# Brians EV conversion- Build Thread



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Brian, 

Congrats on getting started... I am about to start mine too....

I'm converting a Ford Probe.... The Storm is probably nice and light for this. It should make a cool conversion. 

I pick my donor up on Saturday, and as chance would have it, my boss is out of town all next week.... so I have plenty of time to work on it. The Engine will probably be out by Monday, and I plan on having it cleaned up and ready for fabrication and installation by weeks end... Lets hope. A week solid of every day should get me there.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

have ya picked up the motor yet? what voltage are ya doing?

I am picking up my car Sat as well (I hope) same thing motor out ASAP!


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

I haven't decided on anything solidly yet. Every time I think I've made a decision something else comes my way and I waver.... 

But I'm thinking that I might do one of the KTA conversion kits... or just go a la carte.

ahem... just bought an engine hoist at Pep Boys... gettin' ready!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

ya I have been that way as well finally just did it on the motor get it be happy and move on,, but ya so many choices. I am going ala carte on the stuff as well as my budget can be spread out more that way. Finally made the decision on the batteries, for the first project car I am using the flooded 8 VDC golf batteries, able to get the 178AH ones for $101.00, from a local supplyer + 15 bucks each for the core charge, Still cheap I thought more maintanence but O well every pro has a con, if all I need to do is a monthly "boiling" and add water I can live with that,, but the decision is over now I can move on. I have litterly been awake all week till 4 AM going over it all ,, on the forums all night as well,, let me tell ya though a week ago I knew nothing and I sure know alot more now!! Can't wait to get the cars Saturday called u haul and linned up the trailer and have a friend ready to help,,, willl try to get the motor (engine ) out Saturday will send progress pics. I think I mentioned it earlier but some of the lead times are crazy now so look ahead or get stuck waiting for 3 months for a MUST have part ( like the motor)


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## Manntis (May 22, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

does the Storm have the same Lotus suspension as its Impulse twin?


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Thanks for the heads up on the lag time on ordering.... I will have my funds within the next two weeks, so I will order everything then. I was looking at the 'transwarp 9' today... any thoughts? Says it's more efficient than the warp 9. As far as the pack goes, I haven't settled on flooded or AGM. I will get more longevity out of the flooded, but the AGM's are no maintenance and handle deeper loads (as far as I can tell) . So much to learn. 

I am planning on doing updates as well. I'll be posting to my site: http://www.harrisburgev.com

Keep me posted! I'd love to know how yours is going.

Dave


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

the probe is probably heavier than my car so more power will not be a bad thing The regular Warp 9 would be a solid choice I am sure. I just saw the weight of the Ford Probe it is 2894 lbs. I really looked at the warp ( it is more powerful) but also unobtainable for 2 months,, the impulse will do me just fine and I paid 1575 for it. The warp 9 is 1700 and most places I called or have seen wanr about 200 bucks or more to ship it. I had my motor shiped on my Fed ex account, it will be about 60 bucks for 150 lb box by ground. There are so many choices just be sure it is a series wound motor and has the ability to advance the timing (unless you are doing re gen) I have already looked at your site ,,,,,,,,,,,cool start (photographer huh???)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

this looks like awesome wire high temp etc 
price looks OK as well any one ever use it?

http://www.cableyard.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=32


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Yeah, I'm a photographer for a livin'..... Used to work for magazines / Newspaper in Florida. Now I'm in PA trying to build a clientele. 

I can't seem to settle on a motor or controller.... any good research suggestions? I've been all over google and this site, but I just get myself more indecisiveness! I'm leaning toward the Advanced DC or the Warp 9. with a Curtiss 1231C...


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

I think I am settleling on the Kelly kit here http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=product&cat_id=30&product_id=258

and this controller http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=product&cat_id=20&product_id=148

talked to kelly today (steven) returns his call immediatly ( hard to understand) but very helpful,, I like the ability to programm the controllers to my parameters so I have read bad things abouut their controllers not working long or not at all and he seems to think it is user related, loose battery connections etc. I have made the decision and I am going to do it. Good custome service hold a lot for me.

I got the garage all cleaned up and ready for the donor tomorrow, I will send photos ( no laughing) hope to get all the gasser stuff and engine out we will see. Have saws all will travel

Brian


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Good luck ! I wish i was at that point . Maybe in a week or two ! J.W.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

the worst part so far is putting it all together I feel better now and I can sleep ,, I am so looking forward to getting started tomorrow

Brian

What is your conversion?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Official Day #1 up at 8 AM went to UHAUL ( what a pain long lines) got the car brought it home by 12:30 returned trailer and motor out by 5:30,, very sore hands trouble with one rear motor mount ,, cut it with 4" cutting wheel and also cut one of the shifter cables accidently ( oh well ) any where hers are some pics.

Brian


PS that is not me power washing the car it is a friend,,, of course he left when I started on the engine removal,,,,, LOVE AIR TOOLS!!!!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

had trouble up loading all the pics so I will do a couple per page I think I figured it out,,,, here are the rest.


Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

wow, you weren't messing around! Looks like you have a lot of interior work to do also. We drove to NJ today and picked up the Probe. Drove it home with no problems. It needs some front end work because it wanders a little bit. Also pretty sure one CV joint is shot. All in all, it's a good little car. Even the engine is strong... too bad it has to come out ... he he..... Anyone know anybody who needs a Probe GT 24 valve engine? 

Oh, funny thing... we pulled up and my wife asked me what the 24 volts sign meant on the car... It's a 24V (valve).... he he... got her thinking electricity, baby!

Unfortunately I won't be able to work on it until I finish the shed and move all the crap out of the garage. I worked on the shed until dark... still have to build the doors and finish some odds and ends. 

Then I get to assemble the engine hoist!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Also for sale a 16 valve HO GEO STORM engine LOL,,, Actually the interior is not as bad as it looks,,, I was in Car audio for 20 years so interiors are pretty easy for me,, Once I scrape the mud off it is not to bad,, tking the night off and tomorrow seperating the engine from Tranny,,,, mabey vaccuum the interior (NAWWWWWWWW)

Well get that shed done and get started,,, I am sure this willl be the worst day,, it did suck, but its done.


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Nice work Brian. I'm looking foward to reading/seeing how you progress especially as you're "full on" into this conversion. The car (not familiar with it in Australia) looks to be a great vehicle for the project.

Any idea where you will be placing the batteries?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Hoping to get 10-12 under the rear seat, everything will be under the car in that area with an access panel of some sort,, the interior will be about the same when done, there will be no big battery box that you will see, I hope to get the remaining bats under the hood,,, I haven,t really looked yet to make a solid descision, but I can assure you it will be cooooool. I have 20+ years as a car audio inatsller so I know interiors and how to work with them.... I am Syked!!!

B


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*



rctous said:


> I am Syked!!!


Amazing what you can achieve when in that frame of mind! Run with it!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Day 2 and about 11 hours total time into the car. Took out the interior, cut a couple holes, degreased and power washed the engine / motor bay for the last time,k put it up on jack stands, got a good strat on the rear brakes, wow what a chore getting the drums off but a couple hammers and some liquid wrence off they came. I was actually happy to see that the drums were actually ok, I threw them on the lathe and basically just cleaned them up with some emery and they are ready to go, you will see the actuall brakes and that are needs some serious cleaning and replace the pads of course, but I had enough for the day and called er quits. my plan is to get 7 of the batteries in the back cut out and 3 of them in the front cut out and 5 under the hood ( not counting the 12 supply battery) I think it will work, but I need to go get at least one battery to confirm sizes (don't trust the published dims) so next is the brakes to finish and start on the rear boxes, they will all be under the car just above the lowest point of the frame, I will make a fiberglass top for them that easily removes for service,, not to many injuries today except stuck my hand in a spinning wire wheel ( just some scratches) although the thumb is a little sore,. Well thats day 2 in a nutshell.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Here are another 5 pics

Brian


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## pheobo (Jun 11, 2008)

Sub'd...

Looks like it's going to be a great write up. Thanks for sharing!

Did you end up with the Kelly controller?

What are you plans for the adapter plate and drive coupler?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

have not ordered the controller ,but yes I think I will try the Kelly,,, as for the adaptor plate and coupler I will build them both may use steel instead of aluminum ( as I can weld the steel) if I need to space it out, then I would cut some holes in the plate for lightening it up. I looked at a chart for the strength differences between Alum and steel and steel is about 30-40% stronger near as I can tell so I figured I could get away with 1/4" steel and still not be too heavy,, I will decide that pertty soon. As for the drive coupler looks like I willl remove the shaft from the clutch then weld it to something like a steel pipe that will fit over the motor, I have the lathe so I can turn it to be perfect (I hope). Will certainly keep ya's informed.


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Man... you are cruising... you don't waste any time, do you?

Unfortunately, I had a very interrupted day. I finished the shed and moved all of the stuff from the garage... was interrupted several times by kids and thunderstorms, but I managed to hang an 8 foot door on the shed to wrap things up...

Assembled the Engine Hoist this evening, and first thing tomorrow the Probe is getting neutered! Hopefully I will have as productive of a day as you did today!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

glad to hear the honey do's are done and now you can do some real work on the EV,,, (LOL)I think the worst is over for me now, I will probably just putz around tomorrow on the rear brakes and axles get them out of the way. I need to clean up the whole area there and also want to remove the bearings clean ,inspect ,lube then replace, I saw the price for new ones and they want like 325 for the rear axle/ bearing assemble. They do turn nicely and true with no slop so I am sure they will be fine when I get them done. 

Just be sure to drain the oil and other fluids as you can see I did not drain the oil from the engine and its pretty messy, also the gas tank is about 3/4 or better full, my friend ( who is coming to get all the steel tomorrow for scrap said he will burn it in his truck (OK I said) it is 13 months old.

Well good luck tomorrow watch the nuckles, mine are still very sore, and the axles will probably be the toughest part. Call if I can be of any assistance.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Well today started off with me pulling my Magnum (car) out of the garage to go to the junk yard to get a replacement shifter cable and while backing out ran over a angle iron and blew a tire,,, that stunk pulled it back in and grabbed the truck and off I went , not to much drama at the salvage yard 1 dollar entrance fee and the cable cost me 2.15 yee haww, when I got back things went pretty smooth and this is cool ,, I was able to put my Magnum spring on the EV you will see it in the pics,, did no math no calcs just trim here and there and it fits nicely,, I hope itd no to stiff but if it works I saved a bunch of money thats for sure. Buttoned up the passenger side brake and tossed the drum back on adjusted the brake and called it a day,...

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

just came across these any opinions? The 10 hr rate is 110 so I imagine the 20 hr rate must be 120 AH it would save me a couple hundred pounds.

http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=31


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

not much done today,had a busy day at work but managed to slip out for a couple hours and get the other rear brakes and new springs installed, so rear suspension and brakes done, I reall do not think I will need to do any thing up in the front other than new brake shoes, I have decided on 10 120AH batteries (Agms) at 77 lbs each a bit lower AH than the 150AH I had planned on but the weight saving I think will be worth it, and with 4 up front its only 308 lbs so between that and the old engine and the new motor it should be about the same weight up front.
Thats it for today.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Started doing some machining today for the coupler for the motor /transmission

still need to attach the clutch plate and drill the hole for the motor shaft , I want to wait for the motor before I do that, which I hope is still gets here this week.
I haven't decided if I am going to rivit or drill holes tap them then use allen head bolts weld the remaining clutch plate to it, probably scews but that is alot of tapping ,,,,oh well I liked the idea of saving the clutch springs to absorb some of the initial torque as well it will allow for slight misalignment. I may take this to an actuall machine shop to have them drill/ machine the hole for the motor as all I have is a 7/8 drill bit and I am not entirely sure I trust it to be perfect. I will drill a scrap piece first then see how tight or loose it fits then decide. I figured this would be a pretty tough part and so far I have 4 hours into it, not counting going after the raw steel, I also plan on drilling holes in the plate to lighten it up, when it is all done I have a magnetic balancer that we use for airplane props and I will use the same idea to make a balancer so I can balance this when its all assembled.

All went well so far


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

just added some lightening holes to the coupler and took off 7 oz .still need to drill the pilot hole for the motor amd transmission, today I will cut off the old clutch pedal and then hit the swimming pool with the kids,, its hot here today and very humid

B


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Haven't done to much for the last couple days, helped a friend with his ICE car and we are preparing for our annual staff party on the 5th. Did manage to replace the shifter cable I cutt off during the engine removal, got the AC core and the heater core out today (what a pain in the A^%$$#) heck that was as bad as pulling the engine out. Started some of the body work, still no motor (I sent the check to the wrong address) oh well sent another one out today. Thats about it may go back out later and do some more body work or not.

B


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## HellTriX (Jun 10, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

Nice to read up on your progress, thank you.
I've started my EV, but I'm not even half as fast as you


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Brians EV conversion*

I don't think anyone is as fast as Brian. What he did in one day it took me a week.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Wow you are really moving. I have spent months collecting components and such, but I hope that my actual convering only takes a few days. My coupler is being quoted and hoepfully machined while I am away on vacation. Then when I get back I can gut and convert!

rctous how strong is that coupler? I have this massive stainless steel coupler that is 3.25 inches in diameter and 2 inches long so maybe mine is seriously overkill for my little 6.7" motor.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

the steel rod is 1 1/2 solid steel and the round plate is 1/2 steel, I countersunk the 1 1/2" rod into the plate before I welded it, I can't imagine ir not holding up to the task at hand,, I willl surley let ya know though, I did find this product today for combatting some rust sounds like great stuff and I ordered some today just a quart though its kinda spendy http://www.rustbullet.com/Products/Automotive/Automotive.htm read through the web site not just the automotive link here.

B


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Haven't done much due to our annual staff party and relitives visiting but die get the plate steel today for the motor/ tranny adaptor plate I will work on that later tonight and post the progress but this did show up at my door step!!!!!!!! THE MOTOR!!!!

it's pretty darn cool

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

OOoooooh. I'm jealous!
Knowing you, it's already in the car. 

I may have found a warp 9 that is due to ship within two weeks... was ordered, but not claimed! I'm placing the order for everything tonight. Having the salesman work up an invoice for me.

Have fun installing tonight! 
Dave


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Managed to cut the steel plate to the shape of the transmission tonight, it was a lot easier than I anticipated, only used 2 blades and cut it with my cordless jigsaw, took about 30 minutes to cut it but it is so hot and humid I would cut for 5 minutes and rest for 15,, now I need to drill the mounting holes and figire out dead center,, I can't believe how heavy the electric motor is WOW. But it is so cool.

Dave thats awesome on finding a Warp 9 motor,,, not to mention getting everything ordered,,


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

I wish I had your skills, dude... There's no way I can keep up with you!

Awesome that you got your adapter cut. I may make my own as well. I've done some minor metal work before, but never anything this 'important'. 

Placed my order. Warp 9 is mine as long as factory ships when they say they will. 
More on my blog....

You'll have this thing running before I even get my motor. Wow!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm interested in the performance of the Rust Bullet. I've seen it before but never bought any. Of course I'm more interested in using it on rusted metal so I don't know how much you'll really be testing it.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I'm interested in the performance of the Rust Bullet. I've seen it before but never bought any. Of course I'm more interested in using it on rusted metal so I don't know how much you'll really be testing it.



Oh I have rust and I will keep you posted on its performance,, I hope it works as advertised.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I have been putzing around on the coupler and the tranny plate and all I can say is YEEEEEEE HAWWWWWWW got the clutch mounted to the shaft for the motor and have that shaft attached to the motor as well,,, Heck I even fired up the motor on 12 volts and the shaft coupler is perfectly true. I wound up boring it out myself on my lathe as the machine shop wanted 195. bucks,, wasn't sure I could do it but it is perfect. I also cut the 1/4" steel plate with the jigsaw ( I think I mentioned that earlier) that was actually pretty simple. If you look at the tranny plate you see the 1" square tubing I am using for the spacer,, not done with that all yet. once I get the motor mounted to the tranny I will run the motor again ( on 12 volts) to be sure there is no wobble ( I do not expect any ) then bolt all that together and I sure think this will have been the hardest part of it all. Glad so far all is going so well, I will keep ya all posted as I get this mounted in the car!!!!!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

A picture is worth a 1000 words,, major milestone accompiished!!!!

And it turns true, no wobble no vibration ( at 12 volts any way. I am sure it wil be fine,,, Next step get it in the car!!!!!

Brian


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## HellTriX (Jun 10, 2008)

So how did you get it on so accurately?
Like the measurements what process do you use to insure precision?


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

rctous said:


> A picture is worth a 1000 words,, major milestone accompiished!!!!
> 
> And it turns true, no wobble no vibration ( at 12 volts any way. I am sure it wil be fine,,, Next step get it in the car!!!!!
> 
> Brian


Damn Brian, i wish i would have been that lucky, my brand new warp11 shaft has .010 runout which caused huge vibration so back to warfield electric it went. My Mustang was within a few weeks from its madien voyage, now who knows. Btw, warfield/Netgain were very concerned and had a shipper at my door within a day to pick it up.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

O'Zeeke said:


> Damn Brian, i wish i would have been that lucky, my brand new warp11 shaft has .010 runout which caused huge vibration so back to warfield electric it went. My Mustang was within a few weeks from its madien voyage, now who knows. Btw, warfield/Netgain were very concerned and had a shipper at my door within a day to pick it up.


At least you caught it before you had the car all together, you could have ended up spending a lot of time trying to chase that out


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

HellTriX said:


> So how did you get it on so accurately?
> Like the measurements what process do you use to insure precision?


A bit of trial and error
lined everything up on the lathe so that part had to be perfect mounting the clutch assembly was the hardest because it had to be welded to the coupler,, I tac welded it then tossed it on the lathe found out where it was off ground off the weld re did it and the second time ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, perfect. Also the way the clutch plate works if you look at yours very closely the shaft part that actually slides over the tranny shaft is able to move slightly and offer some "self alignment",, I highly recommend using this part of the clutch assembly for this reason and for the shock absorbsion it will also offer.

Also once the coupler is attached to the motor it pretty much aligns itself perfectly, once it was in the right position I tac welded the spacers in that location, took everything apart marked the hole locations drilled them out then re-assembled. Added 12 VDC to the system and not a wobble at all, also probably was rotating the motor at 2500-3000 rpm it spins up pretty fast with no load at 12 Volts.

This am I started adding the one motor mount bracket to the tranny ( at least I have one for a line up) the others I will have to make up, as well the axle to the passenger side front wheel used to bolt to the ICE so now I need to fabricate a mount for that as well. Here is picture of the motor and trnnny in its final position on the motor hoist with the one mont added. I thought I could do this without a hoist but let me tell ya "NO WAY", I am sure I could have but it would be stupid difficult,, by th way Harbor Freight has them on sale right now for 99 bucks ( unbelievable) price. If you do not have one at this price get one. It is as important as the batteries are.


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Brian you are making me jealous.

Hope things go as smoothly for me.... can't wait until I get my motor....


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## Vwbeamer (Jun 16, 2008)

Great project.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Now this was pretty cool,,, needed to mount the right axle assembly to the motor tranny system, normally this was mounted to the ICE but take a look here closley and it is extremely solid and ridgid utilizing one of the bolt holes in the motor mount,, still everything runs smoothly! (WHEW) now start getting it in the car permanatly,, just another challenge, so far there have been many.

Brian


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> At least you caught it before you had the car all together, you could have ended up spending a lot of time trying to chase that out


Hi JRP3, yeah i was hoping it was the flywheel, or the hub which would have been a simple exchange but i got a little suspicious when the key bound up in the motor shaft slot about 1/4" in so i machined the key to fit. i should have stopped right there. Oh well, now its wait and wait some more


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## Earl42 (Jun 19, 2008)

Great work! That mount looks awesome. Thanks for documenting the build so well, really gives some insight into what all is involved non-kit DIY conversion.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

The end of another mile stone ,,, the motor tranny are in the car with no life support ( no engine hoist) and its permanent. It was not that hard actually to do, could never have done it without a MIG welder all in all spent about 6 hours total today getting it in its final resting place.
Went to the local EV club meeting today as well, found out people are using the motors from tread mills to run power steering pumps. The motors apparently can be forn for around 30 bucks,, I will keep ya posted on this as I will try it. Any way now if I had more money for more parts I could get er done. Next is the battery trays will do the rear first then the front and I will keep ya all posted on that. Motor tranny still turns very true and will hook the axles to the wheels tomorrow and replace the bad boots. Then put the tires on just to watch them spin!!!!!! I have around 50-60 hours in this so far and expect about 30 more to complete ( not counting body work ) The rest should be a breeze compared to what was just done.

Keep ya all posted. And hey thanks for all your interest I know several are watching this thread!!!!!!

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice work! How are you replacing the axle boots, half boots?


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## broadcastcentral (Jul 6, 2008)

great work! just curious how exactly the motor / clutch plate /tranny all come together.. where did you get the clutch plate and what did you do to it to prepair it?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Nice work! How are you replacing the axle boots, half boots?


nope got the factory replacements the axles are out of the wheels right now so I will just slide them up and re pack with grease and install them

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

broadcastcentral said:


> great work! just curious how exactly the motor / clutch plate /tranny all come together.. where did you get the clutch plate and what did you do to it to prepair it?


Clutch plate came off the original clutch I just ground off the 40 or so rivets and kept the center (hub if you will) there are pics that show the assembly and how I did it,, did you see them???

Brian


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## broadcastcentral (Jul 6, 2008)

rctous said:


> Clutch plate came off the original clutch I just ground off the 40 or so rivets and kept the center (hub if you will) there are pics that show the assembly and how I did it,, did you see them???
> 
> Brian


Yes i saw the pictures.. this picture didnt really make sence to me,








why is the clutch plate so off-center from the motor, or is it just an optical illusion? 


So if im understanding correct, you take the clutch plate and attach it to the shaft cupler, which allows you to attach it to the motor shaft. you checked to make sure the cupler and clutch plate were aligned on center using the lathe. correct?

Also, for the tranny plate that you made.. i am confused as to how you marked the holes to exactly align the clutch plate hole exactly where it should line up with the tranny splines. Can you go into detail on that a little better? seems to me if those holes were off even a bit it wouldnt work.

thanks, keep building, we're watching!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

broadcastcentral said:


> Yes i saw the pictures.. this picture didnt really make sence to me,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will and thanks for watching!


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## lasvegascop (Jul 14, 2008)

OK...How do you shift gears without the clutch? If the motor has constant torque the gears will grind, right? What am I missing?

By the way, this is one of the best pictured builds I've seen in a very long time! I wouldn't be surprised if you were getting spyed on by some car manufacturers hahahahha


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

when you are stopped shifting is easy ( no motor turning) when you are moving there is just a "feel " to find the gear,,, any standard transmission will shift without a clutch,, try it if you have one just go slowly and feel for the gear

Brian


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## lasvegascop (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes, I've done it before, but the idea of waiting and feeling for the RPM and feeling the gears is just too messy. Specially when you grind them, geez thats embarrasing! hahahaha

but thanx for the reply


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## Deekman (Jun 29, 2008)

lasvegascop said:


> Yes, I've done it before, but the idea of waiting and feeling for the RPM and feeling the gears is just too messy.


It's a feeling thing. Once you get used to the box and the torque, you can shift sans clutch as quickly as with. (although you won't be doing any drag racing with the no-clutch beast!)



lasvegascop said:


> Specially when you grind them, geez thats embarrasing! hahahaha but thanx for the reply


It's easy to prevent grinding... 

1) pull out your manual and see what the shift points are.
2) when you reach the RPM for the shift, simultaneously ease the throttle and slip the stick out of gear.
3) gently push the stick against the synchro for the next gear. (on older boxes like mine, you can hear the synchros coming up to speed)
4) maintain pressure and *clunk* in it goes!

The key is to never force the gear in... if you have to force it, you're going to grind because the sychros haven't done their job.

It's difficult on some boxes (the Ford T-9 for example) to tell where Neutral ends and the synchros begin... on those boxes, you're pretty much hosed unless you're really good! (I never could shift my Merkur sans clutch... but the Escort was a breeze!)

-Deek


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ya its really pretty simple once ya get the hang of it.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

By the way if you are looking for high quality DC to DC convertors these will work awesome,,, I am not trying to advertise these but a 30 amp convertor for 135 bucks seems pretty darn cheap to me so I thought I would pass it along. I spoke with the owner of Cascade Audio today and he tells me just run 96vdc-190 vdc directly into the AC plug ( make an adaptor so you do not lose warranty) 130 vdc is optimum.

https://www.tanicpacks.com/index.php?cPath=76_53=f40fd6532e740f88234e801c8e629e74

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well not a ton to report but I got the axles in with the new tie rod ends, brakes, rotors and the boots, the axles and cv joints were easier than I thought it would be, but very messy. I bought grease just for the cv joints not knowing that the boots came with a couple bags of grease,, that was a bonus. Hooked up the transmision cables put it in first gear, added 12 vdc to the motor and the wheels spin (rotors)(yeee hawww) went through all the gears + reverse and they all work like a champ! Basically the front end is done, at least the hardest part is. The battery boxes controller etc. should be a snap,,, next project will be the rear battery tray and then the front one, I will do some body work while I wait for other parts to get ordered (the money thing) probably be able to get the controller next week ,and there is a 10 day lead time on that,, I can live with that. Batteries still 5-6 weeks out,,, I can see some light at the end now. SO glad this part is over.

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

5-6 weeks yet for your batteries? I thought you ordered them like 3 weeks ago?

I'm actually considering a change. I was waiting around Pep Boys for a tire to get plugged yesterday and went to the battery section. I found an Energizer deep cell with 120Ah rating for $79.99 ! Seemed a little heavy, but not too bad. Might be similar enough to go ahead and do it for me. Only downside is that it is not maintenance free. It's a flooded lead acid batt. But... the savings would be significant enough to consider adding water every two weeks. I can't find the specs (weight, measurements) online yet, so I'm going to keep looking. 'Twilly' here on the board bought the 90Ah rated Energizers and he's going round trip to/from work 10 miles total every day. He's going three and four days between charges and his car's weight is similar to mine. Same motor, too.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> 5-6 weeks yet for your batteries? I thought you ordered them like 3 weeks ago?
> 
> yes I did order them about three weeks ago then it was 6-8 weeks so I assume 5-6 weeks I will have them,, Ya the less expensive batteries may be a great idea,, but I am not prepared for that kind of maintanence.
> 
> ...


