# Curtis 1238 96 volt 550 amp



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I switched to another controller and now Im not getting any movement but the controller is heating up. There are no faults and all looks good and ready to go. The contactor is also getting hot. I use 12volt key to switch the solenoid and the controller provides the power to the large contactor. I have a 24v contactor but I think I need to use a 48v one as HPEVS has recommended a higher voltage contactor. It did not get that hot with the older controller. Anyway, I tested the voltage and I do get 5 volts but when I monitor the throttle I am not even getting 1 volt when at full throttle. The wiring harnesses are correct. I now have my computer program connected to gain access to all the parameters. There is a bunch of parameters so one must be very very careful not to muck with too much. I do have OEM access to everything. I also have the hand held programmer. I like the computer better. Easier to work with. I am not sure if the encoder is any good with the AC-50 motor. I will swap out the AC-35 next to see how it responds. The encoder settings are correct. 

Anyone with any ideas? 

Pete


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

I have lots of ideas  Okay, so you have the programmers. You should be looking at the diagnostics, stuff like throttle demand, current, and anything else that may indicate what is the controller doing so that it's getting hot. Some contactors get hot as part of their normal operation, especially those without economizers. Make sure your PWM settings are correct for the contactor though given the coils are lower than your pack voltage.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Curtis controllers use contactors without economizers. The HPEVS default settings should get the motor running without issue. 

Yes, I have the the OEM computer programmer and the hand held OEM computer programmer. Both are functioning just fine. 

What are your ideas?


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Curtis expects a contactor without an economizer, but Curtis allows you to program the holding duty cycle - if you have it open all the way, then the contactor may get hot. 

I already said - you want to see where is that current going through the diagnostics and why. Controller shouldn't be getting hot doing nothing.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> Curtis expects a contactor without an economizer, but Curtis allows you to program the holding duty cycle - if you have it open all the way, then the contactor may get hot.
> 
> I already said - you want to see where is that current going through the diagnostics and why. Controller shouldn't be getting hot doing nothing.


I think it is doing something. Just not what Im expecting. I was expecting it to just fire up. There are not that many wires to deal with on these controllers. I just need the absolute basic setup for now. Im not even concerned about the contactor getting hot after a few hours of mucking around with this. So my next move is to swap motors. My other motor is an AC-35 with an internal encoder vs the external encoder. I think the controller is trying to run the motor but it is not moving. Not sure why. I need a parameter check with someone who has an HPEVS motor working.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I am getting no faults.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So off to change the percentage of power for my contactor or just change it to my 48volt contactor. So what do I do. I'll change the percentage. Now to try to get the throttle to work. I know the throttles work but they are not working with this. Maybe another percentage thing to adjust or something.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

"Something is broken" - that's not the engineering way. You have to quantify the symptoms, decompose a large problem into smaller workable units, etc. Otherwise you might as well just post these to Twitter.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> "Something is broken" - that's not the engineering way. You have to quantify the symptoms, decompose a large problem into smaller workable units, etc. Otherwise you might as well just post these to Twitter.


Here is how the (broke) system plays out. First nothing is broken. It has to be with the wiring up of the system in a basic format to get the motor to run. That is all I want right now. Just to spin the motor. Once that is done I can go through the system adding components as needed. I can't get the 2 wire pot to work of which I have three that all work on my DC system. I have one 3 throttle position which works with my DC system. The only fault I have gotten using two different motors and two different controllers and two different wire harnesses is a wiper high fault. No other faults. On the old controller I am using a 24v contactor and changed the parameters for that and it still heats up. On the newer controller with the HPEVS software I changed the contactor to a 24v and lowered the percentage to be sure it stayed open and it no longer heated up. So that was one positive move I did today. I played with the this today for hours this evening and got nearly no advancement. I can however use the newer controller and keep the contactor from heating up. Still no movement. With the older controller if I connect two wires when I turn it on the motor slowly spins without any throttle input. That is with either the two or three wire throttle. I do switch to the correct throttle when I either use the two or three wire before trying and I do cycle the controller to be sure the changes are kept in the controller. All the parameters look good on both controllers. I have been following the wires that are said to be used for the throttle from the connector to the component. So when I did get the one controller to move the motor the I had some jerky movement and the wires from the motor to the controller bounce around but the motor still does not really spin and during that short brief shaking of the wires the wires get real hot and the heatsink of the controller heats up.

Any suggestions? I'll post the video of the wires bouncing around when I did get the motor to somewhat turn. Can't leave it on long as it will get real hot. So something is happening. It will not happen with the newer controller. Nothing changed when I changed motors so the motors are fine. My AC-35 is new and so is the 1238 650 amp controller. That controller will not move the motor. Only the old 1238 550 amp controller will do that weird thing with the motor and wires.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

onegreenev said:


> That is all I want right now. Just to spin the motor. Once that is done I can go through the system adding components as needed. I can't get the 2 wire pot to work of which I have three that all work on my DC system.


