# my ebike



## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

ev_nred said:


> thinke about maeking my bicycle in to an e bike
> range need: 15 kmh top spped: 15 kmh
> parts conisdered 24 Volt 450 Watt Motor, Controller, & Throttle Kit,,12 volt 12 ah (2-4) buget:$300 wath other parts do I need? srooy no pics of the donro


Depends. Do you want to do it as a kit, or do you want to go DIY? You could do it for almost nothing if you go DIY, but you'll have a lot more work to do adapting things. 

There are some kits that I've seen on sale for as little as your budget that include SLA batteries, motor, controller, etc, but I am not sure they'll actually give the speed and range they claim unless you pedal a lot. 

You can look at my project blog
http://electricle.blogspot.com 
for lots of details, or my project thread here on the forum, or over on Endless Sphere, to get some quickie looks at what I've done. My avatar is a not-quite-recent version of the most recent bike in the Electricle project. 

I've also done an upright bike, the DayGlo Avenger, using radiator fan motors and friction drive with roller skate wheels, which worked pretty well, considering it's very thoroughly used SLA power sources.
________
property for sale in Pattaya


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

I just found your other posts in the DIY Segway thread, where you say you don't have a bike nor can you stay balanced on one. 

Of course, you can always use or build a trike.

There are even conversion kits to turn almost any regular bike into a trike, by removing the rear wheel and replacing it with the kit that has the frame/axle/wheels/etc for the back two wheels. That would fix the balance problem, but the kits are a little pricey for me.  Choppers US might have them. 

There are a few reasonably easy trikes to build over at http://packratworkshop.com if you can weld.
________
ZOLOFT PRILOSEC NEXIUM


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

ev_nred said:


> wath I mean is thta I cant ried a normaly bike but if its electric I thinke I can maneg. can you tell me if the parts I listed above aer good. and wath other parts and tools will i needed!


I don't know if those are good parts or not, since you don't specify what brand and model they are (or where the kit comes from), or at least give a link to them on their respective websites.

There are a lot of motors, controllers, and batteries out there, and not all of them are equally good given the same use for them, for various reasons.

For instance, if you are in an area that is often wet or rainy, or worse you are in snow in regions that get salt spread on the roads and sidewalks to de-ice them, and have a hubmotor, you will either need to clean it all out regularly, or you will need to ensure it stays dry, or is sealed well enough so that stuff can't get in there. There apparently aren't many (if any) hub motors that are sealed that well, so a motor mounted somewhere higher on the bike or in a place you can seal up might work out better in such an environment. 

There are at least a couple of recent threads on the Endless Sphere forums about exactly these problems.

The other parts and tools you may need will be determined by the exact motor/controller/batteries you choose, so I can't help with those specifically until I know which ones you're asking about.

But in general you will want something to house the batteries in, if they don't come with a solution already. Without seeing your bike and it's frame, *and* knowing the details on M/C/B, I couldn't tell you what the best solution to that is, either. Some people use toolboxes on a cargo rack over the rear wheel. Some people use custom-made boxes that fit in the triangle of the central frame. Some strap them on wherever they'll fit. Some use panniers to the sides of the wheels. It depends....

Also, if you are going to carry any cargo, such as schoolbooks, projects, lunch, battery charger and extension cords, etc, making a complete solution that includes space for those and makes the bike easier to balance would be a good idea. But I'd need to know what your plans are before I can help.
________
MJ'S PLACE UPPER LAKE CA


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

ev_nred said:


> I am probebly going to add room to the crogo rack so I could put the battries in a toolboc and use the reminder of the space for my back pack.


Remember with lead, even if you are using only 2x 12Ah batteries, it will ad some significant weight, about 14-20 pounds, depending on what those specific batteries weigh. If you could afford it, I'd strongly recommend almost any other battery type.

Keep in mind that having that weight up over the wheel will make it harder to balance the bike, especially in turns. If you can add some little bags to the sides of the rack so they hang down next to the axle, and put the batteries in there, you'd be better off balance-wise. 





> btw I will be removeing the peadels (so this e-bike will be a pe bike (puer electric bike))


Check with your local laws first to see if that is allowed, because it isn't everywhere. Here in Arizona, it is not--to remain a bicycle it must have functional pedals. Otherwise, it has to be registered and insured as if it were a motorcycle or whatever, and I doubt that I could get a modified bicycle to *be* insured, and thus couldn't register it, and thus couldn't ride it. 

