# New EV drivetrain from Nissan



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

That is no more an ev than a standard Honda Insight .

Hopefully they offer it as an phev , very compelling though getting over 60mpg us


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

rmay635703 said:


> That is no more an ev than a standard Honda Insight .
> 
> Hopefully they offer it as an phev , very compelling though getting over 60mpg us


 No, the Honda was a Series hybrid.
This is pure EV drive, the ICE is only a generator.
More akin to the BMW i3Rex
PHEV would be a bit pointless with such a small pack, and a bigger pack just increases the cost, weight, and space issues.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

This is NOT an EV drive, period.

If you can't plug it in a wall it is not an EV.

Trains and Honda Accord hybrid are series hybrids.

The only thing novel is that the motor shaft in a shaft is used to micro size the motor generator combo.

Also novel is a small, light, aerodynamic and efficient body is used to get good mpgs.

This car is very likely not going to be sold here so almost irrelevant.

The vw Lupo and Daihatsu charade non-turbo diesel both beat its mpgs so for foreign markets its a new thing but not breaking new efficiency records.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Try again..
The Accord is still a parallel hybrid with a direct mechanical coupling of the ICE to the drive wheels when required...and not very impressive fuel consumption !
But EV or ?hybrid, plug or no plug ,.. what does it matter how you name it.?
Fact is, it is a economical, quiet, low emmission, vehicle that should be cheaper to produce , due to its small battery pack.
And , as mentioned it primarily a city car, and there are a lot of city dwellers who do not have ready access to power points where they park.


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## bigmotherwhale (Apr 15, 2011)

What a great idea, this is indeed very different to most hybrids in a very significant way, more akin to a diesel train layout.

ICE's work much better when designed to work around a narrow rpm range, i imagine that is where the efficiency increase comes from even tho it has to be converted from mechanical to electrical and then back to mechanical, it shows how efficient modern electronics and motors really are. 

You would have thought capacitors would be more suited to this application, like in the trains? I wonder what batteries they are using.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

I went back and checked, 
Per japans economy standards it gets lower fuel economy than a gen IV Prius.

Unless it's a lot cheaper than the Prius C it is competing with, I don't think it's more than a footnote.

What Nissan needs is a range extended bev in their camp,

No plug, no sale for me at least.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

What I'd love to see is plug-in hybrid version of the Prius C- I LOVE my Prius C and would love one with at least some pure EV range. Regrettably they're only planning to bump up the EV range on the base model, which I find to be too large a car for my tastes.

The stupid thing about my Prius C, and my Prius gen 3 base model too, is that they won't even allow you to use the EV mode to shuffle the cars around in the morning. Why they bothered to provide the (useless) EV mode button is a mystery to me! Every time you press the start button, the car computer wants to run the engine to warm up the emissions control catalyst. It's wasteful, especially in winter when all you want to do is switch the order of the cars on the driveway...


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Karter2 said:


> No, the Honda was a Series hybrid.
> This is pure EV drive, the ICE is only a generator.
> More akin to the BMW i3Rex


An engine driving a generator to provide electrical power for an electric motor is the definition of a series hybrid. And yes, a BMW i3 with the "range extender" engine is also a series hybrid. 

It's true that the series configuration is unusual for hybrids, and especially for non-plug-in hybrids, because it requires a large motor (like a "pure" EV); if the engine is expected to keep up with high continuous power demand it needs a large generator as well. Motor/generators and controllers are much more expensive than mechanical transmissions, so series is an expensive hybrid configuration. The generator-controller-motor combination is also substantially less efficient than a mechanical transmission, which may explain why the fuel efficiency of the Note e-Power is not more impressive; a Prius sends part of the power through a mechanical path and so there is less power lost.

The Volt and the original Accord Hybrid both operate as series hybrids under some conditions (and both operate as parallel hybrids in other conditions).



Karter2 said:


> PHEV would be a bit pointless with such a small pack, and a bigger pack just increases the cost, weight, and space issues.


The i3 with engine is a plug-in series hybrid (due to the large battery capacity and provisions for charging from an external source); this Nissan is clearly not intended as a plug-in, since it has insufficient battery capacity for that mode of operation.

A bigger battery would add cost and weight and take space, but that's the cost of adding the ability to operate as a plug-in... with anyone's design.


Aside from how Nissan intends to use this hardware, the motor with transmission and controller would be usable in a DIY battery electric vehicle... which is true of these parts from any series hybrid. In a few years it will be possible to buy these parts as used bits from Japanese domestic market wrecks, if anyone is sufficiently motivated to make the arrangements. The biggest challenge might be that the motor/transmission case may be integrated with the generator case and engine mounts.


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## minispeed (Jun 30, 2013)

Moltenmetal said:


> What I'd love to see is plug-in hybrid version of the Prius C- I LOVE my Prius C and would love one with at least some pure EV range. Regrettably they're only planning to bump up the EV range on the base model, which I find to be too large a car for my tastes.
> 
> The stupid thing about my Prius C, and my Prius gen 3 base model too, is that they won't even allow you to use the EV mode to shuffle the cars around in the morning. Why they bothered to provide the (useless) EV mode button is a mystery to me! Every time you press the start button, the car computer wants to run the engine to warm up the emissions control catalyst. It's wasteful, especially in winter when all you want to do is switch the order of the cars on the driveway...


Off topic but I find if I have the heat off and am quick I can start up the prius and get it into EV mode to shuffle the cars. As soon as it's cold and the heat is in on/auto position it will start the ICE right away. So I'll turn off the heat, turn off the car and then I'd be able to re start and put it in EV.


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## WebbRowan (Mar 8, 2016)

"If you can't plug it in a wall it is not an EV." I didn't know there would be such a distinction and I agree with @Karter2 that why should it matter as long as it does its job to be effectively more sustainable and eco-friendly. Sorry if this sounds a little off-putting. I'm just new wrapping my head around the different categories of the EV.


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