# And so it begins.....



## Qer (May 7, 2008)

It seems you've got it covered, really. Good to have mechanical guys around, I believe that part will be the tricky one when I start. I'm more into short circuits than engine replacements even though I can MIG-veld if I have to. 

Don't forget to document carefully! Please?


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

> Keeping the manual transmission and clutch.


I seriously advise you to reconsider keeping the clutch, read as much as you can on the subject before you make final decision. I went clutchless on Miata and loving it. 2 things that helped my decision:

1. Weight of flywheel, especially the power it takes to spin it up from dead stop.

2. Additional complexity of motor coupler and room it takes under the hood. I actually cut off the pilot shaft from tranny as advised by EV America's coupler design, and saved 2 inches of spacers. If I kept flywheel, my motor would be 3-4 inches further away from tranny and I would not be able to put batteries in front of it. 

Obviously your choice of donor will drive these decisions, but I just want to give friendly advise from someone who just finished the conversion and had to make same decisions you are making today.

Hope this helps.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Hey I appreciate the feedback. Do you find you shift the gears much or just leave it in one?

I had contemplated going direct drive with a high ratio diff. I really was excited to go that way as I could shove the motor under the trans tunnel and shorten/eliminate the driveshaft. I changed my mind after some comunication with the owner of the white zombie which is direct drive. His daily driver EV the blue meanie retains the clutch and trans.

Obviously the more info and opinions I can get the better. I agree the rotating mass is a big drawback. I'm considering perhaps a racing clutch or atleast a aluminum flywheel.

Shame I can't just go to the local EV dealer and try both options 



dimitri said:


> I seriously advise you to reconsider keeping the clutch, read as much as you can on the subject before you make final decision. I went clutchless on Miata and loving it. 2 things that helped my decision:
> 
> 1. Weight of flywheel, especially the power it takes to spin it up from dead stop.
> 
> ...


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

I start in 2nd gear, then shift to 3rd at 40 mph. Pretty much all my road driving is in 3rd, going back to 2nd at stops and slow traffic. Shifting is very easy, just pause for a second to let syncros do their job, then gently push into next gear. Works fine, no grinding or anything.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Great start though


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

xrotaryguy said:


> Great start though


Ok well here it is:


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Not much to show at the moment . Just have the longest lead time item on order.

Well after careful consideration I believe I made my decision on the clutch vs clutchless. Though I believe the clutchless would work it all came down to this.......My wife. She will be driving the car as well. Her daily driver is a manual and if she is switching back and forth between the electric and she gets used to shifting with no clutch and goes back to her manual trans ICE powered car... I think you know where I am going with this.


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## ragee (May 25, 2008)

LOL,

Thats the reason I went without the clutch. It is my EV. LOL. But you are right if you sharing the car. You can shift an ICE without one too but I wouldnt recommend it like I do with my EV but because I did do it that way I got 6 batts up front with my system battery.

ragee


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> Her daily driver is a manual and if she is switching back and forth between the electric and she gets used to shifting with no clutch and goes back to her manual trans ICE powered car... I think you know where I am going with this.


Two words: Automatic transmission.


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## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

That project sounds exciting.

You had better start looking for that MR2 power steering pump now! They are getting hard to find, and there isn't a wrecking yard in North America that doesn't know what they are at this point, between the EV people and the drag racers. Some of them charge accordingly. None of the major auto parts stores can get rebuilds for them since they all sold without cores, and now they are on a repair basis only.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Thaniel said:


> Ok well here it is:


Haha. You're a good sport.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Qer said:


> Two words: Automatic transmission.


Gave up trying to get my wife to drive auto's years ago. She hates them. 

Originally I was planning on making the EV for me to drive to work but looking at the amount of miles and lengths my wife drives we'd probably be better served by her driving it. She could run in the morning charge it and run again in the evening. (she puts on more miles than I do running errands and kids). So it has to be wife friendly 



kittydog42 said:


> That project sounds exciting.
> 
> You had better start looking for that MR2 power steering pump now! They are getting hard to find, and there isn't a wrecking yard in North America that doesn't know what they are at this point, between the EV people and the drag racers. Some of them charge accordingly. None of the major auto parts stores can get rebuilds for them since they all sold without cores, and now they are on a repair basis only.


We are on the same page. I bought one today. From a 2001 MR2 which from what I understand is less used by people for swaps. Cheaper and more available at the moment. Since I'm collecting parts and waiting for the zilla I have plenty of time to sort out the differences with the different style pump.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Well a little new news on the EV front. My powersteering pump arrived. Here's a picture for those that need a visual fix.


















The other big news is I ordered my motor today. Went with the WarP 9" as previously outlined. Been shoping for cars too. I really don't need the car until I get all the parts collected but if the perfect one was to pop up....

I've been looking at batteries. I'm thinking I need about 1,000 amp hrs worth. Does that sound about right? I've tried the ev calculators but I don't feel confident I the answers I've gotten.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

I got notification that the motor will ship sometime in early October. Glad I'm not in a hurry because the controller will take even longer. 

Sadly I haven't even heard as much as boo from Cafe electric on a projected date. From what I gather from everyone else I should be expecting just in time for christmas


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Been awhile so time for an update. While waiting for the long lead time EV parts (controller and motor) I have been shoping for a donor car. Just about bought one last weekend. After realizing the only thing I needed it for was to remove the engine and make the motor adapter I choose to just buy a transmision instead. This way I don't have another whole car hanging about the place for months while I just wait for parts. Of course if the right donor car pops up I'll grab it but until then I have something to work with.

So with that in mind I started working on a adapter to adapt the WarP 9 motor to the BMW flywheel. First thing I found was the JPG drawing of the warp 9 is pretty much illegible from the netgain site. Oh well I could make out what I needed.

I'm plaining to make the adapter out of a sprocket with the ID bore and Keyway dimensions required to fit the motor. Will save on some machining. I sketched it up on paper but would rather have a cad drawing. I downloaded a free copy of Alibre Design. Seems to work pretty nice. So I downloaded the DXF of the warp 9 motor and found that the JPG version and is outdated. Hummm.... I converted the DXF to PDF and JPG much more legible than is what on the Netgain site. I tried to post but the files are just a bit to large.

I still need 2 dimensions to make my adapter correct. I need the ICE crankshaft to measure or get someone to measure for me. So I'm still working on that. Other than that I think I have the adatper design. After drawing it I decided to draw a rough model of the motor and the snapring and keyway I'll be using. A little more work on the adapter and I'll have to move to the adapter plate. I don't plan on making it in CAD unless I can get a model from someone but who knows. 

Pic of the trans









Screen shot of my 3D model of the adapter (green) on a mock up of the motor (grey) also notice the snapring and pilot bearing. It looks a little grainy after compression









Dimensional drawing











Thaniel


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## klsmith007 (Sep 15, 2008)

Too bad you don't live in the SoCal area. I've got a donor car for you... A '94 325i. The ICE has got problems and the transmission as well. Both of those items do you no good in this car (the trans is automatic)

Kevin

PS. If any one else in the SoCal area is looking for a donor BMW 325i, let me know.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Kevin,

I'm still looking for some parts for my 318 EV project, let me know if you start parting the car!

Ben


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## klsmith007 (Sep 15, 2008)

Ben,

I'm not a gearhead kind of guy, so parting it out isn't an option. Its the whole car and nothing but. I've got about a week or so (before the wife gets tired of it sitting in the driveway) and then its off to some local charity or I might try craigslist for a week or so.

Kevin


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Sorry to hijack your thread, Thaniel.

If you (and the car) were closer I'd be all over it!!!!!! Surely you could ship it across country for $300 



Ben


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread, Thaniel.
> 
> If you (and the car) were closer I'd be all over it!!!!!! Surely you could ship it across country for $300
> 
> ...


Not a problem. Yah being on the other side of the country does make things more difficult.

Hey klsmith007, if you want to sell it try www.bimmerforums.com Lots of guys looking for bimmers for projects. You might find someone local. Also a good place to buy parts.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

I've bought tons of parts over there for my car. I'm EVBIMMER 


Ben


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Monday the Warp 9 motor arrived. Today my aluminum flywheel arrived. Parts are starting to roll in 

Here is the motor as delivered infront of my V-8 powered  3 series.










Here is how it was packaged. Looked pretty safe and un harmed. Some initial inspection shows that someone at the factory ran a razer knife or something similar down the larger drive shaft like they were cutting a tag off it or something. Left a pretty good scratch but It can be buffed out.









No pic of the flywheel yet. Oh other news I did some reading in the archives of this forum and decided that a taper-lock hub is probably the way to go. So I have to redesign my flywheel to motor attachment. Back to the drawing board


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

It all gets busy now! So are you converting a different car or the V8 E36? Can never have to many 3 Series'!

Ben


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> It all gets busy now! So are you converting a different car or the V8 E36? Can never have to many 3 Series'!
> 
> Ben


I'll be converting a different car. I've yet to buy the donor but I have things to work on without it and the car I have is good for measurements. The v-8 3 series (357i) is gobs of fun but just can't pass the gas pumps  The 3 seriess good handling, light weight, rear drive, and 4 doors make it a good swap candidtate for lots of things.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Not to mention there are lots of them available for decent prices. I had a setback tonight and am pretty bummed so hurry up and get to it!!


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Great progress so far Thaniel, and I agree with your decision to go with the taperlock, that is the last place you want a failure and it's usually catostrophic. Also you may want to check the shaft for any runout on your "9" before you put it all together, just a suggestion as my "11" had 0.011" runout with no apparent damage.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Not to mention there are lots of them available for decent prices. I had a setback tonight and am pretty bummed so hurry up and get to it!!


Lots available? See any good ones let me know. There are NONE in my town. The last 3 series I had to go to martinsville to buy. Hard to snag a deal that way.



O'Zeeke said:


> Great progress so far Thaniel, and I agree with your decision to go with the taperlock, that is the last place you want a failure and it's usually catostrophic. Also you may want to check the shaft for any runout on your "9" before you put it all together, just a suggestion as my "11" had 0.011" runout with no apparent damage.


I've spent the last few evenings trying to work out which coupler to use and how to get the dimensions I need.

.011" runout from the factory??? That's not good. What'd you do?


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

I called Net Gain and explained the problem, the customer service guy gave me a FedEx pickup#,next day it was gone and 9 days later I had a new one waiting at the door, no problems whatsoever. He even called a week after that to see how the new one was. Excellent cust service.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

O'Zeeke said:


> Great progress so far Thaniel, and I agree with your decision to go with the taperlock, that is the last place you want a failure and it's usually catostrophic. Also you may want to check the shaft for any runout on your "9" before you put it all together, just a suggestion as my "11" had 0.011" runout with no apparent damage.


I checked runout today on the drive end of the motor. It was less than 0.0015" I don't see a max run out listed on their print but I believe that should be good. 

I also hooked it up to my battery charger and ran it for a few min. It was nice and quiet. Quite satisfying to see/hear it spinnig. While I was at it I stood it on end and set the trans on top of it to ensure I have my dimensions correct for my adapter plate thickness. Thick enough to keep the trans input shaft from bottoming out but not too thick to have it not engage the end of the motor shaft. Looks like 1.125 thick is going to work great.

Here is a pic of my measuring set up. 2 pieces of angle bolted to the motor then some spacers (happen to be sockets in my case) of the right length.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Here is my flywheel adapter redesigned to use a 1610 taper-lock and Modified Taperlock sprocket. I plan to install the taper lock with the setscrews facing the motor so the clutch pressure will press the adapter on tigher instead of trying to pull it off. The other big change is since the center of the sprocket is larger dia then the pilot of the flywheel I plan to use 2 dowels to locate the flywheel on the adapter. (one is in the flywheel from the factory. I'll have to add the other). I also plan to put a bushing/spacer between the motor and taperlock so the clutch force can push the assy forward.

