# [EVDL] pedal failure problem



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think that a solution to the accelerator pedal problem might be to put a
pressure switch so that when you press on the pedal the switch becomes
closed and then the function, i.e current flow, can happen; lift off the
pedal and the switch is open and the shut off system takes over.
The Ford truck system is to use a duplication and a fairly sophisticated
software to decide if all's well.. not too good to rely on software IMHO,
when a simpler solution and totally independent is available.
This would also give a fail safe system at very little cost. If Toyota had
had this it would have saved some lives !

-- 
When all else fails, remember failure is the success of knowing what not to
do.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Maybe this is OT, but this whole sticking accelerator problem seems 
rather overblown.

I had a 1968 VW Bug, and its pedal assembly was mounted on the floor. I 
drove this vehicle in a snowy climate (CO). If I didn't pay attention 
to the snow, sand, gravel and gunk being tracked into the car by my 
shoes, I would have problems with the pedals sticking. If a pedal 
sticks, you use your toe or heel to pull it back. Clean the crud off 
the floor. Later, I scraped the crud off on the runner (on the side of 
the vehicle) before I put my feet in the car. Problem solved. Keep the 
floor vacuumed. If a carpet catches the pedals and causes them to not 
move freely (one of the Toyota issues), move or modify the carpet. This 
is not rocket science, but it sure causes millions to be spent in this 
day and age.



> ron doctors wrote:
> > I think that a solution to the accelerator pedal problem might be to put a
> > pressure switch so that when you press on the pedal the switch becomes
> > closed and then the function, i.e current flow, can happen; lift off the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry, I don't believe the Toyota accelerator pedal is sticking at all. 
The fly-by-wire method of controlling the throttle body via the ECM is the
problem. And the deletion of braking-returns-the-throttle-body-to-idle-
speed protection interlock is just crummy software design.

I'll keep driving my '65 Chevy II with real steel rod linkage to the
carburetor. And a real electro-mechanical ignition key switch that will
kill the 12 volts to the coil.

Such is new technology.

This should reinforce the knowledge that a DC EV speed controller can
short ON and speed the car away. That's why it's more important than ever
to have proper EV safeties such as contactors, circuit breakers, fuses and
more. Best bet is to use a controller that looks at itself for improper
operation and shuts off the EV propulsion system automatically in the
event of impending failure.

The Curtis, Logisystems, Kelly don't do that.

But that's another topic. I'll call it "Third World Controllers."

Now that the public's onto runaway cars, don't let your EV do that and
sour the public's impression of EV's.

Just my opinion, of course.

Russ Kaufmann

RUSSCO Engineering

http://russcoev.com

The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI



> Maybe this is OT, but this whole sticking accelerator problem seems
> rather overblown.
>
> I had a 1968 VW Bug, and its pedal assembly was mounted on the floor. I
> drove this vehicle in a snowy climate (CO). If I didn't pay attention
> to the snow, sand, gravel and gunk being tracked into the car by my
> shoes, I would have problems with the pedals sticking. If a pedal
> sticks, you use your toe or heel to pull it back. Clean the crud off
> the floor. Later, I scraped the crud off on the runner (on the side of
> the vehicle) before I put my feet in the car. Problem solved. Keep the
> floor vacuumed. If a carpet catches the pedals and causes them to not
> move freely (one of the Toyota issues), move or modify the carpet. This
> is not rocket science, but it sure causes millions to be spent in this
> day and age.
>


> > ron doctors wrote:
> >> I think that a solution to the accelerator pedal problem might be to put
> >> a
> >> pressure switch so that when you press on the pedal the switch becomes
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > Sorry, I don't believe the Toyota accelerator pedal is sticking at all.
> > The fly-by-wire method of controlling the throttle body via the ECM is the
> > problem. And the deletion of braking-returns-the-throttle-body-to-idle-
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger W <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> > I can't help but wonder how many of the Toyota drivers have thought to si=
> mply kill the ignition or to shift into neutral and just let the engine blo=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Sorry, I don't believe the Toyota accelerator pedal is sticking at all.
> > The fly-by-wire method of controlling the throttle body via the ECM is
> the
> > problem. And the deletion of braking-returns-the-throttle-body-to-idle-
> > speed protection interlock is just crummy software design.
>
> I wonder if they have one throttle pot or two. I still maintain that one
> of the smarter things on the US Electricar Dolphin system is that it has
> *two* 5k pots going into the Dolphin,


I can tell you how the NetGain WarP-Drive controller works in respect to the
Hall-effect throttle pedal. The throttle pedal provides two analog
channels, with each channel operating at a different voltage that has a
linear relationship to the other channel. This allows for validating of the
two channels. The pedal we are primarily using has one channel 2x the other
channel. If this condition is not met, a fault code is generated and output
is not allowed. Zero volts and supply voltage (5V) are not allowable values
for either channel. If either of these conditions are present, then there
is a fault and output is not allowed. Two separate microcontrollers, both
on redundant, monitored power supplies, must both read a proper signal from
the throttle to allow for output.

