# Zilla 1K-LV Review Thread



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I received my Zilla 1K-LV a few weeks ago, but I just got around to install it due to transmission problems. I purchased it from EV Components and eagerly waited for about 2 months while production was being built up. 

Anyways, I finished upgrading from my Kelly KDH09401 to the Zilla 1K-LV, and it was a big difference in how the EV operates. First, the Zilla is isolated, my Kelly was not. That means I had to flip off my breaker and unlpug my main ground from the battery pack to the controller every time I went to charge. I also had to wait for the controller to precharge before I started up. It was a chore and scared away other family members from driving it.

With the Zilla 1K-LV I don't have to do anything special to boot it up or charge the EV. 

Now for performance. I have yet to drive outside of my neighborhood, but I currently have the Motor AMPS set to 450 and Battery AMPs set to 180 while I break in the pack. I hope to increase that in due time to 250 battery AMPs.

I have to say I am very excited right now, with my big massive EV grin.


----------



## paker (Jun 20, 2008)

Looking forward to your thoughts about the Zilla!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Ok, so I have had two test runs so far, and I am impressed. My batteries need babying since they have like 2 maybe 3 cycles on them, but it didn't stop me from punching just to see what happens.

Some EV background- My Civic is a 96 volt system using 8x Walmart MAXX29 125 Ah deep cycle batteries, a total of 12KWh pack. I am using a 4 speed automatic transmission and the EV was designed for my commute at around 35-45 MPH. My previous controller, Kelly KDH09401 400 AMP could barely keep 35 MPH and when an incline came into play, it just died. 

With the Zilla, I was able to hit 40 MPH without problem, but I don't know how much faster I could go. Speed limit was 40 MPH and the cops were around, so pedal to the floor was not an option. I did, however hit 45 MPH before I knew it and did have to slow down. I did use the Zilla's DAQ function, using ZillaConfig java program and I will post graphs once I figure out how to make them forum friendly.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Here is todays ride data:


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

I recognize that sort of graph! Pure chaos, isn't it? 

You can make it more intelligible/useful by separating out just a single full throttle acceleration onto the interstate, for example. The transmission shifting will much things up some but that may not be a huge issue.

It's good to see actual performance data from a controller, isn't it?


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> It's good to see actual performance data from a controller, isn't it?


Looks like he has an idle set in there on his system  What do you think?


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

major said:


> Looks like he has an idle set in there on his system  What do you think?


Always the troublemaker!

Yeah, it looks like motor current never goes to zero. Need RPM data to see how well it idles, though.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> Always the troublemaker!
> 
> Yeah, it looks like motor current never goes to zero. Need RPM data to see how well it idles, though.


Yeah, I have idle, but I don't have an RPM gauge yet. As for the Idling, the transmission doesn't seem to complain at all. 

I am using the David gauge for idle RPM: if I step on the pedal and the transmission jams into gear, then RPM is too low. If I move the shifter and it jerks, its too high. Right now it seems just right. I actually used a power drill to measure the RPM needed to keep the ATF pressure up and it was about 60 RPMs. I could spin the torque converter by hand and build up pressure. 

I'll have to get an RPM sensor that easy to install and doesn't force me to remove my motor.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> I recognize that sort of graph! Pure chaos, isn't it?
> 
> You can make it more intelligible/useful by separating out just a single full throttle acceleration onto the interstate, for example. The transmission shifting will much things up some but that may not be a huge issue.
> 
> It's good to see actual performance data from a controller, isn't it?


It's great getting some real data. What stats would be useful? Yeah, the transmission does shift from 1st to 2nd at 15 MPH and 2nd to 3rd at 30 MPH and I never use 4th, at least not yet. I would like to get some freeway in, but I haven't had the guts to take it past 40 MPH yet.

I'll have to find some long stretch of road to get some good data off of. I have to figure out what my winter range is, but it will probably be poor because the batteries are not broken in.

