# [EVDL] gliders



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> 
> > No complete vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Exactly, It could be done, but it takes 2 pieces of the puzzle, a market for
these gliders (1-3 pieces a time wouldn't cut it) and desire on the part of
the automakers. There is no doubt that they could make more $ selling a
complete car, but right now, there is not an auto plant in the entire USA
(US or Japanese) running at full capacity, many are idled completely or
running very reduced line rates. Almost all the plants are still paying
their workers, even non-union Toyota has not laid off any fulltime line
workers, even at plants that have been shut down for 3 months. So right
now, they are looking for ways to sell anything and also to boost their
public opinion. It seems like if a company was set to deliver significant
volumes of EV conversions based on a new platform, they would do very well.
Automakers are very familiar with building custom vehicles, they do it all
the time. (a good example is police cars, they get custom engines,
electronics, paint and accessories, and are scheduled for short batch runs)

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:06 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders



> On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> 
> > No complete vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > And Jerry Dycus's Freedom EV -- what's the status of that one now? We used
> > to get regular updates, but now we seldom even hear from Jerry. Hope he's
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so they can issue an MCO and you can get a title.

The hard part to convince the manufactures that it is worth the re-engineering time and $$ could easily include:

1) handling a car that may have different ride heights on the assembly line (sitting several inches higher)
2) needing to include a brace to help secure the front suspension if the engine provided an attachment point to the body
3) physically moving a non-motorized vehicle off the line and onto transport (on-board winch??)
4) having more car bodies than complete drive trains
5) do you delete the computers (and which ones) in the newest cars
6) warranties?
7) (as mentioned) financing

OTOH: The manufacturer would not have to crash test or emissions test the model...so their liability "costs" could be lower.

The real question becomes is it worth their time and $$ to try to provide another "option code" when the general trend has been to minimizing options available to cut production and assembly costs? Likely it is not unless you are talking 10,000 or more units. 

I don't think a re-manufacturer would get a glider "cheaper" than a comparable ICE equipped car...OTOH, the re-manufacturer might ultimately save the costs and time to remove, understand and re-engineer a car if the OEM can give you a car that doesn't have ICE dependancies (speedo, body computers, interior changes) and is ready to accept your changes with a minimum of backtracking even if it does cost more up-front.

I am sure that with the right business case, the OEMs would do it...but you need a LOT of $$ to convince them it is worth the change when they don't even know how to sell what they are already producing. ;-)


--Randall
Concord, NC


-----Original Message-----
>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>


> >On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> >
> >> No complete vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

An analogous case is convertibles. Some brand-new, "factory" convertibles are just hard tops that are then sent to another shop to be made into convertibles. Apparently that was cheaper than a flexible production line that handles two kinds of car.




________________________________
From: Randall Van Engen <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:30:43 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders

I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so they can issue an MCO and you can get a title.

The hard part to convince the manufactures that it is worth the re-engineering time and $$ could easily include:

1) handling a car that may have different ride heights on the assembly line (sitting several inches higher)
2) needing to include a brace to help secure the front suspension if the engine provided an attachment point to the body
3) physically moving a non-motorized vehicle off the line and onto transport (on-board winch??)
4) having more car bodies than complete drive trains
5) do you delete the computers (and which ones) in the newest cars
6) warranties?
7) (as mentioned) financing

OTOH: The manufacturer would not have to crash test or emissions test the model...so their liability "costs" could be lower.

The real question becomes is it worth their time and $$ to try to provide another "option code" when the general trend has been to minimizing options available to cut production and assembly costs? Likely it is not unless you are talking 10,000 or more units. 

I don't think a re-manufacturer would get a glider "cheaper" than a comparable ICE equipped car...OTOH, the re-manufacturer might ultimately save the costs and time to remove, understand and re-engineer a car if the OEM can give you a car that doesn't have ICE dependancies (speedo, body computers, interior changes) and is ready to accept your changes with a minimum of backtracking even if it does cost more up-front.

