# [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[Avcon EVSE retrofit for Volt pish use]

Steve what brand and model AVCON EVSE do you have?

Funny you should ask. I just finished a discussion on this 
(converting Avcon EVSE to have a J1772 coupler) with an EAA Board 
member. They had changed their Avcon PowerPak EVSE over to use a 
J1772 coupler. They said they bought a J1772 coupler cable from 
http://clippercreek.com

We then discussed the funding to replace all the old EVSE (the 
Avcons, not the many inductive EVSE that no one else can use but 
the few inductive-charging EVs out there) with new J1772 
compatible EVSE. It was mentioned that the old Avcon EVSE are to 
be crushed after removal (not unlike the way EV1s had been 
disposed of).

I expressed that it was too bad that these old Avcon EVSE could not
be saved from that fate, by perhaps the Avcon male coupler loped 
off, and then the rest of the EVSE used for retrofit by diy EV and 
pih drivers. This would not only reduce the pollution of crushing 
and disposing of them, but save a whole lot of money for diy 
drivers who have already bravely paid the price for their new-ride.

That idea did not fly. Though it was not said, I can only assume 
there is some Government requirement to crush rather than re-use 
them to get the funds (if so, don't you just love that lack of 
common sense with our taxe$).

It was discussed that Avcon EVSE other that the Avcon PowerPak 
(i.e. evii ics-200 or ds-50) may need a different J1772 cable 
clipper creek offers (my assumption this likely has something to 
do with GM's proprietary Volt pish timing signal I have read about
in other forums).

I suggested I could put together a web page with this information 
on it because there are diy EV and pih drivers that would like to 
jump on this idea. I was told that a board member will be putting 
out an article on this in an up coming issue of EAA's CE newsletter.


...
*If there are others that have detail I can use, or know of an 
existing web site on the converting of old EVSE to the new J1772 
coupler, please let me know.

Also, since I did not see the aforementioned cables on the 
clippercreek.com web site, I'll assume one will have to contact them
directly and sweet-talk your way into getting the correct cable. If 
anyone finds out how this process works, please let me know so I can 
document it for all to read. Perhaps someone knows of an alternative
source for a J1772 male coupler and cable assembly that would also
work for EVs and pihs, and a special on for GM's pish, but is easier
to obtain.




{brucedp.150m.com}


On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:58 -0600, "Stephan Grupp" <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> > Hi-
> > there are EV charges in my garage at work made by Avcom. They have these
> > large, trapezoidal block plugs. Does anyone know if a adapter for the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I dont know the model offhand. I will check it out when I get back to work
next week. It isnt even clear to me why they put these things in the garage,
since they are never used. This is in Pennsylvania, so its actually quite
odd to see any kind of charging stations.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Avcom-EV-adapter-for-Chevy-Volt-tp3672519p3672665.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't need to go the expense of buying a J1772 coupler cable....
Unless you want to spend more than you need to...

Just buy a Plug and change out the plug... real Simple

Directions are at www.TucsonEV.com

I've discussed this with a Ron Freund, an EAA Board Member who helped change out a friends Avcon 
charger, he said it was a simple job, in fact he wrote it up in last months Current EVents. The only 
change I have to add is you don't need to do Step 2 with my Plugs, they have the proximity micro 
switch and circuit built into them.

See http://tucsonev.com/EVIDS50.html for how Scott Cornell did his changeout.

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bruce parmenter" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt


> [Avcon EVSE retrofit for Volt pish use]
>
> Steve what brand and model AVCON EVSE do you have?
>
> Funny you should ask. I just finished a discussion on this
> (converting Avcon EVSE to have a J1772 coupler) with an EAA Board
> member. They had changed their Avcon PowerPak EVSE over to use a
> J1772 coupler. They said they bought a J1772 coupler cable from
> http://clippercreek.com
>
> We then discussed the funding to replace all the old EVSE (the
> Avcons, not the many inductive EVSE that no one else can use but
> the few inductive-charging EVs out there) with new J1772
> compatible EVSE. It was mentioned that the old Avcon EVSE are to
> be crushed after removal (not unlike the way EV1s had been
> disposed of).
>
> I expressed that it was too bad that these old Avcon EVSE could not
> be saved from that fate, by perhaps the Avcon male coupler loped
> off, and then the rest of the EVSE used for retrofit by diy EV and
> pih drivers. This would not only reduce the pollution of crushing
> and disposing of them, but save a whole lot of money for diy
> drivers who have already bravely paid the price for their new-ride.
>
> That idea did not fly. Though it was not said, I can only assume
> there is some Government requirement to crush rather than re-use
> them to get the funds (if so, don't you just love that lack of
> common sense with our taxe$).
>
> It was discussed that Avcon EVSE other that the Avcon PowerPak
> (i.e. evii ics-200 or ds-50) may need a different J1772 cable
> clipper creek offers (my assumption this likely has something to
> do with GM's proprietary Volt pish timing signal I have read about
> in other forums).
>
> I suggested I could put together a web page with this information
> on it because there are diy EV and pih drivers that would like to
> jump on this idea. I was told that a board member will be putting
> out an article on this in an up coming issue of EAA's CE newsletter.
>
>
> ...
> *If there are others that have detail I can use, or know of an
> existing web site on the converting of old EVSE to the new J1772
> coupler, please let me know.
>
> Also, since I did not see the aforementioned cables on the
> clippercreek.com web site, I'll assume one will have to contact them
> directly and sweet-talk your way into getting the correct cable. If
> anyone finds out how this process works, please let me know so I can
> document it for all to read. Perhaps someone knows of an alternative
> source for a J1772 male coupler and cable assembly that would also
> work for EVs and pihs, and a special on for GM's pish, but is easier
> to obtain.
>
>
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:58 -0600, "Stephan Grupp" <[email protected]>


> > wrote:
> >> Hi-
> >> there are EV charges in my garage at work made by Avcom. They have these
> >> large, trapezoidal block plugs. Does anyone know if a adapter for the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Woops meant to put the other link in
http://tucsonev.com/otherJ1772.html

Where Steve changed out the Plug, wiring is exactly the same, only difficult part is the soldering 
of the wires into the pins of the Plug. (don't you like his blue gloves!!!)

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rush" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt


> Don't need to go the expense of buying a J1772 coupler cable....
> Unless you want to spend more than you need to...
>
> Just buy a Plug and change out the plug... real Simple
>
> Directions are at www.TucsonEV.com
>
> I've discussed this with a Ron Freund, an EAA Board Member who helped change out a friends Avcon
> charger, he said it was a simple job, in fact he wrote it up in last months Current EVents. The 
> only
> change I have to add is you don't need to do Step 2 with my Plugs, they have the proximity micro
> switch and circuit built into them.
>
> See http://tucsonev.com/EVIDS50.html for how Scott Cornell did his changeout.
>
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "bruce parmenter" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 5:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt
>
>
>> [Avcon EVSE retrofit for Volt pish use]
>>
>> Steve what brand and model AVCON EVSE do you have?
>>
>> Funny you should ask. I just finished a discussion on this
>> (converting Avcon EVSE to have a J1772 coupler) with an EAA Board
>> member. They had changed their Avcon PowerPak EVSE over to use a
>> J1772 coupler. They said they bought a J1772 coupler cable from
>> http://clippercreek.com
>>
>> We then discussed the funding to replace all the old EVSE (the
>> Avcons, not the many inductive EVSE that no one else can use but
>> the few inductive-charging EVs out there) with new J1772
>> compatible EVSE. It was mentioned that the old Avcon EVSE are to
>> be crushed after removal (not unlike the way EV1s had been
>> disposed of).
>>
>> I expressed that it was too bad that these old Avcon EVSE could not
>> be saved from that fate, by perhaps the Avcon male coupler loped
>> off, and then the rest of the EVSE used for retrofit by diy EV and
>> pih drivers. This would not only reduce the pollution of crushing
>> and disposing of them, but save a whole lot of money for diy
>> drivers who have already bravely paid the price for their new-ride.
>>
>> That idea did not fly. Though it was not said, I can only assume
>> there is some Government requirement to crush rather than re-use
>> them to get the funds (if so, don't you just love that lack of
>> common sense with our taxe$).
>>
>> It was discussed that Avcon EVSE other that the Avcon PowerPak
>> (i.e. evii ics-200 or ds-50) may need a different J1772 cable
>> clipper creek offers (my assumption this likely has something to
>> do with GM's proprietary Volt pish timing signal I have read about
>> in other forums).
>>
>> I suggested I could put together a web page with this information
>> on it because there are diy EV and pih drivers that would like to
>> jump on this idea. I was told that a board member will be putting
>> out an article on this in an up coming issue of EAA's CE newsletter.
>>
>>
>> ...
>> *If there are others that have detail I can use, or know of an
>> existing web site on the converting of old EVSE to the new J1772
>> coupler, please let me know.
>>
>> Also, since I did not see the aforementioned cables on the
>> clippercreek.com web site, I'll assume one will have to contact them
>> directly and sweet-talk your way into getting the correct cable. If
>> anyone finds out how this process works, please let me know so I can
>> document it for all to read. Perhaps someone knows of an alternative
>> source for a J1772 male coupler and cable assembly that would also
>> work for EVs and pihs, and a special on for GM's pish, but is easier
>> to obtain.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.150m.com}
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:58 -0600, "Stephan Grupp" <[email protected]>


