# Start of Electric Peace Bus



## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

I know, I know!! Not the ideal vehicle for a conversion. But as it is, my wife doesn't drive it. She says she will as an EV (and I know I will!!) But isn't that paint job cool!! And there have been several successful bus conversions, so I am not worried. I am ordering the motor and controller today, and we will be fabricating our own adapter plate and coupling. We will be retaining the clutch to facilitate my wife driving "her" bus. Any input on this conversion will be greatly appreciated. I am sort of a jack of all trades (master of none)!! My wife will be helping, as she is quite handy, and a steadying influence. We owned a hardware store for 18 years, and survived that, so this should be no sweat! Any suggestions or comments are most welcome. The one thing that I've learned over the years is that the older I get, the less that I know.


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2008)

What! That's a perfectly fine vehicle to convert. None of the conversions are hot rods anyway so converting a toaster is no problem. Folks do S-10 trucks all the time. Yes its a fine paint scheme. Peace!. What are your plans motor and controller wise for this conversion? I have a 64 Ghia converted and we are working on a 70 Single Cab to convert. I have a big Kostov motor and controller to use for that conversion maybe. We may take the motor from the Ghia and put it into the 70 Single Cab. I can store all my batteries under the truck bed out of the way. 

I'd keep the clutch with this setup. The Bus has pretty low gearing and keeping the clutch will help a bunch. 

Pete

http://inertext.homeunix.com/70cab
http://inertext.homeunix.com/64ghia



gravelydude said:


> I know, I know!! Not the ideal vehicle for a conversion. But as it is, my wife doesn't drive it. She says she will as an EV (and I know I will!!) But isn't that paint job cool!! And there have been several successful bus conversions, so I am not worried. I am ordering the motor and controller today, and we will be fabricating our own adapter plate and coupling. We will be retaining the clutch to facilitate my wife driving "her" bus. Any input on this conversion will be greatly appreciated. I am sort of a jack of all trades (master of none)!! My wife will be helping, as she is quite handy, and a steadying influence. We owned a hardware store for 18 years, and survived that, so this should be no sweat! Any suggestions or comments are most welcome. The one thing that I've learned over the years is that the older I get, the less that I know.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks Pete!! We are going with a 9"" ADC and Curtis 1231 controller. I like to stay with the tried and true! Yes, we will be keeping the clutch. It seems to me the advantages of retaining the clutch in this vehicle definitely outweigh the disadvantages. The main theme of this vehicle is that patriotism, peace, and alternative energy can coexist. Some people equate patriotism with militarism or aggresiveness;  not necessarily so!!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm guessing we're talking about a VW Bus... not a school bus or highway coach. 

Y'all are talking about a paint job, but there are no links or pics... what am I missing?


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2008)

What other kind of bus is there!   







TX_Dj said:


> I'm guessing we're talking about a VW Bus... not a school bus or highway coach.
> 
> Y'all are talking about a paint job, but there are no links or pics... what am I missing?


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Neato torpedo!

Reminds me of my old "peppermint stick"... was a 71(?) non-pop westie (loved that HUGE sunroof instead) red/white two-tone with white stripes on the red. It was gonna become an EV, but the project fell apart.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Pete,

You have some great conversions going! You must be a VW man. Looking very good. Do you have any advice about selling my 1600 engine (it runs great)? Thanks

JACK


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2008)

I gave one to my son's and one is still in the Single Cab. I am not pulling it until I am sure I want to do that. I was thinking of doing a project of using straight ethanol to power the Bus. We can create it here for pennies on the dollar. We have loads of waste fruit in the summer months that we can produce enough to last the entire year. Limited to what can be carried on board. Not meant to be a long distance vehicle. So it will become our next EV or Ethanol powered VW. I still think it will become an EV but after we try our ethanol testing. That will allow us to sell the engine as an ethanol engine and can give the plans away to build a home based still for ethanol production. Local Green if you please. 

