# Smith Electric



## Solarrx (Oct 2, 2020)

I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

lol. I was looking at those.

There's good reason why these are farmed out to suckers at auctions...can't get parts, unless you buy two or three or four (if there's a common failure that kills them...).

Was too rich for me - would need to gut and replace the controls. I guess it actually charging is a bonus....I would have expected the batteries were cycled to death, daily, over 8 years.

This would all be pretty straight forward if people located manuals for current vehicles and archived them here, wouldn't it?


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## paaa (Aug 20, 2019)

Don't know if its applicable but its the wiring diagram for 2007 Smith Edison van with Enova inverter.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

Solarrx said:


> I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


If you take the cover off the top of the dash you should find a key! Did you ever get it started? I managed to buy one and am also looking for a manual or some sort of wiring diagram.


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## Solarrx (Oct 2, 2020)

jgilly69 said:


> If you take the cover off the top of the dash you should find a key! Did you ever get it started? I managed to buy one and am also looking for a manual or some sort of wiring diagram.


Can you share your secret for getting your van to run? I am stumped! Thanks


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

Solarrx said:


> Can you share your secret for getting your van to run? I am stumped! Thanks


 I had an error on my van stopping it from booting from the startup smith screen. If there are any faults the screen will just display the "Smith logo". I ran the scanner software and found I had the high voltage interlock error. Tracking that down can be a pain in the butt. Its referred to as the Evil loop. It really is just that a loop that goes into every connection on every system. I think I sent you the plans that show the loop, look for the interlock wires. 

But the very very first thing I would do is remove each of the orange high voltage disconnect "pucks" and place them back on, but when you place them on make sure you pull the "handle outwards, then rotate them closed otherwise they will not connect the interlock at the connector. I managed to fix my loop issue with a loose wire, but still had a HV interlock issue which caused by one of the orange pucks. That was one of the root causes of the failure to start up.

I will see what I can do to get you the software. You will need a CAN adaptor specifically a PEAK USB CAN Adapter IPEH 002021. They are on Ebay used for about $150 and will work with the software. Someone local may have one you can rent or borrow. Also you will need a functioning laptop.


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## Solarrx (Oct 2, 2020)

jgilly69 said:


> I had an error on my van stopping it from booting from the startup smith screen. If there are any faults the screen will just display the "Smith logo". I ran the scanner software and found I had the high voltage interlock error. Tracking that down can be a pain in the butt. Its referred to as the Evil loop. It really is just that a loop that goes into every connection on every system. I think I sent you the plans that show the loop, look for the interlock wires.
> 
> But the very very first thing I would do is remove each of the orange high voltage disconnect "pucks" and place them back on, but when you place them on make sure you pull the "handle outwards, then rotate them closed otherwise they will not connect the interlock at the connector. I managed to fix my loop issue with a loose wire, but still had a HV interlock issue which caused by one of the orange pucks. That was one of the root causes of the failure to start up.
> 
> I will see what I can do to get you the software. You will need a CAN adaptor specifically a PEAK USB CAN Adapter IPEH 002021. They are on Ebay used for about $150 and will work with the software. Someone local may have one you can rent or borrow. Also you will need a functioning laptop.


Thank you John! I appreciate the insight.


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

Did you ever get it started? I bought one too (Smith Step Van) but I got it started. The only problem I have seems to be a battery fault. I will post a pic soon because I need help with the batteries since only 3 out of the 4 seem to be good. From the schmematic posted prior, it looks like the batteries are in a loop? I'm wondering if I could bypass theban battery for now because it's going to be rather difficult removing the battery banks without a forklift, and I'm almost considering taking off the aluminum floor boards inside the van in order to get access to the batteries from the top.


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## Solarrx (Oct 2, 2020)

SmithEV said:


> Did you ever get it started? I bought one too (Smith Step Van) but I got it started. The only problem I have seems to be a battery fault. I will post a pic soon because I need help with the batteries since only 3 out of the 4 seem to be good. From the schmematic posted prior, it looks like the batteries are in a loop? I'm wondering if I could bypass theban battery for now because it's going to be rather difficult removing the battery banks without a forklift, and I'm almost considering taking off the aluminum floor boards inside the van in order to get access to the batteries from the top.


I did not get it running and decided to remove the batteries for sale. Half the batteries did charge when in the van, the other ones need to be checked out. If you end up needing to replace any batteries, I will sell individual ones for $500 each. Good luck on your project!


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> I had an error on my van stopping it from booting from the startup smith screen. If there are any faults the screen will just display the "Smith logo". I ran the scanner software and found I had the high voltage interlock error. Tracking that down can be a pain in the butt. Its referred to as the Evil loop. It really is just that a loop that goes into every connection on every system. I think I sent you the plans that show the loop, look for the interlock wires.
> 
> But the very very first thing I would do is remove each of the orange high voltage disconnect "pucks" and place them back on, but when you place them on make sure you pull the "handle outwards, then rotate them closed otherwise they will not connect the interlock at the connector. I managed to fix my loop issue with a loose wire, but still had a HV interlock issue which caused by one of the orange pucks. That was one of the root causes of the failure to start up.
> 
> I will see what I can do to get you the software. You will need a CAN adaptor specifically a PEAK USB CAN Adapter IPEH 002021. They are on Ebay used for about $150 and will work with the software. Someone local may have one you can rent or borrow. Also you will need a functioning laptop.


jgilly69, will you help me out with the software process? I'd like to run the scanner software like you did and everything. I know that BenjaminNelson guy on youtube just made a video about hooking his Smith Electric batteries to some PC software - he had the Valence batteries from a Smith box truck not the step van (d75 Newton Step Van).

Also, jgilly69, how did you check your orange pucks? My battery pack has four of the orange puck style ones and I just ohmed mine with a Fluke meter and they seemed fine. Also, I did find that if you don't open the latches on these pucks _all the way_ then they won't go back in the same way and you'll have issues since they're not inserted properly - kinda like you said. When I think of "high voltage interlock" from the fault you read from the software, I'm thinking about the pucks as the interlocks? Either way, I'm not getting that fault, the van moves and everything, but on the battery interface 1 of 4 battery rings(?) is yellow while the others are green -it's the third one in from the left that's yellow. Right now,I can't figure out which if the two battery packs the bad ring is on? I wan't to avoid removing both packs.

Solarrx, I'm interested.


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## Smithy (Mar 11, 2019)

SmithEV said:


> jgilly69, will you help me out with the software process? I'd like to run the scanner software like you did and everything. I know that BenjaminNelson guy on youtube just made a video about hooking his Smith Electric batteries to some PC software - he had the Valence batteries from a Smith box truck not the step van (d75 Newton Step Van).
> 
> Also, jgilly69, how did you check your orange pucks? My battery pack has four of the orange puck style ones and I just ohmed mine with a Fluke meter and they seemed fine. Also, I did find that if you don't open the latches on these pucks _all the way_ then they won't go back in the same way and you'll have issues since they're not inserted properly - kinda like you said. When I think of "high voltage interlock" from the fault you read from the software, I'm thinking about the pucks as the interlocks? Either way, I'm not getting that fault, the van moves and everything, but on the battery interface 1 of 4 battery rings(?) is yellow while the others are green -it's the third one in from the left that's yellow. Right now,I can't figure out which if the two battery packs the bad ring is on? I wan't to avoid removing both packs.
> 
> ...


