# Volvo 140 Wagon conversion



## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hello from Dallas!

I am in possession of a 71 145 and a 70 145. Currently the 71 145 runs on the carb'd gas engine with a 4 speed and non-functioning overdrive. "Runs" is a very generous term.  The 70 is without a powertrain, and, as it has FAR less rust and body damage, is the primary candidate for the conversion. The title states the car weighs 2800.



> Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication


A few years ago I jumped into a traditional ICE rebuild on a volvo 240. I have essentially brought that car from a state of disrepair to near factory specs, with a bit of a stiffer suspension.

I have no fabrication skills whatsoever. I am, however, in touch with many welders and machinists... the very people who helped me accomplish the ICE rebuild.

I have a full set of tools, an engine hoist, floor jack and more.



> The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge)


40 miles/charge with some sort of air conditioning. I can stand and ENJOY the Texas heat, but the girlfriend (and others) prefer not to partake.

I saw ice being used in some thread, somewhere. This concept is fantastic. 



> What level of performance you are hoping to get


No faster than 45 mph. I intend to acquire a true 4-speed transmission (m40 for the volvo folks) from a friend of mine. I don't need that heavy overdrive unit.



> How much money you are willing to put into your project


A traditional carb'd pushrod engine rebuild came out to about $5k. I'm willing to take this to the bitter financial end , but no more than $10k would be a fair estimate.



> What parts you've already considered, if any.


Inertia switch and safety cut-off sound like good ideas. I have perused e-volks.com but am not too fond of the kit approach. I hope to also source quite a bit locally... A friend advised Otis Elevators may be a good place to start. Qualified machine shops are in abundance. LRR tires (or just a really skinny tire) is something I need to look into.. 14 and 15 inch wheels are already in my possession. 



















And it's current hide-out spot, somewhere in Dallas. 










I've been perusing quite a few threads on the forum, and have received surprisingly good feedback about the idea from the other forums I have posted about the conversion on. 

I operate a forklift at my job. It's lots of fun.  I am also a student of a renewable/sustainable energy department at my local community college. DC and AC circuits are likely going to be my choice of classes next semester, for obvious reasons.


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Did a bit more research. Looks like a DC approach will be the way to go with this rendition... The AC approach and regenerative braking will be saved for future projects.

I've also researched gear ratios of my prospective m40 transmission.

Gear.....Ratio..incl Rear axle
1st......3.13...12.8
2nd.....1.99...8.16
3rd.....1.36...5.57
4th.....1.00...4.10

However, it's complicated a bit by the fact I have two differentials at my disposal- one from an automatic car, one from a manual transmission car. I haven't determined if both are 4.10 final drive or if one of them could be 3.73 final drive... Still researching but I thought I'd throw my gearing considerations out there.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi. Curious question. could you ditch the overdrive on the auto and save some weight? A simple speed/load dependent auto changer and 3 gears would be brilliant. That's a nice light little car too, relative to Volvo standards. Should make a very fun car! And if you don't need more than 45mph you could run a single speed. THing is you'll soon want to venture onto more open roads and pick up the pace, so the 3spd seems best to me. a EVNetics Soliton Jr (600A) with a Warp 9 or better a Kostov 9/10" seems ideal DC setup in my opinion, but will eat alot of budget. Rebuild a forklift motor (see the sticky in motors section) with a home build Raptor(?) DIY controller (500A) would be nearly as good and alot les, giving alot of battery budget.

Plenty to think about when starting out now. Have a good browse of the build threads and of evalbum.


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Thanks for your response tylerwatts!



tylerwatts said:


> Hi. Curious question. could you ditch the overdrive on the auto and save some weight?


The automatic transmission the 70 (blue) 145 came with was sold with the non-running ICE attached. Well, rather, traded for a towing setup for my volvo 240 so that I could move the shell around with ease. 

The transmission I have is (supposedly) a m410, the upgraded version (heavy duty) of the m41. It is a manual 4-speed transmission with electronic overdrive (non functioning).

The transmission I aspire to trade the above, desirable-to-ICE-usage one for is a m40. That transmission is a 4-speed with no overdrive whatsoever- lighter and perfect for this application, it seems.



tylerwatts said:


> That's a nice light little car too, relative to Volvo standards. Should make a very fun car!


