# My Project, the "FavElec"



## favguy (May 2, 2008)

The plan (so far) is to build a 144V, 500A system, utilising a 9" DC motor, Open Revolt controller, and Thundersky cells, most likely 160Ah. I'm hoping for a comfortable range of 70 miles if possible...

Anyway, on with the cutting...

The next job was to remove all the existing systems out of the way ready for the body modifications and fitting the battery boxes in the rear and mid sections of the car.

So the spare wheel, parcel shelf, rear seats & carpets were all removed and safely stored out of the way and the floorpan was carefully measured and marked up ready for cutting.

The exhaust was removed from the cat back. The centre silencer was modified and temporarily remounted, to expell exhaust gas out to the side of the car, this allows the car to remain mobile for the time bieng. The exhaust heat shields were then also removed. All the now redundant exhaust hangers were then removed or cut off.

With the exhaust out of the way, the petrol tank was drained and removed along with the filler pipe assembly. The petrol pump was removed from the tank and mounted in a 5 litre petrol can which in turn was mounted into the engine bay and connected up to give a temporary fuel source to allow the car to still be moved about whilst work is in progress. Next all the front to rear fuel lines were removed. 

Now with that lot gone, we can start the really fun stuff...

The rear box was cut out using a combination of jigsaw and good old hand held padsaw where I couldn't get the jigsaw in. This was a little tedious! the edges were then all filed to get to exactly the right size and de-burred All the exposed edges were primed and painted. 










Also got this bit left to play with :rofl:










So the next job was to do the same again to the underseat section. This was easier to cut out using just a jigsaw. Again the cutouts edges were all filed to exactly the right size and de-burred. Due to the pressings in the steel at the front edge of of the hole, there was some additional work to be done here though. The edges of the pressings were cut and the steel panel beaten completely flat along the whole of the front edge. (This was necessary to allow for fitment of the box and reinforcing frame below later) Once flat, the cut sections were welded together and the area sanded smooth, cleaned and painted.










And yet another bit left over!










Before going any further, the original brake lines had to be re-routed as they now crossed the cut out for the box.










So the old lines were cut out and new lines were made up and routed around the box hole 










Next... boxes and frames, construction and fitting. :thumbup:


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

So we now have two large holes, it's time to make something to fill them with.


Starting with the mid box, this was contructed from 1.2mm thick galvanised sheet steel. Folded and then seam welded into a complete box to exactly fit the cut out. It was then etch primed and painted matt black on the outside. The inside was then painted with several coats of insulating rubberised paint.













An additional support brace was constructed from 20mmx20mm box section steel to give additional support to the frontal area of the box, as the metal this is being fixed to is only single skinned at this point.













The rear box was again constructed from 1.2mm thick galvanised steel sheet, folded, welded, and painted, but an additional reinforcement of 18mm thick marine plywood was bolted into the base to give additional support and remove any possibility of sagging to the centre of the box.












A support frame to interface the sheet metalwork of the box to the irregular edges of the cut out and provide additional reinforcement was again made from 20mm x 20mm box section steel.












Once made, the boxes and frames were trial fitted and all mounting holes were drilled through the boxes, frames & car body. Everything was then dis-assembled and cleaned. All the drilled holes were then de-burred, primed and painted ready for final assembly.












After drying, black polyurethane bonding and sealing mastic was then applied around the mid box aperture and the box was bedded into this. Both the box and frame were then finally bolted into place permanently using 6mm A2 grade stainless steel bolts of varying lengths to suit. 


You'll also notice three countersunk bolts in the bottom centre of the box below, these hold the clamps for the handbrake cables. (previously secured to the bottom of the fuel tank)












A different technique had to be used for the rear box as it was not practicle to apply mastic between the frame and car due to the gaps at various points, so the frame and box were first bolted in, again using A2 stainless bolts, with the mastic seal bieng applied between body and box from the underside. Only a 1mm to 2mm gap existed at any point between the rear box and cut edge making this very easy to do from below.












The polyurethane used is structural in strength, similar to that used for windscreen bonding, or in place of welding for panel assembly on some modern cars, so will add to rigidity, particularly of the mid box area.


The final result, no more holes, and two completely watertight battery boxes! 













So next we'll look at altering and re-fitting the rear seat to provide additional height for the mid box batteries, along with making the cover for the rear box.


Back soon...


Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Right, time for a bit more. Now a problem I did have was I could only go so low with the battery boxes under the car, as I didn't want to go any lower than the rear axle and risk any bottoming of the boxes on rough or bumpy roads. This isn't a problem for the rear box, as we can raise the top section into the boot space as much as we we need to, but it could have meant losing the rear seat base to allow for the mid box battery height. 



So what to do... Anyway after much head scratching, I figured out a good compromise. I stripped apart the two rear seat bases, cut them up, and remade them into one using 20mm x 20mm angle steel & 12mm plywood to make a built in box lid. After much welding, sawing and painting, it was ready for reasembly. I then cut the original foam for the outer part of the base and glued it back onto the ply box outer edges. Then using new, much higher density foam, I cut and shaped it to form the main centre part of the seat base, the hhigher density foam giving support over the now much thinner top section. This was again glued on, and a final 5mm layer of very high density foam was glued over the whole lot to help even out the differences in density. The original seat covering was altered and sewn together from the two parts making up the two seat bases and refitted over the now one piece base.



The result is a seat base that looks completely original, still gives some cushioning, but is harder to sit on than the original seat. Also, we still have split folding upper sections of the seat for loading odd shaped luggage, but we now have a one piece folding base. Overall, I'm very happy with the compromise, and I get to keep the rear seat and original looks 














Next... rear box top


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Now onto the rear box top...



Quite simple this one, using 12mm ply again, a box top was constructed with the rear edge partially open to allow it to swing up over the batteries for access. The box was sealed then had matching carpet glued to it and trimmed off. It was mounted using two hinges fixed to 2 of the front box mounting bolts. Once closed the lid is held firmly secure by the two shootbolts that go into receiving holes (lined by nylon inserts to avoid rattles!) in the rear cross section as you can see below.























Very neat, simple solution, looks nearly factory and we only lose about 4" of boot height in total too :thumbup:



The boot carpet was then cut to suit and reinstalled, job done.


The finished mid box from underneath, rear box can be seen on earlier rear end shots:













We'll need to revisit these boxes to drill holes for conduit entries for cabling, and of course battery mounting at a later date, but thats it for now.



Next, Ohh... my Favorit bit, (pardon the pun!) the instrumentation :thumbup:



Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I think before we get to the instrumentation bit, we'll have a little interlude and I'll tell you about the charging point 



As said before, I really want to keep the car looking as standard as possible, and for the modifications to look as though they might have been from the factory so to speak. So with this in mind, I needed to be able to keep the charging point looking similar to the original petrol filler arrangement.



This was my solution. Firstly I cut the top section off the original petrol filler pipe and entry point down to just the plastic screw thread and flange that sits up against the rear of the panel, under the wheel arch. This was nice and easy as it's made from a very malleable plastic. 



Next, I stripped out the filler cap, just leaving the outer shell of it. 



Then I got a pair of these :thumbup::

























The male plugs casing was modified slightly so the two halves screwed together with the filler entry in the middle. This meant a little bit of reaming out of what was left of the filler point until it all fitted together nicely.



The female plug was completely chopped up, leaving just what I needed of the outer female section to plug into the male on the car. This was then screwed to the outer part of the original filler cap through what was originally the key hole, using a suitable "dished in" stainless steel washer and countersunk screw. This was then finished off with a plastic trim cap of the right size and texture glued over the centre of the filler cap as you can see below. 


The last task was to drill a small hole towards the bottom of the filler cap to allow for a small key I made to slide in and pull off the cap when it's time to charge.



I don't have a photo of the back of the cap, or the key at present, but I'll post one when I get time to snap one.



Anyway, I think the end result looks pretty slick, and it doesn't allow water into the plug terminals, when the caps on so, I'm a happy bunny. 
















Paul


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Looks very nice and professional.. We'll be watching with interest!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

OK, where have we got to? before I start on the instrumentation, I'll tell you about the heater.

Well believe it or not, this is what I decided on to heat the cars interior:












Yes, that's right, a hairdryer!


But it has to be the right type of hairdryer...


This is a dual voltage 120v/230v 1500 watt model. I chose this as in the 120v setting it will work just fine with 144v DC. This is because all small hairdryers use DC motors anyway, rectified for use with an AC power source and the voltage is in the tolerence range of the element. 


The fact it's 1500 watt also means its really powerful and can produce large volumes of hot air quickly. I also chose this particular model as it's compact, so will fit where it needs to. It also had a three year guarantee, and although I realise I won't be able to take it back if it goes wrong! lol, it does hopefully mean its bearings etc. are up to the task of lasting a while, remember these things usually get used and abused daily for years!


It also had a heavily domed metal grill on the rear end which allows for both easy mounting in the box it goes in, and good airflow into the rear of the unit when mounted. 


Oh, and it only cost a tenner in a sale!!


This is the component box we also needed:












Of course we first have to modify the hairdryer body considerably ready for mounting in the box:












And the finished article, all ready to bolt into the original heater matrix box:













The heater matrix box itself had to have the end face opened up a little with a hole saw to accomodate the new heater. The assembly was then screwed to the end, with a small foam gasket fitted between the boxes to give an airtight seal: 












The end result works very well, it is activated by a 12v relay that in turn applies the 144v main pack voltage to the heater when both the cars fan is switched on and the heater slider is pushed over to the right to the heat setting. (Utilising a strategically positioned microswitch behind the dash!)


Ok, so next we get onto my favorite part, the instrumentation and dashboard alterations.


Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Right then, on to the dashboard instruments.

When considering this, I spent a good deal of time thinking of the best way to keep the dash looking as "factory" as possible. I also wanted to avoid a homemade look that so many other electric car conversions seem to end up with, especially with the instrumentation. Also there isn't a lot of spare room on the dash for the gauges needed. 

I need to keep the original tachometer and drive this from the motor with a suitable sender, so this stays. The original fuel and temperature gauges are no longer of any use so they were to go. (This at least gives a little space for some of the new instruments.)

We needed to somehow incorporate all of the following somewhere:

* Voltmeter - 144v battery

* Voltmeter - 12v battery

* Ammeter - 144v battery

* Ammeter - Motor current

* Temperature - Motor

* Temperature - Motor Controller

* Individual realtime cell pair performance meters x 24! 

* System active warning light

* Controller pre-charge warning light

* Motor overtemp warning light

* Emergency system disconnect

* Cruise control on/off & set switchgear

So with that onerous task, I set about planning where it would all go and the best type of guages to source. I decided on backlit LCD meters as opposed to analogue as they are more compact and the style chosen blend nicely with the original dash style I think. 

It was decided that the centre left air vent and storage tray beneath it would be sacrificed to make room for the main meters.

The headlight adjustment system and bulky switch for it to the left of the steering wheel was also removed to make room for some of the new kit. This was really no loss, as it didn't work anyway!

OK, so below is the style of meter chosen for the voltage and current readings, these will go in the new centre panel to be built:










And the temperature readouts that will go in place of the cars original fuel and temp. gauges, these are actually much smaller than the above gauges, as you'll soon see:








The temperature gauges are only available in 5 volt form, so had to be fed via a miniature 2 watt 5v - 12v converter built into the rear of the instrument pod.

The 24 battery performance meters had to be both compact and arranged in a format that would allow for instantanious comparison of the whole pack at a glance, so a "graphic equaliser" style panel was needed for this task. More on this later.

Ok, so now we have our components, it's time to once again start chopping things up!

I think we'll start with the new centre panel, back soon...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

So here we have the original centre of the dashboard prior to starting:










The left hand vent and oddment tray beneath were first removed. The left hand vent ducting was blanked off and the holes now left by removal of the existing parts were further cut out and modified to allow room for installation of the new meters.

A new panel was cut to size from a suitable grained plastic sheet. This was fixed to the centre panel and sprayed matt black to match the sheen of the surrounding plastics. The Ammeter, (top) 144v meter, (middle) and 12v meter, (bottom) were installed. This sounds easy, but cutting the holes needed accurately enough to have them all line up perfectly was surprisingly difficult, I had to throw away the first panel and make a second! 

To the right side of the panel you see a switch, installed to allow the Ammeter to display either battery pack current draw or current being supplied to the motor from the controller. Below this were mounted two diffused LED warning lights. The amber will show system active and ready to drive (remember there is no noise from a running engine to tell you this!) and the red, controller pre-charging (a bit like the old glow plug light on a diesel). All the necessary wiring was run from behind the panel area and into the engine bay/fuse box as appropriate.

The finshed result: 










And when active: 










The meter backlighting doesn't show very nicely in the photograph, it's actually a very nice shade of blue as shown in an earlier post showing the single meter. I'm very happy with the end result and think it blends quite well with the overall dash styling.

