# Converting an old diesel farm tractor to electric



## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

I called A1 Machinery in Montreal and the guy said there are many forklifts I could get for around 500$, without batteries/charger.

I'll go read Hi-Torque thread's about forklift engines before heading there


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

bazou said:


> 1) Do you think I could get someone to machine me a coupler/adapter plate for a tractor's transmission?
> 3) The batteries would probably be added on the sides of the engine, exposed to the elements. Would I need to build a weather proof box?


you don't even need to touch the transmission.... I have a buddy that runs his tractor back thru the PTO... Just coupled an electric motor direct to the PTO and left the ICE in place since the block was structural. Yes, you'll want a box for batteries.... marine ply, or polypro plastic with a steel frame. A 8" DC motor will have MORE torque than the typical small tractor engine and about the same constant HP rating.

In the case of a tractor, especially one not having heavy daily use, you MIGHT wanna consider a solar panel canopy for re-charge. Doesn't make sense for cars, but kinda does for tractors.

check out
http://www.solarcarandtractor.com/Home.html


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> you don't even need to touch the transmission.... I have a buddy that runs his tractor back thru the PTO... Just coupled an electric motor direct to the PTO and left the ICE in place since the block was structural. Yes, you'll want a box for batteries.... marine ply, or polypro plastic with a steel frame. A 8" DC motor will have MORE torque than the typical small tractor engine and about the same constant HP rating.
> 
> In the case of a tractor, especially one not having heavy daily use, you MIGHT wanna consider a solar panel canopy for re-charge. Doesn't make sense for cars, but kinda does for tractors.
> 
> ...




Didnt think about just powering the tractor through the PTO, that's a great idea and would save a lot of time and hassle. Good idea!
Doesnt he waste power by making the ICE "revolve" though?

hehe I was about to quote the same page 
My father's tractor is more or less the same size, so I guess John Howe's 12 kW would be a good target for this tractor. I'll keep reading on the forklifts motors to make sure that could be done.


Thanks for the reply again!


edit (RE the PTO) : Since the PTO is geared to always turn *faster* than the ICE, I guess that's a good think because I want my electric motor to turn fast, which the old diesel transmission isnt geared to do, right?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Would the PTO still drive the rear wheels if the gearbox in is neutral? 
If it does then that would be your way forward. If you needed to use the ICE then select out the pto and drive as usual.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Would the PTO still drive the rear wheels if the gearbox in is neutral?
> If it does then that would be your way forward. If you needed to use the ICE then select out the pto and drive as usual.


I'm not sure if that's what you mean, but the PTO is already turning at X times the ICE's RPM, no matter what gear the transmission is in.

Just phoned my dad and he's enthusiastic about it converting a tractor : One of his old tractor has been spitting a lot of prestone lately .. 

Sweet!

A cool winter project


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

In that case the motor on the pto would be driving the input shaft to the gearbox. It would have all the gears available to use too. However, you would need to disconnect the engine by declutching to save turning the engine as well. 

If your clutch is a mechanical link then you could press the clutch down and have a catch to hold the pedal in the down position.
That would allow the clutch plate to spin with the motor and transmission but the engine, flywheel and pressure plate would be stationary.
I'm not sure if this would have long term effects on the pressure plate though.

You could still use the ICE by deselecting the pto and reactivating the clutch. Means you can drive home if the battery is low.

I can imagine that for a tractor you could use the motor, controller and batteries all from a forklift, even better if you get the charger to match.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> In that case the motor on the pto would be driving the input shaft to the gearbox. It would have all the gears available to use too. However, you would need to disconnect the engine by declutching to save turning the engine as well.
> 
> If your clutch is a mechanical link then you could press the clutch down and have a catch to hold the pedal in the down position.
> That would allow the clutch plate to spin with the motor and transmission but the engine, flywheel and pressure plate would be stationary.
> ...


This just keeps getting better and better. My initial thought would have been to permanently remove the link between the ICE and the transmission (just remove the clutch?) so as not to waste power turning the ICE when it is not being used, but your idea of a catch to hold the clutch down seems much better.



Woodsmith said:


> I can imagine that for a tractor you could use the motor, controller and batteries all from a forklift, even better if you get the charger to match.


That would be awesome. I still have a lot of reading to do, but my impression so far was that people were:

1) not using the controller because it doesnt allow a high enough voltage (48v max)
2) not using batteries because they are way too heavy. 


But I could use both in a tractor because I probably wouldnt need the voltage because it would be strong enough at 48v and weight wouldnt be as much an issue.

Is that correct?

The guy I called told me it was 500$ for a forklift, not including batteries (2000$) and charger (dont remember, 1000$ i think) ...
For that price I might as well go for optimas or something else..


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> you don't even need to touch the transmission.... I have a buddy that runs his tractor back thru the PTO... Just coupled an electric motor direct to the PTO and left the ICE in place since the block was structural. Yes, you'll want a box for batteries.... marine ply, or polypro plastic with a steel frame. A 8" DC motor will have MORE torque than the typical small tractor engine and about the same constant HP rating.
> 
> In the case of a tractor, especially one not having heavy daily use, you MIGHT wanna consider a solar panel canopy for re-charge. Doesn't make sense for cars, but kinda does for tractors.
> 
> ...


dtbaker, do you happen to have pictures of that tractor?

