# Elcon charger voltage adjust



## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Having custom ordered the wrong voltage charger, was left with the only option of shipping the charger back to China to have it adjusted but thanks to Ian Bruinsma here in Sydney was able to make the voltage adjustable.
Originally the voltage cut off at 80.1v (LiFePo4 24s 1p 72v 8Ah)
This charger is for my Giant MTB with hub motor.
Putting a trim pot and resistor in was able to make the output DC voltage adjustable from 83v to 89v. Ideally it should cut out at 87.6v for 3.65v each cell but I still havnt got a BMS for this battery yet so have left it at its minimum 83v.
Ian is starting to convert a Smart car to AC drive so you might find him around here asking questions so help him out if you can.
cheers Ripperton


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RIPPERTON said:


> Having custom ordered the wrong voltage charger, was left with the only option of shipping the charger back to China to have it adjusted but thanks to Ian Bruinsma here in Sydney was able to make the voltage adjustable.
> Originally the voltage cut off at 80.1v (LiFePo4 24s 1p 72v 8Ah)
> This charger is for my Giant MTB with hub motor.
> Putting a trim pot and resistor in was able to make the output DC voltage adjustable from 83v to 89v. Ideally it should cut out at 87.6v for 3.65v each cell but I still havnt got a BMS for this battery yet so have left it at its minimum 83v.
> ...


Thanks Ripper! you never know. I stuffed it away in my charger file.  I have a 6 kw Elcon set up for 192 volt AGM's. Lithium is in my future and it will have to be modified.... but I was wondering about this also...


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## SmartArseEV (Aug 27, 2011)

OK  - It was me... I am now visible as SmartArseEV...

Thanks RIPERTON for the acknowledgment.

This was not my best work (it was a quick and nasty modification), but it was worth posting. If it helps any of you EV converters out there well excellent!


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## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

RIPPERTON said:


> ... was able to make the voltage adjustable.


OH! thank you thank you, this is exactly what I needed


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## FWD (Feb 3, 2012)

RIPPERTON said:


> Having custom ordered the wrong voltage charger, was left with the only option of shipping the charger back to China to have it adjusted but thanks to Ian Bruinsma here in Sydney was able to make the voltage adjustable.
> Originally the voltage cut off at 80.1v (LiFePo4 24s 1p 72v 8Ah)
> This charger is for my Giant MTB with hub motor.
> Putting a trim pot and resistor in was able to make the output DC voltage adjustable from 83v to 89v. Ideally it should cut out at 87.6v for 3.65v each cell but I still havnt got a BMS for this battery yet so have left it at its minimum 83v.
> ...


is it still working? no problems over time of use?

i am going to do this mod to mine is 292 volt max and i need 262 so i do the down adjustment


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## FWD (Feb 3, 2012)

double post


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## FWD (Feb 3, 2012)

ok my elcon with 292 end voltage is not the same
between pin 2 and dc+ there is not 75k ohm but 600k ohm.

i geuss thats because the voltage is higher

so the 10x R1 of 75kohm to lower the voltage wil not work.

but is it 10 x 600kohm so 6Mohm or something else?


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

Has anyone figured out how the Elcon charge profiles are changed?

I've heard that it may be possible through a serial interface inside the charger. I've done a little research, but am not getting too far. In case it helps the others this is what I have figured out: 

My charger board is a TCCH1K5W A ver 1.4
It has a 5 pin header for which I assume is for programming profiles. 
It has a NXP 89LPC938FDH uC near the connector, this shares battery pack ground.
As best I can tell working around the potting: 

Pin 1 = VCC 3.3V
Pin 2 = RST pin 6 on uC, 105K to gnd
Pin 3 = Pin 23 on uC, 10K to gnd
Pin 4 = Pin 22 on uC, 15K to gnd
Pin 5 = Gnd.

None of the pins send out data when powered up, and Pins 3 and 4 maintain the approximate resistance to ground (they seem to be inputs when powered up). 

I suspect they may be programming the whole chip through a bootloader, but these are not the pins that NXP uses for that. 

I would buy a number of these chargers if I could adjust them myself, but as it is I'm very hesitant since my pack voltages tend to vary. If anyone has ideas for reprogramming the profiles, I'd love to hear them. In the end, once my BMS is done I may just order them turned all the way up and use the analog or CAN inputs to regulate the finish charge.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Otmar said:


> In case it helps the others this is what I have figured out ...


Thanks for the info, Otmar.



> ... I may just order them turned all the way up and use the analog or CAN inputs to regulate the finish charge.


My understanding is that the CAN versions are very different from the others, and have *no* profiles built into them. You have to provide the instantaneous voltage and current limits yourself. If you like, the CAN versions are "turned all the way up" from the factory.

Until recently, I did not believe that the CAN versions listen to the analog control signal. So we're not planning on using it at all. Something I read recently seemed to contradict that. Anyone know for sure? We have a pair of 410 V CAN version chargers, so I could do some experiments, but exploring the charger internal workings, while interesting, is way down the priority list at present.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Otmar said:


> Has anyone figured out how the Elcon charge profiles are changed?


not familar


> My charger board is a TCCH1K5W A ver 1.4
> It has a 5 pin header for which I assume is for programming profiles.
> It has a NXP 89LPC938FDH uC near the connector, this shares battery pack ground.
> As best I can tell working around the potting:
> ...


this is known as JTAG and is used to program the code to run the micro. unless you have the ability to compile the code do not use these.


> I would buy a number of these chargers if I could adjust them myself, but as it is I'm very hesitant since my pack voltages tend to vary. If anyone has ideas for reprogramming the profiles, I'd love to hear them. In the end, once my BMS is done I may just order them turned all the way up and use the analog or CAN inputs to regulate the finish charge.


I am not sure of the Can messages, I would need to see the stream an reverse engineer it base on what I know. here is what I use CanCharger spec


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

bjfreeman said:


> this is known as JTAG and is used to program the code to run the micro. unless you have the ability to compile the code do not use these.


If that is a JTAG port, then that's what we'd like to understand, it seems to me. It's an 80C51 compatible processor, so if we could get to the code, it could be readily disassembled.

But looking at the datasheet for the processor, I'd say it could also be an SPI, I^2C, or serial (RS232/485) port. The datasheet mentions:

• Internal fixed boot ROM, containing low-level IAP routines available to user code.
• Default loader providing In-System Programming via the serial port, located in upper end of user program memory.

The flash memory (8kB) seems to be byte programmable; that's almost certainly where the charger parameters ("curves") will be stored. If the flash can be manipulated from the serial port, then it makes sense to use the serial port to change the "curves". JTAG is not mentioned in the data sheet I found:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/123811/PHILIPS/P89LPC938FDH.html

So the first thing might be to determine where the two lines that are not power or reset connect to on the processor. That will determine what sort of port it is.

But after that... who knows. Each 1kB sector of the flash memory has a "security bit", which will probably mean we can't read the contents, only write to it. Writing blind into 8 kB of memory isn't going to work.



> I am not sure of the Can messages, I would need to see the stream an reverse engineer it base on what I know. here is what I use CanCharger spec


The CAN messages are extremely simple; they are documented here as well as on the TCCharger site:

http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/controller_can_specs.php#ElCon_messages

They just set the maximum voltage and current, and allow the charger to be turned off. That's it. The CAN version of the charger doesn't have any algorithms/curves; you have to send it CAN messages to set the voltage and current.

Actually, since this chip has a UART and is close to the 7-pin connector where the "CAN port" is connected, and the "CAN port" is just 2400 bps RS232, the UART is likely used to talk to the CAN interface box.

So I'm thinking that the most likely candidates for programming the parameters would be SPI and I^2C; the former is far more likely.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> If that is a JTAG port, then that's what we'd like to understand, it seems to me. It's an 80C51 compatible processor, so if we could get to the code, it could be readily disassembled.


Jtag is more a protocol the is implemented with a serial port and the reset. the device that connected to the JTAG hits the reset to enter into boot loader mode then send data to the CPU.
do those pages represent the CPU you have?
if so they show how to upload an download Files which I assume is the code. So you can reverse engine what pins are being used
they even show how to program
http://liionbms.com/php/teaclipper.php
this follows most avr an arm open source IDE systems like Ardiuno, Maple. The difference is the target micro.
There is a DFU utility that you can upload an download to CPU using the USB port.



> But looking at the datasheet for the processor, I'd say it could also be an SPI, I^2C, or serial (RS232/485) port. The datasheet mentions:
> 
> • Internal fixed boot ROM, containing low-level IAP routines available to user code.
> • Default loader providing In-System Programming via the serial port, located in upper end of user program memory.
> ...


think that is doing it the hardway.


> The CAN messages are extremely simple; they are documented here as well as on the TCCharger site:
> 
> http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/controller_can_specs.php#ElCon_messages
> 
> ...


Basically the CAN is a Serial port that is then interfaced through a CAN chip then through a Can hardware intface to the CAN Bus. The Can chip formats the the stream.
so if you read the Serial port going into the Can bus chip you will see the stream that sets up he CAN chip

Thanks for the links will add this to my bridge node for Chargers.

I noticed that is says that it hangs if CAN is used. I believe this is more to the terminaltion of the CANBus network but could be from the CPU not being able to handle the CAN Chip interface.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

found this that should help in understanding the memory layout,
http://lithiumate.elithion.com/xls/eeprom_data.xls


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

I am happy to see that the data on the Elithion website is so useful to your work.
Glad to be of help!
Davide


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Otmar said:


> Has anyone figured out how the Elcon charge profiles are changed?


Follow this link, scroll down, it tells how to select another curve that has already been programmed in:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/charger_elcon_pfc3000.pdf
(link now fixed)

When you power on the charger it blinks several times to tell you which curve it is using.

I am having an issue where the charger works fine on short trips but if we drain the cells down quite a bit and try to do a fill-up then it flashes an error that we must have over-filled the batt or be using the wrong curve. I think this must be because we are filling 260ah batts which are bigger than most (they are certainly not full when the code happens). If it is unplugged and replugged then it fills them all the way up perfect (109.5v). 

Currently the charger is on curve #3 (3 blinks) any hints whether I should go towards 2 or towards 4?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

ruckus said:


> Follow this link, scroll down, it tells how to select another curve that has already been programmed in:


My understanding is that Otmar wanted to know how to program in other curves, or the same curve with different limits (e.g. after adding or removing 1 or 2 cells).


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

ruckus said:


> Follow this link, scroll down, it tells how to select another curve that has already been programmed in:
> http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/charger_elcon_pfc3000.pdf
> (link now fixed)
> 
> ...


if your draining the pack below he 80% curve no profile will accommodate that.
that is one of the reason for a BMS.
did you put in your battery profile?
did you change the timeout?


