# [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
located?
I have a friend who is questioning that assertation, as we can't find
anything other than discussions on the EVDL to prove it.


_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

you mean proof other than there are none for sale on the open market?
but there are small ones,
with battery plants being built all over the world and they all are using
other chemistry
at what point is having it written down make it real ??
Just ask him to prove it is not true and find said product for sale , many
would be happy to loose that argument and buy the already proven design.



> John G. Lussmyer <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
> > News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

See: http://en.wikipeodia.org/wiki/Nickel_metal_hydride_battery

Page all the way down to: Patents and licenses

It states that the Cobasy's will not sell a small order of large format NIMH 
batteries to small companies, but it will sell very large orders where even 
Toyota could not buy them, therefore Toyota did not get the license rights 
for these batteries.

You yourself can purchase the smaller batteries from a vender and gang them 
together for any ampere and voltage you want for your own use.

This patent will run out in 2015 which is base on the original patent date 
of 1995 which is now all patents have a final 20 year life from the original 
inventor. But the original discovery of the NIMH process was in the 1970's. 
Back then, you can have a 17 year patent life with another 17 year 
renewable. If the patent was apply for in 1980, then the final date is 
still 2014-15.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH


> Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
> News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
> located?
> I have a friend who is questioning that assertation, as we can't find
> anything other than discussions on the EVDL to prove it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Should be noted that it is a patent for one type of or process of or somesuch, not blanket NiMH 
Presumably someone could make a large format with some other process. 

Problem is the threat that Chevron could change their mind after you tool up and before you make money. ......


---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------

Subject : Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH

Date : Sat, 6 Sep 2008 09:36:57 -0500

From : "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>

To : "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>


you mean proof other than there are none for sale on the open market?
but there are small ones,
with battery plants being built all over the world and they all are using
other chemistry
at what point is having it written down make it real ??
Just ask him to prove it is not true and find said product for sale , many
would be happy to loose that argument and buy the already proven design.



> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> 
> > Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
> > News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > It states that the Cobasy's will not sell a small order of
> > large format NIMH batteries to small companies, but it will
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Look it up and see what it says.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Stockton" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH




> > Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> > > It states that the Cobasy's will not sell a small order of
> > > large format NIMH batteries to small companies, but it will
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 6 Sep 2008 at 12:56, Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > It is incorrect that Cobasys will not sell their batteries, or that they
> > require such large orders that even Toyota couldn't afford to buy them.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH


> Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
> News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
> located?
> I have a friend who is questioning that assertation, as we can't find
> anything other than discussions on the EVDL to prove it.



I've been wondering the same thing, and the evidence is that, at least 
currently, this is not the case. The closest you will find is an 
unattributed, untracable statement like the one on wikipedia that Toyota had 
"difficulty in getting smaller orders of large format NiMH batteries to 
service the existing 825 RAV-4EVs." The wikipedia article then goes on to 
make the claim that being unwilling to sell batteries in quantities of about 
10 means that the won't sell them. I find this conclusion unsupportable. As 
for how unsupportable, remind me again what the individual cell size in the 
killacycle? and the tesla? and pretty much every other professionally built 
design that uses any technology? Everyone that builds anything more than 
home-built conversions seems to reach the same conclusion that small cell 
sizes are more useful. In fact, the same article cites "In March 2007, GM 
announced that it would use Cobasys NiMH batteries in the 2008 Chevrolet 
Malibu hybrid as well" leading one to conclude clearly that this is not 
currently the case.

So I concluded quite some time ago that claims and reality don't exactly 
match up on this. The exact degree to which this is true is difficult to 
ascertain. It seems highly likely that Cobasys doesn't want to sell single 
units, the tooling for a single unit would make it prohibitively expensive, 
but this does not truly lead to the conclusion that Cobasys is unwilling to 
sell any high-capacity batteries.
Joe 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> design that uses any technology? Everyone that builds anything more 
> than
> home-built conversions seems to reach the same conclusion that small 
> cell
> sizes are more useful. In fact, the same article cites "In March 
> 2007, GM

This leads me to wonder something else... Has anybody ever tried 
building an EV to run on rechargeable AA batteries?

