# Cutis to Zilla, goal no downtime.



## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

Time to upgrade the old squealer. I've been wanting to do this for a while and the main thing that stopped me was the truck just works. Every day turn the key and go, and I generally need it so it's hard to be down for any period of time. But finally it's time to do this.

My plan is to do things in stages. Things like mounting and wiring the hairball. Get water cooling in place. Etc. Have as much in place as possible so that I can pull the Curtis off, Drop in the Zilla, make the connections and drive. I plan to start with the minimum wiring needed for the Hairball and add other features as I go. For example the speed sensor on the motor currently drives the tach, I'd like to put that thought the zilla so I can enable over speed protection. Etc.

I would love to hear from anyone that has changed from a Curtis to a Zilla or similar in the past. Any gotchas I should watch for, etc, etc. 

I was initially thinking this would be simple, and it still seems straight forward but it's surprising how many things overlap. Such as the precharge resistor across the Contactor. The Zilla has one built in, My current setup has one strapped to the side of the contactor. (pic) 

Also the current system closes once contactor with a switch on the Pot box. (pic) Where the Zilla will control this one in the future. It seems like a nice safety feature to open that contactor when the throttle is closed but apparently that is now handled by the Zilla. Does the Zilla keep the contactor closed the entire time? Or does it close it when you begin to press the throttle like the current system? 

I finished mounting and wiring the hairball this weekend. Everything is set, I just need to ground the Hairball, transfer the pot wires and connect the precharge circuit. The wires are in place just not connected.

When it comes to programming the Zilla does anyone have any preferred program to use to talk to the Zilla? (putty maybe)

My laptop doesn't even have a serial connection (other than usb) so I ordered a usb to serial connector and hope it will communicate fine


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow, you are right around the corner from me, I'm in Everett WA. I went from a Curtis 1221 to a Zilla Z1k. My safety controls and precharge systems where similar for the Curtis. 

You will be limited, until you get water cooling on the Zilla. I can get away with it, but my buggy is only 1200 lb. (and I can get a temperature warning on summer days when going from north Everett back to south Everett.)

If the Zilla will fit where the Curtis was at the battery and controller wiring can often swap right over, mine did. The Hairball will need to be placed somewhere and that may change some of the small wiring. I got lucky and was able to put mine about 6 inches from the main contactor and associated relays for the Curtis.

The precharge connections become connections to the Hairball. These must be made at the contactor to the Hairball. 

You will need a constant +12v source or you will need to use the start position on the ignition switch. You may have to choose to run one or the other to the area (I chose to add the constant +12v.) You will need to fuse the inputs to the Hairball as recommended, so a small fuse block may be in order. These are 12v inputs, so standard automotive fuses and holders are good. 

You will need a GOOD ground and a short one too. The Hairball can be picky about this. You might get away with a 3 foot 16 gauge wire to a common ground, but you might really need a 6 inch 14 gauge wire to a good dedicated body ground. It is best to plan for the right, low noise, ground. 

The IGN positive wire that was the contactor power wire will go to the Hairball. The 2 potbox wires will go to the Hairball. The ksi wiring is removed. The contactor power wire goes to the Hairball now, not strait to the contactor like it may have before (that could be bad.) The data cable goes between the Hairball and Zilla. It is some type of ethernet cable, but it IS NOT an ethernet connection. The ferrite bead that came with the cable is required and should be supported so it doesn't jerk the cable around when driving. The factory cable should be used. 

I would save the tach input to the Zilla for later. There are some rules for the input the Zilla expects. I've only used the Corbin Sparrow type ADC 8 inch motor end bell pickup without a tach and that worked fine. I have no further experience with the system and others should be more helpful. 

The Zilla doesn't need the clacking contactor because it internally tests for a shorted power section. Even at 100% on it is quite 100% on. Several times a second it turns the main power section off for microseconds. If the power section doesn't turn off then the main contactor opened and an error set that will not allow it to pull the main contactor in again cleared.

I've watched Otmar use a USB to serial adapter on a Mac to communicate with multiple Zilla controllers so I know at least one of the USB to serial chipsets works. I would think that Putty would be a fine program for a PC user to connect. I've had pretty good luck with it at work getting serial connections from a USB adapter on a PC to a number of different kinds of hardware. At home I use a Palm with a serial connection. I got it from Cafe Electric LLC back when Otmar was making the controllers. Actually, in a pinch I could just bring that (and the adapter cables) over and help you set up the Zilla.

In a lot of ways the Zilla is easier than the Curtis. You don't have to figure out the safeties, the wires go to the Hairball and it takes care of it. There are a few more wires, 9 terminal connections total, required. I listed them out here.


----------



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

it took me 1 day to mount and wire mine from the curtis, transferred the wires pretty much directly over
then took me a couple days to play with it and eventually get it working
mines a reconditioned unit though and has a few dodgy things going on
evworks lent me another hairball(that looks like it sat in a bucket of water for a while) to test so heres hoping

id work on getting the cooling thing going first, at a pinch u could hook it up to the windscreen washer pump 

my car weighs about 2000lbs and iv driven it to work a few times without making it derate, i was also driving like an old lady though
its been 100+ degrees here too last few days


----------



## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

EVfun said:


> Wow, you are right around the corner from me, I'm in Everett WA.
> ...
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, great to have someone nearby to help out if needed. I hope I won't have to. My adapter should be here today or tomorrow, I'll try it out this weekend. 

