# Donor Car Selection



## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

I thought i would make a disscussion around this thread, to discuss the accuracy of the information, usefulness of the topics and possible changes to the table. I am curious as to how useful you consider the fuel economy colomns, the theory behind it was that generally gas gussling cars become amp guzzling EV's but a lot of that purely has to do with the quality of the engine that you are removing and not to do with the weight, aerodynamics, rolling resistance etc. Do you think it is still worth having the fuel economy column for these cars? Also if there are any cars you wish to see added to the table but don't have the information for them or are unable to edit the wiki (i don't blame you, its pretty tricky) please post the car and any information you have about it in this thread and i will track it down for you.


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## ev3k (Oct 4, 2007)

More useful to me (but not perhaps to others more experienced in the art of the conversion) would be a column which shows the GVWR of the vehicles included in the table. For me, the information on gas mileage is not as critical. I would rather see how much payload (above curb weight) a given vehicle is rated to carry, thereby telling me something about how much potential capacity I have for batteries.

Steve


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

According to your (and others') good suggestions i added some GVMR columns to the table, they're empty at the moment but it took me a good while to manually copy and paste them into the table. You have to do each cell individually and after doing them side by side i realised they would be better next to their curb mass (in metric/imperial) so i went back and re-did it. If anyone wants to add information just click edit and take a deep breath (the text will look a bit intimidating if you aren't used to programming). Find the name of the car you want and just replace the "GVWR (units)" with the appropriate data and make sure you preview it before saving. If you don't want to go to that trouble just post the data here or personal message me and i'll do it. It would be great to get a few more people contibuting so we can build on this resource.


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## Vwbeamer (Jun 16, 2008)

You should consider adding the air cooled beetle. It is light and there are a number of companies that make kits to convert them.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

If you look up the specs I'll add it for you. It takes a bit of research time but I'm sure it would be helpful for others...


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## VDubber (Jun 2, 2008)

Vwbeamer said:


> You should consider adding the air cooled beetle. It is light and there are a number of companies that make kits to convert them.


+1

Also, the classic/super VW beetle (aka Type 1) has cheaper and easier to find parts then half of those other cars.


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## Vwbeamer (Jun 16, 2008)

61-64 beetle

*Engine*: Horizontally opposed four, overhead chain-driven cams, two valves per cylinder, cast-magnesium crankcase and cast-iron cylinders and alloy pistons, 1,192cc (72.74 cubic inches)
*Horsepower*: 40 @ 3,900 rpm
*Torque*: 61-lbs.ft. @ 2,000 rpm
*Induction system*: Solex 1-bbl. carburetor
*Gearbox*: Four-speed manual, fully synchronized
*Length*: 160.2 inches
*Width*: 60.6 inches
*Height*: 59.1 inches
*Curb weight*: 1,720 pounds
*0-60 mph*: 27 seconds
*Top speed*: 72 mph


My own car, which has an aftermarket 2332cc engine, wieghs in at only 1550lbs, it has lost it bumpers, rear seat and running boards.

***The earlier 64 and back cars have a much stronger king pin front end. There have been reports of some ball joints front ends (1965 and later) breaking with heavy curb weights.****

Thanks for a great forum and resource!!


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## VDubber (Jun 2, 2008)

How strong is the Super Beetle front end (MacPherson Struts)? If you like "newer car" handling, then you would be converting a Super Beetle, not a standard one.

Maybe that should be added seperate? Or perhaps just extend the year range to include 61-75 and add a note...


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

No I meant the specs as in matching the donor car section:
Make/ModelWeight (lbs)GVWR (lbs)Weight (kgs)GVWR (kgs)CdA (square ft)Economy (mpg)Economy (L/100km)Links to previous conversions


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## VDubber (Jun 2, 2008)

Well I got these number for a classic bug:

Drag - 0.42
Frontal Area - 18
Curb Wt - 1980
Drive Eff - 0.91


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## nereuspd (Mar 4, 2009)

New here and looking at the donor table see that the GVWR of a Miata is 3784 lbs. 
This is incorrect, my 2000 miata is 2332 curb and 2835 gvwr. Probably a typo, 2784 lbs maybe?


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

I own 2 Beetles.
1973 Sedan - Torsion Bar front end - ICE powered
1977 Convertible (my EV) - MacPherson Strut front end. www.evalbum.com/2187

I had to add spring spacers to the MacPherson Struts when I added 360 lbs of LA Batts in the trunk. I'll be removing those batts once my Lithiums arrive.
I don't like the way the vehicle handles with that much weight and spacers on the front end. The steering feels stiff and of course the suspension is much stiffer and rattles your teeth when you hit a bump.

