# Renault Clio II year 2000 need to chose motor



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Hi Everyone!

This is our first post in this forum so let us introduce ourself s:
We are Pedro and Liliana from Portugal and we are going to convert a Renault Clio into electric.

We have been searching a lot about EV conversions but there are a lot of options ... 
To decide which motor to use I will need your help. 

The car is 990kg and we want it to have a range of 100km and maintain a speed of 100km.

We want an AC Motor (for regen, we live in a hilly area) but whit a battery pack of a maximum 160v nominal. (LifePo4 50 cell units max)

We are able to spend 15000 USD (motor, battery pack, and all the rest necessary). 50/50 - motor/battery pack

Can you help us to get a decision on the motor to use?


Thanks a lot,
Pedro and Liliana


----------



## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

I think that what you want out of the car (100km range, and 100km/h top speed) with the budget you have can be easily done.
Since you want an AC motor, and only ~50 cells, an AC-50 is one of the only solutions. Check it out..
http://www.evparts.com/products/str...8-to-96-volt-street-vehicle-motors/mt5615.htm
(when looking at an AC-50 you want the 650amp controller for better performance).
here are few vehicles that use similar set up:
http://evalbum.com/mtrbr/HPGC

if you notice one of the light porsches in the list uses 36 Skyenergy SE-180AHA batteries and gets ~160km range...I suppose you can use smaller cells if you wanted to.

PS. you might be able to get a better price on the motor and controller...the web page I posted is just to show what you should look for...


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

efan said:


> I think that what you want out of the car (100km range, and 100km/h top speed) with the budget you have can be easily done.
> Since you want an AC motor, and only ~50 cells, an AC-50 is one of the only solutions. Check it out..
> http://www.evparts.com/products/str...8-to-96-volt-street-vehicle-motors/mt5615.htm
> (when looking at an AC-50 you want the 650amp controller for better performance).
> ...


hi efan,
Thank you very much. We are going to chose the AC 50 motor. 
About batteries we dont´t know yet. We are undecided about Skyenergy (your opinion) or Hipower. The choise goes to the better price.
Your opinion was very important for us.

Thanks a lot,
Pedro e Liliana


----------



## peppp (May 9, 2011)

Olá Pedro,

I don't know the first thing about building EVs (still researching online atm), but I was curious... you're planning on importing from the US? Don't forget Alfandega is going to tax you to death (on a motor I would say 1/3rd of the original price + shipping).

Take a look at this shop :

http://shop.electro-vehicles.eu/shop/shop.asp

I'm not a client, but I noticed they do ship from Italy, so no Customs taxes and prolly lower shipping costs.

Best of luck for your project,

Joao
Porto, Portugal


----------



## drawler (May 1, 2011)

chois EU suplier for the parts

http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovevmotors-and-kits/

lower VAT and Shiping tax.

Use SepEx 9" Kostov motor on 120V (whit Regen )
http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmo...sepexdcmotorsforelectricvehicles/k9120vsepex/

Use Kelly Controler: (whit Regen )
Cheap http://kellycontroller.com/kdc1240324v-120v400aseparately-excited-with-regen-p-416.html
Or stronger http://kellycontroller.com/HSE.php

And TS 38 batteries 90Ah 
http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovevmotors-and-kits/lithiumbatteriesbmsandchargers/


----------



## peppp (May 9, 2011)

drawler said:


> chois EU suplier for the parts
> 
> http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovevmotors-and-kits/
> 
> ...


Doesn't Kostov ship from Russia and Kellycontroller.com from China?
They are both out of the European Union and heavily taxed


----------



## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

peppp said:


> Doesn't Kostov ship from Russia and Kellycontroller.com from China?
> They are both out of the European Union and heavily taxed


If you check the web page of Kostov motors, you will find out that they are from Bulgaria not Russia.


