# Has anyone ever actually made either of these DIY controllers?



## Benjaminpalma (Oct 25, 2017)

1. Instructables.com - 200kW AC Motor Controller

2. Instructables.com - Homemade 100 HP Motor Controller

...?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Yes
I made one of the 100 hp controllers - this was my first "electronics" project since I decided that electronics was NOT for me back in the 70's

I made a couple of mistakes - like leaving the completed unit is a mucky environment for a year and I did blow up my first one!

Got some replacement parts from Paul and my Mk2 lasted for about three years until I replaced it with a DC version of the 200 Kw one 

Paul sent me that one as a "Beta Test" unit - he had done the hard yards I just had to do some assembly work

That was five years ago and I am extremely happy with the result! 

The AC controller is the initial design - the DC version just uses the three phases added together - so it's actually a 600 kW version - I'm using it at 400 kW


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Yes.


Those are formerly the "Open ReVolt" open source project I believe.

Around here they're usually called the "P&S Controller" or "Paul and Sabrina Controller".

Several (many?) people have built and used them.

Sadly, they were recently moving and someone stole their whole moving truck, complete with everything they own, so he can't sell you boards.

As I recall, there's some bugs or errors on the last version that is commonly posted, but if you ask for new ones Paul (member here) will send them to you if he has time.


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## Benjaminpalma (Oct 25, 2017)

Awesome - thanks, guys - great to hear.

Just seemed almost too good to be true when comparing the cost of this open-source controller with manufactured ones.

And some of those instructions look fairly intimidating... 



MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Sadly, they were recently moving and someone stole their whole moving truck, complete with everything they own, so he can't sell you boards.


I feel almost physically sick reading that. How does that happen to such a generous couple?

Are Paul and/or Sabrina on this forum?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

My opinion is somewhat negative.

i tried to get a copy of the schematics for the DC version to examine the details of how it works, etc., but found them to be very difficult to obtain (links that don't work), and then very confusing to follow or understand.

Somebody on here was trying to build one and had issues getting it to work, but it was impossible to troubleshoot the issue due to the lack of decent schematics.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well actually i have made several of AC 3phase inverter iterations with Pauls control board. None worked in a car beyond 100Vdc. I dont think control board was to blame, but rather my design of DC link. 
Since then i rather choose already built inverter (Volt, Prius etc...) and replace control boards. It worked like 3x now and those inverters are quite impresive.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> Those are formerly the "Open ReVolt" open source project I believe.
> ...


I built a P&S controller a few years ago and Paul built one for me.
Never met them personally but did talk on phone to Paul once and corresponded Sabrina.
I am happy with the controllers and Paul was very patient with me as I am a total electronic dunce.

They seam like nice kids and it really twists my gut to hear they have been ripped off.

I don't have enough to help them out by my self but if there is a fund for them I will contribute.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

arber333 said:


> Since then i rather choose already built inverter (Volt, Prius etc...) and replace control boards. It worked like 3x now and those inverters are quite impresive.


Could you go into the details of that?

That's what I would like to do, but I haven't seen any projects that work for replacing the control boards yet. I know Damien is working on one for Prius (and Lexus) inverters.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Could you go into the details of that?
> 
> That's what I would like to do, but I haven't seen any projects that work for replacing the control boards yet. I know Damien is working on one for Prius (and Lexus) inverters.


I saw Paul also built one version of his controler for Volt inverter. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wol8Uck_C1A

My iteration was first built for ACIM motors with Volt inverter here: 
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/03/one-more-inverter-interface/
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/chevy-volt-opel-ampera-inverter-179922p9.html

Then i adapted Lebowski controler with FOC code and commutation sensor to run Leaf motor. The car that was first run with it was Mazda RX8.
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/2019/05/01/mazda-rx8-lives/

Now i am working on Peugeot 406coupe conversion with complete Leaf drivetrain and Volt inverter.
https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/2019/05/22/subframe-is-in/

If you are interested i can send you one of my test boards. You can fully drive a car with it. However it still lacks some of the smarter functions like precharge control, motor and inverter temp control, CAN bus interface, resolver interface... To get feedback from motor now i use RLS encoder with magnet on a fitting on the end of motor shaft.

I intend to make a new PCB revision that will encompass everything, but i am not quite there yet. Maybe i will also incorporate AC compressor control into the new board.

Send me PM with adress for shipping if you are interested.

A


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

arber333 said:


> If you are interested i can send you one of my test boards. You can fully drive a car with it.


PM sent.

