# [EVDL] magnetic alt.



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Every alternator uses magnetic fields, though usually
they are created by a coil and the strength of the
field is controlled to make the alternator output
(on the other 3 coils) deliver about 14V.
It seems you plan to use permanent magnets which
have the problem that the output voltage is linear
with the RPM of the alternator: the faster it spins,
the higher the output...

If you are not afraid to experiment, the easiest way
to charge a 24V pack is to use a 24V alternator,
either by getting one for/from a large truck or by
modifying a 12V alternator so that the output is not
directly fed to the controller but through a divider
(resistors) that will give the controller 14V when the
output is at the level you desire (24-30V)

Now my question is why you want to use an alternator
to charge a pack, what is it that you plan to achieve?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic
alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

call me crazy everyone else does but I have a Goldwing motorcycle I 
converted to electric & I am planing on running it at 72 volts, 3- 24 volt 
40ah GBS ion's . I am going to try 3-24 volt alternators to kept them 
charged, I would post some pictures so U could see what I am doing but I 
can't post any on this site & to busy to take the time to figure all of the 
link stuff out to show U at this time. got to go tell U more about it later 
o ya I have a 3'-1/2" wide by 8'-6" long solar shade that should get a lot 
of solar cells on it to help charge it also!!! just finished welding it all 
up yesterday!!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Every alternator uses magnetic fields, though usually
they are created by a coil and the strength of the
field is controlled to make the alternator output
(on the other 3 coils) deliver about 14V.
It seems you plan to use permanent magnets which
have the problem that the output voltage is linear
with the RPM of the alternator: the faster it spins,
the higher the output...

If you are not afraid to experiment, the easiest way
to charge a 24V pack is to use a 24V alternator,
either by getting one for/from a large truck or by
modifying a 12V alternator so that the output is not
directly fed to the controller but through a divider
(resistors) that will give the controller 14V when the
output is at the level you desire (24-30V)

Now my question is why you want to use an alternator
to charge a pack, what is it that you plan to achieve?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic
alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jack, What are you driving the three alternators with? Please don't say the
wheels... We recomend using an alternator and its internal voltage
regulator to charge a 12 v auxilary battery as that is cheaper than a DC/DC
converter from pack voltage to 12 v. and we drive the alternator from the
traction motor shaft but we do that because it is cheep. The energy to
recharge the traction pack must come from an external source, an outlet at
the home or a solar PV collector of about 10 by 30 feet in size. Unless you
drive in mountain country and only intend the alternators for dynamic
braking going downhill ONLY!
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Founder)
*"**Electric Car Service Shop"*
*[ the Forgotten Infrastructure ]*
* [email protected] <[email protected]> *



> Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > call me crazy everyone else does but I have a Goldwing motorcycle I
> > converted to electric & I am planing on running it at 72 volts, 3- 24 volt
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing - like the guy with the homemade 
motor that he claimed had no back emf...

< Jack, What are you driving the three alternators with? Please don't say the
wheels... >

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

no Dennis not the wheels I am using the ground!!!??? take a guess how!! 
Dennis

-----Original Message----- 
From: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing - like the guy with the homemade
motor that he claimed had no back emf...

< Jack, What are you driving the three alternators with? Please don't say 
the
wheels... >

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If by "magnetic alternator" you're talking about the gadgets that claim to 
give you free energy, or "knock off 30-50% of your electricity bill," take 
it somewhere else. That kind of discussion is not allowed on this list.

>From the EVDL conventions (http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv)

"Avoid posting about overunity devices, magnetic motors, free energy, 
perpetual motion machines, and anything else that appears to violate the 
laws of classical physics. Sorry, those subjects aren't appropriate for the 
EVDL. Try overunity.com instead. Electrifying Times also hosts some articles 
and discussions dealing with these subjects."

If you are talking about a generator you want to use for regenerative 
braking, that's a different matter.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Cor whats wrong with the faster it spends the higher the output? the 
more the better, that is why I am interested in PMA's . I'm definitely not 
afraid to experiment, but I want to try to experiment with the PMA's instead 
of a regular 24 V alternator. Wind generator PMA's start producing voltage 
at 150 RPM and can put out 1100 Amps. Anyway, just trying to pick some 
brains and find some information out for what I need to use to make my three 
alternators on my motorcycle charge up my 72 V battery. So Dennis, if you 
read this too have you figure out how I am going to used the the ground for 
two of the alternator's? I am getting hungary got a go get some hamburgers 
at McDonald's, have not ate all day, been talking to many people. Be back 
later waiting , for replies.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Every alternator uses magnetic fields, though usually
they are created by a coil and the strength of the
field is controlled to make the alternator output
(on the other 3 coils) deliver about 14V.
It seems you plan to use permanent magnets which
have the problem that the output voltage is linear
with the RPM of the alternator: the faster it spins,
the higher the output...

