# Planning Porsche 914 conversion



## ricku425 (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi everyone! I'm basing this post off of the recommendations outlined in the "I want to build an EV! Where do I start?" thread by rbgrn.

My skill level with auto mechanics is very, very low. I have changed a battery, changed a tire, and I have changed my oil. Other than that, I wouldn't know a brake caliper from a flux capacitor. However, I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and am not scared or put off by the notion of taking apart a car. My level of fabrication is very high. I used to work in a machine shop (now in an office job) and welders, lathes, and mills are easy to come by.

My range is a quandary. I live less than 5 miles from work, and most everywhere I need to drive to is within 30 miles. However, I live in NW Indiana, and would love nothing more than to be able to drive to Chicago and back on a charge. Round trip is roughly 150 miles. Even further down on my 'like-to-have' list would be from home to Indianapolis, roughly 160~170 miles. I have family down there, and would be able to charge the car once I got there.

My performance is not that important. A sustainable speed of 65-70mph is sufficient. Most of the driving will be less than 35mph. The Chicago/Indy trips will happen very infrequently. As for acceleration, it would be sweet if it had Tesla-esque specs... there's just something to be said about what most people would call a street-legal golf cart leaving their window-shattering exhaust in the dust. But, I'm a realist and if its gotta be 0-60 in 30 seconds, that's what it'll have to be.

My budget for the project is still in a grey area. I figure the car will cost no more than $5,000, but after that, there are just so many options that can make the cost grow and grow. I'd love to use Li-ion/LiFe4Po, but do I really want to spend $30,000 for a battery? I'm just not sure yet.

Currently, I'm considering buying the Voltsporche AC conversion kit from Electro Automotive. I like the benefits I'd get from an AC system, and it seems as thought since I have very little automotive knowledge, it'd be nice to have an entire package delivered to my door that has everything I'd need to do the conversion. I'm very good at following instructions  However, I am somewhat put off by their website. It's not very... um... professional looking. Is the quality of their website reflective of the quality of their kits? Is $14,000 really worth it for someone with no experience?

So, I hope to be around for a while, asking questions, gaining knowledge, and just having fun!


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## Vwbeamer (Jun 16, 2008)

There is a couple of guys at 914world.com with electrics, you might ask over there.

I have 3 914's. I'm planning on building a hybrid version. Cost should be about 6K with Lithium Batteries and get 60 mpg. It would retain the stock engine with a cam change.

The 914's can get 40 mpg stock if tuned correctly. If you convert one to electric, it will never pay for it's self in fuel savings.


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## ricku425 (Jun 23, 2008)

Vwbeamer said:


> There is a couple of guys at 914world.com with electrics, you might ask over there.
> 
> I have 3 914's. I'm planning on building a hybrid version. Cost should be about 6K with Lithium Batteries and get 60 mpg. It would retain the stock engine with a cam change.
> 
> The 914's can get 40 mpg stock if tuned correctly. If you convert one to electric, it will never pay for it's self in fuel savings.


Okay, so I originally replied to your post with some bad math, so I deleted it.

Nonetheless, I don't want to build a hybrid version. I'm not interested in saving money on fuel, I'm interested in not having to _buy_ fuel. There are many cars out there that can be converted to electric, however, I chose the 914 because it seems as though it is one of the more popular choices. And, it looks pretty sweet, too.


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## Vwbeamer (Jun 16, 2008)

There are many reasons to build an electric car. I applaud those that do. 

I is just that people think they will save money by building one, yet very few will unless they want to go slow and not very far.


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## ricku425 (Jun 23, 2008)

Vwbeamer said:


> It is just that people think they will save money by building one, yet very few will unless they want to go slow and not very far.


We are on the cutting edge here! I remember when I bought my first CD player. It cost over $1,000 (that's early 80's dollars), and there were a total of 10 CD's available. All my friends said I was a fool because tapes would never die; their market was just too saturated and no one would spend the money to convert their music collection to CD.

