# David85's 1996 saturn SL1 goes under the knife



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I really wish I could call this my conversion thread, but alas, I'm a long ways off from that and none of the EV parts are even here yet. First I had to dig the car out of over a foot of snow, then drive it in the shop (check engine light came on for the first time)

The interior is removed, and I can start work on the rust damage on the rear door sills. It really came apart easily, the rear seat doesn't even require tools to remove, ya just have to know where to reach and what to pull. I will have to cut and wield on both sides of the car but it will be one of the easier structural repairs that I've done. 

After that, the spare tire tub gets cut out and a battery box dropped in its place.

In a cruel twist, I may actually have to do some repair on the engine due to a fuel leak near the fuel filter. I can't pull the engine yet because I still need to move it in and out for the time being and our yard isn't flat enough to push it. I never realized how much gasoline stinks! I'm used to the more mellow scent of diesel.

But overall, the car really is in great shape and the door sills seem to be the only part of the car that will need structural repair. I might repaint the hood, but since its galvanized, it seems to be holding up fairly well even with a few chips on the front edge.

This car has seen a lot of road salt, but it really held up well.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Looks like a great candidate; I believe those only weigh about 2300lbs. And at least your body will never rust! My back seat comes out real easy too - just a little button you push to release and pull it out. It's how you get to the fuel pump so they made it easy. Now why didn't they make it easy to get to the heater core from the engine compartment??

Anywho... congrats on getting started. Have you ordered your parts yet? What voltage/setup are you planning on? Details, man.. details.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'll be using a 730+lb lithium iron phosphate battery that "should be" on the ship by now. 144V and 200Ah gives me almost 29kwh of energy so the car should be able to give me 100 miles if I drive normally (more if I'm gentile). *SHOULD.....* all the info I have indicates that, but the only way to really know is to drive it when its done.

The motor will be a custom brushless DC, if my contact can fit my build into his schedule. I'm probably looking at 2 months before I see the motor and it could be longer to get a controller. The specs he sent me for the motor are such that it would blow the warp 9" away but with only half the weight, and real world efficiency in the mid 90s. It will be worth the wait. Otherwise I can still go with a warP 9".

You're right about the weight of the car. I looked it up and its about 2330 with powersteering and AC. I suspect mine is closer to 2280 stock since it has manual steering and absolutely NO options. In a different universe I could have owned a saturn like this. The car only has 100Hp stock but it moves along nicely (0-60 in 10.5 seconds!) and handling is great yet the ride is still nice and smooth.

Its probably the most sleek, lightweight, aerodynamic 4 door that I could find. Saturns of this era are also worthless on the market, so they can be picked up fairly cheap compared to imports. I got this one for $750 with oil in the coolant, but it still drove the 250 miles home no problem.

I may still swap the transaxle for a close ratio/performance tranny that the DOHC saturns had. That would bring my top gear RPM up to 3000 from 2500 @ 70 MPH. I've been told that those can be cheap to find as well. Also going to swap the rear drum brakes for disc brakes. Again, this is an OEM upgrade, so I should be able to find the parts at a wrecker. A belly pan is also planned to get better aerodynamics since I want this car to perform well at freeway speeds.

The DC/DC converter, vacuum pump, gauges and the rest I'm not even thinking about right now because I know several sources for them so right now those parts are the least of my worries.


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

sounds like an exciting and different project, one that many will follow for sure, especially with that battery and custom motor.... I'm certainly looking forward to reading all your updates!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I put it under the knife today. Brings back fond memories of restoring my truck a few years ago.

I was hoping just the top layer of the rocker panel was gone, but after a few mild swings with the hammer it was clear that both layers were toast. No matter, I can fix it anyway so I cut it all off. The good news is that the inside of the rocker panel is prestine dispite being filled with what can best be described as soil thats too salty and sandy to support plant life!

No proper drain holes either..... Every car or truck I have ever worked on has the same problem in one place or another. Thats why most cars rust from the inside out.

I think I'm going to unload about a gallon of undercoating paraffin wax in and under this car when its done.

As you can see, I removed the door to keep it safe and rolled down the window on the front door. I also cut a crap board panel to fill the rear door opening so that stray grinder sparks can't reach any of the glass in the car (hot steel sparks will pernimantly bond to glass, learned that the hard way)

The car's performance on paper will very good (should run rings around a stock SL1), but lots of things have to fall into place first. I hope I can pull that off, but for now its the tin bashing phase. One step at a time.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Here's a better view of what I tore apart (had to resize the image).


