# has anyone used the control circuit on Elcon/TC/Chinnic charger



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

you get 'some' flexibility with 10 preset curves based on the original nominal voltage the unit was programmed for. If you want something other than those (clickable with button under sticker) you have to ship back for re-programming.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> you get 'some' flexibility with 10 preset curves based on the original nominal voltage the unit was programmed for. If you want something other than those (clickable with button under sticker) you have to ship back for re-programming.


I had mine shipped direct from China I was told they could only load 1profile so I went for 3.65. Volts per cell if there are other profiles loaded how do you know what they are


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

yup one basic profile with at least 7 different charge current taper events. The basic curve should be for whatever you specified (lipo?), and the different voltage knees/currents associated with that shift up or down based on blink setting.

In my case they are very high as charging voltage is for more cells than I have.

But I fooled them: when I get to MY finishing voltage, The control circuit fires a relay across their external control wire and it stops charging by shutdown.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

piotrsko said:


> yup one basic profile with at least 7 different charge current taper events. The basic curve should be for whatever you specified (lipo?), and the different voltage knees/currents associated with that shift up or down based on blink setting.
> 
> In my case they are very high as charging voltage is for more cells than I have.
> 
> But I fooled them: when I get to MY finishing voltage, The control circuit fires a relay across their external control wire and it stops charging by shutdown.


That's exactly what I'm doing I just wondered if anyone is using the control circuit to decrease the current in steps, it looks like the way we are doing it might be better anyway as the voltages seem to stick together at the higher amps I'm using my e-xpert pro guage which has a high voltage alarm and built in relay so when the voltage falls back it will give them another quick zap


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Frodus might know better than anyone, but I haven't seen any documentation where varying the voltage across the control circuit changes anything on the charger. I understand it is only on or off. I know 3 volts doesn't work on mine even though the spec indicates +2.5 vdc is considered "high".


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

From the documentation I've got, it's only on/off for the enable line.

They do have a canbus option though, and you can fully control the voltage and current through that. It overrides the profiles inside. You'd need to write code and talk to the charger via Canbus.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

frodus said:


> From the documentation I've got, it's only on/off for the enable line.
> 
> They do have a canbus option though, and you can fully control the voltage and current through that. It overrides the profiles inside. You'd need to write code and talk to the charger via Canbus.


Oh OK I have 3 wires either on/off using the supplied 12 volts which is what I currently use or dividing the voltage using a couple of resistors to regulate current, I would have thought someone would have used the grnd and enable this way you have complete control of the charger no need to send it in to have it reprogrammed.

CAN bus is the way to go in hindsight I would go that route.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

My Elcon 2500 only has two wires brought out of the small round connector.

They are currently soldered together. But, they are meant to be controlled by a BMS controller.

Even then, they are on or off. To my understanding, they are not proportionate.

I have a small volt meter with two programmable switches. One of these is set for 4.0 volts and the other is set at 2.8 volts.

One is attached to the Elcon and will catch it if it ever goes "crazy" and fails to shut down normally.

The other turns on a red light over my speed-o in case I am pushing my range a little.


Miz


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

albo2 said:


> ........ I currently use or dividing the voltage using a couple of resistors to regulate current, I would have thought someone would have used the grnd and enable this way you have complete control of the charger no need to send it in to have it reprogrammed.
> 
> CAN bus is the way to go in hindsight I would go that route.


Is there more information on this? (CANBUS without having to write code) I would like to understand this better.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

You have to specify you want to control the charger via CAN bus as it is a different model charger, It should be quite simple to control using an arduino micro controller infact I think you just answered my question I could use a micro controller to monitor the pack and send variable voltage to the charger


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

mizlplix said:


> My Elcon 2500 only has two wires brought out of the small round connector.
> 
> They are currently soldered together. But, they are meant to be controlled by a BMS controller.
> 
> ...


