# 30kw Hub motors for EV?



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

http://www.ev-propulsion.com/motorcycle-hub-motors.html

Each motor is 10kw cont. and 30kw peak...

Could these be retrofitted into a car rim? could they be paired? side-by-side to create 60kw car wheels?

Generally speaking 15-20kw should be enough to cruise at freeway speeds (70mph)

Imagine 2 in each wheel, 8 motors, 240kw peak, AWD and AWD-regen braking, more room for batteries, 1300each = 10K$ price tag for motors alone...

What do you think of this setup? A bit over the top eh?

8 motors = $10,400 (4 motor pairs, 1 pair for each wheel)
8 controllers = $8,000 (I am not sure if this could be simplified)
37 400AH TS cells = $16,300 (48kwh, if 15kwh = 70mph, then 100%DoD = 224miles, pack weighs 1000lbs)
BMS = 2,300 (not sure but seems reasonable)

Total $37,000 (w/o donor)

your thoughts, comments, suggestions, ideas?


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

this motors DONT have a Eff of 92%...NO WAY

No hubmotors get Eff over 90%...


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> http://www.ev-propulsion.com/motorcycle-hub-motors.html
> 
> Each motor is 10kw cont. and 30kw peak...
> 
> ...


I really liked the idea of doing the same thing but using them inboard, for example close to where the diff would be. It all looked good but the rpms when used with the Kelly controller, if I remember correctly where about 1500 so if you do your maths, it did not make for a great top speed.


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

dont forget, that each motor needs its own controller...

if you want to go with 8x motors...you will need 8x controllers#

one motor is around 22-25kg...your system is getting heavy


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

The motor is designed for motorcycles as stated on the web site and is 10KW continous not 30 KW
Also the motor is 90 plus eff at 75% of max speed. Huge amount of work was done to minimize eddy currents at speed to improve eff. This is a custom design that cost EnerTrac a huge amount of money to develop.

EnerTrac Corp. has several test motorcycles all are welcome to test ride and judge the performance and range for oneself.
We are located in Farmingdale, NY

EnerTrac and EV propulsion are working on a electric differential version of the motor for small cars. We'll have something to show in a few weeks.

Anyway please don't bad mouth a product for a application its not intended for. When we come out with the car version it will be with a working car, then you can judge if the product meets your needs. We are also working on a controller to match to the motor for a greatly reduced cost compared with what is now available

http://www.doingitall.net/EnerTrac





 
Mark


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

RoughRider said:


> dont forget, that each motor needs its own controller...
> 
> if you want to go with 8x motors...you will need 8x controllers#
> 
> one motor is around 22-25kg...your system is getting heavy


Not true if the motor are mechanically locked and synced together. 

You would need one controller per wheel

Mark


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## PTCruisin (Nov 19, 2009)

markcycle said:


> EnerTrac and EV propulsion are working on a electric differential version of the motor for small cars. We'll have something to show in a few weeks.
> 
> 
> Mark


This could be a game changer.


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

hey mark, i dont want to talk bad about your motor...
i can not belive Eff 90% plus for a hub motor...
a hubmotor turns slow and in low rpms the Effs is low...

i think you dont have any graphs that show the Eff of your motor according to rpm?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

He didn't say it was constant efficiency. All motors have an efficiency curve and most that I've seen are more efficient at higher RPM's. This is PEAK efficiency we're talking about.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

karlos said:


> I really liked the idea of doing the same thing but using them inboard, for example close to where the diff would be. It all looked good but the rpms when used with the Kelly controller, if I remember correctly where about 1500 so if you do your maths, it did not make for a great top speed.


Really? I thought 1500rpm with a 25" tire was over 100mph? How much faster do you need to go?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> The motor is designed for motorcycles as stated on the web site and is 10KW continous not 30 KW
> Also the motor is 90 plus eff at 75% of max speed. Huge amount of work was done to minimize eddy currents at speed to improve eff. This is a custom design that cost EnerTrac a huge amount of money to develop.
> 
> EnerTrac Corp. has several test motorcycles all are welcome to test ride and judge the performance and range for oneself.
> ...


