# curtis 1238 fault



## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

You might don't believe me  this fault in curtis 1238 occurred while I mounted trailer hitch at the rear of the car. 

So it is little wonder what happened, the result is the car can't drive, also the curtis meter show '*********' 

As i understand the manual it is a watchdog fault, and i might be able to learn more about the fault if i connect the pc program 1314 to the curtis? 

Any suggestions about this error? (my car is a citroen c1 EVie)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRpNJ47jOIo

thanks 

/michael


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## Hippie Djohn (Oct 24, 2011)

Hej Michael

You probably need to load the software again.
Unfortunately these kind of faults often ends up with controller replacement. 

Are you sure you didn't short something related to the brake light which is controlled by the 1238 ?

Mvh.
Rasmus


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

uhh, i am not sure about the cables to the brake light, is a shortcut enough to 'kill' the controller? might be the reason? 

The curtis drive a relay as i remenber it, the relay then drive the brake bulbs. I did blow a fuse inside the car, either the brake or back light fuse, can't remember.

How can i find out if the curtis is dead, with the 1314 program ? 

/ michael


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

curtis shematic with connections in citroen c1 evie: http://techmind.dk/citroen-c1-evie-elbil/teknik/curtis-1238-motor-controller-forbindelser-i-citroen-c1-evie/


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## Hippie Djohn (Oct 24, 2011)

All I/O's except O/I GND (pin 7) should be protected.
If you are able to connect to the controller and set parameters, it should be ok.
Per has the SW if you need to reload it
If not, you are probably looking at a replacement.


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

oki, thanks. A replacement sounds expensive, cost for a new one is high. Is I/O gnd connected to vehicle gnd (acc 12 volt gnd)?

I think i will try open the box if i can't communicate with it. Maybe it's just some simple fault as a defect transistor, diode, or chip. Still, think it is strange it breaks down. What if i have a gnd issue in the car. The next curtis will break down also. 

Thanks for advice 

/michael


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## Hippie Djohn (Oct 24, 2011)

I/O gnd or pack ground should NEVER have any connection to vehicle/ chassis gnd.
It is hazardous, illegal and also creates a lot of problems! check that ! 

Let me know if you need a new controller, I can maybe help you out.

Good luck !


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## Hippie Djohn (Oct 24, 2011)

I/O gnd is only for sensors connected to the controller


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

okay, i will test this later, thanks. 

I hope i can fix my 1238, but i am interested in a price idea for at new/used replacement, could you pm me?


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

http://www.evwest.com/catalog/produ...ucts_id=103&osCsid=o22noet7p07jars0tkdi7dn5a5

It doesn't sound right that the whole controller gets fried because you overloaded a brake light... If this is even possible, Curtis should be the ones to mount a fuse panel to the front of the controller to prevent this from ever happening again.

But $2000 USD is quite a hit.


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## GoAhead92 (Dec 16, 2012)

My experience of seeing ******** is when I've disconnected the main power, then tried to drive before reconnecting it. Have you used a multi meter to confirm your pack voltage is making it to the controller?
I hope I don't sound rude to ask if the power is actually on, yet I've made this error more than once. Including a time when I moved some clutter near the button which accidentally pushed the emergency disconnect. 
I also believe ********* may show when a programmer is connected to the controller.


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

Caps18: i agree both  I might have found a cheaper 1238-6501 

GoAhead92: thanks for you suggestion  There is no emergency switch in the car, only the contactor (looks like this one: http://www.evsource.com/tls_albright.php)

The main contactor don't turn on, before a little later. Sometimes 10 sek, most times several minuttes, sometime 15 minnutes. I simply don't know what is wrong here. 

I am waiting for a programmer cale to 1314 pc prg, and hope i can readout the error code, an the find the thing causing this fault.