You don't need to worry about the motor to troubleshoot / tune the throttle. You have the programmer. Configure the throttle type, then use the diagnostics menu to see what the raw values are, and what is the computed throttle demand is (that one also takes direction switch into account). You likely have incorrect dead band settings, but all of that is fixable if you just use a method for solving a problem instead of jumping back and forth 

I assume your controller was provided by HPEVs, then pay attention to where you monkey with the throttle - it's not in the main menu, but rather in the "user settings" or something like that. HPEVs has a VCL that overrides some settings including throttle when the controller starts up by copying some values from that menu. Also HPEVs VCL doesn't support 5k-0 throttles, so hopefully yours are 0-5k ones.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> You don't need to worry about the motor to troubleshoot / tune the throttle. You have the programmer. Configure the throttle type, then use the diagnostics menu to see what the raw values are, and what is the computed throttle demand is (that one also takes direction switch into account). You likely have incorrect dead band settings, but all of that is fixable if you just use a method for solving a problem instead of jumping back and forth
> 
> I assume your controller was provided by HPEVs, then pay attention to where you monkey with the throttle - it's not in the main menu, but rather in the "user settings" or something like that. HPEVs has a VCL that overrides some settings including throttle when the controller starts up by copying some values from that menu. Also HPEVs VCL doesn't support 5k-0 throttles, so hopefully yours are 0-5k ones.


I would assume the controller is set up for any type throttle you have and you just need to select the throttle type and wire it up according to the type which I have done. I know where the user values are located and where to change them. Just no book telling you HOW To change them and to what and why you might want to do that. I assume the package comes ready to run out of the box in its basic format. I have looked into the VCL. There is no instructions on HOW to do the setting up of specific things if they don't work as expected. Im not just willy nilly jumping back and forth. I did need to be sure it was not the controller or motor. It is not so that has been ruled out. Configuring the software without knowing HOW is dangerous. I would hate to brick an expensive controller. 

Check out the video I posted. Like I said in my other posts. The throttles I have are Curtis Throttles sold with the HPEVS kit. They are the two wire PB-6 throttles. I have a bunch and they all work on my DC Setup. Same with my 3 wire throttle like you can buy from EVWest. This is what I have and EVWest has a cheaper replacement that is exactly like this one. Evnetics Billet Aluminum Throttle Potentiometer, EV West - Electric Vehicle Parts, Components, EVSE Charging Stations, Electric Car Conversion Kits


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

I tried to advise you on the way I'd troubleshoot it. Not much I can add to that.

Regarding the "book", HPEVS has the documentation specific to their VCL. Here is one link for example : https://www.hpevs.com/Site/images/j...rogram_Instructions_REV_A_VER_5.13_9_5_18.pdf They describe the software version identification so you can use the correct doc from them. It's a bit confusing, because they repurpose some of the Curtis terminology, but it may have a different meaning. Specifically, Throttle Type in HPEVS context is different from Throttle Type described in the Curtis docs, watch out for that. And of course their kits are meant to be programmed using the Spy Glass and the menu button, but it can all be done via the User Settings menu.

My kit didn't come with a throttle or a contactor. I am skeptical it's intended to work out of the box even if yours came with extra accessories. Motor was pre-characterized, and that's about it.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> I tried to advise you on the way I'd troubleshoot it. Not much I can add to that.
> 
> Regarding the "book", HPEVS has the documentation specific to their VCL. Here is one link for example : https://www.hpevs.com/Site/images/j...rogram_Instructions_REV_A_VER_5.13_9_5_18.pdf They describe the software version identification so you can use the correct doc from them. It's a bit confusing, because they repurpose some of the Curtis terminology, but it may have a different meaning. Specifically, Throttle Type in HPEVS context is different from Throttle Type described in the Curtis docs, watch out for that. And of course their kits are meant to be programmed using the Spy Glass and the menu button, but it can all be done via the User Settings menu.
> 
> My kit didn't come with a throttle or a contactor. I am skeptical it's intended to work out of the box even if yours came with extra accessories. Motor was pre-characterized, and that's about it.


So just in simple terms since your's didn't come with a throttle or contactor what actually did YOU change to make it work? I have the contactor issue done. As for the throttle! There is either type 1, 2 or 3. I have both 2 and 3. The wires connecting them is pretty straight forward. 

PS. I have every damn manual I could find and been through them all. I am missing something for sure but extra ideas and thoughts. I highly doubt switching from the handheld or computer to the spyglass will make a lick of difference in programming these things. The spyglass is for user and not OEM so the basic things are available there. Im not using the OEM for basic user functionality but I am also not changing OEM parameters because it was configured from HPEVS. Should only need to pick a throttle and wire it up accordingly. I'll go the spyglass route which by the way is the most annoying way. The computer is much easier. You just go straight to the part you need to configure.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

onegreenev said:


> So just in simple terms since your's didn't come with a throttle or contactor what actually did YOU change to make it work?


Throttle Type had to be set. After which I used the diagnostics menu to verify throttle input is interpreted like I would expect. One of the things I did was to setup a demand curve that's not linear, so my throttle has a lot more fine control at low speed.


