# Good motorcycle conversion candidates



## sharp21 (Mar 11, 2008)

Well I havent built one yet, but from the research I have done I would say that twin downtubes up front is important, for mounting the batteries.
I think any of the older streetbikes will work fine. Ive got a soft spot for the gixxer 750 so thats what I am looking for.
Any of the older standards should have plenty of room. CB750, Eddie Lawson Z1000 
I think the trick is to go to your local wreckers & find a decent roller cheap.
S.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

I have a good lead on a 90 Ninja ZX10 (1000 cc) that is a rolling chassis with a title. The top end of the engine is gone as well as most of the plastics. In the Evalbum it appears there are more Ninjas than about any other type converted. I imagine it is because lots of battery room and the fairing covers them and also has a chain drive. I think the original engines/trans weigh around 250 lbs. Not sure if that would be enough lead to give decent performance or range.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

The reason there are so many ninjas is because there is a book called secrets of the el ninja that goes through how to convert a ninja to an EV. What Ah batteries are you planning on using? Make sure you use a high voltage (72V+) if you want decent performance. It will cost more but you will get good acceleration and top speed. Your donor sounds really nice, there would be a ton of room on a 1000cc bike for batteries. Just make up mock-ups of the batteries you want in cardboard to make sure they will fit. Remember the centre of gravity can be made quite low on the bike and if you aren't going to carry a passenger I would say that you can get away with going over the weight of the original drive-train.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Here is a pic of the Ninja roller I am supposed to pick up tomorrow. I sold my Holset turbo to get this but I think it will be worth it. It comes with the front forks, wheel, and tank though they are not shown. Can't wait to get started on the conversion. Norm


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## sharp21 (Mar 11, 2008)

Thats great! Cant wait to see the progress
S.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Well I got the Ninja home and it is more complete than I thought. May be able to recoup some of the expense with extra parts. It even came with a front fairing but needs work. It's amazing that a 1000 cc motorcycle is only 210 lbs without the engine. I guess that will change when I start adding batteries but the gvwr is 957 lbs. 

My pics were too big to upload so here is a link to a few pics:
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/n_grimm/Ninja%20pics/


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

great find...

I got my 1986 VFR700 for $400, shipped it to Oregon for another 600, parted out the engine/carbs/exhaust/electrical and JUST about broke even 

so, a rolling chassis for free... I'm sure you can do the same.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

*My Ninja project*

I have made a little progress on my Ninja conversion. I have the forklift motor mounted and tested it with one 12v battery and the wheel actually spins. I have started the battery frame. I will be using eight 12v 85 ah deep cycle batteries arranged with three batteries on the bottom, three more above them and two more on the top. It will be heavy but as I mentioned earlier the Ninja's gvw is 950lbs. I wonder if Lead Zeppelin is taken. 

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/n_grimm/Ninja pics/DoserPics007.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m254/n_grimm/Ninja pics/DoserPics006.jpg


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: My Ninja project*

Wow that's a huge amount of batteries? Have you made cardboard moch ups or anything to see if they will all fit?


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

I am planning six of the 85 ah lead acid. Decided that any more than that would raise the center of gravity too much.


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

ngrimm said:


> I think a shaft drive is out since gearing is fixed.
> Norm


Hi,

I don't think a shaft drive is a disadvantage. Check here:
http://reverendgadget.com/subpage1.html


> Here is the beginning of Gadget's electric bike. It is the transmission from a BMW K75 mated to an Advanced DC electric motor.


Mitch


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## hypnotoad (May 7, 2008)

Your Ninja looks like it needs some serious cleaning. You have dirt and grease everywhere.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

That's just ballast in case it is too fast. Also rust protection. I am accepting volunteers for cleaning if you find yourself in Oregon.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm trying to decide on a Kelly controller now. I am going with six 85ah lead acid 12 volt batteries. I don't know the specs on the motor other than it is 7.5" diameter by 10.5" long with 8 brushes and weighs 65lbs. All I have to go on is that I also have a 7.5" by 12.5" motor that is rated at 353 amps so I am guessing the one on the Ninja will handle 250-300 amps. Does that sound reasonable? . I was thinking about the kd72300 or kd84300 in case I decide to squeeze one more battery in. 
Here are the choices:
* Series Motor Controller or Permanent Magnet Motor Controller

