# Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Look closely for an electrical or vacuum input to the tranny that tells it =
to hold a gear at higher RPM. I had a car that I would reach down by hand a=
nd close the kickdown switch -- it would rev to redline even with gentle ac=
celerator inputs. If you find a vacuum line try drawing a vacuum on it.

Kudos to you for getting an automatic tranny to work!



________________________________
From: Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> =

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!
=

Tonight was the first time that I smelled my motor,
after driving 15 mins mostly freeway (60MPH) and
immediately after arriving opening the hood (to see
if everything was OK) and though there were quite
warm components in the (EV100) controller, the smell
came from the motor which was warm but not really hot
to the touch. Since this motor is attached to an
automatic gearbox, my expectation is that:

1. The motor is being lugged. I watched the battery
amp meter closely while driving and I noticed that
all the driving at lower speeds has the battery amps
staying below 200A. Only when getting up to higher speed
(above 45 MPH) the battery amps start to climb and at
top speed of 60 MPH the pack delivers 300A at just under
110V. (more on that later) I need to connect an RPM
counter (or repurpose one of the unused meters in the dash)
but I expect that the motor never gets beyond 2500 RPM.
The truck is definitely lacking power, so I would really like
to either convert to manual (which is a lot of work) or get
a different Diff ratio, so the motor does reach higher RPM
by the time it reaches the truck's top speed, so the EV100
controller can close its bypass contactor and give full
battery voltage to the motor.
This is an 11" GE motor so it should have enough power
even at "only" 120V pack.

2. The motor (and especially the brushes) need forced
cooling. I looked better and found a 3" hose connecting
to the motor from the controller enclosure. This means
that I really need to put the lid on the controller and
insert the fuse for the fan that pushes air into the
controller enclosure and from there into the motor.

The power at 60MPH of 300A at 110V is too high when I
compare it to the 50A at 312V that my S10 used to take
at 55 MPH constant - the S10 was 4800 lbs while this Ford
Ranger is under 4400 lbs. I already pumped the tires to =

40 PSI but I did not check their toe-in yet. Also, this
truck has not been running much in the past years, so
there may be a brake or bearing dragging, although the
truck rolls easily on level terrain.
Reason that the current is quite constant around 200A
for all the speeds below Freeway speed is due to the
automatic tranny keeping the motor speed rather constant
(probably around 1500 RPM) so the motor current
limit will cause low power into the motor, because
RPMs are low, so voltage is low so duty cycle is low
so even if the 200 battery amps are multiplied into
the 500A controller limit, the low voltage (40% duty
cycle turns 200A 110V into 500A 44V) causes the
acceleration to be very disappointing until higher
speeds are finally reached and the motor RPM climb,
so the duty cycle clims and the motor gets more power
and that is exactly what I am experiencing.
I do have the impression that the transmission is
locking (or at least it switches to the highest gear)
at Freeway speeds, so that seems to be OK although not
as efficient as a manual gearbox.
Acceleration from standstill is abysmal after the first
few feet, so that is another indication of the tranny
switching at the wrong points.
I do not think that a 1989 Ford Ranger tranny can be
reprogrammed to switch at higher RPMs but that would
probably be the best solution - keeping the tranny
continuously in "kickdown" mode (low gear to allow
the input to run higher RPM and deliver more power)

Before I dig into the (unknown to me) parts of this
truck - does anybody have experience with this and
can give advice?

Thanks!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Voltswagon
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion

That makes sense. My 40C difference was from the measured high in the
brushes. The motor case delta would be much smaller with the larger
mass, surface area, and natural air exposure.

Squirrels do have higher air-flow, but I felt mine was more than
adequate, wish I'd gone with the 3" instead. I think it's 150 CFM, not
that that means much. =


The blower really just needs to not restrict the airflow while in low
gear. =

That ensures that when stationary or in higher gear you are getting the
same level of cooling.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/cooling-my-
conversion-tp4655375p4655454.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Hello Cor,

What I did with my automatic, was to get rid of the automatic value body and 
replace it with a manual value body. This is a easy replacement, this unit 
is right at the bottom of the the transmission which is a bolt in unit.

Also when you install a manual value body, you do not need any vacuum 
modulator which is remove and seal with a modulator plug.

It is best to use a torque converter with a very low lock up rpm. My unit 
starts to move the EV at 300 rpm which gives a additional gear ratio of 
1.8:1 and becomes full lock up at 1700 rpm at a gear ratio of 1.0:1.

