# [EVDL] (no subject)



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi all
wonder if people on this list could help. I'm building an electric motorcy=
cle from a 1991 Yamaha Ninja. Bought a book to help me... I think I would =
like to have more variety to choose from for batteries than run of the mill=
car batteries... would like to look into LiIon, NiCad and am still quite i=
gnorant of how many to use to get the power I want out of them. Any help o=
ut there, some direction.
Thanks
Robert
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Car batteries will not hold up under deep-cycle use, and will be a waste of =

money, even though initially cheaper.

LiIon is good for a bike, as you don't need so much of them to make it =

cost-prohibitive.

BTW: Yamaha doesn't make a Ninja, but Kawasaki does.

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Robert Smith" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] (no subject)



Hi all
wonder if people on this list could help. I'm building an electric =

motorcycle from a 1991 Yamaha Ninja. Bought a book to help me... I think I =

would like to have more variety to choose from for batteries than run of th=
e =

mill car batteries... would like to look into LiIon, NiCad and am still =

quite ignorant of how many to use to get the power I want out of them. Any =

help out there, some direction.
Thanks
Robert
_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger =

Caf=E9.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Um...First, wouldn't you actually have to OWN an EV to do that?
=

Second, I don't come here to watch you spar with the moderator. I come here=
for information. If you disagree with the way the list is run, then discus=
s it with the moderator offline, leave, or start your own list. You seem to=
enjoy the sound of your own keystrokes so much, that would seem to be the =
best solution.
=

Rich A.
=

=

>Message: 29>Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:41:25 +0200>From: Dan Frederiksen <d=
[email protected]>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] PLEASE NO ICE MOTORCYCLE DISCU=
SSION (Was Silent>vehicles)>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]=
sjsu.edu>>Message-ID: <[email protected]>>Content-Type: text/plain=
; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed >I'm all for being serious and on t=
opic David but try to realize that adding sound to an EV because it's too s=
ilent is an EV development issue.I've also considered adding a sound system=
with synthetic ICE motor sounds just to rub it in the face of ICE owners :=
) surely EV issues within reason.<snip>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not using a Raptor and probably have a different charger than you but h=
ere's how it's done in my E-Beetle:
=

The precharge circuit (2 60 watt lightbulbs) are kept separate from the pac=
k until I flip the toggle switch that's wired in.
The controller is kept disconnected from the pack by a Kilovac 200 contacto=
r (similar to the big Albright kind) and that's attached to the key switch.
=

Rich A.
=

=

Message: 25Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:44:29 -0400From: "storm connors" <storm=
[email protected]>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ground leak- solved- Raptor at rootTo=
: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>Message-ID:<f7ed9f6=
[email protected]>Content-Type: text/pla=
in; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Thanks Roland,Yes, I agree that keeping the contro=
ller isolated from the pack whilecharging is a good idea. That is why I too=
k your advice and put arelay on the line feeding the precharge portion of t=
he controller.With the precharge not connected to the battery pack, I got n=
earlyfull pack voltage between the pack positive and the chassis. When Icon=
nect the precharge to the pack the potential between the pack andthe chassi=
s goes away. This effect was also observed with the motor disconnected from=
thecontroller. Also note that the controller case is not connected to thec=
hassis. I guess I do not understand what goes on in the Raptor prechargecir=
cuit that could cause these seemingly bizarre effects.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tommey, sorry, but your reports of your motor experiments are off-topic for 
the EVDL.? Your posts cause a great deal of further off-topic discussion and 
are disruptive to the list.

If you have an EV or are interested in acquiring or building one, and wish to 
discuss EVs, then the EVDL is for you.? However, please find another place to 
post your experimental motor reports.? Do not continue to post them here.

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I hate to perpetuate a thread that appears to have no technical value to the forum but I really get frustrated when I see misinformation published at what is essentially a knowledge "watering hole". It's for that reason that I wish someone would crash the Wikipedia servers.

I digress- 

Michaela nobody watches racing or the space program for the purpose of deciding what "product" to buy. The advancements and developments gained by these activites are often not specifically told to the consumer. It's simply that when you go to a cell phone vendor, car dealer or computer/technology store you see laptops advertised with "Now, twice the battery life of our previous model!" or "We've improved our MPG and horsepower by 30%!" They don't bother to tell you that these advancements came about through racing development or whatever.

You say that you have no knowledge and no time to develop something for yourself that you NEED and that you are forced to sit on the sidelines and wait for someone to sell it to you. That is the surest formula for perpetuating the sale of a product that you DON'T need or want! The only way to force any company to build what you demand is to NOT BUY what they're currently selling.

Big Oil says "We can charge what we want because people HAVE to buy gasoline"
Big Auto says "We can build, sell and charge what we want because people HAVE to drive to work"
Big Utility says "Now that we've been deregulated we can charge what we want because people HAVE to heat & power their homes."

That's a bunch of junk. The individual consumer has more power over these seemingly unavoidable purchases than you think. 

Do you think we all come here with the know-how to build EV's? Many of us had never given it a thought until recently but we pick up a book and we READ. We inquire, collaborate with our neighbors, we make pests of ourselves, we learn. We take advantage of the greatest information and communication resource of our time- the Internet. We scrimp and save, and take time away from our jobs and familes to build these things because in the end, it's about freedom. I refuse to be oppressed by a company just as sure I refuse to be oppressed by a government. No one is going to tell me I HAVE to buy gasoline, a 13 MPG car, or even something as vital as electricity. I WILL free myself of these corporations, at least as much as humanly possible. I don't even have the luxury of living on a farm or a ranch far away from an HOA and all it's silly rules. I live in a townhouse in DC/Baltimore suburbs!

