# Elcon Charger?



## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

Very interesting, no experience but nice price and 'looks good'


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

I have had one. Very good chargers. My only complaint is the user cannot program them. So this makes it very important when you buy one to specify the exact voltage you will need when ordering. 

Since you are using LEAF batteries, they use a bit of an odd voltage, and what voltage you use will depend on how many cells you have in series. So make sure you get that part right.

Leaf batteries are 66 AH, and you want to limit charge current to no greater than C/2 or 33 amps. So you could go as high as a 3300 watt Charger if you can afford it. But you might ask yourself do you really need a 2-Hour charge rate before dishing out the cash when a 1500 watt model or C/4 (4-hour rate) still gets the job done.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

According to EVAlbum,com, Elcon is the second most used brand of charger for converted EVs, though well behind Zivan and with Manzanita Micro not far behind.

But the 1.8 and 3.3 kW models are rather different to the older models, much more compact for example, so these are a bit of an unknown quantity. I'd be interested to know what's inside them. I'm guessing wide band gap MOSFETs.


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## MathisLaurant (Feb 21, 2017)

Sunking said:


> I have had one. Very good chargers. My only complaint is the user cannot program them. So this makes it very important when you buy one to specify the exact voltage you will need when ordering.
> 
> Since you are using LEAF batteries, they use a bit of an odd voltage, and what voltage you use will depend on how many cells you have in series. So make sure you get that part right.
> 
> Leaf batteries are 66 AH, and you want to limit charge current to no greater than C/2 or 33 amps. So you could go as high as a 3300 watt Charger if you can afford it. But you might ask yourself do you really need a 2-Hour charge rate before dishing out the cash when a 1500 watt model or C/4 (4-hour rate) still gets the job done.



Really? I thought that I could change the profile with some software add on. I plan to keep it compact for a motorcycle, I don't plan to change the batteries chems. maybe if I do change it, then i could find out if they are willing change charging profile for a cost. and a 2hr charge time is always good. maybe 3.3kw is the way to go. 

but i saw that there are 82 amp hr Leaf cells from newer leafs ==> http://evbatterycenter.com/HAC4/ind...battery-module-500wh-4x-cells-82ah&Itemid=605

I am tempted to go with those 82. though it is almost double the cost of the 66 amp hr cells



Coulomb said:


> According to EVAlbum,com, Elcon is the second most used brand of charger for converted EVs, though well behind Zivan and with Manzanita Micro not far behind.
> 
> But the 1.8 and 3.3 kW models are rather different to the older models, much more compact for example, so these are a bit of an unknown quantity. I'd be interested to know what's inside them. I'm guessing wide band gap MOSFETs.



Well, in the weeks to come, I'll be the test mouse, see what happens, and let the forum know. I would be willing to get the 3.3kw(if it fits on a '06 GSX-R). just been saving up cash for it


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

You can change the program within limits on your own. Coulomb has documented the process in the TCCH Elcon firmware thread. He is the DIY master of these chargers.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

kennybobby said:


> You can change the program within limits on your own. Coulomb has documented the process in the TCCH Elcon firmware thread.


Alas, this only applies to chargers manufactured before late 2013. After that, they have an ARM processor, and I haven't looked at how to extract the firmware from those. Or even if it's possible.

The charger mentioned by the Original Poster was an 1800 W model, which is even newer and less known.


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

We have had a bit of a discussion on the Australian EV Association forum regarding these chargers. I have now ordered the 3.3kw charger from China which is due for delivery after about 10th July.

I will keep you updated but my previous Elcon chargers have worked fine.

Regards
Paul


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

MathisLaurant said:


> Really? I thought that I could change the profile with some software add on.


Yeah I am pretty sure. They want money to change it. That is why it is imperative you order them with a specified algorithm. 

Been a while but when I had mine it came with 4 or 5 algorithms I specified. I think you can still have a few algorithms specified. Other members with more recent experience with new models should be able to clarify.

As for me being in Telecom I have access to large rectifiers and have learned how to with Audrino and Teensy microcontrollers so I can make a charger do anything I want.


