# [EVDL] Motor Mounting question



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion project using
NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount the motor with Neoprene
Isolation Washer Bushings
http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/mounts_springs/neoprene_isolators_hg.htm?d
=24 to reduce and hopefully eliminate vibration from the drivetrain.

I am mounting the front motor mount to a frame member with additional rubber
dampeners so I have two levels of vibration dampening. On the rear motor
mount I can add additional Neoprene Isolation Washer Bushings between two
frame members. Do you think this would be prudent or is one set of Neoprene
Isolation Washer Bushings good enough? If you are interested in details of
the project you can seem them at www.hrivnak.com. I have run the motor on
the garage floor and fortunately the ADC motor is running nice and smooth.

Thank you

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David,

I have mounted machines several different ways, one is the donut type mounts 
you show. I use two donuts mounted on a large steel tab that is welded to 
the frame. The steel tab is sandwich between two donuts where one donut is 
larger than the other, so the inside stubs through the metal and into each 
other.

I also use large rubber washers under large metal washers to further 
isolated the thru bolts.

Another method is just use the the same transmission rear mounts that are 
very soft poly red type. The top and bottom bolts are isolated from each 
other.

The best way is use a standard engine mount that was normally use in the 
same vehicle. These are a three piece type, where you have the platform 
that sets on the front cross member, a rubber damper insert and a engine 
side mount. This is what I have now.

To mount the engine side mount to the motor, you either drill and tapped the 
side of the motor which you specific to the manufacturer or motor shop where 
to install these bolt holes which are normally in the 1/2 x 16 bolt thread 
size which was done with my GE motors.

The Warp motors, I have a large 5 inch wide 10 gage clamp on band that also 
bridges the field bolts and also lays on the mounting housing. Then a thick 
steel flat bar is welded on the side of this band which is tapped that holds 
a standard engine mount.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


>
> I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion project 
> using
> NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount the motor with Neoprene
> Isolation Washer Bushings
> http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/mounts_springs/neoprene_isolators_hg.htm?d
> =24 to reduce and hopefully eliminate vibration from the drivetrain.
>
> I am mounting the front motor mount to a frame member with additional 
> rubber
> dampeners so I have two levels of vibration dampening. On the rear motor
> mount I can add additional Neoprene Isolation Washer Bushings between two
> frame members. Do you think this would be prudent or is one set of 
> Neoprene
> Isolation Washer Bushings good enough? If you are interested in details 
> of
> the project you can seem them at www.hrivnak.com. I have run the motor on
> the garage floor and fortunately the ADC motor is running nice and smooth.
>
> Thank you
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Hrivnak wrote:
> 
> > I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion
> > project using NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Did the donut mounts work well? I did not see an easy way to use a
transmission or motor mount as this motor will be between the transmission
and differential and act as part of the driveshaft when electricity is not
applied.

If the single donuts worked well then I will try that but if they were
marginal I will add the second set. Thank you. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question

Hello David,

I have mounted machines several different ways, one is the donut type mounts

you show. I use two donuts mounted on a large steel tab that is welded to 
the frame. The steel tab is sandwich between two donuts where one donut is 
larger than the other, so the inside stubs through the metal and into each 
other.

I also use large rubber washers under large metal washers to further 
isolated the thru bolts.

Another method is just use the the same transmission rear mounts that are 
very soft poly red type. The top and bottom bolts are isolated from each 
other.

The best way is use a standard engine mount that was normally use in the 
same vehicle. These are a three piece type, where you have the platform 
that sets on the front cross member, a rubber damper insert and a engine 
side mount. This is what I have now.

To mount the engine side mount to the motor, you either drill and tapped the

side of the motor which you specific to the manufacturer or motor shop where

to install these bolt holes which are normally in the 1/2 x 16 bolt thread 
size which was done with my GE motors.