I am sure that with the right business case, the OEMs would do it...but you need a LOT of $$ to convince them it is worth the change when they don't even know how to sell what they are already producing. ;-)



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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You can buy "new" cars at deep discounts from rental car companies that
buy them new and sell them after a year of useage, I would guess much cheap=
er than a brand new glider off an assembly line. =

So to blame and complain about automakers is just excuses for inaction.
Jack

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Electric Blue auto convertions <[email protected]=


> l.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Electric Blue auto convertions <[email protected]>
> > Subject: [EVDL] gliders
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The fact that there are no gliders other than OKA was exactly why I got onto this board to let people know we have them and have them in USA and for immediate delivery.

Instead I have received nothing but negative responses

we are making as few as 3 or 4 gliders per run so it is quite possible, but having people completing them into their own running vehicle is another story.

Each constructor seems to want to re-invent the wheel, so as a result from 46 gliders sold, not one is in running condition 100% complete and that is from 2003 till now.? Few of them (six to be exact) keep changing hands on e-bay every now and then.

That is the reality of fact, fiction and dreams - i.e. dream on, but if you want a glider tomorrow we will always have oka !

www.okaauto.com

PS: The factory makes 150 OKA ICE cars per working day.


-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Van Engen <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders



I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so they can 
issue an MCO and you can get a title.

The hard part to convince the manufactures that it is worth the re-engineering 
time and $$ could easily include:

1) handling a car that may have different ride heights on the assembly line 
(sitting several inches higher)
2) needing to include a brace to help secure the front suspension if the engine 
provided an attachment point to the body
3) physically moving a non-motorized vehicle off the line and onto transport 
(on-board winch??)
4) having more car bodies than complete drive trains
5) do you delete the computers (and which ones) in the newest cars
6) warranties?
7) (as mentioned) financing

OTOH: The manufacturer would not have to crash test or emissions test the 
model...so their liability "costs" could be lower.

The real question becomes is it worth their time and $$ to try to provide 
another "option code" when the general trend has been to minimizing options 
available to cut production and assembly costs? Likely it is not unless you are 
talking 10,000 or more units. 

I don't think a re-manufacturer would get a glider "cheaper" than a comparable 
ICE equipped car...OTOH, the re-manufacturer might ultimately save the costs and 
time to remove, understand and re-engineer a car if the OEM can give you a car 
that doesn't have ICE dependancies (speedo, body computers, interior changes) 
and is ready to accept your changes with a minimum of backtracking even if it 
does cost more up-front.

I am sure that with the right business case, the OEMs would do it...but you need 
a LOT of $$ to convince them it is worth the change when they don't even know 
how to sell what they are already producing. ;-)


--Randall
Concord, NC


-----Original Message-----
>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>


> >On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> >
> >> No comple
> te vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Evan Tuer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders


> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:05 PM, EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> 


> > wrote:
> >
> >> And Jerry Dycus's Freedom EV -- what's the status of that one now? We
> >> used
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

is it not true that you can buy a 4 or 5 yr old car reenginer it for
electric, sell the extra bits and still save thousands off what a new glider
would cost?
let alone the car companies really don't care what we want...what they want
is to just tell us what we want and for us to be happy about it.
I say spend more time doing what we can do today with out having to get on
your knees to beg a car company to make life easy for a "few" DIYers.
If someone took the time while renigering to write a good book covering that
model and needed changes then life would get more easy for DIYers.
But we all know every one of us wants something different.
so good luck
chances are when production ends for all the GM car lines they plan to drop,
those cars will fall from vouge and sell cheaper as used cars also.



> David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > An analogous case is convertibles. Some brand-new, "factory" convertibles
> > are just hard tops that are then sent to another shop to be made into
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi David and All,

Most converters bought finished cars and
removed the motor/trans, ect. Solectria bought them whole to
get parts for the Sunrises they built because it was cheaper
than buying the few parts needed like steering, airbags, ect
separately.
Now with the economy, auto companies down
one could buy many whole cars for under $10k, maybe well
under if you buy 10, to convert.
While Wayne is right if you can't, buy you
can build it yourself, it's not easy unless you have real
money preferably up front so you don't have to start, stop,
start again as funds come available. 
But starting with a Mazda3, ect one could
do well converting them to electric, selling them for
$20-25K, especially if doing 10 or so at a time.
Though this will work only for about 5 yrs
as big auto finally comes out with EV. plug in EV's on a
large scale. Most are now committed to them starting in 2010
in limited production with full production in 2012.
One good thing is they just built many
Li-ion chemical, parts plants who now in the downturn need
customers so maybe Li-ion prices will fall faster by summer
I think.


