# [EVDL] S10 conversion questions



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi folks,

Some of you may have seen an email from me earlier this week that I'm in the
process of transferring my EV components from my 1991 Plymouth Colt (
http://www.evalbum.com/1974) into a 1997 S-10 (2WD, short box). Wanted
something newer, wanted to be able to carry more lead (lithium will be
later; can't afford to do it all right now) and hoping for more range.

That said, I asking for opinions on the following questions: [keep in mind
my budget is very tight so cost is a huge consideration here]

1. The S-10 has power steering (PS). I've heard several solutions:

a. install an electric PS pump
b. go to manual steering by replacing the PS gear box with a manual steering
gear box
c. go to manual steering by simply tieing the lines that would have gone to
the PS pump together and creating a closed loop.

I'm leaning toward c. mostly because of cost. Any potential problems /
issues / major red flags on that one?


2. Want to keep the 120V system to avoid having to buy a new charger. Will
probably buy my batteries at Costco. At this point I'm leaning toward 2
parallel strings of ten 12V Group 24 (yes Marine) batteries. It would weigh
less and cost less than twenty 6V golf cart batteries. By paralleling them
I'd be drawing fewer amps from each and would get about 170 AH. The net
result would be about 900 lbs of batteries in the bed. My question is about
beefing up the rear suspension (currently it has leaf springs). I had about
900 lbs in the bed the other day and the box dropped about 2 1/2" (I
measured it). Clearly I need to do something. Have seen a few options:

a. replace the current springs with springs from the 4WD version of this
truck (from a junkyard)
b. add an airbag suspension system (costly and difficult to do)
c. add additional leaves to the existing springs (requires some disassembly
of the existing leaves)
d. install overload or "helper" springs

I'm leaning toward d. because of both cost and simplicity of installation.
Opinions please!

- Peter Flipsen Jr
Meridian, ID
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What body is your 1997 S-10 short bed truck, standard or extended cab?

My 1985 S-10 Blazer EV was originally a 120VAC system designed by Solar
Electric in Santa Rosa (now defunct). My donor vehicle was from an
Auto Dismantler (B & W Auto Salvage & Parts near you in Boise ID
http://www.bandwautoparts.com/ ). So, my vehicle came to me, made
from 5 vehicles. A 4x4 body, chassis, suspension, and brakes, but
refitted with a manual steering, 2x4 4-speed manual transmission and 
differential, with the ICE, exhaust system, and fuel tank removed.
I got it all that for about $2k back in 1991.

You might do a cheap temporary work around to get the power steering
working, but I suggest you eventually have an electric power steering 
unit so that steering is not an athlete's work-out your wife will not
enjoy.

The converter ensured I had the strongest springs, shocks, and brakes
(different optional Blazer packages offered different strength 
components). It is possible there are beefier S-10 components that
you can use to improve the suspension and braking capabilities. 
Definitely the strongest springs, shocks and brakes are your
eventual goal.

My 1985 2 door 2x4 S-10 Blazer had no problem supporting the original
Trojan T125 120VDC pack. Even when later I had my system voltage 
changed to use a 132VDC T145 pack (much heavier) all worked well,
though my EV was now much more of a lead-sled (not recommended).

In hindsight, I believe a 144V pack using the lighter 6V traction
(golf) batteries would have worked better for me. You might want to
keep that target in mind for a future use as your controller and 
motor are happiest a 144V design, and adding a way to charge the 
additional 24V is not that big a deal.

My original 120VAC T125 pack weighed (20 batteries * 66lbs=) 1320lbs
If I had used the lighter US1800 batteries as a 144V pack
(24 batteries * 56 lbs=) 1344lbs

You might want to have the pack in the bed for now as a low-cost
quickie, but consider your eventual goal as having an easy tilt bed 
so that the 144V pack can be mounted under the bed, with proper 
insulation and cooling fans for your 30- degree winters and your 
100+ degree summers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian,_Idaho#Climate

Idaho Falls Sam's Club could supply you your best-bang-for-the-buck:
http://www3.samsclub.com/clublocator/statelisting.aspx?mySearch=state&myState=ID

StowAway STGC2 (Mfg. by Exide for Sam's Clubs, equivalent to Exide E3600)
390Min @25Amps, 110Min @75Amps, 186Ah @20Amps, 62 Lbs

You are still looking at using the wrong type of batteries. Series
parallel group 24 deep-cycles (IMHO) are not going to save you money
and your range will be short.