For now we are going to finish the Ghia and Solar Hot water then on to the Ethanol Still. 

Pete : )

If you want you could sell your engine on craigslist and keep it in your bus until you have a buyer. That way they can check out the engine and will know it will be a runner before they buy and you will be able to get more for your engine. My engine is a 1641 stock with baby dells. Runs very strong. 





gravelydude said:


> Pete,
> 
> You have some great conversions going! You must be a VW man. Looking very good. Do you have any advice about selling my 1600 engine (it runs great)? Thanks
> 
> JACK


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks Pete; that's good advice to keep the engine installed until my buyer can see it run.  Wouldn't want to buy an engine myself if I couldn't see and hear it run!!

I ordered my motor and controller today from EVA. They had the best price by over $200 including shipping, plus they had both in stock and could ship out right away. I will buy the rest of my parts from EV Source, KTA, EV Parts, and E-Bay; depending on price and availability. I think that location of fabrication of the battery racks will be the most difficult job. 
JACK


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

If you use AGM's you could use the fuel tank space and build two boxes under the seats in the passenger compartment. Then leave the engine bay open for your electronic components. AGM's will keep your car clean of acid damage. There is lots of room available where the fuel tank goes but it does not give easy access. Unless you build an access panel you should use AGM's. They do cost more but for ease of use they will be an excellent choice. For my Ghia I chose floodies. For my Single Cab I will still be able to use floodies because I have easy access to the tool storage area of the Single Cab. 

Pete : )





gravelydude said:


> Thanks Pete; that's good advice to keep the engine installed until my buyer can see it run.  Wouldn't want to buy an engine myself if I couldn't see and hear it run!!
> 
> I ordered my motor and controller today from EVA. They had the best price by over $200 including shipping, plus they had both in stock and could ship out right away. I will buy the rest of my parts from EV Source, KTA, EV Parts, and E-Bay; depending on price and availability. I think that location of fabrication of the battery racks will be the most difficult job.
> JACK


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Hey Pete,

Thanks for the battery advice, but I think that I will be going with flooded. I plan on having to build some access doors. I started the vacuum pump brake project. I am just waiting on a pressure switch to install my E-Bay Thomas vacuum pomp, and my 4" PVC homemade "tank". Seems like EV projects involve a lot of hurry up and wait for the parts to come!!

JACK


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## EVMAN (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey Jack, I think your choices for the motor, controller and batteries for the PeaceWagen are right on! dude!! Surfs up! U R in florida!! Perfect for those beach outings when there isn't a hurricane LOL!! Leaving the engine in until U sell is also a MOST wise decision. As is keeping the clutch and transmission! I will suggest to U not to order the batteries until the last minute. Get the battery dimensions and build your cradles 1 inch larger. U will want plastic liners in your battery trays. I use 1/4 in polyethelyne. Allow for the extra height of the battery posts plus a little more. Also, figure out the layout of all the batteries in that U know where/how each positive and negative terminal will be located. Good luck! 
Hey, I know Jack!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Jack,

If there's any question whatsoever on the viability of clutchless in your bus... take it from me... the bus is a little harder to shift w/o clutch than a bug (and that's assuming your bus is like most, with the shift linkage bushings worn out) but it's not as bad as most vehicles I've owned.

I learned to shift clutchless with my VW's, as my 67 beetle snapped its clutch cable many MANY times before I finally figured out what was causing it to break. 

