# AC motor size answer



## SparkyJay (Aug 5, 2009)

Ok I have been interested in doing EV's for a while now, but time and money and space have all been issues. Latly good fortune has smiled on me in this department. My fathers 1972 Volkswagon bettle which has been long dead because of a bad engine is now mine to convert if i wish. The local paper mill shut down and is auctioning off the industrial assets inside, among them a stock of AC three phase motors, 230v/440v Three phase, in many differnt Horse powers from 2 - 200hp. I have heard good things about 3 phase motors for electric cars and also have heard about there expence. The motors from the mill are all in working order and are being sold for, as the auction flyer puts it, "Pennies on the dallor". 

I am simply wondering what size motor i should look at buying, I can never get a stright answer from anybody on this. I have seen 100KW, 200KW, and 50KW. I dont want a drag racer, i want a neat project car which can get me back and fourth to college and work, while I live at home. 

I look high and low on this site, and found nothing in the way of motor size except in diamater, and that dosent help me much because because i only have a flyer of what is up for acution which gives the motor specs in horse power, dont even know if its peak or nominal HP. I am not even sure you can use this type of 3 phase drive motor. Thanks for any of your help

John


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Industrial motors tend to be big and heavy for ev use. 

I'd stick with 230v motors, and find something you think would fit in the bug. I think a 15-20 horse would be physically about right, not sure if it will produce enough power for you though, even running 2x current.




SparkyJay said:


> Ok I have been interested in doing EV's for a while now, but time and money and space have all been issues. Latly good fortune has smiled on me in this department. My fathers 1972 Volkswagon bettle which has been long dead because of a bad engine is now mine to convert if i wish. The local paper mill shut down and is auctioning off the industrial assets inside, among them a stock of AC three phase motors, 230v/440v Three phase, in many differnt Horse powers from 2 - 200hp. I have heard good things about 3 phase motors for electric cars and also have heard about there expence. The motors from the mill are all in working order and are being sold for, as the auction flyer puts it, "Pennies on the dallor".
> 
> I am simply wondering what size motor i should look at buying, I can never get a stright answer from anybody on this. I have seen 100KW, 200KW, and 50KW. I dont want a drag racer, i want a neat project car which can get me back and fourth to college and work, while I live at home.
> 
> ...


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

the biggest issue you'll have is finding a controller that will work with the motor you chose. Most controllers/motors I've seen happen to be matched packages. You might not get any support if you use an off the shelf type industrial motor.

Just something to consider, thats all. If its cheap, its worth getting one though.


----------



## SparkyJay (Aug 5, 2009)

MANUFACTURER: INGERSOLL RAND
PART #: 32036469
FRAME: 284T
VOLTS: 230/460 / 190/380
AMPS: 61.0/30.5 / 59.8/29.9
HP: 25/20
3-PH
RPM: 1760/1470
ENCL: ODP
TYPE: DP
PF: 0.83/0.83
IIP23
SF: 1.15
INS CL: F
CODE: G
HZ: 50/60
NEMA NOM EFF: 91.7/91.7%
3/4 LOAD EFF: 91.6/91.6%
DUTY: CONT
SHAFT DIAMETER: ~1.874"
DES: B
01/00 AU59407
6311-Z-C3 LITHIUM BASE
6211-Z-C3 20g 19000h
WEIGHT: 293 LBS.
Hows this sound, I know its heavy, but it would fit in the car. Oddly enough it wold weight about as much as the old engine. looks nerely perfect, but i also understand what your saying which you say power control would be a nightmere. Thankx

John


----------



## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

SparkyJay said:


> Oddly enough it wold weight about as much as the old engine. l
> John



At 293 pounds, that's more than twice the weight of the original engine.
I know, I changed enough of them.

