# 67 VW Single Cab



## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Here is my 67 Single cab EV 
12 Deep cycle AGM batteries 153V.
warp 9 motor.
curtis 500amp controller.
Here are some pics.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

Very nice looking. 

I hate asking the number one question I get asked, but I'm curious what type of range you get with the lead-acid batteries?

Would like to see more pics!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

I don't have any questions or deep technical comments, but I do think this vehicle is an inspired choice for a EV conversion: moderate gas-engine performance to match, easy electric motor mounting, and a huge compartment just waiting for batteries!


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Thanks for the comments. I now have insurance and going to venture out a littel furthe today. Mainly to get my DMV inspection so I can registar it. My new Elcon charger has shipped so should be installing that next week and still need some gages.
Here is couple more pics.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

congrats.

Not sure of your location but if there is a local EV assocation and you aren't a member you should meet up. Also keep your eyes open for an opportunity to get the batteries from a wrecked nissan leaf - considerably more range with the same weight vs. those AGMs.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

New charger installed PFC2500, same mounting pattern as old one so, made for easy install.
Also finished the charger plug in holder. I still need to install gauges. 
This thing is really fun to drive and is pretty quick. I cant decide if the Gear Reduction Boxes help or hurt the performance or range. 
I have put about 20miles on it and had one loose battery cable. Its sitting on the charger now until I see a green light. 
? When I leave in 2nd gear and rev it out, the motor really start to make some noise, I cant tell if balance issue with clutch and flywheel or just the sound it makes. I do not have RPM gauge so not sure on what RPMs I am at. I also need to learn the most effeicent way to drive it whith the throttle 1/2 throttle and let it build speed or mashing to floor doesnt seem to make it go quicker. Any tips?


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I installed Amp gauge in the stock fuel gauge position. NIce know what is going on with the motor. I am looking into Volts gauge and or various gauge driver. I like the idea of using the stock fuel gauge for state of charge. Not sure if I would work. 
I have been driving this thing everyday at lunch around my town. It is so much fun to drive. 
Pic,


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Not to much to report just been driving to get lunch everyday. 

The controller seems to be getting pretty hot after 10miles, I am not sure what normal temp is or if I am pushing it with the 153V volts, after 10 miles the volts are dropping to 147 and seems to loss some power. I thought about installing one more battery and up to 165 volts but that might be to much for the curtis 1231C, input anyone? If I put in one more battery the charger has to go back and get reprogramed, so I may just wait on that for now. 
Pics


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi. Good on you. 

I have heard that flywheel balance can be an issue, how is the noise going?


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I still here some growl or vibration but its at the upper end of 1st gear some end of 2nd. Its time to shift when that noise like over reving maybe? Overall a little more quiet since I changed the trannsmison and reduction box oil and put the door panel back on. It really needs some new shocks, tranny and motor mounts. 

I am doing a test now because after 10 miles of driving It feels like I am losing power and amps falling off. The motor is pretty warm and the controller seems warmer, but the battery pack still has 148Volts. So today I drove 7 miles still felt ok and battery pack 149Volts, motor warm, controller hot. Parked it let it cool off and went out for another drive and felt like almost fresh charge. I am going to keep doing this until the battery pack down to 140 volts and see how it goes. I am thinking controller is getting to hot and limitting the power. Its a cutris 1231C and I havent heard any type of warning that would tell me getting to hot.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Promising if an oil-change helps. 

Maybe you could put it up on blocks and poke-around with a stethoscope while running up the rpms?


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

The oil change did make the reduction gears quieter. I reved up the motor and really dont feel any strange vibrations, I think it the motor gets louder with higher rpms spinning the flywheel and clutch.


I didnt like how warm controller was gettting and was thinking the shunt 500 amp is putting out more heat right under the controller and causing some restriction. It was also really heating up the wires. I decide to go elimate the shunt and go direct from controller to motor. No amp gauge for now. I did a short drive yesterday and felt more responsive and controller was warm but not hot. I will be doing a longer drive today so, we'll see.
In the pic you can see the shunt directly under the controller, not the best spot. I also should probably shorten the cable to the motor.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Use a hall effect pickup instead of the shunt. You can get them that take a 5V supply and put 0-5v out proportional to their amps range rating. No resistance on the big wire necessary. You can use a resistor network off of the output to get the right output for your existing analog gauge.

I'm doing exactly this in my xB. 
Here is the type I am using: (the 200a nominal one IIRC)

http://www.lem.com/hq/en/component/option,com_catalog/task,displayserie/serie,HASS/output_type,/


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

madderscience, your XB looks cool and awesome range of 100miles. 

