# Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Thanks Roland
I have trouble with the terminology so I am adding these defs I found, pls
let me know
if I am off here - 

flange - a rib or rim for strength, guiding, or attachment of one object to
another
bushing - A metal, and sometimes nylon, "donut" that supports a rotating
shaft (ie. an axle). 
crank - axle coming from motor that eventually turns the wheels




> Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> > There are two ways to make a coupler for a motor,
> > 1. Have a machine
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Hello Jeremy,

The taper lock that comes with the motor unit should be ok. I have that 
same type of motor coupler made by Electro Automotive for a Warp 9 motor 
which works good.

It may be best to have the flywheel re drill to fit this coupler and have it 
center. Again have the flywheel position on this coupler for the best fit 
and than have it mark for assembly to that same reference every time or have 
a guild pin install so the flywheel can only go on one way.

This transmission in the pics. is not a transmission that uses a flywheel. 
A manual transmission shaft that goes through the clutch plate and flywheel 
is call a transmission pilot shaft.

There is a brass bushing that is sometimes press in the hole in the center 
of the crank shaft flange or in some cases, the bushing is install in the 
motor shaft where the transmission pilot shaft goes all the way through the 
motor coupler. The crank shaft flange or motor coupler is the unit that 
bolts to the flywheel.

This flange coupler must fit tight into the recess in the back of the 
flywheel. Some crank flanges have a guild pins that fits tight and centers 
the flywheel. The bolt holes in the flywheel normally have clearance, but 
the guild pin about a press fit.

When you have this unit made up, it is best for you to take the everything 
to a machine shop, so the machinist can fit everything correctly together 
for you.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeremy.rutman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler


>
> Thanks Roland
> I have trouble with the terminology so I am adding these defs I found, pls
> let me know
> if I am off here -
>
> flange - a rib or rim for strength, guiding, or attachment of one object 
> to
> another
> bushing - A metal, and sometimes nylon, "donut" that supports a rotating
> shaft (ie. an axle).
> crank - axle coming from motor that eventually turns the wheels
>
>


> > Roland Wiench wrote:
> > >
> > > There are two ways to make a coupler for a motor,
> > > 1. Have a machine
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Making an adapter from the taperlock hub to the flywheel seems like a waste=
d step. Why not just use a taperlock with holes drilled and tapped to matc=
h the bolt pattern on the flywheel? That is the way that mine goes togethe=
r. It might take a little work to find or make the correct one, but certai=
nly no more work than the coupler. I purchased mine directly from Electro =
Automotive and they already had it setup to fit my flywheel perfectly. If =
you want to see how to modify one yourself check out Steve Clunn's Video wh=
ich can be ordered from http://www.grassrootsev.com/viddescrip.htm.

damon

> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 04:51:30 -0800
> From: [email protected]il
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler
>
>
> Hi
> I am trying to plan a coupler and adaptor for my solectria ac42 to a suzu=
ki
> alto
> flywheel/clutch/gear.
>
> 1st step - coupler
> The flywheel has six 10mm holes in it which is where the ICE connected up.
> So it looks like I have to make a part with six corresponding spokes to f=
it
> it .
> [that is, if I dont want to slice the part off the ICE ]
> Or can one buy such a part? I havent seen any for sale yet but on the oth=
er
> hand dont know what its called.
>
> Anyway once I obtain such a part I was thinking to bolt it onto the
> taperlock that came with the motor, with six bolts.
> Does this seems reasonable? Pics are at
> http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch
> http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch
> which btw is there for anybody to use.
>
> Maybe I should make hexagonal depressions in the coupler so the bolt head=
is
> flush and also
> cant rotate? Would lockwashers or high-torque tightening be enough? Maybe=
I
> should get bolts of opposite
> handedness from that of the normal 'forward' rotation direction of the
> motor, like wheel bolts are done afaik ?
>
> and finally
> for some reason if i post from gmail my messages get ignored, not if i po=
st
> from nabble
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/adaptor-coupler-tp157=
87473p15787473.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Na=
bble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Jeremy,
Take a look at this page.
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml

It has a good picture of how they built an adapter. I have used one of
these on a VW golf and it works very well. They do list one or 2 for a
Suzuki. Not sure if they have the same bolt setup as yours.
Kyle





> jeremy.rutman wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > I am trying to plan a coupler and adaptor for my solectria ac42 to a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Using a taperlock mounted directly on a motor like a Warp 9 which was made =

by Electro Automotive work fine when it was install, but it push the =

transmission back another inch and I had to shorten up the drive line and =

push back the transmission cross member.

I could not push my motor ahead, because of the engine cross member and the =

electric clutch assembly that is use to drive the REGEN inverter-alternator =

mounting assembly.

