# Series 2 Land Rover & Hyper 9 Direct to LT230 Build Thread



## agmatthews (Oct 5, 2018)

Hi Tom,
What size printer to you print your Hyper 9 on?
Do you have the STL files available?
-Andrew


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi Andrew, 
I have a Makerbot Replicator 2, it's quite an old machine now but is a super reliable beast! its build plate is 285 x 153mm, and can print 155mm tall. This was printed in PLA and stuck together with superglue.

I have put the STLs i made on Thingiverse - Netgain Hyper 9 DHV Motor . Just for reference, the manufacturers CAD files are here on go-ev  , so all credit to them! 
At time of writing, Thingiverse doesn't seem to have actually published my thing (it 404s), so fingers crossed it appears soon.

On the build front - I'm waiting on a quote for manufacturing the shaft, and have ordered a waterjet cut blank of the adapter plate where i can bore out the center to final size and drill/tap holes as needed. This should be in hand by early february, fingers crossed.


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## tanadaear (12 mo ago)

Interesting post. I’m in BC Canada. I have a 2a station wagon that I’m thinking about going electric on.

Have you seen any videos of direct conversions vs through the gearbox? I’d really like to know how it drives.
Secondly, I like the idea of Tesla packs as the water cooling can be used to warm the batteries when it gets cold. -30C isn’t uncommon here.
Nice 3D print


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## agmatthews (Oct 5, 2018)

VintageVolts said:


> Hi Andrew,
> I have a Makerbot Replicator 2, it's quite an old machine now but is a super reliable beast! its build plate is 285 x 153mm, and can print 155mm tall. This was printed in PLA and stuck together with superglue.
> 
> I have put the STLs i made on Thingiverse - Netgain Hyper 9 DHV Motor . Just for reference, the manufacturers CAD files are here on go-ev  , so all credit to them!
> At time of writing, Thingiverse doesn't seem to have actually published my thing (it 404s), so fingers crossed it appears soon.


Thanks Tom,
All available on Thingverse now
Ttime to blow the dust off and level up the printer bed and see if it still works.
A


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok, so, a small update!
Bought myself a vertical milling machine which needed a bit of TLC, And got a chunk of Aloominum (6082T6) Water jet cut locally so i could make my own adapter plate:









Lots of double checking on the DRO later and we had this









I'm tremendously pleased with it for a number 1 prototype, it mounts up really nicely to the transfer box. I have to mill a pocket out to allow one of the bolts to be tightened up from the side and i may add a small through hole to allow oil to drip out if the oil seal ever starts leaking (it's a land rover after all...)








.


I've also completed a City & Guilds level 3 training course for EV & Hybrids, this was really helpful on the theory side of things, and the place i went to do the training at (ZeroEV near Bristol, UK) were excellent. I got to ask tons of questions about my conversion and got some real honest, down to earth advice. So i recommend them!!

I also showed my adapter plate off and they gave me the chance to fit it to a real Hyper 9! Pleased to say it fits, and the bore in my adapter plate is a really nice and snug transition fit









The dude i've asked to give me a quote for machining the shaft adapter is really busy so i may as well get the tooling and make that myself too.

The quest continues

Cheers


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## SuperV8 (Jan 22, 2020)

VintageVolts said:


> Hi Folks,
> Long time lurker and learner here from the UK (South Wales), thought i'd start documenting my build as it slowly progresses.
> 
> The vehicle:
> ...


Really interesting project. Following with interest.
Learn't to drive in my Dad's Series III 2 1/4, when the chassis nearly broke in half towing our caravan back from the lake district we re-built it on a galvanised chassis.

Regarding driving the LT230 directly - have you done speed calculations using the low range gear reduction? to give you better acceleration - as you'll obviously never need 100mph in a series LR! 55 was scary for ours.

Tom.


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

SuperV8 said:


> Really interesting project. Following with interest.
> Learn't to drive in my Dad's Series III 2 1/4, when the chassis nearly broke in half towing our caravan back from the lake district we re-built it on a galvanised chassis.
> 
> Regarding driving the LT230 directly - have you done speed calculations using the low range gear reduction? to give you better acceleration - as you'll obviously never need 100mph in a series LR! 55 was scary for ours.
> ...


