# Starting out



## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

So i plan on buying a car from a junk yard, taking out all the metal parts and leaving only the basic like wheels and steering wheel. Then i want to attach a DC motor (i would go with AC but AC is far more expensive and i don't have much money, I'm only 17 with a job where i make usually more than $100 a week.) to the back axle. Would having the dc motor directly connected to the axle work? In order to manage speed i was thinking of ringing something like a pedal with a switch like a dim switch that you put on the wall.

I need a good cheap motor and controllers and just the essentials. Any suggestions are extremely welcomed! Thank you all!


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2011)

Taking out all the metal parts will only leave you with some plastic and rubber from the tires 

Aside. Why take a stripped out vehicle like that? What is your purpose for this setup? I'd hook up any motor to the transmission because it will allow for better control. Direct takes away some gearing and makes things more difficult. Why are you wanting to build a junky electric chassis? Makes no sense? Why junk? 

Pete


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

OK then how do i go about changing/converting the car?
I get a car from a junk yard or a doner car...now what? I need basic newby help.
As stated i don't have too much money, and i probably won't build it real soon but theirs no harm in having the knowledge on how to do it. It's all for the leaning experience for me.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm going to move this thread to the conversions and builds forum.

Hunter, have a read of the 'sticky' thread at the top of the forum about where to start.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I'm going to move this thread to the conversions and builds forum.
> 
> Hunter, have a read of the 'sticky' thread at the top of the forum about where to start.


oh ok. sorry for the wrong location. Thank you!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I guess the simple way to start is to find the right car first.
Figure out what sort of car would be best suited to your needs, probably something small and lightweight, but also consider if you need luggage space, passenger space, etc.

Have a look in the garage to see what conversions have been built on the same car and what sort of cost and performance is likely.

Also find out where you can get access to scrap fork lift trucks local to you, a breaker of repair works may be able to help but also look for non runners or faulty forklifts for sale locally. You can then buy the whole thing and remove the parts you want before selling the rest.

Do ask for opinions here before you commit your cash to a purchase.

A low budget doesn't exclude you from making a good conversion but it does mean more time spent searching for good budget parts.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

So i get the motor from a forklift? Would that be cheaper than buying a new motor?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> So i get the motor from a forklift? Would that be cheaper than buying a new motor?


For your average car conversion you would look for a fork lift motor of around 9" diameter up to about 12" diameter.
There is a sticky at the top of the motors forum that tells you about using forklift motors but given a Warp9 is around $1800 but you can pick up a similar sized forklift motor for maybe scrap metal price or a little over.

I picked up an 11" motor still attached to an axle and with wheels, so I have the scrap value of 400lbs of steel, for £150 here in the UK. There is a fork lift breaker I know of who just has a warehouse full of motors for £300 a piece.

However you look at it that is a big saving that can be used towards buying a controller and batteries.

I would also suggest loking at the Paul and Sabrina Open Revolt controller kit.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Is a forklift motor strong enough to move a small car at 40 mph? Does it get good range? Is there a way to do regenerative breaking with it? Can you do regen braking with a permanent magnet DC motor?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> Is a forklift motor strong enough to move a small car at 40 mph? Does it get good range? Is there a way to do regenerative breaking with it? Can you do regen braking with a permanent magnet DC motor?


OK, lets thake this back a step.

You have a limited budget, forget regen. If you managed to get a return from it it would not be worth as much as the cost of getting it unless you lived in a really hilly area and drove a lot. An affordable motor is likely to be a series motor and so not really good for regen anyway. A PM motor would be better but will cost more.

A small forklift truck weighs maybe 3-4tons and will carry maybe another 2 tons. The motor will be plenty strong enough. You just need to run a higher voltage for speed and get the gear ratios right.
My 11" came out of a 4ton capacity truck.

Do have a look at the cars in the garage and see what they are using and read that sticky thread in Motors.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

You, Woodsmith, sir, are AWESOME! Thank you! Now to find a forklift dealer in Miami, FL. 
How much do forklifts run for? Oh and if there is no regen braking, does that mean i need more batteries for better range?


