# Patrick Roth's zx2EV project



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Ok, I couldn't wait for parts, so I got started.

I weighed car at local scales the day after purchase: 2500lbs curb (1600F/900R)

My conversion is a '98 Ford zx2 in fantastic condition with all the options. I started a website to document the process, have filmed my first video and have begun to dismantle the donor. All can be seen here:

http://www.cardomain.com:80/ride/3155482






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKaqRKZn2sQ

and I'll keep 'em coming!

Patrick
Indy


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

today:

took measurments of wheel wells, removed hood, removed most accessories that aren't staying.. kept log, took pics, weighed everything that was removed.. put up some components on craigslist to (hopefully) recoup a little cash! 

If you want to go into my EVproject email group, send me a pvt with your email address.

oh, one other thing...

*Gavin, thanks! This is pretty much all inspired by your website... well, ok, not the idea of having an EV, but certainly the rest of it!! *

You know what they say: Imitation is the highest form of flattery.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Patrick, looking forward to seeing the You Tube videos. Gavin is definitely an inspiration to many including myself. I'm gonna keep checking back on this thread to see your progress!

Josh


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Hey Patrick, looking forward to seeing the You Tube videos. Gavin is definitely an inspiration to many including myself. I'm gonna keep checking back on this thread to see your progress!
> 
> Josh


No kidding, Gavin's youtube videos inspired me to get back on the bandwagon after having abandoned my last two EV conversions nearly 10 years ago due to financial constraints. Now I have the truck AND I'm re-converting my scooter... it's addictive, I know this, because in the back of my mind I'm already thinking about how the heck I'm going to build a DRAGSTER... lol


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

That is one NICE looking little car. May I ask what you paid for the donor? I'm already thinking about my second one 


Ben in SC


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> That is one NICE looking little car. May I ask what you paid for the donor? I'm already thinking about my second one
> 
> 
> Ben in SC


$2500... Much more than I wanted to for a donor, but it is (was) in very good running condition and is EXTREMLY clean inside and out along with being fairly new and well optioned.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

It might be a case of the the blind leading the blind, but I am building a website along parallel lines.... with the goal to inspire the 'common person' to give conversion a shot. All I have to note is that the limiting skill so far was not the electronics (which I fear) but the welding and fabrication of battery racks and motor mounts, which I can handle....

IF you wanna have a look at my site for generic information, feel free, but since I am working on a different vehicle, the specifics won't apply.

anyway, have fun!

D


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> It might be a case of the the blind leading the blind, but I am building a website along parallel lines.... with the goal to inspire the 'common person' to give conversion a shot. All I have to note is that the limiting skill so far was not the electronics (which I fear) but the welding and fabrication of battery racks and motor mounts, which I can handle....
> 
> IF you wanna have a look at my site for generic information, feel free, but since I am working on a different vehicle, the specifics won't apply.
> 
> ...


Your site is great, terrific detail! I like the placement of the vacumn pump, may have to copy that.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

thanks... I was looking for a place for the vacuum pump that would not cause a lot of vibration. anyway, thae current project is to design the under-hood rack for two more batteries. I am pretty sure it is going to require a hood 'scoop' of some kind, but what the heck I am committed to the usgc8vgchx batteries.

d


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

update on day 2:

ok, well not a whole lot done today. Mainly just a bit more disassembly.. various pieces and hoses and brackets, etc.. Acutally, I keep looking at the engine and wondering if maybe I should pay a professional to take that out.. It would be much quicker and simpler. I wouldn't have to buy/rent a hoist, etc.. and since there is a neighborhood garage only one block away.. well, we'll see. I've never taken out an engine before and am feeling a bit intimidated by that part! 

latest tidbit: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3155482/3

STILL trying to place an order with KTA for the majority of my components... they must be very busy right now..


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I've never taken out an engine before and am feeling a bit intimidated by that part!



Taking an engine out is the easy part, it's putting one back in that's actually a little difficult  Don't sweat it, its the best way to get to know the car and it's actually the hardest "physical" part of the conversion. I had to use a lift to install my motor so I had to have one anyway.....


Ben


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Taking an engine out is the easy part.....
> 
> 
> Ben


haha!! so you say! Yeah, I'm sure I can do it.. eventually!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Actually, at this moment I'm starting to think that wiring all the 12v systems back up properly will be a bigger challenge than removing the engine was. While disassembling, I thought to myself "I know what I'm doing, I'll remember where each connector went" and didn't bother to label everything. GM color-codes the connectors, so it should be easy to figure it out later on, especially considering where the wiring connector lays on the frame of the vehicle.

Do yourself a favor... label everything as to where it came from. You can get a brother P-touch labeller brand new with 2 tape cartridges and enough battery to run it for a year or more on ebay for $30 with free shipping.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

yeah, that much I got covered, but I'm doing the cheapo route.. masking tape doubled over each wire!

actually.. can you think of any reason I would need the PCM post conversion??? someone offered to buy it off me.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Pat, you may want to give EV-America a call unless you're loyal to KTA.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

funny thing.. only about an hour after I posted today I got an email from Wistar Rhodes of KTA with this:

Advanced DC motor 203-06-4001A 1,411.00​ 
Curtis Controller 1221C-7401 1,050.00​ 

Albright SW-200B/3-13 Contactor 80.00​ 

GE Circuit breaker 162.00​ 

Switchplate 20.00​ 

Curits fuel gauge 225.00​ 

Magnacraft relay 16.00​ 

Waytek barrier strip 10.00​ 

Magna welding lugs 50.00​ 

Magna terminal clamp + 45.00​ 

Magna terminal clamp - 45.00​ 

Rubber clamp cover + 24.00​ 

Rubber clamp cover - 24.00​ 

Heat shrink + 15.00​ 

Heat shrink - 15.00​ 

Cable cutter, stripper, crimper 70.00​ 

Vacuum system 385.00​ 

Schematics, etc 0.00​ 

Total 3,777.00​ 

5% disc 188.50​ 

Shipping 260.00​ 
Grand total $3,848.15 

All ordered!  A word about the 5% discount. I used an hour's worth of consulting services from Ken Koch (formerly of KTA). You spend a few minutes talking about what you're converting, what you want out of it and Ken will give you an estimate of performance and a suggested parts list. That cost me $75. By doing that, I saved $188 off the cost of my order from KTA.

Now if I can just get that damned engine out!


oh btw... I'm getting gauges off eBay, and I'll try cheaper alternatives for the DC/DC and Charger.. and I can get cable locally much cheaper too!


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

I think they had to use shoehorns when they put the motor in my 1991 Saturn !! LOL!! J.W.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Allrighty! Well, I've had no bites at all on selling the good engine out of this donor (not even as a core to a rebuilder) so, after looking back at Gavin's vids, I've decided to just dismantle the darned thing. Hell, it'll be an interesting task for me since I've never done one, and I'm hoping it will make taking the thing out MUCH easier. I really want to leave the transmission in the car throughout this conversion!

Click on the link in my sig to see updates.. mostly just removed more and more stuff today. I'm not working on this full time - 3 or 4 hours a day on the days I can. But hey - gas tank is out for good! Also, a guy contacted me today who really wants to hang out for the project and help in any way he can. Best part, he has fabrication experience, mechanical experience and his Dad is a master welder!!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

There seems to be a lot of room under the floor at the mid rear of the car. Not sure what exactly your plans are, but I'm already seeing how the floor could be cut out and a battery box dropped in there.

Might want to spray some undercoating on those rust spots before wrapping everything up.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

leaving in the tranny may be more work later than taking it out,the alignment of the new couple and the adaptor plate is very prescision work I bolted mine together with the motor facing straight down with the tranny facing up. If you have the adaptor plate built and the coupler built from someone who has the exact dims you may luck out by leaving the tranny in all the way through it. ( but I doubt it)

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> There seems to be a lot of room under the floor at the mid rear of the car. Not sure what exactly your plans are, but I'm already seeing how the floor could be cut out and a battery box dropped in there.
> 
> Might want to spray some undercoating on those rust spots before wrapping everything up.


yeah, I plan on doing something with the rust.. it's odd that it's so rusts free except for a couple of pieces (they must be made of a different type of steel or something)

I thought about boxes below the rear seat, but I really want to keep the seating in tact and there is only about 8 inches or so of space.. not as much as it seems.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> leaving in the tranny may be more work later than taking it out,the alignment of the new couple and the adaptor plate is very prescision work I bolted mine together with the motor facing straight down with the tranny facing up. If you have the adaptor plate built and the coupler built from someone who has the exact dims you may luck out by leaving the tranny in all the way through it. ( but I doubt it)
> 
> Brian


I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Which makes it damned hard to work frankly.


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

What are you doing for the adaptor plate and coupler? Local fab?

Personally that part scares me a tad. I plan on buying them prefabbed for my gearbox and matched to my motor.

I think I will end up buying a welder and building my own battery boxes. I looked around a little, and decent welders are cheaper than I thought.

You said you're going with a 120V system. I'm curious about how you came to that. I hope to squeeze 144V in my Saturn, but I don't want to sacrifice amp hours to do it.

...and I must ask... Did you wash the ZX2 with Irish Spring? 'cause it looks _smooth as a baby's arse!_


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Rolls Kinardly said:


> What are you doing for the adaptor plate and coupler? Local fab?
> 
> Personally that part scares me a tad. I plan on buying them prefabbed for my gearbox and matched to my motor.


This is a pretty good explanation of one of the more common methods:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=DrE2jRghyO8&feature=related


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> This is a pretty good explanation of one of the more common methods:
> http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=DrE2jRghyO8&feature=related


that's sort of what I had in mind.. who is this coming from, do you know?? I wonder how much they charge for the setup they're talking about...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Rolls Kinardly said:


> What are you doing for the adaptor plate and coupler? Local fab?
> 
> Personally that part scares me a tad. I plan on buying them prefabbed for my gearbox and matched to my motor.
> 
> ...


I'm a man of many talents!





 
..the main reason I chose 120 v is simplicity... same voltage of my outlets.. Seems if you go over 120 everything gets more expensive. Plus I know a guy who has done many conversions and he does them all at 120. I've been in one of his coversions and it is plenty fast enough, with enough range, etc.

I did pay Ken of EV Consulting to do a quick analysis of my wants/needs and he verified that my 120v sys (and all related components) should work fine for my needs.. highway speeds when needed.. ~50 mile range, adequate acceleration. I just need it to be quick enough to keep up decently with traffic.. I have a prius, so I am no hotrodder.! (I save that for road rallies in my Miata!)


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## d-bledsoe (May 22, 2008)

If you read the more information about that video it looks like its coming from evamerica. That looks like a great way to do the adapter, and after seeing that, i may go that way wity my mx-3 conversion. Looking through the EVA catalog it looks like that adapter plate will run about 700$


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

d-bledsoe said:


> If you read the more information about that video it looks like its coming from evamerica. That looks like a great way to do the adapter, and after seeing that, i may go that way wity my mx-3 conversion. Looking through the EVA catalog it looks like that adapter plate will run about 700$


hmm.. surely I could have it made locally for less.. I finally decided the engine and tranny are coming out.. Just have the motor mounts left to unleash the beast! Taking the driveshafts out wasn't the newbie nightmare I had envisioned. Of course, I may say different trying to reinstall it all. lol!

Removed the exhaust, all fuel line, emission line, heat shields (there were four or five of 'em!) and got the driveshafts off and shift linkage undone.. All in all, a long day but some good progress!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

...and out she came!!!


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Thats one big chunk of metal! Did you buy or rent a lift? Was it really as bad as you thought it would be? 


Ben


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## d-bledsoe (May 22, 2008)

Nice work. Looks like we may be racing, i just pulled the smallest production v6 ever made out of my mazda MX-3 on satuday. My engine compartment looks quite similar to yours now. Now i just need to remove the fuel tank, lines, and the engine wiring harness.

-Derek


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Thats one big chunk of metal! Did you buy or rent a lift? Was it really as bad as you thought it would be?
> 
> 
> Ben


nah.. once I decided to go ahead and take the eng and tranny together like advised, it was just unbolting, unbolting, prying, etc.. The actual removal was very quick and easy. Life is so much simpler with the proper tools! Rented the engine hoist for 4hrs (min.) for less than $30... took longer to go get it and return it than the amount of time I actually used it. God love my Prius.. it's amazing what you can fit in that thing!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

d-bledsoe said:


> Nice work. Looks like we may be racing, i just pulled the smallest production v6 ever made out of my mazda MX-3 on satuday. My engine compartment looks quite similar to yours now. Now i just need to remove the fuel tank, lines, and the engine wiring harness.
> 
> -Derek


yup, all that is out on mine already.. 'cept for the engine wiring.. just got my wiring diagrams in the mail today!

edit: btw, most of what is coming out of the car is out (maybe a couple of very small things left) and I've removed 560lbs of weight! Better than I had hoped.


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

d-bledsoe said:


> If you read the more information about that video it looks like its coming from evamerica. That looks like a great way to do the adapter, and after seeing that, i may go that way wity my mx-3 conversion. Looking through the EVA catalog it looks like that adapter plate will run about 700$


Yes. I heard that New England accent, and figured that must be Bob Batson.  Then I saw the notes on the video on you tube and they say it is from the EV America documentation.

The price does seem high for what it is, but it isn't a part you want to go cheap on, either. Certainly a local machine shop could build something similar, but I would make sure they understand how the part will be used and that precision is critical.

My disassembly starts next weekend.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Removed clutch, clutch assembly, flywheel - measured magic # (though I won't be using clutch). Cleaned tranny inside/out... coming along. I believe my motor at least is on the way, so I want to be ready for it.


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## jb_elec (Sep 9, 2008)

d-bledsoe said:


> Nice work. Looks like we may be racing, i just pulled the smallest production v6 ever made out of my mazda MX-3 on satuday. My engine compartment looks quite similar to yours now. Now i just need to remove the fuel tank, lines, and the engine wiring harness.
> 
> -Derek


What you planning on going with for batteries? AGM? flooded lead acid? I am curious about the total cost of this once it's closer to being finished

: : off topic : : Please post pictures of this conversion. I also have an mx-3 that's had a lot of work done it it and was thinking about doing a conversion on mine.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

jb_elec said:


> What you planning on going with for batteries? AGM? flooded lead acid? I am curious about the total cost of this once it's closer to being finished
> 
> : : off topic : : Please post pictures of this conversion. I also have an mx-3 that's had a lot of work done it it and was thinking about doing a conversion on mine.


Click on the link in my sig line for the website of the conversion. There are also lots of pics and info in the garage section here.

Batts will be 15 Interstate flooded 8v(U8VGC), 170 Ah capacity @ 20hrs. Total weight 975lbs.. quoted price $1500.00 
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/content/product_info/golf_f.asp?js=1

I am trying to keep my conversion budget at $7,500.00. It'll be tight to stay on budget.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Rolls Kinardly said:


> Yes. I heard that New England accent, and figured that must be Bob Batson.  Then I saw the notes on the video on you tube and they say it is from the EV America documentation.
> 
> The price does seem high for what it is, but it isn't a part you want to go cheap on, either. Certainly a local machine shop could build something similar, but I would make sure they understand how the part will be used and that precision is critical.
> 
> My disassembly starts next weekend.


That price isn't as crazy as you would think. I designed my coupler and plates myself, and the materials and machine work came to $525, and about 6 months of work. And that's with a $200 cash discount the shop gave my because I am a dirt poor college student. I would have bought that system from EV of America, but I have an automatic and no one in their right mind will touch one. (I am not in my right mind, and with any luck I never will be)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

...cleaned up the motor compartment today. Nothing too exciting, but had to be done. UPS seems to have a 127lb package scheduled to be delivered to me tomorrow.. my motor?!?


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> UPS seems to have a 127lb package scheduled to be delivered to me tomorrow.. my motor?!?


That was quick... I need to stop by and have a look-see in person. 

I'm determined to get some disassembly done this weekend despite having a family function to attend. I'm starting to feel left behind (but not in a Tim LaHaye sort of way...) !


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Did someone say Christmas?!?.. but uh.. should I be concerned that it says 72-96v when I have a 120v system planned?


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> Did someone say Christmas?!?.. but uh.. should I be concerned that it says 72-96v when I have a 120v system planned?


Nice motor! No, you shouldn't be concerned at all about the voltage label. My ADC K99-4007 says 48 volts, but the motor is designed for up to 96 volts, which is what I am going to use it at.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> should I be concerned that it says 72-96v when I have a 120v system planned?



