# Finding a motor for my EV lawn tractor project



## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Another question that I have about motor choice for this project. Is series wound the only DC motor that would be a good choice for a project like this? I am very new to the game of electric motors so I am unsure about that.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks like a winch motor.

I would be concerned about its duty cycle, how long it will run and at what load before it over heats.

It is only 4" diameter, maybe 6-7" would be better.

I would be tempted to run a second motor for the cutter as that would want to maintain a high cut speed where as the tractor may be varying its speed. The cutter motor could be a shunt motor to maintian contant speed regardless of load and work on an on/off switch.

Someone who knows better may advise you differently.

A series motor would be the easiest and cheapest to use as a drive motor as controllers are more available.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Woodsmith said:


> That looks like a winch motor.
> 
> I would be concerned about its duty cycle, how long it will run and at what load before it over heats.
> 
> ...


Yeah I wasn't really sure about it either. I sent a message to the seller about it as they have quite a few of these on eBay as rebuilt. They seem to claim that they are useful for goKarts etc but I'm not so sure that they would work out for a tractor. I will keep looking and not waste my time with it. 

I am more and more sure that I will run something like a small shunt motor for the deck. I really find that when I am cutting the grass with the mower I always run the deck at the same speed so it would just come down to choosing a motor with decent RPM and attaching the proper pulley to gear it properly to turn the blades.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Another question that I have about motor choice for this project. Is series wound the only DC motor that would be a good choice for a project like this? I am very new to the game of electric motors so I am unsure about that.


Hi proc,

It all depends on what you are doing and what you want. Almost any type of motor could be used. Lawn tractor conversions to EV are a great way to get your EV feet wet, so to speak. To motivate a lawn tractor at low speed (as it was intended) takes surprising low motor power. They typically have high ratio gearboxes, pulleys or axels. They tend to use high power IC engines because they power mower decks.

So if you want a low speed non mowing, non towing tractor, you could likely get by with a low power motor, maybe 1/2 hp or less. For higher speed and/or towing, maybe 1 to 2 hp. For mowing, all bets are off. That takes a lot of power and is a bitch for an electric mower. The main saving grace is that it will drain the batteries quickly, hopefully before the motor burns up  So I'm not going into deck motors.

So look at it this way. For propulsion, you have a vehicle smaller and slower than a golf cart, which typically use 6.6 inch motors rated about 3 or 4 hp. They run 36 or 48 volts with like 275 amp limit controllers. So a golf cart motor should be more than enough. Only trouble is that GC motors don't come with DE bearings and have internal splined shafts.

There isn't a lot of good motor choice smaller than the 6.6 inch motor. Forget about that winch motor on eBay. You might be able to find a 4.5 or 5 inch PM motor which would work for you.

The other thing about E-tractors is the coupling to the drive. A lot of the tractors come with a belt and tensioner drive from the ICE. This often is linked to the brake, so when you press the foot pedal, it disengages the engine (clutch like) and then applied the brake. If you use a series wound motor, you cannot use this set-up as it will unload the motor and cause motor overspeed and damage. If you have a PM, shunt or compound motor, you could use it.

A lot of guys try E-tractors without a motor controller. I suggest you use a controller. It will be a better setup and you'll gain the experience. It is particularly important to have the controller with a series wound motor. And I suggest you go without the clutch. But keep the brake. And figure out how to turn the motor off when you apply the brake. The motor will out power the brake by a bunch.

The controller not only gives you speed control, but also current limit. Without it, just slamming the motor across the battery, you'll have unwanted wheelies or broken parts 

Enough for now. Maybe I look up my eTractor photo and post it. It's ugly, but been running strong for like 14 years.

Regards,

major


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

major said:


> Maybe I look up my eTractor photo and post it. It's ugly, but been running strong for like 14 years.


Here ya go


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Major:

I am definitely going to use a controller. Most likely it will be a clutchless setup as well with that pedal just being used for the brakes. I'm thinking about just installing a pedalof some sort for the controller instead of using the throttle. If I keep the original throttle I will definitely have to figure out how to install a switch to turn off the motor when the brake is applied.

As far as the mowing I am still clueless. I really wanted to do one that could mow but perhaps that isn't easily doable.


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## Olaf-Lampe (Feb 24, 2010)

I have a brushless Etek and Sevcon Controller for that kind of purpose on the shelf. I plan to build a kart, quad and lawn mower with it, just as prove of concept.
Roughly estimated 1/2h of mowing would need a 4kWh LA battery or a 2-3kWh Lithium battery. 
You shouldn't mowe when wet and you shouldn't wait too long between mowings. But with such a fun vehicle there are always volonteers to do the job for you ;-)
-Olaf


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Phew! that would be quite a pack of batteries. We pretty much mow once a week or every two weeks depending on the weather and the growth of the grass so we definitely won't be killing the deck. Perhaps if it can tow a small trailer with extra batteries when mowing it might be a workable solution. I will have to see about the mowing thing. After I prove that the mower can actually run on its own power perhaps a nice upgrade will be the installation of all the kit to run the deck later on. I have seen perhaps one other electric lawn tractor that actually mows so it is a very rare thing to say the least. We shall see about all that half. First, I just need to get the thing moving.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Instead of a trailer of batteries could you have a swapable pack?
You could then swap the pack mid cut and save carting the extra weight about.