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

cricketo has already tried several ways to tell you to monitor the throttle inputs via your interface. I would recommend the handheld for _monitoring_ vs the PC software, but that's just my preference.
That said, this looks less like a throttle setting problem and more like an encoder or phase connection problem. Maybe just the "swap 2 phases" setting or "reverse encoder direction" setting will get things moving, however they may be worded differently on your software.
With no throttle applied, go to and observe: monitor---motor----motor speed--- and turn back and forth the motor by hand if you can (probably tough with the AC current it is applying to dance the cables).

For later: with the contactor PWM clicking, it sounds like you can tune that further. Use the 48V coil contactor if possible.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Pulled up my programmer to refresh my memory regarding all the settings (and the terminology, since I sometimes mix up Curtis and Sevcon). So most important thing, in Monitor/Inputs there are the following values of interest :

Mapped Throttle - throttle demand as calculated based on all the settings as a percentage. When you're "flooring" it, it should get close to 100% or whatever.
Throttle Pot - voltage it's picking up on your throttle input. Again, should change within a reasonable range as you're manipulating the throttle. Should easily see if there is an electrical issue, or the throttle type is misconfigured if the voltage doesn't seem to change within an expected range.

Under User Settings / Throttle Settings :

Throttle Type - throttle type according the HPEVS docs, not Curtis docs. For example, Type 1 will map to Curtis type 2 (this value will be under Parameters/Throttle menu as Throttle Type and should not be changed directly), if I remember correctly.
Deadband - controller will ignore throttle input until the voltage reaches that level. When I was messing with the Throttle Types, this value was getting messed up. So worth double checking it's set to what's expected.
Throttle Max - opposite voltage. Basically the voltage that controller will consider as "full throttle." Same as above, should be within the correct range after throttle type is set.

Regarding the deadband stuff above... If the throttle input is ~5v at 0%, and ~0v at 100%, then deadband would be something like ~4.5v and max would be something near 0v. If it's the opposite, 0v at 0% and 5v at 100%, then dead band will be ~0.5v and ~5v for max. That is regardless of whether the throttle is a *pot, or a voltage source*.

In the end, if the Mapped Throttle says 100%, but the motor is doing what it's doing in the video, throttle is fine and we go to the next thing to troubleshoot. Engineering method, not the guess work.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> Pulled up my programmer to refresh my memory regarding all the settings (and the terminology, since I sometimes mix up Curtis and Sevcon). So most important thing, in Monitor/Inputs there are the following values of interest :
> 
> Mapped Throttle - throttle demand as calculated based on all the settings as a percentage. When you're "flooring" it, it should get close to 100% or whatever.
> Throttle Pot - voltage it's picking up on your throttle input. Again, should change within a reasonable range as you're manipulating the throttle. Should easily see if there is an electrical issue, or the throttle type is misconfigured if the voltage doesn't seem to change within an expected range.
> ...


Throttle voltage is at .52 volts minimum from monitoring the throttle input. The Dead band is at 3.0v and max voltage from monitoring is 4.82v. I have a 0 to 5 three wire pot. Im mapping out the wire harness and I am using the HPEVS bare bones wire schematic for a basic get it up and running. Some of the wires from my harness are not the same color code so Im fixing the color code so I don't get confused looking for a wire color that is not present. The colors are what are messed up on a couple wires and all else looks great. 

I did swap out the Supplied Killovac Contactor and believe it has some kind of economizer in it as I checked the pack voltage across the contactor and on the hot side it is at 112 volts and the other side after turning it on it read 96 volts. With the new contactor I am getting proper pack voltage to the controller. The Killovac contactor will be use only in a DC setup. I am using the gigavac 48v contactor now. I'll post after I do a couple more moves. Still no movement on the newer controller. I only get movement on the old controller with Curtis software only. I pulled that controller for now.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

0.52v sounds reasonable at 0%. What is the voltage at full throttle, 4.82v ? What is the Mapped Throttle at full ?

Dead band at 3.0v seems high. If basically your throttle voltage range is 0.52-4.82v, it effectively doesn't do anything until you move the pot past 2/3 of its travel range or something like that.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> 0.52v sounds reasonable at 0%. What is the voltage at full throttle, 4.82v ? What is the Mapped Throttle at full ?
> 
> Dead band at 3.0v seems high. If basically your throttle voltage range is 0.52-4.82v, it effectively doesn't do anything until you move the pot past 2/3 of its travel range or something like that.


The max is 4.82volts. The throttle is mapped out at 100% from what I can tell. Even with a high dead band I have moved the throttle to its full open and get nothing. I'll fix the dead-band. I'll look at the map percentage again. 

Pete


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Map is a different thing, that's actually to control that proportionality of response. Mine is set at 20%. Either way, if you were seeing 100% Mapped Throttle in Monitoring, throttle isn't causing the problem.

What is your Control Mode Select value at the very top menu level ? Then the RPM values under User Settings / Speed Settings ?


