# Latvian mazda RX-8 project



## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Batteries placed in a first floor.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Very much looking forward to seeing more pictures of your project! I see you had fun spinning the tires on the snow...impressive for a build without a transmission and with a projected top speed of 170 km/hr- how you managed all that without a transmission will be very interesting to understand in detail.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Tire spinning looks impressive, but it comes from controllers code. Originally this car come with very good traction control system, that did not work with electric motor. When tires loose traction controller keep build up speed. That is not so good for tire life and safety on road, but looks impressive. It spins on dirty concrete too, without snow.
Top speed expectations come from motor performance and my calculated car drag power charts, it is point where two lines crosses, real life can add some corrections in any direction.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Sadly, I am not a social life fan and did not made tons of pictures from working process, but try to put some that I have.
It is test bench for motor and flanch design using a final axle from another mazda.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Cool project and interesting setup.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Specially on my request GLELEC programmed this little screen for me, or may be not only for me J. Long time I have no luck to get it work. Finally, I find that serial pin schematics given from them was a little bit wrong. Who has worked with serial connections in computer world knows how easy is mess send/receive wires.


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## rx8spark (Mar 6, 2013)

Class looks Great,

I look forward to more video. 
I am very interested to know what you think of leaving the gearbox out, I two wish to convert a RX8 but never thought off removing the box, but this could lighten and give more battery space. 
Does the car run out off power at 30+ mph or any issues with acceleration. 
My thought would be to use AC drive so reverse would be easy with electric switch but one gear may be limiting . 
Good work well done.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

I try to explain how I see this “one speed” approach.
 At the early state of project research I found that minimum torque on wheels for car like RX8 (1400/1800kg) is around 1250 Nm. Divide it with final gear ratio 4.44 and I get that motor must have max torque around 300 Nm. That gives “normal” acceleration from stand still, even uphill, bet it is just below the numbers to allow you spin the tires on clean soft asphalt. OEM cars like Leaf or Volt can produce twice us much torq on wheels, but they are equipped with traction control systems. It is up to you leave gearbox or spend it. My decision you now. If I found that I need more power I can play with final gear later. There are many possibilities 4.44/4.6/4.78/5.125 that gives 1332/1380/1434/1537 Nm on wheels. Of course steps between  numbers is small, but it is a possibility.
 I put here my motors power chart. 
Every 1000 motor rpm is approx. 27 km/h. Sweet moment is that max torq is from still to apr 60 km/h


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## rx8spark (Mar 6, 2013)

Hi
This is very interesting I am rethinking my approach I might go direct to Diff if a suitable AC can be fitted in and if price of Dff ratio change is not to bad.
Thanks


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## Friday_EV (Dec 9, 2014)

RX8Spark said:


> Hi
> This is very interesting I am rethinking my approach I might go direct to Diff if a suitable AC can be fitted in and if price of Dff ratio change is not to bad.
> Thanks


RX8Spark,

look at those motors -http://www.enstroj.si/Electric-products/emrax-268.html

I am planning to use EMRAX 268 in my RX-8 conversion, direct to diff. Should have similar performance as Berlinger's but with top speed of 140km/h (with 400V+ system) or 110km/h (less than 400V system) and no changes to diff ratio required.


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

note that all emrax motors, liquid cooled also - need air cooling, there are no way to cool all of the parts of the motor via liquid. This is a big disadvantage when compared to remy or siemens or other motors that can be cooled with oil, both stator and rotor. And it is an outrunner, so You will need to build a custom shell around the motor to prevent damage or something to the rotor.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Somebody ask me to show how motor and battery boxes looks. Here it is. I put controller near the motor, to keep cooling system shorter and power cables as short as possible. Front motor support can’t be seen from this side, it is made from Toyota motor support.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Small schematics how battery boxes is located.


