# Regenerative braking vs generators



## WCRiot (Nov 25, 2007)

Hey all. I know I am the new guy and that I am going to get a lot of crap for asking such an amateur question but I have to. I can't stop thinking about electric cars right now.

How does the regenerative braking work for the current hybrid cars?
How is the regenerative braking on hybrid cars different from the regenerative braking used by DIY EVers?
Has anyone placed a generator onto their braking system to act as additional charging for the batteries and help with braking?

The reason i ask this is: I think of those old school bicycle generators so that you have have a head light on your handlebars. Those generators obviously create drag and that is why they would not be used during normal operation but, what if there was a way to properly mount and activate the same style generator to your car? The drag would only be placed on the car when braking (which would reduce brake pad wear). I know it would not be a lot of voltage or current supplied for charging but would the engineering effort be worthwhile, maybe? But wouldn't every little extra help increase the distance that an Ev can travel?

thanks,
BIGman
Be gentle...


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm fairly new here as well, but I'll take a crack at your question.

Your example of using a generator to create "drag" to slow the vehicle down and recover energy at the same time, is basically how current hybrird work. Normally, kinetic energy is dissipated through heat in friction brakes, and there is also the normal wear and tear that comes with it.

Once the hybrid comes to a stop, there is now some extra electricity available to the electric motor in the powertrain of the car (in many cases the motor doubles as the generator), so that when the light turns green, it is re-used to help accellerate the car back up to speed. 

This is usually called "launch assist", in that the extra power is only used when needed almost like a supercharger, but once the car is on the freeway, you are still getting driven by gasoline alone.

So for inner city driving, there is an improvement in range, and fuel economy, but in the case of parrallel hybrids, there us usually no difference in MPG under consistent speed conditions.

There are some examples of advanced pure electric vehicles (pancake motor in each wheel) that can do away with friction brakes alltogether, while offering some of the most advanced traction control systems ever seen. (all that with ONE moving part per wheel)

I don't know if anyone here is using regen, so can't comment on that.


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## WCRiot (Nov 25, 2007)

So the current hybrids are using the electricity generated from the kinetic energy from the brakes? Can you explain this a little more? How exactly is this done?
Is there Piezoelectric material involved? is there a simple generator like i explained that is attached to the rotor when braking?

For this launch assist that you are referring to: Is the energy stored in a basic capacitor? This is probably a better idea than what i was referring to about using the brakes to actually charge the batteries. 

I love all the technology that is in these hybrid and electric cars. I hope that the gasoline vehicles begin to advance more for better efficiency and emissions.


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## houseoffubar (Nov 18, 2007)

WCRiot, The current parallel hybrid's (Prius, Insight) all use AC motors, and controllers. These are quite efficient, and simple to regenerate, by simply reversing the load to the motor. The motor then simply turns into a generator, sending power directly back to the batteries. For a better explanation, do a Wikipedia search http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_braking
Most D.I.Y EV's are DC systems, for many good reasons. DC is substantially cheaper. It does not require an inverter to change the battery DC to use in the AC system. DC is very durable, and common to find. Many a DC vehicle has been built using forklifts, and golf kart's, ETC.
AC has it's advantages as well, it is more suited to use as direct drive, than DC, as it can spin to higher speeds in general due to it's lack of brushes, while having almost the same starting torque as a DC system. 
For the most part it is the complexity, and expense that keeps D.I.Y.er's using DC. Hope that is some help. Eric


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yep, and about capacitors, so far no full production hybrid or battery powered car has used them to recover braking energy, but there have been a few experiments. I remember a city bus that used a hyrdogen fuel cell, battery bank (nickel hydride), AND a bank of capacitors.

The fuel cell allowd fast refueling and longer range, the batteries provided high draw power for long hills, and the capaciters were used for the regenerative braking, since capaciters can accept a dump charge more efficiently than most batteries (slaming the brakes can cause a lot of powerflow).

Very complex, but I guess it proved the point.

These days, there are capaciters that are getting close to having enough reserve to double as the battery, while on the other hand, some batteries can be dump charged to deliver capaciter-like performance. I'm not a fan of fuel cells, but it seems that there is still some slow developement in the technology.


