# Lightweight High C-Rating Discharging Pouch Cells



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Gentlemen, 

I have spent weeks researching all the lightweight high discharging cells on the market, nothing beats the Haiyin cell for racing. 170 grams each with a 400amp 10+S burst rating and a 300amp continuous rating.

http://www.nemrs.net/haiyinlipocells.html

Proven on the track:

http://www.nemrs.net/formulaeracing.html
http://www.lithiumaniacsracing.com/


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

Ok, those are some impressive batteries. I may get my electric helicopter yet!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Pack size and weight examples:

Most racers only need 2000amps.

*5P 30AH 1.8lbs* *2000amps*

40S 5P Pack = 72lbs 168V 2000amps

54S 5P Pack = 97lbs 227V 2000amps

90S 5P Pack = 162lbs 378V 2000amps

We have designed a clamping method for a 5P module (very light), the 10P packs require blocks and a bolt.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am curious to see if someone can provide details on a cell or cells that produce 400amps and only weigh 170grams?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*Each 10P 1S *(3.7N 4000amp) *Battery Weight:

Cells: 3.5 lbs
Copper: 1.5 lbs









*


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have moved your post about sales to the vendors forum, here, to keep sales in the vendors forum.


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am curious to see if someone can provide details on a cell or cells that produce 400amps and only weigh 170grams?


How about the New Turnigy A-Spec cells....
139g
390amp constant
*780amp burst*

Granted I don't trust any claims without discharge curves, real use data, & what counts as a "burst". The cells are new, but if the claims are remotely true you could conservatively run 400amps until the thing is empty. Pretty darn impressive.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...EC_6000mah_1S_65_130C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Salty EV said:


> How about the New Turnigy A-Spec cells....
> 139g
> 390amp constant
> *780amp burst*
> ...


Yes, the Turnigy cell is a very very good cell that creates enormous power. I should know, I built the World's largest Turnigy Lipo Pack last year. The only problem is the tab size and not available in single cells. It is very hard to monitor a 370V 4000amp pack with balance wires and no BMS.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I see the link you posted is to a hard case single cell, this is a new product. I am curious to see the tab size inside the case? If the tab size is large enough than you can build a 4000amp pack out of these cells. If not, then the tab becomes a fuse.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> I have spent weeks researching all the lightweight high discharging cells on the market, nothing beats the Haiyin cell for racing. 170 grams each with a 400amp 10+S burst rating and a 300amp continuous rating.
> 
> ...


The A123 18700 F1 cell . . . apparently they can be bought for $100 a pop. This is suppose to be the most powerful cell on the planet. . . and it's LiFePo... .not poly, how about that? lol They are suppose to be "well over 20,000 w/kg" according to Mr. Dube. At 34 grams they put out more than 500 amps.


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I see the link you posted is to a hard case single cell, this is a new product. I am curious to see the tab size inside the case? If the tab size is large enough than you can build a 4000amp pack out of these cells. If not, then the tab becomes a fuse.


They have multi-cell packs as well, was just showing the single 6ah cell for an easier comparison on weight & discharge. The current plug on that cell would be a joke at 135C and would just melt, the way to go would be order a pack, rip it apart & re-do the wiring so it could actually discharge & not melt the plugs provided. No clue on the tabs since these appear to only be about 1 week old.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> The A123 18700 F1 cell . . . apparently they can be bought for $100 a pop. This is suppose to be the most powerful cell on the planet. . . and it's LiFePo... .not poly, how about that? lol They are suppose to be "well over 20,000 w/kg" according to Mr. Dube. At 34 grams they put out more than 500 amps.


I heard about these new cells. But buying from A123/ Mavizen is like pulling teeth!


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> The A123 18700 F1 cell . . . apparently they can be bought for $100 a pop. This is suppose to be the most powerful cell on the planet. . . and it's LiFePo... .not poly, how about that? lol They are suppose to be "well over 20,000 w/kg" according to Mr. Dube. At 34 grams they put out more than 500 amps.


Well HK states power density of 7.5kw/kg. However if you do the math. 
139g (with wires & case, not sure how much lighter a bare cell would be)
3.7v nominal
130C burst (on 6ah cell)

This works out to ~20.7 kw/kg so go figure....


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Salty EV said:


> Well HK states power density of 7.5kw/kg. However if you do the math.
> 139g (with wires & case, not sure how much lighter a bare cell would be)
> 3.7v nominal
> 130C burst (on 6ah cell)
> ...


the numbers I quoted are at load, in other words sagged voltage levels. your numbers are nominal. A battery will give out peak energy at half of nominal voltage. .. so, still a long way from the F1 cells.


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## fireblade (Aug 20, 2012)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Pack size and weight examples:
> 
> Most racers only need 2000amps.
> 
> ...


Two questions to LithiumaniacsEVRacing:

You used the burst amps and the peak charging voltage of 4.2V and not the open circuit voltage of 3.7V or the average sagging voltage at that burst current, why?

And your site gives a recharge cycle of >500, is there a larger recharge cycle based on lower discharge rates and DOD for these cells?

Thanks


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