# [EVDL] S10 pickup conversion: long bed vs short bed



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm planning on converting an S10 pickup and was
wondering what the battery space was like between a
long bed and a short bed. I would prefer an extended
cab version but I don't believe that a long bed
extended cab version was made. So, how many 6V flooded
batteries can fit under the beds of the two bed
lengths?

Because of the hills I routinely have to travel I'm
considering using the AC55 motor that Electro Auto has
but don't know if I can get enough voltage with 6V
batteries.

Any suggestions?

Thank you,


David D. Nelson
[email protected]



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David D. Nelson wrote:
> > So, how many 6V flooded
> > batteries can fit under the beds of the two bed
> > lengths?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David,

My El Camino is the same size as a short bed, and if you fill the entire bed 
with batteries, that will be six per roll for seven rolls makes 42 batteries 
and that is between the wheel wells, leaving a wire way space of about 4 
inches wide on both sides, which works good for running you cables and wires 
to the front.

My cables lay in the bottom of the center console that I extended from the 
rear wall panel to the fire wall. Custom made compartments above the wire 
way with hinge covers that holds all the control switches. Fuses and circuit 
breakers are mount on rail chassis below the covers.

A friend of mine has the long bed, where you have 8-foot length, so that 
makes two more rolls or 54 batteries.

I only use 30 6V batteries mostly place ahead of the rear axle, which leaves 
me 15 inches of space by 55 inches wide for the battery charger and 
equipment panels.

I have plenty of trunk space, because I install a Pontiac hatch back cover 
that goes up to roof which allows a space above the battery box covers to 
the glass at about 18 inches which taper down to 4 inches at the tail gate.

A long bed would allow you to put most of the batteries ahead of the rear 
axle, so as to transfer some of the weight to the front.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David D. Nelson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:07 PM
Subject: [EVDL] S10 pickup conversion: long bed vs short bed


> I'm planning on converting an S10 pickup and was
> wondering what the battery space was like between a
> long bed and a short bed. I would prefer an extended
> cab version but I don't believe that a long bed
> extended cab version was made. So, how many 6V flooded
> batteries can fit under the beds of the two bed
> lengths?
>
> Because of the hills I routinely have to travel I'm
> considering using the AC55 motor that Electro Auto has
> but don't know if I can get enough voltage with 6V
> batteries.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> David D. Nelson
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

First of all, it depends which size of battery you are going
to put under the bed.
Let's assume T-105 for now.
They are more than 10" by slightly over 7".
Between the frame rails is about 33" but you cannot
place 3 next to each other due to the drive shaft being in
the way. So, you can place a sequence of batteries from
cabin to rear axle along each frame rails.
In case of a long bed, you have about 44" so you may
be able to place 6 on each side of the driveshaft,
12 in total.
Now how can others have more batteries under the bed
even with a short bed?
Two other places allow batteries:
- behind the rear axle, between the struts is approx
28" available, I was able to squeeze 4 batteries side
by side between the struts as I dared not to go further
back, as this will will load the rear axle way too much.
(The further out, the larger the impact on the rear
axle: with a 72 lbs battery two feet behind the rear
axle, you add at least 100 lbs weight to the rear axle,
because the battery unloads the front axle and the rear
has to make up for that. And that is only static loading,
the dynamic loading (handling) is even worse.

Anyway - the other place where you can store batteries
is outside the frame rails.
Dependent on how much you want to modify the bed's
sheet metal sides, there is at least 7" of space when
keeping the curving-in bed and up to a ft of space if
you want to use all the space to the side of the truck.
Note that you will need to relocate the brake lines
(both hydraulic line and emergency brake cable) at the
driver side.
Long bed allows a max of 33" box between cabin and wheels,
so you may be able to place 3 outside the frame rails at
each side.
Using all 3 places, this adds up to 12 + 4 + 6 = 22 under
a long bed.
I have no measurements of a short bed, but I guess you
lose at least one, possibly 2 batteries in each set in
front of the wheels, so either 8 + 4 + 4 = 16 or
10 + 4 + 4 = 18 for a short bed.

Checking pictures on the EV Album and contacting owners
will help, as well as doing your own measurements on the
truck you like. 

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rich Long
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 2:52 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 pickup conversion: long bed vs short bed



> David D. Nelson wrote:
> > So, how many 6V flooded
> > batteries can fit under the beds of the two bed lengths?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David and Cor,

Great comments Cor. I'm glad you're thinking.
I haven't done the measurements, but perhaps install as many batteries
between the rails in front of the rear axle and a few behind it taking into
account Cor's remarks.

Then install the rest in the bed.

How to access the one's beneath to water?
Try the Trap door design used by some. It requires cutting the bed and
putting on extra hinges.

