# [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Russ Sciville pointed out on the Thunder Sky list that the Tesla was on
Top Gear this weekend. You want season 12 episode 7 if you're looking
for it online (ie 12x07).

Clarkson was very impressed, it beat a regular Elise in a drag race but
the Elise could take the Tesla in the corners. To me, the Tesla didn't
look very stable when cornering.

They had two, they ran one flat (of course) and then it had some sort of
brake failure while charging. The other overheated. Is the Tesla's motor
water or air cooled?

The Stig drove it to the same time as a Porsche 911 GT3 and
substantially faster than the Elise on their test track.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml

They follow this up with a caravan jump, and a very positive and
uncritical review of the Honda FCX Clarity.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Up on intertubes already
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw

Not too positive.

-kert



> Tom Parker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Russ Sciville pointed out on the Thunder Sky list that the Tesla was on
> > Top Gear this weekend. You want season 12 episode 7 if you're looking
> > for it online (ie 12x07).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm glad I don't get that channel. That guys a real @#$%^&*!



> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Up on intertubes already
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Up on intertubes already
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> > Up on intertubes already
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw
> >
> > Not too positive.

Actually by Top Gear standards, that _was_ pretty positive  On the
same episode they also test drove a Hydrogen fuel cell powered EV, which
they suggested was "the future", as it gives the same driving experience
(fast recharge from a pump) as ICE drivers are accustomed too today.

This is one issue that keeps popping up with EVs - people expect the
experience to be close to ICE vehicles. Anything less is unacceptable.

When we moved from the horse and steam trains to ICE vehicles the two
technologies didn't compare exactly. The transition from ICE to EVs
might be the same - not directly comparable.

Our family is actually doing very well using or newly converted
two-seater lead acid EV with a 40km range and slow charger. So well, in
fact, that the ICE is gathering dust. I guess the point I am making is
that there is a big gap in many peoples wants (400km range, 150kW, 2
minute refuelling) and needs (15km commute, 10kW, several-hour recharge)
when it comes to cars.

So maybe large scale EV adoption is a marketing rather than technology
issue?

Cheers,

David





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Rowe <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > This is one issue that keeps popping up with EVs - people expect the
> > experience to be close to ICE vehicles. Anything less is unacceptable.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would disagree, I think it was a fair review worth watching. They were ecstatic about the straight line acceleration, and a lap time the same as a Porsche GT3. They noted it was much faster than the gasoline Lotus. Even though the gas Lotus outcornered the Tesla, they noted the Tesla was hobbled with "eco" tires.

They noted the same negatives as they would on any other car: Motor overheated on one car, heavier than the gas version, brakes had a problem on another car, and recharging would take 16 hours. The one unfair criticism I thought was that the car went only 55 miles on a charge under track conditions. Leaving about 3 gallons to prevent starvation, my gas car goes only about 30 miles on a tank in autocross conditions, and about 60 miles on the racetrack. 55 hard driven miles for a much faster car is very impressive!




________________________________
From: Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:30:50 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear



> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Up on intertubes already
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well put. That's how it came across to me as well. I also thought the 
note about 'mileage' was unfair. That's like taking an ICE car that's 
rated at 30 MPG and flogging it on a test track and complaining it only 
got 15 MPG. I also was disappointed how they basically wrote it off at 
the end like - "oh, another worthless EV".

I did note he had a solid EV grin when he outran the Elise on the 
straightaway!

- SteveS

David Dymaxion wrote:
> I would disagree, I think it was a fair review worth watching. They were ecstatic about the straight line acceleration, and a lap time the same as a Porsche GT3. They noted it was much faster than the gasoline Lotus. Even though the gas Lotus outcornered the Tesla, they noted the Tesla was hobbled with "eco" tires.
>
> They noted the same negatives as they would on any other car: Motor overheated on one car, heavier than the gas version, brakes had a problem on another car, and recharging would take 16 hours. The one unfair criticism I thought was that the car went only 55 miles on a charge under track conditions. Leaving about 3 gallons to prevent starvation, my gas car goes only about 30 miles on a tank in autocross conditions, and about 60 miles on the racetrack. 55 hard driven miles for a much faster car is very impressive!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:30:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear
>
>


> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Up on intertubes already
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Rowe wrote:
> > This is one issue that keeps popping up with EVs - people expect the
> > experience to be close to ICE vehicles. Anything less is unacceptable.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Being a fan of the show I can safely say that it was a a fair segment 
bordering on ecstatic for those guys.
What they commented on is what the shortcoming are when compared to 
an ice engine vehicle. They play
with some pretty expensive cars on there and it is performance 
oriented. So they do the show where
the rubber hits the road. Thats about what any petrol head or someone 
thinking about ev's for the first time
would see as well.