> >> wrote:
> >>> Hi-
> >>> there are EV charges in my garage at work made by Avcom. They have these
> >>> large, trapezoidal block plugs. Does anyone know if a adapter for the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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dGluZm8vZXYK


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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dgo=


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sure, go to http://tucsonev.com/ and clik on the link at the right EVI-DS-50 Conversion to J1772

Very simple to do, instructions are right there.

Rush 
www.TucsonEV.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephan Grupp" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 2:58 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt


> Hi-
> there are EV charges in my garage at work made by Avcom. They have these
> large, trapezoidal block plugs. Does anyone know if a adapter for the Volt
> is available?
> thanks
> -steve
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Rush,

The reason I am being specific is to cover all bases. 

If a person does their own, an electrician may never open the box up 
to see if it passes electrical code unless there was a fire at their 
home. An insurance company, or a fire dept. examiner may get an 
electrician to check.


If you go to EVents or shows and want to plug in ...

If someone carried a retrofitted EVSE with them and pulled it out to 
use at a site that had a cautious staff, an electrician may want to 
open it up and check. 

I have had this happen many times at company EVents and shows where 
what their staff determines if you can or can not plug in. Back in 
those early days (1990's) of EVs being soo new, it only took one EV 
driver with some hairy, not to code wiring to leave an unforgettable 
bad taste in the host's mind (you may not get invited back again). We 
(our EAA Chapter members) fixed that quick and were electrical code 
legal before the next EVent.

I personally had a similar examination by my hp company EH&S man who 
pulled in a company electrician to check me for code. Thankfully, 
this was after the above EVent experience, and I knew I was 
electrical code legal.

In my career at hp I supported the server hardware at different hp 
sites at different times. Each time I was relocated to a site, I got 
the same full examination by their local EH&S person. Passed every 
time because I was electrical code legal.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment,_Health_and_Safety

In over fifteen years of EV driving and doing EVents and EV shows ...

I have never had an electrician want to check my battery cables nor 
tell me there is an electrician code on how to make them. They 
'always' seem to be interested in the AC power equipment that is 
plugging into their grid.


By the way, when I replaced my automotive lug battery cables for flat 
blade lug cables on my S-10 Blazer EV, I made them myself following 
the advice of a fellow EAA member. He had me crimp them with a 
special crimping tool for 00 cable 'and' solder them as well. They 
turned out very nice and were much cooler-temp after a long-highway 
or mountain-climbing run than the 00 battery cables than the Solar 
Electric EV-converter had originally made using a solder-only method.



{brucedp.150m.com}






> "Rush" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> > I honestly don't know about the crimping. I'm not aware of a section of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Rush has links of how-to for the evii ds-50 and the ics-200.
What we do not have access for all to see is the retrofit 
of an Avcon PowerPak.

The PowerPak has been converted over by two people I have
heard of, one of which is
http://www.recargo.com/sites/1970
"... Outside EVSE: J1772 is a converted Avcon Powerpak; 
it will charge a Leaf or Volt ..."

So, Steve, it looks like you have what you need to 
retrofit an Avcon PowerPak to have a J1772 coupler. 
Please take pictures of your retrofit, so the process 
can be documented. An let us know how it went.




{brucedp.150m.com}






> "sgrupp" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The power pak
> -
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Bruce -

Do you have the section or what ever of the code that specifcally deals with the AC connectons to an 
EV?

Thanks
Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't have the section of the code that deals with AC connections.

I was told word of mouth by two different EAA members that they 
needed to be crimped. One was an EE but he past away recently, 
so I can't ask him. 

Until I can talk with an electrician for clarification on what is the 
electrical code, it is my opinion that when I connect AC power
wires, I crimp and or screw down the connections.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Avcom-EV-adapter-for-Chevy-Volt-tp3672519p3673603.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Which code? I was under the impression that NEC specifically
was excluded from dealing with EV charging, or else we would
all be able to use NEMA 15-50 plugs just like RVs.
I have a 2011 NEC on my desk but I am traveling at the moment.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of brucedp5
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt

I don't have the section of the code that deals with AC connections.