Mark, this DIY forum's existence relied/relies on people being innovative using products made for different applications (forklift DC motors) in DIY EVs...No one is bad mouthing your product(s).

I look forward to your car hub motor or differential motor or whatever you guys come out with.


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

frodus said:


> He didn't say it was constant efficiency. All motors have an efficiency curve and most that I've seen are more efficient at higher RPM's. This is PEAK efficiency we're talking about.


frodus...it doesnt matter...if constant or peak eff...

a hubmotor is always under 90%...

and we all know that the motor from mark is not a super hightec motor...

it is a bigger X5000 and thats it...

mark you say "huge amount of money to develop"...let us know what you have done to the motor design, thats cost so much and gets the Eff over 90%


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

It'd help if he had curves.... 

I just don't like the broad generalized statements saying that just because it hasn't been done before means it can't be done now.


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

frodus said:


> It'd help if he had curves....
> 
> I just don't like the broad generalized statements saying that just because it hasn't been done before means it can't be done now.


hey, frodus...well i dont like statements like "the motor has 90% + Eff" without proveing it...

maybe it is possible to get a hubmotor(with BLDC design) over 90%...but you will have to use hightec materials...

in low rpms you have alot of copper losses...

i would like to post e Eff-picture...but my webspace is down


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Really? I thought 1500rpm with a 25" tire was over 100mph? How much faster do you need to go?


You are quite correct and therefore the Enertrac solution is much better than I originally thought. I'll be more careful of my calcs in future!


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

RoughRider said:


> this motors DONT have a Eff of 92%...NO WAY
> 
> No hubmotors get Eff over 90%...


I don't know if this one does or not.... but be careful with absolute statements like that.

Here is a in-wheel hub motor that gets ~98% efficiency... and it was made back in 1999... there might be some progress in getting prices down in the last 10 years... but as others have posted... efficiency is not flat... it changes depending on the specifics of the conditions.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I know its not the designed method of use, but if the website claims that EACH motor should support...495lbs (fully loaded weight)...

_



These voltage and current results were obtained using a 325 
pound motorcycle with a 170 pound rider on a flat road with
little to no headwind your results will vary depending on 
motorcycle, rider weight, and conditions. 

Click to expand...

__..._.Then EIGHT motors should be able to support 3,960lbs

I think the battery pack weighed in at 1100lbs for 224 mile range (100% DoD)

~1100lbs Batteries
~500lbs for 8 Motors
~200lbs for 4 controllers (one per each wheel-motor-pair)
~100lbs Charger + Extras
~100lbs Misc.

Total = ~2000lbs

1960lbs Remaining!!


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> I know its not the designed method of use, but if the website claims that EACH motor should support...495lbs (fully loaded weight)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems the Curtis AC Controllers have a dual drive functionality and I wondering if one of there controllers could be used for two Enertrac motors that are not mechanically linked. This would seem unusual for an AC controller. Anyone with any understanding of this?
Quote from Curtis website;


> • Dual-Drive functionality is standard, allowing correct
> control of vehicles such as 3-wheel counterbalance trucks or
> other applications featuring twin traction motors. This function
> ensures smooth and safe operation, minimal tire wear and
> correct load sharing between the traction motors at all times.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

No, still need 2 controllers, it supports talking of the two together to correct for slip when going around a turn.

2 motors, unless their shafts are welded together/mechanically linked 100%, need 3phases each. Since there's 2 sets of 3-phase, you'd need 2 controllers. Period.


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

frodus said:


> No, still need 2 controllers, it supports talking of the two together to correct for slip when going around a turn.
> 
> 2 motors, unless their shafts are welded together/mechanically linked 100%, need 3phases each. Since there's 2 sets of 3-phase, you'd need 2 controllers. Period.


Thanks for that Frodus. With the Kelly and Curtis controllers you could not make full use of the motors anyway by using one controller.
How is the progress with the Zilla AC controllers?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Progress with Zilla AC?

As far as I know, there is none, that was years ago.


