# ultimate motor & controller combo



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Performance like an average ICE is certainly not ultimate anything. Even my budget lead build beats that.

I think I could settle for a Shiva and Warp 11. That should be adequate for either a 2500 or 3500 lbs car.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Yea, ultimate was the wrong choice of words, and that shiva/warp combo would do nicely in my metro. There are some really sharp people on this forum, and I think we could get some good reference here, since the motor controller pick is such a popular subject. Newcomers are always inquiring about this with the above listed parameters in mind, and then they move on to more specific ones as they learn more. I am thinking of my next build am curious what the general concensus is as well.


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## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

Question is, would a 9" warp fit? If so go for it ! 
Measure twice, order once.  
I would couple it with a soliton JR or Soliton 1, depending on budget.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Mk4gti, you got the right idea of what I was trying to get going... would you use the warp 9 for both weights? Jr for 2500 and soliton1 for 3500?


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## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

evmetro said:


> Mk4gti, you got the right idea of what I was trying to get going... would you use the warp 9 for both weights? Jr for 2500 and soliton1 for 3500?


Yeah I would go with a soliton 1 if you go for a 3500lb car.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I think a Warp 9 would do great for both. My bug's around 2700 lbs and does just fine with an underpowered 6.7" motor.

I don't think these things can be generalized too much though. Specific requirements are always a factor. Not just how heavy the car is, but also things like how fast you need to go, for how long. A high speed freeway commuting brick may need things bumped up a grade, or extra cooling etc.


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

Something from UQM or MetricMind. What the heck, it's only play money, right?

Realistically, I've been quite pleased with a 2800# car, 20kWh pack, 750a controller (turned down to 500a battery, 650a motor) and a Warp9. Other than the long term worry about brush dust voltage leaks and flinging balancing putty, it's a sweet combo.


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

Seems to me the ac-50 with the curtis 650a controller would be perfect for the 2500 lb car. Not terribly expensive, should give descent performance, etc. 

Probably have to stick with a DC setup for the 3500 lb car if you want descent performance without breaking the bank though.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

A Zilla Z2k-EHV and 2 Impulse 9 motors with the shafts coupled should punch an EV around pretty good with a 100 cell LiFePO4 pack. Plenty of commutator area to ditch the transmission.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2500lbs: Soliton Jr + Kostov 11 250V
3500lbs: Soliton1 + Warp11HV

Both options will utilize the capability of the controller fully. Also, 20-30kWhr LiFePo4 pack is a perfect fit for 100 cells (of 60AH or 100AH), yielding 320V nominal, 340V right after charge - perfect for Solitons. Under heavy acceleration, will sag to 280-290V - perfect for these motors (rated for 250V and 288V, respectively).

I run the first combo in my Fiat conversion, and we use the second combo in all our BMW 3 series prototypes.

Hope this helps.

Valery


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Well, you guys know where I sit on this one. Brushless PMDC all the way baby.

2500lbs = Scott Drive 100
3500lbs = Scott Drive 200

Water-cooled, regen, ZERO maintenance or break-in, monster shaft, higher efficiency, more continuous power. What's not to like?

ooooh, can't wait to watch my reputation tank on this suggestion.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Still waiting to see this sucker work. If it is a go I'd be very interested in buying. I am on the fence with the new batch of siemens motors on the market. 

So when will we be treated to a good demo of these and how and where to get them? 

Pete


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ruckus said:


> Well, you guys know where I sit on this one. Brushless PMDC all the way baby.
> 
> 2500lbs = Scott Drive 100
> 3500lbs = Scott Drive 200
> ...


Hi ruckus - I'd love this to work. So far hasn't seen this motor tested, though.


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## GREENHORNET (Dec 25, 2012)

evmetro said:


> I thought this could be a fun opinion thread. Obviously, a the combo would vary on weight of vehicle and what your needs are, but for the sake of a fun thread lets just assume two scenarios. First is a 2500 lb car and the second would be a 3500 lb car. What is your personal opinioun for these two cars for all around use... not a hotrod, not range, but just all around use. Best comination of different things we want in an ev, and performance like an average ICE. Lets assume lithium packs of 20kwh and 30kwh respectively. What motor and controller would you want? Just fun here, no need to pick the idea apart.


Most would agree an average ICE vehicle can go 100mph or better. The best fuel efficient gas cars can exceed this speed such as the Chevy Eco Cruze as well as the best diesel cars in America such as VW TDI's. They also utilize 6spd transmissions to obtain this usually with 2 overdrive gears and the first gear is low for around the town fuel economy. 

If it was me I would go with the lightest combo I could afford in the 2500lb vehicle with a transmission. I would also lean more toward efficiency which would point me into the PMAC Brushless motor direction. You find these on motorcycles but not to often in cars. The reason being is they are not big enough to push the weight of a car typically. What most people don't know is if you double them up you get a dual motor combination that can easily push a car of this size around and its usually much lighter than other options out there. The drawback is you need multiple controllers which adds cost and complexity. 

A good option is the ME1115 which is 12kw cont and 30kw peak at 5000rpm and 96V double these figures for a dual motor configuration. 

So how would it perform with 60kw peak? Lets do some quick math and see I will be using these calculators for the figures = http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/horsepower_calc.shtml and http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml

I used a coefficient of drag of .34 Frontal area of 22 and weight of 2500 with a desired speed of 100mph this gave us 49.2HP so 12kw is 16HP and 30kw is 40HP doubling this figure for dual motors would give us a peak of 80HP potential for a limited time. This motor configuration would work nicely and would only weigh a meager 70lbs! The controllers I would use would be the Sevcon Gen4 Size 6 controllers as they can be connected in dual configuration for this exact setup. They are also very light in construction so weight would be saved going this route as well. 

If you used the right transmission setup this would further enhance this motor controller combination for even better performance and range capabilities. The link I provided will let you play with various gear ratios as to determine optimum transmission selection.

I would not go this route with the heavier 3500lb car in that scenario I would go with the BLDC motor suggested by Ruckus if there is such a viable cost effective option. It has been my experience that these are expensive and the controllers are expensive as well with few options avail currently. In theory you would have less maintenance with them you would also get better performance efficiency with less weight. These Scott drive motors Ruckus is referring to could be a good option for larger weight conversions if they check out! I would wait to see them tested before I spent the dinero. 

Weight is the biggest challenge and the lighter the better. A smaller car opens the door to more possibilities and greater economy potential. 

Cool thread and great ideas so far

Thanks,

Greenhornet


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Since we are playing with fake money, I'd go with the Remy/Rinehart combo that Bob Simpson sells. The 150kw version for the 2500 pound and the 300kw version for the 3500.


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