# I'm planning to build my first EV. I have a question about batteries.



## rickyd123 (Mar 26, 2012)

I will have 3 to 5 thousand dollars for the build. I'll be doing all the work myself. I have about a two year time frame for building it. I have a decent garage and all the tools I'll need. I've searched the web for battery information, but it's all pretty old. In my head right now I'm figuring spending around $1,200 on batteries. I would be happier if I could spend around $800, but if I have to spend $1,500 I think I can still afford a decent motor controller. I believe those are going to be my two biggest expenses. 
I'm going to use a car similar to a late 80s early 90s ford probe. I'm going to want it to be able to go at least mid 50 MPH to low 60 MPH for at least 45 minutes.
HERE IS MY QUESTION: With my budget in mind and the goals I've set for my EV should I set my sights on purchasing lithium ion batteries or should I purchase deep cell forklift/ golf cart batteries. Also in need charging info as well. If anyone can suggest good sites to learn more about batteries and good places to purchases them. I live in the USA. Lower 48. Medium sized town. We have one place that specializes in batteries. There main business is car and truck business of course.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Ricky
45 miles is more than you can get with lead - new lead will get about 20 miles range
You get into a increased weight/increased power requirements death spiral with lead

Lithium will cost about $4000 if you can get a salvage Leaf pack


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## rickyd123 (Mar 26, 2012)

Will I get the 45 minute range I want from a salvage leaf pack? Where would I get one at? One last question. How many Amps and Volts do I want to get?


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Your amps and volts depend on the motor and controller you choose. Are you going AC motor or DC?

My conversion cost over $15,000 with new Lithium batteries, a Warp 9 DC motor, a Curtis DC motor controller, a power max Dc to Dc converter, and various other items.

You will have to buy used equipment to build it for that price if it's even possible.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

You won't meet all your objectives with that budget. You could go the route of the ForkenSwift guys and do most of it with salvage and clever work and favours, but you will either need to compromise on range (time running at speed equals range) or get more money to buy batteries.

Apparently, Chevy Volt packs can be had from US wreckers for on the order of $2000. That's a 16 kWh pack which can be reconfigured several ways. It's likely your least expensive battery option right now. You might get part of a wrecked Leaf's 24 kWh pack for less, but it will get you less range. Count on taking the vehicle's final weight divided by ten as a very rough guess of required watt hours per mile driven. Figure out how many Wh you need for a given range, then divide that by 0.7 as you don't want to go below 70% depth if discharge if you want the cells to last, and that is the rough pack size you'll need at minimum.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm not one of the gurus on this site, and, maybe should not reply. Anyway, where are you located ? You don't have to give your home address, just a decent generality ie: rural near Houston, Tx, or, just North of Miami Fl.. will get you much better responses.

Have you heard about car-part.com? That is a website that has information on MOST used car parts available in the USA and Canada, maybe other parts of the world.

On this site, enter what you are wanting, using their drop down format. There are Chevy Volt 2013 year and up, that start at $1800.00. Maybe you can pickup, or need to ship ? Prices CAN be negotiated, unless you are talking to an idiot, like my Son did. Over a year ago, Volt packs were harder to find. He found one in New York State for $2200.00. He asked about mileage, didn't know. Asked about Voltage, didn't know. Asked how long they had it, about 8 months. Where is it physically sitting at their business, along side a shed, outside, on the ground, since late Winter. 

By not having any info, he offered $1000.00 with no guarantee the battery was any good. The guy had a fit. Son said, call me when you are ready to sell, I have cash. 

Finally, after another 6 months, and through another winter, that price was down to $300.00. !! The ad ran for several more months with no takers. Extreme cold is not good for unattended batteries, so, be smart and shop around. Once you find something you can afford, and, maybe pick up yourself, there is info on this site on how to measure the voltage of a pack before paying.

These Volt packs are Lithium Ion and you can regularly use 75% of the capacity, even 80%, but figure 75% and you are safe to not abuse the pack. You will need a charger to match the voltage, and, 144V chargers are easier to find/afford, than higher Volt chargers.

Lead batteries you are lucky to get 50% and that will go lower as you use them. Lead is dead, for most purposes today.

We finally bought a Volt battery and had it shipped to Florida, then Costa Rica where I live. I sold part of it and used a 20 cell pack for my Electric Motorcycle and the rest will be for powering all electronics and lights in my house. Next year I will buy another and be independent from the very unstable Power Company here.

On controllers, there is a DIY kit that many have built, for $600.00. It's 144V 500-600 Amp. Not exactly sure on the Amp rating. There is also a member on this forum that assembles the kit and tests the unit and sells them. 

As stated in earlier posts, everything depends on vehicle type, flat or hilly-mountainous terrain, and mileage requirements. Post these specifics, and your general location, and you will receive much more detailed information. 

Good Luck on your build.


