# [EVDL] Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

As I recall, the Sparrow is 156 volts nominal. I think this is within 
the input range of a Iota90 to 132VAC ~ 120 to 186 VDC.) Your pack 
should swing from 169 fully charged (~186directly off of charge) down 
to 136 flat dead. Don't run the Iota from the pack while you are on 
charge, especially finish charge.

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dlm30.htm

and

$110 Ebay item 120179159590
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120179159590

Bill Dube'

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls55.htm
You could try this one out.
I have 110,000 cycles on one running a BLDC blower
moter on cycle test.
You can get them for less than $140 on ebay,
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=dls-55
Rod

I 


> --- "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > So, since it seems I've fried my DC-DC somehow,
> > anyone have a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bill Dube wrote:
> > As I recall, the Sparrow is 156 volts nominal. I think this is within
> > the input range of a Iota90 to 132VAC ~ 120 to 186 VDC.) Your pack
> > should swing from 169 fully charged (~186directly off of charge) down
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bill Dube wrote:
> > No small accessory battery?
> >
> Nope, no room in a Sparrow.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I believe you can use a very small 12 volt battery. Even a 10 pack of AAA
NiCd cells should have enough capacity to hold up the eMeter during change
over.

It is also possible to have both the Vicor and Iota connected to the 12 volt
system at the same time. Plug one in before you unhook the other to make
sure the EMeter does not get cleared. You could build some sort of interlock
box to make sure one comes on before the other goes off.

I believe 9 volts is enough to hold the settings in an EMeter. If you diode
OR the 12 volts with a 9 volt battery, the settings will be retained with
the power off.

Are you running a small DCDC converter to run the emeter separate from the
lighting power? You can feed your backup power to the output of the small
converter instead of connecting it to the pack power.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow




> > Bill Dube wrote:
> > > No small accessory battery?
> > >
> > Nope, no room in a Sparrow.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Joe Smalley wrote:
> > I believe you can use a very small 12 volt battery. Even a 10 pack of AAA
> > NiCd cells should have enough capacity to hold up the eMeter during change
> > over.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

By default, Sparrows are set up with a single DC-DC that produces 12V from
156V. The E-meter is driven from a 12V to 12V DC-DC converter. Since the
Sparrow didn't originally isolate the 156V and 12V ground, the little DC-DC
is really, really cheap.

John, you could consider using a laptop power supply (one that happens to be
a switcher) to power the E-meter directly from the propulsion pack. Then
you could let the Iota cut out while charging. This would kill two birds
with one stone. First, you'd get better isolation (I assume you're
de-fanging your Sparrow) and you'd ensure that the E-meter has constant
power.

- Jake Oshins


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Joe Smalley
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:50 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow

I believe you can use a very small 12 volt battery. Even a 10 pack of AAA
NiCd cells should have enough capacity to hold up the eMeter during change
over.

It is also possible to have both the Vicor and Iota connected to the 12 volt
system at the same time. Plug one in before you unhook the other to make
sure the EMeter does not get cleared. You could build some sort of interlock
box to make sure one comes on before the other goes off.

I believe 9 volts is enough to hold the settings in an EMeter. If you diode
OR the 12 volts with a 9 volt battery, the settings will be retained with
the power off.

Are you running a small DCDC converter to run the emeter separate from the
lighting power? You can feed your backup power to the output of the small
converter instead of connecting it to the pack power.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow




> > Bill Dube wrote:
> > > No small accessory battery?
> > >
> > Nope, no room in a Sparrow.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Try this- it works great, isolated, low power, inexpensive, runs on pack

http://www.belktronix.com/dcdc7wR2.html




> Jake Oshins wrote:
> 
> > By default, Sparrows are set up with a single DC-DC that produces
> > 12V from
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The E-meter in a Sparrow is powered from the EVCL
black box. The DC/DC in the EVCL is powered from the
13.8Vdc main supply. The EVCL DC/DC is ZUS 3 1212, a
Cosel power supply, 
http://www.coselusa.com/product.asp?Id=148
Rod


> --- Jake Oshins <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > By default, Sparrows are set up with a single DC-DC
> > that produces 12V from
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's not the one in my Sparrow's EVCL. And since John's Sparrow's serial
number is mine plus two, I'm guessing that his is the same as mine.
(Perhaps you only worked on the very late stage Sparrows that Myers bought?)
Mine has the NTE1212, which is a really tiny little bugger with almost no
potential for isolating large voltages. Lee Hart went on about this at
length in an old post, which I'll excerpt here:

(this followed a suggestion that somebody could just do what Corbin did and
use the 1W NTE1212)

The Link 10 (aka E-meter) draws about 150ma at 12v in full sunlight (it 
brightens its display based on the ambient light level). 12v x 0.15a = 
1.8 watts, which is a significant overload for a 1 watt DC/DC converter.

The input voltage range for the NTE1212 is 10.8-13.2v. This is 
inadequate; the accessory battery and its DC/DC converter can easily 
range from 10.5v to 15v.

Most importantly, the input/output isolation for this part is wholly 
inadequate for an EV. The advertising claims 1000vdc; but read the data 
sheet (at http://www.cd4power.com/data/power/ncl/kdc_ntec.pdf)! It says:

A question commonly asked is, "What is the continuous voltage
rating that can be applied across the part in normal operation?"
...less than 42.4 vac peak, or 60vdc... The part should never be
used as an element of a safety isolation system... The NTE series
has toroidal transformers, with no additional insulation between
primary and secondary windings of enameled wire.

The DC/DC converter that you use to power a Link-10 / E-meter needs 
*guaranteed* isolation sufficient to withstand your full pack voltage 
continuously. You aren't going to find this on a cheap DC/DC. The one 
Cruising Equipment used was a Datel part that cost over $30; but it was 
rated at 1500vac, UL listed, 9-19vdc input, and 12vdc at 0-250ma output.

Or, you can use an AC/DC universal input, DC-output power supply to 
power the Link-10 / E-meter directly from your pack. Such supplies 
almost always have isolation voltage ratings of 1500v or more, and are 
UL listed (which means they have to GUARANTEE that it is isolated). For 
example, I am using an Astrodyne MSCC-5003 which has 3000vac isolation, 
85-265vac (90-370vdc) input, 15v, 0-0.33a. This is a potted module with 
screw terminals that sells for $80, they have cheaper versions if you 
want to package it yourself.

(end excerpt)

As a final note, I was recently at Goodwill trying to find a cheap stool for
my workshop. They didn't have one, but they did have a whole wall of old
power supplies from all the things that had been donated. I picked up a
bunch of AC/DC universal input DC output power supplies at various output
voltages and wattages for $2 a pop.

- Jake Oshins


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Rod Hower
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow

The E-meter in a Sparrow is powered from the EVCL
black box. The DC/DC in the EVCL is powered from the
13.8Vdc main supply. The EVCL DC/DC is ZUS 3 1212, a
Cosel power supply, 
http://www.coselusa.com/product.asp?Id=148
Rod


> --- Jake Oshins <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > By default, Sparrows are set up with a single DC-DC
> > that produces 12V from
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

All of the EVCL circuit boards I've worked on have
layouts for either DC/DC. All of the EVCL's I have
built used the Cosel part (I've built about 32).
I'll send you more data offline.



> --- Jake Oshins <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > That's not the one in my Sparrow's EVCL. And since
> > John's Sparrow's serial
> ...


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