# EV sets 0-60 record.



## arbartz (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm currently on my school's SAE Formula Hybrid team and I've been trying to convince them to go full electric, but I'm the only E.E. and there are dozens of M.E.'s who won't give up the 250cc engine. I've pretty much designed the entire electric side of the car by myself, so you'd think they would believe me when I tell them how full electric would be a better option.

I'm hoping I can use this to change their minds, we're even building a new chassis next year so this would be perfect to get the ball rolling on the design.

The main problem would be finding the most powerful motors that are light enough to be mounted on the hubs...


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

not sure how to put 0-60 in context, I mean white zombie has 1.8 second 0-60 times, and does a 10 second 1/4 mile to boot. If the hubs are designed to favor acceleration over top speed then it is going to fall flat on the straights. Really need a few more data points to have a meaningful article (and not sure hub motors are the first choice where handling is concerned, especially in a 370lb vehicle). A couple axle shafts are probably a good handling investment, since the chassis doesn't have the mass/leverage to put the relatively heavy hubs back on the ground.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm sure they built their "car" (closer to a kart actually !), to specifically set this "record" (??) so it's performance in other aspects is likely to be highly compromised. ( much like a drag car is).
One thing is for sure, at that weight it is not going to have much battery range !


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

arbartz said:


> I'm currently on my school's SAE Formula Hybrid team and I've been trying to convince them to go full electric, but I'm the only E.E. and there are dozens of M.E.'s who won't give up the 250cc engine. ...


You should make a point to the school's board as to how badly they have failed to educate the future engineers in regards to modern drive systems. ,!


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## arbartz (Sep 27, 2013)

Karter2 said:


> You should make a point to the school's board as to how badly they have failed to educate the future engineers in regards to modern drive systems. ,!


Yeah...you see the thing about that is...

I really like big V8's and just engines in general, so I understand where they are coming from when they are reluctant to go full electric. Since we are limited to a 250cc engine, but have pretty much no limits to the electrical side it just makes sense to go full electric. They don't see that though and since I'm only 1 EE against a dozen ME's along with the fact that this program is run by the ME department I don't think I'll get my wish. 

So the best I can hope for is a hybrid with a engine&motor in the back and dual motors up front.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Interesting rules
http://www.formula-hybrid.org/wp-content/uploads/2015-Formula-Hybrid-Rules-Rev-2.pdf

top speed of 65mph, 200 foot straights, 30mph average speed. hybrids have to do the acceleration competition on electric only (that is a weird one)?!? but sets the stage for making the electric part beefy. And you might as well simplify the ICE to a generator at that point (might help in the endurance section, unless you can competitively do 44km on 5kwh).

you *might* think about direct drive with the 250 all the same, since these things are never sitting still you can use brake regen instead of onboard regen and lose carrying an extra generator and get the 250 power to the road more efficiently, though controlling it all will be interesting.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

arbartz said:


> . Since we are limited to a 250cc engine, but have pretty much no limits to the electrical side it just makes sense to go full electric. They don't see that though and since I'm only 1 EE against a dozen ME's along with the fact that this program is run by the ME department I don't think I'll get my wish..


 ME or EE doesnt matter, its just a drive train and power source.
Any good engineer should be able to see which is the most appropriate for the task in hand.
Whoever is the leader or mentor of that group needs to decide if they are in the competition to win, or just to play with "engines".
If there is a real advantage of going full electric it needs to be explained and quantified.


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## arbartz (Sep 27, 2013)

dcb said:


> Interesting rules
> http://www.formula-hybrid.org/wp-content/uploads/2015-Formula-Hybrid-Rules-Rev-2.pdf
> 
> top speed of 65mph, 200 foot straights, 30mph average speed. hybrids have to do the acceleration competition on electric only (that is a weird one)?!? but sets the stage for making the electric part beefy. And you might as well simplify the ICE to a generator at that point (might help in the endurance section, unless you can competitively do 44km on 5kwh).
> ...