If you watched the show before you have to compare Jeezers(aka 
Clarkson) reaction to the Tesla compared
to the few previous ev reviews where they ended up ridiculing the 
car. Go to youtube and search for Top Gear
and G-wiz and you will see what they do when they really don't like 
something. ;-]

If you look at this without prejudice you can see that the only 
problem that can't be fixed is the batteries.
Probably the only real problem there has ever really been for ev's.

Dave


At 04:29 PM 15/12/2008, you wrote:
>Well put. That's how it came across to me as well. I also thought the
>note about 'mileage' was unfair. That's like taking an ICE car that's
>rated at 30 MPG and flogging it on a test track and complaining it only
>got 15 MPG. I also was disappointed how they basically wrote it off at
>the end like - "oh, another worthless EV".
>
>I did note he had a solid EV grin when he outran the Elise on the
>straightaway!
>
>- SteveS
>
>David Dymaxion wrote:
> > I would disagree, I think it was a fair review worth watching. 
> They were ecstatic about the straight line acceleration, and a lap 
> time the same as a Porsche GT3. They noted it was much faster than 
> the gasoline Lotus. Even though the gas Lotus outcornered the 
> Tesla, they noted the Tesla was hobbled with "eco" tires.
> >
> > They noted the same negatives as they would on any other car: 
> Motor overheated on one car, heavier than the gas version, brakes 
> had a problem on another car, and recharging would take 16 hours. 
> The one unfair criticism I thought was that the car went only 55 
> miles on a charge under track conditions. Leaving about 3 gallons 
> to prevent starvation, my gas car goes only about 30 miles on a 
> tank in autocross conditions, and about 60 miles on the racetrack. 
> 55 hard driven miles for a much faster car is very impressive!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:30:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear
> >
> >


> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Up on intertubes already
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHYOBXw7CPw
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:06 AM, David Dymaxion


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I would disagree, I think it was a fair review worth watching.
> 
> Hmm, you thought it was fair that they wrote the vehicle off
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi all, A couple of months ago I went to a show where there was a steam car.
Watching it driving around I thought the whole driving experience was
different with that, if we drove them our whole life would be different. To
a large extent our society is shaped by oil and the car and it is not
sustainable, like is going to change, we can either work with it or end up
with only memories of the "good old days" while others make the difference.
I can imagine the Top Gear team sitting in an old age home talking about
when they were great, they actually doing the world a disservice, supporting
other dinosaurs like themselves and persuading many people to join them.

We need to have Electric cars and we need to stop trying to make them
like what we had in the past, they have their own strengths, we need to
capitalise on them. They work NOW if they used correctly, if your work is
out of range, move or work over internet! Well, there will always be some
that have to have more range, let them use oil.

Regards,

George

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

While I agree he was fair about reviewing the car, it was the ending that
blew it. After showing the car and all it's pluses and minuses, he flatly
stated the car was a dead end. No way it will survive. Most people watching
the show (who aren't familiar with the realities of EVs) will accept his
conclusion as fact. No matter how balanced the review, he completely wrote
off not only Tesla, but all electric cars.

Worse then that, his reasoning was based on the success of hydrogen
technology.

Dave Cover



> SteveS <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Well put. That's how it came across to me as well. I also thought the
> > note about 'mileage' was unfair. That's like taking an ICE car that's
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Guys guys, so negative! The glass is half full, not half empty!

The Tesla is a great accomplishment. It is actually finally being delivered. It actually got an international review on Top Gear, and they raved about it's acceleration and lap time! Finally we have an off-the-shelf electric car that doesn't just go fast for 1/4 mile, but can sustain serious track speeds for miles!


I seriously doubt folks are going to be canceling their orders over this show. I'd predict Tesla would get more orders due to the show, if there were any rich sportscar lovers that don't already know about the Tesla (I have yet to meet a car enthusiast that doesn't know about the Tesla).

Yes, a higher power plug would charge it faster -- but I think it is more honest journalism to tell the time the average plug would take. Is it really a more positive report to state you have to install a special plug for rapid recharge? (Though, ideally, My bias is he should have mentioned both options.)

Likewise, some have the opinion that Hydrogen will ultimately be a better, carbon-free, and smaller energy cycle. So what! May the best idea win.

Pointing out the motor overheat and brake problem will ultimately make Tesla a better company. The motor overheat might even be a software fix to start ramping back the power a bit sooner.

It is better to get imperfect (to our point of view) coverage than none!



________________________________
From: dave cover <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:39:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

While I agree he was fair about reviewing the car, it was the ending that
blew it. After showing the car and all it's pluses and minuses, he flatly
stated the car was a dead end. No way it will survive. Most people watching
the show (who aren't familiar with the realities of EVs) will accept his
conclusion as fact. No matter how balanced the review, he completely wrote
off not only Tesla, but all electric cars. ...