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

frodus said:


> Progress with Zilla AC?
> 
> As far as I know, there is none, that was years ago.


Pity, was just fishing as I had heard of the possible development somewhere sometime.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

70kw wheel motors to be released shortly. (check the videos out)

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/03/24/super-wheel-motor-from-stealthy-australians-soon-to-surface/


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

i realy dont wanna talk bad about marks motor...just want to stick to the truth...

@IamIan
you should be carefull WHAT you are comparing...
the CSIRO is a axial flux HIGHTEC motor...no iron inside...

marks motor is a "normal" radial flux hubmotor...BLDC...with 2-3kg of iron inside


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## Matthijs (Jun 19, 2009)

frodus said:


> Progress with Zilla AC?
> 
> As far as I know, there is none, that was years ago.





Mesuge said:


> In the mid-long term I think they might be finished (speaking conversions market), because when Otmar releases his Tri-Zilla (in crude <100kW prototype since ~2007) feat. his neat Hairball wiring interface, it's all over for AzureD, so you should perhaps think about this in larger context as well. Btw. James from EV Components promised AC Zilla - real prototype disclousure for 2010..


Maybe this post has something to do with it? Forumlink


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> I know its not the designed method of use, but if the website claims that EACH motor should support...495lbs (fully loaded weight)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't understand why someone would write this nonsense No where does it say absolute maximum weight in that statement and who says the current motorcycle design is what we will be selling for cars.

Listen EnerTrac and EV propulsion are going to build a 2500 pound car using these or a variant of these motors we're not going to sell vapor ware We'll publish the specs and results of our build, then decide if we are going to sell a car kit. We are not going to sell anything until we prove it works and understand the cost so relax.

*Currently what EnerTrac and EV propulsion is selling is a motorcycle motor*

Mark


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> I don't understand why someone would write this nonsense No where does it say absolute maximum weight in that statement and who says the current motorcycle design is what we will be selling for cars.
> 
> Listen EnerTrac and EV propulsion are going to build a 2500 pound car using these or a variant of these motors we're not going to sell vapor ware We'll publish the specs and results of our build, then decide if we are going to sell a car kit. We are not going to sell anything until we prove it works and understand the cost so relax.
> 
> ...


Who are YOU to tell anyone to relax when you are the one who got all bent out of shape over people discussing/questioning the specs of your motors calling it "bad mouthing"? Now you are calling "nonsense" to a simple theoretical setup just because its not exactly the applicaiton you or your company warrants. 

* THIS IS A DIY WEBSITE/FORUM, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE PEOPLE DISCUSSING SPECS AND ALTERNATIVE USES OF PARTS THEN DON'T PARTICIPATE.*

*AND WE ALL KNOW THE MOTOR IS FOR A MOTORCYCLE SO GET OVER YOURSELF.*


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

RoughRider said:


> @IamIan
> you should be carefull WHAT you are comparing...
> the CSIRO is a axial flux HIGHTEC motor...no iron inside...
> 
> marks motor is a "normal" radial flux hubmotor...BLDC...with 2-3kg of iron inside


I wasn't comparing anything.

I said I don't know what the efficiency is or the curve would be for this particular motor.

I was only writing a word of caution about the use of such absolute statements ... this goes for wheel motors , hub motors as much as anything... the CSIRO was just a specific example of a flaw in such absolute statements.



IamIan said:


> RoughRider said:
> 
> 
> > this motors DONT have a Eff of 92%...NO WAY
> ...


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Who are YOU to tell anyone to relax when you are the one who got all bent out of shape over people discussing/questioning the specs of your motors calling it "bad mouthing"? Now you are calling "nonsense" to a simple theoretical setup just because its not exactly the applicaiton you or your company warrants.
> 
> *THIS IS A DIY WEBSITE/FORUM, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE PEOPLE DISCUSSING SPECS AND ALTERNATIVE USES OF PARTS THEN DON'T PARTICIPATE.*
> 
> *AND WE ALL KNOW THE MOTOR IS FOR A MOTORCYCLE SO GET OVER YOURSELF.*


When you misrepresent a motorcycle spec and make like it applies to a car then you are twisting the facts to meet your predetermined conclusions. Do you think extrapolating that 8 motors will be needed by reading the motorcycle spec is a honest approach to a theoretical setup anyone would take serious Just sounds like an attempt at ridicule to me (bad mouthing). 
So was that a attempt at ridicule seems so but i could be wrong?

