# Living with an EV



## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Gidday all, time for an official update on the Tredia and what it's been like to own for the past couple of months.

Let's kick off with a nice picture. See if you can spot the odd one out.








One of those cars doesn't use gas. Can you pick it? 
Hehehe

Anyway, things have been going well. Apart from the odd creaking noise here and there, nothing noticeable has happened to the car other than 800 reliable, comfortable gas-free kilometres of travel. That's 500 miles without a single drop of gas. 

We're still putting $40 a week into our "Unspent Gas Money" jar: It's what we used to spend on gas each week.








It's got almost $300 in it now, and that's all money we used to throw away too.
Anyone got any suggestions on what to do with it? 

While generally things have been brilliant, there's one area of the EV that hasn't been much fun. The charging system isn't fast enough for my liking. While it does the job perfectly for my wifes daily commute, I tend to get EV-happy during the weekend and want to drive it everywhere. Problem is, the recharging takes too long after even a short drive so it's "Put the kettle on...twice" after every drive.

Good news though, after weeks of saving and selling stuff online, I have enough to send via e-carrier pigeon to EV America and buy a shiny new Zivan 16amp onboard charger!
That should make a difference to our current 3.5 Amp setup.

I'd prefer it if I could simply upgrade each of my twelve chargers to 16amp, 12V chargers but 16amp chargers in NZ cost over $200 each, so a pack-charger at $1400 NZ is much cheaper. 
So, give it a few weeks and I'll be installing my new fast new onboard opportunity charger.
I've also been invited to the regional Sustainable Energy Expo in a couple of weeks. I'm going to put the Tredia on display and see what happens! Should be fun!

Until then, I have a video of all the latest happenings right here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-_3lA4CpTU

Cheers!
Gav


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## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

You know Gavin there is something I've been wondering about that would help you out a small amount on the charging. Why is it that you built that battery box in the back with a fan that drains the battery like that when you could have put a sheet of metal between the trunk and cab to isolate it? Those vents in the side of the tredia make it the perfect car for that because they simply already exist. Don't have to mutilate the car.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

series of wierd cheap thoughts:

Do they have cheap chinese AC or DC welders down under?? depending on the output voltage, you could get possible 25 amps output at 50 to 60 volts for about 100 USD, with the DC welder being good to go for no modifications the AC one would need a diode pack. Not sure what that much currrent will do to the battery pack you use, probably warm it up a good deal.

there is a thing called an "AUTO Transformer" that has a dial variable voltage arraingement from 0V up to 1.25 times input, which would need a diode pack also, but they are good to about 5 amps. 200 usd there


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

the slashmaster said:


> You know Gavin there is something I've been wondering about that would help you out a small amount on the charging. Why is it that you built that battery box in the back with a fan that drains the battery like that when you could have put a sheet of metal between the trunk and cab to isolate it? Those vents in the side of the tredia make it the perfect car for that because they simply already exist. Don't have to mutilate the car.


Ahhh, I did it like that due to the crazy NZ rules my friend... I must have an extraction fan running during & after charging and driving and it must use brushless fans, and it must be non-pressurised, and flame retardant, and sealed... you get the idea, NZ is the home of red tape.

I initially wanted to use those side vents for intake air & exhaust air for the battery box but they were not accessible from inside. All kinds of skin-removingly sharp metal bits are covering those vent holes.


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

Piotrsko, about what you said, that wouldn't be the ideal way to charge the batteries, it's easier to buy a powerful smart charger that will take good care of the batteries rather than build something yourself that would ruin them.

Unless your an electrical engineer then you can go ahead and do anything you want. 




> I've also been invited to the regional Sustainable Energy Expo in a couple of weeks. I'm going to put the Tredia on display and see what happens! Should be fun!


I know what you need to spend that $300 on now Gavin.

Get "*Electric Vehicle*" painted in automotive paint and a nice big font on the sides of the Tredia before you goto the Expo 

Maybe on the hood too. 

Then people would see it from far away.


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## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

I see, what if you had put the batteries where the gas tank use to be? I know it fits like that on some cars, would there be enough room on yours?


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## Redleaf (Mar 24, 2008)

Sweet license plate!