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

bjfreeman said:


> if your draining the pack below he 80% curve no profile will accommodate that.
> that is one of the reason for a BMS.
> did you put in your battery profile?
> did you change the timeout?


Not draining that much, have a bms. I am saying 2 hr charge, no problem. 6 hour charge, problem. Not sure how far it gets, but suspect about 4hrs.
Did not put in a bat profile or change the timeout. Just the name timeout makes me think that is likely the problem. I will read your info linked above and then ask dumb questions...

It charges to the correct voltage, but does not seem to know we are using rather large batts (260ah).

Got the charger from Kois/Morrison, so who knows...


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

bjfreeman said:


> here is how to do charger profiles
> http://www.orionbms.com/charger-integration/interfacing-elcon/
> Tte profile is a text XML file. you an open it in notepad or any text editor.


Err, that seems to be a file that is processed by the Orion BMS, which sets the curve for use with an Elcon/TC charger with the Can bus option. So these would appear to have nothing to do with the curves stored inside the non-Can bus models, which I assume are the more common variety, and are the subject of this thread.

Or an I missing something?


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Ok, here is an "example" of possible loaded charge curves for a particular elcon.

http://www.evsource.com/datasheets/3kw Charger/Elcon 3kW Charging curves.pdf

You can see that both voltage and amp rate can be adjusted by selecting a different curve. HOWEVER, there is no way to tell what you have in your charger (that I know of), so it is a bit of a crap shoot. 

I thought the elcon dealer in the U.S. could reprogram your desired curves so you would know what you have...


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

ruckus said:


> Not draining that much, have a bms. I am saying 2 hr charge, no problem. 6 hour charge, problem. Not sure how far it gets, but suspect about 4hrs.
> Did not put in a bat profile or change the timeout. Just the name timeout makes me think that is likely the problem. I will read your info linked above and then ask dumb questions...
> 
> It charges to the correct voltage, but does not seem to know we are using rather large batts (260ah).
> ...


I am guessing on the algorithm, but the one I use for my charger, is based on a 3C 1C curve. the basics is that based on the charge current it will take so long to charge a specific AH pack. the charger is only only charging for a 220AH pack (profile #5)
you would have to have the charger reprogrammed for 260AH.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> Err, that seems to be a file that is processed by the Orion BMS, which sets the curve for use with an Elcon/TC charger with the Can bus option. So these would appear to have nothing to do with the curves stored inside the non-Can bus models, which I assume are the more common variety, and are the subject of this thread.
> 
> Or an I missing something?


No I missed something, thought it was showing how to configure the charger.
I will pull the post so others don't get confused.
thanks.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

bjfreeman said:


> ... the charger is only only charging for a 220AH pack (profile #5)
> you would have to have the charger reprogrammed for 260AH.


My understanding is that you can get any algorithm programmed for (pretty much) any Ah rating.

I'm 99% sure that the Ah parameter in the charger is only used to set the cutoff (charger shutdown) current. So if you are programmed for 220 Ah, there is probably no need to change it to 260 Ah; it will stop when the charge current has reduced (for a certain amount of time, I think) to 220/20 = 11 A instead of 260/20 = 13 A. (Assuming the charger shuts off when the current reduces to 0.05C = C/20).

Of course, if the charger can't even reach 11 A, then you do have a problem. But I don't think they would configure it to cut off at 11 A if it can't produce 11 A.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> My understanding is that you can get any algorithm programmed for (pretty much) any Ah rating.
> 
> I'm 99% sure that the Ah parameter in the charger is only used to set the cutoff (charger shutdown) current. So if you are programmed for 220 Ah, there is probably no need to change it to 260 Ah; it will stop when the charge current has reduced (for a certain amount of time, I think) to 220/20 = 11 A instead of 260/20 = 13 A. (Assuming the charger shuts off when the current reduces to 0.05C = C/20).
> 
> Of course, if the charger can't even reach 11 A, then you do have a problem. But I don't think they would configure it to cut off at 11 A if it can't produce 11 A.


I can't say for certain, what other chargers do, It is based on you should not over charge a pack and that most chargers, don't charge at 1C or higher.
so if you calculate what time it takes to charge the pack at the AH set, it will shut down before a full charge is done if a AH is higher than the profile.
Since full charge is reached after the 80% charging curve. that is the critical monitoring for 0.05C, which is usually at 3.5volts per cell. Now if you doing monitoring of a pack and have a weak/low SOC cell, then the other cells will over charge, without a BMS.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

ruckus said:


> I am having an issue where the charger works fine on short trips but if we drain the cells down quite a bit and try to do a fill-up then it flashes an error that we must have over-filled the batt or be using the wrong curve. I think this must be because we are filling 260ah batts which are bigger than most (they are certainly not full when the code happens). If it is unplugged and replugged then it fills them all the way up perfect (109.5v).
> 
> 
> Not draining that much, have a bms. I am saying 2 hr charge, no problem. 6 hour charge, problem. Not sure how far it gets, but suspect about 4hrs.
> ...


without a firm number on SOC before charge it is hard to come up with any thing.
for instance you can drive frugal an use less that if you putting it to the floor, so to speak.
I would say the Error is from not reaching above the 3.5 volts per cell and having a current above 0.05C.
when you unplug the charger you wipe the charging history and it starts over. Then the BMS takes over to cut the charging when it should.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

bjfreeman said:


> without a firm number on SOC before charge it is hard to come up with any thing.
> for instance you can drive frugal an use less that if you putting it to the floor, so to speak.
> I would say the Error is from not reaching above the 3.5 volts per cell and having a current above 0.05C.
> when you unplug the charger you wipe the charging history and it starts over. Then the BMS takes over to cut the charging when it should.


Unplugging the charger does clear the error code, but when it resumes the bms does not take over. Each cell has a shunt which prevents cell damage and the charger always shuts off at the correct time, so we do not have the bms pulling the plug on the charger.

I believe the charger is expecting the voltage to come up faster than it does so it "times out". 

I spoke with Elcon of CA and they can reprogram with about a week of turnaround. But they wanted me to supply the charge curve. I thought the charge curve on 3.2v lifePo4 cells was a pretty standard thing?

Will try "shooting in the dark" by changing to another pre-programmed curve first. 

Still no word on DIY programming the charger or a way to find out what is programmed?


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

if you can get some charts like http://roadwarrior.free-man.com/hev/GBS_Charging_Discharging_Curves.pdf

from your supplier or manufacture then tell them the configuration, they should be able to figure the rest out.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Greg McCrea at Zivan can program/reprogram any/all charge curves. 

http://www.zivanusa.com/

If your charger has never been re-programmed, it is possible (by it's SN) to get the original curve set that was loaded into it. Greg should be able to do this. If not, the factory in China can. I have the guys email address, I can look it up if someone needs it. He's pretty helpful. There is/was a chap posting on here who seemed to be a rep/employee or very knowledgeable fellow also.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Otmar said:


> In case it helps the others this is what I have figured out:
> 
> My charger board is a TCCH1K5W A ver 1.4
> It has a 5 pin header for which I assume is for programming profiles.
> ...


I was about to post this information, but I see you've done it already. I have an image I may as well use.

The processor seems to usually have a "P" in front of it, so P89LPC938 series, or P89LPC938FDH for the TSSOP package the chargers use. My photo doesn't show the "P". The data manual and user manual mention two ways of programming, In-Circuit serial Programming (ICP), and In-System Programming (ISP). The latter uses TXD and RXD in addition to power, ground, and reset. But ICP uses P0.5 and P0.4, which happen to be pins 22 and 23 of the TSSOP version. They seem to imply that there are some industry standard programmers that use this system. I haven't had time to look, but I didn't see much more detail than that. It may be necessary to use "ISP entry mode" where you pulse reset exactly three times within certain constraints and it allows you to do things like specify the upper half of a reset vector.

Edit: oops, forgot to mention, the datasheet and user manuals are readily available, e.g. from this page: http://www.keil.com/dd/chip/3852.htm .


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

NXP's ICP for the 89LCP9XX also uses RST(NOT) which is also one of those pins.
It would appear that the reprogramming is done via ICP since they are the exact 5 pins used for ICP according to the user manual.

You mention an image. Any chance that it is a "firmware image" or were you referring to the picture?
The programmers are cheap and readily available, but the firmware is another story.

You have posted other useful info regarding serial data into and out of the charger.
It was quite helpful and I Thank You for that!


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*Re: Elcon charger*

The P is for Philips, and it is based upon the MCS-51 instruction set of the Intel 8051/8751 ucontroller. The Bosch Motronic units from back in the mid-'80s used this and i have a program to cross-disassemble the hex code if you can get it to spit out. 

Maybe time to start a new thread focused on the internal hardware reversing effort, once it has been done then the parameter adjustment could likely be done thru the serial port in the connector on the box.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Weisheimer said:


> You mention an image. Any chance that it is a "firmware image" or were you referring to the picture?


No, sorry, I meant the photo.

I haven't checked, but I assume that the security bits would be set such that we can't read the code firmware.

However, it may be that they don't lock the "curve" or "algorithm" data; the data that sets the various voltage and current limits, at least in non-CAN versions. This data may not be heavily encoded; I would expect something like 8.8 format (Q8 in TI terminology) format, directly in volts and amperes. So this could be trivial to reverse engineer. That's most of what we need, I think.

So it may be possible to download just that part of the flash memory; the manuals seem to imply that this is possible. So the first thing would be to get hold of a commercial programmer and see which 1K blocks and/or 64 byte pages can be read, and read those. Maybe a programmer could be gotten cheaply from Ebay or similar.

If all is locked, then it's a lot harder. We could guess where the algorithm area might be (e.g. last 1K except for the boot ROM at 1E00) or the 1K before that (1800). Then start poking values in there and see what happens. But this is really shooting in the dark.

These chips are like US$3 each. Maybe one solution is to solder a new chip on top of the first, shorting pins 6 and 7 (reset and ground) on the one below. I assume that this will leave all its pins in tristate (high impedance). Or of course just desolder the old chip and solder a new one in place. But then we'd have to figure out a complete firmware from scratch, and find out what all the important pins are connected to. Also a huge job. I vaguely remember someone describing some project where the micro was replaced with a daughter board with a different processor altogether. If that was an Elcon / TC charger, then most of the work may be done already.


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## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

Now this is something i could maybe partisipate in.
I have a 1,5kw TCCH chargers that was bought straight from factory.
They programmed it in a way that is not working for me. 
See thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/warning-problems-tcch-charger-88661.html

And TCCH has now totally ignored me for while.
Seems I'm on my own in trying to reprogram it.

I would like to contribute.
I also have some disassembler for 8051 installed at home have not used it much though. If the warranty is as good as their customer support then I cannot expect to get anything from them. So I can just open the thing and investigate it.