If you are not afraid to experiment, the easiest way
to charge a 24V pack is to use a 24V alternator,
either by getting one for/from a large truck or by
modifying a 12V alternator so that the output is not
directly fed to the controller but through a divider
(resistors) that will give the controller 14V when the
output is at the level you desire (24-30V)

Now my question is why you want to use an alternator
to charge a pack, what is it that you plan to achieve?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic
alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jack,

Please tell us what you plan to do, where does
the energy come from for the alternators to
charge up your pack? 
You said: the ground, but that does not tell us anything.
What will drive the motorcycle when the alternators are
slowing it down to charge your pack? Do you keep the
engine? or do you plan to use the alternators for the
downhill braking where you can regain some of the energy
you put in while climbing the hill?
Or is there another concept that you plan on trying?
We have seen many designs and ideas and we can pretty
good advise you what will work and what not, but first
we need to understand what the problem is that you are
trying to solve with the alternators.

Regarding the PM alternator: there is no problem with
higher output, just that it is difficult to control the
right voltage after you make the varying voltage, that 
is why the alternator with winding to generate the field
is so handy - with a small field controller you set the
correct output voltage over a wide range of speed.
Of course, if you can control speed precisely then the
PM might be slightly more efficient, but if your speed
varies (and it usually does in a vehicle) then the PM
alternator has this as a large disadvantage.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 4:57 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Hello Cor whats wrong with the faster it spends the higher the output?
the more the better, that is why I am interested in PMA's . I'm
definitely not afraid to experiment, but I want to try to experiment
with the PMA's instead of a regular 24 V alternator. Wind generator
PMA's start producing voltage at 150 RPM and can put out 1100 Amps.
Anyway, just trying to pick some brains and find some information out
for what I need to use to make my three alternators on my motorcycle
charge up my 72 V battery. So Dennis, if you read this too have you
figure out how I am going to used the the ground for two of the
alternator's? I am getting hungary got a go get some hamburgers at
McDonald's, have not ate all day, been talking to many people. Be back
later waiting , for replies.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Every alternator uses magnetic fields, though usually they are created
by a coil and the strength of the field is controlled to make the
alternator output (on the other 3 coils) deliver about 14V.
It seems you plan to use permanent magnets which have the problem that
the output voltage is linear with the RPM of the alternator: the faster
it spins, the higher the output...

If you are not afraid to experiment, the easiest way to charge a 24V
pack is to use a 24V alternator, either by getting one for/from a large
truck or by modifying a 12V alternator so that the output is not
directly fed to the controller but through a divider
(resistors) that will give the controller 14V when the output is at the
level you desire (24-30V)

Now my question is why you want to use an alternator to charge a pack,
what is it that you plan to achieve?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic
alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

No, not to worry, David, I'm not talking about any gadget for free energy. 
I'm talking about a regular stock 12 V car alternator that is used to 
recharge and EV battery for electric cars or motorcycles, but 100% electric, 
no gadgets. What I'm talking about is taking an alternator apart, taking the 
rotating part, the stator, putting it a on a press and disassembling it, 
removing the inner windings and the brushes because there is no need for 
them the way it is made, replacing it with two ground ring magnets, the ones 
that are discarded on the big screen TVs in their two speakers, you know, 
the big screens that you always see on the side of the road that everyone is 
throwing out because of being broken, then pressing the stator back together 
and putting it back in the alternator and tightening it all backup. Now we 
have what is called a PMA, which stands for permanent magnet alternator. You 
can either do it yourself if you feel like experimenting and finding the 
right components and also have a press or I do believe I seen someone in 
United states that is actually selling a complete unit. So as you can see, 
this is not some kind of gadget that's used to lower your electric bill. 
It's used to create current to recharge your battery is nothing to do with 
drag racing or anything off-topic. If this is off-topic, then I don't know 
what this group is for, but I can assure you, I don't think it is called a 
generator, . It is still a alternator, but used for 100% full-time 
regenerative power. If you want to put it that way. I hope I clarified the 
problem and you understand what I'm talking 
From: EVDL Administrator
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

If by "magnetic alternator" you're talking about the gadgets that claim to
give you free energy, or "knock off 30-50% of your electricity bill," take
it somewhere else. That kind of discussion is not allowed on this list.

>From the EVDL conventions (http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv)

"Avoid posting about overunity devices, magnetic motors, free energy,
perpetual motion machines, and anything else that appears to violate the
laws of classical physics. Sorry, those subjects aren't appropriate for the
EVDL. Try overunity.com instead. Electrifying Times also hosts some articles
and discussions dealing with these subjects."

