# [evdl] Avcon Inlet Needed



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I recently saw a site selling the male and female AVCON parts but I 
can't find it now. The EAA lists the metal box but that's not where I 
saw it- Thanks.

mark

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

>I recently saw a site selling the male and female AVCON parts but I
> can't find it now. The EAA lists the metal box but that's not where I
> saw it- Thanks.

There is someone selling Avcon connectors, but they're ex US Electricar 
stock and are the European version.

Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

I would be interested in the European variant of the
Avcon connector, especially if either a second damaged
connector is included, or a spare power pin (rectangular)
as I have a car with a modified receptacle for the
European Avcon; the mod is to have 3 square pins in a
row, for transport of 3-phase power....
http://www.geocities.com/cor_van_de_water/USE/AVCON_modified_for_3_phase.jpg

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Compton
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:56 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED

>I recently saw a site selling the male and female AVCON parts but I 
>can't find it now. The EAA lists the metal box but that's not where I 
>saw it- Thanks.

There is someone selling Avcon connectors, but they're ex US Electricar stock and are the European version.

Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

I recommend the only remaining AVCON maker:

www.avconev.com 

They sell both the charging stations as well as the inlets.

Todd Martin
VP, FVEAA




> Mark Dutko wrote:
> >
> > I recently saw a site selling the male and female AVCON parts but I
> > can't find it now. The EAA lists the metal box but that's not where I
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Cor,

There are some European AVCON handles and inlets listed on this page:
http://www.partsonsale.com/evparts.html

Ralph


Cor van de Water writes:
> 
> I would be interested in the European variant of the
> Avcon connector, especially if either a second damaged
> connector is included, or a spare power pin (rectangular)
> as I have a car with a modified receptacle for the
> European Avcon; the mod is to have 3 square pins in a
> row, for transport of 3-phase power....
> http://www.geocities.com/cor_van_de_water/USE/AVCON_modified_for_3_phase.jpg
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Compton
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:56 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED
> 
> >I recently saw a site selling the male and female AVCON parts but I 
> >can't find it now. The EAA lists the metal box but that's not where I 
> >saw it- Thanks.
> 
> There is someone selling Avcon connectors, but they're ex US Electricar stock and are the European version.
> 
> Paul Compton
> www.evguru.co.uk
> www.sciroccoev.co.uk
> www.bvs.org.uk
> www.morini-mania.co.uk
> www.compton.vispa.com/the_named 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*



> Evan Tuer wrote:
> > All European vehicles have this connector, and all of them have it
> > connected to the pack as intended. Of course you're not in Europe,
> > but still, it's a standard
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Hi Lee,

i can answer with pictures, all french EV cars from PSA and Renault use
Marechal AVCON system:

http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Saxo11.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Saxo12.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Saxo13.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Saxo14.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Saxo15.jpg

http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Saxo.html

Philippe



2007/10/17, Lee Hart <[email protected]>:
>


> > Evan Tuer wrote:
> > > All European vehicles have this connector, and all of them have it
> > > connected to the pack as intended. Of course you're not in Europe,
> > > but still, it's a standard
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

>> The typical AVCON connection is only providing AC power to an on-board
>> charger, which then provides DC power to the battery pack.
> 
> Indeed, and the typical European Avcon connection can also provide DC
> power from an external charger. That was my point, but nobody seems
> to believe it 

http://www.partsonsale.com/avconschematcs1.html

Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Ah, thanks Paul,
I seem to have spoken too quickly, as the AC pins
apparently are two small pins, not the big guys that
apparently are designed to carry DC, which would indeed
imply the pack is directly (fused) connected to these
two pins, while the AC goes over two other pins.