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## Olaf-Lampe (Feb 24, 2010)

procupine14 said:


> Phew! that would be quite a pack of batteries. We pretty much mow once a week or every two weeks depending on the weather and the growth of the grass so we definitely won't be killing the deck. Perhaps if it can tow a small trailer with extra batteries when mowing it might be a workable solution. I will have to see about the mowing thing. After I prove that the mower can actually run on its own power perhaps a nice upgrade will be the installation of all the kit to run the deck later on. I have seen perhaps one other electric lawn tractor that actually mows so it is a very rare thing to say the least. We shall see about all that half. First, I just need to get the thing moving.


My scooter had a 2kWh battery pack weighting 18kg ( LiFePO4). Making them swappable is no big deal.
-Olaf


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

That could be a possibility. All I would really have to have in order to accomplish that would be a main disconnect for the leads to the motor and removable cages with batteries in them. Though I'm sure that would be a heavy exchange so I'm trying to weigh out the pros and cons of that.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well folks, I finally have had some time to get back on eBay and check out some more motors. My question now is about a motor that I found on eBay LINK I'm not really sure but I'm thinking that something like this has everything I want but has the one major fault. That female shaft is not welcoming and I'm not so sure that I could even work around that. However, just giving me an idea, am I moving in the right direction with this?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> However, just giving me an idea, am I moving in the right direction with this?


Nope. Keep looking. This is a compound wound power steering pump motor. Made for continuous operation at basically no load with excursions to 1/2 hp and max of 2 hp. Pretty low speed, low power. Won't tolerate overload well. And has a tang shaft drive to mate to pump. Bad motor for just about everything except for a power steer pump.

major


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

hahaha yeah I was kind of starting to think the same thing after a few.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Would one like this work? It has a splined male shaft.

http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/...rs/?action=view&current=Carriage3-8-08002.jpg


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Looks like a very promising motor. Is there anything else you know about it like what type of DC motor it is or duty cycle etc?


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

I wish I had more details on it. It is series wound. The tag says Yale, type R and part number 7300130. It is 9 1/2" x 7 1/2" diameter and weighs 60 lbs. It has dual shafts. It is nearly identical to the one I have on my Ninja with six 12v 85 a/h batteries except for the brush size. The motor on the Ninja has two inch brushes and this one has one inch I believe. Based on the weight and diameter, it may be a little bigger than this one: http://www.cloudelectric.com/product_p/mo-a00-4009.htm 

which is 80 amps continuous, 100 amps one hour.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

That motor looks to me like it fits the bill of what I am looking for perfectly!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> That motor looks to me like it fits the bill of what I am looking for perfectly!


procupine14,

You also should take a look at some of the Perm Mag Pancake motors. 

http://www.cloudelectric.com/product_p/mo-me-0708.htm

For use in a Cub Cadet type installation they offer a couple of positives. being shorter in length, if you move the motor as far to the rear as possible you should have room to mount batteries in the front. When I say as far to the rear as possible I mean couple the motor shaft directly to the transmission shaft, cutting releifs in the frame as required. 

I have another frame and transaxle here, that along with a friends left over eteck, I plan on trying to fit them togeather next winter. 

It probably won't be as powerful as a traditional series motor but they are more efficient, so for true garden tractor use they might be better.
Price wise they are comparable to less money.

Maybe one of the motor experts (Major are you listening) will comment on suitability.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> You also should take a look at some of the Perm Mag Pancake motors.


Hi Jim,

PM motor can work for you for the tractor propulsion, if you're not pulling tons on a sled behind you  But if you're going to try to power a mower deck also, I'd stay away from PM unless it is real big or brushless.

major


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

major said:


> But if you're going to try to power a mower deck also, I'd stay away from PM unless it is real big or brushless.
> 
> major


Well, that is what we are going to try for . I also have seen some companies online now that actually use small 1hp electric motors (generally two of them) to power the deck. Seeing those work on that tractor makes me think that there just might be a product out there that would allow me to actually try that method as a last resort if I am unable to find a suitable twin shaft motor

Hey Jim, 

I don't know if you saw it on my EV lawn tractor build post but I decided to run the purely belt driven tractor instead of the newer, shaft-driven, model. Only because of simplicity and perhaps later I will put it all in the newer, out of commission, tractor once I know how it all works and can confirm that it actually will move by itself and to a lesser extent mow the grass.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Hey Jim,
> 
> I don't know if you saw it on my EV lawn tractor build post but I decided to run the purely belt driven tractor instead of the newer, shaft-driven, model. Only because of simplicity and perhaps later I will put it all in the newer, out of commission, tractor once I know how it all works and can confirm that it actually will move by itself and to a lesser extent mow the grass.


 
Procupine14,

Interesting that you call it a Cub. I didn't know there was such a thing as a belt drive Cub Cadet way back when. If you don't mind and get a chance post a picture. Will this be a verticle shaft or horizontal motor shaft conversion.

As an aside I would think that it would be a lot simpler, safer and econimical to create a prime mover tractor, then make all of the accessories (mowers, tillers, snow blowers, push baldes) separately powered units, possibly with their own battery packs (that is how I'm going) or a hang on booster pack for the powered accessories. My mower deck will attach to the front of the Cub and carry a motor and two BIG batteries for 24 volts. I'm working on rebuilding a 38 inch 3 blade deck now. It will be drive up to latch and a electric screw jack to lift the deck. Same frame attachments system for the push blade again with screw jack adjustmeents. I'm thinking on an electric three point system for the back. I'm getting up there in age so I might not finish but it will keep me occupied for a while.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Would a matched pair of 7" series wound drive motors, one for propulsion and one for cutting be of any use? Originally planned to try to use both on a small truck conversion but since they are single shaft, I would rather get one 9-11" instead. Not trying to pressure you one way or the other, just thought I would throw it out there and could get you some pics.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

ngrimm said:


> Would a matched pair of 7" series wound drive motors, one for propulsion and one for cutting be of any use? Originally planned to try to use both on a small truck conversion but since they are single shaft, I would rather get one 9-11" instead. Not trying to pressure you one way or the other, just thought I would throw it out there and could get you some pics.


