# Building the EMW SmartCharge-10000



## Jordysport (Mar 22, 2009)

skooler said:


> Hi All,
> 
> The idea of this thread is to document the build of a watercooled EMW SmartCharge-10000 version 9 as found below. Its meant as a kind of guideline of what to expect. I will fill it with pictures and descriptions as the build progresses
> 
> ...


Hi Mike, 
Glad you got it Ok, Sorry It took so long, but was hanging fire for those Dashboard case covers. I'm sure i checked the second set of covers they sent, fitted ok but i haven't screwed it all up. I didn't get any wires with the built charger either, and its all exposed so i've got to make a separate enclosure for it!!.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Jordysport said:


> Hi Mike,
> Glad you got it Ok, Sorry It took so long, but was hanging fire for those Dashboard case covers. I'm sure i checked the second set of covers they sent, fitted ok but i haven't screwed it all up. I didn't get any wires with the built charger either, and its all exposed so i've got to make a separate enclosure for it!!.


Hi Jordy,
Its not your place to check everything!

To make it clear to anyone else reading this, myself and Jordy shared shipping costs and had a 2 person group buy!

Interesting on the cables. I meant the cables for inside the unit -i.e. to join the PCBs to the case. If something is advertised as a kit it should contain EVERYTHING unless it says clearly otherwise. 

I have an idea for my enclosure...

I still have the fuel tank which is effectively two seperate tanks, one under each rear seat.yu I was thinking of using the plastic welder I purchased for battery boxes to cut the tank in half and add a sheet on one side , then use grommets etc for cable entry and fit the charger inside under the rear seat. I can then add platforms and brackets on the inside.

It should make for a good watertight enclosure in an area that is currently empty and to shallow for batteries.

Does anyone know anything about J1772 on these units?

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

skooler said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I also purchased a half decent solder station:
> 
> ...


They're not bad setups - I've bought 3!
(two for work, one for me at home  )

If you're trying to solder a big mass like a large groundplane, you'll have
problems with it - it just doesn't have good enough heat transfer between
the heating element and the tip, but it's good for doing complex, dense pcbs.

Most awkward thing is trying to keep the tip clean - though that's not the iron's
fault, it's the bloomin' lead-free solder we all have to use now...

I agree with you about the missing bits in the kit being annoying - they should include everything. Good luck with it!


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I agree, if the kit say's it's complete it should have everything. The other issue is the kits are being put together from random parts. I've bought two kits and they are very different, some appear to be design changes, others are availability of random parts. And the parts you buy in the kit should fit properly (that's why you buy the kit instead of scrounging it up yourself).

I designed a kit for headphone amplifier that is 100% spelled out and clear, all parts fit properly, this is what I was hoping to receive, those who have also received a kit know it isn't even close. 
For reference my kit with build instructions, this is the level of clarity and detail that should be provided for something as complex as this charger:
http://rwaudio.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/RW-Audio-Amp1-DIY-Assembly-Guide-Rev.-1.0.pdf

I've contemplated approaching Valery and asking to take over the kitting for non US orders and source quality parts that fit the PCB's, design my own PCB's or at least request Valery make certain updates so things like the DC/DC converters and capacitors on the driver board fit properly. I think the problem is the design changes too quickly for anyone to keep up including Valery himself.


----------



## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

electricmini said:


> fault, it's the bloomin' lead-free solder we all have to use now...


eBay is your friend!

I agree Lead Free Solder is s***! But there are a number of vendors selling leaded solder. A couple of years ago, I bought enough for a lifetime of building stuff!

Si


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

rwaudio said:


> I agree, if the kit say's it's complete it should have everything... I think the problem is the design changes too quickly for anyone to keep up including Valery himself.


 You expect such things from a small startup that has more projects than resources - and this is a part time job for many of these guys I expect. Eventually though they should institute standard engineering practices like change control, PDR - which does not permit a product release without complete documentation including BOM checked against the beta and final release versions, revision numbers... I imagine like many of us they like to develop stuff, but not deal with the infrastructure/business practices stuff. Can't run a real business that way though. Someone needs to "own" the kits and ensure they are correct/complete, and well-documented. 'Course the price may increase in that case.


----------



## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

I also just bought the kit, however I went with the soldered board version. Just have to put the rest together. Haven't checked everything yet, I will report back.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi All,

I sorted out the components and worked out what was missing. The end result was spending £45 on components at maplin. Not complete by any means and I'm sure I'll have to buy more.