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## umali (Jul 5, 2017)

Hello,
I own an old ELCON-modell with 1,5kW with Enable-control (not the CAN-model). With this old model you can control *variable *current/power with a 2-5V-signal (i.e. from a microcontroller with PWM + RC).

The new Elcons (small, Alloy-case, with Fan) with 1,8 & 3,3 & 6,6kW could be configured also with Enable-control instead of CAN but there you will get *only ON/Off-functionallity* !!!
http://www.elconchargers.com/UHF.html

To have *variable *power control you will definitely need the CAN-Bus model where you can send endvoltage and current with a CAN-message (much more complicated than with the old 2-5V-input-system). But with that you can PROGRAM it by yourself. This makes it very flexible. Only max. endvoltage- and max. current-value of the choosen charger-type are the limits. So I think, you can use a high voltage model also for less cells (only send the suitable endvoltage value by CAN-bus). 

I've checked this with different sellers now.
So we start with developing a voltage to CAN-message-converter because we can't get the old ones anymore.
Therefore we will use an AT90CAN128 micro with integrated CAN-hardware. Hope we get it working.

best regards from Germany
umali


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## MathisLaurant (Feb 21, 2017)

Paul9 said:


> We have had a bit of a discussion on the Australian EV Association forum regarding these chargers. I have now ordered the 3.3kw charger from China which is due for delivery after about 10th July.
> 
> I will keep you updated but my previous Elcon chargers have worked fine.
> 
> ...


How did that charger turn out for you, Paul? Any update?


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

"How did that charger turn out for you, Paul? Any update?"

The short answer is that I have not received it yet. I was quoted a 12 day delivery from the payment date. I waited about 18 days and sent them an email asking about a delivery date. They apologised and advised that it had not left the factory yet. As of today (11 July) I have not received it.

A slightly longer answer, to give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt, is that I actually ordered two 3.3kw chargers but I wanted one of them "dumbed down" to 2.2kw. Here in Aust we have two common circuits, some 10 amps at 240 volts (2400 watts) and some 15 amps at 240 volts (3600 watts). My residence and some of my friends' places have the 3600 watt circuits so I would like to charge at these places using the 3.3kw charger. Some public charging points have only 2400 watt circuits hence the 3.3kw charger would be useless. The 1.8kw charger would be suitable for these circuits but terribly slow so I asked that one of the 3.3kw chargers I ordered be "dumbed down" to 2.2kw which the manufacturer agreed to do.

The delay in delivery may be because it would, I assume, take time to modify the second 3.3kw charger down to 2.2kw.

I will advise as soon as they are received.

Cheers
Paul


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## dubelt (Sep 27, 2011)

Do anyone know where to buy/order Elcon /TC Charger 3.3kW in EU ?


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

Sorry but the only places I know where Elcon chargers are available are China and the USA


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi people,

I said in a previous post that I would advise when the new 3.3kw chargers arrived. Well, they finally arrived. I ordered and received the non CAN bus versions in case anyone is curious. There is no manual with them so I had to get onto the TC Charger website to download it.

Problem 1 is that the old chargers had an IEC connector on the AC input side and a POS and NEG line on the DC output side. The new chargers have a 4 pin connector on both the AC input side and the DC output side. The 4 pins are marked A, B, C and D and the female connectors (supplied) are also marked A, B, C and D. Ok, I didn't have too many problems up to that point.

I then consulted the manual. For the AC input side, the A pin/hole is for the "Null" line and the B pin/hole is for the "Fire" line. The D pin/hole is for the GND line. Here in Aust the GND is commonly the earth line. However I have never heard of a "Null" line nor a "Fire" line. My assumption is that the Fire line is what I normally call the POSITIVE line and the Null line is what I call the NEGATIVE? I would appreciate someone confirming or denying that assumption!?

