# Experience with 8VGC Batteries



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I am looking for poeple who have used 8VGC batteries in their EVs, preferably in 96 volts, but any real feedback is good. I am finding I need more range than my MAXX29's provide, so I am looking at 8VGC from Sam's Club, Costco and US Battery. I am sticking with a 96 volt pack, but I am hoping the extra Ah of 170 vs 125 will help. Right now I have a max current draw of 265 AMPs up hills, 85-130 AMPs cruising and 180 AMPs for normal accelerating. I am hoping to get 25-30 miles of range from an 8 volt pack, with average speed of 40 MPH, and hopefully 8,000 miles out of them. 

While my MAXX29 have suited me very well, I have recently found that my commute takes me farther than it use to, and this coming summer I need to be able to go 22-24 miles on a single charge, with maybe 2-3 hours of charging in the middle. The speed limit on my commute has also increase from 25 MPH to 45 MPH, and I can't maintain that speed for the entire 17 mile commute with my current setup. Once I hit 50% SoC, I have to drop to under 30 MPH.

So if anyone has any information on their experience of the 8VGC types of batteries, please give me your setup, how many miles, cycles and range you are getting. I am not expecting miracle batteries, just something will more Ah that what I am currently using.


----------



## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi SGC, I used 18 US battery 8vgc (144V) in my mustang which is a lot heavier but routinely got 20 miles(@50%soc) until about 3000 miles where it dropped off quickly to 15 or so miles(80+%soc) which induced a severe case of range anxiety, prompting my current upgrade to TS 160's. Was hoping for more time out of them but I probably exceeded the 50%soc too often.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

O'Zeeke said:


> Hi SGC, I used 18 US battery 8vgc (144V) in my mustang which is a lot heavier but routinely got 20 miles(@50%soc) until about 3000 miles where it dropped off quickly to 15 or so miles(80+%soc) which induced a severe case of range anxiety, prompting my current upgrade to TS 160's. Was hoping for more time out of them but I probably exceeded the 50%soc too often.


What kind of AMPs were you pulling, and did it happen to get cold out when you lost half your range? The 8VGC are supposed to be good for like 600 cycles to 50% DoD.


----------



## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> What kind of AMPs were you pulling, and did it happen to get cold out when you lost half your range? The 8VGC are supposed to be good for like 600 cycles to 50% DoD.


These are motor amps: hard acceleration 500A(buried the needle)
(Battery amps would be less) normal " 300-350A
cruising 150-175A
Never got cold during that time. I had to water them a lot more frequently towards the end but never had one go dry.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

O'Zeeke said:


> These are motor amps: hard acceleration 500A(buried the needle)
> (Battery amps would be less) normal " 300-350A
> cruising 150-175A
> Never got cold during that time. I had to water them a lot more frequently towards the end but never had one go dry.


Ok, that's pretty good information. I am betting you were pulling 500 AMPS from the batteries when punching it, which is a possibility to why you only got 3,000 miles. I have been told that 300-350 AMPs is the max flooded batteries can take and still survive for 10k miles. 

I am betting those LiFePO4 are real nice in the Mustang.


----------



## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Ok, that's pretty good information. I am betting you were pulling 500 AMPS from the batteries when punching it, which is a possibility to why you only got 3,000 miles. I have been told that 300-350 AMPs is the max flooded batteries can take and still survive for 10k miles.
> 
> I am betting those LiFePO4 are real nice in the Mustang.


Yeah, it's taking forever but making progress, I am re-doing just about EVERYTHING. Hope this pic comes thru, just got them from ev components


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Does anyone else have any experience with 8 Volt batteries? I am also wondering how they handle 275-300 AMP loads. From my experience with a few different flooded LA, I should pull more than 1.75C peak from them if I want long life. So that would be no more than 297.5 AMPs, more than I need.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

so I have 15 of the interstate 8v's (small ones like you're talking - US and interstate are the same thing) in my 120v zx2. I've put about 4500 miles on them and rarely pull 300amps. My max range is 45 miles with light acceleration and in city driving. Realistically, more like 35 in summer/15 in winter.