So how am I going to do this?

I'm going to fight my HOA and install enough solar panels to zero out my power bill (along with other power saving measures)
I refuse to buy another NEW vehicle until an AMERICAN auto manufacturer builds one that I want to buy. I will drive electric, ride the rails and recycle used vehicles until they do. I refuse to buy one from a foreign manufacturer even if a desireable model becomes available. I'll brew biodiesel or whatever I have to do to get by.
I'm going to take advantage of every new method that comes along. 
I'm going to nag my legislators at every level.
I'm going to read, read, read and learn all I can and much more.

I'm as short on time and as thin on knowledge as you are. Just because I'm not a farmer doesn't mean that I have all this extra leisure time to devote to research and development. I work 10 hours a day and waste 3 hours a day commuting. On top of all that, I'm a reservist so I lose at least one weekend a month and one month a year to military duty. Sometimes more when I get sent to the Persian Gulf on missions to "spread democracy" to people that don't want it and don't know what to do with it. Nobody said that being a free citizen was easy, convenient or cheap.

Whining that "I can't do that" just perpetuates a victim mentality that our government, special interests and corporations will continue to exploit. Well I'm done being a victim. This is my declaration, this is my manifesto. How about you?
Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html


Message: 16
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:59:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michaela Merz" [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV technology for the rest of us
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" [email protected]
Message-ID:
[email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Jim: I am not watching Nascar's truck races to help me decide what truck I am
going to buy for our ranch. EVers today have the same choices they had 4,
5 years ago - maybe even less.
VCR's and Lithium are not comparable. True - there's a lot of talk going
on about Lithium - but where can I buy 'em? Including charger, balancer
and with realistic price tags? I might be able to get them in 3 or 4
years. But Chevy may have the Volt available by then and other EVs/Plugins
maybe available.
It is not speed that matters to 'normal' people. It's range. I realize all
that 'you only need 40 Miles/day .. jada jada' talk, but people don't want
to be limited to a drive through the neighborhood. You know how to built a
better motor now. That's great. I'd rather see a motor available to me
(including controller) that would help to capture all that energy
converted into heat while stopping my lead sled. And yes, I know about
Zapi controllers.
I am sorry if it feels like I would be 'bitching' . That's not true. I
just need to rely on stuff other people are building. I can't do it
myself. I neither have the knowledge, nor the time.
So - I guess while you have fun going to the races, I wait until finally
somebody designs and sells an EV that makes sense, including a/c,
regenerative braking and advanced battery technologies.
Michaela
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>Am I understanding you correctly, that the circuit diagram for the Cursit
is
>incorrect? It seems to me that I have heard that on here before. The Dodge
>Dakota I am working on has a Cursit 1221B, so I need to know for sure!
>
>Joseph H. Strubhar
>
>So DID I overlook stuff that is a DUH! thing??
>
> Bob
>
>Tape off or heatshrink the A2 connection to insure that you don't get the
>idea that it needs something connected to it. (Ignore that part of the
>Cursit wiring diagram)
>
>.. And be sure you have at least a resister for a pre-charge or the caps in
>the controller will be somewhat shall we say "Stressed" each time you turn
>it on. Without the precharge they will fail, it may take many starts but
>they WILL fail.
>

YES!

You understood correctly, the Curtis manual in their wiring diagram shows a =

connection from the A2 terminal to the motor. That is fine for a forklift =

that uses plug braking but will not work for an EV. =


The connections that you will use at the controller are B- to the negative =

side of the pack, B+ from the main contactor AND to A1 of the motor, M- to =

S2 on the motor and jumper on the motor between S1 and A2 on the motor. =


The Curtis manual shows a wire between A2 and the motor. Don't connect =

anything to A2 at the controller or you will blow the controller! =


I recomend putting a piece of heatshrink on the A2 terminal to remind =

yourself that there is NO Connection to that terminal. Many of the =

controller manufacturers don't have an A2 terminal on the controller =

because they are manufactured expressly for road going EV's and not for =

forklifts. The Curtis was first designed for forklifts and EV's was a =

secondary use.

I will post my schematic for my Fiero on the EVAlbum. It will be wired the
same even though I am using a Kodiak controller that has no A2 terminal. =


Jim
http://www.evalbum.com/804

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well said, Richard. Your last paragraph sums up the fundamental
concern with our society.


