# Electric power steering pump



## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

I read somewhere that there is a electric power steering pump for a Honda or a Toyota, But I couldn't find the thread. 

Anyone use one of these? How about other ideas?


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

toyota mr2 uses electric pump,i priced them on a parts site once...i'll try to find it again....they were only $132 remanufactured..i'll post again if i find it!


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

also 2006 malibu...saw one on ebay recently


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Pretty sure the BMW Mini uses a lot of electric ancillaries. I suspect that the AC and the PS pump are both electric.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Have a look here

http://www.bba-reman.com/content.as...teering_and_electric_hydraulic_power_steering

Take your pick.

I think


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## helixev (Nov 7, 2007)

Here is where I got mine, it works great 
http://www.usedpartslive.com/catalog/?N=11789+4294966977+1725+9304

Pump: $149.95	
Core: $64.10
Total: $214.05

It was a little pricy but it's a lot cheaper than from canev: http://canev.com/KitsComp/Components/PowerSteeringKit.html 
they quoted me $875 last year


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

here,s a reman mr2 pump about the sane price as in the last post.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/d...CardoneQQP-fs-S_PumpQQ19911993QQA1215500.html


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

So has anyone used one of these?

Care to share any info of success, current draw etc?

Any aussies found a local source?


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## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

OK, Another stupid question...

If you were to add a electric power steering pump, would it be possable to use the traction pack ( 144V ) instead of using the 12v aux battery? This would save the inefficencies of a DC/DC converter... Anyone tried it?


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Dunno for sure but I doubt it, Hi voltage DC motors tend to be fairly large and pretty heavy. All of the units I've seen look to have small and light motors on them. Hell, one I've seen, a VW polo/seat Ibeza unit I think it was, looked like twice sized washer bottle pump.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

For those who are interested I found a site where a racer fitted an MR2 pump to his racecar.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2222562

In a nutshell he said the conversion was SUPER EASY explains whats required and how to do it with pics.
He listed the AMP draw as 15A with no steering input and 30-50A when turning the wheel quickly
Interestingly he recons a standard pump pulls up to 8.5hp from a motor!!!


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

This guy is selling pumps on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=260232039305&rd=1


There's a link to youtube on the page that shows the pump running on his car
BUT he also has Hydroboost brakes and they also run on the same pump.
\Very interesting!!!


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## helixev (Nov 7, 2007)

I was going to get one until I realized the guy is in Israel. If you are in Australia maybe that doesn't make much difference if you have to order over seas anyway.
One nice thing about that pump though is that the fluid reservoir is built in unlike the mr2 pump that I have where you have to add in a reservoir.

Here are some pics of the mr2 pump in my truck.

Key code for picture 2: 
1 - mr2 power steering pump,
2 - Fluid reservoir from a Saab, I think,
3 - 75A relay,
4 - High-Amp bussman 100A auto-resetting breaker.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Lexus said:


> Why not just go with a Electric Power steering Unit


I think they need a manual rack under them and if your model donor car only had hydraulic racks then they are no good.

HELIXEV, from what I've read the mr2 pump can draw between 12 to 60 amps, and one fella I saw put one on his racecar and said it's loud. 

Care to comment?
Do you think it adversely affects your range at all?
Does the noise intrude?

Those pumps have an adjustment screw on them to match the pressure to the rack. If you adjust the pressure on the pump down to the lower limit that the rack requires I wonder if the amp draw can be lowered.

BTW Ebay UK seems to have more than its share on pumps, I saw 1 from an Opel astra that had the bidding at 60P with zero bids!!!


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## coil_nine (Apr 22, 2008)

I had the same question and searched the forums. This thread on these forums gives a Canadian EV source for both PS/PB units
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12372&highlight=power+steering

this is my first post on the forums, so if the link is not true, search for the thread

DIY Electric Car Forums > EV Conversions > All about EV conversions
Accessories and HP required

I'm a newbie. Please verify this next info for yourself. As to power required, just like the car motor, it is only required at the instant of need. The instant of turning or braking it starts to draw and only in proportion to the opposing force, otherwise it is totally quiescent. Unless the darn thing is running all the time like a belt driven ICE. But running all the time makes no sense.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

coil_nine said:


> Unless the darn thing is running all the time like a belt driven ICE. But running all the time makes no sense.


