# Ev complete and running but won't go over 30mph



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What's your battery undervolt setting?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Where would I find that?


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## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Ejeeper said:


> Where would I find that?


In your controller's "settings" software

What Remy is saying is, if the undervoltage setting is "set" for, let's say, 130V
...but, your battery pack voltage is only at ~127V

Then, your controller would sense this "undervoltage" fault
...& would/should put the vehicle into "turtle mode"


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

My undervoltage setting in Smartview in configure->battery->protection is set to 102v.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

You may be getting a transient voltage sag that's tripping the undervolt event that puts it in turtle. Set it to 10V and does it do the same thing? Put the setting back to what it was, after the experiment.

Tesla batteries aren't intended for low voltage applications because you need to pull almost 3x, likely more with all that inefficient Jeep iron and 90W sludge in the path between motor and tires, the current from what they're designed to do.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Is there something in a log somewhere that would indicate I am in turtle mode? Is there any chance it could be mechanical such as something wrong with the transmission? That is my biggest fear as I swapped the trans from an auto to a manual that I purchased on ebay. It was supposedly tested but I have no way of knowing. What exactly do I need to set to 10v?


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## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

Undervoltage setting which you now have at 102V 
later floyd


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Ejeeper said:


> Is there something in a log somewhere that would indicate I am in turtle mode? Is there any chance it could be mechanical such as something wrong with the transmission? That is my biggest fear as I swapped the trans from an auto to a manual that I purchased on ebay. It was supposedly tested but I have no way of knowing. What exactly do I need to set to 10v?


What gear are you driving in? Do you have any indication of what RPM the motor is turning at 30MPH?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

I start out in first then end up in fourth. The pedal is to the floor all the while. Is there some way I can share the log file from smartview? It has RPM and speed data.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

fyi log file shows it was not in turtle mode at any time during the test.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Does the log show your throttle percentage? Have you calibrated your throttle range?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

We don't need or want to look thru all the log data, just post up the voltage, current, and RPM while running at 30mph.

What is the gear ratio from the motor thru to the wheels, what size wheels and tires, how much does the vehicle weigh?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

These are my thoughts without knowing much more than what you have stated. I'd be happy to look at your log files. 
Can you run the controller with the BMS off for testing purposes? 

I skimmed the user manual of the controller you have. 

Eco setting could be a limiting factor if there is one. Did not see that in the manual. 

Valet setting limiting the top speed setting could be active. Did not see that in the manual.

Reverse setting could be active making the motor think it is in reverse and reverse should have a top speed limit to protect you while in reverse.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looking at the battery protection mapping and battery mapping sections it seems that your 127 volts is pretty much at the bottom of its charge so you for sure need to fully charge your batteries before anything else. Looks like from what you have stated your controller is set in its generic parameters and not yet setup for your specific needs.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Being at 127 volts and giving it full throttle it will cut back current and as you keep driving it will eventually not allow you to draw more current protecting your batteries. It is an excellent safety parameter. I have a similar one on my Synkromotive controller. It will cut back current so to never allow damage to the battery. Charge your batteries and be sure they are all in balance. Then get back with us if problems still persist but by all means post to my private section the log files and I'll have a good look at them.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Thank you! I don't know how to read the Smartview log file. The values under speed don't seem to be mph. The manual doesn't explain how to read it. A stock CJ5 weighs 2600lbs. I am probably close, gas motor was heavier than elec but battery weight and fiberglass tub make up for it. Tires are 31 10.50 15" . The controller clone file was set up by someone at Netgain. I just charged it up to 141v last night. I am not sure if I can take the BMS out of the system at this point. I attached the logfile. Thanks so much for the help everyone.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Ejeeper said:


> I start out in first then end up in fourth. The pedal is to the floor all the while. Is there some way I can share the log file from smartview? It has RPM and speed data.


You're not driving an ICE - 4th gear buys you nothing in an EV but excess current draw by the motor, which may be what's getting tripped. Stop driving it like your grandmother.

You need to keep it in a fairly low gear (2nd, 3rd if you are at a speed that exceeds max motor/clutch RPM)...the motor should be spinning at its max efficiency RPM or higher, not lugging like an ICE...there's no economy or range increase by driving it in direct drive (I assume it's a 4-speed).