-- 
David D. Nelson

http://evalbum.com/1328

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah..that's what I was afraid of. I don't have enough physical space to pa=
rallel 200-odd cells to get 60-70 aH of capacity. I have the dimensions of =
the cells. I can fit 10 units per battery cage and if I fill all 16 battery=
spaces that gives me 116 1.2v units. Even if I stepped my voltage down to =
106 units to match my present voltage I still don't have enough space to pa=
rallel 212 units to give me 128v and 60 aH.
=

Also, I'm willing to water over 100 units, but not over 200. I know that Li=
thium is the hot topic these days but I'm hearing a lot of static about hig=
h prices, dodgy manufacturing practices, and failure to honor warranties, p=
lus the added joy of pumping more of my hard earned dollars into another co=
untry's economy.
=

NiCad's have a proven record so I was just exploring the possibility. Looks=
like I'll be tracking Lithium's after all.
=




Message: 2Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:30:35 +0000From: damon henry <damonhenr=
[email protected]>Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Real" battery capacityTo: Electric Vehic=
le Discussion List <[email protected]>Message-ID: <BAY109-W86E5D02404F48506=
[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" becaus=
e if I understand rightly, the more amps you pull, exponentially your time =
gets shorter->> What if I draw 110 battery amps?> 220 battery amps?> You sh=
ould be able to draw 110 battery amps from a BB600 for 15 to 20 minutes. Ho=
w fast are you going with a 110 amp draw? If it is enough to keep you going=
30 mph then that gives you 7 -10 miles range which sounds in the ballpark =
for less than 400 lbs of Nicads - maybe more maybe less depending on the ef=
ficiency of your vehicle. You will certainly end up with substantially les=
s range then you had with your lead acid pack if you are only carrying 1/3 =
the weight of Nicads. By weight BB600s only give a slight range improvement=
over a warm lead acid battery though they are not really affected by the c=
old. I would expect that with 800 lbs of Nicads you would be getting closer=
to what your Lead Acid pack can do. The Nicads feel a lot better. They hav=
e a much stiffer voltage and you do not get slower as you drain the pack, t=
hat is until they are empty, then they suddenly quit on you. They also tend=
to last much longer then lead acid. Most people that use them are happy wi=
th them, other then the watering. They are robust, but don't hold the type =
of significant advantages over Lead Acid that Lithium does. damon

Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:30:54 -0800 (PST)
From: fsabolich <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] looking for charger
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

<snip>

The charger must interface to the BMS - the BMS must be able to control the
current and stop charging (zero current). The preferred method of
communication is CANbus but RS232 would be acceptable.

<snip>

Thank you,
Fran
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Fran,
I'm building a BMS just now. I suppose I could build CanBus into it because 
it is a master - slave setup, with each slave being very dumb. They are 
deliberately dumb and that makes sure that no slave starts issuing commands. They 
are connected in 'data-series' network.
I like the inbuilt safety featuire of this that if a message is not returned 
back to the issuing master than a fault is automatically declared, system 
integrity can be checked on a message-by-message basis, very simply.

Each slave can control the topping up of up to 6 cells, and provides 
feedback about each cells. Additionally, two temperature sensors can be connected to 
each slave.

Now, I had thought of making a smart charger, but now that I'm rolling my 
own BMS I am leaning towards having the BMS control the charger, switching the 
AC charger supply on and off via a power SSR, with suitable safety features. 
I've got some 100Amp SSR's which require a 4-20mA input signal to activate 
them. 

It might not be the greatest idea, and I am only working this into the 
design because the relays are to hand

I'm trying to keep an up to date blog here _http://tinyurl.com/2nqmag_ 
(http://tinyurl.com/2nqmag) 

Chris






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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, once you have a BMS you might as well use it to control charging.

Anyways, my first BMS design will use MOSFET plus resistor for each cell to
shunt current around the cell during the phase when the cells are topped
off, so I need to control charge current. The plan is to run high current
until the first cell reaches a certain threshold voltage, then lower the
charge current to equal the current that flows through the resistor once a
MOSFET is turned on. Therefore I need a charger where I can control charge
current (or at least have two current settings).

The BMS will control a relay between the mains and charger just for safety.

Right now I have plenty to keep me busy, the BMS design, the controller
design, etc. The last thing I need is to design a charger too. So, I'm
looking for a commercial charger.

Fran




> FixitSan wrote:
> >
> > Fran,
> > I'm building a BMS just now. I suppose I could build CanBus into it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Chris,
=

There's an easier way than doing the "charity" thing. Just offer to pay a f=
lat rate parking fee for the privilage of parking at their house or busines=
s. That way they're not "selling" you electricity, they're leasing you a pa=
rking spot.
=

I've found that most private individuals and small businesses are so fascin=
ated by what we're trying to do that they don't want any money, especially =
once they find out that you're only drawing about .50 cents a day. Big busi=
nesses on the other hand have turned out to be narrow-minded, complete assh=
oles in my experience. I mean, I understand that not everyone is going to b=
e an EV cheerleader and just give "fuel" away, but when they won't even dis=
cuss equitable payment it kind of boggles my mind that they would turn thei=
r noses up at a potential business opportunity.
=

=




Message: 35Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:02:31 -0500 (CDT)From: "Chris Simon" <=
[email protected]>Subject: [EVDL] Relying on the kindness of stranger=
s for opportunitycharging (was: Re: Battery Choice)To: [email protected]=
sage-ID:<[email protected]>Con=
tent-Type: text/plain;charset=3Diso-8859-1 Pete, I'm planning a conversion =
and have a similar situation where I might not be able to charge
at work. (Fortunately I have a shorter commute so I may just make it there =
and back.) However, in the event that my range isn't what I expect (or when=
the batteries get cold and
lazy in the Minnesota winter) my backup plan is to contact residents and bu=
sinesses near my
employer to try to work out a deal for electricity. (Obviously this plan do=
esn't work for
you if your commute takes you far from the power grid.) I would offer to co=
ntribute so
many dollars per month for the priviledge of charging using a 110 VAC outle=
t. My plan would
be to print a 1 page clever marketing page offering an "exclusive opportuni=
ty to help save
the planet!" by taking a CO2 generator (translated as ICE vehicle) off the =
roads. I'd
include a calculation of expected electricity usage so they'd know how much=
to charge, then
distribute to everyone for a few blocks around. (This may involve some walk=
ing depending on
how close the genrous folks live to my employer.) I believe that someone he=
re wrote that some states make it illegal for anyone but the power
company to sell electricity, so an alternate plan would be to make a donati=
on to the charity
of their choice for their kindness Has anyone else had success making su=
ch arrangements to facilitate a long commute? Would
you respond positively if you received such an offer? Chris Simon
Minneapolis