It baffles me that this is such an easy way to access
the pack without any means to physically lockout access
as a simple push in the bottom of the receptacle will
unlock the mechanism to expose all pins, so there is
no guaranteed safety - not more than there is on a
"child-proofed" kitchen cabinet.
I would expect that a pilot signal would need to be
sent to the receptacle to engage a contactor which
would at least avoid nosy bystanders to get shocked.
(The pilot signal may be the contactor coil activation) 

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Compton
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED

>> The typical AVCON connection is only providing AC power to an 
>> on-board charger, which then provides DC power to the battery pack.
> 
> Indeed, and the typical European Avcon connection can also provide DC 
> power from an external charger. That was my point, but nobody seems 
> to believe it 

http://www.partsonsale.com/avconschematcs1.html

Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Cor van de Water, respectfuly, it seems clearly you are talking about a
system you are not aware of...
You can't access DC pins, never !
such system is very secure: no Male plug presence equal no contact apparent.
Only when male plug is engage and locked then contacts are accessible....to
himself contacts only as he cover totaly the female contacts.
where is the chock risk ? even a sheet of paper don't pass between plug and
receptacle.

i hope to have clarified this plug system understanding, very easy and sure
imho.
Philippe
happy Marechal AVCON plug system user since july 2000


2007/10/19, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>:
>
> Ah, thanks Paul,
> I seem to have spoken too quickly, as the AC pins
> apparently are two small pins, not the big guys that
> apparently are designed to carry DC, which would indeed
> imply the pack is directly (fused) connected to these
> two pins, while the AC goes over two other pins.
>
> It baffles me that this is such an easy way to access
> the pack without any means to physically lockout access
> as a simple push in the bottom of the receptacle will
> unlock the mechanism to expose all pins, so there is
> no guaranteed safety - not more than there is on a
> "child-proofed" kitchen cabinet.
> I would expect that a pilot signal would need to be
> sent to the receptacle to engage a contactor which
> would at least avoid nosy bystanders to get shocked.
> (The pilot signal may be the contactor coil activation)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Hi Philippe,

Since I have the receptacle on my truck, 
this is what I found:
In the bottom corners of the receptacle, sticking out from the
"flat wall with holes" there is a triangle that apparently
connects to the mechanical latch of the wall, so when you
push the triangles in (like the female plug does) then the
wall swings backwards and all pins are exposed.

Since I have no plug, this was the only way I could show you 
the layout of the pins exposed as you can see in the picture.
Did you check the photo of me holding the receptacle in so
all pins are actually exposed?
http://www.geocities.com/cor_van_de_water/USE/AVCON_modified_for_3_phase.jpg

I bet you can easily do this on your vehicle as well.
Note that the "wall with holes" has another sliding plate
behind it to cover the pins when the triangles are extended,
otherwise you can touch the pins through the large holes.
You see this that as soon as you push the triangles down
to unlatch the receptacle, the pins will show as they a
located immediately behind the plate and the holes are large.

One the receptacle is unlatched, it is easy to hold it down
so you can then measure if there is indeed battery pack
voltage on the large pins, that will prove the matter....

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:10 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED

Cor van de Water, respectfuly, it seems clearly you are talking about a system you are not aware of...
You can't access DC pins, never !
such system is very secure: no Male plug presence equal no contact apparent.
Only when male plug is engage and locked then contacts are accessible....to himself contacts only as he cover totaly the female contacts.
where is the chock risk ? even a sheet of paper don't pass between plug and receptacle.

i hope to have clarified this plug system understanding, very easy and sure imho.
Philippe
happy Marechal AVCON plug system user since july 2000


2007/10/19, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>:
>
> Ah, thanks Paul,
> I seem to have spoken too quickly, as the AC pins apparently are two 
> small pins, not the big guys that apparently are designed to carry DC, 
> which would indeed imply the pack is directly (fused) connected to 
> these two pins, while the AC goes over two other pins.
>
> It baffles me that this is such an easy way to access the pack without 
> any means to physically lockout access as a simple push in the bottom 
> of the receptacle will unlock the mechanism to expose all pins, so 
> there is no guaranteed safety - not more than there is on a 
> "child-proofed" kitchen cabinet.
> I would expect that a pilot signal would need to be sent to the 
> receptacle to engage a contactor which would at least avoid nosy 
> bystanders to get shocked.
> (The pilot signal may be the contactor coil activation)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
>
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

