# VW Golf Mk2 - VoltsWagon



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Here's my baby. I love it. She was converted and complete 7,000 successful miles but the owner was moving abroad and sold the 120V lead pack and took his controllers, charger and ancilliary stuff with him in his camper.

The car has been on here before and on the UK battery vehicle site and is well documented.

The car was run on 120V originally before being 'tweaked' up to 156V!! With a 1200A controller it must have been quite a handleful!!

My aims are more modest and I'm very grateful to he previous owner for moving abroad and selling it to me.

I wish to build a modest performing commuter vehicle. 144V/500A controller with a lithium pack. My commute is on 6 miles each way but I also wish the car to be useful around town for short errands and stuff.

My plan is to build in a 60Ah 144V pack which can then be added to with another 60Ah at a later date. That should give me a well performing car with good range.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Photos to come once I've figured out how to upload them...any advice? Do I need a PhotoBucket account or equivalent?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Ace,

Yes, put the pictures on a photobucket account, then you can copy the address links over here 

Looking forward to the pics.

Paul


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)




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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I've bought an EV200 contactor to switch the high voltage and plan on switching the EV200 from the 'ignition'. I also plan to run an emergency shut-off (big red button) in series with the 'ignition' switch wire so that I can simply hit the Big Red if something fails and I need to cut the supply. The Big red will be in the cab within reach of both driver and passanger.

For wire I'm going to go big, probably too big but hey. I plan on using a 144V/500A controller from Paul & Sabrina so I'll spec the battery circuit wire and the motor circuit wire for 500A. The battery pack will be 60Ah to begin with and the Sinopoly cells are rated at 3C continuous and 5C for up to 10secs so I plan to drive keeping under 300A.

I plan to fuse the battery circuit and the motor circuit but am not yet decided upon which kind of fuse to use or the rating. I'm thinking 400A. Either a 


Enlarge

Ferraz Shawmut

or a Little Fuse as they're somewhat less expensive.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Cool. So you decided to get Sinopoly cells. I'll be watching with interest. My 96V -> 144V upgrade is almost complete.

Your golf looks prettier than mine, hehehe.

Regarding fuses: get ones that are rated for DC. I'm not sure if even 415V AC rating is enough for breaking DC. I got mine from discountfuse.com even they don't ship outside of USA. There are cheap mail forwarding services to take care of that problem, hehe. I just couldn't locate any fuses at acceptable prices inside EU.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Ace,

Be sure to get info about emergency disconnects. DTBaker has some good info in http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/emergency-responder-warnings-57522.html


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Mora,

Well, there is a story about the Sinopoly cells. I had decided against lithium based on initial cost and was going to buy them later once we'd moved house and had baby number two, who is due in May. I'd had a quote from a guy on here (Skooler) initially and he generously lowered his asking price to help me out!! I couldn't say no so hopefully I'll order 45 60Ah cells this week and they can be put on a slow boat from China.

I did the full weight comparison of lead Vs lithium and that weight saving alone should extend my range significantly. The extra voltage will help me out on range and will hopefully extend the life of the Sinopoly cells too.

I hope to add another 60Ah at a later date.

Are you running BMS? I wasn't going to bother as I will keep a close eye on them and monitor voltages etc. In truth I don't really fully understand what the BMS does other than communicate with a charger to ensure that no cell in the pack gets over charged. Advice welcomed.

About my Golf being prettier than yours; your car is my inspiration and if I can get close the professionalism and comprehensiveness of your conversion then I'll be a happy chappy.

I am fortunate that the previous owner did a full bodywork and respray about 18 months ago. I love the car and it's not even moving yet!!! 

More pics and updates as the car develops.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I was planning on putting an interia switch in there too in case of heavy impact.

I'm in internal debate as to whether to have the 'ignition switch, emergency Big Red Button and the interia switch all in series in the main contactor swicth wire or whether to have seperate EV200 contactors to cater for it failing closed. Opinions welcome.

I don't really want 144V in the cab of the car but might put an Anderson connector in the trunck and one under the hood. Might prove useful during maintenance too.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

I use miniBMS. It will alert you if any cell goes too low on voltage during drive and will terminate charge if any cell goes too high during charging. It is very simple, easy to install and propably one of the cheapest too. Some say BMS isn't necessary but I wouldn't go without it. You should monitor your cells somehow in any case. Ah-counter and total pack voltage monitoring isn't enough in my opinion.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mora,

I plan to monitor closely by hand to begin with and then perhaps I'll get a BMS and miniBMS certainly looks good value for it's functionality.

A question for you: what is your current draw like under normal driving?

Thanks for the fuse link. I think I'll fuse the battery circuit and the motor circuit...unless the controller already offers suitable protection already.

Maybe when the Golf is ready we should meet up at the Nurburgring . I wonder what the lap times would be .


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Hehehe. Could we make two full laps if taking it slow?

When going on flat road: ~125A to maintain 80 km/h, 175A to 100 km/h. In city I rarely exceed 200A during acceleration and can cruise using 50A when going 50km/h. Less than that means even less amps. I use second gear all the time. If going faster than 60 km/h I put in third gear. I have to use 4th gear to get to 100 km/h. 96V is too low for my 220V Kostov and torque drops early. 144V should be good though. Actually I'm upgrading because of heater but any extra top speed/lower amps is good too. I think I'll downsize my cables a bit and put them into orange wiring conduit. 70mm^2 (2/0?) is needed only for motor loop, other battery cable can be 50mm^2 or even 35mm^2 for my needs.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mora, that will help me to specify my wiring and fuses, etc. I plan to specify all the wiring to cope with 500A and 144V just to give me the scope to make changes later to maximise the controller.

I have bought a 500A ammeter and shunt too and it looks like I've just found a vacuum switch from a guy here in the UK. I'm going to run without a reservoir to see how it goes as I have found a UP28 pump which should be fine without. It must be better than the central locking pump that is on there at the moment!!

With my intended 144V 60Ah lithium pack I will have room to spare in my rear battery tray and won't even touch the front one!! This thing is going to be light!!! I might use the space up front for groceries and shopping. Might help with traction too


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## josh-uk (Feb 5, 2012)

A very nice car and setup, I am interested to see how your conversion turns out, keep the pictures coming! BTW, I like the name, original


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheers Josh. Mora and I are planning a trip to the Nurburgring!!!


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## josh-uk (Feb 5, 2012)

That's quite a drive, how do you plan on getting the ev's there? Remember to film the lap btw


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

It would take few recharges, eh?! I'm not serious...it was a little joke!


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## josh-uk (Feb 5, 2012)

heheh i know i know  tow a trailer with a ton diesel generator on it, should get you there!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi Fin,

My Open Revolt controller, programmed for Hall Effect 'throttle' has been dispatched and is somewhere in the San Fran area. Hopefully it will find its way to me in the next week.

The charger is ordered and is being manufactured as we speak. I'm going for a 144V pack.

The batteries is where the greatest effort has been exerted. After much thought and consideration I decided upon 144V 60Ah of Sinoploy cells. I found a very useful person in Skooler, on here, and he offered great advice over a prolonged period. In the end though, due to a logistical problem of my own making (!), I have decided to go with cheap lead to get me going. If they last two years then great. I'll then reconsider my options.

The Sinopoly cells would have offered a nice simple install and would work out cheaper in the long run but...

I'll have a job to fit in the 12 lead batteries and the extra weight will cause me problems as the lithium would have been about 1/3 of the weight.

I found a secondhand, but unused, vacuum pump kit on eBay which was a bargain. I've gathered fuses, ammeter, shunt, voltmeter and a hair dryer (for in cab heating) and am ready to start assembling...just need to move house and have a baby!! Ah, and found a good source for EV200 contactors so am going with two of those...one for main and one for precharge. I'll need another to switch the hair dryer on and off too but I'll get the car going and street legal before worrying about heating.

What are you considering building?

Cheers,

Adam

   
Posted 03-19-2012 at 09:28 PM by Ace_bridger














The controller kit arrived today!!! I went for the Open Revolt as originally planned. Paul has been great with advice in the early stages which continued through until delivery, a pleasure to deal with.

Having decided on lead I now need to choose something suitable. I'd like 12 off 12V Trojans and have seen some priced reasonably.

Once we've moved house I'll order the batteries and the charger should arrive at a similar time.

I laughed with a guy at work today who has just bought a VW Golf Mk4 GTi. We were calculating his running costs and specifically his fuel costs. The GTi does about 20 mpg so he's swapped cars with hsi wife as she does fewer miles each week. The sooner I can get the Mk2 on the road the better. I'll use the electric bike until then.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

A hydraulic rig at work was being scrapped so I...ahem...help to lighten the load for the scrap man and now have some nice switches and emergency big red button!!

Also, I managed to get an unused vacuum pump kit from a guy who had bought it for a hot rod project which didn't happen. It's a nice piece of kit from The States and comes with vacuum switch, wiring, piping, mounting bolts, relay and instructions!!

I took my 18 month daughter out to the car at the weekend and we played in there...she loves it...I love it. It smells like a classic car and feels like a 'real' car. I grew up driving classics and I can't wait to get this on the road...a simple lightweight car without all these added extras like AC, sat nav, etc...love it!!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Adam,

Nice to see you back, great news on getting the controller, I'm ordering mine from Paul this week!

How did you get on in the end regarding the UK VAT & Import duty? You can PM me if you prefer re. this 

Can't wait to see piccies of the progress, looks like you'll be on the road in no time.

Paul


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the welcome back! I've decided to keep the blog running for posterity!!

PM sent. No issues with anything associatted with the controller. Paul was great. Will be getting to work on it after hours at work and one of our electronic gurus will be helping me ensure that the mod for Hall Effect goes smoothly...what with me being a Mech Eng afterall!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Forget the PM. No probs with import pax or vat. Paul will offer good advice and help out.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Great to see you back on the forums 

Really looking forward to seeing this progress.

Good luck with the conversion, moving and what Mr stalk brings you!

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mike


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

skooler said:


> Great to see you back on the forums
> 
> Really looking forward to seeing this progress.
> 
> ...


Same here, good to see you back and expecting!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Woody!! Stop now, you're making me blush!! I hope you're well.

I ended up getting a complete vacuum pump kit inc. switch...shall I send your vacuum switch back?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> Thanks Woody!!
> shall I send your vacuum switch back?


Hang on to it for now, I'll see if I need it. It may just do the rounds of the UK members.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ok Woody, that's very good of you. I'll keep my ears peeled for anyone who needs it but will, of course, check with you first.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

A momentus day today...I started work on the control board of the Open Revolt!!! Only 8 resistors in but I've started!!

Paul supplied the kit with the correct resistor values to suit my Hall Effect 'throttle' but I still need to figure out exactly what mods I need to make such that my 0-5V is acceptable rather than the 0-5Kohm. I need to find a circuit diagram and go from there.

The chip came pre-programmed with the appropriate software to suit the 0-5V.

The accessory battery is waiting for me at the post office so I'll soon be able to estimate how much work I have to get all of the 12V stuff working.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

All resistors in and all info received on how to mod the Open Revolt to accept the Hall Effect 'throttle'.

Info and pics to follow...

Some diodes and caps in today...


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## EV_dub (Aug 30, 2010)

AHHHH-ha. I heard there was a thread on here. To be honest I was avoiding trying to see it. I was sad to of departed with her!!

Needed some time away to get over her!!

Anyway glad to see your making some progress Paul!

So whats the latest???

I dont have a garage at the moment, only a load of parts to build something new! But my girlfriend says I have to learn German first!!!!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey buddy!! I know you must be sad but please rest assured that she's in safe hands.

She is on my drive and gets washed weekly. I have everything bar the batteries now and have made good progress on the controller. I'm building it in my lunch hours at work using the kit there so it's slowish going but what I'm doing I'm doing well!!

I picked up a brand new vacuum pump kit cheap and all other parts are ready.

I have moved house since I got her and our second baby was due yesterday (but no sign) so I do have some reasons for the slow progress!!

I'll drop you an email with up-dates and pics.

Cheers,

Adam


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## BigBadWolf (May 23, 2012)

hi, i'm new to this site. I am also planning to convert my mk2 to ev, but i'm a total beginner.
Just a question, could this be the above mentioned 'hotrod' 
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=_9OIvCuUVDk


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi Big Bad,

Let me have any questions and I'll do my best to assist. I was lucky, I bought my Golf part converted but if I can help with sizes, options, etc then please let me know.

Cheers,

Adam


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Baby boy born on 9th May weighing 9lb11oz!! Born in the back of the ambulance doing 50 mph down the A35!! Delivered by Paramedic Pete and me!!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> Baby boy born on 9th May weighing 9lb11oz!! Born in the back of the ambulance doing 50 mph down the A35!! Delivered by Paramedic Pete and me!!!


Congratulations!


Hopefully both he and mum are doing well. You'll soon be building electric ride on toys so he can be 'Just like daddy!'.


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## BigBadWolf (May 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> Baby boy born on 9th May weighing 9lb11oz!! Born in the back of the ambulance doing 50 mph down the A35!! Delivered by Paramedic Pete and me!!!


Well congrats!








There is no such a joy that can compare to that...
I suppose now you are more into infant nutrition than EV's?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Congratulations ACE. Now to get a little EV for the little tike to grow into.










Pete


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## BigBadWolf (May 23, 2012)

EV_dub said:


> AHHHH-ha. I heard there was a thread on here. To be honest I was avoiding trying to see it. I was sad to of departed with her!!
> 
> Needed some time away to get over her!!
> 
> ...


Again with the same link, ist that you in the car EV_dub?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=_9OIvCuUVDk
Can you briefly describe how did you perform a conversion, and how much did it cost?
Do I need to be a rocket scientist to perform it on my mk²?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Many thanks for all the congrats messages!! Everyone is doing well...exhausted but doing well! I've pretty much finished the controller build and just have to glue on the current sensor and thermocouple and I'm ready for bench tests.

Big Bad: yep, that's her on YouTube witht the previous owner. Running on 120V before his up-grade to 156V.

You dont need to be a rocket scientist just some basic engineering skills or access to people that have. I'll come back with more details of how but first read the Wiki on here. There are about 5 basic steps to understand. Off to change a nappy!!!!

happy days!!


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## BigBadWolf (May 23, 2012)

Thanks ace, I'll do that.

Btw, enjoy changing diapers until the baby is about six months old. That's the time for a mommy to take over


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

BigBadWolf said:


> Thanks ace, I'll do that.
> 
> Btw, enjoy changing diapers until the baby is about six months old. That's the time for a mommy to take over


I'll counter it with, if you keep doing as much as you can as long as you can even into the teens your wife will bitch less when you go out to work on your projects.


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## BigBadWolf (May 23, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> I'll counter it with, if you keep doing as much as you can as long as you can even into the teens your wife will bitch less when you go out to work on your projects.


I enjoy spending time with my baby, even at nappy and feeding time. just teasing ace.
But lets face it, our beloved ones are going to bitch anyway, ESPECIALLY when it comes to working on our 'stupid' projects. 
Sorry for the offtopic.

As I am reading wiki, It seems more and more likely there is going to be one more green mean machine out there in couple of months...


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Sounds good Big Bad!! Do it!! Do it!!

I spent 3 hours in the rain on Tuesday fitting the new vacuum pump for the power brakes. I mounted the pump in the front off-side corner of the engine bay as I figured that it should best chance of being out of the way of everything else down there. The 12V supply tothe relay came from the existing wire that the previous owner had rigged up to his pump. Before I connected it the turn signals and headlights worked fine...after I fitted the pump the turn signals come on but dont flash!! I pulled the vacuum pump fuse and the lights worked fine again!! I think I'll run a new supply to the vacuum pump straight from the cars fuse box to solve this.

I was wetter than an otter's pocket but pleased to have it running first go. I still have a bracket to make up to carry two of the vibro-mounts for the pumps but that won't take long.

My charger arrived and it looks great. It's a 2.5Kw from EV Source. They were very easy to dela with and no problems. I had it programmed for lead acid but I am, again, in internal debate whether to go lithiumm and send the charger back for re-programming!!! The enternal internal debate continues...I know what the correct technical solution is but then lead would do just fine for my fairly modest commute. I'll see if I can find any loose change down the back of the couch!!

I have plans to make up a aluminium checker plate platform for under the hood to carry the controller, batteries, etc under there...should look very nice once the cables and wires are bound up in conduit.

I also have some ideas for cab heating. I bought a 2Kw 110V/240V hair dryer but have some ideas for designs of something a little more appropriate. I'll see what I can conjure during my lunch hours at work!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

...check out Mora's car in the garage on here. I've been borrowing ideas and his blog and description are very enlightening.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> I had it programmed for lead acid but I am, again, in internal debate whether to go lithiumm and send the charger back for re-programming!!!


My offer still stands


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

No, definately lead, but thanks for the offer again Mr Skooler...I've definately decided now. I know that lithium makes about 10 times more sense but lead it is!! My requirements are modest and the battery trays are built for those Trojans.

I'm bench testing the Open Revolt with the hall effect input and struggling somewhat to match the software requirement with the hall input. Normally the software knows what to expect from the pot input but I have modified software from Paul @ Paul&Sabrina. What a guy! He really does deserve a medal! Neither Paul nor I can access the software at present so he's sending me some kit to help reprogram the chip.

Once this is done I will hopefully have a working controller...unless I find some other problem of my own making!!

I am also working through another problem with the lights on the car. When I put the left indicator on it flashes fine but the side lights, front and rear, come one! When I put the right indicator on it flashes just fine but the front inner headlight and the rear side light come! Weird. Might be something to do with the VW parking light thing. With the ignition off and the indicator on the side light on that side comes on for use as a parking light if you're parked in the dark. Perhaps there's a wire disconnected near the ignition so the car thinks the ignitions off. I shall persevere.

It was Father's Day here yesterday so I managed to get some time to cut the mounting board for under the bonnet (hood). I still need to fix this down, with M8 bolts, drill a big hole for the clutch cable. Then this area is ready for mounting some of the batteries, controller and connections box.

