# 1993 Eagle Summit Van/Car.



## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey guys, just wondering what you all think of this for an electric conversion? I found one in town for $1300 and it's in great shape.

Josh


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well I guess I'll ask this---Is there anything wrong with this conversion?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't think anyone has a clue what this thing is. Is it 4wd? Something like a Mitsubishi expo? got pics? Is this something you would enjoy driving everyday?


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## Tesla (Jun 27, 2008)

Is it this? http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1993-96-Eagle-Summit-93105051990208.jpg if so then it looks like a decent car to convert. does not look like the aerodynamics would be a range crippling factor and with a curb weight of about 2000lbs its relatively light. http://www.evalbum.com/1166 ?


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes, Tesla, it's just like the one Jack Bradshaw did without the scoop of course. It is a very small van if you will. I'd call it a compact van if there was such a thing. It's FWD but I believe they did make a 4wd one also. The one I've found is rust free for only $1300. I just wondered if it was even worth a look. I think these get around 30-35 mpg anyway.


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## Tesla (Jun 27, 2008)

looks pretty good, id put a spoiler on the top in the back (kind of like Jack's) to break up the wind to greatly improve the aerodynamics but other than that it looks like a good choice.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well it's official. The conversion has begun. Well, the car has been purchased anyway!  This is basically a Mitsubishi Expo LRV. It's very light weight yet it has a great payload capacity. 

I'm shocked that this car/van is pretty well rust free. It's very clean. For only $1200 I'm pleased. It's FWD and has a 5 speed manual transmission.

Now we're going to call EV-America and find out if they can help us put together a kit for our new EV Summit. My only worry is that they'll say "don't convert this car, it's a nightmare", but I doubt that will happen. 

Any of you that can help me I'd appreciate it. I need to decide what voltage we'll be running at. How big the motor needs to be. What batteries we need. I'm thinking 120V system, not sure on motor yet, and maybe 6v Trojan T105's.

Here are the goals:

Speed- At least 55 mph.
Range- At least 35 miles.

Our experience---My dad is a retired Union Plumber (36 years experience) and he used to build dune buggies, I'm a Union Pipefitter/Pipe Welder (10 years experience), and my brother is a Diesel Mechanic/Maintenance man (22 years experience). Hopefully between the 3 of us we'll pull this off. 

We're hoping to keep the cost of all components and batteries (but not including the car) under $8000. Is this a realistic goal? If we could meet our goals any cheaper of course, that would be Great!

Looking forward to hearing from any of you. I'll be posting pics as this conversion progresses. 

Here's an idea of what this car looks like.
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...le+summit+wagon+specs&ndsp=20&um=1&hl=en&sa=N


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

this is the only one of those i could find.perhaps you could contact them for some helpful hints on your conversion.

http://www.evalbum.com/1166


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Thanks Joseph, good idea. I just emailed him.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

We got it home last night!  I'm still shocked about the fact that this thing has no rust, not even on the underbody. I don't think this was a car from around here. 

But anyway, here's a couple pics before the big transformation.


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## ElSwede (Jul 3, 2008)

Very interesting. Seems like an Eagle Summit is called a Space Wagon/Space Star in Europe. They seat up to 7 people here. Mitsubishis are known not to rust, just replacement parts are hard to find in the Nordics...

I'll be watching this one.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

I believe the Mitsubishi Space Runner, Mitsubishi Expo LRV, Plymouth Colt Vista, and Eagle Summit are all the same car/vans. They are surprisingly small in person.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Made some great progress today on the Summit. My brother, my dad, and I got the engine, exhaust, and gas tank out today. We cleaned up the underbody a bit by cutting off any clips and hangers that were no longer needed. 

I made a boo-boo though! I cut the lines on the rack and pinion. We're going to make it manual steering but I didn't know I was supposed to leave the lines connected to transfer fluid back and forth. Oh well, we'll get it fixed. 

After we were finished we sprayed the engine compartment down with degreaser and then gave it several rounds of pressure washing. 

I believe we're ready to start laying out battery space. I think we may order our motor next week. As of now, we only have $3000 to spend until my dad sells his GAS GUZZLING 1990 4x4 Suburban. What else should we get with the motor to start installing? Adaptor plate and what else?

Pictures to come tomorrow!


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Hi JSRacer-

your expectations for range, performance, and the cost of the project seem pretty reasonable, based on my own experience using similar components.

If you live in a cooler climate area, make sure to build insulated, heatable battery boxes. Its the sort of thing that adds very little to the cost up front, but can be very hard to retrofit later.

Buy the batteries last. That way they won't sit and require maintenance and a periodic float charge while you are building the car. Also, unlike all the other parts these do have a shelf life, even if not being used so if anything goes awry or plans change, you aren't out the depreciated cost of the batteries. You can make cardboard mockups or find a couple used, DOA batteries to use as templates for the build.

BTW, while stripping the car, don't cut off brackets and such until you have placed all the new parts. Oftentimes things like exhaust hanger brackets and such are convenient to "repurpose" for other things, like cable supports.

The first two major things to figure out are the battery layout and the motor/transmission interface. The only EV components you need for this are the adapter plate and motor which should fit in the initial $3000. Everything else will be brackets and battery racks, all to be fabricated (presumably from angle iron or similar materials) to fit. Make sure to leave room for things like the motor controller and other components, though if your experience is like mine you will find that most of this stuff can find a corner here and there without too much difficulty once all the big parts have been placed. Assuming you are keeping the clutch, If you have any machinist buddies, have the flywheel lightened as much as possible, and remove the starter ring gear too. That's inertial weight you don't need. Hop-up lightweight aluminum flywheels may be available to fit as well, but those cost several hundered $$.

Good Luck!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Some more pictures!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well, we're trying to keep moving along. Today I ordered the 8" 203-06-4001A Advanced DC motor from EV-America. I'm also getting the clutchless adaptor plate and coupling with it. These are 2 weeks out. Later we'll get the Curtis 121C-7401 Controller and everything else. 

We're getting a Quick Charge "Select A Charge" charger with the kit. Is that a decent brand name? EV-America put a $800.00 price tag on that, is that high? 

We're definitely going with 120Vs. No turning back now. After laying out battery space in the car we figure that may be all the room we'll have without getting (more) top heavy. We're going to sink 2/3 to 3/4 of the battery cases under the floor board in the middle and rear of the car. We can fit 16 in the middle/rear and 4 in the front. 

I don't know if this is true, but I find it hard to believe. Batteries Plus gave my dad a quote on some Trojan T145's today at $150 a piece!!! No way!? That can't be right. The written quote doesn't say T105, it says T145. We'll see I suppose. 

I'll be back with more later!


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

A trojan T-145 is a 250 amp hour version of the 6v golf cart battery. It is one inch taller, and about 10 pounds heavier than a T-105. $150 per battery doesn't seem terrible at current prices. The T-105s should be around $120 per each. I believe I paid about $115 per battery for my T-105s about 10 months ago now.