I would almost be interested in one of those motors but probably not both. I am still way up in the air about the whole mower part of the job so who knows. I think that a 7" just for the deck would be a lot of over kill for it and just end up burning through batteries. But definitely one for the traction would be pretty good like I said depending on the size of it.

Jim,

Yeah I know it was really strange. I was under the impression the whole time that all of the old tractors around here were shaft driven. However, this is definitely a yellow and white Cub Cadet International. I want to say its a 112 model or something like that. I really need to take some pictures of the little guy and get those up on my build thread, I really have a poor memory when it comes to those things but I am going to try


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

ngrimm said:


> Would a matched pair of 7" series wound drive motors, one for propulsion and one for cutting be of any use? Originally planned to try to use both on a small truck conversion but since they are single shaft, I would rather get one 9-11" instead. Not trying to pressure you one way or the other, just thought I would throw it out there and could get you some pics.


Hey ngrimm,

See post #5. For mowing speeds, the propulsion requirement is really quite low. A 7 incher is way more than you need, unless you have really steep hills or want to use it for things like plowing. Now the blade or deck motor is a different story. Big decks take a lot of power. I have a 17 hp gasser with a 48 inch deck and can stall the engine in tall wet grass. It is a bitch of an application for electric motors because most times they are undersized.

But on the hand, I had an old 7 incher which I put on a deck for a buddy of mine. He runs an old Electrak E15 on 36 volts with the front deck. His wimpy PM blade motors kept failing, so he bought one of those big tag-along decks without the engine. He welded up mounts to fit the front of his tractor and we mounted the 7 inch motor where the engine used to be. It is a 2 blade 60 inch deck. Belt drive from the vertical mounted motor. Motor is compound wound. This is the only electric mower which impresses me. It is a monster. I'll see if he can get me a photo.

Now you say your motors are series wound. These can be dangerous when used with belt drives. Those belts will always break at some point. When it does, your motor will explode 

Regards,

major


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

major said:


> Hey ngrimm,
> Now your say you motors are series wound. These can be dangerous when used with belt drives.
> major


Yeah I am thinking that the best motor to use for the deck will be something like a shunt wound or compound wound motor. Have you all taken a look at some of the electric lawn mowing tractors sold by private companies? I am really dying to know what motors they use for their decks because that would give me a lot of insight on what I would need to do my conversion.

I really wish I could find myself a nice little 6" motor somewhere for the drivetrain. 

Check out this site they use two small motors for their deck and one larger one for the traction. There is another company that I was able to talk to that said that they use two 1.5hp DC motors on their deck but of course they weren't about to elaborate on specs. 

A third company that I saw on the internet uses one larger motor on their deck because it is clearly displayed on top. If you google 'electric lawn tractor' you can find several of these companies out there that claim that their mowers can easily mow an acre on a charge. Not to mention that (since the max life of the batts on one of the companies' mowers is "no more than 250 - 400 cycles" that leads me to believe that they are using something like SLA batteries or something of the sort. They say that you would have to replace the batteries every 6 years or so which I suppose would be on par with a setup of SLAs that are only used once every week or so. The quoted price point on a set of batteries seems like it would be right in the range of SLAs at about 700-900 dollars for a set of four replacement batts. 

perhaps someone else can comment on this and set me straight on this or elaborate a bit more on these companies if there is anything that they know!


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Maybe it would be easier to find a shunt motor. If not, how about a spring loaded switch on an idler pulley that would open the contactor if the belt is disengaged, loose or broken? Something like a motorcycle brake light switch. Then you could use the original actuator lever to start or stop the blade. Of course if you had a belt for each blade I doubt they would both break at once. I could see where a small motor for each blade would be the best. 

On another note, this would be kind of fun to convert. I'm having to borrow a rototiller and they don't work that well on packed soil. Seems like the battery weight would actually be an advantage. What do you think?
http://medford.craigslist.org/grd/1664840971.html


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

if you have the muscle to man handle it I'm sure that it would work quite well.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

ngrimm said:


> On another note, this would be kind of fun to convert. I'm having to borrow a rototiller and they don't work that well on packed soil. Seems like the battery weight would actually be an advantage. What do you think?
> http://medford.craigslist.org/grd/1664840971.html


For my tractor project I built up from the transaxle from a Ransomes Vergecutter I found in the scrap yard.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well a little head way in my motor search. I found this motor on ebay and I think it looks promising. It is shunt wound with a female spline (this being the only problem it seems). However, it looks like this particular golf cart motor actually has a cover on the end of the motor instead of an open hole where a cover must be fabricated. 

thoughts?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Well a little head way in my motor search. I found this motor on ebay and I think it looks promising. It is shunt wound with a female spline (this being the only problem it seems). However, it looks like this particular golf cart motor actually has a cover on the end of the motor instead of an open hole where a cover must be fabricated.
> 
> thoughts?


Hey proc,

That is just a shipping plate. Not a DEH (Drive End Head). You'll have the same issue as the other GC motors, no DE bearing or DEH. And I don't recognize that motor. For the price, I would not chance it 

major


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Before you write off golf buggy motors have a look at my tractor thread and see how I made my DE cap and splined shaft to use on my one.

