# Help Programming a Kelly KD Controller



## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I just got a new Kelly KD72503 controller (SepEx w/regen) and am trying to test out the rs232 programmer. I hooked up 24V (positive to PWR and negative to B-) and the rs232 with Kelly converter to the controller plug.

I am getting the following two flashing errors, and when I launch the kelly program it cannot connect to the controller.

1,3 - Low Voltage error
2,1 - Throttle sensor fault

The second error makes sense since I don't have that hooked up, but I measured the voltage to be 25.1V.


Do I need the throttle hooked up to get the program to launch? Any ideas about the low voltage error?

Thanks


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2009)

alxpril said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just got a new Kelly KD72503 controller (SepEx w/regen) and am trying to test out the rs232 programmer. I hooked up 24V (positive to PWR and negative to B-) and the rs232 with Kelly converter to the controller plug.
> 
> ...


You should be able to connect to your controller with nothing hooked up. Talk to Kelly. It should work. Did you hook stuff up to see if it would work before you decided to hook up your computer? Unhook all your connections and try again. The only things that should be hooked to your controller should be your 24 volts to your PWR and the Neg to B-. 
Be sure your connections are solid? 
Mine works fine. I can connect every time.

Did you have something go wrong before you decided to check your controller? 

Low voltage errors usually come up when you have the controller hooked to the car and something is wrong.

Pete : )


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Nothing went wrong, I just hooked it up to try out the programmer right after getting it. All the connections seem good.

The only other thing I thought of is I am running the rs232 from a laptop docking station which might cause a problem. I checked a few pins and they are getting voltage so I don't know. Anyone else try connecting via a dell docking station?


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2009)

alxpril said:


> Nothing went wrong, I just hooked it up to try out the programmer right after getting it. All the connections seem good.
> 
> The only other thing I thought of is I am running the rs232 from a laptop docking station which might cause a problem. I checked a few pins and they are getting voltage so I don't know. Anyone else try connecting via a dell docking station?


Connect directly to the computer. Many try different things when it comes to hooking up with the RS232's and many just don't work. Just hook directly to the computer.

Pete : )


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

I had problems getting a dell laptop to talk to KDX controller also. I could talk with desktop no problem. Are you usinf a USB to rs-232 adaptor, some of them are not compatible.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2009)

I do have the usb converter but I never used it. I did buy all my connections from Kelly to be sure they are compatible with the controller. I have the Kelly SCI RS232 Converter attached to a SCI cable. One end connects to the controller and the other the computer. It works flawless. Since I have a SCI on the back of my laptop I did not need to use the usb. As you already know some usb adapter things just don't work all that well. My computer has lost it's input power so I can't hook it up right now but when I do I can get some photos of the screen to show you. If you can use a computer with SCI. If you can bring in your controller and have a portable 24 volt source you can do your controller adjustments in the house. 

Pete : )


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

I have to use the dock since the laptop itself doesn't have a serial port. Will try it on a different computer this weekend. 

Any ideas about the low voltage error?

Thanks for all the input so far.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

The low voltage error occurs because there is nothing plugged into the B+, so just ignore it for now. My Kelly always displays the Low Voltage when I program it because you are supposed to have B+ disconnected to prevent any problems, so I just turn off my B+ breaker when I program.

Another note- I am using an IBM 600x laptop to program, but I have also tried an old Dell CPiA that only worked if the controller was on and plugged into the laptop before I actually turned the laptop on. The IBM didn't care.


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

No luck with the other laptop going directly to serial with no docking station. 

Also tried switching to a variable dc power supply instead of the two motorcycle batteries I was using before and only turning on the computer after the controller was powered up. 

Not sure what else to try. Going to email Kelly to see if they can help.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2009)

alxpril said:


> No luck with the other laptop going directly to serial with no docking station.
> 
> Also tried switching to a variable dc power supply instead of the two motorcycle batteries I was using before and only turning on the computer after the controller was powered up.
> 
> Not sure what else to try. Going to email Kelly to see if they can help.


You do have this don't you?


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Yup. Anyway to check if the converter is ok?


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2009)

Not sure if there is a way to check it. Does your computer respond when you connect the cables but don't hook them up then open the program? What happens? Got the right program? Just thinking from all angles. Emailing Kelly is a good idea! If you do get it going please let us know what it took to get it to work. Since your Kelly works I assume it should talk to your computer. Is your computer recognizing the cable? On the right port that the computer expects? Just thinking! 

