# voltsrabbit conversion problems



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

What voltage are you using and what gears are you driving in? If you're in too high of a gear the controller will be putting out to many amps and cutback to cool itself down.

Your Curtis should have a heatsink installed for better performance.


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

This is a 96volt system. For the most part, I am driving in first up to about 25mph and 2nd up to about 45mph. The fastest I've had it up to was about 55 in third. THe outside of the curtis is finned. I presummed that was a bit of a heat sink built-in. Is there an additional heatsink available for the 1231C?

I assume you mean too high a gear as in 3rd or 4th gear VS 1st or 2nd?

That still wouldn't explain the lack of inital acceleration.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2009)

Check for anything that may be binding like brakes or anything. When you charge what is your standing voltage after a few hours after you are done charging? You should have at least an acceleration equal to the stock ICE up to at least 30 mph if not more. Is your pot adjusted properly? What are the exact specs and all that good stuff. Clutch? No Clutch? Motor adaptor binding a little? Look close at everything. Give us excellent detail. That will help dig out your issues. 

Pete

PS. Do you have a web page we can go visit?


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

Here are some more details that I hope will help you guide me to the answers. The system is a 96 volt system with 1231C-8601, PM-6, 16 US2200 interstate batteries, impulse 9 motor, 2/0 cabling, original 5 speed transmission & clutch, new tires, new brakes. Brakes seem fine and non binding.

I ran it last night before starting this thread but didn't charge it overnight. Checked the voltage at noon today. It was 100.4 volts. SOC at full segment. Drove 2 miles to a convenience store. Checked the 1231 for heat when I arrived and it was cool. Spent about 15 mintes in the store. Drove back and immediately checked the voltage which now was 77.0 (and rising as I had the tester on it). The 1231 felt warm. SOC gauge was already at 3rd segment down from top.

I'm putting the charger on it now to see when the charger hits fully charged, what the voltage will be. I'll report that later. I'm going to take the trip to the convenience store after fully charged to see what the voltage is when I return again.

It doesn't seem like anything strange with the motor, adapter or transmission. Like I had posted earlier, my starting acceleration is very poor. Definitely not like an ICE to start. At an intersection with a very slight incline, I have to be careful there are no cars coming for a long time in either direction because it will be very slow for me to get out and make the turn and get the car up to speed. Once I get up to 15 to 20 the speed seems good. Today I was letting the speed get up to more like 40 before shifting to 2nd and then closer to 50 before shifting to 3rd. 50 to 55mph is about the fastest i've had it. Not sure if it matters but I tested each individual battery and everyone is putting out 6.2 volts.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2009)

I am wondering if the brushes are fully seated? With 96 volt system you should be doing fine. Not super fast but should be quick enough to get into traffic. I have no trouble in traffic or across intersections. I do however leave just a tad more room only because I want that extra margin of safety. Have you tested your pot to see if it is giving full range? It is a 5K pot or should be.


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

How can I tell if the brushes are fully seated. I'm not aware of any adjustments on the motor. Basically I installed it on the adapter, then on the transmission, then connected the cables per the diagrams. Other than that I didn't make any adjustments to the motor and didn't know there were any to make.

The pot is able to actuate to the complete on position, but I don't know if that is answering your question if it is giving me full range.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

You're batteries were down to 77!?!?!?!?!?! My 96 volt pack has NEVER sagged below 88 volts when I am pedal to the floor going up a 12% grade hill. (My little K99-4007 was not happy) It sounds like you have one or two bad batteries bringing down the whole system. 

84 volts on a 96 volt pack is DEAD. 77 is MURDER. After 5 miles of rather hilly terrain doing 35-40 MPH my pack reads about 99 volts after 2 minutes of rest. I am using 8 12 volt 125Ah Walmart MAXX29 batteries.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2009)

phantomcom said:


> How can I tell if the brushes are fully seated. I'm not aware of any adjustments on the motor. Basically I installed it on the adapter, then on the transmission, then connected the cables per the diagrams. Other than that I didn't make any adjustments to the motor and didn't know there were any to make.
> 
> The pot is able to actuate to the complete on position, but I don't know if that is answering your question if it is giving me full range.


Did you buy new batteries and check every one of them? Check your batteries. Check each cell and check the water level. 

