# Anyone purchase Sinopoly Battery direct yet?



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Just emailed them for a quote for delivery to US. Will post what I find out but curious if anyone else has done so yet.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Skooler on here (UK based) has dealt with them, he's offering services as a worldwide supplier, might be worth talking to him.

I've also corresponded with them via e-mail, seem to be pleasant enough to deal with, but I havn't bought from them personally yet.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

favguy said:


> Skooler on here (UK based) has dealt with them, he's offering services as a worldwide supplier, might be worth talking to him.
> 
> I've also corresponded with them via e-mail, seem to be pleasant enough to deal with, but I havn't bought from them personally yet.


When you have a warranty problem or lack of support, dont come to this forum crying like everybody has in the past. That includes the Dave purchases from Seattle. Its all about money until you feel screwed.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Warranty is surely one reason to buy from a dealer in your own country. Otherwise the shipper will handle getting it to you but if you need to return something to China, who knows what you'll have to deal with. But for my small purchase I'll gamble on that one and bypass the dealer. 

I checked into becoming a dealer for Calb in the eastern US but Keegan wouldn't discount it enough for it to be worth my time. It's hard to make a business work on 1 or 2% markup. That will hardly even cover the administrative costs!


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> Warranty is surely one reason to buy from a dealer in your own country. Otherwise the shipper will handle getting it to you but if you need to return something to China, who knows what you'll have to deal with. But for my small purchase I'll gamble on that one and bypass the dealer.
> 
> I checked into becoming a dealer for Calb in the eastern US but Keegan wouldn't discount it enough for it to be worth my time. It's hard to make a business work on 1 or 2% markup. That will hardly even cover the administrative costs!


I have been selling for Keegan for a long time, what choices do you have if you want to sell batteries. I have been selling EV conversion products for 8 years without a web page because I give 100% service with my EV conversion teaching experience and interest in helping others. Even with small returns, its enjoyable when customers show their appreciation.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

cruisin said:


> I have been selling for Keegan for a long time, what choices do you have if you want to sell batteries. I have been selling EV conversion products for 8 years without a web page because I give 100% service with my EV conversion teaching experience and interest in helping others. Even with small returns, its enjoyable when customers show their appreciation.


Well you can do that from your home provided you have a regular job and don't do the legally required tax paperwork but trying to make a living with it requires a little more than that. Filing the appropriate sales tax forms, paying for a building, phone lines, liability and other insurances, professional accounting services & administrative costs etc adds up. And you have to make a profit after all those costs in order to buy groceries. 

I have a building and another business so it wouldn't be a big burden on me to do it but at 1 or 2% markup if I spend my time on the phone ordering, selling and handling the stuff as it comes in I'll lose money I could be making with my other business. For it to be profitable I'd need to make 15% or so off it. And I'm not the sort of person to try and gouge people, can't do that. If I sell something I want it to be a fair price. And I'm a believer in customer satisfaction as well. And no matter how hard you try, someone is going to get pissed and want their money back or something else happens and somehow you'll lose money somewhere along the line. To cover those things you MUST make a nominal profit.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> Well you can do that from your home provided you have a regular job and don't do the legally required tax paperwork but trying to make a living with it requires a little more than that. Filing the appropriate sales tax forms, paying for a building, phone lines, liability and other insurances, professional accounting services & administrative costs etc adds up. And you have to make a profit after all those costs in order to buy groceries.
> 
> I have a building and another business so it wouldn't be a big burden on me to do it but at 1 or 2% markup if I spend my time on the phone ordering, selling and handling the stuff as it comes in I'll lose money I could be making with my other business. For it to be profitable I'd need to make 15% or so off it. And I'm not the sort of person to try and gouge people, can't do that. If I sell something I want it to be a fair price. And I'm a believer in customer satisfaction as well. And no matter how hard you try, someone is going to get pissed and want their money back or something else happens and somehow you'll lose money somewhere along the line. To cover those things you MUST make a nominal profit.


