# Mo's 1996 Corvette Conversion - Long



## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Folks,
I'm new to this forum, but have spent years on the Corvette forums.

I have finally decided to let the cat out of the bag and go "public" with my Corvette Conversion.

In March I took the car for its 2 year smog test and failed in the 15 mph section of the test. After throwing another $2,000 at trying to get it to pass I decided that I was going to spend the money to convert the car.

I'm not going quite as radical as some of the other conversions but decided I that I would start with a baseline and go from there...

I'm eventually going to go with Lithium's, but for now I'm running 12 Optima Deep Cycle Marine Batteries (144 volt ). Rather than going with the D31's I went with the D34's to make the car lean. I'm running a 9" ADC EM and a 500A Curtis controller, moving up to a hefter controller later. Based on my calculations once you get so far you use more energy moving the weight than having a little spirit to the car.

I have seen a ton of "spirited" threads on using an automatic. I'm one of them. The car has a 4L60E automatic transmission. I have a programmer to program the shifts, pressures, etc. It was easier to keep the trans than to go out and find or buy a manual. For me it is a choice.

I have the car running and am about 2 weeks from having it re-registered.

Thus far I'm pleased with the results. The car is drawing attention in the neighborhood, not that it is a Corvette but more that there is no rumble.

Attached are a few pictures of the car thus far...

Enjoy!

MO


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## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

Hi Mo,

Sounds like another awesome Vette conversion. It looks like a clean build. Will you be posting some more larger pictures?

How are the preliminarily tests with the 9" motor? I cant wait to hear what kind of performance you are getting so I can figure out what I will get with an 11" motor. 

Defiantly keep us updated. 

-Adam


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I am interested in information about your automatic trans and programming the shift points? Is this somethign anyone can do? very complex?

any details you can provide would be greatly appreciated? These trans can be built for tons of torque so should be good match fo a torquey E-motor....

congrats on the start of the build!


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Adam,

Thank you! 
Your's is going to probably be quite snappy... Originally I was going to go with the 11" EM and D31's as well , but the local dealer didn't call me in like 5 days so in that time I got ansy amd went and picked everything up from another guy.

It is nothing close to it's supercharged 780HP heyday but the reaction from people I drive by is priceless LOL Looking for the "rumble".

Yes I'll post some larger pictures... I saw the 97K limit and went too small 

Your setup is going to be awesome. As I mentioned I went lean on the batteries to keep the car snappy. The first change will be upping the controller and probably go to a taller rear end. When you start hitting the 800-1000 amp range the thig should come alive.

I'm still working out the transmission shifts, but on jackstands with just the tires as a load, I was hitting over 80 mph. I'm guessing the top end should be about 85.

I'm also investigating "losing" the torque converter as in 1st gear it is turning almost 2:1 to the input shaft. So I'm leaving a ton of speed on the table. I'm too stubborn to switch to a manual...LOL

Hi Bowser33, The transmission is a 4L60E that was built to Pro Comp standards, the car was running low 10's in the quarter mile , I'm using the same high stall 2400 rpm converter which is certainly working again me...Opposite of an ICE it should be actually much lower in my opinion. 

I'm using two programs... one is Autotap where I can log the trans shifts pressures etc. Then to program the tranmission I use a program called LT1 edit which actually will program everything in the ECM from timing , AFR , and such with the ICE but also it will program the shift points , mph at TPS% pressure at TPS the TCC on and off etc. etc. 

It is pricey but worked well when I was racing the car. If your are "somewhat" mechanically or "computer inclined" it really is not too difficult although there are a TON of settings...

Right now I'm working out the shift points, as I have to lift the throttle to get the trans to shift up, I have the converter lock in second gear, by default first will not lock up. I have not had time to go in , but there is also a place where you can actually set the points to run the trans in manual. So there is still some work to do there.

Since my street is a "private" circle unfortuantely it has speed bumps. but I have probaly put anbout 10-12 miles on it thus far. I'm very happy with the Optima D34M's I chose them for weight and I'm partial to terminals versus the standard posts. Where if I decide the range is not good enough they are small enough and light enough I can add a second string which would put me at 144v and 110 Ah but it adds another 520 pound to the car LOL them the "snap" according to my calcular will go away... But the idea of my build was to keep it light as possible and try to make it snappy as possible since I still have my other 2006 Corvette if I want to "zip" around longer distances.

I'll put togther some larger pictures, they are thumbnails if you mouse over you will see the hand LOL

Best regards,
MO


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

A couple folks were asking for MOre pictures...

Here you go ... 

