# 80MPH 100Miles range. Ah?



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

AirH0g said:


> I see some companies (zero for one) advertise 100 and 100 using 9Kwh packs. Are these numbers exaggerated.


Hi Air,

I think in a lot of cases the numbers are exaggerated, especially when posted by outfits that haven't actually even built the bike. I thought it might be the case with Zero but read some posts elsewhere by the guy brought in to design the battery pack for them. He claims that the figure is real and was verified on a "cycle" standard (DOT, EPA ???). Cycle here meaning a duty cycle or combination of driving conditions, not at 100 mph. 

major


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Welcome Air

I remark than your drag coefficient number of 1.00 is really bad. Do you think build a motorcycle with that much strange shape?

Just drop this number a bit lower can greatly affect the range.
I used 0.85 for my absolutely none aerodynamic DRZ SM and the calcul was close to reality (but other parameter can influence).

What kind of bike do you think build?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I think you're on the right track. Decrease the drag a little, you're not a brick wall.

I'd go higher voltage with the AC20. It uses a controller that can go to 130Vmax, but that's a fully charged pack. So you want to be below that.

I'm designing around 36 cells in series (4 in parallel) which at 3.3V nom, would be about 118V, but hot off the charge, they may right at 130V or just below it. Just keep it under 130V fully charged and you'll work fine. Having higher voltage pulls the peak torque out to a higher RPM.


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## AirH0g (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for they info on the drag guys. i tried to overshoot so i wouldn't be let down. Do you guys think the 14Kwh number is close? im trying to research batteries for making a pack, im pretty sure headways are out due to the max 16Ah per cell. That would be like 36s8p  Thundersky seems to have a low 3C discharge. any viable options out there?

Heres the frame this will all go in. theres a bit of room, albeit odly shaped.

Thanks again


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

getting 14kwh is going to be a challenge..... pretty odd shape.

Putting headways together in there isn't going to be that hard, just lots of bussbar. They offer the benefit of higher C-rates than the TS, Calb and HiPower cells.... just something to consider.

Headway is what I chose, they're really configurable.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Cool shape! Hardtail!!
Big battery pack in front and drivetrain in front of rear wheel can be good. 

I also choose headway cells for my projects for tight space and strange form, but there imply a lot of parts and trouble. I think they will be perfect for small battery pack with high discharge, not for large battery pack like yours.

If you can live with big bloc between legs, 72 sinopoly 60Ah cells (the new smaller one) in 36s 2p will give 115v 120Ah (13.8 kwh). But 300 lbs, lot of space and I don't think you need that much to acheive your goal.

About your ''low 3C discharge'', I can said that will be enough.
For example, with a 11.5 Kwh battery pack at 3C = 34.5 Kw from battery and roughly 37 hp at motor shaft. It's lot more than what your small motor can take for long time!!
My gas DRZ SM can hit 100 mph with 32 hp... for exemple.
And for hard acceleration, those cells are rated 5C for less than 10 sec.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

AirH0g said:


> Hey there, new around here, i have been looking through all the newbie posts and doing some research but just wanted to pick the community brain. I have a small motorcycle shop and build ICE custom cycles. I am looking to make a EV copy of a bike i have done in the past.
> 
> The question lies in the components and cells obviously. Doing the math in trying to achieve 80MPH and 100 miles of range (@50mph average sustained or close to it) i usually come up with about 14Kwh which is obviously a bit of bulk. And a bit pricey as well. I see some companies (zero for one) advertise 100 and 100 using 9Kwh packs. Are these numbers exaggerated.
> 
> ...


The consensus of folks seems to be that, for purposes of propulsion, it takes around 8Kwh of battery to equal 1 gallon of gas (rough number, and that takes you near zero battery left over). Your example would be equal to about 1.5 gallons of usable "fuel;" so, unless your bike gets around 65mpg at 50mph with ICE you probably won't get the range you are hoping for.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

PhantomPholly said:


> you probably won't get the range you are hoping for.


Ooops! I thinks Phantom is right... I had 100 km in mind!

50 mph x 2 hours = 100 miles
14 kwh x 0.8 = 11.2 kwh usable / 2h = 5.6 kw from battery and around 6 hp at motor shaft.

You can't probably hit 50 mph with 6 hp...


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

I thought it's worth mentioning that some batteries are expected to hit the markets (this is kind of a "rumor has it" thing) that have the discharge rate you'll want with the energy density that you'll need. Early last year, Richard from Alliance told me he had these batteries on his test bench that help make 200 miles attainable on a motorcycle. I don't know how reliable Richard is in that regard (I did not have a good experience purchasing from him) and no time frame was provided. 

Have you considered throwing two Agni 95R motors on there? The AC-20 is bulky and long. If I am remembering right (I rubbed noses with one), it's as big as my ADC K91 4003, which is an awkward size for a motorcycle. I don't like the length or the weight. Two Agni motors would weigh about the same, but give a bit more power. I have only read about the Agni motor, so I'm not suggesting based on experience. It would cost more. 
I don't think you'll have much trouble stuffing batteries on that frame. I easily fit 32 TS40AHA on my Honda Interceptor and have enough room in (what used to be the gas tank) the "trunk" for 5 overflowing bags of groceries. Whatever can't fit on the front portion of the frame should do well enough on the back. I have tested loading motorcycles in various ways and properly placed rear weight only changes how you handle the braking, which is already a concern on motorcycles. 

I've always been more worried about securing the batteries to avoid theft than how many I can fit. Also, it looks like they'd be exposed on that style of bike. I covered mine up with fairings so it just looks like any other motorcycle.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

V96400A said:


> I Have you considered throwing two Agni 95R motors on there?


Looks like AirHOg will have a heavy bike and geared for 80mph. I think the dual Agni approach will be on the wimpy side and he'll see durability issues. Even the AC20 will have heat problems on long hard rides, but will likely tolerate abuse a whole lot better than brushed PMs. His build reminds me of the Moto Electra Norton http://motoelectra.com/ They went up to the AC31.

Regards,

major


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

The frame looks like it has room for an AC31 (which is now called the AC35 package due to the larger controller). It's a great solution too.


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