# Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

Would Zivan wire in a "low amperage" toggle switch into your charger?
I know Tim K has a mod to his charger referenced here:
http://914ev.blogspot.com/2007/02/whew-it-runs-again-zivan-mods-are-back.html

David



> glasers <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

>
> "but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac then your transformer will be
> trying
> to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"
>
> If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers. So if that is so I
> guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?

Unless you can turn down the current on the Zivan..

> Any recommendations on a cheap 110 back up charger for 144V 6V floodies
> (GC-2) or a way to get the converter to work?

144V is perfect for a Bad Boy charger. Doesn't get any cheaper than that.

FWIW: a Bad Boy is just a bridge rectifier and enough resistors (100'
extension cords) to limit the current to an acceptable level.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the coiled 
extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop your bridge rectifier.
The the extension cords become either your fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs
first.

> 144V is perfect for a Bad Boy charger. Doesn't get any cheaper than that.
> 
> FWIW: a Bad Boy is just a bridge rectifier and enough resistors (100'
> extension cords) to limit the current to an acceptable level.

-- 
lyn williams <[email protected]>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*



> lyn williams wrote:
> > Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the
> > coiled extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop
> > your bridge rectifier. The the extension cords become either your
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:44:42 -0700 (PDT), glasers


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

My new job was going to put in a 220 outlet for me to fast charge. The estimate from the electrician can out to a little over $1,100. Since we're going to be moving within a year they didn't want to spend the $$$. I bought one of these:

http://refreshyourhome.com/new-steamer-windows/220-V-CONVERTER.html

This assumes you can find two outlets, one from each phase. It seems to work fine. You simply plug in one line and then start plugging the second line in until you get an output light. If you don't have two sperate phases you don't get any output. I can easily push 22 amps into my pack with my PFC-20. I haven't tried to push it any harder than that, I don't want to start popping breakers at work. I'm happy pulling ~11 amps through each leg.

TiM





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

This has been done many times, Lyn - with no ill effects! Some of the racers 
(no longer on this list, alas!) do this on a regular basis, and have done it 
for years.

I'm not saying that there isn't a risk, but apparently not much of one, if 
done correctly.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "lyn williams" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger


> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the 
> coiled
> extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop your bridge 
> rectifier.
> The the extension cords become either your fuse....or your 
> ignitor....whichever occurs
> first.
>
>> 144V is perfect for a Bad Boy charger. Doesn't get any cheaper than 
>> that.
>>
>> FWIW: a Bad Boy is just a bridge rectifier and enough resistors (100'
>> extension cords) to limit the current to an acceptable level.
>
> -- 
> lyn williams <[email protected]>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 
> 6:35 PM
>
>
> 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

I bought a RUSSCO Electric Vehicle SC 18-120/72-156 Charger and have had good
luck.
list price is $645
I like the fact I can easily adjust both the voltage & current.
I bought the unit with auto shut-off.
shred
http://www.russcoev.com

I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220

http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html

for rare times I am able to opportunity charge. I have a 220 Zivan NG-3 and
I think it was John recommended this solution. I asked Zivan if this would
work and they said....

"but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac then your transformer will be trying
to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"

If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers. So if that is so I
guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?

Any recommendations on a cheap 110 back up charger for 144V 6V floodies
(GC-2) or a way to get the converter to work?


Thanks

Soren
----- Original Message ----- 


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/110-to-220-converter-or-new-charger-tp18533322p18540690.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:17:54 -0700 (PDT), TiM M <[email protected]> wrote:

>My new job was going to put in a 220 outlet for me to fast charge. The estimate from the electrician can out to a little over $1,100. Since we're going to be moving within a year they didn't want to spend the $$$. I bought one of these:
>
>http://refreshyourhome.com/new-steamer-windows/220-V-CONVERTER.html

Geez, what a price. Here's the same thing for half the price and with the
kind of 240 volt outlet we want.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/50-amp-rv-box-adapter/25774

Camping world is one of the higher priced vendors.

>
>This assumes you can find two outlets, one from each phase. It seems to work fine. You simply plug in one line and then start plugging the second line in until you get an output light. If you don't have two sperate phases you don't get any output. I can easily push 22 amps into my pack with my PFC-20. I haven't tried to push it any harder than that, I don't want to start popping breakers at work. I'm happy pulling ~11 amps through each leg.

There is one major problem with this thing. It absolutely will not work on
GFI outlets. 

There is literally nothing inside the box. This is something that one can
throw together from Home Depot parts for probably $50 or less. Here's how it
works.

Two 120 volt cords coming in, call them A and B and for EV purposes, assume
that the 240 volt outlet is our favorite 50 amp range outlet.

The hot (black) wire of cord A connects to one hot pole of the range outlet.
The hot (black) wire of cord B connects to the other hot pole. Both neutrals
(white wires) are connected to the outlet's neutral pole. The two ground
(green) wires are connected to the outlet's ground pole. That's all there is
to it. Add a 240 volt pilot light if you want indication of 240 volts. With
a range outlet, technically you don't even need the box, as both cords will
fit through the hole in the range outlet.

