# Porsche 924 conversion



## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

We were considering a metro, crx, or small pickup covnersion. Found this porsche on our local craigslist for 750. We got it to $500. The engine isn't working to well on it, so thhats no big deal. But it is in good enough condition that it may sell for 1 or 2 hundred. Pluss all the extra parts we dont need will hopefully sell for more then the car is worth (gas tank, exhuast, radiator, starter, alternator, ac pump etc)

Few problems with the car:
-driver side mirror hangs cuse the moounting bolt is stripped
-will neee a manual steering rack
-rear windshield wiper cover broken
-hood and roof are slightly faded
-cant hold to many batteries
-cracke windshield wiper fluid container
-cracks in dash
-one window button is finiky

The Plan:
-144v system
-12 140Ah deep cycle batteries (already bought from local car part supply store for $1158 total, $80+$8 core charge each)
-Logisystems controller, 750amp or 1000amp undecided currently (please tell us if the extra 250amps is worthwhile)
-build our own vacuum pump
-144v quickcharge
-either a conmputer psu for dc to dc or something cheap
-some ebay guages

I attatched a pic of our car


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

Here is the rear seat area... not really space for a person, but it will fit some batteries.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

interesting project. Any idea how much the car weighed stock? What kind of range are you hoping to get? I would suspect there is space for lots of batteries.. weight capacity maybe a different matter.


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## martymcfly (Sep 10, 2008)

I haven't looked under one of those for a long time. Don't those have a torque tube that goes to the rear end? If I remember right, the rear end looks like a front trans axle out of a VW Fox. You may be able to mount the motor in the back and use the whole under hood area for batteries.


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

I edited the first post with more pictures. Tomorrow once we pull the engine completely, we will ad more pictures.


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

6/4 UPDATE:
Today the engine was fully removed and started planning on the placement of the motor/mounting of the new motor.

One problem we see is that we originally planned to rest the motor on the main cross support, the shaft of the motor will not be low enough if we do this.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

probuild521 said:


> interesting idea, i'll have to look into it once we fully take out the motor tomorrow just not sure how the clutch would work as it appears to be right off the engine in the front of the car


If there is enough space I'd try to do it. Would drop some extra weight.

Looks like you got a deal on the car.


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

we have considered this one because it is cheap and would run off our pack voltage, but not sure if it will be fast enough

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009060514504683&item=4-1801&catname=powerTrans


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

jimbo12d said:


> we have considered this one because it is cheap and would run off our pack voltage, but not sure if it will be fast enough
> 
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009060514504683&item=4-1801&catname=powerTrans


At that price buy 2 or 3 and parallel them for volume, then you have not only inexpensive but redundancy for safety. Heck buy 10 (about the price you would pay for some of the EV rated noisy pumps) and have spares or a profit center if you find out you only need one.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Amazing progress! In re: the vacuum pump, I've read most breaking systems ned 14" of vacuum, this says it can provide 25 max, so that should be no problem. My only concern is the VDC; typically I've read about 12v pumps being used. With a 12 volt system, the car is going to be D-E-D dead before you have a problem with the breaks. With 135 volt, you only need a 10% drop in voltage before it's underpowered. If you decide to go with this I'd definitely try it out at low speeds first (obviously) and strongly consider a resivoir in case of a voltage drop.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Your coupler looks spot on! And what you're describing sounds like a taper lock, which I've read is the ideal setup. You're comming into the home stretch, what do you think the final cost/time will be?


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

4 weeks (we worked several hours a day on it for the past 4 weeks, and still will have some work getting the guages and all to work once the drivetrain is working)

$5,500 -$4,000 gov rebate (that might take 4months to file though)


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## Zukiru (Sep 22, 2008)

state government rebate?

man that is a cool EV.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

probuild521 said:


> yeah in Illinois the government reimburses 80% of the conversion cost up to 4k its pretty nice.
> http://www.illinoisgreenfleets.org/


MAN that is great. I wish we had that! I found out that there was up to 500k available through North Carolina's energy department for alternate fuel vehicles, but they do not cover personal vehicles.


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

We test drove it today. About 10miles on the conversion today.