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## eRubicon (Nov 15, 2007)

To answer your first question, you could use a car alternator (high output variety) attached to free shaft (assuming you have a dual shaft motor) to produce some drag for break assist and produce some power. Alternators spin relatively freely when not under load. A switch on your break pedal that would engage with very light pressure(like break light switch) could complete the circuit to "load" the alternator, thus creating drag and producing charge. In a EV with transmission, depending on the gear you're in, this could provide significant drag-breaking. The output voltage would be a hangup. Alternators are voltage regulated for 12 volt systems. The amps can be as high as 180 amps though. You could just use it to charge your 12 volt acc. batt. but this might not "load" the alternator enough for significant drag unless you had pretty high demand on that batt.(Electric power steering, etc.) Not sure about voltage capability of alternator itself. Might just need a change of regulator to allow higher voltage and you might be able to charge traction pack minimally. 
Anybody got real experience with this? I've just been rolling it around in my head for a while.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Automotive alternators are not very efficient, somewherer around 60%, and the actual power rating is relatively low, but it could still work.

I would suggest a generator from a wielding generator, or aircraft alternator, both of which are designed for higher power output and higher efficiency (even a backup genset could be a good donor). To activate the regen feature , you could use a throttle position sensor to activate whenever you let off the go pedal, but this would eliminate the ability to coast with your foot off the pedal.


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## WCRiot (Nov 25, 2007)

david85 said:


> Automotive alternators are not very efficient, somewherer around 60%, and the actual power rating is relatively low, but it could still work.
> 
> I would suggest a generator from a wielding generator, or aircraft alternator, both of which are designed for higher power output and higher efficiency (even a backup genset could be a good donor). To activate the regen feature , you could use a throttle position sensor to activate whenever you let off the go pedal, but this would eliminate the ability to coast with your foot off the pedal.


your idea for running of the tps is a good idea BUT, it would be best to have the generator activate when the brake pedal is pressed for the very purpose you stated.

I think that space you have to work with would be an issue if the generator was attached somewhere to the wheel hub (which is what i was thinking).


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes, this could become a nuisance if you cant coast anymore, I mentioned that system becuase thats how many others have done it, the Tzero, and the phoenix SUT puckup use this method.

If you use the first bit of travel of the brake pedal to activate renegeration, that would be advantagous, but that could imply modifying the brake system, maybe thats why phoenix opted not to use that method. Personally, I would rather have it that way though, brake lights come on, and you are less likely to get rearended. We have a small size diesel pickup in the family, and it has so much compression that even on a steep downhill grade, brakes are not needed when in the correct gear, but the odd driver does get confused sometimes when they don't see the brake lights come on.

As for actually mounting the generator, an AC drive system, like what metric mind offers has an integrated system that allows the motor to double as the generator. But if you preffer to use a DC motor, it can be modified to do the same (or so I have heard), or as already mentioned, use a double shaft motor to fit the seperate generator.


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## Mr. Sharkey (Jul 26, 2007)

I can weigh in on the regen control. My car, having a shunt wound motor, has integral, very powerful regen braking. It's controlled fully by the throttle. You can lift your foot a little, and the motor amps drop to zero, you're coasting. Let your foot off a little more, the motor consumes inertia from the car's motion and begins returning current to the batteries. Lift your foot more and the current goes up. Let your foot off altogether and you're into full regen, and losing speed rapidly.

I wouldn't say that it takes any special aptitude to drive the car. After a short time, the throttle seems natural, and you expect that useful braking effect. I wouldn't trade regen on the accelerator for regen on the brake pedal for anything. Most of the time, I can come almost to a complete stop from freeway speed without using the brakes except for the last few feet. If I had to step back and forth between the brake pedal and the accelerator to double clutch into each downshift, the process would be much less fluid.

The designers of the controller built in a circuit to illuminate the car's brake lights when the regen current exceeds 50 amps. I have to defeat this "feature" when I use the Pusher, as it's capable of causing regen exceeding the 50 amp range while holding a forward velocity of 65 MPH. That would really confuse drivers behind, as well as piss them off.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Cool, thanks for your insight, I bet your brakes last a long time with that setup.

So the max regen is powerfull enough to hold pace with normal city driving?


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## pandaran (Nov 13, 2007)

Mr. Sharkey said:


> I wouldn't say that it takes any special aptitude to drive the car. After a short time, the throttle seems natural, and you expect that useful braking effect. I wouldn't trade regen on the accelerator for regen on the brake pedal for anything. Most of the time, I can come almost to a complete stop from freeway speed without using the brakes except for the last few feet. If I had to step back and forth between the brake pedal and the accelerator to double clutch into each downshift, the process would be much less fluid.