Pete : )


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

I have version 2.5 of the KD program. From here: http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/Kelly KD User Program Setup v2.5.zip

Program gives the same error if the controller is connected or not, I'm not sure what you mean by "connect the cables but don't hook them up." The program doesn't get anywhere past the error message so I don't know how to adjust port settings..

I'll post what Kelly replies.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2009)

alxpril said:


> I have version 2.5 of the KD program. From here: http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/Kelly KD User Program Setup v2.5.zip
> 
> Program gives the same error if the controller is connected or not, I'm not sure what you mean by "connect the cables but don't hook them up." The program doesn't get anywhere past the error message so I don't know how to adjust port settings..
> 
> I'll post what Kelly replies.


OK!

I am unsure why your program would give an error message like that if the controller was not hooked up. Seems like maybe a program issue. I do have the older version but it's on my PC and not my Mac. I will see if I have a different version tucked away somewhere. 

Pete


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2009)

I have the same version. Something is weird about your setup on your computer. Not yet sure but something is not right. : (

Pete


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2009)

Please use straight RS232 cable to connect with PC.

This is direct from the PDF instruction book. I assume that there is a different kind of RE232 cable that is not straight. If you have a non straight one then that may be your problem. Did you get your Kelly converter and cable from Kelly? I assume so but then again many try to save a buck doing their own thing thinking that it will work. You know it is just a cable but guess what it is not that way. Did you cut a corner? Just have to ask to eliminate all possible issues. Trouble shooting on the web is tough. Usually gotta dig for the problem. Mmmmmm, just thinking again. 

Pete


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

gottdi said:


> Please use straight RS232 cable to connect with PC.
> 
> This is direct from the PDF instruction book. I assume that there is a different kind of RE232 cable that is not straight. If you have a non straight one then that may be your problem. Did you get your Kelly converter and cable from Kelly? I assume so but then again many try to save a buck doing their own thing thinking that it will work. You know it is just a cable but guess what it is not that way. Did you cut a corner? Just have to ask to eliminate all possible issues. Trouble shooting on the web is tough. Usually gotta dig for the problem. Mmmmmm, just thinking again.
> 
> Pete


The other kind of cable is called a "Crossover" or "Laplink" cable. I have a feeling that the converter module that Kelly provides is a simple crossover converter, so using a crossover cable with it will straighten out the signals and make it all not work again.


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

The cable is from here: http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/co-kd-rs232.htm. "This RS 232 Cable is compatiable with your Kelly Controller and PC." The converter came with the controller, which was ordered from the same site so I don't know if they make their own or get them from Kelly.

I don't know if it is the straight type or not. I also tried plugging the converter straight into the computer and controller (not using a cable at all) and that didn't work either.

My com port is set to default of COM1 @ 9600bps. Anyone know if the Kelly program looks at a different COM port or needs to use a different transfer rate?

Also tried a third computer, still nothing.


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Reply from Kelly:

"The fault message doesn't matter. As far as the controller powered, red light flashing means it'a alive. Please make sure you downloaded KD controller configuration program. Usually XP or 2000 is the best to use.
Please note we require straight through RS232 cable. Cable from Kelly should be good."


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Email #2 from Kelly:
"Of past exprience, almost all problems come with software.
You may uninstall the program, download new one and reinstall. Also try different computer is a good idea."

Email #3 from Kelly:
"It should be 19200 baud. 
Please don't set any parameters of port. The program will choose proper value."

Email #4 from Kelly (from a different person then the first three):
"1.The SCI error is SCI question.Please change another SCI and try.
2.Low Voltage error is low voltage.Because of your voltage is 24V rather than 72V.
3.Throttle sensor fault is you havn't connect to throttle."


This is getting pretty frustrating.
So far I have tried three different computer, two rs232 cables, two power supplies and played around with the COM settings and transfer rates to no avail. I've asked if they could send me a replacement SCI converter but since I didn't buy it directly from them I'm not sure if they will send me one. The place I bought it from, electricvehiclesusa.com still hasn't responded to me.

Anyone in the SF bay area with a working SCI converter want to help me out?


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

I am assuming that since you are getting these two errors it won't let you continue. Why would he mention 72 volts. Does your controller require 72 volts to power the controller? Mine is an early Kelly and requires 24 volts. It won't handle 72 volts. When you get your error have you tried to continue? You only need to get to the place to set parameters. I don't understand why you are having trouble. I have connected to mine with nothing more than the computer hook up and a tap of 24 volts off my pack. No error messages or anything like that. I was able to set parameters and hook it up and go. 

