# Solectria AC90-C and DMOC445



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

RIPPERTON said:


> Ive found a AC90-C with DMOC445 controler for $4500 USD.
> reckon this is a good price ?.
> Does the AC90 really need a DMOC645 ?
> and what does the "-C" mean


Buy it ASAP.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> Buy it ASAP.


just did

Id like to thank the Lord for making me a crazy mofo and exceeding all possible limits of risk factors for the sake of chasing a dream.
My dream car that is.

I just payed $4228.00 USD (shipped) for this AC90 and DMOC445 controller .
This has no warranty and no test reports and if its fried?...too bad.
seller said it came from a local army R&D test lab.
Oh boy if this thing works its going to make the mother of all supercar E-Verts.
Already planned the mechanics...
havnt chosen the vehicle yet but must be 4x4. will connect the motor directly to the front diff flange and tail shaft down to the rear diff via a hydraulic multiplate clutch. No gearbox.
Motor will sit in the same place as the ICE transmission.
for commuting the clutch and rear wheels will be left disengaged so the front wheels will offer maximum regen performance and no need for a dif between front and rear axles.
the rear will be engaged for such moosecockery as drag racing and track driving and off road.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

figured the AC90 would go better in a small sports car as a 4x4 really could do with 2 motors bolted directly to each diff...
sooooooo I went and got my self a nice set of antlers
Porsche that is, 1981 928S manual 5 speed. $8500 with Boxter wheels, S4 calipers and tail, Momo steering wheel. 208k km
have found a few really tall differentials with ratios of 2.5:1 which will give a top speed of 240kmh at 5000rpm. 
14.5 seconds on the quarter in piston format.
he AC90 should fix that


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

probuild521 said:


> where did you find that motor at that price?



give you one guess
starts with E
ends in Bay

some dodgy machinery dealer in Singapore had it going for $7500 US !!!!!!
thats what they are new..almost
so I made him an offer.
Hes been very difficult about the shipping, taking a long time to get it going.
I told him Australian Customs & Quarantine are very strict about cleanliness and bugs and shit. He got it as far as his forwarders and they had a look at it and told him it would need to be even cleaner than that.
Anyway it is currently on a ship and heading for Sydney.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

looks like one of you muhrakins beat me to it.
but he made a mess of it and went DC urgh
went overboard with the lightning. removed the dash board and most of the interior trim. Thats a bit too extreme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ICCsJI2wdI


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Well here it is at my place.
Its a bloody monster, 500mm long plus shaft, 360mm diameter.
going to get that flange off and shorten the shaft.
The DMOC445 is not the right controller for it but it will do for the moment.
Will have to get a few electronic components replaced (circled in red)
Anyone know what amperage those IGBTs are good for ?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

RIPPERTON said:


> ...
> Will have to get a few electronic components replaced (circled in red)
> Anyone know what amperage those IGBTs are good for ?


Those components look like MOVs. Notice how ugly it is when a MOV fails? That's why they are often covered with heat-shrink tubing. I hate MOVs and never use them because of the collateral damage they cause when they are finally called upon to work. But this isn't really the time or place for my philosophy on handling overvoltages.

At any rate, based on the location of the failed MOVs on the board, it looks like they are for "protecting" the 12VDC input to the controller. You *might* be able to read a part number off of one if you slit the heat-shrink... probably not, though. If you just want to see if the controller powers up I would simply remove them.

The datasheet for the IGBT modules can be found at Powerex:

http://www.pwrx.com/pwrx/docs/cm400du-12f.pdf

Note that the IGBT and FWD current ratings are specified at a case temp of 25C. That makes them nominally useless. For a first pass approximation you can multiply current, voltage drop and junction-to-case thermal resistance for the diode - as it usually has the worse specs of the two components.

For this module, Vf = 2.6V max and Rth(j-c) = 0.18C/W. At 200A average current the diode junction temperature (Tj) will rise:

200 x 2.6 x 0.18 = 93.6C

above ambient. That is, the junction will be at 118.6C. You want to make sure Tj never exceeds 150C.