The Warp motors, I have a large 5 inch wide 10 gage clamp on band that also 
bridges the field bolts and also lays on the mounting housing. Then a thick

steel flat bar is welded on the side of this band which is tapped that holds

a standard engine mount.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


>
> I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion project 
> using
> NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount the motor with Neoprene
> Isolation Washer Bushings
>
http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/mounts_springs/neoprene_isolators_hg.htm?d
> =24 to reduce and hopefully eliminate vibration from the drivetrain.
>
> I am mounting the front motor mount to a frame member with additional 
> rubber
> dampeners so I have two levels of vibration dampening. On the rear motor
> mount I can add additional Neoprene Isolation Washer Bushings between two
> frame members. Do you think this would be prudent or is one set of 
> Neoprene
> Isolation Washer Bushings good enough? If you are interested in details 
> of
> the project you can seem them at www.hrivnak.com. I have run the motor on
> the garage floor and fortunately the ADC motor is running nice and smooth.
>
> Thank you
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thank you Roger and I hope you are wrong about the U-joints. Both my
driveshaft and one I picked up at a junk yard have the u-joints in alignment
not offset 90 degrees. This jives with my reading about drivelines. As for
the 1/2" drop in the stubby driveshaft you may have a point. If I drop 3/4"
then I would mimic the drop in the current driveshaft that may be prudent
and I should be able to do that.

The rubber bushing should not be in shear but in compression as the washer
should be surrounding the bolt as it goes through the motor mounts. The
drawing needs updated as I will be using 8 bolt 4, on the front and 4 on the
rear to secure the motor.

You raise a good point on an alternative design and thank you for the link
to energy suspensions. I was having some trouble finding a good source of
isolators.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 7:28 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question



> David Hrivnak wrote:
> 
> > I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion
> > project using NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David,

Yes, they work for me. I had four triple sets or two triples on both sides 
of the motor. Each set includes from the bottom up, a three inch diameter 
washer, a bottom rubber donut insert into a 1.5 inch hole in the metal tab 
that is welded to the frame, a mid rubber donut that the stub inserts to 
the bottom donut stub, then the steel motor mount, a top donut on top of the 
motor mount and a steel washer, lock washer, nut and a long 1/2 inch grade 
8 bolt.

This makes three donuts where the steel stub and steel motor stub is 
separated between one donut with another donut at the top and bottom. I at 
first just use two donut, but the bolt head and nut was transmitting too 
much noise to the steel tabs, so I install another donut to separated the 
bolt head and nut from the steel tabls.

I still have these donut mounts that are mounted in four locations on my GMC 
accessory mount that is bolted down about 12 inches in front of the motor 
and the accessory unit is driven like a crank of a engine does.

I pick up all these items and other suspension units from a auto speed shop, 
which normally handles these items.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


> Did the donut mounts work well? I did not see an easy way to use a
> transmission or motor mount as this motor will be between the transmission
> and differential and act as part of the driveshaft when electricity is not
> applied.
>
> If the single donuts worked well then I will try that but if they were
> marginal I will add the second set. Thank you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:58 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
>
> Hello David,
>
> I have mounted machines several different ways, one is the donut type 
> mounts
>
> you show. I use two donuts mounted on a large steel tab that is welded to
> the frame. The steel tab is sandwich between two donuts where one donut 
> is
> larger than the other, so the inside stubs through the metal and into each
> other.
>
> I also use large rubber washers under large metal washers to further
> isolated the thru bolts.
>
> Another method is just use the the same transmission rear mounts that are
> very soft poly red type. The top and bottom bolts are isolated from each
> other.
>
> The best way is use a standard engine mount that was normally use in the
> same vehicle. These are a three piece type, where you have the platform
> that sets on the front cross member, a rubber damper insert and a engine
> side mount. This is what I have now.
>
> To mount the engine side mount to the motor, you either drill and tapped 
> the
>
> side of the motor which you specific to the manufacturer or motor shop 
> where
>
> to install these bolt holes which are normally in the 1/2 x 16 bolt thread
> size which was done with my GE motors.
>
> The Warp motors, I have a large 5 inch wide 10 gage clamp on band that 
> also
> bridges the field bolts and also lays on the mounting housing. Then a 
> thick
>
> steel flat bar is welded on the side of this band which is tapped that 
> holds
>
> a standard engine mount.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:31 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
>
>
> >
> > I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion project
> > using
> > NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount the motor with Neoprene
> > Isolation Washer Bushings
> >
> http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/mounts_springs/neoprene_isolators_hg.htm?d
> > =24 to reduce and hopefully eliminate vibration from the drivetrain.
> >
> > I am mounting the front motor mount to a frame member with additional
> > rubber
> > dampeners so I have two levels of vibration dampening. On the rear 
> > motor
> > mount I can add additional Neoprene Isolation Washer Bushings between 
> > two
> > frame members. Do you think this would be prudent or is one set of
> > Neoprene
> > Isolation Washer Bushings good enough? If you are interested in details
> > of
> > the project you can seem them at www.hrivnak.com. I have run the motor 
> > on
> > the garage floor and fortunately the ADC motor is running nice and 
> > smooth.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

