# 350V 1400amp controller first test



## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Very Cool


----------



## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

Question for MPaulHolmes: Would this AC motor controller operate an HPEVS motor?

If the HPEVS motors can do 200v (which I read somewhere), can you program the controller to only feed the motor 200v from the 350v pack?



Question for HPEVS: Does the HPEVS AC-51 induction motor have some upper limit of torque that it can output (or amps that it can take)?

(For instance is it heat limited like a series DC motor or is it limited in some other manner that would prevent it from dishing out 1,400 amps worth of torque?)


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

this is a dc controller, and looking like a decent one at that, I'm reasonably sure it would be happy with much less than 350v, since it is running on 24v here.


----------



## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

MPaulHolmes said:


> "The nice thing about this controller is, you can just unplug the DC board and plug in the AC board and use an AC motor."
> 
> The power sections for DC and AC are identical. Right down to the 3 "phases" that each have their own hardware overcurrent protections. In the DC case, you just hook up all the 3 phases to M+ on the motor. I made the 3 M+ leads 3 feet long so the IGBTs would current share a bit better.


This would be why I thought that he was talking about it being used as an AC motor controller.

Also, the fact that they used this controller to power a Nissan Leaf motor.

Unless I am wrong, I think the Leaf motor is AC?


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

paul has a few controllers  but he is using a 6 pack igbt here I guess, which would allow either control board to plug into the power section (3 dual igbts make a fine DC power section as well, just tie all the phase "leads" together and control it appropriately)


----------



## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

I am aware that he has several controllers going, I am curious whether his AC controller would be compatible with the HPEVS motors, as I asked?


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

As long as it's 3 phase (induction or permanent magnet or ipm) it would be fine. For induction, you would have to run 2 tests, but they are easy. First, you would type the command (from a serial connection on a computer):
run-pi-test

Then sit there for like 30 seconds or something and then after that, you type:
run-rotor-test

run-rotor-test finds the best rotor time constant for your motor. Then you drive away. hurray! haha.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm sure it can (you make your own power section, so make it as big as you need, though it won't be 1400 amps anymore in this example, maybe 600 for a little bit), but then the question is where do you get an AC51 that doesn't come with a controller?


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

Also those motors are low voltage, so you may be better off with a mosfet based controller.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Hey Paul (love the new sig BTW), what part number are the igbt's here (guessing something like 3x CM600DU), and what ac rms rating would you give this same power section?


----------



## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

DCB, Electriccarpartscompany will sell a motor sans controller, I've looked into it.


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

I was using these:
http://theelectrostore.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/cm600dy-12nf-powerex-new.html

thingstodo over at ecomodder recently did a test with his DC and AC controller fighting each other, and got the hardware phase overcurrent to trip. That was set to 600amp peak. His current meter only said around 350ampRMS on the phase (close to 500amp peak), so my guess is maybe the phase inductance reduced and maybe saturated a tiny bit, making the current spike just a little bit? According to the Id and Iq current feedback, Id and Iq were tracking throttle very well the whole time. Although, all it takes is a single spurious current spike lasting more than a couple microseconds for the hardware overcurrent to latch all 6 IGBTs off. He got some video, but is working on editing it.

The cooling for the AC controller (the first one I made over a year ago) is just a 3/8" aluminum plate. My guess is you could probably do 400ampRMS for quite a while with liquid cooling if you used the DC plate. His DC controller has liquid cooling and a 3/4" aluminum plate. I wish I would have done that with the AC too. He said the DC plate temperature during the test didn't even move.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

ah hmm. 

just goofing around in ltspice using 1400A as a DC baseline.
dc controller, switches see 467 amps each (%78 derated from 600)

limiting the phase current to ~664Arms seems to have similiar switch rms (@60hz).
switch current: 469Arms, 299Aavg, 937Apeak (datasheet lists 1200A peak, if cool)

note: I've been wrong before  but the ratio from dc to ac amps for the power section appears to be about 1400:664


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

I was thinking of the 1400amp as a peak current for the DC controller (like less than a minute), and the 400ampRMS as a semi-continuous for the AC. Although, I sort of pulled 400ampRMS out of my behind. haha. That's pretty awesome to know that it might be able to do a lot more for short periods.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

well to keep it simple for AC, take the phase peak, that is the switch peak, and the switch rms is half of that.

