# actual homebrew controllers



## chentron (Nov 13, 2017)

Planning my first conversion to EV after researching I found this interesting controllers/inverter for AC motor: 
- Paul and Sabrina (USA)
https://pandspowerelectronics.ecwid.com

- http://johanneshuebner.com (Deustchland)

Both look good products, but I am definitely lost with so much technical vocabulary.
Johannes answer my email very fast and look helpful, but it product say not ready for sinchronous motor. I might choice a non sinchronous motor.
I write Paul, but probably too ocupied to answer to me. To be in USA, mean problem if I need a part in the future and always expensive shipping and so. And not having answer in presales normaly mean no support after sale (Also can be only support after sale , who knows ? 

I no doubt that with enough work I will get work with any of both, so my question for choice is what You , people, think are principal diferences of both controller. 

and last question: are there more homebrew controllers to add to this list ?
thanks for your opinion.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Johannes has a thread on this forum (here) and his design is the foundation of the Tesla controller that many of us are using (here).

Damien has used the Johannes controller with a wide range of motor types and I'm sure it's only a mater of time before we see motors from BMW, Nissan, and GM, supported


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Johannes has a thread on this forum (here) and his design is the foundation of the Tesla controller that many of us are using (here) ....


And the homebrew controller kit (no power devices) by Johannes Huebner is based on the Tumanako project (many contributors). If I understand correctly, the STM32 microcontroller was picked several years ago (possibly ten).



Kevin Sharpe said:


> ... I'm sure it's only a mater of time before we see motors from BMW, Nissan, and GM, supported


Oh yeah, definitely a matter of time. Bit of info: it has taken more than ten years to get where the Tumanako / Tesla project is now and it only works with a small number of quite hard to get salvage Tesla model S power stages / ACIM drivetrains (~€4000 a piece).


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Tony Bogs said:


> And the homebrew controller kit (no power devices) by Johannes Huebner is based on the Tumanako project (many contributors).


It is and I was discussing the history with Damien a few days ago 



Tony Bogs said:


> Oh yeah, definitely a matter of time. Bit of info: it has taken more than ten years to get where the Tumanako / Tesla project is now and it only works with a small number of quite hard to get salvage Tesla model S power stages / ACIM drivetrains (~€4000 a piece).


Given we now have Nissan drivetrains for ~€600 I predict a lot more interest in open source controllers.

With regards to Tesla drivetrains, the last time I checked the AC76 was more expensive, one third the HP, and requires a transmission. With ~250,000 Model S on the road I don't think we'll have problems finding wrecked cars going forward


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

I have been following the Tumanako project for more than 10 years. Don't rememeber exactly when I first saw it. I really like the project.
First power stage was a very expensive Semikron mosfet unit.

Nissan (PMSM) is not supported yet AFAIK and with only a couple of active developers, who knows how long it is going to take to get reliable operation for PMSM. 

I have spotted a number of issues with the current hard- and software. I don't think these issues will cause anyones house to blow up, but they might have an effect on reliable operation.

BTW , just in case anyone suggests otherwise, I am not a contributor. For me Tumanako is a reference for educational purposes (officially published purpose ) and evaluation.


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## chentron (Nov 13, 2017)

sorry, but... who is Damien ?


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Tony Bogs said:


> Nissan (PMSM) is not supported yet AFAIK and with only a couple of active developers, who knows how long it is going to take to get reliable operation for PMSM.


There is a lot of active development going on behind the scenes... it's not for me to share the details but you can be sure that developers really want to squeeze the most out of €600 Nissan drivetrains.



Tony Bogs said:


> I have spotted a number of issues with the current hard- and software. I don't think these issues will cause anyones house to blow up, but they might have an effect on reliable operation.


This is a product that is in active development and IMO now has enough resources to take it to the next level. In the next few months we will have a minimum of six cars using the hardware and software, everyone is expecting problems to be uncovered, and when we do, solutions will be found.

We're moving from first generation conversions using fork lift motors to second generation conversions where we use OEM components. This transition began with the AZD auction and IMO is now unstoppable 



Tony Bogs said:


> BTW , just in case anyone suggests otherwise, I am not a contributor. For me Tumanako is a reference for educational purposes (officially published purpose ) and evaluation.


It's easy to stand on the sidelines and pontificate... personally I'd rather get involved and help people convert more vehicles to electric drive. For example, I've just been offered twelve (12) Tesla 85kWh batteries at an aggressive price... imagine what another 20 vehicle conversions would do for the DIY market


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

chentron said:


> sorry, but... who is Damien ?


Sorry, it's confusing, Damien is jackbauer and Johannes is jhuebner


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Some comments/history from my side:
When I joined the tumanako project in 2010 there was no working open code base, only fragments of some FOC and vehicle control code. They did operate a vehicle based on some proprietary ST library.

I joined the project and was introduced to libopenstm32 (nowadays called libopencm3). That was quite important because up to that point I ran all my tests using a linux PC and parallel-port-attached PWM card.

From now on I had a good foundation. As a matter of fact I developed the hardware and software architecture as it stands today all by myself (feel free to browse github logs and the mailing list archive) with the first running prototype in early 2012 and a stable version in middle 2013. I started offering the kit in late 2013. All this was an after work-project while attending an 8h day time job.

Nowadays it's not only me working on the project but a whole crowd, some full time. 

The (obvious) reason why I'm saying this is to contradict the "another 10 years" guesstimation. It did not take 10 years to get to a good result for ACIMs but only 3.

The development that has been going on since then was mostly motor-agnostic. Things like cruise control, charging and other tweaks.

And, of course, some words on the used MCU. There are better MCUs out nowadays with FPU, higher frequency, more pins, programmable logic etc. But running a motor, doing some comms, doing some digital/analog IO is not a very challenging job. The current software is nowhere near the limits of the stm32f103. Only 20% flash use, 30% sram use, 30% cpu use at the highest PWM frequency. That is, without any dubious optimizations like using assembler.
From a requirements point of view, what are the reasons to upgrade?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

There seems to be another BLDC controller that was allways kind of behind the EV sceene as far as i saw it. Lebowski controller. I always thought of it as Ebike controller, but lately a lot of people are using it for HV application with isolated main board.

TomDB
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=828106&postcount=9

Arlo
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178169&highlight=Arlo+inverter


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