# Long trip and home "guest" charging



## Emyr (Oct 27, 2016)

Wiebe Wakker's plugmeinproject.com Netherlands to Australia https://youtu.be/Ex585HR0wBs

He made it more difficult by doing it without money, but he got there.


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

Emyr said:


> Wiebe Wakker's plugmeinproject.com Netherlands to Australia https://youtu.be/Ex585HR0wBs
> 
> He made it more difficult by doing it without money, but he got there.


that was really nice to watch.. well my project will be very similar, but we will have a monthly budget plus an additional amount of money a part.. which is not much but still good for eating and the essentials, running all the way with electricity will indeed reduce our expenses almost to zero.

and we can also pay people by local kwh costs... i'm just worried about long leg journeys and very low density populated area.

thing is that if in rural areas people still can get electricity.. and they will accept a payment for the electricity that they can give me.. it will be work fine!.....


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Worst case carry a gas house generator and a gascan. Havent seen a place that don't have access to fuel.


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## Bmmoffat (Nov 14, 2018)

Yea I would reccomend carrying a little generator and gas can, worse case scenario you can lug it in and charge it. 

It’s hard to plan out range, eapically going over mountains or through windy areas, so if you think you will hit a certain city and then come up short, there might not be houses that you can charge at. 

My advice is see if you can get an elks club or moose club membership. That way you could stay in the parking lot for the night and probably charge as well.

Checkpoint has a map of all their chargers world wide so you can also see which ones are on the way. 

I think you could probably get someone to let u charge but how many houses is it going to take? 

If you don’t do the generator I would at least get some sort of cheap roadside assistance so they could tow you to a charging place.


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

Bmmoffat said:


> Yea I would reccomend carrying a little generator and gas can, worse case scenario you can lug it in and charge it.
> 
> It’s hard to plan out range, eapically going over mountains or through windy areas, so if you think you will hit a certain city and then come up short, there might not be houses that you can charge at.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much..... i was looking at milage with towing..... omg.......it's sucks


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Depends on what you are towing. Small Aero trailer sitting in your wake, maybe 5% penalty, depending on weight. Big 4axle toy hauler, yup that will suck, big-time


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

piotrsko said:


> Depends on what you are towing. Small Aero trailer sitting in your wake, maybe 5% penalty, depending on weight. Big 4axle toy hauler, yup that will suck, big-time


It already difficult to get an honest guest with mile range on convertono ev.. There is very little info on towing range.. But if I will tow.a 1 axel and keep the weight down and having a good aerodinamic it may stratch a fair leg.... 

It will be far away from now.. But I will definitely keep you posted..


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

About the "guest charging" idea...

Most people are helpful, but counting on that seems very risky. It isn't just the cost of electrical energy (which you're willing to pay for); when a stranger approaches a person in their home, the homeowner is right to suspicious and concerned about their safety and their property. Rural crime is a huge problem, and at this point I think it would be safer and less threatening to approach an apartment dweller in a major city than to pull into some rural driveway unannounced and ask to plug in to an outlet and stay for hours.

Also, most people have no idea what they pay for electricity, and so would have no idea what fair compensation might be. With a 3 kW charger the power is only worth $0.30 per hour here, so unless you're charging for a whole day money isn't really an issue.

Personally, I would be willing to help someone in this situation, but only if I had the time to wait in the driveway with them as the car charged. Leave some stranger unattended on my property - not a chance.


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## Bmmoffat (Nov 14, 2018)

I agree with Brian, I would see if you could set up charging ahead of time if you are going that route, not waiting till you get somewhere and then need to charge. 

And yea in the end it will probably be more cost effective to charge at a charging place because people will think you are ripping them off when you give them 5 dollars for charging your car.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

When people do long distance bicycle rides, a good piece of advice they've given is to stop by churches, even if you're not the same religion. Call ahead, and, if you've stayed previously at a church of the same denomination, they'll probably be happy to know things went well. Aside from Sundays, they're generally willing to let you pitch a tent under a tree or back lawn, let you use their bathrooms, most of them will have a shower and are often staffed by an admin during the week. They'd probably let you plug in too. Offer them double or triple what your power use will cost them and leave it as a donation.

Another bit of advice is to stop by fire stations and police stations, and ask. Police stations in small towns will be glad you sort of checked in with them and will give you advice on where is acceptable or not. Fire stations will probably let you park out back and use their power.

