# [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series
hybrid.

I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was
not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing. 

Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the
reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Overheat-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house-fire-car-offended-204708241.html
> -
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The headline could have just as easily been "gasoline engine fire".... and
focused on the fact that it's not a normal electric car, but one with a
highly flammable gasoline engine in it too. So far, it's not known which
part (the EV part, the ICE part, or just plain old electrical wiring like
the hundreds of thousands of Ford ignition switches that set cars on fire)
is to blame. It seems like the media likes spinning it to blame the EV
part though.

Z

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
[email protected]> wrote:

> It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series
> hybrid.
>
> I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was
> not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing.
>
> Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the
> reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
> -
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Overheat-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html
>


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > >
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house-fire-car-offended-204708241.html
> > -
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm with ya but do gas engine fires start while the car is not in use? T=
hat might be the creepy thing that the media is focused on. Internal bat=
tery shorts can form when a Li battery is not in use (low quality cells). =
I suppose gas engine fires can start when refueling, i.e. charging.. =
Only we're not used to refueling in a garage attached to our house/worldly-=
possessions.

I wish they would report the chemistry,LiCoO2 vs. LiFePO4, etc.

-Chris



________________________________
From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> =

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire
=

The headline could have just as easily been "gasoline engine fire".... and
focused on the fact that it's not a normal electric car, but one with a
highly flammable gasoline engine in it too. So far, it's not known which
part (the EV part, the ICE part, or just plain old electrical wiring like
the hundreds of thousands of Ford ignition switches that set cars on fire)
is to blame. It seems like the media likes spinning it to blame the EV
part though.

Z

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
[email protected]> wrote:

> It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series
> hybrid.
>
> I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was
> not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing.
>
> Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the
> reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
> -
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Overhe=
at-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html
>


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > >
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house-fi=
> re-car-offended-204708241.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

True... though most gas engine fires are ignited by the electrical system,
which quite often do happen when it's not in use, though probably more
often when its running.

Z

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Christopher Darilek <[email protected]
> wrote:

> I'm with ya but do gas engine fires start while the car is not in use?
> That might be the creepy thing that the media is focused on. Internal
> battery shorts can form when a Li battery is not in use (low quality
> cells). I suppose gas engine fires can start when refueling, i.e.
> charging.. Only we're not used to refueling in a garage attached to our
> house/worldly-possessions.
>
> I wish they would report the chemistry, LiCoO2 vs. LiFePO4, etc.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire
>
> The headline could have just as easily been "gasoline engine fire".... and
> focused on the fact that it's not a normal electric car, but one with a
> highly flammable gasoline engine in it too. So far, it's not known which
> part (the EV part, the ICE part, or just plain old electrical wiring like
> the hundreds of thousands of Ford ignition switches that set cars on fire)
> is to blame. It seems like the media likes spinning it to blame the EV
> part though.
>
> Z
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series
> > hybrid.
> >
> > I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was
> > not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing.
> >
> > Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the
> > reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .
> >
> >
> > {brucedp.150m.com}
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Overheat-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html
> >


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house-fire-car-offended-204708241.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Anything is possible. A neighbor's car burned when he turned on the
ignition. Apparently a mouse had chewed and shorted spark plug wires and
they caught fire, quickly spreading.

Many years ago, I had an exhaust pipe replaced on my car. I drove it a
while and parked. When I came back, I noticed a small trail of gas on the
ground. I looked underneath and discovered the mechanic had let part of the
exhaust pipe touch a rubber gas line segment. It had melted through just
enough to let out a small drip. Fortunately, no fire and easy to fix.

I will say, though, I do think special attention is needed for new
technology. Old technology is well understood and whether its safe or not,
we pretty much know what to expect. Even if EVs are safer (I believe they
are), we don't have enough experience to know all the potential problems. I
don't like seeing the press spin, but it's going to happen until EVs are
well understood. =


Peri =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Christopher Darilek
Sent: 10 May, 2012 8:24 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire

I'm with ya but do gas engine fires start while the car is not in use? T=
hat
might be the creepy thing that the media is focused on. Internal battery
shorts can form when a Li battery is not in use (low quality cells). I
suppose gas engine fires can start when refueling, i.e. charging.. Only
we're not used to refueling in a garage attached to our
house/worldly-possessions.

I wish they would report the chemistry,LiCoO2 vs. LiFePO4, etc.

-Chris



________________________________
From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]xx.xxx.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire
=

The headline could have just as easily been "gasoline engine fire".... and
focused on the fact that it's not a normal electric car, but one with a
highly flammable gasoline engine in it too. So far, it's not known which
part (the EV part, the ICE part, or just plain old electrical wiring like
the hundreds of thousands of Ford ignition switches that set cars on fire)
is to blame. It seems like the media likes spinning it to blame the EV p=
art
though.

