# [EVDL] Zilla Cooling



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla 
controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler 
or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE 
radiator. It seams like a simple solution since it is existing. Has 
anyone gone this route, or does anyone see any problems with this 
approach?



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> > I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> > controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> > or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I thought about it (I have an AC setup and in addition to liquid cooling the
inverter/controller I may be liquid cooling my motor as well, so a big
radiator would be okay, though probably not completely necessary to be quite
as large as the original radiator). However, in my case, the space didn't
work out well to keep the original radiator -- a battery box needed to go
there... so I am going with the transmission cooler instead.

Z



> Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> > controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>Other than massive overkill?
I know a guy who used a old 2L coke bottle as the radiator for his zilla 1k.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Monday, 1 June 2009 11:22 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Cooling



> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> > I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> > controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> > or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How bout those cute little Heater cores?Like Rabbit ones? Or just 
circulate the water though several feet of flexable copper tubing flowed 
around the "Engine Room?" Still an air cooled fan, pun intended.

Seeya

Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Cooling




> > Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >> I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> >> controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> >> or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah... complete overkill  The OEM radiator never even got that hot with
the original ICE, even when crawling slowly up steep hills in 1st gear with
a load of firewood.



> John G. Lussmyer <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> > > I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> > I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> > controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> > or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Roger,

I use a small transmission cooler that is install in front of the A/C 
radiator. I remove the ICE radiator that is in front of the A/C radiator. 
If you are running a air conditional system, than the ICE radiator that is 
front of the A/C radiator will increase in heat that is radiating from the 
A/C unit.

I install a all copper small A/C radiator that has 3/8 inch threaded 
fittings as low as I can get it. I install a brass tee on the lower outlet 
of this radiator, so I can install a drain valve for draining the coolant as 
needed. Then a 3/8 inch hose ran straight up to the inlet fitting of the 
Zilla.

I ran a 3/8 inch hose from the outlet of the Zilla to a holding tank that 
happen to have a 3/8 inch inlet stud on top of a tank, that is normally use 
as a expansion that is mounted up high for ICE that has there radiator 
mounted lower than the engine. I use a new Pontiac one that I got from the 
dealer for $26.00. The fill neck is design for a standard radiator pressure 
cap. I install the lowest cap there was.

You want to have this tank and fluid level higher than the Zilla. This tank 
also has a 3/4 inch outlet at the bottom which a Maxi-Jet 1200 Multi-Use 
Submersible Pump also has a 3/4 inlet stub. I just couple this pump with a 
short piece of 3/4 hose. Never had to clamp it, because it fits very tight.

This pump is by www.marineland.com which I purchase from a local place that 
sells aquarium systems. Now this pump is 120 vac which is no problem. I 
just use a very small DC-AC inverter (12V-120V) 100 watt that I got from 
www.jcwhitney.com

This pump has a 3/8 inch outlet where I ran a hose to another tee which I 
install a standard coolant sensor for a temperature gage. Then from this 
tee, I ran a 3/8 hose to the top inlet of the A/C radiator.

You want this coolant to be as cool as possible. Using the standard ICE 
radiator with a A/C radiator, will increase the heat. The cost of adapting 
fittings to a standard radiator may be more than the cost of a small A/C 
radiator.

If you do not use a A/C system, then you could retain the radiator for the 
Zilla cooling which may have attachments for the electric fan, or for 
installing a electric fan.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Cooling


> I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE
> radiator. It seams like a simple solution since it is existing. Has
> anyone gone this route, or does anyone see any problems with this
> approach?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland,

The Audi has the radiator behind the A/C condensor as viewed standing 
in front of the car. There is about 1" of space between them when 
mounted on their OEM pads. We use A/C here between May and Sept. 
Normally, when the car is moving the air will flow through the 
condensor and then through the radiator, so some of the heat lost by 
the condensor may raise the temperature of the radiator by a few 
degrees.

The Zilla maintains full output at up to 55C (131F) So, unless the 
air going through the condensor is above 130F, the Zilla will be 
fine. Of course, the lower the better.

I guess the best way to handle this is to go ahead an build it and 
then monitor coolant temperature while running the A/C. If it does 
end up being a problem, I'll have to reconfigure things.