Rich A.
Maryland
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Damn Ken,

I'm glad to hear you tell this story. I was wondering what kind of life expectancy I should expect from my Zivan and I'm in Maryland. At least I have some cold winters to keep the charger nice and cool. If yours stands up to that punishment, I should be ok.




Message: 12Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:11:23 -0400From: [email protected]: Re: [EVDL] Zivan charger and Deka gel batteriesTo: [email protected], [email protected]: <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Well, for what it's worth here is my experience. I have the same NG3 with the same profile except the T2 current is 2.5 amps. The car is driven (aggressively) every day and gets three complete cycles each day - including the pulse phase.1) drive to work, charge. 2) drive to lunch, run errands, charge. 3) drive home, charge.Each charge runs all three phases completely. The "high" batteries reach up to 16 volts during the pulse on, near the end of the pulse phase (204 volts total). Note: as the dt/dv (rate of voltage change between pulse on and pulse off) decreases, the on pulses get shorter. Eventually, the pulses are just a few milliseconds long. Occasionally, the car will make a very short tri!
p or just get moved around in the driveway. It always gets plugged back in and the Zivan skips to the pulse phase. So, sometimes it gets extra pulse phase charging. No battery has ever gassed. This same routine takes place all year, cold and hot. It gets hot, here in Austin Texas. Often the Zivan would not charge after the drive home during July to September, because the ambient temperature is over 120 degrees. By ambient, I mean the car body, batteries etc. The pavement temperature is over 140 degrees. I would have to park in shade open everything up and put fans on it to get it under 120 degrees before the Zivan would run. At the end of each charging session after the Zivan turns off, the AH reads +2. Each morning, after the pack has sat for about 10 hours off charge, the 156 volt pack is sitting at 168 volts. With all this, I got well over 500 cycles out of the first set of Optimas. I replaced them with a set of Odyssey PC1200's. The original set of Optimas are still goo!
d and are being used as a stationary test pack for Hot Juice E!
lectric.
Ken




Rich A.Maryland
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well...not necessarily a "con" but this Mercedes probably has an automatic transmission, so this will make your conversion more complicated.
You basically have 2 choices...

1. Get an electric pump to keep the transmission fluid pressure at the proper level so you can use all of the gears.
2. Restrict transmission use to "1" and "2".

An electric motor has a different torque curve than the diesel engine, plus an electric motor doesn't idle so the fluid pressure drops away to nothing when you stop driving. It can be done though, others have. Hopefully someone will speak up on the matter.





Message: 14Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:06:12 -0700 (PDT)From: Heynow <[email protected]>Subject: [EVDL] Mercedes as a glider?To: [email protected]: <[email protected]>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am a noob, but I read "Convert It" and I have an electrical background soI understand the problems that an EV has with weight, range batteries, etc.

Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html http://patriotfuel.blogspot.com/
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

IIRC, the 240D usually had a manual transmission. It was the 300D's
that were only automatics. At least in the US.

Z



> Richard Acuti <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Well...not necessarily a "con" but this Mercedes probably has an automatic transmission, so this will make your conversion more complicated.
> > You basically have 2 choices...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> Well...not necessarily a "con" but this Mercedes probably has an
> automatic transmission, so this will make your conversion more
> complicated.


I would only try to convert a car with a manual Transmission. These were
ment to be economy cars (the 240D) so many if not all have a manual tranny. 
It may seen like I am trying to do something difficult, but the way I see it
, this should be easier to convert. (of course I am a noob!) I do have a
300D which is very similar so I can see what I think are some advantages. 
Much of the car works with vacuum, like the door locks and heater controls,
and brakes, so a vacuum pump would do many functions. They have manual
steering, which I see as a real plus, it will steer like a normal car with
no messing around with extra motors for power steering. The car is RWD and
the diesel is a very tall engine, so the electric motor would sit way down
low in the engine bay leaving lots of room for batteries in the engine bay. 
It has a huge trunk so there is room for batteries there as well.

My thoughts are to convert it now, and only use enough floodies to give it
the performance of a NEV. Then in a few years, if/when better batteries
ever become available, I could upgrade and have a pretty decent EV.

But again, I am a noob, and there might be something obvious I am
overlooking that makes this a bad project to take on. I appreciate all the
feedback

Thanks

Peter
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Heynow <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > the diesel is a very tall engine, so the electric motor would sit way down
> > low in the engine bay leaving lots of room for batteries in the engine bay.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Are you sure you want such a heavy and un-aerodynamic car to be the basis of
something electric? Even in diesel form it only managed 30something mpg...

