# Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

The DOD% is based on capacity at the load current, not capacity at 20
hours (which is what the Ah rating is).

If your battery is 220Ah at 20 hours, but at the current you use it
hits 10.5V after 110Ah, then 110Ah is 100% DOD at that load current,
and it will damage the batteries.

If you briefly pull them down to 10.5V while accelerating then use
less current, it's probably OK, but if the batteries stay at about
10.5V as you drive, then you're damaging the batteries.

To go with your analogy, 5C from a stoplight is probably OK, 5C up a
long hill probably isn't.

-Morgan LaMoore



> matt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> > Perhaps im again displaying my ignorance re lead batteries again,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Hi Lonnie.

I live in Crestline, so I know where you're coming from. That's also
why, after being on this list for over 7 years, I still don't own an
EV. Highway 18 is just a deal killer for me. I do, however, enjoy
living vicariously through others. 


Tim

> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:09:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Thx for explaining this . Problem is i have a hill here i cant avoid in
> leaving my home . i live up in mountain area at foothills .After i ie get
> out its all down hill to city .Im going to get gauges now .. I charged up
> pack last night with 2 amp chargers . Interesting is i hooked up one of
> those meters that tell you amount of KWH used etc ..Mine used less than 3
> KWH .At .13 per kwh cost me .39 cents ..One charger was acting weird
> though it has like 4 progress bars to full charge . It goes to second bar
> then skips other 2 bars and says full charge .May be bad battery or
> charger .Batteries have a 1 year guarentee [ then 2 years pro rated ]so
> thats good .
> lonnie ps hill im pulling is on youtube [ ac dc ev hill climb] video and
> amp burning hill .. youtube.com/lcalarea47
>
> matt
>> Hi Tom,
>> Perhaps im again displaying my ignorance re lead batteries again,
>>
>> But if a battery is rated as discharged as far as you should 80%dod.
>> And at a discharge rate of 1C that happens to be 10.5v.
>> Why would dragging the voltage down below 10.5v at say 5C load when the
>> battery is only at 50%dod a problem?
>>
>> It was my understanding that it was the depth of discharge (ie AH pulled
>> from the pack) that causes damage at low states of charge, rather than the
>> low voltage measured.
>>
>>>From your post it sounds like the other way round, is this accuarate?
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tom Parker
>> Sent: Thursday, 14 August 2008 9:42 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>>
>>


> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> Hi The first .5 miles leaving here is 2 hills .One at start then road
> >>> levels off then 2nd small hill ..Then road is slowly all down hill
> >>> rest of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Hi And of course Electric Vehicles usa told me . when i was ordering
parts [motor controller etc ] i explained i needed system to climb these
hills [ even made hills steeper ]..OHHH this will work no problem ..BUY
this etc ..etc etc .. Live and learn ...Im making another run at it
tonight with friend following me in my truck .. lonnie


Tim Clevenger
> Hi Lonnie.
>
> I live in Crestline, so I know where you're coming from. That's also
> why, after being on this list for over 7 years, I still don't own an
> EV. Highway 18 is just a deal killer for me. I do, however, enjoy
> living vicariously through others. 
>
>
> Tim
>
>> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:09:17 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>> Message-ID:
>> <[email protected]>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Thx for explaining this . Problem is i have a hill here i cant avoid in
>> leaving my home . i live up in mountain area at foothills .After i ie
>> get
>> out its all down hill to city .Im going to get gauges now .. I charged
>> up
>> pack last night with 2 amp chargers . Interesting is i hooked up one of
>> those meters that tell you amount of KWH used etc ..Mine used less than
>> 3
>> KWH .At .13 per kwh cost me .39 cents ..One charger was acting weird
>> though it has like 4 progress bars to full charge . It goes to second
>> bar
>> then skips other 2 bars and says full charge .May be bad battery or
>> charger .Batteries have a 1 year guarentee [ then 2 years pro rated ]so
>> thats good .
>> lonnie ps hill im pulling is on youtube [ ac dc ev hill climb] video
>> and
>> amp burning hill .. youtube.com/lcalarea47
>>
>> matt
>>> Hi Tom,
>>> Perhaps im again displaying my ignorance re lead batteries again,
>>>
>>> But if a battery is rated as discharged as far as you should 80%dod.
>>> And at a discharge rate of 1C that happens to be 10.5v.
>>> Why would dragging the voltage down below 10.5v at say 5C load when the
>>> battery is only at 50%dod a problem?
>>>
>>> It was my understanding that it was the depth of discharge (ie AH
>>> pulled
>>> from the pack) that causes damage at low states of charge, rather than
>>> the
>>> low voltage measured.
>>>
>>>>From your post it sounds like the other way round, is this accuarate?
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Tom Parker
>>> Sent: Thursday, 14 August 2008 9:42 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>>>
>>>


> [email protected] wrote:
> >>>> Hi The first .5 miles leaving here is 2 hills .One at start then road
> >>>> levels off then 2nd small hill ..Then road is slowly all down hill
> >>>> rest of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V
batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range
is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing
returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might
consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current
curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.