If you still have pedals on it that work, even if you don't use them, you'll probably be fine wherever you are, depending on the power limits imposed by your local laws, and whatever restrictions they have on where you can ride. 




> here aer the links http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24-volt-450-watt-motor-controller-throttle-kit.html


Since it is not a hub motor, you could put it anywhere in the bike you want; I don't know how hot it would get under load in your application, so you might want to find out if it is weather sealed or not, and if it is, leave it where it can stay cool. If it is not, then you'd want to build a weather-resistant box around it that still allows it to be cooled as you ride, especially if you expect snow and rain while riding. 

Same goes for the controller.

The throttle is probably just a plastic twist-grip hall-based throttle, so by nature it's reasonably weather resistant, but you might want to seal the wires and hall leads up against water if they are not already sealed (you'd have to ask them). 





> http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24vo12amphob.html


In the other thread, you said it's going to be cold where you are, right? Lead acid will not perform well in the cold unless you keep them heated. You'll probably want to set up your battery case so you can take it off the bike and bring it in with you, so it can stay warm that way, while it's recharging. 

If you can't bring it in with you, you will probably want to put a small heater in the box with the batteries and insulate the box, so that it is keeping the batteries within their normal operating temperature range (room temperature is ok, 70-80F). You should check with the manufacturer of the battery to be sure of that. 

You should also try to find out what current draw the motor might be expected to have at the speeds you want to go with the weight you want to pull with it. That will help you figure out if these batteries are large enough to do what you want. 

If you don't already know about it, you might want to read about the Peukert effect, which basically says that the faster you pull power from a battery (especially lead ones like these) the less total power you will get from them. 

Meaning, if your motor pulls say, 12A during riding, you won't get an hour out of a 12Ah battery, you'll get probably less than half that. So you would want to use larger batteries, or parallel sets together. 



> wath other parts do I needed?!? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, you're going to need something for that motor to connect to on the bike to drive the wheel. I can't tell from the image or specs whether that is a belt pulley or what kind on the motor shaft. You'd have to know what kind of drive is on the end of that shaft, and build a matching setup for the wheel (or bike drivetrain) with whatever diameter is needed to give you the speed and torque you are after, based on that motor's output speed. 

Then you'll need whatever belt it uses (or chain/etc), to run to the pulley or sprocket or gear you've put on the wheel or bike drivetrain.

Most likely it is a toothed belt, as that's what I've seen on the little scooters with that type of motor more often than chain. But it might use a small size chain, smaller than bike chain. 

It may be possible to remove the drive that's on the motor shaft and replace it with something else, too, if you wanted to drive the bike chain directly, for instance. But it depends on the RPM of the motor whether you have to or not.

You'll need to build a mount for the motor, to hold it into place on the bike wherever you choose to place it, and it will have to be strong enough to hold it there without twisting against the force of pulling the bike along.

You'll need to mount the controller somewhere, preferably in a place that keeps it dry (assuming it's not sealed) but allows cooling. 

The throttle would just mount up on your handlebars, in place of half of a grip. If you already have twist gripshifters on both sides, it might need some careful spacing of stuff to make it easy to reach and use both of them plus the throttle. 

That won't matter if you remove the pedals, if you don't use the bike's drivetrain, but you can use that drivetrain to make the motor able to run more efficiently when starting up from a stop, and to help gear it down going to the wheel.
________
INFANT WELLBUTRIN


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

Now, as to whether those parts are "good" or not, is relative. I don't know anything about that particular controller, but plenty of people have adapted Currie scooter controllers and motors to run DIY ebike projects; I've seen them around the web as I've looked for info on doing stuff myself. 

They may be adequate for running your bike; the motor certainly should be if you get the rest of it's specs from them and appropriately design your drivetrain to hook it to the wheel. 

The controller might or might not be adequate (I noted when rereading that it does say its' fully waterproof, so that part is good), partly depending on current draws your bike would have with that motor. It says "30A" but that is probably not continuous--most controllers are rated for maybe a minute at their "specified" current, and 2/3 or even only half that for any length of time, sometimes less. 

