# 2002 Kia Rio, Forklift Motor, Total Newb.



## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Hey Everyone,

This build should be be the ultimate test for DIY EV conversions. If I can do it anyone can. I have no experience whatsoever. Ive never changed a car tire, wiper blade, even oil (ha ha). Ive never welded or worked with metal at all.I also have no clue about electronics. I'd like to believe I have the capacity to learn quickly. I just got all the tools I need for Christmas, and ive been learning all I can from this site for 2 months. I got a 2002 Kia Rio(manual) for $150 with a dead ICE.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0008.jpg

I have 2 forklift motors (I really lucked out I think) an 11' series, and I think a 6.7' series (female spline shaft pump motor 2 terminal). Ive been cleaning up the larger motor over the past month.

before:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0214.jpg

after:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/DSC_0010.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0005.jpg

heres the small one:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0221.jpg

I think the 11' is going to be a few inches to long to fit  so I may be stuck using the pump motor. I'll have to see after I figure out how to remove the ICE.

Im thinking of starting at 48 volts but eventually moving to 72, at which time I will advance the motor timing. The 11' motor brushes are on a ring which will make it easy, I havent opened up the smaller motor yet.

So thats where Im at, I'll take all the advice I can get! Let me know what you all think!

P.S Im trying to keep the total build cost $xxx.xx

Cheers!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> So thats where Im at, I'll take all the advice I can get! Let me know what you all think!


Hi Hydron,

Nice clean up on the 11 incher. Kinda looks like a GE. It has a massive DEH (drive end head). You could probably machine 15 pounds off that sucker. And yeah, maybe a bit overkill for your car, but if it can fit in, WTH 

And the pump motor is an Allis Chalmers Norwood (they made their own motors for forklifts up to about 1978). And I think it is like 7.2 or 7.5 inch diameter. If it is in good shape inside all that grime, it would be a strong puller, better than most modern 6.6 inchers. But you'd have to contend with the internal spline shaft 

Go for it.....Good start 

major


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## mrbigh (Dec 31, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> So thats where Im at, I'll take all the advice I can get! Let me know what you all think!
> 
> P.S Im trying to keep the total build cost $xxx.xx
> 
> Cheers!


 Nice motors find...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Hydron

_* I think the 11' is going to be a few inches to long to fit *_

What is it fouling on?, its probably better to move whatever is in the way - If it is the side of the engine bay have a look behind, there is normally a bit of clearance

It may be better to get some performance front struts (second hand) with smaller coil springs (I have some TEIN ones for my Subaru suspension that have springs half the size of the standard ones)

And then dress (means wallop with big hammer) the metal back to get clearance for your motor

do it nicely and then paint it up to look like its meant to be like that


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Hey *Major*, Thanks for the response. Ive recently read through the whole forklift motor thread, and if it wasn't for guys like you and Jim I defiantly wouldn't be doing this, So thanks for sticking to it! I forgot to link the plate pics. Heres the big motor plate.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0212.jpg
Its only 960 RPM at 36 volts, so does that mean if I double the voltage I will only get double the RPM? I dont think that would be enough. 

Heres the smaller motors plate
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0220.jpg
bigger RPM,HP and duty
also I just picked up a 5/8' 9 spline shaft for this from a machine shop. They will attach it to the clutch plate for me if I go with this motor.

heres the link to my photobucket album for anyone thats interested
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/

*Duncan*, Thanks for the info! Ill have to take a look at the wheel well to see how much room can be spared, and see if small springs will help. The bigger motor would defiantly be more fun. I also thought about cutting the shaft off on the CE as this motor has shaft on both ends, I wouldn't want to ruin the future potential of this motor tho.

Once I figure out the motor stuff its controller time. I have the EV-100 forklift controller. Im going to try that out. I see that many have tried and given up.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/DSC_0007.jpg
The controller is apparently good up to 80v but the contactors are only rated for 48v. Maybee I can use them for 72v? hehe dont know if I should try.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hy Hydron

_Its only 960 RPM at 36 volts_

There are two things here - the speed is limited by "back EMF" this is what increasing the voltage fixes - I believe that at 36 volts the motor would probably NOT be limited to 960 rpm - at 72 volts it will probably be limited to ~ 4000rpm

The other "thing" is at what speed will the centrifugal force rip the comm apart or pull the windings out of the armature

I am hoping that my 11 inch motor will be good to 5000rpm

Major can you help us here?

