# Group buy happening anywhere?



## lostinspacebar (Mar 4, 2011)

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knew of any group buys for LiFe batteries happening. I've searched a few forums and I can't seem to find anything recently. 

I'm looking to buy about 15 40AH cells. Would you guys suggest any good sources if not a group buy?

The cheapest thing I could find is http://1-ev.com/ts.aspx

Thanks,
Aditya


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

the 'pay up front' model and trust the importer model has been ruined by a couple bad experiences like the EVC/Morrison fiasco where batteries were paid for but never delivered.

Most people are now willing to pay a little more for batteries that are already in the country, take credit cards, and are ready to ship.

There is a fair inventory of Thundersky, although in limited ah selection and having sat on the shelf for a while at http://currentevtech.com of the cells we were able to recover from above mentioned fiasco kindly being re-sold by D. Kois. The other reputable dealer of late (for CALB cells) seems to be http://www.calibpower.com if you want to shop around.


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## LithiumStorage (Feb 3, 2010)

There are actually several reputable dealers in the USA.

When you decide which Lithium cell brand you want, check around and ask about current inventories. If you're a nervous customer, search this forum for reviews and ask the seller for either customer references or some recent tracking numbers to prove delivery.

Mike


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> the 'pay up front' model and trust the importer model has been ruined by a couple bad experiences like the EVC/Morrison fiasco where batteries were paid for but never delivered.
> 
> Most people are now willing to pay a little more for batteries that are already in the country, take credit cards, and are ready to ship.


I have to jump in here. Lets not confuse the "pay up front" vs "batteries that are already in the country". You can pay up front on domestic or overseas orders. You could also get screwed potentially by either. That said, the only evidence I could find of people who got screwed was from a couple unscrupulous US dealers.... not Chinese (or other). I bought mine direct, paid half when order was placed, balance upon shipping and had no issue. 
I'm not saying credit card orders are bad (however, have u ever reversed a transaction on one??? I tried once and had great grief....)


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> I have to jump in here. Lets not confuse the "pay up front" vs "batteries that are already in the country".


absolutely true these are two different concerns. The question of paying for batteries that are on a slow boat from China is an issue regardless of payment method. In part because it is likely to exceed the time period where you CAN reverse charges. It is also possible that the Vendor's management falls apart in the weeks between when you order and when you are supposed to get shipped as happened with many of us in the 'last shipment' from EVC. Second issue is reversing a charge made to a non-US bank from a US credit card is a nightmare as well.... But I do have to echo that I have not had any problems dealing with Chinese shipping things, where I HAVE had a very expensive problem not getting a shipment from state of WA where the Atty General there doesn't seem to think consumer fraud is a big deal and let the EVC fiasco slide thru Civil Court and Settle without getting the AG office involved.

so, the SAFEST buy is with a cc from a company set up in 'your' country of stock that in sitting in a warehouse ready to ship. Always pays to check into reputation of Vendor, call and ask if they have inventory sitting in the warehouse or are waiting for a shipment.....


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## lostinspacebar (Mar 4, 2011)

I was more referring to a user group buy. But maybe that's what you guys are talking about too. I've seen some forums from couple of years ago where users pooled together to buy in bulk. But nothing recent. Perhaps I should just suck it up and buy by myself.


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## LithiumStorage (Feb 3, 2010)

We've got 39pcs of CALB 40Ah in current stock (not presold). Send me a PM with your delivery zip code and i'll respond with an informal quote.

Mike


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> absolutely true these are two different concerns. The question of paying for batteries that are on a slow boat from China is an issue regardless of payment method. In part because it is likely to exceed the time period where you CAN reverse charges. It is also possible that the Vendor's management falls apart in the weeks between when you order and when you are supposed to get shipped as happened with many of us in the 'last shipment' from EVC. Second issue is reversing a charge made to a non-US bank from a US credit card is a nightmare as well.... But I do have to echo that I have not had any problems dealing with Chinese shipping things, where I HAVE had a very expensive problem not getting a shipment from state of WA where the Atty General there doesn't seem to think consumer fraud is a big deal and let the EVC fiasco slide thru Civil Court and Settle without getting the AG office involved.
> 
> so, the SAFEST buy is with a cc from a company set up in 'your' country of stock that in sitting in a warehouse ready to ship. Always pays to check into reputation of Vendor, call and ask if they have inventory sitting in the warehouse or are waiting for a shipment.....


There's some good advise right there.

I tried reversing a charge once for an unrelated service (limo), they had no authorization to charge my card a second time. I challenged it. They automatically take it off your debit history, but open a "case" file. Afterwards, they asked me for a copy of the written contract and other stuff I don't even recall. The limo booking was done over the phone, no contract was ever written, given etc. When I couldn't produce it, they put the charge back on. That was the end of my time with that card. Seems the responsibility is on the card holder to prove it as opposed to the guy charging it to the card. . at least in my case. Bunch of crap.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> There's some good advise right there.
> 
> I tried reversing a charge once for an unrelated service (limo), they had no authorization to charge my card a second time. I challenged it. They automatically take it off your debit history, but open a "case" file. Afterwards, they asked me for a copy of the written contract and other stuff I don't even recall. The limo booking was done over the phone, no contract was ever written, given etc. When I couldn't produce it, they put the charge back on. That was the end of my time with that card. Seems the responsibility is on the card holder to prove it as opposed to the guy charging it to the card. . at least in my case. Bunch of crap.


