# [EVDL] controller revelation



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Willie,

The best person to answer you question about WarP motor performance is from 
George F. Hamstr at NetGain at [email protected] or at [email protected]

I did just that when I overhaul my EV in 2002 to a WarP 9 motor and later 
went to a Warp 11 motor as George recommended.

E-mail all your data about your EV to George on what type of motor it has, 
controller type, battery type, battery AH, battery voltage, differential 
gear ratio, overall gear ratio, type of tire, size of tire, wheel type and 
weight of tire and wheel, the running circumference of the tire, the total 
weight of the EV with you in it, the front end and rear end weight, road 
conditions, frontal area, and the low and high ambient air temperatures.

He will then send you a spread sheet what type of motor to use, controller, 
overall gear ratio, the recommended motor ampere (which is 199 amps for a 
WarP 9 for continuous operation and may be up to 300 amps at a certain 
ambient temperature for about 60 minutes and the recommended cool down 
period between increase motor ampere over 199 motor amperes.

The spread sheet stated the maximum rpm of the WarP 9 motor develops it's 
maximum torque and HP at 3300 rpm for my EV which is 28 mph at a 10.0:1 
overall gear ratio.

George recommended a WarP 11 motor which the maximum hp and torque for my EV 
is at 1800 rpm. I was able to drive a 6800 lb EV in a overall ratio of 
5.57:1 at 30 mph at 200 motor ampere and 75 battery ampere on a level road 
way. In a overall gear ratio of 10:1, I can climb a one mile steep hill 
(residential area) at 25 mph at 200 motor amp and 75 battery amp.

The motor at the maximum torque and HP is known as the sweet spot of a 
electric motor or even for a engine.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Willie McKemie" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:53 AM
Subject: [EVDL] controller revelation


> I've had a Soliton1 now for over a year. Performance has never been
> noteworthy though I have not much been interested in performance. 0-60
> was 18-19 seconds starting in 2nd and shifting (which was time
> consuming) to 3rd. When Steve Clunn was here in the summer he
> commented that performance seem lethargic and thought I was shifting
> excessively. As I recall, I had the max battery current set to less
> than 800 amps, probably more like 600. Max motor current was set to
> about the same. I never much experimented with those settings.
>
> I got the controller back from being repaired (intermittently failed to
> start) a few weeks ago. I drove it around with apparently default
> settings; performance was OK but I eventually started poking around in
> the setup. I set max battery current to 800 (~3C for my 48 260ah cells)
> and max motor amps to 1000. WOW! What a difference! I don't know
> whether the motor amps made the difference or whether the controller
> has been improved. Before, I had been starting in 2nd though 3rd would
> work. Now, I can easily start in 4th, which is direct drive. 0-60 in
> 4th is about 17-18 seconds. I just increased the current ramp up slope
> but haven't tested again; launching was noticeably slow with the
> default setting and is noticeably better now.
>
> I am now re-thinking my view that a Warp9 at 140-160 volts is not
> suitable for direct drive; I've been thinking of doing an MGB which
> would make a much nicer conversion without a transmission.
>
> I wonder if the transmission in the Hyundai will stand up to all that
> 4th gear torque? I guess I should add a motor blower if I use 4th as
> the starting gear. I wonder if the motor will stand up to the new
> current setting? Comments solicited.
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/2314
>
> -- 
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 30 days 2 hours 13 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Before you go running around in one gear, be sure to pay attention to motor
heating. I have a FAQ that goes over issues here: 
http://www.cafeelectricpress.com/blog/?p=22


-----
-Otmar-

914 EV, California Poppy, Zilla research vehicle. 
http://evcl.com/914/

The Zilla factory is at:
http://manzanitamicro.com/

Zilla Support is still at: 
http://cafeelectric.com/Ssupport.php
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/controller-revelation-tp4417433p4417965.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > I've had a Soliton1 now for over a year. Performance has never been
> > noteworthy though I have not much been interested in performance. 0-60
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Output shaft torque will be the same, regardless of starting gear.

Input shaft may have issues if it is of smaller design (dia, bearings, etc).