Putting a bigger heatsink on it, and/or a fan to force cool it, might help, if you ended up needing higher currents out of it for longer. 

There are definitely better components you could use, but they're probably going to be a lot more expensive, and these might well do just fine for your application. You just need a little more info about them from the sellers or manufacturers, and then figure out what kind of drivetrain you're going to design and build for it, then how much power that is going to take to run and if the motor, controller, and batteries can handle that.
________
Live Sex


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

Amberwolf said:


> Remember with lead, even if you are using only 2x 12Ah batteries, it will ad some significant weight, about 14-20 pounds, depending on what those specific batteries weigh. If you could afford it, I'd strongly recommend almost any other battery type.
> 
> Keep in mind that having that weight up over the wheel will make it harder to balance the bike, especially in turns. If you can add some little bags to the sides of the rack so they hang down next to the axle, and put the batteries in there, you'd be better off balance-wise.
> 
> ...


first off, I would like to say srroy for takeing so long to replay. I have deen very busy . thanks for all the info. but... I have some questiones I would like to ask. where can I buy the rest of the parts? where can I buy any other battieres but lead aicd? and as for the laws it says I cant ried an ebike until 16  (I am only 14) but fuck them! I am just going to build an ebike to ried up and donw my street (I am trying to persued my dad to let me go to school on it but thta will take some work.) and can you list all the tools and parts I need thanks!


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

A good ebike reference:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=21


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

lottos said:


> A good ebike reference:
> http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=21


 thanks to you and ammberwolf. with out you guys I would be at a lose right now! but I still donot now all I need to starte!


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

ev_nred said:


> thanks to you and ammberwolf. with out you guys I would be at a lose right now! but I still donot now all I need to starte!





ev_nred said:


> thanks to you and ammberwolf. with out you guys I would be at a lose right now! but I still donot now all I need to starte!


 hi! srroy for not posting  (it took a while becuse my dad thougth an ebike is not safe but now I got him on my side  ) anyways there have deen some changes since I last posted: what do you think of this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Fun_Electric_3_Wheel_Scooter_Segway_knockoff_under/

(go to link) I can easily build the frame out of wood and my dad can get the axle. other then thta the parts our the same (I have a spare bike tire so I got the 3 bike whlles and I can saw the fornt of my bike) oh and, there have been some changes on what parts I am going to use: I well be useing the *24 Volt 100 Watt Motor, Controller & Throttle Kit* from monsterscooterparts.com (link: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/razor-e100-24-volt-100-watt-motor-controller-throttle.html ) and a 7 Ah 12 Volt AGM Battery also from monsterscooterparts.com (link: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/12vo7amphoba.html ) as well as a 12 Volt 1.0 Amp Direct Connect Battery Charger (link: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/12voltcharger.html) other then thta I am going to use a #25 spocket and chain.
the reasone why I am useing these terrible parts is becues monster scoter parts shiping rates to candad are huge. I know these parts woulnt meet my requrements but what will they meet (how far? how fast? and remember I am a 13 yera old boy and am very skinny so I dont wigth much) and can I use a 12 volt battery with a 24 volt. and what about a wiring harness? can I use one thta spoused to be used with 2 12 volts? btw I am ordring the parts on monday and me and my dad made a bet thta I wount ride it druing the winter so plse hlep me win $50 (they will be spent on a key swtich for the scooter) thanks so much!


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

What's your budget?
What tools do you have available to you?


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> What's your budget?
> What tools do you have available to you?


 $200 and as for the tools here are a few: drill,saw,botls,nails,screw,screw dirvers, etc. and if you can answer the questiones above thta will be a garte hlep. and answer this one as will what charger port should I use 2 port 3 wire mabey?


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

I have been unable to see the video of the 3 wheel scooter that you are looking at, I'll try from another computer tomorrow.
With only a 100 watt motor you are going to need small driving wheels. Even with 12" wheels you are going to be under powered.
You positively cannot drive a 24 volt controller with only one 12 volt battery. You will need to have at least 2.
You might be able to use 3 batteries or 36 volts and get more power and speed out of your motor. I've seen it suggested on this site but I haven't experimented with that yet.
lead acid batteries will be the cheapest that you can get, why don't you just get some very bad and very old car batteries, take them to Canadian tire and trade them for some of their newer and not so bad warranty returned batteries? If you learn a bit about testing batteries you can get decent ones for free but they will be much heavier than you had planned but also have much more capacity. 30 AH compared to the 7 AH SLA's
I must say that I think that building ANYTHING from scratch is much more challenging that building from a kit.
I wouldn't want to try it without a welder and in fact even though I have a welder I have very limited skills using it. I would consider this project very challenging.
Bicycles can have training wheels.


