# Motor



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

You would need a high voltage battery pack as the vfd would run a dc bus of about 650v dc from a 440v ac supply. I looked at this option years ago as it uses off the shelf parts.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jokerzwild said:


> I just got an Mitsubishi VFD http://www.meau.com/Files/IB_NA_66658-D.PDF.
> 
> Now I am looking at an Baldor motor:
> 50 hp
> ...


Hi Joke,

Which size drive is it? And post the link to the motor, or at least part number.

440 volt AC motor.....You'll need like a 650 volt battery. Got that?

Regards,

major


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

What I am thinking of is 650v worth of 40AH lifepos or if Jack can figure out how I can use those c batteries?


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

major said:


> Hi Joke,
> 
> Which size drive is it? And post the link to the motor, or at least part number.
> 
> ...


Its the 400v class 45KW with a multiplyer of 150% for 5 min and 200% for .5 sec.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

Jokerzwild said:


> Its the 400v class 45KW with a multiplyer of 150% for 5 min and 200% for .5 sec.


All I know its a used 3-phase Baldor motor with the mentioned specs.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

It looks like I can run the drive at 200v at double the amps. I was looking at the motor it looks like a 230v/460v, hmmmmm. See attached.

I think I should try to find a motor that is around 200v.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jokerzwild said:


> It looks like I can run the drive at 200v at double the amps.


That is not usually the case. And does that nameplate say 326T. I doubt it weighs 220lbs.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

major said:


> That is not usually the case. And does that nameplate say 326T. I doubt it weighs 220lbs.


Its says 326TD and the guy said its about 220lbs, so I have to take his word for it.

I will read the manual and let you know what I find out if it can take both 200v/400v.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

Your right 240E which means 400v, so I guess I have to use 650v of batteries. LOL I think I have opened a can of worms! Do you know anyone on here that has done a 650v system yet? What is my life expectancy.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jokerzwild said:


> Your right 240E which means 400v, so I guess I have to use 650v of batteries. LOL I think I have opened a can of worms! Do you know anyone on here that has done a 650v system yet?


Yeah, maybe a few. I have. It is not something you treat lightly.



> What is my life expectancy.


I got no idea. But I advise you to stay away from that high voltage. 300 volts DC hurts, a bunch. Never tried 600. And don't intent to. 

Be safe, not dead.

major


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## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Hey joker, let me know what you come up with, as I have put myself in the same boat. I'm looking for vfd's that support a common dc bus and can have the mains sensing turned off. there are alot of industrial units that can do this. I'll be looking for about a 100 hp vfd to drive my 30 hp baldor. My 30 hp baldor is about 285lbs. How is youre 50 only 220?


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

I have not bought it yet thats his guess, maybe its a little more.

So whats your guys guess will I need a trans if I go with a motor with low rpm's. If so it would probably be better to get a 3500 rpm motor.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

few2many said:


> Hey joker, let me know what you come up with, as I have put myself in the same boat. I'm looking for vfd's that support a common dc bus and can have the mains sensing turned off. there are alot of industrial units that can do this. I'll be looking for about a 100 hp vfd to drive my 30 hp baldor. My 30 hp baldor is about 285lbs. How is youre 50 only 220?


My guess is that his is estimated at 50hp peak, and your baldor is rated 30hp continuous....


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## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Yup, mine is 30hp continuous duty and approx 120 peak. found some nice graphs on power and torque, but none show the power and torque when driven from a vfd.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

frodus said:


> My guess is that his is estimated at 50hp peak, and your baldor is rated 30hp continuous....


Usualy companies do not put there peak on the tag do they?

Im just trying to figure out if I need a higher rpm motor, or is this low rpm motor ok. I would rether not use a trans.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

Here is another picture of the motor.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Jokerzwild said:


> Usualy companies do not put there peak on the tag do they?


Nope, its continuous. Peak comes from their torque curves.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

I think I am going to go forward once I know if I can use a motor with this rpm range for freeway driving.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

i'd try and get a torque curve for the motor, that will be the thing that tells you if its got enough torque to move the car at such a low RPM.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

frodus said:


> i'd try and get a torque curve for the motor, that will be the thing that tells you if its got enough torque to move the car at such a low RPM.