Should we both be stripping our motors and trying to glue some fiberglass banding to the comm segments outside the brush zones???


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Its only 960 RPM at 36 volts, so does that mean if I double the voltage I will only get double the RPM?


Hi Hydro,

Your nameplate reads 6.7 hp at 960 RPM so that is 36.7 lb.ft. rated (1 hr). If you double the voltage to 72V, then at rated current (and torque) you will see about 1920 RPM (13.4 HP). Not too shabby. And being a series motor, at lesser loads, it will be faster, but at lower hp. Depending on gear selection, I would expect you could see 3000 plus RPM at 72V.

And Dunc,

I don't think trying to band comms is a good idea. These should be good for 4000 and that is a good design speed. I think they could probably withstand 5000, but would not operate that high on purpose.

Hydro,

You can always use a simple resistor in series with a 48V contactor coil if you have 72V. It'd get you going for a few cents.

Regards,

major


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Ive recently read through the whole forklift motor thread,


Kool 

1,344 posts, 187,537 views  Amazing thread  Should be put into book form. Maybe a best seller 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html 

I just e-spoke to Jim Husted yesterday. He doesn't visit this board much anymore, but is still kickin'. He did leave us a legacy with that thread.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks Major,

I expect to remain below 4000rpm - except when I am being a hooligan on the track!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Progress update: De-ICEing

Last weekend I removed the radiator, coolant system, exhaust system (reciprocating saw).
Today I removed the engine!! I was worried I would never get it out but it was alot easier than I expected. Took about 3 hours.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0670.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0669.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0672.jpg

I also picked up a couple used UPS batteries, I will be able to get more shortly.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0676.jpg

My next hurdle is removing the gas tank,its half full of gas, it dosent have a plug on the bottom, and the gas lines enter at the top of the tank. So I may have to remove it with the gas in it?!?! We'll see. 

I also have to find some steel to start working on mounts for the motor and batteries.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> My next hurdle is removing the gas tank,its half full of gas, it dosent have a plug on the bottom, and the gas lines enter at the top of the tank. So I may have to remove it with the gas in it?!?! We'll see.


That shouldn't be too difficult, the only place it can spill from, once the pipes are all removed, is the filler neck and that should be upwards or near the top of the tank.

Place some blocks under the tank so that it only needs to drop a small distance and then slowly lower it down balanced on a trolley jack.
You can then decant the gas into cans and use it for your chainsaw, mower or sell it to your neighbours.

The tank is at its most dangerous when it is empty as you then have an enclosed container of highly flamable vapour.
On a windy day take the completely empty tank outside and place it upside down so the lowest point is the filler neck. The fumes will then spill out and disperse, being heavier then air. Then fill the thing with water until you dispose of it.
It goes without saying, no naked lights, sparks, metal on anything abrasive near the tank until the tank is away.

I left my tank outside upsidedown for months before I got rid of it.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

I did 12v bench tests on both motors today, and I think Ive hit a wall. The small motor which I planned on using in the car spins the wrong way for the tranny (2 terminal motor). It continues to spin the wrong way even when I reverse the battery terminal connections. The large motor spins but i hear a click on CE every revolution.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> I did 12v bench tests on both motors today, and I think Ive hit a wall. The small motor which I planned on using in the car spins the wrong way for the tranny (2 terminal motor). It continues to spin the wrong way even when I reverse the battery terminal connections. The large motor spins but i hear a click on CE every revolution.


Hey Hydro,

Walls.....Challenges....you just have to climb over them. Take that pump motor apart and see if you can figure out how to move the connection from the A terminal to the other 2 brushes and then those connections to the lead from the field coil set. That will reverse the polarity to the armature and reverse rotation. Or maybe twist the comm end casting 90°.

On the big motor, sounds like a high comm bar. Can you borrow a dial indicator from that machine shop or take the armature in there and have them indicate it? A skin cut on the lathe may true it up and not cost too much.

Dig into that pump motor and post some pics.

major


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## VoltsCar (Oct 26, 2010)

HydronCollider said:


> My next hurdle is removing the gas tank,its half full of gas, it dosent have a plug on the bottom, and the gas lines enter at the top of the tank. So I may have to remove it with the gas in it?!?! We'll see.


