# Wanting to do an Insight Conversion



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

http://www.evalbum.com/4396
http://www.evalbum.com/461

" SEARCH " is your friend


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## dgriz13 (Aug 4, 2012)

The first one (http://www.evalbum.com/4396) does not have batteries in it so that is not useful.
The second one (http://www.evalbum.com/461) is "with 9 year old Hawkers" not with his LiIon batteries.


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

The problem with converting a first generation Insight is that the car is so incredibly efficient as it is. You have about 365lbs to play with over stock curb weight to stay under the GVWR- including two human beings. 

The powerplant and original battery system are small, the fuel tank is tiny, and its just very hard to get weight out of it. Every part is done and placed incredibly well. Reliable rumors are that Honda lost $14k on every car, and there's lots of extremely good and unique engineering built into the design. Still, if you like a challenge, its a hell of a glider. 

For a short range runabout, with A123 or prismatic cells, it would be a cool conversion. Unfortunately, the Insight is still the king of hyperefficiency gas-burners, and a high water mark in automotive development that hasn't been eclipsed in more than 20 years. Taking one on as an EV conversion is therefore kind of like trying to convert a Patek Philippe watch to a quartz movement: its possible, but you're hacking into something that's in the ionosphere of integrated engineering and execution just as it sits. 

By all means, though, have at it. If you have one with a dead motor or blown IMA system, there's really no downside to trying...


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi,

As an alternative to the Insight you might look at a 2nd generation Honda CRX. They are fairly similar cars, if you can find one that's clean and in reasonable shape. They are are lots of fun to drive, pretty good cars, and have a low drag coefficient.


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## EVPowers (May 17, 2012)

For less money you can simply swap the stock pack with a higher capacity a123 pack. 50 cells. Make this pack so that you can plug it in. Then add in MIMA kit, which gives you manual control over all assist and regen. While it won't be a full ev, it will be a 100+ mpg vehicle and cost far less than a full ev.
It's been done already so it is feasible.


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## dgriz13 (Aug 4, 2012)

EVPowers said:


> For less money you can simply swap the stock pack with a higher capacity a123 pack. 50 cells. Make this pack so that you can plug it in. Then add in MIMA kit, which gives you manual control over all assist and regen. While it won't be a full ev, it will be a 100+ mpg vehicle and cost far less than a full ev.
> It's been done already so it is feasible.


That sounds interesting. How much do you think it cost to swap the stock pack and to add the MIMA kit? Where can I get the higher capacity a123 pack(~50 cells) at? Also what is the approximate life range of the a123 battery pack?


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

EV Insight with a Prius heart:

http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/evinsight/


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## EVPowers (May 17, 2012)

You could build the pack yourself, as well as the associated electronics for the pack for under 5k. MIMA would be another 1K or so. 
I can get you the cells to get you started.
There is one guy who has been running this setup for over two years so far maintenance-free. 
I can chat more about it on the phone tomorrow if you want. 608-729-4082.
I own an Insight with MIMA and a 2kwh supplementary lithium pack.


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## EVPowers (May 17, 2012)

If you are serious about the project, I found someone with a used MIMA system that he never installed that has some extras for ~$1,100 including shipping.

Where are you located?

I've done many PHEV and MIMA installs. I can help get you on the right trtack.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm going to be converting my Insight, I'm figuring about 60 pounds of gas, losing the exhaust, power electronics, IMA battery, engine, etc. and adding a controller and reasonably sized motor will probably pull about 200 pounds from the car. 400 pounds of LiFePO4 batteries is a little bit shy of 20kwh. So you'd be about 200 pounds over stock so essentially your 2290lbs GVWR and 1878lbs stock weight plus 200 lbs over stock leaves you with 212 pounds of payload capacity. It works for me and FWIW, I drove my car with a 400+ pound passenger in the past plus my own weight, it drove fine and I don't see much issue as far as a daily driver is concerned if you aren't going to be over the GWVR outside of a rare case.

...but 20kwh of cells, giving you 160wh/mile at 60mph on a good day where it's warm/hot without using air conditioning, without wind, etc. would be 125 miles but you'd be driving the car to nothing, which is what you do not want to do. Of course in the winter, aerodynamics are worse, wind is higher, driving through snowy roads and you are using significantly more power to travel at 60mph. I don't think going over 100 miles with an Insight conversion using LiFePO4 is the way to go, especially when it is a situation where you are going to need to do so in the daily driver sense where you want to use the car in any condition. My pack will be 100 60Ah(19.2kwh) cells with a Soliton Jr and the higher voltage Kostov 9 motor. I plan to drive from my house in the Twin Cities area to Rochester, MN just to say I did it and that's a little over 100 miles and there are J1772 stations that I would charge with for me to make the trip back but most of the time I will probably stick to round trips under 80 miles as that should keep me above 30% SOC and allow me some comfort in case I make a wrong turn or encounter a detour or lots of wind along the way.

