For years I have been wanting to DIY an electric car. I thought GM's EV1 was the coolest thing, and collected loads of info and media info packs about it.

Being in the UK Gas is over $2 per litre, and my main car is a 4.4 litre BMW - so an EV is needed, for local travel.

I work from home, so I only drive a very few miles a week. These are mostly into town 7 miles away.

Smart cars are readily available over here for around $2k, and that's for running ones. Busted ones will be a load cheaper 

I am deliberating on what power train to go for. As I only need a limited range of 30 miles or so, and the smart's overall weight is low, Do I:

Go for:

1). Lead acid and DC, there may be a physical limitation fitting 12 x 12v LA batts.

2). Lead acid and AC, same limitation as above.

3). Power train from a junked forklift, I am not to sure on the performance of these (mph/acceleration)?

4). Have I missed an option?

No Lithium power supply, as it is far off budget.

I have spent a good part of my day watching KiwiEV's videos - Kudos, very inspiring stuff!!

I suppose there are no EV suppliers in the UK, so I will have to import the stuff from the USA.

Any ideas?

Cheers!

Steve.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

What is the top speed requirements? I would go with Lead Acid and DC, since AC requires a pretty sizable investment. You probably wouldn't need an 144V system for such a small car. It would depend on the top speed but 120 or 96 would be cheaper and need less batteries (for some reason there hasn't been many 108V conversions). We have a few guys on here from europe that might be able to chime in about suppliers closer to you. Do you know what hp the original smart engines were? Sounds like this will be a nice conversion =)


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

You can get a Smart car for $2k over there!!! That's amazing!! I would love to do a Smart Car EV. DC and lead acid and since its a small vehicle 72 volts would get you around town and 96 volts would probably get you highway speeds.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi,

Well top speed will be 30mph for town driving, but 50mph would be nice, as there is a dual carridgeway on the route.

I am prepared to invest in an AC system, but it all depends on the physical packaging of the power source. Whatever route I look at as long as it can hit 55mph with a 30 mile range, thats all good.

I think the Smart's BHP is around 70bhp.

I will possibly have space to mount batteries in the rear, front and along the centerline of the car (GM EV-1 style).

I think all Smart's are auto or semi auto, so I will have to lock the trans into a set gear (reverse?), unless the semi auto can be hacked to change up/down/reverse.

One thing that may make the conversion easier is the whole drive train is mounted on a sub frame.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> You can get a Smart car for $2k over there!!! That's amazing!! I would love to do a Smart Car EV. DC and lead acid and since its a small vehicle 72 volts would get you around town and 96 volts would probably get you highway speeds.


I saw a smart go for £1200 here recently. They are quite common cars and there are loads of them around.


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## TrickUK (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi Steve,

AFAIK, the only UK EV kit supplier can be found here:

http://www.everything-ev.com

Having spent a long time looking at the various options, I believe the basic kits to be good value. They do a Smart specific kit, but it's much more expensive so I can only assume that includes them doing the conversion.

I'm a way off starting my conversion (have donor vehicle but lots of other projects to finish first!), but I'll be seriously considering one of their kits to get me started.

Regards,

Richard.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

Whoa over £5k for a kit excluding batteries and that's DC! Is it all gold plated or something ;-)

£5k will get me a 2001 Honda Insight IMA which would be a more attractive spend.

Add that 5K to a good 2K donor + a few coins on batteries/ chargers, I am into Toyota Prius (new model) territory.

Ideally I want to keep costs to a minimum, else I will end up with a very expensive short range, slow car!

Thanks for the link, I'll do some surfing.


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## TrickUK (Mar 17, 2008)

Have a look at the basic kits, I'm quite keen on the base AC kit (~£3.2k) with everything except mounting hardware and batteries.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

TrickUK said:


> Have a look at the basic kits, I'm quite keen on the base AC kit (~£3.2k) with everything except mounting hardware and batteries.


Yup, that looks good, but it would be interesting to see how much a similar kit costs in the USA.


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## TrickUK (Mar 17, 2008)

If you find a similar kit that's cheaper including shipping and import duty, let me know


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm impressed that the whole running gear at back of the car can come out. Very handy for installing a motor and cabling.


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## BGT (Apr 7, 2008)

Steve,

Could you shoot me a couple of links in the U.K. Where I can find the smart for sale ? I would like to get a 40 foot container and ship a few.


