# Rock crawler on 42s



## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Here is what I'm working with.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Everything except the floodies is fine. Go find salvage battery system of your choice about 300 -600 volts, maybe a whole wrecked car.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Could I still use the curtis controller andzegna ng3 charger with a OEM lithium pack? I'm just getting started with this conversion. Started pulling the ice stuff out and pick up the warp kit tonight at yrc.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Pay you a favor and put a 1000A controller in your system to have access to over 250 lbs-ft of torque.
The difference from 500A will be huge.

About battery, a rework* Chevy Volt battery can be a really good choice for you.
*you can rework those 360V battery to obtain 45V or 90V or 120V or 180V nominal battery.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Motor came in. Guessing it got dropped. Any idea how much it will be to fix or where to get a new end for it? Do you think anything on the inside is jacked up, it won't turn.


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## gte718p (Jul 30, 2009)

Lots of people have talked about doing a crawler. Not a lot of people have done it. I'm looking forward to seeing this.


Sucks about the motor.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

I was locked up but a few love taps to knock it back freed it up.
https://video.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...76902d5c5120de6873d9770dceb7&oe=5D5F3A54&dl=1


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Have you seen my electric samurai build called ZookEV? It may help you out a little. I’m running 33” tires and have run a few good trails such as the rubicon and Barrett lake.

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156817&highlight=Zookev


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## Kaelinator (Feb 9, 2019)

Very exciting! Not necessarily a reccomendation, just an option for you: you can recycle 18650 cells from old laptop batteries for very cheap. If you're comfortable DIYing a battery pack, I couldn't suggest anything better than 18650s.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Where were you going to put the battery pack? Larger tires may not be that great for rollover if the pack placement moves the CG up.


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

So sweet! Do it! I talked to rich Rudman the dude from Manzinita Micro on the phone about his D.C. electric Toyota pick up. He said he can't keep the tires from spinning above 800 amps while crawling with his zilla 2000 amp controller. Also said that you got to watch your motor temperature, It can roast it if you run it hard for over a couple minutes because not enough cooling with his advanced d.c. 8 inch motor setup.

https://www.offroadxtreme.com/news/no-cam-no-heads-and-no-carb-rich-rudmans-all-electric-4x4-toyota/


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks for the replies. See actual electric rigs that have been built helps a lot. 
So it looks like both the sami and Toyota have about 12kw batteries. That about the size I was thinking 12×90ah. I think I need more but don't have that big of a budget plus wanted to start with 144v of agm batteries. Probably look for the highest ah agm I can find and get a 2000w generator to pack around. Also I got some 1/4 inch steel plate from a buddy last night, is that good enough? Thinking two plates spaced about 2.5 inches apart for shaft separation and no clutch.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Tipover how does the electric compare to the 1.3 Suzuki motor, like does it run out of power at the top of a hill climb? Is it 96v?


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Seriously looking at buying a complete volt pack now for around 2000 from a salvage yard and not running bms (I only wheel it once a month and it is a trailer queen). Would need to split the volts in half and double the amp hours. And would need to figure out the charger.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

No more ice!!


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Coupler DIY. Haven't seen one done like this. Usually when that happens I am doing something wrong.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Gonna weld together


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## Olphart (May 25, 2017)

Any way to fix the link to your video?


I'd really love to follow this build.


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## Tipover (Feb 10, 2013)

Grant 117 said:


> Tipover how does the electric compare to the 1.3 Suzuki motor, like does it run out of power at the top of a hill climb? Is it 96v?


It is much more torque that the 1.3, but about the same horsepower. However the torque band is at a much lower RPM. I had to run a higher overal gear ration to stay in the band. I am running 96 volts from a Volt pack. With very little voltage sag compared to the lead acid pack I used in the beginning.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Sorry about the video. Next time I will use my phone instead of my buddies.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

You guys pointed me in the right direction. Ordered a complete volt pack 2013-2015 version.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Started making the adapter plate out of 1/4 . Need one for the motor then 3/4 spacer in between


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

It spins, does that mean it is lined up ...lol


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Wow Nice work! Keep it up! You almost have the first ever electric rock crawler tube buggy! I know I want one soon. So sick of wheeling with carbon monoxide gasses goin straight to my brain always feeling like I am about to pass out.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Yeah won't miss the heat and how loud it was.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

I think I found a good battery pack. 2015 Chevy volt.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

340v total
2kwh 42.4v
1kwh 21.2
Each cell 3.53


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

I'm guessing these are super low on charge?


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Is the high voltage cutoff for each cell 4.2 v? I know my lg chem cells from the chrysler pacifica hybrid will catch on fire if I charge above 4.2 v.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

leman2112 said:


> Is the high voltage cutoff for each cell 4.2 v? I know my lg chem cells from the chrysler pacifica hybrid will catch on fire if I charge above 4.2 v.


Yes I think so. 3.0 min and 4.2 max


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

How should I configure the batteries? Have 144v 500amp Curtis controller and a zivan 144v charger. 96 cells [email protected] cells and 2 @6 cells. I was thinking leave out one of the 12 cells and parallel the rest.


