# Road Legal StreetQuad conversion



## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Hello!

Been lurking this awesome forum for nearly 2 years now, gathering information about all the components for a conversion and I think it's time to slowly get started on my first project.

First let me introduce myself. My name is Rob, I'm almost 24 years old and I live in the Netherlands. Currently I'm working as a maintenance mechanic for a cable company. I'm really into cars and anything else on 4 wheels, always have been. It's only since 2 or 3 years ago that I really started to like electric vehicles though. I think mainly because of the performance of the Tesla Roadster, never thought an electric could go so fast while not emitting anything. Little did I know back then. 
The more I started researching electric cars after that, the more I started to like them. And now I'm at a point where I really don't want anything else than electric anymore. Sadly for my job I'll still have to stick to gas since it's a company car. But for driving in my free time I'm planning to get a quad bike converted to electric. And maybe in the future a car when I have some more experience.

So, moving on to the project with the quad bike I'm planning.

*My skill level:* Not that great, but I know the basics since I studied for car mechanic for a few years, I just ended up doing something else. As for fabrication, I don't know how to weld and stuff like that so I'll probably have to get motor mounts and battery boxes made. Or I could start learning how to weld.  Fabricating small things like copper plates for battery connections shouldn't be a problem though, have the tools for that.
*Range:* I'd like to get a range of at least 80km (50 miles) at 80% DoD, which I think should be possible since the quad bike I'm looking for weighs only 170kg (375lbs). Not sure how aerodynamic it is, it is pretty low to the ground though. Make and model of the quad bike is a JLA Loncin Streetquad in case you want to look it up since I don't have any pictures myself yet.
*Performance:* The top speed has to be between 85-100kmh (53-62mph). Also want decent acceleration, compareable to the original 250cc motor. Not sure how fast that would be though since I haven't driven on one yet. Max 8-10 seconds to top speed I guess.
*Budget:* I want to spend around 6.000-6.500 euros ($7.800-$8.400) max for the conversion. Any more than that and I'm not really sure if it'll be worth it for a quad bike.
*Parts I've already considered:*
GBS 12v 100Ah pack x4 (for 48v system) + BMS and display
LMC LEM-200 127 Motor (contacted LMC, they suggested I use a LEM-200 D95B instead but I'm not sure which would be better)
Alltrax AXE4844 Controller (LMC suggested the Sigma PMT445 if I'd go with the D95B Motor)
Curtis PB-6 Throttle
DC DC Converter (not sure how much watt I would need)
Charger (not sure yet, needs to fit in the small frame where the gas tank currently is, do want to get a full charge within 6 hours or so though)
Cables/Connections/Mounts

With these parts I expect to be around my budget price, I'm just not sure if these parts will be good enough to get the performance I want, especially with a 48V system. Was looking for 72V as well but I'm not sure which batteries I could best use for that since I can't really fit 72V with prismatic lithium cells. The A123 pouch cells would have been nice but I guess it's not really possible anymore to get them from a reliable source.

Also, being in the Netherlands it's pretty hard to find good parts for the conversion since there has to be a CE mark on all of the electric components I'll be using to avoid an EMC (or EMI) test for road approval, which would cost 1.300 euros ($1.700).

That's about all I know right now, hoping to get some feedback on the parts I've chosen. Or suggestions for other parts that are better suited and not too expensive.  And if it's possible to do this conversion with a 48V system or I should go higher to 72V with different batteries.

Thanks in advance!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Been looking at some different parts for the quad conversion. 

- 2nd hand Agni 95-R Motor
- Alltrax 7245 Controller
- 16x Sinopoly 100Ah for 48V system
- MiniBMS
- Elcon HF/PFC 1500 Charger

This would also be within my budget but a bit better performance I think. Just need to be sure that they all have a CE marking. I know the Alltrax controller and the Elcon charger have it but don't know for the rest. Can't really find any info on it.

I'm still not sure if I should go with the Sinopoly batteries and MiniBMS or the GBS batteries with their BMS. I think the GBS might be a bit too high to properly fit in the quad frame. The Sinopoly's are lower but wider and they're black which goes better with the colors of the quad.  Performance and cycles are less than GBS though, but still enough for my chosen motor and controller I believe. Price is about the same.

Hoping to get some help, and hopefully get an answer on these two questions. Will this quad perform well at 48V with the chosen parts (85-100kmh (53-62mph) top speed and acceleration of 8-10 seconds to top speed)? And is a range of 80km (50 miles) at 80% DoD possible?


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Hello,

keep in mind that a quad has a bad coefficient of drag and also a high rolling resistance.
With 4,8kWh and ~7kW continuous motor power, I would say, 50km and 80km/h are more realistic.
Also have a look at the gearing. I would guess you are going to build a direct drive. I think the Agni is over 3000rpm at 48V and you have to fit a sprocket in the quad for that gearing. That would become more complicated if you would switch to 72V.
Did you also thought about using Calb CA cells, i.e. 22x 60Ah for a 72V system? I'm not sure if the will fit.

Kind regards
Tom


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Yeah that's true but I think the coefficient of drag will already be less with the quad I'm going for than with a usual quad where you sit higher, even though most of the wind resistance probably comes from the driver. Can't do much about the rolling resistance though, would need one with an independant rear axle and differential. But those are all pretty expensive sadly.

As long as I can get a top speed of 80-85km/h I'll be happy, don't really need to go faster than that since I don't plan on using the quad on the highways here. Range of 50km would be a bit lower than I expected though. It's still not too bad but for cruising around in the weekends it won't really get me all that far.

I'd like to go direct drive yeah, don't know about gearing yet but I think for the Agni (which is 71 rpm / V, so at 48V 3408rpm) I'm looking at a 4:1 ratio or just a bit smaller. For 72V with the Agni I'd need a 6:1 ratio which will be hard to fit I think. If I'd go with the LMC motors though, they have lower RPM and some more torque. So I would still be able to go with a 4:1 ratio at 72V. I'm just not sure about the performance of those motors, especially the LEM-200 D95B since at LMC they suggested I use that one for the conversion.

I checked the Calb CA cells but they're quite expensive compared to the Sinopoly's or GBS'. Fitting 22 cells in the small frame won't be possible either I think, fitting 16 100Ah's will already be a challenge. 22x 60Ah will also get me an even less kWh pack and I definately don't want the range to be below 50km. Also been looking for A123 pouch cells, probably easier to make a 72V pack out of those with 80 or 100Ah. Problem is just that getting these isn't so easy anymore it seems.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

I think one of the main advantage of a quad compared to a motorcycle is the possibility to put the motor on the rear swing arm and let all the available space of the original motor for the battery. (watch the second picture of the gallery)
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/10/ekrad-developing-equad-w-video/

Go with 72v for higher performance and put the maximum battery (40Ah, 60Ah or more) in the frame.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Yup, the eKRAD quad is my main inspiration for doing a street quad conversion. It's too bad there's only 2 pictures and 3 video's of it, would really like to see more. Think they stopped that project though and are now focusing on cross motorcycles.

The quad I'll be using for the conversion is very similar to theirs, it's just that they have the 'race' version so the rear bridge is a bit taller and bigger frame since it comes with a 350cc motor. The one I'll be getting is the normal 250cc version. And the electric motor will indeed be mounted in the rear swing arm. With the eKRAD quad they built a whole custom rear swing arm to fit the motor but I'm not sure if I'll do that since it's a lot more expensive than just letting it drop in slightly and build mounts to keep it in place. But I don't know if that will fit well untill I actually have the quad and the electric motor here. 

I'd really like to go with 72V but wouldn't I be sacrificing range for performance if I'd go 72V with 60Ah instead of 48V with 100Ah? Or will it actually be around the same since 72V will be easier on the motor? I'm not sure if I'll be able to fit 23-24 60Ah cells though since the space in the frame isn't all that big. Fitting 72v 60Ah with A123 pouch cells wouldn't be hard I think but with prismatic cells I have no idea. The Sinopoly 60Ah are pretty small though so that might be possible (*Edit*: I forgot these Sinopoly's are only 5C burst/impulse, which would be 300A for the 60Ah, wouldn't be enough to feed the Alltrax 7245 controller which can take 450A). The Calb CA 60Ah's however are very high (even higher than the GBS 100Ah) so that would be a problem. And the Thundersky and GBS are probably too wide. It's hard to tell though since I don't have the quad here yet, only know the dimensions.

If I were to go with 72V though, would I be able to use a LEM-200 D127 (with 3600 RPM)? Cause if I'd go with the Agni which will go up to 6000 RPM I'll have a hard time with the gearing. Would most likely need a 6:1 or even 7:1 ratio for that. With the LEM-200 D127 I'd only need around 4:1 ratio which will be easier. I'm just not sure about the performance with lower motor RPM?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Today I've been looking at the Calb cells a bit more and saw that the SE 60Ah cells have very nice dimensions. I would probably be able to fit 23 or 24 cells of those cells in the quad frame. But then I was wondering what other capacities they have for the CA series and took a look at the CA 70Ah. To my surprise they're the exact same dimensions as the SE 60Ah. Thought they would be larger since the CA 60Ah are so large (the height that is).

So that means I will probably go with the CA 70Ah cells for a 72V system, which also gives me a bit more capacity than a 48V 100Ah system. I also really like the performance of these batteries, as I've seen from Jack Rickard's video of testing them. Just need to find a supplier for them, preferably in Europe.

One question again though, should I go with 23 or 24 of these cells? With 23 I'd have 73.6V nominal, while with 24 it'd be 76.8V. I'll be using the Alltrax 7245 which can take up to 90V so for that it won't matter I guess, even when they're fully charged it'll still be below 90V. Problem is just fitting 24 of those batteries in the quad frame. With 23 cells it would already be much easier to fit. But I guess a bit less performance because of voltage sag under load even though these CA's won't sag all that much when only drawing max 450 amps (6-6.5C).

Also with a 1.5kW Charger, how long do you think it'll take to charge this rather small pack from empty to full (with 80% DoD). And would I need a 72V or 84V charger, or even 96V? I'm guessing 84V or 96V since the nominal voltage of the pack is already a bit above 72V? Haven't really done much research on chargers yet so I want to make sure I go with the right charger.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

I've contacted CALB (Europe office in Germany) and they're saying the CA 70Ah cells are not in production yet? If this would be true and it's still going to take long for them to hit production I may have to go with the SE 70Ah's. These will probably fit as well but it would be easier with the CA's since they're smaller. It's weird that I do see the CA 70Ah's in some USA webshops and with a price listed. Does anyone know if these cells really aren't available yet?


Anyway, I've decided on the motor as well now. Part list so far:

- LMC LEM-200 D127
- Alltrax AXE 7245P (will probably also get a torque control module for this)
- 24x CALB CA 70Ah or SE 70Ah
- MiniBMS
- Elcon Charger 1.5kW
- Curtis PB-6 throttle box
- DC DC Converter (can easily get them here in the Netherlands)
- Main contactor, reverse contactor, fuses, cables/connections

Think this list is pretty much final now. Just have to wait and see if the CALB CA's are available anywhere, otherwise I'll go with the SE's.

I'm sure I'll get good performance with these parts, I'm just a bit worried about the range. I would really like to get at least 80km on a charge so I hope it'll be close to that. I've seen a conversion in Belgium with the same LMC motor and lead acid batteries (72V 68Ah) claiming to get 50km range at 45 km/h though so I'm guessing with lithium I could double that at least?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

I've been given an offer of a Kelly KDH72801E controller (360A continuous, 800A for 1 min) for less money than the Alltrax 7245 (200A continuous, 450A for 2 mins).

What I like about the Kelly is the option for regenerative braking and high continuous current rating so it won't need much cooling I guess. The max amps I'll need (400A) will be just above the continuous. And it comes with torque control mode while the Alltrax 7245 doesn't.

However I've read many things about these Kelly controllers blowing up pretty fast. And the Alltrax controllers seem very reliable. For the Alltrax I could also get a torque control module from a company in Germany so that wouldn't a problem, just costs more than the Kelly.

So I'm looking for some advice, what would be the best choice?


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*



Firehuntah said:


> I'm sure I'll get good performance with these parts, I'm just a bit worried about the range. I would really like to get at least 80km on a charge so I hope it'll be close to that. I've seen a conversion in Belgium with the same LMC motor and lead acid batteries (72V 68Ah) claiming to get 50km range at 45 km/h though so I'm guessing with lithium I could double that at least?


Hello,

because of the bad coefficient of drag the range will strongly vary with speed. I calculated with 65km/h. At 45km/h I get about 100km (instead of about 60 at 65km/h). I don't know if my assumed cd fits to a usual quad. But it is in the range of the 90km of your mentioned lead acid conversion.

Kind regards
Tom


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Thanks Tom.

The quad I'll be using will be lighter (quad itself, not with batteries included) and more aerodynamic than the quad conversion with lead acid I was talking about. So I'm still hoping for a bit more range. I have no idea what the actual coefficient of drag of the quad is though, don't think anyone knows since it's a chinese quad. So I'll just have to go for it and hope for the best. 

I've also decided to stick with the Alltrax 7245. Just seems more reliable than the Kelly.

The quad has been bought yesterday, just have to wait for delivery now. So the project has officially started.


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

By the way, are you sure the Alltrax has a CE mark? I've never seen it?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

LMC in the UK claims it comes with certificate of conformity. But I asked them again, to double check if it really complies with the EMC standards. Just have to wait for a reply, and hopefully get some picture of the certificate.
But that's probably why the price is so high compared to the ones in the USA that don't come with it. No idea why else I'd have to pay 200 euros more for the same controller.

I'm also still looking for a BMS with certificate but these are hard to find. Elithion is one but is way too expensive for what I need.

I'm just not sure if the smaller parts also need to be certified, like contactors and circuit breakers. Probably not since I've not heard or read anything about this yet but need to be sure.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Turns out the Alltrax isn't certified. No idea why the price is so high then here in Europe, would be a lot cheaper importing it from the USA.

So I'm pretty much left with 2 options now:
- Go with the Alltrax controller and pay a minimum of 1300 euros for an EMC test to hopefully get it approved. This test is mandatory if any of the main components aren't certified (motor, controller, charger, DC/DC).
- Go with the 1400-1500 euros more expensive Soliton Jr with EMC kit from Rebbl and get it approved without an EMC test.

Either way, it'll be a lot more expensive than I originally planned. I'd be looking at a total of around 10.000 euros (quad bike included) which is a lot really. I do really want to do this but I'm not sure if it's worth it for a quad bike.

Does anyone know of any other controllers that are certified (and EMC tested/approved) for automotive use in Europe? Or are the Soliton 1 and Soliton Jr the only ones?


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Hello,

controllers from elektrosistem and motors from Kostov both have CE marks and both are in Europe.

Kind regards
Tom


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*



Firehuntah said:


> ...No idea why else I'd have to pay 200 euros more for the same controller....


Rebbl spent something like 39000 Euros to get our Soliton 1 and Jr controllers certified. If Rebbl hadn't taken it upon themselves to get our controllers certified my position was to simply stop selling to the EU. After all, why should I make the rest of the world pay more for my controllers just because one group of dumb-ass politicians - namely those in the EU - decided to impose a difficult and costly legislative burden on any electronic device used in a vehicle?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

That 200 euros difference you quoted was for the Alltrax controller which isn't certified. Costs around 390 euros (500 dollar) in the USA and 750 euros (970 dollar) in Europe. I don't get where that huge price difference is coming from, importing it myself would save me those 200 euros. That's why I thought it would be certified since the USA ones aren't (just like Rebbl are asking an extra 600 euros for the EMC kit).

What Rebbl has done to certify the Soliton 1 and Soliton Jr is a great thing, so don't get me wrong. I'd happily pay them the 1300-1500 euros extra for a controller that certainly gets my quad bike approved instead of having to pay that same money (or even more) to the RDW for an EMC test with a non-certified controller. I also really like the Soliton controllers so that's not the problem. Problem is that it's kinda overkill for my quad bike, and I'm not sure yet if it'll fit in the small frame. The quad bike will be here this weekend so I can finally start measuring and see if all the components I want will fit.



Semper Vivus said:


> Hello,
> 
> controllers from elektrosistem and motors from Kostov both have CE marks and both are in Europe.
> 
> ...


Only their AC controller seems to have a CE mark, and that might be like the Kelly controllers only for industrial use, can't really find more info on it. Their DC PM controllers don't put out enough amps for the LMC motor so even if they do have a CE mark, I can't get the performance I want with them.

It's great that the Kostov motors have a CE mark though, but it'll be hard fitting them on the rear swing arm of the quad bike. That's my main reason for going with the pancake style motor from LMC.
Also if I were to go with the Soliton Jr controller, the motor itself doesn't have to be certified. The certification from Rebbl's EMC kit is for the controller in combination with any brushed DC motor.


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Hi,

I didn't looked at the permanent magnet controllers from elektrosistem yet. I only know that the series and SepEx controllers have a CE mark on their case.
But what do you mean with "(...) have a CE mark, and that might be like the Kelly controllers only for industrial use (...)"?
Is there a difference between industrial use and the use in a EV for the CE mark?

Kind regards
Tom


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Yes there is a big difference. Can't use a controller that's certified for industrial use in a road going vehicle, the certification won't be valid. I would still have to get the quad bike EMC tested then. In order to avoid the EMC test it really needs to be certified for automotive use (Automotive Directives 2004/104/EC and 2009/19/EC). So far I've only seen the Soliton 1 and Soliton Jr with this certification so I think the Soliton Jr is my only option, which isn't really a bad thing but it is a lot more expensive.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

The project has officially started! 

The quad bike arrived here 2 weeks ago. I've already de-ICE'd it and started to make some paper models of the motor, controller, charger and batteries.

Here's what it looked like before I started.

















I bought it new with the intention to sell all the parts I don't need anymore as new. Price will then be around the same as a good 2nd hand of the same model so it was the best thing to do.

And here's what it looked like after taking everything out of the frame.









All of the paper models I made. 









It was a really big puzzle but I did manage to solve it as you can see here.

























I'm not 100% sure yet if it'll be like this but it was the best I could do for now. Especially if I'm going with the Soliton Jr since it's pretty big with Rebbl's EMC kit on it (it's the big box hanging on the rear). It seems to be the only choice though as there are no other controllers with the needed certification.

But I'm now sure that I'll be able to fit everything I want (after cutting some of the motor mounts, other small mounting points and the 12V battery box), it's just going to be a very long project but I'm looking forward to it all!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: Planning a road legal Quad bike / ATV Conversion*

Finished the electric wiring diagram today. Also made the whole 12V diagram since I'll be renewing that as well. The Chinese 12V system isn't that great. 










I still have to include the BMS but I'm not sure yet if I'm going with MiniBMS and how to wire it all up if I do.

I'm pretty sure about everything, except the reversing contactors. To get it road approved here there have to be 2 things that you should operate before you can reverse. First will be a forward/reverse switch ofcourse. For the second I chose to use the clutch lever, it already has a switch built in.

Now the thing I'm wondering about with my wiring diagram. If the switch would be set to reverse and the clutch lever isn't pulled, would this be a problem since the motor (either + or -) won't be connected at that point? Or would I even be shorting the controller through the reversing contactors? The reversing contactors I'll be using is the Albright SW202B, not really sure yet how to wire it up since I can't find any diagrams of it.

Also please do let me know if you have any better suggestions for this. I just thought this would be the easiest way, if it'll work that is.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I finally received my first few parts for the conversion last weekend.

The Soliton Jr. Also thanks Evnetics for the free shirt! 








I also must say that I really like the quality. Already knew it was good but it's still better than I expected. I also know it's way overkill for this conversion but it's the only one with the needed certification. Would cost me more to get the quad bike EMC tested with any other controller.

Here with Rebbl's EMC casing on it. Too bad this is necessary here, can't see anything of the good looking Soliton Jr anymore. 








Sorry it's so dirty, it came like this and tried to clean it but it doesn't come off. 

Also got the charger kit (Elcon 1500) and pretty much all of the cables I need from them. You probably all know how that looks like anyway so won't have to post pictures of that. 

Now I'm still waiting for the motor to arrive (LMC LEM-200 D127) before I can actually start. Want to have some motor and controller mounts made first but for that I need the motor here as well.

Also decided to go with the CALB CA60 cells after all, the SE70 wouldn't have been possible to fit with battery boxes around them. Still haven't ordered them though, kinda want to test the motor and controller first with some 12V batteries.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Suggestion

Certify it with minimum parts
i.e.
Without the:
DC - DC - just use a 12 volt battery
Charger
BMS (I'm not sure it is needed anyway)

Then once it is certified you can add all of the extra bits


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

That's actually a great suggestion. Would indeed be a lot easier to pass it then. Though I'm not really worried since I'm using mostly the same parts Rebbl uses and they seem to pass all of their conversions too.
The BMS doesn't have to be certified from what I've heard, I'll probably use MiniBMS. Don't really want to go without a BMS since this is my first conversion. Rather be safe than sorry for now.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Made some progress. Received almost all the parts now, except for the batteries.

The EMC enclosure for the Soliton Jr is pretty much ready to be installed now. Ended up using cable glands since the pass through rubbers didn't really fit. So this is what all Soliton's should look like now in Europe:









Too bad it completely covers up that good looking controller but well, it's the only way to pass that road test. 

Also received the LEM-200 D127 motor, really like how compact this thing is while still being able to deliver so much power. Trying to see how it fits on the rear swing arm. From the side it fits great, some space left even.