Back soon with the original instrument cluster modification...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

So, the first job on the instrument cluster was to strip it down and remove the fuel and temperature gauge's. Here they are now surplus to requirements: 










The resulting holes in the instrument face plate panel needed to be made good with matching material. I scratched my head for a bit until discovering that 3.5 inch floppy disk case plastic was exactly right for this, so got busy cutting up a couple of old floppy's to salvage the plastic. This was cut to suit to both blank the original holes and provide new apertures of exactly the right size needed to install the new temperature gauges. The new guages were then installed into the face plate using appropriate bonding sealant. 

Once the sealant had cured, a little modification using a dremmel tool was needed to the plastic casing of the instrument cluster to allow clearance for the back of the right hand meter where a moulding for the low petrol warning light had once been! 

The finishing touch prior to re-assembly was to add the "C" & "M" logo's under the gauges to signify which is which for the motor and controller. These are the same size and font as the MPH under the speedo, they are also exactly in line with the original lettering under the speedo, hopefully this adds to the "original" feel of the job. 

Following this, all the parts were carefully cleaned and the instrument panel re-assembled. The gauge supply wiring was then soldered to the appropriate part of the circuit board at the rear via the small 5v-12v converter. The temperature probe wires were fed through the bulkhead to the engine bay and all was re-assembled. You can see the finished results below: 










Again, I'm very happy with the results, and the colours and style of these gauges when lit (see earlier post) go quite well with the existing clocks in the binnacle.

More soon...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Ok, time for a bit more on the instruments.

I took the opportunity to include the facility to see the outside ambient temperature, pressing this switch will allow you to toggle between motor and outside temperature. (The plastic blank you can see to the right of this fills what was the original immobiliser keyslot for those who were wondering):










The following before and after pictures show the old headlamp adjustment switch and then the new cruise control panel, this was screwed to the original stripped out headlighht switch panel, again with the help of some floppy disk plastic to finish the job!

Beneath this you can see the emergency stop pull. (This is in exactly the same position as the choke cable on the Mk1 Favorit, the support moulding was still in the dash plastic for this!) The other end of this cable activates the main breaker, isolating the main battery pack voltage from the system just for use in the case of a catastrophic emergency, hopefully it'll never need to be used : 

Before:










And after:










Ok, so next we're on to the battery monitor array...


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

You certainly have the necessary detail skills to make this build at least as good as any factory look. Very impressed. 

I imagine the rest of the build will be as neat and clean as this part is.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I do like what you've done keeping the stock gauge appearance, but since you replaced a temp gauge with a temp gauge, why not use the existing one? It might require a bit of tweaking to get the temp range you are looking for but it would be 100% stock. I would do the same with the gas gauge, source another temp gauge and either flip it upside down or fit it to the other gauge.

I like the attention to detail on the whole build though, very good work. How much do those battery boxes weigh?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

Thanks for the comments so far.

rwaudio,

The stock guages only give a rough indication of temperature, wheras the digital ones give the exact temperature, plus I liked the look of them 

Battery boxes don't weigh in at much at all as they're mainly sheet steel with a little bit of ply wood, truth be told, I don't actually know what they weigh

Now a little bit of an update for you all....

As I'm planning on using 46 or 48 160Ah Lifepo4 cells, I wanted a way to monitor them against each other in real time and ensure that none of them move out of kilter too much with the rest of the pack. This isn't a BMS system so to speak, I'm still undecided as to what I will or won't use for that, but it does give me instantanious indication of the state of the cells.

As a display of 46/48 was just too big, I decided to monitor pairs of cells using an array of 24 of the 10 LED bargraph type displays built and calibrated to work at lithium voltage. By monitoring pairs I know instantly if any one of each pair pulls the reading out of kilter and where to investigate

Ok, so onto the build. This had to be built from scratch and actually turned into quite a fun project, at least it gave me plenty of opportunity to practice my soldering skills!

Firstly the centre console was dismantled and the centre section removed for attention. The top section of the console that was initially used for storing cassettes (like we need them now!! lol!!) was sacrificed to house the array. I started by cutting out the rear of the cassette box as needed. I then made up a front plate from appropriate sheet plastic and bonded it to the console. A main on/off switch for the array was then fitted to the lower centre of the cut out.










The next job was to create a tinted face plate for the display, 2mm clear perspex was cut for this then tinted using light tint spray to the correct shade, so the LED displays show through very nicely when lit, but it doesn't show through when turned off. 










I then got to work making up the array. Stripboard for circuit building was cut up to the right size to accomodate a total of 24 circuits, with 2 to each board, one above the other, this meant a total of 12 boards. The copper strips were cut in various places on all of the boards and several jump links per board were also added to create the necessary circuit pathways. Following on from this, the 20 segment LED's were soldered in place, each of these provides for 2 of the readouts. The 24 control chips were then added to the boards, followed by several resisters, 2 potentiometers, a diode and capacitor per circuit. From start to finish of all the individual boards took the best part of 4 days of assembly and soldering! 

The boards were superglued together via the LED displays to form the array and additional stripboards were also glued to the top, bottom & rear of the unit to give rigidity and allow for mounting. The circuit on/off relays are glued to the rear of the back board.



















All the displays were temporarily hooked up in parallel and calibrated using a bench variable DC supply to set the upper and lower voltage limits.

After this another few very tedious hours ensued as the temporary parallel conections were unsoldered and the circuits were wired to the appropriate relays and in turn, the relays wired to the master switch and output plugs that will eventually go to the individual batteries. 

The complete array was then mounted into the rear of the console.

And the finished result from the rear:










And in the car:










My favorite display so far 

Back soon


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Awesome instrumentation, especially that last bit. How much did each display set you back in time and $$?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi,
The last one ended up costing me about £250 (about $400) in total and an absurd amount of time, probably 10 days work in total including prototyping the housing and mounting, which I ended up doing twice as wasn't happy with the first effort!

All the other guages were quite low cost, about £75 in total ($110 ish) and loads of time input!


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

favguy said:


> Hi,
> The last one ended up costing me about £250 (about $400) in total and an absurd amount of time, probably 10 days work in total including prototyping the housing and mounting, whichh I ended up doing twice as wasn't happy with the first effort!
> 
> All the other guages were quite low cost, about £75 in total ($110 ish) and loads of time input!


That last one is a pretty sweet display. I really like the tinted front!
Are you running pack voltages into the console for your monitor? If so make sure you take some precautions like add a resistor in line with the +/- wires so that even if it shorts out you just get a few milliamps.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I am, but all the wires will be fused at the cell end with 100mA fuses, so no harm could come to the cells or wiring, also entry will be right under the console safely away from access by anyone in the car.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Motor time...

I'd liked to have bought an off the shelf ADC 4001, or Warp9, but as I'm more hard up than a stone someones trying to get blood out of, had to settle for a used forklift motor 

So I went to visit a place in Chesterfield called Fork Truck Services that Woodsmith had told me about a while back. The website is: www.forktruckbreakers.com 

They had a shed full of old motors, most were either too large or too small, pump motors, or had female shafts, but I spotted a "goldilocks" just right candidate amongst them. It was filthy and all the brush springs had snapped with age fatigue whilst it had been sat in the shed for what I assume must have been at least 10 years, so I couldn't test it. Anyway, it was 9&1/4" in diameter x 14&1/2" long without the shafts, just right for my project and the output shaft came with the female part it went into, so good for making a coupler. It also seemed a good weight and was series wound. 

It had rumbly bearings and one poles shoe bolts had worked loose causing it to rub a little on the armature. The field coils were also shorted to ground. But... the comm. was in very good order with 65 bars, the armature looked good, and the coils, from what I could see of them looked in good order aside from the short. It's a Prestolite and looked quite well made. The chap selling them wanted £250 and wouldn't negotiate, so I agreed to buy it at which point he kindly gave me £30 back due to all the springs being snapped, so it stood me at £220.

So at this point, I was thinking i've either bought a very expensive doorstop, or it's a rough diamond, here it is:


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I started to go over the motor, firstly stripping it down to it's component parts, then degreasing the external casing components, followed by a coat of paint stripper on the aluminium end housings and manually sanding the steel centre until all was clean metal. This was followed by a coat of acid etch primer.

I also removed the cooling fan, and poles and phosphoric acid dipped them until they were corrosion free, ready for paint.

The original bearings were removed from the armature shaft as they were rumbling and new ones were sourced for re-assembly. the armature and commutator has been thoroughly cleaned and decades of accumulated compacted dust blown out of it with an airline, it appears to be in very nice condition.

Although not pictured, the brush assembly was also removed and cleaned ready for re-assembly.

Next task was to remove, clean and re-insulate the field coils, I discovered the short to the motor body at pole 2, which was also the loose one. So looked like it had worked loose in service slightly causing vibration and chafing of the field coil insulation.

The insulation and varnish to do this was on it's way at this point along with new springs. Having inspected the brushes, they were actually in really good order, so haven't been replaced as yet.

Some more piccies for you all:














































Back soon


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

OK, So we'd got to having the motor taken apart, cleaned, old paint stripped and etch primed. So each section of the motor was now worked over as necessary, the main casing had the field coils removed and cleaned, then re-varnished using 1200v high temperature impact proof insulating varnish! The casing inside wall was then insulated with Nomex Polyester Laminate again rated at 1200v, high temperature to avoid any possibility of a ground short in the future. 

Whilst the casing was stripped out, I also re-drilled and tapped it to allow the head assembly to be rotated 12 degrees anti-clockwise for brush advancement. This turned out to be fun, as 3 holes drilled out just fine then the 3mm pilot hole drill bit decided it would be fun to snap off in the 4th hole at 20mm depth 3mm below the surface of the hole!! 

Anyway, 6 hours later.... after a combination of drilling down onto the top of the broken bit with a 5mm combination masonary/metal bit on hammer action! (usually useless but better than HSS bits for this task!)then disintegrating it with a narrow pin punch about 1mm at a time, then drilling down another 1mm, etc.., the ba***rd thing was finally out! :rofl: 

Unfortunately, after completing drilling the hole, it was now far too "slack" to tap succesfully, so it was drilled out oversize and tapped for a helicoil, with this fitted the job was done at last, the remaining 3 holes took all of about 20 minutes to tap out perfectly! 

The pole shoes were re-painted and the casing re-assembled:










Following on from this, the end housings were top coated metallic silver along with the fan. The brush assembly was then washed with phosphoric acid to remove the build up of carbon and re-assembled to the head. 

The fan was re-attached to the armature, after first blowing out about 30 years of compacted dust from the armature windings and inspecting it. Here we are so far:


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Whilst apart, the front end cap needed some work also. The lifting tag was removed as it will be of no use now that the motor is going to be face mounted to the transmission bell housing via an alloy plate. The face was then drilled and tapped for 4 x 3/8 UNC mounting bolts. This was done in the same format as the ADC & Warp 9" motor mounting pattern.










Then moved on to build up the brush assembly and bus bars in the head:










OK, next job was to press the new bearing into the front end cap:


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

OK, now the exiting bit starts, we get to build it all back up...

First the front end cap onto the armature:










You'll notice the top bearing has also been pressed onto the armature prior to the build up.

Then the main casing is lowered into place (having first been painted Skoda Sportline Red to match the car  ):










Then the head assembly is carefully added to make the motor whole once more:










In the end I put the original brushes back in as having inspected them, they were in really good order, along with new brush tension springs, the end result is quite neat:


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

So, exactly 2 weeks from picking the motor up in it's original sorry state, everything was double checked and it was powered up from a large 12 volt battery for testing and run for an hour to observe it for proper function. I think it purred up to around 1500 rpm as smooth as silk 
 

A few finished piccies:





































And just to remind you of the contrast with how it started lol!! :










So there we have it, next job is to strip out the existing engine and transmission from the car and start working on the mounting plate to the transmission and the coupling.

Back soon... 

PS, purely out of interest, how old do you think this motor is?? I'd say maybe about 30 years old?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

favguy said:


> PS, purely out of interest, how old do you think this motor is?? I'd say maybe about 30 years old?


Close  It was probably made in the late 1970s. Nice job on the clean up. And I must be slipping. I said it was 25 slots and 75 bars. Obviously it has 2 coils per armature slot. So it is either 25 s & 49 b or 33 s & 65 b. Looks more like 65 comm bars. Should handle higher voltage nicely.

Those brushes look a bit on the short side. That's o.k. as long as the springs don't bottom out. Those type of coil springs give less force as they unwind. If you use this at very high RPM, the low brush pressure may let the brushes float off the comm. At moderate to low speed, the low pressure means less friction on the comm surface.

I hope you installed the wavy washer behind the C.E. bearing.

Regards,

major


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi major,

Yes its 65 bars. In the end I spoke to Jim Husted for a definitive on advancing it to run at 144v, I told him it had 65 bars and he said to advance it 10 to 12 degrees and that maybe I'd be OK nearer to 10 with it being 65. In the end I went with 12 degrees, as I'd rather be safe for the sake of a little more torque loss .

