# Beryl - Bradshaw FB2



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I will be collecting Beryl on Monday, brought forward from the end of the week.

I have assembled the temporary battery pack for the move. I used short links of cable with crimped eyes to link the cells. There is a 300A fuse and an isolator switch. The pack measures 52.45V.
An Anderson connector on the side of the box allows a 1500mm long lead to be connected and that can be bolt connected to Beryl's old battery cables. Hopefully, all being well, that will allow Beryl to be driven about and out to the trailer.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Very cool! Keep us up to date with lots of pics, and best of luck!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers. 

I still have to install the BMS to the battery pack but I haven't ordered the connection leads for it yet. I still don't have a charger either!

I am getting a little nervous of collecting Beryl as I still don't know how she is even road registered! Hopefully it would have been done properly and I can continue to use her on the road, with a little modification.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Up early today and on the road in a few minutes to bring Beryl over from York!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Sweet! Looking forward to seeing the Woodification!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Sweet! Looking forward to seeing the Woodification!


I have no proper idea what is going to happen yet!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

We got Beryl back after a very long and arduous day, yesterday.

We left at 7.30am for the 70 mile drive to York, expecting a number of stops to check the trailer, as I hadn't towed it since it was rebuilt.
We found one of the wheel hubs was getting warm and the smell of brake shoes was strong. I slackened the brake pull rod and carried on.

At a later stop the hub was still warm and I found that the link on the back of the drum was sticking. I freed and wiggled it a bit and carried on.
With the stops and heavy traffic it took just over two hours to get there.

I took along the lithium battery pack to see if Beryl would start up but despite everything appearing to work application of throttle showed a fault code. I checked everything I could but to no avail.

We tried to push Beryl but with all my might, pushing against a wall, I only managed to move her an inch! Her brakes were sized on.

We decided to hand winch Beryl out from her parking space instead.
Firstly we winched her backwards out of the space with the winch anchored to the environment centre's wind turbine.
Then we winched her forwards across the gravel path using the maintenance anchor for servicing the turbine.
Then we used the entrance gate post to winch her across to the gates.
Then it was the lamp post outside on the carpark road to get her onto the sloping drive.
That task took two hours of hard sweaty labour in the heat of the sun.

At that point, with a bit of help we were able to push her down the slope and into the car park to my trailer.

We decided to load her after lunch.

That was when I found that the hand winch on my trailer just couldn't move her weight up the ramps with her sticking brakes as well.
We couldn't use the hand winch I was using earlier as there would be no way out of the trailer for the winch man once Beryl was winched in.

Our only solution left was to use the replacement vehicle, an electric Goupil, to push her up.

Beryl was finally loaded and tied down at 3.30pm.
I set about checking the brakes, and tires on the trailer, oiling the sticking brake rod and pumping the tires to 65psi.

We set off on the 70 mile drive home and was caught in rush hour traffic and a motorway crash.
The first stop showed the hot wheel hub was still getting hot. I made some more brake adjustments.
The next stop wasn't any better and so as an extreme measure I decided to slacken that brake off altogether leaving only one wheel braking at best.

At the third stop the hub had cooled and so we carried on eventually getting home at 7.30pm!

Tired and headachy I managed to bump the trailer against my drive way gate bending one of the ornamental scrolls. Drat!



Today I repaired the gate and took some photos of Beryl for you all.
She is a bit rusty so I am not sure if she is worth restoring, modifying, or just parting out to use her cab for my other EV truck project.

Points against her are that she is fully American (Taylor Dunn) spec and so isn't road legal in the UK despite having been road registered and in use for 10 years!
None of her lights or glass are 'E' marked, she has solid tires, and is left hand drive.


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## stealthhack (Aug 18, 2011)

OMFG soo much rust, i hope you can restore this little truck, did you think to leave the electric motor in it, or you thinking to change it?
Do you gonna make it flatbed?
Hope to see more pics in the future!   
Subscribed!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

If I can figure a way to make her run at three times her design speed then I will keep her motor and transaxle.
I would need to change to normal sized road wheels and then double the motor speed, whatever it is. But first I will find out what the overall reduction ratio is from motor to wheel.

I can adapt the chassis I have been building for my EV truck to fit as it is a very similar size and that would then allow me to use MGB front and rear axles and direct drive with my 11" motor. However that would mean a full IVA inspection and losing the registration number. Easier to just graft her cab onto the other project really.

However, Beryl is still much loved by staff at St Nicholas fields, where she was working, and also by Arch, my wife, and she used to drive Beryl four days a week.


I will start a gradual recording and dismantling process to see what crumbles and what doesn't.

An awkward part of Beryl is that only some of her is completely rusted through. The rest of her is fine and sound. But, she seems to be made from 1/4" thick steel angle and box section joined with 1/8" steel sheet panels. She weighs about 3/4 ton without batteries!

Even I could half her weight (don't laugh, Todd!) by just rebuilding her with thinner steel. But that would be a lot of good steel being removed and all the rusty steel being removed. That doesn't leave much....