Discussion has come up in some of the news about EMI, and the possibility
that this is causing the vehicles to accelerate uncontrolled. While I admit
EMI can present some interesting challenges, I have a hard time seeing how
it could generate sustained alteration to the dual analog signals for any
significant duration, especially without being detected.

Finally, the key input signal will *always* open the main contactor. If
anything were to fail, the driver should let off the throttle, and if that
for some reason failed (power section failed full on, which has never been
observed in the WarP-Drive, even in severe over-stress tests), then the key
*should* be turned off, and the main contactor and any (suggested) secondary
contactors would open.

I understand that any organization could possibly make mistakes with regards
to safety, but this should be the NUMBER ONE goal with any product. I know
it has been our primary focus with the WarP-Drive.

-Ryan
-- 
NetGain Controls, Inc.
695 W 1725 N
Logan, UT 84321
[email protected] <[email protected]>
435-705-5100
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have heard from some reports that once the car was "run away" throwing it
into Neutral did nothing. And that makes sense to me because the
transmission is Electronically controlled, and if the engine computer and
lost control, so has the PCM since it's the same now. One person did survive
a Toyota run away, and during their testimony this week they said they threw
the car in neutral and it did NOTHING, just kept on going 100 MPH.

>From being a student of computer engineering, and my experience with EV's, I
do have to say that the flaw with the runaway Toyota's has got to be more in
line with the engine and transmission computer, than just a sticky pedal. =


In a modern car, when your turn your key off it doesn't shut off power, it
tells the car's computer to shut off power. Same with the transmission, the
shifter just tells the PCM what gear to start off in, and in my EV (1996
Honda Civic) I have an automatic transmission that is computer controlled,
and if I miss shift, like going from Neutral to Reverse while rolling
forward, the PCM says "No ya don't" and won't engage. =


I have two distinct safety measures in my EV. First I have my key cut power
to my 12 volt system, and a circuit breaker under my e-brake so I can rip
the e-brake and cut all power at once. And when my 12 volt cuts off, the
transmission automatically looses power to its solenoids and disengages from
whatever gear it was in.

If I owned a Toyota, I would rig up a switch from the fuse to the engine
computer so if it ever goes crazy, I could just kill the +12 from the
computer.


David Harrington

Electric Civic Conversion
http://civicity.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:16 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] pedal failure problem



> Roger W <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> > I can't help but wonder how many of the Toyota drivers have thought to
> simply kill the ignition or to shift into neutral and just let the engine
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My Classic Prius could shift into any gear while driving except P
(that is, you *can* shift into P but it will be unpleasant)
If shifting into R while driving forward, any accel input will
result in negative torque (decelerating and then moving reverse)
but if you were on a downhill slope you could maintain speed
by shifting into R and applying throttle, the result would be
exactly identical to the regen braking.
Shifting to N simply told the computer to not generate any
torque with either of the two motors, so if the engine was
already running it would idle and if it was not running, the
stalled engine would cause the motors to spin idly.

If I am not mistaken, the new Prius uses the same safety feature =

that any modern computer is equipped with - no matter how badly
it hangs, if you press the power button for 5 full seconds then
it will hard-power-off. I believe there is a separate monitoring
circuit in the power supply and it sounds like dropping the
contactor when you power down the computer that way.
This circuit has been in there since the power button became
software-operated, to allow you to force the product off using
the same button even if the software is not responsive.
I expect (and I hear it validated by some) that the Prius will
always power off when holding the power button, just like a PC.

I agree that what you self-build, you also need to design-in
safety feature for the what-if situation.
My production EV was re-converted with a different controller
and they placed a small orange push-button in the center of
the dash. Hitting that button caused the controller to panic
and disable all operations (hardware reset to idle, you needed
to reboot (restart) the car to get it to work.
Since this was an AC drive, it made sense so that in case of
a runaway, the orange button was the kill switch (no more
current flowing, even contactors dropped as they were controlled
by the AC controller)

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:46 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] pedal failure problem



> Roger W <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> > I can't help but wonder how many of the Toyota drivers have thought to si=
> mply kill the ignition or to shift into neutral and just let the engine blo=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Are you sure the car doesn't mechanically do neutral?