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

waitin' for parts.... 

just doing body work right now.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

got a start on the rear battery tray today, still need to have the brackets welded so I can bolt it to the frame, This will hold 6 batteries and there will be 4 up front.

Brian


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

man,you are moving right along. test drive on monday?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Sure for you I will make the first test drive on a MONDAY!!!! LOL

Brian


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

but seriously folks......great work!! wish i was at that stage,i'm still gathering parts!


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

joseph3354 said:


> but seriously folks......great work!! wish i was at that stage,i'm still gathering parts!


Yeah, this is going great. I am at the stage of sitting next to my cell waiting for the machine shop to say my coupler and plates are done. Dropped the stuff off on Monday and have been sticking around with my cell ever since and answering every call with the hope that my stuff will be done. Yes it's pathetic, but it's the only thing keeping up my project now! They said it would take about 2 hours of work, but the coupler was sent to another location for a taper cut.


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## michaeljmutch (Jun 11, 2008)

Very nice documentation Brian. Im in the research stage and will be watching you cross the finish line!


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## broadcastcentral (Jul 6, 2008)

hows reverse hooked up?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

broadcastcentral said:


> hows reverse hooked up?


using a manual transmission so the motor always spins the same direction.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

well got he mounts ready and done for the rear battery tray, here it is in primer, I will go paint it black later tonight,,then final install in the car tomorrow ,,,,this is so solid!!!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Got the battery rack for the rear painted and did some body work today ran through the gears again with the motor spinning the rotors,, so cool, body work won't take to long but might as well get er done while I start the wait for parts, came up with a pretty cool idea for the power steering motor that I want to bounce off ya,, want to put a micro switch a few degrees of "straight" ( position of the wheels) if the steering wheel gets turned say 10 degrees it triggers the micro switch which activates a relay to activate the power steering motor, I figure it just needs to be on a very simple cam,, this way the motor only turns on when the steering wheel is turned, if you are driving straight power steering is not really necessary,, as well you could make it speed sensitive so if traveling at 35 mph or so that it will not turn on the motor at all as it is pretty easy to steer at that speed,,( plus you won't be turning the wheel very far or quick ( generally) ( except perhaps to avoid a squirrel, dog or an accident??? I know I can make it will work and why waste the power if you don't need to?? Any thoughts guys???

Brian


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

i would be afraid of oversteering in an emergency situation.at low speeds ,not a huge problem.at higher speeds may cause a problem.might be a good idea to test it out before hitting the road.(i'm sure you thought of that already!)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> i would be afraid of oversteering in an emergency situation.at low speeds ,not a huge problem.at higher speeds may cause a problem.might be a good idea to test it out before hitting the road.(i'm sure you thought of that already!)


ya I was thinking about the over steer as well but if it always turns on at the same point (like 10 degrees or so) I am not sure how noticable it would be? Also like anything I think you would get used to it. Its easy enough to try and certainly easy enough to run the motor all the time ,,but I inmagine 95% or more of the time you drive a car straight so the energy savings is definately worth it I think. I will try it and let ya know.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

looking at doing 10 of these chargers 

http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/multi-volt-input/JAC0891-41.html

instead of doing just one Zivan NG3, with 10 of these I need not worry about balancing cells,, the weight is good 1.7 pounds each they charge at 12 amps (which I am OK with) it would cost me 970 bucks but regs now are about 38 bucks which I will need 10 of + the cost of the charger. Any thoughts on this? Also it will work on 110 volt as well as 220 volt automatically, that is a huge added bonus as it will cost 1/2 as much to charge at home on 220 volt and still be able to charge at other places on 110vac. 

Brian


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

10 chargers in series may cause you problems if the battery connection is common with the AC input. For example, if the battery (-) is grounded at the AC input cord, and you hook up two batteries, you effectively are shorting the battery out when you connect the second charger. Might try charging with two batteries with two chargers before you buy 10. Most likely you will be fine, just a precaution.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Ya I knowabout the ground,, I will not use the ground lead when I make the connection to the AC plug just the hot and neutral.( I did a similar thing with the lipo packs years ago to balance them, with muliple chargers and multiple power supplies), at least here I do not need multiple power supplies. I like this better than a single charger with no balancing.

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What about using 2 Minn Kota MK 440's and 1 MK 220? Save a couple hundred that way.
http://www.anchorexpress.com/product_detail.cfm?pid=8202
http://www.limitedgoods.com/itemView.php?ProdID=91014
or
http://www.manventureoutpost.com/marine/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4089

Of course I don't think you get the 220 volt option with these.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> What about using 2 Minn Kota MK 440's and 1 MK 220? Save a couple hundred that way.
> http://www.anchorexpress.com/product_detail.cfm?pid=8202
> http://www.limitedgoods.com/itemView.php?ProdID=91014
> or
> ...


That still leaves 4 batteries that can be out of balance I was looking at that idea as well but the only way to be sure to not over charge is to charge them independantly or use some sort of regulation. At 920 bucks (retail ,, I found them for 92 bucks each so far and I have yet to call and try to work a deal ) but at 900 bucks that pretty reasonable for 12 amps 110-vac or 220 vac I really like this feature,, normally for this option you get into the 2500 dollar range ( from what i have seen any way)

Also did you see the weight of some of those? two of them were 15 pounds for charging 2 batteries and I would need 5 of them thats 75 pounds the 4 battery one weighs 22 pounds and the ones I am looking at all 10 weight only 17-18 pounds

thanks keep the suggestions coming!

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> That still leaves 4 batteries that can be out of balance I was looking at that idea as well but the only way to be sure to not over charge is to charge them independantly or use some sort of regulation.


Not sure what you mean. They do charge each battery independently, the 440's are essentially 4 chargers in one, the 220 2 chargers in one, charging each battery at 12 volts.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Not sure what you mean. They do charge each battery independently, the 440's are essentially 4 chargers in one, the 220 2 chargers in one, charging each battery at 12 volts.


Yes your right (Sorry) I mis read that

the weight is still higher than my liking and only the 110 input


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Still working on some body work, I am not going to extremes here I just want it to look good when its all done,, Started on the fron battery racks today , its a tighter fit than I thought but managable. Confirmed the deal with the chargers and I must tell ya all as I am sure most of you are aware but SHOP AROUND!!!!!!! I got a screaming deal on 10 of the chargers , use Google and use it lots, that goes for everything, just because you found part "X" from Joe business look deep and makes phone calls, when coparing apples to apples my primary interest is price. I am also concerned about the seller and his company but generally speaking SHOP AROUND!. FInally tested the cars 12 volt system and most everything actually works and works well, the rear wiper motor gear is shot so off to the junk yard again or pay 85 bucks for a rebuilt one. Too bad I can't just find the little nylon gear, its probably a 5 dollar part.

Will send photos of the front Battery trays soon

Brian


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## since1969 (Jul 12, 2008)

Brian, finally got around to really poring through this thread for guidance and inspiration. You've got another fan, and I'll repeat everyone's thanks for documenting so well and carefully. From a guy in early r&d mode, it's a story like this that makes it all seem possible. -Scott


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> Confirmed the deal with the chargers and I must tell ya all as I am sure most of you are aware but SHOP AROUND!!!!!!! I got a screaming deal on 10 of the chargers , use Google and use it lots, that goes for everything, just because you found part "X" from Joe business look deep and makes phone calls, when coparing apples to apples my primary interest is price. I am also concerned about the seller and his company but generally speaking SHOP AROUND!.
> Brian


So were you sworn to secrecy or are you going to let us know where and how much?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I am still workin it so far down to 83 bucks on the chargers, hoping for 70 will keep ya posted,, same as the batteries ,,, they retail for 189.00 and I am getting them for 153.00

just got to ask and shop, many people are willing to wheel and deal in todays times , just don't settle for the first price and never pay retail (if avoidable)

If you really want to know where PM me,,, That is perhaps not fair to the vendor.

Brian


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

rctous said:


> I am still workin it so far down to 83 bucks on the chargers, hoping for 70 will keep ya posted,, same as the batteries ,,, they retail for 189.00 and I am getting them for 153.00
> 
> just got to ask and shop, many people are willing to wheel and deal in todays times , just don't settle for the first price and never pay retail (if avoidable)
> 
> ...


If the vendor supports you with lower prices, it will help the EV community to know who the vendor is so they can also support those who support EV'ers!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I agree to a point if they were interested in lowering the prices then you would think that they would do that from the start, everything is negotiable, I made a deal with the batteries with the vendor that I would palce his name website etc. on the car when finished so that helped the price as well if the batteries work well I will post a link from my web site to inform others, Its not always just the price but " what can you do for me" as well. As for the chargers probably not a big deal as I ordered 10 of them so naturally he was able to offer me a better price. When discussing prices with vendors look at it as a two way street,

I also wound up with a Logisystem controller for 1/2 price as the vendor needs some A123 battery packs for his bike so it turned out to be a retail swap. All I am saying is try to work them and show them how it benifits them as well as you.

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Brian, I went ahead and ordered a Logisystem controller also... still waiting for parts, though. All are going to be palleted and shipped together, so we're waiting for NetGain to ship my motor to him.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> Brian, I went ahead and ordered a Logisystem controller also... still waiting for parts, though. All are going to be palleted and shipped together, so we're waiting for NetGain to ship my motor to him.


Ya I looked at the controller and decided it looks like a pretty darn good one
let me know when ya need your dc to dc converter,, I can hook you up!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

to darn hot here to work ( thats my excuse any way) my real job has been keeping me busy ( good thing) controller ships tomorrow yee haww and today I ordered the 2/0 welding cable off ebay for 3 bucks a foot. I got 25 feet each red and black. also ordered the 2/0 terminals from this link that some one here posted http://www.delcity.net/delcity/serv...hildid=92199&page=1&tabset=1&pageitem=2&new=y still 1.89 each gonna build a crimp tool based of a sugestion from here as well by cutting a socket in half ( I will send pics of this it should be super simple and very effective), it is going to come down to the wait for the batteries but thats OK. I will start to order guages , shunts, contactors etc but need to find some good deals on them.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Is there any reason not to use these fuses to protect the wire coming from the rear packs to the front of the car?? I see you can also spen a ton of money on fuses, I don't anticipate using 500 amps but ????

http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/fu-ane-500.htm

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

since1969 said:


> Brian, finally got around to really poring through this thread for guidance and inspiration. You've got another fan, and I'll repeat everyone's thanks for documenting so well and carefully. From a guy in early r&d mode, it's a story like this that makes it all seem possible. -Scott


Scott some how I missed this post of yours ,, THANKS a lot!!!!!

I must say I am having a great time doing this and if we all learn something it will be great. I have learned a ton from this forum, it is the only one I even look at,, I started on another one (for a day) and have stuck to this one. I apprieciate all the calls I have gotten from you guys and love to talk about the car, If anyone does want to chat about it feel free to call me at 800-728-6976 or 913-648-0696 preferably after 6:00 PM.

I ordered the Amp meter , volt meter and the shunt a few minutes ago, keeping it analog for ease of viewing at a glance.


Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Dude, you just gave out your phone number to the entire world 
You might want to rethink that.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Dude, you just gave out your phone number to the entire world
> You might want to rethink that.


and an 800# at that

brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Where did you get your meters from? I'm trying to source just the right gauges to match the style of my vehicle ('65 Spitfire). I can find the gauges, but I can't get ahold of the vendors by email or phone. Very frustrating!!!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

from ev parts inc
But I cancelled it because they do not have the amp meters till the end of August so now I look again
http://www.evparts.com/cat-Instruments+...+Street+Vehicle.htm#71

let me know what you find
Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

I have gauges and shunt on backorder with EVA myself. They're telling me they might be in late next week.....

More waiting...................


Ben


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, I just called up http://westach.com, and they were very helpful. I am getting upside down back-lit gauges (the needle is on the bottom half so they are easier to see from above) and I got just the right values for lead acid SOC (118V-126V). They even have them with a chrome bezel, so it will fit well with the chrome speedo and tach already in the car. Perfect. I might be paying a bit more, but I think it's worth it for just the right component. It'll take about a month to manufacture, but I'm waiting on the motor anyway. Give them a call, they were very helpful over the phone.

-D


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Brian- try ev-supply.com

Ask for Carlo


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Do you know the range on the ev supply volt meters? I am finding some that are 120 vdc -150vdc or like 100 - 130 vcd and neither is good for my 120 volt system I will call then perhaps

Thanks guys
Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Brian,

They have more than what is on the site. Carlo and I went over some alternative options for gauges when I placed my order. I decided to go with a single gauge that does it all, but he has some options on analog gauges as well.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

total retract


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Finally got the front battery tray in,, what a bugger it was but it is rock solid now and very low for excellent CG. I took a picture of the headlight motor as I had to rotate it 90 degrees to raise it up an inch,, I have built all the battey trays based on dimensions from the battery manufacturer so I really hope its accurate info. Got the body work done ( all I am doing any ways ) rebuilt the passenger door and now the window works like a charm, tightened it all up put in all the clips and now when ya close the door it sounds like a Mercedes (well it sounds good) Also got the 2/0 wire just today but waiting for the lugs ( hopefully tomorrow then I will build my crimp tool for that)
Thats the latest.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

more pics for the car


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Nice rack! 

Which made me think aluminum. Wouldn't that save a lot of weight to build the racks in aluminum or is the weight of the racks not more than you can ignore it compared to the weight of all the lead?

Of course, I don't have a clue how to veld aluminum more than that I've been recommended using TIG if I ever try...


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

pro's and cons with alum or steel, steel is stronger for the size and here is one are where strength matters, I am set up for welding alum but have not had much experience yet, the price of aluminum to do this would probably me 3-4 times more as well, it is rock solid in there which is what I wanted. the weight savings would be about 30-40 % with aluminum, I never weighed the rack but it isn't that bad (10-15 pounds), I find that I am knocking out quite a bit of weight just by cutting off all the extra brackets and stuff that is not necessary especially the exaust brackets that are welded to the frame. If skill and cost was not an option YES I would do aluminum.

Brian


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> pro's and cons with alum or steel, steel is stronger for the size and here is one are where strength matters, I am set up for welding alum but have not had much experience yet, the price of aluminum to do this would probably me 3-4 times more as well, it is rock solid in there which is what I wanted. the weight savings would be about 30-40 % with aluminum, I never weighed the rack but it isn't that bad (10-15 pounds), I find that I am knocking out quite a bit of weight just by cutting off all the extra brackets and stuff that is not necessary especially the exaust brackets that are welded to the frame. If skill and cost was not an option YES I would do aluminum.
> 
> Brian


Fair enough. Sounds like something I might leave for EV number 2 (if there ever will be one) together with plans on using AC-motors etc. First one will definitely be following the KISS-rule, otherwise I will never finish it.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

been alot of KISS going on over here, and agreed the next one may be the time to learn to weld the alum,, I have all the equipment but the roll of alum gets stuck in the long mig handle I deally I need to buy the hand held spool holder thing for alum, but at 500-600 bucks not in the budget right yet, to many other ev parts still to acquire. I do plan on doing an AC system next as well.

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

May be a silly question BUT Im about to price some metal to build my battery racks. What size angle are you using to build your boxes/trays?

Thanks,
Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> May be a silly question BUT Im about to price some metal to build my battery racks. What size angle are you using to build your boxes/trays?
> 
> ...



Not at all a silly question
the angle iron has 1.5" legs and its 3/16 thick

read that some where as a minimum so used it

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*The Terminal Schmacker*

Well my 2/0 terminals just showed up so I whipped up this crude schmacker for crimping. the first one was a bit rough and had to adjust (grind) the sockets down for better (lower more compression) on the wire . The second one was a breeze and worked pretty good, not sure what the strength of this should be but it held me from the ceiling in the garage. its crude but very effective.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*

made a quick mod to the schmasher I welded a beed inside the socket part to add an indent, I figured it couldn't hurt. The connection is very secure.

Brian


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*



rctous said:


> made a quick mod to the schmasher I welded a beed inside the socket part to add an indent, I figured it couldn't hurt. The connection is very secure.
> 
> Brian


Very clever of you. I think I'm going to steal that solution, possibly improving it by velding the socket to a cheap bench mounted steel cutter. I can buy the one in the attachment for about $65 (add a dollar or two for the socket), not too bad price and should make crimping a breeze.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*

I can't figure out what's going on with your crimper. It looks like you cut a socket in two and welded to an odd shape of plate steel. Are you putting the lug into the socket halves and pressing them or hitting them with a hammer or what?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*

the odd piece of steel is whats left of the tranny plate this was (and still is R&D) so yes one 1/2 of the socket is welded to odd shaped plate and the other half is welded to the flat steel, place the lug in the socket in the bottom plate hold the upper 1/2 of the socket on the flat steel and schmack it with a 5 pound hammer, you actually do not need to hit it as hard as I thought, when I do another one I will take better pics and show more details, got some carbon impregnated dielectric that will be here thursday, This particular cable is the one that goes on the motor so it will be easy to replace later if necessary.

Controller comes tomorrow (so excited)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*



Qer said:


> Very clever of you. I think I'm going to steal that solution, possibly improving it by velding the socket to a cheap bench mounted steel cutter. I can buy the one in the attachment for about $65 (add a dollar or two for the socket), not too bad price and should make crimping a breeze.


not sure it matters too much on the socket but probably best to get an impact socket but with all the heat with welding it it probably took out alot of the temper any way, also I built up the weld high on both side of the socket to help support it so it wouldn't split or bend open,,, I hasn't budged yet!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*

Here are some better pics I should have posted in the first place, I did not schmack this one as I want to wait for the dielectric grease

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*New controller arrives*

Got the controller yesturday and the slpit loom and the conductive grease showed up today, ordered the ceramic heater a couple days ago and it should be here tomorrow
getting in lots of parts but the weather here is expected to be 100 + not counting the heat index, I may do a bit of work but its too hot (whinning) The controller looks pretty cool, it is the logisystem 72-120 v 550 amp version.


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: New controller arrives*

What type of heater did you order and where did you order it from? That's something I just realized today that I forgot to plan for.....

oh, and hey.... no whining


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

Oh ! nice controller ! May I come over and touch it ? J.W. ps thats just like what I want !


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: New controller arrives*



dpringle said:


> What type of heater did you order and where did you order it from? That's something I just realized today that I forgot to plan for.....
> 
> oh, and hey.... no whining


This is the heater I got but I got it from another place ( JR sometning ) for about 2 bucks cheaper
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HZ-315-Quick-Ceramic-Heater/dp/B0006I9WHS


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*

here is the place I got the heater from

here is a ceramic heater I just ordered

http://www.jr.com/honeywell/pe/HNW_HZ315/

I like the adjustable temp knob on this one i will move it to the dash to be able to control it ( doubt if I will ever turn it down any though) Mainly it will be used to defrost (keep the fog off) the front windshield, now just lookin for that special relay ANY THOUGHTS????? I guess the standard Bosch type is not the best choice

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ww321q said:


> Oh ! nice controller ! May I come over and touch it ? J.W. ps thats just like what I want !


Yes you can touch it? It feels pretty cool. I am working on the mount as we speak ( ok waiting for the paint to dry ) It does not mention keeping it totally isolated from the car but i am isolating it any way. Adding 3 small fans under it, mounting it to alum and everything. Should be pretty neat, I am doing it on a small board above the tranny and I will not be covering up the motor like I see a lot, I want to be able to see it. Any way pics in the AM. OK I will add the pics I have taken so far.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Here are som pre lim pics of the controller mount, I believe it will work well and ya all will like(let me know by the way)


Brian


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

wow dude. Wanna come over and do my metal work?


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Hmm, my Logisystems controller only has one screw in the side. But I see yours is 550amps where mine is 750. Sucker's heavy isnt it!

Also, who recommended the conductive grease? I havent heard of that yet.


Ben


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Also, who recommended the conductive grease? I havent heard of that yet.


Ben[/QUOTE]

Not real sure where it was recommended but to me it only makes sence??? Is there any reason not to use it? There are several out there but the ones at the Auto parts stores only had a gel that was lithium or silicone based, this is both carbon (conductive) and silicone ,,, must make and maintain a better electrical connection over time ,,,,especially if its shrunk with heat shrink,, keep the oxygen away and corosion will not occur. Any little thing you can do all adds up,, and at 13 bucks per tube its pretty cheap! By the way it is hard to get off the skin so it really sticks well.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

OK i couldn't wait to mount the fans so I did ,, The paint was a bit wet but not bad, each of these fans draws .21 amps at 12 volts so I will wire them direct to the underhood fuse box so they turn on every time the key is on the acc or the on position, acc in case I feel the need to let them stay on without the contactor being activated. I am doing the resistor ( or mabay a light bulb) for the controller and it will function off the acc position of the switch so when ya first get in the car you will turn the key to acc for 3-5 sec then forward the key to "ON" this will trip the contactor. Easy enough to do so I will.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*controller mounted in the car*

Well it is in the car and looks pretty darn good, very solid and cooling should work well with the fans, I used heat sink coumpound on the bottom of the controller and the alum plate, now I can start some minor wiring, after cleaning the pool and cutting the grass.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

got the guages and shunt today need to do some more reading on the shunt though looks like the popular hook up is on the negative wire? any comments are apprieciated,, also addes door lock actuators so I can have a keyless entry, got he set off e-bay for 40 bucks or so with freight, works great, unlocking doors is something I have not done for many years and with the kids in it all the time it makes sence to add them. Still pretty darn hot here so took a break with the kids and went swimming. I will go out there later and see what I can accomplish. Hopefully tackle the mount of them as well the ceramic heater showed up , tore it apart and its pretty tiny should work well in the old ac core. Will post pics on that later as well

Brian


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*



Qer said:


> Very clever of you. I think I'm going to steal that solution, possibly improving it by velding the socket to a cheap bench mounted steel cutter. I can buy the one in the attachment for about $65 (add a dollar or two for the socket), not too bad price and should make crimping a breeze.


Are you intending to use the the steel cutter lever as your crimper? Because I don't think you'll get enough pressure to crimp the lugs securely with that setup, you probably need more leverage. Most people weld the socket halves to a set of bolt cutters.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

What did you use as a "board" to mount your controller and metal sink to?

Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> What did you use as a "board" to mount your controller and metal sink to?
> 
> Ben


The board that is painted white is marine plywood (1/2") ( lots of primer and paint) the actual controller is mounted to a 3/16" piece of alum suspended by the 4 controller monuting bolts lifting it off the board about a 1/2". The 3 fans pull air downward not upward.

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm still trying to decide what kind of material to use for my component board so I thought I'd ask what you used. I just cant get my mind to accept using wood in the engine bay so I'm looking for alternatives.

Ben


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Looking good, Brian. When's the test drive!!!!?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Ya I went through it all as well ABS palstic was a close choice as you can get it in 1/2" thicknesses but the heat may cause issues and warp (not good) fiberglass another thought, but when it came down to gettin er done wood was cheap easy to work with and I am positive it will last for years with no issues,, I also made sure it does not look like wood, I did alot of sanding to make it perfectly smooth.

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Looking good, Brian. When's the test drive!!!!?


it couldn't be soon enough, batteries are still at least 4 weeks away,,, probably a good thing as it allows me to spend more time on more detail without getting too excited ( don't think I am not excited as I am very excited,, can't wait !!!!!!!! You'll certainly be the first to know!!!

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Made the bezel for the Ampmeter and the Voltmeter, siliconed it into the dash so hopefully dry tomorrow for mounting the gauges. Also mounted the cermic heater into the area where the AC condensor was, it is mounted right in front of the fan so there will be plenty of circulation around it so it will not overheat and melt its plastic enclosure. I saw another post of some one who actually mounted it directly inside the AC condensor,, I thought of doing that but that unit itself is pretty heavy (3 -5 pounds I would say) and I just didn't see the reason to keep the extra weight.. Awaiting for silicone on that to dry as well. I am expecting the motor tomorrow for the vaccumm brakes and the 600amp fuses. Getting down to the end of this. In all actaulity it has not been too bad other than the temperature around here while working but it should be cooling off a bit here the next few days.


----------



## dudette (Jul 17, 2008)

Looks great,Brian
dudette,,,


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dudette said:


> Looks great,Brian
> dudette,,,



THANKS MOM!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Brian,

I think you're thinking of KiwiEV's implant of a ceramic element in the heater core.

If you put it in where the AC parts are at, you'll only get airflow across it if the environmental controls are set to AC. If you set them to heat (i.e. turn the blue/red knob to red) you'll get no heat and no airflow over the heater if it's installed where the AC bits go.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ya I thought about that I will not have any variable heat it will always produce max heat from the element,, alos I can easilt do some modifting to the venting flaps as well. the multi speed fan will still function and I think the main reason will be for defrost any way ,, keeping the front windshield clear.


Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

spent tonight putting in all the ducts and the heater, finally the car is coming together. The heating element inside the AC are will work just fine, removed that control rod so the heater flap will never open to shut off the AC box, I will be wiring the heater element in conjunction with the original AC push button switch, pretty simple in that the heater fan must be on at least in the low position this will activate a neg output to a relay that will be wired to another relay that will latch (via a diode)( by latch I mean stay closed) when the AC button is pressed. I will modify the AC switch so it is momentary when pressed in in other words it will send a pulse to the latching relay to hold it in the closed position. This way every time the car is shut off , even with the heater fan left on ,the heater button ( ac button) must be pressed again to latch the relay to energize the heating element the fan must still be turned on at least to low position then the AC button needs to be pushed to latch the relay thus adding voltage to the ceramic heater. This seems like the most practical way to do this, also the AC switch has a small light that I will make work when the element is on so the driver knows. The element puts out OK heat but in hindsight to be more effective 2 of them would have been better,,,,, but I am sure it will help with keeping the fog off the windshied and provide some heat for comfort as well. Not planning on being in this car too often for more than 10 minutes most of the time.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Managed to get the control panel (as I am calling it) pre wired up today turned out pretty good this will simplify final wiring which I wil strat on this week end. Received in the vaccumm pump today for the brakes I will try to get that done this week end as well.

I am using the precharge resistor for the controller on the key "acc" switch, leave it there for 3-5 seconds then turn the key to the "on" or ignition that will trigger the contactor to close to fire everything up. 

Down to the chargers and the batteries,,, going to do some power washing of the seats , carpet , etc this week end as well, I hope they clean up nice.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> I am using the precharge resistor for the controller on the key "acc" switch, leave it there for 3-5 seconds then turn the key to the "on" or ignition that will trigger the contactor to close to fire everything up.


