# Saft Batteries



## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Those are some crazy cells. I think Saft doesn't sell to individuals at all. Only to some big companies that prove they have use for exactly those products and they're not going to resell batteries. I know some conversions here use Saft NiCd which seem to last about forever. They've sourced their batteries elsewhere.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

mora said:


> Those are some crazy cells. I think Saft doesn't sell to individuals at all. Only to some big companies that prove they have use for exactly those products and they're not going to resell batteries. I know some conversions here use Saft NiCd which seem to last about forever. They've sourced their batteries elsewhere.


I am working this route:
http://www.houseofbatteries.com/battery-suppliers-i-4-l-en.html

I will let you know how I make out. Might have to place a very large order 5000+ to get them. Anyone in for a group buy if I am find a seller?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

http://www.houseofbatteries.com/cus...lithium-polymer-c-1_67-l-en.html?filter_id=27

I requested a quote on:

http://www.houseofbatteries.com/documents/VL12V.pdf


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## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

I asked for a quote too.

Notes from the bottom of the 12V sheet.
100C rating is 18secs ("they call that continuous")
150C rating is for 2sec ("pulse")
250C rating is for 200mSec (.2sec short pulse)

These guys make batteries for Space and Military applications. I hope I don't have a heart attack when the price comes in. I love the idea that we are now in the 100C continuous range now.

These are Graphite & Nickel Oxide electrodes, which is very new stuff. Still LiPF electrolyte though.

WARNING:
The 5V sheet pasted above looks like something is wrong, 
4000amps pulse from a 5Ahr battery? Thats 800C
3000amps from 5Ahr, thats 600C
2000amps continuous thats 400C yet the sheet says 100C continuous. I will bet this a pre-production sheet floater, I think it may have some errors.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

John Metric said:


> I asked for a quote too.
> 
> Notes from the bottom of the 12V sheet.
> 100C rating is 18secs ("they call that continuous")
> ...


I noticed the difference, not sure what to make of it? This data sheet was copied from the Saft website, they sell top of the line products. There might be errors, but possibly we are missing something?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

John Metric said:


> I asked for a quote too.
> 
> Notes from the bottom of the 12V sheet.
> 100C rating is 18secs ("they call that continuous")...


For you drag racers, 18 seconds *is* continuous, no?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> For you drag racers, 18 seconds *is* continuous, no?


18 seconds? Hell NO! 

If my drag car goes 18 seconds I will retire. LOL 

Looking for the 7's! 

We are keeping the car at 2300 lbs to avoid flight!


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## ndplume (May 31, 2010)

Say there Electron Herder - I wonder if you guys have a electrical simulator that can look into an idea. 
Suppose a LiFeOn Brick (Calib 100AH - 3C) was paired with one 100C cell (in parallel) Could/Would the 100C cell act like a capacitor?

The thought being that when a big demand for e- juice came, the 100C cell would supply the current. The Cell Pair would sag down to some level. The difference is that the 3C cell would be sagging and the 100C cell would be draining. 
Then after the e- guzzling was over, the 3C cell would send current back to their partner 100C cell (at a 3C rate) until the pair reached a voltage equilibrium. 

If this works, then the pack sag is reduced and it would allow a smaller AH pack to run a larger system while still providing some "stiffness" in the throttle. And I think the 100C cell would be much smaller than the equivalent capacitor. Hopefully lighter as well.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ndplume said:


> Say there Electron Herder - I wonder if you guys have a electrical simulator that can look into an idea.
> Suppose a LiFeOn Brick (Calib 100AH - 3C) was paired with one 100C cell (in parallel) Could/Would the 100C cell act like a capacitor?
> 
> The thought being that when a big demand for e- juice came, the 100C cell would supply the current. The Cell Pair would sag down to some level. The difference is that the 3C cell would be sagging and the 100C cell would be draining.
> ...


This approach can work well. The important part is that the chemistries match. If the charge and discharge curves are same or very close it can work well. It's like a parallel pack, one stiff and one for capacity. Paralleling at cell level is better than in a separate pack. I am building such a pack, although mine is A123 together with Calb. These are both LiFePo and will exist seamlessly. The A123's will dish out higher demand and recharge directly after from Calb's. You need a good quality battery though, one designed for very high cycle life if possible. 
This SAFT battery likely has a fairly different charge/discharge curve than LiFePo based on the chemistry and nominal voltage.


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## totalrace (Feb 12, 2012)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am working this route:
> http://www.houseofbatteries.com/battery-suppliers-i-4-l-en.html
> 
> I will let you know how I make out. Might have to place a very large order 5000+ to get them. Anyone in for a group buy if I am find a seller?


I am in. Interested in 1000-1500 cells.
VL-V serie is also fine, probably it is much cheaper, check it out.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

"This SAFT battery likely has a fairly different charge/discharge curve than LiFePo based on the chemistry and nominal voltage."

SAFT also has had LiFePO4 datasheets for awhile now too.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

MN Driver said:


> "This SAFT battery likely has a fairly different charge/discharge curve than LiFePo based on the chemistry and nominal voltage."
> 
> SAFT also has had LiFePO4 datasheets for awhile now too.


Oh ya, for sure. SAFT has been in the battery game for a long time. They're are generally accepted as one of the very best. I was just referring to the one cell mentioned at the start of the thread.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bad news! They would not bid on my order to purchase 5000 cells? Does anyone work in the French Military around here? LOL 

I will keep searching other ways to buy these cells.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

Here' how they work. They'll send you a file and you have to fill it out with your pack details and they'll make the pack for you. After that, they'll make a charger for the pack. Finally, you send them a minimum of $100k (Just so they can get things started, it's not the final price ) along with a contract (They won't just make 5000 cells) that will show them you're not joking and you're set. So expect to spend a few million green backs when it's all done. This is what the Army Research Team said about the VL 5U cell: *Pulse discharge testing using a capacitive load showed that, at an output voltage of 2 V, a pulsed current of 8750 A may be achieved. The minimum cell resistance from the pulse testing was measured to be about 0.23 megohm. 
*
Your best bet for high C discharge cell would be A123's *AHR26700-M1-ULTRA-F1*.


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