Many would argue if you want to carry the extra weight do it with more voltage (add a couple more T-105s) as the higher voltage will contribute toward better top speed, in addition to more range, while the heavier T-145s will only give you better range.

Don't buy the batteries until your car is mostly done. They need maintenance and will just be in the way sitting there while you build and wait for parts to show up. You can make mockups from cardboard or styrofoam to use for designing your battery racks and making sure things fit.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Madderscience, here's the styrofoam cutouts we made at the Trojan T105 dimensions. We're going to make several more. 

Right now we're laying out battery racks and (just) pricing batteries. We hope to be finished in a month to month and a half. I hope everything keeps rolling for us!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

I know new tires aren't the best idea but this thing needed tires bad!!! So I figured why not get some new wheels along with them. 

The tires are el cheapos "Mohave"s I believe. But I did get a 185/75-14" tire. The wheels are also el cheapos but at least they're aluminum.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Also started a battery box. We'll be further along tomorrow. Everything is being TIG welded.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

If this was a Honda it would be called a tall wagon or a wagovan.

I used a power steering box in my Rx7 race cars because it has a faster ratio. I did not use the pump though. I simply connected the pressure line to the return line via a short length of rubber hose. You could probably do the same thing with your PS system. I don't think it's a big deal that you cut the hoses.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

We connected the 2 lines together transferring fluid back and forth in the rack. The other reservoir lines we plugged by smashing the ends shut.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Finally!  We got the motor this week and plan to have it in this weekend. I'll post back in a few days!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

More pics of the progress.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

I'm assuming the turnbuckle holding up the back of the motor is a temporary support?

Your progress looks great.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes, the turnbuckle the way it is now is definitely temporary. We had it lying around and figured it would be great to use as an adjustment. We may still use a turnbuckle but we'll have to do it a little differently.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Slow going still but here's a few of the mid and rear battery boxes.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

wow. I thought I made my battery boxes solid. You are already halfway to a tube frame chassis!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

And it's surprisingly very light. It's made with 1" square tube (stainless steel, not the lightest metal though) and 1-1/2" x 1/8" flat stock. It's all TIG welded.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

I ordered the rest of the package today. The controller is on back order so I'll have to wait on that. I'm still not sure about what charger to get. I like the convenience of 120V but I know that 240V would be much faster. But I'm leaning towards the Zivan charger. 

My question is how long would it take to charge my 120V pack (plan on getting Workaholic U2400 batteries) with the Zivan hooked up to 120V. 8? 10? 15 hours? 

I'm still looking for some information on this before I order the charger.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> My question is how long would it take to charge my 120V pack (plan on getting Workaholic U2400 batteries) with the Zivan hooked up to 120V. 8? 10? 15 hours?


It will depend on many factors... You mention your battery, and it will vary depending on your Ah capacity. It will also vary depending on what DOD the pack is pulled down to before you put it on charge. If you're equalizing, it will take even longer. Seems most folks with a setup like you're describing can get a full charge in under 12 hours from a 110v outlet. Hence the "overnight" rule of thumb.

If you can justify the expense, you could have an "offboard" charger for quick charging at the house, with the smaller one onboard for opportunity charges. Or, for comparable amount, you could put something like a PFC-20/30/50 onboard and have all the flexibility you need to make the most use of whatever outlet you have available.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Still plugging away. Should really start coming together in the next couple weeks. Almost everything should be here by the weekend. Getting ready to contact Interstate about batteries. I need to decide which battery. Then I can let Zivan know which program to throw in the charger. Here's another pic.


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## brent.massey (Jul 23, 2008)

JS, I'm tossing this question your way, but in reality I'm directing at everyone. I've seen you're looking at getting vented batteries, are you at all concerned about gas buildup inside the car? And have you thought about mitigating that risk? 

Not trying to knock your progress, or your design. You're work looks great so far! I'm still loking at donors, and have leaned away from mini-vans and vehicles where the batteries would be in the same compartment as the passengers. I guess it makes me jittery with that much voltage and potential danger. Have you thought about that at all? And is it a concern for you?


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Brent, absolutely it's a concern. The battery boxes we are building will be completely sealed from the inside of the cab. We plan to enclose them with plywood and seal them with caulk and a corrosion proof sealer/paint. Then we're going to mount up a Hubbell (electrical box) fan on the outside of one of the boxes which will draw fresh air in. We'll connect both boxes with 2'' PVC pipe so that the air is drawn through both boxes and vents out on the other box. We're hoping to wire the fan (120VAC) so that it will come on when the charger is plugged in. I am not certain that the fan is brushless. But the fact that the fan will always be drawing fresh air and always while charging should eliminate any risks.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

This is the fan we will be using. It came with filters. And it was free! 

http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/hubbellpremise/datasheet.asp?PN=REKEF&FAM=Cabinets


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Some pictures of the front battery rack that will hold 3 batteries. Also a pic of the motor mount that we put in.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

More pics!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

It's coming together. We're getting closer.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

We'll be using this Hypact UH for our control board. We're gonna make it hinge so that we can show off this nice Advanced 8" electic motor. We got our charger on the way. Our batteries are order but are 3 weeks out. We bought Interstate U2400s.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Couple more pics.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey, gotta Q for you guys. (If anyone visits this thread)  Should I use an enclosed box for some of the components? And if so, which ones? We are laying out our control board now.


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

theres always *somebody* watching. thanks for posting.

i would enclose everything except the controller, vacuum pump, dc-dc converter, and pot box. everything else (contactors, KSI relay, fuse) enclosed


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## jmarcus (Oct 17, 2008)

AAAHHH! where did you go? I am a new member, with an Eagle Summit wagon, and am facinated with your progress! Where is the continuation of this project??


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey JMarcus, this project is still going, and going very well. We only have weekends to work though, and this includes the necessary brainstorming time. We have big plans for this Eagle Summit. We plan to get a full vinyl body wrap with an eye catching scheme. We're now an Interstate battery dealer and got a great price on our batteries. All is well but just slow going.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

More pics from today.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Some more. For now the control board is plywood but later it will be the Hypact UH pictured in a previous post.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Some more. For now the control board is plywood but later it will be the Hypact UH pictured in a previous post.


.... jumping in late, what is hypact UH ?

I am planning on 1/8" Al for 'hot' components and then left-over 1/4" polypro or maybe some clear polycarbonate or something for component box.

,,,and why NOT put the pot box enclosed?

d


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

That's really coming along great, JS. Looks like the battery box makes a fine new rear deck.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Here's some info on Hypact UH. http://www.kingplastic.com/Pdf/PhysPropUHMW-PE.pdf

http://www.mcmaster.com/

The contactor I work for was able to get it through McMaster-Carr. It's a polyethylene board. I see it used in a lot of conveyor work in food process production rooms. It reminds me of my cutting board I have in my kitchen.

Says this on their website.

