# Factory Five 818 Tesla Conversion



## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

Hello,

I'm starting a Factory Five 818 EV conversion! I originally was planning on building the car from scratch and had a deposit in with FFR, but a rolling chassis came up near me for sale about a month ago and I agreed to buy it. The seller is holding it for me for a few months, but hopefully I'll be picking it up shortly. I've attached a photo of the car as it was when I agreed to buy it.

In the meantime I've been getting everything together I'll need for the EV swap. I have a Tesla Model S LDU arriving from 057Tech tomorrow and have axles on order.

But now I sort of hit a brick wall - _what else do I need?_. I've been reading the forums, but besides batteries and a BMS, I'm a bit stumped on what else I'm going to need to wire everything up. I know I'm going to need to sort out mounting all the hardware, as well as cooling the motor and batteries.

I searched the forums and have read a lot of the wiki posts, but I'm guessing I'll need some other major components as well as things like shunts, cut-off switches, etc. I realize all of this is completely DIY and I need to do all the leg work, but feel like I'm missing some obvious "getting started" guide that everyone else has already read!

Thanks for any pointers, I am looking forward to posting more as I sort this all out!


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

You gotta watch Damian Maguire's Tesla videos on youtube. His BMW is Legendary!!! Plus he has the Open inverter forum. He builds the logic Board so that it can be reprogrammed for your control.


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## P.S.Mangelsdorf (Dec 1, 2014)

CantDecide said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm starting a Factory Five 818 EV conversion! I originally was planning on building the car from scratch and had a deposit in with FFR, but a rolling chassis came up near me for sale about a month ago and I agreed to buy it. The seller is holding it for me for a few months, but hopefully I'll be picking it up shortly. I've attached a photo of the car as it was when I agreed to buy it.
> 
> ...


What I see missing from your list is a battery charger, DC-DC converter (to charge a 12V battery), and fuses and contactors (big relay that is how you'll turn on the car).

057 doesn't release manuals unless you buy the unit (at least the last time I checked) so I don't know what you'll need in terms of gauges and control wiring. You'll want to read the manual and instructions they give you about half a dozen times, let it sit for a week or two, and read it again, so that you're very familiar with what it needs, and give yourself time to digest all of the information.

Likely, what you'll need for contactors and fuses will be covered by 057's instructions

The Open Inverter/ EVBMW solution mentioned previously is great (its what I'm going to be using) but since you already have a unit coming from 057 it wouldn't be applicable here.

You'll still need a 12V wiring harness. I believe Ron Francis has some kits for Factory Five's products, and they have some great wiring diagrams. If you take some time with the Ron Francis diagram and the 057 diagram, you should be able to figure out which ICE wiring components you need, which you don't, and which you'll need to make do something else in your car. (example: in my build the alternator connection will go to the DC-DC converter, and the neutral safety switch will be eliminated)


To circle back to the charger, you'll need to decide what type of charging you'll need. Typically on board chargers can handle Type 1 and Type 2 (110V and 220V outlet/charging station) via the J1772 protocol. This means the car's plug sends AC current in, and the charger converts to DC and charges the battery. Some have control for J1772 built in, others you will need to add another box to handle that. 

If you want to DC fast charge (Type 3) you'll need something that can communicate with a CHADEMO station (I haven't seen any DIY solutions for CCS). On a Type 3 charger, the charging station does the conversion to DC, and the plug in your car connects directly to the battery (via a set of contactors). The Orion2 BMS can handle CHADEMO and J1772, and the Open Inverter community (read: Damien) is working on an open source CHADEMO setup as well.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

Hi, thanks for all the advice, I definitely need to spend more time on YouTube watching other people's builds. I'll check out Damien Maguires!

The motor has arrived, and I was able to pick up the 818 chassis last week. My current project is to pull the fuel tank and motor and start getting the Tesla mounted. Photos are attached, I can't figure out how to embed them in the post.