----------



## peppp (May 9, 2011)

efan said:


> If you check the web page of Kostov motors, you will find out that they are from Bulgaria not Russia.


nice 

glad you responded in this thread, i have one more supplier to choose from


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

peppp said:


> Olá Pedro,
> 
> I don't know the first thing about building EVs (still researching online atm), but I was curious... you're planning on importing from the US? Don't forget Alfandega is going to tax you to death (on a motor I would say 1/3rd of the original price + shipping).
> 
> ...


Olá João!

Thanks, we really are going to need luck. 

About the alfandega ports. Yes! they do tax a lot if cames from outside EU. I imported a Camera and they taxed me 800 euros for this . It was more cheaper than the motor. I'm afraid that they are going to tax me again. Does it append in other EU countries? 

But... If I ask to send as a gift do they tax the same? Or not? 
Thanks for the advice.



> Use SepEx 9" Kostov motor on 120V (whit Regen )
> http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmot...s/k9120vsepex/
> 
> Use Kelly Controler: (whit Regen )
> ...


Which one's the best? SepEx or AC?
SepEx is a DC motor?
Is there any example of the SepEx installation?



> i have one more supplier to choose from


About the Suppliers do you now where is the link for the forum European suppliers?

As about the regenerating break whit AC50. I heard that it doesn't regenerate so much.
Check out this video:
http://media.ev-tv.me/news070210-1280.mov

Thanks, 
Pedro e Liliana


----------



## peppp (May 9, 2011)

Hey Pedro and Liliana,

I started a new thread here .

If you find more suppliers make sure you keep that thread updated please


----------



## peppp (May 9, 2011)

Oh btw,

I'm planning on making a "low-budget" conversion once i sell my Nissan S13 drift toy.

Do you happen to work with electronics? I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who does, and my plan was to build/buy a Open Revolt ...

think you will find that one interesting.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

peppp said:


> Do you happen to work with electronics? I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who does, and my plan was to build/buy a Open Revolt ...


Hi peppp! 

I don't know too much of electronics. I think that buying an already made might be more secure than made from my hands. 

The only think I created was a small charger to convert the voltage (10v 2.5A) coming from a small solar panel to charge 7.2v 180mA battery for my electric RC car.
Here goes the link: 
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Solar-Battery-Charger-With-LM317T.htm
And the battery status monitor:
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Make-a-Simple-Battery-Status-Monitor.htm



> If you find more suppliers make sure you keep that thread updated please


I will add more suppliers from Portugal.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

I found this link on your forum whit a little more information about the difference of SepEx and AC:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/s-10-ac-motor-bldc-sepex-52636.html

And this link whit more information but is for motorcycles:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=1433.0

Does the SepEx is good for hilly areas?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Renault Clio II Buy List*

We would like to share the list of the necessary elements for this convertion:

*For motor:*
-Motor
-Cables
-Controller/Inverter
-Adaptive Plate
-PotBox
-Contactor
-Fuse
-Shunt
-VacumPump
-Power Steering
-DCDC Coverter
-Metal structure to support motor and components
-Plastic protection to put under the motor.
-Computer application for Controller Setup
-Ammeter
-Voltmeter
-Emergency Button
-Impact Button

*For Batteries:*
-Display
-Charger
-Terminals
-Cables
-Slave Boards
-Main Board
-Cells

I might be forgetting something... 

We are still collecting all the prices but for the total price we are archiving we have opt for the K9'' SepEx at 144v
Whit the HSE14101 Kelly controller (regen).


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II Buy List*



pedm said:


> *For Batteries:*
> -Display
> -Charger
> -Terminals
> ...


Hi,

Depending on your battery choice, you may have to get a Battery Management System (BMS).

Also, are you planning to have air conditioning?

Kind Regards
CrazyAl


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II Buy List*



CrazyAl said:


> Hi,
> 
> Depending on your battery choice, you may have to get a Battery Management System (BMS).
> 
> ...