The one that Camping World is selling has two 30 amp 120 volt RV plugs for a
good reason. That's the only way to have an outdoor 120 volt connection that
meets code but doesn't have a GFI. They used to sell the box with standard
convenience plugs but that became useless since the non-GFI outdoor outlet is
getting to be a rare bird.

This type of adapter is great - I carry one in my catering truck - but the
chances of being able to use it for opportunity charging are rare unless one
can gain access to indoor, non-GFI outlets.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad boy is
unlikely to generate a dangerous amount of current into a 144V pack. The
rectified peak voltage of a 120VAC line is only around 165 volts, which is
basically float charge level voltage for a 144 VDC pack. A depleted pack
will pull some amps, but really not that much. I think a lot of the bad
reputation bad boy chargers got was from using them to charge 120VDC (and
lower) packs back in the day, which required the resistance from lengthy
extension cords to cut the voltage and current to a point where the circuit
breakers wouldn't trip. Of course, the cords got hot, and the current
didn't drop off as full charge was approached, so it was easy to cook the
batteries if nobody was watching. At 144 VDC you don't need extension cords
- the voltage differential between the rectified line current and the
batteries is small enough that the internal resistance of the batteries and
wiring between the rectifier and the pack should be enough to keep the
current in a manageable range. I think a bad boy makes a good opportunity
charger for a 144 VDC pack. I'd wire in a GFCI just for safety, and add an
ammeter just to be able to see what's happening, but not much else is needed
or an opportunity charger. It won't give you a maximized charge profile,
but it would stuff some electrons into your pack, tapering to a float charge
as the batts fill up. 





> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > lyn williams wrote:
> >> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*



> Steve Condie wrote:
> > I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad
> > boy is unlikely to generate a dangerous amount of current into a 144V
> > pack...
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

That's all true. A "dim boy", with a boost transformer adjustable with a
garden variety light dimmer, a timer, GFCI, circuit breaker, ammeter and
voltmeter is easy to build and costs less than $100 in readily available
parts. Plus it has the advantage of letting you see what happens with your
pack at various voltages. It will still be limited to about 8 amps from a
standard outlet due to the lousy power factor, but 8 amps is better than
nothing.




> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > Steve Condie wrote
> >> I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*



> Steve Condie wrote:
> > A "dim boy", with a boost transformer adjustable with a garden
> > variety light dimmer, a timer, GFCI, circuit breaker, ammeter and
> > voltmeter is easy to build and costs less than $100 in readily
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

Hi John, I just got back from a quick vacation. I want to try this idea with
the resistance. The Zivan is a smart charger so it is all over the place,
with a max amps of about 18 for 240 charging. I am a bit confused about the
pots and switch idea, Can you help me out with a schematic? I am an
electronics newbie I'm afraid, but trying to learn fast.

Soren





> Neon John wrote:
> >
> >
> > Nah, just add a little switchable resistance to the charging circuit, just
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

A 144v pack sure won't need any resistors going to the rectifier. I
had to use a boost transformer to fully charge the pack. A dimmer
switch on the transformer handles the voltage control enough to limit
the amperage when the pack is low to avoid tripping breakers.



> lyn williams <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the coiled
> > extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop your bridge rectifier.
> > The the extension cords become either your fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

Just to clarify - you will *not* get any meaningful inductance (high 
enough to limit AC current from 60 Hz mains) by coiling AC extension 
cord, no matter how tight. This is foolish and dangerous, please
educate yourself first. The bridge will pop on the first AC cycle from 
enormous peak current (unless breaker pops first), not because of 
inductance of the coiled cord.

Victor

>>


> lyn williams <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the coiled
> >> extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop your bridge rectifier.
> >> The the extension cords become either your fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:00:09 -0700 (PDT), glasers


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Hi John, I just got back from a quick vacation. I want to try this idea with
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

You aren't using the coiled extension cord for inductance; you're using it
for resistance. Even a few ohms will limit the peak AC current quite a bit.

If the extension cord is 1 ohm, the battery voltage is 150V, and the peak
rectified AC is 170V, then the current will be limited to 20 amps (or lower
due to battery internal resistance). Without the extension cord, you would
get much higher currents.

If the rectifier bridge pops, it's probably because you didn't use one with
a high enough rating, or it went into thermal overload.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Metric Mind <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Just to clarify - you will *not* get any meaningful inductance (high
> > enough to limit AC current from 60 Hz mains) by coiling AC extension
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger*

John I have a 144 V system, with the Zivan NG3 Charger that switches amps
dependign on the state of charge. The max amps is 18. Does that help?

Soren



Sorry about the delay in responding. Been away for a couple of days.

Re: resistance. I'll need some details of your setup. You may have already
provided that info but I have a short memory  Specifically, pack voltage
and charging current.

re: switches and pots. Which Zivan do you have? I have several different
models so if I have the same or similar one, I can probably show you what I
have in mind with photos.


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View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/110-to-220-converter-or-new-charger-tp18533322p18679924.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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