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

If I were to build an ebike and I was unable to ride a regular bike for any reason, I would begin with the basics.
Number 1: I would start with a men's bike. The frame design allows you to install things like batteries and controllers low down in the bikes center of gravity.
Number 2: I would make sure that all of the functions of that bike work correctly. Especially the brakes.
Number 3: Make sure that the bike won't fall over. I would fabricate my own adult stabilizer wheels using bike parts from the dump. I might duplicate the product sold by www.stabilizerwheels.com 

(I have a welder, grinder, hacksaw, tape measure, and clamps to hold my work)

Number 4: I don't want anyone to steal my bike so I need a good lock.
Number 5: I don't want to get wet when it rains so I need fenders.
Number 6: I want to see and be seen if I ride in the dark so I need a headlight, tail light, and reflectors.

(I bought 2 - $10 big rechargable flashlights from Canadian Tire and fabricated a mounting system for them. The flashlights have both a floodlight and a three LED red light switch so they are interchangable for either front or back.)
(I bought 1/8" x 3/4" flat bar, 1/4" ready rod (redirod) and a couple of 1/4" self locking nuts from Canadian Tire, I found a plastic jug that was the right size to fit the flashlight, a scrap piece of iron pipe that was just slightly larger than the diameter of my handlebars, and I found a stretchy cord to hold it)
(I clamped the redirod to the scrap piece of iron pipe in my bench vice, and bent the redirod around it to make a u-bolt, the I cut it off with a hacksaw, filed the rough edges off with a flat file, and made sure that the nuts would thread back on. Make 2 u-bolts.
Drill a hole through the end of the flat bar just a little bigger than 1/4", then take your homemade u-bolt dip the shorter end in something wet (paint, dishsoap, oil or whatever) put the long end of the u-bolt in the hole and drag the wet end across the flat bar to mark the spot for your second hole. Drill it. 

Got to go to work I will edit more later


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> I have been unable to see the video of the 3 wheel scooter that you are looking at, I'll try from another computer tomorrow.
> With only a 100 watt motor you are going to need small driving wheels. Even with 12" wheels you are going to be under powered.
> You positively cannot drive a 24 volt controller with only one 12 volt battery. You will need to have at least 2.
> You might be able to use 3 batteries or 36 volts and get more power and speed out of your motor. I've seen it suggested on this site but I haven't experimented with that yet.
> ...


 remeber it is agianst the law to ride an ebike if you are under 16 (I am only 13) but I migth do an ebike first to see if I can hook up all the patrs. I have also change the parts thta I will be useing: the 3 changes are thta I will be useing a *24 Volt 1.0 Amp 3-Prong Battery Charger (Standard) (link: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24vo10amp3ba.html) and a 3-Prong Charger Port with 3 Wires for Razor Scooters (link: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/razor-charger-port-3-wires.html) will this parts work with the rest? and insted of useing one 12 volt 7ah battary I will use 2 5 Ah 12 Volt AGM Battery (Premium) (link:http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/12vo12amphob1.html) will this be okay? thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> If I were to build an ebike and I was unable to ride a regular bike for any reason, I would begin with the basics.
> Number 1: I would start with a men's bike. The frame design allows you to install things like batteries and controllers low down in the bikes center of gravity.
> Number 2: I would make sure that all of the functions of that bike work correctly. Especially the brakes.
> Number 3: Make sure that the bike won't fall over. I would fabricate my own adult stabilizer wheels using bike parts from the dump. I might duplicate the product sold by www.stabilizerwheels.com
> ...


I do not have the patrs do to this nor do I have the buget and the skills


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't think you will need the charger port. Your batteries need to connect to the motor, so however that connection is made should be fine.
Most of these connectors are available locally at any auto parts store. Batteries are available locally too, check wheel chair suppliers and also electrician stores because these batteries are used for emergency lights at store exits.
I'll bet you could get a better price for the charger on ebay.