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

onegreenev said:


> I did swap out the Supplied Killovac Contactor and believe it has some kind of economizer in it as I checked the pack voltage across the contactor and on the hot side it is at 112 volts and the other side after turning it on it read 96 volts. With the new contactor I am getting proper pack voltage to the controller.


Not to jump around, but that kilovac contactor sounds to have toasted contacts. Mucho V drop across the posts = heat.
Economizers are a small DC/DC converter that act on the coil. You will see a small box on the side of the contactor if they have one.

I agree with you cricketo about a step by step process to sort out the settings, but it may be faster if someone uploads a full functioning parameter set here for comparison. 
I may be able to do that later but am in the middle of a move and have some deadlines.
OP, are you able to save and post your param files here from the controller you are currently connected to?


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

That's a good point. If he shares the file, I can open it with the programmer and see if anything stands out.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Here is the parameter file that is currently active?


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

Thanks, but it is pretty grainy. Can you include the .par file as an attachment?


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

DMPstar said:


> Thanks, but it is pretty grainy. Can you include the .par file as an attachment?


Sorry about that. I loaded the file on my google drive. With this link you can download and it is a safe to download file. It is the only file in the folder HPEVS. I couldn't directly link the file with the link to file menu icon. 






HPEVS - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## wstein25 (12 mo ago)

I'm interested to know what you eventually find out. I don't know the details of the Curtis controller (yet), but I can tell you this: When you power up and those large power cables "jump", it is because there is a huge magnetic field around those cables and this is caused by huge currents. You should be very cautious or you will fry your controller. Back in my college days in wind power engineering, doing inverter development for a demonstration project, I had a current clamp transducer connected to a 'scope so that I could observe the PWM waveforms. It will be very hard for you to diagnose the problem with out some basic tools. Start with multimeters on your 3 phase motor leads, see what they read when you power up the system. Measure the current in those motor leads with a clamp-on ammeter if you can. I hope the controller isn't toast already.


----------



## wstein25 (12 mo ago)

Can you double check your encoder connections to be 100% sure they are correct?


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

wstein25 said:


> Can you double check your encoder connections to be 100% sure they are correct?


The motor encoders work just fine. I had these motors running with a different inverter a couple years ago.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Hi Pete how have you been doing....


----------



## wstein25 (12 mo ago)

onegreenev said:


> The motor encoders work just fine. I had these motors running with a different inverter a couple years ago.


OK, I just thought you might want to check the wiring between the encoders and the controller.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> Hi Pete how have you been doing....


Ive been doing fine. Im just trying to get the damn throttle to move the motor. With the old controller with Curtis Software only I can get the motor to turn in the motor testing section. I can get it to go forward and backwards and I can change the rpm. It worked fine at 1000 rpm but would not get the motor spinning at 500rpm. Worked fine at 1500rpm. But still no stand alone throttle. I know the throttles work because they were recently used in the DC setup. I have a 3 wire pot and three 2 wire pots that all work and tested. The software shows the voltage rise as I throttle the pot but can't get the motor to turn. Im taking a break from this. 

I did fry the hand held programmer but I still have the computer programmer. When I fried the hand held it damaged the other controller. That controller still turns on but I can't communicate with it any longer. So that will go out to someone who can fix it for me. The Hand Held looks to have three components on the board dead. Yes, it smoked and one of the components literally popped. It was loud. I opened up the programmer and it was visible as were three other components. Not that those are the only ones fried. Yes, I know why it happened and it was an accident. Expensive one at that Im sure. But I do have three other controllers. Since I want to figure out the throttle issue and what Im missing I won't use the newest controllers until I know Im doing this correctly. I can't image why its not just a plug and it works thing but I do understand that some parameters may need tweaked for a specific situation. But the basics to get the motor spinning should not be any issue at all. But it is. I had better luck with the open inverter project than I am having with this OEM Curtis Controller. Im in no hurry to get this done and I purchased awhile back a 2014 Fiat 500 E so Im good with my electric car fix. Will be retiring within a year or so. Glad to do so.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

What power source are you using for testing ?

I've taken a look at the exported settings, nothing stood out right away. One thing I'd propose is to test it with VCL Throttle set to Off, just to rule out any misconfiguration on the VCL side. Also give it full throttle and leave it at that at least for 20-30 seconds if you haven't already, to rule out any "ramp up" logic being at play.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> What power source are you using for testing ?
> 
> I've taken a look at the exported settings, nothing stood out right away. One thing I'd propose is to test it with VCL Throttle set to Off, just to rule out any misconfiguration on the VCL side. Also give it full throttle and leave it at that at least for 20-30 seconds if you haven't already, to rule out any "ramp up" logic being at play.