I am still loosing power around 10-12 miles, but pack is still at 148 volts. I let the truck rest and cool off, the power comes back. Not much else to report.
I spent a hour getting the driver side rear shock off, it took abrasive cut off and heat to finally get the rusted bolt out. New coil overs installed and you can see the gear reduction boxes. also a pic of my 29+ ebike 48 Volt hub motor, barley street legal it does 30mph.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

New front coil overs on rides som much nicer. I've been cleaning up getting it ready for VW show this weekend. I stripped off white paint on roof down to OG dove blue. I also installed hub caps and hub caps. I lilke how it they look.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I added one more deep cycle battery to make a total of 13, upping the voltage to 163Volts. and When 14miles and still have charge left. Seems like the motor is more effecient with the higher volts and the little extra range helps. Also the controller did not heat up as much.

Now I have to send the charger back and have it reprogramed for 13 batteries.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I entered the truck in a VW car show this past weekend and won Best Custom. I had a ton of people checking it out and taking pictures of it. It was pretty cool having the only EV VW there and winning an award, even though one of the event organzier was givng me trouble saying air cooled only. I said it is air cooled ha. He is an engine builder and I had suspected trouble from him. It was a fun event and good turn out.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Good job! I got the same slight push-back from the air-cooled club here. I'm actually surprised they leaned your way on that.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi imtb.

Congrats on the prize!

I would be concerned that you are pulling lots of current from the lead batteries and that is why it is losing power. Voltage sag on lead batteries is a problem. I suggest getting your amp meter running on the battery cables and monitor how much current is being drawn in acceleration and constant speed driving. The sag may also be why it accelerates the same at 1/2 and full throttle, the batteries cannot give the controller enough power? What capacity and type are your lead batteries?

Otherwise awesome conversion. And as ever, simplicity wins. Congrats sir.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I been stripping off some of the green paint getting down to the OG paint. Thinking about starting some body work but not really wanting to.

I also got my charger back and it set up for 5 to 14 batteries. Easy to change cruve. I installed one more battery, total 13 and have more range. 165-167Volts. Controller is recommended 144 volts. 13 was better so I thought add one more 14 total and runs even better gets up over 40mph quick. Controller maxes out at 177Volts, my charger charges the batteries up to 178 volts. Now controller will not turn on. I went back to 13 went for a short drive and burned up a few volts. Went back hooked up 14 battery at around 170 votls and really runs good. Bummer controller not turning on 1 or 2 volts. I had to change charger program back to 78 cells(see slowly learning some terminology) 165volts. It would be nice to use the 14th battery. 
Now I am just driving charge, repeat.

I also have front disc brakes that I need to put on but mechanic is being a pill, saying he doesnt know if he can work on EV. He likes to build engines. I can do it myself but just want to have him knock it out. I haven't heard from him for two weeks. Funny why wouldn't be more interested in it.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Here are the pics.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi. So, what you are saying is that your charger cannot be set to the ideal voltage for 14 batteries (178V)? Too bad, so close!! I wonder if you just turned on your lights (and heater?) before getting-going if that would drop your pack voltage down to 177 so the controller likes it? 

Alternatively, charging 14 batteries to the next lowest set-point will still give you more range. 

I've forgotten - what motor are you running?

Jim


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Correct, Charger over charges and the 14 batteries to 206 volts and then settles in about 178 volts. Just a few over the max limit on the curtis controller. Someone else suggested about turning on the lights. I didn't try that. 

What about this charger set for 13 batteries now and using 13 batteries. What if I hook up the 14 and use the curve for 13 it goes up to 191 volts while charging and settles down to about 165-167. Would it stay up higher with the 84 cells? or would it just not fully charge all the batteries? 

14 batteries 84 cells 206 while charging and drops to 178 volts.

13 batteries 78 cells 191 volts while charging, drop back to 165-167V

If charge set for 13 batteries what would happen with trying to charge 14 batteries?

or how can I use 14th battery ?


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Try the trick with the lights first.

At about 90% SOC, the battery starts taking less charge to increase voltage the same amount. Their internal resistance increases. So, they are more efficient at storing charge at lower voltages. Charging 14 batts to 90% vs. 13 to 100% will give you more range and also be easier on your batteries.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Should, I try charging the 14 batteries on the curve for 13 batteries?


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I heard back from Elcon and it will charge the 14 batteries same as it would 13 but each battery would be charged less. How much ? 

My next question will I have the same Volts and the extra amps from the extra battery and give me a little more range? 

ok, I just hooked back 14th and volts reading 178 turned on light and my heater. See if this works. I am skeptical because it seems like it just wear down the aux. battery.