Eric


----------



## Morf (May 29, 2009)

How about a Toyota Tow Tractor 80 Volt, 3 phase motor marked with AC Propulsion`s logo. The total of information that can be learned from the spec sheet is that it has 22.3 hp, no listed rpm, no listed stall torque, no listed weight. 
Toyota has the same motor in a 45 series forklift sold in Europe within a series of small to large forklifts that all carry `a` logo also, with standard Roman letters ~AC~ followed with the math squared sign of a small elevated 2 . However a knowledgeable researcher says the European fork lift motor `45` and the Tow Tractor`s motor are the same. All the motors in this European series are labeled as AC squared. Has AC Propulsion quietly gone into the making of fork lift motors? And will they be what we think of as an AC Propulsion motor, or someone else`s motor retaged? 
My researcher sent an exploded motor diagram of this motor along with a price ~$++. Is this the Rolex of modest sized motors? Can I display the exploded view of this motor that I finally acquired, onto DIY? I am seeking a motor specialist who could tell me if he sees ACP trademark quality from a view. The motor uses vise bolts to bring the end caps up snug. I don`t recall seeing that before. I will be looking for a way to properly display this image. Wish I had a motor tag.


----------



## samborambo (Aug 27, 2008)

SparkyJay said:


> MANUFACTURER: INGERSOLL RAND
> PART #: 32036469
> FRAME: 284T
> VOLTS: 230/460 / 190/380
> ...


John, I've recently updated the "AC Motor Selection" wiki page to include some ABB industrial 3 phase induction motors. This should give you an idea of the size motor you'll need.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61212#post61212

Sam.


----------



## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

hey john, i'm in youre boat. I have a baldor industrial 30hp motor i want to use. its just shy of 300 lbs and controller issues are driving me nuts! i did find a site on how to reduce the voltage by disecting the coils, but it looks like it'll only work on some motors. check this site out.
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1237


----------



## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Are those motors synchronous or asynchronous?


----------



## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

i believe sync


----------



## samborambo (Aug 27, 2008)

few2many said:


> i believe sync


Asynchronous induction motors. Synchronous motors have some form of static rotor excitation, eg: permanent magnets or a DC current fed through slip rings.


----------



## scarab (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi 
tell me Ive seen mentions that a generator is the same as an AC motor if this is the case what size?
There are quite a few 2nd hand skid mounted generators for sale but not AC motors.

Any suggestions please.


----------



## samborambo (Aug 27, 2008)

scarab said:


> Hi
> tell me Ive seen mentions that a generator is the same as an AC motor if this is the case what size?
> There are quite a few 2nd hand skid mounted generators for sale but not AC motors.
> 
> Any suggestions please.


Generators are almost always self exciting - meaning they have either permanent magnets on the rotor or a wound rotor with slip rings to feed a DC current to set up the magnetic field. These are called permanent magnet synchronous machines (PMSM, BLDC) or "slip ring" / "wound rotor" machines. Slip ring motors can also mean induction machines that have the rotor winding brought out for the purpose of applying a higher resistance to the winding to reduce pull-up torque on DOL systems. Once the rotor is up to speed the slip ring rotor circuit is shorted together to provide full rated torque. It's the same design but just using the slip ring circuit to create a higher impedance rotor circuit instead of injecting a DC current. Induction machines set up the magnetic field by inducing a current in the rotor "squirrel cage".

You can use PMSM/BLDC motors with AC drives if they support synchronous motors. Theoretically, you can also use wound rotor / slip ring machines as synchronous machines if you inject the appropriate DC current on the slip rings or as an induction machine if you short the slip rings together.

Check out the wikipedia page on AC motors.

Sam.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Morf said:


> Toyota has the same motor in a 45 series forklift sold in Europe within a series of small to large forklifts that all carry `a` logo also, with standard Roman letters ~AC~ followed with the math squared sign of a small elevated 2 .


I don't think that's the same AC Propulsion, I've never heard of them making any other motor than their one ACP 150, and I don't see a "2" in their logo.
http://www.acpropulsion.com/


----------

