# LiFePO from China



## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

Alrighty! I have bought and paid for BestGo prismatic cells back in mid March. I was sold on cost and manufacturing methods as well as better than average specs. After a series of unfortunate events, I still have not received my February battery order. Now, the story is that none of the major shipping/freight companies are shipping class2/3 hazmat labeled packages from Hong Kong. I was told there was a fire in a warehouse and all batteries are returned to sender. My Google searches show a fire in March. So I'm curious if anyone is having the same issue from another supplier. Has anyone received batteries from China in the last Month or am I just the latest scam victim?

I paid with the wife's credit card, so I'm not completely screwed. It just seems like I have been deceived and this has drug on way longer than normal time line. Misery loves company, but I'm really after trying to figure out if my expectation is off dealing with a company in China.

Thanks for the replies.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Not direct from China for me, but several of us have received cells from calibpower in CA that were manufactured in China in April. There were supply delays with our orders but this is the first I've heard of a fire.

I know others have received through other routes.


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

I should also mention that I ordered 160Ah cells. It appears that there is some additional regulation proposed on large format lithium cells. I read a DOT document on DHL's website about the US requiring additional labeling and special handling. The document was from November of last year.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

If you have any recoarse thru the card company, use it. Get it started, it has gone on long enough.

My cells took a month longer than expected because some unexpected problems at the China-end customs warehouse. My supplier was not very communicative. They would only answer emails if I was asking for a refund.

I eventually got my shipment, but there are no reliable Chinese sources for anything (that I personally know of). The one deal that went through took 2 weeks longer than it would have even if done in Europe.

Their business ethics are much different than ours. Here, We expect communication. We expect to be notified if things do not go to plan. We expect to be "in the loop". 

They seem to be very helpful and friendly when promoting their product, but after the funds change hands, the attitude is "Our priority is, We got paid, "
Unless you find them and place your foot on their neck, they will forget you.

I have dealt with 4 different companies and 3 different items from China.
That is my experience. They have a LOT of respect to earn back.

Miz


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

FWIW my experience with Kelly Controllers was good. I was nervous about buying cells direct so I went through Manzanita Micro and was happy.


mizlplix said:


> If you have any recoarse thru the card company, use it. Get it started, it has gone on long enough.
> 
> My cells took a month longer than expected because some unexpected problems at the China-end customs warehouse. My supplier was not very communicative. They would only answer emails if I was asking for a refund.
> 
> ...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I've bought lithium cells from China on multiple occasions. . . both large and small format. I have never had a problem. I did a lot of research before the first time buying and all the bad stories I could find were from domestic companies screwing people, not Chinese. Just my 2 cents.....


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

I really didn't buy them direct from China. I paid a domestic company that drop ships from China. They passed the buck through transparency, but truly it appears they have no skin in the game. I think they work a little like a coop in that they leverage volume prices with very little profit. I'm sure they get something and I did buy other stuff. It is clear though that the contacts in China have been deceitful at best.
It truly helps to get additional perspective. I was being lead to believe that my experience was a first and very unique. It appears my motor will go out of warranty before I get my batteries connected. The HPEV guys ship very fast.
Thanks all.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I would do a chargeback on that credit card if the company will not refund your money as they should or deliver your cells. Your not the first by any means to get screwed by an AMERICAN company. Delay too long and you will screw yourself. Did you buy directly from Bestgo Power or another company? Gotta be real careful when dealing with middle man companies. The snag your money and run. Then do it all over again and by the time you tell your self I got screwed it is way too late. Don't accept excuses. They are only detractors. Get your money back and shop somewhere else. Like CALB in LA. They are reliable and honest. 

Pete


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

DIYguy said:


> I've bought lithium cells from China on multiple occasions. . . both large and small format. I have never had a problem. I did a lot of research before the first time buying and all the bad stories I could find were from domestic companies screwing people, not Chinese. Just my 2 cents.....


I also bought some Headways direct from China and they arrived very quickly via DHL. Interestingly, they were marked "wheelchair parts".


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Start the card cancelation immediately. My wife and I have a small cottage industry and we have ordered supplies that we can’t get anywhere else directly from China. The orders ranged from $50 to $200. Out of about 20 orders to Chinese companies we have had trouble with four. I guess that is not bad but enough to make me leery of sending 5 to $10 K directly to a place I can’t drive too in order to kick some ass and get my money back. I am hoping to up grade my car starting next year and lithium batteries are on the want list. As much as I loath the idea of buying Chinese I will do it through a proven company in the US even if it costs more. There should be some kind of escrow that holds the money until the batteries are delivered and approved. We have to be careful even with US companies. For example I was in an auto parts store and saw a two ton floor jack on sale. I had been wanting another jack and this one had a big oval sticker about four inches high and five inches long with big red letters of U.S.A. I like to buy American when I can so I bought it. A few days later I needed to use it and after ward was wiping it down when I noticed the one eighth high lettering above the three inch high red U.S.A. In my exuberance to buy American I assumed the words were “made in” when in actuality it said “inspected in”. At the bottom below the big U.S.A. in even smaller letters it said “made in China”. China is always ripping us off with patten infringements and knock offs so why can’t we knock off some good lithium batteries here in the states? Any way I hope you get out of this ok. The HPEV guys seem willing to work with us DIY’ers maybe you could call them and explain the situation in hopes of getting a warranty extension. THIS JUST IN! I was just now reading some of the replies on this thread to my wife and she said that one of the companies we had trouble with was a Chinese company working through an address here in the States. She ordered through the company and they sent the order to China where it was immediately used as wiping paper and forgotten.


