# [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

As I previously mentioned in a post, I just had a birthday, and will
be a senior-citizen sooner than I would like (but what are you gonna
do!?). I currently have my drivers license but not too long ago, 
because of my age which exacerbated an eye injury from my Vietnam 
era Military Service forced me to take a 'one-eye' drivers test 
(though I can still see through the reduced vision eye - no, no need
for an eye patch just yet, Popeye).

I got to thinking, as we age, depending on where you live, it becomes 
a fight to still be able to drive. Undoubtedly, sometime in my future
it will be less about my sight and more about my age that keeps me 
from keeping my driver's license.

Imagining years down the road, when the California DMV begins to 
consider me for the old-coot category, and makes it harder to keep
my license, what if ... 

- I decided on my own to limit my driving to sub-highway speeds so my
older/slower brain could keep up with my driving (slow it down to 
keep it safe)

- If the California DMV decided I was not allowed to drive any longer


The first scenario could be to drive a nEV or electric LSV (ts:25mph).
The other would mean I would need to find what vehicles I could still
use without a driver's license (sheesh, this is starting to sound 
depressing).

But here comes some questions that might be interesting for some to 
post about, and let me learn more about my to-be senior driving 
options will be.

Driving a vehicle to the store, no problem. We take that for granted 
all to easily. So, what is it that you like and or need about that to
continue that enjoyment?

If I take the bus, I have to lug all the bags of whatever everywhere.
If I bicycle, I can enjoy the freedom of the ride, if I have enough
carrying capacity, and assuming my old-body still lets me peddle (some
people just can't move, or keep the balance like when they were young).
So, I will need a vehicle that does not 'require' pedaling.

The bicycle and bus is best during fair weather, else it may not be
safe to use either.

If I bicycle, I have to find a secure location that has high visibility
to minimize vandalize. You don't just park you bike in a parking spot,
lock it up, and walk away feeling secure all will be well when you 
return, like you do with a vehicle.
http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRIC-MOTION-CRUISER-BIKE-1000/dp/B0026MD76Y

Of all the nEVs I can seen, only some come with doors of some sort, and
nothing that would deter a thief or vandal from doing their evil.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10131410-1.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/321175697/three_wheel_enclosed_motor_tricycle/showimage.html

http://www.fourgreensteps.com/marketplace/Belize-Bicycle-Tri-Rider-24-Deluxe-Trike.html

So, if I drove a nEV, I would want one that had secure doors that could
be locked up (like a conventional vehicle, not an open-air vehicle).

The initially nEV designs were cheap to produce, but did not last 
(especially their packs made up of 12V PbSO4 batteries). That really 
has not changed from today's designs. Except for a BIGMAN nEV, they use 
6V wet cells, like a golf-cart (T105 type). But, a BIGMAN is an open 
air nEV.

Here is the California DMV page on nEVs
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr37.htm

Then I thought of mopeds, bicycle, ?? So, here is a page that was 
drawn from a CA DMV code page
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/laws.html#electricmopedlaws

An Electric bicycle, tricycle, or quadricycle would not require a 
drivers license. But finding one that has an enclosed body that can
be locked up when parked in a regular parking space is not easy.

I seem to be able to find ice versions a lot easier. Perhaps I 
need to approach this as a conversion project, where an ice version
is obtained, and then conversion over to electric.

Here are some links to explore

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shoprider-Flagship-Enclosed-Cabin-Scooter/12198942?sourceid=1500000000000007346330&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12198942#Specifications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Canopy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorised_quadricycle

http://www.organictransit.com/models.php

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/05/1690139/interest-builds-in-solar-electric.html

In looking at the next link on an ice 3 wheeler
http://www.scooterdepot.us/trike-gas-motor-scooters-150cc-3-wheels-moped-p-730-160.html#pro_tabs-6
it states a 49.5cc ice produces 4.4 HP

But 
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/motorcycles/motorcycles.htm
mentions a moped can only produce 2hp. Hmmm ...

Then there is the design of the ice trike to convert to electric
http://www.scooterdepot.us/moped-scooters-p-1-c-31/trike-gas-motor-scooters-150cc-3-wheels-moped-p-730.html#pro_tabs-6
this 150cc model can not be sold in California.

