# Build me the best EV you can for $10k in parts



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

need a better definition of the miata class car. VW old bug/new bug acceptable or is it a fit problem, or cash damage survive-able, price, or ???? I am guessing that a MGB is in that class.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Lets say something less than 20 years old. Specifically it has to be a car that most people wont look at you and wonder why you are driving an old car. So a semi-old car like an early Miata works because it is a modern classic, but anything else would have to be newer less old looking car.


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## coulombKid (Jan 10, 2009)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Lets say something less than 20 years old. Specifically it has to be a car that most people wont look at you and wonder why you are driving an old car. So a semi-old car like an early Miata works because it is a modern classic, but anything else would have to be newer less old looking car.


Because batteries are the single biggest cost, anything under 2000 pounds has a big life cycle cost advantage. Efficiency of the glider in its last life is also a potential cost cutter. Two energy wasters to avoid post conversion are 1) a torque converter, and 2) a hypoid final gear set. As far as age goes one thing to look at is the reliance of the OEM on plastic and rubber parts that will most likely not be available as the originals fail. If a classic is old enough to avoid the plastics and ECM parts stream problems then it better have spent its life in the desert southwest. Chasing rust bubbles is never a good past time.


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## epyon (Mar 20, 2008)

Please , I could build a street legal indy car and and have $3,000.00 left over . But I'm buying my own parts and I can't get any help building my car . I don't want any money , just help with getting parts , and I get nothing .


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

epyon said:


> Please , I could build a street legal indy car and and have $3,000.00 left over . But I'm buying my own parts and I can't get any help building my car . I don't want any money , just help with getting parts , and I get nothing .


 Lol-I don't want help buying parts-just fantasizing about them. If you can design an EV Indy car on paper for $7k please share!


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

Let see, an AC-50 kit for ~$4300, 30 CALB 100Ah cells for ~$4000, a EL-PFC-2000 charger for ~$750, and a DC-DC for ~$150 leaves about $800 for cables, throttle etc. 

The above setup would give you about 31 miles range at 250Wh/mi. at 80% depth of discharge. I'm not sure if you will be able to get 8 second 0-60 EV for $10k.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

StanSimmons said:


> Let see, an AC-50 kit for ~$4300, 30 CALB 100Ah cells for ~$4000, a EL-PFC-2000 charger for ~$750, and a DC-DC for ~$150 leaves about $800 for cables, throttle etc.
> 
> The above setup would give you about 31 miles range at 250Wh/mi. at 80% depth of discharge. I'm not sure if you will be able to get 8 second 0-60 EV for $10k.


It lacks the motor/transmission adapter but otherwise a good choice.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I have been brainstorming this for a bit and would like to see what you guys come up with. I have a few basic requirements: 1) Greater than 30 mile range 2) Not any slower than 8 second 0-60 or mid 16 second 1/4 mile 3) Sub 3000lb car with a Miata being the smallest acceptable. 4) Minimal fabrication with the most difficult thing being maybe fabbing up battery boxes, making some simple motor mounts, or crimping battery cables. 5) Reasonable life expectancy and ease of service (can't require constant fiddling to make work). 6) Readily available parts. I think this is possible and wanted to see if I am missing anything. Heck, if someone can smash these expectations I will be thrilled. Thanks, Josh how the heck do you get hard returns with this forums formatting?


Not doable unless your a volume buyer.
Batteries are you biggest cost,$7,000- 26,880
the 0-60 is you next biggest cost
Distance is next related to battery cost.
Figure that Telsa built a coupe that sells for $40,000, It can do 274 miles, Figuring cost of manufacturing cost to be $10,000, which is skewed by the 285 million loan they had.
Now if we had a budget Battery that sold each cell for $24, then yes.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

brainzel said:


> It lacks the motor/transmission adapter but otherwise a good choice.


 How about the same setup with a Soliton JR and a Kostov HV 9" for about $3,800 to get the 8 second 0-60? That would of course require lower amp hour Calbs or Headways and a different charger but I think it ticks off most of the requirements.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

My thought: buy the batteries first then see what is left over. might end having to use a surplus curtis and a salvage forklift motor. BTW do we have the subject glider vehicle or is that part of the equation of $10K?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> My thought: buy the batteries first then see what is left over. might end having to use a surplus curtis and a salvage forklift motor. BTW do we have the subject glider vehicle or is that part of the equation of $10K?


 The Glider is not part of the price equation. I would like to flush out the plan with no surplus parts just to see if it is possible. I would also like to flush out the entire plan on paper before ever considering buying the parts. The batteries are so dependent on motor and controller choice that I don't think I could buy them first. Large Amp Hour low voltage setups for the Curtis/HPEV system, lower Amp Hour high voltage setups for the Kostov/Junior setup, etc... Think of an Early Miata or a Porsche Boxster as possible gliders.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> How about the same setup with a Soliton JR and a Kostov HV 9" for about $3,800 to get the 8 second 0-60? That would of course require lower amp hour Calbs or Headways and a different charger but I think it ticks off most of the requirements.


I was going to suggest this combo (Kostov 9" and Soliton Junior).