From the rear however you can see that it'll be a real close fit.









But it's either like this or having a custom rear swing arm made so I can place the motor even lower. This will probably be too expensive though.

Now I just need to get some mounting plates made for the motor and controller and I can start with all the cables, contactors and stuff. 

I also tested the controller and motor today with 2 12V batteries in series, just couldn't resist seeing the motor spin for the first time.  I limited it at 13V 10A since I used very small chinese wire. But I did see 16V going to the motor and 18A on startup, 6-7A when turning at the max speed for that voltage. It's still pretty hard to imagine how it will go at 72V and 400A since I already had some trouble keeping the motor in place with one hand.  Here's a very small clip I took. It was a bit longer but something went wrong with filming it seems so I had to cut it.






Already got a taste of the EV grin without even riding.  I've seen all these videos on youtube and all these projects here but to actually see it working with your own eyes is so awesome!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Firehuntah said:


> ...
> 
> The Soliton Jr. Also thanks Evnetics for the free shirt!


You're welcome 



Firehuntah said:


> ...
> Here with Rebbl's EMC casing on it. Too bad this is necessary here, can't see anything of the good looking Soliton Jr anymore.


That is pretty hideous looking... Not to suggest anything illegal, but... perhaps just keep the shielding installed when you get your registration (from the RDW, right?). Then remove it afterwards. I can assure you the controller works perfectly fine without all that claptrap attached.

That said, more EU citizens need to complain about these EMC rules to their elected officials. I'm not saying that minimizing EMI isn't a worthy goal, but the requirements are just too stringent - they essentially apply the same standard for noise emissions to a 150kW EV motor controller as to a 20W car stereo...


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have you considered anodizing that EMC cover? It still won't look as good as the Jr but should look better than it does now. Google "DIY anodizing" if interested.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I won't be anodizing it, seems like too much work and I don't have all those things you need for it. I will probably just spray it black and hope it stays on nicely. Otherwise I will probably go with Tesseract's suggestion and remove it completely after it's road legal.  I really want people to see that controller and not some silly box that's built all around it.  I'm sure it'll work great without it, haven't heard of any problems because of it from all you converters in the USA. Not that I'd care anyway if I drive by and someone's radio goes dead. 

Also I don't believe complaining to the officials about the EMC rules is going to help, it is such a small market here. Especially here in the Netherlands, they won't care if like 0,1% of all people will complain about it. The RDW is very strict also, last few years they have made everything for the DIY's so much harder, not just the EMC rules. Just have to accept it or try to work around it somehow.


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## dbeluscak (Mar 2, 2013)

Not sure if it would help in your region. I don't know the CE rules for the Netherlands. But everything we build in our shop has to be CE compliant. If you want I could mail you some CE stickers! Like I said, don't know how strict they are there. But if it would help I'll always help out another DIYer! I'll be following your project, looking for a donor quad of my own.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

For the initial test to get it road approved I don't think it'll help since they don't really look at the CE mark but at the documents that came with the parts. Like with the Soliton controllers, they don't have a CE mark but they do comply with the automotive standards according to the document from Rebbl. There's no indication on the controller itself. For the charger and some other parts I'm not sure though, they're all CE marked already and didn't come with any documents.
And after the road test it doesn't really matter since quad bikes don't have the safety check every year here (called APK here) since they're in the category 3-wheeled vehicles. Weird I know, it obviously has 4 wheels.  So then only the police officers could check for it. But they most likely don't know anything about electric vehicles here yet, what to look at etc. 
But I'm not really worried, I should be able to pass the test with all the parts I have now since I'm using almost all the same parts that Rebbl uses in their conversions.

Thanks for your offer though, I will keep in mind if I do need them. Also nice to know you're following this project. A quad bike is a great vehicle to convert, would be nice to see another quad bike conversion.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Firehuntah

May I suggest looking at mounting the motor below the swing arm? gives clearance to the shock without modifications and lowers teh centre of gravity. I'd only be weiry of ground clearance then. I susspect ou could 'scallop' the swing arm to move the motor higher up too, and teh motor mounts can be welded like an upside down u (n shape so slot motor up into) and would provide further rigidity to the swingarm having teh motor bolted in there. might leave some room for batteries above the motor in front of the shock also.

Looks like a great build! Keen to see the packaging, an electric quad must be great fun!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestion but like you said already ground clearance will be a problem like that. The quad bike is already pretty low to the ground and we have a lot of high speed bumps here in the Netherlands. So letting the motor stick out below the frame probably won't be such a good idea. Could end up losing the motor like that. 
Another problem is that it won't pass the inspection test like that since the electric components are not allowed to be the lowest point of the vehicle (not counting the wheels ofcourse).

Also the shock has more than enough clearance. It's hard to see in the picture since it's not connected to the swing arm there but I did test this and there's no way it could hit the motor so it's safe there.  I will take some more pictures soon so it's easier to see. The main reason I went with this type of quad is because of that rear swing arm and position of the shock, it's just a perfect mounting place for the LMC or Agni motors.

As for the fun factor of electric quads, can't tell you yet but I sure hope I can soon.  It's already taken long enough to receive all these parts so I hope to at least get the wheels moving within a few weeks. I'm sure it will be great though, especially since I've already seen what 300W can do while I tested the motor and controller. Just imagine 80 times that (~25kW) on a 200kg quad bike.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Finally some progress again. The motor plate has been made and as I hoped it fits perfectly on the rear swing arm. Also no problem at all with the suspension.



















I also tried with the chain and it has enough clearance with the frame to be placed in a straight line.










Next step are the mounting blocks for the motor plate which will be welded on both sides of the swing arm. The adaptor for the front sprocket and custom rear sprocket is also being made. Will probably get both next week already.


I've also started playing around with Sketchup and I really love this program now. So easy to work with and it really helps when actually making the real things. 
Here's the complete motor mount, can see the mounting blocks here. Also tried to make the motor look close to the real one since I was a bit bored waiting for parts. 










I also made the batteries and the boxes already. Will have 5 boxes since I can't fit the batteries in any other way in the frame.
I started making all the components: Battery, straps, bolts, lugs, cable gland, emergency switch, MiniBMS cell module and some wires.










And then I made all the boxes and wires between them. Here they are still opened.










And here they are closed. 









Still isn't done yet but it does give a good idea how it will actually be like inside the frame.


I do have a question though. Is it okay to use the emergency switch mid pack, and also the fuse and sensor for EV Display? Or is it actually better to use them on the positive wire from the whole pack? The reason I want it like this is so the pack is split when I'll be working on it or when the fuse blows. Two packs of 36V are a lot safer to work with, whenever I have to. And overall it just seems safer since the whole pack would be disconnected instead of just the positive. Or do I see this wrong?


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## scooby555 (Apr 26, 2013)

Waoow happy to c this , i'm also slowly starting up a similar project.
I'd like to make my PGO 500 electric , i also read luigi fiat 500 + agni 95r article.

so i have a few questions , where did u get your motor and why did u choose that one and not the agni or a fork lift motor ( that tread is sooo long ) ?

anyway i still have to strip my PGO from its gasoline engine, and get to the bare state before i start buying parts.............

so i'll follow your tread cause i do need some help , some being an understatement


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

That would also be a cool vehicle to convert, good luck with it. 

I got this motor directly from LMC ltd. in the UK. It's around the same price as the Agni's. I chose for this one (D127) since it has lower RPM/V than the Agni's with the same power. This way it'll be easier to gear (3.66:1 ratio with the LMC D127 vs 6:1 ratio with the Agni 95-R) since I wasn't sure if I could fit such a big rear sprocket and I don't want multiple sprockets and chains. Only time will tell if it was a good choice though since I read more RPM/V is a bit better performance wise and somewhere else I read that it doesn't matter at all.

As for a fork lift motor, I would not have been able to fit one of those in the rear swing arm, they are too big. That's also the main reason I wanted a LMC or Agni motor, it's a perfect fit.

Cool to hear that you're following this thread but I'm still a beginner myself really.  So I don't know if you'll get much help since I still need help myself sometimes.  Would probably be a better idea to start your own thread, might get more help that way.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Time for some updates again. 

The mounting blocks for the motor plate were made and TIG welded on the rear swing arm.










The adapter for the front sprocket was also made and fits nicely. It also has 2 small channels for the RPM sensor. Still have to make a small mounting plate for that.










Here you can see how much I was able to take off the original chain. So nice that I could fit the motor there. It's a lot better also since chain tension will always be the same. If it were mounted in the frame it would constantly change because of the suspension.










And here I shortened it and tensioned it. Pretty nice to finally have this attached, first step of the build-up completed. 










The sprockets aren't perfectly aligned though, so I will still need to get some sort of adapter made for the rear sprocket as I can't move the front sprocket more outside because of the frame that's in the way. 



I also finally received the CALB batteries today. I got them from a different company though, here in the Netherlands (New Electric) as there was a delay in the shipment to CALB's Europe office and I would have had to wait even longer which I didn't really want. These were also delivered with the braided straps and nord-locks which I already wanted to get anyway so it's pretty nice.










I measured the voltage of them all, numbered them and put them back in the box again untill I'm done with mounting the other components (controller, charger, reverse contactor).










11 of them were at 3.286V and the other 13 at 3.287V so that's very nice. I'll be top balancing them though and using MiniBMS to keep them balanced and protected.

Still have to see if I can actually mount them all how I've drawn it in Sketchup. Then I can order all the ABS plates and make all of the boxes. Should be fun. 

That's all for now. More updates soon hopefully.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Firehuntah
Did you consider a belt drive? Why ratio is your chain drive? And what size are the tyres please? Working out what motor speed you will be using and how much mechanical advantage you get. 
I am really impressed with your build. Though I can't wait to see you for those batteries in. They will be the deal maker. 

Why did you not want more power dense cells? Kokham are supposed to be good, not a123 good, but next best thing. And power dense too meaning more cells and more volts and higher c rating for acceleration.

I look forward to the progress.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Hello Tyler, thanks for your kind words and helping out.

Yes I did consider belt drive and I might still try that in the future as I like how silent it is and maintenance free. For now though I want to try with chain since it's a bit easier to play with the ratio to get the speed and acceleration I want. After that I might switch to belt drive. There's just not much space for a wide belt and I'm not sure if the smaller timing belts that are used in gas cars are going to hold up. I can only find pictures of these motors being used with pretty wide belts.

The current sprockets are 12 teeth front and 44 teeth rear so 3.67:1 ratio. I'm hoping to get a top speed of around 85 km/h with good acceleration like this. Will hopefully see if it's possible soon. 

Size of the rear tyres is 270/30 R14. I'll be replacing them right away though as these are specially made oval shaped chinese tyres.  I will probably get 225/40 R14 tyres.

I can't wait either till those batteries are mounted in the frame, hopefully won't take long.  I chose these CALB CA's since they can give all the power I need without any troubles. The motor can 'only' handle 72V with 200A continuous and 400A peak which is easy for these cells. And as seen on EVTV they perform very well, even in cold weather. Also not much voltage sag. I really like these brick type cells anyway, easier to install. Especially with the size of these 60Ah's.
Besides I'm not only focusing on performance. It's nice to have some decent acceleration but I also want to be able to drive around for a while and not have empty batteries within 10 miles or so. 



And some update again.

Today I tried fitting the batteries in the frame and to my surprise they fit even better than I had hoped. Instead of 5 boxes I will only have to make 4 now.





































So now I can order all those ABS plates and make the boxes.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Very nice Firehuntah. Can I suggest covering the terminals on the batts as you don't want to short one! 

Great to see them in there! Fit very well as you say.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Don't worry, I'm very careful with these cells and they're already back in the box again.  It's pretty hard to short these cells on the frame anyway since the vent sticks out between the 2 terminals and there was no metal directly in front of them. 

Once I start connecting them I will cover them up though, and isolate my tools as well.


By the way, I still don't know if I should connect the sender unit of the EV Display, the main fuse and the emergency switch mid pack or on the positive line to the controller. What would be better/safer? I'd like to place them mid pack since between the batteries I can use different wires without shielding while the positive and negative of the whole pack will be shielded wires so they're harder to work with. I also like the fact that if anything happens and the fuse blows or I have the use the emergency switch that the pack will be split into two 36V packs.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Firehuntah said:


> ...
> By the way, I still don't know if I should connect the sender unit of the EV Display, the main fuse and the emergency switch mid pack or on the positive line to the controller. What would be better/safer?...


Either is fine, and technically speaking, electrically equivalent. In a fault condition which results in two points on the pack contacting the frame (etc.) at the same time, putting the emergency disconnect contactor in the middle of the pack is better because it has a statistically higher chance of preventing the above fault from occurring.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Okay mid pack it will be then. Just seems safer if anything would ever go wrong (hopefully not of course!). And also when working on the pack, 2 x 36V is always safer than 72V. I haven't experienced any high voltage shock yet though so I'd like to keep it that way.  I'm sure 72V DC will already hurt quite a bit.

Thank you very much for answering my question.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Time for some updates again. It's been a while and there's hasn't been that much progress really. But there have been some important changes.


I had to replace the coupler for the front sprocket as the set screw to hold the coupler in place was in the same line as the cutouts for the RPM sensor. So ofcourse this would never work well (it wasn't my idea to have set screws ). I had a lot of trouble taking this coupler off though and found out that it had damaged the motor's axle a bit. So I already had a bit of repair work to do and had another coupler made just the way I wanted it from the beginning. It turned out quite well but still not perfect. Especially since I needed a keyslot in the coupler and it's been very hard to find someone who could do this. Fortunately I did find someone and I'm pretty much having everything made there now since they do a good job.

Anyway, here's the new coupler with the sprocket on it.









And attached to the motor's axle.









You can also see that I mounted the sensor already, but I need a new mounting plate for this as well as this one isn't good enough. It's a bit too high, the top nut isn't using the full thread on the sensor. Can't really adjust the sensor any lower because of that. So that will be fixed soon.


I also had a coupler made for the rear sprocket so I could put this more inwards to get both of the sprockets aligned.









Mounted on the rear axle of the quad bike (Forgot I actually needed 6 cap nuts instead of 4, will also be fixed soon )









But as you can see here the chain is perfectly straight now. Also measured this and turned the wheels a few times to see how the chain sits on the sprockets. I don't think it could be any better.









Side view.









So the motor part is finally done now, doesn't need any more changes.


Battery boxes I'm working on, but they're still not done yet. More on this soon. They're all made from 3mm ABS plastic and I really like the strength and weight of it. It's been easy to make and glue together. I just still want to plastic weld them on the outside and that's where I'm having some problems. The welding itself is no problem but the plastic just bends too easily when heated. Already had to take 3 boxes apart again since the batteries wouldn't fit anymore. But I'll figure it out and hopefully have them done as well soon.
Here's the biggest battery box, still not done. It's already looking a lot like how I made them in Sketchup though.










I'm having mounts made now for the Soliton Jr which will be mounted to the frame here.









After these are done and the Soliton Jr is hanging on there I should be able to get the wheels moving after connecting some cables. So hopefully more updates soon!


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## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> That said, more EU citizens need to complain about these EMC rules to their elected officials. I'm not saying that minimizing EMI isn't a worthy goal, but the requirements are just too stringent - they essentially apply the same standard for noise emissions to a 150kW EV motor controller as to a 20W car stereo...


If they can be achieved by bolting that leaky sloted box to your kit you can't be far off mark already. Is the EMC kit just that box or is there a ferrite set in there too?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

There's more to it, not just the aluminium enclosure. Shielded cables have to be used from battery pack to controller and from controller to motor. The shielding from these cables has to be earthed on the enclosure. You also need to place RFI filters (ferrite set as you call it) on these cables as close to the terminals as possible. And Rebbl also modifies some things on the inside which ofcourse I don't know anything about, their secret recipe.  Only if this complete package is done and installed you can pass inspection here in Europe.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Big update this time.

The mounts for the controller are finally made. While waiting for them I got a bit bored so I tried to make a 3d model of the Soliton Jr. Think it turned out pretty well, just can't get it to shine like the real one. 










But anyway, the mounts for this controller. My thought was that this cool looking controller just needed cool looking mounts. So I went all out drawing these and had them made. Still had a 25mm aluminium plate here so they used that one. It's definately strong enough.  They also made a small mounting plate for the RPM sensor since the one I made myself didn't really look so good.










Mounts on the frame. Had to use some rings on the rear mounting points to get the mounts straight since they were more to the inside of the frame than the other 2.










And here with the Soliton Jr placed on there. Still have to put that enclosure around it but for now I rather see the controller itself. 










Then I just couldn't resist and started to connect some cables so I could see the wheels spinning.  I just used some small wires for this.










And yes, I finally achieved one of my goals for this project to get the wheels spinning! EV grin was definately present.  Only at 20V 50A, though I didn't really get higher than 25A. Probably because of the small cables I used or that the motor just went to 20V quickly without needing much amps. There's no load on the wheels afterall.






Wheels or the rear axle seem to be a bit unbalanced though so will still have to check what's up with that. But maybe it's just because there's no weight on the axle in the video.

Probably another update tomorrow as I've placed some bigger cables to the controller and motor. Want to try and make my first test run with a bit more power.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The first test drive has been a success!  Now I really know what the EV grin feels like. 

I used some bigger test cables for this to see if I could push some more amps through them.










Also used EV display so I could see how many amps I'd be drawing and to see voltage.










I placed 2 12V starter batteries in the frame, figured that would be enough for a first test ride.










Also mounted my other new toy. 










And then it was ready to go outside for the first time. 










Though I expected just a bit more power from these starter batteries I still had a lot of fun! It was drawing 50-60A sometimes, didn't really get much higher. The Soliton Jr was set to 25V max to motor and 120A battery/motor. The voltage sag was pretty bad too, ran out of power rather quickly. But yeah, starter batteries aren't made for this. The first few runs were great though and still at the end with pretty much empty batteries it managed to crawl uphill. To me that really shows how strong it already is, even at less than 1kW. I just can't wait now to test with the lithium pack. Just still have to get the battery boxes done and figure out how to secure them properly on the frame.

Anyway here's the video that was made.


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Just read the entire build, great to see someone else from the Netherlands build EV stuff. Keep up the good work, i am really interested in the part were the RDW has to legalize it.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

It's been a while but I think it's time for another update.

Also sorry Eric for the very late reply, but well.. better late than never right? Getting the approval from the RDW will be quite a challenge yeah and I'm really looking forward to it. With everything I work on for the quad bike I really have to make sure that it'll give no problems for the RDW. But I think it'll go just fine, have to wait and see though. I see you're converting a go-kart, very nice. It's coming along nicely as well I hope?


After that first test drive the project has been on hold for about 6 months. I had quite a few side projects (not EV related), some personal stuff happened and also became unemployed (which I sadly still am). So yeah, nothing much has happened in that time. But since march I've been busy with it again. First off I finally got around to making a blog so I could store all of the information, pictures and videos in one easy to find place. That took quite some time as I made the blog myself, it's not just some basic template and code. And that's just how I am, I always like to challenge myself to see what I can do. Turned out pretty good I think. If you're interested you can find the link to my blog in my signature. It's in both English and Dutch.

Anyway back to the actual project. In april I started working on the quad bike again. As I was working on the battery boxes for a very long time already I just had to finish these first. So that's what I did. I made clamps which hold all of the cells in place, and they're also used as mounting points for the covers. Rivet nuts are really great for this, I also covered them with rubber so there's never a chance of them touching anything high voltage. And I added some rubber between the box and cover to make them more waterproof.



















And test fitting them in the frame. To actually attach them to the frame I'll be using some steel corner profiles and put some steel tabs on both these profiles and the frame so I can bolt them onto the frame. I don't think welding plastic tabs on the boxes will be strong enough to keep such heavy boxes in place.



















The charger fits nicely in the middle as well, I'll just have to bend the rear mounting points down a bit so I can just place some tabs on the frame there as well. On the front it's easier to attach, can just use some long bolts and let them drop down from above.










I also got a new throttle. Was thinking about getting the Magura but after reading about it on some other forums I decided to go with a Chinese one instead since these have hall sensors and should last a bit longer. All the popular ones like the Magura or the expensive Domino use a potbox which wear out a lot faster. I did already have the Evnetics throttle and I really do like it. But the thing is, I never really liked throttle cables, especially when they break. And I had to build another enclosure for it to keep water and dust away while the space is already limited in the frame. So I thought it would just be easier to get one of these throttles. Or two actually, they're Chinese so I need one as backup.










I also got a new speedometer which I can use to display the voltage of the 12V lithium battery I'll be using and temperature of the motor. And I also have the EV display and a seperate RPM gauge. So I want to have plate made for these as well and to add a few switches. It'll be bent on the red line so they're aimed more towards me when sitting on the quad bike.










Fitting it with a paper model. It's an old version though, the drawing above is how it'll actually be made.










I also had to buy the standard mode 3 type 2 inlet since the RDW doesn't approve anything else anymore. But I'm happy with it now anyway, looks a lot better than a CEE inlet. So I'll need a mounting plate for this as well, it'll be in the same place where the gas filler cap used to be.










Again fitting with a paper model.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

A while ago I also made a drawing for some other mounts. These are meant for a top case and the rear lights.










The usual paper model again. 










They were actually finished yesterday and are looking great. They fit perfectly, couldn't be any better I think.





































And finally a picture of how the quad bike looks like right now. The back is pretty much done, now I need to do something about the middle and front. 










