# 90 mustang electric in progrees



## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

okay guys im new here.but i would def. like to get started on my electric build. this will be my first electric build but would like to reasonable price parts. i picked a mustang because i can have a good torque cap. out of a ford 8.8 .do electric car need higher gears or lower gears? im going to use the driveshaft or custom make one for the lenght. i want to use a coupler and have it carbonfiber to lose weight.i want to get 50+ miles.i dont want to use lead batteries.what is another alternative for batteries.i will be constructing my own electric motor.aluminum housing to dissipate the heat quickly.i will have the battery type in the back.im working on making most body parts on the car carbon fiber.also i have been think off using solar panels on the roof to pick up some electricty.also can i hook up a alternator to the motor so i can charge the batteries? i dont want to be stopping at a gas station and stealing there power outlet.i dont see why people put gear boxes or use transmission ,cant i just use the lever controller to accelerate and decelerate ? i am going to make my own a/c and see how much cubic's of car i can move. one last question who construct there own controller ? i would like to buy one.
please help me.lets work together and kill the oil consuming.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi evolution

*also can i hook up a alternator to the motor so i can charge the batteries? *

Unfortunately - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch! - NO 

Why are you using carbon fiber? - are you using pre-pregs? 

If you use a wet layup carbon fiber is heavier than S glass for the same strength 
And S Glass is cheaper! 

Read the wiki and have a look at the gallery - good luck and have fun


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

fiberglass is stronger than carbonfiber?? i was gonig to (wet) carbon the parts with a vacuum.
can i use the electrolysis system to produce electricity. i think the goverment limited us on the battery solution.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Evolution

The problem with carbon fiber in a wet lay-up is that it is difficult to wet the fibers with the resin (MUST be epoxy) - the result is that wet carbon fiber layups have more than the optimum amount of resin, 
This makes them heavier - to the extent than a good S-Glass layup is stronger for the same weight

_can i use the electrolysis system to produce electricity. _*
NO*_- _electrolysis uses electricity to produce hydrogen - at very low efficiency_

i think the goverment limited us on the battery solution_

WTF has government to do with batteries??


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

does that include with kevlar? I see, so fiberglass would be more stronger than carbon? what is a good controller to go with.why do people go with gearboxes ?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evolutioneng said:


> does that include with kevlar? I see, so fiberglass would be more stronger than carbon? what is a good controller to go with.why do people go with gearboxes ?


- the fiberglass may not be as STRONG or rigid as carbon/kevlar at a given weight, but may also be possible to construct lighter where strength is not key, and certainly cheaper, as a DIY project. perhaps great for body panels, absolutely NOT great for any part of a transmission/coupler.

- Soliton is probably the 'de facto' performance controller these days

- despite massive torque of electric motors from 0 rpm, if you want both speed off the line AND reasonable top speed, you need gears... electric motors, especially DC do have a 'redline' rpm.

...and you need to do a lot more reading to let go of the common misconceptions about alternators and solar panels being any help at all.


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

haha thank you for your knowledge.
if i gear up the rear end i would still need a gearbox to accommodate the torque from 0 rpm to top end?
what is your opinion on building my own electric dc motor using neodymium magnets?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evolutioneng said:


> haha thank you for your knowledge.
> if i gear up the rear end i would still need a gearbox to accommodate the torque from 0 rpm to top end?


my guess would be if you had enough torque to have 'quick performance' off the line AND a 80+mph top end in one gear, the torque would turn the car inside out.





evolutioneng said:


> what is your opinion on building my own electric dc motor using neodymium magnets?


well, there's a lot more to a motor than the magnets.... I think it would be crazy to spend a whole lot of time and money prototyping and optimizing a component that is available off the shelf.... unless you're racing and want that last 1% of performance. You would be better served working on good thermal management of the controller and motor with some EASY, effective, and efficient cooling.


...and heating/cooling batteries to keep them as close to 70 degF as possible.


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## flashburn (Jun 28, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> my guess would be if you had enough torque to have 'quick performance' off the line AND a 80+mph top end in one gear, the torque would turn the car inside out.


Really? because you might want to tell that to the tesla roadster.
It does 0-60 in under 4 seconds and 125mph in one gear.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

flashburn said:


> Really? because you might want to tell that to the tesla roadster.
> It does 0-60 in under 4 seconds and 125mph in one gear.


Tesla's motor and gearbox are custom manufactured for them, and redline at around 12,000 RPM. Most motors you can buy are rated to 7,000 RPM max, and most gearboxes call it quits at 6,000 RPM.


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## coulombKid (Jan 10, 2009)

Anaerin said:


> Tesla's motor and gearbox are custom manufactured for them, and redline at around 12,000 RPM. Most motors you can buy are rated to 7,000 RPM max, and most gearboxes call it quits at 6,000 RPM.


 If you look at eitscher's motor and the Tesla mill they both can turn some pretty good Revs.
The best motor on the 400 hertz site is a 12,000 RPM (@400 Hz) unit rated at 40 Hp continuous and up to 60 Hz in short bursts. To use this motor in my car I'd have to use their 4:1 reduction gear box between the motor and the clutch shaft and also come up with an AC drive capable of running north of 400 Hz. Part of the advantage of a super light 400 Hz aviation AC motor is taken away by the weight penalty of the extra gear reduction box. The motor is liquid cooled though.
http://www.400hertz.net/Products/ME-450.htm
For my little Yaris the combo is just about optimum for the 5-speed OEM gear-box. With that much available gearing the little motor would really shine.


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## flashburn (Jun 28, 2011)

Anaerin said:


> Tesla's motor and gearbox are custom manufactured for them, and redline at around 12,000 RPM. Most motors you can buy are rated to 7,000 RPM max, and most gearboxes call it quits at 6,000 RPM.


