# Converting a 65 T-Bird Convertible



## Thunderbird65 (May 4, 2015)

Just looking for a few pointers about how I should go about this in the next couple of years. Some basic information about the car currently Approx. Weight 4,588 lbs, current engine 390 V8 FE with iron heads and manifold, 22 Gallon Gas Tank, Power windows, Seats, AC, and Power Steering. 

Now I know this is a heavy luxury car but I have been doing a little poking around and feel that I can make significant weight reductions. I have already removed the AC/Heater unit and all associated parts, change the power windows to manual, removed the power seat, and plan to convert to manual steering by the use of a Mustang II rack and pinion. I have estimated with the removal of the engine and convertible top along with these changes to have a reduction of 1,380 lbs. 

My main concern is making it work with an original 1966 C6 Automatic Transmission, and the total weight of the battery pack and size of motor I should install. I am really not looking for it to be a long range daily driver car but more of a weekend cruiser and possible parade car. I have never done anything like this but have owned 9 64-66 Thunderbirds. Any and all help wold be appreciated. Thanks! Here is a picture of the car in question.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like you are going to have a lot of fun.

What kind of help are you looking for?


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## Thunderbird65 (May 4, 2015)

Just really looking for a reality check on costs and what type of motor I should be looking for, type of battery pack, etc... Like I said never really have dealt with anything beyond the ICE engine.


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

Let's start with a realistic range, then average and max expected speed. The battery pack is usually the most expensive part of the conversion. 

As for the C6, That's a great piece as old school automatics go. But nobody has an FE bellhousing adapter plate ready made for it, If you want to go this way you would be in custom adapter territory, or looking for a small block C6, of which you can find adapters for. Plus there is the trick of idling the electric motor to maintain the transmission pump, or using an external electric pump when the traction motor stops. EV West has a pretty good solution using a Power Glide and an external pump (activated by an MSD RPM window switch). Theirs is a manual valve body, as you would expect on a race car. I would imagine you could get their style of powerglide with an automatic valvebody to work. There are millions of powerglide parts out there, I have to believe this is possible. 

User "EVmetro" is converting a formerly FWD Cadillac to IRS/RWD and I think he is going with the powerglide option too. Not sure if he solved his automatic shifting question though.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Get a full nissan leaf battery pack (24kwh), use a Z1K and a 9" or 11" DC motor. By the time you spec a decent charger and the other pieces, you are looking at a $15-20K conversion. It will probably perform better than the original engine. In around town or 55mph driving it will probably have about a 50 mile range.

many on this forum, self included, would strongly suggest converting it over to a manual transmission though. It is possible to convert with an automatic, but it is more work and most likely, less efficient. There are several threads dedicated to that subject.

Good luck.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

That's a classic- not my era or style for sure, but I'm sure it will be worthy of the considerable effort you'll need to put into it to convert it.

I don't know what to say about comparing the performance relative to the original engine, but a big DC motor and controller and a large enough pack to provide the current to drive that motor, which is what was just suggested to you, is likely the best way to go. The car is too big and heavy for the HPEVS AC motors to be of much use unless you go with duals, and that's very expensive.

Others can give you better advice relative to the auto transmission options. Personally I'd have no choice but to put a manual tranny in there. I'm sure it'll be the least expensive option. The energy wasted by that auto transmission on idling will cost you a lot of range or a lot of batteries.

Presume you'll need either vacuum or hydraulic power for brakes and steering assist, which adds some complexity and cost, but has been done many times and there is plenty of good advice available here on how to do it. EVMetro has gone the route of an electric assist steering on his Eldorado.


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

Moltenmetal said:


> ...EVMetro has gone the route of an electric assist steering on his Eldorado.


This is a good point, the in-column EAS (Electric Assisted Steering) can be added to a manual rack and pinion, so you have that as a future option. 

The point about using energy to idle the transmission is very valid too. 

I would like to bring up breaks. I'm not super familiar with the older T-birds, but they look like they are a disc/drum setup, with a single circuit master cylinder. Obviously you aren't going the purist resto route, so I would highly recommend upgrading the brakes and when/where ever do what you can reduce rolling resistance.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Thunderbird65 said:


> Just really looking for a reality check on costs and what type of motor I should be looking for, type of battery pack, etc... Like I said never really have dealt with anything beyond the ICE engine.


Defining your exact goals for the project is really important to come up with a plan. People that throw out things like 300 miles of range and 10 second quarter mile times on as cheap a budget as possible ($5000) are living in dreamland. If you decide you need a modest range of 40 miles and the capability of driving at highway speeds then we have something that is possible without dumping $50000 or more into it.

A car to drive in parades where you take it off the trailer when you get there and drive it perhaps 5 miles at a top speed of maybe 20 mph wouldn't even need a transmission and wouldn't need much for batteries either.