Anyway I have attached a 3D screen shot and a drawing of the adapter for your review


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Well keeping things updated though I feel like I am talking to myself 

I picked up a chassis for the swap and at the same time got a ride in TelnetManta's EV saturday. 

Here's a pic of me pulling the BMW home with the land rover. Incidently I had just rebuilt the land rover's auto trans myself. After that experience I really have no interest of an auto trans in my EV....Or any other car for that matter.


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

HEY! That donor looks familiar!!!!

Glad you made it home without any major mishaps. I assure you that we are watching. I gotta say though, you should have that thing converted by the end of the week!!    


Ben


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Here's and update. Holidays and my online racing season have been keeping me busy. But above is a picture of the the taper lock sprocket and taperlock bushing I purchased to use in my flywheel adapter (finally got around to ordering). Also pictured is an aluminum plate I'll use for part of the motor spacer, a bronze bushing I'll use as the pilot bushing (have to alter the OD slightly) and some keystock.

Dropped the Taperlock off at the machinist today. Should be a week or so until I get that back. I'm anxious to bolt the flywheel to the motor.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

My Flywheel adapter and one AL plate came back from the machinist today. I love seeing the parts turn from Cad into Real life. The adapter looks like it will work out exactly as planned. I have bolted it to the flywheel and slide it onto the motor shaft. I'll check it to see if it turned out true and straight and then I can go on to making the transmission plate. Here ae a couple pics.

















http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1679&stc=1&d=1229739548


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

cool, I miss having access to CAD at work, but it would probably just get me in expensive trouble designing wild custom parts.... like yours! tapped blind holes and half-holes; pretty good machinist you've got!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> cool, I miss having access to CAD at work, but it would probably just get me in expensive trouble designing wild custom parts.... like yours! tapped blind holes and half-holes; pretty good machinist you've got!


I used cad at work back in the '90's (CATIA) but haven't had access for along time. So, for this project I found some software to download for Edit: NOT FREE (Alibre Design). I highly DO NOT recommend it.

As far as the wild machining. All the center features were as purchased (it started life as a taper lock sprocket). The blind tapped holes aren't too difficult.

Well being the holiday I had some time to work on things.

Turned down the OD of my pilot bushing myself. Seems they don't make a 15mm ID bearing with the OD to fit the Warp 9 motor. So I started with a Mcmaster carr HPF bushing (6659k28) and reduced the outside to about .001 over the bore dia of the hole in the motor. Well I first tired .010 over but when I pressed the bushing in it shrank the ID. The bushing was only a $1.50 so I had bought 2. good thing. Try 2 was successful and I now have a pilot bushing installed into the end of the Warp 9 motor.

Also spent time installing the taper lock bushing and flywheel adapter onto the motor. Due to the clearance being small between the motor and the face of the taperlock there isn't enough room to put the allen wrench in to tighten the screws. I had suspected this would be the case and had planned to switch to hex hed bolts. This worked out. I decided to have the bolts press on the outer edge of the taperlock with their head instead of pushing with the end of the bolt As I was having difficulty getting the bolt the right length and the end shaped right. I made some spacers to go under the bolt head so that the pressure would only be on the taperlock bushing and not the flywheel adapter (modified sprocket). This seemed to work very well. 

I also added a bushing between the taperlock and the shoulder of the motor drive shaft. This enabled me to remove and reinstall the taperlock without having to mess with setting the distance down the shaft each time. Just slide it over give it a tap with a rubber mallet and tighten. Oh I also ground about .020 off the face of the Taperlock bushing (inner part) so that when it was tightened it would not protrude past the flywheel mating surface. Another thing that I found was that there were some rough edges in a few spots of the taper part of the taper lock (from the casting process). Smoothing those greatly improved the fitup and run out of the adapter. Measuring at the friction face on the flywheel there is less than .005 TIR which should work just fine.

Looks like next step is to mount the motor to the transmission. 

Pic of the pilot bushing installed into the motor. You can also see the spacer on the motor shaft that sets the spacing of the taperlock on the shaft.











Here is a picture of the flywheel instaled on the motor and my measuring setup. I actually took some video of me turning the flywheel and the dial indications. Decided it wasn't exciting enough to post 










Here is a picture with the clutch installed (clutch alignment tool still in the center of the clutch. The clutch and flywheel will need to be removed again to install the AL plates that bolt the motor to the trans but I could resist test fiting and spinning the whole thing.


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## Stiive (Nov 22, 2008)

looking really good! I am also thinking of keeping the clutch in my conversion. Keep us posted with your progress...

Also interested if you can match your criteria of making the car faster or the same as the ICE. Should be okay with a Zilla but will be interested how it goes

good work so far anyway


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Stiive said:


> looking really good! I am also thinking of keeping the clutch in my conversion. Keep us posted with your progress...
> 
> Also interested if you can match your criteria of making the car faster or the same as the ICE. Should be okay with a Zilla but will be interested how it goes
> 
> good work so far anyway


yah remains to be seen how it turns out but I am hopefull. That is if the zilla will ever arrive 

Did a little more work. Mated the trans to the motor. Have some more trimming to do on the adapter plate (or plates depending on how you look at it). I mounted one plate to the motor and one to the trans. With the trans setting on the motor and the input shaft engaged with the clutch I spun the motor and centered or checked to ensure it was centered prior to pining the 2 plates together. One thing I found was the clutch alignment tool would align the clutch disc so the trans could be installed but it was not truely centered. So I used the dial indicator to center the clutch plate prior to putting on the pressure plate. This turned out perfectly.

Couple of pictures.
The taper lock installed on the motor










Transmission on top of the motor.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

UPDATE: When I spun the trans with the motor the transmission sounded like it was full of rocks. I was told it made a "rattle" when I bought it. I figured it just needed new bearings but this was a much more than a rattlle. Either way the trans needed to come apart so apart it came.

Turns out there are many teeth broken off 2nd gear. Too bad it wasn't first gear as it that doesn't seem to be needed in and EV. I'll spend some more time practicing rebuilding this transmission as with a car of this age the next trans I buy will likely need some rebuilding too.

Thaniel


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## Nitroghost (Dec 23, 2008)

where is Dublin Va? is that close to the North Carolina boarder? This looks like it will be an interesting build. I am looking into building a Scion xB EV.

Jim


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Nitroghost said:


> where is Dublin Va? is that close to the North Carolina boarder? This looks like it will be an interesting build. I am looking into building a Scion xB EV.
> 
> Jim


Dublin is right near Virginia Tech (blacksburg VA). It's an hour or so north of the NC border.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?zipcode=24084


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

EV construction has been slowed for some Tramission issues. I've gotten the transmission apart. The trans that "worked fine just needed a rebuild" is missing many teeth on 2nd gear.

















This trans is basically beyond repair. I wish it had been 1st gear as I probaby don't need 1st gear. The way it was the trans sounded like it was crunching gravel. No suprize there. For now I'm thinking I'll grind off ALL the 2nd gear teeth and just go without a 2nd gear. May not need it so much. I can get another transmission later. We'll see.

I think finish my adapter plate and then decide.

Thaniel


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> "worked fine just needed a rebuild"


WOW.... previous owner must have tried hard to accomplish that kind of destruction!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> WOW.... previous owner must have tried hard to accomplish that kind of destruction!


Agree. I don't see how he did it. I took a hammer to the gear (after i took the pictures) just to see how easy the teeth are to break. I couldn't get pieces like that off.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Ouch. Good thing you seem to know what you're doing. But:



Thaniel said:


> For now I'm thinking I'll grind off ALL the 2nd gear teeth and just go without a 2nd gear.


Can't you just avoid using second gear and let it be the way it is? Why do you need to grind off the teeth?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but gear boxes are an area I know virtually nothing about (except how to change oil in them) so I find this information very interesting.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Qer said:


> Ouch. Good thing you seem to know what you're doing. But:
> 
> Can't you just avoid using second gear and let it be the way it is? Why do you need to grind off the teeth?
> 
> Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but gear boxes are an area I know virtually nothing about (except how to change oil in them) so I find this information very interesting.


Originally I was hoping for that. Just clear out all the broken bits and let it go. But it's too far gone for that. I'll try to explain the why the teeth must come off (or a spacer put in the gears place)

In all modern manual transmissions the gear teeth on all gears are always constantly engaged and collars are moved to select which are locked to the rotating shafts. So When the missing teeth on both shafts line up the gear and the mating shaft rotate out of sequesnce with each other. As they rotate farther and the good teeth try to re-engage but are missaligned (one tooth comes down on top of each other instead of in between the other). There is a big crunch as they are forcibly lined up again. Even without the cruch the damanged teeth will create a lot of noise and likely chip of more. If I remove the teeth the damanged parts clear there will be no more damange and less drag and noise. 

If someone was using only one or two gears in their trans they'd be better off removing the teeth (or replacing with a spacer) the ones not being used to reduce the drivetrain losses. Probably not worth the work unless the trans is apart for something else. 

Hope that helps to explain it.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> Hope that helps to explain it.


Yep. Splendid explanation. Thank you.


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## sonic (Jan 3, 2009)

Do you plan to have an extra bearing between the flywheel and motor? I wonder cos there will be much axial pressure against the motor when pressing down the clutch pedal. 

I'm planing an conversion also and wanted a clutch just like you but have had second thoughts about it for this reason and the others mentioned earlier. 

Ideal would be if the bearings in the motor can stand up against axial and radial force.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

sonic said:


> Do you plan to have an extra bearing between the flywheel and motor? I wonder cos there will be much axial pressure against the motor when pressing down the clutch pedal.
> 
> I'm planing an conversion also and wanted a clutch just like you but have had second thoughts about it for this reason and the others mentioned earlier.
> 
> Ideal would be if the bearings in the motor can stand up against axial and radial force.


I initially had thought of putting in a thrust bearing. However I find many people have done conversions keeping the clutch with this motor and none have used a thrust bearing. From what i gather the bearings in the motor are adequate for the minimal axial load that will be placed on them when clutching. Seems reasonable to me. If there are problems the motor bearings could be swapped out for some with a higher axial load. I don't anticipate any trouble though.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Progress is slow at the moment. Amazing how much time earning a living and raising a family can take. Oh and I joined an online Sim racing league (again) . That didn't help. My EV project is a hobby anyway. The sooner it's done the sooner I'll be thinking of some other project. 

Not much to report except I did grind the teeth off 2nd gear. Didn't really take that long. Used a thin cutting wheel on my angle grinder to cut off most of the teeth. Kind of like cutting the kernals of corn of corn on the cob. Then I took a grinding wheel to it make it mostly round. Here's a before and after picture.


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> Progress is slow at the moment. Amazing how much time earning a living and raising a family can take. Oh and I joined an online Sim racing league (again) . That didn't help. My EV project is a hobby anyway. The sooner it's done the sooner I'll be thinking of some other project.
> 
> Not much to report except I did grind the teeth off 2nd gear. Didn't really take that long. Used a thin cutting wheel on my angle grinder to cut off most of the teeth. Kind of like cutting the kernals of corn of corn on the cob. Then I took a grinding wheel to it make it mostly round. Here's a before and after picture.


lol wow that took awhile eh?


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Technologic said:


> lol wow that took awhile eh?


