# CALB SE60Ahr Cells - Good Source?



## eRev (Jan 10, 2009)

Looking to add (4) cells to an existing pack comprised of (22) CALB SE60Ahr cells bringing the total to (26).

So far, my pack is maintaining balance to within .04V w/o active balancing measures @ approxiamtely 60-charge cycles to date.

One concern is regarding the availability of 60Ahr cells in the future should one or two cells decide to go south.

I'm confused about the 70Ahr units seen on websites - are these the replacement for the 60Ahr ones? Are they the same dimensions (the info I find is inconsistent and going to the mfg site - they no longer provide info on the SE series, but rather the SA series)?

Need help on sourcing additional cells that match-up to what I currently have.

My need is immediate - if any vendors are listening and you have the product in stock, let me know. Thanks in advance.


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## LithiumStorage (Feb 3, 2010)

The CALB 60Ah and 70Ah cells are not the same; we've sold a ton of both recently. But yes they are very similar in terms of size and weight.

So if CALB (formerly Skyenergy) has been making a great 60Ah cell, why suddenly come out with an alternative and makes things confusing? There is some room for speculation: CALB made their first batch about the same time Thundersky decided to get divorced and split into two entities (that are suing each other over the kids). CALB's new 70Ah cell has the exact same dimensions as the TS 60Ah cell...

CALB initially told our company that we couldn't get any more 60s and the 70s would be a replacement. But then consumer demand changed their minds and now they produce both...and we get a lot of confused customers as a result.

Note: Even though the CALB 70 and TS 60 are the same outside (but different colors of course), their preferred voltage range is still different so the CALB 70 is not a drop-in replacement for the TS 60.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumStorage said:


> The CALB 60Ah and 70Ah cells are not the same; we've sold a ton of both recently. [snip]
> 
> CALB's new 70Ah cell has the exact same dimensions as the TS 60Ah cell...
> 
> ...


Can you elaborate a little more? The size of the CALB 70 matches the TS 60 except for being 3 mm taller, right? The CALB 60 is slightly thinner and wider than the 70, right? (I'm reading spec sheets, that may be dangerous) 

Are the TS 60 and Winston 60 (newer) the same size? (I have Feb. 2010 TS 60 cells) I see the CALB and Winston cells show a slightly different voltage, I wouldn't want to mix them in a pack, but is this just the slight difference is charging voltage? 

Thanks for all your help. It is nice to hear from someone with hands on experience over time with the different sizes of CALB and TS offerings.


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## eRev (Jan 10, 2009)

I appreciate the discussion and would like to understand the trends occcurring with these LiFePO4 cells too because I'm planning a Rev2 conversion soon, but for the existing conversion I've secured matching SE60Ahr cells from Dave Kois @ CurrentEvTech.com.


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## LithiumStorage (Feb 3, 2010)

EVfun said:


> Can you elaborate a little more? The size of the CALB 70 matches the TS 60 except for being 3 mm taller, right? The CALB 60 is slightly thinner and wider than the 70, right? (I'm reading spec sheets, that may be dangerous)
> 
> Are the TS 60 and Winston 60 (newer) the same size? (I have Feb. 2010 TS 60 cells) I see the CALB and Winston cells show a slightly different voltage, I wouldn't want to mix them in a pack, but is this just the slight difference is charging voltage?
> 
> Thanks for all your help. It is nice to hear from someone with hands on experience over time with the different sizes of CALB and TS offerings.


You are correct on the size difference between the CALB 60Ah and 70Ah. But for the CALB 70 vs the TS 60, we don't physically see any real difference between them besides the color and Grateful Dead sticker (jk). See below:


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

EVfun said:


> I see the CALB and Winston cells show a slightly different voltage, I wouldn't want to mix them in a pack, but is this just the slight difference is charging voltage?


I've been doing it in my EV for over a year now, mix of TS and CALB of different sizes (TS160 and CALB180 ) in one string. No issues at all. Voltage difference is small enough and the charger certainly could care less since it doesn't see cell level voltages. The pack is limited to smallest cell, obviously, so I am wasting a little of CALB's potential capacity, but that is besides the point. In my opinion they are close enough and the same dimensions, that's all I needed.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures LS!

It's an impressive view of the Calb superiority (15% more energy density).


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Thank you LS for showing us the lack of difference. That's what I get for reading a spec sheet.  Those things would be a drop in swap for my Buggy, a strait increase of about 17% in capacity. I could use the TS end plates and possibly even the straps on those CALB cells.

Yabert, more capacity is not necessarily superiority. One way to increase capacity is well known and results in increased internal resistance (thicker layers of graphite and Iron phosphate.) This is most likely the difference between the Headway 8 amp hour power cells and the 10 amp hour energy cells. 

Without some 3C or (preferably) 5C tests I don't know if the new CALB cells are really better for EVs. A lot of EVers have had good luck with them so I suspect they are an upgrade from the TS 60. I know I can hit my TS 60 amp hour cells at 300 amps (5C) and they hold at 2.92 volts per cell. I would be curious to know how the newer CALB cells hold up under load, the graphs I've seen from CALB have only been up to 1C.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

EVfun said:


> Yabert, more capacity is not necessarily superiority. .


Absolutly, I understand!

I base my comment on the Calb spec sheet : < 1 mohm.

So, for me the difference seem clear, both TS and Calb have the same size and same internal impedance, but Calb have 10Ah over..... so the advantage!


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## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

I got mine directly from CALB in california. Best price, takes CC and 5 day shipping.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

My first cells were SkyEnergy 120Ah, after a while, there were assumptions by some owners, tha the capacity is significant higher but min. 10%.
So if you bought a 120Ah you might had acquired a +130Ah cell for a better price per ah.
It seems that there lied a truth in this farytale, because after a while there were no more 120Ah to buy, only 130Ah, same weight, form factor etc. (I bought 7 additional cells).
Now, the 130Ah have still +130Ah, but CALB gets 8% more bucks from you 


It would't surprise me, if this is exactly the same story.
Would be great, if someone could confirm this.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

brainzel said:


> Now, the 130Ah have still +130Ah, but CALB gets 8% more bucks from you


You can't blame Chinese for learning business principles from the West


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## LithiumStorage (Feb 3, 2010)

brainzel said:


> My first cells were SkyEnergy 120Ah, after a while, there were assumptions by some owners, tha the capacity is significant higher but min. 10%.
> So if you bought a 120Ah you might had acquired a +130Ah cell for a better price per ah.
> It seems that there lied a truth in this farytale, because after a while there were no more 120Ah to buy, only 130Ah, same weight, form factor etc. (I bought 7 additional cells).
> Now, the 130Ah have still +130Ah, but CALB gets 8% more bucks from you
> ...


It's almost the same story. The CALB 60Ah and 70Ah are slightly different and CALB still makes both. Our last batch of 60Ah tested an average 67Ah; our 70s averaged 75.5Ah. Are the dimensions for the CALB 130Ah on our website the same as the 120Ah cells you bought earlier?

CALB has a tendancy to underrstate their listed specs. All of the cells we bring into the USA test higher than listed; we've never had one lower. Usually the tested result is within 10% of listed, but sometimes they come out more. For an extreem case, the last bunch of 400Ah cells we brought over tested an average 487Ah...


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Seems like in the 90's, were Intel build some CPUs, testet them and decided after viewing the results, which label it gets, 133MHz or 166MHz 

We had over 160Ah out of our first 120Ah batteries, so great cells.


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