SHINY!... No, no need to be concerned at all. Some people put well beyond 120v into these motors. The more volts, the more amps, the less lifetime of wear items, but 120v is no issue for that motor.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

No problem at all. Some use 144 volt systems with that (very nice) motor. Also remember that the harder you push the car, the more voltage drop you will see. There's nothing wrong with anticipating that drop by using slightly higher system voltage and its common practice to do exactly that.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

well the motor and transmission are off to the machinist for the coupler.. 

more videos and info updated on webpage, click cardomain link below


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

DC/DC converter and charger arrived today.. 

http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/bc-qc-op-120-fslash-10.htm
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/cv-hwz-120-12-300.htm

$645.39 w/ shipping.. Trying to save a few hundred here from the cost of the Zivan alternatives. Will let you know how they work out.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

will 25 amps be enough for the car????? are you using AC? My car bare bones with lights on heater fan on and a blinker will draw 32 + amps,,, as long as you are not there very long and the 12 battery is big enough you will be OK I am sure. My 12 VDC battery is only 10AH.

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> will 25 amps be enough for the car????? are you using AC? My car bare bones with lights on heater fan on and a blinker will draw 32 + amps,,, as long as you are not there very long and the 12 battery is big enough you will be OK I am sure. My 12 VDC battery is only 10AH.
> 
> Brian


I won't have AC... decided against it as it wasn't working properly in the ICE.. 

You know, I was concerned that 25amps wouldn't be enough, but the guy at beepscom assured me I'd be fine. Bottom line, it's cheap enough to make it worth the try! If I end up needing a bigger one, no big deal really.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I won't have AC... decided against it as it wasn't working properly in the ICE..
> 
> You know, I was concerned that 25amps wouldn't be enough, but the guy at beepscom assured me I'd be fine. Bottom line, it's cheap enough to make it worth the try! If I end up needing a bigger one, no big deal really.


what size is your 12 volt battery for the car???

also if the conertor is not not big enough you can get a second one and add it in parallel to the existing one and double your out put


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> what size is your 12 volt battery for the car???
> 
> also if the conertor is not not big enough you can get a second one and add it in parallel to the existing one and double your out put


hmmm... that could work if it ends up not being big enough... 50amps should be plenty.. I was thinking of just using the battery that was in the car.. not a good idea?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> hmmm... that could work if it ends up not being big enough... 50amps should be plenty.. I was thinking of just using the battery that was in the car.. not a good idea?


that will be OK

but usually an easy way to drop several pounds of weight with a much smaller battery


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Now I am concerned  My DC/DC is only 21 amps. 
I had planned on using the stock battery for accessories or replace with a AGM battery of about 40AH. Perhaps I will have to replace all the lamps with LED type
I have heard so many different ways of dealing with the 12 volt, including separate charger for 12 volt and no DC/DC at all.
I guess whatever gets the job done..


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> Now I am concerned  My DC/DC is only 21 amps.
> I had planned on using the stock battery for accessories or replace with a AGM battery of about 40AH. Perhaps I will have to replace all the lamps with LED type
> I have heard so many different ways of dealing with the 12 volt, including separate charger for 12 volt and no DC/DC at all.
> I guess whatever gets the job done..


Much of it depends on the size of the battery you plan to use for the 12 volt system of the car. A large enough battery can be charged seperatly and if you do not do to much night driving it will probably be OK, The advantage of a dc convertor is you will never run out of power and the draw on the traction pack is not very high, for example 21 amps at 12 vdc out put is 252 watts out put not that the dc convertor is 100% efficient but lets say it is for this example if your traction pack is 120 volts you will be using just over 2 amps of current from the pack to supply the power to your 12 volt system,,,, pretty insignificant all things considered.

Brian


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey Patrick, your EV's coming along nicely mate! That motor's almost in! Looking forward to the first motor test spin!


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

My DC/DC is 55 amp and I used the same battery as Brian. I havent really tested it yet but Brians comments on his thread have me worried as right now I have my DC/DC on the batt side of my contactors. Now that I have that SLA I want to move it to the controller side so its only on when the system is on to stop battery drain.

Just some thoughts as I'm working on that system now......


Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> My DC/DC is 55 amp and I used the same battery as Brian. I havent really tested it yet but Brians comments on his thread have me worried as right now I have my DC/DC on the batt side of my contactors. Now that I have that SLA I want to move it to the controller side so its only on when the system is on to stop battery drain.
> 
> Just some thoughts as I'm working on that system now......
> 
> ...


I have heard that some do the dc convertor on the traction pack and don't even use a 12 volt battery,,, Iguess it will not draw hardly any current at idle? I am not going to do it but????? It would be interesting to see if ya did,, although if you have a seperate battery that it is responsible to charge the voltage would be to high(probably) as in "float" mode I do not think you would want more than 13.7 max,, and if the dc conv was set that low it may not fully charge the 12 volt battery,, hence the reason it should be on the contactor side or don't use the 12 v battery at all.

Just my thoughts,,, also Ben that battery didn't hold up so well for me ,, did ya notice how light it was???

Brian


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

rctous said:


> also Ben that battery didn't hold up so well for me ,, did ya notice how light it was???
> 
> Brian



I sure did and the fact that my car has a little more voltage requirement than yours worries me. I may have to go back to the original, although smaller 12V car battery. It's mounted in the rear of the car so luckily room won't be an issue.

Ben


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> I sure did and the fact that my car has a little more voltage requirement than yours worries me. I may have to go back to the original, although smaller 12V car battery. It's mounted in the rear of the car so luckily room won't be an issue.
> 
> Ben


not sure thats necessary I just think tha batteies we got were a bit how do I say" cheasy" I don't doubt that a 60 dollar version would have worked just fine,, Sorry man!!!

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

the original battery from my car is actually pretty small for a car battery... haven't weighed it yet, but at least it's not too big


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

Silly question... How are you weighing the parts you're removing?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Rolls Kinardly said:


> Silly question... How are you weighing the parts you're removing?


common bathroom scale... so far, no single item has been over its 300lb limit (I had disassembled some of the engine before I finally took it out).


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> common bathroom scale... so far, no single item has been over its 300lb limit (I had disassembled some of the engine before I finally took it out).


I have not been weighing individual stuff... but did get readings at each wheel 'before' and plan to get an 'after'. I used two cheap dial bathroom scales with a particle board platform between to split the weight. My little Swift was right at the limit of what the scales were rated for... so a larger vehicle might require 3 scales.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I have not been weighing individual stuff... but did get readings at each wheel 'before' and plan to get an 'after'. I used two cheap dial bathroom scales with a particle board platform between to split the weight. My little Swift was right at the limit of what the scales were rated for... so a larger vehicle might require 3 scales.


I think I've seen a picture of that! I did take the car to some truck scales when I first bought it - one of the advantages to buying a good running vehicle as a donor. I plan to weigh it again on the same scales once I'm finished. Actually, I thought I was being optimistic in estimating a 500lb reduction before conversion. Total weight removed to date is 591lbs... I'm looking around for another 9 lbs!!

Since my battery pack should weigh in at 975.. I'm adding 225 in "other" parts (motor, controller, etc..) for a total of 1200lbs added - this should leave me with only adding a net of about 600lbs during the conversion. Not too bad really, considering I'm using flooded 8v batteries.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok.. so I picked up my coupler today and it is VERY GOOD work! Looks fantastic, fits great, etc... paid $225, a reasonable price I think. 





 
But I'm having issues with the adapter plate. Have to have it done by a different place and have taken it to two different machinists. Both have estimated a MINIMUM of $800... what up with that?

Any suggestions guys?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Look at his first post here , he got a Hell of a deal not sure what you would need to send though but they did an awesome job for him. And Cheap as well

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/got-my-adapter-and-coupler-19676.html

Brian


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ...two different machinists. Both have estimated a MINIMUM of $800... what up with that?
> 
> Any suggestions guys?


call up CanEV.com and see if they have it in stock. maybe they will cut you a deal since you have your own coupler.

d


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm thinking of tryin to make this myself.. here's my thoughts - you guys tell me if it sounds right.

1. Get a transfer punch the right diameter for the bellhousing bolt holes. Lay tranny flat on 1/2" 6061 15"x15" aluminum plate and trace outline with Sharpie. Use transfer punch to mark dead center of each bolt hole. Use drill press to drill out holes. 

2. Get my machinist to make a piece that fits over the end of the transmission input shaft perfectly with a punch point dead center on other end. Attach to shaft (it will extend beyond bellhousing), attach plate to housing with tranny bolts just tight enough to mark dead center of tranny shaft.

3. Use shaft punch mark to lay out placement of motor bolt holes and "inner circle" for motor shaft/coupler to fit through with compass. Use drill press for motor bolt holes.

4. Take to _someone_ to have "inner circle" and perimeter outline cut.

How's that sound? Could I cut 1/2" aluminum plate with a normal jigsaw with a metal cutting blade or is it too thick?


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ok.. so I picked up my coupler today and it is VERY GOOD work! Looks fantstic, fits great, etc... paid $225, a reasonable price I think.
> 
> But I'm having issues with the adapter plate. Have to have it done by a different place and have taken it to two different machinists. Both have estimated a MINIMUM of $800... what up with that?
> 
> Any suggestions guys?


The only reason they priced it high is because they don't want to do it. If they did they would make a killing on it at that price. Lots of times, welders or other trades bid to cover there butts. It does not work out for us very well but its always best to go with someone who does ev adapters. I am sure there is someone with the same set up as yours, its a ford.  I know that does not help but it gives you an idea. By the way your progress is going good love the youtube vids.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I'm thinking of tryin to make this myself.. here's my thoughts - you guys tell me if it sounds right.
> 
> 1. Get a transfer punch the right diameter for the bellhousing bolt holes. Lay tranny flat on 1/2" 6061 15"x15" aluminum plate and trace outline with Sharpie. Use transfer punch to mark dead center of each bolt hole. Use drill press to drill out holes.
> 
> ...



not sure exactly what you are trying here but the way I did it I thought was very simple. make the adaptor plate for the tranny be sure to have at least 2 perfectly done line up pins. Cut a center hole where you believe the tranny shaft will be ( just get close) and oversize the hole by a bit. Bolt the adaptor plate to the tranny and position it so the plate is horizontal and flat. get all thread and cut small 1-1/2" long to fit the 4 motor mount bolt holes, thread them in but leave at least 1/2" sticking out. (this is how you willl mark the plate later.) Now hang your motor vertically from a cherry picker upside down with the coupler attached to it facing the tranny shaft. Lower the motor down and line it up through the hole in the plate you made, let the couple slide down over the tranny shaft. let the motor rest on the adaptor plate. Now the part you need to be carful with but we need to add 12 vdc to the motor to get it rotating. Once the motor rotates a few times it lines itself up perfectly, ( This was very easy , not scary but you should have help to hold the motor (I did it alone) there is no real drama her it just sounds like there might be but there isn't. once you have established the motor turns the tranny nice and smooth you can mark the 4 holes to mount the motor. Be sure to rotate the motor to the right position in reference to the tranny for the final way it will sit in the car.

Did this make sence? It worked perfectly for me. I guess I forgot to mention that this works with a basic couple not a clutch system (unless you used a couple as a line up tool.)

Brian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

waldoz said:


> The only reason they priced it high is because they don't want to do it. If they did they would make a killing on it at that price. Lots of times, welders or other trades bid to cover there butts.


Well I am a wielder and I'm afraid you are correct. There are some projects that we will overprice because its not a standard item of us. Most of what we do is railings, so if some one wants a complete staircase out of aluminum we will price it farily high because it would cut into our normal bread and butter and we are not well tooled for that. Machine shops around here act on the same principle, but can take it to an extreme.

We don't mind doing small odd jobs and battery trays are not a big deal for ANY metal shop to make unless there is lots of sheet metal involved but even then its not that big a deal. Large out of the ordinary jobs I like to avoid when ever possible though, in the case of that staircase, he was expecting something comparable in cost to wood construction, which was not going to happen.

There are the exceptions to the rule though, and I was able to find a backyard machinist when I needed some custom machining done on an engine rebuild earlier this year.

Look for smaller shops that do lots of local work and are not snobs when it comes to dealing with smaller local customers. The problem is often they will charge an hourly rate, so if its the first time they make something like that up, they will take longer and might even drag their feet on purpose. Worst part is you have no idea what the price will be in the end. Ask for a writen price quote *before* letting them do the work and do not give a deposite. If the shop is worth its salt, those terms will not be a problem for them.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

patrick if you want to call me I could explain it better perhaps on the phone, I have never been a very good typer. There is no reason that you could not do this yourself.

800-728-6976

Brian


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

david85 said:


> Well I am a wielder and I'm afraid you are correct. There are some projects that we will overprice because its not a standard item of us. Most of what we do is railings, so if some one wants a complete staircase out of aluminum we will price it farily high because it would cut into our normal bread and butter and we are not well tooled for that. Machine shops around here act on the same principle, but can take it to an extreme.
> 
> .


I was a welder for 13 yrs, now a design drafter.. Glad to hear there are other trades guys around here.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> I'm thinking of tryin to make this myself.. here's my thoughts - you guys tell me if it sounds right.
> 
> 1. Get a transfer punch the right diameter for the bellhousing bolt holes. Lay tranny flat on 1/2" 6061 15"x15" aluminum plate and trace outline with Sharpie. Use transfer punch to mark dead center of each bolt hole. Use drill press to drill out holes.
> 
> ...


Your idea sounds reasonable, there is a few ways to do this apparently.
My plate was 3/4 inch and I was able to cut it with a sawsall, not sure a jigsaw wouldn't overheat. I ground the back side of a blade to make it thinner and able to cut a radius easier. I don't have the luxury of a plasma cutter


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

waldoz said:


> I was a welder for 13 yrs, now a design drafter.. Glad to hear there are other trades guys around here.


That sounds like what I do. CAD drawing for each job, build it then install it. Mig and Tig wielding often on the same job. Only been at it for 6 years though. Pays the bills, and gives access to some pretty cool material and equipment suppliers.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

A jigsaw will work but take your time and don't force the blade or it could jamb on you (not fun with a jig saw LOL). Might also try using a cutting fluid if the blade tends to snag or get hot. It will make a mess, but there might not be much choice.

Plasma cutter would be luxury, and a standing bandsaw is the next best thing. If you have strait cuts to do (to get the rough size) a circular saw will also work if you get a blade with carbide teath. Just secure it very well to a work table, advance slowly and use full face protection, because those aluminum pieces are really hot when they fly off a high speed saw blade.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> patrick if you want to call me I could explain it better perhaps on the phone, I have never been a very good typer. There is no reason that you could not do this yourself.
> 
> 800-728-6976
> 
> Brian


actually, I think I totally get what you are saying.. I was just worried that it wouldn't be exact *ENOUGH*. But after looking at the engine block this afternoon, I had a "duh" moment.. there is a spacer (?) on the block that is maybe a mm thick that is the same basic profile of the bellhousing and has all the same bolt holes in it.. Importantly, the wholes for the dowel pins are *exactly* the right size of the dowels. Soooooo, if I managed to drill the holes in the plate for the dowels perfectly, they would hold it exactly where it needs to be over the bellhousing and the other bolt holes could be drilled in the right spot.. I could then measure from dowel to dowel and up (it's a bit off that line) to the center of the tranny inpu shaft. From there, I could follow your directions to find the proper places to drill for the motor holes.

sound right?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I don't see a problem with that. Lots of guys just use a drill press and some careful measurements to make the adapter plate. Probably all I will do if I can ever find a good donor.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I made my plates with a drill press and jigsaw. The plates were 3/4 inch and 1/2 inch plates and the jigsaw cut threw both at the same time very easily with this special metal blade (that I will find later and post) and some cutting wax.

The cuts aren't machine shop quality, but they work.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

here's a pic of the coupler I had made, very nice! and a pic of the motor and tranny held together by coupler.. I've decided to go ahead and try to make adapter myself, thanks so much for the good advice guys!


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> here's a pic of the coupler I had made, very nice! and a pic of the motor and tranny held together by coupler.. I've decided to go ahead and try to make adapter myself, thanks so much for the good advice guys!


 
If I may ask how much was the coupler to have the work done?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

waldoz said:


> If I may ask how much was the coupler to have the work done?


$225 for the coupler.. there's a short video of the coupler on page 6 of my cardomain site 

for the adapter plate, I ordered 6061 aluminum plate online from a company called speedymetals.com 1 piece 1/2"x14"x14.25" and 1 piece 1/2"x8"x8" $89.99 with shipping - should be here by Tuesday


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I made some battery mock-ups today to see where I can fit them all.. Gee, big difference when you see them full size instead of just measuring space! The suckers are big. 10.25"W 7.125"D 11.33"H Good thing I'm only doing 15 8v instead of 20 6v. I don't know where I'd put 20 batts and still be able to have a back seat.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Very nice progress, Patrick!

I got a chance to sit down and watch your videos the other night. Great job!