I made the DE cap in wood first to test the motor and then machined on in Aluminium. I then had to cut the splines myself but as there were only 10 splines and they were square section it wasn't too difficult.

19 splines would probably be tiny trianglular ones and more difficult to make accurately without the right equipment.

If it looks overly difficult for you then avoid capless female shaft motors.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Ahh, good to know! thanks major!

Woodsmith,

I'm definitely still contemplating a golf cart motor as they seem to fit the bill quite nicely for a tractor drive system. Your thread is pretty much the reason that I am still wanting to use one. I wonder if I can get a local machine shop or an auto parts store to find/make me a splined shaft to fit a 19 spline setup. I would attempt a 10 spline most likely but like you said 19 spline looks a bit too small for my inaccurate hand tools to cut.

thanks guys!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

procupine14 said:


> Ahh, good to know! thanks major!
> 
> Woodsmith,
> 
> ...


If you can find out what kind of golf cart it came from, there is a chance you can find a used and/or broken differential and get the input shaft from it. If you can find a whole cart cheap, you get the motor, shaft, and other parts in one shot. When I originally bought my forklift motor I initially started looking for the part off the Hyster forklift it plugged into, but happened to find a cheap tractor part with the right pattern. I found mine by Googling the dimensions (in my case 1.625" x 25T) in every possible type of phrase and format I could think of. I took a while, but I found exactly what I needed.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> If you can find out what kind of golf cart it came from, there is a chance you can find a used and/or broken differential and get the input shaft from it.


I have seen replacement pinion shafts from GC parts suppliers. And the 19 tooth shape is involute. Real tough to match without the proper cutter or hobb. The shaft would get half way to a whole motor


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

looks like if I can find another super cheap golf cart that hasn't been pulverized over the years I just might be able to salvage both! If I do that should I some how design something to keep the shafts together ie. some type of pin? Me thinks that it could potentially work its way out of the hole and cause some problems.

Another nice thing about most golf cart motors is that they are shunt wound and therefore would be perfect for a pulley-driven system since they aren't going to blast into a million pieces if I snap a belt.....which makes me a very happy camper


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

major said:


> I have seen replacement pinion shafts from GC parts suppliers. And the 19 tooth shape is involute. Real tough to match without the proper cutter or hobb. The shaft would get half way to a whole motor


Yeah, I didn't mean that (19 tooth) one, I just meant golf cart setups in general. The right motor, with the right female shaft, might have a reasonable solution. Of course, how much you can do for yourself has a lot to do with what's feasible as well. Woody's fabrication skills turned his impossible situation into a wheelie-popping monster!  



procupine14 said:


> looks like if I can find another super cheap golf cart that hasn't been pulverized over the years I just might be able to salvage both! If I do that should I some how design something to keep the shafts together ie. some type of pin? Me thinks that it could potentially work its way out of the hole and cause some problems...


You're still might need something to hold a bearing for the drive end. Some type of retainer can be incorporated into that. Could be as simple as cutting a groove in the shaft and using an external retaining ring behind the DE cap, or desiging the setup so the bearing traps the shaft. If you do find a whole cart, you might be able to cut up and modify parts from that. Just do it well, and safe. Seek the assistance of a competent machinist for the stuff you aren't able, or don't have the tools and equipment, to do yourself. Many of smaller machine shops are often willing to do simple projects pretty reasonably.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The easy thing with a whole or damaged cart is that you could just cut the side off the transmission where the motor mounts and have the bit of casting with a shaft and bearings all intact as if original.

Really comes down to what turns up first.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

You all are right. I am still hard at work finding parts. I am thinking about something like a tap in bearing set like you see on older truck axles. Considering that they are meant for fast revolutions and what not (not to mention that if you do it properly you would be able to knock out the tap in bearing set if they ever needed replaced) along with the fact that I think they would be simple and handle a lot of abuse. Like woodsmith said, it all comes down to what I can find first.


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## Toaster611 (Feb 20, 2009)

Porcupine


First post here
I have been using a brushed scrubber motor direct coupled to f/n/r ( no choice of gears) transmision since 2008
my tractor uses ~~10 A DC at 36 V running on level ground. its listed on EVDL , lots of torque motor is 3.25 hp PM 1400RPM

gas motor would have been near 2:1 coupled via belts,;
changed to direct drive to transaxle via sPider coupling.
gas motor would have spun aprox3600rpm so top speed is near same



set your priorities first- speed- power etc

I prefer to go seperate load seperate motor route, otherwise why go electric??

could send you more info or pics

working on more accesories-- Simon


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

hey there!

Yeah i would be really interested in more information and pictures of your build. I am trying to soak up as much information as possible in order to make the right choices in building this thing. Therefore, any extra information is extremely welcomed.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well, I went back to ebay and looked some more and asked around a lot at local shops but they don't seem interested/don't carry a product for my purposes. So its back to ebay. I did find this motor now I know that I have seen a few of these around before and a lot of people are pretty sure that they are winch motors. However, the seller of this motor in particular told me that the ratings are continuous duty. Now I'm not sure 100% what I think about all that but that is why I have the help of experts. Thoughts on this guys? This may have been a very similar or the same motor that I posted earlier but I got a little more info from the seller so I thought I would revisit briefly. The guy also told me that it is a series wound motor so that is good news as well. It may just be another dud but I'm trying here! The market isn't exactly flooded with purpose built electric tractor motors you know?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Well, I went back to ebay and looked some more and asked around a lot at local shops but they don't seem interested/don't carry a product for my purposes. So its back to ebay. I did find this motor now I know that I have seen a few of these around before and a lot of people are pretty sure that they are winch motors. However, the seller of this motor in particular told me that the ratings are continuous duty. Now I'm not sure 100% what I think about all that but that is why I have the help of experts. Thoughts on this guys? This may have been a very similar or the same motor that I posted earlier but I got a little more info from the seller so I thought I would revisit briefly. The guy also told me that it is a series wound motor so that is good news as well. It may just be another dud but I'm trying here! The market isn't exactly flooded with purpose built electric tractor motors you know?