Slowing the car without using the brakes doesn't wear things down? I'm just thinking of how I've been told it's not a good idea to slow a car solely by downshifting (in an ICE). Bad for the clutch, or transmission, or sumpin' like that, right?


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## Mr. Sharkey (Jul 26, 2007)

Slowing the car down by some mechanical means (not just letting it coast to a stop) puts some small amount of wear on whatever is doing the slowing. Conventional wisdom is that on an ICE, you cause the wear on the cheapest and most easily replaced part possible. That would be the brake pads/shoes instead of the clutch/transmission/engine. With regen, the slowing process is actually producing a useable product, not just being dissipated as heat, either in brake components, or as friction inside the engine. Yes, the clutch may wear out faster, but having to replace it at 200,000 miles instead of 250,000 is a small price to pay for the extended range and longer battery life.

EV'ers with series wound motors can only dream about effective regenerative braking. It's difficult at best, and if the traction motor is used, compromises must be made in it's ability to power the car forward in order to allow it to regen. Controller complexities also make it more difficult. External generators add parasitic drag to the drivetrain when they are not in use, and are another layer of problems to be solved in mounting/belting/gearing/coupling/etc to the drive train of the vehicle.

Too bad that EV motor producers can't seem to put a little energy into separately excited traction motors. Seems like a product that has many advantages, albeit with a few built-in limitations.


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## eRubicon (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm planning the setup I described above for my eRubicon project. This will be an 06 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon conversion for pretty extreme offroad use (by EV standards). Wish I could say I'll be the first, but it's been done with a Range Rover. For me, the break pedal switch is the only way to go. Easier, cheaper. Also, with the off roading I do, No way I could maintain the optimal pedal position you describe while traversing the tuff stuff.


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## pandaran (Nov 13, 2007)

Mr. Sharkey: It sounds very elegant. 
Maybe I'll consider that on my second conversion, after I've learned how to fix my mistakes on a simple EV conversion. If I can find a cost effective way to do it, of course.


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## WCRiot (Nov 25, 2007)

pandaran said:


> Mr. Sharkey: It sounds very elegant.
> Maybe I'll consider that on my second conversion, after I've learned how to fix my mistakes on a simple EV conversion. If I can find a cost effective way to do it, of course.


Where in California are you located? I am trying to find some local ever's that would be willing to show off their projects


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## pandaran (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm currently living in Oakdale (near Modesto), but I'm going to be moving to Sacramento, and that's when I plan on actually starting my conversion. I'm afraid I've got nothing to show off just yet. *sigh*

I just got my Bob Brant book in the mail today, though!


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

Something I’ve been wondering is why cant you use a DC motor as a generator like you can with an AC motor. Because back I’ve messed around with little dc motors, like the one found in RC cars and other batter power devices, and if you hook one up to a voltmeter and spin the shaft it will generate power.


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## Mr. Sharkey (Jul 26, 2007)

You can, that's the whole point. However, the motors you are thinking of are permanent magnet field motors, so there is always magnetic flux to produce a current in the windings of the armature.

Series wound EV motors have field coils, which are not normally energized when the car isn't being powered forward. No current in the fields results in no current generated when the motor is turned by the inertia of the car coasting/slowing down.

Specialized controllers can energize the fields, but even that isn't a simple solution because series motors are usually "timed", that is the brush, armature, and field magnet positions are calculated and set in an advanced position to optimize the motor producing torque when it is powered by batteries. Attempting to cause that motor to become a generator will mean that the timing optimization is exactly opposite what it should be for producing power instead of consuming it, and the effective result is that excessive arcing and/or plasma is generated on the armature's commutator, usually ruining it. The motor can be timed in a "neutral" manner, but then it makes a less efficient drive motor, and the regen it might put out will be consumed just making up for the efficiency it lost by being mis-timed.

Series motors have some important characteristics for EV use, but they are a one-trick pony, they don't switch roles very well. This is one reason AC drive systems have so much promise.