I didn't find any technical information with the 057 motor, but I didn't have the chassis at the time so I should probably go back and look more closely.

I've started to research batteries, it looks like I'll be able to get the required amount of LG Chem batteries (of the kind EV West sells) to fit in the car, but I'm still looking into other options. The LG Chems would give me 46.8 kW, which seems a bit low. I like the capacity and density of the BMW i3 batteries, but a pack of them will end up being 1000lbs and 85kW which seems too much. I'm hoping to find something that splits the difference - 60kW and 400v would be great.

I would probably be happy with just Type 2 J1772 charging, but having the ability to do Type 3 would be good, so I'll look into that BMS.

Thanks for the advice about the 12v system, I'll look into that as well, and look up Ron Francis. I've also been thinking about how to do pre-charge.

After battery selection the next item on my list is how to handle battery cooling - I haven't found any good resources on how to design or buy chill plates, or how to do water cooling with them, but I've only been chipping away at that a bit.

My basic plan of action is:

1) Mount the motor and drive shaft
2) Battery selection
3) Battery cooling design
4) Battery mount engineering and installation
5) BMS and charging solution
6) 12 volt system and other electronics (pre-charge, instrumentation, etc)
7) brakes and overall finishing the car

Lots of hand-waving right here I know, but I'll keep chipping away at it in that order.


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## P.S.Mangelsdorf (Dec 1, 2014)

CantDecide said:


> After battery selection the next item on my list is how to handle battery cooling - I haven't found any good resources on how to design or buy chill plates, or how to do water cooling with them, but I've only been chipping away at that a bit.


Cooling will depend heavily on your battery selection. The LG Chem batteries EV west has are from a Chrysler Pacifica. They have a similar capacity and capability as the Chevy Volt batteries. The Pacifica ones are air cooled using a large heat sink I believe, and the Volt ones have liquid cooling built in. For some great battery info check out Kerry Manning's EVEngineering channel. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1haWsGv-HcI10lapf4MBgg


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> I've started to research batteries, it looks like I'll be able to get the required amount of LG Chem batteries (of the kind EV West sells) to fit in the car, but I'm still looking into other options. The LG Chems would give me 46.8 kW, which seems a bit low. I like the capacity and density of the BMW i3 batteries, but a pack of them will end up being 1000lbs and 85kW which seems too much. I'm hoping to find something that splits the difference - 60kW and 400v would be great.


To reduce confusion, it helps to use standard terminology. These are *modules* (permanently linked sets of cells), which are joined together to form the complete battery.

Each of your references to "kW" appears to be intended to mean *kWh* (kilowatt-hours) of energy, not kW (kilowatts) of power. Energy and power are related but very different concepts. If you use the correct unit (kWh in this case) your plans and questions will be much more clear.

The LG Chem modules sold by EV West are for the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, and are typical of plug-in hybrid modules: enough of them in series to reach the typical operating voltage of a modern EV or plug-in hybrid (about 360 V nominal) only have 16 kWh of energy capacity. To get three or more times that capacity without using a much higher battery voltage you would need to connect them in parallel. Parallel module connections have problems, and are never done in production EVs. It would make more sense to me to use modules appropriately configured for a EV of the target capacity and voltage, such as those from a Leaf, Bolt, or even the i3. There are at least three EVs in mass production with roughly 60 kWh @ 360/400 V (nominal/peak) batteries - the complete pack from any of them would meet your target.

Why do you think a battery composed of i3 modules would be 1000 lbs and 85 kWh? There are three different i3 battery configurations, strangely advertised by BMW by their amp-hour capacity, and all presumably running the same voltage (96 cell groups in series for 360 V nominal or about 400 V maximum). They are 60 Ah (~21 kWh usable), 94 Ah (~32 kWh usable), and 120 Ah (42.2 kWh usable). A 1000 pound and 85 kWh pack at 400 V (peak, 360 V nominal) would be two complete 120 Ah i3 packs in parallel... yes, that's a lot!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

P.S.Mangelsdorf said:


> Cooling will depend heavily on your battery selection. The LG Chem batteries EV west has are from a Chrysler Pacifica. They have a similar capacity and capability as the Chevy Volt batteries. The Pacifica ones are air cooled using a large heat sink I believe, and the Volt ones have liquid cooling built in.


