# [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok, well I can certainly see that point of view, my problem comes with implementation. It seems next to impossible to come up with a solution that everyone would consider fair, would end up costing anyone a significant amount less, and people would not feel infringed on their right to privacy. Is SEVA planning on offering an alternative solution, or simply protesting what is currently being proposed? I think until I see a solution in the works that feels more equitable and is easy for everyone to understand I will be a supporter of the current proposal. I remember a few years back John Wayland protesting a similar EV tax in Oregon which as far as I know is still currently on the books. I believe it is a double registration fee for EVs which worked out to be about $35 annual. The details are a bit fuzzy though.
Just for a frame of reference I looked up some figures for my two current gas vehicles.
At 37.5 cents a gallon it looks like my Honda Insight costs me about .625 cents per mile in state of Washington gas taxes and my wifes SUV is roughly 3 times that or 1.875 cents a mile. So I can definitely see where this feels unfair to some EV users, but for me you are just not talking about enough total money to get fired up over. 
damon



> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:24:43 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...
> 
> Hi Damon:
> 
> None of us are against paying our share.
> 
>  But look... In Washington State, a 3/4 Ton Pick-up does not pay the 
> same as a 18 Wheeler. It is based on Road Use, fuel use, and weight of 
> the vehicle. It should be the same with all the Different EV's
> 
> We just think some kind of sliding scale should apply to EV;s too.
> 
> After all, a guy with a little GEM NEV, driving 2000 miles a year, 
> shouldn't be taxed at the same rate as a guy with a TESLA Roadster ( who 
> can well afford the $100 ) or a Two Ton SMITH Electric Delivery truck, 
> which should probably pay MORE.
> or a guy with a Volt, or Leaf, or an Electric Scooter... They should 
> all pay their share, but not a Flat Fee cross the board.
> 
> IMHO......


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I know there is a lot of Emotional Responses to a "Flat Tax" but the only
valid scaling factor on my title is vehicle weight so perhaps a sliding
scale based upon the same scale already used on Semi-Tractor & Trailer rigs
would be considered more fair???
Regards,
Dennis Miles
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


> Steven Lough <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Hi Damon:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In NZ a few of us wrote to the minister of transport suggesting that EV's be
free of road user charges, and they actually did it. It is quite easy to do
that here and get a personal reply sometimes.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of damon henry
Sent: Friday, 28 January 2011 9:12 a.m.
To: EV List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...



Ok, well I can certainly see that point of view, my problem comes with
implementation. It seems next to impossible to come up with a solution that
everyone would consider fair, would end up costing anyone a significant
amount less, and people would not feel infringed on their right to privacy.
Is SEVA planning on offering an alternative solution, or simply protesting
what is currently being proposed? I think until I see a solution in the
works that feels more equitable and is easy for everyone to understand I
will be a supporter of the current proposal. I remember a few years back
John Wayland protesting a similar EV tax in Oregon which as far as I know is
still currently on the books. I believe it is a double registration fee for
EVs which worked out to be about $35 annual. The details are a bit fuzzy
though.
Just for a frame of reference I looked up some figures for my two current
gas vehicles.
At 37.5 cents a gallon it looks like my Honda Insight costs me about .625
cents per mile in state of Washington gas taxes and my wifes SUV is roughly
3 times that or 1.875 cents a mile. So I can definitely see where this feels
unfair to some EV users, but for me you are just not talking about enough
total money to get fired up over. 
damon



> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:24:43 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...
> 
> Hi Damon:
> 
> None of us are against paying our share.
> 
> But look... In Washington State, a 3/4 Ton Pick-up does not pay the 
> same as a 18 Wheeler. It is based on Road Use, fuel use, and weight of 
> the vehicle. It should be the same with all the Different EV's
> 
> We just think some kind of sliding scale should apply to EV;s too.
> 
> After all, a guy with a little GEM NEV, driving 2000 miles a year, 
> shouldn't be taxed at the same rate as a guy with a TESLA Roadster ( who 
> can well afford the $100 ) or a Two Ton SMITH Electric Delivery truck, 
> which should probably pay MORE.
> or a guy with a Volt, or Leaf, or an Electric Scooter... They should 
> all pay their share, but not a Flat Fee cross the board.
> 
> IMHO......


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dennis Miles wrote:
> > I know there is a lot of Emotional Responses to a "Flat Tax" but the only
> > valid scaling factor on my title is vehicle weight so perhaps a sliding
> > scale based upon the same scale already used on Semi-Tractor & Trailer rigs
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> All David Nelson has to do to keep from paying 5 cents a mile is drive 10,000 miles instead of 5000.