You mentioned you want to keep the pack weight down to 900lbs. That is
very aggressive, and will severely limit your range which you said you
want more of (?!?)

Instead consider a different approach. 
120VDC / 8VDC is 15 batteries. 15 US Battery US8VGCE's is 
(15 * 55lbs=) 825lbs. 8V traction (golf) batteries are more suited
for EV use than marine type batteries (6V ones are what is really
needed here). 

Example: over 5 years ago, a local SJEAA member had a nice Jet 
Industries (Escort) conversion EV. These are originally a 96V
T105 type pack, with a heavy boat-anchor transformer type onboard
charger. He got a 45 mile range at a constant 55mph, or worst case
a 32 mile range in stop-n-go city traffic.

He removed the charger, upgraded to a lighter one for a 120V pack of 
8V traction batteries (his controller and motor were OK with 120V).
He now had a shorter range but the performance he craved. He got 
30 miles range at a constant 55mph, and worst case 22 mile range in
stop-n-go city traffic. 

8V battery pack would keep your pack weight the way you want, and 
give you better range that you want.


It pays to shop around. Costco is not the best place to buy EV
batteries.

There is a US Battery dealer 10 miles from you
http://www.usbattery.com/usb_id_contacts.html

http://www.batterydistributorsinc.com/pdf/usb_golf_fly_2a_08.pdf
6 Volt 20H 75A L W H lbs
US1800 208 107 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/4 56
US2000 216 114 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/4 59
US2200 232 122 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/4 63
US125 242 140 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/4 67
US145 251 154 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-7/8 70

8 Volt 20H 75A L W H lbs
US8VGCE 121 60 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/8 55
US8VGC 170 90 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/4 64.5
US8VGCHC 183 95 10-1/4 7-1/8 11-1/4 69

Here you can find the Interstate (Exide) dealers near you
http://www.superpages.com/bp/Meridian-ID/Interstate-Battery-System-L0084112993.htm

Here you can find the Trojan dealers near you
http://www.trojanbattery.com/tools/dealers.aspx

There are many Golf courses in the Boise area
http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/city.aspx?dest=Meridian+ID
If you find out what batteries they use and get the contact info 
for who they buy from you might get a good deal.

Another point, the better bang for the buck is the price break the
dealers get for the amount of a battery type they sell. So, if 
the dealer does not usually that many US1800 batteries the price will
be higher. But if he regularly has annual orders from local golf 
courses for literally tons of US2000 batteries, the dealer is going to
get a very good price break on US2000 batteries which he could pass on
to you.

Before the demise of my 15+ year EV, my last pack I decided to change 
it up and use a lower cost lighter pack (I wasn't doing any long runs
at that time). From my local US Battery dealer, I got the price for 20
of the various 6V traction (golf) batteries.

Using the cost divided by the [email protected], I found the best 
cost effective purchase. The US2200 was the better buy because all the
Golf courses around here buy them from my dealer.

Take some time to do your homework if you have restrictions (cost, 
etc.) you need to abide by. Be sure to plan for the future. That will
save you money in the long run as you will have less re-work.




{brucedp.150m.com}

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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Peter,
In my '89 extended cab S10, I replaced the power steering gear box
with a manual one. The only time I want power steering is when I'm in
a tight spot and need to turn while standing still, or when I have a
trailer hooked to the truck and I'm trying to back it up, otherwise it
works well.
Hope this helps,
-- =

Suck Amps,
Dave "Battery Boy" Hawkins
Check out our website!
http://bbevs.com/

> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:19:06 -0600
> From: "SLPinfo.org"
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Some of you may have seen an email from me earlier this week that I'm in =
the
> process of transferring my EV components from my 1991 Plymouth Colt (
> http://www.evalbum.com/1974) into a 1997 S-10 (2WD, short box). Wanted
> something newer, wanted to be able to carry more lead (lithium will be
> later; can't afford to do it all right now) and hoping for more range.
>
> That said, I asking for opinions on the following questions: [keep in =
mind
> my budget is very tight so cost is a huge consideration here]
>
> 1. The S-10 has power steering (PS). I've heard several solutions:
>
> a. install an electric PS pump
> b. go to manual steering by replacing the PS gear box with a manual steer=
ing
> gear box
> c. go to manual steering by simply tieing the lines that would have gone =
to
> the PS pump together and creating a closed loop.
>
> I'm leaning toward c. mostly because of cost. Any potential problems /
> issues / major red flags on that one?
<snippage>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Peter,

