# Milk Float Motor



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Sounds good to me, an old motor designed and intended to be used in an EV. Should be up too the job of moving a Vectra or Hilux though it depends on what your perormance expectations are and your battery and controller choice.

Photos?

Is it the blue one that was recently on Ebay?

I have a 12" diameter, 96V, Morrisons milk float motor and it was a lovely beast until it was wrecked by some shoddy machining.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Sounds good to me, an old motor designed and intended to be used in an EV. Should be up too the job of moving a Vectra or Hilux though it depends on what your perormance expectations are and your battery and controller choice.
> 
> Photos?
> 
> ...


No, the only blue one I have seen on ebay was a hydraulic motor and the guy didn't reply to me when I asked for info. (just looked it is still there).
This is a guy who has advertised the parts from a milk float for £125.
I spoke to him today and he said he has a number of motors some bigger than this one.
I am going to collect on Thursday, I am looking forward to rooting around his garage.

I don't need a lot of range, about the village mostly, I rather like my Hylux Surf (runs on 100% home made BIO) but the wife said I am not allowed to strip it down so I am looking the estate route and then maybe sell the 4X4 afterwards.

I am planning a home made controller (I am an ex computer engineer, retired) and I thought about 150volts or there abouts.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I have a 12" diameter, 96V, Morrisons milk float motor and it was a lovely beast until it was wrecked by some shoddy machining.


What happened to your motor, how is it wrecked???


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> What happened to your motor, how is it wrecked???


I needed the tapered shaft turning parallel and then parting off and a new bearing land turning on to it. The machinist was a chap at work doing me a favour and he, somehow, turned it off centre. It will be a big and costly job to put right or change the armature.

I'll not worry about it for now as I have another motor to use.

When you have a look around the milkfloat see if you can spot the reversing switch. I am after one if the price is low enough.

Have you a link to the seller?
Cheers.

ETA: Just found the listing and have asked about the switch. If I buy it I may ask you to collect it for me and I will pick it up from you to save me the long drive. Thanks.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Do you have a picture?

My motor was apparently from a morrison milk float, ran at 60v and is 9-10" diameter.

any info from the data plate?

Cheers

Mike


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> ETA: Just found the listing and have asked about the switch. If I buy it I may ask you to collect it for me and I will pick it up from you to save me the long drive. Thanks.



No worries, that will be fine just tell me if you want me to pay him cash. I trust it was Magoo you spoke to. Thursday I am going down....


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

skooler said:


> Do you have a picture?
> 
> My motor was apparently from a morrison milk float, ran at 60v and is 9-10" diameter.
> 
> ...


No picture as yet will post one when I get it....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> No worries, that will be fine just tell me if you want me to pay him cash. I trust it was Magoo you spoke to. Thursday I am going down....


Don't know yet, I have messaged the seller so waiting for a reply.

If I buy it I could paypal first so you can collect, otherwise I will let you know if it needs to be cash.
Thank you.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Don't know yet, I have messaged the seller so waiting for a reply.
> 
> If I buy it I could paypal first so you can collect, otherwise I will let you know if it needs to be cash.
> Thank you.


If I knew how to PM you from here I would send you my mobile number then we can be live on the day.
Email me yours if you want.

It might be worth calling him he is an old guy like me and a bit slow on the messages.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> If I knew how to PM you from here I would send you my mobile number then we can be live on the day.


Click on the user name at the top left of the post and you will get a drop down menu. From there you can click on the 'send private message to ...' option.

I will phone the seller and see how it goes, I'll let you know, cheers.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have sent you a PM, John, the chap has a switch that might suit my needs.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Here are the pics of my motor and some other bits I picked up yesterday.
The cable measures 2X 9mt and is about 10mm thick.
The motor is actually 11ins dia by 15ins plus 4ins of coupling.
It has four sets of twin brushes which I was surprised at.

The bearings have a grease nipple on each, do you think I should strip them out and replace with sealed bearings????

I powered it with 12v and it runs very nicely not as fast as your motor ran in that video Woodsmith. There are also pictures of your reversing switch complete with grease.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Just a few more pictures..

Is the bolts in the slots near the brushes where I would advance the motor.
I assume about 10 degrees to run it on 14volts nominal.

I assume if the motor sins clockwise then advancing would mean moving the brushes anti-clockwise, is this correct???
John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That motor looks good, I'll have a better look at it when I come over to pick up the reversing switch, thank you for getting that for me.

The Anderson plug looks ok, check how the cables are connected to the terminals though, if they are crimped then that would make it difficult to reuse without new terminals but if they are soldered then a blow torch should release them and you can reuse them.

