# [EVDL] washington state EV tax



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My issue with the flat fee (tax), is that it penalizes those who have
invested in multiple EV's, such as myself. I own 8 EV's. I drive less than
6,000 miles per year total among them. My roadster has 750 miles total on
the odometer from 1995 til now. What is being suggested is that I pay $800
per year to drive less than 6,000 miles. Perhaps if I sold 6 of them and
only drove my favorite 2, it might be a bit more palatable, but as a
supporter of the EV movement from the mid 1990's, I just have a hard time
believing that this is the best approach.
Bear in mind that there are less than 1,000 registered electric vehicles in
Washington State at this time, and that the state just spent several
thousand dollars on a campaign to attract the Nissan Leaf to our region.
THIS BILL SEEKS TO RAISE $100,000! Is this amount worth the negative nation
attention? How long does $100,000 last in the DOT budget? Take a look at the
signs at any highway project that proclaim the the amount being spent on the
lane widening, our sidewalk improvement. I have never seen one that listed
an amount less than $500,000, have you?
My point is, is this fee worth enacting if it only raises one day's worth of
spending, considering the nationwide ridicule & political fallout? I doubt
it!

Tom True
Co-Founder of EV Parts, Inc



> Michael Clark <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > lets look at a car that drives 10000 miles a year. the prius which accounts
> > for I suggest 2 percent of cars on the road, i could be grossly wrong
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry, but I'm going to disagree with you on several accounts :

1. it's unlikely that, for the next several years, most EV drivers will
attain 10K miles/yr. That would include a number of road trips, trips
fishing, skiing, etc., that exceed 100 mile range. Pick a smaller number.

2. Leave the sales tax out of this issue. As far as I know, the $100 tax
proposal is exclusively to replace the road portion of the gas tax.

3. 25m/g is a current technology. A prius may be on the upper end, but
we're moving to higher effeciency vehicles, even if they are still ICE
based. We need to compare to a target number where we'll be a few years
from now when the number of EVs will be (hopefully) significant. A number
of 40 or 50m/g seems reasonable to me.

Therefore, I conclude, that $100 is roughly double what is fair.

I respect the privacy issues of a GPS. I would think open-source software
that simply records the miles travelled would be one way to use a GPS for
mileage tracking. Not sure how that would be administered, but some sort of
audit with the GPS logger manufacture could be possible. Auto manufactures
or retrofitters could then buy from these trusted sources.

Peri


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Michael Clark
Sent: 24 February, 2011 3:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] washington state EV tax

lets look at a car that drives 10000 miles a year. the prius which accounts
for I suggest 2 percent of cars on the road, i could be grossly wrong
however. lets take the typical car that get 25 miles per gallon. they buy
400 gallons per year. they pay 150 dollars a year. drive 8000 miles. 120
per year.

the prius pays 75 dollars in tax at 10,000 miles, 12 dollars in sales tax.
$87.00

so can an EV drive 10000 miles a year? sure it can. thats 28 miles per day.

If I had an EV I would drive it everyday all day  but surely 28 miles per
day average. I drive my gas car more than that.

there has to be a way to pay road tax. Our roads are falling apart.

also consider if your EV is 4000 to 5000 pounds your heavy EV is wearing the
road a bit more.

I just think its fair. Would you rather they put in GPS and taxed you that
way? Thats the way Oregon wants to do for all cars.

they got the law passed for trucks to have a gps in them but got defeated in
court but they are slowly working it back into every cab of every truck.

I think its a happy compromise, but of course I would want to see a set
number of years the tax could not be increased.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

GPS is way overkill for this. Why not just plug into the OBDII stream, or 
intercept the speedo pulses, or put a magnet on a driveshaft or axle.




________________________________
From: Peri Hartman <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 4:36:50 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] washington state EV tax

... I respect the privacy issues of a GPS. I would think open-source software 
that simply records the miles travelled would be one way to use a GPS for 
mileage tracking. Not sure how that would be administered, but some sort of 
audit with the GPS logger manufacture could be possible. Auto manufactures or 
retrofitters could then buy from these trusted sources.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is one very salient point that you have (nearly) all missed regarding=
the =

flat fee. This is a state tax for state highwaypurposes. State routes=
here are =

all 40+ mile per hour roads.

Local streets are paid for by local property taxes. NEV's are limited in=
our =

state to 35 MPH max. NEV's can therefore only use the local streets. =
The state =

should not even be taxing them as vehicles as they do not use the state roa=
ds. =

Makes as much sense as putting an airport runway tax on baby carriages.

