# Michael Pethel's New Netgain Racing Motors!



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*My buddy Mike, just sent me the pics! Count the brushes!*


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Are those stock netgain motors? I thought they were all red.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

somanywelps said:


> Are those stock netgain motors? I thought they were all red.


*Them babies ain't stock!* 
*They do have a Warp Sticker on them!

I have the same design coming in an 11" version! 
*


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

and what the deal with black color?


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> *Them babies ain't stock!*
> *They do have a Warp Sticker on them!
> 
> I have the same design coming in an 11" version!
> *


So tell me what the difference is? 

What are the specs?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

somanywelps said:


> So tell me what the difference is?
> 
> What are the specs?


I'm sorry guys, I can only release this motor can handle 450 volts and 3000 amps. This motor was built with the expertise from Tom (Helwig Carbon), George (Netgain) and $$$$$ from Mike Pethel. There are modifications which you can see (3 brushes, splined shafts) and more you cannot see. These three gentlemen spent hours, days, weeks designing these motor. There are certain "walls" that prevent DC motors from operating at these power levels, all I can say is they have found a way to overcome the past "problems" when loading a motor with these power levels. I am honored to be friends with these three gentlemen. 

Happy Racing!


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## Frank (Dec 6, 2008)

So 225 volts each (two motors in series)? 3000A is pretty hefty too! Keep us lurkers updated....


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Frank said:


> So 225 volts each (two motors in series)? 3000A is pretty hefty too! Keep us lurkers updated....


No I think he means 450V each...meaning the motor could take more voltage than what even a Shiva can deliver from a pack so powerful it doesn't sag a bit!

I believe those motors are 9 inchers...so if the new Warp9 can draw 1000A w/ 147V @ 3200rpm (Jack Rickard Dyno) then these motors at say 3X the voltage (441V) can draw 1000A @ 9,600rpm!

Per Jack's graph 1000A in the Warp9 delivered 262ftlbs output.
Lets assume that these motors are built more for rpm than torque, so lets assume 200ftlbs @ 1000A...200ftlbs @ 9,600rpm = 366hp?!


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> No I think he means 450V each...meaning the motor could take more voltage than what even a Shiva can deliver from a pack so powerful it doesn't sag a bit!


If that holds and the battery pack can handle it I start to think that there will be an upswing in the transmission market 2012...


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Qer said:


> If that holds and the battery pack can handle it I start to think that there will be an upswing in the transmission market 2012...


Or direct drive at that power level.


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## Frank (Dec 6, 2008)

Well, color me skeptical; hard to believe those numbers, although I suppose anything could handle 450 volts for a couple of milliseconds...

... although I am certainly no expert and would love to be proved wrong. If remotely true it would be a major breakthrough in brushed motor technology. I have a lot of respect for the players named above but I also respect physics. Hurry up and get them running and post some numbers Ron!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> No I think he means 450V each...meaning the motor could take more voltage than what even a Shiva can deliver from a pack so powerful it doesn't sag a bit!
> 
> I believe those motors are 9 inchers...so if the new Warp9 can draw 1000A w/ 147V @ 3200rpm (Jack Rickard Dyno) then these motors at say 3X the voltage (441V) can draw 1000A @ 9,600rpm!
> 
> ...


Correct, I was told they can handle 450 volts each. They can also hold 3000 amps. The motors were customized by Tom & George, Michael paid all the R&D for these motors. Tom spent weeks watching and testing brushes and how they contact, these are the best motors built for racing ever. I have great respect for Dennis Berube in his ability to push the limits, if he knew what these gentlemen have accomplished he would also congratulate both. 

You will not find these motors available in Netgain's production line, they were custom made for Mike, and cost big $$$$$$$.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Frank said:


> Well, color me skeptical; hard to believe those numbers, although I suppose anything could handle 450 volts for a couple of milliseconds...
> 
> ... although I am certainly no expert and would love to be proved wrong. If remotely true it would be a major breakthrough in brushed motor technology. I have a lot of respect for the players named above but I also respect physics. Hurry up and get them running and post some numbers Ron!


Wrong, 450 volts for a much longer span of time. They also have a new idea how to cool these motors! They also respect physics, the history on DC motors will say the back EMF may not allow such high numbers. All I can say is be open to new ideas that WORK!


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> They also have a new idea how to cool these motors!


Tell me more.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I am just guessing but I would think they would want to keep the technology proprietary....


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## Frank (Dec 6, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Wrong, 450 volts for a much longer span of time. They also have a new idea how to cool these motors! They also respect physics, the history on DC motors will say the back EMF may not allow such high numbers. All I can say is be open to new ideas that WORK!


