# Power steering, ARGH!?



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I left the power steering pump on my 1996 Civic. I plan on attaching it to the rear shaft of my motor, but haven't yet cause I am lazy. It is somewhat harder to steer, but after 1000 miles of EV driving I am not urging myself to install it yet.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

A few of us have done this :

Equalizes the back pressure from where pump valves used to be and works on some... Do a little checking.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

For a little money you could replace the pump with an electric pump. A number of small modern cars have them and the common one that is used is from the Toyota MR2.

Personally I would either change to electric power steering or change the rack to a manual one from the same model. It would have a better gear ratio to make for easier steering.

To keep your existing rack you could remove the pump and just join the in and out pipes together on the rack.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> To keep your existing rack you could remove the pump and just join the in and out pipes together on the rack.


LOL 
Thats what I just sent..... We must have crossed on the way


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

After many years of conversions, I have found that the stock P/S pump driven by the front motor shaft works surprisingly well. I have done fords, gm, chrysler, and mazda with P/S and this has worked fine. 
The amount of motor rpm needed to build up pressure for assist is less than 50 rpm. Pretty much as soon as the motor starts turning you have assist. Everyone that has seen this on my conversions are surprised.Yes this will work for parallel parking once you start to move. Yes, you cannot have assist just sitting in one spot unless you spin the motor slightly (but you shouldn't be steering without moving anyhow)
I would suggest that anyone with a power steering donor try it this way before spending alot of time and money on electrical assist that more than likely would not be needed, and adding a drive pulley and bracket is not all that difficult on most conversions.
Oh, and yes automatic transmissions work without an auxilliary pump also!
Mike
www.EV-propulsion.com


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## BradQuick (May 10, 2008)

On my Honda Del Sol, I left the reservoir and hoses and removed the pump. I just connected the two hoses from the pump to each other. This method keeps pressure from building up in the hoses, making it more difficult to steer.

- Brad


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

I found this "how to" on depowering a Miata rack. http://flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php?x=1
They basically open the thing up and cut the piston off the rack then pack the thing with grease when they put it back together. No piston equals no oil forced to recirculate equals less drag on the steering.


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

John,
WOW ! Great find ! I'll have to save that for the future. Thats a great idea, would probably apply to most racks out there.
Mike
www.EV-propulsion.com


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## Crash (Oct 20, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> For a little money you could replace the pump with an electric pump. A number of small modern cars have them and the common one that is used is from the Toyota MR2.
> 
> Personally I would either change to electric power steering or change the rack to a manual one from the same model. It would have a better gear ratio to make for easier steering.
> 
> To keep your existing rack you could remove the pump and just join the in and out pipes together on the rack.


I thought about the MR2 pump as well, but the problem is that the MR2 is light up front and if you plan to put lots of stuff in the front (like batteries) it weighs down the front a lot adding strain to the power steering. Also, the wider your tires are upfront the more strain there is. So you may be going through MR2 pumps very often if you go that route. There's a few power steering pump kits for electric cars that would be good for this and will handle the extra weight and strain.

Also, if you do decide to go with a pump, make sure you have a good 12v dc/dc converter. They can spike 60-70amps at some points. I'd say if you don't want to go through the hassle, go with the manual steering rack!


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## jwilczek (Feb 24, 2009)

Mike, are you using the cooler lines for the power assist?




EV-propulsion.com said:


> After many years of conversions, I have found that the stock P/S pump driven by the front motor shaft works surprisingly well. I have done fords, gm, chrysler, and mazda with P/S and this has worked fine.
> The amount of motor rpm needed to build up pressure for assist is less than 50 rpm. Pretty much as soon as the motor starts turning you have assist. Everyone that has seen this on my conversions are surprised.Yes this will work for parallel parking once you start to move. Yes, you cannot have assist just sitting in one spot unless you spin the motor slightly (but you shouldn't be steering without moving anyhow)
> I would suggest that anyone with a power steering donor try it this way before spending alot of time and money on electrical assist that more than likely would not be needed, and adding a drive pulley and bracket is not all that difficult on most conversions.
> Oh, and yes automatic transmissions work without an auxilliary pump also!
> ...


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## Tom W (Jun 9, 2008)

I first went with the pulley driven PS in my Ford Ranger and it worked as expected. It ended up costing over $100 for pulley and hoses. The negatives on this system is no assist when not moving (and this is a big negative in my opinoin.) and it draws the power directly from the motor which reduces the acceleration performance.

I changed to the MR2 pump and have driven about 7K miles and it works perfectly, I think I paid $170 for the pump and a few dollars for electrical, the PS hose from the Ranger fits the pump. I strongly recommend the MR2 pump.