----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:05:32 -0500

>On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions


> >wrote:
> >
> >> No complete vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,,
> >no title.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders


> The fact that there are no gliders other than OKA was exactly why I got 
> onto this board to let people know we have them and have them in USA and 
> for immediate delivery.
Hi Oka Guy;

I'm interested/ I guess I couldn't run one of these at about 55-60 mph 
with a lite electrical drive train?Anything stopping me from buying a glider 
in the NYC area, like COULD pik it up in NYC dock area, trailer it home?I 
think they are cute little cars, just the thinhg for a second or "Gofur" car 
around here.PERFECT Station Car, car guyz use to drive to the TRAIN 
everyday, to get to their day jobs. Car sits in the station watching trains 
every day!Not a bad deal<g>? Guessing it would have a title and you COULD go 
to CT's DMV for the typical inspection,m that I wasn't over weight and the 
conversion was done in a neat, craftsmanship way? NOW there would be an 
interesting conversion factory setup, you bet!

> Instead I have received nothing but negative responses

Because of the Bum Rap that NEV's get! Nobody in his right mind would 
drive those things around here! They would be run over; Gem, golfcart, etc. 
Ya got to go at LEAST 50MPH!! NOT IF OKA Mobile was a decent performing 
conversion. I'll bet I could do a nice OKA conversion, right now, with a 50- 
mph top speed, 50 plus mile range, in my garage.It would appear that OKS are 
limited in speed, by US law, so I couldn't have a free hand doing one. What 
tranny does the OKA run? 4-5 speed? I would bolt say a Netgain 8" motor an 
clutch, also OKA stuff, and be good to go, using 5th on the freeway. I'm 
SURE OKA's run freeways in Russia? It's a nice ;looking little car! How much 
for one on the docks at NYC or wherer they would come in. Boston, Philly, 
Baltimore?At least I could build one for myself, for starters?Like the Red 
one!
>
> we are making as few as 3 or 4 gliders per run so it is quite possible, 
> but having people completing them into their own running vehicle is 
> another story.
>
> Each constructor seems to want to re-invent the wheel, so as a result from 
> 46 gliders sold, not one is in running condition 100% complete and that is 
> from 2003 till now.? Few of them (six to be exact) keep changing hands on 
> e-bay every now and then.
>
> That is the reality of fact, fiction and dreams - i.e. dream on, but if 
> you want a glider tomorrow we will always have oka !
OK- a lets talk? I'm guessing that they aren't street legal to do a 
conversion biz in the USA because of safety standards? Like crash testing?I 
mean for decent speeds?But if I were to do just ONE?

Seeya

Bob, in CT>
> www.okaauto.com
>
> PS: The factory makes 150 OKA ICE cars per working day.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randall Van Engen <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 8:30 am
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>
>
>
> I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so they 
> can
> issue an MCO and you can get a title.
>
> The hard part to convince the manufactures that it is worth the 
> re-engineering
> time and $$ could easily include:
>
> 1) handling a car that may have different ride heights on the assembly 
> line
> (sitting several inches higher)
> 2) needing to include a brace to help secure the front suspension if the 
> engine
> provided an attachment point to the body
> 3) physically moving a non-motorized vehicle off the line and onto 
> transport
> (on-board winch??)
> 4) having more car bodies than complete drive trains
> 5) do you delete the computers (and which ones) in the newest cars
> 6) warranties?
> 7) (as mentioned) financing
>
> OTOH: The manufacturer would not have to crash test or emissions test the
> model...so their liability "costs" could be lower.
>
> The real question becomes is it worth their time and $$ to try to provide
> another "option code" when the general trend has been to minimizing 
> options
> available to cut production and assembly costs? Likely it is not unless 
> you are
> talking 10,000 or more units.
>
> I don't think a re-manufacturer would get a glider "cheaper" than a 
> comparable
> ICE equipped car...OTOH, the re-manufacturer might ultimately save the 
> costs and
> time to remove, understand and re-engineer a car if the OEM can give you a 
> car
> that doesn't have ICE dependancies (speedo, body computers, interior 
> changes)
> and is ready to accept your changes with a minimum of backtracking even if 
> it
> does cost more up-front.
>
> I am sure that with the right business case, the OEMs would do it...but 
> you need
> a LOT of $$ to convince them it is worth the change when they don't even 
> know
> how to sell what they are already producing. ;-)
>
>
> --Randall
> Concord, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM
>>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>>


