# Interested in building a EV Drag-And-Drive Car



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Seems a bit shy on the money, otherwise doable


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

lol...850 extra pounds of motor is not competitive for anything other than holding down a concrete slab in a hurricane.


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## UglyCarFan (8 mo ago)

This is a very interesting concept. The idea Evdoc proposed about pulling a trailer with a spare pack doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. You might need extra room for tires, tools, etc. The need to go long distances means significant battery, and that is going to be your most expensive component. Could you consider a hybrid, so you have a regular engine to get from track to track, and work on getting more power out of the EV component? Would it be cheating to do an EV, but carry gas and a small, efficient generator in a trailer?

How about a small truck, El Camino, etc? Have a couple solar panels mounted on the trailer for charging? 
I've never heard of this...it sounds like a lot of fun.

I also agree with Remy...your budget may be the toughest part. And of course, weight is also your enemy.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Evdoc said:


> LOL I agree the motor is a beast and the controller to power that beast would be for real. This equipment is not for the hobbyist, this is professional equipment...


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## DumpsterBaby (7 mo ago)

UglyCarFan said:


> This is a very interesting concept. The idea Evdoc proposed about pulling a trailer with a spare pack doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. You might need extra room for tires, tools, etc. The need to go long distances means significant battery, and that is going to be your most expensive component. Could you consider a hybrid, so you have a regular engine to get from track to track, and work on getting more power out of the EV component? Would it be cheating to do an EV, but carry gas and a small, efficient generator in a trailer?
> 
> How about a small truck, El Camino, etc? Have a couple solar panels mounted on the trailer for charging?
> I've never heard of this...it sounds like a lot of fun.
> ...


Fuel is the one thing that is allowed to be carried by other people. I'm not sure how that would work with batteries. If it's treated like gas then I could have a whole truck full of batteries following me, but that would kill some of the fun of the event. If I was to do anything like that I think a generator to charge the batteries every 50ish miles would be better and fit more along w/the spirit of the event. I could do a hybrid vehicle, but I'd rather not. I feel I'd put more effort into the ICE portion than the electrical. My truck has basically the opposite of that mainly gas with a generator for extra effort. I've never even thought about upgrading the generator on that only the ICE.

For reference some of the more higher powered cars (6-7 second 1/4 mile) can take 12+ hours to get from track to track with fuel stops, cooling down the motor, maintenance, etc. So speed getting to the track isn't a concern. I just want to make it with whatever vehicle I end up with.

My first thought for a shell was a Dodge D50 or 1st Gen Dakota. Enough to hold the payload of the batteries and tow a small trailer without being too heavy to start with. I can find those local (not running) for less than $1000 with a manual transmission. I'm thinking if I go the EV route I would rip out any non critical trim/part/etc for max weight reduction to help with any added weight from gear and a trailer.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

A fast battery swap (the Model S was designed for it) is the way to get consistent, boringly identical, runs.

Charging in the pits means generator or "shore" power. Towing a heavy trailer with spare batteries and generator is an option, but has diminishing returns as your range will get cut in half by the trailer, batteries, and genset.

@Electric Land Cruiser just returned from a rock crawling event and used local public chargers. This seems to be the best bet, something that was difficult to contemplate even three years ago.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

I'm guessing that charging in the pits at the drag events is not an issue, because a battery large enough to deliver the designed power for the runs will also have enough energy capacity for multiple runs. The challenge then becomes getting energy for both the runs and the drives between drag locations, during the drives. The obvious solution, even if it is not desired, is a series hybrid configuration with an engine and generator in the trailer, and battery in the car; the relatively small engine would be set up and operated for maximum efficiency, only needing to deliver enough electrical energy during the drive to handle the drive and recharge for the next drag event. Any purely battery-electric solution will involve lots of charging somewhere, either at a public charging station while other participants are driving, or overnight, or at the non-existent charging station at the event.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Again, was the question asked three years ago, the generator trailer would be an option. Charging stations are plentiful, and by the time this car is done, US Infrastructure funding will have filled in the blanks so there's a charger every 50 miles.


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## DumpsterBaby (7 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Again, was the question asked three years ago, the generator trailer would be an option. Charging stations are plentiful, and by the time this car is done, US Infrastructure funding will have filled in the blanks so there's a charger every 50 miles.


I'm not sure relying on possible chargers every 50 miles is an option. The event requires racers to follow a very specific route and the route isn't known until you turn your timeslip in for the day. The route itself could manage to bypass a nearby charger, which would mean leaving the route and returning at the same spot or risking making to the next spot. On some level I'll need a backup to make sure I can make it from charger to charger or in the event of a battery failure. I plan on finding this years routes and map out how often they pass by chargers on the PlugInAmerica website. 

Also most tracks do have a dedicated charger or some form of power that can be used.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

In these pioneering days, it's important that the race organizers are aware that charging stations are more important for an EV than a gas station is to ICE because you can't carry an $18 container with you to store your race energy. 

Arriving half or a quarter tank empty to a track is an advantage for an ICE, whereas an EV gets degraded. Same goes for each run.