Hi Smith.
I have one of these as well, been driving it for 2 years.
I've encountered this a couple times and I believe it is with the modules becoming un balanced. Or the vcu running out of memory. Not sure. Some diag. Software would be handy.
My solution which has worked for me is disconnect the 24v battery for a bit. Reconnect. Charge batteries to full capacity. Disconnect 24v wait a bit. Reconnect and turn on. Sometimes going through the routine a couple of times.
Hope this helps


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

SmithEV said:


> jgilly69, will you help me out with the software process? I'd like to run the scanner software like you did and everything. I know that BenjaminNelson guy on youtube just made a video about hooking his Smith Electric batteries to some PC software - he had the Valence batteries from a Smith box truck not the step van (d75 Newton Step Van).
> 
> Also, jgilly69, how did you check your orange pucks? My battery pack has four of the orange puck style ones and I just ohmed mine with a Fluke meter and they seemed fine. Also, I did find that if you don't open the latches on these pucks _all the way_ then they won't go back in the same way and you'll have issues since they're not inserted properly - kinda like you said. When I think of "high voltage interlock" from the fault you read from the software, I'm thinking about the pucks as the interlocks? Either way, I'm not getting that fault, the van moves and everything, but on the battery interface 1 of 4 battery rings(?) is yellow while the others are green -it's the third one in from the left that's yellow. Right now,I can't figure out which if the two battery packs the bad ring is on? I wan't to avoid removing both packs.
> 
> ...


I think you have a low voltage cell in that pack. I would keep it on the charger and it will bring that one pack up... slowly abet slowly. I watched the final charging from the controller and it ramped down to 1-4amps, which allows the onboard balancers to take over. I have a zip file with the scanner software but cant seem to upload it to the site. Please send me a message and I will send you an email. 

I have some better specific drawings to the stepvan file is huge! 26MB


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

I was given a nice gift related to these trucks and vans! Please message me and I will try to hook anyone up with a smith van or truck.


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> I think you have a low voltage cell in that pack. I would keep it on the charger and it will bring that one pack up... slowly abet slowly. I watched the final charging from the controller and it ramped down to 1-4amps, which allows the onboard balancers to take over. I have a zip file with the scanner software but cant seem to upload it to the site. Please send me a message and I will send you an email.
> 
> I have some better specific drawings to the stepvan file is huge! 26MB


Smithy, thanks a lot for the info! I will definitely be trying this.

jgilly69, I think I had a similar experience with a ChargingPoint charger where it ramped down like that but I wasn't sure what was happening. I'm going to be getting my own charger very soon and conduct this experiment. If this is all there is to it, then I guess I will be home free! My initial problem and why it wouldn't start at Copart was that one of the two 12-volt batteries for the 24-volt system was dead and bad, I tried recharging it with a jump but it would die out again so I replaced it with a new one and now it starts up like normal and keeps a charge, but I have to issue with the one string of batteries on the main traction battery packs. My final goal is to charge the batteries with solar like those fellas at "Route del Sol" on youtube with the blue Navistar - but not even sure how to go about that and this is still a learning process for me.

Either way, my email is : [email protected] for anybody willing to get in touch and exchange information. Jgilly69, I will anxiously be waiting for an e-mail.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

SmithEV said:


> Smithy, thanks a lot for the info! I will definitely be trying this.
> 
> jgilly69, I think I had a similar experience with a ChargingPoint charger where it ramped down like that but I wasn't sure what was happening. I'm going to be getting my own charger very soon and conduct this experiment. If this is all there is to it, then I guess I will be home free! My initial problem and why it wouldn't start at Copart was that one of the two 12-volt batteries for the 24-volt system was dead and bad, I tried recharging it with a jump but it would die out again so I replaced it with a new one and now it starts up like normal and keeps a charge, but I have to issue with the one string of batteries on the main traction battery packs. My final goal is to charge the batteries with solar like those fellas at "Route del Sol" on youtube with the blue Navistar - but not even sure how to go about that and this is still a learning process for me.
> 
> Either way, my email is : [email protected] for anybody willing to get in touch and exchange information. Jgilly69, I will anxiously be waiting for an e-mail.


I have given a ton of thought about charging while mobile and its just an absolute pain in the ass to do with these step vans. The charging from the 240VAC line is pretty straight forward but it will not charge while the unit is running since the CanBus needs to see the battery BMS give the proper canbus codes to start the onboard charger and the whole unit processes the charge with the battery balance etc.... You could setup you own onboard charger and maybe tie it into a high voltage AC line which is a direct connection to the "Smith Power" box under the firewall cover. It would only work when all the contactors are on. - I was thinking that maybe a Thunderstuck EV 370VDC charger could do it but you need to feed it with 240VAC at 40amps or whatever you can to that charger which would require lots of extras...

So if you went AC Side for charging with onboard - you could easy place 2kwh of solar on the roof and then just run that to a off grid inverter with its own battery storage, then feed the stepvan batteries with a level 1 ESVE charger at say 16amps slow and low? It would take forever to get charged. It would be much simpler to add a gas powered generator that can pump out 40amps and just burn that thing for 2-4 hours to recharge. 

If you can feed it with 350VDC + power when running you could theoretically increase your range by quite. You can get access to the DC Bus under the firewall grey box. food for thought I guess...


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> I have given a ton of thought about charging while mobile and its just an absolute pain in the ass to do with these step vans. The charging from the 240VAC line is pretty straight forward but it will not charge while the unit is running since the CanBus needs to see the battery BMS give the proper canbus codes to start the onboard charger and the whole unit processes the charge with the battery balance etc.... You could setup you own onboard charger and maybe tie it into a high voltage AC line which is a direct connection to the "Smith Power" box under the firewall cover. It would only work when all the contactors are on. - I was thinking that maybe a Thunderstuck EV 370VDC charger could do it but you need to feed it with 240VAC at 40amps or whatever you can to that charger which would require lots of extras...
> 
> So if you went AC Side for charging with onboard - you could easy place 2kwh of solar on the roof and then just run that to a off grid inverter with its own battery storage, then feed the stepvan batteries with a level 1 ESVE charger at say 16amps slow and low? It would take forever to get charged. It would be much simpler to add a gas powered generator that can pump out 40amps and just burn that thing for 2-4 hours to recharge.
> 
> If you can feed it with 350VDC + power when running you could theoretically increase your range by quite. You can get access to the DC Bus under the firewall grey box. food for thought I guess...



