# recommended manual cable crimpers?



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I just started making battery cables with a small hammer-crimper. It seems to work pretty well, but is a little slow to be sure everything is together and hold aligned for the first couple good whacks. I also am thinking that for my two long cables going through the conduit, it is going to be hard to crimp AFTER running cables because of lack of a solid surface 'in place'.

so..... I am wanting to know what good manual crimpers may be available that would be more like big bolt cutters that would not require whacking on a solid surface; and where to get'em?

I found some references to 'Greenlee' models k05-1gl and k111.... run about $200. Is it worth it? do they do a good job on 2/0 welding cable for battery lugs?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I'Greenlee' models k05-1gl and k111.... run about $200. Is it worth it? do they do a good job on 2/0 welding cable for battery lugs?


Hi Dan,

Those are too small for 2/0. See 

http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M37/460/TOOL FOR CRIMPABLE/ 

There is also #470, bench mountable version.

I used the 460 for a thousand or so big crimps. Builds upper body strength. Had to replace dies once. Not too bad a tool for the job. Beats the old hammer type hands down. But I eventually went to a hydraulic ram crimper. Nice, but $$$$$$

Regards,

major


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

major said:


> Hi Dan,
> 
> Those are too small for 2/0. See
> 
> http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M37/460/TOOL FOR CRIMPABLE/



great info, thanks!

Bench mount won't work for me in this case as what I think I am going to have to do for the two cables I am running from back to front (thru a 1-1/4" conduit) is install the lugs in place after pulling the cable thru the conduit. The problem is that in the engine bay, and in the rear rack area, I am concerned that I wouldn't have anything solid enough to rest the hammer crimper on without making big dents in something!

If I end up investing in this tool, maybe I'll have to take some orders for building custom cables for people.....


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

Well crap I didn't think about the long runs in the conduit. I too have the hammer crimper. I haven't hammered on it though, I'm just sticking it in the bench vice and that works quite well. Now I too have to figure out the best way to crimp those long runs. You can at least do one end outside the car. I do have an enormous pair of channel locks so maybe I'll take a bolt and cut it down short, then bring one end to a point like the tool. I can then try to put that between the lug and channel locks.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> Bench mount won't work for me in this case as what I think I am going to have to do for the two cables I am running from back to front (thru a 1-1/4" conduit) is install the lugs in place after pulling the cable thru the conduit.


 
Ever think about running the cables thru the conduit before you install the conduit into the vehicle? I've done it this way.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

bblocher said:


> Well crap I didn't think about the long runs in the conduit. ... sticking it in the bench vice and that works quite well.


huh. I tried my vise, and could not get a crimp started. I either have a wimpy vise, or different battery lugs! I have the tinned brass ones....



bblocher said:


> Now I too have to figure out the best way to crimp those long runs. You can at least do one end outside the car.


yes, and now that I am really looking at it.... one of my long cables is the 'most positive' which will go to the circuit breaker and does not have a lug, so that one will fit easy from back to front. The second cable is 'mid pack', but if I put on a flat end lug, it will fit and run from front to back, then I could put my 400a slow blow fuse, and a second section of cable to battery lug. So.... I guess no problem?! I CAN install lugs out of the car and run the small ends thru the conduit if I plan it right....


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

major said:


> Ever think about running the cables thru the conduit before you install the conduit into the vehicle? I've done it this way.


LOL, some solutions are so simple. I always over complicate.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

major said:


> Ever think about running the cables thru the conduit before you install the conduit into the vehicle? I've done it this way.


can't do it in this case because the conduit sections had to be glued together during install because of one 90' bend I could not install as one piece and wiggle it between suspension parts and up into the ngine bay. I am using rigid PVC, not liquitite. HHHmmm, I guess if I were planning ahead I could have dry fit the conduit, pre-installed the cable, removed and installed lugs, and THEN re-installed/glued the conduit.

BUT.... Conduit is already glued and bracketed in; hate to remove it and start over even though PVC is cheap. I think I am going to be ok pulling one back to front, and one front to back with the flat end...


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> huh. I tried my vise, and could not get a crimp started. I either have a wimpy vise, or different battery lugs! I have the tinned brass ones....


I have an "average" sized vice and my bench was lifting off the ground from all the torque I was putting on it. My hands hurt too but it still seemed better than me bashing everything around when I miss that stupid little tool


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## donmurray (Jan 21, 2009)

Someone needs to make a compact screw type crimper. Like a motorcycle chain riviting tool, except larger. A saddle to place the part to crimp, and a compression piece driven by a fine thread screw/bolt. The machined saddle part would have a handle that could receive a cheater bar, and the bolt would be screwed down with a long handle rachet wrench. You could apply a lot of pressure with a rig like that.