The brushes are a little worn down but the surfaces are great, seem OK at present, spring pressure wise, but I appreciate the advice, I'll probably change them either before finishing the project or within a few thousand miles before they get too low.

Excuse my ignorance, which end is the C.E. bearing? (C.E. = Control End?) There was no wavy washer! Didn't occur to me until now, is that to cushion/take up any end float? There is only a very slight amount of end float on the motor.

So do I need to get a wavy washer for it? I'm worried now


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

favguy said:


> Excuse my ignorance, which end is the C.E. bearing? (C.E. = Control End?) There was no wavy washer! Didn't occur to me until now, is that to cushion/take up any end float? There is only a very slight amount of end float on the motor.
> 
> So do I need to get a wavy washer for it? I'm worried now


Comm End = C.E. Yes, that bearing is the floater. D.E. (Drive End) bearing has the snap ring locking it in place. A wave spring washer is used on the C.E. bearing to prevent the outer race from spinning in the aluminum housing, which will eventually wear the bore and fail. A bearing supplier or McMasterCarr should have such a thing for that bearing size. Prestolite used the wave spring washer. Others used belleville thrust springs. Don't go that route, there isn't sufficient space for the bellevilles.

major


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Excellent thread Fav. Very impressive work all around and lots of pictures for us type challenged. Great paint jobs too. I love that battery box you built and how well it seats in.

All great except for your heater  Those things are not meant for continued operation and most don't even have motor ball bearings. I'd watch out for over heating from the heater element. My wife burns one of those every few months it seems. Besides, my hair is almost all gone so hair dryers are evil and not something I like to talk about.

JR


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

major,

I just love this forum and the people on it 

Many thanks for the heads up on the wavy washer, it must have been left out during previous maintenance, I've already sourced and ordered the right size for the bearing. Just been out to have a peep at the motor with a torch through the clearance around the hole where the output shaft exits the C.E. and the bearing is sat about 2mm away from the housing face, the wavy spring washer ordered compresses to just over 2mm when done up, so it should definately be there.

Once again, many thanks, i'll post a piccy of it being fitted when it arrives, in the meantime here it is:










Regards

Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

jroque,

Well it had a 3 year warranty, so I thought it might hold up for a while!! lol, It's not that cold here most of the time, so hopefully it won't get used that much, but I'll keep an eye on it for good measure..


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Well I finally got around to doing a little bit more on the project. Here's the coupler story, I'm going clutchless for simplicity. I know there are various ways of appoaching this solution, here's mine 

I started by setting about grinding off the rivets and removing the unnecessary friction disc, from a clutch disc. this left a nice shiny new torque damper. If this is where you expect a picture, er.. sorry, forgot to take one at this stage, I was having too much fun! So... moving swiftly on...

I welded the hub that came with the motor (having first removed the two large lug things that attached it to whatever output shaft was on it from its previous life!) to a suitable piece of 6mm plate steel, as both parts were over 5mm thick at the weld point, the juice on my MIG could be turned right up and a nice neat heavy weld achieved. I then trotted off to the local machine shop to get it worked over on a lathe to the right diameter and have any runout removed so that it will run exactly true. following this a trip to the pillar drill for the mounting holes and here's the end result:


















An alloy spacer ring was next made up from 5 inch round bar ordered cut accurately at 15mm and checked for complete flatness on a thick glass plate, turned out it was, completely flat that is! It was drilled out to suit and here it is finished:










The torque damper had to be split apart in order to insert the new mounting bolts and to allow the mounting plate to be centred and clamped tight to the other components for accurate drilling, this involved grinding off the rivet heads, removing the original rivets and replacing them with high tensile bolts, threaded spacers and nuts. These were torqued up to the maximum recommended and then the bolt end "rivetted" over the nut to ensure they stay as tight as the original rivets:










The next set of pictures shows the build up sequence to finished:


























I'm pretty happy with the end result and think it should go the distance, only time will tell  

hope to be back soon, Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

The adapter plate turned out to be very easy, the Favorit gearbox bell housing is nice and round, so easy to make a plate for. A 332mm x 332mm section of 25mm 6082T6 grade alloy plate was bought in.

It was taken to the local machine shop to be cut to 330mm outside diameter and 140mm internal diameter, with a part radius cut in the side to clear the half shaft.

I then marked it up and drilled it for mounting to the motor:










Once bolted tightly to the motor, I was ready to move on to the final drilling for the transmission mounting, but.....  

We can't just yet, as it seems I overlooked something else...

The motor was previously foot mounted and is now going to be used face mounted, it didn't occur to me when I drilled the face for mounting that the only part of the drive end housing that had actually been machined when the motor was made was the mating face to the steel yoke of the motor and the bearing housing, the face of the motor itself is as it came out of the casting mould and although that was fine in its previous life and it doesn't look to bad at a casual glance, it wasn't even close to perfectly flat and true! So it was removed from the motor and taken in to the machine shop to be worked over.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

OK, I made some more good progress over the weekend and another milestone completed, the adapter plate and coupler finished, installed & tested  

Started with the motor end cap which came back from the machine shop looking very nice and more importantly, now flat, so started by re-installing this onto the motor:


















Next the coupler was fitted to the motor:










The adapter plate was then bolted to the motor and the gearbox placed on top, aligned, clamped & finally drilled. Here's a pic. of it finished and ready to go onto the cars transmission:


















The gearbox I've used for prototyping is sacrificial, so a large cutout was made in the top to observe correct alignment and true running of the coupling at speed, flats were ground around the bell housing to allow for clamping prior to drilling and the rear mount had to be hacked off to give access for some of the drilling! Sad for this gearbox, but I can now be confident the now finished motor and adapter will bolt directly to the cars gearbox with perfect alignment.

A couple of pictures of the completed assembly rigged up ready for testing:


















And a close up showing the coupler in situ:










I tested at 24v in 5th gear, watching carefully to ensure the motor didn't run up to too fast a speed, it got up to about 3000rpm with the two old batteries powering it (and the smoking, knackered old jump leads!) nice and smooth, no vibration at all, so should all be good.

Next job is to strip out the cars engine bay, transfer the original gearbox to the motor and get the resultant drivetrain installed into the car. be back soon...  

Regards, Paul


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hello Paul. Fantastic work! It looks like it was done at the factory. I'm looking forward to see it roll down the street.

Are you working on the controller as well? It'd be interesting to see what work of art you come up with in building your controller.

Cheers,
JR


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Thanks JR, I'm most probably using the open revolt controller as my budget is tight and it seems to be working well for a lot of others who've tried it, If I do I'm going to be lazy on this one  as someone has offered to build one for me for $700, whereas, if I get the kit and build it myself, I only save $100 so seems to make sense.

Regards

Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Back again to what must be one of the slowest ever projects! I hope you havn't all lost interest by now :rofl: 

I think I'm going to call this installment:

The (petrol) Favorit is dead, long live the (electric) Favorit.  

On account of I'm actually going to get rid of the petrol drivetrain at last and install the motor, yay!! probably the most significant part of the build really, so here we go...

I started by removing all of the now surplus petrol drive related parts from the engine bay, the pile you see below isn't even all of it, there was also a carbon canister and a huge plastic box thing that was fitted before the air intake:










Surprisingly, the engine bay still looks quite full even with all that lot removed, below the drivetrain is ready for removal:










The driveshafts were firstly removed and spare splined shaft ends inserted into the gearbox to keep the crown wheel in place and we're ready to go. Removing the drive train complete on this car is remarkably easy and can be done by one man using the method shown. The trick is to get a sturdy table and place it underneath the car lift, the lift is then brought to about 6 inches above the sump, and wooden blocks are strategically placed under the engine and gearbox for support, carefully leaving an equal gap between all the blocks and contact surfaces. The lift is then slowly lowered until the blocks are in contact with the drivetrain, the final mounting bolts taken out and up goes the lift.. 

going...










going... 










gone...! 










It was almost too easy in the end!

And here we have a nearly empty engine bay ready for cleaning and prepping for the new electric drivetrain:










Back soon...

Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

As we can't be bolting a dirty old gearbox to the now very clean and shiny motor and mounting plate, I wanted to clean this up before fitting. The problem with aluminium is it gets covered in powdery white oxide over time (due to our crappy damp climate!) and if you spend hours carefully cleaning and polishing this all off, within a month or three, that shiny gearbox looks terrible again.

So I decided after cleaning it to paint it to make it look like factory fresh aluminium, but with no corrosion nonsense. After a coat of acid etch primer, primer & two coats of metallic silver basecoat, here she is: 




















I didn't laquer it as this would make it look too shiny, the satin finish of the basecoat looks very much like factory fresh alloy 

You'll also see in the last picture that I've fitted a blanking plate for the starter motor hole. This was made from 2mm stainless steel and given a nice brushed finish using coarse grade wet and dry.

OK, that's your lot for now, I'll be back very soon with mounting to the motor, engine bay prep. and drivetrain refitting. then we have to make the new drivers side motor mountings, having measured up, I know thats going to be, err... interesting 

Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

So where had we got to...

OK, it's time to finally mount the transmission to the motor permanently, build and fit the drivers side upper and lower mounting hardware, engineer and fit the rev. counter solution and make and fit the temperature sender to the motor. What we will then have is a pre-assembled complete drivetrain ready to bolt back in to the engine bay (after first cleaning it and touching in any minor paintwork that needs attention whilst it's empty). 

Starting with the mounting. This was a little more complicated than I had expected (although I didn't really know what to expect!) but turned out well after a little thought. The original mounting comprises an upper main mount on the end of the engine just below the head gasket joint. this also doubles as the water pump and this takes the main weight of the engine. At the bottom, below and to the rear of the right hand side of the engine is the lower mount this is at the end of a rod bolted to the subframe, the mount end bolts to a steel casting jutting out from and bolted to the rear of the engine and acts to control the twisting force of the engine when power is applied. So far so good, but when we replace the engine with a motor, the problem is there is just much less of it, so to speak! The top mount is above the top of the motor and the lower mount is well below and to the rear of it. 

Anyway after much sitting and contemplating, measuring, drinking of tea, considering direction of forces and making sketches, I had a plan... The first job was to remove the upper mount/water pump from the engine. The water pump parts were then removed and the pipe stub and pulley mounting castings cut off flush with the main casting. It was now beginning to resemble something other than a water pump. just to remind you all, the picture below is what it starts out looking like, the altered version can be seen further down on the finished mount:










With the original mount altered as necessary, I moved on to make the new assembly needed to interface the mounts with the new motor. Firstly the gearbox was mounted to the motor and the drivetrain put back in the car with the gearbox mount re-attached and the motor supported by a temporary sling from a beam placed across the engine bay, after much fine tuning, everything was aligned where it needed to be and measurements were taken to allow fabrication of the new steelwork. (sorry no pics of this, got too carried away to stop and take any!)

This was firstly prototyped in plywood and chopped around until I was happy with the results. It then took a total of seven hours of cutting, heating & bending, grinding, drilling & welding to convert a 600mm x 150mm plate of 4mm steel into what you see below. 

Picture below shows the assembly ready to paint after an hours soak in phosphoric acid. This removes the surface scale from black drawn steel along with any surface rust and leaves a phosphate coating to help prevent the dreaded rust: 










And after a coat of etch primer, more primer & gloss black top coat:










I must admit to being pleased at this point, this is the last of the structural metalwork finished, yay!! It's pretty much all electrical and a little bracketry from here on in. 

So the drivetrain was removed once again from the car and the modified (and now painted) upper mount bolted to the new mounting assembly, which in turn was mounted to the motor, now ready for it's final & permanent installation. 

But a little more fettling prior to this, starting with the solution to the rev. counter signal.

The later Favorits have the rev counter signal provided from the ECU, this in turn gets it's signal from the speed sensor mounted at the top of the flywheel. It sits above the flywheel behind the ring gear. at this point on the flywheel there are two sections cut out at 180 degrees to each other that the sensor picks up as the flywheel rotates. As we are losing the flywheel, the sensor needs to have this signal duplicated from something else. The solution was to relocate the sensor to the tailshaft of the motor and to provide a scaled down version of the flywheel arrangement via a pulley with cutouts the same percentage of the circumference as on the flywheel.

Using the pulley that came with the motor, this was turned down to an appropriate size and had the two sections cut out to generate the signal:

Primed:










Finished:










A suitable bracket was made to mount the sensor:










And everything assembled:










And fitted to the drivetrain:










As mentioned earlier, the signal for the rev counter is processed by the ECU, so I needed to keep it to do this. What I didn't need however was the huge ECU, loom and connections sat in the engine bay doing nothin else. So the loom was removed leaving just the speed sensor input along with positive and earth to the ECU and the rev counter signal wire. I wasn't sure if the ECU would still function and provide a signal with all the other sensor inputs now gone, but it does.