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## phordzx2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Careful that the transmission isn't in gear if you spin the electric motor or you'll drop the spider gears out on the zx2 transmission. The shadetree fix when pulling the axles and trans is to put a small dowel, wire, broom handle, whatever you have through the diff (axle holes) to help hold them in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfo8vfIMYhA


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

phordzx2 said:


> Careful that the transmission isn't in gear if you spin the electric motor or you'll drop the spider gears out on the zx2 transmission. The shadetree fix when pulling the axles and trans is to put a small dowel, wire, broom handle, whatever you have through the diff (axle holes) to help hold them in.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfo8vfIMYhA


hmm.. that really concerns me as I have not been able to get it to go into neutral. Just turning the input shaft by hand and moving the "lever"? on the tranny into different "clicks" I still get the gears moving.. no matter what position I put it in. Know how I can shift it into neutral now that it is out of the car?

I joined a zx2 forum to ask these kind of questions and was warned to do something to prevent them from falling out when I removed the drive shafts, but then a Ford mechanic told me "nothing" would fall out if I removed the shafts...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

so just to make myself feel more confident about this adapter plate, I bought some 1/2" particle board to make a mockup. Hey, it worked well with the batteries! Only thing I haven't done yet is test fit the motor because I ran out of time.. but I think this will be MUCH easier than I was anticipating! Ok.. aluminum is a bit more difficult to cut than particle board, but you get the idea.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Now you have a nice template to make the Aluminum plate
You could make 2 and sell the other to offset your project.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> hmm.. that really concerns me as I have not been able to get it to go into neutral. Just turning the input shaft by hand and moving the "lever"? on the tranny into different "clicks" I still get the gears moving.. no matter what position I put it in. Know how I can shift it into neutral now that it is out of the car?
> 
> I joined a zx2 forum to ask these kind of questions and was warned to do something to prevent them from falling out when I removed the drive shafts, but then a Ford mechanic told me "nothing" would fall out if I removed the shafts...


there may just be some free spining going on be sure to hold the output shaft so it can't move while turning the inpit shaft, then try a variety of positions


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> there may just be some free spining going on be sure to hold the output shaft so it can't move while turning the inpit shaft, then try a variety of positions


I knew there was a reason I liked you Brian; you're very smart in a "common sense" sort of way... lol 

That worked perfectly. And I totally see what he meant about putting a dowel down through there to make sure the gears don't fall in.. also works perfectly. 

One slight problem, I guess I didn't measure for my spacer acurately enough... not enough room with the two 1/2" alum plates.. nead about 3/16" more. I'll look for spacers tomorrow at the hardware store, or just use two short pieces of aluminum bar (two across top two motor bolt holes - two across bottom two)

btw.. the rest of my stuff came from KTA! All set to get this sucker put back together.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

excellent news all the way around


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Cut my motor plate/spacer (and extra needed spacers from aluminum bar), drilled out all holes on adapter plate.. both fit very snugly to their respective parts.. All I have to do know is connect them via the coupler, give the motor some juice and find the perfect spot for the two plates to be joined. Then trim outer edge of adapter plate, drill holes to bolt them together and maybe have them welded for added security.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

You are one bad dude with a jigsaw!!  Hate to see what I would do with a piece of aluminum plate and a jigsaw!! Looking very good Patrick.

Jack


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I remeber those DAYS of jigsawing my plates... Stupid DeWalt batteries only lasted a few inches of cutting before needing hours of recharge. It didn't help that I have 1.25 inches of aluminum to cut through.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Nice Job Patrick! 
In the true spirit of DIY, make it in the garage.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok.. call me dense, but I just noticed that we have this cool little "youtube" button as an option. So I went back through this thread and added any and all pertinent videos. Plus a bonus one from a few years back. Extra points to those who look for it!

Have I mentioned how much I really like this forum?!?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I got my spacer bolted to motor, adapter bolted to tranny, placed motor and coupler on tranny and added some 12v juice. Spins great, but has an ever so slight vibration that goes away when I put a little pressure on one side of the motor (which seems to lift spacer plate off adapter plate by ~.5mm at one corner...) 

My guess is that when I miscalculated the spacing, I added 1/4" by stacking two strips of 3/4"x1/8" aluminum bar and that those stacked bars are not as accurate as they need to be.. I'm going to bolt everything together as tight as possible and try again with the current (since I've already drilled alignment holes through spacer and adapter plate), then if it still has a vibration (which I'm pretty sure it will), I will ditch the aluminum bar spacers and get a 1/4" 8x8 aluminum plate to replace them and see if that fixes my problem.

How fast do you think my 8" motor spins @ 12v w/ no load? I'm sure whatever issue I have at this speed will be increased exponentially at 6k rpm! Still, I think this is a minor obstacle I can overcome.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Alright, I need a little help with this.. took everything apart, put everything back together, gave it 12v of juice.. and I can't feel any vibration in any gear.. but how much noise should it make??? Keep in mind the tranny has no fluid in it. It's not screeching or whining or anything like that, but the tranny certainly isn't silent. 

Am I just being paranoid? I'd hate to put it all back together and get it all basically finished only to find out it's not right!

edit: tried it again this morning after looking at vids of other first startup.. Doesn't seem any louder than others.. motor does not vibrate at all.. when I lay my hand on the transmission, I can feel slight vibration/movement.. I just don't know if this is normal with all the spinning going on inside (without fluid also).... again, no unusual noise like squealing or grinding.. 

Any thoughts guys?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok.. my backyard test and solution to my fear was this: (in the true spirit of DIY)

unbolted everything and removed motor, adapter, spacer

laid two 1x2's across bellhousing (level) and set motor face on boards w/ coupler attached to tranny shaft

gave it juice


When I did this, it sounded and felt exactly the same as with the adapter in place. I know it's crude, but I think it's effective in at least allaying my fears about the noise I was hearing. All I need to do now is trim the outline of the bellhousing from the adapter plate, locktite all the bolts and put this sucker in the car.


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

One of the complaints I hear from EVers after conversions is that they start hearing all of the other squeeks and sounds in their car. A louder than anticipated transmission is a common one. If you have no vibration in any gear, you're doing great. I'd bolt it up and put it back into the car. It will probably get much quieter under your hood with some oil in it. I'm sure the road noise will help hide the sound of the tranny as well.

Good luck!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Well right or wrong.. it's done for now! I'll go rent a hoist again for a couple of hours on Monday and get this back in.. here's a pic of it finished anyway.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Of course I couldn't wait for the tool rental shop to open on Monday for the hoist, and we had a reinforced hook right over the motor bay from our old Jeep hardtop, so I went ahead and cranked that sucker in there! I got the shafts, wheels, crossmembers, etc all put back together. Once I reconnected the shift linkage, I put it in neutral and gave it some juice (just for shits and giggles). It is MUCH quieter in the car (and in neutral)! 

Here's one question/observation/thought though... I was careful to measure the height of the tranny bellhousing and passenger side 1/2 shaft before I disassembled the car.. and now they are higher than they were. I was vexed by this for a while, but I've come to this conclusion: since the motor mounts and roll controllers are all flexible rubber, the extra weight of that engine isn't pushing the whole assembly down anymore. It's only off by about an inch, and everything is level and lined up well... Anyone else have this issue?

My guess is that since it's all flexible enough to bounce up and down a bit, the fact that's off a little now that it's lighter shouldn't hurt anything. I guess I'll know for sure after driving it a bit. Next step is having the passenger side custom motor mount fabricated. I'm NOT going to attempt to do that myself!


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

Have you had any problems with the main car harness at all? I am thinking about doing a 2001 saturn sc2 and wonder how much of a pain the newer cars are with all the extra wires. Thanks for any imput on this.
Chris


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Probably the difference in weight, you probably lost 300 pounds from the ICE.
Not going to try to build the mount? probably can modify some part of the old mount
Good deal on getting it installed, always a good feeling making progress


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

waldoz said:


> Have you had any problems with the main car harness at all? I am thinking about doing a 2001 saturn sc2 and wonder how much of a pain the newer cars are with all the extra wires. Thanks for any imput on this.
> Chris


 
well it's all just hanging there at this point.. I will probably end up cutting off any wires that aren't used. Hell, I'll probably shave another 5-10 pounds from unused wiring and cpu's...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> Probably the difference in weight, you probably lost 300 pounds from the ICE.
> Not going to try to build the mount? probably can modify some part of the old mount
> Good deal on getting it installed, always a good feeling making progress


I'd love to, but I have absolutely no idea how to weld. You know, I will take a look at it though and see if there's any of it I _can_ do just to keep some bragging rights to the whole thing. So far, the only thing I've had done outside my garage was the coupler (and well worth the money too!)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

here's video 8


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

my attempt at a motor mount model... slow going.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> Here's one question/observation/thought though... I was careful to measure the height of the tranny bellhousing and passenger side 1/2 shaft before I disassembled the car.. and now they are higher than they were. I was vexed by this for a while, but I've come to this conclusion: since the motor mounts and roll controllers are all flexible rubber, the extra weight of that engine isn't pushing the whole assembly down anymore. It's only off by about an inch, and everything is level and lined up well... Anyone else have this issue?
> 
> My guess is that since it's all flexible enough to bounce up and down a bit, the fact that's off a little now that it's lighter shouldn't hurt anything. I guess I'll know for sure after driving it a bit. Next step is having the passenger side custom motor mount fabricated. I'm NOT going to attempt to do that myself!


The only issue you may have is the axles not going in far enough ( since the motor is an inche higher it will shorten the length) and worse yet popping out when the car is lifted off the ground or getting serious air when driving,, probably enough give in the 1/2 shaft but just be sure there is.

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> The only issue you may have is the axles not going in far enough ( since the motor is an inche higher it will shorten the length) and worse yet popping out when the car is lifted off the ground or getting serious air when driving,, probably enough give in the 1/2 shaft but just be sure there is.
> 
> Brian


lol.. thanks.. hadn't cosidered that! Now I have to spend a couple of hours in front of the car pondering that little scenario.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> lol.. thanks.. hadn't cosidered that! Now I have to spend a couple of hours in front of the car pondering that little scenario.


That could be a big scenario well worth pondering,, as well if the motor/tranny is not exactly centered where it was originally one side may be long and the other too short. I was lucky on both accounts. 

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> That could be a big scenario well worth pondering,, as well if the motor/tranny is not exactly centered where it was originally one side may be long and the other too short. I was lucky on both accounts.
> 
> Brian


Well the zx2 has a motor mount on the tranny end and then two roll mounts that bolt directly to the tranny and then to a front/rear crossmember. All those components are right back where they started; the only thing that _could _be off is perhaps the angle of the tranny (thought I can't imagine it could be off by that much). I'm sort of operating on the assumption that the bellhousing should be perpendicular to the floor. Of course, I haven't put the wheels back on and set it on the floor yet.. but even then, with the difference in weight, it won't sit exactly where it was.


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hello Patrick.

Like your videos.

You took some measurements before removing the engine. So here are my questions.

Could you have made a mistake? No, Ok.

Now if the difference is rubber mounts not being crushed and if you think that is important. Can you shave them? They don't need to absorb as much weight. The battery rack will not rest on them right?

Also your car is on jacks right now, in effect getting a lot of air time. I think your shafts should be fine. But check anyway.

take care,

DP


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

e_canuck said:


> Hello Patrick.
> 
> Like your videos.
> 
> ...


Thanks; I'm really just copying kiwiev on all that (and not as well!)

You know, my first thought was "did I make a mistake when I measured?", but there's no way to know now. And I do plan on putting the wheels back on and setting it back down today to see if that makes measurements any different. Plus the passenger side axle has a mount that needs to be fabricated. When done, it will keep the axle from moving up or down or side to side. I have a jack sitting under the motor right now just for added protection, but perhaps I have it raised to high... since there is obviously play in all the existing mounts. I'll spend some more time on this before I move on.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

update... I was looking through my conversion pictures and noticed that I took a picture of the measurement of the driveshaft.. Anyway, if the picture is to be believed (meaning if I had it actually lined up properly and not just sitting there for the camera) then I DID make a mistake when I wrote down the measurement and it is fine! So, oddly, here's to hoping I fu*#$d up!


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## kugmo (Oct 31, 2008)

cant wait and see how this looks like in the final stages...


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> update... I was looking through my conversion pictures and noticed that I took a picture of the measurement of the driveshaft.. Anyway, if the picture is to be believed (meaning if I had it actually lined up properly and not just sitting there for the camera) then I DID make a mistake when I wrote down the measurement and it is fine! So, oddly, here's to hoping I fu*#$d up!


But you're still going to double check it, right?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> But you're still going to double check it, right?


unfortunately, there's really no way to know at this point (I'm not about to put the block back in just to remeasure!). I took three measurements -the top of tranny to a fixed point, edge of tranny to frame rail, top of 1/2 shaft to a fixed point.

I've put the wheels back on, lowered car to ground and the 1/2 shaft is parallel to ground. Edge of tranny to rail is correct, top of tranny to fixed point is correct and distance from top of 1/2 shaft to fixed point is same as in photo before deconstruction (but still off 1" from what I wrote down).

So all I can do at this point is proceed as if it is in the correct position. Honestly, now that the tranny is back in, I don't see any way that the measurement I wrote down could have been correct. There's just no way to make that shaft a full inch lower. I had to have written 21-5/8 when I _meant_ 20-5/8. And to be honest, I kinda have a habit of doing that. Disconnect from brain to hand I guess.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

spent 1/2 the day running around trying to get a custom ps pressure line built only to have EVERY place tell me that can't do it with zx2 (read: mazda) ps fittings... I am researching with other's who have done Mazdas what they did..

I did some busy work in the garage afterwards.. cut out the trunk floor for the rear battery rack, made a template for the MR2 ps pump bracket, installed oulet in trunk for charger and maybe vent fan.. built an enclosure for the ceramic heater that will slide in where old heater core used to be (so I don't have to destroy the OEM one in case I decide to change to a fluid heater before all is said and done) etc.. etc..


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> spent 1/2 the day running around trying to get a custom ps pressure line built only to have EVERY place tell me that can't do it with zx2 (read: mazda) ps fittings... I am researching with other's who have done Mazdas what they did..
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Well lately I feel like I'm doing a lot of busy work without making much actual progress. That being said, my custom motor mount is back from the welder, and I have primed and painted it. It'll go in the car tomorrow (hopefully for good!) I also bought a lot of little stuff today... no way I'll stay on budget, but oh well. I did manage to work out placement for my volt/ammeters. I used an extra radio din blank and will place them over an existing cubby/accessory port in the dash. I'll move the accessory port since I want to keep it. This car has NO straight lines in the dash anywhere so placement is limited if I want it to look professional. Anyway, some pics of some minor progress.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

DUDE your meters are crook id ( how the heck do ya spell that?)




(just kidding) looks great

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I finally found a solution to my PS pressure line problem (I hope that is!)

Went to another hydraulic place and after some time of investigating and talking, they finally cut the flexible hose on one of my original pressure lines and crimped a "normal" fitting with the proper length hose I needed on the cut-off end that will go into a fitting they are "pretty confident" will not leak from the MR2 pump. Lot's of "ifs" but it really should be ok.. and only cost me $60.


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I finally found a solution to my PS pressure line problem (I hope that is!)
> 
> Went to another hydraulic place and after some time of investigating and talking, they finally cut the flexible hose on one of my original pressure lines and crimped a "normal" fitting with the proper length hose I needed on the cut-off end that will go into a fitting they are "pretty confident" will not leak from the MR2 pump. Lot's of "ifs" but it really should be ok.. and only cost me $60.


Glad it worked out for you. Sometimes those guys can be picky about what they do. Sounds like you also found a good shop.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

waldoz said:


> Glad it worked out for you. Sometimes those guys can be picky about what they do. Sounds like you also found a good shop.


yeah, they took the time to find a solution. Rare in this day and age. I should give credit to Rob Lehman. He turned me on to this shop. He's doing a CR-V EV here in Indy. Actually, other than some finish stuff, I think he's done with it.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

obligatory video showing electric motor spinning wheels forward and reverse


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

It will be a few hours before I can wipe this grin off my face

Looking good.


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

I took some of the parts out of the EV I'm building yesterday . I wanted to get rid of the extra wires from the ICE . When I was done I needed to test and see if the speedo still worked . It didn't . Traced it down to a couple ground wires that needed to be grounded . Other wise it ran smooth and quiet in 1st ,2nd and reverse . J.W.


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

I REEEAAAAALLY want to know where you got those gauges...


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## ZenDaddy (Jul 22, 2008)

patzke said:


> I REEEAAAAALLY want to know where you got those gauges...


No doubt!