Thanks!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Here is a great little pdf about the tractor.
http://www.antiquefarming.com/PDF/ih275.pdf
It has a cross section of the transmission on page 10 that shows how the pto drives the primary shaft to the gearbox.

Just a thought that others may want to comment on.

The pto shaft is at the very back of the transmission and handing a motor there may cause it to stick out a long way. You may want to think about laying the motor on the axle case alongside the transmission and having a chain drive to the pto. Or maybe getting a wheel motor from a forklift that has an angle drive that you can connect to the pto so the tail end of the motor points to the sky rather then hanging out the back.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Just a thought that others may want to comment on.
> 
> The pto shaft is at the very back of the transmission and handing a motor there may cause it to stick out a long way. You may want to think about laying the motor on the axle case alongside the transmission and having a chain drive to the pto.


Yes, good idea! My father also wants to do it that way because using a chain (motorcycle style) to drive the pto seems the be the easiest way to connect the motor to the transmission without needing any form of coupler / adapter plate. 

We were thinking about actually putting the motor *abobe* the pto.


That also seems be a good way to gear the motor to revolve at a confortable RPM not dictated by the transmission.

--
Thanks for the pdf too! Wonder who scanned this. I love how the guy has his nicest suit to operate machinery..


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

bazou said:


> I love how the guy has his nicest suit to operate machinery..


That was a whole other era when men wore suits, neck ties and hats as their work clothes and kept their collars starched.

I have videos of people working in heavy industry, on steam engines and on trucks from the 20-60's and they often wore shirt and tie under their overalls.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Here a checklist I made for when I go see a forklift motor.. Any comments?

1) 8"+ inch
2) "male" shaft. (Btw, I'm not sure what *splined* means)
3) series wound (not sepex)
4) at least 4 brushes

That's it?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

bazou said:


> 2) "male" shaft. (Btw, I'm not sure what *splined* means)


Hi bazou,

http://www.utm.edu/departments/engin/lemaster/Machine Design/Lecture 20.pdf 

Takes a long time to load 

http://www.utm.edu/departments/engin/lemaster/Machine Design/Notes 20.pdf 

Same thing, but smaller and loads faster 

Most lift truck motors use splined shafts to mate to the gearbox or axle. Most of the motors sold as EV motors have a keyway in the output shaft.

Regards,

major


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

major said:


> Hi bazou,
> 
> http://www.utm.edu/departments/engin/lemaster/Machine Design/Lecture 20.pdf
> 
> ...


Thanks Major! 

Since the lift truck motor will most likely be splined and the PTO is splined as well, would a chain be the easiest way to link both?

I am still considering the 'remove the ICE and deal with the structure problem' approach. Is there a thread showing how people couple splined engines to a splined transmission ? (I would have to look, but if I remember correctly that's how the tractor was built).


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

bazou said:


> Since the lift truck motor will most likely be splined and the PTO is splined as well, would a chain be the easiest way to link both?


Not sure about that. Others have had to deal with splines. See http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/coupling-splined-shaft-34586.html 

Maybe some more searching here or on google will help. Look for shaft coupling. 

major


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

major said:


> Not sure about that. Others have had to deal with splines. See http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/coupling-splined-shaft-34586.html
> 
> Maybe some more searching here or on google will help. Look for shaft coupling.
> 
> major


Thanks again, I wasnt sure what do search for.

(still reading)


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

**NEWS**

Got my motor(s)! today!

A friend and I just pulled the drive motor,pump motor and all cables and controllers today from a CAT forklift from some guy who does scrap metal south of Ottawa. It was great fun but very oily and I'm glad we're done!

Some specs before I forget them:
The drive motor : 11" diameter x 15". Dual shaft. One shaft has the parking brake on it, the other one has a 'spiralled' spline (whatever you call them). I'll have to check tomorrow, but it looked like there was a way to remove this.

The pump motor : 9" diameter * 14" long. *it has a shaft!!* , very short shaft, about 1/2" long and 1" diameter, with 24 teeth. I'll try and see if I can find a coupler from a farm tractor PTO online...

Controller/cables : Those weighted 80 pounds, including a huge aluminium plate holding everything together.. I thought I might as well get it in case I build an adapter plate.


**Question!!** )

1) I'll search the threads after this, but how does one clean those things?

2) I'll have to get a picture up tomorrow, because I'm not sure what kind of motor they are (series/sepex/compound?) . Also, I have no idea what eveyrything does on my 'controller slab'. 

Still, I'm very excited to have made this first 400$ step.. 

The guy does scrap metal and has a lot of structural steel I might end up buying to build the structure of the farm tractor around the motor if we end up going that way.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey, that's a good find there. The drive motor is just the size I am looking for too.
Have a look at Jim Husted's site for some information on what to do with motors.
There is also loads of info in the 'motors' part of the forum that will explain how to tell what you have.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

What about stripping every moving part out of the engine, but the crank shaft. Mount the motor on the side of the block and hook it to the crank shaft. Just have to rig an oil pump for the mains, or, over fill the oil level a little, for a splash lube system. 