I re-made all of the earth connections on the car at the weekend too and put an earthing strap from accessory battery -ve to the car body. I later heard from the previous owner that this isn't necessary as he brought all earths back to the battery thus isolating the 12V stuff from the car body in case of a high voltage short to the body.

The vacuum pump was earthed to the body and worked great once I'd fitted the earth strap. I'll just run an seperate earth from vacuum pump to the battery and it should be fine.

Hopefully this week will bring a working, on the bench, controller! Fingers crossed.

I downloaded RTD Explorer and had a quick play. It looks great! Once the car is up and running it will be a great tool to check performance and set the car up.

That's all for now...chow chow.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> No, definately lead, but thanks for the offer again Mr Skooler...I've definately decided now. I know that lithium makes about 10 times more sense but lead it is!! My requirements are modest and the battery trays are built for those Trojans.
> 
> I'm bench testing the Open Revolt with the hall effect input and struggling somewhat to match the software requirement with the hall input. Normally the software knows what to expect from the pot input but I have modified software from Paul @ Paul&Sabrina. What a guy! He really does deserve a medal! Neither Paul nor I can access the software at present so he's sending me some kit to help reprogram the chip.
> 
> ...


Hi Adam,

I'm in the same boat, just too much upfront cost!

Great progress by the way, I'm really looking forward to seeing this come together


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Controller looks like it works. Does everything it should as far as I can see.

I ran it with a 24V motor running at 12V so it was slow. It also had a gearbox on which slowed it even more. I couldnt really see a marked difference between a little throttle and a lot but it was going round so I guess it works.

The hall throttle output needs to be 0.6V at zero throttle but I havent figured out the upper threshold yet. I guess something like 4.5V but not sure yet.

Got hit by FedEx for input duty on the charger...add another £110 to the total spend!! W******. Beware.

Hope to bolt down the mounting board onto which I'll mount the controller, 5 (?) pack betteries and the contactor and relay box this weekend.

I've heard rumours of Trojan batteries giving 700 cycles if treated nicely. With 144V 150Ah (reduced to 78Ah considering my estimated current and 80% DoD) that gives a pack of 11,232Wh. The car should be about 300Wh/mile so that gives 37 miles range. With 700 cycles that gives 26,208 miles in total in the life of the pack. If I do 4000 miles per year the pack might, and I say might, last 6 years or so!! If I get anything like that...even half that life...I will be happy with my lead pack.

We'll see!!

I have a lot to do but was thinking of making a mini PC running RTD explorer and connected to the Open Revolt. I have no experience of programming but it can't be that difficult to run the PC to a TFT screen in the cab to display Ah used, Ah left, range, etc....can it?!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I ordered 12 Trojan T1275 batteries today from http://trojan-batteries-online.co.uk

They were easy to deal with and gave me free delivery.

I ordered them today, Friday, with expected delivery on Monday or Tuesday. Very good.

The price was good too.

I'll up-date this post with another once the batteries have arrived but so far http://trojan-batteries-online.co.uk have been very good.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Clutch cable connected today. It works fine apart from when you push the pedal the whole clutch lever resists on the spring to begin with and then pops right down to the floor. I can hook it back up with my foot and it pops straight back up!! More work needed here I think! I'm not too bothered about the clutch anywho at the moment, I just need to attach the cable as it passes straight through my mounting board which sits under the bonnet to carry some of the lead, controller and 'lecky stuff.

Board bolted down today too.

And new head light fitted. Still have 12V electrical issues.

Beer - Hobgoblin.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Batteries arrived today with no problems. I haven't checked voltages or anything but all indications are that the supplier is very good.

It took my 20 mins to load the batteries (33 Kg each!) into the car to get them out of the rain.

I have, at the moment, 6 up front and 6 in the boot. She's still a little tail heavy but there's no way I can get more than 6 under the bonnet. I might look to lowering the front suspension if I get the time!!

Here's some pictures. The batteries arived today so I have only placed them where they look like they wanted to go. Some fine tuning needed. I might end up with 8 in the back and 4 up front but don't really want that.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Looking good .

How do you plan on clamping the cells down?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The ones in the boot are pretty well restrained anyway being in a frame but I will pack out any gaps to stop any movement.

The ones under the bonnet are slightly more problematic. There's 200Kg of lead there which in a crash will quite happily keeping moving even if the car stops!!

I have a few thoughts at present. I will probably strap them all together whatever I do, just to make them more managable.

My desire is to stop their forward movement when the car stops so I was thinking of a stainless frame which runs around the front of the batteries and back to the fire wall or something structural back there. There is a steel frame under the batteries which carries the weight. I might come off that and make a braced bar which runs across the front of the pack. The problem there is one of space as that space is reserved for the controller and electrics box (contactors, shunt, relays, etc.). They'll probably be room for everything there, I just need to mock it up.

I found two steel angle brackets which are made of box steel which may well take a starring role in the battery restraint! Never throw anything away!!

I'm just about to get the controller on the bench and hook it up to RTD Explorer to see if it's working correctly and to retrieve the settings for the throttle. I'm hoping for good news!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's a sight, all the batteries in.

Is it really too tight to turn the two front batteries around to get two more in there?
Maybe uprated rear springs and adjustable dampers at the back end would level it and be more adjustable to get the feel right.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sorry to keep blabbering about my own convesion.. 

I have quite a similar setup in the rear and found that they do jump around quite a bit without clamps! (mine were wedged in) I would seriously look into clamps.

Take a look at post 124 if your after ideas 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61556&page=13

I agree that you need something to stop the cells moving/sliding forward when you stop suddenly, on mine I have gotten away with it as my cells but up against the slam panel. I like your idea.

Good luck with the controller!

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Alfred: I'll have a look this weekend whether I could squeeze two more under the bonnet. I'm just natural hesitant of shorting on the under side of the bonnet!!

If I can get 2 more under there then it would leave room for 4 more in the boot!! No, Adam, no!! Bad idea!!

Mike: Thanks for the info about the batteries jumping. I might strap them down and pack them out in that case. Good to hear of others experiences!! It might have saved me scrapping a battery or two.

You have lead in your Mazda?

I got the controller hooked up to RTD Explorer and got the parameters off. I think I understand what it means. I guess 1023 bits equals 5V of throttle and have just interpolated to convert the bits to volts.

I'm going to hook it back up after work and try to simulate the hall throttle input with the voltages I've calc'd. I'm hoping to see the PWM output in RTD. We'll see!!

Thanks for the input and suggestions, keep them coming.


----------



## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

You could also try ticking RT (raw throttle) in RTD and untick all the other options. If graph changes you got your throttle signal there. Though I'm not sure if that software modification makes it impossible to plot raw throttle signal anymore.

I'm also interested in modding my controller to accept hall effect throttle. I'm keeping an eye on your experiments, hehe. Do you sell those motorsport HE throttles?


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> If I can get 2 more under there then it would leave room for 4 more in the boot!! No, Adam, no!! Bad idea!!


Do It  



Ace_bridger said:


> Mike: Thanks for the info about the batteries jumping. I might strap them down and pack them out in that case. Good to hear of others experiences!! It might have saved me scrapping a battery or two.
> 
> You have lead in your Mazda?


Yeah, I bought a very cheap Lead Acid pack (£800, 18KWH!) to get going with, if it only lasts a year then I'm happy 

I just couldn't bring myself to spend £12k+ on lithium until I know that everything else works perfectly! and I diddnt see the point in buying a cheap lithium pack as I'll have to reuse it if I ever upgrade! I'm starting to plan my next project and its not going to have small lithium pack!

Anyway, the plan with the RX8 is to upgrade to a 48KWH Sinopoly pack once I'm happy with everything else, kind of similar to the decision you made 

By the way, I think that your golf will go like stink once its done!

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

mora said:


> You could also try ticking RT (raw throttle) in RTD and untick all the other options. If graph changes you got your throttle signal there. Though I'm not sure if that software modification makes it impossible to plot raw throttle signal anymore.
> 
> I'm also interested in modding my controller to accept hall effect throttle. I'm keeping an eye on your experiments, hehe. Do you sell those motorsport HE throttles?


Hey Mora,

Yep, Raw Throttle is still an option in RTD Explorer and I had a play after work today. I got a successful change in throttle and that parts looks good. I wasn't running a motor/load and didn't have any 'pack' simulated...so just the board powered and a DC supply to simulate the throttle input with the newly discovered parameters.

The PWM which was plotted was zero at zero throttle and maximum at anything other than zero throttle. So even a little throttle gave 100% PWM which from speaking with Paul is to be expected. Something to do with the throttle being proportional to motor amps.

I'm pretty happy that the controller is working so might just silicon it all up, make the ends caps and fit it in the car. If it doesn't work when connected then I'll deal with it. I need to be very concious of time wasted on this project as new baby demands attention!! Choochy coo!! Bless 'im, gorgeous!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

skooler said:


> Do It
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Mike,

I know exactly what you mean and I was disappointed to go with lead over lithium. But, once I'd done the calcs I figure that that pack I've just bought should do me for 5-6 years if treated well and whilst lithium is definately cheaper /mile I have such a modest commute (10 miles inc) that lithium would be over specifying the pack, for me. That's how I've justified the purchase to myself anyway! The biggest thing i'll miss about lithium is the weight savings though...jeez those Trojans are heavy!

I have been thinking about how a stripped out MX-5 (or equiv) might go with an 11'' motor, 2000A controller and a lithium pack. I thought it might make a track day or hill climb car.

I do hope the Golf goes like stink. I'll be happy with moderate performance but it would be nice to be surprised!! It might convert some of the heretics at work too!! "An electric car? What, like a G-Whizz?" Gggrrrrr!!!!

Fun, fun, fun...men in their workshops!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

mora said:


> You could also try ticking RT (raw throttle) in RTD and untick all the other options. If graph changes you got your throttle signal there. Though I'm not sure if that software modification makes it impossible to plot raw throttle signal anymore.
> 
> I'm also interested in modding my controller to accept hall effect throttle. I'm keeping an eye on your experiments, hehe. Do you sell those motorsport HE throttles?


Sorry, Mora,

Yes, I can get you a motorsport hall effect, no probs. I'll get you a specification PM me with an email address.

They are fully programmable, at the factory, so you can choose what angle and what voltages you need out. I could always get one programmed the same as mine for use with Paul's modified software. He changed it for JackBauer when he first used his E46 hall effect. I have the same version.

I am uisng a Rover 100 throttle body to mount to to save time and effort. I still need to check whether the throttle cable travel on the Golf is compatible with the Rover throttle body but, to be honest, with the programmable HE I can make it do whatever I want!

Let me know if you want a specification and I'll get a price from our factory.

Cheers,

Adam


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I've had some success with finding the correct parameters for the hall effect throttle input on my controller...with help form Paul!!

"Anything below 0.5v should be an error, and 0.8v is considered zero throttle (anything below 0.8v and above 0.5v is zero throttle). And anything above 4.1v is full throttle, as long as it's less than 4.5v. So, I would set the pedal to 0.65v for zero throttle and 4.1v for full throttle." Thanks Paul!!

"Hi Paul,

I got connected to the controller and accessed the settings. They are attached. Could you have a look at the numbers and see if you agree with how I have converted bits to equivalent volts, please?

I’ve assumed that 5V is equivalent to 1023 bits so,

tminRC – 0164 bits is equivalent to 0.8V
tmaxRC – 0839 bits is equivalent to 4.1V
tfaultminRC – 0102 bits is equivalent to 0.5V
tfaultmaxRC – 0922 bits is equivalent to 4.5V

Does that make sense or am I way off?

Cheers,

Adam"


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Slow progress over the last two weeks. A family holiday and constant rain has twarted progress!!

I drilled the controller case today and plan to make the perspex ends next week.

I scored a free piece of steel which will form the perfect battery restraining bulkhead under the bonnet to stop the 200Kg of lead from moving forwards under heavy braking or impact with a tree. I'll get this fitted when the rain stops!!

We have a laser etcher at work so am planning some detail for the top of the controller box. I wanted the Open Revolt logo but the machine can't take jpeg files so I am limited just to text. Still, it will add some interest rather than just the plain aluminium.

My aim is to have the car on the road by Oct, before the nights draw in and cycling becomes a pain/danger!! Unless this rain stops I don't stand a chance.

Frustrated EVer!!

In my idle hours I was wondering about the alternative racing they do at Santa Pod and whether I might take the Golf to see she'll do on the 1/4 mile. Would be a giggle if all the UK members met up there and did a run!!


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> Slow progress over the last two weeks. A family holiday and constant rain has twarted progress!!
> 
> I drilled the controller case today and plan to make the perspex ends next week.
> 
> ...


Good progress

I'm up for Santa pod


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I think you might have the aerodynamic advantage!!

Two of us...let's see how else we can convince!!


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> I think you might have the aerodynamic advantage!!
> 
> Two of us...let's see how else we can convince!!


True, but roughly the same power and mines probably a fair bit heavier.

It would be good to line up next to woodys tractor!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Going OTT a little but I'm sure we'll get back eventually!!

http://www.aeracing.org/index.html

Fun, fun, fun!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Right, back to the car and enough of dreaming of the 1/4 mile at Santa Pod...that idea is firmly planted in the back of my mind ready for next May!!

I decided on final battery configuration under the bonnet today and found some suitable securing brackets.

I'm going for 6 up front and 6 in the boot. Having 6 in the boot should allow for a nice spot for the Elcon charger tucked down in the battery tray along side the batteries allowing easy placement of the temp sensor.

Under the bonnet, the fire wall will restrict movement aft and simple 90° box section brackets will keep them from moving forward, left or right.

The clutch cable is a pain but if I find I dont need it I'll just take it off.

The nice things about the configuration I have decided on is that three of the inter-connects (between batteries) can be done with LiFe style aluminium plates will I can knock up at work. They'll add stability bteween batteries and some rigidity of the pack.

I'm planning on strapping the whole pack together also to stop the vibration and make then a 'solid' assembly.

See pics.

The batteries also have little plastic bits for bolting which I will do...although they're not very strong but for the sake of a few bolts I think it's worth it.

PS. those brackets are speaker brackets and I need to track down two more to pick up the two outer most batteries.

PPS. The controller will go in the gap at the bottom left of the first picture and electrical box (contactors, etc) will go bottom right.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> Right, back to the car and enough of dreaming of the 1/4 mile at Santa Pod...that idea is firmly planted in the back of my mind ready for next May!!
> 
> I decided on final battery configuration under the bonnet today and found some suitable securing brackets.
> 
> ...


So are you doing anything to stop the batteries from lifting/bouncing around? 

From what I understand you are bolting the plastic bit on the bottom of the batteries?

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Mike,

No, the plastic bits are on the top edge.

I am planning on strapping the whole lot down to stop them bouncing and shorting on the under side of the bonnet!! That would be disappointing!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Just sorted the 12V lighting problem I had. The side lights would come on when the indicators were on, most odd!! The Golf has a parking light which is operated by the indicator stalk when the ignition is off and a wire or something has obviously come off since the previous owner had it on the road.

I decided, after much deliberation, to take the nucleur option and seeing as I don't want or need the parking lights anyway...I cut the 2 wires which run from the indicator switch which feed the side lights.

Next,

1) order the 35mm^2 cable to make up the 144V pack
2) secure batteries
3) make two perspex ends for the open revolt and secure
4) support all delicate components in the open revolt with non-corrosive silicon i.e. all gate resistors, wires, current sensor, thermocouple, etc

Chuffed to have a full working 12V system!! 

Wondering whether to keep the charger at home and connect via an Anderson connector or put the charger in the car. It is heavy...but would be an easier long term solution.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> Just sorted the 12V lighting problem I had. The side lights would come on when the indicators were on, most odd!! The Golf has a parking light which is operated by the indicator stalk when the ignition is off and a wire or something has obviously come off since the previous owner had it on the road.
> 
> I decided, after much deliberation, to take the nucleur option and seeing as I don't want or need the parking lights anyway...I cut the 2 wires which run from the indicator switch which feed the side lights.
> 
> ...


Me again!
I'm starting to feel jealous 
Have you got a crimper for the cable lugs?
I got mine from ebay and its simply brilliant.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-70mm-...ls_Supplies_Electrical_ET&hash=item2c5fddd4f0


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Mike,

I have the exact same one!! I got it for Christmas!! I'm looking forward to getting to use it...soon, I hope!




skooler said:


> Me again!
> I'm starting to feel jealous
> Have you got a crimper for the cable lugs?
> I got mine from ebay and its simply brilliant.
> ...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

If you decide to go for larger cables mine goes up to 150sqmm.









Not that I am bragging, it was just cheap at the time.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Wow, that is a large one Woody!! I'll keep that it mind.

I'm going to use 35mm^2 which I think will suffice. There is one large cable still on the car from the previous owner which is 70mm^2 (the cable not the previous owner!) but I think I'll remove and replace with 35mm^2...to save weight!! A drop in the ocean when the pack weighs in at 400Kg!!! 

.mj# (daughter wanted to type something!!)


Woodsmith said:


> If you decide to go for larger cables mine goes up to 150sqmm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> Wow, that is a large one Woody!! I'll keep that it mind.
> 
> I'm going to use 35mm^2 which I think will suffice. There is one large cable still on the car from the previous owner which is 70mm^2 (the cable not the previous owner!) but I think I'll remove and replace with 35mm^2...to save weight!! A drop in the ocean when the pack weighs in at 400Kg!!!
> 
> .mj# (daughter wanted to type something!!)


Hello daughter! <waves> 

I use 35mm^2 on my tractor and was planning on 70mm^2 or 95mm^2 for the trike as I have some. Not sure if I will use the cable I have though as it is a bit stiff, slightly fewer strands then welding cable. I found it at a scrap yard and it might go back to the scrap yard now that it is worth more. There is also some 120mm^2 in my cable pile!

