# Zivan vs Elcon



## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

So I'm looking hard at a Zivan NG3 or a Elcon PFC-2500.

I can get them for roughly the same price (the Zivan is used and would need to be shipped and be reprogrammed -- after which it'd be the same final price as the new Elcon).

Thoughts either way? I fully admit I don't know enough about it to make an educated decision and the only thing I have to go on are the self-published ratings (for which the Zivan isn't 100% clear) and 'you get what you pay for' statements by others...

Edit: Sorry -- my info might be helpful, eh?

I've got standard 20A US (110-120V) outlets in my garage and have never, ever, seen a charging station or anything in real life -- so I don't expect much non-110V opportunity charging. That said, I would be open to dropping a 230V into my garage -- but I'd still want the ability to opportunity charge 110 (and do so without blowing my friends circuits...  )


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

I have an Elcon 2500 and I can tell you that I would rather purchased a Zivan charger. I Live in Phoenix, Arizona and I had to install a fan to keep the charger from over heating. Also the charger is not programmable. So I will have to purchase a new charger when I switch to lithium batteries.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Zivan's pros: internal cooling, very high quality and reliability record.
Zivan's cons: not sealed, so mount it away from elements, single voltage ( either 110 or 220 selected when you buy it ).

Elcon's pros and cons are basically reversed from Zivans, except it also seems to be good quality, at least I have not heard many complains.

They are both factory programmed, but new Elcons can be programmed with multiple voltages if you ask for it. 

New Elcons also have "charge enable" inputs which is nice for BMS interfacing.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

dimitri said:


> New Elcons also have "charge enable" inputs which is nice for BMS interfacing.


Don't the Zivan's have this? As well as multiple (limited) user-selectable voltages? It's tough -- there is such poor documentation on the Zivans...


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> Don't the Zivan's have this? As well as multiple (limited) user-selectable voltages? It's tough -- there is such poor documentation on the Zivans...


you mentioned a used Zivan, so it probably won't have BMS input, new ones can be fitted with it as an option, or so I heard. In US both Elcon and Zivan is serviced by same company, so you might as well call them and get real answers.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I can't talk too much about the other chargers... but I have had an Elcon for over a year now. They are re-programmable. Mine was originally applied to SLA AGM's and now I use it on LifePo. It is a 6 kw charger with 4 fans and does get a bit warm if I don't open the windows (charger is behind seat of truck). I have never had any issues with it. I could not find a domestic charger that had all the features I wanted, at the time.
It can run from 120 or 240 VAC. It has an isolated secondary circuit (safer). It is high efficiency design (switch mode power supply). It is re-programmable. It is sealed against the elements. It comes with 10 pre-loaded algorithms for different size batteries. You can have these 10 changed to whatever you like. I had mine programmed for 10 different voltage levels. Basically 3.5vpc for 61 all the way up to 70 cells. If I change my pack size or want to finish to a different voltage, I just pick a different curve.
I would strongly encourage the 240 volt option. I charged from 120 in the beginning and love the higher output, shorter charge time of 240vac. It runs at about 27.2 amps at 225 volts.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

DIYguy said:


> I can't talk too much about the other chargers... but I have had an Elcon for over a year now. They are re-programmable. Mine was originally applied to SLA AGM's and now I use it on LifePo. It is a 6 kw charger with 4 fans and does get a bit warm if I don't open the windows (charger is behind seat of truck). I have never had any issues with it. I could not find a domestic charger that had all the features I wanted, at the time.
> It can run from 120 or 240 VAC. It has an isolated secondary circuit (safer). It is high efficiency design (switch mode power supply). It is re-programmable. It is sealed against the elements. It comes with 10 pre-loaded algorithms for different size batteries. You can have these 10 changed to whatever you like. I had mine programmed for 10 different voltage levels. Basically 3.5vpc for 61 all the way up to 70 cells. If I change my pack size or want to finish to a different voltage, I just pick a different curve.
> I would strongly encourage the 240 volt option. I charged from 120 in the beginning and love the higher output, shorter charge time of 240vac. It runs at about 27.2 amps at 225 volts.


Who reprogrammed your Elcon for you? When I purchased mine from evassemble they said that it came one way and that was it. Just curious. It will be nice if I do not have to purchase a new charger when I change batteries.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

gsmith191145 said:


> Who reprogrammed your Elcon for you? When I purchased mine from evassemble they said that it came one way and that was it. Just curious. It will be nice if I do not have to purchase a new charger when I change batteries.


Greg McCrea of Zivan USA. He owns part of Elcon also. 
EVassemble told you crap.
You do not need to buy a different charger.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

DIYguy said:


> Greg McCrea of Zivan USA. He owns part of Elcon also.
> EVassemble told you crap.
> You do not need to buy a different charger.