The LG Chem modules in the Pacifica sit on a liquid-cooled chill plate, which is the thermal management design used by most current EVs. Tesla's internal coolant piping and the Leaf's lack of any active cooling are the notable exceptions. Plug-in hybrids are similar, with the Volt's liquid cooling fins between the cells and the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's air cooling being the notable exceptions.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> After battery selection the next item on my list is how to handle battery cooling - I haven't found any good resources on how to design or buy chill plates, or how to do water cooling with them...


If you group the modules the same way the original vehicle does (apparently two groups of three of those LG Chem modules in the Pacifica) you could use the chill plates and even the mounting brackets from that vehicle.

For an example of someone who has had custom chill plates built (for those LG Chem modules), see snowdog's Electric Supercar build thread... although all of the information is buried in YouTube videos.

Also keep in mind that if you want to use the vehicle in cold weather, you will want to use the thermal management system to heat the battery, not just to cool it.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

brian_ said:


> To reduce confusion, it helps to use standard terminology. These are *modules* (permanently linked sets of cells), which are joined together to form the complete battery.
> 
> Each of your references to "kW" appears to be intended to mean *kWh* (kilowatt-hours) of energy, not kW (kilowatts) of power. Energy and power are related but very different concepts. If you use the correct unit (kWh in this case) your plans and questions will be much more clear.


Ah yes, I knew this, I was being sloppy. Thanks for the reminder. I should know better, we have a Tesla M3 and a Pacifica Hybrid.



brian_ said:


> The LG Chem modules sold by EV West are for the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, and are typical of plug-in hybrid modules: enough of them in series to reach the typical operating voltage of a modern EV or plug-in hybrid (about 360 V nominal) only have 16 kWh of energy capacity. To get three or more times that capacity without using a much higher battery voltage you would need to connect them in parallel. Parallel module connections have problems, and are never done in production EVs.


This is interesting to me - I spoke with someone at EV West and that's exactly what they suggested doing - 3 sets of 6 modules wires together in parallel, for 360 volts nominal and 46.8kWh. I hadn't thought of the complexity of wiring them in parallel though, but it makes sense. Also given the available space I was thinking of physically arranging them in possibly uneven sets, so that would complicate things as well.



brian_ said:


> It would make more sense to me to use modules appropriately configured for a EV of the target capacity and voltage, such as those from a Leaf, Bolt, or even the i3. There are at least three EVs in mass production with roughly 60 kWh @ 360/400 V (nominal/peak) batteries - the complete pack from any of them would meet your target.





brian_ said:


> Why do you think a battery composed of i3 modules would be 1000 lbs and 85 kWh? There are three different i3 battery configurations, strangely advertised by BMW by their amp-hour capacity, and all presumably running the same nominal voltage. They are 60 Ah (~21 kWh usable), 94 Ah (~32 kWh usable), and 120 Ah (42.2 kWh usable). A 1000 pound and 85 kWh pack at 400 V (peak, 360 V nominal) would be two complete 120 Ah i3 packs in parallel... yes, that's a lot!


I was looking at these batteries (https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3kWh-BMW-i3-battery-module-45V-120Ah/123919535208). If I read the specs correctly, I would need 8 to reach a nominal voltage of 364volts with a 42.4 kWh capacity. I had doubled that because I felt like 42.2 kWh was too low, but looking at it again thats just a touch under the capacity of 18 LG Chems and about 200lbs lighter, so maybe a better option.

To your point, sounds like one complete pack from an i3 might be enough. I am hoping this car will have enough range to do some track laps (I know the problems with the Model S motor), so I was hoping for something more in the range of 60 kWh, but this may be a good start.

