# Is it easy to charge lithium without a bms?



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes. I don't even have a lithium charger.

How long your cells charge depends on the charger, how it's configured, and anything else you have setup...and you shouldn't need to balance them periodically...unless by that you mean every 5-10 years. Balance em once and done.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

tyscof said:


> I want to buy a lithium battery pack (gbs) but I was wondering what actually charges the cells the bms or charger? If I left my cells to charge would they fry up because they didn't get a signal from the bms to stop or do they sense the packs voltage and stop when it hits a certain voltage? I want a bms but I am just not sure what one I want to buy yet or how much I would be willing to dish out for one yet, I would like to buy my cells and use a charger for awhile making sure the cells are balanced periodically to have a test pack for my ev. I just want to make sure I take proper care of my cells and not lose them.


You need to learn how to take care of Lithium cells/batteries or you can ruin them or worse----ruin other things also. If you know what you are doing, yes, it is easy to charge a Lithium cell without a BMS. When charging a battery consisting of multiple Lithium cells, additional care must be taken without a BMS, and even with a BMS, you need to know how to use it properly. Some small Lithium batteries have a combined BMS/charger, but larger types like the GBS use a separate charger and a BMS to manage it.

We have a member here called Davide (his real name) who is a great resource. He is also in the business. I suggest you check out the educational material he has to offer here: http://elithion.com/education.php#Video_tutorials 

Here is another place you should use: http://batteryuniversity.com/

Of course there are lots of threads and information on this board.


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## tyscof (Aug 20, 2013)

How do you not use a lithium charger? Don't they have specific charging algorithms? So a normal part of a lithium charger is some sort of timer or hvc built in?


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## Ampster (Oct 6, 2012)

I have used a power supply for individual cells. I set it for the target voltage and stop it when amps taper off below 1 amp. For my pack I use an Elcon now but previously used two meanwells in series with a separate high voltage cutoff.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

tyscof said:


> How do you not use a lithium charger? Don't they have specific charging algorithms? So a normal part of a lithium charger is some sort of timer or hvc built in?


Check your PM. There are ways to use dumb chargers but Elcon makes a pretty darn good one. 

Pete


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ampster said:


> a separate high voltage cutoff.


The charger has to know when to cut off, or someone else can do the job. 

I have a lead QuickCharger charging both floodies and LiFePO4. When the lithium gets to my set voltage (~90-95% SOC) a JLD404 cuts it out of the loop.


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## vincent-gbs (Aug 21, 2013)

I have a e-bike have no bms,and because of the employee benefits,I replaced the Lead-acid batteries to 20AH's lithium batteries which produce by my company 2.5years ago. I ride 34KM/day,average speed is 20-30KM/H,and charing them every 2 days.When charging,I only use the charger to control the total voltage.Up to now,I find the e-bike is still do good.
So charging lithium battery without a bms,my conclusion is:
1.depending on driving habits
2.have a good sense of charge, do not wait OD alarm,it may damage the battery
3.regularly check each battery's voltage when the battery pack is charging full


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## Ampster (Oct 6, 2012)

I thought GBS batteries were only sold with BMS. Or is it that warranty is only good if BMS is used? Are these used batteries?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Elite Power Solutions sells them with BMS, but GBS are a different company AFAIK. The GBS batteries are resold by Elite. To get a warranty from Elite, you need a BMS.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I am a big chickenshit with my gbs pack. I need to be able to see each cell voltage while the pack charges, and I need to see everything from my cell phone or tablet so that I don't need to go out to the garage.... Lithium justs costs too much to roll the dice.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

No real dice to throw, the technique is well documented for bottom balancing and not using a BMS but not biggie if you feel you need to use one. We understand. I think it is more of a dice shoot to use one vs not using one. The Hi-Power BMS sucks. Ruined a lot of good cells because of a malfunctioning BMS System and it was not on just one vehicle. I was on multiple vehicles and all had trouble. This from a battery company. I have not heard any bad issues from the BMS system that is sold with the GBS cells. 

Pete


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