# EPC controllers



## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

This company does not seem to be discussed on here as far as my search yielded, and I am curious if anyone has experience with their products.
http://www.epc-corporation.com

Their controllers almost seem too good to be true, but if they do work as they claim then they are quite impressive. I am certainly wary of the lack of cooling though.


Here are the PDF's for the individual controllers:

NEV, up to 240V & 400A continuous, 800A peak.
http://www.epc-corporation.com/images/NEV_Controller.pdf

EP-Junior, up to 240V & 600A continuous, 1000A peak.
http://www.epc-corporation.com/images/EPjr.pdf

EP-1000, up to 240V (480V optional) & 1000A continuous, 2300A peak.
http://www.epc-corporation.com/images/EP-1000.pdf

EP-2000, up to 350V & 2000A continuous, 3200A peak.
http://www.epc-corporation.com/images/EP-2000.pdf


As you can see, those are some pretty big numbers, rivaling that of Zilla, Soliton, or NetGain.
The controllers are quite industrial in appearance and do seem to lack the finer features and complexity of the popular units. Though to some (such as myself) that may actually be a point of appeal for a simple minimalist plug-and-play conversion, which is why I became interested when I came across them.


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

They don't work, you need to search better


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Keep searching!

The EPC controllers are ................
Just think of something made by a blind monkey


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Beware of member PZigouras. He works for or owns EPC. He has an annoying habit of trying to push that crap on this forum. You can search his post history and find examples with photos and pissed off customers. Stay away from him and EPC.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Good to know. Thank you for warning me. Sorry, I am not sure why I could not find anything when I searched.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Use google, as the search for 3 letter words won't work well on this forum.

Use site:diyelectriccar.com EPC

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site:www.diyelectriccar.com+EPC


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

frodus said:


> Use google, as the search for 3 letter words won't work well on this forum.


EPC is a four-letter word.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Matej said:


> Good to know. Thank you for warning me. Sorry, I am not sure why I could not find anything when I searched.


Don't listen to major; He has been lying about the EP-1000 for many, many years now, and continues to do so to this day. If you want to find out the THUTH about the EP-1000, you can visit the controller's support site at www.EP-1000.com

All the technical data is there, and everything is still essentially the same as it was in 2010.. very little about the controller has changed.

Oh yes, and those fake pictures that major's "friends" posted online... they were debunked by our customers a long time ago. None of them were real.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

For crying out loud, you don't even have the decency to lie low do you? How many people have you conned on ebay selling your fake controller crap now then Paul? 

I don't know how people like you can sleep at night, you're a disgrace. Would you even care if and when your dangerous rubbish actually kills someone?

Major and all his "friends" on here are nothing but helpful with real, useful, technical input freely given and thankfully they've saved a few people from being ripped off and put in danger by your rubbish. 

Just how stupid do you actually think people are?, not long ago you were posting pictures of a graphics card on here pretending it was a controller board!! I really think a Mod should review the evidence of your shenanigans on here and ban your arse...


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

favguy said:


> Major and all his "friends" on here are nothing but helpful with real, useful, technical input freely given and thankfully they've saved a few people from being ripped off and put in danger by your rubbish.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

Sounds like the THUTH to me.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

PZigouras said:


> I believe that *Duncan* is an engineer, and even HE will tell you that they are not only safe, but have far superior power handling to ANY mosfet controller.


The same *Duncan* who posted this just two days ago? 



Duncan said:


> Keep searching!
> 
> The EPC controllers are ................
> Just think of something made by a blind monkey


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Pete offered to test one of your "things" but from what I can tell you never followed through on getting anything to him. I really don't want anything to do with you or your stuff. All I have done is to give an honest opinion of what I see posted by you and by those that have been unlucky enough to come in contact with your crap. Many of the images I have included were provided by yourself in posts on this forum or eBay. Please just go away.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

major said:


> The same *Duncan* who posted this just two days ago?


 Let him examine one, THEN he can give an unbiased opinion -- which is something we will never get from you. Then, he can be one of the people that actually certifies the product, instead of just making guesses based on made-up statistics from the competition. 

I am not even going to mention the fact that the EP-1000 was tested by both AMI technologies in ME, and Jabil's Product Design lab. Because that just doesn't matter to you.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ok, time to jump in here. In defense I actually did get a unit. Took a very long time but I did get one. I have been terrible slow to follow through with the test I promised I'd do and I will. I do have to say that I was told for this unit I need to remove a chip and replace it with another as this is a rather old EPC 1000. I was sent the chip and will do that straight away then I will first set up a test rig for first test on the bench. With video. More to come. I would like to say that I think it would be important to put in some sort of low voltage current cutback to help protect the batteries when they are low. Orherwise you will need some sort of BMS on your setup.