Whats your beef did I do something to hurt your feelings.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> When you misrepresent a motorcycle spec and make like it applies to a car then you are twisting the facts to meet your predetermined conclusions. Do you think extrapolating that 8 motors will be needed by reading the motorcycle spec is a honest approach to a theoretical setup anyone would take serious Just sounds like an attempt at ridicule to me (bad mouthing).
> So was that a attempt at ridicule seems so but i could be wrong?
> 
> Whats your beef did I do something to hurt your feelings.


I wasn't misrepresenting anything, did I or did I not supply the link directly to your website in my original post? So I basically routed everyone interested in the thread topic to your website so they could see for themselves the EXACT SPECS. (You're Welcome!)

Seriously Mark you couldn't be more wrong...The God's honest truth was that I was truly impressed by your motor. The motor is the most powerful hub-type motor I have found available for purchase. Like you said in one of your previous posts, Its not vaporware, your motor is real and its cool and I was impressed thats why it got me thinking....

It was actually my interest in your motor that drove me to think about a theoretical setup that I honestly think would work (and was looking for constructive criticism from those WAY more knowledgeable than me), even if I had to extrapolate the motorcycle specs to get a rough estimate on the application. Everyone knew I was estimating the data, I wasn't misrepresenting anything to ridicule you. It seems as though you have this paranoia with people ridiculing you or bad mouthing you.


And BTW smaller motors used together to drive a larger application is nothing new Mark...
http://www.nedra.com/125mph_club.html
(Check the bottom of the page)
Orange Juice
Eric Stanislaw
June 9 , 2007
1/4 Mile in 10.411 secs @126.98 mph
Specs = 240 volts, 20 Deka 12-volt batteries, Zilla K2, *8 Lemco motors driving 4 tires - 2 motors per wheel *


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> I wasn't misrepresenting anything, did I or did I not supply the link directly to your website in my original post? So I basically routed everyone interested in the thread topic to your website so they could see for themselves the EXACT SPECS. (You're Welcome!)
> 
> Seriously Mark you couldn't be more wrong...The God's honest truth was that I was truly impressed by your motor. The motor is the most powerful hub-type motor I have found available for purchase. Like you said in one of your previous posts, Its not vaporware, your motor is real and its cool and I was impressed thats why it got me thinking....
> 
> ...


No paranoia at all and I'm open to any and all discussion for uses of the EnerTrac 600 series motors, just somehow I though an 8 motor 8 controller DIY electric car with the resultant weight as per your thread stated, was so over the top as to be ridiculous and some form of ridicule. 

Not worth me spending any more time on this thread so I'll end by saying
*guess I was wrong you really did consider 8 motors and controllers as a serious technical exercise, sorry please forgive me doubting your sincerity in exploring uses for the 600 series motor.*


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> No paranoia at all and I'm open to any and all discussion for uses of the EnerTrac 600 series motors, just somehow I though an 8 motor 8 controller DIY electric car with the resultant weight as per your thread stated, was so over the top as to be ridiculous and some form of ridicule.
> 
> Not worth me spending any more time on this thread so I'll end by saying
> *guess I was wrong you really did consider 8 motors and controllers as a serious technical exercise, sorry please forgive me doubting your sincerity in exploring uses for the 600 series motor.*


However ridiculous it was still sincere and never meant to ridicule you or your company.

Back on topic then. 

Do you have a timeframe you can share with us about the car version of the motor?
Will it also be 10kw cont. ? Or more?
Any pricing estimates ? Would u discount bulk purchases?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Bumping this for updates for Mark's enertrac car differential product...


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Dated: March 25th 2010


markcycle said:


> EnerTrac and EV propulsion are working on a electric differential version of the motor for small cars. We'll have something to show in a few weeks.
> 
> Mark


I guess something happened to the "few weeks"...