I know this sounds a little silly at first, as it would take literally 
hundreds or thousands of batteries in both series and parallel to get 
the required amps and volts, but NiMH rechargeable AA batteries can be 
had at your local drug store, radio shack, as well as many other 
places. If you had a large enough surplus, you could have dozens of 
them laying about ready for use, and could easily build 12v 'packs' of 
batteries out of 1/2" electrical conduit.

Anyone want to tell me why this wouldn't work?
Anyone know how many AA batteries would be required to store the same 
wattage as a pair of 6v floodies?
We won't discuss cost just yet, I'm sure it's going to be 
prohibitively expensive to buy them all at once, but I use AAs for all 
kinds of things, and could be stocking them right now while I'm still 
planning my build.

~Jon


_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 6 Sep 2008 at 22:49, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> 
> > remind me again what the individual cell size in the
> > killacycle? and the tesla? and pretty much every other professionally built
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH




> > On 6 Sep 2008 at 22:49, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> >> [real professionals use small cells]
> > There may be other reasons for using small cells, but the main one is that
> > large lithium cells aren't currently available at a price that would make
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Bishop" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH


>> design that uses any technology? Everyone that builds anything more
>> than
>> home-built conversions seems to reach the same conclusion that small
>> cell
>> sizes are more useful. In fact, the same article cites "In March
>> 2007, GM
>
> This leads me to wonder something else... Has anybody ever tried
> building an EV to run on rechargeable AA batteries?
>
> I know this sounds a little silly at first, as it would take literally
> hundreds or thousands of batteries in both series and parallel to get
> the required amps and volts, but NiMH rechargeable AA batteries can be
> had at your local drug store, radio shack, as well as many other
> places. If you had a large enough surplus, you could have dozens of
> them laying about ready for use, and could easily build 12v 'packs' of
> batteries out of 1/2" electrical conduit.

Actually it is not silly. This same basic thought process is the reason they 
are called batteries instead of cells, a cell is a single energy storage 
unit, a battery is a collection of cells.

> Anyone want to tell me why this wouldn't work?

It will work, I would recommend building say 100kWh boxes and using them 
much like the floodies. Building such 100kWh batteries will make movement 
much easier, and as long as you maintain the ability to open the battery to 
reach the cell you'll still maintain the benefits of the small cell design 
with little cost in the overall size.

> Anyone know how many AA batteries would be required to store the same
> wattage as a pair of 6v floodies?

Speaking in generalities, as each manufacturer has different densities. 
Generally, the NiMH pack would have a minimum size of 1/4 to 1/2 the volume 
of the Lead Acid. In weight the NiMH pack would we 1/2 to the same as the 
Lead Acid. And the watts capability of the NiMH about double that of Lead 
Acid.

> We won't discuss cost just yet, I'm sure it's going to be
> prohibitively expensive to buy them all at once, but I use AAs for all
> kinds of things, and could be stocking them right now while I'm still
> planning my build.

You'll need a huge number of batteries that small. Glancing at Battery Bob's 
website it looks like AA batteries are typically rated about 2600 mAh @ 1.5V 
or 3.9 Wh. Considering 500Wh per mile there will about 120 AA NiMH batteries 
per mile. Whatever your cost that won't be cheap.

Comparatively, Lithium seems to be about 3000 mAh @ 1.5V, 4.5 Wh per 
battery, 111 batteries per mile. Not too much better, but cost from Battery 
Bob is about the same, might actually be cheaper per mile.

Since the numbers purchased will be so large it is possible that you can get 
a discount, a 50 mile range would be over 5000 batteries, that's bound to 
get a discount.
Joe 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A couple of thoughts:
Ni-MH chemistry is 1.2vpc, lithium cobalt is 3.6vpc, lithium iron phosphate
is 3.2vpc, lithium titanate is 2vpc, lithium managaneses is 2.5vpc.