Pete  

I'm going to stay as neutral as possible here.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

onegreenev said:


> Ok, time to jump in here. In defense I actually did get a unit. Took a very long time but I did get one. I have been terrible slow to follow through with the test I promised I'd do and I will. I do have to say that I was told for this unit I need to remove a chip and replace it with another as this is a rather old EPC 1000. I was sent the chip and will do that straight away then I will first set up a test rig for first test on the bench. With video. More to come. I would like to say that I think it would be important to put in some sort of low voltage current cutback to help protect the batteries when they are low. Orherwise you will need some sort of BMS on your setup.
> 
> Pete
> 
> I'm going to stay as neutral as possible here.


Then don't offer suggested "improvements". Can't you just test the thing as received? Does it resemble these photos in post 187? 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/epc-controllers-55160p19.html


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

major said:


> PZigouras said:
> 
> 
> > I believe that *Duncan* is an engineer, and even HE will tell you that they are not only safe, but have far superior power handling to ANY mosfet controller.
> ...





PZigouras said:


> Let him examine one, THEN he can give an unbiased opinion -- which is something we will never get from you. Then, he can be one of the people that actually certifies the product, instead of just making guesses based on made-up statistics from the competition.


Are you on the same planet?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

PZigouras said:


> I am not even going to mention the fact that the EP-1000 was tested by both *AMI technologies in ME*, and *Jabil's Product Design lab*. Because that just doesn't matter to you.


Hmmm, neither of those places show up on Google's radar.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Jabil is www.jabil.com and they are one of the largest manufactures of electronic devices in the world.

AMI's address is http://amiems.com/

In 2010, AMI actually wanted to build all our EP-1000 and EP-2000 controllers under contract, but the cost per unit [if under 100 units] was too high, so we decided to do the manufacturing ourselves in East Bridgewater.

We developed the original motherboard in 2010, and they really haven't changed much over the past five years. The new ones are actually plug-in compatible with all the older controllers. 

Below is a picture of our current motherboard. We had this particular one custom made for an OEM, but it is identical to the current EP-1000 control board. I know I have some pictures of the older boards somewhere, and I will try to dig up... they are almost identical to this one.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi PZigouras,
Send me one and I will test it,
So far all I have seen is pictures of something that I would not dream of actually using, and your latest picture of an incomplete control board when everybody knows it's the power boards that are difficult


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Hi PZigouras,
> everybody knows it's the power boards that are difficult


 I have always been under the impression that the power stage was always the challenge, not the primary electronics. The reason I feel this way is because 90% of the failed Curtis, Kelly, and Logisystems controllers that we've seen had failures on the high power side, not the primary electronics. 

But I can see your point... if the high power side is not carefully monitored, it can get ugly quick. That said, over the past five years, our control boards seemed to have protected the high power side quite well. I was not able to find any photos of the 2010 boards, but I did find some 2014 and 2012 boards:


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Bingo... I found an original from 2010. 

I guess they changed a little bit more than I had originally thought. But still a far cry from the silliness that some unknown person tried to post a few years back. I think the board in my own car actually dates back to 2010-2011... and it seems to be working well even after four years of fairly aggressive driving.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

You don't understand - two more pictures of incomplete "control" boards

It is the power stage - the bit that actually controls the 1000 amps or whatever that is difficult
Even I could make a fair fist of designing a "control" board


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Oh, there's no controlling of the amps here. When you put your foot to the floor, it lets everything out. We've seen a high of 1433 amps on the meter, and one user claimed almost 1600 amps for three seconds during a launch.

The output voltage can be limited by adjustment, but the current has no limits on the standard version of the EP-1000. Still, it's hard to blow the controller, because the desaturation detection kicks in about 4 us after the IGBT module is stressed past what it can handle. And it's rare that anyone gets that high unless they are racing competitively.

One good thing about the Powerex CM1200 module used in the newer EP-1000's is that it can take a LOT of abuse. We dead-shorted it on the test bench for 12 us repeatedly (with the desaturation protection disabled) and it held it just fine. Not bad for 10+ year old technology.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Words - no pictures and the words don't actually make sense

Send me a sample to test or show decent pictures 

So far the "blind monkey" is looking good


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Ok, I decided to go ahead and change out the IC on the main board. What I found was the one IC that was there was not set in the socket. It was more or less just riding on the socket and would not have worked well or at all. I put in the new socket and snugged it in good n tight. The other thing I noticed is that the board says Jr but the box says 1000. Looks like a Jr board. Otherwise it looked OK from my perspective. Big thick plastic casing and a real beefy finned heatsink and the IGBT modules are well attached. Im not sure what I'm looking at but I have been aware from the beginning that these have zero amperage control. Its all or nothing according to the load. So what would it take to put in AMP control or amp limiting so the IGBT modules can't go into an unsafe zone. 

