# Oregon Bill Would Charge Per Mile Fee on Electric Cars



## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

I was wondering who the first state was going to do this.


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

thats bloddy insane. I don't even pay that much IN TOTAL GAS COSTS gas plus gas tax.

who bloody thought 6 cents a mile was a good freaking idea?

GAS is cheaper than that.

$720 freaking dollars a year for the average driver. Over my dead body. MY cost would be $2400 a year !!! Gasoline costs me $2200 a year.

so they are saying with an electric car I would have to pay $2400 a year PLUS $816 for electricity. boy they sure want to KILL electric car's don't they.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The Oregon bill proposes to charge 0.6 cents per mile. That is $0.60 for every 100 miles.

There is a WA bill on the table that proposes to charge EVs an extra $100 per year fee on the annual registration in place of fuel taxes. Seeing how my wife drives a fuel efficient car 8800 miles a year and I drive a small 4 cylinder pickup 4600 miles per year (both average over the last 4 years), that proposal would make EV unattractive to me from a tax standpoint. And to think, they propose this while giving EV purchase a sales tax exemption!


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

yea but EVEN FOR YOU at 4600 miles thats only 2.17 cents per mile and for your wife 1.1 cents a mile.

thats ok. I could live with that. $100 a year is FINE with me. thats fair (as long as they CAN NOT raise it EVER)

if they run out of money CUST COSTS do not raise it.

I am ok with that.

6 cents a mile is gouging thats insanity.

remember you get a lot more from the roads than just your 4600 and her 8800 miles.

also this needs to be PER LICENSE not PER CAR.

remember with oregon's bill you would pay $276 and your wife would pay $528

OUCH

thats just out and out greedy.

right now YOU are paying about $69 a year in "fuel tax" and your wife is paying about $88.

The average person getting 20mpg driving 12,000 miles a year would pay $180 in fuel tax (its 30cents a gallon BTW) in oregon they would have to pay $720 a year !!!!

so $100 is a good deal. I would not mind that.

6 cents a mile is just insanity. I drive a Geo Metro at 52mpg average. my cost RIGHT NOW per mile with the full price of gasoline is only 5.55 cents per mile including the price of gasoline !!! (right now its $2.89 a gallon)


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## dynoguy (Jun 29, 2010)

If I remember correctly Oregon has been talking about this for a while. The state even put a gps on a few cars to compare road usage of high mpg cars vs low mpg cars and the amount of gas tax each generated. Gotta love it since Oregon likes to see itself as being 'very progressive'.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

That's fair!? A flat consumption tax is a disincentive to conservation. Washington gasoline taxes are 37.5 cents per gallon. A Prius costs about 3/4 of one cent per mile in fuel taxes. The tax bill is lower for me to burn gasoline. The current EV market is aimed urban buyers with low annual mileage who would otherwise be in the market for fuel efficient compact cars and/or hybrids. The proposal would make EVs more costly in "fuel taxes" than the alternatives.

I drive my EV buggy about 1000 miles a year. An extra 10 cents per mile or just swap it back to gasoline? It's not like it has a smog test to pass.

The Oregon tax proposal is NOT 6 cents per mile, it is 6/10 of a cent per mile. That is 10x less! The bill is Oregon HB 2328. I would be paying $27.60 and my wife $52.80 and the Buggy would be about $6 a year for a total of less than $100 between 3 vehicles.


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

ahhhhh OK thats totally different. my bad

I read .06 (which is how I would write 6 cents)

but yeah 6/10ths of a cent is MUCH MUCH more fair !! I would only pay $24 a year THAT I would be ok with  as long as it did not mandate GPS tracking 

my bad


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

How do they know you are driving an EV?

Would you have to register it, or risk being stopped and fined?

In my state one has ever asked me if I had an electric motor propelling my car, and I feel better not advertising it.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

gojo said:


> How do they know you are driving an EV?
> 
> Would you have to register it, or risk being stopped and fined?
> 
> In my state one has ever asked me if I had an electric motor propelling my car, and I feel better not advertising it.


Real simple, every year when you renew you car tags and registration


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

EVfun said:


> The Oregon bill proposes to charge 0.6 cents per mile.


That is not what the news article says. It clearly states $0.06/mile.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Sunking said:


> That is not what the news article says. It clearly states $0.06/mile.


Strait from Oregon.gov:


> (3) A person subject to the vehicle road usage charge shall pay 0.6 cents per mile for metered use of the highways in Oregon.


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

OK neither of you has confirmed or invalidated the point.