You can't parrallel Ni-MH cells first before wiring in series as there is a
voltage drop right at the end of the charge cycle. This makes your BMS
_very_ complicated.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Joseph Ashwood
Sent: Sunday, 7 September 2008 5:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Bishop" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH


>> design that uses any technology? Everyone that builds anything more
>> than
>> home-built conversions seems to reach the same conclusion that small
>> cell
>> sizes are more useful. In fact, the same article cites "In March
>> 2007, GM
>
> This leads me to wonder something else... Has anybody ever tried
> building an EV to run on rechargeable AA batteries?
>
> I know this sounds a little silly at first, as it would take literally
> hundreds or thousands of batteries in both series and parallel to get
> the required amps and volts, but NiMH rechargeable AA batteries can be
> had at your local drug store, radio shack, as well as many other
> places. If you had a large enough surplus, you could have dozens of
> them laying about ready for use, and could easily build 12v 'packs' of
> batteries out of 1/2" electrical conduit.

Actually it is not silly. This same basic thought process is the reason they

are called batteries instead of cells, a cell is a single energy storage 
unit, a battery is a collection of cells.

> Anyone want to tell me why this wouldn't work?

It will work, I would recommend building say 100kWh boxes and using them 
much like the floodies. Building such 100kWh batteries will make movement 
much easier, and as long as you maintain the ability to open the battery to 
reach the cell you'll still maintain the benefits of the small cell design 
with little cost in the overall size.

> Anyone know how many AA batteries would be required to store the same
> wattage as a pair of 6v floodies?

Speaking in generalities, as each manufacturer has different densities. 
Generally, the NiMH pack would have a minimum size of 1/4 to 1/2 the volume 
of the Lead Acid. In weight the NiMH pack would we 1/2 to the same as the 
Lead Acid. And the watts capability of the NiMH about double that of Lead 
Acid.

> We won't discuss cost just yet, I'm sure it's going to be
> prohibitively expensive to buy them all at once, but I use AAs for all
> kinds of things, and could be stocking them right now while I'm still
> planning my build.

You'll need a huge number of batteries that small. Glancing at Battery Bob's

website it looks like AA batteries are typically rated about 2600 mAh @ 1.5V

or 3.9 Wh. Considering 500Wh per mile there will about 120 AA NiMH batteries

per mile. Whatever your cost that won't be cheap.

Comparatively, Lithium seems to be about 3000 mAh @ 1.5V, 4.5 Wh per 
battery, 111 batteries per mile. Not too much better, but cost from Battery 
Bob is about the same, might actually be cheaper per mile.

Since the numbers purchased will be so large it is possible that you can get

a discount, a 50 mile range would be over 5000 batteries, that's bound to 
get a discount.
Joe 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date: 1/09/2008
7:19 AM

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

LifePo4 is here and cheaper and better than NIMH will ever be and
made by small and larger companies not trying to stop EVs.
Does anyone really want to support an oil company by buying NIMH?




> matt-255 wrote:
> >
> > A couple of thoughts:
> > Ni-MH chemistry is 1.2vpc, lithium cobalt is 3.6vpc, lithium iron
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "AMPrentice" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH


>
> LifePo4 is here and cheaper and better than NIMH will ever be and
> made by small and larger companies not trying to stop EVs.

> Does anyone really want to support an oil company by buying NIMH?

Hell no!! The IDEA is to get the Goddamn oil co's out of the loop! 
Period. Only a Regime Change , maybe putting "United" back in the country's 
title as "United" States of America! EV's are a small part of the Grand 
Scheme of Things, sad to say. Getting rid of "The Best Govt. Oil Money can 
Buy." Mission Impossable or "Done Deal"? Stay Tuned.

Seeya

Bob.........still one car at a Time.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 7 Sep 2008 at 2:11, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> 
> > So basically the complaint is because large batteries are not available.
> > Now if everyone would be so kind as to look in the battery compartment of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

some info here;

http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=51&blogid=104



> ---- "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
> > News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
> > located?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jon Bishop wrote:
> > This leads me to wonder something else... Has anybody ever tried
> > building an EV to run on rechargeable AA batteries?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > Look it up and see what it says.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you get a higher voltage batteries, all the connections are still 
there, just inside the battery.