Oddly, I've only had to add water maybe 4 times in all those miles. I keep a good eye on the water level, but just haven't had to add nearly as much as I thought I would. Also, I've been very happy that in all those miles, the batts are still within .15 volt of each other whenever I measure them (and that's with a rather cheap charger).

Also, keep in mind that US/Interstate makes a slightly larger 8v with 183Ah available. I didn't chose those because I didn't think that less than 10% added range was worth the extra weight and cost. Overall, I've been happy with these batts. They are definately a compromise between range, cost and weight.

I have a local Intestate warehouse close and they gave me a good deal ($100/per) with no core charge and delivery to my garage for free. I have no idea what battery prices are now.. I bought mine in fall of '08.

Hope that's helpful.

btw, I regularly go down to 70 or 80% DOD.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> so I have 15 of the interstate 8v's (small ones like you're talking - US and interstate are the same thing) in my 120v zx2. I've put about 4500 miles on them and rarely pull 300amps. My max range is 45 miles with light acceleration and in city driving. Realistically, more like 35 in summer/15 in winter.
> 
> Oddly, I've only had to add water maybe 4 times in all those miles. I keep a good eye on the water level, but just haven't had to add nearly as much as I thought I would. Also, I've been very happy that in all those miles, the batts are still within .15 volt of each other whenever I measure them (and that's with a rather cheap charger).
> 
> ...


That is good info! I got the numbers to the local Interstate and US Battery dealers that I will be checking out tomorrow. I also got some specs from Sam's Club that I need to verify (I just need the color of the battery, forgot to ask). I do have battery warmers, so my winter range should be the same as my summer. All I really need is a SOLID 20 miles at 40-45 MPH, and I am estimating 25-30 miles in sub 40 MPH back roads. I usually have a 16.8 mile drive before fully charging, but on weekend I visit the relatives and need 20 miles round trip, with maybe 2-3 hours of 12.5 AMP charging in between.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Does anyone else have any experience with 8 Volt batteries? I am also wondering how they handle 275-300 AMP loads. From my experience with a few different flooded LA, I should pull more than 1.75C peak from them if I want long life. So that would be no more than 297.5 AMPs, more than I need.



yes, I have been happy with my us8vgchcx.... despite underwatering the first couple months, they recovered and are still ticking after a year totalling about 300 cycles and 4500 miles so far. Driving is 'average' suburban with periods at 300 amps (thru a Curtis 1221. They are showing signs of age with reduced range from the early under watering and winter temps with no heater in batt box. They are still ok, but I will probably replace this summer and 'upgrade' to 120v of LiFePO4.

if you stick with FLA, consider a watering system like 'flow-rite', its worth it in time savings and battery life! With the system in place now, my pack seems to use about a pint of water every 500 miles. In the beginning I waited too long between fills because it was kind of a pain to remove my rear seat and box cover to get to the rear box. Now the fill takes litterally 2 minutes using the stub ends I left sticking out where I can get to 'em


d


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> yes, I have been happy with my us8vgchcx.... despite underwatering the first couple months, they recovered and are still ticking after a year totalling about 300 cycles and 4500 miles so far. Driving is 'average' suburban with periods at 300 amps (thru a Curtis 1221. They are showing signs of age with reduced range from the early under watering and winter temps with no heater in batt box. They are still ok, but I will probably replace this summer and 'upgrade' to 120v of LiFePO4.
> 
> if you stick with FLA, consider a watering system like 'flow-rite', its worth it in time savings and battery life! With the system in place now, my pack seems to use about a pint of water every 500 miles. In the beginning I waited too long between fills because it was kind of a pain to remove my rear seat and box cover to get to the rear box. Now the fill takes litterally 2 minutes using the stub ends I left sticking out where I can get to 'em
> 
> ...


Winter is brutal on FLA. The flow-rite does sound nice, I will look into it. Accessing the batteries isn't a huge problem, but something quicker than the hour+ would be nice. What is your usually daily range?


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

I would recommend developing a peukert amp/capacity/time chart

A nifty spreadsheet to do this is at the C-car yahoo group thanx to Neon John

Here it is put in reserve and amp hour (aka 20 hour) then input what you figure your amp draw will be and you get a time.