Unfortunatly the electric hydraulic psu's do run all the time . That means in that case of the MR2 unit, there is a constant draw of at least 12 amps ALL THE TIME, and it can peak at 60 amps under load (though most of the time it would be much lower). What I don't know, being a newbie myself, is how much of a detrimental affect that might have on range.
The Non hydraulic units such as the one suggested by LEXUS would DEFINATLY be the way to go if putting P/S on a non P/S car, but why would you want to complicate a conversion? Just have no P/S.

Unfortunately in South Australia where I live, you must present the care for compliance with all the features it was produced with. So if it had P/S from the factory, It MUST have P/S to get compliance. You cant take the P/S (or the air conditioner) off.

The racer I mentioned earlier says his regular pump sucked 8.5hp peak from his motor as measured on a dyno. The MR2 pump only pulled .25-.75hp via the alternator!!

How does that translate to an EV?


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## helixev (Nov 7, 2007)

DVR said:


> I think they need a manual rack under them and if your model donor car only had hydraulic racks then they are no good.
> 
> HELIXEV, from what I've read the mr2 pump can draw between 12 to 60 amps, and one fella I saw put one on his racecar and said it's loud.
> 
> ...


It is a little noisy but you don't really notice it when your inside the cab.
It does draw around 12 amps when it's not under load and I have not tested my truck with out the pump running but it is pulling energy from the auxiliary battery which is charged through the built it dc-dc in my controller. I don't know how this would affect range but I am going to add a switch so I can turn the pump on and off in the cab and then I can test... I can't imagine it's that much but everything adds up and my current energy use is atrocious running @530wh/m.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

I just had a thought 

I think P/S uses a open loop system (might not be the correct term) so the fluid is allways circulating.
Could it was set up with the the other way. meaning that fluid only flows when it's needed?

Power boats use a hydraulic system on outboards I think. I've seen marine pumps with accumulators on them and the pump only runs when the pressure drops below a threshold.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## coil_nine (Apr 22, 2008)

DVR said:


> I think P/S uses a open loop system (might not be the correct term) so the fluid is allways circulating.
> Could it was set up with the the other way. meaning that fluid only flows when it's needed?


ICEs can afford open-loop control systems because they have an essentially unlimited energy supply. Electric should use closed loop controls with feedback for every blessed system because their on-board stored energy is much more limited. It would take sensors to determine a change in fluid pressure or change in wheel angle. Or a direct-assist motor with all the sensors already on the steering column like I have seen in some pics. Toyota electric steering? I forget.

PS and PB is necessary for my family, even for a relatively small car (we now have a Hyundai Elantra). Some members are not capable of muscling the wheel or brakes.

Many closed-loop systems would mean you are essentially "flying by wire". That is a romantic notion, like piloting an advanced fighter.


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## tazdotnet (Apr 9, 2008)

i'm with you coil_nine, i can't muscle the steering because of the condition my hands are in (it's genetic)... and my car is too heavy to stop without power brakes...


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm wondering if there is any one out there with an FB1-4001 that runs power steering of the back of it.
If you could run the motor at say 1000 rpm and let us know what amps it pulls while you turn the wheel lock to lock. Then we could compare that to the amps pulled by a bare FB1-4001 at the same RPM.

This might be informative as to comparing the "running cost" of an MR2 pump which we know can pull 12-60 amps compared to running a standard pump of the back of the traction motor full time.

What ya recon? Any volunteers?


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## helixev (Nov 7, 2007)

I wired in a dash switch for my power steering unit so i can manually turn it on and off and I have been driving mostly without it  it's not near as hard as I thought it would be. I haven't noticed much change in range, I think it addes a couple amps from the traction pack through the dc-dc.
The power steering certainly is handy for navigating parking spots and driving off road though.


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## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

DVR said:


> I'm wondering if there is any one out there with an FB1-4001 that runs power steering of the back of it.
> If you could run the motor at say 1000 rpm and let us know what amps it pulls while you turn the wheel lock to lock. Then we could compare that to the amps pulled by a bare FB1-4001 at the same RPM.
> 
> This might be informative as to comparing the "running cost" of an MR2 pump which we know can pull 12-60 amps compared to running a standard pump of the back of the traction motor full time.
> ...