Vacuum locks are the mose inefficient, vacuum motors are pretty expensive
and a solonoic electric door lock and stepper heater controls are a lot more
efficient, that's why all the german machinery use them now among other
reasons. Also your drive train has got a 90 degree kink in it - the back
axle - making it less efficient than a transverse engine layout. Expect
25-30% loss from your motor eaten up in the old heavy oil, non-roller
bearing gearbox with it's drag creating helical gears...

Of course if you really like the old mercs and you are only wanting to ever
go a very short distance (till they invent the flux capacitor battery) then
it's cool. Gonna cost you a fortune in batteries just to get a 10 or 20
mile range if my calculations are right 

Good luck though, you'll have something different that's for sure!

Greg.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Heynow
Sent: 11 April 2008 13:42
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] (no subject)



>
> Well...not necessarily a "con" but this Mercedes probably has an
> automatic transmission, so this will make your conversion more
> complicated.


I would only try to convert a car with a manual Transmission. These were
ment to be economy cars (the 240D) so many if not all have a manual tranny. 
It may seen like I am trying to do something difficult, but the way I see it
, this should be easier to convert. (of course I am a noob!) I do have a
300D which is very similar so I can see what I think are some advantages. 
Much of the car works with vacuum, like the door locks and heater controls,
and brakes, so a vacuum pump would do many functions. They have manual
steering, which I see as a real plus, it will steer like a normal car with
no messing around with extra motors for power steering. The car is RWD and
the diesel is a very tall engine, so the electric motor would sit way down
low in the engine bay leaving lots of room for batteries in the engine bay. 
It has a huge trunk so there is room for batteries there as well.

My thoughts are to convert it now, and only use enough floodies to give it
the performance of a NEV. Then in a few years, if/when better batteries
ever become available, I could upgrade and have a pretty decent EV.

But again, I am a noob, and there might be something obvious I am
overlooking that makes this a bad project to take on. I appreciate all the
feedback

Thanks

Peter
-- 
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/%28no-subject%29-tp16587575p16627777.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You know, I think that that car is a modified Avanti. The front and rear cl=
ips sure look like it. It's a fascinating specimen.
_______________________________
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:03:26 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Does this EV make me look ugly?
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: =

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; DelSp=3D"Yes";format=3D"flo=
wed" =


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D110252802342
________________________________

Rich A.
Maryland
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
http://patriotfuel.blogspot.com/




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The front does for sure,



> Richard Acuti <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > You know, I think that that car is a modified Avanti. The front and rear
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for the inputs, I can charge at work, the problem is the 20 mile run is almost all up hill. Looking at the EU3000i generator spes, it claims .47 gallons/hour at rated load, 23 amps at 120 volts. That's enough to feed the PFC 20 what it needs. The run would be less than an hour, that's less than half a gallon a day. This would be worse than burning ~1.2 gallons in my V8 ICE? I guess a catalytic converter makes a big difference. I will be trying a different somewhat longer, but less hilly route home tomorrow. Fortunately there are several charging stations I can stop at on the way home. I just don't want to make a 45 minute charging stop a part of my daily commute. Is there routing software out there that can route you around hills? I need to check the bicycle web pages and see if there's anything like that available. I use the avoid highway option regularly an avoid uphill option would be pretty nice if I can find it.

TiM




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Richard Acuti wrote:
> > You know, I think that that car is a modified Avanti. The front and
> > rear clips sure look like it. It's a fascinating specimen.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You could try this:

http://maps.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en-ch&answer=68476

It didn't work well for me- I was looking at the Seattle
"Terrain" view (I know where Seattle's hills are) and found it
difficult to discern the lines and shades. Your mileage may vary,
especially if you have a nicer monitor (mine is 8 years old).
If you find something better, please let us know! (Or me, at least 





> TiM M <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Is there routing software out there that can route you around hills? I need to check the bicycle web pages and see if there's anything like that available. I use the avoid highway option regularly an avoid uphill option would be pretty nice if I can find it.
> >
> > TiM
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:32:19 -0700 (PDT), TiM M <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks for the inputs, I can charge at work, the problem is the 20 mile run is almost all up hill. Looking at the EU3000i generator spes, it claims .47 gallons/hour at rated load, 23 amps at 120 volts. That's enough to feed the PFC 20 what it needs. The run would be less than an hour, that's less than half a gallon a day. This would be worse than burning ~1.2 gallons in my V8 ICE? I guess a catalytic converter makes a big difference. 

That EU, or any inverter generator for that matter, is poor economy for
battery charging. You'll have the generator either fully loaded or off so
there's no benefit to the variable RPM feature. Neither is the low distortion
sine wave of any benefit feeding a PFC20.

There are a number of limitations involved. Inverter generators cannot be
overloaded. The inverter protection circuitry trips and the generator has to
be stopped to resume generation. A regular synchronous speed generator, OTOH,
CAN be overloaded, sometimes significantly, without harm. This is especially
true if the output frequency and waveform quality doesn't matter. With the
adjustable current feature of the PFC, you can simply turn it to find the
maximum power point for your generator and operate it there. The frequency
may end up deviating significantly from 60 hz but that won't matter.

