# College project: 1967 triumph spitfire



## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

Gotta love the Spitfire! It's a pleasure to convert.

You can check out my progress on a 1978 Spitfire at http://78electricspitfire.blogspot.com

Or Bottomfeeder's Spitfire at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/sparkfire-bottomfeeders-build-21355.html

Component selection look good. Just one comment get the 120V Quick Charger, not the 144V  Also, I found the Quick Charger pretty cheap from http://02a27d4.netsolstores.com/onboardselect-a-charge.aspx before finally going with Lithiums.

Good luck!


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Oops, put down the specs from the dc/dc converter (120-144 volts) instead of the charger. It is 120 volts and we actually got all of the main parts from Cloud Electric as they were reasonably priced and got everything including the motor shipped within 7 days of the order date. 

Thanks for the links and I assume you put all of your batteries in the trunk? We are planning to do 4 in the back + charger, and 6 in the front, along with everything else. Also, do you have the motor on top of the cross member or did you move that forward? I've seen builds done both ways for Spitfires and we were going to wait to see how much the trans angles after getting the motor in this Saturday. 

thanks, 

-Keith


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> Oops, put down the specs from the dc/dc converter (120-144 volts) instead of the charger. It is 120 volts and we actually got all of the main parts from Cloud Electric as they were reasonably priced and got everything including the motor shipped within 7 days of the order date.
> 
> Thanks for the links and I assume you put all of your batteries in the trunk? We are planning to do 4 in the back + charger, and 6 in the front, along with everything else. Also, do you have the motor on top of the cross member or did you move that forward? I've seen builds done both ways for Spitfires and we were going to wait to see how much the trans angles after getting the motor in this Saturday.
> 
> ...


I purchased quite a few of my components from Cloud Electric as well. Actually I'm thinking I can fit all the Lithiums under the hood forward of the motor (where the radiator used to be). For Lead you can see how Bottomfeeder did his battery layout.

I put my motor on top of the cross member, but it is only a 6.7". Bottomfeeder has a 9" motor and it looks like his motor is mounted above the cross member as well - but I'd ask him to confirm that.


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

Bottomfeeder has some excellent pictures of his car here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/43


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

you guys should be able to put a bolt in Spitfire kit together at this point! You have your own little subcategory going.


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> you guys should be able to put a bolt in Spitfire kit together at this point! You have your own little subcategory going.


Probably could.  Hmm... is there a large enough market out there for that...


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> He would give his car and 8k,


good deal for him.... that budget will be tight, and no pay for labor!
Your basic specs look good, and I'd guess that you will exceed goals for both speed and range with 10 x 12v. You MIGHT want to take a look at the us battery 12v sweeper batteries, which are a little bigger and a little more ahr than most. http://www.usbattery.com/usb_us12vxc.html

I also did not see mention of how you are planning to couple the motor/transmission. You made reference to building your own adaptor plate, but no mention of whether you are going with clutched/clutchless coupling, doing it yourself, or considering buying a plate/adaptor from CanEV.com or one of the other places that pre-fab adaptors.

Only other thing that jumped out at me was that you might want to consider a plastic panel/box for components rather than a massive 1/2 plate of AL. I had great luck with the 1/4" polypro sheeting I used for battery boxes as well. For controller heatsink you'll get much better dissipation with fins than a massive plate... But you know than having survived Heat Transfer class. I found a reasonable source for heatsink stock at http://heatsinkusa.com/asfdas.html

Dan - '83 BSME grad from Cu Boulder, go Buffs


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Haha yes, a very good deal for him. The budget is most likely going to be around $8500 since we are having to repair a good amount of stuff on the car. The car has been sitting for many years (decade plus), so we are doing a complete brake overhaul and having to redo the wiring since it was so corroded and burnt from the previous owner. 

I will definitely take a look at those batteries but will most likely stick with the Trojan's since we can find them local and at pretty fair price. But it never hurts to explore options.