Many hotels will let you, but some will be picky about you being a guest.

Service stations might let you, it's kind of their business model. Pull over to poop, spend money on gas and junk food.

Grocery stores the same, they'll have empty parking lots.

Make sure you conservatively set your charger so as to not blow breakers. Even though it's no big deal, it'll immediately tip you to the unwelcome hassle side of the line.

The bigger the city and the higher the rent, the more picky places will be because land has value. In small towns they'll just be happy someone might spend some money in town before they leave.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Some of those locations are good places to stop, generally because they want to sell you something unrelated to parking there, whether it is a service, a retail product, or their religion. Overnight stopping in Walmart parking lots is a very popular thing in the RV world, and it can work well. Some will even give you water (I've done that at highway gas stations). Plugging into power - especially for hours at high power - is another thing entirely.


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

I will really appreciate your tips.
This are very useful on get the idea doable. 

Thanks!! I will think about these options


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

> generally because they want to sell you something unrelated to parking there, whether it is a service, a retail product, or their religion.


Naturally, but some are just happy to be top of mind and to help out. Some churches have put Christ back in Christians and aren't the least bit preachy.

The utility cost of a 15 minute shower is the same as a 30kwh charge, and churches will welcome you in to do that.

Ditto for malls that have charging stations. They presume you'll stop by and shop and it's good for business. The few bucks it costs them while you wait is worthwhile.



> Overnight stopping in Walmart parking lots is a very popular thing in the RV world


Used to be. Walmart has an official policy of not allowing it now (probably for liability). It's selectively enforced, depends on the manager at the location. But you're right, they've never allowed utility connections.

Cross-country E-bikers have noted that all A&W's have a plug out back, and most don't care if you plug in, (or won't stop you if you say "Hey I plugged in out back, is that okay?"), but, that's a completely different than a vehicle with a battery 20-50x the size.


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

Sorry guys one question... But let's say u have a tent.. Or a small trailer...
What happen if I will Stop at a camping site/village and charge to the plug of the place you pay.

I guess it will have a low amperage but maybe I can leave it there all day while I go sightseeing around don't know..
What you think?? They should be quite everywhere specially in rural and naturalistic place where often there is less infrastructure..

What do you think?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Walmart has an official policy of not allowing it now (probably for liability). It's selectively enforced, depends on the manager at the location.


I don't know when that would have occurred. In a cross-Canada trip this summer I found the same Walmart policy as usual: allowed unless prohibited by local regulations, within specified areas of the lot.

From the Walmart.com FAQ:


> *Can I park my RV at a Walmart store?*
> While we do not offer electrical service or accommodations typically necessary for RV customers, Walmart values RV travelers and considers them among our best customers. Consequently, we do permit RV parking on our store parking lots as we are able. Permission to park is extended by individual store managers, based on availability of parking space and local laws. Please contact management in each store to ensure accommodations before parking your RV.


Still, not useful for charging...


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

mpobor said:


> Sorry guys one question... But let's say u have a tent.. Or a small trailer...
> What happen if I will Stop at a camping site/village and charge to the plug of the place you pay.
> 
> I guess it will have a low amperage but maybe I can leave it there all day while I go sightseeing around don't know..
> ...


This depends on where you are. In North America, many (but certainly not all) campgrounds - and all places called "RV Parks" - have at least some serviced sites with power. Power connections are typically one of:
15 A @ 120 V
20 A @ 120 V
30 A @ 120 V (NEMA TT-30 connector)
50 A @ 240 V (NEMA 14-50 connector)

For instance, the 15-amp connection could provide a maximum of 1.8 kW peak, but no more than 1.5 kW continuous.

Campgrounds often have power problems, including low voltage (due to overloading when busy), high voltage (due to systems configured to try to compensate for busy times), inadequate current capacity, and missing grounds or reversed polarity (due to inadequate construction and poor maintenance by unqualified operators). Many recreational vehicle owners use surge protection or power quality monitoring equipment.


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

brian_ said:


> MattsAwesomeStuff said:
> 
> 
> > Walmart has an official policy of not allowing it now (probably for liability). It's selectively enforced, depends on the manager at the location.
> ...