It ain't fun I'm sure.

perhaps the batteries in the bed can be slid to the outside edges of the
bed and between the wheel wells where no batteries are beneath leaving
enough room to access the ones under the bed.

THis is a bit of a mess, so I can't quite figure out the solution.

Thanks, Ben

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

try a tilt bed for the cargo area it does not have to be hydraulic but it would help
----- Original Message ----- 
From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 pickup conversion: long bed vs short bed


David and Cor,

Great comments Cor. I'm glad you're thinking.
I haven't done the measurements, but perhaps install as many batteries
between the rails in front of the rear axle and a few behind it taking into
account Cor's remarks.

Then install the rest in the bed.

How to access the one's beneath to water?
Try the Trap door design used by some. It requires cutting the bed and
putting on extra hinges.

It ain't fun I'm sure.

perhaps the batteries in the bed can be slid to the outside edges of the
bed and between the wheel wells where no batteries are beneath leaving
enough room to access the ones under the bed.

THis is a bit of a mess, so I can't quite figure out the solution.

Thanks, Ben

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Now how can others have more batteries under the bed
> even with a short bed?
> Two other places allow batteries:
> - behind the rear axle, between the struts is approx
> 28" available, I was able to squeeze 4 batteries side
> by side between the struts as I dared not to go further
> back, as this will will load the rear axle way too much.
> (The further out, the larger the impact on the rear
> axle: with a 72 lbs battery two feet behind the rear
> axle, you add at least 100 lbs weight to the rear axle,
> because the battery unloads the front axle and the rear
> has to make up for that. And that is only static loading,
> the dynamic loading (handling) is even worse.

ummmm..... this really messes up my plan 
I have an extended cab toyota and only have enough room for 10
batteries (525 lbs) between the cab and the rear axle in a box sitting
over the drive shaft.
That leaves 14 more batteries to find a place to put. I was going to
try to squeeze 4 (210 lbs) under the hood and place the other 12 (630
lbs) behind the rear axle.
...Is this a bad idea?
My original curb weight with engine was 3760 lbs, 1600 lbs over the
rear axle and 2180 lbs over the front axle.

-- 
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

another reason for not putting batteries behind the rear axle is that it 
will increase the moment of inertia around the vertical axis and contribute 
to handling problems and vehicle stability in turns.







On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:31:40 -0800, Tehben Dean wrote
> > Now how can others have more batteries under the bed
> > even with a short bed?
> > Two other places allow batteries:
> > - behind the rear axle, between the struts is approx
> > 28" available, I was able to squeeze 4 batteries side
> > by side between the struts as I dared not to go further
> > back, as this will will load the rear axle way too much.
> > (The further out, the larger the impact on the rear
> > axle: with a 72 lbs battery two feet behind the rear
> > axle, you add at least 100 lbs weight to the rear axle,
> > because the battery unloads the front axle and the rear
> > has to make up for that. And that is only static loading,
> > the dynamic loading (handling) is even worse.
> 
> ummmm..... this really messes up my plan 
> I have an extended cab toyota and only have enough room for 10
> batteries (525 lbs) between the cab and the rear axle in a box 
> sitting over the drive shaft. That leaves 14 more batteries to find 
> a place to put. I was going to try to squeeze 4 (210 lbs) under the 
> hood and place the other 12 (630 lbs) behind the rear axle. ...Is 
> this a bad idea? My original curb weight with engine was 3760 lbs, 
> 1600 lbs over the rear axle and 2180 lbs over the front axle.
> 
> -- 
> Tehben
> '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> 'hElix EV'
> Website: www.helixev.com
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ben, Cor, and others,

Thank you for the great ideas. I think that since this
is my first conversion and it would be nice to have
the extra room in the cab I'm going to get an extended
cab version. I like the idea of not having any
batteries in the bed but if I do go with an AC system
I may need to put batteries in the bed to get enough
voltage. If I do put batteries in the bed I wonder if
I could put some in a box on rails which would allow
me to slide them back to gain access to the batteries
underneath the bed. I would have to make sure that I
had a beefy locking mechanism to keep the box in
place.

Since I live in SW Washington and it doesn't get too
cold here (20F is cold for here) can I get away with
having minimal/no insulation around the batteries?

Another idea I had for battery placement would be to
cut a hole in the bed of the pickup and build a
battery box that will span the whole width of the bed
and just clear the drive line. This might lower the CG
of the batteries a little but I don't know how much.

Thank you for the ideas.

David



> --- [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > David and Cor,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Since I live in SW Washington and it doesn't get too
> cold here (20F is cold for here) can I get away with
> having minimal/no insulation around the batteries?
> 
It all depends on the type of range you want. 20F is
below freezing, and you'll have 65% of your normal
range. Is it garaged? I find that in my garage, I
don't get below 15C. When the batteries are
discharged, they warm a bit from resistance, and if
the car isn't going to sit for too long, all is well!
peace,


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a tilt bed, it was made by unbolting the bed from
the beams underneath and adding two heavy duty hinges at
the end of the frame rails and attaching the hinges to some
metal brakets that were attached to the bed
(the bed does not have much "meat" back there, so you need
to spread the load out)
Two gas-dampers were attached to help lift the bed 
(manually only)
and I installed a ground wire between the bed and frame
otherwise the tail-lights don't work.