Took about 30 min. Not sure if you'd consider that awhile or not. Wife said the sparks were more impressive than the firework fountains we usually buy for the 4th of july


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## ARti (Oct 27, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> So with that in mind I started working on a adapter to adapt the WarP 9 motor to the BMW flywheel. ...
> ...I'm plaining to make the adapter out of a sprocket with the ID bore and Keyway dimensions required to fit the motor. Will save on some machining.
> Thaniel


Are you using the stock flywheel? When we were looking at mine, we wondered if it would be helpful to replace the stock with something machined. I'm keeping the clutch, so I'll need something there, but it'd be nice to do without the extra rotational mass.

Bad idea? Good idea? not worth the hassle?

Thanks!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

ARti said:


> Are you using the stock flywheel? When we were looking at mine, we wondered if it would be helpful to replace the stock with something machined. I'm keeping the clutch, so I'll need something there, but it'd be nice to do without the extra rotational mass.
> 
> Bad idea? Good idea? not worth the hassle?
> 
> Thanks!


It's a wonderful idea. Reducing rotational mass is benficial in EV's just like in ICE's. What's even better in EV's is there no issue with the car being unable to idle or launch from a stop .

I'm using an aluminum flywheel designed for the 318 (smaller dia than 325 or M) and an unsprung clutch disc. The metal ring gear on the AL flywheel is a bolt on and I'll remove this a little later as well. I bought the flywheel and clutch disc used and in good condition for $100 off e-bay. For that much I figured it was worth it.

To get something with less rotational mass could go to a racing multiplate clutch and AL flywheel and turn off the ring gear. Would have more holding power and less rotational mass. I looked into it but the prices were crazy. 

Thaniel


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## ARti (Oct 27, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> It's a wonderful idea...
> Thaniel


Good deal. My machinist guy has suggested using a brake disk from something with the same diameter as the clutch disk. That ought to cut down on the rotational mass quite a bit.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

OK. First thing I should say is grinding the teeth of was a waste of time. I don't know what I was thinking. When I went to reassemble the trans and press the pieces back together I found that I could have just thrown the second gear in the trash. The clutch hub assy shouldered on part of the main shaft and did not need to have that piece there. Well now I know. Work life has been crazy so I haven't touched the thing in quite some time.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

*Zilla Arrives......I mean it really showed up!*

Ok after about 8 months of waiting it arrived!! The zilla's here. Pretty exciting. Surprisingly I didn't just tear open the boxes. I had a Sim racing league race that evening so i just put them aside. However as fate would have it my computer hiccuped after qualification and I wasn't able to race. So I opened the boxes and basked in the glory of having more EV parts. Let's re-live the box opening for those that haven't done it.

Here is what it looks like when it arrives.










Just Like Christmas. In side the box is 2 smaller boxes. The controller in one and the hairball and cables in the other. Of course included is the handy dandy notebook...or manual.









I also purchased the hall effect pedal (in it's own box) so I can do the full drive by wire. Here it all is right before I reboxed to put on the shelf. <sigh>. Guess I need to get to work on it all again.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Update. I reassembled the transmission and I cut out my adapter plates. The trans now mounts to the engine and spins without the rock crusher sound  Thinking seriously about mounting it into the car.

Adapter plate cut out 









Assembled









Stacked and bolted


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Nothing really new to report. Just thought I'd add some pictures since pictures are fun. Notice how close to the trans I mounted the motor. The larger plate is .5" thick and the smaller one about the dia of the motor is 5/8" thick. No modifications to the transmission side were required. The extra space may not matter. Have to see but either way a thinner spacer is lighter.

By the way I cut out the plates myself (exception being the precision hole in the motor spacer plate) using a simple hand jigsaw and an with an aluminum blade. What I thought made it go well was to pour water on the blade/plate to keep things cool. To do the motor spacer plate I'd say it took just under an hour and a gal or so of water.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Here's a screen grab from the cutting process. I have it in movie form but it pretty much looks like the picture with the noise of the saw going 









I put the bolt holes into the transmission adapter plate by bushing the trans bolt holes with some thin metal then drilling through the bolt holes. Then enlarging them to the right size. On my trans the locating dowels are in the same location as a bolt hole so I drilled that through the bolt hole. Counterbored with the closest standard drill size to the dowel hole. Then used a rotary file (round dill bit like attachment with a flat bottom. Kind of like and end mill) in my drill to enlarge them slightly and I mean slightly enlarge the hole and cut a square edge at the bottom of the hole. Worked great.

As others have done I then put the motor spacer plate on and the trans adapter plate and assembled them so they were against each other but not bolted together. I then spun the motor to center the trans. Drilled and doweled the two plates together. Removed them and drilled and dowled them in centered area and cut off the excess metal. I found when trying to center the trans that the best way was to put it together WITHOUT the clutch and move it around until the LEAST drag was felt (trans input shaft rotating easily in the pilot bushing). There was too much play in the splines of the clutch which allowed it to float more than the spining it and testing for the least drag (putting the trans in first gear will also make the differences more noticable.) I actually did mine with just the front half of the trans and the input shaft since I had it apart. When located in it's finished position I could spin the input shaft easily in the opposite direction when the motor was on and running (with the nose of the input shaft engaged into pilot busing in the motor). 

Not sure any of that information is useful. There are a number of good "how to's" on making adapter plates. I still would like to balance my flywheel adapter and maybe even the flywheel. However that'll wait until later. I think the next step will be to load the motor into the chassis and see how it fits. That'll have to wait though as I want to get some work done on one of my other vehicles first.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjhz9f9WXA8





 
Video anyone?


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## rgallagher (Jun 24, 2009)

Looks like a great project, Thaniel. 

42 people have viewed that video so far... maybe a slow night for cable tv.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

rgallagher said:


> Looks like a great project, Thaniel.
> 
> 42 people have viewed that video so far... maybe a slow night for cable tv.


yah not going to be a blockbuster 

Progress was delayed a bit as my rover needed some love. Here is the sparkly clean engine after re fitting the heads and rocker armes









of course a good helper is the key to a successful job (torquing the head bolts)


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

With the rover out of the garage the electric car could FINALLY be brought in. Thought I'd take a couple pics of it first "drive" into the garage. I also loaded the motor and trans into the car. 

Still deciding on engine and trans placement. I'll probably go with the factory placement for the transmission but I have been toying with moving it back 8". Makes for a lot of extra room in the front. The driveshaft from an automatic car is 8" shorter than the manual car and bolts up so that would be no issue. However customizing the shifter seems like a big pain. My time is probably better spent elsewhere on the car.

Other task was to remove the tank. This was actually quite easy. Remove the boot from the e-brake lever. Remove the nuts on the cables. Pull them out from under the car. Take out the three bolts holding the tank in and volia. After I had it out I found it still contained gas. I was under the impression it had been drained. So I pumped out 4 gallons of gas using the fuel pump. I weight the tank and lines and they come to 30lbs.

My wife and boy made me some cardboard mock ups of batteries. Playing with those it appears I can get 4 of them where the fuel tank was. There is gobs of room up front and in the trunk for the remainder. Just have to decide how many go in each of those spots.

Next steps:
Clean off the oil and gunk off the underside of the car.
Mount the motor and transmission
Design battery trays
Buy batteries.

Oh forgot to mention I think that I bought a hydrolic brake booster to replace the vacume booster. It'll take some customizing to get it installed in the car. I'll look into that as well. I guess I should also mention that while I was test fitting the motor in the rearward position I had loosely bolted the driveshaft to it. It was wedged up into the body and supported well so I couldn't resist and hit it with some juice and spun the tires. I'd post that video too so I could be nominated for an academy award but with the loose driveshaft it clanked quite a bit. Maybe when it's mounted correctly I'll post one 

Thaniel


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## ithinkidontknow (May 14, 2009)

I might be blind and you may have said this already but, what are you thinking of doing for batteries? I heard SLA and 120/144V but no mention of brand or Ah you are thinking. 

Anyway, the progress is looking good! From what I can tell, it looks like all the "hard" parts are over.

Good luck for the next steps


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Thank you for the interest. Yes, with luck the hard part is over. We'll see how it goes from here.

I don't think I mentioned the exact batteries as I'm still a little up in the air about which ones. Right now the needle is leaning toward Deka 9A31. It's an AGM battery with 100Ah. Thinking I might as well go with 156V the max voltage for the controller and use 13 batteries. I still do not feel confident I know enough about batteries but comparing the cost and weight of some similar batteries they seem pretty good. I still worry it won't be enough Ah as seems trying to predict the exact range is difficut. Guess I'll have to make a decision soon though.



ithinkidontknow said:


> I might be blind and you may have said this already but, what are you thinking of doing for batteries? I heard SLA and 120/144V but no mention of brand or Ah you are thinking.
> 
> Anyway, the progress is looking good! From what I can tell, it looks like all the "hard" parts are over.
> 
> Good luck for the next steps


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## ithinkidontknow (May 14, 2009)

Thaniel said:


> Right now the needle is leaning toward Deka 9A31. It's an AGM battery with 100Ah. Thinking I might as well go with 156V the max voltage for the controller and use 13 batteries. I still do not feel confident I know enough about batteries but comparing the cost and weight of some similar batteries they seem pretty good. I still worry it won't be enough Ah as seems trying to predict the exact range is difficut.


These batteries are fairly energy dense which is definitely a good thing. The only thing I would be worried about is price. I would hope that you could get these batteries for around $120 a piece +/- 20 bucks or so. Any more than that and it might be necessary to do some research for better buys. From what I can tell, many people have used these Deka batteries with some success. I also would say that AGM batteries are probably the way just based on complaints I hear from users of other battery types. 

How much do you expect your final product to weigh? Once you get a number, you might want to just search evalbum.com and compare with others of similar weight and specs. This will tell you around what you will need. With a quick search I found this DeLorean with similar specs (minus the amazing Zilla you have) that gets around 30 miles per charge http://www.evalbum.com/1482. 

Anyway, some food for thought I guess.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

AGMs are generally more expensive and lower range than floodies of similar capacity, but less voltage sag for higher performance. I have been very happy w/8v golf cart floodies from us battery. They make a deepcycle 12v that looks great, but it is a couple inches longer and taller than typical 12v marine or rv batteries. Has LOTS more AH tho!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

ithinkidontknow said:


> How much do you expect your final product to weigh? Once you get a number, you might want to just search evalbum.com and compare with others of similar weight and specs. This will tell you around what you will need. With a quick search I found this DeLorean with similar specs (minus the amazing Zilla you have) that gets around 30 miles per charge http://www.evalbum.com/1482.
> 
> Anyway, some food for thought I guess.


I believe my car will end up 3500 lbs with the batteries give or take. One of my concerns is with range aproximation is the hilliness factor. We have hills here and I'm not sure how much that kill the range. Also I can drive the freeway to work and the back roads to work. Obviously a big speed difference and probably will affect the range. I'm thinking I'll just have to try it and see. Worse case I find a way to charge when I'm at work.

Funny you should mention Daves Delorian. His build is what pushed me towards this battery. I emailed him and he'd already had 3 fail. Makes me concerned. Could just be due to the way they were charged so I'll have to pay close attention to that.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> AGMs are generally more expensive and lower range than floodies of similar capacity, but less voltage sag for higher performance. I have been very happy w/8v golf cart floodies from us battery. They make a deepcycle 12v that looks great, but it is a couple inches longer and taller than typical 12v marine or rv batteries. Has LOTS more AH tho!


Agreed, I did toy with using golf cart batteries but I would like the flexibility of mounting them on their sides and upside down (Which I will do to squeeze 4 in where my gas tank went). I also like the idea of not having to add water to the batteries. Yes a little more cost. 

Batteries are definatly a key piece and there is so much variety in choices and solutions.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> Funny you should mention Daves Delorian. His build is what pushed me towards this battery. I emailed him and he'd already had 3 fail.