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## rx8spark (Mar 6, 2013)

Hi Berlinger 

That look a very functional set up, not eating into boot space, will leave the car very usable daily. I do not think your C of G will move that much forward to be a concern. 
I may well take a leaf out of your book and go direct to diff if acceleration and top end not affected to much. This seem like the perfect set up. However as with all things it is a compromise and this looks like a very agreeable balance. I am very keen to here how you get on when it come to performance evaluation and how you find the practicalities of battery Monerating and management . In my work shop I have a pit and service access would work well for me.
Well done
Good Luck


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I like your build alot Berlinger. May I ask what you think about the quality of the motor kit? Do you have a link to the manufacturers information etc please? The motor chart you posted does not show. Thank you.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Your build is giving me a confidence to go direct drive as well.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Before follow my steps and go “direct” drive in that way pls double check your needs. My car is tuned for efficiency. Target is get 300 km range from this pack and will see how lucky I am. 
It is sad that I can’t check performance on road, that will help a lot. Do not be impressed from tire spinning in video, it happens only because traction is low. With gearbox that Mazda can be a beast, but not now. J 
About motor/controller. Uhh.., it is weary long story. I get their contacts in exhibition and it was in October 2013. Products is made very well, and it is the reason I start speaking with them. Shenzhen Greatland Electrics Co.,Ltd is name of this company. Most of info about company you can find in their site, and contacts too. Information about their products on site is poor, I have a brochure from exhibition and it is ten times more informative. If you now your needs just ask. Be aware that all communication goes true girls from marketing department. They are very trying to help, but they are not engineers. Lot of mistakes happen. Actually you can’t imagine how much… I get wrong drawings, wrong schematics and spend weeks after that to try find what is wrong. Controller can be used in analog or CAN mode, but you must choose it from beginning. It is full programmable, with many functions and possibilities, but I don’t now how to realize that if you do not speak Chinese, directly with engineer. Price is best in this story, it cost for me close to Solition/Kostov price….


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

What are the specs of that motor.

Even at 600a and 250v mine would be a dog to drive around in 4th (1:1 ratio)


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello Berlinger. Do you think you could scan the brochure and share it with US please? Also, sorry to be a bother, but can you post the motor chart in a different format like JPEG as I cannot view it. Thank you very much. 

Also, may I ask why you chose a large vehicle like rx8 for range not smaller vehicle? Is it just space for batteries, or all family etc? Thanks


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Hi Skooler, I follow your tread very carefully and it helps me a lot, thanks for it! Motor is conservative rated to 70 kw max and 30 nominal power. Because it is factory made motor/controller combo I can’t change they settings and push it harder like you can with Soliton. From other side I know that I can’t damage things to push it too much. When I finish cooling loop I will test car on road and made some comparisons. After skiing holiday I return from Italy on crunches and it little bit slow my progress.  Do you know what is max torque from alpha with 600 A?


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Hi Tyler, I send a private message to you, do you get it? Anyway chart is in .pdf format, all what you need is Adobe Reader and it is for free.
Brochure is too big to scan it and put here. It show that GLELEC can made motors of any size, from golf cars to 12 m buses. Who cares about buses here? J Anyway, when I clear my needs they offer a very different range of products, Feel free to ask them what you need and you will be surprised how wide their product range is.
Rx8 is big compromise; it has for seats and good aerodynamics are cheap and can carry 400 kg of battery. It is good looking car, that not boring me.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank you Berlinger. Yes I have your message. Thank you. It is a lovely car, I agree. I hope the performance is acceptable. Calculations suggest it will be decent, like an economic family car. I wish you good luck, and a speedy recovery from the skiing. Hope to see some progress soon. 
Tyler


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Mike
The Kostov should be making about 220NM at 600A according to their motor chart, which is considerably less than the expected 300+ of Berlinger's. The bigger question is how will the weight differ? I thing saving the gearbox and torq arm have samed some weight and it will help further to acceleration. If you have 220NM and Berlinger has 300+NM then I'd expect it to be comparable to your car in 3rd gear. Do you agree with that logic? What is your car like to drive in 3rd? You mention you use that gear mostly. What speed can you achieve in third?

Sorry to take over your thread Berlinger but I am interested in your direct drive route also.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

tylerwatts said:


> Mike
> The Kostov should be making about 220NM at 600A according to their motor chart, which is considerably less than the expected 300+ of Berlinger's. The bigger question is how will the weight differ? I thing saving the gearbox and torq arm have samed some weight and it will help further to acceleration. If you have 220NM and Berlinger has 300+NM then I'd expect it to be comparable to your car in 3rd gear. Do you agree with that logic? What is your car like to drive in 3rd? You mention you use that gear mostly. What speed can you achieve in third?
> 
> Sorry to take over your thread Berlinger but I am interested in your direct drive route also.


seems good logic but 220nm seems a bit low. I thought I was around 180-200-ftlbs.

