# 700 mile range charge in 1 minute



## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Could someone please explain to me how this is possible ? 

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/battery-technology-allows-700-mile-160435740.html


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

It's not possible
It's Fisker - the well known con 

700 miles range is what 250 Kwhrs? - in one minute is 15 Mega Watts 

At 1000 volts that is 15,000 Amps

And that is assuming zero losses!

It's a con from a known con man


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## rpsinghsethi (Jan 10, 2018)

Practically, its not possible because every battery takes time to recharge for 1 hours or more time. So, this range would be a myth.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

rpsinghsethi said:


> Practically, its not possible because every battery takes time to recharge for 1 hours or more time. So, this range would be a myth.


NO NOT at all

Batteries used in EV's can be charged a LOT faster than 1 hour!

That is called a 1C rate

Charging at 4C is not uncommon - and can give a full charge in about 20 minutes

20C is eminently possible with a battery that is designed to do that


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

hmincr said:


> Could someone please explain to me how this is possible ?


Some background (here)... Fisker is one of those companies you love or hate (especially for Tesla fans)... time will tell whether any of these claims are 'real'... personally I hope they are, we really need a step change in battery storage capabilities


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

Duncan said:


> It's not possible
> It's Fisker - the well known con
> 
> 700 miles range is what 250 Kwhrs? - in one minute is 15 Mega Watts
> ...


And just think, nothing is 100% efficient. The inefficiency primarily presents as heat. If the process were 95% efficient then you'd have about 750 kilowatts of heat generated over the course of 1 minute. That's a lot of heat. It's equivalent to burning about a quart of gasoline over that one minute interval. To my knowledge charging tends to be ever worse than 95% efficient so the losses only increase from there. 

I don't know of anything other than a capacitor that could even handle a charging speed nearly this fast. What sort of cabling would you even use?! 15kA is quite a lot of current. If online calculators are to be believed, you'd need something like a 300mm diameter cable?!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Duncan said:


> 700 miles range is what 250 Kwhrs? - in one minute is 15 Mega Watts


Playing devils advocate, Tesla are already claiming 1.6MW on the Semi using an 8 pin charge port (here)... are we really saying that Fiskers claims are *impossible* or they are simply beyond anything that we can imagine today


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

You're looking at electrically recharging. How about mechanical recharge? Like replacing the electrolyte in a flow battery. Or I think there is a zinc battery where the charge resides on the zinc itself and a spool of zinc ribbon is passed through a reaction chamber. Then recharging is reduced to exchanging a spool of zinc. Or just swap the entire battery. These approaches can be done very quickly.

Actually most folks will use EVs like I do. Almost every recharge occurs in my garage overnight. Three to five hours is no problem. I appreciate the long trip and fast refuel desire. I think other solutions will be developed, like periodic "charge lanes" where you can recharge while driving.

Be interesting to see how it plays out.

major


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Scroll down to the end of this article and have a look at *Electrek's take* - it makes sense to me.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Playing devils advocate, Tesla are already claiming 1.6MW on the Semi using an 8 pin charge port (here)... are we really saying that Fiskers claims are *impossible* or they are simply beyond anything that we can imagine today



Tesla already do what 300 Kw? with two pins so eight would do about 1200Kw

Sounds doable - but that would be a "Truck Sized" connector


The Fisker is 10 times as much again! - and in a car so that grandma has to be able to plug it in


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Duncan said:


> Tesla already do what 300 Kw? with two pins so eight would do about 1200Kw
> 
> Sounds doable - but that would be a "Truck Sized" connector


I'm not sure what you think a "Truck Sized" connector looks like, but the 1.6MW connector fitted to the Tesla Semi is about the size of an adult male palm (see photo), indeed it's smaller than most CHAdeMO plugs that I've used 

See this video for more details;


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I'm not sure what you think a "Truck Sized" connector looks like, but the 1.6MW connector fitted to the Tesla Semi is about the size of an adult male palm (see photo), indeed it's smaller than most CHAdeMO plugs that I've used


Do you think Tesla has actually charged a Semi at the claimed rate to the claimed capacity with this connector (or _any_ connector)? Since the current prototype is for show, with specs that are generally phrased as characteristics of the truck which will exist in a few years, and many technical details are deliberately not mentioned, I suspect that the connector is "conceptual".  I'm not suggesting that it's just fiction, but it also seems unlikely that it is a complete and proven design.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

brian_ said:


> Do you think Tesla has actually charged a Semi at the claimed rate to the claimed capacity with this connector (or _any_ connector)?


