# New high current/voltage drive available Q1 2015



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

That sounds very interesting. I hope you do come out with it Q1 2015 and that it's a success. Having said that, allow me a moment to go over issues that the community is probably thinking but maybe you won't hear quite as directly. I'm trying to be helpful because I'd like to see things like this succeed.

1. I've read many of your prior posts and quite often they appear to be very flashy with little substance. Your post here is not really much of an exception. You say that this controller will be available in about 3 months but I've yet to see pictures or video of it running. Perhaps I've missed these things. Concrete evidence that something exists really helps to make things seem credible. This would be a really big, powerful controller 

2. The power levels we're talking here are way beyond what 95% of people are going to want / be able to afford. EVs are already a niche and when you take away 19/20ths of the niche you're left with a *very* small niche. This is problematic from a sales perspective.

3. Related to #2 above, the voltage is way above what most motors will tolerate. The power levels really only get superb if you can drive 700v into the motor but most people aren't going to have such a motor (or be able to afford it). At the more usual 360v your controller would still be something like 150kw continuous and so quite powerful.

The bottom line is that I'm left wondering if you aren't shooting for the moon a bit here. That controller is way WAY overpowered for most people and too expensive. I think you'd sell 10-20x as many (at least) if you built a 150kw peak, 100kw continuous (or somewhere there about) controller that handles 400v and charged about $4000-$5000.

That having been said, everything you're doing sound super cool but I wish you'd post some pictures and video of all of it - the controller, the motor, the ECU, the dash, etc. We'd all love to see this stuff I'm sure. Even prototype stuff is cool.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

Thank you for your comments.
We are a niche market and most DIYers will not be able to afford the high power unit.
We are not planning to compete with the lower cost DC controllers, and Warp motors they are not our market and this will satisfy the lower cost DIY builds.

Our business plan calls for 50 units sold a year so you are not far off .

I post here strictly to keep people abreast of what we are doing but to stay current you must visit the KigerStang FB page and our new FB page, Electric Muscle that will soon have posted pictures of the above mentioned drive, motor and Eaton Controller with HMIs.

Most people that will purchase this product will typically find us at trade shows and in national magazine ads, These will commence Nov 2016.

We are very proud to be a part of the EV revolution.
Gods Speed to EVs.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

CKidder said:


> I've read many of your prior posts and quite often they appear to be very flashy with little substance. Your post here is not really much of an exception. You say that this controller will be available in about 3 months but I've yet to see pictures or video of it running. Perhaps I've missed these things. Concrete evidence that something exists really helps to make things seem credible. This would be a really big, powerful controller


Feel free to browse over to our projects FB site.
Thought you would be interested in today's post.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

I saw that! The controller looks really sharp. If that's a pre-production controller then it looks pretty darn good for a prototype. It seems like you're on a good track here. I look forward to seeing more information about this as time goes on. It's a bit high end for most people but that's OK if your target is a bit higher end. There are a variety of people who wouldn't mind spending $20,000 or so for a motor and controller. It sounds like the power levels are pretty close to what a Tesla Model S has.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

Our motor/drive combo is higher power than Teslas. I know the people that made the winding stand for Teslas motors. I know a lot about their motors and our single motor/drive puts out the same power as their new dual motor setup.

We will be putting the vehicle on the dyno later this year. The published power curves from our manufacturer are blown away when coupled to our drive.

Lastly, anyone that claims you will demagnetize a PM motor by pumping too much current into it doesn't really understand PM induction motors. The motor needs to heat up for this to occur. If your controller is smart enough to realize and predict the duty cycle, the motor never heats up enough to demagnetize the motor. Our motors are rated for 600 amps at 700V . We can pump 900 amps into this motor with a controlled duty cycle and increase torque by 45% over the published curves.

But I will save this discussion for our Dyno video, where facts hit the road.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

sounds like a good fit for the Remi motors (with better cooling and a possible insulation 
upgrade). 
Sounds like a Bugatti killer.


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

RMS will launch their new 250kW controller in february/march with close to 1st post specs. I think they will be head to head products in both terms - performance and cost.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

philt said:


> ...Lastly, anyone that claims you will demagnetize a PM motor by pumping too much current into it doesn't really understand PM induction motors. The motor needs to heat up for this to occur. ...


Well, I confess I don't really understand what a PM induction motor is, and I rather suspect I am not alone in this; care to enlighten us unwashed masses?

That said, anyone that claims you can't demagnetize the PMs in a PM-field motor with current alone doesn't really understand coercivity.


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## GrowleyMonster (Apr 7, 2014)

I realize of course that there are other very good reasons to go electric than to save money, and I realize that not many electric vehicles actually do save money in the first place, but still I am amazed that anyone would pay 15k just for a controller, even with such impressive specs. It sounds absurdly cost-ineffective. More so when you figure batteries and battery management, motor, and transmission system. A regular car transmission might have a problem dealing with the max torque from such a motor at those power levels.

Nevertheless, I would like to see it matched to a motor and vehicle, and put through its paces. Need a test driver?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Ai! said:


> RMS will launch their new 250kW controller in february/march with close to 1st post specs. I think they will be head to head products in both terms - performance and cost.