If you are talking about a generator you want to use for regenerative
braking, that's a different matter.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Okay Cor, I will attempt to explain this in simple way for you to understand 
this might take some doing. I am just a simple person, but here I go. My 
motorcycle has a prestolite 25 volt dual shaft motor, I believe it is a 6.7 
inch motor, anyway, I plan on running it on a 72 V Curtis controller that I 
just found today and still haven't got it or hooked it up yet, one 
alternator will run off the front shaft, is that possible? I hope so. I know 
so I helped Steve Clunn hook up one off the front shaft on a Ford Ranger 
before so I know it will work and it worked great to, you don't believe me, 
ask Roland I think his alternator works great to. Then I will proceed to 
take the other two alternators or PMA's whatever I use and place them on the 
rear of my motorcycle where the saddlebags are and with the right piece of 
aluminum, that is box shaped 3' by 1" not quite sure of the length yet, but 
approximately a foot and half long, or maybe shorter, then this is where it 
gets tricky. I will use wheels that touched the ground. Not sure of the size 
of the wheels yet, still need to look at a few different sizes of the solid 
wheels that will not go flat. From the alternator on top to the wheel on the 
bottom, inside the box aluminum will have a belt, going from the alternator 
pulley to the pulley on the wheel. It will simply roll on the ground, with 
simple logic should turn the alternator at any speed. I will try differing 
size pulleys, this is where the experimentation will be because I've never 
seen anybody even try this have you? Let me know if you did, and if it does 
or doesn't work because I wouldn't want to waste my time. I got other 
important things to do. I do believe that the PMA's do not have that much 
friction or a lot of drag on them when they are turning. Anyway, that's what 
I meant by saying it can be run off of the ground not off the wheels, but 
power comes from the ground through wheels. I hope I explain this clear 
enough, and I wasn't too complicated. Anyway, let me know what you think. I 
would like to hear some input on this. You two Dennis, I know you've done a 
lot of different things and have a lot of knowledge. I'm kind of new to all 
this electric stuff and this is my first conversion I've done by myself and 
I'm just trying a few things that I think might help me out. And if someone 
would like to see a picture of my Green Thang electric Gold wing. If someone 
can explain to me, and it isn't too long and too difficult how to put a 
picture on some kind of link. I just don't know how to do it yet. Computers 
are really confusing to me still at times, like trying to send a picture 
somewhere that I don't know where it is supposed to go since I can't send 
it to this discussion list by just adding it on as an attached file. Please 
anyone knows more about the PMA's please let me know. Thank you
-----Original Message----- 
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 8:35 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Jack,

Please tell us what you plan to do, where does
the energy come from for the alternators to
charge up your pack?
You said: the ground, but that does not tell us anything.
What will drive the motorcycle when the alternators are
slowing it down to charge your pack? Do you keep the
engine? or do you plan to use the alternators for the
downhill braking where you can regain some of the energy
you put in while climbing the hill?
Or is there another concept that you plan on trying?
We have seen many designs and ideas and we can pretty
good advise you what will work and what not, but first
we need to understand what the problem is that you are
trying to solve with the alternators.

Regarding the PM alternator: there is no problem with
higher output, just that it is difficult to control the
right voltage after you make the varying voltage, that
is why the alternator with winding to generate the field
is so handy - with a small field controller you set the
correct output voltage over a wide range of speed.
Of course, if you can control speed precisely then the
PM might be slightly more efficient, but if your speed
varies (and it usually does in a vehicle) then the PM
alternator has this as a large disadvantage.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 4:57 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Hello Cor whats wrong with the faster it spends the higher the output?
the more the better, that is why I am interested in PMA's . I'm
definitely not afraid to experiment, but I want to try to experiment
with the PMA's instead of a regular 24 V alternator. Wind generator
PMA's start producing voltage at 150 RPM and can put out 1100 Amps.
Anyway, just trying to pick some brains and find some information out
for what I need to use to make my three alternators on my motorcycle
charge up my 72 V battery. So Dennis, if you read this too have you
figure out how I am going to used the the ground for two of the
alternator's? I am getting hungary got a go get some hamburgers at
McDonald's, have not ate all day, been talking to many people. Be back
later waiting , for replies.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Every alternator uses magnetic fields, though usually they are created
by a coil and the strength of the field is controlled to make the
alternator output (on the other 3 coils) deliver about 14V.
It seems you plan to use permanent magnets which have the problem that
the output voltage is linear with the RPM of the alternator: the faster
it spins, the higher the output...

If you are not afraid to experiment, the easiest way to charge a 24V
pack is to use a 24V alternator, either by getting one for/from a large
truck or by modifying a 12V alternator so that the output is not
directly fed to the controller but through a divider
(resistors) that will give the controller 14V when the output is at the
level you desire (24-30V)

Now my question is why you want to use an alternator to charge a pack,
what is it that you plan to achieve?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic
alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Under a no load condition the alternator will require very little to turn but
once ON it will require quite a bit of energy and will drag your vehicle
down if you plan on putting that type of load back into the pack while
driving. You will have a much shorter distance you can drive because you
must use a great deal of energy to power the alternator and then have that
pumped back into the battery. In other words you won't be able to charge
while driving and get longer distances. You will only reduce your initial
range and usually by quite a bit over just using batteries only. If you use
an alternator to keep your 12 volt battery charged and to help power the
lights and blinkers and stuff you can do so but the load required for
charging is much greater. That is why you can put on an alternator on your
ev. They are used only for vehicles power requirements and for keeping the
systems 12 volt battery charged up. That is the only reason they are used.
Even in an automobile they require quite a bit of power to operate under
load and that is usually at low voltages but high amps. Take an alternator
and short it out to represent a load and see how easy it is to turn. 

Go figure out how much energy is required to power an alternator. Just a
typical one for an auto. Nothing fancy. No matter how the alternator or
generator is made it requires power to operate. That uses your battery
energy. Why then use that power to rotate the alternator then put that
resulting lower power back into the battery. Why not just use that power
directly into your motor to run your bike. You will go further per charge
that way. 