I will also be recording data from a nasty hill I have on my commute, maybe tomorrow afternoon. It's a 6.25% incline with a speed limit of 30 MPH. My Kelly could keep up at about 4 MPH. Hopefully the Zilla will keep up, needing to give up 306 Motor AMPs for 40 seconds or 227 AMPs in 2nd. OOHH I can't wait to try it!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Ok, so I went out and did my hill test with cold batteries and I could maintain 32MPH! I also did my cruise, and I don't have the battery AMPs listed in the graph, but the average AMP draw as between 75-85 AMPs, pretty darn nice.

The hill has a 6.25% incline, just FYI.

Also, I can get up to 40 MPH in 2nd with the Zilla, where the Kelly lost power by 30 MPH in 2nd. 

Some parts of the graph show me really punching it cause I wanted to. This test drive was really un-EV friendly of me. I just wanted to see if I needed power, I could have it and I do!

I also noticed that the temperature of the Zilla got up to 27C and it's only heatsunk. Once I locate a water cooling system, I will get it and pump it through my heater core for some extra defrosting power. 27C is ~80F, and that could possibly add something to the EV defrosting.

Any other tests anyone wants to see? I just love driving my EV! Although, I will preheat the EV for the next drive, I was too excited to do that today and it's 23F out!


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

glad to see your EV working great.

are you thinking about upgrading to a higher voltage or switching over the lithium?

what is the maximum speed(mph) that 96V can accelerate too?


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Bowser330 said:


> glad to see your EV working great.
> 
> are you thinking about upgrading to a higher voltage or switching over the lithium?
> 
> what is the maximum speed(mph) that 96V can accelerate too?


I have no idea what speed it will get up to, probably 60 MPH or so. 

I have been thinking about going Lithium. Raising my voltage at this point would mean a new DC/DC, Circuit breaker and charger, so really expensive and I don't have much room for more batteries. So Lithium is on my mind, 100 Ah at minimum but not sure yet. I would like a nice solid 35 miles with a lithium pack, so I am going to research the amount to do that. I always have the option of avoiding the highway for any commutes, and all it costs me is about 8 more minutes of travel, but at a much slower speed.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I have found a 2 mile stretch of 55 MPH freeway that I may try out tomorrow, if I get gutsy enough. I usually stick to the 45 MPH stretches if I need to use it, but a few tests shouldn't be bad. Can't be much worse than climbing that damn hill, with the pedal almost to the floor.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

So an upgrade to lithium would cost about 3300$ for a 96V pack & 100AH cells..9.6kwh of energy. Considering the weight savings, this upgrade could enable a 45-50mile range(100%DoD) at 45-50mph.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Bowser330 said:


> So an upgrade to lithium would cost about 3300$ for a 96V pack & 100AH cells..9.6kwh of energy. Considering the weight savings, this upgrade could enable a 45-50mile range(100%DoD) at 45-50mph.


That is something I am seriously considering for next year. I would lose 300 lbs of lead and get a large increase of usable battery capacity.

I am going to have to research the lithiums more, but 96 volts 100 ah TS cells look fine to me. My only real requirement is a solid 18 miles to school, then charge up for the day. Right now it takes about 63% of my lead pack (12KWh) to make it, and once I pass the 50% DoD the voltage sag is ridiculous and I slow down so I don't abuse the pack at all.

A decent sealed lead acid pack is about $2300, so why not go for the lithiums with 1/2 the weight and 4-5x the cycle life? Now I just need to save my pennies by driving the EV instead of my ICE!!


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> ...A decent sealed lead acid pack is about $2300, so why not go for the lithiums with 1/2 the weight and 4-5x the cycle life? Now I just need to save my pennies by driving the EV instead of my ICE!!....


Don't forget MUCH less voltage sag, and you can continuously draw 4C (400 Battery Amps) without any issues...Meaning @ 50% pwm you would have 800A to the motor. Which is some healthy torque!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Bowser330 said:


> Don't forget MUCH less voltage sag, and you can continuously draw 4C (400 Battery Amps) without any issues...Meaning @ 50% pwm you would have 800A to the motor. Which is some healthy torque!


That is a lot of torque! My lead sled has LOTS of lag in this cold. The batteries are in the mid 40's F, whiles it's 28F outside. I do have the batteries insulated, but I don't think it's tight enough. I have messed with it so much in the past two months that I know it's no longer sealed and I need to take some more duct tape to it. 