This document seems to indicate neutral isn't electrically commanded, but rather a reported state: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h16.pdf Caveat, I don't know if this covers the recalled cars. I also know the newer Prius obviously has an electrically commanded neutral, the control feels more like a switch than a mechanical connection.

EV content: This is the first electronic mapping for the tranny I have seen, it could be helpful to someone trying to make an automatic tranny work with an EV. It might also provide info for yet another safety cutoff for controller runaway.




________________________________
From: David Harrington <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 9:17:55 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] pedal failure problem

I have heard from some reports that once the car was "run away" throwing it
into Neutral did nothing. And that makes sense to me because the
transmission is Electronically controlled, and if the engine computer and
lost control, so has the PCM since it's the same now. One person did survive
a Toyota run away, and during their testimony this week they said they threw
the car in neutral and it did NOTHING, just kept on going 100 MPH.

>From being a student of computer engineering, and my experience with EV's, I
do have to say that the flaw with the runaway Toyota's has got to be more in
line with the engine and transmission computer, than just a sticky pedal. 

In a modern car, when your turn your key off it doesn't shut off power, it
tells the car's computer to shut off power. Same with the transmission, the
shifter just tells the PCM what gear to start off in, and in my EV (1996
Honda Civic) I have an automatic transmission that is computer controlled,
and if I miss shift, like going from Neutral to Reverse while rolling
forward, the PCM says "No ya don't" and won't engage. 

I have two distinct safety measures in my EV. First I have my key cut power
to my 12 volt system, and a circuit breaker under my e-brake so I can rip
the e-brake and cut all power at once. And when my 12 volt cuts off, the
transmission automatically looses power to its solenoids and disengages from
whatever gear it was in.

If I owned a Toyota, I would rig up a switch from the fuse to the engine
computer so if it ever goes crazy, I could just kill the +12 from the
computer.


David Harrington

Electric Civic Conversion
http://civicity.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:16 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] pedal failure problem



> Roger W <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> > I can't help but wonder how many of the Toyota drivers have thought to
> simply kill the ignition or to shift into neutral and just let the engine
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 4:17 AM, David Harrington


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I have heard from some reports that once the car was "run away" throwing it
> > into Neutral did nothing. And that makes sense to me because the
> > transmission is Electronically controlled, and if the engine computer and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Watch the video at the following link. It shows a professor who can
induce the accel problem in any of the cars at will.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-toyota-electronics-design-flaw-causes-sudden-acceleration-video.html



> Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 4:17 AM, David Harrington
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> I have heard from some reports that once the car was "run away" throwing it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I read the report and the problem was two parts.
1 the two part floor mats. The top part was not secured and slid up and
jammed under the pedal preventing it's return
2 The kill switch must be held for 3 seconds when under load, and the
drivers didn't know this, I guess they kept pressing it and pressing it
like they do when at zero throttle.

There is No key.
There is no neutral.
Not sure of all the details but the electronics wasn't failing
The deaths were in a lexus service loaner, but the driver drove a lexus.

Sometimes it is about assumptions. A long time ago I rented a Toyota
Camry to go to Comdex.
When I picked up the car a guy drove it to the front door while I signed
the papers and I got in and drove home.
When I got home I put it in park but could not shut the thing off. I
had to call the renal agency after playing with it for a while.
It turned out in that year you had to step on the brake AND press a
little button under the key switch to turn it off.

They called it a safety feature, but I never understood why an
interlock on shut-off could be of any safety value.
Later years (like the one my Sister has) they moved the little button to
an obvious location, allow it to turn off the motor and the button just
lets you remove the key, and removed the brake pedal interlock from the
disconnect.