We are choosing for Lifepo4.

The air condition will be window open or warm clothes.


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II Buy List*



pedm said:


> We are choosing for Lifepo4.
> 
> The air condition will be window open or warm clothes.


Hi,

LiFePO4 batteries need a battery management system (BMS).

In some jurisdictions, a functioning heater is required in a car for window demisting purposes. You may want to check with your local car registration or licensing authority if that is a requirement.

Kind Regards,
CrazyAl


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II Buy List*



CrazyAl said:


> In some jurisdictions, a functioning heater is required in a car for window demisting purposes. You may want to check with your local car registration or licensing authority if that is a requirement.


Hi,

Thanks a lot for the advice, I was forgetting that.


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II Buy List*



pedm said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the advice, I was forgetting that.


Hi,

I forgot to mention that you need to consider insurances for your electric vehicle conversion as well.

That's very important. Not only do you want to protect your car or vehicle, but you also want to cover yourself if you or your car causes an accident or damages other property or injures someone or is involved in an accident or incident. (ie. you want to cover yourself for liabilities).

You want to ensure you understand your insurance policy very well and what you need to tell your insurance company about your modifications and electric car conversion.

Kind Regards
CrazyAl


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 Kostov 9 and kelly HSE*

Hi,

Thank you for notifying about that. Hope that they aprove the conversion. 


For now we have been removing parts from the motor.

After disconecting the car from the baterry. We started to remove the gas, oil, water from the radiator.

We removed and disconected the tubes and some cabels. The radiator is now out as the vacuum manifold.

Next is exaust and the gas tank.

I was forgetting to say that we have decided for kostov 9, SepEX at 144v.

The controller is HSE 14601 from kellycontroller.

The batteries are going to be 100Ah lifepo4 from hipower, the pack will include charger, bms and cells. We migth still have to but the terminals. We will try to do our best to design the battery boxes in aluminium. One of the boxes will have 34 cells and is going to be under the truck, where was the spare tire. The second with the rest of the cells, on the front of the car where was the radiator there is space for more 15.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Hi everyone!
I have some images from the conversion.

I'm waiting for the EV parts. I will send images of the gear box.

Gas tank:









I am going to study how to couple the new motor with this disc:









Renault Clio II Motor:









Other parts:

























Batteries study: 









Best regards from Portugal!


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

New fotos from this convertion:


















































Gearbox, Kostov9'' and the design of the adapter plate. 

The coupler I was thinking of using one of those Lovejoy L100 or L075... But I'm not sure if it is a good choice or not. I have no experience whit it.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Why don't use the original clutch to connect motor and transmission?

Remove the rivets and the clutch pad and build a hub to connect the motor shaft on one side and the used clutch on the other.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Yabert said:


> Why don't use the original clutch to connect motor and transmission?
> 
> Remove the rivets and the clutch pad and build a hub to connect the motor shaft on one side and the used clutch on the other.


Thanks for the advice, yes I will try to use the existing clutch.

But the problem is that I don't know how to remove the rivets. Should I hit them on one side?

Also should I maintain the clutch springs?


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Below, some quick find picture of modify clutch.
I do the same for mine, but I don't have picture.

You can drill a rivet to pull it out.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Thanks it helps a lot! 

It seams more stronger than using the Lovejoy. 
Also the springs should soften the impacts.

I received the HSE today. It cames already assembled they have an HSE assembly.

But the problem is that It doesn't came whit the potbox .
So I have to order it from somewhere else. For the HSE they recomend 2 Throtle boxes. One for the Accelerator and other for the brake pedal (for regen). I was thinking about using a regen switch instead of the Pot-Box that would activate when someone presses the brake pedal it could send a 5v signal to the controller to start regen.

