# Ford Probe GT Conversion for High School Project



## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

Hello,

I am converting a 1993 Ford Probe GT to electric for a high school Independent Study Project. The project includes a website. Please visit <whyte-engineering.com>. I will be updating the site throughout the conversion process. Please check it out! I'd like to get the car moving under electric power as soon as possible.

I am planning on using a WarP11 motor and Thundersky batteries; 100AH each, 50 batteries at 3.2V nominal to get 160V. With an estimated 300Wh/mile, the car would get just over 42 miles to 80%DOD.

For the controller, I am debating between the Netgain Controls WarP-Drive Controller, the evnetics Soliton1, and the Cafe Electric Z1K LV. Any good or bad experiences with any of these controllers? What are these controllers' capabilities to display real-time voltages and currents? Currently, I'm leaning towards the Soliton1 for its connectivity and availability.

Any suggestions for displays, chargers, DC-DC converters, or Thundersky Battery Management Systems? 

I have some limited auto mechanics experience, but lots of help available from family and friends who know what they are doing. I'm very excited to be able to drive an electric car!

Great forum! Glad to become a member!
Thanks


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

James,

welcome to the forum. The biggest problem I see in your plans is that you plan for very power hungry powertrain ( motor/controller ) but you have very limited power battery. TS cells should not exceed 3C during heavy acceleration, so you are limiting yourself to 300Amp battery current, while Warp11/Soliton combo can easily suck 500-600 Amps from the pack. You are saving money by using smaller batteries, but wasting it on oversized powertrain. You need to carefully choose between power and cost and find a good balance. Power is not cheap, so something has to give. 

You didn't mention expected performance of the EV, is it going to be a racer, commuter, etc? Is acceleration more important than range, given the same cost? Answers to these questions will help you choose either bigger cells or smaller motor.

I would recommend at least 180AH-200AH cells for Warp11/Soliton or Zilla combo, given relatively low voltage. Or you can go with much higher voltage, by adding more cells, hence reducing the peak current.

If you want pure performance and low range, then prismatic cells aren't a good choice. Cylindricals like Headway have high C rates, but cost more and more difficult to assemble in a pack.

Hope this helps.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi and welcome. 

That will be an interesting project to watch happen. School/college projects are always interesting as there is a good amount of learning going on around them that can be shared. I only wish my own college was as interested.

I thought about converting the same car for a short while but over here some of us call them the Ford Phallus, or a shorter word to that effect, and I couldn't face the jibes from friends.

Not sure if what I have is any better though!


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## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi, and thanks for welcoming me to the forum! It's been a busy weekend - the car is already being disassembled.

I agree with your suggestion about using larger batteries to allow for a larger 3C draw. For a goal of 50 miles to 80%DOD at 300Wh/mi choices I see are:
38 (at least) 160Ah (couldn't find 180Ah TS cells) for 120V and 480A at 3C, or
30 200Ah for 96V and 600A at 3C.

Both actually provide the same maximum continuous wattage, or about 77Hp. They also both cost about $6,500 from alliancerenewableenergy.com, which has the cheapest prices I've found: $1.075/Ah for any battery.

The car will be mostly for commuting, but that doesn't mean it won't make it to any competitions. A powerful motor/controller bought now could then be swapped into another EV project in the future. I'd like people to see this EV's performance and reliability have it dispel misconceptions about EVs' practicality.

dimitri - I like your Protege conversion. I noticed that you are using 40 160Ah TS cells with a Soliton1 and Warp 9. How much current does the car normally draw under heavy acceleration and at speed? I estimate that the Probe will also weigh around 3000 lbs when the conversion is done. A 60 mile range is very good.

Thanks for the advice!


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

The problem is that while you are increasing cell size to increase currents, you decrease voltage to keep the same pack energy and cost. By decreasing voltage you are limiting your top speed. 96V is not going to cut it for your plans of having performance EV. Even 120V is too low.

I started with 40 160AH cells, but its limiting my performance. I wish I had 45 or 50 cells. Also, my 60 mile range is to 95% DOD, and hypermiling. If I drive in performance mode, I get 40-45 miles to 80% DoD.

What I am trying to tell you is that you need more battery current AND voltage if you want performance EV. With Warp11/Soliton combo battery will ALWAYS be a weak link.

Is Ford Probe a front wheel drive? I wonder how you going to fit Warp11 in there. I never seen Warp11 in front wheel drive car, that motor is a monster.

IMHO, Warp9 has plenty of power for 3000lb commuter car. By going with Warp11 you get extra 100lb of weight and spend extra $$$, both of which coulbe better used for more battery.

In my Protege, I set the limit on Soliton not to exceed 450Amp battery current, to save the battery from early grave. I can still break the tires loose every time I accelerate, but the torque falls off at top RPM due to low voltage. I drive 50-60mph normally at 150-200Amps. I can get to 80mph, but it takes longer to accelerate due to low voltage and current rises exponentially at freeway speeds.

Hope this helps.


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## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

Using many cells of high Ah for a high voltage and high maximum Ah draw makes sense. 50 160Ah TS cells would probably do for my conversion.

A WarP9 does seem to be a more realistic option. The Probe is front wheel drive, and a WarP11 would fit, but just barely. The lower weight and cost for the WarP9 would be beneficial for the larger battery pack, and should make the conversion easier overall.

It's great to hear from someone who has already used these parts!


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## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

_Here's an update:_

We took the engine out today! Of course this was following the removal of everything else, but the conversion is going smoothly.