I must say that I really like doing this project, definately something I'd like to do again in the future. And it isn't just an EV project to me anymore, I'm also trying to improve this Chinese quad bike in every way possible.  Really looking forward to the day I can actually do a real test drive.

More info and pictures about this all can be found on my blog. I'll update this thread more often as well now, probably every time I update my blog.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today I modified the smallest battery box a bit since this one didn't fit very well below the carbon front fender (which comes on top of the red one ). First I just cut a small part off to try.










But this just wasn't enough, so I had to cut off some more. Because of this I had to move the mounting points for the cover to the outside and there's also no clamp for the batteries on this side. But this isn't really a problem for this box since this will be placed almost straight up, the one clamp on the other side should be enough.










Also made a new cover since this had to be a bit longer. The bending went pretty well.










After that I made the holes in it, attached it and evened it out nicely. Then I tried fitting it again. Fits reasonably good now. Still not perfect but I can't cut anything off it anymore. If it won't work out like this I'll unfortunately have to modify the carbon fender a bit. But I think it'll be fine.










And a new layer of EPDM rubber inbetween to keep any water out.










Also rounded off the corners on all battery boxes where the steel corner profiles will come up against since the corner profiles are a bit rounded on the inside as well. Tomorrow I can start making these corner profiles to size.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The corner profiles for the rear of the battery boxes are done. Now I still have to work on the ones for the front/cover but that'll take some more effort since I have to cut a few parts out for the cable glands and bolts.



















I also bought some extra enclosures to place some other high voltage parts in. Bit easier than making something myself again. The DC-DC converter, sensor for the volt/amp meter and the main fuse will come in this large one. It'll be placed where the gastank used to be. It really fits perfectly, took a good guess for the sizes. It only wasn't available in black so it still has to be sprayed.



















And this smaller one is for splitting up the high voltage cables to the DC-DC converter and charger and for both a seperate fuse. It'll be placed where the 12V battery used to be. It fits nicely as well and there's still enough space for the big orange cables which will run to the motor.



















Then I also still have this one for some 12V things (main board for the Battery Management System and a few relais). Think I'll just place this one on top of the large enclosure, there's still some space for it.










Tomorrow and in the weekend I'll continue again with the corner profiles so these can hopefully get welded next week.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Past few days I've been busy drawing the whole wiring diagram. I'm pretty sure everything will actually be connected like this now. Only those 3 wires of the Battery Management System I'm not really sure about how to connect them yet. I can't use the Soliton input for this since I'm already using all 3 inputs (start input, reverse input and throttle limit input for switching between 2 drive modes). But the manual of MiniBMS is pretty clear so I can probably just use the diagram for hall sensors and it should work fine.

Also made 2 extra circuits in it with a few buttons and relays. The one on the top left is for switching between low power (Drive Eco), high power (Drive Sport) and Reverse. And the one in the middle is for starting and stopping the charge process when the charge plug is connected. I might still get an actuator for this so the charge plug will get locked with this circuit while charging.










If you see any errors or have any suggestions on how to wire certain things in a better way, please do let me know. 

I've also been trying to get a few tachometers to work but was unsuccesful. But I now have another new tachometer, this time one from Hong Kong for 10 euros. And third time's the charm, this one works perfectly. 










For the rest I've still been busy with the corner profiles on the side of the covers. Have to make quite a lot of cutouts in them for the cable glands and bolts. So this'll still take me a while. But for this battery box they're all done, still 3 to go.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The corner profiles which are going to be holding the battery boxes in place are finally all done.



















For the small box I had to do something different, this will be 2 seperate parts which can be attached to eachother and also to the frame. But you'll see this when it's welded, it's hard to explain.










Here's everything together. It all fits perfectly and is ready to get welded now. I'll only get these corner profiles welded first, it's a bit easier to see where the mounting points will have to come once everything's stuck together.










Hopefully this can be done coming week but after that it'll take some time again to make all the mounting points.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The corner profiles are all welded now. Done very nicely again by the same welder that welded the blocks onto the rear swingarm back then. He also grinded off the welds on the outside already. I still had to grind some off myself on the inside to make everything fit well.










I just wonder how it'll fit once everything has been sprayed but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. There's also no clearance at all anymore now between the frame and the 2 big battery boxes so it's important now that the mounting points will get welded in exactly the right spots. But I'll still have to make them all, will keep me busy for a while.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Looking very good! This is going to be an impressive build and vehicle when finished. I hope the motor gives you the performance you want, it should be good though. Keep doing great work sir.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tyler!

I hope so too but as long as it outperforms the original 250cc engine I'll be happy with it. And an upgrade is always possible, that's the nice thing with the LMC and Agni motors as they're all the same size. But I'll know very soon how it'll perform when I go for a real test ride.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Much has happened again this week. I completely dismantled the quad bike so that all parts of the frame can be sprayed soon. Was pretty fun since I've literally had each and every part of the quad bike in my hands, I know exactly how it all fits together now. I've also come across certain things that I'll be replacing right away with better alternatives, especially the bearings and the bushings in the front swingarms and rear swingarm.










I was able to remove the whole brake system without even having to disconnect a single brake line.










And this is what the quad bike looks like right now, only parts everywhere.










I already removed the bushings in all of the swingarms. These are all still new bushings but they don't really look like that. These Chinese bushings also don't really work like rubber bushings are supposed to work, they're actually hinging in the swingarm itself instead of in the rubber so it's steel on steel. This will wear out very quickly, especially since there was no grease at all anywhere. The plan is to place POM bushings in here, works much better and lasts much longer too.










I also got some new parts again. These are all the wires that I'll need to make the whole wire harness.










There's also a handle switch and 2 mounting points for the mirrors. And also a seperate killswitch with cord so the high voltage will be disabled if I leave the quad bike in any way.










But the most important is that the gauge and charge plate are done and they turned out very nicely again. Everything fits perfectly again as well. I just can't really show yet how it'll all be mounted exactly since the quad bike is dismantled but to give an idea I've made a few pictures.




























I'm working on making all of the mounting points to size now, these might get welded to the frame this coming week then.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The less good news first. I wanted to remove the bearings and axle from the bearing house so I can soon place much better bearings of the brand SKF in here instead of the Chinese bearings. This just didn't go so well on one side, a piece of the bearing house broke off and there's a small crack as well. So I can't use this one anymore.










But I did get everything out so at least I know how everything fits together now.










Here's one reason already why I don't want to use these Chinese bearings. Just look at the difference between the 2 bearings, the one on the left has no grease at all in there while these are still new closed bearings. But they're bad quality anyway, these bearings break very quickly. Especially that one without any grease.










Meanwhile I already got a new bearing house. There were also bearings in this already but everything went well removing them this time.










And then the good news. All mounting points for on the frame and the battery boxes are finally done. Was quite a bit of work, especially since I had to make these to size using only a bench vice, hammer and file. But they can all hopefully get welded within a few days now.










The ones for the smallest battery box up front were the hardest because they needed a few corners and a part that's skewed. But they turned out pretty good, definately strong enough for the 2 batteries that are going in there.



















I also made the holes in the front fender already with mounting points for the charge plate. Ofcourse I used rivet nuts for this again.



















Hopefully another update soon once everything's welded.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

This weekend I took the time to take on the frame. There were still some small parts of the old mounting points on there which I had already cut off last year. You can't see anything of them anymore now. I also removed a few other mounting points which aren't needed anymore and took off the paint in the spots where the new mounting points will be. So I really have everything ready now to get it welded, just have to wait a bit till the welder has some time.










Also made the corner profiles already which will be mounted across the frame. These will be carrying and dividing the weight of the battery boxes. It was just tricky to get it all to fit, I really don't have a millimeter to spare anywhere. So I just grinded them out a bit so the frame's tubes fit right in.



















But now I can't really do all that much anymore till everything is welded. So I'll have to wait once again.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

All mounting points have been welded. It all went well and it's been done very nicely.














































I'm now working on drilling the holes and tapping threads. It's quite tricky to get all the holes aligned properly but it's going pretty good so far. I just still need a few evenings to finish this I think.










I also need quite a lot of bolts again which I'll hopefully have tomorrow. Then I can see if I'm able to succesfully attach everything.
Meanwhile I'm already trying to find a sandblasting company so that all parts of the frame can get sandblasted and then sprayed as soon as possible. But since the construction workers holiday has just started again here it's not really going well. There's a big chance that I won't get this done the coming 3 weeks.

I also received some neoprene shock covers from DirtSkins. Don't really need them just yet but I already got them for when I'm going to rebuild the quad bike. Hopefully the shocks will last a bit longer with these. I also like how they look.










And that's it again, hopefully another update at the end of this week.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Good news, I finally have everything done for sandblasting. This weekend I worked really hard to get everything to fit and also rounded off all corners and sharp edges.

First some pictures with everything in, the mounting points still weren't made to size here and still no corners rounded off.



















And here with everything out, looks pretty nice. And it's also very strong, I'm really happy that I decided to go with 3 mm steel instead of aluminium.










Then I took everything apart again and placed all parts that have to be sandblasted together. There are quite a few parts.




























So these are also the last pictures with that ugly glossy white and all those bare spots. Hopefully I can go the sandblaster this coming week already, I'll keep you updated.

Meanwhile I also had some new bushings made of the material POM. The small ones are all for the front swingarms en the 2 big ones for the rear swingarm. These are replacements for the bad rubber bushings (front swingarms) and needle bearings (rear swingarm). POM is very suitable for this, it's very wear resistant and smooth. Many quad bike riders use this material as replacement and are very happy with it. I still don't know myself since I can't place them yet till everything is sprayed.










I also got some new bearings for the front wheels and rear axle of the brand SKF. These will last much longer than the original Chinese ones that were in there.










In the bearing house I also had a slight modification made. The speed sensor of Trail Tech is quite a bit smaller than the original one and also has a different thread (3/8 inch). To be able to mount the sensor in the same spot a bushing was placed in there, works perfectly.



















That was it again, hopefully another update soon with a sandblasted frame.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Past few days I've mostly been busy making a new protective cover for the motor. The original one which was on it I can't use since the cable shoes won't fit in there and it's definately also not safe to touch which isn't so good for the safety inspection of the RDW. This is the original one.










While making this protective cover I also wanted to try something new again since the epoxy I still had left had already become hard. I got a bottle of acetone en put this together with some pieces of plastic in a jar. Waited a day and then I had liquid plastic. All connections of the different pieces of plastic I just melted together with a soldering gun and filled up all openings with this liquid plastic. While it did need a bit longer to harden than glue or epoxy it has definately become very strong. And it also looks very nice after filing and sanding. I also used this to fill up some small gaps on the battery boxes.




























Took me a few days to get the protective cover all done but it eventually turned out pretty good. Here's the part that gets attached to the motor.










Then the cover can go on it.










The cable shoes and rubber isolators I can just put on with a closed cover, so that's pretty nice.



















With this protective cover you can't touch anything high voltage anymore, not even from the rear. So this should be good enough for the RDW I hope. But I also think it's better myself and it's also a bit thinner than the original so there's a bit more clearance with the frame.










I also sanded all boxes one last time, so these are also finally all done now. Meanwhile all of the frame parts are with the sandblaster. If everything goes well I can already pick these up tomorrow evening, so it's very exciting. After that everything can be sprayed.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Tonight I went to the sandblaster. All parts of the frame are done and all look the same now. I already left them all at the company where my sister works so she can start spraying it all. We put all parts together there, already looks pretty nice. First a layer of epoxy will come on it all, then all the spray coats.




























The spraying will probably take a few weeks since everything will have to be done inbetween work or outside of working hours and it's quite a lot of work. But at least I know for sure that the result will be very nice. The coming weeks I do still have some things to do, first I can finally start cleaning the whole workspace and prepare everything for when the sprayed parts will come back.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today 2 layers of epoxy were sprayed on all of the sandblasted parts. Black epoxy for all the parts that will be matte black and white epoxy for all the parts that will be matte white. I was able to help with sanding some of the parts and mixing the white epoxy. But the spraying was ofcourse done by my sister. It really looks very nice already, would already love to take it all home.


















































































I'm really curious now how it'll look like when the actual spraycoats are on there but I have to be patient for that. Next Saturday all of the black parts will probably be done though. The white parts will come after that and are also some more work.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Wow... You are definitely giving evmetro and steelneck some serious competition for who does the most bat-$hit crazy restoration/conversion... that new plastic cover for the motor brush end really takes the prize!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks! That's very nice to read.  I really try my best to make everything look as good as possible. I don't know if I'm anywhere near the level of evmetro and steelneck though, I'm really impressed with their builds as well.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The enclosure that will come on the controller has been sprayed in black epoxy as well yesterday evening. This will probably only stay on it temporarily till after the road inspection of the RDW. A different better looking enclosure will come on it then. But for now I wanted it to look good since there were quite a few scratches and fingerprints on this one. This will also become matte black.










All plastic parts were also sprayed with primer, so no epoxy for these. First a picture before spraying.










And after spraying.










I have yet to actually see it myself but on these pictures that my sister sent they're looking very nice already. This Saturday all parts that will become black will probably get their spraycoats. So it'll be very exciting again.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

This weekend all of the black parts were sprayed. I think it took more time to hang and stick everything than the actual spraying but it's very nicely done again. First a picture before the spraying again.










And here everything with 2 matte black spraycoats.




























Close-up of the biggest battery box, can see very good how nice they've all become.










To be sure we let the battery boxes dry with normal temperature for a day. They should be able to handle a bit of heat but I've already had so many problems with them that we just didn't want to take any risk of something coming loose again. Tonight I went there again to take everything home. First we wrapped everything so nothing would be damaged during the ride home and at home I could unwrap everything again.



















All parts of the frame will be next, in that nice matte white color. But these will only be done in 2 weeks so have to be patient again. Meanwhile I can continue a bit with some of the black parts though. Just have to be very careful with them now.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today was a very exciting day again. All parts of the frame were sprayed in the beautiful color Bianco Canopus. I've seen this color on pictures with Lamborghini's often but never on a frame so I really had no idea what it'd look like. But I'm really happy that I chose this color. It looks really great, especially when there's some light shining on it. And my sister has done a really good job again, don't think anyone could get it any better looking than this.

As usual here's a picture again before the spraying. The layer of epoxy is a bit sanded here so it already looks like matte white.










And after the spraying. Much light in the spray booths so it already looked very nice.










Wrapped everything again to get it home without any damage. It all barely fits in my car.










At home I unwrapped everything again and right away I placed a fender on it to see the combination of the 2 colors. I think it looks really awesome. I made these pictures with flash so you can see a little how this color looks like with some light shining on it. But outside with sunlight, and also with you own eyes, it looks even better.




























Tonight I already started building it up. First I placed the new SKF bearings and glued the magnet for the speed sensor.



















Then I attached the lower front swingarms with the POM bushings in it and the shocks to the frame. Pretty fun knowing that this is finally the last time attaching everything.










Also placed the shock covers already. Looks a bit odd still but I kinda have to see it when everything is attached.










The plan was to spend the whole day tomorrow to continue building it up but unfortunately I have a problem with my car that has to be fixed before Monday so I think I'll be working on that the whole day tomorrow. So the quad bike will still have to wait a bit.

In about 2 weeks the last parts will also be sprayed. These are all of the routed aluminium parts. So I'll have to be patient with those again but if they turn out the same way then it's definately worth the wait.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today I managed to solve the problem with the car pretty fast so I still had some time this evening to continue with the quad bike. I greased all of the ball joints some more and placed new dust caps on them. Then I just continued a bit longer than usual so I could still attach both of the steering knuckles and upper swingarms. It's really starting to look good already. Also those black POM bushings really match well with the color of the frame. I think with white POM bushings it wouldn't have looked as good.



















Tomorrow I'll continue again with the wheel hubs, brake discs and the wheels themselves. I only can't attach the rear swingarm yet, the motor will have to go on there first but I need the aluminium parts for that. So this will still have to wait. I can already place some of the black parts though and maybe even start with the batteries already. In any case I have enough to do now.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Very nice sir. That is going to be a very nice and fun vehicle!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tyler!  That's what I'm hoping for yeah, hopefully a test ride will confirm that soon.  I think it should be possible to get it ready for a test ride some time in October. Really looking forward to it.


Tonight I continued again. The wheel hubs with brake discs and the bumper are now attached. And the quad bike can stand on the ground again at the front since the wheels are also on it already.





































Also placed the POM bushings in the rear swingarm already so it's ready to get attached as soon as the motor is on there. But untill then the quad bike still has to stay off the ground at the rear.










The front brake system and the track rods I also can't attach for now. The steering shaft and handle bar has to be attached for this first. But the part the keeps the steering shaft in place will be sprayed together with the aluminium parts. This part also got back from the sandblaster very late, that's why it hasn't been sprayed yet. Think I can only continue with a few of the black parts now. Meanwhile I'm running out of space here, the quad bike keeps getting bigger but there are still many parts on the floor. So I'll first have to see how I can deal with that.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

My sister had a little surprise for me today. While I was busy making some space so I could turn the quad bike around she was already spraying a layer of epoxy on all of the aluminium parts. This was actually going to be done next week so that was definately nice to hear. She also sent a few pictures again.

Here before spraying. All parts were also sanded a bit.





































And after spraying.














































This Saturday they will all be sprayed in the same color as the frame and I can take them home again. I'm really curious how these parts will look like in that nice color.

Tonight I only made some space and turned the quad bike around so it's easier for me to work on. A few of the black parts are also attached now. Looks very nice in combination with the white, just can't really see it well yet in the picture.










The coming days I'll probably be busy with some of the smaller boxes already placing some electric components in them.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The last few days I've been been busy filling up one of the boxes with components and wiring them all up. Quite a challenge to stuff as much as possible into it. The plan was to get all this in.










I just started wiring up the 2 bigger relays, these are for the 3 drive modes (low power, high power, reverse). All wires are soldered directly onto the contacts. The mounts for these kind of relays take up too much space.










I wanted to do the same with the small relays but this wasn't such a good idea. They still took up too much space to be able to place them in the same box. The contacts also kept breaking when I was moving the wires a bit.










So for these I still bought some circuit boards and they will come in a seperate box. Should still have some space for that on the quad bike.










Already soldered the relays onto them. With some spacers inbetween the circuit boards I can stack 3 of them.










But that box will come later, still have to start on it. For the other box I was working on I made a plate that fits right in. I can screw all of the components onto that. Also wired these all up already. The bigger one is the main board for the BMS (Battery Management System) and the smaller one is to convert a pulse signal from a switch to on/off.










And here's everything in the box, it all barely fits. There are quite a lot of wires that have to go outside of the box. Still have to get some cable glands that I can place in the box but I'll wait with that untill I have the other boxes done as well.










Later on I'll have some more news if all goes well, in any case I'll have enough to do again this weekend.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

As promised, another (late) update today. The aluminium parts were sprayed today and are back home. I really have everything here at home now so it only depends on me now how fast the quad bike will be finished. Here are some pictures from after the spraying. My sister has really done a good job again, it all looks very nice again.





































And here they are back home all nicely put together. I'm happy that I won't have to get back any more parts because it's really full here now.










Ofcourse I immediately continued building it up again. First I placed the complete front brake system. Just like it came out without having to remove even one brake line it went back in again.



















Then I greased and placed the steering shaft and track rods. Also attached the handlebar with the gauge plate on it since I won't be placing the fenders yet for the test ride soon (front fender can only be placed when the handlebar is off).



















And I placed all of the gauges and switches on it, looks very nice again.










Tomorrow I'll continue again, I think the rear swingarm might be going in.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today was a very productive day. The quad bike is nicely standing on 4 wheels again. This morning I started with attaching the motor to the rear swingarm. I just needed a rubber hammer to get it on there because of the thick layer of paint on the blocks and plate but at least it's firmly on there now.










I also placed the new protective cover on it. Definately looks much better than the original.










Then I wanted to place the rear swingarm onto the frame. Wasn't really easy since it weighs about 15 kg in total with the motor on it. With the POM bushings in it it's also just a bit wider so I had to push the mounting points on the frame outward a bit. After that I was able to get it in pretty good with some help of the rubber hammer again and a few extra hands.










Shock with shock cover attached and the bearing house in the rear swingarm.










Then I placed the rear axle and added the rear sprocket and brake disc to it. Also placed the chain and tensioned it already.










And then I could place the wheel hubs and the wheels themselves. Finally the quad bike is standing on all 4 of its wheels again.










Also still placed the whole rear brake system.










And then I thought it was enough for today. Tomorrow afternoon and evening I'll continue again. What I did already notice is that the quad bike rolls much easier now than before. Think this has something to do with the new bearings. Always had to push it a lot harder when the old bearings were still in it. Or perhaps the brake pedal for the rear just wasn't properly adjusted, this is also quite better now I think.

Just another picture of how the quad bike looks like right now. Really starting to look like something again.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today the mounts for the controller and top case were placed. I still really like the look of them.



















I also put part of the temporary aluminium enclosure around the controller and placed it on the mounts. While it's an ugly enclosure I think it looks much better than before now it's matte black. It still is a shame that the controller itself won't be visible for now though, untill I can make something else for it.



















The charger is also attached. This is hanging nicely in there as well now.




























I think I'll start with charging the batteries one by one at the same level tomorrow. Meanwhile I can continue filling up the other boxes with components and connecting some wires again.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today I finished the second box. It's also completely stuffed now with only relays.