That is funny, Damon. The most I ever drove my Gizmo with a lead acid
pack in a year was 2300 miles. Not because I didn't want to drive it
farther but because I was range limited. I was able to drive it the 5K
miles last year because of my LiFePO4 12.8kWh pack which dropped the
vehicle weight from 993lbs to 829lbs. My commute is 6 miles round trip
so that only accounts for ~1400 miles per year. Furthermore, driving a
Gizmo long distances leads to a very sore throttle finger! I know it
is my choice to drive this rig but I don't see why it should cost me
several times what it costs to drive my Honda Insight that is over
twice the weight and only one more wheel.

I may have mis-read it but I believe LPG vehicles don't pay $100/year
so why should EVs?

-- 
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The State of Washington is in dire economic difficulties. I live in WA. 
The state is closing tax loopholes and looking for new taxes with a
vengeance. Right now, the flat tax will be a bad public relations move for
the state and will bring in almost no money. I believe that all possible
incentives should stay in place until EV's are more plentiful on our
roads. The EV percentage now is nil. Eventually, EV's like all other
vehicles will have to pay a fair share of taxes and a means to equate the
EV tax to the tax now imposed on gasoline will be found.







>


> Dennis Miles wrote:
> >> I know there is a lot of Emotional Responses to a "Flat Tax" but the
> >> only
> >> valid scaling factor on my title is vehicle weight so perhaps a sliding
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I understand that it does not seem fair, but my point is that it is only a little bit unfair. I mean come on it is only $100. That is not even enough to purchase one of the 100 ahr LiFePO4 cells you bought. So yes it could be made more fair, but you would still be entitled to pay something correct? So if there was some way to make the law absolutely fair the most it could save you is less than $100, and who knows it may even end up costing you more. That is what I worry about the most. For instance, you may have to spend $2000 to have a state approved charging system installed at your house so that they could accurately tax you $22 a year. Or maybe you would have to tow your Gizmo 200 miles to reach the closest DOT station that was equipped to certify your odometer reading for the year. There are a million nightmare scenarios someone could conjure up that would make us wish we had just taken the flat tax while we had the chance.
damon

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:47:57 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...
> 
> > All David Nelson has to do to keep from paying 5 cents a mile is drive 10,000 miles instead of 5000.
> 
> That is funny, Damon. The most I ever drove my Gizmo with a lead acid
> pack in a year was 2300 miles. Not because I didn't want to drive it
> farther but because I was range limited. I was able to drive it the 5K
> miles last year because of my LiFePO4 12.8kWh pack which dropped the
> vehicle weight from 993lbs to 829lbs. My commute is 6 miles round trip
> so that only accounts for ~1400 miles per year. Furthermore, driving a
> Gizmo long distances leads to a very sore throttle finger! I know it
> is my choice to drive this rig but I don't see why it should cost me
> several times what it costs to drive my Honda Insight that is over
> twice the weight and only one more wheel.
> 
> I may have mis-read it but I believe LPG vehicles don't pay $100/year
> so why should EVs?
> 
> -- 
> David D. Nelson
> http://evalbum.com/1328
> 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow, when we go to tri-axle on the tractor and trailer we increase the load
capability to 60 tons ( 120,000 lb.) on 26 wheels, as compares to 40 tons
(80,000 lbs.) on 18 wheels with tandem axles.
The toll road and bridge is very penalizing with a price for two axles like
a car being $X, for three axles it goes to $2X four axles is $3Xand five
axles is $4X for an 18 wheeler. Sp when they charge a car $1.00 they charge
that 18 wheeler in the other lane $4.00 and a seven axle would pay $6.00 but
it caries the weight of 30 automobiles at 4,000 lb. each.

Dennis Miles



> Rick Beebe <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 01/27/2011 11:03 PM, Childress, Matthew wrote:
> > > If the amount of roadwear caused by a regularly weighted vehicle (2-4
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> robert winfield wrote:
> > uhh, 266 gallons would equate to 12,100 miles/year for my prius, which i drive
> > about 19,500 a year (a prius is hybrid electric so this is sorta EV)
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Willie

I agree that it is a higher rate if we think in terms of taxation by miles
used. The gas tax sort of does that. But trying to tax an EV based on
actual miles driven becomes either difficult or overly "big brotherish" for
some people including many politicians. So their rather simplistic but also
practical (from their perspective) solution is to ask: "if this was a
similar gas car, how much tax would we likely raise?". It's not completely
fair but to be honest it seems like a reasonable approach. I don't think
$100 a year is unreasonable.