Lowest cost is to do nothing.
My 1994 S10 longbed (factory converted by US Electricar)
had electric power steering and vacuum pump, but when my
DC/DC failed I had to dramatically lower the draw from
the 12V system to allow the aux battery to survive in
deep cycle mode.
So, I disconnected the PS and vacuum pumps and I already
had disconnected the main fan (since the original radiator
was retained, so it had excess cooling capacity and did not
need a big radiator anyway) and the draw was reduced to around
10A (20A at night).
This meant that steering (and braking) was harder than the
original, but except when trying to turn the wheels at a
standstill (which you should never do anyway unless you do
not value your tires) it did not make too much difference.
Of course, I could not steer with a single finger like
some power steering cars allow, but I am used to manual
vehicles, so it did not hinder me too much.
I drove around like that for 2 years, daily commuting...

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:19 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions

Hi folks,

Some of you may have seen an email from me earlier this week that I'm in
the process of transferring my EV components from my 1991 Plymouth Colt
(
http://www.evalbum.com/1974) into a 1997 S-10 (2WD, short box). Wanted
something newer, wanted to be able to carry more lead (lithium will be
later; can't afford to do it all right now) and hoping for more range.

That said, I asking for opinions on the following questions: [keep in
mind my budget is very tight so cost is a huge consideration here]

1. The S-10 has power steering (PS). I've heard several solutions:

a. install an electric PS pump
b. go to manual steering by replacing the PS gear box with a manual
steering gear box c. go to manual steering by simply tieing the lines
that would have gone to the PS pump together and creating a closed loop.

I'm leaning toward c. mostly because of cost. Any potential problems /
issues / major red flags on that one?


2. Want to keep the 120V system to avoid having to buy a new charger.
Will probably buy my batteries at Costco. At this point I'm leaning
toward 2 parallel strings of ten 12V Group 24 (yes Marine) batteries.
It would weigh less and cost less than twenty 6V golf cart batteries.
By paralleling them I'd be drawing fewer amps from each and would get
about 170 AH. The net result would be about 900 lbs of batteries in the
bed. My question is about beefing up the rear suspension (currently it
has leaf springs). I had about 900 lbs in the bed the other day and the
box dropped about 2 1/2" (I measured it). Clearly I need to do
something. Have seen a few options:

a. replace the current springs with springs from the 4WD version of
this truck (from a junkyard) b. add an airbag suspension system (costly
and difficult to do) c. add additional leaves to the existing springs
(requires some disassembly of the existing leaves) d. install overload
or "helper" springs

I'm leaning toward d. because of both cost and simplicity of
installation.
Opinions please!

- Peter Flipsen Jr
Meridian, ID
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Bruce and others,

It's a standard cab.

Never said I wanted to limit battery weight to 900 lbs. That's just what it
would be if I used those batteries.

Am planning on lithium next so this battery choice is expedient based on
cost. Understand range will be less but i'm used to having only 12 miles of
range and my commute is only 10 so if I can manage 18-20 that will be a big
improvement for me.

Batteries in the bed is also expedient choice. Should involve least work.
Will determine better placement when I go to lithium.

Peter


> "brucedp5" <[email protected]> wrote:
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> SLPinfo.org wrote:
> 
> 
> > 1. The S-10 has power steering (PS). I've heard several solutions:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Peter, I'm wrestling with some of the same questions you are right now.

I'm converting an 86 Toyota Pickup; I went with adjustable helper springs,
easy, cheap and actually work surprisingly well from what I'm told.
Obviously just measure the ride height before installing batteries, then
install, if it sags too low jack up and tighten the helpers 
(I also went with some Gabriel air shocks, rather than a bag system, they
will take between 30 and 200psi)

For batteries I'm going with the Trojan "T" series, I too wanted to go with
the T-105 6v, but I actually just lucked out and got 12 used T-875 8v to
start me off slooow  they're within 1/8" of each other in size and 1lb in
weight. 16 is better than 20 of course, but 8v's will likely have a shorter
life if I don't temper my driving, I don't plan on more than 50mph anyway.