I agree with you 100%. I do have all the expenses you mentioned and dont have a day job other than this. I guess I am just in the wrong business. I was in the computer business until the chinese made it imposible for me to make a profit too. Wrong business decisions.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Well start the US Sinopoly operation. I need some 100-200Ah now for some equipment but I'm looking to pay around $1.10 or less if I can.  Otherwise I'll wait a while.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> Well start the US Sinopoly operation. I need some 100-200Ah now for some equipment but I'm looking to pay around $1.10 or less if I can.  Otherwise I'll wait a while.


How are you going to handle the DOA or troublesome cell under a non existant warranty offshore? Even with CALB it can be difficult since the US office doesnt have the authority to replace cells. Dealing with China can be a nightmare at the least. I would suggest that we not buy from the China manufacturers of batteries which will encourage them to set up distribution in the US if they want to sell here. I talked them about this possibility of distribution, but they dont operate the US way in the selling of product. Its their way or no way. Lets not forget Seattle and those on this forum who sold for them. Even though it was a little differant, lets not let that happen again.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Got a reply from Sinopoly overnight. I had asked them for a delivered price to my US zip code. They offered to sell them at $1.20 for 8 cells sans shipping costs, called that amount a "sample" and didn't mention any fees. I told them I was expecting $1.00-1.05 based on what I had read and at that price I wasn't interested. 

Also told them I had other projects I could use batteries in but prices needed to come down first.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

> Dealing with China can be a nightmare at the least.


Dealing with China has been less a nightmare than dealing with US dealers. I will continue to deal with China as needed. Still waiting to hear if they will sell and ship Sinopoly cells. 

Pete


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

gottdi,

Skooler in the UK has bought from them, they are currently en route to him as far as I know.

Electricar,

You can buy a pack from sinopoly at $1.10 or less, they might be asking for more from you due to the low volume, I'll be interested to see what they come back with once haggling is over.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Dealing with China has been less a nightmare than dealing with US dealers. I will continue to deal with China as needed. Still waiting to hear if they will sell and ship Sinopoly cells.
> 
> Pete


See my thread under the Batteries section. Yes, they will.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

So I have heard but so far no real cells in hand yet. Been this way since we heard about Sinopoly. Once they showed up on the market they have not sold a single cell to anyone. we are still waiting. 

They must have a real slow boat.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

ElectriCar said:


> See my thread under the Batteries section. Yes, they will.


No, I don't think I did. I'm sure they will but it's been a very long time coming.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> Got a reply from Sinopoly overnight. I had asked them for a delivered price to my US zip code. They offered to sell them at $1.20 for 8 cells sans shipping costs, called that amount a "sample" and didn't mention any fees. I told them I was expecting $1.00-1.05 based on what I had read and at that price I wasn't interested.
> 
> Also told them I had other projects I could use batteries in but prices needed to come down first.


In my opinion, its not worth the gamble. Is there a advantage in buying Sinopoly that is worth the savings over CALIB if any?


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

We won't know until we get our hands on some now will we!


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

cruisin said:


> In my opinion, its not worth the gamble. Is there a advantage in buying Sinopoly that is worth the savings over CALIB if any?


There is no Gamble if they are not selling or shipping any cells. Sometimes price is all it takes. If Sinopoly is the same or better quality and a bit cheaper then Sinopoly it will be. I want some to test. 

Pete


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

gottdi said:


> There is no Gamble if they are not selling or shipping any cells. Sometimes price is all it takes. If Sinopoly is the same or better quality and a bit cheaper then Sinopoly it will be. I want some to test.
> 
> Pete


 
Why havent you wired them the money then, since you trust them and want the batteries? We are waiting for you to say they are on the way. If not, why?


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

Well I was waiting for you?  

I am going to be but I must do a few things first. I am sure someone else will be first anyway. But I will be. It's not that I don't trust them either. It's that they are not selling them. Can't buy it if they won't sell it. I'd rather they not sell than take money and not ship.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

gottdi said:


> Well I was waiting for you?
> 
> I am going to be but I must do a few things first. I am sure someone else will be first anyway. But I will be. It's not that I don't trust them either. It's that they are not selling them. Can't buy it if they won't sell it. I'd rather they not sell than take money and not ship.


