# [EVDL] adding A/C



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

<<< I'd like to add A/C to my conversion.
I have 2 trains of thought.

1 Run the original compressor with a separate DC motor.

2 Run a small "window" unit off an inverter.

1 is expensive, fairly heavy, and fairly complex.

2 is somewhat expensive, not too heavy, not too complex.

Most modern home units are pretty efficient, as are the inverters.
Not sure of the typical BTU output of an auto A/C system.
The prices I see for 3-5 HP motors are very high. So is
a rebuilt compressor. Your thoughts? >>>

Option 1 may be the easiest, and with a 90-130Vdc PM treadmill motor, 
not excessively heavy or difficult to implement (e.g.- eBay 
#200216216344, or 
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008041901245891&item=10-1783).

For option 2, there are "split ductless heatpumps" that can be rewired 
for DC (they convert AC into DC, then invert back to AC). 
Unfortunately, most are meant for 240Vac (only the smallest 9-9500Btu 
version takes 110Vac, e.g.- eBay #170203217305). Also, there is the 
question of how well such refrigerants as R410A will work in a vehicle 
- a stationary installation can use environmentally friendly 
refrigerants that may also be more touchy to work with, since the 
design doesn't have to include tolerance for vibration and the other 
extremes of on-the-road use.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What I have done in the installation of the A/C unit, is just run it off the 
pilot shaft of the main motor. The pulley on the motor should be the same 
size as it was on the ICE.

The belt drives a the A/C pump electric clutch, which in turns drives the 
pump. The electric clutch cycles on and off by a sensor that's turns on the 
electric clutch when the pressure is low and/or temperature, so it is not on 
all the time.

The electric clutch is control by 12 volts from the A/C relay which the A/C 
relay is in turn control by a 12 volt switch on the dash. It uses the 
existing heater blower in the vehicle.

In this 12 volt control line between the A/C 12 volt switch and the relay, I 
can switch in a selector switch that either chooses the normal operation of 
the A/C system or it switches it to either a micro switch on the accelerator 
pot or a small control relay coming off this micro switch.

You see, this micro switch not only controls other devices in the EV, so I 
have a bank of glass plug in relays mounted on a DIM rail which is something 
like a terminal strip, so I have to use another relay to isolated from the 
other circuits.

Normally in a A/C circuit, there is a separate No. 10 wire fuse at 30 amps 
that come from the battery which is in addition to other 12 volt accessory 
power.

Instead of having this A/C electric clutch coming on any time it wants too, 
I have it wait until I let up on the accelerator, which then activates the 
micro switch and in turn turns on the A/C relay and A/C pump at that time 
while the EV is in a coast down, thus no main battery power is use to drive 
the motor, but the motor is still driven by the mechanical motion of the 
vehicle.

In four years, since I added this A/C circuit, my A/C pump only has used the 
main motor power running by the main batteries, only while I had it service 
in the shop. There is a idle control selector switch which cuts in another 
5 kohm pot in series with the existing 5 kohm accelerator pot, which I can 
adjust that for any idle speed I want, which is normally use for testing and 
servicing the EV system, without having someone trying to hold the 
accelerator peddle during that time.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> <<< I'd like to add A/C to my conversion.
> I have 2 trains of thought.
>
> 1 Run the original compressor with a separate DC motor.
>
> 2 Run a small "window" unit off an inverter.
>
> 1 is expensive, fairly heavy, and fairly complex.
>
> 2 is somewhat expensive, not too heavy, not too complex.
>
> Most modern home units are pretty efficient, as are the inverters.
> Not sure of the typical BTU output of an auto A/C system.
> The prices I see for 3-5 HP motors are very high. So is
> a rebuilt compressor. Your thoughts? >>>
>
> Option 1 may be the easiest, and with a 90-130Vdc PM treadmill motor,
> not excessively heavy or difficult to implement (e.g.- eBay
> #200216216344, or
> http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008041901245891&item=10-1783).
>
> For option 2, there are "split ductless heatpumps" that can be rewired
> for DC (they convert AC into DC, then invert back to AC).
> Unfortunately, most are meant for 240Vac (only the smallest 9-9500Btu
> version takes 110Vac, e.g.- eBay #170203217305). Also, there is the
> question of how well such refrigerants as R410A will work in a vehicle
> - a stationary installation can use environmentally friendly
> refrigerants that may also be more touchy to work with, since the
> design doesn't have to include tolerance for vibration and the other
> extremes of on-the-road use.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> What I have done in the installation of the A/C unit, is just run it 
> off the pilot shaft of the main motor. The pulley on the motor 
> should be the same size as it was on the ICE.

Is this on a tail-shaft? Not all motors have them (or do you mean off 
the main shaft, which would make mating with the tranny pretty 
difficult!) Both of his stated options are independent of motor 
design, but more dependent on pack voltage.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If I did not have a main motor pilot shaft, then I would install a accessory 
pulley on the optional transmission drive shaft that connects the to the 
motor coupling directly to the transmission.

See this mod at http://go-ev.net/pics/035.html

Click images 32 to 34 to see different profiles of this coupler.

A optional pulley would be install on this shaft. This shaft normally fits 
a automatic, but can be mod to fit the splines of the input shaft of a 
manual transmission.

This unit is available from tci.com.

The only other thing a person can do, is to run a treadmill motor in the 3hp 
range using a treadmill motor control. It takes two of these motors gang 
together to be able to run three accessories units at the same time. 
Normally at full voltage of 90 vdc, the rpm is at 8000 rpm which is too 
much. I cut this down to 30 volts at 25 amps which is about 2000 rpm which 
is about right.