In this video you can see the ******** for a short time. Sometimes longer, sometimes ½ sec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT20oDqXBVg

The quistion is: what caan cause the curtis cintrolller to NOT turn on the contactor?

thanks

 michael


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## Hippie Djohn (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi Michael 

Many faults will result in main contactor = OFF

You need to get contact to the MC though the 1314 diagnostic SW and check for faults.
Also check your I/O's in the 1314 monitor menu and physically. 

How about the contactor, does it operate if you put power to it ?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Why not count the error flashes on the controller LED's? See what they tell you.


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## Hippie Djohn (Oct 24, 2011)

If the controller LED is solid red it is quite difficult to read flaches


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

I checked the contactor manually, i works as it is supposed to 

As you already know i have a defect CAN mosfet, and a zener diode, waiting for spareparts from ebay UK 



Hippie Djohn said:


> Hi Michael
> 
> Many faults will result in main contactor = OFF
> 
> ...


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

frodus said:


> Why not count the error flashes on the controller LED's? See what they tell you.


Thanks for suggestion, i have not succeed i finding out whats wrong, by counting blinking leds.

I found a defect CAN bus mosfet and defect zener inside the curtis 1238 controller.


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

To updated followers of this post, i am now working inside the curtis 1238-6501 controllers electronics, finding faults on the logic pcb.

A defect mosfet and zener is defect, and might be the reason why curtis protect it self, and display a solid red failure.

Right now waiting for spareparts.

You can check my website for more info and insights about what i find out.

I make some notes on a picture of the curtis logic pcb, about PINS and mosfets:

My website is in danish this link should make translation automatic

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftechmind.dk%2Fcitroen-c1-evie-elbil%2Fteknik%2Fcurtis-1238-6501-logic-pcb-pn36201c-mosfet-drivers-placement%2F&edit-text=


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

How did you open the 1238? I've a controller with bad capacitors, i was not able to open it..


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## technologymind (Jun 25, 2012)

The brass terminals are 'pressed' together, and not easy to remove. Mine are full of scratches now, but still i will work fine. You could make some kind of tool to pull the top part of the terminal away.

I could take some pictures showing how terminals are removed if it could be any Help.

Do your curtis tell You it is a capasitor fault? I am having trouble connecting to it, are You able to do that?

Also, i am searching for another defective curtis 1238, if You know anyone whith a defective Controller


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

This is really helpful. Could you please post a picture of the tool you made? 
My controller doesn't come on, it's dead. I'm assuming the capacitors have gone burst.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Great. I'll give a try next week.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Is this the controller in your car? Or is this the one, AIR, that got zapped with the 400V charger? The design of those brass bushings look like a miserable feature to keep people from taking the controller apart.

You might be able to find a washer, cut in half and cleaned up, to fit the slot in the bushings. This could be brazed or welded onto the end of a short, lengthwise cut, half section of tubing. The other end of the half section of tubing could have a nut brazed or welded on and a jacking bolt screwed into the nut to push the bushing off of the stud.

You may have to screw a set screw into the stud to protect the threads inside the stud from the jacking bolt. For the maximum strength of the tool, the ID of the tubing used in the tool needs to be close to the OD of the brass bushings.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Yes, this is the one that went bad due to 400v input. 
Technologymind, you are the first one who had opened it successfully. Kudos to you. This may be the beginning of the hacks for curtis controllers.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

67BGTEV said:


> Yes, this is the one that went bad due to 400v input.
> Technologymind, you are the first one who had opened it successfully. Kudos to you. This may be the beginning of the hacks for curtis controllers.


67BGTEV, If you're interested, I could make you the tool described in my last post-no charge. I would need the diameter of the brass bushing and the width of the slot in the bushing. It might be easier to measure the slot by measuring something that just fits in it - a washer or strips of metal, etc. Also needed is the thread pitch, diameter, and depth of the threaded hole in the brass stud ( it would be easier to measure the bolt that goes in it).

It might be worth a try. I'm just north of you in Oregon- please let me know.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Electro works, That's a great help. I'll measure it on Thursday and share the details.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Great. I also need the diameter of the bushing in the slot.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Technologymind, would you be able to measure of the share the of the bushings and the brass slit as well?