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

david85 said:


> Here's a better view of what I tore apart (had to resize the image).


It looks to be in very good condition compared to the 1961 Sunbeam I started working on last week.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

First layer is down on the this side.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Almost done on this side. Now comes the cosmetic part.


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## Jordan (Oct 29, 2008)

Looks like a good patch job.

I guess I have the opposite problem with cars since I live further south they always rot from the top down around here. You sure can tell the difference when they are from further up north.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah in this part of the world they rot from the inside out starting in the rockers, pillar roots and floor seams. Usually by the time you see the damage its too far gone to be worth fixing unless you know what to look for. Thats why its so important to be picky when looking for a donor.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Alright. The first layer or primer is on. The outside was simply brushed on because I need a thick layer to nicely fill the scratch and grinding marks. Something else I also did was pour primer in between the two layers of steel. 

I did this by prying apart the upper seam joint enough to pour small amounts of primer into the joint itself in several places along the length if the seam. When it started to run out at the bottom seam joint on the side of the rocker panel (you can see the primer runs on the side of the rocker panel), I taped off the bottom seam joint and kept on pouring more primer in. This helps fill up the empty space between the two layers of steel. When the primer no longer drained from the upper joint, I removed the tape at the bottom, and tapped the upper joint back together. The entire lower seam joint had primer oozing out of it by the time I was done.

I'm using a single component (reducer is optional, but no activator needed) cloverdale paint primer that has high zinc content. Its not as good as actual galvanizing, but it seems to hold up well even in salty road conditions. It also doesn't crack very easily when applied thick, which is important when pouting it in between two layers.

I can be fairly sure that this won't rust out again any time soon.

By the time I took these pictures, I already did some sanding, hence the steel showing through in some places. One or two more passes of priming and sanding and it should be ready for paint. If done right there will be no way to tell any repair was ever done here.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

The one side is nearly done and I'm satisfied with the shape. Just the final finishing left to do (will also seal the lower seam joint and sand that ugly run off before the top coat).

Started work on the other side now. Took a lot less time because I didn't waste any time trying to separate the two layers first. I just cut it all out.
You can see that this side was in better shape and aside from being ugly, wasn't really a structural problem yet. But I want this car to be good for at least another 12 years. I also don't want any imperfections showing when its done.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Surgery on the driver's side was a complete success. What I did was remove all the plastic on the driver's side including the rear quarter panel, primed in a zink rich primer, then top coated with a black satin finish industrial paint. Basically the complete side structure of the car including pillars and upper door frames are now covered with fresh paint. The original paint for that part of the car is actially a very close match to the paint I used. (the white speckles you see in some of the photos are actually just dust, not paint defects)

The rear plastic door step (one with a bite taken out of it) is now fastened with automitive urethane sealer, so no holes go through the metal anymore. The inside of the rocker panel got a good splatter spray of wax/asphalt based undercoating as well. The picture of under the car shows the lower joint between the rocker panel and the main floor panel with a thick coat of the same undercoating. There wasn't actually any major problem here, but there was some white oxide starting to show through (zinc oxide) the paint so I smothered it just to be safe. It should be good even on our salty roads for a long time to come.

I have a hard time spotting my wield joint, so I'm satisfied. Still have some paint work left on the other side, but that will have to wait since another vehicle needs my attention at the moment.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Very nice repair David. Looks professionally done.

G


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Are your batteries on the way?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

JRP3 said:


> Are your batteries on the way?


Could be, but the new years holiday got in the way. I'm waiting for confirmation on when it will be or was already shipped. Probably another few days.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

cool! keep us updated!

check your pm for something interesting i found....


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

Looking good so far ! I am lucky to live in California so I have no rust to repair . I still will need a repaint job some day . Keep up the good work !! J.W.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

ww321q said:


> Looking good so far ! I am lucky to live in California so I have no rust to repair . I still will need a repaint job some day . Keep up the good work !! J.W.


I know, keep rubbing it in! This car was originally from alberta where roads have salt for a good 6-8 months out of the year. Its not as cold in south western BC, but as soon as there is frost on the ground they start salting the roads anyway. Overall the car held its own very well all things considered.

I don't really HAVE to repaint the rest of the car, but its so small and cute compared to my fullsize trucks that I'm tempted to think I might repaint it anyway. It would be so easy to cover the whole thing.

Got caught up with other things lately, so I haven't covered the other side of the cab structure with the black yet. Hoping to finish this week.