I’m using a 12v 8.5amp power source for the low voltage side and all that does is switch the solenoid ksi switch for the contactor switch. For the high voltage side I’m using a 96v volt Nissan Leaf Module battery pack. So my older controller did work in motor testing mode and it did not instantly start. It did take a sec or two before ramping up in test mode. So your thought about throttle ramp could be the key as I only throttled up and down quickly and did not hold because with my other DC setups spin the motor right away. I’ll give that another look and give the throttle some time to respond.
Thanks for taking a look.
Pete


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

At this point I am using my older Curtis 1238 96v 550 amp controller. With VCL off I can get the motor to move but like it did the other day with wonky cables flying around and slowly moving. I got it back to that point and then decided to test the motor both forward and backward. I connected my clamp meter to a cable and did the test. When I did the test it pulled the motor up to the desired rpm but seemed to struggle getting past the slow ramp up to speed. Once it was going at the set speed of 1500 rpm I noted the amperage being pulled. 400 plus amps. Yeowzer. The cables got super hot as did the controller so I shut down for now to cool off. When I do have the throttle working it does not have much forward RPM but the cables do bounce around and the cables do get hot like loads of current flowing. The amperage is about 40 amps but they still get the cables hot. I'll get a read out of the parameters. 

I will have a few questions later. 

Pete 

PS. I have a text out to HPEVS to see if they can fix my communication board in the other Controller. It does turn on with no faults. Just no communication to the controller. 

PSS. When I switch on VCL I get no throttle response but I can test. 

I am using a 3 Wire Pot and I did change the dead-band so the throttle does not creep when not in VCL mode. But can't get it to throttle up fast. Unless Testing.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

I am starting to think this could be a characterization issue. You can reach out to Brian at HPEVS, and ask him for the firmware specific to your current motor, that should rule out any motor misconfiguration. Since you got the PC programming station, you will be able to flash the OS without issues.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> I am starting to think this could be a characterization issue. You can reach out to Brian at HPEVS, and ask him for the firmware specific to your current motor, that should rule out any motor misconfiguration. Since you got the PC programming station, you will be able to flash the OS without issues.


So you don't get confused. The Controller that is the 1238 96v 6650 amp controller is the one with HPEVS software and it was formatted for the AC-35 which is now what I have on the bench and is no longer being used because I lost communications to the controller. 
I have replaced the controller with my slightly older 1238 96v 550 amp controller but that one does not have the HPEVS software installed. It is just the stock Curtis Software. I thought there was function that would allow you to do an auto characterization but can't seem to locate it and nothing for sure saying to auto configure. Unless Im blind I just don't see it. I do have the Curtis manual but that is not helping either. I know the Curtis Controller can be configured for any Induction Motor and thought the auto configuration was built into the controller at least to get a base start for a particular motor. 

So until I get the communication function fixed on the newer controller I'll be using the Curtis Software Only Controller. I have one other older Curtis Controller that is pretty much the same 96 volts and 550 amps. I may connect that one up as well and connect it up to a cooling pump because it is connected to a water cooled heat sink. It too was used on a non HPEVS Induction Motor. I should still be able to get the motors to spin. I know that the motors are configured in the software as far as the encoder is concerned correctly for the motors. 

I was never able to get the newer controller to move the AC-35 motor even a tickle. Not even in the testing throttle mode. So I will continue to post here as I figure it out. Looks like I need to go one step at a time but I can't really auto configure much of anything if the motor won't spin. Right? Manual configuration should be enough to get any motor to at least spin. Fine tuning comes later. At least for the price one pays. It should be plug n play for the very bare bones basics. 

PS. I will be going back to the open inverter soon. I finished up my drivers so now I can put it all back on the other bench for testing. That one spun up the AC-35, AC-50 and a Raymond Forklift Induction Motor just fine with the bare bones basics for tuning out of the gate and it Is the open inverter. Can't get better than that and I have similar functions I can tune and functions I can add into the whole setup.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Okay... so one option is you could still load HPEVS OS into that older controller. Otherwise the Auto Characterization should be as follows :

Motor » Control Algorithms » 1-SPM » Characterization Tests » Test Enable

but there are a couple of prep steps for that, check the manual before you kick it off.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> Okay... so one option is you could still load HPEVS OS into that older controller. Otherwise the Auto Characterization should be as follows :
> 
> Motor » Control Algorithms » 1-SPM » Characterization Tests » Test Enable
> 
> but there are a couple of prep steps for that, check the manual before you kick it off.


I took another look at the characterization and saw in one section a dialog about the encoder. One that was selected was Encoder Reversed. I turned that off and lo and behold it runs and runs smoothly and jumps to speed without issue. Exactly what I was looking for. A basic setup that runs. I'll catch a screen picture and also send the parameter file. This is the Curtis File. Not HPEVS. Im stoked. Once I get the other controller fixed I'll look to see if the same parameter is set the same. An odd thing but it worked. I'll get a video too.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I have video processing now. The link below is for two files of the older Curtis Controller 1238 96v 550amp controller that now works. 






Curtis 1238 Parameter XLS file - Google Drive







drive.google.com


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Video has been posted.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

You can lower your Map value (Mapped Throttle or Forward/Reverse Map, depending on HPEVS or OEM Curtis) to something like 20 or 30%, then the throttle will be less "touchy" in the lower band.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> You can lower your Map value (Mapped Throttle or Forward/Reverse Map, depending on HPEVS or OEM Curtis) to something like 20 or 30%, then the throttle will be less "touchy" in the lower band.


