# Actual Wh per mile for your vehicle



## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

For those of you who have invested in a device, like the “Kill a Watt” meter, to measure your energy consumption from the wall, please post your results.

Let’s just keep it simple to begin with and see what happens.

Here is mine:

Distance Driven: 9.5 miles
kWh from meter: 4.18

4180 Wh / 9.5 miles = 440 Wh per mile.

I have measured my charging process over twenty times and this is representative of my typical numbers, it varies only a small amount regardless of my driving style.

1990 Miata, ADC 9", 120V from Sears Platinum Marine PM-2 (rebadged Odyssey PC1500's)

Steve


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## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

94 S10 120V 20- US145 Batteries 9in motor

Drove it 6K (city + hwy) miles for the past 19 months and used 3800KWH to charge it.
That equates to 633 WH per mile. For me at a grid charge of .12 per KWH, that is 7.5 cents per mile, average.
Due to inefficiencies on both the removal and the replacement of electrons, the actual usage is more than what the onboard Link 10 meter displays.

Watched a news segment a few days ago where a GM spokesman said that the Volt will cost one to two cents per mile to recharge. (Let’s all laugh) But what homeowner is going to meter the usage. Plus, while his vehicle is more efficient than mine, his is expected to sell for more than 3X my conversion.


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks for the information, this is exactly what I was hoping for.

I pay 17 cents per kWh, so I am also at 7.5 cents per mile.

I hope we can get enough data points to give people an idea of what to expect from a conversion. I still see way too much data that says it only costs 1 cent per mile to charge.

Tesla actually quotes 1 cent per mile for their vehicle. What a joke, the average cost of electricity in the US is 12 cents per kWH. Even with the efficiency of the Tesla it is still more like 4 cents per mile. 

Steve


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## Carroll_1 (Dec 18, 2007)

1997 Chev S10 144V, (18) Trojan T875 8V, 9.1" ADC

Recorded the first 170 miles until I cooked my Kill-A-Watt meter
Averaged 617 whr per mile (latest measurements were about 585 whr per mile as I improved my EV driving habits)
Averaged $.0735 per mile with $.118 per kwh cost


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I have been keeping track of this data every month now for a little while. I have it posted on my website. Here is a direct link to that data.

http://www.electricformula.com/Performance.html


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## speculawyer (Feb 10, 2009)

notnull said:


> Tesla actually quotes 1 cent per mile for their vehicle. What a joke, the average cost of electricity in the US is 12 cents per kWH.


They put an asterisk there and note that the 1 cent per mile is based on Time of Use (TOU) metering wherein you can get cheap electricity in the middle of the night.


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, nice info on the Fiero. Best Wh per mile numbers I have seen so far at 388 Wh/mi. I also like the acceleration data, I need to find someone with an Iphone and download that app.

Thanks for publishing your tire data as well, I am going to chang emy tires to an LRR model and see if I can get below 400 Wh/mi.

Steve


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok.. for yesterday (I just started keeping track of my daily kwh used):

27.7miles - 13kwh to recharge to full 

13000/27.7 = 469kwh/m

I pay $.0749/kwh. Elec rates in IN are very low!

13*.0749 = $.97 for 27.7m = $.035/mile

I think that equates to 78mpg based on zemmo's calcs.

One note: I've been going through the paperwork on my charger, and I think I can change the settngs to lower my power consumption. Right now I have it set to charge up to xxxvolts/cell then drop to xxxvolts/cell then float charge indefinately. However, since I drive my EV almost daily, I see no reason to float charge indefinately. I will change that setting and see if it alters my overall usage.

Also, obviously the wh/m figure is better as the weather gets warmer. Luckily, it was about 60 degrees here yesterday.


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Good numbers and great utility rates. I pay over twice what you do for power.

I would eventually hope to get to a point where I can tell people the average conversion gets 2 miles (or whatever the number happens to be)per kWh and if you want to know the cost per mile just divide your utility rate per kWh by 2.

Steve


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

notnull said:


> Wow, nice info on the Fiero. Best Wh per mile numbers I have seen so far at 388 Wh/mi. I also like the acceleration data, I need to find someone with an Iphone and download that app.
> 
> Thanks for publishing your tire data as well, I am going to chang emy tires to an LRR model and see if I can get below 400 Wh/mi.
> Steve


Thanks on the kudos. My Emeter shows a lot less wh/m reading for my mileage. But I think the power from the wall is what everyone should go by. My timer circuit has really helped lower my wh/m, I was doing a lot of over charging (and watering).

Yes LRR tires make a difference, unfortunately my tires are getting worn out. I need to buy new tires, I will probably get new ones soon plus get an alignment.


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## racunniff (Jan 14, 2009)

notnull said:


> For those of you who have invested in a device, like the “Kill a Watt” meter, to measure your energy consumption from the wall, please post your results.
> 
> Let’s just keep it simple to begin with and see what happens.
> 
> Steve


I found a good meter which works at 240VAC from ekmmetering and measured all summer last summer.