Pete 

Next step will be a low voltage bench test.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So here are the rest of the pictures I took.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Pete,

Where did the 2.0uf snubber come from? It's supposed to have a 0.22uf on the freewheel diode, and TWO of the 0.75uf in SERIES on the IGBT.

Did we ship these snubbers to you separately?


- P


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Words - no pictures and the words don't actually make sense
> 
> Send me a sample to test or show decent pictures
> 
> So far the "blind monkey" is looking good


 
Here's a good one for you. Someone kept emailing us a while back saying that the motherboard "was not protected from EMI". This was his controller. Can you spot where the EMI was leaking in? 

In reality, it wasn't, because we scoped it while running a motor under load, and we also had an outside lab evaluate it as well. But this is the kind of fun things that we have to do when someone gets a crazy idea in their head.

This particular controller uses 1/16th-inch stainless steel plates on both sides of the board, and one on the cover directly over the PCB -- all of which are grounded full-time. Below the PCB is the heat sink (1/4-inch thick base) which is also grounded. We have since upgraded the shielding as well, but as you can see, not everything is as bad as people make it out to be. Still, any ideas or constructive criticism is appreciated. Just because it's an economical controller does not necessarily mean that it can't be continually improved.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

PZigouras said:


> Pete,
> 
> Where did the 2.0uf snubber come from? It's supposed to have a 0.22uf on the freewheel diode, and TWO of the 0.75uf in SERIES on the IGBT.
> 
> ...


I have no clue. This is as it was shipped. The only thing I have taken off is the main board only enough to gain access to the IC to change it and to take a few pics. I don't like touching too much. I just want to show as it is.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

_I have been aware from the beginning that these have zero amperage control. Its all or nothing according to the load._

So how do you drive that? - My throttle controls motor current - 50% throttle is 50% current (max current set by software) - until the controller reaches 100% when current is controlled by battery voltage and back EMF

How can you drive something without controlling current??


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Well I am going by what he says. No amperage control. Throttle control, yes. Accepts according to the specs any type of throttle. Hall or TPS or cheap pot. Has to be some sort of throttle control or its impossible to use in a vehicle. There is no control for amperage cutback in the event the batteries are low. Im sure I will need a pre-charge setup before I put it on my vehicle. So in other words there is no way to throttle back the amps via software. Amp limits are only from the hardware and not software. I'd like to have amperage control to allow me to reduce the amps via a set point so I never go over a specific amp set is software. 

Its a dumb controller.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

onegreenev said:


> So here are the rest of the pictures I took.


Hi 1green,

Thanks for posting the photos. What a load of crap it is. No control; certainly no quality control. No control over anything of which I can see yet it is supposed to be a motor control. And, although repeated claim of no current control, which is true from all that I have seen, this unit you have includes a current sensor part number LEM LT 300S. It is clearly visible in several of your fine photos which I will paste in here.










In another photo you posted which I'll post below you can clearly see the pass-thru hole in the center of the current transducer where the conductor which carries the current to be measured must be inserted. That is empty. The device will measure no current. Also of interest is a clipped cable Scotch taped to the top of the transducer.










I'll just stop with that observation. Just by showing the insides, any potential customers should be dissuaded. I know I'd be mad as hell if somebody sold me that crap.

major


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## bigmotherwhale (Apr 15, 2011)

what can you say, where do you begin? 

speechless


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Where is/are the capacitors?

My 500 amp controller had a tonne of big capacitors - about 20 of them

My 1000 amp controller has a single huge beast - must be nearly a foot across and Paul went to some lengths to make the geometry of the conductors that go between the capacitor and the IGBT's correct


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Guys, please don't analyze and redesign the thing for him. There is sooo much wrong


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

major said:


> Guys, please don't analyze and redesign the thing for him. There is sooo much wrong


Actually, quite a bit that has been changed here. For one, they disconnected the current sensor, and rewired around it. They also modified the motherboard, replaced the snubbers, as well as some other components.

From what I recall, the original customer tried to modify this controller to do something (can't remember exactly what, but I believe he wanted to change the soft-start). After his modifications, the controller no longer worked, so he sold it to someone on ebay. The person that he sold it to replaced a few components -- probably in some attempt to repair it -- but was unable to.