The first thing to do is figure out exactly how much range you need to do the things you want to do with the car. If you have one thing that needs a lot more range you might want to exclude that and perhaps trailer the vehicle to that venue rather than drive it there. Or if the long range thing you want to do would happen to have several hours at the halfway point to charge it might still be possible. Knowing how far you need to go will pretty much determine how much battery you need and will give you an idea of what you can expect to spend.


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## Thunderbird65 (May 4, 2015)

Thank you all for the advice, unfortunately converting to manual is out of the question as I would like to retain the stock interior as near perfect as possible. As for power steering I have found a person on the T-Bird forums who has fabricated a Mustang II manual steering rack and pinion to fit the 65 Thunderbird. I have already decided on changing to the dual master cylinder too as it is the safest option. On the cost note I only expect to travel about 50 miles or less on a charge and would hardly ever be going over 55 mph. So what would I be looking at in terms of battery pack size and an example of a decent motor?

Edit: Also this conversion is likely years ahead as I still need to actually repair the body, and paint the car etc...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Thunderbird
_Edit: Also this conversion is likely years ahead as I still need to actually repair the body, and paint the car etc... _

As you are years from needing the electric bits - don't sweat them - All you need to know is that your plans are "reasonable" now
Which they are!
Madder's selection of bits and price would be a good guideline
Because by the time you need the bits better bits will be available cheaper!

I wouldn't even worry about the auto trans - modern electric cars don't have gears - they just use a single speed
So you would be able to retain the interior - the auto selector would just sit there and look pretty (it would operate a switch for reverse)


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

On a rough wag, I would say you would need 24-28kWhs worth of battery pack. Knowing the rolling resistance and wind resistance will help make the calculations more precise. 

As far as keeping an automatic transmission that's not a problem. In your case I'm sure it would be easier to live with an auto than to convert to manual anyway (unlike my Mustang). I just think one of the modified for EV use powerglides would be a better fit for you than the stock (and probably very high mileage) C6. Plus you could make your shifter easily work and retain a mechanical reverse, instead of messing with contractors. 

For motor use that depends on if you want to go the DC route or the AC route. Read the wiki here for more details but here are the basic pros and cons:

DC: 
-A little lower $/KW 
-More forgiving on battery pack changes
-brush dust and a little bit of maintenance (cleaning the dust and checking the brushes
-lower continous power due to heat build up
-no regenerative breaking

AC
-a little more $/KW
-zero brush dust, maintenance may consist of replacing bearings sometime in the cars lifetime...
-less heat buildup on the highway (heat is the only thing that can kill electric motors)
-regenerative breaking

That said, I support the idea of having some kind of transmission, since you can almost cut your motor requirements in half, and have mechanical reverse. 

Let us know which motor style seems the most attractive to you, and we can help suggest a motor setup.


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

Man that c6 has no torque lockup and no way to add one. You would definitely need to go converterless or suffer a 15% drop in range straight off the top.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

More advice: (Sorry in advance to those my opinion might offend),

1- Use a DC system. Cost , simplicity and parts availability. 

2- Use a transmission, forget direct drive as your car is too heavy to get a decent acceleration and top speed with just one gearing. (Been there)

3- If you use an automatic, I would go converter-less with a small axillary charge pump. The system works well. TCI makes the pieces you need to do that to even an old C6.
(You might even trade the C6 for a really light C4 and TCI has more parts for those as well as a earier to find motor mounting plate.)
Yes, with the C6 you will have to make the motor plate adapter your self. You may find a pre made hub to work with the TCI direct drive shaft flange. as it can have even a Chevy flywheel pattern. 

4-If you use an automatic remember they were shifted by a vacuum signal. One that you now do not have...... the modulator will need to be somehow signaled to shift by a lowering vacuum signal. If you use an axillary vacuum pump for the brakes, you can rig up a rotary valve on your throttle linkage to perform this function when it operates the throttle pot. They will be synchronized on some sort of single linkage arm. (Never been done to my knowledge.) 

4-Remember, low weight will be your friend. (Weight will be your range, Get crazy when lightening it up.) Even to doing 1 Oz. of metal reduction and replacing steel with aluminum or plastic panels where ever you can. Use a 4" hole saw to the front cross-member if you don't remove it. (weight) You are not carrying that huge iron weight up there any more.

5-The rag top can be converted to manual operation. saving almost 200 Lbs in pump and crap. Been there also on a 1968 Fairlane rag top/390 HP/C6 car. 

6-Yes, try to use surplus factory EV car packs, it is a little bit more tricky than using aftermarket cells, but way cheaper. (Even 50%) There are some here doing it and can help you with details when you get ready.

7-Nice old car, I liked the old 'Birds.
Good luck to your project.

Miz


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Sam: he could use an AOD ford transmission. a 4 speed with lock up converter without a computer.....nice thought, but more expensive too.
Still have to work out the automatic shifting deal without a vacuum signal.
Miz


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