Z

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
[email protected]> wrote:

> It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series =

> hybrid.
>
> I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was =

> not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing.
>
> Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the =

> reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
> -
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Ove
> rheat-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html
>


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > >
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house
> > -fire-car-offended-204708241.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

They do indeed, my brother in laws truck caught fire after it was parked.

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Christopher Darilek
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm with ya but do gas engine fires start while the car is not in use? =
That might be the creepy thing that the media is focused on. Internal=
battery shorts can form when a Li battery is not in use (low quality cells=
). I suppose gas engine fires can start when refueling, i.e. charging.. =
Only we're not used to refueling in a garage attached to our house/world=
ly-possessions.
>
> I wish they would report the chemistry,LiCoO2 vs. LiFePO4, etc.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire
>
> The headline could have just as easily been "gasoline engine fire".... and
> focused on the fact that it's not a normal electric car, but one with a
> highly flammable gasoline engine in it too. So far, it's not known =
which
> part (the EV part, the ICE part, or just plain old electrical wiring like
> the hundreds of thousands of Ford ignition switches that set cars on fire)
> is to blame. It seems like the media likes spinning it to blame the EV
> part though.
>
> Z
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series
>> hybrid.
>>
>> I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was
>> not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing.
>>
>> Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the
>> reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.150m.com}
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Overh=
eat-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html
>>


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> >> >
> >> http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house-f=
> ire-car-offended-204708241.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How many electrical fires happen when not in use? None that I've ever heard
of (supposedly the Karma wasn't charging).

Either the reported facts are wrong, a jealous neighbor (or owner with buyer
remorse) threw some fireworks in the gas tank, or Fisker really Fiskered
something.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Karma-is-a-pih-Electric-car-fire-tp4622978p4623858.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Years ago, I had the transmission replaced in a tow truck. It had an
electric winch on the boom. The mechanic managed to pinch the power cable
of the winch in the sub frame of the truck, resulting in vibration wear.
About a month later I woke up to the sound of the horn going non-stop, and
the truck on fire. I disconnected the battery, which stopped the horn, and
stopped the fan that was accelerating the flames. About that time the fire
dept showed up and sprayed their chemicals, putting out the burning plastic
and rubber products. The truck was salvageable, and a short while later I
was using it again (after replacing the interior, carburetor, and wiring),
but I still recall the sinking feeling watching as it sat burning in my
driveway.
The point is that a fire can happen in any vehicle, ice or otherwise.

-Tom

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Peter Gabrielsson <
[email protected]> wrote:

> They do indeed, my brother in laws truck caught fire after it was parked.
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Christopher Darilek
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm with ya but do gas engine fires start while the car is not in use?
> That might be the creepy thing that the media is focused on. Internal
> battery shorts can form when a Li battery is not in use (low quality
> cells). I suppose gas engine fires can start when refueling, i.e.
> charging.. Only we're not used to refueling in a garage attached to our
> house/worldly-possessions.
> >
> > I wish they would report the chemistry, LiCoO2 vs. LiFePO4, etc.
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Karma is a pih : Electric car fire
> >
> > The headline could have just as easily been "gasoline engine fire"....
> and
> > focused on the fact that it's not a normal electric car, but one with a
> > highly flammable gasoline engine in it too. So far, it's not known
> which
> > part (the EV part, the ICE part, or just plain old electrical wiring like
> > the hundreds of thousands of Ford ignition switches that set cars on
> fire)
> > is to blame. It seems like the media likes spinning it to blame the EV
> > part though.
> >
> > Z
> >
> > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> It not about an EV, its about a Fisker Karma which is a plug-in series
> >> hybrid.
> >>
> >> I have two sets of newswires on this. The first set says, the pack was
> >> not the initiator. The second, is the usual finger pointing.
> >>
> >> Since it is not an EV put a pih, I decided I would wait until all the
> >> reports were in before stealth posting this pih piece on brucedp3 .
> >>
> >>
> >> {brucedp.150m.com}
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Motor-Overheat-additional-info-tp4619321p4622820.html
> >>


> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > >> >
> > >>
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/fisker-karma-owner-blames-house-fire-car-offended-204708241.html
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When catalytic converters started to become common I remember the media having fun with lots of storeys about cars catching fire when parking off-road in long grass in summer - usually at shows etc where fields and parks were being used as car parks. I'm guessing that there are a whole host of causes for the 200 thousand plus car fires that occur every year in the US alone, let alone the rest of the world. No-one cares a hoot about <them>! MW




> Christopher Darilek wrote:
> 
> > I'm with ya but do gas engine fires start while the car is not in use? That might be the creepy thing that the media is focused on. Internal battery shorts can form when a Li battery is not in use (low quality cells). I suppose gas engine fires can start when refueling, i.e. charging.. Only we're not used to refueling in a garage attached to our house/worldly-possessions.
> >
> ...


----------