There are many parallels with the CD/tape & electric/gas car:

CD availablity was limited because they were expensive to manufacture, and their technology is protected by patents, limiting manufactures.
Battery techonology is limited because they are expensive to manufacture, and their technology is protected by patents, limiting manufactures.


People listened to tapes because they were easy to come by and readily available. They rejected CD's becasue there were only 10 of them available.
People drive gas cars because it's easy to come by (now) and readily available (now). They reject electric cars because of their limited range and lack of 'electric' stations.


CD's were only found in the dens of the hobbiest audiophile because of their cost. You only got a CD if you really wanted to hear your music loud and clear.
Electric cars are only found in the garages of the hobbiest because of their cost. You only built an electric car if you really wanted to have one (too many reasons to list).


Advancements in technology lowered the price of CD's and players by roughly 7,000% (from $1K for a player to $15) and brought the DVD, and now BluRay DVD on the same sized medium.
Advancements in technology will lower the price of batteries, and battery technologies will continue to get smaller, cheaper, and more powerful.

Eventually, cars will have to run on alternate power sources, whether it's electric, hydrogen, or something else no one has thought of. Isn't it fun to be at the cutting edge of this? What an exciting time we live in!!


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

Great detail in your post. Excellent introduction.



ricku425 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm basing this post off of the recommendations outlined in the "I want to build an EV! Where do I start?" thread by rbgrn.
> 
> My skill level with auto mechanics is very, very low. I have changed a battery, changed a tire, and I have changed my oil. Other than that, I wouldn't know a brake caliper from a flux capacitor. However, I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and am not scared or put off by the notion of taking apart a car. My level of fabrication is very high. I used to work in a machine shop (now in an office job) and welders, lathes, and mills are easy to come by.
> 
> My range is a quandary. I live less than 5 miles from work, and most everywhere I need to drive to is within 30 miles.


No quandry here.



> However, I live in NW Indiana, and would love nothing more than to be able to drive to Chicago and back on a charge. Round trip is roughly 150 miles. Even further down on my 'like-to-have' list would be from home to Indianapolis, roughly 160~170 miles. I have family down there, and would be able to charge the car once I got there.
> 
> My performance is not that important. A sustainable speed of 65-70mph is sufficient. Most of the driving will be less than 35mph. The Chicago/Indy trips will happen very infrequently.


I think you've painted yourself into a corner. The bottom line is that range like that is simply either too heavy or too expensive to justify. Your local range is perfect.

The only possibility that makes sense (and maybe not even then) is towing an extra bank of lead acid batteries. Depending on your onboard system voltage maybe you could pull it off.

Another possibility is mapping out opportunity charging along the way. It'll make it a day trip with a 2-3 hour stop in the middle.

But truthfully everything in this scenario screams "Rent a gas car!".



> As for acceleration, it would be sweet if it had Tesla-esque specs... there's just something to be said about what most people would call a street-legal golf cart leaving their window-shattering exhaust in the dust. But, I'm a realist and if its gotta be 0-60 in 30 seconds, that's what it'll have to be.


That's not going to be a problem. Throw enough motor and voltage at the problem and you'll be fine.



> My budget for the project is still in a grey area. I figure the car will cost no more than $5,000, but after that, there are just so many options that can make the cost grow and grow. I'd love to use Li-ion/LiFe4Po, but do I really want to spend $30,000 for a battery? I'm just not sure yet.


You'll want to spend it if you can afford it. The real question is can you afford it?



> Currently, I'm considering buying the Voltsporche AC conversion kit from Electro Automotive. I like the benefits I'd get from an AC system, and it seems as thought since I have very little automotive knowledge, it'd be nice to have an entire package delivered to my door that has everything I'd need to do the conversion. I'm very good at following instructions  However, I am somewhat put off by their website. It's not very... um... professional looking. Is the quality of their website reflective of the quality of their kits? Is $14,000 really worth it for someone with no experience?