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Dated: March 25th 2010
> 
> 
> I guess something happened to the "few weeks"...


Design is finished on paper, material has been purchased, chips fly this week Sorry for the optimism I know you're at the edge of your seat waiting to buy the setup. 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3803661/Miata%20Motors_3.jpg

Mark


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

markcycle said:


> Design is finished on paper, material has been purchased, chips fly this week Sorry for the optimism I know you're at the edge of your seat waiting to buy the setup.
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3803661/Miata Motors_3.jpg
> 
> Mark


So given time for materials to arrive ... construction .... testing ... etc...

Roughly 1st or 2nd quarter 2011?


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

IamIan said:


> So given time for materials to arrive ... construction .... testing ... etc...
> 
> Roughly 1st or 2nd quarter 2011?


Before the end of the year is realistic, I expect to show axles spinning much sooner than that. The goal here is to demonstrate that the motors can successfully run a 2500 pound car and get hard data. The interface of the motors to any particular car is going to be custom unless you want exactly what we are doing.

Mark


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> Before the end of the year is realistic, I expect to show axles spinning much sooner than that. The goal here is to demonstrate that the motors can successfully run a 2500 pound car and get hard data. The interface of the motors to any particular car is going to be custom unless you want exactly what we are doing.
> 
> Mark


Very cool....This is huge...i mean any car (given the right mods as you mention) can be made into a hybrid (with the right interface) or an EV, 2WD or 4WD...good luck Mark


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

We are making progress see video






Mark


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

is that two of them hooked up to that single shaft? what voltage and rpm's where you using/getting? anychance you might have a price range this might fall into?


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Evilsizer said:


> is that two of them hooked up to that single shaft? what voltage and rpm's where you using/getting? anychance you might have a price range this might fall into?


The two motors are independent and each will have its own controller.

My feeling is; it will be comparable to, or be less expensive than other AC solutions 

Ultimately we are going to recommend a 144 volt system to date bench testing is at low voltages

Mark


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

sounds good to me! when they are sold will you be offering controllers as well? cause i was thinking a single controller and both motors in series then it switches to parallel after X rpm.


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Evilsizer said:


> sounds good to me! when they are sold will you be offering controllers as well? cause i was thinking a single controller and both motors in series then it switches to parallel after X rpm.


These are AC 3 phase Wye connected motors as such what you are writing about is not possible. 

Mark


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> The two motors are independent and each will have its own controller.
> 
> My feeling is; it will be comparable to, or be less expensive than other AC solutions
> 
> ...


With 144V, will each motor be making more than 30kw (peak)?


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> With 144V, will each motor be making more than 30kw (peak)?


Yes, but that is a peak rating (30KW) determined by the thermal limit

Mark


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

markcycle said:


> Yes, but that is a peak rating (30KW) determined by the thermal limit
> 
> Mark


Is there any forced cooling options, so as to increase the thermal tolerance to extract more peak power?


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> Is there any forced cooling options, so as to increase the thermal tolerance to extract more peak power?


Just curious ... with 4 wheels ... how much more than the 120 kW of peak power did you have in mind?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

IamIan said:


> Just curious ... with 4 wheels ... how much more than the 120 kW of peak power did you have in mind?


As much a possible?

The product is amazing and you're right, setting most cars up with 2 setups(4 motors) would be more than enough...

I was just curious about the possibilities...does the kelly controller (you recommend) also manage the thermal limits of the motor?


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> I was just curious about the possibilities...does the kelly controller (you reccomend) also manage the thermal limits of the motor?


Yes, I was told the controller will cut back if the motor gets hot.


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Is there any forced cooling options, so as to increase the thermal tolerance to extract more peak power?


Forced cooling is definitely something I'm looking into and likely will be an option. In situations where the motors aren't seeing any air moving over them, cooling will be needed

Mark


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

thats great to hear mark...sounds like you have a lot of bases covered.

whats the timing like for the official release?


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> thats great to hear mark...sounds like you have a lot of bases covered.
> 
> whats the timing like for the official release?