This would be ok for some installations where the motor could be push ahead=
. =

The Electro Automotive taperlock coupler, did not allow for the transmissio=
n =

pilot shaft to go all the way threw the coupler and into the motor shaft.

I want to be able to replace the Warp 9 with the GE-11 as a spare while one =

is in maintenance and be able to do the swap in a day using the same =

transmission locations and motor mounting locations without any major =

modifications, so I had the large flange motor couplers made up to fit =

either motor.

The stock taperlock couplers do not have a flywheel centering nose extensio=
n =

on it for centering the flywheel wheel to the motor. There is too much slo=
p =

in the bolt holes to get in with 0.001 inch in alignment. I had to have a =

machine shop install a alignment pin in the Electro Automotive coupler to =

get it center.

Also the stock taperlock couplers were either too large diameter to fit =

threw the GE motor bell end which has a recess hole in it for a GE coupler =

that came with the motor. I had to have a coupler that was not more than =

2.5 inches in diameter at the motor end and had to be exactly 4.25 inches i=
n =

diameter at the flywheel end, so it would press fit into the flywheel. It =

also had to have a extended nose that is 2.5 inches in diameter and .5 inch =

deep for inserting into the flywheel.

So it depends if you are trying to fit something in the exact original =

location, which requires to customize a unit.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "damon henry" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler



Making an adapter from the taperlock hub to the flywheel seems like a waste=
d =

step. Why not just use a taperlock with holes drilled and tapped to match =

the bolt pattern on the flywheel? That is the way that mine goes together. =

It might take a little work to find or make the correct one, but certainly =

no more work than the coupler. I purchased mine directly from Electro =

Automotive and they already had it setup to fit my flywheel perfectly. If =

you want to see how to modify one yourself check out Steve Clunn's Video =

which can be ordered from http://www.grassrootsev.com/viddescrip.htm.

damon

> Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 04:51:30 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler
>
>
> Hi
> I am trying to plan a coupler and adaptor for my solectria ac42 to a =

> suzuki
> alto
> flywheel/clutch/gear.
>
> 1st step - coupler
> The flywheel has six 10mm holes in it which is where the ICE connected up.
> So it looks like I have to make a part with six corresponding spokes to =

> fit
> it .
> [that is, if I dont want to slice the part off the ICE ]
> Or can one buy such a part? I havent seen any for sale yet but on the =

> other
> hand dont know what its called.
>
> Anyway once I obtain such a part I was thinking to bolt it onto the
> taperlock that came with the motor, with six bolts.
> Does this seems reasonable? Pics are at
> http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch
> http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch
> which btw is there for anybody to use.
>
> Maybe I should make hexagonal depressions in the coupler so the bolt head =

> is
> flush and also
> cant rotate? Would lockwashers or high-torque tightening be enough? Maybe =

> I
> should get bolts of opposite
> handedness from that of the normal 'forward' rotation direction of the
> motor, like wheel bolts are done afaik ?
>
> and finally
> for some reason if i post from gmail my messages get ignored, not if i =

> post
> from nabble
>
> --
> View this message in context: =

> http://www.nabble.com/adaptor-coupler-tp15787473p15787473.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at =

> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur =

"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

I follow u and would do as suggested but the bolt-holes in the flywheel
[actually these are untapped and afaik actually 'pin'-holes] allow no
clearance for the motor shaft .
(holes are 10mm diameter, 45mm from center to center of opposing holes. 
motor shaft is 36mm diameter. min distance between bolt/pin edges would
thus be 45-10=35, just less than the motor shaft. 
And I suppose I need some extra clearance for bolt heads. In principle I
guess I could shave down
the motor shaft but am loath to do so). Pic at
http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch.

So I remain with the question if its possible to get a decent solution using
bolts and a custom 
adaptor or part hacked off an existing ICE. I don't see any other way
actually other than 
modifying the flywheel as Roland suggested, but this seems as much work or
more. Roland seems to say theres too much slop using bolts. The motor
shaft has a centered hole in it, maybe I need to use
this to center the shaft that the flywheel sits on?

Another issue: I am not sure how to remove the current hub that's mounted on
the motor shaft 
[to drill further holes]. It doesnt seem to have the half-tapped holes that
a taperlock has as far as I understand from reading up on them.
It has 3 tapped holes and 3 untapped, putting in a bolt and applying
pressure didn't seem
to do much but I didnt apply too much pressure for fear of busting
something.

BTW the cad drawings at I took some pics and put them up at
http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch
are on a grid of 1mm minor gridlines and 10mm major gridlines.




> damon henry wrote:
> >
> >
> > Making an adapter from the taperlock hub to the flywheel seems like a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*



> jeremy.rutman wrote:
> 
> >
> > I follow u and would do as suggested but the bolt-holes in the flywheel
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Hello Jeremy,

To remove a taper lock bushing from the coupler, remove the three tap set 
screw bolts and install one or if there is three, all three in the other un 
tap hole. The un tap hole has no threads on the coupler body, but has 
threads on the taper lock.