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
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View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/magnetic-alt-tp4035022p4035835.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for the input Pete. I've been discussing that idea of running the 
motor off the alternator's with one of my friends already, he suggested a 
switch. Once I got a movein to just flick it on the the alternator's to run 
the motor. Thanks again for the information and the idea, keep them coming 
please. Sooner or later I might figure out something that really works good. 
The more ideas, the better. That's what this discussion group is about right
-----Original Message----- 
From: gottdi
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Under a no load condition the alternator will require very little to turn 
but
once ON it will require quite a bit of energy and will drag your vehicle
down if you plan on putting that type of load back into the pack while
driving. You will have a much shorter distance you can drive because you
must use a great deal of energy to power the alternator and then have that
pumped back into the battery. In other words you won't be able to charge
while driving and get longer distances. You will only reduce your initial
range and usually by quite a bit over just using batteries only. If you use
an alternator to keep your 12 volt battery charged and to help power the
lights and blinkers and stuff you can do so but the load required for
charging is much greater. That is why you can put on an alternator on your
ev. They are used only for vehicles power requirements and for keeping the
systems 12 volt battery charged up. That is the only reason they are used.
Even in an automobile they require quite a bit of power to operate under
load and that is usually at low voltages but high amps. Take an alternator
and short it out to represent a load and see how easy it is to turn.

Go figure out how much energy is required to power an alternator. Just a
typical one for an auto. Nothing fancy. No matter how the alternator or
generator is made it requires power to operate. That uses your battery
energy. Why then use that power to rotate the alternator then put that
resulting lower power back into the battery. Why not just use that power
directly into your motor to run your bike. You will go further per charge
that way.

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/magnetic-alt-tp4035022p4035835.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This kind of setup may help you recover some of the kinetic energy of the 
bike when you slow down or stop (this is regenerative braking or what the 
Europeans call recuperation). In theory, this can extend the range before 
you need to charge. Typically the improvement is 2-10%, but can be a bit 
more than that if your area is extremely hilly.

You probably know this, but if you try to recharge the battery while you are 
driving down the road, you will lose more range than you gain. That's how 
physics works. Whether your alternators have wound fields or PM fields 
makes no difference to speak of in this. A more efficient alternator just 
means you will lose a little less range, but you will still lose. If you 
don't already know this, I can describe an experiment for you to try that 
will show you what I mean.

I don't see the advantage to using the outrigger back wheels. I think it 
will just make the bike handle strangely. Seems to me that you could do 
exactly the same thing by driving the alternators right from the main rear 
wheel, with less extra weight and no weird stability effects. But I ride 
bicycles and E-bikes, not big motorcycles, so maybe I'm missing something 
here.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jack,

Simply put: to run an alternator it requires energy.
More energy goes into the alternator than that the
alternator produces as electric power.
So, if you plan to run your electric motorcycle from
batteries, then attach an alternator to the motor to
feed back into the batteries to recharge them while
normally driving then you will find that the energy
that the alternator deliers back to the batteries is
*less* than the *extra* energy that the motor needs
due to the drag of the alternator.
In other words: you are losing more power by adding
the alternator to the motor and running electric
energy in a loop (battery-motor-alternator-battery)
than when you would only use the battery to drive
the motor without alternator load.

The only point where the alternator might help is
when you need to slow down (braking) or go downhill
and you need to slow the vehicle to avoid going 
faster than you want. This is the moment that you
can switch an alternator to deliver power back to
your battery instead of losing the energy in
friction in your brakes.

Roland will confirm that this is also where he is
using his alternator to remove energy from his
vehicle (slow down) and can use the electric
power that is produced in the alternator(s).

During normal driving it is not adviced to use an
alternator, except to keep an aux battery topped
up if you are not using a DC/DC converter to
charge the aux (12V) battery from the main pack
of batteries.

Hope this clarifies, 

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 8:29 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Thanks for the input Pete. I've been discussing that idea of running the
motor off the alternator's with one of my friends already, he suggested
a switch. Once I got a movein to just flick it on the the alternator's
to run the motor. Thanks again for the information and the idea, keep
them coming please. Sooner or later I might figure out something that
really works good. 
The more ideas, the better. That's what this discussion group is about
right -----Original Message-----
From: gottdi
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Under a no load condition the alternator will require very little to
turn but once ON it will require quite a bit of energy and will drag
your vehicle down if you plan on putting that type of load back into the
pack while driving. You will have a much shorter distance you can drive
because you must use a great deal of energy to power the alternator and
then have that pumped back into the battery. In other words you won't be
able to charge while driving and get longer distances. You will only
reduce your initial range and usually by quite a bit over just using
batteries only. If you use an alternator to keep your 12 volt battery
charged and to help power the lights and blinkers and stuff you can do
so but the load required for charging is much greater. That is why you
can put on an alternator on your ev. They are used only for vehicles
power requirements and for keeping the systems 12 volt battery charged
up. That is the only reason they are used.
Even in an automobile they require quite a bit of power to operate under
load and that is usually at low voltages but high amps. Take an
alternator and short it out to represent a load and see how easy it is
to turn.

