# Ontario - Canada, my electric truck conversion



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hi Joel.

So that's where you were.

Glad you are making progress. I will be watching.

Take care,

DP


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

nice job so far keep us all posted


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## AlexZ (Aug 26, 2008)

Very nice, checked out your site.
Im from Brampton, Ontario. Started working on 95 geo metro a few weeks back, im a few hours into it, and engine is about an hour away from comming out. Im still trying to find a good deal on a motor, used or forklift, but if i cant, I will probably buy from the same source, but an 8". As far as the controller, I will be making my own, Adapter plate as well, I dont have much experince in doing either of those things, but im up for a good challange 

I wonder how much we can get these things insured for in Ontario..


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Congrats on a quick start. Keep the info coming; we love watching others conversions in progress!


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

AlexZ said:


> Very nice, checked out your site.
> Im from Brampton, Ontario. Started working on 95 geo metro a few weeks back, im a few hours into it, and engine is about an hour away from comming out. Im still trying to find a good deal on a motor, used or forklift, but if i cant, I will probably buy from the same source, but an 8". As far as the controller, I will be making my own, Adapter plate as well, I dont have much experince in doing either of those things, but im up for a good challange
> 
> I wonder how much we can get these things insured for in Ontario..


yeah, insurance is going to be an issue, but with EVs increasing in popularity, it won't be impossible. 
you are making your own controller? very impressive, i thought about attempting this (i have the skill) but i figured it would take too much time (it is a project in itself) and it wouldn't be reliable enough.

I just got off the phone with a metal supplier to get my adapter plate materials. I'm also building own adapter plate, and I've devised a way to make it accurately!

I'll be using the spacer plate/ aluminum gasket, but this method should even work without it (it may just be a little more difficult)

i've looked up block plates to try and find a diagram of the one i have, no luck, but i did find a large variety of photos of other transmission plate, and they all have one thing in common, the bolt pattern follows perfect circle that encompasses the drive shaft.

so using the center points of the holes from either the plate, engine, or transmission (plate is best because it can easily be moved around)
you can find the center.

draw a line between any 2 holes (as long as they are on the same circumfrence) and find the mid-point. then use a square and draw another line at 90 degrees through that mid point.
repeast for a different pair of holes
the 2 lines will intersect at the center point of the circle.
i've attached a diagram to outline this.

i've posted this because the adapter plate seems to cause some people trouble (people who don't have fancy tools such as machinist mills)
its really quite easy to do accuratly (and easier to explain than my coupler which i still have to do a write-up for on my website)


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## clone477 (Sep 21, 2008)

Joel, Congrats on the progress so far. I didnt know there were so many people close to home, Im in Stoney Creek, very close to you. Let me know if you need any Trojan batteries if your going that route, there at my cost, and would love to see the project also. I have a battery thread under the ontario section. I'm going to be starting this winter, I should be getting the donor in the next couple months. We should keep in touch. Fern


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Joel said:


> Still need chargers and more batteries. (mixed)
> I'm going to use/build the same battery monitoring system that forkenswift is using (led bar graphs for each battery)
> i'm planning on charging the batts individually.
> -Joel
> http://joelclemens.colinr.ca/



mixed batteries are a bad idea.... they won't last long. At this stage of the game, you may want to re-think and invest in a matched set of 8v or 6v as well as a single charger (like a zivan-1 or zivan-3) capable of handling the entire pack....


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> mixed batteries are a bad idea.... they won't last long. At this stage of the game, you may want to re-think and invest in a matched set of 8v or 6v as well as a single charger (like a zivan-1 or zivan-3) capable of handling the entire pack....


Hi Joel.

I agree and disagree with dtbaker. Mixed batteries are a bad idea. Daren has a beer budget. Did you ask him for his opinion? Given a choice I think you should go with one type. Your call of course.

I think charging each battery individually is the best way to give the TLC they each need. I would say get a unique type of charger for all of them. So things stay equal.

At this point I am thinking of starting with individal chargers for home use. And a larger on-board one for oportunity charging, when money allows.

All the best,

DP


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Joel said:


> yeah, insurance is going to be an issue, but with EVs increasing in popularity, it won't be impossible.
> you are making your own controller? very impressive, i thought about attempting this (i have the skill) but i figured it would take too much time (it is a project in itself) and it wouldn't be reliable enough.
> 
> I just got off the phone with a metal supplier to get my adapter plate materials. I'm also building own adapter plate, and I've devised a way to make it accurately!
> ...


that looks great, but it only works if the bolt holes are in a perfect circle around the shaft correct?