Thank you. I'll get to that after I get home from work tomorrow and post the results.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Another interesting thing. I do actually have another Curtis 1238 96v 650amp controller. This one was also used in a situation with a different induction motor. I put the same parameters from the other controller into this one. I made sure I matched everything exactly. One section at a time. The software is newer than the 550 amp controller but otherwise it was pretty much a cut and dry situation or so I thought. With the other controller I have no faults. With this one I have a Pot2 Wiper High Error. Problem is I don't have a Pot2 connected. My throttle is set to 3 like the other one. I can still run the motor but it has a strange quirk. Well, kinda dangerous but still a quirk. I checked everything carefully to match. I can throttle up and slowly release the throttle without issue but if I throttle up pretty good then let off the throttle quickly the motor starts to harshly reverse direction then forward then reverse again and again quickly and with lots of power being fed into the motor and it was so strong that it broke free from its restraints to help keep it on the bench and blasted itself off the bench before I could shut it down. So something weird is for sure different but the Pot2WiperHigh error may be the cause of the issue. I have carefully checked the wires to be sure nothing is connected that should not be connected. I guess I need to reduce the amperage in all the functions to see if I can figure what parameter is at fault. No motor damage or floor damage. It had a couple things it hit on the way down so it wasn't just a flat out fly onto the floor. When the motor is rocking back and forth with high current it is impossible to contain it so shut down is the only option. So off to the books I go again. 

Pete 

I can get the file and post that one as well. Thankfully I did not spend much on either controller. I may have found someone to fix my other controller.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

What I found interesting after searching for the Pot2 Wiper wire which is wire number 17 according to all the manuals. Odd thing is I don't even have a wire in slot 17 on the harness. So there is nothing that can interact with that pin unless there is an internal short across the pin. The controller has never been opened. And to top it off I have the brake pot shut off anyway in the software. Might need to re-flash the software. Anyone know how to go about that? I do know that the software must be for that particular serial number series controllers. So a 1238 won't load up on a 1238R or 1238E or 1238SE. So this one is just a plain old 1238 7102 and not the 1238R 7102.


----------



## wstein25 (12 mo ago)

Hey - glad you figured it out. I may be leaning on you in a couple of months to get mine going. Thx


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

*Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:*

Pete onegreenev ([email protected])
Your message wasn't delivered because the recipient's email provider rejected it.

Pete tried to send you all the programs from curtis Ben he is the one I used to deal with, he is the one that wrote the software. for curtis controllers.... it was a zip file... gonna try to rename the zip file to just a .z ..... so if you get it rename to .zip ..... make sense? fucked up gmail....


Tried sending my gmail account to yours won't go I attribute this BS to the tiny-bopers that run these systems now a days any ideas Pete?

Curtis_software.zip
(17,511K)
Blocked for security reasons!

They have a attach file here gonna try a rename file to a JPG NOPE
message from DIY: The uploaded file was not an image as expected.

One last trick Pete, gonna move, upload file to my server, will send you the link, it should download.... that is still your email, correct?

That works Pete emailed you the link halafuckingluya


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> *Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:*
> 
> Pete onegreenev ([email protected])
> Your message wasn't delivered because the recipient's email provider rejected it.
> ...


Got it. Thank you so much.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> Got it. Thank you so much.


 Got a bunch more Pete from Ben, got to look through it... now that I know how to get it to ya.... to tell ya the truth, I forgot...


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> Got a bunch more Pete from Ben, got to look through it... now that I know how to get it to ya.... to tell ya the truth, I forgot...


Send away please. Never forget, just might take a bit to dredge up that old information.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

do you guys have access to the VCL compiler ?


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

cricketo said:


> do you guys have access to the VCL compiler ?


I don’t but it would be nice.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I’m not a programmer but it would be a nice challenge to learn how to implement and install a usable program.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Curtis does not use a vcl compiler as we all know the settings can be changed in the program.... fact

HPEV uses a compiler, because they right there own vcl, repeat: there own vcl, to do multiable controllers at
a time and that will cover THERE motors.... when HPEV gets controllers from curtis they have the basic motor
controlling parameters all ready in them, one can not run outside of what the controller can do.. make sense

HPEV spent a lot of time and money to learn VCL and you or anybody ain't gonna get it from them....

so why do you think you would need a compiler


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Ivansgarage said:


> so why do you think you would need a compiler


I don't need it, but I can make use of it.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

cricketo said:


> I don't need it, but I can make use of it.


Like usual you don't have a clue, are you gonna have ten diff. motors that will run on the same controller with out doing a optimization.... no do you understand this at all? HPEV sells diff. motors, right... with the same controller....


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Ivansgarage said:


> Like usual you don't have a clue, are you gonna have ten diff. motors that will run on the same controller with out doing a optimization.... no do you understand this at all? HPEV sells diff. motors, right... with the same controller....