I was told word of mouth by two different EAA members that they needed
to be crimped. One was an EE but he past away recently, so I can't ask
him. 

Until I can talk with an electrician for clarification on what is the
electrical code, it is my opinion that when I connect AC power wires, I
crimp and or screw down the connections.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Avcom-EV-ad
apter-for-Chevy-Volt-tp3672519p3673603.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the responses - its a great intro to the diy spirit of the EV
community and this listserve.

>From the linked pics above, it looks like the PowerPak is what we have.

Just to be clear, these PowerPaks are in a garage at my workplace (U Penn in
Philly), so I probably dont have the alternative to rewire the connections.
I would probably be dragged out in handcuffs...
-steve


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If I understood correctly, you think you won't be allowed to
retrofit and reuse the University's old Avcon EVSE?

A couple of thoughts come to mind:

-You inquire if the University was going to install any Charging
on campus. If yes, but budgets are tight right now type of 
response, you could offer to retrofit these at cost. You could 
and others could get a charge, and they would get the bragging 
rights.

I have experience getting my College to allow access to existing 
power. Before you ask, I would check for an available location 
and existing power. If you do all the work for them (finding the
spot, the power, where the EVSE would be mounted, is the spot 
rarely used, etc.) instead of leaving it up to them, they usually
see its is easy to say yes and them take all the credit for the 
idea. 

- You inquire if the University is going to use these useless old
boxes. If not, would they give or sell them to you cheap, so they
do not go to a landfill. You know the old reduce pollution, keep
the planet green, rah-rah-rah stuff (make them feel guilty so 
they say yes). 

Give them the Ol' Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Restore Shtick
http://www.greenfeet.net/newsletter/reduce-reuse-recycle.shtml
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtick




{brucedp.150m.com}




> "sgrupp" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
> > Just to be clear, these PowerPaks are in a garage at my workplace (U Penn
> > in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is nothing in the NEC about this issue that I know of - maybe Roland 
can comment on that.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "brucedp5" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt


>I don't have the section of the code that deals with AC connections.
>
> I was told word of mouth by two different EAA members that they
> needed to be crimped. One was an EE but he past away recently,
> so I can't ask him.
>
> Until I can talk with an electrician for clarification on what is the
> electrical code, it is my opinion that when I connect AC power
> wires, I crimp and or screw down the connections.
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Avcom-EV-adapter-for-Chevy-Volt-tp3672519p3673603.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think you can convert an old AVCON to meet NEC. But only need to (per the
code) if it is permanently installed, which the code requires. However if
you just put a 14-50 on it then the AVCON just becomes an appliance and
therefor not covered under the code. I do not the the code precludes one
from plugging in an onboard charger for a car into a properly wired 14-50
outlet. I think the only hang up an inspector might have with a converted
AVCON mounted to your wall with a 14-50 going to the wall is that the code
says that it must be permanently mounted. I think the only way to get
around this is to mount it in your car.

I did a conversion of one of these for Rich at Manzanita (he had a dual port
unit but we only did one of the cables), and Dave Kois at Current EV Tech.
I would just mount one of these to a cheap dolly/hand truck, put a 14-50 on
it and consider it a portable charge port.

Mike



> joe <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > There is nothing in the NEC about this issue that I know of - maybe Roland
> > can comment on that.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What you need is an AVCON to J1772-2010 adapter. EAA _used_ to sell an
adapter box that converted the AVCON to NEMA 14-50, along with the
stand-alone AVCON inlet.

If you could find one of those, a recent article in CurrentEVents detailed
how to modify the adapter box to allow it to work with the new crop of
J1772-2010 compliant cars. (I am just finishing up my adapter box, having
removed the AVCON inlet from my 914.)

I should be able to test it with my Volt in a few days at some of the AVCON
charging stations around here, I'll report back on the results.

Mike Scott in SJ, CA
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mike Willmon wrote:
> 
> > I think the only hang up an inspector might have with a converted
> > AVCON mounted to your wall with a 14-50 going to the wall is that the code
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Leviton has apparently figured out another way to get around it with their cord-connected 
> "evr-green" home charging stations: use a locking cover over the plug/receptacle that feeds the 
> EVSE:
>
> <http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=34759&minisite=10091>
>
> <http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=34834&minisite=10091>
>

Here's a less expensive solution -

I had seen this before and quickly checked it out. They presently only offer a 204 vac 16 amp EVSE, 
in 2 versions. 1 version has a pig tail on the end which can be hard wired to a circuit, the other 
has a NEMA 6-20 plug on the end of it. The plug can connect to their pre wire installation kit, 
which is presently only available in a 20 amp version and costs $79.99 (plus shipping). It has a 
Mounting plate (which also comes with the EVSE), a receptacle, an electrical box and the cover plate 
with a plastic door/cover.

