# First Build Honda Beat EV - Kostov K9 220v - 10KW LIPO - Soliton Jr - 10KW charger



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello all

This is my first post on this forum, I am in the process of converting a Honda Beat into an EV, with the help of my local mechanic's Luke and Brent - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Southern-Motor-Development/91717767654?ref=stream
and Steve at Jozztek http://www.jozztek.com/

I have a blog for the EV although it has only just begun, I will be posting photo's & details of the build here - http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/
photo's coming very soon.

The donor vehicle was acquired in November of 2012 and was selected on Steve's advice concerning curb weights of donor cars, basically I spent a while searching eBay for a local (to my location) "sports" car that was less than a grand and weighed less than 1000KG, I guess I was lucky as within a few searches I found a great looking Honda Beat just around the corner from me and after checking the curb weight it turned in at a tiny 760Kg, perfect, although it is only a 2 seater being a Honda it is built like a tank, it "had" a massive 63 BHP! with its tiny 3 cylinder petrol engine and came with a recent dyno readout (who bothered to dyno this!) claiming that the actual value was nearer 57 BHP.

My local mechanic Brent took it for a spin before he and Luke striped the engine & ancillaries from the car and he laughed at just how under powered it was for a "Sports car".

I specified from the outset to Steve at Jozztek that I was after a performance EV but wanted to keep the total build cost to less than 10K (GBP)

And with his advice I might just manage that, I am fitting -

10KW Lipo battery pack (reserved & part paid for) 108 x Turnigy 5S1P LiPo packs (5Ah - 18.5V each) 12 banks in series to give the required 220V, 9 packs per bank. 

10KW charger from Emotorwerks - http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl Kit form (cant afford the built one) bought and paid for, arrived just a few days ago.

Kostov K9 220V Series wound DC motor also bought and paid for, this also arrived at the mechanics a week - 10 days ago.

Soliton Jr controller pack also bought and paid for and has also arrived at the mechanics.

Along with a number of extras, bussbars, cycle analyst, custom dashboard monitor - Steves design, etc, I will hopefully be using my 3D printer to produce ABS plastic parts such as the throttle sensor, dashboard LCD mounts etc. (I built the 3D printer recently it's a RepRap Prusa Mendle derivative)

I am hoping that the beat should be approx. 3-4 times more powerful than stock and give me a 40 mile range, looking forward to burning some rubber ;-)

I look forward to posting the details of the build as it progresses.

Graham


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sounds great!

my advice: check the Bill of Materials against what you have actually received in the charger kit.

Mine had well over £100 of parts missing.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice! A kind of Smart fortwo with a smaller front area.
I think your motor and controller is awesome for this kind of car, but I can't say same thing for your battery choice. I would probably choose Lifepo4 (Calb CA) despite the 15-20 Kg of weight in more and the the bigger volume.... but it's your choice.

120 Kw (200v 600A) will give about the same performance than my Smart. You will like!!


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

EV build blog updated with photos of the Honda Beat before and after engine & ancillaries were removed.

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/

I will post photos of the 10KW charger build as it progresses and photos of the K9 220V & Soliton Jr very soon (before fitting).

Graham


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I've dreamt of getting a small convertible, specifically this one to convert but since they are all right hand drive, they don't exist here in the US. The reason the original engine is underpowered is because Honda produced it as a kei car, which puts metrics on things like size and power. They had a required maximum displacement and power output but Honda wanted to produce something that had the looks that could sell in that Japanese market. I think they did it right, within the requirements of a kei car. The Mitsubishi iMiEV is the only kei car to hit the US in quite some time but it definitely isn't as interesting of a car as a soft top Honda Beat, but it did come over as an electric.

Your choice of motor, controller, and battery capacity are great but if you can reconfigure the pack for higher voltage you'll get much better high-end RPM acceleration. 220 volts is nominal, what was used to produce the 1 hour rating on a fixed dyno. I'd aim for more like 15 in series packs and 7 parallel(that would give you 3 extra packs or 14 series packs of 8 parallel and buy 4 more packs). You can definitely go higher voltage than 220v, just be sure you have a compatible RPM sensor connected to the Soliton. They've recently renamed the motor on the website to remove the 220v designation because of the misunderstanding. I think the commutator is more designed for 270 volts or so, that would be like the max voltage of the non-interpoled Netgain motors being 170v but nominal is 72v but in reality nobody runs the nominal voltage.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for the info MNDriver, I had already discussed the possibility of over volting the motor but was under the impression that I would be risking damaging the motor.