Why are you saying they are not selling them? They are offering them for sale, its just that nobody has bought them yet because of the chicken and the egg of nobody wanting to be the first person to buy the cells.

They make the cells and its clear that they exist.
http://www.sinopolybattery.com/html/products_testings.php


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

I know they exist and that they site says they are for sale but to date not a single sole has received any. They have been making them since last year. There is a serious hold up and I am sure it is a legal issue with all the other companies involved. Really sucks. 

Patiently waiting. 

Well dammit I guess I will be the first. I can do that.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2011)

Looks like the site is still showing the yellow TS batteries and the same old specs. I want the black cells or what ever color they are going to be. So without further ado I will not bother. 

Pete


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

gottdi said:


> Looks like the site is still showing the yellow TS batteries and the same old specs. I want the black cells or what ever color they are going to be. So without further ado I will not bother.
> 
> Pete


Are you serious? We already know from the guy in Sweden who got them last month that they are being delivered in Black. You won't bother based on the color of the cell? I've contacted them about their pouch cells and gotten the extended version of some specsheets, if you contact them they have a pretty good turnaround time with their emails. I'm not ready for the project I'm looking to do with them or I would have ordered some. Granted I'm in a similar boat and would like to deal with a US dealer too expecially since my order is small and having it combined with a larger order would be more cost effective and I don't have to deal with customs but apparently its not that bad shipped by air, just a higher price but much more convenient for a person like me considering I'm in Minnesota and very land-locked far away from US ports.

Here, check this out
http://translate.google.com/transla...elbil.forum24.se/elbil-about3286.html&act=url

...or the non-translated page
http://elbil.forum24.se/elbil-about3286.html

Images if you don't want to read stuff.
http://postimage.org/image/144n5rkw4/
http://postimage.org/image/144otaxdw/

Soon enough Jack will see someone in the US got some cells, he will order a bunch and say that they are black which makes them disappear, then we will have a bunch of people ordering them.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Thought I would chime in...

I have wired funds to Sinopoly, I am awaiting delivery for my own conversion, some stock and for a local photo-voltaic company to trial some cells. Because of the amount of cells, Christmas and the Chinese new year I am not expecting these cells until March. I'm in no rush as i have no confirmed orders yet so its not a problem!

I'm possibly getting six 60AH cells within six weeks but I havent really been chasing them due to the Christmas break.

I will test these cells on behalf of the community and post up results, pictures, videos etc.

Does anyone have any specific tests they would like done once these arrive? I have most of the kit for what I can think of.

The specsheet for the 200AH black cell is below:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B-qCHtk0zv3ENTZkYzU4NmMtNTNiNy00ZDNjLThjMjgtODU3YzVjZTBhZWJm&hl=en_US

Cheers,

Mike


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Skooler, Thanks for the offer of testing the cells. I think most of us would be interested in the typical tests of capacity and performance under load(such as 5C for 10 seconds if possible recording the voltage under load). I'm curious about the voltage drop under extreme cold(worst day of the winter type stuff like -30c or the coldest setting your freezer could manage) but then again we don't have much to compare it to since there isn't really data out there but it would still be great to have.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow these guys aren't in it to sell batteries I don't guess. They wanted $600 to ship eight 200Ah cells plus the above cost for the batteries. 

Calb included the freight to the US in their cell costs. I only had to pay freight from California to South Carolina.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2012)

> They wanted $600 to ship eight 200Ah cells plus the above cost for the batteries.


Whats the plus the above cost? Is the $600 just for shipping costs on top of the cost of the cells? How much for the cells? Your leaving out some important information. 

Pete


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> Wow these guys aren't in it to sell batteries I don't guess. They wanted $600 to ship eight 200Ah cells plus the above cost for the batteries.
> 
> Calb included the freight to the US in their cell costs. I only had to pay freight from California to South Carolina.


Keep in mind, there is a significant difference.

