# HSBC Forecasts Global Oil to Run Out By 2060



## punisher454 (Apr 16, 2011)

Using SPV accounting practices we will always be about 50 years from "running out", Its BS coming from both sides and screwing the consumer in the middle.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

It is all B.S. when you deal in Politics; however, no one has been "screwed" except America (in having been prevented from drilling).

Gas prices are the same as they've been for 90 years. Please stop repeating this silly political talking point.

Gas prices adjusted for inflation. Does not include gas taxes, so prices are actually lower.


----------



## cbliss (Jun 28, 2010)

PhantomPholly said:


> Gas prices are the same as they've been for 90 years. Please stop repeating this silly political talking point.
> 
> Gas prices adjusted for inflation. Does not include gas taxes, so prices are actually lower.


That chart has not been updated recently. Gas is now over $4 / gal. It was interesting to see the adjusted impact of the 1918 shortage.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

cbliss said:


> That chart has not been updated recently. Gas is now over $4 / gal. It was interesting to see the adjusted impact of the 1918 shortage.


Well you make my point perfectly. At $4 / gallon it's still on the chart, and that is not accounting for the inflation of the past two years (which put it WELL within the chart's range). Too, if you subtract the $0.40 / gal in taxes that did not used to be on the gas when the chart started the price is only about 2/3 what it used to be.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

PhantomPholly said:


> Gas prices adjusted for inflation. Does not include gas taxes, so prices are actually lower.


The problem with adjusting for inflation is that gas prices are a primary cause of inflation. As gas goes up, the price for everything else goes up because our country is built on 18 wheelers.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> The problem with adjusting for inflation is that gas prices are a primary cause of inflation. As gas goes up, the price for everything else goes up because our country is built on 18 wheelers.


Did you get that from Nancy Pelosi?

There is a small problem with your assessment - I know it's logic and all and Libs don't care for that, but if gas prices going up caused inflation wouldn't gas prices going up cause gas prices to go up?


----------



## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

PhantomPholly said:


> Did you get that from Nancy Pelosi?
> 
> There is a small problem with your assessment - I know it's logic and all and Libs don't care for that, but if gas prices going up caused inflation wouldn't gas prices going up cause gas prices to go up?



Fuel companies have all the FREE fuel they need to distribute the oil and fuel around the globe. We the consumer pay for that too. 

That is not what he is saying. My cost for gas to bring a product to market goes up. I the business refuse to pay the rise in fuel prices so I pass it along to the customer forcing them to pay. So not only does the consumer pay at the pump they pay at the store as well. So in effect we are paying the fuel bills of the businesses. The only ones really making a profit are the oil companies. Our world runs off oil so they have the world by the balls. 

Does your business eat the cost of fuel when it goes up. Hardly. It's the consumer. There will be a point where it won't work any longer but they are in my opinion getting as much profit as possible before it really runs out. There is an end to all this madness. I just don't want to fund it along the way any longer. But alas I must pay my part whether I like it or not. I will do the least as possible. 

Pete


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

PhantomPholly said:


> Did you get that from Nancy Pelosi?
> 
> There is a small problem with your assessment - I know it's logic and all and Libs don't care for that, but if gas prices going up caused inflation wouldn't gas prices going up cause gas prices to go up?


No, I got that from common sense and observation of the real world. Rising gas prices caused the entire economic crash, something that was reported in the media on few occasions before being swept under the rug. In just a few short years gas doubled in price, causing all food and other items to nearly double also. People were faced with the option of paying for gas to get to work and food to eat, or keeping up with their mortgage, and many fell behind, triggering a collapse of the housing market.

Yes, unfortunately, rising gas prices do cause gas prices to go up. It's all based on speculation, there's no supply/demand variables that change in a short time frame. That's what I was pointing out in your argument, where you indicate that after normalizing for all variation, gas prices have stayed the same. The same could be said for anything else.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Fuel companies have all the FREE fuel they need to distribute the oil and fuel around the globe. We the consumer pay for that too.