Hi Miz I have been following your build as I'm using the same motor and controller as you got to say you have done a fantastic job, I have the same round plug but pins 1 to 3 are connected I'm currently just using the red and black wires that are basically on/off, the charger flashes red green if there is no power to the black/enable wire, this is the code for pack disconnected however you can adjust the current by altering the voltage between the green/gnd and black/enable with 2 volts and below being 0 amps 3 volts 33% 4 volts 66% and 5 and above 100% of available current suspect this would over ride the programmed settings which would be handy for you as I believe yours is set to low for your pack if my memory serves.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

albo2 said:


> I have the same round plug but pins 1 to 3 are connected I'm currently just using the red and black wires that are basically on/off, the charger flashes red green if there is no power to the black/enable wire, this is the code for pack disconnected however you can adjust the current by altering the voltage between the green/gnd and black/enable with 2 volts and below being 0 amps 3 volts 33% 4 volts 66% and 5 and above 100% of available current suspect this would over ride the programmed settings ...


I think it doesn't so much override the programmed "curves" as impose a second limit on the maximum current. So ideally you use your programmed curves for most of the time, and only when the BMS detects an over-voltage cell do you use this control to cut back the current until the over-voltage situation goes away, then when you put >= 5 V on the control signal (WRT pin 2, "ground" (actually connected to pack negative, I believe)), then you are back to the programmed "curves" again.

Stated another way: my understanding is that the current you get is the minimum of two values: 1) What the "curve" says should be maximum current, and 2) what the control input says should be maximum current. So if your curve is set up for too low a voltage, this won't let you get more voltage out of the charger. However, if your charger is set for too high a voltage, you could use it to start tapering the current at a lower pack voltage than the built-in curve.

Whether the built-in curve is too low, too high, or just right, you can also cut back the current temporarily at any time, which is ideal for interfacing to a battery monitoring or management system.

I work on a vehicle with two TC Chargers, and both have the CAN interface. It's unclear to me whether the control input would work with the CAN interface models. I suspect not, because I don't believe we do anything with the control input, yet the charger charges the pack. However, I have seen others claim (perhaps it was on a web page) that the control input works for the CAN models the same as for the non-CAN models.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

mizlplix said:


> My Elcon 2500 only has two wires brought out of the small round connector.
> 
> They are currently soldered together. But, they are meant to be controlled by a BMS controller.
> 
> Even then, they are on or off. To my understanding, they are not proportionate.


My understanding is that even if you only have the two wires, you could still control the current by connecting a suitable resistor. There is supposed to be an internal 10k resistor from pin 1 (control input) to "ground" (pin 2, I believe this connects to pack minus). For example, 50% current should be achieved with 3.5 V on the control pin; you get about 11 or 12 V at the red wire (wrt pin 2). Let's call it 11.5 V, so you want to drop 8 V across the resistor. You'd need 8/3.5 x 10k = 22.9k; 22k would be close enough.

If you open up your 7-pin connector and bring out the ground wire (pin 2), you could get more fancy with a zener diode or a regulator, so you weren't so dependent on the rather variable voltage on the red wire. You could also use a lower value voltage divider so the input would not be so sensitive to glitches, or use a potentiometer for continuously (but manually) adjustable maximum current.

By shorting the red and black wires, you are connecting about 11.5 V to the enable input. Since this is well above 5.0 V, this sets the maximum current to 100%. When you open the two wires, the internal 10k resistor pulls the enable pin down to pin 2 ("ground"), so it sees less than 2 V there, so it sets the maximum current to 0%.

In fact, since the voltage will be less than 1.5 V, it seems to enter a "stop state", which may even open the internal relay and maybe put the charger into its "off" state where it draws very little mains current. 

So this enable pin can be used in "on/off" mode or proportional mode, depending on how fancy you make the external circuit.

All this is gleaned from scraps of info here and there; it is not tested.

