# [EVDL] Bycan charger shutting off too soon?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Cor,

A 100 foot cord length itself could be the problem depending what wire gage 
it is. Also you have to take in the length of the wire length from the 
receptacle to the breaker panel.

Looking at my wire length vs ampere tables, the maximum ampere on a No. 12 
AWG stranded copper wire is 13.5 amps at 100 feet with a voltage drop not 
less than 3 percent for power circuits.

For a No. 14 AWG stranded copper wire at 13.5 amps, the maximum length 
should not be over 50 feet for a 3 percent voltage drop.

Lets say your power cord is a No. 12 AWG copper wire and it is plug into a 
exterior 15 amp receptacle that has a circuit length to the circuit breaker 
panel is a 50 foot length, then you about 150 feet of wire to the panel. The 
voltage drop could be more than 7 volts or a end of line voltage between 112 
to 113 volts.

It is a NEC requirement that any receptacle circuit that goes over 50 feet 
from a power panel, the next wire size shall be use so the voltage drop is 
not more than 1 percent for light and 3 percent for power.

Another problem, is there may be other receptacles with some load on it with 
the same circuit your receptacle which may some load on it which will 
increase the voltage drop.

In your search engine, type in Wire or Power Cable Voltage Drop Tables and 
you should come up with several tables that you can input the conductor 
size, the length, the ampere and will read out the voltage drop.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Bycan charger shutting off too soon?


> Hi list,
> I need some help with my Bycan charger, I will probably
> also ask the vendor for advice, but at this moment I
> first like to check if others on the list have any
> experience with this.
> As you may have read, yesterday I barely made it home
> (not the fault of the charger as far as I can tell,
> simply that I was still recharging and the pack not
> yet completely full when I pulled the plug for a 25 mi
> drive which is about the limit this truck can do when
> taking freeway speeds into account. The steep hills
> that I was climbing did not help either)
> So when I plugged the 100 ft extension cord into the
> NEMA 5-15 (120V) outlet on the garage and saw the
> DC current into the pack go to 11 Amps at 120V, I knew
> that the charger should not be done before I had to go
> to work again the next morning - but I can ride the
> 11 miles on my bicycle and get a good workout.
> Of course I checked the status of the charger before
> leaving this morning and was surprised that it had
> already shut off. So I pulled the plug and plugged it
> back in again and it restarted charging the pack at
> just over 130V. That meant that it had not finished.
> Even half an hour later it was around 135V and if it
> would have charged full before then the level should
> be 150V for a while (equalization) but it was far
> from that. I will have to let it go and check again
> tonight, hopefully it will have finished normally
> by then.
> Unfortunately I did not check the lights on the charger
> before pulling and re-plugging it. I will keep an eye
> on it and check next time what the lights tell me,
> it may have a too short timeout that does not allow it
> to fully recharge on 110V, even though the input
> select switch should also tell it how it should charge,
> it is switching the main and the small (12V?) transformer
> between 240 and 110 so it should also be able to tell
> the logic to timeout appropriately.
> Anybody have this experience with Bycan?
> It is a BY-120/132/144-25A serial 0402011 which means
> that it can deliver up to 25A into a pack of 120 to 144V
> and it has input voltage selection 120/240V
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Roland,

Correct - the voltage drops at the end of the power cord,
more than I would like (it is down to about 105V which is
still within spec for USA appliances) when the charger is
first started and the batteries are taking max power. I
know that without that extra cord, the power would be
higher, probably closer to 14-15A initially and gradually
dropping off to 12-13A for the bulk charge, then when the
batteries are nearly full and the charge voltage climbs
the current keeps falling and I typically see around 5A
input, 4A into the pack when the batteries have risen to
150V (7.5V per 6V battery)
With the 100ft cord (which I believe is standard 14 gauge)
the initial current is more like 11-12A and dropping
slowly to around 10A for the bulk charge (9A at 130V into
the pack)
I have set the charger for 6 hours equalization instead of
the 2h that might be more appropriate at 240V, so I would
not expect to find the charger shutoff when I check it 13h
after plugging in.
Hmm, I'll need to call Bycan Systems to find out.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bycan charger shutting off too soon?

Hello Cor,

A 100 foot cord length itself could be the problem depending what wire
gage it is. Also you have to take in the length of the wire length from
the receptacle to the breaker panel.

Looking at my wire length vs ampere tables, the maximum ampere on a No.
12 AWG stranded copper wire is 13.5 amps at 100 feet with a voltage drop
not less than 3 percent for power circuits.