JGilly,

Very good ideas here with the AC charge. Myself, I figured it would be more difficult to charge while in motion than when stopped, so I figured I'd pull over for a day and charge... Frankly, I did not know where to begin with this part but you've given me some very good pointers here - I did have to look up CanBus. I'm not a bad electrician but know nothing about EVs, so I kind of assumed from the gate that I would have to hook the solar panels into the same terminals as the charge port plug on the truck? I'm assuming it has to be AC that comes in through there so I would have to convert the DC from the solar panels into AC onboard somehow? I'm also thinking that there _may_ be some logic involved where the voltage has to be a certain value for it to charge? I haven't tried charging it with 120V yet? Will that work? 

I've gotten into the grey Smith Power box under the firewall - trying to find a location to get battery voltage from the battery packs but separately, being that I was trying to distinguish which battery pack had the charge issue. It wasn't a good spot to check because of how the bus ties into the orange power cords, so I started to think that I needed to find out about the software and how to plug in. Is there a communication port or something outside of the batteries? Perhaps under the dash?


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

SmithEV said:


> JGilly,
> 
> Very good ideas here with the AC charge. Myself, I figured it would be more difficult to charge while in motion than when stopped, so I figured I'd pull over for a day and charge... Frankly, I did not know where to begin with this part but you've given me some very good pointers here - I did have to look up CanBus. I'm not a bad electrician but know nothing about EVs, so I kind of assumed from the gate that I would have to hook the solar panels into the same terminals as the charge port plug on the truck? I'm assuming it has to be AC that comes in through there so I would have to convert the DC from the solar panels into AC onboard somehow? I'm also thinking that there _may_ be some logic involved where the voltage has to be a certain value for it to charge? I haven't tried charging it with 120V yet? Will that work?
> 
> I've gotten into the grey Smith Power box under the firewall - trying to find a location to get battery voltage from the battery packs but separately, being that I was trying to distinguish which battery pack had the charge issue. It wasn't a good spot to check because of how the bus ties into the orange power cords, so I started to think that I needed to find out about the software and how to plug in. Is there a communication port or something outside of the batteries? Perhaps under the dash?


What model stepvan or truck do you have? 

If it is a Copart GEN2000 (A123 System) stepvan there is a little cover below the dash, there are four communications ports. (3) are Serial connection (1) is a specialty plug. The three serial ports are all canbus - VCAN, BCAN and TCAN... VCAN = Vehicle Can Bus- All the stuff you would think of ABS, Controls, Controller. BCAN = Battery Canbus this is what communicates to the VCAN. TCAN is telemetry canbus and it connects to the SmithLink Software via 3G cell which from what I can tell is offline. If you get the little 

There is SOOO Much to these units and many many different systems and check and balances. When it comes to charging the charge connector uses a resistor that tells the controller what the maximum charge rate is, without this the unit will just charge at MAX which is 60Amps. I have been charging with a 32amp charger and it is consistently pulling 44amps when connected, almost the maximum I can output with the corded charge cable I have. Once it goes thru the end of charge cycle it drops down to 1-2 amps and the onboard balancing happens. I recommend you buy one of these - PEAK USB CAN Adapter IPEH 002021


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

Battery data sheet for those who are interested...


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

So, I went and started charging the batteries earlier today and it charged for 8-hours when the charger decided it was done and "charged"- but my yellow bar battery wasn't charged yet and has always remained at 4 bars:

















So, I decided to charge it a second time to see if the yellow bars would come up, and they didn't after 5-hours of more charging at low output - they stayed the same. It seems that it would charge very low as it cycled around through the charged batteries and then it'd spike in intervals when it came out to the yellow bar battery? Anyhow, my next step is to hook in a PC like you'd done, JGilly, and see what type of feedback I get? I'm guessing the BCAN port, JGilly? Also, JGilly, what is the fourth alternate port you mentioned that is next to the three? I looked through that stockpile of info you provided but haven't found it just yet. What I did find and wanted to confirm was what the red fault symbol meant on the battery interface, and as I assumed it meant "battery fault".


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

SmithEV said:


> So, I went and started charging the batteries earlier today and it charged for 8-hours when the charger decided it was done and "charged"- but my yellow bar battery wasn't charged yet and has always remained at 4 bars:
> 
> View attachment 122598
> View attachment 122599
> ...


 You might have too much of a voltage deviation between each of the 4 strings....IE 1&2 = 375V, 3 is 350v and 4 is 375V so the contactors for each string 1, 2 & 4 would turn on, but the contactor for #3 would stay open. When you start up is there 8 distinct clicks? its tough to hear but if you only hear 6 or so that would be a good indication. It might be worth it to discharge the van down to get it near the voltage of the other packs. Worst case you have a bad cell and its charging to fast, not allowing the other cells to charge up causing a low voltage pack/ disconnect. 

The 4th port is for communications to the controller and programming, specific software is required (P146.exe and P176.exe). I believe it is pin # 9 & 10 that are Canh and CanL for your canbus connection. I was able to connect to this and pulled some Canbus signals down. With the software and cable you can read and program the truck on this port via Canbus and Rs232. 

Hope this all helps!


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

Jgilly, I found more info on the ports in the SOP folder - dense folder there. It seems that I'm going to need the PEAK CAN adapter you mentioned and PCAN Explorer 4 software? I'm going to look for that. Would these instructions put me where I want to be? It shows a log mode for "charge"??


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

JGilly, I've also noticed about the how you're to supposed to let the batteries get low just like you said - I read somewhere in the paperwork that you're supposed to do it once a month when you're driving it regularly. I'll be trying this soon but it might be a few weeks before I decide to drive it and get an idea how far it will go on 3 good batteries.


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

I recently bought a 2012 Smith Newton, the box truck style from Frito Lay. Well not exactly bought... I asked the seller to only ship it when it was confirmed to be able to drive/charge correctly, but they "misunderstood" and shipped it to me anyway! I had to pay the tow truck driver $3000 and sure enough the truck wouldn't charge or drive. Well, it charged string 1 out of 4 perfectly fine, but the other strings won't budge. String 2 is at 3 bars, and strings 3/4 show completely dead. After a day the Smith display won't load when I turn the key, it only appears while charging. The seller advised I leave it on the charger for several days, and then I found a technical service bulletin that describes a condition where the batteries self-destruct when you leave it on the charger for several days! The only advice it gave was to power off the 24v and pull out the 4 pucks to stop the drain from getting worse, but did not describe a fix (I assume that would have been up to Smith techs who are all scattered to the winds).

At this point, I have no idea if these A123 batteries are ruined. What should be my next steps? Should I buy those PCAN dongles and try to run some kind of commands?


