# Disc Brake Caliper



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Found the issue. I have long Type III axles on my bug. It was converted to those long ago for the larger Type III Drum brake setup. The issue is that because the axle is longer my rotor was not fully seated. The axle nut bottomed out on the axle and since it was tight figured it was seated properly. Nope. Had a bit left to go. I put a temp spacer on to fully seat the rotor. All is now good except now I must drive into SAC to buy yet more parts and yet another delay in the process of building this electric Roadster. But it is still good because I got the issue resolved. 

One thing leads to another and usually leads to the solution.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Are the Type III axle splines even longer than the late ('68-up) Beetle splines? There are off-the-shelf spacers to put a '68 transaxle in an older Bug with the short spline brake drums. 

(From Teeroy on the Samba)



> 67 long axles have short splines.
> 68 long axles have long splines.
> 64-68 type 3 are long with long splines.
> 
> ...


I've been told that all the Beetle and Type III IRS stub axles have the long spline. The only IRS Beetle I've owned is my wife's '79.

On a related question, do you know if I could use '68 axles (long spline/long axle) in my '67 axle tubes (short spline/long axle)? I know '68 axles are slightly longer than '67 but is it just the spline length?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Gotta have long tubes for the long axle but it is not really the tube but the end of the tube. That is different. Yes the 68 long axle is the same as the Type III. I do not know about the tube ends for the 68 but I believe that is the same as well. Yes all the IRS stub axles have long splines and the off the shelf spacers work on all of them. I just don't have a place close by to get an off the shelf spacer. So I ordered them NEW and will have them in three days. Faster than I can get time to run into Sacramento to pick some up. The internet and mail service is great. It was an easy fix once I could SEE the issue. Kudos to Bud at EMPI. He knew. 

I picked up a different set of long axles with tubes to replace the ones on the Roadster. They were shot. Can't imagine how that happened. I was able to find a clean pair for $125 bucks. I also got some weld in tabs to replace the seat mounts for my Bus. One more step closer for my Bus. Got clean seat frames for my old buss too. 

Pete


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Just found this. So no you can't use 68 Axles in your 67 Tubes. 67 uses long axles with short spline and is a one year only item. 



> '67 Beetles had a one-year-only rear axle & housing. It was a longer
> axle shaft, but still used the narrow brake drum found before '68...
> so the splined section of the shaft is short. In '68 the splined area
> was longer to handle wider drums.
> The cast iron ends of the housings should have an "A" cast into them.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

http://www.airkewld.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&Itemid=215&id=345


There is confusion spread through the VW industry. What rear axle is what? Now with this post, you can determine what you have. 
Beetle/Ghia
Normally, anything Pre-66 is Short Axle, Short Spline - End casting measures out to be 3 1/2" and the spline length is 2"
Normally 66-67 is Long Axle, Short Spline - End casting measures out to be 4 3/4" and the spline length is 2"
Normally 68 is Long Axle, Long Spline - End casting measures out to be 4 3/4" and the spline length is 2 3/4"
1969-79 is IRS
Brazillian and Australian models can and will differ along with trans swaps. 
Pics courtesy from thesamba.com


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So maybe you can use the 68 Axle if you use the 68 drums too.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Thanks for that link, but I still don't know because...

It turns out that the axle tube ends are different between '67 down and '68. The depth of the recess the bearing sits in is shallower on the older ones and as a result a different cap is used, locating the bearing slightly farther outboard. (but the '67 down also has a spacer inboard of the bearing and I don't think the '68 does) I have long axles because I have long axle tubes based on the info you just provided. I don't have the deeper set bearing because I was able to remove the old bearings with a hammer and chisel against the mostly exposed outer race. It was a pain for me to find a replacement axle 20 years ago (reverse gear went through the fulcrum plates on one side.) Early '60's brake drums for 30mm wide shoes fit my axles without a spacer so I have short splines. I have early rear bearing covers without the oil slinger washer in the cover. I'm pretty sure the current setup is '67 with the original 40 HP era bearing covers and brakes.

You are reading my mind Pete. 1968 rear brakes are exactly what I have in mind. Then I would have the same brake width all the way around the buggy and I could run the same wheel cylinders all the way around for 50/50 brakes. The stock forward bias worked better with heavier lead acid version of the buggy, but the now the front brakes lock to soon. I am currently running a duel circuit master cylinder on my otherwise stock '64 brake system.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

My axle has the inboard spacer as well. I have actually never had one that did not but then again I never had a 67 VW. Either older or newer. Mostly older.

Dang one year only 67 VW's


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I've only taken apart one '68 and that was back when I was in high school. I didn't check the bearing cover well, mostly went into it for the brakes (this trans had a bent shift fork and was stuck in 3rd.) I thought I found it didn't have a spacer inboard of the rear bearing. 

What I know is that I have long axles/short splines and early bearing covers that don't have the built in oil deflector. I know things currently fit right, no axle play or loose backing plate (2 possibilities from mixing the wrong bearing cover with the wrong axle tube.)

Hopefully you get the right collection of parts. Most sources I found seem to agree that the swing axle type III axles and tubes are the same as '68 USA and all later Mexican Beetles. The type III brakes are completely different, but going disc should (as well as the sources agree) be the same as putting them on an otherwise stock '68 Bug. 

"Progressive Refinements" can be a real PITA 40 year later!


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

If memory serves right:

All early transaxles were split case with the non synchro low gear. 
Then came the tunnel type, swing axle up to 1966 had big 5 lug pattern.
In 1967, it was still swing axle but the newer 4 lug pattern.
1968 and up were the IRS-4 lug type.

We used to replace our 5 lug/swing axle brake drums/backing plates with ones from the Bus for MUCH bigger drums.

The Bus trans had a 4.88 ring gear. You could use a bus transmission with car axles/tubes to compensate for taller tires. (Eliminate the bus reduction boxes).

Low gear was 2 pieces in all of tunnel type transmissions. You needed to weld the gear to the hub for any power mods at all.

The close ratio 3rd and 4th gear sets are a good mod for an EV. It makes 4th gear 1:1 and lowers 3rd down to cover up the uneven spread.

Miz


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

From what I recall it was the 68 that first came out with the 4 lug but still retained the swing axle transmission. I recall that 69 was the first year of the IRS. 

But there have been so many changes it also depended upon where you lived as to what changes you got and for what years. You could always special order any combination you wanted. They did offer that. When we had disc brakes on our bugs here in the states you could still order the most basic of beetle in Germany that still had the old cable operated brakes. Go figure. 

Anyway, Yes its a pain in the butt but It all fits good now. Time to button things up and move on to the next item. Seat mounting and battery fitting.


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