# Use LED's instead of globes?



## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

So I'm in The Good Guys looking for a ceramic heater for my demister and chatting to the sales guy I discover he is very interested in conversion despite never starting.

He mentioned in passing something about replacing the light globes with LEDs to save power.

Has anyone tried this? Are LEDs legal for headlights or just the interior/brakes/indicators?

And most importantly, is it going to have much of an effect on the range? My hunch is NOT REALLY.

Your thoughts appreciated.


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## wakinyantanka (Apr 8, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> So I'm in The Good Guys looking for a ceramic heater for my demister and chatting to the sales guy I discover he is very interested in conversion despite never starting.
> 
> He mentioned in passing something about replacing the light globes with LEDs to save power.
> 
> ...


In my ground up build I'll be using high power leds for the headlights both high and low beam. The only law here in the US is that low beams must be a minimum of 700 lumens, high beam 1400 lumens and no lower than 45cm from the ground. In my research it is a huge savings in watts consumed. The average headlamp will consume over 55watts, while the leds will barely do 5watts. Well worth the cost and design effort. The high power leds must have a heatsink and be properly cooled.


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## Electric_Rav (Aug 11, 2008)

Anybody know of a good supplier of LED automotive bulb replacements?


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Lets assume that if you change over all your automotive lighting to LED's and save 200 watts of power. Now consider that a typical smallish car conversion uses around 10,000 watts going at 60mph. So you might buy yourself 2% more range, or probably a fraction of a mile.

Now one very good reason to consider LED lighting is to reduce load on your DC/DC converter. A typical car alternator can dump 600 watts or more, while most DC/DC's aren't good for that much. This means 12V system voltage fluctuates a lot when the batteries are under load, especially if you have a very small 12V accessory battery. My car has this problem to some degree and with another dark, cold, wet winter coming, I figure the easiest way to alleviate this is by reducing the lighting loads. I won't be changing the headlights over, but all the running lights and tail lights will get replaced with LEDs at some point.


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## gmijackso (Sep 30, 2008)

Another thing to be aware of is that I believe some states have something like a minimum visible distance for headlights. This is how they would ensure the headlights are directional enough to see far enough to not hit things at highway speeds.

Also be aware of the color spectrum rules. Even many of the silver/blue headlight bulbs you can buy at the local auto parts store isn't road legal in a lot of places. Just keep that in mind, the color of LEDs is significantly different than the color of a conventional head lamp.

I'm all for converting to LEDs. As I stated in a thread earlier today, I really think that this hobby/sport/lifestyle/etc should be all about making the most efficient vehicle possible within means. If you add up every 1% here 5% there, you'll eventually come up with a lot of gained % that would have been lost (think regen, small solar, LED, coasting). If you gain enough back in efficiency, you might be able to reduce battery weight and obtain the same distance. Reducing battery weight is yet another gain in efficiency.

My new favorite quote (slightly modified) that I made up earlier today says it all I think...
Maybe it doesn't make much sense to fill the salt shaker one grain at a time, but it's better than leaving it empty, and even better than throwing it way. And eventually it'll be full.


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

Electric_Rav said:


> Anybody know of a good supplier of LED automotive bulb replacements?


I just surfed Ebay and there are a lot. They are light so postage isn't prohibitive (this from a guy who is going to freight a 9 inch electric motor across the country...)

Many have specialised packs for brake/indicator with equivalent part nos listed, so you know which ones will match your car. Screw and bayonet available.

I'm thinking I will definitely pimp my ride, but I'm going to finish the basic conversion first.


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I converted all of my lights to LED lights except the head lights. I bought the factory replacement one. It reduced my load on my DC/DC converter by quite a bit. My DC/DC converter made a small wine when it had to adjust for the new load, so every time the brakes went on or the blinkers or turning on the lights, it would wine until the load leveled out. I have since removed the DC/DC converter and added an small AGM motorcycle battery and a 12v smart charger. My DC/DC converter had a 7 amp draw on my main traction pack with just the car running. If I had my radio on, head lights, vent; I was pushing into the high teens for that stuff. I really don't think my car needed 2250 watts (125 volts X 18 amps) to run that stuff. Since pulling out the DC/DC converter, I haven't any any problems running on that one AGM battery. I think that DC/DC converter was just that inefficient at converting power for my 12 volt system.


