# Tesla's New P85D Model S Sports 'Staggering' 691 HP Electric Drive



## EVDL Archive (Jul 26, 2007)

The top-of-the-line P85D version of the the Model S retains its 470-hp rear motor and adds a 221-horse front motor, giving 0-60 mpg acceleration of 3.2 seconds.

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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

intrigued to find out how the 85kWhr battery pack can suddenly manage a 518kW output ( 6+C ) without even more overheating / power limiting that it suffered from in the standard car ?
And how does adding more drive wheels also give a top speed increase of 30 mph ? ... have they altered the gearing or motor rpm limits ?


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## steve-o (Oct 29, 2014)

How can Tesla get almost 300 miles range out of their cars when the DIY ones I've seen for sale average 50 miles ? I guess it's their proprietary motors/ drives and the Lithium battery packs they use?


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

It.is all due to the size (capacity..kWhr) of the battery Tesla install.
Most DIY builders dont want to invest the huge cost of an 85kWhr lithium pack, when they mostly only need 15-20 kWhrs for their daily commute.


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## steve-o (Oct 29, 2014)

Oh, ok. Thanks Karter2. It's all about the batt pack size then? I found this on the Tesla site:


> "Tesla is using Panasonic NCR18650a for 85kWh Model S, about 8000 of those gives you 90kWh."


 I can only imagine what one of those battery packs cost


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

steve-o said:


> Oh, ok. Thanks Karter2. It's all about the batt pack size then? I found this on the Tesla site: I can only imagine what one of those battery packs cost


The Tesla choice for batteries is the 18650 format cells. They chose these because of the energy density per unit of mass. About 250 wh/kg for the bare cells. The batteries we use in DIY are around 100 wh/kg which means a significant advantage in weight. However some of this advantage is lost because of the extra engineering needed to keep these batteries from burning down the car.

We don't know what they pay for the cells but it is probably somewhere between $2 and $2.50 each making the cost of the cells alone $14000 to $18000. I just thought of another way to estimate this. The difference in price between the 60kwh pack and the 85kwh pack I believe is $5500 (subtracting out the supercharger usage costs). This implies that 15kwh of pack is $5500 so the actual cost of the cells in the 85kwh pack is $31167 or $4.39 per cell. It is probably less than this and there is additional profit in the $5500. The gigafactory should cut the costs of the cells somewhat. The rest of the stuff in the pack is relatively inexpensive and in quantity less than $1000.

It is difficult to do the necessary engineering in a DIY environment to make this kind of pack reasonably safe and long lasting.


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## Ampster (Oct 6, 2012)

In some forward looking statements, Tesla is hoping the Gigafactory that they are building in Nevada will bring costs down to $1/kWh. I don't know if that is in regard to pack costs or cell costs. Some Tesla Motors Club forum posters have suggested that cell costs are already at that number. A pack, including BMS at $1/kWh would give them a leg up on building an affordable EV.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Ampster said:


> In some forward looking statements, Tesla is hoping the Gigafactory that they are building in Nevada will bring costs down to $1/kWh. I don't know if that is in regard to pack costs or cell costs. Some Tesla Motors Club forum posters have suggested that cell costs are already at that number. A pack, including BMS at $1/kWh would give them a leg up on building an affordable EV.


Don't you mean $100/kwh. Their pack would cost $85 if it was $1/kwh. I paid about $422/kwh for my GBS 100AH cells. And I am guessing the cost of materials is about 1/5 of that which would make the cost a little less than $100/kwh. The Tesla batteries have some cobalt in them which could change the cost upwards somewhat. I could just barely see Tesla buying cells from themselves at the cost to manufacture and getting this down to $100/kwh.


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## Ampster (Oct 6, 2012)

Yes, I definitely slipped a digit. $100/kWhr sounds more realistic. I will double check my sources and edit my post.
Here is a link to the TMC thread:
http://www.TeslaMotorsClub.com/showthread.php?t=17590
One poster in August referred to Elon Musk saying he would be disappointed if it took 10 years to get there, meaning that he hopes to get there sooner.


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