Problem 2 is that DC output side in the manual is described as "A.D" is positive and "B.C" is negative. I don't know if that means A OR D is Positive or that A AND D is positive. I assume that "A.D" being the Positive means that I can use either the A or D pin/hole for the positive and either the B or C pin/hole for the negative. Again I would appreciate someone confirming or denying my assumption?!

Problem 3 is that on the female connector the holes are marked A, B, C, and D. The problem is that I can't tell which letter refers to which hole! To best describe the arrangement I would imagine the face of a clock. The holes are at the numbers 3, 6, 9 and 12. The letters are between the numbers 3, 6, 9 and 12. That is the A hole sits between the number 12 and the number 3. So is the A hole referring to 3 on my clock face or the hole at 12 on my clock face?

I haven't even looked at the signal control input output yet.

Any advice much appreciated!
Thanks
Paul


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Paul9 said:


> I then consulted the manual. For the AC input side, the A pin/hole is for the "Null" line and the B pin/hole is for the "Fire" line. The D pin/hole is for the GND line. Here in Aust the GND is commonly the earth line. However I have never heard of a "Null" line nor a "Fire" line. My assumption is that the Fire line is what I normally call the POSITIVE line and the Null line is what I call the NEGATIVE?


AC doesn't have positive and negative, dspite what a lot of electricians will tell you (especially in Australia, where many mains cables have red and black for active and neutral respectively, just as you would expect for positive and negative respectively). [ Edit: and I meant to say: I would assume that "null" means neutral (in Australia, light blue or black; note black is hot in the USA and some other places). I would also assume that "fire" is a poor translation of "active" (in Australia, brown or red). ]



> Problem 2 is that DC output side in the manual is described as "A.D" is positive and "B.C" is negative. I don't know if that means A OR D is Positive or that A AND D is positive. I assume that "A.D" being the Positive means that I can use either the A or D pin/hole for the positive and either the B or C pin/hole for the negative.


I would assume that A and D are both connected together, so you could use either, but you may as well use both connected together, to share the current. But it would be a really good idea to check this with a multimeter, with the charger turned off (and not having been turned on for the last minute or several).



> Problem 3 is that on the female connector the holes are marked A, B, C, and D. The problem is that I can't tell which letter refers to which hole!


You should be able to sort that out by checking the earth pin; it should connect to the metal of the charger. Again, use a multimeter to find out which side of the letter is the indicated hole. Amazing and dangerous that they can make this ambiguous!

If you can post some photos of the connectors, preferably close-ups, that would be helpful.


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

As I promised I thought I would advise progress(?) with the two new 3.3kw chargers I bought.

First problem is that the connectors are 4 pin, pin and socket connectors. The female connectors do not fit snugly onto the male connector - they wobble! Even though they are locked in they still wobble.

Secondly the female lugs that go into the female connector don't stay in. If you turn the female connector upside down and tap it, the lugs (and any wire attached to them), fall out of the connector. These lugs are also very thin. Less than 2mm in diameter. Don't drop them on the garage floor as, if your garage looks like mine, you will never find them. And TC only give you 8 pins in total - no spares.

Thirdly, neither the female connectors nor the lugs that go in them are available in Australia. I have tried some online stores suggested to me by "Coulomb" and they have advised they do not have them.

Fourthly the User Manual is less than clear in regard to which hole in the female connector receives which wire. Emails with "Coulomb" and a number of emails to TC in China have, I think, cleared this up.

As a result of the above I managed to blow one of the connectors up (the DC OUT connector). A loud bang accompanied by a large shower of sparks and melted lugs was the result. Despite being very careful that the right wire went in the right hole, I may have stuffed up my connecting somewhere, so I am not laying all the blame necessarily on the charger. End result is one stuffed $1,000AU charger.

I have been told persistence is a virtue so I got out the other new charger and wired it up without the female connectors and insulated the living daylights out of all the wires. I powered the charger up and it just sat there. The fan didn't spin and no LED lights. But I had achieved something - no explosion! About the same reaction as if I had wired up a house brick.

The old PFC TC Chargers using IEC connectors were just plug and play. The only other thing I have noticed is that the new 3.3kw TC chargers from the USA (based only on photos on their websites) already appear to have wired up the connectors for you and have the wires running out of the connectors so you only have to connect the wires.

