# Update LiFePo4 Suppliers list



## lnpurnell (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi,

I am considering starting up my own EV conversion business and I have been doing some background research on supply chains and Manufacturers (fun, I know!)

The one issue I am getting mixed results on is the news about currently Lithium battery manufacturers. I know the main players in this field are:

- Calb
- Thundersky
- Sinopoly
- Winston
- GBS
- A123 (B456)
- Headway

What are the current prices per Ah for these manufacturers?
What quantities of batteries are they producing per year? (I want to see if they will be around if I need their warranty)
What is the quality history like of their cells?
Have any of these gone bankrupt and are they just selling left over stock?

Thanks!

Leigh


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## lnpurnell (Sep 27, 2012)

I have seen Sinopoly cells on sale for $1.10 per AH and they should be priced in the UK for around £1 per AH. 

I hear Balqon are selling cells for $.95 per AH but I have heard that that have a dubious history and they just don't sound trustworthy at present.

Does anyone know what the state of Sinopoly is at the moment? On their website it looks like they have applied for public offering on the HK stock exhange but have they had loads of trouble in the past. How many cells do they make a year? etc?

It is a shame the wiki is not kept up to date so novices like me dont have to keep asking the same question. Is anyone currently working on it?

Thanks,

Leigh


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

lnpurnell said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am considering starting up my own EV conversion business and I have been doing some background research on supply chains and Manufacturers (fun, I know!)
> 
> ...


You may want to go back further and dig a little deeper............
Winston is a bankrupt China holding and or there about......

A123 was an America company that you and I (taxypayers) have pay alot for and has now gone bust and now own by China............aka wanxang B456 corp name I think..........although alot of ebay/and other sellers use the A123 tradename........

GBS
Sinoply
Calb 

These are correct ......If you are planning a purchase I would stay with domestic supply. Otherwise you may have issues........................


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## lnpurnell (Sep 27, 2012)

I have just had an update from Winston Battery with a quote and lead time for batteries with a 1 year battery warranty. 

I am guessing that these are left over stock from the bankruptcy then so I should take the warranty with a pinch of salt. :-S

Leigh


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## BentMike (Oct 20, 2013)

I just got a quote on Alibaba for CALB LFP cells:

Here is enclosed the specification of CA40FI, pls find it.
The FOB price of 17pieces CA40FI cells is around 870USD.
Delivery time 35days.
Before the freight cost, pls let me know your shipping address.

That comes to $51.18 per cell. Mostly I see them for $58 or $59. 

with shipping cost, and shipping time, and your patience, YMMV.

I have not heard yet about the shipping cost to my location.


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## BentMike (Oct 20, 2013)

replying to texascotton,

I spoke to a professor here at NC State (FREEDM Center http://www.freedm.ncsu.edu/ ) who has a Li cell cycle tester, has reason to stay up on this topic, and has access to manufacturers (and access to Mandarin speaking colleagues)...he recommends CALB and Thundersky for LFP cells.

I hope to visit next week for a tour.

They can life cycle test cells which is something we all cannot really consider. He called the equipment ARBIN testers (means nothing to me). They have a variable load comprised of batteries and capacitors. They can pull the cells up and down on a particular profile and do it fast. I am curious and hoping to learn much.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

BentMike said:


> I just got a quote on Alibaba for CALB LFP cells:
> 
> Here is enclosed the specification of CA40FI, pls find it.
> The FOB price of 17pieces CA40FI cells is around 870USD.
> ...


OUCH!

Why dont you just go Direct to CALB or Sinopoly?

CALB sell direct at $1.18/AH for small orders. Sinopoly are a bit cheaper.


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## BentMike (Oct 20, 2013)

I would be happy to if I know who to contact. Care to share?

$1.18 comes to $802. Versus $870. That could easily disappear in shipping.

Can anyone comment on how to manage shipping from PRC?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

BentMike said:


> I would be happy to if I know who to contact. Care to share?
> 
> $1.18 comes to $802. Versus $870. That could easily disappear in shipping.
> 
> Can anyone comment on how to manage shipping from PRC?


Just go direct to either manufacturer through their respective websites. They will be more than happy to sell to you direct.

Find an import broker you can trust, afraid I cant help with US brokers/agents.