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

There have been builds done for around $500.00.

Search for threads by Stunt Driver ?/ and vpoppov. Both names might need a little changing to be correct, but, you need to do some research, first. 

These guys will be more than helpful, BUT, you have to read some threads, and have a better handle on what this involves. 

Lots of guys come on here and ask to be spoon fed. When they are told what I just wrote to you, some get indignant. Others go off and never come back. The few that take advice, and read and search, all have successful builds. 

I've been hanging around here, for over 2 years. Still don't have a build started, BUT, I'm getting closer. 

Some guys start out with a motorcycle build. It's cheaper, a bit easier, and more affordable, buying used parts off the Internet or scrap yards. Basics are pretty much the same. Do your research, then, come on back and ask away.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

My drawback is the money i have to put into this. I don't want to do a motorcycle cause i wouldn't use it cause they are more dangerous and well frankly i prefer cars. 
So basically i get a motor and put that onto the transmission while leaving on the AC, windows, dashboard? I don't need a suped up car, just something basic to get me from one place to the other and then later add in things. Any ideas who would be able to help me out with the removal of engine /engine parts?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Likewise I haven't much money and if you have a look at the two threads in my sig you will see what I am working with.

'Me Wee Beasty' is a tractor that I scratch built to learn about the process of using electric motors to drive stuff. I knew about as much as you when I joined the forum and had high ambitions. The ambitions are still there but tempered with a lot of learning and a little then a pinch of realism.
My Trike is the road going version I started because I found that I couldn't afford to convert a Toyota MR2. Well, I could afford to convert it but I couldn't afford the batteries to run it for my needs.

The trike is a cut down, light weight commuter that uses what I can get cheaply. I have an 11" motor for it because it will definately do the job, and some. I do have a 9" motor but as it was given to me to experiment with I may well pass it on to another more needy local to use.

My budget is zero. I scrounge, beg borrow and trade to get parts. As a part time trainee teacher my income is minimal but my hours long and trying. I still managed to scratch build a tractor pretty much from scrap metal yard finds and the Trike will be done the same way, slowly and cheaply.
Just about everything I have bought can be resold either as is or as scrap metal.

Now we know where you are based, someone else may be able to give you a pointer to a fork truck parts place. Keep an eye on Ebay too, fork lift motors, DC motors, EV motors, non runners, kit car projects, unfinished projects, etc and you may come across something that is useful.

The idea is to keep reading and keep looking. It often doesn't matter if you get a car or a motor first, or some other component. *But do read, a lot!
*
BTW, I'm not awsome, the likes of major, jackbauer, Tesseract, Qer, Jimdear2, Toddshotrods, CroDriver, gottdi, just to name a few are awsome. I'm just stuck indoors today with a bug that I am hoping isn't more then just a cold.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Im in Miami Florida. Is it illegal to use a go-cart on the road instead of a car? Building a go-cart or a trike would be much easier than converting a car. I might start with that.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, legal or not on the road it would be a good place to start.
You can pick up a small motor and controller and maybe a few lead acid batteries and have something you can buzz around a parking lot while you are learning how throttle pots work, and the importance of chargers, and what happens if the transmission fails and the motor spins to death.

That was what my tractor was for. I found out that a little 7" golf buggy motor on 48V was enough to pull wheelies until it smashed my Ransomes transaxle.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2011)

Hunter,

Go here: http://www.evalbum.com/ and use the search function to have a look at all the cars that may be of interest. Far more at this site than in our garage. Cost of forklifts are dependent upon how savvy you are at finding them. By all means take good photos (not from your phone) and post them with questions about if it would be good to use. Basically you want a motor of 9" average size diameter and a shaft that is a keyed shaft for ease of conversion. It can have a dual ended shaft. Shafts with splines are not a deal killer. But keyed are easier to deal with. Be sure your motor has dual brushes per brush holder. It needs to be a series motor with 4 equal sized terminals coming from the motor. From there you want to have a look at the commutator. Good photos come in handy here. You don't want it tore up but smooth and dark is ok. But we don't want burnt either. Many large motors are good to use and will usually live up to 5000 rpm and up to 144 volts. If you go with 120 or more volts you should advance the motor. Some motors have built in ability to be advanced or retarded or neutral. Some don't. Not a deal killer but again makes it harder to deal with the fork motors for your conversion. 