You should be able to run the stock fuel pump and run it out the lines into a container to transfer the gas into another car.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks Major, I hope I can figure it out. I took the motor apart. Heres whats inside
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0698.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/cecasing.jpg
theres more in my photobucket album.
So I color coded the pic of the end cap to make it easier on me, ha ha. Im thinking to reverse the polarity I need to make the yellow terminal connect to the red brushes with no field coil connection, then move the red field coil connection to the yellow brushes. (not sure if thats right, i may have to reverse the field coil connections too?)

I also had another set back, tried to start removing the transmission and the ball joint bolt broke (nut end), and the head end is stripping....ugggggg. might have to try and drill it.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0708.jpg

I also picked up some 1/4' steel for $10 at a scrap yard. I think ill double it up for the adapter plate. Started chunking away at it with the recripicating saw
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0713.jpg


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Heres whats inside
> http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/SAM_0698.jpg
> http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/cecasing.jpg
> theres more in my photobucket album.
> So I color coded the pic of the end cap to make it easier on me, ha ha. Im thinking to reverse the polarity I need to make the yellow terminal connect to the red brushes with no field coil connection, then move the red field coil connection to the yellow brushes. (not sure if thats right, i may have to reverse the field coil connections too?)


Hi Hydro,

Yep, you got the idea. Once you switch the brush connections, field coil polarity remains the same. No alterations required. 










Regards,

major


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Back in business with the motor!!! And I now have a much better understanding of how electric motors work after some trial and error. Last weekend I failed at my attempt to reverse the direction. I turned the end cap cw 90 degrees but kept the connections in the same spots they were before the 90 degree rotation. (I was thinking I was hooking each connection to the alternate set of brushes, which I was) but once the motor still spun in the wrong direction I realized that I need to change the connections relative to the field coils. So this weekend I fixed it. I kept the 90 degree rotation. I connected the A terminal strait to the brushes (90 degrees cw to the brush it was originally connected to) then I cut down & drilled a new lug hole on the copper connection field coil output that originally connected to the brush that I put the A terminal on. I bolted a battery cable to that connection and connected the other end back ccw90 degrees (This cable is outside of the case due to the width). I also bolted a battery cable to the field coil input (battery) connection. (due to the end cap 90 deg rotation there is no longer a terminal hole). 

After reading this back to myself it looks confusing. But I did exactly what me and Major spoke about in my color diagram. This reason it didn’t work for me the first time is I was trying a short cut.

I hope the motor doesn't blow up after all this modification, I'm wondering if I should even attempt advancing the timing. Also an observation I made: the brushes are angeled for the other direction of rotation, tho it dosent seem to be making a difference.

I also got the gas tank out, very messy and stinky.

So now it time to battle the tranny, and what a battle it is. I got the drivers side ball joint finally out. But the cv joint to the tranny is not budging, and I have a huge pry bar. I heard there could be a clip but I didnt see anything.

Its coming along, but my timelines are tough, I'm working with 3-4 hours every sunday.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Back in business with the motor!!! And I now have a much better understanding of how electric motors work after some trial and error. Last weekend I failed ...........So this weekend I fixed it.


Hey kid,

Good job 



> the brushes are angeled for the other direction of rotation, tho it dosent seem to be making a difference.


That angle has nothing to do with rotation. It just keeps the chattering down. The important thing is the centerline of the brush contact patch on the comm and angle from there to the centerline of the pole shoes in the frame. I know it is kind hard to project it over all the uneven surfaces. Maybe a photo and straight edge would help. 

Keep at it. Havin' some good old motor fun now 

major


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

I got my coupler!!! Very excited!! I brought the Shaft for the female spline motor and the clutch plate to a machine shop and a day later they gave me back my coupler. Under $100.








They welded a big chunk of steel in between the shaft and clutch plate, then turned it on the lathe. the hole in the tranny side of the coupler goes just over 2 inches deep as the shaft is 2 inches.The 9 spline male end slides into the female pump motor. Sure hope it works! Probably should have discussed this in the forum first, but once I got that motor spinning in the right direction I couldnt wait to get my hands on a coupler!

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0894.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/SAM_0889.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/SAM_0888.jpg


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

HydronCollider,

This coupler may or may not work. It really depends on if your transmission's main input shaft requires the support given by a "pilot" bearing.