For a No. 14 AWG stranded copper wire at 13.5 amps, the maximum length
should not be over 50 feet for a 3 percent voltage drop.

Lets say your power cord is a No. 12 AWG copper wire and it is plug into
a exterior 15 amp receptacle that has a circuit length to the circuit
breaker panel is a 50 foot length, then you about 150 feet of wire to
the panel. The voltage drop could be more than 7 volts or a end of line
voltage between 112 to 113 volts.

It is a NEC requirement that any receptacle circuit that goes over 50
feet from a power panel, the next wire size shall be use so the voltage
drop is not more than 1 percent for light and 3 percent for power.

Another problem, is there may be other receptacles with some load on it
with the same circuit your receptacle which may some load on it which
will increase the voltage drop.

In your search engine, type in Wire or Power Cable Voltage Drop Tables
and you should come up with several tables that you can input the
conductor size, the length, the ampere and will read out the voltage
drop.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Bycan charger shutting off too soon?


> Hi list,
> I need some help with my Bycan charger, I will probably
> also ask the vendor for advice, but at this moment I
> first like to check if others on the list have any
> experience with this.
> As you may have read, yesterday I barely made it home
> (not the fault of the charger as far as I can tell,
> simply that I was still recharging and the pack not
> yet completely full when I pulled the plug for a 25 mi
> drive which is about the limit this truck can do when
> taking freeway speeds into account. The steep hills
> that I was climbing did not help either)
> So when I plugged the 100 ft extension cord into the
> NEMA 5-15 (120V) outlet on the garage and saw the
> DC current into the pack go to 11 Amps at 120V, I knew
> that the charger should not be done before I had to go
> to work again the next morning - but I can ride the
> 11 miles on my bicycle and get a good workout.
> Of course I checked the status of the charger before
> leaving this morning and was surprised that it had
> already shut off. So I pulled the plug and plugged it
> back in again and it restarted charging the pack at
> just over 130V. That meant that it had not finished.
> Even half an hour later it was around 135V and if it
> would have charged full before then the level should
> be 150V for a while (equalization) but it was far
> from that. I will have to let it go and check again
> tonight, hopefully it will have finished normally
> by then.
> Unfortunately I did not check the lights on the charger
> before pulling and re-plugging it. I will keep an eye
> on it and check next time what the lights tell me,
> it may have a too short timeout that does not allow it
> to fully recharge on 110V, even though the input
> select switch should also tell it how it should charge,
> it is switching the main and the small (12V?) transformer
> between 240 and 110 so it should also be able to tell
> the logic to timeout appropriately.
> Anybody have this experience with Bycan?
> It is a BY-120/132/144-25A serial 0402011 which means
> that it can deliver up to 25A into a pack of 120 to 144V
> and it has input voltage selection 120/240V
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

OK, tonight I came home to a charger with the green (completed)
light on steady. When I reset the charger, it pushed the pack to
above 147V within a few minutes and the yellow Timer led started
flashing. So, that is as I expect, but apparently the overall
timer is too short to fully charge the pack from a 110 outlet
before it times out.
I found the Bycan charger manual again and it said that the
timeout for the charger should be 16 hours before it shuts down
when it can't reach the equalization voltage, then the yellow
LED will remain blinking instead of showing the green LED.
OK, so my timeout apparently is too short and it needs to be 
extended to allow charging from 110V. Because within 13h the
charger had already turned off.
I have sent an email to Bycan this afternoon - let's see with
what they come back. Else I will remove the logic board from
the charger and trace the circuit out to see what needs to 
be changed.
Luckily the Bycan is a relatively simple charger:
The heart of it is a bridge-rectified (with two heavy diodes)
ferroresonant transformer (it has a large metal can capacitor 
mounted next to the transformer to make it resonant and
improve the power factor - that is probably the reason that
I can charge from a public charge station, although I plan to
install a J1772 inlet at some point and allow fast charge, that
will be the proof of the pudding wrt power factor and public
charging.)
Surrounding this very basic charger setup are a number of
things - safety such as a breaker, temp sensors and a fan,
display such as DC ampmeter and 3 color LEDs, control such
as a 110/240 switch and an equalize switch (keep the charger 
running for 2 or 6 more hours after crossing the 147V threshold
and this is all controlled by a small logic board.
So, that logic board is the place to look for the timeout that
happens too early...

While digging around under the hood I also found the answer to
another question, why my controller so frequently throws an
error about the accelerator pot. But I will put that in another post.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Bycan charger shutting off too soon?

