# [EVDL] OT: why all of us are working on EVs



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Elithion wrote:
> >
> > These pictures remind me why we are driving EVs, and why I wish more
> > people did.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In addition, these earlier photos from boston.com also:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/oil_reaches_louisiana_shores.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ehhhh, EV's are not going to change this anytime soon, oil is used in such
huge quantities for manufacturing there will always be a huge demand for it
until its all gone.

Look at EV's themselves, any donor car less than 20 years old or any new
manufactured EV is made of mostly plastic... which comes from oil.



> Dave Hymers <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > In addition, these earlier photos from boston.com also:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cole wrote:
> 
> > Ehhhh, EV's are not going to change this anytime soon, oil is used
> > in such
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oil should be use for nothing EXCEPT making durable goods, it should be
suspended completely as a transportation fuel. We should be using oil and
its distillates SOULY for making EVs and renewable energy systems.

theres an average of 7 gallons of oil involved in the production of the
average truck tire. We realize oil is in almost everything we see before us.
And yes, we're not holding our breath.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cole wrote:
> 
> > Look at EV's themselves, any donor car less than 20 years old or any
> > new
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Heres page 2 of a good article I should be reading ...

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining2.htm
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm 90% with you, but how would you power airplanes, long haul trucks, and transoceanic ships? 




________________________________
From: Dave Hymers <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 9:23:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: why all of us are working on EVs

Oil should be use for nothing EXCEPT making durable goods, it should be
suspended completely as a transportation fuel. We should be using oil and
its distillates SOLELY for making EVs and renewable energy systems. ...



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

transoceanic ships should be sail.



> David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I'm 90% with you, but how would you power airplanes, long haul trucks, and
> > transoceanic ships?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I'm 90% with you, but how would you power airplanes, long haul trucks, and
> > transoceanic ships?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Airplanes are tough... biodeisel maybe.

CNG for long haul trucks and trains.

Nuclear for transoceanic ships.




> David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
> > I'm 90% with you, but how would you power airplanes, long haul
> > trucks, and transoceanic ships?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 4 Jun 2010 at 8:33, Cole wrote:
> 
> > EV's are not going to change this anytime soon ...
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> From: David Dymaxion 

> I'm 90% with you, but how would you power airplanes, 
> long haul trucks, and transoceanic ships?

Having just picked up the rolling chassis of the next
project ('71 Yamaha HT-1 with only 3400 miles, good
original paint) I'll toss in my CDN$0.02...

Airplanes: Most of what flies doesn't really need to.
C'mon...flying hydroponically grown peppers from
Israel to Canada in the winter? Sorry, man. Most
people who fly could choose other options. Before
hitting "flame" note that I said "most."

I see trucks on the roads in Oregon and Washington,
with the "Bimbo Bread" logo on the side. I ate that
stuff in Beijing -- it's a Chinese brand. Are they
flying buns in now?

Long Haul Trucks: The reason we have long haul
trucks is because there is not enough long haul
rail. Why are we taking containers off a ship
from Asia and putting them one at a time on
trucks? Trucking, like the old dray wagons that
met the trains in each town, should be short
haul.

Ships can sail. It's only because we've got a
"just in time" inventory and manufacturing system
that has to have precise timing of material input
that we have to have container ships.

Most of the reason things are the way they are is
not because it was "best" in some social sense but
because somebody has a vested interest in getting
people to use more of something. If that marks me
as a frothing radical, so be it.

While it's nice to hope for neat technological
solutions like Popular Mechanics and Popular
Science has between the covers, it may be the
best solution (in fact, the only solution) is to
simply say, "We're not going to do that as much
as we used to."

So I ride my electric to work and on errands --
delivered a 7-foot wood fence post to a neigh-
bour the other evening -- and work on another EV
in my idle moments. (Darn few of those now, it's
farming season...)

Cheers,

ch

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A funny image that came to mind: A supertanker with sails...




________________________________
From: Cole <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 12:06:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: why all of us are working on EVs

transoceanic ships should be sail.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry there's no way that will work. The energy consumption on those 
ships is huge. Nuke is the cleanest practical solution. Nuclear 
powered ships go 30 years or more between refueling. Think about the 
millions of gallons saved.



> Roger W <x[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Or deployable rafts of flexible solar behind tranoceanic ships
> > combined with flexible solar coated sails.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sounds like the Pickens Plan to me. Sounds good. We just need an
effective national leader to make it a national plan, to show how it will
add prosperity and U.S. advantage/supremacy, and SELL it. Sell it so that
both political parties think it was their idea. Sell it so the private
sector takes off with it. Sell it so that rather than taking a step back,
it's more of a sideways step.

I think that part of it is starting to happen (Tesla's and other EV's
hitting the streets). I also think that the racing side of EV's is a great
way to "make it cool".

Brett


> Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Airplanes are tough... biodeisel maybe.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines fame has already introduced a biodiesel
blend that he has been using in at least part of his fleet since Febuary of
2008.



> Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Airplanes are tough... biodeisel maybe.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Imagine if we required all the big oil companies to invest 10% of 
their profits into sustainable energy development. That would be over 
10 billion per year for just the top 5 oil companies.



> Thos True <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines fame has already introduced a
> > biodiesel
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Not to get sucked into this OT topic, but Although it would have the
ability to have tremendous sails with it's ballast, I am more afraid of
the fact that most super tankers are old, So old that 65% of the hulls
have rusted away and France and the US will not allow registry. They are
finding countries with lax rules to keep what they have going and that
is why they break apart so easily :-( We may not have to worry about
super tankers much longer.

If they can't afford to build new ones the way they are or trusted to
operate them safely, would you really want them "going nuclear"?

I agree it is a good idea in theory, and nuclear means electric.
And nuclear could mean also batteries for regen and peak shaving. Like a
submarine.
But. at the moment, I would only trust our navy or maybe NASA to operate
a nuclear powered vessel.

> Sorry there's no way that will work. The energy consumption on those
> ships is huge. Nuke is the cleanest practical solution. Nuclear
> powered ships go 30 years or more between refueling. Think about the
> millions of gallons saved. 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hay I like the Nuke idea, but use a "Surplus" navy ship (Perhaps from old
USSR) as a big tug boat and pull three or four supertankers from port to
port.
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Not to get sucked into this OT topic, but Although it would have the
> > ability to have tremendous sails with it's ballast, I am more afraid of
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Roger Heuckeroth


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Sorry there's no way that will work. The energy consumption on those
> > ships is huge.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Apologies for the off-topic post...

http://www.shadotec.com/commercial.html



> David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
> > A funny image that came to mind: A supertanker with sails...
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Check out the Thomas W. Lawson...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Lawson_(ship)

furthermore, the min argument against gigantic sailing ships has always been
their top speed, which is usually around 9 knots, whilst supertankers can
hit 14 knots.

But with the price of oil as it has been, no supertanker has been run faster
than 8 knots for the last 5 years, to reduce fuel consumption.

Therefore sailing ships would be faster, quieter, less expensive to operate,
cheaper to build and with much less environmental impact.

Coupled with sophisticated PID or fuzzy controllers to continually adjust
the sails for maximum efficiency I'm sure the ships could go even faster.





> Martin WINLOW <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Apologies for the off-topic post...
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Evan Tuer wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Roger Heuckeroth
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...


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