You may need to make up a tool to undo the nut on the end of the motor shaft, it looks like a cylindrical nut that needs a pronged driver to undo it. I undid mine with a drift but yours loos too deeply recessed to do that. The nut is just a cylinder with an internal thread. It should have a cut on one side to allow the threads to be crushed together as a simple thread locking.
Plenty of WD40 should allow it to derust nicely.

The bolts in the slots at the comm end do allow for advance, that is a nice bonus.

When we meet you can pick my brains about opening it up to check and clean.

major is the best person to advise on what you find inside though.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> That motor looks good, I'll have a better look at it when I come over to pick up the reversing switch, thank you for getting that for me.
> 
> The Anderson plug looks ok, check how the cables are connected to the terminals though, if they are crimped then that would make it difficult to reuse without new terminals but if they are soldered then a blow torch should release them and you can reuse them.
> 
> ...


The Anderson connections look like they are soldered, one pair are long enough to crimp a coupler to but the others are a bit small.
I am trying to figure out how to remove them, it looks like there may be a flat latch inside, maybe I can flip it back.

The motor coupling has a sort of grindstone wheel pin nut, but I will sort that out.
It has a slot head CS screw in one of the pin holes, maybe that is how it is locked.

Hopefully Major will comment later, he did tell me to hang on for a bigun when I was looking at hydraulic motors.

I dont suppose you have an A Frame I could borrow to collect my donor car with, when I buy it.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> The Anderson connections look like they are soldered, one pair are long enough to crimp a coupler to but the others are a bit small.
> I am trying to figure out how to remove them, it looks like there may be a flat latch inside, maybe I can flip it back.
> 
> I dont suppose you have an A Frame I could borrow to collect my donor car with, when I buy it.


There is a sort of leaf spring type clip or barb that holds the terminal in the plastic case of the connector.

I don't have an A frame or car trailer, I used a company on Ebay to transport the MR2 but I don't think they advertise anymore.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> There is a sort of leaf spring type clip or barb that holds the terminal in the plastic case of the connector.
> 
> I don't have an A frame or car trailer, I used a company on Ebay to transport the MR2 but I don't think they advertise anymore.


OK Thanks. I think I will buy an A frame, it will be cheaper than transport and may be useful again sometime.
John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> OK Thanks. I think I will buy an A frame, it will be cheaper than transport and may be useful again sometime.
> John


Check the legality of that.
A car on an A frame constitutes a trailer and as such it will need to meet trailer regulations including lighting, weight and overrun/auto reverse braking if it is over the maximum unbraked mass for your tow vehicle or 750kg whichever is the smaller.

They are generally only legal for moving a car to a place of safety following a breakdown and if there is a driver in the car to activate brakes, lights etc.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Ordered a trailer for Saturday to collect my donor car.
Got the coupling off the motor, the lock nut came free fairly easily with a gas torch to heat it up and an old broken screwdriver as a drift (lost the little locking screw tho).
Just need to get that rev counter cable nut off the brush end of the shaft, I think it might be locked on with an allen key screw, cant be sure yet cuz the hole is full of crap.

Then I will pull the armature out and replace the bearings after cleaning and repainting the motor.
Woody, what was the name of that air blower you said to get to add forced cooling into the motor?
Regards John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Woody, what was the name of that air blower you said to get to add forced cooling into the motor?
> Regards John


I was thinking something along the lines of one of these on the basis if cost, compactness and simplicity.
I don't know how powerful they are but I guess a visit to a yacht chandlers might give you the chance to feel one in action.

However, anything similar with a good 'blow' should do as it will only be cooling when the motor is running slow or stopped. At speed the motor's internal fan will move a lot more air through the motor. A system of one way flaps may be needed to allow the internal fan to pull more air, bypassing the small blower, when it needs it.


Good luck with the car transporting.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi Woody.
I pulled my motor apart today, the pieces weigh just as much individually as it did when it was in one piece.
The rotor has about four lots of banding around the armature so should hold together OK at speed.

Just got to make a big puller to push the drive shaft out of the bearing. The bearings will come out of the motor end cheeks either side, there is no flange to stop them moving, just the grease covers, so I will still have the covers fitted and fill them with grease just to keep any water out even though I will get sealed bearings.

I got my Volvo up OK on Sat, only took 3.5hrs to get to Southampton and 4 to get back, so well pleased.
I am trying to get the head off to see if the engine is repairable cheaply with a view to either selling the engine working or maybe sell the car at a profit and get another to EV.
Its a nice car tho.
If I keep it to convert I think if I mount the motor with the mounting holes pointing up I can fit a metal plate and bracket it up to the engine mount which is high on the offside inner wing.
The ICE is actually suspended on the OS end at one point only, the other two mounts are on the gearbox fixed to a beam on the bottom. So the whole ICE and gearbox have just three mounting points.