Each type of battery has a different voltage per cell, and you can't 
change that voltage. The only way to get a higher voltage is to put a 
string of cells in series.

(in fact it is technically incorrect to call a AA "battery" that. It's 
just a cell, and it should be called a AA cell. You don't have a 
battery until you have multiple cells.)

The discussion on this list is centering about the fact that right now 
it is easier to buy small cells of various advanced chemistries than a 
large battery, and we are wondering about the best strategy to build 
our own batteries out of them.

-Nate



> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi i don't really know much about all these different types of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think disharge capability is even more important to be looking at 
than capacity. We need to be able to pull hundreds of amps from these, 
and that's going to mean lots of cells in parallel. Does anyone know 
the discharge specs for F D C or AA cells foe lithium or NiMH?

-Nate



> Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I am surprized no one mentions F cells... they would allow for more
> > AH capacity per cell and less connections. that would be my choice.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Personally, I'd go with Nickel Zinc over NiMH....



> Nathaniel Martin <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I think disharge capability is even more important to be looking at
> > than capacity. We need to be able to pull hundreds of amps from these,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >
> > Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases,
> > News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Is there some place where the documentation (Patent #'s, Court Cases, 
News Articles) on Chevron not allowing large format NIMH batteries is 
located?
I have a friend who is questioning that assertation, as we can't find 
anything other than discussions on the EVDL to prove it.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 7 Sep 2008 at 2:37, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> 
> > I would recommend building say 100kWh boxes and using them much
> > like the floodies.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> --- EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Using small cells for a big job (moving an EV) is a
> > hack job. The daunting
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I bought four of these AA NIMH batteries and a charger from Wal Mart for use 
on my outside temperature remotes that are place around my house. Charge 
the batteries in the NIMH charger for the recommended time and install them 
in the temperature senders.

The temperature senders display did not display anything. Put in another 
set and it lite up for a hour and did not work. Charge the batteries again 
and the same results.

Took them back to Wal Mart and got another pack of four. Again in about a 
hour is all it lasted. In my computer mouse, they also did not last over 2 
hours. Took these Made In China back to Wal Mart again.

I went back to Duracell Copper top and the temperature senders and mouse 
still works after two months.

Why would someone get these small AH cells and gang them together for a 
series-parallel battery or pack? Just get the 200 AH 3.6 volt cells that 
are 3 inches in diameter and 8 inches long, which have large threaded brass 
bolt studs coming out each end.

I seen these cells made on the Discovery Channel. They were made in a super 
clean room with the operators anti static dust proof clothing and the 
Lithium cells were made inside a enclose machine where the operators control 
it remotely.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH




> > On 7 Sep 2008 at 2:37, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> >
> > > I would recommend building say 100kWh boxes and using them much
> > > like the floodies.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > I bought four of these AA NIMH batteries and a charger from Wal Mart
> > for use
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH




> > On 7 Sep 2008 at 2:37, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
> >
> >> 100kWh boxes
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > I bought four of these AA NIMH batteries and a charger from Wal Mart for use
> > on my outside temperature remotes that are place around my house. Charge
> > the batteries in the NIMH charger for the recommended time and install them
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > I bought four of these AA NIMH batteries and a charger from Wal Mart for use
> > on my outside temperature remotes that are place around my house. Charge
> > the batteries in the NIMH charger for the recommended time and install them
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A patent that protects an invention is at times an incentive to develope
other and better ways of achieving the same result, as example, the Wright
brothers patent on wing warping and the development of movable ailerons that
are in use today. With a market for better batteries, new and better ones
will appear, with competition to follow and prices to drop.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Chevron-vs-NIMH-tp19347210p19385104.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A patent that protects an invention is at times an incentive to develope
other and better ways of achieving the same result, as example, the Wright
brothers patent on wing warping and the development of movable ailerons that
are in use today. With a market for better batteries new and better ones
will appear, with competition to follow and prices to drop.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Chevron-vs-NIMH-tp19347210p19385104.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >I bought four of these AA NIMH batteries and a charger from Wal Mart for use
> >on my outside temperature remotes that are place around my house. Charge
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I use NiMh in my digital camera, and my wireless mouse, and both work
great. Alkalines, on the other hand, cannot handle the digital
camera, and die within a few days -- something about the high current
drain from it perhaps? All of my NiMH cells, currently, are the new
"hybrid" energizer or Sanyo ones. Lithium non-rechargeable AAA's also
work great in the wireless mouse... lasting four or five times as long
as the NiMH... but I have to throw them out when they go dead, which
is why I just rotate two sets of NiMH.