I would like to liquid cool the batteries, but I haven't found a good source for chill plates. Do they need to be custom made?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> I would probably be happy with just Type 2 J1772 charging, but having the ability to do Type 3 would be good, so I'll look into that BMS.


240 volt AC charging is called Level 2 (rather than "Type 2"), and while some people call fast DC charging "Level 3", it's not... it's just fast DC charging. Fast DC charging is a challenge for DIY builds, and which standard you want to work with (CHAdeMO as used by most Japanese manufacturers, or CCS as used by almost everyone else) is important to the components that you need and ability to make the system work.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

brian_ said:


> 240 volt AC charging is called Level 2 (rather than "Type 2"), and while some people call fast DC charging "Level 3", it's not... it's just fast DC charging. Fast DC charging is a challenge for DIY builds, and which standard you want to work with (CHAdeMO as used by most Japanese manufacturers, or CCS as used by almost everyone else) is important to the components that you need and ability to make the system work.


Again, I knew that, sorry. We have a Level 2 charger here at home. I will probably be fine sticking with Level 2 for now though I was hoping to be able to do quick charge someday. For now its a ways off anyway.



brian_ said:


> If you group the modules the same way the original vehicle does (apparently two groups of three of those LG Chem modules in the Pacifica) you could use the chill plates and even the mounting brackets from that vehicle.


I think that might be a challenge given the space constraints on this chassis, but its something to consider. If the i3 pack can be split and used in pieces, that might work.

Seems like it might be tricky to source one of the newer 42 kWh i3 packs.


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## P.S.Mangelsdorf (Dec 1, 2014)

brian_ said:


> The LG Chem modules in the Pacifica sit on a liquid-cooled chill plate


Thanks for the correction


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> This is interesting to me - I spoke with someone at EV West and that's exactly what they suggested doing - 3 sets of 6 modules wires together in parallel, for 360 volts nominal and 46.8kWh. I hadn't thought of the complexity of wiring them in parallel though, but it makes sense. Also given the available space I was thinking of physically arranging them in possibly uneven sets, so that would complicate things as well.


The complexity is not so much in the high-voltage wiring but in the BMS... ideally you would use three complete BMS systems for that, and have contactors for each of the three strings. I'm sure that EV West would be happy to sell you all of that hardware. 



CantDecide said:


> I was looking at these batteries (https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3kWh-BMW-i3-battery-module-45V-120Ah/123919535208). If I read the specs correctly, I would need 8 to reach a nominal voltage of 364volts with a 42.4 kWh capacity.


Those are the 120 Ah i3 modules, and yes, eight is a full battery pack for the i3.



CantDecide said:


> I would like to liquid cool the batteries, but I haven't found a good source for chill plates. Do they need to be custom made?


I've never heard of a source of ready-to-use off-the-shelf chill plates, and I wouldn't expect to because there are so many possible modules and so many possible configurations. I think that one reason that there is so little experience with buying or building chill plates in this forum is that most people using liquid-cooled modules have used Tesla and Chevrolet Volt modules, which have the liquid cooling components built in. One successful project used Chevrolet Bolt modules (which require a chill plate), but in that case the entire battery pack was used intact, complete with cooling system.

The Volt is being discontinued, the Tesla Model S and X are nearly the end of their lives, and the Tesla Model 3 modules are very awkwardly sized to used in a conversion, so over the next few years I think we'll see a lot of builders forced to sort out this chill plate issue to use liquid-cooled modules salvaged from (or intended for) newer EVs.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> I think that might be a challenge given the space constraints on this chassis, but its something to consider. If the i3 pack can be split and used in pieces, that might work.


The eight modules can certainly be placed in some different arrangement, but I haven't seen enough detail to guess at how the chill plates might be designed.



CantDecide said:


> Seems like it might be tricky to source one of the newer 42 kWh i3 packs.