Nothing really fantastic here... when I put in my 240 vac 50 amp outdoor plug welding, I used a 
Eaton Cutler-Hammer 50 amp Outlet Box - $23.60 (pick it up) today at Home Depot.

So I guess the outlet box also gets around the problem at less than 1/3 the price.

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com 

_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 18 Jul 2011 at 10:48, Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > Leviton has apparently figured out another way to get around it with their
> > cord-connected "evr-green" home charging stations ...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Has anyone called them to see how much that sells for? SPX has a 32A
plug-in, called Power Xpress at:

https://www.homecharging.spx.com/volt/Display.aspx?id=6&menu=2

but they want $749 for it. A 16A version is all that I need.

I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a 14-50
plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI DCS-55 and
charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came home with more range
than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and want to find an affordable
system. Level 1 works great during the week, but can't keep up on the
weekends!

Mike Scott in SJ, CA



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Mike Willmon wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a 14-50
> plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI DCS-55 and
> charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came home with more range
> than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and want to find an affordable
> system. Level 1 works great during the week, but can't keep up on the
> weekends!

I've been looking into the DC fast charging, CHAdeMO, and came across this pdf that, while a couple 
years old, has some interesting info in it. The link to it is
http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentations_en/S12/PHEV09-S123_TakafumiAnegawa.pdf

It's a presentation by the Tokyo Electric Power Company.

I'm specifically talking about page 12 that shows the travel range of EV's before quick charging and 
compared to page 13 that shows the travel range after quick charging was installed in a specific 
area, a 700% increase.

And look at page 14 that shows the State of Charge (SOC) that the vehicles came back with before and 
after the quick chargers were installed. The drivers are much more confident about finding a charge 
station and only spending 10 minutes or so at the EVSE to get to where they want to go, no range 
anxiety.

Scott, if you're happy with Level 2, think how much happier you'd be with Level 3.

So who is working on a DC/DC charging system for an EV?

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Rush,
This link appeared to be dead.
The conference itself is still on EMC-MEC website:
http://www.emc-mec.ca/eng/phev09.php
but the button to get the proceedings does not work for me.
I searched a bit further and found that there needs to be
a dash between the 12 and the 3, I could get the PDF from
the link address:
http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentations_en/S12/PHEV09-S12-3_TakafumiAne
gawa.pdf 


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:18 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt

> I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a 
> 14-50 plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI 
> DCS-55 and charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came 
> home with more range than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and 
> want to find an affordable system. Level 1 works great during the 
> week, but can't keep up on the weekends!

I've been looking into the DC fast charging, CHAdeMO, and came across
this pdf that, while a couple years old, has some interesting info in
it. The link to it is
http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentations_en/S12/PHEV09-S123_TakafumiAneg
awa.pdf

It's a presentation by the Tokyo Electric Power Company.

I'm specifically talking about page 12 that shows the travel range of
EV's before quick charging and compared to page 13 that shows the travel
range after quick charging was installed in a specific area, a 700%
increase.

And look at page 14 that shows the State of Charge (SOC) that the
vehicles came back with before and after the quick chargers were
installed. The drivers are much more confident about finding a charge
station and only spending 10 minutes or so at the EVSE to get to where
they want to go, no range anxiety.

Scott, if you're happy with Level 2, think how much happier you'd be
with Level 3.

So who is working on a DC/DC charging system for an EV?

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Cor,

Thanks, guess I need to work on my copy and paste skills...
You're right about the -3, it needs to be in there.

http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentations_en/S12/PHEV09-S12-3_TakafumiAnegawa.pdf