By any chance do you have a web site or pictures of the motor mounting? I
searched for you on Google and found your El Camino and that is an
impressive car. But I did not see any detailed shots of the motor mounting.
I think I understand what you are doing but I wanted to be sure. If not no
problem and I am 90% sure I understand.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:13 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question

Hello David,

Yes, they work for me. I had four triple sets or two triples on both sides 
of the motor. Each set includes from the bottom up, a three inch diameter 
washer, a bottom rubber donut insert into a 1.5 inch hole in the metal tab 
that is welded to the frame, a mid rubber donut that the stub inserts to 
the bottom donut stub, then the steel motor mount, a top donut on top of the

motor mount and a steel washer, lock washer, nut and a long 1/2 inch grade 
8 bolt.

This makes three donuts where the steel stub and steel motor stub is 
separated between one donut with another donut at the top and bottom. I at 
first just use two donut, but the bolt head and nut was transmitting too 
much noise to the steel tabs, so I install another donut to separated the 
bolt head and nut from the steel tabls.

I still have these donut mounts that are mounted in four locations on my GMC

accessory mount that is bolted down about 12 inches in front of the motor 
and the accessory unit is driven like a crank of a engine does.

I pick up all these items and other suspension units from a auto speed shop,

which normally handles these items.

Roland


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David,

The pictures you see is what's there at the time. The motor was install in 
1980 and was only remove for maintenance just this summer. Its it now 
mounted in my maintenance test stand and its hard to see the bottom side of 
the motor.

I took a new set of pictures of the traction motor and transmission, but it 
does not show the motor mounts on it yet. I plan to remove the motor and 
transmission in the EV next year, and I will be able to complete all the new 
installation pictures at that time.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


> By any chance do you have a web site or pictures of the motor mounting? I
> searched for you on Google and found your El Camino and that is an
> impressive car. But I did not see any detailed shots of the motor 
> mounting.
> I think I understand what you are doing but I wanted to be sure. If not 
> no
> problem and I am 90% sure I understand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:13 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
>
> Hello David,
>
> Yes, they work for me. I had four triple sets or two triples on both 
> sides
> of the motor. Each set includes from the bottom up, a three inch diameter
> washer, a bottom rubber donut insert into a 1.5 inch hole in the metal tab
> that is welded to the frame, a mid rubber donut that the stub inserts to
> the bottom donut stub, then the steel motor mount, a top donut on top of 
> the
>
> motor mount and a steel washer, lock washer, nut and a long 1/2 inch 
> grade
> 8 bolt.
>
> This makes three donuts where the steel stub and steel motor stub is
> separated between one donut with another donut at the top and bottom. I 
> at
> first just use two donut, but the bolt head and nut was transmitting too
> much noise to the steel tabs, so I install another donut to separated the
> bolt head and nut from the steel tabls.
>
> I still have these donut mounts that are mounted in four locations on my 
> GMC
>
> accessory mount that is bolted down about 12 inches in front of the motor
> and the accessory unit is driven like a crank of a engine does.
>
> I pick up all these items and other suspension units from a auto speed 
> shop,
>
> which normally handles these items.
>
> Roland
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dave,
I'm using stock bayonet end style shock absorber bushings like this:
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9.8126

Here's a drawing of my motor mounts on page two of this drawing:
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/1978_Pinto_Drawings.pdf

and a photo so far:
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/DSCF5959

I'm going to put the same type bushings under the tranny tailshaft housing
between it and the stock tranny crossmember. The Turbo400 Shorty tailhousing
has different mating pattern than the stock one though. But as you see from
the pic I built a mockup out of wood that I'm going to use and see if I can
get a good driveline angle using the existing tranny mount. We'll see.
Depending how much flex I get on the bars between the motors I may have to
run a support from the tail end down to the frame. If I have to do that
I'll likely use the same bushings and set up as I'm planning on the front
mounts.

