# Jerky motor under light Load



## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

This is going to be my second post on this group.
And I hope that I get an answer, in my first post NO ONE!!!!!!
even answered me...... 

I got one person asking me for exactly what I was asking.

So I do hope that SOMEONE can help me. Otherwise this will be marked
as another one of "those" forums.....

I have since been able to get the car running but the motor is super jerky at an almost no-load speed, the speed does not matter, as soon as the load becomes very light on the motor it starts to violently jerk and the ammeter jumps like crazy between almost zero and whatever current it was at until I either put my foot down further on the accelerator or take it off.

Can any one help me, I am a total noob to ev cars, have done quite a few High powered ebikes so know how ev's work.

There are a myriad of parameters that mean squat to me as I do not yet understand all of the terminologies involved in an ev...

I hope that someone will at least take the time to try and help me.

Regards
Charles


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Given the attitude expressed above, I would be surprised if anyone goes to the effort of extracting the information needed to help.

The previous questions were about a specific inverter/controller. It is likely that no one who is currently active in the forum has this specific inverter, so no one was able to assist. I doubt that 57,971 people (the number of registered forum members) each posting "I don't have one of those so I don't know" would have been helpful.

You could post the name of the inverter/controller, for a start.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Type of car, year, motor, controller, voltage, etc.
I have an 84 Fiat x1/9 that would slightly surge at slower and no load speeds.
The amps didn't move that I can remember as you mentioned. 
I rebuilt the trans and set the back lash which solved a lot of the problem so maybe you could look there.
You might also check the throttle pot for wear.


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

What exactly are "those" forums, anyway?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

Brian: well, I do apologise, but when a post has been left, and there is no answer in 4 weeks, how do you think I should feel? I did not know that it was inactive and with 57000 odd at least one could have answered and said "sorry, not familiar with that type of inverter." I would have classified that as an answer. And at least have said thank you! 

JBMan: "those" forums are the ones where you go and get ignored, where no one even has the decency to say hello and welcome how can we help you. It's called common decency. Because, they can see your way in over your head in trying to learn something new from people who I would suppose started a forum to help other people who also wanted to learn something new is that not the point of a forum?....

So forgive me for being brash and not posting any specs, but do you not perhaps think if you were in my shoes that I would after my last post not first see if someone would at least respond to my post?

That is what I would do, and did... 

But! Thank you for answering. If you so feel inclined and do not want to help me as I am to the point then please feel free to ban me, I am a straight shooter if I have offended you I am sorry but I call it the way I see it the way you treat me is how I will treat you, no exceptions. I have allot of respect for people that I can learn from, but I do not like being ignored, that is just wrong. Does not matter how you look at it. 

I will give as much detail I am able to. 

It is a 1983 fiat uno, I believe in USA referred to as a 146, little remains of the original drive train bar the wheels and side shafts, it was converted in 2006 by a german gentleman here in Namibia. 

There is a small differential between motor and side shafts (cv jointed) there is not much info on the name plate the motor is from german origin but is 86A continuous, 100V and 200 Hz is it's frequency. 

The inverter is the mes dea tim400 280A capable, voltage between 80 and 400V. 

I managed somehow to get it all going. 

The problem I am having is maybe an easy fix or not I do not know as I am in over my head, when I come to a complete stop I can sometimes feel a slight rocking of the motor, if I pull up the handbrake and take my foot off of the brake pedal it stops, or if I switch from drive to reverse and back. 

The other problem is when driving and I get to a coasting speed where there is a reduced or almost NO LOAD condition the motor also surges and stops and surges and stops violently rocking the car as you drive along. This can be 30 or 60Kmh does not matter. 

There are a myriad of parameters and unless the manual said something in plain english describing WHAT the parameter does I've left it alone. 

Thank you to those who took the time to answer me.... 

Regards
Charles


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

dragonsgate said:


> Type of car, year, motor, controller, voltage, etc.
> I have an 84 Fiat x1/9 that would slightly surge at slower and no load speeds.
> The amps didn't move that I can remember as you mentioned.
> I rebuilt the trans and set the back lash which solved a lot of the problem so maybe you could look there.
> You might also check the throttle pot for wear.


Hi Dragonsgate.

And THANK YOU for taking the time to question and answer me.

