# Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

get them and a few extra that you can cut the voltage in 1/2 and have a great accessory battery .. how much does he want for ea battery ?? I need at least 9 . 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Josh and Jenifer<mailto:[email protected]> 
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY



How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have a
friend of mine that has a surplus of NiCad batteries that were from a
surplus auction from the military, he thinks that they are 1500amp. they
come in stainless steel cases wired up for 24vdc. does anyone know anything
about these? he said that they got two pickup truck loads of the things, 
so of course i was wondering if i can use them in my EV conversion..... 
what do you think?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

ps my e mail address is [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
----- Original Message ----- 
From: FRED JEANETTE MERTENS<mailto:[email protected]> 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]> 
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY


get them and a few extra that you can cut the voltage in 1/2 and have a great accessory battery .. how much does he want for ea battery ?? I need at least 9 . 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Josh and Jenifer<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> 
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3Cmailto:[email protected]>> 
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY



How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have a
friend of mine that has a surplus of NiCad batteries that were from a
surplus auction from the military, he thinks that they are 1500amp. they
come in stainless steel cases wired up for 24vdc. does anyone know anything
about these? he said that they got two pickup truck loads of the things, 
so of course i was wondering if i can use them in my EV conversion..... 
what do you think?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html<http://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html<http://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html%3Chttp://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html>>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

Doesn't look like your thread got answered.
My Civic runs the 8V golf cart batts. Gets to 72 mph,
40 mi. range (though not both, and not in winter),
with 165 Ah capacity (as you mention, running 144V). 
Another way to put it is that you can yank 10-12 kWh
out of them, and at 300 wH/mi. that takes you your
36-40 mi.

Hope that helps, 

--- FRED JEANETTE MERTENS <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > ps my e mail address is
> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*

<<< How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have a
friend of mine that has a surplus of NiCad batteries that were from a
surplus auction from the military, he thinks that they are 1500amp. they
come in stainless steel cases wired up for 24vdc. does anyone know anything
about these? he said that they got two pickup truck loads of the things,
so of course i was wondering if i can use them in my EV conversion.....
what do you think? >>>

Maybe 1500amp peak, but not Ah - typically 20 to 35Ah for aircraft 
starter cells. John Wayland used these in an early incarnation of WZ. 
You can't easily parallel these for more capacity, but if you're 
motivated, others have done it.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*

yeah, that is what the battery was used for, do you have a link to john
about how to use these in an ev?




> cowtown wrote:
> >
> > <<< How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have
> > a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*

> yeah, that is what the battery was used for, do you have a link to john
> about how to use these in an ev?

He didn't parallel them, just a single string for drag racing, but the 
folks with BB660 cells may have some experience as parallels.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

Amps and AmpHours are totally different things.

You could theoretically have a 1AH battery that can produce 1500 amps.

Amps is a measure of current flow, amp hours is how long it an flow at a
given rate.
I.e 1 amp for 100 hours is 100 amp hours, 100 amps for 1 hour is also 100
amp hours.

1500 amps for 10 seconds is only about 4 amp hours.

1500 amps with no reference to time tells you NOTHING about the number of
amp hours.

As for what a "typical" EV requires, that kind of depends on how far you
want it to go.
Some 144V EVs only have 40 amp hour packs, and some have 400 amp hour packs.

Just to make things more difficult, with lead-acid batteries (the type
typically used) the available Amp Hours changes for any given pack
depending on how fast you take the current out.

I.e. a pack might have a 200 Amp Hour rating but only at the 20 hr rate
(i.e. 10 amps for 20 hours)
When drained at the 1 hour rate, the same pack will only produce about 120
Amp Hours (I.e. about 120 amps for 1 hour)

>
> How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have a
> friend of mine that has a surplus of NiCad batteries that were from a
> surplus auction from the military, he thinks that they are 1500amp. they
> come in stainless steel cases wired up for 24vdc. does anyone know
> anything
> about these? he said that they got two pickup truck loads of the things,
> so of course i was wondering if i can use them in my EV conversion.....
> what do you think?
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

the batteries were used as helicopter starting batteries. some other guys 
said that they are probably 35 to 40 amp hour batteries.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY


> Amps and AmpHours are totally different things.
>
> You could theoretically have a 1AH battery that can produce 1500 amps.
>
> Amps is a measure of current flow, amp hours is how long it an flow at a
> given rate.
> I.e 1 amp for 100 hours is 100 amp hours, 100 amps for 1 hour is also 100
> amp hours.
>
> 1500 amps for 10 seconds is only about 4 amp hours.
>
> 1500 amps with no reference to time tells you NOTHING about the number of
> amp hours.
>
> As for what a "typical" EV requires, that kind of depends on how far you
> want it to go.
> Some 144V EVs only have 40 amp hour packs, and some have 400 amp hour 
> packs.
>
> Just to make things more difficult, with lead-acid batteries (the type
> typically used) the available Amp Hours changes for any given pack
> depending on how fast you take the current out.
>
> I.e. a pack might have a 200 Amp Hour rating but only at the 20 hr rate
> (i.e. 10 amps for 20 hours)
> When drained at the 1 hour rate, the same pack will only produce about 120
> Amp Hours (I.e. about 120 amps for 1 hour)
>
>>
>> How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have a
>> friend of mine that has a surplus of NiCad batteries that were from a
>> surplus auction from the military, he thinks that they are 1500amp. 
>> they
>> come in stainless steel cases wired up for 24vdc. does anyone know
>> anything
>> about these? he said that they got two pickup truck loads of the things,
>> so of course i was wondering if i can use them in my EV conversion.....
>> what do you think?
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
> -- 
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