Veeeery pretty!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I bought them on eBay.. I haven't wired them up yet, so I can't speak to their quality. But the price was right for what I wanted. I paid $59.48 for both (including ammeter shunt and shipping). KTA wanted $55 for each meter plus $22.50 for the shunt. 

here are the links to my purchase (I'm sure you can still find them on eBay)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200256804289
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350101182093


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

I'm having a very hard time trying to find an ammeter that goes up past 60A. 
I have no confirmed with anyone that I need anything more than 60A, but as far as I know, since my controller goes up to 600A, I might as well match that with a 600A ammeter. Right?

I think motor amperes will exceed 200A on a very tough load... Correct?

I'm still a n00b, correct me if I'm wrong!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

patzke said:


> I'm having a very hard time trying to find an ammeter that goes up past 60A.
> I have no confirmed with anyone that I need anything more than 60A, but as far as I know, since my controller goes up to 600A, I might as well match that with a 600A ammeter. Right?
> 
> I think motor amperes will exceed 200A on a very tough load... Correct?
> ...


Any of the EV suppliers should be able to sell you the ammeter you need. Yes, you will DEFINATELY need more than 60A! You can go the cheapo route like I did or do it with something more professional like Westach.com made by Westberg (I was just in an EV today with those). But again, any EV supplier should be able to get you exactly what you need if you tell them the specs of your system.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

this auction on eBay is for a 0-200v digital meter operating on 0-24vdc for $9.99.. hell, at that price it's worth a try for anyone!

http://cgi.ebay.com/200V-DC-ON-OFF-...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> this auction on eBay is for a 0-200v digital meter operating on 0-24vdc for $9.99.. hell, at that price it's worth a try for anyone!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/200V-DC-ON-OFF-...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116


That is a nice piece, where did you buy your two LCDs?


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

Red:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-1-2-Red-DC-50...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Blue:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-1-2-BLUE-DC-5...ctronics_Installation?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Even comes with a shunt. Going to order 2 when i get home.


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I bought them on eBay.. I haven't wired them up yet, so I can't speak to their quality. But the price was right for what I wanted. I paid $59.48 for both (including ammeter shunt and shipping). KTA wanted $55 for each meter plus $22.50 for the shunt.
> 
> here are the links to my purchase (I'm sure you can still find them on eBay)
> 
> ...


Just bought two of the exact same ones.  One Ammeter and one volt meter . I'm trying to see if he'll sell me just the 500A 75mV shunt, (as discussed in a topic on forum) I want to have one gauge with a switch between motor amps and battery amps. And then for the volt one i want to switch between traction pack and aux pack. 120v/12v


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hello Patrick, hello patzke.

I got the same gauges as Patrick originaly. The voltmeter was fine but the ammeter never worked properly. The maker do not reply to email exept to say read the manual.

I ordered a set like the greeen background gauges that patrick showed (red for me).
They work but are difficult to see. cannot be seen well without the background light and they have to be looked at almost deadon. So installation options are limmited.

take care,

DP


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

here is a picture of the first set. That's the voltmeter.










here is the second set.










My camera makes them look pink. They are quite red.

DP


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

e_canuck said:


> Hello Patrick, hello patzke.
> 
> I got the same gauges as Patrick originaly. The voltmeter was fine but the ammeter never worked properly. The maker do not reply to email exept to say read the manual.
> 
> ...


Oh no! the voltage one worked great and your ammeter didn't work?

I'll be angry if mine dont work either!

I'll let you know as soon as i get them! Is it possible that yours was faulty?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I had an "oh duh!" moment today... I was going over the low voltage wiring schematic that KTA sent with my components and couldn't for the life of me figure out why I would power my meters from the dash lights... then suddenly I remembered that their meters don't require power beyond what they are measuring EXCEPT that they are backlit at night! DUH!!

lol.. my digital meters DO require 12v power to work on top of input from what they are measuring.. duh, duh, duh.... Spent way too long noodling over that one!


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I had an "oh duh!" moment today... I was going over the low voltage wiring schematic that KTA sent with my components and couldn't for the life of me figure out why I would power my meters from the dash lights... then suddenly I remembered that their meters don't require power beyond what they are measuring EXCEPT that they are backlit at night! DUH!!
> 
> lol.. my digital meters DO require 12v power to work on top of input from what they are measuring.. duh, duh, duh.... Spent way too long noodling over that one!


Oh man, you have to love those moments. 

Happens to the best of us. 

Best of luck to your project I hope everything else is going smoothly!


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

patzke said:


> Oh no! the voltage one worked great and your ammeter didn't work?
> 
> I'll be angry if mine dont work either!
> 
> I'll let you know as soon as i get them! Is it possible that yours was faulty?


Hi patzke.
Don't want to steal the stread here. Yes, you got it right. Maybe I did something to it. And they do look good. If the Cie would talk to me, I might have bought another. On the plus side, I didn't have to buy a shunt for the replacement. A bit cheaper.

The ammeter's display would not power on. Except when grounding the IN- wire to the shunt. I am guessing it would reverse feed internaly. The value changed continuously plus to minus to out of range. With or without a load on it.

DP


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

e_canuck said:


> Hi patzke.
> Don't want to steal the stread here. Yes, you got it right. Maybe I did something to it. And they do look good. If the Cie would talk to me, I might have bought another. On the plus side, I didn't have to buy a shunt for the replacement. A bit cheaper.
> 
> The ammeter's display would not power on. Except when grounding the IN- wire to the shunt. I am guessing it would reverse feed internaly. The value changed continuously plus to minus to out of range. With or without a load on it.
> ...


Weird. I will let you know how mine respond ASAI (as soon as installed ) 

Nick


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

so finally found a relay for the heater on eBay for 17.50 shipped witha heatsink... and finally managed to get my fuel plug installed.. spinning a lot of wheels lately, but I guess it happens. Lot's of running around, not much progress.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Today I wired the ceramic heater core, keeping it's overtemp sensor. Installed heater core housing and reinstalled dash. Actually, not as much a PITA as I thought it would be. Put the battery back in and everything seems to work fine. Ran wires for voltmeter and moved the cig. lighter/accessory port to side of dash since I covered its original spot with the amp/voltmeters. A rather productive afternoon!


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## patzke (Nov 1, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> Today I wired the ceramic heater core, keeping it's overtemp sensor. Installed heater core housing and reinstalled dash. Actually, not as much a PITA as I thought it would be. Put the battery back in and everything seems to work fine. Ran wires for voltmeter and moved the cig. lighter/accessory port to side of dash since I covered its original spot with the amp/voltmeters. A rather productive afternoon!




where do you mount the ceramic heater? i have not looked into heating stuff yet. But do you put it within the existing heater system using it's blower, or rig up a heater in the backseat, type thing?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

patzke said:


> where do you mount the ceramic heater? i have not looked into heating stuff yet. But do you put it within the existing heater system using it's blower, or rig up a heater in the backseat, type thing?


I put it right back where the OEM heater core was.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Had a rather productive day yesterday. Got the lower dash back together, digital meters powered up, ran load wiring for those and the Curtis fuel gauge, cut all the metal for the rear battery box frame, took it to the welder and he got it back to me in TWO HOURS!! How's that for service??

It is actually not quite as low as the angle of that pic makes it seem... It is not the lowest point on the car.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

your not worried at how low the rear battery rack is? seams very low to me you hit it on something (speed bump) (sloped driveway) it will not be good

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> your not worried at how low the rear battery rack is? seams very low to me you hit it on something (speed bump) (sloped driveway) it will not be good
> 
> Brian


ha! I knew someone would bring that up.. Yes, I'm pondering that thought. I will need to be very mindful of how low it is. It is about 2 inches lower than the bottom of the spare tire well that was there before. I am sort of winging this one and hoping it'll be ok... If I find I start scraping it, then I'll redo it.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I don't see why you couldn't just raise it slightly if you find its too low.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

put in the Curtis fuel gauge and instrument cluster... Inside pretty much done (except for heater switch)..


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> I don't see why you couldn't just raise it slightly if you find its too low.


yes, agree.. wouldn't be difficult if needed.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ha! I knew someone would bring that up.. Yes, I'm pondering that thought. I will need to be very mindful of how low it is. It is about 2 inches lower than the bottom of the spare tire well that was there before. I am sort of winging this one and hoping it'll be ok... If I find I start scraping it, then I'll redo it.



not the scraping I would be woried about ,,, it would be the hard knock out!!!!


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I wondered how low it will be full of batteries.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> I wondered how low it will be full of batteries.


Ok... now you guys have me second guessing this box. I went out to measure it again and look at it. It doesn't look nearly as low from the side and it really is the angle of that pic that makes it look so low. It's higher than the rear crossmember and higher than the frame rails. I'd get stuck going over a speed bump before I'd hit the bottom of the box. 

I will definately need to beef up the rear springs before this is done! I'm adding much more weight to the rear of the car than what was there originally. I think I will search for a rear air dam to add to the rear bumper as an early warning device!! Plus, it will make that box all but disappear.

On the other hand, it would be VERY cheap and easy to raise it up a an inch or two right now before I go any further with it, and the batteries are to be delivered on Monday.

*pondering*


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

take some pics for us after ya get the batteries installed in the rear box ,, curious to see it then,,

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> take some pics for us after ya get the batteries installed in the rear box ,, curious to see it then,,
> 
> Brian


Here you go... Will need something done to the rear springs/shocks! But I knew I would have to beef them up anyway... I will get those taken care of before I begin to drive it regularly.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

My 15 - 8volt batteries came today.

Interstate U8VGC delivered free, no core, warranty good - each reading 8.25-8.27 volts!

$1604.20


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> Here you go... Will need something done to the rear springs/shocks! But I knew I would have to beef them up anyway... I will get those taken care of before I begin to drive it regularly.


can you do air shocks for the car? I am sure it has struts probably.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

It only took about an hour to put air bags (AirLift) in my Eagle Summit. I got them from JC Whitney. They're rated at 1000lbs. Not sure how they will ride yet, but I'll find out soon!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> It only took about an hour to put air bags (AirLift) in my Eagle Summit. I got them from JC Whitney. They're rated at 1000lbs. Not sure how they will ride yet, but I'll find out soon!


I saw those and wondered how well they'd work, but my shocks and springs are in one unit, so I'm sure I couldn't use something like that.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Worked a lot on the rear battery box today (after repairing the steel brake line I accidentally cut through yesterday! oops). The bottom of the box is treated plywood, so should do fairly well with moisture. Whole thing including visible parts of rack is painted a satin automotive black to blend in with the undercarraige. Bolted framework down to the rear frame rails, placed batts, screwed in low spacers/holders (to restrain movement and allow for swelling), used long threaded rod as tie downs between batts with some flat alum. Seems pretty solid so far. 

I keep looking at the height too... I might still raise it up a bit - we'll see how it goes (won't be hard if I do). The box really blends in much better now that it is black, but of course didn't photo that. I should have front racks finished this week and be ready for some wiring (should all go well!)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

now working on front racks... again, sure wish I knew how to weld.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I've got mig and tig wielding machines in our shop and can do steel and aluminum. Too bad you're so far away....

Are you hiring a shop or just having trouble wielding yourself?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> I've got mig and tig wielding machines in our shop and can do steel and aluminum. Too bad you're so far away....
> 
> Are you hiring a shop or just having trouble wielding yourself?


I have been taking everything to a small local shop that is very close to me. That's been fine, it would just be nice to be able to pull pieces out of the car, weld it, fit it, fix it... etc. So far, I haven't had to re-do anything that is welded.. but if I knew how to do this stuff.. I'd be long done!!

I can have the local shop come out to me.. but then I'm spending a LOT more money and I'm already over budget (trying to keep it reasonable!)


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Ahh, OK. The way you worded your post I understood you had a wielder of your own and simply was not able to make it work good enough. Yeah having some one come to your place to wield would NOT be cheap unless he's a friend that would work for beer or something.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I got the front most rack off to the welder today and finally gave in and decided to have them come out and help me do the one over the motor next week.. They're very close to me, so the charge shouldn't be much more than if I take it to them and it will be done and will be right.

Spent a couple of hours today trying to figure out how the hell to wire the 12v heater switch so that it can only have power if the blower motor has power... poured over the wiring diagrams, poked the multimeter into more places than is really decent... Finally figured it out. Turns out (and I'm sure many of you of you are thinking "no sh!t, sherlock"), that the blower motor can only come on if two things are true.. 

a) the ignition is in the "run" position, and...
b) the blower motor switch is in any position but "off"

Problem is I was probing in the wrong places, not realizing the two connections I need to make are in two different places. Finally tested it with the multimeter's red probe in the blower motor's power connecter and the black probe in the blower motor switch's output connector.

Yeah, I probably didn't explain that well. Suffice to say it makes sense to ME and I'm confident it will work! lol

UPDATE: 

Ok, after trying what I said above, I found out it doesn't work so well since the voltage being pulled by the blower motor varies depending on the speed the blower motor switch is set to (duh). Anyway, depending on the position, there would not have been enough volts to power my relay for the heater. So.... after thinking it all over, I decided that my ground for the switch was in the correct place (on the panel position switch - only provides ground when something other than "off" is selected). Then I drew power for the switch from a 12v "run" source (same one I got power for the gauges from). Tested that and it works great. Long story short, my 12v heater switch that will control my relay (which came in the mail yesterday) is in and wired and works great. I'll post a photo later.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Well I finally decided to act on the "I think the junk in your trunk hangs too low" thread.. I raised the rear box two inches. It is now only about an inch (if that) lower than the spare tire well was OEM. I feel much better about it even if I do lose a couple of inches of trunk space.

Also, got the front-most rack back from welder. Installed it and placed batts... front of car is still higher than OEM. Hopefully, after I put in the last four batts, I won't have to beef up front suspension at all (crosses fingers).


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I got the front most rack off to the welder today and finally gave in and decided to have them come out and help me do the one over the motor next week.. They're very close to me, so the charge shouldn't be much more than if I take it to them and it will be done and will be right.
> 
> Spent a couple of hours today trying to figure out how the hell to wire the 12v heater switch so that it can only have power if the blower motor has power... poured over the wiring diagrams, poked the multimeter into more places than is really decent... Finally figured it out. Turns out (and I'm sure many of you of you are thinking "no sh!t, sherlock"), that the blower motor can only come on if two things are true..
> 
> ...


Patrick you are looking at the blower wiring the wrong way,,, you will look for negative voltage not positive voltage,, there is a wire there that will trigger a standard 12 volt relay if you have + 12 volts (from the ignition) to the coil of the relay and the other wire from the blower will supply the neg to the coil to activate it only when the switch is moved to any position other than off. Try that man and I assure you it will work ( to make the testing use a yest light and instead of clipping it to ground clip it to + 12 vdc and probe the large wires going to the blower and find the wire that keeps the test light lit when in all positions other than off) also the intensity of the test light bulb may alter a bit but it will still be enough to keep the relay (that you will add) energized.

if you need a better explanation call me and I can explain it better on the tele

800-728-6976

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> Patrick you are looking at the blower wiring the wrong way,,, you will look for negative voltage not positive voltage,, there is a wire there that will trigger a standard 12 volt relay if you have + 12 volts (from the ignition) to the coil of the relay and the other wire from the blower will supply the neg to the coil to activate it only when the switch is moved to any position other than off. Try that man and I assure you it will work ( to make the testing use a yest light and instead of clipping it to ground clip it to + 12 vdc and probe the large wires going to the blower and find the wire that keeps the test light lit when in all positions other than off) also the intensity of the test light bulb may alter a bit but it will still be enough to keep the relay (that you will add) energized.
> 
> if you need a better explanation call me and I can explain it better on the tele
> 
> ...


yeah, ultimately that is what I've done. Anyway when I tested the new connection, it only gives me voltage when the ignition is "on" and the panel switch is not "off". So I'm sure my explanation is a bit wonky, but the switch works properly and with plenty of voltage.

thanks!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Video about battery racks/box coming soon. All racks are now done!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I managed to get my MR2 PS pump mounted and wired through the relay today.. I haven't done the final wiring yet as I've not started on the control board. But it's in and plumbed. (god I hope it doesn't leak!)


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

no, thank you Patrick! great video and work!


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## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hi Patrick.

Nice to see go forward with all this.

I see you mounted the relay straight on the pump. Just like me.









It does seem better to have the pump, relay and wiring as one unit.

You never bench tested the pump before installing it?
I think it will work well for you.

Take care,

DP


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

e_canuck said:


> Hi Patrick.
> 
> Nice to see go forward with all this.
> 
> ...


I didn't bench test it, so I hope it isn't a bust! But I sat in the car today turning the wheel without any power and it's actually fine; I could probably do without power steering after all. I'll be good either way (though it would be a pricely little mistake if it doesn't in fact work).


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I installed the freshly painted middle rack today and placed the final four batteries. Looks like ride height in front hasn't changed. I still have a few things to put up front, but all together they weigh less than one battery. The rear, all said and mostly done, only sags about 1-1/2" below stock. Will probably still see about some stiffer springs. 

