# slick ways to add tach w/o tailshaft?



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I did a little piece of reflectorized tape and an optical pick up (Harbor Freight handheld device, but something more permanent should be doable).



dtbaker said:


> I have a tail-shaft-less ADC8" in my Swift.... and built without an rpm pickup because it doesn't have a tach anyway. I am now considering adding a rpm pickup because I am considering upgrading the controller to either Zilla or Soliton that would have over-rev limiter built in if I could feed it a signal, and then I could run it to an aftermarket tach for display as well and do away with my stickers on the speedo showing redline speeds....
> 
> so..... thought I'd start a thread to see if anyone has specific pickup and mounting location ideas that would work on a motor that does NOT have a tailshaft.
> 
> ...


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DavidDymaxion said:


> I did a little piece of reflectorized tape and an optical pick up (Harbor Freight handheld device, but something more permanent should be doable).


Have you fed the signal to either a Zilla/Soliton, or to a 'standard' dash mount tachometer? Does it matter whether its 2,4,6,8 pulses per rev?

I am looking for what might be the most 'normal' signal I could use for both the controller and a tach display.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> Have you fed the signal to either a Zilla/Soliton, or to a 'standard' dash mount tachometer? Does it matter whether its 2,4,6,8 pulses per rev?
> 
> I am looking for what might be the most 'normal' signal I could use for both the controller and a tach display.


I don't know about the zilla but with the soliton you tell it how many pulses per rev. They recommend 2 because with 4 (and higher RPM's) you are approaching some software limit. The Soliton will output a different pulse per rev than the input so you can match your car's tach. Seems to work pretty well.

I dont know what normal is. I am using 2 pulses per rev. I dont remember what the tach wanted. I just adjusted it until it was correct.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> I have a tail-shaft-less ADC8" in my Swift.... and built without an rpm pickup because it doesn't have a tach anyway. I am now considering adding a rpm pickup because I am considering upgrading the controller to either Zilla or Soliton that would have over-rev limiter built in if I could feed it a signal, and then I could run it to an aftermarket tach for display as well and do away with my stickers on the speedo showing redline speeds....
> 
> [snip]
> Do ya'll think this would be better/worse than trying to add some kind of stub tailshaft fastened in the tail-less end and go with a more normal sensor?


Does your ADC 8 have a snap on plastic cover on the brush end bell? If so, pop that off and take a look inside. On mine I found a threaded hole in the end of the motor shaft. I used the standard rev pickup that was used on the Zilla equipped Corbin Sparrows. I added a 7/8 inch diameter spacer the right length to put the ring magnet that comes with that kit inside the pickup housing, and a longer 1/4-20 bolt to go through both into the motor shaft. The housing is designed to center over the open hole in the end bell, you just have to drill and tap 2 small holes in the end bell. I guess it would work with the Soliton too.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

EVfun said:


> Does your ADC 8 have a snap on plastic cover on the brush end bell? If so, pop that off and take a look inside. On mine I found a threaded hole in the end of the motor shaft. I used the standard rev pickup that was used on the Zilla equipped Corbin Sparrows. I added a 7/8 inch diameter spacer the right length to put the ring magnet that comes with that kit inside the pickup housing, and a longer 1/4-20 bolt to go through both into the motor shaft. The housing is designed to center over the open hole in the end bell, you just have to drill and tap 2 small holes in the end bell. I guess it would work with the Soliton too.


I'll have to look..... but I do recall a plastic cap on the tail-less end. It would be slick indeed if I could just bolt a stub on there in a pre-drilled/tapped hole, I'd like to avoid pulling the motor if possible... 

Question then becomes whether it is 'better' to go with an optical pickup and a black/white puck, or a plastic/aluminum stub with 2 or perhaps 4 ferrous bolts and a Hall effect pickup. 

The hall effect ones look to be available for about $85 or so from our favorite EV retailers, and I can probably add a little bracket to my end motor mount without much trouble.... what I'm not sure about is whether they need a MAGNET flying by, or just a ferrous bolt head?

I took a quick look in ebay, and there are zillions of choices available for a lot less, I am wondering if anyone has experiented with any of these? If you do a search on 'dorman speed sensor', you get tons, like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DORMAN-970-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5af8a06450&vxp=mtr in the $20-$40 range, but you don't get much information about what they are designed to pickup on.... anyone know if they are looking at boltheads flying by, or magnets, or what?


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

The proximity sensor that is recommended in the Soliton manual is pretty user friendly and very affordable ($26); part No. AM1-AP-3A from Automation Direct http://www.automationdirect.com
It works with both ferrous and and non-ferrous metal objects.