Next I will be testing the 84 cells on the 78 cell charge curve and will report back.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I have charger set for 13 batteries and charging 14, only problem voltage stays up to 177Volts after charging and settles down to 175 after charging. Still too high for controller. I guess I just keep driving and charging. When charging 13 it goes up to 190 volt but settles down to 165 after charging. I guess to extra 12 volts are fully charged also. 

Going to save up for the Net Gain Hyper 9 AC motor and controller and go with two 100 volt packs.
Couple pics


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I think that hyper9 setup is going to be very good. Worth considering upgrading your battery to a Chevy volt / Nissan Leaf pack to suit and be mindful of not overloading the transmission with the torque you'll have.

Cheers

Tyler


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi. That was sooo close, too bad! I hope you can find a way to sneak that 14th battery in there somehow. 

Jim


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Not much to report. Batteries do not like this cold weather we are having. Power seems way down. 

I have been starting on dong some rust repair, never fun....Hoping to get back to it OG dove blue color by spring.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I am getting back into the truck now that the weather is improving. I am on a mission to increase my range and need some help.
Here goes.

I am currently using 13 AGM batteries 156volts. I can change this back to [email protected] With Elcon 2500 charger.

I want to add another pack but don't want the wait of the of AGM batteries. but don't want to scrap the current pack. 

? Can I use a civic hybrid pack 120 cells @1.2V 144 volt pack Nickel Metal Hydride run in parallel with the AGM's? There is a couple of these packs used for sale in my area.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

thanks


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

imtb said:


> There is a couple of these packs used for sale in my area.


How much? Leaf and Volt packs can be purchased for very little money


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Thanks for the reply.

one pack is $450 from 03
another one $600 from 08

I did want to add I would charge each pack individually then combine in parallel.
or could I use a some type of perko switch ?


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Here is a couple pics of getting after a long with of body work and finally paint. This is the original color dove blue. I left the doors OG with the old lettering. 
Very happy with how its looking. Now I want to drive it more and longer distances.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

imtb said:


> one pack is $450 from 03
> another one $600 from 08


You might want to start looking at Volt packs... some bargains to be had and you'll have much better performance/weight than expanding your current solution.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Even if you charge them separately (to the same voltage), one pack will always have some cells which go down first, which can cause a fire, or at the very least, it is tougher on that pack. A BMS will catch this (and for example disconnect that 1/2 pack if done correctly). Otherwise, you will have to determine some safe limits, and never go below them. Right now, I can't figure how to do this - maybe someone else has a sharper mind than mine right now.

In general, mixing packs is not a good idea, but you should be able to get away with it - you've gotten this far, so just think it through and be careful.

Jim


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

imtb said:


> I am currently using 13 AGM batteries 156volts. I can change this back to [email protected] With Elcon 2500 charger.
> 
> I want to add another pack but don't want the wait of the of AGM batteries. but don't want to scrap the current pack.
> 
> ? Can I use a civic hybrid pack 120 cells @1.2V 144 volt pack Nickel Metal Hydride run in parallel with the AGM's?


Since the two very different batteries have different characteristics of voltage versus state of charge, if you just parallel them I'm sure you'll draw unequally from them, and it seems likely that as you vary load one battery will charge the other. How about separate contactors to use one at a time? They would also then need to be charged one at a time, or by separate chargers.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Switching packs could even be done manually (like switching gas tanks), only you wouldn't want to do that while driving: hard on the contactors to switch while flowing a lot of current. It just depends upon what you have got for electronics and how comfortable you are with that kind of thing. 

Jim


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Very good thoughts thanks you. One of my co workers suggested two packs and switch. Like two separate gas tanks.

I did see some Volt packs on ebay, any other places to look for them?

I was thinking of a Perko switch or would anyone have another suggestion?

thanks


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Lots of switches out there - how will you determine SOC?


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Think this switch would work good for 380AMPS continuous and up to 850 intermittent. My current set up is drawing about 400 instantaneous and drops off to around 200amps when up to speed.

http://www.perko.com/catalog/batter...ctor_switch_with_alternator_field_disconnect/


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I am struggling here with the volt battery pack. I want to be able to use my current charger the ELCON pfc2500 and it set up for 78cells. How would I set up the VOLT pack to work with my charger.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi. I can't help you with the volt pack, but it occurs to me looking at the switch, that it wouldn't hurt anything to charge both packs at once.

J


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

GoElectric said:


> ... it occurs to me looking at the switch, that it wouldn't hurt anything to charge both packs at once.


If they have been used separately, and discharged to different voltages, connecting them together to charge them would not be good.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

imtb said:


> I am struggling here with the volt battery pack. I want to be able to use my current charger the ELCON pfc2500 and it set up for 78cells. How would I set up the VOLT pack to work with my charger.


