# [EVDL] Potted Marine charger?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Anyone ever consider something like this for EV battery charging?
http://www.promariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=42021

I have a 2 bank one on my RC mower project and it works great. Its potted, 
charges 2-12 volt AGM,Gel, or lead acid batteries and does the whole trickle 
charge thing. I'm no BMS or battery expert by far but they are looking like 
a good idea. It looks like I can get 3 bank ones in the $200ish range 
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/299089?&cid=chanintel&srccode=cii_13736960&cpncode=18-21152274-2
Possibly less if I look for bulk purchasing somewhere.

What to the experts think?

Stub 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I looked at the Promariner multi banked chargers. Looking at the 
manuals, they are NOT isolated banks, but all appear to share a common 
ground - NOT usable with a series string of batteries in a high voltage 
pack without removing the inter-battery links




> Chris Stephens wrote:
> > Anyone ever consider something like this for EV battery charging?
> > http://www.promariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=42021
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Actually,
You must be looking at the manuals for the non potted chargers. ALL of the
ProMariner potted chargers ARE isolated outputs, both from the primary and
from each other. You can configure them in series or in parallel or
series-parallel if you want. It won't care. Just so happens I am, oops was,
the director of engineering till a year ago. 

If anyone wants a better price the thing to do would be to call their
800-824-0524 number, drop my name, and you can probably buy a refurbished
unit (typically this means someone didn't like it and returned it to the
store but now it can't be sold as new) for a lot less than new and still get
the same warranty.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:21 PM
To: Chris Stephens; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potted Marine charger?

I looked at the Promariner multi banked chargers. Looking at the 
manuals, they are NOT isolated banks, but all appear to share a common 
ground - NOT usable with a series string of batteries in a high voltage 
pack without removing the inter-battery links




> Chris Stephens wrote:
> > Anyone ever consider something like this for EV battery charging?
> > http://www.promariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=42021
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

According to the documentation, It Depends on the model. one model has 4 
wires for three batteries in series the other model has 6 wires. The 6 
wire model can be 3 batteries in series or three batteries in parallel 
or 3 separate batteries so it is isolated.

I bought one when my PFC died, but got the pfc back before trying it out.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So to be more specific the ProSport 20 is a 20 amp charger for two batteries
and the ProSport 20Plus is a 20 amp charger for three batteries, both of
these models are totally isolated. 

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:xx[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potted Marine charger?

According to the documentation, It Depends on the model. one model has 4 
wires for three batteries in series the other model has 6 wires. The 6 
wire model can be 3 batteries in series or three batteries in parallel 
or 3 separate batteries so it is isolated.

I bought one when my PFC died, but got the pfc back before trying it out.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bill Dube wrote:
> > This charger sounds similar to the potted marine chargers I
> > tried on the Wabbit about 10 years ago. I had "issues" with the ones
> > I tried. I don't think these work very well with AGMs. At least the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey guys, don't beat up Mark! He is giving me valuable used-to-be inside 
info here. I started the questioning because I'm impressed with the build 
quality for the 2 bank version I'm useing on my RC mower. Charging 
individually seems better and less expensive if I make sure all banks are 
working.

That makes sense. It seems its a good idea assuming I make sure all banks 
are charging. This thing has a "charged" light that I could moniter. I 
assume it would fail if one of the 3 batteries tied to it didn't charge or 
if one of the banks wasn't working. They are potted so I couldn't solder up 
a remot led. I guess I'd have to mount them so they are easily visible.

Stub



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> > Well hey Bill,
> > I don't work there anymore but I think the charger is better than
> > average. You do realize that the majority of people who fill these
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Chris Stephens wrote:
> > It seems its a good idea assuming I make sure all banks are charging.
> > This thing has a "charged" light that I could monitor. I assume it
> > would fail if one of the 3 batteries tied to it didn't charge or if
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 15 Oct 2008 at 17:42, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Check the archives for the
> > circuit; I'm sure it's in there (somewhere).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You also might want to note that the web site that was smearing the product
was of Bass Pro shops, the ProSport line is sold at Cabala's.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Chris Stephens
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:29 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potted Marine charger?

Hey guys, don't beat up Mark! He is giving me valuable used-to-be inside 
info here. I started the questioning because I'm impressed with the build 
quality for the 2 bank version I'm useing on my RC mower. Charging 
individually seems better and less expensive if I make sure all banks are 
working.