The dc side is a little fuzzier as the load swings from the bottom switches to the top but with increasing bemf, so I just took 1400/3 there. 

cooling good. I've seen one of the gurus here work a junction temp calculation at some point (probably tess), I should probably dig that up and try to understand it. (or at least understand what those thermal resistance graphs are trying to say)


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

My beta tester in Canada used the DC controller to fight against the AC controller, and evidently got the AC controller phase current up to 600amp (peak), since he managed to get the hardware overcurrent to trip (and the trip point was set to 600amp):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eImdvnpnKUo&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Hey Paul,

Will you be developing kits for this new controller soon? how much skill would be required to build one of these controllers?

My soliton jr just died on me and I'm weighing my options. I'd love to build a controller like this but it might be a bit beyond my skill level. I've completed a number of small hobby electronics type projects but nothing high powered.

Keep up the good work
Shane


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

mPaul, or thingstodo, is the stinkydiaper compatible with the three phase controller? I see they have the same cpu header file, P30F4011.h


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

disregard, it is a different beast, only has the one opto for controlling all three igbt switches (though certainly a 3 phase controller can be a dc controller with the right firmware, possibly interleaved or multi-motor or sepex (2 igbt for the armature and one for the field), etc.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whSQqHV_f0Q&feature=youtu.be


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

MPaulHolmes said:


> Also those motors are low voltage, so you may be better off with a mosfet based controller.


Well i made my 75Vrms ACIM motor run at 320Vdc with Johanness controler. Mind you i stretched point of max power (weakening) to 250Hz and motor had to have very little slip (torque) at start but i ran the car at 100km/h in 3rd! It can be done but there are all sorts of issues when driving. Now i had it rewind to 180Vrms and torque curve is on par with anything on the road here. 
There is no problem with wiring since lacqer isolation is good up to 600V and with more voltage there is less amp heat-up. Maybe motor would be even more powerfull at higher RPM .


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok! Today i got a Leaf motor in my garage. Also i got transmission and its controler.
Tomorrow i intend to run motor in sinus using Johannes controler and 380V battery in my car. Should be fun.

Next i will finish Pauls controller PCB and my power stage. I will be using 400A IGBTs and 2x 100uF 90Arms caps on DC rail. So i expect not to need snubbers. Mmmm maybe i will put two on IGBTs just in case...
Pictures of motor and future power stage.

EDIT: I decided i will put in 3uF snubbers like that: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Non-Induc...095977?hash=item1c5892bd29:g:ZLUAAOSw3ydV4b1s
And just so i eliminate ringing i will probably put in two 2200uF 450V caps to serve as choke.
Yesterday i propperly arranged plastic caps and two elcaps in Johannes controller to get optimal current damping. I connected caps with copper rail and put one 25mm2 short cable from caps to DC rails to retain some flexibility. After some 50km of driving to work and cells being full i figured whole setup works good. At least that 8khz whine is gone, thanks to elcaps i think. I also found the car more responsive to throttle and regen has more power. So i will go with that option.


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

Wow! Looking good! One thing I recently discovered with the FOD8316 parts. The datasheet says pin 8 is connected internally to ground, but there have recently been a batch where that is not true, so you would have to add a small jumper wire from pin 8 to ground (which is fortunately just about 0.25 inches away from pin 8! haha). I would do that just in case on all 6 of them. It won't hurt anything.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tnx Paul for that info. 

Well i did turn the Leaf motor using Johannes controler, albeit at some lower Hz! 
First i had to give it 3500 boost to start spinning at all. Than i tried all sorts of frequency changes vith marginal success. Last of all i set min slip at 10Hz and started motor by applying throttle. It turned at 600rpm! Hah! I then showed it 30Hz and bam! inverter threw OC limit. Well i tried more political approach. I went back to 10hz for start and when motor was turning i changed minslip in steps of 10Hz up to 60Hz. Rotation was on par.
Then i smelled something!!! It was a plastic smell... it came from inverter. I opened the cover and smoke came out. When i dissassembled it i found both wires grm caps to DC rail were burned, isolation hanging off them!!! 
PMSM motor must have put some heavy pulses back to inverter. But i didnt saw any indication of regen!!!

Huh i replaced elcaps with two 100uF plastic ones and put an order of magnitude bigger wire in!

