# Making it Legal: Insurance and Registration



## zig06 (Aug 3, 2008)

In Michigan until you can exceed either 25 or 35mph (I forget) any electric motorcycle conversion is considered a moped.


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## flashedarling (Jun 30, 2008)

zig06 said:


> In Michigan until you can exceed either 25 or 35mph (I forget) any electric motorcycle conversion is considered a moped.


It is the same in maryland with anything between 20-25 mph top speed being a moped. 

But I'm going significantly faster (60 mph top speed) so I'm wondering how I should classify this sucker. 

UPDATE:

After talking with the MVA a second time the lady I got this time tells me that all I need is a receipt for my motor along with the title to get it registered and get a waiver for the emissions inspection. I hope this is the case because that will make it easier.

I still have no luck getting an issuance agent who knows what to do. I guess I could just get insurance on it as an unmodified vehicle but I feel like I'll probably be breaking a rule somewhere that may get me in as much trouble as not having insurance period.


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## zig06 (Aug 3, 2008)

I would treat it as a kit bike or something like that. But as an "unmodified vehicle" may cause problems down the road, as it clearly has been modified.

This makes me think that I should spend some time investigating what's going on in Michigan. If it's too much of a hassle to legally get it on the road then I'll "pull the plug" on this project before it gets too far out of hand.


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## skullbearer (Jul 9, 2008)

I'd push to talk to management or a supervisor with the insurance guys... the phone jockeys don't hardly know what happens when they press the buttons.


Its not like EV's were born yesterday, nor conversions, someone somewhere in the company knows or has a set of rules regarding it. I know on Progressive's and Geico's motorcycle insurance pages you can list it as '0' cc and it says next to the cc box that "0 cc for electric"


I seriously doubt they don't know what to do.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I just insured my VFR700 electric motorcycle with progressive for ~130 a year, liability only plus uninsured motorist protection through my agent in Washington. I live in Oregon, and she said they have no problem but it does have to be noted that its electric for liability reasons. They wouldn't do comprehensive on a motorcycle, which is ok for now. They didn't give her much trouble, but had to note it.

Insured yesterday with Sheri Bardessono at Western States insurance (insurance agents). She did a ton of footwork for me. She can get you the name of the underwriter at Progressive. Safeco would do it too, but it was almost 3 times the rate.


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## electriKAT (Aug 15, 2008)

I am in MD also. I have heard that modified vehicles need to be inspected at the main Glen Burnie branch of MVA on Tuesday mornings. I do not have more details yet, but I know someone who went through the process.

Also, I got an insurance quote from Progressive. They seem to be a good choice as most companies don't know what to do with a converted EV.


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## skullbearer (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't know about you guys, but Progressive has always quoted me a good 10% higher than Geico after I'd been driving for 4 years.

My brother got his Ninja 250 insured for less through them though, but he hasn't had a license for 4 years yet. After the year of insurance, he'll be switching back to Geico.


Also, remember that you might actually have to deal with the insurance company one day. In every instance I've dealt with Geico they've really brought out the big stick in my defense, and because of issues with a repair station they actually got the station shut down and the owner was arrested for smudging paperwork to convince Geico repairs were done when they were just hiding them with bondo. I noticed the bondo work and made a fuss, and three days later they told me 'we had the guy arrested'. I was like HOLY $7#!


Progressive however, completely bailed out on my brother when a parking garage attendant told him to go through with another vehicle, and that vehicle was damaged by the automated arm. We had ridden our motorcycles in (there is a sign saying we couldn't go in but I had to go back and walk within three feet of it to read it, and its not by the driving lane). When we left I gave the guy two tickets and he processed only one. I said 'Only one ticket' and he said 'yes, you have to go together at the same time or it will close on you' then opened the gate. I freaked, went, and my brother stayed cause his Muzzy made it impossible for him to hear.


Instead of processing the second ticket, the guy processed a car's ticket behind my brother, and told him to go. He went, the arm came down as the car tried to go too, and then the driver and ticket guy said that my bro shouldn't have gone and was told not to. Why did he open the gate though? Anyways, the Progressive agent agreed it was obviously not my bro's fault, but they totally filed it as such. After a lot of heated arguing they finally fixed the situation and the parking garage paid for it, and they removed the 'fault' from their records. But that took a LOT of arguing, and they didn't even want to speak to me as a direct witness!