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

*4.1 volts is what my high voltage cutoff is set for in order to have the longest life. Bet you could get away with at 4.0 volts for a high voltage cutoff. That way you wouldn't have to take apart your pack. 

7modules(12cellsx4v) = 48v 

2 modules(6cellsx4v) = 24v

"I Think I would wire these in series to make one 48v battery.)


48v+48v+48v=144v

so now you have 8 cell modules.
maybe just run 6 of them for now
36s2p

could you buy 2 more 12 cell, 48 volt modules soon?

buy 2 more 48v modules and then you could run
36s3p?

hmmmm...


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Still going


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Could only fit a 24 v beside the motor


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## Olphart (May 25, 2017)

Grant 117 said:


> Could only fit a 24 v beside the motor





Looks awesome!


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks, another pic for ya


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

So nice!!!! Can't wait to see ya shredding up some trail in that torque monster!!!


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Trying to get this conversation done ASAP and back on the trail. Any problems you guys see ? I don’t have a lot of room to work with. My plan is to run the front 144v then have a separate 144v in the back and use forklift style connectors to switch back and forth and also to plug in the charger.


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

pretty sure this is my new favorite build! Battery is looking good! I want a volt pack because the coolant tube stuff is already built into the battery pack. quite the positive feature. Your gonna love the power those cells put out. My LG chems are wicked strong.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Grant 117 said:


> Yes I think so. 3.0 min and 4.2 max


3.0 is too low. Discharge testing shows the knee of the discharge curve at about 3.4. 
For example: https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/batteryVolt4313.pdf

3.5 or 3.6 seems to be a common low voltage cutoff for the volt cells, depending on how conservative you want to be for longevity. I myself am running 3.5.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

That link says 3.0-4.15 and 3.7 nominal


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

leman2112 said:


> pretty sure this is my new favorite build! Battery is looking good! I want a volt pack because the coolant tube stuff is already built into the battery pack. quite the positive feature. Your gonna love the power those cells put out. My LG chems are wicked strong.


Thanks glad you like it. I’m not going to use the cooling but don’t plan on long wot pulls or highway driving.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Grant 117 said:


> I’m not going to use the cooling but don’t plan on long wot pulls or highway driving.


Even without a radiator, you might want to consider hooking up and filling the system, with just a circulation pump to keep temperatures even.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Grant 117 said:


> That link says 3.0-4.15 and 3.7 nominal


To dead empty. Nobody uses a pack to dead empty. 
That link also shows the knee of the discharge curve at about 3.4V.
If you run that pack to 3.0V on a regular basis, it's not going to last very long. Do some searching on the forum and you'll get multiple confirmations. Yabert, for instance.
But by all means, go to 3.0V. It's your pack.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

swoozle said:


> Grant 117 said:
> 
> 
> > That link says 3.0-4.15 and 3.7 nominal
> ...


This is my first rodeo..lol. 
I thought the 3.0 minimum was with 20% left and was like a line you should not cross. I plan to run two 144v 50ah packs so I can run one down to a safe level plus some and only switch back if I need it to get to the trailer. But I was hoping to go lower than 3.5. And this is the first I have heard of the knee of the discharge curve.


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Oh good to know. I guess that I will have to change my low voltage cutoff to 3.5 volts as well. Thanks Swoozle!


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but here's one of the threads that I learned from. It has some good data and discussion (and differing charge limit point selections):
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168906


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Grant 117 said:


> Motor came in. Guessing it got dropped. Any idea how much it will be to fix or where to get a new end for it? Do you think anything on the inside is jacked up, it won't turn.


 Since your video doesn't work(as far as I can tell), what did you do to fix this broken end housing? Clutchless or with clutch? You may have answered this.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

electro wrks said:


> Grant 117 said:
> 
> 
> > Motor came in. Guessing it got dropped. Any idea how much it will be to fix or where to get a new end for it? Do you think anything on the inside is jacked up, it won't turn.
> ...


Clutchless. We had to move the center shaft about 1/2 inch back into place so the motor would spin. The plan is to get a new end for it.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

With that much movement of the armature, you should check the armature for damage to the windings from contact with the end housing, and possibly other contact points inside the motor.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Do I wire the a2 and s2 together or the way in the pic


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Or this way.


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## Olphart (May 25, 2017)

Those configurations determine the direction you motor spins.


Try it each way and see what your rotation is. (I think I would use the controller schematic as my primary source.)


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks, searching I found that A2 on the controller is for plug braking. So I didn’t hook it up that.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

So I have to parallel the two 24 volt batteries then run them in series with the two 48v batteries. Should the 24s be at the start, end, or middle of the pack?


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Well it isn’t working. No voltage at m- b+


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Put full voltage to the KSi and it works


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

https://youtu.be/PypYhdvzqqY


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Hey man, 

Can you just do one 144v pack in the front? (All in series).

48v+48v+24v+24v=144v

Then do another 144v pack in the rear. (All in series)

48v+48v+48v=144v

and just parrallel the two packs?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

leman2112 said:


> Can you just do one 144v pack in the front? (All in series).
> 
> 48v+48v+24v+24v=144v
> 
> ...