REgards
/Per


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

based on what the user guides hints at, no disassembly required. serial port on side is programming access, hold RST to (grnd?) {didn't notice the required 3 flashes} and acess the flash addresses or high eeprom in a row column manner. Apparently this chip can be modified by just about anything with a 48 pin programmer. User manual gave me headache because it has been 35 years since i wrote assembler.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

I don't know anything about a 48 pin programmer, but an example of a USB ICP programmer for this processor is:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/USB-ICP-LPC9XX/622-1002-ND/1010439

US$69.00 so it is affordable...

I have no experience with this processor or it's programming, I have only read the users manual.
But it might still be interesting to explore.

In the US, it is a simple matter to have these programmed and even changed to CAN control with a selected ending high voltage within the range of the particular model.
It took 10 days to ship a charger from Ohio to California and back using ground shipping. The shipping was about US$50 total.
Elcon re-programmed it in one day. It was about US$50 for their program charge.
There is also a charge of $85.00 if you need a CAN adapter.
It was fast and affordable and I would recommend them for that service.
But not all users live here and others don't want to wait 10 days.

There are some more issues to be considered.
There are a lot of different program versions along with different hardware versions.
There is also the issue of multiple modules in the chargers, and each module has it's own processor and sensing circuits for voltage and current.
As an example, the 3Kw charger is two of the 1.5Kw chargers essentially connected in parallel.
One module acts as the "master" and is connected to the round connector near the DC output.
The other seems to be a "slave" module and takes it commands from the master via serial data.
Those 2 modules probably have different firmware.
I say that because I have tried to command the master using the serial data stream that it sends to the slave.
It ignores it, but the slave module can be controlled by the serial data stream.

So, there is a more to learn...


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

pm_dawn said:


> I have a 1,5kw TCCH chargers that was bought straight from factory.
> They programmed it in a way that is not working for me.
> See thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/warning-problems-tcch-charger-88661.html
> 
> ...



too bad your local tech/distributors are not giving you good service. The Elcon guys in Sacramento, CA-US have done a great job reprogramming to spec for me on several occasions. Might be worth the extra shipping. curve 613 allows them to leave user-clickable adjustments in 3.2v increments to your specified end-of-charge voltage, and curve 620v enables 1 volts clickable fine-tuning.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Weisheimer said:


> Those 2 modules probably have different firmware. ...
> So, there is a more to learn...


Interesting. I believe that what we want to do is not to update the firmware at all, just leave it alone and only change the "algorithm" block or page. I don't even know if that's how the software is organised, it's just a guess.

There is also this evaluation board:

http://www.keil.com/mcb900/picture.asp

Note the link to a schematic. From that, you might be able to implement your own programmer, minimising the cost if it doesn't work out. Though it may cost more in time, trying to get it working. I suspect tha the Keil programmer uses the TXD/RXD programming method, which would not work with the charger. It's not even clear to me that the FDI programmer works; they don't seem to tell you what pins on the processor are their PDA and PCL (presumably Programming DAta and Programming CLock).


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

I agree with Dan Baker, if you can get it to Elcon in Sacramento, that is your best bet.
I'd contact them prior to sending it and come to an agreement as to what exactly you want, and that they can do that with your exact model.
I wanted to convert a 144 volt charger that had a 521av profile to a CAN controlled charger with the ability to charge to 182 volts.
They did that for the base programming charge and I did not need a CAN module, so that was the only cost.
It may have been only a firmware change, as they completed it and had it shipping out in 1 day. Super service in my book!
Now I can control it via the CAN / Serial interface and charge at whatever voltage I want so long as it is below 182 volts.

But I do know that several other owners have had other problems with TCCH/Elcon/Chennic chargers (they are all the same beast) and were not able to have them repaired.
One of them had a blown processor and was told that it was not an option to have that replaced at the repair center.
It was a fairly new charger and 4Kw at that, so if a firmware load was possible, it would be possible to repair his charger.
That is the situation that sparked my interest, and I would really like to see him made whole with a working charger for his investment.

So, I think that I will do as Coulomb suggests. 
I'll get an evaluation board and the FDI programmer and play with that first.

I really don't want to brick a charger with my experimentation and I have only a small hope of success.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Be aware when probing around on the control board--there is an isolated low voltage supply in these thangs that is stepped down to create the Vcc. It does not have the same reference as the chassis ground so mind your probes and scope grounds...


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

My 1.5kW unit suddenly wont engage anymore when connected to a pack.
Just red / green led flash.
Can this be fixed ?

Dan


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> My 1.5kW unit suddenly wont engage anymore when connected to a pack.
> Just red / green led flash.
> Can this be fixed ?
> 
> Dan


That is the symptom of a blown DC output fuse.
It can be replaced.

(and sorry for hi-jacking your thread)


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

kennybobby said:


> Be aware when probing around on the control board--there is an isolated low voltage supply in these thangs that is stepped down to create the Vcc. It does not have the same reference as the chassis ground so mind your probes and scope grounds...


As Otmar pointed out in post #8, The negative of the 3v3 is tied to the negative of THE TRACTION PACK!
Thus, it is not exactly "isolated"...
The CHARGER is isolated from the AC input mains.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Weisheimer said:


> That is the symptom of a blown DC output fuse.
> It can be replaced.


Just spent 10 minutes looking for a DC output fuse and couldnt find anything.
Any clues ?
Dan


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

It's soldered near (+) terminal for output cable, in vertical position, heat-shrinked with axial leads.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

It is almost directly behind the round connector on the end of the charger.
It is mounted to the main power board.
There are 2 versions of fuses, depending on age.
One is a round glass fuse with wire leads and it is usually covered in black heat shrink.
The other version is like a plastic automotive fuse. 
Perhaps blue in color and has the amperage rating printed on top.
You should see a 2 terminal screw connector that the DC battery wires attach to, the fuse will be between that terminal and the logic board.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

I had a suspicion it would be that heatshrunk thing but problem is the fuse checks out ok.
In the pic I traced the circuit with blue and the ohm meter shows continuity thru the fuse and all the way from the soldered patch at the right side base of the fuse all the way to the DC Pos cable screw head


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

What about the micro switch on the outside of the side PCB
it has a small led under it which is flashing red.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

My suspicion is that the charger does not see the battery or that it does not think that the battery has enough voltage for it to begin charging.
What is your normal battery voltage and what do you measure on those screw terminals?
Any chance that one of the screw terminals is loose?
Any chance that your voltage mod has had a resistor connection that came loose or a resistor that was physically stressed and thus it broke in half?
The LED under the switch is the one that is used to "set" the charge curve number if yours is configurable.
Which charge curve is in your charger programmed to?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Battery voltage was within spec, (24s3p) A123 pouches at about 75v.
screws are tight, I might try to replace the trim pot as it was a bit scalded by the soldering iron. It worked ok when it was put in.

Dont know what curves it had but the fact that the micro switch led is flashing is a bother.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

This thing is wierd
I just unsoldered the trim pot and connected the charger to a LiFePO4 battery with 69v in it (24s) and the charger actually switch on for about 10 seconds and switched off. The indicator light was flashing red only at 3 seconds, I checked the cell logs and saw the voltage rising so it was charging.

Next question is how do I use the charge curve button to cycle through the curves. ?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Even weirder 
Its working now, pumping out 16 amps.
I just left it switched on and after about 20 minutes it engaged.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

That certainly is odd...

But I am glad to see that it is at least working, even if intermittent.
Perhaps you'll continue to see that intermittent operation and if so, you might check the voltages at:

Main board R10, each side of the pair.
Logic board, bottom right corner, both sides of R8 and R9.

That is the divider ladder for reading the pack voltage. 
That voltage (after being divided by the resistors) is read by AD04 (pin 4) on the microcontroller.
The readings will be proportionally higher when charging, but you can interpolate that out.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> I just left it switched on and after about 20 minutes it engaged.


Did it take the full 20 minutes to turn on, or did you only notice it about 20 minutes after switching on?

We had an issue like that with our CAN 2.5 kW model. It was something we were doing wrong; sorry I can't remember the details right now. There is some ~60 second timeout, not documented I think. Maybe it only checks to see if the battery has "come good" every 60 seconds. Or maybe after it sees a low pack voltage (I think we didn't pull in some battery contactors), it might insist on seeing a "good" voltage for at least about 60 seconds before it believes it is really good.

[ Edit: it may have been more like 5-10 minutes. Seems we didn't send CAN command packets *to it* in time, and it gets into a sort of "snit" where it leaves the "do everything" LED solid red (not documented anywhere that I can see). During this time, it sends no CAN status packets back, and is not charging. It seems to time out of this snit after the 5-10 minutes, and starts sending CAN status packets, and our software responded and it all started charging. I think we send CAN packets to it for a bit longer before giving up, and that's what fixed our very slow start problem. It sounds like yours must be different, unless that same thing is somehow happening internally. But then I'd expect to see the same solid red LED. ]

As others have mentioned, if it decides the pack is OK but very low in SOC, it may charge at a greatly reduced rate (half current or possibly much less) until the voltage reaches some threshold. So maybe it was working but at such a low current you believed it was off (or maybe the LEDs indicated that it was off), until the voltage crossed some threshold for a certain length of time.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

I've seen the CAN version do something like a one minute pause.
They shut down after 5 seconds of not seeing CAN (or serial in Coloumbs case) and then will restart if a command for higher end voltage is specified.
I have also seen them pause for a minute as if to re-evaluate all of the current versus requested parameters being met.

Ripperton, you asked about selecting the charge curve in an earlier post.
That red led under the pushbutton on the logic board will blink a certain number of times after power on.
Count the number of flashes (when it is operating normally) and that is the particular number of cells within the charge profile that it will be using.
As an example. If it is programmed with a profile that covers the LifePo4 range of 40 to 50 cells, when it flashes 5 times, it is programmed for 45 cells.
Do you know anything about which profile is programmed and also the number of cells?

The way to change the selection is to hold down that pushbutton and turn on the charger.
Then leave it pushed down until it flashes the number of times that you want and let up on the button at that point.
As an example, it were flashes 5 times after power up (not pushing any buttons here yet).
You want it to charge to a higher voltage, so you turn it off, and then press the button and hold it while powering the charger on.
You keep the button pressed until it flashes 6 times.
Now it will charge to the next parameter on the curve.
Trouble is, it is best to KNOW which curve it is programmed for.
There are quite a number of algorithms and then different voltage levels on many of those to boot.
Look for a label that says 500, 300, or something like that.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Even weirder than weird
The charger kept going until 80.1v and cut out, so I disconnected it and the next morning I reconnected it for a top up and it kept going to 81.5v.
Without the trim pot it never went that high.
I shut it off when I saw some of the cells peaking on the Cell Log.

Weisheimer I tried counting the number of flashes on bootup and it went on indefinitely, up to 60..