My apologyze i didn't had seen this picture and known you had the same
system...
for me this is acceptable as on our cars, when car is closed you can't open
charging door but you are right when it's unlocked you can manually act as
if your hand was the plug...
same as putting cisors in wall plug imho but yes it's possible...this didn't
significate system is not sure, just you can always suicide yourself if you
really want to ;^)


2007/10/19, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>:
>
> Hi Philippe,
>
> Since I have the receptacle on my truck,
> this is what I found:
> In the bottom corners of the receptacle, sticking out from the
> "flat wall with holes" there is a triangle that apparently
> connects to the mechanical latch of the wall, so when you
> push the triangles in (like the female plug does) then the
> wall swings backwards and all pins are exposed.
>
> Since I have no plug, this was the only way I could show you
> the layout of the pins exposed as you can see in the picture.
> Did you check the photo of me holding the receptacle in so
> all pins are actually exposed?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/cor_van_de_water/USE/AVCON_modified_for_3_phase.jpg
>
> I bet you can easily do this on your vehicle as well.
> Note that the "wall with holes" has another sliding plate
> behind it to cover the pins when the triangles are extended,
> otherwise you can touch the pins through the large holes.
> You see this that as soon as you push the triangles down
> to unlatch the receptacle, the pins will show as they a
> located immediately behind the plate and the holes are large.
>
> One the receptacle is unlatched, it is easy to hold it down
> so you can then measure if there is indeed battery pack
> voltage on the large pins, that will prove the matter....
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Dear All,

Cor's "Avcon" connection is very much a hand-modified set-up: maybe not a
"one-off" but I haven't seen it anywhere else other than that particular
model for a V2G application, since the bi-directional three-phase transfer
is higher powered than anything that the Avcon/Mar=E9chal systems were
designed to handle! It is otherwise the standard European Mar=E9chal
connector but with what would be the earth pin replaced by the third
rectangular contact (and the earth where the neutral would be?)

The (standard) Euro version was given 4 AC connections for a 230V (220-240V)
single phase or 400V three-phase connection, matching the normal supplies
found in most of Europe. The other similar terminals (A,G,K,L) are for the
connector presence detection, signal ground, and 2 for serial comms
respectively (although PSA cars never used the L line, it is provided since
the protocol otherwise follows a similar standard as for OBD diagnostic
connections) The AC and signal terminals are rated at 20A. The earth
terminal is larger which I think is the same size as used for the
single-phase AC connections on the STANDARD US Avcon version for 32A
single-phase ONLY since three-phase is less commonly available. The two
large rectangular contacts are the DC "bus." The US and Euro versions are
similar but not incompatible!

In Europe an AC-only connector can be wired with neutral and three phases
and a vehicle will take just single-phase if that is all it can use.
Three-phase can give up to 14kW. [Note: Three-phase with neutral supplies
via a socket are hard to find in the UK compared to other parts of Europe.
Socketed three-phase (without neutral) anywhere is scarce, usually favouring
hard-wiring of pumps, vehicle lifts etc.]

The connector supplied with most vehicles has just Neutral, Phase, Earth, A
and G. A-G are linked to provide the "connector present" signal to the
vehicle as the start inhibit. Cables for use with the French public
charging points (that originally used a plug/socket compatible with the
domestic standard) incorporated an extra pilot core via a diode and resistor
connected to A/G in the Mar=E9chal handle and had an earthed braided screen.
Most other countries replaced this cable with standard H07-RNF neoprene
sheathed, rubber insulated cable [ed: screened cable should have been
adopted as standard IMHO]

When using the off-board rapid chargers, the vehicle basically controls the
off-board hardware much as if it were onboard. Real world chargers
reportedly take quite a while to start the charge process.