For the motor/trans we aren't going to use the original clutch disc but just stick it in 3rd or 4th and go. We just used the stock clutch plate welded up to a collar to make a quick adapter. Got a large piece (22 x 43 x .5") for a great price ($100) to bolt up the trans to the motor. The aluminum will also be used for the other end of the motor support and the heat sink. For the heat sink we are just going to mill out some fins from a plate, but if that doesn't work out we will just buy a pre-done heat sink from the place you listed. 

The aluminum will only be used for the adapter, motor support and heat sink. The the EV components will be in a fully enclosed thin sheet metal box (like a UL power coated box) most likely. The battery trays are being made out of 1/8" thick 1" angled steel, and then just have some square tubing to support them when needed. 

Thanks for all the great help and resources. This being my first EV I have a lot to learn so any help is greatly appreciated. Below are some pics of today's work for the motor side of things.

link to build:
http://stefanelsener.googlepages.com/ev

Pics:


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> For the motor/trans we aren't going to use the original clutch disc but just stick it in 3rd or 4th and go. We just used the stock clutch plate welded up to a collar to make a quick adapter.


lots of people go clutchless, it just makes it a little slow between gears because there is no compression to slow the motor when upshifting, so you have to wait about 10 seconds between gears for them to sync. You'll be fine starting in 2nd most of the time, but want 1st for the uphill starts or when you're feeling racey! I was glad to see you left one end splined so there will be a little give for non-concentricity. I hope you used two allen bolts per hole with loctite and drilled set points for that coupler to the motor shaft! Did you spin the motor w/ 12v yet? Its good to check for transmission/alignment/vibration issues while you have easy access.




2fast4u said:


> For the heat sink we are just going to use mill out some fins from a plate,


that'll work! Most people don't have access to a mill....




2fast4u said:


> The the EV components will be in a fully enclosed thin sheet metal box (like a UL power coated box) most likely.


The metal boxes are surprisingly heavy. The fiberglass ones are nice, but not easy to find deep enough to hold the taller components and pretty expensive. Some are here:
http://www.adproductsco.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=5 But I ended up fabricating my own with left over polypro sheeting I used for battery boxes and added a clear lid for show and tell. The battery racks have edges with 1/8" angle iron, and lined with 1/4" polypro. Take a look at http://envirokarma.org/ev/11.Components.shtml


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

We just used one set screw that was on the key way. The coupler that we used had two, but we ended up having to shorten it and that eliminated one of them. It would probably be good to take it out and add one on the shaft with a set point. We did use loctite all over though, haha.

Now that you mention I'm sure I can find a plastic box at least to save some weight. 

No, we didn't have a chance yet to spin the motor with 12 volts and hopefully this Wednesday we can. Since we only meet once a week things go kinda slow and we didn't get the motor in until 11pm last night. 

Thanks again for all the help!

-Keith


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

sure...

by the way, I just remembered one little thing that had me sidetracked for a while. If you are installing an electric vacuum pump with switch/reservoir for power brakes, you PROBABLY need to be aware that the max vacuum the pump can draw is de-rated for higher altitudes. The Gast pumps for instance lose about 1 in-hg per thousand ft of elevation. So in Boulder you'll have to set off limit to maybe -15 in-hg because it just never will get to -20. In santa fe I had to set mine to -13 so it wouldn't run and run trying to get that last little bit.


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

We are lucky and and the car does't have power brakes so need to worry. But will keep that in mind for future ev's!

Here is a diagram for the motor that i was thinking..

[

And got the car's 12 volt system rewired yesterday..


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

nice diagram! you might wanna add in your charger, charger interlock, and inertia switch as it will help you plan which cables to insert extra feed wires as you crimp on the lugs to the traction pack cables. 

one other minor detail I found useful in the schematics I got was the thickness of lines reminding me what gauge wires to use as I went.....

with a convertible I am assuming you are not bothering with a heater....