From: Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:53:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

Hmm, you thought it was fair that they wrote the vehicle off
completely based on a couple of minor teething problems after
thrashing it around the track? ...



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

And now for something completely different; did you see the follow-on to th=
at segment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLbVAvdT1fs

They like (err... are in love with) the FCX Clarity, mainly because it has =
a 3 minute charge time / 200 mi range. (Ignoring that we get H2 from Nat=
Gas currently because H2O->H2 is inefficient)
LiION / LiFePo can't do that, but A123 and LiTi cells can be recharged in 5=
minutes (80%) or 10 minutes (100%). These figures also apply for the EESt=
or...

You need a good bit of juice (this would be the peak current):
@400VDC, that's 1500A going into the pack (36KWh)!
>From the wall (err... for various illusions of walls):
480V @ 1250A
800V @ 750A (Marta Rail Voltage)
2300V @ 260A ("Medium industrial voltage")
4160V @ 144A ("High industrial voltage") -- 1500 HP drives, minin=
g equipment
13.6KV @50A (Overhead transmission lines)

Doable, but you need a good industrial pad and probably your own way of sto=
ring energy (so the utility doesn't slap you for pulling 50A on their HV li=
nes without coordination!). You can get 4160 buss-bar service (DBK had a=
pair of 900 HP sump drains, as well as a 4.4MW kiln).
This "charging station" is still more impressive; this loading would be a 3=
6MW service [for 5 minutes, but imagine a stream of cars!]; =

-- About the size of 1 very smallTVA hydro plant (http://www.tva.=
gov/sites/blueridge.htm).
=


All that for just 150 cars / workday. Gasoline is truly the fuel of the =
gods. =

Except maybe nuclear.

-Thor Johnson (who only has the name of a god, so will stick with charging =
his car overnight)

PS. I wonder why the Tesla motor was air-cooled... The batteries aren't.

________________________________________
From: [email protected] on behalf of Dave King
Sent: Mon 12/15/2008 11:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear
Being a fan of the show I can safely say that it was a a fair segment
bordering on ecstatic for those guys.
What they commented on is what the shortcoming are when compared to
an ice engine vehicle. They play
with some pretty expensive cars on there and it is performance
oriented. So they do the show where
the rubber hits the road. Thats about what any petrol head or someone
thinking about ev's for the first time
would see as well.

If you watched the show before you have to compare Jeezers(aka
Clarkson) reaction to the Tesla compared
to the few previous ev reviews where they ended up ridiculing the
car. Go to youtube and search for Top Gear
and G-wiz and you will see what they do when they really don't like
something. ;-]

If you look at this without prejudice you can see that the only
problem that can't be fixed is the batteries.
Probably the only real problem there has ever really been for ev's.

Dave


At 04:29 PM 15/12/2008, you wrote:
>Well put. That's how it came across to me as well. I also thought the
>note about 'mileage' was unfair. That's like taking an ICE car that's
>rated at 30 MPG and flogging it on a test track and complaining it only
>got 15 MPG. I also was disappointed how they basically wrote it off at
>the end like - "oh, another worthless EV".
>
>I did note he had a solid EV grin when he outran the Elise on the
>straightaway!
>
>- SteveS
>
>David Dymaxion wrote:
> > I would disagree, I think it was a fair review worth watching.
> They were ecstatic about the straight line acceleration, and a lap
> time the same as a Porsche GT3. They noted it was much faster than
> the gasoline Lotus. Even though the gas Lotus outcornered the
> Tesla, they noted the Tesla was hobbled with "eco" tires.
> >
> > They noted the same negatives as they would on any other car:
> Motor overheated on one car, heavier than the gas version, brakes
> had a problem on another car, and recharging would take 16 hours.
> The one unfair criticism I thought was that the car went only 55
> miles on a charge under track conditions. Leaving about 3 gallons
> to prevent starvation, my gas car goes only about 30 miles on a
> tank in autocross conditions, and about 60 miles on the racetrack.
> 55 hard driven miles for a much faster car is very impressive!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:30:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear
> >
> >


> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Up on intertubes already
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHHYOBXw7CPw
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> 480V @ 1250A


Hm, I calculate a different amperage; have I made a mistake:

36000Wh / 480V = 75A

75A * 6 (10 minutes is 1/6 hour) = 450A

Bill Dennis

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So how many cars are typically filled from a gas pump and how much does the=
infrastructure of a gas station cost and why do you think they are on very=
other street corner?

Anyhow - that data is irrelevant, all that is important is if a recharge st=
ation has a business case or not.

BTW,
Just like not every gas car fills up to full from empty, neither will every=
EV pulling into a charge station try to get a full charge. They may want t=
o get a partial charge while sipping a coffee or taking a (restroom) break =
or just stretch their legs.
Assuming an average 20kWh or so on a charge and the requirement that this n=
ever takes longer than 10 min, the energy requirements become (per "pump" i=
n the recharge station):
20kWh / 10 min =3D 120kW
This is 1000A at 120V; 500A at 240V (just slightly more than a new service =
of a large home)
250A at 480V....

