# Toro tractor buildup



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Sounds good.

That's a PM motor isn't it? I think that means it won't run away and overspeed, like a series motor would, if the belt broke. That is a good start.

I went for chain drive on mine in case of that.

Don't know much about that controller but best to use one rather then not. Also if you can get a higher voltage then the current will be lower and you won't need such massive cables. Efficiency will also be better but with such short range it may not matter as much.
It will come down more to budget and space for the batteries I think.

Major has a good tractor conversion, similar to yours.
Jimdear2 is more into competition pulling and mine is just whacky!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

!George said:


> I'm starting with a Toro lawn tractor.


Hi !,

Since Woodsmith and his buddy admins won't start a sub forum for us, you can find a number of links to eTractor threads here. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/express-your-interest-non-road-going-54835.html



I'm sure there are other threads spread out on this board. 

Good luck,

major


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> That's a PM motor isn't it? I think that means it won't run away and overspeed, like a series motor would, if the belt broke. That is a good start.
> 
> ...


It is a permanent magnet motor.

I could look at doing a chain drive, but wouldn't that make more noise than a belt drive? I suppose I figured the belt would also act as a weak link in the chain in that it would slip before toasting the rear end. I'm not looking to set world records, just make it move with electricity instead of ga$oline.

Am I to understand that with a controller I could feed it more than 72 volts and have it only feed what I want to the motor? I'm going to get the motor, controller, and then see where I can fit batteries. I'm going to be building a bed on the back of this, so perhaps I can fit it in there.

I'll take a look at those builds. Thank you! 



major said:


> Hi !,
> 
> Since Woodsmith and his buddy admins won't start a sub forum for us, you can find a number of links to eTractor threads here. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/express-your-interest-non-road-going-54835.html
> 
> ...


So, this link leads to a thread that leads to a bunch of _other_ threads. Sounds like sub-forum material to me.  Thanks for that, major.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

major said:


> Hi !,
> 
> Since Woodsmith and his buddy admins won't start a sub forum for us...


I have asked, and asked, and asked....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

!George said:


> It is a permanent magnet motor.
> 
> I could look at doing a chain drive, but wouldn't that make more noise than a belt drive? I suppose I figured the belt would also act as a weak link in the chain in that it would slip before toasting the rear end.
> 
> Am I to understand that with a controller I could feed it more than 72 volts and have it only feed what I want to the motor? I'm going to get the motor, controller, and then see where I can fit batteries.


I think a belt would be fine in your case with a PM motor. My chain is very noisy, more noise then the rest of the tractor put together.

The controller will make it much easier to control then without, regardless of voltage. I can creep mine very very slowly up a ramp under control. I couldn't do that without a controller. You probably wouldn't need to go up to 72V, I only run at 48V on a 24V motor, but it does give you options.

As you say, start with 24V and see it move and then maybe get another couple of batteries.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I have asked, and asked, and asked....


And I thank you  Maybe you could ask again 

!George,

My eTractor uses a belt. Vertical motor up front, belt to large original pulley atop the rear axle. Hasn't slipped once or broken in like 20 years. When I fool the controller with the keyswitch, she'll pop a wheelie. Just a common 1/2 V-belt. I don't use her every day, but still, belts can do the duty.

And yes, use a controller. Just from the reported trouble with Kelly controllers, I'd go with Alltrax or Curtis. I like to use 48 volts for my E yard machines. Parts are common and it's very safe voltage. Long time ago, but when I first converted my eTractor, I used 4 cheap batteries just to get going and work out the bugs and see what I might really need. Also had about 3 or 4 small pulleys and different belts to get the drive ratio best suited. Now I just use 2nd and reverse on the 3 speed axle. Bought some good lead acid batteries after the first year which lasted 10 years. Now I have a Lithium 

Attached is my E yard fleet, well, part of it


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

major said:


> And I thank you  Maybe you could ask again
> 
> !George,
> 
> ...


Hey Major, I like that little yellow tug! What make is that? I've seen plenty of the Cushman and Taylor-Dun carts, but that is different. Does the tractor part have a 3rd wheel that I can't see, or is the trailer part of an articulated support?


