# Davo's AE86 Sprinter Planning



## OMT (May 10, 2010)

i would consider a large 11" forklift motor. this large diameter, along with a high amp controller(800+) it will put out tons of torque to spin the wheels and they cost peanuts! i picked up a really nice one for 90$, it has the same number o commutator bars as a kostov, and has big brushes. an almost identical motor "made" for an ev would cost you thousands. im just saying this because you could take that 2000$ you save on the motor, and putit toward a bigger battery/controller for higher performance. but i would only suggest this if your good with your hands, as youll have to do some slight mechanical modiications to help the motor perform better. read the thread "choosing a forklift motor good for an ev".

next. i would go would go with "headway" batteries. they are the most cost efective. or if you want real power look up a123 but those are expensive.

controller bassically 1000+ amps should be plenty, there are alot of new companies offering these.

i would go direct drive, and mount a blower to cool the motor at low speeds.

just my simple 2 cents.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Cro-Driver is the resident "Drifter" on this site. Look up his threads. He went top $$$, but, gets results. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## Driftin~Davo (Jan 18, 2011)

OMT said:


> i would consider a large 11" forklift motor. this large diameter, along with a high amp controller(800+) it will put out tons of torque to spin the wheels and they cost peanuts! i picked up a really nice one for 90$, it has the same number o commutator bars as a kostov, and has big brushes. an almost identical motor "made" for an ev would cost you thousands. im just saying this because you could take that 2000$ you save on the motor, and putit toward a bigger battery/controller for higher performance. but i would only suggest this if your good with your hands, as youll have to do some slight mechanical modiications to help the motor perform better. read the thread "choosing a forklift motor good for an ev".
> 
> next. i would go would go with "headway" batteries. they are the most cost efective. or if you want real power look up a123 but those are expensive.
> 
> ...


Thanks heaps for that info, thats the kinda guidance i'm after.




Harold in CR said:


> Cro-Driver is the resident "Drifter" on this site. Look up his threads. He went top $$$, but, gets results. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


Perfict, was hoping to find someone with a similar build in mind.


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## Driftin~Davo (Jan 18, 2011)

wow Cro Driver is amazing, beautiful style and planning has gone into his build. The most impressive i've seen to date.

Can anyone advise me were i can learn about performance DC motors? I want to learn about different brands, designs, HP output and cost.

If i budget $10 000 for all electrical components is that reasonable for a half decent performance build? I may start this build sooner rather then later and just wanna make sure i do enough research before i start buy parts i may regret.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Driftin~Davo said:


> If i budget $10 000 for all electrical components is that reasonable for a half decent performance build?


NO!

If you need a really fun to drive car with around 150-200 peak KW (200-268 hp) you probably need to invest more than 10000$ only for the battery.

Exemple: Headway 38120P 8Ah are rated at 1500w/Kg and weight 330g. 
So, to have 150 Kw with 85% efficiency motor, you need 350 cells and at 20$ each that give 7000$

But for this price you only able to have 150 Kw for few minute (less than 3 minutes) and it why you need more cells. Probably around 15000$ or more for battery.


After that, you need to add:

-2000-3000$ for motor.
-3000-4000$ for controller
-500-1000$ for battery box
-1000-3000$ for charger
-1000-2000$ for BMS
-300-400$ for contator
-100$ for fuse
-100$ for wire and lugs

In comparaison, I have a 11000$ budget for my 100 Kw peak Smart fortwo (800 Kg).
That exclude the price of the car and I go the cheaper I can (old forklift motor, cheap 1000A controller,...)


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## OMT (May 10, 2010)

if you gave me 10k i think i could do something pretty good.

cost examples:
forklift motor -50-200$
controller 1500-2500$( or build one/get a friend with electronics knowledge) 
battery boxes, depend on material, and were you get it from, ill let you do the math or that one.
1-3000 on charger
BMS... im not a fan, but probobly 1-2k
contactor- free with the forklit motor( when i got my motor, i got a few huge contactors that could easily take 1500A for several minutes)

these main costs add up to only5-7k,( without bms), which leaves you only 5-3k on batts. if you change that budget to 5k more( easy to type i know) you could buy a 10k pack to start off, and then possibly add more batteries later.

with your budget, i would definately go for Hawker Genesis batteries. their high power lead acid batteries, their a little heavier, but will give you lots of juice for less $$.

white zombie used to use them, and many high power ev's use them.


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## Driftin~Davo (Jan 18, 2011)

I understand how important batteries and BMS is but technology and price may change by the time I'm ready to purchase them. I'm just gonna focus on selecting the right motor, adaptor plate, mounts etc all ready and i'm going to fabricate up a alloy drop tank style batter box large enough to cater for expansion. That way i dont have batteries sitting around for ages doing nothing. My 10k figure was just a suggestion my budget will probably increase as i learn about more cool stuff on the market.

As a rough rule of thumb how much power is lost through a gearbox and diff? eg 200kw motor will have 150kw at the wheels maybe? The only reason i'm keeping a gear box is so i can use a clutch which is essential for drift. 200kw at the wheels would be a dream not sure how realistic it is until i find out more about building a EV.

