# Getting my donor car - disappointed so far



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hello Uncle Joseph.

I feel your pain.

I also tought finding the perfect car was easy. Just wait a little and pay attention.

I whent to see "perfect with no accident", to find them dented. "That's not an accident it appened while I was in school". I whent to see a car with "standard transmission", to find it's automatic. The guy says "Automatics are standard now".

Perfect body means slightly less rust than the Titanic.

It looks like cars with bad engines go straight to the wrecker never to listings.

I just got a donnor. Paid more than I was willing to do initially.Had to put repairs on it to get it trough the safety inspection.

So now I feel really bad about ripping appart a perfectly good car. It's better than my regular set of wheels.

You ca'nt win.

You will delayed but you will get there.

Take heart, take care,

DP


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I picked mime up at a junk yard yes i got a bit lucky but there were three cars there that would have been suitable,, you could probably make a deal with them to get spare parts for free for the car you buy from them, or at least one free re-visit for parts. Granted I am still missing a couple minor trim panels but now that I am driving the car it does not bother me nearly as much. I will get the parts in due time. The dodge neon I think would be a prime candidate as well I see them often. As well we have a junk yard here that has weekly auctions on cars that are complete before they hit the yard to get stripped. As well mine had a clean title not salvaged.

Brian

PS did I mention "as well"?


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

All I can say is be patient. Getting a donor car in decent shape will save you months of rebuild time. Trust me on this one, I've been rebuilding my $500 '65 Spitfire for a few months. I'm almost $1K into just the parts, and I'm not nearly done. I really wanted a little sports car, so I personally am okay with the choice. But, I don't know if I could be rebuilding a Saturn with the same enthusiasm.

Try searching on craigslist for keywords like "head gasket", "valve job", etc. Sometimes you'll find gems that are otherwise good, but require a major engine repair so it's very cheap. Mechanic's specials. You're tossing the engine of course, so ask lots of questions about the condition of the vehicle before going out there. Keep a list of common problems of vehicles that have sat (especially in the rust belt) and just ask down the list: brakes, rust, body, steering, tires, etc. Every little problem will cost you later, so either use it as negotiating leverage or don't buy it.

Also, if you can drive farther distances, try crazedlist.org for a broader search of potential cars.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> You're tossing the engine of course, so ask lots of questions about the condition of the vehicle before going out there. Keep a list of common problems of vehicles that have sat (especially in the rust belt) and just ask down the list: brakes, rust, body, steering, tires, etc.


Yeah, I've been doing that. I've checked every craigslist server in my state for everything from Saturns to S-10s to BMW 3 series. The car I looked at today was simply completely mis-represented on craigslist and via telephone conversations. Plus, the guy that showed it to me was insulted when I asked if he was willing to negotiate stating, "It's an insult to offer less. This is a good car that's the lowest price on craigslist. $600 is all I'll take." Funny considering his ad said, "Let's make a deal." I'd like to add that I'm not a car snob. It really was ready for scrap. Much body work, everything mechanical, and a new interior (carpet, seats, headliner) would have been required to make it drivable. And even then, it would clearly have been an older, used car.

I've looked at all our local auto dealers, craigslist, auto traders, newspapers, etc. With the online sites, I've been expanding my distance to 150 miles...so hopefully something will turn up. I'm just really concerned that I'm going to spend a ton of money on traveling expenses to find mis-represented vehicles. If I can find something locally, that will easily justify the traveling expense. Plus I'm more inclined to pay a little more if I don't have to drive 2 hours to get it. But anyway, the hunt continues...


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

I think that the scrap yards are paying around $300 for cars now . That will drive up the prices some . I've had some luck with craigslist but you have to be patient for the deals to come along and have cash in hand before someone else sees the adds . I payed $800 for my 1991 Saturn SC Coupe . The add said good shape and it was poor . But even with the flaws I still think I got an ok deal . The car is fairly light and has a low Cd of 33 . Just be patient and something will come along . J.W.


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## brent.massey (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm totally feeling your pain. I rarely get a call back, and when I do, they are already sold. I got a variation on the "Automatics are standards now" response too. He said that what he meant by posting "5 Speed" was a 5 speed automatic...who does that? 

Either way, I'm still looking too...

