# is 11" TOO big for little car?



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> ...debating whether to go for a Warp11 or Warp9 in project after next; its a '62 Sunbeam Alpine. RWD, about 2200# stock. Already know I'll have to ditch the stock tranny, probably installing a T5. I'd like to not have to deal with the rear diff and axle if I can help it....
> 
> So, whats the gut feel out there.... will an 11" twist the back end off the car? I don't intend to race the car, but I would like to get some fun performance at stoplights!
> 
> Space MIGHT be an issue with the 11 which I cannot answer right now since I don't have the car delivered yet. I know there is a front crossmember that supports the whole front end, but I can't remember how much room there is between the bell housing and where the xmember might interfere with the motor. Alsonot quite sure about the diameter of an 11" which might start bumping into frame rails without major chopping...


From my design view an 11" is just right  especially if you are already upgrading the transmission. Best bet would be to get the car and measure though, a warp11 is 11.45" in diameter. On the other hand Jack R's speedster is probably in the same league as far as size and weight goes as your Sunbeam. He got 277ft-lbs (seems a bit high but dyno measured) out of a warp9 @ 1000A. There's also the fact that there's a warp11 in the for sale section right now!!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

rwaudio said:


> There's also the fact that there's a warp11 in the for sale section right now!!


I know.... its killing me that I don't have the donor in my hands, so I can't eyeball the space. I'd like to think I can get 'plenty' out of a Warp9 with a good controller, and save a whole lot of space and weight, and still have plenty of fun...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Dan,

Unless you plan on drag racing type performance, the 9" should be lots. Maybe a better way to ask is what battery and controller do you plan to use?

Gary


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't think I should be allowed to reply to this thread!


Seriously though, I think it should come down to physical size and weight differences. It may have enough torque to do damage if not used carefully but then you just have to use it carefully.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Dan,
> 
> Unless you plan on drag racing type performance, the 9" should be lots. Maybe a better way to ask is what battery and controller do you plan to use?
> 
> Gary


I really don't need that much range, so would plan on 144v-100aha most likely with a Soliton Jr.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I really don't need that much range, so would plan on 144v-100aha most likely with a Soliton Jr.


So, LiFePo4 prismatics? and with a Soliton Jr. there is little sense to carry the extra weight around. Just go with the 9". It's not like you are going to torture the 9" inch with 5 or 6 hundred amps. If u don't like the accel, just lower the rear diff gear.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

What does the phrase "too big" mean?!   As much as it pains me to say this, a Warp 9 seems like plenty in a small car with a transmission.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

It's also a function of your controller. Are you planning to run a Zilla 2k?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

My tuppence worth,

The back axle torque is limited by the tires - unless you are going to get wide sticky rubber the motor won't break your axle

Even a powerful motor should be easier on the back end than an IC engine as you won't be revving it up and dumping the clutch

I have an 11 inch and my target weight is 550Kg - but that is because it was the best motor at the fork lift place when I went there - in the ideal world I would probably want a 9 inch


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

In my opinion . . . 

*Anything Worth Doing Is Worth Overdoing*

Of course my judgement may be warped, look at my own overdoing. A 13 inch GE in a 1350 pound tractor with a 175 volt battery to go 300 feet.

Go with the 11, you may start out breaking things, but when you are done you will *Fear No Vehicle*, and think of the *HUGE* EV grin each time you take it out.

Never mind the bragging rights.

Everybody should be top dog at least once.

Finally if it doesn't work out you can always go smaller later.

Jim


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> In my opinion . . .
> 
> *Anything Worth Doing Is Worth Overdoing*
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better. As an ex-fighter jock, I can state with authority that there is no such thing as too much acceleration!

What's the right size? Whatever you can afford within your budget, plus 50% that you put on your credit card and will figure out how to pay for later...


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

http://www.ohler.com/ev/spyder/history.html

4th image down on the right is a quick flick test run of this Porsche 550 Spyder with a Kostov 11" motor and dual controllers. Small, light weight, fun and quick for a nice street car. 

If you have the room and you have the motor or can get one for a reasonable price then go with the 11" or you can have a load of fun with a 9" too. Remember that the Warp11 in the ad is not the HV Warp that I am aware of. It is not modified like the new Warp11 motors. You might just be better off with the NEW Warp9. Dyno proven and loads of torque with 1000 amps and lots of voltage. 

Pete


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

> *is 11" TOO big for little car*


Yes! Especially when you compare Warp 11 and Warp 9.

Remember, the W11 is an heavy chunk of copper and steel build to produce high torque at low speed.
The W9 is lighter and build to produce good torque at "regular" speed.

So, with same V and A, both motor will have similar peak HP!

But buy a W11 HV or a Kostov 11" and run it at 288v to have incredible power/weight ratio... It's my suggestion!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

as an ex-Tiger owner, I would dearly love to drop in the 11",and have torque comparable in an electric Alpine! 

What I am afraid of is the front crossmember supporting the front suspension might be too close and stick up too far to allow the 6" vertical clearance needed from the centerline of the transmission input shaft. My car is still in a different state, so I have no way to measure.... so I hesitate to buy an 11" until I have the car, and have the ICE out so I can measure for sure...

I can probably get 'plenty' of torque out of a new Warp9 if I am willing to over-amp it a little once in a while. ;0


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> In my opinion . . .
> 
> *Anything Worth Doing Is Worth Overdoing*
> 
> ...


Well, I reduced down from a 12" to an 11".


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> I can probably get 'plenty' of torque out of a new Warp9 if I am willing to over-amp it a little once in a while. ;0


Plenty!! Yes, a lot more than what your tire can transmit to the ground after the transmission has increase the torque!
Please don't buy a Warp11 to build a sporty car!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Well, I reduced down from a 12" to an 11".


Woody,

You don't count here, you were forced to by a bad machining job.

Otherwise I suspect that 12 inch would still be sitting in the place of honor.

Jim


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I really don't need that much range, so would plan on *144v-100aha most likely with a Soliton Jr.*


With this set up. . there is not really any advantage to using the 11" motor. Just extra weight. The 9" motor can handle everything this combination can dish out. Couple advantages to the 9" actually with weight and rpm. 
what rear ratio do you have?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

I might argue that the smaller controller is better off with a larger motor. The larger motor will give more torque than the smaller at 500 Amps.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I might argue that the smaller controller is better off with a larger motor. The larger motor will give more torque than the smaller at 500 Amps.


Wait a minute!!!!!!!

Choice 1: W11 (2800$) + Soliton Jr (2000$) = 4800$
Choice 2: W9 (1800$) + Soliton 1 (3000$) = 4800$

Choice 2 = Same price, more torque, more power, less weight than with the choice 1.
And anyway, with a good ratio, W9 + SJr can give same peak power than W11 + SJr.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I might argue that the smaller controller is better off with a larger motor. The larger motor will give more torque than the smaller at 500 Amps.


True, but at the same Wattage, the power is the same, it's just a gear change to get the same torque to the wheels. 
If you were pushing to current levels that the 9" couldn't handle perhaps.... but this isn't the case.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Good points. A couple of further cautionary thoughts: A heavy car is more likely to break something -- which often happens after a car gets loaded up with batteries. Also, if you suddenly take up the slack in the drivetrain you can break something, so experienced EV drag racers gently take up the slack before hammering it.


Duncan said:


> My tuppence worth,
> 
> The back axle torque is limited by the tires - unless you are going to get wide sticky rubber the motor won't break your axle
> 
> ...


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