You have to shift it like a manual. I shift up to the next gear at about 
1800 rpm which is the sweet spot of the motor and when I reach 1800 rpm 
again, shift it again.

The starting overall gear ratio with my manual was about 19:1 in 1st and 
13:1 in 2nd. With the automatic, which adds 1.8:1 gear ratio, it becomes 
27:1 in 1st. As the rpm raises from 300 to 1800 rpm, the gear ratio varies 
from 27:1 to 16:1. I then shift to 2nd at 1800 rpm or 16:1 which is still 
16:1 overall gear ratio in the 2nd gear.

The rpm drops while shifting and when it reaches 1800 rpm the overall gear 
ratio varies to 10:1 in 2nd gear. This method keeps the motor ampere 
constant at 200 amps which is the normal running ampere of a GE-11 or 
WarP-11 motor. The battery ampere ranges from 65 to 80 ampere while 
climbing a residential steep hill at 25 mph.

Level grade driving, the motor is at about 150 amps while the battery ampere 
is 50 amperes at speeds up to 45 mph in 3rd gear. The 3rd gear ratio is 
1.0:1 and the differential is a 5.57:1 for a 6600 lb EV.

I can also accelerated starting out in 3rd gear which the motor ampere may 
go to 300 amps. The overall ratio at start is the torque converter adding 
1.8:1 x 5.57:1 = 10.026:1 which is the same ratio as in 2nd gear. After 
accelerating, the motor ampere comes back to about 150 ampere with the 
battery ampere of 50 amps.

It is best to change the differential gear ratio to at least a 4.11:1 for a 
3000 lb EV or 4.56:1 for a 4000 lb EV. My EV original had a standard 
automatic transmission with a 2.78:1 differential. In 1st gear ratio of 
2.75:1, the overall ratio was only 7.645:1 at lock up at 3300 rpm which is 
too high for a EV but works for a engine.

My EV is now a lot safer while stop on hills when I turn on the idle switch 
to keep it about 300 rpm with out using any brakes. While park on a hill, I 
now can use the PARK position and the emergency brake instead of just using 
the emergency brake when I had the manual. Sometimes I had to use a wheel 
chock as a back up.

Driving the same exact route with this unit, I may use less ah/mile than I 
did with the manual. It is great for pushing through a foot of snow and I 
can hold it going down a hill by shifting into a lower gear.

Used a manual valve body that has a Push to Start feature. Which is 
normally use for one vehicle is pushing the vehicle, will allow the engine 
or motor to turn over. This allows the motor to turn over while coasting 
down hill which allows for some REGEN action.

You can get manual valve bodies for any automatic from tci.com. Talk to the 
tech about any additional info.

Roland







From: Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

Tonight was the first time that I smelled my motor,
after driving 15 mins mostly freeway (60MPH) and
immediately after arriving opening the hood (to see
if everything was OK) and though there were quite
warm components in the (EV100) controller, the smell
came from the motor which was warm but not really hot
to the touch. Since this motor is attached to an
automatic gearbox, my expectation is that:

1. The motor is being lugged. I watched the battery
amp meter closely while driving and I noticed that
all the driving at lower speeds has the battery amps
staying below 200A. Only when getting up to higher speed
(above 45 MPH) the battery amps start to climb and at
top speed of 60 MPH the pack delivers 300A at just under
110V. (more on that later) I need to connect an RPM
counter (or repurpose one of the unused meters in the dash)
but I expect that the motor never gets beyond 2500 RPM.
The truck is definitely lacking power, so I would really like
to either convert to manual (which is a lot of work) or get
a different Diff ratio, so the motor does reach higher RPM
by the time it reaches the truck's top speed, so the EV100
controller can close its bypass contactor and give full
battery voltage to the motor.
This is an 11" GE motor so it should have enough power
even at "only" 120V pack.

2. The motor (and especially the brushes) need forced
cooling. I looked better and found a 3" hose connecting
to the motor from the controller enclosure. This means
that I really need to put the lid on the controller and
insert the fuse for the fan that pushes air into the
controller enclosure and from there into the motor.