The low range ratio on all LT230s (that i know of!) is 3.2:1, so at 6000RPM i'd be doing 47mph, or maxed out at 8000RPM would be 63mph. Acceleration is great and all but the torque on your diff pinions would be pretty extreme i think, not to mention the extra noise that the transfer box makes in low box - the low range gears are extra chunky and i doubt they'd appreciate being over revved. 

I think if i wanted to drag race it (lol!) i'd put some really low profile tyres on a spare set of rims - it would look ridiculous but would probably pull quite well..! But, i don't want to get ahead of myself just yet. 

Oh also @tanadaear sorry for missing your question: No i haven't seen any other direct drive conversions other than people using a tesla drive unit (e.g. electric classic cars) and removing the gearbox and transfer box completely, or driving the gearbox in place of the engine as Jaunt EV did with their landy. 

Projectwise I've been put in touch with a precision spline manufacturer now to get my motor shaft adapter quoted up, the suspense is killing me!
Tom


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

These are brilliant...beats using CAD (cardboard aided design). Off to another thread, pilfering this idea...


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## Elguru (Mar 31, 2021)

Heh Tom, amazing work and very impressive engineering.

evLandrovers.com


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## CorkLandie (11 mo ago)

VintageVolts said:


> Ok, so, a small update!
> Bought myself a vertical milling machine which needed a bit of TLC, And got a chunk of Aloominum (6082T6) Water jet cut locally so i could make my own adapter plate:
> View attachment 127531
> 
> ...


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## CorkLandie (11 mo ago)

Hi
I seem to be at an almost identical stage of my Series 3 rebuild and conversion to an EV…
Fortunately it looks as if you have done most of the hard work of adapter design already!
Would it be possible to grab a CAD copy of your design for a donation to the vertical milling machine fund?
I seem to have found a fella who can manufacture the adapter for me but needs either my transfer box or a CAD package… 🤔
Great work so far!


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## eRover Mike (10 mo ago)

I had to join the forum just to say that this is really impressive. Like CorkLandie, I am at about the same stage with my Series 3 SWB having picked up a project that someone started to convert to electric, but only got as far as the chassis, axels, and suspension. Jaunt is an inspiration, and their videos are outstanding.

I have wrestled with transmission vs. direct drive question and am leaning towards connecting the Hyper9 to the R380 and then then LT230. My calcs on the speeds say that it could go direct drive to the LT230 and still provide a decent speed for a Rover (and for where I will use it), but I am leery about needing a mechanical disconnect in case of a runaway, although I don't know how frequent they are and if it is really a concern.

Tom, what was your thinking on needing a mechanical disconnect? Or do you have something clever planned?


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Hey Tom, great project!
Nice to see someone doing the Mech Eng properly! 
I never considered printing a Hyper9! Obvious when you think about it. I guess I just figured, so long as you can measure accurately - if it works on CAD, it will work in real life.

I do wonder if you'll get the low end torque you need, mounting direct to the transfer box. Long ago, I converted a Freelander using a Suzuki SJ413 Transfer box and a Siemens motor which had roughly the same peak torque as the Hyper9. The final drive ratio is similar - but I found it struggled with steep hills and so ended up driving it in Low Range most of the time.

If it does prove an issue, I've seen that you can buy 'torque boxes' - an in line planetary gearbox, intended for applications like this.

My first car was a 1959 SII - which I still miss, despite having had a succession of Land Rovers ever since.
Best of luck with the project - I'll be watching to see how it goes (literally).

Si


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## SuperV8 (Jan 22, 2020)

SimonRafferty said:


> I do wonder if you'll get the low end torque you need, mounting direct to the transfer box. Long ago, I converted a Freelander using a Suzuki SJ413 Transfer box and a Siemens motor which had roughly the same peak torque as the Hyper9. The final drive ratio is similar - but I found it struggled with steep hills and so ended up driving it in Low Range most of the time.
> 
> Si


Interesting, how did you find it driving in low range on the road?
Why not use low range all the time? or did that limit your top speed?


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok, well it's been a while since my last update (and i just accidentally deleted my post so am starting again....)

So!
I got in touch with a (sort of) local engineering firm to get a shaft manufactured. They in turn had to have a custom spline cutter ground, to match the Land Rover gearbox splines - the splines have a much narrower pressure angle than anything on standard spline tables. This was very expensive  .
Then, the guy making the spline cutter got covid and was seriously ill so the project was put on hold for quite some time. The end result though is a beautifully made shaft with nitrided splines and for which i own the cutter, so could make some little 'kits' in the future if this one passes my testing!

