# General Electric EV1 SCR Control will it work?



## Mike Schenck (Jul 24, 2008)

Hi Chris- Don't know if you're still into this, but thought I'd post and see. I picked up some forklift components last spring, an EV-1 and a Nikko motor from a salvage yard to convert a '71 Bug with. I had a heck of (wasted) time trying to figure out the ups/ downs and info on this controller. I finally found a schematic from an early eighties E-van, wired it up, made all the components, and discovered the controller was a shunt (sep-ex) controller! So, being proven stupid, I bought an Alltrax and have put 900 miles on since the first week of August. My car is a lowly 48V 650A unit, good for 18-22 miles, top speed on the flat of apx 47, no worries. My 11 year old son and I did all the adapters and bracketry ourselves, and in the end, a VW is incredibly simple to convert. We have been very satisfied with it- I learned who not to but stuff from, who TO buy stuff from, and found some very intelligent and sympathetic support on the way (not from most retailers though!!) . If you have the right motor for the unit, I'd be happy to fax you the info I have- I did make the EV-1 work, just not in this car. Be happy to offload it to someone with a shunt motor though... Good luck!


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

Still have the SEP-EX controller? I have a SEP-EX motor I nee da controller for.


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## Mike Schenck (Jul 24, 2008)

Hi Bill- Yes, I do have the EV-1 with the drivers etc. I also have an EV-100, but I have not tested it. They have the 48V cards.. I do have the schematic for the EV-1, and it looks like I still have the drivers hooked up (I just went and looked at it). I don't know that 48V is enough for you, but if it is, let me know, I'm certain we can come to an arrangement! Thanks, Mike


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## Chris Sandberg (Sep 13, 2008)

Hello Mike, Ya I am still around the project has been put on hold for funding. I keep reading all the time and learning as I go. I would be very interested in what you were able to do with your EV-1 control and how you determined it was a sep-ex control? Maybe I need to check mine. I have some drawings(see attachments) of the control wiring and the proposed changes I want to do, could you or anyone comment about this, will it work? Mike send me a PM and maybe we can connect for the fax idea. My motor ended up working fine, ran it on 12vdc and was told by a old timer from a motor shop (he new the motor) its rated for up to 120vdc so I may go that high later but for now 48vdc is what I am going to try first and your project seems to prove it is possible.
TX to everyone 
Chris a newbie/beginner


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## Mike Schenck (Jul 24, 2008)

Hey Chris-
I just went out and dug through my junk and found the controller wiring diagram. I got it from this site: memweb.newsguy.com/~apeweek/ElectraVan.html
and it helped a bunch. To my limited knowledge, as long as you have 5 lugs on the controller, it's shunt wound. If you try to hook series wound, it will only get excitation amperage and you will be thoroughly disgusted. Back to Dave Muse's site: The service manual has all the info you need... You'll notice the extra connections for the motor... 
I had a heck of a time finding this or anybody that knew anything about these buggers. M.D. and L.B. are the drivers to satisfy closing the contactor and flowing current, so you must have them or it will be much more difficult to wire. If for some reason you have difficulty getting the wiring diagram and controller manual from this site, let me know. I do have copies of all the info. Out for the day... Mike


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## mamodbasher (Apr 22, 2009)

Mike Schenck said:


> Hi Bill- Yes, I do have the EV-1 with the drivers etc. I also have an EV-100, but I have not tested it. They have the 48V cards.. I do have the schematic for the EV-1, and it looks like I still have the drivers hooked up (I just went and looked at it). I don't know that 48V is enough for you, but if it is, let me know, I'm certain we can come to an arrangement! Thanks, Mike


Do you possibly have the wiring drawing for the EV-100?? I have this controller and am not having much luck finding a clean schematic of the unit. I know it works, cuz I rode the truck myself, but I can't figure out what the connections are to make it think that the driver is on the seat and the brake is off and the key is on and it's in forward. The diagram that I have is blurry and unreadable - help!!  Ken.


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## Mike Schenck (Jul 24, 2008)

Hi Ken- No, I never went after any info for the EV-100 controller I have. I don't even have any good ideas of where to start.... After a 1012 miles on my Bug, I sold it in good working order, and have moved on. My next project is small displacement diesel mileage, so good luck to you !!!
Mike


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## sirintv (May 19, 2010)

Mike Schenck said:


> Hi Ken- No, I never went after any info for the EV-100 controller I have. I don't even have any good ideas of where to start.... After a 1012 miles on my Bug, I sold it in good working order, and have moved on. My next project is small displacement diesel mileage, so good luck to you !!!
> Mike


hello all pls help me because i need ev-1 scr control card schematic ...i have many card here not all working ...


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## Lee Hart (Oct 16, 2009)

sirintv wrote:
> hello all pls help me because i need ev-1 scr control card schematic...
> i have many card here not all working.