I think the plan would be to have larger cable between controller and motor as that would be where the voltage would be lower and the current higher.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Reuse the 70mm^2 cable for motor loop if it isn't that big already. Motor amps can get to 500A where 35mm^2 cable won't do well. Maybe it is ok for really short times. That loop should be short anyway so there is not much weight added even if you use thicker cable.

edit: oops, Woodsmith suggested the same already. Should have read more carefully.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looks good. How good is the crimp? Have you compared the crimp quality with the old manual hammer type? Visually the hydraulic crimps look great. Quality of the crimp is questionable. Visually the hammer crimp is not so appealing but the quality of the crimp is superior. I have actually done this test twice and the results were the same. The prior test was with the basic copper lugs that are thin walled compared to these but the quality results were no different between the two. 






Pete


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> Looks good. How good is the crimp? Have you compared the crimp quality with the old manual hammer type? Visually the hydraulic crimps look great. Quality of the crimp is questionable. Visually the hammer crimp is not so appealing but the quality of the crimp is superior. I have actually done this test twice and the results were the same. The prior test was with the basic copper lugs that are thin walled compared to these but the quality results were no different between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tested mine to 1/2 ton (cant say that is 100% accurate!) using a fairly lashed together setup

Hydraulic crimp using the same crimper held up fine.

Out of about 50 crimps on my conversion, one has failed and that was due to a fracture in the lug.

More than good enough in my opinion.

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Not saying that they don't work. Many have used them for years trouble free but to me after seeing the insides it leaves it open to coming loose and corrosion getting in deep over time. I just trust my setup better. I also did not spend more than needed. Even if I open shop and do many EV conversions I will stick to the manual crimp method. I prefer quality over looks but I also like quality with looks if possible. I'd like to see the hydraulic crimpers put a bit more pressure on the lug to tighten the connection. That is a lot of tiny wires inside to connect up. If they all connect solidly then the connection remains cooler too. 

The photos speak for themselves. But everyone still insists on those good looking things. They don't pull out because of the ridge you impart on the cable. That does not mean it is a good solid internal crimp. It just means its tight and won't pull out. Mine on the other hand are solid and won't pull out but look uglier. 

To each their own I guess. Just wanted once again to submit an alternative way that is proven to be a quality crimp if done like I have shown.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Mine was a bit loose on the 35mm^2 crimps I was using. 
I was advised here that it might be due to thinner wall budget terminals.

So I recrimped using the 25mm^2 anvils. That left sharp flash sticking out so I second crimped with the hexagon turned one flat to crimp down the flash. 









The terminal is very very tight. 
I then sealed it with adhesive lined heat shrink.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Mora, Woody,

Thanks for the top tip. To be honest, I hadn't appreciatted that the motor loop shoul dbe larger than the battery loop. The motor loop is already on the car and I will check the size.

I know that the -ve is actually two cables parallelled but will check the +ve.

Whilst on that topic (ish), Mora, the Open Revolt has the M-ve as the output...did you simply connect the motor +ve to the pack +ve and the motor -ve to the controller output? I know that's what I understand to be correct but can't see why the controller would control the motor -ve and hence it leaves me with a niggling doubt.

I assumed that the PWM voltage stays constant whilst the duty cycled varied but I will follow your advice as more experienced EVers.






mora said:


> Reuse the 70mm^2 cable for motor loop if it isn't that big already. Motor amps can get to 500A where 35mm^2 cable won't do well. Maybe it is ok for really short times. That loop should be short anyway so there is not much weight added even if you use thicker cable.
> 
> edit: oops, Woodsmith suggested the same already. Should have read more carefully.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Woody...and thanks for adding the pics. Helps muchly.



Woodsmith said:


> Mine was a bit loose on the 35mm^2 crimps I was using.
> I was advised here that it might be due to thinner wall budget terminals.
> 
> So I recrimped using the 25mm^2 anvils. That left sharp flash sticking out so I second crimped with the hexagon turned one flat to crimp down the flash.
> ...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for advice and video Pete. I'd not really considered that there was another way of crimping.

I agree that the hammer looks more robust...but my wife would be disappointed if I didn't use my chistmas present!! Thanks to your advice I will be including a more thorough crimp inspection in my routine maintenance checks now.



onegreenev said:


> Not saying that they don't work. Many have used them for years trouble free but to me after seeing the insides it leaves it open to coming loose and corrosion getting in deep over time. I just trust my setup better. I also did not spend more than needed. Even if I open shop and do many EV conversions I will stick to the manual crimp method. I prefer quality over looks but I also like quality with looks if possible. I'd like to see the hydraulic crimpers put a bit more pressure on the lug to tighten the connection. That is a lot of tiny wires inside to connect up. If they all connect solidly then the connection remains cooler too.
> 
> The photos speak for themselves. But everyone still insists on those good looking things. They don't pull out because of the ridge you impart on the cable. That does not mean it is a good solid internal crimp. It just means its tight and won't pull out. Mine on the other hand are solid and won't pull out but look uglier.
> 
> To each their own I guess. Just wanted once again to submit an alternative way that is proven to be a quality crimp if done like I have shown.


----------



## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Yes, motor+ to pack+ and motor- to controller M- bar. Pack+ and motor+ are supposed to meet at controllers B+ bar.


Ace_bridger said:


> the Open Revolt has the M-ve as the output...did you simply connect the motor +ve to the pack +ve and the motor -ve to the controller output?


Controller keeps chopping full pack voltage and motor sees lower voltage because of chopping happens really fast. Motor amps are always higher than pack amps because controller works like power in = power out (+ losses). Losses are minimal here. Power = voltage * current. Output voltage can't go above input voltage and as a result motor amps are always higher than pack amps. Equal at best. If you know duty cycle at given moment you can calculate (somewhat correct) motor voltage and amps.


Ace_bridger said:


> I assumed that the PWM voltage stays constant whilst the duty cycled varied but I will follow your advice as more experienced EVers.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> Thanks for advice and video Pete. I'd not really considered that there was another way of crimping.
> 
> I agree that the hammer looks more robust...but my wife would be disappointed if I didn't use my chistmas present!! Thanks to your advice I will be including a more thorough crimp inspection in my routine maintenance checks now.


Some 4x4 chaps I know tend to think very deeply about the electrical connections to their winches, probably far more then some EV people do.
Their general method for testing the security of a terminal seems to be to hang the terminal on a hook on a beam and then lift themselves off the ground on it. If it can support their 200+ lbs off the ground then it is considered fairly sound.
They then solder it as well.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mora,

I'll follow your advice.



mora said:


> Yes, motor+ to pack+ and motor- to controller M- bar. Pack+ and motor+ are supposed to meet at controllers B+ bar.
> 
> 
> Controller keeps chopping full pack voltage and motor sees lower voltage because of chopping happens really fast. Motor amps are always higher than pack amps because controller works like power in = power out (+ losses). Losses are minimal here. Power = voltage * current. Output voltage can't go above input voltage and as a result motor amps are always higher than pack amps. Equal at best. If you know duty cycle at given moment you can calculate (somewhat correct) motor voltage and amps.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheers Woody!!



Woodsmith said:


> Some 4x4 chaps I know tend to think very deeply about the electrical connections to their winches, probably far more then some EV people do.
> Their general method for testing the security of a terminal seems to be to hang the terminal on a hook on a beam and then lift themselves off the ground on it. If it can support their 200+ lbs off the ground then it is considered fairly sound.
> They then solder it as well.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I had a good morning on the Golf today...for once the sun was out in Britian!! At one point I almost considered taking off one of my pairs of socks!! So mush for summer!!

Well, I isolated the 12V system from the car body today which was fairly straightforward as the previous owner had already done it!! To help fault find my 12V problem (indicators and side light issue) I had connect the battery to the body and all of the earths too so I just undid what I had done previously.

I finalised bonnet battery position and also boot battery positions, see pics. I also make provision for strapping the batteries down with ratchet straps. I only had two to hand so they're on but I need 4 more. It'll just be a case of fitting them once I get them.

My Elcon 2.5Kw charger will be located in the boot and I have decided that, although there is room in the battery tray, I will place it in the luggae space above the pack to help protect it from the slightly damper and dirtier environment of the battery tray. I think it will look nice inn there too. One of the pics below shows it in the tray but I'll move it from there.

The obvious thing about the photos is that there is space for two more Trojans in the rear battery tray...there's an obvious upgrade if the Open Revolt, rated at 144Vdc, would be happy with 168Vdc.

Err, what else did I do...oh yeah, I temporarily fitted the throttle body and hooked up the throttle cable to see if I was getting full movement on the throttle with the Golf's throttle cable travel. The throttle body I'm using is from a Rover 100 (oh, I've just been sick) and is lightweight plastic (that make all the difference with 400Kg of lead in there!). My Hall Effect TPS fits right on there where the old resistive sensor was so it's perfect and saved me hours of design and manufacture time.

I did get full movement so I'm good to go and set the HE sensor up with the outputs based on full movement. My wife sat in the driver's seat, having climbed across the passenger seat to get it, with Baby2 strappe dto her and Baby1 was in the passenger seat screaming that she wanted to sit in the driver's seat!! You can guess that this was a quick test!!

All good though and I'll go ahead and make the throttle enclosure from the scrap piece of perfect aluminium I found on the Chief Engineers radiator!! I'll fit the HE TPS to the throttle body and get it programmed to give me what voltages I need at zero and max throttle. It should simple but I'm yet to see the unforeseen!!

The vacuum pump is noisey so I will try and keep space to mount that on under the bonnet on the ply battery tray by the contoller and contactor box. It is currently bolted to the car body with 4 vibromount and it shakes the bumper!!

The last picture is of my temporary accessory battery with charger setup. I'll hard wire the charger and tidy up...promise!

I think that's it for today, a good day.

PS. Sorry, some of the pics are upside down. The first one is my breakfast upside down, tilt head to the right for the second, upside down for the third, head sideways to the right for the fourth...and the rest, I think, are obvious!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

She's alive!!! After a false start, with nothing when connected to 12V, the motor span into life when I hooked it up to 24V. Just a quick test to check that the motor is good before connecting up the controller and pack for a test run before final fitting of batteries and controller.

I just connected two batteries in series through an EV200 to the motor. With contactor closed the motor span up, awesoome!!

I've since started connecting up the controller for the dry run mentioned above. I'm going to connect up 24V to the controller with the throttle sensor before going for the full 144V just in case!!

Photos to follow once I get them off my phone.

I've lost my second EV200 which was due to be my pre charge contactor so I'll just sticjk the resistor straight across the main contactor for this test run.

Awesome day yesterday hearing the first signs of life from The Voltswagon!!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Pictures to accompany the previous post...


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I have a slight concern over the controller and whether it is working correctly.

I did a bench test with no pack voltage applied to the controller just to see if the control board was working correctly. I had it hooked up to a laptop running RTD Explorer and recorded the trace which is attached.

I was getting zero PWM output for zero throttle - perfect. I was also getting the throttle output displayed correctly on RTD. What I'm concerned about was that I was getting maximum PWM output with anything other than zero throttle i.e. any throttle apart from zero would give me max PWM output.

I emailed Paul (& Sabrina), who has been very helpful throughout the build, and he indicated that that was OK, see below.

“The default is throttle proportional to motor current (torque). So, if you give it 50% of full throttle, the PWM duty will be ramped up until the feedback is 50% of max motor amps, which would be 0.50*500 amps = 250 amps. So, in a 24v setup, you will probably see the pwm duty ramp up to 100%, since the motor amps won't make it to 250 from an unloaded motor.”

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any experiences which might help ease me worries about testing the controller and the car and have it run off at max PWM when I tough the throttle.

I will be testing the throttle, controller and motor on the car at 24V before proceeding to 144V!!!


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> What I'm concerned about was that I was getting maximum PWM output with anything other than zero throttle i.e. any throttle apart from zero would give me max PWM output.


I had the same experience: PWM ramp to 100% with no load. Sounds like it's performing as expected.

For your 24V testing you can also set the throttle parameters so it will operate at low current levels. I'm able to get steady motor speed in the 50A range on 24V.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Oh thanks for that Swoozle, that's a load off my mind. I'm hoping to have the prototype hall throttle programmed this week for testing at 24V at the weekend.

Maybe this weekend will see the car move under it's own power!!

Many thanks for your post, it's put my mind at rest somewhat.



swoozle said:


> I had the same experience: PWM ramp to 100% with no load. Sounds like it's performing as expected.
> 
> For your 24V testing you can also set the throttle parameters so it will operate at low current levels. I'm able to get steady motor speed in the 50A range on 24V.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, a milestone reached today!! My wife took the kids for drive so that I could connect up the Penny & Giles hall effect throttle sensor to the controller on the car with two of my Trojan batteries wired in series.

I just connected it all up and it work straight away!! I was a little disappointed as we all love a little bit of fault finding!! 

I had the laptop connected running RTD Explorer and recorded some traces.

All of the electrical side worked...although the EV200 main contactor got very very hot...I mean too hot to touch hot. I had the precharge resistor (100R 25W) wires straight across the contactor and that stayed at ambient temperature.

I do have a little mechanical noise like a fan case rubbing at low revs but that goes away once the revs are still quite low.

I thought I could smell burning at one stage but that may have just been me expecting to smell something going wrong!!

I've attached some pics of the traces and of the test because, hay, picture speaks a thousand words...and I don't know a thousand words so here's some pics!! Well chuffed that it worked and that the new hall effect worked straight off with no probs!!

The PWM did go to 100% well before 100% throttle but I think (and may well be wrong) that that will go away once I run at 144V and get some proper current going. Also, the PWM stayed at 100% right down until almost 0% throttle...again, I hope this goes away when I have full pack voltage. Either way, I will check that when I get everything installed during final fit.

Comments on the traces or the hot EV200 are very welcome...and on anything else either.

Just put some homemade wine in the fridge to celebrate later...now I just need to figured out what I'm going to do with the rest of this gloriously sunny day here in the UK!!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

What kind of current? With low voltage you can reach very high currents at 100%. Looks like you have good sized cables on the contactor.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Of course, that may be it. I've attached a trace of battery amps but I'm not yet sure of how many amps were running through the contactor.

I'll try and find out from RTD Explorer.



onegreenev said:


> What kind of current? With low voltage you can reach very high currents at 100%. Looks like you have good sized cables on the contactor.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Great Milestone!

my only thought is either the contactor is faulty or the precharge resister is causing it to warm up?

Not sure though!

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheers Mike,

I do have another EV200 but for the life of me I can't find it. I blame it on the house move!!

I think I'll just monitor it, like Mr Green says when I stick 144V across it the current should drop significantly...although I wasn't running the motor with any load so I would expect the power to have been significant.

Just demonstrated the working motor, throttle and controller to my wife...you can imagine the reaction, "well done love, shall we go inside now?"!! The baby had just made some amazing noises from his nappy so it was probably a good idea.

I just need to solve the strange mechanical 'rubbing' that I'm getting at low revs. Perhaps it will just go away if I ignore it?! 

MOT Mike?



skooler said:


> Great Milestone!
> 
> my only thought is either the contactor is faulty or the precharge resister is causing it to warm up?
> 
> ...


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> What kind of current? With low voltage you can reach very high currents at 100%. Looks like you have good sized cables on the contactor.


They are 35mm^2 in English, 290A continuous.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Congratulations!

It's hard to tell, but from your photos it looks as if the crimps on the contactor terminals are a little loose. Could the heat be coming from there?


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Oh yes, smooth throttle input. Mine is very spiky at the point I've used most. Bad resistive pot. PWM will stay up as controller is willing to see some "real" current and tries to make current flow. It is completely fine. Paul can confirm this.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mora, good news.

Your throttle issues will be a thing of the past once I send you the HE sensor!! 



mora said:


> Oh yes, smooth throttle input. Mine is very spiky at the point I've used most. Bad resistive pot. PWM will stay up as controller is willing to see some "real" current and tries to make current flow. It is completely fine. Paul can confirm this.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Malc,

They are nice and tight, it's just the insulation pulling back from where it's bent...I think.

I'm going with the low voltage high current theory and will monitor once I get some decent voltage on there.

No it's time to remove everything and put it back in permanently (hopefully). 



MalcolmB said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> It's hard to tell, but from your photos it looks as if the crimps on the contactor terminals are a little loose. Could the heat be coming from there?


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Did you run contactor at 24V? I mean coil voltage. You could disconnect high voltage wires from it and just close it (using 12V) and monitor its temperature. And measure on-resistance while you are at it. Even at 24V your amps should be well within contactor ratings. Mine doesn't ever get even warm to touch.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I was running it at 12V off one of the spare Trojans. The same one also gave the controller 12V supply.

That's a very good idea to just try it on 12V with no pack attached. I'll do that and monitor it. It doesn't have an economiser but I assume that the economiser just pulses the contactor to hold it in reducing power used. I shouldn't think this would affect the workings of the contactor itself?

The annoying thing is that I have another EV200 kicking around but I can't find it!! Ggrrr!!



mora said:


> Did you run contactor at 24V? I mean coil voltage. You could disconnect high voltage wires from it and just close it (using 12V) and monitor its temperature. And measure on-resistance while you are at it. Even at 24V your amps should be well within contactor ratings. Mine doesn't ever get even warm to touch.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Oh, both of mine have economizers. That must be bare coil you are feeding 12V into. I think the coil pulls too much amps without any regulation and gets hot. It might have same results when amps are lower (=economizer).

I had a broken economizer circuit but had hard time to find another one. Eventually I just bought new contactor as they can be found cheap on eBay.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can make a "poor man's" economizer by using a big capacitor in parallel with a resistor, in series with the coil. The capacitor should be sized such that the RC time constant is about 100mSec, so for a 10 ohm coil you want 10,000 uF. The resistor is usually about 5 times the coil, so a 50 ohm should work. So, without the economizer the 12V coil would have 14.4 watts, but with the economizer the coil would see 2 volts and 0.4 watts, while the 50 ohm resistor would see 100/50=2 watts.  YMMV


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

My 'other' EV200 has an economiser but where it is is anyone's guess since we moved house!!