In fact, it's probably the best way to smoke the motor and put excess heat in the cables, lowering range, and would kill the windings if the controller didn't back off on excess current draw because you are commanding full current while failing to increase driveline torque using the tranny. In 4th, very subtle road grade changes or throttle pedal can result in big current draws.

4th gear should never be used. Nor 5th if it's a 5 speed.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

I tried all gears. no change. It has absolutely no pickup after a stop. My pedal is to the metal, no power. It seems to pick up a little speed on a long stretch with no stopping.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"After a stop"

New data.

What exactly does that mean?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

stop sign


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Figure out why I noted your factoid. It wasn't about knowing there was a stop sign. There's something you're not telling us on the data side.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

I just got off the phone with a Netgain engineer. He logged into smartview remotely and verified all controller and motor settings were correct in my clone file. His theory is that there is a mechanical issue in the drivetrain. My drivetrain is the Netgain hv9 motor bolted to the jeep canev 5242 motor adapter then bolted to ax15 transmission. We tested throttle and motor speed with the clutch in and it still seemed to him that there was a drag somewhere. Has anyone ever had an issue like that? Anyone converted a vehicle with an ax15 dodge/jeep transmission? I really don't want to pull the transmission ugh.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Does it roll easily if it's not powered? Does it roll easily in a coastdown in neutral?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Does it roll easily if it's not powered? Does it roll easily in a coastdown in neutral?


I will test that out this weekend.


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## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Have you tried a "no load" test? 

With the rear wheels up off of the ground, how well or "smoothly" does the "drive train" function?
...powered (by the motor)
...& also, non-powered (by you manually, turning the wheel)

Also, 



Ejeeper said:


> The BMS2 software has no trouble codes except when I connect K2 low and K13 high from X144 controller to my can bus the canadapter gets a red light and BMS2 software disconnects, but I wouldn't think that was related to motor speed.


What trouble codes? 
...& what red light?

Some fault codes (& red lights) will affect motor speed 
...it's kinda their "job" (to protect you & the system)


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Photos of the adapter plate(s), alignment dowels, coupling, pilot bearing, clutch set-up( if you're using one), etc. might be useful.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Functional Artist said:


> Have you tried a "no load" test?
> 
> With the rear wheels up off of the ground, how well or "smoothly" does the "drive train" function?
> ...powered (by the motor)
> ...


That was caused by the baud rate of the controller at 500 can bus at 250. I changed that and the red light went away


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Functional Artist said:


> Have you tried a "no load" test?
> 
> With the rear wheels up off of the ground, how well or "smoothly" does the "drive train" function?
> ...powered (by the motor)
> ...


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Ejeeper said:


> My build is as follows: 6 Tesla batteries 144v, Netgain 9HV with X144 Controller...


Just so this makes more sense...
6 Tesla batteries _modules _144 _135_ V _(total, nominal)_
Netgain _HyPer_ 9HV with X144 Controller


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

electro wrks said:


> Photos of the adapter plate(s), alignment dowels, coupling, pilot bearing, clutch set-up( if you're using one), etc. might be useful.


Here are a few pics I could find. Not sure if they are useful. Thanks!


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Does it roll easily if it's not powered? Does it roll easily in a coastdown in neutral?


Took it out again yesterday after Netgain's engineer tweeked some profile settings. Not much difference, yes it will coast down hill. The acceleration was no different. It gets up to speed very very slowly. It did reach 40mph and probably would have gone faster if I was on a highway it just gains speed slowly and has no torque going up a hill. It is a 2wd. I can spin the rear wheels but they are tight.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

onegreenev said:


> These are my thoughts without knowing much more than what you have stated. I'd be happy to look at your log files.
> Can you run the controller with the BMS off for testing purposes?
> 
> I skimmed the user manual of the controller you have.
> ...