I am fully aware than a number of my problems with my EV have been a result of my own stupidity so I took my "good" TC Charger ("good" as in not the one I blew up) over to my electrician brother's place to check my wiring and test the charger. Even though my crimping of wires to lugs was fine, he always likes to solder things, so he rewired all wires with solder.

We then connected up the AC IN as per our understanding of the manual, the DC Out as advised by TC in China, and connected the 12v+ to the enable line as I don't use CAN. He then put a multimeter on the DC out and absolutely no reading. The fan didn't spin and no LED lights showing error messages.

If anyone successfully wires up their new charger I would be extremely interested in how they wired it up!!!

Thanks
Paul


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## MathisLaurant (Feb 21, 2017)

I still plan to buy the charger from here:

http://evcomponents.com/customized-chargers/elcon-tc-hk-h-1800w-charger.html

but what do you put in the parameters for if you are using Nissan leaf cells?

From what was said earlier, the company will program it. 

but where my confusion is that Nissan doesn't provide a "nominal" voltage for the cells, only a max voltage of 4.2 volt from what I could find. I am using the 82 ah cells. At max charge, it would be 100.8 volts. And with the way the cells are arranged in Leaf cells would be 24 total Cells. also the chemistry would be just li-ion, right? and as for the AC input I could pick 90vac~256VAC correct living in the US 

I just wanted to run by you guys here before i make a move and get with the wrong setting.


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## halestorm (Apr 28, 2009)

Mathis, Will you be using a BMS? If you are then you could have the charger programmed for the max, and then all of your control comes from the BMS. This is what I'm doing for my Chevy Volt cells. I have an Elcon PFC2500 that was programmed for 4.2 * number of cells but I never let the Elcon have control. So it's essentially as close as I can get to a CCCV charger. The BMS has full control of the charging process -- it enables and disables the charger (the Elcon PFC2500 has an enable line) and then I can effectively program my charging through the BMS.

If you don't have a BMS and this kind of control, then I don't know what to say. I did a 2-second google search for "leaf cell nominal" and this was the first hit : https://qnovo.com/inside-the-battery-of-a-nissan-leaf/ Perhaps that will give you some insight. Maybe 3.95v/cell?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

MathisLaurant said:


> Nissan doesn't provide a "nominal" voltage for the cells, only a max voltage of 4.2 volt from what I could find.


The nominal voltage is usually given as 7.5 V per module, or 3.75 V per cell. But I think I would give a nominal voltage of 3.70 VPC, so that you get a "standard" non-LiFePO₄ charge voltage range of up to about 4.1 VPC. It's all a bit mysterious how they select the charge profile. I'd want to get some details about it. Hopefully you can call them up and ask what to specify for Leaf cells. They are common enough that surely they would have a profile that is right for those cells.


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

Mathis,

I can't answer any of your questions better than Coulomb. What I did notice is that you intend to buy from evcomponents.com

I have emailed back and forth to this firm recently. I checked the company name and found that back in 2009 - 2010, a firm of identical name was taking people's money and not supplying the ordered goods. It was basically a "scam'! Legal action was started but I could not find any results of that action. I don't know if this is the same company.

I also note that there is no physical address listed on their recent emails. You therefore can't verify the company physically exists.

Be careful!

Cheers
Paul


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## MathisLaurant (Feb 21, 2017)

Yeah i contacted Elcon direcly and they said that they are not a distributor
i think that's why i was getting confuesd with the guys from EvComponents at the time. 

thanks for the heads up, paul9

part of the conversation i had with elcon attached 

i'd rather support them, ya'know


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

In fairness to EVComponents.com I should post further. 

I ordered a KPES charger from them. Delivery was a little slower than they had promised and my emails to them requesting delivery updates were rarely answered. To my surprise the charger was finally delivered. I just tested it and it appears to work perfectly. 

How long it will last is another question I obviously cannot answer at the moment but so far so good!