They sound like BB600s. They are usually rated at 30 amp hours which is the important number for figuring out how many to use. The 1500 amps is their short circuit rating which tells you how much instantaneous power they can deliver. They are a bit lighter then lead acid and do not suffer capacity loss in cooler weather like lead acid does. In a very efficient EV with a 144 volt string in everyday driving you might be able to squeeze 30 miles range, 20 is more realistic.

There is a Yahoo group that started as a subset of EVDL list members dedicated specifically to these batteries.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/BB600/

damon 


> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:54:32 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY
>
>
> How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack? I have a
> friend of mine that has a surplus of NiCad batteries that were from a
> surplus auction from the military, he thinks that they are 1500amp. they
> come in stainless steel cases wired up for 24vdc. does anyone know anything
> about these? he said that they got two pickup truck loads of the things,
> so of course i was wondering if i can use them in my EV conversion.....
> what do you think?
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/BATTERY-CAPACITY-tp14520374s25542p14520374.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*

If they are BB600's, I am looking for a truck full of them for my
conversion... let me know if he wants to sell....

Z



> damon henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > They sound like BB600s. They are usually rated at 30 amp hours which is the important number for figuring out how many to use. The 1500 amps is their short circuit rating which tells you how much instantaneous power they can deliver. They are a bit lighter then lead acid and do not suffer capacity loss in cooler weather like lead acid does. In a very efficient EV with a 144 volt string in everyday driving you might be able to squeeze 30 miles range, 20 is more realistic.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] BATTERY CAPACITY*



> On 27 Dec 2007 at 15:54, Josh and Jenifer wrote:
> 
> > How many amp/hr would a typical Ev require for a 144VDC pack?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*

I know that the Ampere-Hour rating of a battery is related to the battery 
ampere draw over a certain amount of time.

A 250 AH battery is rated for 12.5 amps per hour for 20 hours.

A 250 AH battery is de-rated to 187.5 AH at 75 amps for 2.5 hours.

A 250 AH battery is de-rated to 166.0 AH at 1000 amps for 10 minutes.

Therefore the battery ampere or if you want to call it Cranking Amp that is 
cranking over a motor is related to the amount of usable Ampere-Hour that is 
available for running a EV for a certain amount of time.

According to the battery equipment manual it states:

If a 6 volt battery is rated for 1000 amps at 10 minutes, then:
10 minutes / 60 = 0.166 hrs
0.166 hrs x 1000 amps = 166 usable ampere-hour for 10 minutes.


Using the Battery Reserved Minute method for a 6 volt 250 AH battery that 
has 150 Reserved Minutes at 75 amps:

150 minutes / 60 = 2.5 hrs
2.5 hrs x 75 amps = 187.5 usable ampere-hour for 2.5 hours

Roland


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*

Please, use correct units. Saying things like "amps per hour" is
confusing, especially to new members.

http://www.evsource.com/articles/mind_your_units.php

250Ah is 12.5 amps (not amps per hour) for 20 hours. Amps times hours
is amp-hours.

An amp is a measure of the flow of electrons; it measures how many
electrons per second are flowing through something. When you multiply
that by time, you get amp-hours, which is a measure of how many
electrons passed in total. Multiplying current by time gives you
capacity, just like multiplying speed by time gives you distance.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I know that the Ampere-Hour rating of a battery is related to the battery
> > ampere draw over a certain amount of time.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > Therefore the battery ampere or if you want to call it
> > Cranking Amp that is cranking over a motor is related to the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*

Look in the Link 10 manual. It list one part of the formula as:

I1 = 225 amp hours/20 = 11.25 amps (not 11.25 AH) It means 11.25 amps per 
hour for 20 hours.

You misunderstand me as amps per hour as for amp hour.

This 11.25 amp is the battery amp that can be maintain for 20 hours.

On the Link 10 E-meter, the first display is battery voltage, the next is 
the battery ampere, the next is AH and the last one is Time.

I am talking about the battery ampere in this calculation.

I drive every day for 1 mile at 30 mph in 2 minutes. The E-meter displays 
2.6 AH

The E-meter calculates this as 80A/(60min/2) = 2.66 AH which is close 
enough.

Therefore the Ampere-Hour is relative to the battery ampere over a set 
amount of time.

It also uses a Reserve Minutes formula that I use all the time to calculated 
the actual usable ampere hour.

Roland 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Battery Capacity*



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Look in the Link 10 manual. It list one part of the formula as:
> >
> > I1 =3D 225 amp hours/20 =3D 11.25 amps (not 11.25 AH) It means 11.2=
> ...


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