From my volt914 blog (which includes a couple of graphs):



> Basically, you can model the driving costs as 379 Wh/mi efficiency with a fixed 1.23 kWh cost per charge.
> 
> I drove 498 miles this summer, and used 244.3 kWh of electricity to charge it during that period (including the per-charge overhead). At 7.5 cents per kWh (my cost in Fort Collins, CO), that means I spent $18.32 on electricity to drive, at an average cost of 3.7 cents per mile.


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks Ross, nice ride and good numbers. I like the 240V meter. Yet, another person that pays less than half of what I do for electricity. I may have to start looking for a job out West.

Steve


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

I've only done two drives and getting numbers from in car computer. My killa watt meter can't handle the rates I'm charging at so I'll have to buy something bigger. I will be charging on 220 later so that meter looks good.

Anyways for only about 45-50 miles worth of driving looks like I'm around 350 Wh/m with a heavy foot. I'll update this later when I can get better numbers.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

bblocher said:


> I've only done two drives and getting numbers from in car computer. My killa watt meter can't handle the rates I'm charging at so I'll have to buy something bigger. I will be charging on 220 later so that meter looks good.
> 
> Anyways for only about 45-50 miles worth of driving looks like I'm around 350 Wh/m with a heavy foot. I'll update this later when I can get better numbers.


No need to buy expensive KWH meters with limited capacity. I purchased a used normal utility company meter that has been recalibrated. I got it from a company who calibrates utility company meters. It can handle over 200 amps if you in a few years you try and use some EEStor ultra caps!

Anyway, I've got a 91 S10, about 4200 lbs. Running US battery 2200XC 232ah and a 9" Advance motor clutch-less. It so far is averaging 600-650 (wintertime) watts over about 30 charges. 

Since it's been cold here so I've been using my electric heat a bit which uses about 2500 watts including the fan. This adds about 100wh/mile if on 100% of time, my best estimate while traveling 7 miles in 20 minutes. Lights all converted to LED except for 55W headlights.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> No need to buy expensive KWH meters with limited capacity. I purchased a used normal utility company meter that has been recalibrated. I got it from a company who calibrates utility company meters. It can handle over 200 amps if you in a few years you try and use some EEStor ultra caps!


Thanks for the great idea. I just bought a brand new, utility company type, digital kWh meter with 1/10-kWh resolution, with mounting socket for $40.98 plus shipping on ebay (Item number: 180322135829).


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Here's a tidbit some of you may want to be aware of if interested in saving power. 

The Advance FB4001 9" is WAY more efficient at high rpm but is low on torque. At low rpm is has a ton of torque but eats the amps! I've played with it a bit, not kept good records but just some observations I'll post. 

For reference, my truck is a 91 S10 (sans V6) with a 5 speed T5 transmission.

Max Speed, Calculated
1st gear max speed is 31mph.
2nd gear is 53 or so.
3rd gear is 85 (haven't seen that yet!)

Starting from a dead stop:
1st gear - Amp draw can be held to less than 250A with a fairly aggressive acceleration. 
2nd gear - Much more sluggish, easily draws over 400A until it builds up rpm, maybe 5mph. 

Driving Conditions:
10mph, 1st gear: Pulls about 120-140A. (low rpm - *Inefficient*)
40mph, 2nd gear: Still 120-140A. (near max rpm - *Maximum efficiency*)
At 50mph no noticeable difference.

With that in mind, I try and rev it until I get to 25mph or so before I shift and try and drive around 25 or 45mph to maximize efficiency. These are all on level or nearly level roads.

I've not measured 3rd gear on the interstate yet but I'd suppose I should drive about 80mph to get max efficiency.


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## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

ElectriCar said:


> Lights all converted to LED except for 55W headlights.


Could you give us some info on the LED’s you used for your S10 ?
Thought many times about replacing the bulbs to save a few amps and look appropriate for an EV, but ran into a problem on the brake lights on the 94S10. Since the bulb actually points out towards the side, the cars behind would not see most LED bulbs unless I bought a LED board assembly and mounted it at an angle. Not familiar with the 91 lens setup, if similar who had the bulb or what did you do? 
Thanks

94 S10


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

CPLTECH said:


> Could you give us some info on the LED’s you used for your S10 ?
> Thought many times about replacing the bulbs to save a few amps and look appropriate for an EV, but ran into a problem on the brake lights on the 94S10. Since the bulb actually points out towards the side, the cars behind would not see most LED bulbs unless I bought a LED board assembly and mounted it at an angle. Not familiar with the 91 lens setup, if similar who had the bulb or what did you do?
> Thanks
> 
> 94 S10


Just remove one of your lamps and get the number off it and ebay that number like "194 led". Below is a lamp like I have in the side markers and tag lights.

194 LED


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Just remove one of your lamps and get the number off it and ebay that number like "194 led". Below is a lamp like I have in the side markers and tag lights.
> 
> 194 LED


Very cool thanks! This is on my todo list as well.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

I installed my new Watt-Hour meter last weekend and now have some data to share. It looks like I take a huge hit if I recharge after only driving a few miles. I will continue keeping track.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> I installed my new Watt-Hour meter last weekend and now have some data to share. It looks like I take a huge hit if I recharge after only driving a few miles. I will continue keeping track.