I think you'll have a lot better luck with a quality charger and matched set of high quality 8v golf cart batts, or 12v scrubber bats than Marine batteries from Walmart.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I think you'll have a lot better luck with a quality charger and matched set of high quality 8v golf cart batts, or 12v scrubber bats than Marine batteries from Walmart.


I am definately open to options. I do not even pretend to be an expert on batteries. My design guidelines for the battery pack are: 
AGM - for mounting flexibility
900LBS max 
1300Ah min (combined pack) 
about $2K 

Still poking around but haven't found much better than the Deka at the moment. I have no loyalty to any particular brand or style. I just want it all to work  IF anyone has somthing that looks like it meets what I'm looking for let me know.

Thaniel


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> I am definately open to options. I do not even pretend to be an expert on batteries. My design guidelines for the battery pack are:
> AGM - for mounting flexibility
> 900LBS max
> 1300Ah min (combined pack)
> about $2K


hhhmmm, how solid are you on the AGM requirement? Be aware that I have heard with AGM its not a great idea to mount them sideways if possible to avoid.

You'll get more range for less money with floodies. No matter what, you want to be sure your charger is programmed with charge curves treat them well, not try to charge too fast, and include a balance cycle,and that the curves are different for AGM and floodies.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> hhhmmm, how solid are you on the AGM requirement? Be aware that I have heard with AGM its not a great idea to mount them sideways if possible to avoid.


2 or more will be mounted on their sides (space constraints in the mounting area I want them to go) so wouldn't have to be AGM but floodies wouldn't work.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> 2 or more will be mounted on their sides (space constraints in the mounting area I want them to go) so wouldn't have to be AGM but floodies wouldn't work.


you don't want to cut a hole in trunk floor and hang batteries 'mostly' under? Thats what I had to do to maintain use of rear seat, get weight low, and leave *some* ground clearance. I left about 6" clearance, batteries are almost 12" tall, which poked up thru the rear seat and cargo area. It was scary to start cutting, but not too hard once you get going. Then I used the top of the battery box (steel edges with polypro panels) as the rear seat.

http://envirokarma.org/ev/gallery/090125_rrack02.foam.htm

But, if ya wanna stick with AGM....

D


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> you don't want to cut a hole in trunk floor and hang batteries 'mostly' under? Thats what I had to do to maintain use of rear seat, get weight low, and leave *some* ground clearance. I left about 6" clearance, batteries are almost 12" tall, which poked up thru the rear seat and cargo area. It was scary to start cutting, but not too hard once you get going. Then I used the top of the battery box (steel edges with polypro panels) as the rear seat.
> 
> http://envirokarma.org/ev/gallery/090125_rrack02.foam.htm
> 
> ...


Nice work and convienent access. 

Unfortunately I need both the back seat and trunk space. Car will be a Kid hauler and grocery getter. Cutting is not a problem for me. Trunk floor is already cut out. What was the spare tire location will be batteries as will the fuel tank area and some of the engine compartment. For handling issues I'm trying to mount the weight low and balanced Front to rear. My goal is to have a good handling and acclerating car even if the range is only a few miles.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> Nice work and convienent access.
> 
> Unfortunately I need both the back seat and trunk space. Car will be a Kid hauler and grocery getter. Cutting is not a problem for me. Trunk floor is already cut out. What was the spare tire location will be batteries as will the fuel tank area and some of the engine compartment. For handling issues I'm trying to mount the weight low and balanced Front to rear. My goal is to have a good handling and acclerating car even if the range is only a few miles.


You can have both with vertical floodies still... I found that the top of my battery box was almost exactly as high as the original rear seat, and invaded the cargo area behind just a little. I decided NOT to haul around a spare or jack since I'll be no more than 10 miles from home, and I actually have slightly MORE cargo space than stock. The rear seat is a little hard as it is plastic with just about 1/2 inch of closed cell foam and astroturf on top. But, kids are light and trips are short.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> kids are light and trips are short.


I'm thinking my kids may be bigger than your's  I wouldn't call mine light.

Not a ton of progress. Working on installing the hydrolic brake booster in place of the factory brake boster.


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## autophile (Aug 9, 2009)

Did I see a youtube vid of you driving this beast? What batteries did you go with? Range? 0-60 times? 

What does a single charge cost? How long does it take?

Thanks for all the updates!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

autophile said:


> Did I see a youtube vid of you driving this beast? What batteries did you go with? Range? 0-60 times?
> 
> What does a single charge cost? How long does it take?
> 
> Thanks for all the updates!


The youtube video's I have posted are of Ben's 3 series EV. One of his build threads are http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/bmw-318-ev-conversion-19356.html

also some info here http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/60

Thought he had a blog too but I can't seem to find the page.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Update:

Progress is slow as my ICE powered cars are taking a bit of my time. Wife's maxima is crossing the 200K mark and decided it needed some maintance and repairs. But that's another story.

I completed my adaptors to mount the Hydroboost into the car. Turned out rather well. I'll ad pictures later as I'm away from home at the moment. 

I've been trying to purchase some batteries. I contacted the 2 battery dealers that were shown on the main website as closest to me. Asked them for their best price on 14 batteries and that I could come pick them up. It became very obvious that they have a HUGE margin on these products as they were more concerned about undercutting their other dealers AND making sure they were getting their commissions correct then they were in actually selling the product. In the end it seems they decided that my area is actually covered by a dealer in TN which is not even close to me and I won't be driving there to get them. Especially when I will be driving right by their north carolia store multiple times this month. So unless they cut me the deal of the century I don't think I'll be buying from them. I find this whole thing really anoying and am prepared to purchase from their competitor even if it is more money. That is if the competitor has better service.

That's it for now


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## autophile (Aug 9, 2009)

Thaniel said:


> The youtube video's I have posted are of Ben's 3 series EV. One of his build threads are http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/bmw-318-ev-conversion-19356.html
> 
> also some info here http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/60
> 
> Thought he had a blog too but I can't seem to find the page.



Thanks for the clarification.

Is this his blog? http://www.upstate-ev.com/

I found it linked from here http://evalbum.com/2151

Good luck with the rest of your project from another bimmerfan!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

autophile said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Is this his blog? http://www.upstate-ev.com/
> 
> ...


Yup that's it.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Ok things are busy and I'm not in a big hurry to finish as I enjoy having a project. So after some family vacations and more repairs on my ICE cars I did get back to the electric car. 

Update:
The Batteries I decided I wanted to use were Deka 9A31. Nearest dealer for them was 90 miles from my house in NC (I live in the middle of nowhere). I called them to see if I could come by and pick some up and they refered me to the dealer that "covered" my area. Well the dealer that "covered my area" was in TN and I'm in VA. So I don't see how that worked. But after some discussion they decided to let me pick them up at the closer site in NC. Thursday I took my SUV and trailer down. I had to pick up the wife and kids at the charlotte airport that direction anyway.

Well on the way down my trusty trailer, that I've had for years and towed thousands of miles, decided to start shedding parts. After being signaled by another motorist I found I'd lost a fender and had the light and licence plate were dragging on the ground. Humm... Nice. Not a good start. Everything else went fine but I wondered how the airport security felt about me rolling up with a tarped trailer to pick up my family 

Progress has also been made on the hydrolic brake booster instal. It is mounted and attached to the pedal. I also mounted the MR2 powersteering pump. I think this turned out well. I mounted it right behind the headlight in an area that I couldn't user for batteries. It's also on the side so if there are spills or leaks fluid won't get on any electronics. I've ordered the fittings and lines to make some custom lines (race car style) to hook it together.


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## autophile (Aug 9, 2009)

Thanks for the update.

I'm *sure* you raised some eyebrows at the airport with that trailer. I'm surprised you weren't stopped several times getting through there.

Glad everything went well and hope all the bits get on the car soon so we can see vids of you driving it.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

autophile said:


> I'm *sure* you raised some eyebrows at the airport with that trailer. I'm surprised you weren't stopped several times getting through there.


I tell you I didn't hang around long to give them a chance. 

Forgot to mention that on the MR2 pump I realized that the reservior could be rotated so that the return fitting could point another direction. However the bump on the inside of the reservior hits on some of the parts of the pump. I took off the plastic reservior and took a picture. See attached. So you get a better idea of what I'm talking about. So to orient the outlet at a very different angle it may require removing the reservior turning to the direction and refitting. sadly there are a few angles where it just can not be placed but that's not to big of a deal.

Also shown is the braided steel hose and fittings I used to make the custom AN style High pressure lines. Like what is common on race cars. It is easy enough to do. In my set up I have one line going from the PS pump to the hydro boost and one from the hydro boost to the P/S Rack. I need to finish the return lines then I could give the hydrolics a try.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Update.

Installed the Hall effect sensor Pedal. I keep wanting to call it a GAS pedal but obviously that's not right. My boy keeps correcting me with "Accelerator" pedal. Pic attached of the pedal installed. Have also connected the wire. I reused the firewall fitting/gromet that the cable had used. Just drilled it out a bit larger for a nice snug fit on the wire. Makes for a nice clean installation.

I also finished the high pressure and low pressure brake fluid lines. The 92-95 BMW's had low pressure brake fluid lines going from the fluid reservior to the ABS unit (see the picture). So I did a remote mount of the BMW fluid tank to the Mustang master cyl and ran new lines to the ABS. Doing some research I found that EPDM style rubber hoses are recommended for use with brake fluid. Looking around locally I found that hose made for farm fertilizer etc sprayers are made of the same thing. So I got some at tractor supply. So far it looks like it will work good.

The metal for making the battery trays also arrived. It was delivered quick and pricing was quite good I thought. Shipping was around $10 so it was definately worth ordering since no decent metal supply stores are any where near by.

Looks like I just need to get to work and put some more stuff together.

Thaniel.


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## FarFromStock (Mar 16, 2009)

Looking good Thaniel. Thanks for the updates.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Finally had a saturday where I wasn't travelling, there wasn't another car repair I had to do, the kids didn't have a scoccer game etc. so I got some work done on the EV. I'd really like to get it so it'll move under it's own power so I can move it out of the garage during the week. 

Started on the gas tank location battery rack. Made some good progress so far. Here's a pict in the middle of construction.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Very nice work. Now may batteries do you plan on putting in the fuel tank space? I'm looking at getting two odyssey pc2150s in there , one in the rear silencer space and one in the spare wheel well on my 316.

How did you connect the high pressure power steering hose to the banjo fitting on the rack?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Nice work there.

I assume that there is no problem laying those batteries on their side? Is that a clearance allowance? Just thinking about the thread in Batteries discussing the height issue of the LiFePO4s and how they can't, maybe, be laid on their sides.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Very nice work. Now may batteries do you plan on putting in the fuel tank space? I'm looking at getting two odyssey pc2150s in there , one in the rear silencer space and one in the spare wheel well on my 316.
> 
> How did you connect the high pressure power steering hose to the banjo fitting on the rack?


Plan to place 4 in the tank area. In the pic that shows the batteries on the other side of the frame will be 2 more with an open space for the driveshaft to go through the center. I've had the rack in the car with my cardboard battery mockups installed in it (doesn't everyone do that ) and it looks like it will work nicely.

I replace the banjo with a metric to AN adapter. I used the same fitting on my LS1 conversion http://ls1bmw.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-steering-pressure-line.html

Someday I'll put a blog together with part#'s and vendors. Some forums are funny about that so I don't usually spec that detail in the posts.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Nice work there.
> 
> I assume that there is no problem laying those batteries on their side? Is that a clearance allowance? Just thinking about the thread in Batteries discussing the height issue of the LiFePO4s and how they can't, maybe, be laid on their sides.