But if I'm talking about camping site where you have those cluster where you park and connect the cable to use light and stuff Inside the camper what happen if I use that energy to charge the car? I will pay extra if needed... It will be awesome.. I will travel cheap so I will definitively use camping often.. Charging during the stay will give me a full tank for the next leg of the trip!!!


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

brian_ said:


> mpobor said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry guys one question... But let's say u have a tent.. Or a small trailer...
> ...


Sorry i posted at the same time you posted.. I didn't know that.. And that's is definitely an issue.. Even if I'm case of emergency I can stay 1 or 2 full day and still get a full tank... In some area it could also be very good.. Lots to see in the nature.. So longer stay at a very slow charge... It can work in emergency situation.. Big city or village I guess I go straight to a charging station or the other option suggested.. Churches, fireguards


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

brian_ said:


> I don't know when that would have occurred. In a cross-Canada trip this summer I found the same Walmart policy as usual: allowed unless prohibited by local regulations, within specified areas of the lot.


I'm not an RVer, but I spent some time following the VanDwellers community and IIRC, people were saying 1-2 years ago they passed it as policy. Everyone was posting videos about it. The attitude seemed to be that it wasn't being enforced at all locations and people were grateful that not all stores enforced it.

Maybe it wasn't true but spread like a game of telephone. Here's one article that same something similar:

https://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/s...es-ban-overnight-parking-not-here/1045866001/

"Walmart leaves parking decisions to store managers, says spokeswoman Tara Aston. If the property isn’t owned by Walmart, then overnight parking is the landlord's call, she said."

https://www.walmartlocator.com/no-park-walmarts/ <-- Says ~25% of Walmarts have banned it.

So, that's different than what everyone else was saying last couple years. Maybe they revised it after complaints?

https://youtu.be/9_7BK83HmpA?list=PLEAH-n1Y7usMSHaY-PEk8_1oyIt4voTEy&t=139 <-- Walmart future plans for "town centers" now and seems new policies don't include RV parking.

Looks like you're still okay, but up to the individual store.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

About Walmart...


MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> ...
> Looks like you're still okay, but up to the individual store.


Yes. The stores which will be problems are where local bylaws prohibit overnight parking, where there have been complaints by neighbors, where is the lot is shared (but even most of those allow RVs), and where people trying to live full-time in somebody else's parking lot have abused Walmart's hospitality and ruined it for everyone.


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## mpobor (Jul 9, 2018)

hi all!!!

i found this article on towing:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-range-impact-towing/

i think you have all read this article already,

i was looking and mi\wh and with that setup, heavy model x plus superheavy boat it average 575 but it will spike easily at 800..

what if the weight was concentrated on just one vehicle? should it give a better milage?
aerodynamics vs weight.. whitch will affect most?


low speed 50\mph steady, huge van 6600lbs total weight..... a bit more areodynamic than towing a boat, and les tyres on the road

what do you think?

the same milage? better? worst?

thanks!!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

mpobor said:


> i found this article on towing:
> https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-range-impact-towing/
> 
> i think you have all read this article already,
> ...


"Superheavy"? That boat is lighter than the average travel trailer. It also has relatively low aero drag, due to the shape, although the projecting wheels of the trailer are bad for drag.



mpobor said:


> what if the weight was concentrated on just one vehicle? should it give a better milage?
> aerodynamics vs weight.. whitch will affect most?
> 
> 
> ...


The significance to one vehicle or two is aerodynamic drag... which should be better with one well-shaped vehicle. At highway speed (even 50 mph), aerodynamic drag (which is determined by shape and frontal area) is much more important than rolling resistance (which is determined by weight and tires). With hills the mass matters, but coasting downhill somewhat compensates for the extra consumption going uphill.

The number of tires on the road is less important than the total weight they are carrying and the type of tires, but if the axles are not well-aligned then they scrub and will add a lot of drag... so yes, I expect that just four large tires will generally work out better than eight smaller ones.

Again, 6600 pounds is a van, but small compared to most motorhomes.


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## Emyr (Oct 27, 2016)

Towing a boat might actually improve the aerodynamics of the car, although the whole "train" will have worse drag than the car alone; if the boat is close enough, the bow will occupy some of the space where most cars have an area of low-pressure air.