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> I don't think you will need the charger port. Your batteries need to connect to the motor, so however that connection is made should be fine.
> Most of these connectors are available locally at any auto parts store. Batteries are available locally too, check wheel chair suppliers and also electrician stores because these batteries are used for emergency lights at store exits.
> I'll bet you could get a better price for the charger on ebay.


 I will use a *Razor Pocket Rocket/Ground Force/Chopper Battery Wire Harness *
*(link:http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/raporobawiha.html) will it be okay? and I need a chager port to connect the charger to the battary? I most order the patrs today! thanks!!!!!!!!! *


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

build your own harness
one thing you most certainly do not have to do is buy it today


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> build your own harness
> one thing you most certainly do not have to do is buy it today


 okay I know how to bulid a harness but it well take some time. and I do need to buy it asap becues my report card is coming soon and I am not sure if my dad will be okay with me build and ebike after he sees my marks (i dont know what they are but just in case) as well winter is coming and I want to leren to ride it befoer it snows!


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

ev_nred said:


> okay I know how to bulid a harness but it well take some time. and I do need to buy it asap becues my report card is coming soon and I am not sure if my dad will be okay with me build and ebike after he sees my marks (i dont know what they are but just in case) as well winter is coming and I want to leren to ride it befoer it snows!


 just a questione: how do you charge headway cells I mean they look like normal battaries thta are uesed everwere?
thanks btw I ordoered the parts
thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

it snowed today ;( how hard would it be to ride the bike in snow how safe?


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't ride my bike (still non-powered so far) in bad weather myself-but those who do usually rely on special winter tires for better grip on ice. It's probably easiest to grab a spare set of rims for those tires so you can just switch, pump and go.

You can find winter tires at most bike shops-if not, grab some older tires, pop some copper tacks through the tire with a drop of gasket sealer (the heads should be inside and the tips pointing towards the road) Then get strong cutters and trim the points to roughly 1/8 inch and blunt. Some DIY snow-tire makers use a single straight row, some use double-rows or patterns. If you go this route though, use heavy thorn tubes-even though the tack heads are flat and sealed there will be pressure on the tube.


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

order99 said:


> I don't ride my bike (still non-powered so far) in bad weather myself-but those who do usually rely on special winter tires for better grip on ice. It's probably easiest to grab a spare set of rims for those tires so you can just switch, pump and go.
> 
> You can find winter tires at most bike shops-if not, grab some older tires, pop some copper tacks through the tire with a drop of gasket sealer (the heads should be inside and the tips pointing towards the road) Then get strong cutters and trim the points to roughly 1/8 inch and blunt. Some DIY snow-tire makers use a single straight row, some use double-rows or patterns. If you go this route though, use heavy thorn tubes-even though the tack heads are flat and sealed there will be pressure on the tube.


thanks for the advice. as for winter what about this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Crush-All-Those-Who-Stand-Before-You-The-Environm/
I cant do this on my bike becues it is to small.


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

Instructables, my drug of choice! Too many projects already...must...not...click...link... 

That isn't a bad idea. The rear (narrow) wheel has all the traction, so it wouldn't be so hot on say, beach sand-but on snow that front wheel should be able to compact loose snow into something the rear wheel can grip. I'd still recommend a rear snow tire to handle slippage though, in case of ice.


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

order99 said:


> Instructables, my drug of choice! Too many projects already...must...not...click...link...
> 
> That isn't a bad idea. The rear (narrow) wheel has all the traction, so it wouldn't be so hot on say, beach sand-but on snow that front wheel should be able to compact loose snow into something the rear wheel can grip. I'd still recommend a rear snow tire to handle slippage though, in case of ice.


yeah but the range will shorten


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

I am thinke of allso adding one car battary can do thta. 2, 5ah and one 12 or higer


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

basujansb0110 said:


> I have not so much idea about Internal matter of ebike.
> 
> 
> i want to eager what types of energy it takes.
> ...


 it does not take much electircy to keep the bike chraged it will only incres your bill buy 5 bucks tops. srrory for takeing so long to repaly i have been attack whit way to much home work  oh and here is and update on my project I only thougth my dad order the parts truns out he lied to me  he said thta his reason was thta it is way to cooled to ride a bike anywhere. I am trying to convince him but have failed so far. as well the parts thta I wanted to use are all sold out but luckly I have got some more money now so I may upgrade to a 24 inch 250 watt hub motor (can anyone recmond one) and useing 2 7 ah 12 volt battaryes. however my bad luck does not stop there by now I am preetey sure I have out gorwn my bike. i'll try to check soon but I cant do it now becues the bike is in storge! thanks for all your hlep have a good day or night as the case may be!