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## houseoffubar (Nov 18, 2007)

eRubicon said:


> I'm planning the setup I described above for my eRubicon project. This will be an 06 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon conversion for pretty extreme offroad use (by EV standards). Wish I could say I'll be the first, but it's been done with a Range Rover. For me, the break pedal switch is the only way to go. Easier, cheaper. Also, with the off roading I do, No way I could maintain the optimal pedal position you describe while traversing the tuff stuff.


Sounds like a very exciting project. I would love to see an electric rock crawler. This would be an ideal use of a DC motor. The torque available at no rpm, and low energy consumption would be unbeatable . have fun!


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## eRubicon (Nov 15, 2007)

houseoffubar said:


> Sounds like a very exciting project. I would love to see an electric rock crawler. This would be an ideal use of a DC motor. The torque available at no rpm, and low energy consumption would be unbeatable . have fun!


Yeah, I rarely burn over a quarter of a tank on the longest day of rock crawling with the inline 6 ICE. In 4wd low range, I rarely even touch the accelorator. The rubicon gearing is soooo low. Can put it in 6th gear and just let off the clutch...Off you go. I'm looking forward to shifting a little less since I rarely rev the ICE past 3,000 rpms and there are 6 gears to go through. Should be able to start in 2nd and go straight to 4th for highway speed in high range.


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## WCRiot (Nov 25, 2007)

*Generator discussion*

I would like to try and get some more info on generators that are on the market. I would like to try and find something small but powerful, i know there is a limit but if you could provide some options I would like to try a few setups.

Do you guys remember seeing those small generators that are mounted to a bicycle rim that would power the headlight on the bike as the bicycle was in motion. (i know the side effects of this). Do they still make those?

What are some options for some small sized generators? Even some not so small sized gneerators, but try and keep in mind that i will be using this for braking.


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

what about using the regen brake on the stationary training bikes that use the pedal power to power the led or digital board that show your cals dis for an EV. most of those gym machines use regen braking. i was thinking of getting an old gym machine that uses regen braking and use it as a regen brake for a EV probaly on the front two wheels with two friction brakes on the back. would this work on a DC motor.and if so want parts would i need for it to be connected with controller and not damage it!!


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## b.koen (Mar 9, 2008)

just a quick thought.

motor with shaft extending from each i.e. dual shaft' rear with pulley belted to electric clutch........ like on your cars air conditioning compressor

this clutch is attached to a small generator's drive shaft. 

brake pedal switch used to turn on brake light and energize generator clutch. viola... regen. 

depending on speed, size generator... might need some kind of voltage regulation i.e. voltage doubler....tripler etc...to get to pack voltage and limiter so as not to exceed pack voltage. 

just a thought


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## 3dplane (Feb 27, 2008)

b.koen!Just a thought on your thought...about exceeding pack voltage.First to charge the pack at all you have to exceed its voltage,second the voltage is going to be clamped to the pack voltage so the excess voltage will just turn into more charging amps while raising the overall voltage a little..atleast thats my understandingBut i'm sure people have done what you are proposing or something similar.Keep those gears turning...Barna


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## ronis108 (Dec 14, 2007)

I have been driving a Prius for the past year and although I cant give you any real knowledgable info on your question, I can share some observations. ...

When you let off the gas, the display shows thgat the car is in regen mode, but you can hardly sense it in how the car slows. At speeds of under 20mph or so, if you put on the brakes, you can hear the motor whine a bit as if tghe brake pedal puts the car into major regen. THe other interesting thing is tghat there is also a positon on the drive selection for "brake". Again I cant really say what is happening for sure, but from what it sounds like, I think it is just putting the CVT into a steep gear reduction thereby usung both the ice and the usual rate of regen into a more active roll. It would seem ideal to have it just control the motor alone into higher regen. What is interesting is how when you do this and the small hybrid battery is full, it creates more noise like the motor is reving higher or something. I wonder where the regen is going. You cant just keep pumping juice into a full battery. ?

ron


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## WCRiot (Nov 25, 2007)

ronis108 said:


> I have been driving a Prius for the past year and although I cant give you any real knowledgable info on your question, I can share some observations. ...
> 
> When you let off the gas, the display shows thgat the car is in regen mode, but you can hardly sense it in how the car slows. At speeds of under 20mph or so, if you put on the brakes, you can hear the motor whine a bit as if tghe brake pedal puts the car into major regen. THe other interesting thing is tghat there is also a positon on the drive selection for "brake". Again I cant really say what is happening for sure, but from what it sounds like, I think it is just putting the CVT into a steep gear reduction thereby usung both the ice and the usual rate of regen into a more active roll. It would seem ideal to have it just control the motor alone into higher regen. What is interesting is how when you do this and the small hybrid battery is full, it creates more noise like the motor is reving higher or something. I wonder where the regen is going. You cant just keep pumping juice into a full battery. ?
> 
> ron


Your prius is using the electric motor equipped in reverse to charge the battery. This has been mentioned a few times in previous post.