Thanks 
Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt


> Hi Rush,
> This link appeared to be dead.
> The conference itself is still on EMC-MEC website:
> http://www.emc-mec.ca/eng/phev09.php
> but the button to get the proceedings does not work for me.
> I searched a bit further and found that there needs to be
> a dash between the 12 and the 3, I could get the PDF from
> the link address:
> http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentations_en/S12/PHEV09-S12-3_TakafumiAne
> gawa.pdf 
> 
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Rush
> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:18 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt
> 
>> I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a 
>> 14-50 plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI 
>> DCS-55 and charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came 
>> home with more range than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and 
>> want to find an affordable system. Level 1 works great during the 
>> week, but can't keep up on the weekends!
> 
> I've been looking into the DC fast charging, CHAdeMO, and came across
> this pdf that, while a couple years old, has some interesting info in
> it. The link to it is
> http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentations_en/S12/PHEV09-S123_TakafumiAneg
> awa.pdf
> 
> It's a presentation by the Tokyo Electric Power Company.
> 
> I'm specifically talking about page 12 that shows the travel range of
> EV's before quick charging and compared to page 13 that shows the travel
> range after quick charging was installed in a specific area, a 700%
> increase.
> 
> And look at page 14 that shows the State of Charge (SOC) that the
> vehicles came back with before and after the quick chargers were
> installed. The drivers are much more confident about finding a charge
> station and only spending 10 minutes or so at the EVSE to get to where
> they want to go, no range anxiety.
> 
> Scott, if you're happy with Level 2, think how much happier you'd be
> with Level 3.
> 
> So who is working on a DC/DC charging system for an EV?
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>

_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

According to this site, the Leviton stations will be $1,049. -

http://www.allcarselectric.com/news/1063093_leviton-announces-1049-diy-install-electric-car-charging-station


But it appears that you'll also also need the 'install kit'; a wall hanger and 
waterproof 240v outlet.

Tom Keenan



----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Scott <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 10:08:50 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt

Has anyone called them to see how much that sells for? SPX has a 32A
plug-in, called Power Xpress at:

https://www.homecharging.spx.com/volt/Display.aspx?id=6&menu=2

but they want $749 for it. A 16A version is all that I need.

I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a 14-50
plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI DCS-55 and
charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came home with more range
than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and want to find an affordable
system. Level 1 works great during the week, but can't keep up on the
weekends!

Mike Scott in SJ, CA

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I suppose that this "charging station" is just a
sheet metal box with a pilot generator and a
contactor, so I expect that now that the target is
set, others will come with cost-reduced versions
of the same....
(Or maybe a parts kit, so you can DIY assemble it)

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Tom Keenan
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:30 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt

According to this site, the Leviton stations will be $1,049. -

http://www.allcarselectric.com/news/1063093_leviton-announces-1049-diy-i
nstall-electric-car-charging-station


But it appears that you'll also also need the 'install kit'; a wall
hanger and waterproof 240v outlet.

Tom Keenan



----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Scott <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 10:08:50 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt

Has anyone called them to see how much that sells for? SPX has a 32A
plug-in, called Power Xpress at:

https://www.homecharging.spx.com/volt/Display.aspx?id=6&menu=2

but they want $749 for it. A 16A version is all that I need.

I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a
14-50 plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI
DCS-55 and charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came home
with more range than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and want to
find an affordable system. Level 1 works great during the week, but
can't keep up on the weekends!

Mike Scott in SJ, CA

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 19 Jul 2011 at 5:05, Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > others will come with cost-reduced versions of the same....
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The $1,049.00 is the list price. Electrical devices such as circuit 
breakers, switches and lamps are normally mark up as high as 100% over 
wholesale.

The wholesaler purchases it from the factory for about $250-300.00 and sells 
it to a electrical shop installer for $500-600.00. The factory cost is about 
$125.00 to $150.00.

I have seen places like Home Depot sell electrical items less than a local 
electrical whole sale house, because they can purchase in very large 
quantity's.

When I was working on very large electrical projects where we need large 
amount of supplies, the factory delivery the items in there own supply 
trailers right to the job site. The local electrical supply house that 
handle the same type of equipment was paid about 5 percent of the factory 
cost.

If you need a electrical shop to install this item, you may get it install 
for less than the list cost of the item because they can purchase it for 
about 50% of the list cost.