A strong argument has been made here that the current system of paying for
road upkeep is not fair to cars in general. But that's unlikely to change
anytime soon. Given the current system I don't see this proposal as being
that bad.

Peter Flipsen Jr


> "Willie McKemie" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 03:34:06AM -0800, robert winfield wrote:
> > > uhh, 266 gallons would equate to 12,100 miles/year for my prius, which i
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> > It seems lead conversions are un-likely to go more than 2,000 miles a
> > year. Lithium, maybe 6,000 miles per year at best.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Most people work at least 200 days a year,
throw in an errand or two in the weekends
and you are looking at a conservative 300
trips per year.
I don't know about your commute and I can't
find a value for an average but I am guessing
that about 12 to 15 miles would be a good
average commute for people with an EV, in line
with the 50% DOD of a typical EV pack that is
50-60 miles to 100% dead (still talking about lead)
so 300 x 12 x 2 (return trip) is at least 7k miles/y
YMMV of course.

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:20 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...



> Willie McKemie wrote:
> > It seems lead conversions are un-likely to go more than 2,000 miles a
> > year. Lithium, maybe 6,000 miles per year at best.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Willie McKemie wrote:
> > > It seems lead conversions are un-likely to go more than 2,000 miles a
> > > year. Lithium, maybe 6,000 miles per year at best.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:56:05AM +0530, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Most people work at least 200 days a year,
> throw in an errand or two in the weekends
> and you are looking at a conservative 300
> trips per year.
> I don't know about your commute and I can't
> find a value for an average but I am guessing
> that about 12 to 15 miles would be a good
> average commute for people with an EV, in line
> with the 50% DOD of a typical EV pack that is
> 50-60 miles to 100% dead (still talking about lead)
> so 300 x 12 x 2 (return trip) is at least 7k miles/y
> YMMV of course.

I will stipulate that an EV COULD accumulate miles at that rate. But, 
DO they? Please offer up your experience. How many miles per year 
have YOU put on an EV? For how many years?

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 160 days 12 hours 03 minutes

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> >> That estimate seems awfully low. 2k/year is barely 5 miles a day.
> 
> > I THINK you've recently indicated you only put about 1,500 miles a year
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Let's say 7k miles is reasonable. The problem is what mpg to compare to.
Looking backwards, it's easy to pick 25m/g. But looking forwards, many
people will be driving vehicles that get 40-50m/g. At 40m/g, you would
would pay $66 in wash. state gas tax. At 50m/g, you'd pay $53. Why should
EVs pay more than their fair share (excluding truckers). $100 is way too
high.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: 19 February, 2011 1:02 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Washington State FLAT EV Tax...

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:56:05AM +0530, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Most people work at least 200 days a year, throw in an errand or two 
> in the weekends and you are looking at a conservative 300 trips per 
> year.
> I don't know about your commute and I can't find a value for an 
> average but I am guessing that about 12 to 15 miles would be a good 
> average commute for people with an EV, in line with the 50% DOD of a 
> typical EV pack that is 50-60 miles to 100% dead (still talking about 
> lead) so 300 x 12 x 2 (return trip) is at least 7k miles/y YMMV of 
> course.

I will stipulate that an EV COULD accumulate miles at that rate. But, DO
they? Please offer up your experience. How many miles per year have YOU
put on an EV? For how many years?

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 160 days 12 hours 03 minutes

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie wrote:
> >I will stipulate that an EV COULD accumulate miles at that rate. But,
> DO they? Please offer up your experience. How many miles per year have
> YOU put on an EV? For how many years?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Willie,

Here's my real world data. I have just finished two years with my EV and
commute virtually every work day going 5.5 miles each way. I also do
occassional short trips on weekends. I've just racked up 5700 miles which
means 2750 miles per year.

My range is limited and so my mileage is at the lowest end of what might be
typical, because I use 12v batteries. My little car can't handle the weight
of 6v batteries (unless I exceed GVWR which I refuse to do).

Peter Flipsen Jr


> "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Willie wrote:
> > >I will stipulate that an EV COULD accumulate miles at that rate. But,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I do not live in WA, but what EV tax is implemented in WA, will likely
be copied by legislators in other states. So this tax will have an 
impact on each an every EV driver where ever they are (no mater what
state/province/country).

Knowing each EV driver's yearly mileage will ultimately show my point:
a tax formula that factors in yearly miles driven and the weight of 
the EV would be more fair than a lazy-legislator's flat-tax. But like 
what has been posted, its likely too much work for lazy-legislators to 
do this taxation fairly. 

Though it could as simple as having an EV come in like an annual ICE 
smog check: go in, read the miles, tax paid. Production EVs & pihs 
would have their weight already on record.