Glad you guys aren't in my area! At least we won't be fighting over the same car! ha!


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

I've found sometimes what works best on craigslist is a want ad. Often people will research what they have or are thinking about selling prior to putting something up for sale, so if you want what they have you might get first dibs. I got my utility trailer, some of my shop tools, and a bunch of other things that way.

Specify what you are looking for, its necessary attributes and general condition and demand pictures before you go to look unless its real close.

When looking for my donor, I saw half a dozen MR2s, several of which were severely misrepresented. I just pointed out that fact and walked away on those; I had been very clear with the people what I wanted: decent body, decent interior, no rust. Prices ranged from $2000 to $400 and I ended up buying the $400 one because it was the best candidate for conversion though it was still far from perfect of course.

Keep at it; you'll find something and I definitely echo the sentiment that its a good idea to take your time and find a good, solid conversion candidate.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I second the want ad recommendation. I had forgotten that that is exactly what I did. I mentioned in the ad that it was for an EV conversion as well. I received many enthused car offers. Some from people who would've converted the car if they had the time/money. The car I ended up buying was from a guy who was 2 hours away. He halved the price and that made it worth my while. I paid him an extra $100 to drive it to a mechanic for me. The mechanic, by the way, was found through the same ad. He knows how to restore, but knows nothing about EVs. He wants to learn the electrics, and for a trade, he's helping me convert my car. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have his expertise. I'm still doing most of the work, but he looks over my shoulder for the things I've never done (body work, etc). It's a good trade, and he's a good guy.


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## brent.massey (Jul 23, 2008)

A want ad is a great idea. I'm always afraid that I'll get a bunch of spam ads though...

I think I'll post a want ad tonight, we'll see what happens


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I had been scouring craigslist for some time.. .one problems is I live in the Midwest and most older cars are eaten up with rust. Every car I looked at was in worse shape than described! Finally, after looking at a '89? Corolla SR5 (very cool car btw) that was "clean clean clean!" (it had a broken winshield, water in the trunk and rust through on one tire well".. I drove past a small used car lot with a '98 ZX2.. After looking at it, driving it (it drives very well) and thinking about it for a day, I finally just ponied up the $2500 for the car.. 

I know it's much more than I wanted to spend. But I would have been happy to find one in good condition for $1500, so it was only 1k more on the overall conversion. Pluis I got a car I could drive around to check things out.. and it is in TERRIFIC condition in and out.. well optioned, one owner.. I know most would say I paid too much for a donor.. but I like the car and it needs nothing for body, mechanics, interior, etc. Overall, I'm very happy with my donor.

http://cardomain.com/ride/3155482

edit:

having said all that.. I wish I had thought of the craigslist want ad!!! Sounds like a GREAT idea.


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

Wow Uncle Joe, your plight makes me feel I really lucked out. I just bought a 96 Saturn SL2 for $1575 from the original owner. The seller struck me as a genuinely honest guy which put me at ease. Other than some scratches and scuffs on the paint, and a couple rust spots (okay, they're HOLES), the car is in remarkable shape, and does not look 13 years old. I have receipts for new parts including alternator, starter, oxygen sensor, suspension parts and brakes (discs all around). He said he did most of his own maintenance and repairs, and gave me a Haynes manual. ;-)

Patricio, that's a sweet looking ZX2. Do you know the curb weight, GVWR and drag coefficient? My saturn comes in at 2400 lbs with about a 1000 lb hauling capacity and about .32 Cd. I'm in the central part of the Hoosier state as well, BTW.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

My next donor I plan to spend more on the car so I have to do less to it there is a give and take here, there are great deals out there but patience is required to find the best deals. Pros and cons


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

Gavin gave similar advice in one of his vids, and I'm glad I took it. I want to build an EV, not do a bunch of bodywork. When I'm done with the build, Maaco can spray some white on it.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Rolls Kinardly said:


> Wow Uncle Joe, your plight makes me feel I really lucked out. I just bought a 96 Saturn SL2 for $1575 from the original owner. The seller struck me as a genuinely honest guy which put me at ease. Other than some scratches and scuffs on the paint, and a couple rust spots (okay, they're HOLES), the car is in remarkable shape, and does not look 13 years old. I have receipts for new parts including alternator, starter, oxygen sensor, suspension parts and brakes (discs all around). He said he did most of his own maintenance and repairs, and gave me a Haynes manual. ;-)
> 
> Patricio, that's a sweet looking ZX2. Do you know the curb weight, GVWR and drag coefficient? My saturn comes in at 2400 lbs with about a 1000 lb hauling capacity and about .32 Cd. I'm in the central part of the Hoosier state as well, BTW.