But I still don't now need/want this thing in the engine bay:










So, I stripped down the ECU to just the circuit board, soldered the necessary wires to it to run the rev counter only and mounted it into the smallest maplin component box that would fit:










It's still too large for what it's doing, but it will now mount neatly under the dash behind the glove box out of site.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

One more small job whilst the motor is out was to make a temperature sensor. this simply comprised drilling out a suitable length bolt and inserting the sensor that came with the dash guages fitted earlier using a little epoxy. This was then screwed into the motor casing using one of the now defunct original mount holes. The other five holes were blanked off with stainless grub screws and a little threadlock whilst I was at it.

Sensor:










Installed:










So, we've finally got a completed drivetrain ready for final installation:



















Next up, final engine bay prep, then in she goes! 

Back soon.

Paul


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Wowee, that craftsmanship is too beautiful to actually put into a mere automobile! Good looking work!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is a really nice and well planned process. You have got over a number of fiddly bits of work and come out with some really nice ideas and methods.

I like the temp sensor buried into an old bolt hole. The tach sensor looks really good.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes, really amazing build.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Thanks for the compliments guys, I always appreciate it  Although this is a shoestring build compared to some (although I think I'm at about £1750 so far with controller, charger, cells, cabling, contactor, breaker, fuses, inertia switch, vac. pump & misc. still to buy yet !!) I still want it to be a high quality end product with decent range and performance and to feel as oem as possible. 

Been busy again today, and I'm currently like a cat that got the cream  I've finally got over the biggest hurdle of the build to date, the electric drivetrain is now back in the car, it's really just all electrical work now and a little bit of bracket making!

First I spent a good three hours cleaning the engine bay and removing and painting some minor rust whilst it was easy to access with everything out, then moved on to put the drivetrain in, an absolute dream to install, just set it up on the table, lowered the car toward it, fine tuned the table, and lowered the car very gently onto the mounts. Then I slipped in the bolts and took the car back up on the lift complete with drivetrain. 

Just needed to shake the drivetrain to settle it on the mounts, then finally tighten all the bolts and re-install the drive shafts. A few pictures of the finished result are below. I can't believe how small the motor looks compared to all that petrol crap that came out! 














































That's it for today, tomorrow I'm re-filling the gearbox with fresh oil and test running it on 12v or 24v in first gear. going to use the starter solenoid as a contactor and run a temporary on off switch into the car and have a tootle round the yard with it


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

Great job there! Do you have any plan to protech your motor from water during raining day?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi,

Yes, I'm going to make a suitable undershield before it's finished to enclose the underside of the engine bay. The area behind the radiator will also be closed off to keep out the weather 

Paul


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Don't know how I missed this. Just went through the whole thread. Beautiful work! One of the highest quality builds I've seen, regardless of cost. What you spared in cost, you more than made up for in skill and sweat!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Many thanks for the compliments, you probably missed it as It's taking so long between updates, it keeps dropping off the radar for weeks on end!! 

Regards

Paul


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Really nice work Paul. I've just been checking out your car on the EV photo album. Trouble is, I see builds like yours and I want to tear mine apart and build it again properly...

I notice we're both using Prestolite motors. I've not seen one like yours before. It has a higher bar count than usual so should be good for higher voltage. Mine is a bit of an oddball as well. It looks similar to the MTC4001, but is slightly shorter.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Malcolm,

Thanks for the compliments , My motor is a bit odd, I havn't been able to find any information on it all all despite extensive searching, I'd like to know what it was in originally, but suspect I'll never get to find out, I do know whatever it was, it was painted JCB yellow and came from the late 70's!

Best regards,

Paul


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

favguy said:


> My motor is a bit odd, I havn't been able to find any information on it all all despite extensive searching, I'd like to know what it was in originally, but suspect I'll never get to find out, I do know whatever it was, it was painted JCB yellow and came from the late 70's!


Hi fav,

It is a Prestolite MNA-4001, 9.2" diameter motor. Originally went into a 72V forklift by Lansing Bagnal. And was factory black way-back-when 

major


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Thanks major, you really are a font of knowledge!  Would love to see a picture of the machine it was actually in, are there any about on the net do you know?

I now have a major (no pun intended major!) milestone to report...

My car is now officially electrically powered, yay!! 

Today I drove it (in a fashion!) using the motor. I connected up the cars 60Ah 12v battery to the motor via the old starter motor soleniod, with a lead from the soleniod run into the cabin to a rocker switch to turn it on and off.

After first switching it on and off in neutral to be sure it was running smoothly through the gearbox, I got into the car, and switch in hand got ready to go...talk about anticipation!

I really didn't actually expect much to happen, thought I would need to add another battery in series before it did much more than rock the car, but thought I'd try it anyway. Well!!... I couldn't believe it, put it in first and flicked the switch and.... it pulled off and accelerated to about 5mph!!! Woohoo!!! I drove it around my parents house and back on to the lift by which time it was getting sluggish  I measured up the distance travelled, a total of approx. 260 metres, (or 283 yards if you prefer). 

I haven't been able to stop grinning since .

I checked it out under the bonnet after the inaugural run and all was stone cold except the starter motor solenoid which hadn't appreciated bieng on for about 3 minutes, so it was hot. 

If it can pull like that from a 12v car battery, I can't wait to see what it's like on 144v, I'm pretty sure i'll never need to set off in first!!

I'm just sooo happy today

Regards,

Paul


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It's a great feeling isn't it.

Congratulations on your first 'drive'.

I remember that first 'drive' with my tractor, I just kept going back to it and connecting the battery with jump leads just to see it move. Then when the controller was first connected I would just shuffle it back and forth in the workshop grinning madly!

A quick Google for Lansing Bagnall 72V brings up this:


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> It's a great feeling isn't it.
> 
> Congratulations on your first 'drive'.
> 
> ...


I have a few of these forklift and it not from this forklift. I'll take a pic tomorrow and will show what this forklift motor look like
.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

albano said:


> I have a few of these forklift and it not from this forklift. I'll take a pic tomorrow and will show what this forklift motor look like.


Now that I think about it, maybe it was Montgomery Reid, not Lansing. It was a long time ago. And menory fades  But Prestolite had a plant in Cheltenham, UK and this was the first 9" motor they made. It was for a British forklift.

major


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Congratulations on your first diy EV drive . Can't wait to see it skid along on 144V.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Did a little bit more testing today just to amuse myself, rigged up 2 12v car batteries in series to give 24v, took it for a spin, setting off in 1st even spun the wheels slightly as I've only got full on or off at present, so changed to setting off in 2nd, much smoother, got to just over 10mph! Did a total of about 600 metres around the house a few times, tested shifting between second and third up and down, worked great clutch free!

I Had to stop after this as the second battery is only 40Ah and on it's last legs anyway, so was not at all happy by then! 

Also did a no load running test in neutral, 24v took the motor up to 2000rpm, nice and smooth, no vibration, so thats good. Anyway couple of pictures of the temporary rig up below:



















OK, that's it for playing, got to get back to building now


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A little risky there.

The general rule is not to run the motor unloaded at more then 12V as a series dc motor can spin itself to death.

Glad to see you having fun with it though.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi woody,

I know, but I kept an eye on the rev counter, and ready to cut power if needed, but it's got some drag spinning the gearbox internals and it will only go up to and settle on 2000rpm with the 2 batteries!

Paul


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah it's not really unloaded.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hello All,

I've been feeling a bit left behind of late having seen all the fantastic progress of UK builds on here recently, so thought I better post an update. (As it's been almost a year since the last ) I'm thinking I must be in the running for the longest ever project build time award or something! 

OK, so where had we got to... Controller first I think...

I bought the Open Revolt 500A controller kit back in April from Paul & Sabrina. I have to commend Paul and all the others who've worked on this thing, it really is a nicely developed kit, also to Paul especially, for such excellent packaging and assembly instructions.

I finally got to building it over the last two or three weeks, sailing through the control board build with my 30 watt soldering iron, but the 100 watt soldering gun I had wouldn't touch the power board due to the large ground plane sapping away the heat so quickly. (When the intructions say you need a 200 watt iron/gun, they mean it!) I finally sourced a 200 watt iron (from Germany at 1/4 the price of UK irons, why do we pay so much more for everything in the UK??) with the biggest copper tip I've ever seen on a soldering iron which did the job effortlessly due to it's large thermal mass.

Here are a few pics of the finished controller, I did add a second temperature sensor at the other end of the Aluminium heat spreader. This feeds my dash mounted Temp. guage:





































Having scratched my head for ages over what to do at the end cap regarding the control wiring, as I didn't want to leave it just sticking out, I came across an 8 pin Bulgin plug and socket. These are compact, well made (bieng designed for 230v use) and also just seem to "look right" 










The enclosure top turned up looking like nice shiny brushed Aluminium and I considered leaving it at this, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't anodised and due to our lovely damp UK climate that means it would have a not so nice white powdery oxide finish after a few months on the car so I gave it a paint system and finished it satin black. I might buy a nice "Open Revolt" sticker for it in due course. 










I've got to do some more testing then I'll seal it up and bond on the end caps using PU adhesive sealant and post a finished pic.

I'm also considering bolting it to a large finned heatsink, but not sure about the need for this as yet... anyone with experience of running one of these want to comment?

In addition to the controller, I've done some more metalwork. Finishing the front battery rack, closure panel for the hole left by the radiator and modified, larger under shields to get the engine bay much more water tight than it was with the ICE in it. 

I've also sourced all of the vacuum brake system parts, contactor, pack fuse and main breaker.

I'll post picures of this up shortly.

Oh, I've also sourced and installed a JLD404 Ah meter in the last part of the dash not already filled with meters!!  so I'll post up some pics of this soon also.

So, we are slowly getting there. Left to do is build the control shelf above the motor, component mounting, main pack wiring and conduits, control circuits wiring, battery placement, charger, DC/DC etc...

Although the car has been built for and is going to have a 153.6v nominal lithium pack, I don't have funding for this as yet, so I've acquired some lightly used 110Ah 12v traction batteries, 72v worth. These will be used to allow me to get the car finished to the point where it can pass an MOT test and be registered and taxed for use as an EV. I'm expecting initial performance with the 72v Lead to be modest, something like a max. speed of 45-50 with a range of around 10 to 15 miles, so not too exciting, but at least I can get it on the road. I'm aiming to have this milestone done by the end of September at latest.

Be back soon, 

Paul


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Paul

Great to see some progress 

Not wanting to scare you but the last time you updated this thread I hadn't started my conversion!

I took the same route with the LA to get it on the road and through the MOT. I will upgrade to Lithium once I'm happy with the rest of it!

Cheers,

Mike


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

A small update, I've now tested the controller out, all is good , so the enclosure and end caps have been fitted and the unit sealed up ready for fitting.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

favguy said:


> I'm also considering bolting it to a large finned heatsink, but not sure about the need for this as yet... anyone with experience of running one of these want to comment?


I'm no expert on the ReVolt, but unless it's magically more efficient than everyone else, you'll need a heat sink for it. Not sure about the UK, but there's great options on ebay here for $20-30.



favguy said:


> Oh, I've also sourced and installed a JLD404 Ah meter in the last part of the dash not already filled with meters!!  so I'll post up some pics of this soon also.


I'd like to see those pics. I'm reworking my instrument panel to make room for another JLD404. Just one plus 7 other meters ain't enough!


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## alvin (Jul 26, 2008)

That controller looks great. I have been using mine 3 years now ,this month. I do have it mounted to a finned heat sink. I ordered the sink from heat sink usa .

My controller temp is usually about 115 F

Alvin


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Right, I'm back, so much for getting on the road by the end of September... 

I am however determined to be the next UK guy to get an MOT as I'm feeling a bit left out now.

I've only got to finish some battery cabling, battery hold downs & 12v control wiring and I'm good to go for the MOT, I've done quite a lot of stuff over the last few weeks, so here is the update, in no particular order:

Starting with the controller, I managed to find a nice heatsink on ebay, so this was cut down to size and monted to the base of the controller by drilling and tapping four M5 blind holes into it, not forgetting a nice layer of heat transfer paste:










Should help keep it nice and cool.

I also filled the last remaining space in the dash with a JLD404, so I can keep track of Ah's used. This was a bit of a case of fitting a square peg in a round hole, and after much head scratching to decide how to best make it work, decided to set it in place with resin. So I set up the casing in the dash cubby hole, having first cut out the rear of the hole for cabling. It was taped up liquid tight at the rear and I poured in black casting resin up to the level where the front face clips on. Turned out quite well I think:



















I'll throw this one in for good measure, although not directly related to the conversion:










Got rid of the awful original wheel by replacing it with a nice stitched leather sports wheel, and also matching leather gearknob. Note the "Electric" logo I had made for the wheel centre! 

Anyway, back to the conversion...