EDIT: I found out my Meanwell DCDC died! It must have happened yesterday. I dont know why, maybe burned cap wires had something to do with that. When i am considering that i remember now BMS was jumping wild when i was running PMSM motor. Hm I will try warranty if possible...

A


----------



## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

Doesn't the leaf sound awesome when it's turning? So futuristic! Ya, it's a monster. With the PI loop, you still see (while holding at zero rpm) with a Id and Iq current command of 0, Id and Iq may be -5 to 5amp. But I guess on a scale of -500 to 500 it's not so bad, but it's like a caged animal. lol


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

MPaulHolmes said:


> Doesn't the leaf sound awesome when it's turning? So futuristic! Ya, it's a monster. With the PI loop, you still see (while holding at zero rpm) with a Id and Iq current command of 0, Id and Iq may be -5 to 5amp. But I guess on a scale of -500 to 500 it's not so bad, but it's like a caged animal. lol


Well i sent my DCDC converter for repair and i converted my 12V 8A charger to work on 410VDC with one big 12V battery . 
Basicaly i just replaced caps with 330uF 300V ones and put in 450V 8A NPN BJTs to handle higher voltage. Ah i also had to change PC817 optos limiting resistor from 220K to 330K. Still waiting for that DCDC...

Paul can you send me pin numbering for Leaf resolver vs your resolver to encoder PCB? That would really help since i cant get any good schematic from Nissan docs. I will then make a colour wiring scheme to follow in future.
Huh, i also saw Leaf controller wants to know some resolver offset reference points if you changed motor. Do you need to know resolver offset for your controller?
Could your inverter use temp sensor from Leaf motor?

tnx

A


----------



## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

arber333 said:


> Paul can you send me pin numbering for Leaf resolver vs your resolver to encoder PCB? That would really help since i cant get any good schematic from Nissan docs. I will then make a colour wiring scheme to follow in future.
> Huh, i also saw Leaf controller wants to know some resolver offset reference points if you changed motor. Do you need to know resolver offset for your controller?
> Could your inverter use temp sensor from Leaf motor?
> 
> ...


+1, will be very nice to know the right resolver wiring, I'm working on remy motors now and leaf inverter can be used to test these motors.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I made some progress. I finished soldering brain board PCB and put some G-E wires on it. 
Then i started putting power section together. My intention is to assemble very compact water cooled inverter. 
I will use 100uF film caps and 2200uF elcaps. This should act as a shock strut with a spring. Analogy is from mechanical since i am ME. In short foilcaps would take care of ringing and elcaps would compensate for resonance spikes. 
Tracks are brass as well as bushings. Also i plan to make integral contacts to fit power cables to.


----------



## pwolos (Oct 19, 2016)

Very nice build. You connected the three phases to do DC. Would you have to change anything in the software for that to work properly? I'm wondering if I can use this controller for a DC application. Thanks for the video.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

pwolos said:


> Very nice build. You connected the three phases to do DC. Would you have to change anything in the software for that to work properly? I'm wondering if I can use this controller for a DC application. Thanks for the video.


Inverter in pictures will power Nissan Leaf PMSM motor. I am not sure i want to try DC motor option . I am all for AC now.


----------



## Windydrew (Dec 18, 2015)

I have a leaf motor that I am running off of Pauls AC controller and am having issues. I'm using the entire Chevy Volt battery pack - nominal voltage is 360 and fully charged is 400v. I can't seem to get more than 5 to 10 amps out of the controller even with full throttle. I have had the same software that I used before on another project that worked better than this but was scrapped in favor of a Pulse Invader Autocycle. Not sure if I need to just start fresh with a working program from someone else or what. Help!


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I will try to show how i assemble and test my inverter here. Later i will probably try to log my second car conversion. Have fun reading.

https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Last week i have been reassembling my inverter in more convential configuration. That is IGBT rails with snubbers on them with large elcaps over them. I had to fight trough different versions of code until i found one that worked for me. 

Yesterday i gave LEAF motor 48V from my ebike battery and i finally got it to run with positive control. You may remember i made a special fitting for magnet encoder. This works now. Today i will try 360Vdc and see how it goes... 

Encoder is 10bit RLS RMF44IC10BA11 with differential signal push-pull. I only use ABZ lines and i leave negative lines unconnected. It works!
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/16/encoder/


tnx


----------