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

BigChief said:


> I recently bought a 2012 Smith Newton, the box truck style from Frito Lay. Well not exactly bought... I asked the seller to only ship it when it was confirmed to be able to drive/charge correctly, but they "misunderstood" and shipped it to me anyway! I had to pay the tow truck driver $3000 and sure enough the truck wouldn't charge or drive. Well, it charged string 1 out of 4 perfectly fine, but the other strings won't budge. String 2 is at 3 bars, and strings 3/4 show completely dead. After a day the Smith display won't load when I turn the key, it only appears while charging. The seller advised I leave it on the charger for several days, and then I found a technical service bulletin that describes a condition where the batteries self-destruct when you leave it on the charger for several days! The only advice it gave was to power off the 24v and pull out the 4 pucks to stop the drain from getting worse, but did not describe a fix (I assume that would have been up to Smith techs who are all scattered to the winds).
> 
> At this point, I have no idea if these A123 batteries are ruined. What should be my next steps? Should I buy those PCAN dongles and try to run some kind of commands?


Hey Big cheif - Will it even turn on? I would be inclined to drop the voltages in the battery's to see if you can get them closer to each other. The problem is that the contactors when it starts up should "close" to allow for charging and it sounds like they are so far out of balance that they wont engage all of the eight contactors. When it starts up you should hear 8 different clicks. If not that is #1 problem, and you need to get all the battery's closer in voltage. I assume this is a A123 pack not a valance truck?


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

Yes, it is A123. I am waiting on some PCAN adapters to check the states of the cells. Someone had suggested I connect jumpers between battery packs in parallel to balance them manually; what would be the easiest way to try that, open both battery box lids and carefully use jumper cables? I unplugged one of the charger plugs from a battery string and tried a multimeter on the inlets but read no voltage; are there contactors inside the battery boxes?


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

I got the PCAN adapters today and ran the Smith SCANNAR. Not looking great, seems like I have 4 modules with a single bad cell, and one module with 2 bad cells (all in dark blue). I assume the A123 batteries make it too difficult to swap out single cells, and that I'll need 5 working modules to get this online again?

I wonder what would have caused individual cells to fail in such a scattered fashion like that. I can see why A123 isn't really around anymore. I emailed the skeleton crew remaining at their offices and they told me to get lost, of course.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

BigChief said:


> I got the PCAN adapters today and ran the Smith SCANNAR. Not looking great, seems like I have 4 modules with a single bad cell, and one module with 2 bad cells (all in dark blue). I assume the A123 batteries make it too difficult to swap out single cells, and that I'll need 5 working modules to get this online again?
> 
> I wonder what would have caused individual cells to fail in such a scattered fashion like that. I can see why A123 isn't really around anymore. I emailed the skeleton crew remaining at their offices and they told me to get lost, of course.


You can get some replacement battery's. If your interested in giving Thunderstruck a call they have some units that have taken out of the step vans. Another option is to pull the units out and manually charge those low cells. 

One way would be to make a Jumper and manually jump from one pack series ( SBS1 to SBS3 for example) to another. When you look at the design for the connectors on the battery pods the + /_ are on separate ports. So one has the positive and the other has the negative. You need to be super careful doing this since you can dump all that voltage to the low packs very very quickly and possibly cause a fire from the hot connectors etc... like 600amps at a moment. Another way would be to get it up to its minimum low balance voltage and it will burn off the high cells. I think the cell in SBS2 is shot! That one is going to be your holdout.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

Here are some units that drop right in. 





__





Batteries :: Used A123 Pouch Modules


A123 modules charge to 92v at 60ah Price lowered to $520 each Four modules shown in first image 98 lbs each 26s3p configuration Approx 10 6 watts/ dollar 27 x 7 x 10 tall We disable online shipping estimates for lithium as the cart is unable to calculate hazmat shipping nor can we ship these out...




www.thunderstruck-ev.com


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

jgilly69 said:


> You can get some replacement battery's. If your interested in giving Thunderstruck a call they have some units that have taken out of the step vans. Another option is to pull the units out and manually charge those low cells.
> 
> One way would be to make a Jumper and manually jump from one pack series ( SBS1 to SBS3 for example) to another. When you look at the design for the connectors on the battery pods the + /_ are on separate ports. So one has the positive and the other has the negative. You need to be super careful doing this since you can dump all that voltage to the low packs very very quickly and possibly cause a fire from the hot connectors etc... like 600amps at a moment. Another way would be to get it up to its minimum low balance voltage and it will burn off the high cells. I think the cell in SBS2 is shot! That one is going to be your holdout.


Thanks, that is probably a last resort as it looks like I need at least 5 modules at $520 each plus the cost of a palette worth of Hazmat shipping... that's not going to be cheap.

From what I'm learning, each cell is really 3 pouch cells together in parallel, so if one pouch cell is truly dead, the diagnostics might have no way of knowing?

I don't see how manually charging the low cells would help, they are below 2500mv which is supposed be where lifepo4 takes permanent damage. I was also told by an ex-Smith tech that 2000mv is the threshold where the BMS will no longer attempt to charge the cells back up. Those reading at 1900, 1700, or 1300 have got to be pretty much toast, right? I would think if they can be brought back up they would continue to throw the whole pack out of balance going forwards.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

BigChief said:


> Thanks, that is probably a last resort as it looks like I need at least 5 modules at $520 each plus the cost of a palette worth of Hazmat shipping... that's not going to be cheap.
> 
> From what I'm learning, each cell is really 3 pouch cells together in parallel, so if one pouch cell is truly dead, the diagnostics might have no way of knowing?
> 
> I don't see how manually charging the low cells would help, they are below 2500mv which is supposed be where lifepo4 takes permanent damage. I was also told by an ex-Smith tech that 2000mv is the threshold where the BMS will no longer attempt to charge the cells back up. Those reading at 1900, 1700, or 1300 have got to be pretty much toast, right? I would think if they can be brought back up they would continue to throw the whole pack out of balance going forwards.



They can be brought back up. The BMS will control it after 2.5v, but the problem is the SBS2 pack - that one cell will be too low and is most likely shot. I think Brian at thunderstruck EV has a way to connect to the BMS Units but again you need to manually charge it up. They sell a charger that you can buy that can be programed to just plug in and will charge up each pack. Here is a skematic of the battery packs and how to connect to them...


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

Very great information here! Thanks BigChief, JGilly.

Im just now doing what JGilly recommended a couple months ago about draining the batteries down and charging them back up to solve my single battery pack that won't charge (#3) - the thing about the open contractors not closing. Unfortunately, I didn't do it right or it didn't work. I got the SOC down to the last bar and where a little red light illuminated on the battery HMI:









After I plugged in the charger, it shows what each pack had left in power, but as usual the little red lights next to pack 3 were not illuminating like on the other packs. JGilly, perhaps I should have let the battery packs go lower or was this low enough? I thought about leaving the vehicle ON at the ChargingPoint location until they went completely dead? But opted to try that another day after some feedback from JGilly.:









This is what it looked like after several hours of charging and I decided to stop and head home since the lights still hadn't illuminated on pack #3 - which I'm assuming means that its not charging. They've never lit up on that one:










Anyhow, Im in process of purchasing the PCAN cable and doing the same deal as BigChief. Worse case scenario, Im willing to drive down to Santa Rosa, CA (Thunderstruck) from Oregon for a replacement, and also interested in this charger you mentioned with the programming option, JGilly, what is it called?


