# E-Scooter Rider Caught Between NJ Law and Law Enforcement



## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Tried to read the article but got pounded by ads and gave up!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I had no issues. Sounds as if you need a popup blocker or try turning off Java Script. Basically she has an electric bicycle that looks just like a motorized scooter, even says "Extreme Scooter" on the side, but the specifications meet the electric bike laws, small motor that can't go over 20 mph. If this thing had the exact same specs but looked like a mountain bike she wouldn't be getting tickets. Rather silly.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2011)

Worked fine for me.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

poprock1 said:


> Tried to read the article but got pounded by ads and gave up!


Use FireFox, and install the add-on "AdBlock Plus."


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## Squiggy (May 12, 2011)

I've been a motorcycle rider for many years. I also own a 150cc scooter. Even at 20 mph you can kill another human being with a scooter. It is a 250+ lb chunk of steel (plus rider) moving at 20 mph. Yes, you can kill another person with it... easily. I don't care if the thing has 'peddles' or not. It is still very dangerous. 

The woman in the article is a convicted drunken driver who is clearly trying to skirt the law and the driving restrictions placed upon her because she is an untrustworthy driver.

She should be riding a regular bicycle, walking or taking public transportation. Period. Hysteria over this particular case by EV fans is misplaced IMHO.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Actually if the vehicle fits within the legal criteria she is not skirting the law but following it. You can argue that the law may not be correct but unless there is a weight limit on electric bicycles, of which I am not aware, then she is not breaking any laws and is indeed being unfairly targeted. I also don't know the weight of this vehicle but I doubt it's 250lbs. And what about a really fat guy on a bicycle hitting someone at 20mph, or faster, since there are no speed limits on bicycles?


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## Squiggy (May 12, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Actually if the vehicle fits within the legal criteria she is not skirting the law but following it. You can argue that the law may not be correct but unless there is a weight limit on electric bicycles, of which I am not aware, then she is not breaking any laws and is indeed being unfairly targeted. I also don't know the weight of this vehicle but I doubt it's 250lbs. And what about a really fat guy on a bicycle hitting someone at 20mph, or faster, since there are no speed limits on bicycles?


If I try to argue with a senior member who has over 5,000 post I will probably get banned. Oh well. I stand by my previous statement. The woman should not be operating a motor vehicle on public streets. Clearly the laws need to be rewritten to take a case such as hers into account.

Her scooter looks exactly like my 150cc scooter, which weighs over 250lbs. Say hers only weighs 200lbs + 170lb rider = 370lb missile made mostly of steel (not a soft fat man on a 20lb piece of aluminum).

BTW I checked and her EV moped weighs even more than my 250lb 150cc gas powered scooter.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Feel free to argue with me, I don't know everything, or so I've been told  However, I still think you have a problem with the existing laws more than the woman. Besides, there are far more dangerous legal vehicles on the road than this chick and her 20mph scooter.


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## Squiggy (May 12, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Feel free to argue with me, I don't know everything, or so I've been told  However, I still think you have a problem with the existing laws more than the woman. Besides, there are far more dangerous legal vehicles on the road than this chick and her 20mph scooter.


I don't have a problem with the existing laws as much as I have a problem with a convicted drunk driver who is not supposed to be operating a motor vehicle driving on public streets and using EVs as an excuse to get away with it. I don't want her driving down my street where kids playing. She really could hurt someone. That is why she's not supposed to be operating a motor vehicle.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Then you have a problem with the law that allows her to legally do so. Frankly I think you're making much too big a deal about this, her potential to do damage is much lower than anyone else driving a car. Sober people run people over too.


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## Squiggy (May 12, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Then you have a problem with the law that allows her to legally do so. Frankly I think you're making much too big a deal about this, her potential to do damage is much lower than anyone else driving a car. Sober people run people over too.


Whatever dude. Now I know why you have over 5,000 posts. You love shooting your mouth off.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

And I now suspect you aren't going to contribute much to this site if you can't handle rational discussion. You obviously have a bug up your ass about this woman and can't see your own prejudices. The facts remain that she is not breaking any laws. I'm not interested in seeing random persecution of people who aren't breaking the law, and I'm also not interested in more laws that will infringe upon the ability of people to drive bicycles, electric or not. Her fat ass puttering around at 20mph is a very low level risk to the public compared to just about every other vehicle on the road. Sorry if the facts bother you.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

It is the police officer(s) who continue to target her who have the problem. IMHO, the police have enough to do in their "To Serve and Protect" mission than to spend time harassing a woman who is not breaking any laws. 

If this law seems unsavory to you, try speaking to your neighbors to get up a petition to change the laws in your area. But I warn you, be careful what you ask for as you might get it. 

Suppose she {or someone else in her circumstance tries to do the same thing} and is prevented from it. Then they lose their employment and the ability to provide for their family. Would they just let their family starve, or might they go to extreme and actually break some laws to feed them? By the grace of God, I have never had to make that decision personally. But, I don't think many people would hesitate too long before feeding the family outweighed following the law.