I decided to fit an auto torque biasing diff inside the LT230, made by Ashcroft Transmissions. The gears inside the OEM diff are the weakest point of the LT230, and are prone to failing if the diff is worked particularly quickly... and of course EVs like spinning their wheels. with the box in bits i decided to give it a full overhaul of bearings, bushes and other expensive stuff:









The sledge hammer was only used lightly... 


Some time later, after also buying a Hyper 9 HV kit, we have this:








I really like how it's turned out so far - it looks (to me) like a tiny tesla drive unit, really compact!

Here's a short clip of it turning on the workbench.





I borrowed a bunch of 220Ah batteries from work to power it up on the workbench, and got a Prius throttle pedal to test it out.

Next on the shopping list is a waterproof connector housing for the motor and the real big spender will be 14 LG Chem 4P3S modules from an iPace / VW iD3. Might need a few more months to save up for that though unless someone wants to go halves on an iPace battery pack somehow.

For drive decoupling the LT230 does have a neutral position if i need to push the Landy - it'll no doubt be impossible to select if the motor is ever out of control, where i will rely on the brakes to overcome the motor and stop me - i have disk brakes which are pretty powerful! I've also got a posh little e-stop button which i'm definitely going to put somewhere on the dash!
Failing that i'll die. c'est la vie.

I did also purchase a 6.6kW onboard charger from a well advertised UK seller of renewable energy hardware (i'm not going to name them)... and they have since done a runner with my money. I'll be able to claim it back via Visa & chargeback but i'm a bit out of pocket. Always check TrustPilot, folks! I learned the hard way this time.

Well that's about all i can remember for now, i did write a longer post but i deleted it. d'oh!

Cheers


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## asymptonic (Oct 14, 2021)

VintageVolts said:


> Might need a few more months to save up for that though unless someone wants to go halves on an iPace battery pack somehow.


Oof, that's tempting. I would jump at the chance but I still lack shop space to get started on the big parts of my project. I too am currently going the 14 iPace/eTron batteries and the HV Hyper9.


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## NRS91 (8 mo ago)

VintageVolts said:


> For drive decoupling the LT230 does have a neutral position if i need to push the Landy - it'll no doubt be impossible to select if the motor is ever out of control, where i will rely on the brakes to overcome the motor and stop me - i have disk brakes which are pretty powerful! I've also got a posh little e-stop button which i'm definitely going to put somewhere on the dash!
> Failing that i'll die. c'est la vie.


I guess in that situation you would rely on being able to turn off the main contactors and kill the high voltage side?


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## cjfernandes (6 mo ago)

Looks great, would you consider seller me one or selling me the plans to have my own made up?


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## jacksatik (5 mo ago)

hey Tom, great job.
i'm a student in the automotive engineering department.. i'm interested in similar projects.
the part i'm curious about in your project is the engine connection. does the engine have a spline cad model or which standard? DIN5480 or something? Can you share the technical details about the spline? can you send me the spline cad model? [email protected]


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

(i'm having a hard time working out quotes on here!! omg)

to the contactor question - i don't think i'd kill the main contactor as the flyback would (probably) destroy the motor controller. I'll follow the EV west diagram and the examples given for the Orion 2 BMS.





jacksatik said:


> does the engine have a spline cad model or which standard? DIN5480 or something?


No sorry, the spline is a proprietary design by Land Rover as far as i know - the pressure angle on the splines is much smaller than what i could see in all the standards i looked in (we have access to standards in my workplace).

Update: mainly shopping









I now have in hand:

14 battery modules from an eTron, bought from EVbreakers - very good people to deal with IMO.
Four chill plates which i'll have to modify slightly to fit my modules (modules are too long!) from ZeroEV.
DANA / Netgain SME compact display, from EVeurope
Orion 2 BMS - i printed and have bound the install and operation manuals so i can vandalise them with notes and highlighters. They're a great read! From ZeroEV
Vac pump (707254020) for the brake servo, along with a SPVL3521219 vac switch and reservoir from a london taxi. dead cheap from car breakers on eBay.
TRW PA66 power steering pump from a Vauxhall Astra, also from a car breakers on eBay.
1000W DCDC converter.
6.6kW Elcon charger, thanks to MoonUnit on this forum!
Big sheet of copper to make busbars from, I can plastidip and tin plate them myself.
bailiffs at the door (well not quite)


With my Hyper9 HV Install i want to hook up a brake pressure transducer, to squeeze as many Watt hours back in to the battery as i can, because the land rover is not particularly aerodynamic...
Googling suggested that the brake system i have has a max pressure of 96 bar. So i got a Bosch *0261545059* 144 bar pressure transducer - the datasheet specifically says it's suitable for brake fluid, which can be quite nasty. Sensor has a M10 x 1mm thread, so for me it was a case of changing a three way tee for the front brakes to a four way tee / union . pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is signal and 3 is +5V supply.