Not really true - the refineries are different than the oil producers. True there is overlap in the ownership among shareholders, but as companies they still have to record the sale each way and count it as expense, revenue, profit, or loss. And, since they still mark up for themselves (ask anyone in corporate America if a "fellow subsidiary" will "give" them anything?) then it gets taxed by whatever country the transaction happens in.



> That is not what he is saying. My cost for gas to bring a product to market goes up. I the business refuse to pay the rise in fuel prices so I pass it along to the customer forcing them to pay. So not only does the consumer pay at the pump they pay at the store as well. So in effect we are paying the fuel bills of the businesses. The only ones really making a profit are the oil companies. Our world runs off oil so they have the world by the balls.


Yes, it is absolutely true that virtually every product has not only a component of labor but also a component of energy. I wasn't poking fun at that. What I WAS saying is that energy is not the largest component of costs, and even with rising prices for energy is really still relatively immaterial for most products. It is not driving inflation.

Does your business eat the cost of fuel when it goes up. Hardly. It's the consumer. There will be a point where it won't work any longer but they are in my opinion getting as much profit as possible before it really runs out. There is an end to all this madness. I just don't want to fund it along the way any longer. But alas I must pay my part whether I like it or not. I will do the least as possible. 

Pete [/QUOTE]

Yep, I get it. We are talking a matter of degree. Yes, gas prices hurt. All the more reason to push for alternatives. But, if we want to talk to the BIG costs driving inflation, we need to look at the big expenses. Right now, that is Government over-spending and over-printing of our currency and refusal to allow us to drill domestically. It isn't the Arabs or the Russians or the Chinese - this is virtually all self-inflicted pain.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> No, I got that from common sense and observation of the real world. Rising gas prices caused the entire economic crash, something that was reported in the media on few occasions before being swept under the rug.


So, you DID get it from Nancy Pelosi (and the Liberal media machine).

Oil did not cause the economic crash. It wasn't even a significant factor. If you really want to understand the actual and immediate reasons for the crash, read:
The Housing Boom and Bust: Revised Edition by Thomas Sowell (Feb 23, 2010).
Note, too, that had our government not been over their heads in debt and had they not encouraged Wall Street to gamble excessively (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, The Clinton "Community Reinvestment Act" fraud) that the result would have been merely a dip, not a Depression.

By the way, the reason those "news stories" you mentioned that disappeared so quickly? Even the MSM cannot continue to push untrue stories for long periods of time without causing a decline in their readership. They tell and sensationalize, then drop and murmur excuses that they had "bad sources" but make no real attempt to correct their intentional lies, leaving people who do not follow up on the story believing the first lie they heard. It is entirely intentional, and in support of their political agenda. For the record, the hard Right does the same thing, too - but lacks the massive propaganda machinery the Left has built up since Woodrow Wilson to fool as many people.



> In just a few short years gas doubled in price, causing all food and other items to nearly double also. People were faced with the option of paying for gas to get to work and food to eat, or keeping up with their mortgage, and many fell behind, triggering a collapse of the housing market.


I have neither the time nor inclination to provide a full education in economics. However, I will provide a single example that might help you better understand the true drivers of food prices.

Since government mandated use of ethanol, corn prices have skyrocketed an order of magnitude out of proportion to increasing fuel prices (e.g. impact of oil prices = +1; impact of regulation +10). Corn is not only the single largest food staple in the world, it is also used to feed beef and other livestock used for food - so if corn prices double, beef doubles. Corn PRODUCTS are also used in an immense variety of foods (corn starch, vegetable oil).

It is the COMPETITION for corn caused by Government Regulation, not Big Oil, that caused corn prices to rise so dramatically and thus impacted other foodstuffs heavily. Remove the mandate for ethanol in gas, and food prices will decline EVEN WITH MORE EXPENSIVE GAS.



> Yes, unfortunately, rising gas prices do cause gas prices to go up. It's all based on speculation, there's no supply/demand variables that change in a short time frame. That's what I was pointing out in your argument, where you indicate that after normalizing for all variation, gas prices have stayed the same. The same could be said for anything else.