I still still the accelerator control system off the accelerator micro 
switch circuits, so these motors are not using power at the same time the 
main motor is using power, if you have to squeeze every bit of range out of 
the batteries.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> > What I have done in the installation of the A/C unit, is just run it
> > off the pilot shaft of the main motor. The pulley on the motor
> > should be the same size as it was on the ICE.
>
> Is this on a tail-shaft? Not all motors have them (or do you mean off
> the main shaft, which would make mating with the tranny pretty
> difficult!) Both of his stated options are independent of motor
> design, but more dependent on pack voltage.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > I'd like to add A/C to my conversion. I have 2 trains of thought.
> > 1. Run the original compressor with a separate DC motor.
> > 2. Run a small "window" unit off an inverter.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Option 3 ??
Use a hermetically sealed compressor designed for automotive. The 3
phase 500V Prius AC unit.

Now coming up with a small HV inverter with variable freq for
reasonable cost would be interesting but varing the compressor rpm based
on cooling load is the way you'd want to control it.

Older Automotive AC is primitive, some would say even crude. Compress
the gas and condense let expand thru orifice into the evaporator and
repeat. GM at least used an expansion valve to regulate the evaporator
saturation level. The compressors just run at whatever speed is avail
and the high pressure cutoff dis-engages the clutch when it hits
maximum. For a simple conversion replace with a dc fixed rpm motor and
stop and start it with a contactor driven off the high pressure
switch(in series with low pressure switch also)

I have worked on some process chillers that were in the 30 to 60 ton
range where the compressor looks like a v6. They all have a simple valve
called a "hot gas bypass" that dumps hot pressureized freon to the
suction side. This puts a false load on the compressor so it doesn't
have to cycle. This reduces the power a little by virtue of lowering
head pressure, but is a wasteful way to vary the evap load.

A better way is to control the rpm of the compressor in relation to the
evap pressure/temp. A prius AC unit will let us do that. Maybe this is
the place to start work on that 3 phase controller project.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A few more thoughts
Smallest AC unit for car is 1 TON. 
Prius uses special oil that can withstand the 500V motor operation,
the freon/oil mix flows thru the motor to cool it, so this is an
important detail.
Put a solar panel to an exhaust fan on your ev so it doesn't need
such a big load to cool it down after sitting in a parking lot.!
Close all the windows in a car and park it in the sun in Fresno,
California in the summer and it will hit 160 degrees F in under 1/2 hour.
A hermetically sealed unit like the prius or a small danfos unit can
be mounted anywhere, if hooking to the tail shaft is hard to get to.
The recent scroll compressors like in a 95+ GM are at least 2X more
efficient than the old rotary piston style, but the R134 refrigerant is
25% less capable than r12. That is why the condensers and
evaporators are larger on newer cars.
If a system isn't quiet cutting it, look into 'boosting'. Believe
it or not they add propane. gorilla way of haveing HC ac (HydroCarbon)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow Roland, that is awesome design! could you draw a wiring schematic scan
it and add it to one of your post?
I would never have thought of the coast down method. that's better than
regen braking.
The only thing I would do also in my project is duct all the air around the
drivers seat and maybe a bit for the passenger
because I gutted everything from the car I would only add back what I need
and by ducting all the air close to the driver the system would feel cooler,

I want to be cool, I don't need everything in the car cold to the touch just
me.
Same goes for heat
add a heating pad to your seat and a small unit with little computer fans
for window defogging
The stock ac/heat is heavy so a smaller after market unit is best to save
weight.
I still think that is "THE" most awesome tip I have heard.
Thanks



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > What I have done in the installation of the A/C unit, is just run it off
> > the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Randy,

I have this circuit that is inter mix with a large volume of circuitry 
prints, which includes, block, flow lines, terminal connections only 
specific to my vehicle.

These circuits are all on a Electronics Workbench program that only can be 
sent out to someone with this type of program.

All you have to do is find the 12 volt control wire on your dash Air 
Conditional switch that goes to the Air Condition Relay that should be 
mounted on the fire wall as follows:


Ignition A/C Dash SW Relay A/C Relay A/C Pump
Circuit Existing Clutch
__
S1 S2 0-------------0 0---------[__]
/ / | _|_ |
12v+---0----0/ 0-----0/ 0------[ ]----0------O[___] |
| coil O coil | |
| | | 12v-
| | 12v+ fused
| S3 |
| /|
0---------------------0/ 0 Micro Switch on Accelerator
| normally close when accelerator
S2 Selector switch | is not press
by passes micro |
for normal 0 To other devices that you want
operating service to control by the same micro
switch



Just insert the contacts of a 12 volt relay in series with this wire. You 
then can control the relay with a micro switch on the accelerator linkage.

Every time you let up on the accelerator it connects this wire from the A/C 
control switch on the dash to the relay, while your EV is coasting.

That's it for that for the A/C circuit.

Every other device that is driven off the pilot shaft of the main motor, 
will either run by the main motor with battery power or by the motor 
mechanical motion while you are coasting. No other electrical disconnects 
are needed.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> Wow Roland, that is awesome design! could you draw a wiring schematic 
> scan
> it and add it to one of your post?
> I would never have thought of the coast down method. that's better than
> regen braking.
> The only thing I would do also in my project is duct all the air around 
> the
> drivers seat and maybe a bit for the passenger
> because I gutted everything from the car I would only add back what I 
> need
> and by ducting all the air close to the driver the system would feel 
> cooler,
>
> I want to be cool, I don't need everything in the car cold to the touch 
> just
> me.
> Same goes for heat
> add a heating pad to your seat and a small unit with little computer fans
> for window defogging
> The stock ac/heat is heavy so a smaller after market unit is best to save
> weight.
> I still think that is "THE" most awesome tip I have heard.
> Thanks
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > What I have done in the installation of the A/C unit, is just run it off
> > > the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

hmmm I can sort it out, but remember I gutted the car, I only left the
lights, doors,and wiper intact.
the car had 70 pounds of guts under the dash pad. some will go back but just
the parts I need.
The whole run while coasting thing, has me really thinking about using ac
again, Oklahoma is brutal hot in summer.
thanks I will keep this post handy.
You might try a screen shot pasted on MS paint or even print a page then
scan it back in.
I was an anti-aircraft missile tech in the military , I have seen some far
out wiring blueprints.
thanks again



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Randy,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's ok, you can start from scratch. I ran all new wiring from terminal 
strips on the fire wall behind the dash. I remove all my wiring and ran 
from terminal strip in one compartment to another terminal strip in to 
another.