I was surprised when I saw that my 90 240 weighs in at 3200. That's a manual transmission, too...



tylerwatts said:


> a EVNetics Soliton Jr (600A) with a Warp 9 or better a Kostov 9/10" seems ideal DC setup in my opinion, but will eat alot of budget.


I keep seeing the "Warp 9" come up in the build threads I look at, but...



tylerwatts said:


> Rebuild a forklift motor (see the sticky in motors section) with a home build Raptor(?) DIY controller (500A) would be nearly as good and alot les, giving alot of battery budget.


This sounds like right up my alley. 

Any thoughts on the gearing of the rear differential? I think an auto-trans would be geared higher than a manual-trans, which would help with low speed acceleration but sacrifice top speed.


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Well, let's see what I can get out of this:

http://www.forkliftmotors.com/services.html

Right here in Dallas!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Arno. I mention Kostov as they handle higher rpms and voltages than Warp motors in general and weigh less. I don't see a need for 4 gears. None if you only want 45mph. I'd gear a Kostov for 4krpm at target cruise speed of 45mph giving over 60mph top speed if needed. This would need a high diff ratio though, with 14" wheels I'm guessing (not calculated, on phone) more than 5:1.

in this case a transWarp 9 linked to the rear axle with a beefy controller would give great starting torque and plenty top speed still.

I think you have your trans gearing backwards, autos are geared the other way since they don't stall, and usually have less gears. I've always liked the idea of an auto trans, 3 spd being optimum. I don't know Volvo's options well enough though, but if you fabricated new mounts you could use anything! The powerglide being a firm favorite on the forum! Do a quick search. Simplest is with a manual shifter (best in my opinion) and you can go 2 to 5 speed. But lik ei said 3 is plenty! Take you rapidly to 60mph!


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

the 140's have double A arms ( I think) unlike the 240's with struts , better handling with the A-arms . simpler electric system also . the weight is great and a strong body/ suspension .


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Arno. I mention Kostov as they handle higher rpms and voltages than Warp motors in general and weigh less. I don't see a need for 4 gears. None if you only want 45mph. I'd gear a Kostov for 4krpm at target cruise speed of 45mph giving over 60mph top speed if needed. This would need a high diff ratio though, with 14" wheels I'm guessing (not calculated, on phone) more than 5:1.
> 
> in this case a transWarp 9 linked to the rear axle with a beefy controller would give great starting torque and plenty top speed still.
> 
> I think you have your trans gearing backwards, autos are geared the other way since they don't stall, and usually have less gears. I've always liked the idea of an auto trans, 3 spd being optimum. I don't know Volvo's options well enough though, but if you fabricated new mounts you could use anything! The powerglide being a firm favorite on the forum! Do a quick search. Simplest is with a manual shifter (best in my opinion) and you can go 2 to 5 speed. But lik ei said 3 is plenty! Take you rapidly to 60mph!


tylerwatts I have zero interest in using an automatic transmission, so instead I am trying to minimize weight by acquiring the lightest (least amount of gears) manual transmission I can get to work with the stock Volvo transmission crossmember and driveshaft. This seems to be the m40, even with its cast iron case. 

I didn't like the idea of an electric conversion before I found out you could utilize a manual transmission and still have some resemblance of shifting gears. 



aeroscott said:


> the 140's have double A arms ( I think) unlike the 240's with struts , better handling with the A-arms . simpler electric system also . the weight is great and a strong body/ suspension .


All of the above and manual steering, manual windows and a whole bunch of style. 

I need to research clutch setups... mounting a standard flywheel directly to an electric motor as it is seems a little far fetched. I imagine there would have to be a significant amount of lightening.

I like the idea of motor-flywheel-clutch disc-pressure plate-transmission, since it would seemingly maintain a traditional clutch pedal actuation.

However, motor directly to transmission via coupler would vastly simplify getting the electric conversion moving.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Arnoror

Not to be a wet blanket but those Volvos look a bit tatty and heavy to me

You are going to put a lot of sweat and dollars into your conversion - is that car the one you want to do that to?
Is it worth getting something else and converting it?