Thanks for the suggestions and I might well just buy two new ones and sel this one...the lost one is bound to turn up then!!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> My 'other' EV200 has an economiser but where it is is anyone's guess since we moved house!!
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions and I might well just buy two new ones and sel this one...the lost one is bound to turn up then!!


got mine from here if that helps 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kilovac-E...t=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item43af8d50ee

They arrived quickly and had good customer service etc. If you buy them separately, on different days, they'll be shipped separately and you wont pay import tax 

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mike. I think I'll do that.



skooler said:


> got mine from here if that helps
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kilovac-E...t=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item43af8d50ee
> 
> ...


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I tested the EV200 tonight by just connecting the wires straight to a 12V battery with no high voltage connected.

After 5-7 mins it was very hot on the base. I think I'll avoid using it and buy two more.

Also tonight, I removed the controller and associatted high and low voltage wiring (now that I know it all works). I have to glue in the thermocouple into the heatsink and apply some supportive non-corrosive silicon to the flying leads and to anything that looks like moving or vibrating.

...and made up a few of the battery interconnecting 35mm^2 cables.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I connected the rear pack tothe front pack today, connected up the controller, pre-charge contactor and throttle...all connected up to full 144V pack voltage. I only got a kick once when touching the pre-charge contactor even with no power there which surprised me!!

Well, despite not having the throttle actually connected to the throttle cable, she moves!!! I ran long wires from the controller to the throttle and had it in my hand in the cab and drove her from in there!!

Forwards and backwards she ran quite happily. In 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th she pulls away. 1st is fine but second is smoother.

No pics I'm afraid but this is a momentous day!! One step closer!!

Next step is to bolt the controller and contactors down, wire in the shut and ammeter and mount the volt meter.

Great fun. Pics to follow...oh, and brakes seem good with the new vacuum pump kit!!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

You'll have EV grin for a few days now!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

It's about time I posted some pictures as text is pretty dull.

I managed to secure my contactors and controller today. Also connected the in cab volt meter to monitor pack voltage at the controller.

Also built the throttle body sensor housing thing with sophisticated adjuster (2 long M6 bolts holding an old bit of aluminium - works well mind you).

I also managed a quick road test (on private roads as the car isn't road legal yet!! )

There are a few issues though. I wouldn't say the car is quiet, there's some mechanical noise when I pull away which is like something rubbing on the motor as it increases with motor rpm and road speed. The vacuum pump is also bloody noisey...it's only mounted on two of the four mounting bolts so some improvement hoped for when it's properly installed.

Brakes seem to work well though which was pleasing on the road test!! 

I'm getting (what I assume to be) a high pedal lock-out sometimes when I first turn the car on but seeing as I'm a dumb-ass and didn't put the RS232 cable on the controller before fixing it in position I can't investigate fully. I'll take the controller out and put the lead on and re-assemble.

The day was spiced up by a few high voltage electric shocks which made things a little more fun!!

I think I'll ignore the mechanical noise for the time being and try and get the car road legal first and hope it goes away...if it doesn't I'll need to either investigate from beneath or remove everything from under the bonnet and investigate from there...I know I'm just putting of the inevitable but I have time pressures as I need the car road legal before the nights start drawing in...I normally cycle to work but don't want to cycle in the dark and wet.

Photos to follow...

PS. Bought a Subaru Impreza powered VW campoer last weekend!!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

This is the Rover 100 throttle body with TPS removed and motorsport hall effect sensor added. The aluminium I scrounged off a guy at work and the throttle body cost me 99p off eBay.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

ANother shot of the throttle assembly with TPS in the foreground. That sensor is a prototype one but will be replaced by a pucker one once everything is assembled and proved. Cable adjuster can be seen on the right (the two M6 bolts).

Mounted on top of the controller. I will monitor whether or not the HE TPS signal is effected by the strong magnetic fields under the bonnet. Early indications are that it isn't.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

That's the brake vacuum pump shown far right.



Ace_bridger said:


> ANother shot of the throttle assembly with TPS in the foreground. That sensor is a prototype one but will be replaced by a pucker one once everything is assembled and proved. Cable adjuster can be seen on the right (the two M6 bolts).
> 
> Mounted on top of the controller. I will monitor whether or not the HE TPS signal is effected by the strong magnetic fields under the bonnet. Early indications are that it isn't.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Pre-charge and main contactor with 100R 25w pre-charge resistor...needs tidying!!!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

She's alive!!! Big red button and cheap chinese voltmeter in the cab.

The voltmeter is showing battery voltage at the controller so that I can monitor the voltage when I turn the ignition on and ensure that pre-charge is happening. If I don't see decent volts within 7 secs on switching the ignition I can switch off and investigate.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

If you're going to use an extra contactor for the precharge, you should stick it on the other leg.

Needs tidying? You'd never find your way out of my rat's nest!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> Pre-charge and main contactor with 100R 25w pre-charge resistor...needs tidying!!!!


Understatement of the year?

Doing well with this. We're going to need video soon!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> If you're going to use an extra contactor for the precharge, you should stick it on the other leg.


 
WHat do you mean by the other leg Zig? The pre-charge contactor just switches the resistor across the main contactor.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Put one contactor on the negative leg, and have the precharge wired across the main contactor on the positive leg. When you turn on the negative contactor, the precharge is switched on. After precharge, you turn on the positive contactor and the controller gets full power. When you turn the contactors off (whether routine or in an e-stop scenario) power is removed from the controller on both sides.

That way your extra contactor also gives you another safety layer, while doing exactly what you want it to, instead of being largely wasted switching a < 1A load.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

So just as I have but with an extra contactor on the -ve.




Ziggythewiz said:


> Put one contactor on the negative leg, and have the precharge wired across the main contactor on the positive leg. When you turn on the negative contactor, the precharge is switched on. After precharge, you turn on the positive contactor and the controller gets full power. When you turn the contactors off (whether routine or in an e-stop scenario) power is removed from the controller on both sides.
> 
> That way your extra contactor also gives you another safety layer, while doing exactly what you want it to, instead of being largely wasted switching a < 1A load.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You have two in the pic. You only need the two. You'd take the precharge resistor off the one contactor and connect it across the other (which I assume is +) so you'd have traction cables and precharge connectors hooked to that one. Then the freed one gets connected in the negative leg with just traction cables on it.

It doesn't matter which one you stick the precharge across, it'll work either way, but the contactor without the precharge resistor will act as the precharge switch, and should be turned on first. Clear as mud?


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Ziggys way of doing it will make sure precharge happens every time. Doesn't matter if precharge contactor fails to operate, car won't move after precharge time has passed and all contactors close. Precharge contactor would get hot quickly in that case, hehe.

I took a guess how your contactor is wired. Image is very simplified but should show the difference.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Agh, that makes sense!! What a good idea! Makes complete sense...but what would I do with all the birds nest!!?? 

I could still use the timed contactor driver in the Open Revolt too!!

I might do that once I'm street legal. Thanks for the idea.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hold on...what if the contactor which has the resistor across it fails to close? You'd then risk passing up to 500A and full pack volts through the resistor!

Looks risky to me now...unless I'm missing something...which I may well be!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The resistor is relatively small and so would fail, like a fuse.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> The resistor is relatively small and so would fail, like a fuse.


Not so much like a fuse; more messy.

See first smoke.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> Hold on...what if the contactor which has the resistor across it fails to close? You'd then risk passing up to 500A and full pack volts through the resistor!
> 
> Looks risky to me now...unless I'm missing something...which I may well be!!


Mora's pic is great, but slightly off, or at least mislabeled from how I described. The precharge (switching) contactor is not the one with the precharge resistor across the terminals. It just switches ON the resistor, which is across the main contactor.

As for failure to close, it would be exactly the same as if the precharge contactor in your original plan worked, but the main contactor failed to close and you drove anyway (not possible in my car, not sure the details that allowed it in Coulomb's linked example).

Part of why I like a manual precharge circuit, or at least an automated sensing (not timed) one, is that if the controller were to fail on while parked (which seems to have been about the most common failure mode back when controllers failed often) the precharge would be prevented from completing. You should have a visual indication of the precharge in progress, and at least for mine there is (in addition to the 'clunk') an additional voltage jump as the main contactor is closed. So if either failed I would know before proceeding.

If precharge is on, but the main contactor is off, I get a tiny whine from the Curtis. and the car moves an inch. I feel dumb, wait a few sec for the precharge to recharge, and then turn the key and I'm good to go


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If the resistor is sized properly, and you try to drive, the capacitors will just discharge and you'd have an undervoltage condition. If the controller still tried to drive the motor, the resistor would just see the full pack voltage during that time. It may overheat, but would never see any more than the rated peak current for precharge. The power would be the full pack voltage times the current, so a 0.5 amp precharge on 144V would be 72W.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Mora's pic is great, but slightly off, or at least mislabeled from how I described. The precharge (switching) contactor is not the one with the precharge resistor across the terminals. It just switches ON the resistor, which is across the main contactor.


Yes, mislabeled. Precharge contactor should complete the loop and main contactor bridges resistor. In my previous picture closing contactor with resistor across it would have done nothing. Closing "main" contactor after that would have made life exciting.

Now if you'd combine those pictures you could completely isolate your pack when contactors are open. And you would have two controllers and two battery packs offering serious power.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Coulomb said:


> Not so much like a fuse; more messy.
> 
> See first smoke.


Yes, sorry, my reply was slightly tongue in cheek.

I small fuse could be put in line with the resistor to protect the circuit though. It would only carry the current needed for the precharge until the contactor close and took both the fuse and the resistor out of circuit.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I think I'll just stick with what I have but I see adding another contactor on the -ve as a very good up-grade...once I'm street legal I'll do that.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I just wanted to put all of the controller modifications in one place. I have modified the Open Revolt such that it is compatible with my hall effect throttle sensor. Many thanks to JackBauer and Paul Holmes for their help and assistance.

The mods to the Open Revolt control board are simple enough and I've attached the circuit diagram mod and description.

I've included some shots of the build but some of the mods are difficult to see as I've covered them with RTV3145, a non-corrosive silicon to support the components.

Basically I just bridged the existing components which needed linking out by bridging them with tinned copper wire which was then soldered. It was easier to bridge them and get a good connection rather than removed the component and try and get a stable connection with just tinned copper wire.

The components that needed removing I just snipped off with some side cutters.

The controller came pre-programmed with the software required so no mods required. Paul modified the software for JackBauer such that it matched his BMW E46 hall effect TPS...I programmed my hall effect sensor to match Jack's. Make sense?

If you want to do this too then you can either use the same E46 hall effect sensor as Jack, ask Paul to modify the software for your hall effect or get a programmable hall effect sensor like mine.

My sensor is a Penny & Giles SRH280 which is programmable...if you have the right kit...which I don't but I know a man who does!!


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

The Netgain WarP-Drive Hall-effect throttle also works with the jackbauer hardware and software mods to Open Revolt controller board (I'm using one).


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Glad its working guys. My controller has now over 12k miles on it with not one problem.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

For thos ethat need it, like Mora, I had my hall effect programmed to give 0.65V at zero throttle and 4.1V at full throttle.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I have a few little jobs to do before the car is ready for it's MOT (speedo cable, horn and some bulbs).

I'm planning on building an LCD EV meter for the car and am following http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/lcd-instrumentation-cougar-controller-16132.html

This open source thing is great. I have the BOM, schematic, build instructions and the firmware and there's a PCB on it's way from Ireland!! I hope to start this once the car is road legal.

Great stuff.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Good luck with the MOT when you get there.

Are you going to post your progress with the EV meter?
It would be good to see it going together.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Woody,

Thanks, it's been a reasonably speeding build all things considered...but then I did inherit a great deal from the previous owner. The motor was in and all the 12V stuff had aleady been done along with the front and rear battery trays...all I've done is build the controller, put it all together and fitted a brake vacuum pump really.


Yep, I'll post up-dates of the build and I'll try and get some staged pictures to add to the thread. It looks like a greta piece of kit.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Best you hurry up for the MOT!

Cant wait to see how this thing goes!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Finished off sorting all the lights for the MOT and fixed the horn (traced it back to a terminal pin in one connector).

Headlights weren't wortking but then magically they did!! I'll keep an eye on that buit glad they're working now.

Sent off the car's specification to the insurers (pluginsure) on Friday so hopefully they'll come back with something sympathetic!

I've added some more pics of under the bonnet, throttle set-up with HE sensor and a side view of the car loaded with lead!! Slightly tail heavy...and still room for two more Trojans, if I can push the Open Revolt up another 24V!!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sweet work!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

skooler said:


> Sweet work!


Toadally!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Got the insurance quote today for the Golf.

Fully comp for £375 with a voluntary £250 excess. That's with zero no claims discount applied. That's for me alone with no named drivers...I'm 38 years old (but I look more like 25!!)

I needed to supply a detail explanation of the conversion with photos and specifications.

I was quite pleased considering that I hope this car will perform quite well. I hope to get this cover in place and book the MOT!!! Still need to do the speedo cable though.

People at work are starting to get a little more interested...there were some that thought it was a bit of a joke..."haha, you're building a milk float!". They change their minds when they realise that it should leave most of their cars for dust (fingers crossed!) !!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> What's a voluntary excess? Is that like a deductable?


Its a fee you have to pay in order to claim. Adding a voluntary excess usually means the premium goes down.

You can normally claim it back if you are found to not be at fault for the accident.

To give an idea, on my 1998 Vauxhall/Opel Vectra (the shed) I have a £250 compulsary excess and then a £500 voluntary excess. Adding the voluntary excess reducs my premium by about £200.

I'm a bit jealous at £375! mine is £590 for the RX8! (21 years old, 4 years and 11 months no claims, 1 speeding ticket)


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Sounds like a good concept. I despise insurance here because it is the exact opposite of what it's supposed to be good for (very low maintenance with some, but not all protection in a disaster.) I pay $5k annually for health insurance and have a low deductible, when I would much rather have it the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's the problem. Here they look at your 5 year history, so having an accident nearly 5 years ago is the same as having one yesterday.


Interesting, although I have never had an accident, I'm just young and haven't been driving long enough!

I know of some 17 year olds in the UK who are having to pay over £3,000 ($5,000) on cars under 1000cc - thats the state of motor insurance over here!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> You should be clear for that then. I thought you meant something had happened just under 5 years ago. Everyone knocks young people on insurance though, while the geezers drive through QuickieMarts and mailboxes.


Yeah sorry about that, over here "no claims" is the amount of time accrued either since your insurance started or your last accident.

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

We're all thoughtless hijackers  ...course there's always the option to go back and delete your irrelevant stuff...it'd be cool if OPs had permission to go through and clean up their threads.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Feel free to kijack my thread...it makes me look more interesting!!

Got the insurance sorted today and it starts on Friday...as I have the MOT booked!!!!

I'm not expecting it to pass but I've fixed everything I know was wrong. I think it might need a wheel bearing...oh, and the speedo cable still needs doing.

Getting very excited about Friday!! I don't really mind if it passses or fails...I'm just looking forwarding to the first proper drive on a real road and everything!!

I need to take the controller out (which means taking the thottle out!) so that I can plug in the RS232 cable so that I can limit the battery amps to 300A before I go (not that I'm planning on driving like a hoon!) for piece of mind as I haven't got the ammeter and shunt in yet. I'm using RTD Explorer to change parameters in the controller.

I'll also take my infa red laser guided thermometer to look for high temps caused by high resistance crimp joints...I^2xR and all that gumph.

Rather excited!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I got the speedo cable back in this evening having removed some of the dash...I now know how to access the rev counter in order to mount the digital ammeter there one day.

I plugged the car in the mains as I noticed that my accessory battery was flatish...headlights were quite dim. I got a flashing red then green LED on the charger which means 'battery not connected'. Strange, it worked fine last time I plugged it in. The car hasn't been driven since the last full charge. I messed about at the house end of the cable and eventually it worked. Weird, will monitor the situation.

I'm trying out my Kwh meter for the first time tonight as I've left the car plugged in...seems to do what it's supposed to http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200813246646?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Ace

Good luck for the MOT on Friday. I've just contacted Pluginsure myself and sent them a summary and photos of the build. They want me to get an MOT before they will insure me (the mini is currently SORNed). I just wondered how you managed to get insurance first, is your car already registered as an EV?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> Hi Ace
> 
> Good luck for the MOT on Friday. I've just contacted Pluginsure myself and sent them a summary and photos of the build. They want me to get an MOT before they will insure me (the mini is currently SORNed). I just wondered how you managed to get insurance first, is your car already registered as an EV?


Hi Malcolm,

My policy states also that the car must have an MOT. I clarified with Brendon and he told me, in writing, that the insurance will cover me to drive to the MOT and will also cover me to drive back should it fail.

I suspect if you ask him he'll tell you the same.

How far off do you think you are getting her ready for the MOT?

I'm expecting a fail...it's an old-ish car that has been off the road for a year...I'm just hoping it's nothing too expensive to remedy!

PS. Yes, it is registered as an EV showing 'Electric' as the fuel type on the V5


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks. I'll check with Brendon. It would be good to avoid trailering the car if possible. I don't have much to do for the MOT now. I need to fully secure the battery pack and chargers, cover a few exposed terminals and fit the dash. The brakes and front end are fine, as I've overhauled or replaced everything. I haven't touched the rear yet, but it looks reasonable.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Wow...all the work you guys have to do is impressive...I'm glad TX doesn't know what an EV is. The hardest part of getting mine registered was explaining, reexplaining,  and reexplaining that you turn the key to turn it on and off.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Take a look at this site for the requirements.

http://www.motester.co.uk/


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Meh...at least 4 fails...I bet you're missing part of your exhaust system! Any EV specific requirements? Most of my 'safety' issues aren't at all covered.

I thought the mirror bit made no sense, but remembered you're backwards  Only at least 3 fails!