Cheers,

Mike


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## BentMike (Oct 20, 2013)

Skooler, 

Yes, I see, you are in the UK.

So then Alibaba (which has been a good marketplace for me so far) provides me someone to manage that for $68, and I am even. 


"Find an import broker you can trust, afraid I cant help with US brokers/agents."

Anyone else have any good references, stories, routine, to manage shipping to the US? Or will CALB do it?


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Have you seen this link for Calib Battery

http://www.calibpower.com/



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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Is there a reason why the calibpower site still shows the CALB SE Blue cells and not the newer and more powerful white CA cells? Are they still selling the blue cells? I know at EVCCON 2012 that Keegan was briefly there and the CALB table had the white cells. I personally would prefer the white cells and also to not pay Jack's excessive markup since calibpower seems to be a reliable source for cells.


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## lnpurnell (Sep 27, 2012)

So I have contacted the main manufacturers of the cells and this is what I have had back so far:

Sinopoly Battery 

Thanks for interested in our battery product.

We do have 60Ah (A). 60Ah(B) is not available anymore. The price is the same between these two battery models.

The price for 15pcs x 60Ah (A) is at USD 1.30/Ah, total is USD 1,170

(They did note to me that the $1.30/Ah Price was for such a small amount)

Calb 

CA Series Accumulated Purchase (Ah) Price (USD/Ah, FOB China)
Sample 1.22
Q ≤ 100,000 1.2
100,000 < Q ≤ 300,000 1.17
300,000 < Q ≤ 500,000 1.14
500,000 < Q ≤ 1 million 1.11
Q > 1 million 1.08

SE Series Accumulated Purchase (Ah) Price (USD/Ah, FOB China)
Sample 1.2
Q ≤ 100,000 1.18
100,000 < Q ≤ 300,000 1.15
300,000 < Q ≤ 500,000 1.12
500,000 < Q ≤ 1 million 1.09
Q > 1 million 1.06

GBS

For sample and small order,the fob price is USD1.20/AH,so that the fob price of:

GBS-LFP40AH is USD48.00/PC,
GBS-LFP60AH is USD72.00/PC,
and GBS-LFP100AH is USD120.00/PC. 

The payment is T/T in advance.

Winston Battery

Price: EXW USD 1.10/AMH,
Payment term:100% pay in advance,
Lead time: 45 days after receiving payments(but it's able to deliver in 10 days if there is stock) 
Warranty: 1 year.


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I am just a bit concerned on Winston Battery as they have had legal and financial issue recently and I cannot guarantee the warranty.

So what do you guys think? Are these reasonable prices? 

For UK DIY'ers do you have a shipper and/ or freight forwarder that you use?

Leigh


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

lnpurnell said:


> For UK DIY'ers do you have a shipper and/ or freight forwarder that you use?
> 
> Leigh


Hi Leigh,

Interesting on the 60AH cells

I have the process for UK import pretty much nailed down with Sinopoly now.

It tends to work out at just over £1/AH after all of the fees, shipping, duty, taxes etc.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Roderick (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi, I've been looking for a good supplier but its very difficult to find one in Japan(I dont know anyone building Ev in japan). 
Does anyone know any supplier for the batteries? 
(I assume I'll end up importing from China or Australia? 

PS:sorry if this is off topic! 

thanks


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## rtz (Jul 3, 2013)

I don't know how they can be had any cheaper than direct from China. Anyone else is a middle man(extra money) and they paid for the shipping to them, plus add more for shipping to you.

http://en.calb.cn/ 

The price is totally negotiable. So factor in shipping(included or not) and also make an offer at .80 cents /Ah. If they want to move out some batteries; they will let them go at that.

I'm sure there is some magic number that will cause a lot more builds to happen due to reduced battery costs. Is it .50 or .75?

Also too, consider a small light(cheap) pack just to get the car rolling and driving today. So what if it only has "20 miles" range. That pack is going to be tiny and light! 

Better batteries are always around the corner. Build a big pack in the future with different batteries or the same at way reduced costs. But don't let the cost of a pack prevent a conversion from being done.


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## BentMike (Oct 20, 2013)

I think you can do fine buying from China. For large format, CALB cells are good. 

LiFePO4 is not a secret recipe so there are other manufacturers. For example ECC in Germany. But the lower labor costs are in China so less expensive cells. It is sort of the wild west, a little lawless and many small operators. 

