# noob questions



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

A 48 volt forklift controller will safely run 48 volts. Get a controller for an automobile and not a forklift. 

The motor should handle at least 120 volts and 500 amps. Don't worry it wont run at that power level all the time. Only briefly as you accelerate. 

Run all your batteries in series and be sure you have a controller that is designed to run under that voltage range. Some controllers will work within a range of voltages. So a 144 volt controller may work just fine at 120 volts but don't try 156 volts with the controller. Stay in the parameters of the controllers abilities to safely power your motor. 

Optimal Gel Cells are Lead Acid. Stay away at all possible costs. You can build an acceptable lead acid vehicle if your needs are very short distances. If you have needs over 20 solid miles then stay away. Go lithium and go with the highest voltages you can and highest AH rating you can afford. If you can't afford lithium like many think they can't then by all means go Lead but you WILL change to lithium. So pay now or pay again later. 

We are all on a TIGHT budget. You can however do anything you put your mind and body to do. If you need more money you can figure a way to make more so you CAN afford the lithium and motors and controllers and the other things you need to make a wonderful conversion. 

Can you build an electric on $1000? You could but...............

We are here to assist you in any way we can. Just don't get disappointed if your expectations are dashed by the truth of reality. Electric IS way cool. 

Pete 

I have converted three and purchased an OEM Leaf. Love driving electric. My first was lead acid and it quickly became apparent that it would not suffice for my NEEDS or WANTS. More than likely it won't for you either. 

However don't stop here. You will be glad you gave it a go. Do it right and you will be rewarded.


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## crxls (Aug 25, 2012)

Thanks for the answers. 

Now I heard that 24 6 volt batteries will give you better range than 12 12 volt batteries. What kind of range would I be looking at with 24 12 volt batteries wired for 144 volts in a small 2wd truck like a Toyota or ranger? 

Theoretically, both wired for 144 volts, should I get better range from 12 12 volt batteries in a metro or 24 12 volt batteries in a small 2wd truck?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

crxls said:


> Thanks for the answers.
> 
> Now I heard that 24 6 volt batteries will give you better range than 12 12 volt batteries. What kind of range would I be looking at with 24 12 volt batteries wired for 144 volts in a small 2wd truck like a Toyota or ranger?
> 
> Theoretically, both wired for 144 volts, should I get better range from 12 12 volt batteries in a metro or 24 12 volt batteries in a small 2wd truck?


Because your running lead you range will be around 45 miles on a good day with new batteries at 45/55 mph. 

6 volt batteries are also better because they last a bit longer and are much more robust than 12 volt batteries. Deep cycle batteries built for vehicles are what you want. You don't want marine batteries. They work but are not as durable.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I responded to a thread recently where the OP was using premium lead-acid batteries. I figured the cost per usable watt-hour, assuming a 1C draw and a Peukert of about 1.2, was about the same as or more than LiFePO4 and about 1/3 the weight and size. Approximate values are:

Flooded lead-acid deep cycle batteries 12V 105Ah $85: $0.14/Wh
SLA batteries 12V 12Ah $22.50: $0.32/Wh
Premium Odyssey Lead-Acid 12V 65Ah $278: $0.71/Wh
Calb LiFePO4 3.2V 40Ah $54: $0.42/Wh (assuming no Peukert factor)


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## crxls (Aug 25, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I responded to a thread recently where the OP was using premium lead-acid batteries. I figured the cost per usable watt-hour, assuming a 1C draw and a Peukert of about 1.2, was about the same as or more than LiFePO4 and about 1/3 the weight and size. Approximate values are:
> 
> Flooded lead-acid deep cycle batteries 12V 105Ah $85: $0.14/Wh
> SLA batteries 12V 12Ah $22.50: $0.32/Wh
> ...


So you're saying that the premium lead acid was the best value?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

No. Higher cost is not generally a good indicator of best value.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Yes, I was trying to show that Lithium cells are not that much more than Lead and actually cheaper than the premium batteries. I should have added the other parameters that show the pros and cons:

Flooded lead-acid are heaviest and can spill acid in a crash. They also typically last only 2-5 years in EV use, and their capacity rapidly declines over that time. But they *are* cheap.
SLAs are safer in a crash and my experience has been that they can last as long as 12 years (although not under regular use).
Premium batteries supposedly last 5-10 years and are safer in a crash, and perhaps have a lower Peukert factor so a higher effective Wh rating, but still are 3x the weight of Lithium and also more expensive.
The LiFePO4 batteries have a very low Peukert factor and also good performance at 10C or more, so you can get more peak power and range than the same Wh of lead. The charging and balancing techniques and safety issues are well-known in the EV community. They also should last for 10 years or longer under normal use, and prices are dropping or probably will drop soon.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

i looked into the batteries and if i got lead acid i found i would get about 500 charges discharges and 6v 225ah $200 each going on the fact that the inturnal resistance takes 1/2 of the amp/hr 
and lithium my choose (lifeP04) 3.3v 100ah inturnal resistance at .5% at my gess and if you look after them you can get 5000 charge discharges $190 each

a good set of batteries and a good controller can make or brake your build

happy building
owen


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## Inquisitor (Jun 21, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> ... They also should last for 10 years or longer under normal use, and prices are dropping or probably will drop soon.


Is there something specifically in the industry that warrant's the price drop you are talking? Or are you saying... "in general" due to things like more production EV's being produced using such technology?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Inquisitor said:


> Is there something specifically in the industry that warrant's the price drop you are talking? Or are you saying... "in general" due to things like more production EV's being produced using such technology?


There have been some recent advances in battery design and I would expect a fairly major breakthrough within 5-10 years. Also I am speculating that oil prices will skyrocket again (and more permanently) within that timeframe and there will be more serious investment in HEVs which use batteries. So with higher production and more sales, as long as the raw materials are not a problem, the prices should drop, and if a new technology becomes available there may be lots of used Lithium cells with many years left, avaialble for cheap on eBay. Also, IMHO the economy is NOT going to expand any more (or ever again), at least in the US and Europe, so generalized inflation is unlikely. Energy and food prices may soar, but technology will probably become cheaper as demand for toys slackens and there is competition in that sector.


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## crxls (Aug 25, 2012)

Ok, so after a lot of thinking and a lot of money spent at the pump in the last few months, I have decided that I would like to do this project right at whatever cost. Just might take longer. My plan now is a somewhat newer Hyundai, KIA or Chevy metro. Something of that sort that can be dedicated to driving to work which is 25 miles each way and then Still be used for the typical running errands in the evening after work. 

I work at a diesel shop which claims to be all about going green so I don't think they should deny me the ability to charge at work. If they do, they aren't as greeen as they claim. 

I'm thinking I need to build something that gets a minimum of 50 solid miles. Charge over night, drive 25-26 miles to work, charge at work, drive home and there should Still be another 25 miles left in it for the typical running around in the evening. 

Now just to figure out what parts would be needed to make this happen in a 4 door hatch or sedan economy car body like a metro, Hyundai accent, KIA Rio or spectra. I have accepted that I have to go lithium. Now let's get some suggestions on parts and prices. Thanks


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