Things we need to fix
-no vacuum brakes(still stops fine if you push hard)
-accessory battery dead (the dc-dc is not hooked up yet)
-no clutch
-lots of vibration at high rpm
-either cant get into 1st and second or cant get into reverse.
(we did a fix on the shifter and the bolt needs to be shortened)

We drove it at night and were about 3miles from home when the accessory battery was basically completely dead. If the headlights were on, the contactor did not have enough power to turn. And even when the headlights were on, they were barely visible. So we will need to make the dc-dc work soon

The vibration is ridiculous. Any high rpms make the car motor go crazy, and it coasts forever (making shifting without a clutch hard). Ill post another thread about vibration so more people read it.

Have some pictures and a video.

Youtube seems to not be accepting uploads now, so ill add that later.

Here is one picture, the rest are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/jim.danielson/PorsheController#


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Well it sounds like you have a good handle on everything, except that vibration. Vibration means something is moving that shouldn't be. Most likely the motor or transmission. Might want to make sure the motor doesn't have any wiggle room, the transmission, it seems to me, would tend to produce vibration at lower RPMs.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

jimbo12d said:


> We test drove it today. About 10miles on the conversion today.


Congratulations That first move is the scarry part, the releif when it does what it is supposed to is fantastic.



jimbo12d said:


> Things we need to fix
> 
> -lots of vibration at high rpm
> 
> The vibration is ridiculous. Any high rpms make the car motor go crazy, and it coasts forever (making shifting without a clutch hard). Ill post another thread about vibration so more people read it.


I would suggest that you revisit your coupler and adapter, what you are describing sounds like a misalignment or balance problem. Take another look at how the ICE, clutch housing and torque tube lined up. One thing I noticed is, it appears, (the pictures are inconclusive) you did not have a pilot bearing in your motor to clutch adapter for the driveshaft to center in. This keeps the clutch disk centered in that flywheel.

Be sure the concintricity of the original ICE installation has been retained.

Another thought, A lot of engines use the flywheel to act as a bob weight to balance the crankshaft. The Chevy 400 ci small block is a famous example. This would cause a major imbalance. The fix would be remove the flyewheel and have it rebalanced. You may need to contact Porsche to be sure this is the problem. It might also be found by a simple visual exam. If the flywheel appears lopsided it probaby is.



jimbo12d said:


> -either cant get into 1st and second or can't get into reverse.
> (we did a fix on the shifter and the bolt needs to be shortened).


The shifting problem you mention. Is this with the vehicle stopped or while driving?

*While Stopped:*
If it is while stopped you might find a quick tap on the throttle will bring ths syncros into alignment so you can complete the shift. Remember, with an ICE that shaft is always spinning a little even if it is only slight drag with the clutch disengaged.

For my own use I was going to put a momentary switch on the clutch pedal that would parallel a low ohm resistor into the throttle circuit to give the motor a slight kick. But in the end a slight bump on the throttle works and it's simple (K.I.S.S.).

*While Driving:*
If the problem occurs while driving it is a matter of timing your shift. It will be almost like clutchless shifting. there is no real drag on the motor like an ICE so you just have to wait until things align. with the extra length and rotating mass of the clutch to trans drive shaft it's going to be worse.

A possible help would be a mechanical or electric brake to apply a slight drag on the motor shaft to emulate the engine drag. This would be applied when the clutch was depressed.

Hope this helps you


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH0F_WnWl7g


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## samabhi111 (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah! This project is quite interesting. Keep up posting about your progress man.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

probuild521 said:


> still not happy with how the motor and clutch assembly is running (offbalence and squeaky), going to be pulling the motor again and mess with the flywheel alignment some more.
> 
> going to return the part that attaches the flywheel to the other half of the coupler. the motor side half of the coupler has already been returned and with in the .001" so thats pretty much as good as my non-CNC abilities go. so dont think its that part mostly just the flywheel mounted half.
> 
> if it doesnt get sorted out by this weekend may consider giving up on clutch plan and run a clutch less setup (been driving the car around the street and shifting w/o it isnt horrid, takes quite a bit longer and reverse you have to wait for it to come to a stop but other than that...) thats pretty much the last ditch effort to get it to work hopefully it doesnt come down to that.


probuild,

I have gone through all of the thread again and I've still missed how you ensure the concentricity of the motor shaft to the transmission drive shaft.

In the pictures I've seen showing the motor to trans adapeter plates with built two sets of stands offs and no sign of dowel and/or hollow pin alignments (that I can see) keeping the longetudinal centerline of the motor perfectly in line with the centerline of that long driveshaft. Even a degree or two of misalignment or a few thou off center and you will have BIG problems.