I do the same thing on a smaller scale with my RV. I drive a smart 80 amp
charger with one of those $100 1kw generators like Northern Tool sells. 80
amps at 14.5 volts, where the bulk/absorption transition takes place, is about
1200 watts into the charger. That's significantly more than the little
generator's rating but it handles it just fine. It slows a bit and the
frequency drops a few hz but it gets the job done. In contrast, a 1kW
inverter generator would have tripped off and would supply zero watts to the
battery.

Six months ago I'd have recommended one of the small diesel generators coming
out of China. Today with the wide price spread between gas and diesel, I'd
have to do some calculating. The diesel version will be more economical, more
reliable and will generally handle overload better than a gas version but
it'll cost more initially. I'd have to sit down with a spreadsheet to figure
out if the overall operating cost would be less. At the current local spread
of about 60 cents a gallon, it'd be close.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

set ev mail digest 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

set ev mail digest



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

set ev mail digest 



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> set ev mail digest 
> 

I'm sorry but I am too busy to compile the messages for you into a 
digest... <giggle!>

C

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

greetings,
i would like to unsubscribe from the list,

thanks,DJNC
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The BMW-EV 1976 conversion (for Sale) and 2 EVs from Jungle Motors 
will be at the Living Green expo 820 S El Camino San Clemente Sat. 
Feb 7.

Green ideas and materials along with Ed Beagley.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

greetings,where do i find said list?do you know where i can find plans for a pyrimid greenhouse?



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Paul-
How would I get a copy of your 144v controller schematic and
software? I'm far from a software expert (almost a hack) so would I
have to do any programming and if so, how would I so that?
Great accomplishment!!! Good luck.
Al




=

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
=Mayfooter51809NO115)
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Subject: [EVDL] Chevy/ GMC Trux, Steering boxes ??'s 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> 
Message-ID: <[email protected]> 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
reply-type=original 

Hi EVerybody; 

Anybody ELSE gotten involved convertying Chevy S-10's? Duh!? About the 
most popular truckee conversion out there. Question; Are ALL the steering 
boxes the same or easily swappable as to bolting in? We are thinking of 
putting a GMC '84 box into a 97 chassis. Hard to tell by just eyeballing
it. 
Anybody done stuff like that? What do you DO with the power steering box IF 
ya don't wanna use it, anyhow? I'm guessing you can't just remove the lines 
and just CAP it, we TRIED that! Fluid TRIES to get out the holes when you 
turn the steering wheel, as it is. IF you cap that ,I would think it would 
make it HARD to streer, IF it would? 

Personally, I would like to go manual, less crap to deal with and we're 
only gunna have 4 battery in the former engine room.Maybe it won't steer 
like a truck? 

Seeya 

Bob, EV meeting JUST starting up, beautiful day in CT!! 




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Continuing thr gm steering box if you have power steering just splice the
two lines together and the formerly powered box will steer nicely with a
little more torque from your arms. if you laiter add an electric pump for
the steering system the power steering works great. if driving unpowered
steering alignment is critical. I like 25%less than usual caster and half a
degree of tow in. IMHO Dennis
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

i have a question that i need answered,
i want to convert my car to electric, and i have a motor and an ac drive th=
at i have in mind. can anyone tell me if these items are a good idea to use=
thank you.
=

3 PHASE AC INDUCTION MOTOR
General Purpose High Efficiency Motor, Three Phase
Weg Motors W21
Manufactured by Weg Three-phase general purpose high efficiency motor Volta=
ge: 208-230/460V Available from 1/4 to 500 hp Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled -=
TEFC (IP55) water tight and dust tight enclosure 'C' flange ('C' face) - f=
oot mount style 'C' flange only or foot mount only available, please contac=
t us if required. V-ring slingers on both endshields (586/7 frame equipped =
with labyrinth tachonite seal as standard) All 3600RPM and 1800RPM motors a=
re supplied with ball bearings as standard. Roller bearings are supplied as=
standard on frames above 404T, 1200RPM and 900RPM 1045 heat treated and st=
ress relieved carbon steel shaft (4140 for roller bearing motors) NEMA dime=
nsions Class 'F' insulation for all frames Temperature rise: Class 'B' (80=
=BAC) NEMA Design 'B' (Design B torque rating on nameplate can be re-plated=
for Design C) Service factor: 1.25 up to 100HP 1.15 from 125HP and up Cont=
inuous duty (S1) 104=BAF (40=BAC) ambient temperature Altitude: 3300 ft (10=
00m) NPT threaded terminal box F1 mount Stainless steel nameplate AISI 316 =
with laser etching Color: RAL 6002 (Green) Automatic drain plugs - pressure=
compensated Regreasable bearings positive pressure lubrication system (fra=
mes 254T and up) Continous flow Class 'H' resin insulation system Gasketed =
conduit box Roller bearing models available MGI Part 31 rating for use with=
VFD - 20:1 constant torque speed range. Speed range can be extended with o=
ptional Blower kit
3 PHASE AC DRIVE
Sensorless Vector Micro Drive, Single or 3 Phase
Hitachi SJ200
Manufactured by Hitachi Drives New Intelligent Sensorless Vector Control =
=96 NO Autotuning Required! Up to 200% Starting Torque Most compact Hitachi=
inverter ever Advanced Logic and Calculate functions Removable terminal st=
rips for easy wiring Dynamic Braking transistor built in Advanced trip avoi=
dance functions Removable Keypad NEMA4X Remote Keypad option MODBUS RTU RS-=
485 built in Ratings 3 phase, =BD to 10hp, 460V
ACCES.
DC Link Chokes, 1000 Volts DC
MTE DCA Series =

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Morgan LaMoore <[email protected]>
> Almost all batteries of other chemistries are currently very small.
> I doubt many companies would recycle lead batteries if they were only
> getting 18650 up to D cells.
>
> Similarly, if/when large quantities of EVs use large-format Lithium
> cells, economics of scale will encourage their recycling.