.06 means 6 CENTS PER MILE until I see Clarification otherwise.

a lot of people know $.06 is 6 cents so they will PUT cents after that even though its actually making it 6 TENTHS of a cent.

SO I anyone in oregon should be asking for clarification.

6 pennies per 1 mile

or

6 pennies per 100 miles

that QUOTE you provided from the law says 6 pennies per 100 miles but those people are usually morons so clarification would be REALLY nice 

ahh ok sunking below appears to comfirm its 6 pennies per 100 miles.

I did my math wrong too that is STILL a ton of money!! $240 is what my bill would be NOT $24

thats more than I am paying right now in road tax on gasoline per year. thats a pretty raw deal still.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

EVfun said:


> Strait from Oregon.gov:


Yeah I found that right after I posted. I checked because the article also stated 15,000 miles would be charged $90, which equals .6 cpm


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

An excerpt from the bill:



> ...section, the registered owner of an electric motor vehicle or plug-in hybrid electric motor vehicle shall pay a vehicle road usage charge.
> (2) A lessee of an electric motor vehicle or plug-in hybrid electric motor vehicle shall pay a vehicle road usage charge.
> (3) A person subject to the vehicle road usage charge shall pay 0.6 cents per mile for metered use of the highways in Oregon.


Thanks for the bill number EVfun.
Edit: Whoops, didn't see you posted it! Myself I think they ought to go by weight as well as miles, since a gas tax captures both of these. Maybe 3 weight classes corresponding to compact, mid-size, and full size cars, and scale it to be about the same as an owner of an ice vehicle would pay in gas tax, or maybe a bit less to give incentive for ev purchases.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

nerys said:


> OK neither of you has confirmed or invalidated the point.
> 
> .06 means 6 CENTS PER MILE until I see Clarification otherwise.


Where are you getting $.06? The house bill states an amount 0.6 cents, no dollar sign in sight. If you change from cents to dollars it would be 60 cents a mile! Even politicians are not that dumb.


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

I am getting it .06 from the other posts in this thread. the quote was not till just a few minutes ago.

$.06 I got from no where it was just an example to show the difference.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

gojo said:


> How do they know you are driving an EV?
> 
> Would you have to register it, or risk being stopped and fined?
> 
> In my state one has ever asked me if I had an electric motor propelling my car, and I feel better not advertising it.


Well, it remains to be seen how that is addressed, but when money is involved Washington state will get around to addressing it. The Oregon proposal contains a bit about the fines for non-compliance but I haven't seen that in the WA proposal yet. 

For cars less than 25 years old they will fail a smog inspection if the owner lives in one of the urban areas of the state where they are required. You cannot pass the smog test without a tailpipe and some CO2. You will have to get an inspection to change the fuel type on the title (to E, which also means no smog checks.) 

For years lots of people in WA would register their cars to friends addresses to avoid smog and the state didn't bother to do anything about it. Later, an RTA (Rapid Transit Authority) tax was added to registration for people living in the Seattle area. Now people where dodging that with out of area registration and it was noticed by the folks in the capitol. The law was changed to require registration where a vehicle is primarily used and penalties assigned for non-compliance. If the EV tax law is written without penalties for not changing the fuel type then EV made from older cars, or by people living outside of the smog testing area, can simply fly under the radar by saying nothing. But like the RTA tax, this is money in the state coffer so I bet they will get around to requiring the correct fuel type to be listed on the title if they pass some type of registration tax on EVs. Local EVers are fighting this bill in WA and it did die last year.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm not too shocked and expected it to happen. We've had the same system in place here for years, albeit a bit more expensive.

We have "Road User Charges" (road tax) here in New Zealand for all vehicle who use a non-taxed fuel, such as electricity. These Road User Charges cost $47 every 1000km (621 miles) here.

Fortunately, our current government scrapped this tax for electric vehicles until 2013 in order to encourage more of them. Though with our elections happening later this year, a change of government could re-implement the tax.

We shall see.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow, you must have some high gas tax in New Zealand. 7.5 cents per mile would be what a gas car getting 5 mpg pays in gas taxes in Washington state. We still only pay about $3.20 a gallon for regular gasoline (including state and federal taxes.)


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

well there is a reason europe has so many diesels so much mass transit and gas sometimes twice what it costs here in the US. much much higher gas taxes.


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## crashnfool (Sep 26, 2009)

I'd be willing to bet these taxes are being pushed through under pressure from oil companies???