The EV community can't be passive, but needs to be activist, and create awareness of needs/requirements, in this transition.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

My car does 12.2 seconds for the 1/4 mile - and I could tow a trailer full of batteries to get 100 miles range -my first guess for that would be three Chevy Volt packs - 54 kWh and 540 kg - a Tesla pack would be lighter for the same energy stored ~ 400 kg
The trailer would be used for your tools and tyres
Run the car from the trailer - leave the on board pack for the events
You could even leave the trailer charging somewhere while you drive to the event


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

brian_ said:


> The obvious solution, even if it is not desired, is a series hybrid configuration with an engine and generator in the trailer


No no no, the obvious undesireable solution is to have a truck tow you in circles for 20 minutes when you get to the track:






Actually, right at the start of the video he says the local EV dragracers pressured the track owners to install a Level 2 charger at the track. Though, that's still more of an overnight recharge or a limp home for locals kind of thing. Also, that was in Canada, and, it was 5 years ago now. So, as Remy said, a little EV activism and nagging does seem to do the trick.


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## UglyCarFan (8 mo ago)

This is really fascinating. The options are endless. I agree with Remy is some regards, but I disagree that a trailer is disadvantageous. Think outside of the box, and build an off road capable trailer with a cool suspension. I've got friends who took single wheel trailers to the ends of the Earth behind BMW's. Do a very light aerodynamic design, and the vehicle won't even know it is back there other than just the weight. Do it all in aluminum, and the net weight result might be negligible.

Or, if using a Dakota or similar, design a cradle system to hold what-ever you are hauling that is extra weight, and lift it off of the truck bed onto the ground before your runs. Google "combo bin dumpers" for inspiration. Or do an Air Force inspired roll off......

I have to stop. This is starting to sound dangerously fun...


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

I saw a few Rocky Mountain Race Week cars driving around town last week! Cool project. I live only a couple miles from Bandimere so I can hear them all day and night

What is the maximum distance between tracks that you anticipate driving? That's going to determine the rest of the specs. Just reading your original post you ask if someone has built a 12-13 second budget EV like a Leaf. Well our very own @Dala has done that. He took an early LEAF and upgraded the inverter to 200hp, added wheels and tires etc. See the thread here: Extracting more power from Nissan LEAF motors

I'm betting with some weight reduction that is a 13 second car easy, maybe even 12.

Battery swaps in a LEAF is possible within 20 minutes in a parking lot if you have two guys and practice.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

EVs should be very consistent run after run but as the voltage drops it may slow down slightly. Luckily density altitude, temperature, humidity etc all the things that affect an ICE will not affect the EV. Also no shifting to screw up.


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## DumpsterBaby (7 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> I saw a few Rocky Mountain Race Week cars driving around town last week! Cool project. I live only a couple miles from Bandimere so I can hear them all day and night
> 
> What is the maximum distance between tracks that you anticipate driving? That's going to determine the rest of the specs. Just reading your original post you ask if someone has built a 12-13 second budget EV like a Leaf. Well our very own @Dala has done that. He took an early LEAF and upgraded the inverter to 200hp, added wheels and tires etc. See the thread here: Extracting more power from Nissan LEAF motors
> 
> ...


That's awesome! I moved last year from Morrison. I love that area!

The most I've seen in one event is 300 miles, but that was for a driving only day. Most usually top out in the low 200s. The local ones are much shorter maybe 60-90 miles, which I'm hoping to do as a stress test. 

An upgraded Nissan Leaf seems like a good starting point for a swap. It'll be interesting to see what that setup could be pushed to.


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## DumpsterBaby (7 mo ago)

UglyCarFan said:


> This is really fascinating. The options are endless. I agree with Remy is some regards, but I disagree that a trailer is disadvantageous. Think outside of the box, and build an off road capable trailer with a cool suspension. I've got friends who took single wheel trailers to the ends of the Earth behind BMW's. Do a very light aerodynamic design, and the vehicle won't even know it is back there other than just the weight. Do it all in aluminum, and the net weight result might be negligible.
> 
> Or, if using a Dakota or similar, design a cradle system to hold what-ever you are hauling that is extra weight, and lift it off of the truck bed onto the ground before your runs. Google "combo bin dumpers" for inspiration. Or do an Air Force inspired roll off......
> 
> I have to stop. This is starting to sound dangerously fun...


A removable bed would be pretty interesting. I've seen a flat bed electric dakota and was thinking that may be a good route if I don't need to carry much in the back.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Re- battery swaps
Should not be needed - my car has a small battery - 14 kWh and that is enough for a full day at the drag races using maybe 30%

Track events are a bit more strenuous - I did a sprint a while ago - OK for the whole event BUT if I had been a fraction faster then I would have been eligible for the top ten shootout 
And I did not have enough battery left for that


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## MarkDoronin (8 mo ago)

yes, it is difficult to imagine such a theory unambiguously, but really, nothing is impossible. This video is proof of that! I hope to see your result soon


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