I think you should take anothe look at how you did the adapter plates. maybe a few photos or drawings, maybe we can spot something to help out.

The motor to bell housing adapter has to perfectly duplicate the back end of the engine. 

The Flywheel mounting face of your motor shaft adapter has to be in exactly the same place as the end of the crankshaft. If it's in or out or off center or off angle. you will have vibration and or bent parts. Look up the thread that M38mike and his electro Willys Jeep. I think you might have some of the same problems.


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Probuild
Glad to see that someone else is doing a 924 conversion. Mine has been on the road for a while now and it was a learning experience. I went no-clutch and have had no problems whatever shifting. I let the charger cord dangle out of the gas filler cap and it never fails to get a laugh.
tommyt
'82 Porsche 924


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

We pulled the motor again today. Found out we were missing the rod that holds the fork in place for the clutch, it must have fallen out. This was our main scraping problem, but we still need to fix some vibration before it goes back in and get a new piece for the fork


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Probuild
Sorry-no pics. Even if I had any I don't know how to send them. And even if I could, I doubt you would want to do things the way I did. Finding room to put things was my biggest problem. I went with an 84V system using 6V Interstates (14 of them) and put 2 in the spare tire well, 2 in the rear fender cavities, 2 in the rear seat area and the remaining 8 on an angle iron rack which mounts on the original motor mounts and the tie down tabs. The car now weighs 3167#. I used a D&D 15A-6 motor, mounted on a frame which attaches to the A-arm mounts and the cross-member attach points. I cut about a foot off the torque tube and the drive shaft, and welded up a basket to connect the motor face to the tube. This all works well but the motor is in the drive shaft tunnel and barely fits (some hammer body work was required). The shaft coupling which I used had a taper lock sleeve which held the torque but it had some backlash which was very noisey on trailing throttle. I threw it out and made a new one. I have had the car up to 60mph but the small motor and poor airflow cause a heating problem (the motor has a thermocouple in the brushes) at heavy load. Range is my problem now even with Nokia LRR tires (the car will coast for over a quarter mile starting at 30mph) and I am going to have to change my driving habits.
Good luck on selling the IC stuff; I threw all mine in the dumpster after I saw a guy on the 924 website offering to give away 3 good motors. I posted the radiator, AC coil and some other stuff and got not a single bite. By the way, whose project is this, probuild or jimbo. Whoever it is, it sounds as though you're making super fast progress. Good luck.
tommyt


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Ah ha. The cardinal rule of Bridgeport setup. If you don't KNOW that the head is true - indicate it. 

Before I had my own shop I screwed up a few parts assuming that the previous operator (based on what he was machining) had trued up the head on the mill.

ASS/U/ME
Keith


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

probuild521 said:


> so the dowel pins werent in straight and causing issues.
> 
> should find out if everything works tomorrow


Wonderful, I think you have the problem in hand.

From the descriptions of your problems I was sure that there was some form of concentricity problem. Thats why I kept asking about alignment pins and such. 

Milling head alignment is such a basic thing you never even think to ask about it. You just assume (ASS/U/ME).

Can't wait to see it roll down the road (Noiselessly).


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I think most of us went clutchless, so no help from those of us anyway. My coupler was made by a local machinist for $225 - solid one-piece unit.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

dumb question,do you have a pilot bushing on your adapter? also,i purchased the same type motor from ebay as well and noticed that it has a bit of vibration of its own with nothing attatched to it.does yours vibrate also?

i see the pilot bearing in your adapter,scratch dumb question #1 !


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

probuild521 said:


> haha yeah its in the adapter.
> 
> i'm going to go check the w/o any adapter on it and i'll let you know what the result is.
> just checked the motor it runs perfectly smooth, only vibrations I have are caused by a slight mis-balance in the adapter assembly which is hopefully getting fixed today


hmmm,guess i have to pull my armature and get it checked for balance.it has only slight vibration but i fear that it will amplify with the addition of coupler and flywheel.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

If you ran 5 miles "pretty slow" meaning low motor rpm you could have been drawing quite a few amps and will not have been moving much cooling air through your motor.

Your guages will likely point you to the cause.