I will be updating my personal website soon.

MO


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Mo's 1996 Corvette Conversion - Update*

I just wanted to bump this back to the top, it s good to see some other "muscle car s" joining the conversion.

I have finished with the 12 batteries and about week or so from going to DMV to have the registrations switched over to electric.

I had to do some additional programming on the transmission to get it to shift without hving to lift on the pedal. lI have been able to get it to literally cruise at less than 100 amps average at 45 mph and have hit a top speed of 55 mph thus far.

I have also found it much easier to drive with the motor idling at about 400 rpms to keep the transmission pressure up than with no idle and a few seconds waiting for it to ramp up. I'm not sure what that was doing to the transmission. The transmission have only climbed to about 150 degrees thus far.

Mo


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## everanger (Sep 7, 2009)

very cool as a fellow hot rodder going "green" its great to see it


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: Mo's 1996 Corvette Conversion - Update*



Mo_Bandy said:


> I just wanted to bump this back to the top, it s good to see some other "muscle car s" joining the conversion.
> 
> I have finished with the 12 batteries and about week or so from going to DMV to have the registrations switched over to electric.
> 
> ...


Awesome car and setup..I am jealous..

Questions:
So 144V and 90A draw @ 45mph, 13kw needed to go 45mph...

Hmmm..I thought @ 45mph an aerodynamic car would only need 7kw? You don't weigh all that much...3100lbs...

What rpm are you running the motor at when you took the 100A average data?

Just to clarify the data was taken on flat ground, no hills, right?


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Bowser, 

Thank you!

Yes I'm at about 3100 pounds. According to my "calculator" It says I should be around 12.3K in second gear at 45mph... I think I need to up the rear end ratio to get more efficiency. I'm using the ADC 9" motor, I'm around 3000 rpm in second gear, yes for the most part on level ground. The Optima's I'm using are only 55 Ah, I opted going with lighter batteries and eventually will go to a seconb string or save for the Lithiums. It seemd with heavier battereied I would be "wasting" energy moving the extra weight around, and it did not dramatically increase the range. So I opted to run lighter than the stock weight.

At 45 I'm on and off the throttle and it defianately is not more than 100 amps to hold it there. The car is rolling pretty good actually. I have the tired pumped up to like 30 PSI to try to cut the rolling resistance some since they are close to 12 inches wide in the rear....

I'm still working out the programming on the transmission and finding the most efficient gear / rpms to drive... Also I'm working out getting the torque converter to "lock". There is no TCC lock in first gear... So I have been trying different sceneros, 1-2 and then holding in first as long as possible, and have considered just driving in second and skipping first gear all together...

Any thoughts?

Also I know you had some questions in regards to running the automatic, if you care to pm me I'll be happy to share what I have done thus far.

Thanks!

MO


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Awesome vehicle, I love Corvettes.

One thought, maybe you should put a lower (numerically higher, like 6:1) rear gear in. Which gear is straight through? Usually that's the highest gear in an automatic, and since it eliminates a mesh it's a bit more efficient. Then you would minimize your time in the unlocked 1st gear (or maybe you could even program things to skip 1st gear), and cruise in your most efficient gear. The compromise would be you'd be giving up some top speed.




Mo_Bandy said:


> Hi Bowser,
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> ...


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Mo_Bandy said:


> Hi Bowser,
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> ...


I will definitely be needing your help with the auto Mo, thanks for offering your help...

So what i am thinking is if 45MPH is 3000rpm in 2nd gear...then...1st gear @ 45mph would be about 5245rpm, which is probably more efficient for the warp-9 @ 144V... plus if you are on and off the throttle and when you are on it, its below 100A, then considering you are about equal with the on and off, you would be about right where i expected...7kw... cool..


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

David thank you for your input, yes I have thought about doing so as well.

The final ratio is only a 3.07 so with the automatic I'm at 9.39 5.0 3.07 and 2.15 

I'm still "playing" to see if locking the torque converter is a "bonus" or not, off the cuff guess would be yes. I just haven't got enough time behind the wheel yet to look at the amp guage when I'm cruising to see when it locks what the overall affect is.

Bowser, thank you yes I'm running an ADC but you are correct in first at like 45 I'm above 5 grand the estimated efficiency is about 82% but is that too high to be cruising ? In second the efficiency is calculated to be about 85% but the rpms as we have discussed are about 3000. As I mentioned I try to let the car coast as much as possible so I only am on the throttle long enough to maintain speed.

It has been very hot here so the mttor seems warmer than I would like but I'm sure a lot of this is just learning what works the best.