I will update this thread either today or tomorrow with build pictures and descriptions.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> You expect such things from a small startup that has more projects than resources - and this is a part time job for many of these guys I expect. Eventually though they should institute standard engineering practices like change control, PDR - which does not permit a product release without complete documentation including BOM checked against the beta and final release versions, revision numbers... I imagine like many of us they like to develop stuff, but not deal with the infrastructure/business practices stuff. Can't run a real business that way though. Someone needs to "own" the kits and ensure they are correct/complete, and well-documented. 'Course the price may increase in that case.


I believe I can make that comment and expect such things because I am in the same boat... a very small start up with more projects than resources and a day job.
I agree with you 100% though eventually EMW will have to change the strategy and provide a better kit, real documentation and an accurate BOM, or they just won't be taken seriously. I love the EMW stuff don't get me wrong, I'm using a 10kW charger and once I got it working I haven't had a single problem with it, I'm also building one for a friend as well as have the Deluxe EV Dashboard hardware. 

Given the random parts that go out in each kit it might be a good idea to take a photo or two of the parts you received (before assembly) skooler, then assisting in trouble shooting may be easier for both Valery and others who have completed this charger. (I'm not saying you will have problems, but many people have, due to the lack of documentation and ever changing design).

Good luck with the charger, it's a beast for a good price once you get it working.


----------



## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hmm... I think a request for the £45 you've had to spend to be refunded via paypal needs to go out to the EMW chaps. If actioned, it would show very good will to the rest of us who may be considering buying.. 

Such kits can be sent out without error even with limited recources, an example is the the Open Revolt kit supplied by Paul Holmes. I bought and built one last year, the kit was packaged with all the parts marked flawlessly, instructions were clear and comprehensive, EMW should take note..


----------



## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hi All,
> 
> The idea of this thread is to document the build of a watercooled EMW SmartCharge-10000 version 9 as found below. Its meant as a kind of guideline of what to expect. I will fill it with pictures and descriptions as the build progresses
> 
> ...


I think I may chime in with my order
When I received my kit, I had a long list of small, mainly trivial, pieces missing. A couple of transistors, resistors, small disk caps. It all added up to about $40 at radioshack, or $20 on eBay but with a 3 week wait. 
I messaged Valery about it and he ended up shipping all the components to me the next day. Although I would have rather received the parts the first time, Valery was very helpful with getting the parts to me quickly.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Update Time!

Its slow progress when half the parts are missing. The instructions are a bit on the brief side, I have been able to make sense of most it all so far but there is definitely scope for confusion!

I have also found that the variations in documentation for various versions very confusing.

First picture shows the parts as they arrived









First stage is to solder pins to the arduino board. I have fount that it is easiest to apply heat to the top of the pin (away from the board) and let the solder flow down to the joint as opposed to applying heat at the join.









Next stage is to populate the control board, this part of the instructions is relatively well written, its just a case of placing the components on the board (if they were supplied!) and soldering in place. I had several resistors, caps and transistors missing.

I have found that if the iron is applied to the joint for too long then the top layer (lacquer?) of the board will start to melt which makes soldering much more difficult. Moving the iron away from the joint and letting the solder flow down to the board seems to have solved this issue.










The part on mounting the screen either on or off the board is a tad confusing. I've missed that part out and am waiting on a response from Valery.

I then made a start on my case.

I plan on using the original fuel tank - It's a sealed container thats insulated and will fit an empty space perfectly!

So the first stage was to take a handsaw to it and cut it down to size. Originally it would sit under each of the rear seats with the propshaft and exhaust through the middle. It will then be sealed using a plastic welder and an offcut from the unused side to seal it once I am happy that the charger works reliably.










It has been sat for a year full of water so little fuel should have remained. to be sure, i gave it a bit of a clean with the hose pipe and then at home before drying it out on the living room rug!









Then its on to the power board, again, just a simple case of mounting components (mainly caps) and soldering them on. the instructions get progressively lazy through the document which makes finding the correct locations a little difficult. but its easy enough to work out using the schematic.










I changed to a larger tip as the components wick away the heat, again let the solder flow rather than heating the joint. The current sensor is particularly difficult to solder to the board as basically a slab of metal! my advice is just keep the solder flowing - see pic below










Then its onto the diode bridge board. its just 2 bridge rectifiers in parallel. it would appear that EMW have realised the board cannot handle the current so it is reinforced using 12 guage (2mm) bare copper wire soldered to the back of the board. I used heatshrink in case anything comes loose or gets bent.