For batteries I'd probably just say - less lead = less range and most likely
less life as you're working it harder.
Flooded users most likely have to get used to the weight engineering
challenges and the fact your vehicle
is going to feel like a tank. 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

John

I probably shouldn't have said marine because that term means different
things to different people. They are called 'deep cycle' by Costco but I
have recently seen several list members insist that as long as they are 12V
they are marine. For some manufacturers they have 12V deep cycle and 12V
dual purpose (a compromise between deep cycle and starting). I believe that
is true of Johnson Controls who make these batteries for Costco.

But I didn't want to debate batteries. I was asking about steering and
suspension mods.

Peter


> "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 4/13/2011 8:19 AM, SLPinfo.org wrote:
> >> 2. Want to keep the 120V system to avoid having to buy a new charger.
> Will
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My motor has a tail shaft but anything you put on that affects range. And
I'd have to pay someone for the time to design and install this. I paid to
have the origjnal conversion done and I'm paying to have things transferred
over to the new donor. I don't have the skills or the tools to do it myself.

Peter


> "Dave Davidson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Bob Rice was always one doing what worked cheaply. On his Jetta, he
> > drove the original power steering pump as well as a vacuum pump from a
> > diesel off of the tail shaft of his motor. He had power steering while
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave Davidson wrote:
> > Bob Rice was always one doing what worked cheaply. On his Jetta, he
> 
> We haven't heard anything about Bob in quite a while. ?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Bruce,

A couple of additional responses after looking at your message in more
detail:

1. Idaho Falls is a 6 hour drive away. I would have no easy or inexpensive
way to get the batteries home from there.

2. Thanks for reminding me about 8V batteries. Although I wasn't asking
about batteries, it may be helpful. I will give them serious consideration.

3. Much thanks for taking the time to provide all this info and the other
info you give to the group. I don't often read every detail of your posts,
but you clearly care about EVs and I for one appreciate the effort you put
forth.

- Peter Flipsen Jr
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > I probably shouldn't have said marine because that term means different
> > things to different people.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Lee.

I'm seeing lead as very much a transition here, so if I got 2 years of life
from a pack I'd be happy. That'll give me time to save up for lithium. My
experience with a single string of 12V in my Colt is exactly as you say -
less than a year for each of the 2 packs I've had. Am currently doing the
math on 8V batteries. You and Bruce appear to be correct that they probably
would be a better option in terms of life. Bonus = simpler to set up the
wiring and fewer cells to check.

Thanks for the insight on steering. Will look into finding a manual
steering box. I had a similar size pickup a few years ago with manual
steering and I had no problem steering it and neither did my wife so that
may be the way to go.

Re: suspension. I have been almost obsessive about keeping within GVWR. I
am not an engineer and I prefer to trust that the GVWR value is there for a
reason: safety! So I have trouble understanding why someone would risk
going over that value. That's part of the reason I kept to 12V batts on my
Colt. My S-10 has a curb weight of about 3000 lbs (with ICE) and a GVWR of
4200. I'll gain a few hundred lbs in getting rid of the ICE stuff but that
still likely means I'll only have about 1400 lbs of capacity to play with
after the conversion With the weight of 2 adults of 400 lbs I would
probably want to keep battery weight under 1000 (I literally just did that
math, so thanks for getting me to do that). My 12V parallel string option
fits within that, but so would a single string of 15 X 8V batts. Both get me
about 170 AH so range should be similar. Given other advantages noted above,
I'm starting to lean in that direction.

I had about 900 lbs in the truck the other day (getting rid of the old 12V
batts) and <[email protected]> although it could handle it and I didn't notice much
"handling" problem, the ride height (at the rear wheel wells) dropped about
2 1/2" and the front came up about a 1/2". I really think I should adjust
somehow. Will think about the options more. I'm still leaning toward
"helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be adjusted
to "level" the load". I was hoping someone had actually tried them, so I
could hear how they worked.

- Peter
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 14 Apr 2011 at 10:48, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > With rare exceptions, 12v batteries are not true deep cycle.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions



I had about 900 lbs in the truck the other day (getting rid of the old 12V 
batts) and <[email protected]> although it could handle it and I didn't notice much 
"handling" problem, the ride height (at the rear wheel wells) dropped about 
2 1/2" and the front came up about a 1/2". I really think I should adjust 
somehow. Will think about the options more. I'm still leaning toward 
"helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be adjusted 
to "level" the load". I was hoping someone had actually tried them, so I 
could hear how they worked.