You were buying a small sale, small quantities to small customers cost more to them. If you built flashlights for a living and you took the phone call from everyone who wants a flash light, spent the time to build one at a time, fill out their order form one at a time, ship a separate uncombined package and boxing, labeling, etc one at a time. You have far less cost of business when you have the time to actually build the flashlights rather than dealing with the logistics. If the guy found a distributor or even a stock that wanted to stock your flashlights, now the cost is gone from the producer, which will always have challenges effectively communicating with end-users directly. Since a company like CALIB has everything sent in a big batch, CALB will sell those cells to them at a lower price since it costs less to build an order of 1000 of something rather than 8 cells. CALIB is a distributor though so their costs are smaller because they would essentially be handling the individual customer and equipped to manage the boxing, shipping, payment, and end-user support with people more fluent in the language of who they are selling to. I'd imagine that selling to the US and trying to translate difficult technical questions to our language from the Chinese language and then trying to translate them back, meanwhile dealing with a social culture so different from ours.

I may have gotten lengthy with that but after working by myself as an entrepreneur doing the work of an entire business without any help but in a different setting where I also working, doing essentially the same thing, but having a secretary make the calls, a person dealing with customer delivery, and having more than one person to spread the role and help deal with expansion. When you have less time or a company with less ability to deal with small customers from a cost, time, and resource standpoint usually you aim away from them a little bit.

If you want some history of this in the battery industry, I suggest you try to locate the original ThunderSky group buys in the mid-2000's of the White lithium-ion cells before they released the LiFePO4. They were priced the same way where if you could buy a whole bunch of Ah the price gets better. There was a big table of the price per Ah back in an order that was about 2005, the price was much more then but you got a sweet deal if there is plenty of quantity.

This is why the company that scammed many in this community sold them cheaper than any of the people around now, they had a seriously large order quantity at the time and I think they were selling more batteries than any of the US distributors are, probably even CALIB. If we get a US distributor that is worth buying from at a price that will entice people so they feel like they are getting a good deal, then we will be moving along at that point and if there are high enough quantities around then the manufacturer gives a better price to that distributor.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Whats the plus the above cost? Is the $600 just for shipping costs on top of the cost of the cells? How much for the cells? Your leaving out some important information.
> 
> Pete


No, I didn't leave it out, it's at post #10, $1.20/Ah.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

MN I'm aware this is not a huge order but it does amount to nearly $2000, to Chinese no less who work for a few dollars a month. Quite a bit more than a 99c flashlight, particularly for Chinese...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

*to Chinese no less who work for a few dollars a month.

*I think you will find that the ones who know one end of a wrench from another are getting a lot more than that

I heard maintenance guys in Shaghai were getting $40(US) an hour


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

$600 for shipping seems to much of a coincidence to me!

My first larger order was $600 shipping. I was then quoted $560 shipping for 30 x 60AH cells (to the UK).

Seems to me they are using a flat price for shipping.

Interesting!

Cheers,

Mike


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Could be anything I guess. $40/hr? That's awesome, but I can see it if that's what they have to pay for someone skilled enough to do the job, and he may be from another country. 

I did read there was a shortage of help overthere before the world slipped into a recession. Now they are closing plants in China all over the place, imagine that, in China!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The main reason chinese plants are closing is because they were built using printed money, like our stimulus bills. They build up cities, factories, and maglev trains to connect them without having any demand or purpose for them, just the hope of being (more of) a manufacturing superpower. The depression didn't help the lack of demand any.

We still need some OEMs to decide to start using real EV cells; then we can get some chinese factories and american warehouses filled.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

We have just been quoted $1.02/AH at quantity of 1000 (of 100AH cells), delivered to CA. Hope this helps. 1 year warranty. Seems like a good opportunity for someone with capital to fund large orders and then reselling in single-conversion quantity... definitely easier to make $ than dealing with CALB for a few %...


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Like the price but not Warren Buffet or Bill Gates here. At least we know they can be made and sold for that amount.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ElectriCar said:


> Like the price but not Warren Buffet or Bill Gates here. At least we know they can be made and sold for that amount.


;-))

but that says that a group buy is within reach...


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi All,

Just wanted to say, I questioned the shipping cost with Sinopoly for a couple of orders and they reduced the shipping on my smaller order my $250 and by $100 on my larger order

So for 30, 60AH cells the shipping to the UK is $350, much more reasonable.

