# Planning Kymco MXU 250 conversion



## bagu (May 1, 2011)

Hi all, 

I'm new to the convertion and to this forum. I'm liking you well structure and huge knowledge base a lot!

I would like to build a tesla roadster like car, converting a Porsche 996/997 would be the ultimate goal. Unfortunately I'm living in Belgian and after checking and calling arround it seem virtually impossible to get a build homologated. So currently we are checking to find some loopholes or see if we could go through UK or other country to get homologation and afterwards try to import into Belgium. Anybody some ideas? 

Anyway, back to the topic, starting off with a urban quad to get some practice. It's a Kymco MXU 250 with:

*Dimensions*
Length (in) : 71.2
Width (in) : 41.3
Height (in) : 43.7
Wheelbase (in) : 46.6

*Weight*
Dry Weight (lbs) : 470

*Driveline*
Rear Unlocking Differential : No
Driveline Type : 4X2

*Transmission*
Reverse : Yes
Primary Drive (Rear Wheel) : Chain
Transmission Type : Continuously Variable (CVT)


My skill level with auto mechanics:
I have been working for 4 years in at GT3 racing team running Porsche 996, 997 Cup cars. So I do have some knowledge about mechanics and dynamics. I have a friend that owns a body shop and does conversion for handicapt people, a friend running a 6 axis CNC machine and a few friends specialized in car electronics.

The range for this Quad:
Bascialy about 50km should be good

Performance:
I'm hoping to get up to 80km/h, it currently has 18hp, I would like to get some more for a quicker acceleration ;-)
I'm not limited to a budged for this build but expect to spend something like 3-5k€

Currently I have not considerd any part for this tryout yet. Not sure if I have to go for AC or DC. I do guess I have to loose the CVT and could directly connect to the back axl, but might to need some other ratio or a engine with reduction mounted

Thanking you all for your comments and suggestions


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi,
because that's also my first post here, maybe I should introduce myself ;-):
My name is Tom, I'm from Europe, Gemany. I'm reading here for many month...

I'd like to do exactly the same. I'd like to convert a Quad just because I have not enough money for a real car. Unfortunately I only have done a lots of reading yet and no building because I have not the time at the moment.
So here is my "theoretical" suggestion:

Battery:
126 pieces of Headway 38120SE @ 21S6P. 
That gives you about 4kWh of energy with a weight of about 45kg. I guess that should be fine for 50km at a Speed of 60km/h. If you use a normal "60V charger" (73V end of charge voltage) with that 21S you get about 3,5V end of charge voltage per cell -> So maybe you could go without a BMS with good initial balanced Cells.
Maybe it will be a problem to fit so many cells in such a small Quad..

Controller:
Curtis 1205M-6B402.
The one hour rating of that 72V controller of 15A gives you 10kw of power what should be enough for the desired top speed of 80km/h. The peak of about 20kW (with voltage sag in mind) should also be good for a little acceleration.. All that numbers are only electrical power without losses of course.
That controller is fully programmable with RS232. On the web you could find instructions to do that without the expensive Curtis Programmer.

Motor:
Kostov ETH 4,1/4,8/29.
That's a 6.7" Series DC Motor with an weight of 30,5kg. It's a way to long to mount it for direct chain drive I think. But with your mechanical knowledge (and your friends CNC machine) you could make a gearbox so that you can mount the engine like this guy (he is also on this forum I think):
http://www.evalbum.com/3020

Prices:
Don't know if the Quad should be included in the 3-5k€. 
The advantage of the listed components above is that you could get all these components in Europe:
- Batteries: 2300€
- Controller: 550€
- Motor: don't know...maybe 300-500€?
So with charger and other parts you will have about 4-5k without Quad I think.

I didn't use all these components yet, so that's only a suggestion from me ;-).
The weight of about 214kg that you have posted is with a driver weight of 75kg I think?
I'm looking forward to other comments of users with more experience like me.

Tom


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Semper Vivus said:


> you could make a gearbox so that you can mount the engine like this guy (he is also on this forum I think):
> http://www.evalbum.com/3020


Yes. 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/suzuki-drz-sm-2005-electric-48239.html

Welcome to the forum guys and good luck.