As you can see I seem to be finding a road block each way I turn.
Anyone have some ideas on all of this?


{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVs-for-those-that-can-no-longer-tp4579424p4579424.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Both my 73-yo mother and 75-yo father use mostly their
bicycle to get around town, visit friends and (grand) children.
It is not so much about starting to bicycle, but to continue
to do so as long as you can.
I regularly see ads for e-trike (3 wheel bicycle with motor)
but there are many NEVs which resemble the "Smart" and even
golf-cart type NEVs with the optional hardshell doors...
It is more about what you consider an acceptable or even
enjoyable solution to your transportation question...

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of brucedp5
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...

As I previously mentioned in a post, I just had a birthday, and will be
a senior-citizen sooner than I would like (but what are you gonna do!?).
I currently have my drivers license but not too long ago, because of my
age which exacerbated an eye injury from my Vietnam era Military Service
forced me to take a 'one-eye' drivers test (though I can still see
through the reduced vision eye - no, no need for an eye patch just yet,
Popeye).

I got to thinking, as we age, depending on where you live, it becomes a
fight to still be able to drive. Undoubtedly, sometime in my future it
will be less about my sight and more about my age that keeps me from
keeping my driver's license.

Imagining years down the road, when the California DMV begins to
consider me for the old-coot category, and makes it harder to keep my
license, what if ... 

- I decided on my own to limit my driving to sub-highway speeds so my
older/slower brain could keep up with my driving (slow it down to
keep it safe)

- If the California DMV decided I was not allowed to drive any longer


The first scenario could be to drive a nEV or electric LSV (ts:25mph).
The other would mean I would need to find what vehicles I could still
use without a driver's license (sheesh, this is starting to sound
depressing).

But here comes some questions that might be interesting for some to post
about, and let me learn more about my to-be senior driving options will
be.

Driving a vehicle to the store, no problem. We take that for granted all
to easily. So, what is it that you like and or need about that to
continue that enjoyment?

If I take the bus, I have to lug all the bags of whatever everywhere.
If I bicycle, I can enjoy the freedom of the ride, if I have enough
carrying capacity, and assuming my old-body still lets me peddle (some
people just can't move, or keep the balance like when they were young).
So, I will need a vehicle that does not 'require' pedaling.

The bicycle and bus is best during fair weather, else it may not be safe
to use either.

If I bicycle, I have to find a secure location that has high visibility
to minimize vandalize. You don't just park you bike in a parking spot,
lock it up, and walk away feeling secure all will be well when you
return, like you do with a vehicle.
http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRIC-MOTION-CRUISER-BIKE-1000/dp/B0026MD76Y

Of all the nEVs I can seen, only some come with doors of some sort, and
nothing that would deter a thief or vandal from doing their evil.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10131410-1.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/321175697/three_wheel_enclosed_motor_t
ricycle/showimage.html

http://www.fourgreensteps.com/marketplace/Belize-Bicycle-Tri-Rider-24-De
luxe-Trike.html

So, if I drove a nEV, I would want one that had secure doors that could
be locked up (like a conventional vehicle, not an open-air vehicle).

The initially nEV designs were cheap to produce, but did not last
(especially their packs made up of 12V PbSO4 batteries). That really has
not changed from today's designs. Except for a BIGMAN nEV, they use 6V
wet cells, like a golf-cart (T105 type). But, a BIGMAN is an open air
nEV.

Here is the California DMV page on nEVs
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr37.htm

Then I thought of mopeds, bicycle, ?? So, here is a page that was drawn
from a CA DMV code page
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/laws.html#electricmopedlaws

An Electric bicycle, tricycle, or quadricycle would not require a
drivers license. But finding one that has an enclosed body that can be
locked up when parked in a regular parking space is not easy.

I seem to be able to find ice versions a lot easier. Perhaps I need to
approach this as a conversion project, where an ice version is obtained,
and then conversion over to electric.

Here are some links to explore

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shoprider-Flagship-Enclosed-Cabin-Scooter/1219
8942?sourceid=1500000000000007346330&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12198942#Spe
cifications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Canopy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorised_quadricycle

http://www.organictransit.com/models.php

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/05/1690139/interest-builds-in-solar-
electric.html

In looking at the next link on an ice 3 wheeler
http://www.scooterdepot.us/trike-gas-motor-scooters-150cc-3-wheels-moped
-p-730-160.html#pro_tabs-6
it states a 49.5cc ice produces 4.4 HP

But
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/motorcycles/motorcycles.htm
mentions a moped can only produce 2hp. Hmmm ...