If you have several recharge "pumps" then you may have some "over-subscript=
ion" or "sharing" of a common feed
of for example 1 MW for 10 stations, this may even allow some pumps to char=
ge at a higher rate while not all pumps are in use or where people will see=
slightly lower current (as in a finish charge....) and I do not think that=
is anything special for an industry business.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Thor Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

And now for something completely different; did you see the follow-on to th=
at segment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLbVAvdT1fs

They like (err... are in love with) the FCX Clarity, mainly because it has =
a 3 minute charge time / 200 mi range. (Ignoring that we get H2 from Nat=
Gas currently because H2O->H2 is inefficient) LiION / LiFePo can't do that,=
but A123 and LiTi cells can be recharged in 5 minutes (80%) or 10 minutes =
(100%). These figures also apply for the EEStor...

You need a good bit of juice (this would be the peak current):
@400VDC, that's 1500A going into the pack (36KWh)!
>From the wall (err... for various illusions of walls):
480V @ 1250A
800V @ 750A (Marta Rail Voltage)
2300V @ 260A ("Medium industrial voltage")
4160V @ 144A ("High industrial voltage") -- 1500 HP drives, minin=
g equipment 13.6KV @50A (Overhead transmission lines)

Doable, but you need a good industrial pad and probably your own way of sto=
ring energy (so the utility doesn't slap you for pulling 50A on their HV li=
nes without coordination!). You can get 4160 buss-bar service (DBK had a=
pair of 900 HP sump drains, as well as a 4.4MW kiln).
This "charging station" is still more impressive; this loading would be a 3=
6MW service [for 5 minutes, but imagine a stream of cars!];
-- About the size of 1 very smallTVA hydro plant (http://www.tva.=
gov/sites/blueridge.htm).
=


All that for just 150 cars / workday. Gasoline is truly the fuel of the =
gods. =

Except maybe nuclear.

-Thor Johnson (who only has the name of a god, so will stick with charging =
his car overnight)

PS. I wonder why the Tesla motor was air-cooled... The batteries aren't.

________________________________________
From: [email protected] on behalf of Dave King
Sent: Mon 12/15/2008 11:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear
Being a fan of the show I can safely say that it was a a fair segment
bordering on ecstatic for those guys.
What they commented on is what the shortcoming are when compared to
an ice engine vehicle. They play
with some pretty expensive cars on there and it is performance
oriented. So they do the show where
the rubber hits the road. Thats about what any petrol head or someone
thinking about ev's for the first time
would see as well.

If you watched the show before you have to compare Jeezers(aka
Clarkson) reaction to the Tesla compared
to the few previous ev reviews where they ended up ridiculing the
car. Go to youtube and search for Top Gear
and G-wiz and you will see what they do when they really don't like
something. ;-]

If you look at this without prejudice you can see that the only
problem that can't be fixed is the batteries.
Probably the only real problem there has ever really been for ev's.

Dave


At 04:29 PM 15/12/2008, you wrote:
>Well put. That's how it came across to me as well. I also thought the
>note about 'mileage' was unfair. That's like taking an ICE car that's
>rated at 30 MPG and flogging it on a test track and complaining it only
>got 15 MPG. I also was disappointed how they basically wrote it off at
>the end like - "oh, another worthless EV".
>
>I did note he had a solid EV grin when he outran the Elise on the
>straightaway!
>
>- SteveS
>
>David Dymaxion wrote:
> > I would disagree, I think it was a fair review worth watching.
> They were ecstatic about the straight line acceleration, and a lap
> time the same as a Porsche GT3. They noted it was much faster than
> the gasoline Lotus. Even though the gas Lotus outcornered the
> Tesla, they noted the Tesla was hobbled with "eco" tires.
> >
> > They noted the same negatives as they would on any other car:
> Motor overheated on one car, heavier than the gas version, brakes
> had a problem on another car, and recharging would take 16 hours.
> The one unfair criticism I thought was that the car went only 55
> miles on a charge under track conditions. Leaving about 3 gallons
> to prevent starvation, my gas car goes only about 30 miles on a
> tank in autocross conditions, and about 60 miles on the racetrack.
> 55 hard driven miles for a much faster car is very impressive!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected].xxx.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:30:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear
> >
> >


> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Up on intertubes already
> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHHYOBXw7CPw
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Now we have EVs that mindlessly mimic every feature and fault of ICEs.
> > The Prius creeps like an idling ICE with an automatic transmission, even
> > though it *has* no transmission and the engine doesn't idle.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rick Beebe wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Now we have EVs that mindlessly mimic every feature and fault of ICEs.
> >> The Prius creeps like an idling ICE with an automatic transmission, even
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I noticed this with the AC Propulsion eBox. If you come to a stop on a
slight uphill, an ICE with an automatic tranny will hold itself in place
with your foot off of the brake pedal. The eBox drives like an ICE with
an automatic tranny (right pedal = speed up, left pedal = slow down) but
if you stop on a slight uphill, as soon as you come to a stop you start
rolling backwards and have to step on the brake. One part of me (the
"I'm used to how automatics work in ICEs" part) thinks "hey that's
weird", but another part of me (the "I know what's going on because I'm
an engineer" part) thinks "of course, that makes perfect sense".

