# Has anyone dealt with Alliance Renewable Energy?



## Russco (Dec 23, 2008)

V96400A said:


> I recently made a pack purchase through Alliance Renewable Energy and I didn't research them first. I was so anxious to finally be buying lithium batteries that I just rushed out and sent the check. I have since been trying to inquire with Richard, the owner about the BMS that they carry. He won't answer any other question than about what I need for my system and the price. This bothers me and I wish I had not sent the money, I have to wait now for 6-8 weeks to see if this guys is honest or another EV Components type. All I want is the spec sheet before I buy the BMS, so I can make sure it's worth the money. I have sent numerous emails and waited for several days before sending another inquiry.
> I would like to hear from anyone who has purchased batteries from this company and whether you got your batteries and if you had similar problems.
> 
> Yes, I spoke with Richard about a year ago and then placed an online order with him for a pack of TS lithiums.
> ...


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I'll ping him and let him know.....


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## captain stone (Dec 21, 2010)

I just ordered a TS pack and sent a check to richard 2 weeks ago as well and cant seem to reach him now by email or by phone. if any body knows him ,any help would be great.


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## jddcircuit (Mar 18, 2010)

I am very interested in how your order goes through. I am getting very close to make an order myself. Please keep us posted.


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## kickngas (Feb 3, 2011)

I ordered 49 TS 100ah batteries from him last feb and got them in less than 4 weeks. I just got a shipping confirmation today for the terminals I ordered last week. Everything is on the level for me. I hope all goes well for everyone else.


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## captain stone (Dec 21, 2010)

Well i am not one to go around bashing people but its been over a month since he(richard) recieved my money and am still trying to get my pack from him! got some lame excuse he was traveling and some body ordered the exact cells right before me,and now i am waiting for the next shippment from china,when i paid an etra 10.00 a cell to have them already.and whats up with no credit cards or paypal, we have no protection and in this case i wish i had it.I emailed him today demanding my pack or my money(money works good for me)(I was excited and in a hury,stupid me.)But 3800.00 bucks is too much to just through away! I hope he is a stand up guy who will honor my refund in a timely manner!


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

Richard responded to the last of many, many email messages I sent to him, we talked on the phone and he eased my mind by explaining why he has been unable to respond quickly. I am still not completely satisfied with the service, but I understand why it is like it is. I have not yet received my batteries (as expected). Richard did say that my batteries would be on the next shipment and I shuold get them early May. This is about what I anticipated.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Shadyyyyy. Don't like to deal with people like that.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Keegan from CALB (US Operation) has been VERY VERY helpful ...


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## jpanichella (Dec 5, 2010)

1-ev.com said:


> Keegan from CALB (US Operation) has been VERY VERY helpful ...


Agreed! He always got back to me within a day.


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

It has been almost 9 weeks since my check was cashed for my batteries. I called Richard to see what's happening with my order and he told me the shipment is in customs in Long Beach. It'll be another week or more before I see them. I think that buyers should be told in advance that it could take up to 10 weeks to get batteries. Though Richard supplied reasons for his unsatisfactory customer service, I doubt I would buy again. I'll pay more to a company that gives a dam about customers. I get better service when I buy a $4 burger, but this is almost 2K on batteries. I think I should be able to expect a prompt reply to my questions. Also, Richard said he posted on this forum in response to my original question, trying to get a hold of me. I found no such response and he had my phone number in every email I sent.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Maybe I need to start selling EV parts. I kiss customers asses to keep 'em happy and it's paid off pretty well.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

ElectriCar said:


> Maybe I need to start selling EV parts. I kiss customers asses to keep 'em happy and it's paid off pretty well.


Hey, I will go not just "extra mile" but more ... for my Customers... 
-Y


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## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

I can't believe after the EVC rip off people would use anything but a major CC for a purchase. I got an instant charge back from MC after Morrison didn't deliver. I recently bought from Calb (Keegan), had my cells 5 days after payment.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

MasterCard told me that a charge from a Chinese company would not be covered by their policy when I asked them about Calb. Many think anything they buy with their CC will be covered but it's not necessarily so you need to ASK your CC company before you purchase if you're thinking it's automatically covered.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

well, if a company is operating inside the US, like CalibPower is operating, then I would assume federal law would rule...

http://www.calibpower.com/Contact.aspx

sounds like a part of CALB, operating in the US, as a warehouse, selling batteries.