> >>On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> >>
> >>> No comple
> > te vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Randall Van Engen wrote:
> > I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so
> > they can issue an MCO and you can get a title.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tom Watson wrote:
> > Anybody notice the Nissan Quest was turned into a Villager by
> > Mercury... I don't think it was a glider but it's a similar
> > principal. Mercury just redid the interior, add their own stereo and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like what Robert wrote...

>>In a perfect world, they want you to deliver to the factory, boxcars
>>full of pallets. On the pallets will be your bench-tested powertrains.
>>Your powertrains will be bolt-up, connector-snap substitutes for
>>the powertrains they normally put in the car, and can be
>>grabbed by existing jigs and lifters.

the question is, what would it take to get a contract with {Ford|GM|Chrysler} ?

This would be a case of reversing the current model -
rather than Big 3 paying others to make parts and they
assemble them (and it's not just the big 3; my Camry
had a GM wiper motor in it. ah, that's the part that died ...
instead, the contract would be for purchase of raw chassis(es?)
and assembly of parts supplied by the "business partner"

(i.e., these guys don't know how to design cars, but
they seem to know how to assemble widgets, let them.)


What would it take to design/spec out a bolt-in power train
for them? and how much capital up front would it take
to turn the switch?

This is another case of the question,
What if we used some of that $25 Billion for new car designs....

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 3 Dec 2008 at 12:08, Robert MacDowell wrote:
> 
> > At what point in the GM-Solectria relationship did it make sense to
> > build gliders instead of pulling ICEs? I'm guessing ~500 quantity?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Miro,

Is that you?

We had a wiring fire under the dash in one of your "new" cars. No mods. I
also remember opening up the hatch and finding a connection to the tail
light made by twisted bare copper! Not even a wrap of scotch tape to
insulate it. Also where sunlight had managed to reach it, colours in the
harness were so faded I couldn't distinguish them.

I got pulled over for doing an illegal left in one of our OKA conversions
during a test drive. "Russian characters in the VIN, eh?" "yeah, yeah, I see
your R plate, but I just don't believe you". Peering in at the perforated
plastic "bandaid" style headliner: "This isn't a new car, this was made in
the 60's!" I had my covies on so had no cred. He made me sweat, wanted to
make me run and shoot me like a rabbit!

My favourite was the "mother Russia" flat pinky-red. I think it was called
"Cherry"? The cars weren't around long enough to start rusting, but I never
wanted to breathe too hard on that paint. The center console vacum-formed
abs panel that looked more like packaging from a dollar store than
automotive interior was another highlight.

But they are cute little cars and fun to drive. And the motor cradle drops
out so fast. I'd replace that harness though.

- John

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:07 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders


The fact that there are no gliders other than OKA was exactly why I got onto
this board to let people know we have them and have them in USA and for
immediate delivery.

Instead I have received nothing but negative responses

we are making as few as 3 or 4 gliders per run so it is quite possible, but
having people completing them into their own running vehicle is another
story.

Each constructor seems to want to re-invent the wheel, so as a result from
46 gliders sold, not one is in running condition 100% complete and that is
from 2003 till now.? Few of them (six to be exact) keep changing hands on
e-bay every now and then.

That is the reality of fact, fiction and dreams - i.e. dream on, but if you
want a glider tomorrow we will always have oka !

www.okaauto.com

PS: The factory makes 150 OKA ICE cars per working day.