 
Listed at 2478 curb weight (2500 actual w/o me and about 3 gal of gas at local truck stop - plus it has a glass sunroof), GVWR is 3375, 1000lb towing capacity, .33 Cd... Should make one fine looking EV when finished!


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## ISellMiataParts (Sep 24, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> Well today I went and looked at a 95 Saturn. The few emails and calls I had with the owner suggested this was going to be the perfect car to convert. However, upon seeing it in person, I discovered this car is much better suited to the scrapper. Quite a bit of false advertising on the part of the owner/seller. He said the body was "good" when I spoke to him on the phone. I see the car in person and discover front end crash damage with the need to replace the front bumper cover, right fender, hood and windshield. I also would have needed to pound out 2 fist sized dents in the roof. On top of that, all 4 brakes/rotors were seized, rusted and pitted, the car was sunk into the ground from sitting for 2 years, and all of the upholstery was stained, rotted or needed replacing. All 4 tires were flat. Total for this gem? $600 firm because "it's a good car." The engine does not run because the rings and pistons are bad.
> 
> I've been scouring the ads for a suitable Saturn, S-10 or anything I can use as a conversion for around $1200 or less. No luck so far. People aren't calling me back, don't write me back and are generally rude when I do talk to them.
> 
> Does everyone else have this hard of a time? I'd be happy if I could simply find a car that isn't either crashed or rotted from the inside out for a reasonable price. I'm willing to spend up to $2k, but that means I won't be able to start ordering conversion parts until after the first of the year.


 
scrap metal in this area of the country is in the $300+ range per car, no questions asked, any condition. That makes it a little harder for you to find a nice car for your budget.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Certainly I would avoid one that has sat so long that the brakes/wheel bearings are seized or frozen. 

I was lucky to find my truck, having only sat a couple months before I bought it with a blown head gasket/warped head.

It was in sad shape, overall, and I knew I was going to go through everything and replace or repair anything suspect... but at least it rolled, and had its interior in tact even though it smelled like an ash tray and was extremely dusty.

Obviously it could have been worse, and I probably could have found something better for what I have invested into it so far... but I wouldn't have been as secure in my knowledge of it's mechanical worthiness as I am with this truck.

If you're not willing or able to do something like I am, where you tear down the entire vehicle and inspect/repair/replace everything from stem to stern, certainly search for something a little more "fresh".


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## d-bledsoe (May 22, 2008)

I must have gotten lucky with my craigslist find. It did take about 2 months before the right car came along but searching timing belt and gasket got me a 92 mazda mx-3 that is in perfect condition inside and out for 300$. Only issue was it didn't run because the timing belt snapped. not a problem for me as i was taking the motor out anyways.

After buying the car i actually fixed the timing belt and drove it around for a while.

Finds are out there, just got to wait and search for the right one

-Derek


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## ISellMiataParts (Sep 24, 2008)

mx3 would make for a cool conversion, the body is very pretty, i'd think fairly aerodynamic too. 6 cylinder or 4cylinder motor? Many don't know but that 6 cylinder was the smallest v6 ever made in a production car and worth a decent $$. It's fast as hell too.


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## jaspersk (Jun 26, 2008)

I found success by looking in the auto parts section versus the auto section. Look for people that are trying to part out a car with blown engine. I called a 3 or 4 people and found that most of them weren't getting any takers for parts and were very motivated at the prospect of someone buying the whole car. It is a good way to get a great deal.

I was looking for a Jetta and saw cars going fairly quickly for $800-$1000 in the normal car section even though they had blown head gasket or some other problem that required the car to be towed. I think the mechanical types that were looking for a cheap car like the idea of buying something like that. I found a '95 Jetta that had been sitting in the car parts section for 4 months for $500 advertised for parts. I showed up and found only one tiny rust spot and no parts missing, offered them $400 and towed the car home. Turned out all it needed was a fuel pump which I picked up for $10 on ebay so I can drive it around while I wait for my Zilla to come in. 

