# Alltrax controller



## Qmavam (Aug 17, 2008)

Tom Thomson said:


> The bad news is that my Alltrax exploded and the Porsche went home on a wrecker. The good news is that Alltrax is replacing it at no charge. Anyone can have a product failure; the difference is if they will stand behind it. Hooray for Alltrax.
> tommyt


Alltrax also replaced my controller after a failure, even though I didn't hide the fact that I thought I might have caused it to pop. Also, I bought the controller used from another individual.
Alltrax is a company that stands behind their products!

A second Hooray for Alltrax, Mike


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

They stand behind their products very well.
They replaced mine and upgraded it to boot.
I would surely buy from them again and highly recommend them.


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

I've got personal experience only with Sevcon and Alltrax controllers. I've had a Sevcon release the magic smoke on me, and it was under "non-stress" conditions. (In a gokart, which was on a test stand, with no throttle applied. It was a unit I bought used that was just faulty.)

Admittedly, I'm not Plasmaboy, the pilot of White Zombie, but I can't imagine how I could blow up my Alltrax. (Ok, it's just a gokart, but I *do* abuse it as much as possible.)

Can I ask the stupid question - aside from installation/implementation problems (like not having a precharge resistor or reversing the supply leads), how is a controller made to fail? I understand that Alltrax (and probably most other) controllers will monitor their own temperature, limit current output, etc in order to protect themselves. So what happens?

-Mark


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Mark
I don't know and neither does the Alltrax engineer. This happened on a cool day, after 3 miles of driving, light throttle and with 500 miles on the installation. The Alltrax guy thought maybe the contactor was jittering but the Albright has points as big as dinner plates and I was on a smooth road and the points show no signs of arcing. 
He confirmed that the unit has over-volt (90V) and over-temp (91C) protection.
I do not have a pre-charge resistor but it is my understanding that they are used to protect the contactor points rather than the capacitors.
tommyt


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## evcars (Mar 15, 2008)

Good they are replacing your controller. I'm interested in your low voltage car(assuming 72 volts). How does it run and what is the range? I would like to use an Alltrax controller for a local driving car. They seem like a good company and are very popular in the golf cart industry.


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Extreme;
The Porsche weighs almost 3200# and will never have good acceleration. If I stand on it, it will keep up with traffic but that takes a lot of amps. Also, if I keep my foot on the floor, it will top 60mph but again that takes amps. Range has been a bit of a disappointment - about 25 mi when I thought I would get 50. I understand that this is due to the "Peukert effect".
tommyt


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## champy (Nov 24, 2008)

As long as we're on this subject, I thought I'd weigh in and ask a question. I too, use an Alltrax in my 72v Geo Tracker conversion, and I've been nothing but pleased with the controller and the company. It has no high-pitched squeal like the Curtis's that people mention sometimes, its been easy to wire and it has never once felt hot. Occasionally, a bit warm, but never hot. My car's limitations are due to the low voltage (again, 72 volts), and I would really like to see Alltrax come out with a 144 volt controller to compete with the Curtis 1231C. Does anyone know if they have any plans in this direction, or are they forever going to remain peaked at 72? I'd love to hear a juicy rumor. . .


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Tom Thomson said:


> Mark
> 
> I do not have a pre-charge resistor but it is my understanding that they are used to protect the contactor points rather than the capacitors.


I would put one on, as it is for the controller.

Think about it......pre-charge..........points don't need pre-charging.........controllers do!


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

Coley
Let's do think about it. The controller has several capacitors which initially look like a dead short to the system. When the contactor points close, they will conduct all the amps the wiring can deliver until the capacitors are charged. Although this is a very short time, the contact points are grossly overloaded. The precharge resistor limits the draw and stretches it out over a longer time so that when the points close they do so in a no load condition.
tommyt


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

That is not the way that the manufacturer reasons the use of a pre-charge resister.
It charges the capacitors somewhat, so they don't take a full charge when the points of the contactor closes.

You are thinking more like the resister in line with the track changer in an old 8 track player, so that the aluminum signal strip doesn't fry instead of changing tracks.....

Points do more arcing on the opening cycle than the closing. 

If you are worried about arcing, then use condensers on them.......


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Sorry, Coley, but there really is no debate on why a pre-charge resistor is used: it saves the contacts on the contactor from closing into a dead short (the discharged capacitors inside of the controller). Refer to the box titled, "Electrical Load Life Ratings for Typical EV Applications" on page 2 of the datasheet for the popular EV200 contactor:

http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf

Other, ahem, "points":

A condenser is just another name, albeit an outdated one, for a capacitor. 

Arcing on contact opening only occurs when the load being switched is inductive. If the load is capacitive, as all motor controllers are (no matter the motor being driven - stepper, dc series, ac induction, PM synchronous, whatever) then there is no spark when the contact opens.