Once you have a chart its a real eye opener how much a little less throttle really affects run time and range.

ttp://autos._groups_._yahoo_.com/_group_/C-Car

Cheers
Ryan


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Winter is brutal on FLA. The flow-rite does sound nice, I will look into it. Accessing the batteries isn't a huge problem, but something quicker than the hour+ would be nice. What is your usually daily range?


10-20 miles most days, usually less than 50% DOD.... 35-45mph with a fair amount of stops/starts. Santa Fe is fairly flat, but has a steady east-west slope that makes for a steady pull if coming east....


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I have gotten specs on my 8 Volt options:

*US Battery/Interstate 8VGC XC*
170AH @ 20HR
90 min @ 75A
128 min @ 56A
337 min @ 25A

*Trojan T-875*
170AH @ 20 HR
75 min @ 75A
117 min @ 56A
295 min @ 25A

*Energizer EGC8*
170AH @ 20 HR
75 min @ 75A
295 min @ 25A
105 AH @ 1 HR 


Depending on where you are, the Sam's Club batteries are either made by US Battery or Johnson Controls. The local Sam's Club sells the Johnson Controls version and these are the specs I found on them. I am still waiting for confirmation on those specs as they were pieced from a few sources.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> I have gotten specs on my 8 Volt options:
> 
> *US Battery/Interstate 8VGC XC*
> 90 min @ 75A
> ...


...that's why I went w/ US Battery. The gcxchc have even a little better....


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> ...that's why I went w/ US Battery. The gcxchc have even a little better....


Yeah, I am still waiting for a quote on them, but I did get a quote from Interstate and they wanted double what the Energizer's cost.... I hope the USB dealer is a better price, I'll have a wait a few days for the quote to come in.

I did find that the Energizer and the US8VGC have the same 1 hour rate of 105 Ah, which was interesting.

Using this data, I found that the US8VGC would give me about 32 miles and the Energizer/Trojan would give me about 28 miles to 80% DoD. If these specs are correct, that means my 17 mile commute would use less than 50% of the battery power.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Yeah, I am still waiting for a quote on them,


tell them you are building an EV, that you'll put stickers on your side windows, and you'd really love to get the Distributor price, or at least a bulk discount. 



TheSGC said:


> I did find that the Energizer and the US8VGC have the same 1 hour rate of 105 Ah, which was interesting.


and very unlikely to be true.



TheSGC said:


> my 17 mile commute would use less than 50% of the battery power.


less DOD% will mean much better life cycles, and lots of extra for heater, etc. If it is worth a few extra bucks up front, it may pay off in longevity.


----------



## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> ...that's why I went w/ US Battery. The gcxchc have even a little better....


Personally I am in favor of getting the max amps in the package, even tho it may weigh slightly more. The reason being that the expected amp life should trail downwards in time, similar to an ICE starter battery. Therefore, having a little extra now may keep you driving longer as the months drag on (or the weather cools down). 

Thanks for the informative thread, as I plan on a V upgrade (144V from 120V) before long. Seems my 3 yr life cycle has come near to its end. Just wondering how well the 8V/183AH will hold up compared to the 6V/250AH. The KWH is close to the same and I loose the weight of 2 batteries.

94 S10


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

CPLTECH said:


> Seems my 3 yr life cycle has come near to its end. Just wondering how well the 8V/183AH will hold up compared to the 6V/250AH. The KWH is close to the same and I loose the weight of 2 batteries.


probably close to a wash..... 

I do think mine would have lasted better had i installed the flow-rite watering system earlier to keep the level good and balanced. I ran'em dry once, which can't be good.  Batteries sat in garage almost 6 months before I installed and got a real charge into them. Also, 3 were dropped and spilled on delivery, and one case cracked and leaked ALL acid out of one cell. I was able to repair the case, but never sure I got acid balanced with all...


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> probably close to a wash.....
> 
> I do think mine would have lasted better had i installed the flow-rite watering system earlier to keep the level good and balanced. I ran'em dry once, which can't be good.  Batteries sat in garage almost 6 months before I installed and got a real charge into them. Also, 3 were dropped and spilled on delivery, and one case cracked and leaked ALL acid out of one cell. I was able to repair the case, but never sure I got acid balanced with all...


Wow, I think you just defined the term Batricide! 