My discussion was referring to an external system to help charge the battery.

Thanks for your contribution though.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

I've added a little to the regenerative braking wiki topic about this if you are interested...


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## nathan (Mar 16, 2008)

what about this company called freescale( www.freescale.com ). they do regen braking for two wheels or all four with sofware and controller for only it. does anyone know the price of these regen braking system by freescale???if anyone does or finds out plz tell me. they arent helpfull when it come to emailing try calling them.

nathan


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## GLXEV (Mar 31, 2008)

Greetings All

I am in the early stages of planning an all electric conversion. My donor car if you wish is my current VW Passat GLX VR6, 1997. I am the original owner. The plan is AC power, 312 Volt system for propulsion is considering Solectria AC55 given that this is a somewhat heavier conversion. 

To considerably increase the range I want to add a generator. I have not yet worked out the details but I have seen 5KwH - 15KwH generators that could simply attach to the shaft of the AC55. 

You would need some electrics to monitor rpm where at 1800 rpm, generator kicks in powers engine and charges batteries, less than that back to batteries. Weight is around 230 lbs (106 k).

It seems feasible however I was previously only talking to myself and I am agreeable.


Any thoughts, FAQS, things I am over looking?


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

GLXEV said:


> Greetings All
> 
> I am in the early stages of planning an all electric conversion. My donor car if you wish is my current VW Passat GLX VR6, 1997. I am the original owner. The plan is AC power, 312 Volt system for propulsion is considering Solectria AC55 given that this is a somewhat heavier conversion.
> 
> ...


Well if you want to use the AC55 you would also want to use the Solectria DMOC445 controller which has regen braking built into it... which would help improve your range.

I'm slightly confused about your generator idea.... Do you mean take a generator with a internal combustion engine, and run the generator's ICE to produce electricity AND power the driveshaft physically?
I doubt the generator's engine would be able to produce its rated power, and drive another load... plus generators don't have the most efficient or clean ICEs....


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## GLXEV (Mar 31, 2008)

MrCrabs said:


> Well if you want to use the AC55 you would also want to use the Solectria DMOC445 controller which has regen braking built into it... which would help improve your range.
> 
> I'm slightly confused about your generator idea.... Do you mean take a generator with a internal combustion engine, and run the generator's ICE to produce electricity AND power the driveshaft physically?
> I doubt the generator's engine would be able to produce its rated power, and drive another load... plus generators don't have the most efficient or clean ICEs....


The generator is a house power generator normally powered by small gasoline engine 5hp. I would mate it directly onto the shaft of the AC55.


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Congrats you've just invented degenerative braking. Anything over 1800 RPM should result in a huge increase in inefficiencies and a commensurate reduction in range.


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## GLXEV (Mar 31, 2008)

John said:


> Congrats you've just invented degenerative braking. Anything over 1800 RPM should result in a huge increase in inefficiencies and a commensurate reduction in range.


Thanks for the congrats, you will note in an earlier post I did ask if any of this was reasonable. Now for the challenge explain why that is so, that way I will actually come away with real knowledge. As opposed to John said.


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

OK. What you appear to be talking about is a couple of energy loops, motor to generator to motor, and batteries to motor to generator to batteries. The motor convert’s electrical power to shaft power, the shaft power drives the generator which converts it to electrical power this electrical power is converted to chemical potential energy in the batteries the chemical potential energy in the batteries is then converted to electrical power which passes back to the motor. Each energy conversion looses part of the energy due to the inefficiency of the conversion. Your motor might be 90% efficient at converting electrical energy to shaft energy. The generator might be around 80% efficient at converting the shaft energy back to electrical energy to battery charge recovery might be as low as 65%. The net result is that over half the energy is lost in the loop. You're better off eliminating the loops and their associated loses and just draw energy from the battery at a slower rate.


