# [EVDL] Battery heating



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I am looking at methods for winterizing my EV, especially heating the
batteries. Of all my research, I like the concept of insulated battery boxes
with heating inside. This can be accomplished with anything from standard
heating blankets designed for heating batteries, to a number of other
solutions. I've even seen someone who made a post (not here) about using
waterbed heaters from Walmart.



However, I am having trouble sourcing heaters that would fit nicely in the
bottom of a battery box that holds 3 to 5 batteries.



Does anyone have recommendations on make and model for these?



Does anyone have other methods of heating batteries they have found to be
successful?



Thanks.



Greg

http://www.evalbum.com/2695 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Greg,

I never install a heating system for my EV. I live in Montana where the 
temperature may get to -35 below and had the EV park out side for 8 hours 
when I was working. The lowest temperature my batteries every got at -35 
was 65 degrees.

When its this cold, it is normally a clear day. So I park the EV with the 
gold tinted glass that is over the battery box. When I got back to the car 
8 hours later, the temperature above the battery box was about 80 degrees. 
This acts like a solar passive heat system.

Also my battery box, is insulated with two layers of 2 inch Dow Corning 
polystyrene blue foam that is 20 R factor. The pickup box is all insulated 
with 1 inch layer of foam and a water proof marine carpet with foam backing 
covers all the foam surface making the total R-factor over 30.

The heat formula to calculate the amount of insulation and heat loss is: 
BTUR's = Square Foot of Exterior enclosures x (1/R-factor) x the Temperature 
Difference between the ambient air and internal enclosure air.

Normally the formula is state as: Btur's = SF x U x TD.

Only the battery box cover is cover with marine carpet with out any foam 
backing so the solar passive heat will infuse into the battery box.

Also what helps is a super insulated garage to keep the EV in. My garage 
walls are insulated to 60 R factor and the ceiling is 94 R factor. The 
garage door is 19 R's. It is heated to 72 degrees and just 15 minutes 
before I leave, I turn on the overhead radiant heaters to raise the 
temperature to 80 degrees.

At the same time during these 15 minutes, I finish charge the batteries, 
which the battery box has a air inlet and exhaust fan outlet to bring in 
this heated air. The advantage here, is that as soon as I finish charging, 
I leave at a battery voltage of 225 volts instead of 192 volts.

I also can connect up a inline booster heater to the port of the inlet pipe, 
to jack up the heater temperature to the batteries. One time I got the 
battery temperature to over 100 degrees.

My heating system for the rest of the EV is one 120 VAC 60 hz 1000 watt 
heater for defrosting the windshield and two 120 VAC 60 hz 640 watt and 840 
watt in cab heaters for the passenger compartment. These heaters, fans, and 
pumps can either be ran by a onboard inverter or by commercial power by use 
of a transfer switch while the main AC is plug in. I only need to preheat 
the EV for about 15 minutes to get the inside heated to over 80 degrees.

I did not do this all at once, this has been a on going project since 1976 
and still doing mods today.

Roland

http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Tyler" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Battery heating


> I am looking at methods for winterizing my EV, especially heating the
> batteries. Of all my research, I like the concept of insulated battery 
> boxes
> with heating inside. This can be accomplished with anything from standard
> heating blankets designed for heating batteries, to a number of other
> solutions. I've even seen someone who made a post (not here) about using
> waterbed heaters from Walmart.
>
>
>
> However, I am having trouble sourcing heaters that would fit nicely in the
> bottom of a battery box that holds 3 to 5 batteries.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have recommendations on make and model for these?
>
>
>
> Does anyone have other methods of heating batteries they have found to be
> successful?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Greg
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/2695
>
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Greg Tyler wrote:
> > Does anyone have recommendations on make and model for these?
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Greg Tyler wrote:
> > I am having trouble sourcing heaters that would fit nicely in the
> > bottom of a battery box that holds 3 to 5 batteries.
> > Does anyone have recommendations on make and model for these?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] battery heating*

has anyone experimented with seed germination heating pads/coils as battery heaters? here are a few a found during a quick search

http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_seed_germination;pg104439_104443.html

http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10001&productId=39513&langId=-1&division=GrowersSupply&pageId=ItemDetail&isDoc=N

http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_seed_germination;pg106148_106153.html

harry

Albuquerque, NM
current bike: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1581





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] battery heating*

You can actually get battery heat blankets from a auto parts store. I am 
using one for my 12 volt accessory battery made by KAT'S.

At one time my original battery box was made out of aluminum. I bought a 
large king size electric blanket and carefully cut it, so it was a strip 
about 12 inches wide and long enough to wrap around the battery boxes two or 
more times.

I sew this blanket strip between a foam back upholstery vinyl and a thin 
1/16 inch of neoprene sheeting which faces the battery box. Use a 100 
percent nylon thread, not cotton thread.