There is industrial versions of these devices we install made by Power 
Anderson Co. in aircraft hangers and ramps. We always bought them factory 
un-assembly because this again reduces the cost of the item another 50 
percent.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt


> According to this site, the Leviton stations will be $1,049. -
>
> http://www.allcarselectric.com/news/1063093_leviton-announces-1049-diy-install-electric-car-charging-station
>
>
> But it appears that you'll also also need the 'install kit'; a wall hanger 
> and
> waterproof 240v outlet.
>
> Tom Keenan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Scott <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 10:08:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt
>
> Has anyone called them to see how much that sells for? SPX has a 32A
> plug-in, called Power Xpress at:
>
> https://www.homecharging.spx.com/volt/Display.aspx?id=6&menu=2
>
> but they want $749 for it. A 16A version is all that I need.
>
> I tested my Avcon adapter box (with 14-50 outlet) and a cable with a 14-50
> plug wired to the J1772 spigot just now. Connected to an EVI DCS-55 and
> charged the Volt for an hour with no problem. Even came home with more 
> range
> than when I left, so I'm sold on Level 2, and want to find an affordable
> system. Level 1 works great during the week, but can't keep up on the
> weekends!
>
> Mike Scott in SJ, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would argue that an onboard charger is not EVSE as defined under NEC.
EVSE (except for 120VAC units that can be cord and plug connected) must be
hard mounted and fixed wired. The Electric Vehicle Connector by the
definition is a device that inserts into and Electric Vehicle Inlet. I
would argue that a 14-50 plug on the end of a cord coming from an onboard
charger is not an Electric Vehicle Connector, it is a utility device in
which it is suitable to use cord and pendant cable.

Further, are you not allowed to used cable with a more stringent
specification than the one that is prescribed? When I look at
the requirements in table 400 I see that STOW is basically the same as any
of the EV cords until you get larger than #2AWG.

I would say that if you hard wire your charge port then it becomes an EVSE
and must meet the NEC requirements. If your Charger is onboard, then it is
a utility device just as your dryer or range. You should be able to plug
into any appropriately rated indoor or outdoor NEMA 14-50 outlet.

Now NEC may "recommend" that 240VAC EVSE's can not be cord and plug
connected, but I think it could be argued just like with portable equipment
that if the device is portable it may be allowed to be cord and plug
connected.

I asked all these questions to the NEC instructor at the 2011 code review
course I took a few months ago. But he couldn't answer the questions and
said he'd find out. I think if the instructors that teach the course cannot
readily answer these questions then maybe there will be changes, or at least
clarifications in future revisions. It appears they have already relaxed
some of the initial outlandish requirements since they first introduced 625.

Mike



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 7/18/2011 12:13 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
> > > I do not [think] the code precludes one
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>> I do not [think] the code precludes one
>> from plugging in an onboard charger for a car into a properly wired 14-50
>> outlet.
>
> Yes, it does. NEC Article 625-15 and 625-16 require that you use a
> special EV cord and connector, marked and listed specifically to charge EVs.

Also 625-13 - "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. Electric vehicle supply equipment rated at 125 
volt, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes or part of a system identified and listed as suitable for the 
purpose and meeting the requirements of Sections 625-18. 625-19. and 625-29 shall be permitted to be 
cord and plug connected. All other electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permanently connected 
and fastened in place. This equipment shall have no exposed live parts."

So it looks like unless "a properly wired 14-50 outlet" is considered to be "permanently connected 
and fastened in place", it is in violation of the NEC Code pertaining to J1772 EVSE's.

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > > You should be able to plug into any appropriately rated indoor or
> > > outdoor NEMA 14-50 outlet.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a Blinki unit installed. The unit, apparently like Leviton, comes
with a short cord and plug. The installer secured a junction box with a
plastic bubble cover to an exterior wall and simply plugged the unit in.
(Also secured the unit to the wall). The bubble cover is not lockable,
though it does have a plastic latch. Apparently this is ok and also passed
inspection by the local authority.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roger Stockton
Sent: 19 July, 2011 2:10 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt



> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > > You should be able to plug into any appropriately rated indoor or
> > > outdoor NEMA 14-50 outlet.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I asked another company about this too once, was told that the length
of the cord is critical, has to be less than two feet or something.





> Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >> > You should be able to plug into any appropriately rated indoor or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The definition of Electric Vehicle Connector states " A device that, by
insertion into an electric vehicle inlet..."

The definition of Electric Vehicle Inlet states "The device on an electric
vehicle into which the electric vehicle connector is inserted for power
transfer and information exchange. This device is part of the electric
vehicle coupler. For the purposes of this Code, the electric vehicle inlet
is considered to be part of the electric vehicle and not part of the
electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE)".

I take that to mean that the cord coming from my charger that is permanently
mounted to the car, to point on the end of my SOW cord with a NEMA 14-50
"plug" on it is not part of the EVSE and does not specifically have to
conform to Article 625.