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

Well that is probably a indication that you have a low cell in that pack that is holding it back. I think the PCAN unit can tell you what the voltages are but in order to correct it you will need to get that one cell back up to the minimum voltage. One way would be to get the packs back to a similar low state of charge (Just above the low pack) and parallel them using a jumper. This will be a manual way to get the pack up in voltage without having to use that charger. You can get the unit from thunderstruck, but just don't go crazy with it, charge it slowly since you are trying to bring that low cell up just to the minimum cut off voltage, then let the internal bms take over.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

I have this charge cord if you want to borrow it? I will for sure need it back since I need to return it to the guy who loaned me the whole battery Pod.


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

JGilly, thats bad ass! - so that I can charge the one pack on its own with another? I may take you up on that, but I may as well make one too, if possible. I think you mentioned 600 amps on this jumper procedure? I may need to break out some dielectric gloves and face shield. Anyhow, I looked around on Thunderstruck for the charger and may give them a call and hopefully the price isn't ridiculous. But I will have more information soon when I run the SCANNAR.


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## rosstex1 (Aug 12, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> I was given a nice gift related to these trucks and vans! Please message me and I will try to hook anyone up with a smith van or truck.


i am a new user of this site with a newly purchased Smith step van. as a new user, i cannot message you outside of this post. how can one reach you to get a copy of the software and info you have? i have a few issues and think it would help greatly. Thanks
Doug


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

rosstex1 said:


> i am a new user of this site with a newly purchased Smith step van. as a new user, i cannot message you outside of this post. how can one reach you to get a copy of the software and info you have? i have a few issues and think it would help greatly. Thanks
> Doug


I shot over a conversation, let me know what questions you have. Where did you manage to pick it up? Copart?


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## rosstex1 (Aug 12, 2021)

Yes it came from Copart. Its intact and wants to run, just been sitting so long it has a few electrical issues.


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

A few questions if anyone knows:

1 - I took a picture of a single 84v module, and took the side cover off. Is there a way to individually charge each cell from only this side? The other side seems to have a cover that's not made to come off. I have a charger that is meant for single LiFePo4 cells, so I could hook it up with alligator clips or something to bring up low cells.










2 - To readdress a module, I'm supposed to use a dongle that goes from the module's 10-pin connector (there's apparently a board on both the positive and negative side of the module), to the PCAN dongle. Does anyone know what the name of the 10-pin connector would be, and what the pinout would be to translate it to the DB-9 on the PCAN?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

BigChief said:


> 1 - I took a picture of a single 84v module, and took the side cover off. Is there a way to individually charge each cell from only this side? The other side seems to have a cover that's not made to come off. I have a charger that is meant for single LiFePo4 cells, so I could hook it up with alligator clips or something to bring up low cells.
> 
> View attachment 123301


Since you can reach both terminals of each cell group to measure the voltage, you can reach them to clip on a charger.

In this common module design, with both tabs on the same end of the cell, all cell levels are accessible from the same side of the module.


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh, thanks! I am not sure exactly how the cells are grouped, but it seems like the best hint is those little holes stamped in the middle of the rows, are exactly 26 holes, and I know it's a 26 series battery. Should I be charging them like I illustrate with the colored squares? The way I'm holding the multimeter probes in the picture was giving reverse polarity to what was marked on the battery, but by placing the probes in the matching color areas it was giving 3.3v at polarity that coincides with the battery markings.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

BigChief said:


> Oh, thanks! I am not sure exactly how the cells are grouped, but it seems like the best hint is those little holes stamped in the middle of the rows, are exactly 26 holes, and I know it's a 26 series battery. Should I be charging them like I illustrate with the colored squares? The way I'm holding the multimeter probes in the picture was giving reverse polarity to what was marked on the battery, but by placing the probes in the matching color areas it was giving 3.3v at polarity that coincides with the battery markings.
> 
> View attachment 123303


It looks like a 26s 3p module, meaning that each group has three cells in parallel. That means that at each end of the module there is a set of cell terminal tabs for three cells (the left end of Group 1 in your annotated photo), and at each connection point in-between there is a set of cell terminal tabs for six cells (three from the positive end of one group, and three from the negative end of the next group); the cell tabs are connected together with metal channels and you have noted the sets with boxes. The channel which bridges the negative end of one set to the positive end of the next set (so the boundary between cell groups) looks different because it has a texture. So where the red meter probe is located is the negative end of group 1 and the positive end of group 2; the meter is measuring Group 2, and what you labelled as "Group 2" is the third group.

Each of those sets of cell tabs are connected by a wire to the BMS - you can see the BMS wires connected at each of them, on the part with the hole or the adjacent part (with the texture).

The same modules (made by A123 Systems and used in Smith trucks) appeared in an earlier thread, again with a discussion of the layout:
Question about balancing 26S/3P, 60 Ah A123 Brand 5KW modules

Other A123 modules appear to be similarly constructed, such as these in a for sale ad:
For Sale: A123 Battery Modules 10s3p and 13s3p with MBB & BCM (Michigan)


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

BigChief said:


> Oh, thanks! I am not sure exactly how the cells are grouped, but it seems like the best hint is those little holes stamped in the middle of the rows, are exactly 26 holes, and I know it's a 26 series battery. Should I be charging them like I illustrate with the colored squares? The way I'm holding the multimeter probes in the picture was giving reverse polarity to what was marked on the battery, but by placing the probes in the matching color areas it was giving 3.3v at polarity that coincides with the battery markings.
> 
> View attachment 123303



It is actually group 1, 2 & 3. I will have to look thru the schematics, but I think the connectors are listed on the wiring diagram.


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## rosstex1 (Aug 12, 2021)

i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

rosstex1 said:


> i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!


Take the cover off of the dash. Look for a keyed connector, possibly even with a key. Start there. 99% sure you will find something.


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

rosstex1 said:


> i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!


My box truck version uses the same plain metal key for the door and the ignition. If yours is like that and it almost certainly is, then you can have any competent locksmith take apart the door cylinder and reverse engineer a key from that. There are mobile automotive locksmith vans where they carry equipment for that. Ask for a quote but it shouldn't be more than $100 for the locksmith's time and trouble. Fancy keys with RFID chips in them are expensive but this key is just a hunk of steel which is a nice change of pace for typical 2010-2012 vehicles. You might as well make several copies of the new key, I had it done at the local hardware store for $2 each.

It is a X236 (HY14) key blank.