I'm in somewhat the same position. I have two EV-1's, both working. These controllers are crude, but tough as nails. They make the motor "sing" a little bit, and you won't get quite the range you'd have with a modern controller.

Both of my EV-1s came with 24-48v control cards. I bought a 24-84v control card, and simply plugging it in makes the controller work up to 84v.

But, I only have one of these cards. I've looked for control card schematics, but never found any. I'm willing to trace it out, but that requires having a dead card that can be sacrificed (I have to pull parts to follow the traces underneath the parts, and measure the actual values of the removed parts). Anyone have any dead cards?


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

We have used these years ago when there was a 120 volt EV-1 controller available, the board and components were about twice the size of what is pictured in this thread though. Anyhow, these people may be able to help, they do rebuild the cards. www.fsip.biz They have always been helpful to us.
Mike
www.EV-propulsion.com


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## Lee Hart (Oct 16, 2009)

EV-propulsion.com said:


> We have used these years ago when there was a 120 volt EV-1 controller available, the board and components were about twice the size of what is pictured in this thread though. Anyhow, these people may be able to help, they do rebuild the cards. www.fsip.biz They have always been helpful to us.
> Mike
> www.EV-propulsion.com



Thanks, Mike. The link is to Flight Systems. They are good folks, and I've bought from them before (expensive, though). They repair cards, but I don't think they upgrade them, except in very basic ways. The 24-84v card is clearly a different PCB layout than the lower voltage cards; it has a DC/DC converter for one thing. I haven't seen a 120v or 144v card, but I know they exist.

My hope is to find a "dead" 24-84v (or higher) card that I can reverse engineer to learn how it works, and how to repair or modify them.

The EV-1 controllers came in at least four sizes (-A, -B, -C, -D), based on voltage and current rating. I have an EV-1B and an EV-1D. Sizes:

EV-1B: 14" x 8.75" x 7.5", 30 lbs, 2 capacitors.
EV-1D: 16" x 11" x 7.5", 60 lbs, 4 capacitors.

I think the EV-1A is the same size as the EV-1B, but has only one capacitor and it is laying down rather than standing up. The EV-1C size is in between the -B and -D, and has two capacitors.


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## kubvan (Dec 9, 2014)

Did you ever reverse engineer the EV1 or find a schematic, I think i have a dead one and wonder about fixing it myself, I have been a tech most of my life so assuming the part # are still on the parts and its not potted it must be serviceable. I realize this is an old thread, but figured it was worth asking. might try to open it up today.



Lee Hart said:


> Thanks, Mike. The link is to Flight Systems. They are good folks, and I've bought from them before (expensive, though). They repair cards, but I don't think they upgrade them, except in very basic ways. The 24-84v card is clearly a different PCB layout than the lower voltage cards; it has a DC/DC converter for one thing. I haven't seen a 120v or 144v card, but I know they exist.
> 
> My hope is to find a "dead" 24-84v (or higher) card that I can reverse engineer to learn how it works, and how to repair or modify them.
> 
> ...


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## Lee Hart (Oct 16, 2009)

I've partially traced out my GE EV-1B, and put my schematic, pictures, and description at http://www.sunrise-ev.com. I did find a 24-84v oscillator card as well, and took a look inside. It's all built with standard through-hole parts, except for a couple ICs with GE in-house numbers. I don't know what they are, which will make it difficult to "hack". So if the problem is on your oscillator card, it's probably easiest to get another one from Flight Systems (or eBay).

But all the power circuitry is wired point-to-point on the main panel. You shouldn't have too much trouble checking or replacing these parts.


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## kubvan (Dec 9, 2014)

Cool website, I used to write a lot of 1802 code in the 80's, those were fun times. I still have the first three years of DR Dobbs, and that popular electronic issue with the elf 1802, I gonna have to buy one of your business cards, it s just too cool.

Anyway I took the module apart today, complex puppy.
The chip parts I have been able to identify are :
LM224F - Quad op amp
LM239 - Quad differential converter
LM2901 - Quad differential comparator
SC76524LH -unable to find on web
Motorola 850-3a - unable to find on web

With the quad and differentials I should be able to at least put a scope on and see if it is alive.


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## Lee Hart (Oct 16, 2009)

Thanks! Yes, the old 1802 is a fun chip. I used it to make an AC motor controller for one of my EVs way back in 1978.

Your board looks just like my R09 (24-84v) oscillator card. The two SC... chips are specials that Motorola made for GE (SC... instead of MC...). They might just be standard ICs with extra testing, or could be a totally unique custom IC.

These cards aren't too difficult to find on the web. That would be easier than reverse-engineering it... but you wouldn't learn as much.  I've often thought it would be interesting to use modern parts to make a *new* open-source SCR controller.