It will be pretty easy to check. If your trans input shaft can be moved radialy this coupler won't work (at least not for long). These type tranmissions required the end of the input shaft be supported by the "pilot" bearing that was usually located in the end of the crankshaft or sometimes in the flywheel.

*Without this spport the input shaft will wobble and eventually tear up/out the front bearing in the transmission*

If your transmission requires a pilot bearing your coupler can probably be modified to work with the addition of a support plate and bearing and a little more mchine work. 

Some pictures of the transmission input shaft and the crankshaft/flywheel will allow us to probably identify the type.


*EDIT,*

Found your photobucket, and located two pictures that pretty much identifies this transaxle as the type that requires a pilot bearing for support of the input shaft.

Not all is lost, as I said you will have to support the outer end of the transsmission input shaft with a bearing. There are several ways to do this. The simplest would be to support the coupler with a bearing that is mounted into a plate bolted to the front of the transmission. you would ned to put a centering bushinto the coupler.

I can recommend that you study how the outer end of the transmission input shaft was supported by engine crankshaft by the pilot bearing (this could be just a bushing). The male / female spline of the motor you are using will not give suffient centering.

DO NOT run this trabsmission without this support, You WILL destroy the transmission eventually if you do.

It can be fixed, just step back, think a bit and get a handle on what needs to be done. You got this far you can get all the way.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Hydron

Jim is right - and possibly a wee bit wrong
The end of the input shaft does need to be supported, however it is possible that your set-up may give sufficient support.

If you put the driveshaft in place how much can the input shaft end move?

If the driveshaft is constrained well enough your coupler will work, it will be putting and extra load on the input shaft which will reduce life but you may get away with it.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks Jim & Duncan.

If thats the case I may be in trouble either way, as the only part of the shaft that will be supported is at the base where the splines are on the coupler. In the female end of the coupler the splines are only there for about the first half inch, then its free air for the remaining 1.5 inches. I drew another color diagram ha ha.









THe spot that you propose I put the bearing is about an inch away fom where the male ed of the coupler meets the female end of the motor. I would think the motor would offer as much support as the bearing would considerint the point of contact with the shaft is still going to be the female spline section of the coupler (where the yellow arrow is pointing)

I hope im missing something. Let me know what you think!!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Thanks Jim & Duncan.
> 
> If thats the case I may be in trouble either way, as the only part of the shaft that will be supported is at the base where the splines are on the coupler. In the female end of the coupler the splines are only there for about the first half inch, then its free air for the remaining 1.5 inches. I drew another color diagram ha ha.
> 
> ...


HydronCollider,

Actually what you are showing isn't all that bad. What* has* to be concentrically located and supported is the smaller diameter (shiny) portion of the input shaft. There can be no runout there. As you can guess shafts need to be supported at both ends. You can see that the support for the engine end of the input shaft comes from the pilot bearing.

If you check, you will find that there is a LOT of slop in the splines where the coupler fits into the motor. This slop compined with the slop in the splines of the coupler mto input shaft is enough to eventually distroy the input shaft bearing.

See if the atached drawing makes sense. You need to concentricaly support the coupler you had made with a bearing, then you need to have a pilot bearing or bushung added inide the coupler to keep the shaft centered in the couper. Since you will no longer need to disengage the trans from the engine a bushing should be ok


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Just a small thought 
The input shaft will not rotate relative to the coupler so a bush or bearing is not needed - just something to support it inside the coupler


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Jim, Wow, thanks for the diagram! Very helpful. I think Duncan also has a good point about the couplers internal shaft support. I think I have a plan to save my wallet and maintain the structural integrity of the coupler (as adding that internal support would require cutting and machining). I will line the inside with a piece of rubber that I can bend past the splines to get inside, then i will fit a metal ring/tube inside the rubber that will also hold the end of the tranny shaft. Im hoping that will be sufficient to hold it. Let me know what you think.

-progress update
Today I finally got the tranny out. I should have drained the fluid first, but at least its out. I also finished cutting my adapter plate, lots of grinding to do still. Since the plate is only 1/4 inch steel I think im going to weld some 1/4 inch steel strips to reinforce it. I also have to work out a brace for the motor as the motor mounts of the bottom to it will have to be a "L" shaped plate.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Quick update. Purchased the rest of my telecom batteries.
12, 12volt 75 ah batteries, Its the best I can find with out spending thousands.

