(Can anyone comment of the strength of those TH400 tailshaft housings? Can
I put all the weight of the rear of the motors plus the torque on that
housing without additional support on the rear of the motors?)

Mike Willmon

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Hrivnak
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:31 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion project using
NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount the motor with Neoprene
Isolation Washer Bushings
http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/mounts_springs/neoprene_isolators_hg.htm?d
=24 to reduce and hopefully eliminate vibration from the drivetrain.

I am mounting the front motor mount to a frame member with additional rubber
dampeners so I have two levels of vibration dampening. On the rear motor
mount I can add additional Neoprene Isolation Washer Bushings between two
frame members. Do you think this would be prudent or is one set of Neoprene
Isolation Washer Bushings good enough? If you are interested in details of
the project you can seem them at www.hrivnak.com. I have run the motor on
the garage floor and fortunately the ADC motor is running nice and smooth.

Thank you

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Man if you can figure out a way to cross donuts with ev's EVERYONE will 
want an ev.

Sorry I couldn't resist.



> David Hrivnak wrote:
> > Did the donut mounts work well? I did not see an easy way to use a
> > transmission or motor mount as this motor will be between the
> > transmission
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Man if you can figure out a way to cross donuts with ev's EVERYONE will 
want an ev.

Sorry I couldn't resist.



> David Hrivnak wrote:
> > Did the donut mounts work well? I did not see an easy way to use a
> > transmission or motor mount as this motor will be between the
> > transmission
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

We wait with much anticipation. Your dash looks looks like a fighter pilot cockpit.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wiench <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:56 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question

Hello David,

The pictures you see is what's there at the time. The motor was install in 
1980 and was only remove for maintenance just this summer. Its it now 
mounted in my maintenance test stand and its hard to see the bottom side of 
the motor.

I took a new set of pictures of the traction motor and transmission, but it 
does not show the motor mounts on it yet. I plan to remove the motor and 
transmission in the EV next year, and I will be able to complete all the new 
installation pictures at that time.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


> By any chance do you have a web site or pictures of the motor mounting? I
> searched for you on Google and found your El Camino and that is an
> impressive car. But I did not see any detailed shots of the motor 
> mounting.
> I think I understand what you are doing but I wanted to be sure. If not 
> no
> problem and I am 90% sure I understand.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:13 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
>
> Hello David,
>
> Yes, they work for me. I had four triple sets or two triples on both 
> sides
> of the motor. Each set includes from the bottom up, a three inch diameter
> washer, a bottom rubber donut insert into a 1.5 inch hole in the metal tab
> that is welded to the frame, a mid rubber donut that the stub inserts to
> the bottom donut stub, then the steel motor mount, a top donut on top of 
> the
>
> motor mount and a steel washer, lock washer, nut and a long 1/2 inch 
> grade
> 8 bolt.
>
> This makes three donuts where the steel stub and steel motor stub is
> separated between one donut with another donut at the top and bottom. I 
> at
> first just use two donut, but the bolt head and nut was transmitting too
> much noise to the steel tabs, so I install another donut to separated the
> bolt head and nut from the steel tabls.
>
> I still have these donut mounts that are mounted in four locations on my 
> GMC
>
> accessory mount that is bolted down about 12 inches in front of the motor
> and the accessory unit is driven like a crank of a engine does.
>
> I pick up all these items and other suspension units from a auto speed 
> shop,


[The entire original message is not included]

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Excellent idea as the parts are very commom and at a reasonable cost.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Willmon <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:43 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question

Dave,
I'm using stock bayonet end style shock absorber bushings like this:
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9.8126

Here's a drawing of my motor mounts on page two of this drawing:
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/1978_Pinto_Drawings.pdf

and a photo so far:
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/DSCF5959

I'm going to put the same type bushings under the tranny tailshaft housing
between it and the stock tranny crossmember. The Turbo400 Shorty tailhousing
has different mating pattern than the stock one though. But as you see from
the pic I built a mockup out of wood that I'm going to use and see if I can
get a good driveline angle using the existing tranny mount. We'll see.
Depending how much flex I get on the bars between the motors I may have to
run a support from the tail end down to the frame. If I have to do that
I'll likely use the same bushings and set up as I'm planning on the front
mounts.