I told you in post #5 that motor is a poor choice. It is a nice motor for a winch, but over priced and not really suitable for propulsion duty. Buy hey; it's your project and your money.

4hp continuous  No way.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

major said:


> I told you in post #5 that motor is a poor choice. It is a nice motor for a winch, but over priced and not really suitable for propulsion duty. Buy hey; it's your project and your money.
> 
> 4hp continuous  No way.


hahaha yeah I thought so. I will leave it alone and mentally note to never bring that one up again  there are just so many wrong motors for the job its a slow process finding the right one. Thanks Major!

Browsing around ebay this morning I did find this gem which might be a pretty suiting little motor if I decide that perm mag would be a good idea for the drive train. I don't know who posted this thing but it looks as if they lost almost all of the pictures on the way. Well, at least there is a lot of good information on the page


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Browsing around ebay this morning I did find this gem which might be a pretty suiting little motor if I decide that perm mag would be a good idea for the drive train.


In my "OPINION" (for what it is worth), this looks like it it a china knock off of a popular PM motor. The advertisment seems just a little too pushy for me to be comfortable with it. 

The price is atractive, but if you buy one be aware that you might be buying a doorstop.

When I first started looking for a motor I didn't heed advice and bought a 300.00 door stop myself. After spending another $75.00 to fix it I now have a $200.00 motor. After that I just waited until something came along that fit my budget and my project. It wasn't a perfect fit, but it does the job.

Be patient, eBay seems to run in cycles on used motors. Listen to people like Major, Ask questions, like you have been. Contact Jim Husted and see what he has available. Go to motor rebuilding shops and see what they have used or never picked up. 

Look through the available new motors from Advanced DC, Kostov and Netgain and other EV motor manufactures, they have some smaller motors that are attractive. 

Check with independant lift truck repair shops and technicians. After I got my motor I found a Hi Lo guy who had a number of rebuildable motors in his shed.

Keep looking, don't be in a rush.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

He wants $150 to ship a 25lb motor (numbers rounded up) - that would be enough of a "sign" to keep him form getting my money. You're at almost $400 - too close to the price of a real Etek. There's a real Etek on Ebay for $435. Search for Etek motor - there are more in the $400 range...


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## Toaster611 (Feb 20, 2009)

link to my tractor... 
http://www.evalbum.com/1816

straight cut gears in transaxle, sounds like driving an electric can-opener!


some pics....

regards- Simon





procupine14 said:


> hey there!
> 
> Yeah i would be really interested in more information and pictures of your build. I am trying to soak up as much information as possible in order to make the right choices in building this thing. Therefore, any extra information is extremely welcomed.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Hey guys thanks for your continued input and thanks a lot Toaster for your pictures etc. Very helpful indeed!


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well folks I have found another motor on ebay that I think might be my ticket if I can get it for a good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370223659475&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT This little gem looks pretty good for my purposes. I think it should be a real easy to get the brushes advanced and up the voltage to 48V I think I'm going to throw out a fairly low offer on account of the condition and appearance of the motor. Thoughts?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Well folks I have found another motor on ebay that I think might be my ticket if I can get it for a good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370223659475&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT This little gem looks pretty good for my purposes. I think it should be a real easy to get the brushes advanced and up the voltage to 48V I think I'm going to throw out a fairly low offer on account of the condition and appearance of the motor. Thoughts?


What is this? Like strike 3? No offense, but this isn't worth this asking price. See http://store.kta-ev.com/motors-dc-motors/amd-140-07-40012hp.aspx A few bucks more for a new motor which is much better design.

That one you link to is a PM motor, so brush advance is pointless. Wirewound armature and small brushes mean it won't tolerate overload. I might give it a try for $50. More than that, forgetaboutit.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

hahaha well then my apologies. I did say in my defense that I was planning on low balling the seller quite a bit.  I will keep trying.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Well folks I have found another motor on ebay that I think might be my ticket if I can get it for a good price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370223659475&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT This little gem looks pretty good for my purposes. I think it should be a real easy to get the brushes advanced and up the voltage to 48V I think I'm going to throw out a fairly low offer on account of the condition and appearance of the motor. Thoughts?


 
That looks like a floor scrubber motor and it looks like it is wired to turn in only one direction as it appears to have only two terminals. Is appears to have a very small commutator and from what I could see brushes as well.

Does it the right direction for your application? Best ask the seller before you put your money down.m I know they can be reversed sometines by changing internal connections but that may be expensive to do.

Since the motor is rated at 36 volts you shouldn't need to advance the brushes to go to 48 volts. 

I'm far far away from being a motor expert, but in MY OPINION, their asking price is way too expensive what what it is, unless you are trying to fix a floor scrubber that it was made for. But that's only my opinion. Maybe someone more knowledgable like major will give their opinion.