-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Van Engen <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders



I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so they can
issue an MCO and you can get a title.

The hard part to convince the manufactures that it is worth the
re-engineering
time and $$ could easily include:

1) handling a car that may have different ride heights on the assembly line
(sitting several inches higher)
2) needing to include a brace to help secure the front suspension if the
engine
provided an attachment point to the body
3) physically moving a non-motorized vehicle off the line and onto transport
(on-board winch??)
4) having more car bodies than complete drive trains
5) do you delete the computers (and which ones) in the newest cars
6) warranties?
7) (as mentioned) financing

OTOH: The manufacturer would not have to crash test or emissions test the
model...so their liability "costs" could be lower.

The real question becomes is it worth their time and $$ to try to provide
another "option code" when the general trend has been to minimizing options
available to cut production and assembly costs? Likely it is not unless you
are
talking 10,000 or more units.

I don't think a re-manufacturer would get a glider "cheaper" than a
comparable
ICE equipped car...OTOH, the re-manufacturer might ultimately save the costs
and
time to remove, understand and re-engineer a car if the OEM can give you a
car
that doesn't have ICE dependancies (speedo, body computers, interior
changes)
and is ready to accept your changes with a minimum of backtracking even if
it
does cost more up-front.

I am sure that with the right business case, the OEMs would do it...but you
need
a LOT of $$ to convince them it is worth the change when they don't even
know
how to sell what they are already producing. ;-)


--Randall
Concord, NC


-----Original Message-----
>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>Sent: Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>


> >On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> >
> >> No comple
> te vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi EVerybody;

First off; Where's Miro? Second the Report on the OKA'S was at least 
SOMETHING about the car, Russian Quality Control? MY post of a week ago went 
unanswered. Hell, All I wanted to know is IS the OKA condemmed to just be a 
NEV? Do we NEED MORE nevs? I don't think so? ARE OKA's sold in the 
Rest-of-the-World as gas powered NEV's? I don't THINK so? Can I BUY one and 
do as I like, put a drive train in it with enough balls to keep up with 
traffic? I don't mean a Zombie? Just something that could buzxz along with 
traffic on the 2 laners?Or THINK performance. Boy! I sure like the idea of a 
NEW car to work with?

The nitty gritty here; How much? Can they be picked up at NYC port of 
entry? Any OKA dealers around HERE. COULD I actually MEET one? Not 
interested in Reno, or some other outlandish place for us least 
coasters.Maybe as a running car and DRIVE it home, pull the ICE stuff out 
and do a conversion? I'm guessing OKA's aren't street legal here?

OK that's about all for now, my Oka-ian questions? I think it is a cute 
little basic car.An electric VW beetle of a basic 'Gofur" car? Maybe an 
exemption to all the fa-de-rah about cars to Jump Start EV's getting going? 
Somebody would be envchanted enough to be ready to buy a more pricy"Real" 
electric car? A Tesla, White Star, Sunrise, other dream world stuff?

Oh. HI! John Foster! Are YOU doing OKA conversions? Wern't you doing 
"IT" cars awile back, with Dynesty Motors, IF my foggy memories serve my 
right? You can get OKA's by Transport Canada?Hell, I liked your "IT" car, 
just wanted to goose it up to highway speeds. I'm assumming your facing the 
same issues WE are down south in USA?

Seeya

Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Foster" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders


> Hi Miro,
>
> Is that you?
>
> We had a wiring fire under the dash in one of your "new" cars. No mods. I
> also remember opening up the hatch and finding a connection to the tail
> light made by twisted bare copper! Not even a wrap of scotch tape to
> insulate it. Also where sunlight had managed to reach it, colours in the
> harness were so faded I couldn't distinguish them.
>
> I got pulled over for doing an illegal left in one of our OKA conversions
> during a test drive. "Russian characters in the VIN, eh?" "yeah, yeah, I 
> see
> your R plate, but I just don't believe you". Peering in at the perforated
> plastic "bandaid" style headliner: "This isn't a new car, this was made in
> the 60's!" I had my covies on so had no cred. He made me sweat, wanted to
> make me run and shoot me like a rabbit!
>
> My favourite was the "mother Russia" flat pinky-red. I think it was called
> "Cherry"? The cars weren't around long enough to start rusting, but I 
> never
> wanted to breathe too hard on that paint. The center console vacum-formed
> abs panel that looked more like packaging from a dollar store than
> automotive interior was another highlight.
>
> But they are cute little cars and fun to drive. And the motor cradle drops
> out so fast. I'd replace that harness though.
>
> - John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:07 AM
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>
>
> The fact that there are no gliders other than OKA was exactly why I got 
> onto
> this board to let people know we have them and have them in USA and for
> immediate delivery.
>
> Instead I have received nothing but negative responses
>
> we are making as few as 3 or 4 gliders per run so it is quite possible, 
> but
> having people completing them into their own running vehicle is another
> story.
>
> Each constructor seems to want to re-invent the wheel, so as a result from
> 46 gliders sold, not one is in running condition 100% complete and that is
> from 2003 till now.? Few of them (six to be exact) keep changing hands on
> e-bay every now and then.
>
> That is the reality of fact, fiction and dreams - i.e. dream on, but if 
> you
> want a glider tomorrow we will always have oka !
>
> www.okaauto.com
>
> PS: The factory makes 150 OKA ICE cars per working day.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randall Van Engen <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 8:30 am
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>
>
>
> I agree...putting a code for "no engine" would be very easy, and so they 
> can
> issue an MCO and you can get a title.
>
> The hard part to convince the manufactures that it is worth the
> re-engineering
> time and $$ could easily include:
>
> 1) handling a car that may have different ride heights on the assembly 
> line
> (sitting several inches higher)
> 2) needing to include a brace to help secure the front suspension if the
> engine
> provided an attachment point to the body
> 3) physically moving a non-motorized vehicle off the line and onto 
> transport
> (on-board winch??)
> 4) having more car bodies than complete drive trains
> 5) do you delete the computers (and which ones) in the newest cars
> 6) warranties?
> 7) (as mentioned) financing
>
> OTOH: The manufacturer would not have to crash test or emissions test the
> model...so their liability "costs" could be lower.
>
> The real question becomes is it worth their time and $$ to try to provide
> another "option code" when the general trend has been to minimizing 
> options
> available to cut production and assembly costs? Likely it is not unless 
> you
> are
> talking 10,000 or more units.
>
> I don't think a re-manufacturer would get a glider "cheaper" than a
> comparable
> ICE equipped car...OTOH, the re-manufacturer might ultimately save the 
> costs
> and
> time to remove, understand and re-engineer a car if the OEM can give you a
> car
> that doesn't have ICE dependancies (speedo, body computers, interior
> changes)
> and is ready to accept your changes with a minimum of backtracking even if
> it
> does cost more up-front.
>
> I am sure that with the right business case, the OEMs would do it...but 
> you
> need
> a LOT of $$ to convince them it is worth the change when they don't even
> know
> how to sell what they are already producing. ;-)
>
>
> --Randall
> Concord, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM
>>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders
>>


> >>On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> >>
> >>> No comple
> > te vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In a message dated 12/8/08 7:07:57 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

John Foster


He has never bought any car or KIT from us, so probably it is one of the 
experimental cars that Dynasty butchered and then sold on e-Bay without any 
powertrains.

I do not read every post on this board or else I would not have any life !

If you have any direct questions send them to us direct, and your e-mail 
will be answered shortly, we get 100 to 150 e-mails and call per day so there is 
apparently lot of interest in OKA NEV, but orders dropped significantly since 
gas prices declined, but 2009 production is already sold out for all 
completed NEV cars.

[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) 

If you buy OKA as a KIT you have to work with your state DMV to find out 
what you need to do, every state has different requirements and regulations for 
specially constructed KIT CARS, etc.

And if you have no intention to ever sell the finished car then you may NOT 
be subject to Federal Regulations if you NEVER leave your state !!!

With 20 HP electric DC motor OKA goes 82 MPH, range of course battery 
dependent.

LADA made electric OKA's over 10 years ago.