Hello Peter,

Take a look at my EV at: evalbum.com/470 You will see that the wheel wells 
are down over the wheels. If you look at a lot of vehicles new and old, 
there is a lot of space between the top of the wheel well and the top of the 
tire. When I first built this EV, I left all the suspension system as stock 
only using Monroe Air shocks on the rear to level it. Modified the EV as 
needed later on.

The EV weighing 6860 lbs with 4400 lbs on the rear axle, the rear axles 
bearings worn a groove in the axles after driving it for a total of 25 years 
with a combination of engine only, engine-electric hybrid and now electric 
only. I replace the axils with a mark&williams.com heavy duty larger axil 
that now rides on a bearing set with inner and outer races that is rated for 
4000 lbs.

The next mod I did about 2 years ago is to remove the front springs and 
shocks and install a unit that is call Shock Wave made by Air Ride 
Technologies - www.ridetech.com. This now lowers the front while having the 
rear Monroe Air Shocks at 80 psi instead at 120 psi to keep it level. It 
now rides soft.

It is best to use 6 volt golf-cart batteries where they will last longer if 
you size the number of batteries to maintain 75 amps in any gear you select 
at a certain rpm. With my EV, I can maintain 75 battery amps while driving 
on a level in final gear, accelerating in 1st gear or climbing a hill in 1st 
or 2nd gear.

Try to maintain the sweet spot rpm for your motor which is the point where 
it producers the maximum torque. For a 11 inch motor it is about 1800 rpm 
and for a 9 inch motor it is about 3300 rpm for a WarP motor. Contact the 
motor technical department, and they will email you a spread sheet which 
type of motor to use, the sweet spot, the overall gearing which is best in 
each gear. Later on I change the differential gear from a 2.76:1 to a 
5.57:1 which lower the motor and battery ampere.

Make sure when choosing a battery pack, you want all the manufacture dates 
the same. Do not use the batteries that has been setting at the dealer for 
sometime. I have found that some of there batteries range from 3 to 9 months 
old. Also do not use any of these batteries with a Low Profile Post which I 
had pull out only applying 75 inch pound of torque. This type of stud type 
connector is suppose to be rated for 95-105 in.lbs. If you page through the 
evalbum.com/470 and look at the batteries which had the low profile post, I 
had to use all positive marine post battery clamp that went around the pad 
which put internal pressure on the head of the bolt-stud.

These batteries lasted me 8.8 years driving using a daily ampere-hour of 5 
AH to 50 AH at a average of 75 battery amps.

Here are some formulas to actually calculated the usable ampere-hour of a 
battery.

Divide the Reserve Minutes (RM) by 60 . The multiply that result times the 
battery amps rated at that RM. Example:

The marine battery rated at 85 AH at a 20 hour rating which is 85/20 = 4.25 
ah. This means you could drive a EV with a battery ampere usage of 4.25 ah 
per hour for 20 hours for 100% DOD. Looking at a battery chart for a 85 AH 
battery will have a 36 RM at 75 battery amps, therefore the calculation for 
the 75 battery amps is:

36 RM / 60 = 0.6 hours

0.6 hr x 75 amps = 45 ampere hours at 100% DOD

45 ah / 2 = 22.5 usable ampere hours at 50% DOD

Now lets say your EV can get 2 ah per mile, this leaves you with about 
22.5/2 = 11.25 mile range.

Here is another formula to choose the correct overall gear ratio in a 
vehicle:


MPH = (RPM x Tire Circumference)/(Overall gear ratio x 
1056)

or

RPM = (MPH x Overall gear ratio x 1056)/Tire Circumference


The Overall gear ratio in each transmission gear is by multiplying the 
transmission gear ratio to the differential ratio.

The Tire Circumference is best attain by putting a mark on the tire and 
floor and move the vehicle so that mark on the tire is on the floor. Then 
measure that distance between the two marks.


Then there is the Tire Deflection Calculation which you may have to change 
if the weight on each wheel is different than the stock specifications.

First look at the tire maximum load rating at the specific air pressure at 
that load. Then find the side wall deflection while the vehicle is still in 
ICE stock form or find out this info from some other vehicle. Make sure the 
vehicle tires are air up to the recommended manufacture specifications. 
Have the vehicle park on a true level floor and measure from the floor to 
the lower wheel rim edge of the tire.