I have tried the flat and round heat tape which was design for the higher 
temperatures of 80 degrees instead of the standard plumbing 40 degree type. 
This is the same type of heat wire that can be laid in concrete made my 
Chromalox.

You have to be care full not to bend these cables around tightly around the 
batteries or battery box. I had black burnt spots on these cables at every 
turn.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dale henderson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: [EVDL] battery heating


> has anyone experimented with seed germination heating pads/coils as 
> battery heaters? here are a few a found during a quick search
>
> http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_seed_germination;pg104439_104443.html
>
> http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10001&productId=39513&langId=-1&division=GrowersSupply&pageId=ItemDetail&isDoc=N
>
> http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_seed_germination;pg106148_106153.html
>
> harry
>
> Albuquerque, NM
> current bike: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
> current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1581
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] Battery Heating*

Up here in the ( now ) Rainy cool North West, our SEVA member Dave Cloud
(Cloud Racing) has been using these seed bed heaters, and other 
resistive wire heaters to fabricate battery warmers with lots of 
insulation for years...

Give him a call at: 425 788 9293
-- 
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 524 1351
Cell: 206 850 8535
e-mail: [email protected]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] battery heating*

hi Folks
Recently I dismantled three electric blankets with the idea of building my 
own battery heaters for the four boxes in my ev. I cut the wires at the 
plug, pulled them out of the blanket and then mounted them in coil fashion 
on a 1/4" piece of plywood and taped them down completely covered with 
"extreme temperature" foil tape from Home Depot ( the kind designed for 
steam pipe insulation taping) I then lined my boxes with aluminim sheets, 
including drains and placed the heating panels under the aliminum 
lining.(Long overdue to collect batery leaks) Before I did all this I made a 
test panel by merely resplicing the resistance wires back on to the controls 
(Sunbeam). This seemed to work beautifully, so I went ahead with it. But now 
that the heaters are installed The controls do not work. I have three 
controls, one for each box in the rear and one for the two small boxes under 
the hood. The on/off switch on all three just blinks on and off. My 
voltmeter reads a constant pulse from 6-7-8-9 volts and back down again 
9-8-7-6. I know very little about these things, but it seems to me that 
there has to be some kind of safety device that detects any break in the 
resistance circuit. I'm trying to think of a way to make my own controls or 
to modify these, but am stumped at the moment. It seems that these run at 
only 6-9 volts depending on thr heat setting of 1-10 on the controls. Has 
anyone on the list built their own heaters? What kind of existing devices 
might be used? I was thinking about those low voltage chargers that come 
with cell phones. These elcetric blanket wires have two insulated single 
fillament wires which looks like aluminum, twisted with what looks like 
fiberglass, very fragile and very difficult to splice.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery heating


> You can actually get battery heat blankets from a auto parts store. I am 
> using one for my 12 volt accessory battery made by KAT'S.
>
> At one time my original battery box was made out of aluminum. I bought a 
> large king size electric blanket and carefully cut it, so it was a strip 
> about 12 inches wide and long enough to wrap around the battery boxes two 
> or more times.
>
> I sew this blanket strip between a foam back upholstery vinyl and a thin 
> 1/16 inch of neoprene sheeting which faces the battery box. Use a 100 
> percent nylon thread, not cotton thread.
>
> I have tried the flat and round heat tape which was design for the higher 
> temperatures of 80 degrees instead of the standard plumbing 40 degree 
> type. This is the same type of heat wire that can be laid in concrete made 
> my Chromalox.
>
> You have to be care full not to bend these cables around tightly around 
> the batteries or battery box. I had black burnt spots on these cables at 
> every turn.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "dale henderson" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:57 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] battery heating
>
>
>> has anyone experimented with seed germination heating pads/coils as 
>> battery heaters? here are a few a found during a quick search
>>
>> http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_seed_germination;pg104439_104443.html
>>
>> http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10001&productId=39513&langId=-1&division=GrowersSupply&pageId=ItemDetail&isDoc=N
>>
>> http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/prod1;gs1_seed_germination;pg106148_106153.html
>>
>> harry
>>
>> Albuquerque, NM
>> current bike: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
>> current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1581
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] battery heating*



> richarddthomas wrote:
> > I dismantled three electric blankets with the idea of building my
> > own battery heaters for the four boxes in my EV... now
> > that the heaters are installed, the controls do not work...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] battery heating*



> Lee hart wrote:
> Or, they may use a regular 2-conductor stranded copper wire cord which
> > is *not* shorted at the end. But it has a black conductive rubber
> > insulation between them as the "resistor". The resistance of this rubber
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I want to have heating available for my new lithium pack.
McMaster-Carr has a huge selection of heat cable. Most of it is very 
expensive for the footage or wattage provided.
My idea is to put 1" rigid foam insulation in the bottom of the battery box. 
Then, "route" slots in the foam to lay the heat cable in.
Lastly, put a layer of sheet aluminum for the batteries to sit on and act as 
a heat spreader. The cable I would like to use is here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/524/=h93vpj

It it called roof and gutter heat cable. I am assuming it has a tough 
waterproof jacket on it due to its use outdoors.
You get 150W and 30ft for about $65. I would use 2 of these for a total of 
300W.
Any problems with this idea?