Whoa!


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I’d like to learn VCL basics to sorta get an understanding of how it works. But that would be a serious back burner project of all the things I’m currently doing.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

I have all the coding that I used on Miz's controller, remember Miz give me a couple days and I will packed it up... and send it the same way, will send ya email....


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I remember.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

No hurry


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Got the folders you sent. 
Thanks a bunch. 

Reading the one file you have in there to make a programming extension says the Curtis program only registers com2. However when I have it connected to my windows 7 computer it is registered to com12. It seems like there are a few things greyed out that I can not do anything with but I have the OEM computer programer. I'll change the com port so it recognizes that USB so it will be set to com2. 

A learning curve but a fun challenge. A nice unexpected treat. 


Thanks again. 

Pete


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Pete are you trying to program your controller with HPEV software already on controller... You can't do that, you can run a motor with it, but it will not save the new setting... you need to blank-controller, remove HPEV software and start fresh with just the curtis VCL.... then you can change everything... send me a email with your address, gonna send you a thumb drive with everything I have for curtis controllers, programming ....


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> Pete are you trying to program your controller with HPEV software already on controller... You can't do that, you can run a motor with it, but it will not save the new setting... you need to blank-controller, remove HPEV software and start fresh with just the curtis VCL.... then you can change everything... send me a email with your address, gonna send you a thumb drive with everything I have for curtis controllers, programming ....


The 96v 550 amp controller does not have HPEVS software installed. The controller I lost communication with does. No one yet has gotten back with me about fixing that controller for me. HPEVS does not do controller repair. 

I have another 96v 650amp controller that does not have HPEVS software. It has the water cooler that is stamped Ivan's Garage. 

I was not able to get my AC-50 to run with that controller. I can get it to move but not smoothly like I got the AC-35 with the controller I lost communication with. 

Im waiting on my package to work on the controller issue and get two controllers setup without the HPEVS software and to get the software back to factory stock.

Pete


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> The 96v 550 amp controller does not have HPEVS software installed. The controller I lost communication with does. No one yet has gotten back with me about fixing that controller for me. HPEVS does not do controller repair.
> 
> I have another 96v 650amp controller that does not have HPEVS software. It has the water cooler that is stamped Ivan's Garage.
> 
> ...


Pete did you get my email I sent you about software....


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Something that has been bugging me:

Sorry Pete goto say that picture looks scary, wouldn't wanna meet you in a dark alley...


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> Something that has been bugging me:
> 
> Sorry Pete goto say that picture looks scary, wouldn't wanna meet you in a dark alley...
> View attachment 129558


Looks way worse when shrunk to a tiny avatar. Its not that bad full size. I was practicing self portraits in my studio. Not an easy thing to do. 

Yes I got the email.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> Looks way worse when shrunk to a tiny avatar. Its not that bad full size. I was practicing self portraits in my studio. Not an easy thing to do.
> 
> Yes I got the email.


Just sent you a email cpf files these are setting I used on miz motor and my motor


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Package arrived


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> Package arrived


cool Pete ... on the cpf file just hit the enter key and they should open up....


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Memories Miz driving his car..


Ivan's Garage Sonoma Electric Vehicle


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looked through what you sent. That is some good information that will help for sure. Way more detailed than what I was able to dig up. 

Thank you again. 

Pete


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I went through the process to optimize the controller to the motor. I kept getting an encoder error. This is from my AC-50 motor. It has the external encoder but there was no external damage. Never dropped or anything. It was on a small wheeled cart and never in danger of damage. But under the cover of the encoder I found this. Now I need to find a replacement encoder. The person who had it before must have done something to this motor. It was going into a Alfa Romeo but was never completely installed. I assumed the motor was brand new and it looked new. I can see why I was getting an error. Just my luck to find one with a toasted encoder from the outset. There is a super small Allen set screw on the ring with all the holes and I don't know the size. It is super small. I don't really want to send this off to HPEVS and have them install an internal encoder. Might be best but for now I just want this one fixed. Ever see anything like this before?


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

E6 Optical Kit Encoder of coarse these encoders come in diff, shaft sizes.... and has to match the wheel count, ie holes in wheel...

I remember I would turn shaft down to fit encoder.... search Mizs thread...
Note:
The mating connectors are available from US Digital with several cable options and lengths.
I might have one of these laying around, I will look today.... used to buy a couple at a time...


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Got the encoder off the motor and sent a request to US Digital to see if they have any of this model encoder left in stock.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> Got the encoder off the motor and sent a request to US Digital to see if they have any of this model encoder left in stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Cool Pete I bet hpev has them to for the ac-50 check price, I think I bought my first one from them cause they would not tell me where to get them .... shhhh... don't tell anybody... lol


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Lol. I was going to ask them next.


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

I have had success rolling those discs flat again, you may need to solder the cracked part a bit. Remove the steel disc from the aluminum mount ring and try smoothing it with the round shaft of a screwdriver against a flat surface. If the eye no longer works I have some new ones and could sell one.

