# [EVDL] EV comminuty project group purchase warning..



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi all EV weirdos 

Our Finnish community conversion project has gone to the stage that we =

are purchasing first components. Aim is to build 500 conversions by the =

end of 2009. Over 300 vehicles already reserved !

Donor vehicle will be Toyota Corolla from 2003 to 2007 models.

We are going to have about 20-30 kWh Lithiums inside with AC drive and =

all necessary acessories. 1st vehicles have been choosen to be equipped =

with FEVT battery systems along with selected TS cells (LCP).

The complete vehicle will cost around 25 k=80 ($39k). That's about the =

same price as new gasoline Toyota up here.

So far we have calculated vehicle performance with Brusa drivetrain.
(DCM524 + HSM6.17.12 + external gearset/original manula transmission)

I would like to open discussion here to find out ALL other options for =

the motor set. And at the same I welcome EVerybody to the group purchase.

regards
Jukka
http://www.sahkoautot.fi/eng

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jukka wrote:
> 
> >I would like to open discussion here to find out ALL
> other options for the motor set.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A MES-DEA system may be good option as they make motors with
3kW increments from 9kW to 30kW allowing fine tuning
price/performance ratio. Since water cooled, it's lighter too.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different



> Chris Jones wrote:
> > Jukka wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to open discussion here to find out ALL
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is one viable alternative for the setup. Now we will need very good 
input from somene who already owns such setup.

I've seen Azure systems on sme vehicles but they have been unsuitable type.

As this is a community project all data will be freely available to anyone.

I believe we will make several setups and actually test them in real life.

We'll use to the first vehicles TS cells and FEVT systems. Charger 
included. Thou it might be NLG5 water cooled with CAN interface. CCS 
controls all charging activities over CAN.

I have feeling that we'll use at least on one vehicle Kokam cells. Time 
will tell.

-Jukka

Chris Jones kirjoitti:


> > Jukka wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to open discussion here to find out ALL
> > other options for the motor set.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Can you Victor recommend a setup which would be in the 30 kW range ? The 
differential can be also bought from Mes-Dea if the package is suitable 
for Corolla.

We can use in the first vehicle protoes even the original transmission. 
Just to start with something.

I've also asked from Wangxiang from China who has Solectria lisence to 
make Solectria components. They are pushing one EV family out in China 
with this motor set. I've seen them in real life and even driven one.

-Jukka

Metric Mind kirjoitti:
> A MES-DEA system may be good option as they make motors with
> 3kW increments from 9kW to 30kW allowing fine tuning
> price/performance ratio. Since water cooled, it's lighter too.
> 
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
> 


> > Chris Jones wrote:
> >> Jukka wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would like to open discussion here to find out ALL
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The only 30kW motor MES makes is 200-250 model, goes
in pair with TIM600 inverter.

As of gear box best is to reuse Corolla's stock box.
You won't be happy with MES' single gear box at freeway
speed.

Victor

'91 ACRX - something different



> Jukka J=E4rvinen wrote:
> > Can you Victor recommend a setup which would be in the 30 kW range ? The =
> 
> > differential can be also bought from Mes-Dea if the package is suitable =
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

OK. Sounds good.

What do you estimate the cost to be in CHF for the set ? (Or USD)...

-Jukka

Victor Tikhonov kirjoitti:
> The only 30kW motor MES makes is 200-250 model, goes
> in pair with TIM600 inverter.
> =

> As of gear box best is to reuse Corolla's stock box.
> You won't be happy with MES' single gear box at freeway
> speed.
> =

> Victor
> =

> '91 ACRX - something different
> =



> > Jukka J=E4rvinen wrote:
> >> Can you Victor recommend a setup which would be in the 30 kW range ? The =
> 
> >> differential can be also bought from Mes-Dea if the package is suitable =
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It's on the web site, and changes with currency fluctuations.
So can't give firm quote for a long time. Typically valid
for 2 weeks. Look for this info on the price list.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different



> Jukka J=E4rvinen wrote:
> > OK. Sounds good.
> > =
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jukka said, "Now we will need very good input from
somene who already owns such setup. I've seen Azure
systems on sme vehicles but they have been unsuitable
type."

We have 2 of the smaller Azure systems coming on line
around here shortly, with clutches and transmissions. 
One will be 156V of lead in a VW Rabbit, and the other
will be 200+V of LiFePO4 in a Porsche Speedster
replica. I expect that the former may be similarly
slow like the Force, but if he upgrades to 200+V it
might be just enough. I expect the latter to be very
nice. There is a third new Azure system around here
in a Corolla that doesn't quite have the right
batteries and has a single speed gearbox, so we're
discussing upgrading it. Stay tuned for more Azure
data from here shortly. Looking forward to hearing
about your results. 