That limit is breached at 267A at 25C. However, this neglects the contribution from reverse recovery losses and that of both the switching and conduction losses of the IGBTs... It also ignores the minor benefit provided by all three freewheeling diodes taking some portion (though not the same portion) of the current from each IGBT.

So, I'd guess that the per-phase current has to be kept under 200A. Note that motors can often be wired in either a delta or wye (star) configuration and that this greatly affects the voltage/current relationship per phase.

Of course, the power rating of these modules depends enormously on how well they are kept cool. That said, maybe 20kW continuous and 40kW peak?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Great info Jeff, thanks
I though this controller was a bit small for this motor but it should get me going.
Then get a real controller custom made later on.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

RIPPERTON said:


> give you one guess
> starts with E
> ends in Bay
> 
> some dodgy machinery dealer in Singapore had it going for $7500 US !!!!!!


hah wow, i believe i got my AC42+DMOC445 from the same person!
Still haven't had a chance to see if it works or not but hopefully will by the end of the summer.

Good luck!


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

wenowhavepower said:


> hah wow, i believe i got my AC42+DMOC445 from the same person!
> Still haven't had a chance to see if it works or not but hopefully will by the end of the summer.
> 
> Good luck!


Alvin Lim...

AC42 ???
got any pics


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Here the auxiliary systems battery for the Porsche to run the lights heating, aircon, power steer pump, brake vac pump ect.
it will be topped up constantly from the main 400v battery through a DC/DC converter.
the original 4 CBR cells, the other 4 cells I added to make the Ford battery plus another 4 new cells to make a 30Ah pack.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

RIPPERTON said:


> Alvin Lim...
> 
> AC42 ???
> got any pics


Yeup, Alvin it is!
Don't have any pics yet but i'll see if i could take some tomorrow as have the AC42+AT1200 in the garage.


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> Alvin Lim...
> 
> AC42 ???
> got any pics


Hi RIPP, 

Got my AC60-B's (2 of them that is) from the same person in Singapore, Alvin Lim. Very nice, straightforward gentleman to deal with and quick deal!! Very happy with the purchase and excited to see how it will all hook-in???

What do you think, should i go, 1 rear wheel drive or hook both AC60B's, one front, one rear??? If i were to hook 1 Frt and 1 Rear, i must probably have a setup with a steering as well as diff at the front?? Right, likein BMWs, i guess... any othe cars have this similar setup you can think of?

Here are the "pornoo pics," if you like , for the wonderful beasts.... mind you, one of them comes with its own AT 1200 gearbox diff/gbox reduction casing, with a ratio of 10:1 and 12:1 selectable via push button controlled through the UMOC....

EnJoY!!!


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> Here the auxiliary systems battery for the Porsche to run the lights heating, aircon, power steer pump, brake vac pump ect.
> it will be topped up constantly from the main 400v battery through a DC/DC converter.
> the original 4 CBR cells, the other 4 cells I added to make the Ford battery plus another 4 new cells to make a 30Ah pack.


 Where... did you get these amazing cells from?? What sort of price where they at? $/Ah....or for 12V/30A setup you made here... very impressive!!

I'm in the mindset of some 560 VDC / 100Ah for my battery bank (~56kWh or so), so i'm sure these lovely units will set a nice deep hole through the pocket.

My motor's specs is 400VAC / 400A max, and even though i might get away with 30Ah packs or so (as they pump upto 625A like you mentioned), i still would love the 200+miles range target i'm aiming for.. thus the 100Ah bank i need for the build....

Ohhh Ohhh, by the way, did you build or buy the battery case (cell's holder setup you have in the pics??) If bought, was it separate cost or included with the price of cells?

Suggestions or feedback from you would be extremely helpful!


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

xp_lynx said:


> mind you, one of them comes with its own AT 1200 gearbox diff/gbox reduction casing, with a ratio of 10:1 and 12:1 selectable via push button controlled through the UMOC....


Hello, where did you obtain this information?
Is this something particular to your set-up? or do all AT 1200 have this feature?
I have tried obtaining a manual from Solectria/Azure Dynamics but apparently
they don't have any.