The power at 60MPH of 300A at 110V is too high when I
compare it to the 50A at 312V that my S10 used to take
at 55 MPH constant - the S10 was 4800 lbs while this Ford
Ranger is under 4400 lbs. I already pumped the tires to
40 PSI but I did not check their toe-in yet. Also, this
truck has not been running much in the past years, so
there may be a brake or bearing dragging, although the
truck rolls easily on level terrain.
Reason that the current is quite constant around 200A
for all the speeds below Freeway speed is due to the
automatic tranny keeping the motor speed rather constant
(probably around 1500 RPM) so the motor current
limit will cause low power into the motor, because
RPMs are low, so voltage is low so duty cycle is low
so even if the 200 battery amps are multiplied into
the 500A controller limit, the low voltage (40% duty
cycle turns 200A 110V into 500A 44V) causes the
acceleration to be very disappointing until higher
speeds are finally reached and the motor RPM climb,
so the duty cycle clims and the motor gets more power
and that is exactly what I am experiencing.
I do have the impression that the transmission is
locking (or at least it switches to the highest gear)
at Freeway speeds, so that seems to be OK although not
as efficient as a manual gearbox.
Acceleration from standstill is abysmal after the first
few feet, so that is another indication of the tranny
switching at the wrong points.
I do not think that a 1989 Ford Ranger tranny can be
reprogrammed to switch at higher RPMs but that would
probably be the best solution - keeping the tranny
continuously in "kickdown" mode (low gear to allow
the input to run higher RPM and deliver more power)

Before I dig into the (unknown to me) parts of this
truck - does anybody have experience with this and
can give advice?

Thanks!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Voltswagon
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion

That makes sense. My 40C difference was from the measured high in the
brushes. The motor case delta would be much smaller with the larger
mass, surface area, and natural air exposure.

Squirrels do have higher air-flow, but I felt mine was more than
adequate, wish I'd gone with the 3" instead. I think it's 150 CFM, not
that that means much.

The blower really just needs to not restrict the airflow while in low
gear.
That ensures that when stationary or in higher gear you are getting the
same level of cooling. 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes
it much more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor
while you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much
more difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
> > If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and
> > make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it
> > can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Morgan LaMoore
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes it much
more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.

If your car lets you, try it some time: turn off the engine/motor while
you're coasting in neutral in a parking lot and steer. It's much more
difficult than a system that was designed for manual steering.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
> > If you just remove the belt, the pump can block the flow of fluid and
> > make turning quite difficult. Depending on the particular system, it
> > can help to disconnect the hoses from the pump and then connect them
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*



> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> > I've also found that removing power from a power-assist system makes
> > it much more difficult to steer than a manual steering system.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just conne=
cted directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted pow=
er steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. It's=
12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't waste s=
o much energy.

Bruce




> Mark Grasserwrote:
> 
> Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

I just now went outsides, slacked the tensioner pulley,
removed the belt and drove the truck without power steering.
It drives in the same way as my previous EV truck, needs
a little arm-work to turn when driving slow but otherwise
handling OK, so I will leave the pump off and see how the
energy consumption compares.
Oh and the "engine braking" feel has disappeared.

I did notice something disturbing that probably is caused
by the much higher revs on the gearbox - a small puddle of
transmission fluid under the truck.... yikes!
I will need to find from where it leaks and keep an eye
on the level... Not fun.

My other car (an ICE) needs a new PCV valve so it is apart
right now, which leaves the truck to make a visit tomorrow
night - just beyond the (round-trip) range of the truck.
So, I am happy that it can plug into a regular outlet.
Even adding 3 or 4 miles per hour of charging helps when
you have a whole evening visit and are a few miles short
of a roundtrip....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just conne=
cted directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted pow=
er steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. It's=
12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't waste s=
o much energy.

Bruce




> Mark Grasserwrote:
> 
> Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Hello Cor,

Sometimes a leaking automatic transmission is cause by a low vacuum signal 
on a vacuum modulator. In a normal engine vacuum operation, when you start 
out and accelerate, the engine vacuum drops which sends a low vacuum signal 
which may be in the 5 in.hg range. This low signal increases the 
transmission pump pressure to as high as 180 psi or more.

After the acceleration is done, the vacuum signal is raising to 15 to 22 
in.hg range. This lowers the transmission oil pressure to about 80 to 100 
psi.

If your vacuum signal is too low all the time, which is may be cause by a 
vacuum modulator adjustment, vacuum pump in.hg too low or a leaking vacuum 
line, the transmission oil normally blow out the vent that is located on top 
of the transmission.

