# [EVDL] shoddy work



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I just recieved my 6th re-do in a row this one came from a shop in NJ. 15 months in the works and is the lousiest build I have ever seen. This vehicle gos way beyond bad work, The battery cables are resting on the drive shaft, which was wearing away the insulation . the motor mounts are something out of 9th century Iran . I dont mind redoing these vehicles for people, they spent way to much ,money and time already and they would like to have a running EV. So its up to me to make it right. The point is, who the hell is showing these guys the correct way to do a conversion, You just dont put a bunch of metal in a bag, shake it and out comes a running EV ..and it gives the whole EV industry a bad name .. this really cutting into my fishing time doing all these re-dos . Thank God there out of business or soon to be gone .. 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was helping a friend debug a problem in a professional conversion. I was
really surprised by a couple of things I saw. First, the fuses for some of
the high-voltage accessory circuits (DC-DC converter, meters, etc) were 12V
blade fuses! Second, there were inputs (such as the controller Key Switch
Interlock and the DC-DC converter) that were hooked to the main contactor,
with the pre-charge resistor instead of their own relay. 

Unfortunately, this circuitry was over-driving the pre-charge resistor so
the input to the controller was only 9V before the contactor closes. So
far, the controller isn't damaged, but I'm sure it is being stressed. I'm
also not sure what is happening to the controller when it's always sinking
current in the Key Switch Interlock input. 

Parts are on the way to fix both of these issues to something much more
reliable and correct. I learned the hard way that having accessories such
as these connected through a precharge resistor is a sure way to slowly
drain your pack and keep cycling the accessories on and off.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Electric Blue auto convertions
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:19 AM
> To: ev
> Subject: [EVDL] shoddy work
> 
> I just recieved my 6th re-do in a row this one came from a shop in NJ. 15
> months in the works and is the lousiest build I have ever seen. This
vehicle
> gos way beyond bad work, The battery cables are resting on the drive
shaft,
> which was wearing away the insulation . the motor mounts are something
> out of 9th century Iran . I dont mind redoing these vehicles for people,
they
> spent way to much ,money and time already and they would like to have a
> running EV. So its up to me to make it right. The point is, who the hell
is
> showing these guys the correct way to do a conversion, You just dont put a
> bunch of metal in a bag, shake it and out comes a running EV ..and it
gives the
> whole EV industry a bad name .. this really cutting into my fishing time
doing
> all these re-dos . Thank God there out of business or soon to be gone ..
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> 
> > I just recieved my 6th re-do in a row this one came from a shop in NJ. 15 months in the works and is the lousiest build I have ever seen. This vehicle gos way beyond bad work, The battery cables are resting on the drive shaft, which was wearing away the insulation . the motor mounts are something out of 9th century Iran . I dont mind redoing these vehicles for people, they spent way to much ,money and time already and they would like to have a running EV. So its up to me to make it right. The point is, who the hell is showing these guys the correct way to do a conversion, You just dont put a bunch of metal in a bag, shake it and out comes a running EV ..and it gives the whole EV industry a bad name .. this really cutting into my fishing time doing all these re-dos . Thank God there out of business or soon to be gone ..
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Of course they had. Engines at that time had hooves ;-)
(and they did not call them engines) 


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Martin WINLOW
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] shoddy work




> Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> 
> > I just recieved my 6th re-do in a row this one came from a shop in NJ.
> 15 months in the works and is the lousiest build I have ever seen. This
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry for the dumb/ignorant question, but what is the concern with blade
fuses? If they're sized properly for the application, why are they
considered a bad choice?



> Mike Nickerson <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I was helping a friend debug a problem in a professional conversion. I was
> > really surprised by a couple of things I saw. First, the fuses for some of
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Mostly that they'll catch on fire and burn when the DC arc fails to
extinguish. IIRC, they are only rated for 32VDC, so at higher voltages,
they won't break the arc.

Z



> Mark Warner <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for the dumb/ignorant question, but what is the concern with blade
> > fuses? If they're sized properly for the application, why are they
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You need a separate small relay for the pre-charge resistor. That 
will solve the problem.