Finally its onto the coldplate. The power board is used as a template to locate where holes need to be drilled, very clever! Just a case of marking up, making sure that the pipes wont be hit and then drilling with a pillar drill. The instructions say to tap the holes but I'm just going to use a nut, bolt and heatpaste. The excess thread on the bottom of the plate will then be used to mount it to the case.



















To be continued...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

favguy said:


> Hmm... I think a request for the £45 you've had to spend to be refunded via paypal needs to go out to the EMW chaps. If actioned, it would show very good will to the rest of us who may be considering buying..
> 
> Such kits can be sent out without error even with limited recources, an example is the the Open Revolt kit supplied by Paul Holmes. I bought and built one last year, the kit was packaged with all the parts marked flawlessly, instructions were clear and comprehensive, EMW should take note..


Hi Guys - sorry just read through this thread. 

Apologies for the issues. tomofreno nailed it pretty well - more projects than resources, small company, etc. 

That said, historically more than half of the 'missing items' issues reported are due to a misinterpretation of [admittedly still often confusing] instructions (PFC / non-PFC, version control for instructions, etc.). 

The other half we have taken some good effort to eliminate. As you can see from our assembly videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4VMwqMhT5o&list=PLCeBT-Kvbm5BqtummmHNN1CjhIOawmReq), we now pack all the contents into an organizer with packing lists etc. The mistakes still do happen, of course, but in *every case* that was reported to us we have sent the missing parts free of charge, mostly the next day or so. 

Abstracting from this specific issue, here's some background info on a project like this. It's a long but interesting read. You will see that these kit products can *never* be serious business. You will see that we are making zero money on this and the only meaningful outcomes for us are the satisfaction from helping hundreds of people go electric, and the design experience that we can apply to our other products.

1. I estimate that all the R&D and iterations of design to get where we are right now has cost us ~$20,000 in parts & equipment plus at least 1,000 man-hours of highly qualified labor (the kind that contracts out for $100+/hour). Parts bought but later not used due to design changes (or just simply blown up in the process ;-), test units that were built with limited functionality just to test some features and therefore are not sellable, test units that we blown up as we learned, PCBs that were ordered in bulk but not all used before the next revision had to go out, etc, etc. If it sounds somewhat wasteful, it is - this is what it takes to learn and iterate on the complex design. 

2. So maybe we can recoup it on selling to a huge market after we're done with R&D? Let's look at that. The EV Conversion market for a product like this is *maybe* 100 units a year. After all, it is the high-end of the power range and almost by definition is going to be sold to a minor part of the market. The rest will just buy $600 1.5kW Chinese chargers. So we could not just invest $20K + 1,000 hours into this upfront. We simply HAD to ship early designs, generate cash to put into the next quick iteration, rinse and repeat. No other way is viable with the level of investment like this and market that small. That's why there are no other open-source chargers out there. I am with you applauding Paul for his efforts on the ReVolt controller. But you can also read in his forums that he makes zero money from that. My guess is he is mistaken - most people forget to include all costs (like his hours that could have been spent on earning more, etc.). So most likely he is actually losing money on every kit he ships out.

3. Well, maybe we still can make money if we get a lot of profit on a per-unit basis? Let's see. Our total part costs for a non-PFC unit including shipping run ~$650. This is lower than it could have been because we sometimes substitute default BOM parts with compatible cheaper components that are available at the time (aka 'random parts' in one of the posts above). Note that if ordered in single-kit quantities, the above $650 would turn into ~$1,000-1,100. We order in 20-30 kit quantities at a time which helps us keep the cost down. Unfortunately, it also means that we are always sitting on as much as $18,000 worth of inventory. This is money at risk if more people decide to just take our open source design and build themselves from parts they get from random places (something that puzzles me every time - as these people end up spending more money on parts alone compared to what the kit costs and then they proceed to spend even more on waste parts as they iterate layouts etc. logic doesn't always work with everyone is my conclusion... of course there are legitimate cases - tax rates, design mods for 3-phase, etc). 

Once the parts are there, it takes ~3 hours of labor per shipment to process an order, put it all together, pack, and ship (custom-wound inductors don't help; this also includes time spent on bulk part sourcing including negotiations with suppliers). Call it another $100 in less qualified labor. Then on average we spend ~1-2 hours per kit on support (email only as we found phone support is both unsustainable and ineffective at the same time). This is average, of course, and we do have some remarkable outliers - e.g., a customer with support thread almost 200 emails long...). Call it another $100 in more qualified labor. So the total cost is ~$850. We sell it for $999. Paypal takes $40. 