A too high oil pressure may cause the front seals of the pump, which is 
where the torque converter is inserted into.

Drag racers actually have a vacuum switch to switch off this vacuum line, 
just before there run which increases the oil pressure to over 180 psi, then 
open it up after the run. Sometimes it is normal for them to blow the 
transmission seals after each run.

To prevent the transmission oil to blow out the transmission vent on to the 
ground, a line is attach to the vent which first catches the oil in a small 
reservoir. I use a remote oil filter housing that is normally use for a 
ICE. Do not use the oil filter, but attach the the two housings together 
with out the filter and run one line to the transmission oil pan and one up 
to the top of the transmission oil fill tube which I install a new 
transmission vent valve.

If you are using a vacuum pump to operated the modulator valve on a 
transmission, and the vacuum signal is always at 15 in.hg. or greater, then 
the transmission will always have low oil press which prevents a faster 
accelerator.

Diesel vehicles had a vacuum accelerator control where the vacuum first 
comes from a vacuum pump which is normally set at 22 in.hg. When the 
operator presses the accelerator, the vacuum accelerator control that is 
attach to the fuel accelerator control, vents the vacuum signal which cause 
a low signal to the transmission vacuum modulator thus causes higher oil 
pressure for increase acceleration.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!


I just now went outsides, slacked the tensioner pulley,
removed the belt and drove the truck without power steering.
It drives in the same way as my previous EV truck, needs
a little arm-work to turn when driving slow but otherwise
handling OK, so I will leave the pump off and see how the
energy consumption compares.
Oh and the "engine braking" feel has disappeared.

I did notice something disturbing that probably is caused
by the much higher revs on the gearbox - a small puddle of
transmission fluid under the truck.... yikes!
I will need to find from where it leaks and keep an eye
on the level... Not fun.

My other car (an ICE) needs a new PCV valve so it is apart
right now, which leaves the truck to make a visit tomorrow
night - just beyond the (round-trip) range of the truck.
So, I am happy that it can plug into a regular outlet.
Even adding 3 or 4 miles per hour of charging helps when
you have a whole evening visit and are a few miles short
of a roundtrip....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
Of [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just 
connected directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted 
power steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. 
It's 12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't 
waste so much energy.

Bruce




> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

My EV being over 35 years old and had to replace the power steering pump and 
vacuum brake booster, I just remove these items all the together and use a 
electric power steering pump that I got from EV Source and replace the 
vacuum brake booster with a hydro-brake booster that I got from my local 
independent auto parts store.

The electric power steering pump high pressure lines first go to the high 
pressure input of the hydro-boost and exist out to the steering box. A low 
pressure line also exits out of the hydro-boost that tees into a fill 
reservoir and back to the electric steering pump.

You can see some of these hydro-boost conversions on line that replaces the 
vacuum brake boosters.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!


I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just 
connected directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted 
power steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. 
It's 12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't 
waste so much energy.

Bruce




> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Wow - is all I can say.
I drove to my appointment without the power steering.
This time I could maintain 55 MPH with only about 160-180A
with the pack sagging to approx 110-115V so about 19kW power
instead of the ~30kW before. So, it seems that I saved about
10kW no longer being dissipated into the power steering pump.
Wow!
This means that I have suddenly 10kW more power available for
my drive (acceleration was indeed somewhat better) and even
more important - my range has increased with 50% when driving
the same speed!

Wow.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:48 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I just now went outsides, slacked the tensioner pulley, removed the belt an=
d drove the truck without power steering.
It drives in the same way as my previous EV truck, needs a little arm-work =
to turn when driving slow but otherwise handling OK, so I will leave the pu=
mp off and see how the energy consumption compares.
Oh and the "engine braking" feel has disappeared.

I did notice something disturbing that probably is caused by the much highe=
r revs on the gearbox - a small puddle of transmission fluid under the truc=
k.... yikes!
I will need to find from where it leaks and keep an eye on the level... Not=
fun.

My other car (an ICE) needs a new PCV valve so it is apart right now, which=
leaves the truck to make a visit tomorrow night - just beyond the (round-t=
rip) range of the truck.
So, I am happy that it can plug into a regular outlet.
Even adding 3 or 4 miles per hour of charging helps when you have a whole e=
vening visit and are a few miles short of a roundtrip....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just conne=
cted directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted pow=
er steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. It's=
12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't waste s=
o much energy.