I guess I was lucky.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Around here the best time to look is in the fall.
Someone may have a car they have been nursing along, but with winter coming on they may want something better.

I have my eye on a small Mitsubishi coupe for my next project. The current owner runs it sorta hard and engine sounds bad.

Also, check with used car lots for something in the way of leads, on cars they wouldn't take in trade because of engine problems.

I bought some very good Chevies that were traded in and sat on the back of the lot too long.

A couple of repair shops locally have been good as far as finding cars that had bad engines and the owner just wanted to get rid of them.

I got my Yugo for free, that way.


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## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

You have to be prepared to waste a lot of time looking at cars that are not as you interpret the description. For whatever reason, bet it pride, salesmanship, or arrogance, many people think that their used car is always worth more than it is. Those who act like they are doing you a favor to sell your their car will never sell it at all.

You have an added disadvantage in that you live in the Midwest where cars have a short shelf life. Here in Seattle, you could buy 5-speed mid-90's Saturns in actual good shape all day long for around $1500.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Going to look at an '86 Fiero that looks to be in excellent condition. However, I can't tell the guy it's for a conversion...he appears to be a Fiero enthusiast, and would not likely approve of me "destroying" a collector car.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Wow, I didn't realize I had it so good over here. There are a few saturns on craigslist and kijiji that are all $1500 or less and seem to be in great shape.

First one I saw might have been off the show room floor, just a touch of rust under the rear truck and some very minor weathering of the weather stripping, no scratches and no dents, but it turned out to be an automatic.

The other one I went to seen was a little worse off with a few scratches and a sized rear drum, but had absolutely no rust and I could have bought it for $150, but she doesn't seem to have papers so it looks like the deal is off.

I'll let you guys in on a little (or maybe not so little) secret about the early saturns:

The engine has defictive piston rings and is prone to loose oil control long before other parts of the powertrain wear out. Its got little to do with how the car may have been abused and some will develope the problem no matter what. Look for cars that are listed as "burning oil" or needing TLC. These cars don't rust like others do and have a good undercoat from the factory, so don't be afraid of one thats been sitting for a little while.

I'm pretty much sold on the saturn though, light weight, aerodynamic, and the crash safety is still competative to this day. I've seen crast test Utube videos and its pretty impressive for such an old car. Still hate the automatic seatbelts though.


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## sailfish11 (Sep 15, 2007)

I'll start off by saying that I paid $7500 for my donor (many of you will probably skip to the next post at this point). For those of you still reading, I found mine on Craigslist. The seller had been converting it to be a race car so he had removed the original engine, replaced several of the steel body panels with lightweight fiberglass, beefed up the suspension and added disk brakes. All great mods for an EV.

My point is that a lot of racing mods (at least the ones to the frame/body/suspension) are equally good for EVs, so racing forums and classifieds are another place to look for good donors. A lot of people start building race cars only to run out of motivation (and/or money).


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## Shocked! (Jun 30, 2008)

Don't give up. Being a good buyer means having patience. LOTS of.

Look in lots of places. Try your local Craigs list?


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

I've looked everywhere for a suitable donor...newspaper, all the online for sale sites, craigslist, ebay, etc. Going to look at a Fiero this weekend. A little more than I wanted to spend on a donor, but it appears to be represented well by all the extra photos the seller emailed me. So we'll see. I've been looking for a donor for over a month. Hopefully this'll be the one.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> I've looked everywhere for a suitable donor...newspaper, all the online for sale sites, craigslist, ebay, etc. Going to look at a Fiero this weekend. A little more than I wanted to spend on a donor, but it appears to be represented well by all the extra photos the seller emailed me. So we'll see. I've been looking for a donor for over a month. Hopefully this'll be the one.