I have always wondered, What does that little button to remove key do
for us? heck my 87 nissan Z has that but not my 88 mits or 95 pontiac


> As one who teaches an ev safety course, I am sure that my students will tell you that I personally stress MULTIPLE layers of safety and kill features including both electrical and mechanical cut-outs. Technology is not so much the problem as drivers who are totally without a clue as to what to do when technology fails.
> 
> I can't help but wonder how many of the Toyota drivers have thought to simply kill the ignition or to shift into neutral and just let the engine blow. At that point - who cares about the power plant? . But then, sadly, I guess that many of those who have experienced throttle runaway are not present to describe their efforts.
> 
> I hope ev owners mentally "practice " what to do in case of such a problem. A bit of mental rehersal goes a long way!
> 
> Roger Wright
>
> Corporations are constitutionally guaranteed the right to spend unlimited tax-exempt dollars on corporate advertising in political campaigns.
>
> YOU ARE NOT! 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've driven quite a few cars that had a button or lever that needed to be 
pressed to remove the key. They do perform one safety function - if you 
turn the ignition off WITHOUT pressing the button the steering lock will 
not engage. So for situations like a stuck throttle, you could turn the 
engine off and still be able to steer.

Unfortunately, it's very easy to twist the key and push the button/lever 
at the same time. After a while it becomes automatic, and you do both at 
the same time without realizing it. I've seen a few cars where the button 
is on the opposite side of the steering wheel from the key. So it takes 2 
hands to remove your key, but makes it difficult to lock the steering in 
an emergency.

On my '87 VW, the steering lock only engages when the key is removed from 
the cylinder.

When I was 10 my Dad's AMC Hornet got stuck at full throttle on the way to 
school. Some hose jammed the accelerator linkage... After mashing on the 
brakes for a bit Dad shifted into neutral, pulled over, and turned the car 
off. They do make quite a racket at full throttle!

EV related content: At PIR the White Zombie had its accelerator linkage 
stick at the end of the track. I think Tim left several hundred feet of 
skid marks before pulling the emergency disconnect. Both front tires had 
nice flat spots afterwards. This was a case where the controller wouldn't 
detect a failure, and having a potbox switch wouldn't have helped either. 
Being a direct drive vehicle, there was also no NEUTRAL. Having the extra 
disconnect literally saved a life.

-Adrian



> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > I have always wondered, What does that little button to remove key do
> > for us? heck my 87 nissan Z has that but not my 88 mits or 95 pontiac
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> EV related content: At PIR the White Zombie had its accelerator linkage
> stick at the end of the track. I think Tim left several hundred feet of
> skid marks before pulling the emergency disconnect. Both front tires had
> nice flat spots afterwards. This was a case where the controller wouldn't
> detect a failure, and having a potbox switch wouldn't have helped either.
> Being a direct drive vehicle, there was also no NEUTRAL. Having the extra
> disconnect literally saved a life.

And that's why EV's should have a clutch! Eliminating the clutch is for
el cheapo conversions. Real EV's retain the clutch.

Russ Kaufmann

RUSSCO Engineering

http://russcoev.com

The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Right. All my cars now that have that button are that way.
The point was on that particular model and year, you had to step on
brake and push button to turn key enough to shut off motor.
Obviously they changed that. must not of had any run away since it was
double spring throttle body.

That reminds me. I have a pontiac grand am that has no button but if you
go one to far it locks the steering and you must put it in park and step
on the brake to turn the key.
When I first had that car I was turning around a corner and it died. I
tried to restart it while rolling and ended up locking the steering. I
could not steer to the curb and had to come to a complete stop in the
middle of two lanes of very pissed of california drivers to get it
restarted or freed up.

Reminds me of the 68 ford fairlane I used to own. One day I was turning
around in a business district on a way to a job interview and stepped on
the gas. Well It chose at that moment to rip the motor mount and the
motor lifted up. Essentially pulling on the hard linkage gas pedal all
by itself. The pedal flew away from my foot and I cut doughnuts in the
middle of the street. Same car had a really really stupid throttle
arrangement and went wide open on my mom on the freeway on the day we
bought it. But there ya just turn of the key and cost to the side. No
biggy. I learned to buy "muscle mounts" and I think the industry learned
to not make them that way anymore.

It doesn't take a computer to make something fail, just poor design or
un-considered use cases.