Take a look at this item on eBay 220572568673. it's a new appearing 24 to 48 volt 2.5 hp Sepex made by D&D motors for what may be an amazing price. I AM NOT recommending it, I don't know enough to do that, I just wanted you to see some of the other stuff out there.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well I will stop shaming myself on here now, at least I think so, with this motor: http://cgi.ebay.com/AMD-36v-36-Volt...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b12d21f9

Its a pretty commonly used one from Advanced DC Motors and looks in great condition. I might try and make an offer for a little less than the seller is wanting for it but I am not sure how well that will go considering that some sites I have seen this same motor for sale for at least a $200 premium so I'm not sure if I will be successful with that endeavour but I am going to try. Does this make up for the other terrible suggestions major?


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> Take a look at this item on eBay 220572568673. it's a new appearing 24 to 48 volt 2.5 hp Sepex made by D&D motors for what may be an amazing price. I AM NOT recommending it, I don't know enough to do that, I just wanted you to see some of the other stuff out there.


 
hey that looks like a pretty amazing price for what I am seeing. I didn't look too indepth at the actual specs and I haven't researched that one yet but perhaps that is a really great deal! Perhaps major will lend yet another helping hand on this issue since I clearly have no experience in this and don't really have a lot of insight into what is good and bad (since I've been picking real winners thus far ). I am definitely going to take a look at this though. Thanks again guys!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Both your find and majors are nice, either one should do you well for your project.

Jim

EDIT:

The one I pointed out is a Seperatly Excited (SepEx) motor and requires a specially maped controller or othe fancy foot work.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Yeah surprisingly when I went back out there and posted the one that I found on ebay it has similar specs to the one that major posted. Hmmm all of these motors are looking pretty good! Hooray! finally I have some direction! at least I think so


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> Well I will stop shaming myself on here now, at least I think so, with this motor: http://cgi.ebay.com/AMD-36v-36-Volt...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b12d21f9
> 
> Its a pretty commonly used one from Advanced DC Motors and looks in great condition. I might try and make an offer for a little less than the seller is wanting for it but I am not sure how well that will go considering that some sites I have seen this same motor for sale for at least a $200 premium so I'm not sure if I will be successful with that endeavour but I am going to try. Does this make up for the other terrible suggestions major?


Looks cool  I also like that SepEx D&D Jim found. Might get one of those for my own collection


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

major said:


> Looks cool  I also like that SepEx D&D Jim found. Might get one of those for my own collection


 
I might get one of those at that price point and a motor that looks that nice I don't think that you could go wrong!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> I might get one of those at that price point and a motor that looks that nice I don't think that you could go wrong!


Remember what I said. That motor is a SepEx and requires a special controller. This controller may not be available, hence the cheap price. Or the controller may be outrageously expensive.

I gather you can sometimes work around not having that controller, but it requires special knowledge.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Very true Jim thanks. I will do a little research on it and see what is available thanks.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

So I have been doing a little poking and haven't found a lot of information on the D&D SepEx motor and what controller would work for it. The only thing I have found was over on the EV trading post which was some guy selling a kit that included this same motor and an Alltrax DCX controller. Now comes the question, aren't the Alltrax DCX controllers primarily used for shunt wound motors?

EDIT well according to Alltrax site their DCX series controllers are for SepEx motors so at least I have a lead on where to find them. However, the controllers that I have seen so far are pretty expensive units so that is probably a really good reason for the low price of the motor.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

procupine14 said:


> So I have been doing a little poking and haven't found a lot of information on the D&D SepEx motor and what controller would work for it. The only thing I have found was over on the EV trading post which was some guy selling a kit that included this same motor and an Alltrax DCX controller. Now comes the question, aren't the Alltrax DCX controllers primarily used for shunt wound motors?
> 
> EDIT well according to Alltrax site their DCX series controllers are for SepEx motors so at least I have a lead on where to find them. However, the controllers that I have seen so far are pretty expensive units so that is probably a really good reason for the low price of the motor.



Found a used DCX300 on ebay for $270.00. Just search Alltrax DCX


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> Found a used DCX300 on ebay for $270.00. Just search Alltrax DCX


followed your reccomendation and saw that one. It looks nice and is a fraction of the cost of a new one that is for sure


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

This stuff is so additive! I am fighting with everything in me to not click that "Buy it Now" button! I need another motor like I need a hole in my head, but that's a nice little motor for a great price! The only thing is you may want to call EV Drives or someone and make sure the controller can be programmed for that exact model.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> This stuff is so additive! I am fighting with everything in me to not click that "Buy it Now" button! I need another motor like I need a hole in my head, but that's a nice little motor for a great price! The only thing is you may want to call EV Drives or someone and make sure the controller can be programmed for that exact model.


thanks I will give them a call when I get home from work. Also, I can get that exact same model of controller from EV Drives cheaper than I can on eBay so I might pick up a used DCX300 IQ from them instead  happy days!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

procupine14 said:


> thanks I will give them a call when I get home from work. Also, I can get that exact same model of controller from EV Drives cheaper than I can on eBay so I might pick up a used DCX300 IQ from them instead  happy days!


Please post the info here for any addicts that might have be hovering over the Buy it Now button. They just have to have 14 of them!


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> Please post the info here for any addicts that might have be hovering over the Buy it Now button. They just have to have 14 of them!


hhahaha yeah only! lol alright here's the link to the motor. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...68673&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1584wt_1165 now guys the object of the game here is to at least leave me one to use 


and here is the link for the controller that apparently will work with the motor http://evdrives.com/alltrax_dcx300_iq.html technically most of these DCX series controllers should work with the motor but I just went the cheapest route. Always room for upgrading later!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I would still suggest calling to be certain. This comes from my experience/frustration with finding out my big GE is a SepEx motor, and then finding out how difficult it can be to get one running. I noticed that the Model # is different than the ones on the EV Drives site. Could be nothing - could be a totally different field map. It's _possible_ that the lack of field map information is the reason the motors are selling so cheap. Something you can work around, but also something that can be very frustrating.