Hi Onegreenrv, attached is a new log file from yesterdays run. I just don't know how to read it as there are no units for the values. Under the speed column it goes over 100 and I know that wasn't possible. Are you familiar with the Smartview software? Do you know where I can get a manual? The help file is not all that helpful. I added the .txt extension so I could attach the file. It's a csv if you just delete the txt extension you should be able to open it with excel. Thanks!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Ejeeper said:


> Took it out again yesterday after Netgain's engineer tweeked some profile settings. Not much difference, yes it will coast down hill. The acceleration was no different. It gets up to speed very very slowly. It did reach 40mph and probably would have gone faster if I was on a highway it just gains speed slowly and has no torque going up a hill. It is a 2wd.


In what gear?

How fast does it go at max motor RPM in 2nd gear?

3rd gear?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> In what gear?


2nd


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Do you have a way to measure the motor current?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Do you have a way to measure the motor current?


In the log file

 Driver output 1 Current (mA) average is 578.29


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

That's not the motor current


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Ejeeper said:


> In the log file
> 
> Driver output 1 Current (mA) average is 578.29


?

Inv 1 Current (dA) ranges from 0 to 5116


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Ejeeper said:


> Here are a few pics I could find. Not sure if they are useful. Thanks!


More detailed photos of the parts mentioned will be needed for us to look at. Are you using a pilot bearing that picks up the end of the trans. input shaft? This is also an area where the end of the input shaft can jam against the end of the motor output shaft, causing a lot of drag. Are you having any vibration issues?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I don't have time to argue with you.

Motor current in AMPS, not mA (the number you originally cited was a ~half an amp), not scaled in Octal, Hex, or binary, when it maxes out in speed.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

electro wrks said:


> More detailed photos of the parts mentioned will be needed for us to look at. Are you using a pilot bearing that picks up the end of the trans. input shaft? This is also an area where the end of the input shaft can jam against the end of the motor output shaft, causing a lot of drag. Are you having any vibration issues?


yes I am using a pilot bearing. I don't have excessive vibration or noise. Hard to tell tho with a Cj5 that needs a front end alignment, big tires and a vacuum pump for the brakes. Unfortunately I don't have any other photos.


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## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

Could this be the limiting factor "BMSMaxAllowed" last figure in each line. Does the BMS have a setting that limits the Amps it outputs?
later floyd


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

floydr said:


> Could this be the limiting factor "BMSMaxAllowed" last figure in each line. Does the BMS have a setting that limits the Amps it outputs?
> later floyd


That column was empty in the log. Unfortunately I can't find any manual or info on how to read the Smartview log file. The 

Driving Lim. Torque Traction (%)
column looks like it could be limiting something but again I don't know what or how it is limiting.


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## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

I see, didn't count the items but assumed that the last item on list was the same as the last item on the csv. my mistake
Later floyd


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Measure the motor current, ffs. 

Troubleshoot instead of guessing.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

I've had a look at your log file.

First of all, I would disable CANBUS completely. The Hyperdrive 'talks' in traditional CAN where the Orion BMS uses the OBD2 Protocol - they cannot talk directly to one another. At best it will just generate traffic on the bus.

The Vehicle Speed column is calculated from the RPM. Since you've got a manual box, it means little unless you know what gear you're in at the time. The calculation is circled in green.

Make sure the control type is set to TORQUE. Circled Blue. That will give you a throttle response more similar to an ICE. Setting to SPEED makes it impossible to drive IMHO.









Make sure the maximum limit is set to the max RPM you want your motor running at (somewhere between 6500 & 8000 rpm).

It looks like your throttle mapping is OK, even though it maxes out at 80%. You can change it to 100% on this screen:








This throttle curve works for me - but you can set whatever you like!
Make sure the min & max values in the boxes at the bottom are greater & less, respectively, than the values set in the configuration tab:








Otherwise you get an error. These values should be outside what you can normally get with the throttle. If it does reach one of these values, it shows the throttle is bust!

Go to the Torque settings tab:








You may only see one profile. The profiles are normally selected from the little LCD display they supply, but it is possible to switch profile using one or two of the digital IO lines, if you set it up.

Make your Acceleration rate 100%









In the speed limits, I would set forward and reverse to 100% for now, just in case the direction is reversed.
In the other tabs (By Analog Input etc) disable them! You can use these to set a top speed based on a number of inputs. For example, mine is set to limit the torque & speed if the park brake is applied. For now though, just disable them.








