# Drag Racing EVs



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

At least 1/4 mile.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

monkmonkey said:


> I've been watching drag racing videos on youtube. I'm wondering what kind of miles per charge would those get?


How many miles do those gas fueled drag cars get on the tank full of gas they carry down the drag strip?

A drag car needs to go a quarter of a mile plus return to the pit area. Any extra gas or battery on board the drag racer is unnecessary mass the car must accelerate and carry down the track, so hurts the performance. 

Ideally the electric drag race car would have the battery sized exactly for 1/4 mile range. If fact, that is pretty close to what one EV drag car did because it used ultracapacitors instead of a battery. So at full throttle it had just a little more charge than was required to go the 1/4 mile. Those guys even pushed it to the starting line and skipped the burnout.

On the other hand, you have John Wayland and his White Zombie which is one of the fastest/quickest street legal EV drag cars. I hear he often drives it to and from the raceway, maybe like 20 miles.

With these high C rated LiPo batteries (like 60 to 90C), you'll see the purpose built EV drag cars using batteries which at full performance give just a mile or two of range. At surface street speed limits, maybe 10 to 20 miles.

Just my take on it. They build the battery for maximum power, not lots of energy.

major


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## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

John Wayland's "White Zombie" can do 100 miles on a charge under mixed or highway driving conditions.

A drag ev can obtain good range, if you design the car to have it.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I agree with Major. A good drag EV would be able to "give it all up" in 1/4 mile.

But, going 100 street miles is ok, but I never drove any of my fast quarter milers on the street...(OK maybe once)...

Miz


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Actually, by the time you put a pack together that reasonably meets your racing needs, even with LiPo, you end up with a bit of range just because of the tremendous amount of power in the pack. If you size your pack so tightly that it's almost completely expired at the end of a 1320ft trip, you're going to need a pretty big sponsor to keep buying packs, and a hazard zone around your car in the pits to permit safe swapping of high voltage/high current packs in a pressure situation. From what I've seen, most LiPo seems to have a fraction of the cycle life of LiFePo4 to start with. Push them to their max, consistently, and you'll need deep pockets, or Go Army! on the side of your car.

Every pack I put together on paper for the Inhaler Model E would have at least 25 miles of range, and most have 50-75. I didn't care if it was 5-10, as long as the power was there, but it was always more than I expected. 

Even the fastest racing is a compromise of power, speed, practicality, and safety. 

On the other hand, I watched a Funny Car (on TV) today run out of fuel just before it crossed the finish line, because it sat idling and waiting for the other guy to stage too long. Again, he had a major corporate sponsor plastered down the side of the car...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

mizlplix said:


> I agree with Major. A good drag EV would be able to "give it all up" in 1/4 mile.
> 
> But, going 100 street miles is ok, but I never drove any of my fast quarter milers on the street...(OK maybe once)...
> 
> Miz


I think the street part is essential. EVs are still a far cry from competing with purpose built dragsters, but they're certainly up there for street legal speed. I especially like the idea of drove it to the track, raced it, will drive it home as opposed to trailered it, ran 1/4 mile a few times, look how green I am!!...back on the trailer.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Professionals in the racing industry have a peculiar mind set. It really borders on insanity, looking for that last hair to split when squeezing out performance. It is is impossible to explain unless you are or have been there.

Driving it to the track and open trailering is OK when you are starting out, but sponsors want to see a "No-holds-barred" effort for their dollar. 



Miz


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Even the fastest racing is a compromise of power, speed, practicality, and safety.


Hi todd,

What does practicality have to do with it  There's nothing practical about racing all out to win or for a record. And if a battery pack could get you a record run, with back up, and have a 2 cycle life, there would be racers ready to buy it. I have even considered primary cells for racing, you know, non-rechargeable.

Regards,

major


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I thought about primaries too before. Lithium primaries can really pump the juice but beyond a certain level of current they can really burn up quick.
Risky stuff, but there are other primaries out there and racers aren't always that concerned with safety, they'll just put a fire shield and put them seperate them from the drivers compartment and run the race.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

MN Driver said:


> I thought about primaries too before.


