# [EVDL] Pricing for Valence's Epoch line of Lithium Phosphate



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not sure if this is on-topic.

As many are trying to choose battery packs, here is the pricing
(direct) from Valence for their most recent line of Lithium, including
their bat management unit.

EPOCH=99 cell
List Price
Present Lead Time

E1-12XP
$860.00
10-12 wks

E24-12XP
$1,900.00
10-12 wks

E27-12XP
$2,320.00
10-12 wks

EEV-18XP
$1,935.00
10-12 wks

EBMU
$450.00
10-12 wks

Ref:
http://www.valence.com/products/epoch_overview.html

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Has anyone actually used these in a conversion?
What sort of cycle life do they have and how far can you discharge them?
I have looked at these for a long time but they just are way way to
expensive... for me.
Wish had some though 

On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 3:53 AM, nicolas drouin


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm not sure if this is on-topic.
> >
> > As many are trying to choose battery packs, here is the pricing
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tehben wrote, "Has anyone actually used [Valence Epoch
modules] in a conversion?"

I have had their predecessor "U-Charge XP" modules in
my Mustang for almost 2 years -- see
http://www.evalbum.com/733 for details. The cell
banks are the same as in the Epoch, but they upgraded
their BMS.

"What sort of cycle life do they have and how far can
you discharge them?"

Per
http://www.valence.com/assets/pdf/vlnc_epoch_data_sheet.pdf,
2000 cycles to 100% DOD. 

"they just are way way to expensive... for me."

I compare battery amortization and charging cost to
gas price. I figured I would break even when gas got
above $6 a gallon -- a bit crazy in 2006, but not so
much any more. But that assumed that they will last
several years. They used to post 10 years down to 60%
capacity at 73F -- they don't post that any more, but
perhaps it's buried in one of the specs they claim
compliance to, I haven't checked yet. I have had two
cells lose capacity, one at 14 months and one at 21
months, but fortunately they promptly replaced the
modules under my 2 year warranty. But now I am having
trouble getting the capacity I expect out of the pack.
It looks to me like inadequate balance current in
their BMS vs. cell degradation variation. The
question is, would their new higher current Epoch BMS
be able to keep up, and if not, is it a cell, BMs or
application issue? I am troubleshooting this now and
plan to write an EAA Current EVents article on my
experiences once I've got this all figured out. 

If I can get even close to 10 years down to 60% out of
them, I will consider buying another pack -- they have
been great otherwise.

Chris Jones

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec. It seems like you
pretty much have to use the largest for a dc config or 300V of the
smaller on an AC drive to stay within the amp requirements.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 12 May 2008 at 10:43, tehben wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone actually used these in a conversion?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec.


Pricing is about the same (3,000 USD) for the LifeBatt
(www.lifebatt.com) with integrated BMS (VMS).

(Has anyone tested these LifeBatts?)

But, LifeBatt can continuously discharge at 12C (20C for 10sec, 5C
with no voltage sag). For their 144V pack which is 10Ah you get a
continuous 120A.

Paralleling 10 (540 lbs) of these bad boys for 100Ah can give you a
_CONSTANT_ 1200A at 144V. 10sec peak of 2000A! I just may have to
srping for the Zilla2k.

I can't wait for these to lower in price for my RX8 rocket.

Brian






> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec. It seems like you
> > pretty much have to use the largest for a dc config or 300V of the
> > smaller on an AC drive to stay within the amp requirements.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmm.. those packs are very attractively priced.. but there is something
odd about the pricing.. the 108v 30ah pack costs $2,250, and the 48v
30ah pack costs $2,760....

At least one of these figures has to be wrong I assume...




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Brian Pikkula
Sent: 13 May 2008 04:02
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pricing for Valence's Epoch line of Lithium
Phosphate

> I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec.


Pricing is about the same (3,000 USD) for the LifeBatt
(www.lifebatt.com) with integrated BMS (VMS).

(Has anyone tested these LifeBatts?)

But, LifeBatt can continuously discharge at 12C (20C for 10sec, 5C
with no voltage sag). For their 144V pack which is 10Ah you get a
continuous 120A.

Paralleling 10 (540 lbs) of these bad boys for 100Ah can give you a
_CONSTANT_ 1200A at 144V. 10sec peak of 2000A! I just may have to
srping for the Zilla2k.

I can't wait for these to lower in price for my RX8 rocket.

Brian




On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> > I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec. It seems like
> you
> > pretty much have to use the largest for a dc config or 300V of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Either they've updated the site, or you read it wrong.

It currently shows 108V @ 10Ah (not 30 AH) for $2,250

> Hmm.. those packs are very attractively priced.. but there is something
> odd about the pricing.. the 108v 30ah pack costs $2,250, and the 48v
> 30ah pack costs $2,760....
>
> At least one of these figures has to be wrong I assume...
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Brian Pikkula
> Sent: 13 May 2008 04:02
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pricing for Valence's Epoch line of Lithium
> Phosphate
>
>> I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec.
>
>
> Pricing is about the same (3,000 USD) for the LifeBatt
> (www.lifebatt.com) with integrated BMS (VMS).
>
> (Has anyone tested these LifeBatts?)
>
> But, LifeBatt can continuously discharge at 12C (20C for 10sec, 5C
> with no voltage sag). For their 144V pack which is 10Ah you get a
> continuous 120A.
>
> Paralleling 10 (540 lbs) of these bad boys for 100Ah can give you a
> _CONSTANT_ 1200A at 144V. 10sec peak of 2000A! I just may have to
> srping for the Zilla2k.
>
> I can't wait for these to lower in price for my RX8 rocket.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>


> > wrote:
> >> I still look at these as having a tight max amps spec. It seems like
> > you
> >> pretty much have to use the largest for a dc config or 300V of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > Either they've updated the site, or you read it wrong.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> sgomes wrote:
> 
> > Where are you guys reading these prices? I clicked on the
> > link in the first post of this thread and I can't find ANY
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Where are you guys reading these prices? I clicked on the link in the
> first
> post of this thread and I can't find ANY pricing data. Can you post a
> link?
>

http://www.lifebatt.com/
click on the big green circle labled "Retail Pricing"

These are the batteries we were discussing the pricel however, I don't
think these are Valence batteries.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I believe the discussion has shifted over to Lifebatt www.lifebatt.com



> sgomes <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrote:
> >- the site shows a picture of LiFeBatt's Las Vegas offices, with their logo
> > obviously photoshopped onto the photo. The building looks vacant...
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah it seems either im going mad or they have corrected their pricing
overnight.(hmm..) I spoke to their uk representative yesterday who is
extremely helpful, but also gave me much higher prices. a conspiracy to
make me look insane I recon.

Apologies to the list for bad data ;o)

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of sgomes
Sent: 13 May 2008 22:59
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pricing for Valence's Epoch line of Lithium
Phosphate






> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > Either they've updated the site, or you read it wrong.
> >
> ...


----------

