# [EVDL] paradigm shift



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I certainly agree that, ultimately, locations where one can charge can be
much more prolific than gas stations. However, it seems a large stretch to
include the time going to a gas station as part of the refueling time.

I think most people stop to fill up while on some other errand. Second, as
was indicated in another post, many people do not have the opportunity to
charge at home - rental house, no off-street parking, apartment, ... Thus,
it seems most people (not the early adopters like us) will not see charging
at home as a big advantage.

Maybe in the very long run, there will be opportunity charging just about
everywhere you can stop a car. In the very long run 

Peri




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of robert winfield
Sent: 02 July, 2012 3:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] paradigm shift


Comments lifted from an article by a fellow EV club member
"The gas vehicle must be driven to a public gas station to re-fuel and once
there, then the gas pump can rapidly transfer energy to the gas tank in a
few minutes. We think that is fast, but we overlook the inconvenience of
having to make the trip to the gas station in the first place. With
Electric vehicles, not only must we forget the gas pump concept, but also
even the concept of going to a refueling station in the first place. An EV
can charge almost anywhere, anytime (when not moving) from the electric grid
which is the single most pervasive and ubiquitous network in the USA and
because it is charging while parked at home and at work and elsewhere, the
inconvenience of refueling is nothing more than the few seconds to plug and
unplug. 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why not when it's moving? I imagine that sections of highway could have a
cable buried for inductive power transfer.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of robert winfield
Sent: Tuesday, 3 July 2012 10:59 a.m.
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] paradigm shift


Comments lifted from an article by a fellow EV club member
"The gas vehicle must be driven to a public gas station to re-fuel and once
there, then the gas pump can rapidly transfer energy to the gas tank in a
few minutes. We think that is fast, but we overlook the inconvenience of
having to make the trip to the gas station in the first place. With
Electric vehicles, not only must we forget the gas pump concept, but also
even the concept of going to a refueling station in the first place. An EV
can charge almost anywhere, anytime (when not moving) from the electric grid
which is the single most pervasive and ubiquitous network in the USA and
because it is charging while parked at home and at work and elsewhere, the
inconvenience of refueling is nothing more than the few seconds to plug and
unplug. 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2437.1.1/5107 - Release Date: 07/04/12
06:34:00

_______________________________________________
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|
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> George Tyler wrote:
> > Why not when it's moving? I imagine that sections of highway could have a
> > cable buried for inductive power transfer.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That is why you need to swipe your charger smartcard =

(ChargePoint or Blink or whatever) and this allows even
"dumb" (no computer / no communication) conversions to
charge at a "smart" EVSE. I can (and plan to) add a J-1772
inlet to my 1989 truck, which means that I can charge at
just about any of the active public charge points in the area
by just swiping my card. All the truck has to do is to accept
the 240V AC and not draw more than about 25A which is exactly
what my non-computerized Bycan charger does. The J-1772 inlet
will have to go through the pilot handshake to make the EVSE
happy, but there are small control boards for that - it does
not even need a processor, just buy that board together with
the inlet plug and install in a weatherproof box in the
original fuel filler door. Cool, can I finally use that door
to fuel up the truck and since it is right next to the
driver door, there is no need to add a warning to not drive
away with the vehicle plugged in - you have to step over or
push the cord out of the way to get into the cabin...

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:38 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] paradigm shift

Inductive charging while driving is in the active R&D stage. A search of th=
e nabble evdl archive gives:

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4360944
EVLN: Embeded-highway magnetic-resonance EVSE

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4336856
Article: "The Dawn of the Electric Highway"


Inductive charging while parked is already available with two major players=
vying for your business. Some Automakers are including inductive charging =
with their plugin-vehicle as a selling point.

To my knowledge the current highest transfer rate is at 5kW which IMO, is p=
lenty to make it doable and quite close to the same power/charging-rate of =
the 6.6kW a public J1772 EVSE could provide. Plus an advantage inductive gi=
ves over refueling ice is the transfer can be hands-free or autonomous/self=
-driving accessible. Imagine a safe inductive L3 charge in 15 minutes?

Today, short of throwing cash at a valet, the fastest refuel of an ice for =
most people takes the time of: waiting in line to get to the pump, credit-c=
ard the pump and push all the buttons to begin, and returning the handle to=
the pump without spilling stinky petrol on yourself.

Whereas, pulling into an inductive spot, an inductive EVSE could read the E=
V/pih, know its ID, thus use-co$t is approved, and begin the charge immedia=
tely. With all the wireless hi-tech in today's Production EV/pih the driver=
could know and approve of the co$t of the charge before arriving and pulli=
ng into their reserved EVSE spot.


I do not know if today's J1772 allows for reading who/what is plugged in, b=
ut I would assume with the large push for V2G (grid connected vehicles), th=
at might already be in place but just not enabled as of yet (Big-Brother is=
watching).

Knowing who is plugged in (conductive or inductive) could allow automatic b=
illing and charging no matter where it is plugged in or who is plugging in. =


A possible future scenario:
A non-Fed employee comes in and charges while visiting a Fed facility.
The EVSE could know to either charge money for the EVSE use, or not if it i=
s one of their employees. It would be mainly installed for company/employee=
use, but the public could also use it if they are willing to pay.