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I think a belt would be fine in your case with a PM motor. My chain is very noisy, more noise then the rest of the tractor put together.
> 
> The controller will make it much easier to control then without, regardless of voltage. I can creep mine very very slowly up a ramp under control. I couldn't do that without a controller. You probably wouldn't need to go up to 72V, I only run at 48V on a 24V motor, but it does give you options.
> 
> As you say, start with 24V and see it move and then maybe get another couple of batteries.


I figured it would be noisier with the chain, and I'm not 100% sure how you can remedy that without ditching the chain in lieu of another form of power transfer.

I like the idea of having more energy on tap to increase the range. From what I'm reading, voltage = top speed while amperage = range. This is not going to be a top speed endeavor (clearly), simply something to try my hand at the tech. I have a pair of Suzuki 3 wheeled ATV's, and if this project goes well I could see myself doing those next. Except for those, I'm going to want some more speed than range.

I hope to see my tax money by Friday, and have the order placed the same day. I just need to make a list of everything I'll think I am going to need, down to the wires, ends, etc. I should probably consider putting a gauge of some kind on this to be aware of my SOC, no? Something like an ammeter or voltmeter, not sure which though.



major said:


> And I thank you  Maybe you could ask again
> 
> !George,
> 
> ...


I am a bit more concerned with the tiny axle failing under power than snapping or spinning a belt now that I have a better understanding of just how an EV can perform. I caught a Youtube video yesterday of someone on here from Canada with a DRZ motorbike that they did a rather elaborate build on, and watching that bike take off was unexpected. I understand the theory, but haven't seen an EV, any EV in motion. I've done a fair amount of reading, understand a fair amount, but until I saw what _could_ happen I wasn't sure.

I'm going to look at the Alltrax and Curtis right now. I appreciate the heads up. 

I want this project to succeed. I want to learn from it so that I can do more. I have been changing my driving habits to force myself to slow down, and it's resulted in a 3 MPG increase (dropped my average speed from 75-80 MPH to 60-65 MPH). I drive a Chrysler 300C, which has a Hemi so it's never going to be the best in the MPG department. But I want that MPG to head toward infinity in that I will not need to have an ICE on board. That will be a pretty ambitious (more expensive than ambitious) goal as my current commute is roughly 130 miles per day on days that I'm not picking up or dropping off my son. Fortunately I have a 2001 VW Jetta that I will want to convert as it weighs about 3100 lbs versus the 4400 lbs that the Chrysler is. My single largest issue I think is going to be affording the batteries to make that drive.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Major, I like that little yellow tug! What make is that? I've seen plenty of the Cushman and Taylor-Dun carts, but that is different. Does the tractor part have a 3rd wheel that I can't see, or is the trailer part of an articulated support?


http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170726#post170726 Post #16 & 18.

A full pull


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

!George said:


> I caught a Youtube video yesterday of someone on here from Canada with a DRZ motorbike that they did a rather elaborate build on, and watching that bike take off was unexpected. .


Hahaha! Me?..

My bike take off like a rocket, but it's because my motor could produce over 100 lbs-ft of torque at 600-700 Amps.
The little ME0709 probably produce around 40 lbs-ft at 300A.


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

Yabert said:


> Hahaha! Me?..
> 
> My bike take off like a rocket, but it's because my motor could produce over 100 lbs-ft of torque at 600-700 Amps.
> The little ME0709 probably produce around 40 lbs-ft at 300A.


Yes, you! Thank you very much for posting that video up. The wife and I were both impressed with your diligence, documentation of your project, and your attention to detail. The renderings were a real "Wow" moment for both of us. I'm looking just to start on a project, the fancier stuff will come later.

Where did you get that motor though? And where did you get the housing that you contained the gears in for your transfer case? I bookmarked the gear website you put up in your thread.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

!George said:


> I I am a bit more concerned with the tiny axle failing under power than snapping or spinning a belt now that I have a better understanding of just how an EV can perform.