Getting one that is in good condition to begin with seems like a shame sometimes as they are running well, etc.. but I look at is as MUCH less work in the conversion. I paid more for my donor than I originally hoped, but it is very clean in side and out and is well optioned, which is something I wanted. Also, don't forget to put a value on your time spent on things like mechanical/body repair... that adds up as well. If you don't have to do those things, then it's worth more.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> I've looked everywhere for a suitable donor...newspaper, all the online for sale sites, craigslist, ebay, etc. Going to look at a Fiero this weekend. A little more than I wanted to spend on a donor, but it appears to be represented well by all the extra photos the seller emailed me. So we'll see. I've been looking for a donor for over a month. Hopefully this'll be the one.


Here's a Saturn $850...if u wanna come to Canada.....lol

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/cto/865260341.html

Good luck


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Well I went and looked at the Fiero today. Overall, a solid car for 22 years old. However, it will need to be painted ($1500 professionally), no alternative there.

Most of the problems are cosmetic...the carpet and upholstery needs a good washing, the headliner needs replacing. The driver's seat is no longer adjustable (rusted in its tracks, but I can probably re-condition it).

The brakes are my main concern (they are in need of full replacment). Do I simply upgrade with Fiero-designed parts (like vented, cross-drilled rotors and performance pads), or go this route with essentially a full brake system re-design?

It would seem that an car might have these issues, but I'm told the Fiero had a weak brake system to begin with.

The only other problems are that the air conditioning does not work, the power windows roll down very slowly and the power locks are not consistent (they don't always lock, so you have to try a few times). All of those things are very fixable and parts are readily available.

Anyone have some comments? I can get this car for around $1200-$1500, depending on how much I can negotiate the price (but the guy's ready to move it). I test drove it today, and it felt solid...just bad brakes.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> Well I went and looked at the Fiero today. Overall, a solid car for 22 years old. However, it will need to be painted ($1500 professionally), no alternative there.
> 
> Most of the problems are cosmetic...the carpet and upholstery needs a good washing, the headliner needs replacing. The driver's seat is no longer adjustable (rusted in its tracks, but I can probably re-condition it).
> 
> ...


so... about 3k total investment and would need to towed around to have some of that work done? Wouldn't it make more sense to spend 3k for a car in good condition that runs well now so you can see that everything else works?


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> so... about 3k total investment and would need to towed around to have some of that work done? Wouldn't it make more sense to spend 3k for a car in good condition that runs well now so you can see that everything else works?


Well, it all depends. I have a friend that can repaint if for less than $500, but he's not a professional auto body guy.

If I merely upgrade the brakes with new pads and vented rotors, the whole brake job will only run a few extra hundred dollars. However, if I upgrade to corvette rotors, calipers and the like, so as to substantially increase stopping power, I'll be spending more like $1500-$2000 (for a ready-made, drop-in kit) on the brakes. I'm just not sure if a new set of better rotors and better pads will do it.

I guess I just don't know if I'll have to do that extensive of a brake job on a nicer, different model car. Say I go with a Saturn. The brakes and suspension need to be upgraded on that kind of car too, based on some of the conversion examples I've seen. So really the only "repair" I need to do that would cost me more than a "nice" conversion car would be the paint job.


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

The stopping ability of a car is also determined by the footprint of the tire . EVs usually use a tire that has a smaller footprint to lower rolling resistance . So the big brakes may be of no help with low rolling resistance tires . Just need to look at everything as a whole . J.W.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

ww321q said:


> The stopping ability of a car is also determined by the footprint of the tire . EVs usually use a tire that has a smaller footprint to lower rolling resistance . So the big brakes may be of no help with low rolling resistance tires . Just need to look at everything as a whole . J.W.


What's everyone experiencing when they don't upgrade the brakes? Let's say I just put vented rotors and high performance street pads on the car...ones that are direct Fiero replacements...what'll my braking be like then?


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

Why don't you just get it rolling down the road and then test the brakes ? You would know then and not be guessing that you need more brakes . A brake up grade is easy to do after the car is on the road . I've been having a hard time to really get motivated to work on mine the last week or two . J.W.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

ww321q said:


> Why don't you just get it rolling down the road and then test the brakes ? You would know then and not be guessing that you need more brakes .