Yeah, the rules are a tad strange in some areas. In order to even qualify as a true hybrid you have to be able to do a 75m acceleration run in under 10 seconds in full electric mode. 



Karter2 said:


> ME or EE doesnt matter, its just a drive train and power source.
> Any good engineer should be able to see which is the most appropriate for the task in hand.
> Whoever is the leader or mentor of that group needs to decide if they are in the competition to win, or just to play with "engines".
> If there is a real advantage of going full electric it needs to be explained and quantified.


This is very true, but a lot of it has to do with the fact that the ME department thinks an all electric vehicle is too easy. We used to have a Formula Student team, but after we won a few years in a row they determined that it was too easy and forced us to do hybrid only. I still think that since we've never had an all electric vehicle, they shouldn't judge as to how easy or hard it will be.


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## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

Karter2 said:


> Maybe John Metric should have a quiet chat with someone about world record claims !


Perhaps NEDRA should start keeping a 0-60mph record?
The motorcycles have this little go kart beat by a huge margin.
0-60mph under one second.

My little Miata a full size and full weight car beats this little guy by several tenths of a second.
1.30 60 ft time, 0-60mph 1.3-1.4seconds???

I keep an eye on the new AC/PMDC motors, as soon as they can do about 250kw peak each, I might think about switching.
I kind of like the pancake motors that can just about reach 250kw, on a common shaft, we could add about four or six of these in a row.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

John Metric said:


> I kind of like the pancake motors that can just about reach 250kw, on a common shaft, we could add about four or six of these in a row.


 Like the Drayson ?,...John 
http://www.draysonracingtechnologies.com/product.html?Electric-Drivetrain-System-1
..but , yes they still seem to be limited in peak power capability.
Also interesting that those Swiss students were able to get 37 kW from each of their 3.4 kg AMZ hub motors !


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## arbartz (Sep 27, 2013)

Karter2 said:


> Also interesting that those Swiss students were able to get 37 kW from each of their 3.4 kg AMZ hub motors !


Where could I find motors like that? I'm trying to put together a proposal to my team about going full electric next year, but the best I can find right now for hub motors are the Agni 155R's.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

and the misinformation keeps coming
http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2014/11/swiss-electric-car-sets-world.html


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

You didn't notice the pixie dust being converted from unicorn horn power source.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

dcb said:


> and the misinformation keeps coming
> http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2014/11/swiss-electric-car-sets-world.html


What is it you doubt ? The timing ? 
Or Just the fact that they are claiming a " world record" ?
Something else ?


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Karter2 said:


> What is it you doubt ? The timing ?
> Or Just the fact that they are claiming a " world record" ?
> Something else ?


mostly the completely unqualified "Guinness World Record for acceleration of an electric car" bit. Drag racers still have a form that follows function, so that part is annoying too. It should be immediately obvious that this isn't the fastest electric vehicle on the planet, or at least be cause for a mote of further investigation.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

I agree , the record claims are pretty specific to their class of vehicle and limited in max speed also.
As they seem to be setting their own rules for this record,...I wonder if they actually have to use a human driver ?..... For a <2 spec dash , you could line it up on rails and fire a 1.5 sec throttle timer , or control like an RC car.
Saving 50-60 kg should bring that time down even more !
But never the less, they do seem to have developed an impressive drive & control package.....
..just a shame it is not commercially available .


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

yah, guinness is just unaware, they don't list any qualifiers in the page, these are the only people bothering to measure 0-100kph apparently for the purposes of record setting. Sounds like an easy record for a number of people if they want it?

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-6000/fastest-0-100-kmh-acceleration-electric-car/


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

lol, fastest 1/4 mile electric car @ 11.850 sec ?!? 

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/11000/fastest-quarter-mile-by-an-electric-car

If guinness is obsolete, I don't really feel like being the one to clue them in. they should be a bit more proactive, http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

http://insideevs.com/grimsels-0-100-kmh-1-785-seconds-ev-record-wvideo/


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