Pete : )

Can you send a screen dump when you get these errors? I am surprised. Please get photos of your set up. How your hooking up to the controller and all that. I am trying to help but need more. I need some visual too. It may or may not help but may jog some thinking on how to go about fixing this. It is either a fixable issue because something is amiss or the controller cables are bad or the controller is bad. That is all. 

Pete : )


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Pete, thanks for all the input so far. I can't continue from the error, the two options are "retry" or "cancel". I'll try to get a screenshot later.

I wasn't sure why he said 24V was causing low voltage since Figure 9 of page 14 of the KD user manual shows 24V to pwr.

But then I just got another email while I was writting this: 

"Hi,
Please 72V to B+ and try the SCI.
Thanks"

I don't even think the power supplies I have access to can do 72V, and it would suck not being able to program it without 72V hooked up. I'll see if I can rig something up. If not, I'll post pictures of my setup.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

Don't you have a 72 volt pack?


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

I have plans for a 72V pack 

Not even close to having it built but want to make sure the controller works before I continue.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

If you do just tap off your pack. You do not need heavy gauge wires. Stout but not heavy. I know that the early versions of the Kelly controllers could only accept 24 volts but I think the later ones would accept the full pack voltage to operate the pack. If you have a 72 volt pack just tap and give it a spin. Can't hurt to try. The original was supposed to be able to accept the full pack voltage but it did not. That was fine with me. Still is. But maybe you do need that full pack voltage to work. I figured it would operate at any voltage from 24 to full pack voltage. I could be wrong. 

Pete : )

PS. I am going by what I know with my early generation 72 volt sepex controller.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

Guess you need to let Kelly know that right now and how to resolve checking the parameters. Just let them know you want to learn the program while you wait getting your others things in order before you buy all your batteries. I'd think that you should be able to connect with 24 but like I said I could be wrong. 


Pete : )

If I can get my computer back on line I will hook up my controller and take some screen dumps and photos of the hook up for you.


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Are you saying hook up 72V to pwr or to B+ ?

I assumed the last email from Kelly implied to keep 24V to pwr and add 72V to B+.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

Maybe you should have waited before buying that controller. From what I learned you should only buy that stuff after or when you actually go out and buy your batteries. The reason is some will actually make changes and decide later to go with more ooomph and that would mean a different controller and more or different batteries. Those go hand in hand. 

Pete : )

That is hind site. Learned from others mistakes.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

72 to pwr. Ask Kelly before doing that. Be clear on what you are thinking or wanting to do. I do believe that it is 72 volts or full pack voltage. Not full amperage. The controller will only take what is needed. Fuse it to like 5 amps before you hook up. That way no more than 5 amps will ever go through that set up. It is only to power the components to the controller. For controller function. But it needs to accept the full pack voltage to allow for different things. Mine can't do that. My controller can't turn on or off my main contact switch. Yours should be able to do that. Yours is newer than mine. 

Pete : )


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

Looks like Kelly agrees with you:

"Hi, Please 72V to B+ and PWR. You can see the new user manual from our website wait for a moment. 
Thanks"


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

They changed their mind and say 24V is ok and are sending out a new SCI converter. So I'm just going to wait for that to arrive and hope it works.

I did try hooking up 24V to B+ (no 72V power supply) and the low voltage LED error went away but still could not get the programmer to work.

Here's the error I've been getting:


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2009)

Sounds like the right thing to do. Kelly usually gets things sent rather quickly. That is good service. Glad they are helping. I thought that 24 volts should do for the power but yours can also accept 72 volts where mine can't. Let us know what happens when you get that new converter. I can't wait to hear you say it works!

Pete : )


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## alxpril (Dec 21, 2008)

IT WORKS! I got a new SCI converter from Steven at kelly today and the program booted right up and ran with no problems. I guess I just got a bad converter the first time around. Hopefully all continues to work for the upcoming full system bench test.

You don't need the full 72V to the controller like Kelly and electricvehicleusa.com both initially told me.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2009)

Your right. Should do fine with 24 volts. Glad to hear you have had some progress. I await your results. 

Pete : )


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## biscayne (May 15, 2009)

You hooked 24V to pwr and B-
Is B- connected to controll poaer ground iternally?
Just a thought.