Coulomb I Just wandered past the charger after 20 mins and it was running.
Does sound like a timeout thing.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

I just went back and read your first post...
You mentioned that it was programmed to a custom curve.
Thus, it may be programmed to a single curve, and the blinking red led might be a diagnostic indication of some sort.
The blink rate also has a meaning.
The chargers that have the option to set to a different curve will blink once per second until they count out to the parameter number of 1 through 10.
That yours continues blinking makes me think that it is some other diagnostic message.
What is the blink rate, once per second, three times per second, or ?

So back to the custom curve and profile.
Do you recall what your different V1, V2 and I1 and etc were when it was programmed at the factory.
They also set a "timeout" which is how long it will charge for before it shuts down if none of the Voltage or Current parameters have been fulfilled.
Common timeout values are 30 hours or 2 hours. Do you recall what yours was set at?

I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to think that yours has just gone bonkers! 

I'm wondering if it has a thermal flaw in one of the components since it seems to be related to how long it is powered on and such.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

It was a custom order but it didnt have multiple curves.
I think its just gone nuts.....


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## PIFOUBMW (Dec 19, 2013)

*Re: Elcon charger voltage adjust ==> TCCH-H292-21.6*

Hello from France,

I have the same problem, I ordered a 6KW TCCharger TCCH-H292-21.6 then 292V max (80cells) at 21.6A but I have 70cells A123 to charge then I only need 255.5V, i asked to have a 255.5V programming but the Charger was sent without be configured then my PRIUS II PHEV is charging up to 292V once then TOO HIGH !

Now I stay 2 hours every charge near it with voltmeter and ampermeter to manually reduce amperage and stop the charger when it reaches the good value.

My TCCharger has a label : 240-7 * 3 HD VER 1.7 then it seems to be buit with 3 chargers 240V/292V 7AMPS

I read all the thread but I don't know how to adjust my voltage, can someone help me ?

PIFOUBMW


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Check this original info from Ian Bruinsma: link


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## PIFOUBMW (Dec 19, 2013)

thanks for the link, I already found it but I was looking for a numeric solution instead of soldering actions.

I think that there is no other choice


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

I asked this question once before and couldnt find an answer.

Is there some way of testing the voltage on this charger by using a properly sized capacitor and charging it with a resistor connected to slow things down a bit, so if one was the adjust voltage to find the end point, without using the battery pack.

I know in theory this should be possible, otherwise how would the factory test a charger if it came in for repair or adjustment.

Another words a dummy load for a charger.

Roy


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

As I see it: the Elcon is looking for a voltage to see if something is connected and won't start the charge process unless the voltage applied is within range of whatever the MFG thinks is probable. Ie: on my 192 nominal pack if the pack is discharged below say 159 I get an error message of red green flashes


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

PIFOUBMW,

Did you purchase the charger directly from TCCH?
If so, contact them to see if they will provide you with a "re-programming board" that will load a new profile into your charger.
They have recently sent them to other TCCH charger owners to allow them to reprogram the charger to a new profile.
You must be very clear to them as to what profile you wish to have when you make your request.
If you purchased it from a "dealer" then you may need to work through them to have this resolved.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

*Stuck on the wall when upping voltage *

Refreshing this topic with new problem...

I've two 1,5kW non-CAN units; hardware versions are both 144V 8A, they're factory programmed with one setting only - CV at 189,8V as for 52*3.65Vpc. 

I used Ian's method to lower voltage for charging custom NiMh pack (CV at 171.0V), it worked perfect. Today I changed this mod intending to use chargers with bottom balanced, non-BMS pack of 60 ThunderSky 100Ah cells. I'm guessing CV level should be at 60*3.40Vpc = ~204V (guessing because I need to check weakest cell's charging behaviour to get real value).

Got the resistors/pot connected, started charging with trimmer set in Mohm range so actually factory level at 189,8V stayed unchanged. Within few tenths of V from CV charger started blinkin yellow and current was throttled back - perfect!

Turned trimpot a bit, repeated, again, again in small increments - went good up to *198.0V* and then it's like hitting invisible wall; further tricking with feedback voltage doesn't raise CV point, it's stable at 198 like concrete  

With my pack voltage slowly approaching this point every time I switch the charger on it starts charging at lower and lower current, however status LED blinks red not yellow as usual when in CV mode. This looks to me like Max_PWM limit in software, a kind of overvoltage protection. The reason I think it's software is that this version of hardware is specified by mfg with 203V voltage limit. I may be wrong on it...

One solution is to lower the cell count so it matches available voltage but to give up 1.5kWh when it's already bought -  Another way would be reprogramming at Elcon but I'm in EU so shipping is pain.

Let me know if you see any solution, please...

Mike


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## PIFOUBMW (Dec 19, 2013)

Hello from France,

For my problem, I solved it with soldering 3.2Mohm resistor and 1Mohm variator then I can change from 245 to 254V my voltage, I installed this resistor kit on the 3 chargers 7A Inside the charger 6kw 21A and it stops now at desired voltage 

Thanks for this hardware method cheaper than sending the charger in china or USA for programming 

PIFOUBMW


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

PIFOUBMW, good to hear it works for you 
I'm a bit angry because i need just a few volts more; going from factory 189.8 to 205 is still within reasonable (at least for me...) 10% of tweaking.


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## PIFOUBMW (Dec 19, 2013)

On my charger I wanted to reduce the voltage then It was easy but I can only charge up to 21.6A as programmed then for me It's just like a 5KW charger

I you grow up the voltage, you should reduce the current too with the 3 wire command or you will ask to much to the charger and It could break down I think.


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## birol (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi,


I have a problem with ELCON PFC3000 Charger TCCH-48-50 about current control. In the document elcon sent me when using <1.5V on enable pin charger will enter the stop mode. If the voltage rises 2V charger will enter the working mode and 2-5V on enable pin corresponds linearly to output current 0% to %100.


But in the test, when voltage rises above 5V on enable pin, charger gives the maximum output current 50A. When voltage is reduced 3.5V, output current is 0A. I can not control the output current between 2 to 5V on enable linearly.


Also in the document it shows the enable is the pin 1 black cable. But pin numbers and cable colors do not match in the connector. I think black cable is ground, green cable is the enable input and the red cable is 12V. Am i right?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

My 144v 8A Elcon charger is able to charge 41 to 50 lifepo4 cells (10 adjustments with end of charge from 149,7v to 182,5v). Let say 46 cell for adjustment (147v nominal, 168v end of charge).
Now I need to charge up to 198v (48 x 4,125v) or at least around/over that value.

First question: Is it possible with my charger?

Second: Base on 46 cell with my current unmodified charger, I would need to add a resistor with a value around 28-32k. Right? (sanitary check!)

Thanks


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Yabert,
I have the same hardware version of charger but programmed for 52 cells; resistor mod seems to reach its limit at 198.0V so there're chances for you to get what's expected. 
I used combination of 10k resistor in series with 50k multi-turn pot to stay in "safe area" of added resistance. Start from highest pot setting and change 2-3 turns at a time; once you notice change in CV voltage you're there


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Z

Another question: what will be the influence of the temperature on the output voltage of the charger after modification? Considering the potentiometer inside the charger, the temperature can vary from -30°C to 80°C in my case.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Still tracing the circuits and have a draft of the schematic for the digital control board--hopefully we will figure out how to change the voltage settings without using a soldering iron and pots. 

There are two voltage dividers that feed into the processor for reading the voltage on both sides of the output relay--one is battery pack voltage and the other is the dc boost voltage created by the charger. The voltage ratio of the divider is on the order of 120:1 in my unit--so if the boost voltage is 240, then the micro sees 2 volts. 

We have been able to verify that the black 5-pin connector is wired to the processor to allow In-Circuit Programming (ICP)--[power, ground, reset, P0.4,P0.5]. It may also be possible to re-program thru the serial port of the 7-pin connector but haven't gotten that fully traced out yet.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

kennybobby said:


> ...
> We have been able to verify that the black 5-pin connector is wired to the processor to allow In-Circuit Programming (ICP)--[power, ground, reset, P0.4,P0.5]. It may also be possible to re-program thru the serial port of the 7-pin connector but haven't gotten that fully traced out yet.


Yes, it is programmed via ICP.
I bought a LCP-ICP and replaced the end connector with a 5 pin .100 header.
I can read the CRC values and verify the processor type and etc using FlashMagicTool.
The security bits are NOT set.
I found a forum posting at the following link that discussed doing a dump of the flash data.

http://forum.flashmagictool.com/index.php?topic=3711.msg5200#msg5200

It requires that the NXP boot-loader be loaded into the processor, and it does not appear to be there in these chargers.
It would probably be possible to load that in the first 1K block (they can be programmed in 1K blocks) but I have not done that yet as I have only one charger and don't want to brick it (yet...)
If I understand correctly, you have a stack of these things with blown power electronics.
Perhaps you would be in a better position to do such a thing.

PM me if you would like to discuss this on a phone call or etc.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*An update on reading the firmware and the serial port output*

Thanks Mark, that was a great tip to finding out how the programmer operates. 

From there i was able to find the ISP-to-ICP hex code, then used an 8051 disassembler program to get the source code into an assembly language listing to which i am adding human-readable comments to explain the logic and subroutine calls, etc. i should be able to post this txt file soon. 

On the hardware side, Paul has found that the serial port is sending a 15-byte message (status?) every second. The first 5 bytes seem to be a header that doesn't change. The 6th byte looks like it may contain an enable-indicator (off/on) bit. During charging, bytes 7 and 8 form a 16-bit voltage reading in 0.01V. e.g. in hex, 3E 99 translates to a decimal value of 16025. (cV), or 160.25 V


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## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

Was that data sent by a fixed voltage charger or one with can-bus control?

There is a protocol specification floating around here some where that could help. Probably what you are seeing is the CAN-control messages that the charger uses in CAN-mode.

If that is so. Then maybe it is possible to CAN-control or Serial-control a fixed voltage version of the charger aswell.

I know Jack Rickard mentioned that the serial port is a bit sensitive.
He also mentioned that someone had already found out that on the CAN-version there is really only a Voltage level converter that converts between the Serial-port and the CAN-output. So actually the CAN step could be removed. So a normal Serialport on like an Arduino could communicate directly with the Serialport on the charger.

I'll see if I can dig out that protocol Spec.

REgards
/Per


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## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

Here comes the CAN protocol Spec.

/Per


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: An update on reading the firmware and the serial port output*



kennybobby said:


> From there i was able to find the ISP-to-ICP hex code, then used an 8051 disassembler program to get the source code into an assembly language listing to which i am adding human-readable comments to explain the logic and subroutine calls, etc.


Excellent!