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Duncan said:


> Hi Arnoror
> 
> Not to be a wet blanket but those Volvos look a bit tatty and heavy to me
> 
> ...


This is absolutely the right car for me. I stem from a Volvo family... volvo for life. 

It's a good solid platform and I have two of them. I thought, for about 15 minutes, that the VW bug down the street for sale would be more ideal... Well of course, but it's simply not the style _or the safety_ I am looking for.

Thanks for your comment!


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Read the last 20-30 pages of the forklift motor thread.

I like this post in particular:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=338669&postcount=1706

Mentioned this motor:

http://www.iwico.com/main/browse?manufacturer=GENERAL+ELECTRIC&prodline=&partno=5BT1344B159

 Lots of info to digest.


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

I'll probably incorporate this into the first post later on, but let's update the list with my current thoughts:



> *Essential Parts*
> 
> Donor Car- _1970 Volvo 145 $800_
> Batteries, Lead , Lithium, or Others- _Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)_
> ...


And a reiteration of cold, hard speculation:

-2800lbs (perhaps 4000lbs with everything installed and passengers (HUGE guess))
-45mph cruising speed, lots of stop lights and elevation changes.
-40 mile range


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Direct coupling is the way to go. I have found a local source for rebuilt/new forklift motors... including Warp 9 and Warp 11, apparently.

I just have to get back to them with exacting specifications. I know a motor larger than 9in in diameter, DC, series wound and NOT a pump motor are essentials... but hard specs like voltage I couldn't tell them.

About 1/3rd done with the engine bay.










Here's a before pic for reference: 










I envision a battery tray mounted parallel to the firewall in this picture. Right above the (black) sway bar and before the lower rubber radiator mount.










And for those curious of the wagon's mode of transportation sans-ICE, here's a pic of the tow brackets installed on a junk bumper. This setup has already proven itself through 50 miles.










And no, the purple ratchet straps are not structural nor are they they only method of attaching the brackets to the bumper.  Just makes me feel better, that's all.


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

Went to a North Texas Electric Auto Association (NTEAA) meet today.

1) Saw a bmw m5 conversion taking place. BIG motor. AC, power steering, vacuum pump, the whole shebang.
2) Found significant interest in my old Volvo becoming an EV. Praise received from what seemed like ten electrical engineers. :lol:
3) Was driven in, then DROVE, a fully electric 2001 VW golf. (THIS car). I'm hooked! :lol:
4) Began to evaluate where to spend the most to get the car off the ground. Priorities now are 1) batteries, 2) motor controller, then 3) motor. Considering a remanufactured forklift motor, which may come in sub-$1000 (compared to ~$2000 purpose built Warp 9 or 11 motor).

What a day. Time to go scrub the engine bay some more. :lol:


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## arnoroth661 (Feb 7, 2013)

'Gotta secure the car first, while the budget for shiny electric parts grows.

1) Convert 1970 145 to manual. Cut hole for bus-style shifter, evaluate clutch pedal assembly on 1971 145 and remove remnants (shifter linkage) of auto trans.
2) Establish working brakes in 1970 145, including parking brake. Likely involves salvaging working components from 1971 145.
3) Flush out fuel lines and tank in 1970 145. Consider salvaging more verified components from 1971 145.
4) Transfer b20/m41 from 1971 145 to 1970 145. Swap whatever components necessary to enable 1970 145 to be safety inspected, LEGAL and no longer requiring shady storage in backyards.








5) Strip 1971 145 of spare parts (I'm looking at you, suspension and steering...) and scrap rusty shell. Alternatively, wait 6 months trying to sell to maybe-kinda-sorta buyers, then scrap rusty shell.









Bring the 1970 145 alive with ye 'olde b20... enable it to be legally stored in my driveway without concerns for Code Compliance... continue development of electric powertrain while budget grows.


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## Tyn245GL (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi arnoroth661,

Great that you are converting a 1970 145!! This is a beautiful Volvo model.

I converted a 1993 245, I completed it a year ago. It has a 300 Volts AC drive train with M47 gearbox, clutch maintained. I am very happy with the result, and it performs very good.

The build thread is on this Forum.

The 145 and 245 are very similar in many aspects. So if you need any info about my build and/or suggestions for your build, let me know!