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

yeah, i'm pretty sure that most will have at least 3 bolt holes that are the same distance from the drive shaft (forming an arc). they are built that way for the pressure plate and fly-wheel.


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

OK! so my theory has been proven (about the arc of the circular shape of the transmission pointing to the centre of the drive shaft.
I'm almost done my adapter plate (steel), but the wood test was successful
check out all the info here
(includes rants on how much imperial sucks)

http://joelclemens.colinr.ca/Electric_Ranger/adapter.html

i wonder if i should write about the weight comparison to aluminum.
last week, i did a quick calculation based on densities of the 2 metals, and because i'm using only half of the volume of steel (1/2" steel plate with spacers instead of 1" aluminum without spacers) and the steel was only a few pounds heavier instead of ... well, more than a few.

i dont have an accurate cost comparison, only that the steel cost only $30, and the aluminum would have cost over $100 (didnt get a quote on this)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Joel said:


> OK! so my theory has been proven (about the arc of the circular shape of the transmission pointing to the centre of the drive shaft.
> I'm almost done my adapter plate (steel), but the wood test was successful
> check out all the info here
> (includes rants on how much imperial sucks)
> ...


ha! that's funnyas my car is a Mazda platform and everything is in metric.. Did you know it's near impossible to buy metric drill bits in the states??

My aluminum plate btw, cost $89.99 shipped... 

However, I still can't find those magic equidistant bolt holes! But I did find a 24" caliper at Harbor Frieght for $8


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Joel... and especially other guys in Ontario.....

Gary here, from Kitchener. Looks like you are well on your way. I think we should stay connected as I will be doing a very similar conversion as you. I haven't bought my donor although I am close to a purchase. I plan on doing a Ford Ranger/Mazda ext cab or S10 ext cab... and I am getting close to closing a deal now. I have a lift truck motor and am in the process of rebuilding it. It should be done or close to it this weekend (assuming I get some time away from kids sports on Sunday lol) I'll start up my thread again soon after I get my donor going. I have a piece of Al plate already and am still studying controller options at this point. I also have an ammeter and shunt... I had a brainwave yesterday to get these out of an old DC weld power supply. ( I work in an automotive supply factory) found a brand new 0-800 amp meter with matching shunt (50MV). We have a bunch of these that are going for scrap anyways. 

Cheers.


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

Ok, haven't posted here in a while, so now is better than never.
I've been busy with my job, and now that the season has finished, I have some free time, however its freakin cold out 

Here are some updates since I was here last.

-Got the wheels spinning, it is now officially an electric truck!
-broke and then fixed the vacuum pump, now installed and waiting to be properly tested.
-ignition system is installed, still needs to be hooked up to contactor
-tachometer installed (trial run for reed switch)
-got my Iota DC-DC converter from Ebay, definitely the most economical way to go.
-amp meter circuit started
-volt meter/battery monitor circuit started
-lost my controller, didn't even get to test it out. I found out that it is defective and i should return it to logisystems. I had to return it anyways because it wasn't the one I ordered.
-attended the evTRM and EMC AGM in the last week of November
-today updated website with specifics.

If you have started a conversion and you are in Ontario, (and also have a discussion thread somewhere on this board) post a link here!


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

hey Joel, 

I live in Toronto and am building my EV in Norwich, just outside of woodstock. just thought i'd post let you know i'm not far from you.


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

oh yeah, you are using lithium right?
did you get them yet? Since I haven't spent any money on chargers or batteries yet, I'm still open for ideas. I wonder if the price has dropped recently?

I checked out your website, it's book-marked.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

yep i'm going lithium! but i haven't bought them yet, that is first on the list in the new year. they are still expencive but better then they were. you could get a 144volt pack of 160ah cells for about 13 000 witch is not bad if its a one time buy and better performance and distance. i'lll be dropping around 17 000-18 000 for the 200ah the bms and charger.


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

oooh, i've been busy, lots of things, especially the truck, but even more especially increasing my active job search!  (I totally stopped looking for a job during most of the winter)

I've been keeping my website updated, (more or less), but I wanted to share a couple highlights that I've done which I think are a little different than what most EV converters do.

I wanted to embed the video I made here, but it doesn't work because it is google video 
here is the link
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6169850433070322256

the data sheet for the transducer that the amp meter uses is here I'm using the HTB200 along with a chip that provides -12V (which is probably the cause of the -.03V offset)
this device can be found on digikey for the same price as a 500A shunt.

the temperature sensor is now installed  (still being tested in the video)
and lastly (for this post) I wired up the motor's internal over-heat switch to the trucks "check engine" light. This IS something that others have done, but I wanted to mention it because I had a productive day ^_^


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hi Joel.