Here is part of the "Connection Instruction of Control Interface" document I'm basing most of this on:



> 2. Battery protector option. This is a working mode when use battery protector or BMS which has no CAN communication function. Charging can be switched on or off the charging through charging enable control wire:
> (1) Charging process: When two enabling wires connect, charger starts cc charging while gets the external signal. And begin to charging CV when it reaches max voltage. During CV period, it stops charging automatically until current falls until to a preset value. If external signal is removed, charging stops as well.
> (2) PINs description:
> PIN 1: the input of enable voltage test.
> ...


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yep that all makes complete sense not much help if the charge curve set on the charger is too low for your pack but if like mine it is slightly on what is now considered high you can manipulate the current and cut off earlier and have added redundancy of the programmed shut off and a high voltage monitor disconnecting the enable using a relay, I will use the later until I have more time to go through and make small improvements, thanks for everyones input, I hope to fire the motor up for the first time today


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

When you 're done, do wiring diagram. Couple of pictures also please.


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## ndplume (May 31, 2010)

I'll ask this here since thread is Elcon-centric.

I just picked up an older (~4 yrs) PFC-3000. Non-Can Bus model. It does NOT have the 7 pin connector like the newer ones do. However, on the battery side cables, there is a 3rd wire bundled in (small diameter wire) with a sticker that looks like it can be used by a BMS to start/stop the charger. 

Has anyone seen this before and know how its used? There is no mention of it in the original manual that came with the charger. 

Here are 2 pics of the line/tag -

Thanks for any help on this,

Nom


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

ndplume said:


> Has anyone seen this before and know how its used? There is no mention of it in the original manual that came with the charger.


This has been seen and commented on before; search. The terms "Elcon" and "green wire" together should pull it up.

From poor memory, and the word "interlock", I think it's not what you want. I believe that it has 12 V [edit: it's actually *pack voltage*!] when the charger is on (or when it is off [ edit: yes ]), so you can implement an interlock, i.e. not drive when the charger is charging.

I didn't realise that there were pre-7-pin Elcon chargers about. I wonder if the control signal is in there, just not brought out on a connector for you? But that sounds silly.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

ndplume said:


> ... on the battery side cables, there is a 3rd wire bundled in (small diameter wire) with a sticker that looks like it can be used by a BMS to start/stop the charger.



this is intended to be used as an interlock while charging to prevent drive-away while still plugged in. It puts out pack voltage when not not charging, and 0 volts when charging, so you can use it to energize the potbox KSI, thence to controller KSI.


BUT you need to be aware it is not a 'good' interlock because what I found is that when charger is done charging and times out, voltage is restored whether or not you are still plugged in! So, it really only interlocks WHILE active charging is going..... bad design if you ask me.


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## ndplume (May 31, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> this is intended to be used as an interlock while charging to prevent drive-away while still plugged in. It puts out pack voltage when not not charging, and 0 volts when charging, so you can use it to energize the potbox KSI, thence to controller KSI.
> 
> BUT you need to be aware it is not a 'good' interlock because what I found is that when charger is done charging and times out, voltage is restored whether or not you are still plugged in! So, it really only interlocks WHILE active charging is going..... bad design if you ask me.


Thanks for the info, I haven't experimented with it yet, good to know it puts out pack voltage, that is a bit high for my interlock relay. I guess if you had/wanted a "charging" indicator, it could be used. Would have been nice if they output 12V, that would be a bit safer for a control line.

When I had this unit over in Sacramento for programming, the service guys said the chassis is the older version and that the control plug wasn't active? I asked them about using P1 & P3 to enable/disable charging. They said won't work on this model. 

The connector it has is the opposite of the current plugs. Meaning, it has pins in the plug, where as the new ones have sockets (I've seen one of those), so technically it HAS a 7 pin plug, but just doesn't match the new one.

Thanks again


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

ndplume said:


> Thanks for the info, I haven't experimented with it yet, good to know it puts out pack voltage, that is a bit high for my interlock relay. I guess if you had/wanted a "charging" indicator, it could be used. Would have been nice if they output 12V, that would be a bit safer for a control line.



yeah, it would be a lot more useful as an interlock if it were 12v, and put it out ONLY when the unit was unplugged!


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