I will definitely be looking again at more banks in series when I get to the battery build considering this new info.

I was originally looking at building the battboxes to accommodate twice the number of packs to extend the range to 100Km when I could afford to but after discussion with my EV expert he advised that battery tech is changing so fast that I may end up with a square peg round hole problem i.e. future batteries may very well be of a completely different design (Flatpack's for example) and may need to be held under compression inside their battboxes, this would mean a complete redesign of the battboxes, I understand the new Tesla had this exact problem and had to spend many hours and loads of cash redesigning the battbox to fit new style batteries.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Concerning the choice of donor car, seeing as my partner has a firm grip on the purse strings and she would not be seen dead in any car unless it looks good you can see why I opted for the Beat, it was a condition of me being allowed to spend 10K of our savings on my mad project ;-) plus a little luck finding such a rare import so locally to where I live, It was great fun to drive even with the ICE so I can’t wait to see what it is capable of once it’s on the road.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

My choice of motor and controller were all thanks to Steve at Jozztek here in the UK he is a very experienced EV builder (6 years+ with mainly TT electric race bikes) I went to him initially with the view of using an Agni motor due to the efficiency of these type of motors but after much discussion and my insistence on building a "performance EV" he warned me off the Agni's for now as they are not currently powerful enough for a car at performance specifications without constant brush maintenance.

Graham


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

And the K9 HV is an excellent choice! You will enjoy the instant torque of over 150 lbs-ft.
But keep the clutch, that will help you a lot to improve overall performance (especially 0-60 mph acceleration).


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Yabert (Very long post sorry)

I was originally hoping to lose the clutch & gearbox and link directly to the diff. (Direct Drive giving least frictional heat losses?) giving me no need to manual shift and great torque from 0-80MPH ish. (not relay sure how fast this thing will go in the end)

But modern cars seem to have moved on since I last took one apart, and the beat has a (I think) bezel gear style link to the drive axels (showing my newbie ignorance of gearbox mechanics here, I don't know the correct mechanics terminology) basically the engine is mounted side on to the axels rather than the more traditional (well in older cars anyhow) straight down the middle style of linkage, so to keep costs down the mechanics have advised I keep the diff/gearbox and possibly rob the flywheel from the engine side to enable easy coupling to the motor flywheel plate (supplied free from Kostov, handy! Photo coming soon) this had lead me to believe that I would be unable to keep the clutch as it is contained in the engine side of the split block.

Would you happen to know if it is possible to use the flywheel and retaining the clutch as well? I assumed (possibly wrongly) that the physical shift linkage mechanics would all be part of the clutch housing (engine side I think, I may be wrong) and it would not be possible to reinstate it without very expensive custom machining of a new housing (or coupling plate) to take the shift linkage from the engine side to the gearbox side.

Beware I may very well be talking s**t here as I am not a trained mechanic and have only ever dabbled with car mechanics through need (brake discs/pads exhausts etc.) I did once change the engine out of an old style mini back in my student days (again because I could not afford a mechanic) but as it was a compression failure I never got as deep as the gearbox so gears/flywheels clutch’s and the like are definitely foreign to me.

Any more help advice here or elsewhere on the build would be greatly appreciated, The plan has already changed (slightly) twice this week after replies to this thread so please keep up the great work/advice guys as I am definitely open to any suggestions improvements or advice as long as I don't need to re-mortgage to implement any of it!

I can see the retaining the clutch would solve the reverse gear issue and allow me to use whatever gear I fancy for the driving conditions (steep hills, hill stops/starts etc.) but I had assumed (again possibly wrongly) that the clutch would introduce other issues into such a high powered system and if I was to floor it I would likely burn clutch plate rather than rubber (yes I do want to burn rubber, childish I know but I am desperate to show just how much torque is available in the average EV to the interested potential EV convert.)

What advantage is there to retaining the clutch other than the obvious reverse gear issue, I am guessing that hill starts aren’t really a problem as you would just hold the brake, or pull the handbrake and pull away with the accelerator just as in an automatic transmission.

Is it more economical (less of a drain) on the batteries to use a lower gear to pull away in? I had assumed gear changes would give a worse performance not better after all to change gear you are disconnecting the motor from the drivetrain for a short time.