I am always open to new ideas and I sure hope that actual test data will validate what you've stated. No offense, but saying it works isn't the same as proving it and the numbers you're claiming are way above what is generally accepted as state-of-the-art. I would love the opportunity to buy a high-voltage DC series motor that can handle high current for more than 10-12 seconds at a time for my next project.

Are these motors destined for a race car or ??

thanks,
Frank


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Frank said:


> I am always open to new ideas and I sure hope that actual test data will validate what you've stated. No offense, but saying it works isn't the same as proving it and the numbers you're claiming are way above what is generally accepted as state-of-the-art. I would love the opportunity to buy a high-voltage DC series motor that can handle high current for more than 10-12 seconds at a time for my next project.
> 
> Are these motors destined for a race car or ??
> 
> ...


Not to take this too off-topic but I wonder what will come first, 

(a) Affordable powerful AC drive systems (DC price point)
(b) Wider range of High voltage DC motors (300V+)


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Correct, I was told they can handle 450 volts each. They can also hold 3000 amps. The motors were customized by Tom & George, Michael paid all the R&D for these motors. Tom spent weeks watching and testing brushes and how they contact, these are the best motors built for racing ever. I have great respect for Dennis Berube in his ability to push the limits, if he knew what these gentlemen have accomplished he would also congratulate both.
> 
> You will not find these motors available in Netgain's production line, they were custom made for Mike, and cost big $$$$$$$.


Correction:

These motors can handle 450 volts, but not 3000 amps the Shiva delivers. Most likely 450 volts @ 2000 amps. For more info contact Netgain Motors or Michael Pethel.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

In the past there was talk of these upcoming motors having some downsides for street use. IIRC they were going to sacrifice some low demand performance for the ability to handle ridiculous Amps and Volts? Is that still true and if so are there plans for a street version? (you know: one that just handle _Obscene_ _amounts_ of Amps and Volts instead of _Ridiculous_ _amounts_?)


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

Frank said:


> I am always open to new ideas and I sure hope that actual test data will validate what you've stated. No offense, but saying it works isn't the same as proving it and the numbers you're claiming are way above what is generally accepted as state-of-the-art. I would love the opportunity to buy a high-voltage DC series motor that can handle high current for more than 10-12 seconds at a time for my next project.
> 
> Are these motors destined for a race car or ??
> 
> ...


they not stating or claiming anything - don't put words in their mouth
they don't selling anything. they shared how far they going to push it - hopefully, it'll survive 
lets see what happens

thank you for sharing, guys - please, keep us updated


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Correction:
> 
> These motors can handle 450 volts, but not 3000 amps the Shiva delivers. Most likely 450 volts @ 2000 amps. For more info contact Netgain Motors or Michael Pethel.


on zombie they run >3000a through the 9'' bypassing zilla, at least for10 sec


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

gor said:


> on zombie they run >3000a through the 9'' bypassing zilla, at least for10 sec


LOL, I find that hard to believe with one Zilla. The only way Zombie can run 3000 amps is by adding another Zilla.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

gor said:


> on zombie they run >3000a through the 9'' bypassing zilla, at least for10 sec


The White Zombie has tried a contactor bypass in times past but it is not a part of it current record setting time.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

If you apply enough power something always breaks. If you are lucky it is records.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> LOL, I find that hard to believe with one Zilla. The only way Zombie can run 3000 amps is by adding another Zilla.


It is believed that they did go over 3000 amps with the Zilla in the Zombie at one point (not with a contactor bypass.) There was a wiring failure that defeated the current limiting in the Zombie (except desat.) You would have to look into the NEDRA list archive, back to about November 2010, to find the details because I'm not telling how.


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Quote :
> Originally Posted by *gor*
> _on zombie they run >3000a through the 9'' bypassing zilla, at least for10 sec_
> 
> ...


http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/blog/:

"- Because of a controller cabling error, we learned that Jim Husted’s Siamese 9 can handle 3000+ amps and live through it!
Some nut that changed the Zilla the week prior for reasons I will not say had reversed 2 motor leads that caused it to not current limit. ​That would be me







"

--------------

bypass or not - is not a point; point is - warp 9 can hold 3000a+ during the run


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> In the past there was talk of these upcoming motors having some downsides for street use. IIRC they were going to sacrifice some low demand performance for the ability to handle ridiculous Amps and Volts? Is that still true and if so are there plans for a street version? (you know: one that just handle _Obscene_ _amounts_ of Amps and Volts instead of _Ridiculous_ _amounts_?)


A motor with less instant extreme torque and more voltage/rpm would make for a wider more useful powerband...i just wish the HV modifications would be more available....


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Are there other factors that would make these unsuitable for street use? For instance, do brushes or other parts wear out faster?


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