Because in my situation, if I buy the Fiero I just looked at, I'll need to put new brakes on it to start. I don't want to put all new brakes on it, and then decide shortly after conversion that I need to put larger, more capable brakes on it. Perhaps I'll shoot a few emails to the guys on EV Album who have converted Fieros...see what they say about stock brakes.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> What's everyone experiencing when they don't upgrade the brakes? Let's say I just put vented rotors and high performance street pads on the car...ones that are direct Fiero replacements...what'll my braking be like then?


you know.. here's my take on this. I own a new car (the prius) and a very old car (65 rambler wagon). I imagine the difference in braking when adding the weight of batteries to be no different (and probably less stark) than the different characteristics of my two cars.. Hell, my Miata if 14 years old and I don't think it stops nearly as well as it should.. but I have never felt unsafe or out of control in any of my cars.

Just my two cents worth.. btw, the Rambler does have power, though I've had two Ramblers with manual brakes. They work... you just have to step Harder!


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

I took the liberty of shooting an email to everyone on EV Album who published their email address. I received 4 replies, all very similar. Most are saying just add the power brake vacuum assist, and stock brakes will work fine. One gentleman said he required the use of an '88 due to the brake redesign that year, but all others were fine with pre-88's IIRC. Additionally, none of the guys that replied seemed to have modified their suspensions.

This changes the game significantly for me. I was all worried that I'd need $2k-$3k in brakes/suspension alone. Silly me.

Now I have to decide if the other issues are a deal breaker for the particular car I looked at.


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## d-bledsoe (May 22, 2008)

If it were me, and i'd have to spend 500 or more to paint the car + another 500+ to redo the interior + the cost of brakes, i'd look for another car that might be a bit more money, but were you dont have to do any of that stuff.

A quick search on craigslist this morning for your area:
92 honda prelude - http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/862167737.html
1988 FIERO - http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/857566446.html
1985 Toyota MR2 - http://lansing.craigslist.org/ctd/839034029.html
1996 Dodge Dakota - http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/831814999.html
1996 olds aurora - http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/817298160.html

So you can see just searching clutch and gasket i found 5 cars that i'd look at and all sound better then that feiro that needs the work.

-Derek


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## Doofus McFancyPants (Jul 10, 2008)

Another source for donors is some dealers.
Every once in a while you see the dealers offer a "I will pay you $1000 for your trade in WHAT EVER the condition"
Those probably end up with some pretty devent cars with DEAD engines. and if they are getting $500 for SCRAP - you could get away with a devent donor pretty cheep.

Would still need to be cautious about its condition - but would be another source for Donors.

I am lucky - i plan on converting my current car ( 2001 Nissan Altima) to electric when the engine dies ( only 82K on it now) so I have my donor and i know the condition....

Steve


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

I think I found my donor car. It's a 1997 Jetta GL, dark blue, 240,000 miles, 5-speed manual, manual windows. Drove it today and it handles ok. There are some rust spots on the paint, but the underbody is almost pristine. It needs a replacement trunk lid, rear bumper cover and the a/c doesn't work. However, everything else is in great shape, including the interior. Asking price is $1450, but the guy said he'd take $1200 (blue book in current condition is about $2100). He's waiting a few days to re-list it on craigslist so I can think it over.

I've discovered that all the "affordable" cars here in Michigan have serious rust issues. The ones that don't have rust issues on the painted surfaces, have rusted out underbodies/strut towers, etc. Those that have great underbodies have terrible cosmetic problems with the paint.

This one is a nice compromise, although I'll still have to fix some rust and repaint it...can't seem to escape that on a Michigan car older than 8 years. However, even the weatherstripping is in great shape. Just need to decide now.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

If you're comfortable with the work that needs to be done, then I'd say go for it. Iknow what you mean about rust in the Midwest; I'm in IN. As for me, when I found my donor even though it was far more than I wanted to spend, I was tired of looking around at junk cars. I really liked this car to begin with so it wasn't too hard to just pony up the extra $1000 and buy it.. Also, I had rec'd an update from a local guy on his conversion and I just figured.. ah the hell with it, If i don't buy something I may never get started... JUMP IN!


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## jaspersk (Jun 26, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> I think I found my donor car. It's a 1997 Jetta GL, dark blue, 240,000 miles, 5-speed manual, manual windows.


