# Planning to make a Smarter car... MK2



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

_daily commute during the cold months. 

_I thought you were going to Queensland?
You don't need a heater for those temperatures


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

Duncan said:


> _daily commute during the cold months.
> 
> _I thought you were going to Queensland?
> You don't need a heater for those temperatures


i need an a/c, the reverse cycle isn't that difficult to add
not a priority at the moment,

planning to buy the batteries first and design the holders/modules and maybe build a charger and bms system, will keep me busy.


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

steps to complete car EV conversion still a work in progress


design
battery holder
[del]AMP20 i have decided of 6 packs of (8s4p) with a total of 192 cells[/del]
24 nissan leas modules

charger
thinking emw diy charger


power system
kelly says 24v is recommended, what kind of difference would i expect how important is it 


diff Terios(6.5:1)
shafts between diff and wheel, no idea what to do
mount


controller
placement
water cooling jacket (maybe oil to go with the motor)


motor
coupling no idea what to do
mount
cooling will be looking at submerged oil cooling, followed by oil misting.


get parts
motor KL-9000M (arrived)
[del]controller KHB14601 [del] will be making my own
batteries
should be able to fit all batteries under the car.(12kw)
how do i want the weight distribution to be finished, if i place all the batteries in the middle the car will be less % towards the rear as it is now. will need to measure weight distribution before removing the motor.
wiring/connectors
break pump
fuse holder
main contractor
12 or 24


dc/dc converter
maybe a cheep psu or dedicated converter


fan


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

just ordered the motor so i can have a look at oil cooling, and getting it mounted into the car.

have designed a 1.5 - 2kw battery charger, just waiting for my pc to be fixed to mill a circuit board.


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

the spammer has left the buliding
the AMP20 would cost $3,600 shipped to my house and weighs 100kg + the cases, i am willing to build the cases to get them to work for the amount of money saved

does anyone know what cars i could get a small oil to water heat exchanger?
also thinking of 2 of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171063435673

if the motor is 90% efficent, and the car uses 4.5kw to drive at 80kph, then there will be around 450w of heat, during acceleration there could be over 3.5kw to have to dissipate. the thermals of the motor should help with the peak values, but the cooling system will need to be able to deal with over 500 watts of heat.


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

As a coupling between motor and diff I suggest (1) flex joints from powerful ICE cars. They will align hobby-at-home tolerances for you. I do believe that the following also works: (2) Spline-Out (on motor) + Spline-In (on the other side), but you shall manufacture within 30 micrometer accuracies, apart from axial alignments. (3) Elastic suspension of motor may lead to undesired vibrations; you should check that with FEA (apparently you design the connection motor-diff yourself).


Drive shafts: I will send (in my case case the diff is also not from the donor vehicle) 4 driveshafts (from 2 different vehicles) to a (rallyworld) specialist, to make them blend. I have also seen someone doing it himself, by rotating in V-groove and gradually build up X-welds in the solid shafts. 

-paul-


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

thanks,
i do have a cnc that i made, i haven't used it for metals yet, should be able to get it to pilot a mount and finish it with the drill press.
if not those couplings look interesting


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

The german flex joints will help you and if you are lucky, you find the accompanying hub with the right spline size that fits on your electric motor or on your diff. 
(to clarify) My option (3) was about a rigid connection between motor and diff; a metal bush without flexibility. What happens then… is elastic deflection of all other parts in your vehicle. 






DC-DC:I found a really cheap ($100) one that runs on 370 VDC from Mean Well (PB-series goes to 1000 W)
If you charge your 12V battery during driving, you need more power than –if the DC-DC is connected full time-. 
Good luck with the planning, keep your parts list updated for us, inlcuding the open issues.
paul


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

yes, it does depend on the motor mount, it would be nice if i could get the right spline for the motor and diff.

battery
i have decided of 6 packs of (8s4p) with a total of 192 cells


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

What is your voltage level now? If you want a cheap and efficient heater, you can tweak domestic reverse cycle AC. 

It would not surprise me if those mass produced AC / heaters run well on 48 VDC (behind a built-in rectifier), so you don't need a 230 V 50/60HZ inverter at all to make such a device work in your EV.


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

min 134.4	nom 153.6	max 172.8

it will cost around $200 + re gassing cost to make the current one r/c, but with oil cooling the motor and water cooling the controller, i hope that there might be enough heat there to work as defrost

while looking a designing the batteries, there should be cell separators to help with even spread of load.
trying to figure what would be the best to use?
something like these
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...iber_Cloth_450x1000mm_48g_m2_Ultra_Thin_.html


also looking at the Nissan leaf battery modules, buy can't see to find any in aus or any one who is using them. they seem to be better price wise.


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

i cant find a terios front diff. are there other cars that also have a high gear ratio >5


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

diff over 5: no, only 4WD land cruisers and equivalents, often with solid axles. Terios is really a winner, I wish I knew about that diff when I choose mine. That is:

up to 4,77: mazda rx7 old, or a reworked mx5 diff.

terios is on ebay for $100, but overseas shipments will be required. 

about the dc-dc mw-pb: your low voltage level is still in range.

today I bought a radiator of a kawasaki gpz500, for water cooling motor + inverter... nice small equipment. Are you clear with that side of your SmarterCrMk2? 

paul


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

There're factory 5.125 gears in Al housings for Sidekick/Vitara (for IFS axle); accesory gearsets are over 6:1 but a bit pricey...