Thanks, Al 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Al,

I just finished doing something similar so I have some ideas or at least
questions for further investigation:

1. What temperature does the roof and gutter heat cable turn "on" at?
The stuff I looked at in stores was designed to come on if temperatures feel
below about 40F. It looks like this stuff is about the same. The problem I
had with that was that I wanted the batteries kept warmer than that. I
wanted mine kept about 75-80F. I didn't think the roof and gutter cable
would do that.

2. What is the maximum temperature the cable will reach? I wanted to
have some failsafe if the thermostat failed for some reason. I didn't want
the maximum temperature the cable would reach to be above about 100F. I
really don't want the batteries even getting that hot. That rules out some
of the higher temperature cables.

I went with Hydor Hydrokable from Amazon. See:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-HYDROKABLE-Cable-Heater-19-7/dp/B0006JLPGS

They will heat to about 105F without thermostatic control. There is a
separate thermostat (which I'm using) which allows a set point between 65F
and 90F or so. They are intended for aquariums or terrariums so water
shouldn't be an issue. I'm using the 50W version, but they come higher and
lower. I only have 1/2" foam insulation, but I think the combination of
foam and heaters will be enough. I have 3 battery boxes and a 50W heater
for each box.

I taped my cables down to the aluminum, but other than that, did about what
you described. I wanted them in firm contact with the aluminum plate for
best heat transfer to the batteries.

I've also heard of people doing similar things with water bed heaters.

I've just finished this project, and yes, I do recognize the irony of
finishing my battery heaters just in time for summer!

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Al
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:06 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] Battery heating
> 
> I want to have heating available for my new lithium pack.
> McMaster-Carr has a huge selection of heat cable. Most of it is very
> expensive for the footage or wattage provided.
> My idea is to put 1" rigid foam insulation in the bottom of the battery
box.
> Then, "route" slots in the foam to lay the heat cable in.
> Lastly, put a layer of sheet aluminum for the batteries to sit on and act
as a
> heat spreader. The cable I would like to use is here:
> 
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/524/=h93vpj
> 
> It it called roof and gutter heat cable. I am assuming it has a tough
waterproof
> jacket on it due to its use outdoors.
> You get 150W and 30ft for about $65. I would use 2 of these for a total
of
> 300W.
> Any problems with this idea?
> 
> Thanks, Al
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One thing to watch, is to radius this cable around 90 degrees corners. When 
I remove this type of cable for a new battery pack, the inside of each 
corner had black scorch marks on it.

I use a Honey Well aquastate temperature control that had a remote sensor 
that was install into the battery box which is adjustable up up to 80 F.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Al" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:05 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Battery heating


> I want to have heating available for my new lithium pack.
> McMaster-Carr has a huge selection of heat cable. Most of it is very
> expensive for the footage or wattage provided.
> My idea is to put 1" rigid foam insulation in the bottom of the battery 
> box.
> Then, "route" slots in the foam to lay the heat cable in.
> Lastly, put a layer of sheet aluminum for the batteries to sit on and act 
> as
> a heat spreader. The cable I would like to use is here:
>
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/524/=h93vpj
>
> It it called roof and gutter heat cable. I am assuming it has a tough
> waterproof jacket on it due to its use outdoors.
> You get 150W and 30ft for about $65. I would use 2 of these for a total 
> of
> 300W.
> Any problems with this idea?
>
> Thanks, Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What's the plan if you use this heating system and you want to plug onto a
J1772 based charging station?

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've had my battery boxes insulated with 1" of isocyanurate foam (the type
with the aluminum foil outer coating) for about three years. I've found that
with twice daily charging (at home and at work) that the temperature in the
winter stays above 60 degrees without heating. I park in an unheated (but
warmer than outside) garage at home and outside at work. Winter temperatures
in New England can reach the teens and lower.
However, in the summer it's necessary to remove the top foam layer, crack
the battery box lid open and use fans to keep the temperature low enough
when charging out in the open sun at work - particularly when the lead acid
battery pack starts to age and takes more time to a reach fully charged
state. 

Regards,
John Nicholson
www.evalbum.com/2672

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 25 Apr 2012 at 12:15, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Failing this, you need to TEST it first. That doesn't mean install it
> > and see if it works. Heat cables have started *fires*, and that's the
> ...


----------