For me, working 5 days a week with a yearly two weeks off means:
5 days * 50 weeks = 250 working-days a year. When I was a hp 
Customer Engineer I should be so lucky as to work so little. I was 
always working (7 days * 50 weeks = 350 working-days a year).

In some cases, I am a worst-case heavy weight as EV conversions 
go, and a best case as commute miles go, yet not 250 but 350 
work-commute days a year.

My 1985 S10 Blazer EV conversion weighed in at 5000 lbs (a lead-sled).

When I was working my commute was 10 miles (5 miles each way), 7 days
a week (10 miles * 7days/week * 50 weeks/year = ) 3500 work-commute
miles a year + 500 non-work/vacation miles a year, for a total of 
4000 taxable miles a year.

Making up a calculation formula scenario, using:
-my heavy-weight Blazer as a worst-case EV example
-using GM's pish e-range of 40 miles for the annual mileage calculation
40 miles a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, + 0 vacation e-miles 
because it would run on fuel while on vacation (40*5*50 =) for a total
of 10000 taxable miles a year , and 
-lazy-legislators targeting $100 annually

Working backwards ...
Definitions: where factor x is used in calculating the EV road-tax

$100 = x * (5000lbs * 10000 miles)
x = $100/((5000lbs * 10000 miles))
x=$100/(.5)
x=$50

Using that EV tax formula of (EV weight in lbs * annual miles) * $50
gives the amount of road-tax an EV would annually pay. nEVs, lEVs, 
light weight EVs would pay less, lead-sleds like mine would pay $100
and commercial e-trucks and the like would pay for the damage they 
are doing to the roads. 

Now see, that formula was not so hard to come up with. Plus if you
think it needs tweaking/adjusting it is easy to do too. 

Isn't High School math fun? 
(lazy-legislators probably say their brains hurt right now)



{brucedp.150m.com}
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 19 Feb 2011 at 14:56, brucedp5 wrote:
> 
> > what EV tax is implemented in WA, will likely be copied by legislators
> > in other states.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0530, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Willie wrote:
> >I will stipulate that an EV COULD accumulate miles at that rate. But,
> DO they? Please offer up your experience. How many miles per year have
> YOU put on an EV? For how many years?
> 
> Hi Willie,
> I will offer that anecdotal stories do not prove anything,
> so I think it would be best to extract data from the
> EV Album about the real and operational (and regularly
> updated) Evs, to get a better idea, but here is my story anyway:

Extracting the information from evablum sounds like a great idea. I 
don't believe it is practical to do it manually though. Not even a 
small sample. 
1) many people do not enter miles
2) many people do not update regularly
3) many are not highway capable cars and therefor can not accumulate 
many miles
4) few people give a time frame for their mileage

A small sample indicates fewer than 10% of entries have useful mileage 
information.

Someone, more talented than me, could probably write a script to 
extract data:
Loop on entry #, 1 to everhowmanythereare
access data
if no mileage, next
if not updated in last 12 months, next
if top speed less than 50 mph, next
record entry #

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 160 days 16 hours 04 minutes

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My commute is about 5 miles each way, for a total of 10 miles. I tend to
drive the Citicar when it isn't raining, or have somewhere else to drive
after work. Some months see about 300 miles/month, and others about 100. 
So far In February it has been somewhat rainy; the total for this month is
87 miles.

Since I've owned the Citicar, I've averaged a bit over 1,500 miles a year. 
If I lived in Washington, that would make my tax about 6.6 cents a mile -
several times what I pay in electricity!

Tom - evalbum.com/1196
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes... EVs get out of the emissions costs, which partially offsets the
EV fee, if it's implemented. Here in Colorado, I have a diesel truck
that costs $120/year for emissions ($60 for the test, $60ish to swap
the nonstudded tires onto it for a day because they won't test it with
studded tires, but I use it mostly in the winter so I would leave the
studded tires on all the time if it werent for e-testing) for a truck
that gets about 1000 miles per year or less of use. The 60 mile round
trip drive to the e-test place probably significantly increases
emissions itself.....

