# [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> brucedp <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Nismo didn=92t tweak the car=92s electric drivetrain, which is the same
> > as that found in a standard Leaf. Still , the electric car is no
> > slouch, accelerating to 60 mph in less than seven seconds.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Perhaps they started at the top of a hill 
damon
> How did they reduce the 0-60 time from just under 10 seconds to under
> 7 seconds without either a serious bump in power or a serious
> reduction in weight? Something does not add up here.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> _______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I want this done to my Leaf. Not to find out where. By they way, the 0 to 60
time is just around 7 seconds. It is a quick little car. The 10 second time
is more like if you are in eco mode. In power mode which I drive all the
time, it is one quick puppy. I have even smoked rubber off the tires. 

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-For-Green-Hot-Rodders-A-Souped-Up-Nissan-Leaf-EV-tp4176230p4179049.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> "gottdi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I want this done to my Leaf. Not to find out where. By they way, the 0 to
> 60
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I wonder if there is some form of traction control that gets switched off.
That and the low profile tires should help get there.


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Rees
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> "gottdi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I want this done to my Leaf. Not to find out where. By they way, the 0 to
> 60
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not sure about traction control, but the stock Leaf definitely has a
more-or-less linear current ramp-up. That is, if you put the pedal all the
way down, the power to the motor (per their energy usage display) takes 2-3
seconds to go from 0kw to 8kw. Reprogramming that limit would definitely
allow burning rubber.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mark Grasser
Sent: 15 December, 2011 10:11 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV

I wonder if there is some form of traction control that gets switched off.
That and the low profile tires should help get there.


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Rees
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> "gottdi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I want this done to my Leaf. Not to find out where. By they way, the 0
> > to
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm not sure about traction control, but the stock Leaf definitely has a
> > more-or-less linear current ramp-up. That is, if you put the pedal all=
> the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"...to avoid undue load on the power inverter / motor which limits
torque..."

Maybe, but it behaves the same even if you go up a steep hill. I think they
are just trying to reduce liability in case someone loses control while
shooting out from a full stop. I can easily imagine someone trying to blame
Nissan for their own overexuberance.

Sure wish they would allow a little accel, though.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Rees
Sent: 15 December, 2011 11:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm not sure about traction control, but the stock Leaf definitely has =
> 
> > a more-or-less linear current ramp-up. That is, if you put the pedal =
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 15 Dec 2011 at 11:40, David Rees wrote:
> 
> > Might be a problem fitting 15" wheels around the stock brakes, though,
> > they're pretty beefy!
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The regen is pretty lame. If you brake gently, it engages. Otherwise it
cuts out and the brakes take over. I live on a steep hill and usually have
to brake to hard to use regen going down.

Peri 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: 15 December, 2011 8:45 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> On 15 Dec 2011 at 11:40, David Rees wrote:
> 
> > Might be a problem fitting 15" wheels around the stock brakes, though,
> > they're pretty beefy!
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One can dis-able traction control via press of a button on the Leaf.
Just allows the controller to ignore wheel slippage with heavy acceleration 
demands.
I did not notice a speed improvement myself.

Danny 



________________________________
From: Mark Grasser <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, December 15, 2011 10:11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV

I wonder if there is some form of traction control that gets switched off.
That and the low profile tires should help get there.


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Rees
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> "gottdi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I want this done to my Leaf. Not to find out where. By they way, the 0 to
> 60
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 15 Dec 2011 at 20:55, Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > The regen is pretty lame. If you brake gently, it engages. Otherwise it cuts
> > out and the brakes take over.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > On 15 Dec 2011 at 20:55, Peri Hartman wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh, they did blend it seemlessly. You can barely feel the difference. In
that respect, it's fantastic. My point is that the regen cuts out too
easily. That is, if you brake hard, there's almost no regen (according to
the gages). Perhaps they had some engineering challanges to ensure that the
friction brakes would not be intefered by regen in a panic stop.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: 15 December, 2011 11:42 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> On 15 Dec 2011 at 20:55, Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > The regen is pretty lame. If you brake gently, it engages. Otherwise
> > it cuts out and the brakes take over.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What you say, Ed, is true for me as well. Do you have experience driving at
25-30 with lots of stop-and-go? And, down hills? I find that under 30mph
the regen is not strong enough to slow you down at a stop light. And down a
hill more than say, 10%, you have to use friction brakes (and the regen cuts
out). To me, this is disappointing (and with heat, defrost, wipers, lights
on, I only get about 50 miles per charge).

