# [EVDL] Timer recommendations



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Use a digital setback thermostat set really cold until midnight then really
hot from midnight till 7am. Find a 24 volt furnace relay to turn the AC
relay on. 

Just a thought.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Timer recommendations

Hi all,
I want to have my charger turn on/off based on the time of day, so I can
charge from 12am-7am. I have a good relay already that I can use. Any
recommendations for a timer to trip the relay on and off?

corbin


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Corbin,

You have to be careful how to do this type of operation on some chargers. 
Some charger require to have the current setting turn down to 0 amps before 
you turn it on otherwise you could damage it.

A open circuit to the batteries will also damage some chargers, so never use 
a DC contactor on the output side to the batteries unless you use a 
mechanical and electrical interlock to shut off the AC side first.

The sequence of turn on operation for my PFC charger is:

1. Turn on the battery box exhaust fan.
a. Fan sensor turns on power to a DC output control switch.

2. Turn on the DC output control switch which turns on the DC output
contactor between the battery charger and battery.
a. The DC output contactor provides power to a AC input control
switch on the main AC input line between the main AC plug and
battery charger.

3. Make sure that the current knob is turn to 0 amps.

4. Turn on the battery charger circuit breaker.

5. Turn up the current knob to the selected ampere.

To shut down the charger:

1. Turn down the current knob.

2. Turn off the charger circuit breaker.

3. Turn off the DC output contactor which then turns off the AC
input contactor.
4. Battery box exhaust fan continue to run for about 5 minutes to
purge the air in the box by use of a solid state Off Delay Relay
that controls a fan relay that is design for inductive fan loads.

Note: A Off Delay Relay starts it time out when the AC voltage
is remove from it.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "corbin dunn" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 12:57 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Timer recommendations


> Hi all,
> I want to have my charger turn on/off based on the time of day, so I can 
> charge from 12am-7am. I have a good relay already that I can use. Any 
> recommendations for a timer to trip the relay on and off?
>
> corbin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> 

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thank's Mark -- that's quite clever and sounds easy. I may end up using that solution.

-corbin



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > Use a digital setback thermostat set really cold until midnight then really
> > hot from midnight till 7am. Find a 24 volt furnace relay to turn the AC
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There's no shortage of pool pump timers, spa timer, outdoor lighting
timers that can do the job especially if you already have a good
relay. Here's one:
http://www.smarthome.com/48760/Intermatic-P1121-Portable-15-Amp-Outdoor-Timer-Heavy-Duty-Outdoor-Timer/p.aspx

This one will drive your charger directly
http://www.smarthome.com/48781/Intermatic-T101P3-SPST-Pool-Spa-Time-Switch-in-Plastic-Enclosure/p.aspx

If it's not mounted outdoors you could even use a simple plugin timer
to control your relay
http://discountsales.com/shop/module.php?module=show_product&id=1161208837
You can usually find these at Sprawlmart, Walgreens, CVS or even grocery stores.



On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:57 AM, corbin dunn


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I want to have my charger turn on/off based on the time of day, so I can charge from 12am-7am. I have a good relay already that I can use. Any recommendations for a timer to trip the relay on and off?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Awesome! This is going to be so much easier than I thought.

corbin



> Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> 
> > There's no shortage of pool pump timers, spa timer, outdoor lighting
> > timers that can do the job especially if you already have a good
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Roland,



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > Hello Corbin,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Corbin,

I got this info from Rich Rudman him self. Some one on this list several 
years ago had a problem with there PFC by not turning down the current knob 
before they turn it down.

I think if the battery pack is discharge to or below 50 SOC%, then there 
could be a high surge of current.

You may get by with it for a time. You could E-mail Rich to see what he 
recommends.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "corbin dunn" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Timer recommendations


> Hi Roland,
>
>


> Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Corbin,
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Im a building control guy. If you need a 24 volt relay send me a personal at stub at bellsouth dot net.
I've been retrofitting old ac vav's and piu's the past few weeks and can grab a few from the trash pile. Just pay shipping.