Congrats! Great choice!! I am converting a '95 Jetta which is a nearly identical car. Feel free to email me with thoughts or questions, (steveskarda(at)gmail(dot)com). Mine had a couple of quarter inch rust posts. I have no auto body experience but decided to figure out how to fix them on my own. Given that I have no experience, I was pretty happy with how it turned out. I grinded off the rust, used the KBS coating process (same as Por-15) to seal anything that I might have missed, and used paint from Paintscratch.com. It is not a perfect job but I exceeded my low expectations of what I could do myself. My only regret is not buying more seal coat because I wasn't able to coat an entire panel and that is the only part that is noticable.


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## VoigtRA (Aug 12, 2008)

I think it's something about Michigan. I spent over two months looking for an S-10 to convert, pouring over all Craig's list ads from Lansing, Detroit, Ann Arbor, Jackson, and Saginaw and posting a want ad in the metro Detroit Craigs. Most trucks from late 90's that owner's claimed were "perfect" condition were either rust buckets or construction site drop outs (on the 2nd or 3rd engine). 

I finally found my second choice for a donor vehicle (a Ranger - although it's labelled a Mazda) in Toledo via Craigs list - and it cost me almost a grand more than I originally hoped to spend. If you haven't already considered it, expand your search to the other Craigs list postings in Michigan - there are 4 or 5. You may have to drive an hour, but the greater selection makes it worth the trip. Also, remember to search for both "S-10" and "S10" on search line. Good luck hunting.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

when considering the quality of car.... buying from the southwest and transport or a roadtrip home might be worthwhile! Here in NM, 10 year old cars generally have NO rust; and would most likely be able to drive back to midwest or either coast. Even a glider might be worth transport if the body/trans was still in good shape.

so... you might want to keep an eye on Albuquerque craigslist too


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

VoigtRA said:


> If you haven't already considered it, expand your search to the other Craigs list postings in Michigan...


I have searched all of the craigslist posts in Michigan, some in the Chicago area and Indiana as well. I'm getting tired of spending a few hours a night searching all the ads for a suitable car. Now that I've checked around for parts/prices on the repair stuff I would need to do, and given the structure of the Jetta is in great shape, I'm comfortable with what needs to be done. I'll actually be driving it as an IC for awhile before I start conversion, now that winter is fast approaching.

So I made an offer of $1000 on the car. We'll see if the guy will deal. He told me $1200 yesterday when I drove it, but I'll see if he accepts my low-ball...I'll still negotiate with him though.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

We agreed upon a price of $1100 for the 1997 Jetta GL. Due to my work schedule, I may not be able to pick the car up until Oct. 24th or 25th. However, I may be able to get the car by this Friday. I will start a new thread once I have the car in hand. Now I just have to keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't back out on the deal...but he agreed to close the listing, and he's planning on taking insurance off it now that we made a deal.


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## Jzap (Aug 13, 2008)

brent.massey said:


> A want ad is a great idea. I'm always afraid that I'll get a bunch of spam ads though...
> 
> I think I'll post a want ad tonight, we'll see what happens


There are a couple in my area that I may have considered if I were ready to start a project.
How about this?

http://dayton.craigslist.org/cto/879437593.html

Or this...

http://dayton.craigslist.org/cto/876757009.html

A bit of a haul for you, but maybe worth a look? I think the Saab would be cool...


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I came across these I know nothing about them but they look like good cars CHEAP

http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpos...mmethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=12&clearoff=1

Brian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

The mitsubishi will need to have the door relpaced. Price that out before doing anything.

Rust at the lower door seams (also hood and trunk perimeter joint seams) cannot be repaired because of the nature of the sheet metal joint. The best you can hope for is to slow it down with some wax, or oil, but it will never stop.

Older cars also have rocker panels and pillars in separate pieces that have to be wielded together and then sealed. These are also VERY important joints to inspect because not only are they very difficult to repair if rusty, but unlike the doors, they play a critical role in the structure and safety of the car (doors do play a structural role as well, but not as much as pillars).

The name of this came is patience. I like the saturn because of its resistance to corrosion, but it is still possible to find other good cars that are not rusted out. Sadly, the light weight imports are more vulnerable to rust.

Newer cars have fewer joint seams, and better corrosion protection with many more parts being galvanized, but are also more expencive.


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