# Buick Reatta EV Conversion (Need advice)



## guyver280z (Jul 10, 2015)

Hey guys. So After trying to do a 3800 Supercharged swap on my 1989 Buick Reatta, I decided that I want to go electric instead since the car has a digital dashboard and that cool 80's digital touchscreen, so it seemed appropriate.










Since I want to keep it simple I thought of using my existing automatic transmission, but then I thought, How hard is it going to be to make it work and shift properly? Do I need to have the engine constantly running to keep pressure on the tranny's oil pump? How is it going to shift? Etc... 

So I want to hear pros and cons of using my automatic transmission or should I just buy some FWD manual transmission and use that instead? I like the idea of the manual shifting without installing a clutch pedal. So same thing, thoughts on what manual tranny should I get? Can I just connect the motor to the input shaft with a coupler and no clutch and drive it safely? And how can I run the A/C, steering and vacuum pump with this setup? Should I have a secondary small electric motor ruining them so they work while I'm standing or do I run them from the electric motor but put the car in neutral while at red lights and just give it some "gas" to keep them running?

Finally, what motor should I get? I was thinking getting a used DC forklift motor and controller, but at the same time I want the car to be relatively fast, not super car fast but definitely want it to be surprising off the line, but I have no need to go faster than 65-75mph.

Thanks so much!! I hope I can get this project done during the winter.


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## guyver280z (Jul 10, 2015)

FYI

-Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication:
I can get my own parts machined and I can weld and fab engine mounts, etc.
-The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge):
Not looking for long haul, just commute back and forth to work, so 40 to 50 miles per charge.
-What level of performance you are hoping to get:
Not looking for a hot rod, but definitely want it to be fun and preppy off the line, no need for speeds higher than 75mph.
-How much money you are willing to put into your project:
From $3,000 to $5,000 max
-What parts you've already considered, if any.
Forklift motor and controller so far.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

HI, and welcome,

People who know what's possible with front wheel drive and auto transmission will hopefully chime in. The idea of wasting all that energy churning around oil needlessly in an automatic tranny is totally opposite to what I think an EV should be personally. Yes you will either need an external oil pump or to run your motor continuously if you go that route. A manual transaxle will be easier.

There are power brake and steering options but they cost money and add complexity.

The high end of your budget might be possible, but only with crashed Volt or Leaf cels. Your range goal is no problem but even with wrecker cells, battery will be a big spend.

Take your car's final weight in pounds and divide by ten- that's a rough average energy consumption in Wh per mile. Multiply that by your 50 mile range goal and divide that by 0.7 or 0.8 and that is the minimum size of pack you'll need. Volt packs are around 16.5 kWh and sell fir $1500-2000 US from a wrecker. Then you need a motor and controller. If electronics is not your hobby or your living, buying a controller is your best bet, but some swear by the Paull and Sabrina DC controller kit as well documented and easy to get working. A used forklift motor will save money but replacement if ever needed may be very tough. DC gives you lots of torque for minimum dollars but is not recommended for a high mileage vehicle. AC gives you lower maintenance and regen braking but less bang for the buck.

If you go with a manual transaxle, the clutch is optional. But the gearbox might not be, in your car, given its configuration and weight.

Best of luck- post lots of pics and ask lots of questions after reading the Wiki.


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## guyver280z (Jul 10, 2015)

Moltenmetal said:


> HI, and welcome,
> 
> People who know what's possible with front wheel drive and auto transmission will hopefully chime in. The idea of wasting all that energy churning around oil needlessly in an automatic tranny is totally opposite to what I think an EV should be personally. Yes you will either need an external oil pump or to run your motor continuously if you go that route. A manual transaxle will be easier.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your reply!!

Yes! So that's what I wanted to hear, I feel like automatic transmissions would be wasting a lot of power transferring power from the slush to the gear box, so I guess I am going to do a 5 speed manual. Ill do some research on the Buick forums to see if there's any manual transmission that would allow me to use the same axles and make the conversion as simple as possible.

I guess the clutch less Manual would be my choice to avoid having to install a clutch pedal, but I was also thinking of using a hydraulic servo controlled with a button on the shifter to operate the clutch, but Id like to head what are the pros and cons of having a clutch or not other than smoother shifting.

Thanks a lot!!


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

With either a DC or an AC motor, the clutch is optional. The tranny likely isn't optional, unless you a) have a huge DC motor and high current controller and battery to drive it and b) you make a careful selection of what single final drive ratio will give you your best optimization between top speed and off-the-line performance. A tranny gives you options, i.e. allows you to guess wrong without costing you anything really. If you have tranny and don't want to switch gears, then you don't! I absolutely can drive my E-Fire (with an HPEVS AC50 AC motor in it) in any gear, but if I had only one gear ratio to work with it would be a really boring and disappointing car to drive. With the tranny and clutch, it's absolutely an EXCITING car to drive! Effortless- nothing to stall, and regen braking behaving exactly like power brakes without all the bother...and yet more torque than that car EVER had. My face still hurts from grinning after 8,900 miles of fossil-free fun!

