# Good batteries for 1st conversion



## wljohns (Mar 26, 2009)

I would like to know this too. I want to do my first one also. But trying to READ READ READ before I pull the trigger.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

As long as the costco batteries are actually a traction battery or golf cart battery (not a regular deep cycle battery) they should last a while. Ordinary flooded deep cycle batteries cannot handle the current drain that an EV will require. I suspect if you are comparing a $200 trojan battery (guessing a T-1275 or similar) to a $70 costco battery, I bet the costco battery is a deep cycle, not a traction battery. For what it is worth, Interstate or US battery traction batteries are generally a bit cheaper than the trojans, and are still considered a good EV battery by most folks.

There are other threads out there with people discussing the performance of their "big box brand" traction batteries. The consensus seems to be they do work, but don't expect the same range and cycle life as the more expensive brands of flooded lead acid.

With my 21 Trojan T-105s, I am 4200 miles and 18 months into this battery pack. Average drive distance is probably 20 miles. So far, no noticeable degradation and everything is staying balanced.

quip one: YGWYPF
quip two: "only a rich man can afford cheap batteries"

Good luck


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## chansen (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. I think the Costco batteries are the "dual" type. It states deep cycle and an Ahr rating but also has a CCA rating as well.

I ask the question because there are many threads out there with people perfectly happy with the Costco or Sam's Club batteries for their EVs. (and my buddy at workas well) None of them are smoking tires - just doing 20 miles rt to work every day.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

The CCA rating means that they are not good enough to keep yoiu happy with an EV.

A friend of mine is using Deka Gel batteries, the 31 series and is happy with them.

The run to work is about 20 miles. On tests he has had the car to 70 mph and has noticed that they bring themselves back up on charge, after a run.

They are not the best for very high amps continually, but driven normally, they are doing well.

I talked to a dealer in by Chicago, that thought I was someone else at the time and he told me his cost on the 24 series, that I am using, was $84.00.
After I asked him what he would sell them to me for, he asked "Who is this?"
Needless to say I didn't get any from him.

This supplier has a lot different pricing.
http://www.jansenmedical.net/mk-battery-group-24-solid-gel-mobility-battery.html

But they have come down, (a little) since the price of lead has come down.

All of the dealers, that I have talked to, have said that the Gels were a better choice than the AGMs.

The deep cycle/High CCAs will run great for a short time (as we most often kill our first pack), but the better choice (for the 2nd pack) should be a higher priced true deep cycle without a CCA rating.

You can go to a local golf course or handicap service center and see if they will sell you changed out batteries. They still will work in your EV, but they don't want to mess with them for another season. Hospitals sometimes have good batteries from medical equipment, that they will sell for a core charge. (ours won't, however)


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## chansen (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks - whats confusing for the newbie like me is that there are many websites and threads and builds that talk about using bateries such as Optima Yellow Tops and Hawker Geneisis batteries in their conversions (and happy with them) that have CCA type of rating so they are not true traction batteries. 

What I am really looking for is a decent reasonable priced, resonable performance FLA 12V deep cycle that a newbie like me can misuse for a couple years before upgrading the pack.


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

Yeah ... me too. My first post here.

Been lurking here for a while and have searched but found nothing on 12 volt Transcontinental batteries. Battery Giant has them for 90 couple bucks ($20 something for shipping them) and claim they have 250AH but give no other specs except that they can be used for golf carts, EV's and floor scrubbers ... traction battery applications.

So anybody know more about these? 

Oh ... and hi everyone.
And yes, I do have an EV in the building phase but I'm not quite ready to share photos yet. It's a rather unique reverse trike.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

fishguts said:


> Yeah ... me too. My first post here.
> 
> Been lurking here for a while and have searched but found nothing on 12 volt Transcontinental batteries. Battery Giant has them for 90 couple bucks ($20 something for shipping them) and claim they have 250AH but give no other specs except that they can be used for golf carts, EV's and floor scrubbers ... traction battery applications.
> 
> ...