I have completely restored 4 Beetles in the past 15 years and YES, the parts are readily available and inexpensive.
However, if I were to convert another, I would choose a 1973 or earlier with the Torsion Bar front end. There are coil-over shocks which can be used with that front end to regulate the height and stiffness.
I have a pair on my 73 and it handles just fine.
Roy


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## pinetree (Jun 10, 2010)

I have a fairly rare, ultra-lightweight English 2-seater, a '59 Berkeley, originally powered by an approx. 20 hp 2-stroke 2-cycle motorcycle motor. The whole car weighs only 680 lb, and with the motor and gas tank out, it will be about 550 lb. I wonder if more experienced EV-ers than I have advice on battery numbers and sizes? Because lead-acid would double the weight of the car, clearly lithium (Thundersky or similar) makes good sense-- under 180 lb, leaving the car not much heavier than original. So: Can I get by with less than 96v? I'm looking for bursts in the high 60mph (like the orig. 20 hp ICE), moderate 60-ish maintained for maybe 10 miles on the freeway, and a total usable range near 50 mi. The car's frontal area is small and fairly aerodynamic (google BEC and Berkeley or Berkeley and coldplugs to get a look-- somewhat Italian front end). Would 72v be clearly too little-- or is there such a thing as 84v? Do I need to go with 200 a-hr? All advice appreciated. -Chris in VA


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

pinetree said:


> I have a fairly rare, ultra-lightweight English 2-seater, a '59 Berkeley,...bursts in the high 60mph (like the orig. 20 hp ICE), ...maybe 10 miles on the freeway, and a total usable range near 50 mi.


sounds like 120v worth of 160ah would be a fab build..... w.a.g. You MIGHT even get by with 100ah, but the 50 miles would lean to the higher capacity as a better bet. sticking to 120v would lower max amp pull while holding to the lower v rated (less expensive) components.

d


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## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Hey I found a lot of cars that look to be self reported or something from an ecomodder forum. The data is pretty unwieldy in internet form so I finagled it into an excel 2007 workbook (xlsx)  I added some calculations because the numbers reported seemed a little off for CdA and frontal area. The ecomodder link has the formulas that I used, and they are below as is the link. I hope you guys find this useful.

Frontal Area formula = Height * Width * .84 
(Height and Width in feet) 
Frontal Area formula = (Height/12) * (Width/12) * .84 
(Height and Width in inches) 
CdA formula = Cd * Frontal Area 

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List


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## Miagieek (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi guys,

Please let me make you notice, this is my first post here.

I have been searching the internet for a decent ranking table of possible donor cars. This thread seems to be the best find yet, and I'm sorry to be unsatisfied.

Can anyone please redirect me to a more complete list? 
I am very interested in helping out on completing and possibly making a true query-able database from all submitted specifications.

I do understand the limits to the impact of which donor car you choose. But not having a donor car at hand and many different options (on european secondhand market), such list comes in really handy.

So where do I go?

It seems carfolio has a lot of info on cars, but you can't sort by weight or aerodynamic coefficient... I'll be contacting them.


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## Plymouth60 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hi,
I am working on converting my 1st generation Miata (MX5). Does anybody know the source for the GVWR listed above:
Make/Model	Weight (lbs)	GVWR (lbs)	Weight (kgs)	GVWR (kgs)	
Mazda Miata (1st Gen, 90-93) 2447	3784 (lbs)	1109 1716 (kgs)
I need to be able to prove this for my certifier.

Thanks
John


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## jhopki (Mar 16, 2013)

Hi Guys,
This is my first post. I am asking if someone can help with this decision. I know someone with a Mazda Miata 1996 M Edition for sale, and would like help if I can convert it? Or will it not work seeing that it's an automatic, please help.

Jonathan


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Automatics can work but they're more work.


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## jhopki (Mar 16, 2013)

Please tell me with some details, what you mean by a lot of work?
thanks


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

With a manual you connect your motor to the transmission, set a few variables in the controller if it has them, and figure out your safe and ideal speeds for each gear.

With an automatic, in addition to the above, the motor has to be idled and the transmission configured for the right shift points, which may involve messing with the ECU or other control circuits depending on the donor.

There are some threads on automatics you can read for details.


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## jhopki (Mar 16, 2013)

I read something from a company that sales kits say that converting an automatic Mazda Miata will use more of the battery's power making the cars distance per charge less then a manual car, how accurate is that info? Or will reprogramming the ecu fix this?


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## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

jhopki said:


> I read something from a company that sales kits say that converting an automatic Mazda Miata will use more of the battery's power making the cars distance per charge less then a manual car, how accurate is that info? Or will reprogramming the ecu fix this?


If you're converting an NA Miata (90-97) the ECU gets tossed in the scrap pile, so it's not going to help you one way or the other.

Automatic transmissions are typically less efficient than manual transmissions, regardless of make. Plus, getting your automatic transmission to talk to your EV setup is a project in itself (see the Powerglide thread...)


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## jhopki (Mar 16, 2013)

One of my brothers has a friend with a Honda Del sol that's a 5 speed stick. Willing to sale it. I know nothing about this car will it work to convert it? It is also front wheel drive will that help or hinder? please advise?


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## miev 1 (Jan 22, 2015)

> Hi guys,
> 
> Please let me make you notice, this is my first post here.
> 
> ...


Yes, I was looking for a better list. Anyone have a bigger list.
Or do we have to start adding to this one.

It is a bit hard to find curb weights quickly. Spent last couple days just looking into this. Some sites have it, some after paging down and clicking etc...

So, would <3000 be ideal? What about a non sports car project. Like a 2x jeep or pickup truck. Where is this data?
The only thing coming up is that the 2015 Ford f-150 is now down to 4500 lbs with aluminum parts.

I think I should go weigh my cars right now!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

It might help to list what wheels are driven. Although the stock engine won't be used, the transmission often is, and even if replacing the transmission you need driven hubs and space for drive hardware... electrically driving the rear wheels of most front-wheel-drive cars is not practical.


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