I also started making the battery cables before I got torn away for family time... If that pesky thanksgiving thing hadn't been in the way, I'd have all the cables done (and probably the vacuum system mostly installed).

I did order two custom cut aluminum heat sinks of eBay. One for the controller and one for the dc/dc... do I need one for the dc/dc?? I dunno, but it couldn't hurt I guess. $46 for both, delivered... here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170280770376&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT&viewitem=


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

LOL! yes, holidays can be a real drag LMAO!!


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I did order two custom cut aluminum heat sinks of eBay. One for the controller and one for the dc/dc... do I need one for the dc/dc?? I dunno, but it couldn't hurt I guess. $46 for both, delivered... here's the link:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170280770376&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&viewitem=


According to EVA where I got my DC/DC converter, you don't need one for the DC/DC converter. It should get cooling air though. The one I have (Astrodyne SP-480P-12) has small internal fans.










They do indicate it should be mounted with a gap between it and the control board (nut under each corner) and also mentions it needs an enclosure to keep moisture out.

I'm planning on working my enclosures and high voltage guards on my control board this coming week.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> According to EVA where I got my DC/DC converter, you don't need one for the DC/DC converter. It should get cooling air though. The one I have (Astrodyne SP-480P-12) has small internal fans.
> 
> They do indicate it should be mounted with a gap between it and the control board (nut under each corner) and also mentions it needs an enclosure to keep moisture out.
> 
> I'm planning on working my enclosures and high voltage guards on my control board this coming week.


Fortunately, my converter says it's watertight. And the extra heatsink for it was only $10, so what the heck.

my dc/dc from beepscom: http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/cv-hwz-120-12-300.htm

I did get all the cabling made today including running from rear to front, which was more a PITA than I anticipated. Front batts are reasonably secured and all batts connected... reads 123.8v on my multimeter. My goal is to get the controls sorted out my the end of the weekend.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Patrick,

It's looking good! Nice work. Your getting close now. Interesting idea to strap batteries in with large ty-wraps....never thought of that. Let us know how they work out.

Cheers.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Patrick,
> 
> It's looking good! Nice work. Your getting close now. Interesting idea to strap batteries in with large ty-wraps....never thought of that. Let us know how they work out.
> 
> Cheers.


that may be temporary.. but they are heavy duty indoor/outdoor rated at 175lb strength and most have more than one strap on them.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I mounted my charger and got it all wired up today.. finished the rest of the high voltage cables. Mounted control box with contactor, shunt, circuit breaker (still need a rod to move circuit breaker on/off).. several misc things left and the DC/DC, vacumn pump... man, seems like it never ends!


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Looking good! It is always all those details 

I think you will have that done before Christmas, 

Mine looks like I am going backwards, have the dash and most of the interior out now.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Now thats a way to celebrate the holidays in style


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I powered up my PS pump for the first time and it seems to work great! Not even any leaks, which is what I was most worried about. I expected it to vibrate a lot, but it's actually very smooth. Hums along nicely until you turn the wheel then it kicks into high gear. Not sure if the signal from my vss will work to shut it off at higher speeds as I have not driven the EV yet, but I installed an on/off switch on the dash so I can turn it off whenever I want. Actually, from turning the wheels without it on, I don't really think I'll need it for much unless I want to parallel park in a hurry. Also wired up the low voltage to my contactor and it goes on and off just like it should with the ignition switch. So far so good!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

latest video:

Battery racks


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> that may be temporary.. but they are heavy duty indoor/outdoor rated at 175lb strength and most have more than one strap on them.


it is cool but at their rated strength if a battery weighs 75 pounds then about 2 1/2 G's would bust them right? What would that equate to in MPH? 5mph to zero very quickly would probably produce 2 or 3 g's?? ( just a guess ) just pointing it out.

Brian

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOkin Good!


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

I once had the fun of driving a 'vette with a heads up display with a g-meter. Starting and stopping were very low g, and turning sharply around a corner only got me up to about 1.6g maximum. 2.5g is A LOT. It's not hard to get that much in an accident, of course, but with normal driving, you'll be fine.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> it is cool but at their rated strength if a battery weighs 75 pounds then about 2 1/2 G's would bust them right? What would that equate to in MPH? 5mph to zero very quickly would probably produce 2 or 3 g's?? ( just a guess ) just pointing it out.
> 
> Brian
> 
> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOkin Good!


gotcha... I am always keeping my eyes open for something stronger and more permanent. My big problem is room.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Bottomfeeder said:


> I once had the fun of driving a 'vette with a heads up display with a g-meter. Starting and stopping were very low g, and turning sharply around a corner only got me up to about 1.6g maximum. 2.5g is A LOT. It's not hard to get that much in an accident, of course, but with normal driving, you'll be fine.


You know, come to think of it... you're absolutely right. I remember when I was a lad and the "new" Vette came out in late '83. They were then talking about how many lateral g's the car could pull and it wasn't a lot really. So yes, I agree... anything approaching 2g's is a lot of force. In fact, a wiki search on g-force shows that really, really vomit-inducing thrill rides can produce anywhere up to 4g's and I'm SURE this EV won't have that kind of power!!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok, several updates:

Wired and mounted my dc/dc converter today.

Worked out a lever to turn circuit breaker on/off from outside the electrical box (will need to add some sort of interior attachment to it later).

Wired up my OEM Fuel Pump Inertia Kill Switch.. works great as a low voltage break between the ignition "run" and contactor.

Wired up my charger interlock relay... KTA sent the wrong one and it makes an awful racket!! They are rushing me a new one. Whistar at KTA has been very helpful and good to this newbie! Always there with the advice.

Wired up the heater and tried it out.. BAD ELECTRICAL SMELL!! lol.. well, I guess I couldn't expect EVERYTHING to work well the first time eh? Bad part is I will have to remove the dash again to find out what the problem is. Guess I'll be cold for my first test drive.

I am very, very close to that first test drive! But being ungodly patient and want to make sure I'm not cutting any corners. I know once I get it moving, I won't want to stop at just around the block, so I want it to be able to go a few miles. (I'll still probably keep it the neighborhood until I'm confident it's a go.)

Here are some misc pics...


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your heater, burning is not a good thing.
So have you driven it yet?
It is looking good


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> Sorry to hear about your heater, burning is not a good thing.
> So have you driven it yet?
> It is looking good


the more I think about it.. and look at pictures, I'm wondering if it wasn't electrical but plastic I was smelling. I'm not sure that I had the temp dial on hot. In the zx2, the hot to cool dial just manually opens a flap over the heater allowing air to flow or not flow through the heater. If I had that flap closed and the heater on, well.. you get the idea. I'll try it again for a few seconds before I tear the dash apart. and uh.. cross my fingers while holding a fire extinguisher~!

the wiring looks correct... I can't think of what would be bad.. unless the wires are just too close to the over temp thingy...


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Hmmm... could be...

My Ranger has a vacuum operated door for the A/C system that had a tie in to the old ICE vacuum system before I jerked the motor bay A/C stuff out.

You may check your firewall over for a small vacuum line that leads to the A/C and tie your new vacuum pump system in to operate the door or if you got rid of your A/C system maybe find the door and manually secure it into the open position.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Hmmm... could be...
> 
> My Ranger has a vacuum operated door for the A/C system that had a tie in to the old ICE vacuum system before I jerked the motor bay A/C stuff out.
> 
> You may check your firewall over for a small vacuum line that leads to the A/C and tie your new vacuum pump system in to operate the door or if you got rid of your A/C system maybe find the door and manually secure it into the open position.


all the other vent directors work off vacuum, but the hot to cold bypass door is manual - go figure. I opened it up all the way and smell went away and in a couple of minutes I was feeling some warmer air.. so I think I dont' have a problem.j

update: the warmer air was a figment of my imagination I guess... no burning, but not heat either.. the dash will have to come back out to figure out where I went wrong.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*It's alive!*

so I took it out on a couple test drives today.. (video soon) it's cold but very sunny and dry here in Indy. I love it! some things I wasn't expecting.. starting out in second sometimes makes it very jerky and I don't like jerking, makes me think I'm goint to break something. So I start in first now, much smoother. 

Not as much power as I had hoped... I have an 8" motor and a 400a Curtis, so maybe my system is just not as powerful as I would have liked. Still, acceleration is okay on flat terrain, not many hills here in Indy to test that and none close to my house. I drove it about 8miles and nothing cracked, popped or fell off! So I guess I'm ahead of the game.

No power brakes not nearly as bad I thought. But then I've had cars with manual brakes before. I will be installing the vacuum pump, just couldn't wait to take a couple of drives!

Turning off the PS makes it VERY difficult to turn the wheel, so will definately keep that turned on.

Fried my meters (which were working great beforehand btw) and must order new ones. Stuck the wrong fuse in.. but why are they pulling so many amps???? Will have to investigate that.

Got my heatsink in the mail yesterday, installed today... JUST enough room under the hood and looks kinda cool bottom side up so the heat naturally rises.

All in all a good day.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Man, that is fantastic!! Your EV Grin has got to be a mile wide!! I'm hoping to get Kathi's bus on the road before the end of January; so now you are in inspiration!!
JACK


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Congratulations! I look forward to the video!


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Congratulations, I bet it felt good to give it a try. I have a thought on the jerking, could be current limiting due to load, will give a choppy feel.
I hope you get your heat figured out, too cold to be without 
I bench tested my heater core before installing and it smelled for a while due to the adhesive I had used, I hope it will take the 144 volts ok.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

a bit of smell is normal do you have access to the leads going to the heater without tearing the dash apart? If so obviously check voltage but more importantly check amperage. Is it wired so the fan must be on for the element to turn on?

B


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> a bit of smell is normal do you have access to the leads going to the heater without tearing the dash apart? If so obviously check voltage but more importantly check amperage. Is it wired so the fan must be on for the element to turn on?
> 
> B


I will test that before I remove the dash again. It's not a horrendous ordeal, but still not a fun one. Seems like I read somewhere that it should pull about 12.5amps in full tilt boogie mode... I wonder if running it with that door closed (and no air across it) made the little over temp sensor go out, and if that is a temp or permanent break.

oh.. yes, it can only come on when the fan is on, but if one is dumb enough to forget to open the hot to cold flap, then no air!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

video 12 - controls


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*First test drive video!*


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Check your rear end to see if you have gear oil in it. It may be the sound you're hearing and when turning, the rear end differential gears spin at different rates.

Check to see if it does it on right hand turns or left.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Check your rear end to see if you have gear oil in it. It may be the sound you're hearing and when turning, the rear end differential gears spin at different rates.
> 
> Check to see if it does it on right hand turns or left.


actually.. that sound pretty much went away. I think the brakes were a bit crusty. And FWD no rear differential. 

update: the heater does seem to be working.. just not very hot - guess I expected it to be more like an ICE heater core.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

Congratulations on the successful test run!

I see you are starting out in first gear and shifting as you increase speed. Have you tried starting out in a higher gear? In my two test drives I never used anything but third and reverse. I took two friends for a ride (an extra 300 to 350 pounds in the back seat) and the car still had plenty of power to take off from level ground in third gear.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> Congratulations on the successful test run!
> 
> I see you are starting out in first gear and shifting as you increase speed. Have you tried starting out in a higher gear? In my two test drives I never used anything but third and reverse. I took two friends for a ride (an extra 300 to 350 pounds in the back seat) and the car still had plenty of power to take off from level ground in third gear.


I found that if I start in second, I get a sound I don't like. Since it isn't there in first, I start in first. Also, so far, my power is dismal. I know I only have the 400am Curtis, but I expected it to be normal acceleration. Not quick mind you, but normal. It is definately SLOW.

I also f_ed up big time today and pushed it too far. I had to stop, wait, limp, stop, wait, limp, stop, wait, limp to get it back to the garage. Sure hope I didn't do any damage to the batts... but at worst, maybe I decreased their lifespan a hair? That was after going only 13 miles. 

It is only the second time I've driven it, so I shouldn't have tried to take it so far... they are new batteries and it is only about 25 degrees here today. Anyway, it's home and charging and I will definately not drive as far until I've built up the batteries for many charge cycles.

as for speed...... I'm wondering why it is so slow.. even at 400amps max shouldn't I have a decent amount of kick when I step on it? Hell, I'm wondering if I could get up a steep hill at this point.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I found that if I start in second, I get a sound I don't like. Since it isn't there in first, I start in first. Also, so far, my power is dismal. I know I only have the 400am Curtis, but I expected it to be normal acceleration. Not quick mind you, but normal. It is definately SLOW.


Check your CV joints. Make sure the axles are fully seated and there are no torn boots.



PatricioIN said:


> I also f_ed up big time today and pushed it too far. I had to stop, wait, limp, stop, wait, limp, stop, wait, limp to get it back to the garage. Sure hope I didn't do any damage to the batts... but at worst, maybe I decreased their lifespan a hair? That was after going only 13 miles.
> 
> It is only the second time I've driven it, so I shouldn't have tried to take it so far... they are new batteries and it is only about 25 degrees here today. Anyway, it's home and charging and I will definately not drive as far until I've built up the batteries for many charge cycles.


I was so anxious to do my test run that I took the car out without a hood or headlights. The batteries were not even tied down!
I did 7 miles on the first test and 10 on the second 'test'. It's a lot warmer here in Florida than up in the far arctic north were you are, so I guess that could make a difference in battery capacity. 



PatricioIN said:


> as for speed...... I'm wondering why it is so slow.. even at 400amps max shouldn't I have a decent amount of kick when I step on it? Hell, I'm wondering if I could get up a steep hill at this point.


I haven't tried any significant hills yet, there are not too many of them here in Gainesville. I really need to wait until I get my new tires installed before I do much more driving.
I am using a Curtis 1231c/7701 controller. The extra 150 Amps of motor current could be why my EV seems more 'energetic' than yours.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

So Patrick the noise you have in second gear in a corner also happens if you take off in second gear? But yet if you are moving in first then shift the noise doesn't exist? Thats what I got from your video. Is the car jerky when the noise happens? can you feel it I mean? I kinda agree with the other post that mentioned the axles I had a strange noise as well but I also drove the first 200 miles with the right axle only making contact about 1/4" in,, I finally relized it when I jacked the car up then back down and the axle actually fell out. Perhaps jack the car up in the front and have some one inside the car use first and second gear while turning the steering wheel and listen for something. The noise is a potential HUGE issue and cannot be dismissed as "oh well I will just use first gear when I turn" let us know what you discover.


Good luck

Brian

As for the power 400 amps is not a ton of power and I have a 550 amp and in hindsite I wished I got a 750 amp controller,, the higher the amps on the controller the higher the output power from the motor. Are you keeping an eye on temps on the controller and motor? (I am sure you are )


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> So Patrick the noise you have in second gear in a corner also happens if you take off in second gear? But yet if you are moving in first then shift the noise doesn't exist? Thats what I got from your video. Is the car jerky when the noise happens? can you feel it I mean? I kinda agree with the other post that mentioned the axles I had a strange noise as well but I also drove the first 200 miles with the right axle only making contact about 1/4" in,, I finally relized it when I jacked the car up then back down and the axle actually fell out. Perhaps jack the car up in the front and have some one inside the car use first and second gear while turning the steering wheel and listen for something. The noise is a potential HUGE issue and cannot be dismissed as "oh well I will just use first gear when I turn" let us know what you discover.
> 
> 
> Good luck
> ...


I have thought of that and I will do what you suggest about jacking it up and taking a look/listen. I don't recall actually feeling it, just hearing it. And no, it does not do it if I shift into second while moving. Maybe the custom mount I made to hold the passenger drive shaft isn't strong enough under torque.. I hope not! What a PITA it would be to have to redo that whole thing. But I will absolutley investigate further.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> Check your CV joints. Make sure the axles are fully seated and there are no torn boots.
> 
> I am using a Curtis 1231c/7701 controller. The extra 150 Amps of motor current could be why my EV seems more 'energetic' than yours.


yes, will definately look at those cv joins, my mom's car was making a similar noise recently and that is exactly what she needed. 

I am investigating if I can return the 1221 for a 1231... should have just spent the extra $400 to begin with!


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> yes, will definately look at those cv joins, my mom's car was making a similar noise recently and that is exactly what she needed.
> 
> I am investigating if I can return the 1221 for a 1231... should have just spent the extra $400 to begin with!


If you can't swap it out, you might be able to sell it on the side as it still would work good on some smaller vehicle conversions.

Hmmm...as a side thought, if you sold it and is still under manufacturer's warranty, would the warranty transfer over to a new owner?


