# Why Are Electric Cars Slow?



## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Electric cars have labored under the impression that they’re too slow, and an enormous percentage of the population still believe this to be the case.

The truth is, an electric car’s top speed...
More...


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

KiwiEV said:


> Electric cars have labored under the impression that they’re too slow, and an enormous percentage of the population still believe this to be the case.
> 
> The truth is, an electric car’s top speed...
> More...


Yawn!!!

I can spend $100K on a Tesla to get electric performance or muscle, or I can buy a used muscle ICE car for less than $5K to equal or exceed the performance and get the same 200 mile range or more. At least with the ICE I can pull into a gas station and fill up and get it worked on. 

On the race track and drag strip, you will eat ICE dust and smoke. On the consumer highway when you can compete with our ICE I will listen. Until then EV is just an expensive hobby and CULT.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Well, that is one opinion...

There are a few very fast EVs on the drag strip and there will be more.

Those of us that do our own conversions, don't need to go all that fast, 
if we don't have interstates to drive on.

Mine will hit 50+ mph on 72 volts. Is very reliable. Saves me a ton of gasoline. Saves the wear and expense of my ICE truck. Was low cost to build.

I don't drive my truck much over 50 mph either.....


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Sunking said:


> Yawn!!!
> 
> I can spend $100K on a Tesla to get electric performance or muscle, or I can buy a used muscle ICE car for less than $5K to equal or exceed the performance and get the same 200 mile range or more. At least with the ICE I can pull into a gas station and fill up and get it worked on.
> 
> On the race track and drag strip, you will eat ICE dust and smoke. On the consumer highway when you can compete with our ICE I will listen. Until then EV is just an expensive hobby and CULT.


You know comparing the cost of a brand new up market electric car to the cost of an ancient used muscle car is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. A Tesla verses a new Lotus might be more of an apples and apples comparison but I doubt that would produce the marked contrast you were after. I should also point out that the upfront price isn't the only cost.

Given the potentially superior power density of electric motors over ICE's and rapid improvements in the power density of batteries and other storage devices I think electric performance will one day be the norm on race tracks and drag strips. When Ferrari plan to build a hybrid you know its not about fuel economy but performance enhancement.


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## NZero (Jan 30, 2010)

John said:


> When Ferrari plan to build a hybrid you know its not about fuel economy but performance enhancement.


A very interesting point. And I do await the arrival of that beast!


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2010)

In the 60’s Detroit would stuff bigger and bigger hunks of iron in a car and call them mussel cars. While this was going on European car builders were building smaller engines and pound for pound getting more Hp. For the most part the American mind set is still more cast iron the more power. When the average guy looks at the 15inch by 10 inch motor and the scramble of wires they can not fathom the potential horse power. Show them a basic 350 chevy that puts out about 150 hp for example and its testosterone time. Now soup that chevy up say 10 hp and it could cost an easy grand. Build a basic ev package 144 volts curtis controller and 9inch motor and you get about 80 hp. Upgrade the controller for an extra $k and the hp can be doubled. Result ? From a moderately fast Ev to a very fast Ev. Here’s the kicker. You will most likely drive your fast ev slow because the energy (fuel) you carry is limited with limited places to get more. If you are sitting in your 440 Dodge hemi in the middle of no where with just a gallon of gas not knowing where the next fuel stop is you will most likely drive real slow nursing every drop of that precious liquid. If gasoline was as hard to find and took as long to transfer as electricity dose now then ice cars would be considered slow also. Ev’s hit the road years before the ice’s and were very popular. Big money along with other variables pushed the ev’s out. Big money and oil has a lot of influence on the auto industry so I will be surprised if any of the car makers come up with anything that gives oil much competition for a long time. It is up to tinkers like us to keep ev’s on the road and make future advancements. Tinkers were the humble beginnings of the auto industry and two bicycle mechanics without high school diplomas are credited for all the airplanes in the sky today so tinker away.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I have a $5k muscle car. I love it. It specs a 5.5 second 0 to 60, and a 155 mph top speed. I race it, and it is an awesome bang-for-the-buck car, but it is not supercar territory. Please tell me which $5k muscle car I can buy that goes 0 to 60 in 3.7 seconds! The cheapest way to go that fast I can think of is an older Corvette with a supercharger, that would be maybe $20k. You could also turn up the turbo on an AWD car, but good luck with the tranny if you do many 3.7 second runs, and you are still talking $20k. If you just slap a supercharger on a Camaro or Mustang, it won't have the chassis dynamics to get the power to the ground for that fast a 0 to 60 (but it will do awesome smokey burnouts!).