Similarly in torque limits, disable them (set the digital inputs to 'not assigned'). In the above, IO8 is used when the battery is getting flat & IO7 when it's fully charged to limit regen.

Go to System configuration & make sure you have appropriate values for your battery. You may be able to select your battery type from the drop down list - or roll your own.








This is important because the controller cannot read these values from the BMS.

Continued.....


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

The values on this screen are also important. I've set mine to kill the regen current well before the max pack voltage. As the pack discharges it has a gradual roll-off in power - so you can feel the battery getting low.

This is where you set the operating profile with switches, instead of the display. Don't worry about this for the moment.









Lastly








Set the value circled to the max current you want / the max the batteries can spit out. Don't change the other values.

I would try putting the Jeep in neutral and look at the live values on the diagnostic screen to make sure the motor is reaching max RPM when you floor it. Blip the throttle & you should see the current spike too.

These are all the useful settings I can think of. Save them in a new clone file. Then you can easily revert to the original. The clone files provided are mostly to set the technical motor parameters - everything else you have to set yourself. I'd bet one of the above is the root of your problem!

I wish someone was there to explain some of this to me originally. I've probably not got it all entirely correct - but this was just the result of a lot of trial & error.

Si

P.S. I did get the Orion & Hyperdrive to talk to one another via CANBUS, using an Aduino as a translator. However I found the Hyperdrive was too sensitive to things like packet timing & kept generating an error & stopping the motor (not ideal when you're driving on the highway at the speed limit). After a few days I was sick of it and went back to it being dumb!


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> View attachment 132964
> 
> The values on this screen are also important. I've set mine to kill the regen current well before the max pack voltage. As the pack discharges it has a gradual roll-off in power - so you can feel the battery getting low.
> 
> ...


WOW! Thanks for that. Just what I was looking for. I see that you are using the OEM version not the DLR version I had. A lot of those parameters were greyed out in mine so I upgraded it to OEM. I will start slow and change one thing at a time so it may take awhile to test but I really appreciate all the time you took to screen print each page. The help file in this version is also much better. I am really hoping this is just a settings issue and not a physical problem with motor, adapter or transmission.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

[/QUOTE]Can I just take the controller off the can bus and leave the Orion? I was trying to use the Orion data to run Torque Pro on my head unit to display battery soc, current and speed. So far not so successful maybe just what you are saying, the HV9 is not talking the same language.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

You could just disconnect the CANBUS from the Hyperdrive - but you still need to disable it in TAU. Personally, I'd leave it connected. Down the line, you might want to use it. You never know, Orion might add proper CAN to their BMS?

100% your problem is in the settings! 
If it were caused by a source of drag, that source would be soaking up 100Hp plus. That alone would very quickly turn it into a moulten blob of something!
Also, your log file shows the power sent to the motor is very limited.

You won't get Torque to read data from the Hyperdrive - as you say, they speak completely different languages! In a way, it's good that the Orion speaks OBD, as it means you can read all your battery status data with torque.









You may still be able to read the speed from the Vehicle ECU in Torque. RPM is really the only thing you might want out of the Hyperdrive - and honestly it's not very useful to know in an EV as the controller limits the RPM to something that's safe.

I've made my Tacho read the power (Voltage x Current) delivered to the motor (read from the Orion) which is more useful info.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> You could just disconnect the CANBUS from the Hyperdrive - but you still need to disable it in TAU. Personally, I'd leave it connected. Down the line, you might want to use it. You never know, Orion might add proper CAN to their BMS?
> 
> 100% your problem is in the settings!
> If it were caused by a source of drag, that source would be soaking up 100Hp plus. That alone would very quickly turn it into a moulten blob of something!
> ...