What type charger you running? I've got an NG5. Today I plugged in while I took a trip out of town in my F250. It only had 9.5 miles on it and averaged 850wh/mile. However what I'm finding is if I plug it in and keep an eye on the ammeter I have installed and unplug it as the charge amps taper off about half, the w/m is dramatically less. I've gotten around 500-525. The finish charge consumes a lot of power! I can't wait to get Lithium!!!


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> What type charger you running? I've got an NG5. Today I plugged in while I took a trip out of town in my F250. It only had 9.5 miles on it and averaged 850wh/mile. However what I'm finding is if I plug it in and keep an eye on the ammeter I have installed and unplug it as the charge amps taper off about half, the w/m is dramatically less. I've gotten around 500-525. The finish charge consumes a lot of power! I can't wait to get Lithium!!!


I am using a Kelly 120V 10-Amp charger. It is not my regular charger, it's my "opportunity" charger. My regular, 20-Amp charger is waiting on parts. (I blew it up last week).


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> ... I blew it up last week.


Ouch! Care to edumacate us on how that happened for some insurance on our end?

I've rigged up a Badboy charger for opportunity charging but haven't had to use it yet. It works well if you have an extension cord to start it off. I just wish I could find a current limiting circuit to handle 20amps that I could make rather cheaply. Right now for my 144V system I don't even need the transformer in the circuit. I have a 50A 600V bridge rectifier mounted on a big heat sink as it draws over 20 amps until the pack is sufficiently charged. 

Since you're using "engineer" in your title, is that engineer as in EE? And what's the story behind the RF? Radar or radio? I worked on fire control radar in the Navy years ago so I got to play with RF stuff quite a bit.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Ouch! Care to edumacate us on how that happened for some insurance on our end?


It was a defect from the factory. One of the big diodes that works in conjunction with a large IGBT had a work-hardened crack in its lead. (See attached picture.) The crack eventually opened and the IGBT blew. I had a choice of returning it to the factory for repair or fix it myself and get a partial refund. I am fixing it myself.



ElectriCar said:


> Since you're using "engineer" in your title, is that engineer as in EE? And what's the story behind the RF? Radar or radio? I worked on fire control radar in the Navy years ago so I got to play with RF stuff quite a bit.


Yes, I R Engineer and former USN. See www.rfengineers.com and www.usschicago.org for more information.

Joe


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

I posted this Excel Spreadsheet to automatically calculate this a while back and reposting it here again in case someone can use it. YOu may need to download the file and save it to your computer.

http://www.dthigpen.com/jayne/ev_energy_calculator.xls


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Cool spreadsheet. Had I had this a while back I may not have had to make my own.  Oh well. Mine doesn't do all that but is similar.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

I really like your spreadsheet.

I made one small change, I added a "Cost per Mile/MPG Comparison line. This calculates the equivalent MPG based on the cost of a gallon of gasoline (or diesel) as compared to your electric cost per mile.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> I really like your spreadsheet.
> 
> I made one small change, I added a "Cost per Mile/MPG Comparison line. This calculates the equivalent MPG based on the cost of a gallon of gasoline (or diesel) as compared to your electric cost per mile.


RF, I'm sorta confused as I thought I compared the electric energy used compared to the ICE mpg in the Watts per mile/Equivalent MPG in the spreadsheet already.

It seems like adding the new equivalent MPG is with the price per gallon is giving two different contradictory MPG readings although it would be nice to plug in the price per gallon somehow.

I'm probably not understanding the new calculation. Can you clarify this for me?

Thanks,
Terry


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> RF, I'm sorta confused as I thought I compared the electric energy used compared to the ICE mpg in the Watts per mile/Equivalent MPG in the spreadsheet already.
> 
> It seems like adding the new equivalent MPG is with the price per gallon is giving two different contradictory MPG readings although it would be nice to plug in the price per gallon somehow.
> 
> ...


Hi Terry,

No problem, and please tell me if you think I am doing something stupid!

I am calculating the Equivalent Miles-per-gallon you would need to get in an ICEV to have the same cost-per-mile for a given ICE-fuel cost.

I am assuming that periodic battery replacement cost is equivalent to ICEV standard maintenance. 

To get this value I multiply [Cost-of-ICE-Fuel/Gallon-of-ICE-FUEL] by [Miles-traveled/Cost-per-Mile]. The costs cancel and I end up with Miles-per-Gallon.

Does this make sense?

Joe


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

A 2002 Hyundai conversion I get 250WH/mile at 45mph, 350WH/mile at 50mph


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

engineer_Bill said:


> A 2002 Hyundai conversion I get 250WH/mile at 45mph, 350WH/mile at 50mph


Bill,
Is that measured in the car or from the "wall outlet"?
Joe


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## shoup (Feb 10, 2009)

I am using a WattsUp meter to measure my energy usage. I have a 1990 BMW 325i with 156V pack of lead acid AGM batteries, Logisystems controller, and 9" Warp motor. 

I am averaging 586wh/mile which works out to about. $.105. I usually drive 45-55mph without being careful to conserve.


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