I have most of the wiring you mentioned in the other post already done. I left a few things off until I actually remove the Curtis. It's funny I was actually thrilled to see the post on "minimum wiring for a Zilla" before I started mine.
I purchased a small waterpump and radiator from Amazon for the water cooling.









http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CFDS3JA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009X6ADCM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm not sure if it will be large enough but if not I can always upgrade or add additional cooling later. I plan to have the cooling in place before this weekend so all I'll need to do is hook it up and fill it with coolant. It's strange to me there don't seem to be any recommendations in the manual about the size of the cooling system. My radiator is roughly 5X5x1 plus tanks. All aluminum and has lots of surface area so I think as long as I have good air flow though it I won't have a problem, at least I hope not. 


Do most people use antifreeze or does anyone use special coolant like what they have for computers?

The part about the ground is interesting. My Hairball is mounted near the aux battery and I was planning to go straight to the battery but the connection would be about 2 feet, by the time the wire is routed and tucked away. I could go to a closer chasis ground, But the actual path back to the battery would be shorter electrically speaking. Going to a chassis ground like the Fender well would be less than a foot but it seems that the battery would make a better ground. I assume the problem is noise. But what are the symptoms if the wire is too long?


----------



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

about the cooling, the manual says it wants to be kept at or below 5 degrees above ambient and a flow rate of 2 gallons per minute for optimum cooling and to use anti freeze

the pump u have does 4litres a minute so roughly half (i bought that exact same pump off ebay, hasnt arrived yet)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131355058939?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
the pump has 5/16 barb fittings

the original radiator in the car is about a square foot so should be good

the guys at evworks have a similar size radiator in their triton ute and that has a z2k hv so i think your radiator which looks to be about 8"x6" should be fine 

it wont let me paste in the stuff from the manual but it also asks for an expansion tank and says the heater core for the controller can handle 15psi


----------



## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

arklan said:


> ...
> 
> it wont let me paste in the stuff from the manual but it also asks for an expansion tank and says the heater core for the controller can handle 15psi


Oh, good catch, I missed that. I had plans for a holding tank but it's not an expansion tank. I'll need to make sure it's vented.


Are you planning to use "normal" coolant?


----------



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

yeah, distilled water and anti freeze (so it doesnt clog up the pump) but ill test it with tap water first to check for leaks D:
every car iv ever had, has leaked water so im gonna be extra cautious with this one

coz my radiator is much bigger than i need i was thinking to just 2 thirds fill the radiator so it acts as an expansion tank aswell


----------



## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

I finished this up yesterday, WOW what a difference. I did expect more power but the difference is huge, even under 500 amps the Zilla is way more responsive. The truck will spin the tires easily in first gear. I imagine I will b running around in second most of the time. 

Then there is the silence. 

I have noticed the Main contactor is closing immediately even when the precharge light is still on. I read in another post someone experiencing the same thing so it might be a non issue. I'm going to double check my wiring but I suspect the Zilla would complain (error code) if it detected the contactors closing prematurely.

The hardest part was the cooling, Finding a good place to put the radiator and routing all the lines so that the pump doesn't cavitate . I Think I am going to revisit this and add some sort of reservoir right in front of the pump . As it is the reservoir is about a foot away and added like an expansion tank, I should have used a draw through type of reservoir.


----------



## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

several test drives later and all I can say is that I wish I had done this sooner. The Zilla is so much smoother. I used to get a weird shuttering at certain motor rpms under moderate load. It's now completely smooth.










I still need to tidy up the wiring and continue transferring things to the Zilla, Like the rpm sensor.

The cooling pump seems to have managed to purge itself of bubbles. Hopefully it stays that way. No leaks yet either. 

Thanks for the help and guidance. I'll probably post some more updates as I migrate more control to the Zilla.

I'm also working on a cabin preheat car-puter. I really like the feature in my Leaf so I am looking forward to a warm cabin in the morning.


----------



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

Dougnutz said:


> I have noticed the Main contactor is closing immediately even when the precharge light is still on. I read in another post someone experiencing the same thing so it might be a non issue. I'm going to double check my wiring but I suspect the Zilla would complain (error code) if it detected the contactors closing prematurely.


that was me, i tried another hairball and it waited the half second for precharge before turning the contactor on
while i was testing with the first hairball i was using a 150 watt bulb to manually precharge

with mine iv got the opposite, no stuttering before and with the zilla i have stuttering at 200 amps D: time will tell


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

arklan said:


> with mine iv got the opposite, no stuttering before and with the zilla i have stuttering at 200 amps D: time will tell


I suggest checking the Zilla for stored error codes. They often hint at the problem. Right off the top of my head, a long ground wire on the Hairball will cause problems.


----------



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

EVfun said:


> I suggest checking the Zilla for stored error codes. They often hint at the problem. Right off the top of my head, a long ground wire on the Hairball will cause problems.


it was the pot box, i got a new one today and it drives the smoothest its ever driven


----------

