# 1st build



## Senoritoriver (Apr 6, 2012)

Hi this is my first post on this forum. I'm 15 years old and have recently taken an interest in EV cars. I have been looking into building an EV car as a summer project. Heres what i need:


capable of 45+ mph
40+ miles range
under $2500
I have all the tools and mechanical help necessary. I was just wondering if this was possible within the price range, and if so, how i should start. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Not likely, the main issues being the range and your budget. A good battery pack will cost at least $100/mile of range.


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Not likely, the main issues being the range and your budget. A good battery pack will cost at least $100/mile of range.


Highway range that is. Also that's for a non-aerodynamic car.

I'd say $4000 in CALB 100Ah cells would get you about 60-80 mile range depending on the vehicle aerodynamics and speed at 100% discharge, and you want to stay above 20% remaining.

What chassis were you looking at?


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## FireCrow (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm afraid I'll have to agree with guys here... At this budget you could try a bike, but car with that specs is very unlikely...


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Does your budget include the donor car, or not?


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## Senoritoriver (Apr 6, 2012)

sorry for the wait. after some research i see that the car idea could be too expensive. So now its down to either a motorcycle or a bike. I think just a simple bicycle would be cheap and a good introduction to electric power. Im just curious, could i run A123 battery packs to power a 48volt motor?


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't see why not.

(fwiw - I agree, your budget for the original idea was too low. My desired specs were roughly the same, but I wanted to be able to go 60+mph, not just 45+ ... my coversion cost around 15-19k, depending on how you account for it.)


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

somanywelps said:


> Highway range that is. Also that's for a non-aerodynamic car.
> 
> I'd say $4000 in CALB 100Ah cells would get you about 60-80 mile range depending on the vehicle aerodynamics and speed at 100% discharge, and you want to stay above 20% remaining.
> 
> What chassis were you looking at?


i don't see how that could work. $4000 of calb's gets you 32 100ah cells, or 10240kWh (and that's not including connectors or shipping). Even assuming 100% DOD, you'd be looking at 170Wh/mi to reach 60 miles. In the real world of 300Wh/mi and 80% DOD, you are looking at an acutal range of 27 miles.

Sorry for the reality check.


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## Chad (Aug 1, 2008)

dladd said:


> Sorry for the reality check.


Darn that reality, get's me every time too.


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## Senoritoriver (Apr 6, 2012)

It seems like it would be difficult getting a good range out of a bike. theres a very small amount of space to work with


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Small space, but very small power requirements as well. 2-300 total lbs vs 2-3000. Plus you can help out as well.


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## Senoritoriver (Apr 6, 2012)

I like the A123 cells but it seems like they would be difficult to charge. on top of that, theres no way to tell how much charge is left in them. I was also looking at this http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/48v-1000w-motor-controller-throttle-kit.html It seems like since a123 have such a strange voltage i would have to run a little under 48 volts (46.2 volt if using 14x3.3 volts) of power


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

Senoritoriver said:


> It seems like it would be difficult getting a good range out of a bike. theres a very small amount of space to work with


I tried it with 12 ahrs of lead at 48 volts and I had to get a special kick stand to keep the bike from falling over.LOL

Then I got hooked on Lithium, and 16 Headway cells really made it feel light. Also I could pack them in the triangle and the balance was better. I had a lot of fun zipping around my small California beach town. I never really tested the limits of distance because my EV grin was so strong I found this forum and decided to do a VW build. You are young and a bike or small motorcycle build is within your budget and you will learn valuable lessons for your lifetime and next project.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Senoritoriver said:


> It seems like since a123 have such a strange voltage i would have to run a little under 48 volts (46.2 volt if using 14x3.3 volts) of power


Continous to learn...

Generally speaking, 48v systems composed of 4 12v lead acid battery is compare with 16 lifepo4 cells (a123). 3.3v x 16 = 52.8v, but you don't need to care because 4 12v battery after full charge are generally at over 57v (4 x 14.4v)


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## Senoritoriver (Apr 6, 2012)

so i found a motor kit that is front wheel drive. im thinking that will allow me to still use the standard bike gearing system to pedal


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Senor,

If you are interested in a bike build check http://endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php?sid=f118e9ce37923b3b7ce2e570468844ae 

If you want to do a motorcycle check ElMoto.net. . I couldn't get the url. You wil have to google it.

One thing about electric tho, if you want noise you will have to get it from your ipod.

Chuck


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## FireCrow (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi there! I'm considering a bicycle build as well, just depends if this years budget will allow me (read: if wife will let me spend money on it...). I've found a kit, from China... I know, China... Anyway, it looks like it doesn't have batteries, but has pretty much everything else...
Here's the link -> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270955282188#ht_3395wt_1189
What do you guys think about it? I checked feedback, so far there was only one negative from some Russian, about a year ago...


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

FireCrow said:


> Here's the link -> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270955282188#ht_3395wt_1189
> What do you guys think about it? I checked feedback, so far there was only one negative from some Russian, about a year ago...


Run it by the people at Endless Sphere. A lot more experience with this kind of build.


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## Senoritoriver (Apr 6, 2012)

The problem with the hub motors is the gearing system is designed for a low top speed of around 20mph. That's why i went back to the scooter motor. Any ideas on how many amp hours at 48 volts?


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

Senoritoriver said:


> The problem with the hub motors is the gearing system is designed for a low top speed of around 20mph. That's why i went back to the scooter motor. Any ideas on how many amp hours at 48 volts?


I ran 48 volts and hit 35 mph on the flats. I used a cycle analyst to limit the amp draw to 20 amps. Endless Sphere is a great resource for a bike build.


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