> On the hardware side, Paul has found that the serial port is sending a 15-byte message (status?) every second. The first 5 bytes seem to be a header that doesn't change. The 6th byte looks like it may contain an enable-indicator (off/on) bit. During charging, bytes 7 and 8 form a 16-bit voltage reading in mV. e.g. in hex, 3E 99 translates to a decimal value of 16025. (mV), or 160.25 V


What you are describing there are centivolts (hundredths of a volt), not millivolts (thousandths of a volt). Years ago I found 12 bytes at the serial port, with the 5th and 6th (not 7th and 8th) being the current (not voltage) in tenths (not hundredths) of an amp (not volt). Maybe we are talking about different communications. Also, ours is a high voltage charger (over 400 V maximum), so that would be more than you can specify in hundredths of a volt in a signed 16-bit integer.

Some details here: http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=980&PID=27009&title=weber-and-coulombs-mx5#27009

Edit: the 12 bytes were simply the 4 bytes of the extended CAN identifier, followed by the 8 bytes of the data field. It follows the format in the PDF posted above by pm_dawn.


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

That is interesting progress KennyBobby!

Kenny and Paul have fixed voltage chargers.
I believe Coulomb uses a CAN enabled charger, and mine is CAN enabled 2.5Kw charger.
I have opined that the serial data stream, in part, contains commands from the master logic board to the slave logic boards. It may only be "begin charging" but it is something as the slaves do not have any other way to know when to start. They don't connect to the "enable" line and such. Not even in CAN controlled versions. They receive their data from the master via a one way opto-isolated serial stream.

I'd like do to a read of the flash in my 18x VDC CAN enabled charger. Can you describe the process?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Start message idle mode not charging (relay open):

FF FE C5 0A 14 00 BC CC CC CD 00 00 00 00 AA

Charging mode enabled (relay closed):

FF FE C5 0A 14 01 3E 8C D9 39 43 31 DE B8 9C

Skip 2 seconds when Charge completed (relay opened):

FF FE C5 0A 14 00 BC CC CC CD 43 29 66 67 C1 

i have only been looking at the fixed voltage non-CAN types, 1.5kw and 3.0kw (dual 1.5). As Mark said the slave board only uses the Rx port and so can't talk back to the master, but the 15 byte message is used in both the single and dual units. 

The processor chip has 8k of flash memory for program code. On blank chips the uppermost 1k comes loaded with boot code to allow for in-circuit programming (aka ICP). In addition it has an upper reserved memory area with an embedded program known as thumb code. For data memory it has 256 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEPROM available for data storage and table-lookup by the program when running. My guess is that the eeprom contains a table of data for the 10 charge curves selectable by the pushbutton switch under the label. Hopefully we will know the answer to this soon. 

Thanks Per for the CAN document, it is an updated version of what we were using for comparison to the serial messages.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Do keep posting and investigating gentlemen. Many of us here are interested in having the voltage setting capability on these chargers. Good work!


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*key to the city...*

we now have it and are going to crack this beast wide open. And no chargers were harmed (bricked) in the making of this project... 

Finally have reached the point of being able to program a blank microcontroller with some code and dump it back out successfully. It seems like that should be a trivial task (write it in, read it out) but it wasn't. 

When it is blank--you can easily talk to the chip; but after the device is programmed, it locks itself from access. In addition the commands necessary to read the contents are not published but were hidden in an internal program stored in a reserved section of memory. 

We had to build some custom interface hardware which may be similar to the reprogramming boards mentioned earlier in this thread--now i understand why such a thing would be necessary due to the limited access into the controller chip. A good working knowledge of the MCS51 assembly language is necessary to understand and figure out how it all works, but i will try to translate into DIY. 

More coming soon, stay tuned to this bat channel for details, kb


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: key to the city...*



kennybobby said:


> A good working knowledge of the MCS51 assembly language is necessary to understand and figure out how it all works, but i will try to translate into DIY.


You've got my attention, KB!

And please, don't spare the details because you think it might be obscure. Some of use eat obscure for breakfast!

Having said that, I need to brush up on MCS51 myself...


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*Re: Elcon charger memory dump*

The p89lpc93x chips all allow several different methods and processes for flash memory programming. These are ISP, ICP, IAP, or a parallel port programmer, etc. ISP uses a full duplex UART serial port with TTL Rx and Tx. ICP uses a simplex serial transfer with one data line to send and receive with a clock line for flow control to shift bits into the port. IAP allows user code to pause the current program and make flash memory code changes from within the code itself, then continue running the application. A parallel programmer is typically used for high volume commercial devices. 

Flashmagic makes software (free download) that can erase and program lots of chips, but it doesn't allow reading of the flash memory contents of a lpc9xx chip. So much for any 'magic' there... 

Once written to, the device is locked and will not allow access via serial port ISP, but will still allow ICP access. A simple serial port terminal window can access all of the memory-read and -write features via ISP...BUT ONLY IF the device is unlocked or forced by hardware into that mode.

To get around all this locked up mess and successfully read a programmed chip we used Flash'Magic' with a USB-to-ICP dongle to re-program the boot vector address and to set the status bit to allow it back into ISP mode. Then we used a simple terminal window on a pc to send ISP commands over the RS232 serial port thru a transceiver chip (e.g max232) to make the correct voltage levels for the Rx and Tx on the lpc9xx chip (they will be accessed thru the 7-pin header on the charger control board). In addition we used an Arduino to generate some pulses to force it into ISP mode with the DTR/RTS hardware pulses on the Reset pin. 

Having a little technical difficulties with the chip on the board vs a blank chip with no board...almost there.


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## chaseadam (Mar 20, 2014)

I *believe* I have a few dumped hex firmwares for my TCCH charger with a few different charging curves.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

chaseadam said:


> I *believe* I have a few dumped hex firmwares for my TCCH charger with a few different charging curves.


So you're not sure you've captured them correctly?

Perhaps you could attach one of them so I or others could look at it.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Yeah those files would be interesting to see. i'm still having an issue with the charger not entering ISP mode on the serial port. It does respond when using an ICP dongle and flashmagic to send commands. Here is the IAP Boot Rom hex file and my notated notes of the disassembled source code.


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## chaseadam (Mar 20, 2014)

A vendor has used the USB-ICP-LPC9XX programmer to flash new curves. That implies they are using ICP.


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## chaseadam (Mar 20, 2014)

It appears they use Keil's uVision compiler for 8051.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Great progress! How long do you think before you can construct new curves, etc? What could be done about voltages then? What kind of deviation from original voltage do you think could be reached?


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

You can set to any value that is described in whatever KW model they make. You have to stay within their voltage and wattage range.

If you go up in voltage the amperage goes down, and vice versa.

The only curve you need is constant current to voltage desired (3.6V?) and then constant voltage to whatever cutoff amps, you desire.


Roy


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

This question isn't exact on topic but I'll ask here - can it hurt the charger if I used 170-340V DC instead of mains AC? I'm thinking about direct connection to HV solar battery bank...


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

TCCH chargers can run from 85-265, 45-65 Hz.

Now considering that its converts to dc internally, that could be to 374dc, but I cant confirm that.

Roy


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

So I guess 45-65 Hz kinda excludes DC; i'll read about PFC circuits and try to find it. 
I use Meanwell industrial supply as DC/DC for 12V circuits and it seems to be OK fed with 170V DC (yes, it has PFC front end).


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

i think they should work with DC power but haven't tested it. There is a 30 amp fuse and a relay before the diode rectifier bridge. The polarity will be important since the controller circuitry measures the input voltage and current, and uses that to set the maximum power allowed. The PFC circuit chops the dc thru an inductor to create a max boost voltage of ~385 vdc. Then a PWM chip switches the boost thru an H-bridge into a step down transformer and rectifies that to make the dc for charging the pack.


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## bwjunkie (Jul 31, 2013)

Coulomb said:


> The CAN version of the charger doesn't have any algorithms/curves; you have to send it CAN messages to set the voltage and current.


wow that is sweet, I have Orion BMS, if I change it's profile pack size settings to 36s (115v), then my TCCH-144 Canbus charger, will automatically send the correct voltages for the smaller pack via canbus messages? no reprogramming needed?

josh


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

bwjunkie said:


> wow that is sweet, I have Orion BMS, if I change it's profile pack size settings to 36s (115v), then my TCCH-144 Canbus charger, will automatically send the correct voltages for the smaller pack via canbus messages? no reprogramming needed?


I don't know the details of the Orion BMS, but yes, if it starts sending lower voltage requests, then the CAN based charger will happily comply, with no reprogramming or other changes.

There are limits, of course. If you try to charge a 24 V battery, it won't even start, assuming that the battery is missing or very sick. If you attempt to charge at a higher voltage than the charger is capable of, or even higher than it thinks it is capable of (not 100% sure on that last one yet, I should know this coming week), then it will limit its voltage. As far as I know, there will be no error, no fuss, just the voltage will be limited to a certain value, and won't go above that limit.

In your case, none of these limits apply, so you should have no problem.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Sort of depends..... On a 300V charger I just sold to a customer (CAN version), Elcon said that the total range for the output goes from 37VDC up to 300VDC.... so no you couldn't charge a 24V lithium battery, you could charge a 32V one (10s) up to 3.7V a cell.

Best to check with Elcon, the output is a super wide output. I would see if the 144V could go down lower.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

frodus said:


> On a 300V charger I just sold to a customer (CAN version), Elcon said that the total range for the output goes from 37VDC up to 300VDC....


It would be interesting to verify this.

On an older (2009 or 2010 I think) 417 V model, it would not turn on without about a 201-208 V battery (I can't remember the exact threshold). It would have been handy being able to charge at 37 V (in proportion, that would have been about 51 V).

I note that if the lower limit is 37 V, then you likely can't charge a 10S pack; it would only come on when the battery is already very fully charged. But it could do a 48 V nominal pack, something I'd like to be able to do with my 144 V charger. I never tried it, assuming it would have no chance. I'll try it later; thanks.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Coulomb said:


> If you attempt to charge at a higher voltage than the charger is capable of, or even higher than it thinks it is capable of (not 100% sure on that last one yet, I should know this coming week), then it will limit its voltage.


Indeed, CAN versions do have hardware limits stored in EEPROM like the non-CAN chargers, and do check limits.


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## twright (Aug 20, 2013)

I have an Elcon charger and a CAN based Orion BMS.

The Elcon charger was originally configured to charge 48 Lithium Iron Phosphate cells. I have used it successfully to charge packs of 40 or 44 cells.

The BMS senses the cell voltages and starts lowering the charger voltage (over CAN) when you start getting close to the max voltage.

It works great. The only thing that is weird is that the light on the battery charger that is supposed to change with charge condition doesn't work. It always flashes the same (red) while the charger is on.