Go figure out how much energy is required to power an alternator. Just a
typical one for an auto. Nothing fancy. No matter how the alternator or
generator is made it requires power to operate. That uses your battery
energy. Why then use that power to rotate the alternator then put that
resulting lower power back into the battery. Why not just use that power
directly into your motor to run your bike. You will go further per
charge that way.

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/magnetic-al
t-tp4035022p4035835.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the ideas and information everyone has been talking about. 
It's going to take me quite some time just to read all the information again 
and understand a lot of it, but it gives me a couple good ideas so far. I 
guess for the outriggers. I could actually hook up some kind of way to raise 
or lower them to use them when I need them. Maybe one of you guys might know 
a way when I shut the gas off all the way for stopping that the wheels would 
automatically go down and start charging and help slowing it down till I 
come to a stop, and then when accelerating and the main motor is kept on 
say, cruising down the road on the freeway. They would stay up, but at the 
same time, I could manually switch them to the down position to recharge 
while going down the other side of the mountain after I've got the top. And 
David, I think that outriggers would be much better if designed right than 
trying to run the two alternators off the wheels, the wheels moved a lot 
with the suspension travel, and there's really not a lot of room. But where 
I am planding on putting them. I have a lot of extra room, plus the 
saddlebags will fit right over the top of to keep them out of the elements 
and I'll still have room in the saddlebags, the outriggers can just be 
slightly spring-loaded, which will keep him on the ground and just be a lot 
more simple, at least for me. I'll keep you all informed. However, whatever. 
It works out to be thanks again Jack
-----Original Message----- 
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 11:45 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Jack,

Simply put: to run an alternator it requires energy.
More energy goes into the alternator than that the
alternator produces as electric power.
So, if you plan to run your electric motorcycle from
batteries, then attach an alternator to the motor to
feed back into the batteries to recharge them while
normally driving then you will find that the energy
that the alternator deliers back to the batteries is
*less* than the *extra* energy that the motor needs
due to the drag of the alternator.
In other words: you are losing more power by adding
the alternator to the motor and running electric
energy in a loop (battery-motor-alternator-battery)
than when you would only use the battery to drive
the motor without alternator load.

The only point where the alternator might help is
when you need to slow down (braking) or go downhill
and you need to slow the vehicle to avoid going
faster than you want. This is the moment that you
can switch an alternator to deliver power back to
your battery instead of losing the energy in
friction in your brakes.

Roland will confirm that this is also where he is
using his alternator to remove energy from his
vehicle (slow down) and can use the electric
power that is produced in the alternator(s).

During normal driving it is not adviced to use an
alternator, except to keep an aux battery topped
up if you are not using a DC/DC converter to
charge the aux (12V) battery from the main pack
of batteries.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 8:29 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Thanks for the input Pete. I've been discussing that idea of running the
motor off the alternator's with one of my friends already, he suggested
a switch. Once I got a movein to just flick it on the the alternator's
to run the motor. Thanks again for the information and the idea, keep
them coming please. Sooner or later I might figure out something that
really works good.
The more ideas, the better. That's what this discussion group is about
right -----Original Message-----
From: gottdi
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 10:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Under a no load condition the alternator will require very little to
turn but once ON it will require quite a bit of energy and will drag
your vehicle down if you plan on putting that type of load back into the
pack while driving. You will have a much shorter distance you can drive
because you must use a great deal of energy to power the alternator and
then have that pumped back into the battery. In other words you won't be
able to charge while driving and get longer distances. You will only
reduce your initial range and usually by quite a bit over just using
batteries only. If you use an alternator to keep your 12 volt battery
charged and to help power the lights and blinkers and stuff you can do
so but the load required for charging is much greater. That is why you
can put on an alternator on your ev. They are used only for vehicles
power requirements and for keeping the systems 12 volt battery charged
up. That is the only reason they are used.
Even in an automobile they require quite a bit of power to operate under
load and that is usually at low voltages but high amps. Take an
alternator and short it out to represent a load and see how easy it is
to turn.

Go figure out how much energy is required to power an alternator. Just a
typical one for an auto. Nothing fancy. No matter how the alternator or
generator is made it requires power to operate. That uses your battery
energy. Why then use that power to rotate the alternator then put that
resulting lower power back into the battery. Why not just use that power
directly into your motor to run your bike. You will go further per
charge that way.

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/magnetic-al
t-tp4035022p4035835.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Jack,

One thing to remember is the charging and discharging direction in a 
battery. Discharging of a battery is from the positive post to the negative 
post. The charging of the battery is from the negative post to the positive 
post.

For example in a lead battery, the positive plates are Lead Oxide (PB02) and 
the negative plates are Pure Lead (PB). The electrolyte is H2SO4.

A charge battery has PB pure lead negative plates the positive plates are 
PBO2 that has Lead Oxide mix in with power lead. The electrolyte is H2SO4 
that has a specific gravity of 1.300 when 5 parts of water and 1 part of 
1.800 sulfuric is mix together HOT.

When the battery discharges, the current flow is from the positive which 
transfer some of the Oxide (0) off the positive plates to the electrolyte 
which now becomes H2S04 + O. One part of O2 or O combines with the H2 or 
becomes H2O or makes more water diluting the electrolyte.