No clue. Anyone tried this package?



> So, I hope to be around for a while, asking questions, gaining knowledge, and just having fun!


Welcome. Good luck on your project.

ga2500ev


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## ricku425 (Jun 23, 2008)

ga2500ev said:


> Great detail in your post. Excellent introduction.


Thanks! 



ga2500ev said:


> I think you've painted yourself into a corner. The bottom line is that range like that is simply either too heavy or too expensive to justify. Your local range is perfect. ... The real question is can you afford it?


I agree, as does my wife. I think ultimately what will happen is that I'll convert the 914 to AC using inexpensive batteries (SLA or otherwise). When the price of LiFe4PO and other li-ion based technologies comes down, then I can upgrade the car and extend its range. Or just start the process over and sell the old 914  The 150 mile trips would really be sweet, but in reality, I should never _have_ to go over 30 miles round trip.

Again, what I'm seeking now is any advice on the Electro Automotive kits. I searched the forums here, and it seems people ask about them, but no one ever uses them (or if they have, they haven't posted a review).


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## Vwbeamer (Jun 16, 2008)

Again, i would post this question on 914world.com, as there are a couple of members there with real to life 914's that have been converted. There is a thread over there started by me on this very subject and member gave alink to his detailed blog on how he converted it. He uses the same motor and controller used in the AC kit.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

ricku425 said:


> Again, what I'm seeking now is any advice on the Electro Automotive kits. I searched the forums here, and it seems people ask about them, but no one ever uses them (or if they have, they haven't posted a review).


electro automotive has been around for 20+ years,check the evalbum.com site you will most likely find some one on there that has used their parts. just search for ev's with motors or controllers that are listed at electrauto.


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## Gozer (Jul 3, 2008)

Rick
I am in the same position exactly. My 914 should be hauled in next week to Delaware.
I am looking at the same kit, but many of the blogs have me rethinking. Electauto seems to have quality parts but difficult to get answers from. KTA has been recommended .
google"914 electric blog" , I think that is how I found them.

good luck

George


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Rick, I bought my setup from electroauto and even though they were slow the quality was excellent, Mine is not a 914 but I know of 1 person who did buy their 914 kit and was very happy. Ive had 914s ,they can be rust buckets, just make sure you get a good one.


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## ricku425 (Jun 23, 2008)

Gozer said:


> Rick
> I am in the same position exactly. My 914 should be hauled in next week to Delaware.
> I am looking at the same kit, but many of the blogs have me rethinking. Electauto seems to have quality parts but difficult to get answers from. KTA has been recommended .
> google"914 electric blog" , I think that is how I found them.
> ...


Good luck to you, George! I'm jealous!

I think the real draw for me is that I know _nothing_ about cars. I've read post after post about replacing the brakes with vacuum pumps, putting in better shocks, etc, etc. Although I'm totally willing to learn all this, it's nice from the perspective of a total noob in both the auto mechanic world and the EV world to be able to have it all provided in one big box. I also think it'd be much cheaper in the long run having someone provide all the stuff you need in one big box. For my next conversion, I'd be more comfortable doing it myself.

I love analogies, so I'll say that when I was learning electronics, it was a helluva lot easier/quicker to learn if you bought a Heath Kit than if you just bought a breadboard and a box of resistors and LEDs.


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## ricku425 (Jun 23, 2008)

O'Zeeke said:


> Rick, I bought my setup from electroauto and even though they were slow the quality was excellent, Mine is not a 914 but I know of 1 person who did buy their 914 kit and was very happy. Ive had 914s ,they can be rust buckets, just make sure you get a good one.


Thanks! That makes me feel more comfortable. I'm in the process of reading through two blogs by two blokes who did 914 conversions from Electro Automotive. They are offering some wonderful insight, and they make me want to get a car now!!!


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