First I made a plate again to which I could attach all of the circuit boards. And with all of those spacers inbetween the circuit boards are stacked together as close as possible.










All wires connected again like in the diagram that I made a while ago. There are quite a few.










It all barely fits in the box. With this one I'll also add a cable gland so all of these wires can go outside. And I'll spray it black myself tomorrow. Wasn't really planning on using this one, that's why it wasn't sprayed together with rest of the boxes.










Meanwhile I'm also busy charging all of the batteries one by one to the same level. Takes about 1,5 hour for each battery so it'll still take me a while.










Now I still have to finish 2 more of these kind of boxes, only after that I'll start with the battery boxes.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Tonight I finished the first box with high voltage parts. Had quite some work with this one since the standard mounting points weren't really useful and the box is also too low to make a plate for the bottom. Was also quite tricky to decide where to place everything, still is far from ideal but I can't really think of any better way.










In this are the main contactor (splits the battery pack in two to safely work on it and for emergencies), sensor plate for EV Display (gauge) and the main fuse. The orange cables I still have to connect, will do this once all of the boxes are done and placed in the frame. I did however connect the 12V part already, wasn't really much work for this box.










I also started with the last box already, this one's easier and will probably be finished tomorrow already. Meanwhile 15 of the 24 batteries are also charged already. So this weekend I hope to have them all charged. Then I can finally start placing them in the boxes and in the frame.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today I finished the other high voltage box. For this one I could make a bottom plate again to screw all of the parts onto. This box is also pretty important, the distribution is made here for the charger and dc-dc converter. For both there's also a seperate fuse.




























Tomorrow I'll have to check what I all need now of connectors and cable glands, then I can hopefully place a few of the boxes in the frame already this weekend.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Are those BEP Marine or other brand stud terminals?

+1 on quality of your build, threads like this do raise the bar!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

They are not, don't really know if they even have a brand. I just bought them here from a webshop in the Netherlands, can get them in many sizes.  But those BEP Marine ones look pretty much the same though.

And thanks! Really nice to keep hearing that from other people since I'm really trying hard to get a high quality build.  Only downside is that it costs a lot more than just quickly putting something together, but in my opinion it's definately worth it.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

A big update again after a few days of work. I've made cable pass throughs for all of the boxes.

First I completely finished the one for the fuses of the charger and dc-dc converter. Drilled quite a few holes and placed cable glands in them.










This one I could also place on the frame already. Can only connect the cables once everything's on there anyway.










For the next box I didn't use a cable gland, not enough space for it unfortunately. So I just glued a small hose into there. Works pretty good as well.










For the square box I could have placed a cable gland but the space on the inside was very tight then. So I also just glued a small hose into there.










Then the bigger box. Here I was able to use cable glands everywhere.










But the most important is that all of the battery boxes are all done now and finally back in the frame. I just wonder if all of the frames of corner profiles will still fit well since the paint layer is pretty thick but I'll find out soon enough.




























Also placed all of the lids on them to see what it'd look like. I'd say it looks pretty nice.










Now I just still have to place those other boxes, then I can start connecting everything. And the top case I still have to get ready as well, probably won't be easy either. But it's really starting to get a move on again.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

This is looking very good sir! I like the contrast of the black boxes with silver bolts also. I am keen to see how much is covered by the bodywork. Very nice wiring also.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks again Tyler, always nice to read.  The bodywork won't really cover all that much. The small battery box on the front will be hidden though and part of the charger. But the rest will still be visible for the most part. But the bodywork won't be coming on there for a while still so have to patient for that.  I do plan to get it ready for a real test ride very soon though. I can probably start on the high voltage cables already tomorrow and some of the 12V wires.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yesterday and today I've been busy making the wires between the 4 battery packs. First I checked which size I needed to crimp the cable lugs. I just used a small piece of wire for testing. I also have 2 different kinds of cable lugs, one thicker than the other. I can't use the same size for both of them. You can see this here with the wire on the right, this is a thicker cable lug and crimped it with the same size as the thinner cable lug. Because of this it got some extensions on the sides. So that's pretty bad. The left and middle one are crimped with 2 different sizes and are perfect. So that is how they all should be.










Now I could start with the real wires. First I stripped the wires and crimped the cable lug onto it.










Then I made the wire to size and did the same on the other side. I just placed the cable glands on it first because they don't fit over the cable lugs.










That's how I did all of the wires for the battery packs and they're all done now.



















Tomorrow I'll continue with the wires between the whole battery pack and the controller. These are a bit more difficult since there's also a seperate shielding in these wires making them more stiff. Also have to do some other things with these but I'll probably show this tomorrow.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The wires between the whole battery pack and the controller are also done now. These were a bit harder to make because of the extra shielding in these wires.

First I did the same as with the other wires, stripped and crimped a cable lug onto it.










After that I stripped it to the shielding and soldered a small wire onto it. This has to be earthed to the controller's enclosure. The shielding should ofcourse not touch the cable lug so to be sure I used some extra heat shrink.










Some more heat shrink on it to seal it good again.










For the controller's enclosure I already made the wires for earthing quite a while ago. So now I could just connect the shielding of the wire to it. It's a lot of work but it's the only way to get it approved at the RDW (safety inspection).










Did this all with the other wire as well. And after that I also attached the top case again.










These 3 things I'll have to attach somewhere in the top case. These are the 2 contactors for being able to drive forward and reverse, the 12V battery and the DC-DC converter. Think I'll have to glue in some plastic mounting points. And I also have to make some holes in it for cable pass through.










Also made some wires already that go to the 2 fuses for the charger and DC-DC converter. I'm just short on orange heat shrink, can't really continue with this untill I have some more.










Tomorrow I'll continue again, it gets more fun every time now.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

These past few days I've been busy again. Got a reply from the RDW saying it's no problem that a few components will be placed in the top case and that there will be high voltage wires coming out of it and sticking out a bit. So this is all allowed, just has to be done in a safe way of course.

First I started making some pass through holes for the wires in the top case. I just don't know whether I'll keep using these rubbers or use cable glands again. With the rubbers the wires won't stick out as much.










Also bought some new heatshrink so I could continue again making the wires for the charger. There are also connectors inbetween so I can disconnect the charger from the batteries just in case it's ever needed.










Here with the connectors connected. Because of the rubbers that are all around it stays completely waterproof.










Meanwhile I have also done some smaller things. The new handle switch is attached and soldered all of the wires for the led buttons.



















This weekend I'll start attaching all of the components in the top case.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The past week I've done a lot of work again. First thing I wanted attached in the top case are the contactors for being able to drive in reverse. This all went well, I just hope that it's strong enough.

I made a whole construction out of plastic where the contactors fit in nicely.










Also made mounting points that I glued into the top case with special glue. With this I have to wait and see if it's strong enough.










The contactors I can easily attach or remove this way. Meanwhile I've also connected the last few wires for the propulsion. The smaller black wires are just for earthing of the shielding in the orange wires, just still have to isolate these so they can't come in touch with the contactors.










I was worried that it wouldn't look so good on the outside of the top case but it doesn't look too bad. As you can see I ended up using cable glands again instead of those rubbers. The wires stay in place much better like this and the top case is still waterproof.




























I've also tried with the rear fender on it already and you don't notice the wires as much then. I just forgot to take a picture of this and the fender is also off again. So I'll show that later.

The plan now is to make some shielding in the top case so the contactors won't be visible anymore and untouchable. But that will take a while again to finish.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Finally an update again.  These past 2 weeks I've definately not just been sitting on my hands. Lets start with the small things.

I've placed the wires for the EV Display sensor to the batteries. For such small wires they're still very important.



















For the looks I bought some new mirrors, these match very well with the carbon mudguards. Looks much better than the standard chrome mirrors. Just have to wait and see how the view is. The only problem is that these don't have an E-marking, so I'll still have to use the chrome mirrors for the road approval test at the RDW.










But the most important is that the top case is pretty much done now. I've made a protective cover out of plastic that fits over the contactors and is closed off all around it. This way it's impossible to still touch anything with live voltage. Mounting points for this are glued in again. The DC-DC converter still fits very nicely on top of this as well.



















But since this is open on the top and has live voltage on certain parts I also had to make a seperate protective cover for this. On the rear I drilled quite some holes so the heat can go out.



















Then I was still left with the 12V battery. The plan was to place this as a square block as far as possible to the right but because of all the round shapes in the top case this was just too difficult. So I ended up placing it as an oblong shape in the middle. The sides are covered up again. I left the rest open, I think it looks pretty nice.










This will all still be sprayed black and then I can continue with the wiring again.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The past 3 weeks I unfortunately didn't have much time to work on the quad bike so not much has happened. But I did make a start already on the wire harness.

First I started with placing the waterproof connectors on all of the wires. A lot of time went into this. I do have a special tool for this but there are quite a lot of wires where I have to crimp the contacts onto.

Here with just the contacts and rubbers on there.



















Then I placed the connector enclosures on there.



















I've done the same with all of the switches on the gauge plate.










This weekend I could finally start with the wire harness itself. I just found out already that I don't have enough wires and also not enough connectors. So I'll have to wait for that to be able to continue again. But I do already have a few wires done.



















Meanwhile I also had to modify the handlebar switch a bit. I saw in the diagram of it that it has to be connected in a different way than the original one I had. The killswitch and horn used the same + wire, that would never work well in my case. So I gave the horn a seperate + wire and I also switched around the wires for the killswitch so the icons will match with what it actually does. Was a bit easier than having to adapt the whole wire harness to this.










The coming days I'll continue with the wire harness again, this is the kind of work that I really like.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Past few days I was able to do a bit more again. The charge inlet is all connected now. Just still have to find a way to seal the rubber at the bottom.




























I also still continued with the wire harness, there are quite a few wires added again and everything that had to be combined is already soldered.



















The wire harness is almost completely done for a test ride now. Just still have to add the wires for the lighting after that. But I'm still waiting on the new wires that I ordered, untill I get them I can't really continue with it.


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

Keep posting, please. I keep reading. And am impressed by your neat cabling work. You are certainly the CONNECTOR KING ! Next time a picture of your crimping tools would be nice too.
-paul-


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks! That's very nice to read. I'll definately keep posting updates, it'll get very fun and exciting soon.  I don't think I have any pictures of my crimping tools but they're nothing special. I have an hydraulic crimp tool (cheap one from China) for the high voltage wires and for the small connectors on the 12V wires I just use a tool like this one:










Works pretty good with the superseal connectors.


And just a quick update now before the end of the year. I continued with the wiring again. The wire harness itself is pretty much done. Just still had to connect everything at the rear to the controller and in the top case.



















On the controller I've done it already, everything's connected there now.










In the top case I removed the protective plate again and made some modifications. The round holes are for cable pass through and some switches. What the bigger holes in the front side are for I'll show you in a few days once the plates are sprayed and everything's on there.










The wires to the top case are also all in there already, just still have to connect them all.



















And the thicker high voltage wires for the DC-DC converter are also ready to be connected.



















Next year there'll be more updates again. January will be very fun, that's what I can tell already.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The first update this year and it already starts good. I was able to completely finish the top case this weekend.

The protective covers were all sprayed black. I did this myself and it actually still turned out pretty nice.










I still want to be able to detach the plates so I bought some connectors again for all of the wires. The top case itself is already waterproof so I don't need waterproof connectors for this. First I put all of the contacts on the wires.










With the connectors on.










Since I made a complete new wire harness I wanted to add some extra safety. I bought a few fuse boxes which all seperate circuits are fused with. Was a lot of work to connect this all but it'll be very nice when it's in use.










The wires between the DC-DC converter, 12V battery and wire harness were also very fun to make exactly to size. The + wire of the DC-DC converter also has a seperate fuse.



















Attached everything to the protective cover. Now you know what all the holes I made in it are actually for.










Was quite some work to get everything connected before I could attach the plate but finally it looks very nice now.










DC-DC converter attached and connected.










And another protective cover on there.










The 12V battery I won't connect for now. I did this for a short moment but then I saw that the DC-DC converter actually draws a little power. So I can only connect it once I have the whole battery pack connected so the DC-DC converter can keep the 12V battery charged. That's what I'll be busy with the coming days. Will be a bit more exciting since I won't be working with 12V anymore but 72V.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

It's time for another new update.

The past few days I've been busy connecting all of the battery cells to eachother. It all went well, for extra safety I already isolated all of the tools with some tape. For the rest you just have to stay very focused.










But that's not all yet, I also started on the BMS.










First I made all of the wires exactly to size.










Then I connected them all to the battery cells and to eachother. Thought it'd be a lot of work but it wasn't all that bad. It was the first time something actually took less time than I expected, usually it always takes longer. They're also connected inbetween the battery boxes, this was actually the hardest since at one part I had to push 4 wires through that wire loom. The size I used actually is for only 3 wires. But it all went fine anyway.










Looks pretty nice too.



















In the dark it also looks nice with all of those LED's. Just too bad that you won't see any of it anymore once the battery boxes are closed.










I also connected the throttle now with 2 resistors and one extra wire for the BMS. All inputs to the Soliton controller are already full so I had to do it like this, could've used throttle limit otherwise.



















Also placed all of the fuses to be able to test the 12V system. Meanwhile I've already broken one and replaced it, apparently the contactors needed a little more power.










And I can already say that the 12V system is working perfectly. I just had to make a small modification with a relais, for the rest everything seems to be fine. I just have a weird problem where the controller sometimes doesn't give any power the motor after I let it run in reverse and then forward again. Could be that there's just not enough voltage since everything was connected to a 12V battery. Just have to connect the wires to the controller again and then I can try with almost 80V, see if it works better then. If not I'll run some logs with the Soliton and see if I can locate the problem.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Firehuntah said:


> ...I just have a weird problem where the controller sometimes doesn't give any power the motor after I let it run in reverse and then forward again.....


Are you using the reverse and tach inputs on the controller? If so, then the likely cause is that version 1.5.2 and later inhibit the motor output immediately upon a state change of the reverse input until current has dropped below 50A and RPM has dropped below 100.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yes I'm using the reverse and tach inputs, reverse output as well which operates a small relay for the reverse contactors (NC = forward, NO = reverse). Contactors work fine, can hear them closing and opening.

What you're saying is indeed happening and that's fine ofcourse, I really like that it does that for the extra safety. But the problem is that it doesn't respond to throttle at all anymore once the state has been changed back from reverse to forward. I did see in logger already that it says "throttle blocked" when it happens. I'm just not really sure why since the RPM is at 0 and there's no brake input. And it doesn't happen in reverse state, only forward. Most annoying is that it doesn't even happen all the time, only sometimes. And if I wait a minute or two it sometimes works again without even doing anything.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Send me some log files that show this to our support address.

Note: possible reason is that brake isn't applied the entire time; we removed that requirement in a beta version of code that hasn't been widely released yet.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tess for helping. I'm happy to say that the problem has already been solved, apparently all it needed was a bit more voltage on the battery terminals. I guess testing with a 12V battery is just not a good idea, it was probably too close to the minimum of 9V.



New quick update for you all. 


The problem I had yesterday where no power was going to the motor moving forward is already solved. The controller just needed a bit more voltage, the 12V battery was not enough. Today I connected the whole battery pack to the controller and tried again. The motor always gets power now, moving forward and in reverse. For the rest I also had no problems anymore, everything's working perfectly now.










Since there was almost 80V present now I changed the settings of the controller again to see how much power would come from the motor. Tested again with the wheels off the ground and I was very surprised. I only still had 1/8th of the available power but I could already feel really good how strong the motor is. More power I won't test with the wheels off the ground, this will happen during the test ride soon. The coming days I'll be preparing everything for that. So it's going to be very exciting.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

That is sounding brilliant Firehuntah. Congratulations. We look forward to the test ride.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

I must say, fantastic job on wire management. My ~1000 lb 4 speed Sandrail is unfortunately operating on a much tighter budget than yours. I think your motor and controller would nearly pay for my entire conversion project including the car. 

I'm particularly interested in your range and acceleration given the direct drive setup. Your battery pack is exactly the same voltage/capacity as mine. Your motor is also pretty similar to my ME1003, yours getting a higher RPM at the cost of a little torque. This will be a good comparison.

Did you check your curb weight now that things are being finalized? If your quad is around 500 lb with a ~60mph top speed, I believe it will pull just fine in direct drive. Won't be the fastest thing, but you will be able to stay ahead of average traffic. What current will you be running at?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tyler and Jay!  Really looking forward to the test ride myself as well, love it that I'm finally so close to being able to ride it. Just a few more things that have to be done.

@Jay:
I really like your Sandrail dune buggy as well, been following the project since you started it. It was great seeing it perform so well with such a small motor, gives me much hope as well. 

Believe me, I had a budget as well when I started the project. But I really enjoy this project so I want it to be perfect. So I try not to pay too much attention to budget anymore, will end up going above it anyway.  But I'm happy that I don't have to spend money on parts anymore now, it's just still the road approval test soon that will set me back a bit.

I don't have any info for you yet about range and acceleration, it'll come soon though. Curb weight is still unknown but I'm guessing it's around 220-230 kg, so yeah pretty close to 500 lb. It's geared for around 90 km/h (56 mph). Will have to wait and see what the acceleration is like. If it's very fast I might change the gearing for higher top speed. The max current will be 400 A.



New update for you all. 

I have all of the connections on the controller and motor covered up now. should be safe enough like this.



















Also placed the last part of the enclosure on the controller. Doesn't look very pretty but for now it'll have to do. It's important for the road approval test at the RDW.










After that I already attached the rear lights and license plate holder. It all barely fits between the controller's enclosure and top case.










A long while ago I already made the charge cable but I had to get a different plug for this back then. I still hadn't put that one on yet so I've done that as well now. It's not suitable for charge stations, I won't make use of them anyway. Will just be charged from an outlet at home.



















And then some more good news, charging the battery pack for the first time went perfectly as well. The battery cells were all still close to full so it didn't need much time. The BMS disables the charger when it has to so no problems there either. Only thing not working is a button I want to use to enable and disable the charge process. Just still have to add an extra relay to it so that's an easy fix.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Looking forward to the first tests! And by no means was I being critical of your budget, more envious than anything. I'm expecting yours to feel brisk. Just think: Mine weighs double, I had a passenger, more drivetrain loss, and I was set to 300A. In 2nd gear at 35 mph top speed, it was far out accelerating traffic around me.

Our motors are very comparable to these bigger motors people commonly suggest around here. If you actually look at the specs of the Netgain Impulse 9 for example, my ME1003 motor puts out nearly the same torque per amp at a similar RPM. Even after factoring in forced air cooling (a measly 100w), it's still more efficient. As long as you keep heat under control, it's better IMO. Less weight to lug around as well.

I'd be testing/driving mine now if it wasn't for the weather; I'm doing all of this in between long stretches of 3rd shift work. When I get back from my little family trip, I hope the weather is nice enough to try things out Tuesday. I'll be waiting for your videos


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hey Firehuntah 
An observation, are the motor power cables able to move freely up and down with the suspension? What I carrying the weight of the extra length for movement? A flexible strap would be ideal as it will move but carry the weight also.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

@Jay:
Yeah but yours has a gearbox though, much fun in 1st gear I assume.  Mine should still have enough torque though, at least 220 Nm at the wheels at 400 A I think. But yeah.. I still don't know how fast it'll be with that. 

I really like these small motors too. The main reason I even got this is because it fits so nicely in the rear swing arm and ofcourse the weight. But heat indeed might be a problem. Having some issues with the temperature sensor also, the temperature reading is way too high on the trailtech display I have. It's currently showing around 155 degrees celsius while it should be around 10 degrees. a Can't seem to get it to the right temperature even with some resistors in parallel. Still have to see how I can fix that. Kind of important to see the right temperature with this motor. 

Videos will be coming very soon, just waiting for nice weather as well. Should have the quad bike ready for a test ride within a few days.


@Tyler:
Good observation, but the power wires are indeed able to move freely up and down. I'll just have them strapped to the frame in one spot so there's enough space for them to move. There's not that much suspension travel where the power wires are coming through the frame anyway.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Firehuntah said:


> @Jay:
> Yeah but yours has a gearbox though, much fun in 1st gear I assume.  Mine should still have enough torque though, at least 220 Nm at the wheels at 400 A I think. But yeah.. I still don't know how fast it'll be with that.
> 
> I really like these small motors too. The main reason I even got this is because it fits so nicely in the rear swing arm and ofcourse the weight. But heat indeed might be a problem. Having some issues with the temperature sensor also, the temperature reading is way too high on the trailtech display I have. It's currently showing around 155 degrees celsius while it should be around 10 degrees. a Can't seem to get it to the right temperature even with some resistors in parallel. Still have to see how I can fix that. Kind of important to see the right temperature with this motor.
> ...


I suggest throwing a potentiometer in line and adjusting the resistance to read 100C while the thermister is sitting in boiling water. Hot glue the pot position in place after setting it.

FYI, your torque constant is 0.17 nm/A, so the motor should do 68 nm at 400A. I suppose you could get 220 nm at the wheels with the right reduction. My ME1003 is 0.197 nm/A. Yours fits in smaller spots and weighs a good 15 pounds less. I was about to say yours gets more RPM, but I just looked up the datasheets, and it appears we are both at 50 rpm/v. Assuming we are working with about 74v nominal, our motors should be turning 3700 rpm with no physical load. It might turn higher with a fresh charge (or less sag), but you should still subtract some speed when attached to a physical load. I'd say we should both be working with at least ~3500 RPM under load, maybe 3800 in optimum conditions, in so I'd gear your quad accordingly.