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## TrickUK (Mar 17, 2008)

BGT,

www.autotrader.co.uk

You'll need to enter a postcode to search, just find the website for a company in London and use theirs. 482 Smart ForTwo's when I checked just now, starting at £1300 (~$2600).

HTH, Richard.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

perm motors in Germany sell a really nice permanent magnet DC pancake motor called the PMG 132 (not sure if it uses brushes). It peaks at 450A I think at 72V which is like 32kW. The advantage is that with a kelly controller you could do regen pretty easily without the cost of AC and its not that far to ship it. Might be worth checking out, I think it could probably handle that little car


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

BGT said:


> Steve,
> 
> Could you shoot me a couple of links in the U.K. Where I can find the smart for sale ? I would like to get a 40 foot container and ship a few.


As TrickUK said www.autotrader.co.uk is your best bet. Early ones are left hand drive too, so perfect for the USA  As the newer 2008 model is appearing on our roads, the early older smarts will devalue even more.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

Ok guys,

I have been playing around with a different designs for the traction system. So far I have:

1). Main motor hooked to the original transmisstion and axle.

2). 2 pancake motors driving each rear wheel. Does this need 2 controllers, or do you wire the motors in series/parallel?

Here are my current thoughts:

I still need to see how many batteries I can physically fit into the car.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Wow those diagrams looks nice! If you wire the motors in parallel with 1 controller they will see the same voltage and split the current... Also make sure you know the difference between a pancake motor and a hub motor, pancakes are just small thin motors, hub motors actually replace a traditional hub (more expensive but simpler design).


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## sharp21 (Mar 11, 2008)

5000 quid doesnt sound out of line for a vehicle specific kit.
S.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

Ok, looks like I am now looking at a 72 or 96v DC or AC system with re-gen.

I have to now go off and read all about motor performance, as I would like to have a max speed of 50mph and a circa 30 mile radius.

Looks like my choices are here: http://www.everything-ev.com/basic-ev-parts-conversion-kits-c-66_117.html

Car weighs in at 750kg inc ICE.

I am still undecided on weather to go for AC or DC. Also the voltage I decide to go for is dictated by my performance targets. 72v has advantages as it is only 6 batteries, 96 is 8

It looks like the supplier includes a charger too 

I would go for the ready made kits, but that takes the fun out of the DIY route (for me anyway).


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## TrickUK (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi Steve,

I take it you didn't manage to better their deal? Let me know if you go for the AC system, we may get a discount if we buy two together!

I like your mock-ups, way more sophisticated than my Sketch-ups. I reckon a conventional conversion would probably have the most likely success, plus the hub motors are very expensive IMO. I'd love to know the route Smart are taking with the 'ed'. Aside from presumably remoulding the floor pan to accomodate a lithuim pack, I wonder if it's essentially the same as one of your conversion plans?

Regards,

Richard.


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

As for bettering their deal, I have not really looked. At least buying all from one dealer means easier warranty issues 

I have found some interesting info on the official smart ED or EV:

It looks like a OEM conversion from these guys: http://www.zytekgroup.co.uk/ Specifically: http://www.zytekgroup.co.uk/Default.aspx?tid=153

They say it is a 300v! system.









The OEM power pack, powered by a Zytek motor. Notice how all the major components are on that subframe. That sould make fabrication and maintenance easy peasy!









OEM Motor layout











*Zytek IDT 120-55*​*Integrated 55kW Electric Engine*

_Technical Specification_

_*Combined Motor/Inverter Unit*_​Weight 60kg (dry)
Power (max @ 278V) 55kW
Coolant Water/Glycol mix
Operating ambient temperature -10oC to +40oC
Environmental rating IP 65​ 
_*Motor*_
Type Permanent Magnet Brushless DC
Torque (max) 120Nm
Max operating speed 12,000rpm​ 
*Inverter*
Type IGBT 3-phase bridge
Supply voltage (min, nom, max) 200V, 278V, 350V
Vehicle communications Dual CAN​Vehicle auxiliary system supply 13.5V at 800W peak (Integrated DC/DC converter supplied from the Traction Battery)


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## pinter75 (Apr 6, 2008)

Could be an ideal donor car 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMPLETE-2001...ryZ18276QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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