If high power if not require, you can also check for pancake motor. They are shorter: 
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors.php
A good example: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50138


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## bagu (May 1, 2011)

Thanks for the input

Because picture say so much more , we went to get the quad this morning, still with the ICE 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

My next step would be removing the ICE and other components to check the space and weight. 

@Tom: Thanks for detailed specs of those components, you speak about them being available in Europe, what shop do you propose? Any feedback about a good online shop? (so far I have been looking at http://shop.electro-vehicles.eu/ )
The weight is unfortunately without driver, but with ICE so I'm hoping to get rid of a lot of that when removing engine, CVT transmission and other cumbustion related items.

@Yabert: Great idea on the pancake motor, I might be able to fit that directly onto the transmission chane, what would give me more room for batteries.

Also I've been reading more and more about homologation in Belgium.... unfortunately the more I read the more I get convinced it won't be possible at all to do a car and use it with plates in traffic  I'm trying to see if it would be possible using a kit car and having help from manufacturer but that also seems to get more and more difficult. If anybody has some ideas, backdoors, ...It seems if the car is homologated first in an other European country it might be easier to get it done in Belgium.

All of the above goes for the quad as well, but that one will be licensed as tractor for agriculture use and I'll be driving within 20km of the "farm" so that should work


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

here is a list of electric vehicles that are done in different countries.
you can scroll down to Belgium and find several of them....there is contact information listed so maybe you can try and ask owners how they made their vehicles legal to drive on the roads.

http://evalbum.com/geo


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi,
I will send you a PM according to the shops, because I don't know if I'm allowed to post links to shops here.

Very nice quad!
I hope you will document the building here. I would be also very interested in the weight of the Quad without motor, gearbox, gas...

Motor:
You can also use a shorter Series DC motor. For example the ADC A00-4009 like this guy:
http://www.evalbum.com/1174.html
But I don't know where you could get this here in Europe.
Pancake Motors would be lighter and shorter. But they are also more sensitive to overheating because of the permanent magnets.

Tom


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## bagu (May 1, 2011)

Hi all,



I got most of the ICE stuff out and put things on the scale:

Engine and gearbox: 53,1kg (117 pounds)
Radiator, fan and tubes: 6,2kg (13,7 pounds)
Exhaust pipe and damper: 4,9kg (10,8 pounds)
Fuel tank piping and some electric calbing 5,2 kg (11,7 pounds)
So starting from my curb weight of 226kg I'm now at 156,6 kg. So minus 14l of gasoline at about 9,8kg ==> I have a weight of 166,4kg (366 pounds) to start working with. 


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In regards to measurements, the transmission was about 30cm (11.8inch) wide and has a diamer of 17cm (6,7inch). So that would be the measurements I could use for an engine directly connected to the chain. My calculations show that with the current ratio, using the same chain and wheels I would need about 1800 rev to get to 90km/h. I'll have to do more calculations in details now.



Any addtional info about European shops would be great. I was thinking of using a US shop and have it shipped over but unfortunatley we do live in a country that always finds ways to pay taxes etc:

Pay US sales price / shipping cost
At Belgian border: pay TVA 21%
At Belgian border: pay Import taxes 18%
For delivery: pay cost of the custome clearance 2%
And all of those are cumulative, so would prefer to find some good online shops in part of the EU. 

@efan: Thanks for the information, I looked at all of the submission, most of them are vehicles from a vendor that makes ready to use EV's (like Tesla) homologated. I found 2 guys that did a project back in 2005 and will be contacting them for some more info.


Bart


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

It looks like a fun project.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Nice work!

Removing 174 lbs of ICE stuff is just perfect. The quad can will be bellow the original weight after the conversion.

The gear ratio is always the problem with direct drive motorcycle (or quad). You will need around 4:1 to 5:1 ratio. So you can put a monster sprocket at the rear and a extra small one in front.... but it isn't my suggestion.
You can build a gearbox (like my motorcycle) or do some reduction with belt or sprocket.

About mesurement, a small dc serie motor (like D&D ES-15-6) is 315mm long and 170mm diameter.
But, are you able to put a motor just in front of the rear shock (where I presume air filter was)?


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