But if you're just going to tool around town, you might be able to get away just leaving it in 2nd gear most of the time. In fact, the guy I got the idea to convert my old bus from left his in 2nd and removed the shifter cane. He never went over about 40-45 mph though and didn't live in a hilly area.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks Tony!! Good advice on the batteries!! I think the battery placement and restraint system is probably the most challenging part of the project! Especially since I am a hack welder. I will have to practice my welding considerably before I am confident in my battery support system. Maybe I'll have my wife do it!!! She definitely has more natural ability at welding than I do!!
JACK


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Hey DJ

The clutch is an issue mainly because I want to make this as seamless as possible for my wife (considering that this is technically her vehicle!!) I need to retain the transmission, because a lot of our vehicle travel is at 45 mph, some at 25 mph, and range is what we're after her, not speed (no freeway driving and all flat terrain). She has no problems with a manual, but we will both have to relearn efficiency shifting with an EV. Much easier with the clutch I think! Thanks for the input!


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

So, how much heavier is the VW Microbus compared to the Bug? Seeing as the same 1600cc ICE ran them both, maybe it's lighter than it looks?

Also, any idea how much heavier the suspension is?


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Unfortunately, it weighs almost 2900. I think that the bug of the same year weighs almost 2,000. "The list" includes weighing the bus pre-conversion, but we have not done it yet!

 JACK


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Yeah, it's not "much" more than a bug, but it has a lot more frontal surface area and a worse drag coefficient... Buses do, however, have an additional gear reduction and different gear ratios, which help to combat that issue, which could be helpful with an EV.

I was going to stack 6-8 batteries in the engine bay (mine was old enough to still use a Type 1 engine, so it had a separate decklid) and I think I could have got that many in there depending on motor diameter. Mine was a westy non-pop as well, and I figured I had room for batteries under the rear bench and in the closet and under the rear-facing seat behind the driver. Beyond that, I was going to have to get creative for the rest of them, but unfortunately that project didn't progress far enough to tackle that.

Most buses I see converted tend to fill the center floorboard with batteries in one way or another.


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

Since the Bus should be high enough off the ground-why not some recesssed Battery boxes on each side of the center floorboard, covered with a solid top? You could:

have the entire back available
balance all your extra weight evenly

Or, if you're worried about the batteries being on opposite sides of each axle, you could try either a recessed 'T' shape or a full Cruciform down the entire floor, also covered-make the top covers rigid enough to walk on and you'd still have all your space in back, with a balanced load...


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

It is actually our intention to weld battery racks directly to the frame and frame crossmembers, and replace the metal floor with a plywood lid(s) lined on the bottom with a yet to be determined plastic material, and covered on top with carpet. The brake lines, emergency brake cable, and or clutch cable may have to be rerouted somewhat, but it is doable. The main impetus is to retain a stock look both inside and out (not withstanding the paint job of course) First order is to sell the engine (it is on Craig's list now). I am not really overly concerned about wind resistance for 3 reasons: 1) 45 mph is tops for where vehicle will be used
2) Several successful bus conversions have been done
3) Totally flat terrain here in FL

JACK


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

I think cutting and rebuilding the recessed floor would be a bit of an undertaking. Not to mention destroying a perfectly good VW. If the floor was already rusted and in need of replacement then I'd say go for it. Most newer busses are still clean and do not need the floor replaced. I think using your engine compartment and two special boxes under the center seat and rear seat should hold all your batteries and still leave all your seating room in your bus. Your bus does not have extra reduction gear boxes. Those went away with the 68 model bus. My bus is still using the type I but I still need a cross member to hold it. You bus will hold lots of batteries but you will most likely not use more than 24 6 volt batteries. Did you see this Bus? http://www.evalbum.com/384


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks for the input Pete! We will only be using the rearmost bench seat and the two front seats. No middle bench seat. I want to retain that space as we move a lot of bulky stuff around. I think you have a good point about using the space under the bench seat. But we will still need more battery space. We are on hold for the project until we sell the IC engine.  I don't want to take it out until it is sold. We received our motor and controller from EV America, so I am itching to go! Time from order day to picking up at the freight terminal was 4 days!! Know any one that wants to buy a good running, pollution spewing, gas eating VW engine in Florida?? We are not getting much response from Craig's List, but I am going to resist pulling the motor until we sell it Going to install our 12 volt vacuum pump tomorrow since the IC can stay in for that modification. 
JACK