You need to check out Lee Harts Battery Basics: 
http://www.evdl.org/lib/index.html

Pete : )


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

Bought Brand new batteries from dealer. I had the model number wrong earlier. They are the Interstate U2200UTL 6 volt Deep Cycle. 232 aH.

I'll check em all out this weekend.

Deano


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I don't think brush seating is the problem. If you can get to 55 mph, they should be fine.
Even a weak battery in the string shouldn't bother the takeoff.....distance and speed later yes, but not the start with a fresh charge.

Sounds a little like the pot, but yet you have good top speed.

Not riding the brake pedal???

With a fully charged pack, 1st gear.....what does it do if you floor it.....?

How many amps do you pull while doing this?

How is the motor temp, afterward?


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Do you have a good load tester?


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

Car is at the shop getting new springs and an alignment, so I haven't had a chance to check all the batteries. I don't always understand voltages as I think I should. After fully charging (at least the charger says we're fully charged), if I use a multi-meter on all the batteries, they read from 6.4volts to 6.5volts. I don't remember any below that or above that. I thought that a charged 6 volt should be around 7.2volts. Am I wrong about that?
On a fully charged pack, if I floor it, it creeps up to speed. Not even close to a ICE. My amp meter is a 500amp gauge and pegs at the 400-500amp range.
Haven't felt the motor to see if it is hot. Getting a load tester when the car comes back from the shop.


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

I haven't had time to check the batteries out completely yet, but I was noticing something recently. If I let the car on the charger for a couple of days and then take a drive about the same distance as usual, i notice that the SOC gauge stays at either the top led or the second led. If I put the charger on the car just overnight and check it the next morning, the charger will indicate the pak is fully charged. however if I take the same drive, the SOC gauge will drop to lower segements than before. It is almost making me wonder if the PFC-1500 charger is adequate and wondering if it is taking much longer for it charge the pak than it indicates. Any thoughts on that.

Acceleration from 0 to 30 from an intersection is still poor. Once I get it up to 30 and above it seems to accelerator quite nicely and a joy to drive. Hopefully I can test all the batteries tomorrow just to be sure, but is there anything else anyone would suggest i check concerning the acceleration.

Dean


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## Lordwacky (Jan 28, 2009)

phantomcom said:


> I haven't had time to check the batteries out completely yet, but I was noticing something recently. If I let the car on the charger for a couple of days and then take a drive about the same distance as usual, i notice that the SOC gauge stays at either the top led or the second led. If I put the charger on the car just overnight and check it the next morning, the charger will indicate the pak is fully charged. however if I take the same drive, the SOC gauge will drop to lower segements than before. It is almost making me wonder if the PFC-1500 charger is adequate and wondering if it is taking much longer for it charge the pak than it indicates. Any thoughts on that.
> 
> Acceleration from 0 to 30 from an intersection is still poor. Once I get it up to 30 and above it seems to accelerator quite nicely and a joy to drive. Hopefully I can test all the batteries tomorrow just to be sure, but is there anything else anyone would suggest i check concerning the acceleration.
> 
> Dean



Hmm that's interesting. I think it is time to start sanity checking. You should get a Killawatt meter or an old electrical meter from a house. Plug you charger in through it and see how much energy you are actually putting into the car with each charge. There will be an efficiency factor offset (the charger will not be able to convert all the energy it gets from the wall into energy it puts into the car) but this will at least give you an idea if the charger is doing its job the way it is supposed to be.

It also may be time to start bench marking against similar builds, what performance are they getting? Go through the garage and try to find people with similar builds. Key things would be acceleration rate, how many amps are they pulling etc.

To me, personally it sounds like you may have at least one bad battery, if not multiple. This is where a BMS would be very handy. If you could monitor the voltage across each battery while you are trying to accelerate you might find one or 2 that are saggin badly, otherwise you need to load test each battery with a load tester.

The fact you are pulling 500A at startup seems to indicate that your controller is working fine. But I'm not an expert.

Low power at high current is a sign a potentially bad motor too. What is the history on the motor?, maybe it is just tired and needs a rebuild?

I'm sorry I can't be more help.
--Mike


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

The motor and all components are brand new. Hopefully I will have a chance today to load test each battery to either find a problem or eliminate that as a potential cause.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2009)

> On a fully charged pack, if I floor it, it creeps up to speed. Not even close to a ICE. My amp meter is a 500amp gauge and pegs at the 400-500amp range.


