# Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*



> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to add a winch to my 6 wheeler and since I can't find a 48 volt
> > winch I'd like ideas on running a 12 volt one, other than carrying an extra
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Add a 12/48 volt DC-DC autotransformer -- even though they are only
generally 10 amps or so (on the 12 volt side, 2.5 on the 48 volt side), if
it stays connected, it can balance out very high momentary loads from the
winch.

Z



> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 07:45:04AM -0800, AMPhibian wrote:
> > >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

You are presuming he does have a battery to take the
surge of the winch starting or stalling.
He indicated that he rather not have another
battery, though I think it is unavoidable.

BTW - how about the vehicle's aux battery?
Is your EV without any aux battery?
That is usually where the winch is attached to
though you need to tell us how much your winch 
is going to draw and for how long to get a good
answer that is meaningful...
Otherwise the only thing we can do is submit
general advice or go into "over-designing" to
be on the safe side.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:27 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack

Add a 12/48 volt DC-DC autotransformer -- even though they are only
generally 10 amps or so (on the 12 volt side, 2.5 on the 48 volt side),
if
it stays connected, it can balance out very high momentary loads from
the
winch.

Z

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Willie McKemie <[email protected]>
wrote:

>


> AMPhibian wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd like to add a winch to my 6 wheeler and since I can't find a 48
> volt
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Sorry for the lack of details. Full specs here www.evalbum.com/1609, but no
I don't have an aux battery since it's a simple off road vehicle. As for
amp draw I'm not sure but one spec I found said .7Kw so I'd say around 60
amps at 12 volts, probably for less than 60 seconds. Occasionally I get
stuck or need to winch up a log. Last time I got stuck it took a half hour
of winching with come-a-longs and chains, I'd rather avoid that again. What
do you think would happen if I ran it at 48 volts for short periods,
disaster? Or running it with a 48 volt controller using the PWM to keep the
average voltage down?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Running-a-12-volt-winch-from-a-48-volt-pack-tp21776578p21777776.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

I would not recommend running the 12V winch
directly on 48V.
Either get a new motor (rewound) for 48V
or if you do not need to drive while you 
winch, use your controller set to 12V output
(25% PWM) and feed it to your winch
instead of the drive motor
(use a contactor to switch the controller output) 

You can of course get a second controller
dedicated for your winch if you want to drive 
and winch at the same time...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of AMPhibian
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack


Sorry for the lack of details. Full specs here www.evalbum.com/1609,
but no
I don't have an aux battery since it's a simple off road vehicle. As
for
amp draw I'm not sure but one spec I found said .7Kw so I'd say around
60
amps at 12 volts, probably for less than 60 seconds. Occasionally I get
stuck or need to winch up a log. Last time I got stuck it took a half
hour
of winching with come-a-longs and chains, I'd rather avoid that again.
What
do you think would happen if I ran it at 48 volts for short periods,
disaster? Or running it with a 48 volt controller using the PWM to keep
the
average voltage down?
-- 
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Running-a-12-volt-winch-from-a-48-volt-pack-tp2177
6578p21777776.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

I did consider using my existing controller with a contactor but being able
to drive while winching takes some of the load off the winch and can often
cut down on winching time. A second controller may be the way to go since I
wouldn't need much amperage. Anyone know of a 60-100 amp 48 volt
controller? Smallest I know of is a 300 amp Alltrax which would be
overkill, though maybe in the scooter/electric bike world I could find
something smaller.




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >
> > I would not recommend running the 12V winch
> > directly on 48V.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

I kept a few links from when I was part searching for my RC lawnmower 
project. Do you want forward and reverse or does the winch have a reverse 
gear?

F&R
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/RP-OSMC.html

F Only
http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=887

A mix of both
http://www.ifirobotics.com/speed-controller-selection-guide.shtml


Watch the input type. I can't quite remember which uses what but you may 
also need to get a small servo controller for these. Like this 
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/RL-SRVTST.html The servo controller 
would need power as well so you'd need a small RC style 48- 5 volt BEC 
(Battery Eleminator) or more accurately should be called a voltage 
regulator.