Hey guys,

We are here http://1-ev.com/ts.aspx trying to help, NO PROFIT - just getting "Group" together and offer even better price that what you see!!!, and not to mess thing up....

We are open to ANY suggestions and comments and working on escrow account, but this will cost a bit more.

We will have individual Contracts and if we will get "Group" to Buy then we will talk about the money...

Currently, we have person in China to supervise all our container shipments, this individual doing it for our other shipments...

Hope this helps, Thank you.
-Youri


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I want to share my story of purchasing $5k of TS cells and perhaps someone reading this will learn something from my experiances.

I put in an order with what seemed like a reputable established EV vendor. I knew the batteries would be coming from China and it would take at least a month to arrive. They pushed me to give them all the money up front, but I never do that for large open-ended transactions like this and told them, I'd gladly pay a deposit and even escrow the remainder, but I wouldn't pay up front.

Well... wouldn't you know it. The company went out of business while my batteries where shipping. And it was one of those nightmare scenarios you can read about here. To actually transact my sale, I had to ask a beloved friend in Seattle to swap a cashiers check for the batteries in person and ship them himself to my home in Kansas. If I had paid in full as they requested several times, those batteries would have simply disappeared. It was a huge PITA, but I learned a lot and hopefully you can too... 


- Never pay up front for anything large with a long delivery
- Never trust any company regardless of reputation
- A small deposits is a great way to insure all parties stay motivated to finalize the transaction.

Take it to heart

-Bruce


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> the 'pay up front' model and trust the importer model has been ruined by a couple bad experiences like the EVC/Morrison fiasco where batteries were paid for but never delivered.
> 
> Most people are now willing to pay a little more for batteries that are already in the country, take credit cards, and are ready to ship.
> 
> There is a fair inventory of Thundersky, although in limited ah selection and having sat on the shelf for a while at http://currentevtech.com of the cells we were able to recover from above mentioned fiasco kindly being re-sold by D. Kois. The other reputable dealer of late (for CALB cells) seems to be http://www.calibpower.com if you want to shop around.



Hey guys,

"A bit more" is *25% or MORE plus local shipment*, if this is okay then no need for "Group Buy" or other worries 

Also, the "Group Buy" met that all members of the Group Buy will share some work to do during buy-shipment process, so it will be transparent transaction with every party agreed what to do next, and not where just 1 is working and all others getting the cheapest price at the door in the USA... 

Also, If individual paying $5k or more for the batteries, one could go and visit HK or China direct - air fair is a $1400 round trip...  

Hope that helps, Thank you.
-Y.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

bruceme said:


> - Never pay up front for anything large with a long delivery
> - Never trust any company regardless of reputation
> - A small deposits is a great way to insure all parties stay motivated to finalize the transaction.
> 
> ...


well.... then if we lived by that, a group buy wouldn't work.

I did one 2 years ago for ~1500 headway cells (~$28k) with 34 other people, and without wiring the money to the chinese company, they'd never have shipped them.... and it took 6 weeks.

Now, for a company that is a distributor, selling batteries, sometimes the only way they can stay in business is to buy as a large order, and wait for them. Many of these places don't have investors that are willing to shell out $200k for batteries just to have them sit on shelves.

it's a double edged sword and I realize you got screwed.... I was just as surprised as you were, but not all companies are like that.


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## lostinspacebar (Mar 4, 2011)

Wow.

Thanks a lot for the information and feedback everyone! I am probably going to start another thread as a build thread for my Kart but it's nice to hear 1st person feeback. The batteries ARE the most annoying part of this process since it's a large chunk of the cost + kind of scary ordering from a random company.


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## BuildingAC (Aug 17, 2011)

I have a similar question; Albeit not about cells, but motors... Does anyone know where people are trying to group-buy AC motors?
I plan to google, but since I'm a member, I figured I would pose it to my forum first.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

BuildingAC said:


> I have a similar question; Albeit not about cells, but motors... Does anyone know where people are trying to group-buy AC motors?
> I plan to google, but since I'm a member, I figured I would pose it to my forum first.



I doubt there is enough volume to warrant a 'group buy' of AC motors at wholesale price. Why don't you support our EV friendly retailers (like the ones that bought ads on this site) ?


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> I doubt there is enough volume to warrant a 'group buy' of AC motors at wholesale price. Why don't you support our EV friendly retailers (like the ones that bought ads on this site) ?



Agreed, if not enough volume for LiFePo4 cells "Group Buy", that would be totally nonsense to talk about other components "Group Buy"...

I am resting the case ...

-Y.


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## BuildingAC (Aug 17, 2011)

Apologies, folks. I will direct my questions only in pertinent fields.
Thanks.


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