The controller can be damaged, but of more concern is possible damage 
to the main contactor. The huge in-rush current will damage the 
contacts. They may be welded shut already. Have you checked for this?

Bill D.



>Unfortunately, this circuitry was over-driving the pre-charge resistor so
>the input to the controller was only 9V before the contactor closes. So
>far, the controller isn't damaged, but I'm sure it is being stressed. I'm
>also not sure what is happening to the controller when it's always sinking
>current in the Key Switch Interlock input.
>
>Parts are on the way to fix both of these issues to something much more
>reliable and correct. I learned the hard way that having accessories such
>as these connected through a precharge resistor is a sure way to slowly
>drain your pack and keep cycling the accessories on and off.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Sorry for the dumb/ignorant question, but what is the concern with blade
> fuses? If they're sized properly for the application, why are they
> considered a bad choice?
>

The first step is choosing components (*all* components* that are within
their ratings. You *must* observe the ratings for everything, especially
fuses. Verify that the fuse is DC rated if it is being used in DC
applications. All wiring and components must be protected by a current
limiting device (fuse, breaker) that will blow/trip in the case of an
overload situation that would compromise the current-carrying ability of
the conductor or device. The current limiting device should be located as
close to the source as possible.

In some cases, it's not obvious what voltage requirements need to be
observed. For example, a battery regulator/monitor connected directly to a
single cell or battery. The cell/battery might only be 3.3 V or 12 V, so
you think a 12 V rated fuse will be sufficient. However, if the cell being
monitored/regulated opens under load, the regulator could be subjected to
the full pack voltage. This sort of situation can get tricky in determining
the right components.

In many cases, proper fuse selection involves knowing very specific details
about the system, e.g. inductance will play a role in the fuses ability to
open within the prescribed time frame (or open at all).

I don't profess to be a fusing expert, but the very least one can do
without being any sort of an expert is observe ratings!

-Ryan
-- 
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[email protected]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mike Nickerson wrote:
> > I was helping a friend debug a problem in a professional conversion.
> > I was really surprised by a couple of things I saw...
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee

I know the converters involved in this case. They are a qualified category
1. They are well meaning and naive but actually do.their best to.help when
things go wrong (at least within their limited ability to do so).

Peter Flipsen


> "Lee Hart" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Mike Nickerson wrote:
> > > I was helping a friend debug a problem in a professional conversion.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Re: [EVDL] shoddy work

Here's an illustration of why not to use 12V blade fuses on a HV circuit....


http://www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/2011/09/1000-amps-vs-30-amp-fuse.html

Guiltily Y'Alls, 
Jay


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The contactor is still working (opening and closing), but I haven't checked
the contacts.

Mike


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Bill Dube
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 8:36 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] shoddy work
> 
> You need a separate small relay for the pre-charge resistor. That will
solve
> the problem.
> 
> The controller can be damaged, but of more concern is possible damage to
> the main contactor. The huge in-rush current will damage the contacts.
They
> may be welded shut already. Have you checked for this?
> 
> Bill D.
> 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jay Donnaway wrote
> 
> Re: [EVDL] shoddy work
> 
> Here's an illustration of why not to use 12V blade fuses on a HV
> circuit....
> 
> 
> http://www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/2011/09/1000-amps-vs-30-amp-fuse.html
> 
> Guiltily Y'Alls, 
> Jay
> 
> 

You're guilty of something else, too - not using a proper fuseholder for the
fuse. Bolting it to the contactor, and, presumably, a cable on the other
end, puts stress on the housing that may cause it to rupture should it blow.
Or even fall apart in normal operation from vibration. You have to bolt
those big fuses down!


--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/shoddy-work-tp4587453p4593788.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeffrey Jenkins wrote:
> > You're guilty of something else, too - not using a proper fuseholder for the
> > fuse. Bolting it to the contactor, and, presumably, a cable on the other
> > end, puts stress on the housing that may cause it to rupture should it blow.
> ...


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