Performance CharacteristicHigh Impact Strength
Greater ability to withstand forceful sudden impact (similar to hammer strike). Generally withstands 5 foot-pounds of energy per inch of thickness under normal conditions.
Electrical Insulator
Effectively resists flow of electricity. Commonly used in housing or mounting of electrical components. Generally resists at least 500 volts per .001 in. of thickness.
Static Dissipative
Often protects against static electricity. Allows moderate level of electrons to flow across surface or through mass. Generally has surface resistivity of 106-108 ohms per square inch.
Weather Resistant
Can be used indoors and outdoors. Generally withstands exposure to ultraviolet light, humidity, temperature, rain, snow, wind, and other elements.
Wash-Down Applications
Designed to be washed down regularly. Compliant with one or more of FDA, USDA, NSF, or 3A standards.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Here's some info on Hypact UH. http://www.kingplastic.com/Pdf/PhysPropUHMW-PE.pdf



aha.
Interesting stuff....

I will be ordering some polypro for battery boxes because of acid resistance, and may just use that for component box, or MIGHT get some clear lexan or some such just to have a cool looking display of electric bits....

The 'hot' components I will be mounting on aluminum for heat sinks, and maybe putting some non-conductive sheet under the lug areas to prevent accidental arcing and problems....

d


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well we got some more done this weekend but I forgot to take my camera. We installed air bags, worked on our hinged control board, and mounted our vacuum reservoir. We have to fit a windshield washer reservoir in somewhere. And the old one is too awkward to retrofit. We're looking for something with a simple shape, maybe a long and narrow shape. Any ideas?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

hey.. how's the progress coming along?? You should be able to meet your 8k goal.. That's going to be about exactly what I have into mine (car not included) when I'm done. Hopefully! Don't forget to update your conversion thread!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Worked more yesterday and today on the car. We're definitely getting close. I need to take some better pics. Alot of my pics are darker than I thought.

Oh and we're not using plywood for our board. We're just using it to work out the bugs until we use the real thing, our polyethylene board.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Some more. Threw some extra ones in there too! My brother built this bike for under $100. He had all the junk layin' around in his barn. He built the frame and fabbed everything from what he had around. Pretty wild and a cheap ride!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

More progress.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Looking good...


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Oh and an update also. The polyethylene board I bought is not strong enough to mount all the components on and have it hinge the way we'd like it to. So we went with MDO board. It turned out nice and will definitely handle the weight.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Found out yesterday that our batteries (Interstate U2400s) are on back order. We were hoping they'd show up anyday now but we'll have to wait until the second week in December. 

There are so many little things that we still need to tidy up. I never thought about all the little things. But we're gonna chip away until this car is hummin' down the road. 

More pictures coming this weekend. We should have all the components mounted on the hinged control board. 

We've talked about putting Lexan with standoffs over some of the board for added protection. We'll be taking this car to schools for "show and tell" when it's finished. 

We're looking at some heating options also. Chamilun's thread has caught my interest because of the simplicity. Simple for a plumber (my dad), a pipefitter (me), and a diesel mechanic (my bro). We'll most likely end up with his setup almost exactly. Thanks Chamilun!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

My Interstate batteries took about three weeks to come in also, but only because I wanted them with the standard auto posts.. 

Your conversion looks nice... I wonder if we'll both end up with a nice enough range to meet half way when we're done! You're in Ft. Wayne right? Too bad we're not closer to follow each other's builds in person.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Yeah Pat (sorry for the delayed response, but I rarely get back to my own thread), I'd like to meet half way if possible!  I could leave exit 95 in Fort Wayne but might only make it to exit 55-60 before I have to recharge. You'd have to pick up the other 55-60 miles! But seriously we'd love to make the trip to Indy and visit sometime. Possibly even trailer down our Eagle Summit. I need a name for this thing! The personalized plate will say ENVY if it's still available. 

We're hoping for some great range with our Interstate U2400's but we'll just have to wait and see. They were being built last week and are to be delivered very soon.

Our project has been very slow but it is beginning to really take shape. Our heater is installed but not wired yet. We have gauges and rocker switches to mount. We have a seat belt issue, they are the overly complicated automatic ones. But I'm sure we'll get that straightened out. We just have odds and ends to take care of. 

I have videos from today, and I'd like to throw my link in here to my You Tube site. I'll also try to put it on my signature at the bottom. I think these videos really work much better than the blurry pics I've been taking. 

Hopefully next week we'll be wiring batteries!

http://www.youtube.com/user/MidwestAlternatives


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

2 pics also. 

We're leaving everything laid out on the board but later we will be covering it will Lexan on stand offs. As Pat has planned to do, we also plan to use this EV as an educational experience for kids of all ages. This layout seemed to be very simple and very easy to follow/understand for someone not familiar with EV's.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I ended up closing most of my electronics in an electrical box with the controller bolted to the lid (heatsink side up). That way I didn't need the moveable board over the front batteries. the only thing I need to move now is the vacuum pump (which is very easy and only covers up one batt)


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

A beautiful conversion and similar in size to my own large hatchback. Congratulations on a clean and easy-on-the-eye control board layout.

Now that most of your costs are out of the way...how about sending a few dollars to us poor converters saving up for their motors/controllers? Donations can be made directly via paypal on my blog 

No, seriously, your end result is what has been in my mind for almost a year. Well done indeed!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Thank you Jlsawell! We're really trying to pay attention to detail. I called about a full vinyl body wrap today and wow!, I need some donations! Those are sharp, expensive but sharp!

Hey, gas is cheap(er) right now but we all know that won't last. If you act like gas is still $4.50 a gallon and save the rest you'll have the controller and motor in no time! 

Thanks again for the compliments Jlsawell, means a lot to us.


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

Yeah, cheap oil sure won't last. OPEC is meeting today to decide HOW MUCH to reduce production by.

They've left the price low enough to bankrupt all the little producers that sprang up when oil was $100 per barrel. Now that they've cleared the playing field a little they can put it back up to around $70-$80 per barrel.

Maybe the prince of Saudi Arabia will be able to repay the losses that his little cash machine Citibank has incurred recently?


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## oddpowers (Dec 9, 2008)

JS,
Just found your thread. very nice conversion!!
Have you got your batteries yet? I dont know where you are in Indiana, but I operate a Golf cart repair shop here in Anderson and get pretty good pricing on batteries threw Worldwide Batery. If you still need them I will find what my cost is and you can have them for my cost.

Anyway Great Build!!

Troy


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Troy, I appreciate the offer! We've recently become a Interstate battery dealer so we've splurged on some U2400's at dealer cost. Trojans would have been nice but there is local support here (Fort Wayne) for Interstate. I've heard mixed things about Interstate but for the price, we'll give them a whirl. 

Troy, now I've figured out how to meet Pat half way to Indy.  You could be our charging station so that we both could get back home! But then again, it's about 75 miles for me and maybe only 35 for Pat.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Hey Troy, I appreciate the offer! We've recently become a Interstate battery dealer so we've splurged on some U2400's at dealer cost. Trojans would have been nice but there is local support here (Fort Wayne) for Interstate. I've heard mixed things about Interstate but for the price, we'll give them a whirl.
> 
> Troy, now I've figured out how to meet Pat half way to Indy.  You could be our charging station so that we both could get back home! But then again, it's about 75 miles for me and maybe only 35 for Pat.