So we make $110 on every non-PFC kit. This is 11% *gross* margin, before any fixed costs. Any business person will tell you that this is not really sustainable. Those of you good at math will also note that we'd need to sell way more kits than our entire EV Conversion market in order to recoup the R&D investment and justify inventory costs.

So yes, we manage this more as a customer-funded R&D program than a real product line. We then funnel the output of that R&D into our other products. Most directly into fully built units for this charger system, less directly into other [future] charging and motor control products. 

To make a more or less standalone business out of it, we would have to raise the price by ~$500 per kit. Sadly, I think this will result in such a unit sales reduction that we will actually draw in *less* revenue as a result. Therefore, it would not be a good move. 

The way I see it, we have created a new type of a product that you guys would not have otherwise. Without it, you'd still have to pay $3,500 for an analog 50A charger from people who tout an addition of a 3-digit display as a major design improvement worth mentioning in a national EAA publication ;-). We have opened all our designs so people could do whatever they want with them. If the issues like described in this thread (that are always immediately resolved by us when properly reported) become a threat to our reputation, a rational business decision would be to close this product line altogether. I would hate to do it, of course...

Anyway, we are super-passionate about DIY conversion community. It is one of the things out there that shows that not all of the humanity is on the path to degrading into a mere herd of iPod-crazy consumers spending 40 hours of their lives weekly in front of the TV (actual stats for an average American!). Check out the movie Idiocracy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808) for some additional inspiration ;-)

This passion makes us do things that are not rational from any business point of view - like opening a design that we invested $100,000 into and selling kits we don't make any money on. Take that into account in your next post on the subject ;-)

Sincerely, 
Valery.


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

You hit the Bulls eye Valery ;-)

Much gratitude to you and your "Team"

Sincerely,
2010 Ranger aka EV-EAST


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I agree. I am fortunate to be able to manufacture a product that costs me about $300 in parts, about $100 in labor, and I can sell for $3000-$4000. Even so, this has been after many years and thousands of hours of engineering, software, and testing, and it is a small niche market where I'm lucky to sell 10 pieces a year.

The usual formula for manufactured items is a sale price about three times the cost of materials, so 1/3 goes to labor, overhead, and ROI for development costs, and 1/3 net profit. It may be different for very high volume consumer items, and where competition can drive profit margins low.

I would suggest that something like the charger kit could be designed with various options and expansion capability, and have the possibility of ordering the bare board and some key components but give the DIYer a wide range of flexibility to use his/her own major parts (such as IGBTs, heat sinks, and enclosure).

It would be great if this basic design could be used for a wide variety of chargers and DC-DC converters. And perhaps it could be made modular so that you can connect multiple 1 kVA units in parallel and/or series to get higher power and be able to be configured for various battery configurations (including lead-acid and NiMH). I am thinking about making a 1 kVA DC-DC module that can work on a 12/24/36/48 VDC input and provide an output of 60/120/240 VDC for a VFD. But perhaps it could also accept 120/240 VAC input with PFC (or 100-300 VDC) and provide DC outputs (12/24 VDC or 100-300 VDC) for main battery pack charging or a DC-DC converter for the auxiliary battery.

I just think if this were designed properly, it could be manufactured and sold in larger quantities for lower cost, and the modularity will offer some degree of redundancy in case of failure of one or more modules. I'd be happy to help with such a project, bearing in mind that I am presently interested in a small utility EV like a tractor. And I have let my mind wander pretty far off topic here. I should put this idea into another thread.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I agree. I am fortunate to be able to manufacture a product that costs me about $300 in parts, about $100 in labor, and I can sell for $3000-$4000. Even so, this has been after many years and thousands of hours of engineering, software, and testing, and it is a small niche market where I'm lucky to sell 10 pieces a year.
> 
> The usual formula for manufactured items is a sale price about three times the cost of materials, so 1/3 goes to labor, overhead, and ROI for development costs, and 1/3 net profit. It may be different for very high volume consumer items, and where competition can drive profit margins low.
> 
> ...


Paul & Robin - why don't we talk offline about potentially working together on the next rev of this. We are now moving in exactly the direction you have described - a set of universal power processing modules that scale up to 100kW output power and arbitrary input / output voltages (AC or DC input).

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> You hit the Bulls eye Valery ;-)
> 
> Much gratitude to you and your "Team"
> 
> ...


Thanks Ranger. There is indeed a 'team' but would be awesome if it grows by a a couple... There's so many things we could do leveraging this design & our experience to date.


----------



## KUSAW (Jul 1, 2011)

Dear All,
I am Kukuh from Jakarta - Indonesia. I just bought the complete kit from Valery...
DR Val very helpfull...
thank you


----------