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## demolay rules (Feb 28, 2008)

I figured out what you should spend the money on! Drum roll please...

Something to the effect of:









P.S. Do all EV's have hearable PWM in their controllers?


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## BHall (Aug 1, 2007)

Hey Gav, Great video! You know you are a great inspiration, I can't get mine finished fast enough! How are those batteries holding up? Have you had to do any maintenance/filling?

I remember reading somewhere that oven cleaner works good to remove oil stains from driveways. Something like EasyOff oven cleaner is available here in the U.S. don't know if it is sold there. I will be using it on my driveway when I get that messy ICE out of that Fiero.

Brian


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi Gavin, is 16 AMP going to be enough?
I have a 20 AMP on my 72 volt pack and it takes it 9 hours or so for a full charge.
It runs fine for town driving with only a 4 hour charge.
How far do you go on weekends?


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Coley said:


> Hi Gavin, is 16 AMP going to be enough?
> I have a 20 AMP on my 72 volt pack and it takes it 9 hours or so for a full charge.
> It runs fine for town driving with only a 4 hour charge.
> How far do you go on weekends?


I think compared to 3.5 amps, 16 amps will be paradise mate! We never drive very far, lots of really short trips instead. Problem is the speed of charging.
You say your 72 volt pack takes 9 hours? As long as the car's battery pack is the same as the charger, then the voltage won't make any difference to the speed of the charge but the size of the batteries will. I have 85 A/h batteries, what have you got?


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

95 Amp Hrs. batteries.
They charge @ 14.+ volts each, toward the end.
Total pack voltage when charged is 82/86 volts, surface reading.
Goes well, when fully charged (50mph).
I have been doing the charge at night. Temps have been 20s F, at night.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Ah cool, cheers for the info. 
What I'm really after is a "quick top up" to take the voltage from 144v back up to 155v in a short time in say, 2 or 3 hours, instead of the usual 6 or 7 hours I have at present. This way I'll be able to do several trips each day instead of just 1 or 2. The big plus is that it'll be opportunistic charging too, being an "on board" charger. I'll be able to _borrow_ some electricity at the supermarket/mall etc while shopping too. Can't do that at present without mounting all 12 chargers in the car somehow.

_Borrowing_ power from big companies might be a new fun EV game too.
Ssshhhh.


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

Hey Gav, I'm wondering if you can't get individual chargers any cheaper? Maybe from the US as their dollar is real low right now? Or is the single pack charger a done deal?

If I recall correctly you are on flooded right? So I guess balancing the pack isn't that important anyway?


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## ronin4sale (Jan 29, 2008)

KiwiEV said:


> Ah cool, cheers for the info.
> What I'm really after is a "quick top up" to take the voltage from 144v back up to 155v in a short time in say, 2 or 3 hours, instead of the usual 6 or 7 hours I have at present. This way I'll be able to do several trips each day instead of just 1 or 2. The big plus is that it'll be opportunistic charging too, being an "on board" charger. I'll be able to _borrow_ some electricity at the supermarket/mall etc while shopping too. Can't do that at present without mounting all 12 chargers in the car somehow.
> 
> _Borrowing_ power from big companies might be a new fun EV game too.
> Ssshhhh.


Do commercial locations have places for you to charge down there? I would think we are hard pressed for that here in the States (unless you live in CA).


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

That gas money you're saving. Keep saving it! You'll need it when it comes time to buy a new battery pack in a few years.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

peggus said:


> That gas money you're saving. Keep saving it! You'll need it when it comes time to buy a new battery pack in a few years.


At $40 per week he should be able to get a helluva battery pack when the time comes 

$40 x 52 weeks = $2080 per year, x 3 years = $6240 and that does NOT include regular maintenance (or unexpected repairs) that the ICE would require during that time.

In another couple years LiFePo4 batteries will probably only get cheaper, your fun has just begun Gavin ...............


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

I may have been very generous when I said a few years. I'm afraid that the deep cycle marine batteries he picked won't hold up more than a year in EV service.

Deep cycle marine batteries are designed to output enough amps to start the engine and then supply the house loads, which may be in the tens of amps. In EV service they will see sustained draws of hundreds of amps.