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## rickyd123 (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I live in Spokane Washington. The terrain I plan to drive it is pretty flat. The area I live and work in is pretty flat. For a vehicle I'm thinking an older Ford Probe type of vehicle.
Is buying Lithium Ion battery packs from EBAY a good idea or a bad idea. I could ask the seller questions, but.....


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

As I posted, car-part.com. There is/was a couple in Washington State, recently.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

The problem with fleabay and other resellers is generally the product is 30% more expensive.

I favor volt batteries because I believe they are more forgiving and designed to be safer for general public. However the whole pack weighs close to 500 lbs.


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## rickyd123 (Mar 26, 2012)

When you say "VOLT BATTERIES", do you mean deep cycle batteries like golf cart batteries or fork lift batteries?


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## rickyd123 (Mar 26, 2012)

I just called a local wrecking yard. They have a few. There best is out of a late model hybrid vehicle with 30k miles on it. $1,300 bucks. Does that sound like a decent price. The battery is $800 with a $500 core. The older batteries are $600 plus a $500 core charge.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

You NEED to do your research. Hybrid means not much info. MOST E-cars are Hybrids. SOME have NiMh Batteries. That is Nickel/Metal Hydride. They have less capacity and are heavier. 

We told you the lesser expensive are Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf. There is also LiFePO4 chemistry. These are rarely used by Major Manufacturers. Several conversions use them, made by Thundersky, Calb, etc. 

Volt Batteries refer to CHEVY Volt cars. You don't necessarily need to pay a CORE charge. That's just some trumped up crap. We didn't pay it. SO, $600.00-$800.00 for WHAT capacity HYBRID car BRAND ?? Sounds like Prius or Ford small capacity NiMh batteries. 

Have you even investigated the ones we have recommended, so you KNOW what you are asking for ??

Final hint, Smaller yards need to roll over inventory quicker than larger yards. Some don't even sell to the public, outright. They sell to recycle/repurpose type yards, and NO, I'm NOT talking beer can type recycling yards.


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## rickyd123 (Mar 26, 2012)

I HAVE A NEW QUESTION ABOUT BATTERIES. Regular car batteries are 12 volt. I'm looking at charging systems. Before I buy batteries from a wrecking yard I want a charging system. If the batteries are bad or weak, I'll have 30 or 60 days to find out and return them and get my money back.
Are these leaf packs uniform in there voltages. Are the majority of the 48 volts or 72 volts ect... Can I look at the removed batteries and easily see their voltages. Do certain vehicle makes stay with the same voltage.
If I but a 24 volt charger and buy 72 volt batteries, will it still work. What about vice versus. I buy a 72 volt charger and 24 volt batteries.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

rickyd123 said:


> I HAVE A NEW QUESTION ABOUT BATTERIES. Regular car batteries are 12 volt. I'm looking at charging systems. Before I buy batteries from a wrecking yard I want a charging system. If the batteries are bad or weak, I'll have 30 or 60 days to find out and return them and get my money back.
> Are these leaf packs uniform in there voltages. Are the majority of the 48 volts or 72 volts ect... Can I look at the removed batteries and easily see their voltages. Do certain vehicle makes stay with the same voltage.
> If I but a 24 volt charger and buy 72 volt batteries, will it still work. What about vice versus. I buy a 72 volt charger and 24 volt batteries.


And how would you test those batteries for bad or weak units? And don't plan to use a lead-acid battery charger for Lithium. Most BEVs will use a charger at pack voltage, typically about 350V. Conversion EVs may run lower around 200V.

You need to study one of the threads or a website on Leaf or Volt battery systems. All the OEM BEVs do it their own way. But you're likely to find it something like this. The battery (pack) will consist of hundreds or even thousands of cells. The Lithium cell used will have a charged voltage of 4.1 to 4.2 Volts/cell (V/c). Anywhere from 1 to 6 cells are packaged into elements having 4.2 to 8.4V. Multiple elements are assembled into modules. The modules are almost always less than 50V for safety reasons. Not all modules used in the pack are the same size or voltage. Modules are assembled into the battery pack.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

rickyd123 said:


> I HAVE A NEW QUESTION ABOUT BATTERIES. Regular car batteries are 12 volt. I'm looking at charging systems. Before I buy batteries from a wrecking yard I want a charging system. If the batteries are bad or weak, I'll have 30 or 60 days to find out and return them and get my money back.
> Are these leaf packs uniform in there voltages. Are the majority of the 48 volts or 72 volts ect... Can I look at the removed batteries and easily see their voltages. Do certain vehicle makes stay with the same voltage.
> If I but a 24 volt charger and buy 72 volt batteries, will it still work. What about vice versus. I buy a 72 volt charger and 24 volt batteries.


Ricky
I'm sorry but I don't think you should be building yourself an EV
The voltages involved in an EV are lethal
DC is much much more dangerous than mains AC

You need to do a lot more studying and heart searching before going on with your project


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