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## rosstex1 (Aug 12, 2021)

well i have another question. i have started to get my d75 back to life and i dont have any of the RFID fobs, wristbands or master cards. has anyoine else messed with this setup? since only the back door is keyed, it would be nice to utilize the keyless entry and start features plus without an rfid devce registered to the van, everytime the back door is opened, the alarm goes off. . i iam still waiting for the drive batteries to charge but every thng ekse seems to be respondung as it should. i anm just not sure if i can get the items needed to proigram new RFID tags or keyless remote to the van. it looks like it is proprietary to FedEx. the red arm band, new black band and master card. i am waiting to hear back from utilimaster or touchtroics but wanted tosee if anyoneelse has had luck in this area.


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

I figured out what people were talking about with the battery groups. The trick is to criss-cross my hands as I'm going down the battery pack to read all 26 series because the the polarities flip-flop/zig-zag. Conveniently all 8 of the modules in a battery tub have the tab-side facing outwards, so as long as you can use a forklift or engine hoist to lift the pack out of the plastic tub, you can remove the plastic lids and manually check all voltages without dissembling the pack further.

I did find the cells that Smith was reporting as 4mv, but according to my multimeter they are actually 547mv. I'm using a lab DC power supply to try charging it up to 3.3v like the rest of the pack, to see what will happen. That should be fine as long as I keep an eye on it? It seems to top out at 30 watts and right now it's only charging at 5.

What would cause a single cell group to fall so far below the rest of the pack anyway? I can't imagine anything besides some actual physical damage.

Also, when removing the battery pack from the tub, I notice there's no resistive heating unit in the pack. How was anyone buying these Smith Newtons supposed to charge them when they're out in below freezing weather? Was it just wishful thinking that they would never make it out of California? It wouldn't have been expensive to add, effectively a rubber electric blanket wrapped around the pack could bring the temp up while plugged into a charger before the charging begins.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

BigChief said:


> The trick is to criss-cross my hands as I'm going down the battery pack to read all 26 series because the the polarities flip-flop/zig-zag.


Or just expect that the measured polarity will alternate between positive and negative as you go down the pack and the cell directions alternate.



BigChief said:


> Also, when removing the battery pack from the tub, I notice there's no resistive heating unit in the pack. How was anyone buying these Smith Newtons supposed to charge them when they're out in below freezing weather? Was it just wishful thinking that they would never make it out of California? It wouldn't have been expensive to add, effectively a rubber electric blanket wrapped around the pack could bring the temp up while plugged into a charger before the charging begins.


Battery heating is (or at least initially was) optional on the Nissan Leaf, too. Lots of EVs, and especially local-use commercial vehicles, never leave the region in which they are first purchased.

A wrap-around heating blanket wouldn't be the optimal configuration. Modules of stacked pouch cells like this should be heated or cooled from one or more of the faces which are against the edges of the cells... if the electrical connections are on top, that means the bottom and long sides are suitable. A heated tray is the easiest way. Any heating system will only work well if the cells are connected to the heated edge by metal fins, as are used in most modules of this style that are designed for active cooling (e.g. the LG Chem modules in the Chevrolet Bolt and Chrysler Pacifica PHEV).


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

After a lot of work, I finally got all of the cells in the packs jumped above 2.5v.

The thing is, I manually took Pack 1 out of the truck, swapped a module out and charged the low cells to be close to the rest of the battery. When I put it back and charged the truck from AC it charged that whole battery to full and eventually balanced it.

Pack 2 on the other hand, I simply "jumped" the pack voltage up. The low cells went all the way up to 3.0v and the highest cells went up to 3.2v, which should be fine.

From there I tried to put the truck back on the AC charger. When I do so however, something is weird. When I fixed Pack 1 it was willing to charge both batteries in it, but this time around it refuses to seemingly turn on the charger for Pack 2. I'm not sure if I've actually _ever_ seen Charger #2 turn on though. The circuit breaker panel does show that Charger #2 is energized when I plug in the J1172:


















Pack 2 before jumping:










Pack 2 after jumping:










System is giving Yellow "caution" flags about the voltage difference between cells, but the documentation says Yellow shouldn't be enough to stop things from functioning? Maybe Yellow is enough to disallow Chager #2 as a failsafe? I'm not sure:










I'm getting pretty close to fixing this thing! Any ideas?


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

Let me pose some simpler questions to narrow this down, if anyone is still around 

Two things that have me stumped are that I've never seen charging indicated on battery tub #2, and that the two strings in #2 have been showing as very low SOC percentages this whole time, even though the pack voltages are quite high.

Has anyone ever seen "Charger 2" on this screen to be active? From what I've read, the truck has two chargers, but they are both contained inside the single charger box. I'm not sure if this app considers that to all be "Charger 1", or if there is indeed a Charger 2 and it is inactive for some reason. The circuit breaker box shows a green light for Charger 02 so I'm not sure what else the issue could be:










As shown below, the SOC levels on SBS3 and SBS4 are 5% and 20% respectively, yet the minimum/average cell voltages are plenty high because I jumped the packs. What dictates the SOC? Is the battery management system storing some colomb-counting values in memory, so that it becomes confused if I manually jump a pack? That's my best guess:


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

I want one of these vans


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## ITubego Youtube (Sep 21, 2021)

Solarrx said:


> I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


The key should be on the top of the dash if you remove the cover! How did it go? A wiring diagram or manual could also be helpful to me since I bought one.


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

cricketo said:


> I want one of these vans


Sadly there were tons of them that people bought cheap and ripped apart to resell the batteries on eBay. I can't imagine there's more than 50 on the road at this point. Luckily there's lots of electric Class 6 trucks that are the same size and capability, but they are all 2020/2021 models from BYD, Peterbilt, Lion etc and I can only imagine that brand new they'd all run over $200,000. I've tried to get quotes to check and most people won't give me the time of day, even though owning this Smith makes me an official trucker!

If anyone else has gotten quotes for the more modern electric class 6 trucks, please share them here.

The only one I managed an actual quote on was the Kenworth K270E. They wanted over $370,000 and that's not a typo.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

BigChief said:


> Luckily there's lots of electric Class 6 trucks that are the same size and capability, but they are all 2020/2021 models from BYD, Peterbilt, Lion etc and I can only imagine that brand new they'd all run over $200,000.
> ...
> 
> The only one I managed an actual quote on was the Kenworth K270E. They wanted over $370,000 and that's not a typo.


I suppose that shouldn't be surprising. Battery-electric transit buses cost much more than double the price of a comparable diesel variant of the same model of bus... so the big ones with long range batteries are well over a million dollars.


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## dsbajwa11 (Sep 25, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> I was given a nice gift related to these trucks and vans! Please message me and I will try to hook anyone up with a smith van or truck.


hi I just bought one too. Stuck on the smith logo. Need any help I could get.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

dsbajwa11 said:


> hi I just bought one too. Stuck on the smith logo. Need any help I could get.


Where did you find one ?


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

dsbajwa11 said:


> hi I just bought one too. Stuck on the smith logo. Need any help I could get.