All my wiring diagrams are as if you open a panel and looking at a layout of 
the components and wire ways. All the devices on the drawings are block 
diagrams with number pin outs only. There is no runs of wires drawn on the 
print outs.

If one device has a No. 10 pin out, then another device some where in the 
vehicle that has a No. 10 pin out is on the same circuit.

There is only one line buss drawing with flare out's at the ends of cable 
runs only showing the number of label number wires at the end, which are 
separate drawings of cables lengths and number or wires per each.

If I do not look at it for years, it takes me a while to trace it out.

Take a look at the de-gutted job I did on my dash and console control. 
These dash panels hinge down as well as the console panels. All the 
instruments, switches and device unplug from a wiring harness using 
mini-Power Anderson gangable plug connectors.

There is a indicator light for every wire circuit between every device. 
This gives a instant visual circuit path status.

The terminal to terminal connection system allows me to add or remove 
equipment by just cross connecting to the terminal boards.

So there will be only prints of terminal blocks that are label and number 
with no wire runs.

There are prints of all the bank of switches with only pin out numbers on 
the back of these panels.

This method of layout is use for all devices. So if I go to a print of 
switches and look for the one that is label A/C and the pin outs are 50 and 
51, then this is the number 50 and 51 at the terminal strip, and 51 pin out 
at the A/C relay and 50 is cross connected to 4 which is 12+ source from the 
ignition circuit and so on. This is easier to read than having to trace to 
1000's of lines of wire drawings that may go from page to page.

If I have to work on a circuit, then I may do a quick sketch to see how this 
circuits is interconnected, just like the one I sent you.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> hmmm I can sort it out, but remember I gutted the car, I only left the
> lights, doors,and wiper intact.
> the car had 70 pounds of guts under the dash pad. some will go back but 
> just
> the parts I need.
> The whole run while coasting thing, has me really thinking about using ac
> again, Oklahoma is brutal hot in summer.
> thanks I will keep this post handy.
> You might try a screen shot pasted on MS paint or even print a page then
> scan it back in.
> I was an anti-aircraft missile tech in the military , I have seen some 
> far
> out wiring blueprints.
> thanks again
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Randy,
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The Soleus mini split heat pumps are very efficient, only 800W cooling or 
heating for 9000BTU. Only problem is a total weight of 110lb Ouch! I wonder 
what DC voltage their internal inverter runs on?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


>A few more thoughts
> Smallest AC unit for car is 1 TON.
> Prius uses special oil that can withstand the 500V motor operation,
> the freon/oil mix flows thru the motor to cool it, so this is an
> important detail.
> Put a solar panel to an exhaust fan on your ev so it doesn't need
> such a big load to cool it down after sitting in a parking lot.!
> Close all the windows in a car and park it in the sun in Fresno,
> California in the summer and it will hit 160 degrees F in under 1/2 hour.
> A hermetically sealed unit like the prius or a small danfos unit can
> be mounted anywhere, if hooking to the tail shaft is hard to get to.
> The recent scroll compressors like in a 95+ GM are at least 2X more
> efficient than the old rotary piston style, but the R134 refrigerant is
> 25% less capable than r12. That is why the condensers and
> evaporators are larger on newer cars.
> If a system isn't quiet cutting it, look into 'boosting'. Believe
> it or not they add propane. gorilla way of haveing HC ac (HydroCarbon)
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

For A/C I was thinking of something using an ice pack of some sort - I 
mean it only has to run the range of the car. Something like:

http://www.kooleraire.com/index.htm

- SteveS



> Al wrote:
> > The Soleus mini split heat pumps are very efficient, only 800W cooling or
> > heating for 9000BTU. Only problem is a total weight of 110lb Ouch! I wonder
> > what DC voltage their internal inverter runs on?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

nice system, but did you attach them? the prints that is.



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > That's ok, you can start from scratch. I ran all new wiring from terminal
> > strips on the fire wall behind the dash. I remove all my wiring and ran
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

For A/C I was thinking of something using an ice pack of some sort - I 
mean it only has to run the range of the car. Something like:

http://www.kooleraire.com/index.htm

- SteveS

>From what I've read about the fan over ice it doesn't work as well as it
appears to on the Flintstones. I made one using ice cooled water pumped by
a bilge pump through a heater core. I found it here:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Portable-12V-Air-Conditioner---Cheap-and-easy!/

It works pretty well it's just a bit of a pain to set up every trip.

-Paul K.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-adding-A-C-tp16780199p16801487.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

No, you do not attach the prints together like a schematic drawing. There 
is one section per page in a loose leaf folder, which that is up to two 
inches thick per folder. Just on the EV, I have a book shelf that is three 
feet wide and 8 feet high that is fill with these books, plus a file 
cabinet.

It will take me years to transfer much of this data into a storage disk 
using a electronics simulator program.

Industrial and some commercial drawings are done this way now. One section 
of a system may be in one book and it is further broke down and index to 
separate sub drawings on each page.

A builder and/or worker starts on page 1 to start the construction and 
proceeds to each page as the work is complete on the 1st page. A inspector 
signs off on the section that is completed before work starts on the next 
section.

Instructions and specifications is inserted in each section which is kept 
simple for the worker to understand, instead of thick volumes of 
specifications that the worker does not read anyway, which a supervisor or 
engineer only sees.

Even for some residential drawings, they may be only a one line drawing for 
a very skill electrical worker. If a 120 vac circuit is going to a device, 
then it is assume by a set of specifications and NEC codes, what wire type 
and size to use, what the ampere rating.