I am finding it interesting that the line I heard form Toyota talks
about floor mats and this professor talks about an electronic failure,
Id like to know exactly what is shorted and then connected to create the
"fault"



> I've driven quite a few cars that had a button or lever that needed to
> be pressed to remove the key. They do perform one safety function - if
> you turn the ignition off WITHOUT pressing the button the steering
> lock will not engage. So for situations like a stuck throttle, you
> could turn the engine off and still be able to steer.
>
> Unfortunately, it's very easy to twist the key and push the
> button/lever at the same time. After a while it becomes automatic, and
> you do both at the same time without realizing it. I've seen a few
> cars where the button is on the opposite side of the steering wheel
> from the key. So it takes 2 hands to remove your key, but makes it
> difficult to lock the steering in an emergency.
>
> On my '87 VW, the steering lock only engages when the key is removed
> from the cylinder.
>
> When I was 10 my Dad's AMC Hornet got stuck at full throttle on the
> way to school. Some hose jammed the accelerator linkage... After
> mashing on the brakes for a bit Dad shifted into neutral, pulled over,
> and turned the car off. They do make quite a racket at full throttle!
>
> EV related content: At PIR the White Zombie had its accelerator
> linkage stick at the end of the track. I think Tim left several
> hundred feet of skid marks before pulling the emergency disconnect.
> Both front tires had nice flat spots afterwards. This was a case where
> the controller wouldn't detect a failure, and having a potbox switch
> wouldn't have helped either. Being a direct drive vehicle, there was
> also no NEUTRAL. Having the extra disconnect literally saved a life.
>
> -Adrian
>
>


> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> >> I have always wondered, What does that little button to remove key do
> >> for us? heck my 87 nissan Z has that but not my 88 mits or 95 pontiac
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

And again I ask, what is the difference between a big red button or foot
operated mechanical disconnect and a clutch?

Shrapnel?

I don't think using the hammer(clutch) for a screwdriver(proper
emergency disconnect) is automatically correct.

> >
> > EV related content: At PIR the White Zombie had its accelerator linkage
> > stick at the end of the track. I think Tim left several hundred feet of
> > skid marks before pulling the emergency disconnect. Both front tires had
> > nice flat spots afterwards. This was a case where the controller wouldn't
> > detect a failure, and having a potbox switch wouldn't have helped either.
> > Being a direct drive vehicle, there was also no NEUTRAL. Having the extra
> > disconnect literally saved a life.
> 

And that's why EV's should have a clutch! Eliminating the clutch is for
el cheapo conversions. Real EV's retain the clutch.

Russ Kaufmann

RUSSCO Engineering

http://russcoev.com

The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yep the skid mark was 500 ft long.

The Pinto has the key lock on the other side of the column, PITA.

If I remember the oh sheisse bar let out a big blue flash and everyone 
thought the Zombie was on fire 

Sent from my iPhone



> Adrian DeLeon <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I've driven quite a few cars that had a button or lever that needed
> > to be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>And that's why EV's should have a clutch!

Removing the mechanical load from a series DC motor DOL to a traction pack
will result in *very* high velocity shrapnel.

If a clutch is your safety disconnect, do use a thick motor shield.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 26 February 2010 3:10 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] pedal failure problem

>
> EV related content: At PIR the White Zombie had its accelerator 
> linkage stick at the end of the track. I think Tim left several 
> hundred feet of skid marks before pulling the emergency disconnect. 
> Both front tires had nice flat spots afterwards. This was a case where 
> the controller wouldn't detect a failure, and having a potbox switch
wouldn't have helped either.
> Being a direct drive vehicle, there was also no NEUTRAL. Having the 
> extra disconnect literally saved a life.

And that's why EV's should have a clutch! Eliminating the clutch is for el
cheapo conversions. Real EV's retain the clutch.

Russ Kaufmann

RUSSCO Engineering

http://russcoev.com

The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI

_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Not when you are racing and don't want to carry dead weight of a 
tranny ;-)

Mike

Sent from my iPhone



> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> EV related content: At PIR the White Zombie had its accelerator
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Matt Lacey wrote:
> 
> > If a clutch is your safety disconnect, do use a thick motor shield.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Doug Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > On Feb 25, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Matt Lacey wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Nelson wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Doug Weathers <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>


> David Nelson wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Doug Weathers <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>>> If a clutch is your safety disconnect, do use a thick motor shield.

>> How about the thick iron case of the motor?

> The comm bars are not in the iron case. They are under the brushes
> which usually have a screen over them.

One of our MN EAA club members was towing his EV back from a show, and 
accidentally left it in first gear. At highway speed, the motor RPM was 
so high that it and/or the clutch exploded.

If a person had been in the car, they could easily have been killed by 
the shrapnel. Pieces of the clutch broke the bell housing in half, and 
tore through the floor. Comm bars from the motor went through the brush 
screen and steel body and were found a considerable distance away.
-- 
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377	| There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net	| That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 25 Feb 2010 at 10:10, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > And that's why EV's should have a clutch! Eliminating the clutch is for
> > el cheapo conversions.
> ...


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