# [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dennis,

Thanks for your inputs regarding noise requirements for an EV.

We have in fact two conflicting requirements:
- A very low level of noise is a wonderful quality of the EV technology, 
both for passengers and for people who live near a street or highway.
- There is a need for sound generation as an attention getter for 
pedestrians, and mostly in urban traffic.

Here are some ideas:
External sound (not noise..) generation would be desirable at very low 
to low speeds, when we are most likely to be in urban driving conditions 
and in the presence of people. I say sound and not noise since we 
generally associate noise with an unpleasant perception. Some sounds can 
even be pleasant!

High speed driving does not need sound generation since the road noise 
generated by the tires is always present above 30 - 40 miles/hour.

At low speed, it would be nice to to generate a sound that would be a 
warning for pedestrians without being annoying or nerve racking. This 
can be easily achieved with a wave generator (or recording), and with a 
classic (relatively low power) audio amplifier, associated with a 
waterproof speaker located outside the cabin. We should be able to 
control what sound we emit and the level of the sound. The sound 
generation should be triggered by the speedometer of the car, or the 
RPM of the motor depending of what is available (or feasible). I predict 
that one day this sound generation will become a mandatory safety 
feature for EV's, with levels and sound patterns having to meet safety 
specifications (to be determined).

I have already planned to implement an external sound system in my new 
EV.. (I will even be able to play Harley Davidson or Maserati engine 
noises if I want to attract attention!!)

Here is my experience with back-up alarms: during my first driving test, 
when I backed up, my wife was not looking at the car, and although I was 
looking at her and there was no danger, she became really alarmed since 
she did not hear anything! She insisted that I install a back-up beeper 
alarm. I was very lucky to find a minuscule beeper that needs NO wiring 
at all and that sticks directly to the back-up lights: it receives its 
power through a photocell directly from the light emitted by the backup 
bulb shining through the plastic lens! It provides a fairly loud alarm 
to people within a radius of 20 feet. I paid $6.00 at PEP Boys (SKU No. 
9642)!

As far as cabin noise is concerned, I just installed the vacuum pump for 
my power brake and I was shocked by the very loud rattle it produces. 
This is obnoxious: I am very disappointed to see that the best pump I 
could find (made by Thomas) is so noisy, and that the pump runs every 
time I use the brakes! If we expect to have a widespread EV acceptance, 
I estimate that this noise is unacceptable!

Is there anyone in our EV community who could recommend a more silent 
pump and who could tell me if increasing the vacuum reservoir capacity 
would avoid triggering the pump at every braking occasion? How are the 
current plug-in EV's designed (I have never heard them making rattling 
noises!). What about the other electric conversions like EV1, RAV4? 
Please help!

Thanks,

Michael Bonard
Neon 2000 EV
Washington, DC

From: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Noise is valuable for safety of pedestrians
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Noise is valuable for safety of pedestrians near EVs 
A noisy vacuum pump should be considered an asset,(as Lawrence Rhodes has 
said, and I agree.) not a detriment. So too squeaky brakes, so why not bend 
the brass strip or pad wear alarm / indicator closer to the disk so even 
new brake pads make that attention getting, ?Squeal.? Or you might consider 
adding a ?Backup Alarm? module connected to the brake light switch and a 
five second delay cutoff relay (Or 555 timer circuit?) so it doesn't ping 
incessantly at the traffic light. Additionally, the brake lights can 
connect to the front turn lamps, as many California cars do, to alert oncoming 
drivers of your slowing. (Note to California drivers, other States do not 
require this feature?) IMHO these low impact modifications may increase 
SAFETY, and none are Illegal or mandated at this time, IMHO ! As I see it, we 
want to be noticed by anyone who might be thereby deterred from entering 
our space, lessening the likelihood of collision with vehicles or pedestrians. 
The benefit to you and me would be no need to wait for 30 minutes or more 
for investigating police to make a report and less wear on our "Emergency 
Flashers!" 


Electric Vehicle Training Center Inc. 
Training you, to fix Tomorrows Electric Vehicles.


Dennis L. Miles Director 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Michael,

The electric drive diaphragm pumps with low vacuum in.hg only up to 15 
in.hg. will be the most nosier that has a grill type of air inlet on them. 
I use a belt driven 4 vane vacuum pump that is driven off the main motor 
with a 2 to 1 pulley ratio so it only goes about 50 percent of the motor 
speed.