Are you switching the precharge resistor off when the vehicle is off?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Are you switching the precharge resistor off when the vehicle is off?



Ya it is hooked up to the ACC position on the key so yes when the key is off there is no power to the relay to energize the resistors. Is that what you are asking?

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes that's what I meant. I was involved in a discussion on the EVDL about switching the precharge resistor and I was convinced that it was not necessary to do so and that it might actually be better for the capacitors in the controller to remain charged, and therefor "fully formed". It may depend on the controller but here is a link to the discussion if you want to check it out:
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td18029835


> > >Plus, the capacitors in your controller have a limited life span. One of
> > >the things that effects this life span is how much time they spend with
> > >voltage across them. Leaving the charged 24/7 can reduce their life span
> > >significantly.
> ...


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

What a great day I had today, some days things actually just go right. I got a great start ( almost finish) on the large wiring and got 90% of the controll panel wired into the car. Got the power brake vaccumm motor mounted, see the picture I added some of the strippes insulation of the welding wire for a shock absorber,, works pretty well but the pump sure is noisy. Anothe picture shows the inside of a 4 " cap I am using for additional vaccuum reserve, I cut this part out of a 3" round pipe then heated it with a heat gun to flatten it out, now I feel better when I thread in the brass vaccuum fittings they will have more to "bite" to otherwise the plastic is only about 1/8" thick ( I am usung the thin wall light stuff. I did see they had heavier end caps at the harware store but they were 5 x the money so I did this. I am letting the cement dry overnight. I make my reservoir 2 feet long 4" diameter I hope it adds more reserve and the pump runs less. It will be mounted under the car where the exaust was (the hump). I will take pics tomorrow when I get it mounted, Pump for the brakes does automatically turn off which is great, as I said all in all a pretty good day.

brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Be careful when you screw your fittings into the PVC cap. I did something similar and either over tightened the fittings or under drilled the holes, or both, and ended up cracking the PVC


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Be careful when you screw your fittings into the PVC cap. I did something similar and either over tightened the fittings or under drilled the holes, or both, and ended up cracking the PVC


Just went out and drilled and screwed them in, seems to have worked like a charm, I also added an "O" ring as well, I will take pics tomorrow they are very solid and I am sure they will not leak( fingers crossed). 

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*

And does it ever suck, it collapsed my thin wall pvc pipe to a pancake, you can see the after picture. Of course it looked so good at the beginning though. Insted of going with the thicker walled PVC I decided to add some doughnut supports inside of it instead. I added two on the internal about a 1/3 of the way then one at the end where I removed the end cap. Went out and bought a new end cap put it back in the car and yeee hawwww no more collapse,, the thick walled stuff is just so heavy I refused to add that much weight, I have seen many using shorter pieces but I wanted more reserve and I have quite a bit of reserve now.

Vaccuumed the car out and I am ready to start cleaning the carpets and seats and get them back in the car, then the wheels and get it back on the ground, hoping to acquire chargers next week and will call on the status of the batteries as well. Was a short but pretty good day, off to the EV meeting at 1:30 today.

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*

You're making me look bad. Glad everything is going so well for you. I just got my motor and controller yesterday so now the work really begins for me. 

Figure out the controller yet? You weren't kidding about that "manual". Pretty lean in the information department, but I like that you can limit ramp and draw. Nice.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Mounting the Pot Box*

Decided to mount the pot box to the actual pedal assembly , probably took out 3-4 pounds worth of cable and extra stuff that was not necessary, works very smooth. Super easy to access if I ever need to

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Good idea. Should keep it cleaner as well, since sometimes the pots collect dirt and stop working properly.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Good idea. Should keep it cleaner as well, since sometimes the pots collect dirt and stop working properly.


Yes I totally agree and any maintenance is simple as is total replacement if ever necessary


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*



dpringle said:


> You're making me look bad. Glad everything is going so well for you. I just got my motor and controller yesterday so now the work really begins for me.
> 
> Figure out the controller yet? You weren't kidding about that "manual". Pretty lean in the information department, but I like that you can limit ramp and draw. Nice.


Ya it all looks very simple really I just am on a need to know basis right now and until I add voltage to it I do not need to know,, I did read through it a few times and it is very programmable and will take a few days of driving to tweak it exactly how you want it. The after battery break in re tweak again and add more current,, yes seams to be a very nice controller.

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*

I'm jealous, Brian... I wish I was as far along in my work as you are with yours. I've been riding my little 24v e-scooter to get a little EV motivation to keep me going on the truck.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*

pick a project for the day and get er done, I am at the stage of enjoying the stages I am going through on the car,, I really like the tedious wiring and integration of parts, the motivation is simple (the finish line) and all the advantages that will come along with the car,, I am pretty syked about it all.

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*

we power washed the seats ,and the carpet the other day (Sunday) the seats turned out quite nice but the carpet is hopeless it looks aweful, so I ordered a new carpet, not a bad price at 122 bucks and 12 bucks for shipping will have that in about a week then put the interior together. I also ordered a stereo (cd player) and a dash to kit install it in.

Also had to add a relay to the reverse lights, I must have cut or hid very well the harness that plugged into the trans for the switch for the reverse lights. So I added a relay to the wires and the trans and rewired the reverse lights, pretty easy and I figured they would probably check that at the inspection.

Brian


----------



## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: The Terminal Schmacker*



rctous said:


> not sure it matters too much on the socket but probably best to get an impact socket but with all the heat with welding it it probably took out alot of the temper any way, also I built up the weld high on both side of the socket to help support it so it wouldn't split or bend open,,, I hasn't budged yet!
> 
> Brian


Here is something I learned from an experienced cable builder. If possible both crimp and solder the cable ends on the wires. The solder will protect from corosion inside the crimp. As well as giving better contact, lower resistance, better mechanical strength, resistance to vibration, longer life. I have a saltwater boat, and I had constant problems with electrical connections until I started doing this.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

On the other hand I've also seen people say don't solder because the solid mass of solder creates a stress point where it stops and may lead to cable breakage over time. As I work in a fresh water marina I don't see much corrosion from crimped cables.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> On the other hand I've also seen people say don't solder because the solid mass of solder creates a stress point where it stops and may lead to cable breakage over time. As I work in a fresh water marina I don't see much corrosion from crimped cables.


That is exactly my experience, yes. I've seen it a bit too often to dare to combine solder and crimping, especially when it's absolutely positive that the wire will move. In a boat that's probably not a big problem (at least not a sailing boat) but in a car I'd say that you'll have to expect constant vibrations while driving.

Some connectors are filled with Vaseline (or something similar) to make sure the connection is unaffected by water or dirt, if possible I'd recommend that instead. I've used it with great success in trailer connectors that usually get a lot of dirt and salt (remember: they salt Swedish roads winter time) in it and eventually they gets short circuited in very interesting ways, like the turn signal and main lights getting interconnected. That gives VERY bizarre results when you switch on the turn signal...

So perhaps a good way would be to smear Vaseline on both the lug and the wires before crimping. That would keep the moist out and I doubt it'll affect the connection more than in a positive way. However, it might be a good idea to verify my claim before relying entirely on it.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

This is the stuff I used and feel pretty good about the connection and the anti corosion effect it will have, I gooped it inside the terminal then twisted the wire lots then "schmacked" it down,, of course then it is shrink wrapped as well to keep out the aire , water etc, I hope (and doubt) I will have any issues any time soon,, but I agree in a salt water environment you could never do enough.

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

what about dielectric grease? I was considering using this on my battery connections.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> what about dielectric grease? I was considering using this on my battery connections.


definately use something, anything is better than nothing,, I just think this stuff is better because it also is made with carbon and conducts well.. only 12.95 a tube

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> definately use something, anything is better than nothing,, I just think this stuff is better because it also is made with carbon and conducts well.. only 12.95 a tube
> 
> Brian


I disagree. Dielectric grease is nonconductive, which means it will cause resistance between contacts. Not what you want. You could make your connections and then smear dielectric grease over them but I would not put it inside.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I disagree. Dielectric grease is nonconductive, which means it will cause resistance between contacts. Not what you want. You could make your connections and then smear dielectric grease over them but I would not put it inside.


He is correct!! Here is a line I copied

"Dielectric grease is a non-conductive grease. Because it is non-conductive it does not enhance the flow electrical current. Electrical conductors should not be coated with dielectric grease prior to being mated."


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*spring assisted emergency disconnect*

Now I thought this was pretty darn cool but you may have a different opinion. I have seen how a few people add a cable inside the car that hooks up to the disconnect and they yank on it an the disconnect comes apart,, well I will still be using a cable (bicycle cable probably) but it will be hooked up to the Ring on the gernade pin (for lack of a better word). It requires very little effort to remove it then wham the connection comes apart immediatly. To re set it just stretch it back into the mating plug and then insert gernade pin. Any way it works and that part is now almost done. 

I put the wheels back on the car today of coursehad to pull a nail out of a tire and plug it, bought 2 new front wiper blades and assemblies, still need one for the rear . Ordered the carpet for the trunk that I will be customizing, ordered an Alpine stereo to install, and also ordered a dash cover,, the dash on this car is badly cracked in several places, so cover it or replace it, (replacement is not an option). Getting closer!!!!

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: spring assisted emergency disconnect*

That's cool. I like how you used the spring to assist with the emergency disconnect.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

*Re: spring assisted emergency disconnect*

Simpler than that it doesn't get. 

Now you can connect it to the unused clutch pedal which will give you two advantages:


The leg is stronger than the arm so disconnecting the whole thing even if it arcs will be a breeze.
You'll learn VERY FAST that you shouldn't use the clutch when you change gear.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: spring assisted emergency disconnect*

I already cut out the clutch pedal,,i ( heck that was 2-3 pounds) it takes almost no effort to pull the pin so the arm in this case will be strong enough. Getting the cable this AM and will do final testing.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: spring assisted emergency disconnect*

Got the cable for the emergency disconnect ran into the car. I ran it under where the stereo will be, need to mak a knob or handle still for it. It works awesome very little effort to release the connector, re setting very easy under the hood.
notice I attached the cable to the Alum angle with black thread and CA glue, never underestimate the holding power of CA glue, it made this attachment very simple. heading off to the hardware store to see what I can find for a handle.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: spring assisted emergency disconnect*

couldn't find a handle I liked so I made one,, turned out pretty slick for a chunk of aluminum to start with.

brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: spring assisted emergency disconnect*

figured I'd spend a few minutes getting the house ready for the car as well. This is 220V with and adaptor for a std extension cord.

Brian


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## electrod (Aug 15, 2008)

So where is the brake vacuum pump powered from. It might not be wise to have the disconnect pull the plug on your brakes !


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

electrod said:


> So where is the brake vacuum pump powered from. It might not be wise to have the disconnect pull the plug on your brakes !



The brake vaccumm runs off the 12V system so it will always have the 12 volt battery for back up,, but thanks for mentioning that!!!

Brian


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Nice handle. Kudos to you.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

xrotaryguy said:


> Nice handle. Kudos to you.



Thanks! Man


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Yep, I agree. Nice handiwork and everything. One thing though; is that tape that holds the wire in place on that 90 degree angle thingie (ok, ran out of technical terms here, sorry)? I mean, it feels that it would be bad if the tape gets old and when you pull the disconnect in the future the tape unravels instead of the pin getting pulled out...

Wouldn't some kind of metal support be better?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Qer said:


> One thing though; is that tape that holds the wire in place on that 90 degree angle thingie (ok, ran out of technical terms here, sorry)?





> Black thread and CA glue


Unusual, but I guess it can work. Sort of a poor mans fiberglass


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Qer said:


> Yep, I agree. Nice handiwork and everything. One thing though; is that tape that holds the wire in place on that 90 degree angle thingie (ok, ran out of technical terms here, sorry)? I mean, it feels that it would be bad if the tape gets old and when you pull the disconnect in the future the tape unravels instead of the pin getting pulled out...
> 
> Wouldn't some kind of metal support be better?


Ya that is not tape but thread and CA glue (cyanoacrylate) like super glue,, believe me this is so strong its pretty unbelievable,, we use this technique quite a bit in the RC world for various purposes, this will never rot and certainly never fail,, agreed tape would be a bad idea. I probably wrapped it about 300 times with the thread then thin CA so it soaks in to the thread,, some do this and use epoxy glue,, either will work very well.

there is not really very much pull or strain on the cable housing either, most of the force would be downward and this will never break from that.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*AC plug*

Got the AC plug monted under the gas cover. And ran the wire for the chargers to the front and the rear, 6 chargers will reside in the rear and 4 will reside up front,, doing the final stuff now which is I think the funnest part,, been going through in my head all the wireing I have done to make sure it is all right,, ran some tests as well with meters but!!!! I am sure it is all OK.
Stereo never showed up today but that is OK as I built a battery rack for a nother EV friend of mine just for giggles I will show that PIC as well,, it is primed in the "RUST BULLET" primer,, and yes this primer is unbelievable,, it dries harder than steel,, Next will paint this black and reinstall in friends truck.

brian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Don't mind me, just subscribing.....


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Got my new carpet today so I got that installed with the fron seats and some other misc panels. looks like batteries will be here about the 15th of next month which will be OK by me I expect I will ahve the money for them by then, ordered the 45 amp dc-dc convertor will have Friday or monday, Stereo will be here tomorrow then finish off the dash area,,, looks like a car again!

Been cleaning the windows and had to start with acetone to get the over spray off first, they look fine now.

Will post interior pics tomorrow

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian, You are just amazing. I finally have most of my parts and the batts are being delivered tomorrow so I'm ready to actually start on my car. Your build is very inspiring!


Ben in SC


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

So you collected your parts without putting them on/ in the car?? I ordered most of the stuff as I needed it? afforded I should say. at least the batterirs are the last thing I need but still trying to scrape up 850 bucks for the 10 chargers. Keep us posted on your convert and don't hesitate to call me if you think I can help you out.

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Yep, I just came in from pulling the transmission to cut the pilot shaft off and marked my adapter plate. Heading to machine shop in the morning to get a trim. I already have my battery boxes mocked up and plan to build those this weekend. Hope it goes together pretty fast now.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, you're good for my motivation though 


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

no high jacking worries ,,glad to see its coming along hope ya have a nearby hardware store for plenty of various nuts and bolts, heck I think I go daily.

Ya once the motor and tranny are back in the rest willl go very quick. ( well mabey not quick but that is definately the worst part ( at least I think it was)of the whole conversion )


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*12 volt battery,,,,,,, Mount*

Here what I came up with for the 12 volt system battery for the car,, DC converter will mount where factory battery was.

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: 12 volt battery,,,,,,, Mount*

Lookin' good, Brian.

Any ETA on the batteries and/or when we get to see the test drive video complete with a big-as-your-face EV Grin?


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

I know that I held off on installing things until the motor/tranny were in. Otherwise I had no solid idea of what room I had. Plus I wanted to mount some things above the tranny like you did. BTW my motor and tranny are at the machine shop. Found someone who said he would only charge me $150 for the coupler, spacers, and adapter plate. Too good of a deal to pass up.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Wow. That is a deal. How many shops did you have to call before you found someone willing to do it for such a reasonable price, and how close are they to me! I'll send my stuff to someone qualified if they'll do it for $150


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: 12 volt battery,,,,,,, Mount*



TX_Dj said:


> Lookin' good, Brian.
> 
> Any ETA on the batteries and/or when we get to see the test drive video complete with a big-as-your-face EV Grin?


shipping to me on the 15th next MONTH

basically a funding issue they will be ready in 3 weeks

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> I know that I held off on installing things until the motor/tranny were in. Otherwise I had no solid idea of what room I had. Plus I wanted to mount some things above the tranny like you did. BTW my motor and granny are at the machine shop. Found someone who said he would only charge me $150 for the coupler, spacers, and adapter plate. Too good of a deal to pass up.



Dave that is an awesome deal can you pass on your machinest to others?


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Wow. That is a deal. How many shops did you have to call before you found someone willing to do it for such a reasonable price, and how close are they to me! I'll send my stuff to someone qualified if they'll do it for $150


The shop is in Palmyra (near Hershey) Pennsylvania.

The shop is named Enhanced Technologies, Inc., and Darren told me that anyone who is interested can contact him and they will be glad to work with you. Obviously, the price I was quoted was an estimate. I'll let you all know how it goes and what the bottom line is when it's done. Oh, and he promised to email me pictures on each part that they fabricate so that I can include it in my blog. (link in my sigline).

I didn't share with Darren what other shops are charging. I'm sure he can figure it out, though. He said that most shops intentionally overcharge for 'one-off' parts because they take a long time to set up and are made only once. Most shops cater primarily to production runs, whereas this shop does both. He seemed pretty excited about working on an EV. I'm sure if you had a CAD drawing of what you need, it would make things easier than shipping a tranny and motor.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Mounting radio and "O SH*&^&$^ knob*

Well this was pretty cool but really quite a bit of work as you can see. If you look at the parts closely you will see what went into this. I did not want the handle to just be flopping around under the radio so I had to make it spring loaded, as you see I was successful, but the bic pen spring was not sufficient so I went and got a bigger one.the handle stays up nicely. radio sounds pretty good as well. Now to finish the center console.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Mounting radio and "O SH*&^&$^ handle*

a couple more pics of the handle and radio


----------



## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

odd request:

could you post a short list of the various types of nuts, bolts, and various assortments that youve purchased., meaning, if you find yourself needing certain things over and over, what might those be?

im thinking of getting a large number of number 8 bolts of maybe 1 and 1 1/2 inches, etc etc, but dont really know what would save me a few trips to Lowes.

thanks, and awesome write ups!


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Mounting radio and "O SH*&^&$^ knob*

The handle install looks great but you got someones UGLY foot in that last pic. It really detracts from the elegance!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Mounting radio and "O SH*&^&$^ Handle*



TelnetManta said:


> The handle install looks great but you got someones UGLY foot in that last pic. It really detracts from the elegance!


Darn foot it keeps following me around


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

chamilun said:


> odd request:
> 
> could you post a short list of the various types of nuts, bolts, and various assortments that youve purchased., meaning, if you find yourself needing certain things over and over, what might those be?
> 
> ...


I wished there was a list that I could produce , but I used such a variety, like 1/2" for the tranny to motor mount went back a few times just for those as I changed the length on a couple to add other brackets etc. Used alot of 3/8" and 5/16" aprox 1 1/2" length,, buy long and cut them if you are not sure. Save all the bolts from the ICE removal etc as they are hardened and usually re usable. I am fortunate that we have a Westlake ACE about 1 mile from here and they have everything I ever need. Look at getting split loom on line its much cheaper and I had a very hard time finding 1/4" loom,, thge larger 5/8" red is a very specialialty item but on the web as well.

Brian


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

thanks Brian.

after my adapter/coupler arrives, I am ready to follow your path.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

chamilun said:


> thanks Brian.
> 
> after my adapter/coupler arrives, I am ready to follow your path.


good luck and have fun with it!!!!

BRIAN


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*guages*

had a couple issues with the gauge cluster, 1 was the stupid "check engine" light well duh I checked it and it was gone!!! LOL, and the blinker light indicators would stay slightly lit and blink in the opposite direction of the turn signal,, so took out all the bulbs ,, lubed them with the carbon grease put them all back in,,, but same thing, I know it is a ground somewhere so off came the dash cluster, very simple actually but procrastinated too long about removing it. Last night at 11:00 I went out and removed the guages tracked down the issue ( no ground on the wire feeding the cluster for the signal lights, I soldered a wire to the factory ground then screwed it to metal for a good ground, poof problem solved , this also made the stock voltmeter work as well (which is important) also removed the bulb for the check engine light, its all done and works great, took about an hour, and it is done.

Brian


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: guages*

cool. After we got off the phone? Couldn't sleep, huh?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: guages*

no I couldn't,, hey why not use 2 tread mill motors for your car? The power steering and the AC????


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Been spending some time this weekend doing some deep cleaning and the car is looking pretty good ( compared to what I had), The wheels on the passenger side were "curbed" pretty bad and chewed up so I was able to grind most of the ugly off and the end resault is nice. I made the center caps from some abs plastic (cut with a jig saw) and added some painted letters "EV to them. They sure look better than doing nothing and the car had only one factory center cap when I got it and I could not find any at the junk yard and was not about to order them from the dealer, I could only imagine the cost. But all in all pretty much done all I can do at this point, the DC to DC will be here tomorrow and I will add that to the system,, still very excited to get er done!

Notice the ride height of the car? I think it looks pretty darn OK for no batteries yet about 500 pounds in the rear and 320 or so up front should bring it right where it needs to be, I hope the rear does not stick up too high

Brian


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

I may have missed it so forgive me if this is a dumb question. Did you replace the springs to compensate for the batteries? I'm beginning to look at options for my BMW and wondered what you did (if anything).



Ben


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Oops, I found my answer on page 3. Now to find some springs of my own 

Ben


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

look into air shocks if there is any way to add them to the car its a pretty cheap alternative,, or a junk yard will certainly have springs just get the same diameter from a heavier car,, you should be able to cut them down to size if necessary.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Oops, I found my answer on page 3. Now to find some springs of my own
> 
> Ben


wow check this out

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=coil+springs&_sacat=See-All-Categories

brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

WOW no shortage there. Now I need to find out what my stock size is. Google here I come.......


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> WOW no shortage there. Now I need to find out what my stock size is. Google here I come.......


what car are you converting telnetmanta?


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

93 BMW 318i

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/bmw-318-ev-conversion-19356.html


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Just ordered my chargers from Larry at 

http://www.chargingchargers.com/chargers/12volt/jac1212.html

this guy is awesome, if you are looking for these he has good stock.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Registering my car in Kansas*

Well you won't believe this ( because I still can't) but the car I bought is already a Kansas registered car and all I need to do is wait in the line and get plates!!!!!! They do not care that I took out the ICE and tossed in a electric motor, I already paid my state sales tax, so it will cost like nothing for me. I called the high way patrol first and they said I need to do nothing, so in disbeliefe I went to the DMV, waited for an hour to ask a question,, and sure enough I need to do nothing, no inspection no nothing,, I could have called my insurance agent from the DMV and had him fax me the proof of insurance but I was not prepared to wait 2 hours in the lines there. I still can't believe it but I am pretty happy to say the least. 


By the way the insurance for a year is 200 bucks for just liability and 7000.00 coverage ( colision ,full coverage etc. )is 300.00 bucks pretty darn cheap I tell ya.

Brian


----------



## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

are you buying multiple chargers to charge individually?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

chamilun said:


> are you buying multiple chargers to charge individually?


Not totally sure what your question means,, but each battery will have its own charger attached to it, all chargers will be wired to a common 110/220VAC plug. All 10 cahrgers will charge all 10 batteries at the same time,, I assume this helps to answer your question?

Brian


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Hey, just letting you guys know... the cost on my adapter and coupler is definitely going to be higher. Cost of the steel plate alone (without cutting) is $182. We should still be under $300 for everything. Overall, not too bad, but not as cheap as $150 either. Oh well. That's what happens when you get a verbal estimate without letting the shop have time to price things out...

Still in my original budget range for the machine shop work.

cool tidbit... he may get me a video of the CNC cutting my parts!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> Hey, just letting you guys know... the cost on my adapter and coupler is definitely going to be higher. Cost of the steel plate alone (without cutting) is $182. We should still be under $300 for everything. Overall, not too bad, but not as cheap as $150 either. Oh well. That's what happens when you get a verbal estimate without letting the shop have time to price things out...
> 
> Still in my original budget range for the machine shop work.
> 
> cool tidbit... he may get me a video of the CNC cutting my parts!


what steel plate? between the motor and trans? I thought that was alum? if it is steel what thickness is it? a 1/4" steel plate her cost me 30 bucks you must mean alum?

Brian


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

I think he said it was steel. I need to check. We did discuss both at one point.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

that is a very high price for a piece of plate steel and certainly you do not want it to be more than 1/4" thick as the weight would be ridiculous and totally un necessary. Mine is actually 3/16" thick

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

got the DC to DC convertor today and mounted it in the car, I am leaving the AC plug on until the batteries show up so I can charge the 12 battery for the regular car system. Running some yests and the max draw seems to be 32 amps and I can't imagine having all the items on at any one single time so I am sure I will be OK. I was able to adjust the output voltage to 14.40 volts which is where I will keep it. Getting closer by the day.

Brian


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Can't tell you how jealous I am!! I'm trying to get something done everyday (evening) but I can't keep up with you.


Ben in SC


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Can't tell you how jealous I am!! I'm trying to get something done everyday (evening) but I can't keep up with you.
> 
> 
> Ben in SC


Just wait till I drive it in 2-3 weeks,, heck then I will be drueliing, 

called insurance co. today got just liability insurance, will get my card in a day or two then stand in line for a couple hours at the DMV and get my plates probably thursday or friday,, YEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWW

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I just found this its a pretty cool calculator for getting engine rpm to mph figured out I was never able to drive the car before I started it so I am trying to see what mph to drive in what gear/ gears

http://www.wallaceracing.com/gear-speed.php

Brian


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

ok Brian. Just rub it in. You SO suck. 

Only because I'm jealous.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I was just looking at the car title and is shows a curb weight of 1990 pounds and yet all the Googling I have done shows 2280 pounds,, would the title be the more accurate one? Ya I know I need to hit a scale but for now I just wonder which is correct? or more correct,, I would think the title???

any thoughts?
Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> ok Brian. Just rub it in. You SO suck.
> 
> Only because I'm jealous.


Heck Dave we brought them home the exact same day???? so who "SO SUCK" LOL


Brian


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

This might have already been answered, but is that a kelly controller?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> This might have already been answered, but is that a kelly controller?



no it is the Logisystem controller 120 volt 550 amp


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

I know. Wish I had your skills. 

Heck, even when I am done I have a 6 week wait for PennDOT


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Heck, even when I am done I have a 6 week wait for PennDOT[/QUOTE]

drag it to kansas we will register it here


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

lots of info here on batteries and charging be sure to go to each next lesson it was pretty informative and good reading

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone.htm

Brian


----------



## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

dpringle said:


> I know. Wish I had your skills.
> 
> Heck, even when I am done I have a 6 week wait for PennDOT


why six weeks? is there something i need to know? i'm in PA too.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> why six weeks? is there something i need to know? i'm in PA too.