I'm eagerly anticipating the next change of driving habit - sitting at a
stoplight with a stickshift, and no foot on the clutch while I'm still
in gear. I'll probably need to remember my parking brake reflexes from
my stickshift days when I'm stopped pointing uphill.

Best Regards,

- Gene




> Rick Beebe wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Now we have EVs that mindlessly mimic every feature and fault of
> ICEs.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

They're adding it to manual transmissions; Subaru "Hill Start Assist"
and such (though I think they might have done it right with a "small
brake" that engages if the car isn't level and isn't moving).

The reason they weren't there before is that it would burn up the clutch
(since there was no fluid coupling for "partial power transmission").

For an EV, holding still on an incline would drain the pack (and
quickly!), but I'm not sure a small "creep bias" would add much. 

Rocking back and forth on hills like some drivers do with ICE engines
would be suicide for the pack.

-Thor


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:55 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear



> Rick Beebe wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Now we have EVs that mindlessly mimic every feature and fault of
> ICEs.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Holding the vehicle on a hill with the motor may not be much battery
power, but it's a lot of motor current, which causes unnecessary
heating and waste. It makes so much more sense to just use the
mechanical brakes for their intended purpose.

An automated system to apply the brakes in such a situation seems like
a cleaner solution if drivers insist on ICE-like behavior.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Thor Johnson


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > They're adding it to manual transmissions; Subaru "Hill Start Assist"
> > and such (though I think they might have done it right with a "small
> > brake" that engages if the car isn't level and isn't moving).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Thor Johnson <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > They're adding it to manual transmissions; Subaru "Hill Start Assist"
> > and such (though I think they might have done it right with a "small
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tesla PR is doing a bit of damage control:
http://www.onelectriccars.com/top-gear-reviews-tesla-roadster-and-honda-fcx-clarity-hydrogen/548/
See the first comment

-kert



> dave cover <[email protected]> wrote:
> > While I agree he was fair about reviewing the car, it was the ending that
> > blew it. After showing the car and all it's pluses and minuses, he flatly
> > stated the car was a dead end. No way it will survive. Most people watching
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> And now for something completely different; did you see the follow-on to that segment:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLbVAvdT1fs
> 
OMG, that is funny. These guys just don't get it. "it is the car of the 
future because it is just like the car of today", "Drive 270 miles fill 
up and drive some more", "10 yards, 10 min to get to 40 and 4hours to 
charge" We need to plasma boy this guy.

We need to use the right tool for the job. We have to stop looking at 
these all or nothing scenarios. I mean who says we bail out all 3 
automakers or not at all?
Who says we must have hydrogen or BEV or ICE? I like chryslers jab, we 
won't be just a 1 electric car company.

I have driven about 18,000 miles in little 8 mile spurts to and from the 
store,school and work. I think Jay Leno said the only intelligent thing 
in there about how the new car will enable the SUV's to become weekend 
fun vehicles.

Not once in there did he mention, cost, PSI of tank and the blast 
radius, the loss of limb if he actually got that liquid hydrogen on him. 
Where the hydrogen comes from, how much energy it takes just to compress 
it. Preaching to the choir, but I wonder if they are funded by 
endorsements from companies that wouldn't take kindly to too positive a 
report on EV's
(I wondered how far he can get from the only hydrogen filling station, 
how many are there? )


It is ok, It is an electric car with a battery on board. Let them get 
them out there with all the mainstream accessories. We'll fix em.
> 
> They like (err... are in love with) the FCX Clarity, mainly because it has a 3 minute charge time / 200 mi range. (Ignoring that we get H2 from NatGas currently because H2O->H2 is inefficient)
> LiION / LiFePo can't do that, but A123 and LiTi cells can be recharged in 5 minutes (80%) or 10 minutes (100%). These figures also apply for the EEStor...
I don't think Evangelist should even try to get to a 3 min charge time. 
My car spends 10 hours in the parking lot at work and 8 hours in my 
driveway at home.
For the traveling salesman, get an FCV
For the Bus Driver, get NaturalGAs
For the student, towncar, firstcar, commuter car, get a friggen BEV. 
Rent the gasser once a year as needed.
If you are driving over 100 miles a day, you probably would not like the 
gas bill, electric bill, or the hydrogen bill. The energy source is not 
the problem.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

They're adding it to manual transmissions; Subaru "Hill Start Assist"
and such (though I think they might have done it right with a "small
brake" that engages if the car isn't level and isn't moving).

