# zilla error



## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

I am getting this error on my Zilla 1HV. 
error: 1224 : SLI battery too low and caused shutdown of controller. 

My aux battery is at 12.8v and seems to power lights, wipers, etc easily. I have an Iota.

francis


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

That is more likely a 12 volt system problem. The Zilla is very sensitive to brief drops in the 12v system. I was often getting that error when I turned on the headlights. The hit was so quick I couldn't see it drop. What have you changed in the vehicle lately?


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

EVfun said:


> That is more likely a 12 volt system problem. The Zilla is very sensitive to brief drops in the 12v system. I was often getting that error when I turned on the headlights. The hit was so quick I couldn't see it drop. What have you changed in the vehicle lately?


Here are a couple of things that I question:

1: I have 2 small UPS batteries in parallel (small 9ah each) used for my 12v system. (but this does not really matter as it is only a buffer? And don't some people not even use a 12v battery?)

2: After a week or so of not using the car the 12v batteriies become run down, but onboard clock, link 10 and other aux elec parasites may explain it.

3: If I connect or disconnect my HV pack, I get a spark. Is this normal? 

thanks
Francis


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

This may be it!! I just gotta understand what exactly he is talking about.  ie 14v? (battery only supports 12.8v) This also explains the check engine light coming on when I still have High Volts. Still what causes the voltage to drop below 14v and how do I fix it? I am checking grounds now.

Q: At what voltage do the 1223 and 1224 errors get triggered.


A: 1223 and 1224 errors relate to the 14V supply to the Hairball dropping too low for the Hairball to insure safe operation. 1223 is just a warning that you are getting low (if your check engine light lights when you hit the brake lights, check your DC-DC pretty soon!). When a 1224 error happens it indicates that the controller actually was shut down due to too little voltage on the 14V supply.
1223 // SLI battery below warning threshold. This should happen at about 10V
1224 // SLI battery too low and caused shut down of controller. This happens at about 9V.
If you are looking at the DAQ, these voltages should show up at about .0625V per bit.
At this time there is a known issue with Hairballs running code versions prior to 2.12 potentially corrupting their own settings if the 12V supply falls too rapidly while the key is on. The only time we’ve seen this is on cars with loose connections or those not running a 12V backup battery in addition to the DC to DC converter. This happens when the Hairball is in the middle of saving a low voltage error when the power fails completely. If you suspect this may have happened to yours then the repair is to reset the “Defaults” in the “Special” menu and then go back and reset the settings to those of your choosing.
-Otmar


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

Could someone explain the Zilla 14v system requirement when the battery is only supplying 12.7v or so? thanks
Francis


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2011)

My system likes more than 12 volts. I'd get a dc dc that outputs 13.8 volts from your pack. Kelly makes a good dc dc converter if you don't need too much amperage for other things. Some even use to of them to cover the aux needs. I don't like using the batteries because the aux batteries usually drain to low when you least want it to happen then funky things start to happen. My controller is sensitive to going below 11.8 volts. It's easy to drop below that with an aux battery. Not so with my DC DC. It is always at the 13.8 volts. My controller is always happy. Works fine for the needs of a basic VW including the head lights. I don't or did not use a stereo. Only need for lights and brakes. 

Pete


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

Ok, so if i understand this correctly, my iota (specs out>13.4vdc, in108-132AC) takes my pack voltage and supplies >13.4vdc to the hairball and also charges the 12v battery.

Since the incoming voltage is DC would it be lower than voltage provided in VAC? 

Hmmm, I wonder if the previous owner tapped off a voltage somewhere in midpack for the DC/DC converter since the total SLA voltage was around +168v. Or would the Iota work at this higher acvoltage range?

Francis


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2011)

Quite possible. Many with lead acid batteries would tap off but even with lead it is not a good idea except for short tests. 

Pete


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

spdas said:


> I am getting this error on my Zilla 1HV.
> error: 1224 : SLI battery too low and caused shutdown of controller.
> 
> My aux battery is at 12.8v and seems to power lights, wipers, etc easily. I have an Iota.
> ...


I had the same problem with one of my hairballs. Try shortening the length of your ground wire to the hairball or split the start input and key input into one wire and switch.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

spdas said:


> Could someone explain the Zilla 14v system requirement when the battery is only supplying 12.7v or so? thanks
> Francis


The Zilla's hairball will operate with voltage as low as 9 volts, the voltage is not your problem.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

spdas said:


> This may be it!! I just gotta understand what exactly he is talking about.  ie 14v? (battery only supports 12.8v) This also explains the check engine light coming on when I still have High Volts. Still what causes the voltage to drop below 14v and how do I fix it? I am checking grounds now.


We are getting somewhere here. I would assume you have the older firmware and that you had the 12 volt system crash to rapidly and just do the complete reset, then reprogram the controller. I would also check the length of the ground wire from the Hairball to the vehicle chassis. There is a length limit, it needs to be very short or strange things can happen (ask Ron about that.)