I think you might have heat problems doing 400A with that motor. I know for a fact I needed a fan to do 300A on mine, and ours are both rated for the same 200A continuous. I think your direct drive setup will need forced air even more than mine since it will be turning slower on acceleration with less passive cooling. Do you have a contingency plan, or are you just going to dial back settings as tolerated?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Not sure how that'll work and how I'd have to connect the potentiometer but I'll try and look it up somewhere. Is there no easier way with resistors?  It doesn't have to be accurate, just close enough to tell when the motor is getting too hot. I might just contact trailtech and see if there's a way to calibrate the display with the sensor in the motor. Probably not since they rather only support their own sensors I guess.

I currently have 12 tooth front and 44 tooth rear sprockets so 3,67:1 reduction. So that's around 250 Nm but there will be some loss ofcourse. Not sure how much but I'd say 220 Nm should definately be possible. Hoping to get a top speed of around 85-90 kmh (53-56 mph) with this gearing. I'll just wait and find out since it's pretty hard to calculate. It's pretty easy to make changes to the gearing anyway if needed.

As for the heat problems, I still don't know. I do still have some space for forced air cooling if it's needed. But it won't be as easy as with your motor since I can't just put a fan on the back of it. Still haven't really thought about it. Most important right now is that I get the temperature reading working so I can see how hot it actually gets. I do not plan to dial back any settings though since I'm guessing it needs that 400A to be as quick or maybe a bit quicker than the 250-300cc gas powered quad bikes.

Thanks btw for helping, I really appreciate it.



Also.. new update again. 

Past few days I've been closing all of the battery boxes and they're attached to the frame as well now. They can't go anywhere anymore, can't get any movement in them at all. To be sure I still added some sealant inbetween the rubber and the boxes so they're completely waterproof. Even though it's all a bit thicker because of the few coats of paint on them it thankfully all still fits pretty good.




























Now I could attach the footrests, nerfbar and heelguards again.










Then I tightened the nets in them again and placed the heelguards.










Starting to look like a real quad bike again. This is what it looks like right now.



















Meanwhile I still added the extra relay. Enabling and disabling the charge process works perfectly now.










The only thing that's actually left now is aligning the wheels and adding the saddle. Then I can finally make a test ride with it. Think this will happen on Saturday if the weather cooperates a little.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Looking good.

If you don't want to leave a pot inline, just use it to find the exact resistance you need. It's a lot easier to turn a knob to get the temp reading you want than to continually guess what resistors to use. Once you find the right pot value, check the resistance of the pot with your DMM, then replace it with an equivalent resistor(s).


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks! But I don't get how the resistor should be connected then. I've tried connecting in parallel but that didn't seem work, the reading actually got higher. Don't think connecting one in series will work either but I still have to actually try that. Will try tomorrow.



And a new update again. 

Thanks to the snow I wasn't able to have a test ride today. Will probably still be here tomorrow as well so it'll have to wait till next week. Hopefully the weather will be better then. The quad bike is definately ready for it.

The wheels are aligned.










Meanwhile I also connected all of the lights. Worked perfectly right away. First I had only connected the brake and turn signal lights for the test ride.










I just noticed that the turn signal lights stay on weakly while flashing. Don't think it'll give any problems for the road approval test but I don't think it should be like this. Normally they should go out completely. It's a new turn signal relay so that can't be the problem.



















Since the test ride couldn't go on I also connected the rest of the lights and the horn.

Rear light.










And the headlights. Right is low beam and left is high beam, both in combination with running lights. Just like original, will leave it like that for now for the road approval test. Daytime running light is also connected but didn't take a picture of it. It's nothing special, will also be changed after the road approval test.



















This coming week I will tidy everything up and maybe even add the fenders already. For the rest it's just waiting for better weather.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Firehuntah said:


> Thanks! But I don't get how the resistor should be connected then. I've tried connecting in parallel but that didn't seem work, the reading actually got higher. Don't think connecting one in series will work either but I still have to actually try that. Will try tomorrow.


Resistors in parallel decreases resistance, so it makes sense that the temp reading would go up. Series should add resistance.

The whole point of the potentiometer is to rapidly find the exact resistance value that properly calibrates your thermometer readout to a known temp (boiling water).

Once you get the right temp reading, you measure the resistance of your pot, then select the right resistor(s) to replace it.

Here's a resistor calculator to make things easy for ya:
http://www.calculator.net/resistor-calculator.html


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thank you.  I connected a 220 K resistor in series and it seems to be giving the right temperature now. I'm just not sure if it'll still give the right temperature once the motor gets warmer. Will hopefully be able to test that soon.



Since I really couldn't wait anymore I made some more space here to be able to test for a bit. Can't really turn or anything so it's just a forward and reverse test. But as you can see it's all working great. It's set to half power now and already wants to accelerate pretty quickly, just need some more space.






Hopefully I can have a real test ride outside and at full power very soon. It's all up to the weather now.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Looking very good! Well done on an excellent build. I look forward to the good weather too! When will we see it fully dressed? Is there much else to prepare?


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Firehuntah said:


> Since I really couldn't wait anymore I made some more space here to be able to test for a bit. Can't really turn or anything so it's just a forward and reverse test. But as you can see it's all working great. It's set to half power now and already wants to accelerate pretty quickly, just need some more space.
> 
> Hopefully I can have a real test ride outside and at full power very soon. It's all up to the weather now.


Haha! I did the _exact_ same thing last night. I finally troubleshooted the problems I was having and got it running smoothly. I had a much larger indoor runway though! I put it at 400A in first gear.  With my top speed of 20 mph in 1st, I chirp jeep tires even with a passenger. It slams you in the seat like a V8 sports car. It just tapers off really fast, lol.

Were you going 100% throttle on that half power setting?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks! Even though I can't really test like this I'm still having a lot of fun with it.  I think it'll probably be fully dressed for the test ride already. It really isn't that much work anymore, just still have to put some wire looms around the 12V wires and also the high voltage ones for extra protection. And that's all I think. Then I can place the fenders on it.

Just having an issue with the DC-DC converter, it only has 11.9 V output which clearly isn't enough to keep any 12V battery charged. Without a battery I can't even turn the headlights on without the Soliton turning off. Will probably have to get that one replaced, seems to be broken.


@Jay:

I really wish I had some more space here as well.  It's only like 5 meter (16 ft) here. Can hardly even test acceleration, have to get on the brakes right away. Glad to hear your problems are fixed, should be a fun drive now.  I also can't wait to see and feel 400 A for the first time.

The throttle was at 100%, motor and battery amps at 200, slew rate of 1000 A/s I believe. On EV display I was only seeing 30 A max before I had to brake. But it definately felt quick, bit hard to see in the video though cause of the angle. But yeah.. I just need more space for a real test.  Still haven't even seen that 200 A yet.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Firehuntah said:


> Thanks! Even though I can't really test like this I'm still having a lot of fun with it.  I think it'll probably be fully dressed for the test ride already. It really isn't that much work anymore, just still have to put some wire looms around the 12V wires and also the high voltage ones for extra protection. And that's all I think. Then I can place the fenders on it.
> 
> Just having an issue with the DC-DC converter, it only has 11.9 V output which clearly isn't enough to keep any 12V battery charged. Without a battery I can't even turn the headlights on without the Soliton turning off. Will probably have to get that one replaced, seems to be broken.
> 
> ...


Regarding your DC/DC converter:

Before you go buying new things, open up the case on it and look for a trim pot. If you don't know what they generally look like, search the term in google images. It's usually a small thing that can be turned by a little phillips head screwdriver. A lot of these cheap DC-DC converters actually have adjustable voltage regulators on it, and they just ship it out from the factory with it pre-set. It could have glue on it to keep the setting from changing. If so, pick it off. Then just turn that thing to what voltage you need 


If it can't be adjusted:
it looks like you have headway cells you're trying to charge in 4S arrangement? Have you considered swapping that battery out for 3S LiCoO2 LIPO? That 11.9v would put it at 3.96v per cell at a healthy long life of about 80% charge. 

If you want to keep your batteries and current converter, you could add this 12v to 13.8v converter:
here.

Regarding your test, if your acceleration ramp was turned down, then it really doesn't matter what your amp setting was. I set my acceleration ramp to 100% for my tests. Unfortunately, it's snowing over on the U.S. east coast right now, so outdoor test drives are out of the question for me too.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I tried looking for a trim pot but couldn't find one. It's a Meanwell DC-DC, adjustability is apparently optional. Can't be done with this one.

I have a 4S pack of Headway cells as my 12V battery yeah (about 13,2V actually). I really need 13V+ for the headlights, they aren't very bright otherwise. And with 11,9V there's just too much of a chance of the Soliton turning off if the voltage sags a bit when turning on the headlights. So I think I should keep my Headway pack.  That converter could be an option but this Meanwell DC-DC should be able to put out more voltage. I can try to just get it replaced by a new one, maybe with the extra option for adjusting.

The acceleration ramp wasn't turned down really. 1000 A/s slew rate should be more than enough I think. But I can try setting it higher and see if it makes a difference. But I think this weekend won't be good for a test ride again, there'll be snow again tomorrow and friday. So maybe have to wait another week but the weather will definately be better then.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Firehuntah said:


> I tried looking for a trim pot but couldn't find one. It's a Meanwell DC-DC, adjustability is apparently optional. Can't be done with this one.
> 
> I have a 4S pack of Headway cells as my 12V battery yeah (about 13,2V actually). I really need 13V+ for the headlights, they aren't very bright otherwise. And with 11,9V there's just too much of a chance of the Soliton turning off if the voltage sags a bit when turning on the headlights. So I think I should keep my Headway pack.  That converter could be an option but this Meanwell DC-DC should be able to put out more voltage. I can try to just get it replaced by a new one, maybe with the extra option for adjusting.
> 
> The acceleration ramp wasn't turned down really. 1000 A/s slew rate should be more than enough I think. But I can try setting it higher and see if it makes a difference. But I think this weekend won't be good for a test ride again, there'll be snow again tomorrow and friday. So maybe have to wait another week but the weather will definately be better then.


I'm assuming you want something that passively charges and requires no button presses when it's plugged in the wall.

Check this thing out:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Boost-Co...063?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d445c34df

This will just be an add-on to your current system.

I watched a detailed review of an electrical engineer tearing it down and inspecting it, and it's excellent for the price. You can control voltage and current to your liking up to 5A and 35v. I'd charge those headway cells up to 3.5-3.55v a piece or a 14-14.2v setting on the unit. They are efficient, but if you max them out, you still need to attach a slightly larger heatsink to it (or bolt it to something metal).

That's just one option i'm throwing out there.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Firehuntah

How big is your main pack?

I am using a fairly small main pack - 230v - 64Ah
And I use a 4S headway auxiliary (16Ah)

I don't have a DC-DC , I just charge the Auxiliary at the same time as the main,

Going by the recharge times I don't think I have ever used as much as 1/4 of the auxiliary


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today was a very beautiful day. 




























More about this later on or tomorrow. 


@Jay:
Thanks but it's no longer necessary, you'll find out why on the next update. 

@Duncan:
I'm using 24 x CALB CA60's. Using only a battery would be possible I guess but I rather keep it charged all the time. Especially with lights on I think the 12V pack would be empty before the main pack otherwise. Not sure though. My headway cells are also 10 Ah only.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

So yesterday I was finally able to have a test ride on the quad bike after a bit more than 2 years of working on it. It was a really great experience. Even though I started with very little power I already really enjoyed it. I didn't test it anywhere close here but at the place where my sister works and on a short road. So I had to get the quad bike on the trailer here at home first. It all went well but I'm going to make some modifications to the ramps since I don't think they're very safe. But after half an hour the quad bike was stuck on there and I could drive off.










Thankfully I also arrived safely at the place where I could test.










Not too long after that I rode the quad bike off it and started testing at half power. Looking back at it I'm not even sure if that was actually half power, I think it was more like 1/8th of the power. I didn't see more than 50 A while 200 A should have been possible at half power. But it was pretty fun already and a good way to get to know the quad bike a bit.

Then I changed the controller settings a few times to be able to get full power. The acceleration did feel a bit faster but on the gauge I still didn't see much of a difference compared to half power. Unfortunately during these tests the DC-DC converter passed away which resulted in quite an exciting moment. I was just riding around the corner when suddenly all power was gone, the rear wheels slipped a little. 

Thankfully I was still able to continue after that since I took an extra 12 V battery with me. Placed this in the top case and connected it, it just barely fit. After that the quad bike worked perfectly again. But still I didn't quite feel and see the power that I actually should be getting. The top speed at that moment was around 45 km/h and the motor was also running at a bit less than half RPM. So I was pretty sure that something wasn't right. I even used my phone to check the speed with GPS and my sister rode her scooter right next to me. But the speed was actually right.

To be sure I checked the controller settings again. I just changed one thing and tried again. Right away when I took off I felt that it was all good now, I suddenly had much more power. So the controller settings were just wrong all this time, it was not giving the full power to the motor but holding back instead. I also did see on my gauge that it was going above 100 A now. So after that I lowered that same setting again and I was suddenly reaching 250 A. So much power suddenly, it was really amazing. I was just riding with a big smile on my face the whole time now. Also tried a bit on the short road again and the quad bike just kept pulling. I just had to get on the brakes every time I hit 60 km/h since the road wasn't longer. But I'm sure that 85-90 km/h is definately possible with the current gearing. And I wasn't even at full power yet so the acceleration will also only get better once I find the right setting.

After that I still did 2 quick runs on the lot but then I called it a day. The quad bike really has a lot of grip even though the ground was quite damp, also really nice to ride on. Was quite exiting too since it was actually the first time riding a quad bike and also the first time on/in an electric vehicle. But as it turns out I love both and I really cannot wait untill I'm allowed to go onto the roads legally with it.  I just did notice that the tires aren't really that great, I'll be replacing these with some good quality tires soon.

But after this whole story you all just want to see one thing ofcourse and that's the video.  So here it is. In the beginning it might be a bit boring but in the end you can really see the difference in power. You can even hear it while there's not really much noise coming from it. 






My sister also still filmed a bit. Most of it is at low power as well, just from a different view. The last minute is with more power but is pretty much the same as in the video above, but my sister was also standing in the same spot. 






Unfortunately the onboard camera was already empty fast and the other camera's memory was also full quite fast so there's not as much footage with more power. But it'll be alright, maybe I'll try again soon and then not forget to take my laptop with me. Then I can see all the data of the controller while riding and see why exactly the full power is not reaching the motor.


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## crack monkey (May 30, 2011)

Congrats on your success. Great project


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## kingr (Dec 5, 2014)

Good work. The stance on your quad looks very aggressive , I like.

Congrats on finally getting it up and running. I would also like to build a quad this year , however my setup will be much smaller.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks you both. 

Yeah the stance is pretty nice, is still the same as original. It probably got just a bit lower though since there's more weight now. Riding it is really great, it has so much grip already with these chinese tires. Can't even imagine how it'll be like with some good quality tires.

Very nice that you're also going to build a quad bike, good luck with it!


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Acceleration looks pretty good! Can't wait to see it maxed out!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks! It felt good too.  I can't wait to see the full power either since I'm already very happy with the power it has now. Just have to fix some things before I can do that though. Have to get the DC-DC converter replaced, EV display needs to be fixed and the temperature reading for the motor still isn't right. It just stays at 9 degree celcius all the time now while it definately got a bit warmer than that during the test ride I think. So having just a resistor in series doesn't seem te help sadly. Think I'll contact both LMC and TrailTech to see what I can do to get it right.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm having a weird issue with the main contactor. Think I didn't have this yet before the test ride but I'm not really sure. The coil is getting pretty hot, even to the point I don't want to touch it for longer than a few seconds. I measured the temperature and in 30 minutes it goes from about 10 degrees celcius to 50 degrees celcius and it just keeps rising slowly. This doesn't seem normal, a good working contactor isn't supposed to get hot right? 

I already tried connecting it to a 12 V battery directly, switching the + and ground connections and disconnecting the high voltage from it but it just keeps getting hot. There's about 12,2 V on the coil and it's drawing 0,7 A.

Any idea why this is happening? I don't like it since I know I'll have to wait at least a month again to get a replacement if it's broken. Hoping I can fix it myself somehow.



Also had a small issue with EV display but thanks to Dimitri I was able to fix this and it's now working perfectly fine again.



Then I still have the broken DC-DC converter. I'm not even sure what to do with this. Getting it replaced won't help since these Meanwell's apparently all have 11,9 - 12 V output. Without the optional adjustability at least but I haven't found any 150 W yet with that option.

So I'm thinking about getting a different one. I found this one from Traco Power which seems pretty good and is adjustable. The only thing I don't like is the pricetag but if these are better and longer lasting than the Meanwells then I don't really mind.

I'm looking at the TEP 150-7212WI right now, seems good enough for my quad bike.
http://www.tracopower.com/products/tep150wi.pdf

Just not sure if it already has enough protection against ripple current since I'm guessing that's what killed my Meanwell, no idea what else could've caused it. What do you think, is this a good option? Or any other suggestions for a good DC-DC converter?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Firehuntah said:


> I'm having a weird issue with the main contactor. Think I didn't have this yet before the test ride but I'm not really sure. The coil is getting pretty hot, even to the point I don't want to touch it for longer than a few seconds. I measured the temperature and in 30 minutes it goes from about 10 degrees celcius to 50 degrees celcius and it just keeps rising slowly. This doesn't seem normal, a good working contactor isn't supposed to get hot right?
> 
> I already tried connecting it to a 12 V battery directly, switching the + and ground connections and disconnecting the high voltage from it but it just keeps getting hot. There's about 12,2 V on the coil and it's drawing 0,7 A.
> 
> Any idea why this is happening? I don't like it since I know I'll have to wait at least a month again to get a replacement if it's broken. Hoping I can fix it myself somehow.


The Sol Jr controller has the contactor internal. It is generally considered the "main" contactor. But in your case, it serves as a precharge contactor. And you installed another contactor to isolate your batteries I see. I typically use another contactor when the controller includes a contator for safety reasons also. The contactor you picture looks like an Albright but I suspect it is a Chinese knock-off. That could be your problem.

What is the model and part # or spec of that contactor? What about your reversing contators? The forward contactor will be engaged practically continuously. Does it get as hot? What brand and part # is the reversing set?

If the main contactor is a known quality part, like Albright, and rated for continuous duty, I'd say not to worry. If it is other than a known quality part, I'd say get rid of it. If for some reason you need to reduce that coil heat there are ways to do it. First, consider using a Kilovac or Gigavac brand contactor instead. They are smaller and can be bought with a coil economizer. Or fashion or buy an coil economizer for your present contactor. A quality contactor should by the specification tell you the pull-in current, hold current and drop-out current for the coil (along with the resistance) and rating. You will find that the holding current can be on the order of half of the needed or nominal pull-in current. That could reduce the heat by 75%.

BTW, nice build. Great attention to detail. I'm always skeptical of brushed PM motors, but your EV is fairly light weight, so I've just kept quiet. But as long as I jumped into your thread, I figured I'd mention it. Motor heat will depend on many factors. You should keep track of it. Do you have a temperature sensor in the motor? Any way to measure it after runs? Did you break-in the motor to seat the brushes? Things to think about before running it to the limits.

major


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Right, I actually meant the contactor that I placed mid pack for extra safety while working on it and as an emergency disconnect. The ones in the Soliton are fine. 

It is indeed an Albright contactor. This and the reverse contactors come straight from the Albright factory, or well from LMC where I bought the motor actually. But they get them from Albright directly. So I'll just assume they're definately not the fake Chinese ones.  The contactor is a SU280B and the reverse contactors are SW202B. The reverse contactors don't seem to get as hot, the plastic cover that I placed around it doesn't even feel warm. So it's only that one contactor getting hot.

The continuous rating of the contactor is more than enough for my quad bike but I don't think it should be getting this hot. It just keeps rising, I don't even know the max temperature yet since I didn't leave it on long enough. Don't really want it to overheat.

I have though about using a Kilovac contactor but I'm not sure if it'll fit in the enclosure. Even the side mounted Kilovac is still a bit higher than the Albright contactor side mounted. So I'll have to measure that first.

I'll also look into a coil economizer, seems very interesting. Thanks!


Also thank you for the compliment. I've read the stories about brushed PM motors burning up and stuff and to be honest I was a bit worried as well. But after last week's test ride the motor really seems very reliable and I'm not as worried anymore.  Ofcourse I do still have to see how it goes with full power but I think it'll be alright.

The motor does have an internal temperature sensor but I can't see it on my display just yet. The TrailTech display I have is expecting a sensor with a very different resistance curve. Still haven't figured out how to connect it so the display will read the right temperature. Untill I do I won't run it at full power yet, at least not for more than a second or two.  I didn't break in the brushes yet either, thanks for reminding me. Will have to do that before letting it run on full power as well. Think I'll just remove the chain and use the idle function of the Soliton for a few hours.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Spec for that contactor claims continuous rated coil dissipates 10 to 15 Watts. Per your measurements, you have 8.4 Watts. You should not overheat, although the spec does not specify enclosure/ventilation. And it does have an intermittent rating. Look at the spec. http://curtisinstruments.com/Uploads/DataSheets/50161_SU280_Albright_RevA.pdf Pull-in voltage is 66% of rated. So a simple series resistor could reduce the coil wattage significantly.