For a hammer crimper, could you mount a good vise on a board or a metal plate with handle. You could then position the vise where you need to do a crimp job and squeeze the hammer crimper with it. Might take more than two hands and a cheater bar on the vise.

New to this, so just asking. Are these crimped cable ends also soldered to improve the conduction? Is there a copper or other type of high strength soldering that would hold and make a better conductor without crimping? I can see that what ever is used would have to tolerate as much heat as the cable and end.


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

donmurray said:


> Someone needs to make a compact screw type crimper. Like a motorcycle chain riviting tool, except larger. A saddle to place the part to crimp, and a compression piece driven by a fine thread screw/bolt. The machined saddle part would have a handle that could receive a cheater bar, and the bolt would be screwed down with a long handle rachet wrench. You could apply a lot of pressure with a rig like that.
> 
> For a hammer crimper, could you mount a good vise on a board or a metal plate with handle. You could then position the vise where you need to do a crimp job and squeeze the hammer crimper with it. Might take more than two hands and a cheater bar on the vise.
> 
> New to this, so just asking. Are these crimped cable ends also soldered to improve the conduction? Is there a copper or other type of high strength soldering that would hold and make a better conductor without crimping? I can see that what ever is used would have to tolerate as much heat as the cable and end.


I have a chain breaker too, and was thinking the same thing as your design. Maybe there is one out there but it probably costs hundreds like the big hand crimper and for a few minutes of use it makes it hard to justify the cost. If I could get one for $40 or so then I'd jump on it.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

donmurray said:


> Someone needs to make a compact screw type crimper. Like a motorcycle chain riviting tool, except larger.


hhhmmm, certainly possible.... have to use a pretty big fine-thread grade-8 bolt and BIG cheater bars. probably easier to build a little enclosure for a small hydraulic jack to press on a cheap hammer-crimper as the die. Not exactly 'compact' though!




donmurray said:


> New to this, so just asking. Are these crimped cable ends also soldered to improve the conduction?


Instructions from KTA say NOT to tin or solder... properly crimped connections should not need it.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> one of my long cables is the 'most positive' which will go to the circuit breaker and does not have a lug, so that one will fit easy from back to front. The second cable is 'mid pack', but if I put on a flat end lug, it will fit and run from front to back, then I could put my 400a slow blow fuse, and a second section of cable to battery lug.


I just wanted to ask if it matters WHERE mid-pack the big ceramic fuse goes.... before I do it.  comments?


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

You're talking about a fuse for each seperate location for groups of cells right? You should keep each fuse as close to the group of cells as possible. You don't want there to be a chance of a short between the fuse and pack or you'll ruin the cells since it won't blow.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

bblocher said:


> You're talking about a fuse for each seperate location for groups of cells right? You should keep each fuse as close to the group of cells as possible. You don't want there to be a chance of a short between the fuse and pack or you'll ruin the cells since it won't blow.


well... not exactly, but I guess that's kinda the way it ends up since the engine bay batteries have multiple breakpoints.Having the big in-line 400 amp fuse in the rear rack would cover a short there as well as a short anywhere else during operation.... right?

d


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> well... not exactly, but I guess that's kinda the way it ends up since the engine bay batteries have multiple breakpoints.Having the big in-line 400 amp fuse in the rear rack would cover a short there as well as a short anywhere else during operation.... right?
> 
> d


Just looked up your blog and noticed you have a nice little diagram. Wish I planned that far out 

Looks like you have three groups of batteries. If you want to play it safe you would have three fuses, one coming off of each of the most negative terminal of the group. So for example your rear pack has six cells. Lets say your fuse is on the most negative terminal on the front pack(s) which is connected to your controller. If for some reason the positive and negative terminals of the rear pack were to short out the front fuse wouldn't blow and you'd ruin the rear six cells if they remained shorted for any length of time.

If you have great protection of the wires and are ok with not having this safety feature then just the one fuse will at least protect the pack as a whole. So, if it's possible, say the controller shorts out, the fuse would blow and the pack is fine.


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## kramer774 (Oct 7, 2008)

https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=27

Try this link. Shipping from Australia might be expensive but the exchange rate will help with the purchase price.

Wouldn't hurt to email him.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

kramer774 said:


> https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=27
> 
> Try this link. Shipping from Australia might be expensive but the exchange rate will help with the purchase price.


AU$89. Doesn't sound right. Don't know the exchange rate, but a set of dies will cost more than that is US$. Nice looking tool.

major


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

I went down to my local battery source store and talked them into letting me rent their crimper. They only had one and it was one of the nice long handle, $250 crimping tool. They are closed on Sunday, so I stopped by right before closing on Saturday and gave them a couple hundred bucks for a deposit and offered them $50 for renting the tool with the promise that I would have them back first thing Monday morning.

