# 66 Bug



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

The Bug is now up and running. Well, Currently charging the battery but it is ready to go. I did a quickie little drive that was successful but with an empty pack and voltage limiting it was quite sluggish. It is only 72 volts so I don't expect too much for too long. A 7.2 kWh pack is not expected to do much. I am pleased to report that the issue of piss poor voltage to the controller was a ground not connected that I thought was connected. Once fixed it worked perfectly as it should. Now to charge and drive. I won't be driving until tomorrow afternoon. 

Pete 

Video is in the making but won't be finished until a good couple runs. Then we bump to 144 volts.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Sounds good  Gotta love glitchy grounds.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Sounds good  Gotta love glitchy grounds.


Well it was not the normal glitchy ground. It was more like I did not connect it up properly. No big deal but a small item that is usually the issue. Usually something totally stupid. But it is done fixed. I am no stranger to VW glitchy grounds. I know them well. I just had someone at work ask about converting to 12 volts on an old original 6 volt and I asked him why. His response is because the 6 volt systems are usually too weak. I said not a chance. I said get your ground connections in order and keep the original 6 volt system. Nothing wrong with them. They are reliable and work just fine if you have good solid connections without corrosion. REALLY. 

Pete


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Here is a few more photos to add to the post. I have connected every thing up and even taken a little drive. But I am currently charging the pack for the drives tomorrow after work.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I successfully implemented a 4 cell 100AH Hi-Power battery pack for my Aux battery during low voltage testing. No more controller shutting down due to crappy lead acid batteries. Being the car is only set at 72 volts I can't expect much. The car has fat tires and not good LLR tires and a bone stock VW Transaxle and that is not best suited in stock form for a high torque electric motor. In first you can forget driving unless you really slip the clutch. You can't start in 1st or 2nd with motor engaged because the torque is so high the car just jack rabbits real hard. Like it is going to just fall apart. If I feather the clutch it works fine but I use 1st and 2nd real fast. It starts in 3rd real easy and without any rabbiting. So even at 72 volts the torque of the Kostov and the gearing of the stock tranny anything but 3rd is really out of the question. I plan on bumping to 192 volts here in the next week or so. 

Now its time to connect up the little things. Like AH counter and fuel gauge and such. Time to also remove the fuel tank from the bug. Hauling around unneeded weight. Never removed it when I took the engine out. Time to empty it and put it into the SUV.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Lookin good. Is that a K9 or 11?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Lookin good. Is that a K9 or 11?


It's the Old 11" with inter-poles. Amazing how much torque even at 72 volts. Too much for the poor stock tranny. For sure having better gearing would help. I hope to have my new tranny mounted in my Roadster soon. Gotta take the body off to repair the pan. That is why I am using the 66 Bug for now. I want skinny tires for the Bugs. 

The old model 11" is not the high voltage but I am going to pump in 156 volts with a 192 volt pack. If it does not like that I will advance it some and try again. It is currently advances some already. Interpoles will help a bunch for the high voltage. The Kostov does not like high amperage. I will limit it to 800.

I also have a stage II pressure plate in the Bug. That is one stiff pressure plate.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

> From onegreenev pete
> *Topeka Truck *
> 
> *Quote:*
> ...


*Pete I dont think you have a clue of what you are talking about*
*I was there and went for a ride in Kevins truck, we went for a ride*
*and jumped on the freeway and where up to 70mph by the time we*
*hit the freeway. Just because you built a slug (low voltage DC)*
*I dont believe you talked with Kevin and he said it was a slug..*


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Well thanks a bunch for posting in public a private message. Yes the vehicle in the state in which you may have driven it was not a 72 volt 350 amp system. NOT A Fing chance and YES I did have dialog with him about his vehicles. I am fully aware of what has been done and what has been changed. 

NO FRIGGING WAY WOULD A 72 VOLT SYSTEM AT 350 AMPS BE ON PAR WITH A V8 ENGINE. 

I have built two EV's and testing our third and own a Leaf. YOU?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

120 Volt AC with 400 AH Sized pack but the amperage used is far more than 350 amps. He has a safe zone of about 350 AH from his HUGE pack of batteries. 

I know his vehicle. It is not really 72 volts now is it? 

A 72 volts system is only 83 volts charged and settles to a bout 80 volts fully charged His Truck is higher voltage. It is a FAT Baldor AC motor. That will be much better than 72 volts. 

I know what the performance is of a 72 volt system. YOU DON'T and my builds were not CRAP either. You really need to get your FACTS on track.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

By the way. If anyone sends you a PM it is meant to be private and not public. Don't do that again.


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## SandRailEV (May 11, 2012)

Ha!!! OK ha again!~!!!!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

The motor Baldor built for us is a 3 phase induction motor. It is rated 72 volts AC at 60 cycles, 50 hp, 150 ft lbs torque and 362 amps continuous rating.

The motor is rated at 72 volts. It is not a 72 volt system


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> I dont believe you talked with Kevin and he said it was a slug..


I said a 72 volt system will be a SLUG. It is a known FACT. START Diggin.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> The battery configuration is 2P32S for a nominal voltage of 102 volts DC at 400 amp hours.