Some of the sulfate or the SO4 from the electrolyte is transfer to the 
negative plates which now becomes PBSO4. If you look at a negative plate 
that has been fully discharge, this looks like a white coating that looks 
likes gypsum. If left on too long its acts like a insulator.

A full discharge electrolyte may read 1.000 at which is 100% State of Charge 
(SOC).

Charging this type of battery, the current now flows from the negative 
plates which now releases the SO4 off the negative plates and combines with 
the H2S04 and releases the Oxide that goes to the positive plate which 
increases the electrolyte specific gravity from 1.000 to 1.275 at 80F.

So you see, the discharging flow of current is from the positive to the 
electrolyte to the negative and the charging flow of current is from 
negative to the electrolyte to the positive.

Conclusion: You cannot charge a battery at the exact same time you 
discharge it. You cannot make electricity go both ways at the same time.

You can discharge and charge at different time. While the load is off, you 
can charge in one direction (negative to positive) and while the load is on, 
you can discharge in the other (positive to negative).

Lets say I drive my EV for 1 hour using 50 ampere hour (AH), I then could 
charge it at 50 amps for about a hour to bring the SOC up to 100%.

I can shorten this time, to 30 mins drive, 30 mins charge and so on.

Now anytime the drive motor becomes a generator, this puts a additional load 
on the motor which acts a Regenerative Braking to slow your EV down.

I use this method to slow down my EV on steep icy hills and coasting to a 
stop.

Roland










----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.


> No, not to worry, David, I'm not talking about any gadget for free energy.
> I'm talking about a regular stock 12 V car alternator that is used to
> recharge and EV battery for electric cars or motorcycles, but 100% 
> electric,
> no gadgets. What I'm talking about is taking an alternator apart, taking 
> the
> rotating part, the stator, putting it a on a press and disassembling it,
> removing the inner windings and the brushes because there is no need for
> them the way it is made, replacing it with two ground ring magnets, the 
> ones
> that are discarded on the big screen TVs in their two speakers, you know,
> the big screens that you always see on the side of the road that everyone 
> is
> throwing out because of being broken, then pressing the stator back 
> together
> and putting it back in the alternator and tightening it all backup. Now we
> have what is called a PMA, which stands for permanent magnet alternator. 
> You
> can either do it yourself if you feel like experimenting and finding the
> right components and also have a press or I do believe I seen someone in
> United states that is actually selling a complete unit. So as you can 
> see,
> this is not some kind of gadget that's used to lower your electric bill.
> It's used to create current to recharge your battery is nothing to do with
> drag racing or anything off-topic. If this is off-topic, then I don't know
> what this group is for, but I can assure you, I don't think it is called a
> generator, . It is still a alternator, but used for 100% full-time
> regenerative power. If you want to put it that way. I hope I clarified the
> problem and you understand what I'm talking
> From: EVDL Administrator
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:54 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.
>
> If by "magnetic alternator" you're talking about the gadgets that claim to
> give you free energy, or "knock off 30-50% of your electricity bill," take
> it somewhere else. That kind of discussion is not allowed on this list.
>
> >From the EVDL conventions (http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv)
>
> "Avoid posting about overunity devices, magnetic motors, free energy,
> perpetual motion machines, and anything else that appears to violate the
> laws of classical physics. Sorry, those subjects aren't appropriate for 
> the
> EVDL. Try overunity.com instead. Electrifying Times also hosts some 
> articles
> and discussions dealing with these subjects."
>
> If you are talking about a generator you want to use for regenerative
> braking, that's a different matter.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Okay Roland, I'm pretty sure I understand what you're talking about. U can't 
be taking out and putting in at the same time right. So how would this work. 
If I had 6-24 V packs of 40 amp hours. Two sets of 72 V each in my bike, and 
used the first three packs of 72 V to run my motor, my alternators could be 
charging up the the second set of three batteries. Then went the first set 
got low I could then switch to the second set of batteries that were fully 
charged and start charging the first ones all over again. Etc. etc. just 
keep going back and forth. Wouldn't that work better. Where there's a will, 
there's got to be a better way, like Bill D said for over 100 years, people 
have been trying to use alternators on wheels to continuously go but it 
just doesn't work, but I am thinking more on the line after 100 years we 
should be able to come up with something that works a little better than 
what they had and used a 100 years ago. Anyway, I guess I'll just keep 
trying, but switching the batteries back and forth sound like a good idea to 
me, what do you think think Roland? Might that work?
-----Original Message----- 
From: Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 1:28 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

Hello Jack,

One thing to remember is the charging and discharging direction in a
battery. Discharging of a battery is from the positive post to the negative
post. The charging of the battery is from the negative post to the positive
post.

For example in a lead battery, the positive plates are Lead Oxide (PB02) and
the negative plates are Pure Lead (PB). The electrolyte is H2SO4.

A charge battery has PB pure lead negative plates the positive plates are
PBO2 that has Lead Oxide mix in with power lead. The electrolyte is H2SO4
that has a specific gravity of 1.300 when 5 parts of water and 1 part of
1.800 sulfuric is mix together HOT.