Stub
-- 
Sent from my DroidX with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

corbin dunn <[email protected]> wrote:

Thank's Mark -- that's quite clever and sounds easy. I may end up using that solution. -corbin


> Mark Grasser wrote: > Use a digital setback thermostat set really cold until midnight then really > hot from midnight till 7am. Find a 24 volt furnace relay to turn the AC > relay on. > > Just a thought. > > Sincerely, > Mark Grasser > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of corbin dunn > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 2:58 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: [EVDL] Timer recommendations > > Hi all, > I want to have my charger turn on/off based on the time of day, so I can > charge from 12am-7am. I have a good relay already that I can use. Any > recommendations for a timer to trip the relay on and off? > > corbin > > >_____________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only. > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected. > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/ > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > >_____________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only. > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected. > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/ > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev_____________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only. | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected. | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/ | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I used to just plug my PFC20 in as well, and one time it blew the output
fuse. Ever since, I have been plugging it in with the PFC20 circuit breaker
off, turning it on, and then turning the current knob up. Have not had any
problems since.

Maybe from the intermittent arcing that would occur when I plugged it in?

Travis Tyler
http://www.evalbum.com/3145


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 1:35 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Timer recommendations

Hi Roland,



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > Hello Corbin,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Corbin,

I have the Intermatic spa timer/relay that is the second link on Peter's
list. I bought it at ACE hardware. I have used it a couple times to turn on
my PFC30 charger at 15A charge current setting with no problem. E. Tischer
said several months ago that he had been using the same timer with his PFC30
with no problems (he posted a photo of the timer on diyelectriccar - he uses
less than 12A charge current I think). As far as I know he is still using
it. He pointed out that the charger current ramps up over a few seconds
after power is turned on, so he thought it should be safe. However, the
Manzanita manual clearly states to turn on power to the charger with the
switch on the front of the charger, and then adjust the current knob. I
emailed Rich about it several months ago but did not receive a response. I
called and talked to someone else there, who asked another guy and said it
was ok to turn it on with a timer with the current knob preset, that the
other guy had done it himself. I am still concerned that it may cause a
problem with the charger at some point, especially at higher charge
currents, so instead I turn the charger on just before I go to bed and set
the current so it is done within about an hour after I rise the next
morning. If you email Rich, I'd like to know his response.


--
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Travis Tyler wrote:
> 
> > I used to just plug my PFC20 in as well, and one time it blew the output
> > fuse. Ever since, I have been plugging it in with the PFC20 circuit breaker
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Tom,


> after power is turned on, so he thought it should be safe. However, the
> Manzanita manual clearly states to turn on power to the charger with the
> switch on the front of the charger, and then adjust the current knob. I

Thanks for the info! I didn't remember reading that, so I double checked. M=
y version of the manual says this:

"The AMPS knob allows the user to adjust how much current the charger will =
move. If the vehicle is always plugged in to the same circuit this shouldn=
=92t need any adjusting..."

I'll email Rich and see what he has to say.

Thanks again everyone!

corbin


> emailed Rich about it several months ago but did not receive a response. =
I
> called and talked to someone else there, who asked another guy and said it
> was ok to turn it on with a timer with the current knob preset, that the
> other guy had done it himself. I am still concerned that it may cause a
> problem with the charger at some point, especially at higher charge
> currents, so instead I turn the charger on just before I go to bed and set
> the current so it is done within about an hour after I rise the next
> morning. If you email Rich, I'd like to know his response.
> =

> =

> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413=
529.n4.nabble.com/Timer-recommendations-tp3421011p3421492.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Na=
bble.com.
> =

> _______________________________________________
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

yes, had a friend who blew his MMicro charger by having it cranked up
before turning on. order of events is most definitely turn down
variable knob, turn on charger using front switch, then turn up
variable knob.

this does make it difficult to use with a timer but I think not
messing up your expensive charger takes priority.