I haven't done any more Zilla-approved battery abuse because I don't want to murder my fresh pack. They are definitely starting to be broken in, and have about 18 miles on them. My last pack needed over 140 miles to be mostly broken in, so I have a lot of in town driving to do this winter break. Once broken in, I will attempt a freeway run and hopefully get nice pretty graphs on that. 

I have also fixed my shift point adjuster, so my next run will be a little more tuned for efficiency and another run tuned for good clean hard driving fun.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I don't have much to report yet, except that I love the Status part of the Hairball when connected to a laptop. This morning I got into my EV, started it up and a few seconds later it went dead before I put it into gear. I had no errors, full battery and all my wiring checked out. Nothing happened when I hit the pedal, or restarted the EV.

So I hooked up my laptop, loaded up ZillaConfig and started up the EV and found the Zilla "Waiting for Pot to Zero". It turns out that my Idle circuit had a loose solder (actually it was a resolder that I did when I changed from the Kelly pot configuration to the Zilla, but apparently never soldered back together) and sometimes it would connect and sometimes it would not. 

I was freaking out before I hooked up the laptop because everything had checked out and I couldn't figure out what happened, but the Zilla status made things really easy. I still have a long way to go to break in my batteries, but I have been slowly stacking the miles up. Tomorrow I am going to go on an Eco-Cruise and see how efficient I can drive around the neighborhood and get a nice graph out of it.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I am busy with finals, but I did get to do my drive today. I went around town and drove like I usually do, very EV friendly and easy on the pedal. The Zilla gave out a peak of 300 Motors AMPs during my drive and I tried to keep my battery amps under 125 as much as possible, usually around 60-90 AMPs.

My batteries were at about 47F while it was 30F outside, and I have about 5 cycles on them, so I have a serious ways to go. Each time I drive the batteries get a little warmer and now that I have really sealed them up with insulation, it seems to be holding the heat longer. I want to put on at least 25 cycles before I try out the freeway, so I need to drive the EV more, like 2 or 3 times a day with charging in between. Oh, and I am counting cycles as battery discharges from 100% to 75% State of Charge, so about 4 miles a trip before I charge up again. So I need another 80 miles of driving before I attempt the highlight of my Zilla testing.


----------



## F16bmathis (Jun 6, 2008)

I have 3600 miles on my Zilla, have gone to 78 mph, after driving 10 miles first. Normal driving is 16 miles to work on mostly highway, sit 8.5 hrs, then 16 miles home, maybe another 5-10 miles after getting home and plugging in a little. My question is... How do you know where to set the Zilla's setting at? I had it initially at factory defaults of 1000 amps, whatever for motor volts, ect. I always heard a rumbling sound from the motor, so I've reduced battery amps to 500, (144V pack, Trojan T-105's, Warp 9") and realize the pack doesn't like to exhale more than 200-300 amps, or so I've heard over the net.

So even limited to 500 amps, don't remember the voltage, I still hear a rumbling sound at lower rpm's (I do have a guage) so I let off the juice, and accelerate slightly slower. Is the rumbling sound arching on the motors communicators?

Should I reduce it even more? Where should I set motor voltage, amps, ect... at? I love your chart! Is that a zilla function? Guess I could read the manual...

Brian
www.evalbum.com/1752


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

F16bmathis said:


> I have 3600 miles on my Zilla, have gone to 78 mph, after driving 10 miles first. Normal driving is 16 miles to work on mostly highway, sit 8.5 hrs, then 16 miles home, maybe another 5-10 miles after getting home and plugging in a little. My question is... How do you know where to set the Zilla's setting at? I had it initially at factory defaults of 1000 amps, whatever for motor volts, ect. I always heard a rumbling sound from the motor, so I've reduced battery amps to 500, (144V pack, Trojan T-105's, Warp 9") and realize the pack doesn't like to exhale more than 200-300 amps, or so I've heard over the net.
> 
> So even limited to 500 amps, don't remember the voltage, I still hear a rumbling sound at lower rpm's (I do have a guage) so I let off the juice, and accelerate slightly slower. Is the rumbling sound arching on the motors communicators?
> 
> ...