Martijn
Tyn245GL


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

I've a 145 with a blown engine. I want to convert to electric. I live on the flat and do't need to go over 25 mph., so my requirements are minimal. I only need 15 TO 20 Hp. All the electric motors I've found have way more hp than I need and as such are a waste of money. Any suggestions?


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

Tyn245GL said:


> Hi arnoroth661,
> 
> Great that you are converting a 1970 145!! This is a beautiful Volvo model.
> 
> ...





arnoroth661 said:


> tylerwatts I have zero interest in using an automatic transmission, so instead I am trying to minimize weight by acquiring the lightest (least amount of gears) manual transmission I can get to work with the stock Volvo transmission crossmember and driveshaft. This seems to be the m40, even with its cast iron case.
> 
> I didn't like the idea of an electric conversion before I found out you could utilize a manual transmission and still have some resemblance of shifting gears.
> 
> ...


I have bunches of motion control experience. The way I plan to handle this is with a manual transmission and switches for the gear you're in and up or down along with


arnoroth661 said:


> tylerwatts I have zero interest in using an automatic transmission, so instead I am trying to minimize weight by acquiring the lightest (least amount of gears) manual transmission I can get to work with the stock Volvo transmission crossmember and driveshaft. This seems to be the m40, even with its cast iron case.
> 
> I didn't like the idea of an electric conversion before I found out you could utilize a manual transmission and still have some resemblance of shifting gears.
> 
> ...


I have a 245 with a blown engine and have been planning on an electric conversion for some time. It seems to me that removing the engine but leaving the transmission and the bell housing would be simple, Then the motor could attack to a sturdy flat plate attached to the bell housing. The spline from a clutch disk could be attached to a hollow shaft with the connection to the electric motor on the other end. Something to replace the original engine motor mounts would be needed. I'm planning on driving this only in the city without going in the hills so lots of speed or power isnt needed.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Stephen the Obdurate said:


> I have bunches of motion control experience. The way I plan to handle this is with a manual transmission and switches for the gear you're in and up or down along with


Was there supposed to be more here? Perhaps "... along with controller logic to set the motor and input shaft speed to that required for the next gear"?


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

brian_ said:


> Was there supposed to be more here? Perhaps "... along with controller logic to set the motor and input shaft speed to that required for the next gear"?


I don't understand your comment. I'm trying to say I need to find a motor, but I don't need a controller as I will make my own , having motor control experience and high current electronic parts to make the driver/control.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

Tyn245GL said:


> Martijn
> Tyn245GL


I'd like to convert an old volvo I have. I'll use it in town on the flats so I don't need much power, at most a few hp. I have extensive microprocessor control experience and suitable drive IC's but I can't seem to find a suitable DC motor, Most are overkill and too expensive. Any ideas? If I get it running I'll be happy to share all the design info.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

tylerwatts said:


> Hi. Curious question. could you ditch the overdrive on the auto and save some weight? A simple speed/load dependent auto changer and 3 gears would be brilliant. That's a nice light little car too, relative to Volvo standards. Should make a very fun car! And if you don't need more than 45mph you could run a single speed. THing is you'll soon want to venture onto more open roads and pick up the pace, so the 3spd seems best to me. a EVNetics Soliton Jr (600A) with a Warp 9 or better a Kostov 9/10" seems ideal DC setup in my opinion, but will eat alot of budget. Rebuild a forklift motor (see the sticky in motors section) with a home build Raptor(?) DIY controller (500A) would be nearly as good and alot les, giving alot of battery budget.
> 
> Plenty to think about when starting out now. Have a good browse of the build threads and of evalbum.


On my volvo I believe the transmission output shaft extended into the overdrive. It's been awhile but overdrive transmissions were sought after. You could trade your xmission for a 4 speed and might even make some money.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Stephen the Obdurate said:


> I don't understand your comment. I'm trying to say I need to find a motor, but I don't need a controller as I will make my own , having motor control experience and high current electronic parts to make the driver/control.


Did you read my post? You had an incomplete sentence, which I showed in my quote:
​


Stephen the Obdurate said:


> The way I plan to handle this is with a manual transmission and switches for the gear you're in and up or down along with​​


I was asking what the rest of this sentence was intended to be. Your comment about building your own controller is interesting, but doesn't answer that.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

Tyn245GL said:


> Hi arnoroth661,
> 
> Great that you are converting a 1970 145!! This is a beautiful Volvo model.
> 
> ...