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

If you're still interested in the brass bushing removal tool, I'll need the dimensions called for in my previous posts. If someone else has this controller, maybe they can provide the measurements. Metric is fine. Tolerances of +/- 0.01" or 0.25mm are fine. The internal thread is probably a standard size: 1/4"-20, 5/16"-18, 3/8"-16, 6mm-1.0mm, 8mm-1.25mm, 10mm-1.50mm, etc. Use a bolt to check it.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

This info will help. But, I also need the size and pitch of the bolt that fits in the threaded hole and the minor diameter of the slot (groove).


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Here we go. Couldn't change the orientation of the pic, after I uploaded from my phone.
Its 21.04mm and 19.05mm


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## grip911 (Dec 14, 2011)

electro wrks said:


> If you're still interested in the brass bushing removal tool, I'll need the dimensions called for in my previous posts. If someone else has this controller, maybe they can provide the measurements. Metric is fine. Tolerances of +/- 0.01" or 0.25mm are fine. The internal thread is probably a standard size: 1/4"-20, 5/16"-18, 3/8"-16, 6mm-1.0mm, 8mm-1.25mm, 10mm-1.50mm, etc. Use a bolt to check it.


bolt is M8x1.25


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

OK. That looks like enough info to fab the puller. I'll try to get it done this weekend, if I don't get flooded out. Although it appears you're getting the brunt of this storm in your area, 67BGTEV.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

electro wrks said:


> OK. That looks like enough info to fab the puller. I'll try to get it done this weekend, if I don't get flooded out. Although it appears you're getting the brunt of this storm in your area, 67BGTEV.


Thanks ElectroWrks. Yes, its cold and windy, gonna be pouring..


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

67BGTEV,the puller is done. To fit, it may need some clean up with a file, Dremel tool, or die grinder. I hope it works! Send me a PM with your address, and I'll send it to you.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

electro wrks said:


> 67BGTEV,the puller is done. To fit, it may need some clean up with a file, Dremel tool, or die grinder. I hope it works! Send me a PM with your address, and I'll send it to you.


This is awesome EWrks. You are a craftsman and I love EV evangelists and Classic car enthusiasts.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

The puller shipped today. Let me know how it works out. Any feedback or suggestions for modifications would be appreciated.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Cool, will do..


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Got the puller. Will try it this evening and let you know.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

I guess I messed it up. I broke the tool, looks like tool didn't go all the way in. He are the pics.
EWrks, if you are open to it, I can ship you the controller so that you can test the tool yourself.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

No problems. This is why things are called prototypes. Was the lip only partially engaged in the slot when the jacking screw was tightened? Obviously, the washer (on the end) weld joint needs more penetration. I was concerned about it melting into the inside corner, where it would be tough to clean up.

If you want to send the controller and the tool to me, I'll see what I can do. My address is on the tool package or I can send it with a PM.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Shipped the controller and the proto tool today. You should receive it by Wednesday.


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## Patriotic Motors (Jun 20, 2011)

*Crispy 1238-7501*

I have a 1238-7501 that let go of most of it's magic smoke. Spyglass says it is a code 14, big help.  I used an external snap ring and a gear puller to open it up. Didn't scar the bushing up much at all.

The back of the power board is pretty smoked up, but most of the damage is in the lower right corner. Some of the FETs are lifted and some even have chunks missing. I knew it was bad when I could shake the controller and hear a rattle.

I am going to test how many FETs blew and see what it will cost to replace them all...unless someone has a 38345A FET board they don't need! 

I am really scratching my head as to why this detonated so bad. It came from my Wheego Whip and it ran flawlessly...until it didn't. I know the batteries are pretty shot, I have new ones waiting to go in but havn't had the time. Some times during hills and lower SOC there would be a whine from somewhere, but not when it suddenly quit. 

Let me know your thoughts.


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