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## veperformance (Aug 17, 2007)

I would agree to say it would not be a big gain if yo drive very short period but , in my ev i mesured before and after converting everything(including gage lamps and dome lamps) and the result was from 37.174 amps to 11.6004 amps.(i also replaced headlamp with hid a 35%reduction).With these results in mind imagine getting stuck in traffic with lights on.Yes they are more expensive but they should last so long that you can reuse them in many conversions.The only downside i heard of in my area is that emergency vehicle have clear the snow oftend during snow storms because the led dont generate the heat to melt the snow on the lens.


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I wish I would have taken a reading before and after the conversion. It would be nice to know how much it helped. Between replacing the bulbs with LEDs and removing my DC/DC converter, I ended up gaining 2 miles.

There is some merit to changing over to LEDs. The car has a lot of inefficient devices on it. Auto manufacturers don't take the time to make cars ultra efficient. It doesn't sound like much but if the lighting system of a car was more efficient, then it would depend less on the alternator which increase your gas mileage. If you put on a smart alternator, that saves even more gas. It essentially starts a chain effect when you add efficiencies.


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## veperformance (Aug 17, 2007)

Jared
I just looked at your austin ev page and noticed that you have a hard time with flasher , get a true electronic flasher relay . the only time i found it did not work is when replaced the indicator lamp in the cluster but other than that it should work fine with front lamps , front and rear side marker and rear brake lamp using led.
Did you replace your dome lamps, interior and center brake lamp?
Also take a mesure of the blower motor ,, if you use it , consider a brushless replacement motor.


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## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

I can't say what you'll get in your car, but I found a bunch of info related to putting bulbs into your house. It's amazing the cost difference.

http://www.easywebcalculators.com/cf.htm


In my research and in actual buying, I found quite a bit about LED lights. First, you can "tune" the color temperature of the bulb to be whatever you like. I like "daylight" heat, most LED's are a very white light that's hard to get used to. Everything is based on their phenomenal expected lifespan.

You should be able to get LED bulbs for everything. If you can avoid accidents, then I would say your total cost of ownership for the LEDs will be much better than incandescent. When I get my conversion going, I will almost certainly use LEDs. That of course is just about last on the list, so you never know what will happen.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Just a small warning for us that lives in Europe. All cars newer than, uh, a certain year I can't remember at the moment (-91?) must have all the bulbs etc E-typed, otherwise they're not street legal. For countries outside of EU it might be a good idea to check for similar rules as well.

Just wanted to mention that before someone goes E-bay-frenzy and waste a lot of good money on something that might have to be ditched later. Please, carry on.


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

Qer said:


> ...must have all the bulbs etc E-typed, otherwise they're not street legal.


Could you please explain E-typed? I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the Jaguar...


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> Could you please explain E-typed? I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the Jaguar...


It probably stands for "Europe typed" or something like that. Usually you can see it as an E stamped on the glass of the head lights etc and I think there's an E printed among the other information ("12V 5W E" or so) on the bulbs as well. It's supposed to be a guarantee that the stuff is of good enough quality. Personally I think it's bull, with the possible exception for the head lights.

Unfortunately my google karma is still asleep so I can't find any relevant documentation.

Yes, Jaguar is completely innocent.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

The new Caddilac Escalade has LED headlights.
They each have a fan for cooling.
Each headlight generates a very high lumen and heat.
The LEDs that produce over 7,000 lumens and have the similar quality of the sun's color produce lots of heat.
Hopefully very soon the high output LEDs will use nano telluride housings for heat exchange and converting the heat to electricity.
MIT's website has the information on this.
Meanwhile I would suggest using Hella HID headlights.
They put out three times or more lumens as halogen lamps and use very little amperage.
Google up Hella PIA HID running lights.


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

Electric_Rav said:


> Anybody know of a good supplier of LED automotive bulb replacements?


http://www.superbrightleds.com/


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## HDS (Aug 11, 2008)

I was checking on LED headlights a short while ago. Cadillac just came out with a model that has LED headlights. As I recall, it uses 7 large LED's; 3 for low beam and 4 for high beam. I think that Mercedes or SAAB also has one. I do not know the specs on it yet but I bet it has great life expectancy and greatly reduced consumption.


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