Roger

GPS is way overkill for this. Why not just plug into the OBDII stream, or =

intercept the speedo pulses, or put a magnet on a driveshaft or axle.




________________________________
From: Peri Hartman <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 4:36:50 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] washington state EV tax

... I respect the privacy issues of a GPS. I would think open-source sof=
tware =

that simply records the miles travelled would be one way to use a GPS for =

mileage tracking. Not sure how that would be administered, but some sort=
of =

audit with the GPS logger manufacture could be possible. Auto manufactur=
es or =

retrofitters could then buy from these trusted sources.


=

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________________________________

From: David Dymaxion <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 4:15:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] washington state EV tax



=

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Probably because someone will think that they are missing out on taxes
from "visiting" EV drivers since they won't know when a state line is
crossed. They forget that ICE vehicles do this all the time. For
example, when I bought my Gizmo I drove from Kelso, WA to Eugene, OR
and didn't fuel up in Oregon.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 4:15 PM, David Dymaxion


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > GPS is way overkill for this. Why not just plug into the OBDII stream, or
> > intercept the speedo pulses, or put a magnet on a driveshaft or axle.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Michael Clark wrote:
> 
> > so can an EV drive 10000 miles a year? sure it can. thats 28 miles per day.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >> so can an EV drive 10000 miles a year? sure it can. thats 28 miles per day.
> >>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I live in Missouri and we have had a $75 per year fuel tax on EVs (and 
on any other non-taxed fuel vehicle) for many years. I do think it is 
unreasonably high, because my EVs have never racked up sufficient miles 
to equal $75 in gasoline taxes. My question is, if the state of 
Washington thinks $100 is the right amount to charge for an EV no matter 
how many miles per year it is driven, then why not drop the per gallon 
fuel taxes completely and simply change all vehicles $100 per year?

-- 
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
http://evalbum.com/106
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://evtinker.com
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.evdl.org

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme 
position. (Horace)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> > Just to add some perspective. Here in the Northeast we have a lot of toll roads. I would love to pay only $100/year towards road maintenance. Last year I spent $524 just in tolls. That's not even considering the $0.446/ gal gas tax which cost me about $800 last year. Yes, I drive a lot on business.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 09:42:41PM -0500, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You're right. $100 isn't a lot of money - at least for those early EV
adopters. The point is, this is setting up a precedent and precedents are
important to get right - expanding eventually beyond EVs. Do you really
think this is the right solution to have in place 5-10 years from now?

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roger Heuckeroth
Sent: 25 February, 2011 4:51 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] washington state EV tax





> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 09:42:41PM -0500, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > You're right. $100 isn't a lot of money - at least for those early EV
> > adopters. The point is, this is setting up a precedent and
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

An option: If you have an EV conversion that is a car built 25yrs ago or
more, register it as an Antique vehicle. In many (most?) states, antique
vehicle plates and registration are a one-time cost without annual or
biannual renewals. I would guess that any EV registered as an antique
vehicle and with those plates would be exempt from any annual EV road tax.
To receive antique registration and plates you certify that you don't drive
the car for anything other than parades, shows, club events, etc. It's
pretty loose. I think similar rules apply for Specialty plates---those
plates would probably fit well for folks who have drag bikes, drag cars,
etc.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Myles,

I don't mean to be argumentative, but that's not much of an option for those
of us who did a conversion for the express purpose of creating a commuter
vehicle to reduce our carbon footprint (my motivation). My EV is
transportation; it's not for show.

It might work for the person who eariler said they had 8 vehicles which they
only use a little bit each (depending on age of the vehicles of course).

- Peter Flipsen Jr



> Myles Twete <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > An option: If you have an EV conversion that is a car built 25yrs ago or
> > more, register it as an Antique vehicle. In many (most?) states, antique
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Exactly my point...the shoe I describe doesn't fit your foot. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 8:43 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] washington state EV tax

Myles,

I don't mean to be argumentative, but that's not much of an option for those
of us who did a conversion for the express purpose of creating a commuter
vehicle to reduce our carbon footprint (my motivation). My EV is
transportation; it's not for show.

It might work for the person who eariler said they had 8 vehicles which they
only use a little bit each (depending on age of the vehicles of course).

- Peter Flipsen Jr



> Myles Twete <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > An option: If you have an EV conversion that is a car built 25yrs ago or
> > more, register it as an Antique vehicle. In many (most?) states, antique
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On 2/25/2011 4:50 AM, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>
>
>


> Willie McKemie<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 09:42:41PM -0500, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >>
> ...


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