I am in the process of getting new racks built so when I get the new batteries they are sitting for no more than a few hours. If I can get these to last about 8,000 babied miles, that would be good for me. I have been going over my driving routines, and I figure if my batteries last 6,000 miles (9 months) it will meet all my needs and still be cost effective and I would have saved the amount of money required for gas in the same time. If my dad drove the EV, it would pay itself back in a little over 3 months in gas savings.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Wow, I think you just defined the term Batricide!


amazing thing is that they are working at all still after 4500 miles. They are for sure not the same as new, but still have a range of 25-30 miles which was 40 when new; albiet seem to not take a full charge quite as well and sag a little deeper when past 50% DOD.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I have decided to go with Sam's Club Energizer GC8 batteries. I got qoutes from Interstate, US Battery, Trojan and a few house brands from local dealers and they were really high priced, some nearly double of the EGC8.

I called up the local Sam's today and ordered up a matched set of 12 EGC8. Golf season hasn't started up yet here so they didn't have a real stock, only 6 of them, but since they are shipped directly from the manufacturer, they can get pallets whenever they need them. So I will have a fresh set and I should be getting a call from Sam's when I will be able to pick them up.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I hope you have good luck with them.... there are a lot of negative comparisons regarding durability on them compared to Crown, Trojan, USB/Interstate if you start surfing around.

regardless, if they are floodies, be sure to keep'em watered.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> I hope you have good luck with them.... there are a lot of negative comparisons regarding durability on them compared to Crown, Trojan, USB/Interstate if you start surfing around.
> 
> regardless, if they are floodies, be sure to keep'em watered.


That's interesting because I have found that the recent dated (2008-2010) posts said the Energizers ended up being the same as the Trojans in quality, maybe even slightly better in a golf cart. Of course USB/Interstate takes the cake, and I haven't found any concrete info on the Crowns. Also, some Sam's out in Western US actually sell US8VGC with their sticker on it.

I will see how they work out. Knowing me I will probably be spot checking water level, voltages and connections daily.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> I will see how they work out. Knowing me I will probably be spot checking water level, voltages and connections daily.


I have found that with my Flow-rite system installed, if I water every 500 miles it only takes a pint or so to top off 12x8v batteries, and takes about 2 minutes. For me, it was worth the investment in the watering system in time savings, and probably would have helped my batteries last much longer if I'd had the system from the start.

This may vary with battery make, age, charger, and how hard you drive. But I would water maybe every 500 miles or monthly, whichever comes first.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> I have found that with my Flow-rite system installed, if I water every 500 miles it only takes a pint or so to top off 12x8v batteries, and takes about 2 minutes. For me, it was worth the investment in the watering system in time savings, and probably would have helped my batteries last much longer if I'd had the system from the start.
> 
> This may vary with battery make, age, charger, and how hard you drive. But I would water maybe every 500 miles or monthly, whichever comes first.


On my MAXX29 I have nearly 1500 miles and no need to water them. They barely bubble when I dump 12.5 AMPs into them and I have checked the water level every two weeks. 

I have started to go through the Flow-Rite website and will start to search for pricing, but if I do get them it will have to wait a while as my budget gets eaten up by the new batteries and the new battery rack.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> On my MAXX29 I have nearly 1500 miles and no need to water them. They barely bubble when I dump 12.5 AMPs into them and I have checked the water level every two weeks.
> 
> I have started to go through the Flow-Rite website and will start to search for pricing, but if I do get them it will have to wait a while as my budget gets eaten up by the new batteries and the new battery rack.



gassing should only happen at the very end of the cycle... so that is not unusual if they don't bubble much util the very end of the over-voltage stage. 

My batteries also seemed to not require water for the first *long time*... I got tired of checking, so I didn't check one month, or maybe closer to two, and had run most of the cells down to the point where the tops of the plates were exposed. The batteries did recover, and are still working at almost 5000 miles now, but range is down from 40 miles to 25-30. :sigh: live and learn.


----------



## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

I believe that low cost GC 8Vs are a good choice for your first pack.
I ran GC 8V Exide batteries last year in a converted Saturn SL1. They survived for *less than a year, but did roll up over 8,000 miles*. The battery charger over charged a couple of nights and ruined them. Lesson, need a basic BMS to backup the automatic charger.