I hooked up a data logger and went for a drive:








The three biggest spikes are where i was pressing as hard as i could on the pedal whilst stopped at traffic lights. Regular braking happens at up to 40-50 bar and the transducer picks this up nicely, so i'm happy with it.

Next job is finishing off an electric actuator for the central difflock - more on this later. It would be easy to use a vac actuator but i don't want to add a potential failure point for my brakes... cos they're kind of important 🤔 I've got a solution for the hi/neutral/low gears which works really well.

Cheers!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

deleted


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

OK, so! A few pictures, I have been busy over the past few weeks, also went on holiday and stuff so that was nice

Started with this:









Then this, 








Then, after a bit of tidying, this!









There's more to take out, and whilst i'm here i'll strip and paint the chassis, put all new brake lines in, and do pretty much a full rewire - the original wiring is a complete mess.

For holding the 'new' drive unit in place i set about making some decent mountings. 
The original setup (well... in Defenders and Discovery 1's) is one gearbox mount per side. The mounts are quite soft so I've used two per side to make a nice and sturdy setup - i can always take one out in the future if needed. Here's a [badly] tack-welded, almost finished mount for the RHS. Pleased to say they're all fully welded up now!









I made sure the position of the mounts were symmetrical relative to the output driveshafts, to hopefully avoid the box skewing side to side under torque. Managed to use the original chassis mounting positions too.

I've got a hydraulic accumulator bracket on the way to hold the end of the motor in place. I can't see there being a huge amount of force on this bracket, but it will obviously bob up and down without one.

Here's the state of affairs at the moment









Thought i'd chuck the seatbox back in just to see if it still fits - which it does!









Now it's time to lift the motor up again, take all the brackets off and paint them, and degrease / paint the chassis. I also scalloped the chassis years and years ago when i had a different gearbox, so will put it back to how it was originally.

Originality is key!  

Very exciting!


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Oh i forgot!

Comparison pics of drivetrains:



















These are probably my favourite pictures so far - the difference is incredible (to me)
Cheers


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## EVsilver (Jun 18, 2021)

VintageVolts said:


> Oh i forgot!
> 
> Comparison pics of drivetrains:
> 
> ...


Great pics!! Well done, nice progress


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Nicely integrated. 

What did you use for the motor adapter and coupler to the transfer case?

Do you plan to run it in low or high gear?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

VintageVolts said:


> Oh i forgot!
> 
> Comparison pics of drivetrains:
> 
> ...


Nice comparison. Now add the fuel tank to the engine, and the battery to the electric motor, and compare again... different result. Unfortunately for making EV conversions look good, an electric motor really is not equivalent in function to a fuel-burning engine.


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

remy_martian said:


> What did you use for the motor adapter and coupler to the transfer case?


Thanks, i made my own adapter plate and had the adapter shaft machined elsewhere after designing one, see post 6 onwards on this thread.

I'll be running it in high gear, i.e. 1.667:1, with 3.54:1 diffs , i'm unlikely to get super rapid acceleration BUT that's not what i'm after. i want something to commute with, go shopping, and camping with, I think my drag racing days are over now that i've grown up a bit (perhaps)

I have the option to swap to 4.7:1 diffs if needed but may have to watch the propshaft RPMs at that point.

Here's a snapshot of my ratio calculator for all available LT230 ratios


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

A clear case of Covid-brain - I totally forgot about the earlier posts even though they were impressive. Sorry about that.


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## SuperV8 (Jan 22, 2020)

If you use your 1.667 LT230 reduction & your axle reduction of 3.54 that gives you a total drivetrain reduction of 5.9:1. The Hyper 9 HV looks like it has a max torque of around 220Nm? - so this would be a max wheel torque of 1298Nm.

Using the 2.25 petrol series engine as an example comparison - it has a max torque of about 168Nm - so would give the same wheel torque when geared to total drivetrain reduction of 7.7:1. 
Using the same axle and LT230 gives a gear box reduction of 1.3:1 which would be equivalent acceleration to the 2.25 petrol stuck in 3rd gear.