I don't get any rumbling, maybe a little "static' sounds when the motor first turns on, but no rumbling. 

The chart is not a Zilla function really. I use the ZillaConfig Utility http://casadelgato.com/ZillaConfig.html
and using DAQ mode I save the data to a CSV file and open it in Excel. I don't like to pull any more than 150-180 AMPs accelerating, and 250 AMPs at the most. I usually like to keep up well under 100 AMPs while driving.


----------



## F16bmathis (Jun 6, 2008)

I get the static sound at VERY low rpm, but I got that on all the EV's I've had. Its more of a loud grinding sound while accelerating at 400+ amps. I usually let off a little so it goes away. I'll put a remote camera on the motor one of these days!

Hey, right, doesn't the Zilla record the data, then you can download it later? I gotta try that!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

F16bmathis said:


> I get the static sound at VERY low rpm, but I got that on all the EV's I've had. Its more of a loud grinding sound while accelerating at 400+ amps. I usually let off a little so it goes away. I'll put a remote camera on the motor one of these days!
> 
> Hey, right, doesn't the Zilla record the data, then you can download it later? I gotta try that!


Ok, that loud "grinding" sound is the Low Voltage warning the Zilla gives out. The Zilla uses you motor as a loud speaker to give some warnings. That means when you are stomping on it, the Zilla sees that you are getting close/exceeding your preset Low Voltage and does something about it. Mine did that too when I set the LVI too high and I would stomp on the pedal and hear that, then feel the Zilla kick into lower AMPs.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Oh, and the Zilla doesn't save any data, except for error codes. You have the use the ZillaConfig app with the laptop plugged in while driving to get any graphable data.

I have been nailed with finals this weekend, so there will be no EV driving until maybe Monday afternoon, after I get slaughtered with my last final. On top of that, we are supposed to get 16+ inches of snow tonight and my EV still doesn't have heat.


----------



## F16bmathis (Jun 6, 2008)

Well that would figure! It does seem to make that sound at different times. I should check to see if its only at lower voltages. I do have the low voltage set at 125V, it gets there occasionally, especially when I romp on it!

Any chance you know much about Thundersky LiFePo4's and battery management systems. I wanted to get a 100ah set of Thundersky's, but after spending hours searching, I can't seem to find a good BMS. I even found one guy who is skipping the BMS and just checking his weakest battery every few drives, which seems like alot of work for an easy maintenance EV! I'm just about to click on the Thundersky's "send to cart" button on evcomponents.com, but the BMS thing keeps me up at night!


----------



## F16bmathis (Jun 6, 2008)

I gotta try logging that data at least once. I saw you guys did get the snow! I added a ceramic heater (found a $20 heater at Big Lots, take it apart and its got a better mount and thermostat and safety switch and the ceramic heater is identical to the $120 heaters from evparts.com) Put it in the S10 yesterday and drove in 10 degree cold, heated just fine. Two would've been really good, but didn't want to waste the juice.

Good luck with finals!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

F16bmathis said:


> Well that would figure! It does seem to make that sound at different times. I should check to see if its only at lower voltages. I do have the low voltage set at 125V, it gets there occasionally, especially when I romp on it!
> 
> Any chance you know much about Thundersky LiFePo4's and battery management systems. I wanted to get a 100ah set of Thundersky's, but after spending hours searching, I can't seem to find a good BMS. I even found one guy who is skipping the BMS and just checking his weakest battery every few drives, which seems like alot of work for an easy maintenance EV! I'm just about to click on the Thundersky's "send to cart" button on evcomponents.com, but the BMS thing keeps me up at night!


I have also been thinking about getting 100 AH TS cells for my EV when my lead sled dies out. As for a BMS, you can check out Dimitri's MiniBMS, but I am working on my own design. I built a lead acid BMS last summer and have been using it in my EV since then with good results, and I am now working on making it LiFePO4 compatible. I have a 35 day long winter break starting Monday afternoon and I plan on working on my BMS and zipping around town in my EV!