I just put a couple of bolts in the radial fan of my Kostov motor and it worked great.

This sensor also has a green LED in the back that flashes when it triggers.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

azdeltawye said:


> The proximity sensor that is recommended in the Soliton manual is pretty user friendly and very affordable ($26); part No. AM1-AP-3A from Automation Direct http://www.automationdirect.com
> It works with both ferrous and and non-ferrous metal objects.
> I just put a couple of bolts in the radial fan of my Kostov motor and it worked great.
> This sensor also has a green LED in the back that flashes when it triggers.


ahhhhh, now THIS is the kind of great information I knew someone would have!

azd, do you have any pictures of your setup?


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> ....
> 
> azd, do you have any pictures of your setup?



This pic is with an ABS style sensor, not the prox sensor that I mentioned. The ABS style sensor was problematic in that it would not register low rpm. Upgrading to the prox-style sensor eliminated that problem.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

azdeltawye said:


> This pic is with an ABS style sensor, not the prox sensor that I mentioned. The ABS style sensor was problematic in that it would not register low rpm. Upgrading to the prox-style sensor eliminated that problem.


very creative way to grab that signal! After reading the specs a little, it looks like the inductive prox sensor is designed for a 4mm sensing distance, so I'm guessing that as long as there are two bolt heads flying by at less than 4mm, and everything else is further away, then you get your signal.... thanks for the picture, I was wondering if you were looking at the fan blades radially.... it cleared things up to see you are looking at the face.

I am hoping to avoid pulling the motor, so I'll see if I have a stub end to work with externally first.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> I'll have to look..... but I do recall a plastic cap on the tail-less end. It would be slick indeed if I could just bolt a stub on there in a pre-drilled/tapped hole, I'd like to avoid pulling the motor if possible...
> 
> Question then becomes whether it is 'better' to go with an optical pickup and a black/white puck, or a plastic/aluminum stub with 2 or perhaps 4 ferrous bolts and a Hall effect pickup.


If you have the 1/4-20 threaded hole in the end of your motor shaft the easiest option would be to use the pickup I linked to from Manzanita Micro. It is $50 complete, all you would have to add is the shaft spacer and a longer 1/4-20 bolt. It has been used with Zilla controllers many times and is known to work well. I used it in the Datsun conversion and it worked for me.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

EVfun said:


> If you have the 1/4-20 threaded hole in the end of your motor shaft the easiest option would be to use the pickup I linked to from Manzanita Micro. It is $50 complete, all you would have to add is the shaft spacer and a longer 1/4-20 bolt. It has been used with Zilla controllers many times and is known to work well. I used it in the Datsun conversion and it worked for me.


Its a little hard to tell.... does that little 'puck' just bolt into the end of the shaft, and presumably has 4 quadrants ferrous/non-ferrous or magnets inside it. then the end piece just gets bolted right to the motor face?



....and one other little tidbit that falls out here is that the Zilla hairball seems to be expecting 4 pulses per rev, and Soliton is expecting 2.... that that true, or just a default? I guess I am asking so I can consider the most flexible solution, and which will work the best to generate a signal that the controller AND and aftermarket tachometer will accept.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> Its a little hard to tell.... does that little 'puck' just bolt into the end of the shaft, and presumably has 4 quadrants ferrous/non-ferrous or magnets inside it. then the end piece just gets bolted right to the motor face?


The little puck bolts to the end of the motor shaft, but a spacer and longer bolt is needed because they shaft is cut a little short in the single shaft ADC 8 inch motors. The end piece bolts to the the motor face. 



> ....and one other little tidbit that falls out here is that the Zilla hairball seems to be expecting 4 pulses per rev, and Soliton is expecting 2.... that that true, or just a default? I guess I am asking so I can consider the most flexible solution, and which will work the best to generate a signal that the controller AND and aftermarket tachometer will accept.


I would have to look at the Zilla manual to determine pulses for sure. I thought it was 2 per revolution (a 4 cylinder 4 stroke engine fires twice per revolution.) I wired that unit to the Zilla Hairball and determined that it did limit rpm. The Hairball can drive a standard tach, but didn't have one in the stock dash.


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## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

If my adc 8 does not have a 1/4-20 hole just a dimple is that a tough thing to drill and tap one? machine shop better do it? There is a dimple. So I'd at least be centered to start with. the shaft is probably tough to drill though
Thanks


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

zapyourrideguy said:


> If my adc 8 does not have a 1/4-20 hole just a dimple is that a tough thing to drill and tap one? machine shop better do it? There is a dimple. So I'd at least be centered to start with. the shaft is probably tough to drill though
> Thanks



the shafts are not hardened.... they drill fine w/ regular drill bits.


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