I will give as much detail I am able to. 

It is a 1983 fiat uno, I believe in USA referred to as a 146, little remains of the original drive train bar the wheels and side shafts, it was converted in 2006 by a german gentleman here in Namibia. 

There is a small differential between motor and side shafts (cv jointed) there is not much info on the name plate the motor is from german origin but is 86A continuous, 100V and 200 Hz is it's frequency. 

The inverter is the mes dea tim400 280A capable, voltage between 80 and 400V. 


The problem I am having is maybe an easy fix or not I do not know as I am in over my head, when I come to a complete stop I can sometimes feel a slight rocking of the motor, if I pull up the handbrake and take my foot off of the brake pedal it stops, or if I switch from drive to reverse and back. 

The other problem is when driving and I get to a coasting speed where there is a reduced or almost NO LOAD condition the motor also surges and stops and surges and stops violently rocking the car as you drive along. This can be 30 or 60Kmh does not matter. 

There are a myriad of parameters and unless the manual said something in plain english describing WHAT the parameter does I've left it alone. 



dragonsgate said:


> and set the back lash


Where do I find that and what is it listed as in the programming of an inverter.

I am new to this and I do not remember such a parameter, here I have stuff like, "P1" Described as: Corrective factor for 14bit analogue reference 1 (AN_INP_1) (%) ........
I am lost for words.

But according to the manual, this one of the things it explains, and so I was able to understand it, "use this to set the upper limit of the throttle pot".....
 This I can understand.......

I did not find any such parameter as backlash so if you could be so kind as to tell me what it is I need to look for in the "programming" language it would help me, This does sound like it could be it, but like I said I am in over my head .

Again... Thank you Thank you and Thank you. For getting back to me!!!

Regards
Charles


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

Hi Dragonsgate.

Thank you for getting back to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
This will be the fourth time I try to edit and save this post....


It is a 1983 fiat uno, I believe in USA referred to as a 146, little remains of the original drive train bar the wheels and side shafts, it was converted in 2006 by a german gentleman here in Namibia. 

There is a small differential between motor and side shafts (cv jointed) there is not much info on the name plate the motor is from german origin but is 86A continuous, 100V and 200 Hz is it's frequency. 

The inverter is the mes dea tim400 280A capable, voltage between 80 and 400V. 


The problem I am having is maybe an easy fix or not I do not know as I am in over my head, when I come to a complete stop I can sometimes feel a slight rocking of the motor, if I pull up the handbrake and take my foot off of the brake pedal it stops, or if I switch from drive to reverse and back. 

The other problem is when driving and I get to a coasting speed where there is a reduced or almost NO LOAD condition the motor also surges and stops and surges and stops violently rocking the car as you drive along. This can be 30 or 60Kmh does not matter. 

There are a myriad of parameters and unless the manual said something in plain english describing WHAT the parameter does I've left it alone. 



dragonsgate said:


> set the back lash which solved a lot of the problem


In the programing of the inverter I am faced with this:

"P1" Describe in the line next to it as: Corrective factor for 14bit analogue reference 1 (AN_INP_1) (%) WHAT?

This is one of the few things described in the manual as follows

Use this to set the maximum allowable output for the throttle potentiometer.... This I can understand......

So my next question would be where do I find that "backlash" as there is no such description in the manual or programming.

All I had to do, was enter certain motor parameters and the controller did the rest. It did an auto tune from these parameters:

Motor poles. (4)
Motor voltage. (100V)
Motor current Nom. (86)
Absolute number of encoders. (2)
Pulses per revolution. (25)




dragonsgate said:


> You might also check the throttle pot for wear.


I forgot to answer this, sorry.

I did replace it a month back, not the cheapest thing to source out here.

The old one tested fine on the multimeter.

In the software you can view the voltage curve of the pot which also looked clean no jaggedness on the curve, I would have suspected to see some thing wrong over there if it were. Not sure could be blowing smoke up my own backside though....

Thanks for your feedback

Regards
Charles


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Back lash is wear between gears. You have to pull the trans apart and adjust preload and gear clearances.



If I understand right you are saying there is movement when the car is at a stop?
The motor is rocking as if still getting power?

This is not back lash.

I am not really qualified to diagnose and even someone who is will have a hard time doing it through these posts. 