NotMrWizard: A modern 350 V8 puts out way more than 150 hp. Late model Camaros and Mustangs put out over 300 hp. My friend with a 2002 Camaro put in a cam and headers, and hand ported his heads. He dyno'd at 430 rwhp (500 flywheel hp) for < $1k in parts.

A well designed electric car will be able to out accelerate virtually any similar gas car. Electricity can do traction control far faster than a gas engine, you can change the torque output much faster. Listen to videos of the AC Propulsion Tzero out accelerating super cars -- you hear "chirp chirp chirp chirp" about 10 times a second -- very impressive.

Sunking, where you are right is that electric cars are a hobby and a cult. I disagree that it has to be expensive, though. Figure more than an economy car, but less than many pay for a new sports car. White Zombie does the 1/4 in the 11's, and would cost about $20k to replicate.

So why on earth am I building an electric performance car?


Something different
Cheaper than doing a performance rebuild on the original Porsche motor
Race records are more open and easier to set
Wave of the future
Everyone seems to love it. I get polite interest in my gas muscle car, but I get unbridled enthusiasm from a broad range of people about my electric car.
No more hassling with the annual inspection
The future fun of beating gas cars with a "slower" car (I get that fun now with my muscle car -- it is priceless to see the Porsche and WRX owners after they get beat!)
I "own" this car -- I'll totally understand it
I remember gas shortages when I was a kid -- I'll be more immune to that problem (admittedly not a likely problem)



Sunking said:


> Yawn!!!
> 
> I can spend $100K on a Tesla to get electric performance or muscle, or I can buy a used muscle ICE car for less than $5K to equal or exceed the performance and get the same 200 mile range or more. At least with the ICE I can pull into a gas station and fill up and get it worked on.
> 
> On the race track and drag strip, you will eat ICE dust and smoke. On the consumer highway when you can compete with our ICE I will listen. Until then EV is just an expensive hobby and CULT.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2010)

I realize Newer 350s have more than 150hp. The 350 I took out of a 74 Bellaire and put in my 70 Land Cruiser almost 30 years ago puts out about 150 hp. But that's not the point. One of the things I was getting at in a round about way is even though Ev's may be considered a hobby by many it is also an obsession to some. The same way ice enthusiast have been through the years. Some of those obsessed ones are likely to fart around and come up with some new innovations that will farther advance the electric car making it the first choice in transportation. Then we will have to find another off the wall project to ride around in.


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## Tophermen (Jan 8, 2010)

Wow, the GWiz. A slow, but reliable EV. With EVs I noticed, the output and performance depends on the motor, controller, and batteries. Equip a car with a good electric motor, but skimp on the controller and batteries because of cost, and you'll get most likely get a slow yet running EV. Now, equip the car all out with the best of the best and you'll get a high performance EV that's comparable to a sportster.

This senario is comparable to buying an ICE vehicle at a dealership. For example, you see a nice Nissan Altima you want to get that has two different engine choices. First option is the 2.5L I4 cylinder engine with an output of 170hp and 26mpg. Second option is the 3.5L V6 engine with an output of 270hp and 22mpg. Obviously, the V6 version has better performance compared to the I4. 

Ouput and performance depends on what you choose to put into the vehicle. EVs such as the GWiz are taking the "brunt of it" or should I say give EVs a bad name because of its low performance and output. Not a lot of people know that EVs can have comparable or even out perform ICE cars. Additionally, it's difficult to convince someone who is an ICE nut to think that an EV is a better alternative.

Then there is pricing between EVs and ICE. Pricing effects output and performance. From what I'm reading within the forums and with other posts, to have a DIY high performance EV would cost around $20k, give or take. Now with a new ICE, depending where you go, what car you want, package and etc., it will cost you between $18k-$30k or even more. Certainly that's a big price difference; however, there are other variables between ICE and EV that can effect the price such as maintenance, warranties, energy input, etc.

But then, how do you fund in building an EV where you can just buy an ICE car off the lot by doing monthly payments? Answer is just by saving up your pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters. It all comes down to price.

By the way, I don't want to denouce the GWiz. It's a good EV overall.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

hmm this thread's original intention seems more like marketing to me :-(


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm building a 1000+ hp EV that should be faster than the fastest production ICE - the Bugati Veyron. I will hopefully spend less money on the EV than I would spend to buy a Ferrari.