One advantage of this small Azure system over the
Brusa system discussed is that it costs $7K US less here.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Chris Jones kirjoitti:
> Jukka said, "Now we will need very good input from
> somene who already owns such setup. I've seen Azure
> systems on sme vehicles but they have been unsuitable
> type."

The unsitability has been due the fact that these vehicles were not 
sedan type vehicles.


> 
> We have 2 of the smaller Azure systems coming on line
> around here shortly, with clutches and transmissions. 
> One will be 156V of lead in a VW Rabbit, and the other
> will be 200+V of LiFePO4 in a Porsche Speedster
> replica. I expect that the former may be similarly
> slow like the Force, but if he upgrades to 200+V it
> might be just enough. I expect the latter to be very
> nice. There is a third new Azure system around here
> in a Corolla that doesn't quite have the right
> batteries and has a single speed gearbox, so we're
> discussing upgrading it. Stay tuned for more Azure
> data from here shortly. Looking forward to hearing
> about your results. 

Can you send a link to these vehicles (evalbum?) . I'd like to see more 
details. I may even come to see if possible.

> One advantage of this small Azure system over the
> Brusa system discussed is that it costs $7K US less here.

But wha IS the Azures price ? I'm convinced we can get a 50 kW system 
less than $8k for the project. After all... we are talking about 500 
systems to be purchased at one group buy.

-Jukka

> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>> One advantage of this small Azure system over the
>> Brusa system discussed is that it costs $7K US less here.
>> 
>
> But wha IS the Azures price ? I'm convinced we can get a 50 kW system 
> less than $8k for the project. After all... we are talking about 500 
> systems to be purchased at one group buy.
>
> 
Azure provided Mexico City with an amazing price break on complete AC24 
systems (DC/DC and chargers too I think?) for 1000 units. I would think 
that 500 units would qualify for a pretty good price break.

-- 
Gary Krysztopik
www.ZWheelz.com
San Antonio, TX

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jukka wrote, "Can you send a link to these vehicles
(evalbum?)"

They are not documented yet. I have asked them to do
that. 

"I'd like to see more details. I may even come to see
if possible."

It would be great to have you over, especially once
they are running and if they turn out nice. We are
getting organized at http://www.nbeaa.org/osev/. 
Feedback and help from you and all are welcomed --
sorry it is still crude, lots to be added. Maybe we
can cross link and coordinate our efforts, sharing
similar data? 

"But wha IS the Azures price ? I'm convinced we can
get a 50 kW system less than $8k for the project.
After all... we are talking about 500 systems to be
purchased at one group buy."

$6K USD from Electro Automotive for one set -- haven't
talked to them about volume discounts yet. We aren't
far enough along to start asking seriously -- all of
the accompanying necessary questions are expensive in
their time, so I don't want to waste anyone's time
until we are more sure. But if these three cars go
nicely, we will get serious. 

Do you have any prototypes running over there yet with
similar components that you are planning on building?

Chris

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Chris Jones kirjoitti:
> Jukka wrote, "Can you send a link to these vehicles
> (evalbum?)"
> 
> They are not documented yet. I have asked them to do
> that. 

okkey.

> 
> "I'd like to see more details. I may even come to see
> if possible."
> 
> It would be great to have you over, especially once
> they are running and if they turn out nice. We are
> getting organized at http://www.nbeaa.org/osev/. 
> Feedback and help from you and all are welcomed --
> sorry it is still crude, lots to be added. Maybe we
> can cross link and coordinate our efforts, sharing
> similar data? 

www.sahkoautot.fi/paja
(in Finnish)

> 
> "But wha IS the Azures price ? I'm convinced we can
> get a 50 kW system less than $8k for the project.
> After all... we are talking about 500 systems to be
> purchased at one group buy."
> 
> $6K USD from Electro Automotive for one set -- haven't
> talked to them about volume discounts yet. We aren't
> far enough along to start asking seriously -- all of
> the accompanying necessary questions are expensive in
> their time, so I don't want to waste anyone's time
> until we are more sure. But if these three cars go
> nicely, we will get serious. 

Oh. that sounds nice. thou we are now comparing apples and oranges. 
aircooled to water ones. get an indication on the volume prices. that 
counts now.

> 
> Do you have any prototypes running over there yet with
> similar components that you are planning on building?

in progress. thou there are some vehicles with a bit different setups 
on evalbum.

-jukka

> 
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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