I have been driving a Mitsubishi FTO for the last few years and just love the high performance and Porsche designed automatic gearbox it can shift faster than I ever could.

I am hoping this EV will be a marked improvement over the 200BHP FTO.

Graham


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Keep the clutch help to shift faster.
Keep the tranmission help to have more torque to the wheels.
Link the motor directly to the differencial is a real pain since you need to build custom gearbox.

Essentially, your car is similar than my Smart (rear motor, light weight) and you have the same ideas than me two year ago (high performance, direct drive).
I choose to use a VW gearbox for simplicity, forced to go clutchless (no enough space) and I can now start from stop from 1,2,3,4,5 or reverse.
Wheels lift from the groud in first speed and it's a bit slow in fifth speed (I almost never use it).

Take a look at my build thread and try to don't do the same error than me...

For inpiration, that is 125 Kw, 175 lbs-ft, 865 Kg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOCvnaIFKE


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi again Yabert

Surely no shift is faster than any shift? keeping the clutch may give me a faster pull away but then shifting slows me down, no?

I am guessing that I may well be forced to lose the clutch for the same reason (no room) but I was not planning on keeping it anyhow.

I was hoping that leaving the car in 4th almost permanently (stopping to change to 5th only for long journeys on the motorway and reverse when needed) would give me the sort of 0-60 speeds you demonstrate in your YouTube video, and that I would be able to continue constant acceleration with no breaks due to shifting right up to 80MPH.

Correct me if I am wrong here as you obviously have a lot of experience driving a high powered EV.

I am still baffled over why you feel keeping the clutch is useful? (other than burnouts) ;-)

Graham


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

In the video, 0-60 Km/h in 2.5 sec (0-37 mph)...

Increase the torque at wheel will improve the acceleration.
Example based on my car:
In second gear (around 1350 lbs-ft at wheel), I can drive from 0-43 mph and reach 37 mph can be done in 2.5 sec.
In fourth gear (around 625 lbs-ft at wheel), I can drive from 0-93 mph but I reach 37 mph in around 6 sec.

If you need to go with a single ratio, you will need the torque capability of a Kostov 11 coupled to a Soliton 1.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Graham

Yabert says; 
_Keep the tranmission help to have more torque to the wheels._
_Increase the torque at wheel will improve the acceleration._

This is true - but only until you spin the tires!

With such a light car do some calculations -

Weight over driven axle x 80% (tire grip) x tire radius = maximum useful wheel torque

Maximum useful wheel torque divided by diff ratio = maximum useful motor torque

With a 9 inch and a Soliton Jr I think that you will be able to spin the tires in top gear!

Next question - why do you want a 10Kw charger? - with such a small battery pack 1Kw would be enough
And would be cheaper and lighter! - weight is your enemy!


----------



## puddleglum (Oct 22, 2008)

sexstrap,
I think the reason you are confused by yabert's posts is that you are confused about the purpose of a clutch. The clutch provides a disconnect for the input shaft on the transmission, from the engine. When you shift gears, the input shaft is spinning at a different speed than the new gear you are going to and has to slow down or speed up to match the new gear. That speed match is much quicker to accomplish if you don't have to change the speed of the motor as well. That happens when you reengage the clutch. You don't need the clutch for burnouts or reverse, it won't help at all for that. The only advantage to keeping the clutch would be for quicker shifting. What I think yabert is saying is that you may get better acceleration times by starting in a low gear and shifting up once or twice, rather than just using a high gear, but only if you can shift quickly.


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I find it difficult to shift into reverse or first gear, or any gear for that matter with the car stopped, clutch in, and transmission not able to make that slight (normally effortless for the transmission) movement to get the teeth to line up for all three of my manual transmission cars. There's that consideration to keeping the clutch too.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Yabert said:


> In the video, 0-60 Km/h in 2.5 sec (0-37 mph)...
> 
> Increase the torque at wheel will improve the acceleration.
> Example based on my car:
> ...


Hi Yabert

Thanks for the info on gear ratios vs performance of your Smart for 2, I am still getting my head around the math for torques etc and I am primarily working on recomendatios from Steve @ Jozztek (Jozzer on this forum) and my mechanics who are excellent mechanicaly but this is there first EV build AFAIK.