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## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

yes, my buy was in ca on usa bank




frodus said:


> well, if a company is operating inside the US, like CalibPower is operating, then I would assume federal law would rule...
> 
> http://www.calibpower.com/Contact.aspx
> 
> sounds like a part of CALB, operating in the US, as a warehouse, selling batteries.


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

You are not always protected in a CC purchase. I bought a Helmet from Langston motorsports in So Cal, the helmet was defective and broke while on my way home from buying it. I took it back the very next day. Even though Langston has a 2 week return policy printed on their receipt (with no exceptions listed) and California has 30 return law if item is still in new condition, Langston would not refund my purchase and Bank of America sided with them after my dispute. I think this is not typical though and usually CC purchases are protected.


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

I almost fell prey to trying to find the cheapest source of lithium. In the end ordered from Keegan (calb), at $1.23 a/h and $1.45 for connectors,+$195.00 freight for 28 180 ah cells. I even received them in Hawaii from California in 10 days. Otherwise if you need to buy stuff, buy from Costco/Home Depot as it is very easy to return and they even give you a smile doing so. 

francis


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

spdas said:


> I almost fell prey to trying to find the cheapest source of lithium. In the end ordered from Keegan (calb), at $1.23 a/h and $1.45 for connectors,+$195.00 freight for 28 180 ah cells. I even received them in Hawaii from California in 10 days. Otherwise if you need to buy stuff, buy from Costco/Home Depot as it is very easy to return and they even give you a smile doing so.
> 
> francis


We are looking to establish an Escrow Account for that purpose, it may cost a bit more... but make Customer sure of purchase, currently we are offering Google check-out as an option. http://1-ev.com/ts.aspx

Hope this can help 
-Youri.


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

This will be the last update regarding my original question that started this thread: 

It has been over 11 weeks since I ordered my cells and I do not yet have them.
Richard Hatfield ignored 80% of the questions I asked regarding my order and product information. 

Richard outright lied to me on three occasions and I kept all emails to prove this.
The last lie Richard told me was regarding the amount of time it would take to receive my cells; he said it takes 6-10 weeks, but the website says 6-8 weeks and he never told me at any other time that it would take longer this time. 

I have been polite with Richard up to the writing of this post, but I have lost all patience. Please help blacklist companies like this, they don't deserve business.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I am sad to see the Thundersky sources struggling to maintain reliable delivery. posting to threads like this is about the only leverage we have. I hope you get your order soon and don't have to sue like we are with the EVC/Morrison case to attempt to get our refunds. In retrospect a personal small claims suit (limited to $5k in most cases) may have a better chance of recovery than the long drawn out Civil Court route...


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

I recently bought a non battery product (about $4k) from AllianceRenewableEnergy and received it in a timely manner with no problems. And a few months ago, Aaron, a friend of mine purchased TS cells and BMS from them which he is now using.


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## jessicaba (May 31, 2011)

I should have gone through another copmany for my pack purchase. I wired money for batteries for my GEM car and it took 13 weeks to get the cells. Very poor customer service like no call backs or write backs from emails and it makes me wonder how they stay in business.


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

I was not going to update my experience with Richard until I got the batteries, but Richard began yelling and cursing at me over the phone this morning. I do not believe I have done anything to justify what he did. I should be able to get an answer to my questions. I wanted confirmation once my cells were shipped, wand he said "I'll put your name on the email list". Richard has completely refused to provide any information about when I will receive my order and has ignored most of the questions I have asked him since 2 weeks after my order was placed.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

That sucks for him. He may have felt good after that but he just shot himself in the ass with a lot of people on this site. I won't buy from someone like that. The least he can do is answer your questions. He sounds like a Casey Anthony but Casey at least gives them an answer, not necessarily the truth though, he doesn't even acknowledge your questions!


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

DEAL WITH KEEGAN (CALB US OPERATIONS) - I've NO PROBLEMS, he will call you....  http://www.calibpower.com/Product.aspx


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> ... I won't buy from someone like that.


Lets just hope that Alliance doesn't turn into another fiasco like the EVC/Morrison debacle, and that Richard eventually does deliver.....


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## cbliss (Jun 28, 2010)

V96400A said:


> I...but Richard began yelling and cursing at me over the phone this morning. I do not believe I have done anything to justify what he did. I....