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## kubvan (Dec 9, 2014)

Looks like the Oscillator card is dead.
Pretty sure I got all the interlocks sorted.
r1 has 8 volts
r4 & r5 both seem to have 4.6 volts regardless of potentiometer setting.
Picked up a couple of voltages on the chip Vcc's and on the one regulator.
Scope showed no life except a high speed clock signal probably from the crystal on the mystery 28 pin chip.
Guess I will shop on ebay for a new board.

Certainly building a new controller even with an 1802 would be fun, but not today. I will let you know how I make out.


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## ev1 dude (Jan 5, 2015)

Just making sure here but did you make sure to connect R4 to ground. It was disconnected from the board ground when 1E9, 1H9, and 1T9 cards were introduced due to field techs using it as common ground instead of just an accelerator ground. This would fry the ground trace running across the control card in many cases. It appears you have a 5H9 card. The card won't accelerate without this ground attachment. If you want some piece of mind about the card you can send it off to FSIP and get them to do a test and advise on the card. If it works they will let you know. If it doesn't I believe they will waive the test fee if you let them re manufacture the card you sent in for cheaper than a outright buy of one of their cards because you supplied the core.


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## kubvan (Dec 9, 2014)

Heh thanks"dude" for following up.
I have made quite a bit of progress since the last post.
I did not connect R4 to ground I was only using on the accelerator circuit.
I will look at that again later.
I followed the manual to test the SCR's and found one, the smaller stud mount one to be shorted. I have so far been unable to find a replacement.
I suppose I could contact flight systems, I was trying to find an original part it however looks like an in house part number, "259A9209pxm GE8126"
Any idea's would be appreciated.
After I found the defective SCR I started hunting around for a different controller and found another abandoned EV project and scored a Curtis 1231C a bigger motor and a stack of 12 volt chargers.
I just this evening finished testing the controller on both the original motor and the motor that came with the controller. All good now. It was a bit tricky figuring out how to get the generator/starter motor to go as the field was incorrectly wired to the armature. To work with the Curtis controller it has to be disconnected and hooked directly to the M- only. see the attached pic.
Hmm funny the volt meter was reading 30 volts probably must have fell off. The scope is the field connection. I would like to be able to fix the EV-1 I found another rebuilt oscillator board on ebay and have that now too. I have three motors now so would like to be able to get another working set that I could pass on to someone else. I plan in the long run to use the motor that came with the 2nd controller. The second picture shows the original motor installed in the rabbit which is why I am not using the 2nd motor right away. Any suggestions for the SCR appreciated. Thx


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## ev1 dude (Jan 5, 2015)

Here is a little tidbit for you. On your control card there are three dip switches. They are labeled 1,2,and 3. 2 is currently in the on position. That is the "H" switch. If you turn that switch off and turn the "1" switch on you will have turned on the "E" switch. This makes your 5H9 card into a 5E9 card. That means you can now use field weakening on this card which increases top speed on downhills with the addition of a field weakening contactor. The only thing you lose is the ability to override 1A demand pickup by adding a jumper from R9 to R4. Oh and if you were wondering what switch 3 is well it will convert your card to a 5T9 card which will not benefit you in any way. It just adds a longer time 1A pickup adjustment. Hardly ever used in the industry.


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## kubvan (Dec 9, 2014)

Ha ha I was wondering about those switches, I have not had a chance to compare the 2nd oscillator I got to see what configuration it is.

PS have you thought about arduino for a PWM controller.
Some ting like this but BIGGER, https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/syren50


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## ev1 dude (Jan 5, 2015)

Which control panel do you have? EV1B = 1 cap, EV1C = 2 caps, EV1D = 4 caps. If you have an EV1D does it have five or six terminals on top of the tranformer block. 5 terminals = 24 volts - 84 volts. 6 terminals = 84volts - 144volts and hard to find. If you could attach a picture of the panel it would be swell. As for the arduino control, I am just trying to help you out with the plethora of knowledge I have in the field of GE SCR controls. I don't recognize the part number you have for the SCR you are referring to. In General you have three SCRs on all the panels. The biggest one is the 1 rectifier. The smallest one is the 5 rectifier. The middle one is the 2 rectifier. Some times on EV1B panels the 5 REC. and 2 REC. are the same size. In this instance the SCR closest to the corner of the panel is the 2 REC. FSIP has an EV1 tech manual containing the Panel layout of the EV1 panels followed by sideways pages with parts to the panels with handy parts numbers. If you are calling FSIP for a price quote on the parts always start with the GE part number. If you don't find it with that number then try the FSIP number. Ignore the other parts columns. Here is a link to the tech manual. http://www.fsip.biz/Documents/EV1.pdf


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## kubvan (Dec 9, 2014)

Mine is the "B" as far as I can tell it is the 5 rec that is shorted, the smaller one second from the top left corner. It has one large Cap.
the oscillator board is marked 24-84 volt.
I found the part # in the FS manual and will phone them Tuesday.

Thanks for your help.


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