Thanks everyone who's giving me feedback and tips its helping me heaps.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Driftin~Davo said:


> As a rough rule of thumb how much power is lost through a gearbox and diff?


The gear on gearbox and diff. have a great efficiency (+ 97%) but you lose power because the motor move more part (more weight).






> The only reason i'm keeping a gear box is so i can use a clutch which is essential for drift.


Why?! With electric motor you can always have the max torque instantly. And when you drop the trottle the motor turn freely. Crodriver use direct drive since a year...


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## Driftin~Davo (Jan 18, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Why?! With electric motor you can always have the max torque instantly. And when you drop the trottle the motor turn freely. Crodriver use direct drive since a year...


I understand DC motors have great torque down low, But for greater control while drifting i like to maintain the rev's at high speed when hand breaking and in order to hand break the driveline needs to be disengaged by the clutch.

Also how is the amount of current drawn effect in regards to rpm? eg: higher rpm = more current? And on the same note as more load is applied to the motor does it also draw more current?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Driftin~Davo said:


> Also how is the amount of current drawn effect in regards to rpm? eg: higher rpm = more current?


For DC motor, higher RPM = more volts to the motor. More volts to the motor = more current draw from battery.




> And on the same note as more load is applied to the motor does it also draw more current


Yes. And for the same voltage, when more load is applied to the motor, the RPM go down. The motor need more volts to stay at the same RPM (to produce more HP (more torque / same RPM)).
The controller limit the current to the motor and it's why a 1000A-1400A controller will be great for your project.

Some 11" motor can produce around 350 to 400 lbs-ft of torque at 1400A.... so probably enough for slip the tire!


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## Driftin~Davo (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for that info. So are people who have direct drive motor installs (no gearbox) revving high on faster motor ways and drawing more current? Or due to the lower load are they drawing the same amount of current with someone that has a gearbox and is revving at a lower RPM?


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## touge_g35 (Jan 27, 2012)

Hey Davo, 

I'm also looking to do the EVAE86 route, for the same purpose of drifting but also time attacks as well as daily driving. I might actually go through with this once I get all of the info on what I'll be needing.

Mine is a GTS hatch and it's fully stripped already, I was going to put a 4AGZE into it but I decided against it by keeping the 4AG.


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## Driftin~Davo (Jan 18, 2011)

touge_g35 said:


> Hey Davo,
> 
> I'm also looking to do the EVAE86 route, for the same purpose of drifting but also time attacks as well as daily driving. I might actually go through with this once I get all of the info on what I'll be needing.
> 
> Mine is a GTS hatch and it's fully stripped already, I was going to put a 4AGZE into it but I decided against it by keeping the 4AG.


Glad to see someone with similar electric drift concepts. I Have decided to change chassis to a S13 180SX as i have a couple of these and my sprinter was not in the best condition.

I'm in Australia and want to buy a Warp 11 Is there any local suppliers? where is the best place to get a motor from?

Also I'm trying to find a decent BMS which has a Ethernet output so i can monitor data the same as with the solution1 RJ45 output. Any one have suggestions? The reason I like this is so i can easily monitor data from a smart phone and change settings easily.

Sorry but i've had some dramas with a few cars, i'm back on track now ready to start buying parts i'm serious about my build and wanna get it under way.


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## touge_g35 (Jan 27, 2012)

Too bad you're in Australia, I have a perfect GTS hatch shell just sitting around and I'm about to pick up a sunroof GTS hatch.

I also have an S13 hatch as well that I was thinking about converting, but I've yet to experience turbo power so I'm gonna go through with that swap for sure.


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## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

Driftin~Davo said:


> Glad to see someone with similar electric drift concepts. I Have decided to change chassis to a S13 180SX as i have a couple of these and my sprinter was not in the best condition.
> 
> I'm in Australia and want to buy a Warp 11 Is there any local suppliers? where is the best place to get a motor from?
> 
> Sorry but i've had some dramas with a few cars, i'm back on track now ready to start buying parts i'm serious about my build and wanna get it under way.


Hey Davo,

I'm in Australia as well.
http://evworks.com.au/index.php?category=1 are a local supplier of EV parts. They are in Western Australia.

You will also want to talk to http://www.catavolt.com.au/
They won the 2011 Australian TTXGP championship.
Also, they rewound the motor for the World's Fastest Ride On.

Also, have a chat to http://gasless.com.au

In Australia, there is also an EV association, Australia Electric Vehicle Association.

Just a couple of other things:
With series wound motor, torque is roughly proportional to the current squared. I think you were going to get a series wound motor anyway so you get plenty of torque at start up. 
With shunt wound and permanent magnet motors, torque is roughly proportional to the current.

With drifting, keep in mind cooling. 

Also, when you do the clutch kick, just watch you don't blow the motor. I think with series wound motors, with no load, the motors tend to speed up to dangerous levels so you will want to have some sort of rev limiter.

Consider putting in a very heavy duty clutch as well as tail shaft hoops in case the tail shaft snaps. You don't want bits of tail shaft going into the cockpit.

Keep us posted. If you are going to Eastern Creek or Wakefield Park, let me know. I live near Wakefield Park.

Another thing, you will also want to put fully sick graphics. Funky Car Skins are the best ones to see for car graphics.

Regards
CrazyAl


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