That would be perfect, since I don't have a garage, and can't park my project on the street until it's licensed, and can't be licensed until it's insured, and can't be insured without being driveable. (Right now I'm renting a storage unit, I picked up my car 2 weeks ago).

Then I can tinker worry-free while it's parked in the street, and look at other controller options.



> However it still lacks some of the smarter functions like precharge control, motor and inverter temp control, CAN bus interface, resolver interface...


I need it to: Rotate the motor.

So that's perfect.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

A better question has anyone used the Toyota mgr in an EV conversion


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> I need it to: Rotate the motor.
> 
> So that's perfect.


Hah! That it can do admirably . Mazda RX8 owner was at my place yesterday and he claims he was able to run 140km/h on the highway on 200Vdc with field weakening. Of course he retains original transmission.


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## Benjaminpalma (Oct 25, 2017)

Duncan said:


> Yes
> I made one of the 100 hp controllers - this was my first "electronics" project since I decided that electronics was NOT for me back in the 70's





MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Yes.





arber333 said:


> Well actually i have made several of AC 3phase inverter iterations with Pauls control board.





dragonsgate said:


> I built a P&S controller a few years ago.





arber333 said:


> I saw Paul also built one version of his controler for Volt inverter.


Wonderful to hear. It leaves me wondering why factory-built ones are so expensive?

Do you all have electronics degrees?

Could someone with a bag of bits and an ability to solder make one?

Does anyone produce a ‘painting-by-numbers’ complete yourself product – an Ikea version, if you will?


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## 59Morris (Feb 26, 2017)

I have built one of the P&S controllers. I found the "how to" instructions to be good enough to get me going in the right direction. I am using it with an standard AC Induction Motor (HPEVS AC15). It bench tested OK, so I put it in the car to test, and discovered there are some software issues yet to be solved. Paul has been VERY helpful, but the day I began serious testing was the day he was robbed.  
I am just waiting for he and his family to get settled so he has time once again to work out the final issues, as I am a huge fan of this project!!


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Benjaminpalma said:


> Wonderful to hear. It leaves me wondering why factory-built ones are so expensive?
> 
> Do you all have electronics degrees?
> 
> ...


That is a perfect description of the instructions about how to build Paul's 100hp controller!

I'm a mechanical engineer - and I chose that over electronics due to various disasters before I went to UNI 
35 years later I was able to build the 100 hp board by "monkey see monkey do" 

I learned an absolute ton in the process and I would well recommend it

The software is the scary part!


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

I built the controller, and it was a bit challenging in a few areas. I had never worked with sheet metal, and there was some troubleshooting involved. It works very, very well, however. I'm running it, with the high power control board, up to 200kw, but it can go a lot higher. The best I could probably do is 85 or 90 mph, but that's due to sag on my small battery pack, not the controller. 

Paul is a great guy to work with.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well first there are some downsides too. 

1. Paul didnt implement field weakening at the time i was using one. I may have outdated info, please comment on that one. 

2. PID is really pain to setup manually. Automatic setting works only for ACIM motors. I couldnt get it to work for Leaf motor.

3. I didnt keep to the instructions, hence problems with EMI and capacitance. If you want to build one you have to strictly keep to the design. 

4. Resolver to encoder board needed for PMSM otherwise AB encoder is ok.


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## Benjaminpalma (Oct 25, 2017)

Duncan said:


> The software is the scary part!


There's software as well?!

How can turning DC to AC and making it adjustable be so complicated?!


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## Benjaminpalma (Oct 25, 2017)

jbman said:


> The best I could probably do is 85 or 90 mph, but that's due to sag on my small battery pack, not the controller.


That's encouraging - thanks.

Is this some kind of electric or chemical sag - or physical sag? How does this affect power output?


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

When drawing a lot of current from the battery pack, the voltage can sag. The RPM of a series wound DC motor is related to the voltage you apply. I could theoretically do 99mph at 200 volts, but with the sag I would lose some top end. I'm sure there's a lot of posts where people talk about it. More batteries in parallel or a higher pack voltage will help counteract that sag. Or just pulling fewer amps.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Benjaminpalma (Oct 25, 2017)

jbman said:


> When drawing a lot of current from the battery pack, the voltage can sag. The RPM of a series wound DC motor is related to the voltage you apply. I could theoretically do 99mph at 200 volts, but with the sag I would lose some top end. I'm sure there's a lot of posts where people talk about it. More batteries in parallel or a higher pack voltage will help counteract that sag. Or just pulling fewer amps.


That makes sense - thanks very much.


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