This way, you still have clutch, trans, and have not crippled the PTO by using it. 

If it's a 4 or 6 cylinder, lots of room on the sides of the block.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Have a look at Jim Husted's site f


Thanks! Once again, Jim had exactly what I needed. Seems all I need is some soap and work. (and water degreaser, air compressor and small heater and eventually some AC-46 insulation spray)


By the way, do you happen to have any picture of that converted farm tractor? I'm still unsure of which way to go yet (PTO or remove motor or Harold's way)

Thanks!



*From forklift dirty to EV clean*
I use a hot soap and water degreaser. In fact if the wife allowed you
to, you could wash your motor in her sink. With a fresh black eye
you’ve decided that maybe outside might be better. Add some soap to some
hot water and scrub away at any grease and grime that maybe lurking.
Now you must get the water out! I use compressed air and blow out all
I can and then use my bake oven to bake out the rest, but you could use
the wife’s range set at 250ish… If one black eye is enough from
the Mrs., you can use a small heater set outside and put the armature and
or housing close until it is dried out. You can use solvents but I
take no responsibility to your house burning down and the ensuing wife
beating you will receive (also do not breathe vapor). Use an OHMmeter to
make sure that your parts are ground free (no continuity between any
steel to any copper). A pre-test should be done so you know whether you
started with a ground or may still have some moisture left to dry out.
Just touch any copper area to any steel area, it should not show any
continuity between them @ a minimum RX times 10K meter. I use a 40 M fluke
meter
If you wanted to really shine it up use some clear AC-46 insulation spray from
EIS (Electrical Insulation Suppy( and coat all your windings and let it air dry,
AHHHHH.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Harold in CR said:


> What about stripping every moving part out of the engine, but the crank shaft. Mount the motor on the side of the block and hook it to the crank shaft. Just have to rig an oil pump for the mains, or, over fill the oil level a little, for a splash lube system.
> 
> This way, you still have clutch, trans, and have not crippled the PTO by using it.
> 
> If it's a 4 or 6 cylinder, lots of room on the sides of the block.



It's a 4 cylinder (actually running on 3 these days lol), so that sound like a good idea. I'll follow that over to my dad, he's the one who'll be thinking over the fabrication part )


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Pictures! ( and questions for the motor geniuses around here) 

First post will have pictures from the drive motor, second post of the pump motor and third post of the big control panel.

----------------
Drive motor:
Caterpillar
11" diameter x 15" long . 
Dual shaft, one helical and one for brakes.

Question: how do I plug it ? As you will see, it has 6 'connectors'. All of them were used on the forklift, but I didnt have a camera with me back then...


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Pump motor
9" diam, 14" long.
Has a small splined shaft (1/2" long, 1" diam, 24 tooth).

Question: How do I run this one? Again, it has 6 connectors ( or more appropriately, 5 screw in connectors and 1 plug-in connector..


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Control panel.
about 16" square aluminium plate.

This one, I have no idea what it contains, or what I can do with it.. I am totally lost and would really appreciate some help here once again  

Questions:
1) Is there any thing I can use in there?
2) Bonus points for telling me what is in the squares numbered I to VI. I'll leave it as homework for me to find out what it is for once I'm told what it is 

Thanks again!


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

bazou said:


> Pictures! ( and questions for the motor geniuses around here)
> 
> First post will have pictures from the drive motor, second post of the pump motor and third post of the big control panel.
> 
> ...


Hey everyone,
just wondering,
would a Curtis 1204 36-48v motor controller work on this motor?
specs say 225 amps.

cheers!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hiya,
I am using the Curtis 1214 350A 48v controller on my little tractor to drive a club car motor.

I would imagine that yours would work but I don't know about the motor. It should work, the motor just needs connecting in the right way.

Would you have enough power through that controller? Is it choice or just available?


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Hiya,
> I am using the Curtis 1214 350A 48v controller on my little tractor to drive a club car motor.
> 
> I would imagine that yours would work but I don't know about the motor. It should work, the motor just needs connecting in the right way.
> ...



not sure about the requirements, it sure is a big motor.

It is choice, but cheap (10$ on ebay for now!)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

bazou said:


> not sure about the requirements, it sure is a big motor.
> 
> It is choice, but cheap (10$ on ebay for now!)


You can't go wrong for $10 I guess.

I bought mine for £65, a little more then $10 but it was new and unused (and still cheap!).
I bought it just because it was for sale and thought it would do until I got a bigger one.

Then I started building a tractor!


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> You can't go wrong for $10 I guess.
> 
> I bought mine for £65, a little more then $10 but it was new and unused (and still cheap!).
> I bought it just because it was for sale and thought it would do until I got a bigger one.
> ...


good deal, I might as well go for a new one!
S.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

bazou said:


> good deal, I might as well go for a new one!
> S.


Oh, just in case you misunderstood, £65 was the ebay bid I won the controller for, not manufacturer's list price. That is about 10x higher.


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