Speculation works both ways. Absent artificially limited supplies, supply would go up and price would go down and all the people who bought high-priced futures on oil will lose their shirts (and thus be unable to invest so heavily in oil futures again, preventing another bubble).

I am registered Independent. For over 50 years both the "Right" and the "Left" have been simply different dresses for "Bigger Government." The "Right" shows an inclination to TALK about restraint, but does not follow through.

Apparently, until enough people feel enough poverty they will never understand that only freedom breeds prosperity.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

The Fed is the primary force responsible for inflation. As stated, the housing bubble was the cause of the economic crisis. The rise in gas prices were a symptom, not a cause.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

rochesterricer said:


> The Fed is the primary force responsible for inflation. As stated, the housing bubble was the cause of the economic crisis. The rise in gas prices were a symptom, not a cause.


Ah...so symptoms come before causes. Gotcha. Exxon besting Walmart for top revenue for the first time ever shortly before the crash was a mere coincidence. OPEXXON got greedy and tried to take more than our economic system could support. Everything crashed. They got scared and prices fell, but much damage was done and hybrids/electrics are now here to stay. 

Yes wallstreet is corrupt and lending is a mess, but that could have gone on for quite some time. The bubble burst because people couldn't keep paying all their bills.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Ah...so symptoms come before causes. Gotcha. Exxon besting Walmart for top revenue for the first time ever shortly before the crash was a mere coincidence. OPEXXON got greedy and tried to take more than our economic system could support. Everything crashed. They got scared and prices fell, but much damage was done and hybrids/electrics are now here to stay.
> 
> Yes wallstreet is corrupt and lending is a mess, but that could have gone on for quite some time. The bubble burst because people couldn't keep paying all their bills.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Ah...so symptoms come before causes. Gotcha.


Our Government has been printing new money for a long time as one of their mechanisms to cover both an unbalanced budget and an imbalance of trade. Ultimately "all of the above" lead to inflation, and to say that because prices did not rise precisely at the moment any given large transaction in that area occurred that somehow therefore the result was not due is simply ridiculous.



> Exxon besting Walmart for top revenue for the first time ever shortly before the crash was a mere coincidence.


Absolutely not. Big Government has promoted oil by restricting new drilling, to Exxon's direct benefit. The Obama administration despises WalMart because it is not Unionized, and laws such as Obamacare destroy profitability of all companies not "politically favored." No, there are no coincidences when government is improperly involved in business - just unintended consequences.



> OPEXXON got greedy and tried to take more than our economic system could support. Everything crashed. They got scared and prices fell, but much damage was done and hybrids/electrics are now here to stay.


Oil prices being driven up by speculation has only one effect - reduction in consumption, and the inevitable re-stabilization of marginal price (the current immediate price for one additional unit at today's prices) at a different level. Those who speculated either make or lose money - but it doesn't topple economies or governments. And, as I pointed out above, despite all of their mechanizations oil remains remarkably close to historical norms. What a surprise, the law of Supply and Demand still works...

The U.S. Government started allowing Banks to do several things in the wake of the Clinton "Community Reinvestment Act" (quotes to emphasize that it had NOTHING to do with actual investment and everything to do with promising free homes to people who could not afford them). One was to allow banks to bundle (disguise) bad loans and sell them as "Derivative Instruments." It was, point blank, a scam made legal by your pals in government. But, people TRUSTED the U.S. Regulators not to lie to them about the quality of "approved" instruments, and the result was that immense amounts of money flowed into these Ponzis on the promise of unrealistic returns. The result of government legalizing gambling and lying about it? Iceland went from being a leading world banking power to insolvent overnight, and much of Europe needed a bailout.



> Yes wallstreet is corrupt and lending is a mess, but that could have gone on for quite some time. The bubble burst because people couldn't keep paying all their bills.


It isn't Wall Street's job to prevent Theft and Fraud - it is Wall Street's job to help facilitate business. Only when Government perverts their legitimate and ethical purpose (preventing harm, theft, fraud, and coercion) does legitimate business turn into a gambling house.


----------

