# Evonics Li-Tec Cells, Separion Ceramic Separators,



## Morf (May 29, 2009)

Evonik is a battery company that will be supplying electric drive batteries for Mercedes Benz. The battery that they are making for the 2013 fortwo e d will feature a new separator that can withstand temperatures up to approx. 700 degrees c. The plastic separators commonly used are stable up to 140 degrees. If a plastic separator battery is overcharged, the separators can``overheat, melt and trigger a short circuit, making them likely to explode``. You can read about this on Evonik`s home page.

I have on order a 2013 Electric Drive smart fortwo that will be the first car out with the new ceramic/polymer separators and will have a chance to live with this new battery, and will report on it. 

In 2007, Evonik`s team was nominated for the German Future Award, for this compact and flat cell battery. They claim outstanding safety and high power density. The smart has all new upraded performance for `13, using a Bosch motor. Can`t wait. Morf


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

For the record I don't think a production EV battery has ever exploded. So while the new separator technology is interesting, cycle life, C rates, specific energy, and cost, are much more important.


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## Morf (May 29, 2009)

JRP3, 
I have followed your work, and been inspired by what you are doing. No `buts` at this point. I was quoting the Evonik Home Page quite often above. I went looking to the MIT`s Technology Review for an additional opinion and found at http://www.technologyreview.com go to their search ``Lithium Batteries that do not Explode``. Their summary of the topic concerning melting separators is the best of many that say quite the same thing. 

Controlling the heat of the batteries and making certain that overcharge does not happen appears to be the key for the present iteration. For myself, it seemed to be a bonus to worry less about those happenings with the new separator system. In trying not to sound like a person with a sales pitch for the car, I didn`t mention what is also in the MIT article pertaining to the anticipated decade long life expectancy for the battery and it`s ability not to degenerate in 4 or 5 years. Best Wishes, 
Morf


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

A safer cell certainly is a good thing, but when they talk about exploding batteries there is an implication that today's EV cells are prone to such behavior, which they are not.
The best technical data I've found for the li-tec cells is here, though it's three years old:
http://www.life-needs-power.de/2009...sentation_life_needs_power_TS_29_03_09_2a.pdf
If you have any more up to date specifications I'd be interested in them.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Toyota Motorsport is using li-tech cells in their race car:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/06/tmg-20120607.html
Can't get a solid figure on the specific energy of the cells, the PDF claimed 135 wh/kg and this article, which is older, claims 200 wh/kg:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/evonik-and-daim.html


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## Morf (May 29, 2009)

Reference for Evonik, Separion, 
Google Separion-Evonik Industries First item up. Identical title.

Or http://corporate.evonik.com/en/content/product-news/lithium-ion-batteries/Pages/separion.aspx Whew! Morf


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## Morf (May 29, 2009)

Sorry I posted to your second to last post as your last one came in while I was typing. I don`t have any special sources yet for specs. I am just a customer waiting for a product at this point, and will be starting a solar charging station this coming week, even if that consists only of more research or collecting essentials. Toshiba SCIB is interesting also I think. Old age coming up and SCIB seemed to never get released to the public. Cheers, Morf


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah SCIB is being used in the Honda Fit EV, which is going to be lease only  Apparently they don't want anyone to actually own a very long lasting battery.


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

Why doesn't fiberglass fabric work? Just curious.


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## Morf (May 29, 2009)

McRat,
I would tell you about fiberglass as battery separators but I think it unwise to upstage the several hundred German Engineers who have been working on advanced seperator development for the last 5 years or so. 

However I had a diesel electric crane with a Cat D21000 v-8, noting your footnote. It was an Orton 40 ton on rails, ran at 550 rpm. took about an hour to start it. But back to business....... Best Wishes, Morf


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

A fiberglass seperator would have to formed by heat and not use resin, as it would limit the heat tolerance.


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