Historically, even large lead-acid batteries were routinely thrown out as trash rather than recycled. It didn't matter than there was scrap value to the lead; people *still* threw them out because it was easier.

It took pollution laws that required them to be recycled to stop this. They imposed fines for improper disposal, *and* collected deposits when purchased that were refunded when the old batteries were recycled to "reward" consumers for doing the right thing.

I feel that without similar laws for other types of batteries, they *will not* get recycled.


--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

U2hvY2t3YXZlIE1vdG9ycyBpcyBwbGVhc2VkIHRvIGJlIGNvbXBldGluZyBmb3IgYSBncmFudCBm
cm9tIHRoZSBQZXBzaSBSZWZyZXNoIEV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgUHJvamVjdCEgVGhpcyBpcyBhIGdyZWF0
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IGFza2luZyB5b3UgdG8gdm90ZSBmb3Igb3VyIHByb2plY3QgZXZlcnkgZGF5IGZvciB0aGUgZW50
aXJlIG1vbnRoIG9mIEphbnVhcnkhIEFzIG91ciBjb21wYW55IGdyb3dzLCB3ZSB3aWxsIGV4cGFu
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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0gbmV4dCBwYXJ0IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCkFuIEhUTUwgYXR0YWNobWVudCB3
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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KfCBSRVBMWUlORzogYWRk
cmVzcyB5b3VyIG1lc3NhZ2UgdG8gZXZAbGlzdHMuc2pzdS5lZHUgb25seS4KfCBNdWx0aXBsZS1h
ZGRyZXNzIG9yIENDZWQgbWVzc2FnZXMgbWF5IGJlIHJlamVjdGVkLgp8IFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBo
dHRwOi8vd3d3LmV2ZGwub3JnL2hlbHAvaW5kZXguaHRtbCN1c3ViCnwgT1RIRVIgSEVMUDogaHR0
cDovL2V2ZGwub3JnL2hlbHAvCnwgT1BUSU9OUzogaHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLnNqc3UuZWR1L21haWxt
YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZXYK


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/543/wind-powered-car-s=
ets-records-in-a-3100-mile-road-test/


This is a practical self charging application. It is not the first. T=
here was =

the English Solar Van. But because it is so small it can charge faster u=
sing =

the wind turbine. Maybe faster if is was a water turbine. You'd need =
a source =

of running water close by though. Since air or better yet water are more=
energy =

dense this type of charger trumps solar. However in the doldrums you're =
out of =

luck. Combining the three would be great. Lawrence Rhodes...

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Help!

We are in dire need of a Hairball (for Zilla 2k), we have two Zilla's with =
two different Hairball types, we need another Hairball with the pot box opt=
ion, not the hep. Please, if anyone has one in stock used or new, contact m=
e. Our first race is on March 26th, 2011. Ron @ 860-301-6813 or [email protected]=
ail.com.

Thank you,


Ronald Adamowicz
President, Chief Executive Officer, Director =

www.IEDRA.net
www.GeoMetricMoving.com
Director
www.ECEDRA.com
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Mike etc,

Do you mean it fried when backing up or it was running retarded 10 degrees forward all the time? Inquiring minds would like to know. I'm leaning towards running my new 9" "Impulse" from Warfield go-ev.com neutral like my previous EV's at 120Vdc.

Best Regards,
mark 



> Mike wrote:
> 
> If anyone is interested, I have photos of the damage that can be caused when
> running a motor set for 10 degrees advanced in reverse. This was an
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My conversion is a Honda del Sol which natively runs clockwise. Almost
every other motor in the world runs counter-clockwise. When the motor was
installed, the cables were changed to run the motor "backwards" from normal
direction, but the timing wasn't changed. Thus it was always running
retarded 10 degrees. It didn't last long. This was at 144VDC.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 11:37 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Hi Mike etc,
> 
> Do you mean it fried when backing up or it was running retarded 10 degrees
> forward all the time? Inquiring minds would like to know. I'm leaning
> towards running my new 9" "Impulse" from Warfield go-ev.com neutral like
> my previous EV's at 120Vdc.
> 
> Best Regards,
> mark
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You do not mention cost as a consideration although I'm sure it is. If it were me and I could have either I would not go with the junior. 600 amps at ~150 volts will give you decent acceleration in a 3400 pound vehicle, but nothing to get excited about and certainly nothing worth showing off. I prefer a little more zip than that.
damon
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:23:40 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] soliton vs soliton jr on a warp 9
> 
> 
> 
> I will be running a Warp9 motor in my 1984 Jeep CJ7. I'll probably be around 3400 lbs.
> I'll likely run something like 50 CALB 130 Ah batteries.
> 
> My question is about the controller. Is the Soliton jr enough for me? Should I get
> the regular Soliton so that I can have a little extra acceleration? 
> 
> I was thinking I'd cap the motor at 800 amps after break-in for reliability reasons.
> 
> If 600 amps is enough, I might as well go with the jr.
> 
> thanks,
> -ben
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

i have a Kewet EV, ~1991-1993 age.
unfoetunately, while it has a VIN, I have no title, just a Bill of Sale
Maryland is extremely finicky about titles so to register it i need a title.
Any one have experience with

http://www.getnewtitle.com/maryland-lost-car-title-vehicle-title-replacement-service.html

or simliar?

