# [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Good photos here of the design of both items

thomas edison motor
Item number: 320231827829 notice the autmatic braking governor


thomas edison battery
Item number: 270222312355 

notice the plate design with the jar open.
why couldn't someone recreate this design themselves with crock pots or 
perhaps even glass jars for a rudimentary and very inexpensive battery 
sytem?

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Geopilot wrote:
> 
> > notice the plate design with the jar open.
> > why couldn't someone recreate this design themselves with crock pots or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> notice the plate design with the jar open.
> why couldn't someone recreate this design themselves with crock pots or
> perhaps even glass jars for a rudimentary and very inexpensive battery
> sytem?
>

Umm, maybe because you can't build "very inexpensive batteries"?

A typical 120V pack of GC batteries contains about 800 lbs of lead. Lead
is extreemly expensive right now, if you buy it in mega bulk (tons at a
time) it costs over $1.50 a lb. As a consumer you will pay at least $2-$3
per lb.
Let's just assume that since you are buying so much (800 lbs) you can get
it for $2 a lb.

That's $1600 JUST FOR THE LEAD!!!!! Add in the cost of the materials for
the cases, Acid, etc. and you are close to the cost of new batteries.

So your homemade batteries that perform poorly and don't last long cost
you as much (assuming you put no value on your time) as buying high
quality ready made batteries.

Buying ready made GC batteries is as inexpensive as it gets.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 31 Mar 2008 at 2:20, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> 
> > Buying ready made GC batteries is as inexpensive as it gets.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

thanks

Tom Parker wrote:
>


> Geopilot wrote:
> >
> >
> >> notice the plate design with the jar open.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
that.
Most don't even have the guts. 

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Geopilot [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay

Good photos here of the design of both items

thomas edison motor
Item number: 320231827829 notice the autmatic braking governor


thomas edison battery
Item number: 270222312355 

notice the plate design with the jar open.
why couldn't someone recreate this design themselves with crock pots or
perhaps even glass jars for a rudimentary and very inexpensive battery
sytem?



_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
In 2008 dollars?
I dont think so.....

Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....

$20 was 2 weeks pay?



On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Today, the labor and machinery cost will kill you in building a Edison 
battery. Some of the materials today may not be allow to be use in this 
battery.

This is a excerpt from my battery section in one of my electrical engineer 
hand books which is dated for that time:

The positive plate consist of nickel hydrate and iron oxide for the negative 
plate.

The electrolyte is a 21 percent (1.200 sp. gr. at 60 deg. fahr) solution or 
potassium hydroxide in water to which is added a small amount of lithium 
hydroxide.

The nickel oxide is a poor electrical conductor, so layers or flake nickel 
is used that contains mercury oxide. The positive plate consists of 
nickel-plated steel frame into which are pressed perforated tubes filled 
with alternate layers of nickel hydroxide and metallic nickel in very thin 
flakes.

The tube is made from a thin sheet of perforated nickel-plated steel which 
is rolled in a spiral to form the tube. Each tube is reinforced by small 
nickel-plated steel rings. The nickel hydroxide and flake nickel are fed 
into the tubes in alternate layers which are tamped into place under a 
pressure of 2000 lb. per sq. in.

This type of cell construction are the thicker C types (337.5 to 675 
ampere-hour at a discharge at 1 volt), for higher discharge rates rather 
than the A,B and G type that have a thinner plate construction.

To make a lead-acid positive plate, it consist of powder lead oxide (PbO2) 
mix with H2SO4 to make a paste and than is press or roll into a lead-atimony 
grid. The negative plate consist of powder lead (Pb) mix with H2SO4.

I would not even attempt to try to roll a perforated nickel-plate steel 
sheet into a tiny tube (1/16 in.dia) and press in layers of nickel 
hydroxide, mercury oxide, and flake nickel at 1 ton of pressure.

Roland







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "patrick DonEgan" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay


> "I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
> In 2008 dollars?
> I dont think so.....
>
> Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....
>
> $20 was 2 weeks pay?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Today, the labor and machinery cost will kill you in building a Edison
> > battery. Some of the materials today may not be allow to be use in this
> > battery.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was wondering the same thing!

-Ralph


On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:23:27 -0600


> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I agree that this is beyond what the average person can (or should) do
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland-

As I have a number of articles on the Edison batteries published in
AUTOMOBILE and other magazines from 1909 thru 1913 at least, and since
Edison did some 10,000 experiments in trying to perfect the Ni-Fe battery
over well over a decade of time, I am curious what the vintage of the
article you cited is.
None of my references and detail descriptions (incuding manufacturing
photographs) from the 1909-1913+ era mention anything about mercury-oxide
being involved in the process at all, let alone being part of the sandwiched
stack of material.