Braking system, Managed to get a nice new Landrover vacuum pump from ebay for a steal, along with an Audi vacuum chamber, and adjustable (to -30Hg) pressure switch and guage:










Spent another few hours deciding on the best way to mount this lot and prototyping mounting brackets, then mounted it all together, think it turned out quite nicely:










As you can see I've got to finish to control relay and wiring for this, but have tested it down to -30Hg and held it for a couple of hours with no loss of vacuum, so far so good. 

One thing I was worried about was that it might be loud in operation, having read how noisy some of the kits are on here. Turns out to actually be pretty quiet, so my advice would be to go for this type of pump (Landrover, VW/Audi etc.) over the apparantly much louder (and much more expensive!) kits.

OK, so brakes are all but done, what's next?...

Control shelf, construction, component mounting:

Having thought about the best way to do this for some time, I ended up using a strut brace bar from a Skoda Felicia as an upper support for the shelf structure. The Favorit never had one of these, but the Felicia's all got them, and as the Felicia is a rebodied Favorit.... it fits perfectly. 

The front battery rack then acts as the lower mounting point for the control shelf frame.

I decided to build the shelf support frame from light weight galvanised angle as it keeps the weight down and is quite adequate for the weight of the control gear. It also saves me painting all that framework!

I decided to go the simple route for the control shelf itself, using 12mm external plywood. Cut and machined it as needed, then sanded, primed and painted it. Primitive but effective.

You can also see the front battery rack in the below pictures. This is built from more conventional 3mm wall thickness 40mm angle with captive nuts, and brackets welded in, so it drops right in and is bolted to the front outriggers in four places.

The flat panel you can see is the closing panel to waterproof the engine bay at the front where the radiator was.

I've also built an undershield to enclose the lower engine bay, It's not photographed yet, I'll come on to it later.



















Control shelf finished, controller mounted and 70mm motor/controller loop cabling finished:














I


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

The next shot shows the front battery rack in place, with two of the 110Ah Floodies present (I'm running a total of six of these initially, just to get road legal and test out the car and systems, then onto 144v nominal of proper lithium! )










Still got to do the battery hold down at this point.

The next picture shows the control box with the main cabling done and the throttle and pot box set up. The 12v control wiring, pre-charge and instrument wiring is still to do:










Before anyone mentions it, I know there isn't a secondary spring on the throttle yet! 

The next shots are of overall progress to date. The space left on the shelf is for future placement of the DC/DC converter. This will be run in conjunction with the small 40Ah accessory battery you can see in the rear right of the shots.

The black grommet in the control box lid is to allow access to connect the emergency shut off cable to the main breaker once the box lid is on.




























That'll do for now, I'll be back soon, the plan is to have the car ready for, and MOT'd by the end of next week


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Paul,
You may not be the fastest, but you're putting the rest of us to shame with the quality of your work. I'm sure it will pay off in the end. First class!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Very nice looking build. What's the black roundish connector on the revolt?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey Paul,

Looking very good!! I wish my car looked as good as yours, lovely job you're doing.

That controller looks like mine!! Good idea fitting a second thermocouple, I might steal that idea!

My controller seems to run fine just bolted down to the ply. I'm monitoring in RTD Explorer (not every drive but probably one in ten) and I see no problems with over heating but if you can mount it on a heatsink easily and cheaply then why not.

I'm trying to tweak performance of my controller but haven't had much luck yet...having said that I've only had about 20 mins to try and figure it out!! 2 kids under 3 will do that!! I haven't really found out what parameters mean (C-RR and Ki?) but will try and figure out how to change things. I'm just running as received at present. I'm also using without end plates either!! Bad me!! Great controller I think so far...great!

Could I ask where you got your JLD404? I think there might be one coming in my stocking this Christmas!! I've found them on that US site Light Object?

Well done, looking very good!!

Cheers,

Adam



favguy said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I've been feeling a bit left behind of late having seen all the fantastic progress of UK builds on here recently, so thought I better post an update. (As it's been almost a year since the last ) I'm thinking I must be in the running for the longest ever project build time award or something!
> 
> ...


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ahhh good work!

Need mine back on the road now!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi all,

Malcolm, Thanks for the kind words 

Ziggythewiz, The round connector you mention, it's a 7 pin socket to connect the 12v control wiring to the controller, there's just a plug in it in the last pictures, it's not wired yet.

Ace, I can't shed any light on the controller programming yet, I've only tested it following building it for function by using a starter motor and the throttle, it worked fine on that, it better work on the car, as I don't fancy pulling off the end caps now they're sealed on! 

Do you happen to know the correct command for RTD Explorer to turn on 
and set the contacter control wait time?

The fact your controller works well with no heat sink is very good news indeed, having built one of these, I'm extremely impressed with the overall design of it, Infact, I've heard of no failures at all of the Revolt controllers except that early version 1 that failed due to a short through heatshrink used at the time around one of the busbar mounting bolts, even then, it was easily fixed, and can't happen anymore on the later design. All praise to Paul Holmes! 

I bought the JLD from Light Object also. Quite a competitive price from them.

Kind regards,

Paul


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## alvin (Jul 26, 2008)

favguy said:


> Do you happen to know the correct command for RTD Explorer to turn on
> and set the contacter control wait time?
> 
> l


 
Here is a link. The parameters are in a sticky thread. Pre charge is pc-time. I think it is 1/10 (30 = 3 sec.)

Alvin


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

You may need to gain access to the controller during your testing/setup phase as there is a trim pot on the control board which I believe adjusts motor amps...I've not played with mine yet rolleyes but you may need to remove those beautifully sealed end plates!

I feel shamed looking at the quality of your work!

Proper nice job. I want to remove pretty much everything under the bonnet and re-hash the whole lot dropping the lead down as far as it'll go to free up space and drop the centre of mass of the front of the car....and it would get theb battery terminals a little further away form the underside of the bonnet!!

Your car looks great.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

favguy said:


> Do you happen to know the correct command for RTD Explorer to turn on and set the contacter control wait time?


If you use RTD explorer the right command is "pc-time" and desired wait time in seconds * 10. For example, pc-time 10 means controller will output +12V to contactors after one second. 20 means two seconds and so on. Contactor output will output nothing until you set that pc-time parameter.

I had my controller fail like you described, though it wasn't my controller that was first to fail like that. I had earliest version of power PCB. It was a good bang. Nothing but few mosfets and diodes got damaged. I replaced all the mosfets and power PCB with latest one. No problems since. Well maybe bad throttle pot but that is going to get solved in somewhat near future.

I also had a top cover painted like yours. It screams for OpenRevolt logo to the top part, heheh.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice regarding RTD Explorer 

Ace, My understanding of the trim pot you talk of is it's only for overcurrent protection and should be set at it's mid point at build, it then only kicks in somewhere over 500 Amps, it isn't to limit current pull from the batteries at all, just to protect the controller in the event of software control failure. (well it better be anyway, as If I have to cut off the end caps I'll go ape lol!!)

The controller will be getting a pretty logo in due course 

Today was a bit frustrating, took me forever to work through some of the control wiring and I balsed up and blew one of the cars fuses using one of the wrong "old" cars (what I thought was) engine bay ignition switched supplies! Insomnia induced daytime zombie syndrome 

Then only after having finished installing the pre-charge resistor, I noticed it was marked 20 Ohm 100 Watt!!! instead of the opposite, so I took it out again, ordered the right one and decided to call it a day, before I buggered up anything else!

Anyway, on a finishing note, I've now got bragging rights to go around telling everyone my cars runs motors built by Tesla!!...










OK, only the windscreen washer motors, lol!!!

Back soon


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

favguy said:


> My understanding of the trim pot you talk of is it's only for overcurrent protection and should be set at it's mid point at build, it then only kicks in somewhere over 500 Amps, it isn't to limit current pull from the batteries at all, just to protect the controller in the event of software control failure. (well it better be anyway, as If I have to cut off the end caps I'll go ape lol!!)


It limits motor amps. I turned it all the way counter-clockwise and I get ~400A to the motor now, even though in Revolt schematics it reads "VR1 full CCW = 495A". 500A to motor resulted in clutch slip. Poor stock clutch. Battery amps can't be higher than motor amps so it effectively reduces maximum battery amps to 400A too. You can set battery amp limit separately using RTD explorer.


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## colinrickards (Mar 6, 2012)

Fav, I've been working my way through your thread and you have one the nicest cleanest builds I've ever seen. Nice job!
I'm in the planning stages of mine and you are definitely setting the bar for mine. How could I not do it at this level of quality?

I do have some questions, 
You mentioned you acid bathed a bunch of parts, transmission and acid primed? some others.
Is that a kit or just a big tub and buy a few gallons of some form of acid? 
can you filter and reuse it? 
safe disposal?
also for the paint, any brands to recommend? did you bake it or hit it with a heat lamp at all to dry?

I'm thinking this is something I'm going to want to do with my project as the results of yours have been fantastic!

Keep up the great work!
Cheers,
-Colin.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

colinrickards said:


> Fav, I've been working my way through your thread and you have one the nicest cleanest builds I've ever seen. Nice job!


I agree, it looks great doesn't it. Cleanest UK build I think...makes me feel like hanging my head in shame!!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

Colin,

I just use phosphoric acid to clean steel/remove rust. 40% to 80% is readily available. It's often found at stores (or ebay) that sell pond maintenance products as they use it to get the PH right in alkaline water.

I usually thin it out 1 to 2 or 3 with water and pour it into a plastic container for dipping rusty parts that can be left overnight, or use it neat mixed well with a little flour to make a gel that can be used on car bodywork and left on for an hour or two covered with clingfilm so it doesn't dry out. Then wipe, wash it off. This works better to remove rust properly than any commercial rust treatments I've ever tried!

You can filter out debris and reuse it again and again 

Make sure you wear gloves and don't splash any on concrete or masonry as it will eat concrete like anything!!

In the event of any spills and skin contact, just use copious amonts of water to dilute it, it will sting on skin in high concentration, but it's not too dangerous with normal precautions, after all it's in coke...!! 

I've never had to finally dispose of any yet, but diluting with lots of water should do it until it's negligable, after all, as said earlier, they use it in ponds.

As for painting, I usually just use a thin coat of acid etch primer, Upol normally as my local auto paint supplier has it, followed by ordinary primer and then colour coats, again Upol aerosols.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I've been working steadily on the car, the day job has, as ever, has kept getting in the way, but I'm very nearly ready for the MOT now .

I've spent a a good full four days finishing up all the control wiring, building safety interlocks on the gear selector to lock out the throttle function when out of gear, installing the impact switch cut off circuit and manual emergency circuit breaker control, finishing the voltmeter/ammeter/temperature guages wiring etc.. Doesn't actually look like much progress actually, but seems to have taken ages.

I've tested it all out with just 12v on the main pack at this point. All seems good.

Just have to run the last battery box cabling now and then overhaul the brakes, and I'm off for the MOT 

Finished control box:










Access to switch off/reset main breaker:


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## colinrickards (Mar 6, 2012)

Excellent thanks for the info!
It's all the little tips and tricks that make these things pay off.

I know as with most projects everyone starts on something and then thinks on what you'd want to do for your next one.

Any thoughts on another car? What make/model is next on your hit list?

-Colin



favguy said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Colin,
> 
> ...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

OK, so I've got the control wiring finished and tested out at last . 

One thing that's been bothering me for a while is that an MOT tester, or any other third party for that matter can "blip" the throttle as you might in an ICE when the car is in neutral and we all know how that can end!

So I built a throttle override switch to run in parallel with the throttle and keep resistance at zero when not in gear. 










The two microswitches are normally closed and wired in series so keeping the throttle locked out until either switch is activated by engaging a gear. One switch covers 1,3,5, the other 2,4,R. 

You can see it fitted below along with an additional control disk monted on the gear linkage.



















OK, that's it for now, better get on with the battery cables and brakes, MOT is booked for next week, at last..


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

That's pretty awesome. Do you have a clutch?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

No clutch


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Me neither, which makes downshifting rather difficult for me. I think it'd be easy to modify your design to limit the throttle instead of killing it, so blipping the throttle while in neutral would rev the motor, but only to a speed that makes shifting into 2nd easy.

That might let me actually use my gears...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hmm, That's an interesting thought, You could add a suitably sized resistor to allow it easily enough. I'm hoping I won't need it as the synchros seem to work well on this box, but we'll soon see..


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Me neither, which makes downshifting rather difficult for me. I think it'd be easy to modify your design to limit the throttle instead of killing it, so blipping the throttle while in neutral would rev the motor, but only to a speed that makes shifting into 2nd easy.


One possibility could be to fit an inductive proximity sensor to the motor tailshaft and hook that to an adjustable rpm switch like this: http://www.intellitronix.com/rpm-switches.html
These are also available on US Ebay.

