# New Astroflight Brushless DC Motors



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

The Curtis AC drives do not support PM motors, that I am aware.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

17 in-oz of torque per Amp

17 in-oz = 0.0885 ft-lbs

160A * 0.0885 = 14.16 ftlbs of torque


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

Curtis Instruments just told me to use Sevcon Gen4 controller.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Does that motor really cost $3000 each?


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

major said:


> Does that motor really cost $3000 each?


Yes.
I'm hoping the price drops when they start producing more of them.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sunworksco said:


> Curtis Instruments just told me to use Sevcon Gen4 controller.


I hear good things about the Sevcon AC controllers but haven't yet touched one. I hear it is limited to 300 Hz. And that motor appears to be a moderately high pole count; maybe 12. So that could knock the 8000 RPM in half or less along with the peak power. You also need to verify the controller will handle the motor inductance.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Man, except for the price, that would be a perfect upgrade for Squat someday. My current (brushed) PM motor is that exact size.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

I emailed Sevcon today and hope to hear back from them about the motor tomorrow.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> 17 in-oz of torque per Amp
> 
> 17 in-oz = 0.0885 ft-lbs
> 
> 160A * 0.0885 = 14.16 ftlbs of torque


A friend of mine is using an Astroflight BLDC motor that is 1/4 the power of the new motor in his reverse trike recumbent bicycle and it can get up to 60mph.
I'm planning to use 2 of the new motors, with added Timken M-15 Hall's Effect sensors, on my front wheel drive reverse trike car. It will have two 100volt lithium polymer battery packs and a Sevcon Gen4 controller.
This should be very efficient in a ready to run 800lb. car with a very tiny frontal surface area. The body design is a Stanley Rocket race car but with the direction of the body reversed.


MR. STANLEY IN HIS ROCKET


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Cool looking car, 128mph in 1906...nice!

I found an article about a reverse trike similar to the one you mentioned...
30hp (two 15hp motors) can accelerate 90lb trike (w/o driver) 0-40mph in 4.5secs

http://www.electricbike.com/50mph-monster-electric-trike/

It will be very interesting to see the data from the two 20hp motors accelerating your 800lb car.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

Matt Shumaker's trike.
He builds the best motor drive systems with Astroflight motors.


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## DanGT86 (Jan 1, 2011)

I read a post just today where Matt Shumaker said he thought this motor will be capable of 40kw bursts. Two on one vehicle should be pretty neat.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

DanGT86 said:


> I read a post just today where Matt Shumaker said he thought this motor will be capable of 40kw bursts. Two on one vehicle should be pretty neat.


please link post


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54260&p=835465#p835465


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## DanGT86 (Jan 1, 2011)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54260

Matt shumaker posts under the user name Recumpence. For those who don't know, he is the go to guy for astroflight motors on Electric bikes/trikes. He has worked with Astro in the past to develop and test new motors for EV use. 

Sounds like he will be torture testing one of these motors in the near future. 

I have also heard that astro motors have been used for military UAVs. They have unbelievable power to weight ratios. They are hand built here in the USA. Really cool stuff. 

Posted ratings of this one seem to be pretty conservative. I am looking forward to seeing what its capable of.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

nice, so the 100V 150A 15kw rating was more of a continuous rating and the motor can push out 40kw with 400A...Damn!

i love this technology!


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Nice find, but I doubt this is suited for a (road-going) EV..
To me it looks like an expensive way to produce smoke.

I fly/built RC planes and these kind of motors are generally in the 100-400 euro/dollar region. Not 3k. They probably can deliver peak power, but not do they last very long at all. 

Either way, its your money! 

Id rather buy 3k worth of Tungsten.


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## DanGT86 (Jan 1, 2011)

You are definitely correct that they are an expensive way to produce smoke. Like any high performance item the margin of error is very slim but the payout in performance is great. I think of them like the Formula 1 motors of the E-bike world. 

Starting them from a dead stop or under a large torque load at low speed only further narrows the fine line to keep from cooking the motor. Controller programing and use of an external device like a Cycle analyst to ramp the current in slowly are a big help. The cycle analyst can also temp monitor and limit current/throttle based on motor temp. Also those Shumaker drives all contain a torque limiting slip clutch on the large primary reduction pulley. This allows for some slip to prevent the enormous current spike that would accompany high torque acceleration. These things are way happier when you let them spin. Just a little rolling start makes a huge difference in the initial current load. 

Like anything else, you can engineer around the shortcomings of a system but it may not be easy or cheap.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm into RC boats, planes and quad copters and have seen all of the BL motors out there but the new Astroflight 4535 motors are going to be a game changer in lightweight road vehicles like the 800lb. Reverse trike that I an designing. I'm planning to use Blackstone Black Mamba carbon fiber center lock peg drive 17" wheels and Ducati style single-sided swingarm. Each wheel weighs only 5lbs, as well as the swingarm.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

I should be able to program all of the safety parameters in with two Sevcon Gen4 controllers.
Using two Astroflight 4535 motors for an independent front wheel drive should take a lot of stress off of the motors and still have good torque.


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## DanGT86 (Jan 1, 2011)

How much of an issue is it trying to balance the RPM between the two motors? Do they want to torque steer?


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

The Sevcons will communicate with each other and will be programmed as if they have limited slip differential.
There shouldn't be any torque steer.


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## rclugnut (Aug 11, 2011)

Hi,

Has there been any further developments on this motor/ controller combo. I was initially thinking of using a Kelly controller to bump up the voltage a bit. I'm working on designing a car to compete in the SAE Formula Hybrid competition and we are looking at doing a multiple motor design. Would this motor be capable of regen with the right controller?

Thanks


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

A Sevcon Gen4 controller, using a Timken Hall's Effect sensor will work.
You will need 2 sets of the motors and controllers.
I am talking with Plettenberg about the Nova Series motors, too.
There are going to give me an English translation of the brochure and will post it here.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

sunworksco said:


> ... The body design is a Stanley Rocket race car but with the direction of the body reversed.
> 
> 
> MR. STANLEY IN HIS ROCKET



I am a fan of historic top-speed racing and especially the early "low horsepower" vehicles. Please note that the Stanley racer exploded into pieces after hitting a small bump at approximately 140 mph. It had no suspension and was really an upside-down canoe with bike wheels sticking out. 

Please make your design is much safer!!

Good luck!


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm designing the reverse trike EV with Ducati 1098 wheels, rear singlesided swingarm and Palatov front suspension. The body will be reversed, as well.


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