Then there is the design of the ice trike to convert to electric
http://www.scooterdepot.us/moped-scooters-p-1-c-31/trike-gas-motor-scoot
ers-150cc-3-wheels-moped-p-730.html#pro_tabs-6
this 150cc model can not be sold in California.

As you can see I seem to be finding a road block each way I turn.
Anyone have some ideas on all of this?


{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVs-for-tho
se-that-can-no-longer-tp4579424p4579424.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My dad drove until he was 93 years old, so you may have some time left. Some
years ago I read an article entitled "No Left Turns." An aged couple had
read that many older people have accidents when turning left because they
don't react as quickly, nor discern distance as well, as when they were
younger. The couple decided since one left turn equals three right turns
they would no longer make any left hand turns. Sometimes this would cause
them to get lost, in which case they would just return home since they felt
"nothing is so important it can't wait until tomorrow, or next week." They
lived long lives and continued driving. The author, their son, in jest
attributed their long lives to the "no left turns" rule. I suspect it had
more to do with the "nothing is so important it can't wait until tomorrow,
or next week" attitude.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVs-for-those-that-can-no-longer-tp4579424p4580390.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow! Those are some cool vehicles on the links you suggested.

My opinion is... your opinion. I think the first requirement is deciding
what you really want. Does it need to be enclosed. Is 20mph fast enough.
Do you want to pedal or not? 

Then find a way to make it practical. In particular, you are concerned
about locking. So, if you decide on an open vehicle that's light enough to
pick up, it will need to be locked. There's probably a way to do that, like
bicyclists do. Maybe a long cable? In you personal parking space, if you
have one, maybe you could install a bollard to lock to.

Apart from that, among all the choices, I would lean towards the ones with
large bicycle-sized wheels. The small wheels will not handle bumps and
potholes very well. Othere than that, I can't really tell. They're all so
cool!

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of brucedp5
Sent: 22 April, 2012 9:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...

As I previously mentioned in a post, I just had a birthday, and will be a
senior-citizen sooner than I would like (but what are you gonna do!?). I
currently have my drivers license but not too long ago, because of my age
which exacerbated an eye injury from my Vietnam era Military Service forced
me to take a 'one-eye' drivers test (though I can still see through the
reduced vision eye - no, no need for an eye patch just yet, Popeye).

I got to thinking, as we age, depending on where you live, it becomes a
fight to still be able to drive. Undoubtedly, sometime in my future it will
be less about my sight and more about my age that keeps me from keeping my
driver's license.

Imagining years down the road, when the California DMV begins to consider me
for the old-coot category, and makes it harder to keep my license, what if
... 

- I decided on my own to limit my driving to sub-highway speeds so my
older/slower brain could keep up with my driving (slow it down to
keep it safe)

- If the California DMV decided I was not allowed to drive any longer


The first scenario could be to drive a nEV or electric LSV (ts:25mph).
The other would mean I would need to find what vehicles I could still use
without a driver's license (sheesh, this is starting to sound depressing).

But here comes some questions that might be interesting for some to post
about, and let me learn more about my to-be senior driving options will be.

Driving a vehicle to the store, no problem. We take that for granted all to
easily. So, what is it that you like and or need about that to continue that
enjoyment?

If I take the bus, I have to lug all the bags of whatever everywhere.
If I bicycle, I can enjoy the freedom of the ride, if I have enough carrying
capacity, and assuming my old-body still lets me peddle (some people just
can't move, or keep the balance like when they were young).
So, I will need a vehicle that does not 'require' pedaling.

The bicycle and bus is best during fair weather, else it may not be safe to
use either.

