# Conversion for 1965 Land Rover Series III



## 57Chevy (Jan 31, 2020)

There's an electric landrover group on FB, lots have there


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

xmorera said:


> Hello,
> 
> Has anyone here successfully converted an old Land Rover successfully? Are there any EV kits available? How hard would it be? It is probably the same effort as converting an old Jeep or Land Cruiser
> 
> Any help is really appreciated.


Hi I am working on an 1970 series 2a 88" Landie. I have some struggle with the choice of transmission right now. In case you want to ask or share something?


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

I’m resto-modding a 1960 SWB and here are some options I’ve come up with…









I like the LT230 transfer case because it is very versatile - hi/low, locking diff, many ratio options. But then again a dual motor would be nice 😊


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## esk (Feb 24, 2016)

Hi,

I converted two Series III Land Rovers into Electric, both with Oneton Transferboxes and without Main Gearbox (the all over ratio is 7,1 long and 15,5 short and it works really good). If You like, You can get more informations on my little Website: 

blackcockatoos.wordpress.com

jens


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Chris_W said:


> I’m resto-modding a 1960 SWB and here are some options I’ve come up with…
> View attachment 126309
> 
> 
> I like the LT230 transfer case because it is very versatile - hi/low, locking diff, many ratio options. But then again a dual motor would be nice 😊


Hi Chris, thanks for sharing! 
I also like the double motor version but I think you get very short prop shafts if you mount them in a row. I think it is possible to mount them with longer if the rear axle is turned upside down. One on the right side facing forward and on the left side facing backwards. Like a cross.
The LT 230 transfer also looks nice with upsides as you mention + handbrake. What reduction gear are you planing to have? (1,9:1, Torque box?)
I am also looking at changing the stock Leaf gear ratio from 8:1 to 4:1 or even 3:1 as an option, With an reduced diff if possible. I am trying to find a company interested and able do the work. 
If not possible I think I go for the LT 230 with Torque box in between. (I am also hoping to fit the Leaf battery in one box under the hood. It will be tight, I know...)


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

esk said:


> Hi,
> 
> I converted two Series III Land Rovers into Electric, both with Oneton Transferboxes and without Main Gearbox (the all over ratio is 7,1 long and 15,5 short and it works really good). If You like, You can get more informations on my little Website:
> 
> ...


Hi Jens, nice work and thanks for sharing!
I see in the 1.0 that you connect the motor direct to the transfer box. A few questions pop up in my head that you might be able to answer. 
How wide is your motor? It must be pretty slim to fit to the transfer case I guess? (My Leaf motor doesn't fit to the original gear box but maybe to a LT230)
Do you have any reduction gearbox in between motor and transfer box or do you run it direct? How high can you rev it in that case?
Tor


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Chris_W said:


> I’m resto-modding a 1960 SWB and here are some options I’ve come up with…
> I like the LT230 transfer case because it is very versatile - hi/low, locking diff, many ratio options. But then again a dual motor would be nice 😊


Hi again Chris,
Your torque table really helps allot! 🤩
When looking at it again I understand you might not have any reduction gear in between and limit the max rev instead, right? (about 5500 rpm) It should give enough or same torque as original 4479 at 1 low. This is great even though I love torque. But maybe I shouldn't worry to much about it... ? See also that you are planning to use the newer 150hp 320Nm Leaf motor? Right?

I was dissing the two motor solution because I thought I had to wait for the 3:1 Torque box, they are currently working on. But looking at your figures and calculating with 2*250 Nm *1,9*4,7 I end up with 4.465 which should be enough?? Or what do you think? 3:1 =7050 Nm is madness!! maybe?? 😵 (Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not an mechanical engineer...) And a top speed of 168 km/h @ 10k rpm, which I will never use. I will not run it at higher revs than 6000 rpm (100 km/h) most likely. Then maybe I can use the Black box which is cheaper... Thinking loud now.... 😏


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Elektrotor said:


> Hi again Chris,
> Your torque table really helps allot! 🤩
> When looking at it again I understand you might not have any reduction gear in between and limit the max rev instead, right? (about 5500 rpm) It should give enough or same torque as original 4479 at 1 low. This is great even though I love torque. But maybe I shouldn't worry to much about it... ? See also that you are planning to use the newer 150hp 320Nm Leaf motor? Right?
> 
> ...


That model is with drive shafts in stock position. I think there is plenty of room….
The thing you have to watch also is axle strength. Series are well known for snapping them🤔


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Elektrotor said:


> Hi Jens, nice work and thanks for sharing!
> I see in the 1.0 that you connect the motor direct to the transfer box. A few questions pop up in my head that you might be able to answer.
> How wide is your motor? It must be pretty slim to fit to the transfer case I guess? (My Leaf motor doesn't fit to the original gear box but maybe to a LT230)
> Do you have any reduction gearbox in between motor and transfer box or do you run it direct? How high can you rev it in that case?
> Tor


I don’t have a motor yet but do have a LT230 with 1.6 output so I can’t confirm fit. My plan is to mount the motor through the PTO so there is no centre tunnel and put the motor under the seat ( nice and clean)?