Yah AGM batteries can be layed on their side or upside down or whatever and be fine. One of the reasons I went with them as I had planned to install them this way were the tank went. Due to the shape of the cavity left after removing the fuel tank one could fit straight up and the other on it's side.


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## ARti (Oct 27, 2008)

Looks great Thaniel.
I'm still creeping along on my 318ti conversion; and wondering what to do for a tachometer input. What's your plan? 

Phillip


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

ARti said:


> Looks great Thaniel.
> I'm still creeping along on my 318ti conversion; and wondering what to do for a tachometer input. What's your plan?
> 
> Phillip


Glad to hear you are progressing. Creeping sounds like my pace at the moment

For the Tach input I originally had planned on mounting some magnets to the output shaft and then using a hall effect sensor to generate the signal. 

However now I think I'll use a Hall effect sensor in gear tooth mode (magnet on the sensor) and mount 4 bolts to my flywheel adapter to pick up the signal. That way it'll all be enclosed in the bell housing protected and leave the other shaft on the motor open for something else. I think it should work out nicely.

I want to remake my flywheel adapter and when I do I'll have the bolts added and then mount the sensor. However until I have the thing driving around the yard I figure it doesn't matter


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Quick question. Does you speedo work ok after removing the ecu? Mine seems to be dead!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Quick question. Does you speedo work ok after removing the ecu? Mine seems to be dead!


On the e36 BMW at least the speed signal comes from a sensor in the rear differential. Removing the ECU (DME) had no effect.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

thats what i thought. I ran the rear wheels but got no reading. I did however have the abs fuses removed as I didnt want to create a fault code.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> thats what i thought. I ran the rear wheels but got no reading. I did however have the abs fuses removed as I didnt want to create a fault code.


I'm not familiar with your vehicle but on mine when I run it with the wheels off the ground it gives an ABS fault but once the car is back on the ground and run will all 4 wheels at the same speed it clears the fault. I ran my V8-BMW project on the jack stands in all 6 gears . Yes it set the light and I thought oh no. However the ABS light went out on the first real drive on the road.

I'll have to check and see if my EV speedometer is working at the moment. I have very minimal electronics hooked up. The way I have it hooked up at the moment I don't need anything from the car's electronics to run the electric motor (jumper it to a 12V battery is all I have been doing so far).


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Quick question. Does you speedo work ok after removing the ecu? Mine seems to be dead!


I gave it a whirl and with 12V in 5th gear I got a whopping 15mph. So yes the speedo does work. I don't even have the engine wiring harness pluged in. Key did have to be on for it to register.

Oh update. I ordered the main wiring. After some reading I realized that 4/0 wiring is probably overkill and should buy 2/0. Cost difference would probably be about $100. Then I thought to myself.....if this were a gas car and I could get a few HP for an extra couple of bucks would I do it? Sure I would. Ordered 4/0 wire.

I also ordered a hammer crimper. I have a hydrolic press so I'm thinking I can just put it in the press instead of whacking at it with a hammer. I haven't ordered any lugs. I'm wondering if I can make some out of some copper tube. Prices seem to be a ripoff and I didn't see any with the through hole I needed. I'll give it a go after the wire arrives.

Manged to get a battery in my fuel tank location battery rack. I was able to test the clearances in the front and rear location. Looks like it'll work out great. Getting it up there with the batteries in it is going to be a trick but I'll worry about that when I get that far. I'm sure it can be done.

Thaniel


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> I also ordered a hammer crimper. I have a hydrolic press so I'm thinking I can just put it in the press instead of whacking at it with a hammer.


a press might work well, but be a little slow. I ended up BUYING a hex die crimper, but you can rent'em too and just pay postage, or may be able to rent local as well.



Thaniel said:


> I haven't ordered any lugs. I'm wondering if I can make some out of some copper tube.


The tinned lugs will corrode less than raw copper tube.... I'd 'buy', and be sure to get heat shrink, and full hoods on there too to prevent possible shorts from dropped tools, etc.. Use lots of petroleum jelly on final surfaces when finishing installation to prevent corrosion..


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I got the speedo working. I had to connect a 1k pullup resistor from the vss output from the dash to +12v. Only thing i can think of is it needed to see that voltage to enable. Strange but at least it works. Huge sigh of relief. I also got the tacho working. 12v peak square wave at 100hz equals 3000rpm. Thanks for your help.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> a press might work well, but be a little slow. I ended up BUYING a hex die crimper, but you can rent'em too and just pay postage, or may be able to rent local as well.
> 
> 
> 
> The tinned lugs will corrode less than raw copper tube.... I'd 'buy', and be sure to get heat shrink, and full hoods on there too to prevent possible shorts from dropped tools, etc.. Use lots of petroleum jelly on final surfaces when finishing installation to prevent corrosion..


Both good points. I was looking around and found some tinned lugs with the right bolt hole in them for a reasonable price. Think I'll just order them.

As far as crimping taking time.....My kids like to use the press. So I'm thinking of letting them do the end crimping. If that works then taking awhile won't be a problem 

I have my motor mount bracket just about done. Painted it last night. will have to get some pictures and post it. Went a little different way than what I have seen most do.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> I have my motor mount bracket just about done. Painted it last night. will have to get some pictures and post it. Went a little different way than what I have seen most do.


I look forward to seeing it.... they take a surprising amount of torque, so I hope its beefy! I got a little careless on my first design, and it broke at a predictable spot; but was easily repaired and beefed up.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I look forward to seeing it.... they take a surprising amount of torque, so I hope its beefy! I got a little careless on my first design, and it broke at a predictable spot; but was easily repaired and beefed up.


Well here is the motor mount. It attaches to the 2 side bolts on the motor and 2 of the front bolts. I'm attaching it to the crossmember using using 2 existing holes. I used 2 rubber transmission mounts instead of motor mounts as they are smaller and this motor is lighter than the gas engine. I also didn't go with the ICE engine motor mounts and locations as I wanted to leave room on the side of the motor for another battery. I think it turned out well. 

Location is good being Dead center and level.

Oh wire arrived today. Looks nice and beefy (4/0) and is quite flexible.

Finally have gotten to the point where many people are after just a few weeks. Oh well it is not a race 

I need to select and find a place to buy the fuse, circuit breaker and shunt.

Thaniel


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

good grief, that 4/0 is huge! You are going to have an interesting time crimping lugs... The motor mount looks nice! No big cantilevers to snap off.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Blimey! That cable looks as thick as your wrist!

I don't think you will have much volt drop or heating with that.


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## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

I used 4/0 cable throughout as well. Figured it would only add $60 to the cost of the build. I can't get over the diameter it appears to be in the photo! It looks like gas line pipe!

I think the OD on my cable was about .810". That stuff looks way bigger. I wonder if the bright orange makes it appear larger?

I used HD tinned copper crimp on lugs and rented a manual crimper. I had 18 ends to crimp, each end received two crimps. I'm not a small man, but I nearly popped a vein in my forehead getting that job done. The hydraulic press sounds like a good idea! Just be carefull not to overcrimp or damage your crimper in the press.

The motor mount is a bit unique, but looks good.

I want to offer encouragement for the long road ahead. Yes, it will take longer than you plan on (mine sure did!), but keep at it and it will get done and it will be worth it. Great car BTW, I'd love to do a BMW.

Take care.

Rob


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Thank you for the comments and encouragement. It's suprising how much just finishing the motor mounts has energized my interest in the project.

The motor mount I think will work out great. I am a mechanical engineer and use to design weldments as a job years ago. Did not do any analysis on this structure, other than rough numbers for the force that'll be applied at the mount points, but it should be plenty strong. And small is light and more room for the batteries. Oh and it was only about $10 in materials.

Yah the wire looks bigger in the picture than it really is. Measured the OD and it's roughly .85 so sounds pretty standard for 4/0 wire. Maybe it looks large because my 9yr old boy is holding it and the camera angle. I was trying to show how small each strand was in the picture. I've attached another. Seems like good wire and is flexible. And the pricing was reasonable. Here is a post that I read before buying the wire http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=145366&postcount=10

The box and wire had http://www.trystar.com/ on it but I didn't see online ordering but there was a phone number. 


Also attached a pic of the engine bay. And I'm working on uploading a video of it runing on 12V.

Got the clutch working today. Apparently to bleed this clutch system the slave cylinder has to be removed from the trans and tilted to have the bleed valve up. Weird. Did that and the clutch now works.

Am behind on ordering things. Lugs and welding equiptment for welding aluminum are finally now on order.

Looking at what guages I needed and found that the zilla will Display motor current on the tach. Interesting. Do I even need a battery current Ammeter? I think for now I'll go sparse on guages and add later but before it hits the road. My Goal right now is to put it together enough it'll drive in and out of the garage. So a lot of the guages and such can wait. 

Next steps will be:
1. Make front battery trays
2. Mount Controller and wire up hairball
3. Wire up front batteries

Ok you tube is done. Video is 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiOYDu8Rk3M

Thaniel


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi Thaniel - just re-read your build thread (things are more impressive now that I am facing many of the same challenges).

It seems you removed your vacuum drive brake booster, and replaced it with a hydraulic brake booster driven from the power steering pump - I have not run across this before - it would save room in a packed engine compartment. Once you search for it though, there are lots of units...

I found this unit:
http://rb-kwin.bosch.com/us/pool/usa/pdfs/HydroMax_Hydraulic_Brake_Booster_Manual.pdf
which had a backup dc pump built-in...

Do you have more details on the unit you used?

The only down-side I can see is that at high speeds, you want the power steering pump to reduce pressure to save energy (ie you do not need power steering at high speed) but this is when you need power brakes the most. I was planning to use the VSS speed sensor input from my RAV4 and input this to the signals on the MR2 PS pump... You probably would have to run the PS pump at full output all the time - this is probably not a biggy though as when you are going straight the pump should not draw any significant power...


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> Hi Thaniel - just re-read your build thread (things are more impressive now that I am facing many of the same challenges).


I know What you mean about rereading peoples threads. I've re read some of other peoples threads different things are striking me as I am in a different stage. I always glazed over wireing and instrumentation and now I really pay attention.



gdirwin said:


> It seems you removed your vacuum drive brake booster, and replaced it with a hydraulic brake booster driven from the power steering pump - I have not run across this before - it would save room in a packed engine compartment. Once you search for it though, there are lots of units...
> 
> I found this unit:
> http://rb-kwin.bosch.com/us/pool/usa/pdfs/HydroMax_Hydraulic_Brake_Booster_Manual.pdf
> ...


Yes Hydroboost is more common that one would think. The unit I am using is off a '97 Mustang Cobra. I've read some Chevy Astro vans have hydroboost and numerous other vehicles. Even BMW has a hydroboost in some models Didn't go with a BMW unit as cost for one would be higher.

As far as reducing pressure or even shutting it off at times I don't think that will be a problem. The unit has a hydrolic storage vessel on it so it can hold some pressure in reserve . For example if an ICE engine shut off at high speed it would not leave the vehicle without power assist brakes. Two or 3 stabs at the pedal and still have assist are pretty typical. If I had the pump come on (or go from low to full speed) at the first press of the pedal I'm thinking the driver will not even feel the difference. Some details to work out there to be sure. In my opinion it actually seemed safer that a Vac pump and tank which could easily be depleted and takes much more space to have much storage capacity. I'll know more after I drive it around.

Realized I never posted much as far as pictures of the hydroboost. On mine I ended up remote mounting the reservior due to BMW having some weird low pressure brake fluid lines going to the ABS on my model year. Would not need to do that on most cars and could just use the reservior that came with the hydroboost. 