By all means let me know when you get to the transmission.

Mo


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## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

Mo, Im sure im not alone, but I would love to see some video of your car!!! 


I finally done remodeling my house so i will be able to really dive in to getting the 71 converted. The list is huge, but I think it will go by pretty quick. (Frame refinishing, steering conversion, body work, new paint, motor mount, battery mounts and cabling)


-Adam


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Adam,

Funny I was just thinking about that the other day.

I'll try to shoot some footage and upload it to share with everyone.

I hope your projects get finished wo where you can get further on yours as well!

Best regards,

MO


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Mo_Bandy said:


> David thank you for your input, yes I have thought about doing so as well.
> 
> The final ratio is only a 3.07 so with the automatic I'm at 9.39 5.0 3.07 and 2.15
> 
> ...


I was under the impression that people reccomended cruising at high rpm because the internal fan would work faster and the amp draw would be lower and so the motor would run cooler? But maybe i'm wrong...

I would really be interested in knowing your amp draw at 5000rpm since it should be more efficient than 3000rpm...according to the graphs from netgain...but who knows..


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Yes I have heard the same as well

If I'm reading the graph correctly it looks like just shy of 250 amps @ 144 volts at 5000 rpm and 40 ft-lbs of torque.

Now what "Reality" is... LOL I'll let you know once I find out. I'll have to set the trans shifts that high in first as there is no way it will hit 5000 in second gear 


MO


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Mo_Bandy said:


> Yes I have heard the same as well
> 
> If I'm reading the graph correctly it looks like just shy of 250 amps @ 144 volts at 5000 rpm and 40 ft-lbs of torque.
> 
> ...


http://www.evmotors.com.au/products/download/fb144.pdf

Check out this graph, its 144V and your motor, the FB1.

This graph shows you can be at nearly 90% eff. if you are at about 5500rpm

very cool...please do let us know how your tests and progress go, and good luck.


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks... now that it a new way of driving close to 5 grand... I may need to up my tach so that it doesnt look like I'm about to peg it LOL

The stock tach is only to 6 grand.

I'll keep you posted.

MO


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Mo_Bandy said:


> Thanks... now that it a new way of driving close to 5 grand... I may need to up my tach so that it doesnt look like I'm about to peg it LOL
> 
> The stock tach is only to 6 grand.
> 
> ...


well i dont think you need to do that..haha..its just a different way of looking at it...instead of trying to gear your cruising speed to 2000rpm you just try to shoot for 5000rpm.

your original tach is also good to help you not go over 6000rpm which is about the maximum rpm for the motor...

looking forward to your updates..


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

LOL yeah I thought you would get a kick outta that... 

Yeah actually I have found keeping the rpms up around 3500 seem to be paying off.

i'll keep you posted.

mo


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## pgrovetom (Oct 6, 2009)

Hi Mo,

I ran into your postings and then website and hoped to get your views on my 2004 C5 LeMans Z16 conversion investigation. I saw you converted your 1996 and have a C6 LeMans.

I put in a 13KW PV system to run my home on sun power and now I'm exploring converting my C5 Z16. I get 60-80KWHr per day and the EV E-9 PG&E rates are really good. I considered buying a Tesla but realized using the $100K Tesla price minus my Z16 resale might get me a nice converted Z16 which of course is my preference.

How did you go about choosing your motor/controller and configuration? I was thinking as you mentioned in one of the posts starting with your existing battery setup and then moving to Lithium. I was thinking of trying to start with the best compromise Lithium LiFePO4 I can find but choose the best motor/controller/etc available for performance but ready for a battery upgrade late. This idea comes from seeing everything is available today and reasonable except batteries for performance and range.

It sounds like you thought something similar so I was curious if you had it too again to your C6, what setup would you suggest.

I was also curious how things went with the Corvette computer system and how you made it happy with the whole gasoline system gone. My C5 16 has special LeMans suspension system and worried about both the computer and how the weight would effect it? Ant thoughts based on your 96 experience? Any warnings for me? Were you able to maintain the center of gravity to keep your suspension? 

What did you do about air conditioning, heater headlights etc.. ?

I have a 6spd transmission and was considering either keeping it or going direct drive. I see you kept your transmission. How did it work out? Did yo keep the rear end stock?