Dave will go into more detail I am sure but he tellls me that even after the inspection is done and the car passes there is a 6 week wait before the final plates will be issued, not sure if it is a paper work thing or what,, seems ridiculous to me.

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

I was told by the DMV that it will be treated as a "street rod"/custom built vehicle. I will have to go through a special inspection process. Then I turn in my application, parts receipts, inspection report, etc to to DMV. Then it takes about 4-6 weeks to get my title and registration.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What happens if you just register it as a regular vehicle? Say if I swap a diesel for a gas motor in a vehicle I wouldn't re-register it.


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Except we have annual inspections and emissions... I would run into problems then.


----------



## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

whew! i thought there was something i was unaware of. we have the saftey(mechanical ) inspection here,but no emissions testing yet. hicks in the sticks and all that. my plan is to get the saftey inspection while the vehicle is still an ICE.at least get some running time to work out the bugs until the next inspection.i know a few inspection mechanics so i don't think i'll have too many problems anyway.thanks for the info david. 

sorry to hijack your thread rctous,i'm done now,thanks for indulging me.


----------



## Aikeru (Aug 22, 2008)

Go Brian!!

Yet another fan, your progress is awesome and very informative thread!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

well thanks Aikeru!!!


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

dpringle said:


> Except we have annual inspections and emissions... I would run into problems then.


Oh yeah, forgot about that, though I'd imagine you'd do alright with the emissions test


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

dpringle said:


> Hey, just letting you guys know... the cost on my adapter and coupler is definitely going to be higher. Cost of the steel plate alone (without cutting) is $182.



Found out why when I visited the shop today. It is a 16 inch square by 2 1/2 inch thick piece of aluminum.


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Why so thick? My aluminum plate is/was 18 square by 1/2" thick. I do have a spacer ring of the same material making the total plate+spacer 1" thick to get the input shaft far enough from the motor shaft.


Ben


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

by the time it is machines, the space between the motor and granny will be about an inch and 3/8. He's recessing the motor some plus all of the bolt holes. Anyway, he showed me the CAD drawing and it made sense then. Still cheaper than what the online guys and WAY better than what I could make.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*got the chargers*

The chargers showed up a couple hours ago which was great timing as I just finished painting the rear battery panels that will hold the chargers. I did not like or want to use the huge power plug for the AC for the chargers so I mad a modification to them all. At first I left the switch hooked up to the first 3 but then thought I never really see a reason to ever shut off just one charger, and of course Murphy's law one day one of the chargers will accidently get turned off and that would be a very bad thing so I by passed the switch as well. Plugged them in to both 120 VAC and my 220 VAC plug and it wirks just fine on both voltages. I temporarly layed the chargers out on the panel as you can see in the picture, I will go now and cover it and mount them permanent. 


A happy day for Brian.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: got the chargers*

I am having sone trouble opening the last set of pics if you are just right click and hit open link,, it may just be my mouse?????????

brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: got the chargers*

Here is the rear panel with the 6 chargers, ran out of spray glue , need to go get some and cover the other panel.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*rear hatch area final look*

Well got the glue and this is the final look of the rear hatch area, still room for a few bags of grocieries. I think it turned out well.

Brian

Now to mount the 4 chargers up front..... tomorrow


----------



## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: rear hatch area final look*

Looks good Brian! This is a great thread. But would you mind explaining more about the chargers (no good info found in wiki or searching). I get you have all the chargers sending current to all the batteries, but I'm not sure what the whole deal is about this being easier than a single charger and some kind of balancing issue. Also, what model number are your chargers and where did you pick them up?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: rear hatch area final look*



booksix said:


> Looks good Brian! This is a great thread. But would you mind explaining more about the chargers (no good info found in wiki or searching). I get you have all the chargers sending current to all the batteries, but I'm not sure what the whole deal is about this being easier than a single charger and some kind of balancing issue. Also, what model number are your chargers and where did you pick them up?


These are the chargers that I am using http://www.chargingchargers.com/chargers/12volt/jac1212.html

Larry is a great guy he has sold over 40 of these chargers since this thread hit ,,so far. And this is from people buying 10 or more at a time

the purpose of using multiple chargers verses one are as follows:

1) price,, these chargers were $83.00 each so $830.00 total
2) each indivdual battery will be charged seperately and overcharge cannot occur 
(assuming charger does not fail)
3) batteries will always be the same voltage after charge without balancing, anytime you have more than one battery in a series string there will always be the possibility of the batteries not charging evenly, this is never a good thing to happen, it can and will cause premature failure of the cells or even explosion if seriously overcharged. When using one charger for 10 batteries it is smart to add a reulation system that basically bleeds off current (wasting energy into heat) at about an amp, this starts at a predetermined voltage programmed into the single charger, this will help equalize the batteries but these devices are also about $40.00 apiece. The least expensive 120 volt charger I have seen is about 600 bucks and to me I would get a Zivan or something that is about 1200 bucks (+ regs).
4) they are light weight 1.7 pound each ,, lighter now due to my modification to the power cord.
5) The best part ,,,,, auto detect 120VAC/ 220VAC plug it into either no switches to flip no nothing just plug it into either voltage,, I set up a 220 plug outside the house for charging and when I come to your house I run the cord to your 120VAC outlet,, that simple.
6) to sum it all up its cheaper, no balancing ever, dual voltage, plug it in and walk away

Now there are some wiring concerns when using multiple chargers,,, you must not use the ground wire in the 3 prong plug, you cannot let the chargers touch each other or the chassis of the car,, if this happens they become common and they will all blow up!!! This is due to the fact that they all share the next batteries lead,, in other words the first battery + is connected the the first charger + the negative of the first battery is also hooked to the second battery in series to its + lead so you are joining from the charger a + and a - to the same lead, this is all ok as long as everything else is isolated,, niether charger will see any other battery except the one its hooked up to. I will draw this out and add a pic in a few minutes. 

Did this help at all? To do this again I will use multiple chargers.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: rear hatch area final look*

Here is my crude drawing of how it all gets wired,,as I said as long as the chargers have nothing in common for any grounds then all is OK,, even my 220VAC line has only two wires in the outlet box.

Brian


----------



## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: rear hatch area final look*

Awesome, thanks! I like the idea that you can at least wire the charger 1 + to charger 2 - rather than running leads all the way for each. I guess I was just confused because a high voltage charger is only $500.00. I didn't know there was additional gear needed to make it function properly.


another question. Why pay for/wire up new plugs rather than simply removing the ground pin at the charger or at the end of the ac cable?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*front charger stair step rack*

here is what I have come up with for the front 4 battery chargers, I am waiting on paint to dry (ARRG) to finishe it up ,but you get an idea on what I got going on I think.
Should look pretty cool and help balance the look under the hood as well

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: front charger stair step rack*

Well here is the chargers just laying in place 

turned out pretty good

Brian

Paint still a bit soft


----------



## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: front charger stair step rack*

Such a nice clean setup. Good job.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: front chargers powered up!!!*

got the 4 front chargers mounted this AM and got to plug the car in for a test run (on the chargers) well as you can see so far so good. Now to get the rear 6 wired up and at least be able to see all 10 chargers light up!

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: front charger stair step rack*



xrotaryguy said:


> Such a nice clean setup. Good job.


Thanks xrotaryguy,, its the car stereo installer coming out in me. Did that for 20 years!

Brian


----------



## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

C'mon Brian, it's been two days.... you must have done heaps in that time!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

lottos said:


> C'mon Brian, it's been two days.... you must have done heaps in that time!


There is really nothing left to do but wait. I did add a strap to the rear panel so I can remove it easily, I will do the initial wiring for the rear chargers mabey today,,, but what I did accomplish this AM was going to DMV. Got to their door at 8 AM had to renew 2 of our other ICE vehicles then registered the E CAR. Absoulutly no issues at all they could care less that it was now electric, 139 bucks or so later I am done with that whole process. I even ordered personalized plates "TANICEV" Tanic is my company name and EV well it is just that, I figured it would make a good web site some day. ( and yes I just registered the domain name with GO DADDY)

Did call on the batteries yesturday and now they are 3-4 weeks out still, he is trying to find batteries somewhere else but the ones I ordered were all done the same date so I will probably just suck it up and wait!


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm sure you've already told us but what batteries are you using?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> I'm sure you've already told us but what batteries are you using?


not sure I ever did mention it I was going to wait to see if they worked first but here they are. I was pretty insistant that they all had the same date code so of course special order from China, finally I guess they are on the boat,, the slow boat from China. I am commited to them now as everything was built around them dimension wise.

http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=31


Brian


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

"$0.00" Man great price, but I bet they kill you on shipping 

What did you actually end up paying? Do you know the track record of these batteries? I don't believe I've seen them in an EV before.


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> "$0.00" Man great price, but I bet they kill you on shipping
> 
> What did you actually end up paying? Do you know the track record of these batteries? I don't believe I've seen them in an EV before.



never heard of them being used in an EV before but I like to try new things, they are used lots in wheel chairs I see the owner seems to believe they will work well.

Retail was 189.00 + about 360 freight I did pay a bit less but I was not going to mention the link till I had a chance to use them to see if they are any good. The weight is good and so is the size. Time will tell I guess.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Not much to report lately but I did get the rear 6 chargers all fired up and working, tested them all with a single 12 volt battery and they all appear to work just fine. I do notice a pretty good spark when I plug them in, (charging the caps I am sure) so I will probably add a switch to the extension cord I am using so the switch will take the hit instaed of the plug in the car, I can replace the switch often easily if need be. Also it may be because there are no batteries hooked up to the other end of the charger ,,,, not sure yet. Batteries will be on the dock on the 16th and hopefully on the way to me by the 2oth.

I took a few shots of the vinyl I added ( more still to come ) the back of the car vinyl is bigger than I thought so I may replace it with the size that is on the side but my gentle pulling on the vinyl it did not want to release easily so I may just leave it alone. Thanks to Gary's Vinyl for the vinly work! Hes got pretty good prices on stuff and can do very large vinyl work, if any one is interested in him PM me and I will hook you up.

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

A 4 star rating ??? What do I have to do to get 5 stars? LOL

Brian

(let me guess get it moving?)


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Where is this "star" rating anyways?


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

On top of the page.

Nobody gets a 5.

Dp


----------



## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

rctous said:


> (let me guess get it moving?)


Yup, we want vids of it in motion, and at least a photo of an ear-to-ear ev grin!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*the end is near (TODAY i hope)*

well ya know what they say about a picture!!!!


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Did you change batteries? They aren't the ones you linked to


----------



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: the end is near (TODAY i hope)*



rctous said:


> well ya know what they say about a picture!!!!


Those batteries look identical to my Wally World MAXX29's that I am installing in my EV. 12 Volt 125 AH for $90 including MA tax and core charge.

I hope those aren't the ones you linked too because the ones in your pic are not SLA, but flooded.


----------



## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

guess you'll be driving that thing tonight! Knowing how you work...

I'm on a one week intermission. Just boarded a cruise ship and we depart for Bermuda at 5pm. See you guys next week! Have fun with your EV Brian!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

5.5 EV miles and smiles its dinner time but I will report back later

OMG what a HOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: the end is near (TODAY i hope)*



TheSGC said:


> Those batteries look identical to my Wally World MAXX29's that I am installing in my EV. 12 Volt 125 AH for $90 including MA tax and core charge.
> 
> I hope those aren't the ones you linked too because the ones in your pic are not SLA, but flooded.


No I couldn't wait any more + reading up on SLA and the 50% usage worried me some .

I picked up these locally they are 140 ah wet yes wet,,, but all the cells are outside the car so no big deal there. Tweaking the controller so it would go up a hill (first it hardly would) can wait for the next charge ( probably tomorrow ) and the cells were 120 each,, not a bad price. The best part hooked them up and drove away ( prety much) everything works like it should. Controller gets pretty warm but we will see more tomorrow!!!

Did I mention YEEEEEE HAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Brian


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: the end is near (TODAY i hope)*

Brian!!!

Awesome news! Lets see that EV grin.

Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: the end is near (TODAY i hope)*

well the ev grin won't go away and I have it on video now i NEED to try to figure out how to get it on U TUBE.

Just went for another 4.2 mile drive so almost 10 miles total!!!!! I am sure I will get 20 more tomorrow and get the wife in on some basic training so we can get it into full service , including the daily school commute starting monday. Words can't even come close on the ev feeling,, I would rate it pretty close to child birth ( the happiness part that is). Any way I will keep ya posted on the next few days worth of adventures, still concerned about the heat from the controller, I think it gets pretty warm,,, I will make that call on monday.

HAPPPPPPPY BRIAN


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I can't wait to see the first videos.....


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Been messing around with one charger that seems to have a cold solder joint,, it shows full charge prematurely, bang on it and it turns on to charge again,, so I just tore it apart and hit all the solder joints with an iron and added solder,, so far its working OK. We will see in the AM if all the cells level out to be the same,,, of course I am out there every hour (OK 10 minutes) checking voltages and amperages. Still all (other than this ) is all good!


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> I can't wait to see the first videos.....


workin on it

I can't wait to use it to go to the store or something where it will be a virtual free ride with purpose. Not saying that just cruising has no purpose.

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: the end is near (TODAY i hope)*



rctous said:


> The best part hooked them up and drove away ( prety much) everything works like it should.


Congrats! It is an amazing feeling when after all that effort the vehicle actually works as soon as you throw the switch  You know in the back of your mind you were afraid of smoke, or sparks, or worse


----------



## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

congratulations! i've been watiching this thread with great interest,glad too see you've got it on the road.this thread will be an inspiration for many future EVers.


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Congratulations Brian, I hope to be getting mine on the road today too, you only beat me to it by about 1 year! GREAT job


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> congratulations! i've been watiching this thread with great interest,glad too see you've got it on the road.this thread will be an inspiration for many future EVers.



Thanks it has been pretty fun to do I am still having some trouble with the one charger guess I may go get a new one

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: the end is near (TODAY i hope)*



JRP3 said:


> Congrats! It is an amazing feeling when after all that effort the vehicle actually works as soon as you throw the switch  You know in the back of your mind you were afraid of smoke, or sparks, or worse


very afraid are you kidding ( scared shi^&%&^^%%),,, checked double checked and checked again, after you do something a month ago ya kind of forgot what you did then so ya just hope ya did it right as planned, I did not want to have to deal with sending anything back like the controller. I am still trying to tweek the controller so i can start off slow,,, its pretty aggressive on acceleration ( jerky) I plan to go to the parking lot again to do more tweeking,,, it must be able to be smoother????????/

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

O'Zeeke said:


> Congratulations Brian, I hope to be getting mine on the road today too, you only beat me to it by about 1 year! GREAT job


Did ya get er done did ya did ya??????????????


Brian


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

rctous said:


> Did ya get er done did ya did ya??????????????
> 
> 
> Brian


Yes Yes Yes, i got er out for the first time today, drove it about 5 miles still got a fair amount of tweakin to do but this thing is quick as sh*t. What an experience, all you can hear is the tires (after the Curtis does its thing).


----------



## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

I'm trying to get my DC/DC connected and wondered what type of fuse you used between your pack and the input side of my DC/DC? Also did you just use the white and black wire or did you connect the green to anything?

I just came in from the shop, looks like I'm about a week behind you! I did get to test my install with the rear wheels off the ground. Maybe next weekend I'll get out of the shop!!!


Ben


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> I'm trying to get my DC/DC connected and wondered what type of fuse you used between your pack and the input side of my DC/DC? Also did you just use the white and black wire or did you connect the green to anything?
> 
> ...


Ben did not hook up the green wire,, (don't) the white and black is all you need and it makes no difference where either goes. I used a 10 amp fuse for it, the math shows a 7.5 amp draw so I added a bit.

getting it out of the shop without pushing it is an awesome feeling, I have been tweaking chargers and added 2 120mmm fans to the top of my Logisystems (per their advice) the bottom 3 fans I put in are useless but of course I left them there. Took a quick 2 mile trip and the controller is definatley cooler. I am soon going to go to my friends house who is a whole 6 miles away s oa 12 mile round trip, this will be the furthest trip to date, Did use it to go to the harware store today and again tonight to go do some house wiring for a friend. The charger bugs I think I have resloved by adjusting the pot screws inside the chargers. Today was a pretty good day so far. Still having some issues with the brake vaccumm motor, it turns on fine if you pump the brakes a few time but if you do not use the brakes for a while the pump doesn't always turn on and there I am coasting with very hard to push brakes,, I will keep tweaking the adjustment on it perhaps its more sensitive than I think it is,, any one else had similar issues?

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Could you post a pic of your fans? I have the same controller so this would be very helpful. I just cant picture how you would attach them???


Lets see that video of your car on the road ASAP!!!!!

Ben


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Did you get the controller to smooth out? I have seen this complaint on the forum before concerning the Logisystems controller. 

Steve


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Could you post a pic of your fans? I have the same controller so this would be very helpful. I just cant picture how you would attach them???
> 
> 
> Lets see that video of your car on the road ASAP!!!!!
> ...


I actually called Logisystems today and had a very good conversation with the owner.

He highly recommended using fans on the top he does not mind if you drill and tap the alum it will not void the warranty, how ever if you look closely all I did was used a 1/2" gromet as the spacer and I cut #8 wood screws to the exact length and screwed them into the out side grooves, worked perfectly be sure the end of the screw is perfectly flat no point as you need it to "BITE" into the alum, the fans are rock solid,,, alos be sure not to overtighten them,,,, the fans so far seam to have made a huge difference, In hindsite I bought the pretty red and black ones as it kind of matches the theme but they are plastic and they may warp or melt ( tried to save a buck) Get the 120mm fans that are made with that higher temp poly carbonate (won't melt) the mounting holes are almost perfectly lined up with the grooves on the controller, close enough to work very well. Do the pictures offer enough detail? Do you see what I did? It was pitch black uner the hood just now but I think you can tell.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

notnull said:


> Did you get the controller to smooth out? I have seen this complaint on the forum before concerning the Logisystems controller.
> 
> Steve


Steve I did a lot of research looking on the threads on the start up being quich , rough , jerky etc. and the more I drive the car the better it is getting. I believe there is a learning curve that we need to train out foot,, it is different than in ICE car, many people say it is worse in reverse but I believe it is due to the inertia when going backwards pushing harder on the pedal,, the start up is exactly the same as far as the controller is concerned forward or backwards, I have a harder time taking off smoothly in reverse that forward as well but I am getting better. What I do not like is you push the pedal about an inch before any thing happens at all,, I think I will try to eliminate all that movemnet before the motor engages by adding a stop to the pedal and not allowing it to come out where it does now. I am not sure what effect this may have on the controller arming itself??? I assume if it sees no signal it will arm, then the question becomes why doesn't the pot box do its job as soon as it moves? Or does the controller look for more resistance to engage? Had I known this from the beginning I would have changed the way I made the linkage on the pedal and POT box,,, I guess you need to have a problem (or difficulty) before you know,, always a learning curve of course on the first one,,, the second one will be easier (not that this one was tough) I am actually enjoying all of the "tweaking" after all the hours it is just the next step to completion, and at least when I need to go get parts for it the drive costs nearly nothing!!!!!!

Brian


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> What I do not like is you push the pedal about an inch before any thing happens at all,, I think I will try to eliminate all that movement before the motor engages by adding a stop to the pedal and not allowing it to come out where it does now. I am not sure what effect this may have on the controller arming itself??? I assume if it sees no signal it will arm, then the question becomes why doesn't the pot box do its job as soon as it moves?


Someone with actual experience (as opposed to me, who has none) please correct me if I'm wrong here. But doesn't the potbox have a circuit disconnect when in the full up position, to prevent any current flowing to the controller/motor when your foot is off the pedal? My wording may be wrong here, but I thought there was some type of disconnect/safety feature built into most potboxes used for EV cars. Perhaps the extra pedal travel you're feeling is that safety disconnect engaging/disengaging?

If that's the case, you may not want to add that pedal stop...might override the safety feature of the potbox. But then, I'm eager to learn if this is the actual case, or if there is simply just some slack in the mechanism.


----------



## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Brian,

I have the 750A144V model and it came with the heat sink already tapped for two 120mm fans. It also included the fans and mounting hardware. The date code on the controller is Aug. 2008, so maybe this is something they started doing recently or it might just be something they are doing with the 750A controller. 

I also have the PB6 potbox and it takes a pretty good bit of movement to get the microswitch to break. From your description it sounds like it still takes some additional deflection of the potbox arm, once the switch breaks, before the motor will start turning. I think you could mark on the potbox the exact position of the arm when the motor starts to turn and then relocate the microswitch to break just before this position. That would take care of the travel in the pedal. 

I noticed on my car when I removed the throttle cable that it wasn't just attached to a straight arm, it was on a circular mechanism. I would think this gives less sensitivity at the ends of the travel than in the middle. I expect that is what you would want with the electric car. The pedal should have to move more at the beginning to produce small amounts of deflection of the potbox arm than it does in the middle. An electronic device that did the same thing as the pot box would be perfect, then you could program a curve for the resistance values to suit your driving style.

Steve


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> Someone with actual experience (as opposed to me, who has none) please correct me if I'm wrong here. But doesn't the potbox have a circuit disconnect when in the full up position, to prevent any current flowing to the controller/motor when your foot is off the pedal? My wording may be wrong here, but I thought there was some type of disconnect/safety feature built into most potboxes used for EV cars. Perhaps the extra pedal travel you're feeling is that safety disconnect engaging/disengaging?
> 
> If that's the case, you may not want to add that pedal stop...might override the safety feature of the potbox. But then, I'm eager to learn if this is the actual case, or if there is simply just some slack in the mechanism.


I removed the switch at the pot so it is not even being used as for the first inch being a saftey area I am not sure I guess I will try a stop and see what the hech happens. there is no slack in my mechanism but perhaps in the pot box I will let ya know what happens, even if I had a 1/4" of slop I could live with that


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

notnull said:


> Brian,
> 
> I have the 750A144V model and it came with the heat sink already tapped for two 120mm fans. It also included the fans and mounting hardware. The date code on the controller is Aug. 2008, so maybe this is something they started doing recently or it might just be something they are doing with the 750A controller.
> 
> ...


ya a programmable one would be great I could only imagine the cost though?

brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It's my understanding that the controller has a resistance threshold that must be overcome. I wouldn't minimize the play in the pedal to less than a 1/4" as you say. Because as the potbox ages, the resistance might drift. (Dirt and grime get on the contacts in the pot.) Then you might find that your controller never turns off. I don't know, really, but it seems like such a thing could be an issue if you don't utilize the micro-switch as an interlock for the controller.

By the way, my 144V750A Logisystem (delivered in July) didn't come with fans or holes. So this must be a new feature, or it was added by the dealer.

Great work, by the way, Brian. You did a great job chronicling your build. I'm stuck waiting for parts and rebuilding the car, but I've been inspired by your workmanship.

Are you measuring your kWHs as you charge the EV? I'm curious what you get for Wh/mile.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I must have missed something, but when/how did you get your new controller, rctous?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> I must have missed something, but when/how did you get your new controller, rctous?


I got the controller from Joel Silverman at EZelectric cars, got it a couple months ago.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> It's my understanding that the controller has a resistance threshold that must be overcome. I wouldn't minimize the play in the pedal to less than a 1/4" as you say. Because as the potbox ages, the resistance might drift. (Dirt and grime get on the contacts in the pot.) Then you might find that your controller never turns off. I don't know, really, but it seems like such a thing could be an issue if you don't utilize the micro-switch as an interlock for the controller.
> 
> By the way, my 144V750A Logisystem (delivered in July) didn't come with fans or holes. So this must be a new feature, or it was added by the dealer.
> 
> ...


Haven't measured what kWHs I am using from the house still busy tweaking the chargers now. I need to readjust the offset voltages so the chargers will actually stop charging ang go int float mode, called the charger company and they offered all kinds of info for the chargers and the pots and what they do.

My controller had no drilled hole either, as I said a 120mm fan lines up almost perfect to add the fans it was a 20 minute job, just be sure you add fans,,, PERIOD! It has made a difference but I am yet to go more than 5 miles away round trip yet. Not willing to go farther than I am willing to walk, and I always take my cell phone.

I went ahead and added a stopper as you can see on the picture, just a bracket that can be slid up and down, now the controller kicks in after about 1/8" or less foot presure, went for a test drive and it is soooooo much better, still training the foot to do what the brain is telling it but at least now I can feel exactly when it will start to move forward. darn need to go to the post office E car here we come.

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

Do you think that the metal mounting plate is adding any heat dissipation? I have the 750amp 144v controller and mine didn't come with fans either. I'm going to try to locate some tomorrow.


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> Do you think that the metal mounting plate is adding any heat dissipation? I have the 750amp 144v controller and mine didn't come with fans either. I'm going to try to locate some tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Yes Ben the lower fans are helping out but very little, If I were to do it again I would not bother with the lower fans at all or the alum plate. As well the controller does not need to be isolated from the car chassis either,, the case is not a ground for any internal components. 

I got my fans at MICRO CENTER you can spend 10 bucks or 40 bucks as I said earlier I would avoid the cheap plastic blades like I got,, although at 15 bucks each the have worked fine for 2 days now.. I also had my longest trip tonight, went to dinner and the store round trip about 12 miles.. I am also using first gear alot (to my surprise) If I take off in second gear after the car starts moving it is sluggish till about 25-30 mph then there is plenty of power , if I start off in first and shift at 20 mph I get to cruising speed(35mph) faster,, I am sure no two cars are the same but this is what is working for me. Shifting with no clutch is an absolute NON issue, up or down it couldn't be easier.

Did I answer the question in there Ben???

Brian


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## Electric_Rav (Aug 11, 2008)

rctous said:


> Haven't measured what kWHs I am using from the house still busy tweaking the chargers now. I need to readjust the offset voltages so the chargers will actually stop charging ang go int float mode, called the charger company and they offered all kinds of info for the chargers and the pots and what they do.
> 
> Brian


Brian, some time ago you mentioned the type of chargers you are using and so I bookmarked the site and the other day I was thinking, what kind of amperage do the chargers pull out of the wall socket? If I had 12 of them and they were all plugged into the same 120 or 240 volt wall socket, I wonder if the breaker would trip. I've not been able to find on their site what the input amperage (or the wattage). Any ideas?


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Electric_Rav said:


> Brian, some time ago you mentioned the type of chargers you are using and so I bookmarked the site and the other day I was thinking, what kind of amperage do the chargers pull out of the wall socket? If I had 12 of them and they were all plugged into the same 120 or 240 volt wall socket, I wonder if the breaker would trip. I've not been able to find on their site what the input amperage (or the wattage). Any ideas?