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the replies and support. Asking for a refund started three months ago, but it only prompted an empty promise to expedite my delivery. I talked to the credit card company today. They are going to file the dispute, but really the normal time limit is 60 days after the end of your billing cycle. I have additional challenges because the charges don't match my invoices. The totals match, but the bill was run in smaller chunks to get to the total on the invoice with multiple quantities and line items (the dates are off too). I should have seen the signs. Last word from BestGo was that the order has shipped, but for some reason there is no tracking available (same answer as before). Maybe this time will be different.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Yah, EV******** advertises here. I ordered some Headways. After a week, I emailed ??? Three days later I got a DHL tracking number. It took 3 more days to show the stuff was in Hong Kong. It is still sitting there.

I guess Hong Kong is the jumping off point to America.

When my IPAD was ordered, 2 days later I got a track number, 2 days it was in Hong Kong, 2 days later it was in Alaska. Then Seattle and finally Phoenix and Mesa.

Just like clockwork.

After my Headways leave Honk Kong, they are due to go to Innsbruk, Austria....WTF???? Then who knows where after that.

I once ordered a package from Scotland, It had a Bangalore stamp on it....

GO figure.

My guess is it all depends on the shipper they use and how well they bribe Chinese customs in Hong Kong.

My .02 worth, Miz


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## 3xe-electric-cars (Jun 7, 2012)

My experience with China is overall very good - maybe because we cooperate only with big/checked partners.
That is true that sometimes our orders travel all over the world to get from there, but finally it gets to destination.

Typically we don't use biggest logistic companies (DHL, etc), because their procedures can ground your devices for a looong time. If they are not sure if they can... they sit and do nothing until you prove they can...


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

Today, I have an email that my batteries were sent in the belly of a passenger plane and are waiting for me at the air port. I didn't know you could send hazardous materials on a passenger plane. I seriously doubt they are labled properly and the copy of the air bill I have isn't signed. Looks like, no matter what you buy or who you buy it from, each DIY EV has a story. Mine sure has a whopper and it is't even finished.


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

I ordered some Headways from bmsbattery.com and they came via DHL within 5 days. They were labeled, "Wheelchair parts". LOL


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## 3xe-electric-cars (Jun 7, 2012)

@MemphisPapa: So there is a light in the tunnel... and I hope it is not a train 

@Ricklearned: I've seen different descriptions, but your one is great !  Some time ago we got package of "car parts", "electronic parts", "energy storage", ... etc.


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

So today the 32 boxes of "power supply / without battery" are at the Airport. They came on a commercial passenger flight with an airway bill clearly declared as non-hazmat. I'm waiting to hear from a customs check. I'm concerned that if the custom declaration doesn't show batteries, I could be implicated in an illegal import. If it does say batteries, they could be subject to fines or confiscated. What a crooked company. I found out that the same set of batteries were denied export in HK due to the presentation of a "fake" MSDS. Does anyone know anybody with BestGo batteries?


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## 3xe-electric-cars (Jun 7, 2012)

I don't think it could bring you any problems.

It is not your fault that they marked it in custom delcarations as something different. It is more related to responsibility on the other side of ocean. They paid for shipping of non dangerous goods.

In US you should deliver copy of commercial invoice from seller and possibly some payment confirmation (credit card or bank transfer confirmation). It supposed to be enough to calculate customs and duties.
This is how it works in Europe.

If I missed something - just let me know.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

But what happens when you order cells, they come from China and they are delivered at less than 2.5 volts/cell? 

What if the lithium cell charger fails to sense them and will not charge them?
(even though it works on your other cells you already own)

What do you do if the supplier tells you that "we only sell good cells, all cells were checked and were 3.3 Volts before delivery"?

An amicable resolution seems out of the picture at this point. 

Miz


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

Mizlplix,
My greatest fear now is that the cells shipped are junk, always were junk, and the whole thing was intended to hang in customs so I would never see what was sent. My trust in BestGo is long gone and the best I hope for is a refund. Nothing has been provided to show any quality measurement and I have repeated examples of questionable ethical practices. I even have an email from BestGo explaining that they lied on the shipping labels to avoid special handling and customs trouble. I'm supposed to hear if the shipment that came on a commercial airliner clears customs tomorrow. I'll be sure to provide an update.
Thanks.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I think what we call unethical practices, they call good business.(for them)

I am never going to trust a Chinese deal again. After 4 from 4 different companies and 4 poor results for me.