Peri 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Ed Blackmond
Sent: 16 December, 2011 8:59 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV



> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > On 15 Dec 2011 at 20:55, Peri Hartman wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 15 Dec 2011 at 11:40, David Rees wrote:
> >> Might be a problem fitting 15" wheels around the stock brakes, though,
> >> they're pretty beefy!
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't have any experience on hills with the Leaf. On residential 
streets, with stop signs, the friction brakes are required, but not 
very much. On 45mph streets with traffic signals, the friction brakes 
are also required to keep from annoying other drivers.

According to the display, the regen gets weaker as the car slows 
down. This happens if my foot is on the brake pedal or not. If my 
foot is off the brake pedal, regen gets stronger again when the brake 
pedal is pressed, but begins getting weaker again as the car continues 
to slow.

Stronger regen would allow single pedal driving in all normal 
situations except coming to a complete stop.

Ed


> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > What you say, Ed, is true for me as well. Do you have experience
> > driving at
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In risk of beating this subject to death...

I'm probably misusing the word "stronger". That's true, "stronger" regen
would allow a lot more single pedal driving. However, the case I'm trying
to describe is where pressing the brake appears to reduce the amount of
regen. Of course, part of that might be that as the rate of deceleration
decreases, there's less energy to recoup. However, I'm certain that when
going downhill, there's plenty to recoup. Yet, the gage shows that very
little regen happens. Why?

I'd sure like an answer from Nissan. And, beyond that, what would it take
to get them to tweak the parameters to use the friction brakes more
sparingly? 

For all of you who have programmed regen in your own conversions, how does
it behave in conjunction with friction brakes? Can you have strong regen
active while braking and still not lock the wheels in an emergency? How do
(or would) you handle the transition of cutting out the regen (to prevent a
skid) and compensating with more friction brake in virtually the same
instant?

Peri


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Ed Blackmond
Sent: 16 December, 2011 7:59 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf EV

I don't have any experience on hills with the Leaf. On residential streets,
with stop signs, the friction brakes are required, but not very much. On
45mph streets with traffic signals, the friction brakes are also required to
keep from annoying other drivers.

According to the display, the regen gets weaker as the car slows down. This
happens if my foot is on the brake pedal or not. If my foot is off the
brake pedal, regen gets stronger again when the brake pedal is pressed, but
begins getting weaker again as the car continues to slow.

Stronger regen would allow single pedal driving in all normal situations
except coming to a complete stop.

Ed


> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > What you say, Ed, is true for me as well. Do you have experience
> > driving at 25-30 with lots of stop-and-go? And, down hills? I find
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Peri,

Many AC systems have equally capability to e-brake (decelerate)
as to accelerate (they just reverse the direction of energy).
In the US Electricar they retained the automatic gear selector.
The selections D, 2 and 1 all were the same with regards to
acceleration, but each lower gear was programmed with a more 
aggressive regeneration.
The US Electricar had two potboxes, one on the accelerator and
one on the brake pedal.
As soon as the accelerator was let up enough, some regen braking
was standard enabled (though this could be disabled by programming
the controller to coast by setting regen current to zero, it also
differed for the 3 gear settings)
when the brake pedal was depressed, the same happened as in the
Prius: initially pure regen braking happened (up to the max
that the batteries could take or the max limit programmed) and
this could result in axle-crunching deceleration force if it was
programmed agressively, since you could go all the way up to the
200A battery limit of the controller, resulting in more than
70kW of deceleration.
When the brake pedal was pushed more than about halfway, gradually
the friction brakes added their bit while the regen stayed at the
programmed max.