* * Model*​ *Rated Voltage* *Voltage Range* *1 Minute Current* *Continuous
Current* * Prices*​ *Online Order *​ KD24200 24V 8V-30V  200A 120A $169 Order KD24300 24V 8V-30V 300A 160A $199 Order KD24400 24V 8V-30V 400A 200A $239 Order KD36200 36V 18V-42V 200A 120A $169 Order KD36300 36V 18V-42V 300A 160A $199 Order KD36400 36V 18V-42V 400A 200A $229 Order KD48200 48V 18V-56V 200A 120A $199 Order KD48300 48V 18V-56V 300A 160A $239 Order KD48400 48V 18V-56V 400A 200A $279 Order KD48500 48V 18V-56V 500A 250A $349 Order KD48600 48V 18V-56V 600A 300A $429 Order KD72200 72V 18V-84V 200A 120A $279 Order KD72300 72V 18V-84V 300A 160A $329 Order KD72400 72V 18V-84V 400A 200A $389 Order KD72500 72V 18V-84V 500A 250A $459 Order KD72600 72V 18V-84V 600A 300A $529 Order KD84200 84V 18V-92V 200A 120A $319 Order KD84300 84V 18V-92V 300A 160A $369 Order KD84400 84V 18V-92V 400A 200A $439 Order KD84500 84V 18V-92V 500A 250A $519 Order KD84600 84V 18V-92V 600A 300A $599 Order Kelly RS-232 Converter and Cable $18 Order • Please Use RS232 Converter from Kelly Controls for communication.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

well, full charge is 82.8V (~13.8V per battery), so I'd go with the larger of the two (voltage wise). If you decide another battery for 84V, you'll actually be 96.6V full charge, and over the rated voltage of both controllers.

I'd stick with 6 bats, and get the highest Ah rating you can. Lead weight=distance in most cases.

So you're in Medford? I'm in Portland converting my VFR... if you're ever up here, come swing by. I'm working for Synkromotive on their 156V 600A controller.... and chargers.... and balancing...... and some other fun stuff.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks for pointing that out. But isn't that why they list the 72 volt unit for 18-84 volts? I see that the 84 volt is listed for 18-92 so it would come up a little short. Yeah I'll have to look you up when I'm in Portland.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

yeah, be careful about those voltages.... don't wanna fry anything.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't know what your motor is but I'm running a 7.5 x 11 inch 63lb Yale forklift motor at 48 volts from Jim Husted of hitorqueelectric.com and he suggested a 400 amp controller, (I'm using the Alltrax 4845). I think he said he's run these up to 120 volts too. You might want to contact him with some good pics of the motor and he might be able to give you more info.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

he's got a couple 6.7" 10.75" long 48V motors right now, matched pair:
http://hitorqueelectric.com/gallery/v/MOTORS+FOR+SALE/rebuilt+modified/

I think they were around $400 or something.

you can overvoltage them to some degree.... going 2 times the voltage is fine if its advanced some. if you run it at 72V you should be just fine.

My K91-4003 (actually K99-4007) Advanced DC motor is a 48V motor that has curves from the manufacturer at 48, 72, 96V


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Lexus said:


> OK Question .. how do you set up your Brake System on the Bikes ???
> 
> Front and Rear ??


just leave it stock... no reason to change it... Its all hydraulic, so you just leave it alone.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Thank you for your replies. One more question. Do you think that six 85 ah lead acid batteries could deliver more than 300 amps thus justifying a 400 amp controller? Norm


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Yes... Definately. Most batteries that large have CCA (cold cranking amps) ratings. It will deliver that current for <20 seconds, but it will deliver it if needed.

Go for the largest you can afford. Its not going to hurt anything, the controller SHOULD limit the battery side current as well as motor side.

400A on a motorcycle though seems plenty. How big are those 85Ah bats? Whats the weight? Just make sure you're not going to have a 2 wheeled bike that acts like a 3 wheeler (three contact points to the ground.... haha). Seems kinda heavy to me.

What range/speed are you looking to get out of this thing? And how much room do you really have? Where did you come up with the 85Ah battery requirement?


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

I am basing my battery size loosely on this conversion on the Evalbum
http://www.evalbum.com/1414
He claims the performance is decent with gearing set to 50 mph.