Didn't Studabaker have a manual transmission car that engaged the brake with
the clutch petal when it was pressed to the floor for hill operation? If
you had an EV with the clutch, would something like this be helpful?

Josh and Jen

-----
Josh and Jen 

www.jcsevparts.com 
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Tesla-on-Top-Gear-tp21012511p21046490.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Likewise, some have the opinion that Hydrogen will ultimately be a 
> better, carbon-free, and smaller energy cycle. So what! May the best 
> idea win.

I would like to point out that a hydrogen car *IS* an electric car. 
The hydrogen fuel cell is technically just a different battery 
chemistry. I know there's more to it than that, but that's the basic 
idea. Also, for the purpose of delivery, gas stations could cover 
their fueling stations with solar panels that could extract the H2 and 
store it on site.

Fuel cells could also be added to an electric car to increase range of 
a lead pack. Instead of a gas motor to charge the pack, you could 
either a) switch from using pack power to using hydrogen power or b) 
use the fuel cell to charge the pack.

Just something to think about.

~Jon

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:53 PM, David Dymaxion


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Guys guys, so negative! The glass is half full, not half empty!
> 
> ..
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 17 Dec 2008 at 1:48, Jon Bishop wrote:
> 
> > I would like to point out that a hydrogen car *IS* an electric car.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Rick Beebe wrote:
> >>
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Now we have EVs that mindlessly mimic every feature and fault of ICEs.
> > The Prius creeps like an idling ICE with an automatic transmission, even
> > though it *has* no transmission and the engine doesn't idle.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry, I am on the anti-creep side. I have always driven standard
transmissions and they definitely don't creep and I have never felt the
need for this 'feature'. Your scenario sound pretty fishy to me as
well. It would appear you left the key in the ignition as well as
leaving the vehicle in gear. Your example is more a call for additional
interlocks and safety features than a reason to have a car that creeps
when you don't have your foot on the accelerator pedal. My car as a
warning buzzer that goes off if I open the door with the key in the
ignition or the head lights on for example. An alarm might be a good
feature in an electric car if you have left it 'on' and open a door.
The parking brake should also probably disable the drive system.

Lawrence


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jorg Brown
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 3:50 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Lee Hart
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Lee Hart <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> > Now we have EVs that mindlessly mimic every feature and fault of ICEs.
> > The Prius creeps like an idling ICE with an automatic transmission,
> even
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 17 Dec 2008 at 13:10, Rick Beebe wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't waste gas as it's the electric motor that's moving it at
> > that speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I too am on the anti-creep side. I would prefer that the vehicle not 
move at all unless my foot is on the "move" pedal. When I take my 
foot off the move pedal it should come to a stop. If I need it to 
come to a stop faster, I can put my foot on the "emergency stop" pedal.

Except for emergencies I would like to use just the move pedal and I 
would like it to work something like a variable speed cruise 
control. If I push the pedal to 50mph, then I would like the car to 
go 50mph up hill, down hill, or on the level. If I move it back to 
45mph I would like the vehicle to slow down to 45mph. If I push it 
up to 65mph I would like the vehicle to speed up to 65. The farther 
the desired speed is from the current speed, the greater the 
acceleration (or deceleration).

If it worked like this I would never use anything but the "move" 
pedal. On the freeway, I would simply push my foot down as traffic 
sped up and ease my foot back up as traffic slowed down and remove it 
completely when traffic comes to a complete stop.

I think I would adjust to driving like this very easily. To speed 
up, push down. To slow down, ease back. To stop remove my foot 
completely. In an emergency, push the emergency pedal.

Ed


> Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Sorry, I am on the anti-creep side. I have always driven standard
> > transmissions and they definitely don't creep and I have never felt
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here's another thought: Creep mode on an EV can save energy! Now I know the experts here at the EVDL would never drive this way, but sadly many drivers treat the go pedal like an on/off switch. Instead of doing 100 and 200 amp surges every few seconds on the crowded freeway, with a creep mode they would release the brake pedal every few seconds, and the car creeps ahead at 20 or 40 Amps. Given Peukert effects and not much regen at those speeds, the creeping car will have better range.


The other thought is creep mode would encourage drivers to keep moving slowly and more steadily, rather than speeding up unnecessarily more to just brake away that extra energy.

I'm a die hard stick shift fan, but when I rented an EV1 I grew to like the creep mode. It let me know the car was on. When I didn't want it, I would just bump the shifter into neutral (like I do on automatic trannies I'm forced to rent).