I will post some pics when I have jet washed the motor.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I was thinking something along the lines of one of these on the basis if cost, compactness and simplicity.
> I don't know how powerful they are but I guess a visit to a yacht chandlers might give you the chance to feel one in action.
> 
> However, anything similar with a good 'blow' should do as it will only be cooling when the motor is running slow or stopped. At speed the motor's internal fan will move a lot more air through the motor. A system of one way flaps may be needed to allow the internal fan to pull more air, bypassing the small blower, when it needs it.
> ...


Hi Woody
I am going to get an extractor fan assy from a gas boiler and replace the mains motor with a 12v one from an aircon radiator. These motors run quite fast and I am sure this will push a lot air down a pipe to cool the motor should it be required.
John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> I think if I mount the motor with the mounting holes pointing up I can fit a metal plate and bracket it up to the engine mount which is high on the offside inner wing.
> The ICE is actually suspended on the OS end at one point only, the other two mounts are on the gearbox fixed to a beam on the bottom. So the whole ICE and gearbox have just three mounting points.


That sounds like a good idea for mounting, almost ideal. Do check out the foot mounting holes though, I seem to remember the threads being quite rusty.

If the field coils and pole shoes are removed the holes will pass all the way through so you could clean them and re tap to the next size up.
I have taps for M16x1.5 and M20x2.5 if you need them.

I will try and do a pencil drawing of the motor adapter plate mounting idea for you when I get a moment with a clear head. I can see what I mean but it will take a while to sketch clearly.

Do you have access to anyone with a milling machine with a rotary table? That will help in machining the drive end cap to locate and fit the adapter plate.

The fan idea should be fine.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> That sounds like a good idea for mounting, almost ideal. Do check out the foot mounting holes though, I seem to remember the threads being quite rusty.
> 
> If the field coils and pole shoes are removed the holes will pass all the way through so you could clean them and re tap to the next size up.
> I have taps for M16x1.5 and M20x2.5 if you need them.
> ...



Hi Woody.
I will have a look at the holes, they are pretty big now but I doubt they are metric so going up a size or two will be a good idea, at least there is a lot of metal to play with and there are four of them, thanks for the tap offer.

Sadly I dont know anyone in the machining industry so I will have to find my own way of doing it..

Perhaps I should start a project page somewhere and start posting things now before I forget what I did.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Sadly I dont know anyone in the machining industry so I will have to find my own way of doing it..
> 
> Perhaps I should start a project page somewhere and start posting things now before I forget what I did.


It would be a good idea to get a project thread running, you will also get more input as well. There are many here who have forgotten more then I have ever known about EV conversions, and have put more then one vehicle on the road.

Simon Rafferty, an occasional member here runs X-Eng in Sussex. He would be able to do the machining if you sent bits to him. Otherwise I am still planning on finding machining shops local to me. There is one not far from me but very costly, they would probably charge you for any metal swarf that sticks to your boots on the way out!


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

YES, By all means...Start a build thread.
Miz


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Will do.
Right now I am struggling to get the head off the ICE to see if I can repair it to sell on.
But I am getting close to giving in.
Never try to take the head off a Volvo V40


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> That sounds like a good idea for mounting, almost ideal. Do check out the foot mounting holes though, I seem to remember the threads being quite rusty.
> 
> If the field coils and pole shoes are removed the holes will pass all the way through so you could clean them and re tap to the next size up.
> I have taps for M16x1.5 and M20x2.5 if you need them.
> ...


Hi Woody.
Got the motor totally stripped down, coated in paint stripper and jet washed today, will get some new bearings maybe tomorrow then paint the whole thing back up. The armature has four bands around it so should be OK for high rpm's.

I checked out the mounting holes, they go right thro the case and miss the field coils completely so no need to take them off.
The holes are about 13.5mm ID using my digital micrometer, thread unknown so if possible I would like to borrow your M16 tap.
Do you know the tapping drill size so I can get one.

Got the Volvo ICE out eventually, just waiting for two new track rod ends to replace the ones I wrecked getting them off then I can put the wheels back on and jet wash the engine bay and the real work can start.
I will post pic's at that point.

Finished the blower, not a perfect balance but it blows like hell, will paint tomorrow then post pic's.

I am not sure about milling the end plate because the bearing cap mounting area will be milled as well and that might make the bearing housing too small.
It may be better to pack the end plate to the adapter plate.
I stripped the clutch plate apart and am going to sandwich the splined boss and the associated web between two 4mm ally plates. it will allow the splined boss and web to float by about a mm or so, which might help with any slight mis-alignment of motor and gearbox.


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