I found this video of Beryl's back axle from Taylor Dunn. It looks like an item worth saving and reusing.


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## stealthhack (Aug 18, 2011)

Can this motor work in overspeed mode with advancing brushes?
I supose AC motor is better for high speed revs. 
And what's the rated power on this sep-ex motor?
Nameplate?
This little tires are soo cute, one good high speed motor and you can call this truck, a race cart 
It will be nice if you leave this type of tires on that little truck, the speed can be corrected with other ways!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...Even I could half her weight (don't laugh, Todd!)...


1/2" Woody-plate probably wouldn't reduce the weight. Just sayin' 

Sounds like using the cab on your truck might be the ticket. You would still be preserving her _essence_, without getting in over your head. I understand the sentimental value, but that's pretty serious rust to battle.

I didn't get how small she is, until the pics inside your trailer!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

stealthhack said:


> Can this motor work in overspeed mode with advancing brushes?
> I supose AC motor is better for high speed revs.
> And what's the rated power on this sep-ex motor?
> Nameplate?
> ...


The motor plate shows 24v/36v/48v and 4.6/7.6/9.7hp at a 5 minute rating.

Those little tyres weigh about 30kg each!
They are solid filled.

I need to see what other options there are on the wheel stud pattern but the centre hole is larger then the average car wheel. It may be possible to have the hubs redrilled but it would be nice to find a standard 'off the shelf' car brake disc and wheel that would fit so I can have bigger discs and calipers.

There is still no budget for this, but a twin Lynch motor at 10k rpm would be good, if the gears would take it.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> 1/2" Woody-plate probably wouldn't reduce the weight. Just sayin'
> 
> Sounds like using the cab on your truck might be the ticket. You would still be preserving her _essence_, without getting in over your head. I understand the sentimental value, but that's pretty serious rust to battle.


I checked some of the angle iron cross members in the body work and it is 8mm thick!

I guess that given she can carry over a ton and pull 2 tons, albeit at less then 5mph, she would have been very heavily built.

I think I will get her out of the trailer, remove all the electrics and then jet wash her to see what stays and what is blasted away.



toddshotrods said:


> I didn't get how small she is, until the pics inside your trailer!


She is tiny, only 42" wide.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Beryl is now sitting outside, behind the trailer. 

I have had to move the tractor into the trailer as it may be going off to do some work.

In the meantime I have taken photos of the data plates on Beryl's motor and charger.
I don't know if it is possible to make the little motor spin faster for more speed, or if the gears would take it if it did.


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## stealthhack (Aug 18, 2011)

Not bad, 7kW motor on that little truck, but that *S2-5min* is not so good!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

For simplicity I will probably not use that motor as I would have to get a higher voltage SepEx controller at some stage later on, and the motor is a little small.
I guess the 5 min rating is because Beryl was never designed to go any distance within a factory yard. That probably explained why she was so sluggish in her last job driving a few miles continuously, flat out, and loaded on the public road. The controller was probably cutting power as it, and the motor, overheated.

I need to take off the motor and see what the gear ratio is in the diff and in the reduction box to see what I can use to bring the speed up.
If I can lose the reduction box, and turn the axle around to put the pinion at the front, I might be able to fit a UJ flange and a propshaft.

I have put a bid on a Suzuki SJ410 gearbox that is small and light to use as a conventional motor/gearbox/propshaft/axle set up.
That gives me the option to use the 9" motor from the tractor, or the 11" motor I was planning to use for the truck project.

If the axle isn't adaptable then I will just use the MGB axle and merge the two projects.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

> I have put a bid on a Suzuki SJ410 gearbox that is small and light to use as a conventional motor/gearbox/propshaft/axle set up.


I just picked up the gearbox and it looks good. Even the oil that leaked out of it when I laid it on its side looked and smelled clean. 
[url=http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-sj-410-gearbox-/141652192123?ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=6Y8AaSFUIBLOdDcmrpQS46hGNp0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc]Linky.[/URL]

I also have the short propshaft for the back of it and it looks fine for use at that length. I can re work it longer though.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Hm, I saw you tractor, you mentioned Suzuki and both those reminded me of DIY tractor project with narrowed Zuki axles: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/93861-diy-home-built-compact-tractor.html
This might be an option for rear axle with a lot of ratio choices and good brakes (converts easy to discs). Stud pattern is 5x139,7 mm, unfortunately it's hard to find rims smaller than 15". 
Weight capacity would suffer a bit from original 88 tons  due to loaded axle shaft design but this could be overcome in a diy way using a mix of Samurai/Vitara/Sidekick OEM hubs, stubs and shafts.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

z_power said:


> Hm, I saw you tractor, you mentioned Suzuki and both those reminded me of DIY tractor project with narrowed Zuki axles: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/93861-diy-home-built-compact-tractor.html
> This might be an option for rear axle with a lot of ratio choices and good brakes (converts easy to discs). Stud pattern is 5x139,7 mm, unfortunately it's hard to find rims smaller than 15".
> Weight capacity would suffer a bit from original 88 tons  due to loaded axle shaft design but this could be overcome in a diy way using a mix of Samurai/Vitara/Sidekick OEM hubs, stubs and shafts.