The second owner then sold it to someone else at his local EV club, who replaced several more components, and apparently tried to modify the motherboard as well. That new owner called us, and asked us to warranty it for him. We sent him a brand new one (they retailed for $1899 at the time), and he sent us back the old one. That's when we discovered that the controller was several years old, has been through several owners, and had been modified several times.

We plugged it into the test bench, and it seemed to work fine. We were very busy at the time, and didn't have the time or interest to road-test it... plus, we considered the controller a total loss at that point anyways. So we sent it over to Pete for some road testing, at his convenience. He already had a Synkromotive controller installed, and we figure this would be a good comparison, assuming that the EP-1000 was still usable.

Anyways, back to the customer. That was quite a while ago, and the guy is still happy with the brand new controller that he received. Which is really great, since he only paid about $200 for the old, non-working controller to begin with. Still, some say that we don't have good customer service. Mind-blowing.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Duncan said:


> Where is/are the capacitors?
> 
> My 500 amp controller had a tonne of big capacitors - about 20 of them
> 
> My 1000 amp controller has a single huge beast - must be nearly a foot across and Paul went to some lengths to make the geometry of the conductors that go between the capacitor and the IGBT's correct


 You must be talking about the 1500uf Power Ring capacitor from SBE. Yes, we have some of those here as well, and I must say, they are quite large. But they are also very expensive, and have very little capacity for their size. 

We normally use two 1500uf UCC capacitors (electrolytic) and one 490uf AVX (film) capacitor in our EP-1000E controllers, for a total of about 3500 uf. More capacity than the SBE, although they cannot handle as much ripple.

For high-ripple applications, we recommend our EP-1000S, which has 100% film capacitors from AVX. Although they will not handle as much ripple at the SBE cap, they do handle quite a bit... a lot more than a normal car would produce.

What controller is your SBE cap installed in?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

PZigouras said:


> Actually, quite a bit that has been changed here. For one, they disconnected the current sensor, and rewired around it. They also modified the motherboard, replaced the snubbers, as well as some other components.
> 
> From what I recall, the original customer tried to modify this controller to do something (can't remember exactly what, but I believe he wanted to change the soft-start). After his modifications, the controller no longer worked, so he sold it to someone on ebay. The person that he sold it to replaced a few components -- probably in some attempt to repair it -- but was unable to.
> 
> ...


Pete, can you believe what they sent you to test?

I've said it before: I want nothing to do with this outfit or anything they make, sell, or touch. My advice to all: Stay away from them.


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## bigmotherwhale (Apr 15, 2011)

anyone with a grain of knowledge can see the problems with your controller, Its staring you in the face yet you seem to be oblivious, and you have even come back with counter argument. 

Its clear you know nothing about electrical engineering or engineering.

If you would just take on board what people have been saying, by now you could have a product that is half decent. 

why do you think this controller has been modified by so many customers? what do you think they were trying to fix?


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

bigmotherwhale said:


> anyone with a grain of knowledge can see the problems with your controller, Its staring you in the face yet you seem to be oblivious, and you have even come back with counter argument.
> 
> Its clear you know nothing about electrical engineering or engineering.
> 
> ...


 According to the original owner, he was trying to change the soft-start feature. Why, I do not know. I've had the same software in both my cars for almost three years now, and I think the softstart is perfect the way it is. My gut tells me that he probably had a loose connection in the pack somewhere, but this was never proven.

Secondly, I am not an electrical engineer, and I never claimed to be. And since was not involved at all with the design process, I'm not sure why that would matter. Brian and Will did most of the electronics and software, and the rest of the design was outsourced. I did most of the marketing, customer service, warranty, and parts ordering, which does not really require you to be an engineer. You do have to be good with Microsoft Office, however.

Thirdly, we made several changes to the controller, based on input from other people on this forum. Some changes worked out very well, and some advice turned out to be wrong, but it was all a positive learning experience.

If anyone else has recommendations on modifying the latest design of the controller, please call or write us. This is especially true of our current customers who have put a lot of miles on them... we always ask for your input. If we wind up taking your advice, you will get something in return. Something nice.

We appreciate any technical input, and it will probably serve for a much better product in the future. This will be especially helpful if the controller someday becomes open source... it will be less work for everyone.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

What are these and what are they used for in a controller?


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Those are the film capacitors. I believe they are rated at around 400 volts, and 100 uf each. They were only used in the very early EP-1000 models, and have since been replaced by these 500 volt, 200 uf units from Electronic Concepts (the ones with the bus bars across them).


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