Cheers
Paul


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

I got this Elcon charger from Evcomponets read about it here.
They set the voltage right where I wanted it.
32 cells at 4-volts 128-volts that is where the charger stops charging.
I am using Optima-Kia Hybrid cells, each cell is 8s 32-volt and have 4-cells in series for 128-volts.
I did not want to charge all the way to the top or will not discharge all the way to bottom.

http://ivanbennett.com/forum/index.php?topic=17.msg2082#msg2082

This is the charger 
http://evcomponents.com/customized-chargers/elcon-tc-hk-j-3300w-charger.html

--


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## MathisLaurant (Feb 21, 2017)

halestorm said:


> Mathis, Will you be using a BMS? If you are then you could have the charger programmed for the max, and then all of your control comes from the BMS. This is what I'm doing for my Chevy Volt cells. I have an Elcon PFC2500 that was programmed for 4.2 * number of cells but I never let the Elcon have control. So it's essentially as close as I can get to a CCCV charger. The BMS has full control of the charging process -- it enables and disables the charger (the Elcon PFC2500 has an enable line) and then I can effectively program my charging through the BMS.
> 
> If you don't have a BMS and this kind of control, then I don't know what to say. I did a 2-second google search for "leaf cell nominal" and this was the first hit : https://qnovo.com/inside-the-battery-of-a-nissan-leaf/ Perhaps that will give you some insight. Maybe 3.95v/cell?



Sorry, halestorm, i thought i had replied to you, 

but yes i will be using a BMS. Batrium BMS, their BMS works with Elcon/TC chargers but they don't know if with the newer model i've been looking, that they have change and of the CAN Protocols. but i don't suspect that they would change anything.

i think i may just take a chance with it. will i need a can box? or is it built into this new charger?


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## halestorm (Apr 28, 2009)

MathisLaurant said:


> i think i may just take a chance with it. will i need a can box? or is it built into this new charger?


CAN is not built in to the Elcon chargers, but can be added for a fee. There is a built-in enable control input, and that's all I use to give my BMS control over the charging.


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## MathisLaurant (Feb 21, 2017)

halestorm said:


> CAN is not built in to the Elcon chargers, but can be added for a fee. There is a built-in enable control input, and that's all I use to give my BMS control over the charging.


alright, sounds good then, thanks


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

halestorm said:


> CAN is not built in to the Elcon chargers, but can be added for a fee.


My understanding, and I'd like to improve it, is that Elcon branded chargers (manufactured by TC Charger in China) have CAN built in for the newer UHF compact models (1.8 kW and 3.3 kW etc), but not the standard PFC 1500 W, 2000+, or 2500 W models.

This seems to be different to the TC branded chargers presumably from the same factory, which all seem to have had CAN built in since 2014. The TC branded post 2014 chargers have different electronics (so out traced schematic is only approximately correct, and only on some models), and even the microcontroller is different (so the replacement firmware I've been writing won't work with those models).



> There is a built-in enable control input, and that's all I use to give my BMS control over the charging.


The new models (all except Elcon branded PFC models and pre-2014 TC branded models) seem to have an enable signal that is on-off only. Models with the 7-pin round connector (Elcon branded PFC or pre-2014 TC branded) have I believe an enable input that can be used as an on-off control or proportional control (the latter using 2-5 V for 0 to max charging current). The proportional current enable signal is wonderful for finishing a charge as quickly as possible without overcharging any single cell, but of course you need a BMS that is aware of individual cell voltages and capable of sending the 2-5 V analogue voltage.

If anyone has a charger that disagrees with the above, please reply and I'll edit the above to make it correct.


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## halestorm (Apr 28, 2009)

Sorry, to be clear, I can only really speak to the Elcon that I have, which is the PFC2500 referenced in post #19. When I purchased it from Elcon (August 2014) they gave me the option to pay an extra $85 for a CAN bus adapter. Instead, I use the two wire enable/disable connector (it may be a 7-pin input with only two wires brought out to the connector) to control the charging. I wanted as close to CCCV as I could get, either full on or full off and put all of the decision making into the BMS.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

halestorm said:


> ... they gave me the option to pay an extra $85 for a CAN bus adapter. Instead, I use the two wire enable/disable connector (it may be a 7-pin input with only two wires brought out to the connector) to control the charging. I wanted as close to CCCV as I could get, either full on or full off and put all of the decision making into the BMS.