I spoke to the mechanics this weekend (Sat) and after some discussion it looks like I have no choice but to go for a fixed gear ratio, mainly due to the extreamly small size of the Beat but partialy due to the additional expense and my mechanics insistence that the clutch is not wanted in such a small light car with such a powerfull motor and large (for size of car) battery pack.

I am inclined to believe them although I appreciate the explinatiion of why it may be possible and even desireable to keep a clutch in an EV, this and any other info will come in very handy on my next EV build (yes this is my EV "cherry" and once I have "popped" it I would love to convert an RX8 for example or some other equally sexy looking sportster with 4 seats) I am sticking to small 2 seater for my first build to keep cost down until I am more confident at EV building in general.

Graham


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Puddle
The reason for a clutch is as you say to help the speed match 
The reason the syncro cones don't instantly match the speeds is the rotational inertia of the motor/engine- however with an EV you don't need the flywheel so the rotational inertia of an electric motor is a lot less than that of an IC engine
In fact the rotational inertia of a 9 inch motor is probably less than that of a clutch and friction plate
So a 9 inch motor with a nice low inertia coupling should change gear as quickly as a system with a clutch

Hi MN Driver
When stationary a clutch should make no difference whatsoever - the effect you are seeing with IC cars is probably some type of locked in torque -


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Duncan

Thanks for the formula’s I will be plugging them with my stats for the car once I know them! currently it would look something like this -

Weight over driven axle :- 760KG (1676lb) minus weight of engine & ancillaries + Weight of Battery pack/Motor/Controller/Gearbox/extras x 80% (tire grip) x tire radius (14'-rear 13'-front, I guess Rear wheel diameter is what I need here?) = maximum useful wheel torque (?)

Maximum useful wheel torque divided by diff ratio (?) = maximum useful motor torque (?)

As you can see math is not my strongpoint  and It is a little early to know the exact figures of any of this yet.

But thanks anyhow I will be getting the car weighed once its is complete, There is a weighbridge at the local metal recycle yard.

Am I correct in thinking the original curb weight includes the weight of an average sized driver? (I seem to remember someone telling me this recently)

As for the charger question I think this is more to do with the simplicity of charging, I specified that I did not want to be opening the boot to connect jump leads or the like to anything inside the battery box (for safety reasons) but I wanted to convert the petrol filler to a 3 pin plug style charge point so that I could pull into a charging station and use the standard charger points that are being installed in the UK (Renault are pushing this here in the UK) also I will be charging at home most of the time from a standard 3 Pin UK plug single phase 13 Amp @ 240V.

The charger was again specified by Jozzer, and the size (10KW) was due I think to me wanting to not be messing around charging the 10KW battery pack in stages, I literally want to plug in and leave the car overnight to return in the morning and unplug and go to work, don’t forget this is a general commuter vehicle so it has to be guaranteed ready to go every morning without fail (am I dreaming here, or are EV's really this reliable, I sure hope so) I am guessing Jozzer specified this charger because of my newbeeness and desire for a simple 1 plug solution, that could guarantee a full charge from empty overnight or possibly less, I have no idea how long it is actually going to take to charge but I will be monitoring every part of the cars performance once it is up and running as IT Tech Support is where I am most experienced.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

MN Driver said:


> I find it difficult to shift into reverse or first gear, or any gear for that matter with the car stopped, clutch in, and transmission not able to make that slight (normally effortless for the transmission) movement to get the teeth to line up for all three of my manual transmission cars. There's that consideration to keeping the clutch too.


Good Point MN Driver

My mechanics have suggested keeping the clutch will be difficult on such a small car so I may have to rock the car with the boot open to change gear if needed (mid-engine) and get it to slip from 4th to 5th (or reverse to start with) I will probably fit a set of contactors to enable reversing on the motor from inside the car and leave it in 4th most of the time, 5th may only come in handy on long journeys (if at all) and with such a small battery I am not sure exactly what sort of range I will get (I have had guesstimates of everything from 40Miles to 100Miles, I am hoping the former is an under estimate, the latter is probably a dream!)

I am sincerly hoping that I may be "Test" driving this little Beat in May of this year if the build goes well, I will report my findings then.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Duncan

The "low inertia coupling" I assume is a splined tube coupling made up from the flywheel and the motor coupling?