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi. This is why we have people that can't stand Governments. Charging a tax on gasoline for "road usage" is borderline robbery. It means that if I drive a big block muscle car with low efficiency, I pay a lot more for the same distance traveled than a puny 4 cyl. A better calc would be to charge for a combined mile/weight value. Heavier vehicles pay more and all vehicles pay exactly what they've traveled. But of course, EVs changed their scam so now they're scrambling looking for new and more creative ways to cheat EV owners out of more money. I truly hope they put that off for a few years or the EV incentive will die.

JR


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

NO its not borderline robbery not even close. IT IS ROBBERY.

ALL taxation is by definition "theft" if you can not "avoid" the tax by not participating. this is why sales tax is ok and constitutional. you can avoid it buy "not buying" and essentials (food clothing) are not taxed.

A road tax actually does make some sense. (this of course assumes it ONLY goes toward the roads which we all know is a fairy tail)

the idea is simple and fair. charge by the gallon. a car that uses more gas is likely to do more damage.

sure I drive 40k a year and pay less "road tax" than you (52mpg) but I am also driving a little 1400 pound car with 12" tires. its a coffin on wheels.

the road won't even feel me go by 

its not my fault you chose to drive a gas guzzler. I paid my share. my 88 cherokee has 496,000 miles on it (I put 404,000 of them on it) but even that is light duty at 2400 pounds and getting 22-24 mpg.

as long as the tax is close to or less than what we are paying now I am "ok" with it on its face (but always want to see taxes reduced)

I would like it to be LOWER since I am paying TAX on my electricity too IE double taxation.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

JRoque said:


> Hi. This is why we have people that can't stand Governments. Charging a tax on gasoline for "road usage" is borderline robbery. It means that if I drive a big block muscle car with low efficiency, I pay a lot more for the same distance traveled than a puny 4 cyl. A better calc would be to charge for a combined mile/weight value. Heavier vehicles pay more and all vehicles pay exactly what they've traveled. But of course, EVs changed their scam so now they're scrambling looking for new and more creative ways to cheat EV owners out of more money. I truly hope they put that off for a few years or the EV incentive will die.
> 
> JR


It's not robbery, it is a less intrusive way to get close to the goal of road taxation by weight and distance traveled. Do you want annual vehicle inspections to read your odometer and look for signs of tampering with it? Heavier vehicles, on average, get lower fuel economy and all vehicles use more fuel the farther they travel. I'd rather pay on the fuel I use than be going in for annual inspections or have the state lo-jacking my vehicle to record mileage.


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

No its robbery. the roads are supposed to be paid for by constitutional taxation not a separate "road tax"

the road tax on gas I am ok with since its a "sales tax"

direct taxation is not lawful in my book it is robbery. roads should be paid for by sales taxes because THAT is who damages the roads to begin with.

not cars but TRUCKS. so even if you never ever use own get in or drive a automobile YOU should be paying road tax (as part of sales tax) because everything you BUY has road usage in its equation.

the problem is our governments got greedy started squandering the money and now they seek ways to GET MORE MONEY instead of doing what they are supposed to do (spend less stop squandering and stealing it)

this is why the constitution was written to only allow sales and tarrif taxation. it was supposed to be a "self limiting" system.

yes as a country gets bigger the government does have a valid need for more money but as a country gets bigger there would be MORE SALES so more sales tax and tarrifs.

it was supposed to be a self limiting "in the control of the people" system to PREVENT GOVERNMENT from ever getting big and becoming a threat to begin with.

income tax and road tax etc.. are essentially "blank checks"

they are not supposed to REPLACE the lost revenue from gas tax. they are supposed to SPEND LESS to live within the revenue stream available.

you know like WE all have to do when our income drops.


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Now I don't think Ohio is so bad. At least I can drive whatever I want and the gubment don't care or even ask what powers my car. I think at some point Americans are screwed because if we keep adding taxes to people, what are we going to live on?


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

Jason Lattimer said:


> Now I don't think Ohio is so bad. At least I can drive whatever I want and the gubment don't care or even ask what powers my car. I think at some point Americans are screwed because if we keep adding taxes to people, what are we going to live on?


Oh trust me the whole system will come crashing down long before it gets that bad.