Wow, he answered your call this morning. You do realize he is in a different time zone off the coast of England. I have seen him be helpful to a lot of people. I think it takes a certain personality to deal with importing, customs, shipping and all the other things it takes to get batteries to here.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

cbliss said:


> Wow, he answered your call this morning. You do realize he is in a different time zone off the coast of England. I have seen him be helpful to a lot of people. I think it takes a certain personality to deal with importing, customs, shipping and all the other things it takes to get batteries to here.


 
The telephone number lists to be in California.

Roy


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## cbliss (Jun 28, 2010)

He probably has it set to forward to his cell. I think he is due back in California in a little over a week.


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

It seems to be a real stretch that Richard would be helpful to anyone. I have a positive attitude when I am dealing with people and have never before encountered any other business who treated me like he did. I have purchased from:
newkellycontroller.com 
Cloud Electric
KTA Services
and many other less known online EV companies, all of whom gave the info I wanted, shipped my product as agreed and returned my phone calls and emails sent while they were *momentarily unavailable. I have also made countless inquiries to 30 or more EV companies around the world and have been treated better by all of them than by Alliance. 

This experience has shown me that I really should be on here talking more about the companies I have had good experiences with so they get the business they deserve. 

Here is my review of the companies I made my bulk purchases from:

Cloud Electric- K91-4003 and Kelly KDH 120/400A controller- I paid $1250 for both shipped when they had them on sale, best price ever!

Kelly- Fastest shipping from China (at a reasonable price) that I have ever seen! Their products get some bad reviews from what I think are not the fault of Kelly. It is easy for a novice to screw up a new controller, I have done it.

KTA- They always provide great support, they have tons of product information and have acceptable international shipping experience.

Monster Scooter parts- For the smaller projects, they are great.

O'Reilly Auto Parts- I bought my D34 Optima batteries from them. I paid only $1300 for 10*55Ah, 12 volt Deep cycle AGM batteries, (I got a special deal they don't often give).

I will do my best to talk more about my good experiences, it's healthier to focus on the good.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

V96400A said:


> It seems to be a real stretch that Richard would be helpful to anyone.


Hi there V96,

I know Richard Hatfield and have spent a fair amount of time with him over the past few years. I have seen him "be helpful" to a number of people, sometimes strangers at races who needed the help. He has gone out of his way and incurred personal expense to do this. I have also seen him "give aid" to EV hobbyist.

Your description of his behavior is totally uncharacteristic of the Richard Hatfield I know. He is always soft spoken and I rarely ever hear him use foul language. 

I am not in business with Richard and am not employed by him. I have done business with him. I have never seen him be dishonest.

I offer no excuses for Richard. His business is his business, not mine. But we all have bad days 

Regards,

major


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

V96400A said:


> This experience has shown me that I really should be on here talking more about the companies I have had good experiences with so they get the business they deserve.
> 
> Here is my review of the companies I made my bulk purchases from:



good or bad, I tried to start separate threads for each Vendor in the 'Parts Vendors' category. I really think this is a great way for members to do a little hoework on who they are dealing with, and for Vendors to get a little feedback.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/parts-vendors-9.html


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

I thought I would update this info with the latest in my battery endeavors. I will never recommend anyone to Alliance for anything. I feel like Richard should have done more than apologize and offer a free gift of something I did not need. I never got any info on his BMS, but I did go through another company for a mini BMS. I am just installed the BMS on my pack of TS LYP40AHA. I purchased the distributed mini bms from Lithium Storage. Mike was the person I dealt with and he did what business owners should do. He answered all the questions promptly and shipped the product as he claimed he would. Before I found the minibms, I tried the cell log 8s to monitor the cells and they ended up being a waste of time. They are cool in theory but not practical. Two of them stopped working and I could not get any help from banana hobby to find out why. I killed one cell and all the others are balanced and working out in a test bicycle pusher trailer that I made.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

I can say that my experience with Alliance Renewable Energy is the same. I ordered batteries in July 2010 and was told they would arrive in September. I kept getting no answer from every form of contact (email and telephone). Usually after weeks of trying he'd give a new estimate a month away. Then when that date passed, I'd go through the same contact issues again. I eventually got my cells in February 2011, but that is far too long to stress about a $7500 order of batteries. In the end the box of batteries came from Balqon in Los Angeles. I've since contacted them by phone and email and they are far more responsive. Future business for me will be with Balqon and not Alliance. I can't argue that Richard is a nice guy...he seems like he is...but his customer service is awful. If he wants to stay in the battery sales business he needs to hire a full time customer service rep to stay in contact with people who have orders.