I know you're not drag racing - but I learnt to drive and spent a lot of time in my dad's 2.25 series 3 and would say third gear acceleration was rather pedestrian.

The 4.7 ratio axles would give you 1723Nm wheel torque (33% more) which is more like acceleration in 2nd gear (well more like 2.5 gear if there was such a gear!)


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

SuperV8 said:


> I learnt to drive and spent a lot of time in my dad's 2.25 series 3 and would say third gear acceleration was rather pedestrian.


True indeed, I guess you'd have to hold the engine at its peak torque RPM and slip the clutch to get the max torque out of it though, by which time the clutch would be smoking and your dad would probably be hitting you as the engine revved it balls off 😆

Here's another old landy with a conversion using the Hyper 9, the dude keeps his in third gear with the original [i'm assuming Suffix C] box 




Stay tuned to find out ... there's no going back now!

plenty of room in the boot for rocket boosters


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## NRS91 (8 mo ago)

For those casual spectators of EV conversions what rpm does the Hyper9 rev to?
The cruising RPM of my Disco 2 is around 2700rpm in overdrive top so would need around 3800rpm to match it. I have seen some EV conversions running a 2.8:1 planetary reduction which helps turn the 12,000rpm into greater peak torque delivered more often than a ICE can manage.

The JerryRigEverything Hummer EV conversion runs this set up into an Atlas transfer case.


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

The Hyper9 has a max of 8000RPM, and the Hyper 9 HV which i've got has a max of 9000 according to EV Europe. This is 133mph in my case, not including wind drag and exploding propshafts of course. It's not the going fast that's difficult, it's stopping (in the rain etc). I'll probably speed limit it in the software to some sensible number. 

I tend to do about 65mph on the motorway when cruising, which is 4402 RPM. This may be a bit lower in the future to extend my range.

I've watched the JerryRig EV build, it must be nice to have such an endless budget!


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## NRS91 (8 mo ago)

VintageVolts said:


> The Hyper9 has a max of 8000RPM, and the Hyper 9 HV which i've got has a max of 9000 according to EV Europe. This is 133mph in my case, not including wind drag and exploding propshafts of course. It's not the going fast that's difficult, it's stopping (in the rain etc). I'll probably speed limit it in the software to some sensible number.
> 
> I tend to do about 65mph on the motorway when cruising, which is 4402 RPM. This may be a bit lower in the future to extend my range.
> 
> I've watched the JerryRig EV build, it must be nice to have such an endless budget!


Ah ideal! Id probs design around a 85-90mph max speed if it was my project.

I think JRE's planetary reduction is the part of that project I would want for any EV project, perhaps one could be made using the planetary reduction from a ZF Auto-box?

R.E range... would a higher load but lower RPM give better range than lower load but higher RPM?
I'd have thought it would be the same power requirement but maybe the higher RPM would be in a better efficiency range for the motor?


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

You've done an amazing job since I last dropped in to this thread!

If the ratio turns out to be a bit too high, you could source a 109 T Ton transfer box, which is 1.53:1 in high range (3.27:1 Low). I think yours will be 1.15:1 High, 2.89:1 Low? That at least will fit straight on to your adaptor.

with 4.7:1 diffs - that would give 7.2:1 overall reduction compared to your 4.07:1.
That would result in 3120rpm @ 40mph (close to the peak efficiency of the motor)
5400rpm @ 70mph
8000rpm @ 103mph 

Just a thought for the future!


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

NRS91 said:


> I'd have thought it would be the same power requirement but maybe the higher RPM would be in a better efficiency range for the motor?


Highest efficiency is around 3200rpm for the Hyper 9


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

OK, picture time!
At work i've fixed up a CNC plasma cutter that we had in storage - so that has been very handy to cut bits out! I could possibly cut a few bits for others in the UK if you're stuck.

My motor setup had the tendency to nod / rock back and forth, so some time was spent drawing up a cradle:



















These were the first bits i cut on on the plasma, which was pretty cool! The arms are 3mm mild, and the band is 2.5mm zintec









I thought the fit to the rearmost band would be weird but it worked out well:










Before fitting anything too permanently though i decided to degrease and pressure wash the old paint off - the engine bay had a decade of engine oil and grime etc stuck all over the place. 