________________________________
From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:53:04 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear



> On 17 Dec 2008 at 13:10, Rick Beebe wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't waste gas as it's the electric motor that's moving it at
> > that speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you read the design ideas and requirements about the Prius
(such as scattered through the e-book The Prius that shook the World)
then you can see that one of the design requirements for it
was to *exactly* mimic the behavior of a gas car where possible.
That is why when you turn the key, the engine *always* starts,
even when it is already warmed up and could stay off while you
drive electric - the "public" expects that an engine starts when 
you turn the key, so that is what is implemented (and it shuts of
a little reassuring while later)
Also the creep is to mimic the typical USA car (automatic gears).
For people driving stick shift the Prius was already going to be
a large change, but they were also likely to understand the
differences as they were capable of driving a stick in the first place.

The practical benefit of creep is that many intersections are higher
than the streets leading to it, so after waiting for the light the
car does not start rolling backward as soon as you release the brake,
rolling forward is usually harmless as that is the direction you want
to move in anyway and that is also where you are looking.

Since I am used to manual (stick) I can handle a car that rolls in
whatever way the gravity pulls it, but I felt the creep of the Prius
as a little helper, keeping me from the dreaded backward roll
without requiring me to do anything complex like clutch-in, handbrake,
release footbrake, add a little throttle, let clutch up a little,
wait for car to start pulling, release handbrake, add more throttle
and clutch out... Just let up on the brake and start throttling...

Like the EV1 and the US Electricar, also the Prius is a well
thought-out design and a joy to drive in most situations.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear



> On 17 Dec 2008 at 13:10, Rick Beebe wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't waste gas as it's the electric motor that's moving it at
> > that speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rick Beebe wrote:
> > It doesn't waste gas as it's the electric motor that's moving it at that
> > speed.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Rick Beebe wrote:
> >> It doesn't waste gas as it's the electric motor that's moving it at that
> >> speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rick Beebe wrote:
> > True with a conventional ICE and automatic transmission. Doesn't seem to
> > be true in my Mariner, though I don't have a scanguage to confirm. But
> > the ICE doesn't change speed when I put it in gear.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On my smart car when you are at a full stop the brake stays engaged
after you take your foot off the pedal for about 2 seconds or until you
put your foot on the accellerator. The Subaru has a one way gear system
that does not allow the car to roll back (unless it's in reverse). Both
of these allow for hill hold without resorting to a creep mode. I think
there are better solutions to the problem than continue to support what
was essentially a limitation with automatic transmissions. To address
the creep mode in an electric vehicle it would be almost trivial to
allow for a slow drive mode, just flip a switch to allow for 0-10
instead of 0-100.

I understand that Toyta probably did a lot of research to make the Prius
as smooth a transiton as possible but now the hybird is an accepted
vehicle they could make some changes. I leared to drive an automatic
and the switch to stick was a big one, going back is easy except for the
occasional swipe at the shifter that's not there .

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:34 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

If you read the design ideas and requirements about the Prius
(such as scattered through the e-book The Prius that shook the World)
then you can see that one of the design requirements for it
was to *exactly* mimic the behavior of a gas car where possible.
That is why when you turn the key, the engine *always* starts,
even when it is already warmed up and could stay off while you
drive electric - the "public" expects that an engine starts when 
you turn the key, so that is what is implemented (and it shuts of
a little reassuring while later)
Also the creep is to mimic the typical USA car (automatic gears).
For people driving stick shift the Prius was already going to be
a large change, but they were also likely to understand the
differences as they were capable of driving a stick in the first place.

The practical benefit of creep is that many intersections are higher
than the streets leading to it, so after waiting for the light the
car does not start rolling backward as soon as you release the brake,
rolling forward is usually harmless as that is the direction you want
to move in anyway and that is also where you are looking.

Since I am used to manual (stick) I can handle a car that rolls in
whatever way the gravity pulls it, but I felt the creep of the Prius
as a little helper, keeping me from the dreaded backward roll
without requiring me to do anything complex like clutch-in, handbrake,
release footbrake, add a little throttle, let clutch up a little,
wait for car to start pulling, release handbrake, add more throttle
and clutch out... Just let up on the brake and start throttling...

Like the EV1 and the US Electricar, also the Prius is a well
thought-out design and a joy to drive in most situations.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear



> On 17 Dec 2008 at 13:10, Rick Beebe wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't waste gas as it's the electric motor that's moving it at
> > that speed.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Harris, Lawrence <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I learned to drive an automatic
> > and the switch to stick was a big one, going back is easy except for the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I just returned from 5 months in India, so now I find
myself searching the stick but instead finding the
door handle, because the stick is at my right side again...

So what does this have to do with Tesla' roadster?