Inserting the screws in these holes and tighten even across a little at a 
time. What this does, is that the bolts pushes against the coupler body and 
pushes out the taper lock bushing.

Use about 120 inch lbs maximum on these bolts which is the same as 10 ft 
lbs. Tighten the bolts in a increment of 2 ft lbs each until you get to 10 
ft lbs. If it does not pop, which may sound like a load crack, then apply 
some penetrating oil in the taper lock bushing split. I use a penetrating 
catalyst call PB which seems to work the best.

Let the coupler set for a hour or so and then try another 2 ft lbs to each 
screw. It will and should exploded off for you.

I had the same problem in try to fit a standard taper lock bushing set to my 
existing GE motor motor shaft which is recess in the motor face which is 
also the built in transmission adapter.

It was either the taper locks were too large diameter and the set screws 
were in the way of the flywheel bolt pattern which was use prior to the 
1980's. The later flywheels have a smaller bolt circle and that what I had 
to use to fit the Electro Automotive motor coupler.

The Electro Automotive taper lock coupler has six set screw in a tight 
smaller circle, so there is no large center hole for the transmission pilot 
shaft to go through and insert in to that machine hole that is in the end of 
the motor shaft.

To remove this type of Electro Automotive taper lock coupler, you loosen up 
the screws a bit, do the heads of the bolts are just above the surface of 
the taper lock bushing and tap them evenly with a block against all these 
bolt heads. This pushes the taper lock bushing in which is install in the 
reverse pattern of a standard unit.

It is not a good ideal using just the bolts of a fly wheel with out any 
guild pins. Look at you engine crank and see if it uses a guild pin or if 
the diameter of the flange fits tight in a recess of the flywheel. If it 
does, than this is what you size the coupler to.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeremy.rutman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler


>
> I follow u and would do as suggested but the bolt-holes in the flywheel
> [actually these are untapped and afaik actually 'pin'-holes] allow no
> clearance for the motor shaft .
> (holes are 10mm diameter, 45mm from center to center of opposing holes.
> motor shaft is 36mm diameter. min distance between bolt/pin edges would
> thus be 45-10=35, just less than the motor shaft.
> And I suppose I need some extra clearance for bolt heads. In principle I
> guess I could shave down
> the motor shaft but am loath to do so). Pic at
> http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch.
>
> So I remain with the question if its possible to get a decent solution 
> using
> bolts and a custom
> adaptor or part hacked off an existing ICE. I don't see any other way
> actually other than
> modifying the flywheel as Roland suggested, but this seems as much work or
> more. Roland seems to say theres too much slop using bolts. The motor
> shaft has a centered hole in it, maybe I need to use
> this to center the shaft that the flywheel sits on?
>
> Another issue: I am not sure how to remove the current hub that's mounted 
> on
> the motor shaft
> [to drill further holes]. It doesnt seem to have the half-tapped holes 
> that
> a taperlock has as far as I understand from reading up on them.
> It has 3 tapped holes and 3 untapped, putting in a bolt and applying
> pressure didn't seem
> to do much but I didnt apply too much pressure for fear of busting
> something.
>
> BTW the cad drawings at I took some pics and put them up at
> http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch
> are on a grid of 1mm minor gridlines and 10mm major gridlines.
>
>


> > damon henry wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Making an adapter from the taperlock hub to the flywheel seems like a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

I forgot about the weld on taper-lock weld-on hubs or even a straight-bore 
taper-lock adapter that will bolt into a straight bore hole in the flywheel.

The existing hole in the flywheel is bore out and center to fit the taper 
lock adapter and then is key to lock on the adapter.

The weld on taper-lock hubs come in different diameters and widths that 
allow for center mounting or offset mounting of the adapter to either side 
of the flywheel.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Weathers" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler


>
>


> jeremy.rutman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I follow u and would do as suggested but the bolt-holes in the flywheel
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*



> Doug Weathers wrote:
> >
> >
> > Perhaps the "untapped" holes are actually tapped at the bottom? That's
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*



> jeremy.rutman wrote:
> 
> > is it inadvisable to just dunk the taperlock in liquid nitrogen to
> > free it?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

Get the bolts and use what was designed to work. As long as it's not 
rusted it should be pretty easy.

: )





> Doug Weathers wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Mar 5, 2008, at 3:51 PM, jeremy.rutman wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] adaptor/coupler*

thanks gang that did it, taperlock came off much easier than i expected
i;ll check out my donor car's input shaft tomorrow in Ein Hod and
see if i can figure out a coupler 




> gottdi wrote:
> >
> > Get the bolts and use what was designed to work. As long as it's not
> > rusted it should be pretty easy.
> ...


----------