Brett


> "Martin WINLOW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 24 Feb 2012, at 14:53, Willie McKemie wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

More than likely it was the motor current limit.
NOTE that when you are starting from standstill,
the motor current can easily be 10x the battery amps.
For example: 500A motor current, 50A pack current.
Of course, the motor *voltage* is 10x lower than the
pack voltage and the controller is "on" less than
10% of the time. That is why the thing that blows in
a DC controller is often the freewheel diode during a
take-off, because it may carry the full motor current
during the majority of the time...
When the motor reaches its top speed, the controller
should typically be full on (except in very high voltage
packs that deliberately keep motor voltage under pack
voltage) When the controller is full on, that is the
only time that motor current is not larger than
battery current (in a DC setup).

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:53 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] controller revelation

I've had a Soliton1 now for over a year. Performance has never been
noteworthy though I have not much been interested in performance. 0-60
was 18-19 seconds starting in 2nd and shifting (which was time
consuming) to 3rd. When Steve Clunn was here in the summer he commented
that performance seem lethargic and thought I was shifting excessively.
As I recall, I had the max battery current set to less than 800 amps,
probably more like 600. Max motor current was set to about the same. I
never much experimented with those settings.

I got the controller back from being repaired (intermittently failed to
start) a few weeks ago. I drove it around with apparently default
settings; performance was OK but I eventually started poking around in
the setup. I set max battery current to 800 (~3C for my 48 260ah cells)
and max motor amps to 1000. WOW! What a difference! I don't know
whether the motor amps made the difference or whether the controller has
been improved. Before, I had been starting in 2nd though 3rd would
work. Now, I can easily start in 4th, which is direct drive. 0-60 in
4th is about 17-18 seconds. I just increased the current ramp up slope
but haven't tested again; launching was noticeably slow with the default
setting and is noticeably better now.

I am now re-thinking my view that a Warp9 at 140-160 volts is not
suitable for direct drive; I've been thinking of doing an MGB which
would make a much nicer conversion without a transmission.

I wonder if the transmission in the Hyundai will stand up to all that
4th gear torque? I guess I should add a motor blower if I use 4th as
the starting gear. I wonder if the motor will stand up to the new
current setting? Comments solicited.

http://www.evalbum.com/2314

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 30 days 2 hours 13 minutes

_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Otmar,

Its it very true that motor temperature and motor ampere is the most 
important in a EV. That's why I have a motor ampere and voltage meter on 
the dash. Plus I use the AMP on TACH mode where the large 4 inch motor amp 
display is right in front of me.

I am either running the GE-11 or WarP-11 that I can hold the motor ampere at 
or below 200 amps at 15 to 45 mph. I know you was some what worry about my 
EV weighing 7050 lbs at the time, but I said I have the very deep gears 
which is over 19:1 in 1st and 14:1 in 2nd using a manual transmission.

Replace the 3-speed Saginaw cast iron manual transmission and with a 
GM-TH400 that was converted from automatic to manual by tci.com. It uses no 
flywheel, pressure plate, clutch mechanism, heavy steel bell housing, no 
governor, no vacuum control and no accelerator control. The EV weight is now 
at 6800 lbs.

I choose the shifting points which is 2nd gear most of the time. May use 1st 
gear to start moving over a barrier going up hill like a ramp or a foot of 
snow.

In first gear the overall ratio starts out at 27:1 gear ratio which varies 
down to 15:1 when the motor is at 1800 rpm.

If I decide to start out in 2nd gear, the ratio starts out at 18:1 and 
varies down to 10:1 at 1800 rpm.

Could start out in 3rd gear where the gear ratio starts out at 10:1 and 
again varies down to 5.57:1 at 1800 rpm, but the motor ampere gets way up to 
300 amps at start up and again varies down to 200 amps or below.

The 1800 rpm happens to be the sweet spot for the WarP-11 motor, so the 
shifting is down at this point.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Otmar" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] controller revelation


> Before you go running around in one gear, be sure to pay attention to 
> motor
> heating. I have a FAQ that goes over issues here:
> http://www.cafeelectricpress.com/blog/?p=22
>
>
> -----
> -Otmar-
>
> 914 EV, California Poppy, Zilla research vehicle.
> http://evcl.com/914/
>
> The Zilla factory is at:
> http://manzanitamicro.com/
>
> Zilla Support is still at:
> http://cafeelectric.com/Ssupport.php
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/controller-revelation-tp4417433p4417965.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Willie,
> >
> > The best person to answer you question about WarP motor performance is from
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 08:54:47AM -0700, Roland Wiench wrote:
> >> Hello Willie,
> ...


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