Thanks


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

wenowhavepower said:


> Hello, where did you obtain this information?
> Is this something particular to your set-up? or do all AT 1200 have this feature?
> Thanks


Not tried by me yet, to be honest. However quoted from here:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35225&highlight=1200+gearbox

Refer particularly to Post #6 by tomofreno.

Do use the same AT 1200... well, mine came as a "freebie"  as in the pic with the silver color AC-60B motor that i bought, quiet a nice free gift, don't you think ..... hope it does what it says and gets me to some 65mph at least or so.

Hope this helps!!


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

Ahh i see, i hope it's true as could not find any concrete information from Azure Dynamics.
I actually have the same one that's pictured in that thread, however, yours appears to
be a bit different.

Will hopefully have some time this week to take out of garage and take a picture.

Thanks!


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Alvin had $4500 of my money and would leave it 2 or 3 weeks without getting in touch with me as he was organizing the shipping.
very frustrating. I had to blow him up on 2 different occasions.

The BMI cells which arnt made anymore cost me $55AUD each from Mr LifeTech (Armin)
This was back in the early days of buying lithium and things have gotten cheaper...a bit. The BMI's are great cells though, very high quality.
They start the Porsche much better than the comparable lead acid because they have so much left over grunt during cranking the plugs are firing at full volts too.
I make the nylon end frames myself. Im developing them to mass produce 12v car batteries in 20Ah and 30Ah models.
Beauty about using the LifeTech's is the Headways are exactly the same size so I can make two different price tiers.


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> Alvin had $4500 of my money and would leave it 2 or 3 weeks without getting in touch with me as he was organizing the shipping. very frustrating. I had to blow him up on 2 different occasions.


Sorry to hear about that. $h!t happens sometimes you know. He might have been busy or so; as he is a real big-time seller of industrial and heavy machinery and similar items in Singapore, dealing in $1000s so our amounts are trivial, in terms of his business turnover . I had some USD $8K+ with him (on trust and off Ebay for a disount, etc...) and all emails were replied to in a timely manner and all was straight and spot on. I actually liked dealing with him a lot.



RIPPERTON said:


> The BMI cells which arnt made anymore cost me $55AUD each from Mr LifeTech (Armin). This was back in the early days of buying lithium and things have gotten cheaper...a bit. The BMI's are great cells though, very high quality.


Since you are making the frames (holding the batteries), are you making them for 'some firm' in particular?? LifeBatt, LifeTech, Headway, BMI or otherwise??? or is it for individuals like myself (made to order)?



RIPPERTON said:


> I make the nylon end frames myself. Im developing them to mass produce 12v car batteries in 20Ah and 30Ah models.
> Beauty about using the LifeTech's is the Headways are exactly the same size so I can make two different price tiers.


Great, sounds good. Let me know when the nylon end frames are ready for supplying in mass. I might want a whole bunch of them myself (around 47*3 = 141 units). Can you let me know the actual per unit cost and mass quantity cost? Obviously, at 141 units, i should be qualifying for mass, right .... that's so many 12V batteries...hehehe


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

Do you guys already have the wiring interface kit?
If so, from where did you get it ? or are you planning on making your own etc?

As i know we could get them from Azure Dynamics for $850 +shipping which is pretty steep for what it does. When EvComponents was up and running without issues, they were making the wiring interface kits of the UMOC controller (not much different from DMOC in terms of wiring) and were more than half price (not that they were selling them individually but if you needed one, they could have made one).

Thanks


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

wenowhavepower said:


> Do you guys already have the wiring interface kit?
> If so, from where did you get it ? or are you planning on making your own etc?
> 
> As i know we could get them from Azure Dynamics for $850 +shipping which is pretty steep for what it does. When EvComponents was up and running without issues, they were making the wiring interface kits of the UMOC controller (not much different from DMOC in terms of wiring) and were more than half price (not that they were selling them individually but if you needed one, they could have made one).
> ...