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## GLXEV (Mar 31, 2008)

John that was fair enough. Thats why I come to these forums. There are very smart people hanging about the forums. The hard part is getting those very smart people to not offer an initial DISS and give solid information.


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

Mr. Sharkey said:


> I can weigh in on the regen control. My car, having a shunt wound motor, has integral, very powerful regen braking. It's controlled fully by the throttle. You can lift your foot a little, and the motor amps drop to zero, you're coasting. Let your foot off a little more, the motor consumes inertia from the car's motion and begins returning current to the batteries. Lift your foot more and the current goes up. Let your foot off altogether and you're into full regen, and losing speed rapidly.
> 
> I wouldn't say that it takes any special aptitude to drive the car. After a short time, the throttle seems natural, and you expect that useful braking effect. I wouldn't trade regen on the accelerator for regen on the brake pedal for anything.


 I have regen on a shunt-wound powered gokart, and I completely agree. I don't have this feature on any car, but man, would that be cool. I can also imagine the benefits when driving in poor traction conditions, like mud or snow. The level of control is much better, and if you already know how to control the normal throttle, there's almost no learning curve.

The only thing I can think of that's close to this is my friend's new tractor. (ICE powered, of course). He's got a hydrostatic transmission, and the speed of the tractor follows the pedal position very predictably. It even switches between forward and reverse, without shifting, depending on the pedal position. Very cool.

Of course, that kind of precision is not really needed in a car, but I'd imagine that there are electric powered utility vehicles, such as man lifts, that incorporate pedal controls like those on my buddy's tractor. That would be quite useful. I think I read that Navitas makes EV controllers that can accomodate this kind of "shift-less reversing" with the controller.

-Mark


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

I understand the word Hybrid is evil  but I am wondering if an EV Hybrid is possible. Instead of a gas powered with electric assist, I'm thinking an EV with electric generator assist.

Would it be possible to have an EV run on a set of batteries while these same batteries are being recharged by a 10,000 60A electric generator at the same time? If the generator runs at half load it can output 5000 watts at 30A and only uses 1/2 gallon of gas per hour that the generator is running. If the EV averages 40 miles per hour then essentially you be getting 80 miles per gallon. If your on the highway going 70 miles per hour then the EV Hybrid would be getting 140 miles per gallon. I have even seen and saw mentioned 15000 watt generators. If at half load they also use about a 1/2 gallon of gas per hour. I'd imagine if at even less of a load they would use less gas.

if you cant recharge the batteries the motor is running off of, what about having two sets of batteries? 10 for the motor and 10 to be recharged and then switch them back and forth

Im thinking this would be the missing link between current gas cars and electric vehicles. The generator could simply be removed and the EV become complete electric as better batteries become more affordable


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

@GLXEV With an AC system you wouldn't even need a generator, just connect the shaft of a normal ICE to the shaft of you motor. That way you will get the right voltage to your batteries in one step. Then link the throttle of the ICE to the amount of regen braking in the motor so that it maintains a constant speed and voila you have a hybrid. We have yet to see a proper hybrid conversion tried out on the forums (unless you count a pusher trailer) so I would encourage you to give it a go. The hard part will just be sizing the right motor and synchronising the throttle so you can recharge your batteries.

@Michael that is definitely possible. You can charge the same batteries that are being used by the motor, that should be fine. 

I would honestly encourage anyone who is brave enough to try this out and if you are willing to blog the process here. I am pretty interested in how it would work.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

Thats the exact way I am going to try my EV. I have found information and people have been forwarding to me current designs that are an EV Hybrid or simply EVH. They were made with older motors and different generators. I think the idea was shunned because the ICEs on the generators where very noisy and polluted almost worse than the ICE in the cars you were trying to replace with electric motors. I think with todays electric motors and generator setups that are CARB approved the idea is worth a good look again.

My main concern is the generator overcharging the batteries. I am sure at some point the generator will catch up with the motor and provide more charge in the batteries than the electric motor is using. current recharge in ICE cars with the alternator looks like the battery is constantly going to be needing a recharge so the alternator should never actually overcharge the battery in an ICE. 



The smart charger that kicks down the charging to a trickle when the batteries are recharged http://www.manzanitamicro.com/pfc20and30.htm runs from being plugged into an AC socket. I am wondering if the recharger can be used from a 12 volt input from the generator. then I can utilize the smart charging and not over charge the batteries.


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