Roger



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > Hello Roger,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The stock radiator is HUGE, If you filled it with water it would just be
dead weight.
(But some small cars are pretty small and are made light, maybe 1/2
filling with water would work well)
I run a Zilla 1K on a 4050lb vehicle using AGM batteries. I have a
computer fan on one of those computer mini radiators.
I have had some overheats when the hose got kinked or I sucked air
bubbles in the line(shallow tank).
It gets to be 115 here.
I made myself a 5" cube tank to solve the sucking air problem and just
have to remember to put the fan in high when july rolls around.

http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00222.jpg

After a few really poor pumps I got this one, it is awsome and very quiet.

http://www.evsource.com/tls_cooling.php


> I know there are kits available for providing cooling for a Zilla
> controller. I know you can also make one with a transmission cooler
> or similar. Just wondering if anyone has used the original ICE
> radiator. It seams like a simple solution since it is existing. Has
> anyone gone this route, or does anyone see any problems with this
> approach?
>
>

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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was thinking of using a 12V marine bilge pump. I may mount my DC/DC 
on water cooled plate as well.

The radiator weighs 11 lbs empty. I calculate filled with coolant it 
should weigh less than 25 lbs. That's not a huge amount of dead weight.



> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > The stock radiator is HUGE, If you filled it with water it would
> > just be
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

OK. I realize its overkill on a thermodynamic perspective. The Audi 
radiator is very light, and it fits neatly in the vehicle. It also 
has special mounting pads on it to hold the air conditioner condensor, 
so without it I would have to fabricate some intricate brackets. I 
plan on blocking the cooling fan hole so water spray stays out of the 
motor area, so this radiator would get much less air flow than normal.




> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> 
> > Yeah... complete overkill  The OEM radiator never even got that
> > hot with
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

John L wrote

> I'm using the original Transmission cooling radiator in mine.

That's exactly what I am going to do. How did you clean it out, just flush 
it with something that removes oil, like gas?
What pump are you using?

Rush
Tucson AZ


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

For the Datsun, I simply bought a new tranny cooler - not very expensive, as 
I recall; and none of the contamination issues. I had a Kodiak water-cooled 
controller, but didn't need to use the cooling much except on hot days.


Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rush" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Cooling


> John L wrote
>
>> I'm using the original Transmission cooling radiator in mine.
>
> That's exactly what I am going to do. How did you clean it out, just flush
> it with something that removes oil, like gas?
> What pump are you using?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush wrote:
> >> I'm using the original Transmission cooling radiator in mine.
> >
> > That's exactly what I am going to do. How did you clean it out, just flush
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If it was me, I would use a warm detergent mixture instead of gas. Set 
up a record loop with a pump and run it for a while. Then just run 
fresh warm water through it single pass to remove any detergent 
residual.

Sent from my iPhone



> "Rush" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > John L wrote
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush wrote:
> > John L wrote
> >
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush wrote:
> >> I'm using the original Transmission cooling radiator in mine.
> >
> > That's exactly what I am going to do. How did you clean it out, just flush
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee Replied:
>> You know, oil is fine as a coolant as well. It eliminates the need 
>> for antifreeze. It carries less heat per gallon, but you can 
>> compensate by moving more gallons per minute.



> [email protected] wrote:
> > Exactly, and even without a tranny cooler, the tranny is a big ol'
> > aluminum heat sink, complete with lots of fins. I wanted to use
> > tranny oil to cool my zilla, but didn't find an economical pump that
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Lee Replied:
> >>> You know, oil is fine as a coolant as well. It eliminates the need
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You can get a external 12 volt oil pump for a transmission or differential 
from jegs.com. I got one for my automatic transmission. It puts out 50 psi 
and has plenty of flow. I am only using a 1 gallon per minute AC pump that 
runs off my inverter for cooling the Zilla which is recommended by Otmar 
which is listed in the manual.

The recommended maximum psi for the Zilla is 15 psi, so you will have to 
control this pressure with a bypass circuit. In my pump set up, I still 
needed a inline oil filter, a check value so you do not get back pressure 
and a high pressure shut off switch.

With this pump, I use one of Jegs extruded aluminum oil coolers that is 
install right next to the transmission.