That makes sense. It seems its a good idea assuming I make sure all banks 
are charging. This thing has a "charged" light that I could moniter. I 
assume it would fail if one of the 3 batteries tied to it didn't charge or 
if one of the banks wasn't working. They are potted so I couldn't solder up

a remot led. I guess I'd have to mount them so they are easily visible.

Stub



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> > Well hey Bill,
> > I don't work there anymore but I think the charger is better than
> > average. You do realize that the majority of people who fill these
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm interested but can't seem to find it. I see where you talk about it some 
but never describe the circuit well.

Stub


> If you're going to use individual chargers, and don't have any way to
> insure that they all worked, try my "Batt-Bridge" light. It's a very
> simple "idiot light" that will light if *any* battery in the pack
> differs from the rest by more than 1-2 volts. Check the archives for
> the circuit; I'm sure it's in there (somewhere).
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Another, albeit considerably more complex, option for individual bat
monitoring is a nifty little equalizer looking device that James May has
been putting together:
http://www.evconvert.com/article/led-bargraph-battery-monitor-part-2
You can also see a nice youtube of the forkenswift with the bargraph in
action.

I've got the parts priced out at ~100$ for 12x 12V version (at Newark.com).
A solid few hours of soldering ahead of me here!

As my first charging solution will be individual chargers, I'm going to give
this project a go. I was going to go with 12 leds / diodes, but this has
the added value of showing you the bats under load; which can be critical in
finding a charging / battery problem.

Alternatively, you can go with a Paktrakr for 220$ for 12 batts, no
soldering required...

Cheers,

-Nick





> David Roden <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 15 Oct 2008 at 17:42, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've been following that blog - and all the parts are as we speak on 
the way for a 24 cell monitor. I think I will mount it overhead above 
the mirror, sort of overhead console style. It is not an equalizer or 
balancer - it is a monitor pure and simple. I think it will be a very 
good, instantaneous indicator of every battery's condition under load 
in real time.
We'll see how it goes, how my fab skills are, how my pcb skills are...
Works out to about 9.00 and change per cell with cabling and fuses et. 
al. beyond the basic boards.
Still need to do something about balancing. I'm leaning toward Lee's 
Zener Diode Balancers for their simple effective design.
If (WHEN) I get the monitor completed I'll post it on my album page.
Bob
evalbum.com/2004


Quoting nicolas drouin <[email protected]>:

> Another, albeit considerably more complex, option for individual bat
> monitoring is a nifty little equalizer looking device that James May has
> been putting together:
> http://www.evconvert.com/article/led-bargraph-battery-monitor-part-2
> You can also see a nice youtube of the forkenswift with the bargraph in
> action.
>
> I've got the parts priced out at ~100$ for 12x 12V version (at Newark.com).
> A solid few hours of soldering ahead of me here!
>
> As my first charging solution will be individual chargers, I'm going to give
> this project a go. I was going to go with 12 leds / diodes, but this has
> the added value of showing you the bats under load; which can be critical in
> finding a charging / battery problem.
>
> Alternatively, you can go with a Paktrakr for 220$ for 12 batts, no
> soldering required...
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Nick
>
>
>
>


> David Roden <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 15 Oct 2008 at 17:42, Lee Hart wrote:
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Bob,

I also have the parts on order, so we'll swap build-stories/mishaps on these
things over on that blog. Indeed, I don't want to mislead with the term
'equalizer' -- it is an LED-volt-guage device -- it simply looks like an
audio graphical equalizer of yesteryear.

Lee's zener-diode & bulb shunts were my plan before I went with individual
smart chargers. I'll probably install them if I go ahead with my off-board
charger purchase (230VAC QuickCharge 20A @ 144VDC).

Cheers,
-Nick





> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I've been following that blog - and all the parts are as we speak on
> > the way for a 24 cell monitor. I think I will mount it overhead above
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> you wrote:
> 
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee's zener-diode shunts are not a balancer, they only show a difference
between adjacent batteries and act as an early warning if you batteries
are getting out of balance. I don't think they will throw the charger
off but might not show valid results while the chargers are active.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of R. Matt Milliron
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:07 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potted Marine charger?