Hi list,
I need some help with my Bycan charger, I will probably also ask the
vendor for advice, but at this moment I first like to check if others on
the list have any experience with this.
As you may have read, yesterday I barely made it home (not the fault of
the charger as far as I can tell, simply that I was still recharging and
the pack not yet completely full when I pulled the plug for a 25 mi
drive which is about the limit this truck can do when taking freeway
speeds into account. The steep hills that I was climbing did not help
either) So when I plugged the 100 ft extension cord into the NEMA 5-15
(120V) outlet on the garage and saw the DC current into the pack go to
11 Amps at 120V, I knew that the charger should not be done before I had
to go to work again the next morning - but I can ride the
11 miles on my bicycle and get a good workout.
Of course I checked the status of the charger before leaving this
morning and was surprised that it had already shut off. So I pulled the
plug and plugged it back in again and it restarted charging the pack at
just over 130V. That meant that it had not finished.
Even half an hour later it was around 135V and if it would have charged
full before then the level should be 150V for a while (equalization) but
it was far from that. I will have to let it go and check again tonight,
hopefully it will have finished normally by then.
Unfortunately I did not check the lights on the charger before pulling
and re-plugging it. I will keep an eye on it and check next time what
the lights tell me, it may have a too short timeout that does not allow
it to fully recharge on 110V, even though the input select switch should
also tell it how it should charge, it is switching the main and the
small (12V?) transformer between 240 and 110 so it should also be able
to tell the logic to timeout appropriately.
Anybody have this experience with Bycan?
It is a BY-120/132/144-25A serial 0402011 which means that it can
deliver up to 25A into a pack of 120 to 144V and it has input voltage
selection 120/240V

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Just a quick note that I have contacted Bycan and they
are pretty responsive in giving guidance what to try
to make the charger behave as specified.
I received the suggestion to adjust an internal trim pot
on the logic board which contains the timers for the
charger timeout, but apparently the pot does not modify
the timer clocks but only the detection level for when
equalization starts, so I am following up with them to
get the oscillators adjusted that drive the timeout counters
and have re-adjusted the trimpot to detect the proper level
for starting equalization timeout (its voltage threshold was 
a hair off, but not the cause of my complaint about early
termination of the charger that I expect would run at least
16 hours but did shut off within 12h so apparently the clock
is 50% fast. Since the clock is based on an RC circuit, my
guess is that the values are simply a bit off and mounting
slightly different component values will do the trick.

The previous owner has never driven the truck much and also
installed a 240V outlet so he never needed to charge as long.

The issue has now been re-assigned to the production manager
at Bycan - apparently to check if the issue I found is also
present in other units and/or if this is a known issue.

To be continued,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Bycan charger shutting off too soon?

Hi list,
I need some help with my Bycan charger, I will probably also ask the
vendor for advice, but at this moment I first like to check if others on
the list have any experience with this.
As you may have read, yesterday I barely made it home (not the fault of
the charger as far as I can tell, simply that I was still recharging and
the pack not yet completely full when I pulled the plug for a 25 mi
drive which is about the limit this truck can do when taking freeway
speeds into account. The steep hills that I was climbing did not help
either) So when I plugged the 100 ft extension cord into the NEMA 5-15
(120V) outlet on the garage and saw the DC current into the pack go to
11 Amps at 120V, I knew that the charger should not be done before I had
to go to work again the next morning - but I can ride the
11 miles on my bicycle and get a good workout.
Of course I checked the status of the charger before leaving this
morning and was surprised that it had already shut off. So I pulled the
plug and plugged it back in again and it restarted charging the pack at
just over 130V. That meant that it had not finished.
Even half an hour later it was around 135V and if it would have charged
full before then the level should be 150V for a while (equalization) but
it was far from that. I will have to let it go and check again tonight,
hopefully it will have finished normally by then.
Unfortunately I did not check the lights on the charger before pulling
and re-plugging it. I will keep an eye on it and check next time what
the lights tell me, it may have a too short timeout that does not allow
it to fully recharge on 110V, even though the input select switch should
also tell it how it should charge, it is switching the main and the
small (12V?) transformer between 240 and 110 so it should also be able
to tell the logic to timeout appropriately.
Anybody have this experience with Bycan?
It is a BY-120/132/144-25A serial 0402011 which means that it can
deliver up to 25A into a pack of 120 to 144V and it has input voltage
selection 120/240V

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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