*cough* uh.. in winter I don't see it happening! My furthest trip thus far has been 18 miles. I wouldn't even make it to Anderson. Guess the 8v compromise was more of a trade off than I anticipated... But I've only been driving it for a couple of weeks now, so I'm not sure the capacity has been fully built up yet. I'm guessing that 20 miles is going to be my winter max.


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## oddpowers (Dec 9, 2008)

> We've recently become a Interstate battery dealer so we've splurged on some U2400's at dealer cost. Trojans would have been nice but there is local support here (Fort Wayne) for Interstate. I've heard mixed things about Interstate but for the price, we'll give them a whirl.


I dont think you will be unhappy with Interstates. They are made by US Battery, and in my opinion they are just as good mayby better than trojans. I have been in the golf cart business for 5+ years and never had that first problem with US batteries, but I have returned about 5 new trojans due to defect.



> You could be our charging station so that we both could get back home!


I would be honored to be the charge stations for your fine EV's. (then I could snoop and steal your ideas)JJK


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

> I have been in the golf cart business for 5+ years and never had that first problem with US batteries


thats interesting. when I purchased my Trojans (after unfortunately at the time not being able to find a local us battery dealer), there were a bunch of used US Batteries there. I asked why they had them, and they said that many people came and traded out their US Batteries because they had lasted significantly less time than the Trojans.


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## oddpowers (Dec 9, 2008)

Trojans have been around since 1925 more people know there name. If the battery dont have the Trojan name, people automaticaly veiw them as inferior. 
It makes me wonder if this bunch of US batteries you saw were simply at the end of there life, and there was a pile of Trojans around the corner.
And of course there is the fact I would rather sell a trojan, because I make more money on them. (though I still tell people I like US better.)
OR mayby this is just a matter of opinion and they are both very good batteries.

Either way I have had very good luck out of the US batteries.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

oddpowers said:


> Trojans have been around since 1925 more people know there name. If the battery dont have the Trojan name, people automaticaly veiw them as inferior.
> It makes me wonder if this bunch of US batteries you saw were simply at the end of there life, and there was a pile of Trojans around the corner.
> And of course there is the fact I would rather sell a trojan, because I make more money on them. (though I still tell people I like US better.)
> OR mayby this is just a matter of opinion and they are both very good batteries.
> ...


I, for one, am very glad to hear this as I just spent $1600 on 15 8v Interstate... 

Hey JS... how much would that have cost you for your dealer cost? They're the lesser capacity 8v's... I didn't think the higher ones had enough extra capacity to justify the cost/weight difference.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Pat, the price for the 8 volts is not available on my price sheet. Only the U2200's are listed. My U2400's weren't listed, I had to call for a price. I do know this, I can get the U2200's for under $90.00 a piece (provided I'm buying 20). But I don't know if you priced the U2200's before your 8 volts. If you did, maybe that could give you an idea of any mark up. 

Of course I'd like to help everyone out, but there's gotta be a mark up to make a little profit!  But honestly, I'd love to help any EVer that I could get a great price on batteries since they're such a big part ($) of the conversion.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well, got a great surprise today!  20-U2400 Interstate Workaholics were delivered today. 

I had to set them in place but didn't have my camera to take pictures. They look beautiful! I had one of those "smell the roses" type moments where I realized just how cool it really was to be setting batteries in an electric car. I think I'll feel that again soon when I have that big EV grin that you all talk about!

We were a little concerned about our suspension. But now that we've set the batteries in our minds are at ease. The air bags we used in the rear are working just as they claimed they would. We only lost a touch over 1 inch in the rear and only about a half inch in the front. It looks great to me. It sets slightly lower but there's still plenty of travel. It just looks as though we're taking the offensive line out to Ponderosa after the big game. 

My guess is that we are only 2 weeks out from the maiden voyage. We could hurry and probably get it on the road this weekend but we've come this far, we may as well take our time and do things right. Next time I report back I'll have more pictures and updates!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

that is very cool! You should get much more range out of those than I am getting from the 8v's.. I believe those are in the 240ah range? Mine are maybe 170?.. lol.. I've forgotten already. Anyway, I can't wait to see what kind of range you get.

I still need to do something about my rear suspension - someone suggested raising the spring seat a couple of inches, so I might find a shop that can do that. Haven't spent too much time researching this as I'm not bottoming out, but I still would like it to look a little lighter in the rear.. looks like a toddler carrying a load!

..and post pics!


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

PatricioIN,
have you considered auxiliary springs? they have them at autozone Part Number: 12-1500 made by superior automotive, about $30. i think they are rated at 3/4 ton.

I used these, they restored ride height to original. I am a bit concerned they could somehow move, but am yet to see much play at all.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

chamilun said:


> PatricioIN,
> have you considered auxiliary springs? they have them at autozone Part Number: 12-1500 made by superior automotive, about $30. i think they are rated at 3/4 ton.
> 
> I used these, they restored ride height to original. I am a bit concerned they could somehow move, but am yet to see much play at all.


I did the same thing in my Sunfire. A set of variable rate springs from Autozone returned the ride in the rear to the original height. Auto-Zone even loaned me the tool to install the springs.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rf... do you have coil over shocks in the back or are your springs seperate from them?


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> rf... do you have coil over shocks in the back or are your springs seperate from them?


Mine is a modified McPherson strut. The spring surrounds the 'shock-unit' similar to a coil-over. I used an outside spring compressor, rented from Auto Zone.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Just a little update. We didnt get too far on the progress. We're very excited and anxious to get a quote on our vinyl body wrap. The place doing the wrap will design several schemes on their computer and hopefully come up with something that jumps out at people and attracts attention to our EV without being overly annoying. Something classy? Lightning bolts? I'm not sure, we'll find out soon.

Also, I bought a few more memory cards for my digital camera so that i can make more videos and show them on YouTube. Videos are an excellent way to show detail. Too bad I don't have a HD video camera. 

We used Great Stuff foam to seal cracks and gaps around our rear battery rear box off. Seemed to work great! 

We have new automotive carpet and plan to re-do the entire ride. I'll do the best I can but I know it wont be a "professional" job. 

Our toggle switches for the heater and heater pump are now mounted.

The 10 GA. charger wire has been run underneath the vehicle. I used 1/2'' clear plastic tubing as conduit. We plan to use 1" clear plastic tubing for our heavy cable for conduit. Everything secured with plenty of strapping and luckily there are several places underneath with threaded taps. Being a big RC hobbyist (truggies, buggies, and MT's), I'm a FIRM believer in Loctite. So almost every threaded bolt we've used thus far is blue Loctited. 

And again, I'll report back soon and hopefully with pictures and video!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

We're soooo close to having this thing on the road!  A couple good days (this weekend) and we'll have the wheels rollin'. Got a list of about a dozen things that need done yet. 