I might buy Chinese made goods, BUT they will come from an American company, who I can at least understand because translating software is not required.

AND they have the goods in hand, inside the USA.


Miz


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## MemphisPapa (Feb 16, 2012)

I finally had a good day. My batteries cleared customs and I was able to pick them up today. I tested all the batteries. Most of them are 3.0V or a little better (the best was 3.11V). There are nine of them that are less than 2.9V and four of them at 2.77V to 2.78V. I suppose they will balance when i charge them with my BMS the first time? None of the boxes were marked as containing batteries. The customs declaration only showed half the value I paid. The MSDS that was suspect in HK showed that the capacity was only 900mAH. Looks like I'll have something to do this weekend.
Thanks everyone for the support.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

mizlplix said:


> I think what we call unethical practices, they call good business.(for them)
> 
> I am never going to trust a Chinese deal again. After 4 from 4 different companies and 4 poor results for me.
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed it....did u get screwed out of batteries??


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## alvin (Jul 26, 2008)

Hi Doug 

Glad to hear the good news. I know that was stressful on you.

Mine are still in the boxes. I am prepping the car for paint.


Alvin


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow! I am really tempted to just buy lead acids here in the states. Maybe when they go bad in 2- 3 years there will be a better and more consistent supply as well as getting their other sh!t together. Sorry you had to go thru all that. Appreciate the info.

Is there anywhere I can see the 100 ah lithium and purchase them for a good price??? Me no speaky Chineez yet, although that could change.... wasn't O'bama born in Hong Kong? Hehe!!!


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

alvin said:


> Hi Doug
> 
> Glad to hear the good news. I know that was stressful on you.
> 
> ...


You are a better man than I am, Gungha Din. 
I couldn't stand seeing them just sitting there in boxes. So I am driving my car around town in primer grey. Who says primer isn't paint. LOL


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Most of the folks that got screwed purchased from American companies and not the Chinese companies. Go figure. There are plenty of Cells in the US that you can actually go buy and pick up yourself. If you go yourself you guarantee you will get them. Actually most folks who are selling them are actually selling them and delivering them. That is good news. There will be plenty of the CALB Grey Cells to be had too. 

From the reports coming in they are providing pretty good performance power as well as capacity. All good. 

You will soon want lithium after a bit of time on the lead sled. I give lead 2 years reasonable use for the life. Giving much more is not really an option. They start to loose performance from day one. The discharge curve sucks and your distance sucks even more. They do work. I built my first with lead. UGG. 

Pete


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Most of the folks that got screwed purchased from American companies and not the Chinese companies. Go figure. There are plenty of Cells in the US that you can actually go buy and pick up yourself. If you go yourself you guarantee you will get them. Actually most folks who are selling them are actually selling them and delivering them. That is good news. There will be plenty of the CALB Grey Cells to be had too.
> 
> From the reports coming in they are providing pretty good performance power as well as capacity. All good.
> 
> ...


Any advice on where to go? I'm on the east coast, near Tenessee. I don't mind a road trip, as long as the merchandise is there.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Check with Rickard in MO. He has the Grey CALB's for sale. That is the only place close to you that I know about or here on the west coast at the US warehouse in LA.


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## Tedktis (Jan 20, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Check with Rickard in MO. He has the Grey CALB's for sale. That is the only place close to you that I know about or here on the west coast at the US warehouse in LA.


Jack Rickard? He is 11 hrs away and expensive. I think he only sells 100 ah, which I want, but not at that price. I could live with 40 ah at a fair price. They have them in UT I believe. I guess I should start carrying them! How does one become a distributor?


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Rickard has a higher markup on pretty much everything he sells compared to other distributors that have been reputable such as CALIB. Makes sense for him since some people feel they can't trust anyone else, it depends on whether or not you think it's worth it. Some of his products are exclusive to him, which drives me away because if Rickard decides to not sell or support something in the future we don't have an alternative which is important to me although I only know of one Kostov distributor in the US but there's no comparable DC series interpoled motor to what I want so my choice is made there but I don't expect to easily burn out a motor on a car that's 1900lbs pre-conversion. Of course there are bad apples and we all need to be careful and do our own due diligence.
You'd need to contact CALB to become a distributor, en.calb.cn is their official site. It helps if you are near a port and don't need to forward the freight but customs is a PITA so it only makes sense if you can do a high volume operation.
The US site in Pamona, CA of www.calibpower.com apparently sells them but you need to contact them, someone posted here saying that Keegan can get them in. Farther away from NC for sure.
I'm curious about who in UT is distributing them? I haven't heard of that distributor yet.


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