When the battery discharges, the current flow is from the positive which
transfer some of the Oxide (0) off the positive plates to the electrolyte
which now becomes H2S04 + O. One part of O2 or O combines with the H2 or
becomes H2O or makes more water diluting the electrolyte.

Some of the sulfate or the SO4 from the electrolyte is transfer to the
negative plates which now becomes PBSO4. If you look at a negative plate
that has been fully discharge, this looks like a white coating that looks
likes gypsum. If left on too long its acts like a insulator.

A full discharge electrolyte may read 1.000 at which is 100% State of Charge
(SOC).

Charging this type of battery, the current now flows from the negative
plates which now releases the SO4 off the negative plates and combines with
the H2S04 and releases the Oxide that goes to the positive plate which
increases the electrolyte specific gravity from 1.000 to 1.275 at 80F.

So you see, the discharging flow of current is from the positive to the
electrolyte to the negative and the charging flow of current is from
negative to the electrolyte to the positive.

Conclusion: You cannot charge a battery at the exact same time you
discharge it. You cannot make electricity go both ways at the same time.

You can discharge and charge at different time. While the load is off, you
can charge in one direction (negative to positive) and while the load is on,
you can discharge in the other (positive to negative).

Lets say I drive my EV for 1 hour using 50 ampere hour (AH), I then could
charge it at 50 amps for about a hour to bring the SOC up to 100%.

I can shorten this time, to 30 mins drive, 30 mins charge and so on.

Now anytime the drive motor becomes a generator, this puts a additional load
on the motor which acts a Regenerative Braking to slow your EV down.

I use this method to slow down my EV on steep icy hills and coasting to a
stop.

Roland










----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.


> No, not to worry, David, I'm not talking about any gadget for free energy.
> I'm talking about a regular stock 12 V car alternator that is used to
> recharge and EV battery for electric cars or motorcycles, but 100% 
> electric,
> no gadgets. What I'm talking about is taking an alternator apart, taking 
> the
> rotating part, the stator, putting it a on a press and disassembling it,
> removing the inner windings and the brushes because there is no need for
> them the way it is made, replacing it with two ground ring magnets, the 
> ones
> that are discarded on the big screen TVs in their two speakers, you know,
> the big screens that you always see on the side of the road that everyone 
> is
> throwing out because of being broken, then pressing the stator back 
> together
> and putting it back in the alternator and tightening it all backup. Now we
> have what is called a PMA, which stands for permanent magnet alternator. 
> You
> can either do it yourself if you feel like experimenting and finding the
> right components and also have a press or I do believe I seen someone in
> United states that is actually selling a complete unit. So as you can 
> see,
> this is not some kind of gadget that's used to lower your electric bill.
> It's used to create current to recharge your battery is nothing to do with
> drag racing or anything off-topic. If this is off-topic, then I don't know
> what this group is for, but I can assure you, I don't think it is called a
> generator, . It is still a alternator, but used for 100% full-time
> regenerative power. If you want to put it that way. I hope I clarified the
> problem and you understand what I'm talking
> From: EVDL Administrator
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 7:54 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.
>
> If by "magnetic alternator" you're talking about the gadgets that claim to
> give you free energy, or "knock off 30-50% of your electricity bill," take
> it somewhere else. That kind of discussion is not allowed on this list.
>
> >From the EVDL conventions (http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv)
>
> "Avoid posting about overunity devices, magnetic motors, free energy,
> perpetual motion machines, and anything else that appears to violate the
> laws of classical physics. Sorry, those subjects aren't appropriate for 
> the
> EVDL. Try overunity.com instead. Electrifying Times also hosts some 
> articles
> and discussions dealing with these subjects."
>
> If you are talking about a generator you want to use for regenerative
> braking, that's a different matter.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jack, I suggest that you try an experiment before you get too far into this 
project.

Get a car or other 12v battery in good shape, an alternator or generator 
with its regulator, and an old starter or other 12 volt motor. (This will 
probably work best with old car parts, since I think that some modern 
alternators want to talk to a vehicle computer when charging the battery.) 

Rig up a mount for the starter/motor and alternator so you can belt them 
together. Charge the battery completely with a good external battery 
charger. Run the starter/motor with the battery while the alternator is 
connected to the battery. Run a timer and see how long it takes to run the 
battery down. (It WILL run down.) 

Charge the battery again. Remove the belt so the starter/motor runs and the 
alternator just sits there. Disconnect it from the battery if you want. 
See how long it takes to run the battery down. 

When you compare the times, you should have your answer as to whether this 
scheme works. 

If you want the easy way out, I'll tell you what happens. The setup above 
will actually drain the battery FASTER with the alternator running. It will 
run for less time. It doesn't matter whether the alternator is field type 
or permanent magnet. There's no such thing as free energy, or a free lunch, 
for that matter. 

But if you're convinced that it will work on your EV and don't think you 
need the experiment above, by all means, go ahead and try it. Let us know 
how it goes. Who knows, maybe you can invent what engineers and scientists 
have long since determined is impossible. 