>From Oct. 23, 1913 AUTOMOBILE, pg 784: "Next comes the filling of the round
tubes, the positive ones. Special machines had to be designed to do this
work. Fig. 9 shows the side of a machine and Fig. 10 the end of one. This
machine fills eight tubes at once, inserting the 350 layers of pure nickel
alternated with 350 layers of nickel hydrate and rams each down with a force
of 2,000 pounds per square inch."

Given there was no big concern over mercury back then, I'd have expected
this article to mention mercury as being part of the mix if it were.
ON the other hand, this was a popular Auto Mag..

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:14 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay

Today, the labor and machinery cost will kill you in building a Edison 
battery. Some of the materials today may not be allow to be use in this 
battery.

This is a excerpt from my battery section in one of my electrical engineer 
hand books which is dated for that time:

The positive plate consist of nickel hydrate and iron oxide for the negative

plate.

The electrolyte is a 21 percent (1.200 sp. gr. at 60 deg. fahr) solution or 
potassium hydroxide in water to which is added a small amount of lithium 
hydroxide.

The nickel oxide is a poor electrical conductor, so layers or flake nickel 
is used that contains mercury oxide. The positive plate consists of 
nickel-plated steel frame into which are pressed perforated tubes filled 
with alternate layers of nickel hydroxide and metallic nickel in very thin 
flakes.

The tube is made from a thin sheet of perforated nickel-plated steel which 
is rolled in a spiral to form the tube. Each tube is reinforced by small 
nickel-plated steel rings. The nickel hydroxide and flake nickel are fed 
into the tubes in alternate layers which are tamped into place under a 
pressure of 2000 lb. per sq. in.

This type of cell construction are the thicker C types (337.5 to 675 
ampere-hour at a discharge at 1 volt), for higher discharge rates rather 
than the A,B and G type that have a thinner plate construction.

To make a lead-acid positive plate, it consist of powder lead oxide (PbO2) 
mix with H2SO4 to make a paste and than is press or roll into a lead-atimony

grid. The negative plate consist of powder lead (Pb) mix with H2SO4.

I would not even attempt to try to roll a perforated nickel-plate steel 
sheet into a tiny tube (1/16 in.dia) and press in layers of nickel 
hydroxide, mercury oxide, and flake nickel at 1 ton of pressure.

Roland







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "patrick DonEgan" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay


> "I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
> In 2008 dollars?
> I dont think so.....
>
> Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....
>
> $20 was 2 weeks pay?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Myles,

The reference I have is:

Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers

Sixth Edition by McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc.
New York and London
1933

It has 28 sections and is 2815 pages long. You could try to down load using 
the above info, and the battery section is in section 24 which is 267 pages 
long.

Sometimes the library may have references that may go back that far or could 
be transfer to the archives.

It may be interesting to see what type batteries you have. They could be 
types, A,B,C, and the G type which should be use for traction motors.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Myles Twete" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay


> Roland-
>
> As I have a number of articles on the Edison batteries published in
> AUTOMOBILE and other magazines from 1909 thru 1913 at least, and since
> Edison did some 10,000 experiments in trying to perfect the Ni-Fe battery
> over well over a decade of time, I am curious what the vintage of the
> article you cited is.
> None of my references and detail descriptions (incuding manufacturing
> photographs) from the 1909-1913+ era mention anything about mercury-oxide
> being involved in the process at all, let alone being part of the 
> sandwiched
> stack of material.
>
> >From Oct. 23, 1913 AUTOMOBILE, pg 784: "Next comes the filling of the 
> >round
> tubes, the positive ones. Special machines had to be designed to do this
> work. Fig. 9 shows the side of a machine and Fig. 10 the end of one. 
> This
> machine fills eight tubes at once, inserting the 350 layers of pure nickel
> alternated with 350 layers of nickel hydrate and rams each down with a 
> force
> of 2,000 pounds per square inch."
>
> Given there was no big concern over mercury back then, I'd have expected
> this article to mention mercury as being part of the mix if it were.
> ON the other hand, this was a popular Auto Mag..
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:14 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
>
> Today, the labor and machinery cost will kill you in building a Edison
> battery. Some of the materials today may not be allow to be use in this
> battery.
>
> This is a excerpt from my battery section in one of my electrical engineer
> hand books which is dated for that time:
>
> The positive plate consist of nickel hydrate and iron oxide for the 
> negative
>
> plate.
>
> The electrolyte is a 21 percent (1.200 sp. gr. at 60 deg. fahr) solution 
> or
> potassium hydroxide in water to which is added a small amount of lithium
> hydroxide.
>
> The nickel oxide is a poor electrical conductor, so layers or flake nickel
> is used that contains mercury oxide. The positive plate consists of
> nickel-plated steel frame into which are pressed perforated tubes filled
> with alternate layers of nickel hydroxide and metallic nickel in very thin
> flakes.
>
> The tube is made from a thin sheet of perforated nickel-plated steel which
> is rolled in a spiral to form the tube. Each tube is reinforced by small
> nickel-plated steel rings. The nickel hydroxide and flake nickel are fed
> into the tubes in alternate layers which are tamped into place under a
> pressure of 2000 lb. per sq. in.
>
> This type of cell construction are the thicker C types (337.5 to 675
> ampere-hour at a discharge at 1 volt), for higher discharge rates rather
> than the A,B and G type that have a thinner plate construction.
>
> To make a lead-acid positive plate, it consist of powder lead oxide (PbO2)
> mix with H2SO4 to make a paste and than is press or roll into a 
> lead-atimony
>
> grid. The negative plate consist of powder lead (Pb) mix with H2SO4.
>
> I would not even attempt to try to roll a perforated nickel-plate steel
> sheet into a tiny tube (1/16 in.dia) and press in layers of nickel
> hydroxide, mercury oxide, and flake nickel at 1 ton of pressure.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "patrick DonEgan" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
>
>
> > "I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
> > In 2008 dollars?
> > I dont think so.....
> >
> > Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....
> >
> > $20 was 2 weeks pay?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > > > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My point was that an item of this historical interest would only bring
$21.05 on E-Bay "today".
Thomas Edison memorabilia is usually quite valuable.

Aren't Brittany Spears' used Tampons bringing more than that !


-----Original Message-----
From: patrick DonEgan [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 5:48 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay

"I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
In 2008 dollars?
I dont think so.....

Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....

$20 was 2 weeks pay?



On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wouldn't this indicate that battery manufacturers should be
considering developing batteries using the new technologies in the GC
form factor? It would seem to be a large market.



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Golf car batteries, especially the 6 volt 105-minute to 125-minute range,
> > are about as close as we get to "mass-market" in EVs. They are essentially
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Roland-

Probably the best source for info on Edison cells and detailed construction
methods and machinery is The Edison Alkaline Storage Battery, 1916 ( Found
here in full for first 33pages:
http://books.google.com/books?id=IKIgAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA13&dq=edison+batteries ).
I don't see any mention of mercury being used to make the thin nickel and
nickel-hydrate layer stack for the positive electrode, but I haven't read it
all either. It's a really awesome reference!
I don't have any Edison batteries myself, but will own at least one
eventually I'm sure.
It's interesting from the above reference (pg13 "A Trip thru the Factory")
that one of Edison's first nickel iron batteries to be put to market was for
"electric delivery wagons, passenger electrics and similar types of cars".
The A-4, A-5, A-6 thru A-12 Edison batteries were used for electric
automobiles.

The first they produced was the standard A-4 battery, which was a
150amp-hour, 1.2v cell.
The A-6, was a 268ah, 1.2v battery. It was spec'ed at 16.8wh/# and a
delivered efficiency (Eout/Ein) of 60.6%.
On energy density alone, the Edison cells appear comparable to lead acid of
today.

-Myles

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:49 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay

Hello Myles,

The reference I have is:

Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers

Sixth Edition by McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc.
New York and London
1933

It has 28 sections and is 2815 pages long. You could try to down load using

the above info, and the battery section is in section 24 which is 267 pages 
long.

Sometimes the library may have references that may go back that far or could

be transfer to the archives.