The 12 volt system of a car normally runs about 14 to 14.5 volts. It is trying to charge the 12 volt battery while you are using it. It should be fine at 13.4 volts (my Kelly DC to DC keeps things at about 13.5 volts) but that is in the float voltage range for a lead acid battery so I don't really recommend the DC to DC converter be shut down when the vehicle is off. 12.8 volts indicates that the system is not properly charging those little backup batteries.

The Iota converter is actually an AC to DC converter that happens to work with a DC input. It works at full output power only above 135 volts DC. From 135 volts down to about 95 volts the maximum current it can provide at >13 volts drops from its full rating down to 0 amps. You cannot take the input voltage above 200 volts at any time or I would expect it to fail with a pop.


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

Hopefully we are getting somewhere. I have a few questions.

1: My 12 v battery dies during the week as I only use the car once a week. How do I have the Iota keep the batteries charged

2: I can shorten the ground a bit as it is fairly long and connections can be improved

3: I notice when I disconnect my HV pack I get a spark so there are amps going somewhere. Does the Zilla use current when off? It can't be the Iota as the 12v battery dies if not used.

It just rained and I left the hood open, got a few splatters so will wait until tomorrow before I turn the key on. 

thanks
Francis


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

spdas said:


> 1: My 12 v battery dies during the week as I only use the car once a week. How do I have the Iota keep the batteries charged
> 
> 2: I can shorten the ground a bit as it is fairly long and connections can be improved
> 
> 3: I notice when I disconnect my HV pack I get a spark so there are amps going somewhere. Does the Zilla use current when off? It can't be the Iota as the 12v battery dies if not used.


1. You Iota would need to be left connected to the pack whether the vehicle is on or off. I've always wired my EVs that way. One would have to look over the wiring diagram to see how to make that happen while making sure everything is still properly fused. 

Alternatively, you could set the Iota up so you could plug it into an outlet when the vehicle isn't being used and into the vehicle when using the car.

2. Cafe Electric recommends the ground wire be no longer than 4 inches from the Hairball to the vehicle sheet metal (ground.) You can get away with a longer wire than that with a Z1k but make sure the low voltage hairball wiring and high voltage wiring is kept well apart (the precharge wiring shouldn't be bundled with the 12v wiring.)

I have quite a case in my Buggy as the body doesn't provide a ground so the wire is about 12 inches between the Zilla and the DC to DC negative wire. Right in the middle of that is a 4-way connection. There is a 10 gauge wire to the frame for chassis ground, a 16 gauge wire from the contactor negative, the Hairball ground wire, and the DC to DC negative. This has been working fine. 

3. Without understanding the wiring diagrams for your car it is hard to say. The precharge system does draw a little current when the car is otherwise off. You could be disconnecting the DC to DC when you disconnect the pack or pack instrumentation could be the source of the current draw.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

My car battery will go dead when not in use and not plugged into the charger. I suspect the zilla as well. I don't use a dc to dcconverter.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Yes, the Zilla uses a little bit of 12 volt power and a little bit of pack voltage power when off. You will notice a little LED lit on the hairball when the precharge wires are hooked up, even when the vehicle is off. The 12 volt power keeps the Hairball at the ready. You can actually change settings with the car off (I usually do as I have the start input wired to the ignition switch input.) 

I'm not sure how much but both draws seem to be well under 100 milliamps, perhaps even under 20 milliamps.


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## ws64play (Sep 17, 2008)

Hi Folks,
I am using a very small 12 volt battery for a garden tractor as my SLI battery.
Back in the spring of 2009 I had trouble with the SLI battery being drawn down too low energize the Hairball.

I found that the SLI battery connection to the Zilla Hairball, "SLI+ 14V Input" (pin #2) was the source of my low current draw.
To correct the draw problem I removed the constant SLI+ 14 volt connection to the 12 volt SLI battery, and replaced it with a jumper between "SLI 14 Volt Input" (Pin #2), and "Key Input" (Pin #3).
This gives the 12 volts from Pin #2 to Pin #3 so that the hairball can get the 12 volt input it needs to do the controller system diagnostics. The only down side is that when I turn the key on I must leave the key in the "on" position for just a few seconds, to give the hairball enough time to do it's system check before turning the ignition key to the "start" position.
This wiring change cured my Zilla's 12 volt battery draw down.
Have a good EVening,
Wayne
www.waynesev.com​


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

I've been having weird shutdowns with my Z2K for a while now.
Usually the errors indicate 1132 "did not communicate during precharge" or 1133 "lost communications with controller".

I'm suspecting either:
1. I've got 12V battery problems (today the 12V battery was at 12.0V with no load, i.e. empty)
2. I've got electrical noise/pickup problems
or
3. that my Zilla is damaged...