You can use a fraction of the Volt pack. The full Volt pack has 96 cells in series (and two or three in parallel depending on the generation), arranged in several modules. You could look at the module sizes (each generation has a combination of two different module sizes), and just use whatever combination comes up to the right total.


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## GoElectric (Nov 15, 2015)

brian_ said:


> If they have been used separately, and discharged to different voltages, connecting them together to charge them would not be good.


Me baad. You good.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Okay, I figured the Volt battery pack out and I think 

12pack 3.8V


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Okay, I figured the Volt battery pack out and I think 
3.8VNormal 4.2VMax
12cell 45.6 50.4
12cell 45.6 50.4
16cell 60.8 67.2
--------------------------------------- 
152 168
Normal voltage would be about perfect, max is close to my limit on the 1231c.

These are going for pretty good prices and weight would only be 121#'s alot less than the AGMS. 

The big question will my charger work with the Volt batteries, It is set up for 78cells max charging would be 165Volts. 

Could someone chime in regarding the ELCON PF2500 would work.
thanks


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

imtb said:


> Think this switch would work good for 380AMPS continuous and up to 850 intermittent. My current set up is drawing about 400 instantaneous and drops off to around 200amps when up to speed.
> 
> http://www.perko.com/catalog/batter...ctor_switch_with_alternator_field_disconnect/


I think this switch is rated at maximum 32 DC. It would not be a good idea to use it to switch a voltage any higher than that.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Chevy Volt Pack
12S
12S
16S
152volts

I went for 1 mile test ride and the acceleration is awesome. I can imagine will be better when I take out 850 of AGM weight. I will also have more room. 
Now I need to sort out the charging or switch of some type.
Anxious to see what type of mileage I will get with Volt pack.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

imtb said:


> I went for 1 mile test ride and the acceleration is awesome. I can imagine will be better when I take out 850 of AGM weight. I will also have more room.


Excellent


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Loving your build!


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I need to get the lead out. 

I got the 17 Miles out of Volt pack started at 158volts and it ran down to 101 volts. I still had the heavy AGMS in and hooked them back up to get home. The 17 miles is around town with a ton of starting and stopping. I think it used up all the juice just getting the thing up to speed. Volt pack has good response and small input maintains speed easily. 

Next step get the lead out and install two volt pack and run on one and see how many miles I get with out all the weight. Then I still have fresh pack to get back home. Then I should have a better idea with two packs what my new range will be.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

I got the lead out! About 900#'s of AGMs. 1 volt pack 120# compared to 900 of the 13 AGMS. Also less battery cables and connections with volt pack.

2, 160 volt, Volt pack installed one hooked up and seeing what the mileage is without all the lead weight. The volt pack is very responsive very light pedal input equals speed, also dosen't take much to keep it up to speed. So far pretty impressed with new technology. It's will be nice when I parallel them and have a decent range.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

That sounds great, and they fit well also. Could squeeze 2 more packs in there also for a proper range and not worry about keeping one pack for getting home. Surprised you got such a short range on the one pack initially. It would be worth checking all controller settings are optimum and motor timing is good and running gear is smooth and wheel alignment correct to ensure you aren't burning electrons just fighting the car itself.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

imtb said:


> Chevy Volt Pack
> 12S
> 12S
> 16S
> 152volts


So that's 42% of the full Volt pack. With a nominal capacity of the full Volt pack at about 16 kWh, that's 6.7 kWh in the newly added stack.



imtb said:


> I got the 17 Miles out of Volt pack started at 158volts and it ran down to 101 volts. I still had the heavy AGMS in and hooked them back up to get home. The 17 miles is around town with a ton of starting and stopping.


With 6.7 kWh available, 17 miles of range means 392 Wh/mile.



tylerwatts said:


> Surprised you got such a short range on the one pack initially.


Given the truck aerodynamics, relatively high weight due to the lead-acid batteries still in the vehicle, and lack of any regenerative braking (due to the DC motor) in stop-and-go service, this doesn't seem surprising to me.


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## imtb (Apr 25, 2017)

Volt packs are working good. I made it from home to my shop 15 miles, only 
issue now is really loosing power on hills. I pretty much need to use 2nd gear and let it climb. Then once back on level ground recovers and is fine. The hill was about 7 miles into the drive. Not sure why 3rd gear is fading on the hills.
Couple pics.
Got it stuck in my moms back yard and had to have couple people push me up the hill. Might of made it I still had the lead in for traction.
Using the truck hit it should be used. Hauling a whiskey barrel for someone.


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