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

bradleyk said:


> i cant find a terios front diff. are there other cars that also have a high gear ratio >5


Where have you looked ?
call all the wreckers around your area you will find one quick.
manual is 5.5:1
auto is 6.5:1
Call New Model Wreckers Smithfield NSW on 9721 2333
they have 9 Terios'


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

Canberra doesn't have many wreckers, there weren't any diff's in the terios's that I've found.
Thanks rip, will call them in the morning

Thanks z power


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

bradleyk said:


> Canberra doesn't have many wreckers, there weren't any diff's in the terios's that I've found.
> Thanks rip, will call them in the morning
> 
> Thanks z power


I checked with the wrecker, there is an early and late model diff.
You should get the early one from an automatic.
The early ones have better mounting lugs.


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

cheers,
one of my local wreckers have got one in, $350 for an auto one. 
just bought some trolley jacks and stands, time to have a look under this car


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

See if you have enough room to keep the motor and diff horizontal and don't rule out angling the drive shafts rearward a bit for more room.
shaft center to hall end of motor is 520mm


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

im hoping there will be enough space, but i will need to remove the motor to be sure.
just trying to decide between the Nissan leaf modules or making them my self from amp20's, .

http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/in...new-11kw-h-battery-block-182v-60ah&Itemid=605

i have designed a bldc Controller will need to get a couple parts in to assemble it, should be able to handle 250A continuous


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

the motor has arrived, time to look at oil cooling, current plan is to either fill the motor with oil and seal it then place a water cooling jacket around the motor.
or drill holes in the case and pump oil through the motor.

RIP do you know if the motor uses a standard spline and what it is? cheers
got a pic from fanny, will make a model of it later


and i assume the red wire is plus 5 and the black is gnd, with the other 3 being the sensors


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

mmm motor with it's cover off 

time to fill it with some ATF from a prius at this stage.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

bradleyk said:


> RIP do you know if the motor uses a standard spline and what it is? cheers.


Not a standard spline but I have a spare wire cut taper lock bush with sprocket that you can weld something to for the diff flange. $120 plus post.
Don't do jackets around the motor, too messy.
Oil through the motor sounds doable. steel pipe squirting oil into the rotor /stator gap on the Hall end and drain like a dry sump at the drive end.


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

that wire cut seems good, i am interested in making a mold and making a silicon resin to use as an adapter

with jackets, i would probably make some water blocks that fit to the motor, doing this would be non destructive to the motor.
like these one's
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=205595&postcount=1

oil through the motor would cool the motor better, with the motor being horizontal, i would think that i will need to have the motor submerged in oil


i have decided to order 24 modules will be around $122 per module 7.4V 60ah


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

designed a bms, about to implement it on a couple of bread boards will work with batteries with 0-4.5v.
will have a master. and a serial link. currently have 1 atmega8 per 4 cells. currently looking at 3.50 per board in parts ~90c per cell.


got confirmation that the batteries have shipped.
started to remove the o;d motor from the car


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

good news or bad news?
the engine is out









but the motor won't fit connected to the diff. in any direction 









i think i might need to mount the motor above the diff and use a chain, or have the motor come up in to the boot


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

bradleyk said:


> designed a bms, about to implement it on a couple of bread boards will work with batteries with 0-4.5v.
> will have a master. and a serial link. currently have 1 atmega8 per 4 cells. currently looking at 3.50 per board in parts ~90c per cell.


any more details on ur bms??


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hey Bradley. I can't see where the motor and diff should go in that pic. Do you have a side by side of the motor next to the ice for comparison? Have you seen Jabert's smart conversion where he used a VW transmission and moved the whole lot over with different drive shafts? I expect you don't want that complication but mounting the motor above is complicated and not worth it. 

I expect you can shorten the motor some with external forced air cooling. See what Mr Ripperton can advise.

Have you got the Terios diff? Why not use the smart transmission and remove the gears you don't want to give a single speed drive but allow you to keep the standard drive system and mount the motor transverse for more room etc? It is relatively simple to strip the extra gears from the box and add a few spacers to keep the correct location of the gears. You could even use a second gear locked as a parking brake! 

Any more pics? I'm very keen as I want to do one of these builds myself also. Thanks


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

arklan said:


> any more details on ur bms??


what you you like to know?
500ma bypass current
still programming.
i have ordered the pcb's



tylerwatts said:


> Hey Bradley. I can't see where the motor and diff should go in that pic. Do you have a side by side of the motor next to the ice for comparison? Have you seen Jabert's smart conversion where he used a VW transmission and moved the whole lot over with different drive shafts? I expect you don't want that complication but mounting the motor above is complicated and not worth it.
> 
> I expect you can shorten the motor some with external forced air cooling. See what Mr Ripperton can advise.
> 
> ...


i do have the diff, that picture isn't the best. it is from the back of the car with the motor going toward the front, will be taking another tomorrow. the gearbox in the smart is electric and would prefer to loose the extra weight/complexity.

https://plus.google.com/100662802523863482856/posts/2828Jks1Ni7


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

mmm pretty


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

i have batteries


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

it's been a while, time to get back into it.
i have ordered the wiring.
i am designing a Pre-charge and safety unit.
that

Checks for a ground fault between chassis and traction positive or negative
Checks for a fault in the e-stop line
Precharges the caps in the controller.
Makes sure that pre-charge and safety check is complete before energizing main contactor

about to start designing a mount for the batteries


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## bradleyk (Apr 3, 2013)

I have the brake system installed.
it's not worth doing unless it's worth overdoing.
i get 6 brake presses stored in the chamber.
welding lying on my back was interesting. and i can't get the angle grinder in to tidy it up...


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## laddertech (Nov 5, 2016)

Looks like a great project. Have you tried your motor with the oil bath yet under load? Cheers


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