Z



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 19 Feb 2011 at 14:56, brucedp5 wrote:
> >
> >> what EV tax is implemented in WA, will likely be copied by legislators
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

After I posted, I saw my calculations and the formula were not what I
intended, so I fixed them. To save bandwidth I am not going to re-post
them, but if you are interested, see the correction at
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-Washington-State-FLAT-EV-Tax-tt3242958.html#a3314720

{brucedp.150m.com}
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Letters to the Editor: Taxing electric cars

http://tdn.com/news/opinion/article_35985fac-3adc-11e0-a296-001cc4c002e0.html
Letters: Taxing electric cars Feb 20 2011
Feb. 20 Letters to the Editor Taxing electric cars

Certainly on the surface it would appear taxing electric cars would 
be a fair thing to do. At this point, however, we may be paying more 
to implement such a program than we would be taking in. I would 
suggest we watch this situation a bit. How would you suggest we tax 
out-of-state electric vehicles? Eventually like we tax gasoline, we 
need to tax the amount of charge. A one time per year tax of $100 is 
neither fair nor does it tax the user for his amount of road use. We 
may conclude that being fair needs to be balanced with the cost of 
implementation. We may also remember that pollution-free vehicles 
benefit us all and we need to upgrade our hydro power generating 
facilities as well as fix our roads.

I am concerned about the amount of time our representatives are 
spending on this subject when other items with much greater impact 
are not being aired. As things currently are, we all have to watch 
how we allocate our resources, politicians must consider this as well.

Is the Daily News going to encourage newspaper delivery by electric 
vehicle?

Hugh Coleman
Kelso
...
[Copyright 2011 The Daily News Online. All rights reserved.]





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My real-world data is roughly 3300 miles/year, total for the life of the 
conversion (since 1994) of 45-50K miles. The EV is a modified 
ElectroAutomotive VoltsRabbit (primarily upgraded controller (Curtis 
1221B -> 1231C), added RUSSCO heater, Zivan K2 charger). 96V pack of 6V 
flooded lead acid.

As to the main point of my posting, I decided to send emails to the five 
Washington state senators sponsoring the bill (SB5251 - Imposing an 
additional vehicle license fee on electric vehicles). The entry URL for 
this is http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5251#documents 
(tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/4ppwdzf). It appears that the bill has 
been modified today, but not to the extent that removes the $100 flat tax.

I also sent a version of my letter to the Olympia, WA local newspaper, 
The Olympian (http://www.theolympian.com). Go to the OPINION tab and 
then Editorials. The website took my letter and spit out a message that 
the process was completed or somesuch, but there is a stated limit of 
250 words that I almost certainly exceeded, so who knows what will happen.

In any EVent, my submission to the state senators is between the lines 
below.

Chuck

--------------------------------------
Greetings:

I have become aware through the EV Discussion List 
(http://evdl.org/archive/index.html, thread "The Washington State FLAT 
EV Tax") of a proposal (SB5251) to tax EVs $100 yearly at registration 
time. This proposal seems to conflict with the national priority of 
encouraging clean cars such as EVs, which reduce air pollution, reduce 
our dependency on foreign oil, and can be powered with renewable energy. 
Washington State's proposal may well serve as an example for other 
revenue-hungry states searching for ways to keep their crumbling road 
infrastructure intact, and I believe the proposal is a bad idea.

While the flat tax is simple to implement, it is like trying to thread a 
needle with a sledge hammer. For those owners of small light EVs and/or 
low-mileage travelled with their EVs, a flat tax of $100 yearly is 
onerous and a disincentive to EV ownership. In my own case, a 
conversion of a (sub)compact car done in 1994 that travels about 3300 
miles/year, and with a yearly California DMV registration fee of 
approximately $60, it would nearly triple my DMV. While it most likely 
would not persuade me to drop the EV scene, it would be one more ***** 
in the process, and there is a limit.

I think it would be better to follow the paradigm set of refueling gas 
and diesel vehicles. Pay the road tax at the pump. In the case of EVs, 
the pump is the electrical outlet. The electricity in my case is 
supplied by Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E). PG&E requires charging of 
EVs to be on the E-9 Time-of-Use (TOU) rate, although since the EV count 
has been so low, I don't think they have been strongly enforcing that 
requirement. At any rate, if EVs become more prevalent, I suspect the 
requirements will be firmed up. As to E-9, I would think a line item 
for road use tax could be added. For every kwh I use to charge my EV, a 
small amount would go to pay for my use of the road infrastructure.

Another way to charge one's EV will be through the public charging 
infrastructure. As that infrastructure grows, some consideration will 
need to be given as to how to charge a road use tax. While I am not up 
on how the electrical utilities such as PG&E charge for electricity used 
in the public charging infrastructure, I would imagine that eventually 
(if not already) there will be a special E-9-type rate for this, through 
which the road tax could be charged.

Regards,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
--------------------------------------

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sure I've mentioned it before but my real world mileage is about 12,000
miles per year, for the last 5 or 6 years (on the same Nicad battery pack).


Since we got a lithium powered car with longer range, that has also done
about 14,000 miles in its first year.

Cheers
Evan
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