Also got some work done on my motor mount. The adapter plate got bent tho, I should have used thicker than 1/4 inch steel, But I've come this far so Im not giving up on it.
Few more welds to go.

















With the summer approaching so fast I dont think Im going to try to use the EV100 controller, it will take to long to figure out. I will probably purchase a kelly 72 volt 400 amp controller. Even tho I am only running at 150 amps I would like to have the 400 amp controller for future expansion. It should work ok with 150 amps right? Maybee I should ask Kelly controlls.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

before I head off to work this morning I thought I would try to figure out my battery wiring for 72 volts. Ive done another windows paint diagram, I hope someone can tell me if this is correct.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Went away to Halifax,NS this weekend. While there went to Princess Auto and made a couple purchases.
I got this for JimDear








and this to make cable


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## mrbigh (Dec 31, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> before I head off to work this morning I thought I would try to figure out my battery wiring for 72 volts. Ive done another windows paint diagram, I hope someone can tell me if this is correct.


NO...........
This is more politicaly correct wiring diagram
>
>


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> before I head off to work this morning I thought I would try to figure out my battery wiring for 72 volts. Ive done another windows paint diagram, I hope someone can tell me if this is correct.


Hey Hyrdo,

I can't draw for crap on the computer, but your diagram is trouble. Do NOT wire the batteries like you show. Hopefully somebody with better computer art skills will correct you 

major


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks Guys, Im glad I asked. Im all ears to someone who can help, I'll keep doing research also. I did some reading but apparently I didnt understand the logic.

I just now realized I forgot a terminal on one of the batteries. I hope thats where the problem is.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

k i fixed my error in paint. It is looking better yet? Or do I just have no clue?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

Which wires go to the motor? You should include a motor in your drawing so you don't forget to send wires to the motor. Looks like a closed circuit. 

Pete


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

Your doing pos to pos connections. For a series string you can't do that.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the diagram gottdi, I forgot to mention that my batteries are 12v each, so to achieve 72 volts I need two banks of 6 in series and but them in parallel. I think the diagram you gave me would put me at 144v. I updated my diagram with the motor and added numbers to the batteries so we can discuss what connections between batteries may need to be removed or added. Thanks again for everyones help, I'd be lost with out ya's!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The diagram works but this is neater (the layout, not the drawing).


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

But you may be better off making 'buddy' pairs of matched batteries and then putting in series.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Wow Woodsmith, "The buddy system" I love it! That will save me lots of cable! It looks like it is basicly turning 2 12v 75 ah batteries into 1 12v 150ah battery(via parallal wiring) then wiring each in series. Fun! Can I hook my charger and dc-dc inverter to the same battery terminals that are going to the motor?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

Just what I was thinking as well. Buddy paired. Works with lithium batteries too. Pair them up then series the pairs.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,
Gottdi

You guys all beat my drawing, I was using Adobe Illustrator and I'm slow.

I also like the buddy layout because it offers a path around an OPEN (as in blown up) battery when in competition, give you at least enough power to get off the track.

I was also concerned because his first drawing was, I believe, a dead short. Going to do some serious cable melting.

Jim


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

update

So the size of the bearing i purchased was as close as I could get to the couplers size without going over. I attempted to heat and expand the bearing to slide the coupler/shaft in it. It went half way in then stopped. And it would not move even after an hour of trying, so I hooked up the puller to the bearing housing, then this happened










so after I broke the housing the bearing was still stuck so i hooked up the puller directly to it.










It took one guy on a torx wrench and another with a steel bar, but it finally came off, alot of waisted time.
So to make sure this dosent happen again, I stuck my coupler in the motor and hooked it up to 12volts to get it spinning then took a file to it, now it fits the bearing perfectly (the bearing has a locking collar to stop slipping)
Great, now im still out a bearing housing. decided to try and make one. Welded steel strips in a square a bit smaller than the outside diameter of the bearing, then pressed it in with my bench vice. once I did that I lined it up with the tranny and adapter plat then welded it on.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Quick update:
So yesterday I drilled the holes to attach the motor to my mount. I had to ream or lengthen some of the holes so put the motor in alignment with the coupler. Now its all bolted up










time to hook up the lift



















and drop it in the car 










aaaaand mounted


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

Looks good but now you need to clean the whole mess and repaint it all so it looks nice like your car.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

I finished hooking up the transmission last night, put the wheels back on.... 12 volt test time!!!!! 
http://s1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/?action=view&current=electriccar.mp4
yay!!!!!