With a DC motor, a clutch gives you some comfort in the case your controller fails closed circuit, which they can do- i.e. it all melts together into a solid piece of wire connecting your battery pack directly to your motor. In that case you can go pretty out of control before your pack fuse blows, or you have the presence of mind to pull a cabin-mounted disconnect switch which is actually capable of interrupting such a high current...

AC motors don't have that failure mode, so no worries there. They do need a clutch pedal switch to defeat regen braking while you're shifting, to make clutchless shifting feasible.

In both cases, a clutch makes for faster and smoother shifting and less wear and tear on the synchros in your tranny. And yes, since you won't ever be "burning" your clutch to start off, and only using it briefly for shifting gears, there's no reason that a hydraulic on/off pedal-less arrangement actuated via a solenoid valve with a push-button switch couldn't be rigged up in place of an unsightly and difficult-to-fit clutch pedal. How exactly you'd do that, and with what parts, is a matter for you to figure out- but if you were to have a power steering pump already, I'd imagine it wouldn't be all that hard to rig something up.

If you're going clutchless, a lightened flywheel might be a good idea. I kept the clutch and didn't lighten the flywheel and am perfectly happy with mine the way it is. 

Two key things though: one is making sure you have enough room to fit your motor onto the tranny, and the other is the accurate design and fabrication of an adapter plate and hub. Many here have made their own satisfactory adapter plates and hubs, but it's more of a challenge if you go without the clutch, and it takes more care and attention to detal than I think most people realize if you want it to last long-term. Just ask YoungestEVer, who suffered greatly trying to do this himself... I bought a plate and hub that fit my motor and tranny from CanEV and am very happy I did- the motor went onto the plate and onto the tranny in about an hour with perfect alignment and no worries whatsoever. That's worth a few bucks! The hub itself is relatively easy, and you can sometimes find them already made (search for hubs used to convert automotive motors to marine use as an example) but the adapter plate alignment is very much NOT easy to do RIGHT.


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## Dave98002 (Nov 12, 2016)

I have not done one yet but just my input. 

Back in the days, some racers took a automatic and removed the torqueconverter and made up a spline couplier for the input shaft that also had the "Tang" that drove the front pump. They then made an adapter plate to mount a clutch to a flywheel, notched the bellhousing for a clutch arm and had a autoshift with a manual clutch. The Chrysler Torqueflite model was called Clutch-Flite but I have seen Powerglide and Turbo 350's done too. Less than HALF of the slush-box losses are in the gears/clutchs and bands, the torqueconverter IS A BIG LOSS in efficiency. You could see if a couplier and pump tang could be made for your Auto.

A low production car for sure, your "Hand Made" 1 of 21,751 Buicks body was made by the Reatta Craft Center, Lansing, Michigan but all the running gear is off the shelf GM. 

So trying to find a frontwheel drive GM with a 5 speed should not be too hard. It does *NOT* need to be Buick or 3.8L, REALLY, any FWD 5 speed and CV shafts will work if you cut the CV shafts down and reweld your Buicks outter sides on to the 5 speeds shafts. Drive shafts can be cut and welded longer or shorter as needed, just re-balance them. You may find a Dodge Neon 5 speed cheap. Even easier than a clutch is a motor interrupt button that would just shut the battery power off when you want to shift. That way it does not go into Re-Gen braking at the same time you are shifting. Push a button on the shifter handel and glide the shifter to the next gear.

Some of the newer GM cars have a power steering system that also has the power brake unit built in, Just need a small electric drive motor for that. 

Not sure if your car has a Body Control module (computer) for the dash and trip computer systems but some have "Hacked" the ECM on other cars.

Edited to add:
CanEV.com has many adapters and transmission bellhousing plates. These kits are if you want to keep the clutch, but you have no clutch and I do not think any Reatta's ever came with a stick.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
Another option would be to fit a complete Nissan Leaf - or even Tesla drive unit in there then you get all of the modern parts

The Leaf is about 100Kw - BUT it seems to be capable of developing three times that if you replace the "brains" in the controller

The Tesla unit would also probably need to have its "brains" replaced but the expensive power electric parts as well as the motor and reduction gear would be useable


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## Dave98002 (Nov 12, 2016)

Unless you can find another GM platform that would have a clutch pedel that would fit, I think you may have to go a different 5 speed and go clutch less. You will still be able to shift, just no speed shifting or BANGING GEARS. Matching the motor RPM to the next gear is not too hard with practice.

Now if it were rear wheel drive or NOT a 1 of 21.7K production run..... 

Its like my little truck I am planning to EV, a 1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 5 speed. It is 1 of 11,732 for 84 and only 37,400 were made in 4 years so not going to get the cutting torch out and hack it up, its worth too much. But its only 2300 pounds with its 2.2 and gas tank system.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

guyver280z said:


> Hey guys. So After trying to do a 3800 Supercharged swap on my 1989 Buick Reatta, I decided that I want to go electric instead since the car has a digital dashboard and that cool 80's digital touchscreen, so it seemed appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow....that touch screen....It's already like a Tesla. does it steer itself too?


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