I am of the understanding (from speaking to the mechanics this weekend) that I will be able to cut the splined part off the motor flywheel plate that Kostov kindly supplied free of charge and join it to the splined part of the flywheel off the engine side (I think this is just held in place on the ICE flywheel by 6 bolts) and mount/weld them into a milled steel tube to provide just such a low inertia coupling like you mention.

My Mechanics are looking into this next week as the first stage of my build proper (engine and ancillaries have already been stripped) they will also be getting the coupling plate for the Motor-Gearbox and an additional motor mount made up at the same time.

So I should be ready for stage two sizing up and figuring out where I am going to mount all the electronic/electrical gubbins, battery boxes etc in a couple of weeks, I am pushing to have this ready for a test drive by end of April (dream on!)

Duncan, are you suggesting that clutchless shifting is possible in an EV without risking any damage to the gearbox?

I ask as when I mentioned the possibility of clutchless shifting to my mechanic a look of shock horror passed across his face and he warned me that this would most likely lead to complete failure of the gearbox.

But don’t forget that he is a very experienced ICE mechanic and so is possibly not aware of the differences that an EV DC series wound motor would have on the drive train.

Does a DC series wound motor sync more easily to the gearbox due to the lower inertia of the motor compared to an ICE engine?

And if so is it safe in terms of not risking any kind of damage to the gearbox, or are you always taking a risk using clutchless shifting and you just need to learn to shift when the RPM of the motor matches the RPM of the gearbox? (and how would you know this without a specific shaft speed sensor?)

Many thanks for your input.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Duncan said:


> Hi Graham
> 
> Yabert says;
> _Keep the tranmission help to have more torque to the wheels._
> ...


Duncan

I just remembered that part of the reason (maybe the main reason) for the 10KW charger is so that I can upgrade to a larger battery pack at a later date to extend the range and I did not want to be ripping out chargers and the like just to upgrade so I guess you could call it future proofing the car.

Just waiting for those graphene batteries that are just around the corner ;-) (Dream Dream Dream Dreeeeam Dream Dream Dream)

Graham


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi Graham,

Clutchless shifting is indeed possible without damage, I'll swing by the garage next week and take them for a spin in the Mazda to prove it

Steve


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Weight over driven axle x 80% (tire grip) x tire radius = maximum useful wheel torque


Problem! It's difficult to calculate the real weight on rear tires after the weight transfer during acceleration.
Despite I have around 1350 lbs-ft at wheels (second gear) and low rolling resistance tires, they don't spin 80% of time on good pavement. 



> With a 9 inch and a Soliton Jr I think that you will be able to spin the tires in top gear


With only 150 lbs-ft at motor shaft (around 600 lbs-ft at wheels).... I doubt!



MN Driver said:


> I find it difficult to shift into reverse or first gear, or any gear for that matter with the car stopped, clutch in, and transmission not able to make that slight (normally effortless for the transmission) movement to get the teeth to line up for all three of my manual transmission cars. There's that consideration to keeping the clutch too.


Right, I notice the same. But simply, I gently press the accelerator to match the gear and that shift easily.
The clutch is a necessary to pass faster between two speeds (improve performance).



sexstrap said:


> Duncan, are you suggesting that clutchless shifting is possible in an EV without risking any damage to the gearbox?


Yes, it what he said... and it's what I do each days. The syncro slow down the motor and match the speed between motor and transmission. The only draw side, that probably cause wear a bit faster the syncro inside the transmission.
Or you can wait the motor armature slow down and match the transmision speed.


I notice an inconvenient if you finally decide to use the original transmission couple to a K9 HV. 
With a capacity of over 150 lbs-ft of torque at motor shaft, this transmission will receive over 3 times the torque produce by the original engine.
Are you interested to familiarized with Civic transmission...


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Graham
760Kg over the driven axle??
My car has 450Kg over the driven axle (with me in it)
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-dubious-device-44370p2.html?highlight=duncan

Battery charger
You are going for a 10Kwhr battery pack - that is 10 KiloWatt- hours

a 10Kw charger will recharge your battery from empty in about one hour!

If you intend charging overnight then you can use a 1Kw charger which will take 10 hours

Just seen your reply - needed for a bigger battery later!