Bruce




> Mark Grasserwrote:
> 
> Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

That is an amazing difference. The previous setup must really have been
heating up your power steering system. 10 kW has to go somewhere, and I
don't know where else it could go besides heat!

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:02 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!
> 
> Wow - is all I can say.
> I drove to my appointment without the power steering.
> This time I could maintain 55 MPH with only about 160-180A with the pack
> sagging to approx 110-115V so about 19kW power instead of the ~30kW
> before. So, it seems that I saved about 10kW no longer being dissipated
into
> the power steering pump.
> Wow!
> This means that I have suddenly 10kW more power available for my drive
> (acceleration was indeed somewhat better) and even more important - my
> range has increased with 50% when driving the same speed!
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
> 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Yup, it did. I burned my finger when touching the pump housing after
less than 15 min freeway drive before taking the belt off. 


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mike Nickerson
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:21 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

That is an amazing difference. The previous setup must really have been
heating up your power steering system. 10 kW has to go somewhere, and I
don't know where else it could go besides heat!

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:02 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!
> 
> Wow - is all I can say.
> I drove to my appointment without the power steering.
> This time I could maintain 55 MPH with only about 160-180A with the 
> pack sagging to approx 110-115V so about 19kW power instead of the 
> ~30kW before. So, it seems that I saved about 10kW no longer being 
> dissipated
into
> the power steering pump.
> Wow!
> This means that I have suddenly 10kW more power available for my drive

> (acceleration was indeed somewhat better) and even more important - my

> range has increased with 50% when driving the same speed!
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
> 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!*

Hello Cor,

It sounds like the by pass valve in the power steering pump is not working. 
As the pump pressure builds up to the rated maximum psi, then the by pass 
valve opens. Power steering pumps range from 1000 psi to over 5000 psi.

The pump should maintain psi until it drops to a set low psi which is the 
built in differential. There should be no power draw during the 
differential difference between high and low cut off.

10kw to run the power steering pump is way too high, its either you have a 
5000 psi pump design for large trucks or your pump is bad.

I only use 360 watts or 30 amps at 12 volts that is run off a 180 amps DC-DC 
converter bank to run a 1000 psi hydraulic pump that runs both the power 
steering and the hydraulic power brakes.

As the pressure gets to 1000 psi, the by pass valve opens and there is no 
power to operated it until the pump pressure drops to 800 psi. My EV only 
requires 877 psi for normal braking and turn.

On the main battery side, the hydraulic pump amperes is only 2 amps for 
straight line driving with no braking. When turning and/or braking the 
ampere may only rise to 3 amps at 180 volts.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!


Wow - is all I can say.
I drove to my appointment without the power steering.
This time I could maintain 55 MPH with only about 160-180A
with the pack sagging to approx 110-115V so about 19kW power
instead of the ~30kW before. So, it seems that I saved about
10kW no longer being dissipated into the power steering pump.
Wow!
This means that I have suddenly 10kW more power available for
my drive (acceleration was indeed somewhat better) and even
more important - my range has increased with 50% when driving
the same speed!

Wow.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:48 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I just now went outsides, slacked the tensioner pulley, removed the belt and 
drove the truck without power steering.
It drives in the same way as my previous EV truck, needs a little arm-work 
to turn when driving slow but otherwise handling OK, so I will leave the 
pump off and see how the energy consumption compares.
Oh and the "engine braking" feel has disappeared.

I did notice something disturbing that probably is caused by the much higher 
revs on the gearbox - a small puddle of transmission fluid under the 
truck.... yikes!
I will need to find from where it leaks and keep an eye on the level... Not 
fun.

My other car (an ICE) needs a new PCV valve so it is apart right now, which 
leaves the truck to make a visit tomorrow night - just beyond the 
(round-trip) range of the truck.
So, I am happy that it can plug into a regular outlet.
Even adding 3 or 4 miles per hour of charging helps when you have a whole 
evening visit and are a few miles short of a roundtrip....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
Of [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 9:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling my conversion - changing motor RPM!

I'm satisfied with my power steering pump removed. The hoses are just 
connected directly together, skipping where the pump used to be. If I wanted 
power steering in an EV conversion, I would get a pump from a Toyota MR2. 
It's 12V and, unlike the regular pumps that are always turning, doesn't 
waste so much energy.

Bruce




> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> Why would you not change the pulley ratio, like all the racers I know do?
> 
> ...


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