# Planning 1972 Fiat 600 conversion



## sergeklapwijk (Jul 20, 2011)

Skill level: Limited mechanic skill level (BsC MechE student)

Performance Goals: 40+ miles of range, 0-100km/h (62mph) in ~10 seconds (would love faster if possible), 140km/h (88mph) top speed

Budget: 10000-12000 USD budget

Other requests: J1772 connector+charging system, Solid-state heating, meters

Considered parts:
- 12x TS-LFP60AH Thundersky batts
- Advanced DC 72-144 VDC, 28.5HP continuous at 144 VDC, 100 HP peak, 9.1" Dia. motor
- Curtis 72-120VDC 400Amp Controller

Question: Alternatively, would an AC motor+controller fit the budget?

Thanks in advance


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

cute little car.

Certainly a good option from the size and weight perspective (smaller is better)

With lithium, 40 miles range is no problem at all. 90mph top speed should be doable with proper gearing and 10s or so 0-60 time is reasonable to achieve in a small light car.

An ADC 9" motor is possibly even too big for that car. An 8" motor would provide plenty of power while saving some weight. The 9" motor is what many people use in conversions weighing up to 2000kg (two tons) or so. The one in my 1500kg MR2 has plenty of oomph for the size of the car even with its rather wimpy curtis 1231 controller.

You might look at the curtis / HPGC AC50 system if you want an economical AC drive train. good for up to 108V nominal battery voltage and about 100 horsepower. 

to get a usable 40 mile range under most conditions, shoot for usable battery capacity of about 12kwh. this will provide plenty of margin and might even get you more like 50 or 60 miles depending on the driving conditions. 144V at 100AH (about 45 lithium cells) would give about this usable capacity with lithium. 96V at 160AH (about 30 lithium cells) is also right in that ballpark, and would work with the HPGC system.

As for budget, A DC system is usually going to be cheaper, especially if you can get ahold of a good forklift motor to use. However the HPGC system I mentioned is comparable in price to the cost of a new curtis 1231 controller and an ADC 9" motor and IMHO a no brainer for a low voltage, small car conversion. A lithium battery pack such as what I suggested above is going to cost $6-7K US retail prices. You also need to figure the charger, DC/DC, various contactors, gauges and a lot of copper. Better to budget $15-20K. To stay around $10K, use lead acid instead of lithium but you will sacrifice range and cycle life to do this.


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## sergeklapwijk (Jul 20, 2011)

madderscience said:


> cute little car.
> 
> Certainly a good option from the size and weight perspective (smaller is better)
> 
> ...


I'll look into those drivetrains, thanks! Light weight has really been my focal point, so I'm trying to avoid lead-acid tech, which I agree, is very challenging on this budget. I'm pretty sure with 12kWh of lead-acid in the car, the suspension and braking systems would need a serious upgrade.

Edit: From http://en.kadusa.com/fiat-600-technical.htm, I find that the specified fuel consumption is 5.8L/100km, which works out to 348.38Wh/mile for the gasoline system. Guessing the EV propulsion has overall 90% efficiency and the original gasoline system had 20% efficiency, I would go 60 miles (or 40 miles in bad condition) on approx. 5kWh. Including SOC requirements (50% usable), 12 kWh would provide me with enough headroom.
12kWh/96V = 125 Ah, so I guess 30x TS-LFP 160Ah?


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

sergeklapwijk;251271
Edit: From [url said:


> http://en.kadusa.com/fiat-600-technical.htm[/url], I find that the specified fuel consumption is 5.8L/100km


A simple way to calculate your EV Wh/km is to multiply the ICE per 100 by 20 to 25.

This gives 120 to 150 watt hours per km or 190 to 240 Wh per mile.

To do 50km at 80% DOD you'd need around a 9 kWh pack. The cost for that in lithium (if you can get the magic $1.10 per amp hour) is a bit over 3K.

Perhaps you can design the build so that you can add additional cells later on for more voltage and thus power / range. Start off @ 96 volts = 30 * 100 ah cells. This is around $4K of lithiums.

I think that would be better than going down the lead sled path.


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## sergeklapwijk (Jul 20, 2011)

drgrieve said:


> A simple way to calculate your EV Wh/km is to multiply the ICE per 100 by 20 to 25.
> 
> This gives 120 to 150 watt hours per km or 190 to 240 Wh per mile.
> 
> ...


Is 80% DoD reasonable for these packs??


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Here is an older conversion of a Fiat 600 for inspiration. I think it is currently being upgraded to a Lithium pack.


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## sergeklapwijk (Jul 20, 2011)

What charger (as in voltage,amps etc.) would everybody recommend for this setup? A Manzanita?


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## sergeklapwijk (Jul 20, 2011)

As I'm trying to secure some funding, I came up with the idea of mounting the batteries (or partially) in the floor of the 600 with the batteries laying on their flat side. But examining the batteries' technical drawing, wouldn't this be a real PITA to fit with the top end connector? Are there workarounds for this? Anyone experience with mounting Thundersky's in the floor?


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