I also have some bad news, the head gasket went in my daily driver, 2005 acura el. 








So fixing that killed all my funding for my ev. So now theres a change of plans, I canno longer afford the kelly 72 volt controller, charger, & converter. So its time to be resourceful again, which is good because it will keep me under $1000 total as I origionally planned. So I will now be running the car at 36 volts so I can keep moving forward with the project.

I found a 36 volt ezgo golf cart charger on a classisfied site for $45. When I went to purchase it the guy told me he has the goft cart in the woods behind his house rotting. He said if I can take the whole thing its mine. DEAL!! My uncle and I brought it home in his truck. There were no batteries, after playing with it for a while I realized the motor is dead...too much rust, But the controller is good, 36 volt curtis 1206. Thats what I needed! Got it working on a bench test with my other forklift motor. I also have the pot box from the ezgo.




























So now I have questions, I believe this controller can only handle 250-300 amps peak, so since my batteries are 75ah i will be at 150ah with 6 batteries, which will max out at the peaks, ill have to get a ammeter and make sure i dont push it too much, or fuses haha.
question: since i have 12 batteries can i run them all some how with out increasing the amps past 150. Some sort of system that kicks in the full ones when the others are spent?

also how do contactors work? ha ha, what type of voltage do i feed them to activate them? and how?

what else am i missing to put the controller and potbox in the car?
currently it just the pot box, controller and motor. no fuses, contactors, keys, ect.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> also how do contactors work? ha ha, what type of voltage do i feed them to activate them? and how?


Hey Hydro,

I like your tree hoist  I just posted a Curtis wiring diagram here http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58913 You won't need reverse. You can find more info on the Curtis web site.

And you should be able to wire your batteries in a series parallel combination to work well for 36V.

Regards,

major


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

update time!!
First the golf cart pot box. I ground down the whole frame around it with a angle grinder then painted it, as it was really rusted. Then when I was trying to use it, the shaft would not go in all that way, it was catching on something. So i took it apart and found that the components inside were not secured, Just flopping around only being held a little by electrical wires.










so i drilled some holes and secured the components with small bolts










next i started on a battery box made from old bed frames, This will hold 3 batteries where the Rad use to be.










this should do










next is mocking up the engine bay. getting the components into place, non of this is permanent mostly wired in with rigging wire.










wired the pot box to the throttle cable for a spin test










and it worked, 3 batteries at 36volts. It feels great to see the gas pedal controlling the motor speed.

Next I will hook up a kill switch to some sort of contactor, once I get that working I think i might try driving it down my driveway with 3 batteries. That would give me the EV grin.
I cant wait. Who needs brakes anyways?!? Then if everything works well enough ill take my mocked up items out of the engine bay and make some permanent mounts for them.

I think right now i'm gunna make a paint shop wiring diagram, I'll post it in a bit. I need all the pro's to school me like you did with my battery diagram!! Thanks Guys!!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks to Major for the curtis wiring diagram, I spent many hours studying it and others, so heres my paintshop wiring diagram










the logic:
the switch activates the contactor(this is also the kill switch), which sends volts to the controller (turns controller on only, low amps), the potbox, and high amps to the solenoid. The solenoid is ony activated when the pot box is pressed, which send high amps to the b+ terminal on the controller completing the circuit to the motor. 

On the golf cart there was only the solenoid, so the controler was powered on/off everytime the pedal was pressed. But here the controller stays on via the switch & contactor (i wanted a kill switch). I figure it may be easier on the controller to not be turned off and on all the time? Is there any reason to not do it this way? Let me know what ya'll think!!

Cheers!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Computer died so it's hard to post, using iPod. Hooked up just 1 contactor and drove 100+ feet!!! 3batteries very slow but drives!!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Test drive video, Just 3 batteries, all components are tied and strapped to the engine bay, ha ha. Will work on mounts later.
http://s1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC%20Motor/?action=view&current=SANY0011.mp4


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Test drive video, Just 3 batteries, all components are tied and strapped to the engine bay, ha ha. Will work on mounts later.
> http://s1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/scottarseneau/DC Motor/?action=view&current=SANY0011.mp4


KOOL  I'm proud of ya. We might have you hooked on EVs now


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## MasterTec (Jun 7, 2011)

Hey guys! I'm new here.. and new to EV's in general. I found this thread to be incredibly inspiring!