Is this a 2010-era with Valence Batteries or a 2012-era with A123 batteries?

If it is the 2012 with A123 batteries, the most important thing you'll need is a PCAN USB adapter so that you see what's going on with the individual battery levels. The official adapter is $225 and it is called the "IPEH-002021", but I found a knockoff for $55. I bought two of the knockoff and can confirm they both work fine, but the power cuts out on one of them if I wiggle the USB. For the price difference, I'm not complaining. Here's the link anyway, they ship from China so it might take a few weeks: 55.8US $ |Replace PEAK PCAN USB IPEH 002021 IPEH 002022 PCAN View|Contactors| - AliExpress

If any individual battery cells are below 2.5v, the entire truck will refuse to drive or charge. To bring up the voltage I know three methods, with varying levels of danger and expense.


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## dsbajwa11 (Sep 25, 2021)

BigChief said:


> Is this a 2010-era with Valence Batteries or a 2012-era with A123 batteries?
> 
> If it is the 2012 with A123 batteries, the most important thing you'll need is a PCAN USB adapter so that you see what's going on with the individual battery levels. The official adapter is $225 and it is called the "IPEH-002021", but I found a knockoff for $55. I bought two of the knockoff and can confirm they both work fine, but the power cuts out on one of them if I wiggle the USB. For the price difference, I'm not complaining. Here's the link anyway, they ship from China so it might take a few weeks: 55.8US $ |Replace PEAK PCAN USB IPEH 002021 IPEH 002022 PCAN View|Contactors| - AliExpress
> 
> If any individual battery cells are below 2.5v, the entire truck will refuse to drive or charge. To bring up the voltage I know three methods, with varying levels of danger and expense.


What are the options to charge them up. U willing to sell me one of the connectors alibaba is saying deliver by nov 2


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## BigChief (Mar 20, 2011)

dsbajwa11 said:


> What are the options to charge them up. U willing to sell me one of the connectors alibaba is saying deliver by nov 2


Sure, I'll sell you one for what I paid, I sent you a message.


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## rosstex1 (Aug 12, 2021)

Solarrx said:


> I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


did you ever find anytihg on your van? we got one of these too9 and it took a month or so but it is alive and running. if you still have yours and need any assistance, i am in long beach.


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## rosstex1 (Aug 12, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> I think you have a low voltage cell in that pack. I would keep it on the charger and it will bring that one pack up... slowly abet slowly. I watched the final charging from the controller and it ramped down to 1-4amps, which allows the onboard balancers to take over. I have a zip file with the scanner software but cant seem to upload it to the site. Please send me a message and I will send you an email.
> 
> I have some better specific drawings to the stepvan file is huge! 26MB


Could i get y9u to send me the drawings you have for the step van? i am in need of them to figure out a few issues i have. i can create a shared folder on my google drive and you can upload them directly if that helps.i would just bned an email address thanks 
Doug


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## Supervstech (11 mo ago)

Well…
I just bought one of the staples valence based vans… 

but got the A123 packs of batteries…

any possible way to hook them up?


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

Big Chief and JGilly,

I finally got the SCANNAR going on this thing. Here is the status, all I got is ONE bad cell. Big Chief, I neglected to get a picture of the charger screen to see if charger 2 lit up but I'll get a pic for you soon if needed.

May I have an option from either of you? JGilly, ya still there?


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

SmithEV said:


> Big Chief and JGilly,
> 
> I finally got the SCANNAR going on this thing. Here is the status, all I got is ONE bad cell. Big Chief, I neglected to get a picture of the charger screen to see if charger 2 lit up but I'll get a pic for you soon if needed.
> 
> May I have an option from either of you? JGilly, ya still there?


Did the cleaning of the cables work? I still think the issue maybe the cables. I will hook my van up tonight to see what If this is similar to what your seeing on the screen. I just don't remember what it was that was causing a similar issue on my van.


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

Supervstech said:


> Well…
> I just bought one of the staples valence based vans…
> 
> but got the A123 packs of batteries…
> ...


 Ok So I am confused? You got a van, but it has the valance packs in it and you want to convert to A123? or it has A123 cells in it. Smith made a Gen 2000 van that used the A123 packs, if it runs use it!


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

jgilly69 said:


> Did the cleaning of the cables work? I still think the issue maybe the cables. I will hook my van up tonight to see what If this is similar to what your seeing on the screen. I just don't remember what it was that was causing a similar issue on my van.


Hey John,

I unplugged the end with round plug on both packs at the enclosure opposite of the battery, but I just blew it out with mouth, and I only blew the cord end not the one at the enclosure. I took out the puck-style disconnects first and switched off the 24V for good measure, but still wasn't confident on whether I should spray contact cleaner or computer cleaner, and the other side of the cord, the rectangular shaped one on the battery packs, was a little more difficult to take out so I decided to go back this weekend.

I'm wondering if you have any info on the fault codes? Like "RE" and the other ones?


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

Solarrx said:


> I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


Hi there, would like to check in to see if you were able to get it started. The FedEx Smith D75 has the keyless swiper so were you able to bypass? There is a video on Youtube wih a guy riding this truck and his keyless bypass could be seen open and possibly hot wired. Let me know


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

Solarrx said:


> I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


Hi there,,


jgilly69 said:


> If you take the cover off the top of the dash you should find a key! Did you ever get it started? I managed to buy one and am also looking for a manual or some sort of wiring diagram.


Hmm, this Step Truck doesn't seem to have the key to be inserted, it has a keyless wireless key panel. Do you know how to bypass it?


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

LoveToFixAndUndestandEV said:


> Hi there, would like to check in to see if you were able to get it started. The FedEx Smith D75 has the keyless swiper so were you able to bypass? There is a video on Youtube wih a guy riding this truck and his keyless bypass could be seen open and possibly hot wired. Let me know


I didn't bypass my keyless system. I just took it out, and disconnected the horn up front. I don't have access to the locks on the keyless system but you can get new keys made for the utili-master locks. You can find a key / plug under the black dash cover. Chances are high that it actually has a key in it .


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

Solarrx said:


> I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?


Hi there, may I Ask you how did you get your D75 FedEx started as it has a keyless start system? Did you by pass it somehow, if you did, could you share how?


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

SmithEV said:


> Big Chief and JGilly,
> 
> I finally got the SCANNAR going on this thing. Here is the status, all I got is ONE bad cell. Big Chief, I neglected to get a picture of the charger screen to see if charger 2 lit up but I'll get a pic for you soon if needed.
> 
> ...


Hi there, I just got the Van ) used to be Fed Ex's) and would love to run this software to see what condition it is in. Will you be able to send or upload the software? Thanks


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

jgilly69 said:


> I didn't bypass my keyless system. I just took it out, and disconnected the horn up front. I don't have access to the locks on the keyless system but you can get new keys made for the utili-master locks. You can find a key / plug under the black dash cover. Chances are high that it actually has a key in it .