Fifty bucks was probably a bit high but I got all my cables crimped exactly the way I wanted them and it was very easy and they are very secure. Now, if I just have a one or two cables to crimp, I just get everything ready to crimp and go down there and they crimp them for free.

Steve


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

I found a used Thomas & Betts TBM5 manual crimper with multiple dies for $125 on eBay. It seems to do a pretty good job. It makes a diamond shape crimp cross section. 

A new TBM5 runs about $500.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

azdeltawye said:


> I found a used Thomas & Betts TBM5 manual crimper with multiple dies for $125 on eBay. It seems to do a pretty good job. It makes a diamond shape crimp cross section.
> 
> A new TBM5 runs about $500.


excellent, gives me hope... I will keep my eyes peeled for one of these, or a Waytek #460. I think I am going to be able to finish with my hammer crimper, but I may try to pick up a better one before starting the NEXT one!


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

This appears to be the exact crimper I rented from my local battery store.

http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php

$225 seems like a pretty good price to me.

Steve


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

notnull said:


> This appears to be the exact crimper I rented from my local battery store.
> 
> http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php
> 
> ...



looks good, BUT the detailed description says 'up to 6/0 wire'... so I am wondering if this will work for stranded 2/0 welding wire. ? sounds like not? oh, wait... for the /0 sizes, is the 6/0 fatter than the 2/0 ?


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

6/0 is bigger than 2/0, the crimper I linked to will work for you. It has jaws that rotate and you just pick the right settings. It is A-C for the 2/0 size lugs and terminals. The lugs and terminals you are using probably have A-C stamped on them somewhere. It makes a nice diamond crimp. 

My process was to open the crimping tool all the way with one of the handles resting on the ground and then insert the lug to be crimped and then I would start to close the crimper just enough to put some pressure on the lug. Then I would use my free hand to make sure I was pushing the cable into the lug with a good bit of force to get it fully seated and then just push down on the crimping tool to complete the crimp. I would then rotate the lug 90 degrees and hit it one more time. It was very quick and easy and I think the cable itself would break before you could pull the lug off the wire.

Steve


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

I've used both, and prefer the hex over the diamond. Just my $.02 worth.

major


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

major said:


> I've used both, and prefer the hex over the diamond. Just my $.02 worth.
> major


...and a recommended source for one with a hex die? whay do you like the hex better?

I am getting tired of the hammer-crimper really fast. I've completed a dozen cables now, but need to do about 6 or 10 more... and am ready to invest in the right tool for the next conversion!

I found a imperial 71548 hex crimper at https://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(oag3m03bz2v4ks24hqwbobvi)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=2147000969 ... but almost $270 versus the $225 for the diamond crimper in previous post.

and found a greenlee hex 332-k09-2gl for $229 at
http://www.kvmtools.us/product_info.php?products_id=4674


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

donmurray said:


> New to this, so just asking. Are these crimped cable ends also soldered to improve the conduction? Is there a copper or other type of high strength soldering that would hold and make a better conductor without crimping? I can see that what ever is used would have to tolerate as much heat as the cable and end.


I've seen a lot of people just pour solder into the end connectors and shove the wire in once it's hot enough (torch). Works just fine from my experience even with 4/0


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Technologic said:


> I've seen a lot of people just pour solder into the end connectors and shove the wire in once it's hot enough (torch). Works just fine from my experience even with 4/0


I really don't want to solder.... might be fine, but the majority seem to recommend crimping for the battery cables.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> ...and a recommended source for one with a hex die? whay do you like the hex better?


Hi dt,

You start with a round barrel and smash it down with the copper strands inside. Seems to me that the hex is a better shape inasmuch as the barrel does not have to deform as much as squishing it into a square or diamond shape. And the 6 corners of the hex are less stressed than the 4 on the diamond. And, when heat shrinking over the crimped barrel, the hex corners press on the insulation less. And to me, hex looks more professional, for what that is worth.

You know, this whole crimp deal is a little fuzzy. I have crimped thousands of large lugs. From 8 AWG to 4/0. Mostly #4 and 1/0. But have used a lot of different cable and different lugs and battery clamps and splices. And unless you buy from a single source and brand name, the fit and function of the dies vary all over the place. This is due to the cable and mostly from the varying wall thickness of the lug barrel. I've even broken dies when I used what I thought the proper size. So, whatever you get, plan on doing a "test" crimp first. Pull test and even saw it in half to be positive you have the right combination of wire, lug and tool.

As bad as all that sounds, it is a far cry better than soldering. My first several hundred 1/0 and 2/0 lugs, I soldered. I'll never go back. The solder wicks up the cable and makes it stiff. Some codes require strain reliefs for soldered lugs because the stiff cable can fatigue and fail. Also, the solder flux wicks up under the cable insulation and corrodes. Plus, it is messy process.

