# [EVDL] Charging floodies - IUI or IU???



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm trying the decide the best way to charge ( on a daily basis) the USGC-
8 's in my fairly new converted Echo.

The question is this : should I be using an IUI method ( ending with
constant current until the voltage stops rising) for every charge, or just
IU ?



USBatteries says to use IUI for every charge :
http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/charging_instruction_2011_2.pdf , and
to equalize periodically - USBatteries says to equalize with a constant
voltage for a few hours after the IUI charge.


and, both Lee Hart ( http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html ) and Uve (
http://www.evdl.org/uve/battery.html ) say that, for normal charging, the
first two parts of the charge ( constant current to 2.4 VPC and constant
voltage ( until it drops to a certain current) are all that should be done.
Both Lee and Uve call the third part of the IUI cycle equalization, and
say that it should not be done for every charge ( and, that frequent
equalization will shorten battery life)


Suggestions, or comments, please?? My goal is to maximize battery
lifetime. I generally don't discharge below about 50%.


Here is a description of my conversion : http://www.evalbum.com/3989


Phil Marino
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Phil,

I am using the IUI method on my US Batteries since Sept 4 2009. Today there 
are 1002 charge cycles and they are performing better than the day I install 
them. It took over 600 cycles to get to peak performance which is when the 
surface of the plates has open up more surface areas than when first pasted 
which is a overlapping plate surface.

About 90 percent of the time, It only takes about 10 minutes to charge the 
battery to 99% SOC or about 10 minutes per mile. I do not try to take all 
the batteries to 100% SOC all the time because it takes too long. Most of 
the batteries are setting at 99% SOC. Did the 100% SOC only 3 or 4 times 
which may take the battery temperature over 80 F. I normally keep the 
battery temperature between 65 to 75 F all year.

The battery I am using is a 251 AH which I charge at 251/10 or at 25 amps 
until the voltage rises to 7.75 volts for a 6 volt battery. It is held at 
7.75 volts until the ampere drops to 251/50 or 5 amps which is consider 100% 
SOC.

The battery pack I had before were Trojans 245 AH using this type of 
charging method, but I charge at 50 amps until the voltage rise to 7.4 
volts. These 30 batteries lasted me 8.8 years until 6 of them drop 75% in 
capacity. 24 of the batteries are still being use in a another EV which I 
modified the Low Profile Stud post to a auto post. These low profile post 
studs could not withstand the 95 inch pound torque force as per specified 
which started to pull out of the pad. Sometimes even the 75 in.lb. torque 
would pull them out.

Trojan only use a standard stainless steel hex head bolt that was imbedded 
only 1/16 to 1/8 of a inch below the surface. The Exides I had before, had 
a long L shape head imbedded deep in post where you can torque to 15 foot 
pounds with no problems.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Marino" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 6:54 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Charging floodies - IUI or IU???


> I'm trying the decide the best way to charge ( on a daily basis) the USGC-
> 8 's in my fairly new converted Echo.
>
> The question is this : should I be using an IUI method ( ending with
> constant current until the voltage stops rising) for every charge, or 
> just
> IU ?
>
>
>
> USBatteries says to use IUI for every charge :
> http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/charging_instruction_2011_2.pdf , and
> to equalize periodically - USBatteries says to equalize with a constant
> voltage for a few hours after the IUI charge.
>
>
> and, both Lee Hart ( http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html ) and Uve 
> (
> http://www.evdl.org/uve/battery.html ) say that, for normal charging, 
> the
> first two parts of the charge ( constant current to 2.4 VPC and constant
> voltage ( until it drops to a certain current) are all that should be 
> done.
> Both Lee and Uve call the third part of the IUI cycle equalization, and
> say that it should not be done for every charge ( and, that frequent
> equalization will shorten battery life)
>
>
> Suggestions, or comments, please?? My goal is to maximize battery
> lifetime. I generally don't discharge below about 50%.
>
>
> Here is a description of my conversion : http://www.evalbum.com/3989
>
>
> Phil Marino
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> |
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland -

It sounds like you are using IU , and not IUI. You are doing a two stage
charge. The IUI that USBatteries recomments on their website includes a
third step. After the current drops to 5 amps while holding the voltage,
they recommend that you then keep the current at 5 amps until the voltage
stops rising.

This is the part that I'm not sure if I should be doing for every charge.

Phil




> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Phil,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Phil,

The charger I am using is a Manaznita Micro PFC charger that uses constant 
current while the voltage raises to the maximum set point. As the voltage 
reaches the maximum set point, it then becomes a constant voltage while the 
ampere drops during a time cycle.

The voltage stays at the constant voltage and never rises during the time 
out cycle. If I reduce the current during the time cycle, than this will 
lower the voltage. If I increase the current again, the current will resume 
at the level that it was at during the time out cycle.

When the current drops just below 5 amps and holds at that ampere until the 
time out is accomplished. Then it goes into a standby mode where the 
voltage drops to about 99% SOC charge voltage which is about 6.7 to 6.8 
volts which is normally a maintainer charge.

I may shut it down at this time. I could keep it in standby mode to get to 
100% SOC, but this is not cost effective for me, because of the short 2 to 5 
miles I drive.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Marino" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charging floodies - IUI or IU???


> Roland -
>
> It sounds like you are using IU , and not IUI. You are doing a two stage
> charge. The IUI that USBatteries recomments on their website includes a
> third step. After the current drops to 5 amps while holding the voltage,
> they recommend that you then keep the current at 5 amps until the voltage
> stops rising.
>
> This is the part that I'm not sure if I should be doing for every charge.
>
> Phil
>
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Phil,
> > >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Phil Marino wrote:
> 
> > The IUI that USBatteries recomments on their website includes a
> > third step. After the current drops to 5 amps while holding the voltage,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 2 Feb 2012 at 10:32, Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > The charger I am using is a Manaznita Micro PFC charger ...
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger -
5 amps sounded high to me also for the 8 volters, but the USB instructions
say to use 3% of the C20 rating in amps as the "finish current" and 3 %
of 170AH is just a hair over 5 amps. So, I've been using 5 amps.

My question comes down to this - should I consider the third "I" of the IUI
charge to be equalization ( and only do it periodically, or when the
batteries go out of balance), or, as USB says every cycle.

>From what you (and others) say, every cycle is too much. But, then, why
does USB recommend that?

Nawaz - are you out there??

Thanks

Phil Marino



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Phil Marino wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've had fairly good service from USBMC's batteries, but I'm a little less 
sure of their charging instructions. I suspect that those instructions are 
mainly aimed at commercial users, who need the absolute maximum available 
range daily.

Here are Lee Hart's excellent general recommendations for charging lead 
batteries :

http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html

And his battery care basics :

http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartbatt.html

My experience has been that more batteries are killed by overcharging than 
by undercharging. Translation: I've personally killed more batteries by 
overcharging than by undercharging. ;-)

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Phil Marino wrote:
> 
> > 5 amps sounded high to me also for the 8 volters, but the USB instructions
> > say to use 3% of the C20 rating in amps as the "finish current" and 3 %
> ...


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