I know, it makes me want to buy a roadster.

AC propulsion states their engine has a 13k RPM redline. Doesn't their T-zero have only a single gear as well as faster 0-60 and higher top speed?


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

^ well im ready to start the project going.
what is a relatively easy to get a hold of and best bang for my dollar. im not trying to go a buy a 4g motor im in the 100-500 range. im using a 8.8 rear end with low gears since everyone else is doing so.the controller, im looking at one that a member has for sale a zilla.which im thinking of purchasing.but im worried when i have problems like if something burns out how much is it going to run me to repair.does anyone make or sell one. what also is hands down the best battery system.i would like a solar panel to charge a bit . i might just scratch the mustang and build my own chasis but still use the ford rear end.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

evolutioneng said:


> okay guys im new here.but i would def. like to get started on my electric build. this will be my first electric build but would like to reasonable price parts. i picked a mustang because i can have a good torque cap. out of a ford 8.8 .do electric car need higher gears or lower gears? im going to use the driveshaft or custom make one for the lenght. i want to use a coupler and have it carbonfiber to lose weight.i want to get 50+ miles.i dont want to use lead batteries.what is another alternative for batteries.i will be constructing my own electric motor.aluminum housing to dissipate the heat quickly.i will have the battery type in the back.im working on making most body parts on the car carbon fiber.also i have been think off using solar panels on the roof to pick up some electricty.also can i hook up a alternator to the motor so i can charge the batteries? i dont want to be stopping at a gas station and stealing spower outlet.i dont see why people put gear boxes or use transmission ,cant i just use the lever controller to accelerate and decelerate ? i am going to make my own a/c and see how much cubic's of car i can move. one last question who construct there own controller ? i would like to buy one.
> please help me.lets work together and kill the oil consuming.


First: You will need the largest gears you can fit in an 8.8 rear end. Which are 6.14's and they require a shaved pin. 

Second: Batteries: Lithiums are the other option

Third: You can hook up a alternator to charge the batteries but it will not charge efficiently remember it takes energy to make energy. If you are using it to charge say an accessory battery it would be great. 

Forth: An AC motor will turn high enough RPM to drive highway speed but DC motors when direct coupled are subjected to the laws of physics. The large rear end gears and coupled with the transmission will give you reasonable acceleration and top speed.


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

i will get started on the rear end.
i was looking at some batteries.what about of volts do i need to maintain my motor ,for 60 mph for 65 miles.
what is going to be around the cost to charge this system up.what alternator do you recommend i use with a pulley and a belt i assume.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

evolutioneng said:


> i will get started on the rear end.
> i was looking at some batteries.what about of volts do i need to maintain my motor ,for 60 mph for 65 miles.
> what is going to be around the cost to charge this system up.what alternator do you recommend i use with a pulley and a belt i assume.


My 3140 lbs 96V car did 80mph with a passenger in the car. Lithium batteries will give you excellent life and range. I increased my car voltage to 120v and was pleased so I would not recommend going lower than 96V.

I have found that nippondenso alternators work well.


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

how do you have your alternator hooked up .any pictures? what hp motor do you have? dc?


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

I have a Prestolite MTC 4001 Series Wound DC 20HP motor. I do not run a alternator on my electric car I just run one on my hot rod (65 Shelby GT 350). They are small, use less horse power, and put out the same power as the others.


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

i much did the battery pack run you?


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

I do not run lithium batteries. I cannot afford the up front cost for the size of lithium pack that I would require. I run lead acid. My first set of lead batteries lasted four years. I use 20 Interstate GC2XHDUTL, 6.00 Volt, Lead-Acid, Flooded.

Ok here are my calculations for your battery pack. 

250Wh/mile (Typical energy used while driving per mile) multiplied by distance you want to travel 65 miles= 16250 Watts

16250 Watts/pack voltage 120 Volts= 135.42 amp hours

135.42 Ah X 1.32 (unusable power) = 178.75 Ah cells

180 Ah cells will be your lowest cell that will work. Or parallel two packs of 100 Ah cells like many people do. Either way you go it costs the same amount of money. 

For what you are looking for will run about 11000 for lithium plus shipping. But they are supposed to last *up to 16 times longer* than FLA batteries. No one has owned them that long, so I will leave you with that info. 

I have talked to people on this forum that had purchased a 40 100ah cell for 5400.00 one year then the next year picked up another pack.


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

dang that is alot of money for the packs.have you heard of the ultra capacitors? it was cost are 1200 for the lead batteries but im sure it will be out of the question for weight.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

My lead pack cost me 96 dollars a battery this year. Five years ago they were 45 dollars a battery. 

I have heard of the ultra capacitor. I am not ready to jump on board yet. Its kinda like lithium. People say they should last a life time, but no one has lived that long. Maybe in a few years


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

i guess i will do a bike for now until the prices on the batteries go down. im not ready to spend 12,000 on batteries.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

evolutioneng said:


> i guess i will do a bike for now until the prices on the batteries go down. im not ready to spend 12,000 on batteries.


I am with you. Plus by then we will know if they will know if they will go the distance or not.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

??? $5k will get you 50 mile range, and *probably* last 75,000 miles right now. why wait? Do the math and figure $/mile. If Li works out anywhere near expectations, its a clear winner.....


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## evolutioneng (Jun 29, 2011)

i would of liked it to take me to work and back everyday from work.i dont want all those batteries and make mounts for then since later i would want to lithium packs. man i really wanted to make this happen but im no where close to buy 12k worth of batteries.do you think they will start to decrease price in a year or two? i would run a automatic transmission and have it tuned down right.every shift point.the battery price just disappoints me.


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