I'm using one of these rpm switches with the prox switch recommended by Evnetics. I have the NO output from the rpm switch connected across the controller throttle input so that it shorts the throttle when the rpm reaches 5000 rpm, but you can set the limit anywhere between 2000 and 9000 rpm. In practice this means the revs climb to the limit and just bounce gently off it.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

An inaugural voyage, and the longest MOT... 

I've been grinning like a demented cheshire cat all day today. I'd been scurrying around all weekend finishing a brake system overhaul on the car along with fitting new shocks, springs, lower control arms, track rod ends and not forgetting the rear battery hold down brackets.

Anyway, at 8:45 this morning I set off to the MOT appointment with some apprehension, being the first time on the road, and the first time the car would be used "properly" with the controller, cabling and management systems installed and beyond the previous 24v "on/off" test I did around the yard after fitting the motor.

So, with some very gentle throttle we set off out of the workshop and down the drive to the public highway, so far so good, no unexpected noises. Once on the road, a bit more throttle and off we went, changed up through 2nd, 3rd, and into 4th as the car got close to 50mph. All nice and smooth, no vibration and just a hint of that fantastic electrical motor whirring noise as the RPM's increased, talk about EV grin, I was all but laughing hysterically by now!! 

The car is currently running 72v of used 110Ah Varta floodies and I really didn't expect it would accelerate very well or maintain much of a speed over 40mph. I think it would have approached 60mph if I'd kept on giving it enough throttle, but didn't want to push anything on the first trip. Average current to hold about 30mph on the level was around 80A to100A, accelerating was pulling 200A to 300A and I just touched 400A at one point accelerating up a slight incline. 

It all seems to be in order and would suggest a pretty low Wh/m figure. I'm really very happy so far bearing in mind it's running on crappy batteries at only 72v. I absolutely can't wait to get it running on 144v of Lifepo4 now... 

So, got to the garage and showed it to the MOT tester, who was firstly astounded at the condition of my 18 year old car, then gobsmacked as I showed him the fact it was now electrically powered and instructed him how to power it up for use. 

I ended up putting it on the lift for him and doing the brake roller test myself under his instruction, as he was nervous about driving it. He did insist on calling everyone else over to stare in awe at the engine bay and under carriage!! It really was quite surreal.

The fun ended with the garage owner, about six mechanics and a passing customer milling around and under the car, the MOT took 90 minutes in the end, 15 minutes was actually the test. Great fun this EV thing...

Oh, needless to say it passed...










Merry Christmas everyone


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Awesome news!!! Another UK EV on the road in 2012... just!!!

Very well done, you must be very happy!!!

Merry Christmas!!!


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Hah! Sounds like you had lots of fun! Congratulations!


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## agniusm (Apr 30, 2012)

This is one of the cleanest builds i have seen. I admire you going used forklift way and then making it look better than new motors as well as using open source controller and overall all bits DIY. This is just amazing and perhaps i will be not out of line saying for everyone that we want vids now 
Happy Christmas and congrats on the completion.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Congratulations!

santapod?


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## cpct (May 31, 2012)

Congratulations! It sure is rewarding when everyone wants to have a look 

By the way, where did you get that "pull cord circuit breaker"? Is it a requirement for EVs in the UK?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

To CPCT,
The breaker is just a normal 160v DC, 250A constant rated unit with the toggle drilled to accomodate a remote disconnect cable. There are no specific requirements regarding EV's in the UK at present to my knowledge, it's just part of my own solution to managing an emergency situation. 

Now I have some very exciting news, (at least for me!) After only four years & eight months my car is officially registered as a road legal EV here in the UK!!!

I took a trip to the local(ish) DVLA office today, I was a bit nervous and for some reason, half expected to get a load of jobsworth type hassle... Anyway, as it turned out after some initial confusion as to how to proceed and a five minute discussion between the desk staff and the office manager it was done and my new tax disc was issued. 










There was no need for them to see the car because of the evidence I took in with me. Proving the car actually is an EV for tax reasons seems to be the only current concern.

Thankfully, (at least for now), the UK seems to be totally ignoring (or oblivious to?) the european VN/ECE R10 EMC regulation and all the horrors that go with it. (As many of our european friends on here can attest to!)

For other UK EV'ers reference, when going to the DVLA to do this, in addition to the usual MOT and Insurance docs. I'd advise taking along photo's of the build showing motor, batteries, etc. Also get the garage that did the MOT for you to write you a brief letter confirming they've inspected the car and can confirm it is solely electrically driven by an onboard battery, this seems to negate any need to take the car over to them for inspection.

I owe you all some more up to date pictures of my updates to the project, so I'll try to get back soon.

Paul


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

favguy said:


> To CPCT,
> The breaker is just a normal 160v DC, 250A constant rated unit with the toggle drilled to accomodate a remote disconnect cable. There are no specific requirements regarding EV's in the UK at present to my knowledge, it's just part of my own solution to managing an emergency situation.
> 
> Now I have some very exciting news, (at least for me!) After only four years & eight months my car is officially registered as a road legal EV here in the UK!!!
> ...


Great news!

Just thought that I would add that I had to get a letter from a DIFFERENT garage for the one that did the MOT to get the log book/v5c. 

Just a thought for anyone looking to do this 

Keep it up Paul!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Wow, that seems a bit pedantic, I suppose it depends on how helpful the local DVLA office choose to be! 

Assuming it was the local office, or did you get post application correspondence from Swansea?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

favguy said:


> Wow, that seems a bit pedantic, I suppose it depends on how helpful the local DVLA office choose to be!
> 
> Assuming it was the local office, or did you get post application correspondence from Swansea?


Exactly!

Took all of the docs to the local office who check them and send them to swansea for you.

luckily my local office is only about 10 miles away.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Just a tiny update for now. I got my custom made front grill badge back from the manufacturer today, so the car has now been re-branded to 
"FAV-E" (short for Favorit Electric )


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## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

favguy said:


> Just a tiny update for now. I got my custom made front grill badge back from the manufacturer today, so the car has now been re-branded to
> "FAV-E" (short for Favorit Electric )


Where did you have it made?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi,
The badge was done by : www.heko.co.uk They will pretty much make you anything you like if you send them a design, or you can self design a lot of stuff online automatically. (UK based though, you'd need to ask about international delivery)


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Paul, inspiring, articulate work, thank you. CyO


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Sorry, this duplicate is an upps. Paul, inspiring, articulate work, thank you. CyO


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words CyO. 

Thought it was time for an update...

Although the car is now road legal, I've not quite finished it yet, but I am on the home straight at last. 

I've replaced the used test floodies with a properly installed pack of 10x100Ah (10Hr rate) new AGM's now. So I've got a 120v system. I'll get some pictures done of these and post them up soon. These should give a safe range of about 20 miles, maybe 25 Max. and should last a couple of years or so until I upgrade to 144v nominal of Lifepo4. The car was built to accommodate 48x180Ah/200Ah of lithium, but it's just not affordable at present.

I'm also currently waiting for a 2.5Kw Elcon charger to arrive from china, so once this is here I can start to actually to use the car!! Should be here in a week or two at most now. It has can bus, so hopefully I can rework it for lithium when the time comes. 

I've still got to build a set of ten balancers for the batteries before the charger gets here, parts are on the way for this as I write.

Other than this, I still have to install the DC/DC and finish the heater control wiring. Fit a few boots over the exposed terminals under the bonnet along with some high voltage warning labels and it's done. 

Well I say done, but I might add forced air cooling for the motor dependant on how hot it runs, etc...etc...

The DC/DC is ready to install, a couple of piccies for you of the build & finished contraption...





































It actually ended up costing me about £140-£150 to build this. I could have bought a Chinese one for less, although It wouldn't have served for the current 120v system and the future upgrade to 144v, which this one will. Also, hopefully it won't blow up within the year..... although only time will tell on this .

What you can see in the box other than the 3 Vicor modules (100v to 200v input range, 14.2v output after trimming) is an input filter comprising a 100uH Inductor & 100uf Capacitor. There's also a diode & inrush limiter on the input, master fuse @ 10A, along with secondary fusing for each module @5A.

The outputs from each of the 3 modules run through Schottky diodes to a common node, with additional resistors added to make the modules current share nicely using the "droop share" method as all 3 are masters. This also allows for redundancy and protects the remaining units against getting taken out if one goes bad. There are also some additional trim resistors hiding in there somewhere to get the output down to 14.2v from 15v.

The relay you can see switches on the unit via the motor controllers 12v contactor output so is delayed until the pre-charge is finished.

I've tried to heat sink everything as much as possible and all components are rated for at least 150% of the expected maximum current ratings . The modules themselves are bolted to a 5mm Aluminium plate which in turn is in contact with the 3mm Aluminium box itself, all using heat sink transfer paste.

The output is 450w @ 14.2v

Oh, before anyone comments, the output cables aren't bare copper lol! They just look like it in the picture, they are unusually insulated with a clear thick-wall PVC instead of colour.

Allowing for decent component selection, development and a little labour, it's very easy to see why decent DC/DC converters cost what they do... 

Back soon.

Paul


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Further updates...

Firstly, the DC/DC. 

A member on here has asked if I can elaborate on the build of this for the benefit of everyone. So here goes. 

I've made some changes since the last posting as initially it wouldn't current share equally between modules under increasing load. I'd tried to get away using fixed resistor values with .1% tolerance values, expecting it would be OK as the modules were all the same spec. It wasn't! So I added Trim pots for fine tuning. Next it drooped far too much under load, so I also changed out resistors R1 & R2 to a much lower value. I also added common additional heat sinking to the output diodes to keep them all cooler and running at the same temps, this keeps the voltage drop across them more in sinc. so they keep sharing nicely as load increases. I've also added a cooling fan to suck air through to stop excessive heat build up in the unit. It needs this as the current limiter and output diodes run hot at high loads. (this is as it should be, but if the radiated heat is left to build up in a sealed enclosure, everything else will get too hot).

I fine tuned the 3 trim pots whilst measuring voltage drop under load across each diode along with current flow in each modules output. It now shares really well across all 3 modules. 

I've soak tested it under light, half & full loads for a period of more than 2 hours so far, all seems good and the modules hardly get warm. The cooling fan seems to be keeping the enclosure at a sensible temperature.



If you can get your hands on a master Vicor brick and matching slaves, you won't need to bother with any of the following output circuitry at all, just link up the in and out gates on the modules as per the Vicor manual.

However, often this isn't possible at the right price, as in my case, so a set of masters has to be accommodated, the following output circuit is very cost effective, if a little bit of work! This is tuned to work specifically with the 150v nominal input bricks. These will give you reliable service from 100v to 200v input. The 15v output can be trimmed to your preference from about 13.5v upwards. 450w output using 3 bricks.

Firstly the input side:



A, Transient Voltage Suppressor. 25.6v To protect the controllers contactor output

B, Relay, 12v nominal coil, 160v DC

C, 30mm diameter 12v nominal cooling fan

D, Fuse, 10A DC rated

D1, Diode, 15A 200v

E, NTC thermistor (current limiter) 10R (think about 20A rated, but use at least 10A)

F, Radial inductor 100uH 7.8A

F2, Fuse 5A DC rated

G, Capacitor 100uF 200v


The output circuit. (2 modules are shown, just add to as needed for 3, or more)



R1, 36 ohm 1% tolerance

R2, 20 ohm 1% tolerance

R3, 50K ohm 1% tolerance

R4, 90K ohm 1% tolerance

R5, 10K Cermat Potentiometer

D1, Schottky diode 20A 45v

The above is obviously duplicated for each module in the string.


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Hi,
sadly I do not have enough electronic skills to understand what you say, but I would like to know, if the heat mentioned has any value for heating the vehicle in cold climes or am I way off?
CyO


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi CyO,
It would be utterly negligible to be of any use for heating the cabin of the car, it just vents to outside the box.


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

favguy said:


> Hi CyO,
> It would be utterly negligible to be of any use for heating the cabin of the car, it just vents to outside the box.


Yes I guessed. Many thanks favguy for taking the time to respond.
CyO


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Me neither, which makes downshifting rather difficult for me. I think it'd be easy to modify your design to limit the throttle instead of killing it, so blipping the throttle while in neutral would rev the motor, but only to a speed that makes shifting into 2nd easy.
> 
> That might let me actually use my gears...


Just reviewing the amazing work done here and thought about the act of downshifting and blip-ping the pedal, it certainly would be a worry for me in the early stages, and describing the problem to my wife or anyone else that used the vehicle.
Has there been any developments on this matter?


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Just for information regarding shifting without the clutch on my Golf EV...

Getting into second has to be done when stopped. It will not go in if the car is moving at all.

Upshifting is OK (2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th) although it takes a few seconds.

I have given up trying to use the throttle to aid down shifting. 4th to 3rd is my main down shift and I just allow the car to do the speed match for me. I gently push the gear stick half into gear and wait for the dog clutches (is that the correct term?) To spin the box up to the required speed. I can hear the box\motor spinning up to speed before she finally slips into gear. Quite a nice technique, I can get into 3rd at 40mph with this technique.