In some homes we keep all the receptacle circuits on one page per room. The 
the light circuit is another separate section as well as the communication, 
security, heating control system are all have there own separate sections.

If you try to overlay all these drawings on top of each other for a 
installation, you have too many overlapping lines and it will be hard to 
read.

My EV has a separate section for the all the lighting, another section for 
the heating, one for the A/C, another for the charger, one for the DC-DC 
converter, one for the DC-DC-AC inverter, several pages on over 60 switch 
connections, indicator sections, alarm sections, and the buss cable make up 
sections.

Then you have all the components and devices layout placements shown as a 
overview and then as a riser diagram (side view)

I spent about 5 years of planning, blue printing, drawings, layout, mockups, 
and may do certain sections over and over again even before I start on the 
main conversion.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> nice system, but did you attach them? the prints that is.
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > That's ok, you can start from scratch. I ran all new wiring from
> > > terminal
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 20 Apr 2008 at 19:59, Randy Eckert wrote:
> 
> > nice system, but did you attach them? the prints that is.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

makes me feel a bit like a hack, I already have spent years gathering parts,
donor car, more parts, research on batts, body mods using fiberglass over
foam, and I only have a few drawings and still have to sit down and plan all
the wiring.
This summer I will build the rear drive unit just like the XR-3 and attach
it to the 300zx, if I get that part done I will be happy. I will have a
rolling chassie, making the batts fit will be next, then wiring.
I will use a single 12volt batt for all lights power windows,radio, blowers,
fans heater/ac,this will be both plug in charge and solar charged,
For an inverter I was looking at those back up power for your pc units, pure
sine wave and with internal storage too
they are made to be charge from a house plug but if you tap into its batt
with more batts and charge that with the solar, I think it would be very
plug and play friendly.
any thoughts.....? I do not have the skills to reinvent many of my
subsystems. but compared cost and usefulness those computer back up power
units look attractive as inverters.
.



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > No, you do not attach the prints together like a schematic drawing. There
> > is one section per page in a loose leaf folder, which that is up to two
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Has anyone investigated the AirCon added to the REVA??? the car was designed in Alameda,CA sponsored by California taxpayers... now sold in India and Britain...If we can't get the car maybe we can get some parts!!!


I don't shop where I can't charge.

---------------------------------
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I toyed with the idea of building a Tear Drop trailer several years ago and this is one solution they use for heat and AC. The link below is to a reseller. I could not find the manufactures web site.

http://www.cedarwooddoghouses.com/petcool.html

It can heat and cool the EV, but is kind of large at 18" long and it takes 115V AC.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

that is awesome!, reminds me of building 777 boeing jets very top shelf
work.
I think I have been ruined building "Mad Max" style stock cars for circle
track racing for my brother.
You may scratch on some paper first or just dig in and start building with
it all in your head.
Your way is much better.
That is one reason I striped my 300zx down to the metal and restarted.
1.. saves weight
2. keeps it simple
3. invent as you go

This is my best working method, after 15 years in a machine/welding drive
line shop. a few years at Boeing a few years as an anti air craft missile
tech in the army.
I built custom gun safes for a year. Never made or used a blueprint just
built it in my head.

But I like using blue prints.
Wiring is one thing I like to draw out first.
My skills on paper and cad drawing programs is just too weak.
I can do top,side ,front veiws, but it stops there.
While in the winter months I do most of my reading and paper planing so by
summer I can just start building.
thanks for all the help, this group is by far the best.



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > No, you do not attach the prints together like a schematic drawing. There
> > is one section per page in a loose leaf folder, which that is up to two
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Randy,

You are going about the right speed on your conversion. I find if I go slow 
with the build, I found that I can change something before I finalize it.

One thing about DC-DC converters, like the IOTA ones I am using. They can 
be series and parallel together just like batteries. I started out with a 
DC-DC converter that ran off my 180V battery pack.

I then added three more which I series all four of them for 14.5 x 4 = 58V 
output which I use to drive some motors. I also can tap off voltages of 
14.5 and 29 volts to run other devices that require this voltage.

I parallel all four for 120 V input for connecting to 180 volt and later if 
I step up the battery voltage, all I have to do is to series-parallel the 
120 V input for 240 v input which works good while bench testing.

As you get your build complete and running for awhile, it is best to build 
up a spare parts kits, so you do not have so much down time during 
maintenance.

I carry a small parts kit and tool set in my EV. It contains all the tools 
you may need to make on the road repairs, spare length of wires in the No. 
16 and large plus jumper cables to jump out a bad battery, and all the spare 
fuses you need. We normally stock 3 of the larger fuses, where if one fuse 
is replace, then we order a another one.

In June, I have my 5 year motor maintenance due. I had rework the motor 
mounts and transmission mounts, so I can jack up the EV on large jack stands 
and drop the motor and transmission complete with the mountings all in one 
unit below the vehicle and roll it out on a dolly.

Then I install another motor with transmission with mounting system that was 
put in maintenance about 5 years ago.

I can do this swap in a day, where I do not have too much down time. One 
thing a person has to plan on, is the ease of maintenance. During initial 
construction, the motor and transmission was put in through the motor bay, 
but as you add more equipment in front and above the motor, it now becomes 
more difficult to remove the motor out the front.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> makes me feel a bit like a hack, I already have spent years gathering 
> parts,
> donor car, more parts, research on batts, body mods using fiberglass over
> foam, and I only have a few drawings and still have to sit down and plan 
> all
> the wiring.
> This summer I will build the rear drive unit just like the XR-3 and attach
> it to the 300zx, if I get that part done I will be happy. I will have a
> rolling chassie, making the batts fit will be next, then wiring.
> I will use a single 12volt batt for all lights power windows,radio, 
> blowers,
> fans heater/ac,this will be both plug in charge and solar charged,
> For an inverter I was looking at those back up power for your pc units, 
> pure
> sine wave and with internal storage too
> they are made to be charge from a house plug but if you tap into its batt
> with more batts and charge that with the solar, I think it would be very
> plug and play friendly.
> any thoughts.....? I do not have the skills to reinvent many of my
> subsystems. but compared cost and usefulness those computer back up power
> units look attractive as inverters.
> .
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > No, you do not attach the prints together like a schematic drawing.
> > > There
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 21 Apr 2008 at 12:56, Chad Gray wrote:
> 
> >
> > http://www.cedarwooddoghouses.com/petcool.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What do you think of these motors to drive a compressor? Ebay no. 
130215072741

There are a ton of them for sale. I would imagine by the price that there 
is no way they meet the specifications they list.