Excellent info thanks! What is your vehicle, traction pack and charger? Do you run Torque from the phone/tablet or do you have an android head unit? I get speed from the Pumpkin PX6 chinese head unit gps, not sure how accurate but it's close. My donor Jeep is a very old '70's rebuilt with parts of everything several times, with no ECU. It needs a front end alignment & rear wheel bearings. I upped the traction profile 1 acceleration to 100% from 70%, I changed speed limit max forward speed to 100 from 80. After that test run it improved somewhat on the straightaway. Current was reading around 300-400 on the live data screen going probably 30mph. Then I upped the current on the motor and control 1 tab to 390 like yours. I definitely got a bit more on the top end but still VERY slow out of the gate. I am going to try using 100% for max reverse today. I still have that at 30%. I does seem like reverse may have more power from a dead stop.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

My vehicle is a 2021 Polaris General - Thread here https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/electric-2021-polaris-general.206376/

It's running a Hyper9, Elcon 3.3kW Charger, Orion BMS, Mystery 1kW DCDC Converter. The Orion & charger talk happily over CANBUS.

I'm just using Torque for battery diagnostics. My dash is entirely CAN driven - so I have an Arduino which reads parameters from the Electric drive + original ECU + ABS Controller to display speed etc on the OE dash.

I also have a little display based on one of these, An M5-Tough:








Which displays calculated range & a few other bits of useful diagnostic info.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> My vehicle is a 2021 Polaris General - Thread here https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/electric-2021-polaris-general.206376/
> 
> It's running a Hyper9, Elcon 3.3kW Charger, Orion BMS, Mystery 1kW DCDC Converter. The Orion & charger talk happily over CANBUS.
> 
> ...


just WOW! I took a look at your build link. I am quite impressed! Your attention to details and the precision of the build are amazing. That motor bracket looks exceptional. What battery modules are you using ? They look much smaller than my tesla's. I chose them because it seemed like they had more capacity for the size but yours fit so nicely. I sort of wished I hadn't used them because of their shape and they are somewhat fragile and difficult to get them to fit gracefully in the battery boxes. But they do work well with the Orion BMS.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Ironically, I wish I'd used ready-made batteries from a car!
Mine are made out of Prismatic BYD LiFePO4 Cells. I wanted LiFePO4 because they're less likely to catch fire if abused!
I just assembled them into two packs which fitted in the space available!

The down-side is all the cell-tap wiring, having to get a near perfect connection to each battery. To make the Orion happy, I had to polish the terminals & buss bars to get a good enough connection for it not to throw a wobbly!

I'm fairly unimpressed with the Orion overall. It's fragile in terms of blowing internal fuses if you mess with the battery wiring while it's connected, since it can't talk to the drive,most of it's 'intelegence' and built in protection is worthless (and has to be disabled), it's not waterproof in itself and worst of all is not supporting any comms standard other than OBD2.

If I build another EV, I'll build my own BMS!


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Ejeeper said:


> Excellent info thanks! What is your vehicle, traction pack and charger? Do you run Torque from the phone/tablet or do you have an android head unit? I get speed from the Pumpkin PX6 chinese head unit gps, not sure how accurate but it's close. My donor Jeep is a very old '70's rebuilt with parts of everything several times, with no ECU. It needs a front end alignment & rear wheel bearings. I upped the traction profile 1 acceleration to 100% from 70%, I changed speed limit max forward speed to 100 from 80. After that test run it improved somewhat on the straightaway. Current was reading around 300-400 on the live data screen going probably 30mph. Then I upped the current on the motor and control 1 tab to 390 like yours. I definitely got a bit more on the top end but still VERY slow out of the gate. I am going to try using 100% for max reverse today. I still have that at 30%. I does seem like reverse may have more power from a dead stop.


Here is the log file after the above changes. It will be awhile until I can test the reverse setting. The gear shift tower bushing disintegrated and I am waiting on the part. I put a few more things in the log maybe you could take a look? Do you think it could be that reverse setting? I see some negative numbers in the log.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Something is still not right. Your peak current is only about 130A and at that current, the pack has sagged by 5V or so. 
I don't know if that's good or bad for the batteries you have. Do you know what the peak rated current is for the batteries?

Could you post the screens from the Orion software showing 'Live Cell Data' for both voltage & resistance? That should give an idea at least of how much the cells should sag under load. This can be static, doesn't need the vehicle moving.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> View attachment 133015
> 
> 
> Something is still not right. Your peak current is only about 130A and at that current, the pack has sagged by 5V or so.
> ...


sure. Let me know if that is what you are looking for, thx


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

The battery spec says 750A Max & the cell resistance is <1mOhm which backs that up.