> you wrote:
> 
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> nicolas drouin wrote:
> > Perhaps you thought I was refering to Lee's "One of your batteries is out of
> > ballance" circuit. (Haven't found the ref despite my googling)
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh... I feel like an idiot now.
I tried Batt-Bridge in google and got a few hits but than narrowed it down.
Thanks,
Stub




> Lee Hart wrote:
> > nicolas drouin wrote:
> >> Perhaps you thought I was refering to Lee's "One of your batteries
> >> is out of ballance" circuit. (Haven't found the ref despite my
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Harris, Lawrence wrote:
> > Lee's zener-diode shunts are not a balancer, they only show a difference
> > between adjacent batteries and act as an early warning if you batteries
> > are getting out of balance. I don't think they will throw the charger
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nick,
Did you find somewhere with a good price on the Quickcharger? I was quoted $800.
storm

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:43 AM, nicolas drouin
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> I also have the parts on order, so we'll swap build-stories/mishaps on these
> things over on that blog. Indeed, I don't want to mislead with the term
> 'equalizer' -- it is an LED-volt-guage device -- it simply looks like an
> audio graphical equalizer of yesteryear.
>
> Lee's zener-diode & bulb shunts were my plan before I went with individual
> smart chargers. I'll probably install them if I go ahead with my off-board
> charger purchase (230VAC QuickCharge 20A @ 144VDC).
>
> Cheers,
> -Nick
>
>
>
>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I've been following that blog - and all the parts are as we speak on
> >> the way for a 24 cell monitor. I think I will mount it overhead above
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I bought mine from QC direct, paid 500 plus shipping for the 110volt 
(10 amp) version. You might check with them, could be your quickest 
shipping - they make the units larger than 72 volts to order.
Bob


Quoting storm connors <[email protected]>:

> Nick,
> Did you find somewhere with a good price on the Quickcharger? I was 
> quoted $800.
> storm
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:43 AM, nicolas drouin
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> I also have the parts on order, so we'll swap build-stories/mishaps on these
>> things over on that blog. Indeed, I don't want to mislead with the term
>> 'equalizer' -- it is an LED-volt-guage device -- it simply looks like an
>> audio graphical equalizer of yesteryear.
>>
>> Lee's zener-diode & bulb shunts were my plan before I went with individual
>> smart chargers. I'll probably install them if I go ahead with my off-board
>> charger purchase (230VAC QuickCharge 20A @ 144VDC).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've been following that blog - and all the parts are as we speak on
> >>> the way for a 24 cell monitor. I think I will mount it overhead above
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yup, the 144VDC model is:
$500 for the 120VAC +50$ shipping (from EVAmerica)
$800 for the 230VAC +60$ shipping

Both are fully isolated according to Ray at QuickCharge. IMHO, its pretty
good bang-for-the-buck unless you're going to start building your own...




On 10/17/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I bought mine from QC direct, paid 500 plus shipping for the 110volt
> (10 amp) version. You might check with them, could be your quickest
> shipping - they make the units larger than 72 volts to order.
> Bob
>
>
> Quoting storm connors <stormconn


[email protected]>:
>
> > Nick,
> > Did you find somewhere with a good price on the Quickcharger? I was
> > quoted $800.
> > storm
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 2:43 AM, nicolas drouin
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Hi Bob,
> >>
> >> I also have the parts on order, so we'll swap build-stories/mishaps on
> these
> >> things over on that blog. Indeed, I don't want to mislead with the term
> >> 'equalizer' -- it is an LED-volt-guage device -- it simply looks like an
> >> audio graphical equalizer of yesteryear.
> >>
> >> Lee's zener-diode & bulb shunts were my plan before I went with
> individual
> >> smart chargers. I'll probably install them if I go ahead with my
> off-board
> >> charger purchase (230VAC QuickCharge 20A @ 144VDC).
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Nick
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I've been following that blog - and all the parts are as we speak on
> > >>> the way for a 24 cell monitor. I think I will mount it overhead above
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >
> > If you're going to use individual chargers, and don't have any way to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The diagram and instructions for Lee Hart's Batt-Bridge imbalance warning 
alarm is posted in the EVDL library, along with quite a bit that he wrote 
about it back in 2000 and 2002. Look here :

http://evdl.org/pages/battbridge.html

Or check it out from the library itself :

http://evdl.org/lib/

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nice job, David.



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The diagram and instructions for Lee Hart's Batt-Bridge imbalance warning
> > alarm is posted in the EVDL library, along with quite a bit that he wrote
> > about it back in 2000 and 2002. Look here :
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> storm connors wrote:
> > Nice job, David.
> >> http://evdl.org/pages/battbridge.html
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 18 Oct 2008 at 21:21, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Now maybe we won't get asked for it again every couple months.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is a quick Charger on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRIC-VEHICLE-QUICK-CHARGER-120VDC_W0QQitemZ290268402977QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290268402977&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

> Nick,
> Did you find somewhere with a good price on the Quickcharger? I was quoted 
> $800.
> storm

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------