Also, I looked at the prius electric scroll compressor. Very nice unit, but 
I think it need a special inverter to run it 

_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted vertically? 
Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms do they 
run at?
Thanks, Al 

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The car rpm starts at 1000 and up but the pullys should make it run faster
as they are smaller than the one on the crank,
you would need to measure them and do the math to get the numbers.



> Al <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted vertically?
> > Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms do
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It will work okay at 2,000 rpm. They are generally lubricated by oil
flowing round with the refrigerant (the system has oil injected in it, which
goes round everywhere with the flow) so you should be able to get away with
a vertical mount, though I haven't seen one mounted this way on a car to
confirm. Modern small cars have very small and much more efficient AC
pumps.

Greg.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Randy Eckert
Sent: 22 April 2008 06:29
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C

The car rpm starts at 1000 and up but the pullys should make it run faster
as they are smaller than the one on the crank,
you would need to measure them and do the math to get the numbers.



> Al <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted vertically?
> > Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms do
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Al,

The shaft in the compressor also pumps compressor oil along the shaft into 
the clutch bearing units in some A/C pumps. If it was mounted with the 
clutch pulley on top, it may not get lubricated as much. Maybe if the 
clutch drive was at the bottom, it may work better.

My EV came originally with A/C and the compressor pump was a long heavy pump 
that was mounted on the driver side. I bought one of those new face mount 
A/C pumps that are only 4 inches long and mounts on the surface of a 
aluminum mounting plate.

The original engine drive pulley was a 6 inch pulley. I use a 5 inch on the 
pilot shaft of the motor to drive 5 inch pulley on the A/C pump. This means 
if the engine rpm is 4400 rpm, then the A/C pump is (4400 x 6)/5 = 5280 rpm.

I use a 5 inch pulley drive to drive a 5 inch A/C pulley or something like 
direct drive with a motor maximum rpm of 5925 rpm. These A/C pumps can work 
ok starting out at 500 rpm. I also using two 3 hp electric motors gang 
together with a 2.5 inch pulley driving the 5 inch pulley at about 4000 rpm 
maximum while the electric motors are kept at about 2000 rpm.

You have to look at the maximum rpm rating of the engine you had and the rpm 
rating of a A/C compressor pump. Lets say the engine is rated for 4400 rpm 
like many of the non-performance type standard engines are, then (4400 x 
6)/5 = 5280 rpm maximum to the A/C pump.

See: http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html

click pics no's to see the complete installation of the accessory drive 
system.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Al" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted vertically?
> Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms do 
> they
> run at?
> Thanks, Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

WOW that is the cleanest conversion I have ever seen. what year was it
rebuilt into electric?
how many miles can you go? 20- 30?
and it kept the auto tranny,,,, wow
what does it weight 4500, 5000#
it is a show stopper I am sure.
nice job
looks like something that would roll off a Boeing plant line.
not counting the car would you say you had $10,000 $15,000 tied up in it?
any how I think a round of "I'm not worthy" bowing and scraping are in
order.
I have to say I am a classic Chevy fan.
If I had any of the many 60's Nova's I had they would be the project, I
don't think I would have the heart to redo any of the 64 Impala SS I had,
but my 300zx will do for now
thanks for the pic show



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Al,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland,

I always love to see how you set stuff up on your EV. It looks like you
put a lot of thought into the systems and how they work. I did see that
you had the standard clutch/pulley arrangement for your AC. Is there a
way to take off the clutch and just run it directly from an electric
motor? I would think that driving the clutch AND the electric motor
would be wasting energy. The only thought against this is if you are
using the stock AC control circuitry that is turning the clutch off when
the AC is overpressure or the evaporator gets below 32 degrees. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:37
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C

Hello Al,

The shaft in the compressor also pumps compressor oil along the shaft
into the clutch bearing units in some A/C pumps. If it was mounted with
the clutch pulley on top, it may not get lubricated as much. Maybe if
the clutch drive was at the bottom, it may work better.

My EV came originally with A/C and the compressor pump was a long heavy
pump that was mounted on the driver side. I bought one of those new
face mount A/C pumps that are only 4 inches long and mounts on the
surface of a aluminum mounting plate.

The original engine drive pulley was a 6 inch pulley. I use a 5 inch on
the pilot shaft of the motor to drive 5 inch pulley on the A/C pump.
This means if the engine rpm is 4400 rpm, then the A/C pump is (4400 x
6)/5 = 5280 rpm.

I use a 5 inch pulley drive to drive a 5 inch A/C pulley or something
like direct drive with a motor maximum rpm of 5925 rpm. These A/C pumps
can work ok starting out at 500 rpm. I also using two 3 hp electric
motors gang together with a 2.5 inch pulley driving the 5 inch pulley at
about 4000 rpm maximum while the electric motors are kept at about 2000
rpm.

You have to look at the maximum rpm rating of the engine you had and the
rpm rating of a A/C compressor pump.  Lets say the engine is rated for
4400 rpm like many of the non-performance type standard engines are,
then (4400 x
6)/5 = 5280 rpm maximum to the A/C pump.

See: http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html

click pics no's to see the complete installation of the accessory drive
system.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Al" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted
vertically?
> Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms do

> they
> run at?
> Thanks, Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would think that having the clutch would let the drive motor start before
the load is added, yes?