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Ok, I know you have probably checked but what are your current limit and acceleration pots on your controller set at?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I have the Curtis 1221C. It's a 400amp max controller. And, uh... here's a newbie moment, but I don't think those things are adjustable on my controller. I don't think the PB6 potbox is adjustable either. 

please someone correct me if I am mistaken!


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I have the Curtis 1221C. It's a 400amp max controller. And, uh... here's a newbie moment, but I don't think those things are adjustable on my controller. I don't think the PB6 potbox is adjustable either.
> 
> please someone correct me if I am mistaken!


Yes they are, See Figure 17 on page 25 of the Curtis PMC Manual


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I downloaded the user manual today and saw that, thanks! So I adjusted the current limit to the maxium and took it for a short test drive since the batts were already pretty low. From my unofficial "seat of my pants" test, I would say it is definately quicker. Not much, but probably enough to make it acceptable and more like I expected.

Any reason it should not be set on the maximum?? Also, would the cold affect the performance (other than range)?

I also replaced the incorrect charger interlock relay with the proper one and it works great. BTW, the heater is working. I guess I just expected it to be warmer. Of course, it has been below freezing here for the last three days that I've been able to test drive.

Left to do:

Install right hand splash shield
Fabricate/install bellypan to protect motor and keep motor bay clean
Install vacuum to restore power to brakes and ventilation ducting
Fabricate/install rear batt box cover and vent fan (so far I leave trunk open when charging)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

btw.. tested the potbox and it is working properly.. I think adjusting the 1221C will take care of my painful slowness.. at least I can FEEL it accelerate now!


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Good news Patrick, did you turn up both current and acceleration?
I know performance will suffer as well as range in the cold. I am glad at this point I went with 2 elements in the heater core, sounds like one would take a while to heat things up.
It looks like you have almost got it done, congrats! 
Get those brakes sorted out before the high speed tests  wouldn't want to wreck all that work..


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

couple quick updates:

had it on the highway yesterday up to 70mph (before I turned the current up)

the heavy duty nylon straps are working great so far. I know they wouldn't hold up well in an accident, but so far the car is very quiet.. no clunking or unusual noised on bumps, etc...

will update again on driving it as far as safely possible today after turning up current adjustment


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## akorna (Aug 13, 2008)

Patrick,
Are you still running w/out power brake system?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

akorna said:


> Patrick,
> Are you still running w/out power brake system?


yes, I will get that installed today or tomorrow (it's supposed to be in the 40's here - heat wave!)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Just want to say I finally got my EV grin today!  I was leaving the hardware store in OHMer and it hit me. This is a cool thing having an electric vehicle that I converted myself. Plus, changing the current limit on the controller made the performance much better - about what I was expecting out of the components I chose. Sure, a 550amp Curtis would give me a bit more umph, but it's fine the way it is for what I want it to be. Hell, I could even feel the heat output today since it was up to 40 degrees outside!


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> Just want to say I finally got my EV grin today!  I was leaving the hardware store in OHMer and it hit me. This is a cool thing having an electric vehicle that I converted myself. Plus, changing the current limit on the controller made the performance much better - about what I was expecting out of the components I chose. Sure, a 550amp Curtis would give me a bit more umph, but it's fine the way it is for what I want it to be. Hell, I could even feel the heat output today since it was up to 40 degrees outside!



Congratulations! I suppose when your existing batteries end their working life and Lithium batteries become cheaper you could always upgrade to a new controller at the same time.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

hehehehe


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

nice paintshop work on the liscence plate

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> nice paintshop work on the liscence plate
> 
> Brian


Thanks. Indiana's vanity plate rules are clearly meant to discourage people from getting them. You have to order them by 10/31 and then you don't get them until the following year. So the earliest I could get any would be 2010. Maybe I'll just have a sticker made to put over them; police have obviously stopped enforcing traffic laws of any kind lately (seriously, I see people doing crazy sh!t right in front of cops and nothing happens). Hey, sorry to hear about the second controller.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

For people following the website, I've reorganzied it and added info. There will also be a cost/data page soon (once I've lived with the car awhile).

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3155482

fyi... It's peforming better and better all the time. The actual performance is improving, the range is extending - I love it! 

Also, I finally finished the vacuum pump so now I have power brakes AND I can control my dash vents again!! You can actually tell the heater is working now that the vents aren't stuck on defrost all the time. While I got used to the manual brakes, power sure is nice. My sytem isn't particularly loud and holds vacuum well. I added a three foot (or so) exhaust hose stuffed with steel wool as someone here suggested (thanks!) 

a note: it is a WONDERFUL thing to keep all the little parts until you're finished with the conversion. I was able to reuse all the little "hose holder" thingys that kept the ac lines, ps lines, etc in place for my new ps lines and vacuum hose lines. I think the overall look is pretty professional for a home-brewed conversion.

*This site has been invaluable!! Thank you guys!!*


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Gongrats, Patrick. You have done a textbook conversion that any of us would be proud of.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Very Nice Professional Looking Job Patrick!! 

(but is anyone _ever_ completed on their EV??)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> Gongrats, Patrick. You have done a textbook conversion that any of us would be proud of.


gee thanks : ) I've been trying to get it on some local stations now that it's "finished". There are a couple minor cosmetic things to do, but mechanically I'm done.

I've already lined up a couple of local middle schools to take it to. Will call high schools and tech schools next. Ivy Technical College is about 1/4 mile from my house!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

just a quick pic of the finished vacuum pump and motor compartment


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Patrick your thread deserved some stars so I gave them to ya!!!!! I like your high school idea I will pursue that myself,,, keep us all posted as things develope. Do you have a final build cost calculated yet? That is always good info to share (if you don't mind)

Brian


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## akorna (Aug 13, 2008)

Patrick,
Small world - My brother is an engineering technology department head at Ivy Tech - Do you want me to pass your info along?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

akorna said:


> Patrick,
> Small world - My brother is an engineering technology department head at Ivy Tech - Do you want me to pass your info along?


 aboslutely! that's funny... if he's interested, have him send me an email through the cardomain page ([email protected])


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> Patrick your thread deserved some stars so I gave them to ya!!!!! I like your high school idea I will pursue that myself,,, keep us all posted as things develope. Do you have a final build cost calculated yet? That is always good info to share (if you don't mind)
> 
> Brian


I ended up spending just about 13k total, including the car... Over my initial budget by quite a bit, but that's the way these things tend to go. Frankly, still less than I could have had someone else do the conversion for me.


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## ZenDaddy (Jul 22, 2008)

Clean and Mean

Nice work Patrick


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

cleand up trunk..


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

oh yeah, I drove to the truck scales yesterday and the car weighs EXACTLY what I calculated... 3200lbs even. the gvwr is still under the total rating and fr/rr ratings...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

went by the Ford dealership today and picked these up.. one on each fender! Hey, electricity is about as flexible a fuel as you can get. Yeah, the car is filthy (bad weather) and they're hard to photograph, but you get the idea.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I understand the green leaf on the road, that seems to be from a ford escape hybrid, but I don't understand where they "EV" came from. What ford did that come from?

Looks proper though. And as it so happens, we are digging out of snow right now too....8" in about 8 hours and it still falling.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> I understand the green leaf on the road, that seems to be from a ford escape hybrid, but I don't understand where they "EV" came from. What ford did that come from?
> 
> Looks proper though. And as it so happens, we are digging out of snow right now too....8" in about 8 hours and it still falling.


The road and leaf has been used by Ford for well over a decade now as a symbol of their Flexible Fuel Vehicles. Many of their engines have been capable of burning ethanol for a long time. The "EV" is custom lettering I found online.. you can get numbers and letters in any combination you like. I have "EV" on each fender and "120 VOLT" on the trunk lid. I'm working on vinyls for the side of the car now.. I want whatever I do to the car to look very professional.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Ok.. today was my longest trip yet. 19.2 miles up to 50mph and at 119volts when I returned. I was on the second yellow on my Curtis fuel gauge. I've had some different suggestions as to what 80% DOD should be on a 120v system, so for now I am considering ~115 volts to be 80% DOD. I don't want to ever get below that.

so.. in cold weather (ok, it was actually warm for the 1st 1/2 of the trip - 50degrees!) if I can comfortably get 20miles, I'm happy. I think that should translate into a comfortable 50mile range in warmer weather. Keep in mind I'm still breaking in my batts.. only on the 15th charge cycle! (208 miles so far)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

UPDATE:

ok, well after living with my EV for a couple of weeks now, and driving it everyday, I have a couple of observations/comments. 

The heavy duty zip ties are actually working great. The batts are snug and secure (just the front ones, the rear are bolted in to the box)

The heater, or "warmer" rather, works ok - not great. But it knocks the chill off, so I'll leave it as is.

Everything seems to be holding up on real world streets in the dead of winter (it's been very cold here, even for IN). 

The power is marginal. I can get up to any speed I'd like, just takes a while to get there. I'd definately use a larger motor and controller on a future conversion. Based on my 8" ADC and 400amp Curtis, I think a 9" ADC and 550amp Curtis would be just right for a car of this size.

Would I do it again? ABSOLUTELY! I'm already thinking of selling this one to do another. Heck, maybe even another zx2 since I have templates for things like the adapter, motor mount, etc.

I was driving around doing errands yesterday with my daughter and we were talking about how nice it was to be able to do it without polluting the air even a little bit - just pure, clean electricity. And before you jump in with caveats, I pay a premium on my elelctric bill to get 100% of it generated by clean sources. Do I love my EV? Yes.


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## ZenDaddy (Jul 22, 2008)

Patrick.... you rock!

A few weeks ago my 16 year old son looked at me from the passenger seat and said "Do you realize we are casually driving an ev?" ... one of the best moments in my life. He realized what he and I had accomplished and will carry it forever. I am proud of you, me, my son, and everybody on this forum.

Sell it.. dont sell it...whatever. But build another. You are on the cutting edge.

Michael


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

today was the first time I've washed this car! It was pretty much clean when I bougt it in Sept for the build so I had yet to clean it.. it's almost 50 degrees in Indy.. a heat wave! So I figured I'd post a couple of "clean" pics of the finished EV. Enjoy. Oh yeah, finished the design for the side graphics! Will post pics once installed.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I finally got around to installing a belly shield for the EV motor compartment. It's .030 HDPE (heigh density polyethylene). Got a 4'x8' roll from usplastic.com for under $30. This density is very easy to work with and seems strong enough to hold up to the road. The motor didn't actually have much dirt on it for having been driven in all kinds of weather over the last three weeks, but now it will stay even cleaner in there!


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Do you have pictures? I have thought about making a full belly pan for my car. What I was thinking of using is corrugated plastic. How well did the material you used work out? Could you see making a full belly pan out of it?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I didn't take any pics.. my camera wasn't charged. It is very easy to work with and sure, you could do a full belly pan with it. It's much like a large sheet of milk jug plastic.. about same color, feel, thickness, etc.. Well, it's a bit thicker, but you get the idea.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I would have liked to see pictures too. I'm not picky though, pixs of the finished belly already installed will do.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> I would have liked to see pictures too. I'm not picky though, pixs of the finished belly already installed will do.


actually, I was going to take pics of the whole process and realised as I rolled the sheet out that the camera was run down and needed to be plugged in. Then I got in the middle of the project.. and well, you know. I'll get around eventually to taking pics of it.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Pat, I just ordered a 4'x8' sheet of the 1/16''. Do you know if it's paintable? Now that you mention the "milk jug" color I'm leaning towards a coat or two of paint.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Hey Pat, I just ordered a 4'x8' sheet of the 1/16''. Do you know if it's paintable? Now that you mention the "milk jug" color I'm leaning towards a coat or two of paint.


I don't know if it's paintable or not.. since my car is white, I didn't even think about it. I ran it from the upper bumper cover support (so nothing gets in from the small front grille) down around the lower part of the radiator support and back to where the floorpans are in one sheet.. tucked it around the suspension, attached to side splash shields and back of wheel well... should do a pretty good job of keeping stuff out.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Since I will most likely sell this EV in the spring to finance another EV project, I've decided to put together a sort of manual for any future owner (while the memory is all fresh!). Here is a pic of the trunk electrical chart. Batt layout and wiring has been charted already and posted earlier in this thread.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Last week I was at the Toyota dealer to have our Prius serviced, and I mentioned to the service guy that we had an EV now and he was asking about it so I stopped by there the other day to show it to him.. Pulled my EV into the service department and ended up having just about EVERY mechanic (and several salespeople) in the place surrounding it for about twenty minutes asking questions... they were VERY interested in the conversion and the fact that someone did one in their garage. Remember this is from the Prius service guys!

One guy asked me what made me want one and I told him our Prius was the main reason.. the more I drove the Prius around, the more I tried to make it run on just the electric motor (which of course they can only do for brief periods). So then I started looking into buying an electric car and found out the only ones I could afford (Tesla aside) could go 25mph. Who the hell wants that outside of a retirement community? So I started researching homemade and viola! A few months later and I have my own electric car...

funny thing is.. they all agreed. If I can do it in a garage for under 10k... why can't the big car companies do it en masse? Well, we all know they can. But when WILL they (again)? It was great having so many people interested and asking questions! Glad I did the website to direct them to for more in depth info.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> Last week I was at the Toyota dealer to have our Prius serviced, and I mentioned to the service guy that we had an EV now and he was asking about it so I stopped by there the other day to show it to him.. Pulled my EV into the service department and ended up having just about EVERY mechanic (and several salespeople) in the place surrounding it for about twenty minutes asking questions... they were VERY interested in the conversion and the fact that someone did one in their garage. Remember this is from the Prius service guys!
> 
> One guy asked me what made me want one and I told him our Prius was the main reason.. the more I drove the Prius around, the more I tried to make it run on just the electric motor (which of course they can only do for brief periods). So then I started looking into buying an electric car and found out the only ones I could afford (Tesla aside) could go 25mph. Who the hell wants that outside of a retirement community? So I started researching homemade and viola! A few months later and I have my own electric car...
> 
> funny thing is.. they all agreed. If I can do it in a garage for under 10k... why can't the big car companies do it en masse? Well, we all know they can. But when WILL they (again)? It was great having so many people interested and asking questions! Glad I did the website to direct them to for more in depth info.


Wow, that must be an awesome feeling. And this is your FIRST EV!!?? Its almost too bad some one didn't take some pictures during your informal show in. Still quite something for even the sales reps being interested though.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

david85 said:


> Wow, that must be an awesome feeling. And this is your FIRST EV!!?? Its almost too bad some one didn't take some pictures during your informal show in. Still quite something for even the sales reps being interested though.


yeah, the guy who sold us the Prius three years ago aparently used to own a three wheeler EV... I don't recall what he said it was called. He was unfortunately not there when I stopped by.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

a couple more pages for the EV manual...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

meter chart for manual.. though still having issues with my ammeter for some reason - even with the new meters and isolated power supplies


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I assume you received the DC to DC convertor by now? Did you get it installed yet? Did you know that you can also adjust the voltage up if you want??? When I was running a seperate 12 battery I cranked the voltage up to 14.7 to assure the battery would charge.

Or are you even using a 12 volt battery now???

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> I assume you received the DC to DC convertor by now? Did you get it installed yet? Did you know that you can also adjust the voltage up if you want??? When I was running a seperate 12 battery I cranked the voltage up to 14.7 to assure the battery would charge.
> 
> Or are you even using a 12 volt battery now???
> 
> Brian


Yes, I did get it; have not yet installed. I do have an accessory batt, but the installation instructions from Cascade say NOT to leave at 14.7 or it damage the battery.. I wondered about that actually. And thus far, I've not had any problem with my battery even with my whimpy 25A DC/DC. It always stays right at 12.48Volts. You don't think it will hurt the batt to set the DC voltage at 14.7?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> Yes, I did get it; have not yet installed. I do have an accessory batt, but the installation instructions from Cascade say NOT to leave at 14.7 or it damage the battery.. I wondered about that actually. And thus far, I've not had any problem with my battery even with my whimpy 25A DC/DC. It always stays right at 12.48Volts. You don't think it will hurt the batt to set the DC voltage at 14.7?


if you leave it at 12.48 ish it will never really charge the battery I would at least set it to 13,5 at minimum,, is it on all the time or does it turn on through a relay? Look at a cars alternator it puts out at least 14.5 volts this is to assure it is charging theh battery

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> if you leave it at 12.48 ish it will never really charge the battery I would at least set it to 13,5 at minimum,, is it on all the time or does it turn on through a relay? Look at a cars alternator it puts out at least 14.5 volts this is to assure it is charging theh battery
> 
> Brian


well the dc I have now - I've never really tested the voltage of the output. It's supposed to be 13.7 or so, but it's from beepscom and when I've called them with questions in the past, they've seem less than knowledgeable. When I first bought it they guy told me 25ams would absolutely be enough for an EV - clearly it isn't. That's why I bought the new one.