Having all batteries underneath the bed (in fact, since I
have AGMs, there are several that slide under the cabin,
lying on their side) allows me to use the whole bed and
tilting it up makes for easy access.

See EV Album #694 for some photos
http://evalbum.com/694

Hope this helps.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 pickup conversion: long bed vs short bed

David and Cor,

Great comments Cor. I'm glad you're thinking.
I haven't done the measurements, but perhaps install as many batteries between the rails in front of the rear axle and a few behind it taking into account Cor's remarks.

Then install the rest in the bed.

How to access the one's beneath to water?
Try the Trap door design used by some. It requires cutting the bed and putting on extra hinges.

It ain't fun I'm sure.

perhaps the batteries in the bed can be slid to the outside edges of the bed and between the wheel wells where no batteries are beneath leaving enough room to access the ones under the bed.

THis is a bit of a mess, so I can't quite figure out the solution.

Thanks, Ben

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Time to chime in 

I have a long bed S-10 with 144V of batteries. Most of them are under the
bed and in the front of the truck. The bed is tiltable, but I added 4 more
batteries to bring system voltage up to 144V and those batteries are
located inside the bed. I don't want to remove this 4 batts for each and
every maintenance cycle, so I added trap doors to the bed. That gives me
access to all the batteries under the bed without any trouble.

Yes, the cab is small, but there's enough room behind the seats for some
groceries or, in my case, a Zivan charger and a Xantrex 120V DC to 120VAC
1000W inverter. I have a nice toolbox in the bed to store the groceries
in.

Michaela
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/693.html


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Another idea I had for battery placement would be to
> cut a hole in the bed of the pickup and build a
> battery box that will span the whole width of the bed
> and just clear the drive line.

Do you intend to put batteries OVER the drive line? Make sure the drive 
line won't bounce up far enough to destroy your box the first time you hit 
a pot hole... or carry a heavy load... Or do you mean a box that's really 
"in the bed", but the bed around the box is cut so it can still lift out 
of the way?

A home built flatbed might be just the thing. Replace the bed with 2x6" 
wood planks, leaving room behind the cab for your extra box (a standard 
pickup toolbox maybe?). Find some way to easily slide the extra box 
rearward to service the batteries underneath. Remove the wooden flatbed, 
service the batteries, then slide the extra box rearward to service the 
last few batts.

I owned a full size extended cab once - not only was the rear seat rarely 
used, but it tended to fill up with junk! At the NEDRA Nationals Marko 
said he might put an empty box under the hood of his pickup to use for 
secure storage. Like a trunk for a truck. Now THAT's a great idea 

Bob Batson at EV America (www.ev-america.com) sells S10 lift bed kits. I 
also found a lift bed diagram from someone on this list - it involved 
making a subframe out of 1" square tubing and using some bits of angle 
iron bolted through the frame rails for the hinges.

As far as battery room goes, the engine compartment of my pickup looks 
cavernous compared to my '87 VW!

-Adrian

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tehben,

I have a '94 Toyota standard cab/short-bed and fit 16 T125's between the frame rails/behind rear axle (same as typical S-10 conversion) with 4 up front. It's tight but can be done. Use air springs to beef-up the suspension.

Frank

----- Original Message ----
From: Tehben Dean <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:31:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 pickup conversion: long bed vs short bed

> Now how can others have more batteries under the bed
> even with a short bed?
> Two other places allow batteries:
> - behind the rear axle, between the struts is approx
> 28" available, I was able to squeeze 4 batteries side
> by side between the struts as I dared not to go further
> back, as this will will load the rear axle way too much.
> (The further out, the larger the impact on the rear
> axle: with a 72 lbs battery two feet behind the rear
> axle, you add at least 100 lbs weight to the rear axle,
> because the battery unloads the front axle and the rear
> has to make up for that. And that is only static loading,
> the dynamic loading (handling) is even worse.

ummmm..... this really messes up my plan 
I have an extended cab toyota and only have enough room for 10
batteries (525 lbs) between the cab and the rear axle in a box sitting
over the drive shaft.
That leaves 14 more batteries to find a place to put. I was going to
try to squeeze 4 (210 lbs) under the hood and place the other 12 (630
lbs) behind the rear axle.
...Is this a bad idea?
My original curb weight with engine was 3760 lbs, 1600 lbs over the
rear axle and 2180 lbs over the front axle.

-- 
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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