# [EVDL] Manzanita PFC-20B tripping GFCI



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Folks,

I've been having problems with my PFC-20B tripping GFCI. The typical 
way to cause the trip is to set the current to zero, turn off the 
charger, plug in the charger, turn on the charger, and then start 
turning the current up. My home circuit is now tripping when the PFC is 
using 7A at 110v. It used to work up to 16A and is on a 20A circuit.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
 Peter

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Peter,

Turn off the charger as you been doing, by turning down the current knob and 
then turn off the charger and unplug the AC.

Take a continuity reading from the charger case to the frame of vehicle. If 
you bolted the charger directly to any metal of the vehicle, you should read 
close to 0 ohms.

Now is you could unplug the charger from the incoming AC plug and do the 
continuity test from a metal shell of the receptacle to the frame. If you 
have continuity, then you receptacle is a self grounding from the ground 
terminal to the metal case of the receptacle.

If the receptacle is a totally enclose plastic or nylon shell, then this is 
a isolated plug and receptacle device that will not self ground to the metal 
body of a EV.

Next, connect a volt meter from the most positive post of the main battery 
pack to a metal surface of the EV. Then plug in main AC plug, turn on 
charger circuit breaker. Only turn up the current knob a bit, but not over 
the ampere you trip the GFCI.

If you see any voltage between the main battery pack and the frame of the 
EV, then the it may be the following results:

The PFC charger case and/or the AC input receptacle is grounded to the EV. 
This voltage reading is normal, because the this type of charger is not 
isolated which allows a current return through the ground system which is 
then connected to the neutral either at the main service entrance switch 
and/or meter.

Now if you remove the meter leads which causes in it self a shunt path to 
the grounded EV frame, there could be still some current leakage from any of 
the battery terminals across the battery case to either a battery hold down 
or to the battery box itself.

To test this, turn off the charger and unplug it. Then adjust the voltmeter 
to the same voltage as one battery and put one lead on the battery post and 
one on the battery plastic top next to the other post, but not touching it. 
If you see any voltage, then the battery case is conducting some current. 
Now slide the test lead across the top of the battery, and you see it will 
vary in voltage.

If you batteries are in a enclose battery box or just a holding frame, than 
keep sliding the voltmeter test lead unto the battery box surfaces and/or 
any tie down devices. If you still see any voltages, then it is time to 
clean the batteries, battery box and ties downs.

I had even seen this continuity path along the main battery cables that came 
off the battery.

Another path for this current to travel while the charger is on, is the 
battery feeder cables that go up to the main contactor and to the controller 
which is just a straight feed throw to the motor. If your motor is a DC 
type with brushes, then the brush dust can track from the commentator down 
to the motor shaft which is another AC ground return through a grounded 
frame.

To prevent on having the charging current on these devices, I had to install 
two more contactors on battery feeder lines to isolated the charging current 
from the controller and motor.

One time while I was charging the EV, it was dark, and I saw arcing in the 
motor. Some times if you have a very bad leaking damp battery, you can see 
this arcing between a battery case and a grounded conductive surface. It is 
time to clean the batteries.

To prevent any of these ground fault problems, I built a isolation system 
where the batteries are in a epoxy coated fiber glass battery boxes which 
are seal. I use a totally enclose arc proof exhaust blower on the battery 
boxes that bring in clean fresh air.

I then made the charger a double insulated type, where the metal frame of 
the charger is also setting in a epoxy coated fiber glass enclosure which is 
also seal and have another blower fan apply positive pressure to this 
enclosure. Only the charger case is ground. it like having a charger 
setting out of the vehicle with only the two battery leads going to a DC 
input plug.

This method is ok, if you only charge at home inside a building and have the 
EV setting on a insulated floor and no body is touching the EV and some 
other electrical ground device. To use a outboard GFIC, some Anderson 
Connectors, have a small pin that is use for grounding.

If you carry your charger on board as I do, I install a 2 pole 50 amps GFI 
circuit breaker which is wire between the main AC input plug and charger. 
The ground lead of this charger is then connected to the ground connection 
in the main AC input. This allows me to plug in any where they might not 
have a GFI system.

Any time I have any leakage, I spray the battery surfaces, battery boxes, 
cables, or other surfaces with Windex with Ammonia. The ammonia is what 
neutralizes any battery acid.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter C. Thompson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Manzanita PFC-20B tripping GFCI


> Hi Folks,
>
> I've been having problems with my PFC-20B tripping GFCI. The typical
> way to cause the trip is to set the current to zero, turn off the
> charger, plug in the charger, turn on the charger, and then start
> turning the current up. My home circuit is now tripping when the PFC is
> using 7A at 110v. It used to work up to 16A and is on a 20A circuit.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 10 Oct 2010 at 21:07, Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> 
> > She also made an interesting observation - there are no
> > noise-rejection chokes in the charger - something that she says should
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 11 Oct 2010 at 3:52, EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > They were designed by an EV hobbyist for EV hobbyists.
> 
> ...


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