Anyway, I don't have it going through a relay, I leave it on. My only concern about leaving it on constantly is that right before I'm done charging, my voltage can get pretty high.. Will I blow a fuse on this unit if my pack goes over 140V? Or does the DC not really pull any voltage from the pack if nothing is running?


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> well the dc I have now - I've never really tested the voltage of the output. It's supposed to be 13.7 or so, but it's from beepscom and when I've called them with questions in the past, they've seem less than knowledgeable. When I first bought it they guy told me 25ams would absolutely be enough for an EV - clearly it isn't. That's why I bought the new one.
> 
> Anyway, I don't have it going through a relay, I leave it on. My only concern about leaving it on constantly is that right before I'm done charging, my voltage can get pretty high.. Will I blow a fuse on this unit if my pack goes over 140V? Or does the DC not really pull any voltage from the pack if nothing is running?


Ok it is different if it is on all the time in that case I would stay at no more than 13.0-13.4 which is about pretty standard float voltage.

As for the dc convertor no worries man it will accept up to 190VDC, I run mine (45 amp) continous and I have a 144 volt system that charges to 175 volts,, no problem at all,, Thats what the manufacturer told me,, I spent a long time on the phone with the owner of Cascade before I decided to use them in the E Car. He also says that they will function at 90-190 VDC with 130-140 being "optimum"


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> well the dc I have now - I've never really tested the voltage of the output. It's supposed to be 13.7 or so, but it's from beepscom and when I've called them with questions in the past, they've seem less than knowledgeable. When I first bought it they guy told me 25ams would absolutely be enough for an EV - clearly it isn't. That's why I bought the new one.
> 
> Anyway, I don't have it going through a relay, I leave it on. My only concern about leaving it on constantly is that right before I'm done charging, my voltage can get pretty high.. Will I blow a fuse on this unit if my pack goes over 140V? Or does the DC not really pull any voltage from the pack if nothing is running?



So why Patrick do you even have a 12 volt battery at all????????????????? Why bother with the extra weight etc?????

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Two months in:

Two months since my first test drive and I drive my EV practically every day. I'm averaging abou 20miles on a charge in winter, so that should translate rather well in warmer weather. Rarely is that not enough for me now.

My heater works just fine now that I've gotten used to it. In fact, there are times I have to turn it off because I'm too warm!

I have decided to get a higher output DC/DC converter, thanks rctous - great price! Haven't installed it yet, but will soon.

Realised my zx2 has no trunk release from the inside, even though it's a feature on the remote. So when in the car, you have to take key out of ignition if you want to open the trunk - lame. So after digging around on the zx2 forum, found a quick mod and wired in a momentary switch to have "on demand" trunk release (like every other car in the modern world!)

I really dig having an electric car so far. I've taken it to my daughter's school and had a gaggle of 4th and 5th graders asking tons of questions about it. I was rather impressed with the maturity of their questions actually. Will take it back for the 6th, 7th and 8th graders soon.

My belly shield is doing a great job of keeping the motor bay clean. 

Charger seems to be doing a fine job of keeping the batts in line. All still within one tenth of a volt from each other.

I seem to have finally stopped blowing fuses on my voltmeter now that I have isolated power supplies for my digital meters.

that's about it.. just wanted to update a recent build...


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

So again I ask why the 12 volt battery???


Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> So again I ask why the 12 volt battery???
> 
> 
> Brian


just backup I guess..


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Patrick,

I am using a DLS-75 and I have it set to output 14.2V. I am not using an auxillary battery at all. The converter is always on but it appears to go into a shutdown mode on its own if nothing is being demanded from it. I can leave it plugged in for days and not notice any impact on the battery pack.

One thing that can happen is with a 120V pack it is possible to get down to a low enough discharge level where the DC/DC converter will shut down from low voltage. This happened to me the other day as I was testing the limits of my range. Under acceleration the converter would drop out.

I am planning on adding two more batteries and running a pack voltage of 144V. I don't believe there is anyway that you could run this down low enough to drop out the converter. If the pack voltage got below 100V on a 144V pack, I doubt you would have enough power to move the car, so the converter dropping out wouldn't really be your biggest problem.

Steve


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

well, that's sort of why I have an accessory battery too.. even if my converter completely konks out or blows a fuse, I will still have enough juice to drive home and have brake lights, etc.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

notnull said:


> Patrick,
> 
> I am using a DLS-75 and I have it set to output 14.2V. I am not using an auxillary battery at all. The converter is always on but it appears to go into a shutdown mode on its own if nothing is being demanded from it. I can leave it plugged in for days and not notice any impact on the battery pack.
> 
> ...


excellent reasons to maintain a 12 volt battery in a 120 volt system,, but the dc to dc should stay alive with 90 volts and if your below that I would assume your getting to the pushing point,, pushing the car that is. And being at that low of voltage its probably not a good idea to keep driving if ya want to save your traction pack.

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

so I finally got around to closing up the rest of the space around the rear battery box. It was 75% sealed up, but there was a large gap between the box and the forward part of car as I had to cut out more space to fit the box and frame in as a unit. The opening for the trunk is only so big!

I cut some 3" wide strips of .025" aluminum and bent them to the contour of the well opening. Then layed down a thick bead of adhesive/caulk and screwed the aluminum down snug to the ege of the box. Finished by laying a bead of expandable foam all around. Also put same foam around the tubing that carries the wiring front to rear where I had used a hole "bit" in the trunk floor.

I also changed my charging profile. I had my charger set in a gas/float mode. It'll charge to so far, then to so far and then maintain float indefinately. I changed it to shut off after the second charging stage. Since I drive the car almost everyday, I don't see why I need the indefinate float mode on all the time. Plus, this should decrease my overall electric usage at least a bit.

Only thing really left to do is install the custom springs I just ordered. Not sure how long it will take to get them.. And maybe graphics on the side; haven't made up my mind about those yet.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

OPINION TIME:

ok.. I'm thinking of one of the two following graphics for the sides of my car (they'd be reveresed on each side. Bascially, the more ornate one would go from the rear wheel well up to the front of the door, just under the body side moulding and the simpler one would be just on the door under the moulding.. I'll include a pic of the side of the car to give you an idea of where it would go. The lettering would be towards the front of the door. Which one do you guys like more??


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> OPINION TIME:
> Which one do you guys like more??



The 2nd one. The 1st one IMO is too ornate. Simple design is best.


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## waldoz (Oct 1, 2008)

The simple one is better, easy to read as you drive by.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Patricio
How long is that 2nd graphic? 

I like it. But then again, I like Peanut Butter & Banana sandwiches. So what do I know?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> Patricio
> How long is that 2nd graphic?
> 
> I like it. But then again, I like Peanut Butter & Banana sandwiches. So what do I know?


uh.. the ornate one is like 62 inches total, the simpler one is the one I'm leaning towards; it has larger lettering and would just cover the door panel and is 52 inches.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yup, I agree with others. Second one that has larger letters is better.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

#2 wins my vote

Brian


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## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

I hate to go against the crowd, but I like the wind swept look of the first longer decal, MHO.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I finally spent some time in PhotoShop to see what the two different designs looked like when they're actually on the car. And I have to say that the simpler one planned for just the door panel looked... wrong. It left that space between the door and the rear wheel well looking empty. So, if I can this printed on clear vinyl (or whatever it is they use for clear), I think this is the one I'm going with. My ONLY concern with this is that with the EV emblems and "road and leaf" emblem I already have on the front fender, it might clash a bit.. but they are three dimensional and this would be two, so I think all in all it would be ok.

Hopefully you can make this big enough to see what it looks like!


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I am not sure about the whole sticker idea at all,,, I don't like the look .. it's too much just a simple small electric powered car or vehicle or something?? Again just my opinion.
does the rear really sag that low???? or is that the angle its on? It looks like it really needs a lift?

brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> I am not sure about the whole sticker idea at all,,, I don't like the look .. it's too much just a simple small electric powered car or vehicle or something?? Again just my opinion.
> does the rear really sag that low???? or is that the angle its on? It looks like it really needs a lift?
> 
> brian


well I have the "EV" on the fenders and the "120 Volt" on the trunk lid, but I find that people don't really even notice those unless they're already looking at the car and know it's an ev.. so I really want to make people think "hey, there's a pure electric car driving 50mph next to me" and maybe think about trying to get one of their own.. so I want "something" that makes it stand out.

as for the height, that pic exagerates it, but it is fully 2" lower in back than when I started. Did you measure the wheel well heights on yours before you tore it apart? So I ordered new springs this week, should be here next week. They are oem specs + 460lbs... should restore ride height to exactly where it was originally.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> well I have the "EV" on the fenders and the "120 Volt" on the trunk lid, but I find that people don't really even notice those unless they're already looking at the car and know it's an ev.. so I really want to make people think "hey, there's a pure electric car driving 50mph next to me" and maybe think about trying to get one of their own.. so I want "something" that makes it stand out.


With this decal on my window I get questioned regularly on the street and in parking lots. The car has also won a few stoplight-to-stoplight races from some very surprised ICE'ers.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

I did finally add some stickers to my car but they are pretty suttle (how I like it)

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> I did finally add some stickers to my car but they are pretty suttle (how I like it)
> 
> Brian


lol.. yeah.. It might be a personality thing. I don't often get accused of being subtle!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I FINALLY have a working ammeter... had to go through four ammeters, three voltmeters and three isolated power supplies. Have NO IDEA what I was doing wrong before, but I just got the latest ammeter and isolated PS installed and took it for a spin... all seems to be working, so I am NOT going to touch anything!!

Under full throttle I pull between 200-300 amps.. moderate acceleration keeps me under 200amps and for the short spin I took, it looks like a constant 40mph on level ground is ~ 75 amps... Seems reasonable, yes?


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I FINALLY have a working ammeter... had to go through four ammeters, three voltmeters and three isolated power supplies. Have NO IDEA what I was doing wrong before, but I just got the latest ammeter and isolated PS installed and took it for a spin... all seems to be working, so I am NOT going to touch anything!!
> 
> Under full throttle I pull between 200-300 amps.. moderate acceleration keeps me under 200amps and for the short spin I took, it looks like a constant 40mph on level ground is ~ 75 amps... Seems reasonable, yes?


Other than the max current (I've drawn upwards of 500-Amps when under hard acceleration) those current levels are very similar to mine.
I got rid of the digital amp meter. I much prefer analog. The Voltmeter is still digital though.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I FINALLY have a working ammeter... had to go through four ammeters, three voltmeters and three isolated power supplies. Have NO IDEA what I was doing wrong before, but I just got the latest ammeter and isolated PS installed and took it for a spin... all seems to be working, so I am NOT going to touch anything!!
> 
> Under full throttle I pull between 200-300 amps.. moderate acceleration keeps me under 200amps and for the short spin I took, it looks like a constant 40mph on level ground is ~ 75 amps... Seems reasonable, yes?


you must have your shunt on the batteries right ? Not on the motor???

B


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## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

Patrick, I have been meaning to ask you how low are you letting your voltage sag under load? Mine seem to sag pretty easily. What has been your real life range? I belive you said it gets cold there too correct? Since we have te same batteries and voltage I can at least have something to compare to. 

Thanks Chris


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> you must have your shunt on the batteries right ? Not on the motor???
> 
> B


yes... most + to circuit breaker to shunt to contactor to motor

It's the way the KTA diagrams came and I pretty much followed their designs for it all.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Hondacrzy said:


> Patrick, I have been meaning to ask you how low are you letting your voltage sag under load? Mine seem to sag pretty easily. What has been your real life range? I belive you said it gets cold there too correct? Since we have te same batteries and voltage I can at least have something to compare to.
> 
> Thanks Chris


they sag quiet a bit under load.. I don't run the overall pack voltage below 115 unless I screw up and limp home (I've done a couple of times).. so under normal driving the pack voltage can sag down into the 90's towards the end of my useable range.

When it was 0 degrees, I was able to drive the car 15 miles. The most so far has been 30 miles at ~50 degrees. We really haven't had any consistent warm weather here since I started driving the vehicle on December 4th. I chose not to insulate the batts as I wouldn't have had room for 8 in the motor bay with insulation; I knew I'd have to live with reduced range in winter. Most of the time, it's still enough to do what I need to do.

Indy is a typical Midwestern city where main arteries in town can easily run at 50mph+, but most the time I try to take routes that keep me at 45mph or less. The fastest I've had it was 70mph on the freeway.

It takes anywhere from 8-12 kwh's to recharge. It'll be very interesting to see how much range I have at 70 degrees! Obviously, the more I "get on it", the lower my range, so I try to drive like a blue-hair.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> yes... most + to circuit breaker to shunt to contactor to motor
> 
> It's the way the KTA diagrams came and I pretty much followed their designs for it all.


nothing wrong with that,, it just seemed low and that explains it

Brian


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rctous said:


> nothing wrong with that,, it just seemed low and that explains it
> 
> Brian


why? do you see fewer amps on the battery side than the motor side?


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> I FINALLY have a working ammeter... had to go through four ammeters, three voltmeters and three isolated power supplies. Have NO IDEA what I was doing wrong before, but I just got the latest ammeter and isolated PS installed and took it for a spin... all seems to be working, so I am NOT going to touch anything!!
> 
> Under full throttle I pull between 200-300 amps.. moderate acceleration keeps me under 200amps and for the short spin I took, it looks like a constant 40mph on level ground is ~ 75 amps... Seems reasonable, yes?


Pat, I'm pegged out at 400 amps when accelerating. Then at 50 mph in 2nd gear I'm pullin around 175 amps. I'll double check this next time I go for a drive, but I'm pretty certain on this. Matter of fact, I think at 60 mph in 3rd gear I'm pullin around 300 amps. But our's goes from shunt to motor i believe.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> why? do you see fewer amps on the battery side than the motor side?


yes quite a big difference,, don't know exactly but 20-30 % is my guess

Brian


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## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> they sag quiet a bit under load.. I don't run the overall pack voltage below 115 unless I screw up and limp home (I've done a couple of times).. so under normal driving the pack voltage can sag down into the 90's towards the end of my useable range.
> 
> When it was 0 degrees, I was able to drive the car 15 miles. The most so far has been 30 miles at ~50 degrees. We really haven't had any consistent warm weather here since I started driving the vehicle on December 4th. I chose not to insulate the batts as I wouldn't have had room for 8 in the motor bay with insulation; I knew I'd have to live with reduced range in winter. Most of the time, it's still enough to do what I need to do.
> 
> ...


Pat, that sounds about the same as my car. I have the low voltage cutoff set at 90 volts and my Kelly controller starts cutting back the amps at 10% above that. The more I read about the the new LIFEPO4 that Tech found the more I want them! I sure would like to get 40 miles even in the cold weather.


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## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

rctous said:


> yes quite a big difference,, don't know exactly but 20-30 % is my guess
> 
> Brian


I will try to answer this tomorrow, I have a inductive clamp I will hook to my Fluke meter and try to compare my battery amps to the motor amps I have wanted to do this anyway, now this gives me a excuse.

Chris


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok.. so I can FINALLY say my conversion is done! The new motor has been installed, all meters are working and I've replaced the rear springs. Car is sitting pretty, working great and a real joy to own!

I will say, weather or motor, it finally has the acceleration I anticipated. The quirks in the drivetrain are gone. I can even start in second with no noise or jerking. The new motor is quieter and smoother. The new springs give it a MUCH better ride and restored it to its original ride height (actually a touch higher, but looks fine). 

I'm debating about going ahead with the side graphics, but otherwise.. done!


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ok.. so I can FINALLY say my conversion is done! The new motor has been installed, all meters are working and I've replaced the rear springs. Car is sitting pretty, working great and a real joy to own!
> 
> I will say, weather or motor, it finally has the acceleration I anticipated. The quirks in the drivetrain are gone. I can even start in second with no noise or jerking. The new motor is quieter and smoother. The new springs give it a MUCH better ride and restored it to its original ride height (actually a touch higher, but looks fine).
> 
> I'm debating about going ahead with the side graphics, but otherwise.. done!


Congratulations! It's great to hear that your performance issues have been resolved. Now if I could just finish my car... 1200 Miles under electric power and my dashboard is still all ripped apart!!

Joe


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Patrick. Very well done. Congrats.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Thats good to hear. Glad you have it running again. The stance looks good too. Might be a little high in the rear, but if you put more than just two people in and add some luggage, it will be perfect. Better too much than too little right?


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> ok.. so I can FINALLY say my conversion is done...
> I'm debating about going ahead with the side graphics, but otherwise.. done!


Well now that all your conversion work and road-testing components is done, it's time you gathered up all your receipts and get ready to file for the tax write-off for your conversion.