It may be interesting to see what type batteries you have. They could be 
types, A,B,C, and the G type which should be use for traction motors.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Myles Twete" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay


> Roland-
>
> As I have a number of articles on the Edison batteries published in
> AUTOMOBILE and other magazines from 1909 thru 1913 at least, and since
> Edison did some 10,000 experiments in trying to perfect the Ni-Fe battery
> over well over a decade of time, I am curious what the vintage of the
> article you cited is.
> None of my references and detail descriptions (incuding manufacturing
> photographs) from the 1909-1913+ era mention anything about mercury-oxide
> being involved in the process at all, let alone being part of the 
> sandwiched
> stack of material.
>
> >From Oct. 23, 1913 AUTOMOBILE, pg 784: "Next comes the filling of the 
> >round
> tubes, the positive ones. Special machines had to be designed to do this
> work. Fig. 9 shows the side of a machine and Fig. 10 the end of one. 
> This
> machine fills eight tubes at once, inserting the 350 layers of pure nickel
> alternated with 350 layers of nickel hydrate and rams each down with a 
> force
> of 2,000 pounds per square inch."
>
> Given there was no big concern over mercury back then, I'd have expected
> this article to mention mercury as being part of the mix if it were.
> ON the other hand, this was a popular Auto Mag..
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:14 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
>
> Today, the labor and machinery cost will kill you in building a Edison
> battery. Some of the materials today may not be allow to be use in this
> battery.
>
> This is a excerpt from my battery section in one of my electrical engineer
> hand books which is dated for that time:
>
> The positive plate consist of nickel hydrate and iron oxide for the 
> negative
>
> plate.
>
> The electrolyte is a 21 percent (1.200 sp. gr. at 60 deg. fahr) solution 
> or
> potassium hydroxide in water to which is added a small amount of lithium
> hydroxide.
>
> The nickel oxide is a poor electrical conductor, so layers or flake nickel
> is used that contains mercury oxide. The positive plate consists of
> nickel-plated steel frame into which are pressed perforated tubes filled
> with alternate layers of nickel hydroxide and metallic nickel in very thin
> flakes.
>
> The tube is made from a thin sheet of perforated nickel-plated steel which
> is rolled in a spiral to form the tube. Each tube is reinforced by small
> nickel-plated steel rings. The nickel hydroxide and flake nickel are fed
> into the tubes in alternate layers which are tamped into place under a
> pressure of 2000 lb. per sq. in.
>
> This type of cell construction are the thicker C types (337.5 to 675
> ampere-hour at a discharge at 1 volt), for higher discharge rates rather
> than the A,B and G type that have a thinner plate construction.
>
> To make a lead-acid positive plate, it consist of powder lead oxide (PbO2)
> mix with H2SO4 to make a paste and than is press or roll into a 
> lead-atimony
>
> grid. The negative plate consist of powder lead (Pb) mix with H2SO4.
>
> I would not even attempt to try to roll a perforated nickel-plate steel
> sheet into a tiny tube (1/16 in.dia) and press in layers of nickel
> hydroxide, mercury oxide, and flake nickel at 1 ton of pressure.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "patrick DonEgan" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
>
>
> > "I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
> > In 2008 dollars?
> > I dont think so.....
> >
> > Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....
> >
> > $20 was 2 weeks pay?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > > > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more than
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Myles,

It looks likes the same data that is in my 1933 text book, except that it 
list the B,C, and G models which they added other compounds to it.

I read the whole thing, and did not see a reference of mercury oxide in the 
A model batteries.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Myles Twete" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay


> Thanks Roland-
>
> Probably the best source for info on Edison cells and detailed 
> construction
> methods and machinery is The Edison Alkaline Storage Battery, 1916 ( Found
> here in full for first 33pages:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=IKIgAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA13&dq=edison+batteries 
> ).
> I don't see any mention of mercury being used to make the thin nickel and
> nickel-hydrate layer stack for the positive electrode, but I haven't read 
> it
> all either. It's a really awesome reference!
> I don't have any Edison batteries myself, but will own at least one
> eventually I'm sure.
> It's interesting from the above reference (pg13 "A Trip thru the Factory")
> that one of Edison's first nickel iron batteries to be put to market was 
> for
> "electric delivery wagons, passenger electrics and similar types of cars".
> The A-4, A-5, A-6 thru A-12 Edison batteries were used for electric
> automobiles.
>
> The first they produced was the standard A-4 battery, which was a
> 150amp-hour, 1.2v cell.
> The A-6, was a 268ah, 1.2v battery. It was spec'ed at 16.8wh/# and a
> delivered efficiency (Eout/Ein) of 60.6%.
> On energy density alone, the Edison cells appear comparable to lead acid 
> of
> today.
>
> -Myles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:49 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
>
> Hello Myles,
>
> The reference I have is:
>
> Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers
>
> Sixth Edition by McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc.
> New York and London
> 1933
>
> It has 28 sections and is 2815 pages long. You could try to down load 
> using
>
> the above info, and the battery section is in section 24 which is 267 
> pages
> long.
>
> Sometimes the library may have references that may go back that far or 
> could
>
> be transfer to the archives.
>
> It may be interesting to see what type batteries you have. They could be
> types, A,B,C, and the G type which should be use for traction motors.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Myles Twete" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
>
>
> > Roland-
> >
> > As I have a number of articles on the Edison batteries published in
> > AUTOMOBILE and other magazines from 1909 thru 1913 at least, and since
> > Edison did some 10,000 experiments in trying to perfect the Ni-Fe 
> > battery
> > over well over a decade of time, I am curious what the vintage of the
> > article you cited is.
> > None of my references and detail descriptions (incuding manufacturing
> > photographs) from the 1909-1913+ era mention anything about 
> > mercury-oxide
> > being involved in the process at all, let alone being part of the
> > sandwiched
> > stack of material.
> >
> > >From Oct. 23, 1913 AUTOMOBILE, pg 784: "Next comes the filling of the
> > >round
> > tubes, the positive ones. Special machines had to be designed to do 
> > this
> > work. Fig. 9 shows the side of a machine and Fig. 10 the end of one.
> > This
> > machine fills eight tubes at once, inserting the 350 layers of pure 
> > nickel
> > alternated with 350 layers of nickel hydrate and rams each down with a
> > force
> > of 2,000 pounds per square inch."
> >
> > Given there was no big concern over mercury back then, I'd have expected
> > this article to mention mercury as being part of the mix if it were.
> > ON the other hand, this was a popular Auto Mag..
> >
> > -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Roland Wiench
> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:14 AM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
> >
> > Today, the labor and machinery cost will kill you in building a Edison
> > battery. Some of the materials today may not be allow to be use in this
> > battery.
> >
> > This is a excerpt from my battery section in one of my electrical 
> > engineer
> > hand books which is dated for that time:
> >
> > The positive plate consist of nickel hydrate and iron oxide for the
> > negative
> >
> > plate.
> >
> > The electrolyte is a 21 percent (1.200 sp. gr. at 60 deg. fahr) solution
> > or
> > potassium hydroxide in water to which is added a small amount of lithium
> > hydroxide.
> >
> > The nickel oxide is a poor electrical conductor, so layers or flake 
> > nickel
> > is used that contains mercury oxide. The positive plate consists of
> > nickel-plated steel frame into which are pressed perforated tubes filled
> > with alternate layers of nickel hydroxide and metallic nickel in very 
> > thin
> > flakes.
> >
> > The tube is made from a thin sheet of perforated nickel-plated steel 
> > which
> > is rolled in a spiral to form the tube. Each tube is reinforced by small
> > nickel-plated steel rings. The nickel hydroxide and flake nickel are 
> > fed
> > into the tubes in alternate layers which are tamped into place under a
> > pressure of 2000 lb. per sq. in.
> >
> > This type of cell construction are the thicker C types (337.5 to 675
> > ampere-hour at a discharge at 1 volt), for higher discharge rates rather
> > than the A,B and G type that have a thinner plate construction.
> >
> > To make a lead-acid positive plate, it consist of powder lead oxide 
> > (PbO2)
> > mix with H2SO4 to make a paste and than is press or roll into a
> > lead-atimony
> >
> > grid. The negative plate consist of powder lead (Pb) mix with H2SO4.
> >
> > I would not even attempt to try to roll a perforated nickel-plate steel
> > sheet into a tiny tube (1/16 in.dia) and press in layers of nickel
> > hydroxide, mercury oxide, and flake nickel at 1 ton of pressure.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "patrick DonEgan" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] thomas edison original battery and motor on ebay
> >
> >
> > > "I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05."
> > > In 2008 dollars?
> > > I dont think so.....
> > >
> > > Back then the whole car cost a couple of hundred....
> > >
> > > $20 was 2 weeks pay?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I was really surprised that the Edison Battery only sold for $21.05.
> > > > > I've seen old production type glass batteries sell for a lot more
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Wouldn't this indicate that battery manufacturers should be
> considering developing batteries using the new technologies in the GC
> form factor? It would seem to be a large market.

Why? The current GC batteries meet all the requirements of a Golf cart. 
How many people do you thin will spend extra money to buy "new and
improved" batteries when the old cheap kind doee everything they
want/need?

How many people spend $20-$30 on "space pens" that can write in zero G,
under water, and on glass when a $0.50 bic writes just fine on paper?

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> 
> > How many people spend $20-$30 on "space pens" that can write in zero G,
> > under water, and on glass when a $0.50 bic writes just fine on paper?
> ...


----------