All this is probably the only reason I haven't purchased one yet. If it was a series motor...


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> I would still suggest calling to be certain...


I just talked to Carl at EV Drives. He's looking to see if he has a field map for this motor and is supposed to call me back. I told him there might be a few people interested in a controller if he can program them.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> I just talked to Carl at EV Drives. He's looking to see if he has a field map for this motor and is supposed to call me back. I told him there might be a few people interested in a controller if he can program them.


 
Oh wow you are on top of the game!  That's awesome! Hopefully this will be a working combination and I can start spending money some time next week once pay day comes (which is tomorrow )


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

All systems go! Carl even checked with D&D, to be 100% certain. Alltrax DCX-DCS 300 or 400 amps, abuck per amp. . You can pick programming for speed or torque. He said it wouldn't take any extra time to program and ship.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> All systems go! Carl even checked with D&D, to be 100% certain. Alltrax DCX-DCS 300 or 400 amps, abuck per amp. . You can pick programming for speed or torque. He said it wouldn't take any extra time to program and ship.


 
that is AWESOME! I will be contacting them very soon then


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> All systems go! Carl even checked with D&D, to be 100% certain. Alltrax DCX-DCS 300 or 400 amps, abuck per amp. . You can pick programming for speed or torque. He said it wouldn't take any extra time to program and ship.


Toddshotrods,

Thanks for putting the extra effort in.

I was going to email D&D myself tonight to see if they had the field mapping and how much they would charge to map a controller (they sell Alltrax also).

This gives me some options. I want to use the motor on a belt drive 3 blade mower deck that will have it's own batteries. 

I will push or pull it with my EV converted Cub Cadet tractor.

I wanted sepex or PM so their was no runaway problem if the belt broke. I bought the motor and one of his battery chargers (he has a new 110 volt and some 240 volt A/C 72 volt DC 25 amp chargers for $50.00 ) Since the control board was removed it is now just a plain vanilla charger, just perfect for my 72 volt pulling tractor.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> Toddshotrods,
> 
> I wanted sepex or PM so their was no runaway problem if the belt broke. I bought the motor and one of his battery chargers (he has a new 110 volt and some 240 volt A/C 72 volt DC 25 amp chargers for $50.00 ) Since the control board was removed it is now just a plain vanilla charger, just perfect for my 72 volt pulling tractor.


 
Looks like EV drives is the way to go if you are trying to get some things together on a budget. I think that is who I will be ordering most of my stuff through.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Glad I could help guys. This forum has given me so much; I just try to give back a little when I can. This just seemed too good to let sneak by. Of course, there's a problem with an addict helping other addicts get their "fix" - my finger is still hovering over that darn Buy it Now button!!! 

I have a question about this motor. What is it's potential? Compared to something like an Etek motor, or the popular 6.7" motors, where is it? I really just want one, and I'm trying to figure out if I can actually do something with it.

I tried to find some info on it, but didn't find anything. It seems to be comparable to this cart motor, but with a drive end cap, bearing, and keyed shaft.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I tried to find some info on it, but didn't find anything. It seems to be comparable to this cart motor, but with a drive end cap, bearing, and keyed shaft.


That is pretty much the same as the motor I am using on my tractor, I think.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> That is pretty much the same as the motor I am using on my tractor, I think.


Woody is your motor a sepex?

I seem to remember yours being a series wound golf cart motor these are separtly excited (shunt?) wound. 

I think about the same size and power though.


Jim


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That is pretty much the same as the motor I am using on my tractor, I think.


Looks similar as far as size. Yours appears to be a series motor, and this one is SepEx. Your tractor motor and my bike motor are probably pretty close (as you pointed out before). I'm just curious about whether these D&D SepEx motors have similar capabilities, less, more?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahh, yes.

I've been stuck on dial up so have been trying to read posts quickly and only half loaded before the screen froze.

Yes, mine is series.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I bought one!  I took a little time to grill myself about why I was buying it, and what I intended to do with it. When I was certain that it actually fit into my plans, without an emotional shoehorn, I clicked the button.

Procupine did you buy one?


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I bought one!  I took a little time to grill myself about why I was buying it, and what I intended to do with it. When I was certain that it actually fit into my plans, without an emotional shoehorn, I clicked the button.
> 
> Procupine did you buy one?


Todd,

I sure hope Procupine did buy one. This motor and controller are propbably 60% of anything comparable.

You bought one, wonderful. How are you planing to use yours? I covered what I want to do with mine a few posts back. are you buying the programmed DCX series?

I still don't know if I will get the programmed DCX or go with a variable pot on the field and just a contactor for the armature. Then fine tune the speed/torque with the pot. 

Mine is supposed to show up on Tuesday along with the 72 volt charger I will use on the 72 volt pulling tractor. Much better then the 6 individual charger I've been using.

I want to check with major to see what he thinks. If he downchecks my idea I'll go ahead and get the DCX. Might even try to find one of those tow behind finish mowers with a bad engine instead of the old shaft drive to belt 3 blade mower I have here. that will give me more room for batteries.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Hey Jim, I'm putting it in another street rod project. This one is really just a semi-functional display vehicle, but I guess it could qualify as a neighborhood-style EV. It'll be land speed racer themed, but slow as molasses in January, and should be *well* under a thousand pounds. I'm going to shoot for as close to 500 as possible, but's that would mean lithium. I figured this little motor should have enough guts to at least move it around at events. Luckily for me, land speed racers are notoriously slow off the line, because of high speed gearing, so I won't be expected to put on any smoke-filled displays of manhood with this car! 