OKA RACE with ICE is only sold for SCCA racing.

Miro Kefurt
_http://www.okaauto.com/_ (http://www.okaauto.com/) 
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place. Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

All,

>I do not read every post on this board or else I would not have any life !

As far as you not reading EVery post, or any posts, on this I can be sure!

With all due respect to Richard Furniss, who vouched for you back on 11/06/08, I've been sitting on my hands, not wanting to say anything, but when you said that A/C will not work in an EV, and you EVen had no clue that the Prius uses an electric A/C system...

You really should stop posting, and start reading the archives. Then, in about, oh, I don't know, two years, you can start posting again!
And BTW, we have had EV parts providers, who have contributed greatly to this list, be limited to one sales post per month. And you are allowed to
continue on, and on, and on, and on...
BB

>From: [email protected]
> 
>In a message dated 12/8/08 7:07:57 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 
>[email protected] writes:
>
>John Foster
>
>
>He has never bought any car or KIT from us, so probably it is one of the 
>experimental cars that Dynasty butchered and then sold on e-Bay without any 
>powertrains.
> 
>I do not read every post on this board or else I would not have any life !
> 
>If you have any direct questions send them to us direct, and your e-mail 
>will be answered shortly, we get 100 to 150 e-mails and call per day so there is 
>apparently lot of interest in OKA NEV, but orders dropped significantly since 
> gas prices declined, but 2009 production is already sold out for all 
>completed NEV cars.
> 
>[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) 
> 
>If you buy OKA as a KIT you have to work with your state DMV to find out 
>what you need to do, every state has different requirements and regulations for 
>specially constructed KIT CARS, etc.
> 
>And if you have no intention to ever sell the finished car then you may NOT 
>be subject to Federal Regulations if you NEVER leave your state !!!
> 
>With 20 HP electric DC motor OKA goes 82 MPH, range of course battery 
>dependent.
> 
>LADA made electric OKA's over 10 years ago.
> 
>OKA RACE with ICE is only sold for SCCA racing.
> 
>Miro Kefurt
>_http://www.okaauto.com/

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi John; I remenber coming up to one of yur VIVA EVents in Vancouver, 
several years ago. Meeting the "It" and enjoying the delightful hosting 
youse Canadians put up for us! Was almost ready to move in, to beautiful 
Vancouver! A loooong way from CT.We had the Rail Power hybrod locomotive 
guyz, too. I enjoyed the hell out of my visit! I soeak passable Canadian, 
too, Eh?

SOLD it whole shootin'; match to the Pakis?Well, they had the money, I 
guess? Maybe "IT" would be a run for the money for the Riva? NOW this an 
india/Paki thing that could be more fun than wars and blasting away at the 
Taj hotel in BOMB Bay? Maybe they could beef up the running gear and put 
some more ballzy drive setup for our dreamed of 60 per. A answer to the 
Fraud's Think?THEY, Ford, NEVER shoulda bailed out on the Good Souls in 
Norway, dumping them like nuclear waste, when they were getting their act 
together! I drove the Think in Montrael, was delighted! I have been lucky 
enough to have driven a fair amount of the purpose built EV's! Makes my 
conversions seem like a piece of shit! But I live with it because, DAMN 
it!!it's the only game in town!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Foster" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gliders


> Hi Bob,
>
> Wish I had your memory. Yes I _did_ work for Dynasty up to 2 years ago. 
> They
> sold the company to Pakistan recently, hoping to restart production 
> finally
> in real volume there. In Pakistan it's a big company with lots of cash, 
> lots
> of cheap labour and lots of production of steel bodied little vehicles. I
> liked some aspects of the IT's too. They felt surprisingly stable at 45mph
> (the fastest I ever got up to), but I'd be scared shitless to drive one on
> the highway. No anti-sway bar, and the CG isn't low.

But I guess it COULD be with lower battery boxes?

