# Can anyone comment on this conversion?



## cast (Mar 30, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65OUr6_jpJM&feature=related

I thought it was pretty cool. Its performance sounds very good. Does anyone know more about what motor or batteries they might use? I am interested to find out how much it would cost if I DIY a mustang conversion with similar performance.

I like the idea to put the batteries under the car. Has anyone done this here in this forum?

BTW, they are selling this type of car for around $78,000.

Thanks.


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## Lordwacky (Jan 28, 2009)

Full regen, implys AC motor. Range implies LiFePo batteries. I would question the 200 mile range.... Not likely, even if they are using A123 cells I would doubt it.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

The drive train looks like ac-propulsion to me. 

And on that youtube link the owner talks about 60kW for the 200 miles. I think he means 60*kWh*. And that sounds very plausible to me. 

The only thing is, that 60kWh are a lot of batteries. Very big batteries. How on earth do they get that in that car? It isn't a truck.


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Typical, unfortunate, completely bogus set of claims and numbers designed, not for EV people, but for an ignorant, apparently wealthy person that can be tricked into an impossible EV dream.

Sigh. Why does (almost) everybody selling an electric car do this?

First, it seems to me 60kWh of cells is almost 1300 lbs. Surely the backseat is gone, as is the GVWR. 

Second, there is complete obfuscation of what the vehicle is, how it is powered, any real specs, even the simple things like whether it has air conditioning or seats 4 people. It feels really snake-oily. An "85 mile" or a "200 mile" version? Let us hope that if those numbers are not achievable, that the vehicle is fully returnable as falsely advertised. 

Third, the classic "payback on fuel savings" and "reduced maintenance cost" shibboleths are tossed in. For what, to make the accountant on the fence about spending $75k for a Mustang with no backseat, half the range of the gas version, no dealer support and a start-up one-man shop behind it jump at the deal because the economics are so compelling? 

Fourth, Kurt has a bad habit of stupifying the numbers. On TV he tells a reporter it costs "$4,000 to $11,000 depending on... your income level... " to convert a car. Good God, that's absurd. I know he is folding in tax refunds, incentives, etc., but geez, there are $40,000 worth of components on this car. Worse, delivery if someone pays today is "4 to 6 months we can get the first one out..." Confidence inspiring! 0-60 in 5.6 seconds? Really? Doesn't this thing weigh two tons? That's fast!

Sorry to be harsh, but this type of "product" does the EV community no service. Its a prototype, with no specifications, that no one can look at. It comes out of nowhere direct to the public (and the idiotic television news media) with performance, pricing and delivery claims that make no sense, and the rest of us are left to answer questions about why the car isn't actually available.

This kind of thing makes me cringe every time I see it, which is frankly all-too-often...

TomA


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Jan
I am building a lotus 7 type of car,
The motor fits where the gearbox used to go
and I can fit 36 Thunder-sky 200AH cells in a single layer in the engine bay (23Kwhrs)

A Mustang is a bit bigger, two layer are only 23 inches tall

Between the engine bay and where the fuel tank was I think 60 Kwhrs is do-able 
94 cells - 564 Kg


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Assuming the car is legit, this is my guess on how he did it.

Definately ACP's drivetrain setup (and we know it runs well on a fixed ratio from the T-zero example). What's more is thats not an easy setup to get your hands on. While this looks like poor quality vaporware, I have to wonder if there might be something to it for this reason alone.....unless he stole it somehow.

Batteries?

That 200 mile range won't happen in that car with LiFePO4. No amount of positive thinking will change that

He must either be using 18650 LiCo2 cells or Kokam LiPo cells.

18650 cells could actually be cheaper in up front cost than LiFePO4, but life span is shorter and BMS must be much more advanced. Tesla is currently using such a system which was again first tried on real scale by ACP's T-zero. These are also still the mainstay of most laptop computers.

Kokam LiPo cells would deliver better energy density, wider operating range and longer service life thanks to the polymer electrolyte........but its also VERY expensive and still requires advanced, "live" BMS.

The claim of installing the batteries below the floor also makes it very unlikely that he is using a prismatic configuration LiFePO4 battery because there simply isn't enough height under there.

Perhaps he is using a123 systems but I doubt the energy density is high enough for this type of car to reach 200 miles in the real world.

My hunch is that he has not built a 200 mile car yet, and only the 85 mile car exists. The 200 mile car is *sigh* based on a projection.