Sounds like your in 3rd or 4th gear when starting out. Mine does the same in either of those gears. Sure your engaging the right gears? Shifter adjusted properly? My battery pack of 72 volts is at a resting voltage of about 76 to 78 volts when fully charged. Right off the charger it is at 82 volts. I took my pack to 69 volts yesterday. Starts to get sluggish at higher speeds at that voltage. I have a minimal voltage vehicle. 96 volts is not much better. But you should not be struggling to get into traffic. Remember you will not have a speed demon. It will not be super quick but it should do fine getting around town. 

Do you have a web site? Photos? Fun stuff like that? Maybe your curtis is not programmed properly? For sure get a heat sink on that controller. I am sooooo glad I put one on mine. 

Pete


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## farmerpj (Jun 16, 2009)

hi,

we have an older dakota with 1221c controller. even at its max of 120 volts, the performance is real sluggish. takes a while to get to 50 going thru the first 3 gears. won't even throw gravel in first gear, but it doesn't sound as slow as your vw. I know the motor and batteries are capable of so much more. looking at 1000amp controller from evparts.

paul


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

Finally, I can provide some sort of update. I checked all the batteries, after fully charged with a load tester. All tested out fine under load.
Then I charged again overnight proceeded to check every one of the cells in each battery using a temp correcting Hydrometer. I don't know if all Hydrometers are the same, but mine has a green or good, white for check, and red for problem.. This is the crazy part, although I did find 4 batteries that had 1 or 2 cells that just barely touched the red, not one of batteries were in the green in any cell. I'm not sure that I compensated correctly, so even the ones in the red could really have just been high in the white area. I just find it hard to believe that all these new batteries have problems. I'm going to check all the batteries that tipped slightly into the red again later today.

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm getting a full charge out of the charger, which is a ELCON PFC-1500. After it reads full charge, the battery pack usually reads 102.(something) . I always thought a 6 volt battery fully charged would be at around 7 or 7.2 volts.

On the 12th, I checked the battery pak, it was 104 (which was higher than usual). My SOC meter was peaked out above "10". I drove exactly 3.5 miles and stopped at a convenience store, the SOC was at "8.5" and immediately rising. Does that sound normal? I was in the convenience store for maybe 10 minutes then drove the 3.5 miles back. Once I reached home the SOC was "7.5" and rising.

On the 13th, after a full nights charge, I drove above 6 miles. Went into a store for about 15 minutes then drove the 1 miles to another store which was in for about 25 minutes. Then drove the 5 miles home. When I got home I took my package inside and then came back out and checked the overall voltage. It was 93 volts. 

The performance is still very sluggish in first and pulling out. When I first start out the performance is good, but by the time I go a mile to the next intersection, then I have to be cautious about how i pull out already. Obviously the farther I go, the slower it pulls out.

The car is finally painted and included is a link to some pictures. 

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/album.php?aid=77734&id=1657203669

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1016036&id=1657203669 
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1016036&id=1657203669


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2009)

After you charge and let them sit for a bit they should be at least 106 volts. Should be about 6.5 volts for each battery at rest and full charge. That is all I get. When it is just about to be pulled off the charger it should be around 110 volts then it will drop to about 106 at rest. There about! I am thinking now that your pot is not opening all the way. You sure it is? You should have reasonable acceleration in first and second. 

Pete


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

We found the problem. Pete you figured out the problem for me a few posts ago. I've been starting off in 3rd and only driving in 3rd, 4th or 5th. We were able to manually get the transmission into 1st this morning. The power and take-off is amazing. That has to be also why I have diminished battery life as well. I don't have it fixed yet, but at least we know the problem now.

Thanks to all of you, espcially Pete!
Dean


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2009)

Glad you figured it out and can now get that resolved. Gotta be much better now. I know what my car feels like when I miss first and catch 3rd. So sluggish but it will go. I am betting you are now sporting a nice BIG EV GRIN


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## phantomcom (Apr 14, 2009)

Definitely got the EV grin. It's unbelievable the difference. I am hoping that this will make a huge difference in the battery usage as well and give me greater range. I forgot to put the bushings back the one gear shift link part. That's all it was.

Now i want to consider something newer to convert. Anyone had any experience converting a newer VW bug convertible or chrysler PT Cruiser convertible?
Dean


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2009)

Check this one out: It is AC and hardtop but still a good model to follow. 

http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/Welcome.html


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