Cheers,

Mike


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> I checked into becoming a dealer for Calb in the eastern US but Keegan wouldn't discount it enough for it to be worth my time. It's hard to make a business work on 1 or 2% markup. That will hardly even cover the administrative costs!


Can't say I'm surprised. Since we can buy directly from Calib it would be hard to compete and make a profit.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sinopoly's in an EV http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=277767&postcount=6


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Sinopoly's in an EV http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=277767&postcount=6


Are those the slim (34mm width) 60 amp hour Sinopoly SP-LFP60AHA(B) cells?

If so I am very interested in learning how they work out. What are the actual dimensions? Is the terminal bolt still the M6 size? What is the internal resistance?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You might try asking the purchaser in his thread


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

so, if we buy a large lot, will people be interested in ordering from us? I think we could offer EV-size packs at $1.1/AH. It will be 100AH cells if we decide to do this since this is what we use in our BMW conversions.

let me know.

Valery


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Valery I read in JR's blog that they were selling them near $1US. If you can get a large enough order to persuade them to come down to that amount or less they yes you could probably sell them at that price and make a little for your trouble. Good luck. 

I'm holding out for even better pricing. As much as it pains me I purchased a Trojan for a piece of equipment I had thought of converting to Lithium. Just wasn't practical at todays price for what it's used for. I'd need 8 200Ah cells for the applicaton.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ElectriCar said:


> Valery I read in JR's blog that they were selling them near $1US. If you can get a large enough order to persuade them to come down to that amount or less they yes you could probably sell them at that price and make a little for your trouble. Good luck.
> 
> I'm holding out for even better pricing. As much as it pains me I purchased a Trojan for a piece of equipment I had thought of converting to Lithium. Just wasn't practical at todays price for what it's used for. I'd need 8 200Ah cells for the applicaton.


of course better pricing would be good ;-)

but even at $1.1 this would be substantially lower than the next alternative...


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2012)

I am interested but I'd like to see some quick testing. I'd like to send a couple to Jack for testing and for the show. Now mind you he will need to replace his test equipment first. I am very interested in these cells for my Bus Project. For my other project I am interested in the A123 cells. Sort range but high power. 

Pete


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

As soon as I get measurements I'll be interested for my motorcycle project.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ok guys. what measurements or what parameters are you looking for and what would be satisfactory performance against those parameters for you to make a decision?


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Last time I checked out the available tech sheets only the 200ah and 60ah cells were of the new type with ~120 wh/kg. Their web site isn't very clear. But the 60ah in 2p would be about the same size and 1 pound more than a calb 100ah.


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## muffildy (Oct 11, 2011)

i would like to know the 60 second and 5 second ratings these cells are capable of.
Hipower brand cells for example list that they can handle 60 seconds of 5C and 5 seconds of 8C.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

valerun said:


> ok guys. what measurements or what parameters are you looking for and what would be satisfactory performance against those parameters for you to make a decision?


I meant measurements of the frame of my motorcycle... I'm not yet sure what will fit. After I get the ICE out, I'm going to have to run a few scenarios to see what package size will shoehorn in best.

Volume wise, 72 buddy paired Sinopoly 60(B)'s would be 75 liters and 13.8kWh, where 36 CALB 100's would be very close to the same volume and yield 11.5kWh.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Another important bit of information is how closely matched are they for capacity and resistance numbers, and what capacity is actually delivered? We know that CALB comes in higher than advertised, with the 100's above 110 actual and the 180's above 190 actual, and orders have been grouped within less than 1% capacity variation.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

valerun said:


> so, if we buy a large lot, will people be interested in ordering from us? I think we could offer EV-size packs at $1.1/AH. It will be 100AH cells if we decide to do this since this is what we use in our BMW conversions.
> 
> let me know.
> 
> Valery


i would be interested in possibly getting 45-50 200ah cells...but are the new black cells better the the old yellow? i know that the high voltage cut off is lower for the black cells, and the cycle life looks less then the yellow as well....are they better then the yellow cells in other ways?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

electric85 said:


> i would be interested in possibly getting 45-50 200ah cells...but are the new black cells better the the old yellow? i know that the high voltage cut off is lower for the black cells, and the cycle life looks less then the yellow as well....are they better then the yellow cells in other ways?