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:02 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Harris, Lawrence <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I learned to drive an automatic
> > and the switch to stick was a big one, going back is easy except for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nothing any more so I guess we should just let it go.

However I must congratulate you. I was only there for a week and hired
a driver after deciding that I didn't think I could develop the
automatic driving reactions needed to avoid running someone over or
being run over. I drove in Australia and New Zealand where the I was
happy the shift pattern was the same even if I had to use my left hand.
Adding the honking and jockeying for position on the roads along with
sharing it intimately with pedestrians, bicycles, scooters, ox carts and
cows was more than I was willing to risk.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:23 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

I just returned from 5 months in India, so now I find
myself searching the stick but instead finding the
door handle, because the stick is at my right side again...

So what does this have to do with Tesla' roadster?

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:02 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Harris, Lawrence <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I learned to drive an automatic
> > and the switch to stick was a big one, going back is easy except for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My wife also did not want to take the risk and frustration
so she also hired a driver, but I see it as a challenge
and that is also why I bought an old car - only brand new cars
are scratch-free, as soon as they are being driven a couple
months they have received enough (too) close encounters.
In particular buses and trucks (lorries) have a tendency
to act that because they are big, you should be impressed so 
they can "push" you aside.
Otherwise they would never get anywhere, because constantly
(small) cars and motor-bikes would take the spot they try to
occupy.
But close encounters are a fact of life there, at least once
a month you (almost) lose your mirrors, banging them against
the mirror of a car from opposite side, or a bus which just
passed swings back to the side of the road, so its tail
sweeps the area where you planned to let your mirror pass through...

Oh well, that is the advantage of an small and old car.

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]xx.xxx.edu] On
Behalf Of Harris, Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

Nothing any more so I guess we should just let it go.

However I must congratulate you. I was only there for a week and hired
a driver after deciding that I didn't think I could develop the
automatic driving reactions needed to avoid running someone over or
being run over. I drove in Australia and New Zealand where the I was
happy the shift pattern was the same even if I had to use my left hand.
Adding the honking and jockeying for position on the roads along with
sharing it intimately with pedestrians, bicycles, scooters, ox carts and
cows was more than I was willing to risk.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:23 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

I just returned from 5 months in India, so now I find myself searching
the stick but instead finding the door handle, because the stick is at
my right side again...

So what does this have to do with Tesla' roadster?

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:02 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Harris, Lawrence <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I learned to drive an automatic
> > and the switch to stick was a big one, going back is easy except for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Harris, Lawrence


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On my smart car when you are at a full stop the brake stays engaged
> > after you take your foot off the pedal for about 2 seconds or until you
> > put your foot on the accellerator. The Subaru has a one way gear system
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Evan Tuer wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Harris, Lawrence
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Haudy Kazemi <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/22/bbc_top_gear_tesla/

[..]A spokeswoman for the popular motoring show confirmed to Register
Hardware - as Tesla's head of spin, Rachel Konrad, recently claimed -
throughout the test, the show was never without a working Tesla.

"They never had to push a car off the track because of lack of charge
or a fault," Konrad wrote earlier this week. "It's unclear why they
were pushing one into a garage in the video; I'll refrain from
speculating about their motives."

Now we can reveal the answer: according to the Top Gear spokeswoman,
the tested Tesla was filmed being pushed into the shed in order to
show what would happen *if* the Roadster had run out of charge.[..]




> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Tesla PR is doing a bit of damage control:
> > http://www.onelectriccars.com/top-gear-reviews-tesla-roadster-and-honda-fcx-clarity-hydrogen/548/
> > See the first comment
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

...so next time they rave about a Volvo Station wagon,
or other gas car, they will also show it being pushed into 
a gas station to show what happens *if* you run out of gas?
I still see a lot of bias in their review...
Apparently it will take a long time to 'educate' the general
public about the applicability of EVs.
What I find works best is to simply drive it everywhere and
when people ask, just say how often you can use it and how
far and few between the cases are when it is not applicable
as there is nothing that is more convincing than a product
that works.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:23 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla on Top Gear

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/22/bbc_top_gear_tesla/

[..]A spokeswoman for the popular motoring show confirmed to Register
Hardware - as Tesla's head of spin, Rachel Konrad, recently claimed -
throughout the test, the show was never without a working Tesla.

"They never had to push a car off the track because of lack of charge or
a fault," Konrad wrote earlier this week. "It's unclear why they were
pushing one into a garage in the video; I'll refrain from speculating
about their motives."

Now we can reveal the answer: according to the Top Gear spokeswoman, the
tested Tesla was filmed being pushed into the shed in order to show what
would happen *if* the Roadster had run out of charge.[..]




> Kaido Kert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Tesla PR is doing a bit of damage control:
> > http://www.onelectriccars.com/top-gear-reviews-tesla-roadster-and-hond
> > a-fcx-clarity-hydrogen/548/
> ...


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