Here we are just before blasting... note i now have a gazebo (with lights!) as the winter is long and wet here in the UK











And back to the red oxide primer, which is stuck on there for life










whilst that was drying off I drew up a mount to cover the clutch pedal hole and hold the PAS pump









Fresh off the cutter









And folded / primered









And here's where we are right now!









I've also removed the terrible shelf brackets / wing hinge brackets at the front of the chassis, and added some more refined ones.

More pics in another post, i have run out of picture allowance in this post...


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Close up of motor steady - there's a layer of 1mm neoprene between the aluminium and steel band, for obvious reasons (corrosion)









PAS pump:










Oh i've also got a solution for keeping the original throttle pedal, using a Bosch throttle pedal position sensor, common on BMW E36, E39 etc up to 2000-ish, and Range Rover P38s!










The existing throttle pedal and balljoint linkage is the right length to get just under the full range of travel out of the sensor, which is nice.- and the internal spring is more than enough to push the pedal up! I'll need to fit a weatherproof plug in place of the one that's on there, though.











next steps: more painting(!), umm... 
Fit the seat box, and make underseat boxes for electrical stuff to go in. I'm trying to keep the charger inside, as i drive the landy all year round and our roads get covered with salt in the winter

cheers


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

SimonRafferty said:


> If the ratio turns out to be a bit too high, you could source a 109 T Ton transfer box, which is 1.53:1 in high range (3.27:1 Low). I think yours will be 1.15:1 High, 2.89:1 Low? That at least will fit straight on to your adaptor.


Good idea, however i'm using the LT230 transfer box which is usually found in Defenders and discoveries, to my knowledge they weren't used in the 1 tons? The transfer boxes for the series gearboxes need much more machining to make an adapter plate for. Nothing's impossible of course but the LT230 is easier, for me anyway


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

VintageVolts said:


> Good idea, however i'm using the LT230 transfer box


Doh!

However, Ashcroft make a 1.667 gearset for LT230's - only £240


https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/1-667-gear-set/



That alone might be enough.

I also have a (home made) CNC Plasma








One of the single most useful tools I own. I love being able to go from an idea to a lump of metal in under 15 mins!
I've got a CNC Mill & Lathe too - but barely use them these days. Most jobs can be turned into something cut. folded, welded.

Likewise, anyone wants bits cut I'd be happy to assist. For free, if you supply the steel!


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok, so!
Repaired some aluminium corrosion on the rear tub (body) where it attaches to the chassis behind the seats... this took ages but it's better to get it done now.
we now have brakes, and power steering!


Made a steadying bracket for the brake pipes as they looked a bit prone to vibration:










PAS pipes fitted, it was fun testing the steering without an engine running. Also placed the modules in place before drawing up a pack on the computer. There's a load of room in the engine bay without any motors taking up space!










The DC-DC, BMS and contactors of course will live inside the pack, so it should all fail safe with no external voltage when it's all shut down. i'll make a little adapter to water cool the DCDC via the spare face on the chill plate.

Some coffee later:










Set the plasma cutter up to cut my copper busbars. I will mill the bolt holes out for the electrical connections to maximise contact surface area as the plasma is a bit brutal:

















The ends of these will be tin plated to match what's on the eTron modules, and i've got some orange plasti-dip to try making orange insulators for the rest of the bar.

QUESTION - any suggestions for what material bolts to use for bolting the busbars to the battery terminals? What do OEMs use in their packs? I don't know if brass is a good or bad idea, and to go with BZP as they're stronger, especially in M6 (about 1/4" dia.) flavour.

Slots n stuff in the mill











And here's where we are now, tack welded for the moment - pleased to say everything fits together! The slots are to allow the chill plates to be bolted down. I didn't want any holes underneath. the UK is a wet country!










Next step is to tack weld the rest of the frame on, then get some chassis mounts made up before everything gets too heavy 😆fusion360 says it'll be 218 kilos fully finished.

Cheers!


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

The contactors you are showing are Tesla battery pack ones so do not have economiser built in, what will be controlling them?


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Tomdb said:


> The contactors you are showing are Tesla battery pack ones so do not have economiser built in, what will be controlling them?


Hi Tomdb thanks for that, the contactors in the picture are gigavac GV200-MA EV ones, i was under the impression they have the economiser built in? as per the description here 
Gigavac GV200-MA EV Contactor - 4000 Amps Max - EV200 Replacement - 12 Volt Internal Economizer, EV West - Electric Vehicle Parts, Components, EVSE Charging Stations, Electric Car Conversion Kits 

Any way to check, i.e. an ammeter in line when powered up etc? 