Tyn245GL said:


> Hi arnoroth661,
> 
> Great that you are converting a 1970 145!! This is a beautiful Volvo model.
> 
> ...


I looked at the website but I don't speak Swedish and I don't see how to translate it (I once saw an ap to do that but can't find it). I'd like to get more info on the conversion, alkong with sources of parts. I'm also unsure where to get a 300v power source.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

brian_ said:


> Did you read my post? You had an incomplete sentence, which I showed in my quote:
> ​
> I was asking what the rest of this sentence was intended to be. Your comment about building your own controller is interesting, but doesn't answer that.


now I'm not really sure. It could be a switch on the clutch. The basic problem is getting the motor speed match the speed of the drive train when shifting, something the driver does naturally but the controller wouldn't be aware of.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

Duncan said:


> Hi Arnoror
> 
> Not to be a wet blanket but those Volvos look a bit tatty and heavy to me
> 
> ...


Well I have a Volvo so I don't have to buy a car. The sale value of an old car with a blown engine isn't much. The Volvo is relatively easy to work on and I'm also tall and long legged and most cars are slightly uncomfortable (I've rented bunches of cars for work and they were uncomfortable).


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Stephen the Obdurate said:


> It could be a switch on the clutch. The basic problem is getting the motor speed match the speed of the drive train when shifting, something the driver does naturally but the controller wouldn't be aware of.


If you use a clutch, you don't need any automation at all - you shift as you would with an engine, letting the synchronizes match up the shaft speeds.
Some builders don't use a clutch, and don't include any automation; they can shift, but it's slow and hard on the synchronizers, especially when shifting down, due to the huge rotational inertia of the motor.
If you did automate control of the motor speed (which no one does) you wouldn't need a clutch and could shift easily by controlling the motor (and thus transmission input shaft) speed.

Drivers generally do not really match speeds when shifting. Shifting up the synchos do the work (although the driver can time the shifter movement suitably); when shifting down useful speed matching requires double-declutching, and most drivers don't even know what that means.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

Well, I got in the habit of double clutching to reduce the wear on a tired clutch. It's not hard. I'm planning to sense the motor and driveline speed so I casn match the speeds when shifting.


brian_ said:


> Did you read my post? You had an incomplete sentence, which I showed in my quote:
> ​
> I was asking what the rest of this sentence was intended to be. Your comment about building your own controller is interesting, but doesn't answer that.


Who cares? I am looking for an electric motor. My typing error isn't the point. This isn't high school english. If you have no information why bother?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Stephen the Obdurate said:


> Who cares? I am looking for an electric motor. My typing error isn't the point. This isn't high school english. If you have no information why bother?


You left a sentence unfinished and since I was genuinely interested in what you had to say I asked about it. First you didn't even read what I wrote so I had to explain what I already clearly asked, then you decided to attack me for criticizing something that I didn't even criticize, then attack me for not contributing to a discussion in which I had only constructively contributed. You really are deliberately difficult to deal with, aren't you?

Good luck with your project - you'll need it with your attitude.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

brian_ said:


> You left a sentence unfinished and since I was genuinely interested in what you had to say I asked about it. First you didn't even read what I wrote so I had to explain what I already clearly asked, then you decided to attack me for criticizing something that I didn't even criticize, then attack me for not contributing to a discussion in which I had only constructively contributed. You really are deliberately difficult to deal with, aren't you?
> 
> Good luck with your project - you'll need it with your attitude.


I guess I have a bad attitude. I was hoping for an answer to my qrestion. Silly me.


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## Stephen the Obdurate (Apr 18, 2021)

Stephen the Obdurate said:


> I guess I have a bad attitude. I was hoping for an answer to my qrestion. Silly me.


I won't have a clutch. Thsat would unnecessarily complicate matters. I can instead use the controller to match the speeds of the rear end to the motor when I change gears, I already will have a controller, why not use it? It will be much easier to attach the motor to the bell housing with a plate and make a shaft, using the spline from a clutch plate to attach to the transmission shaft.


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