Tim

-------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less payload
and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which was close to
100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly KDH12600 [600 amp ]
.Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft ...Batteries are 12
volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries .Im not sure of specs on
batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco tommarow find out .Transmission
is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Another thing to try Lonnie is to try to push the vehicle. You should be able to push with one hand on the top of a tire and make the thing move without too much effort. If it's too hard then something is dragging.

You need to know the battery specs. Also, if there's any way to borrow a different controller that would indicate in which direction the problem lies.



----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Clevenger <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V
batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range
is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing
returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might
consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current
curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.


Tim

-------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less payload
and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which was close to
100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly KDH12600 [600 amp ]
.Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft ...Batteries are 12
volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries .Im not sure of specs on
batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco tommarow find out .Transmission
is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*



> [email protected] wrote:
> > Hi And of course Electric Vehicles usa told me . when i was ordering
> > parts [motor controller etc ] i explained i needed system to climb these
> > hills [ even made hills steeper ]..OHHH this will work no problem ..BUY
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

I did not follow the entire thread, so excuse if I
double up information...

Can you jack up the car so the driven wheels are free-rotating
and check if the controller can rotate them fast when just a
short blip of the throttle (do NOT overrev & splode the motor!)

If they rotate fast on jacks, you need some friction to test
the controller's amps capability.
If you can install some temporary wires from the motor into the
cabin, you can measure the voltage on the motor while driving
in low gear, in high gear and while climbing.
If your motor voltage cannot get anywhere near the full pack
voltage, then the controller is limiting the amps.
If this happens in (too) low gear and while not steep climbing
then either the motor current draw is excessive (dragging brakes?
mis-alignment? Too high gear? Wrong brush timing? find the cause
of the overload if this is the problem) or the controller is not
capable of delivering the amps that it is supposed to supply to
the motor. It is simple to measure how many amps are flowing to
the motor by taking the shunt resistor that you already should have
for measuring battery current and moving it into the motor loop
instead (or adding a shunt to the motor loop, shunts are not
expensive) then use a milliVolt meter to check the voltage drop
across the shunt when the motor current is flowing.
Some typical numbers: with a 1000A/50mV shunt you should see
25mV across the shunt at the moment that the controller is
supplying 500A to the motor. Battery current should be lower.
If you see full voltage on the motor but the car is not moving, 
then you are sure something is wrong in the motor.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040) 23117400x109 XoIP: +31877841130
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frank John
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 5:41 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

Another thing to try Lonnie is to try to push the vehicle. You should be able to push with one hand on the top of a tire and make the thing move without too much effort. If it's too hard then something is dragging.

You need to know the battery specs. Also, if there's any way to borrow a different controller that would indicate in which direction the problem lies.



----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Clevenger <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.


Tim

-------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less payload and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which was close to 100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly KDH12600 [600 amp ] .Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft ...Batteries are 12 volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries .Im not sure of specs on batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco tommarow find out .Transmission is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Hi thx 4 reply . Seems like rolls easaly . I may have found a problem
battery ? I fully charged battery pac [ i have 10 seperate chargers ] .
Then left sit 3 hours .Rebooted up chargers all but 1 battery came back
quickly to full charged state .The battery is like the middle one in the
pack .Its been recharging now for like a half hour + and still not full
charge Im only charging them at 2 amps -chargers can do 4 /6 amps also
..May be bad battery ? They was all all new when bought them .I called
battery place SELCO today but some kid working there didnt have a clue
.Knew cold cranking amps only [said was 866 ]. Said batterys are 31
series ? On batteries it just has Selco battery etc , made in usa , Power
master ..They are a large size . .The owner will be back in monday ...I
appreciate the help here .PS no i dont have a different controller to try
or know anyone with one .I was going to try again ie the hill ,but now i
know perhaps got a bad apple [battery ]..Perhaps i shouldnt try . lonnie

Frank John
> Another thing to try Lonnie is to try to push the vehicle. You should be
> able to push with one hand on the top of a tire and make the thing move
> without too much effort. If it's too hard then something is dragging.
>
> You need to know the battery specs. Also, if there's any way to borrow a
> different controller that would indicate in which direction the problem
> lies.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tim Clevenger <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:34:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V
> batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range
> is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing
> returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might
> consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current
> curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.
>
>
> Tim
>
> -------
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
> payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less payload
> and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which was close to
> 100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly KDH12600 [600 amp ]
> .Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft ...Batteries are 12
> volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries .Im not sure of specs on
> batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco tommarow find out .Transmission
> is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
> 3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Oh dear, d31s at 120v is a very small battery pack, for a car the size of a
jeep. 600lbs (272kg)
Even optima d31s arent good for much more than 30AH at 1C (75A) or faster
(at 80%dod).
30AH*120v=3.6kwh.