So my advise is to be careful, you aren't just dealing with dollar figures.


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## electriKAT (Aug 15, 2008)

Wow, sorry to hear about your problems. And thanks for the heads up regarding Progressive. But the problem is finding *anyone* who will insure a converted EV, not just finding the best price. I think Geico is one of the companies I called back when I was searching. It may have just been the agent I spoke with, but no one I found would touch a converted EV except Progressive.


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## skullbearer (Jul 9, 2008)

electriKAT said:


> Wow, sorry to hear about your problems. And thanks for the heads up regarding Progressive. But the problem is finding *anyone* who will insure a converted EV, not just finding the best price. I think Geico is one of the companies I called back when I was searching. It may have just been the agent I spoke with, but no one I found would touch a converted EV except Progressive.


And Progressive is the only one that allows you to enter the vehicle as '0 cc' or electric for any model of car or bike, AND give you an immediate quote. Might be what you're stuck with. I'm surprised some of the people who've been driving their conversions haven't piped up on the subject.


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## grose (Apr 30, 2008)

When I went through insuring our EV car I went to a local insurer. They had no idea what to do. After discussing it with them, they created a policy for my EV. They figured more electrics are coming so they wanted to be proactive. They also took pictures of the EV's components and copied receipts - to establish a dollar value for what they were insuring. 

Perhaps you can find flexibility if you go with a smaller insuring business like I did.


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## Persanity (Jul 5, 2008)

I just called progressive, They can't not insure a custom electric vehicle you need to go to a independent underwriter. The option on the site about '0' cc for electric vehicles is for when you choose a company that make a DOT approved electric vehicle that they have on there lists of vehicles with specs that they can use to calculate a rate to insure the vehicle. I was very dissappointed when I called and was turned away. I tried as a 1984 Kawasaki GPZ electric motorcycle a 2008 Homemade/kit vehicle electric and a 2008 speed limited electric moped and none where insurable by them.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm currently insured from progressive liability only as an electric VFR700F converted motorcycle.

My insurance agent is Sherri Bardessono in Prosser, WA with Western states insurance. She can help you contact the right people.


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## Persanity (Jul 5, 2008)

I will try her if you can provide a direct number. But with how it was explained to me I doubt she can help. The bike I used for my conversion is not a bike they could insure even if it wasn't electric cause they have no specs for my exact model. If I get a new vin number and it becomes a 2008 electric vehicle it might be a different story. I am gonna limit the bike to 30 mph anyway so hopefully I can avoid registration and insurance and just get a plate that says moped and slap it on for the cops sake.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Its got to have a titled frame, with a usable VIN number.... if not, you're kinda screwed.

And even if you could limit to 30mph, most states require a license plate, and for that you need a VIN.


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## Persanity (Jul 5, 2008)

I currently have a vaild vin number for the stock bike I just dont have it on hand. I was told by some idiot at the DMV that I might have to have it inspected and re-registered or whatever as a 2008 self assembled electric vehicle. If that happens I imagine I would get a new vin number that could be used. Maybe the 1984 Kawasaki GPZ had another model name or number that progressive does have under the kawasaki model pull down menu that I can try an get a quote with. But I will try to get ahold of your insurer regardless, Thanks.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

just get it titled, don't say anything about the electric conversion. Once you go to register it, then you change fuel type. What state are you in? You can't really get a new VIN number if its based on the frame of an existing vehicle. DO you have an agent you're working with in your state? Might have them contact Sherri and help you out.


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## zig06 (Aug 3, 2008)

frodus said:


> just get it titled, don't say anything about the electric conversion. Once you go to register it, then you change fuel type. What state are you in? You can't really get a new VIN number if its based on the frame of an existing vehicle. DO you have an agent you're working with in your state? Might have them contact Sherri and help you out.


+1

If you can't insure it as an EV, then just insure it as a normal motorcycle.


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## nozza36 (Apr 3, 2009)

Can anyone in the UK add any information to this thread ?
Do i need an SVA OR SPECIAL MOT , to get taxed and insured ?


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