# GM Quality Now Superior to Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

......but still behind Ford, Toyota and Honda.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm still mad about the bailout, so that alone puts ford a head IMO. They thought about cashing in, and chose to get their chit together instead.

Doesn't seem fair that GM gets a second chance like this but I guess they really were too big to fail in the eyes of some.


----------



## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

News Bot said:


> Consumer Reports survey based on response from 960,000 subscribers, providing data on 1.3 million vehicles.
> 
> More...



LOOOOOOOOOL...i cant stop laughing...

GM will never be superior to Audi, BMW and Mercedes...

we have a saying here...it goes like that: dont belive in any statistics that you have not faked before by yourselfe...


----------



## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

I don't think that it is GM that has improved, but moreso that Audi, BMW, Mercedes have seen their quality deteriorate. Electrical issues are becoming very common among those cars, and they are *very* expensive to fix. Mercedes does not build "Bush Taxi Tough" cars anymore like they used to; their 190D, 240D, 300D, 300SD, and 300SDL models very commonly exceed 500,000 miles on the original engine without a rebuild.

I've abused my 300 SDL for nearly 2 years straight; I bought it for $1200 in rough shape with more than 200,000 miles on the odometer, it's probably spent more than 3,000 miles under my 2 year ownership at speeds in excess of 100 mph, I do burnouts with it regularly, this car has been abused offroad, and nothing major has broken yet or shows any signs of it(exception: wheel bearings and UV joints will need to be changed soon; they've never been changed in the entire life of the car and a few weeks ago started showing signs of wear and tear). This tired old German car of mine can take more abuse than almost any _brand new_ American car.

Mercedes does NOT build them like that anymore, and probably never will again.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I'll NEVER buy another one. I've spend the kids college fund trying to keep those POS cars and trucks on the road. The only reason I bought my S10 is because I couldn't find ANYTHING else to buy and thought with it being electric I'd be ok with no alternators, starters and manifold leaks to deal with. It's actually a pretty good truck but gas powered? I'll NEVER EVER EVER by a GM product!


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

The Toecutter said:


> I don't think that it is GM that has improved, but moreso that Audi, BMW, Mercedes have seen their quality deteriorate. Electrical issues are becoming very common among those cars, and they are *very* expensive to fix. Mercedes does not build "Bush Taxi Tough" cars anymore like they used to; their 190D, 240D, 300D, 300SD, and 300SDL models very commonly exceed 500,000 miles on the original engine without a rebuild.
> 
> I've abused my 300 SDL for nearly 2 years straight; I bought it for $1200 in rough shape with more than 200,000 miles on the odometer, it's probably spent more than 3,000 miles under my 2 year ownership at speeds in excess of 100 mph, I do burnouts with it regularly, this car has been abused offroad, and nothing major has broken yet or shows any signs of it(exception: wheel bearings and UV joints will need to be changed soon; they've never been changed in the entire life of the car and a few weeks ago started showing signs of wear and tear). This tired old German car of mine can take more abuse than almost any _brand new_ American car.
> 
> Mercedes does NOT build them like that anymore, and probably never will again.


what great old tanks , love them . I want a 124 wagon (1987 E class) 4 Matic (4x4) EV and love the old 123 300TD


----------



## Guest (Oct 31, 2010)

> .....commonly exceed 500,000 miles on the original.........


Well you said it. At these miles or more it is not really a consumable item. So they had to jump on the band wagon and make it more consumable. Make em too good and you don't make money on ancillary items. Make em to break em and you do. Remember we live in a consumable world. Too bad they followed every one else. Should have been the other way around but noooooooooooo. 

VW/Audi line has always had electrical issues.


----------



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Having had a few GM products and got tired of fixing the damned things, yes they were new, I have since stuck with Ford and Toyota. I have never had one of these two brands leave me stranded, and I think Ford with them importing the new Fiesta and soon the EV Focus in 2012 even that quality should improve.


----------



## RupertWild (Nov 20, 2009)

Growing up in England and Europe and seeing the abuse the Mercedes took as taxi's was impressive. But as has been pointed out here, the quality has gone down the toilet now. My 2006 VW Jetta TDI has done me right with 55,000 on the clock and no issues, knock on wood. But it seems it was the luck of the draw. Others have had issues with clutches and all sorts. The German rigs aren't what they used to be and ARE bloody expensive to fix.

I suppose that's why most of us are here. Putting new life into a chassis and body and part of the driveline to breathe it new life.

Now that I'm working closely with a shop I'm seeing that Toyota really is the best quality and lasting rig out there. And not ridiculous to fix cost wise.

As you're building these rigs chaps, build them to last. If we do it right, maybe the big twats will follow. At some point people are going to have to start putting their foot down and saying no to buying disposable vehicles. Until then we'll have to lead by example.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

2 cars that I would have liked to have owned:

1989ish BMW 735

1980ish mercedes 300TD

Maybe some day......

I do agree that quality seems to have dropped in german made cars recently (mercedes in particular).
I'm sure they look great and drive even better, but total life expectancy is what I use to measure a car's total worth.

One thing that surprised me about the older volkswagen passat is their 11 year corrosion resistance warranty and laser welded roofline. Seems not many are doing this even to this day.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I have to agree about mercedes not building like they used to.. When I sold my three other cars and wanted to buy a mercedes, I looked at newer ones and was scared away by quality concerns... so this is what I got. And, yes, it is incredibly well built. I am amazed every day at the build quality.

1978 Mercedes-Benz 280CE - w123 platform - inline gas 6cyl - 82,000 miles 

Yes, that's real burlwood trim - pristine condition after 32 years.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3842187/1978-mercedes-benz-280ce-indianapolis-in-us


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

fyi.. I heartily considered finding a w123 with a manual (or just swapping it in) to do my next conversion with lithium... they are a bit on the heavy side, but not more so than the pickup conversions... but I'm still on the fence about what kind of car to do and how many shekles to spend. Oh, mercedes actually produces a w123 electric vehicle way back when as a prototype... but they thought it was too heavy and wouldn't go far enough (it was a nickel iron battery)

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1518913-w123-electric-test-vehicle.html


----------

