# Charging batteries on the fly for better range



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

both excellent ideas. 

1) I agree that more people should look to hybrid technology first until the battery technology is affordable enough to hold 300miles to the charge...

It seems people have jumped completely to the otherside of the ship without thinking about the middle-ground...option...which would be a DIY Hybrid, essentially....I think the added complexity may also be a contributer to its lack of popularity on the boards....

2) flexible solar panels do indeed exist and integrating them into the popularly used vinyl car sticker tape would be a great idea...It could be a product to be added to ANY ev, whether homemade or not, to extend the range, however minor, its still an investment that will pay itself off eventually....


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## ragee (May 25, 2008)

If you were to add a gas powered generator to your ev for extended mileage how would it be hooked up? Directly into the charger? 

The reason I ask is that my ev is a ford pu and once in awhile I wouldnt mind going an extra few miles and just put my 5.5 kw honda gen in back but I wouldnt want to add a whole bunch of other hardware to make it work. I have a 240v charger on board so could I just plug it in and start generator and take off?


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## Astronomer (Aug 7, 2008)

1. I agree that hybrids of all types (not just series hybrids) are worth looking into and have enormous potential in meeting the needs of a great many people. But, speaking for myself, I don't think I want to tackle a DIY hybrid project, or even a project involving an ICE. It's complex, more expensive than just buying the equivalent weight/volume in batteries, and, to be honest, I'm just tired of buying gas and changing oil. 

2. A car's hood, canopy, and trunk may be able to hold about 60 watts' worth of thin-film solar cells, which would provide about 360 watt-hours if it receives 6 hours of sunlight a day. Depending on the vehicle and driving conditions, this woul be an extra 1 to 3 miles. (Ymmv ) Most wouldn't consider this worth the cost. But it's still a net gain, which is only recently possible with solar. Thin-film solar is light, won't interfere with aerodynamics like silicon solar cells, and won't add appreciable weight (again, like silicon solar cells). In other words, using thin-film solar collection the way you describe won't hurt (which, again, is only a recent achievement), and it will help a little. Why not?


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## copilot (Aug 29, 2008)

Yea, I can see where 1 more battery might give you the extra mileage of what an entire car full of solar panels might provide. Sure wish they had started working on all this tech the last time we realized gas sucked in the 70's!

As for the hybrid concept, I kinda see this as a reverse hybrid. At no time is the gas motor running the car and I don't even see it as a large motor. It only exists to help recharge the batteries after they get low to extend mileage. I believe on the Volt, the motor tries to maintain a 30% level on the batteries but wont charge them back to full. I would think this would use very little gas.

I can see how a lot of EVer's would see this as defeating the spirit of going EV....I am just thinking as a quick fix until batteries get better and lighter.

I guess we need a wiz to figure out if something like Ragee's generator would be worth using or if you need something different. The bad thing about this kind of motor is I imagine it would create a greater percentage of pollution per gallon than a regular ICE in a car.


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

Of course there are about 83 other threads on the subject going on. I think the solar issue has been adequately covered here.

As for the hybrid, the continual problem that I see and that has not been addressed is the fact that when you hybridtize (is that a word) a vehicle, it becomes a fuel dependent vehicle again, though one with possibly higher efficiency.

Let me try a different approach this time. In general automobiles get used in about 3 general ranges:

1) Short range with a total usage of less than 50 miles.
2) Medium range which probably is the 50-150 mile ballpark.
3) Long range, 150 miles or more.

Now a gas vehicle fits all three ranges with little problem. In addition a gas vehicle doesn't require too much planning to function in any of those ranges. However pure EVs have no hope of long range travel right now and medium range travel is extremely difficult.

Now the question is how can we integrate EVs into these range scales. Two of them are actually pretty easy.

1) Short range: doable with current battery technology.
2) Long range: Cannot be done with a pure EV.

It's the midrange that's the real issue. I think that it breaks down into two categories:

1) A midrange daily drive.
2) The occasional and often unexpected midrange day.

Well the first devolves into the long range issue for the most part. The only difference is that the long range drive often is one that only happens occasionally whereas the daily midrange is a daily occurance. I think it's the second situation is the one that scares most drivers. You run out of gas it's an inconvenience. You run out of power in an EV and it's a serious problem.

So now we really have a decision matrix to help out is deciding what to do:

1) Short range: Pure EV.
2) Long Range (occasional): detachable hybrid.
3) Daily midrange/longrange: integrated hybrid.
4) Sporadic/emergency midrange: I'll tackle in a minute...

I find that once folks start thinking about hybrids due to needing any type of midrange/longrange drive, they zero in on the integrated hybrid. But as you can see it only fits one of the non pure EV models. The problem is that adding an integrated motor/genset to an EV is going to displace so many batteries and so much weight that it pretty much guarantees that the gas part of the hybrid is going to need to be used the vast majority of the time. But if the vast majority of your usage is short range, then it seems to me that you're shortchanging yourself.

Now for long range you need a hybrid. If it's going to truly be occasional, then either a second vehicle (owned or rented) or a pusher trailer like this one:

http://www.jstraubel.com/EVpusher/EVpusher2.htm

seems to be the right idea. That way you get a pure EV for short range and you can attach the trailer for the occasional long range trip.

Now onto the daily midrange. This is where the integrated hybrid can help as it'll be used every day. You can maximize efficiency by doing a serial hybrid (engine->genset->charger->batteries->motor) becase then you can tune the gas engine for maximum efficiency while the electric motor moves the vehicle. Make it a plug in with regen and you'll be able to use the electric only option at least a part of the time. But it's clearly the most complicated setup.

Now the emergency. This is the area that keeps folks from committing to pure EVs. The best solution seems to be having an emergency lightweight battery pack. Zinc-air and aluminum-air batteries are lightweight, compact, not too expensive, and very powerful. Their problem is that they are one time use only. So if you pull the emergency tab on them, you'll have to replace them before the next time. The other point is that truthfully there are power plugs pretty much everywhere, so opportunity charging is possible, it's just slow.

One other option that has escaped mention is the possibility of towing additional batteries.

In the end figure out your usage, then the right design to match.

ga2500ev


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:
" Zinc-air and aluminum-air batteries are lightweight, compact, not too expensive, and very powerful. Their problem is that they are one time use only."

Would like to know just where this information is located. I have researched Z-air and al-air, with no good sources found, except for the Chinese. And they are very expensive.

They are renewable also...


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