I am not sure if many AC vehicles have an active anti-lock brake
but I know for a fact that the Prius has and that includes both
the friction and electric brake. (The friction brake is actually
electrically operated on a Prius, that is why it has a backup
capacitor to allow some brake action after the battery dies)
so the friction brake is electrically modulated in situations
where the wheel spin differs between wheels (not caused by a turn).
The regenerative brake will also be reduced as soon as wheel slip
is found.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Peri Hartman
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:54 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf
EV

In risk of beating this subject to death...

I'm probably misusing the word "stronger". That's true, "stronger"
regen would allow a lot more single pedal driving. However, the case
I'm trying to describe is where pressing the brake appears to reduce the
amount of regen. Of course, part of that might be that as the rate of
deceleration decreases, there's less energy to recoup. However, I'm
certain that when going downhill, there's plenty to recoup. Yet, the
gage shows that very little regen happens. Why?

I'd sure like an answer from Nissan. And, beyond that, what would it
take to get them to tweak the parameters to use the friction brakes more
sparingly? 

For all of you who have programmed regen in your own conversions, how
does it behave in conjunction with friction brakes? Can you have strong
regen active while braking and still not lock the wheels in an
emergency? How do (or would) you handle the transition of cutting out
the regen (to prevent a
skid) and compensating with more friction brake in virtually the same
instant?

Peri


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Ed Blackmond
Sent: 16 December, 2011 7:59 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: For Green Hot-Rodders: A Souped-Up Nissan Leaf
EV

I don't have any experience on hills with the Leaf. On residential
streets, with stop signs, the friction brakes are required, but not very
much. On 45mph streets with traffic signals, the friction brakes are
also required to keep from annoying other drivers.

According to the display, the regen gets weaker as the car slows down.
This happens if my foot is on the brake pedal or not. If my foot is off
the brake pedal, regen gets stronger again when the brake pedal is
pressed, but begins getting weaker again as the car continues to slow.

Stronger regen would allow single pedal driving in all normal situations
except coming to a complete stop.

Ed


> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > What you say, Ed, is true for me as well. Do you have experience
> > driving at 25-30 with lots of stop-and-go? And, down hills? I find
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When I did the ride and drives at EVS-20 (Long Beach, CA, November 
15-19, 2003), Tom Gage of then AC Propulsion had their VW pih out on 
the test track. They were touting their drop in pih unit and the VW 
was the donor vehicle they used.

Here is an image
http://www.herecomesmongo.com/evs20/Main%20Article/Pictures/ACP%20VW%20PIHEV%20hybrid%202.jpg
and here is the presentation Tom was using at EAA meetings
http://www.becketts.ws/eaa/eaasv-forms/eaasv031905-gage.pdf

IMO a most interesting and creative feature was a small slider on the
shifter base (the plastic part that is usually mounted on the hump 
between the front passenger and the driver that displays what gear 
you are in).

This slider would allow you to adjust on the fly the amount of regen:
from nil to maximum. The maximum was so aggressive when you let your
foot off the accelerator quickly, everyone in the pih would lurch 
forward (like as if you stomped on the brakes). Tom kept it set to 
the middle point to give an ice riding experience (where the ice 
slows the vehicle like a friction brake).

Having an S-10 Blazer DC conversion EV with no regen at the time, I 
could see a lot of uses for that slider. Not only to almost never use 
the friction brakes when driving on the highway or expressways, but I 
could envision setting it to aggressive regen when driving up in our 
mountains. That would be a safer driving experience than pumping and 
wearing out the friction brakes. Plus the 5 to 8% back into the pack
would also be a good thing.

It is too bad we, the drivers, do not have a way to program these 
vehicle's driving experience, customizing it to the way we want. I 
suppose Automakers would not want that because they would fear they
would get sued. But, I bet you there is a way to trick out these 
post-2010 Production EVs/pih to what we want.

Who knows, we could have better performance, better range, longer 
brake life, etc.



{brucedp.150m.com}





-


> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > ...
> > Many AC systems have equally capability to e-brake (decelerate)
> > as to accelerate (they just reverse the direction of energy).
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm probably misusing the word "stronger". That's true, "stronger" reg=
> en
> > would allow a lot more single pedal driving. However, the case I'm try=
> ...


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