You may have to tear everything apart and inspect each part to find where the problem is.

Sounds like there is an unwanted electrical feed through the potentiometer.

That about exhausts my limited knowledge.


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

dragonsgate said:


> Back lash is wear between gears. You have to pull the trans apart and adjust preload and gear clearances.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Dragongate

Yip, that is what is happening, if I look at the software in monitor mode when the motor does that with my foot on the brake, the revs go up to 50 then down to -50. I don't get it, BUT if I switch the regen option off, then it stops altogether. 

Regards
Charles


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Charles Gibbs said:


> Hi Dragongate
> 
> BUT if I switch the regen option off, then it stops altogether.
> 
> ...


That narrows it down a bit.
My lack of knowledge revolves around series wound DC motors but will venture to guess you are feeding current to the controller via the brake switch.


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

HI Dragonsgate.

It does not make sense though as that input is grounded to be able to work. also, its isolated from the motor via the chip and so on. 

That's why I need help.....

It all does not make sense....

Thanks again though.

Regards
Charles


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

> but I do not like being ignored, that is just wrong. Does not matter how you look at it.


Can you see how making declarative statements about matters of opinion, as if the answers is exclusively one thing, would lead people to not wanting to help you?

Further, it's no one's "job" to respond to you. The forum isn't a single person who chose to ignore you.

You seem to think that you're entitled to help from everyone, and that they must earn your respect first. I think when you're asking for someone else's help, you need to go out of your way to make it as easy for people to help you as possible, or, at least be receptive to that. And if you fail, then you failed, try harder.

99.9999% of users don't respond to 99.9999% of posts. They're not "ignoring" them, they just have nothing to say.

You've interpreted this personally, as "just plain wrong" and then added that you consider this an undebateable fact, "does not matter how you look at it".

Well, I disagree that it's "just plain wrong" but, you're pre-emptively told me my opinion can't be correct, so, *shrugs*.

I suspect you have found this type of situation almost following you about, everywhere you go? If it smells like shit everywhere you go, check your shoes.


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> I suspect you have found this type of situation almost following you about, everywhere you go? If it smells like shit everywhere you go, check your shoes.


Nope!

This is the first place, in all the other I was at least said hello to. 

It's uncivilised people like yourself that make places 
like this totally inaccessible for others. 

I'm in a bind, and there is no constructive comment from you. 

I am always civil toward people, but you are one of those that 
just has to get on the band wagon and carry on the stone throwing...... 

So throw your stones, you'll be where I am one day, and someone will come along and treat you, as you are treating me......

enjoy it.....

goodbye.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Matt Matt Matt 

Be more gentle with these people - some of them are awful thin skinned


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

Duncan said:


> Matt Matt Matt
> 
> Be more gentle with these people - some of them are awful thin skinned


Thank you Duncan, 

My skin is thick enough, I just don't need comments like those. 
I can very easily say sorry when I am wrong, or have done something wrong
and as I have.

Could you tell me please, as I can't find it anywhere.

It could be that I'm just stupid!

How can I delete my profile?

Thank you in advance.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Charles Gibbs said:


> I can very easily say sorry when I am wrong, or have done something wrong
> and as I have.
> 
> Could you tell me please, as I can't find it anywhere.


Starting off a request for help with a complaint about the members of the forum would be the basic one. I thought that I had mentioned that, but I now realized that it was only implied by my comment.

If you wanted people to "say hi", a post in the New Member Introductions section would have got you that. You are still welcome to do that.



Charles Gibbs said:


> It could be that I'm just stupid!


Not likely. My guess is that you just have unrealistic expectations.



Charles Gibbs said:


> How can I delete my profile?


Don't bother; most people who register in most forums either never participate, or quit, and they normally just leave their profiles in place. That's why it seems like many thousand people ignored you in this forum, while in fact most of those people never saw your posts because they don't actually read the forum.

From the live stats at the bottom of the forum page:


> Members: 73,995, Active Members: 955


... and many "active" members only check in occasionally. Even then, most would only read selected posts (relevant to them) in selected sections of the forum. It is likely that only a handful of people ever read your first posts, and none of them had any idea how to help since they didn't know anything about your controller.

