# SAAB EV Conversion-Mountain Style



## slipstream (Mar 15, 2014)

Hi there, i have this Saab 9-3 with a blown engine. ive always wanted to build an electric car, but couldn't find the "right" car for my needs. Anyway i decided that i might as well work with what ive got and learn as much as i can for a future conversion. its a convertible, so i realize that it is not the best starter weight wise, however i am looking to get at least 30 miles on a charge. i live in a mountain valley so i need something with enough power to traverse steep passed (paved of course) for about 15-20 miles in one direction, and then back. anyway any help would be appreciated.

this is not the exact car, but it is the same year, make and model
ill upload pictures and a video tomorrow 

stats:Curb weight: 2990 lbs
5 speed auto
not a lot of space. for real


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

Nice ride!


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## rtz (Jul 3, 2013)

Browse over the motors and controllers and see if you want to go AC or DC. Call Jack and he'll set you up with a battery pack: http://store.evtv.me/ 

It's all just a matter of buying the parts and installing them. You could be driving it next week if you work fast.

Or contract it out if you don't want to do it: http://www.ev-blue.com/


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

If you have a lot of altitude change, it will be both safer and probably significantly more efficient to go with an AC system with regen. Safer because you will have braking from the motor going down the roads, and you will get a good fraction of the climb energy back if the roads are steep enough.

Also, It would be a really good idea to get the BEST car for the job, not just the one you happen to have. If the saab is in good shape except for the engine, you should still be able to get something out of it. Sell it, and use the money to buy a geo metro, toyota echo or other subcompact. You can get a lot of battery into a geo and your final weight will probably be 500 to 1000lbs less than the saab, allowing for everything else to be smaller and cheaper.

The chassis is a major factor in the end result. Get the best one you can for your circumstances.

Good luck.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

The MOST important part of a conversion is that you really really like the car
A Toyota box may be more "efficient" but your Saab will be FUN - which is much more important
You are going to put a lot of time and money into it - make it something you want

There is no way you will be driving in a week unless you give somebody Tesla money to do it for you

AC/DC
AC is the way of the future
At the moment it is either expensive, wimpy or both

Unless you are rich go DC (In about 5 years this may change)

Re-gen
If you drive like a hooligan you may get some benefit
Think of your drive
Do you have to brake a lot or can you "go with the flow"?

If you are using the brakes a lot then re-gen will help - a little
If you are not braking much you will get no benefit from re-gen

Normally spending some of the money saved by not going AC on more batteries will more (much more) than compensate 

Looks like a fun project


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## evc-motors.eu (Feb 16, 2014)

So now i should show my EV Saab 900, today was first test drive  :

Electric SAAB 900 with BLDC MOTOR


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Lets first get the terminology straight.
Regen & Brakes are 2 different things.
Regen is KERS
Brakes is friction, disc or drum.
Regen is proportionate to vehicle mass and speed.
Regen is also proportionate to the way you drive.
If you accelerate slowly you can also brake slowly.
8 seconds worth of regen at 1G decel will get you about 7 seconds worth of accel at 1G completely free.
As long as you are accelerating and decelerating at the same rate (1G for example) regen will work perfectly and you will get the maximum benefit from it.
In fact the more Hooligan you drive the more heat losses you get.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Regen will be highly beneficial on steep terrain regardless of how conservatively you drive if the roads are steep enough that you need to ride the friction brakes to keep in control. Since OP suggested mountain passes were involved I assume this is the case.

Also in an ICE car engine compression braking can help keep the car from running away due to overheated friction brakes. They always taught when I was younger anyway never to coast down hills in neutral for that reason. That is essentially what you would do in a DC powered EV. However you do get regen, or KERS, in an AC powered vehicle.


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## TOM MULCAHY (Jul 16, 2015)

I've just completed a conversion on a '97 Saab 900 convertible which is very similar to the 93.
Please get in touch if you're still interested. Details of my car are up on evalbum.

Regards,
Tom


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## just1Tonio (Aug 15, 2020)

Hi, I saw your post from some time ago and wanted to follow up. I have an '06 Aero convertible.



slipstream said:


> Hi there, i have this Saab 9-3 with a blown engine. ive always wanted to build an electric car, but couldn't find the "right" car for my needs. Anyway i decided that i might as well work with what ive got and learn as much as i can for a future conversion. its a convertible, so i realize that it is not the best starter weight wise, however i am looking to get at least 30 miles on a charge. i live in a mountain valley so i need something with enough power to traverse steep passed (paved of course) for about 15-20 miles in one direction, and then back. anyway any help would be appreciated.
> 
> this is not the exact car, but it is the same year, make and model
> ill upload pictures and a video tomorrow
> ...