Now, please resume this otherwise entertaining thread wherein the OP, and others, are delighted to be stranded on the side of the road by their smoking _motor_ controller just as long as _the manufacturer_ doesn't give them any grief when exchanging it for a new one...


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## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> .
> 
> Now, please resume this otherwise entertaining thread wherein the OP, and others, are delighted to be stranded on the side of the road by their smoking Alltrax controller just as long as Alltrax doesn't give them any grief when exchanging it for a new one...


Dude, what's your beef with Altrax? I know that you’re trying to build and market your own controller, but tearing every other controller company down to build yours up is a bit transparent.

I've owned an Alltrax controller for over 3 years with no problems. I really wish they'd come up with a 144v 500-amp controller for my Camaro. I'd pay 2k for that in a heartbeat! Maybe I'll call on Monday to talk with them about it.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Camaro said:


> Dude, what's your beef with Altrax? I know that you’re trying to build and market your own controller, but tearing every other controller company down to build yours up is a bit transparent.
> ...


What's my beef with Alltrax? No beef with Alltrax in particular (or Kelly, or Logisystems, or Curtis, or Raptor, or Cafe Electric or any other company that makes or made controllers). I edited the post you referred to so it would be more clear I was making fun of the _owners_, not the controller.

That said, be careful when you want to bash someone for supposedly bashing someone else, Camaro, because the irony starts to pile up awfully fast.


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## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> That said, be careful when you want to bash someone for supposedly bashing someone else, Camaro, because the irony starts to pile up awfully fast.


Sure thing.


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## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, the person I talked with at Alltrax said that they don't have plans for a higher voltage controller. I guess they had one around 7 years ago, but stopped making it because of liability. That's bad news for the rest of us.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Now, please resume this otherwise entertaining thread wherein the OP, and others, are delighted to be stranded on the side of the road by their smoking _motor_ controller just as long as _the manufacturer_ doesn't give them any grief when exchanging it for a new one...


That merely reflects how low the bar has been set for controllers.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tom Thomson said:


> I do not have a pre-charge resistor but it is my understanding that they are used to protect the contactor points rather than the capacitors.
> tommyt


Are you using a diode?
From Alltrax:


> DIODE is a protection device across the
> contactor coil. The contactor coil is a magnetic
> device. When the contactor is turned off, the
> magnetic field collapses causing a “voltage
> ...


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## Tom Thomson (Jun 11, 2008)

jrp3
Yes I am, but that only protects the points of the device which drives the contactor coil, for instance your ignition switch or toggle switch. This circuit is isolated from the heavy loads imposed on the controller and its contactor points.
tommyt


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tom Thomson said:


> jrp3
> Yes I am, but that only protects the points of the device which drives the contactor coil, for instance your ignition switch or toggle switch.


Well according to Alltrax it's there to protect the controller.


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## mikle51 (Jan 9, 2009)

The DCX product line is used with SEPARATELY EXCITED Wound Motors, 
Commonly called SHUNT wound motors. These units drive golf cars, 
people movers, scissors lifts, boom trucks, Neighborhood electric vehicles, 
and a variety of other applications.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Well according to Alltrax it's there to protect the controller.


Different problems. The diode should be connected to the solenoid to protect the controller from the recoil that comes from the contactors solenoid when you disengage it. The resistor should be connected over the breaker in the contactor to protect the breaker/capacitor/battery pack/whatever.

My personal opinion is that you should have both.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Qer said:


> Different problems. The diode should be connected to the solenoid to protect the controller from the recoil that comes from the contactors solenoid when you disengage it.


 Right, I was responding to the person who claimed


> the diode only protects the points of the device which drives the contactor coil, for instance your ignition switch or toggle switch.





> The resistor should be connected over the breaker in the contactor to protect the breaker/capacitor/battery pack/whatever.
> 
> My personal opinion is that you should have both.


Agreed.


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## wingover (Feb 26, 2009)

*controller failure*

I have asked SEVCON in France about the major failure cause on their BLDC motor controllers. Answer was "condensators"...but he didn't gave me an official MTBF about it


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## rememberthemagic (10 mo ago)

Tom Thomson said:


> The bad news is that my Alltrax exploded and the Porsche went home on a wrecker. The good news is that Alltrax is replacing it at no charge. Anyone can have a product failure; the difference is if they will stand behind it. Hooray for Alltrax.
> tommyt



I wish I could say the same. I Have left 7 messages and 3 emails over the past 6 weeks and can't get an RMA or a phone call email returned. Are they still in business? They use to be the king in the industry, not sure I would choose them again based on my experience and wanted to see if this was an isolated case or we need to find another vendor to work with. Any recommendations on a replacement vendor for controllers?


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