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Duncan
> 
> The "low inertia coupling" I assume is a splined tube coupling made up from the *flywheel *and the motor coupling?
> 
> I am of the understanding (from speaking to the mechanics this weekend) that I will be able to cut the splined part off the motor flywheel plate that Kostov kindly supplied free of charge and join it to the splined part of the flywheel off the engine side (I think this is just held in place on the ICE flywheel by 6 bolts) and mount/weld them into a milled steel tube to provide just such a low inertia coupling like you mention.


In order to have a low rotational inertia coupling you need to lose the *flywheel*!

The flywheel is only needed because an IC engine operates by pulses so it needs something to keep it spinning

In an EV it is extra weight and most importantly inertia it will reduce your acceleration and ruin your gear-shifting


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Steve

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for the clarification, although I have been for a spin in your EV I was too busy holding onto my lunch to take note of the clutch less shifting although I did remember that you were using a stick at some points, I was focused on the dashboard readouts and general feel of your car, we will have a detailed discussion very soon once the mechanics are less busy, Brent is currently trying to finish the ICE Skyline project for another customer he has estimated that he should be ready to start on the EV next week (or poss week after) he has found a local guy with CAD CAM machine to machine up the coupling plate & spline coupling, and estimated that this would only take a couple of days to complete (under estimate in my opinion) but all the same the build proper begins very soon (this month).

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Yabert said:


> Problem! It's difficult to calculate the real weight on rear tires after the weight transfer during acceleration.
> Despite I have around 1350 lbs-ft at wheels (second gear) and low rolling resistance tires, they don't spin 80% of time on good pavement.
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Yabert

Yes I was and still am concerned that I am seriously pushing the specs on the Beat's transmission, hence my concern over trying to use clutch less shifting, I am thinking I may end up shredding the synchromesh in the first few months of driving, but if it comes to this I guess I will be on the market for a better transmission, Civic you say may be an option, I will keep this in mind although size is very critical in such a small car.

Thanks

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Duncan said:


> Hi Graham
> 760Kg over the driven axle??
> My car has 450Kg over the driven axle (with me in it)
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-dubious-device-44370p2.html?highlight=duncan
> ...


Duncan

1 Hour! superb that is fantastic news I would call that a range extender if I ever saw one, with the easy plugging (standard charge point compatible, if there is such a thing here in the UK, I will investigate this now!) charger I am hoping to implement on this car I could plan longer journeys around charge point locations (there must be an app for that!) I could travel the length and breadth of this small country, I can feel a summer of EV shows coming on ;-)

S*"t I could even consider track days, Wicked! now where is my local track with an EV charge point :-( Reality bites!

Graham

OK a quick web search reveals the difference between theory and fact, most charge points here in the UK are currently only slow charge (6-8 hours) although there does seem to be a movement to faster charging (3-4 hours) here in the UK at least.

http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.php

However I could still impliment a 1 hour charge at home if I want to upgrade my supply to support HPC (70AMP) charging so things are starting to improve (allbeit very slowly)

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Duncan said:


> In order to have a low rotational inertia coupling you need to lose the *flywheel*!
> 
> The flywheel is only needed because an IC engine operates by pulses so it needs something to keep it spinning
> 
> In an EV it is extra weight and most importantly inertia it will reduce your acceleration and ruin your gear-shifting


Duncan

Yep I am losing the flywheel.

Graham


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Duncan
> 
> 1 Hour! superb that is fantastic news I would call that a range extender if I ever saw one, with the easy plugging (standard charge point compatible, if there is such a thing here in the UK, I will investigate this now!) charger I am hoping to implement on this car I could plan longer journeys around charge point locations (there must be an app for that!) I could travel the length and breadth of this small country, I can feel a summer of EV shows coming on ;-)
> 
> ...


 Your problem with track days will be finding a track with a 10kw plug socket - though a big gennie could do it too (not very green).
We were usually limited to 3-4 kW at most UK tracks.
The beauty of that charger is that you can turn it down to match the power source..


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Jozzer said:


> Your problem with track days will be finding a track with a 10kw plug socket - though a big gennie could do it too (not very green).
> We were usually limited to 3-4 kW at most UK tracks.
> The beauty of that charger is that you can turn it down to match the power source..


Hi Steve

Are you ElectricTTing this year? when does the season start?

Sorry this is probably not the place to be posting this but I just had to ask.

Graham


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> Are you ElectricTTing this year? when does the season start?
> 
> ...