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

You were right, Pluginsure will cover me to and from the MOT station. Thanks, that's saved me some hassle


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> You were right, Pluginsure will cover me to and from the MOT station. Thanks, that's saved me some hassle


Good news, that'll save a load of hassle.

I took the controller out tonight, checked the RS232 lead was secure and re-ran the lead in a more permenant place such that it comes out in the cab just below the glove box. I can now monitor the car during the drive to the MOT station....and hopefully beyond! I intend on keeping spreadsheet logs of each trip I do to build an idea of what the controller is doing under various driving styles and journeys.

Also tonight I marked up the battery securing brackets (old speaker brackets but don't tell anyone) ready for drilling at work tomorrow for fitting tomorrow night ready for the first road trip the day after...I work better under pressure!!


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

I just got my insurance quote, same as you, £375 fully comprehensive, but with my wife as a named driver. Seems a bit steep to me for a Mini.

Did you have the following requirement on your quote?
_Home Conversions: An engineers report (letter from a garage on their headed paper advising the conversion has been done to a professional standard) and MOT certificate is required to be proved before cover can be provided. _


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> I just got my insurance quote, same as you, £375 fully comprehensive, but with my wife as a named driver. Seems a bit steep to me for a Mini.
> 
> Did you have the following requirement on your quote?
> _Home Conversions: An engineers report (letter from a garage on their headed paper advising the conversion has been done to a professional standard) and MOT certificate is required to be proved before cover can be provided. _


They asked the same from me, never sent them anything other than pictures and a description.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

skooler said:


> They asked the same from me, never sent them anything other than pictures and a description.


Same. Brendon told me that he'd sent over my specification/build description to the insurers and they were happy. I'm not intending to get an engineers report (unless I write it myself!).

Emptied the car of tools and rubbish tonight, the car is now about 30Kg lighter!! Bolts I got for the battery retention brackets (speaker brackets!) were too short, bugger, I'll have to go without for the MOT trip.

Also topped up the washer fluid bottle and then spent an hour unblocking the jets!! Living the dream!!

Solved my charging problem (sometimes nothing from the charger and then sometimes flashing red/green indicating battery not connected). I tracked it down to a dodgy fuse holder in the house end of the plug...simple mthings can screw you up!!

The car is now ready for the trip to the MOT station tomorrow. It's about 6 miles each way so it'll be a proper first road test!!

Fingers crossed!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> ...£375 fully comprehensive, but with my wife as a named driver. Seems a bit steep to me for a Mini.


It's hardly an every day mini!!! What do you think it will do performance wise?

Are you going to Alternative Energy Racing at Santa Pod next year? I'm planning on it. Not that I want to push the golf too much but we're just going for the giggle really. I'll drag my wife and kids along in the camper and I'll hire a van and trailer.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> The car is now ready for the trip to the MOT station tomorrow. It's about 6 miles each way so it'll be a proper first road test!!
> 
> Fingers crossed!!


Good luck!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

skooler said:


> Good luck!


Cheers Mike. I'm treating it as a road test and if I get a ticket, or even close to getting a ticket, then I'm be over the bleedin' moon!!


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> It's hardly an every day mini!!! What do you think it will do performance wise


She'll definitely out-drag a milk float  and with some gentle lithium love she could easily be a VW-eater 

Enjoy your drive tomorrow and with luck the MOT gods will smile with you.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

So how did it go?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Probably pushing it back.... (joking!)

When mine passed all I wanted to do was drive it for the rest of the day, but thats not really possible!

So, how did it go?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The trip there and back went brilliantly...mostly in 2nd and 3rd and into 4th once on the way back when i popped up to 60mph!!

There's quite a bit of road noise but that's mostly coming from the boot...as it has a bloody great hole cut in it which isn't yet sealed or insulated.

I was flying blind with no V or A info but everything seemed fine. I had the laptop connected and it said that I'd used 17Ah on the way there...I lost the data file when I unplugged the RS232 lead, bugger!

I charged the car when I got back and by my calcs the car did 276 Wh/mile average but I forgot to zero the odometer when I left (d'oh!) but it's about 5 miles there and I did 9 miles on the way home rolleyes.

Car needs a wheel bearing and a CV boot...and a number plate light bulb!! Not bad all in all and I'm driving the car back to the garage tomorrow and will leave it there for them to do the work. I'm somewhat concerned that they'll get a shock as they don't really understand the car...

I think I've attached a video of me leaving the house destined for the MOT station. You can hear the vacuum pump at the start of the video and then it cuts out by the time I leave the drive. If the video isn't there then I'll try and upload it seperately.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7hY_y_iK6I&feature=plcp


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Great news!

nice easy fixes too 

you'll be on the road tomorrow! DVLA Monday?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

skooler said:


> Great news!
> 
> nice easy fixes too
> 
> you'll be on the road tomorrow! DVLA Monday?


 
They'll do the work on Monday or Tuesday and then I'll be sorted. No trip to the DVLA needed....already 'electric' on the V5.

I must remember to buy a number plate light bulb tomorrow!

Bubbly to celebrate a momentous day is open!!!


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Great stuff! Did you get much of a reaction at the MOT station?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Perhaps this would be a good time to update the Garage entry for this car.

Or better yet, leave the existing one for posterity (as it was with lead acid) and create a Voltswagon Mk2 entry, for its lithium incarnation.

Looking good, and congratulations!


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Cool! Smooth and quiet. Your vacuum pump sounds pretty quiet too.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

MalcolmB said:


> Great stuff! Did you get much of a reaction at the MOT station?


I chose my favourite garage who are used to seeing things which aren't quite 'normal'. They were interested and wanted to know all about it. There's was no hesitation or problems suggested testing it.

They're good car people.

Just bought a new bulb for the number plate light...£2!!!! Ripped off!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> Perhaps this would be a good time to update the Garage entry for this car.
> 
> Or better yet, leave the existing one for posterity (as it was with lead acid) and create a Voltswagon Mk2 entry, for its lithium incarnation.
> 
> Looking good, and congratulations!


Unfortunately it still has (Trojan) lead in it...saving my pocket money for more exotic chemistry!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

mora said:


> Cool! Smooth and quiet. Your vacuum pump sounds pretty quiet too.


Thanks Mora. It's nice and quiet on the outside!! Quite noisey inside!!

I thought the vac pump was lequite noisey until I took it for a proper drive. I've now realised that it's a drop in the ocean compared to the road noise!!

I'm happy to have it (almost) road worthy but it remains an ongoing project to make sure it reliable. A bit of tidying to do with the wiring and strain relief for some of the cables. I also wish to ditch the 12V battery and replace it with a proper DC-DC converter. I don't like flying without a safety net!

I'm still in three minds as what to do about monitoring. Options are,

1) a 404 intelligent Ah meter
2) build the Open Revolt EV meter
3) buy a tablet and mount in car with RTD Explorer running on it. With a seperate volt meter and ammeter (which I hjave already)

I want V, A and Ah used.

Comments?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Congrats. on the excellent progress!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Congrats again 

On the dcdc stuff, keep the aux battery as it will act as a buffer and take all of the strain.

I got my Chennic off ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EV-DC-to-...12?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item19cb21e8b8


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

favguy said:


> Congrats. on the excellent progress!


!! 

Thanks Mr Fav. How are getting on? I've raced through this whole project and I guess I've spent about 100 hours in total. Having moved house and had a second child during this project you can imagine the time pressures I've had! I needed to get this on the road as soon as possible to ensure that it didn't fall by the wayside and became a mill stone sitting on the drive! I'm pleased to have it running and (holefully next week) road legal but the work doesn't stop here! I'll rest over the winter and then ramp up again once the evening light comes back.



skooler said:


> Congrats again
> 
> On the dcdc stuff, keep the aux battery as it will act as a buffer and take all of the strain.
> 
> ...


Cheers Mike. Thanks for the lead. Considering your suggestion of keeping the accessory battery as a buffer a thought crossed my mind. I wonder if I just got a US 12V battery charger and connected it to the pack whether that would take the 144Vdc nominal (150Vdc ish actual) an charge the accessory battery? With the battery acting as a buffer then I wouldn't need such a high power capability of the DC-DC.

Clearly if I draw more current than the charger can supply then the battery would slowly discharge but then as my current requirment drops then the charger would then top the battery back up.

I 'spose there's no great cost saving but I was just pondering while watching SCD!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> !!
> 
> Thanks Mr Fav. How are getting on? I've raced through this whole project and I guess I've spent about 100 hours in total. Having moved house and had a second child during this project you can imagine the time pressures I've had! I needed to get this on the road as soon as possible to ensure that it didn't fall by the wayside and became a mill stone sitting on the drive! I'm pleased to have it running and (holefully next week) road legal but the work doesn't stop here! I'll rest over the winter and then ramp up again once the evening light comes back.
> 
> ...


Kind of....

There is a thread on here about how to hack a pc power supply to work as a DCDC converter. Fairly simple but there will be issues with the enclosure, vibrations, output voltage etc.

In the end, I decided to buy the chennic as its only £100ish and seems to be quite reliable when used with an inductor and accessory battery.


----------



## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Ace,

Getting on quite well here, will be updating soon, should be ready to go to MOT by the end of next week,  Although, it will still be far from finished!

I'd second skoolers advice on the chennic with an inductor and a small 12v Aux. battery. Might also be worth fitting a diode to the input for belt and braces protection.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> I'm still in three minds as what to do about monitoring. Options are,
> 
> 1) a 404 intelligent Ah meter
> 2) build the Open Revolt EV meter
> 3) buy a tablet and mount in car with RTD Explorer running on it. With a seperate volt meter and ammeter (which I hjave already)


I'm a big fan of the JLD404. I only have two in the car, but 4 would be nice  I feel naked driving without it.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I feel quite proud of myslef today...I've figured out how to do multi-wotsit quoting!!

Here goes!!



favguy said:


> Hi Ace,
> 
> Getting on quite well here, will be updating soon, should be ready to go to MOT by the end of next week,  Although, it will still be far from finished!
> 
> ...


Roger that. I think I'll save up for a DC-DC and keep the battery and add the inductor and diode as advised.



Ziggythewiz said:


> I'm a big fan of the JLD404. I only have two in the car, but 4 would be nice  I feel naked driving without it.


They're reasonably priced aren't they? And one would offer a quick and easy indication of the Ah used. I can get that from RTD Explorer but it would mean running a laptop or tablet which is extra faff I don't really need.

Cold out there today. I replaced the number plate light buld and changed all the screws for new shiny ones.

Off to drive the car back to the garage shortly!! I hope it does as well as last time. Pack fully charged (I double checked that!) and accessory battery too.

I went round and checked all of the connections under the bonnet and found a loose nut on the pre-charge contactor!! Glad I checked. I'll be doing the same in the boot once I have a little more time...I have to remove the charger and false floor to get access.

Changing gear is not easy without the clutch but it'll do me fine until I can figure out how to extend the clutch cable. The normal route is now blocked by batteries. Clutchless will be fine for my commute but I'll need the clutch for Santa Pod if I'm to stand a chance of getting a good time on the 1/4 mile!!

I'm thinking of taking the clutch cable to a pivoted arm and then connecting another cable from the pivoting arm to the clutch lever thus extending the original cable.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> They're reasonably priced aren't they? And one would offer a quick and easy indication of the Ah used. I can get that from RTD Explorer but it would mean running a laptop or tablet which is extra faff I don't really need.


Yup, $69 when I got mine, now down to $65...plus $10-15 for a shunt and $10 for shipping.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Yup, $69 when I got mine, now down to $65...plus $10-15 for a shunt and $10 for shipping.


Bargain...shipping and import tax on top for us Limeys!!

A successful run to the garage today...even stopped at the pub for lunch! Slow roasted pork with crackling to die for!

I have some vibration from the motor while in second at about 30mph which is enough to make me change up to third. I will at some point have to remove everything from under the bonnet and remove the motor to try and figure out what it is. That's not going to happen soon so I'll get miles under my belt and monitor the situation.

Priority list is: set up the controller properly, make sealing end caps for the controller, seal the rear battery tray and try to reduce the road noise coming from back there. Also I'd like to install the ammeter and shut even if its a temp measure until I get a 404.

Log: 21 successful miles!!!  I didn't think I'd actually get this far...especially when I decided to build the Open Revolt controller...the controller is doing really well so far and has lots of bang for the buck, as they say. I love being able to connect the laptop to it to see what is going on in it's brain.

More video once I get it back from the garage when I'll, hopefully, be road legal!!

2012 is going to be a year when quite a few EV conversions hit the road here in the UK!!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

What are you doing for a fuel guage?

I use the ZEVA fuel gauge driver+ in my RX8, works a charm.

I mention it because it has an output to control the original rev counter so that it works as an ammeter. Might be a worthwhile investment? mine cost about £150 delivered

I only use it to control the fuel guage as my dash is canbus controlled and even if it was analogue I dont know how it would count pulses per revolution with it being a rotary .


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm still in three minds as to what to use but I'll have a look at the Zeva, cheers.

All I really want is controller volts, battery amps and Ah used. I think I'll go for a 404 intelligent Ah as a starting point and then add something as the need arises.

Oh, I forgot to say...I've got an MOT certificate!!!!!

I picked the car up today and will get the tax disc tomorrow...well, my better half will!!!

Smiling, smiling, smiling...EV grin growing with every drive!!

A lot of the road noise was the rear wheel bearing which is much better now. I still have a vibration from the drive train somewhere (prob flywheel area ish) but that's a job for the spring.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Congrats! ..


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Congratiolations on your conversion, one more electric VW here in the UK!

I have designed an adapter plate on CAD for my conversion, so if everithing is alright when I got it in 2 weeks I can let you know. Might solve your vibration issues. 

I was wondering, have you used the clutch or is that on the motor shaft just a coupler?

You can take a look at my conversion here. 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...ion-vw-polo-ac-industrial-motor-78701p11.html

Let us know how is it going.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Congrats! ..


Thanks Zig. I did 15.1 miles today and a lot of the road noise has gone now that the rough wheel bearing has been sorted. Love driving it and can't wait to drive to work again tomorrow!! I just drove in 3rd on the way there today as it saves me a gear change and the reduced acceleration is quit enice at that time of the morning while I'm still waking up!

I'm gunna get me a 404 AH meter, I was loooking earlier and that's exactly what I need/want.



cts_casemod said:


> Congratiolations on your conversion, one more electric VW here in the UK!
> 
> I have designed an adapter plate on CAD for my conversion, so if everithing is alright when I got it in 2 weeks I can let you know. Might solve your vibration issues.
> 
> ...


Hi CTS, the car still has the clutch fitted but I don't hva ethe cable fitted as there are now some rather batteries in the way of where it would have originally run. I need to extend the cable somehow, I have a few ideas but for the mean time I'll drive without the use of it.

The car drives very well and all is well so far (touch wood).

I'm watching your build with interest to see how that motor works out for you. I'll keep an eye on your thread. Good luck and if I can of assistance then let me know.  EV grin!!!


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Congratulations. Now hard driving all day long.

My golf had serious vibration issues at first. Most of it was gone when flywheel went on diet and got somewhat balanced at the same time. Later I re-designed motor shaft coupler to get better centering and now almost all the vibration is gone. I have a picture of that coupler design in my picasaweb album (link).


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> Thanks Zig. I did 15.1 miles today and a lot of the road noise has gone now that the rough wheel bearing has been sorted. Love driving it and can't wait to drive to work again tomorrow!! I just drove in 3rd on the way there today as it saves me a gear change and the reduced acceleration is quit enice at that time of the morning while I'm still waking up!
> 
> I'm gunna get me a 404 AH meter, I was loooking earlier and that's exactly what I need/want.
> 
> ...


 
Very nice. 
I will go the lithium route. I have limited options to charge the batteries on car, so its a must to make them "removable".

Looking at your design I wonder if I might be able to put the generator on the engine compartment, along with one of the battery packs. How tall are the batteries and how far are they from touching the bonnet?

My clutch adapter is very similar to yours:








Regards


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

cts_casemod said:


> Very nice.
> I will go the lithium route. I have limited options to charge the batteries on car, so its a must to make them "removable".
> 
> Looking at your design I wonder if I might be able to put the generator on the engine compartment, along with one of the battery packs. How tall are the batteries and how far are they from touching the bonnet?
> ...


You're going to remove the whole pack every time you want to charge them? What size pack are you planning? Have you got a forklift?

I'm not sure what you mean by putting your 'generator' on the 'engine compartment'? I am using Trojan T-1275s and the terminals are about 1/2'' underneath the inside of the bonnet, they just fit and are securely held down to stop bouncing.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> You're going to remove the whole pack every time you want to charge them? What size pack are you planning? Have you got a forklift?
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by putting your 'generator' on the 'engine compartment'? I am using Trojan T-1275s and the terminals are about 1/2'' underneath the inside of the bonnet, they just fit and are securely held down to stop bouncing.


I will either charge in the charging stations (Have a few near me) or yes I will remove the pack, not everyone can have a driveway or garage 

My lithium pack total weight will be 60Kg for a 30 mile range. 
Each part will be 15Kg, so I can just take one at a time every day or two if I am unable to charge them. Even If I upgrade, this part of the pack will always be removable.
When you are used to take a bike upstairs without much space, you realise the batteries are lighter and much easier as they are smaller!

Remember my car will be less than 900Kg and I have Regen.

The generator will be another project, but I am sure I can sqeeze something like a 5HP honda in there.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I've been monitoring the energy usage of the car on my trips to work and around town. My measurements of how many wh/mile the car did on the first few runs,

276.0
242.0
287.4
268.2
292.0

I'm very pleased with this. Variation due to accuracy of measurements, sometimes head lights used, etc.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> I've been monitoring the energy usage of the car on my trips to work and around town. My measurements of how many wh/mile the car did on the first few runs,
> 
> 276.0
> 242.0
> ...


They look like good figures, 280Wpm average with 400Kg of lead on board  How much does you golf weight in Total?