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I used to ride my bike everywhere when I was younger. My back doesn't like it so much anymore, so I switched to electric bikes. I still can't ride as much as I used to though.

Anyway, when I was doing all that riding, I lived in Oregon and it was usually pretty cold and rainy. I NEVER got sick! I was in great shape and I got lots of fresh air. Any time my nose was stuffy, all that cool air cleared me right up!

Riding in the snow is no big deal. skinny tires work well on powdery snow, but you do need to be aware of where the ice is. It will land you on the ground faster than you can react to it!

Riding on hard-pack or on ice works fine as well. I do like using a studded tire for this - especially for ice. I usually just studded my front tire though. It's the one that does all the braking and turning, so it's the important one. Putting studs on the tire that makes you go will only help you get in trouble. Putting studs on the tire that makes you stop will keep you out of trouble.

If you had a front wheel drive bike, you'd be set! 

I used short dry wall screws drilled through from the inside. I had to use LOTS of duct tape and a tire liner to keep the screws from popping my inner tube.

Have fun with your conversion.


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

xrotaryguy said:


> I used to ride my bike everywhere when I was younger. My back doesn't like it so much anymore, so I switched to electric bikes. I still can't ride as much as I used to though.
> 
> Anyway, when I was doing all that riding, I lived in Oregon and it was usually pretty cold and rainy. I NEVER got sick! I was in great shape and I got lots of fresh air. Any time my nose was stuffy, all that cool air cleared me right up!
> 
> ...


thanks I told this to my dad but he is as stubron as a mule on this one.  but thanks for all the help. and have you tried a recumbent bike?


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

Inform your Dad that you agree with his decision and the weather is too nasty to ride right now...and that you and he should be spending that time ASSEMBLING that Ebike in a comfortable indoor setting so that you'll be ready by Spring! Remind him of the joys of bonding over a father-and-son project etc etc...

God I love being 42 and single. Only bonecrushing poverty, lack of time and nowhere to safely weld stand in the way of MY Ebike! 

(and skill, and patience and...)

At least I found some nice sturdy 20" wheels last week ( $5 Goodwill mountain bike with fused chain broken shifters and ruined brakes, but GOD the wheels were worth at least $70 apiece). Inch by inch...


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

order99 said:


> Inform your Dad that you agree with his decision and the weather is too nasty to ride right now...and that you and he should be spending that time ASSEMBLING that Ebike in a comfortable indoor setting so that you'll be ready by Spring! Remind him of the joys of bonding over a father-and-son project etc etc...
> 
> God I love being 42 and single. Only bonecrushing poverty, lack of time and nowhere to safely weld stand in the way of MY Ebike!
> 
> ...


 thanks I will try this but my dad works to much so I am on my own on this one


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

just and idea if I remove the peadles and the bike can not go over 32 kmh does thta make it a goped? (electirc scoter whice can be uesd on the sidewalk)


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

You might want to check the laws in your state before removing the pedals. Federal regs insist a powered bike needs to be kept under 20 MPH and can't be ridden on bike trails. Some states reclassify your vehicle as a 'motorcycle' the instant you remove the pedals, some insist on titling etc. Now where I live, the local cops will let you drive anything on two wheels without a license-pedals or no-as long as you never break 35 MPH, but insist on the full package (motorcycle endorsement, DOT tires, turn signals, insurance etc) if you do. It can be very confusing.

Now the folk here:

http://www.motoredbikes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=76

-have a entire Sub-forum dedicated to figuring out the legal status of powered bikes in the US and Canada.Most (not all) of the posters there are into ICE hybrids, but as far as I know the same laws apply to both ICE and EV for now ( air and noise pollution from micro-ICE bikes aren't legal issues yet)...


