# Has Anyone Successfully Controlled A DC Motor With Prius Gen 2 Inverter?



## CapCarCap (Feb 1, 2021)

I know there was a board designed to use the gen 2 prius inverter as the power stage of a dc motor controller (Prius-Gen-2-Inverter/DC_Controller at master · damienmaguire/Prius-Gen-2-Inverter) but has anyone gotten it to work yet?


----------



## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

Open ReVolt (Cougar) Controller - 300MPG.org
may be a different board?
Later floyd
ps I haven't but there are folks that have gotten to use the prius 2nd gen inverter as a dc controller


----------



## CapCarCap (Feb 1, 2021)

Who?


----------



## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

I don't know personally but search for Paul and Sabrina controller. Here is one link P&S Controller Kit Build, Start to Finish
later floyd


----------



## CapCarCap (Feb 1, 2021)

That’s the Open ReVolt controller, I want to figure out how to use the gen 2 prius inverter as a dc motor controller power stage.


----------



## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

opps sorry I could of sworn it used the Prius inverter as the basis of the controller You are right. I know I have seen the Prius inverter being used as a dc controller just not sure where.
Later floyd


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

The Open ReVolt / P&S / Paul & Sabrina controller predates reverse engineering Prius's by like, a decade.

This was back when, to get a powerful speed controller, you had to just build one from scratch.

No one does this anymore. I don't think Johannes even ordered any new OpenInverter boards of his own design after the last batch sold out. It's exclusively brain boards for existing hardware now.

Name of the game is reusing OEM EV components, or, slumming it up with OEM Hybrid components.

Multiple people have gotten Damien's Prius Gen 2 --> DC Controller design to work. Also, EV8 maybe took this original spec and upgraded it a bunch into his own design, which he hasn't had time to document over the last 6 months (he's moved onto an AC setup, but he threw like 300+HP at his DC rig just fine, so it definitely works).

Here's Damien's, he doesn't sell the DC boards anymore after his first test run (million projects on the go), but it's all open source: Prius-Gen-2-Inverter/DC_Controller at master · damienmaguire/Prius-Gen-2-Inverter


----------



## CapCarCap (Feb 1, 2021)

Yeah, I've been following the Prius DC Motor Controller project on Open Inverter (Prius Gen2 Inverter DC Motor Controller - openinverter forum). I was just hoping someone over here knew something we didn't.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> The Open ReVolt / P&S / Paul & Sabrina controller predates reverse engineering Prius's by like, a decade.
> 
> This was back when, to get a powerful speed controller, you had to just build one from scratch.
> 
> ...


Matt 
How much power can the Prius Inverter handle??
I would love to get another one of the P&S IGBT DC controllers - 
I think I have enough data to build the High power bit But I don't have a clue about the brain board


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Duncan said:


> How much power can the Prius Inverter handle??


Slightly more with each generation.

Priuses have 2 motors in them, (one generally called the "generator" that is 2/3 the size of the one called the "motor", but they're both called "motor-generators"), so they have 2 inverters built into the inverter box. Actually, there's also a 1-wire initialize ~100A DC-DC converter, a several-tens-of-kW buck/boost converter (desogned as a 200v into 500v boost, which has been repurposed as a battery charger), and an aircon inverter (no one's reverse engineered properly yet, except maybe as a charger) as well.

The Gen 2 inverters have 1200v IGBTs on them, but I'm not sure about supporting components. They've been tested to run at 600v, so I'd consider that a healthy ceiling. MG2 (the big motor/inverter) has been tested to handle 350A, and MG1 has been tested to handle 250A. So, ~600v and ~600A combined. Everything is idiotproof and fails gracefully. You overvolt it, the inverter just shuts down. You overcurrent it, it just shuts down. If you overtemp it, it just shuts down. Lots of guys are picking up Gen2's for like, $50. I think I paid $150 and I'm on the highest end from what I've heard.

The Gen2 as a DC speed controller has seen very little development, but apparently does work: Prius-Gen-2-Inverter/DC_Controller at master · damienmaguire/Prius-Gen-2-Inverter . EV8 built a better one but hasn't documented it yet.

The wikis are a bit sloppy, they grew out of a single board, into a general description of the inverters, into a kind of loose pool of everything: Toyota Prius Gen2 Board - openinverter.org wiki

The Gen 3 inverters are about 30% more powerful. The MG2 is tested to 500A. I haven't seen anyone test the MG1, but if the ratio with the Gen2s hold, it should be good for 350A. So, 850A total. Toyota Prius Gen3 Board - openinverter.org wiki ... Gen3s are a little more pricey and, actually a little more failure prone so, be a little more careful that you're not buying a dud.