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

I don't think we are going to set it up with an inertia switch, but will have a charger relay inline some where. No heater either  Just a nice simple ev, haha. Here are some pics from today.

Didn't get very far on battery trays:


Working on motor support (The piece will put the motor in center, just doesn't look like it in this pic)


Pot box:



Nice and clean top view:


12 volt battery tie down made:


Another pot box view:


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> I don't think we are going to set it up with an inertia switch, but will have a charger relay inline some where.


Safety-wise I think an inertia switch is more important than a charger interlock... its super easy to add; just interrupts your keyed 12v power to main contactor. Available from KTA-ev.com and others.... The inertia switch is something that the Dept. of Motor Vehicle guys like to see as it makes Emergency personel responding to an accident feel safer to know that chances are the circuit is open. They are not REQUIRED, but maybe should be in future registration inspections for an electric vehicle.

Also plan on adding a choke-cable manual pull to your circuit breaker as a mechanical fail-safe in case main contactor welds itself together. In combo with the big fuse in the traction pack, you are triple safe, but thats a good thing.


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Yup, definitely going to have the choke cable pull the circuit breaker. The charger interlock and inertia switch will be added later also. Spent another day working on the car and got some more stuff done. After ten years the car now has working brakes, motor fully supported, and starting to get battery boxes done as well most of the small wiring is completed except the monitoring system and large battery cables. 

Question: How close can the battery terminals get to metal? Is an inch okay and should they be wrapped in rubber or something to make a barrier? Thanks and pics below!!

Top/Side view and not the heat sink we will be using:


Hmm....:


Old vs New:


Me on the right:


Motor support:


Going with something like this:


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It looks like you're moving right along! Congratulations on the choice of car, you won't be disappointed.

Have you decided where to put the batteries? I built a frame to hold 4 of the batteries over the motor. I'm not sure if it was the best choice, but that's what I did.

I also found that I didn't need the transmission at all. 4th gear is adequately fast for me. And it still doesn't pull more than 200 Amps from a stop. Although I have the slightly beefier 9" motor.

I haven't been following along, because I've been busy with other things lately, but I'm hoping to get back into my EV hobby more in the upcoming weeks. Feel free to ask Spit specific questions.


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Thanks, and it is a good car overall. 

For the batteries we are putting 4 in the back, 2 far in the font of the rack and pinion, and 4 over the motor. Where did you put all of your components such as the contactor, breaker, fuse, and shunt?

We have a good amount of hills but we will still most likely use 4th for majority of driving. 

Thanks!

-Keith


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I put the fuse in the trunk, so electrically it lies between battery number 4 and 5. If the fuse blows, I'll have a 48V and a 72V pack, instead of a big 120V pack. Might be slightly safer in an accident?

The contactors and breaker I put on a plexiglas (not recommended in general) sheet in the front of the car, behind the left headlight, basically. That's where I had my room. I will put my DC/DC converter on the firewall shelf and the controller will be in front of the 4 batteries over the motor.

I need to take a few more photos and upload them to show you what I've got in mind. But, I likely won't get to it until the weekend.

I'm enjoying following your progress.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> Question: How close can the battery terminals get to metal? Is an inch okay and should they be wrapped in rubber or something to make a barrier?


If you put the full rubber hoods over all battery terminals as you crimp on lugs you can go within an inch of racking, frame, hood, etc, and not worry.... remember that none of the high-voltage is grounded to the frame anyway, so there is little likelyhood of an arc unless you have BOTH pos and neg exposed too close to frame somewhere. The hoods on ALL terminals will protect you from accidental dropping of tools across terminals, etc. DO review cable routes to make sure that potential rub spots are held away from frame, encased in protective cover, etc.

I found that irrigation hose slips over 2/0 welding cable with a little ezglide, so I installed in a couple spots that could potentially wear from vibration.