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

order99 said:


> You might want to check the laws in your state before removing the pedals. Federal regs insist a powered bike needs to be kept under 20 MPH and can't be ridden on bike trails. Some states reclassify your vehicle as a 'motorcycle' the instant you remove the pedals, some insist on titling etc. Now where I live, the local cops will let you drive anything on two wheels without a license-pedals or no-as long as you never break 35 MPH, but insist on the full package (motorcycle endorsement, DOT tires, turn signals, insurance etc) if you do. It can be very confusing.
> 
> Now the folk here:
> 
> ...


the laws are what makes me want to remove the pedals the say I cant ried an ebike untill i am 16 but if it goes less 32 kmh it is a goped


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

I see you're two steps ahead of me then-fantastic!


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

order99 said:


> I see you're two steps ahead of me then-fantastic!


thanks I guess and if your wonder I got this form the minsitry of tranasoprtiones site (on, canada)


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

good news, I got my dad to crack!! 
i just have a couple questiones befoer I buy the parts.
first has does anybody know about http://tncscooters.com I want to get the parts form them becues their price is very good. my other questione is what about the gearing the 250 watt motor I want to use has a 11 toth drive sprocket so what rear sprocket?
thanks so much!!!


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

oh and does anybody know where to get 12 volt battieres in candad for chep I mean come on monsterscoterparts.com want me to pay 66 bucks for 2 5 ah 12 volt batteres and I thinke thta is to much


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

can I use a 55 toth spokect? keep in mind thta I have no freewheel!
thanks,
ev_nred


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

hlep! befoer my dad changes his mind


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

How do you intend to use toothed sprockets without a freewheel? Are you still thinking of a pedal assist(in which case I would definitely recommend a freewheel) or are you thinking of a Direct-drive like a scooter(in which case you can get away with it-assuming no pedals)?

As far as Batteries go-I picked up two 12V 12Ah Gel-cels from a scooter shop in raleigh NC-the price was 50% off because the dealer had a "just got Lithium Packs in!" sale, but they were only $40.00 apiece even before the discount. Sadly, the US Southeast might be a bit of a drive for batteries. On a related note-the Tractor Supply store here in NC sells 12V 8Ah packs(meant for electric fences and Solar projects) for a mere $20...

May I recommend:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

For most of your design needs? I would never have picked up my first $10 radiator motor and old Goodwill bike without them! Now to stop working 7 days a week so I can start welding...


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

thanks for the quick reply!
I was thinking of removeing the chian form the peadls so thta I do not have to pedal. thanks for telling me about endless sphere I will ask a few questiones there. just one questione: how do you calculte gearing ratios?
thanks,
ev_nred
ps:good luck whit your project!


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm a little fuzzy about gear ratios myself,at least when they get into 1:3:4:8.66 etc etc.  

Seriously though-bike gears are just ratios. A large wheel leading to a smaller wheel is easy to pedal but has a low top speed, a small wheel leading to a bigger one creates high speeds but takes a lot of power. In a multi-speed bike, you can have multiple chainrings(pedals) and multiple gears(wheel). The ultimate cruising gear is the smallest chainring to the largest gear, and the ultimate climbing gear is the largest chainring driving the smallest gear. The derailleurs on the chain take up the slack and guide the chain to the gears.

The gears of a bike are measured in 'teeth'. The smallest gear that will accept a bicycle chain easily is the 11-tooth gear. The largest i've heard of being commercially made is about 66-tooth in the US(though i've heard rumors of a 78-tooth in Europe). An 11-tooth to a 66-tooth would be a 1:6 ratio for high top speed-a 66-tooth to a an 11-tooth would be 6:1, great for hills. When you hear about 2:5:4 and the like, someone's usually talking about a several gears mashed together, mutiple pulleys or chains from gears/sprockets connected to a jackshaft...multiple ratios. Just play with what suits you until you get the right speed and power.

The good news is that you aren't limited to bike gears/chains if you eliminate the pedal. You can go with pulleys and belts if you want(they slip a bit when damp but are fairly quiet) or use motorcycle gears and chain to prevent breakage(a problem if the motor is powerful enough).

I'm actually considering a Friction Drive myself-unlike the chain/gear method, you adjust the ratio simply by changing the size of the roller-the wheel size doesn't matter in this case because the same ratio of tire hits both roller and ground whether the wheel is 20" or 26". The bad news is that slippage is your enemy on a Friction Drive-if the tire gets wet or low on air you can lose traction and maybe chew a tire. On the positive end, it's highly efficent when it works, can perform well with a smaller motor, and is simple enough that even an idiot like me can build one!