I saw people selling the Pot-Box as 0-5K and other 0-5V witch one is correct? I am a bit confused because at the Kelly Manual it seams the it is 0-5V signal and the pot should be >100K

Photos from the HSE assembly:


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Did anyone tried to create or build your own pot-box? Like the PB-6? There are some sliding potentiometers that might work with a spring. 
Does it works?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

I would like to share whit you the motor coupler to connect to the clutch disc:










Please if something is wrong give your advice.
Thanks.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 - Problem With Portuguese Customs House*

Hi guys,

I am having my first problem importing the HiPower batteries.


I am waiting for the reply from HiPower... but at this time is 9 PM in china. The problem is that it is at a warehouse...


Thanks


----------



## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

pedm said:


> Hi everyone!
> I have some images from the conversion.
> 
> I'm waiting for the EV parts. I will send images of the gear box.
> ...


Hi why can't I see none of your picture?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Sorry they moved to a new link:

http://pedm.net/downloads/EV/

New Image Motor coupled in the car:


----------



## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

pedm said:


> Sorry they moved to a new link:
> 
> http://pedm.net/downloads/EV/


Obrigado, agora ja veijo.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Received a reply from Hipower with the certificate.

Finally I have the batteries.


----------



## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

pedm said:


> Received a reply from Hipower with the certificate.
> 
> Finally I have the batteries.


Parabéns!


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

albano said:


> Parabéns!


Obrigado 

I am really happy, finally I can continue the conversion.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 batteries*

I wish an excellent 2012 to everyone!

Here goes new photos from my conversion:


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

Nice work.

Just wondering which Kostov Motor was eventually used?
Was it a Separately Excited Motor?
96V or 120V?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

CrazyAl said:


> Was it a Separately Excited Motor?
> 96V or 120V?


Thanks for your feedback!

It is a Separetely Excited Kostov 9'' at 120v.


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

pedm said:


> Thanks for your feedback!
> 
> It is a Separetely Excited Kostov 9'' at 120v.


Separately Excited is a good choice as it is easier to get a controller with regenerative braking functionality.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

CrazyAl said:


> Separately Excited is a good choice as it is easier to get a controller with regenerative braking functionality.


Yes, I am going to use the HSE14801 from the Kelly. 

The strange thing is that Kelly and Kostov don't use the same letters. 

In the Kelly wiring diagram they have that:
- Controller A goes to A1 in motor;
- Controller B+ to A2 in motor;
- Controller S1 to S1 in motor;
- Controller S2 to S2 in motor;

In Kostov motor I have: B1, A2, F1, F2.

Seams that: 
- Controller A goes to B1 in motor;
- Controller B+ goes to A2 in motor;
- Controller S1 to F1 in motor;
- Controller S2 to F2 in motor;

I should wire this way?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Now I am confused...

I wired F1 to Negative, B1 to Positive and A1 to F2, and it started spinning.


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

pedm said:


> Yes, I am going to use the HSE14801 from the Kelly.
> 
> The strange thing is that Kelly and Kostov don't use the same letters.
> 
> ...


I'm confused. I had a look at 
http://kellycontroller.com/mot/downloads/KellyHSRHSEUserManual.pdf for details on the Kelly Controller 

and

http://kostov-motors.com/files/productattachments/e2356097861d3afc3fceb6ef2af03693_K9120sepex.pdf for details on the motor and it raises more questions.

According to the Kelly Controller manual, the front panel for the Kelly Controller has B+, B-, M- and 2 other wires.

I'm assuming the 2 wires are S1 & S2? Could you please confirm?

You might want to ask Kelly Controller the following:


Is M- the same as A? (circuit diagram provided by Kelly does not make reference to M- and M- is what is on the panel).
You might want to send KellyController the diagram of the Kostov Motor and ask if M- (of controller) should connect to A2 of motor or not (noting that there is a thermo switch on motor near A2) and if B+ (of controller) should connect to B1 of motor or not.
According to Kostov diagram, + goes to B1 and - goes to A2 which is inconsistent with the documentation from Kelly Controller.
It might be best to have both Kelly Controller and Kostov Motors confirm the connections before powering up the controller.