I threw another video on YouTube. I promise I'll try to hone my film making skills!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

keep up the good work... seems like an awful lot of people working on conversions right now!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

btw... LOVE cake! one of my favorite bands


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Yeah big fan here too. Now if I could just replace "guitar man" with "EV man" that would make a lot of sense! Don't you think?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

someone in my neighborhood has a white version of your car/van.. when I drive past it, I wonder how you're coming along! So, uh... how are you coming along??


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Good, except for a little problem. We would have taken our maiden voyage Sunday but we aren't getting power to the motor. There's no voltage across B+ and M-. According to the manual that means the controller is defective. I'm hoping it's just something with the potbox that we're missing. After work today I'm going to check it out some more.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well, we found out that we blew the KLK fuse so there's obviously something that got crossed.  We think it may be the voltmeter that didn't get wired correctly. I gotta new fuse so tomorrow morning we're gonna find out.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well it's been 4 hours since the maiden voyage and I'm still grinnin' from ear to ear! Awesome! 

The acceleration didn't impress me but I honestly wasn't disappointed either. It was very smooth. I noticed the power picked up around 25 mph, I could feel it coming on much more at that point. We put 12 miles on it. The batteries weren't fully charged. We had 126 volts at the start, and dropped the voltage to 122 after the 12 miles. 

We still have a problem. And I have questions. I hate to double post but I think I'm gonna for this. I'm gonna make a thread in the "technical discussion" but I'll also mention it here. 

1. We are still blowing our KLK 20 amp fuse. But after blowing a couple we began to try to isolate the problem and narrowed it down to the DC/DC converter. If we take the DC/DC converter clear out of the picture, we are good to go. Soon as the DC/DC converter is hooked up we're back to blowing fuses. The fuse blows when the ignition switch is turned on / when the primary contactor closes. We've checked wiring over and over and everything matches our schematics. Any ideas?

2. We tried to charge the pack with the Zivan charger and tripped a 15 amp breaker in the box after about a minute. Does the Zivan need a 20 amp or 30 amp breaker? 
Also, the Zivan is noisier than I imagined it would be. There is a noisy arcing type sound I would guess has something to do with the fact that it's a high freq charger. Is this noise anything to be concerned with?

Again, please forgive me for double posting but I'd like to reach as many of you as I can so that possibly tomorrow we can have a solution to these issues. 

Thanks in advance!!!


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Can you post a pic of your control board wiring? I couldn't pick up much on your YouTube videos.

Do you have a relay in front of the DC/DC converter?


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> ... The fuse blows when the ignition switch is turned on / when the primary contactor closes... Any ideas?


Hmmm... on my two contactor system, the KLK is hooked to the secondary contactor.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)




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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Everything looks the same with ours, and I appreciate your pictures. I'm gonna continue to look at them and see if there's something I'm missing. Unfortunately the EV is 25 miles away in the shop. So in the morning I'll gather up all the information I can and see what we can come up with.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Oh, and by the way, there is a very short video up on YouTube of the maiden voyage!


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

I added a word sketch of how the KLK circuit is wired from the EVA design I think you are using to the post with the other photos I previously posted.

Once you get your KLK thing straightened out, I can edit the posts I made and remove the photos so it don't screw up your conversion thread too much.

I'll probably say things like "Cool Video" and bitch at you for not using your seat belt. 

Hopefully the photos and sketch will help.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Thanks Tj4fa! I printed your pictures out so we can cross reference them with ours this morning. You can leave those pictures up, I dont see that as a problem. It will only add to the information on this thread and I may want to refer back to it someday? Thanks again! I hope we can figure out what we did wrong. 

Oh and I wish I knew that Zivan chargers are noisy and it not just mine.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Thanks Tj4fa! Oh and I wish I knew that Zivan chargers are noisy and it not just mine.


You're welcome JSRacer dude. 

Sorry. I can't help out on the Zivan...don't have one of those (wish I had one though).


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Today was a good day although we still haven't figured out the DC/DC converter. This week we'll retrace every wire and find the problem.

I took the Summit for a 14 mile drive today. Very smooth. I'm really thinking we'll get 30-40 miles range easily. 

Which leads me to a question. We don't have a fuel gauge to judge our DOD. Is it fair to say, as a rule of thumb, that when each battery is down 1.75 volts under load it's time to pull it in for a charge? And doesn't this vary on how big the load is? There seems to be a small fluctuation depending how much I'm on the acceleration. Maybe you guys can set us straight on this. We're running a 120V system.

I need to look back at Patrick's thread on tweaking the controller. The acceleration is fine but if we can get more out of it I'd like to. The speed is decent. I didn't push it though, so I'm not sure how fast it can actually go. I was in 2nd gear running 50 mph and pulling around 175 amps if I'm remembering correctly. And in 3rd gear I was running 60 mph pulling near 300 amps. I am very impressed with the acceleration from 25 mph on up. It makes it feel very much like a ICE vehicle. 

This car has been setting for nearly 8 months and the brakes need loosened up. So we have brake drag to work out. The front brakes need some TLC. We also need the front end aligned. There is still a lot to do.

The Zivan charger was tripping a 15 amp breaker and I found somewhere on the internet that it pulls around 14 amps so this would be enough to trip a 15 amp breaker. Today we ran a dedicated 20 amp circuit just for charging at my dad's house. I already put in a 30 amp dedicated circuit in my garage.

We are very happy so far but we still need to:

1. Organize our wires 
2. Add carpet padding around the battery boxes for sound proofing 
3. Re-carpet the entire vehicle
4. Get the seat belts working
5. Have the vehicle wrapped in vinyl
6. Tie batteries down somewhat permanently
7. Cover our control board and 12V juction board with the 3/32'' Lexan we bought to protect those wandering little hands!
8. Put tops on rear boxes to seal them
9. And everything else I can't think of right now! 

Here's some newer pics!


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Here's a guy with the same type of batteries you use (U2400s) and looks like quite a history of Zivan NG3 problems...

http://www.evalbum.com/1534

The way I see the battery information on this website, your batteries are right up there with T-145s.

http://www.genesisny.net/GGolf/Batteryspecs.html

If you don't mind telling, about how much were they apiece?


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Here's a guy with the same type of batteries you use (U2400s) and looks like quite a history of Zivan NG3 problems...
> 
> http://www.evalbum.com/1534
> 
> ...


Well, we were fortunate enough to get the batteries at dealers cost. $111 a piece for U2400's. This of course isn't what we could sell them for!  We'd lose our you know what!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Hey, I like that heavy duty nylon ty wrapping you're using on the front batts! Over 700 miles driven thus far and my batts haven't budged a bit! You could use threaded rod through the bottom of your rear batt boxes with some cross bars as reinforcement underneath and some little "tabs" to go under the batt carry strap thingies on top of the batts for all the back ones.. I'll post a pic - my rear batts are very secure as well.