The i3 was always a little obscure - at least in Canada - and the 42 kWh pack is relatively new... so yes, supply seems likely to be an issue.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Chill plates

You are not moving a huge amount of energy from the batteries - the main loads appear to be when doing fast DC charging - even on the track the amount of energy to be shifted is not that large

The basic idea for a simple DIY chill plate would be a thick aluminium plate with liquid flowing through it - through drilled holes or through a gap between two plates

It's main function - and the reason the Leafs have battery degradation issues - is not so much cooling/heating as temperature equalisation


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

brian_ said:


> The i3 was always a little obscure - at least in Canada - and the 42 kWh pack is relatively new... so yes, supply seems likely to be an issue.


Seems like sourcing any battery modules in the 40-60 kWh range in a usable form factor is a bit tricky. I don't see any i3 or Chevy Bolt batteries available, so the best options right now seem to be a pair of Volt packs or 18 LG Chem modules.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> Seems like sourcing any battery modules in the 40-60 kWh range in a usable form factor is a bit tricky.


True, compared to conventional vehicles any EV is rare, so parts are not plentiful.



CantDecide said:


> I don't see any i3 or Chevy Bolt batteries available, so the best options right now seem to be a pair of Volt packs or 18 LG Chem modules.


You can probably buy a complete Bolt battery (from an authorized GM dealer, with online discount... part number 24285978 or 24289549) for about the same cost as buying 18 of those LG Chem modules from EV West 18 @ US$735 each).


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

Yeah, it looks like an entire Bolt battery is a little over $12k, and 18 LG Chems would be $13k.

Bigbattery.com has the LG Chems a lot cheaper, but I'd still have the BMS issue: https://bigbattery.com/product/60v-lg-chem-battery-module/

Its not clear to me I can pull a lot of power (in terms of max amps) out of the Bolt batteries. I do like that the packs should be new and reasonably available for a while. I wonder what happens if you try and order one without owning a Bolt.


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

The cheapest way of procuring batteries is to pull the complete pack out of an OEM wreck. You'll also get things like contactors, fuses, and wiring, which is nice...You might also be able to reuse other stuff, but it often involves hacking the CAN bus, and that scene is still pretty green.

Track time seems Hard. Even the Model S conks out after a lap or two, right?


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

> Track time seems Hard. Even the Model S cocks out after a lap or two, right?


Yeah, it seems to be the motor, which doesn't dissipate heat well. The Model 3 and next-gen S can handle the track better, but the DIY scene hasn't cracked those motors yet.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

What's wrong with using Tesla modules? Is it just the form factor?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> Its not clear to me I can pull a lot of power (in terms of max amps) out of the Bolt batteries.


At the very least, the Bolt pack can withstand delivering enough power to run the 150 kW motor of the Bolt, and presumably more for a brief enough period.



CantDecide said:


> I wonder what happens if you try and order one without owning a Bolt.


With the rare exception of certain manufacturers (Tesla...) anyone can buy auto parts without proving that they own the intended vehicle, or even providing a VIN. There may be an exception if the parts are subsidized, but while all EV manufacturers lose money on every vehicle that they sell, I don't see a reason to expect GM to be subsidizing parts prices. I doubt there would be a problem.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

brian_ said:


> At the very least, the Bolt pack can withstand delivering enough power to run the 150 kW motor of the Bolt, and presumably more for a brief enough period.


While I expect I'll tune it down a bit the Tesla motor can pull 400 kW, so that seems a bit of an imbalance.

Would these 12s converted Tesla batteries be a bad idea? I think I can get 8 of these into the car, getting 43 kWh and 400 volts, which would be perfect.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> While I expect I'll tune it down a bit the Tesla motor can pull 400 kW, so that seems a bit of an imbalance.


I don't know how much of an issue this is. We have no way to know what the battery can do, only what it is required to do in the Bolt.

There are, of course, the usual issues of conductor and terminal sizes to consider, as well as the cells themselves.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

CantDecide said:


> Would these 12s converted Tesla batteries be a bad idea? I think I can get 8 of these into the car, getting 43 kWh and 400 volts, which would be perfect.