I just wanted to rule that out - for all I knew, you could have been running it off a load of flashlight batteries! 

Back to the drawing board!

Could you post the clone file you're using & I'll have a look to see if anything strikes me?


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Ejeeper said:


> sure. Let me know if that is what you are looking for, thx
> View attachment 133017





SimonRafferty said:


> The battery spec says 750A Max & the cell resistance is <1mOhm which backs that up.
> 
> I just wanted to rule that out - for all I knew, you could have been running it off a load of flashlight batteries!
> 
> ...


Feels like it's running on D cells lol. Just remove .txt extension


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Did you commission the spin sensor when you set it up?








You may as well set the max current value to 750A. I don't think it's the current problem - but you're limiting yourself to 50% of what it could deliver from the start.









Temporarily change these to 100 too.
If it were running in reverse and you're limited to 30% of the max amps above (390A) = 117A which isn't far off what you're seeing!

You still have CANBUS enabled








Set 'My Role' to 'Stand Alone'. Otherwise, I think it's expecting input from the BMS.









Do you actually have switches connected to Input 7 & 8 to select the profiles?
If not, change 'By Switches' to 'fixed profile'. At least then you know what profile you're running.









Do you have the 'compact display' installed? If not, disable it. Change 'COMPACT CR001' at the top to 'None'

If you do have it installed, the previous screen selecting the profile by switches, ought to be set so you can select it from the display.

Have you installed a switch to change direction, or are you still using reverse on the box?








I've you don't have a forward / reverse switch, it might be worth looking at the state of Digital Inputs 2&3 in the Live Data to see if it thinks you've selected reverse.

If 'reverse' from the motor's point of view makes the car go forward, I don't think it's a problem - you just reverse the settings so it goes more slowly forward than reverse (on the controller).
I've not found anywhere you can reverse the 'forward' spin direction in Tau - luckily for me, it was correct for my vehicle.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> Did you commission the spin sensor when you set it up?
> View attachment 133026
> 
> You may as well set the max current value to 750A. I don't think it's the current problem - but you're limiting yourself to 50% of what it could deliver from the start. Yes spin sensor commissioned
> ...


I am anxious to test the changes expecially reverse updates. I may have to use a few plumbing washers in the shift tower to temporarily test it this weekend. I don't shift too much anyway.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

Ejeeper said:


> I am anxious to test the changes especially reverse updates. I may have to use a few plumbing washers in the shift tower to temporarily test it this weekend. I don't shift too much anyway.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Are you sure the throttle is working properly or connected properly? Do you get movement in your vehicle when you barely touch the throttle and does it give acceleration during the entire throw of the throttle even though you are saying you can only get about 40mph.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

onegreenev said:


> Are you sure the throttle is working properly or connected properly?


That's actually a good question!








I'd not noticed that the throttle only seems to give values of 0 or 80%, nothing in-between. I don't know if a 'binary' throttle would upset the controller - but it might be worth investigating!


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

onegreenev said:


> Are you sure the throttle is working properly or connected properly? Do you get movement in your vehicle when you barely touch the throttle and does it give acceleration during the entire throw of the throttle even though you are saying you can only get about 40mph.


Hummmm, I do have to "floor it" to get it to move from a stop. It's a Prius throttle and it was set up as per the Netgain manual. Is there a test I can do to see if it is working properly? Here's the wiring


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

This is the one I have installed : 2004-2009 TOYOTA PRIUS GAS ACCELERATOR PEDAL PAD 78120-47050 OEM KM508101


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

A Prius throttle will work fine.
Have a look at the live data, while you press the throttle. You should be able to see the voltage being read from the throttle vary from about 1000mV to about 4500mV as you depress the throttle. If not, check the wiring.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> A Prius throttle will work fine.
> Have a look at the live data, while you press the throttle. You should be able to see the voltage being read from the throttle vary from about 1000mV to about 4500mV as you depress the throttle. If not, check the wiring.


yes I definitely see the mV climbing as I depress the pedal. I went through all the wiring again with a meter from the Prius plug on the throttle and the plug on the brake pressure switch to the plug on the controller testing for continuity to make sure this table is accurate and all looked good. Here's another log from this am and the new clone file. Why does the speed show up over 200? I was only going about 40 at the most. Also I see we now are at 100 on the throttle and nothing less except 0. It has a bit more top end for sure but still slow from a dead stop.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

The 'vehicle speed' isn't your actual vehicle speed, it's calculated based on this:









I'm guessing you entered 3.73 as the ratio of your diffs? This needs to be multiplied by your transfer box ratio and multiplied again by the ratio of whatever gear you are in. Since the gear ratio is changable by the driver - and the inverter has no idea what gear you're in, or whether the transfer is in High or Low, at best, it will be accurate in one gear only.