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Roland,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If the motor driving it were a gas one I would think yes. But since the
motor is electric and it has max torque at starting I don't think it
would be an issue. The reason I bring this up is most electric clutches
pull at least 10 amps of constant current. That is in addition to the
current required to turn the motor. By direct driving the pump you gain
those 10 amps of current. I was thinking that the same control
circuitry that turns the clutch off when the pressure is too high or the
evaporator is below 32 degrees could drive a relay that turns the motor
on and off instead. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Randy Eckert
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:06
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C

I would think that having the clutch would let the drive motor start
before the load is added, yes?

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT,


> N422G5G < [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Roland,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Randy, 

See inserts below:


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> WOW that is the cleanest conversion I have ever seen. what year was it 
> rebuilt into electric?

It's a 1977 El Camino. Build time from 1978 to 1985 with 
up dates and modes until the present time. 

> how many miles can you go? 20- 30? 

At 30 mph city driving which is 100 percent of my driving,
the batteries have a 145 minutes reserved at 75 amps is
(145/60)x75 = 181 ah use out of aa 260 ah battery which is 
0% SOC 

Have never went below 70 SOC and charge about once every 
four days. 

The estimate at 50% SOC would be about ((145/60)/2)x30 mph
= 36 miles.

The maximum I drove it back in the 1980's was 39.5 miles 
which half of the course was about 20 miles up hill which
draw about 200 battery amps at that time resulted in 50%
SOC. 

> and it kept the auto tranny,,,, wow

It started out with a standard TH-350 automatic with torque
converter using a 900 amp CableForm motor controller set at
a violent start and later to soft start. Using no idle 
control and no external pump or vacuum pumps to control 
the pump pressure, the clutches worn out in with 1000 miles

Install a heavy duty 3 speed Saganaw truck transmission 
has a first gear ratio of 3.5:1 which I have connected to 
a Warp 9 motor. 

For my GE-11.5 motor, a modified race type TH-400 build 
up by TCI, uses a direct drive transmission pump drive, no 
torque converter, no governor control, manual valve body 
for only manual shifts only and electric tach and mph 
sender and cable shift control and uses optional idle 
control. 

It uses a GMC vacuum pump and a GMC vacuum accelerator 
vacuum control, which is used to control the transmission 
vacuum modulator, which controls the pump pressure. 

> what does it weight 4500, 5000#

The vehicle weight with out batteries is about 4500# and 
when adding about 1/2 of this weight, the EV now becomes
a total weight of 6860 lbs. 

> it is a show stopper I am sure.
> nice job
> looks like something that would roll off a Boeing plant line.
> not counting the car would you say you had $10,000 $15,000 tied up in it?

How did you know that I work for the Boeing Company? I 
would say just in the major electrical items only, it is
at $15,000.00. This does not include the customize work, 
hatch back system and battery containers, air suspension 
by Shock Wave, heavy duty suspension units, 3 inch inner'
outer axle bearings, instrumentation. 

If I paid my self a nickel a hour, I have estimated it 
is over $80,000.00. 

> any how I think a round of "I'm not worthy" bowing and scraping are in
> order.
> I have to say I am a classic Chevy fan.
> If I had any of the many 60's Nova's I had they would be the project, I
> don't think I would have the heart to redo any of the 64 Impala SS I had,
> but my 300zx will do for now
> thanks for the pic show
> 
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Roland Wiench <[email protected]> 

See: http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Jody,

If you click through the pictures, you will see two 3 hp treadmill motors 
that are gang together, that are mounted just
below the large alternator-inverter. These thread mill motors have its 
front flange mounting sandwich between two 1/4 inch
aluminum plates, as so to reinforce the bearing mounting in this location. 
According to my motor shop man, these bearings mounts
will collasped to one side and the motor will fail.

You will notice there is two v belts coming off these motors which also 
drives the accessory units. The pilot shaft of the motor is belted up to a 
electric clutch that is behind the accessory mounting plated.

If I choose, to do so, I can select different modes of operation. The best 
one, is when the main motor is under power from the main batteries, the 
clutch disconnects from the main motor and the two 3 hp motors are power up 
to about 3000 rpm at no load or about 2000 rpm at load. These 3 hp motors 
are power by the four IOTA DC-DC converters that I can either select 14.5V 
or 29V or 43.5V or 58V. I find that the 29 volt setting, spins these motors 
at 3000 rpm no load and 2000 rpm at 25 amps to drive all the accessories at 
the same time.

Now at any time I let up on the accelerator, during the coast down, the 
micro switch accelerator control turns off the electric motors and the main 
motor is now connected to the accessory drive unit, which gives me some type 
of REGEN directly to the accessories.

At this time during the coast down period, I can make the EV walk down a 
very icy hill, while the motor and main battery ampere is reading O amps, 
and the rotating alternator-inverter is still putting out 14.5 volts up to 
60 amps and the inverter at 120 vac is putting out two lines of 25 amps to 
run the heaters and pumps.