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## just1Tonio (Aug 15, 2020)

TOM MULCAHY said:


> I've just completed a conversion on a '97 Saab 900 convertible which is very similar to the 93.
> Please get in touch if you're still interested. Details of my car are up on evalbum.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom


Hi Tom. I saw your post from some time ago and wanted to follow up. I have an '06 Aero convertable.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

RIPPERTON said:


> Lets first get the terminology straight.
> Regen & Brakes are 2 different things.
> Regen is KERS
> Brakes is friction, disc or drum.


No. Braking is retarding the motion of the vehicle - that is traditionally done by friction (disk or old drum brakes), but can be done by running a motor as a generator (since that recovers electrical energy it's called "regenerative braking").

If we are going to try to make things clearer for a new person, I don't think introducing an acronym only used in a small segment of motorsport is very helpful... "KERS" means "Kinetic Energy Recovery System", which means regenerative braking by any one of several methods; in EV's it is always running the motor as a generator to recharge the battery.



RIPPERTON said:


> Regen is proportionate to vehicle mass and speed.


Yes, the force required to decelerate at a given rate depend on vehicle mass, and regeneration power is proportional to force and speed, so regenerative braking is only useful at reasonable speeds... but typical urban speeds are enough for meaningful energy recovery in a well-designed vehicle.



RIPPERTON said:


> Regen is also proportionate to the way you drive.
> If you accelerate slowly you can also brake slowly.
> 8 seconds worth of regen at 1G decel will get you about 7 seconds worth of accel at 1G completely free.
> As long as you are accelerating and decelerating at the same rate (1G for example) regen will work perfectly and you will get the maximum benefit from it.


Acceleration and braking are almost unrelated. You can accelerate like there's a raw egg under your foot on the accelerator, and still smash the brake pedal like a lunatic just before every stop... and vice versa. The maximum power available for both acceleration and regenerative braking depend on the same motor, controller, and battery choices... but you never need to use either maximum.

After you collect energy back into the battery with regenerative braking, it doesn't matter whether you spend that energy accelerating quickly or slowly... but yes, if you wanted a simple way to think of the situation, and were willing to ignore that most of the energy used by an EV is used to keep it moving (not to accelerate or climb), that proportion would work.

In an ideal world for energy efficiency, people would brake only as hard as the regenerative system can handle so that the friction brakes are never used, and would accelerate at the power level at which the drive system (battery, controller, and motor) is most efficient. Those would likely be different power levels, and different rates of deceleration and acceleration. Essentially no one optimizes their driving this way.


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## schelle63 (Jan 3, 2018)

brian_ said:


> In an ideal world for energy efficiency, people would brake only as hard as the regenerative system can handle so that the friction brakes are never used, and would accelerate at the power level at which the drive system (battery, controller, and motor) is most efficient. Those would likely be different power levels, and different rates of deceleration and acceleration. Essentially no one optimizes their driving this way.


Very precisely described, thank You!
My controller allows to activate regen-braking by tipping the brake pedal (brake lights, for a moment) in different levels, in addition I can set a max. speed just by keeping it constant for some seconds: very useful when driving downwards. I live in a steep terrain.
I might be the only one, but indeed I try to optimize my driving this way.
Markus


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## schelle63 (Jan 3, 2018)

Hmmm, discussion started in March 2014 and never replied by "Slipstream".
Project might be completed or abandoned.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

schelle63 said:


> Hmmm, discussion started in March 2014 and never replied by "Slipstream".
> Project might be completed or abandoned.


Yes, likely.

The update request from just1Tonio brought the thread up in the "new" listing, and I didn't notice that the regenerative braking discussion was ancient. But at least it's still valid.


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## CrankyGirl (9 mo ago)

slipstream said:


> Hi there, i have this Saab 9-3 with a blown engine. ive always wanted to build an electric car, but couldn't find the "right" car for my needs. Anyway i decided that i might as well work with what ive got and learn as much as i can for a future conversion. its a convertible, so i realize that it is not the best starter weight wise, however i am looking to get at least 30 miles on a charge. i live in a mountain valley so i need something with enough power to traverse steep passed (paved of course) for about 15-20 miles in one direction, and then back. anyway any help would be appreciated.
> 
> this is not the exact car, but it is the same year, make and model
> ill upload pictures and a video tomorrow
> ...