Please let us know what the outcome is as the documentation is confusing.

Thanks


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

pedm said:


> Now I am confused...
> 
> I wired F1 to Negative, B1 to Positive and A1 to F2, and it started spinning.


What's A1? Which label is that?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

CrazyAl said:


> I'm assuming the 2 wires are S1 & S2? Could you please confirm?


Hi, I am sure that those are S1 & S2 from Kelly Controller HSE. I asked that before.



CrazyAl said:


> Is M- the same as A? (circuit diagram provided by Kelly does not make reference to M- and M- is what is on the panel).


Yes it is the same, the manual as a wrong letter, but when they refer to A in manual, they are referring to M- in controller.



CrazyAl said:


> What's A1? Which label is that?


Sorry, I was referring to A2 on Kostov motor.



CrazyAl said:


> You might want to send KellyController the diagram of the Kostov Motor and ask if M- (of controller) should connect to A2 of motor or not (noting that there is a thermo switch on motor near A2) and if B+ (of controller) should connect to B1 of motor or not.
> 
> According to Kostov diagram, + goes to B1 and - goes to A2 which is inconsistent with the documentation from Kelly Controller.It might be best to have both Kelly Controller and Kostov Motors confirm the connections before powering up the controller.


I am afraid to wire it in the wrong way, so I am going to contact Kelly to know how to wire the motor to the controller correctly. After that I'll update the post with news.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

Whow! What a quick reply from Kelly!

As they say probably it as to be connected in this way: 
- Controller B+ goes to A2 in motor 
- Controller M goes to B1 in motor 
- Controller S1 to F1 in motor 
- Controller S2 to F2 in motor 

Going to contact Kostov just to confirm.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 car rear batteries*

New images of the conversion:
These are the batteries that goes to car rear.


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 EV*

Hello everyone, I have good news,  See the images and video.

New images:

























Video of the first test out the garage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CdY1UFbRYE&feature=youtu.be

We are very happy  ! But there are still some adjustments to do...


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 speedometer and odometer*

What solutions did you find for converting the electric speedometer and odometer?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

__-_-_-__ said:


> Antes de mais parabens pela conversão
> 
> Congratz for the conversion. Do you known how to make it road legal? Because you need to take care of some things at IMTT and make some tests, that are not cheap, about 600€.


Hi!

Thanks for reminding me, but for now the car is still not prepared for use in public road.  

There are things to do:
- Speedometer and odometer are not working at all.
- The controller replacement.
And more, but this two are killing me... the others are easy to do.

I am still not sure if removing the ICE ECU I can make the Speedometer and odometer to work connecting directly the gearbox. And who to do this... Do I have to use the existing Speedometer and odometer? Can't I just replace it adding a new odometer with GPS control? Or something like that?

About the controller, I am still waiting for a reply from Kelly repairing my HSE:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72044&highlight=kelly+blown


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 EV*

Any plans to put insulating material between the cell posts and the top of the battery box?


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 EV*



Ziggythewiz said:


> Any plans to put insulating material between the cell posts and the top of the battery box?


Hi Ziggythewiz,

Yes. It will have a rubber screen over acrylic (pvc):


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 EV*

Looks great!


----------



## pedm (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Renault Clio II year 2000 EV*



Ziggythewiz said:


> Looks great!


Thanks!


----------



## EVClioii (Feb 28, 2021)

pedm said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> This is our first post in this forum so let us introduce ourself s:
> We are Pedro and Liliana from Portugal and we are going to convert a Renault Clio into electric.
> ...


Hi Pedro, Ilive in South Africa, have a Clio ii 2005, and wish to convert to ev for home to office, which is 80km away, twice weekly. How did your project go? I would appreciate it so much if you can share a few pointers. I am not sure which kit to use. Kind regards Jan


----------