I think the LT230 has a 5,000 RPM limit so I might need the 1.2 gears if I want drive it on the highway?


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Hi, I have bought a LT230 box now and made a rough line up in my old chassis. (I have a new waiting but I do all the mock-up work in the old one.) When putting the motor behind the transfer case it ends up close to the middle seat. I think it needs to be lowered even more. Did lay it down even more but it is still very tight. After all it seems like the old 88" isn't as roomy as I first thought...  Off cause it gets a little better if I remove the hand brake drum and replace it with a disc brake.
I will try to find a company who is able to change the Nissan gearbox from 8,1:1 to 3,5:1 or similar if possible?? This can be followed on the new thread I will start now. LR 88" series 2A.


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Wow, it looks like you’re really going for it 👍👍

Really interested in the mating of the EM57 and the LT230
Does the motor fit on the front input? Thought it would be really close…
My LT230 didn’t come with a drum brake so I would go with a disc anyway. Wondering if the motor could be rotated 90 degrees to give you more room?

Anyway, I’ll be following your posts with great interest…


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Nice work so far, I'm about to start a build thread for converting my 1961 Series 2! It already has an LT230 transfer box / permanent 4WD which it has been running for years now, I'm going for a Hyper 9 setup i think.

I 3D printed a Hyper 9 motor at 1:1 scale so i can poke and throw it about:









Here's a pic with the 'wrong end' stuck into the LT230 - the correct face also fits but i don't have a pic. I'm in the process of drawing up a shaft adaptor and a miniature adapter plate to connect the two together and can get them machined then.










in fact, i may start my build / design thread tonight.
Cheers!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Chris_W said:


> My plan is to mount the motor through the PTO so there is no centre tunnel and put the motor under the seat ( nice and clean)?


I saw that in the drawing and thought it was an interesting approach. If the space between the frame rails in the middle of the wheelbase wouldn't fit any of the battery anyway, this is a clever way to free up space in the engine bay and transmission tunnel.


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

brian_ said:


> I saw that in the drawing and thought it was an interesting approach. If the space between the frame rails in the middle of the wheelbase wouldn't fit any of the battery anyway, this is a clever way to free up space in the engine bay and transmission tunnel.


Thanks Brian. I makes it nicer for middle passenger too, but unfortunately I can’t take all the credit…


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## esk (Feb 24, 2016)

Elektrotor said:


> Hi Jens, nice work and thanks for sharing!
> I see in the 1.0 that you connect the motor direct to the transfer box. A few questions pop up in my head that you might be able to answer.
> How wide is your motor? It must be pretty slim to fit to the transfer case I guess? (My Leaf motor doesn't fit to the original gear box but maybe to a LT230)
> Do you have any reduction gearbox in between motor and transfer box or do you run it direct? How high can you rev it in that case?
> Tor


Hi Tor,

the Siemens Motor is 245mm wide and yes, hence it was really tricky to fit on the transfer case. There is no reduction gear between, but the one ton transferbox comes with 1,53:1 ratio (long). At 100 km/h the motor turns a little less than 5000 rpm. I think, the combination of the leaf em 57 and a lt230 (with 1,667 ratio) will run smoothly. Yet according to Germany ´s street legal rules it is not allowed to use a electric motor with more permanent power than the original petrol engine... 
Jens


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Jaunt Motors has some absolutely beautiful EV conversions of various Land Rovers. I believe they use Netgain motors. Brushless would be cooler.



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_LEeMHG6GuQ0wUkukt_IXg


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## Robertoal (1 mo ago)

Firstly I love the innovative minds on this forum! I would therefore love to pick your brains about In hub motors..
Goal: build an series 3 EV as simply and cheaply as possible with a range about 50-80km (would be a summer cruiser here in the Dordogne; roofless green laning in an LR S3 EV is a dream right?)
I don't want a lot of horspower, top speed of 80km/h is perfect and although 4wd is nice, it is not mandatory especially with some nice tires.
I found this product from QS motors for E.3500 (Complete kit without battery and cables)
For 100km range i only need 17kwh battery (Thanks ESK for this information!) 2x times this one pre built with BMS etc. should suffice? (96v and 400 amp dicharge) E.5000 for 20KWH
Charger like this one: E.550
Cables, mounting brackets, misc: E.1000
Rebuild the mounting axle of the motor so it can be bolted onto the location of the axle stubs.
Motor is including brake system if I understand correctly. The mounting bracket for the calliper should be custom made.

So; arround 10K with all new parts?