Hi electric85, will reply in the other thread after this.

All of sinopoly's cells are back apart from the 60ah cell which is green, one of their main customers is the Chinese grid and it matches their colour scheme.

The newer black and green cells in 60ah and 200ah cells are smaller in volume and lighter in weight than the older yellow.

There is a post in this thread that explains that in detail.

They apparently also have a lower internal resistance and are around 10% larger than their stated capacity.

What are you basing the inferior cycle life on?

I know we haven't seen anyone cycle these to 3000-5000 yet.

I have heard that at 70%dod you can get 5000 cycles.
Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Mike


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey skooler, thanks i am looking through my computer and through a few threads on here trying to find the old spec sheets. i have one that has all the same info as the new sheet with the black cells, but it still has the picture of the tall yellow cell.....also here is a link to the the spec sheet on the winston battery site
http://en.winston-battery.com/index.php/products/power-battery/item/wb-lyp200ahab?category_id=176 

it is a much larger cell...but when thundersky first introduced the 200ah tall cell it had the same cycle life and voltage cut off but was smaller...not as small as the new black ones...but close...they were a bit thicker then the calib 180...anyway thats where i was getting my info from...i just wish i could find that pdf

so you are able to get those black cells to Canada?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ok so we have 3 people for group buy at a combined volume of ~300 units. We need ~500 to get close to $1.1/AH. Anybody else interested?

Also, just got more info on batteries from Sinopoly - they have tested their cells for 3C and 5C discharge. See attached.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow. A 5C continuous test. Impressive.

Around ~.15v drop at 200amps means around .75 milliohms. 

I've calculated Calb 100ah cells to be 0.9 milliohms when built into a pack.

So I think they are roughly equivalent in IR. 

But the volume and energy and price look to be superior.

Good work Valery, looking forward to seeing some independent testing.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Interesting, 2.8v at 5C is higher than I expected. Considering that they are rated 5C for 10 seconds, must have been mighty hot towards the end. Either way, the curve tells a good story. I'm aiming towards 100 cells of 60Ah Sinopoly a little more everyday versus 64 100Ah cells in my lightweight conversion for higher performance with a Sol Jr. and Kostov 9" 220v setup, these curves back that up.

$1.10/Ah is an excellent price but I'm not ready for it yet. I really wish I was because I'd put down for 100 cells today if I could. Next year I should be set but I'm missing out on a great group buy.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

MN Driver said:


> Interesting, 2.8v at 5C is higher than I expected. Considering that they are rated 5C for 10 seconds, must have been mighty hot towards the end. Either way, the curve tells a good story. I'm aiming towards 100 cells of 60Ah Sinopoly a little more everyday versus 64 100Ah cells in my lightweight conversion for higher performance with a Sol Jr. and Kostov 9" 220v setup, these curves back that up.
> 
> $1.10/Ah is an excellent price but I'm not ready for it yet. I really wish I was because I'd put down for 100 cells today if I could. Next year I should be set but I'm missing out on a great group buy.


Word of CAUTION everybody, remember what happened last time there was a group buy with a vender from out of the area. Also, what are you going to do with defective cells? Send them to CHINA. I dont think so. So, any warranty is worthless. I hope your savings are worth it.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I've bought lithium batteries direct from China on several occasions. Never had a problem with the transactions or the products. We know the dealers buy direct also. . . no need for fear mongering. Consider where the comments come from. . . and why.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> I've bought lithium batteries direct from China on several occasions. Never had a problem with the transactions or the products. We know the dealers buy direct also. . . no need for fear mongering. Consider where the comments come from. . . and why.


 
I consider where your statement came from, why and from where? I have been watching your postings and all I can say is that they are way out there, in the unknown that is.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

cruisin said:


> I consider where your statement came from, why and from where? I have been watching your postings and all I can say is that they are way out there, in the unknown that is.