One of the most important ways to compare battery to battery is kilowatts per pound. In lead-acids you just got to have more lead to go a longer distance.
These GCs weight 63 pounds each so 18 in a 144 volt pack weight 1134 pounds, so the Saturn weigh numbers are 2270 before conversion, 3483 lbs after the conversion a very heavy car. My distance was 30 miles on a charge with 37 the maximum ever. I drove at average 60 mph.

New pack on the way are 160ah Thundersky LiFePo4s.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

atzi said:


> I believe that low cost GC 8Vs are a good choice for your first pack.
> I ran GC 8V Exide batteries last year in a converted Saturn SL1. They survived for *less than a year, but did roll up over 8,000 miles*. The battery charger over charged a couple of nights and ruined them. Lesson, need a basic BMS to backup the automatic charger.
> 
> One of the most important ways to compare battery to battery is kilowatts per pound. In lead-acids you just got to have more lead to go a longer distance.
> ...


I read through your site and I have to say getting 8,000 miles from those Exide's isn't too bad. I am waiting to here back from Sam's Club on when the new order of batteries arrive, but I might just call them to check. These new JCI batteries have the same specs as a T-875, but $60 less per battery. I only need them to last past 6,000 miles to be cost effective and still be cheaper than gas.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I called up Sam's again and they had no idea when the next pallet would arrive so tomorrow I will call another Sam's and see if they have enough in stock. I didn't think about doing that until after they closed tonight so it will have to wait until tomorrow morning.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I was literally about to go up to Sam's Club and order a set of EGC8 when I got yet another quote, this time for US 8VGC XC and I have to say the price is very good, at least $40 cheaper than all the other quotes I received. 

I am going to call up the distributor to iron out some details, but my tax return easily makes up the difference between this latest quote of US 8VGC XC and the EGC8. Oh, and instead of me having to abuse the suspension in my dad's minivan and loading it with 760lbs of lead, they ship directly to my house.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I think you'll be happy with US/Interstate batteries.. I've been pleased with mind and haven't had to replace any after more than 4,000 miles. They all stay very close to each other in charge and watering is not needed nearly as often as I had first thought..


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ...watering is not needed nearly as often as I had first thought..


be careful to keep checking though! Water use can change drastically with outside temp and how deeply you are charging.... I top'em off every 500 miles, which doesn't take much water, but makes me feel better and only takes about 2 minutes with the flow-rite watering system...


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I got off the phone with the supplier (Harris Battery) and I should be getting the final pricing sheet tonight with all the extra junk like 6.5% state tax on it. Then I fork over my life savings and get new batteries in a week or two. 

Doing the cost analysis, the dollar per estimated range is the same between the EGC8 (est 24 miles) and the US8VGC XC (30 miles) so I can't complain on the pricing. 

I also estimated the gas savings by car swapping, and total household gas savings would be $210 a month! The whole pack would be paid off in gas savings by the end of the year!

Hey, it's worth it for that EV Grin and the dedicated parking space.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

My batteries have been ordered! They arrive this week, Wednesday or Thursday and I don't pay until they arrive! Tomorrow I will get my cashier's check in order and by Tuesday I want my new battery rack installed. In a perfect world, the delivery truck would remove the batteries from their truck and dump them into my EV.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> In a perfect world, the delivery truck would remove the batteries from their truck and dump them into my EV.


be careful with the dumping part... thats where a stack of mine tipped over, spilled acid, and one cracked case. ;(


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> be careful with the dumping part... thats where a stack of mine tipped over, spilled acid, and one cracked case. ;(


Ick. I am definitely making sure that won't happen. 

I was going to install my new rack today, but that would mean an EV-less weekend. Instead I will clean up my spare battery cables and pound on some more EV miles.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

One thing I overlooked was the terminal type, so I called up my supplier today and found that I getting the standard UTL. I thought it would have been the SAE post, but that would take about 4 weeks to get. 

It actually worked out because I need the threaded post for my charger, PakTrakr and other devices. I also found that I need to replace most of my lugs on my cables due to age, so I ordered up a set of 3/8" lugs today. I actually have enough spare cables to create a whole new set, I just need to measure the sizes when my new pack arrives.