For excellent performance you want to get the full 220 volts and 600 amps which is 132kW. In order of difficulty ....

Calb 60ah. 
(I have sag figures for the 100ah cell but not 60ah so this is a guess. Need a member to tell us voltage sag for this cell in a pack)

You would need a 16 kWh pack to produce 132kW (132/10C * 1.2 for sag). This would be 80 cells in series (80*3.3*60= 15840) and cost at $1.20ah 
$5800.

Headway 10ah. (I have sag figures for the 8ah cell but not 10 so this is a guess. Need a member to tell us voltage sag for this cell in a pack)

You would need a 13 kWh pack to produce 132kW (132/12C*1.2). This would be 5p80s pack 80*50*3.3 = 13200) and cost at $1.25 ah - $5000

A123 20ah black market. (again no pack figures on this but JR has been testing these cells so I have a good guess at sag) You would need a 10 kWh pack to produce 132 kW (132/15C*1.15). This would be 2p80s pack 80*40*3.3=10560 and cost at $1.20ah $3800.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

drgrieve said:


> I was going to suggest this combo (Kostov 9" and Soliton Junior).
> 
> For excellent performance you want to get the full 220 volts and 600 amps which is 132kW. In order of difficulty ....
> 
> ...


I was typing out the same thing (with the A123 solution)
given the range you are looking for I think it's the best solution.

(I'm sure this is partially because it's very similar to my build... Warp11HV, Soliton1, Porsche 944, 96S3P pack of A123's)
I'm right around the $15K mark with only a few things left to buy.
I have a basic charger but will probably build the 10kw DIY charger, and go with the EV display with extras from Electric Motor Werks.

I think 10k is very possible for a short range performance vehicle, you just need to spend wisely and do as much of the work yourself (make battery boxes etc.)


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2012)

Good used Warp9, Synkromotive Controller/Charger, 180/200AH Lithium Cells up to 156 volts and 750 peak amps ability. Good new or if lucky a good used adaptor for your vehicle. On average you'd spend 1K for the adaptor. Might get one for less. Cells will be the largest cost. The motor will have no trouble with 156 volts and 750 peak amps. It will give good street power but not race track power. Don't expect 0-60 in 8 seconds but if the vehicle is light enough you might just get that. I'd go DC all the way if your on a tight budget. The AC 50 is suited for a light weight vehicle like a Miata. Not a performance package but adequate. More oomph for the buck with DC. Be sure your brakes are in excellent working order. Make sure your vehicle is what you want and not just what you have on hand. Don't bother will crappy vehicles. Plenty of excellent VW New Beetles for under 4K now too. Not rust buckets and all the modern amenities you'd want in a vehicle and a unique look as well and not to terrible heavy. I'd go DC with a Beetle. Again don't expect stellar speeds from 0 to 60 but it would be good or better than with a stock ICE. 

Budget minded conversions are possible but you must choose wisely and be willing to accept buying good used parts. 

Be frugal. 

Pete


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## epyon (Mar 20, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Lol-I don't want help buying parts-just fantasizing about them. If you can design an EV Indy car on paper for $7k please share!


Sorry "HIGH ROLLER" some of us can only buy one part a month because we don't make all the money you do . And I do have most of the parts I need and it took a lot of bag lunches and work on the side to do it , that's why I said if I had $7,000.00 I could build that car easy . That is stating a fact based on my budget an tax bracket and parts people would sell to me if the money was there .


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

epyon said:


> Sorry "HIGH ROLLER" some of us can only buy one part a month because we don't make all the money you do . And I do have most of the parts I need and it took a lot of bag lunches and work on the side to do it , that's why I said if I had $7,000.00 I could build that car easy . That is stating a fact based on my budget an tax bracket and parts people would sell to me if the money was there .


 I didn't mean to say anything insulting. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I typically build things as cheaply as possible with used parts, buying and parting things out to get free parts, and generally scrounging my way to the end goal. I have built the bulk of my automotive hobby around that philosophy. Honestly the only automotive event I regularly compete in is one where you build a car to drag race, autocross, and show for under $2012 (typically ICE). My original post is to see if I am correct on the fact that building a decent EV can be done WITHOUT having to resort to my usual scrounging. I have lurked for a long time here while lots of smart people have built spectacular cars without using cast offs. I am just hoping to pick their brains. My original reply to you was hoping to pick yours as well. Being the internet it is sometimes hard to make my intent clear.


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## epyon (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm sorry too . Pain pills , Health care and people going back on there word got to me that day . I planed on doing a Indy Car style street legal car before I got laid off . DMV told me to go ahead an build it , but one guy was giving me problems at DMV til I went over his head . G.M makes long arms that I was gonna put on a ladder type frame and solid rear end to keep it at 500LBS( dragster or sprint car style frame) and bolt a $600.00 big forklift motor to a Quick change axle . Clock the motor to 7,000-10,000 RPM (not live long) and get 120V Curtis controller or a Alltrax off ebay for $450.00 and call it a day . I hope that helps and sorry for my bad day . I had to make the templits for my battery's in 48 degree weather today ........ good times !!


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