Pro's:

Easy to install with the only a couple things to be custom made: The axle stub and mounting bracket for the brakes, mounting of the batteries. (althought they seem to fit perfectly under the seat?)
Total should be lighter than stock without engine, transfer box, exhaust, diffs, axles, etc. (arround 400kg stock I think?)
0 parts that can potentially leak (Like diffs, engine, etc)
Reliable?
Cheap compared to Leaf or tesla conversions?
Easy to expand to 4wd, with double the range.

Con's:

Unsprung weight is quite a bit higher.. although i doubt you will feel this on a solid axle vehicle like this?
Prebuilt batteries are expensive.
Need some very well build axle stubs that can handle the weight of the car.

Questions unaswered:

Weight baring capacity electric motors..
Durability
How much power do we need to have a car that can do 80km/h and have a decent acceleration? 20kw? 40kw?

Quite the story.. but am I on to something? Or are there some glaring issues I missed?
I would love to hear your input!

Greetings from France!


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Robertoal said:


> Firstly I love the innovative minds on this forum! I would therefore love to pick your brains about In hub motors..
> Goal: build an series 3 EV as simply and cheaply as possible with a range about 50-80km (would be a summer cruiser here in the Dordogne; roofless green laning in an LR S3 EV is a dream right?)
> I don't want a lot of horspower, top speed of 80km/h is perfect and although 4wd is nice, it is not mandatory especially with some nice tires.
> I found this product from QS motors for E.3500 (Complete kit without battery and cables)
> ...


Hi Robert, first I must say that you are really innovative and thinking outside of the box! I would love to see a Land Rover with "real" four wheel drive!
I think you might have an challenge to make it as rough and tough as Land Rovers originally are. It is close to an tractor for a reason. Just as you mention. Will it be weight baring and durable with the Ali-Express hub motors? When it comes to power I think you need at least as much power as the LR originally had. 50-60 hp.
Greetings from Sweden


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Robertoal said:


> For 100km range i only need 17kwh battery


For a typical modern EV that would be correct, but when pushing a barn door through the air on off-road tires 17 kWh might not be enough for 100 km.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Robertoal said:


> Motor is including brake system if I understand correctly. The mounting bracket for the calliper should be custom made.


The brake rotors are supplied, but calipers are not, so you would need both the brackets and the calipers that mount on them. The listing says "u could use original brake calipers", but calipers must fit the thickness and the diameter of the rotors, and does a Series III Land Rover even have calipers?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Robertoal said:


> Questions unaswered:
> 
> Weight baring capacity electric motors..


The listing has reasonably complete motor specs, but no information (beyond the dimensioned drawing) about the mechanical specifications. Hub and bearing load capacities are significant considerations, especially since these hub-motor units are intended for a very light car and the proposed project is heavier and has large tires (which increase bearing loads when the vehicle is cornering).


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Robertoal said:


> Questions unaswered:
> 
> ...
> ...
> How much power do we need to have a car that can do 80km/h and have a decent acceleration? 20kw? 40kw?


To just maintain 80 km/h the vehicle will need at least 15 kW, but to accelerate to that speed in any reasonable time will need much more. 

Another concern is power available at low speed. Power is the product of torque and speed, so less power is needed at lower speed for the rate of acceleration or grade climbing ability; for starting off from a standstill, you only need to consider torque to the wheels at zero motor speed. 

A normal EV has gearing with a substantial speed reduction ratio between the motor and the wheels (for example, about 8:1 for a Nissan Leaf and 10:1 or more for a Tesla), and the speed reduction ratio is also the torque multiplication ratio. So the 320 N⋅m motor output of a Nissan Leaf is multiplied by 8 to be about 2500 N⋅m at the wheels. These hub-motors are specified at "about 350N⋅m" peak, so 700 N⋅m for two or 1400 N⋅m for four... and that's only briefly before the motor overheats and the controller must reduce current and torque. These motors look just adequate for a small car, and that's the suggested application, but a Land Rover is unlikely to be acceptable with them.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Brian's already listed a few major concerns, like weight capacity of the bearings and structure.

Those brakes are too tiny for a LR and would never pass an inspection/stopping_test at motorway speeds.

When the Chinese say "car", they refer to golf carts and NEVs. 10-20mph stuff for old people in resorts or for use inside factories.

That 8kW is peak motor power, and they usually round UP optimistically in my observation...I'm guessing you'd be lucky to see 2kW continuous from an air cooled hub motor like those, if even that much from them, and with their amateur-hour direct connection of brake rotors to the motor case, you might completely shut the motor down after one high speed stop on a full battery (no regen possible) due to motor overheat.

Use of these motors is epic fail in the making, imo, but if you do decide to proceed, please report the build and testing results here. I love being corrected or put in my place with facts...part of learning. Call me arrogant, but I seriously doubt this will get you on a motorway and your range will be limited by motor overheat to maybe getting around the block.


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