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## HDS (Aug 11, 2008)

We don't have such a law in Massachusetts yet but I think that this is more than a tax. What percentage of cars in Oregon are electric? I bet if you sat on a highway overpass and watched every car that passed you would have to be there for several days, maybe weeks or months, before you would see an actual EV go by. It may be more common to see a vehicle that has been converted to propane and gets filled up at his buddy's place that refills barbeque tanks. These guys also avoid the "highway use" tax. The percentage is so low that there is no impact on lost revenues for the highway tax. This is either a "nail in the coffin" for EV's to benefit the oil people, or it is sponsored by a group of people that think "Hey, I am paying this tax, why shouldn't they?" without really weighing in the reality of how immeasurable an amount this really is. 

It is like you may have one in a million vehicles that are EV's and some individuals in government think, "If everyone had one, we would lose all that income! Let's nip it in the bud now!". Doesn't this politician have more important things he should be addressing for his constituents? If I lived in Oregon, I would be researching which of the above possible motives is the real one, and perhaps letting him know that he might be voted out next time around. 

It is good and important that you guys keep everyone informed in these pages. Keep it up.

Thanks for letting me rant.
HDS


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## unclematt (May 11, 2008)

I stop listening as soon as someone claims taxation is theft...

its simply not.


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

So you stuff your head in the sand and go nah nah nah I don't hear you.

GREAT methodology.

DIRECT taxation ie taxation on mere existence (income and property and school and head taxes etc..)

Is by definition theft.

Theft is TAKING something from someone against their will that you have no intrinsic right too.

Direct Taxation as we do it today is exactly the same thing. Your money is TAKEN from you by force against you will without ANY form of effective representation or say.

I pay more in taxation than I get to keep myself. when you add up ALL the taxes the average person pays its more than 50% of their income.

if you don't think that is theft the your problem is yourself.


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## unclematt (May 11, 2008)

nerys said:


> So you stuff your head in the sand and go nah nah nah I don't hear you.
> 
> GREAT methodology.
> 
> ...


 Blah blah blah abl, blah blah blah blah! Blah! Blah blah blah blah blah!

try medicating BEFORE posting


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

you know reality is this funny thing. it has this tendency to impose itself on you whether you agree with it or not whether you stuff your head in the sand or not.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

unclematt said:


> I stop listening as soon as someone claims taxation is theft...


Not very well it seems 

My point here was directed towards the creative ways that Oregon is trying to adopt to tax EVs. If gasoline consumption was used in the taxation formula because it was assumed heavier vehicles, which cause more road damage, use more of it then weight must be a factor in taxing EV usage if it's to be fair. Otherwise, EV delivery trucks weighing much more will pay the same amount per mile than your featherweight roadster.

JR


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

its probable safe to assume commercial vehicles will pay more but remember the only vehicles that really should pay more are commercial vehicles (by and large consumer vehicles are really not much heavier or lighter than each other especially when we start going electric)

also remember there is no such thing as corporate taxation. corporate taxation is just another word for consumer taxation hidden and inflated.

all corporates make profit or they don't live long so ALL corporate taxes are by definition passed onto US.

the only people who actually "pay" taxes are those who can not pass them onto someone below them.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi. Here's someone that agrees with my viewpoint: http://www.kval.com/news/local/115109709.html?tab=video. I don't, however, agree with his self-serving view of not taxing lighter EVs. If there is a tax at all for this, everyone should pay proportionally to usage.

JR


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## nerys (Feb 6, 2011)

sooo are you going to pay when you walk on them? bike on them? roller skate on them?

you going to pay a road tax surcharge when you BUY anything that used those roads?

personally I think road maintenance should come from sales tax not a separate tax.

I was ok with a gas tax because its a SALES tax. no more gas then nothing to tax. CUT SPENDING.

BUT for the most part I am ok with .6 cents per mile as long as its nothing more than odo reading like you do now for inspection. NO GPS on other "tracking" is acceptable to me.

its "fair" it seems to me especially since its based on 48mpg gas car. and I have no doubt commercial vehicles will pay a higher rate.

my concern is once its a per mile tax what it to stop them increasing it whenever they feel like they need more money? if the law CAPPED it at .6 cents a mile and had a proviso that it could NEVER EVER be raised higher. THAT I would be ok with.

you see when "gas and tax" get too expensive we can use less gas. (more fuel efficient car) but with a per mile tax that is ever increasing you gain nothing with better efficiency tax wise.


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

nerys said:


> I was ok with a gas tax because its a SALES tax. no more gas then nothing to tax. CUT SPENDING.
> .


I agree. We have enough taxes already. In some cases we are taxed three and four times for the same dollars earned. When will this idea of a usage tax stop? What's next a tax on the air we breathe?............ Oh wait, they're already trying that one too A.K.A. "cap and trade".


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