I thought of running the PS off the drive motor, but when you need the PS the most, the drive motor wont be spinning...


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Twilly said:


> I thought of running the PS off the drive motor, but when you need the PS the most, the drive motor wont be spinning...


That's why I was asking how many amps an FB1 draws when it's "idling". I'm trying to figure out which is more efficient, either running an 12V electric power steering pump off of an MR2 or running the original pump of the back of the FB1.
I think at the moment the MR2 pump has the advantage of being able to turn it off with the flick of a switch of you dont need it, and then turning it on if you get into a tight spot like a car park


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## heynow999 (Mar 2, 2008)

I was at the scrap yard a few days ago looking for a 12v vacuum pump for power brakes. I noticed on late 90`s GMs something that looked like an electric power steering pump. All I remember is it was hooked up to the power steering, and it didn`t look like it had a belt on it. I didn`t pay too much attention to it as I was not looking for something like that. Maybe someone knows what it is. Being on a GM, it would be widely available, at least here in North America.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

heynow999 said:


> I was at the scrap yard a few days ago looking for a 12v vacuum pump for power brakes. I noticed on late 90`s GMs something that looked like an electric power steering pump. All I remember is it was hooked up to the power steering, and it didn`t look like it had a belt on it. I didn`t pay too much attention to it as I was not looking for something like that. Maybe someone knows what it is. Being on a GM, it would be widely available, at least here in North America.


These days lots of cars (mainly European I think) have electric power steering, some use electric hydraulic (meaning that there is an electric motor running the pump and can pull big amps) but most seem to have a pure electric system with no hydraulic oil at all and the steering is "assisted" buy a servo motor.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

the newer chevy malibu (2006 and up) has an electric pump,they come up on ebay once in awhi;e and are available at salvage yards.the last one i saw on ebay went for $160 + shipping.


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

Twilly said:


> I read somewhere that there is a electric power steering pump for a Honda or a Toyota, But I couldn't find the thread.
> 
> Anyone use one of these? How about other ideas?


Hi,

This should help:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2222562


> This outlines the adaptation and fitting of a Toyota MRII Electric Power Steering unit to our DC2 Integra Racecars. This system uses an electric motor to drive a hydraulic pump which in turn provides hydraulic pressure to the conventional Honda power steering rack. We have refined this swap and we will be producing a complete bolt on kit in the near future.
> 
> The reason for this swap is twofold: (A) to reduce the Horsepower drag from the engine driven power steering pump. On an engine Dyno the stock DC5 ps pump and rack uses 8.5 hp peak, while in a straight ahead position. On a lower powered B series the loss was 5 hp peak. The power loss from EHPS is between 0.25 and 0.75 hp (via the alternator), depending on steering load.


Best Wishes,

Mitch


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I learned recently that the Mazda Rx8 uses an electric assisted steering rack. No fluid pump of any kind. Just an electric rack.


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

xrotaryguy said:


> I learned recently that the Mazda Rx8 uses an electric assisted steering rack. No fluid pump of any kind. Just an electric rack.


Hi,

An electrically assisted rack is probably a better technology. The problem is that it will be a lot easier to retrofit an electric pump to a vehicle with hydraulic power steering (just replace the pump) than to replace the entire steering rack.

Best Wishes,

Mitch


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## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

MitchJi said:


> Hi,
> 
> An electrically assisted rack is probably a better technology. The problem is that it will be a lot easier to retrofit an electric pump to a vehicle with hydraulic power steering (just replace the pump) than to replace the entire steering rack.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the controller for the electric assist might be the issue...


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Twilly said:


> Sounds like the controller for the electric assist might be the issue...


I don't think so here in Australia the wrecker next door to where I work got the whole kit for a diahatsu for $300 through his connections in Japan

But therse thing are only good for you if your upgrading a non power steering rack. If youve already got regular power steering and no version of your car had a manual rack then I don't think you can use a electric servo rack or column. The types of cars that have these racks are very common, we just don't know them all yet.


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