On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 1:08 PM, corbin dunn <[email protected]> w=
rote:
> Hi Tom,
>
>
>> after power is turned on, so he thought it should be safe. However, t=
he
>> Manzanita manual clearly states to turn on power to the charger with the
>> switch on the front of the charger, and then adjust the current knob. =
I
>
> Thanks for the info! I didn't remember reading that, so I double checked.=
My version of the manual says this:
>
> "The AMPS knob allows the user to adjust how much current the charger wil=
l move. If the vehicle is always plugged in to the same circuit this should=
n=92t need any adjusting..."
>
> I'll email Rich and see what he has to say.
>
> Thanks again everyone!
>
> corbin
>
>
>> emailed Rich about it several months ago but did not receive a response.=
I
>> called and talked to someone else there, who asked another guy and said =
it
>> was ok to turn it on with a timer with the current knob preset, that the
>> other guy had done it himself. I am still concerned that it may cause=
a
>> problem with the charger at some point, especially at higher charge
>> currents, so instead I turn the charger on just before I go to bed and s=
et
>> the current so it is done within about an hour after I rise the next
>> morning. If you email Rich, I'd like to know his response.
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.41=
3529.n4.nabble.com/Timer-recommendations-tp3421011p3421492.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at N=
abble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks J Bills -- that definitely sounds like a trend of events that has ca=
used the problem for people. But yeah, it is going to make night time autom=
atic charging a pain in the butt. Maybe Manzanita Micro can do something to=
the charger to fix this problem (like a ramp up of the charge current, whi=
ch might already happen, according to the email from tomw).

At the least, the manual should be updated. =


-corbin



> J Bills wrote:
> 
> > yes, had a friend who blew his MMicro charger by having it cranked up
> > before turning on. order of events is most definitely turn down
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is another way to have the current setting automatically adjust to th=
e =

preset maximum setting you want by having a modulator motor that adjust the =

current control (remove the knob) and install a bell crank on it.

The bell crank is connected to the modulator motor bell crank with a rod. =

The modulator motor has a dial on it to adjust or preset the amount of =

movement you want. Heating and A/C people install these units on air =

shutters which can be open to any movement by a manual control or =

automatically by the amount of heating or cooling.

A Heating and A/C supply co. has these units. I like the Honeywell units =

that works on 120/24 VAC. Some modulator motors have a built in circuit =

that allows a 120 vac input which has a 24 vac control circuit.

These units come in sizes that you can hold in your hand to very large unit=
s =

that are design to turn on large valves under pressure.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "corbin dunn" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Timer recommendations


Thanks J Bills -- that definitely sounds like a trend of events that has =

caused the problem for people. But yeah, it is going to make night time =

automatic charging a pain in the butt. Maybe Manzanita Micro can do =

something to the charger to fix this problem (like a ramp up of the charge =

current, which might already happen, according to the email from tomw).

At the least, the manual should be updated.

-corbin



> J Bills wrote:
> 
> > yes, had a friend who blew his MMicro charger by having it cranked up
> > before turning on. order of events is most definitely turn down
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 3 Apr 2011 at 13:35, corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > Maybe Manzanita Micro can do something to the charger to fix this
> > problem (like a ramp up of the charge current, which might already
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Typically "soft start" is used in chargers to eliminate al lot of these
problems. It could be as easy as an RC added to the control pot circuit.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 8:34 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Timer recommendations



> On 3 Apr 2011 at 13:35, corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > Maybe Manzanita Micro can do something to the charger to fix this
> > problem (like a ramp up of the charge current, which might already
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"But just flipping on the AC is exactly the same as turning on the breaker.
So no harm done." 

That first part is of course correct, but in my mind it doesn't address the
question of whether the current must be turned up AFTER the breaker (or AC)
is flipped on as my manual says, and I think Travis and Roland said. It
sounds like your method should be ok since the charger is inhibited from
putting out current until the bms powers up and disconnects pins 1 and 2 on
the Regbus. Seems similar to turning up the current knob after power is
turned on to the charger. I was hoping to hear him say whether turning on
power to the charger with the current knob turned up is or is not a problem.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Timer-recommendations-tp3421011p3430891.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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