I'm guessing the BMS will control them, i haven't read the orion manual for a few months now!


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes you put a multi meter across the wires. and measure the resistance, it its low ohms like 20ish no economiser.

The link does not look like your contactors. Yours have the connector on them and not fly leads out the top.


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

Tomdb said:


> Yours have the connector on them and not fly leads out the top.


well spotted, now i'm back from work i can see that they are not what i ordered, lol 

5 ohms










now i'm sad


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Looks great so far! 
I've not tried plasma cutting Copper - I don't know why it didn't occur to me! I could have made a much neater job of some of the interconnects.

In response to your question about bolts:









The further apart the two metals are on the chart, the more electrolytic corrosion they will experience. (search for "Metal Electrolytic Potential" for a better list)

The terminals on the Hyper 9 controller 'look' like they might be Nickel coated. Tin (Solder) is pretty close to lead on the chart. Stainless steel (active 303, 304, 316) also sits in the range between copper & Nickel.

So, Tinned Copper attached to Nickel coated terminals with A2 or A4 (304 or 316) Stainless bolts would likely be a good combination. I hope I'm right about that - it's what I've used!

Stainless (bolts in particular) have a habit of 'picking up' or Galling - but you can buy anti galling paste which largely stops it, meaning you can loosen them next time.


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

OK, a fair amount has been happening since my last update! I've been very ill, and also pulled onto another project or two so i'm a bit behind. I have:

Designed, cut out and welded my mounts to the chassis. Two of the mounts are where the original engine mounts were, with two further back.
for bushes i'm using leaf spring poly bushes - they're a land rover part number, and a nice and simple design to work with. I wanted the mounts to hold the battery fully 'captive' i.e. effectively a bolt through a steel tube. I moved away from the traditional engine mount style, as if the rubber shears off, the battery is free to go anywhere it likes - however if that did happen i'd be dead by that point anyway so is it really my problem?

The longer of the mounts also have gusset plates to stiffen it all up:










And another one, you get the idea.









All welded to the chassis:










Underneath of the battery box, note that the tubular bit can also be used as a lifting point. Nice!










Here's the box after much more welding and a coat of paint, i'm pleased with how it's turned out so far. It also fits in the car which is great! lol










Sides cut from 2mm Zintec, I was wondering whether to use aluminium or steel, but steel is stronger and more fireproof(!) than ally, so that that got my vote. The orange thing is a fused HV disconnect from Citini. I'll coat the panels with Buzzweld FXliner, which is basically a 2K schultz stuff, which is nice and tough.











My battery modules are now bolted to the chill plates with thermal pads inbetween. I'll assemble and test it as much as i can outside of the frame, then move it in to the frame when ready. I've now got the correct contactors with the built in economisers too! Thanks again TomDB for noticing my error.











Might twist all these wires together and hope for the best.


What multi pin connectors do you EV builders like to use for talking to stuff outside of the pack? That's one of the things i am yet to decide on. I used MIL spec connectors in a previous career which are great but slightly fiddly to get just right.


Thank you SimonRafferty for the material suggestions above, that's really helpful - i'm hoping to keep everything as dry as possible to minimise corrosion effects! 

Thanks again.


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## asymptonic (Oct 14, 2021)

VintageVolts said:


> What multi pin connectors do you EV builders like to use for talking to stuff outside of the pack?


Discovered Deutch connectors and love them. Very easy to assemble, waterproof, versatile, and more than one manufacturer. Comes in all kinds of pin counts.

Sample video


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## asymptonic (Oct 14, 2021)

Considering a flange mount connector like this for all the low voltage signals to and from my battery box.


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## agmatthews (Oct 5, 2018)

asymptonic said:


> Considering a flange mount connector like this for all the low voltage signals to and from my battery box.


And if you are using an Orion BMS then they recommend using gold plated pins on any connectors to ensure the BMS can measure cell resistance correctly, which you can get for the Deutsch connectors. 
A


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

asymptonic said:


> Discovered Deutch connectors and love them.


Ah great i'll have a look at those, cheers!



agmatthews said:


> And if you are using an Orion BMS then they recommend using gold plated pins


A good point, however my BMS will be inside the pack so I won't need to sense cells outside of it in this case.


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