(Can anyone comment of the strength of those TH400 tailshaft housings? Can
I put all the weight of the rear of the motors plus the torque on that
housing without additional support on the rear of the motors?)

Mike Willmon

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David Hrivnak
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:31 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


I hope to be soon mounting the motor for my hybrid conversion project using
NetGain's EMIS system. I was planning to mount the motor with Neoprene
Isolation Washer Bushings
http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/mounts_springs/neoprene_isolators_hg.htm?d
=24 to reduce and hopefully eliminate vibration from the drivetrain.

I am mounting the front motor mount to a frame member with additional rubber
dampeners so I have two levels of vibration dampening. On the rear motor
mount I can add additional Neoprene Isolation Washer Bushings between two
frame members. Do you think this would be prudent or is one set of Neoprene
Isolation Washer Bushings good enough? If you are interested in details of
the project you can seem them at www.hrivnak.com. I have run the motor on
the garage floor and fortunately the ADC motor is running nice and smooth.

Thank you

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David,

That's a old picture needing of up dating. Added five more gages and two 
more indicators since the 2002. Also under the hood, added a cooling system 
for the Zilla, which consist of a GM fill tank that has a pump plug into, 
that runs lines to another radiator with a cooling fan. Also there is now a 
glass door on the controller housing so I can see the Zilla status 
indicators.

Remove the standard GM power steering and install a electric unit and 
inplace of the space where the old power steering unit was, install two 
electric motors gang together for a peak 6 hp to drive all the accessories 
units you see there.

These motors only drive the accessories units while the main motor is under 
power, but when the main motor is not energized and the accelerator peddle 
is let up, this activates a transfer micro switch that turns off two 
contactors to these motors and turns on a electric clutch that connects the 
main motor pilot shaft to the accessory drive.

There is four Iota's DC-DC converter that is connected up in series-parallel 
for 29 volts to drive these motors. And then I replace the Cable Form 50 
amp onboard charger with a PFC-50 that raises out of one of the rear 
components on air struts.

The TH-400 modified transmission has the same rear mount you have and it 
held up with about 300 lbs of GE-11 motor. The cross mount that normally 
held the manual transmission will work for the automatic except the 
transmission cross mount is place back 6 inches. There are already drill 
holes in the frame side rails for automatic transmissions.

Another modification I did with the transmission cross mount is that I cut 
the two humps out of it where it was design to run over exhaust lines. I 
then shorten it up, so now I can bolt the cross mount to the transmission 
first while the transmission and motor is out of the vehicle. The motor and 
transmission is mounted on a custom made floor jack frame, where I can roll 
the whole works under the vehicle and just jack it up. The cross mount then 
bolts to the bottom of heavy steel plates with four grade 8 bolts that 
extends from the side frame rails.

I have to be careful on how much more stuff I can add on this rig, or it may 
send me into the past. If it does, than I can start over again.