I don't know why you would quit now, since you are getting assistance. It's not what you ideally want, but then my latest lottery ticket didn't have the right numbers... I guess we don't always get what we want.


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

Sorry Brian, again I appolagize, one person has tried to help. The others have done nothing but critisize. Which I can take. 

Yes. I now see what you mean that my post may have been skipped over, by the amount of active/ inactive users.

I am sorry, but I do not want any part of a forum where people have to stoop down to the level of profanity thrown at me by Mat. 

I have never EVER told anyone that their shoes smell like "shit" not my style, if I did not agree with them, I have always respected other peoples views when expressed decently. 

But please ban me then, I do not want any help from people who have to swear at others like that to say they don't agree with me, I was fine with all he said up until that part. I will not be belittled like that. I know I am brash and straight forward, but saying that to me. I'll have none of it. 

Thank you for trying to help. But I want my profile GONE, I want NO further emails from this forum or it's users. 

I do not want my name here at all. 

Kind regards
Charles


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Charles Gibbs said:


> ... I want my profile GONE, I want NO further emails from this forum or it's users.


Emails from the forum are just notifications - you can turn that off in your User Control Panel. You can change just about anything there (including the displayed profile information), except your username.

If you want someone to do extra work for you (most people don't expect this), you'll have to ask a moderator or administrator. That's not me.


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## Charles Gibbs (Jun 6, 2019)

Noted.

Thank you.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Charles has asked me to delete his details

I may get around to it eventually - but I see no reason to do any extra work for somebody like that


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Duncan said:


> Charles has asked me to delete his details
> 
> I may get around to it eventually - but I see no reason to do any extra work for somebody like that


I think you should leave it up as it shows how fast things can go south when everyone gets the panties in a bunch.


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## carguy911 (Oct 30, 2014)

always a possibility it could be the controller. Lets looks at something a little cheaper and easier. I would look at your throttle control. If it is a curtis pb6 or something similar, they are a potentiometer and can get dirty or no contact. I would try spraying a contact cleaner in it, move it around a little, with the ignition off of course. Now see if it does anything different. If you see any change....get a new one. Good luck


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## sadcar (Mar 18, 2013)

check if the controller is set for motor with automatic gearbox, then yes the controller keeps the motor slightly powered all the time to keep up the oil pressure for fast gear switching


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The signal to noise ratio in this thread is horrible. You can get a 1 year subscription to Water Off A Duck's Back at Discount Mags for $3.99.

My bet is you didn't ground the throttle pot AT the controller.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Charles Gibbs said:


> where people have to stoop down to the level of profanity thrown at me by Mat.


"stoop to levels of profanity"? By using a common phrase that refers to allegorical bad smell?



> I have never EVER told anyone that their shoes smell like "shit" not my style, if I did not agree with them,


Ahh yes, his shoes literally smell like shit, that was my claim.



> I have always respected other peoples views when expressed decently.


Ha. He *pre-emptively* disrespected people's views by declaring it impossible and invalid to disagree with him. "I do not like being ignored, that is just wrong. Does not matter how you look at it."



> I do not want any help from people who have to swear at others like that to say they don't agree with me, [...]I will not be belittled like that.


Oh, how tragic. Let me rephrase so his virgin toddler ears will remain untarnished: "If it smells like doo-doo everywhere you walk, ask mommy to change your diaper."

What a crybaby. Throwing a tantrum because "someone used profanity."

It's not like I called him a piece of shit. How thick can someone be to think an allegory of "If problems follow you, pause and reflect if you might be the cause" is swearing *at* them?



> I want my profile GONE


Having been an admin on many forums over the last 20 years, I'd wager money that this is the typical type of person that causes these cry-victim shitstorms everywhere and then desperately covers their tracks every time it doesn't make people snap-to and obediently sympathize with them. Then claim each incident is "the first time" to cry sympathy about how this particular community is uniquely cruel. Seen it lots, have no tolerance for it once I recognize it as a tactic.

You can be bottomless helpful to them, walk on eggshells around their sensitivities, and it just fuels it more. The next time it's "no one answered me 4 hours!", the next "No one answered me in 1 hour!". You train your own demons.


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> "stoop to levels of profanity"? By using a common phrase that refers to allegorical bad smell?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just move on. It doesnt help anyone to slam the guy, and he already stormed off.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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