Thanks.

I just read that thread up to the first test drive and I can't figure out what he did with the rear axle drive shafts.

On the front he used the short shaft on both sides but at the rear it just shows him shorten the axle case and reassemble it.
Have I messed something???

When I picked up the gearbox I did look at some axles and thought about doing the same thing using a front axle. That would give me something that works but I would need to make sure that it was aligned and not steerable for the road.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Rear axle has originally pumpkin offset to the right, just like front one; he probably used two shorter half-shafts in the rear, too.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have just found that the rear wheels from the Wheelhorse chassis I bought a while ago for the tractor have the right stud pattern to fit on Beryl!

I don't have the tyres for them any more but I wonder if they would be road legal, and if I could find suitable road tyres for the 12x7" rims!

Anyway, I think Wheelhorse uses 5x4.5" stud pattern (5x 114.3mm) so I can find suitable wheels to fit.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

z_power said:


> Rear axle has originally pumpkin offset to the right, just like front one; he probably used two shorter half-shafts in the rear, too.


Hmmmm, the axles I was looking at the offset didn't look that much, certainly much less then the front. Maybe he is happy for the front track to be narrower then the rear.

I will investigate further.

Cheers.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Photos of the Suzuki gearbox, and the tractor rim on Beryl's back axle.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have been digging around Beryl's chassis, There is a lot more rust then I thought. Everything is crumbly! 

It looks like any sort of restoration is not going to be viable without a whole new chassis. I knew it was going to be bad but it is getting worse.
If I change the chassis, the front and rear axles, the transmission and the motor then all that is left is the cab and the sides.

Today I removed Beryl's cab, it is only held on by 4 small bolts, and one of those was rusted through.
I disconnected all the wiring from the dashboard and left it reconnected so the chassis can still be started and moved about.

Then I jacked the cab off the chassis and tipped it over backwards onto a pallet.
The cab is mostly sound with only small areas of rust along the bottom edge so would be an easy renovation, it is a bit heavy duty though! 

I guess I am going to merge Beryl with my Quadricycle chassis and running gear after all.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

You'll make quick work of that restoration- it's all rectangular, not a curve in it! The cab would be the tough part, and it's sound. Hang in there- if it was worth doing my rust bucket Spitfire, this one of a kind vehicle is worth it too!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Moltenmetal said:


> You'll make quick work of that restoration- it's all rectangular, not a curve in it! The cab would be the tough part, and it's sound. Hang in there- if it was worth doing my rust bucket Spitfire, this one of a kind vehicle is worth it too!


Sadly the flat easy bits are ok, it is the curved tube chassis that is completely knackered.

If she was to be an 'as original' restoration then yes, not too difficult. But to also make her road worthy, road legal, and practical, then I would be replacing all the parts that I would need to keep to keep her registration and identity.

Beryl will come apart and I will continue to assess as I go along.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I just weighed Beryl's cab by placing scales under one side of it to get half the weight.

Her cab weighs in excess of 200kg! 
Not so much a cab but a complete safety cage for warehouse protection I guess.

Given that as a quadracycle she would only be allowed a 550kg all up weight....

Cab 200kg
Motor and trans 100kg
Rear axle 75kg
Front axle 50kg
Wheels 100kg?
Chassis?
Steering?
Controller?
Seats?

I am still thinking.....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Ouch!  Why quadricycle instead of a conventional truck - red tape?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Ouch!  Why quadricycle instead of a conventional truck - red tape?


Red tape mostly.
It is easier and cheaper to have it inspected as a quadracycle (MSVA) then as a full size motor vehicle (IVA).

But given this I will be looking to see how many more hoops I will need to jump through to achieve a full motor vehicle inspection.

The thing is that Beryl is already a road registered vehicle that has spent 10 years driving thousands of miles around York. If I was to just restore her as original then I could probably get away with using her in the same capacity.
However, there are so many elements that shouldn't be road legal: Solid tyres, non type approved lights and glass, no shock absorbers on the front axle, no screen demisting, etc.
I think she only gets away with it as she only does 12mph and was probably only registered to drive a few insurance covered yards between warehouses, much like a fork lift truck!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I hope the full motor vehicle inspection works out for you. What the world need is a Woody-built Beryl. It'll be like David Banner becoming the Hulk!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The Bradshaw sales team isn't very good, nor bright.

I have been asking for advice on Twitter and they asked for my email so their sales team could contact me.

With all the information I have given them they claim that FB2s are 36v not 48v, that they don't have any record of Beryl, and they have no record of any vehicles with her serial number or any number in that range!

I sent photos as proof of her existence and the chassis plate with all the details on, and pointed out that they had been servicing her for the last 10 years.

Their reply was to offer me a quote for one of their 36v chargers!
What good is that to me? I don't need a charger, and even if I did I'd want a 48v one to match the vehicle!

I despair of them! 


I daren't ask if they can supply a chassis, they might quote me for a trailer, or an aircraft tug!


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