# Arctic Sea Ice 'Death Spiral' Continues



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Won't venture into chit-chat territory, will only point out that the level of what he terms "old ice" is defined only as nine years old or older. Wasn't really that much to start with in the video, may have been leftover from the little ice age or may have been a thaw between the little ice age and the beginning of the video - no way to tell. 

While dramatic, I hardly think that using 9 year old ice as an indicator of decades long changes is valid...


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

that was 9 years or older.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> that was 9 years or older.


Yes, but if you watch the video it's pretty clear that as far back as the beginning of the film the stuff dissolved and re-formed continuously. Back before the beginning of the film you start approaching the Little Ice Age, so the entire thing is relatively meaningless from an information standpoint. 

It is only meaningful (sensationalistic) from an emotional standpoint - in other words, meaningless from a scientific standpoint...


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

So the ice melts every year or so. How did they get 100,000 year ice cores.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> So the ice melts every year or so. How did they get 100,000 year ice cores.


By pulling samples from over land masses such as Greenland.

The Arctic free-floating ice can be thought of as a milk shake in a blender - sooner or later, all parts of it liquify.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I was thinking it was a cap of very old ice which it probably was, but we have only been taking measurements since 1979. The thickest ice was over 30' , the old average 7' new 6' and falling . We are heading to more open water and more solar gain .


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> I was thinking it was a cap of very old ice which it probably was, but we have only been taking measurements since 1979. The thickest ice was over 30' , the old average 7' new 6' and falling . We are heading to more open water and more solar gain .


Exactly. I would have thought the same thing too if I didn't remember articles showing no free ocean ice at the North Pole in the 1960s. That was my point about the article - they were suggesting that diminishing free sea ice over a 15 year period = Global Warming, but it has happened in the past since the little ice age so all it "proves" is that it makes a very dramatic video.

I don't care for misleading melodrama, no matter who is holding the curtain or what they are trying to suggest.


----------