Most wheelchairs and scooters are 24 volts but they won't have RC servo PWM 
controlled inputs to deal with. You MAY be able to find 48 volt flavors of 
them, search E-bay.


Stub






> AMPhibian wrote:
> Anyone
> > know of a 60-100 amp 48 volt controller? Smallest I know of is a 300
> > amp Alltrax which would be overkill, though maybe in the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*



> AMPhibian wrote:
> > I'd like to add a winch to my 6 wheeler and since I can't find a 48 volt
> > winch I'd like ideas on running a 12 volt one, other than carrying an extra
> > 12 volt battery around. Most of the ATV winches I see seem to be perm
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Interesting but not enough amperage. I need closer to 60 amps at 12 volts. 
Scooter controllers look like the way to go, on the cheap.



> ecology wrote:
> >
> > AMPhibian wrote:
> >> I'd like to add a winch to my 6 wheeler and since I can't find a 48 volt
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Nice, the 750 watt motor controller looks like the way to go, and it's cheap. 
If it's a resistance type throttle such as a 0-5kohm type could I just use a
single resistor about 1.5kohms to keep it at about 14-16 volts? I figure if
it were hooked to a running vehicle with an alternator it would see at least
that much and the higher I run it the fewer amps it draws. How high would
you think is safe for the 12 volt motor?




> Chris Stephens-4 wrote:
> >
> >
> > I kept a few links from when I was part searching for my RC lawnmower
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

I think??? It seems like I remember most scooter throttles are 0-5 volt 
anyway.

Just looking at the Pic... a lot of assumptions here.
You might could remove the hand throttle (cut it off?) and put a small thumb 
thing on it like a 3-speed bike. Or use a DPDT (double pole double throw) 
switch to select a resistor circuit for FWD,OFF, REV.
An easier one may be to get a momentary switch and wire it up for a push and 
hold. Use the exsisting switch for FWD,REV.

I see the throttle has 3 wires. I'd guess 5 volt, ground, and return. Figure 
out where 1/4 throttle is and use a resister between the 5 volt and return. 
Disconnect this circuit with a momentary switch and you should have forward. 
Flip the switch and hold and you should have reverse.

Again, a guess here based on the PIC...
It looks like the red wire near the switch is BATT, the black near the 
throttle out a different grommet is ground. I'd guess the other connections 
to be a batt meter, and charger input. Another guess would be the yellow 
black is the batt meter, red/black is the charge port.

Just some ideas you know. I can't say if it will smoke your motor or not. My 
guess is yes if you try to run it full speed. You may be able to run it 1/4 
speed for "pull" and full speed for "out".
Someone who knows motor controller could possibly give you better answers. 
All this is guesses based off the picture so if you smoke it, let me know 
and I'll cry a little for you.

Stub






> AMPhibian wrote:
> > Nice, the 750 watt motor controller looks like the way to go, and
> > it's cheap. If it's a resistance type throttle such as a 0-5kohm type
> > could I just use a single resistor about 1.5kohms to keep it at about
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Check out Surplus Center. They have 2 that will work.

Item# 6-989 $64.99, 18-50 VDC input, 5 amp cont duty
Item# 6-990 $199.00, 20-60 VDC input, 25 amp cont duty

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp? 
UID=2009020114560806&item=6-989&catname=electric
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp? 
UID=2009020114560806&item=6-990&catname=electric

I have one here I've used for a 36 volt electric bike project where I 
need to run some 12 volt stuff.

Chip







> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:56:32 -0800 (PST)
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

A 750W 48V controller can likely only do 190W at 12V. It's actually a
maximum current, not a maximum power.

At 1/4 output voltage, you only get 1/4 output power. That means you
need a 3kW controller or so.

-Morgan LaMoore



> AMPhibian <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Nice, the 750 watt motor controller looks like the way to go, and it's cheap.
> > If it's a resistance type throttle such as a 0-5kohm type could I just use a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

He needs 60+ Amps.
Even with the 6-990 he'd need 3 parallel
so at a cost of $600 this is hardly optimal. 


Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Chip Gribben
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack

Check out Surplus Center. They have 2 that will work.

Item# 6-989 $64.99, 18-50 VDC input, 5 amp cont duty
Item# 6-990 $199.00, 20-60 VDC input, 25 amp cont duty

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp? 
UID=2009020114560806&item=6-989&catname=electric
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp? 
UID=2009020114560806&item=6-990&catname=electric

I have one here I've used for a 36 volt electric bike project where I 
need to run some 12 volt stuff.

Chip







> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:56:32 -0800 (PST)
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

How about an ex-military winch that is 24V? I've got a couple of them, if 
anyone is interested - Not the actual winch itself, but the 
motors/gearboxes, with control box (resistor, switches, relay, etc.).

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "AMPhibian" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:45 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack


>
> I'd like to add a winch to my 6 wheeler and since I can't find a 48 volt
> winch I'd like ideas on running a 12 volt one, other than carrying an 
> extra
> 12 volt battery around. Most of the ATV winches I see seem to be perm
> magnet. Ideas?
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Running-a-12-volt-winch-from-a-48-volt-pack-tp21776578p21776578.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > You are presuming he does have a battery to take the
> > surge of the winch starting or stalling.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

> He needs 60+ Amps.
> Even with the 6-990 he'd need 3 parallel
> so at a cost of $600 this is hardly optimal.

Seeing as no-one wanted my motor-with-controller offering on eBay, I'd 
offer him my 48V PM controller by itself for the $225 I was going to 
start bidding at. The 330A current limit is for only 1min, but the 
continuous rating of 100A should be enough.


Think more
Talk less
Become wise

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

But, how long are you going to be using 60 amps? As long as you have a
duty cycle less than 15% on the winch motor, the 10A balancer can keep up.
Most winch motors aren't rated for a duty cycle much more than that anyway.
And, if you kept the balancer hooked up all the time, it would actually have
24 hours a day to balance the charge, not just while you were driving.

Z



> AMPhibian <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Interesting but not enough amperage. I need closer to 60 amps at 12 volts.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Right, forgot about that. This might work, 48 volts 100 amps, $70 shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/48-Volt-Controller-Scooter-Parts_W0QQitemZ290172183382QQcmdZViewItemQQptZScooters?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
48 Volt controller 



> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> >
> > A 750W 48V controller can likely only do 190W at 12V. It's actually a
> > maximum current, not a maximum power.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Probably larger than what I'm looking for, and still not 48 volts.



> joe-22 wrote:
> >
> > How about an ex-military winch that is 24V? I've got a couple of them, if
> > anyone is interested - Not the actual winch itself, but the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Next step up looks like a used Alltrax NPX 300 amp 48 volt controller for
$165 or new for $221, a little more than I want to put into this setup.
http://evdrives.com/alltrax_npx4834.html Alltrax 



> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> > Right, forgot about that. This might work, 48 volts 100 amps, $70
> > shipped.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

Someone can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that 
these could be run at more than 48V without hurting them a bit. They are 
fairly heavy and bulky, though.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "AMPhibian" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack


>
> Probably larger than what I'm looking for, and still not 48 volts.
>


> > joe-22 wrote:
> >>
> >> How about an ex-military winch that is 24V? I've got a couple of them, if
> >> anyone is interested - Not the actual winch itself, but the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

I am days behind on the list, so forgive me if this has been covered, 
but we run our motors above voltage all the time.(though not without a 
controller)
Can you change the size of the drum or the gearing and just let er rip?

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Running a 12 volt winch from a 48 volt pack*

My initial thought was to do just that for the same reasons, but I think the
reality is that running a 12 volt motor at 48 without brush advancement is
the same as running a 48 volt motor at 96 volts without brush advancement,
not a good idea. At least I'm assuming that's the problem. I don't know
how easy it would be to modify one of these winches, they are fairly compact
and I'm guessing they may not lend themselves to tinkering, though I don't
know. I have yet to make a purchase.




> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> > I am days behind on the list, so forgive me if this has been covered,
> > but we run our motors above voltage all the time.(though not without a
> ...


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