My project is mostly planned out, waiting on money at this point but I expect to be rolling before the weather gets cold next year. I'm going to try to get the motor soon to get the motor and transmission mated as this is one of the tougher parts to a conversion since there are no decent companies selling an adapter for this car. I have a feeling that if I get the motor and transmission mated and in the car I'm going to be looking to move much faster on the project but I really don't want to work on the car in my uninsulated garage with burning tons of money through my propane heater to get things done so most of this will likely be starting next spring.

If you are willing to give up a little range you can have a car that uses less energy to drive down the road than a Leaf, iMiev, Focus EV, Fit EV, Tesla, etc. and I'm not certain there are any highway capable electric cars out there that could compete with the efficiency of a converted 1st Gen Insight. You also get the advantage of having electric power steering already in the car and a fairly decent space where the IMA battery and power electronics are in the back with a plastic tunnel under the car for the battery cables to go on the way to the front. The efficiency allows for a smaller and therefore lower cost battery. Unfortunately for 150 miles of range you'll have issues with weight and you'd need to pick a car that can handle the extra weight which will then need to be an even bigger battery due to the higher aerodynamic drag such a car would entail, money becomes a bigger issue.

As a gas car, it's a cheap drive for sure. I've gotten three tanks over 800 miles with two of them being over 80mpg. I've driven from Madison and back last month at over 80mpg driving carefully and in perfect conditions without using a/c but not angering other drivers. I drove to Detroit, Michigan and around in town a bit and filled up just under 10 gallons going 750 miles and made the trip home stopping in Madison, WI and got home using just under 10 gallons too. Getting and using MIMA, learning how to drive efficiently with lean-burn and either going the PHEV route with a replacement pack or an add on pack should net you even better MPG within the limits of the battery capacity. I considered going the PHEV route and either using 50 20Ah A123 cells or a pack of 40Ah prismatic cells but decided to ditch the gas and use my other Insight for the out of state trips or trips up to northern MN and do everything else with electric.

My 2 cents
Hope this helps


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## EVPowers (May 17, 2012)

MN Driver,
I assume you are doing this with a 5-speed.
*Any thoughts as to whether it would be possible with a CVT?*
I have a CVT here with a blown engine. The rest is in good condition, though.

Also, I assume you've seen this web site http://www.ev.whitecape.org/insight/ about another guy who did an a electric conversion. Has some good specs on an adapter, etc.


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## EVPowers (May 17, 2012)

I've answered my own question by doing a bit more searching on Insightcentral.
CVT looks a bit to daunting. Better to go with manual.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I think a manual is ideal, if the CVT is controlled by various load and pressure parameters to vary the speed outside of WOT, I think it would be very tricky to trick it into thinking an engine is there, which is the struggle of converting most cars that were designed in the last 10 years or so based on the experience of people here and the people at my local EAA EV club. I think it might be the best to get an engine into that car, sell it, and then buy and convert a 5-speed. With the 5-speed there seems to be little needing to be tricked and there are a few other tricks that I keep silent about this car because I'd hate for people to be harvesting junkyard parts for non-Insight uses. Oddly enough the high voltage specific part I really would like to work isn't compatible with my conversion due to voltage that I'm using in my conversion.

As far as Gary and his Insight is concerned, the pictures on his site and experience are valuable. He has power draw on his EV Album page and the pictures on his site show the gas tank cavity and IMA compartment cavity which is hard to imagine the size with the IMA components inside the car. Gary, however doesn't respond to emails asking about his car and his site and EV album hasn't been updated in a long time. He has pictures of lithium cells on the EV Album but no explanation of why there is no info about them being installed or his experience. His AC motor and adapter don't apply to my conversion since I'm keeping my clutch and I've actually already have a flywheel adapter in hand and will need to design the rest of the adapter and have a person willing to help me with it. I won't be able to thank him enough for his help with getting the motor and transmission mated.

I'm hoping Gary will come back and say something about his car at least somewhere on the web but my hopes aren't high as I'm not the only one who has tried to get in contact with him. Lost to the world IMHO. My goal is to get as much of my conversion on the web with pictures and hopefully videos of the process and more importantly my experience with converting the car and how it performs. I'm thinking with the components that I'm putting in that this car will be a little rocket when I'm done in comparison to its current performance, which is reasonable enough stock but I expect will be much more fun when I'm finished.


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