Roland





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question


> We wait with much anticipation. Your dash looks looks like a fighter 
> pilot cockpit.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Wiench <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:56 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
>
> Hello David,
>
> The pictures you see is what's there at the time. The motor was install 
> in
> 1980 and was only remove for maintenance just this summer. Its it now
> mounted in my maintenance test stand and its hard to see the bottom side 
> of
> the motor.
>
> I took a new set of pictures of the traction motor and transmission, but 
> it
> does not show the motor mounts on it yet. I plan to remove the motor and
> transmission in the EV next year, and I will be able to complete all the 
> new
> installation pictures at that time.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Hrivnak" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
>
>
> > By any chance do you have a web site or pictures of the motor mounting? 
> > I
> > searched for you on Google and found your El Camino and that is an
> > impressive car. But I did not see any detailed shots of the motor
> > mounting.
> > I think I understand what you are doing but I wanted to be sure. If not
> > no
> > problem and I am 90% sure I understand.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Roland Wiench
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:13 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question
> >
> > Hello David,
> >
> > Yes, they work for me. I had four triple sets or two triples on both
> > sides
> > of the motor. Each set includes from the bottom up, a three inch 
> > diameter
> > washer, a bottom rubber donut insert into a 1.5 inch hole in the metal 
> > tab
> > that is welded to the frame, a mid rubber donut that the stub inserts 
> > to
> > the bottom donut stub, then the steel motor mount, a top donut on top of
> > the
> >
> > motor mount and a steel washer, lock washer, nut and a long 1/2 inch
> > grade
> > 8 bolt.
> >
> > This makes three donuts where the steel stub and steel motor stub is
> > separated between one donut with another donut at the top and bottom. I
> > at
> > first just use two donut, but the bolt head and nut was transmitting too
> > much noise to the steel tabs, so I install another donut to separated 
> > the
> > bolt head and nut from the steel tabls.
> >
> > I still have these donut mounts that are mounted in four locations on my
> > GMC
> >
> > accessory mount that is bolted down about 12 inches in front of the 
> > motor
> > and the accessory unit is driven like a crank of a engine does.
> >
> > I pick up all these items and other suspension units from a auto speed
> > shop,
>
>
> [The entire original message is not included]
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Hrivnak wrote:
> 
> > Thank you Roger and I hope you are wrong about the U-joints.
> > Both my driveshaft and one I picked up at a junk yard have
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm facing this issue as well. Getting new '66 Datsun engine mounts 
is not easy and the design is not really suitable anyway (unusual 
engine attachment.) I'm looking for help selecting suitable 
alternative motor mounts.

My thought was some type of simple to use motor (or tranny) mount 
from a common application (or at least readily available 
application.) Something designed to be attached to a plate with a 
stud sticking out of the opposite end would be very easy to use. I'm 
happy to check out lots other designs too  There are so many 
different cars and light trucks out there I'm not even sure how to 
effectively start searching for motor or transmission mounts that 
might work well.

Thanx,
Paul Gooch



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > Your pictures show the bushings installed such that the weight of
> > the motor and its torque will be applied sideways to the bushing
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>There are so many
> different cars and light trucks out there I'm not even sure how to
> effectively start searching for motor or transmission mounts that
> might work well.
> 
> Thanx,
> Paul Gooch

Hi Paul

What has worked well for me in the past (for many different types of parts too) is to go down to your local well-established NAPA store (where they have lots of paper catalogs) and get the friendly counter person to dig thru the motor/trans mount catalog with you.

They generally have a greyscale photo/drawing and some specs on each one. This can be an easy and effective way to find what you need.

This approach can be a goldmine for those of us that custom-build stuff from scratch.

You may also be able to find similar types of catalogs online but it is nice to be able to pull a part off the shelf and actually physically (instead of virtually) check it out.