TT is end of May, but I'm not booked for anything there this year.
Don't know when the FIM series starts, looks like they have taken over TTXGP too so there will be one unified series. It's your thread, you can talk about whatever you like


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Thought I'd tune in for this clutch - no clutch debate.

I use a clutch in my conversion (10" motor, Soliton Jr) and find that in normal driving I just don't use it.

However I do find it MUCH quicker to shift with the clutch (when accelerating or showing off )

An added bonus is that it is a mechanical disconnect in the event of a runaway.

Post 45 of my build thread (in my sig) if you want some inspiration on how to attach the flywheel to the motor.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Skooler

_Post 45 of my build thread (in my sig) if you want some inspiration on how to attach the flywheel to the motor.

_I assume that you kept the flywheel? - that is why you still need a clutch!

Lose the rotary inertia and your gearbox syncros can work without disengaging the motor


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Duncan said:


> Hi Skooler
> 
> _Post 45 of my build thread (in my sig) if you want some inspiration on how to attach the flywheel to the motor.
> 
> ...


Yep, I kept the flywheel.

It *DOES* shift well without using the clutch, its just quicker to shift with the clutch.

Perhaps not having the added rotating mass (flywheel, clutch, pressure plate) would mean that shifting with just the syncros would be quicker?

I don't really think there is a right or wrong answer - its all down to personal preference and time/ability/funding.

Another plus point for keeping the clutch is it should help to soften out the delivery of torque to the gearbox.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Skooler

Good Point about the fail safe in the event of runaway, Gav (sticky on this forum I think) made a point of double springing his throttle sensor as recommended by another EV'er, which is not something I would have thought of initially but a great safety tip.

As it looks like I will have to lose the clutch anyhow I will definitely be fitting a dual sprung throttle sensor.

maybe I should consider a kill switch of some sort? or does the controller (Soliton Jr) have one?

I have begun checking the BOM on my 10KW non-pfc charger kit (as per your good advice, thanks) so far so good but a lot of the parts are equivalents so it is taking me quite some time, photos & possibly a build video coming soon, I am not even sure if I have the 9.0 or 9.2 release!

9.2 shipped in December I think but that is almost exactly when I ordered (although it did not ship to till Jan) I am guessing it's a 9.2 release.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Wow, things have moved on a little since I last posted here ;-) 
(understatement of the year!) I have been posting on my blog and forgetting to update this thread.

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/

The car is nearing completion now and I have been accepted to show it at the Brighton Mini Maker Fair on the 7th of September! so the pressure to finish it off is now on.

Since my last post here I have had the coupling plate and Low inertial coupling made & fitted, Brent has fitted the Motor/Gearbox into the car and made up some great looking brackets to hold it all in place securely.

Then I got a local metal worker to make up the Ali boxes for the batteries from some very old 3mm Ali sheet that I have had laying around for over 10 years (yes I am a serious hoarder!)

The boxes went back to Brent (the mechanic) to make up the steel frame in the car, this is now done.

Then the boxes went back to the metal worker to have some additional Ali brackets TIG welded on to them, this was to allow the boxes to be locked in place, "locking brackets" I guess you would call them.

Whilst this was going on Brent has given the whole Car a "MEGA" clean, they even took the sub frame off to clean between it and the car, This was because I have asked them to undercoat and under seal the whole underside of the whole car as I have specified that I need this car to last 10 years to pay for itself in fuel savings, Bearing in mind this car is already 20 years old (and in bloody good shape for its age, I am beginning to love Honda's) that is a tall order!

I have never seen a car this clean other than new one's in showrooms or maybe classics at motor shows.

After this Brent undercoated and under sealed and then promptly boarded an airplane for his holiday's (Damn!) hence I have had time to update my blog and get around to posting here.

As soon as he returns (this Thursday 18th July) I will be begging him to drill the few remaining holes in the battery boxes ASAP so that we can get battery stuffing!

I have spoken to Steve my Local EV Expert, and the guy who will be putting this first battery together and teaching me how to do it "Safely" myself, and he reckons that as soon as he is available (10 days after Brent gets back from his hols, Double Damn!) It will take around 4 days to build the battery most of this will be to manufacture the buss bars, and then only another week to finish the car! (I seriously doubt this timescale).

So hopefully around mid-August I should at least be testing (possibly Drive testing) the car!

Graham


----------