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## EVMAN (Jul 26, 2007)

Try going to your local VW hotrodder place(s).
Maybe they have a post board that U could stick an ad on(?)
Ordering parts and not using them for a while is not (IMO) a good investment.
Controllers/motors have a short warranty time (1yr?).
Craig's list only seems to work if item is really really cheap. 
Price out what a VW engine sim to yours is going for, 
and advertize for half that. 
At last resort, pull it out and give it away 
Get that future EV on-the-road...
Just git-er-done! LOL!
have fun... 
T


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Wholeheartedly agree w/ EVMAN on those points.

Though, it is easier to sell an engine when you can prove that it A) does run, and B) does motor the vehicle down the road.

Worst case, you can put it on fleabay with no reserve for a starting bid near what you're willing to accept... and post videos of the motor running in the bus and the bus moving under its power... then after the vids are shot, pull that motor and get to work!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

What about taking a video of the ICE purring along nicely? You could load it onto youtube and point your craigslist ad there. Then you can take out the motor and take lots of photos to hand off to the next guy. I don't think that would be a problem for an engine sale. At least, it wouldn't deter me.


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## EVMAN (Jul 26, 2007)

More Excellent ideas BF !
Guess it depends on if U have video knowledge 
I was gonna suggest evilbay with the pick-up only option 
Either way..the video is a great idea...
H ... put the video on You-Tube LOL!! 
afn
T


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

how much money do you plan to get from the motor any way 10,000 15,000 dollars? or 100-200 bucks? whats your time worth? every month you wait costs more gasoline, expiring warranties etc. I understand you want the money but how much difference will it make if its in the car running verses out of the car and telling the potental buyer that it does work? Not sure that motors worth that much is it? I agree with the majority yank it out and get er done!!!!!!!!!!!! The amount of money your spending on the whole project makes a couple hundred dollar motor pretty insignifacant. (IMHO).

Brian stop procrastinating and do it!


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2008)

craigslist will be the best choice for local sales and the reason for keeping it in the vehicle is that a potential buyer can actually drive the vehicle and that will give you the most for the engine. If you are not driving the vehicle you are not worrying about using gas. If you pull the engine you are not driving yet either. You will wait for many parts so while you wait keep the motor in and allow a potential buyer the best. I would not pay squat for an engine I could not drive around first before I paid my money. I would not trust a video either. That could be an old video and not true to current condition of the engine. I would like it better but I would still be skeptical as would you. A turn key engine could bring a cool $700 bucks. Depends upon how good the engine really is. If it's not the best engine then taking it out now would be fine as you won't get much anyway. My engine is in excellent condition and would wait for it to sell. I could get a cool $800 to $900 for a full turn key engine. Low miles and it does not leak. It is very strong and has dual dell carbs and it is well balanced and the carbs are balanced to run smoothly. The engine in my Bus is good. That is why I suggest you leave it in. It is of course your choice on what you do. I won't tell you not to do that. It is just a good suggestion and one that could make some extra cash for purchasing components for your EV. : )

It's a smart move.

Pete : )


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

as long as time is on your side and the odds are the new motor will never cause you issues well after the warranty thats not an issue as for the controller that may be a different story with the warranty, but perhaps not and hey 8-900 bucks ya that money will sure be handy with all the expenses your about to incurr, keep acquiring all your parts till the motor is out then finish it up. good luck with the project.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

I have to agree with Pete on this one. I have to at least give the motor a chance to sell on Craig's List. It is a good motor, no leaks, and runs strong. It is only a single port, but I think I should be able to get at least $600 for it. I may put it on Greed-Bay, just to widen my exposure; but I've got to think that Craig's List is my best bet. We still have pleanty to do on the vehicle, but pulling the motor obviously helps plan everything else. And it is my wife's vehicle, and she is a very patient person (about some things, anyway!!) Besides, I could probably spend a week cleaning up my shop!!
JACK


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Hey Jack...