As an ASE Master Technician I've been wanting to do a project like this for some time. I've recently acquired an '89 Festiva which should be a perfect candidate for this.

It's nice to know that this can be done on a low budget. I'll be lurking around and helping out where and when I can, and when I do start the project I'll be sure to document it here for you guys!

HC! Congrats on your project! I'm looking forward to seeing the final outcome!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks Major, Theres no doubt ya got me hooked!!

MasterTec Welcome! I'll pick your brain! I am new to cars in general. In order to fill my tranny with fluid I had to remove the speed sensor, and when I did so it shattered. I can still plug the hole with whats left over. Since a new sensor cost over $120 locally I would like to know if you think it will work if I replace it (will it still send signal through to the guage or obd2 port?). I dont know if its operation was somehow supported by the ICE or clutch


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## MasterTec (Jun 7, 2011)

HydronCollider said:


> Thanks Major, Theres no doubt ya got me hooked!!
> 
> MasterTec Welcome! I'll pick your brain! I am new to cars in general. In order to fill my tranny with fluid I had to remove the speed sensor, and when I did so it shattered. I can still plug the hole with whats left over. Since a new sensor cost over $120 locally I would like to know if you think it will work if I replace it (will it still send signal through to the guage or obd2 port?). I dont know if its operation was somehow supported by the ICE or clutch


Looks like it may be your lucky day. The wiring diagram shows the speed sensor's signal goes straight to the instrument cluster so yeah the speedometer should still work.










I also found that speedo gear sensor at rockauto.com for $45 + shipping (part number 5600024)


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Ok Im confused about torque. My understanding always was amps=torque volts=speed. So if Im having trouble climbing hills I need more torque? Basically Im having trouble climbing a hill with my 36v setup. I tried adding more batteries keeping it at 36v. First 75 amps, then 150 amps, then 225 amps. I had no better performance climbing hills at 225 amps then i did with less, I just had faster accleration on flat road. Do I need to up the volts too? Im using alot of low power components, but I would like to find the first source of the bottleneck.......Replacing some cables already helped a bit..

ps. Thanks for the info MasterTec it was very helpful


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

HydronCollider said:


> Ok Im confused about torque. My understanding always was amps=torque volts=speed. So if Im having trouble climbing hills I need more torque? Basically Im having trouble climbing a hill with my 36v setup. I tried adding more batteries keeping it at 36v. First 75 amps, then 150 amps, then 225 amps. I had no better performance climbing hills at 225 amps then i did with less, I just had faster accleration on flat road. Do I need to up the volts too? Im using alot of low power components, but I would like to find the first source of the bottleneck.......Replacing some cables already helped a bit..


Hi Hyd,

Yeah, your torque is related to current. That is motor current. The way you describe 75, 150, then 225 amps, I don't think you're talking about actual motor current. More likely something to do with battery Ah. 

Your motor current for torque as in accelerations or hill climbing is determined by the current limit of the motor controller if your battery is stiff enough to supply it without sagging to the point of shutting down the controller. What you need to get to the root of the matter are some instruments. Namely an ammeter in the current loop, voltmeter for the battery, ammeter for the battery and if you can, a tach for the motor.

You using the forklift controller? It may have a current limit adjustment. Getting rid of bottlenecks (high resistance parts of the circuit) is always good 

Regards,

major


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks Major

That helps alot. I dont yet have an ammeter and shunt. I think ill be ordering one of those 75ma ones from china on ebay soon.(Canada post is onstrike) I do have a tach i got from china off ebay, only $10. the same one from kelly controlls is $100. And of course i have a volt meter. I did a load test on the batteries today, borrowed the tester. Most of the batteries were just over 1000a i had 1 or 2 in the low 100's. 

is the 1000a to 1200a range acceptable?

Im currently using the curtis ezgo 1206 golf cart controller 36v 300a. Im thinking this could also be a big bottleneck. I also have the ev100 controller from the forklift that i would like to use as I believe it could handle the amps better, its hard to figure out how to hook up.

So Im back to the drawing board, I just stripped all the components out of the car, ready to start over.


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