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## bwjunkie (Jul 31, 2013)

cool, good info, I'm just happy I can try out 36s and 32s, and be able to charge, without buying anything extra, to see if the power is okay for my daily driving.

-josh


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

It looks like the lower limit on my 144 V lithium CAN enabled model (144-15-2) is around 18 V. So it looks like they lowered the lower limit at some point, or on some models.


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## drdonh (Aug 8, 2008)

I've been scouring this rather long thread in hopes of what I can do to get my ELCON 1500 charger work properly with my new Li pack. After switching from lead acid to a 98V-180 Ahr pack based on leaf battery modules, I had my ELCON reprogrammed to curve 620v, which would allow me to have some selection of the final voltage. 

After spending nearly $200 in shipping, brokerage, and program fees, it seems the 620v algorithm times out after only 2 hours of bulk charging. I have to unplug and reset the charger every two hours to get a complete charge done. It sure would be nice if the algorithm could be tweeked to bump up the time out value. Rather, I am advised by ELCON to buy a bigger charger. For my purposes, charging from a 115V-15A house plug is fine, I can wait.

Don


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*Re: For a rather long thread,*

go read the DIY charger build thread...lol

The microcontroller in the TCCH uses 3.3v-level logic on the serial port. Then it is passed thru a 12V optical isolator stage, still using TTL polarity, out to the 7-pin connector. This is not RS232 voltage levels of a PC serial port, nor the USB port, so some sort of voltage level translator along with current limiting is needed in order to not blow an opto.

Are you in Australia or North America--we might be able to assist in reading out your algorithm to determine why it's doing the 2-hr cutoff.


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## drdonh (Aug 8, 2008)

Hi, 

Actually, reading the DIY charger build thread is next on my list of things to do. However, I'm more interested in driving my conversion right now.

I'm located in Canada. So sending things over the border and back is always more expensive, as it also involves brokerage fees each way. 

I finally got the charger to finish a cycle in the normal way. But it took two resets prior to that. The time out would need to be in the order of 6 hours I would guess.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

drdonh said:


> I've been scouring this rather long thread in hopes of what I can do to get my ELCON 1500 charger work properly with my new Li pack. After switching from lead acid to a 98V-180 Ahr pack based on leaf battery modules, I had my ELCON reprogrammed to curve 620v, which would allow me to have some selection of the final voltage.


Do you have details about the 620v curves? Like the attached.

Do you know how many cells the charger thinks it is charging for your 98 V pack? As far as I know, the Elcon/TC charger expects LiFePO4 chemistry, and Leaf cells are not that chemistry (they have a higher volts per cell).

Do you have details of how the Leaf cells are supposed to be charged? This may not be well known publicly, and may take some digging to get.

It is possible that your charger is overheating and turning itself off due to heat. Does it stop with a red-green flash code? I believe that the over-temperature error code is G R _ _ _ _ _ _ (so green then red for a second each, then six seconds with none). Actually, it may be just G _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Green for a second, then 7 seconds with nothing). If so, you might be able to cool it better somehow.


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## drdonh (Aug 8, 2008)

Hi Coulomb

The curve you attached is the one that is supposed be loaded in my charger. The algorithm assumes 1V/cell. Of the ten settings I can select by holding the hidden button during power up, I can change the number of "cells" from 101 to 111. This is how I can change the cuttoff voltage. Right now, I am targeting 105 V. Per the information I have found, this should charge the cells to 80% SOC. 101.9 V would be 50% SOC. I am doing bottom balancing, with no BMS. 

The charger does R G R _ _ _ _ _ after about 2 hours of running (on the occasion I witnessed, it was exactly 2 hours) . Pretty sure that's the "battery overcharged" error. Or rather, the "V3 voltage(?) was not achieved in the programmed 2 hour limit (S2?)". The charger only gets a bit warm. I have a fan blowing air on the fins. The configuration I have puts three battery modules in parallel, with 13 threesums in a string, so effectively my batteries are 180 Ahr.


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## drdonh (Aug 8, 2008)

I found the chart of the 620v profile, and hopefully is attached here


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

drdonh said:


> The curve you attached is the one that is supposed be loaded in my charger. The algorithm assumes 1V/cell.


Ah. So the "v" in the algorithm name must mean "voltage based" or perhaps "variable"; most are cell based.



> Of the ten settings I can select by holding the hidden button during power up, I can change the number of "cells" from 101 to 111. This is how I can change the cuttoff voltage.


Right. So that gives the customer some flexibility. Alas, it turns out not to be enough flexibility, in your case at least.



> The charger does R G R _ _ _ _ _ after about 2 hours of running (on the occasion I witnessed, it was exactly 2 hours) . Pretty sure that's the "battery overcharged" error. Or rather, the "V3 voltage(?) was not achieved in the programmed 2 hour limit (S2?)".


Right. Every segment (also called a stage or a state) of the curve has a bunch of limits, and one of these is a field called TIME_M_OVER. This seems to be the total amount of time that is allowed to be spent in this stage/segment. If you go over that time, then the charger changes to a different state, set by another field called AH_OR_TIME_OVER_TO_STATE. There is also a limit to the number of amp-hours spent in each state. So "all" that needs to happen is for the time limit to be increased; it seems to be set at 120 minutes [Edit: from your post above, indeed it is], and it sounds like you need at least 480 minutes, possibly 600 minutes. It would be wise to increase the Ah limit as well, though it's often set to a million (effectively no limit). [ Edit: from the curve, the maximum amp-hours are twice what the battery is rated for, so that should not be a problem. ]

It's a real shame that customers, at least the ones that want to, aren't given the option of tweaking details like this, even if they have to buy some hardware to do this, and follow some complex procedures. Hopefully one day we'll get to the stage of being also to do it. It will never be easy, but it should be possible if you have the patience to follow some detailed instructions.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

drdonh said:


> I found the chart of the 620v profile, and hopefully is attached here


Thanks, that's great. It confirms that there is a 2 hour limit for stage 2, which just seems like an error to me. Most other algorithms have limits of 12 hours, even 30 and 50 hours. "Fixing" the problem by telling the customer to buy a bigger charger seems outrageous to me.

PM me if you are willing to try to fix this yourself, and are handy with electronics.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

From what i've read the leaf modules are 2s2p and use nominal 3.8 V 30 A-Hr cells. So nominal your pack is 98.8 V at 180 A-Hr. With your 1.5kW charger max current would be equal or less than 15 A, so it would take at least 12 hours to fill a totally empty pack and 6 hours to provide 90 A-Hr.

The max power of the charger is stored in the EEPROM along with the transformer winding ratio and the max current allowed, and i don't remember if it allows the full 1500 W output at max current, but Coulomb is the high-master supreme potentate of these chargers and knows all the details of how they are programmed to work.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

kennybobby said:


> The max power of the charger is stored in the EEPROM along with the transformer winding ratio and the max current allowed, and i don't remember if it allows the full 1500 W output at max current...


There is a current limit recorded in the EEPROM, and it allows you to get full power at a voltage somewhat higher than nominal charger voltage. So for a 96 V nominal charger, you'll only make 1500 W at something like 110 V (without looking up specific values).

Since drdonh is charging at 120 VAC, he'll be limited by the EEPROM setting AC110V_POWER_MAX, which is typically set at 1100 W for a 1500 W charger. So that would limit current to around 1100/105 = 10.5 A, so a complete charge from 100% DOD (0% SOC) would take over 180/10.5 = 17 hours. So drdonh would want the limit set to some 30 h (1800 minutes; this field uses minute units). A far cry from the 2 hours provided.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

I'd appreciate someone running the math on this, just to see if you come up with similar numbers to mine, I've followed the guide through, but I'm always a bit sketchy when calculating interaction of resistors  

I'm looking at doing the resistor & pot. mod. to my 2Kw TCCH charger at the moment as its now being used for my leaf module upgraded battery pack, it's working just fine with the new cells, but I need to wind up the voltage to get closer to the 4.2v per cell cut off.

Currently it runs up to 146.2v I'd like to be able to increase voltage to between 148v and 160v (The 160v is in case I add another module, 151.2v is max for now).

So, my chargers existing resistor measurements:



So what figures do you get for the resistor and Pot. to give an increase to between 150v & 160v?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards,

Paul


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

favguy said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'd appreciate someone running the math on this


First off, those resistor values can't be right. The ratio is 308.7/8.7 ~= 35.5; the NXP processor reads 2.50 V as full scale. [ Edit: it's a 5 V processor, so it can't read up to 5.1 V, and there are essentially no further reductions from this point to the processor's ADC inputs. ] So this voltage divider can only read up to 35.5 x 2.5 = 88.7 V. You must be off by a factor of about 2x to start with. You really need to unsolder the resistors and measure them out of circuit.

Or you could use the schematics that are on the web ( http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/tcch-elcon-1-5kw-charger-schematics-89470.html ) and decide that the bottom resistors must be 5k1, not 8k7. So then to make a 160/148 change (presuming that the charger is capable of it), which is an 8% change or 4.72k total, so you'd want 1/(1/4.72 - 1/5.1)) = 63.3k. So maybe a 56k resistor in series with a 10k pot, or a 51k resistor in series with a 20k or 22k pot.

Have you checked that your charger is capable of 160 V? Strange things might happen if you cause it to try to output more than it can produce. Unlikely, but possible.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Maybe you'd want more variation, so maybe a 50k pot in series with a 39k resistor, and start with the pot right in the middle.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Thanks for the input, 

I didn't think the resistance figures made much sense, it's not possible for me to measure the resistance out of circuit, so I'm happy to take your advice and base R2 on a value of 5K1.

I seem to recall seeing in a chart that the charger (120v nominal) could be programmed to a maximum of around 160v when it was ordered, but the 160v doesn't matter to me too much, more of a wish list thing, what I really need is adjustability up to and including 151.2v 

I think I'm going to go with a range of 147.6V to 151.2V for now, that gives me a 4.1v to 4.2v per cell adjustable range to suit my 36 leaf cells.

Using the 5K1 figure for R2, my figures suggest a 51K fixed resistor and 100K Pot. Would you agree that sounds about right?

Regards,

Paul


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

favguy said:


> ... what I really need is adjustability up to and including 151.2v


So you want to be able to go to almost zero adjustment, i.e. from 147.6 to 151.2. So that's a 151.2/176.6 = 1.024x change, so you'd like to be able to do 5.1/1.024 = 4.98 kR. So 1/(1/4.98 - 1/1.51)) = 209k. Sorry, I think you mentioned those figures before, but I ignored them.



> Using the 5K1 figure for R2, my figures suggest a 51K fixed resistor and 100K Pot. Would you agree that sounds about right?