As you probably know, most converters tend to tear down and rebuild, starting with the motor/transmission and working out from there.

You guys could mix up the order a little bit, and take the opportunity to start working on things that don't require an empty engine bay, such as your battery racks. Won't hurt anything really to work on the battery rack while still ICE powered... and that's one less thing to do when you "officially" start on the conversion.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2008)

For a big item on ebay that may or may not sell is risky for a little cash. If it does not sell you still have to pay ebay. Ouch.

Hope you did not list it on craigs list like this: Know any one that wants to buy a good running, pollution spewing, gas eating VW engine : ) Though it is true it will not sell your engine. If it does not sell soon even on craigslist then you may want to take the advice of the others and take some good video footage of the engine running and the bus on the road. You might expect $4 to $5 hundred for you motor. Maybe. I stated what I may get but I always state the high side. : ) I may only get $6 hundred for mine. The most I ever got for an engine out of the vehicle was $250 and it was a complete turnkey engine for a Type III. Unknown if it even ran. The buyer knew that. It was clean and just the outside components were worth that. 

I agree that there is a lot you could do while you wait. Clean, build boxes or one of them at least. That will keep you very busy anyway and moving forward with your project. Glad to hear you have some parts. You could even work out a schematic and you could even get started on your electric panel for your high voltage. Remember you will want a good heat sink on the back of your controller. I am waiting for mine to arrive. 

Pete : )


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

OK, I haven't been here for a while, but the project and I are still alive. My wife and I spent a few weeks in the mountains in North Carolina. We have no internet up there. Right before we left, I sold the IC via Craig's list (got $400 for it without the flywheel). I removed the VW engine using a floor jack. Went pretty well. Then removed the flywheel. My buyer came and picked up the motor, and we put it in his pickup. Then I removed the fuel tank, and trimmed up some of the sheet metal in the engine compartment. I decided to order an adapter kit from Canadian EV. If anyone wants any specific info on Canadian EV, E-mail me. I will summarize, and say that I wouldn't order anything from them again. The installation of the adapter and coupler took about an hour, and was relatively straightforward, but NO INSTRUCTIONS CAME WITH THE KIT. I E-mailed Randy at Canadian EV asking for an instruction sheet, but he never responded to my E-mail. Like I said, it was pretty easy, though; although the socket head machine screws that hold the taper lock hub to the motor shaft adapter were too long. Solved by a few dollars and a trip to the hardware store. 
JACK


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2008)

Jack, 


Good to hear the news on the engine sale. Good to see the motor going in. Any idea when you may have batteries and such to make a maiden voyage?

Pete





gravelydude said:


> OK, I haven't been here for a while, but the project and I are still alive. My wife and I spent a few weeks in the mountains in North Carolina. We have no internet up there. Right before we left, I sold the IC via Craig's list (got $400 for it without the flywheel). I removed the VW engine using a floor jack. Went pretty well. Then removed the flywheel. My buyer came and picked up the motor, and we put it in his pickup. Then I removed the fuel tank, and trimmed up some of the sheet metal in the engine compartment. I decided to order an adapter kit from Canadian EV. If anyone wants any specific info on Canadian EV, E-mail me. I will summarize, and say that I wouldn't order anything from them again. The installation of the adapter and coupler took about an hour, and was relatively straightforward, but NO INSTRUCTIONS CAME WITH THE KIT. I E-mailed Randy at Canadian EV asking for an instruction sheet, but he never responded to my E-mail. Like I said, it was pretty easy, though; although the socket head machine screws that hold the taper lock hub to the motor shaft adapter were too long. Solved by a few dollars and a trip to the hardware store.
> JACK