Those are probably MASSIVE batteries, maybe 200 lbs a piece, too big and heavy for EV use. We have some at school for energy storage in one of the labs, and they are too heavy to move around and about 2ft x 2ft x 3 ft in size.

I got myself a cheap set of Walmart MAXX29 12 volt 125 Ah for my starter EV batteries, have about 135 miles on them and haven't run them into the ground yet. Great for getting the EV going on a budget and then upgrading when they die out and the warranty is gone.


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> Those are probably MASSIVE batteries, maybe 200 lbs a piece, too big and heavy for EV use. We have some at school for energy storage in one of the labs, and they are too heavy to move around and about 2ft x 2ft x 3 ft in size.
> 
> I got myself a cheap set of Walmart MAXX29 12 volt 125 Ah for my starter EV batteries, have about 135 miles on them and haven't run them into the ground yet. Great for getting the EV going on a budget and then upgrading when they die out and the warranty is gone.



I don't know ... the site doesn't give much technical info, but says they're 13"X7"X9.625 and that they ship for $28.01 ... so they must not weigh that much. I just went up to the last step in ordering to see what the shipping would be (I need 7) and the total only came out to $50! And it says if you buy enough of them the shipping is free. I looked up a couple other group 31 DC batteries and they weigh in the 65-67 lb. range ... but with no more than 130AH. Here's the link: http://www.batterygiant.com/displayitem.asp?zip=02719&id=31DCM&submit=submit


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

most trojans are 6 volt batterys make sure you are comparing apples to apples .
i.e. 
144 volz = (12) 12 volters but it's 24 6 volters

it's been pointed out to me that a newbie might trash a battery or two
and if thats the case lets say you lose a cell in 1 battery you losing either 6 volts or 12 volts from your whole pack , it's something to think about if it means making it home or not 

have you run these different types of batteries through one of the EV battery calc web pages ? it's helpful to see what range you can "roughly "expect from the battery types
http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/

weight and 20ah and size and budget 
walmart has a group 31 for $62 115ah

you might want to make a mock up of a 13 " battery


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> most trojans are 6 volt batterys make sure you are comparing apples to apples .


These are 12 volt batteries. The 250AH rating has me skeptical for a battery of this voltage and weight.

You know what they say about things sounding too good to be true ....

The EV calculator won't work for my odd-ball vehicle, unfortunately.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

sure looks like an RC rating number instead of the 20ah number.
I usually just pick any car and keep changing batteries to see the effect


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

Correction: 225ah.

I just contacted Battery Giant and they say the battery weighs about 65 lbs.

12 volt/225ah/designed for EV's, golf carts, etc./reasonable size and price ($89.95) and to-the-door shipping of $50 for 7 batteries ... I think I'll be going with these for my first batteries.


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## chansen (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks for the Battery Giant link. 


Any experience with Lifeline batteries anyone? The below AGMs are probably on the high end of my budget, but I'm considering these over the cheaper alternatives.


http://www.powerstridebattery.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=168&idproduct=835


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## EV59RAG (Oct 6, 2008)

fishguts said:


> Correction: 225ah.
> 
> I just contacted Battery Giant and they say the battery weighs about 65 lbs.
> 
> 12 volt/225ah/designed for EV's, golf carts, etc./reasonable size and price ($89.95) and to-the-door shipping of $50 for 7 batteries ... I think I'll be going with these for my first batteries.


 
So did you order this one? do you have it already? comment?


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

EV59RAG said:


> So did you order this one? do you have it already? comment?



Haven't bought my batteries yet ... I'm still tempted to try these.

The real catch is that even though they're $89.95, I'd need to have them shipped and the shipping quote on the website is way off according to Battery Giant.

