# Motor Assist / Hybrid



## Lars_DK (Dec 23, 2008)

Hi 

I did search but did not find about this. If there is then i am sorry. 

Honda civic Integrated Motor Assist is really clever. I mean i like the idea of downsize the motor and add a electric motor to help out.

Ok here is my question 

I already have a Fiat Grandepunto (1,2 48kW) the smallest motor model.

Will it be durable to add/connect a 15kw electric motor to Generator belt? 

First is the mechanical durable ?
And 2. that about the controlling the electric motor ?


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

1. Will it be durable to add/connect a 15kw electric motor to Generator belt? 
Short answer :
No
Longer answer: You really do not want to turn that petrol motor with an electric motor. It will act like a massive brake. 


And 2. that about the controlling the electric motor ? 
That is where the whole journey begins with hybrids. Its quite a bit more complex to make an Hybrid where the driver does not have to manually controll both engines but requests 'torque' or 'acceleration' from the power-train.


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## Lars_DK (Dec 23, 2008)

Thank you for taking time steven4601


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

I do not want to put you off making an hybrid vehicle, it is just a tad more complex to make it energy efficient & safe.

Also I am not sure it is possible to get a diy hybrid vehicle to pass the individual inspection to get it licensed. Have you read up on the Dannish rules?


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## Lars_DK (Dec 23, 2008)

steven4601 said:


> Also I am not sure it is possible to get a diy hybrid vehicle to pass the individual inspection to get it licensed. Have you read up on the Dannish rules?


Yes I have and it is very depressing reading. 

Short answer : I cant change a single nut without a full Vehicle test like the Car factories does.

And every second year we in Denmark have vehicle inspection there it will be found not legal to drive on the roads.

Longer answer: If is was a simple add-on then i would have taken the chance. And removed the add-on before vehicle inspection and install it again after.

If i did a hole electrick car it will be in my eyes alot more illegal and work  

Another Longer answer:  If i do get a vehicle from before 1965 or is it 1970 ? I can do more ore less that i like. But it not very easy to find a rust free car. And if I do find one they cost a so high that I think it is like mad  



steven4601 said:


> I do not want to put you off making an hybrid vehicle


 Well for now i blame you  No thank you for taking a look at my thoughts. 

It is always easier then there are others too look at for ideas. And then honda can doit why not me. Well that was how my thought started......


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

About the legallity of a conversion in Denmark. Contact the department for the individual testing of vehicles. Not sure how they will call it in Danish.

In the Netherlands upto 2010 the law dictated that no vehicles after 1997 December 31th where allowed to be modified without type-approval from the manufacturer. Very frustrating as It seemed all the cars I liked where younger than 1997....... Also it sounded like an impossible law to maintain.

After contacting the 'RDW' (RijksDienst voor Wegverkeer) by email they promised to get back to me about my question regarding younger cars.. Eventually I was called back that my question had made the Hague to be assessed for a law change! 

2011 April this year its legal to convert your car to Electric in the Netherlands. It requires an individual inspection and approval by the RDW in Lelystad. 

What I was trying to say, don't get frustrated too soon.


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## Lars_DK (Dec 23, 2008)

steven4601 said:


> It requires an individual inspection and approval by the RDW in Lelystad.


That is RDW ? And that will you have to pay for a approval ?

Here are the latest http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=da&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafikstyrelsen.dk%2FDA%2FSyn-og-K%25C3%25B8ret%25C3%25B8jer%2FRegler-om-k%25C3%25B8ret%25C3%25B8jer%2FRegler-om-koeretoejer%2F~%2Fmedia%2FC30A59FFA5E44DE9A9E34B7BC2C9A625.ashx

I dont even we have a testing laboratory for test the technical requirements of ECE Regulation 100

and

Requirements of ECE Regulation 10-02 I this this is some kind of emc ?

and

To be presented the opinion of recognized testing laboratory, which provide a justification the conclusion that after a professional assessment must be considered that the car continues to meet the provi- attested on collision protective steering.

and

There must provide documentation from a recognized testing laboratory that tested the car on both surfaces with high friction (μ over 0.8 and up to 130 km / h) as a road with low friction on (μ below 0.3 and up to 80 km / h), and which concluded that the anti-lock system, steering- ring of regeneration, so no wheel blocks at every stop, to curb weight, regardless friction, speed, charge level of batteries and the use of regeneration

So Steven do you know a "cheap" laboratory that will give me some papers i can give to Danish Traffic Authority.

I have not asked for price but my quesses is 5000 to 10000 eur. That do you say to that number do you think it can be cheaper ?


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Hi Lars,


Sorry for the late reply as I have started to read deeper into the requirements myself when I was trying to write an response earlier.

About EMC is that all components should have some sort of CE marking, which might even cause trouble for me as I am going to use an Motor Inverter which does not have an CE compliance sticker but has been tested against the Australian (C-tick) CISPR 11 standard which pretty much equals the European IEC/EN55011 standard for industrial,medical and scientific electronic equipment. Sadly for road vehicles the vehicle & components have to be tested & pass the CISPR 12 criteria. (CISPR 12 is for radio-communication)
Reason for CISPR 12 is from the early days with non compensated sparkplug wires emitting wideband noise (Dirac pulses..) upto the Gigaherz bands. 

Hopefully supplying the motorcontroller documentation from the CISPR 11 passed tests for my inverter will satisfy the compliance requirement. If not Ill need to dig out +1300 euro for EMC testing alone..... Which is the minimum, likely it will be more. Hope it does not go down that route as it will be a killer for the project moral. 

About the dynamic road response, that is entirely handeld by the RDW in the netherlands. They have special test circuits with low friction surfaces & measurement apparatus for this.


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## Lars_DK (Dec 23, 2008)

Hi Steven

It sounds like it may be a bit easy´er for you than for me. Please tell me then you get you number plates on. Then i will see that must bee done. I mean if it is posibel in one EU country then i can see why not it then same in Denmark.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Have you called up your department for road vehicles already?
'Passive mode' gets nothing done. At least not for most of us.


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