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Pete,
I don't expect Kathi to make her maiden voyage in the bus until January. Just started working on battery racks after putting the motor in. I should be able to get 6 batteries in the engine compartment now that I know exactly how and where to work around the motor. Kathi is supposed to be working on the interior of the bus and replacing some weatherstripping and light lenses, but she hasn't stepped up to the plate yet It's actually her vehicle. I'm sure that the holidays will slow us up some, so I think that January is realistic. 
JACK

JACK


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2008)

I know about the holiday slow downs. I am in a slow mo too. I am reinstalling my controller with heat sink today. I am drilling now for mounting. I will be mounting it in a different spot maybe. 




gravelydude said:


> Pete,
> I don't expect Kathi to make her maiden voyage in the bus until January. Just started working on battery racks after putting the motor in. I should be able to get 6 batteries in the engine compartment now that I know exactly how and where to work around the motor. Kathi is supposed to be working on the interior of the bus and replacing some weatherstripping and light lenses, but she hasn't stepped up to the plate yet It's actually her vehicle. I'm sure that the holidays will slow us up some, so I think that January is realistic.
> JACK
> 
> JACK


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the cobbled together motor mount, which utilizes the original crossmember. Progress, slow but sure
JACK


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## speederbike1 (Dec 5, 2007)

actually the bus had better aerodynamicsthan the bug


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, not sure where that came from, but I'm pretty sure than there are very few vehicles that have worse aerodynamics than a bus; and I would bet that a bug isn't one of them! But I've bet and been wrong before
JACK


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## speederbike1 (Dec 5, 2007)

I was reading through some old info on busses and things(type 181s) and it touched on the issue of aero. It stated that the bus, when it was a prototype, had absolutely horrendous aero drag, so they reshaped the face to redirect the air around it and over it. It talked about a larger overhang on the prototype also. Then I happened across a vw history article by a German engineer whose name i can't pronounce, who was involved with the bug and bus and he stated that because of all the different surface airflow changes and the almost verticle winshield, along with the gaping fenderwells allowing air in, that the bug had aero drag that was worse than the bus, which had a little more frontal area due to height, but the flow was more laminar with so very few protrusions from the body. hope this clears it up. Maybe i am the one in the wrong.if so i apologize. I will try to find the references, as it has been a few years.
Will

Sorry for the hijack


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2008)

Good to see the mount coming along. Nice. Yup the bus is pretty fair aero wise. You also need to remember that the longer a vehicle is the over all better it behaves through the medium it travels. Like a boat. The longer it is the better. The wider and shorter it is the worse it is. Skinny and long is always best. It does not have a flat face to the wind either. All surfaces are curved. That helps. Still it is not the best. Hows this bus? I may be getting this one soon. Maybe. Not best for nasty weather but my intention is fair weather and racing. 

Pete : )








gravelydude said:


> Here are some pictures of the cobbled together motor mount, which utilizes the original crossmember. Progress, slow but sure
> JACK


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## speederbike1 (Dec 5, 2007)

is that called a "Combi"-vertible?


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2008)

Could be! : )

Been thinking of how to make a removable soft top already for bad weather days. I have more images and it is actually in pretty damn good condition and no rot from what I see in the photos sent. That is a damn good thing. It has potential and it is an old Splittie like I want. We have many real nice days here so driving it with out the top would be perfect. Vertible Buss. Heck I may even put on deluxe trim and it would be perfect. A Cabrio Buss. I mostly want it for racing purposes. Perfect for advertising too. Could be an around town hauler and since it can literally hold tons of batteries it could be a long hauler too.

Pete : )



speederbike1 said:


> is that called a "Combi"-vertible?


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

You want it...for RACING PURPOSES?

I would buy tickets to see this!


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2008)

OH yea baby! One sweet little electric dragster and I will always know I can carry enough batteries for max power. Yup, why not. It is no longer best for a restoration as the top is already off and the edges welded and the side and rear doors welded shut. Good for a drag tub. : )

I have a nice Kostov to stuff into this puppy. 

Pete : )


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