# Are chevy Volt modules still worth using in conversions?



## EVmattyP (May 12, 2019)

<subscribing for interest>

Always curious about other options. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, the old heads contribute.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

No they are terrible - you should send them all to ME for safe disposal

Seriously they are excellent - they CAN be paralleled very easily 

The only problem is the shape - not the T - the cross section they are a bit tall 

As far as energy density is concerned if you just use the modules you can save a lot of weight


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

Duncan said:


> As far as energy density is concerned if you just use the modules you can save a lot of weight


hmm, what do you mean by "just the modules"? as in, the individual blades with the bus bars removed?

also more general question: i know with the first gen volt batteries, you can "unlock" more capacity just from software, can you do the same with the second gens? supposedly it's a 14khw usable pack with an actual 18.4khw capacity, i was planning to stick two of those together for a cool 36khw


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I kept the modules as is and binned the armour plated base plate - I took the mounting parts off - hundreds of spot welds to drill out 

I'm just using the modules so software does not come into it


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

I'll emphasize one of your pros: cost. Tesla modules are what, twice as expensive per kwh? But they do seem to be coming down slowly, so that advantage is going away.


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

Duncan said:


> I kept the modules as is and binned the armour plated base plate - I took the mounting parts off - hundreds of spot welds to drill out
> 
> I'm just using the modules so software does not come into it


what do you do for a BMS, use the one that's on the batteries already and just let them "do their thing", only hooking up your high voltage lines to your motor? what about data lines from the battery to the controller, if any?


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

swoozle said:


> I'll emphasize one of your pros: cost. Tesla modules are what, twice as expensive per kwh? But they do seem to be coming down slowly, so that advantage is going away.


i may be looking in the wrong places but i was seeing ~3.5 grand for a 2016+ volt pack in good condition, at 18 kwh after unlocking, that's *$194 per kwh*

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=463&osCsid=qvo87olj969711mtssim4akef5
ev west has model s modules for $1580 per 5.3khw, so *$298 per kwh*

so, 65% more, not great. 

i wonder if there are less expensive Volt battery sources, where i could get packs for 3 grand or below?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Try Car-part.com
I paid $1800 for my volt battery

As far as BMS's are concerned - people who are smarter than me can get the factory BMS to work

I'm skeptical about aftermarket BMS's - from reading people's experience they appear to cause more problems than they solve

I'm using a 
http://www.evdl.org/pages/battbridge.html

To detect a cell failure and about twice a year I disassemble enough of my car to check the individual cells
So far so good
And I'm CRUEL to my cells - 1200 amps!

IMHO a BMS will NOT keep your battery working all it will do is tell you if a cell has died so that you can avoid overcharging the others 

And my Batt bridge will do that - and it's simple enough that I can understand it 

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...dubious-device-44370p15.html?highlight=duncan


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

unfortunately my car-part results don't look as rosy out here in california 



> 2018 Battery $4005	LKQ-Keystone- Stockton USA-CA(Stockton)
> 2018 Battery $3805	LKQ-Keystone- Stockton USA-CA(Stockton)
> 2016 Battery $3605	LKQ-Keystone- Stockton USA-CA(Stockton)
> 2018 Battery $3245	LKQ-Keystone- Central California USA-CA(Bakersfield)
> ...


big yikes

although if i go for 2012-2016 modules instead it's quite a bit cheaper.



> 2011 $2500 Nu-Way Auto Dismantling USA-CA(Wilmington)
> 2011 $2000 American Dismantling Inc. USA-CA(Fontana)
> 2012 $2000 American Dismantling Inc. USA-CA(Fontana)
> 2012 $2000 American Dismantling Inc. USA-CA(Fontana)
> ...


kinda surprised at the big price delta here
it's segmenting 2012s from 2013s-2014s for some reason though, even though i assume they're interchangeable


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Yup, I bought a couple of 1st gen packs for $2k a piece and love them. I don't think there's a big difference with the 2nd gen. Certainly not anything that justifies greater than 50% premium.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

swoozle said:


> Yup, I bought a couple of 1st gen packs for $2k a piece and love them. I don't think there's a big difference with the 2nd gen. Certainly not anything that justifies greater than 50% premium.


The biggest difference appears to be the capacity increase, with a mass decrease. Whether that is worth 50% more is another matter.

VOLT_BATTERY.pdf


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

brian_ said:


> The biggest difference appears to be the capacity increase, with a mass decrease. Whether that is worth 50% more is another matter.
> 
> https://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/microsites/product/Volt_2016/doc/VOLT_BATTERY.pdf


Your link formatting is messed up so clicking the link directly doesn't work.

To summarize,
- Pack capacity went from 16.0-17.1 to 18.4 kwh (Gen 1 had a steady increase over the 2011 to 2015 model years) or a 9% - 15% increase Gen 1 to Gen 2
- Pack mass went from 196 kg to 183 kg (unclear how much of that is the pack case versus the cell modules themselves)
- Discharge power went from 110kw to 120kw.