For brush seating, leave motor spinning wheels for some additional load (current) as that will better the process. Just block and jack up the vehicle. With the PM motor, overspeed at no load (or light load) is not a problem. So shoot for a reasonably fast RPM, like 3000. Components (motor, controller, contactor) may get hot running continuously for hours. Use a fan to move air over it. It could take longer than you think to seat the brushes. Careful not to over discharge battery. Then babying it for the first 100 miles will also aid a lot to seating brushes and filming the commutator.

major


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I tried adding a resistor in series today but even with only a 10 ohm resistor it barely even engages. The 12 V battery was pretty empty though so that didn't help I guess. But the temperature still kept rising to about 54,5 degrees celcius. I also tried adding a diode in series and that did seem to help a bit. The temperature actually lowered and then stabilized at about 51 degrees celcius. So yeah.. it's still not really good enough. I'll contact LMC about this and see what they say. They use these contactors often so they should know how hot they're supposed to get or if they're even supposed to.

Thanks for your advice on seating the brushes. I will definately keep it in mind, should start doing this soon.

A new DC-DC converter is also on its way. It's not going to be a Meanwell anymore but the Traco Power TEP 150-7212WI. Bit more expensive but it's adjustable, more isolated and also bettery quality I think. Just hoping it'll last a very long time, unlike the Meanwell. I couldn't get the Meanwell replaced anymore since it's already been 2 years since I bought it so no more warranty sadly. So I had no choice but to buy a new one. Will probably still get it this week.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Seeing as a few things have broken during the test ride I've already had to do some repairs. The most important is the DC-DC converter. Ofcourse it was just out of warranty, already bought it a bit longer than 2 years ago so getting it replaced wasn't possible anymore. But I already wasn't satisfied with it since the output voltage was too low (11,9 V). So I bought a different one now, a Traco Power TEP 150. Same power, bigger input range, better isolated and an adjustable output voltage. Unfortunately it was a bit more expensive but for this price I don't think there's a better one. One more difference, it's a lot smaller.



















A fusebox also broke because of the heavy 12 V battery I placed in the top case during the test ride.










Replaced it and lengthened the wires for the new DC-DC converter.










And here it's all connected. It also has the option to turn it on and off with a 12 V signal but for now I'll leave it always on.










Then something I forgot about. Before the test ride I still wrapped the whole wire harness with wire hoses. Quite a lot of work with so many wires coming together.










After that I put tape all around it.










And placed it back again. Think it looks pretty nice like this.










Currently working on putting wire hoses on all of the orange wires as well. It's for added safety and probably necessary again for the road approval test at the RDW.










The only 2 problems I still have right now are a contactor that's getting quite warm and not getting the temperature sensor in the motor to work with my Trailtech display. For this sensor I still have to contact Trailtech to see if there's a way to calibrate.
As for the contactor I've already contacted the supplier and for now they say that this is normal. Just still have to give them the complete part number so they can confirm it. But most likely it's working just fine, I just still think it's getting too warm myself. Still have to find a solution for this so it gets less warm. It now goes up to about 51,5 degrees celcius with an opened enclosure. With the enclosure closed it'll probably go up to about 70-80 degrees celcius. For the contactor itself this might not be a problem but for the other components that I've placed in the same enclosure it might.
I did try a coil economizer (capacitor and resistor in parallel, both in series with the coil) and it helped reduce the temperature a bit. The voltage dropped to 8,8 V after engaging. I need to get it to drop even lower, to about 4-5 V. I can't really use a bigger resistor though, 10 ohm is about the max I can use. With more than that the contactor won't even engage. Maybe I just need a different capacitor, don't really know much about them just yet.










That's about it again. Hopefully I can solve these last few things quickly so I can already make the second test ride at real full power very soon.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Have you considered buying a tiny constant current driver / buck converter to lower the output to the field coil?

On unrelated note, I hope you're using no-clean solder on those shrink wrapped connection points. It took me a while to realize that regular solder with flux corrodes over, turning a crusty white. Just don't want you to have to redo it in a few years.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Something like this then I guess?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-to-DC-Co...000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4b459b8

It's for LED's but should work for a contactor as well I guess. Seems adjustable which is nice. Just not sure if I still have the space for it in the enclosure. Maybe if I can find something smaller that does pretty much the same. 

I also bought some more capacitors and resistors to see if I can make a better economizer so I'll try that first since that won't really need any extra space. But if it doesn't work the above might be good.

To be honest I have no idea if it's no-clean solder, will have to check it later. Been using it for the last couple of years and never had any problems with it. But does it just corrode by itself then or only with moisture? Because the heatshrink I use has glue in it, it's completely sealed. So no moisture can get to it. And it's also inside the top case which is waterproof when closed.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Apparently I hadn't found all problems yet that arised after the test ride. I'm glad I found them now though or the next test ride probably wouldn't have gone so well. For pretty much all of the problems I had to buy these few things.










A few bolts of the front swingarms had come loose. I didn't put any Loctite on them just yet since I wasn't sure how tight they should be. I suddenly saw that there was some space inbetween, that's never good. So I loosened them all, put some Loctite inbetween and tightened them again. Should not come loose anymore now unless I really want to myself.










On the rear something also came loose, the 2 big nuts that keep the sprocket adapter stuck to the rear axle. Because of this the sprocket adapter was ale to move freely on the axle. I did already tighten this with blue Loctite inbetween but apparently that was not strong enough for the forces it has to endure. Also noticed that there was some play between the sprocket adapter and the axle. So I first used Loctite Quick Metal to fill up the space. Then I used red Loctite again to tighten the nuts. This should also not come loose anymore.



















After that I continued again with the orange wire hoses. It's pretty hard with these thicker wires, especially the bends. It also still barely fits between the mounts.










On the side of the controller I already placed the RFI filters to reduce noise, also neccessary again for the road approval test at the RDW.










While I was busy with the wire hoses on the wires that go to the motor I suddenly discovered a very big problem. I noticed that there was some play on the connection points of the motor. I immediately took off the protective cover to see what was going on. To my surprise I saw that literally all of the nuts inside were loose. So the connections to the carbon brushes were also all loose. This is something that should never happen, If I would've pushed full power through the motor something would've certainly gone wrong. You can't really see it on the picture but really all of these nuts were loose.










The cause of this is very simple. Tyler already asked me about this but I thought it'd be alright, guess not. It's because of the stiff orange wires that didn't have enough space during suspension travel of the rear swingarm. Will have to completely change this because like this there will be too much pressure on the connection points of the motor. I'm first trying to place the wires in a straighter line to the connection points and not all the way through the frame anymore. I will also tighten all of the nuts with Loctite so these hopefully never come loose again.










But ofcourse I couldn't easily reach it anymore so unfortunately I had to take the motor off the quad bike once again. Thankfully this is still pretty easy to do, I really only have to jack it up and remove the suspension. Can just take out the motor together with the motor plate after that.










Since I have the motor out now anyway I also checked if I could replace the temperature sensor with the one from Trailtech. That way I can be sure that I get to see the right temperature on my display. I'm just not really sure yet how I'm going to attach it and if I can even use this sensor this way. Will have to contact the supplier of the motor again for this.










I hope that these were the last few problems for now. It's not really fun to discover these things knowing that the quad bike is almost all finished. But on the other hand it's definately better to see it now than when it's too late.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Firehuntah

You are worrying me with your use of loctite
Loctite is great - but - it's a secondary protection

Your wishbones - there should be a central metal core so that the bolt pulls down on metal all the way
That bolt should be tight! - the main retaining force is friction cause by the axial load on the bolt - that axial load is caused by the torque when tightening the nut 

The same thing applies on the splined shaft - most of these clamp up tight - 
The fact that yours has two nuts (I assume you mean two nuts clamping each other as "jam nuts") suggests that it is designed to be loose
Jam nuts don't come loose - unless they were not tightened correctly

You are doing a lovely job on your Quad (I wish my device looked half as neat) but I'm not sure you have enough experience to know how tight things need to be

Do you have a torque wrench?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm glad you found it too dude. I think the key is not giving the cable a direct path, but fitting a bracket to carry the weight of the cables so that the motor is not. Also, bending the cable is bad as thicker copper wire will fatigue and then you will get breaks and overloading on the other strands leading to heat and power loss before serious problems. I can't recommend this bracket enough! Not sure how to do it, but if there are holes, it can mount off the motor housing. Or off the frame just above the motor points. 

Looking really impressive otherwise! Congrats and well done.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Duncan said:


> Hi Firehuntah
> 
> You are worrying me with your use of loctite
> Loctite is great - but - it's a secondary protection
> ...


Sorry to pile on, but I agree with Duncan - that pivot shaft for the swingarm should lock securely with friction. In all the years I've been riding and racing, I don't remember ever using Loctite on one.

Build looks really awesome!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Well that's the thing I guess, there's no metal core / pivot shaft inside of the front swingarms. The POM bushings are sitting directly on the bolts. I definately tightened the bolts and nuts properly, they just came loose. I guess I'll keep checking for now if they come loose again with Loctite on there. If they do I'll have to modify the bushings so I can place a metal core / pivot shaft inside of them.

As for the rear axle, the two nuts are indeed clamping eachother. I also tightened these but since the spline and sprocket adapter had some play the nuts came loose. I guess the main reason was because I had the slew rate on the Soliton set way too high. This should not happen anymore now since I filled up the gaps between the spline and sprocket adapter.

I do have a torque wrench yeah but it's a Chinese quad bike. There are no torque specifications at all, except for the wheel nuts. So I don't really know how much torque to use when tightening certain bolts or nuts. But everything was definately really tight before I made that test ride.  I will check everything again after the next test ride but it'll probably be fine now. When this quad bike comes from the factory, all of these bolts/nuts are tightened with Loctite inbetween as well. Or well, it's not really Loctite but some knock off made in China.  Just have to wait and see now.

The orange power wires to the motor actually were supported and this still happened. Problem was that they couldn't really move up since the fender and seat are sitting on top of it. So all of the pressure on these wires was going to the motor. Now I actually have to wires on the outside of the frame and not supported by anything. Seems to work a lot better with suspension travel. I'll show some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks for the compliments and the help, I really appreciate it.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I continued again solving the problems that I still had.

I was able to place the temperature sensor of Trailtech in the motor, attached it with JB Weld, will be stuck on there forever. Also tested it already and it seems to work well. Will find out on the next test ride if it really works properly.










I tightened all of the nuts in the motor again and added Loctite inbetween. Then I placed another nut on all of the nuts that are holding the connection points of the motor and the carbon brushes, again with Loctite. I don't really expect this to come loose again. Also lengthened the wires for the temperature sensor.










After that I placed the motor back on the quad bike again and connected the orange wires in a better way. They have a lot more play now with suspension travel of the rear swingarm, should be almost no pressure anymore on the connection points of the motor.










I noticed that there were big sparks between the contacts of the small 12 V relays when disengaging the contactors. I used some diodes for this, the contactors open a bit slower now but at least there are no more sparks anymore in the relays. Don't want to keep replacing the relays when they break.










Also added a capacitor and resistor so the contactor between the battery packs uses less power, now it doesn't get so warm anymore.



















On the contactors for forward and reverse I only used the diodes since these won't be engaged for such a long time, heat won't be an issue here.










I've now fixed all of the problems that I ran into. Hopefully there won't be more coming soon since I really want to go the RDW this coming month for the road approval test. But before I go there I want to test at least once more. Tomorrow the weather would be nice and the quad bike is rideable again so I already charged the batteries a bit.


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## crack monkey (May 30, 2011)

Looking great. On the dc/dc converter... Could you wire the on/off to your main key disconnects? Might keep from an accidental drain


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks.  Yes that's possible but I have it always on for now. It doesn't seem to draw much power from the pack and with it off the 12 V battery would probably drain since it's only 10 Ah. I will keep an eye on it, if it does draw too much I can always change it.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Firehuntah 
If you support the motor wires mounted off the motor as I suggested you will take all the load off the wire bolts and into the motor housing but still have all the movement you have now. This seems best to me.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yeah, I'll look into it. Not really sure yet how I can support them since they're pretty far off the frame now. But I'll figure it out. 



Yesterday I went testing for the second time. First I went to a boatyard's parking lot nearby. Usually you can drive all the way around but since the water was high this unfortunately wasn't possible now. But the asphalt also wasn't as good as I thought, because of this it turned out to be a good test to check if any bolts or nuts would still come loose though. 










I rode around here for a while and it was very fun again. Could really notice that I had a lot more power now than during the last test. Acceleration was much quicker now. But I still don't think I had the full power. The highest I've seen is 315 A while everything is set up for 400 A. But I also couldn't keep looking at the gauge the whole time since I had to keep looking where I was riding. For the next test I'll just place the camera in front of it, then I can at least see everything at home.

But everything went well, nothing came loose anymore and nothing broke either. The temperature sensor in the motor is working fine as well. Only problem was that the motor got pretty warm quickly and I had to let it cool off a few times. It's probably because the brushes aren't properly seated yet so I'll just have to wait and see. On the parking lot I also couldn't really reach a high speed and was really only accelerating and braking the whole time. So I left there and since I couldn't resist I did a few quick runs on the road. 










The real fun started here since this was actually the first time at higher speed. The quad bike again did very well here, it all felt great and it just kept accelerating nicely. It definately has more than enough power. First I tested at low power (Eco mode) so the motor wouldn't get so warm right away. Accelerates less quickly then but on that road I was able to get up to 75 km/h (46 mph).
But I knew that it could do more so after that I tested again but this time at high power (Sport mode). I reached 75 km/h (46 mph) very quickly now and was able to get a maximum speed of 82,6 km/h (51 mph). That was pretty much the goal of this test, getting above 80 km/h (50 mph) for the first time. And that has also succeeded. 

In total I rode almost 10 km (6 miles) again, so the same as the last test. Only the ride time was a bit less this time since the quad bike was much faster now.  Only thing I need to keep an eye on for now is the temperature of the motor, at the moment this is getting a bit too high.










Ofcourse I brought the cameras with me again and made a video again. Think you can see really good that the quad bike has more power now. 






This coming week I'll order the new tyres so the Chinese tyres can go off. And I'll also completely finish the quad bike by adding the fenders on. I'll probably test once more before I go the RDW but for now it's all looking good. If I don't run into any problems anymore during the next test then I also don't really expect any problems at the RDW. It'll definately be very exciting though.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Don't worry about the frame. You just need a right angle bracket that bolts to the motor (so a curved shape) and reaches to the cables shortly above the bolt points for the cables on the motor. And a diagonal brace may be a help. I can sketch if you wish.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Just a quick update after the weekend. Made the quad bike a bit lighter for now, the wheels had to go off. You might be wondering why but you'll see within a few days. 










Placed the last few wire hoses around the orange wires. Looks pretty nice now, it just makes the wires even more stiff. But it's not really a problem. As you might be able to see the motor is running here. I'm busy seating the brushes so I can see if this will lower the temperature. For this I'm letting the motor run at 1000 RPM for about 12 hours. I'm just at 7 hours now so it'll still take a while.










Unfortunately I'll have to modify the fenders a bit in a few places. Here where the 2 wires cross eachother I had to bend the fender a bit so they still fit. I also expect that I have to modify the rear mudguard a bit since the wires to the motor are in place there.










I'm really working on the last few things now before the fenders can go on. This coming Saturday I'll probably go testing for the last time and I hope to have the quad bike completely finished by then. I'm really curious myself what it'll look like.  To make it a bit more fun for you as well I'll only show this all after the testing.  I might show a few little things this Friday but the pictures of the end result will come some time this weekend.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Very good news today, the quad bike is finally completely built up. You still have to wait to see what it looks like right now though, I'll show this on Sunday. Tomorrow I'll probably go out for the last test ride before I go to the RDW with it. I'll make another video again. 

But as promised I'll already show you a few little details. 














































The quad bike has really become very beautiful, can hardly wait to share it with you all. Just a little more patience.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Nearly Sunday on my latitude! Where is she?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

It's still Sunday for a while.  Got a bit late yesterday, working on the video right now. So.. coming soon.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

You don't have to wait any longer, I will now show what the quad bike looks like after working on it for almost 2,5 years. I'm really happy that I chose these colors, everything matches really good and it just looks really great. When I started this project I did have an idea of how I wanted it but it's become even better than I expected. Well, here it is. 




























Ofcourse it's nice that it all looks so good but what's more important is that it did really good again during the third test ride yesterday. This time I went to the industrial area again where my sister works, there's a nice long road there with a dead end so there's not much traffic. I've only tested at high speed now, mainly to see if the motor would get as warm again. This past week I've ran the motor for 12,5 hours at 1000 RPM so the brushes should be seated by now.

But unfortunately it already got too warm again (90 degrees celsius) just after going up and down the road twice in Sport mode. Meanwhile I did reach a new top speed of 84,7 km/h (52,6 mph) though. And it should be able to go a little faster. I think 88-90 km/h (54-56 mph) should be possible. Which is good as that's exactly the speed I had in mind when I selected the sprockets. It rides a lot better as well now, it's fitted with 4 new tyres (Toyo Proxes T1-R) and the wheels have been balanced. You can really notice the difference is at high speed.

After the motor got so warm I only still tested on Eco mode. Was a bit less fun but necessary to see if the motor would still get warm with just half the power. This is also the nominal power which the motor should be able to run at continuously. While it did take a bit longer it unfortunately still got to 85 degrees celsius after going up and down the road 6 times. So something is not right and I already have a few ideas what could be causing it. I'll look into this in the coming days.

Another problem is that the gauge which shows me voltage and current has broken for the second time. And not even during the test ride but just here at home while I was charging the quad bike a bit. I don't really have any faith in it anymore so I'll be replacing it with a different one. I'll just have to take a few fenders off again but this just needs to work properly for the road approval test.

But for the rest I'm very satisfied, the quad bike is working just fine and on Sport mode it's a real pleasure to ride on it. Ofcourse I made another video again so you can see it all as well. 






Just a few more modifications and then on to the RDW.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Wow! The bodywork transforms it!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yeah it looks really great now with the fenders, I can just keep looking at it with a big smile on my face for hours. 

Now if I can just get that motor temperature down I'd be really happy.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Since I was having problems again with the gauge that shows me voltage and current I replaced it. It's the same one again though (EV Display), just a newer version. I think I won't have any problems with this anymore, quality and build of the circuit board is much better than with the version I had before.










All wires already connected.










And placed in the enclosure. I did have to modify a few things to make it fit since this circuit board is a bit bigger.










The new gauge is nicely showing the voltage and current again, hopefully it stays like this now.










I did have a small problem where it kept showing 10 V while everything was turned off. The cause turned out to be a layer of rubber that I added between the circuit board and contactor as isolation. I found out that the rubber I used (EPDM) is slightly conductive. That's never a good thing so I removed it immediately.

Then there's still the problem with the motor that's getting too hot. Coincidentally there's also that same layer of rubber (EPDM) on the protective cover and a few copper wires of the carbon brushes actually touch this. It also looks like the rubber got pretty warm at those spots, it was kind of sticking to the copper. So this could already be a cause for the motor getting so hot.










I also checked the carbon brushes and you can see really good that they've been very hot on the inside.



















This definately isn't good and I'll have to find a solution quickly before I can use the full power again.

I also have confirmation from the RDW that I can go there on April 30th at 8 in the morning for the road approval test. So I still have a few weeks to completely finish everything. It will definately be very exciting but I'm still very confident that it'll be okay.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

I'm really hoping that helps with the overheating problem. Given all of the similarities between our projects, you handling high output will by proxy help give me an better idea of what mine will handle. 

If it comes down to it, you can always find a way to integrate active air cooling like me. It made a big difference in continuous power handling on mine. It should be even more important on yours given the smaller motor mass and direct drive keeping RPM's lower. The fan is especially nice at a stop so you can continue pumping out heat instead of just sitting there passively radiating it away.

Oh btw... I hated the way my battery box turned out. I've decided to redesign the arrangement and add more. *Bare* minimum now, I am going to have ~6.7 kWh with a total battery weight of around 100 pounds (~45 kg).


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Firehuntah said:


> Then there's still the problem with the motor that's getting too hot.
> ...
> I also checked the carbon brushes and you can see really good that they've been very hot on the inside.


What are the continuous/peak current ratings for that motor and what have you set the max motor current in the controller to? PM motors (AC or DC) tend to be much less tolerant of overcurrent abuse than series DC.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

@Jay,

Yeah I hope so too. I'll also advance the brushes by about 2-3 mm to see if this helps. I know with the Agni motors they suggest advancing 1 mm for each 150 A so it should be the same for the LMC. I do want to keep full power so it should be able to properly handle 300-400 A for a few seconds. And ofcourse it shouldn't get that hot at the continuous rated power.

I may have to integrate active air cooling if I can't get the temperature down any other way. This is also what the manufacturer suggested today, it needs good air flow for it to keep running on the continuous rated power. But it's going to be hard to add a fan to it since the frame is right in front of the brush holder cap. Think I'll just wait and look into it after the road approval test. Will have more time then and I'll actually be able to test any changes quickly.

Nice that you're upgrading your pack. The weight is really good, my pack has a lower capacity but actually weighs a bit more. But you're using LiPo's right? I rather have the safer LiFePo4's myself. 