I live in a hilly areas so use 2nd more than third for starting.

third gets me to about 55mph before the motor imbalance becomes audible.

Acceleration in third on flat ground is more than reasonable. I'd compare to a small petrol hatchback.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Ok. I simply extrapolated the Kostov graph on the k11 alpha page. 

I'm cautiously optimistic that Berlinger will be very pleased. I'm using an i-MIEV as donor for my build and expect similar performance which will make a great city/fun car. I'm cheating though by basing it on a classic that had similar power so it will feel better in an EV. Rode the tram a few times this week and though not blistering even that had my EV grin going thinking about finishing my project. 

Good luck Berlinger, I look forward to your testing. Hopefully the weather will improve. 
Regards 
Tyler


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## rx8spark (Mar 6, 2013)

Hi Friday_EV

Yes thanks, I had a look at that link the power to kg is good, the more I read about direct drive the better the option looks to me. Regarding cooling, if I get that far, there is a product called "Water Wetter" mix with water or coolant and it makes the liquid draw away more heat. I heard about it from a chap who ran it in a LPG conversion and claimed great results.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Test drive finally made and results are very good. Top speed is 160 km/h and it exactly matches with my one-year-old graphs. J Deep in my heart I hope that I was make mistake and car drag force is less, but that did not happened. 70 kW is exactly at 160 km/h. Anyway, max speed is only for reference, with my pack it is only for 30 min run. J
Acceleration 0-100 takes 14 sec, 0-50 6.2 sec. Max battery amp I have seen is 260A. At 50 km/h car uses ~6.8 kW and it can give me ~280km range (theoretical), by 100 km/h ~17 kW (220 km range).
What I really want to know is weight of car, but I can weigh it only Monday. Must wait.
In addition, I find couple bugs, must contact GLELEC Monday. Motor temperature reading is wrong, it show 20 degrees more than actually is. Moreover, biggest bug is regen settings. Regen is set at 15 Nm and it is absolutely insignificant. With my cars weight and my driving style I need more or better adjustable setting.


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## rx8spark (Mar 6, 2013)

Magic good news well done. 
It will be really useful if regen can be increased . Maybe temperature is core temperature ,which could I "think" be the different from casing if that is where you are measuring.
Performance figures are very workable. Did you see the not I left about 
Water Wetter, it might help Temp if it is an Issue.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Excellent news berlinger! Congratulations. That is very respectable performance in my opinion. Hopefully you can make a short video soon to show us.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Here is small video from acceleration test drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKlGoQlyi-4

Speed test was done on realy bad road and is too shaky to use it....


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

This is awesome.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Excellent berlinger. Congratulations again, that seems like great acceleration! I don't think my build will be that quick and certainly not the top speed either. I am impressed.


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## Friday_EV (Dec 9, 2014)

This is indeed a good acceleration. Congrats and thanks for sharing! 

I was looking at the GLMP40L0 (the next stronger motor in offer from the company you've mentioned) that would allow for around 9s acceleration. The top speed would be however at 140km/h (limited by max rpm) and the motor + controller is 60kg heavier then yours.

Your video makes me think whether that slightly quicker solution is really required.


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Top speed make me little blind. In brainstorming phase, I think: “Mazda looks so fast car, it was shame if after conversion it will go “only” 120/130km/h…” Now I change my mind, but it is little too late…
FridayEV did you send email to GLELEC and get answer? Ask them about GLMP25L1+GLCP7024L6 … It must be right choose. May be it will be in my next Mazda, a perfect one, that live in my mind.
Yesterday I weigh my car. It is 1520kg curb weight.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Berlinger, for comparison which motor and controller do you have now?
I can't find either of the motors you two mentioned above. Can you show me please? Thanks


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## Friday_EV (Dec 9, 2014)

Tyler, I found their offer of motors on this page http://ecopowerpack.com/products.php?CateId=39 

Berlinger, I did send GLELEC a message but didn't get anything back. I did though contact EcoPowerPack and they quoted 12k USD for GLMP40L0 and it's controller. This is a price without shipping cost.

I think RX8 would be a blast with this motor as it's twice as powerful as GLMP25L1.

That's an impressive weight! In my calcs I'm assuming almost 1800kg!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh I was looking directly on the glelec website. Now I see the proper range. Thanks

Berlinger 
That is definitely an impressive weight! Well done. Did you do anything to target a low weight?