I share your thoughts and concerns... i'm dead interested in one myself, but like you said, am not going down that track given what it "simply" does for the price asked. Hope i didn't have to DIY it, but given its price (with no bargain or cheaper option), i'm probably forced down that track to DIY , and there goes another 1 millionth small tweak in this project to take care of myself


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

xp_lynx said:


> I share your thoughts and concerns... i'm dead interested in one myself, but like you said, am not going down that track given what it "simply" does for the price asked. Hope i didn't have to DIY it, but given its price (with no bargain or cheaper option), i'm probably forced down that track to DIY , and there goes another 1 millionth small tweak in this project to take care of myself


Indeed, same boat here.
Finally managed to take out the engine etc out of my car (need to update my thread) but now waiting to see what to do about the wiring interface kit. I was/am in contact with the person that used to make the kits @ EvComponents but responds are slow (can't blame him). Essentially this is the only thing holding me back from having something completed by the end of this summer (besides $$!).


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

wenowhavepower said:


> I was/am in contact with the person that used to make the kits @ EvComponents but responds are slow (can't blame him).


(if you don't mind me asking that is), who is it you are dealing with for the interface kit? Dave, Travis, Mike (ex EVComp)...?

Just would really like to get my hands on one if not two interface kits too (if you can raise that point on my behalf) as well with the person you're dealing with. I can send you the payment direct and you can forward it on my behalf or i can deal direct if you prefer.

This was, we are two customers (or three maybe counting me for two units) for the same thing, makes our chances better, or so i hope...


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

With Travis but he has not replied to my last e-mail (about a week ago).
I know that he is busy so just being patient.

He last mentioned that he may not have the time to make it but could provide assistance in making one.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

Well, finally been in contact with Travis!

Says he could/will do it but suggested to try to gather more buyers as it would make it cheaper for everyone. So you definitely want two ?

If any one else wants one, please let us know.

Thank you.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

In case any one is interested.

Travis will be offering the following for the DMOC controller;
Drive enable input
Charge interlock input
Forward/neutral/reverse switch
Power saver switch
Parking and reverse light relays outputs
Regen disable switch
Drive disable input
Potentiometer input ( Potentiometer not included)

(basically the 35-pin connector).

I could provide you with his e-mail via PM.

Thanks


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## xp_lynx (Aug 17, 2009)

wenowhavepower said:


> In case any one is interested.
> 
> Travis will be offering the following for the DMOC controller;
> Drive enable input
> ...


Sure, please do so. What sort of price tags are on them... and does quantity grant some sort of a discount somehow if we were to buy together in a group? I want 2 but was keen on finding out more if it makes a difference for different models.... meaning i have a DMOC 645 and a UMOC 445.... so will the wiring interface kit differ? Need to find out more. Thanks!


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

I have PMed you.

Thanks!


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

got a problem with the controller
we hooked it up to the motor and all necessary controls
and 260 volts of battery power and tried to boot it up
wouldnt boot
connected a pc and found out we need to configure it but to do that
need a cff file or something like that.
Asked Beth at AD and she said it was outdated and no longer had
support for that controller.
So can anyone here help ?


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## dexion (Aug 22, 2009)

Perhaps but not sure its worth a look. The yahoo solectria force group has files/firmware (i think cant check now) for that controller and or people that have programmed their own as replacements for their amc325. They are mating it to an ac15 but its just paramaters. Perhaps you can find what you need there and modify the file to suit your motor.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks will get on to them


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Cant find this forum
anyone got a link


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> Cant find this forum
> anyone got a link


http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/solectria_ev/


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

How does this Yahoo group work.
Its doesnt work like a forum
I basically sent an Email off into the blue yonder and
expect it to reach someone ?????????


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

RIPPERTON said:


> How does this Yahoo group work.
> Its doesnt work like a forum
> I basically sent an Email off into the blue yonder and
> expect it to reach someone ?????????


I never used. Just knew of site. You may need to become a member. Send your question to [email protected] www.wolftronix.com he might be able to help.


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## dexion (Aug 22, 2009)

wolf may help (the www isnt needed for the email address) but I was thinking of using the files section of the group. Especially the controller programing section.
Perhaps you would find something useful there. You need to become a member and then you can see the files.


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