In thoery it would give you your 10-15miles range on flat ground (I think
this was what you were aiming for?)
The power available for acceleration is [email protected] per battery or 79kw at
the batteries.
But if you set 10.5v as the voltage limit, power available is only
450A*10.5v=4.7kw or 47kw for the pack.
However, this is only for a high state of charge and assuming the batteries
are as good as an optima yellow top d31.

So starting out the car should drive normally, but as you pass around the 5
miles mark, (ie 50%dod) performance will start to drop.
If the last couple of miles need to be up hill, then you are trying to do
this with a pack that can no longer put out the 47kw needed.

Basically, you need more battery for hill climbing.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 16 August 2008 8:26 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???


Hi thx 4 reply . Seems like rolls easaly . I may have found a problem
battery ? I fully charged battery pac [ i have 10 seperate chargers ] .
Then left sit 3 hours .Rebooted up chargers all but 1 battery came back
quickly to full charged state .The battery is like the middle one in the
pack .Its been recharging now for like a half hour + and still not full
charge Im only charging them at 2 amps -chargers can do 4 /6 amps also ..May
be bad battery ? They was all all new when bought them .I called battery
place SELCO today but some kid working there didnt have a clue .Knew cold
cranking amps only [said was 866 ]. Said batterys are 31 series ? On
batteries it just has Selco battery etc , made in usa , Power master ..They
are a large size . .The owner will be back in monday ...I appreciate the
help here .PS no i dont have a different controller to try or know anyone
with one .I was going to try again ie the hill ,but now i know perhaps got a
bad apple [battery ]..Perhaps i shouldnt try . lonnie

Frank John
> Another thing to try Lonnie is to try to push the vehicle. You should 
> be able to push with one hand on the top of a tire and make the thing 
> move without too much effort. If it's too hard then something is
dragging.
>
> You need to know the battery specs. Also, if there's any way to 
> borrow a different controller that would indicate in which direction 
> the problem lies.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tim Clevenger <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:34:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V 
> batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range 
> is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing 
> returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might 
> consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current 
> curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.
>
>
> Tim
>
> -------
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
> payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less 
> payload and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which 
> was close to 100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly 
> KDH12600 [600 amp ] .Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft 
> ...Batteries are 12 volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries 
> .Im not sure of specs on batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco 
> tommarow find out .Transmission is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running 
> clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
> 3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: 
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: 
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

I think perhaps i shouldn't have started this brain storm [plus add in my
lack of electrical knowledge ]. lol But im at point now its to late to
turn back time .Guess im over my head and in money on this . Ive checked
archives on adding batteries so i don't need to increase IE buy larger
volt controller .I have room to add batteries .So lets say i add 6 more of
these deep cycle batteries . T he 120 v are in series ,whats best way to
tie in the 6 new batteries ie paralleled ? Plus without buying a big
charger ? I got 1 charger per battery right now . I had 1 weak battery in
pack ,which is replaced now .IVE also ordered a Amp gauge ,shunt ,and volt
meter .To get some readings .. lonnie


Tim Clevenger
> I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V
> batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range
> is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing
> returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might
> consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current
> curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.
>
>
> Tim
>
> -------
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
> payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less payload
> and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which was close to
> 100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly KDH12600 [600 amp ]
> .Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft ...Batteries are 12
> volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries .Im not sure of specs on
> batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco tommarow find out .Transmission
> is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
> 3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Hi Lonnie,

If you have a 120V pack, there is no way you can keep that voltage while adding a few batteries.
You have two options:
- double the number of batteries and make two 120V strings parallel, so you have more current
- buy all new batteries of larger capacity.

In theory you could buy only 50% more batteries of double the voltage,
but due to the differences between the two batteries, you may or may not
be happy with the result.
Still you would have two strings of 120V, which can be paralleled.
You can't easily parallel a 120V and a 48V string for example.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040) 23117400x109 XoIP: +31877841130
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:57 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???