Did you start the conversion? I have a 1999 Saab 9-3 convertible I would love to convert to an EV, so I’m wondering how your project has turned out.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The original poster hit and runned one posting, so you likely won't get a response.

The newer Saabs use Chevy drivetrains, so I suggest you look on this forum for conversions of cars that used those. 

Lots of options these days vs even 2-3 years ago. Best to intro your build ideas and goals and yourself in your own thread and go from there.


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## paulheystee (11 mo ago)

Hi, 
I am in the middle of a EV conversion of my Saab 93 cabrio. I use only Nissan Leaf components, motor, inverter PDM and battery pack. So far I have installed the motor stack, complete with Leaf gearbox and the re-arranged Leaf battery pack where the rear seat was.
















test fitting, in the meantime I installed the cables. 
The relay unit, also from the battery pack is relocated in the central tunnel (where the exhaust was) under the gear shifter. The original HV cable connects to the original battery connector.
















If you have any questions regarding my built, please let me know.


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## DIGGER11 (Mar 16, 2010)

Looks great Paul. 
Just a couple of questions from an interested spectator
What year is your 9-3 ?
Any canbus issues ?? 
What year and kWh Leaf did u use ?
How are you attaching the Saab axles to the Leaf gearbox ?

Cheers
Digger.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Looks like you need a feeler guage to measure the clearance between the brake fluid reservoir and the PDM 😂


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## paulheystee (11 mo ago)

Hi Digger,
My Saab is from 1999 and it only needs analog signals from the engine, like RPM and 3rd injector plus train and temp / fuel quantity. The computer in the dash will work, even if there is no engine, just like the ABS and other safety components. I will have to keep the ICE computer so the rest of the components will not start to panic when it is removed.
I am useing a gen2, I think 2016, I need to check. When I bought the stack I got it with the two half shafts, I cut them and welded them to the Saab halve shafts. I will be getting custom half shafts made once this all works.

Yes, Remy, I had to relocated the stack, a little higher and more to the right now everything sits perfectly. Below you see the motor stack sitting, I modified the mountings to make it sit level.


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## DIGGER11 (Mar 16, 2010)

Fantastic, I did hear that Saabs before 2003 used less Canbus.


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## paulheystee (11 mo ago)

Yeah, Saab uses I-bus ans P-bus, which is similar to CAN bus.
P-bus is for engine management and operates separately from the I-bus, which makes it easy.
I am not sure what the Saab protocols are so this will be a task to figure out how to manipulate this.
For my 1999 9-3 it is simple, I only need to mimic the engine signals, however, it is not needed. The car will work just fine without them.


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## paulheystee (11 mo ago)

Yesterday I drove the first A to B trip, around 90 kms, and all seemed to work fine. I arrived with 38% SOC left, so not too bad. +/- 122 W/km
I only need to sort out the type 1 to type 2 connection and straighten out a small fast charge issue.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I like the James Bond hideaway SoC display 😂 Good idea in a convertible, actually.

How loud is the vacuum pump and power steering & what did you use?


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## paulheystee (11 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> I like the James Bond hideaway SoC display 😂 Good idea in a convertible, actually.
> 
> How loud is the vacuum pump and power steering & what did you use?


De vacuum pump is from Saab and is not too loud, the power steering pump, from Volvo, is loud, mainly because it is hanging in too stiff rubber bushes, I might need to loosen them up with softer rubber I think


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## DougJK (1 mo ago)

Hi Paul, great stuff. I'd love to do something similar, although with a 9-3 hatchback instead of a convertible. Other than the donor Leaf, the Volvo steering pump, and custom half shafts, what else did you need to buy? How did you handle the engine mounts? And were you able to change it to an EV with the Dutch authorities?


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## paulheystee (11 mo ago)

DougJK said:


> Hi Paul, great stuff. I'd love to do something similar, although with a 9-3 hatchback instead of a convertible. Other than the donor Leaf, the Volvo steering pump, and custom half shafts, what else did you need to buy? How did you handle the engine mounts? And were you able to change it to an EV with the Dutch authorities?


Hi Doug,
You don't need the complete Leaf, just the motor unit (incl. half shaft/CV stubs) and the battery. I used the Resolve-EV computer, but there are also others. For the Volvo power steering pump I got a small CAN module that controls the pump speed/pressure (BrunoSteering)
The motor unit mounting points are very near the mounting points on the Saab, so only relatively small brackets needed.
At this moment I am trying to test the Webasto (i-pace) PTC heater unit, need to figure out if it is a PWM or LIN version.

I am waiting for the inspection, hopefully in Jan 2023.


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