Trojan 30XHS have similar specs and are probably of much better quality and I can pick them up locally. So that makes a difference ... assuming they're actually available for $145 as someone on here said. But I don't know ... I've since found that's what the price was in their 2007 catalog and every source I've found online sells them for $189.95 and up ... $100 more per battery than the Transcontinentals. So I just emailed EV America and asked them their current price on the Trojans. It might be Monday until I hear back from them, though.

But if in the end we're talking a $600 difference for the 6 batteries I need, that could be enough to sway me to try the cheaper batteries at least as a starter set. $600 means a lot to me.


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

So I just went to Battery Giant to check on the Transcontinentals and they are now MIA.


hmmmmmm.



Well like they say, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" .....


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## EV59RAG (Oct 6, 2008)

Well I dont know if you have GI Joes sporting stores in your part of the neighborhood. They are closing and having liquidating sale....

They have Trojans and all battery are 20% off.


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## jaspersk (Jun 26, 2008)

Got my first pack at Sam's Club. The golf cart batteries there have the same specification (amp hours, etc) as the Trojan T-105. They are not the RV/Marine junk that people talk about. These are true flooded lead acid deep cycle batteries. I have no doubt that the quality is likely inferior to the Trojan but you can't beat the price. In Cincinnati, I paid $71/battery. I asked the manager for a discount and he said there is pretty much no mark-up on batteries. The only discount they could offer was $3/battery if I purchased an entire semi-load. Yikes. 

I tried talking the manager out of the core charge and he told me I could bring in almost any battery and I'd get the core credit. I posted notes on craigslist and freecycle noting my electric car and was able to collect enough dead batteries to avoid core charges also.


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

jaspersk said:


> Got my first pack at Sam's Club. The golf cart batteries there have the same specification (amp hours, etc) as the Trojan T-105. They are not the RV/Marine junk that people talk about. These are true flooded lead acid deep cycle batteries. I have no doubt that the quality is likely inferior to the Trojan but you can't beat the price. In Cincinnati, I paid $71/battery. I asked the manager for a discount and he said there is pretty much no mark-up on batteries. The only discount they could offer was $3/battery if I purchased an entire semi-load. Yikes.
> 
> I tried talking the manager out of the core charge and he told me I could bring in almost any battery and I'd get the core credit. I posted notes on craigslist and freecycle noting my electric car and was able to collect enough dead batteries to avoid core charges also.




So how well did they work out for you?


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## john818 (Aug 1, 2008)

jaspersk said:


> I tried talking the manager out of the core charge and he told me I could bring in almost any battery and I'd get the core credit. I posted notes on craigslist and freecycle noting my electric car and was able to collect enough dead batteries to avoid core charges also.


CL and Freecycle! Great idea! I'll have to remember that.


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## jaspersk (Jun 26, 2008)

fishguts said:


> So how well did they work out for you?


Well, I have only been driving for a month with my Sam's Club batteries and I have been only doing shallow discharges so it is too early to tell. There are no dead cells. So far, so good I guess.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

I bought the Sam's Club 8 volt Golf Cart Batteries. They are Energizers and manufactured by Johnson Controls. 170ah each. I have about 500 miles on them and usually discharge them to 70% DOD. No problems so far. I don't expect them to last as long as Trojans but then I only paid
about $70.00 each. Since this is my first EV I didn't want to learn on a $200 per battery traction pack. 
I was able to talk the Sams Club manager out of the disposal fee as I had no batteries to turn in. It took his small mind a few minutes to understand that I would be again charged when I brought the 15 batteries back for exchange so why are they charging me now for no batteries to dispose of?


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## chansen (Mar 13, 2009)

Can you point me to the Sam's club batteries? I cxan't find them online or in my local store.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Here's a pic of them: Energizer GC8 Golf Cart
Ask for them at Sam's Club.


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

Well, I'm going to use old batteries that someone else has thrown away that can be rejuvinated for my first. 3 batteries acquired 9 to go. My cost so far $0.00


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