Overall, it looks great - glad to see you're finally on the road. I take it this will just be a two seater with LOTS of storage space?? or are you planning on fashioning some sor of rear bench seat?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

here's a link to the Curtis manuals in .pdf format, btw.. I forget what page, but it tells you about the three little screw covers on the controller and how to adjust them...

http://curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cDatasheets.dspListDS&CatID=1&siteID=1

sorry: one other thing.. I would absolutely recommend a fuel gauge. Combined with the voltmeter, it is a great thing to glance at and get a good idea of how much energy you have left.. it isn't EXACT, but then neither are the voltmeters they way they move around with/without a load. I find my Curtis fuel gauge to be pretty darned accurate in telling me how much I've used and how much I have left.. 

And I have been using 115volts as my "empty" point.. I try not to get down to that, but I know that as long as I'm over 115, I'm not in danger of running out... 115volts seems to be right where my pack starts to severly slow down (and I don't like to let it do that!)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> The acceleration is fine but if we can get more out of it I'd like to. The speed is decent. I didn't push it though, so I'm not sure how fast it can actually go. I was in 2nd gear running 50 mph and pulling around 175 amps if I'm remembering correctly. And in 3rd gear I was running 60 mph pulling near 300 amps. I am very impressed with the acceleration from 25 mph on up. It makes it feel very much like a ICE vehicle.
> 
> This car has been setting for nearly 8 months and the brakes need loosened up. So we have brake drag to work out. The front brakes need some TLC. We also need the front end aligned. There is still a lot to do.


Your brakes should grind off that surface rust in a few miles of driving.
I also got mine aligned last week, much better IMO.

I'd love to come up and drive yours sometime... I'd like to see how the performance of yours compares to mine as we have the same motor and controller. I still feel my acceleration isn't quite as good as I expected it to be and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the type of batts I have - 8v's instead of your 6v's. I find the acceleration over 20mph to be less than I had hoped. It will go.. just thought it'd be a bit quicker. Oh, I've had mine up to 70mph btw!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Pat, how much is that fuel gauge? I know that don't give them away! We'd like to have a fuel gauge so maybe I'll check into it alittle more.

The nylon zip ties idea came from you.  They're rated at 175 lbs a piece and we're gonna go with them. What you see in the pics is all temporary. We'll be working on battery tie downs this week. Our rear boxes will have covers on them. We hope to secure the covers for added safety in case of a roll over. 

It will be just a 2 seater. We plan to show the car whenever we're given the chance. The storage space in the back will be great for a card table and chairs and any literature we can put together to share with future EV'ers.

I've mentioned your build to my dad quite a bit and he'd be tickled to death to have someone come up from Indy and visit. There's really no one else here in Fort Wayne that we know of doing a conversion. It would be nice to share ideas and just BS about EV's. Hell, we'd love to see your Ohmer in person! 

So far we are very happy but like I've said there's still a bunch more to do!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

"CURTIS INSTRUMENTS #900RB-120-BN...Battery "Fuel Gauge"...for 120 V lead-acid pack...LED bar graph reads "empty" to "full"...2.00" round...1 lb"


$225 from KTA services.. not cheap, but useful and very easy to wire. Plus, you can probably find a way to mount where your original fuel gauge was like I did (but it's not backlit, so can be hard to see "which" green, yellow, red you're on at night). Though you don't really want to get to the red!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> Your brakes should grind off that surface rust in a few miles of driving.
> I also got mine aligned last week, much better IMO.
> 
> I'd love to come up and drive yours sometime... I'd like to see how the performance of yours compares to mine as we have the same motor and controller. I still feel my acceleration isn't quite as good as I expected it to be and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the type of batts I have - 8v's instead of your 6v's. I find the acceleration over 20mph to be less than I had hoped. It will go.. just thought it'd be a bit quicker. Oh, I've had mine up to 70mph btw!


Pat, did you turn up both the current and acceleration adjustments? We haven't touched them yet but I think we will. Is there any harm that can be done in maxing these 2 out? Since we both have the same setups, what exactly did you do with the adjustments?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I turned up the current limit to the maximum; can't think of any reason it would let you do something that would harm it.. it definately made it a bit quicker. I have not turned up acceleration yet, though I intend to try that (my controller is upside down, so it's a bit more work to get to it). Don't know what effect it will have; I think it just allows the current to ramp up faster (though I think the default is like one second? so not sure it will be much different). If you turn up your acceleraton rate (whatever it's called), let me know how it affects performance. Turning up the current will give you a slight bit more umph.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

fyi.. after working on some other stuff for the EV today, I went ahead and turned the acceleration rate up to the max.. Don't really notice much difference there, but didn't really expect to. I think it will just allow the motor to spin up faster when changing gears.. Anyway, who are you talking to about your body wrap?? I've talked to a local fast signs, but their offering is extremely amatuerish! We've done a couple simple ones ourselves, but wanted to see what true professional could do. Oh, mine wouldn't be a wrap, just a bit down the side of the car.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

These guys http://www.creativesignresources.com/index.html

They give free estimates and I've seen some of their work and they do a great job.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Well we took two steps back because of 6 bolts in the coupler that backed out. Luckily all 6 backed out together instead of half of them backing out and shearing the rest. No one to blame but ourselves on that. This time we used red loctite on the bolts. Nice thing about these EV's is that it only took 15-20 mins to get the motor out and it was back in within the hour. 

While we had some batteries out of the front we decided it was a good time to reroute some wiring. It was a jungle.

The KLK fuse / DC/DC converter is still not figured out. As long as we leave the DC/DC converter out of the picture, we eliminate blowing fuses. We checked wiring countless times and we find nothing wrong. We've decided to buy another fuse holder and completely isolate the DC/DC converter. Doing this, we may be able to pinpoint the problem.

Today we started the rear battery box tops. It is built out of 1/4'' plywood and 1"x3"s so it is pretty light. There are cleats on the bottom to hold the top in place securely. We will incorporate tie downs eventually. The exposed wood will be painted black and the rest will be carpeted.

There will be plenty of room for groceries back there!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

that could make a nice little intown work van or delivery truck actually!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

tj4fa said:


>


Tj4fa, I think the problem is solved. We have to wire it up this weekend. We got our kit from EVAmerica and we assumed we had everything we needed to complete the wiring. Well after looking over your pics and cross referencing we figured out that we we're trying to use 1 12V relay to run both our controller and dc/dc converter!  I see you use 2 separate relays. The instructions by EVAmerica are a little vague about this. And this being our first conversion we were oblivious. So we added another relay and also another 20 amp fuse holder. Although the separate fuse holder is probably not necessary we will have the dc/dc converter completely isolated. Are we on the right page now?


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Tj4fa, I think the problem is solved. We have to wire it up this weekend. We got our kit from EVAmerica and we assumed we had everything we needed to complete the wiring. Well after looking over your pics and cross referencing we figured out that we we're trying to use 1 12V relay to run both our controller and dc/dc converter!  I see you use 2 separate relays. The instructions by EVAmerica are a little vague about this. And this being our first conversion we were oblivious. So we added another relay and also another 20 amp fuse holder. Although the separate fuse holder is probably not necessary we will have the dc/dc converter completely isolated. Are we on the right page now?


The second relay should have come with your DC/DC converter. And yes the instructions were vague from EVA.

I had to call Bob to figure out which wires to connect to the DC/DC and relay.