It looks like such an old motor its probably hard 2 do, but for the cost and weight I think I will just get it and see how it does.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

Was just told motor was sold to someone else, oh well I guess that is telling me to go with a higher rpm.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd spend more time verifying that the VFD you bought will run off a DC-bus and can disable AC feed sensing.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

will do thanks


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

I am reading the Manuals and I like this unit even more

The spec sheets all talk about AC, but does not say AC only. What i have also read in 2 places so far is removing a jumper across 2 terminals to improve DC reactor or it will not work.

Also I can go 400% above rated power for a short run.


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## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Jokerz,
Check out this thread on the australian ev forum. It talks about changing the poles from series to parellel, effectively cutting the operating voltace of an ac motor in half. Not sure if current remianed the same or doubled. I think the config leaves it the same. 
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1237


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

few2many said:


> Jokerz,
> Check out this thread on the australian ev forum. It talks about changing the poles from series to parellel, effectively cutting the operating voltace of an ac motor in half. Not sure if current remianed the same or doubled. I think the config leaves it the same.
> http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1237


I need to change my drive to 220v,


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just an idea I kicked about a few years ago. Industrial ac motors in the states are typically setup to run on 220v or 440v. Inverter drives are also available for 220v operation. Now what about taking an inverter with a 220v output and say a 48v or 120v input (typically available second hand from telecom backup systems and ebay!) and tapping into its dc bus and taking that dc directly to the inverter drive. That removes the need for a high voltage bat pack. I never went any further on this as european ac motors above 3kw are 415v delta.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

If I can do that then I will try my Drive is 400v, do you think if I did this my system would still produce the right HZ needed to run the motor, I read that VFD systems can raise and drop the hz in parallel with the voltage. 1 thing is that they do have a 220v system with double the amperage so this might be possible. My only concern is after doing this I would just produce a drive that produced half the power. Once again I am just learning now and I can be way off.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Well the drive will look after frequency , voltage etc. It just wants to see dc input at a certain voltage. I doesn't care where it comes from. Mains or battery. Problem is that the dc bus required for a 440v drive is in the region of 650vdc and approx half that for a 220v. Whereas battery to mains inverters are readilly available with 220v output i dont think they exist for 440v.

I have an 11kw ac motor that i'd love to use in an ev.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Well the drive will look after frequency , voltage etc. It just wants to see dc input at a certain voltage. I doesn't care where it comes from. Mains or battery. Problem is that the dc bus required for a 440v drive is in the region of 650vdc and approx half that for a 220v. Whereas battery to mains inverters are readilly available with 220v output i dont think they exist for 440v.
> 
> I have an 11kw ac motor that i'd love to use in an ev.


For my 400V system do you think I can tap into its dc bus and taking that dc directly to the inverter drive, what you said about 220v.


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## samborambo (Aug 27, 2008)

Jokerz,

A mains supplied VSD has at least the following parts in its power circuit:

Mains input -> Filter -> Rectifier Network (and possibly PFC boost circuit) -> Hold-up Capacitor Bank -> DC Brake Chopper/Resistor -> 3 phase "Six Pack" Inverter -> Phase Current Sensors -> Motor Output

Remove the mains filter, rectifier and boost PFC and connect the battery directly to the DC bus. Make sure the battery has some form of (fuse) protection from the bus and also install a capacitor precharge circuit across the main contactor if the VSD doesn't have one.

If you've got some schematics of the VSD I can help with the detail if you need.

Sam.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

I have the data sheets,
I have the 400v system.
http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sit...ies=000152002520115&Line=00015200252011520735


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## samborambo (Aug 27, 2008)

That link isn't opening for me (it's session based)

Sam.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

samborambo said:


> That link isn't opening for me (it's session based)
> 
> Sam.


http://www.meau.com/Files/SH_NA_3194-A.PDF
http://www.meau.com/functions/dms/getfile.asp?ID=010000000000000001000000234000000


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