Thank you for the information.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I have used both Zivan ng-1, and then upgraded to elcon pfc1500 when I bumped voltage up to 120v as the ng1 is only rated up to 96v nominal. The zivan is audible as fan runs when charging, and open case that should be protected from elements.

I went with the elcon 1500 because I didn't want to pop regular 120v house circuits, and don't really NEED to charge any faster. It pulls a pretty steady 12 amps out of the wall, which is plenty....


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I can't speak to the Zivans because I've never owned one. I have owned and used 2 different Elcons. I had a 1500 which worked well for me, charging a 144vdc pack using 120vac. After my controller burned out, it damaged the charger. I sent it to Elcon to have it rebuilt. They rebuilt it, but one of the circuits still did not work. I sent it back. They looked at it and offered me a 2000 at a discount to replace my 1500. I took it, and glad that I did. The 2000 is programable, and has a fan to help cool it down when it's charging. It will also work on 240vac, and it charges fast then. If you use 240, be sure it has good air circulation for the fan, because the charger will get hot. I use the 2000 all day while I'm at work, plugged into a 15a 110vac outlet. When I get home I plug it into a 20a 110vac outlet for the night. It takes about 7 hours to get a full charge for either the trip to work, or the trip home. So my Elcon is running about 14 hours a day, or more. I could charge on 240vac at home, but what's the point. I won't use the EV until the next day, so I might as well allow it to charge slowly.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you for the great information in this thread. In the end, my source for the Zivan ended up being bad at email ... so I went with the elcon 2500.

Someone from there called me and got the voltages and curves all sorted out this past weekend. Yippie.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

So where did you end up buying your Elcon from Lowcrawler? Sounds like good service.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

I ended up getting it at http://www.evolveelectrics.com

They have you select the curve when you buy -- but then he called over the weekend and asked me some more questions about my configuration -- saying that the curve I picked has come back a disporportionate number of times due to people being unhappy with it. 
We talked for like 5-10 minutes and he ended up recommending a different curve and explained what is user serviceable and how I should go through my build (which won't start with a BMS but will quickly get a miniBMS going after initial build).. etc..etc... It was really quite helpful; might have paid a little more but knowing someone is watching over their product and ensuring it will work really adds some piece of mind.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> I ended up getting it at http://www.evolveelectrics.com



I've had several good purchases from them.... responsive, good prices on most stuff, on-time delivery as promised.


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> I've had several good purchases from them.... responsive, good prices on most stuff, on-time delivery as promised.


I've also gone with EvolveElectrics before, for my WarP9. They're based in Boulder, CO so I saved a ton of shipping by making the 45-minute drive and picking up the motor direct! Justin (the owner) has been really helpful with a lot of my questions. I'll probably go with them for my charger as well.


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## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

So, which curve did you end up getting? Why was the curve chosen over the one you thought you had wanted?

Thanks


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

madmike8 said:


> So, which curve did you end up getting? Why was the curve chosen over the one you thought you had wanted?
> 
> Thanks


You're readin' my mind MadMike! I was looking at those chargers on their site just yesterday. It looked like profile 501 would be about right but I'm not sure I was completely understanding the profile details.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

EVfun said:


> You're readin' my mind MadMike! I was looking at those chargers on their site just yesterday. It looked like profile 501 would be about right but I'm not sure I was completely understanding the profile details.



In most cases 512 would be sufficient for Elcon and that what they (zivanusa.com) recommend.

My.2c.
-Y


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Yep, we talked and decided on the 512.... using the BMS to turn things off long-term.

I had been looking at the 312 and he mentioned that lots of those come back for reprogramming due to under-charging the pack.


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

lowcrawler said:


> Yep, we talked and decided on the 512.... using the BMS to turn things off long-term.
> 
> I had been looking at the 312 and he mentioned that lots of those come back for reprogramming due to under-charging the pack.


512 goes from CC to CV at 3.65v. If you use MiniBMS (which I think you said you were going to), it starts shunting at 3.5, and shuts off at 3.6v. Seems like lost energy to push through the shunting phase every charge cycle to get to where the BMS will shut off the charger. Plus, you are always going to be killing the charger power while still in CC mode, never reaching CV, right? What was his reasoning for suggesting this, it doesn't make sense to me. I would assume the 501 profile would be better, which goes CC to CV at 3.50v. Then you would not be shunting much, but still reaching full charge, right?


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Like I said, he implied that not going to the higher voltage resulted in people complaining about under-charged packs. He knew I was using CALB cells (which state 3.6... which is why I originally looked at the other curve)

As it is, I'll just set it to a lesser cell count to get the voltage to where I want it.


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