Another factor that weighs into using the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 packs is that the modules in the Gen 1 are 6s and 12s (7 12s and 2 6s) and the Gen 2 are 12s and 16s (4 12s and 3 16s). This could make a difference if you are shooting for a particular voltage or have difficulty integrating larger modules.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

swoozle said:


> Your link formatting is messed up so clicking the link directly doesn't work.


Sorry - usually I check links, but didn't this time. It's fixed now.



swoozle said:


> Another factor that weighs into using the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 packs is that the modules in the Gen 1 are 6s and 12s (7 12s and 2 6s) and the Gen 2 are 12s and 16s (4 12s and 3 16s). This could make a difference if you are shooting for a particular voltage or have difficulty integrating larger modules.


Yes, they're configured differently, so some of the second generation are larger and there are fewer of them (only seven modules instead of nine).


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## vauron (Sep 25, 2016)

I have a 2012 Volt battery that I'm putting in my 1981 Delorean (VIN 6673). The T-shape has 30+24 = 54x3p cells at the front and 24+18 = 42x3p cells at the back for a total of 96s3p giving a nominal 355 VDC.


If I move the front 30s3p cells to where the gas tank used to be in the Delorean's frunk, the remaining 66x3p cells at the back fit neatly where the Delorean's PRV V6 engine used to go.


There's an interesting connector between the 30sx3p and 24sx3p modules at the front. It consists of a male and female pair.


What I'd love to buy if anyone has one is that pair, so I can turn it into a six-foot cable between the three modules aft of the cabin and the one module in the frunk.


Does anyone have one that's left over after dismantling their Gen1 Volt battery?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Send us a picture of your one - I can't work out what you need from your description


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## vauron (Sep 25, 2016)

Here's a link to a picture of the connector I'm looking for.
http://clim8.stanford.edu/Gen1Connector.jpg
Actually what I need is everything that connects the rear three modules (total of 66sx3p) to the front one (30sx3p). I should probably separate them physically so as to make clearer what's needed to link them back together electrically. The plumbing part for cooling is clear.


Talking of plumbing, I'm looking for an electrically driven coolant pump suitable for this 96sx3p battery. The Bolt's pump might do; any other suggestions?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

That's not a "connector" that is a current sensor - the current goes through the flat conductor 

The power electrical connection is all though the simple flat conductors bolted at each end


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## vauron (Sep 25, 2016)

Thanks, Duncan. I knew it wasn't power, but I was thinking it might be something the modules' BMS's wanted. I'm guessing that each module operates its own BMS independently of the other three modules; if so then I should be able to use the whole 355 volts without any external management of those four BMS units (made by LG Chem?).


However I do want to maintain the battery temperature in the vicinity of 70 F (22 C) which I gather is what GM recommends for optimum performance. So access to the temperature readouts would be great. If it's just one readout per module I should be able to figure that out myself and run the four or whatever wires. What I didn't want to have to deal with was 96 wires, one for each 3p cell block.


Current plan for charging is to do it very slowly for the time being, with no regenerative braking. When I understand the temperature issues better I'll speed up charging. But I may also build a 0.1 or 0.2 megafarad KERS to handle regen, in order not to dump too much energy into the battery all at once. Still in the very preliminary thinking stage.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

You are being a bit tender on your battery

I draw 1200 amps from mine - admittedly only for a couple of seconds

As far as cooling flow is concerned I just got a small 12v water pump - you don't need that much flow - IMHO the main thing that the coolant is doing is ensuring that all of the cells are the same temperature


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## vauron (Sep 25, 2016)

Thanks again, Duncan.


As to discharging or charging a battery, time is of the essence. I'd have no problem drawing 1200 amps for a couple of seconds, which would be close to 600 HP, but I'd impressed if your pump could keep the battery cool if you kept that up for 30 seconds, which would draw down more than 12 kWh.


Currently I'm on a steep learning curve with this little power cell, whose energy capacity is about that of 50 8" sticks of dynamite. Hopefully that curve will flatten out in due course.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Comments: the cells prefer 80 degrees, deal with 100 degrees well, and way back in the volt thread we figured I was using 5hp worth of cooling here in summer time Reno. The most I pull is 600 amps for 4 minutes or so on a half voltage split pack. That saying, I have a 5 gallon tank and a small pump that does about 10 gallon a minute and all it ever did was 10 degrees higher than ambient. 

They are harder to keep warm than cool, at least for tthe 6 years I used them.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi

Can you measure internal resistance in couple of cells? I am really interested in gen 1 pack. My 2012 Ampera pack has universal Ri 2.1mohm. I would like to compare... I measured with SM8124A.

tnx


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