Notice in the pic above the black round cylinder protruding toward the camera above the master cyl and below the brake fluid reservior. This is the hydrolic pressure reservior for the reserve pressure. in the other pic you can see the 1/2" aluminum spacer plate I made from some scrap to help it fit into my car. I also reworked the steel mounting plate it came with some what.

Thaniel


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for showing more detail of your hydraulic braker booster Thaniel...

I would check into somehow modifying the VSS signal into the MR2 power steering pump, so the pump would be on at low speeds, but also so it could come on whenever the hydraulic pressure in your brake booster was low? The best of both worlds - power savings plus good braking performance at high speeds...


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## FarFromStock (Mar 16, 2009)

It looks like you are making good progress! I really like the cradle motor mount.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> I would check into somehow modifying the VSS signal into the MR2 power steering pump, so the pump would be on at low speeds, but also so it could come on whenever the hydraulic pressure in your brake booster was low? The best of both worlds - power savings plus good braking performance at high speeds...


I definately plan to look in to some options. I would expect there would be a way to hook it up nicely.



FarFromStock said:


> It looks like you are making good progress! I really like the cradle motor mount.


Yes things are coming along. Here is this weekends update.

Since I wanted to build battery trays out of alumiunm I purchased the materials needed to convert my MIG welder over to weld aluminum. After an evening of frustrating attempts at welding I did some more reading and found I had the heat setting all wrong. Today I managed to actually join some metal. 

Made a little progress on the front battery tray. There will be 4 batteries on the lower level. 2 on the passenger side of the motor one on the driverside and one inbetween. I need to add a tray to hold three batteries above the motor and more car to tray supporting structure.

The lugs I ordered are suppose to be here monday. The fuses I ordered I have no clue. Maybe in a few weeks it can move under it's own power.


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## czwbattery (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: BMW S-202batteries*

I also want to Buy fit model: BMW S-202batteries , Could you advise ?

[email protected]


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

*Re: BMW S-202batteries*

]



czwbattery said:


> I also want to Buy fit model: BMW S-202batteries , Could you advise ?


See below  That's why I'm on the forum looking for electrical help.



Thaniel said:


> I'm good with automotive wiring but am not an electrical expert.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Thought I'd finally dive in and try to make sense of the charger situation. Been reading on chargers and AGM batteries. Seems that many/most individual 12 V battery chargers do not have the right charge profile for AGM batteries even when they state they are acceptable for AGM use. Temperature compensation, lower voltages than flooded batteries during charge, Voltage sensing (not current sensing) and no extra high voltage (balance mode or some finishing modes) were specified by my battery manufacturer and seems to be required by almost all AGM manufacturers but found on almost all the individual chargers and some higher voltage chargers that specified good for use with AGM. Good thing I learn that now instead of after I fry a few batteries.

I haven't made a final decision but I'm leaning toward individual or bank chargers for on board. This way the batteries will be balanced between each other every time and never over charged. Thinking about 10 AMP each or 1680 Watts (12v*14 batts * 10 amps = 1680 watts). Seems a respectable amount of charge and will probably draw between 15-20 AMPs from a 110 socket. Thinking I could perhps I could have a timer to turn half on at a time for use with a 15 AMP 110 socket.

The one I like most still has a balance mode and finish mode with unacceptable levels. However the manufacturer said they can do custom charge profiles. I'll have to see how much $ that is.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

More progress on the front battery tray. Added most of the upper tray above the motor. Spent most of saturday on it. Seems like I should have made more progress but it takes time. Also learning a new skill of welding aluminum does slow me down some. Some welds are great and some are horrid. I'm having a hard time telling what makes the difference. More practice is needed.

Took a picture of my helper standing on the battery rack. Thought it would make a funny picture. Of course he reminded me that he only weighs what one battery weighs. So I stood on them. Seemed plenty strudy and so far the rack weighs less than 15 LBS.

The mail man dropped off the fuses and heat shrink tubing. The wire lugs arrived earlier this week so I now have enough parts I should be able to make the car drive around the yard. Just some assembly required.

Thaniel


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

besides Argon what else did you buy for your Mig to do Alum??? Did you get the hand gun??? I tried to convert my mig by just adding the Alum spool inside and feed it through the long hose,, didn't work well it kept bending the wire inside the welder due to the length it had to shove it through,, alum wire is not nearly as stiff as mig wire,, needless to say I have a full tank of Argon just sitting there. I am curious to see what you did please tell me

Brian


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

We have a 120V Miller mig. We had to buy a new lead for the wire feed, that had a Teflon liner inside. 

Seems that the Aluminum wire will slough off the oxide that forms on it from air contact, and it builds up inside the lead, and eventually causes the problem you encountered. Run that wire through your hand, and your hand turns black. That's what causes the problem. That's the reason for the spool gun, short push of the wire. 

We used a rag to push the wire through before entering the lead, and, it DID help, but, not enough if you have a lot of welding to do, at any one time. 

We bought an old Hobart Tig welder, and use the Miller for Steel or SS welding.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

rctous said:


> besides Argon what else did you buy for your Mig to do Alum??? Did you get the hand gun??? I tried to convert my mig by just adding the Alum spool inside and feed it through the long hose,, didn't work well it kept bending the wire inside the welder due to the length it had to shove it through,, alum wire is not nearly as stiff as mig wire,, needless to say I have a full tank of Argon just sitting there. I am curious to see what you did please tell me
> Brian


While a hand gun (or spool gun?) would be ideal the ones I saw were very expensive. So no I didn't buy one but would like one.

To convert to weld to aluminum I installed a new liner, guides, and driver roller made especially for feeding aluminum wire and a new welding tip. The liner is smooth plastic like with a very small ID.

Yes feeding the wire is an issue. I found the best thing to do is reduce tension on the feed rollers to almost nothing. As light as possible anyway. When the wire gets stuck better to have it not move then "birds nest" inside the welder. High pressure on the feed roller can also squash the wire and make it difficult to feed. Also no tension on the spool.

I can get it to feed reasonably well. However my welder is boarderline for having enough current to weld the thickness I am doing (1/8"). I find if I start at an edge and get things melting and then move it works reasonably well. However sometimes I get lots of burn back and cant seem to get a stable arc started. Not sure why that happens. Might be my surface prep or not enough heat. I've played with doing some preheating and didn't think it was helping and quit. maybe I should try it again.

My welder is nothing fancy so mine can do it I am sure yours can too.

Thaniel

P.S. I have a Lincoln electric ProCore 100 (see very basic welder). I installed kit k664-2. Not that this kit would work on your welder (unless it is the same) but to give you an idea of what the parts are.
https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?PNUM::1:UNDEF439618:OR:K664-2


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks both of you for the info I may try again but ultimately I think I want a TIG welder mabey for XMAS Next year,, I may try again with lower wire tension and see if I have better luck. I only tried it once, but had to by the tank for the Argon like 189 bucks or so so I figure I might as well use it for something.

Brian


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Last weeks work update. I added the supports for the batteries on the tray that goes above the motor. That finished of my Argon gas for welding and had to get a refil. I think I'll use less now that I know what i'm doing.

Started making battery cables. I played with soldering them on. I had thought of soldering AND crimping. However the fit of the lug to the wire was snug so inserting the wire with a heated lug didn't work well. So I'm just crimping. Using the hammer crimper in the press works very easy. Seems to be working well but I have no other experience with this type of work to compare it with.

I also cleaned up or rather filed off some of the ugly welds. I need to re weld some of the bad ones. I'll also add some gussetts and some minor touchups. A real nice part is I won't have to paint it


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

With the winter coming on and waking to images of below when I go out to my current Daily driver









The desire to have the EV out in the cold and my current ride in the garage is greatly increased. I'm hoping by end of christmas break at the latest to have the EV moving on it's own power even if on ony 7 batts. Progress so far.









Most of the high voltage lines are done. I need to make 3 more. Still haven't finished the return lines on the PS so that's left and then wire up the Hair ball. See how much longer that takes.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Looking back on the progress and dates of this project I'm disapointed on how slow it is going. I suppose it's the journey not the destination.... well maybe it's both.

Finished the High voltage lines and spent some time on the wiring harness for the hair ball. I've decided to mount it in the ECU's old location. Should be out of the way and safe for it. Since it's cold I tried to do as much as I could indoors.

Here's The progress:









The store I was at didn't have small enough the wireloom for the few strands that branch off in the middle. I'll add protection to those later.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Installed the hairball and below is a video of the results. If you are wondering at the beginning of the movie I'm looking into the pocket where the hair ball is to see the LED's on it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xMNC_DCBU


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Nice work! I see your reusing the old diagnostic socket?


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Nice work! I see your reusing the old diagnostic socket?


I wish I reused the diagnostic socket. Sadly that was separated from the vehicle by the previous owner. The big socket is from the ICE harness that is being reused.

Dropped the car on it's own wheels today. Gave it a little run. My 9 year old is doing the filming. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lYSEYfFFcA

I was quite impressed by how easy it was to make a very smooth start. Was really weird to not need the clutch to start or stop. Will take some getting used to. Need to finish wiring up the powersteering pump and getting chargers. Will wait until those are finished to take a more prolonged drive. Sitting on it's wheels the front seems to not be over loaded. Actually may be a bit light. The back its practically at the top of it's suspension (no batteries in the back yet).

It is very cold today and I was happy to get the "garage queen" out and my daily driver back in.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

With the excitement I forgot to add some more information about the conversion. 
Here's a pic from this morning.










I had looked into boots to go over the battery posts. Most seemed to be more than a $1 each. Can't cost more than 10 cents to make so I find the price hard to swallow. I ended up using some 1/2" heater hose that was left over from another project. Cut about 2.5" chunks and then split them down the side. They slip right over the cable nicely. When I hook up the charger or BMS connections. The cable for that can come out the open end of the hose.

THe Fuse: (white cylinder) in the cable going from the lower battery to the upper battery on the far side. I've seen in many conversions that the fuse is put at the end of the battery chain. My biggest fear is short circuiting the battery pack (thanks to reading plasma boys account of the white zombie). With the fuse at the end of the chain seems easy to short circuit it prior to the fuse. In the middle it'd be very unlikely to short circuit in a way to miss the fuse. So it makes me feel better. I also plan to place a fuse in the rear pack as well. I'll fabricate a better cover for the fuse and it's connections. Plan on using a piece of plastic 90 conduit split on one side or something. For now the rubber hose will keep it somewhat protected from stray hands or tools.

Hard to see but to the rear of the zilla is the ECU pocket where I mounted the hair ball. I have the cover over it now so it is out of harms way. Yes it's harder to work on but I am hoping that I won't be revising the wiring on it often.

You can see the zilla coolant lines are not yet connected. Today with them temps in the teens and only moving it out of the garage there was no fear of overheating  A cooling system will be added before the car sees any long drives. I'm looking at a system similar to what is used for water cooled home PC's. Oddly enough the pumps are run off 12V.

Still need to work out what meters I want/need. And choose a charging system. I'm thnking of using a multi bank charger(s) to charge and keep the pack balanced all the time. Another thread has details on my charger search. 

All I can think of at the moment.


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## ARti (Oct 27, 2008)

Congratulations on the test run. I'm sure you're better off for the intermediate test runs instead of waiting like I've been doing for the "big bang" after everything's put together. It's gotta be a big boost to actually feel the progress.