Also, coming down from a airport road, and to keep the EV from
going over 90 mph, this systems also helps to slow this vehicle down.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> Roland,
>
> I always love to see how you set stuff up on your EV. It looks like you
> put a lot of thought into the systems and how they work. I did see that
> you had the standard clutch/pulley arrangement for your AC. Is there a
> way to take off the clutch and just run it directly from an electric
> motor? I would think that driving the clutch AND the electric motor
> would be wasting energy. The only thought against this is if you are
> using the stock AC control circuitry that is turning the clutch off when
> the AC is overpressure or the evaporator gets below 32 degrees.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:37
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
>
> Hello Al,
>
> The shaft in the compressor also pumps compressor oil along the shaft
> into the clutch bearing units in some A/C pumps. If it was mounted with
> the clutch pulley on top, it may not get lubricated as much. Maybe if
> the clutch drive was at the bottom, it may work better.
>
> My EV came originally with A/C and the compressor pump was a long heavy
> pump that was mounted on the driver side. I bought one of those new
> face mount A/C pumps that are only 4 inches long and mounts on the
> surface of a aluminum mounting plate.
>
> The original engine drive pulley was a 6 inch pulley. I use a 5 inch on
> the pilot shaft of the motor to drive 5 inch pulley on the A/C pump.
> This means if the engine rpm is 4400 rpm, then the A/C pump is (4400 x
> 6)/5 = 5280 rpm.
>
> I use a 5 inch pulley drive to drive a 5 inch A/C pulley or something
> like direct drive with a motor maximum rpm of 5925 rpm. These A/C pumps
> can work ok starting out at 500 rpm. I also using two 3 hp electric
> motors gang together with a 2.5 inch pulley driving the 5 inch pulley at
> about 4000 rpm maximum while the electric motors are kept at about 2000
> rpm.
>
> You have to look at the maximum rpm rating of the engine you had and the
> rpm rating of a A/C compressor pump. Lets say the engine is rated for
> 4400 rpm like many of the non-performance type standard engines are,
> then (4400 x
> 6)/5 = 5280 rpm maximum to the A/C pump.
>
> See: http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html
>
> click pics no's to see the complete installation of the accessory drive
> system.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
>
>
> > Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted
> vertically?
> > Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms do
>
> > they
> > run at?
> > Thanks, Al
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So you actually use the AC clutch on your system? How much does the
clutch draw? 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:13
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C

Hello Jody,

If you click through the pictures, you will see two 3 hp treadmill
motors that are gang together, that are mounted just below the large
alternator-inverter. These thread mill motors have its front flange
mounting sandwich between two 1/4 inch aluminum plates, as so to
reinforce the bearing mounting in this location. 
According to my motor shop man, these bearings mounts will collasped to
one side and the motor will fail.

You will notice there is two v belts coming off these motors which also
drives the accessory units. The pilot shaft of the motor is belted up
to a electric clutch that is behind the accessory mounting plated.

If I choose, to do so, I can select different modes of operation. The
best one, is when the main motor is under power from the main batteries,
the clutch disconnects from the main motor and the two 3 hp motors are
power up to about 3000 rpm at no load or about 2000 rpm at load. These
3 hp motors are power by the four IOTA DC-DC converters that I can
either select 14.5V or 29V or 43.5V or 58V. I find that the 29 volt
setting, spins these motors at 3000 rpm no load and 2000 rpm at 25 amps
to drive all the accessories at the same time.

Now at any time I let up on the accelerator, during the coast down, the
micro switch accelerator control turns off the electric motors and the
main motor is now connected to the accessory drive unit, which gives me
some type of REGEN directly to the accessories.

At this time during the coast down period, I can make the EV walk down a
very icy hill, while the motor and main battery ampere is reading O
amps, and the rotating alternator-inverter is still putting out 14.5
volts up to 60 amps and the inverter at 120 vac is putting out two lines
of 25 amps to run the heaters and pumps.

Also, coming down from a airport road, and to keep the EV from going
over 90 mph, this systems also helps to slow this vehicle down.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> Roland,
>
> I always love to see how you set stuff up on your EV. It looks like
you
> put a lot of thought into the systems and how they work. I did see
that
> you had the standard clutch/pulley arrangement for your AC. Is there
a
> way to take off the clutch and just run it directly from an electric
> motor? I would think that driving the clutch AND the electric motor
> would be wasting energy. The only thought against this is if you are
> using the stock AC control circuitry that is turning the clutch off
when
> the AC is overpressure or the evaporator gets below 32 degrees.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:37
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
>
> Hello Al,
>
> The shaft in the compressor also pumps compressor oil along the shaft
> into the clutch bearing units in some A/C pumps. If it was mounted
with
> the clutch pulley on top, it may not get lubricated as much. Maybe if
> the clutch drive was at the bottom, it may work better.
>
> My EV came originally with A/C and the compressor pump was a long
heavy
> pump that was mounted on the driver side. I bought one of those new
> face mount A/C pumps that are only 4 inches long and mounts on the
> surface of a aluminum mounting plate.
>
> The original engine drive pulley was a 6 inch pulley. I use a 5 inch
on
> the pilot shaft of the motor to drive 5 inch pulley on the A/C pump.
> This means if the engine rpm is 4400 rpm, then the A/C pump is (4400 x
> 6)/5 = 5280 rpm.
>
> I use a 5 inch pulley drive to drive a 5 inch A/C pulley or something
> like direct drive with a motor maximum rpm of 5925 rpm. These A/C
pumps
> can work ok starting out at 500 rpm. I also using two 3 hp electric
> motors gang together with a 2.5 inch pulley driving the 5 inch pulley
at
> about 4000 rpm maximum while the electric motors are kept at about
2000
> rpm.
>
> You have to look at the maximum rpm rating of the engine you had and
the
> rpm rating of a A/C compressor pump. Lets say the engine is rated for
> 4400 rpm like many of the non-performance type standard engines are,
> then (4400 x
> 6)/5 = 5280 rpm maximum to the A/C pump.
>
> See: http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html
>
> click pics no's to see the complete installation of the accessory
drive
> system.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
>
>
> > Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted
> vertically?
> > Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms
do
>
> > they
> > run at?
> > Thanks, Al
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

nice design, I worked for Boeing also when I lived in Washington state.
just looking at it reminded me of Boeing.



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Jody,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The AC clutch, uses about 4.2 amps at 14.5 volts. Remember that this 
current is never use from the DC-DC converters from the main battery pack or 
even from the accessory battery while the EV is running. The current only 
comes from the alternator.

The main motor is driving the EV under the main battery power, this clutch 
is off. When the EV is coasting, the alternator-inverter is still 
generating the current to these accessories units and at the same time is 
charging the battery.