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## Watt-a-mezz (May 20, 2009)

Glad to hear you got it to work. Was following along to see what happened. Haven't tried to program mine (KDH 9500) but when I hooked it up to 12v I got the same codes. Will be using my laptop to program, may have more questions later. Take Care, Watt


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Watt-a-mezz said:


> Glad to hear you got it to work. Was following along to see what happened. Haven't tried to program mine (KDH 9500) but when I hooked it up to 12v I got the same codes. Will be using my laptop to program, may have more questions later. Take Care, Watt


Print out the manual and hook up 24 volts to the controller. 24 volts to PWR and B-. You do not need any thing else hooked up to program your controller. I do mine out of the vehicle all the time since it is not in the vehicle right now. 

Pete 

Use Kelly supplied hookups for the computer.


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## Watt-a-mezz (May 20, 2009)

gottdi said:


> Print out the manual and hook up 24 volts to the controller. 24 volts to PWR and B-. You do not need any thing else hooked up to program your controller. I do mine out of the vehicle all the time since it is not in the vehicle right now.
> 
> Pete
> 
> Use Kelly supplied hookups for the computer.


 Thanks, Pete. took a look at my laptop and I may have to order the S232 with the usb end. Kelly sells a package with the usb cable and some sort of cd rom disk program. Would I need that or is the program already in the controller? If I could Iwould just buy the cable alone. Take Care,Watt


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Should be able to down load the program direct from Kelly site. I did. Even the new one. 

Pete 

I think the disk if for the cable junk.


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## Watt-a-mezz (May 20, 2009)

Good deal, Kelly wants $25.00 plus $10 shipping. Looks like I can save a few bucks. Thanks again for the help.
Take care,Watt


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

Watt-a-mezz said:


> Thanks, Pete. took a look at my laptop and I may have to order the S232 with the usb end. Kelly sells a package with the usb cable and some sort of cd rom disk program. Would I need that or is the program already in the controller? If I could Iwould just buy the cable alone. Take Care,Watt


I tried that and still couldn't communicate. Some usb to serial converters aren't compatible with the Kelly program. To be safe use the one they sale.


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## Guest (May 23, 2009)

You need this.


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## Watt-a-mezz (May 20, 2009)

Hello Pete & EB, Thanks for the info. I would have been forever getting the thing to work. Will order one from kelly,with the SCI converter. Take Care, Watt


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## Robbievl (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi,
I recently purchased a kelly KBL controller and today tried to hook it up to my computer for configuration. I have the USB to RS232 converter and got pretty much the same results as other people at the start of this thread.
I was wondering if, for the KBL controller, I need that SCI converter for it to speak to my computer. I'm not too sure if it will work with my controller because on Kelly's site:
http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=136
it says this is just for the KD and KDS models...
any ideas?
cheers
Robbie


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

If you use the usb you also need to down load the driver for it. Just google usb rs 232 driver and you should find one to down load. Once the driver is in it will work without the scsi converter. Both my controllers talk just fine with my computer. I can use either the scsi adaptor or the usb adaptor. You do have voltage attached to the controller don't you? How much? I am working on another controller but I think they sent the wrong one. I can however still talk to the controller. 

Pete


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

You can still ask Kelly. They have excellent customer service. They will answer. I have always had excellent service from them.


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## Robbievl (Jun 22, 2009)

Yeh i had about 20V supplied to the controller (in the manual it says >18V). Is current an issue? Do you need a minimum amount of current (mine was probably quite low) for it to be able to connect with the computer?
I installed the software that came with the usb to rs232 converter, shouldnt this be sufficient?
thanks again
robbie


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## Element One Dan (May 30, 2009)

Can anyone tell me what the capabilities are for kelly controllers regarding programming with the RS232 and its CAN capabilities? The demonstration page seems very basic and I was hoping for more features.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2009)

Kelly controllers do not have gobs of features. I do not know about CAN interface but the RS232 USB works perfect on my controllers. I have two of them. 

Pete


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## Element One Dan (May 30, 2009)

Well what features DOES it have? I would really be most interested in knowing 
1. what parameters can i modify
2. what operations (i.e. instaneous current, voltage) can I view?

I understand this is sort of a tall order in a request, and I would be appreciative of any insight into what I am actually capable of changing.

Thanks!!


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2009)

Your manual will tell you what you can do. Not all Kelly controllers have the same parameters. 

Pete


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