I'd appreciate any input you might have!

thanks 

Tom


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## crazydonald (Oct 13, 2009)

Mo,
I'm a newbie here, still checking into the electric thing as a curiousity and project I'd like to do.
That being said, I'm an automotive service manager for an independent shop. 
Bare with me as I'm completely new to the electric conversion thing, however given the background I have in transmission repairs as it's something we do in our shop I had this concern.
If you are running a 4L60E you might consider using lockup in 4th gear for longer trips/times of extended cruising. I saw your trans temp was only up to 150 which is ok, but keep an eyeball on it. Lockup aids in fluid flow and cooling, you may end up damaging a trans that is designed to operate normally in lockup by running in a no lockup scenario over time. 
We see this all the time in various makes of vehicles (gas and diesel powered) where the tcc solenoid fails and the vehicle loses lockup. Since we don't have state mandated inspections or e-tests here in KY even if the MIL (ck engine light) is on a lot of people continue to drive under a non-lockup condition because they don't know there's anything wrong. (remember most driver's are not in tune to what their car is doing as many enthusiasts are.) Usually by the time the car makes it to us it's because they noticed a slip or other problem with trans operation. By then the fluid is black and smells smokey and the trans is usually toast.
Just some info I thought might be handy, although from the what I've read you seem to have it together. I'll be curious to see how this all turns out for you. 
Best of luck,
Don


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Don,

Thank you for the insight, I actually have a program which actually allows me to program the ECM, where I was able to reprogram the transmission.

I actually will probably never use 4th gear due to the efficiency and gearing of the car. However I retained all of the transmission circuitry so the transmission acts as if it still has the ICE connected. i.e the lockup of the TCC opeates normal. On thing I did do is it shift out of first at about 29 mph and then I turned on the TCC to engage actually in second gear and it kicks in at about 35 mph vs. only 3rd and 4th.

I also have a external transcooler with a thermostat that kicks a fan on at 175 degrees. Even with say extended trips of say 10 miles or so it has not risen above 154 degrees, which is better than I expected.

Also this is not a "standard" 4l60e it was actually gone through and built to pro comp standards, as my originl engine was a 780 hp supercharged 396 LOL so it has the beefed up cluch pack and all the other goodies.

Thanks again for the thoughts!

Mo


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

pgrovetom said:


> Hi Mo,
> 
> I ran into your postings and then website and hoped to get your views on my 2004 C5 LeMans Z16 conversion investigation. I saw you converted your 1996 and have a C6 LeMans.
> 
> ...


Hi Tom, i sent you a PM...
mo


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

I thought fro those following my build I would post a few more pictures...

I have my eyes on a Zilla 1000 amp controller and some 160 ah lithiums not in the too distant future but here is thus far... Enjoy MO


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## martymcfly (Sep 10, 2008)

Did you put those coil-overs on the front of this vette? Do you still have the old ICE?


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

hi Martymcfly,

Yes I out the coilovers on both front and rear, this was actually 5 years ago when it was still powered by the ICE.

Yes, I still have the ICE. If you would like more information plese IM me i'll be happy to give you whatever information you would like... Also go to my NDNEYES website in my signature under 396 stroker I have most of the specs on the motor I can also provide you with a build sheet...

Best regards,

MO


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Mo's 1996 Corvette On the road and CA Smog legal*

Hi Folks, 
An update for those who maybe following my build.

After being ill for about 6 months I have finally finished the Phase one of my build.

I took the car down to the smog referee which took all of 2 minutes. They complimented me on how clean it looked. It was at a local Community College. I ended up with about 45 students swamming the car asking questions all of them quite positive.

I had one of the instructors ask me for my business card so he could contact me about teaching a module on building electric cars for him.

I drove on down to the DMV where they changed the registration over to Electric to keep me from having to return every two years to have the car smogged LOL. Paid the registration and all was good. 

I was seriously expecting to run into hurdles with the conversion, but found everyone extremely helpful and courteous... I'm blow away!

Phase two is going to consist of a Zilla 2K controller and a second string of batteries 

MO


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## Crash (Oct 20, 2009)

*Re: Mo's 1996 Corvette On the road and CA Smog legal*

Sweet... Sounds like it was a breeze. Glad to hear you're over your illness. Now get back to work and keep us updated!


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## Mo_Bandy (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Mo's 1996 Corvette Conversion - Updates*

It has been a while since I have updated the progress on my thread.

I had changed the voltage from 144 volts to 210 and have updated the Curtis Controller with a Zilla HV2K. The 4 additional batteries will eventually go in the rear of the car in another battery box.









I have now removed the Automatic and am in the process of installing a ZF6 6 speed transmission.



















There will be no clutch pressure plate, throwout bearing or flywheel.










The motor coupler will be keyed for the motor and I will utlilze the spring and spline.

MO


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