Z

On 9/8/08, Neon John <[email protected]> wrote:
>


> "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>I bought four of these AA NIMH batteries and a charger from Wal Mart for
> >> use
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chevron vs NIMH


> I use NiMh in my digital camera, and my wireless mouse, and both work
> great. Alkalines, on the other hand, cannot handle the digital
> camera, and die within a few days -- something about the high current
> drain from it perhaps? All of my NiMH cells, currently, are the new
> "hybrid" energizer or Sanyo ones. Lithium non-rechargeable AAA's also
> work great in the wireless mouse... lasting four or five times as long
> as the NiMH... but I have to throw them out when they go dead, which
> is why I just rotate two sets of NiMH.
>
> Z

My NiMh batteries for my digital camera and wireless mouse did not even work 
on the first start up on the first set of batteries I install. I had 
another four sets in the charger for over 24 hours, and one pair of these 
batteries would not charge up. Put in another set in the charger and gain 
two of them would not charge. Install in a second charger that is design for 
these batteries, and still did not charge one set of batteries. Bought a new 
charge and a set of four batteries, and that charge would not charge two 
batteries out of a set of eight batteries. This is a failure rate of 25% for 
the eight batteries I bought.

Now how long would it take to test and sort out over 20,000 of these cells 
for my EV? Lets see, you buy 20,000 and replace 5000 defected ones, and of 
those 5000 you replace 1250 and so on plus all the BS you need for them.

I ran a set of GE NI-CADS for over 15 years without any problem.

Roland 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>> Have you perhaps thought about visiting the nearest GM parts place and
>> inquiring about purchasing the NiMH pack for the Malibu Hybrid? 
>> 
>
> No, for the same reason I wouldn't try to use Prius batteries in a real EV. 
> IMO, they're too small for really practical use in that application. Yes, 
> it's been done, but it's kind of like hitching up a team of 6,000 hamsters 
> to pull a stagecoach.
>
Here's some info the Mailibu pack, from this site: 
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Chevrolet-Malibu-Hybrid.html

"A nickel metal hydride (NiMH) hybrid battery pack that is capable of 
delivering and receiving more than 10,000 watts of peak power. The pack 
consists of three 12V NiMH cassettes in series totaling 36 volts. Each 
cassette includes two 12V NiMH modules in parallel. They are located in 
the front of the trunk, taking up a minimal amount of cargo space "

Building a pack out of 36V GM Malibu packs would probably make more 
sense than out of AA cells. Anyone else find better specs on these 
packs? Specifically Ah, weight, volume and price. 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Kirk Ismay wrote:
> 
> > Here's some info the Mailibu pack, from this site:
> > http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Chevrolet-Malibu-Hybrid.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 9 Sep 2008 at 22:25, Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > Sounds like it could be a 36V pack assembled using buddy-pairs of
> > Series 1000 12V modules ... Note that the Series 1000 is a high power
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think it is useful to note that the battery packs
in OEM cars are not being sold as battery packs,
they have no reason to inflate the specs or
performance, and in fact may be inclined to reduce
them, whereas someone selling batteries will most
certainly inflate them or at best give the most
optimistic values. 

If you use only 50% of a pack capacity it can lose 50%
of it over the years and perform the same as new, and
the pack cost isn't being compared to someone selling
100% capacity (thus appears to cost half the price)

Jack Murray



> --- Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Kirk Ismay wrote:
> >
> ...


----------