At 220VAC it draws 6.7 amps of current at 110VAC its around 14 amps, I have a 60 amp 220 circuit (I tapped of the same breakers as my welder is on) the 14 awg 25 foot extension cord I use for charging at 220VAC does not get the slightest bit warm but at 110VAC the cord warms up a bit, I am not worried about it though. The 110 circuit is on a standard 15 amp breaker,, I have not tripped it yet although I rarley use it, heck I have only been charging 3 days now ( did I mention YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEE hhhhhhhAAWWWWWWW) lately???? Just checkin

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Brian,
Have you entered your car into the Garage (on this forum) yet? It'd be great to see all of your components in one place. I think your component choices have been very similar to mine. WarP9, Logisystems controller, 12 Amp Schauer chargers. I ordered all of the big ticket items back in June, but I still haven't received my motor yet. Supposedly it's due this week. But, it's been delayed 3 months already.

I'm getting to live vicariously through your completion just a little bit. I simply cannot wait for my motor to arrive.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

rctous said:


> Yes Ben the lower fans are helping out but very little, If I were to do it again I would not bother with the lower fans at all or the alum plate. .......
> 
> Did I answer the question in there Ben???
> 
> Brian



Yep, you sure did. I'm waiting for my aluminum plate to arrive. Should be at my office in the morning but now I'm not sure if I should use it... I picked up two 120mm fans with screens today at a local electronics place.


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Yep, you sure did. I'm waiting for my aluminum plate to arrive. Should be at my office in the morning but now I'm not sure if I should use it... I picked up two 120mm fans with screens today at a local electronics place.
> 
> 
> Ben


 I wouldn't bother at all. 95% ( or more) of the heat is at the top nothing at the bottom, the top fans make a world of difference. I am leaving mine but only because they are already there,, now you need to mount the controller to something and the alum does look cool. Also I did not bother with the screens either because I have the fans wired to IGN and I never really plan to be standing in front of the car with the IGN in the on position,,,, but not a bad idea. 

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Brian,
> Have you entered your car into the Garage (on this forum) yet? It'd be great to see all of your components in one place. I think your component choices have been very similar to mine. WarP9, Logisystems controller, 12 Amp Schauer chargers. I ordered all of the big ticket items back in June, but I still haven't received my motor yet. Supposedly it's due this week. But, it's been delayed 3 months already.
> 
> I'm getting to live vicariously through your completion just a little bit. I simply cannot wait for my motor to arrive.


no I have yet to put it in the garage I will pretty soon,, there are a ton of pictures I will need to go through but I will. By the way I have 2 chargers that are going back for repair trouble shooting and tweaking these can be a huge ordeal,, when you get to that point or perhaps now you may want to send them to Schauer and have them do the tweaking for you,,, they will not charge you , but mine would not go int the maintanence mode correctly,, I had to adjust the pot do dial it in. Schauer says they are not set up (from the factory) to do large (100AH) + batteries its a fairly simple fix but it is the very last thing you need to put in the car so I would send them in. Call me (800-728-6976) and I can give you the contact info person and address. You willl want to talk to him first. I spent 2 days dealing with this issue and at the end here i either have 2 bad chargers or just so far out of wack they won't function. I took them out and will send them in tomorrow for them to tweak or replace.

Brian

PS I still think that 1 charger per battery is a better way to go just the oddities of what we are doing with them is all.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

How do I determine if the chargers need tweaking or not until I'm using them to charge the batteries in the car? I'd love to test this stuff out now. I suppose the pots are inside of the chargers and not normally accessible. Thanks for learning the lessons for me!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> How do I determine if the chargers need tweaking or not until I'm using them to charge the batteries in the car? I'd love to test this stuff out now. I suppose the pots are inside of the chargers and not normally accessible. Thanks for learning the lessons for me!



there are 4 pots behind the fan end panel 

the top one is for setting the max charge voltage ( 14.8)

the second pot is for setting the float voltage (13.3)

the third pot is for setting the max current of the charger (12 amps) 

the forth bottom pot is really the only one you will need to mess with and it is the voltage differencial between full charge and float charge. On some of the larger capacity batteries the factory setting is not able ( for some reason) to detect the difference enough and the charger never goes into float mode ( light on chargers stay orange for ever. Once you barley turn this after determining that full 14.8 volts has been reached it is OK. It will turn green then settle in at about 13.3 volts. I mentioned sending it in because they will do it for you if you tell them the size of your batteries it will be calibrated by them. I did mine today and have tested them several times by adding a 20 amp load to the batteries for about 10-15 seconds after they go into float mode then watching the light turn to orange, (charging) then goes back to float mode in a minute or two.

By the way these can be adjusted through the fan without removing the end cap as well I just stick a small phillips screwdriver through the fan while it is spinning to make the adjustment. ( the fan will not burn up on you by doing this) this way you can see the results as you are turning the screw. Or if you are more comfortable just remove the end plate.

Brian


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## d-bledsoe (May 22, 2008)

Great work, i have been keeping an eye on your progress since the start. If you dont mind my asking how much $$$ do you have invested into your ev?
Im in the process of ripping into my '92 mx-3 for conversion and am trying to get an idea from everyone i talk with.

Thanks
-Derek


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

d-bledsoe said:


> Great work, i have been keeping an eye on your progress since the start. If you dont mind my asking how much $$$ do you have invested into your ev?
> Im in the process of ripping into my '92 mx-3 for conversion and am trying to get an idea from everyone i talk with.
> 
> Thanks
> -Derek


Well thanks man for the KUDOS!!

Including the donor car (700 bucks) about 6.5K,, I am sure you could do it for less if you used some used parts but everything I have on this one was all brand new. You can be thrifty as well and save where possible, for me the 500 amp fuses, I spent like 8.00 each and I have seen them for as much as 40-50 bucks, to me a 500 amp fuse is a 500 amp fuse, it is doing its job flawlessly.
Now that figure is starting to go up because now that the car actually seems to work I am investing in new struts, mabey tires heck I may even get er painted, things I was not wanting to spend money on it in the beginning when money was tight(believe me it still is) but we did not put any of it on a credit card ( debit card yes) but not any on credit. Now once it is in full service I expect to save 300-350 bucks per month, so let the pay back begin.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Can you give me the source for those fuses! My 400amp littlefuse was $30.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Can you give me the source for those fuses! My 400amp littlefuse was $30.



here are the 500 amp

http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/fu-ane-500.htm

here are the 400 amp

http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/fu-ane-400.htm


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Those are both the same link for the 500 amp fuse.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Those are both the same link for the 500 amp fuse.


WOOPS fixed it

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> I went ahead and added a stopper as you can see on the picture, just a bracket that can be slid up and down, now the controller kicks in after about 1/8" or less foot presure, went for a test drive and it is soooooo much better, still training the foot to do what the brain is telling it but at least now I can feel exactly when it will start to move forward. darn need to go to the post office E car here we come.
> 
> Brian


Back to your pot-box issue... I just learned something that may be beneficial to you. I just received the pot box, after a 3.5 month back order wait. I went to test it with an ohm meter, to make sure everything was smooth, and it wasn't. The resistance was 0 across the entire range of the throttle. I called for a replacement pot. I started dismantling the pot box (great design, IMO) and thought I'd measure the pot again. Sure enough it's fine. 1/3rd of the range is 0 Ohm, 1/3rd is 0-5k, and the last third is 5k. Mine happened to be grossly miscalibrated. I canceled the new pot and put everything back together. Now it behaves fine (at least with an ohm meter). Perhaps your is just slightly miscalibrated. I suggest hooking it up to an ohm meter and checking. I set mine so that the micro-switch clicks with just a small amount of movement. And the resistance increases immediately. I don't know how this will affect the drivability of the car, but at least I know that it's easily adjustable. Let me know if you can't figure out how to adjust it.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Back to your pot-box issue... I just learned something that may be beneficial to you. I just received the pot box, after a 3.5 month back order wait. I went to test it with an ohm meter, to make sure everything was smooth, and it wasn't. The resistance was 0 across the entire range of the throttle. I called for a replacement pot. I started dismantling the pot box (great design, IMO) and thought I'd measure the pot again. Sure enough it's fine. 1/3rd of the range is 0 Ohm, 1/3rd is 0-5k, and the last third is 5k. Mine happened to be grossly miscalibrated. I canceled the new pot and put everything back together. Now it behaves fine (at least with an ohm meter). Perhaps your is just slightly miscalibrated. I suggest hooking it up to an ohm meter and checking. I set mine so that the micro-switch clicks with just a small amount of movement. And the resistance increases immediately. I don't know how this will affect the drivability of the car, but at least I know
> 
> that it's easily adjustable. Let me know if you can't figure out how to adjust it.



I assume it has to do with the removable plug on the end of the pot box?

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I assume yours looks like this: http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/th-pb-6.htm

Just loosen the bolt/nut that keeps the lever attached to the shaft. Then you can adjust the shaft with a screwdriver until the resistance is almost 0 but not quite. Then move it one tiny bump over again, so that it's just at 0 ohms. Then simply retighten the lever onto the shaft. You can also loosen the plate that holds the micro-switch and slide it back and forth to get the right action from that if you are using that as a interlock.

The removable plug goes nowhere, it's just a decoy to throw you off the scent.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I assume yours looks like this: http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/th-pb-6.htm
> 
> Just loosen the bolt/nut that keeps the lever attached to the shaft. Then you can adjust the shaft with a screwdriver until the resistance is almost 0 but not quite. Then move it one tiny bump over again, so that it's just at 0 ohms. Then simply retighten the lever onto the shaft. You can also loosen the plate that holds the micro-switch and slide it back and forth to get the right action from that if you are using that as a interlock.
> 
> The removable plug goes nowhere, it's just a decoy to throw you off the scent.


well moving the lever will pretty much do what I already did with the stopper right?

figures on the decoy cap!

B


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If the lever is moving a lot while still giving 0 ohms then you might not be getting to full throttle at the end of the throw by just using your stop to take up the slack.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

As long as you're happy with it. If you want to adjust it another time, now you know a more elegant solution.

Thanks for the oodles of inspiration, man.
-D


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> If the lever is moving a lot while still giving 0 ohms then you might not be getting to full throttle at the end of the throw by just using your stop to take up the slack.


ya got a point so I guess I will take the ohm meter to find out. Even if I do not have full throttle I am OK with it not going any further,,

what is better when going down hill? Leaving it in gear of throwing it in neutral? I would think the controller would be working pretty hard to fight off the back fed voltage, as well it coasts alot better in neutral.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> As long as you're happy with it. If you want to adjust it another time, now you know a more elegant solution.
> 
> Thanks for the oodles of inspiration, man.
> -D


I just don't want to take off the pedal again (its about a two minute job) but I did not leave slack for the wire inside the car so I would have to undo a harness or two, (call me lazy) its funner to drive than to fix.

Got the 2 new chargers today slapped them in and all is well a person can get lost in all the tweaking of them.

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

One reason to leave it in gear is to let the fan inside the motor keep running. Other than that, I don't think it really matters.

I don't think anyone will start to accuse you of being lazy. At least, not for a while.

Put your car in the Garage already!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Put your car in the Garage already![/QUOTE]

Well I think I have at least part of it in the garage still working on it 

Brian

not sure how to find it yet


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> One reason to leave it in gear is to let the fan inside the motor keep running. Other than that, I don't think it really matters.
> 
> I think your right Bottomfeeder, also at least as far as rear wheel drive, it was always recommended not to coast in neutral by a GM mechanic (my brother) due to tailshaft bearing wear issues. maybe just put it in a higher gear while coasting.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

O'Zeeke said:


> I think your right Bottomfeeder, also at least as far as rear wheel drive, it was always recommended not to coast in neutral by a GM mechanic (my brother) due to tailshaft bearing wear issues. maybe just put it in a higher gear while coasting.


Why would the tailshaft bearing wear more when coasting? It's under a lot less load.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

so far the motor doesn't get very warm / hot so I am no to concerned there my concern is all the extra work that the controller must be doing to absorb all that energy, also as I mentioned when in gear the motor is like a brake, it coasts much easier when in neutral there fore I go further with no amps. I know the controller is designed for this (obviously) just wonder if it would help prolong the life of the controller or perhaps help keep it bit cooler?

Also curious about the tailshaft bearing from the above posts I would agree that it would wear less?????????????

Brian


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Why would the tailshaft bearing wear more when coasting? It's under a lot less load.


It is recommended to disconnect the driveshaft if towing over a certain # of miles, or to tow a fwd car with the front end up. It may lubrication problems because the input shaft is not turning. There are probably other reasons, like I said my bro is a GM mechanic and I'll find out from him.


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

yeah, but isn't that specifically in an automatic? Thought it was a transmission cooling issue.


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## 3dplane (Feb 27, 2008)

He must have been talking about automatics.
I coast my manual ICE all the time in neutral engine off,sometimes over a mile.Should not hurt a thing.(BTW I'm a GM mechanic too...but I hate it)
Barna


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*todays Parade pics*

Well here are a couple pictures of my first EV parade, it was pretty cool a lot of ooooo's and awhhhh's was lots of fun, I have a couple mor on a different camera still to be downloaded. I took the hood back off for the show ( just after putting it on a couple days ago.)

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: todays Parade pics*

here is a couple more pics of today's parade


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: todays Parade pics*

a new milestone I just hit the Century mark 102 EV miles
( still tweaking chargers)

Brian


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

Brian


thank you so much for sharing your journey and photos - you are an inspiration!


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

3dplane said:


> He must have been talking about automatics.
> I coast my manual ICE all the time in neutral engine off,sometimes over a mile.Should not hurt a thing.(BTW I'm a GM mechanic too...but I hate it)
> Barna


Hey Barna, where in Florida can you coast for over a mile? I live in east-central Fl and its flat as a board. Anyways for some reason the owners manual of my 5M Mustang GT says towing not to exceed 35 mph and for distances of less than 50 miles otherwise a flatbed should be used. Maybe a posi issue? BTW my bro hates it too.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Wow that is the nicest looking EV engine bay with batteries I think I have seen. Its really well set out and its great to be able to see all of the components like that. Great job.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

He should make a clear lexan or plexiglass hood


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok.. I'm ready to order parts and wanted to ask about a couple of the components you've used.. forgive me if you've answered this before:

What type of aux battery are you using for backup on your 12v sys?
How well has the less expensive DC/DC converter been working out?
Do you have any idea what your range is going to be w/ the 12V batts?

Thanks!!!

Your conversion looks fantastic... terrific job!

Patrick 
Indy


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ok.. I'm ready to order parts and wanted to ask about a couple of the components you've used.. forgive me if you've answered this before:
> 
> What type of aux battery are you using for backup on your 12v sys?
> A sla 17AH simple battery
> ...


answers are in the quote above


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

Do you have the source for your SLA battery? I have a few here but they are 7ah and not near large enough to be comfortable.

Ben


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

I'd think 7Ah a little small as well. I used a 7Ah SLA as a replacement for a very heavy 14Ah flooded cell on a motorcycle once, and the results were not so favorable. I.E. if I parked the bike with low fuel, and forgot to set the petcock to reserve before cranking, I could easily run the battery down within a few start attempts. That bike didn't need many amps to crank over, the 7Ah just couldn't supply enough for long enough... Eventually the 14Ah original flooded cell went back in.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> Do you have the source for your SLA battery? I have a few here but they are 7ah and not near large enough to be comfortable.
> 
> Ben


ebay had the best price ( around 38 bucks with shipping )

everywhere else they seemed to be about 57 bucks

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> I'd think 7Ah a little small as well. I used a 7Ah SLA as a replacement for a very heavy 14Ah flooded cell on a motorcycle once, and the results were not so favorable. I.E. if I parked the bike with low fuel, and forgot to set the petcock to reserve before cranking, I could easily run the battery down within a few start attempts. That bike didn't need many amps to crank over, the 7Ah just couldn't supply enough for long enough... Eventually the 14Ah original flooded cell went back in.


the reason I went a bit bigger was the recharging current, if it were pretty dead the dc to dc would be charging it essentially up to 30 amps or even higher if you have a larger dc to dc which is not a good charge rate for SLA batteries. on a 7AH that is a 4C charge even my 17 AH could potentalyy charge at 2C (which is still to high) but so far it is working out quite nicely.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I went for my 20 mile drive ( didn't do the 20) could have but instead we went on the highway for about 2 miles and 60 mph no problem at all, had some wheel shaking due to the fact I took all the lead weights off for balancing, did this so I coule fix the "curbed wheels". I still could have one several miles but brought it home and plugged it in,, still messing with the chargers but I am down to two of them ( one really) but I am setting the float voltage to with in .02 of each other and that takes some time when you account for settling voltages etc.

Did I mention I love this car!!!!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> Do you have the source for your SLA battery? I have a few here but they are 7ah and not near large enough to be comfortable.
> 
> Ben


this is the exact one I got

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-volt-17-amp-...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

it is very light ( probably lower quality) but it works great so far

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

finally making some progress (I thinnk) I have one charger grieving me but think I am getting close. Every time I adjust one pot it makes a difference on the other pot. I am trying to dial in float voltage, max current , max voltage , and the voltage differencial between high and float. What a pain. here is a pic of all my hi-tech test equipment, ( a couple volt meters amp meter , pencil paper and dischager )don't laugh at the light bulb discharger I built it 5 years ago for my business and I am able to put a constsnt load and change the load depending on how many switches I have on, it has been very instrumental in setting the chargers, I will let ya know if it worked by the end of the day.


Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I thought this was a pretty good idea so I thought I would share. The male outlet on the car keeps getting pitted everytime I plug in so this gets rid of that problem completely for about 4 bucks. I can replace the switch every year or 6 months or what ever for 99 cents and about a minute labor. Works like a charm.

Brian

WOW I guess I need to do something with that unleaded fuel sticker,,, my vinyl guy has yet to get me my stickers, but in his defence he has been very busy.


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hello.

I like your build but I do not like the look of that electrical box next to your paintjob.

Foam?

DP


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

e_canuck said:


> Hello.
> 
> I like your build but I do not like the look of that electrical box next to your paintjob.
> 
> ...


If I had a paint job I would agree believe me a scratch will not hurt a thing.. also it doesn't really touch the car.

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Is there a way to mount the switch under the gas lid? It's a very clever idea, and I'm sure that I'm going to have the same problem with my chargers.

Perhaps I didn't see it in the posts, but are you using 120VAC brushless fans to keep H2 from building up? Or is your car leaky enough?

Can you hear the fans on the controller from inside the car? I would like my car to be as silent as possible, so I was considering having the fans kick on only when the controller gets to a certain temperature. Would that be worth it at all?

Well, I got a call today from FedEx. They'll finally be delivering my WarP 9 motor tomorrow afternoon. I've been waiting 3 and a half months for it. Now we'll see how fast I can do my conversion. All of the big items are in except for the batteries, which I don't anticipate a huge delay for. The car needs a bit more restoration: another day's work of body work and primering, but after that the electricals and restoration can happen concurrently. I'll have to start my own build thread and start taking tons of photos.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Is there a way to mount the switch under the gas lid? It's a very clever idea, and I'm sure that I'm going to have the same problem with my chargers.
> 
> Perhaps I didn't see it in the posts, but are you using 120VAC brushless fans to keep H2 from building up? Or is your car leaky enough?
> 
> ...


all the batteries are under or outside the car ( well at least when the panel is on) so I have no fans at all for charging, I do open the back hatch as it gets pretty warm inside the car with the chargers going.

Nope can't hear the fans at all on the controller,, 

I would not add a t-stat to the fans,, believe me the controller will get to that certain temp quick then the fans will not shut off. I would not bother, heck they draw like no current at all. If ya want to do something cool with the controller fans then add a timer so after you stop driving they stay on for a few minutes, (I may do it) but now the controller runs pretty cool now


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Is there a way to mount the switch under the gas lid? It's a very clever idea, and I'm sure that I'm going to have the same problem with my chargers.
> 
> I am sure that you could add a switch under the lid if you wanted to this was a quick simple very effective resolve to a problem I was having, I have also noticed the sane arc marks on several of the e-cars in our club. I looked at circuit braekers first but nothing is as simple and cheap as this. Sure later if I painted the car I would be sure to protect the car from the switch, but I wanted the switch as close to the car plug as possible, it does work very well and takes care of the issue 100%
> 
> Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*I got a story*

Well let me tell ya about the day I had. Started off nice sun shining 75 degrees the perfect day for an ev trip. I was planning a trip to Castle Creations which is a company I deal with for the RC business,, looked it up on Mapquest and it showed 13.5 miles, now this was assuming you went on the highway for about 5 of those miles, and I decided to take the back roads, well it turned out to be 19.5 miles just to get there. Knowing the math would make it nearly a 40 mile round trip, plus I had a stop to make but kinda on the way, I left Castle then to my stop left my syo and in about 10 more miles ya ,,, out of juice, car was slowing down and the voltage was getting as low as 80 volts with a 100 amp load. Things were not looking so good. I pulled over at a Bass Pro shop at their service area and talked to then and they were more than happy to offer me an outlet,,, well crap I kept tripping their breaker, we had to call maintanence to unlock the panell and reset the breaker tried again and again and again not much luck perhaps 10-15 minutes of actuall charge time, so I left there an hour later and got about 5 miles driving no more than 25 mph coasting when possible again battery critically low found a couple guys out in a shop (actually an FAA building) stopped and told them I had an electric car and asked for an outlet,, people are great I tell ya they were more than happy to help out but the same breaker issue so I got smart and took the fuse out of 5 of the 10 chargers and the breaker was fine then, I charged for 30 minutes on the first 5 then 30 minutes on the last 5 then hit the raod again. This time I got about 5 miles and was 20 blocks from home. My son goes to school with a kid whos house I was nearing so in the driveway I went, Mom was home and I did the same 5 chargers at a time but only for 15 minutes each 5, My wife picked up the kids an came over to where I was and she thought it was pretty funny, I was embarrrassed but OH well. After that charge I was able to make it home. I get home plug it all in and blow up a charger,, so now out of 12 chargers I am down to 9 that work,

I am sick of the charger issues I have had so my new front struts showed up and I put them on, That was easy. So it looks like I am sending all the chargers to the manufacturer to have them all tweaked for the batteries I am using if that doesn't work I will get rid of them entirely.

Not a good EV day for Brian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Thats sucks. But the silver lining is that folks are so willing to help out an EV'er.

So I take it your max range is 30 miles if you run it dry. Maybe you could get more after the batteries are cycled some more.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Thats sucks. But the silver lining is that folks are so willing to help out an EV'er.
> 
> So I take it your max range is 30 miles if you run it dry. Maybe you could get more after the batteries are cycled some more.


people were incredibley helpful and after hanging around with them for an hour or so ya get most of their questions answered. Heck they even offered me water and soda. (yes I took it)

as for the range I am still not entirely convinced the chargers had all the batteies completely charged ( I t was on all night) but<<<<<<<<<<<<< And yes they claim it takes 15-30 cycles to get the full capacity from the batteries. I am fine with 30 for us its perfect. Also I aligned the front wheel when I replaced the strut that will help , it was quite a bit out. As well I will go back to 40 pounds of air pressure, I currently have 35.

its also interesting that I made 10 miles on basically 45 minutes of charging at 12 amps????? That doesn't add up at all.


Basically my 40 mile trip took me 4 1/2 hours (OUCH)


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

rctous said:


> people were incredibley helpful and after hanging around with them for an hour or so ya get most of their questions answered. Heck they even offered me water and soda. (yes I took it)
> 
> as for the range I am still not entirely convinced the chargers had all the batteies completely charged ( I t was on all night) but<<<<<<<<<<<<< And yes they claim it takes 15-30 cycles to get the full capacity from the batteries. I am fine with 30 for us its perfect. Also I aligned the front wheel when I replaced the strut that will help , it was quite a bit out. As well I will go back to 40 pounds of air pressure, I currently have 35.
> 
> ...


My EV is not done yet, but I have AMP selection on my chargers so I can plug in anywhere and not blow breakers or fuses. 

As for the 45 minute 10 mile range, it make sense because not only are you adding charge, the batteries are resting and that lessens puekerts effect. Lead acid batteries have some serious bounceback when sitting.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> My EV is not done yet, but I have AMP selection on my chargers so I can plug in anywhere and not blow breakers or fuses.
> 
> Lead acid batteries have some serious bounceback when sitting.


Ya I guess so because it sure bounced back

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Dude. Sorry to hear about the problematic travels my friend.


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

are you going to break down and buy a zivan or quickcharge?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

chamilun said:


> are you going to break down and buy a zivan or quickcharge?


yup

looking for the last hour,, what are your thoughts on this one???

http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/3221


brian


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

Ive got the 220 quickcharge sitting in my garage. it was recommended to me by Bryan @ eva that the 220 was better for home charging (quicker, deeper charge that improves life cycles and range) vs 110 that may be mounted on the vehicle for necessary recharges (forgot what people are calling this when you top off during the day).

sounds like it may be the answer to some mild frustrations (?)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

the one I SENT TO YOU on the link is a 220 vac but it mounts in the car doesn't it??

aLSO I COULD NOT FINd THE WEIGHT ANYWHERE it's not like 57 pounds is it?

brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

yes, mine is very heavy. Haven't put it on a scale, but 50 or so sounds right. Hey, mounting the 110 in the car and putting a 220 charger on the wall at home sounds like a great idea. Why didn't I think of that. (insert smart a__ remark here)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> yes, mine is very heavy. Haven't put it on a scale, but 50 or so sounds right. Hey, mounting the 110 in the car and putting a 220 charger on the wall at home sounds like a great idea. Why didn't I think of that. (insert smart a__ remark here)


Dave do you have the exact one on the link I posted?


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

This sure isn't good news to a guy who's got 10 of those exact chargers sitting in my EV pile. I'll be following this with open ears.

-D


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

yeah, that sucker is heavy. at LEAST 50 lbs, probably 60+. mines in a wooden box right now, so Im not exactly certain.

with the exception of the voltage difference (96 vs 120 vs 144 etc), that is the one that most people get when they are getting the quick charge.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

I have the 110V model of that charger. It is HEAVY, as others have said, near 50lbs. The dimensions are 7dx9wx9h.