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack wrote:
> > Hello Cor whats wrong with the faster it spends the higher the output? the
> > more the better, that is why I am interested in PMA's . I'm definitely not
> > afraid to experiment, but I want to try to experiment with the PMA's instead
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Good day everyone, I hope you're all having a great Sunday. I just wanted to 
thank everyone for all the input and information that everyone's been taking 
the time to patiently trying to explain to me in the different scenarios in 
what I'm attempting to try to accomplish. It looks like I have a lot of work 
cut out for me if I plan on attempting to make anything that will work, 
scene nobody else in the last hundred years can or has made it work. The 
only good thing I got going for me is I won't be wasting a lot of money, 
because I don't have a lot of money to waste, but I do have a lot of time 
and will still keep trying to make something work because can't is not in my 
vocabulary my Dad taught me that before he died, so until I die I'll keep 
trying, be it with the alternator or generator, solar, wind, whatever it 
takes. I know for sure I'm not Mr. Tesla, not even close in brain mass or 
intelligence but someday somebody's got to figure out a way to get maybe not 
free energy, but very cheap energy maybe. It's too bad everybody kept 
telling Tesla how crazy he was or he might have shared his little box with 
us and we would not be burning our brains out trying to figure a better way! 
So do you guys think wind generators create too much drag also? Now all I 
need to do is figure out how to get my EV motorcycle to run without burning 
up another controller, the first important thing I learned is I need a fuse 
between the battery and controller!!!! I really dislike being a virgin 
EV'er. Thanks again for all your information and help. It looks like maybe I 
might be your new EV friend as soon as I get my EV running, Jack
-----Original Message----- 
From: Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 12:35 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.



> Jack wrote:
> > Hello Cor whats wrong with the faster it spends the higher the output? the
> > more the better, that is why I am interested in PMA's . I'm definitely not
> > afraid to experiment, but I want to try to experiment with the PMA's
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hay Jack,
Call me on the on the phone, You know I won't lie to you.
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Founder)
*"**Electric Car Service Shop"* PH: 1(863)944-9913
*[ the Forgotten Infrastructure ]*
*[email protected] <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *
(Adviser)* EVTI-EVA Education Chapter*



> Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Have anyone on the list used a magnetic alternator? Will a magnetic
> > alternator charge a 24 volt ion pack?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 13 Nov 2011 at 14:05, Jack wrote:
> 
> > I do have a lot of time and will still keep trying to make something
> > work because can't is not in my vocabulary my Dad taught me that before
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Probably the most effective "personal experience" way to demonstrate this
is the old bicycle headlight generators. A little permanent magnet
generator that clips to your fork, you flip a lever and it tilts, putting a
little serrated drive wheel on the generator against the sidewall of your
tire. This is very close to the concept you're describing, but in this
case *you* are the power source.

Anyone old enough to remember these generators also remembers how much
harder it was to pedal when they were engaged. And they were just powering
a dinky headlight.

Tromley's 2nd Law: Everything comes from somewhere.

Chris
LeSled is for sale!
http://www.evalbum.com/274



> Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Good day everyone, I hope you're all having a great Sunday. I just wanted
> > to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dave,
Excellent explanation. I replied to Jack's post the other day but
luckily it was too large and the system kicked it back.
I had some other ideas and will try to keep them short-ish.
Jack mentioned motorcycle, electric drive, and solar among other ideas.
What if a person built a motorcycle that they would enjoy, battery
powered. Then added solar to the top surface and one side surface. A
second kick stand could be added for longer stops in the daytime that
was oriented to make the bike lean on its side to expose more of the
solar to the sun, or you could put an end cap on the handle bars and lay
it way over. You could add a tiny onboard charger for 120 v ac outlets,
or have a charger at work, home, friend's house etc... Flooded lead acid
would not be good as they might leak electrolyte when at an angle, and
the weight would be hard to get upright to ride off. Lithium batteries,
and a drive motor that was installed low in the frame to allow the bike
to be laid over and set upright easily. Ok, what if the side solar panel
was on a hinge and you just unlatch it and prop it up to receive the
sun. That would be easier.
What if the motorcycle has such a wide rear tire that it did not need a
kick stand at rest? The upper facing surfaces could be solar. You just
ride it, and park it in the sun. Replace the seat and handle bar grips
often as they weather. It would be hard to turn such a bike, and lean.
What if the motorcycle had very nice looking parts and such a high
quality finish that it looked like it belonged at a car show. Then you
put solar panels on most of the surfaces as is practical. Then in your
drive way you have the reflective surface like at a car show when they
display the finished underside of the car. Or, you buy a used satellite
dish, the huge ones. Paint that with reflective paint, put it on the
ground and build a ramp to park the bike over it. At work you roll out
your reflective blanket in the parking lot and park over it.
Or a three wheeled motorcycle with a large flat surface of solar panels.

Alan, go take your meds. There, I said it first.

Have a great day!
Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Dave Davidson
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 2:28 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] magnetic alt.

^Jack,

^In simple terms, every time you convert energy from one form to
another, you get some losses. 
(snip)

^Dave


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Alan Brinkman wrote:
> 
> > What if a person built a motorcycle that they would enjoy, battery
> > powered. Then added solar to the top surface and one side surface.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Alan Brinkman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > What if a person built a motorcycle that they would enjoy, battery
> > powered. Then added solar to the top surface and one side surface.
> ...


----------

