# My Sad Scooter Story



## subliminelle (May 26, 2012)

http://myfirstelectricmoped.blogspot.com/


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## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

Wow, what a disappointing experience. Definitely noted to avoid Voisen Motors.

What are your plans for it?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

OMG Elsa you are SO emotional 
take a few logic pills and chill out. 
this is why women and machines dont gel.

Have to admit even as a mechanic I found that noise was weird.
It was a mechanical noise but there are virtually no moving parts in an electric bike and nothing to come loose.
I was thinking loose magnet or motor stator but it turned out ok.
Maybe loose battery cables arcing or the hubs torque lever has come loose.

but golden rule of mechanical diagnostics is never guess or predict.
Always dismantle and inspect. get those yellow panels off and let your ears take you to the problem. Dont just start replacing parts.
Some people say Motor Mechanics is easy, just replace the part
but which part ? Motor Mechanics IS easy Diagnostics is hard.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

A cheap stethoscope from Harbor Freight helps to diagnose mechanical noises. Good luck.

It sounds like a loose motor to me. Did you post on http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10

They do a lot of scooters.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

At first I thought it might be a stripped spline on the axel shaft but after reading the blog again if I got it right they were riding double when the scooter gave out. I think they over loaded the weight capacity of the scooter and most likely lugged the motor with the extra weight thus over heating it and wrecking the windings. I have seen motors that have been over taxed to the point they stop working and make that type of noise.


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## orfansin (Jun 13, 2012)

Oh i am really sorry about your bad experience ..thanks for giving us advice we have to keep that mind that accidents are not good ..


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## reubenT (Jun 17, 2009)

I do not like it when people do not stand behind what they sell, terrible position to be in for them even if they don't realize it. 
I wish I was close enough to do something, but I'm just a few too many miles east of ya. (like maybe 2000) I specialize in unfixable junk. I've fixed a lot of things "they say can't be fixed" Anything can be done if ya got the tools and a little inventiveness. The noise I hear in the video sounds like either electrical noise from killed motor, (a power tool that has shorted windings might sound similar) or stripped gears if it's a gear reduction drive. having never messed with hub motors I don't know how they're made.
My best idea would be to take it to that guy who worked out of his garage and see if he thinks it's worth fixing. Problem is most people have to make money for their time and many times it takes more time to fix something that it's worth. I've done a lot of fixes that weren't worth the time, just because I'd rather fix stuff than work for money.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It was interesting to read the blog about the initial failure, and then the "comedy of errors" that seemed to constitute the remainder of the story. I can sympathize, to a point, but I have always had the confidence and determination to understand and fix anything that has failed. I've always had a good ability to analyze, troubleshoot, and fix almost anything of an electrical or mechanical nature, and my father was the same way. So I have rarely enlisted the help of auto mechanics, electricians, plumbers, or other professionals. And many times, when I have trusted my vehicle to a mechanic, I was astounded by their incompetence. 

I would love to tackle a job like this. It is in my engineer's blood to seek out problems and find solutions. Sometimes I've had to learn new techniques and tools and do research to understand what I'm dealing with. But I look at such experiences as challenges and opportunities to learn and expand my skills and knowledge. "Things" have never posed an insurmountable problem for me.

But dealing with people, and emotions, are much more difficult for me. I see the world differently from those who get excited or sad or frustrated or angry, especially when it involves technology. So I have a hard time relating to the emotional content of the blog, and the series of bad decisions and incorrect assessments that were the product of very poor understanding of how things work (and break), on a very basic level.

I wish I were closer to San Diego, or able to visit there again. I've been there many times, and I have always stayed in Ocean Beach. I can't imagine that there are no competent mechanics who could determine the problem with this e-bike. It is almost certainly a mechanical problem, although after the electrical mishaps there are probably also problems in that area. I'm also surprised that there was no warranty. Even without an express warranty, there is generally an implied warranty on sales of this type that should allow some legal remedy.

Maybe what bothered me most was the "victim" attitude and the signs of clinical depression and lack of self-esteem. I have known other people who have expressed the idea that anything bad that has happened to them must be somebody's fault, and instead of addressing that issue, they adopt a defeatist attitude. It was especially noticeable where the E-bike owner expected failure, and was rewarded by having it happen.

JMHO...


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't give up! there is hope out there. I am dealing with a similar problem with one of my vehicles, electrical is a bear, but don't let it get you down.


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## Whitehawk (Apr 12, 2012)

Hey, even men cry when their toys break, but its more internally crying with no physical emotion. People at work may ask, are you okay, or your gf/wife may feel like they did something wrong or feel like you're having an affair with another woman, because you're staying late at work googling forums and constantly staring at nothing, thinking deeply about the broken toy.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Wife’s diary; My husband has been moody the last several days. I don’t know what is wrong. I think there might be another woman and he is getting ready to tell me he is leaving me. I do not know what I did wrong. I made love to him last night and he said nothing. He just rolled over and went to sleep. I cried. *** Husband’s diary; Boat won’t start. Got laid.


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## Whitehawk (Apr 12, 2012)

dragonsgate said:


> Wife’s diary; My husband has been moody the last several days. I don’t know what is wrong. I think there might be another woman and he is getting ready to tell me he is leaving me. I do not know what I did wrong. I made love to him last night and he said nothing. He just rolled over and went to sleep. I cried. *** Husband’s diary; Boat won’t start. Got laid.