How exactly did you got this figures? Do you have an amp counter on your pack or did you measure the power from the socket to the charger?

Are you using any kind of heating in the mornings?

Regards


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah, I was pleaseed with those figures.

The previous owner came over last night and lots of good ideas and info. Like don't allow the under load voltage of the pack drop below 120V (10V per battery equiv.) and don't let the off load voltage of the pack drop below 144V (12V per battery equiv.).

I've temporarily cured my voltmeter problem with a professional install of a truely isolated volt meter, see below!! It works it does!!

I think the car weighs about 150-200 Kg over stock but I don't know what it weighs in at or what the original weight was. I guess I could go to a public weighbridge?

No heating at present but my commute is only fifteen mins so I'm not overly concerned, at the moment!

To get the figures I noted miles covered and then measured the Kwh required to charge by using a cheap (£6.99) plug in energy meter, simple.



cts_casemod said:


> They look like good figures, 280Wpm average with 400Kg of lead on board  How much does you golf weight in Total?
> 
> How exactly did you got this figures? Do you have an amp counter on your pack or did you measure the power from the socket to the charger?
> 
> ...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I was going to try to liven the car up by playing with the settings in the Open Revolt controller but RTD Explorer kept crashing. Even after re-install it still wouldn't run so today's 18 miles were done on default settings.


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## mk1man2000 (Oct 18, 2012)

Congratulations Adam, well done I'm very please to see your Ex SantaPod wheels is back on the road, have been keeping a close eye on your rebuild of David's Ex Golf, do send him my thanks and regards if you do see him again before he returns back to Germany, I do know your car quite well, infact it was your Golf and the CityStormer that got me first excited and so started on my first own EV conversion also a Mk2 Golf, (haven't finished it yet) i've also followed your mate Skooler too, and have already teamed up with cts_casemod and a few other local London based EV converters and i'm trying to hopefully get a good team/group together to help each other and to be able to build/find and source EV parts with a breeze and to pass on that information to help as many people in the UK and EV world as possible, and as you know it's not like popping over to your local Ikea and buying everything you'll need under one roof, so maybe one day that will be possible.

And sorry to mess your tread up, I am new to this site and not one for blogging on forums but really love reading them all, and i'm not doing to bad now and on my 3rd post, cheers top man.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> Yeah, I was pleaseed with those figures.
> 
> The previous owner came over last night and lots of good ideas and info. Like don't allow the under load voltage of the pack drop below 120V (10V per battery equiv.) and don't let the off load voltage of the pack drop below 144V (12V per battery equiv.).
> 
> ...


 
No Heating!? 

You are brave!
I drive a modified diesel that takes about 3 miles to START to warn up. I converted to Direct Injection and the thing starts on the button, so never got to install the electric acessory heating and glow plugs.
Fuel economy is great without the extra crap, but I have to drive with the windows open untill the engine warms up. 

What about power steering, does your golf have a manual rack?

We had a scale in the MOT garage where I used to work before starting my Degree. If you ask, chances are they can tell you. They use in some cars to calculate the brake efficiency, althought in newer cars they just put the reg and voila  (It gives you a reading by axle, so you can also tell if the weight distribuition is ok)
Be carefull about the energy meter readings. If your charger doesnt have an active PFC, reactive power is not correctly measured and may fool the readings. They seem good for "on car use" but because charger and batteries have a maximun efficiency of 90 and 80%; it would give about 180-200 real W/pm, which seems to good to be true.

By the way, just found this little toy,

http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=INS-ZEVA-FGD11

I will use an amp meter counter, but this thing might come in handy if someone else drives your car as they are most likely not familiar with the Amp readings


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## EV_dub (Aug 30, 2010)

Hey Adam,

Thanks again for the test drive!!!

Great to be in the Golf again, although probably my first time in the passenger seat 

From memory it weighed in at 1400kg with 156volt setup. Considering you are using the same batteries at 144v, I would estimate around 1360kg.

I Think you have the best layout solution for all of that lead!!

If you pull the motor off the gearbox re-centre the clutch friction plate to the pressure plate to eliminate vibration. Also check the hub has not slipped forward on the shaft. The grip bolt, which should stop this sliding should be and wrenched tight and lock-tightened
And if you decide to stick without using the clutch, you can add a centre bolt to the drive hub which would secure to the centre of the motor drive shaft and eliminate any slipping. Also remove the clutch rod as this is not required

If you choose to keep the use of the clutch this centre bolt cannot be added as clearance for the clutch release plate is needed.

On my original setup at 120v I ran without the use of the clutch. I never encountered any vibration issues. The only disadvantage was shifting down to second gear could only be achieved at a stop. However you can shift between 3rd and 4th no problem. 2nd was only really needed to reduce current draw for a fast pull away!!

I found with the Zappi controller tackling hills at 30-40mph was actually more efficient to to the batteries in 3rd than in 2nd gear. 
Above 55mph on the flat 4th gear seemed more efficient 

Could you setup a economy/boost switch for your controller? 

I found an old video which shows a little more than of the one on you tube.

Hopefully the link will work!!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks and please don't apologise for writing here...go for your live!

I'm defo up for joining in any group activity which may help the supply of parts into the UK. EVs are here and their popularity will only grow. I just hope the EU directive doesn't come to fruition!!

I'm not far from London, down on the south coast.

Have you got a build thread on here? I'd be very interested in following what your doing with you Mk2.

See you at Santa Pod in May?



mk1man2000 said:


> Congratulations Adam, well done I'm very please to see your Ex SantaPod wheels is back on the road, have been keeping a close eye on your rebuild of David's Ex Golf, do send him my thanks and regards if you do see him again before he returns back to Germany, I do know your car quite well, infact it was your Golf and the CityStormer that got me first excited and so started on my first own EV conversion also a Mk2 Golf, (haven't finished it yet) i've also followed your mate Skooler too, and have already teamed up with cts_casemod and a few other local London based EV converters and i'm trying to hopefully get a good team/group together to help each other and to be able to build/find and source EV parts with a breeze and to pass on that information to help as many people in the UK and EV world as possible, and as you know it's not like popping over to your local Ikea and buying everything you'll need under one roof, so maybe one day that will be possible.
> 
> And sorry to mess your tread up, I am new to this site and not one for blogging on forums but really love reading them all, and i'm not doing to bad now and on my 3rd post, cheers top man.





cts_casemod said:


> No Heating!?
> 
> You are brave!
> I drive a modified diesel that takes about 3 miles to START to warn up. I converted to Direct Injection and the thing starts on the button, so never got to install the electric acessory heating and glow plugs.
> ...





EV_dub said:


> Hey Adam,
> 
> Thanks again for the test drive!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Brave? Nah!! I used to sail full time in all weathers so jumping in a car for 15 mins with no heating doesn't worry me! Also, it's warmer than my bike!!

The Golf has a manual steering rack, yeah.

I like the look of the Zeva gauge...maybe when the kids have grown a bit and I have more time!!

I'm measuring power used with a Kwh meter in the house so am measuring current used by the car during charging so the reactive issue shouldn't be a problem...I don't think.

I just took some videos of the car and am trying to get them loaded onto Youtube but I'm struggling...hopefully they'll appear by the end of the day.





cts_casemod said:


> No Heating!?
> 
> You are brave!
> I drive a modified diesel that takes about 3 miles to START to warn up. I converted to Direct Injection and the thing starts on the button, so never got to install the electric acessory heating and glow plugs.
> ...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Dave,

Thanks for spending the time to drop by. You're always welcome and thanks for all of the advice.

I'm already following your advice re battery voltages under load and off load voltage...I need those lead to serve me for many years so anything I can do to preserve them then I'll do it...although I would quite like to be able to wheel spin like in your video...just for kicks, you know!

I tried playing with the open revolt today but didn't notice any difference...I'll persevere...

The video is great and gives me ideas for improvements to my setup.

All the flywheel/clutch advice gratefully received and I'll see about getting the motor and transmission out to align everything. I think I will go clutchless in the long run..3rd gear is fine for my needs.

Cheers and have a good trip back.

Drop by next time your over this way and you can have a drive this time. After you left I realised that I should have offered.



EV_dub said:


> Hey Adam,
> 
> Thanks again for the test drive!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## EV_dub (Aug 30, 2010)

Ha, no worries I wasn't expecting to drive it...

If you do get round to pulling the motor off. Stand the motor upright on blocks with the gearbox above and pull the gearbox up and out. When you come to reassemble there is a locating bush set-in the gearbox which locates in a hole on the adaptor plate to keep it aligned correct.

Happy EV-ing!!!

Dave


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Video of a trip around the block

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rny03SzT-hs&feature=plcp


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

EV_dub said:


> Ha, no worries I wasn't expecting to drive it...
> 
> If you do get round to pulling the motor off. Stand the motor upright on blocks with the gearbox above and pull the gearbox up and out. When you come to reassemble there is a locating bush set-in the gearbox which locates in a hole on the adaptor plate to keep it aligned correct.
> 
> ...


There are actually two, otherwise the thing would move. 
One is located just under the driveshaft, the other one is on the low bolt of the starter motor.


Start by taking the pins from an ICE or order them from VW (Have yet to find the P/N but if someone knows let us know). 
The hole on the gearbox is machined larger to acomodate for this pin. You will notice that the tread may not be centered (This was the factory adjustment) and thats why you wont be able to do it with the bolts only.

Weld both pins on your adapter plate to make sure they dont move, just like they would be on an ICE (You can press them if your adapter is thick enough)

After that your adapter is now lined up and fixed it should be fairly easy to measure the center of the gearbox shaft. On the 020 you just need to push the clutch rod out. Attach a cord to it with a pencil on the other end to draw a perfect circle that you can use to make the holes for your motor.

If you are going clutch-less dont just build a solid adapter. Use something sililar to a clutch disk to have some play available in the center spline to accomodate for any vibrations. This will make life easier to the GB/Motor bearings.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for the 'heads up'.

I love the car...love it!!



EV_dub said:


> Ha, no worries I wasn't expecting to drive it...
> 
> If you do get round to pulling the motor off. Stand the motor upright on blocks with the gearbox above and pull the gearbox up and out. When you come to reassemble there is a locating bush set-in the gearbox which locates in a hole on the adaptor plate to keep it aligned correct.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

"nd video of outside and under the bonnet coming...You Tube being slow...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Video tour of the car...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UA4pjypatk&feature=plcp

Cheers,

Adam


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Liking it... bring on santa pod!


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Just a note. You might want to do your phone video in landscape view rather than in upright view. Would look much better. 

Keep the videos coming.


----------



## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Adam
Thanks for the video. That RTD explorer looks really useful. Did you have any problems building the controller? I'm handy with a soldering iron but otherwise electronically challenged. I'm tempted to have a go at building the 1000A version, but would have to wait until a complete kit becomes available.


----------



## mk1man2000 (Oct 18, 2012)

Hello there again Ace,

Haven't got a build thread here on this site as yet, it's not something i've done before and i'm only just getting the hang of using it, i'm also a bit late in starting a tread as i'm at the point now of joining/fixing up the adaptor plate, I find it a lot more simplified to do videos instead to get my build out there, finally able to see some of your videos too, you should try and make as many of them as possible for people like me, they are very interesting to watch, and if you were local to me in London i'd love to build and weld you up a lovely metal rack frame to hold your batteries in place, also CTS did mention about me to you a while back on your tread, and yes Adam will defo see you all there at SantaPod, and hopefully with my Golf too.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Agh yeah, but you should get some info on a build thread here...I wanna see!! Or stick a link to your vids on my thread, I don't mind in the slightest.

More videos when I have some more interesting stuff to show or data to share.

The car did 21 secs when Dave took the car to the strip...I don't think I'll beat that unless I can figure out how to tweak the controller up a little.

Cheers and it's good to get to know some more UK enthusiasts...



mk1man2000 said:


> Hello there again Ace,
> 
> Haven't got a build thread here on this site as yet, it's not something i've done before and i'm only just getting the hang of using it, i'm also a bit late in starting a tread as i'm at the point now of joining/fixing up the adaptor plate, I find it a lot more simplified to do videos instead to get my build out there, finally able to see some of your videos too, you should try and make as many of them as possible for people like me, they are very interesting to watch, and if you were local to me in London i'd love to build and weld you up a lovely metal rack frame to hold your batteries in place, also CTS did mention about me to you a while back on your tread, and yes Adam will defo see you all there at SantaPod, and hopefully with my Golf too.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I just wrote a longer reply but it appears to have gone into the ether!!

I think you'd be fine with the controller build. Instructions are very good and Paul is there with advice as required. If you do one make sure you have a 250w iron for the power board, you'll need it!

Go for it!


MalcolmB said:


> Hi Adam
> Thanks for the video. That RTD explorer looks really useful. Did you have any problems building the controller? I'm handy with a soldering iron but otherwise electronically challenged. I'm tempted to have a go at building the 1000A version, but would have to wait until a complete kit becomes available.


----------



## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I'll second that, it's a really nice kit, just make sure you do get yourself a massive soldering iron for the power board!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I took some family members on a number of seperate test drives today to show off the car. I fully charged the car yesterday and it was done by 6pm so I turned off the charger at the house and left the lead plugged in.

Just before I switched the car on to move it from the drive I noticed that there was a number of volts showing at the controller...from memory I think it was 6V (maybe just inaccuracy in cheap multimeter on HV setting? Maybe not, will investigate)

After about 10 miles I noticed that the acceleration was reduced and that the pack voltage was agging badly down to 120V (from normal fully charged off load voltage of 150V) with very little throttle. We limped back home but sometimes the acceleration felt fine.

I've put the car on charge and it is taking a while to charge and my Kwh meter is showing 4 Kwh so far and it is still charging, but into the >80% phase of the charge.

I haven't investigated anything yet. I'll do a test run once the car has been fully charged and hope it was just that the batteries were flatish. If the problem persists then I'll check individual battery voltages and voltage at the controller. 

I'm concerned that there might be a drain on the pack. Or perhaps I just shouldn't leave the lead attached when not charging?

Any thoughts or comments would be welcomed.

I'm just uploading some short videos that one of my brothers took and I'll drop a link in once they're done.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Many lead chargers will back drain the battery when not plugged in, but it's usually very small. I have a battery maintainer that ironically does this, and my regular 12/6V charger/starter will do it in some modes.

To know how much, or if there's any other vampire loads you'd have to have a decent digital ammeter connected.

Also, how's your precharge wired in? Is it always on or switched? I forget and leave mine on sometimes, which will drain some, and just as frequently I forget my keys, and leave the car 'running'.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Zig,

Yeah, I might buy a decent clamp ammeter such that I can interogate the car a little more.

My pre-charge is on a dedicated EV200 sitting in series with the contacts on the main EV200 contactor.

Maybe the car discharged back into the grid!! I'll have to contact my energy supplier and get a refund!!

I might do a range check tomorrow...will give me an excuse to go for (hopefully) an hours drive...might even take a cigar with me!!



Ziggythewiz said:


> Many lead chargers will back drain the battery when not plugged in, but it's usually very small. I have a battery maintainer that ironically does this, and my regular 12/6V charger/starter will do it in some modes.
> 
> To know how much, or if there's any other vampire loads you'd have to have a decent digital ammeter connected.
> 
> Also, how's your precharge wired in? Is it always on or switched? I forget and leave mine on sometimes, which will drain some, and just as frequently I forget my keys, and leave the car 'running'.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

What is the charging voltage like? 

Maybe the charger is set up for a lower standby voltage as this will help with the battery life, giving the idea that is changing to the absortion phase.

4KW seems nothing for a pack of that size. Even if you had only used 50% of the capacity you should see 10KW as a minimun.

I would wire an ampmeter in series with your pack. A regular multimeter is good for 10Amp so you should be able to at least check the current from the charger and the time if was charging to have a more precise figure or at least check for any leak currents.

What do you use to power your 12V Acessories?


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The charger has finished (flashing green) and my Kwh meter shows that 3.6 Kwh was used to charge the pack. I'll leave it connected this time.

I think the charger is set to 125Ah and my pack is 150Ah...will this make a difference? I shouldn't think so as the charger runs on voltage and will change phase or cut off dependent on voltage?

My 12V stuff runs from a seperate 12V battery which is charged by a dedicated 12V charger so this 'should' be isolated...I say 'should'...

I'll leave it plugged in tonight and do a range check run tomorrow...

...I'll also connect RTD Explorer via the laptop to monitor things.

I was just wondering if the controller could be restricting thing due to an over heat or something similar but that wouldn't explain the dramatic voltage sag under moderate driving.

Everything says that the pack was empty but it only took 3.6 Kwh to recharge which shows that the pack wasn't flat...weird.



cts_casemod said:


> What is the charging voltage like?
> 
> Maybe the charger is set up for a lower standby voltage as this will help with the battery life, giving the idea that is changing to the absortion phase.
> 
> ...


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> The charger has finished (flashing green) and my Kwh meter shows that 3.6 Kwh was used to charge the pack. I'll leave it connected this time.
> 
> I think the charger is set to 125Ah and my pack is 150Ah...will this make a difference? I shouldn't think so as the charger runs on voltage and will change phase or cut off dependent on voltage?
> 
> ...


You will need t check that battery pack by hand.

I have no idea what that 125Ah setting does, it could terminate the charge once it reaches that Amp, but even if you only charge 125A *125Ah*144V=18KW* so no way you can have only 3 or 4 KW going into your pack from fully discharged

Conect the charger and measure all of the cells, if one happens to be faulty the current may be reduced, causing the charger to go into float mode and not charging the remaining ones.

A Good idea is to have wires going from each battery into a switch so that you could see the individual battery voltages. This is usefull because if a battery is faulty you can spot that under load as the voltage will drop badly. Think of it like a BMS on a lithium.

Another issue may be some poorly crimped conector. In my life as a mechanic I fixed quite some older ford transits in which the conector for the starter would heat excessively causing a drop of 2 or 3V. This was enought to slow the starter so the van would not start.