And thus iff the 14-50 outlet permanently installed in my garage is properly
installed for the utilitarian purposes to which it was designed, then you
must say nothing more to the inspector then "yes, that is my utility
outlet". If you take a device that is made to be permanently mounted, put
it on wheels so it is "portable" then in most cases you can get by with
making it "cord and plug" connectable. Miller welder on wheels, cord and
plug connectable. Commercial clothes drier on wheels, cord and plug
connectable. High pressure air compressor on wheels, cord and plug
connectable. Battery powered DC motor controller on wheels (with onboard
charger) plug and cord connectable.

You are correct Lee, the 14-50 outlet in your garage is not an EVSE. While
EVSE equipment is designed specifically to charge EV's, nothing in the code
says that you must use an EVSE to charge your car.

Mike





> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > > I would argue that a 14-50 plug on the end
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok, so does that mean that the cord has to be permanently attached to the
charger (as you implied)? If not, doesn't it fall into the category of an
ESVE (even if it is just insulated copper)? 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mike Willmon
Sent: 19 July, 2011 2:57 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Avcom EV adapter for Chevy Volt

The definition of Electric Vehicle Connector states " A device that, by
insertion into an electric vehicle inlet..."

The definition of Electric Vehicle Inlet states "The device on an electric
vehicle into which the electric vehicle connector is inserted for power
transfer and information exchange. This device is part of the electric
vehicle coupler. For the purposes of this Code, the electric vehicle inlet
is considered to be part of the electric vehicle and not part of the
electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE)".

I take that to mean that the cord coming from my charger that is permanently
mounted to the car, to point on the end of my SOW cord with a NEMA 14-50
"plug" on it is not part of the EVSE and does not specifically have to
conform to Article 625.

And thus iff the 14-50 outlet permanently installed in my garage is properly
installed for the utilitarian purposes to which it was designed, then you
must say nothing more to the inspector then "yes, that is my utility
outlet". If you take a device that is made to be permanently mounted, put
it on wheels so it is "portable" then in most cases you can get by with
making it "cord and plug" connectable. Miller welder on wheels, cord and
plug connectable. Commercial clothes drier on wheels, cord and plug
connectable. High pressure air compressor on wheels, cord and plug
connectable. Battery powered DC motor controller on wheels (with onboard
charger) plug and cord connectable.

You are correct Lee, the 14-50 outlet in your garage is not an EVSE. While
EVSE equipment is designed specifically to charge EV's, nothing in the code
says that you must use an EVSE to charge your car.

Mike





> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > > I would argue that a 14-50 plug on the end of a cord coming from an
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think a cord set coming from an "EVSE" is part of the EVSE and subject to
625. But I think an extension cord running from a plug on your wall to a
utility device is just an extension cord. Plugging in your galf cart is not
regulated, neither is your electric lawn mower or eGo bike. Your car is no
different. Its an appliance.

Thats what I argue anyway.

Mike



> Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Ok, so does that mean that the cord has to be permanently attached to the
> > charger (as you implied)? If not, doesn't it fall into the category of an
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

And actually, most inspectors appreciate something that looks safe and makes
it easy for them to justify as "acceptable" ;-)

Mike



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 7/19/2011 4:56 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
> > > The definition of Electric Vehicle Connector states " A device that, by
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

But the case doesn't have to be made to the NFPA though. It has to be made
to your municipality compliance office. The NEC Code is a "recommended
practice", not a law. At worst case you can go to a city meeting to voice
your concerns. I think most on a city Board would be accepting of this
argument about cars being no different and allowing their inspector to
Accept "cord and plug connectable" devices in the 240 V range. So far its
been 6 years and I haven't had a run in with an inspector yet. In fact the
one inspector that did come to my house when I was selling it saw the cars
and wanted to know all about them. Never once did he say "hey, where's your
EVSE" ;-)

Mike



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 7/19/2011 5:28 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
> > > I think a cord set coming from an "EVSE" is part of the EVSE and subject
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > I guess anything is possible if you're big enough and have enough
> > political "muscle". Leviton is big enough; they have people on the NEC
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes. Instead of hard wiring the service wires to the box, they cord and
plug connect it, but lock the connection up in a box. I think this makes it
to where most people "could" install it themselves without having to pay $$$
for an electrician. The other side of the EVSE, the Electric Vehicle
Connector, is the J1772 connector with the handshaking circuitry to
disconnect power in case of roll away.



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Its basically the same as the hack jobs we are doing to the old AVCON boxes
which is the subject of this thread 

Mike



> Mike Willmon <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Yes. Instead of hard wiring the service wires to the box, they cord and
> > plug connect it, but lock the connection up in a box. I think this makes it
> ...


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