Also I turned into my car park the other day thinking I was in gear but I was actually in neutral. I hiyt the throttle and spun the motor quite fast...the world didn't end, my motor didn't run off to 50,000 rpm and nobody died. As long as the motor is connected to a gearbox it is not an unloaded motor.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Cyo,

I can't "blip" the throttle between gears as I've actually locked out the throttle in neutral to avoid the risk of overspeeding the motor. Having now driven the car round for a bit, I can advise in my case it isn't an issue, but I can only change down to 2nd when stopped or at very low speed, due to the torque it isn't an issue as acceleration in 3rd is good at most speeds other than dead slow. I can change up through 2,3,4,5 and down through 5,4,3 at will, just 2nd doesn't like the down shift unless dead slow!

The above will vary depending on your transmission and synchromesh.

Regards,

Paul


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

favguy said:


> Hi Cyo,
> 
> I can't "blip" the throttle between gears as I've actually locked out the throttle in neutral to avoid the risk of overspeeding the motor. Having now driven the car round for a bit, I can advise in my case it isn't an issue, but I can only change down to 2nd when stopped or at very low speed, due to the torque it isn't an issue as acceleration in 3rd is good at most speeds other than dead slow. I can change up through 2,3,4,5 and down through 5,4,3 at will, just 2nd doesn't like the down shift unless dead slow!
> 
> ...


 Thanks Paul, your experience is most helpful. Many years ago, when I had an old Triumph Mayflower the clutch was operated by a rod, which snapped going through the Mersey tunnel, I still had 10 mile to go and in that time I learnt to change gear, up and down without the clutch, so I can see what you are saying.
Cy


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Build completion update!!! 

OK, The car is now pretty much finished, as in it can be used reliably on a daily basis. It isn't completely finished of course (are they ever?) I've got some underbody shielding to fit, some very minor glitches to sort out, such as interference with the radio and the cruise control won't engage (I don't think this is EV related). I'll let you all know what I've done first, then give some performance stats, so far I've driven it 250 miles in just over a week... 

So to start.. I've re-jigged the heating. The hairdryer worked well in testing and didn't seem too loud, but having used it in the car whilst driving, It wasn't in keeping with the now hushed environment of the car as an EV, so it got thrown out. I've replaced it with a 1500w PTC element taken from a 110v heater bought from the US. I should have taken pics. of it fitted in to the heater matrix but was too keen to get it done and forgot, but you all know how it works, cut out the centre of the matrix, fix in the element with High temperature silicon and seal off the remaining area around the new element. 

It works well on the current 120v nominal system and should be even more effective when I upgrade to 144v as planned in the future. I'm using a 150V 10A rated DC relay to switch it on interlocked with a microswitch controlled when the heater lever is moved to the full heat position and ignition on. I also reused the thermostatic temperature adjustment switch from the donor heater in the control circuit to regulate temperature from the cabin. It's really analogue and old school (like me!) but works great.

Lets see, what else? The Homebuilt DC/DC is working very well so far, always keeps the system over 13.5V even under heavy loads, and settles back up to about 14.3V ish under light loads whilst driving.

The Grill badge turned to crap even before it got fitted sitting on the windowsill in the house! Don't think they used UV proof inks so I don't recommend using the company named earlier for this!! I've re-worked it with a chrome EV, hopefully this will be a conversation starter.

The 2.5KW Elcon/TCcharger turned up from EVAssemble in China after about a month. It isn't actually a 2.5Kw at all as they advertise, it's the 2KW TCCharger model, so this is why they seem cheaper than buying from the factory direct! They argued Black was White with a typical crazy Chinese attitude to customer service when I pointed out the description was wrong. This and the crappy after sales communication, (Ignored until I communicated through Paypals dispute resolution, which got immediate polite service!) has ensured I won't use them again, although the charger was still a good price and is working well. 

The 72V test battery of floodies was flogged off on ebay and replaced with a new 120V nominal set.

Below are a couple of pics. of the batteries installed:





I want Lifepo4 in the car, it was actually designed for a 144V nominal pack of up to 180Ah cells. This will be the next (and hopefully final) pack, but I just can't finance this at present, so the car is starting its EV life with a set of 10 x 100Ah (10Hr rate) AGM's. (Having to use Lead is bad enough, so I certainly wasn't going to have floodies sloshing about in the car spewing corrosive & explosive gasses into the cabin space when charging!). I sourced what seems to be a good value pack for £1100. So far they are proving very capable and don't sag much at all (for lead!) under higher currents.

Here's the data sheet: 

http://www.leoch.com/pdf/reserve-power/agm-vrla/lpc-deep-cycle/LPC12-100.pdf

I built a set of the simple Lee Hart Zener diode regulators to keep them in order:

http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartregs.html

I neglected to photograph the battery cabling under the car whilst on the lift, but it's all in 25mm flexible conduits running down the centre tunnel.

A few pics of the finished engine (motor!) bay:







So... just under 5 years to the day since starting the project, it's finally useable, I am planning upgrades on a rolling basis, such as a cooling fan for the charger, as it does run quite hot, so wouldn't hurt. I'll probably fit a shroud and filter to the motor inlet at the comm. end, and may force air cool it with a blower, (will definitely do this at lithium upgrade time to cope with longer run times).


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Observations and performance figures so far...

I've driven 250 miles in 7 days. 

The car is running 120v of AGM Lead at a weight of just over 300KG. The cars total weight must be about 1100KG's, but I need to get it weighed to know accurately.

The 1 Hour rate of these cells is 64.6Ah, I've set the JLD404 to set off the battery low alarm at 45Ah (just short of 70% of 1hr rate)

Around town with lots of start/stop driving up to about 30mph, I'm using about 2.6Ah per mile. I think this around 310Wh per mile.

Country lane driving at about 40 to 50 mph, is coming in at about 2.1Ah per mile, or about 250Wh per mile.

Motorway driving on flat(ish) roads at about 60 mph comes in at about 2.5Ah per mile, or just under 300Wh per mile.

So, real life safe range seems to be about 18 miles, without pushing to hard. 

This all seems about right and isn't far off what I'd expected to get on paper. I was a little surprised at the higher town figure, but it seems to be down to high current use to start the car from stopped on a frequent basis. This should improve with the lithium upgrade later, both due to the lower weight and higher voltage.

One observation I've made is I do need to increase the current ramp rate on the controller, as it ramps up a little to slowly at present. The controller temp. hasn't exceeded low 50's Centigrade under motorway use so far on a 20 degree day, so thermal management is holding up well. 

Driving style that seems to work well is setting off in second, then changing up at around 3K rpm using 3rd around town to about 30 mph, 4th for country lanes at about 40 to 50 mph, 5th for anything above 50. 

The motor seems quite well matched to the gearbox in the car. Interestingly the original ICE had a 50Kw rating. Allowing for sag under load on the battery at 500Amp, that's almost exactly what the motor is giving now! 

The car will quickly get up to 50, and on to 60 mph without much effort, it does seem very "happy" between 50 & 55. I can get up to 75 mph reasonably easily, but it's heavy on current to do so, 300A to 400A to get up there and about 200A+ to maintain, so I tend to stick below 60 mph.

The car handles pretty well, I'm running upgraded rear springs. (Heavy duty towing version springs from the estate car version of the Skoda Felicia, seem to handle the extra weight nicely) The centre of gravity is kept low with the battery cut into the floor so it corners quite well with a little bit more understeer than before due to the weight bias change to the rear).

Other points to note, I'm running the tyres about 8psi higher than usual for this car to reduce rolling resistance. Toe in is neutral. It seems to roll forever on the level before stopping!

The brakes do work harder due to the lack of engine braking and additional weight, brake dust build up on the front wheels is noticeably greater than when it was an ICE. I'll expect it to need more frequent pad changes. The power brakes are working well and the reservoir keeps up with demand, the brake pump can't be heard when moving at speed from the cabin, but you do hear it humming when stationary.

In summary, the car is pretty good, and I'm happy to have it running at last as an EV.

The planned lithium upgrade to 144v in 1-2 years time will more than double the range if 100Ah is used and virtually quadruple it if I can run to 180's. Performance should increase considerably too due to the loss of weight and 20% higher voltage....I can't wait!

Paul


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Congratulations!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Congratulations on a very clean build. Well planned out and implemented. When you can get the lithiums in there you will be sooooo happy. Nice paint on that. Just spotless clean.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is a really nice build, well done. I hope mine looks as clean as yours does. 

It will be very informative to watch the running improvements and reports as you go along.



I was hoping your badge would work out, it is a shame it didn't. I did bookmark the company, I'll remove it now.
I think I will try and have my badge machined from billet aluminium if I can find someone to convert my logo to a machine code of some sort. I can then have the same on my centre lock wheels nuts.


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## CyO (Mar 23, 2013)

Paul, Inspiring.
CyO


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Great build this is, i just read all pages. Great job on this, i can only hope my build will turn out as nice as this one!


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## laminator (Aug 11, 2012)

Congratulations on the nice build.
Anyway have you considered using the motor for dynamic braking?
But that would require a braking resistor, but it would reduce the wear of brakes. And you could use it as a heater.


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## Vhclbldr (Feb 8, 2014)

Awesome build! I just came across this (happened across your name from EVMetro thread) and stayed up way too late reading the entire thread. You have an excellent attention to detail that I hope to emulate when my project gets underway next year. After over a year of reading various threads, I will be more than ready (I hope) to get started, but I still have a ways to go as far as refining my skill with TIG welding aluminum (EVMetro's polished aluminum has me newly inspired), electrical circuitry, and overall system design.

Hope you get your LiPos soon!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I thought it might be time for an update on the fav-e 

I got one of the Better Place/Renault battery packs to use as a donor for 48 of the AESC lithium modules. In addition to this, I've sourced an additional 6 of the modules from the guys over in Las Vegas who part out Leafs, so I've got a total of 54 modules to shoehorn into the fav-e. 

The effects of this will be to increase nominal running voltage from 120v to 135v. I also shave about 80Kg's from the cars weight, so performance and handling should improve significantly, so far so good...

But, the biggest improvement I'm hoping to see is range, the 1 hour rate on my existing AGM's is 65Ah, and I've only been using 45Ah max of this to keep the batteries happy and maximise their life, so about 5.4Kwh useable. This gave me about 22 miles range Max. The new pack will be 27Kwh, with about 21Kwh safely useable, so this, in conjunction with the higher voltage and lower weight should give me a solid 100 mile plus range 

A few pictures of the pack being broken down for re-configuration:







The new module configuration will be "triplets" of modules to give 180Ah or so, 7.6v nominal batteries x 18

I'll be back soon as the re-configured modules get made up and fitted, watch this space...


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Wow, you are a true craftsman! Awesome and inspiring work! I'm going to be embarrassed to put up pictures of my own build now...it will be nowhere nearly as pretty!

Wonderful to see that you've sprung for the Li packs now- hope you didn't have to rob a bank to get them! Will be watching the re-conversion to Li with interest-


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

@ Moltenmetal, 
Thanks for the kind words, I didn't have to rob a bank to buy the battery, but did need to raid my Bitcoin stash for a few coins!

I got the rear banks made up today, made up the mounting brackets and bolted them into the car. Also cut, drilled & fitted the bus bars. 



Back soon...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

This makes my day. I was needing to see some fine EV craftsmanship, and here it is.


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## steelneck (Apr 19, 2013)

Agree with previous poster, this is very well done conversion. Looks very good.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Paul. This is turning out to be a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. First-class work as usual. Do you plan to use a BMS with your pack, or will you just limit the capacity you use to give a safe margin at the top and bottom?

I've been using some Bosch power tool packs on my electric bike for a few years now. These contain lithium manganese cells, similar to the chemistry of your cells. The Bosch packs don't have any BMS. I charge them to about 4.1 V per cell and just recharge when I feel the power dropping off. They have a steeper discharge curve than lithium phosphate, so it's obvious (on my bike at least) when they are nearing end of charge. I obviously have a lot less invested in my pack though...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi guys, thanks for the kind comments 

Malcolm,
I'm not using a traditional BMS, but will be keeping well away from the top and bottom. My existing TCCH AGM charger terminates at 147v, this is perfect for the 18 triple module packs I am using, giving a voltage per cell of 4.0833v, so just nicely short of max voltage. At 147v it will hold and taper down the current to 0.05C, I don't expect this to take very long at all with the voltage held at below the full charge voltage. The charger will then go into it's Lead acid float mode of 136v until turned off, this will effectively do nothing as unlike lead acid, the lithium will settle at a voltage way higher than the float, meaning no potential for any current flow. So that's the plan anyway, I'll be watching like a hawk the first few charges, if everything doesn't play nice and exactly as expected, I'll shut the charger off dead with a programmable voltmeter when the first cell reaches 4.1v and play it that way instead. 