So do you use proportional charging or on/off? If on/off as you seem to imply, how do you do the CV portion of the charging if it's full on, set for a voltage higher than you want to go?

If you want the BMS to take control, and I think it's a good idea, then using the CAN bus protocol is a good way to do it. The BMS sends the voltage and current setpoints every second, and can "turn off" the charger at the end (the output relay opens, and the charger draws very low power). There are one or two BMS that can talk to the serial connections on the 7-pin round connector, saving you from having to buy the external CAN bus adapter. The external CAN bus adapter converts CAN bus messages to short packets of 2400 bps serial (not RS232 levels, it's a sort of current loop).


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## halestorm (Apr 28, 2009)

Coulomb said:


> So do you use proportional charging or on/off?


on/off. This is essentially what I'm doing: http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/elcon.php


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Paul9 said:


> In fairness to EVComponents.com I should post further.
> 
> I ordered a KPES charger from them. Delivery was a little slower than they had promised and my emails to them requesting delivery updates were rarely answered. To my surprise the charger was finally delivered. I just tested it and it appears to work perfectly.
> 
> ...


Hi Paul, 
Which KPES charger did you order.
Im also in Australia , My AC51 finally arrived and I'll start pulling ICE out of my project vehicle next week, Im holding off purchasing my 45 x 180ah CALB cells until closer to completion but Im looking around for a suitable charger now,

Is the KPES charger mounted onboard or you carry with you.

Im was thinking of going with Elcon TC HK-J 3300W Charger until I read of your connector saga !!

This one also looks good but when you convert to $AU its just over the $1000 threshold . 

http://evcomponents.com/customized-chargers/3000w-elcon-tc-charger-for-lifepo4-lithium-leadacid.html

cheers Don


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

Hi Don,

I ordered and received the 2kw charger as follows:

http://evcomponents.com/kpes-k2000w-charger.html

I have it mounted on board. I have only had it a couple of weeks but so far it works well. I like the fact it has a voltage readout on it which I can use to check against my other voltage read out. The cooling fans on it are a little loud but blow air through the charger and out the other end thus getting rid of hot air more efficiently than the Elcons which are fully sealed. The disadvantage of course is that the KPES is not fully sealed and therefore could get moisture/rain into it.

Of course the price $299US is much better than the Elcons $789US.

Suspecting (incorrectly) that the EVComponents firm was a scam, I had already ordered another charger - the Elcon PFC 2500 which I received. It now has also been mounted on board and works well. I haven't tested whether I can use both chargers at the same time but that test is next on my list.

Let us know how you are progressing.

Cheers
Paul


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Thanks for prompt reply Paul

I would prefer a fully sealed unit as its going in a 4x4, its likely going to see dust, moisture & excessive vibration, (theres a thought I might use rubber standoffs. )

I just received a reply from same company re my enquiry about ill fated Elcon TC HK-J 3300W Charger , and in the light of your failed unit asked for PDF documentation in english. 

Did you buy the CAN or non CAN version, The CAN version needs a BMS connected and configuired before charger will work, Also looks like both versions need a control signal before charger will fire .

I might have a crack at a non CAN version .

once I get stuck into the project I'll keep y'all posted

cheers Don


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

G'day Don,

Yes in a 4x4 maybe the sealed Elcon is better. Pity about the price difference.

I bought the NON CAN version of the new 2500watt Elcon and have a BMS to control things. 

I just hooked both chargers up simultaneously to give me a combined charge rate of 16.15amps at 240v AC. They both worked fine! This will be handy when I get charged at a Chargepoint J1772 outlet which, I believe, allows up to 32amps at 240v.

Cheers
Paul


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