I plan to use the 400 amp DCX. I want to play around with regen, and I like the electronic reverse. I only have to have a row of toggle switches on the dash, a steering wheel, and two pedals to make it all work. 

The small motor allows me even more freedom in design. I am going to bolt it directly on top of the rear end and drive the pinion with pulleys and a belt. That makes the whole thing like a big crazy quick change because I can change the ratio from outside the rear end! 

Sorry to hijack your thread Procupine. You found a motor for yourself and some others along the way - just sharing the joy!


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread Procupine. You found a motor for yourself and some others along the way - just sharing the joy!


Hey no worries with thread jacking here! I have been out and about for a few days and just got back. I will be getting one of these gems for sure and using it for my project. I haven't bought it yet but I will be purchasing one within the next couple days.  the first component is decided! I have a message in to the seller of the motors because his ebay ad ended but it says that he only sold 10 and has 12 available so I sent him a message and am waiting on his response. I didn't think that 10 motors would disappear that quickly but I was very wrong hahaha. I was out for a few days and just wasn't here to buy one at the time. Sort of a kick myself scenario for not purchasing one before I left but hey live and learn.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Alright folks. Since I didn't end up getting that D&D motor I have regrouped and found another motor on ebay. I am unsure of the full on specs of it but I am sure that someone on here will be able to give me a bit more information (eh em....major  ) and perhaps I can get this same motor in my link here on ebay for a lot less money. 

http://www.evparts.com/prod-MT2112.htm


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

procupine14 said:


> Alright folks. Since I didn't end up getting that D&D motor...


The auction was over but he still had eleven of them left. You should message him and ask about buying one.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> The auction was over but he still had eleven of them left. You should message him and ask about buying one.


Yeah I have been trying. I have sent three messages so far but to no response. I will wait a few days and check back in with the seller and see. But so far no response


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

procupine14 said:


> Yeah I have been trying. I have sent three messages so far but to no response. I will wait a few days and check back in with the seller and see. But so far no response


Interesting. I still have the listing in my watched folder, I'll keep an eye out to see if he relists them. He may have someone trying to strike a deal for the whole lot. Since they weren't selling very fast (which is odd at that price) a potential buyer could have asked him for a better bulk price at the end of the auction. I made up my mind in the last few minutes, while watching the CNC cut my motor mount!  Made the purchase on my cell phone - gotta love technology.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> Interesting. I still have the listing in my watched folder, I'll keep an eye out to see if he relists them. He may have someone trying to strike a deal for the whole lot. Since they weren't selling very fast (which is odd at that price) a potential buyer could have asked him for a better bulk price at the end of the auction. I made up my mind in the last few minutes, while watching the CNC cut my motor mount!  Made the purchase on my cell phone - gotta love technology.


 
Very nice! Yeah, I am still watching it as well. I just hope that he relists. Those motors are not cheap elsewhere and, quite frankly, I don't want to pay that much if I don't have to


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## DavidP (Jun 9, 2010)

Alot of good information on selecting EV motors ... 

I had a look at the 4HP-24V motors on ebay ... considering mounting a pair together through a center sprocket to get 8HP ... but they did seem kind of lightweight ... and the price and shipping were pretty high to Canada ... 

I eventually found a D&D 170-502-0001 on Kijiji ... 8.9HP running at either 36V or 48V ... slightly used in the origional box at $200.CAN ... with no taxes ... 

I was pretty happy when I saw them online listed for 515.US ... 
Seems the motor is pretty modern ... 04-2008 ... that uses a modern DCX controllers ... 

http://www.evdrives.com/dd_motors_170-502-0001.html

One big disadvantage will be having to make an adapter/end plate with bearing and work around the 19 tooth female spline though ...


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

DavidP said:


> I eventually found a D&D 170-502-0001 on Kijiji ... 8.9HP running at either 36V or 48V ... slightly used in the origional box at $200.CAN ... with no taxes ...
> 
> I was pretty happy when I saw them online listed for 515.US ...
> Seems the motor is pretty modern ... 04-2008 ... that uses a modern DCX controllers ...
> ...


Appears to be SepEx. Be prepared to get a SepEx controller for it and tune it.


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## DavidP (Jun 9, 2010)

major said:


> Appears to be SepEx. Be prepared to get a SepEx controller for it and tune it.


Yes ... I believe it is a SepEx motor ... 

I was only going by their recommendations on controllers directly below each motor when they say :-

Alltrax has come out with a new set of field maps for the DCX Controllers to maximize the performance of these motors. If you wish to use your current controller it needs to be updated to this new field map or it could cause failure to both the motor & controller. You are welcome to send your controller to us to be programmed for a fee of $15 to pay for shipping the controller back to you. 

Is there any additional information you feel we should be aware of when using this type of motor ?


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## RobSmith (Aug 13, 2010)

major said:


> Here ya go












Ah Ha!
I joined this forum to search for ways to convert my little lawn tractor to battery power. And there it is. I have the exact same tractor. Mine is painted white but just the same otherwise.
Rob


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## agniusm (Apr 30, 2012)

Ancient thread 
i too would like to do a lawn tractor conversion. The one i am looking into has 11hp engine and 26" blade. I would like to drive both, wheels and deck with same motor. I have couple motors i could use, PMG132 and LMC126 with Navitas TMC controller and 48V
Which would be a better motor if any and would 2kWh of battery be OK or not enough?
Thanks


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