Motor probably took a blow to the shaft, or someone tried to take it apart without taking off the encoder. Or the thrust washers inside are in the wrong spots.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

I can't imagine the encoder would be any good after that disk running through it, ya think?


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

Likely not, but worth a shot.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Not going to bother. If a new one is available, a new one will be installed. Wouldn’t trust a hack on this part.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I found that the part is specific to HPEVS specs for their motors and that was direct from US Digital. So the only place to get them is from HPEVS for their motors. I have sent another request to HPEVS.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

If anyone has one or more let me know. I'll buy them.


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

Does this work?
Got the optical eyes too as I said earlier.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looks like it would be the right size. Here is what I measured with my tools.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Don't forget hole count. I can see one more or one less hole making this insane problem.


----------



## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

piotrsko said:


> Don't forget hole count. I can see one more or one less hole making this insane problem.


The first problem is the warped disk, beating the shit out of the encoder, and you are worried about hole count... thats funny...


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

It's 64 steps, like all the HPEVS optical I have seen.
Pete, reassemble that one and check for motor thrust play before installing a new one.
There are spring thrust washers in one or both ends of the motor inside. If this is used with a clutch make sure they are in the output end or this may happen again.

PM me and maybe we can work out a package deal.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

DMPstar said:


> It's 64 steps, like all the HPEVS optical I have seen.
> Pete, reassemble that one and check for motor thrust play before installing a new one.
> There are spring thrust washers in one or both ends of the motor inside. If this is used with a clutch make sure they are in the output end or this may happen again.
> 
> PM me and maybe we can work out a package deal.


I would have no clue how to test for thrust springs. The motor is an AC-50 and was sold to be put into a vehicle so I would assume the HPEVS would have the spring thrust washers in the correct places so this is not an issue. So if you are meaning can I push and pull on the shaft and have it move laterally and if so how much play is there so as to not have this issue happen again, I don't know I would assume it is already to go. 

What do you want for your encoder? You can private message me and we can come to an agreement. I know what HPEVS wants. They sent me an email just a short time ago. 

Thanks for the help
Pete


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Ivansgarage said:


> The first problem is the warped disk, beating the shit out of the encoder, and you are worried about hole count... thats funny...
> 
> View attachment 129716


It is out and hole count affects timing relative to the shaft. How long would it take to count the holes to prevent a massive head scratch when it won't properly function? Fortunately we find they are standard. I would still count them, btdtmo

Beating the shit out of the sensor means you now have to replace it, duh.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So the count of the disc is 64. I checked for lateral runout and found none. The shaft is solidly in place and no lateral movement. So I put it all back together and made sure the disc was centered within the sensor and no part of the disc was touching any part of the sensor. Connected it all back up and did my motor test again. Still the motor ran up to the set rpm then shut off with an encoder error and motor calibration error like I was getting before. So with that I will pretty much say the encoder sensor is toast. The motor spins smoothly in the test until it shuts the test off but just using the throttle to spin the motor it does its weird thing like it did before with the other controller. I even reversed the encoder but that made no change here. Best case is the encoder sensor is toast. So until I get the parts I need this part of the project is at a stand still.


----------



## DMPstar (Mar 2, 2016)

piotrsko said:


> It is out and hole count affects timing relative to the shaft. How long would it take to count the holes to prevent a massive head scratch when it won't properly function? Fortunately we find they are standard. I would still count them, btdtmo
> 
> Beating the shit out of the sensor means you now have to replace it, duh.


The Curtiss has a setting for encoder steps in the firmware I have worked with, not sure though at the moment if its user access level parameter.



onegreenev said:


> So the count of the disc is 64. I checked for lateral runout and found none. The shaft is solidly in place and no lateral movement. So I put it all back together and made sure the disc was centered within the sensor and no part of the disc was touching any part of the sensor. Connected it all back up and did my motor test again. Still the motor ran up to the set rpm then shut off with an encoder error and motor calibration error like I was getting before. So with that I will pretty much say the encoder sensor is toast. The motor spins smoothly in the test until it shuts the test off but just using the throttle to spin the motor it does its weird thing like it did before with the other controller. I even reversed the encoder but that made no change here. Best case is the encoder sensor is toast. So until I get the parts I need this part of the project is at a stand still.


If you mean Auto Characterization by "motor test" then I would presume it may ignore encoder faults for portions of that sequence. 
Have you monitored motor speed on your pc when trying to spin by hand? See if it picks up anything.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

DMPstar said:


> The Curtiss has a setting for encoder steps in the firmware I have worked with, not sure though at the moment if its user access level parameter.
> 
> 
> If you mean Auto Characterization by "motor test" then I would presume it may ignore encoder faults for portions of that sequence.
> Have you monitored motor speed on your pc when trying to spin by hand? See if it picks up anything.


I have an OEM level computer programmer. As for trying to pick up any rpm by turning by hand the answer is no. I can go do that and report back. The program is set to 64 steps.


----------