Ben


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

mine looks just like that one. Just 110v.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I am working directly with the charger manufacturer to resolve the issues with my current chargers, They received two of the ones I sent in and one was OK the other is no good. They are dialing them in for charging the batteies I am using so I will get them in a couple days and try them out. Schauer Joplar has been very nice to work with.
I will let ya know, I really want the seperate chargers to work and certainly do not want to add 54 pounds to the car, The NG3 is light but spendy

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Replace the rear struts today (did the front ones last night) and compressed the front coils to lower it a bit and on the rear springs I cut them down shorter. No the car rides at the right height and looks good, Just came back from having the wheels balanced as well ,, what a difference, it rides like a Cadilac now (the back is still firm but livable). Went to pull out of the garage and heard grinding and the car would not move I tried first gear stll gringin an no movement,, first thought my couple stripped busted what ever. called the wife out to give it throttle while I looked nad whew the axle came out of the passenger side wheel. SSSWHEWWWWWWWWW. I was pretty aggressive getting the front strut so I obviously knocked out the axle. took the wheeel back off and fixed it, pretty simple but I was scaed there for a second,, had visions of ripping it all apart to get to the coupler.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

car sure looks better lower huh???


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

with all the issues I am having with chargers I picked up this at Target tonight,

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205835488&listingid=10813125&dcaid=17902

wow for 60 bucks its awesome. I only have 9 out of 10 chargers working and the old 12 volt charger I had was near the end of its life I am using this on the 10 th battery. It has a digital sdisplay for amps and volts and the best part I like is it has a reconditioning feature as well , so once a month I can boil the batteries ( one at a time) but at least now I can do it. Still charging so I am not sure entirely how well it will finish but I expect good resaults.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I added another spring to the gas pedal today and it makes a huge difference for the strat off issues I was having, also added a .001 Uf cap to the two wires coming off the pot, it helps to clean up any noise that is generated, seems to help. Start off is much better.

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I suppose you are referring to a stronger return spring. I can imagine having to do the same thing for my throttle. I'd like for there to be some resistance to the pedal so it doesn't feel weak. Of course, I haven't put throttle in yet, but perhaps in the next week.

Interesting idea of putting a cap across the pot box. I'll keep that in the back of my mind if I experience any odd behavior with the 0-5mph


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

Did that help with your reverse problem? My car, with the Logisystems controller, will give you whiplash trying to back up. It takes a while to back up because I'm trying to "ease" onto the pedal but it never fails that it catches me. I have my ramp all the way down but it's still pretty bad.


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> Did that help with your reverse problem? My car, with the Logisystems controller, will give you whiplash trying to back up. It takes a while to back up because I'm trying to "ease" onto the pedal but it never fails that it catches me. I have my ramp all the way down but it's still pretty bad.
> 
> ...


I have my ramp all the way down as well the reverse issue is from th einertia when you first move the car moving backwards forces you to press the pedal. I have an easier time in reverse than forward. I have learned to comimt to the first 1/8" of pressing the pedal, and it seems to be better, but have I resolved the perfect take off yet??? NO, thinking of a pre pedal though it would be on top of the existing gas pedal but stick out about an inch from it, when you press on it it will move an inch but the pot lever would only move 1/8" or so of course then it would make contact with the regular gas pedal and all would then become normal,, kind of like adding expodential to the throttle like in an RC plane. At this point just a thought though I will see what developes with the idea.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I suppose you are referring to a stronger return spring. I can imagine having to do the same thing for my throttle. I'd like for there to be some resistance to the pedal so it doesn't feel weak. Of course, I haven't put throttle in yet, but perhaps in the next week.
> 
> Interesting idea of putting a cap across the pot box. I'll keep that in the back of my mind if I experience any odd behavior with the 0-5mph


what controller are you using?

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Logisystems 120-144V 750A. I'm hoping I don't have similar problems. We'll have to see. Uncontrolled backing up could be bad for my body work!


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

Have you asked the guys at Logisystems what they would recommend to help with this? I ask you first because I am thinking about calling them today.

Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> Have you asked the guys at Logisystems what they would recommend to help with this? I ask you first because I am thinking about calling them today.
> 
> Ben


I did but they actually said I was the first to mention it to them

definately call them and let me know the resault you get from them

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It does seem rather odd. The controller doesn't know what gear you're in. Why would reverse be different from first? Other than, as you suggest, it's your foot's inertia. But, that doesn't seem to happen with an ICE. This is a puzzle.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> It does seem rather odd. The controller doesn't know what gear you're in. Why would reverse be different from first? Other than, as you suggest, it's your foot's inertia. But, that doesn't seem to happen with an ICE. This is a puzzle.


reverse is definately the foots inertia 

I wonder if it has something to do with the brushes wearing in??? It does seem to be getting better but that also may be my foot getting trained,, There needs to be an adjustable pot just for the accelaration I mean the first 2 mph part of the acceleration, once I get moving even the slightest speed it is all very easy it is just getting to that first 2 MPH

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

what are you guys using for the relay for your 1500 watt ceramic heater? The regular bosch auto type will not work any one with a part # and a sorce to buy them?

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I don't see a reason why this relay won't work from Newark.com: 55K3124.
You can get comparable relays at Digikey, I'm sure.

But, if you're nervous, you can get beefier ones.

I'm actually surprised the Bosch ones won't work. It's only got to handle ~15A of current. Most relays are prepared for that.

For my heater, due to the geometry of my fan and fan box, I'm going to implement two ceramic heaters. I'll hook them up in series, so it will have a much lower heat output, but it's mostly just to defog the windshield and keep my girlfriend happy. It doesn't get that cold here in Southern California.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I don't see a reason why this relay won't work from Newark.com: 55K3124.
> You can get comparable relays at Digikey, I'm sure.
> 
> But, if you're nervous, you can get beefier ones.
> ...


Ya I was surprised as well it worked twice then never shut off , I disconnnected it a couple weeks ago and today followed up by tearing the relay apart, it was welded together at the contact area and the metal was heat colored,,, I also thought about running two of them in parallel to perhaps lighten the load on each one of them

Thanks for the options!!!

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Brian,

Now that I've seen your car sitting at a "reasonable" height, your avatar looks a little out of place.

Keep the updates coming, I'm watching with great envy, wishing I could progress as quickly on mine as you have yours.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

and yes perhaps 15 amps max but also 1500 watts and they are really rated for 12 vdc at 30-40 amps which = max 480 watts there lies the problem. and using two may not even be enough

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Brian,
> 
> Now that I've seen your car sitting at a "reasonable" height, your avatar looks a little out of place.
> 
> Keep the updates coming, I'm watching with great envy, wishing I could progress as quickly on mine as you have yours.



Ya now I need to close it up and take a new picture I will do it soon,, it does look so much better though


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

The relay only cares about the current and the voltage drop across itself (which is dependent on its resistance and the current). Which is why fuses, relays, connectors, etc usually only list their current limit. If they do list a voltage it's because of a threat of arcing, and no more. A 15A fuse will blow the same if it's from a 120V source or a 5V source. That being said, you can't always find the voltage rating for relays. There is a definite possibility that the "automotive" relays can't handle 120V, since they usually only see 12 or maybe 24 volts. That's why I sent you the link for the beefier ones. They can definitely handle 120VAC, and let's hope they can handle the 120VDC. DC is harder on switches/relays as you probably know.


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

since reverse is geared more like first, it seems to make sense that reverse is difficult to drive in. most EVers seem to start in 2nd gear. (unless Im misunderstanding and you are using the controller for reversing and not the reverse in the gear box)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

chamilun said:


> since reverse is geared more like first, it seems to make sense that reverse is difficult to drive in. most EVers seem to start in 2nd gear. (unless Im misunderstanding and you are using the controller for reversing and not the reverse in the gear box)


I am starting for the most part in first gear (sometimes second) i AM USING THE TRANNY FOR REVERSE NOT THE CONTROLLER

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

this is what I am thinking for the heater relay/ contactor

http://pewa.panasonic.com/pcsd/product/auto/pdf/mech_eng_eb.pdf

now to find it and the price


Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I went ahead and ordered this one

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=4BYd6zd2T8Vx0AoXTBbJpA==

its the same one Gav used in his car so I am sure it will be just fine

Brian


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> i AM USING THE TRANNY FOR REVERSE NOT THE CONTROLLER


Ow! No need to shout. My hearing is, well at least it was, quite good.


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## 84bertone (Apr 10, 2008)

Brian, I have the same LogiSystems controller and experienced the same reverse gear issue. I do not believe the controller is the problem here. 

The potboxes being built are made with too much nonlinear resistance on the front end. Some are better than others. With the lower gearing of most reverse gears, it is now very difficult to control the amount of ohms to the controller for smooth reverse operation.

I solved this by wiring a 0-1K, precision, 5 turn, potentiometer which only comes into the circuit when I am in reverse gear. The potentiometer is mounted on the dash. I can back up with the utmost of smoothness using this 1K pot as my control to the controller when in reverse.

I did discuss this with LogiSystems. They were most helpful and were very concerned with having me as a satisfied customer of their product.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Can you give a little more detail on how you did this? I don't think I have a choice but to do the same thing.

Ben




84bertone said:


> Brian, I have the same LogiSystems controller and experienced the same reverse gear issue. I do not believe the controller is the problem here.
> 
> The potboxes being built are made with too much nonlinear resistance on the front end. Some are better than others. With the lower gearing of most reverse gears, it is now very difficult to control the amount of ohms to the controller for smooth reverse operation.
> 
> ...


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## 84bertone (Apr 10, 2008)

_Can you give a little more detail on how you did this? I don't think I have a choice but to do the same thing.

Ben
_
Well If I could figure out how to post a diagram on this forum, it might make it easier to see what I did.

I purchased a double pole, double throw, switch from Radio Shack and a 0-1Kohm, 5 turn, precision potentiometer off e-bay. The switch and precision pot are mounted in the dash.

The ouput of the potbox is wired to one side of the DPDT switch and the precision pot is wired to the other side. This gives me the ability to select either the potbox or the 1K precision pot as my controlling source.

For forward movement, I throw the switch so I am in normal operation with the accelerator and potbox in the circuit. For reverse operation, I throw the switch and now my precision pot is in the circuit. I place the transmission in reverse, step on the accelerator slightly to engage the KSI relay and turn the pot on the dash to go backward with ever so precise control.

I know this sounds a bit complex but in practice it works beautifully. I do know how to send diagrams and pictures via e-mail so if you want any of that just let me know and I can zip that to you.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Ah, I understand. I had something much more complicated in mind I guess! LOL

It would be nice to be able to have a electric switch that could put the pot in the connection when the reverse switch in the transmission was thrown.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Qer said:


> Ow! No need to shout. My hearing is, well at least it was, quite good.


sorry man I hit the caps lock ( to lazy to go back and fix it ) ,not shouting I do know you can't read fast so I am typing thids slow. LOL

Again sorry man!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

84bertone said:


> _Can you give a little more detail on how you did this? I don't think I have a choice but to do the same thing.
> 
> Ben
> _
> ...


so I could actually use this in conjunction with the existing pot box, meaning the first 25% of the pot box I have does nothing I could wire in your prescision pot to move during the first 25% ( sort of like my pre pedal idea)(but yours is better) I see no reason why they both cannot be paralleled to the controller without a switch????

as for sending pics on here just go to additional options ( or advanced) click on manage attachments, browse your computer where the file is saved click on it, then hit the upload button, ( this may take some time) close that window and submit your reply.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Brian,
> 
> Now that I've seen your car sitting at a "reasonable" height, your avatar looks a little out of place.
> 
> Keep the updates coming, I'm watching with great envy, wishing I could progress as quickly on mine as you have yours.


OK I fixed it for you

much better

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

With his solution you would have to have a knob on the dash that acts as your accelerator pedal when the switch activates the 1k pot. I don't see how you could use them both in the circuit at the same time.... But using a DPDT Relay you could switch over via the backup switch or backup lights and then using a larger pot with an arm instead of a knob have finer control in reverse?

Am I understanding his solution properly?



> I place the transmission in reverse, step on the accelerator slightly to engage the KSI relay and turn the pot on the dash to go backward with ever so precise control.


Reading his post again I guess that I do. 


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I will do some experimenting and let ya's know

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm really enjoying how you are discovering all of these problems that I will probably face. Then I get to watch you figure out the solution without having to get my hands dirty! Keep up the good work.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

went to Radio Shack for a pot and of course the one on the web site is different than the one in the store. I guess they will not work together in parallel but they could easily be isolated through the reverse lights ( to a relay) but reverse is not only what I want to fix, I am also concerned about forward take off as well. I just see the Curtis controller guys at the EV club taking off so slow and smooth it makes me ill, but the noise it makes sucks (but I think I would prefer the noise) Mabey I will play more with the controller pots???

brian

Bottom Feeder --- glad I can be your Guinea Pig!!! LOL ( your time is coming though)


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

I picked up a 2 pole 4 throw relay and a 0-500 Ohm pot with the same size arm as the one on the curtis pot box at lunch. With this I can fix my reverse problem (via reverse switch) and provide a "valet" switch  Total cost was $7.

Now, I wonder if we couldnt solve all of these problems with a better, more sensitive, pot in the pot box? Mine is very jumpy below 1k. Thoughts?


Ben in SC


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> I picked up a 2 pole 4 throw relay and a 0-500 Ohm pot with the same size arm as the one on the curtis pot box at lunch. With this I can fix my reverse problem (via reverse switch) and provide a "valet" switch  Total cost was $7.
> 
> ...


I just wonder if they are poor quality pots that we have? And why can't they adjust for 0-1K the first inch of travel then expo it up from there to the full 5K?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I just tested my pot and at rest (with my mod to it) it is at 2.6 ohms???? As I press the pedal down it does seem to go up slowly, I guess the controller needs to see 3 ohms (or so) before it activates? (or should it activate the controller at .01 ohms) Or perhaps this is the resistance of the wire?? I tested it at the controller with the wires unplugged. Really confused now.

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

AFAIK the controller doesn't need to see resistance when it is powered on. Your pot box is just slightly out of alignment. I can get a good pot 0-5k for around $20 but wonder if it would help....

You say that it goes up slowly but how many degrees of travel does it take to reach 500ohms? I plan to test tonight with a 270 degree 0-500 pot to see if that provides enough range to get up to a decent speed in reverse. If it does I'm going to mount it to the potbox and tie the two arms together. Thats my plan at least until you come up with something better 


Ben


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

2.6 ohms is essentially 0 in this situation. I'm sure the controller has a threshold of ~50-100 ohms before it actually kicks on. You can ask Logisystems about this, of course.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> AFAIK the controller doesn't need to see resistance when it is powered on. Your pot box is just slightly out of alignment. I can get a good pot 0-5k for around $20 but wonder if it would help....
> 
> You say that it goes up slowly but how many degrees of travel does it take to reach 500ohms? I plan to test tonight with a 270 degree 0-500 pot to see if that provides enough range to get up to a decent speed in reverse. If it does I'm going to mount it to the potbox and tie the two arms together. Thats my plan at least until you come up with something better
> 
> ...


well its a 5k (5000 ohm) pot and it moves 80-90 degrees ???? to get to the max.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

with all the issues I have been having charging the traction battery I never bothered to check the small 17AH battery, so I checked it and it was at 10.6 VDC OUCH. So I readjusted the DC to DC to 14.8 volts, I will be checking this more closely from now on, I just came back from a 7 mile trip and its seams ok for now,,, just cracked 200 EV miles as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Congrats! Hey, did I miss it, where's the obligatory EV-Grin Video?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Congrats! Hey, did I miss it, where's the obligatory EV-Grin Video?


Well DJ I guess this is a grin,, it still may be processing but it should be up an working pretty soon (assuming I did it right)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcS_XdHb1XY

Brian

checked it out it works

never mind the dancing girls!!!!!!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I see what you mean by that jerky reverse. Hmmmm. That is extremely odd. I sure hope you guys figure the problem out (before I'm done with my conversion).

Looks like a fun car!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I see what you mean by that jerky reverse. Hmmmm. That is extremely odd. I sure hope you guys figure the problem out (before I'm done with my conversion).
> 
> Looks like a fun car!


reverse it not nearly as bad now but still needs work in my opinion. The initial ones there were pretty bad. The car is a blast I look forward to driving it every day, still get goose bumps when I get in it.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> Well DJ I guess this is a grin,, it still may be processing but it should be up an working pretty soon (assuming I did it right)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcS_XdHb1XY
> 
> ...


ha! I thought you were kidding about the dancing girls... I have a ten year old girl too... so I know all about it.

The car looks great. Congrats.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ha! I thought you were kidding about the dancing girls... I have a ten year old girl too... so I know all about it.
> 
> The car looks great. Congrats.


still working on my editing skills,

brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> Is there any reason not to use these fuses to protect the wire coming from the rear packs to the front of the car?? I see you can also spen a ton of money on fuses, I don't anticipate using 500 amps but ????
> 
> http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/fu-ane-500.htm
> 
> Brian


forgive me if this has been asked/answered in the past, but did you use this fuse? if so, how is it working for you?

thanks!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

rctous said:


> never mind the dancing girls!!!!!!


Hey, nothing wrong with an EV Cheerleading Squad.   

Awesome! Thanks for the vid!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Your welcome

Hey pretty neat stuff going on here thsi afternoon,, Fox 4 news is coming over to do a story on the E Car. They will be here in about an hour or so, told them we'd go for a ride so I want to take them out on the highway yee haw. I will see when it airs then I will DVR it, after that I will cam cord the TV playing it then I will U TUBE it, should be pretty cool as long as I don't give them whip lash. I backed the car into the drive way so at least I can start off moving forward. Little nervous but I am sure all will go well.

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Awesome!


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Brian,

How did they hear about your car? Cant wait to see the vid!

Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> forgive me if this has been asked/answered in the past, but did you use this fuse? if so, how is it working for you?
> 
> thanks!


yes that is the fuse I have in right now, still the first one as well. Not real sure why you you want to spend 40 or so bucks on a ceramic one?? I also have the spare shrink wrapped over the other one so if it blows no looking for a new one


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Brian,
> 
> How did they hear about your car? Cant wait to see the vid!
> 
> Ben


That would be me,, I sent them an e-mail at 7 PM last night and they called me about 7:30PM

they called this AM to confirm the time that they would be here. (about an hour) tic tic tic tic

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

You might ask if they can give you a DVD of the segment, and the rights to show the video on your website. It's the least they can do for bringing the story to them, and will give you a better quality video for youtube upload as well.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> You might ask if they can give you a DVD of the segment, and the rights to show the video on your website. It's the least they can do for bringing the story to them, and will give you a better quality video for youtube upload as well.


oh you know I will ask!!! But thanks for the reminder

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I am going to have my wife shoot some video while they are doing the story as well so I may have a "behind the scenes" vid up pretty soon!

Brian


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

That'll be cool. Can't wait to see the blooper reel!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

The guy I'm working with will surely want some free advertising as well when we're done. He's hoping to shift his business model over to converting cars, rather than just fixing them. I'm hoping that my car will gather enough interest that a few people elect to use his services. It's the least I can do for all of the hard work he's putting into it.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

rctous said:


> reverse it not nearly as bad now but still needs work in my opinion.


What about putting a swamping resistor across the pot box when you are in reverse? You can automate it with a relay driven by the reverse-light switch.

See the excerpt below from the Curtis 1231C Manual.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

In the excerpt is sais that low end speed won't be effected and that exactly what we want to effect!

Thoughts?

Ben


PS. Brian, any word on the news?


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> In the excerpt is sais that low end speed won't be effected and that exactly what we want to effect!
> 
> Thoughts?


If we set the max reverse speed to something very low, 5 or 10 mph for example, it may help. 

It's worth a try, someone could rig something up using a toggle switch and clip leads as a proof-of-concept. 

My car is still a couple-of-weeks away from being drivable. If nobody tries it by then, then I will volunteer to be the guinea pig.

Joe


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well here are a few pics of todays evente with the news went very well until disaster struck ( Frikin Murphy) I will get to that later,, after these I will post the video my wife took then I will cam cord the tv and show the rest. After the inital interview we went for a ride then a couple hours later we did a live feed at the 5 o clock news then another on the 6 o clock news it was pretty cool


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

well here it is ( it may still be a minute or so before U tube is done with it but here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPvcu9lQz6Q

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Now for the disaster part

I let the reporter drive the car all was fine till we stopped, when he took off he had it in third gear going up hill and nearly floored it,, the fuse blew I thought no biggy but after replacing the fuse still nothing,,,,,,, it took out the controller. OH WELL of it goes tomorrow for its first (hopefully last) visit to the repair shop..

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> well here it is ( it may still be a minute or so before U tube is done with it but here is the link
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPvcu9lQz6Q
> 
> Brian


That is very cool! Congrats. Nothing like getting some air time eh? If it convinces one other person to do it.. then all worth while.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

YES YES YES!!! Brilliant!!

Could have done without the weather man's "golf cart" remark......

Its been great following this thread, Brian. You and those before you are an example for the rest of us.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> YES YES YES!!! Brilliant!!
> 
> Could have done without the weather man's "golf cart" remark......
> 
> Its been great following this thread, Brian. You and those before you are an example for the rest of us.


The weather man the dancing girls heck what else do ya need? I know i can edit but that just takes time,,,, I am learning.

Brian

it was a very long good day!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Nahh, don't worry about it. I was just annoyed with him for trying to be smart. NEVs and golf carts that are passed of as EVs are a pet peeve of mine and don't like it when some one compares them to a real electric car like yours.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Just took the controller out and have it sitting at the front door to get picked up by FED EX. I am still not sure why there is no protection for over ampping? or what ever happened,,, not entirely sure. It does rattle an awful lot though. Well I guess we get to see how there service is, and their warranty, I am sure it is covered. (better be)

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

This isn't a good turn of events. I thought for sure that it would protected from a high throttle event. Some component must've gotten rather hot inside! I'm really curious what Logisystems suggests.

-D


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> This isn't a good turn of events. I thought for sure that it would protected from a high throttle event. Some component must've gotten rather hot inside! I'm really curious what Logisystems suggests.
> 
> -D


the controller did not feel hot and we were only about 2 miles into the trip?????

Still awaiting the return call from logisystems


Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

WOW, just WOW, please keep us updated, especially those of us that have that same controller. I, like you, thought that it had some internal protection but I guess not.

Hope they turn it around fast for you.


Ben


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Hey Brian,

Looks like a great story, despite the weatherman's comment and the lack of any drive-time video due to the breakdown. Perhaps a follow-up can be had after the controller's sorted.

I'd think the controller should have adequately controlled the current, after all, that's what it's for... still, asking for all the amps in 3rd gear from a stop is a daunting task for any controller.  (and yet, people still insist they want to do away with their gearboxes!  )


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

rctous said:


> I went ahead and ordered this one
> 
> http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=4BYd6zd2T8Vx0AoXTBbJpA==
> 
> ...


I mis posted the relay the one that was there was 110-220vac coil I have fixed it to the right one
I sent the wrong one back today for exchange,, sorry if I screwed any one up but here is the right one

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=4BYd6zd2T8Vx0AoXTBbJpA==

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Hey Brian,
> 
> Looks like a great story, despite the weatherman's comment and the lack of any drive-time video due to the breakdown. Perhaps a follow-up can be had after the controller's sorted.
> 
> I'd think the controller should have adequately controlled the current, after all, that's what it's for... still, asking for all the amps in 3rd gear from a stop is a daunting task for any controller.  (and yet, people still insist they want to do away with their gearboxes!  )


I would have thought that it would have limited itself to its max allowable current and went into an overcurrent mode or something. A pause or a 5 sec shut down anything but blowing up. I know that most all the controllers in the rc world will generally just stop and reset but these are not RC controllers are they? Heck whats the purpose of the fuse? Oh ya protect the wire, not the controller.

you would think that they would have considered this will happen (starting in the wrong gear) to more people than just me and its a very expensive fix on their part, when it should have been built in from the start. ( my opinion )

Brian


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> you would think that they would have considered this will happen (starting in the wrong gear) to more people than just me and its a very expensive fix on their part, when it should have been built in from the start. ( my opinion )


I share that opinion and, well, the controller should be protected even if you never floor it. I mean, the motor might be faulty, you could get a short circuit or whatever. I think it's bad craftsmanship to not add current- and temperature protection.

But then, I guess that's why the controllers are (relatively) cheap...


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I wonder if using a 250A or 300A fuse would prevent such a catastrophe. As I understand things, it wouldn't blow with a second of 500A, but it would blow after a few seconds. How long did your fuse hold out at 500A before it blew?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I wonder if using a 250A or 300A fuse would prevent such a catastrophe. As I understand things, it wouldn't blow with a second of 500A, but it would blow after a few seconds. How long did your fuse hold out at 500A before it blew?


The problem is that you usually have the fuse on the primary side (ie the battery pack side) and even if you have a 1000 Ampere controller it won't draw 500 Ampere from the pack if you floor it while standing still. A motor that stands still (or close to) get a very low voltage over it and since a controller converts Watt (which is Volt times Ampere) it means that a high current but low voltage on the motor side results in a high voltage but low current on the battery pack site. To make things worse, this is the absoute worst situation for the controller, so if it's gonna blow it's in exactly this moment; when you try to burn away at full throttle from a stand-still. If the controller survives that it'll probably survive anything else.

With other words, if you want to protect the controller with a fuse you should put the fuse in the motor end instead (the other fuse is protecting the battery pack rather than the controller). Unfortunately a fuse in the motor end might mean a lot of blown fuses if you have a tendency to be just a bit too frisky with the accelerator at the red lights (since that's when the current will peak) while putting a smaller fuse in the battery pack end will probably mean you're not protect your controller from a similar faith (due to the rather low current in the pack end) but instead that will blow on the highway when the battery current goes high (but the motor current is not much higher due to greater speed and thus higher voltage which is less stressful for the controller).


----------



## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I wonder if using a 250A or 300A fuse would prevent such a catastrophe. As I understand things, it wouldn't blow with a second of 500A, but it would blow after a few seconds. How long did your fuse hold out at 500A before it blew?


not sure but I do not think very long we moved mabey 10-15 feet total then a loud "thunk"
which I am presumming to be the immediate stop of torque from the motor resonating through the whole car,, when (what ever) blew it blew fast. I believe the controller blew first then the fuse.