At some point, today's Production EV/pih may be considered 'dumb' and need =
a retrofit to make it 'smart' enough to use all that I envisioned (above). =
Just another business opportunity for some bring person.
Ah, future so bright you gotta wear shades ...
[video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3D8qrriKcwvlY
emimusic on Mar 12, 2009
Music video by Timbuk 3 performing The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Sha=
des.
]

. ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=3D Get Amp'd
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
brucedp.150m.com
*Originator of the above ASCII art
% Renewable Energy for your Electric Vehicle %



-


> Lee Hart wrote:
> > George Tyler wrote:
> > > Why not when it's moving? I imagine that sections of highway could =
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > I can (and plan to) add a J-1772
> > inlet to my 1989 truck, which means that I can charge at
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Roger,
Since the logic in the vehicle side is so simple,
I contemplate rolling my own and also include a
check for the 50% duty cycle on the pilot signal
(indicating that 30A is available.)
If less is available (temporarily) then I might
take action such as dropping a relay to either disable
the charger completely (no AC pass through) or reduce 
the charger draw to less than 10A, for example by
simply wiring a resistor in series with the pack on
the output of the charger's transformer and diodes.
While the normal bulk charging voltage is around 130-135V,
the current drops to 3-4A when the pack rises to 150V so
I probably need less than 0.6 Ohm resistance to allow approx
10V increase to 140V at max 17A which means that the primary
will be under 10A but I am still charging away at 2+kW.
As soon as the pilot returns to 50% duty cycle the series
resistor is again bridged by the relay and charging at the
full power. That resistor can be as simple as two parallel
fog lights (12V 100W) from pick-n-pull. Should be fun to
suddenly see a huge light come on inside the EV to drop
the power draw - note that it is connected to the pack so
it should be mounted away from ground connection!

However, checking my charger specs I see that it has a max
25A output and even if it succeeds in delivering this at a
pack voltage of say 140V then this means 3.5kW or about 14A
so I doubt that my charger will even be turned off by an EVSE
even if it does not allow full level 2 charging by modulating
its pilot signal.
I believe that the levels that can be signaled by the pilot are:
10% PWM is 10A max, 25% PWM is 16A max, 50% PWM is 32A max.

So I (and most Leafs) should be fine at 25% PWM and only need
to reduce power at 10% PWM pilot signal.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:51 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] paradigm shift



> Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > I can (and plan to) add a J-1772
> > inlet to my 1989 truck, which means that I can charge at just about
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > Since the logic in the vehicle side is so simple,
> > I contemplate rolling my own and also include a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have had the opportunity to review and analyze the circuitry of several
very popular J1772 EVSE units and although it is provided for in the
specifications and features as approved by UL, in actual fact, only 50/50
was implemented in the equipment and instead a specification of source
power demands sufficient current be available, (economy in Manufacturing by
simplification of circuitry? Perhaps.) The circuitry
to ascertain the quantity of current available would seem fairly complex,
but *printing a specification* stating sufficient current *MUST* be
supplied is *very inexpensive* !
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (863)944-9913 (call noon to midnight Eastern time)
*[email protected]*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
*Offering a 12 day class Sept. 10 to 22, 2012 *
*in Central Florida. more info on Web;
WWW.ElectricVehicleTechnicalinstitute.COM<http://www.electricvehicletechnicalinstitute.com/>
*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*


> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 7/6/2012 2:32 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > > If less [power] is available (temporarily) then I might
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Much like when installing a 30 amp outlet it is required that the circuit
feeding it is sized for 30 amps. Why would an EVSE be any different?


> "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I have had the opportunity to review and analyze the circuitry of several
> > very popular J1772 EVSE units and although it is provided for in the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger, Cor. and Peter, the point I was attempting to male was if the 30
amps at 208/240VAC is not available the duty cycle of the 1Khz square wave
is suposed to warn the on vehicle charging equipment, but the major EVSE
J1772 level 2 equipment aren't implementing it in their units, and instead
merely mandating sufficient current be made available. so why implement in
your vehicle if it will likely never actually be called upon to operate???
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (863)944-9913 (call noon to midnight Eastern time)
*[email protected]*
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
*Offering a 12 day class Sept. 10 to 22, 2012 *
*in Central Florida. more info on Web;
WWW.ElectricVehicleTechnicalinstitute.COM<http://www.electricvehicletechnicalinstitute.com/>
*
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 1:47 AM, Peter Gabrielsson <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Much like when installing a 30 amp outlet it is required that the circuit
> feeding it is sized for 30 amps. Why would an EVSE be any different?
>


> "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > I have had the opportunity to review and analyze the circuitry of several
> > > very popular J1772 EVSE units and although it is provided for in the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 7 Jul 2012 at 22:51, Dennis Miles wrote:
> 
> > so why implement in your vehicle if it will likely never actually be
> > called upon to operate?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Because although most EVSE's use a fixed 30A supply, you may want to
charge at a low-power EVSE that uses a fixed 12A or 16A.
Alternatively, you may want to charge somewhere where the local
electric utility is doing a project with EVSE makers and businesses to
adjust available current based on grid loading.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Roger, Cor. and Peter, the point I was attempting to male was if the 30
> > amps at 208/240VAC is not available the duty cycle of the 1Khz square wave
> > is suposed to warn the on vehicle charging equipment, but the major EVSE
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dennis Miles wrote:
> 
> > Roger, Cor. and Peter, the point I was attempting to male was if the 30
> > amps at 208/240VAC is not available the duty cycle of the 1Khz square wave
> ...


----------