Also looks like the rear doors are the only vulnerable part of the car for rust anyway so you should never have any problems at all with rust considering the car you have and where you live.

Still waiting to see your first drive!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Finally ready to wrap up the other side!

These are the pictures of the car cleaned, sanded and masked off ready for primer:


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

First pass of primer is on. Now comes the seam sealer on all the joints, then another light pass of primer, and finally the black top coat.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

should have got a COUGAR!!!!

LOL

lookin great

Brian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

My car will kick your car's arse any day of the week! LOL


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> My car will kick your car's arse any day of the week! LOL


that may be but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I will probably have mine DONE way before you!!!! Can't race if your in the garage

B


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

rctous said:


> Can't race if your in the garage
> 
> B


LOL, and parts still spread half way around the world!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hmm, grey primer.....grey sealer.....I hope you can see whats happening. The flash didn't seem to help either, Oh well.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I think the paint is done. I'll see tomorrow in daylight how well it turned out, but I think I'm happy.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> I think the paint is done. I'll see tomorrow in daylight how well it turned out, but I think I'm happy.


of course your happy it's freakin AWESOME nice job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah OK, I'm done.

Rust repair is complete.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Looks very good... great job. Now when is that conversion starting?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Technically its already underway. The car is stripped down, and the next thing to do is cut out the trunk floor to install the rear battery box (yet to be built. Still not sure if I should fix the fuel leak to keep the car mobile or just pull the engine....

In other news, I now have confirmation that the batteries are indeed on their way (left last week), so maybe another 2-3 weeks and I can start installing them.

I'll probably start an acutal conversion thread when it comes to dealing with the battery box.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> Technically its already underway. The car is stripped down, and the next thing to do is cut out the trunk floor to install the rear battery box (yet to be built. Still not sure if I should fix the fuel leak to keep the car mobile or just pull the engine....
> 
> In other news, I now have confirmation that the batteries are indeed on their way (left last week), so maybe another 2-3 weeks and I can start installing them.
> 
> I'll probably start an acutal conversion thread when it comes to dealing with the battery box.


If you have a motor already, I'd go ahead and pull out the ICE, etal. Personally, it was nice NOT having every single component on hand so that I could work (and think of) the job as several smaller steps. But that's just me  I have no doubt this is going to be a very interesting build to watch. Can't wait to see what sort of performance and range you end up with. As much as I like my EV, I'm really itching to sell it so I can start another build!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> As much as I like my EV, I'm really itching to sell it so I can start another build!


LOL! one car at a time..... I like the pattern you are forming.

No I don't have a motor yet. Thats the problem. Even if I did, you can't exactly run the motor off a 12V battery by connecting strait to the motor. This car will have a brushless motor on it, so it needs a brushless controller to work. I won't get the controller for several months......

But the more I think about this, the more I think the engine will get pulled. With the ICE and related crap, trans axle and interior gutted, I would guess the car weighs maybe about 1500lbs. I've pushed stuff like that around with only muscle before, so it is doable. Hell, I've pushed my 6000lb truck up over a curb with some help once....not that I want to do that again anytime soon......


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I've been pushing around my 2500lb Fiero donor, (burnt clutch), and found when I have to go over large bumps in the ground with no traction in the snow a ratchet on a lug nut with a cheater pipe makes life easier. Just make sure you're going in the tightening direction


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

A fiero is 2500lbs stock? huh, now I know.

Yeah I think the engine will just get pulled. I'm sick of looking at it with all the oil oosing out. And i really hate the smell of that leaking gasoline. Did I mention how much I hate gasoline?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

actually.. I think Fieros are more like 2600-2700lbs curb weight... they are suprisingly heavy for their size.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> actually.. I think Fieros are more like 2600-2700lbs curb weight... they are suprisingly heavy for their size.


if you ever want to know curb weight of cars just type in Google " 87 Fiero curb weight" (this willl givw you a close rough estimate as stated below by JRP3 you can also find exact weights by doing more digging) As I am looking for a donor car now a rough estimate makes it close enough to rule many of the possibilities right out without to much detail)

this is what came up.

Curb weight, 1176 kg (2590 lb) to 1265 kg (2790 lb) ... The Pontiac Fiero is a mid-engined sports car that was built by the Pontiac division of General 

it works for any car you want to check out.

B


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

It depends on the year and model: http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/MajorSpecs.htm
Between 2462 and 2735.


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