# Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*



> brucedp5 wrote:
> > Drozd now adds his name to a list of Leaf owners claiming, in some cases,
> > 30-50 percent charge holding capacity loss for their still relatively new
> > cars.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*

Good points, but there's no backing out of it quietly.

Just like the Roadster bricking issues, if it really is an isolated issue
they would be much better off just replacing a few battery packs than
letting it build till it hits mainstream media. If they cling to the
warranty fine print, which Jack R said applies to battery failure, not
capacity loss, they'll only hurt their reputation and risk destroying this
new market entirely.



--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-An-Early-Autumn-For-A-Texas-Leaf-Pack-tp4657003p4657011.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*

Big Oil couldn't have planned it better.




> Voltswagon <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Good points, but there's no backing out of it quietly.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*



> On 7 Aug 2012 at 10:55, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > If the Leafs indeed have early battery failures, and Nissan fails to cover
> > them under warranty, then EV hobbyists may have a new opportunity to pick
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*

I am pretty sure the LEAFs use LiNiMnO2. The heat sensitivity of this
chemistry is my bet on for the explanation of the failures, but I may
be jumping the gun there. Nissan would certainly agree that until the
engineering investigation of the capacity issue is concluded, it may
be that these cases are a result of defects in specific cells or
series of cells that made them more susceptible to heat. In each of
the cases I've read, these were daily drivers and use a substantial
percentage of capacity to complete the commute, so that is a factor,
as well.

For what it's worth, I agree that it is important that Nissan go
beyond the terms of their warranty to address the consumer concerns.

Beyond that, I hope that they aren't too tightly wedded to this
chemistry. The next model year is supposed to get a boost in range,
but it isn't clear how much of that is due to a tweak to the cell
design (chemistry/separators/etc) or if it is more due to relaxing the
software limitations of their BMS to use more of the available
capacity.



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 7 Aug 2012 at 10:55, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >> If the Leafs indeed have early battery failures, and Nissan fails to cover
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*



> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > If the Leafs indeed have early battery failures, and Nissan fails to
> > cover them under warranty, then EV hobbyists may have a new opportunity
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*

Let's see... They used a heat-sensitive battery chemistry and skimped on
cooling. Does that make any sense? It's spelled LiFePO4. Didn't they
get the memo?



> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:55:29AM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*

I'm sorry but you are talking nonsense. And as for your next post, you appear to think that the energy required to keep a modern mobile phone's processor and at least 3 transceivers going for a week comes out of thin air? 

There is plenty of evidence from Leaf owners that it can - under no-extreme circumstances - do considerably more than 70 miles to a charge. Yes, there is an issue, IMO, with Nissan's decision not to put thermal management on the Leafs pack and one they need to address quickly and definitively rather than fanny about but for most 'normal' environments it is still a very capable production EV.

Making such seeping comments as "LiON has no staying power" without (plainly) having had any personal experience is just very silly.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



> anthony c wrote:
> 
> > LiON has no staying power...look at cell phone batteries...NiMH, Bueller, Bueller, Bueller?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*



> On 7 Aug 2012 at 15:50, anthony c wrote:
> 
> > NiMH...it WORKS...moves my landlording supplies all over, I charge at
> > my rentals....
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EVLN: An Early Autumn For A Texas Leaf Pack*



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > NiCd is nearly as good as NiMH, but it's out of fashion. It's also been
> > decreed too hazardous by the EU, thanks mainly to the carelessness of
> ...


----------