I have learned a lot watching EVTV.com videos. The Youtube channel for EVTV is useful. IF you were in the US I would suggest going through someone like EVTV, the per cell cost is not bad, and that saves us some expensive shipping cost. But since you are in Japan, that may be better for you.

I bought a small pack on Alibaba and that went well. Nominal 48V (16 "cells") 20Ah w/BBS and charger as a package.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

rtz said:


> I don't know how they can be had any cheaper than direct from China. Anyone else is a middle man(extra money) and they paid for the shipping to them, plus add more for shipping to you.


Do you have any experience importing from china?

I find the 'middle man' arrangement works very well, well at least it does in the uk.

The reason it works is because of the savings associates with purchasing in bulk and alao needing to pay less in shipping, handling and import fees.

For example, shipping on a motorcycle pack has previously cost $400 with £900 of agents fees (before duty and vat)

Shipping on a recent order I placed for 40,000ah was $600 and the agents fees stayed the same.


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## shardbearer (Feb 3, 2013)

I got a quote from CALIB Power last year, they do indeed sell the newer CA cells, they told me $128 per 100Ah CA cell, not including shipping from California. I was going to pick them up at their warehouse, which seems a lot better than hoping your batteries get on a ship in China and you weren't scammed. The lowest price I could find for other brands was from 3xe-electric-cars.com, at $1.1/Ah for both Winston and Sinopoly cells. They're based in Poland but ship directly from China. From what I've read, Thundersky got bought by Sinopoly, and then the founder of Thundersky started Winston. Sinopoly sued Winston, and then there were conflicting reports on whether Winston had gone bankrupt a few months ago, but it seems to be doing fine. You never know with China. Also, A123 Batteries has recently started selling directly to consumers, in quantities as low as $50. However they are not cost competitive at all, their 26650 cylindrical cells are $3.9/Ah and their pouch cells $3.5/Ah.


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## HYPRDRV (Aug 20, 2009)

Check out these guys.
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/
They have the batts in stock along with several other manufactures stocked here in the states. Good guys to work with!


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## Markijohn (Feb 7, 2014)

BentMike said:


> replying to texascotton,
> 
> I spoke to a professor here at NC State (FREEDM Center http://www.freedm.ncsu.edu/ ) who has a Li cell cycle tester, has reason to stay up on this topic, and has access to manufacturers (and access to Mandarin speaking colleagues)...he recommends CALB and Thundersky for LFP cells.
> 
> ...


What professor did you talk to? I just graduated from NCSU in May and did some work through the FREEDM center.


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## evpower (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: Update LiFePo4 Suppliers list - EUROPE*

Lithium battery from stock in Europe

*CALB - SE and CA series*
http://www.ev-power.eu/CALB-40Ah-400Ah/

*Sinopoly SP series*
http://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-200Ah/

*Winston LFP cells with Yttrium*
http://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/

*WINA cells with ALU casing*
http://www.ev-power.eu/WINA-30Ah-100Ah/

Shipping all around in Europe with ADR cerified courier (TNT)
http://www.ev-power.eu/ADR-Delivery/


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## evpower (Aug 9, 2013)

skooler said:


> Do you have any experience importing from china?


You may read this for some inspiration about making business with China:
http://www.auto88.cz/_info/Doc/BusinessTerms-GWL-vs-China.pdf


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## gerrard (Sep 13, 2013)

BentMike said:


> Skooler,
> 
> Yes, I see, you are in the UK.
> 
> ...


contact keegan, 626-383-2957 in LA California, he is the distributor of CALB, and he has a lot of CALB cells in stock.


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## corado (Feb 6, 2011)

In Europe is another big one

*Litrade.de*

*CALB SE and CA*
http://litrade.de/shop/Akkus-Zubehoer/CALB-CA-SE-Serie-LiFePo4/

*Sinopoly*
http://litrade.de/shop/Akkus-Zubehoer/Sinopoly-LiFePo4/

*Winston with the new LYP Cells (Yttrium)*
http://litrade.de/shop/Akkus-Zubehoer/Thundersky-Winston-LiFeYPo4/


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## www.3xE.pl (Nov 22, 2008)

We are quite long in EV business... 