The Mar=E9chal inlet CAN (easily) be defeated by hand to expose the termina=
ls:
I think that it is a failing of the vehicle designers that the DC terminals
are wired directly to the DC bus without using a contactor. The fact that
you can defeat it "without the use of a tool" is a basic "standards"
failing! The centrally locked flap is really not a sufficient "barrier."
But as Philippe says anyone who really wants to commit suicide with a
vehicle, even someone else's, will find a way!

Not all the PSA (Peugeot/Citroen) EVs did use the DC connections. There are
a few cars out there (maybe exclusively some Citroen Saxo models) that
don't, probably as part of a budget spec model, probably for fleet customers
where the vehicles would never be expected to use rapid charging. Not sure
if the inlets had the DC terminals or not, but the heavy single-core DC
cabling from the inlet to the Sagem electronics box across the top of the
battery case is omitted. Popping the bonnet to look for the cables is the
definitive way to tell if the car is rapid charge capable or not (but there
is also a "rapid charge capable" sticker on the inside of the inlet flap!)

The inlets and connectors are still available today (I can supply) in a
variety of configurations so the fewer terminals, the cheaper they are.
"Logically" the ECU that controls the off-board charge process is separate
but in practice was likely always "physically" part of the vehicle ECU, so a
vehicle without the rapid charge wiring could most likely be upgraded by
retrofitting the "full" inlet and wiring (the inlets were filled with
compound making piece-meal repair/upgrade difficult.

Matt

-- =

Matthew TREVASKIS
[email protected]

For electric vehicles, recharging installations and accessories
F=FCr elektrofahrzeuge, neuladeninstallationen und Zusatzger=E4te
eco-drive
PO Box 255
PENZANCE TR18 9AA
United Kingdom / Vereinigtes K=F6nigreich
Tel: +44 17 36 36 12 07
Fax*: +44 17 36 36 16 77
www.eco-drive.co.uk
*Fax modem will receive faxes electronically (without using paper) 8am-6pm
UK time (0900-1900 CET) Monday-Saturday
*Telefaxmodem empf=E4ngt Telefax elektronisch (ohne Papier zu verwenden)
0900-1900 CET Montag-Samstag


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*



> Ralph Merwin <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > There are some European AVCON handles and inlets listed on this page:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

I just got my new US inlet this week from AVCON.


> Evan Tuer wrote:
> 
> > On Oct 15, 2007 5:44 PM, Ralph Merwin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Evan,

I have just received the new price list from Mar=E9chal: the Euro-spec inl=
ets
(for the vehicles) start from around =A375+VAT+handling (US$150) and the
connectors (for the charging cable) start from around =A384+VAT+handling
(US$170) depending on which terminals you require.

Kind regards,

Matt

-- =

Matthew Trevaskis
[email protected]

For electric vehicles, recharging installations and accessories
eco-drive
PO Box 255
PENZANCE TR18 9AA
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 173 636 1207
Fax*: +44 173 636 1677
www.eco-drive.co.uk
*Fax modem will receive faxes electronically (without paper) 8am-6pm UK time
(midnight-10am PST, 3am-1pm EST) Monday-Saturday


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] AVCON INLET NEEDED*

Evan,

Just to clarify, these are my prices based on the TRADE prices as supplied
to me! I am putting together an order in the near future, so if you "want
in" for a better price, let me know.

I am just waiting for them to get back to me on a price for the unlisted
"normal" handle (as opposed to the insanely expensive rapid charge handle)
with single-phase AC + 50A DC terminals, for convenient semi-quick charging
from a variety of AC supplies.

(BTW, the rogue '?' in the previous posting were the Pound symbol, should
have used GBP)

Kind regards,

Matt


-- 
Matthew Trevaskis
[email protected]



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