Lets say this is 4 inches for a tire that has a load rating of 1500 lbs at 
35 psi. Then jack the vehicle up so the tire is just touching the floor, 
and measure again. Lets say it now reads 4.5 inches. This means this tire 
has a deflection rate of 0.5 inch for that type of tire.

Now when you complete your EV, take it to a weigh station and weigh the 
front, rear and the whole vehicle. Lets say if load rating is still under 
1500 lbs per wheel, then the 35 psi is still good. I find my load rating on 
my rear axils is 4400 lbs or 2200 per wheel, so I choose at tire that has at 
least a load rating of 2200 lbs which has a max 50 psi.

I air up the tire to 50 psi and adjust the tire pressure to have the same 
side wall deflection rate which was 0.5 inch.


Roland






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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One more thing worth mentioning... Most of the trucks I've seen have a 
rear brake proportioning valve that is connected to the bed of the truck. 
When the truck is loaded, the valve supplies more braking power to the 
rear wheels. The idea is to keep the rear wheels from locking up when the 
bed is empty (light), but still provide adequate braking while carrying 
heavy loads.

If you re-level the suspension with helper springs you may want to fiddle 
with the proportioning valve so the rear brakes provide a bit more 
stopping power. With 20 6V batteries in the back of my truck I ended up 
removing the valve completely.

The valve itself is usually located near one of the rear wheels, and has a 
long lever that extends to someplace near the differential.

-Adrian




> SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > I had about 900 lbs in the truck the other day (getting rid of the old
> > 12V
> > batts) and <[email protected]> although it could handle it and I didn't notice much
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hanging stuff off the tailshaft isn't hard. I don't remember if Bob
welded up a bracket or used one he already had, but he used pullies
from the hardware store, then measured for the belt. Very simple.
Also, it will affect your range so little you won't even be able to
measure it.

On 4/14/11, SLPinfo.org <[email protected]> wrote:
> My motor has a tail shaft but anything you put on that affects range. And
> I'd have to pay someone for the time to design and install this. I paid to
> have the origjnal conversion done and I'm paying to have things transferred
> over to the new donor. I don't have the skills or the tools to do it myself.
>
> Peter
>


> "Dave Davidson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Bob Rice was always one doing what worked cheaply. On his Jetta, he
> >> drove the original power steering pump as well as a vacuum pump from a
> >> diesel off of the tail shaft of his motor. He had power steering while
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Anything involving welding qualifies as difficult to me.

- Peter



> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hanging stuff off the tailshaft isn't hard. I don't remember if Bob
> > welded up a bracket or used one he already had, but he used pullies
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland,

I was talking about having two strings in parallel which would give me 170
AH (double the 85).

But 8V batteries are looking better and better the more I think about it.
6V would be too heavy (I refuse to go over GVWR and I want to stay at 120V
so I don't have to change my charger).

- Peter
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok, lets say the 8 volt battery is rated at 150 AH at a 20 hour rating or 
150/20 = 7.5 ah. At a 75 battery ampere, than the reserve minutes is now at 
75 minutes to 100% DOD.

The usable ampere-hour now becomes:

75 RM /60 mins = 1.25 hours

1.25 hrs x 75 amps = 93.75 ah at 100% DOD

93.75/2 = 46.875 ah at 60% DOD

2 ah per mile is about 23 mile range at steady driving
3 ah per mile is about 15 mile range with stop and go
4 ah per mile climbing hills is about 12 miles range


Life cycle is to be estimate at about 1150 cycles at 75 battery amps 
discharge to 50% DOD at every cycle.

If you have one cycle every day, then the life of the battery will be about 
1150/365 = 3.75 years.