It looks like you'll need a bit more than that. You won't want to go below 63.3kR, so the fixed resistor could be 56k or even 62k, but I'd make it 56k to allow for a little error. But you will want at least 209-56 = 153k more resistance at the other end; a bit more for errors. So I'd say 56k fixed resistor and a 200k pot. It might be worth making it a multi-turn pot, since if you need higher voltage, you'll be at the end where a small difference in resistance makes a large change in voltage.

I would point out that this mod only modifies one of two resistor voltage dividers. There are identical voltage dividers on each side of the DC output relay in series with the charger output, to measure the charger output and battery voltage separately before the relay is connected. This avoids unexpected surges in voltage when the relay is thrown. So really you should do the same mod to both voltage dividers, and keep the settings about the same on both pots. I guess the single voltage divider mod works because the battery voltage divider is mainly used to determine whether the pack is too low in voltage, or too high in voltage, to be safely charged. Usually there would be a fairly wide margin with these.

The other way is to re-flash the firmware to change to 10 useful voltage settings, selectable with the LED and push-button routine.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Thanks for the further feedback on this. 

I entirely agree the best course of action would be to get it re-programmed, but I'm in the UK so it's costly and impractical to send it to the US for this. I bought it via a Chinese re-seller (good price, but useless aftersales service) so TCCH won't want to play nice and supply me with a reprogramming board, so here we are...


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

So far i know of 3 chargers that have been re-programmed since we started this effort in April, including one that had code repaired that was written over during the process of reading. 

The longer we play with these chargers the more we learn about them. There are hardware limitations of course due to the transformer inside the box, but Mr. Coulomb has no limits with respect to the software--he owns it. They all run basically the same program, only the curves are different for the type of battery and algorithm desired. 

So now you do have some options: 

One option is DIY. i would recommend that you try to reflash the memory before mucking around with pots and stuff. How? Go buy an arduino Mega kit on the interweb, and download the free software, then play with it using the example codes. You will need this basic knowledge and skill in order to learn how to reprogram your charger.

Another option might be some sort of plug in card to load in a new family of curves.

And another option might be a menu screen with user-selectable settings for voltage and current curves, etc.

Beware of connecting a PC serial port to the charger serial port directly--they are not directly compatible and you will blow a chip in the charger. As far as i know everyone that has messed around with these has blown one, except for Paul, and Z_Power.

[Edit 8/20/14] Latest news-- a complete change out and programming of the microprocessor chip on both the master and slave control boards, and the conversion of a lead acid charger to lithium curves. The black sealant covered the board and seeped under the chips making reuse or testing after removal an unlikely prospect...


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

kennybobby said:


> Beware of connecting a PC serial port to the charger serial port directly--they are not directly compatible and you will blow a chip in the charger. As far as i know everyone that has messed around with these has blown one, except for Paul.


I must have had more luck than knowledge because I connected charger trough USB/serial adapter and up till now can read the port fine; maybe there's some current limiting circuit inside the dongle... 
I didn't connect anything to charger's RxD line, will use optocouplers definitely (right now I only need to "listen" to charger, but maybe one day I'll get the skills to attempt reprogramming).


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

z_power said:


> I must have had more luck than knowledge ... maybe there's some current limiting circuit inside the dongle...


There is none in the charger. It's just a phototransistor with no current limiting resistor (sending data from the charger) or LED with no current limiting resistor (receiving data to the charger), with 12 V behind them. Fortunately, a typical RS232 receiver is quite high impedance, and the polarity and voltage levels are such that a typical RS232 receiver will sometimes work just connecting charger TXD to RS232 RXD. A pull-down to ground or to something slightly negative is highly recommended. Without the pull-down, you might appear to be reading data, but it may be highly corrupted.

When sending the other way, one often blows up the opto coupler's LED. RS232 drivers have enough current to do this, and there is no current limiting in the charger. You also need logical inversion in this direction (you need a negative going current limited signal for a "mark" or "data zero" state). A single transistor with two resistors is enough to achieve this (one resistor to limit base current, about 10k to 50k, amd another in series with the serial line for cirrent limiting; about 5k seems to be used in similar circuits inside the charger).

Remember also that this 12 V behind the opto devices, while labelled "isolated" on the schematic, has conductivity to the negative side of the pack. If there is leakage to chassis/ground near the positive end of the pack, these connections could be lethal. If your serial dongle isn't isolated, it could also blow up your PC's USB ports or worse.


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## BrianMay (Mar 23, 2013)

any advances on this? I have a 3kw 84V charger (max [email protected]) but I went a different way and now I'll be using 31 a123 cells, so I need a higher tension but don't want to buy a new charger as this one would end up being an expensive paper-weight


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

BrianMay said:


> any advances on this?


We're advanced enough to get this done, I believe, as long as your charger will go high enough. It seems that an 84 V charger has a maximum voltage of about 112 V, which would give you just over 3.6 V per cell on a 31 cell string. Perhaps the maximum voltage is written on a sticker on your charger?

The thing that we're unfortunately not advanced with is documenting this process. Hopefully soon...


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

You should be able to calculate it as well from the transformer windings.

Np/Ns = Vp/Vs ex: 120v charger with Np=25 Ns = 12 max voltage is 161v

335/(25/12)=161V 335V being the PWM output voltage. I don't remember the exact value.

Or did I make a mistake?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

pdove said:


> You should be able to calculate it as well from the transformer windings.


True, but the winding ratios are only available by reading the EEPROM, I think.



> Np/Ns = Vp/Vs ex: 12v charger with Np=25 Ns = 12 max voltage is 161v


12 V may be a special case, because the MOSFET voltage drops (up to a half a volt at maximum current? And, two in series) may be significant compared to the output voltage. For higher voltages, this can be neglected.

Edit: oops! The MOSFET drops are at the primary end of the transformer, so they are negligible. But the rectifier voltage drops (0.2 to 0.5 V each?) will be significant. These are after the transformer (i.e. on the secondary side).


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Coulomb said:


> True, but the winding ratios are only available by reading the EEPROM, I think.


Should be written on transformer.



Coulomb said:


> 12 V may be a special case, because the MOSFET voltage drops (up to a half a volt at maximum current? And, two in series) may be significant compared to the output voltage. For higher voltages, this can be neglected.


Sorry typo should be 120V

ex: 144v charger with Np=25 Ns = 15 
max voltage is 201v =335 * 15 / 25


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## furyphoto (May 14, 2013)

I know this thread has moved on to trying to re-program the chargers, but I have recently successfully trimmed my Elcon charger to my desired pack voltage. I sold a second charger to a fellow in Belgium, and I made a little video about the modification for his, in case it can help anyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3i0zJ_M1Pg

I also whipped up a spreadsheet that does the math to find the right resistance (at least for the 1500w) to add to the voltage divider circuit on the charger to trim to the desired charge finish voltage.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3MrdZrZzJzaR0tjdzdwMUJsdVU&authuser=0


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

furyphoto said:


> I know this thread has moved on to trying to re-program the chargers...


Oh, you're allowed to change back to the original topic!

Just as long as you don't do it too often 

Nice work, BTW. For a lot of cases, this will be easier than reprogramming.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

No, reprogramming takes about 5 minutes. Much easier.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Another succeeded modification. From 41 to 50 lifepo4 cells (182v max) to 200v for charging 48S chevy Volt battery.
Thanks Ripperton for this thread and thanks furyphoto for the clear explanation.


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

I am still digesting the contents of this thread... But I am also wondering if there is a more simple way to make an elcon just push out the full amps it is capable of. I have multiple chargers so I was thinking that all of them can do the bulk charge but the smarter one can do the finishing. Is there a basic on/off signal somewhere that can be meddled with?


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

tenthousandclowns said:


> I am still digesting the contents of this thread... But I am also wondering if there is a more simple way to make an elcon just push out the full amps it is capable of. I have multiple chargers so I was thinking that all of them can do the bulk charge but the smarter one can do the finishing. Is there a basic on/off signal somewhere that can be meddled with?


No, there's no on / off function other than enable. It has 10 charge curves to choose from.

It can be modified to be on max and then off but one would need to reprogram it.


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

I have a TCCH-96-18 that I got on ebay. came with no screws holding the base to the rest and some dog hair inside. Programmed for FLA, being used for bulk charging (not finishing or tapering) 36 lifepo4 cells. Tested it today with the batteries 3/4 full and got the following results:

2/2/2016 Used Elcon TCCH-96-18 test
Algorithm #116, profile #7

8.4k Ohms between pins 2 & 5 on control board

#cells	volts [email protected]&5	result (for 10 seconds or so)

30 99.6 2.8xx solid red 45A charge
31 102.8 2.891 solid red 45A charge
32 106.2 2.985 solid red 44.2A charge
33 109.5 3.078 solid red 42.8A charge
34 112.9 3.171 red-green 'wrong battery'
36 119.5 3.363 red-green 'wrong battery'

each cell adds about 0.093v to the difference between pins 2 & 5.

why is it charging at 45A instead of 18? Perhaps something funny due to not using the full pack.

I have a wire soldered to pins 2&5 to add a pot to. I would like the charger to go up to 124v, so the signal voltage would have to be about 3.5v based on roughly extrapolating the numbers above.
How many ohms do I need to add?


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

tenthousandclowns said:


> 8.4k Ohms between pins 2 & 5 on control board


Did you mean pin 31 and 28 on the control board not 2 & 5?

This charger already goes up to 130 volts at 18 Amps. I know guys have done this successfully but it's not a good practice. The software was not written to have these voltages varied with a pot.

That said, if you push the button on the side when powering up you can change the number of cells and thus change the end voltage. Like I said it goes up to 130Volts already.

Is there a tag on the side that tells you the curve for 36 cells?


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/7344653/7638123.htm

This site explains changing programming with the button.


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

My charger has 10 profiles for different sizes of lower voltage flooded lead-acid cells. I understand how to reset from the 10 pre-programmed settings with the button. This thread is about adjusting the voltage by adding a pot. I am curious to hear what would be the pitfalls of doing this.

I do not know how the pins are numbered at the factory or if there are numbers printed under the black paint. I referred to them as 2 and 5 based on this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3i0zJ_M1Pg which I found out about from this thread. You can see in the photo which pins I have the wires added to.

Upon further reflection, I see that the voltage on pins 2&5 would end up around 3.5v with the 36 cells coming up to finish bulk charge, but would need to be reduced to about 3v by adding resistors. I couldn't find the math problem to plug these numbers into.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

tenthousandclowns said:


> This thread is about adjusting the voltage by adding a pot. I am curious to hear what would be the pitfalls of doing this.


The main one is that really you would need two pots, one for the charger output and one for the battery voltage. There are two voltage dividers, on pins 31 (which you're calling 2), and 26. These are the same thing when the output relay is on, but are different when the relay is off. I don't know what effect having a different reading from the two might have; certainly, it could confuse the firmware. For example, there could be a surge of current when the output relay closes; they go to some trouble to ensure that it closes with near-zero voltage across it. I think it's not rated for switching a large DC voltage across its contacts.