The specs for his batteries are 105Ah, 12V, 22kg each. That puts him at 57Wh/kg nominal, compare that to the Trojan T105 which is proven to hold up well in EV service. The T105 comes in at 48Wh/kg at the 20h rate. What does that mean? Well, there is no substitute for lead when it comes to long battery life. His batteries are light weight and have high cranking capacity indicating that the lead plates are thin and will wear out, warp and fail fast under heavy loads!

Trojans have thick and heavy plates that will take a lot more abuse before they fail. 

Generally, any flooded battery that has a Cold Cranking Amps rating is a poor deep cycle battery for EV use.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

We'll just have to wait and see then won't we peggus?


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

Absolutely, time will tell. 

In the mean time, congratulations on getting your EV up and running! I'm looking forward to many more youtube videos!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Mastiff said:


> Piotrsko, about what you said, that wouldn't be the ideal way to charge the batteries, it's easier to buy a powerful smart charger that will take good care of the batteries rather than build something yourself that would ruin them.
> 
> Unless your an electrical engineer then you can go ahead and do anything you want.
> 
> ...


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

KiwiEV said:


>


That's a nice car to your right there, Gav. I was going to convert one of those, but my plans changed.  CoD of 0.337, and it only weighs around 1300-1400kg! 

And it's a Subaru


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## BjBlaster (Nov 11, 2007)

I can't believe the curtis popped! Time for a Zilla


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## MARTY (Dec 16, 2007)

Hi KIWI;
I have a couple of suggestions for your savings ....
one is save up for the next set of Batteries....
or two , put the money in savings, till you have made up the ammount that it took to buy the car and convert it...   
THANK YOU Marty


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

BjBlaster said:


> I can't believe the curtis popped! Time for a Zilla


Well, if you're going to go, why not go out with a bang (or at least a loud crackle!). 
The Curtis should be sorted out fine under warranty but it will be a delay while the car's off the road.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

That stinks that the controller kicked the bucket. Good thing it didn't lock into full throttle, or you would have really shown off that acceleration!!

Since I am building my own controller, my dad wants me to keep a spare in the trunk along with extra fuses.


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## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

MARTY said:


> Hi KIWI;
> I have a couple of suggestions for your savings ....
> one is save up for the next set of Batteries....
> or two , put the money in savings, till you have made up the ammount that it took to buy the car and convert it...
> THANK YOU Marty


Yeah I've been wondering myself why he's putting it in a jar instead of giving it back to the bank where he borrowed it from. What amazes me more is that a bank would let a person borrow money for that purpose in the first place.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

the slashmaster said:


> Yeah I've been wondering myself why he's putting it in a jar instead of giving it back to the bank where he borrowed it from. What amazes me more is that a bank would let a person borrow money for that purpose in the first place.


Well it's my money and I'll do what I like with it.


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## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey Kiwi, Didn't know you blew the Curtis. So sorry to hear about that. Hope they give you another one or a better one without any problems.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

the slashmaster said:


> Hey Kiwi, Didn't know you blew the Curtis. So sorry to hear about that. Hope they give you another one or a better one without any problems.


Ah well these things happen. It'll only take 2 minutes to replace it, it's just getting the replacement that will take a week or four. 
My new onboard charger arrived in Auckland this morning though, that's a bit of good news! At least I'll have plenty of time to install it!


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## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

KiwiEV said:


> Ah well these things happen. It'll only take 2 minutes to replace it, it's just getting the replacement that will take a week or four.
> My new onboard charger arrived in Auckland this morning though, that's a bit of good news! At least I'll have plenty of time to install it!


Did you talk to the guys at ev america yet? If so what did they say?


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

How many miles/kilometers, did you have on the car before it blew?
Sure sorry to hear about that.


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## BjBlaster (Nov 11, 2007)

Coley said:


> How many miles/kilometers, did you have on the car before it blew?
> Sure sorry to hear about that.


according to his site : 1002 Km


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

in three years time he will definitely be able to get lifepo,theyre already around $7500 for 144v pack.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Gav, don't feel too bad.
I have had 3 controllers go, one full on and 2 just went poof!!
The smoke can get scary, as you're not sure what blew, until you get the hood up!!


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

Some questions for Gav:
Do you have a pre-charge system in place? 
How did the controller die, on power up or during motoring?


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