Glad you are making headway.

I love your vid.

DP


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey everyone, I've really neglected my website and this forum, I'm really loosing the spirit. 2 reasons for this, one good one bad. first the bad. 

I'm still in between jobs, searching for the right career, my mixed education is really making this way harder than I had thought. I had an interview last week though, and it went really really well, (hybrid technology related, but I don't want to post the company name on here).

the other reason I'm loosing spirit in this project stuff is 
I'VE BEEN DRIVING MY EV AROUND!!

a couple things have been done since my last update here:

got new batteries thanks to Gary (aka DIYguy), (140Ah AGM batteries)

taught myself how to stick weld and put together battery frames. 

Installed frames and batteries. 4 in engine bay, and 8 in bed (I wanted to put them under the bed, but I ran out of time with having the bed off the truck in in the back yard). This also would have required more time, welding,steel and more money. so In the bed they went.

I got a single charger for the whole pack, the 144V select-a-charge from www.chargingchargers.com. MUCH cheaper than a manzanita. (if I used a lithium pack, then i'd get a more expensive charger)

I also built my own battery balancers. my design is based on one I saw a while ago at metricmind. 
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/bms.htm
When using ANY big charger to charge batteries in series, some batteries may get charged slightly quicker than others, and these batteries will generally get over charged in order to bring the whole pack up to its nominal voltage (because other batteries are lagging).
This clamper modual limits the voltage rise to allow the lagging batteries to catch up. This is important because I can't afford to allow any over chargering on these sealed AGMs.

I damaged my battery monitor (LED graphs, same as darren's forkenswift if you have heard of it), so it is sitting on my desk watching me procrastinate in fixing it. In the mean time, i setup a 12:1 resistor voltage divider on the pack and ran a wire to the dash where I have a multimeter which tells me the average pack voltage for each battery)... this is safe because of the resistors, I can even short out the wires and nothing happens.

I have another video of an interview with me for a show called 30minutes, however the show was canceled before it was aired. I'll be uploading it soon, but it will have to be password protected because I don't have permission for a public release.

I got he truck weight at the waste transfer station. with me in the truck, it was only 20lbs under the GVWR... yikes. that was close. I guess I won't be adding any more batteries.

so yeah, it has been great, even though it is not 100% complete, it works!
This project has dragged out way too long and has gone over my budget, so I just want to enjoy it. I've accepted that it will probably never be 100% finished. There will always be something that could be tweaked or replaced with something better.

I see this EV project as a practise round, and to prove that I could do it.
Please keep in mind that I've built this in my friend's driveway, my mom's driveway (no garages), my bedroom and my mom's laundry room (no workshop). This is what separates me from many others.

Today I just completed my longest run without a charge. 54.5Km! (from Hamilton to Burlington and back again). Through the city with mixed traffic, and posted speed limits of 70km/h.
My average pack voltage was 12.22V at the end. I went around and tested each battery the lowest one was 12.19V. So for an AGM battery, what percentage of charge remaining does that tell me? I've beeing seeing conflicting information on reading the no-load voltage on AGM batteries.
The data sheet for these has them rated down to 10.5V (if I went down that low, my dc-dc would stop working and the truck would die, as I not yet have an accessory battery)

thanks for reading this far!


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Joel said:


> I got he truck weight at the waste transfer station. with me in the truck, it was only 20lbs under the GVWR... yikes. that was close. I guess I won't be adding any more batteries.!


 That seems pretty heavy for only adding 12 batteries.... I know they are 100 lbs each but whew.....lol



Joel said:


> Today I just completed my longest run without a charge. 54.5Km! (from Hamilton to Burlington and back again). Through the city with mixed traffic, and posted speed limits of 70km/h.
> My average pack voltage was 12.22V at the end. I went around and tested each battery the lowest one was 12.19V. So for an AGM battery, what percentage of charge remaining does that tell me? I've beeing seeing conflicting information on reading the no-load voltage on AGM batteries.
> The data sheet for these has them rated down to 10.5V (if I went down that low, my dc-dc would stop working and the truck would die, as I not yet have an accessory battery)
> 
> thanks for reading this far!


Nice, Not sure of depth of discharch off the top of my head...but, I think u still have some miles left in that there pack! 

How's the performance...as in acceleration?