I have some notes and such at http://envirokarma.org/ev/10.BattCables.shtml
and would advise that you buy or rent big crimpers rather than hammer-swedge the lugs...
and a series of pictures with some notes beginning w http://envirokarma.org/ev/gallery/090208_conduit15.complete.htm


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Makes sense, and will defiantly get some rubber booties. Waiting for the crimper and the copper flat plate to come in the mail, so got working on some other things. Here are some pics...


Start of some racks:


PakTrakr In:


Looks stock:


Two Racks done (ish):


Waiting for copper and a top to be made:


Big wire Layout:



Thanks!
-Keith


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Got some more work done the other day. Hope to have the car moving by tomorrow, then take a week or two to finish up the odds and ends. 

Still need to mount up the fuse/break panel, make the two runs under the car (encased in protective shielding) and hook up the paktrakr and charger... Here are some pics 

Front:


'Almost' Compressed:


Need to upgrade?:


These ain't 20's though:


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I had to upgrade my springs in the front, and put adjustable air shocks in the rear. But, it all depends on the size of your batteries. Let me know if you need some help doing that stuff.

Have you spun the motor yet?


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

I was thinking of the gt6 springs as they are a bit taller and have a higher spring rate. Will do some quick numbers to see what exactly we need later. Where did you buy the rear air shocks?

We have 6 x 80 lbs batteries in the front = 480 lbs
and 4 x 80 lbs batteries in back = 320 lbs

Tomorrow, motor will get spun (fingers crossed)!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

The GT6 springs might be correct for you, as yours doesn't look as low as mine was. I ended up buying 2.5" ID springs but somehow I got messed up in my calculation of the proper height/spring rate. I built some aluminum spacers that will work, but I might change them out later. As it is, I am pleased with my suspension so far. The car handles bumps better than most cars, really. It might have something to do with the increased weight? Ha!

I bought air springs for a Corvette: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1080/airshockinfo.html

I had to press out the bushings to get them to fit, but it wasn't too difficult once I figured it out how to do it with a C-clamp.

Now I can pump up the rear shocks to just the right height. But, one needs to roll the car back and forth between settings to let the car settle into it's new position.

Good luck!


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Sweet, we might go with a stiffer spring as the gt6 spring will only raise it 2.5 to 4 inches (depending on how worn the front springs are) from where it sits as right now.

Update:
Got rest of components installed except our fuse/break box needs to be mounted and covered. The only thing we ran into is that the motor is spinning the wrong way. So we have 4 gears for reverse and one forward. Anyways, I don't understand how the motor works and don't know exactly how to reverse it. Also, We have the Adc 8" motor, and I've read that most motors are advance and spinning them backwards is bad for efficiency and the brushes. But to get it to spin backwards I understand we wire it as such:

B+ to A2 (motor)
M- to S1
Jumper A1 and S2


Where does A2 on the controller connect to and can someone make sure that the above is correct to get the motor spin in the opposite direction?

Right now it is wired as:
B+ to A1
M- to S2
A2 to A2
Jumped A2 and S1

THANKS and pics below!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> The only thing we ran into is that the motor is spinning the wrong way.


Honda motors go the 'wrong' way too... I think it is just a matter of changing the advance. Hopefully somebody that converted a Honda will chime in, or you could start another thread asking this specific question. Failing that, contact the people at kts-ev.com or one of the other dealers to ask how to reverse....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

also... those batteries behind the seats look like they are going to be a huge pain to inspect and water! does the battery tray slide out?


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Going to make some calls tomorrow and see what I come up with. As for the two batteries, the owner wanted the batteries in a specific orientation. We left enough slack for the two batteries that they could be pulled out without having to disconnect, but with the resources we had available to us it was the best we could do.


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Got looking into it further, understanding more about the motor. The diagram that we were going off of that was from a manual for the Curtis was for direct drive and CW rotation. Hooked it up for CCW rotation and removed the A2 to A2 connection since it is only for braking with the motor, and now everything is spinning the way it should be. 