Roland







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions


> Roland,
>
> I was talking about having two strings in parallel which would give me 170
> AH (double the 85).
>
> But 8V batteries are looking better and better the more I think about it.
> 6V would be too heavy (I refuse to go over GVWR and I want to stay at 120V
> so I don't have to change my charger).
>
> - Peter
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Quoting "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>:

> Thanks Lee.
>
> I'm seeing lead as very much a transition here, so if I got 2 years of life
> from a pack I'd be happy. That'll give me time to save up for lithium. My
> experience with a single string of 12V in my Colt is exactly as you say -
> less than a year for each of the 2 packs I've had. Am currently doing the
> math on 8V batteries. You and Bruce appear to be correct that they probably
> would be a better option in terms of life. Bonus = simpler to set up the
> wiring and fewer cells to check.
>
> Thanks for the insight on steering. Will look into finding a manual
> steering box. I had a similar size pickup a few years ago with manual
> steering and I had no problem steering it and neither did my wife so that
> may be the way to go.
>
> Re: suspension. I have been almost obsessive about keeping within GVWR. I
> am not an engineer and I prefer to trust that the GVWR value is there for a
> reason: safety! So I have trouble understanding why someone would risk
> going over that value. That's part of the reason I kept to 12V batts on my
> Colt. My S-10 has a curb weight of about 3000 lbs (with ICE) and a GVWR of
> 4200. I'll gain a few hundred lbs in getting rid of the ICE stuff but that
> still likely means I'll only have about 1400 lbs of capacity to play with
> after the conversion With the weight of 2 adults of 400 lbs I would
> probably want to keep battery weight under 1000 (I literally just did that
> math, so thanks for getting me to do that). My 12V parallel string option
> fits within that, but so would a single string of 15 X 8V batts. Both get me
> about 170 AH so range should be similar. Given other advantages noted above,
> I'm starting to lean in that direction.
>
> I had about 900 lbs in the truck the other day (getting rid of the old 12V
> batts) and <[email protected]> although it could handle it and I didn't notice much
> "handling" problem, the ride height (at the rear wheel wells) dropped about
> 2 1/2" and the front came up about a 1/2". I really think I should adjust
> somehow. Will think about the options more.

I'm still leaning toward
> "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be adjusted
> to "level" the load". I was hoping someone had actually tried them, so I
> could hear how they worked.

> My helper springs, from the local spring shop work for me on my 2000 
> S10. http://www.evalbum.com/1223

Ron Solberg
> - Peter
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ron,

Thanks! I don 't suppose you know the brand of the "helper springs"? Or
the model?

Also wonder if you could explain your power steering setup. It's not very
clear what it is from your evalbum page.

- Peter Flipsen Jr



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I'm still leaning toward
> > > "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Peter,

I live in the Boise valley also and happen to own a 3/4 ton Suburban and a
3-horse slant-load trailer. With a little work on my wife, I might be able
to talk her into a road trip to Idaho Falls. It wouldn't be real cheap
because the Suburban gets about 10 mpg, but it might be an option if the
battery cost were cheap enough.

Mike

P.S. Interesting EV tidbit: I drove the Suburban to Bozeman, Montana to
pick up my car and bring it home on a trailer. I calculated that the
Suburban took about 1/4 the gas I would save driving the conversion for a
year, just to go get the car and haul it home! Oh, well.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of SLPinfo.org
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 8:15 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions

Bruce,

A couple of additional responses after looking at your message in more
detail:

1. Idaho Falls is a 6 hour drive away. I would have no easy or inexpensive
way to get the batteries home from there.

2. Thanks for reminding me about 8V batteries. Although I wasn't asking
about batteries, it may be helpful. I will give them serious consideration.

3. Much thanks for taking the time to provide all this info and the other
info you give to the group. I don't often read every detail of your posts,
but you clearly care about EVs and I for one appreciate the effort you put
forth.

- Peter Flipsen Jr
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Quoting "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>:

> Ron,
>
> Thanks! I don 't suppose you know the brand of the "helper springs"? Or
> the model?

My mechanic got the springs from a truck brake and spring shop in 
Sioux Falls, SD. I will try and get you more information later.
>
> Also wonder if you could explain your power steering setup. It's not very
> clear what it is from your evalbum page.

All we did was put a toggle switch in the cab by the shift lever. The 
rest came with the kit from Canada. KTA was not taking orders then as 
it was for sale or I would have bought the kit from them.....Ron
>
> - Peter Flipsen Jr
>
>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm still leaning toward
> >> > "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Mike

Appreciate the offer but since the EV parts transfer will happen in Salt
Lake, I'll probably buy the batteries down there. The S10 is currently
drivable so I'll drive it there as an ICE. Carl.Clark will trailer the
finished truck back to me.