Again, my $.02 worth. Well, maybe $.09.

major


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

major said:


> ...Seems to me that the hex is a better shape inasmuch as the barrel does not have to deform as much as squishing it into a square or diamond shape. And the 6 corners of the hex are less stressed than the 4 on the diamond. ... whatever you get, plan on doing a "test" crimp first. Pull test and even saw it in half to be positive you have the right combination of wire, lug and tool.
> 
> As bad as all that sounds, it is a far cry better than soldering.
> major



SOLD....
I usually listen to the voice of experience.  I ordered a Greenlee Hex today for $229,plus $11 shipping.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2009)

Just wanted to say that by the time you receive your brand new crimper you could have finished your other crimping with a manual crimper and saved a bunch of money. The manual hammer crimper is good and produces a very good crimp. In the case of a few crimps that need to be done in the car can be done if you get a heavy metal item like an old flywheel that can be placed just about anywhere and use that for the crimp base. My cable was done out side the car with the cable in the tube. The place where the cable/housing moved through the firewall was large enough to pass the manual crimp end. No problem. Actually my crimped end without the heat shrink actually fit in the cable housing. I only needed to install the heat shrink after I strung the cable into the housing. So you may get your manual crimp through the housing without the heat shrink in place. Try it. I could not see purchasing a crimper like that unless I am building lots of EV's. If I end up building many of these cars I will invest in a faster system but I found that the hammer crimper is not actually that slow. I made a bunch real fast and all were good an so far so good. 

Pete




dtbaker said:


> SOLD....
> I usually listen to the voice of experience.  I ordered a Greenlee Hex today for $229,plus $11 shipping.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Just wanted to say that by the time you receive your brand new crimper you could have finished your other crimping with a manual crimper and saved a bunch of money.


yeah.... but I like new tools!

The hammer-crimper does seem to work pretty well and with a little practice it only takes 10-15 minutes to create a two ended cable complete with shrink and covers, but I am still a little nervous that I may have to install the ends on my two cables that go through conduit AFTER pulling them; which would be hard with hammer crimper, but easy with the 26" manual. I have a section of old railroad rail that I could balance in the engine bay for a backstop, but the thought of trying to hold the cable, lug, crimper, rail and beating it with a hammer in the engine bay is not a good image.

Besides, I plan to build more EVs!

[/quote]


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2009)

String your cable first. Then install the conduit. You need to string the conduit anyway and you can install and make your ends while the conduit is straight and then install it. The conduit with the cable installed should be easy to install. Did you see my set up? 15 minutes for two ends and shrinkwrap? Boy that is slow. Gather your stuff and you can do about 8 cables in 15 minutes. Many are going to be real short anyway and it is easy. Watch my crimp flick. Make a cable end and fit it into your conduit without the shrinkwrap installed. You may be surprised. Do you have your conduit? 

http://inertext.homeunix.com/electricvw




dtbaker said:


> yeah.... but I like new tools!
> 
> The hammer-crimper does seem to work pretty well and with a little practice it only takes 10-15 minutes to create a two ended cable complete with shrink and covers, but I am still a little nervous that I may have to install the ends on my two cables that go through conduit AFTER pulling them; which would be hard with hammer crimper, but easy with the 26" manual. I have a section of old railroad rail that I could balance in the engine bay for a backstop, but the thought of trying to hold the cable, lug, crimper, rail and beating it with a hammer in the engine bay is not a good image. Need more images or flicks? I can take some if needed. I can get a closeup of my conduit too.
> 
> Besides, I plan to build more EVs!


[/quote]


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

gottdi said:


> String your cable first. Then install the conduit.


next time.... to late for that as I have the conduit in and all glued together.




gottdi said:


> Did you see my set up? 15 minutes for two ends and shrinkwrap? Boy that is slow.


I will watch your clip... my time is including measuring, shrinkwrap, and installation. I tend to just be doing one or two at a time, which isn't the most efficient.




gottdi said:


> Make a cable end and fit it into your conduit without the shrinkwrap installed. You may be surprised. Do you have your conduit?


the shrink will fit but not a battery lug and cover and the cover can't really go on afterwards without splitting and hose clamping, and I may be able to pull it off if i pull the cable with a flat lug in one direction and use it to my big fuse rather than a battery terminal lug.


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Check with your local electrical supply house. Here in Columbus, In. the local A-B distributor has hand cable crimpers available for loan.
tommyt


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I've seen some people take a set of bolt cutters and cut a socket in half and weld each half to the jaws on the cutters. I'll probably try the same thing at some point, looks simple and cheap.


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