Happy New Year,
Phillip


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

ARti said:


> Congratulations on the test run. I'm sure you're better off for the intermediate test runs instead of waiting like I've been doing for the "big bang" after everything's put together. It's gotta be a big boost to actually feel the progress.
> 
> Happy New Year,
> Phillip


Yes I think the intermedate run adds lots of excitement. Tonight I took the whole family for a short ride when I put the car back in the garage for more work. Everyone thought it quite eerie to have it so quiet.

Update on progress.
With the car moving now I had new excitement for the project. But with the cold (11 degrees at night) I wasn't all that excited to work on it. So I spent my time shopping for parts. Settled on a number of parts:

Charger: Minn-Kotta Mk-440 and MK-330 chargers.
These chargers are multi bank chargers that individually charge each battery. Basically it's like having multiple chargers in one box. These have temperature probes in the battery leads to compensate for the rise in battery temp. Not as big of a concern with floodies but it is an issue with AGMs. The 440 charges 4 batteries at 10 amps max per battery. the 330 charges 3. So I'll use 2 of each on my project. I think this is going to work well and should help with battery life.

Controller (zilla) cooler: Going with a system designed for PC's. Much cooler than an aquarum pump and it's also 12V so no need for an inverter. Went with Thermaltake CL-W0103 and Radiator CL-W0181. The pump system I really like. Comes with it's own tank (ya so) but the cool part it has it's own level sensor and also an in line temperature sensor with a little digital display. Nice for keeping track of the controller temp.

Connectors: I was about to cobble up some connectors for the MR2 pump. Gave searching the internet one more try and found some part#'s and punched them in a dealer site. were around $4 to $7 each. So I ordered them. When they arrived they came sans pins. Ha. Should have figured coming from the dealer. Dug around in my wiring bin and found some old Rx-7 connectors that had the right size for the smaller ones just a little long. Filed them slightly and looks like they'll work great. The pump I bought actually had the larger connector so I was good there.
Part#'s Large connector 90980-12068; Middle connector 90980-10897; Small end connector 90980-10942

Haven't decided yet what I'm going to do for guages. I've got some ideas but none yet.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

More updates:
1/16/10
Wired up the MR2 Powersteering pump and hooked it up. It seems to function well. Asside from forgetting to tighten one of the fittings everything worked perfectly. However compared to the near complete silence of the rest of the car it sounds amazingly loud. At speed or with the radio on it will likely not be noticable at all. However made me start thinking manual brakes and steering would be fun.

1/23/10
With the steering hooked up I took the car for a few runs up and down the drive way. It's long (maybe 400 ft or more) and has a big hill in it. The car seems to work quite well asside from the 12 v battery to run the accessories that came with the car has no capacity. I'll be switching it out soon. Realising that "a lot of unfinished projects are the sure sign of a perfectionist" I weged in my chargers and hooked them up. They look like they are going to work wonderfully. No pictures yet. I'll post some later when I'm actually at home.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Here is a picture of the chargers and them hooked up. I'll tidy up the wiring some time. For now I just wanted to be able to charge the batteries so I can drive the car around a bit. unfortunately it snowed. And snowed and Snowed  Several feet and here it usually only snows a few inches all winter. Haven't had the mail delivered in days now. Garbage man still hasn't came by. The kids have been off school for more than a week. I've been spending my free time clearing snow and not working on the EV. 

My anticipated run down the street has never happened as the streets clogged with snow (snow plow has still not plowed the street) and I don't want to get snow into the motor. I haven't installed a belly pan yet.

I really need to do some more work on the project but finding it hard to get modivated. So when is spring coming?


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Thaniel said:


> ...
> My anticipated run down the street has never happened as the streets clogged with snow ...


That has to be the most frustrating part of your project! So you have an "EV Grimace" and are waiting it out for the Grin...

Looks great under the hood!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> That has to be the most frustrating part of your project! So you have an "EV Grimace" and are waiting it out for the Grin...
> 
> Looks great under the hood!


Thanks for the compliment.

Unfortunately Doesn't look like the EV will be making a trip down the road anytime soon. Snow's starting to drift now and there's no way it'd make it even if it wanted to. Oh well. Maybe next month


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

You DO have battery tie-downs , right?!


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> You DO have battery tie-downs , right?!


Not yet. Still on the list of things to do. I need to add a tach sensor and tiddy up somethings so I'll be removing everything again. I'll likely need to weld a few tabs on to bolt the hold downs too when it's all out (saw lots of people use straps but I'm concerned about aging).

I also don't have a licence, insurance, saftey inspection, bumper, controller cooling system, undertray and half the batteries . Yah I'm no where near using it as a commuter. But I think I'd run down my one lane dead end road anyway if it weren't for the snow. 

Snow plow finally came down my road friday 2 weeks after it was covered in snow. Kids have been out of school for 2 weeks. 

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

The snow melted enough by this saturday I decided to take the car for a little run around the neighborhood (on half the batteries) Put 3 miles on it fooling around. Need to get some insurance and plates so I can try going farther.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cb-2gasW0s

Lots more to do but was funny to try it out.


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## ARti (Oct 27, 2008)

Looks fun.

Hey, I ran across someone with some good info on BMW e36 instrument cluster signals (tach, Check Engine etc.) on a 318ti forum. It might be a little different for your sedan, but could still be useful info:

http://318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29504

Phillip
`


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

If the tach input is like mine it will require a 1k pullup resistor to +12v and be pulsed low twice for each revolution.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Update:

I've been very lax in posting updates. So far I have built the battery box for the trunk area. I decided to go with 4 in the trunk and 2 in the fuel tank area. I just couldn't get 4 in the fuel tank area without sacraficing ground clearance. Just made me nervous to have the batteries slung low. So the rear rack is done and just have to finish up the tank rack.

Getting better at welding aluminum (FINALLY). Last welding session things went much better. Not perfect but I never got to the point where I wanted to throw anything . Practice makes perfect or well at least better.

The cooling pump and tank for the controller are mounted. I just need to mount the little radiator and it's good to go.

Here are some pics of the rear rack in progress.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> built the battery box for the trunk area. I decided to go with 4 in the trunk and 2 in the fuel tank area.


looking pretty good! did you leave room for box sides and heaters? maybe it doesn't get cold where you are?


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> looking pretty good! did you leave room for box sides and heaters? maybe it doesn't get cold where you are?


Yah there is room around the box for insulation or heaters. Shouldn't be a problem if I want to add. Currently I'm thinking I won't use it much in the winter. If I do it doesn't get real cold here (usually above freezing) and I'd keep it in the garage.

As far as progress there really hasn't been any. Decided to try and sell my house and move to a new neighborhood. So all my time has been getting the house ready to show. 

My brother did stop by last weekend as he was driving through. He took the car for a spin and liked it. however I sense it was anticlimatic. I think people expect it will be something very different where in reality it drives very much like a normal car. OH he's into boating and quickly recongnized the Minkota name. He gave a thumbs up to using their chargers.

Seems I'm so close to having it ready for driving to work but just not quite there yet.


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## !kid (Mar 30, 2010)

nice work! 
i have an e30 that i will be converting 
your build is giving me inspiration


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Update:
Installed the radiator for the zilla last weekend or was it the one before that. I can't keep track. The radiator and pump system is designed for cooling PC's. It is very quiet and seems to work well.

This week I believe the car will get insurance and licence. Suprisingly my house sold already. So I'll be driving the car to my new house on or before the 28th of this month. I had expected to put the house on the market and go back to working on the car while waiting it to sell but it sold quickly. That's good but I've been spending time looking for a new house and getting ready to move so very little is being done on the car. I did manage to find a new house in a very nice neighborhood. Sadly the new house I picked out does not have a garage. Garages are not popular here at all. Once moved in I'll have to see about building one.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Saturday the 8th I put on the licence plates and took it for a drive. My brother was in town so I let him give it a try too. We drove it for about 7 miles. It definitely needs the additional batteries hooked up. I had ALL the batteries in the car but only half powering it. The added weight with no gain sure was a performance drain. I also started to really notice just how hilly the area around my house is.

Friday the 14th my last chargers arrived. YAH! I'd been using my regular 12V charger I've had forever to charge the battery for the cars system. It's also an AGM. I think the new chargers have a better charge profile and I'm more comfortable with leaving it on the battery for extended periods. If I haven't mentioned I bought a 1 bank (single), 2 bank and another 4 bank charger.

I'll have to add pictures later.

My move to the new house is coming on the 28th. The drive to the new house is 9.5 miles. Already drove the car 7 miles fooling around the other day and didn't use more than 50%. (I didn't wait for the batteries to rest prior to taking the voltage) I wasn't driving it easy so I think it should be able to do the 9.5 even with the hills. Once settled in the new house I'll finish hooking up the rest of the batteries. All my time right now is going to getting ready for the move.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

On May 21st I took the car for it's first REAL duty as a car. Other than joy riding that is. Had a party to go to that wasn't far away and took the EV. Was going to take the whole family. Piled in and the kids couldn't find their seatbelts. Must be stuck under the seat cushion. So I pulled up the seat to get them but they were gone  (only the rear center one left) Now who takes the seatbelts out of a car? Some previous owner obvisously. Stupid. So I took the 2 kids with me and my wife drove her car. So not exactly enviornmentally friendly but I'd already committed to my friends that I'd bring the EV.

As those of you that have them have experienced, I was asked all the typical questions. How far how fast does it go, How long to charge, cost to drive, Did you build it yourself etc. Being my 3rd mutant car (though first EV) I've made it is by far the most popular. Interest in EV's seems to cut across so many segments of the population it amazes me they aren't more on the road. I should have taken a picture of the crowd that gathered soon after I pulled up. Then after it died down I closed the hood and headed off only to be brought back by another person that'd heard of it. At the end of the night after unplugging the car, climbing in and getting turned around in the drive the on lookers flagged us down to see under the hood. (at first they had thought I'd just rolled the car backwards using the slope of the hill but when I came back up they became very interested).

This friday I'll drive the car from my old house to new house. Once settled there I'll wire up the new batteries. From the little driving that I've done it's also clear the shocks and struts are shot. After 200,000+ miles it's no suprise. So I'll need to work on that too. Oh And buy some rear seat belts.

Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Been busy working on Selling and buying houses and moving. Being I didn't have possesion of my new house everything had to be in limbo to sell the first house and while I bought the new house (2 hours later). So everything went into a moving van, trailer or car. Then the vehicles were stashed in various nearby parking lots until I could get them all to the new house after I bought it. 

EV had to be moved as well. So on move day the 28th I had planned to drive it over to the new house when we did our final walk through and leave it parked in that neighborhood. The drive would be 9.5 miles and on half the batteries it should make it just fine. But to be sure I had all the range possible I left the car plugged in untill the last second. Stashed the moving truck and another vehcle and came back to get the EV While the perspecive buyers were doing their final walk through. I unplugged it, threw the extension chords in the trunk and jumped in the EV to drive it to the new home. Turned the key and lights lit up and did their thing. I smelled a faint smell of....something. What was it. Burning plastic? oh no. I turn around and look in the back of the car and see a thick cloud of smoke emerging through the speaker cover from the trunk.  WHAT!! The car needs to move today, now. I have a million things that have to be done that day and this is just one of them. 

I turn off the key and throw open the trunk. I hadn't had time to install the charger for the car 12v power properly so I had used some clips to secure the leads and strapped the charger down in the trunk. Since that was all that was in the trunk I expected a short in that area to be the issue. I grabbed all the leads from the charger and ripped them from the battery (just clipped on). The wires I'd jused to clip the charger were melted and I'd slamed the leads into the trunk latch. DOH. Hopefully that wouldn't affect driveability since it was outside the car's systems.

Sure enough the car drove. Whew. Oddly the tach and speedometer guages didn't read. My wife following in her car could tell me my speeds. The drive was uneventful and it was really weird having the car out in traffic at traffic lights the whole deal. Actually felt like it was a real car and not just a toy.