Check out Amberwolf's original build-Friction Drive with two small radiator motors. The motors lasted pretty well considering the shafts weren't supported from both ends, and the tires had no special problems with wear that I recall.


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

so whit 11 toth drive sprokect to a 55 toth sprokect I will have a gera ratio of 1:5.5 I thinke thta should get me a top speed of 20-30 kmh am I rigth or wornge!
thanks,
ev_nred


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## Tm PV1 (Jun 5, 2010)

If you haven't done any modifying yet and your rear wheel is 26 inch, Currie Technologies sells a conversion kit for $400. It comes with a motor, controller, battery rack, throttle, and rear wheel (no tire or inner tube) with 7 gears and a second freewheel for the motor. I currently have an eZip Trailz which Currie sells for $500 with the same equipment as the conversion kit. It works very well and the weight of the battery isn't very noticeable to me. Here's the link: http://www.curriestore.com/116-currie-electro-drive-conversion-kit-w-plug-play-battery-pack.html. This may suit your needs if you haven't already converted your bike. I've found the specs to be true, my eZip will actually do 17 mph on a gravel road without pedaling. After about 10 miles I begin to lose hill climbing power but assist is still easily noticeable.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

Here is a good prototype.
Regards,
John


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

ev_nred said:


> just one questione: how do you calculte gearing ratios?





order99 said:


> I'm a little fuzzy about gear ratios myself,at least when they get into 1:3:4:8.66 etc etc.


Transmissions are torque multipliers, RPM dividers (except in overdrive for both cases).

For example, in a typical car you may have a 1.98:1 ratio for the gear you've selected for the transmission, and the differential may have a 3.73:1 ratio.

This means:

<Motor RPM> / 1.98 / 3.73 = rear axle RPM.
<Motor Torque> * 1.98 * 3.73 = rear axle torque.

In a motorcycle, you typically have a "primary" (from the crankshaft to the transmission) the transmission, and the "final" (from the transmission to the wheel. Let's say we have a 2:1 primary, a 1.5 gear, and a 4:1 final,

<Motor RPM> / 2 / 1.5 / 4 = rear axle RPM
<Motor Torque> * 2 * 1.5 * 4 = rear axle torque.

Similarly, you can work that simple equation in reverse, if you want to know what RPM to expect at a a speed. First you must figure out how many rotations your wheel turns per mile. This is determined by the circumference of the tire. Then it's really easy to find out the RPM at 60 MPH because at 60 MPH you cover 1 mile per minute (reducing it to RPM) so the two numbers easily lend to each other. 

So, if you have a wheel that does 600 revolutions per mile, then at 60 MPH it is turning at 600 RPM. You can work backwards to find rpm, like so, using the example above:

600 axle RPM * 4 * 1.5 * 2 = 7200 motor RPM for the 1.5:1 transmission gear ratio.

A little trickier math can help you find out how fast your motor (or pedal cranks) will turn at any speed, once you know the circumference of your driven tire(s) and gear ratios. I won't cover that here, you can figure that out on your own.

So how do you find out what the ratio is for the sprockets (which I think is the real question you have here)... it seems obvious to say, but it's simple ratio math. Fractions are ratios too, they just haven't been reduced to something that takes them "to one". Lets say we have one sprocket that is 15T on the motor and another that's 70T at the axle:

70 / 15 = 4.6666666:1

Similar, if you have a 55T at the axle, and a 70T at the crank or motor, you get:

55 / 70 = 0.7857:1 (overdrive)

Overdrive is when the power source is turning slower than the power output.

In european countries, when dealing with sprockets on things like motorcycles the specs are not written as a ratio, but instead written as a fraction based on the actual number of teeth in each sprocket.

Hope this helps.


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## ev_nred (Sep 23, 2009)

TX_Dj said:


> Transmissions are torque multipliers, RPM dividers (except in overdrive for both cases).
> 
> For example, in a typical car you may have a 1.98:1 ratio for the gear you've selected for the transmission, and the differential may have a 3.73:1 ratio.
> 
> ...


thanks, so much, all thtas left for me to do is find a bike to electfiy (summer vactions here exams are over so I can work on the bike now)


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