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

Yes, we use the cooler lines, there is a small loop behind the grill. We use the complete p/s system as stock. Same with the A/C, driven off of the front motor shaft.
Mike
www.EV-propulsion.com


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

Tom,
Electric works too, just that the power to run it has to come from somewhere-either the aux battery fed from a dc converter off the main pack or in a belt driven system there is a load on the motor using power from the main pack. As they say, six of one, half dozen of the other. Whether one or the other is more efficient is debatable, I really couldn't say.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Crash said:


> I thought about the MR2 pump as well, but the problem is that the MR2 is light up front and if you plan to put lots of stuff in the front (like batteries) it weighs down the front a lot adding strain to the power steering. Also, the wider your tires are upfront the more strain there is. So you may be going through MR2 pumps very often if you go that route. There's a few power steering pump kits for electric cars that would be good for this and will handle the extra weight and strain.
> 
> Also, if you do decide to go with a pump, make sure you have a good 12v dc/dc converter. They can spike 60-70amps at some points. I'd say if you don't want to go through the hassle, go with the manual steering rack!


My MR2 has 205 40 17 tyres up front, that is reasonably wide.

Run the pump from a small 12v battery topped up by the dc/dc converter. The battery will cope with the power spikes and the rest of the time when you are not doing much steering the battery will be recharged. That is assuming you do more straight line driving then you do parking and slow cornering.

Anyway, I am biased as I have one factory fitted and so I have to live with it.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I had a 91 accord, same body style as a 93. It had manual steering, this would be the simplest solution. After the conversion, you will probably have less weight upfront than stock, making the turning easier


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## Tom W (Jun 9, 2008)

EV -Propulsion - You are right,the power comes from somewhere but I can tell you there is definitely better performance with the MR2 pump and I can't notice any reduction in range. The belt driven pump saps the power from the motor while the MR2 get voltage directly from the batteries via the DC/DC converter. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Crash (Oct 20, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> My MR2 has 205 40 17 tyres up front, that is reasonably wide.
> 
> Run the pump from a small 12v battery topped up by the dc/dc converter. The battery will cope with the power spikes and the rest of the time when you are not doing much steering the battery will be recharged. That is assuming you do more straight line driving then you do parking and slow cornering.
> 
> Anyway, I am biased as I have one factory fitted and so I have to live with it.


That's not a bad idea... I still don't think that the pump is going to be good enough if you have too much weight on the front. It's meant to deal with a mid-engine light-weight car. Adding 400Lbs of batteries and misc equipment is a game changer for that pump. Just my thoughts on it, though. If you got a couple just lying around, then I'd say go for it. But if you're purchasing, you should do it right the first time and buy just one pump.


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## oates1324 (Oct 13, 2009)

A common trend here is looping the line back around. How does that effect the actual steering? Will my forearms be 10 inches around after driving this baby for a couple weeks? I could live with that.. i guess. 



Woodsmith said:


> My MR2 has 205 40 17 tyres up front, that is reasonably wide.
> 
> Run the pump from a small 12v battery topped up by the dc/dc converter. The battery will cope with the power spikes and the rest of the time when you are not doing much steering the battery will be recharged. That is assuming you do more straight line driving then you do parking and slow cornering.
> 
> Anyway, I am biased as I have one factory fitted and so I have to live with it.


I love this concept, but I am mechanically and electrically inept. Is the installation fairly straightforward? And is it even compatible with my existing system? I would hate to buy the $170 dollar electric pump and have no clue what to do with it haha


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

oates1324 said:


> I love this concept, but I am mechanically and electrically inept. Is the installation fairly straightforward? And is it even compatible with my existing system? I would hate to buy the $170 dollar electric pump and have no clue what to do with it haha


To be honest I wouldn't know how difficult it would be. My assumption is that it has been used by so many converters that it must be easy and well able to cope with the extra loading on the front axle.

I know that some models came with a seperate pump and rack where as others came as a unit. The seperate pump is prefered as it will keep your existing steering geometry correct. There is imformation out there on how to connect it up and what additional parts are needed I should think. I know in my car there is a 'black box' that controls the pump but it could just be a load of sealed relays for all I know.

Check this thread on another forum.


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

Clearly there are many ways of dealing with this in a satisfactory way. On one of my very heavy vehicles I just looped the line. Parking keeps my upper body in shape. 

I don't expect the extra weight is any trouble for the MR2 pump. I once used a very similar Subaru XT-6 pump on a heavy S-10 pickup. I ran a standard yellow top Optima as a 12V backup battery and ran it off of a 55A Todd DC-DC converter. (similar to IOTAs today). I connected the pump motor directly to 12V (13,8) without the Subaru factory controller. I remember the 12V system current draw FWIW:
At idle it took 15 Amps, steering it required 45 Amps, and if I hit lock the current went up to 75 Amps. 
So at idle it was like running two very powerful high beam headlight. Not negligible, but not too bad either. I used to flip the switch for it off while cruising on the freeway only to be rudely surprised when I forgot to turn it on again before the offramp.
________
hot box vape


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