First, that assumes 4 V/cell, but the nominal voltage is 3.75 V/cell, so the first-generation Chevy Volt modules are nominally 22.5 V (6S 3P) and 45 V (12S 3P), resulting in 135 V nominal (and up to 148 V max)...
VOLT_BATTERY.pdf

The complete pack has two small modules and seven large ones, so this scheme would use all but one large module of the pack, which makes good sense to me (if the arrangement of two strings is desired).


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Yes Brian is right. The 144v charger couldn’t be turned down enough to not overcharge the pack because it isn’t really 144v. Had to change it up [email protected] & [email protected] so 168v pack, well not really.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Having to charge 3 cells at a time with a 12v charger to get the voltage up to match the rest of the pack. Is there a better way?


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

I got a zivan ng3 for like 150 bucks on ebay. It is setup for 12 volt batteries. it came from a corbin sparrow. Hummbug has an article on here how to switch it to his desired voltage, 156v? I think. After reading the article I learned that all he did was switch out a resistor with a soldering gun, to get it to the charging range he desired. If you don't want to do this work yourself you can send them to Elcon/Zivan to reprogram them for 75 bucks + shipping. That is what I am doing with my Elcon 2500. I chose this because it may be a little bit better with a little bit better charging amps but I do not really know yet. 

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200433&highlight=zivan


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sparrow-EV...733953?hash=item1cd3c121c1:g:B3gAAOSw3CdcX0aL

here is a link to a zivan ng3 on ebay for a good deal.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

What are you charging to?

I'm being conservative

I'm using 4.05 "full" and 3.5 empty

So your 144v battery would be - 36S - 145v to 126v

If you used 4.1v (also conservative) - 147.6v

Matching the voltages the way you are doing is a rough and ready way but it won't leave them balanced

You need to do that but (this once) charge them up above the linear part of the curve

Look up "Top Balance"

I really like those cells!


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Finished up the front axle. Hopefully get it out the barn within a week


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Well I had the 42 cell pack charged to 175.5 volts 4.18 per cell and that was overcharged for the the Curtis 1231c. Rigged up a fan and a lightbulb off a dc and ac inverter to get it to 173 where it started to work. Now need to run it down some more and hope the charger doesn’t take it over 173.


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

wow nice front axle! what hydraulic ram is that? nice dana 60! What is your rear axle? a 14 bolt? Glad you found a way to get your pack charged!NICE!!


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks, it’s a trail gear ram and it has a Dana 70 rear. Still waiting on hydraulic hoses so I can try the Volvo pump


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Not ready yet but had to try it
https://youtu.be/RcwZchGaal8


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

One more for ya
https://youtu.be/RzBcNYMqEXQ


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## gte718p (Jul 30, 2009)

That is awesome, when are we going to get some action shots? Obviously a pretty hard core rig when it had an ICE. Where do you wheel?



I think this has to be a record for going from concept to running vehicle.


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## Olphart (May 25, 2017)

Very cool!


What size is your battery pack going to be? Any guesses on range? 



One might guess that at rock crawling speeds it could go quite far per kwh. No wind resistance issues, but those tires are probably on the heavy side.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

gte718p said:


> That is awesome, when are we going to get some action shots? Obviously a pretty hard core rig when it had an ICE. Where do you wheel?
> 
> 
> 
> I think this has to be a record for going from concept to running vehicle.


Probably hit some trails next weekend. We hit parks in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama but our local park in Southern Indiana is called Interlake.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Olphart said:


> Very cool!
> 
> 
> What size is your battery pack going to be? Any guesses on range?
> ...


I guess it would be called a 156 volt pack. Hope to get all day out of 2 packs. Oh yeah those tires are 120 a piece


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Oh man your living my dreams dude!


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0U4E8kWEmM&feature=share


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

https://youtu.be/FwQutBURDPc


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Can't stop watching these. How long will it wheel for on a charge? Do you feel like the dc motor is overheating?


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

leman2112 said:


> Can't stop watching these. How long will it wheel for on a charge? Do you feel like the dc motor is overheating?


I only got about 4 hours out it with about 14kwh. Gonna do what I can to extend that by going down a tire size, putting thinner gear oil in everything 85/140 now, lighter wheels and more weight reduction but will still be adding another 7kwh when I find some. The dc motor actually felt cool to the touch when I would stop. Did have a 12v fan on it this time out.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

Here is the fan. 3 inch in and out.


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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

No more Curtis 1231
https://youtu.be/sWJFwB5gVRw


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Oh yeah, your gonna like the zilla 1k. Mine rips!!!! Is it a low voltage or high voltage? 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Kinda want to upgrade mine to HV so I can fast charge with a 200v+ Tesla charger. Plan on getting one soon with Damian mcquires logic board. 

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## Grant 117 (Jul 31, 2016)

leman2112 said:


> Oh yeah, your gonna like the zilla 1k. Mine rips!!!! Is it a low voltage or high voltage?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Hv have it set at 600amps and 160 volts but haven’t drove it yet. What do you have yours set at?


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

1000 lol! duh. It's really fun! 

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