You can get these 4 vane vacuum pumps from http://www.jegs.com/. Use either 
the Moroso 710-22641 or 22642 ones for up to 22 in.hg. These have a screw 
on hose fitting for inlet which is the vacuum side and the outlet that can 
be connected to a hose connected type of air breather that has a filter in 
it which reduces the pump vanes noise.

The vacuum side is hose connected to a Jeg's vacuum canister that has a 
check value in it which is the same type that plugs into a brake vacuum 
booster. This prevent breed back and holds the vacuum a lot longer.

The vanes in these pumps, look like a high carbon metallic silver graphite 
brushes. For long life it is recommended to install a tee in the inlet and 
install a automatic oilier. This looks just like those old clear jar gas 
filters where you can see the oil level. You adjust a needle value for the 
amount of oil you want to go in. There is a screw top cap that you can take 
off to add more oil. It is also a bleeder cap to let the air in so the oil 
will flow.

For a electric motor drive, do not use the engine type of power belts. It 
best to use a industrial cog belt that can these smaller pulleys. I have a 
multiple of pulley drives coming off my main motor. The final drive is a 
2.25 inch diameter pulley off the drive to a 5 inch pulley on the vacuum 
pump.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bonard" <[email protected]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's


> Dennis,
>
> Thanks for your inputs regarding noise requirements for an EV.
>
> We have in fact two conflicting requirements:
> - A very low level of noise is a wonderful quality of the EV technology,
> both for passengers and for people who live near a street or highway.
> - There is a need for sound generation as an attention getter for
> pedestrians, and mostly in urban traffic.
>
> Here are some ideas:
> External sound (not noise..) generation would be desirable at very low
> to low speeds, when we are most likely to be in urban driving conditions
> and in the presence of people. I say sound and not noise since we
> generally associate noise with an unpleasant perception. Some sounds can
> even be pleasant!
>
> High speed driving does not need sound generation since the road noise
> generated by the tires is always present above 30 - 40 miles/hour.
>
> At low speed, it would be nice to to generate a sound that would be a
> warning for pedestrians without being annoying or nerve racking. This
> can be easily achieved with a wave generator (or recording), and with a
> classic (relatively low power) audio amplifier, associated with a
> waterproof speaker located outside the cabin. We should be able to
> control what sound we emit and the level of the sound. The sound
> generation should be triggered by the speedometer of the car, or the
> RPM of the motor depending of what is available (or feasible). I predict
> that one day this sound generation will become a mandatory safety
> feature for EV's, with levels and sound patterns having to meet safety
> specifications (to be determined).
>
> I have already planned to implement an external sound system in my new
> EV.. (I will even be able to play Harley Davidson or Maserati engine
> noises if I want to attract attention!!)
>
> Here is my experience with back-up alarms: during my first driving test,
> when I backed up, my wife was not looking at the car, and although I was
> looking at her and there was no danger, she became really alarmed since
> she did not hear anything! She insisted that I install a back-up beeper
> alarm. I was very lucky to find a minuscule beeper that needs NO wiring
> at all and that sticks directly to the back-up lights: it receives its
> power through a photocell directly from the light emitted by the backup
> bulb shining through the plastic lens! It provides a fairly loud alarm
> to people within a radius of 20 feet. I paid $6.00 at PEP Boys (SKU No.
> 9642)!
>
> As far as cabin noise is concerned, I just installed the vacuum pump for
> my power brake and I was shocked by the very loud rattle it produces.
> This is obnoxious: I am very disappointed to see that the best pump I
> could find (made by Thomas) is so noisy, and that the pump runs every
> time I use the brakes! If we expect to have a widespread EV acceptance,
> I estimate that this noise is unacceptable!
>
> Is there anyone in our EV community who could recommend a more silent
> pump and who could tell me if increasing the vacuum reservoir capacity
> would avoid triggering the pump at every braking occasion? How are the
> current plug-in EV's designed (I have never heard them making rattling
> noises!). What about the other electric conversions like EV1, RAV4?
> Please help!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Bonard
> Neon 2000 EV
> Washington, DC
>
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Noise is valuable for safety of pedestrians
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Noise is valuable for safety of pedestrians near EVs
> A noisy vacuum pump should be considered an asset,(as Lawrence Rhodes has
> said, and I agree.) not a detriment. So too squeaky brakes, so why not 
> bend
> the brass strip or pad wear alarm / indicator closer to the disk so even
> new brake pads make that attention getting, ?Squeal.? Or you might 
> consider
> adding a ?Backup Alarm? module connected to the brake light switch and a
> five second delay cutoff relay (Or 555 timer circuit?) so it doesn't ping
> incessantly at the traffic light. Additionally, the brake lights can
> connect to the front turn lamps, as many California cars do, to alert 
> oncoming
> drivers of your slowing. (Note to California drivers, other States do 
> not
> require this feature?) IMHO these low impact modifications may increase
> SAFETY, and none are Illegal or mandated at this time, IMHO ! As I see 
> it, we
> want to be noticed by anyone who might be thereby deterred from entering
> our space, lessening the likelihood of collision with vehicles or 
> pedestrians.
> The benefit to you and me would be no need to wait for 30 minutes or 
> more
> for investigating police to make a report and less wear on our "Emergency
> Flashers!"
>
>
> Electric Vehicle Training Center Inc.
> Training you, to fix Tomorrows Electric Vehicles.
>
>
> Dennis L. Miles Director
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 17 May 2009 at 22:17, Michael Bonard wrote:
> 
> > The sound generation should be triggered by the speedometer of the
> > car, or the RPM of the motor depending of what is available (or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > Ouch.
> >
> > You know, I'm mostly Mister Mellow here, but for some reason this whole
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I agree - and a horn is the best driver-selected noisemaker available; and 
it is standard equipment on all road vehicles. Keep It Simple, and 
uncomplicated.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's