HTH!
Roy

~~~~~~


Roy LeMeur

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Paul wrote:
> 
> > I'm facing this issue as well. Getting new '66 Datsun engine
> > mounts is not easy and the design is not really suitable
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> As I recall, the engine mounts in my late-60's Volvo 122 were blobs of rubber with studs protruding from each side, however I would not recommend using this style of mount because when the motor torque rips one stud or the other free of the rubber blob, it separates completely. More modern mounts are designed so that if the bonding between the rubber and metal bits fails, you may get metal to metal contact between the sides of the mount, but it cannot separate and leave the motor to flop around.

People with 60's ford pickups often put short chains from the motor
mount bolts on the frame to the bolts on the engine side, for this
exact reason... to hold the engine from going too wild when the rubber
broke.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> you wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Early EVs (1908-1933) did not torque couple thru the chassis to the rear end
as many cars today do. The motors were often direct mounted to a tube that
was mounted at the other end directly to the differential. But while this
eliminated any need for rotary torque or vibration damping to the chassis,
the motors were typically suspended from the sprung chassis at the motor's
front end. And vibration isolation was important. In most cases, the front
of these early EV motors were attached to a ball, which was spring-suspended
in a steel tube that was itself ball mounted to the frame. This arrangement
allowed limited spring-loaded up-down motion as well as low-friction
unsprung fore-aft and side-side motion of the motor (required due to being
on sprung chassis). As insurance, a metal strap connected to the chassis
well below the motor was in place to catch the motor should all of the above
fail.

-MT

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:43 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Mounting question

>
> As I recall, the engine mounts in my late-60's Volvo 122 were blobs of
rubber with studs protruding from each side, however I would not recommend
using this style of mount because when the motor torque rips one stud or the
other free of the rubber blob, it separates completely. More modern mounts
are designed so that if the bonding between the rubber and metal bits fails,
you may get metal to metal contact between the sides of the mount, but it
cannot separate and leave the motor to flop around.

People with 60's ford pickups often put short chains from the motor
mount bolts on the frame to the bolts on the engine side, for this
exact reason... to hold the engine from going too wild when the rubber
broke.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> R. Matt Milliron wrote:
> > motormount.net worked for me. They did seem to have everything and
> > pictures also. The site doesn't look like much on first glance. They
> > delivered very fast and were quick to respond to my e-mails.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

my 68 ford fairlane ripped a motor mount raising up the motor which in
that day had the effect of flooring it. the pedal dissapeared from my
foot and the car shot off. It was an exiting offramp.

I replaced them with ones called muscle-mounts in which they are made
from interlocking metal pieces held apart by rubber. so when it breaks
it just knocks around. I went thru all my cars and changed them after
that "near crash into cop giving someone a ticket event"

I just googled muscle mount and they are still around.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm putting this in a new tread because its become a bit fragmented.

>> What has worked well for me in the past (for many different types 
>> of parts too) is to go down to your local well-established NAPA 
>> store (where they have lots of paper catalogs) and get the 
>> friendly counter person to dig thru the motor/trans mount catalog 
>> with you.
>>
>> They generally have a greyscale photo/drawing and some specs on 
>> each one. This can be an easy and effective way to find what you 
>> need.
>>
>> This approach can be a goldmine for those of us that custom-build 
>> stuff from scratch.
>>
>> You may also be able to find similar types of catalogs online but 
>> it is nice to be able to pull a part off the shelf and actually 
>> physically (instead of virtually) check it out.

I've been looking into the motor mount issue some more. I haven't 
really found a good way to get pictures of different mounts, NAPA was 
only a little help. I have found the Chevette motor mounts (also used 
on a few S-10's and such) and an older Mopar mount (pickups and some 
big block vehicles) but neither are really what I need. I decided to 
check out the street rod angle.

I have found a mount that is basically the same as the Ford flathead 
V8 mount. Here are a couple of links to this mount:
<http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1199,971_Universal-Bolt-Through- 
Engine-Mount-Cushion-Kit.html>
<http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/shopnow/show_item.asp? 
product_id=7209314>

Using strictly aftermarket parts does concern me some - future 
availability. However this mount looks nearly the same as the 
flathead Ford V8 mount and street rodders generally have money to 
spend (you think EVs can be an expensive hobby  so I hope it would 
remain available. On the plus side, its designed to mount flat and it 
will resist pull through in the event of rubber failure. It should be 
easily able to take the torque I have in mind (about 160 ft.lb.)

I thought I would explain a bit about my motor mounting plans (for 
anybody still reading <g>.) The stock motor mounts (frame part) are 
shown here:
<http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/~paul-g/411/Image0012.jpg>
I'm planning to mount a piece of angle to the stock mounting pads 
(shown at the bottom of the image, facing away from the firewall) 
with a set of tabs attached to this angle (perhaps even using Ford 
model A frame adapter mounts.) I would then attach a front plate to 
the ADC 8 inch motor using the provided bolt holes in the brush end 
bell. The motor plate would have a pair of 90 degree angle 
attachments facing forward (the motor will not extend forward all the 
way to the stock mounts.) These tabs would pick up the top of the 
mounts . Like this:
<http://www.speedwaymotors.com/pl/1118,1199_Universal-Bolt-Through- 
Engine-Mount-Cushion-Kit.html?alt=1&path=700&img=720-9314-ART_L.JPG>
(The motor side of the adapter would rest over the stud.)

Is this a bad idea? Perhaps I failed to explain my idea well enough 
for you to understand it? I'm open to comments and criticism.

Paul Gooch

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