G


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah, I dunno whats going on with the weight, the only thing I can think to change is using an aluminum adaptor plate instead of steel, this would shave off 50lbs max though. Either way, it was my original design intention to get MAXIMUM range possible. this means maxing out the weight limit of the vehicle, which meant i needed a pickup truck. (actually, I don't like driving a truck, but its gas-free so, meh)

I use 1st gear for anything under 60km/h. I also get the best acceleration with it. however, I'd still say it is crappy... at first, but very steady. Other cars pull ahead of me at stop lights, but I catch up just as easily.
I have the controller adjusted to a lower-than-default setting. Once I fix my throttle, I will bring up the ramp so I can get a bit more boost of out of.
(the throttle pot jumps from 0-300ohms causing the truck to buck from a standstill... it is quite embarrassing, I have a temporary work around involving a "slow mode" switch to get the wheels moving first.)

it is probably because of this "low setting" I am able to maximize the range in my pack, but a crawling start isn't going to impress anyone

Even while going up very steep hills, my battery-side current never goes over 200amps for more than a few seconds (easy to miss because i'm watching the road)
I think i may have hit 275 amps today going up the hill in 1st gear while flooring the throttle, that was near the end of my trip and the pack was sagging under 11Volts, so i eased off a bit and all was well. kept up with traffic too!

the big hill i keep talking about is the Niagara escarpment, it cuts Hamilton in half, and is definitely a performance test for any EV.


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

*new EV related video*

I have another video to share.
This one is a little different in that I did not make it.
I was interviewed by a journalism student earlier in the spring. This final project normally would have been on the air to the public on CTV's A Channel for London, Wingham, Windsor, but it was canceled. The show was called "30 minutes"

I asked for permission to post it on my website, but because he couldn't verify that it would be ok with everyone involved in the video, he said I couldn't.

So this video is a private publication. Only those who read this thread will have access. 

if you have a youtube account, add me (erroneus) to your friends list, and i'll give you access, otherwise, use this guest account I created just for this. (if privacy becomes a problem, i'll simply remove access to the guest accout)
login: guestdiyev
pass: guesta123

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iDXhQEUxCg

I've held onto this file for about a month, personally, I don't like it because of the crappy video quality (interlacing lines) and I had trouble controlling the umm's and uh's when speaking.
I'm also conflicted in regards to project "better place" versus "Eestor"... (no mention of eestor in the video)


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Joel said:


> I got he truck weight at the waste transfer station. with me in the truck, it was only 20lbs under the GVWR... yikes. that was close. I guess I won't be adding any more batteries.


Hey Joel, so... I was thinking.... I haven't looked up any specs but... if your truck had even close to a 1000 lb payload.... and you removed 600 lbs or so, of ICE stuff, the 1200 lbs of batteries should have left you a little room for cargo/people.... yes-no?


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

i couldn't find the payload capacity documented anywhere, only the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR on a sticker on driver side on inside of door) which is 4080lbs or 1850kg. (1760 without anyone inside) (also, I had the wrong unit in my previous post, I had 20kg / 44lbs free)
Since it was a glider, I couldn't weigh it before the conversion. So I don't know what the original curb weight was. I just assumed that a pickup truck should be able to do 12 batteries or more without a problem.

I agree that something doesn't add up, especially since I took out the spare tire and the lift gate.

so the batteries weight 566kg, the motor weighs 65kg (143lbs)(according to evcalc), adapter plate is probably 50lbs/ 23kg, (1/2" steel... cheap) the charger is 42lbs/19kg
that adds up to 673kg... leaving 1087kg (2396lbs) for the chassis.
it is an 89, and it is a long bed. I dont know if this is normal or not.

The wheels all look normal in the wheel wells, so it doesn't look heavy/over loaded. (see picture) I also don't have any trouble stopping.
edit: I wanted to add that I did not upgrade any springs or shocks (I don't think i need to)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

subtract your original curb weight (probably ~2900lbs) from your gvwr to get your laden capacity with oem brakes, shocks, etc..

If you removed a four cylinder and all related components (fuel tank, exhaust, radiator, etc) then you should have removed ~500-600lbs..

My guess is if you are only using 12 batteries, then you are totall fine with weight. Plus, based on that picture, you certainly don't look like you're overladen. Find a truck stop and weigh it.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> subtract your original curb weight (probably ~2900lbs) from your gvwr to get your laden capacity with oem brakes, shocks, etc..
> 
> If you removed a four cylinder and all related components (fuel tank, exhaust, radiator, etc) then you should have removed ~500-600lbs..
> 
> My guess is if you are only using 12 batteries, then you are totall fine with weight. Plus, based on that picture, you certainly don't look like you're overladen. Find a truck stop and weigh it.