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## hybridpropulsion (Apr 13, 2012)

I placed an order in December for some Thundersky 260AHr batteries. Didn't get my order confirmed until January 23 and I've been waiting for the batteries ever since. Richard doesn't seem to be taking phone calls anymore and doesn't respond to emails. I also should have known this was a shady operation when they wouldn't accept PayPal or any credit cards. 

I'm looking for alternate supplers now. Unfortunately we are only interested in 260AHr to 1000AHr batteries, so finding someone who stocks is really difficult. Also, keeping a large inventory is prohibitive since we don't know the mix or size we will need. Our systems range from 48 volts to 480 volts.


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## V96400A (Mar 13, 2011)

Yes, unfortunately, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who stocks those sizes. You may want to talk with Wistar at KTA, he doesn't stock the cells, but let him know what you're after and see what happens. He actually has great prices on GBS cells, which I don't know much about, other than that Wistar only supplies parts he believes to be robust. I plan on buying a pack of them (4*20Ah) to try out. For the 20Ah cells, Wistar told me to order about 2-3 weeks before I need them, but I'm not sure about the sizes you need. I want to be a supplier myself, but lack the capitol to get started right now. I am really disappointed with the problems we go through trying to get batteries, even though it's worth it to me, most of it is unnecessary. The information I gave about KTA is current (as of April 11 2012). 
Are you doing hybrid to plugin-hybrid conversions or extending electric range of hybrids (just guessing based on your screen name and the high voltage)?


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## hybridpropulsion (Apr 13, 2012)

I heard from Richard today and he says my batteries have been shipped. I've got my fingers crossed and I'll let you know what happens.

It's absolutely true, however, that buying batteries with confidence is something that could really pour cold water on this market. We've been dealing with the biggest Odyssey and Victron telecom-style batteries so far. It's also trivial and fast to buy them. We have found, however, that in long serial strings, that battery balancing is at least as critical as with lithium and needs a much beefier balancer.

The AGMs they have a lot going for them except for AHr/Kg and to a lesser extent AHr/unit volume. Fortunately in many of our installations this is not that much of an issue. As a matter of fact, in one project, a 120 foot schooner with two 200kW motors, the weight is actually an advantage. The batteries are all lined up in the keel ("deadwood") as ballast. 

I'm going to be a lot more cautious about my lithium purchases in the future. From what I can see, the blame lies not with the Chinese but with the flakey importers in this country.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi there I have dealt with Richard at Alliance Renewable Energy and know exactly what you are going through, I can confirm my batteries have landed, I know while waiting I wanted to hear if anyone else had successfully received batteries so I hope this helps.


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## HYPRDRV (Aug 20, 2009)

Guys,
I'm looking at importing batteries from China and have a few points to make and questions.
Importing from China is a pain in the ass. I have a direct line and agent in China and just getting info from a company there has been a hassle. A simple term like FOB here means something entirely different there. Working out the details for shipping and the cost to be able to give a FIXED price per AH is near imposable. I plan on stocking several "normal" size batteries on the East Coast anything other than that is a special order unless it becomes "normal". Profit margins are so thin that knowing all the costs to buy and get the batteries here is paramount. 
To that end CC and Paypal can add 3 to 6% to a purchase and as noted this doesn't get you anything in most cases. As a new distributor I can understand the concern, I wouldn't want to send someone I didn't know a check for thousands of dollars either. What is the solution? I'm going to buy these Cells to stock here with my money not yours. Shipping should be within days for a stock item. Your paying the cost from my warehouse to your door so that can be determined at the time of the quote. I'm just trying to cover the bases and build a reputation of trust. 

Steve


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## LiFePO4 (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but I did it versus starting a new one.

Has anyone recently dealt with Richard? Has anyone ever tried to get a battery replaced under warranty? 

I had one battery down to about 60% capacity after 18 months (out of 114 total) and after a long drawn out discussion and providing all of the "proof" that I did not abuse the cell, I finally sent it to him (he claimed he needed to see it). Now nothing, nada, zip...he has my old cell and I have given up trying to contact him.

I sent him a warning today that I will now do everything I can to get his attention, and by that I mean through social websites (and it will not be pretty). I will never do any business with him from now on (and I assume he really doesn't give a crap) but I also suggest NO ONE EVER do business with him.


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