The battery does not supply any current while the EV is running, except only 
during startup, something like a battery starting up a starter for a engine, 
which the alternator is off the line during this startup when the ignition 
switch is in the start position, which shuts off the R-wire to the 
alternator.

When the alternator-inverter is up to 1000 rpm, it is then at excitation, 
which causes it to generated the current. There is a 2 to 1 ratio fan 
pulley so when the motor is at 500 rpm, the alternator is at 1000 rpm.

On this type of industrial type of alternator, which is a 7 wire type, there 
is a regulator control wire that plugs into this alternator. A normal 
alternator has about 10 ohms of resistance on this line that comes off the 
12 vdc ignition circuit, which controls the regulator output to about 14.5 
maximum volts.

I first tested out this R-wire circuit with a 0 to 50 ohm rheostat to see 
what resistance would work the best. There is three other resistance 
control circuits that can be adjusted to decrease or increase the voltage in 
0.5 volt steps.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> So you actually use the AC clutch on your system? How much does the
> clutch draw?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:13
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
>
> Hello Jody,
>
> If you click through the pictures, you will see two 3 hp treadmill
> motors that are gang together, that are mounted just below the large
> alternator-inverter. These thread mill motors have its front flange
> mounting sandwich between two 1/4 inch aluminum plates, as so to
> reinforce the bearing mounting in this location.
> According to my motor shop man, these bearings mounts will collasped to
> one side and the motor will fail.
>
> You will notice there is two v belts coming off these motors which also
> drives the accessory units. The pilot shaft of the motor is belted up
> to a electric clutch that is behind the accessory mounting plated.
>
> If I choose, to do so, I can select different modes of operation. The
> best one, is when the main motor is under power from the main batteries,
> the clutch disconnects from the main motor and the two 3 hp motors are
> power up to about 3000 rpm at no load or about 2000 rpm at load. These
> 3 hp motors are power by the four IOTA DC-DC converters that I can
> either select 14.5V or 29V or 43.5V or 58V. I find that the 29 volt
> setting, spins these motors at 3000 rpm no load and 2000 rpm at 25 amps
> to drive all the accessories at the same time.
>
> Now at any time I let up on the accelerator, during the coast down, the
> micro switch accelerator control turns off the electric motors and the
> main motor is now connected to the accessory drive unit, which gives me
> some type of REGEN directly to the accessories.
>
> At this time during the coast down period, I can make the EV walk down a
> very icy hill, while the motor and main battery ampere is reading O
> amps, and the rotating alternator-inverter is still putting out 14.5
> volts up to 60 amps and the inverter at 120 vac is putting out two lines
> of 25 amps to run the heaters and pumps.
>
> Also, coming down from a airport road, and to keep the EV from going
> over 90 mph, this systems also helps to slow this vehicle down.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
>
>
> > Roland,
> >
> > I always love to see how you set stuff up on your EV. It looks like
> you
> > put a lot of thought into the systems and how they work. I did see
> that
> > you had the standard clutch/pulley arrangement for your AC. Is there
> a
> > way to take off the clutch and just run it directly from an electric
> > motor? I would think that driving the clutch AND the electric motor
> > would be wasting energy. The only thought against this is if you are
> > using the stock AC control circuitry that is turning the clutch off
> when
> > the AC is overpressure or the evaporator gets below 32 degrees.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:37
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
> >
> > Hello Al,
> >
> > The shaft in the compressor also pumps compressor oil along the shaft
> > into the clutch bearing units in some A/C pumps. If it was mounted
> with
> > the clutch pulley on top, it may not get lubricated as much. Maybe if
> > the clutch drive was at the bottom, it may work better.
> >
> > My EV came originally with A/C and the compressor pump was a long
> heavy
> > pump that was mounted on the driver side. I bought one of those new
> > face mount A/C pumps that are only 4 inches long and mounts on the
> > surface of a aluminum mounting plate.
> >
> > The original engine drive pulley was a 6 inch pulley. I use a 5 inch
> on
> > the pilot shaft of the motor to drive 5 inch pulley on the A/C pump.
> > This means if the engine rpm is 4400 rpm, then the A/C pump is (4400 x
> > 6)/5 = 5280 rpm.
> >
> > I use a 5 inch pulley drive to drive a 5 inch A/C pulley or something
> > like direct drive with a motor maximum rpm of 5925 rpm. These A/C
> pumps
> > can work ok starting out at 500 rpm. I also using two 3 hp electric
> > motors gang together with a 2.5 inch pulley driving the 5 inch pulley
> at
> > about 4000 rpm maximum while the electric motors are kept at about
> 2000
> > rpm.
> >
> > You have to look at the maximum rpm rating of the engine you had and
> the
> > rpm rating of a A/C compressor pump. Lets say the engine is rated for
> > 4400 rpm like many of the non-performance type standard engines are,
> > then (4400 x
> > 6)/5 = 5280 rpm maximum to the A/C pump.
> >
> > See: http://go-ev.net/pics/001.html
> >
> > click pics no's to see the complete installation of the accessory
> drive
> > system.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Al" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone know if an automotive compressor can be mounted
> > vertically?
> > > Probably not because of lubrication issues? Also, what typical rpms
> do
> >
> > > they
> > > run at?
> > > Thanks, Al
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
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> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
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> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> 

_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, the main motor is always running, which runs the alternator, which 
generate the current, to turn on the clutch when the accelerator is release, 
which the main battery power is disconnected from the main motor which is 
still rotating, which the alternator is still generating, which provides the 
power to the clutch.

As the EV coast to a stop, then the clutch losses power, thus disconnects 
from the pilot shaft of the motor, and the cycle repeats again when the 
alternator is up and rotating again.

I only apply or remove the load from the accessories only while the main 
motor or the accessory drive motor is up to speed.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adding A/C


> I would think that having the clutch would let the drive motor start 
> before
> the load is added, yes?
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G 
> <


> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Roland,
> > >
> ...


----------