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I am going to start to put together a drive log every time I drive. I haven't been able to get any nice Zilla graphing since vacation has started because I have been using the EV to haul siblings around so the data port for my laptop has been taken up by passengers. 

I am also going to adjust the Zilla for a max of 125 battery AMPs to properly break in the batteries in a decent time. It is way to0 easy to pull the batteries past 10.5 volts/batt with this cold weather and power of the Zilla. I am just going to cruise around our block 5 times, which is a little over 5 miles and do this once, maybe twice a day and the batteries should be set in a week or two.

I also have a new suspension system coming that should fix my low riding rear and help with a better alignment.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I have some more graphs. I did both these runs today, and they are the same route of 3.3 miles. I usually do a 3.8 mile test run, but that route goes through a school zone and they were rather busy today. 

The 3.3 mile loop goes through a few small hills, 1.5 miles of 35 MPH w/inclines, then some stop and go. Not very EV friendly at all, but it's a good test.

What I did today was to drive around and figure out how much AH it really took to run around in my EV. My first run was at 10:00 AM, and it was about 20F outside, batteries were about 28F. I used 11.47 AH during that run according to my numbers that I got using the ZillaConfig utility. My second run, at 3:00 PM and well after a full charge, used 10.47 AH.

I also had to adjust my charging voltage as it was too low for this cold weather, and that may have contributed to the second run using slightly less AH.

In my EV happiness drive I completely forgot to stop off at Car Quest to see if they had any coil compressors for my new suspension, and I drove right by it. There is always tomorrow.


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I did a lot more break in cycles this past week and have found that my was using 312 Wh/Mi running my test route, which is about 3.3 miles. I did this about 10 times this week and each run came about the same, depending on how pedal happy I was. 

I went through my previous data with my Kelly and found that was using 333 Wh/Mi doing that same route. 

Then this weekend I finally got to install my new Skunk2 Race suspension system in the rear. I made sure my tires were inflated up to 36 PSI front, 38 PSI rear and I did the test run again, twice actually. Both times it came out to about 270 Wh/Mi! I didn't realize my rear wheels were dragging that much!

Since installing the Zilla, and upgrading my suspension I have netted a 19% increase in efficiency, way more than I had expected. It is going to snow like 11 inches tonight so tomorrow I might try EV fun in the snow tomorrow.


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> It is going to snow like 11 inches tonight so tomorrow I might try EV fun in the snow tomorrow.


Here is a quickie video of CroDriver with his BMW Zilla in the snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqBXQ1lq0PE


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I have increased my driving route for breaking in my batteries, to 4.8 miles from the 3.3/3.8 I was doing. This route add another 4 stop/go patterns and part most of the second half it the first half, just reversed. This means more inclines, and my resulting efficiency was 274 WH/Mi, still pretty darn good compared to what I have used too. I also hadn't driven the EV in three days due to the driveway being jammed full of truck from the Oil company working on out heating system. (House construction, lots of new plumbing and radiators)

Tomorrow I will be doing this route again, and after getting a full charge from that run the EV needs to go in for inspection. It passed last year with a low suspension, control system tied down to a closet shelf with rope, and old brakes and it passed, so I expect no problems. The car even has "Electric" as the fuel type on the inspection papers, so it should be quick and easy.


----------



## BarryAustralia (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi, 
Has anyone used ZillaConfig with a Macintosh. I try to launch ZillConfig.jar by just double clicking but I get a "could not be launched" error.

Barry


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

BarryAustralia said:


> Hi,
> Has anyone used ZillaConfig with a Macintosh. I try to launch ZillConfig.jar by just double clicking but I get a "could not be launched" error.
> 
> Barry


I haven't used a Mac in ages, but it sounds like you need to install the latest version of Java.


----------



## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

So what kind of cooling does the Zilla run? Is it air or water and which is preferred?


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

few2many said:


> So what kind of cooling does the Zilla run? Is it air or water and which is preferred?


It will do either, but has the water cooling built in and air cooling requires a heatsink. I am doing air cooling for the moment because I already had a large size heatsink from my Kelly. Water cooling is preferred for lots of high power usage, but so far I haven't come close to using the full potential.


----------