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## jerseygirl (Jun 2, 2011)

first of all let me tell you my DUI was on intent and was over five years ago---my license is suspended for non-payment of surcharges---I paid my fines and did the IDRC course and can reinstate my license at any time ---I just am living on Social Security and can't afford a car or ins. or gas for that matter and looked for an alternative and economical form of transportation that I could use as my disability prevents me from using my regular bike all the time......I refuse to give the state surcharge money that would literally cause a hardship for my son and I. This I thought was the answer.....apparently not --b/c the state and the MVC definition of electric bikes and motorized bicycle/moped differ.....MVC won't let me register it and are saying they are not illegal but the Prosecutor Don Charles says that Title 39 says I am a motorized bicycle/moped-----catch 22----and yet I still am fighting this---in touch with the Governor and DOT and the Attorney General's office---believe me this is a joke when they sell them in Northfield NJ and ride them in many places in NJ---I don't care if it looks like a banana---if it meets the Federal requirements of HR 727 and PL 107-319 and there is no ban saying they are illegal and I can't register it at MVC b/c they are saying I am a Low-Speed Electric Bicycle/E-bike and they are not in conflict with the Federal Laws ---what the hell do I do now????


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## Beemer (Jun 2, 2011)

Hello young lady. Yes, here in the UK we have issues with our policy officers issuing tickets to people with bicycles. The presumption of "innocence" is down to "babes in the wood". We even have the politicly persecuted in the UK who are issued tickets which they are entitled to refuse to accept.

You should of simply declined to accept any paperwork off the police until they have proof you have clearly contravened the law in question. Or simply bargained with the Judge for full clarity of the law or be proved innocent as is the case.
It's a contract you accepted to give others money. Nothing more. Maybe you should pay or it will be escalated?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHjWnbuSrQ
This video seems to be be censured but has plenty of reading matter with it.

This one works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHjWnbuSrQ


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## Beemer (Jun 2, 2011)

Squiggy said:


> I've been a motorcycle rider for many years. I also own a 150cc scooter. Even at 20 mph you can kill another human being with a scooter. It is a 250+ lb chunk of steel (plus rider) moving at 20 mph. Yes, you can kill another person with it... easily. I don't care if the thing has 'peddles' or not. It is still very dangerous.
> 
> The woman in the article is a convicted drunken driver who is clearly trying to skirt the law and the driving restrictions placed upon her because she is an untrustworthy driver.
> 
> She should be riding a regular bicycle, walking or taking public transportation. Period. Hysteria over this particular case by EV fans is misplaced IMHO.


Sorry but I feel it is you who is hysterical.

In the majority of accidents her head will be the first thing on the scene of the accident anyway. Don't presume this lady to be a constantly inebriated psycho because it says more of your mindset than hers. A conviction of being over the limit with a motor vehicle in my book, is usually a "future crime". Nobody was hurt, it was a heavy smack on the wrist via extra taxation and loss of rights to protect others, property and herself.

The misuse of law, as we see here is a problem we have with police.


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## jerseygirl (Jun 2, 2011)

There is nothing to pay----all tickets were dismissed on technicality--but the prosecutor is still telling me I am a "motorized bicycle/moped"----and MVC tells me I am not and will not register my e-bike----it's ridiculous to say the least!!!


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## Beemer (Jun 2, 2011)

jerseygirl said:


> There is nothing to pay----all tickets were dismissed on technicality--but the prosecutor is still telling me I am a "motorized bicycle/moped"----and MVC tells me I am not and will not register my e-bike----it's ridiculous to say the least!!!


The prosecutor can tell everyone Sunshine is banned. But the Sun will still shine.

He does not make law nor is he allowed nor given the powers to decide it.

He does not lawfully give judgement and will be in contempt of court if he attempts anything otherwise. As I comprehend this, the Judge quashed it.

If he or anyone writes to you again about it. Reply nicely stating that all correspondence will be used as possible action for contempt of court.


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## Tatsushige (Mar 24, 2011)

Book Her Danno!


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## Beemer (Jun 2, 2011)

Tatsushige said:


> Book Her Danno!


beware for what you wish for. Don't you think the system has become nothing more than a nugatory taxation scheme for thought crimes and non crimes to fund a war machine run by a multinational Mafia?

What happened to the land of the free? You are born free and you wish for a prison planet. All it takes is your self hatred and a lack of empathy for others.


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## Tatsushige (Mar 24, 2011)

Beemer said:


> beware for what you wish for. Don't you think the system has become nothing more than a nugatory taxation scheme for thought crimes and non crimes to fund a war machine run by a multinational Mafia?
> 
> What happened to the land of the free? You are born free and you wish for a prison planet. All it takes is your self hatred and a lack of empathy for others.


 
I was born FREE in Australia, but the place turned in to a DICTATORSHIP like the USA and UK, I decided to move to Japan in 2003 ... Japan is the Land of the Free.

I like to see the same happen to Australia, the UK and the USA as what is happening in Libya and Syria ... The People attack the Government and other countries bomb the hell out of the places!


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## Beemer (Jun 2, 2011)

Tatsushige said:


> I was born FREE in Australia, but the place turned in to a DICTATORSHIP like the USA and UK, I decided to move to Japan in 2003 ... Japan is the Land of the Free.
> 
> I like to see the same happen to Australia, the UK and the USA as what is happening in Libya and Syria ... The People attack the Government and other countries bomb the hell out of the places!


You are right on young fella!
All in the name of big oil and the money to pay for it. Gov'ts are nothing more than the biggest Mafia in each patch.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Tatsushige said:


> I was born FREE in Australia, but the place turned in to a DICTATORSHIP like the USA and UK, I decided to move to Japan in 2003 ... Japan is the Land of the Free.


In all fairness, Australia began as a prison state, so it's no surprise if it has returned to said state.


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