As for keeping away from the bottom. I also have the JLD404 to watch the Ah used and programme alarms at given Ah use in case I 'm not paying attention. This means I can keep well away from the bottom. I'll also be using the 10 LED bar graph display array I made tuned for this battery type to monitor individual module voltages (X 18). This should work nicely with this type of battery as the voltage decrease is much more linear than Lifepo4.

So actually, come to think of it, I am using a BMS, it just seems to be me!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Otherwise known as a "Me-MS"


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi Fav
Can you clarify the 10 LED bar graph display array? A king of batt-bridge alarm?

Also, I just need to add: your convertion is so awesomely clean!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Yabert,

Message #15 on this thread shows the bar graph array, it is based on this simple design:

http://www.evconvert.com/article/led-bargraph-battery-monitor-part-2

Originally designed for lead acid, the 8v version should work well with the Nissan modules due to their linear voltage decrease when discharged


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

Very nice build. I caught your link on the Renault EVTV spreadsheet and read through your build thread. Awesome work.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Time for a little update on my slow progress of the battery upgrade. I've been waiting patiently for some parts to arrive from the US and from a useless sheet plastics company here in the UK that I won't be using anymore! . Anyway, I've now finished the rear and mid installs, except the monitoring cables, (which I'll do later once it's all finished). 

I've had yet another change of mind on how I'm doing the front battery install, so have ordered a batch of aluminium cut to size. I was going to use polycarbonate, but it's just too flexible to clamp the modules in place without going to a very thick wall size. I think the end result will be nice now though, it's a combination of Aluminium for the sides of the batteries and Polycarb. for the end and top covers.

I've had a bit of dumb luck with the battery box sizing really. The boxes were initially made to accommodate 160Ah Thunderskys, (The Japanese Leaf/Renault cells didn't exist back in the day when I made up the boxes back in 2008! ) but the boxes have worked out perfectly to accommodate a total of 54 of the new modules. 

I also got a chance to make up the box cover for the rear set, (carpeted 9mm ply) In the end I've actually only sacrificed a total of 150mm (6 Inches) from the luggage compartment depth.

A few pictures...















Back soon...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hmmm.... must get those battery box lid fixings changed to black..


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## steelneck (Apr 19, 2013)

What kind of material/carpet have you used on the plywood, it looks very nice?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Steelneck,

I used this self adhesive carpet:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Metre-x...1?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item23372d1393

I was a bit sceptical about how good the self adhesive part would be, but it turned out to be very good indeed, I'd highly recommend it over the usual need to spray on glue. I did sand the ply and give it a coat of polyurethane varnish to seal it before applying the carpet.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

A little more progress on the battery upgrade. The front three batteries have been taking a while... unlike the other batteries that aren't subject to atmospheric considerations, these three sit under the bonnet and our damp climate means I want them pretty much watertight and certainly splash proof, so an enclosure is necessary. I'd initially planned to make this entirely from polycarbonate, but it's just not rigid enough without using a really thick wall, so after playing around I've settled on a combination of 4mm aluminium plate for the module end plates/box walls, with polycarbonate for the box base, ends and lid.

There is no way to install all the batteries at once in one enclosure due to available space so I've devised a modular "Meccano" style system whereby I can install one box at a time, interlocking them with appropriate closed cell foam seals. Once in , the Polycarb. end sections can be fitted with appropriate glands for the cabling.

The joining angle and "T" sections you see in the pics are anodised to protect against corrosion, and fitted using high strength 3M double sided adhesive tape, the end plates are etch primed and finished with matt black paint. Once they're in with the clear sides and lid on, the end result should be quite presentable.


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## Pawiel (Sep 15, 2013)

nice work!
greetings!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Time for an update...

The front battery pack took a little more work than expected. Despite my cunning planning and measuring everything at least twice, it turned out reality had other ideas and the modules simply wouldn't fit without interference with the cars body and other components. 

The answer was to dis-assemble the three units, trim 18mm from the top of the side walls and re-assemble "Pisa" style with a rearward facing angle from the vertical of about 5 degrees to each unit! Reversing the connecting cables to sit below the crimped lugs meant I could keep the cabling height below that of the modules terminal busbars, allowing me to just save the 18mm in height. 

In the end the small front battery install took more work than all the rest of the battery install!, but the end result is nice  







End result is also very splash proof and should keep our damp climate away from the module cans.

On a different topic... I got to thinking about the front battery in the event of an accident. The 4mm plates on the modules should give good protection in the event of a light accident, but I might add some solid plastic blocks between the front battery plates and terminals to avoid shorting by crushing of metal into the terminals in a heavier accident situation. 

I suppose there's only so much you can do regarding this, but it does worry me just a little that if the worst was to happen, I may have to walk away from a furiously burning car leaving good, otherwise salvageable EV parts to be ruined! 

As many of us have batteries "up front", so to speak, Does anyone else worry about these things or is it just me! lol!!


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Wow, you made my day! Beautiful! As for the batteries and accidents, just get the right insurance plan. If you have an accident, grab your phone and coffee, exit the vehicle and start heading away from the car. After a few minutes, you will know if your batteries and connections survived. Fav, thanks so much for keeping this thread up to date with your excellent work.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Battery/Range testing:

Thought you might be interested in my findings regarding the Renault/Nissan modules. Of the 54 used in my conversion, 48 are from the Better Place (Renault) bankruptcy via EVTV, with the remaining 6 (Leaf) from the guys at Hybrid Auto Centre in Las Vegas. 

The modules are arranged into 18 sets of triplets, (Each of the 6 Leaf modules were placed in with 2 of the better place modules to minimise any ageing/use discrepancies). So the pack should be around 180Ah @ 136.8v (Assuming nominal 3.8v per cell).

My initial plan was to under charge these with my existing TC charger that originally terminated CC at 146v, meaning an end voltage of 4.055v per cell, I didn't think there would be much left above this, so planned to keep away from the top for cell health, but it turns out this is probably a bit too low.

After my first capacity test, I got 130Ah from the pack between 4.055v and 3.53v. According to the Hybrid Auto centre graphs, there's not much below 3.6v and my testing did show an increasingly rapid voltage drop off below 3.6v. 

So there seems to be a lot of capacity left above 4.05v. I modified the charger to be adjustable between 4.1v and 4.2v per cell, and charged again to a total of 4.17v per cell average, 150.1v total. (Pack is currently top balanced).

On the second discharge, I got 162Ah between 4.17v and 3.3v per cell (weakest cell), so 90% of capacity in this range. As I suspect the Better Place battery to retain around 95% of its original capacity, I'm pretty happy with this, there's probably about 1%-2% left at the top between 4.17v & 4.2v, with the remaining few percent below 3.3v.

In actual use I won't be taking the pack anywhere near the bottom, probably not below 3.6v (this occurs at about 150Ah in my case).


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

favguy said:


> As many of us have batteries "up front", so to speak, Does anyone else worry about these things or is it just me! lol!!


I do, which is why I'm happy I was able to fit all my cells in the motor bay in the middle of my Fiero. I do cringe a bit when I see cells right in the front, or in the back, right near the bumper. But even a mid mounted pack with reinforcement is no guarantee, as Tesla has proven.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

favguy said:


> So there seems to be a lot of capacity left above 4.05v.


Jack Rickard's testing seemed to show the need to charge to 4.2V to get near full capacity.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Cont...

As for range, So far, whilst testing the batteries, I've driven the car a mixture of some town stop start, along with country roads & motorway at speeds of between about 40mph & 65mph on mainly flat roads with some slight inclines and the odd modest hill. 

End result of this was 82.5 miles at 155.9Ah, so I'm averaging about 1.89Ah per mile, or 258Wh/Mile. 

I also got the car weighed, it came in at 1100Kg (2420lbs), so the Watt hour per mile, 10% rule is very close, I'd have beaten it without the motorway


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi JRP3,

Yes, looks like they do need to be near to 4.2v for maximum capacity, personally I'm sticking with 4.17v, maybe 4.18v, just to give them an easy life, not too worried about squeezing every last drop out 

I'm noticing very little sag on the modules under load, no more than about 6% or 7% at full throttle, less at steady running, with no noticeable heat generation at all after a run . 

That said, my set up is very easy on the battery, 0.5C average at about 50mph, to 1C or less at motorway speeds. Less than 2.8C at full power!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Thats excellent news. Im going to be doing a capacity check on a module I got from the guys in Las Vegas. I will be sure to stop at 4.2 volts with no CC. Just up to 4.2 then stop. Then discharge to 3.5 volts each. Measuring the capacity. I have a setup that will draw almost 100 amps while discharging and will use my JLD to measure the capacity. Should be accurate enough and with a decent load.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi onegreenev,

I'll look forward to seeing your results on the battery testing


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

The results should be up either very late tonight or tomorrow.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Got one module down to 7.1 volts. Was going to connect it to my powerlab 8 but I can't set a charge voltage above 4.3 volts. I did not want to do a split charge so now I must set up my JLD to my generic charger. Damn thing can only do 15 amps. This is going to be slow. Any one know if the Powerlab 8 can charge at a higher voltage?


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## epyon (Mar 20, 2008)

WOW !!!!! I can say that build is the nicest ev I've seen . 

I used to watch the WRC Rally on tv . Those rally cars were cool an amazing . I got a couple of my friends into the WRC watching the big SKODA ( we're Muscle Car guy's ) flying around corners , sliding around , an sometimes out running the small cars . Your car is right up there ....great job !!!! The AGM battery set up look the nicest of all to me . I only hope when I am done , my car is half as cool as yours . 
Only one problem ....HYBRID AUTO CENTER in LAS VEGAS ????  Your in another country an you knew about them ? Damm... I work to many hours .


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Cooling matters...

Due to the car having the ability to run continuously for 80 miles or more now, I decided to upgrade the cooling a little. 

Starting with the controller.
On a warm day here a few weeks ago, about 26C, (About as hot as it ever gets!) I noted a maximum temperature whilst range testing uphill on the motorway of 70C from the controller, due to the large heatsink, this quickly dropped back into the 60's under less load, but I'd still like to run the controller cooler for long life, so I've installed this directly under the heatsink:



It's a 140mm Noctua NF-A14 Industrial fan. Runs at 3K RPM and pushes out 158CFM. It's so powerful for its size, when testing it on the bench, It actually lifts off and hovers above the bench when blowing down! I'm looking forward to seeing what difference it makes...

Onto the motor, I've not noticed any particularly hot running here, maximum I measure is about 30C above ambient, but I'm not measuring the Comm. & brush gear, which no doubt is much hotter. Anyway, it can't do any harm to add some more cooling. 

I also wanted to close in the Comm. & brush gear to keep out dirt and any splashing water. Although not shown here, I made up a 2 part cowl from galvanised sheet steel that clamps around the motor, with a rubber gasket to make it water tight. It's got a 60mm inlet built in for the ducting from the blower. 

Heres the set up:



It's made from a Rule, 4" bilge blower, that blows 240CFM of air with a Ramair high flow filter to keep everything nice and clean .

In both cases, the fans start and run continuously whenever the drive system is activated. 

I'll report back with the difference in running temperatures in due course.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That Ramair filter looks nice, is it just a foam element or is there a paper filter under it? Where did you get it, and/or do you have a part number?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I think I found it http://ramair-filters.co.uk/cc-rubb...-rubber-neck-performance-foam-air-filter.html


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi,
You found the website  The actual part number was CC-108, this is a short nose length version to fit in my engine bay. Here's the link:

http://ramair-filters.co.uk/cc-rubber-neck-filters/universal-air-filter-100mm-neck-108mm-tall.html

It fits perfectly to the input of the Rule 240 blower. The foam is supported by a stainless steel cage on the inside to keep its shape. According to Ramair, this gives less resistance than the paper elements, but I can't confirm as I've not tried the paper type.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi all,

Wonder how many of us from back in the day are still on here? Where does the time fly to?!

Just thought I'd give an 8 year on update on my battery. You might recall it's made up from early AESC modules as used in the Leaf/Fluence, and dates from 201. (One of the packs that Jack Rickard sourced from Israel) So I did a capacity test on the battery with the same start and finish voltages as when I first tested it just after installation and it's at about 90% of what it was 8 years ago when installed. This is after minimal actual use and mainly being stored in my garage at a 50% SOC. So that works out at about 1.25% per year capacity loss, not bad for early first gen AESC modules! Our moderate, cool, climate helps a lot too I think as I know this chemistry tends to have a short life in much hotter climes.

Tata for now...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Still here


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't know if anybody around here remembers me, but I built a few EVs and documented them here...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

evmetro said:


> I don't know if anybody around here remembers me, but I built a few EVs and documented them here...


I remember you well, did you ever finish the Cadillac you were converting? you did some exceptional sheet metalwork on that car!


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