So the car is at my new place. I've been unpacking and painting so nothing new has been done to the EV. I did move it once and the tach appeared to work so maybe nothing permanatly damaged. Will install the chargers properly now so no more shortcircuits.

More to come later.
Thaniel


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Forgot this. I went to closing and the buyer of my house when we met said "I like your electric car". Since it was still at the house when they looked at it I didn't think much of it and just said thank you. Then he mentioned watching the videos on youtube of it. Didn't think much of that either as there are links from my pages to the videos etc. Then later it dawned on me. If he saw the car in person how'd he find the links on the web? Small world.

Enough of my ramblings. Hope to provide some more technical information later.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Went to take the car for a ride. Halfway down the drive forward momentum stops and the controller lit the error signal on the dash. Hum. Checking the LEDs on the hair ball it showed it was still closing the contractor but the error light was lit. Drug out the laptop to find the error. Couldn't get zilla config to connect. Resorted to hyper terminal and found it was "bad response from heap pedal" 1233 I think.a. Grr. Something wrong there. So pushed the car back and left it until I have more time and patience.

In other news my brother gave me an iPad. Great for reading the forum on. I'd like to use it to talk to the zilla. Haven't figured that part out yet.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Just got back from a short ev ride. Looks like my problem was the ground connection for the pedal. The zilla config worked perfect this time too.

Not sure when I'll get much else done on the project. It's gotten super hot. And with no garage now there is no shade.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

managed to create a wireless link from my ipad to the zilla. Seems to work quite nicely. Thread here if interested: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/ipad-and-zilla-dash-boardi-zilla-46777.html


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## got8 (Feb 3, 2010)

Hi Thaniel,
I need your help!
I am stuck on sourcing the right flywheel for my 96 328i sedan. I already have a new oem clutch kit, all I need is the flywheel. I think my oem due mass flywheel is bad, I can twist the two plates easily by hand.

So I ordered a ACT prolite it turns out to be a whole kit swap which I need to return. This shop told me it would work with the oem clutch.
I would like to use a light flywheel.
-which one are you using?
-Do you know any light weight flywheel would fit the oem clutch?
thanks,
got8


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

got8 said:


> -which one are you using?
> -Do you know any light weight flywheel would fit the oem clutch?
> thanks,
> got8


I'm using a 318 aftermarket aluminum flywheel with an OEM 318 clutch.

Sounds in this case you are wanting to reuse the clutch you have already. If I remember right the 328 has a dual mass flywheel and a larger clutch (larger than the 318 anyway). When looking many will say that the aluminum aftermarket flywheels won't go with the Oem clutch as the clutch hub is unsprung. For EV's I don't think that is an issue as when launching from a start the clutch does not have to be disengaged. And using an unsprung hub saves weight (so does using the smaller 318 clutch )

Trying to remember from my research but I think there is an aluminum aftermarket M5 flywheel that fits with the M3 clutch which may be the same size as the 328. I'll have to look things up again. I'll send you a PM with the info if I can find it.

Thaniel.


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## got8 (Feb 3, 2010)

I'll send you a PM with the info if I can find it.
Thaniel.[/quote said:


> Thanks for the PM.
> I just ordered the Fidanza, should have it in a couple days.
> I am thinking maybe I can further lighten the flywheel by taking out the starter gear ring and rebalance. that will bring the weight down to at least 11 lbs.
> will see when get it.
> ...


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

got8 said:


> maybe I can further lighten the flywheel by taking out the starter gear ring and rebalance.


On my flywheel the starter ring is bolted in. Probably pressed in a bit too. Should come off easily and be a significant bit of weight. I expect it'll be the same on yours. Haven't pulled the ring gear off mine yet as not sure where locally I can get it rebalanced.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Update:
My Hepa pedal error returned. Did more checking and there was an issue with the hairball. Sent it to the factory and it was diagnosed as a bad solder on a resister and it was fixed. 

8/21/10.
My kids and I had just finished removing a wire cattle fence from our property when we decided to re-install the Hairball back in the EV. Even though it was hot out we installed it as it only takes like 5 min. Whoo hoo it works again. We were all hot and sweaty from working with the fence but decided to take the hot car (from sitting in the sun and no AC) for a brief ride anyway just to celebrate it working again. So I dropped the hood just latching it on the catch not fully closed as I have to open the hood to get to the chargers right now.

Well we drove up and down the street and things were going so well we decided to drive some more. Well long story short we were driving and the hood flew open at about 50MPH and flattened itself on the windshield. Oh Crap  Bent the hood and worse yet cracked the windshield. Stupid me. Stupid supid. Guess we can share embarasing stories here too.

Smashed the hood back down and latched it properly. Undetered by my stupidity we decided to take the car down the street to get some icecream. Should have tracked how many miles we went in total. I'm thinking it was more than 10 but not sure. Only have 50 miles on the car under electric power. Not a lot but it's more than just driving around the block.

8/23/10 
My wife reminded me that she had never drove the car. So that evening after dusk we took the car for a drive in the neighborhood. Nice and cool after the sun went down. She seemed to enjoy the drive but it's somewhat anticlimatic as it drives so much like a regular car.

I have purchased some M3 springs and shocks and struts for the car. The suspension I have is worn out and horrible. It should drive much better once they are installed. I'm still running only on the front battery pack. I need to get back to working on things now that moving is mostly settled.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

8/28/10
Installed rear seatbelts into the EV. Now the car can seat and belt 5 people in again. The previous owner had switched the rear seat from a fold down seat, which has the belts attached to the back rest, to a fixed seat with a pass through which has the belts mounted on the back deck and didn't install the needed belts.

Installation wasn't too difficult. Nice to be able to take the whole family together. All 4 of us went for a ride around the neighborhood to celebrate. Did notice one neighbor looking at us funny as we drove around. Maybe they are starting to figure out this car is different 

P.S. for anyone reading this contemplating a swap. Buy a donor car that is in good repair and in good condition. Having to do all these repairs is maddening when there are other conversion things to be done. Also is a shame to be showing my wonderful project and giving rides with the all cosmetic flaws. Hindsight 20/20. I know.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

8/30/01
While looking for a car for my wife the thought of my poor condition project cars made me search for cheap newer BMW's. found one locally that had great interior and exterior but high miles. So we bought it. Paid $3950 which seemed an OK deal and it was near my house. Few things are near my house. Nearest BMW dealer 1.5 hours away Maybe it might turn into my EV one day? For now it'll have to be my wife's daily driver as the trans on her car is shot and her car is not worth fixing.

Pic of the car









Pic of it at home









Black car (closest) Is my LS1 (v8) swapped Car and my daily driver. The green newly purchased car, The blue EV, (car at the end is the maxima being replaced). The new car makes my 93's look even worse. Of course damaging the hood and windshield on the EV didn't help much. But does give me hope to think once the newer BMW's engine gives up I'll have it as a project car


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

September 6th,

SAVED MY FIRST 1/2 GALLON OF GAS!!
Needed to drive my Daugher to soccer practice. Decided to drive the EV even in it's half finished state (it is insured and licenced). A drive I would have normally done in a gas car. Trip was about 9.5 miles so figure saved burning 0.5 galllons of Gas in my other car. Car is too under powered though for all the hills we have here. Needs the other batteries badly. When I went to pick her up I took the V8 BMW. Aprox 350 hp and I didn't spare any of them. Man I love a fast car.

In other news I installed a set of M3 struts and springs on the front of the EV. Made handling soo much better. I have the rear springs and shocks to do next.

Thaniel


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## attaman (Feb 15, 2011)

Hi Thaniel,

It's one great project you got there!! hope you've finished it, and polished it up. How is it running now days?

We're converting an E46 model using CALB batteries, Netgain motor, evnetics controller, and our own opensource 10kW charger. It runs awesome, plenty of HP and torque. Check us out www.emotorwerks.com

Now we want to use the same power steering pump you used. That's why I wanted to ask you, which exactly high pressure hoses and fittings did you use on yours? I asked the toyota dealership, whole bunch of parts franchises, nobody could tell me "yes, this one will fit the MR2 2002 pump". So I'm lost somewhat.. hope you can advise.

All the best
Henry


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Not sure about the E46 but on my my E36 the bmw nut fitted the mr2 pump inlet. The difficulty is the bmw pipe has a male flare on the pump end and the mr2 pump needs a female flare. I cheated an ground off the male part and filed it into a concave shape then used a copper washer. Hasn't leaked in over 2 years of use but i admit its not ideal.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

This is what I used.
Must be steel for high pressure not aluminum.
P/S Rack adapter: 3276-004 Male 14 x 1.5mm Metric Concave Seat to 6AN Male, Steel

MR2 Pump Adapter: 3276-005 Male 16 x 1.5mm Metric Concave Seat to 6AN Male, Steel: MR2 Pump Adapter
3278-M14 14MM Aluminum Crush Washer 
3278-M16 16MM Aluminum Crush Washer

More info is in my blog. 2009 section. I'd link to it but I'm on my iPad at a pitzzaria in Rome at the moment.

My project. I have it driving but have not sorted out the bugs. Sold my house and moved mid project. Then had to build a garage at my new house. Same day I got that signed off I got my work permit to work in Sweden. So have been living in sweden now since august. So no progress on my project. Maybe next fall. Happy to help with questions as long as I can do it without the car


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## ARti (Oct 27, 2008)

So What's new with the eBimmer?


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

ARti said:


> So What's new with the eBimmer?


Hi ARti thank you for asking. I've seen some of your posts and wished I was as far as you. Humm.. Has been a long time since I updated the status. 

Current status on the EV.......really no change since last time. 

My initial momentem was killed when I moved to a new home. And then not having a garage did not help but still managed a few improvements. So finally got around to building a garage. Broke Ground April 2011









And finished it up August 2011









Ready to get serious on finishing the EV. But wait. Same month the garage is completed I was temporarily transfered to Europe for a year. So me and my family filled brand new garage with cars and left for Sweden. Ev is the one in the middle.









But we have seen lots of Europe while we are here:








Some where I have some Pictures of EV's in Italy and Norway that I ran accross.

So now I'm in month 14 of my 12 month assignment . Looks now like won't be back home until June 2013. I did come back for a few weeks this past sumer and drove the EV around again. It worked fine (still on half batteries) but I made a decision.

I want a nicer looking car!! Cracked windshield, bent hood, headliner falling down. Many other interior problems. I'm done with that. When I come back I'll be buying another car and swaping the parts into it. Thinking I'll go E46 BMW (1999-??) and very likely will do an autotrans (watched too many people struggle with shifting the Manual in the EV diffrent than a gas car). Hoping to leave out the torque converter though for improved efficency. Depending on what I find forsale the green BMW (to the right of the EV) may get the swap and I buy something else for my wife to drive.

But eventhough I'm not at home my EV project IS NOT DEAD . One of the problems with swaping an E46 is the instrument cluster is driven off Can Bus. So with some encouragement from folks on this forum I have taken on decoding the Can bus information and writing a program to drive the instrument cluster from some standard inputs.

My post on that topic is here:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1887229

And a youtube video of me driving a bare cluster i bought to play with
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqB4xqDC14c

Right now I have what should be an effective solution. Come next year at this time I plan to be driving a nicer, newer BMW EV!!!

Thaniel


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow!

Very cool.

Have a look at what Valery is doing. The company he runs specializes in EV E46's. I'm sure you two would have some common ground to share upon.

emotorwerks.com. 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Electric-Motor-Werks-EMW/177632228959506

He posts here as valerun.


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