Thanks for pointers. I did take the dash off but found only the ignition key cylinder, no key in it, sad! I also charged up 2 12V batteries and got lock/unlock front doors dash buttons to work. Opened the keyless start system and there are two lights blinking at RFID terminal. The cargo front door and back door are also equipped with same RFID card scanner so I am not sure how to open them. What would you recommend: try to get a new key for the ignition key cylinder or contact the keyless system manufacturer to try to get the RFID card?


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

rosstex1 said:


> i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!


Hey there, did you get a key replaced and how? I am in the same boat


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

SmithEV said:


> Big Chief and JGilly,
> 
> I finally got the SCANNAR going on this thing. Here is the status, all I got is ONE bad cell. Big Chief, I neglected to get a picture of the charger screen to see if charger 2 lit up but I'll get a pic for you soon if needed.
> 
> ...


Hi there, can you email or upload software to a shared google drive? Just got the truck and would like to run diagnostics. Thanks


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

jgilly69 said:


> I had an error on my van stopping it from booting from the startup smith screen. If there are any faults the screen will just display the "Smith logo". I ran the scanner software and found I had the high voltage interlock error. Tracking that down can be a pain in the butt. Its referred to as the Evil loop. It really is just that a loop that goes into every connection on every system. I think I sent you the plans that show the loop, look for the interlock wires.
> 
> But the very very first thing I would do is remove each of the orange high voltage disconnect "pucks" and place them back on, but when you place them on make sure you pull the "handle outwards, then rotate them closed otherwise they will not connect the interlock at the connector. I managed to fix my loop issue with a loose wire, but still had a HV interlock issue which caused by one of the orange pucks. That was one of the root causes of the failure to start up.
> 
> I will see what I can do to get you the software. You will need a CAN adaptor specifically a PEAK USB CAN Adapter IPEH 002021. They are on Ebay used for about $150 and will work with the software. Someone local may have one you can rent or borrow. Also you will need a functioning laptop.


Hi there, can you email or upload software to a shared google drive? Just got the truck and would like to run diagnostics. Thanks


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

BigChief said:


> I got the PCAN adapters today and ran the Smith SCANNAR. Not looking great, seems like I have 4 modules with a single bad cell, and one module with 2 bad cells (all in dark blue). I assume the A123 batteries make it too difficult to swap out single cells, and that I'll need 5 working modules to get this online again?
> 
> I wonder what would have caused individual cells to fail in such a scattered fashion like that. I can see why A123 isn't really around anymore. I emailed the skeleton crew remaining at their offices and they told me to get lost, of course.
> 
> ...


Hi there, can you email or upload software to a shared google drive? Just got the truck and would like to run diagnostics. Thanks


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

jgilly69 said:


> I didn't bypass my keyless system. I just took it out, and disconnected the horn up front. I don't have access to the locks on the keyless system but you can get new keys made for the utili-master locks. You can find a key / plug under the black dash cover. Chances are high that it actually has a key in it .


Do you have any pointers on how to disconnect the keyless system? Also the cargo doors are controlled by the same system, how did you manage to open those?


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## jgilly69 (Feb 27, 2021)

LoveToFixAndUndestandEV said:


> Thanks for pointers. I did take the dash off but found only the ignition key cylinder, no key in it, sad! I also charged up 2 12V batteries and got lock/unlock front doors dash buttons to work. Opened the keyless start system and there are two lights blinking at RFID terminal. The cargo front door and back door are also equipped with same RFID card scanner so I am not sure how to open them. What would you recommend: try to get a new key for the ignition key cylinder or contact the keyless system manufacturer to try to get the RFID card?



The keyless system manufacture wont send a new key. I would just take all of the electric sensors out and put in locks. Yes that ignition key cylinder will start the van. Disconnect the keyless crap, many of those systems can be just overridden with a new switch and put in new hard locks on the doors.


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

I got the wiring diagram for the truck if anyone is in need of one.


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## dsbajwa11 (Sep 25, 2021)

Hi I have a complete step van if anyone is interested in buying. 3/4 battery packs charge up. And 1 only has 2 cells that won’t charge up. Make me an offer.


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## CliffordK (Oct 8, 2011)

dsbajwa11 said:


> Hi I have a complete step van if anyone is interested in buying. 3/4 battery packs charge up. And 1 only has 2 cells that won’t charge up. Make me an offer.


Where are you located? 

There is also a Smith Newton Truck on Craigslist down in LA, no batteries. I'd love to drag it up to Eugene, but it isn't practical to haul at this moment.









2010 Smith Electric Cargo Truck FOR PARTS - auto parts - by owner -...


FOR STORAGE or PARTS 2010 Smith Electric Cargo Truck FOR PARTS, DOES NOT DRIVE Call Dee



inlandempire.craigslist.org


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## dsbajwa11 (Sep 25, 2021)

CliffordK said:


> Where are you located?
> 
> There is also a Smith Newton Truck on Craigslist down in LA, no batteries. I'd love to drag it up to Eugene, but it isn't practical to haul at this moment.
> 
> ...


I’m in Sacramento


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## vadim.khomenko (6 mo ago)

LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV said:


> Hi there, may I Ask you how did you get your D75 FedEx started as it has a keyless start system? Did you by pass it somehow, if you did, could you share how?


O have the same ptobl, inhave no key to by pass, how yo get rid of keyless device?


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## LoveToFixAndUnderstandEV (9 mo ago)

vadim.khomenko said:


> O have the same ptobl, inhave no key to by pass, how yo get rid of keyless device?


You may get the wireless fob from the manufacturer. Let me look up the info and the price the quoted. Thanks


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

dsbajwa11 said:


> Hi I have a complete step van if anyone is interested in buying. 3/4 battery packs charge up. And 1 only has 2 cells that won’t charge up. Make me an offer.


I have the exact same problem on SBS3. Did you have any luck trying to figure it out? I notice you have both the battery and motor fault on the battery interface in the truck cab - I was getting the motor one for a little while but it stopped. After running the SCANNAR software I found a fault on the Vehicle Can Bus with an icon that says "RE" but I cannot figure out what that mean yet but I think it might mean "Rx Error". 

Can anyone throw me a bone here?


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## SmithEV (May 4, 2021)

BigChief said:


> Let me pose some simpler questions to narrow this down, if anyone is still around
> 
> Two things that have me stumped are that I've never seen charging indicated on battery tub #2, and that the two strings in #2 have been showing as very low SOC percentages this whole time, even though the pack voltages are quite high.
> 
> ...


Did you ever get an answeron Charger-2, Big Chief? I not I can hook into mine and let you know what I find. In some previous posts by you when you had first run the software, you had the same fault "RE" icon lit as I do on the Vehicle Can Bus and you seemingly got rid of it by bringing your cells back up.

Did you use an engine hoist or actual forklift to get your pack out? Im wondering how that went if you used and engine hoist (cherry picker)?


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