> We converted two OKA prototypes. One Sepex Curtis 1274, one AC Curtis 
> 1238.
> The AC one had the batteries under the back seat and handled nicely. They
> were fun to drive. Especially the 1238 which peeled its little tires for a
> few seconds on the way to 25. All I did was drop the cradle, pull off the
> tiny engines and cut'n'splice our standard GC transmission into the
> halfshafts. We put one of Randy's huge solid FNR switches on the floor. No
> computer problems! Just a big red wire for "key on". Super easy 
> conversion!
> But you can't make a real car with a GC transmission. They don't do the
> miles, don't take the torque, and I wouldn't want to spin one on the
> highway.

For sure! Make it a rear wheel drive with an old beetle transaxle?Or 
Rabbit or Jetta? Golf cart stuff won't hack it on the highway. I hope 
General Murders replaces the Golf Cart drive train in the reVOLT?

The OKA transmission in miniscule. It's for a 2cylinder disposable
> engine. Use it for a few thousand miles, and throw it away! This is why 
> they
> are looking for a "glider" market. I don't know what torque that little
> tranny would take. This car can't be much different than it's original
> design - 1972? The interior is a step up from the IT in comfort though. 
> The
> old style interior looks like a 72 civic. The new looks like 80's glam on
> the cheap.
Fron the country where the guyz that build and design Mig-24's or 
whatEVer threy are up to, now? I know they CAN build kick ass planes, Over 
There! That monster transport plane they got? Bring over a few hundred at a 
clip?

> Lots of people, especially women, looked at the cute little round IT and
> smiled, people looked at the OKA and shrugged. I like tiny econo-box cars,
> myself, but people come at them with their own history. We were going from
> the IT which at least "looked like the future" to some people, to 
> something
> which definitely looked like the past to everyone. A tiny car surrounded 
> by
> SUVs which hadn't yet reached the edge of their cliff. Transport Canada 
> was
> not enthused, they had a thing against NEVs to begin with. Luckily I 
> wasn't
> involved in the negoiations & don't know what the final result was. Our
> marketing/G-relations guy said we could put them on the road as NEVs. But
> eventually it moved from shelved to canned, and we sold off our dusty 
> little
> row of boxes with russian characters in their VINs.

Well I remenber Japanesey cars with Japanese squiggles, Er, I mean writing 
on their builders plates. NISSAN MOTORS, the rest in Japanese!Adds to the 
quaintness? Anf I can see WHY Transport Canada isn't crazy about NEV's? We 
aren't here, ether. I would be run over on the turnpike!Bad enough running 
65! which I DO drive, in a NEV. They aren't even street legal in CT as 
aren't golf carts! Be stuck between the duelies on an 18 thousand wheeler! 
Wonder if Buicks have a Chinese builder's plate as they are VERY popular in 
China, nowadaze?Puw-icks are BUILT Over There!

Seeya

Bob.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On 8 Dec 2008 at 0:00, Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:

> And BTW, we have had EV parts providers, who have contributed greatly
> to this list, be limited to one sales post per month. 

That may be another board or list of which you're a member. Below are the 
EVDL's guidelines for businesses from http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv

= = = = = 

Reputable vendors and manufacturers of EV-related gear provide a useful 
service to EVDL members. If you're one, you're most welcome on the EVDL. 
However, we ask you to follow these guidelines:

1. No advertising, please. Announce and discuss your products and 
services only in factual, value-neutral, non-promotional terms. Save the 
glowing descriptions for your own website.

2. No unprompted mentions, please. Bring your products and services up 
only when an existing conversation (thread) makes the discussion appropriate 
and natural.

3. Support users of your products and services on the EVDL.

4. To the best of your ability, also participate in general EV help and 
support unrelated to your products and services.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Or perhaps even a "Hobbyist" code.

At least in Minnesota they ask what type of propulsion exists when
registered for title.


Bernie A. Knutson




"EVDL 
Administrator" 
<[email protected]> To 
Sent by: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
[email protected] <[email protected]> 
sjsu.edu cc 

Subject 
12/03/2008 09:45 Re: [EVDL] gliders 
AM 


Please respond to 
Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List 
<[email protected] 
u> 








> On 3 Dec 2008 at 9:34, Electric Blue auto convertions wrote:
> 
> > No complete vin number, 8th number is the engine code ,, no title.
> 
> ...


----------