A far cry from a 72 volt system. Your looking at 110 volts charged. I can assure you that there is a HUGE difference in performance from a 72 volt system to just 96 volts. More when you jump to 102 nominal. With 110 volts and an AC system and a good healthy system the vehicle does perform well. At lower speeds it was not so good except around town. 

Best top speed of my first conversion at 72 volts nominal and 550 amp controller and a GE 9" motor I was able to attain 65 mph absolute max. It was a slug. My Current 66 Beetle at 72 volts has gobbs of torque because of the 11" Kostov motor with near neutral timing. It will smoke the tires but top speed is limited. Voltage will limit any vehicles speed. AC or DC. 

72 Volts is for Golf Carts. 

102 or 120 volts with the Curtis controllers and a decent AC motor you can get OK performance with a large vehicle and excellent performance with a small light weight vehicle. I have driven an AC50 Curtis setup but in a small Porsche Speedster Replica and Porsche 550 Spyder Replica. Both had excellent performance on par with the original gas power plants. With a much heavier vehicle the performance will be OK but will not be like what I drove.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> We have had the truck on the highway at 70 mph although the optimal speed is 55mph or lower. When the truck is running at around 45 mph, it uses only 5 amp hours per mile. The truck weighs 5945 lbs.



Big difference in having it at 70 and really jumping to 70 when they clearly say best performance is 55 and lower. That is right from the horses mouth.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I have a nice little VW power plant here that you might consider V8 material if you think that truck is V8 comparable.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> Well thanks a bunch for posting in public a private message. Yes the vehicle in the state in which you may have driven it was not a 72 volt 350 amp system. NOT A Fing chance and YES I did have dialog with him about his vehicles. I am fully aware of what has been done and what has been changed.
> 
> NO FRIGGING WAY WOULD A 72 VOLT SYSTEM AT 350 AMPS BE ON PAR WITH A V8 ENGINE.
> 
> I have built two EV's and testing our third and own a Leaf. YOU?


Pete, I am really sorry if i hurt your feelings.
A three phase 220/440 volt motor puts out the same torque
220 or 440 (whitch they are wound for) or even 70 volt if it 
is wound correctly.
The curtis controller 1238-7601 puts out 70volts rms. 
Maybe you should spend more time researching instead of testing.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Well first off you never hurt my feelings. You just pissed me off bringing a private message onto the public forum. No need for private messages if you do that, RIGHT? 



> Maybe you should spend more time researching instead of testing.


Maybe you should just go cut and paste what is on the Curtis Data Sheets. 

Model
1238R-7501

Battery Voltage V
72–96
2 Min RMS Current Rating Arms (A)
550
2 Min RMS Power Rating (kVA)
62.3


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

His system according to HIM is not 72 volts. Maybe you should read more too. And maybe you should listen closer too when some one explains something.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

On another related note. They don't go blathering on about RMS crap either with their controller. That is just what is in the spec sheet from Curtis. The controller will actually handle just under 120 volts. He is using a 96 volt controller at a nominal 102 volts. In other words he is over clocking his controller. Like I said. 102 nominal is way different than 72 volts nominal. I know what 72 volts will do as well as 96 and 120 volts. My recommendation is a minimum of 120 volts for any vehicle. Small or large that will be driven on the street or freeway. 96 for a light weight vehicle in a pinch and NEVER 72 volts. EVER EVER EVER. An around town car that will never see the freeway you could get away with 72 volts but the performance JUST sucks. 

MY GUESS IS YOU HAVE NEVER BUILD AN EV YET. ON PAPER IS ONE THING, ON THE STREET IS ALL TOGETHER ANOTHER. Good luck with your 72 volt AC drive tire ripping screamer with gobs of V8 power oozing everywhere.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Pete
My mistake, HPEVS, Curtis and myself should of been talking with you before wasting all that time and money on a ac system. Cause apparently you seem to no more than anyone else.

I will be switching over to a dc system, ya right.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

> MY GUESS IS YOU HAVE NEVER BUILD AN EV YET


. 

Does a bike count?

its on my web site


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

That looks like a very oversized system for a VW Bug.  Nothing wrong with that.

I'll agree that most EV cars and trucks should be 120V+. An EV1 or Geo Metro might be able to handle 96V. I would like to see some real performance numbers to see how a car performs with different battery bank sizes and weights though.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> Pete
> My mistake, HPEVS, Curtis and myself should of been talking with you before wasting all that time and money on a ac system. Cause apparently you seem to no more than anyone else.
> 
> I will be switching over to a dc system, ya right.


Where did I say to go DC? AC is not superior, just different. Don't forget I drive an AC daily. I like both AC and DC.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> That looks like a very oversized system for a VW Bug.  Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> I'll agree that most EV cars and trucks should be 120V+. An EV1 or Geo Metro might be able to handle 96V. I would like to see some real performance numbers to see how a car performs with different battery bank sizes and weights though.


Actually it's not because we will be bumping the voltage to 185 and intend to go fast. It's only at 72 volts because we are doing some system testing for now.


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