I think perhaps i shouldn't have started this brain storm [plus add in my lack of electrical knowledge ]. lol But im at point now its to late to
turn back time .Guess im over my head and in money on this . Ive checked
archives on adding batteries so i don't need to increase IE buy larger volt controller .I have room to add batteries .So lets say i add 6 more of these deep cycle batteries . T he 120 v are in series ,whats best way to tie in the 6 new batteries ie paralleled ? Plus without buying a big charger ? I got 1 charger per battery right now . I had 1 weak battery in pack ,which is replaced now .IVE also ordered a Amp gauge ,shunt ,and volt meter .To get some readings .. lonnie


Tim Clevenger
> I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V 
> batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range 
> is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing 
> returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might 
> consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current 
> curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.
>
>
> Tim
>
> -------
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
> payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less 
> payload and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which 
> was close to 100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly 
> KDH12600 [600 amp ] .Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft 
> ...Batteries are 12 volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries 
> .Im not sure of specs on batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco 
> tommarow find out .Transmission is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running 
> clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
> 3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: 
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

Thx 4 advice . Iwas also worried about kelly controller its rated ie 120
volt 136 volts max .But if my 120 volt fully charged is around 130 volts
. Is it pushing controller ? Perhaps schould i cut it down to two packs
of 108 volts ? I have the room and capacity to carry weight of . I was
hoping on 4 now yousing these el cheapo batteries [ 59.00 each ] . Perhaps
next year buy good batteries . But will i lose alot from all this added
lead weight ? PS im full of questions huh ... lonnie I did so far fill
up rear end and grease etc wheel bearings .Waiting on usps for amp
gauge/shunt etc etc .

Cor van de Water
> Hi Lonnie,
>
> If you have a 120V pack, there is no way you can keep that voltage while
> adding a few batteries.
> You have two options:
> - double the number of batteries and make two 120V strings parallel, so
> you have more current
> - buy all new batteries of larger capacity.
>
> In theory you could buy only 50% more batteries of double the voltage,
> but due to the differences between the two batteries, you may or may not
> be happy with the result.
> Still you would have two strings of 120V, which can be paralleled.
> You can't easily parallel a 120V and a 48V string for example.
>
> Hope this clarifies,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040) 23117400x109 XoIP: +31877841130
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:57 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>
> I think perhaps i shouldn't have started this brain storm [plus add in my
> lack of electrical knowledge ]. lol But im at point now its to late to
> turn back time .Guess im over my head and in money on this . Ive checked
> archives on adding batteries so i don't need to increase IE buy larger
> volt controller .I have room to add batteries .So lets say i add 6 more of
> these deep cycle batteries . T he 120 v are in series ,whats best way to
> tie in the 6 new batteries ie paralleled ? Plus without buying a big
> charger ? I got 1 charger per battery right now . I had 1 weak battery in
> pack ,which is replaced now .IVE also ordered a Amp gauge ,shunt ,and volt
> meter .To get some readings .. lonnie
>
>
> Tim Clevenger
>> I'd be interested in the model number of the batteries. 120V of 12V
>> batteries sounds like underkill for what you're trying to do. Range
>> is a function of weight, and while there's a law of diminishing
>> returns when it comes to hauling lead batteries uphill, you might
>> consider 20 6V floodies for your next pack. Based on your current
>> curb weight of 2,250 pounds, I'd say you need more lead.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> -------
>> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???
>>
>> Hi thx .. Its a 1982 usps am general [amc ] 2 wd . GVWR was 3350 ..
>> payload is 1100 pounds [including operator ] Curb weight [less
>> payload and operator ] 2250 lbs ... Ive removed the side doors which
>> was close to 100 pounds weight together . Controller is Kelly
>> KDH12600 [600 amp ] .Motor is a ADC #203-06-4001a -8 inch double shaft
>> ...Batteries are 12 volt large sealed deep cycle fork lift batteries
>> .Im not sure of specs on batteries are [forgot ] .I can call Selco
>> tommarow find out .Transmission is nissan 89 240sx 5 speed [ running
>> clutchless ]. Rear end is dana ratio
>> 3.08:1 .. Need any more info i will glady give it if needed ..lonnie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
>> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] help EV wont climb hill ???*

You still haven't given us the specifications of these "el cheapo"
batteries.

So far we know that they're group 31 batteries with 866 CCA, and you got
very short range out of them.

I'm suspicious that these are car batteries, not deep cycle batteries. Car
batteries (called SLI batteries) won't work well for EVs at all; they will
get very short range and will die after tens of cycles.

Find out more detail on the batteries before you buy more! If you buy twice
as many car batteries, you're just wasting your money.

-Morgan LaMoore



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Thx 4 advice . Iwas also worried about kelly controller its rated ie 120
> > volt 136 volts max .But if my 120 volt fully charged is around 130 volts
> ...


----------