> > On 17 May 2009 at 22:17, Michael Bonard wrote:
> >
> >> The sound generation should be triggered by the speedometer of the
> >> car, or the RPM of the motor depending of what is available (or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>and a horn is the best driver-selected noisemaker available

Horns are fine, but aren't the friendliest of warning devices.
There are also trolley or Bermuda bells or "ahooga" horns, either of which
conveys warning without being obnoxious.
There are plenty of aftermarket new ones of each of these types available
now and they've been seen (or heard) on e-conversions already.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would advocate an on command horn that sounded as loud as possible:

"This is the future you idiots get out of my way." In one of those loud male
1950's sounding voices. 

They want noise ? I say if you have an EV make as much noise as you can
stand.

/gets off soap box.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

what ever happened to natural selection? or common sense?

I was taught to look before crossing the street




> Dave Hymers wrote:
> > I would advocate an on command horn that sounded as loud as possible:
> >
> > "This is the future you idiots get out of my way." In one of those loud male
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you CAN see ;-)

But think about the folks that can't, if they didn't have all that 
pesky background noise from ICE vehicles, they would be able to hear my 
Zilla cooling pump coming 




> pratt2 wrote:
> 
> > what ever happened to natural selection? or common sense?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That does raise an interesting question - what laws are on the books NOW 
to support blind people? The law needs to apply equally and 
fairly...putting laws only on EVs is not fair nor equal.

Cheers,
Peter

[email protected] wrote:
> If you CAN see ;-)
>
> But think about the folks that can't, if they didn't have all that 
> pesky background noise from ICE vehicles, they would be able to hear my 
> Zilla cooling pump coming 
>
>
>


> pratt2 wrote:
> >
> >
> >> what ever happened to natural selection? or common sense?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

exactly, the problem is not that EV's are completely silent (they're 
not), the problem is that all the other cars are too loud.




> Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> 
> > That does raise an interesting question - what laws are on the books
> > NOW to support blind people? The law needs to apply equally and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I got my son to test our ev kart last weekend

http://www.evalbum.com/2530

he made plenty of noise when he went screaming through the yard.

He was screaming because he didnt expect the understeer from the solid
rear axle

No one got near him though. There were a few guys working on a vw dune
buggy who wondered how it was moving without an engine running.

The day ended when he blew a front tire making a u-turn on pavement.

This is definitely an off road kart.

I wonder if I will get any complaints since the locals dont like the
noise of the current atv's. They want them banned from local trails
because of the noise pollution.

I built a quiet neighbor friendly fun machine, will they now say it's
too quiet?


If you've got a white cane with a red tip I'll drive around you,
otherwise put down the cell phone and look where you're going.....





> [email protected] wrote:
> > If you CAN see ;-)
> >
> > But think about the folks that can't, if they didn't have all that
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I built my wife this NEV... 

http://www.inspectionsbybob.com/images/Sidekick.jpg

It is all but silent at 30Mph...

Since it is technically a bike (still has a pedal for when she runs out of
battery) you can creep up on bikes in the bike lanes and say "Nice day isn't
it...." at 30 Mph...

On pot holes it creaks a lot...and Bike brakes are noisy... but otherwise
it sounds like a Bike freewheeling.... (clickclickclickclickclick softly...)

It is unusual enough that most people spot it and ask (yell) questions about
it...