The IRS link below is on the Electric Vehicles of America (EVA) website as one of their tax links. There may be others that apply in your state as well.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8834.pdf




> There is also a Conversion Kits law for plug-in electric drive conversion kits. The credit is equal to 10 percent of the cost of converting a vehicle to a qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle and placed in service after Feb. 17, 2009. The maximum amount of the credit is $4,000. The credit does not apply to conversions made after Dec. 31, 2011.


http://www.newsoxy.com/toyota-hybrid/cars/article11887.html


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Today was the longest range I've had from my EV. 39.2 miles with a resting voltage of 116. I try to never let it get below 115. So far it seems to cost me ~$.05/mile in electricity costs. This is a bit fuzzy as my record keeping has been spotty since the motor melt down issue.

The original consultation with Ken Koch gave me a max useable range of 45 miles. I think I could achieve this if I was a little slower to accelerate and stayed at/below 40mph. I generally try to keep up with traffic (unless the duma$$es are just racing to a red light) and I usually get up around 50mph for some stretches of my daily routine. Temps in the last few days have been about optimal for EV driving 70-80 degrees. I might even eek out a bit more range when it gets even warmer this summer.

The car is for sale on eBay and EVAlbum.. don't know what it will bid up to, but I based it on similar conversions that have sold or are for sale. I may just jump straight to the '64 Rambler EV next! I have my '65 Rambler wagon for sale now too! It's too original to convert.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*News coverage! *

Ok, so I was excited... Story on wrtv6 Indianapolis today about my EV conversion. Will air again tonight (not sure when yet) and up on their website http://www.theindychannel.com/news/19633781/detail.htmlhttp://www.theindychannel.com . I have it on tape and will get that converted to a youtube video asap. I wish they had aired my plug for diyelectriccar.com!!


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## DC Braveheart (Oct 12, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> *News coverage! *
> 
> Ok, so I was excited... Story on wrtv6 Indianapolis today about my EV conversion. Will air again tonight (not sure when yet) and up on their website http://www.theindychannel.com/news/19633781/detail.html . I have it on tape and will get that converted to a youtube video asap. I wish they had aired my plug for diyelectriccar.com!!


Patrick,

And I just saw a link to that story from the Latest News section on cnn.com - way cool!

Stuart


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*cnn.com baby!!!!*


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

holy crap! I'm getting emails from around the world. Offers to buy the car and go into business.. offer to write a technical book.. Seriously - so many people better for that than me!!!

My conversion website has rec'd over 150k hits in just a couple of hours.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Very kewl Patrick! It's great exposure. How did it all get started.... the original interview etc.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Very kewl Patrick! It's great exposure. How did it all get started.... the original interview etc.


funny.. the reporter lives in my neighborhood, of which I am the Pres of the HOA, and she contacted me a couple of weeks ago about a story on tall grass and weeds!! That interview was cut for time.. ouch. So I mentioned that I would love to do a story on my EV.

She called me at 9am this morning and asked if I was available for a quick interview that would air at noon. I said YES.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Just caught the story on the news, very cool! enjoy the fame,lol. Congrats!


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

HOT DAMN, Patrick. 

In 3 weeks, I will be able to view videos, at my Daughters house in Florida. I'm gonna need 100 DVD Discs to burn stuff on.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Hi Patrick, is the news article on You Tube yet? Work server denies access to the news website but allows access You Tube... hmmmm


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Cool!!  

How's come everyone else gets the interviews with the hot chicks? 

The article should have been titled "Man Whizzes *ON* Gas Stations With Self-Made Electric Car"

I like reading all the comments left by others.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Grant_NZ said:


> Hi Patrick, is the news article on You Tube yet? Work server denies access to the news website but allows access You Tube... hmmmm


 
not yet, sorry.. will probably be a couple of days. I also finished another "living with my EV" type video recently that is in the process of editing/titling/rendering... Will let you know.

And yeah.. some of those comments are priceless! Ah well, you get a crowd together and there's bound to be the nuts and naysayers.

btw, my website had over 300k hits today! And some of the offers that rolled in via email..... interesting.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Wow Pat, awesome! I'm only 2 hours north of you and word is just beginning to travel here. We will be attending a few car shows and sounds like we may have a spot at Cruise Auction in Auburn, IN. We have around 1200 miles and a new graphics wrap, which is wild. Things are looking good. Need to spread the word about this EV thing. Many people haven't a clue about EV's. If you wanna plug a Fort Wayne EVer I won't have a problem with it!  Like I said 1200 miles without a hitch (that is, that wasn't our fault). We recently put over 40 miles on and only ran down to 118 volts. The Summit does 70 mph and seems to get better all the time. I need to get some recent pics! 

Congrats man! Isn't it awesome how people react to your conversion? We are loving it! It's about time that people realize the potential of the EV though huh?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

JSRacer said:


> Wow Pat, awesome! I'm only 2 hours north of you and word is just beginning to travel here. We will be attending a few car shows and sounds like we may have a spot at Cruise Auction in Auburn, IN. We have around 1200 miles and a new graphics wrap, which is wild. Things are looking good. Need to spread the word about this EV thing. Many people haven't a clue about EV's. If you wanna plug a Fort Wayne EVer I won't have a problem with it!  Like I said 1200 miles without a hitch (that is, that wasn't our fault). We recently put over 40 miles on and only ran down to 118 volts. The Summit does 70 mph and seems to get better all the time. I need to get some recent pics!
> 
> Congrats man! Isn't it awesome how people react to your conversion? We are loving it! It's about time that people realize the potential of the EV though huh?


What's really funny is that since this my first conversion, I learned some things that I would do a bit differently on the next one. When I do another conversion it will be so much better! psst.. I got an offer to audition for an upcoming TV show in LA. Not sure if I am going to do it though... I actually have a different show I'd like to pitch to DIY or Green Network.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

if anyone is in the Quad Cities listening area (IA, IL), I am slated to be on the Dwyer & Michaels morning show on 97X fm tomorrow around *EDIT: SORRY... 6am central time!!* 

Apparently the story has caused a big stir (who knew?) because there were 13 pages of comments on theindychannel. Some people can just be real boobs! lol.. anyway, it was broadcast locally in cities like Boston, Orlando, Charleston, Kansas City, Pittsburgh... 

Honestly, I have NO idea why this has been so popular. It's not as if other EVers haven't had local news stories done about them for years. I will say the reporter and camerman did a fantastic job with the story. The editing and intros were superb.

I got an email from the editor of Cardomain.com today too... he "noticed" that my ride page got over 300k hits yesterday. Talk about getting the word out about EVs huh? Think about it, if 300k people read or saw the news story AND decided to click through to my conversion page - then how many people saw the story and didn't click through??


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

The interview went well... I got in a plug for diyelectriccar.com!!


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Lol awesome!


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Pat!!! Just to let you know you totally scooped us here in Fort Wayne! Saw you last night on Fort Wayne FOX news! We've been driving our EV since February here in FW with 1300 miles damn it!  I don't think anyone even knows up here. LOL I saw your face on the news and immediately said 'thats Pat Roth from Indy!'.  Oh well, ironicly, my dad was on WOWO radio with Pat White yesterday afternoon and had a 15 minute conversation on the air about our Eagle Summit. Maybe the word up here will be out soon!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

yeah, I'm learning that's it has aired in just about every market in the country. People keep calling and saying they saw it in (insert city here). It's crazy actually.. just the right place at the right time I guess. You should see some of the interesting emails I've rec'd. Let's just say this may not be last you see of me on camera.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

So have you got an agent Pat? movie rights? a script? 

Congrats man, down here in our corner of the world, Gav (KiwiEV) had his 15 minutes of fame as you know but little has been seen on the news about electric cars since... DIY or otherwise


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Grant_NZ said:


> So have you got an agent Pat? movie rights? a script?
> 
> lol.. no comment (just yet)


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

at lap around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway

re-edited video to fit on youtube..


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

ok when you click the play icon "This video has been removed bla bla.... its too long bla bla" grrrr boob tube


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Grant_NZ said:


> ok when you click the play icon "This video has been removed bla bla.... its too long bla bla" grrrr boob tube


I happened to be online 1 minute after pat posted the link and figured I'd wait before saying the same thing. REEEAAALY want to see it though


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok, the last video was too long for you tube, so we made it two different ones.. the first one is in post #325 and I'll post the second as soon as it's uploaded.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

ok, we finally got the news story edited and put up on youtube.. the video quality isn't the greatest since we went from a vhs tape to digital format, but at least you see the lead ins and outs..


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Dude thats awesome! Thats one of the best reports I've seen so far.

She asked all the smart questions and you gave all the right answers.

What makes it so good is the report points out that anyone can do this and its 100% legal. Some others go as far as to say this is really cool but "don't try this at home" which is bull sh*t as we all know.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

here is the "Living with OHMer" video (well the second 1/2) that was too big for youtube... enjoy.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Range update:

well I wanted to see how far I could go with very conservative driving. Longest trip so far with *MILD* acceleration and average cruising speed of 35-40 mph: 45.2miles and 116.8 volts after a 15 minute resting period.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*comment deleted


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## samabhi111 (Jul 14, 2009)

Great work dude! You are doing excellent work.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I took OHMer down to the local cruise in for the first time.... Me sitting among a couple hundred classics, exotics and hotrods. There were a LOT of people who stopped and asked questions and looked everything over. Folks were very interested in the car and how it worked. A few had seen the news story and have been reading my website already, and only one guy who clearly questioned the whole "global warming, oil is bad.. if it aint on FOX it aint true" bit.. but even he was polite and thought it was interesting. Lord knows in a crowd full of people who've spent a small fortune on a car just because they wanted to, nobody was going to question WHY I did it!! It was a fun night.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

so does that make you an official "volt" head?


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Patrick
I've also been taking mine to shows. Even won a "Best Engine Class" at one show....LOL! 
I think going to the shows exposes people to the real thing. They ask lots of questions. Hopefully we are slowly opening their minds to EV's. Many people are amazed by my top speed - 65mph - they seem to have thought EV's were slow.
I'm getting braver going farther each time I take it out. I'm up to about 32 miles roundtrip now. I find that even with a full charge, if I plug it in for an hour or so just before I leave, I get a few extra volts in the pack. Also the warm weather is helping lots.
Enjoying the summer -
Roy


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

that's a very nice looking VW EV Roy!!


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks Patrick


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I took my EV to the local "Cars and Coffee" on Saturday morning. You should have seen the faces as I pulled my little Ford in next the exotics! It was like one big collective "What does he want?" 

Anyway, once I opened the hood and trunk, there was an immediate crowd around me. This gathering had Ferrari, Lamborghini, classic Mercedes, etc... LOTS of special cars (including the obligatory tuner crowd) but I think my EV had more of a crowd than any other there. Well ok, it was a close call between OHMer and the yellow Diablo. 

People of all ages were asking tons of questions and really checking everything out in depth. Even the tuner crowd, who love speed, thought it was cool. When I left there was still a crowd and several guys yelled "turn your car on man!" in fun as I pulled through the lot. I seriously need to find that bubbling sound from "Flubber". I want to install a speaker in the front that will play it when I'm moving at low speeds.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Patrick
You and I must be "Twins of Different Mothers". I had that very same idea. My kids have Computer DNA so I will ask them to download and burn a CD with the "Flubber" sound. It has to be somewhere on the Internet. If they can find it I'll have them make 2 copies and mail you one.
Roy


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> Patrick
> You and I must be "Twins of Different Mothers". I had that very same idea. My kids have Computer DNA so I will ask them to download and burn a CD with the "Flubber" sound. It has to be somewhere on the Internet. If they can find it I'll have them make 2 copies and mail you one.
> Roy


thanks, I'd love it


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Patrick Roth's zx2EV project - 4 Sale - $12,500 w/ free shipping!*

OHMer has been sold.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

so I still have OHMer... and I still drive him just about every day. It's amazing how reliable these little homemade things can be eh? I sold off my convertible last fall, and my Rambler wagon last month.. I was thinning out the toys - until - I came across a new toy! Thankfullly, I have a very understanding husband! Oops.. I better change my sig line.

So my new toy is a '78 Mercedes 280CE in mint condition. Bought him off a 84 year old German woman who's husband always babied him. I call him Klaus. Had 75K miles when I bought him (then I drove him to Indy from Portland). 

So who's thinking hard about buying a Nissan Leaf?? lol...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

OHMer has been sold.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

well.... loaded him on a truck and sent him off to his new owner in Missouri.. Seeya OHMer, it's been a blast!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Congrats! Hope it went to a good home.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Awww sad to see it go. Any plans for future EVs?


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

LOTS of plans... lol... money? Well.... we'll see.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Hey I feel you there that's the only limiting factor in my projects right now...I'm selling off my hot rid truck to make room for new projects right now. In the shop as well as in the budget selling the truck accomplishes both


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

a friend stopped by unexpectedly last night with a friend of his own.. who just happens to own a Tesla! Beautiful roadster. Took me for a spin and stepped on the accelerator, or as it should be called, the "warp speed initiator"! Man, that thing FLYS. Not to mention the fantastic sound of an electric motor whirring at speed! Great to finally see one up close and get a ride.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Wow, I haven't posted anything to this thread in over a year! I miss OHMer! Ah well I have a red Nissan Leaf on order and it should be in sometime in November. I really wanted a Focus EV, but Ford isn't releasing ANYTHING on it as of yet, so looks like Nissan will earn my business. I've moved from Indy to Austin, TX and have already driven the Leaf a few times and been all over it, so it's a go!

I still add up the cost of doing another conversion from time to time, but to do one the way I want to - well, it just seems like buying OEM might be the smart way to go for now. Now, if I ever do get around to retromodding a Rambler, then it will absolutely be an EV! Oh, btw.. I do still read many of these threads, just don't post responses very often.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Last week we took delivery of our 2012 Leaf... LOVE IT! Yeah, it'd be cool to say I built it myself, but man this thing is sweet. I bought the Schneider charging station and installed it myself. hehe... not like I can't do simple wiring!


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

> How do you like your charge station? How much did that set you back?


You can get one at Home Depot for $799.00:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202963679&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202963679&ci_kw={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-202963679&ci_gpa=pla&locStoreNum=1846

Congrats Patrick! There are three of them in these parts now. Look very nice! One guy was showing me the app on his android phone to turn on the heat remotely, check on charging...


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Nice EV. I have the Blue one. Been driving mine since June. Nearly 6000 miles already. Doing well in cool weather too. I don't like the heating system nor the sun visors or the thin cloth on the center console. But other than that I love mine to no end. It's quick and fun. Handles very well. How do you like your charge station? How much did that set you back? I am still waiting for mine from EV-Charge America and I paid them last July. Had to go elsewhere to get my 240 charge station.
> 
> Pete



We bought the Schneider EVSE from Home Depot believe it or not.. $800 free shipping. About $90 in wire, conduit, breaker, etc. It's a simple model, which I like since that's all you need - plug it in and walk away. Haven't had any problems with it and since it's on a side wall, we like how slim it is - only sticks out 4.5" from the wall. It's much slimmer and cheaper than going through Nissan and having their unit installed.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Congrats on the new ride Patrick! I took advantage of the test drive day in our city and I like the car, but not so much the price. I was waiting to see if they decide to make a sportier version before I consider purchasing. I will be looking at your long term impressions of the Leaf, keep us posted.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> Congrats on the new ride Patrick! I took advantage of the test drive day in our city and I like the car, but not so much the price. I was waiting to see if they decide to make a sportier version before I consider purchasing. I will be looking at your long term impressions of the Leaf, keep us posted.


Well, that's the thing - I starting thinking of how much it would cost me to do a really nice conversion with ~100 mile range, and it came out to be $25,000 once you put all this into a decent, relatively new car. Just seemed to make more sense financially to buy an OEM, with an OEM warranty. The drawback is I don't have a unique, made with my own two hands, vehicle. So far (and it's only been a week) I really like the car. There are several little, nit-picky things I would have done differently, but that's true with just about any car I've ever owned.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

couple more pics for you:


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Now that I've lived with the Leaf for a few months, I have to say that overall I love it. It's a very well made car that gets good range, handles well, is wonderfully quiet and extremely smooth to drive. The big question becomes - will OEM EV's kill DIY conversions?? I have to say the answer is NO! 

As much as I love the Leaf (and am really looking forward to the Infiniti EV sedan), I still love interesting and classic cars. I STILL want another '64 Rambler, but I hate the idea of driving an ICE again (even just occasionally.) So I really see the DIY conversions staying alive and well, but focusing more on classics and uniques. Imagine a gorgeous classic with all the modern amenities and stuffed with lithium batts and a wonderfully silent, smooth drivetrain!! I know many will hate giving up the VROOM of the old engines, but you can add that digitally if it's your thing. Me? I'm still looking for the sound from Flubber!

anyway, just my two cents....


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, I'm at it again..... 

check out Rambler_660e on Instagram!


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