> I do not know how the pins are numbered at the factory or if there are numbers printed under the black paint.


You can see "22" near the left most of the group of 11 pins in your photo; these are part of a 32 pin connector. There is also a "32" under the right hand one that may be partly obscured by the black gunk.



> I referred to them as 2 and 5 based on this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3i0zJ_M1Pg which I found out about from this thread. You can see in the photo which pins I have the wires added to.


You have connected to 31 and 28. 28 is one of the digital grounds; 31 connects to the battery voltage divider. As mentioned above, 26 connects to the charger output voltage divider.



> Upon further reflection, I see that the voltage on pins 2&5 would end up around 3.5v with the 36 cells coming up to finish bulk charge, but would need to be reduced to about 3v by adding resistors. I couldn't find the math problem to plug these numbers into.


It's easy enough. The relevant part of the Elcon/TC charger schematic (from elsewhere on this forum) is as follows; note that the resistors can change value with different voltage models:










I've annotated the original figures for R34 and R35 with what I found on some models. You need to check the value of those 4 resistors (R34, R35, R8 and R9). To read the resistor values, you'll need to scrape off some of the black gunk; a wooden chopstick that is flat at one end and sharpened at the other is useful for this. You could measure the resistors in situ, but that almost always has errors due to leakage conduction through the rest of the circuit.

You can then read the value of R10 and R20 from the PCB (they're pairs of through-hole resistors near the relevant pins), or calculate what they must be.

All the calculations are in a PDF called "HOW TO TRIM THE ENDPOINT VOLTAGE ON A ELCON.pdf", which I'm sure you can find; it's probably on this thread. It's made a little tricky by the second voltage divider. But voltage dividers are easy (R1/R1+R2), and parallel resistors are easy (product over sum). A little wrestling with a calculator and paper and pen should do it. The 100k pot plus 47k series resistor from the PDF should come close. But of course to do it properly you will need two pots and two resistors.

Let us know how it goes.

[ Edit: I think the 45 A you thought you measured must be a measurement error. That doesn't look like a 4500 W charger. ]
[ Edit2: There is an online calculator for figuring out the resistance needed in the comments for the video you linked to. I believe that for the lower resistor, you need to add the values of R8 and R9. Note that with some models, the upper resistor is actually two resistors in series (higher voltage models, presumably). ]


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you Coulomb! This is all new territory for me so I am still learning. I understand your point about adding the resistance in two places.

On the chart I see I need to measure two resistors between pin 31 and ground (which could be pin 28). I have measured the total of the two at 8.4kohms. Where would I find the point between the two resistors? or is it obvious if I scrape off enough black stuff?

I see I also need to measure between pin 26 and 28. I will go do that now. But same question; where is the point between the two resistors (34 & 35) there? On both parts of the schematic, there is a line between the resistors going off somewhere but no pin number or identifying feature. (Does it show up on the complete diagram somewhere?)

You mention R10 and R20, but I don't see them on your diagram or on the online calculator. I couldn't get the online calculator to let me type in any values. It seems there that I need to measure resistance between pin 31 (aka 2) and batt +. I will go do that too.

I have the 'how to trim...' pdf. It only discusses the mod between pins 31 & 28. I assume the addition of the second pot at pin 26 is a more recent advancement of the process.

Thank you so much for helping me figure this out.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

You should be able to read the part designators off of this picture.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

tenthousandclowns said:


> On the chart I see I need to measure two resistors between pin 31 and ground (which could be pin 28). I have measured the total of the two at 8.4kohms.


That's close enough to 8.7 kR that I'd say you have the 3.6k and 5.1k in series combination. Multimeters on in-circuit resistors will often read a little less resistance than the one(s) you are trying to read, because of parallel paths (possibly through unpowered semiconductors, which can be highly unpredictable). That's why I suggest you scrape off enough black gunk (Paul's photo will show you where to start) and read the designators on the resistors. I can just make out 3601 (3.k kR) and 5101 (5k1) on Paul's photo for both R8/R9 and R34/R35.



> Where would I find the point between the two resistors?


You don't need that point. Just treat the 3.6 and 5.1 in series (if that's what they are) as a single 8k7 resistor.



> On both parts of the schematic, there is a line between the resistors going off somewhere but no pin number or identifying feature. (Does it show up on the complete diagram somewhere?)


They go off to analog inputs on the microcontroller. It's all there on the complete schematic, except that R10 and R20 are on a separate schematic with the DC output section. 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/tcch-elcon-1-5kw-charger-schematics-89470.html



> You mention R10 and R20, but I don't see them on your diagram or on the online calculator.


These will be the upper resistors, around 170 kR. [ Edit 2: I was thinking the pin 28 to pin 31 voltage was around 5 V, like in the video, but it's around 3 V. So that means a ratio of roughly 103:3, so if R2 really is 8.7 K, I'd expect the upper resistor R1 to be (103/3)*8.7 ~= 300 k. ]



> I couldn't get the online calculator to let me type in any values.


I didn't try that. It's Google Docs; you may have to make a private copy of the spreadsheet that you can edit without messing up the original. The instructions to do that should be there; they may be a little cryptic until you've done one or two.



> It seems there that I need to measure resistance between pin 31 (aka 2) and batt +. I will go do that too.


That won't work, unless the charger is running, when it would be dangerous and you won't get a useful reading. But R10 is easily found on the main PCB just behind pin 26. I find those blue resistors hard to read (e.g. brown, red, and orange look so similar to me), so you might have to calculate the expected value and or measure, then see if you can confirm your calculation or measurement from the actual resistor stripes.



> I have the 'how to trim...' pdf. It only discusses the mod between pins 31 & 28. I assume the addition of the second pot at pin 26 is a more recent advancement of the process.


Yes, it's something that I believe should be done. Obviously people are getting away without it, but I think they may be stressing their relays and possibly their packs.


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you coulomb and pdove. I have made some progress in understanding the instructions in the PDF from Ian.

I have measured the ohms between 31 &28 at 8.4k, 8.7k, and 8.5k at different times. I measured the ohms between 26 & 28 at 8.5k. Since these values are so similar, I would put the same resistance between both points, yes?

Results from “how to trim....” pdf trim range (increasing).
R1=303k, R2=8.7k, Vorig=110 (approximate values, R2 also measured at 8.4k & 8.5k)
1. Vmax=120, Vmin=130 (these seem backwards to me, but no biggie)
2. Rmax=0.92, Rmin=0.85
3. RPmax=8k, RPmin=7.4k
4. Raddmax=100k, Raddmin=50k
5. pot value=50k
6. series resistor=50k


R10 Brown/Green/Black/Orange/Violet/White
R20 Brown/Green/Black/Orange/Gold/White
Seems like those are 150k resistors


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

All the measurements were done with no batteries or AC connected to charger.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

> R10 Brown/Green/Black/Orange/Violet/White
> R20 Brown/Green/Black/Orange/Gold/White
> Seems like those are 150k resistors

Ok, but is it one or two 150 k resistors in series? Some chargers like the one in the photo have two resistors in series for each of R20 and R10; R20 outlined here:

















Others have one, like the one in the video and the second photo (from the video). Which is yours? If you have single resistors, then you should be using 150 k not 303 k for R1. With about 100 V at the top of the voltage divider and some 5 V at the bottom, you expect a resistance ratio of 20:1 (total:bottom), or the top one 19 times the bottom one, so 19 x 8.7k = roughly 166k, so 150 k sounds right. 303k sounds wrong.


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

In my photo on page 14 I have two resistors there... I was guessing that one of them was R20 and the other was something else. But also it seems that I am not dealing with that one, only the resistance called 'R2' in the original PDF, the approx. 8.7k ohm.

Also when I was measuring the 303k, it started around 150k and then kept going up and seemed to stabilize around 303k.

Mmmm.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

tenthousandclowns said:


> In my photo on page 14 I have two resistors there...


Duh. I can't believe I missed that. They certainly look like 150 k resistors, too.



> I was guessing that one of them was R20 and the other was something else.


No, together they make up the total for R20. So it looks like R20 is actually 300k, and the combination of resistor tolerance and your multimeter accuracy have added 1% to that.



> But also it seems that I am not dealing with that one, only the resistance called 'R2' in the original PDF, the approx. 8.7k ohm.


The 300 k (R20) and what we've been calling 8.7k (R8 and R9 in series) form a voltage divider. Ignoring the effect of the analog input circuit and other bits and pieces, both these resistors set the voltage ratio. 

One of your measurements was 109.5 V (battery) and 3.078 V (across pins 31 and 28), so that's 109.5-3.078 = 106.4 across the top resistor, and 3.078 across the bottom resistor, so that makes the voltage ratio 106.4/3.078:1 or 34.58:1. So the bottom resistor should be 300k / 34.58 = 8.68k. That confirms that you have the 3k6 and 5k1 resistors in series for R2. So you should use R1=300k and R2 = 8.7 k in your calculator. It looks like you can do the exact same thing with the other voltage divider on pins 26 to 28.

[ With the assumption made, there will be equal currents through each resistor, so each will drop a voltage directly proportional to its resistance. Varying R1 will vary the current through R2 and hence its voltage drop. So you really are "dealing with" the value of R1. My apologies if I misunderstood your comment. ]



> Also when I was measuring the 303k, it started around 150k and then kept going up and seemed to stabilize around 303k.


That's not uncommon, especially when measuring larger value resistors (100k+) in-circuit. There are capacitors that take a while to charge up at the low currents the multimeter uses to measure the resistor value. Charging capacitors look like lower value resistors; once they are charged up, they look like very large resistances, almost open circuit, and can be neglected. So the final settled value is usually the right one, though you can occasionally get weird effects where the multimeter reads increasingly negative resistances. This latter can happen when electrolytic capacitors take hours or days to discharge the last little bit of their stored charge, and can actually increase in terminal voltage over time. That's why it's usually best to read the nominal value of the component, or take it out of circuit to measure its value.


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

Dear Coulomb.
This is the most thorough, clear, and helpful experience I have ever had on this forum. Thank you so much.

My original math using 303k and 8.7k left me adding about a 50k resistor and a 50k pot.. I will do that between both 31 &28 and 26 &28. I think I will go ahead and try them out when they arrive in the mail.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Coulomb is an awesome guy


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## tenthousandclowns (Jun 21, 2012)

Added the resistors.... seems to be working great. thanks everyone.


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## duranza (Aug 27, 2009)

I have managed to get an elcon 1500 charger without the black stuff. If anyone is interested in detailed pictures let me know.


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## duranza (Aug 27, 2009)

Can these pfc1500 chargers be changed from let's say 72v to 120v?


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