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I wonder if using a 250A or 300A fuse would prevent such a catastrophe. As I understand things, it wouldn't blow with a second of 500A, but it would blow after a few seconds. How long did your fuse hold out at 500A before it blew?


not to sure , I have my shunt going out from the controller to the motor and at most take offs (even gradual ones) I see 450 amps for the first 2-3 seconds then usually about 300-350 till I get up to speed. (35mph).

my point is I think I would blow a smaller fuse lots, now putting the fuse on the outside of the controller to the motor may have some potential. but what amperage fuse???? I guess a guy could experiment ,,,but????????????

brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It is my understanding that Logisystems, like Curtis, use pulse width modulation to control the motor. This means that the voltage given to the motor is the full pack voltage, just turning off and on very quickly. I don't think it is acting like some sort of variable DC transformer, converting high volts, low amps to low volts, high amps. Perhaps other controllers do that, but I'm not sure.

If I'm correct, then it doesn't matter where the fuse is, before the controller or after. They both experience the same volts and amps.

BTW: Fuses blow because of a thermal effect. As long as the modulation of the PWM is higher than the thermal time scale of the fuse, then the modulation between full current and no current doesn't affect the fuse, it only sees the average. The modulation is above audible range (except for the notorious Curtis at low speed) so we know it's >15Khz. The thermal time scale of the fuse is more like a few seconds, so this works out.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> It is my understanding that Logisystems, like Curtis, use pulse width modulation to control the motor. This means that the voltage given to the motor is the full pack voltage, just turning off and on very quickly. I don't think it is acting like some sort of variable DC transformer, converting high volts, low amps to low volts, high amps. Perhaps other controllers do that, but I'm not sure.
> 
> If I'm correct, then it doesn't matter where the fuse is, before the controller or after. They both experience the same volts and amps.
> 
> BTW: Fuses blow because of a thermal effect. As long as the modulation of the PWM is higher than the thermal time scale of the fuse, then the modulation between full current and no current doesn't affect the fuse, it only sees the average. The modulation is above audible range (except for the notorious Curtis at low speed) so we know it's >15Khz. The thermal time scale of the fuse is more like a few seconds, so this works out.


you are correct as far as I know on the controller,, speed controllers for RC work the same way they deliver full pack voltage all the time the difference being how long the gate is open, and we are talking miliseconds here. I think there was probably a 1000amp surge for enough time to blow up the controller then the fuse followed. When I put a replacement fuse back in there was no spark or anything so I am sure it's BLOWED UP GOOD!

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Wow, you're pulling a lot more amps than I thought you would. That may say more about my assumptions than your car.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> not to sure , I have my shunt going out from the controller to the motor and at most take offs (even gradual ones) I see 450 amps for the first 2-3 seconds then usually about 300-350 till I get up to speed. (35mph).


So perhaps putting a fuse of 500 Ampere on the motor side could be something? Of course, it won't be fun if you blow it at a red light in rush hour. 



Bottomfeeder said:


> It is my understanding that Logisystems, like Curtis, use pulse width modulation to control the motor. This means that the voltage given to the motor is the full pack voltage, just turning off and on very quickly. I don't think it is acting like some sort of variable DC transformer, converting high volts, low amps to low volts, high amps. Perhaps other controllers do that, but I'm not sure.
> 
> If I'm correct, then it doesn't matter where the fuse is, before the controller or after. They both experience the same volts and amps.


Uhm. Well. Yes, but you're forgetting that the powerless part of the PWM also contributes (or rather, doesn't contribute) to the average level of power.

The power in the motor is the average of voltage times current, so even if the pack voltage switches on and off fast, delivering the power in short bursts, the average power out will still be the same as average power in. The power from the battery pack to the controller will be pretty static, usually this is achieved with big capacitors on the input of the controller to smooth out the spikes, where the power from the controller to the motor will be severely chopped up. To make things even more fun, the power bursts won't be a nice square wave due to the inductance in the motor but rather a ramp function that smooths out the raw edges in the motor end as well, but that's besides the point, really.

Anyway, the resulting power in the motor, and in the fuse, will be depending on the average current over time and even if the spikes probably can peak way above 1000 Amperes I bet the fuse will hold until the average current goes over 500 Ampere. Because, still, the average voltage will be lower in the motor end than in the pack end at stand still. If the voltage in the motor end ever reaches full pack voltage at a stand still something will give, burning up due to excessive power, because the current will spike close to geostationary orbit...

I wonder if I really made sense. It feels like I need a white board to explain how I mean.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I think I understand what you're trying to say Qer. The voltage isn't a pretty square wave on the motor side. But, I think because the modulation is at such a high frequency the fuse only sees the average amps passing through it. So, all of the current spikes, ramp up, and whatnot don't affect the fuse. It operates at a slower time scale (a thermal one). And since the average power in is the same as the average power out, it won't make a difference to the fuse which side it's on. But, you protect more if you put it on the battery pack side. I suppose you could always do both!


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## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian, It will be interesting to see how long your repair takes. Logisystems changed their controllers recently and they have been quite behind. I ordered mine in the first week of August and I still have not received my controller. When I talked to them awhile ago to see how things were progressing they said between the changes and having a batch of bad controllers???? they were trying to get repaired, they hoped to be caught up on orders by the end of September.(oh is it the end of Sept YET!) I wonder if you had the new or the old version? I am sure you will keep us posted. SInce they have no published info on the web, let us know where they sugest the fuse to be put and how many amps do they recomend?

Chris


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I am not sure what version I had I believe the date on the controller was may or june 08 but not sure I hope it was one of the bad ones and they have the problem resolved by now,, if they tell me it will be a month or so for the repair it looks like a curtis will wingd up in the car ( with a fulll refund from them ) , at this point I need to give them the benefit of the doubt ,,,but later????????? Time will tell. And I will surley keep you all posted, customer service in cases like this make the great companies stand out.

Brian


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

rctous said:


> I am not sure what version I had I believe the date on the controller was may or june 08 but not sure I hope it was one of the bad ones and they have the problem resolved by now,, if they tell me it will be a month or so for the repair it looks like a curtis will wingd up in the car ( with a fulll refund from them ) , at this point I need to give them the benefit of the doubt ,,,but later????????? Time will tell. And I will surley keep you all posted, customer service in cases like this make the great companies stand out.
> 
> Brian


If they are anything like Net Gain you will be in luck. With a 6 mo backlog they had replaced my Warp11 (with the bent shaft) with a new one in 10 days, door to door. Hope the same for you Brian.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Sorry about your controller Brian. Your car looks fantastic!! Got to be tough to get it going, get the EV, and the have to wait for a new controller! Keep the faith!
JACK


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

rut roh

i just got my logisystems controller this week, monday i think.
it has june 08 on the sticker . i bought it from grassroots jon there told me that logisystems was having a problem with controllers and they we're back logged a little so i ordered and figured it would show up in a few weeks . it was here Fast .
I was a little disappointed when i took it out of the box , kinda looked used with some rough gouges on the cooling fin . well here it is .
I will punch the hell out of the car at some point and I hope this controller has what it takes . i guess i better call someone and ask what the dealio is . Brian I 'll be watching to see what logisystems has for a reason why it went poof .
thanks
DD

mine came with instructions for tuning the controller saying to take out the 3 screws on the side to tune or you could seriously blow things up . it looked like alot of tuning needed to be done , did you have difficulty tuning


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Hmmmm, My controller is 750amp and only has one adjustment screw...... It's the 120v-144v controller though.

Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> rut roh
> 
> i just got my logisystems controller this week, monday i think.
> it has june 08 on the sticker . i bought it from grassroots jon there told me that logisystems was having a problem with controllers and they we're back logged a little so i ordered and figured it would show up in a few weeks . it was here Fast .
> ...


The tuning was simple 2nd and 3rd pots full CW position 1st pot full CCw position anything other than this really made the just creap along slowly, the more I turned up pot #1 the jerkerier the starts were. Of course it took me some time to figure that out.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Hmmmm, My controller is 750amp and only has one adjustment screw...... It's the 120v-144v controller though.
> 
> Ben


what did the directions say that one screw did??????????

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> rut roh
> 
> i just got my logisystems controller this week, monday i think.
> it has june 08 on the sticker . i bought it from grassroots jon there told me that logisystems was having a problem with controllers and they we're back logged a little so i ordered and figured it would show up in a few weeks . it was here Fast .
> ...


Also mine did look a bit rough when I got it as well, not bad but not prefect either, know when I talked to them 3 weeks ago they mentioned when they do warranty the keep the outer alum shell and just slide in new "guts" so perhaps they have been replaced with new guts then shipped on to us. I really do not care as long as they get replaced with new parts, also I hope this is one that did have issues withit and I hope it gets all the new stuff that has been updated re-installed

Brian


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> And since the average power in is the same as the average power out, it won't make a difference to the fuse which side it's on.


But it will make a difference since the current will be higher on the motor side and that the combination of high current but low voltage at the motor side is the thing that's the hardest on the controller.

Uh, I should probably draw a graph or something to explain what I mean, but it's soon dinner time here.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

talked to a guy today , said he blew his logisystems 2 or 3 times atleast twice #1822 on evalbum 144SFFX 550 120-144V.... I'm like great


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> talked to a guy today , said he blew his logisystems 2 or 3 times atleast twice #1822 on evalbum 144SFFX 550 120-144V.... I'm like great


I hope logisysyems learned from him and fixed the issues for the rest of us

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well my plates came in so I tossed them on the car

Also the 17AH battery I choose isn't doing so well so I whipped this pack up, it i snot in finished form yet but I wanted to see how it charged an a regular 12 volt charger. Seemed to charge OK but not to sure if the voltage went high enough to fully charge it so I may take a cell out of it and make it a 9 cell instead of a 10 cell. These are 10 AH NiMH "D" cells. I will let ya know how it works

Brian


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

Do not put the fuse in the motor loop! It is almost guaranteed to blow your controller when it goes. The motor inductance does not like change, if it has 500Amps flowing through it when the fuse blows, then it will continue pushing 500 Amps at any cost. The result is a huge voltage spike that will cause something to break down so the current can continue flowing.

Same with the battery wiring inductance. If the fuse is on the motor side then the inductance can cause a destructive voltage spike on the controller input when the fuse suddenly blows.

Further, what blows the fuse is current. The heating of the fuse is equal to current squared times the fuse resistance. While the power into and out of the controller is the same, the current on the motor side is much higher at low speeds.








Bottomfeeder said:


> It is my understanding that Logisystems, like Curtis, use pulse width modulation to control the motor. This means that the voltage given to the motor is the full pack voltage, just turning off and on very quickly. I don't think it is acting like some sort of variable DC transformer, converting high volts, low amps to low volts, high amps. Perhaps other controllers do that, but I'm not sure.
> 
> If I'm correct, then it doesn't matter where the fuse is, before the controller or after. They both experience the same volts and amps.
> 
> BTW: Fuses blow because of a thermal effect. As long as the modulation of the PWM is higher than the thermal time scale of the fuse, then the modulation between full current and no current doesn't affect the fuse, it only sees the average. The modulation is above audible range (except for the notorious Curtis at low speed) so we know it's >15Khz. The thermal time scale of the fuse is more like a few seconds, so this works out.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ya that makes sense to me I do not have the fuse between the motor and controller and will leave it as it is 

Brian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

rctous said:


> Well my plates came in so I tossed them on the car
> 
> Also the 17AH battery I choose isn't doing so well so I whipped this pack up, it i snot in finished form yet but I wanted to see how it charged an a regular 12 volt charger. Seemed to charge OK but not to sure if the voltage went high enough to fully charge it so I may take a cell out of it and make it a 9 cell instead of a 10 cell. These are 10 AH NiMH "D" cells. I will let ya know how it works
> 
> Brian


Ive used cells of that brand to rebuild some batteries for our electric cordless drills. Only they were 2/3 "A" size. The performed as well as the original NiCad, but the tabs kept getting hot and melting the solder and causing loss of power. The tabs did not appear to be capable of flowing the rated current. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Ive used cells of that brand to rebuild some batteries for our electric cordless drills. Only they were 2/3 "A" size. The performed as well as the original NiCad, but the tabs kept getting hot and melting the solder and causing loss of power. The tabs did not appear to be capable of flowing the rated current. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.


The only current they need to handle is about 2 amps to turn on the contactor, once the contactor is on the DC to DC takes over. We use these tabs on all the packs we build for the rc cars and they draw upwards of 50-60 amps, when we rebuild drill packs we double the tabs,, when we first started rebuilding drill packs 6 years ago we did have the issue with the tabs melting.

Brian

not trying to be a smart alec but here is what we do for a living for the last 7 years

www.tanicpacks.com


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

rctous said:


> not trying to be a smart alec but here is what we do for a living for the last 7 years
> 
> www.tanicpacks.com


I am so jealous.....


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

peggus said:


> Do not put the fuse in the motor loop! It is almost guaranteed to blow your controller when it goes. The motor inductance does not like change, if it has 500Amps flowing through it when the fuse blows, then it will continue pushing 500 Amps at any cost.


Good thinking. D'oh me...

You could solve it by putting a flyback diode directly over the motor though, but it's a clumsy solution. The RIGHT solution is of course a controller that's self preserving enough to shut down gracefully before the current builds up to harakiri-levels...


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Just spoke with Logisystems, pretty good company I would have to say. readilly admitted there have been some issues and they have a fix for the problem, of course that fix is two weeks away. Thats OK though they seem pretty solid and customer service was very important to them. I will keep you in the loop as I hope to get it back in the next couple weeks.

Brian

Still depressed though, went to our EV club meeting yesturday with NO CAR!!!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

They didn't have another that they could just ship out to you?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> They didn't have another that they could just ship out to you?



I wished,,,I may have been able to push for that ,, but they do not have the new circuitry done yet either and I would prefer to wait for the newest latest and greatest, as I already know the old doesn't work.

Brian


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> I wished,,,I may have been able to push for that ,, but they do not have the new circuitry done yet either and I would prefer to wait for the newest latest and greatest, as I already know the old doesn't work.


Ah, go for the old one and just forbid reporters to test it and you'll be fine.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

rctous said:


> I wished,,,I may have been able to push for that ,, but they do not have the new circuitry done yet either and I would prefer to wait for the newest latest and greatest, as I already know the old doesn't work.
> 
> Brian



Who did you speak with? I'm waiting on a call back from Jim.......


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Who did you speak with? I'm waiting on a call back from Jim.......
> 
> 
> Ben


Jim as well ( he is the general manager)

he's tough to get a hold of though.


Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Just got back the first 2 chargers from Joplar Group and of course they work flawlessley, I sent them 3 more today for tweaking and when I get those back I will send them three more and so on till they are all done. Since I have 2 extras and my new Duracell charger 3 is all I can give up at a time, but so far looking good, (cancelled the order on the Zivan) I still am convinced a seperate charger per battery is the better way to go.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Qer said:


> Ah, go for the old one and just forbid reporters to test it and you'll be fine.


probably true BUT I don't think it should have blowed up just because what he did? I will wait patiently for two weeks the I won't be as patient but again give them the benifit of the doubt. So far I am pleased with them. Time will tell

Brian


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

rctous said:


> The tuning was simple 2nd and 3rd pots full CW position 1st pot full CCw position anything other than this really made the just creap along slowly, the more I turned up pot #1 the jerkerier the starts were. Of course it took me some time to figure that out.
> 
> Brian


Brian,

You probably went through all the different scenarios when you were tuning but I wanted to throw out the settings that are recommended in the document that came with my logisystems controller.

They say to start out with 1 and 3 full CCW and 2 full CW, then as you turn up 3, you turn down 2. They seem to work together. They do not recommend full CW on 2 and 3 at the same time. 

Mine won't be running for about two weeks, so I can't try any tuning, but I am going to follow the advice that came with my controller and hope for the best.

Steve


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

notnull said:


> Brian,
> 
> You probably went through all the different scenarios when you were tuning but I wanted to throw out the settings that are recommended in the document that came with my logisystems controller.
> 
> ...


Ya I started off that way and no matter what I did I barley had enough power to move let alone accelerate , I did some min max and mid mid scenarios to actually feel what they did before I wound up at the setting I have now. And from the sounds of it your directions are quite different than mine.

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It's great to hear that your chargers are working out afterall. I will open mine up this week and tune them using an e-load, which is how they do it at the factory. I'm hoping that everything goes as simple as they made it sound. But, it's good to see that they can/will work with some tweaking.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> It's great to hear that your chargers are working out afterall. I will open mine up this week and tune them using an e-load, which is how they do it at the factory. I'm hoping that everything goes as simple as they made it sound. But, it's good to see that they can/will work with some tweaking.


ya I am relieved as well,, the servics at Joplar was awesome as well. Aparently all you will need to tweak is tha bottom (4th) pot, I noticed though when I touched any pot it seemed to have an effect on them all.

Brian

by the way what makes an e-load different different than say 18 lightbulbs in series and parallel? I am able to change the current pretty much from 2 amps to 20 amps ,, during my tweaking I set it at 12 amps, then experimented from there


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

To be honest, I don't fully know. The e-load has many great options like constant current, power or resistance. He said to use the constant resistance mode when tweaking the 4th pot, as the charger behaves better. I haven't spent too much time with e-loads in this situation, but in my line of work (fuel cells), e-loads are a must. Before anyone asks any dumb questions: No, our fuel cells will not go into cars for at least a decade. We're still in the R&D phase of development.

Why aren't you sending all of your chargers in while your controller is catching some R&R?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> To be honest, I don't fully know. The e-load has many great options like constant current, power or resistance. He said to use the constant resistance mode when tweaking the 4th pot, as the charger behaves better. I haven't spent too much time with e-loads in this situation, but in my line of work (fuel cells), e-loads are a must. Before anyone asks any dumb questions: No, our fuel cells will not go into cars for at least a decade. We're still in the R&D phase of development.
> 
> Why aren't you sending all of your chargers in while your controller is catching some R&R?


Ya I thought of that but after I get the three back that means i have 5 good ones the remaing 5 are acting like they are working ok so its not a huge deal

plus I am keeping all the cells on float charge as well.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

WOW GUYS I am overwhelmed on the amount of interest that my thread has brought to this group,, I never would have imagined I would surpass the "STICKY" I hope we have all learned from it , I sure have,, again thanks for all your interest!!!!

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

hey guys I am getting my web page set up for EV conversion stuff, it will be slow going I am sure from the start www.tanicev.com will be the site I literely have nothing there yet but will be working on it daily stating now, I will be offering couplers on there and I need a volunteer. I think the retail price will be about 150 bucks and I need to do one for someone to get the pictures up and so on. I do not want to build one for no reason and would like to offer 50% off for your coupler (ya 75 bucks). The couple will have a 1/4" key way and 2 set screws. I will need shaft diameter your existing clutch plate and the total length you need the coupler, it should take me less than a week to make it all once I receive the clutch plate from you. If anyone is interested call me or PM me and I will call you 800-728-6976 is the toll free #. By the way this is intended to be for a "clutchless set up. I can do the other but would rather start simple.

Thanks

brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

dude... you announce this two days AFTER I send my stuff off to be machined??? lol... well, a great deal for those who haven't reached that stage anyway


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Brian,

If I can help in any way let me know.... I AM a photographer, after all.... I also do some basic design work.

Dave


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> WOW GUYS I am overwhelmed on the amount of interest that my thread has brought to this group,, I never would have imagined I would surpass the "STICKY" I hope we have all learned from it , I sure have,, again thanks for all your interest!!!!
> 
> Brian


hey.. you've completed a well designed, very clean conversion with good detail. It is VERY helpful for those of us who either haven't yet started or are still in the planing/doing phase. You deserve to have rec'd so much attention.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

so you mean LIKE THIS


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> dude... you announce this two days AFTER I send my stuff off to be machined??? lol... well, a great deal for those who haven't reached that stage anyway


sorry man I had to get the web up ( should have added something to it first but I got all excited just to get it up. The price I hope seems fair? Even at retail

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> so you mean LIKE THIS


pretty much exactly what I am talking about

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> Brian,
> 
> If I can help in any way let me know.... I AM a photographer, after all.... I also do some basic design work.
> 
> Dave


hey dave nice to hear from you,, I will let you know as soon as I have a need for your great skills!!! Hows the conversiong coming along?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> dude... you announce this two days AFTER I send my stuff off to be machined??? lol... well, a great deal for those who haven't reached that stage anyway


what ,,, if I may ask did the coupler cost you?



brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> what ,,, if I may ask did the couple cost you?
> 
> 
> 
> brian


I was told "no more than $250"... so yes, $150 you want to charge is a GREAT price... even at retail.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

rctous said:


> probably true BUT I don't think it should have blowed up just because what he did?


Quite true. A PWM-controller made for running a motor definitely should be able to shut down when the induction current peaks away at insane rates. However, they're not the first ones to have the problem, Curtis did "fix" the problem by making the motor squeal.



rctous said:


> WOW GUYS I am overwhelmed on the amount of interest that my thread has brought to this group,, I never would have imagined I would surpass the "STICKY" I hope we have all learned from it , I sure have,, again thanks for all your interest!!!!


Well, you've written a lot about your conversion and at least I am a wanna-be that want to learn as much as possible from others before attempting the big plunge myself. Go figure.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

One of THESE?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> One of THESE?


yup that to,

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> so you mean LIKE THIS


 I used your picture on the web I hope you do not mind
brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

well here is the final pic of the 12 volt NiMH battery I am going to try as my battery for the car, I will take more pics after I get it in the car

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well here it is in the car. It sure looks dinky but seems to work just fine so far. Notice I busted a fan blade on one of the fans while moving them while they were spinning. (dumb).

Brian


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Hey, if that battery pack works I'll buy one from you.... or barter, whatever....

I've been very busy on other projects.... such as my aunt's kitchen that I am remodeling, plus I've been pretty sick the last two weeks... I haven't even set foot in the garage for anything other than taking out the trash.... depressing.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> Hey, if that battery pack works I'll buy one from you.... or barter, whatever....
> 
> I've been very busy on other projects.... such as my aunt's kitchen that I am remodeling, plus I've been pretty sick the last two weeks... I haven't even set foot in the garage for anything other than taking out the trash.... depressing.


bummer dude I hate being sick,, ya let me test this one for a bit first heck I thought the last 17AH battery would work as well but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

it is tiny which is cool

B


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

yes, size factor is very nice. I probably have 2 months to go yet, so test away.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> yes, size factor is very nice. I probably have 2 months to go yet, so test away.


we will have to see how soon I get back the controller they received it today so we will see

Brian

Heck get 100 of these packs and use it as your traction battery


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

how much, heavy, and capacity?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dpringle said:


> how much, heavy, and capacity?


welllllllllllllllll 100 of those packs would bee 1000 cells the voltage would be 120 nominal
the AH would be 100 ah ( of course you could do any thing you wanted it just costs more money. I am a dealer for these so my cost is lower but lets just assume this is the price you would be paying for built packs http://www.all-battery.com/20pcsofdsize10000mahhighcapacityhighratenimhrechargeablebatteries.aspx

basically $7.44 per cell x 1000 = $7440.00, the cool thing is the weight 1000 cells would weigh ( not counting wire tabs etc ) .36 pounds per cell = a total traction pack weight of 360 pounds that is the cool part,, now I am not even sure where to tell ya to start with BMS or charging although there are chargers that will do 10 amps and 36 cells in series in the rc market but I am sure you could get a charger for this pretty easy,, a standard 120 vdc charger would not properly charge these I am sure but I was looking into it before I started my car and they are available Ibelieve the Zivan NG3 can be programmed to do it.

will that be Visa or Master Card? LOL

its actually not so bad if you can get say 100,000 miles from it,, but pretty expensive experiment that may or may not work to well,, I would think it would work..

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I knew sooner or later I would need to add distilled water to the batteries and the whole turkey baster thing had me concerned that it would be such a waste of time and effort, so here is what I came up with. It is a standard RC glow fuel pump. It runs off 12 vdc and pumps or sucks. I thought perhaps the flow would be to fast but I tell ya it is perfect. I need to add a vent tube to the top and I am going to replace the "stock switch with a momentary toggle, just let go thet way. I filled a couple batteries very fast and no mess. I will send pics as I modify things a bit. This by the way costed about 20 bucks including the silicone tubing. In the picture it looks like the water is coming out slow but it is not,, just trick camera there

Brian


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

What a great, painless, low cost way to fill. BRILLIANT!!

JACK


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Ya it works great , I just added a momentary push button switch to it, I don't see why Iwould ever need to reverse, but if I did just hook up the leads backwards, I now am going to top off the other 8 batteries. 

Brian


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Great idea Brian, I'm just about to add to mine and I don't have much clearance in the back so Great timing bro



rctous said:


> Ya it works great , I just added a momentary push button switch to it, I don't see why Iwould ever need to reverse, but if I did just hook up the leads backwards, I now am going to top off the other 8 batteries.
> 
> Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

What do most people use? A turkey baster?

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> What do most people use? A turkey baster?
> 
> Brian


I think most people just let it happen naturally.. usually after a few beers, maybe dinner.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*The worst LUCK!!!*

Man I tell ya ever since the controller went to crap nothing I can do on the car is right. I was testing the heater out and when hooking up the mail 2/0 wires I would up doing a perfect DEAD SHORT. Of course the short didn't occur till I turned the key to ignition, then poof, damage totals so far, contactor for sure totally stuck (welede together) but as you can see I tore it apart and will use it now for the heater relay, ya a bit overkill but the electronic relay I got must have blown up as well cause it don't work either now. One battery went to crap ( onr of the traction packs) not sure if it was related but it would no longer charge, of course the charger it was hooked up to is blown up. Went today and got the battery replaced under warranty (no issues at all) took all of 30 seconds, got it in the car abd its charging just fine. 
So in the meanwhile I thought the heater element was shot so I took it out and bought a new one at Walmart, turns out the original was fine as well. Here is what I learned about ceramic heaters these last few days,,, when originally hooked up to 120 vdc or AC there is is spike about 7 amps of current and it drops pretty rapidly to about an amp or two, but add an airflow to it the current will go up to and over 11 amps and stay there as long as air is passing through it, it makes perfect sence now because with no air the element gets quite hot and requires much less current to maintain the temps, but while testing (without the blower motor going I assumed it should be drawing more current , so out it came and replaced it with a new on, so a learning experience for sure, New contactor shipped to me today will have it in a couple days, no news on the controller yet but will start calling next Monday, that will be the 2 week period that he asked me to wait. So be careful guys and don't pull any stupid moves like this!!!!!!!!!