Symptoms/sequence of events

Car completely off (breaker in pack off, 12V battery isolated)
switch on 12V battery (via an Albright big red button)
switch on pack by closing big Heinemann breaker
get into car, switch ignition to IGN
wait for vac pump & ABS to sort themselves out (around 5 secs)
twist key to Start, contactors engage (if I'm lucky - see lower down list)
press throttle, motor spins
put tranny into D, drive car slowly up & down driveway...

then... (usually if the motor revs up a bit)
contactors drop out, Z2K reports 1132 "did not communicate during precharge", 1133 "lost communications with controller" followed by 1141 "main contactor high resistance"

clear errors on Z2K using trusty macbook...
try ignition key again, nothing! controller won't re-engage contactors, error codes now show 1132 "did not communicate during precharge"

I have pack voltage still (no blown fuses), 12V fuses are ok too

I'm going to try charging the 12V battery up tonight, in case it's a 12V issue.
If that doesn't work, I'm starting to think about having a second 12V battery with it's own small DC-DC, just for the Zilla (so the surges from things like the ABS pump don't upset it)

Anyone got any other ideas? It's a long way from here in the UK (i.e. expensive & a PITA with HM Customs) to return the Zilla for repair, so if I need to send it back I want to be sure it really does need repair!


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## spdas (Nov 28, 2009)

Found the problem, Rather Gene with Manzanilla-Zilla found the problem. "I was not getting full throw on my throttle" because of floor mat in the way, etc.
Here is my last message to Gene, that explains it all,

Aloha, Throttle travel sure was the culprit. Since I am in a wheelchair, I use hand controls and throttle pedal was only going down 7/8 of the way. And the floor mats were maybe hanging it up another 1/8, so I was only getting 3/4 throttle, total. I re-adjusted the hand controls, trimmed 1/2 inch off the plastic underside of the pedal and also made the full throttle-stop of the Hall pedal 1/16" more travel. Now the 2007 Yaris warp/zillaHV/144V180ah Calbs. make the car scream.
Under 20mph in 3rd the front 195/50/15 tires break loose (even with positraction) and all you get is burning rubber smell inside the cab. 0-50 is about 3-4 seconds. Probably have still more performance available as the amps were only at 650/motor and voltage at 115v.
OK I am enthused. 
thanks for your help, Gene

Francis


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

electricmini said:


> I've been having weird shutdowns with my Z2K for a while now.
> Usually the errors indicate 1132 "did not communicate during precharge" or 1133 "lost communications with controller".
> 
> I'm suspecting either:
> ...


I don't think it is the last one, but it sounds like you could send your hairball in for a code update. Some of the older code versions can be a bit over-sensitive. The multiple error codes for a single shutdown hint to a code version less than 2.12 (just got that word from Otmar on the EVDL.) 

I would start by checking the 12 volt system out. Low 12 volt usually shows up as one of those 2 codes (or both.) Turning on the headlights in my buggy used to sometimes throw an error and let the car keep running, other times shut the Zilla down from a brief glitch in the 12 volt system to brief to see. Still other times it had no effect on the Zilla (a soft start system for the headlights fixed my problem.)

I would check the hairball ground wire length. It isn't supposed to be over 4 inches to the frame to minimize noise issues. You can usually get away with longer but not always.

I would verify that the ferrite bead is still on the communication cable between the hairball and Zilla. That is important. I would then look at how wires are routed. Running the communication cable or the 12 volt lines right next the the power cables increases the chance of noise issues.

I would consider using the terminal program to reset the Zilla as a quick drop in the 12 volt power can cause data corruption in the hairball (something the current code version is suppose to fix.) 

If everything looks good feel free to ask more questions or share more details of your setup (pictures?). You can also contact the good folks at Manzanita Micro that make and service Zillahttp://manzanitamicro.com/s.


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## DNut10 (Feb 10, 2013)

ElectricMini, let me know how this worked out for you...I'm having exactly the same problem!


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

DNut10 said:


> ElectricMini, let me know how this worked out for you...I'm having exactly the same problem!


It turned out to be a bad 12V battery, and the main pack had weak batteries in it too.

The car does drain its 12V battery quite quickly (like in under 1 week).
I suspect the Zilla is using a significant amount just when idle, so I might just put a switch in to isolate it completely when the car is not in use (which is most of the time, given the terrible state of the main pack!)


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## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

ws64play said:


> ...I found that the SLI battery connection to the Zilla Hairball, "SLI+ 14V Input" (pin #2) was the source of my low current draw.
> To correct the draw problem I removed the constant SLI+ 14 volt connection to the 12 volt SLI battery, and replaced it with a jumper between "SLI 14 Volt Input" (Pin #2), and "Key Input" (Pin #3).
> This gives the 12 volts from Pin #2 to Pin #3 so that the hairball can get the 12 volt input it needs to do the controller system diagnostics. The only down side is that when I turn the key on I must leave the key in the "on" position for just a few seconds, to give the hairball enough time to do it's system check before turning the ignition key to the "start" position.
> This wiring change cured my Zilla's 12 volt battery draw down.
> ...




I had the exact same issue and found the same work-around. 
However, i wanted my equip. to function with a key input. 
I sent my Hairball and Power unit to Manz. Micro for repairs. 
They said they could not determine the issue or repair it. I ended up buying another Hairball. . 
I hope this one works longer than the first.​


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