Looking through the log file, the current is getting up to about 470A at 136V = 64kW
The rpm of the motor is increasing - so you are accelerating at that point.

Can you tell me what gear you're in, while you're testing? I'm wondering if it's too high - just like pulling away in a gas car, with it in 5th gear. It'll accelerate, but very slowly.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

I found the above for AX15 gearboxes. I guess you have a Dana20 Transfer? If so, that's 1:1 in High range.
If the 787mm is accurate, 31" tyres.

If you wanted a top speed of 70 at 6500rpm, the gear ratio would need to be 8.57:1
Your diff ratio is 3.73, so the gearbox ratio should be 8.57/3.73 = 2.29:1

That's pretty close to 2nd gear. I would test it in 2nd & see what it does?

If that's not the solution, the only option remaining is something binding.
You can easily test that by switching off the EV side, put it in 2WD, 4th Gear. Jack up a wheel and see how easy it is to turn. It ought to be pretty easy as the motor has almost no drag when de-powered.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> The 'vehicle speed' isn't your actual vehicle speed, it's calculated based on this:
> View attachment 133104
> 
> 
> ...


I started in second today and left it there. My gear shifter is still a temporary one. That is just what it feels like, a gasser in 5th to start. I got some tower parts today. Waiting on the repair kit.
Yes 3.73 is my rear axle diff


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

SimonRafferty said:


> View attachment 133107
> 
> I found the above for AX15 gearboxes. I guess you have a Dana20 Transfer? If so, that's 1:1 in High range.
> If the 787mm is accurate, 31" tyres.
> ...


It's a Dana 44 with 31" tires. It is a 2wd. I have spun the wheels with clutch in. That should disengage the motor from drivetrain right? It will turn but not super easy. It will not free spin much at all.

So I need to put 2.29 in the gear ratio box instead of 3.73?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

If it thinks you're going 200 when you are going 40, you are missing a scaling factor in there. It could be limiting speed because of that 200.

Set the controller up as if you only had 2nd gear is where I'd go with it (you fill in the 2nd ratio into the first gear entry, no other gears). And stay in 2nd gear, no shifting, no clutch use.

You also are asking for a trail of steel parts on the ground behind you if you keep stunting the clutch with an electric motor.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Try pulling the three power leads off of the motor( assuming it is a three phase motor) Start with the rear wheels off the ground by trying to turn the wheels, then the transmission/motor (in gear and out of gear) with the drive line disconnected. These components should all turn easily. Reconnect the power leads and repeat.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

electro wrks said:


> Try pulling the three power leads off of the motor( assuming it is a three phase motor) Start with the rear wheels off the ground by trying to turn the wheels, then the transmission/motor (in gear and out of gear) with the drive line disconnected. These components should all turn easily. Reconnect the power leads and repeat.


I have a main disconnect switch between B+ and 144+ wouldn't it be the same just to switch it off?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

This is a manual powered-off test to determine if you have a high friction drivetrain, or if the motor windings are shorted. Jack it up and turn the wheels by hand, then the trans/gearbox/motor by hand, doing this without and with the motor windings connected. There should be no HV power anywhere, it should be all be turned OFF for this testing.



electro wrks said:


> Try pulling the three power leads off of the motor( assuming it is a three phase motor) Start with the rear wheels off the ground by trying to turn the wheels, then the transmission/motor (in gear and out of gear) with the drive line disconnected. These components should all turn easily. Reconnect the power leads and repeat.



What is the source of the 5V supplies for the accel pedal? Are there other loads connected to it that might be pulling it down when the car is in READY mode for driving?