----------



## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Adam,
It's worth keeping in mind that lead acid takes a massive hit as temperatures drop. Were the batteries colder than usual when you set off?


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

cts_casemod said:


> 4KW seems nothing for a pack of that size. Even if you had only used 50% of the capacity you should see 10KW as a minimun.


Pack size is irrelevant. The real question is how far did he go? I used to always charge with 3.6kWh after a 14 mile commute.



MalcolmB said:


> Hi Adam,
> It's worth keeping in mind that lead acid takes a massive hit as temperatures drop. Were the batteries colder than usual when you set off?


Quite likely. Even fully charged cold lead sags heavy (30% instead of my usual 15%) and there's still lots of juice in there, it just takes more coaxing to warm them up enough to move.


----------



## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

cts_casemod said:


> I have no idea what that 125Ah setting does,


It seems to only determine the charge cut-off point; depending on the "charge curve" or algorithm, it may terminate at 0.05C for example; 0.05C times what you tell it the capacity is. So if your pack is a little larger than you tell it, it will cut off a little late (at 0.05 * 125 = 6.25 A instead of at 0.05 * 150 = 7.5 A); no great harm done. You'll just be charging your pack a little longer, to a higher SOC, is all.

They only have a smallish range of pack capacities to choose from, you are meant to choose the closest. 125 Ah is very possibly the closest to 150 Ah that they have anyway (as standard, at least; I suppose any capacity can be programmed as a special).

Edit: there is a small chance that when older, your pack may never get to 6.25 A though it does go under 7.5 A. If so, you might have to manually terminate, or use a timer, or hook up a circuit that switches the charger off when the charge current drops to a suitably low value.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and input. You've mentioned things which I hadn't considered and given me more food for thought.

It was chilly yesterday but I guess it was about 8C outside air temp ish.

I did about 10 miles during the test drive yesterday when things were going badly. I'm just going to take the car out now, I've had it on charge since yestedray afternoon.

I noted that the household Kwh meter which I use shows that the car is slowly using power (when the charger said 'full' the Kwh meter read 3.7 Kwh at 8pm last night, now it reads 4kWh). I assumed previously that this was down to the 12V charger I have on the accessory battery...perhaps not?

I'll do a full run now and see how many I get and see if I see that early sag on the pack voltage. Even if the pack was empty why then would it only take 4 Kwh (ish) to recharge? Odd.

I'll also try and check all of the individual battery voltages to see if one has caught a cold in all of this cold weather! It's a pain getting to the rear pack as it's under a false floor in the boot...must change the way I bolt that false floor down to make it easier.

Anyway, I'm off for a drive and the wife has gone to the super market so I'm going to tear up the neighbourhood...quietly!! 



MalcolmB said:


> Hi Adam,
> It's worth keeping in mind that lead acid takes a massive hit as temperatures drop. Were the batteries colder than usual when you set off?





Ziggythewiz said:


> Pack size is irrelevant. The real question is how far did he go? I used to always charge with 3.6kWh after a 14 mile commute.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite likely. Even fully charged cold lead sags heavy (30% instead of my usual 15%) and there's still lots of juice in there, it just takes more coaxing to warm them up enough to move.





Coulomb said:


> It seems to only determine the charge cut-off point; depending on the "charge curve" or algorithm, it may terminate at 0.05C for example; 0.05C times what you tell it the capacity is. So if your pack is a little larger than you tell it, it will cut off a little late (at 0.05 * 125 = 6.25 A instead of at 0.05 * 150 = 7.5 A); no great harm done. You'll just be charging your pack a little longer, to a higher SOC, is all.
> 
> They only have a smallish range of pack capacities to choose from, you are meant to choose the closest. 125 Ah is very possibly the closest to 150 Ah that they have anyway (as standard, at least; I suppose any capacity can be programmed as a special).
> 
> Edit: there is a small chance that when older, your pack may never get to 6.25 A though it does go under 7.5 A. If so, you might have to manually terminate, or use a timer, or hook up a circuit that switches the charger off when the charge current drops to a suitably low value.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

There is no real effect on batteries untill you get temperatures below 0C unless they are very old. Most car batteries fail on winter because the elctrolite is mostly water due to low capacity and when it gets frozen damages or creates a short circuit on the plates.

4KW is 16% of your total capacity, not really something cold temperatures would do, and the temperatures we are having at the moment are not cause for that. I had a lead scooter drawing the batteries at 3C and I would do 10 Miles every day, even with -5. 
The acelleration started to suffer a bit below 2C

When the charger goes into float mode its not supose to stop charging it just lowers the voltage from 14.4 to 13.8V per cell. Some cheaper ones used in car batteries do stop, but I dont believe an EV Charger would.

Again dont forget you are not putting 4KW into your battery. Considering 3.5KW at full load efficiency of 92% that would give you 3.22KW and this can reduce to as little as 50% on tricle charge state, giving you maybe 3.5KW, so you should not relly 100% on this.

Again, considering that the batteries have a charging efficiency of 80% you have 2.8KW into your batteries readdy to be used by the car.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> I noted that the household Kwh meter which I use shows that the car is slowly using power (when the charger said 'full' the Kwh meter read 3.7 Kwh at 8pm last night, now it reads 4kWh). I assumed previously that this was down to the 12V charger I have on the accessory battery...perhaps not?


My charger pulls ~25W when 'off'. Not much, but overnight that's 1/4 kWh. If it's floating it pulls ~40W, so nearly 1/2 kWh overnight, but at least it's doing something.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks guys, all good info. I think my charger does some similar values to yours Zig.

So, I took the car on a drive which ended up being a full range check...my very first full range check.

I started the trip with an off load pack voltage of 150V, zeroed the odometer and off I went...not knowing whether I'd need a tow home again or not!

The car fine straight oiff the bat. Accelerating fine and not sagging below 120V under normal driving. Off I went towards Lymington and off into The New Forest. Passed the ladies of Brockenhurst, on horse back of course! Passed the highland cattle, ponies and pigs...none of them giving me much attention as I wizzed by.

Around 13 miles I noticed that the voltage was sagging a little more and I was going under my minimum of 120V at times but I wanted to give the car a full test this time so I drove it 'normally'. But the car was still pulling nicely up hill and nipping around nicely.

Off passed the gentlemen of Burley swinging their woods and irons at the ponies on the links course...I laughed at their golf buggies...from within mine!! 

At 21 miles I started to loose power like I did yesterday. It coincided with the end of a long steep uphill section (coincidence? Dunno.) So I thought that I better nurse her home as I was still 6 miles from home! But the power came back and even took me up to 50mph on the A-road as I wizzed towards home.

Anyway by the time I got back (after several trips around my test circuit) the odometer read 35.0 miles and the off load pack voltage was 142.0V, after about a minute rest. I have been told that the pack is 'empty' when the pack voltage is 141.6V which equates to 11.8V of each of the 12 batteries.

So, all in all I am very happy to have got 35 miles range...and have the car still driving and accelerating well...and with an air temp of about 6-8°C.

I had RTD Explorer running the entire time and I think I saved the CSV data from it...I'll 'ave a look now.

I'll spare you the details of the saga of the car tripping the house circuits when I plugged it in when I got home!! Seriously worried that I would have to sleep with the pack tonight to keep the flat pack warm in this cold-ish weather!! Traced it to a short in the cable of all things!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

No data from RTD...I don't understand why it doesn't save the data...oh well, I would have liked the Ah used though.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> No data from RTD...I don't understand why it doesn't save the data...oh well, I would have liked the Ah used though.


So you have the range, but the performance just goes from time to time... Are you sure there is nothing overheating that may be causing this?

Now is also a good time to post some readings on the energy used to charge your pack.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Are your batts really only 12.5V fully charged (150 tot)? On mine full is ~13.2 and 12.5 is over half discharged. Obviously completely different type, but 12.5 still seems low.

I always have lots of fun tripping the power strip/house circuit whenever I do something 'different' like charging from a lower voltage while using a good extension cord. Never had a short though (that I'm aware of )


----------



## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

35 miles from lead acid is pretty impressive, especially in colder weather. Well done.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm jealous (for the time being )


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

cts_casemod said:


> So you have the range, but the performance just goes from time to time... Are you sure there is nothing overheating that may be causing this?
> 
> Now is also a good time to post some readings on the energy used to charge your pack.


I was thinking something similar today on my way to work. Perhaps the controller is l;imiting current due to a high temp? If RTD Explorer had not lost the data I might have been able to see...I'll monitor and see if it happens again.

I failed to note the reading off the Kwh meter this morning eek...it was early and I was asleep!! Bugger!!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Are your batts really only 12.5V fully charged (150 tot)? On mine full is ~13.2 and 12.5 is over half discharged. Obviously completely different type, but 12.5 still seems low.
> 
> I always have lots of fun tripping the power strip/house circuit whenever I do something 'different' like charging from a lower voltage while using a good extension cord. Never had a short though (that I'm aware of )


Yeah, I've not realised that before. I'll check individual battery voltages and report back. I would have thought that they would be a little higher.



MalcolmB said:


> 35 miles from lead acid is pretty impressive, especially in colder weather. Well done.


I was very pleased to get 35 miles. I'm also lead (no pun intended!) to believe that range will increase over the firts few months as the magic dust in batteries get shaken up and awoken...or something like that! 



skooler said:


> I'm jealous (for the time being )


Well Mike, I'm going to be very jealous once you get those 200Ah bad boys!!


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> I was thinking something similar today on my way to work. Perhaps the controller is limiting current due to a high temp? If RTD Explorer had not lost the data I might have been able to see...I'll monitor and see if it happens again.


Maybe the fact you dont have any logs could mean that the thing had a reset because of temperature or low voltage conditions? Also, some newer controllers do have a function to ease the throttle if a low voltage condition is present so that the pack voltage is kept in a safe band, so again this could be related with what you are experiencing




Ace_bridger said:


> I failed to note the reading off the Kwh meter this morning eek...it was early and I was asleep!! Bugger!!


Now I understand the no heating issue on the golf. You needed the cold breeze in the morning to wake up


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I've just checked the individual voltages of the six batteries under the bonnet and five measure 13.18v and onemeasured 13.10v. The rear pack is currently hard to access. Assuming they are also around the same then I figure I'm 8 volts down somewhere, possibly.

I am using a cheapish multimeter on the hv range so perhaps it's meter inaccuracy? I'm getting the range so I doubt that there's a major problem here. Weird? Maybe or maybe not?


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Too strange your multimeter readings happen with an associated lack of power. 

What you need to do is measure the batteries under load. Get some heaters attached to the pack and measure again.

Does your multimeter have an isolated power supply or does it take his power from the pack? The later could cause you problems

Also check your throttle voltages with a multimeter to make sure you dont have any changes on the hall sensor output.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> I am using a cheapish multimeter on the hv range so perhaps it's meter inaccuracy? I'm getting the range so I doubt that there's a major problem here. Weird? Maybe or maybe not?


Is this the meter referenced in post 212? That would seem more than adequate.

Try to get to the other batts, 8 missing volts and saggy behavior could easily mean 2-3 bad cells.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

This is exactly what mine was doing before my charger died.

never got to the bottom of it but I assumed a couple of bad cells.

Lead is a real PITA...


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

After a full charge last night I had 158V at the controller after pre-charge. By the end of the road (1/8 mile) it was down to 150V.

I'll get to those rear batteries this weekend and check them.

I'm not overly bothered by this sudden drop as my range is good, at 35 miles, so I believe the batteries are good.

The drop in power didn't happen today and I suspect a possible overheat in the controller...just need more time to investigate...anyone know where the pause button is on a 2 year old and a 6 month old?!


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> anyone know where the pause button is on a 2 year old and a 6 month old?!


It's next to the DVD player's pause button. Should be labeled 'Play'.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> It's next to the DVD player's pause button. Should be labeled 'Play'.


  Too true!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Quick up-date: 319 miles completed so far!!! I've been using the car as my everyday vehicle and do between 10 and 15 miles per day. The longest normal daily drive was 15 miles.

Max range (30-40 mph) is 35 miles, measured. I did a 35 mile trip as a range check. Pack volts started at 158V and ended at 141.6V which to me is 'empty' as it would be approximately 11.8V per battery.

I don't let the pack voltage drop below 120V, under load (10V per battery).

The car will happily cruise at 60mph and has more to give...I don't need more so haven't pushed it yet. 1380 Kg (3000lbs) at 60 mph is a heck of a lot of momentum!!!

I'm getting about 270 Wh/mile on my daily commute (30-50 mph). I do drive relatively conservatively trying to avoid braking wherever possible opting to use the car's momentum to greatest effect.

Still no heating...but working on this as it's forecast to start dropping below zero this week overnight.

Still no stereo!!

Still using a simple multimeter to monitor pack voltage which works great.

Next moves: heating, stereo and some form of ammeter...maybe Father Christmas will bring a JLD404!!!! Sshhhhhhh, it's a secret!!!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The car let me down last night...or to be more accurate I let it down!

All my 12V stuff runs off a seperate 12V battery and my choice of size seems woefully inadequate. I'm saving for a DC-DC converter but am running without a safety net and last night I fell off the trapeze!!

The little 12V battery just couldn't cope with running with the lights, brake pump, et al, when the outside air was at -2°C and it crapped out.

The voltage dropped so low that the EV200 main contactor would stay closed so on went the hazard lights and I phoned a friend!!

We were going to tow it home but without the 12V brake servo pump not working we didn't fancy that! In the end we decided to connect the accessory battery to one of the pack batteries with a pair of jump leads. It worked and got me home under my own steam but I was crapping myself that the +ve jump lead would move and touch the car body and I'd be toast.

Thankfully I'm not toast. I'm looking at a bigger battery and a decent DC-DC converter as I didn't like being stranded in freezing conditions. Thankfully my friend had some strong sweets to keep us warm...great British spirit!!!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sorry to hear that 

My new DCDC converter is in the post and will work on my current pack as well as my new one if you're still interested?

Otherwise, I got mine off ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EV-DC-to-...12?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item19cb21e8b8

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOURNS-PM...al_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3cc2a86ebf


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Mike,

Sent you a PM.

I'm looking at a 300W (+135% overload which could push it up a little) converter which can handle 124-370Vdc input with an adjustable output between 12-15Vdc which I like the sound of as I could removed periodically and give my batteries an over charge occasionally to de-calcium sulphate them if need be.

It is priced at £120 inc VAT + delivery but it is within the UK.

That's not to say I'm not interested in yours though.



skooler said:


> Sorry to hear that
> 
> My new DCDC converter is in the post and will work on my current pack as well as my new one if you're still interested?
> 
> ...


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> Brave? Nah!! I used to sail full time in all weathers so jumping in a car for 15 mins with no heating doesn't worry me! Also, it's warmer than my bike!!





Ace_bridger said:


> I didn't like being stranded in freezing conditions. Thankfully my friend had some strong sweets to keep us warm...great British spirit!!!


Now you know what i meant before .

Shame to know what happened, 
Cold and lead is asking for trouble, more if you use the heater fan to defrost the windows (20amps alone)
If you are on a budget try to get a couple of toshiba laptop chargers and wire them to the main pack. They are rated 90 to 240 AC which is 90*(sqrt 2) = 127VDC so they should work ok. 
The output is 15V 5Amps and they usually go for 5£ each.
You can use a diode on the battery side so if the chargers go off for some reason you still have the battery (dont charge the battery with them).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laptop-AC...Accessories_PowerSupplies&hash=item416658a5be

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/75W-FOR-T...Accessories_PowerSupplies&hash=item2572f523fe

Or one like this will solve all your issues, its not very expensive and you can probably find a maplin near you for warranty porposes, in case you ever need.
It comes with a meter for Amp/Volt display and they are offering a 10£ voucher if you buy 100£ or more so this is a great deal. I dont know it it operates down to 90VAC (125VDC) but you can call them to check.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/30a-13.8v-switching-power-supply-509268

I will use something similar on mine, althought I plan replace the headlights with xenon (3.5Amp each) and use LEDs for the remaining lights, (so I can save 5 to 10Amps on the lights).
Not crap automotive LED's, but some of these LED strips. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-Waterpro...158252?pt=US_Car_Lighting&hash=item416d91fcec

Dont forget to trickle charge the battery you've used to boost the little 12V one, otherwise your bank may go out of balance.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Fitted a new 60Ah battery as the accessory battery today and noticed that the pre-charge resistor was in two halves!!

Not sure why that crapped out but have made up a new one which I'll fit tomorrow.

Car back on charge and all is normal...well, as normal as it gets!!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> We were going to tow it home but without the 12V brake servo pump not working we didn't fancy that! In the end we decided to connect the accessory battery to one of the pack batteries with a pair of jump leads. It worked and got me home under my own steam but I was crapping myself that the +ve jump lead would move and touch the car body and I'd be toast.


Any idea how much juice you actually use? I would think you could just jumper for 10-15 min (I'd switch batteries every 5 min) to recharge enough to make it home without having to leave it jumped.

I replaced my ACC batt with a slightly smaller one (24DC instead of 29DC) thinking less weight would be good but it's a peice of crap. It charges to 12.8 instead of 13.2 and drops to 12 after just 10 AH. I did a test the other night and it was still running fine at 11 somethin after pulling 50AH so I guess I don't need to worry at all (I use under 10/day) it just concerns me to see an 11 on the meter.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Any idea how much juice you actually use? I would think you could just jumper for 10-15 min (I'd switch batteries every 5 min) to recharge enough to make it home without having to leave it jumped.
> 
> I replaced my ACC batt with a slightly smaller one (24DC instead of 29DC) thinking less weight would be good but it's a peice of crap. It charges to 12.8 instead of 13.2 and drops to 12 after just 10 AH. I did a test the other night and it was still running fine at 11 somethin after pulling 50AH so I guess I don't need to worry at all (I use under 10/day) it just concerns me to see an 11 on the meter.


Hey Zig,

I did consider just connecting the jump leads and leaving it, as you say, but it was frickin' cold so I went for the (potentially!) nucleur option!!