I know you've asked me this question a few times and I don't want to be overly optimistic with the answer. Mike and I work on this project between paying customers and late at night so its tough to pin a exact release time. 

Here is my time line
1) next high voltage/speed bench test and solve any alignment vibration problems 
2) Bench test the suspension travel as motors are running
3) Finalize the half shaft modifications
4) Purchase and Test dual controllers
5) Mount in the car, the test car is already electric 
6) Road test, make detailed thermal measurements add forced cooling if needed this will greatly depend if there is any airflow over the motors when mounted under the car.
7) Move forward with preliminary sales and begin user documentation

Any problems along this path can add weeks to the design cycle but as it stands now, three to five weeks to in car testing five to eight weeks to preliminary sales. The motors themselves are in stock at my factory/shop

Mark


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

just a thought mark but if you need some cooling. why not add some fins to the motors or have a optional cooling fin attachment. that is assuming you have people that will be mounting in the same way yall are or the miata.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

So since the standard motor costs about 1300$ and the recommended Kelly controller costs 700$ (thanks roughrider) then with 4 motors, if you wanted 120kw peak, would approximately cost 8,000$ not including the cost of EVpropulsion assembling the subframe for the motors which isn't free and was some good ol fashioned r&d. So my speculation is 10K$ for 120kw peak system with regen, thats 161hp....should perform well considering you save and extra 1-200lbs of the transmission...


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

Kelly controller costs 699$...120V and 125/250Amp


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> So since the standard motor costs about 1300$ and the recommended Kelly controller costs 700$ (thanks roughrider) then with 4 motors, if you wanted 120kw peak, would approximately cost 8,000$ not including the cost of EVpropulsion assembling the subframe for the motors which isn't free and was some good ol fashioned r&d. So my speculation is 10K$ for 120kw peak system with regen, thats 161hp....should perform well considering you save and extra 1-200lbs of the transmission...


I don't see it working that way. 

First, a decent transaxle can easily be found under 100lbs, so there isn't a big savings there. 

These motors have no cooling fans, so putting four of them together under the hood is going to require some blower setup at a minimum.

There are diminishing returns beyond using two of these motors. An AC31 or AC50 with a small transaxle is likely a better compromise than 4 of these hub motors.

TomA


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

TomA said:


> I don't see it working that way.
> 
> First, a decent transaxle can easily be found under 100lbs, so there isn't a big savings there.
> 
> ...


50kw vs. 120kw??

More accurately compare two AC-50's chained/belted together then running through a transmission...twin AC-50 setups with custom fabrication going to cost you about the same as the above...and with all that torque at 0_rpm you better make sure you have a transaxle strong enough to handle it...

What about a combo setup...

AC50 driving the transmission to the front or rear wheels and 60kw of power from the subframe from EvPropulsion.com for the other two wheels...

110kw/148hp & AWD & power across a broader rpm range???


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## maxvtol (Nov 11, 2009)

One AC50 would put out about 1250 ft lbs of torque to the wheels in 1st gear on my setup, 0 to 25mph would probably go to the AC50. And unless peak power of these hub motors is matched to the top speed of the vehicle, the AC50 could even have a higher top speed, with proper gearing. 

I'd like to see the torque curves vs speed on these motors, peak hp really doesn't tell you much.


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

This pancake motor looks like it has potential!


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

That pancake motor looks interesting, though it looks like it's got no starting torque (The video shows it being hand-started), and it only shows an unloaded run, so there's no torque or drag shown.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

MarkCycle-I think I saw a video of the finished car a while ago, can you fill us in on how it worked out?


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## G-man (Jul 5, 2012)

@Markcycle: HI, I notice you're not using a hub motor with the Miata. What is the issue with hub motors for larger applications, like a car? Is it a cooling issue?


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## G-man (Jul 5, 2012)

markcycle said:


> We are making progress see video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Markcycle: HI, I notice you're not using the hub motor on the Miata directly on the wheel. What is the issue with hub motors for larger applications, like a car? Is it a cooling issue, or an unsprung weight issue?


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