The current limit of the 12S converted modules would be half that of the original modules, so the power limit for the 8 module 43 kWh pack would be half that of the 16 module 85 kWh pack. That might be enough, but unless a Tesla Model S P85D can handle 800 kW, there's no reason to expect the half-pack to handle 400 kW.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

brian_ said:


> I don't know how much of an issue this is. We have no way to know what the battery can do, only what it is required to do in the Bolt.
> 
> There are, of course, the usual issues of conductor and terminal sizes to consider, as well as the cells themselves.


The Zero-EV Skyline now runs a bolt pack, due to some issues with the doner pack it is even runs without one half of a module connected.

Data logs i have reviewed show acceptable sag at 1600Amps. This is with the car doing Gymkhana Grid events so 2-3 minutes hammering it, the temperatures did not rise fast. However this is with the modules mated to big ally plates with coolant running through them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLlrormPTk


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

Is there any build info on the Skyline's swap to the Bolt pack? I'm curious how it was broken up and added to the car.

In addition to the current issue re: the Model S batteries I've read a number of threads (from a few years ago) about concerns with them being unstable if not very carefully being monitored, which makes me nervous. Also the only way they would fit in the car is on a vertical slant on behind the seats, I'm not sure the modules would be able to support themselves internally like that, even if firmly attached.

I'm torn between the LG Chem and the Bolt pack right not. I realized for right now getting something going is better than stalling for the perfect thing. Battery tech will keep improving and I can always upgrade in the future.

Zero EV has a photo of a 2p96s LG Chem pack to be connected to a Tesla LDU. How are they handling the 2p configuration?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

brian_ said:


> With the rare exception of certain manufacturers (Tesla...) anyone can buy auto parts without proving that they own the intended vehicle, or even providing a VIN. There may be an exception if the parts are subsidized, but while all EV manufacturers lose money on every vehicle that they sell, I don't see a reason to expect GM to be subsidizing parts prices. I doubt there would be a problem.


I don't know where you have been living for the last 20 years but ALL vehicle manufacturers have limitations on which parts that you can buy

As far as GM is concerned they had prices for the Volt battery - but it was only available as a replacement battery for a Volt

A number of members tried to buy them with no luck!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Duncan said:


> I don't know where you have been living for the last 20 years but ALL vehicle manufacturers have limitations on which parts that you can buy


For the last 20 years I have been doing all of my own vehicle maintenance and buying the parts for dealers, with none of them ever requiring any evidence that own the vehicle for which the part is desired... in Canada. Of course, I'm not buying parts for vehicles which the manufacturer sells at a loss to appease governments and activists, which is why I acknowledged the subsidy issue.



Duncan said:


> As far as GM is concerned they had prices for the Volt battery - but it was only available as a replacement battery for a Volt
> 
> A number of members tried to buy them with no luck!


Interesting. Has anyone tried with a Bolt?


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

No progress yet on the EV side of things but I was finally able to get all the remaining parts from the seller - body and interior pieces, so the car is now all in one place again (for some loose definition of "one place")

I'm hoping to do some detailed measurements of the chassis for battery fit this week and choose between the Bolt and Pacifica battery routes, unless something comes up.

I have some videos to watch as research into cooling, etc as well.


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## grayk (Feb 15, 2021)

CantDecide said:


> No progress yet on the EV side of things but I was finally able to get all the remaining parts from the seller - body and interior pieces, so the car is now all in one place again (for some loose definition of "one place")
> 
> I'm hoping to do some detailed measurements of the chassis for battery fit this week and choose between the Bolt and Pacifica battery routes, unless something comes up.
> 
> I have some videos to watch as research into cooling, etc as well.



Cool Project! I'm working on a similar build (818c and Tesla LDU) and documenting it on YouTube. The Bolt batteries are very hard to come by and they have huge voltage sag compared to the older Volt Batteries (especially the gen 2 cells). I think they swapped chem in favor for better energy weight density on the BOLT. Anyways best of luck man!