...with the 350 not far behind.


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## muffildy (Oct 11, 2011)

controller so powerful i wonder if its meant for a semi conversion heh.
I would really love for a company like yours to produce a controller in the low voltage/high amp range meant for bldc motors. Theres a kind of a glut on the market for induction motor controllers of various power levels, but not a whole lot of options for bldc/pmac motors. A 50kw continuous 100kw peak 100v bldc would be nice; not sure if theres too many motors designed in that range that are bldc either.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

As I mentioned, I will let the Dyno speak for itself regarding putting large amps for short periods into our motor.

Personally, I like the challenge of pushing the envelope. I don't do this for any commercial reason. I do it for the passion of it. 

I believe and history has proven, many innovations in any industry come from small companies that enjoy what they do, putting commerce third to passion and challenge.

Most large companies started from this stage. Once the initial inventor/creator of the technology steps aside, then the second generation owners/stock holders move the company from that of invention to that of profit making.

Not a bad thing, but it's really how companies evolve. New companies spawn off of larger, slow moving sometimes hum drum mass producers by creative people that get bored, have a better idea and run with it.

So in conclusion, for me, it's the hunt, the exploration the exhilaration of going beyond that excites me. Making another Leaf or Prius just doesn't.

If we can build enough product to feed the passion, I'm happy with that.

Stay tuned to the FB and web site in the next few months. There will be some very exciting additions to product offerings and the car will be going in final paint in January. Should be fun.

Thanks,
Phil


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

muffildy said:


> controller so powerful i wonder if its meant for a semi conversion heh.
> I would really love for a company like yours to produce a controller in the low voltage/high amp range meant for bldc motors. Theres a kind of a glut on the market for induction motor controllers of various power levels, but not a whole lot of options for bldc/pmac motors. A 50kw continuous 100kw peak 100v bldc would be nice; not sure if theres too many motors designed in that range that are bldc either.


I dont see the need to duplicate efforts when companies like RMS already have great offerings in the 150KW range.

We hope our drive release will accelerate their 250KW offering but it was still a bit shy for what we need. The 250KW will be perfect for Remys HVH250-90 but not our modified HVH250-115.

The curves are here although we far exceed Remys published curves when using our drive.
http://1drv.ms/1wvvfmu


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

Rimac already have 90 and 115 Remy PM motors working with very high power controllers, but they are pretty pricey..


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

philt said:


> We hope our drive release will accelerate their 250KW offering but it was still a bit shy for what we need.


Their release schedule for the 250 is already set. It will probably about the same time as yours. It will be fun to see a nice good old fashioned head to head between high quality products.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

Ai! said:


> Rimac already have 90 and 115 Remy PM motors working with very high power controllers, but they are pretty pricey..


Rimac is my absolute favorite EV. Their CEO started in his garage and I simply admire this man. What most people do not know is Rimac was funded by a grant from the Croatia Government. 

$980K is a bit much, I can build a flying car for $980.000.00.


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## muffildy (Oct 11, 2011)

rms is 160v min, 100v was what i was looking for.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

Reinhart makes a great controller with lower voltages.

BTW, we are not installers but we will be soliciting for installers to network consumers to for installing our products.
For those that do not feel inclined to do it themselves.

This network will start growing after SEMA 2016. Presently we would like to start off in Central FL and grow out from there.

Thank you everyone that has emailed us inquiring if we will install kits in their cars. We are an engineering company and I do mechanical and paint for fun as a hobby. KigerStangEV is just a promotion vehicle to show off the products.

Phil


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

philt said:


> TAW will soon be releasing a specially designed high current, high voltage traction drive with special IP 67 case to lighten the enclosure which is typically cast aluminum. Unit will produce 450 amps continuous, 900 amps peak  at 800VDC max input to be used with 3 phase PM induction motors. Production will be available Q1 2015.
> 
> Water cooled unit weighing in at less than 50 lbs to power those high powered motors.
> 
> Pricing is expected to be $15,000.00 in 1 lot quantities. Volume discounts to OEMs will be available.


Do you have an estimated weight for motor + controller + cooling? Might make for an interesting aircraft conversion.


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

I am picking up the Tremec TR3650 transmission to Remy HVV250-115ROC3 motor plate tonight. Once its all mounted up, I'll have exact weight.

Pictures along with weight will be on the projects FB site by weeks end.

The drive without cables, etc. will weigh in @ 50-60 lbs. we have some further mods to do before I can give exact weight on the drive.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

philt said:


> The drive without cables, etc. will weigh in @ 50-60 lbs. we have some further mods to do before I can give exact weight on the drive.


How about physical dimensions?


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## philt (Sep 7, 2014)

22"L x 18"W X 4.5" tall.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

philt said:


> As I mentioned, I will let the Dyno speak for itself regarding putting large amps for short periods into our motor.


Any chance we'll be seeing some of this Dyno data soon?


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

It seems that RMS 250 will outperform this controller in terms of price/perfofmance at least on paper. By now..


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