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What state is the bill of sale from? If it is from a state that
doesn't issue titles on vehicles of that vintage, then you should be
ok. Otherwise, I believe there is a way to have the VIN checked to
ensure it's not stolen, then post a bond for a period of time. If
that is the case, a title service may be better than trying to work
directly with the MVA.

Dave

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 12:50 PM, robert winfield <[email protected]> w=
rote:
> i have a Kewet EV, ~1991-1993 age.
> unfoetunately, while it has a VIN, I have no title, just a Bill of Sale
> Maryland is extremely finicky about titles so to register it i need a tit=
le.
> Any one have experience with
>
> http://www.getnewtitle.com/maryland-lost-car-title-vehicle-title-replacem=
ent-service.html
>
> or simliar?
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Used car dealers have this sort of problem all the time, they are licensed
and bonded, go talk to a reputable one,(I know that sounds like an
"Oxymoron") and inquire to see if they can do the necessary paperwork for
you and get the valid title for you. (Might cost up to $1,000 !) Good-Luck
Dennis Miles



> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > What state is the bill of sale from? If it is from a state that
> > doesn't issue titles on vehicles of that vintage, then you should be
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If it's anything like Colorado, that is also very picky about titles,
you'll have to bond for twice the appraised value of the vehicle, do a
title search to make sure it hasn't been reported stolen, and such
stuff. Quite a pain. And I've been told that if it doens't appraise
at a high enough value here (I can't recall what number, but not being
in operable condition can also cause this) it can only get a salvage
title, not a regular title, even after the whole bonding process and
all.

Z



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Used car dealers have this sort of problem all the time, they are licensed
> > and bonded, go talk to a reputable one,(I know that sounds like an
> > "Oxymoron") and inquire to see if they can do the necessary paperwork for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you have connections with the former owner, they could ask for a
replacement title. Idaho is fussy with titles too, but the registered owner
of record can easily ask for a new title to replace a lost one. About $20
and 2 weeks.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:51 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] (no subject)
> =

> If it's anything like Colorado, that is also very picky about titles,
you'll have to
> bond for twice the appraised value of the vehicle, do a title search to
make
> sure it hasn't been reported stolen, and such stuff. Quite a pain. And
I've
> been told that if it doens't appraise at a high enough value here (I can't
recall
> what number, but not being in operable condition can also cause this) it
can
> only get a salvage title, not a regular title, even after the whole
bonding
> process and all.
> =

> Z
> =

>


> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Used car dealers have this sort of problem all the time, they are
> > > licensed and bonded, go talk to a reputable one,(I know that sounds
> > > like an
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm far from an expert on this. Certainly I've never had to do it. 
However, I've heard that some states are more lenient than others about re-
titling scrap or old vehicles. So the idea is to find someone to title the 
vehicle in a more lenient state. You sell it to him with the bill of sale. 
He titles it, then sells it to you with the refurbished title. 

More than that I don't know, sorry, but that might be the way the "title 
recovery" services work.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Luckily in California, I was able to retitle my 1964 car without too much
problem. The hard part, oddly enough, was keeping the original black CA
plates. In California they are a status symbol that can fetch hundreds
more dollars, as they imply the car has always lived in minimally rusting
California climates. I had to take it to the California Highway Patrol so
they could make sure it wasn't stolen. The CHP just called the DMV to
check so it was ultimately a waste of time for everyone. The entire
process took almost a year due to three month turnaround times from the
DMV. I find it odd that if I had just gotten new plates there would've
been almost no hoops to jump through.




> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I'm far from an expert on this. Certainly I've never had to do it.
> > However, I've heard that some states are more lenient than others about re-
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:24:43 -0700
From: Mark Warner <
>. It's a 1985 VF500 Honda Interceptor. I'm keeping an
online journal of the process, which is just getting off the ground now.
The link to the blog is here: http://evmotorcycle.blogspot.com/>

Hi Mark ,, I'm looking at a book right now called " The electric
vehicle conversion handbook" that was written buy a Mark Warner ,
maybe you? Nice book, looks well done .
I put together a bike using a lot of old parts with 72v pack of lead
, 8" fork lift motor with no transmission just chain gear on motor to
rear wheel . Its in the EValbum , simple set up and dose 50 mph fine.
good pick up , I have a 1250 amp 72v logic systum controller .

--
Steve
772-971-0533
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From: Willie McKemie



> , Rush Dougherty wrote:
> 
> > So again it comes down to heat. and how heat affects the battery life.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It could also be an instrumentation and or BMS problem. Why else would the
ending voltages of the LEAFs in the test spanned such a wide range when
they were all driven to turtle mode? In any case, I think Nissan selected
the wrong chemistry. LiFePO4 has a longer cycle life and as Willie's
conversion is showing.



> Steve Clunn wrote:
> 
> > From: Willie McKemie
> >
> ...


----------