He is using six 85 ah lead acid, 300 amp alltrax controller and a permanent mag motor versus my series wound but hopefully my range will be similar to his of 30+ miles. The batteries weigh around 50 lbs each. I chose the battery size based on dimensions of which would fit without hacking the frame. Of course like everyone else I just know I'll have lots of money to buy better/lighter batteries in the future.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

*Took my first EV Ninja ride!*

I had some trouble getting either of my used Curtis controllers to work so I decided to take a few rides just using a contactor and three 12 volt deep cycle batteries in parallel. It was a little sluggish at 12 volts so then I connected them in series for 36 volts. All I can say wow! Even with a rolling start the front end tries to lift up. Then some family and friends showed up and had to try it. Even my son in law who is 6'6' and 300lbs was impressed. Several of the neighbors have been monitoring progress so they dropped by too. I know it's not good on the batteries etc. to run it like that but was just a test and I didn't go under 50% dod.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

I tried the contactor only route for a little while myself - 4 6v GC batts in series for 24v. Took off like a scared rabbit, but cables got VERY warm. I thew an ammeter on it - 650amps. Yikes. Now I have a 275amp controller with 36v of marine deep cycle; everything stays much cooler and except for the first 10 feet or so the acceleration is quite good.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

*Does 100 amps seem right for amperage?*

I've been running my 36v 400a Curtis with all current limits disabled. I had to bypass much of the circuitry in order to get it to work so basically I have my throttle pot connected to the final comparator before the mosfet drivers and The controller case is fastened to a one inch think aluminum plate to help keep it cool. This is just temporary before enabling my own current limiting scheme. I thought I'd check the amp draw with a cheap clamp meter and so far I haven't been able to get it to pull over 100 amps power braking it etc. The accelleration seems pretty good although I am only running three 12v 85ah deep cycle batteries. I was really worried that I might be over driving it. Does 100 amps sound right? Thanks guys. Norm


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Does 100 amps seem right for amperage?*



ngrimm said:


> I've been running my 36v 400a Curtis with all current limits disabled. I had to bypass much of the circuitry in order to get it to work so basically I have my throttle pot connected to the final comparator before the mosfet drivers and The controller case is fastened to a one inch think aluminum plate to help keep it cool. This is just temporary before enabling my own current limiting scheme. I thought I'd check the amp draw with a cheap clamp meter and so far I haven't been able to get it to pull over 100 amps power braking it etc. The accelleration seems pretty good although I am only running three 12v 85ah deep cycle batteries. I was really worried that I might be over driving it. Does 100 amps sound right? Thanks guys. Norm


The AC clamp meters will not read correctly. They will only read ripple from the pwm signal. Why did you bypass the current limiting? If your that far into the Curtis drive board, why didn't you just change the ref. voltage for the current comparator? Check out my thread about the 3524 pwm. I plan on building my own drive board based on the 3524 for a modded (200v) Curtis 1205 until I get my own controller finished. That chip has a current sense input. Your asking for it not having that on yours. Mosfets like to blow shorted. Hope your manual disconnect is working or your faded brakes are stronger then your motor. =)


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. Actually this one reads ac or dc up to 1000 amps. Here's the one I bought: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250268714572&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=015
Incidently, I should have bid on this Triplet meter but I was in a hurry and no one else bid on it either. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150267607097&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

I was just now able to take it out on the open road a little and it read 125 amps briefly when I was accellerating hard. It certainly runs a lot cooler now that it's not 100 degrees out.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

I still question it's ability to read both at once, or neither of either?  I assume it measures DC by applying a freq to it's pickup coil and the magnetic field in the clamp will determine the current based on the amount of disruption of the coil's natural inductive characteristics. AC measurement is simple measuring the voltage induced into the coil and converts that to a current measurement. The battery leads and/or motor leads have both AC and DC present. The frequency of the pwm can even come in and out of phase with the instruments measuring frequency creating more problems.
Take a measurement at different places. Try at the battery, then at the motor. Is it different?

Grab one of those digital meters with a shunt off ebay. Their cheap.


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## Phyber Optik (Jun 4, 2008)

ngrimm said:


> Here is a pic of the Ninja roller I am supposed to pick up tomorrow. I sold my Holset turbo to get this but I think it will be worth it. It comes with the front forks, wheel, and tank though they are not shown. Can't wait to get started on the conversion. Norm


That 1000cc will give some nice room for batts I'd think.

However, please keep in mind that your Ninja - as with many sport bikes - incorporates the engine as a stressed member of the frame to some degree or another.

Without the stressed member, this could place the frame under significant stresses.

In addition, when you add batteries, typically the curb weight will be higher than the original ICE.

Just something to keep an eye on at least - especially the welds around the steering head. A cracked weld there could be deadly.

Perhaps you could incorporate into your battery boxes a meaty brace between the original engine mounting points from the foot peg area to the upper frame.

Good luck on your project.


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