Peter


> "Mike Nickerson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > I live in the Boise valley also and happen to own a 3/4 ton Suburban and a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Quoting [email protected]:

> Quoting "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>:
>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Thanks! I don 't suppose you know the brand of the "helper springs"? Or
>> the model?
>
> My mechanic got the springs from a truck brake and spring shop in
> Sioux Falls, SD. I will try and get you more information later.
>>
>> Also wonder if you could explain your power steering setup. It's not very
>> clear what it is from your evalbum page.
>
> All we did was put a toggle switch in the cab by the shift lever. The
> rest came with the kit from Canada. KTA was not taking orders then as
> it was for sale or I would have bought the kit from them.....Ron
>>
>> - Peter Flipsen Jr
>>
>>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm still leaning toward
> >>> > "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks much for following up.

- PF



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Quoting [email protected]:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I bought some from here.

http://www.suspensionconnection.com


Dennis=
=

Elsberry, MO=
=

http://www.evalbum.com/1366 =

http://www.evalbum.com/3715=
=
=




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] =

Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions

Quoting [email protected]:

> Quoting "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>:
>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Thanks! I don 't suppose you know the brand of the "helper springs"? Or
>> the model?
>
> My mechanic got the springs from a truck brake and spring shop in
> Sioux Falls, SD. I will try and get you more information later.
>>
>> Also wonder if you could explain your power steering setup. It's not ve=
ry
>> clear what it is from your evalbum page.
>
> All we did was put a toggle switch in the cab by the shift lever. The
> rest came with the kit from Canada. KTA was not taking orders then as
> it was for sale or I would have bought the kit from them.....Ron
>>
>> - Peter Flipsen Jr
>>
>>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm still leaning toward
> >>> > "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dennis,

Thanks - I ordered some Hellwig helper springs this weekend.

Now I'm looking for a manual steering box. Apparently manual steering
wasn't an option on the S10 after 1993, but I've also read that a manual box
from one of the 1st generation S10s (1982-1993) should bolt right up.

- Peter



On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <
[email protected]> wrote:

> I bought some from here.
>
> http://www.suspensionconnection.com
>
>
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> http://www.evalbum.com/3715
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:55 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions
>
> Quoting [email protected]:
>
> > Quoting "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>:
> >
> >> Ron,
> >>
> >> Thanks! I don 't suppose you know the brand of the "helper springs"?
> Or
> >> the model?
> >
> > My mechanic got the springs from a truck brake and spring shop in
> > Sioux Falls, SD. I will try and get you more information later.
> >>
> >> Also wonder if you could explain your power steering setup. It's not
> very
> >> clear what it is from your evalbum page.
> >
> > All we did was put a toggle switch in the cab by the shift lever. The
> > rest came with the kit from Canada. KTA was not taking orders then as
> > it was for sale or I would have bought the kit from them.....Ron
> >>
> >> - Peter Flipsen Jr
> >>
> >>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I'm still leaning toward
> > >>> > "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dennis,

I saw your offer to share your autocad drawings for your 1965 Datsun. =

I am making plans to teach a high school class next year entitled "The =

Psychology of Energy Use" and am wondering if the drawings might =

inspire students. I plan to go many different directions and am =

interested in what you think about this idea. I was going to convert =

my 1972 Datsun pick up but did an S-10 instead.

Ron Solberg
Quoting "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>:

> I bought some from here.
>
> http://www.suspensionconnection.com
>
>
> Dennis=

> Elsberry, MO=

> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> http://www.evalbum.com/3715=
=

>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:55 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 conversion questions
>
> Quoting [email protected]:
>
>> Quoting "SLPinfo.org" <[email protected]>:
>>
>>> Ron,
>>>
>>> Thanks! I don 't suppose you know the brand of the "helper springs"? =
Or
>>> the model?
>>
>> My mechanic got the springs from a truck brake and spring shop in
>> Sioux Falls, SD. I will try and get you more information later.
>>>
>>> Also wonder if you could explain your power steering setup. It's not v=
ery
>>> clear what it is from your evalbum page.
>>
>> All we did was put a toggle switch in the cab by the shift lever. The
>> rest came with the kit from Canada. KTA was not taking orders then as
>> it was for sale or I would have bought the kit from them.....Ron
>>>
>>> - Peter Flipsen Jr
>>>
>>>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm still leaning toward
> >>>> > "helper" springs since they are relatively inexpensive and can be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Thanks - I ordered some Hellwig helper springs this weekend.
> ...


----------