The biggest obstacle for me was the inability to test the "race pack". Once you test it at load, it's done. And there is no way to verify a brand new primary pack is 100% race ready without load tests. Catch 22.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

MN Driver said:


> Risky stuff, but there are other primaries out there and racers aren't always that concerned with safety, they'll just put a fire shield and put them seperate them from the drivers compartment and run the race.


One of the concepts for deep space travel is to drop a series of nukes out the back and ride the shockwaves...I wonder if anyone's considered something similar for racing.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

major said:


> Hi todd,
> 
> What does practicality have to do with it  There's nothing practical about racing all out to win or for a record. And if a battery pack could get you a record run, with back up, and have a 2 cycle life, there would be racers ready to buy it. I have even considered primary cells for racing, you know, non-rechargeable.
> 
> ...


Almost everything humans do has a certain amount of practicality, it's rarely ever really all or nothing - just the sense of all or nothing. Sanctioning bodies place rules over the all-out Pro classes to keep it safe, competitive, and practical enough to last. Even the mighty, astronomically priced F1 and Top Fuel racing classes have rules that restrict their ability to truly go all-out.

The final word, even for the massive budget top Professional classes of racing, is money. If costs goes beyond a certain point the racing will die prematurely. Also safety; if the limits were taken off, and Top Fuel dragsters suddenly dipped into the 2-second range, but drivers, crew, and fans were being hurt or killed, sponsors refused to support the cars, and public outcry demanded an end to the class - a bit of praticality could easily have prevented it and prolonged the life of the sport.

In the case of EV drag racing and having just enough battery to make the run - same thing. The costs would sky rocket, fires, electrocution (from swapping high voltage packs in the pits), and possibly explosions might result, people could get hurt or killed, electric (which is largely misunderstood) could be labeled "bad" (which could extend into the production/mass adoption area). Yeah, all that is could/would, FUD, the sky is falling, scenarios, but also things to be considered. Is the risk worth it, or would it be more *practical* to go a little slower and safer? Those are the risks the people who make the rules weigh.



major said:


> The biggest obstacle for me was the inability to test the "race pack". Once you test it at load, it's done. And there is no way to verify a brand new primary pack is 100% race ready without load tests. Catch 22.


In other words, it isn't even practical to experiment with - or someone would be doing it. 

My notifications aren't coming through for this forum? It was working perfectly, and then nothing. I just happened to stumble across these last posts in this thread.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Even the fastest racing is a compromise of power, speed, practicality, and safety.


You notice I didn't take exception to safety. And always "by the rules". But I guess you and I have different concepts of "practical"


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

major said:


> ...But I guess you and I have different concepts of "practical"


 Probably. I have a habit of viewing _everything_ from a business standpoint.

I take it back - my notifications are working. I received the last two for this thread. Maybe I have just been deleting so much stuff, so fast, lately that I deleted some before checking the threads.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> My notifications aren't coming through for this forum? It was working perfectly, and then nothing. I just happened to stumble across these last posts in this thread.


I wasn't aware of a forum subscription, but you can easily check for a specific thread (you do get autosubscribed by replying):
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/usercp.php

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/subscription.php?do=viewsubscription


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

OK, Speaking of drag racing:

There are chassis, suspensions and other components out there that transmit 5,000-7,000 HP. (developed over a 75 year period for ICE powered vehicles)

*QUESTION*: Is there or does there exist, an EV capable power plant in this range?


That leads me to my second question. The next problem with something that puts out thousands of HP, is the ability of a storage media to give up sufficient current in 4 seconds to accomplish the task.

*QUESTION:* What is available today to contain and release this amount of energy in so short of a time period?


We actually need an EV racing *"think tank"* to master mind an overall strategy to bring EV's up to speed with the rest of motor sports in general.

Miz


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

mizlplix said:


> *QUESTION*: Is there or does there exist, an EV capable power plant in this range?


Yes, but they're likely all immobile or on rails.

I don't know the actual specs, but cloudelectric claims warp 13s can do 2000hp..so if you run 3-4 of those and have some way to feed them...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> cloudelectric claims warp 13s can do 2000hp...


Hahaha! maybe, but cloudelectric are stupid.... 2000 hp represent 5252 lbs-ft of torque at 2000 rpm!
Or on the other side, over 10 000 Amps at 170v...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Maybe they just meant 2000 amps...the two are easily confused and the difference really isn't important.


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