@Tess,

The continuous rating is 200 A and peak is 400 A for 5 seconds or so. The max motor current in the Soliton Jr was also set to 400 A at first but since it was getting so hot quickly I turned it down to 200 A. Still gets too hot even though it takes a bit longer. But it's definately within the specs of the motor, so no overcurrent. 

I'm just not sure of the slew rate though. Could a high setting here actually cause the motor to get hot? I don't know if this motor can actually handle increasing the current so quickly. I have it set to 800 A/s right now. But it doesn't feel like it's getting full torque untill I get up to speed (after 2 seconds at least). It's definately not within half a second like it should with this slew rate. But this might just work better with a series wound motor and not so good with a PM motor, I don't know. My knowledge of electric motors is not really that good yet so excuse me if I'm wrong.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Not a lot of news anymore, right now I'm only busy with all of the documents and drawings that the RDW will need for the road approval test. Unfortunately I already have a few problems with this. The certification for EMC (Electromagnetic Compatibility or in other words interference) of the controller is apparently only for the categories of personal and commercial vehicles. Quad bikes fall into a different category so the certification actually isn't valid. Thankfully the RDW is checking if there really is a difference in the directives and if the certification might still be good. If not I'll have to get a seperate EMC test done which will cost as much as 1500 euros. So I'm not really looking forward to that and hopefully it won't be needed. Will have to wait and see.

Meanwhile I did make some modifications to the motor. I cut out the rubber seal completely so this can't make any contact anymore with the copper wires of the carbon brushes.










I also advanced the brush holder by about 3 mm. The motor should run a bit more efficient now while going forward so hopefully less heat build up as well.










I've already noticed that the motor runs much smoother now, the sound is very different as well. I'm also planning to place an air duct on the side of the heelguards which will guide air from outside of the quad towards the motor. While riding there should always be sufficient cooling then. But this is something for after the approval since I want to be able to test this on the road.

Tomorrow and Thursday will be interesting as well. Tomorrow an appraiser will come here who will determine the value of the quad bike. The quad bike is ofcourse worth a lot more now than original so I want to have it insured properly.
On Thursday I'll get some other visitors. Since I really like this myself and I'm looking forward to it very much I'll wait to tell you exactly what it's about untill after Thursday. It's something American and English but still Dutch as well.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

> If not I'll have to get a seperate EMC test done which will cost as much as 1500 euros.


 

That is _ridiculous_.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Firehuntah said:


> The continuous rating is 200 A and peak is 400 A for 5 seconds or so. The max motor current in the Soliton Jr was also set to 400 A at first but since it was getting so hot quickly I turned it down to 200 A. Still gets too hot even though it takes a bit longer. But it's definately within the specs of the motor, so no overcurrent.


The *claimed* specs for the motor are 200A continuous and 400A for "5 seconds or so"; the general consensus around here is that the current ratings on PMDC motors are wildly optimistic.

Slew rate setting in the controller would, at most, be a second order cause of over-temperature (as a result of a higher current being reached in a fixed amount of time under acceleration).


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tess. Yeah that's probably true, even LMC now says that the continuous rating is only with good airflow all around the motor, so only with optimal conditions. But we'll see, I'll definately keep an eye on the temperature and make sure it won't get that high anymore. Once the quad bike is road approved I'll look into cooling right away. I need to be able to test it properly on the road which I can't do right now.

I also played around again with the slew rate and at the same 800 A/s the motor seems to respond a lot better now after the brush advance and removing the rubber that was making contact. Like it'll actually get to 400 A in half a second now which didn't happen before. So yeah I'm just leaving it at that for now. I tried 400 A/s but that seems very slow. Doesn't seem to make a difference in temperature so I think that's all good.


@Jay:
Yes it's definately ridiculous, no idea why it's even so expensive. Now it wouldn't bother me if I actually went with a cheap controller that doesn't have EMC approval. But the Solitons do with Rebbl's modifications so I don't know why the RDW are making a problem out of it. EMC directives are probably the same for quad bikes and cars anyway. But yeah, just have to wait and see I guess. I still have hope.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

The day before yesterday I already said that today would be very fun. And indeed it was, I met some very nice people and was able to ride on an electric 4x4 ATV and also drive in an electric 4x4 UTV. ATV-Europe came to visit today. They're from Zeeland (Most south-west province of the Netherlands) and they sell these ATV's and UTV's throughout Europe. They were very interested in the quad bike I converted myself and were also very curious what I would say about their ATV and UTV. It was all really great, they both were very nice to ride and drive. Ofcourse the ATV was the most fun for me.

Now you might be wondering how they got these things here. Well, just with 2 Dodge RAM's. The ATV on the back and the UTV on a trailer. The whole terrain was suddenly full here. Was really great to see.



















The cars were awesome already but I really liked the ATV and UTV very much as well. Just didn't really know where to actually test them so we just put them in the field together with our ponies. This was really fun, they weren't even afraid since these things didn't make any sound but once you'd get a bit close they all started running.














































Ofcourse they also checked my own quad bike and thought it was really awesome. They even think that this might be able to sell if I were to put these kind of models on the market for a good price. So who knows, maybe something for in the future. But yeah, lets first see if I can get it approved so I can actually start testing it on the road.










It was all really fun, unfortunately the time just flew by very quickly as well and they had to return home again. But I will definately see them again some time.



















And to close off the day even better I just got a response from the RDW that the EMC certification for the controller is okay after all. The directives for this turn out to be pretty much the same for a quad bike and car. This was more or less the only thing that had me worried so I again have full faith now that the rest of the approval will go fine as well. Just 2 more weeks to go, very exciting!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Excellent news about your controller. I hope approval goes smoothly now and we can see good testing.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Whoops, late reply. Sorry Tyler.  But thank you! I hope so too, it's in a few hours already. Really excited!



Just a quick update before I go sleep.


After a few busy weeks of only making drawings and documents everything is finally ready for the road approval test at the RDW. And just in time as well, the approval is already tomorrow.  I'm very excited and really wonder what they'll say about it. And ofcourse if it'll pass the test. I hope so and have a lot of faith that it'll go just fine. But ofcourse there can always be some small thing that needs to be improved, we will see.

Here are a few of the drawings that I have to take with me tomorrow. I also have a lot of pictures and a folder filled with documents of all the components that are used. I really have no idea if they need all of this but it's always better to have too much than too little.










What I also had to make is an instruction manual. But just for the electric drivetrain. How it all works and needs to be operated.










Everything's ready and in position for tomorrow. Just still have to place the quad bike on the trailer and I can leave right away.










Hopefully it all ends well. I'll let you all know right away tomorrow evening.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Wish you the best success tomorrow sir.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Best of luck
The way you are prepared you probably won't need it - very impressive!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks both of you! Thought I was well prepared too and nothing could go wrong. Well, I guess not. It actually failed the test, although not on the electric part, they didn't even test that yet. Here's the update.



Yesterday I woke up very early to place the quad bike on the trailer so I could go to the RDW.










It was a very long trip and I arrived there safely and on time. Was just a bit too early, no one was there yet so I had to wait at the main entrance for a bit.










It was all still very exciting, but then they started with the test. Unfortunately it quickly turned out that it would fail the test because the chassis number wasn't clear enough after sandblasting and spraying of the frame. You can still see it but it's hard to read it by just looking at it. According to them the chassis numbers are never really affixed deep enough with Chinese vehicles. It's a shame really but it is what it is. I will now get an identity check on the frame where they'll see if the frame is still the original one. I'm just going to assume that this will all go well and then the chassis number will just get affixed again.

But even if the chassis number was all good the quad bike probably still wouldn't have passed the test. At the beginning of this project I already seperated the brake system so I could operate the front and rear brake independently. Much safer this way, just like on a motorcycle. I also removed the hand brake since this wasn't working, I had this hydraulic after seperating the brakes so there's still a hand brake present. But that's apparently not allowed, the brake system has to stay original, even if it's actually worse then. So I'll have to change this back again before going back for another test.

They also checked a few other things and I'll have to modify some small things. But that all isn't much work, the main things are definately the chassis number and the brakes.

That was it for the less fun things of the approval. What actually was fun is that they weighed the quad bike. The total weight turned out to be 271 kg (597 lbs). Way more than I expected, thought it would be around 240 kg (529 lbs) somewhere. But it's still below the maximum allowed weight. It's just that the amount of seats will be adjusted from 2 to 1 on paper. Have no issues with this since no one fits on the back anyway.
But they actually weigh the weight seperately on the front and rear axle. This was very interesting since I was really curious about the weight balance. And what do you know, the weight balance is a perfect 50/50. On both the front and rear axle they weighed 135,5 kg (298,5 lbs). This was a nice surprise, I didn't even try to get the weight balance this good.

But that's about it for the approval. Have to wait and see now when I can go for the frame. This might just take a few weeks.

For the rest there are still some problems with EMC (electromagnetic compatibility / noise) and it's definately possible that I need to get a seperate EMC test done which will cost around 1500 euros. Not really looking forward to that either but I still don't know everything about this. Will probably know more about this next week.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Just a quick update before I go to the RDW tomorrow for the identity check of the frame.

Since the approval test I didn't really do much anymore. I did already start making a system that gives a warning signal when you get off the quad bike and it's still in drive mode. I placed a switch in the left foot peg, looked like the best place to me. With a flash relay I'll just let all of the LED's of the drive mode buttons flash. Should be good enough. But it's still not quite working, need a few more small parts for this.

For the rest I've been busy making the brake system original again since last friday. I had the handbrake attached and also all of the brake lines connected to the brake cylinder of the footbrake. I just couldn't get any brake pressure anymore after that. I've tried everything to bleed the brake system but no luck. So I inspected the brake cylinder but couldn't really notice anything strange.










It could be that the rubbers are just worn out a bit since I still remember when I bleeded the brake system the first time about 2 years ago black brake fluid came out of it. Already thought that was odd but it did still work just fine. Few months ago I bleeded the brake system again and already had a lot less brake pressure, now nothing at all anymore. So I quickly had to buy a new brake cylinder and chose for a better one right away. A Brembo that has once been on a KTM motorcycle. This one works perfectly, bleeding was quite easy again. I just still have the brake system seperated since I don't have a double banjo bolt with the right thread size, will look into this after the identity check of the frame. More important right now is that the brakes are working well again.










For tomorrow I'll just have to wait and see. Hope it'll all go well so I can quickly go back for the approval test again. I'll let you all know how it went tomorrow.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Good luck sir.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks again Tyler!  It all went good, here's today's update.



I left early again this morning to go to the RDW for the identity check. Didn't have to drive as long this time, for this check I could just go to the nearest inspection centre.










Had to be there at 8 o'clock and I was even first in line. The spot of the chassis number was inspected and also all of the documents and pictures I took with me.










Thankfully this all turned out good. Normally you'd have to make a new appointment to get the chassis number re-affixed. But I got lucky, the one who's authorized to re-affix chassis numbers was present and also had some extra time. So the chassis number got re-affixed already.  It was a bit of a search for a suitable spot since the tool they use for it is quite big and apparently doesn't work well on tubes. Thankfully there's one nice flat area on the quad bike, right below the seat. I did have to remove the whole rear fender but the chassis number is on it now. 










After all this I came home from the RDW again with a good feeling. Just still have to modify a few things now and then I can go back for the approval test. Hopefully it won't take as long this time till I can go there.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

What is happening with the EMC test? Have you got a plan for that? I was wondering whether you could ask REBBL? whether you can buy a license off them without buying the charger? May be cheaper but 100% easier!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

I still don't know. I'm trying to convince them so it won't be needed but it always takes a while to receive a reply from them. The controller seems to be fine, haven't heard anything about that anymore. Charger doesn't need to be EMC compliant since it's only used when the vehicle is stationary. The only 2 things they're still going on about is the dc/dc converter and BMS. Don't even get why since they're pretty much optional parts and aren't even necessary for the drivetrain. According to the EMC directives only the components that have influence on the direct control of the vehicle should be tested. So in my opinion this does not include the dc/dc converter and BMS. But at the RDW they seem to think otherwise.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

If all else fails, get it registerd without and mount them afterwards.

You can do the same with a windshield for a convertible, its idiotic but those are the rules.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yep that's what I was thinking of as well. The BMS is fine though, according to the RDW it only has to be tested if it has an internal clock frequency of 9 kHz or higher. I'm using MiniBMS so no worries there, can just leave that all connected. Would only have to remove the dc/dc converter then. But I'll wait till I know more, don't want to remove it if I don't have to since I'm not sure if the small 12V battery will last long enough for the whole approval test.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

This weekend I've made a few modifications so the quad bike will hopefully pass the approval test without any problems soon.

The brake system is completely original again. The footbrake brakes on all of the wheels now. Both brake lines are connected to the brake cylinder now.










The mechanical handbrake is back on it as well.



















I've also made a system that gives a warning signal when you get off the quad bike while the drivetrain is still active. I've done this with a switch in the left foot peg.










The drive mode buttons will all 3 flash when you get off.










Since the flash relay I'm using doesn't work well with only LED's I wanted to hide a normal light bulb somewhere which also flashes together with the LED's. But it turned out I couldn't hide this, the light just shines right through the plastic fender. I actually like the effect it gives and it makes it even more clear that the drivetrain is still active.










Since I modified the brake system I wanted to test again. Because it was necessary ofcourse, not because I just wanted to or something like that.  But in any case the brakes seem to be working just fine.










Made a quick video. Even our dog really likes the quad bike. 






Everything that had to be modified for the approval has been done now. There are still a few things where I'm waiting on a reply from the RDW. But hopefully I'll hear something about that this coming week. I'm also looking to make a new appointment already for the approval test.


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## electron bom (Dec 4, 2014)

Beautiful!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Sorry a bit late, but thank you. 



Today I made one last modification. At the RDW they said the visors on the headlights are too sharp. They're right about this but it's standard so it probably also got approved like this.










To keep them happy I placed some rubber profiles on it. The sharp edges are gone now and it still looks pretty good.



















There's also some good news. I don't have an appointment yet, already trying for 2 weeks but can't seem to get a hold of the one who schedules the appointments. I did still come in contact with the inspector though.

It was still a bit unclear if a seperate EMC test for the whole quad bike would be needed, which normally costs around 1500 euros, or if the certification and test report of the controller would be enough. Thankfully the inspector told me that it won't be needed and that the certification of the controller is enough right now. So the EMC part of the approval is finally done and over with. This was also the hardest part but I won't have to worry about it any longer.

But there's also some bad news, thankfully not for my own quad bike though. At the RDW they're planning to sharpen the regulations for EMC even more. This will already happen very quickly since for my quad bike they discussed if it would still fall under the current regulations. So in the future it'll become even harder to get an electric conversion approved at the RDW. I think an EMC test for the whole vehicle will be mandatory then, or all of the components should be approved. But for my quad bike this is not a problem thankfully.

Now I just have to wait for an appointment, the quad bike is all ready for it again. Hopefully I'll hear something from them this coming week.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Great news dude! Glad you don't need the EMC test. Almost at the end now. Love your build, it has turned out brilliantly. Hope that the final test goes well.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tyler!  Yeah it's great news indeed, I was really worried about that EMC test, especially since it's so expensive. So I'm very happy it 'passed' that part of the approval now.

But the long wait is annoying now. The quad bike is all done and ready for the approval but I don't even have an appointment yet.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

This weekend I worked on the quad bike again. I had some issues with the brake system again. Every time after bleeding the brakes the brake pressure was good but a few days later the brake pressure was suddenly much less. I already wasn't satisfied with the brake pressure of this new brake cylinder. Probably because the piston is much smaller than with the original brake cylinder. But I thought that one was broken, so I just wanted to try a different one.

To be sure I tried again with the old brake cylinder and as it turns out it's still working great. I also discovered why I wasn't getting any brake pressure with this brake cylinder last time. I totally missed this one washer that apparently comes with a new banjo bolt with built in brake pressure switch. It has exactly the same color as the banjo bolt.










I placed an extra copper washer between this which made the banjo bolt not thread into the brake cylinder deep enough. Because of this the distance between the piston and the banjo bolt was too big to be able to build up any brake pressure. I removed this washer now so the banjo bolt is threaded deeper into the brake cylinder. While bleeding the brakes I already got brake pressure very quickly now. After the bleeding the brake pressure is also much better than with the smaller Brembo brake cylinder. So for now I'll just keep using the original brake cylinder again.










Since it always took pretty long before I had the quad bike attached on the trailer I bought some new clamping straps. With these I can get it attached on the trailer within 5 minutes. Also placed 2 wheel blocks on the trailer so I can't drive forward too much and damage the bumper while doing so. This nearly happened once.  The quad bike is also always exactly in the middle like this.



















Now I just still have to wait for the approval test. Meanwhile I do finally have an appointment. The approval test will be in 9 days already, on June 30th. Will have to be there at 8 o'clock in the morning again. It's going to be very exciting again, but I have faith that everything will go just fine this time around.  I also really hope so cause I finally want to go out on the road and ride it.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Excellent news, good luck with the test Firehuntah


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tyler! Just a few more days now.  The weather will be very nice here next week so that's already good at least. Last time I went there it was a bit rainy. Will be nice if I can also get that first legal ride next week, but I might still have to wait for the registration document for a few days.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Today I went to the RDW again together with my sister to get the quad bike approved. We left a bit later than last time since I had to wait for a very long time back then. Now we arrived there at around 7.40 am.










The approval test started quickly after we arrived already. In the beginning we weren't really sure yet if all would go well. I had no idea which things they were still going to check exactly. They also measured things that I haven't even measured myself yet. But it seemed to be going into the right direction.

Unfortunately we were not allowed to take any pictures during the approval test since there was a certain familiar British car manufacturer that makes sports cars who were testing their new model. It was really great to see but because of this I can't really show anything they've done with the quad bike for the approval. In any case, they did try to measure a few things, including the voltage of the batteries, isolation resistance between positive, negative and the chassis, and also if all components were properly grounded. This last one however didn't really work out so well since all of the enclosures I used are made of plastic. They can't measure anything there so they just skipped them.  Only a few things that are made of metal (motor, charger and contacts of the charge inlet) they were able to measure.

After all these measurements it was already almost certain that the quad bike would be approved. Everything was tested and they weren't able to find anything wrong, they were even impressed with how well it's put together and that everything is perfectly protected. I didn't even get to see the notorious test pin or test finger they use to check for any voltage.

But then the inspector wanted to do a drive test to check the handling, determine the top speed and see if the tachometer is properly calibrated. Now I did know already that the motor still has some problems with the temperature and the outside temperature was already pretty warm today. So the motor also got too hot pretty quickly already and the inspector had to keep waiting for the motor to cool down. I was really afraid that this would affect the result of the approval test in a bad way. But thankfully not, this also went good.  I explained that I will ofcourse fix this by adding some sort of active cooling onto the motor. But he really had a lot of faith in it, for the rest he just couldn't find anything that was wrong.

There still was another small issue though which I really have to look into. Apparently the tachometer shows double the actual speed after reaching about 90 km/h. I didn't even see this myself yet since I haven't actually been able to reach the top speed myself. I think the magnet of the speed sensor just isn't positioned properly which makes the sensor see it twice on high speed. This could've also killed my chances for getting it approved but since the tachometer displayed the speed just fine otherwise and was also calibrated properly he apparently was okay with it. Or maybe he did actually reach 190 km/h? 










Eventually he told me I could place the quad bike back onto the trailer again. And then I finally knew for sure, the quad bike is approved!  After the 2,5 years I worked on it my patience finally got rewarded and my end goal of getting the quad bike road legal has been accomplished. I'm really very happy with this and I think I won't forget this day for a long time to come. Now I just have to wait for the new registration documents, these will probably come within 5 working days. Then I can finally go out and enjoy riding it. 

These pictures we still made on the way back home, we really did come home with a very happy feeling.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Congrats!!!


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Well done, sir!


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Very nice, now the only question I got is how much did all of this set you back?

Because vehicle approval in the Netherlands is notoriously expensive.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks for the detailed report of what they look for on these little approval tests. Even if it's not for my country, it's nice to see what they care about in general.

Congrats on finally getting approved! Now make all that effort worthwhile and drive the hell out of it!


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks everyone! I'm so happy that everything went so good. After that first approval test which failed I got really worried. But all of that just vanished yesterday, it was a really great and fun day.

How much the approval set me back I still don't know yet, this will be a surprise still. Though I indeed don't expect it to be cheap.  I was able to get around the EMC test though since I used the Soliton Jr modified by Rebbl, so at least I didn't have to pay an extra 1500 euro for that. An EMC test for the whole vehicle may become mandatory here in the future though, I'm not really sure yet. But it doesn't really matter to me anymore right now, it's approved and that's all that matters. 

And don't worry Jay, I really can't wait to start driving it in a few days.  Though the first few drives will still be testing to solve that motor temperature issue.


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## F20A2-t (Nov 12, 2014)

Congrats on getting it registered!
I've dealt with the RDW before (not with electric though) and they can be a real pain.

In the second to last picture (on the parking lot) you can just make out a FastNed charging station in the background.

In dutch:
Ik zit zelf ook in de electro wereld maar dan met complete auto's.
Moei um te zeen det der mier Limburgers zien die zich met elektries rieje bezig halde 👍.
Succes en vuul plezeer met de Quad vanoet Helje dörp.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks!  Yeah they can be a real pain, noticed that the first time. But this second time was much different. I did always keep them up to date with the changes I made though, so that might've helped. And the EMC part was definately the most difficult even though I was already using parts that are EMC compliant. So when I passed that there really wasn't much to it anymore. Pretty much just ECE R 100 which in my opinion is very easy to pass. Especially when using fully closed plastic enclosures on almost all of the components. 