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Fantastic- you should be very pleased!


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Hi Everybody!
Thanks, I like this car too! My car is only 50% my built another is from this forum. Special thanks to all old “dinosaurs” of this forum who posting here for years and help hundreds of youngsters like me!
Friday EV, this motor looks too big. GLMP40L0 is for 7m buss and my view is that 130 kg motor is too big for rx8. You definitely will have problems mounting it in car structure. Wait a little when GLELEC will answer you. They actually can make motor for your needs. My understanding is that they can use different magnets and voltage settings in same motor case and get what the target is. The same happens with me. I found 250 Nm 220V motor, made some math and suspect it is too weak for my car. They say OK and offer two different motors 300 and 450! Nm with approximately same size. Price differs approx. 1k $ but is half of what you posted.
Yes Tyler I do, I think about it all time! J No special actions taken only made all things as light as possible. I would like see it 100 kilos lighter, but it is impossible with my battery size. RX8 has old style car body and it is damn heavy. Structure is from “soft” steel, not like new VW and AUDI where lot of special hot forming panels is used. Except that mazda has done great job and every part is made as light as possible. No many things to lighten here and it definitely not worth money you must spend for it.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Will you post some finished car photos Belringer? To showcase your build? Thanks


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Yes Tyler, I will, only need finish my car before…. 
I spend three weeks to get my power steering to work. Trying to simulate motor signals first, then playing with too different CAN analyzers, making a “library” of Mazda CAN protocols….. start believe than some kind of mystic is here…. till today.
Today I just try to use another power steering ECU and it come a live! I can’t imagine what happened with my original unit, it is strange, it works with ICE a year ago. If it will work, I will get my PS to work on first attempt six months ago! Anyway, now I know how simulate all lamps on dash and after reading tons of info about CAN network I can teach about it in school.


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## mira9_cz (Feb 27, 2013)

berlinger said:


> *Yes Tyler, I will, only need finish my car before…. *
> *I spend three weeks to get my power steering to work. Trying to simulate motor signals first, then playing with too different CAN analyzers, making a “library” of Mazda CAN protocols….. start believe than some kind of mystic is here…. till today.*
> *Today I just try to use another power steering ECU and it come a live! I can’t imagine what happened with my original unit, it is strange, it works with ICE a year ago. If it will work, I will get my PS to work on first attempt six months ago! Anyway, now I know how simulate all lamps on dash and after reading tons of info about CAN network I can teach about it in school.*


Wow, what a progress! Congratulations. I think you should be the one to start Mazda CAN Bus thread ;-)


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## MrBlues (Aug 18, 2017)

Hi guys! Im new at this forum and wonder how you get on with your RX8 build? After years of hesitation - mostly due to cost- Im getting nearer and after reading these threads I cant hold myself. Are you satisfied with your build?


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## berlinger (Oct 13, 2012)

Wow! Somebody find this thread after 2.5 years of silence! Impressive! 
How satisfied I am with my build? Good question. I make my car street legal in 2016 and have driven 10 tkm in that year. Car performs like planned, has range 160-185 km , top speed 170 km/h, has weak acceleration 12s 0-100, but I can live with that till… I participate couple of amateur competitions. Electric cars are so good on race tracks! I can fight with 2-3 times more powerful ICE cars (with weak drivers of course) and get lot of fun from that. And then I start make changes in my project: I replace my 400 kg Winston pack with 140kg Chevy Volt Gen 2 pack, after that car is 100 kg lighter than before conversion and now I have problems with weight distribution and suspension. Long story short: car is in the project stage again.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

berlinger said:


> ... I replace my 400 kg Winston pack with 140kg Chevy Volt Gen 2 pack, after that car is 100 kg lighter than before conversion and now I have problems with weight distribution and suspension. Long story short: car is in the project stage again.


Do you have weights (for each axle, showing the distribution) with the original and new battery packs? How has the battery placement changed from the plan which you showed back in post #14?


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## MrBlues (Aug 18, 2017)

Ok so an on going project then. If you would build it from scratch today what would you do different? I recon it all comes down to what kind of car you want. I looking to build a car that I can use year around witch in Gothenburg, Sweden means sometimes salty, slushy roads in the winter. Ofcourse I want the car to be at least as fast as with the ICE but I guess in the end the economi sets the bar.


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