More information can be found here: 3xE - electric cars: summer of double discount 



Contact us for more information about discount: [email protected] or call: +48-783-393-393
(ENGLISH, DEUTSCH, POLSKI)


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## bwjunkie (Jul 31, 2013)

From Balqon, I received 50x 60ah Winston lifeypo4 batteries today for exactly $3300 (free shipping and free residential lift gate service)

The total time was 5 months from order date to arrival.

-josh


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## twright (Aug 20, 2013)

I have been told that Hipower is no longer in business. Does anybody have any detail on this?


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

twright said:


> I have been told that Hipower is no longer in business. Does anybody have any detail on this?



Here is link on hipower

http://www.lithiumbatterypack.co/HIPOWER_bymfg_6-0-1.html


Ivan


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

bwjunkie said:


> From Balqon, ... (free shipping and free residential lift gate service)
> 
> The total time was 5 months from order date to arrival.
> 
> -josh


My personal experience with company 3xE (formerly sponsor of our forum) : they need even more than 5 months for delivery (and still counting).



-paul-


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

That's the problem with not stocking cells in country.....

Indra.co.uk hold UK stock of Sinopoly cells and ship across
Europe.


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## www.3xE.pl (Nov 22, 2008)

Yes - Paul is right. We have delayed delivery (a lot of batteries) for few customer. It is caused by company working in sea port in Hamburg-Germany (agency). They took over our delivery instead of our own customs agency (marked in all delivery documents). They do everything what is possible for them to delay next activities - example: use PAPER MAIL for international communication with our agency instead of E-MAIL... or they claim lost few tons battery package in their own storage and found it after a week (!), etc.

This is the worst case we ever had... and it is not because of Chinese partner. Chinese did everything perfectly. It is caused by european company trying to block other companies entering their market.

I apologize all our customer for this situation. It is not our fault, but anyway we will do our best to compensate it somehow (ie. free consulting for their projects, discounts for future orders etc.).

Best regards,
3xE - electric cars


EDIT: 2014.10.02 - batteries finally came to our company. We are doing quantity and quality check and send it to final customer.


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## Phaser (Jul 20, 2014)

Nabla_Operator said:


> My personal experience with company 3xE (formerly sponsor of our forum) : they need even more than 5 months for delivery (and still counting).
> 
> -paul-


Well that's just the reality ......

Nobody in Europe has practically no battery .....
All the famous and large supplier sends the order to the manufacturer until they get the order from the customer and sometimes also to get the money in their account.

There is only one exception:
GWL Power - www.evpower.eu.

You can arrive to the central warehouse personally, and any battery you can directly to take home.
http://www.ev-power.eu/About-Us/?cur=1

You pay on the spot, no waiting many months.
It is easy, like when you go to buy bread in the store 

For example, CALB battery, everything is still in stock, delivery of new products every month. Perfect price for SE models.
see here:
http://www.ev-power.eu/CALB-40Ah-400Ah/?cur=1

-Phaser-


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## www.3xE.pl (Nov 22, 2008)

Most projects where we deliver batteries (commercial and hobbysts) are planned for longer period and delivery time: 2-3 months is not a problem.

From time to time we have small stock, but keeping stocks is expensive. Thank to customer-order-based policy we offer best prices for batteries and have customer worldwide.
Additionally we sell products that come directly from factory - it means: not stored for a long time.


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

My order is over 6 months old now and I state that our former sponsor 3xE from Poland is not a great supplier.
-paul-


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Out of interest, what was the size and quantity of cell? Perhaps you could request your money back and go with one of the other european suppliers?


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## mira9_cz (Feb 27, 2013)

www.3xE.pl said:


> Additionally we sell products that come directly from factory - it means: not stored for a long time.


LiFePo4 stored for a long time is still an oxymoron in there days, isn't it?


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## mira9_cz (Feb 27, 2013)

skooler said:


> That's the problem with not stocking cells in country.....
> 
> Indra.co.uk hold UK stock of Sinopoly cells and ship across
> Europe.



What is your price for Sinopoly cells Mike, are you competitive with GWL? Since I have them local, I used to search nowhere else for prices. I like those new short cells made for E.V. application: http://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-300Ah/SP-LFP66AHA-Lithium-Cell-LiFePO4-3-2V-66Ah.html
Those could be put in two layers to RX-8 trunk and under the bonnet as well!


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