Bob Sisson
1993 Geo Metro Convertible Project
Gaithersburg MD


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not into the "noise for safety thing but someone could added a second
horn with a more polite and lower noise level. I have in mind the old
classic knightrider swoosh noise. Or something like a supercharger or
digitized gear noise. 


Stub


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Myles Twete
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:36 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's

>and a horn is the best driver-selected noisemaker available

Horns are fine, but aren't the friendliest of warning devices.
There are also trolley or Bermuda bells or "ahooga" horns, either of which
conveys warning without being obnoxious.
There are plenty of aftermarket new ones of each of these types available
now and they've been seen (or heard) on e-conversions already.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> chris stephens <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm not into the "noise for safety thing but someone could added a second
> > horn with a more polite and lower noise level. I have in mind the old
> > classic knightrider swoosh noise. Or something like a supercharger or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think it would be funny if the car emitted the same sound that the 
Jetson's car did. It would get people's attention.



> Michael Bonard wrote:
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Thanks for your inputs regarding noise requirements for an EV.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pratt2" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's


>
> I got my son to test our ev kart last weekend
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/2530
>
> he made plenty of noise when he went screaming through the yard.
>
> He was screaming because he didnt expect the understeer from the solid
> rear axle
>
> No one got near him though. There were a few guys working on a vw dune
> buggy who wondered how it was moving without an engine running.
>
> The day ended when he blew a front tire making a u-turn on pavement.
>
> This is definitely an off road kart.
>
> I wonder if I will get any complaints since the locals dont like the
> noise of the current atv's. They want them banned from local trails
> because of the noise pollution.
> And the'll bitch about EV's too as they will tear up trails and private 
> property, as do the gas ones Like Hummers they NEVER shoulda been built!
> I built a quiet neighbor friendly fun machine, will they now say it's
> too quiet?
>
>
> If you've got a white cane with a red tip I'll drive around you,
> otherwise put down the cell phone and look where you're going.....
>
Great minds think alike! go to hornblasters. com, enjoy the sounds I did 
with my Amtrak career! I got to TRY one of their installations at BBB in 
Fla! The're STILL ,looking for that train on the FAU campus! I gave them a 
full "Crossing" 2 longs a short an' a long, LOUD and clear! It woulda woken 
the DEAD! Has I a car, a Sound Off car, like J. Wayland enjoys with an F-40 
tape, NOT a Farrari F-40 but and EMD F-40, the REAL thing; Diseasel lokie! 
Now THAT's decibels! But not enough! Amtrak does it's share enforcing 
Darwin's law, as well as Union Pathetic, BNSF, an' Portland's great MAX 
system. Folks get clipped by those nice, silent ,electric trains! out on the 
Left Coast! Been there, a busman's holiday , riding, in the head end 
watching the stupid shit sheeple pull!. Electric trains and cars? 
Witchcraft? Move silently, to the point that, in defense, sheeple will have 
to LOOK for them, or the Blind's guide dog can? Yeah! What ever happened to 
the blind's guide dogs or handlers, anyhow?OK, I'll cut THEM some slack, but 
the REST of the dummies? Fair game for a tap on the horn! And YOU? Hell! 
YOU'RE driving,Get OFF the Godanm fone and pay attention, be CAREFUL!! I can 
STEER my EV, unlike my train!

I mean, we HAVE to protect against stupidy? I guess, we ALLOW them to 
exist, make it easier, for "them?" A zillion lawyers make their living, to 
EVeryone ELSES' cost?The other day ANOTHER Yale kid got run over. Walking 
AGAINST the lite ,out from behind a parked truck! The pilot of the car NEVER 
had a chance, knocked her dead! I've flattened pedestrians in NYC with my 
BIKE, A Trek 10 speed! Walking against the lite, What part of "Don't Walk" 
don't you get? or popping out in the bike lane, without looking!The ULTIMATE 
death machine,deadly, silent, nobody'd hear the wimpy ding-a-ling bell had I 
had one! Funny , that those you get LOOK DUMB, too!