Hi !,

I often pull that same wagon loaded that high with oak using the little eTractor. It was a 25 year old Sears 10hp mower when I got it for $25 about 18 years ago. It came without deck or engine. I was interested in frame, tires and seat. The tranny (axle) was always noisy in 3rd. I've never been inside the thing. I couldn't tell you if it even has lube. If it ain't broke, you know 

Yeah, like I said. I don't use it every day. But then again, it has been out in the unheated leaky roof barn since I built it. I don't have much in the way of hills. Just a slight grade in the front yard where I haul the wood to stack. And I do goof off and do wheelies now and then, not for several years. Stupid axle has held great.

As opposed to the yellow monster. It has a motor mount direct to axle, single ratio. It is similar to a golf cart axle. It was an experimental product using a roller gear ring and pinion. Now that I am worried about  It is still working but is getting noisier. And I'd never be able to get repair parts. But WTH?

I wouldn't be too worried about the axle. Also, you might consider doing a down and dirty (cheap) conversion for starters and get your feet wet. You'll learn a lot and end up with a better machine for your final investment.

major


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Don't worry too much about breaking the axle or gearbox, your right foot is responsible for that, mostly.

I broke my previous trans popping wheelies but that unit came from a walk behind mower that was never intended to carry so much load.


Just found my tractor has a puncture. Those 285 70 16 tyres are not easy to pull off the rim!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I broke my previous trans popping wheelies


Darn wheelies


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2012)

Major, 

Thats a pretty vintage looking little tractor. Nice


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

Okay, I'm looking through Cloud Electric's site (vendor picked at random, and for information on the site) and trying to make a more detailed list as I want to try to get the order in today. Some more things that I'm thinking about:

Battery connectors
Wire
Wire-end connectors
Fuses/circuit breakers
Contactors
Shunt
Ammeter
Voltmeter

Am I missing anything else you can think of?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Are you crimping terminal eyes on the cables?

Adhesive lined heat shrink would be useful to insulate the crimps and support the end of the cable.

Have you decided on the cable size? For my tractor I am using 35sqmm, 2AWG I think, welding cable. Very flexible.

Loads of assorted zip ties will get used too.

A battery isolator switch is also useful, to quickly isolate the pack while testing and setting up. Also removing the key from it will stop someone 'playing' while your back is turned.


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Are you crimping terminal eyes on the cables?
> 
> Adhesive lined heat shrink would be useful to insulate the crimps and support the end of the cable.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking about doing the DIY terminal eyes with some copper fittings from the plumbing supply. I can add some heat shrink after building them.

Wiring - I was going to see if I can find a local welding supply shop to get some wire. And I think I need to use 2 gauge, given that the motor can take up to 100 amps nominal. I am thinking of a 150 amp circuit breaker, but now as I'm thinking about it, 2 gauge is good for about 100 amps, and you typically want the breaker sized below what the wire can handle.

I'm at $850 between the ME0709, KDZ72300, and a 150 amp breaker with cover. I still need



 a shunt
 ammeter and/or voltmeter
 a pot to control RPM
 batteries
 wire and the copper pieces for connections
I have zip ties, a box of 1000, in my toolbox.  Anything I'm missing? Or can I go without some of these things as it is a first time project and not on-road?


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

And it already has a key switch on it.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

!George said:


> I'm at $850 between the ME0709, KDZ72300, and a 150 amp breaker with cover. I still need


Hi George

Just in case or you don't saw this site: http://evdrives.com/index.html

They sell 300A Alltrax controller (non-programmable) for 178$.
They also sell ME0810 motor for 385$... good value! But ME-0709 is more rugged and can be use later in a faster EV. Also, their speed characteristic vs voltage isn't the same (power remain the same).

I personally thinks than 48v systems is more than enough for a tractor. Let say 48v 125A, it's roughly 6.5 hp at motor shaft.... My 1800 lbs car can cruise at 30 mph with this power...


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## !George (Jun 9, 2009)

Thank you Yabert, I had not seen that site before. I'll take a look at that once I get home. I don't know that I'll really be using this motor on anything else besides this Toro project. I rarely cannibalize a project to use on another.

And that's a good point about the power output. It is difficult to shift my mind away from the ICE way of thinking.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I have asked, and asked, and asked....


Maybe you could remind them that weaning a mower off gas is equivalent to removing the pollution of two small cars.


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