----------



## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> I was literally about to go up to Sam's Club and order a set of EGC8 when I got yet another quote, this time for US 8VGC XC and I have to say the price is very good, at least $40 cheaper than all the other quotes I received.
> 
> I am going to call up the distributor to iron out some details, but my tax return easily makes up the difference between this latest quote of US 8VGC XC and the EGC8. Oh, and instead of me having to abuse the suspension in my dad's minivan and loading it with 760lbs of lead, they ship directly to my house.


Care to share what the final price + shipping is going to be?

Also I wanted to get an opinion on trying to get a EGC8 bank at a discount. The Sams Clubs in the area have been very slow moving these batteries. Many have stickers that show them being over a year old. I was thinking of going in and offering to take a set of the old batteries off their hands for a 25% discount and no core charge.

I think that would be enough savings to balance not having a brand new balanced set of batteries.

Thoughts?

ga2500ev


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

ga2500ev said:


> Care to share what the final price + shipping is going to be?
> 
> Also I wanted to get an opinion on trying to get a EGC8 bank at a discount. The Sams Clubs in the area have been very slow moving these batteries. Many have stickers that show them being over a year old. I was thinking of going in and offering to take a set of the old batteries off their hands for a 25% discount and no core charge.
> 
> ...


It's a little over $1400 for 12 8VGC XC shipped to my house, which should be arriving in the next few days.

Do not buy batteries a year old! They will probably explode the first time you use them (others have, and they did explode). If they have been sitting for so long they are sulfated beyond any usefulness and not worth any amounts of money. Lead acid has about a 2 month shelf life span, after that if they are never charged or cared for they are paper weights.


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Do not buy batteries a year old! They will probably explode the first time you use them (others have, and they did explode). If they have been sitting for so long they are sulfated beyond any usefulness and not worth any amounts of money. Lead acid has about a 2 month shelf life span, after that if they are never charged or cared for they are paper weights.


Hmm, I will have to look at Sams club with this message and see if I can buy them at the scrap value + 25%.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I seriously doubt they will explode, or even are sulphated from sitting... that happens with cycles, not one long slow discharge. You don't want different age/charges n the same pack though because they won't be balanced. Not as serious as with Li, but better to start at similar levels of charge and same batch of batteries when possible.


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I seriously doubt they will explode, or even are sulphated from sitting... that happens with cycles, not one long slow discharge. Not as serious as with Li, but better to start at similar levels of charge and same batch of batteries when possible.


Yeah he did make a rather big deal out of something that is a rather freak occurance.

They are however likely mildly sulphated, depending on the type of plate foam, solid, hybred it might be a very good idea to charge them more slowly than you normally would or trickle charge them to recover capacity more quickly as you use them. I would not expect anywhere near full capacity until about 25 charge and discharge cycles on a pack like that.

If you don't do a slow long charge on a set that is new and has been sitting it doesn't tend to "Wake Up" as well or as quickly. In fact dry cells always state a specific slow charge rate after you add liquid this first time. Similar concept.

In other words no big deal that they have sat, they just likely will need a small amount of TLC to achieve full capacity AKA don't abuse them initially.

But needless to say, if Wall-land doesn't know this more benefit to us possibly.

Cheers
Ryan


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

dtbaker said:


> I seriously doubt they will explode, or even are sulphated from sitting... that happens with cycles, not one long slow discharge. You don't want different age/charges n the same pack though because they won't be balanced. Not as serious as with Li, but better to start at similar levels of charge and same batch of batteries when possible.


Lead acid flooded loses about 1% capacity a day, so after 100 days it's dead and sulfating like crazy after that. That's why lead acid must be charged at least once a month at minimum, or just place on a float charger. I have heard from a few EV'rs that got the old stock and there's exploded during their first launch. Sealed/Gel/AGM have incredible shelf life, and some loose about 5% a month, not too bad. 

Let me clarify, if you get old batteries you may be able to save them dong VERY low current for a while, like less than 10 AMPs, but anything higher and you will probably damage something. I have seen a handful of car batteries explode after sitting for a year, then getting charged and try to start a car. 