Brian

Here is the contactor pics after tearing it all apart and re doing it, it will certainly handle the load of the heater now!. Better than throwing it away.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

rctous said:


> What do most people use? A turkey baster?
> 
> Brian


I use garden sprayer, $10 in Home Depot, works great! Tried turkey baster, but its makes a mess and very time consuming.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: The worst LUCK!!!*

Ouch. I'm just starting to think about my heater as well.

Did the contactor weld internally, or just on the terminals? It looks like you had to cut off one of the terminals. At least no one got hurt, eh?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: The worst LUCK!!!*



Bottomfeeder said:


> Ouch. I'm just starting to think about my heater as well.
> 
> Did the contactor weld internally, or just on the terminals? It looks like you had to cut off one of the terminals. At least no one got hurt, eh?



ya on the contactor they were stuck together but it was not that hard to unstick them once I had it all apart (actually pulling it apart unstuck it), but then I also broke the terminal bolt sticking up from it to ( to answer your question) . There is plenty of thread left to use it on the heater. Also this whole fiasco blew up the New Duracell charger to, I just came back from Target and got that replaced as well. Everything but the controller is all back in now just waiting for the silicone to dry on the contactor mount then I will test the system (heater) again. What a disaster it has been, luckely when I shorted out the pack I had one of the 2/0 leads just stuck on the bolt and it was not tightened down, certainly this saved alot as the connection there failed as the weakest link. The good news though the emergency disconnect system worked well.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

dimitri said:


> I use garden sprayer, $10 in Home Depot, works great! Tried turkey baster, but its makes a mess and very time consuming.



Great idea but I hate manual labor!!! LOL

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Talked to Logisystems today and it looks like the controlller will be shipping back to me by ythe end of the week. Totally replacing all the inside parts, some of the upgrades are for the controller to go into a pause mode if its over currented, and they claim that they resolved the jerky take off issues as well. I will let ya all know how it works when I get it back in the car.

brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, those promises sound good. I'll be happy to see you back in the EV saddle again. Keep us posted.


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## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

Well, the only hope I have is that the problems will be worked out and my controller will work flawlessly. I HAVE ONLY BEEN WAITING FOR MY LOGISYSTEMS CONTROLLER SINCE JULY 15th [email protected]#&%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok I feel better now.


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## BHall (Aug 1, 2007)

Hondacrzy said:


> Well, the only hope I have is that the problems will be worked out and my controller will work flawlessly. I HAVE ONLY BEEN WAITING FOR MY LOGISYSTEMS CONTROLLER SINCE JULY 15th [email protected]#&%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok I feel better now.



July... that aint nothin. Just got UPS tracking information for my Zilla 1k LV that I ordered in February.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I can't believe it takes that kind of time for these manufactureres to get these items out, I understand supply and demand but hire more people get er done, 8 months.. Thats just crazy,, I wished my clients would wait that long, WOW.

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The problem is that nothing even exists that equals the Zilla, at least that I'm aware of, and Otmar is just not set up for volume production, which is why he wants to sell out to someone who is capable of scaling up. I hope someone can do it, and I hope Logisystem works out their bugs and is able to ramp up as well. Let's face it, if it were easy to build a high amperage/high voltage controller more people would be doing it. The market is certainly there.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> The problem is that nothing even exists that equals the Zilla, at least that I'm aware of, and Otmar is just not set up for volume production, which is why he wants to sell out to someone who is capable of scaling up. I hope someone can do it, and I hope Logisystem works out their bugs and is able to ramp up as well. Let's face it, if it were easy to build a high amperage/high voltage controller more people would be doing it. The market is certainly there.


probably like most great things MONEY is stopping these companies from growth,, I agree there is no other like the "ZILLA" (yet)

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Put all the car back together (what I could with out the controller)the new main contactor and the old one for the heater finally the heater issue is resolved, but did use the 500 amp contactor I rebuilt but hey a bit of overkill never hurt nobody, seems like all the chargers are working excellent I have had 5 of them returned from the factory that were factory tuned, I have 2 more I am sending out to them but I will have these as spares. I will call Logisystems Monday to see if the controller has been shipped yet, They said it would on Friday or Monday we will see. The weather here has been awesome , perfect ev weather and I am sure once I get the controller back in it will turn cold again. My luck!, I will let ya know how the conversation goes Monday!

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Brian,

I am wondering how things are going with Logisystems. I just read about ANOTHER Logisystem controller that fried itself and I'm a little nervous. I have a Logisystem controller but I haven't hooked it up yet. I'm still working on my battery racks, but once I'm done, I'll be ready for a test drive. I'm going to look into my return policy with the vendor and see if hooking up the controller will void returning the controller.

So far I haven't heard of problems with the 120-144V 750A model, but I have heard of problems with many others. Given that, I've also heard success stories. I just don't want to make a $1300 mistake.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Brian,
> 
> I am wondering how things are going with Logisystems. I just read about ANOTHER Logisystem controller that fried itself and I'm a little nervous. I have a Logisystem controller but I haven't hooked it up yet. I'm still working on my battery racks, but once I'm done, I'll be ready for a test drive. I'm going to look into my return policy with the vendor and see if hooking up the controller will void returning the controller.
> 
> So far I haven't heard of problems with the 120-144V 750A model, but I have heard of problems with many others. Given that, I've also heard success stories. I just don't want to make a $1300 mistake.



nothing from them yet, aparently they have made the correction and they claim it will be worth the wait,, as long as they fix the issues I will be OK with the wait

getting pretty impatient though will know more this week

brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I also have a question for you regarding charging. I haven't properly drained any of my batteries yet, but they've lost some charge just waiting around. So, I gave them all a charge with the 12 Amp chargers. I was using a long extension cord out of a socket with questionable amperage capability, so I just did 5 at a time. I also plugged them into my "Kill-a-Watt" to measure the amperage draw. I was surprised to see a rather high amperage getting pulled by only 5 of the chargers... almost 12 Amps? The 12 Amps immediately started to fall but I don't know if that's because my batteries only needed a top-off. How many amps are you finding you are using with your 10 chargers? I do have an unused 30A breaker in my box, but I was hoping I wouldn't have to need it. And to be honest, I'd prefer the ability to opportunity charge.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I also have a question for you regarding charging. I haven't properly drained any of my batteries yet, but they've lost some charge just waiting around. So, I gave them all a charge with the 12 Amp chargers. I was using a long extension cord out of a socket with questionable amperage capability, so I just did 5 at a time. I also plugged them into my "Kill-a-Watt" to measure the amperage draw. I was surprised to see a rather high amperage getting pulled by only 5 of the chargers... almost 12 Amps? The 12 Amps immediately started to fall but I don't know if that's because my batteries only needed a top-off. How many amps are you finding you are using with your 10 chargers? I do have an unused 30A breaker in my box, but I was hoping I wouldn't have to need it. And to be honest, I'd prefer the ability to opportunity charge.


on 110VAC I was actually kicking off breakers if we do the math on them 12 amps output at 14.8 volts = 177.6 watts lets assume 80% effeciency so about 220 watts at the wall 120 vac = 1.833 amps so 5 should draw about 9-10 amps Thats why with my 10 all at thesame time it does draw ( my gues is over 20 amps but slightly over) on 220Vac which is what I use it draws about 9-10 amps ya they are pretty thirsty buggers.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Finally a call from Logisystems, the controller is on the way back, I will have it Monday. I will certainly keep everyone informed on its performance and breakage factor (if any) been working on the inside of the garage (drwalling etc) and I am so sick of pushing the car in and out,, so sick ,, so I really hope the controller works and works well.

Brian


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Good to hear that you will be back in business next week! Don't let any more reporters drive the car!!
JACK


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks for the tip. I guess I'll have to secure a 240V line at work. At home I only have 1 phase, so I'll need to run some wires for the 30A breaker. I was looking at getting a welder anyway, so it's not such a negative thing.

I sent off my controller yesterday for it's reworking, let's hope they've solved the problem. I'll keep a keen eye on your progress!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Thanks for the tip. I guess I'll have to secure a 240V line at work. At home I only have 1 phase, so I'll need to run some wires for the 30A breaker. I was looking at getting a welder anyway, so it's not such a negative thing.
> 
> I sent off my controller yesterday for it's reworking, let's hope they've solved the problem. I'll keep a keen eye on your progress!


the 240VAC in your house is only 1 phase,, you must have a dryer or stove or oven don,t you? they all run on 240 1 phase


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

gravelydude said:


> Good to hear that you will be back in business next week!  Don't let any more reporters drive the car!!
> JACK


so true

no one will drive it but me for awhile any way! These are not regular cars and really need to be treated differently


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> the 240VAC in your house is only 1 phase,, you must have a dryer or stove or oven don,t you? they all run on 240 1 phase


Nope. Just the 110 coming in. Trust me, it's been a pain. We've got a gas stove and just a washer, (we hang our clothes here in Pasadena). I've purchased a 30A breaker for a welder, but I haven't wired it up yet. That will probably be an obvious next plan.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well I got the controller back and in the car. They Tapped out the top and included a fan for it ( I hav two on there before but I put one of mine on because it had the red fan bades and looks cooler than the black one they sent to me. I took it out for a spin (10miles) and all seams well. Not sure If the center adjustment screw has been removed but I could not feel it with the screwdriver so I left it alone. Still same old jerky take offs nothing different there, but it does seem to have better accelleration now.. I was pretty hard on it in those 10 miles though came back it was barley warm so hopefully all is OK now

Boy do I love this car and sure missed it! Got it on the chargers and by the way all 10 of them work great!!! Now to wash the car its a mess from sitting so long!

Not that it matters but this is what I have spent the last month on in the garage/ shop it is awesome added decking above ( about 400 sq ft) now some sanding and paint and it will be done , fully insulated with heat as you can see. ( 100,000 btu's of heat )

Just wanted to share that with ya all!

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Nope. Just the 110 coming in. Trust me, it's been a pain. We've got a gas stove and just a washer, (we hang our clothes here in Pasadena). I've purchased a 30A breaker for a welder, but I haven't wired it up yet. That will probably be an obvious next plan.



That really blows me away won't the electric Co. wire it for you for free????


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I haven't looked into it personally (maybe I'll do that!) but my friends had the same problem and they wanted $600 for running a second phase to the house. It's what you get when you live in a house built in the '20s.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

and I just read the manual on the Logisystem controller they did remove the adjustability of the second "pot" so I set the third one to max CW and the first one to 1/8 turn CW seams to be similar as before, not sure what upgrades were done perhaps it was actually down graded???????

brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Well that was short lived,,, went to the hardware store being "green" and all did my shopping , left the parking lot, got into the middle of the intersection then frickin "POOF" there goes the controller again. I managed to push the car out of the street while other just sat and honked the frickin horns, Called the wife she came with rope and we towed the frickin car home again. Luckily for me (not Logisystems) I was home at 4:55 enough time to call them and vent while the venting was still good. Was on hold for about 5 minutes and Jim actually answered the phone (poor guy),,, Long and short I pulled it out already took it to FED EX for overnight delivery (my dime of course) he was willing to do a ground pick up tag, NOT ACCEPTABLE by me. They will have it tomorrow and back to me by Friday, They are upgrading it to a 750 amp controller (no charge of course) Any way I can't even begin to tell you how Pissed off I am right now. This is the last chance they get.

Sorry for the RANTING but I am sure you all understand. I just want my car to work like it should..

Brian


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Damn!  With all the controller failures I've read about I'm either waiting for a Zilla or going with an AC system. I just wish Alltrax made higher voltage controllers because their low voltage ones seem good. Of course low voltage is easier to do so who knows.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Brian check this out, another victim today:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=89004


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Damn!  With all the controller failures I've read about I'm either waiting for a Zilla or going with an AC system. I just wish Alltrax made higher voltage controllers because their low voltage ones seem good. Of course low voltage is easier to do so who knows.


Just to make sure everyone is clear on this: My Curtis controller DID NOT blow up. It was an operator error!!! My Bad.

And I am so sorry to hear about your Logisystems failure. I really really want them to succeed. We need more choices for reliable controllers.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

This is bad news for everyone that was planning on a Logisystems controller under the hood. They've got mine, naturally, so I suppose I'll be waiting for them to fix the problem and implement that correction. I could be waiting a while. The pessimist in me thinks that I'll be finished with the cosmetics of the car before the controller is finished. I'm not happy either!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> This is bad news for everyone that was planning on a Logisystems controller under the hood. They've got mine, naturally, so I suppose I'll be waiting for them to fix the problem and implement that correction. I could be waiting a while. The pessimist in me thinks that I'll be finished with the cosmetics of the car before the controller is finished. I'm not happy either!


the problem is when will it break? The first one laste 202 miles the second 12 miles what if the third goes 546 miles? The fact that it may be unreliable is what worries me the most,, it did have better acceleration this time though so I hope the 750 amp will have even more,, again we will see Friday,

Brian


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

That just sucks. All that work and wait for another road block. 

I stand by a thread I made a few weeks ago about controller and motor matching. Recent just about every microprocessor controller company has has strings of failures, and I believe it has to do with the Current Limiting design and the motor size people are using their controllers with. They rely on the A/D converter on the processor, which are wicked slow compared to a proper comparator setup of the Curtis controllers. 

So according to my fuzzy math of Motor/Controller matching, your Warp9 is essentially a pimped out ADC FB1, and should be using a 144 Volt 1000 AMP controller if it's of the microprocessor family or a Curtis 1231C. This is based off the inrush current demands of the motor and compensating (hopefully) for the different current limiting aspects of the microprocessor family of controllers. 

I don't have any solid proof of this theory yet, but I have noticed that all the people with working Kellys have controllers/motors that match my theory. 

Anyways, that just sucks. I can imagine your venting and it was probably multiplied exponentially while being put on hold.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I didn't mind being placed on hold as I was wearing a headset waiting for them at the same time taking the rope off my car and pushing it back into a reasonable position in the driveway so I could remove the controller, when Jim did pick up the phone I was still a bit out of breath from pushing ,,,, so the venting was good. Well the 750 amp should help but the voltage is still 120 (actually I think the 750 amp is 144 volt??? Mabey I will add a couple more bats if thats the case ( doubt it though) I love the car the way it is when its working,, I work in the RC biz and and very aware of controller issues and motor matching and eventually the controllers were able to handle any motor but it took them a couple years to figure it all out as well. As long as Logisystems continues to support my issues and eventually gets it right I would buy another Logisystems controller. I do not like being an unpaid Guinea pig though,, If I were getting paid for R&D it would be different but with $1200.00+ bucks wrapped up in this thing its about 6 bucks a mile so far WOW the ICE is looking pretty cheap again!

Brian


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

My 144 volt 1000 AMP calculation was controller specs, mainly for current and running it 120 or lower would be perfectly fine in my books. 

As for the controller handling any motor, it would be a really simple fix. Create a simple comparator setup that will trip the PWM to 0 the instant the current goes over the design limit, and it would be in parallel with the A/D of the micro controller. Then you would get the benefit of the microprocessor features and the quick current limiting of a discrete component controller. 

I really hope the 750 amp works out for you. I've put about 10 miles on my Kelly and it's been perfectly fine, but my EV has sat in the driveway for a month now because of waiting for vaccum brake components and inspection, and that has been driving my crazy.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I almost did the Kelly controller as well but the same thing read bad things about them LOL lokk at me now!!!!!!!!!!! The Curtis seem to work well and I thought Logisystems pretty much just copied them,, well I guee they missed something in the copy. I just hope # 3 works,, not sure what else to do, Logisystems was very apologentic and was willing to do what ever I wanted (pretty much) so I cannot complain about thier customer service so far (except the first 7 weeks) was a long time to wait I think, So far I will give them the benifit of the doubt but only one more time.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

rctous said:


> I almost did the Kelly controller as well but the same thing read bad things about them LOL lokk at me now!!!!!!!!!!! The Curtis seem to work well and I thought Logisystems pretty much just copied them,, well I guee they missed something in the copy. I just hope # 3 works,, not sure what else to do, Logisystems was very apologentic and was willing to do what ever I wanted (pretty much) so I cannot complain about thier customer service so far (except the first 7 weeks) was a long time to wait I think, So far I will give them the benifit of the doubt but only one more time.


Definitely give them a chance. I have never seen a Logisystems controller in person, just my Kelly, Solectria's and a few dead Curtis controllers. I actually have the schematics for the Curtis 1221B and it scares the crap out of me, and that's why I went with the Kelly.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Just got off the phone with Logisystems and apparently an insulating gasket was not put on the controller causing it to short out (great a 10 cent o ring) sound familiar? Any way they are up grading it to a 144 volt 750 amp comtroller and I will still have it here Friday they say. Will keep ya all posted

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I sure hope that was really the problem, for your sake and mine. I'm also getting the 144V 750A controller. My big worry is that the problem is much deeper than that, and they found the scapegoat of the missing o-ring. In most cases with electronics if something isn't insulated correctly it causes a problem immediately, not 10 miles down the road. Weird, I say. But, as I say, I have hope. I want a full voltage test drive soon!


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

TheSGC said:


> Definitely give them a chance. I have never seen a Logisystems controller in person, just my Kelly, Solectria's and a few dead Curtis controllers. I actually have the schematics for the Curtis 1221B and it scares the crap out of me, and that's why I went with the Kelly.


Where did you find a schematic of the Curtis? I would love to look that over.
I would be tempted to try and steroid up some controllers


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> Where did you find a schematic of the Curtis? I would love to look that over.
> I would be tempted to try and steroid up some controllers


http://www.qsl.net/w8rnh/curtisschematic.pdf

Isn't Google amazing!?


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Well I never even tried Google, figured it would be guarded information.
Thanks!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I sure hope that was really the problem, for your sake and mine. I'm also getting the 144V 750A controller. My big worry is that the problem is much deeper than that, and they found the scapegoat of the missing o-ring. In most cases with electronics if something isn't insulated correctly it causes a problem immediately, not 10 miles down the road. Weird, I say. But, as I say, I have hope. I want a full voltage test drive soon!


it sort of makes sence, but who knows,,, they looked at right away (within 30 minutes) I was watching the tracking and about 30 minutes later I called and that was the reply I really hope thats it (doesn't say much though about their QC procederues) we will see when I get it in the car Friday. They are still saying Friday,,, we have a EV club meeting again on Sunday and if I miss this one (with the car) it will be my third because of the controller. I can only wait and hech mabey add a couple more batteries as well!!! Although I am very please with it when it works so I will probably not do that.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Got a call from Jim today from Logisystems, they blew up there test equipment testing my controller today, primarily the 1000 amp contactor and of course they are not locallaly available, so they have one coming from AZ blah blah blah,, we talked for about an hour and I am actually pleased with the way they are handling my comtroller, even though I will not get it back till next wed they are a stand up company and Jim is not going anywhere (despite rumors) his goal is to have one of the best controllers out there and yes getting there will be a struggle but I believe they will. I will continue to support them and feel pretty good about them. Also I now have a 156 volt 750 amp controller and pretty much warranty for ever. This is all assuming it works once I get it back. The biggest bummer I will miss the 3rd EV club meeting with my car,, OH WELL. The weather here is cold 15 for the lows so no huge hurry, I just want it to work and I am willing to wait for it. I was cool driving it for those last 12 miles though, I tell ya those of you who may be thinking of doing an e car there is no better feeling of driving it.. NONE. Will keep ya all posted as usual.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

not been able to get a hold of any one at Logisystems now for a week,, last time they even answered thier phone was last Monday a week ago,, any one else had any luck lately with them? This really could suck.

brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I called last week to see how things were going. They were enthused about their testing and they would soon start shipping again. The person that knew when mine would be returned wasn't there, but they told me to call back this week. I'm not in much of a hurry, as I've got a lot to do before the car is ready, so I didn't call them yet. Surely, you're not in a hurry any more... Sadly.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I called last week to see how things were going. They were enthused about their testing and they would soon start shipping again. The person that knew when mine would be returned wasn't there, but they told me to call back this week. I'm not in much of a hurry, as I've got a lot to do before the car is ready, so I didn't call them yet. Surely, you're not in a hurry any more... Sadly.



no your right I am not in a hurry my concern is the fact the phone just keeps on ringing, and they promised me I would have it last Wednesday,, so yes I am a bit concerned.We have a member in our EV club who lost his ZAP 3 wheel vehicle last week due to his Logisystem controller catching fire basically totalling the whole vehicle,,, pretty nasty I tell ya. Not sure how long Jim will hang in there,, sales are way down on EV parts as of late due to cheap gas prices.

Brian


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I called last week to see how things were going. .


what day,,, was it Monday??????


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It was Wed or Thursday, if I recall.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> It was Wed or Thursday, if I recall.


well good that is encouraging I did call them 4-6 times on both those days,, I slao sent an e-mail I hope to the right e-mail address,, well I will keep trying to call several times per day,, Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

ElectricMopar: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3045871304325752535&postID=783376929082534935


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> ElectricMopar: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3045871304325752535&postID=783376929082534935


thanks for the link

B


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Maybe they are screening your calls! I seem to get through to them every time I try. They tell me that they will know more regarding my particular controller after the New Year. But, it is in the production area. That's fine by me, as I'm going to be traveling a lot in the next two weeks. They sure don't sound like they are up against the wall.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Maybe they are screening your calls! I seem to get through to them every time I try. They tell me that they will know more regarding my particular controller after the New Year. But, it is in the production area. That's fine by me, as I'm going to be traveling a lot in the next two weeks. They sure don't sound like they are up against the wall.


I never thought of that ,, just that thought makes me a bit ill. I will try to disable my caller ID next time,, I did get an answering machine today though and yes left a message but no return call today at all. HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????

B


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Maybe they are screening your calls! I seem to get through to them every time I try. They tell me that they will know more regarding my particular controller after the New Year. But, it is in the production area. That's fine by me, as I'm going to be traveling a lot in the next two weeks. They sure don't sound like they are up against the wall.


actually, I was thinking that too.. try calling from a different number or better yet, someone's cell with a different area code! Bummer if they are avoiding you.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> actually, I was thinking that too.. try calling from a different number or better yet, someone's cell with a different area code! Bummer if they are avoiding you.


Well this is pretty disturbing ,,,, I called but blocked my caller ID *67 does it with Vonage, and they answered on the second ring??? I have not been an ass with them at all actually better I am sure than most in my situation,, and the same girl that always answers claims I have never talked to her before and I surley recognize her voice and she said she was the answering service and that we have never spoken before,, OH well I made it to their Shi#[email protected] list I guess. I left my # and she said they will call me Monday,, I guess we will see.

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> Well this is pretty disturbing ,,,, I called but blocked my caller ID *67 does it with Vonage, and they answered on the second ring??? I have not been an ass with them at all actually better I am sure than most in my situation,, and the same girl that always answers claims I have never talked to her before and I surley recognize her voice and she said she was the answering service and that we have never spoken before,, OH well I made it to their Shi#[email protected] list I guess. I left my # and she said they will call me Monday,, I guess we will see.
> 
> Brian


well, in all fairness, it may well be their service and the reason why it got answered so quickly! It is xmas eve after all. Don't get discouraged yet. Though it is starting to remind of the guy we ordered our kitchen cabinets from and who went out of business soon after... (we got the cabinets in the end, so have hope!)


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

well I guess at this point it doesn't matter if they answer my calls or not.... UPS just dropped of my new 750 amp 144 volt Logisystem controller,,,,, Hey bottom feeder this is the same one you have isn't it? Let me know if your up to testing it out after you get your car all going?? It would be nice to see if it actually worked?? 

I guess this is good news.

Brian


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Ha Ha! And here we were ready to accuse them of avoiding you!

I'm not making much progress during the holidays. I'm choosing to head down to Baja, Mexico for some deserts, mating whales, and margaritas on desolate beaches. So my car won't be ready for a while still. Perhaps next month? I'd be happy to test out your controller once it's ready though. Yes, I'll have the same one. Although, for you, it might be easier to find someone in your EV club to test it out. It should be completely swappable with the ubiquitous Curtis. It'd be neat to see that comparison actually.

It's great to hear that they are delivering again!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> Ha Ha! And here we were ready to accuse them of avoiding you!
> 
> I'm not making much progress during the holidays. I'm choosing to head down to Baja, Mexico for some deserts, mating whales, and margaritas on desolate beaches. So my car won't be ready for a while still. Perhaps next month? I'd be happy to test out your controller once it's ready though. Yes, I'll have the same one. Although, for you, it might be easier to find someone in your EV club to test it out. It should be completely swappable with the ubiquitous Curtis. It'd be neat to see that comparison actually.
> 
> It's great to hear that they are delivering again!


ya your right I will find some one local I am sure hoping it is OK but heck once I start on the next ev it may not take too long!!!

Thanks though.

Brian


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## dataman19 (Oct 7, 2009)

*Re: Vaccuum pumps SUCKS*

Brian,
Here are a few observations (and ny .26 cents worth)..



rctous said:


> we power washed the seats ,and the carpet the other day (Sunday) the seats turned out quite nice but the carpet is hopeless it looks aweful, so I ordered a new carpet, not a bad price at 122 bucks and 12 bucks for shipping will have that in about a week then put the interior together. I also ordered a stereo (cd player) and a dash to kit install it in.
> 
> Note: For those of you wanting to clean that nasty ol auto carpet - Here is a trick I learned while doing car restorations in Germany.
> ...
> ...


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## barrychuck (Jul 1, 2010)

rctous said:


> ya I was thinking about the over steer as well but if it always turns on at the same point (like 10 degrees or so) I am not sure how noticable it would be? Also like anything I think you would get used to it. Its easy enough to try and certainly easy enough to run the motor all the time ,,but I inmagine 95% or more of the time you drive a car straight so the energy savings is definately worth it I think. I will try it and let ya know.
> 
> Brian


Guys, the thing about power steering is it's power assist. This means the assist force is "sensed" from the amount of torque across the power steering unit. At speed, there is little force required, and thus "power assist never even is applied. The only time power assist is needed is in a parking lot/ low speed situations due to tire scrub. This means you would never even know the difference at speed if the pump was not building pressure because the only thing it's doing it pushing fuild across the relief valve and wasting energy. This is why a lot of cars have now gone to electric power assist because the only time it's used is the parking lot. The RX-8 is a good example.


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## mongkolnum (Mar 28, 2011)

Brians,
Here's the first time to see the conversion to be EV. I am curious to run my project same as you. I have a look the speed control and motor DC from your pic. Pls advise me what website can I order them.

Andy


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