# Deep-Cycle batteries: Yeah or Neah



## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

as opposed to what? deep cycle/golf cart batteries are the ONLY way to go


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

brandon0409 said:


> I have read Pros and Cons for Deep-Cycle batteries. With Optimal conversion, Which is the more desireable?
> 
> I have read some info here that were adimantly opposed to them.


The options are 6 - 8 - 12 - 24 - 36 VDC batteries in lead acid... but the 24 and 36 are only for standard vehicle use and trucks. 
Deep Cycle are used in Marine vehicles and storage use applications due to the amp-hour (reserve time they contain). 
Deep Cycle are used in Electric vehicles for cost to storage of charge energy ratio... They are cheaper then li-ion or liFePO4 battery packs. 
The down side to using Deep Cycle lead acid batteries of any kind is weight. Each of the 18 batteries I use in my battery pack weighs about 55 lbs. and is 6VDC w/229 Ahr each (US250xc'E')... run in series I get 108VDC system that weighs 990 lbs. and takes up about 8 cu/ft. of space... HOWEVER the cost is far less for me, as an experimenter to undertake for an initial vehicle than it would be to start off with a Li-ion pack and run the risk of watching my battery pack vaporize due to a mistake on my part. The lead -acid Deep Cycle are safer as well.
And if you are considering standard batteries... my first pack was a set of six Optima Yellow Top (deep Cycle) starting batteries... 75Ahr each... I got about 15 miles at 45 mph. for a bit over $1440.00 ($US)... to use a standard DuraLast 12VDC set of batteries you might get down the driveway... coasting...


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Certainly DON'T want to use a standard starter-lights-ignition (SLI) battery (same as is used in your ICE) as a traction battery in an EV. They are not meant for deep cycles, and will die quickly if used as such.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

You also don't want any deep-cycle marine types with a cold cranking spec.

I bought a new MAXX29 125AH, from Walmart.....won't do it again.

Didn't last very long even with very carefull charging, only 3 months and 1165 miles.

And that is only discharging it <25%.

2 & 3 year old Gels are doing fine.....


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## brandon0409 (Sep 26, 2008)

Okay so if I get what you all are saying... whomever said not use Deep-Cycle batteries didn't know what he was talking about? Thanks for the carification.

You'll have to excuse me, I am dumb when it comes to batteries. 
Please clarify this: 
- So I definitely don't want Marine Batteries, or I don't want Cold Cranking Marine batteries? Or is there only one kind of Marine battery?

*Where To Buy:*
Where would I buy the standard EV conv Deep cycle batteries? I won't have to order them online will I? Or can I just go to the local Auto Zone/Western Auto/Pep Boys/etc?

Thanks for all the great info.


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

fugdabug said:


> Each of the 18 batteries I use in my battery pack weighs about 55 lbs. and is 6VDC w/229 Ahr each (US250xc'E')... run in series I get 108VDC system that weighs 990 lbs. and takes up about 8 cu/ft. of space...


I am just curious to who makes these US250xc'E' battery. Do you happen to have a website link to the specs of this battery? I did a google search for that can came up with nothing.


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## brandon0409 (Sep 26, 2008)

What will I be looking at paying for a 6v, 12v, etc Deep-Cycle battery?


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

brandon0409 said:


> What will I be looking at paying for a 6v, 12v, etc Deep-Cycle battery?



Brandon,

Me again,  , Hi! LOL


We have a very good battery dealer here in our area called Battery Specialists. Ask for Larry Hall and tell him you need a quote on Trojan batteries. I used the 1275's because I wanted a 144V pack with 12 batteries to conserve some space and weight.

His number is 864-BATTERY



Have fun......
Ben in SC


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

brandon0409 said:


> What will I be looking at paying for a 6v, 12v, etc Deep-Cycle battery?


The choice of going 6 or 12 volt is up to you and your needs. There are benefits to both (and cons). Using 12 volt batteries use less physical batteries and space. So that leaves more room in the car for a trunk and the car is typically lighter so a little more acceleration. But the sacrifice for that choice is less mileage. You can get more mileage out of 6 volt batteries at the same pack voltage. But its sacrifice is more weight and more space needed for batteries. Some times the 8 volt batteries is a decent compromise between the two, not quite as much weight in batteries but decent mileage. But again it is up to your needs of your EV. 

For me, I didn't care about the acceleration performance or trunk storage, I wanted distance. So my car has 20 6v batteries in it, I get really good mileage but no trunk space what so ever.