If I bicycle, I have to find a secure location that has high visibility to
minimize vandalize. You don't just park you bike in a parking spot, lock it
up, and walk away feeling secure all will be well when you return, like you
do with a vehicle.
http://www.amazon.com/ELECTRIC-MOTION-CRUISER-BIKE-1000/dp/B0026MD76Y

Of all the nEVs I can seen, only some come with doors of some sort, and
nothing that would deter a thief or vandal from doing their evil.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10131410-1.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/321175697/three_wheel_enclosed_motor_tricy
cle/showimage.html

http://www.fourgreensteps.com/marketplace/Belize-Bicycle-Tri-Rider-24-Deluxe
-Trike.html

So, if I drove a nEV, I would want one that had secure doors that could be
locked up (like a conventional vehicle, not an open-air vehicle).

The initially nEV designs were cheap to produce, but did not last
(especially their packs made up of 12V PbSO4 batteries). That really has not
changed from today's designs. Except for a BIGMAN nEV, they use 6V wet
cells, like a golf-cart (T105 type). But, a BIGMAN is an open air nEV.

Here is the California DMV page on nEVs
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr37.htm

Then I thought of mopeds, bicycle, ?? So, here is a page that was drawn
from a CA DMV code page
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/laws.html#electricmopedlaws

An Electric bicycle, tricycle, or quadricycle would not require a drivers
license. But finding one that has an enclosed body that can be locked up
when parked in a regular parking space is not easy.

I seem to be able to find ice versions a lot easier. Perhaps I need to
approach this as a conversion project, where an ice version is obtained, and
then conversion over to electric.

Here are some links to explore

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shoprider-Flagship-Enclosed-Cabin-Scooter/12198942
?sourceid=1500000000000007346330&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12198942#Specificati
ons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Canopy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorised_quadricycle

http://www.organictransit.com/models.php

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/05/1690139/interest-builds-in-solar-elec
tric.html

In looking at the next link on an ice 3 wheeler
http://www.scooterdepot.us/trike-gas-motor-scooters-150cc-3-wheels-moped-p-7
30-160.html#pro_tabs-6
it states a 49.5cc ice produces 4.4 HP

But
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/motorcycles/motorcycles.htm
mentions a moped can only produce 2hp. Hmmm ...

Then there is the design of the ice trike to convert to electric
http://www.scooterdepot.us/moped-scooters-p-1-c-31/trike-gas-motor-scooters-
150cc-3-wheels-moped-p-730.html#pro_tabs-6
this 150cc model can not be sold in California.

As you can see I seem to be finding a road block each way I turn.
Anyone have some ideas on all of this?


{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVs-for-those-t
hat-can-no-longer-tp4579424p4579424.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

LOL, I like this 

Actually, when the left turn seems just too-hairy, I do, do-this. I 
turn right, hoping to right-turn my way around, but find though safer,
I am still stuck in hairy traffic. So, you could say sometimes I 
follow that "no left turns" rule to feel a sort-of safer hairy
situation. 

Now, if I drove a lockable nEV or enclosed Electric tricycle, both 
of which have weaker acceleration and a less than 30 mph top speed,
I would be even more careful (hmm, no wonder younger drivers hate 
being behind old-people).



-


> tomw wrote:
> > My dad drove until he was 93 years old, so you may have some time left.
> > Some
> > years ago I read an article entitled "No Left Turns." An aged couple had
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bruce Parmenter wrote:
> > Of all the nEVs I can seen, only some come with doors of some sort, and
> > nothing that would deter a thief or vandal from doing their evil.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It is not an uncommon solution - I have seen
many roads where a left turn is not even allowed,
because it *is* too dangerous and even the waiting
for the left causes traffic to back up.
For example a good stretch where 101 winds its way
through San Francisco and every intersection has signals.
The only way to make a left turn is either to pass
your destination street and to turn right 3x around
the next block, or to turn right instead of left,
find a place to safely make a U-turn or turn left
into a driveway and back out into the street so
you again get to the same intersection that you
now can cross straight (on green light).
Or if you are familiar with the area, you can
turn right *before* reaching the left-turn point
and make two left turns (in the side streets) to
reach that intersection...


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...

LOL, I like this 

Actually, when the left turn seems just too-hairy, I do, do-this. I turn
right, hoping to right-turn my way around, but find though safer, I am
still stuck in hairy traffic. So, you could say sometimes I follow that
"no left turns" rule to feel a sort-of safer hairy situation. 