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

Interesting. Do you have a source for that info? Is there even a standard way of measuring sag? I don't have this info for any batteries, and it's rather important for small packs.


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## grayk (Feb 15, 2021)

Tremelune said:


> Interesting. Do you have a source for that info? Is there even a standard way of measuring sag? I don't have this info for any batteries, and it's rather important for small packs.


The packs are made of cells similar to this in the BOLT (1c): E63 Original Lithium Li Polymer Battery 3.7v 63ah - Buy E63 Li Polymer Battery Cell,L G Polymer Battery Cell,Lithium Polymer Battery 3.7v E63 Original Battery Product on Alibaba.com

The packs in the volt are capable of more power (I cant say how much more) but they are much lower energy weight density.


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## Kwol (5 mo ago)

I realize I’m pretty late to the party here, but I’m just curious what you ended up doing.

I’m also interested in why no one mentioned the Kia Soul pack. I had it in my head that energy density was high and size was relatively low.

I’m going to DIY a kit when I retire in 5 years… been building the savings account for it. Currently the plan is to 818C it with a dual motor setup, but 5 years is a long time for things to change, so I’m trying not to get too into the weeds for another bit. I wrote to ultima about it and they essentially told me to bugger off, they won’t sell to anyone not intending to keep the LS ICE power train for brand purity…


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

We went with new cells from Electric GT. The car is mostly ready to run but we are having trouble getting the ZEVA EVMS to do precharge.


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## Kwol (5 mo ago)

So how big of a pack did you end up putting in? Looks like they have quite the range of options. You mounted everything right behind the fire wall?


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

Yes, it's a ~48kwh pack. Originally it was going to be 60kwh, but it spread all throughout the passenger compartment and was a mess. We had an opportunity to downsize and took it. I would like to put a few cells where the fuel tank normally goes but it's a bit of a squeeze if you want taller people to fit. The 818 is pretty small.

Our intention is to offer a kit for conversion (which is one reason we went with new cells). If anyone wants a Tesla LDU cradle, we can make this now. The design requires cutting some existing diagonal chassis supports but more than makes up for it with extra bracing. Most 818 conversions just cut the braces and call it done.


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## dlud (Jul 19, 2021)

CantDecide said:


> Yes, it's a ~48kwh pack. Originally it was going to be 60kwh, but it spread all throughout the passenger compartment and was a mess. We had an opportunity to downsize and took it. I would like to put a few cells where the fuel tank normally goes but it's a bit of a squeeze if you want taller people to fit. The 818 is pretty small.
> 
> Our intention is to offer a kit for conversion (which is one reason we went with new cells). If anyone wants a Tesla LDU cradle, we can make this now. The design requires cutting some existing diagonal chassis supports but more than makes up for it with extra bracing. Most 818 conversions just cut the braces and call it done.
> 
> View attachment 132019


Is the conversion kit for the 818? If so, I assume you are aware that the 818 is likely discontinued.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

dlud said:


> Is the conversion kit for the 818? If so, I assume you are aware that the 818 is likely discontinued.


Hah. Yes, and yes, I'm aware. It wasn't at the time we started. We'll have to evaluate and pivot after we get the car running.

We made some progress on the BMS, so hopefully we'll be running shortly


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## Kwol (5 mo ago)

I wasn’t aware. After looking into it, there are some pretty upset people with how the discontinuation of the car went down, too. I suppose that limits choices a bit further, what a drag. I’ll keep watch, thanks for the heads up. The FF 818 page even still exists, but ordering link 404’s.


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## CantDecide (Oct 20, 2019)

It's not officially discontinued - it's "on pause as they reevaluate demand and the platform". David Smith has posted to Facebook a few times about it. Basically the WRX platform is ageing and I think they'd probably like to get it on a platform that has more volume for parts.


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