I've only ever seen trailers which carry the boat in the normal forward orientation, but (assuming your boat doesn't dwarf the tow car), towing the boat backwards (with the stern facing the rear of the car) could minimise the low-pressure pocket between the car and boat while avoiding a low-pressure area behind the boat (airflow around the car and boat would merge together at the rearward-facing bow. A stretchy but heavy fabric "fairing" between the car and stern would really smooth things out...

edit: added sketch


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## x.l.r.8 (Oct 20, 2018)

Having recently driven home from Seattle to Toronto I can say campgrounds are the second most desirable places to stop, some will charge $20 to charge during the day, some will charge you an overnight stay. All I stayed at had 40A service and it was most reliable. My first choice of charging was anywhere that had a 70A charger but to have a nice rest with amenities and a welcoming group of people who enjoy a diverse lifestyle the campgrounds were a nice place to stop and usually plentiful. They do have a minimum arrival time though as sometimes I had to find alternatives if I was running behind schedule.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

x.l.r.8 said:


> Having recently driven home from Seattle to Toronto I can say campgrounds are the second most desirable places to stop, some will charge $20 to charge during the day, some will charge you an overnight stay. All I stayed at had 40A service and it was most reliable. My first choice of charging was anywhere that had a 70A charger but to have a nice rest with amenities and a welcoming group of people who enjoy a diverse lifestyle the campgrounds were a nice place to stop and usually plentiful.


I've never heard of 40 amp or 70 amp RV service; did you mean 30 amp (at 120 volts; NEMA TT-30 connector), or 50 amp (at 240 volts; NEMA 14-50 connector)? Those are the standards, and they (plus of course 15 or 20 amps at 120 volts) the only service levels for which connectors are available on RVs or in RV supply stores. Mobile home parks may provide 70 amps at 240 volts, but not for RVs.

*30-amp (NEMA TT-30)*











*50-amp (NEMA 14-50)*


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Emyr said:


> I've only ever seen trailers which carry the boat in the normal forward orientation, but (assuming your boat doesn't dwarf the tow car), towing the boat backwards (with the stern facing the rear of the car) could minimise the low-pressure pocket between the car and boat while avoiding a low-pressure area behind the boat (airflow around the car and boat would merge together at the rearward-facing bow. A stretchy but heavy fabric "fairing" between the car and stern would really smooth things out...


Although I assume that the boat towing scenario was just given as an example of energy consumption while towing with an EV (it's not what mpobor wants to do), it is an interesting design challenge. Boats are carried bow-first because that's the practical configuration for launching and retrieving, but I think it's better aerodynamically as well, because the bow can be close to the tow vehicle. If you turn it around (stern-first), the boat must be much further back to allow the rig to turn tightly without the corners of the square stern hitting the tow vehicle.


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## x.l.r.8 (Oct 20, 2018)

Not sure I said 70A RV service, I used plugshare and a lot of people who allowed me to charge to get home had a 70A service. If I saw a 14-50 I would assume it’s backed by a 50A fuse or CB so would not pull more than 40A continuously from it. The joy of asking people before hand you know what kind of service you will find. As I mentioned, my first choice was 70A service usually hotel destination chargers, or from peoples houses. Also there were a few dedicated roadster HPWC’s along the way. For RV grounds I used 40A and ad previously mentioned it was a pleasant experience. If your going to start pulling 50A from a 14-50 then IMHO your asking for trouble. I would hate for someone to read this and think it was okay to start pulling 50A from a 14-50 service.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

x.l.r.8 said:


> If I saw a 14-50 I would assume it’s backed by a 50A fuse or CB so would not pull more than 40A continuously from it.
> ...
> For RV grounds I used 40A and ad previously mentioned it was a pleasant experience. If your going to start pulling 50A from a 14-50 then IMHO your asking for trouble. I would hate for someone to read this and think it was okay to start pulling 50A from a 14-50 service.


That makes sense... you are saying that campgrounds or RV parks "had 40A service" when you mean that they had 50 amp / 240 V service and you are (appropriately) using up to 40 amps. If someone is looking at RV park / campground descriptions, they're not going to find "40 amp"... it will say "50 amp".

You certainly _can_ use 50 amps from a 14-50 connection... but only briefly, not for EV charging. For any sustained load, 80% of the circuit capacity (such as 40 amps on a 50-amp circuit) is the appropriate limit.


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