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_us250xc.html


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## brandon0409 (Sep 26, 2008)

Zemmo said:


> The choice of going 6 or 12 volt is up to you and your needs. There are benefits to both (and cons). Using 12 volt batteries use less physical batteries and space. So that leaves more room in the car for a trunk and the car is typically lighter so a little more acceleration. But the sacrifice for that choice is less mileage. You can get more mileage out of 6 volt batteries at the same pack voltage. But its sacrifice is more weight and more space needed for batteries. Some times the 8 volt batteries is a decent compromise between the two, not quite as much weight in batteries but decent mileage. But again it is up to your needs of your EV.
> 
> For me, I didn't care about the acceleration performance or trunk storage, I wanted distance. So my car has 20 6v batteries in it, I get really good mileage but no trunk space what so ever.


So how many miles do YOU get per charge?


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Zemmo said:


> For me, I didn't care about the acceleration performance or trunk storage, I wanted distance. So my car has 20 6v batteries in it, I get really good mileage but no trunk space what so ever.


It was the exact opposite for me. I too didn't care about "trunk" space . Range was not really important in our little city either. What I did want however was decent acceleration to keep up with the traffic and zip around places easily & quickly. My range is low (max of 20 miles at 50% DOD if you drive like a grandma on marijuana) but our city is only about 8 miles across so it's no biggy.
The next car will also be 144 volts but with lithiums for weight reduction. This should commence next week if things go to plan with tonights lottery draw...


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

If you are going with flooded batteries, you want an actual traction battery. This typically means a golf cart battery or machinery battery. This is not to be confused with a flooded deep cycle battery, which while it can handle the cycling may not be able to handle the amp loads. Same drill with marine batteries, they are basically a starting battery that can handle slightly deeper cycling.

If you are using AGM batteries then a good quality deep cycle AGM will work in an EV but won't last for as many cycles or provide quite as much range for the same weight as a good flooded traction battery.

My 1985 MR2 with 21 T-105 traction batteries has gone 66 miles on a charge at freeway speed (55mph) in a competition situation and non-optimal driving conditions (cool temperatures and a couple hills and some extra ballast (a passenger)). That was 80% DOD. I don't often drive more than 30 miles on a charge though.


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I get 60 miles per charge at a 50% DOD. Thats driving in town at 45 MPH and also down the interstate at 60 MPH. I find that the amp draw over the mileage averages out, in town stop and go pulls high amps (150 to 175 for light to moderate accel) and then levels off to a lower amp draw (60 to 70). But down the interstate, I have a higher amp draw (115 to 130) to maintain speed but no take off amp draws (well besides the first draw up to speed of course which is the same as in town). If I play with the pulse and glide method of driving, I can some times get more mileage, but I am usually on the throttle all the time. Up and down hills, I just keep it at the same throttle position. When going up the hill I loose a little speed but going back down I gain it right back (and some times more speed) and in the end I used about the same amount of amps as a flat road.

I am starting to get a little less on my pack now (around 55 miles), it has 2 years of usage and the batteries are 2003 stock (so technically 5 years old). But I drive all the way into Dallas and back without a recharge (to our EV meeting) and thats 50 miles. My normal day's driving is only about 10 to 15 miles. Another drive I do a few times a month is to a friends house which is 40 miles. So my usage is usually pretty low, I average about 500 to 600 miles a month. Usually for the states, they consider about 1000 to 1200 miles a month the norm, so I am way below the normal driving distances.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

KiwiEV said:


> The next car will also be 144 volts but with lithiums for weight reduction. This should commence next week if things go to plan with tonights lottery draw...


Must be a low jackpot... I'd figure at least 336v 200Ah lithium if it were a decent jackpot.

When you win, will you buy my DVD for $15?


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## brandon0409 (Sep 26, 2008)

But how much do these batteries cost? I haven't been able to find a cost anywhere. As in $$$.

Telnet manta, i read your post about the phone number thanks. But before I call or begin anything, I am just trying to get someinfo so that I know what to ask when I finally do.

Thanks


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

US $, retail prices in the US:

good quality flooded traction batteries: (trojan or interstate) ~ $2/lb (cost roughly proporitional to weight!)

good quality AGMs: $3-$4/lb

LiFePO4 traction batteries (thunder sky or china hi-power) $1/watt-hour not including BMS.

So I spent roughly $2500 on my pack of 21 trojan T-105's weighing about 1250lbs. a 20Kwh pack of thunder skys would cost about $20K.


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## cdtomlinson (Apr 3, 2009)

When you say Mileage, are you meaning total number of miles per charage, or total miles on a battery before it dies? I ask because I am trying to figure out a good configuration that will give me about 40-50 miles here in the hilly Ozarks that will doat least 50 mph with Air Conditioning working in a Saturn. Battery choices are new to me also.


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