Who knows? If you start doubting what Musk says then what about the rest of the semi or 2020 Roadster announcements 

What we do know from the Model S/X is that Tesla use very small cables for their power conductors. The outside diameter of the four power conductors on the EU charge connector is 10.6mm (25mm2 cable?) and the US charge connector drops this to just two power conductors although they are slightly larger diameter iirc.

In 2015 Tesla claimed Superchargers supported 145kW, limited to 120kW by the car, according to disclosures made during the UK ASA Complaint (here). In 2016 Musk said that Supercharger V3 will exceed 350kW (maybe that's now called the 'Megacharger' and needs a new connector?).

Whatever you believe, it is interesting to consider the length of DC power conductor used in the Tesla Supercharger architecture. Conductors travels from the bank of chargers in the Supercharger cabinet, across the forecourt, in/out the Supercharger 'stand', into the car, through the HVJB, and then finally into the battery... that's a long way


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

There is a rumor about, that some months ago, a Semi used a group of 4 Superchargers at once for a recharge. The people in charge of the Supercharger system noticed late one night, at a station near the Fremont plant, a group of 4 Superchargers going on and off at the same time and drawing a huge amount of power!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

electro wrks said:


> There is a rumor about, that some months ago, a Semi used a group of 4 Superchargers at once for a recharge.


I find it hard to imagine how you could physically plug one vehicle into four Superchargers, the cables are short and most sites have the charging stalls in a row


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I find it hard to imagine how you could physically plug one vehicle into four Superchargers, the cables are short and most sites have the charging stalls in a row


Extension cords?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Whatever you believe, it is interesting to consider the length of DC power conductor used in the Tesla Supercharger architecture. Conductors travels from the bank of chargers in the Supercharger cabinet, across the forecourt, in/out the Supercharger 'stand', into the car, through the HVJB, and then finally into the battery... that's a long way


It's a long way if it consists of conductors which are too small. It's not unreasonably far for properly sized 400 volt power cables.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

brian_ said:


> It's a long way if it consists of conductors which are too small. It's not unreasonably far for properly sized 400 volt power cables.


Sure... thankfully we don't have to guess at the Supercharger site details because they're available online (here)


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

brian_ said:


> Extension cords?


Sure, why not, it's only 120kW DC


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Sure... thankfully we don't have to guess at the Supercharger site details because they're available online (here)


Nice 

Sheet E-3 has the conductor specs and confirms that the run from the substation transformer to the Supercharger cabinet is much larger (greater cross-section) conductor (and it's short in this particular installation anyway). Sheet E-2 has the lengths from there, which are not long for runs of a few hundred volts (comparable to those in a house or commercial 

The longest bits are in the smallest conductor size, but are only carrying one car worth of current. These conductors are 250MCM, which is apparently an antique designation meaning thousands of circular mils. That's the first standard size larger than 0000 AWG, and has 126.7 mm2 area; it's good for 290 amps, so it's running right up to its limit... but not beyond that.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Sure, why not, it's only 120kW DC


Yes, seriously, for a test unit it would make sense to build cables of the same conductors and connectors as used for the standard cords. It's not as if these things would be sold to consumers.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I find it hard to imagine how you could physically plug one vehicle into four Superchargers, the cables are short and most sites have the charging stalls in a row


Hey, it didn't sound like it was pretty(massive extension cords, etc.). No VINs were involved, and the SC people quickly called around to other parts of Tesla to try to find out what was going on!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

brian_ said:


> Yes, seriously, for a test unit it would make sense to build cables of the same conductors and connectors as used for the standard cords. It's not as if these things would be sold to consumers.


Yeh, just being flippant... in the early days we often charged dozens of cars (many ~22kW) using extension cables that were 100s meters long... that was mostly AC but still impressive in some small town in the middle of the Swiss Alps


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Worst case it is only 32 foot so maybe they went in sideways. On a conventional cab over it could work for connectors down one side.


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

It is possible somehow.with ultra capacitors.but i dont know if fisker claims is provable or not.And the reporter says 8-9 minutes.


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