My 97 B4000 has a GVWR of 4920 lbs with a curb weight of around 3300 (i think) I suspect the payload is significantly improved with the added heavy leaf also. I think I will have around 600 -700 lb payload to reach factory GVWR numbers and probably over 1000 lbs of capacity in reality.


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

*EV grin*

I finally got my EV grin today!
This week I solved my "buck" issue by creating a logarithmic throttle pot instead of the crappy pb6 linear one.
I got the idea from the forums here for someone making a pb1 potbox using a gear ratio to use a regular pot instead of a custom dealie.
  

The gears I'm using came from a CDROM tray ejection parts. I really lucked out with the right ration. I have a 5k log pot, (which measures 5.5k in total)
after the gear hook up, (I tried it on the plastic tray the gears came with first), the arm swing matched almost perfectly! (had to reduce it a little, and I added an aluminum bumper on the right side so I don't over crank the pot. 
I added a 50k pot in parallel to reduce the 5.5k to 5.0k, I tested it on the gas pedal in the truck with an ohm meter wired up, and when I put my foot all the way down, i get exactly 5.00k
I can still get a buck if I put too much throttle down while at a standstill, but thats because I'm going clutchless. It is a smooth start when I'm gentle!
You'll notice black stuff in the 3rd picture because I wanted to keep dust and crap off the gears. There is a clear plastic window on the front of it. I also sealed the metal seams with "paint on electrical tape". I also added a silica gel packet on the inside of the potbox to ensure moisture does not build up and wreck the throttle. 

Yesterday I finally re-enforced my motor mounts, it is still too crappy of a job to show online, but I'm doing the best I can with what I have available to me. The point is, I'm much more confident in the mounts now, so that means I allowed myself to reprogram the controller for a higher current ramp and higher limit.
This is what gave me the EV grin, it really has some power to it now!
Acceleration is quite strong, and it COULD BE STRONGER!, but that will only pull more current from the batteries and lower my range... (but increase acceleration )

I'm almost at 900km of accumulated EV time!


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

new intro video,... more like an outro (final video) however it is on the main project page on my website.

the wind and bumpy road causes some rumbling that drowns out the mic a little, but you can still hear if you turn up the volume in those parts


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Joel,

Nice video. Was wondering if you put in a manual steering box or if u r struggling to turn a power box without the pump? Manual box can be had for $50 at a wrecker and it is very quick and easy to install. Just a thought.

Gary


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

I thought about digging up a manual box, but I figured what I did here works fine. I looped back the hydraulic hoses after draining the fluid. It is only a little challenging while parking (shown in video) while driving it is fine.

I had the impression that a manual steering boxs for this age truck are hard to find, especially in good condition. I remember reading somewhere that out of 3 found, the best one still needed rebuilt. I dont think it is worth all that work just to get slightly easier steering. 

For me, it is either this or power steering. My next conversion will have power steering for sure.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Joel said:


> I thought about digging up a manual box, but I figured what I did here works fine. I looped back the hydraulic hoses after draining the fluid. It is only a little challenging while parking (shown in video) while driving it is fine.
> 
> I had the impression that a manual steering boxs for this age truck are hard to find, especially in good condition. I remember reading somewhere that out of 3 found, the best one still needed rebuilt. I dont think it is worth all that work just to get slightly easier steering.
> 
> For me, it is either this or power steering. My next conversion will have power steering for sure.


Hey Joel, it may be a bit challenging...but not too hard to find. Just call a few wreckers and if they have one, ask what year truck it was out of. The same box fits all the F150 and the Rangers and Mazdas although I understand that there were no Mazdas built with this option. You can buy them on-line already rebuilt apparently. Just thought I would throw it out there. I think it's one of those things you might do and then wonder why u didn't do it sooner.... 
It was me who went through a couple of them and rebuilt (I think it was the second one).... but I've been known to be a bit fussy at times...lol 
How are the batteries holding up?


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## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

I had one battery go bad, I used to be able to go to Burlington and back again no probs, but one time I noticed the system sagging more than usual, I checked it out at the end of the trip, a battery was actually getting hot, but the unusual thing is that it still charged up just fine. 

there were 2 batteries in total that sagged severely, one of which got really hot.

the rest are totally fine.

I mentioned it to the guys I got the batteries from, and they exchanged them for free. however one of the 2 that I replaced is now a 135Ah instead of 140, oh well, thats the one I will monitor to represent the pack (my gas gauge is an LED monitor for 12V)


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