OK lets talk about the important shit; Charge stations, better batteries, 
so we can stealth better, etc?Wasted enough electrons on this AGAIN?After 
all, nobodies bitchin' about the present crop of luxury ICE cars that are 
silent as electrics? Nobodies wanting a noisemaker on a Lincoln, or Lexis, 
even in Texas!So; It's politics to defile EV's!
>
>


> [email protected] wrote:
> >> If you CAN see ;-)
> >>
> >> But think about the folks that can't, if they didn't have all that
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Johnston" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's


>


> chris stephens <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> I'm not into the "noise for safety thing but someone could added a second
> >> horn with a more polite and lower noise level. I have in mind the old
> >> classic knightrider swoosh noise. Or something like a supercharger or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

<Does anyone know if the electric trolley buses in service , have an alarm or
a noise generator as it moves? It has been some years since being around
them and I do not recall any noise from the buses.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Sounds-Effects-for-EV%27s-tp23590058p23625017.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

We have one trolley that has one of these on it:

http://www.stanleylondon.com/bellbrassship.htm

Ring it every time you come to a intersection or stop to pick up someone.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ruspert" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sounds Effects for EV's


>
> <Does anyone know if the electric trolley buses in service , have an alarm 
> or
> a noise generator as it moves? It has been some years since being around
> them and I do not recall any noise from the buses.
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Sounds-Effects-for-EV%27s-tp23590058p23625017.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm in full agreement with David on this topic.
> >
> > There are a number of completely silent ICE luxury cars on the market
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

OMG. Lets think outside the car.

Since pedestrians are only suppose to cross at crosswalks, and there
is already hardware there for vision impaired pedestrians, Just add
another sensor. Maybe a slow steady beep for clear and increaseing beep
as cars approach and decrease after on a different pitch.


Blind j-walkers are darwin award winners.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The point has already been made that many ICE's are quiet. But,
notably, they make a bit of noise as they accelerate. If your EV was
that quiet, could you be OK with that?

Robert

And what's your point Robert?
This noise issue is really stupid, most new Ice's make almost no noise, no more than an EV. If stupid people choose to ignore 3-4 thousand pound vehicles they are taking a big risk. Same for the people driving these vehicles, pay attention. I really don't see the point in this discussion, ICE or EV weighing 3klbs will kill you if you don't pay attention, simple Darwin theories here. 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My point, Rod, is that the anti-noisemaker people are every bit as
unreasonable as they accuse the pro-noisemaker people of being. I
mean, the arguments aren't even internally consistent. (modern cars
are silent but we don't want our cars to be that loud). They don't
reflect facts. (like those cars DO make noise when they accelerate!)
The arguments are deeply disrespecful, and offensively cavalier,
toward the most basic rights of others. And lest there be any
ambiguity on that point, several of you specifically invoked the term
"darwin" to refer to people who get in the way of your silent cars.

I mean, look at Jeff here.



> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> > OMG. Lets think outside the car.
> >
> > Since pedestrians are only suppose to cross at crosswalks, and there
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There have been a number of points made in this thread. Given that many 
new ICE's are very quiet. The most important point may be that as the driver 
of a quiet vehicle one must watch more carefully for others who are 
involved in other issues and not paying enough attention to behave safely. I feel 
a bell on the hubcap to ding, ding, ding when moving slowly forward or 
reverse as was popular in the 60's is unnecessary. So is any continuous noise 
generator with a varying pitch to speed linkage. But I used to bicycle a lot 
and safety minded ICE drivers who would wait until they were three feet 
behind me and blow the horn a three second blast, were likely to drive me off 
the pavement into the ruts and berm and cause thereby me to spill. I hated 
that! 
For five years I drove a Handicapped wheelchair transporting 
taxi. It had a backup beeper. I had an extra switch attached so if I pushed the 
red button strapped to the steering column, the backup beeper beeped just 
like it did when I put the van into reverse. I used it in Hospital 
pick-up-drop-off areas. people there were very concerned about their problems and 
did not watch traffic, but, they would look around when they heard the 
beeper and get out of my way. Perhaps a little more polite than something 
louder. I agree that we don't need more NOISE! Of course I am a careful driver, 
and I hope each of you is also. In 50 years of driving and over 500,000 
Miles, I have never been charged as at fault in an accident. I am also 
thankful that BOOM CARS are illegal in Florida. Ten watts is enough power for the 
vehicle music system. I do not want to hear your music in my car. Please 
lets discuss that in some other forum!


In a message dated 5/20/2009 11:46:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email protected] writes:


The point has already been made that many ICE's are quiet. But,
notably, they make a bit of noise as they accelerate. If your EV was
that quiet, could you be OK with that?

Robert

And what's your point Robert?
This noise issue is really stupid, most new Ice's make almost no noise, no 
more than an EV. If stupid people choose to ignore 3-4 thousand pound 
vehicles they are taking a big risk. Same for the people driving these 
vehicles, pay attention. I really don't see the point in this discussion, ICE or 
EV weighing 3klbs will kill you if you don't pay attention, simple Darwin 
theories here. 




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the U.S. 
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