Damien used to have several Gen3 boards, but I think has coalesced into just the one now? Or maybe there's a dual-motor version as well? He used to have a through-hole Gen 2 board, but this is deprecated now with the development of Johannes' Gen 2 kit.

Far as I know no one's built a DC board for the Gen3s.

Biggest difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 operation-wise is that Gen2s have built in dead-time and are more idiotproof (but, less versatile for charger use, I think, because you don't have control over the deadtime). The Gen 3 you have to set a deadtime (or you blow it up), but this gives it more you can do with it (which no one has implemented yet).


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

The magic of the P&S was Pauls software solution, the power section was a working kludge which he failed constantly until all the errors were ironed out, back in the day. it probably will run on a Raspberry pi.

Dead time? You mean the time between switching off and on opposite IGBTS?


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> Dead time? You mean the time between switching off and on opposite IGBTS?


Yes, I think so.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Slightly more with each generation.
> 
> Priuses have 2 motors in them, (one generally called the "generator" that is 2/3 the size of the one called the "motor", but they're both called "motor-generators"), so they have 2 inverters built into the inverter box. Actually, there's also a 1-wire initialize ~100A DC-DC converter, a several-tens-of-kW buck/boost converter (desogned as a 200v into 500v boost, which has been repurposed as a battery charger), and an aircon inverter (no one's reverse engineered properly yet, except maybe as a charger) as well.
> 
> ...


So 500 amps then ?


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Duncan said:


> So 500 amps then ?


350+ 250 = 600amps

I think it gracefully shuts itself down.

Now, could it sustain that? Well, as long as you could get rid of the heat quick enough. And it is liquid cooled.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> 350+ 250 = 600amps
> 
> I think it gracefully shuts itself down.
> 
> Now, could it sustain that? Well, as long as you could get rid of the heat quick enough. And it is liquid cooled.


Not a useful replacement for a 1200 amp P&S controller! - and I want MORE!


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Duncan said:


> Not a useful replacement for a 1200 amp P&S controller! - and I want MORE!


Every once and a while a SHIVA comes up in the classifieds. That should be enough, maybe.


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Duncan said:


> Not a useful replacement for a 1200 amp P&S controller! - and I want MORE!


Isn't your Super7 DC powered and used for 1/8 mile drags?

Pfft. Here, here's your 5000 amp controller:


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I seriously doubt that will switch 5000 amps more than once. Maybe twice at 1 1/2 volt since the arc wont be as bad


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Look closely. That is a 15 amp wall switch with a 3d printed knife actuator, lol


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

remy_martian said:


> Look closely. That is a 15 amp wall switch with a 3d printed knife actuator, lol


So what part of my comment was incorrect then?


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

It wouldn't do it once


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

You will get current flow for the milliseconds that it lasts before erupting in a mass of plasma or electron flow equivalent. Nobody specified the ON time duration.


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

In any case, it would be a fun "on" switch for an EV


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

That's basically what the Citicars had. 3 speeds, various voltages and resistor banks. And, on older forklifts, that's what mashing the pedal to the end does, bypasses the speed controller and connects batteries to motor directly.


----------



## GE11 (Oct 24, 2011)

Tell you also.....

Im looking for a 1000 amp controller also...I thought with all the IGBTs in parallel in the Prius Gen 2 they would do 1000 amps..


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

1000 amps continuous or peak?


----------



## GE11 (Oct 24, 2011)

peak..


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

GE11 said:


> peak..


600amps (350a on MG2, 250a on MG1) before they trigger a graceful shutdown. Or, ditto for temperature.

Otherwise, plow away so long as you can keep them cool enough.


----------



## GE11 (Oct 24, 2011)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> 600amps (350a on MG2, 250a on MG1) before they trigger a graceful shutdown. Or, ditto for temperature.
> 
> Otherwise, plow away so long as you can keep them cool enough.


 But is this for the DC verision? I though all these IGBTs were in Parallel? I there are there High side IGBTS for MG1 and three High side mosfets for MG2... I thought putting all these together gave us over a grand...(1000 amps).


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"so long as you can keep them cool enough"

In an inverter, the IGBT phase legs are not always on like they would almost be in a high duty cycle PWM DC motor controller. To further complicate it, you'd only be using the high side or the low side of each phase leg, doubling the power dissipation in those devices.


----------