I'm using a 40A fuse and 10 awg wires on the 12V side of the DC/DC converter back to the battery through the Anderson Disconnect. That's what the EVA schematics were showing anyway.

I guess 20A fuse would be ok but I'd recommend using the 10AWG wire just in case the 20A fuse doesn't cut it.

Hopefully, the second relay will put your DC/DC converter back on line.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

This weekend we got a bunch done! (for us anyway!) 

The batteries are tied down finally. We drilled through the bottom of our battery boxes and dropped 5/16'' eye bolts down through and secured them with fender washers and nylock nuts. Then we used heavy 175 lb cable zip ties to loop through the eye bolts and around the batteries. There are 2 loops per 2 batteries with the exception of a group of 3. All the batteries are sitting on 3/4'' foam board and have 3/4'' foam board in between to separate from any vibration.

The only little rust spot was fixed. 

We finished the rear battery box cover. 

The belly pan was finished weeks ago but I took some pictures of it today. 

We also took a 21 mile trip today without a problem. The pack dropped 6 volts. Does this sound about right? I really don't see 40 miles to be a problem. And another question for you guys... We haven't experienced any drop off in power yet, but I'm wondering if the drop off is sudden and drastic or is it noticeably gradual?

Here's some new pics!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

both.. I've noticed a SHORT period of gradual loss, then a very sudden drop. Bottom line is if you start to notice some drop off, you better be within a mile or so of home! But then, given my motor problems, my example might not be the best.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> This weekend we got a bunch done! (for us anyway!)
> 
> The batteries are tied down finally. We drilled through the bottom of our battery boxes and dropped 5/16'' eye bolts down through and secured them with fender washers and nylock nuts. Then we used heavy 175 lb cable zip ties to loop through the eye bolts and around the batteries. There are 2 loops per 2 batteries with the exception of a group of 3.


I've also switched to nylon cable ties for holding down my batteries. I use 2 of the 175-lb ties per battery. My ties go lengthwise around the battery.
I've been using them for the past 200-miles without any problems.

I found a source for 60-inch long 250-lb ties, so I ordered a sample to try them out.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Dropping 6V for a 120V system seems it might be quite a lot on your first times out.

I have a chart that I refer to for the 144V system and maybe someone has one for a 120V system so you can avoid discharging the batteries too low and possibly warping the lead plates in them. I try never to go below 50% DOD.

Electric Vehicles of America recommends you break in your FLA batteries gradually to avoid damaging them.

They say go a few miles the first day, then recharge and a few more miles the next time out and so on... 

They say it takes about the first 30 cycles to fully break them in.

Below is a chart for a 144V system and I use a cheap LED voltmeter display unit ($10- off eBay) as opposed to an analog gauge to check the voltage with the motor resting after about 30 seconds or so to see the approximate level of disharge in the battery pack.

You could probably make your own chart for a 120V system. Bear in mind the FLA batteries will drop off rather quick after a point and drop is not a steady rate of decline (discharge).

Ignore the 170 Volt reading shown on the LED in the photo below. I took the voltage reading while charging.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Finally got around to wiring the DC/DC converter. The green light is on but I'm not completely sure that it is working. We've been charging the 12V battery for over 100 miles now and are a little shy to let it run down to see if the DC/DC converter holds it steady. Stupid question for ya, but is there a simple way to tell if it's charging the 12V battery? Also, does the Astrodyne converter come with factory settings of a certain voltage? Like 12V's? And if so, whats a good voltage to keep the battery at, 13.5V? 

Another thing, with our 120V pack we're consistantly charging to around 135 volts at full charge using the Zivan. What is everyone else who has 120V system seeing at full charge?


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Finally got around to wiring the DC/DC converter. The green light is on but I'm not completely sure that it is working. We've been charging the 12V battery for over 100 miles now and are a little shy to let it run down to see if the DC/DC converter holds it steady. Stupid question for ya, but is there a simple way to tell if it's charging the 12V battery? Also, does the Astrodyne converter come with factory settings of a certain voltage? Like 12V's? And if so, whats a good voltage to keep the battery at, 13.5V?
> 
> Another thing, with our 120V pack we're consistantly charging to around 135 volts at full charge using the Zivan. What is everyone else who has 120V system seeing at full charge?


On my EV, the Astrodyne Model SP-480P-12 DC/DC converter has an adjustment switch that you can adjust the DC output with a small screwdriver for the 12V system. The sheet that came with the converter from Electric Vehicles of America (EVA) said to adjust the output at 13.0 - 13.5 V max.

When the green light is lit on the DC/DC converter it is getting high voltage from the battery pack and the converter should be charging the accessory battery at that time as well as providing power to the 12V system and accessories on your EV.

Once you have high voltage (battery pack power) on the DC/DC converter, you can adjust the adjustment switch and at the same time measure the output with a voltmeter at the terminal pins of the DC/DC converter where the battery 12V+ and 12V- are connected.

The terminal pins for my Astrodyne DC/DC converter are (+12VDC terminal pin 9) and (-12VDC terminal pins 3 and 4 - they are jumpered together).

Once you get 13.5VDC output you should be good.

I have a 144V system and a QuickCharge charger so I can't help you with the other info.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

my 120 volt system generally goes to about 132 volts when fully charged. Some of this is surface charge and disappears pretty quickly when you start driving.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> On my EV, the Astrodyne Model SP-480P-12 DC/DC converter has an adjustment switch that you can adjust the DC output with a small screwdriver for the 12V system. The sheet that came with the converter from Electric Vehicles of America (EVA) said to adjust the output at 13.0 - 13.5 V max.
> 
> When the green light is lit on the DC/DC converter it is getting high voltage from the battery pack and the converter should be charging the accessory battery at that time as well as providing power to the 12V system and accessories on your EV.
> 
> ...


 
Man we still don't have this thing working right. The green light means that there is backfeed from the 12V battery. The problem we're having is still the same. We're blowing the 20 amp buss fuse. I wonder if the Astrodyne converter is faulty and could be causing this? Unlikely I know. It's probably our wiring so I guess we're gonna go back to the drawing board and see if we can figure anything out. I'll try to get pics of this soon.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Man we still don't have this thing working right. The green light means that there is backfeed from the 12V battery. The problem we're having is still the same. We're blowing the 20 amp buss fuse. I wonder if the Astrodyne converter is faulty and could be causing this? Unlikely I know. It's probably our wiring so I guess we're gonna go back to the drawing board and see if we can figure anything out. I'll try to get pics of this soon.


Pics would be good. 

By blowing the 20AMP buss fuse, you're still talking the KLK fuse...right? 

Plz show where you're hooked up to your primary and secondary contactors as well.

Here's where you might have your wiring wrong:

By looking at the markings on the masking tape for your DC/DC converter on your original photo of your control board layout shown below, you appear to had you wires planned to go to the wrong terminals and crossed at pins 1 and 2 coming off the primary and secondary contactors. 

You'll see this if you _carefully_ compare your markings for your connections against the wiring instructions for terminals 1 and 2 shown in the second photo below.