I don't sell anything. You do. . nuff said. I can link to the last discussion if you like? . . Seems I recall another warning where u said lithium batteries can't be send via air. I've had two shipments this way.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> I don't sell anything. You do. . nuff said. I can link to the last discussion if you like? . . Seems I recall another warning where u said lithium batteries can't be send via air. I've had two shipments this way.


 
Better check with both Fed Ex and UPS on their site about shipping Li-ion. Educate yourself before putting out bad info.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Would you like to see a close up of the Fedex shipping label?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

cruisin said:


> I consider where your statement came from, why and from where? I have been watching your postings and all I can say is that they are way out there, in the unknown that is.


I've found DIYguy's posting to be quite rational, as I'm sure have most others....


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> I don't sell anything. You do. . nuff said. I can link to the last discussion if you like? . . Seems I recall another warning where u said lithium batteries can't be send via air. I've had two shipments this way.


I think it is time that members on this forum take a look at those of you who claim to be knowledgable but certainly dont have the experience to back up your statements. Those dealers who help support this forum are also VERY aware of your actions and comments that lead them to believe you DONT support dealers. I forgot for a moment where you are at. I should have known.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I've found DIYguy's posting to be quite rational, as I'm sure have most others....


Thank you sir, that was most gracious of you. Coming from a guy with more than 6,600 posts, u've got some solid background.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Thank you sir, that was most gracious of you. Coming from a guy with more than 6,600 posts, u've got some solid background.


 
Background in what, a forum junky? lets hear about your professional experience in EV conversion and I will compare mine with yours.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Crusin,
Everyone who frequents this site knows JRP is solid. You'll never change that. He was (I think) the first guy on here to set up a bottom balanced pack and share his experiences with it. That said, he still understands and supports other options and clearly helps people understand why. I always admired that. 

The real problem is that I call you out and the truth hurts so you lash out by criticizing where someone lives or what they contribute. 
(If anyone wants some insight, check this out ....http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/used-lithium-batteries-68917.html )

It's not about being a Canadian, or my house or where I buy stuff. It's about intentions. 

BTW, ask Jeff and Seb at Evnetics if I support EV dealers.  

Sorry for the side track guys....  Carry on!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Crusin, you might want to take a look at that red square next to your name and figure out why it's there. You've spread plenty of mis information in your time here, along with overly promoting your products at every opportunity, while trashing others.


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## cruisin (Jun 3, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Crusin,
> Everyone who frequents this site knows JRP is solid. You'll never change that. He was (I think) the first guy on here to set up a bottom balanced pack and share his experiences with it. That said, he still understands and supports other options and clearly helps people understand why. I always admired that.
> 
> The real problem is that I call you out and the truth hurts so you lash out by criticizing where someone lives or what they contribute.
> ...


Let the record show no respnse to show me yours and I will show you mine.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

DIYguy you are from kitchener!!! i live in Brantford, i went to school at Conestoga College. I would love to chat about batteries and conversions sometime soon if you can. i would like to order some soon.

PS i like the little green square by your name...looks so much better then a red one


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

electric85 said:


> DIYguy you are from kitchener!!! i live in Brantford, i went to school at Conestoga College. I would love to chat about batteries and conversions sometime soon if you can. i would like to order some soon.
> 
> PS i like the little green square by your name...looks so much better then a red one


Very kewl  I went to Conestoga also, many moons ago. Welding Engineering Technology. More recently, I sat on the board there for welding programs.  
High school was Paris! PDHS, very close to brantford. Any time man. Your welcome to stop by my igloo also.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Goodwill, check it out. It's not something you can buy. It takes positive effort to create it, something everyone operating a business should understand.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Very kewl  I went to Conestoga also, many moons ago. Welding Engineering Technology. More recently, I sat on the board there for welding programs.
> High school was Paris! PDHS, very close to brantford. Any time man. Your welcome to stop by my igloo also.


Great! i will DM you my email! i am very interested in buying batteries fairly soon, and i'd love to ask you a few questions.

i took woodworking at Conestoga before leaving to work in TV land...it is a great school!


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

DIYguy, 

PM sent! looking forward to hearing from you!


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