# HPEVS Motors w/o warranty



## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

miller3408 said:


> I see on various web sites that HPEVS does not warranty their motors unless you buy their controller with it. This seems to be bad business practice and should be a warning to those who are interested in buying their motors. I would be wary in doing so.


 Are you saying that no warranty for the motor only is not right?
If so say some one buys HPEV's motor and then messes it up because they hook it up wrong to a controller that is not compatible and then wants HPEV to replace it with a new motor? Think about it.


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## miller3408 (Sep 12, 2013)

dragonsgate said:


> Are you saying that no warranty for the motor only is not right?
> If so say some one buys HPEV's motor and then messes it up because they hook it up wrong to a controller that is not compatible and then wants HPEV to replace it with a new motor? Think about it.


 What AC controller is not compatible? Where are you coming from? If you were knowable of CA law, you would now that a manufacturer cannot require the purchase of additional products in order to be qualified for a warranty. This is in violation of state law and of the business code. If you are not a attorney and not aware of CA laws, you should not be even making a statement that you can not back up with the law that would allow a manufacturer to set limitations requiring additional purchases. This is not legal. I learned this in my first year of law school. Best you check out your source if you have one,


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

miller3408 said:


> This is not legal. I learned this in my first year of law school. Best you check out your source if you have one,


Ah! A lawyer. My condolence.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm from old world (Europe) and to me this kind of thinking is what kills DIY market. Big manufacturers don't sell their products to individuals (example: SAFT) because warranty claims will kill their profit. There's big gap or rather canion between b2b trading and retail market; as a diy-er I find limited warranty fair solution. Remember: this isn't for Joe Average mass consumer


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

miller3408 said:


> I see on various web sites that HPEVS does not warranty their motors unless you buy their controller with it. This seems to be bad business practice and should be a warning to those who are interested in buying their motors. I would be wary in doing so.


 I'll keep that in mind. Been driving with one for 4 years now.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Oh lawd... am I the only one reminded of "cruisin" here?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Tesseract said:


> Oh lawd... am I the only one reminded of "cruisin" here?


Nope and I'd like to see the OP's legal sources from his first year of Law school. I see HPEVS's motor/controller as a package deal. Works fine for me.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

miller3408 said:


> What AC controller is not compatible? Where are you coming from? If you were knowable of CA law, you would now that a manufacturer cannot require the purchase of additional products in order to be qualified for a warranty. This is in violation of state law and of the business code. If you are not a attorney and not aware of CA laws, you should not be even making a statement that you can not back up with the law that would allow a manufacturer to set limitations requiring additional purchases. This is not legal. I learned this in my first year of law school. Best you check out your source if you have one,


Derp. You don't really understand motors and controllers, do you?


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

I've always seen the motors and controllers sold as a package. I'm not saying you can't buy their motors separately, I just haven't seen it on the sites I've looked at in the past.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Oh lawd... am I the only one reminded of "cruisin" here?


Ditto tess


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Oh lawd... am I the only one reminded of "cruisin" here?


 Yeah, looks just a bit like this post by cruisin on evdl:


> Buy a new HPEVS motor without the controller, and get NO warranty according to HPEVS spokesperson Bill. This is a red flag for the industry that is now going through tough times. Also, may be illegal in California. Buyers should do their homework before buying their motors and get everything in writing.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

He appears to promote seller 1eyedcruiser's auction here: 



miller3408 said:


> No warranty if you buy without the controller. Take a look at the AC-45 on EBAY. I bought one, much better than what you are looking for.


That would be item #181250509961

Shameless behavior


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## miller3408 (Sep 12, 2013)

Not true, but I guess you continue to think you are smarter than anyone else. Shame on you.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

miller3408 said:


> Not true, but I guess you continue to think you are smarter than anyone else. Shame on you.


Are you referring to this? 



major said:


> He appears to promote seller 1eyedcruiser's auction here:
> 
> 
> miller3408 said:
> ...


What is untrue about that post?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

miller3408 said:


> Not true, but I guess you continue to think you are smarter than anyone else. Shame on you.


What's untrue about you posting the exact same text on EVDL?

Herp derp.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

miller3408 said:


> No warranty if you buy without the controller. Take a look at the AC-45 on EBAY. I bought one, much better than what you are looking for.


 
So, what is your username? No one is registered with miller3408 nor [email protected], so I wonder who you are on ebay.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

In looking at the warranty from HPEVS:
http://www.hpevs.com/Site/images/pdf/hpevs-limited-warranty.pdf

I can't find anything that would disclude any motor warranty. In fact, as long as it's used correctly, and not abused or run past its limits, they'll warranty it.

I think what they've said is they offer no warranty on any of the recent AC31's that have been sold by a third party. These motors are long obsolete and past their warranty period.


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## HPEVS (Jun 6, 2012)

I feel the need to jump in here. Our motors carry at least a one year warranty from manufacturing defects. We have several OEM's that use other than the Curtis controller with our motor, this is not and never has been an issue for us. If the motor becomes damaged due to a controller that is not tuned properly and/or does not have the proper motor temperature sensor input, then the warranty would be voided. Also the customer will be responsible for tuning the controller correctly, since we can't support any controller other than the Curtis. In the case of the motors Al Bullock, (aka Cruising, aka miller3408) is selling on Ebay, these motors will not be warrantied or supported by HPEVS, mainly since these are now 5 to 6 years old. Speaking of which, Al you need to start supporting the customers that bought these motors from you, I'm tired of getting the calls. You also need to be upfront about what they are. These are old Miles Electric Vehicles motors. They were designed for low speed utility trucks and NEV's. These are obsolete for us now and have been for a few years since the new AC35 went into production. Sorry to carry on, but I had to set the record straight.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I emailed miller3408 about a motor and he responded. He gave his phone number as 925-292-8565 which is the same one that Al uses in many of his postings. 

Other Aliases he's used various places like evtradinpost, seattleeva, evdl, diyelectriccar, endless-sphere, ebay, ecomodder, visforvoltage, electricforum, buggiesgonewild and a handful of other places:
*Evnut*
*Cruisin*
*outtolunch*
*1eyedcruiser*
*EV-converter*


Emails he's used directly to my email:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] (this is his paypal account)
[email protected] (aka Norm Miller)


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Thank you Brian. I like hearing directly instead of through the grapevine.

Pete


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

As an amusing side note we have the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Among other things it covers "required" things to not void your warranty:

"Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer."

The above is taken out of context of the actual act. But it is from a letter from the president of K&N filters to their customers.

http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

I think "miller" was trying to use this as his reasoning for his statements.

It does not apply to a customer doing something to damage a motor.
(wrong controller, programming, improper wiring, whatever)

Miz


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

mizlplix said:


> Among other things it covers "required" things to not void your warranty:
> 
> "Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item,


While you may not have to use a specific oil filter - I bet your engine manufacturer CAN void the warranty if you use an ineffective filter
One that does not meet the manufacturers specifications


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