After a good cleaning, a manual transmission will go in with new axles as we await a Warp9, Soliton1, and evnetics throttle, already on-order. We'll also begin taking measurements for batteries.

It was very helpful to borrow an engine hoist and have some help from a local friend. Everyone I talk to about the project seems very interested, but unsure… 

And I think I'll start a thread on the Batteries and Charging Section… I'm looking for a recommended charger…


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

James,

update without pictures is not an update 

WE WANT PICTURES

Nothing looks better than gutted and cleaned engine compartment awaiting its new electric heart 

As for charger, Elcon is affordable dual voltage sealed charger, most EV shops carry those. They come in variety of sizes, pick the one that fits your needs.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

james42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am converting a 1993 Ford Probe GT to electric for a high school Independent Study Project. The project includes a website. Please visit <whyte-engineering.com>.


awesome project, and a great learning experience. I am glad to see you can combine fun with getting some credit! nice job on the website so far... Everybody here likes MORE pictures.  Perhaps you can haul in some school buddies that need a photo/video documentary project to help get images along the way?!

I think you'll find this group a great resource... I sure do.

Dan
www.envirokarma.org


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## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

Ok, pictures!










Here's the clean engine compartment. The headlight assemblies have also been removed.










From this angle it's easy to see the Fuse Box on the right and the brake booster in the middle. The mount for the manual transmission is the black piece centered in the car above the steering rack. Here's the manual transmission:










and the shift linkage:










This is the end of the throttle:










We're going to have to remove the axles from the hubs as the manual transmission requires axles of a different length.










Check out my site for more detailed info.


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## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

Yesterday the batteries and charger arrived from elitepowersolutions. I got 45 Thundersky 160Ah cells, strapped in 11 4-packs and one extra. They were sent with copper bars, flat and lock washers, bolts, and additional strapping materials. We have not tested them with a multimeter yet but will do so soon. The cells were made in January 2010.
The charger can charge up to 240V with a maximum of 20A out. It's meant to be used with 60 cells, but elitepowersolutions did not have the other version in stock (200V, 24A out). They offered to order it for us, be we took the one they had to save time.
The parts arrived on time and Rick Suiter at elitepowersolutions was very helpful in providing information.


















I was looking to buy a Warp9 and Soliton1 and I was fortunate to find that EV-Propulsion is near our location, allowing us to pick up the parts and not have to pay for shipping.
Today we drove down and picked up the Warp9, the Soliton1, and a fuse and fuse block. An evnetics throttle will be shipped to us. Mike Savino of EV-Propulsion was also very helpful. He answered all our questions and was kind enough to show us his electric Miata.

Both sellers were very enthusiastic and supportive.

Oh, and we put in the manual transmission… after some polishing... 


















More pictures of the Warp9 and Soliton1 to follow.

The parts look great! I can't wait to begin the installation...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks great! 

I love the polished transmission, hopefully with a clean engine bay it should stay that way.

Did you specify the battery grouping for fit or was that just the way they came?
I spent a day helping a friend set up his pack of 153 200ah cells.









We found that every post hole had to be retapped to clean the threads, also some of the threads were not very deep nor square.

Instead of using the bolts provided we opted for set screws and nuts as, once screwed in, the set screws would not need to be moved again and any servicing would only require removing the nut. We are hoping that would save the fragile threads in the aluminium from further wear and damage. 
Also due to the variable depth of the threaded holes not all the holes were deep enough to allow the bolts to be wound all the way in possibly leading to falsely tight connections.

We tested the pack with each string of cells only connected to its neighbour with 5A fuse wire instead of a busbar to give plenty of fuse points should things go wrong.


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## paker (Jun 20, 2008)

dimitri said:


> I never seen Warp11 in front wheel drive car, that motor is a monster.


Here's a Warp11 in a Mitsubishi Eclipse. Thanks to Mike at EV-Propulsion.


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## paker (Jun 20, 2008)

dimitri said:


> The biggest problem I see in your plans is that you plan for very power hungry powertrain ( motor/controller ) but you have very limited power battery. TS cells should not exceed 3C during heavy acceleration, so you are limiting yourself to 300Amp battery current, while Warp11/Soliton combo can easily suck 500-600 Amps from the pack. You are saving money by using smaller batteries, but wasting it on oversized powertrain. You need to carefully choose between power and cost and find a good balance. Power is not cheap, so something has to give.


Not being a professional in electricity I did rewind electric motors racing on commercial slot car tracks when I was a kid and the one thing that was always true was the bigger the motor the fewer amps it drew compared to a smaller motor. Volt for volt the bigger motor always produced more torque. I would assume that would hold true in car conversions to electric.


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## james42 (Jul 2, 2010)

Woodsmith - I didn't specify battery configuration, but like that they came in 11 manageable 4-packs and 1 more. I received extra end plates so I can strap the 45th battery. I haven't looked too closely at the threads yet, but thanks for posting your experience. I don't want to end up with stripped terminals.

I have photos of the Warp9 and Soliton1 we picked up from EV-Propulsion. The throttle also came in the mail. They look great!


















An adapter plate kit will be arriving from Jimerico this Thursday, so we're hoping to move forward with installing the motor this weekend.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

james42 said:


> ...we're hoping to move forward with installing the engine this weekend.


Putting the ICE back is a bit of a backward step isn't it????





james42 said:


>


Drool, drool!
That looks so cool!

What would be really nice on the controller design is to have the control terminals on the side as a chassis connector and have a plug that can be wired into a loom to plug in. It would look so neat then.

ETA:
I have saved that image of the Soliton for my desktop! It'll be a change from Uma Thurman for a while.


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