You should check and see if they charge frequently. They are supposed to charge batteries every 1-2 months of being on the shelf, but most don't.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Oh, I was wondering- how are you people holding down your batteries? I currently have straps, but I am looking to build a cage-like tops to the batteries if I ever get paid....


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Lead acid flooded loses about 1% capacity a day, so after 100 days it's dead and sulfating like crazy after that.


After 100 days its at 36.6% SOC at 1% loss per day, the thing is it doesn't actually work like that normally. The loss rate reduces as as SOC reduces, also different FLA's have different discharge rates.

I do agree however on the rest about slow charging and discharging.

My greensavers Silicone lead batteries were sitting 2 years and at 90% capacity if it means anything.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

rmay635703 said:


> After 100 days its at 36.6% SOC at 1% loss per day, the thing is it doesn't actually work like that normally. The loss rate reduces as as SOC reduces, also different FLA's have different discharge rates.
> 
> I do agree however on the rest about slow charging and discharging.
> 
> My greensavers Silicone lead batteries were sitting 2 years and at 90% capacity if it means anything.


Those Greensavers are supposed to have incredible shelf life, probably result as using the Silicone.

You can always try and see if you can get a discount from Sam's. Just don't apply EV loads immediately to them!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

My 8VGC XC's came in this afternoon!


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

uh.. nevermind : ) I see you can only use screw down type lugs (whatever those are called!)


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> uh.. nevermind : ) I see you can only use screw down type lugs (whatever those are called!)


Yeah, USB calls them UTL Terminals. I am making new cables because my current terminals are for SAE posts and they are in bad condition. I was going to get the SAE terminals but the special order wait time was ridiculous and I got them fast because there were "returned" batteries. Someone from NY bought them and realized he wanted 6v when the arrived so they went right back onto the truck and the next day started off to my house. 

I think I had an idea on how I want them wired, and I finished building my crimping tool so tomorrow we will see.


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

TheSGC, Nice! It's always great to get a good deal -and- get things quickly. Usually those things don't come together in the battery world, although it's probably a bit easier when going the Wally World or Sam's Club route but what you have seems to be a much nicer battery and since you say you've got a better deal than the Sam's Club batteries, good deal! How long are you figuring they will last with your DoD? I figure the difference will be significant compared to the MAXX29's.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

MN Driver said:


> TheSGC, Nice! It's always great to get a good deal -and- get things quickly. Usually those things don't come together in the battery world, although it's probably a bit easier when going the Wally World or Sam's Club route but what you have seems to be a much nicer battery and since you say you've got a better deal than the Sam's Club batteries, good deal! How long are you figuring they will last with your DoD? I figure the difference will be significant compared to the MAXX29's.


I am expecting less than 50% DoD on my usual commute, more like 42-45% DoD. I am hoping for 12,000+ miles, but they will still be cost effective if they last at least 6500 miles. I was actually surprised on how fast they arrived, my initial guess was 2-3 weeks but they I got an e-mail saying Thursday or Friday, then a call today saying there were almost here.

Based upon the power requirements of my driving and the data I collected from the Zilla and my MAXX29, I am estimating between 30-32 miles to 80% DoD. I only need 21 miles on a bad day, usually 17 miles before I charge.


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> I am expecting less than 50% DoD on my usual commute, more like 42-45% DoD. I am hoping for 12,000+ miles, but they will still be cost effective if they last at least 6500 miles. I was actually surprised on how fast they arrived, my initial guess was 2-3 weeks but they I got an e-mail saying Thursday or Friday, then a call today saying there were almost here.
> 
> Based upon the power requirements of my driving and the data I collected from the Zilla and my MAXX29, I am estimating between 30-32 miles to 80% DoD. I only need 21 miles on a bad day, usually 17 miles before I charge.


12,000+ miles would be sweet. If I didn't have to go 30 miles minimum round trip on the highway(no option to charge at work). I think that lead-acid would be feasible for me with a shorter trip off the highway but I don't know how I could make lead-acid work and still have a ~50% DOD to make the pack last at the same time for a daily 30 miles on the highway. So, it's lithium for me, but I see where lead-acid fits in to the range, cost, performance, and life goals of those who use it so I have lots of respect(and some jealousy of those with an easier commute) for those who can manage their packs so they can perform over a long life.


----------