Terminal 2 should be going to the Primary contactor on the switched side not to the Secondary contactor.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Tj4fa, FINALLY got this DC/DC converter figured out. We took the diode out and it works great. It comes with a diode between pin 1 and 2 and it says that anything over 152V requires the diode. So we took it out. And now everything works perfectly.  Glad to finally have this stressful little problem outta my hair.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Tj4fa, FINALLY got this DC/DC converter figured out. We took the diode out and it works great. It comes with a diode between pin 1 and 2 and it says that anything over 152V requires the diode. So we took it out. And now everything works perfectly.  Glad to finally have this stressful little problem outta my hair.


Well halle..freaking...luja!!









But to be honest, I think it stressed me out more than you.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Well halle..freaking...luja!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hey man, it's guys like you that make these forums great! I appreciate your help.  I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever find out what was causing this. Damn diode! I'll have to look back now and see if anyone made this suggestion and I overlooked it. 

PS--250 miles on her now!


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Hey man, it's guys like you that make these forums great! I appreciate your help.  I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever find out what was causing this. Damn diode! I'll have to look back now and see if anyone made this suggestion and I overlooked it.
> 
> PS--250 miles on her now!


Sweet...now peddle to the metal baby!!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Gotta question for anyone who visits this thread. We've noticed that we have a leaky cell on one of our batteries. We have a turkey baster and distilled water but I'm wondering how common is this problem? 

On our Interstate batteries we have a quick seal top that will remove with a turn of the wrist and expose all 3 cells. One of these cells is leaking. Now I'd imagine that I need to order a new seal or a whole new topper for this particular battery. But I wanted to check with you guys to get your thoughts?


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Gotta question for anyone who visits this thread. We've noticed that we have a leaky cell on one of our batteries. We have a turkey baster and distilled water but I'm wondering how common is this problem?
> 
> On our Interstate batteries we have a quick seal top that will remove with a turn of the wrist and expose all 3 cells. One of these cells is leaking. Now I'd imagine that I need to order a new seal or a whole new topper for this particular battery. But I wanted to check with you guys to get your thoughts?


I'd take the bad cap array back to where you bought the batteries from and them to swap it out either from a battery that has been returned for its core charge or one off a new battery.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I have not noticed any leaking on my 8v's with the same caps.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Is it just me or does performance begin to get better as the batteries break in? The Summit is at the 400 mile mark and is running smoother and better than ever. It's probably from the brakes and everything else wearing in? Or do batteries actually show this much increase in performance as they are broken in? We've actually noticed that amp draw has dropped slightly from what it used to be. Just an update with a couple questions!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

the batts absolutely need to be broken in a bit before they reach optimum. I noticed that with my EV. Plus, it's been warmer weather so that is helping you too.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Over 600 miles and going strong! Still waiting on wrap design. Can't wait for summer!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

900 miles and lovin' it! I have to get some pictures this week and post them on here. We had a partial vinyl wrap done and it looks crazy. I'm having the windows tinted Wednesday so Thursday I'll try to have some pics.

We had a show at a nursing home and the news station was suppose to show up but never did; thinking because rain was threatening. The old folks loved the EV! One very old lady said "oh yeah, we had those when I was a kid!" I was shocked to hear that and we all know that wasn't the Alzheimers talking! Funny to think we're trying to rewrite history again, hope this time it catches on.

Still left to do--Need heavier rear springs. Need front windshield replaced eventually. Need to finish a little bit of carpet in the back. Would love to have some one give the car a complete interior detail. 

I still need to tweak the controller. Not sure how Curtis controllers come factory set but we haven't touched it. 

I always use 1st gear off the start and take it to about 25mph and then shift into 2nd. Traffic pulls away slightly when I'm waiting for 1st and 2nd to sync and then I'm most always catching back up. I only go into 3rd around 55 mph to take me to 65 mph.

Quick question that has a little concern. Is there anything wrong with pulling into the gargage from a long drive and plugging in right away? And on the flip side, is there anything wrong with pulling the charger off a few hours into a charge and taking off for a short errand?

Also, I need to look at my EVA booklet again and feel a little stupid asking but isn't there some kind of protection against getting into the EV while charging and turning the key on? I remember reading about it but can't remember what it was exactlly.

I'll get back in a few days with pictures!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*Charger interlock relay*. It's a little relay that your ign "on" line goes into and then out to the contactor. Also, 120v pos and neg goes in from charger. Relay is normally closed so when it detects 120v from charger (which it only senses when plugged in) then it opens the circuit and won't let you energize the contactor. I have a GFI plug in trunk at the other end of my "gas filler" plug. My charger plugs into that plug.. I also took an outdoor extension cord and plugged in to the other plug.. ran the wires up to the charger interlock relay. You hear a faint click in my motor compartment when I plug my car in, and it won't let me drive away while plugged in.

Also... Wednesday May 20th is some community day at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and me and a couple of other local EVers are going to meet and drive our EV's around the track... You'd probably have to trailer to get down here.. but you're welcome if you can make it! PM me if interested and I'll get you details.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Some new pictures...


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

WOW.

That just about says it all. Beautiful job!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

man those graphics are great! Who did them and how much did it cost you?


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Creative Sign Resource here in Fort Wayne. It was $900. And thanks!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Making local news tonight! My dad was interviewed by News Channel 15 here in Fort Wayne. I'll give a link when it comes up on their website.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local_wane_fort_wayne_man_builds_electric_car_200906091602

Today the News 15 stopped by my dad's work and did a story on our EV. There should be video later. I think he may have exaggerated the time it takes to recharge.  Must have been talking about just a short trip. I'll see if I can find more later!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

That's great! It's great to get some publicity out for EV's!


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## Astronomer (Aug 7, 2008)

Excellent!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

The thing I love is that my dad is 68 years old and feels such a great accomplishment in this EV. I love that more than this entire EV project. Just seeing the smile on his face, the gleam in his eyes, and the pride that he's taken is worth more than anything. I'm so proud of him! It has brought us much closer and I believe this is only the beginning.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> The thing I love is that my dad is 68 years old and feels such a great accomplishment in this EV. I love that more than this entire EV project. Just seeing the smile on his face, the gleam in his eyes, and the pride that he's taken is worth more than anything. I'm so proud of him! It has brought us much closer and I believe this is only the beginning.


that's great.. now when some boob asks you how long it will take to pay off your investment you can honestly say "It's already paid off!"


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Been alittle while! We've been busy at a few car shows lately. Here's something interesting. ;-)

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20090714/LOCAL0201/307149990/1043/LOCAL07#


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

good article and picture!


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## bungajar (Jun 13, 2009)

I will be interested to see how you do with the Eagle.
I have a 95 I am thinking of converting. It was given to me because the owner was frustrated with some minor problems (bad ignition-leaking fuel sys.) I fixed and have run it for two years with no major problems. 
My son recently bought a nice rust free one the same year for $500 on ebay. He has a rusty one with a good engine. I have enjoyed driving it so far and look forward to converting it. If you have any tips drop a line to [email protected]


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