You never answered my question about what is the rpm, battery voltage and current, when you are running at 30 mph top speed?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

He's refused to actually measure those so far - relying on logs of what the controller THINKS is going on.


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## Ejeeper (3 mo ago)

kennybobby said:


> This is a manual powered-off test to determine if you have a high friction drivetrain, or if the motor windings are shorted. Jack it up and turn the wheels by hand, then the trans/gearbox/motor by hand, doing this without and with the motor windings connected. There should be no HV power anywhere, it should be all be turned OFF for this testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My motor is an AC 144v brushless Netgain Hyper 9 hv 144v 500A. Wiring was very well documented and has been looked over by a tech at Netgain. I have no gauges currently in the ev except a gps speedometer. The X144 controller has a very good software interface allowing detailed logging of information. So much so that it is difficult to decipher values without a manual. I am slowly getting it thanks to Simon and others who have helped me understand some of the output and how to convert it. From what I can gather from my most recent log my rpm at around 25-30mph was just over 1000. Current is getting up to about 470A at 136V = 64kW as Simon noted. After the above config changes top speed has definitely increased but it still is lacking the acceleration I expected from an EV. The Prius throttle appears to be working correctly as logs show it is getting 5v. I will try jacking it up again tomorrow. As I noted before the wheels spin but not that easily. Maybe I will try to video it. Thank you for your help.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Ejeeper said:


> My motor is an AC 144v brushless Netgain Hyper 9 hv 144v 500A. Wiring was very well documented and has been looked over by a tech at Netgain. I have no gauges currently in the ev except a gps speedometer. The X144 controller has a very good software interface allowing detailed logging of information. So much so that it is difficult to decipher values without a manual. I am slowly getting it thanks to Simon and others who have helped me understand some of the output and how to convert it. From what I can gather from my most recent log my rpm at around 25-30mph was just over 1000. Current is getting up to about 470A at 136V = 64kW as Simon noted. After the above config changes top speed has definitely increased but it still is lacking the acceleration I expected from an EV. The Prius throttle appears to be working correctly as logs show it is getting 5v. I will try jacking it up again tomorrow. As I noted before the wheels spin but not that easily. Maybe I will try to video it. Thank you for your help.


KB, I'm pretty sure this is a three phase motor. Ej, 64kW(~85HP) should give you 60-80MPH or more on the flat! You've got some serious drag or electrical problem somewhere!

Another test would be to measure the current going to each phase of the motor. They should be very close to each other. Test this with the rear wheels safely off the ground and the throttle fixed in a low to medium power position. Three clamp-on current meters(again, assuming this is a three phase motor) would be ideal to test this, but one safely and carefully moved to each phase wire could work with the throttle in a fixed position.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Again what the controller thinks and what is actually occurring may be different. If you scale something wrong in filling in the configuration, the logs will give you weapons-grade bullshit.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Someone said it before but it bears repeated: if the motor is really pulling that much power and you are only going 30 then it should be obvious. Things getting super hot and smelling bad or smoking, lots of noise and vibrations, etc. Should be obvious to the driver I feel like you could be giving more details. Post some photos of the vehicle and motor parts.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Okay i see that it is a 3-phase Synchronous Reluctance Internal Permanent Magnet motor. That type of motor requires a high resolution device to measure the rotor position in order to make synchronous commutation, it does not tolerate any slip such as an AC induction motor.



Ejeeper said:


> From what I can gather from my most recent log* my rpm at around 25-30mph was just over 1000*. Current is getting up to about 470A at 136V = 64kW as Simon noted.


Maybe there is some strange gear ratio action going on. There is a huge torque load on the motor such that it can only spin at up to 1000 rpm--that is like idle speed on most EVs. Is it a heavy vehicle? dragging brakes? 4wd gearbox locked in Lo? Something mechanical binding or misaligned?

Or, the commutation is out of phase and the motor is out of synch. (This is my guess based upon the dyno chart)

What sensor is used for commutation, e.g. encoder, resolver, hall effect sensor, etc?

The input power might be 64kW, but the output power is down in the weeds.

Can you get higher revs if you blip the throttle with the clutch pedal pushed in?


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