My bike motor and controller get warmer putting around the yard than they do on the road running 30+mph (geared for ~40mph)

Keith


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

what gauge cable are you using? looks like 2/0,is that correct? if so,you might want to change to 4/0,i've seen posts about 2/0 getting hot and not being able to pull enough amps.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Pro,

A couple of questions that might help you track down the cause of this condition.

1.) Have you run you motor enough to seat the brushes and break in the communtator. if the brushes are only partially seated ecpect high amps

2.) Have you cycled your batteries enough to break them in. As I understant it L/A batteries need to be cycled several times before they will perform corectly. 

The two above are self correcting with time and use.

3.) Does your controller have programmable settings that can limit the power you send to the motor (my Altrax does). If so have you checked them. BE SURE of the controller config. (Ask me how I know about this .) 

4.) Have you gone over all of your cable connectors, looking for a Hot One. High resistance at one connector will cause problems everywhere

5.) What gear are you running in. I hope you havent just been just leaving it in 3rd or 4th. Try shifting down a gear when you have these high load problems. Spining up the motor should raise the Voltage and drop the amps. It will also let the internal cooling fan move more air.

This instant high torque thing that some EV people get fixated on can be a killer in a higher weight EV. 

Yes you can move away in 3rd or 4th but you will pull big amps to do it. Those big amps heat up the controller and it goes into current limit and backs off tha amps it will let you have. Since you are in a high gear the motor is turning slow so the temp in the motor goes up causing higher resistance.

Since I am not there I don't know if any of the above conditions apply or if you have already chedked some of them. I'm just trying to help out as so many of the others on this site have helped me.


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

We are showing are car tomorrow night at 7pm. If you are in the chicago area call me today or tomorrow and I will give directions

847-975-6918


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

You forgot to share your experience with controller replacement. Please let us know how was the service from the vendor, how did new controller work for you? Did you get desired results? Any issues?

I think many of us are most interested when it comes to controller's quality and service....

Thanks


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Probuild
Glad to hear you're on the road. My 924 is now a daily driver and giving good service. What kind of batteries do you have? I am using 14 golf cart batteries (6V) and can easily make a trip of 26 mi with plenty left. I have discovered that the set up is quite sensitive to heavy throttle; I guess due to the Peukert effect. My controller (Alltrax) blew up but the mfgr replaced it with no problems. The engineer with whom I spoke could offer no insight on why it let go. It literally exploded - blew the case apart. How does your car ride? Mine rides like a brick bat.
Tom
Indiana


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Looks nice, but I seem to remember that those logisystems controllers were heat sinked to the bottom of the enclosure, so those fans on top may not help.


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

The fans were originally mounted directly to the top of the controller, we just moved them up an inch or two, it has just as much air flow.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Jim,
I saw your reply on HF website about tow bar. I have a question:
How did you connect tow bar to the car?
Did you have to manufacture custom brackets?

I have 912 as a candidate for towing on the shows, even it goes 70 miles on the charge 

Thank you.
-Youri


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

I unbolted the bumper and attached to the two shocks that it uses. All I needed was one piece of angle iron and a few holes drilled.

Attached the only picture I have on my computer. Hope it helps


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Thank you so much, 
I've U-HAUL hitch installed today on my Murano, so I am thinking to stop by HF to get the tow bar. 

-Y.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Jim,
Two more questions about tow bar and steering wheel of the Porsche.

According to the Tow Bar manual it should be FREE (unlocked). I understand that, my 912 does not have a steering lock, that is good.

My question about how sharp turns you can make, are those front wheels adjusting fast? Let say regular right turn or U-turn...

I've read from RV forums that in order to make turn let say left turn then right you have to go straight some distance in between turns...

Also, I see on the pic you have horizontal bar where bumper is. Did you but it or made yourself?

Thank you in advance.
-Y.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Jim,
Thank you,
I've made custom tow brackets for 911-912 Porsche and they were performed marvelously !!!

I can offer them to other guys now !!!
Regards,
-Y.


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## Gozer (Jul 3, 2008)

Could you make one for a 914 ?

George
Wilmington,DE


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Gozer said:


> Could you make one for a 914 ?
> 
> George
> Wilmington,DE


Hey George,
This is to show that I am NOT about make big $$$,  
This guy makes it for 914
http://www.rennenmetal.com/products.asp?id=2

Hope this helps,

-Y


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