But, a couple more days working on it and it should be complete. Need to redo the heat sink with fins and fans, tie down batteries, and redo some of the interior and maybe a paint job for the exterior. Here are a couple more pics..


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Update:

Showed the owner today the car and he was happy quite with it. Will be making an order very soon to spice up the car's cosmetics interior and exterior. We are planning to do something with the paint, but don't know yet for sure (maybe maaco?). I'm picking up the rear air shocks tomorrow and will install them shortly to give the rear a boost. Late this week the few of us are meeting again to work on the car but, here are some pics of the heat sink waiting to be installed and a short video of one of the first test drives.

-Keith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCJmRkbbLGM



















How wire was ran:


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

NICE!
I am considering full body vinyl wrap instead of paint... no priming, 'fills' small scratches, and all the complex graphics you want for the same price!


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Going to race track, I see a lot more of these wraps. They are getting good enough vinyl now that you can hardly even tell it's not a real paint job. It is a great way to make an ev even more unique. We have to get the car out of the lab pretty soon and just don't have the time to fix all the rust, so we will just spend a couple $100 to paint/primer it ourselves. This way we can show off our ev conversion and have the car look a little better without having to spend a lot of hrs and $$ for a true quality paint job.


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Small update:

Got the rear lifted up a bit. Fronts will have to wait for a week for parts. Took a little less than an hr to press out bushing and remove/install new shocks. The back rides a lot nicer now though 

Before:



















After:


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Update:

Gone on a couple of small trips with the ev so far. One at 15, and the other at 18 miles. Going smooth so far and just taking it real easy on the amps, and havent gone below 30 percent discharge. Things are going pretty slow now since its just down to 2 or 3 of us working on once or twice a week for a few hours. Going to get new shocks/springs and paint it next week however. Here are some new pics and youtube vids:

vid 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU-rSImygpc

vid 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p4mYyD309I

Pics:

Tunnel:









Heat Sink:









Tie Downs:









Forgot a notch and front support is waiting for hardware:


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Damn them 'lectric cars're quiet!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Congratulations guys! It's always great to see another EV on the road. Especially another Spit! Now you just need to get that paint job and the chrome sparkling!


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Update: Got dc/dc converter installed, paktrakr fixed with four ferrite rings, new tires, misc things cleaned up, and...

3 guys, 1 day and paint supplies turns this....














































into this..


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

beauty!
how about a couple shots under the hood from same angles as 'before' ??!


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Yup, good idea. Below are pics of under the hood. Showed the owner today the car, he was really happy with it (should be, labor was free). Did some top speed testing. Got it to 75 mph with plenty more in it. It was only at 300 amps and voltage drop was at 116 volts. Maybe we can get a draft and a downhill run next time  . Range test will occur this week sometime but we are hoping around 40 miles until 50% Dod. Thanks for all the help with the build though!!

Pics:

Before:









After:









Before:









After:









Before:









After:









Before:









After:


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Misc after:


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Looks great! Very impressive turnaround. I'm glad to hear that everything is working well.

Any plans of doing a conversion for yourself?


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

I would love to do my own conversion sometime in the future when I'm not taking out loans to pay for school  Maybe go all out with an ac and lithium battery set up. But, below is a quick video shot of us doing a small pull on the highway. (This isn't the run we got to 75 mph. And no, I'm not flipping off the camera)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7tnHpxaKwE


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Update: Made the local news... 

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-electric-car-072809,0,5906080.story

Range test is still yet to fully come.

-Keith


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

2fast4u said:


> Update: Made the local news...
> 
> http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-electric-car-072809,0,5906080.story
> 
> ...


super coverage! I wonder if it will 'spark' a little interest in the front range?! I dunno about them calling the Spit a 'gas guzzler from the 60s though...'


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I think Spits get about 35 mpg, or thereabouts. Not too shabby. But great work getting your project on the little screen!


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