I also attach a temperature sensor on the Zilla heat sink. As per Otmar 
instructions, you can attach a sensor between the inlet and outlet studs on 
the heat sink. Do not drill into the heat sink to attach a heat sensor. I 
use a adjacent bolt and spring clamp to hold the sensor against this area.

The temperature indicator and sensor is a standard Stewart Warner unit where 
the sensor is bolted to the surface of a engine. I also have a under hood 
temperature sensor. The maximum under hood temperature I have read while 
the EV is park, was about 140 F while the ambient temperature was 105 F.

At this temperature while the EV was moving, the Zilla coolent temperature 
measure with another Stewart Warner coolant indicator was 88 degrees coming 
from the radiator and was 98 degrees at the heat sink. Motor temperature was 
the same as the ambient air temperature.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Cooling


>
>


> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > > Lee Replied:
> > >>> You know, oil is fine as a coolant as well. It eliminates the need
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sounds like genius to me.

One note, I used to have a Chevy Lumina APV. The PS Fluid went from
the pump to the rack then was routed along the bottom of the steering
rack through an aluminum tube back to the pump. The tube corroded. To
replace it I needed to order part nomenclature "Power Steering
Cooler". Even adding an oil cooler might still be overkill for you,
but I'd do it anyway.

Stay Charged!
Hump

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]> w=
rote:
>

>
> Thats interesting, and gave me a thought. My conversion will have a
> power steering pump. What if I added an oil cooler and used the PS
> pump and fluid to cool the Zilla? I'm thinking basically from the
> pump to the PS rack, back through an oil cooler on the low pressure
> side, then through the Zilla and then back to the reservoir. I don't
> know what the normal flow rate is for a PS pump. Do you think its
> sufficient?
>
>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>


> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >> Lee Replied:
> >>>> You know, oil is fine as a coolant as well. It eliminates the need
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I checked the ratings on a bunch of different PS pumps and they are in 
the range of 2.68 to 9 GPM, so it looks like it should be sufficient 
or overkill as far as the flow. I'll just have to install a bypass 
valve to adjust the flow rate. What I like most about this idea is 
that it eliminates a separate cooling pump. The Audi has an aluminum 
loop as well that gets mounted in front of the radiator for cooling 
the PS fluid... same as your old Lumina.



> Tim Humphrey wrote:
> 
> > Sounds like genius to me.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >But it might be worth investigating for a front wheel drive vehicle.
> 
> In a FWD car, would it be possible to use the transaxle? =
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Personally, i would never do this to my zilla.
I own a grand am with a 4t60E and it shares the tranny fluid with the
differential.
What I didn't realize is that this means you have to replace the tranny
fluid every 15-30K miles or by 80k the transmission is not even rebuildable.

Lots of metal particulants especially if something goes wrong.
On longer drives, if we get to that, i wonder if the differential will
warm up the zilla and run it a little warmer than a seperate radiator
and pump.
The oil used in differentials also have special additives in it to help
with wear, it is usually high sulfur and this soaks into the metal. I
don't know if that will effect the zilla chromed copper heatsink or not.

On the PS side, the Grand Am is a good example of a FWD. The pressure is
700psi max on the high side, but it has a solenoid that bypasses when it
detects you don't need it. very small resivour, all hard lines, no
obvious low pressure return. Fluid is warm.
The older Power-Steering like on the family's old chevy pickup, I can
tell you that the resiviour was a lot bigger, the pressure was
maintained by a forcing it thru a pressure relief value and the oil ran
very hot!



> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >> >But it might be worth investigating for a front wheel drive vehicle.
> >>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The "controller cuts out" thread reminded me of this topic...

>>>You know, oil is fine as a coolant as well. It eliminates the need for
>>>antifreeze. It carries less heat per gallon, but you can compensate
>>>by moving more gallons per minute.

Before I saw the above statement, I had
already bought a water pump from one of our great
suppliers of parts for EVs (phrase that so it doesn't
sound like a plug for one or another 

Is there a way to know if I can run oil through it?
If so, what kind? I imagine it should be thin so
it flows like money, I mean water.

10W30 (I have some left over ?
peanut oil?

Thanks
Seth
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> 
> > The "controller cuts out" thread reminded me of this topic...
> >
> ...


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