It's a nice picture indeed, I didn't even notice it till we got home. Esso fuel station on the right (will never have to go there with this quad bike) and FastNed Quickcharge station on the left. Obviously the quad bike is right in front of FastNed.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

It's been quiet for a while again but finally there is some news today. After 4,5 weeks of waiting I finally received the new registration document today.  Fuel type (Brandstof in Dutch) is now E for Electric. I can now finally go out on the roads with the quad bike legally.










I'll make use of this right away tomorrow.  But the first few times will only be short test runs so I can try to fix the motor temperature issues. Only once that is fixed I can try some longer distances. But that will hopefully happen very soon already.

After the weekend I'll probably have some pictures and a video again for you all.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

This update is a little bit late but I needed some time to edit the video. Last weekend I finally had a lot of fun with the first few road legal runs. They were just still test runs though since the problem with the motor temperature is still present. In the beginning I could barely make 2 laps around town (1 small and 1 bigger lap) before the motor got to 85 degrees celsius. I'll keep doing these 2 laps for testing, that way it's easy to see if there's any improvements after making some changes. Only when I'm satisfied I'll go try a longer distance.

Here are some pictures before I rode off. You can also see something new, I placed daytime running lights right below the headlights. I'm still not sure if I'll keep it this way but for now I'm liking it.










For the parking lights, low beam and high beam I also have different lights, the light on these is a bit more white than the standard ones that were in there.










First I tried removing the protective cover from the motor, this way the heat of the carbon brushes can escape. Ofcourse it won't stay like this, there's voltage on all of it while riding. But for testing it's necessary for now.










In the evening I went for another 2 laps. The difference was definately noticeable, ended up with 75 degrees celsius, already 10 degrees less. So it's clear that most of the heat has to be removed from this area. Another few pictures before I rode off.



















When I returned it was already getting a bit dark, nice picture for the lights. And again you can see something I added, a second brake light in the top case. I could barely fit a whole LED strip in there and it's quite well visible. I think it's also safer since the rear light is always on. It's sometimes hard to see the brake light then, but like this it's always clear to see when I'm braking.










After these runs one thing is pretty obvious, the motor will need active cooling one way or another. The bottom of the motor and swing arm is wide open so that would be a good place to pass air through.










There's also plenty of space below the swing arm.










What I've already tried is leading an air hose to the front so wind will be caught in it and blown through the motor.










This just didn't seem to make a lot of difference, I think the opening of the air hose is just too small for it. I have now added an in-line blower and filter which constantly blows air through the motor.










The motor does get a little bit less warm now while riding and it also cools down faster when standing still. But I'm still not satisfied. I now want to try placing 3 fans right below the swing arm and using the in-line blower to extract hot air from the brush area to the rear. Don't think I can do any more than that, so I hope it'll work like that. I'm just waiting for the parts now so I probably won't be able to continue with it untill next week.

All runs I did I have filmed again, I tried with the camera on the helmet now and not on the quad bike itself and also with 60 fps instead of 30. Not very exciting yet but these still are the first few road legal kilometers.






Soon hopefully some longer runs once the cooling for the motor is on there.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Almost there dude. And I have to say the quad is looking great.

Have you thought of using a small centrifugal blower with an AC motor and controller from the RC world? Then the throttle input to the blower could be controlled by the temperature of the motor so as it heats it also blows faster.

On the cooling front, you want the air to blow into the motor over the brushes first, then the rotation of the motor will help pull the air out and cool the whole lot. Forget the 3 fans etc. Try your in-line blower going to the brushes and I bet you'll see a big difference. And you can try it straight away while you wait for parts so nothing to lose!

Please let me know if this helps. 
Regards


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks Tyler!  As for the fans, I have them all installed. The in-line blower is sucking hot air out of the brush area though, not blowing air into it. So I could still try that. New update below.



After making a few modifications the motor gets cooled a little better now. The motor doesn't get warm as quickly now and when standing still the temperature drops rather quick. But still the motor does get a little too warm after riding for a while, even on continuous power.

First modification is 3 fans right below the motor, these blow air from below through the motor. For testing I just attached them with some velcro.



















I just have the idea that it doesn't really work that great while driving since the airflow is probably pushing all of the air out of the way. So I'll have to close this off a bit with some kind of air intake on the bottom, should work a bit better then. I also ordered the wrong fans, these don't have enough airflow. I've now ordered some that have double the airflow and are a little bigger.

The second modification is a hole in the protective cover of the motor. I just placed a hose on there with the in-line blower. This one sucks the hot air out of the brush area.



















This seems to be working pretty well, just makes a lot of noise. But even like this the motor still gets a bit too warm (73 degrees celsius on continuous power). I could still try to turn around the in-line blower to push air into the motor. Just still have to add an air filter then.

But at least for testing I can now ride a bit longer distance. I've done this a few times already. Here's a video again of last weekend. Went out for a ride in the evening, came across 3 very nice classic cars just within 15 minutes of riding time. Also did one more lap in the dark, thought that was pretty amazing.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Tyler, seems you were right yet again.  Thank you!



Last weekend I've been busy again with the cooling for the motor. The 3 fans I had placed below the motor I turned around so they draw out air from the motor.

The in-line blower I also turned around so it's blowing cool air into the motor. Ofcourse I needed an air filter for this so I went and bought a big one that has the same diameter as the fan itself. This is what it looks like now.










I turned on the in-line blower for a short moment to test how much air would come out of it. And I was very pleased with it, I was just blowing away everything that was lying on the floor. Since it's going from a big to small diameter there's quite some air pressure. After this I placed the whole thing on the quad bike again and when it stopped raining outside I went for another test run.










Ofcourse I expected it to work a little better than how it was before. With the blower on I actually felt air coming out of the motor. The air is being blown everywhere through the motor now and also passes the brushes so they're being cooled constantly. But during testing I just couldn't get the temperature to go above 51 degrees celsius. Every time I let go of the throttle I saw the temperature drop below 50 degrees celsius again. And when I stood still for a moment the temperature dropped to 30 degrees celsius within just a minute.

It actually seemed too good to be true. So I went for another lap after this and now with full power while accelerating. Again it didn't go above 50 degrees celsius while during the last test run it actually was at 73 degrees celsius and that wasn't even the maximum. But that 50 degrees celsius actually does seem to be the maximum temperature now for normal driving. Ofcourse it probably will be a bit higher if I really use that full power a bit more but if it drops down to 50 degrees celsius again after that then I'm more than happy. So I think I can say with some degree of certainty that the temperature problem of the motor is finally solved! 










I now still want to try removing those 3 fans below the motor because I have a feeling that these aren't really helping that much and that only the in-line blower will be enough. Also still have to see how I can properly mount that in-line blower. I definately want to place some rubber inbetween since it vibrates pretty much.

I also want to ride a longer distance now to see if the temperature will actually stay around that 50 degrees celsius, even with 80 km/h (50 mph). But I don't really expect any problems anymore with the temperature now.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm glad it's working. I agree that the little fans probably aren't doing much. 

Could you use a 90deg or even 180deg silicone pipe bend and mount the blower in front of the motor on the swingarm? Best if it moves with the motor. And you can use rubber motor mounts like found on vacuum pumps etc to isolate the vibration. And maybe a bit more advanced modification is a duct around the filter so at speed the air is forced into the fan and actually naturally blows even harder to help cooling. Like ram air effect.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

I think you should opt for a centrifugal style "squirrel cage" blower over that traditional impeller. i seem to get a lot more positive pressure out of those. It works better to push it through a motor case with lots of obstruction. marine / bilge blowers should run on the same voltage you use on your car.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Are those squirrel cage blowers that much better then? I'm quite happy with the cooling performance of this in-line/bilge blower. Only bad thing is that it makes a lot of noise. Those squirrel cage blowers are also a lot more expensive for some reason. Unless it makes less noise, then it might be worth it.

Mounting the blower to the swing arm should be possible but the distance between the blower and motor case will be greater then which will reduce air pressure again I guess. I'd like to keep it as close as possible.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

If you are happy to do some DIY (rhetorical statement) I'd suggest getting a 12v brushless RC motor and controller and a tiny turbo impeller and housing or high quality centrifugal blower like from a petrol leaf blower and make a powerful but quiet blower that can handle any amount of heat and be totally reliable. I'd wire it such that it always runs at a minimum output but controlled by the thermistor of the motor it increases output as temperature increases. You'll be able to run much higher power then and sustain high speed for longer also. 

Maybe that design is extreme and a bit expensive but I don't believe any off the shelf blower will operate quietly enough to not intrude into the enjoyment of the calmness of your EV.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Firehuntah said:


> Are those squirrel cage blowers that much better then? I'm quite happy with the cooling performance of this in-line/bilge blower. Only bad thing is that it makes a lot of noise. Those squirrel cage blowers are also a lot more expensive for some reason. Unless it makes less noise, then it might be worth it.
> 
> Mounting the blower to the swing arm should be possible but the distance between the blower and motor case will be greater then which will reduce air pressure again I guess. I'd like to keep it as close as possible.


I have one with a 4" inlet, and it makes more of a whooshing noise than anything else.

I don't know what you consider expensive, but here are some:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOAT-MARINE...ION-/321807602094?hash=item4aed3a51ae&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOAT-MARINE...ION-/321807602094?hash=item4aed3a51ae&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Marine-...-RV-/321804091510?hash=item4aed04c076&vxp=mtr


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

So it's been a very long time now since I was active here in this forum. Quite sad really since I always enjoyed following all the projects here.  But I might be back now for a while. I'd like to start again by giving you all an update of the project. 



Time really flies, it's already been over 2 years since my last post here. I think it's about time I give you all an update. And what better way to do that than by sharing a video of a nice sunny ride in autumn. As you can see the quad bike and me are still doing well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVIzUBP8ixg

Since I solved the temperature problem 2 years ago I didn't run into any real problems anymore. I've just been enjoying all the rides I could do with it without any needed maintenance whatsoever.

But part of this no maintenance has to do with a pretty sad problem, the range. You'd think that in 2 years time I'd have quite some mileage on it, but that's far from the truth. The problem here is that, with my current battery pack, I was expecting a range of about 60 miles / 100 km. In reality I'm not even getting half of that, maybe if I'm very conservative.

So the result is that I can't really take it out for long and also can't even get to work with it. I guess you could say it's a miscalculation for the capacity of the battery pack that I needed. But it actually is pretty close in terms of capacity to some electric motorcycles that get much further on a charge. What I didn't really account for was the enormous drag / wind resistance you get on a quad bike while driving at high speed on the road. And ofcourse the rear tyres being connected by a solid axle instead of a differential doesn't help for the range either.

This will one day be fixed by upgrading the battery pack to a larger one. But this will be quite a costly upgrade and right now I have some other priorities that will also cost me money. So for now it'll have to stay like this while still enjoying the short rides around town. Lets just say it's not a problem that can't be fixed, it's just that it is the most expensive problem you can have with an electric conversion. 

Other than that it's all been good but some parts did get swapped out. One of them being the Trailtech Striker tachometer which unfortunately broke down not too long ago and it was just outside of the warranty period. But I have a new one now and it's been working great again. I also replaced the Tracopower DC/DC converter with a Sevcon. I needed a little bit more power since the Tracopower couldn't really handle the load without getting very hot. Again, no more issues after replacing. I've also made some small changes to the 12V electric system, mainly to make the charging process a bit easier and to remove some components that weren't really being used anymore. But that's about it. The only thing I'm still thinking about is converting the chain to a belt since the chain grease is hard to get off the beautiful white frame. 

So that concludes my update. I'm not sure but I think it might be a while again before you see another update here. Probably next year around this time there'll be an update about the other priorities I was talking about but I can't really say too much about that yet right now.



Btw, I also noticed that all of my images are gone here thanks to Photobucket. In case anyone wants to see the history of this project, you can check my blog, it's all still available there.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Firehuntah said:


> Btw, I also noticed that all of my images are gone here thanks to Photobucket.


I installed the "photobucket embed fix" extension in my Chrome browser, so I still see all of your images  ... for now.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

brian_ said:


> I installed the "photobucket embed fix" extension in my Chrome browser, so I still see all of your images  ... for now.


That works perfectly indeed, thanks for that. Wonder how it works, if it's that simple couldn't it just be implemented on all of the affected forums so you don't need an extension to view the pictures?  Cause as it is now, people without that extension still wouldn't be able to view the pictures. It is easier to replace them all now that I see them though, maybe if one day I have enough time..


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Firehuntah said:


> Wonder how it works, if it's that simple couldn't it just be implemented on all of the affected forums so you don't need an extension to view the pictures?  Cause as it is now, people without that extension still wouldn't be able to view the pictures. It is easier to replace them all now that I see them though, maybe if one day I have enough time..


This is the thread from the forum administration:
Announcement - Photobucket images no longer working​This is another discussion of the issue:
PhotoBucket goes corporate $$$$$$$$$$$​


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

Great result Firehunta, You can be proud of your EV. You mention the disappointing range = air resistance. Do you have an energy efficiency number for Quads, like the very general number for EV passenger cars = 0,170 kWh/km ?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Nabla_Operator said:


> Great result Firehunta, You can be proud of your EV. You mention the disappointing range = air resistance. Do you have an energy efficiency number for Quads, like the very general number for EV passenger cars = 0,170 kWh/km ?


Thanks! And I sure am.  This was my first project and I didn't expect it to go as well as it did. While it did take much longer than I thought it would the end result is really nice. Especially that it's road legal, that was probably the hardest part to achieve.

The air resistance I assume is the biggest cause for the range being so low, since I've tried with a few different setups, like removing some of the wider and flat (as seen from the front of the quad bike) fenders and the range improved. Not enough to give up on the looks of those fenders though, so they're back on.  As for the general kWh/km for quads I have no idea. I have a lot of data from my Soliton but I'm not really sure how to calculate the kWh/km with that right now. All I know is that in order to keep riding at 80 km/h for example it keeps pulling around 220 amps with my 76.8V nominal pack (24x CALB 60Ah). If you could help me out with the calculation for that then we'll know the kWh/km I guess.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

wow that's 17 kW...like...more then a car!

211 Wh/km


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yeah it's quite bad.  Some have even said that quad bikes have more air resistance than a truck. Bit hard to believe at first but the numbers in my data don't lie I guess.

The thing with cars is that it's a complete body where the air gets pushed around it. With a quad bike there's a whole frame where the air goes through all of the different tubes, also a lot of fenders and as seen from the front a big flat surface of the battery pack. And then you still have the wheels without any cover on them and ofcourse myself not being very aerodynamic.  Many factors that really push up that air resistance. There are definately ways to improve it, but would it still look like a real quad bike then?


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

The drag-coefficient Cw of a Quad is (probably) dramatically high. And with frontal area (not much smaller than) a passenger car, your quad must consume more energy than a modern car on the highway. Tonight I consumed also 211 Wh/km with Nissan Leaf, while driving 123 km/hr continuously. The energy-efficiency advantage of the Quad must be at the low speed- city travel - cornering... when acceleration of mass is the determining factor. Advice: avoid the highway, don't travel at constant speeds and accelerate like a lunatic and you will enjoy your energy-efficiency most.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Yep, that's true. The low weight definately helps with the range when accelerating slowly and driving at lower maximum speeds. But well.. I'm not that kind of driver/rider really.  I even built in an eco mode for this but I haven't touched the button for it even once after the first test. 

Anyway, I don't go on highways since the quad's max speed is 'only' 95-100 km/h. I wouldn't feel safe with cars blazing past me every second. But unfortunately to get from one town to another I always have to drive/ride on 80 km/h roads. So I can't just keep going 50 km/h for example to get more range out of it.

I just need a bigger battery pack so I can still have all the fun and get a bit further while doing so.  But next year something else is coming along that will cost quite some money so the quad bike will stay as is right now, just have to enjoy going around town with it for now.  But after that I will definately put some upgrades on this quad bike.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi 
How much power are you using?

My "Device" uses 26 kW at 100 kph and about 7 kW at 50 kph

Or at least it used to use - I've made some modes to reduce the aero drag but I don't have an accurate ammeter at the moment


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

It's around 17 kW at 80 km/h and I think around 7 kW as well at 50 km/h, don't have as much data of me going 50 km/h for a long time.  So yeah.. it's not too bad at lower speeds but at higher speeds it really eats away the range.  The battery pack is only 4.6 kWh though, couldn't really fit any more CALB CA60's in the frame. So I either have to wait for smaller cells or modify the frame so I can create more space for batteries. Or ofcourse both for the best result.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Duncan said:


> My "Device" uses 26 kW at 100 kph and about 7 kW at 50 kph





Firehuntah said:


> It's around 17 kW at 80 km/h and I think around 7 kW as well at 50 km/h...


I did a quick fit of each set of data assuming that drag is a function of a constant force (and so power proportional to speed, due to rolling drag) plus a force proportional to the square of speed (and so power proportional to the cube of speed, due to aerodynamic drag). They're not just matched at 50 km/h, the power grows in the same proportion, so to the precision of this approximation these two vehicles would have the same power requirement as each other at any constant speed.

I would rather sit in the Device than straddle a quad, but that's a personal preference.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

So another year just went by again. I did say in my last post it might take a while but here I am again.  I unfortunately haven't been able to ride much this year due to some health issues but thankfully it's slowly getting better. So when the weather was nice again last weekend I just couldn't resist to go out for another ride. Ofcourse I have some footage again, this time I went for the onboards, both front and rear. Still think this is more fun to see than helmet cam, at least for myself to see everything moving and check up on things. Like how I now know that I have to adjust my chain tension a bit. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUbjaIn7L4g

I went for another ride today to visit some friends, still have to edit the footage since it's way too much to put in one video. So more on that soon.


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Last week I had another ride which was actually the longest so far. I went to visit the company that helped making the aluminum parts (Geraets Metaalbewerking). I promised them a while ago already that I'd come there to show the quad bike but just never got around to it. But now was the time to finally do it.

Pretty much the whole ride was on Eco mode to make sure I could actually get there. I was a bit worried since the range of this quad bike is still pretty low at only 30-35 km (18-21 miles). The distance to there is about 23 km (14 miles) so I went a bit easy on the power. In the end though it doesn't seem to make that much difference if I use Eco or Sport mode. Power is limited in Eco mode but since it takes me longer to get to a certain speed I still end up using around the same power as when I get there quickly using Sport mode.

Thankfully I could get there without a problem with still around 30% battery left. On the way back I was a bit less conservative and used Sport mode a few times. Again I had about 30% left. The way back was a bit shorter though since I could take a small shortcut. Ofcourse I did have to recharge while on visit, took about 2,5 hours from 30% back to 100%.

This was a really fun day for me, spent a lot more time than usual on the quad bike and it was really nice to show that company the quad bike. They only saw the aluminum parts that they made for me back then. Now they could see them mounted on the quad bike and the actual result of the project itself. 

There were also 3 firsts during this ride, first time riding through a 'bigger' city, the first time on an highway (100 km/h / 62 mph) and also the first time actually making it to 100 km/h (62 mph). It was behind a truck and going downhill but it counts! Both riding in the city and on the highway were pretty weird but fun at the same time. Ofcourse I also had to make a video of it again, think it's also the longest video so far. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42G1i_8DeBE


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Hoping this is still active, @Firehuntah since your quad is 48V, did you have to do the EMC test on RDW?


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## Firehuntah (Apr 1, 2011)

Eric said:


> Hoping this is still active, @Firehuntah since your quad is 48V, did you have to do the EMC test on RDW?


Not really active here anymore but I got a notification so that helped. 😉 The quad bike is actually running at 72V, not 48V. At the time I got my quad bike approved an EMC test was not yet necessary since all the components I was using (most important, the controller) was already EMC approved. I do know that after the approval of my quad bike things have changed at the RDW and I believe an EMC test is necessary for every EV conversion now, no matter which components are used. Maybe I caused that by trying to get my conversion approved, sorry. 😅 Though I'm not sure if the voltage actually has an effect on this. It's been quite a few years since I last checked their regulations.




Maybe nice to post a quick update on the quad bike now that I'm here. Ever since completion of it in 2015 I've been able to ride it trouble free. I only still did an upgrade on the DC/DC converter since the old one I was using was just too weak.And had to replace the tachometer since it died on me. Other than that, I've seen no issues at all and has been very reliable.

At least.. up untill Winter now. Have always been used to leaving the quad bike for a couple of months when not driving and the battery pack would hardly even drain. So now these last few months I again hadn't been driving it and figured I'd charge it again. Unfortunately though, this time the battery pack did drain quite a lot, even though nothing changed and nothing was left on. The pack was only showing around 18V. This was like 2 weeks ago and didn't really have time to actually work on getting those batteries removed and inspected yet. I do suspect those batteries are dead now though. While it might be possible to recovery them, it's risky and probably they won't have anything near full capacity anymore anyway. So.. for now the project is dead. But at some point in the future I'm sure I'll look into doing a battery upgrade and getting it operational again. Been wanting to do a battery upgrade anyway since the range was pretty low, only about 30-50km (18-31 miles). Quad bike has a huge amount of drag. 😬 When the time comes, I'll be sure to post an update here. 😃


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