Thats the one


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## reubenT (Jun 17, 2009)

That's it, I don't get emotional over failures or breakdowns, I just get silent as I think deeply, searching for a solution, going over all the mechanical and electrical processes mentally and trying to determine at what point the problem lies. But an older woman neighbor that comes by frequently to help in the garden and such, sees me sitting silent, slow to respond, and asks, "are you mad at at me?" She seems to always be thinking on an emotional level and I'm just about always thinking on a logical mechanical level. 
My mother tells me as a child I was always asking about machines, "how it werk?" and pushing cars around in the dirt making motor noises. While my sister played with dolls. When I got a bit older I started taking things apart to find out how they worked. And sometimes fix em when they didn't. Quickly moved into building simple DC brush motors and electronic stuff, got into ham radio. And so on. My last big electrical project was fixing a USelectricar and then selling it. I have a forklift motor powered subaru ready to run. I'm just waiting on myself to invent a practical power system to run it on.
Mechanical and electrical problems help develop a person's patience, which is not a bad thing in itself.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

I always liked mechanical things and was always taking things apart. When I was real young (like two) I would take an old discarded iron apart and when my dad came home from work he would help me put back together again. I also liked to play with dolls. I still work on cars and such and I have made a very good living making miniatures and doll related items. So I guess I have a kick your ass masculine side an emotional feminine side. So when something breaks or stops working the feminine side gets upset and the masculine side throws tools. After I calm down I pick up the tools and repair anything else that might have inadvertently gotten broken I then humbly repair the item that the fuss was all about in the first place. Now about this scooter. I can’t chastise the young lady for getting a little upset but I must ask why share so much of it with strangers? I started thinking maybe this letter was coming from Nigeria. I mean I am very sincerely sorry to here about the miscarriage but what does it have to do with a broken scooter? There have been a couple of replies on this thread that hinted at the desire to dig in to the problem if it was not for the distance between them and the project. This being said there are a lot of ev enthusiasts in San Diego. I would think the young lady could find one that was willing to fix or help to fix the scooter for a nominal fee or possibly nothing. So far all we have seen is a blog and no follow up posts. If this young lady is even checking to see what is said here then my advice is pick up the tools and figure out how to fix the scooter yourself or find someone to help you fix it or to fix it for you. If not then sell it for the best price you can get and treat this as one of life’s many lessons.


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## Farcry (Jun 26, 2012)

I have the same scooter!
I have no idea who made these things - i have one the same, and another that is 48v and (said to be) 500w.

As yet i dont have this same problem, so im afraid i cant help - but unless ive over looked some of the text : with the controller in the shop, was it load tested? i.e, did you have it spinning with some restricting force on it?
if not, then it may still be the motor, it may be mechanical, some teeth on the axle may have been striped - causing it to crunch, and even jam in places, needing a help to get spinning again, and spin fine with nothing mechanical acting on it.

but its what you get out of china, my one is rusting faster then....well faster than i can go on the bike!

can someone please tell me thow - these hub motors are brushless for sure? and is that why the three conductors to the motor are so small?
500w = 50v x 10A and therefor each conductor only 3amps?
i mean they just seem so small!!!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If it is three phase, 500W, 48V, the current in each phase would be 10/sqrt(3) = 5.77A. At least that's what it would be for 48 VAC. #18 AWG should be enough, and even #20 might be OK, especially if the wires are exposed and the insulation can handle a higher temperature.

This "sad scooter story" disturbed me on several levels. It's true that most Chinese products seem to have one or two "fatal flaws" that may be relatively minor, but inevitably they are weak links and cause the item not to work. I have an air compressor that works fine except the check valve was poorly designed with a soft plastic part that deformed and it won't hold pressure. A replacement part would have been about $20 and likely would have been the same faulty design. I could not find a standard replacement valve that would fit, and they were over $50, while the entire compressor was less than $100. 

Portable drills where the battery dies after six months. A 12V battery powered lamp with a cheap connector that melted and shorted. A very nice, sharp, stainless steel steak knife with a cheap plasic handle that broke. Etc... 

But what also disturbed me was the defeatist, victim attitude of the OP, and also the chain of stupid mistakes and incompetence of some of the people involved in the attempted repair, and probably more serious damage. So many things really just require common sense and logic and a basic comprehension of mechanical and electrical principles. But we see less emphasis on such skills in schools, and most kids don't seem to tinker with things anymore, partly because things like cell phones and iPads and TVs and computers are not really designed to be serviced. Probably the same even with scooters!


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## Farcry (Jun 26, 2012)

That would make sence.....18Awg is about 0.8mm2, rule of thumb 1amp per 0.1mm2..... but if it was DC....do you think there would be a lot of loss in such a small conductor/s?

I know what you mean, they let themselves down - i good product gone bad because of one small component, or lack of effort in production.


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## Farcry (Jun 26, 2012)

AN UPDATE

this scooter runs on a 72vDC pack (found this out, because the battery inter-cation died.
the scooter has a relay that when de-energised leaves the 6 batteries in two strings of three, to charge at 32vDC

while at it, my friend and I put our meter across the outputs (green, yellow, and blue) and found upto 70vAC between phases,
and a changing frequency upto 1khz

I hope this will help someone in the future,

Right now, i hope this means for me that something is wrong, as i can only get 25mph from it.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can't get 70 VAC from a 72 VDC battery without a transformer or booster. With a 50% square wave it's still only 50 VRMS. You probably do not have a true-RMS meter. And the really cheap ones, like those with only 200V and 750V AC ranges, use a simple series diode and if there is any DC component or anything other than a good sine wave, the reading is really meaningless. 

A 500 watt scooter may not really be able to go faster than 25 MPH, especially if it's a cheap one and other factors may affect efficiency. You might want to get a power analyzer. I just ordered one that was only $24:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html

It's only supposed to be used up to 60V but you can probably go to 72 V with external power. Of course this will only tell you the power into the motor, and not the power out.


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