It should be finished in 5 months. I hope that this can finally prove that EVs are superior in every aspect


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

CroDriver said:


> I'm building a 1000+ hp EV that should be faster than the fastest production ICE - the Bugati Veyron. I will hopefully spend less money on the EV than I would spend to buy a Ferrari.
> 
> It should be finished in 5 months. I hope that this can finally prove that EVs are superior in every aspect


Can't wait to see it on Top Gear.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

wenowhavepower said:


> hmm this thread's original intention seems more like marketing to me :-(


No, it's not marketing. I like to write short articles on electric cars - particularly ones that dispel the old myths that people still hang on to. 

I invite you to read the article. I make sure I leave my marketing stuff for the Classified section!


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

wenowhavepower said:


> hmm this thread's original intention seems more like marketing to me :-(


You smell the same rat I do huh?


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Sunking said:


> You smell the same rat I do huh?


Well that's not very nice. I just enjoy writing articles on electric cars. It's just my moment on my soap-box if you will.

It's an article on how electric cars proving land speed records, how they aren't actually slow, and my theories on how EVs got this "slow" reputation.

As I said, I keep all my marketing stuff *strictly* in the Classified section only. I hope you get a chance to read the article so you can see it really is just that. An article.

Admittedly though, us conversion freaks are skeptics.


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## Overlander23 (Jun 15, 2009)

Wow... you guys have been watching the internet a little too long. You need to go outside and play with all the other neighborhood kids.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Overlander23 said:


> Wow... you guys have been watching the internet a little too long. You need to go outside and play with all the other neighborhood kids.


Too true mate. I'm off to the beach!!


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## AntronX (Feb 23, 2009)

Sunking said:


> Yawn!!!


So lets recap. You don't like electric cars, think global warming is BS, don't like solar power, etc. Now my question to you: Why do you visit this forum? Just to be a troll? This is do-it-yourself-*electric*-car.com after all. Find another place to play. Internet is very very big.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

Reason i said it's marketing is because if you visit/read the link, once you scroll down, you get a link to your advertised banner link.

Also, www.evsecrets.com and www.gavinshoebridge.com domain names are owned by the same person (even though the domain registration is set to private). I work in hosting (Systems Administrator), so i would know ;-)



KiwiEV said:


> No, it's not marketing. I like to write short articles on electric cars - particularly ones that dispel the old myths that people still hang on to.
> 
> I invite you to read the article. I make sure I leave my marketing stuff for the Classified section!


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2010)

On marketing; So what! Marketing is the way of life in the modern world. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. I liked the article. Keep writing Kiwi. Do I get a free book now? The only time marketing is a pain is telemarketing and you can have fun with that if you get a live person. Check this out.  howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

Not saying marketing is bad but there is "Marketing" topic on this forum as he pointed out. What's bad about marketing is when they present something as an article but in reality they are simply marketing their site(s).



notmrwizard said:


> On marketing; So what! Marketing is the way of life in the modern world. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. I liked the article. Keep writing Kiwi. Do I get a free book now? The only time marketing is a pain is telemarketing and you can have fun with that if you get a live person. Check this out.  howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com


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## Overlander23 (Jun 15, 2009)

Gavin's been on this site since 2007 contributing far more than advertising. He has converted a vehicle, even posted a bunch of interesting videos about it. 

He also has a business side, but chastising him for posting something on his blog is like chastising every contributor to this site who either has a blog with advertising on it (as a distant aside) or offers services but aren't sponsors. As far as I can tell, the blog article had nothing in it that was even remotely a hard sell (or even a soft one).

Say for instance that my blog site (the link you can find posted in my .sig) had an advertisement for a book I wrote in the sidebar. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to post links to my blog articles?

Or did you simply find the article uninteresting?


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

I am not trying to put the original poster down, was just stating the obvious.

As for:


> Say for instance that my blog site (the link you can find posted in my .sig) had an advertisement for a book I wrote in the sidebar. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to post links to my blog articles?


Nothing wrong with that BUT creating a new thread (not under marketing) that points to your blog (that you have in your sig), with the intention to sell books (by using a pop-up) is not correct (in my opinion). 

But of course that's what you would get from marketing , to each their own.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2010)

Enough already. I want to hear more about how to make our ev's faster so that the poky golf cart image is eliminated.


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## Overlander23 (Jun 15, 2009)

More cowbell...



notmrwizard said:


> Enough already. I want to hear more about how to make our ev's faster so that the poky golf cart image is eliminated.


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