# [EVDL] mounting Yellow Tops sideways



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The notes that come with Group 31 Optima Yellow Tops suggest that they
can be mounted in any orientation. To make them fit into my EV
comfortably I would like to mount a few of them sideways.

As this is a bit different from most EVs I would just like to check: 

1/ Can anyone please confirm that mounting Yellow Tops sideways is OK?

2/ Is anyone out there actually using Yellow Tops mounted sideways in
their EV?

Thanks,

David



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Rowe wrote:
> 
> > 1/ Can anyone please confirm that mounting Yellow Tops sideways is OK?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Dave,

While I do not use Yellow Tops, I can confirm that mounting
AGM batteries on their sides work well, not only in mine
but also in other's EVs.
The best way to mount AGMs is to mount it with the plates horizontal
so that the heavier fluid does not migrate to the bottom.
There is one exception to this rule, Lee posted some time ago
about a battery type that has its separators not all the way
to the top. I cannot recall if this was the Yellow Top, so
please search for his post in the archives.

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Rowe
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] mounting Yellow Tops sideways

The notes that come with Group 31 Optima Yellow Tops suggest that they can be mounted in any orientation. To make them fit into my EV comfortably I would like to mount a few of them sideways.

As this is a bit different from most EVs I would just like to check: 

1/ Can anyone please confirm that mounting Yellow Tops sideways is OK?

2/ Is anyone out there actually using Yellow Tops mounted sideways in their EV?

Thanks,

David



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David

I did a lot of research on this topic based on written information provided 
from battery manufacturers. Maybe someone can explain why my concerns are not 
an issue. I would like to know why this would be wrong. 

Many if not all battery manufacturers will tell you their batteries can be 
used in any position but upside down. What I found troubling is quite a few 
said there would be a 10 percent loss. I came to the conclusion that this was 
addressed by enough battery manufacturers that it is not a one brand problem. 
It is a universal problem that is shared by all AGM batteries. 

Another concern it seemed to me most manufacturers are not considering that 
some consumers might be putting some on their side and others standing up 
then charging them in series. 

This 10 percent loss was stated enough to consider some potential problems. 
Not having all the batteries on their sides might be a building a pack that 
is out of balance and could never be balanced even with a battery balancer. 
The batteries on there sides would always provide less capacity. In effect this 
could be like cycling a pack with batteries of different sizes. If one did 
this you would expect them to get out of balance and cause the whole pack to 
fail earlier . I am not sure which group would last longer the under charged 
or over charged and it would not matter. Under charging some batteries or 
over charging others both are going to fail early in the long run. 

If you had a BMS with the ability to charge only each battery as needed. 
Even then it is not going to make the batteries have the same capacity only that 
they would all be equally charged. A deeper discharge would occur to the 
batteries placed on their sides then the ones standing upright.

Placing them all on their sides would eliminate the differences between 
batteries. Then you would have up to a 10 percent loss from the entire pack. 
However if there is a balance problem with mixing them this could be better in 
the long run.

It is common knowledge that keeping AGM batteries balanced is critical if 
you expect maximum service value. If one must mount them on there side. From 
what I read you would have to accept the cost of the 10% loss a price that must 
be paid is the minimum loss for this option. If this is the only loss 
incurred putting modules on their side but I doubt it is if you mix them.

I do not feel a 10 percent loss could not be taken from some batteries and 
not others in a string without causing problem. I have not tested this theory 
but it sure seems to me that this would happen. When some modules in series 
are going to have 10 percent less capacity than others in the pack. How could 
charging in series not be a problem? Seems to me this would absolutely 
require individual battery charging.

Anyone see any flaws in this logic?

Don Blazer

Subject: [EVDL] mounting Yellow Tops sideways

The notes that come with Group 31 Optima Yellow Tops suggest that they can 
be mounted in any orientation. To make them fit into my EV comfortably I 
would like to mount a few of them sideways.

As this is a bit different from most EVs I would just like to check: 

1/ Can anyone please confirm that mounting Yellow Tops sideways is OK?

2/ Is anyone out there actually using Yellow Tops mounted sideways in their 
EV?

Thanks,

David




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > I did a lot of research on this topic based on written
> > information provided from battery manufacturers.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > Many if not all battery manufacturers will tell you their batteries
> > can be used in any position but upside down. What I found troubling
> > is quite a few said there would be a 10 percent loss. I came to the
> ...


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