# [EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is a wikipedia page on this subject. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1772 

You might also want to talk to ClipperCreek. They have an adapter cord for J1772, but it looks like it only does 110 and not 240. 
http://www.clippercreek.com/ 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Davidson" <[email protected]> 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> 
Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2010 11:29:56 AM 
Subject: [EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help 

I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post 
I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So 
a (possibly dumb) question... 

Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot 
signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I 
am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am 
following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily 
discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772 
male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car 
and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE 
to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50 
plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will 
the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a 
50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could 
plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the 
breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What 
am I missing? 

Dave Davidson 
Glen Burnie, Maryland 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The car expects to see a +/- 12V 1kHz pilot signal with 1kOhm source
impedance before it starts charging. You are of course responsible for
the consequences of bypassing the protection mechanisms that the EVSE
provides.



> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
> > I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
> > a (possibly dumb) question...
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to learn, and was hoping to avoid the
$2100 - $3000 cost of the EVSE, whcih from what I had seen so far
looked like just a fancy coupler with a few whistles and bells thrown
in. I have been unable to see the actual standard. The area
libraries don't have copies of the SAE standards, and the closest
library with a copy seems to be over 1000 miles away. I figured it
wouldn't be as simple as I hoped, but had to ask.

Dave



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Dave, For educational purposes and not as a recommendation as many =
> "Law
> > Advisors have warned me." the charger in the vehicle is suposed to monitor
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This one sold for only $270.00 on ebay & I'll bet they will be about half of
that within a year.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260667699877&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi, Dave, The following link provides the most through explanation od a
"Charging Station" for j1772 level II a 1/2 page schematic in it was once
sent to me and I explained how that worked in a memo that is archived as
J1772 on the "EVDL" list.
<http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Power+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf>
http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Power+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf

I hope this helps, The charger in the "Leaf" is also supposed to require the
pilot signal levels to authorize it to draw power.
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
=========================================================


> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
> > I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dennis,

Thanks for the link. I was trying to see if I could somehow build a
bare bones EVSE. I don't live in California, so that California
credit doesn't help any. Also, the federal tax credit for a EVSE
currently expires at the end of 2010. I can't even order my Leaf
until December for delivery in April (and times may slip), so will not
be able to hit the timing unless the tax credits are extended. I
don't want to have to pay to have a EVSE installed at my house, then
have to uninstall it and put on a 14-50 plug so I can charge other
places. I don't need all the bells and whistles the current crop of
EVSE's have. All I want is a really simple EVSE where I can plug one
end into a 240 Volt receptacle and the other end into the Leaf to let
it charge. I was toying with building one myself, but would gladly
buy one if someone came out with one. The Tesla guys at the Power of
DC had a similar setup for their charging.

Dave



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dave, in the past, on this list, I have voiced this opinion, " Only those
> > NEW Manufactured EV owners , still in Warranty, need a J1772 cable and pl=
> ug
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"The Tesla guys at the Power of DC had a similar setup for their charging."
Dave, I was told that was not actually the J1772 interface in last years
Tesla.
Note that the negative alternation of the pilot signal is not applied to the
charger in the car. And all you need to do is convince the in car charger
that the pilot signal is correct. The sense circuit will be very sensitive
so it draws only a tiny current. Perhaps a 555 timer circuit running at 1Khz
and clip the output with a voltage divider or a diode clipper down to +3
peak and feed that to the charger to convince it that all is well so charge
the battery, meanwhile feed the two lines 240 VAC @ 30 AC Amps and the
common, from the RV circuit remembering to connect both ends of the cable,
before you switch on, and switch off before unplugging. *And use the money
you save for extra life insurance so if you aren't careful enough your
dependents will be supported for what would have been the remainder of your
life! *"There are Old electricians, and Bold electricians, but no
Old-Bold electricians"
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
===========================================


> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Dennis,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's not likely to work, if the car sees a 3V pilot when it expects
a 9V or 6V it should fault out and not turn on the charger.
Use an opamp set up as a 1kHz square wave oscillator, driven by a +- 12V su=
pply.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/square.html

Connect the pilot line to the output through a 1kOhm resistor. Yes
the charger shouldn't be able to see the -12V if they followed 1772 to
the letter but there's no guarantee they don't monitor the pilot
before the diode as well.

Add an up stream GFI for safety, don't skimp on this. Might make sense
to put the GFI inline in your cord so it's always with you.

And of course, you do this at your own risk. If you're not comfortable
wiring 240VAC circuits, you probably shouldn't attempt this.






> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "The Tesla guys at the Power of DC had a similar setup for their charging=
> ."
> > Dave, I was told that was not actually the J1772 interface in last years
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > I haven't seen a J-1772 charging station yet, but I believe there is no
> > neutral provided in the corded plug. Only two "hots" for 240 VAC and a
> > ground. So, no 120 VAC available. There may be a separate 20 amp wall
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The Eaton Crop is building the J1772 charging stations. Good write up and
installaiton instructions on their web sites under products. www.eaton.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 2:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help



> [email protected] wrote:
> > I haven't seen a J-1772 charging station yet, but I believe there is
> > no neutral provided in the corded plug. Only two "hots" for 240 VAC
> > and a ground. So, no 120 VAC available. There may be a separate 20
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well,"The more the merrier." Already there are more companies in the
"Charging Infrastructure" business than there are major Auto manufacturers,
as players in the Electric or "Plug-In" vehicle business. Hopefully the
multiplicity of companies will Lobby our Government Officials to increase
the EV Industry accentuating legislation. (Ops, I almost stumbled hopping of
that soapbox.)
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4-EVTI
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
==========================================================


> Kent.Barnes <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > The Eaton Crop is building the J1772 charging stations. Good write up and
> > installaiton instructions on their web sites under products.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> storm connors wrote:
> 
> > I think the basic question has not been answered. If you plug
> > the 120V power cord into 240V, what will really happen?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I charge my car that way all the time with no problems.
I did have an issue with a cheap Harbor Freight F-male plug, 
I went to a high quality plug and in 1 year no problem.
I'm only drawing 15 amps though.
My chargers work with 120 or 240 so it works out well to use the old plug
(VW Rabbit conversion gas cap location) that was in the car. 
Neal
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush wrote:
> 
> > Entirely correct, the J1772 is 240vac ONLY.
> 
> ...


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