Speaking of projections.....
Red flag warning:
http://www.pluginmotors.com/BuyF150.html
http://www.pluginmotors.com/BuyaMustang.html < note the unrealistic reacharge time
This is starting to remind me of LionEV.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2010)

I really am from Missouri. I have to see it to believe it. Why isn’t Ford building a Mustang like that if it can be done? A lot of vague claims there. I’m surprised he didn’t mention that it turned on a dime. Lastly I wouldn’t trust or buy anything from someone who would let themselves be seen in public with a shirt and tie like the one that guy was wearing.


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Duncan said:


> Hi Jan
> I am building a lotus 7 type of car,
> The motor fits where the gearbox used to go
> and I can fit 36 Thunder-sky 200AH cells in a single layer in the engine bay (23Kwhrs)
> ...


Nope, the engine bay on the Mustang is loaded with the motor and controller. The trunk floor may be raised a little on the prototype, but there is still a pretty ordinary looking trunk. Call that a single layer, maybe 35-40 cells. There's a little room behind the rear seat, some more behind each rear wheel, and if the radiator is gone, a little more room there. Super-artful packaging might do it, but not likely. The batteries probably are under or in place of the rear seat. It doesn't matter, though, we shouldn't have to be figuring this out for some mystery car that costs $75k over the glider and, actually, there really isn't one to see.

I also think two layers of batteries packed so closely together that you can't get to the tops of the lower layer without removing the upper would be problematic for a number of reasons, including a high center of gravity. 

Whatever. The car is bogus and its "CEO" is too greasy for my taste. Next.


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

Of course it's real! It's that new carbon-nanofiber super-capacitive fuzzy logic billet battery with bullshittrium enhancement.



david85 said:


> Red flag warning:
> http://www.pluginmotors.com/BuyF150.html
> http://www.pluginmotors.com/BuyaMustang.html < note the unrealistic reacharge time



I'm also fascinated by the claim that double the charging voltage results in 1/10 the recharge time. Reminds me of a proof done by one of my elementary school math teachers. He proved that, in any number system where division by zero is possible, any number is equal to any other number.

-Mark


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Wow a $75,000.00+ Mustang!.............and
I couldn't help but notice his extension cord end is wrapped with black electrical tape.
Great engineering.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hmm...
Lets see, 85 mile range version, absolutely feasible, 200 mile version, definately powered by Bulshitrium. And a 200,000 mile battery life, well I'm quite sure no one has proven lithium tech anywhere near that as yet....Is he giving a warranty on that? lol!

Quality of build for the price? Crap, engine bay wiring looks ropey, power socket botched in the front grill with no cover to get full of flies, grit and crap, yeah great, why not use the existing filler point?

The console thing between the seats looks like something from the original startrek series set, no effort to make it match the style of the cars interior theme...

Far too expensive, for what looks like a very amature conversion, and why no real specs. given on batteries, drivetrain etc?

And finally, would you buy a used car off this guy? LOL!!!!


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

On a more serious note, I agree with the sentiments of TomA. It bums me out to see all the hype and fraud that is always popping up in the EV world. Most people with a bit of technical knowledge can tell the facts from the frauds, but not so for a lot of the "motoring public."

Until they had actually produced and sold more than one car, I was a pretty harsh critic of Tesla motors. Those of us paying attention had to suffer through something like 5 years of hype before anyone got a production car. Finally, Tesla started producing cars that met the claims. Of course, they're expensive as hell, but that's another thing.

Apparently, we're going to have to live with a lot of opportunistic bullshitters fluttering in and out of the EV world. Think of them as this decade's equivalent of the "Former African Government Minister" email scam. Wherever you go, every so often, you're gonna have to scrape the stuff off the bottom of your shoes.

-Mark


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Wirecutter said:


> Apparently, we're going to have to live with a lot of opportunistic bullshitters


Hi Mark, I don't knwo how the situation in the US is, but here in Europe, and especially the Netherlands the bullshit is subsidised. I see that as the source of this: Subsidises apparently attracts a lot of bullshitters.


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

Jan said:


> Hi Mark, I don't knwo how the situation in the US is, but here in Europe, and especially the Netherlands the bullshit is subsidised. I see that as the source of this: Subsidises apparently attracts a lot of bullshitters.


Not subsidies in particular. Money. It's always about the money, and it's the same anywhere. Whether it comes from tax breaks, credits, consumers, or investors with more money than sense. Hooray, capitalism!


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