Now, if I drove a lockable nEV or enclosed Electric tricycle, both of
which have weaker acceleration and a less than 30 mph top speed, I would
be even more careful (hmm, no wonder younger drivers hate being behind
old-people).



-


> tomw wrote:
> > My dad drove until he was 93 years old, so you may have some time
> left.
> > Some
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Cor,

Is 101 still a 4 lane road going through San Francisco? I know that I had 
to make three left hand lanes to go right there. In our little town of 
50,000, they change the four lanes to a seven lanes that goes through the 
town for 5 miles. The center lane is a turn left lane with a turn left 
light. The two outside lanes are turn right lanes.

It now saves me about two extra miles using the center turn left lanes.

Driving a ICE only using right hand turns that can turn on a red light, will 
actually save you fuel by not stopping and waiting for a left turn light 
while idling according to my fuel usage display.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...


> It is not an uncommon solution - I have seen
> many roads where a left turn is not even allowed,
> because it *is* too dangerous and even the waiting
> for the left causes traffic to back up.
> For example a good stretch where 101 winds its way
> through San Francisco and every intersection has signals.
> The only way to make a left turn is either to pass
> your destination street and to turn right 3x around
> the next block, or to turn right instead of left,
> find a place to safely make a U-turn or turn left
> into a driveway and back out into the street so
> you again get to the same intersection that you
> now can cross straight (on green light).
> Or if you are familiar with the area, you can
> turn right *before* reaching the left-turn point
> and make two left turns (in the side streets) to
> reach that intersection...
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:06 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...
>
> LOL, I like this 
>
> Actually, when the left turn seems just too-hairy, I do, do-this. I turn
> right, hoping to right-turn my way around, but find though safer, I am
> still stuck in hairy traffic. So, you could say sometimes I follow that
> "no left turns" rule to feel a sort-of safer hairy situation.
>
> Now, if I drove a lockable nEV or enclosed Electric tricycle, both of
> which have weaker acceleration and a less than 30 mph top speed, I would
> be even more careful (hmm, no wonder younger drivers hate being behind
> old-people).
>
>
>
> -
>


> tomw wrote:
> > > My dad drove until he was 93 years old, so you may have some time
> > left.
> > > Some
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Roland,
The stretch that I remember vividly from 101 is 3+3 
*narrow* lanes squeezed between the parked cars against
the curbs and a narrow center divider.


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:14 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...

Hello Cor,

Is 101 still a 4 lane road going through San Francisco? I know that I
had to make three left hand lanes to go right there. In our little town
of 50,000, they change the four lanes to a seven lanes that goes through
the town for 5 miles. The center lane is a turn left lane with a turn
left light. The two outside lanes are turn right lanes.

It now saves me about two extra miles using the center turn left lanes.

Driving a ICE only using right hand turns that can turn on a red light,
will actually save you fuel by not stopping and waiting for a left turn
light while idling according to my fuel usage display.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...


> It is not an uncommon solution - I have seen
> many roads where a left turn is not even allowed,
> because it *is* too dangerous and even the waiting
> for the left causes traffic to back up.
> For example a good stretch where 101 winds its way
> through San Francisco and every intersection has signals.
> The only way to make a left turn is either to pass
> your destination street and to turn right 3x around
> the next block, or to turn right instead of left,
> find a place to safely make a U-turn or turn left
> into a driveway and back out into the street so
> you again get to the same intersection that you
> now can cross straight (on green light).
> Or if you are familiar with the area, you can
> turn right *before* reaching the left-turn point
> and make two left turns (in the side streets) to
> reach that intersection...
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:06 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs for those that can no longer ...
>
> LOL, I like this 
>
> Actually, when the left turn seems just too-hairy, I do, do-this. I
turn
> right, hoping to right-turn my way around, but find though safer, I am
> still stuck in hairy traffic. So, you could say sometimes I follow
that
> "no left turns" rule to feel a sort-of safer hairy situation.
>
> Now, if I drove a lockable nEV or enclosed Electric tricycle, both of
> which have weaker acceleration and a less than 30 mph top speed, I
would
> be even more careful (hmm, no wonder younger drivers hate being behind
> old-people).
>
>
>
> -
>


> tomw wrote:
> > > My dad drove until he was 93 years old, so you may have some time
> > left.
> > > Some
> ...


----------