I don't know what I use from the acc battery. I could make an estimate in terms of watts buy just adding up the ratings but I don't monitor A drawn of Ah used...I don't even have a voltmeter on the acc battery...maybe I should...I should probably be doing a lot of things that I currently don't!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Ace_bridger said:


> ...I don't even have a voltmeter on the acc battery...maybe I should...


I have an old cigarette lighter socket and a spare multimeter so I guess I could just montor the voltage at the cigarette lighter socket? Would the voltage drop between battery and cig socket be significant enough to make this a crap idea? I'll investigate tomorrow...a quick check of both voltages should tell me.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The low current draw of a meter won't really care how it's connected, so a cig reading should be the same as at the posts.

If Santa happens to bring a JLD404 you could hook it to the ACC batt for a day or 3 and get readings for each accessory separately, combined, and averaged.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

That's a bloody good idea. I'll have a chat with Santa and make sure she's ordered it!!


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> Fitted a new 60Ah battery as the accessory battery today and noticed that the pre-charge resistor was in two halves!!


Hmmm. This was presumably just after you did the jumpering... though maybe it's been that way for some time, and you've been stressing your controller capacitors and main contactor(s).

Can you tell if your pre-charge resistor is open circuit from your pack voltmeter?

Would you have noticed? It's not something you look out for, after all, unless you suspect it.

If it was due to the jumpering, then it sounds like your pack isn't totally isolated, and there is some conductivity to chassis, perhaps through brush dust. This might have been enough current to burn out the pre-charge resistor over time. It would also have warmed up the brush dust in the motor to some extent, depending on the conductivity, though this would likely be negligible compared to the other losses from the motor. But I would not have thought that you would have gotten more than a few milliamps of leakage, and surely that would not have burned out the pre-charge resistor.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> Hmmm. This was presumably just after you did the jumpering... though maybe it's been that way for some time, and you've been stressing your controller capacitors and main contactor(s).
> 
> Can you tell if your pre-charge resistor is open circuit from your pack voltmeter?
> 
> ...


No, I monitor the controller voltage every time I switch the car on and watch for the voltage rise. I think it happened when I broke down the other night. When I first opened the bonnet, before any jumping, I could smell something had burnt.

I definately do not have the HV and LV circuits isolated as I get a kick if I'm working on the HV and accidently tough the car body and a quick test measuring between +HV and -LV shows that a circuit exists between the two. I don't know where the frame leak is but it is there. It doesn't affect normal operation of the car but could well have played apart in blowing the pre-charge resistor?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> When I first opened the bonnet, before any jumping, I could smell something had burnt.


Ah!



> I don't know where the frame leak is but it is there. It doesn't affect normal operation of the car but could well have played apart in blowing the pre-charge resistor?


You have a DC motor, therefore you have a frame leak. It seems to be pretty much unavoidable.

My guess now is that you leave your pre-charge contactor on, connecting your pre-charge resistor across your usually-closed main contactor. That's pretty common; it's easier that way and the extra drain is utterly negligible (assuming that the pre-charge contactor has an economizer). When the main contactor opened due to low auxiliary battery voltage, the main pack attempts to drive the motor through the pre-charge resistor. Something similar happened in the MX-5 I'm working on; we didn't realise what had happened until afterwards. We could have merely damaged the pre-charge resistor, rather than have a smelly, slightly dangerous mess. Surprisingly, with a higher voltage pack, you can actually spin the motor (albeit at lower than normal speed, and not very responsively) through a series 100R resistor:

http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forum_posts.asp?TID=980&PID=35630#35630

Considering this history, I should have realised right away how your resistor bifurcated. How soon we forget


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> Ah!
> 
> You have a DC motor, therefore you have a frame leak. It seems to be pretty much unavoidable.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have read a few build threads where frame leaks appear to be present so am not overly bothered.

I have a pre-charge contactor, connected across the main contactor, which is driven by the ignition switch. The main is driven by the controller and is activated after about 7 secs delay. Your suggestion makes complete sense now...maybe the main opened due to low supply voltage but the pre-charge stayed closed? Possible, probably?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> ...maybe the main opened due to low supply voltage but the pre-charge stayed closed? Possible, probably?


Yes. As soon as one of the contactors opened, the auxiliary battery voltage may have gone up (at least a little), ensuring that the other contactor stayed on, and guaranteeing the destruction of the pre-charge resistor 

I guess you were just unlucky (assuming that the two contactors are the same model). If the pre-charge contactor dropped out first, then you'd have had no problem with the pre-charge resistor.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I know someone had devised a latching circuit that I'm sure could be used to ensure the precharge contactor turned off if the other one did. I'm need to find that one for another application.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I'll have to scribble my circuit down for you all, (at present it's just floating about my head!) but it latches the control circuit on activating the start position at the ignition and operates pre-charge, the controller's (Revolt) delayed contactor control then activates a 2 way relay that switches off the pre-charge at the same time as powering the main contacter. In the event of any system failure, pre-charge is already off, so no resistor blow up


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

favguy said:


> I'll have to scribble my circuit down for you all, (at present it's just floating about my head!) but it latches the control circuit on activating the start position at the ignition and operates pre-charge, the controller's (Revolt) delayed contactor control then activates a 2 way relay that switches off the pre-charge at the same time as powering the main contacter. In the event of any system failure, pre-charge is already off, so no resistor blow up


Cheers guys, some very good ideas here. I'm on a training course at the moment so have a hire car...God it's awful. It's an Astra 1.6l petrol and is gutless compared to the Golf. One more day to go with the instructor who is a spitt for Gordon Brittas (UK guys should get that, US won't!)


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I just connected up the little 110/240V Bayliss hair dryer to the 160Vdc pack.


As I am a little conservative I trialled the hair dryer on the 240Vac setting and it ran fine, perfect in fact. The fan was running at normal speed and I estimate the heat output to be somewhere around 60-70% of what it kicks out on 240Vac. Plenty to demist the windscreen and warm the cab up slowly.


I said to myself "it works so don't push your luck and try it on the 110Vac setting".


So, I switched the ignition off, changed the setting on the dryer to 110Vac and switched the ignition on again. The hair dryer ran slowly and the indicated pack volts dropped to 60V. So, I switched off the ignition and put the hair dryer back on the 240Vac setting and switch the ignition back on. Everything worked fine again so I'll leave it alone and lap up the luxurious heat I now have!!!


For reference, I connected the hair dryer to the main contactor so that the dryer is switched by the ignition.


No more ice on the inside of the windows...hopefully!!


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi,

I was wondering how much your contactor uses, since you dont have a DC DC converter. Mine is drawing 3Amps @ 15VDC. 

How is the golf going with the cold weather?

Regards


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi CTS

I've not measured the current draw from the ev200.

The car has been faultless through all this snow. Having 500kg of lead has its advantages... It stuck to the road no problem!!! The hair dryer works really well to clear the windscreen on the coldest days and hearts the cab up nicely. Is a little noisy but for £10 all in its a brilliant solution.

The battery voltage is down to about 160v and the sag seems greater than earlier in the year. I've not measured the sag but it seems greater. I always keep the on load voltage above 120v when accelerating and even with the increased sag that still allows me to accelerate as much as I desire.

Still love the car and glance back every day as I leave it to go into work. I love that little eccentric bright green EV and am proud to be an EVer!!

I've been of the forum for a while but trust the Polo is coming on well?


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Glad to know its going great!

I was wondering the other day how much would the heating use in say an hour trip. Do you have it on all the time? Any ideas of how much is it draining from the battery?

I may still be doing some experiences using reverse cycle Air con. I've decided that the way to go is with a home air con compressor. Used with a VFD I can even change its speed, but for now thats only planed.


Cant wait to get mine on the road, the diesel insurance expires in a month and as a coincidence the MOT expires somewhere in march (It needs quite some work) so I am doing a bit of pressure to be able to get the Polo ready to pass an MOT althought it will be as fast as a bike for the time being.

Half of my battery pack should be with me next monday if there are no delays with the customs. Fingers crossed.


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## mk1man2000 (Oct 18, 2012)

This may be your solution.............


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I am now also part of the milk float engine club 

Can you give me some advice on insurance? I can see you've used pluginsure, how long since you've sent all the evidence till you got an awsner from them? I have a sorn car on the street and I am getting worried now. Thanks


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

mk1man2000 said:


> This may be your solution.............


Been thinking about it lately. Not sure how usefull 300Watts will be in a car sitting at -5C. Any eperience? I am actually working on a heat pump, but what I have available are 1/4HP compressors. They would be good for about 500Watts, powered by the main pack at 300V. Will open a topic about this.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

300w won't do much for you, I wouldn't bother.

Ive just bought a new 2000w hair dryer which looks better quality than the last one which packed up last month


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

When my diesel estate car has been overnight in much below freezing I often put a 2kw fan heater in the car to defrost the glass and warm the cabin before use. It can still take some 15 minutes to defrost the windscreen enough to stop it icing up again when I set off.

I first tried with a 500w fan heater and it made no difference at all.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

It is with regret that I have decided to disassemble and sell The Voltswagon.

A new job 35 miles away dictates that I must return to the land of filling ones car from a dirty petrol station. I have been offered a Citroen Xsara Tdi from a family friend which does not fill me with joy...it doesn't even have a hair dryer in the cab, I mean, how basic!! 

I've covered 1,234 miles since it was converted and the car has been faultless. I will miss her and her eccentric clunks of the EV200s and the romantic whirring of that big electric motor.

It will take me a little while to disassemble but I will soon have the following for sale...it brings a tear to my eye...:-(

1) Motor, Advanced DC #FB1-4001A, 9.1", double shaft
2) 12 x Trojan T1275 150Ah lead acid deep cycle batteries giving 37 miles range at c. 30-40 mph. Always kept charged and well watered. The only time I did the full 37 miles was on one range test, the rest of the time I just did my work trip which is 10 miles round trip so circa 33% discharged.
3) Open Revolt 144Vdc 500A controller with 1,234 miles on. Modified for use with an F1 style hall effect TPS. Has never seen more than 250A. I can include the mating TPS and throttle body as required 
4) Elcon 2.5 Kw charger programmed to charge 144V of lead acid but re-programable to whatever you want. Chosen as it draws 12A from a 240Vac supply so it runs easily off a standard 13A domestic socket
5) Two EV200 contactors
6) Lots of 35mm^2 cable
7) and all the normal ancillary stuff.
8) MK2 Golf in very good condition with 168,734 miles. V5 shows fuel as 'Electric'. MOT and tax until October.
9) Unused JLD404 intelligent ah meter. Christmas present not yet installed.
10) High voltage Fuses, low voltage relays, etc, etc. Ask me if I have what you need and you can have anything from my spares collection...people on here made the build possible so it would be the least I could do.

I'll be listing parts on here probably and also on eBay I guess but if you would like any of the above then PM me and we can chat about money.

I might keep the controller for a possible future motorcycle conversion but then again I may be persuaded to let it go, who knows.

I'm going to use the car as much as possible over the next two months, before I start the new job, as I love it and it makes me smile.

I'm gutted but needs must and life goes on. Sad face.

Adam


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Adam! No!

Firstly Congrats on the new job.

Why are you not selling it as a completed conversion? Would you consider selling as-is? I may know a buyer 

If not then I'm interested in a few bits, mainly the JLD and a few trivial components.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheers Mike. I would sell as a whole, but I just have a slight uneasy feeling should something that I built go wrong and injure someone.

I'd be happy to partially disassemble the few bits of wiring I have been meaning to improve and provide full instructions on how to wire it back up. It's simple stuff. It's just the low voltage feeds to the contactors really. I'm pretty happy with the high voltage stuff but I think it needs the HV cables routing better...the addition of some simple PVC tubing up the exhaust pipe tuinnel. The 240V feed to the charger needs improvement too, again easy stuff, an hours work? 

Simple stuff, I think we could work something if you did know someone.

Gutted.


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## mk1man2000 (Oct 18, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> Cheers Mike. I would sell as a whole, but I just have a slight uneasy feeling should something that I built go wrong and injure someone.
> 
> I'd be happy to partially disassemble the few bits of wiring I have been meaning to improve and provide full instructions on how to wire it back up. It's simple stuff. It's just the low voltage feeds to the contactors really. I'm pretty happy with the high voltage stuff but I think it needs the HV cables routing better...the addition of some simple PVC tubing up the exhaust pipe tuinnel. The 240V feed to the charger needs improvement too, again easy stuff, an hours work?
> 
> ...


Hi Ace, you are kidding me right, look i'm very serious about your Golf can you contact me please on: [email protected]


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Really sad to hear you are selling up . It's a shame you can't upgrade to lithium to get the range you need for the new commute.

Anyway, congrats. on the new job. Maybe you can get them to install at work charging so an EV becomes an option again?

My condolences on the Citroen Xsara, truly an awful car, drove one once the seat design gave me terrible back ache


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

mk1man2000 said:


> Hi Ace, you are kidding me right, look i'm very serious about your Golf can you contact me please on: [email protected]


Email sent.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

favguy said:


> Really sad to hear you are selling up . It's a shame you can't upgrade to lithium to get the range you need for the new commute.
> 
> Anyway, congrats. on the new job. Maybe you can get them to install at work charging so an EV becomes an option again?
> 
> My condolences on the Citroen Xsara, truly an awful car, drove one once the seat design gave me terrible back ache


I know but lithium is just too cost prohibitive at present.

I am having an EV charging point installed next week so that will become redundant and may become available too.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Adam,

If its not already sold I'm interested in the JLD404 (and shunt I assume?), the contactors and any HV fuses. Do you want to PM me a price?

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm just waiting for a deposit for the car as a whole but I'll let you know if that's not forthcoming.

Cheers, adam


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Adam, Sorry to hear you have to lose your car like this. But otherwise congrats on the new job.

If it is to be parted out I could well be interested in the controller and throttle set up please.
I'd also be interested in the charger but I am really stretching my funds as it is.

Cheers.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Noted Alfred, I'll let you know either way.

Cheers

Adam


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm pleased to say that the car has been sold complete!! I'm chuffed as nuts as it means the car will live on!!


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> I'm pleased to say that the car has been sold complete!! I'm chuffed as nuts as it means the car will live on!!


Long Live the Electric Golf  

Have you kept the hair Drier as a reminder!? I sure got one for the Polo lol
The Low setting Draws 750Watts on My battery and its just enough to keep the cabin Warm.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Excellent news about the sale of your car. Its excellent to know in such a tough market.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sweet work, out of interest, how much for and was it to anyone on here? 

Good luck with the new job.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's good news!

It saves you parting it out and means someone else will be able to use and enjoy it.

Did you point them in our direction?

Perhaps at some point soon you will be able to look at another EV project, maybe one just for fun?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah, good news. The new owner is Mk1man on here. I can't divulge the price, that's between him and me...mutually beneficial would be a good description.

Now...about that electric trail bike idea...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ace_bridger said:


> Yeah, good news. The new owner is Mk1man on here. I can't divulge the price, that's between him and me...mutually beneficial would be a good description.


 Welcome Mk1man!



Ace_bridger said:


> Now...about that electric trail bike idea...


Electric tractors are always an option....




...especially fast ones with big motors!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

My Charge Master charging point was installed today...now surplus to requirements!! :-(

Looks lovely, will try and get picture on tonight. If anyone is interested then PM me.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> My Charge Master charging point was installed today...now surplus to requirements!! :-(
> 
> Looks lovely, will try and get picture on tonight. If anyone is interested then PM me.


Mk1man? Isnt that guy from London as well?

Tell me about that charger thing. I wanted to get one for My Polo, in fact I would be quite happy to get a membership to use the public charging points. I've registered for but never got an awnser. What have you done?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Its a Charge Master 3.6kw. I'll be removing it and will accept offers.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

It has everything needed to connect to a standard consumer unit...MCB, armoured cable, charging pod (as shown) and earthing spike.

First dibs on here and then its going on eBay. Brand new, never used, installed professionally today. Sad face.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> It has everything needed to connect to a standard consumer unit...MCB, armoured cable, charging pod (as shown) and earthing spike.
> 
> First dibs on here and then its going on eBay. Brand new, never used, installed professionally today. Sad face.


 
I am quite surprised you're not pondering any other conversion in the future after the golf.

Anyway what is the main diference between the charging station and having a suitable 32A socket to the car? Does it have like an RFID tag or something?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The car was collected on Friday and now the drive looks very empty!!

The new owner seems very happy with his new purchase which is great.

I don't have the time for another conversion, I didn't have time to do this one even but it sneaked in there! The new job will take me awasy from home for a considerable time more than present and I want to enjoy the time with the kids while they're young.

Anyways, I have an extension to build and some landscaping to do!


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ace_bridger said:


> The car was collected on Friday and now the drive looks very empty!!
> 
> The new owner seems very happy with his new purchase which is great.
> 
> ...


Tell me about time...

The whole point of mine was to build something of my own, so I can use on my curriculum by the time I finish University. Its also a great way of gaining experience with something real as I never worked with currents in excess of 100Amps and this was at 48VDC. Its quite a jump and a responsibility to work with over 400V and now 700V! I have been working a few years since I finished college and recognition was something I never had.

Having said this I had no idea how much of a commitment it would be when I started mine. It certainly looked easier than it was. I made it harder by designing everything from scratch - adapters, inverter, electrical interfaces, boxes... but I think it was worth it and it will be part of my future career! 

Anyway I would take nothing near the time I originally took to rebuild one again if it was another VW. Experience makes a lot of difference and mistakes are now part of the past 

Well hope its some help for new members and by the way good luck with your new job and sorry for hijacking your topic


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

End time: 27 May 2013 20:38:57

Item: Charge Master 3.6Kw Homecharge-i J1772 Electric Car Pod

URL: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=111077847595

Alt URL: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Charge-Mas...-/111077847595


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Contact me directly if you're interested in the Charge Master Pod. I don't know what its worth but I'm sure we could work out a price.

Cheers

Adam


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