Choosing a vehicle is what do you want to drive. Not what is available. Drive what you like. I like the VW. My first was a Ghia and I am working on an MG and building a 67 VW Bus. So get what you want. Don't cut corners but be frugal and hunt for good deals and you can build a pretty nice vehicle. When you get your car, get one that is clean and not a rust bucket. In other words don't buy a POS that need thousands to restore just to daily driver status. Unless like me you want something that will require that if you can't afford the money up front. Costs of the vehicle will play a part in your total budget. Plan for it. 

Pete


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

What are "throttle pots" and what is it when a "motor spins to death."? (doesn't sound like a nice experience)


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2011)

Throttle potentiometers control the input signal for the controller to control the voltage into the motor. Do not run a DC Series motor with more than 12 volts under a no load condition. This is what happens. 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30174&highlight=puke

Pete


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

So a Throttle potentiometers tells the controller how much electricity to pass to the motor or tells the driver how much is being passed?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Hunter,
> Choosing a vehicle is what do you want to drive. Not what is available. Drive what you like.
> 
> Costs of the vehicle will play a part in your total budget. Plan for it.
> ...


This is a really good piece of 'starting out' advice.

Some people don't really care what they drive so long as it meets their requirements and so any rust free box will do. 
But if you do care then you are going to put a lot of cash or sweat equity into your vehicle and it is no good if you don't like it and lose interest. I didn't like the MR2 enough to spend on it but I am now building from scratch and will love it like my own child. Money and cost is much less of an issue and I am in it for the longer term now.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> So a Throttle potentiometers tells the controller how much electricity to pass to the motor or tells the driver how much is being passed?


This is why you need to read more.

We could 'spoon feed you' or you can read and find out some stuff.

Simply put, the throttle pot is the device that converts the movement of your 'throttle' pedal into a signal that the controller can use to drive the motor at the speed that you want.

Choose any build thread and start reading, read, read, read, and then when you come up with some terms that you don't understand ask for clarification.
This one by jackbauer is a good start but any would do.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh so its called a throttle pot! I was thinking of rigging something like a dimmer switch used for lights to a pedal or a pedal is the on/off switch then to dimmer switch then to controller. Thank You


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It is very similar in action but different in construction and use.

It is very literally a variable resistance, a potentiometer, that varies between 5kohms and 0ohms for most controllers.
It differs from a dimmer switch in that there is nothing else to it in the pedal whereas the dimmer has a whole load of electronics. This is because the dimmer switch only needs to control an ac current with only 500W at the end of it. The throttle pot needs to control the controller which will have many, many DC kW at the end of it.

Also the dimmer switch will turn through 270deg of rotation and the pedal only turns through maybe 10-15deg of rotation and has to do it many tens of thousands of times in its life with out fail.

Right, enough now, go read.
Also maybe buy a book like Bob Brant's Build Your Own Electric Vehicle.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Reading up on everything that was mentioned. One thing that bothers me is the brakes? If im going to build a go-cart, trike, or convert and old car...how do i brake?

And i need something like an amp and volt meter to know when my batteries are about to die. What do people commonly use?
Oh and DC to DC converter? Should i use one? Seems like using 2 batteries for the charge of 4 is a good idea.


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2011)

All cars have brakes. Doh!

How do you brake? Push the brake pedal. Doh!



> Seems like using 2 batteries for the charge of 4 is a good idea.


?????????????????


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

gottdi said:


> All cars have brakes. Doh!
> 
> How do you brake? Push the brake pedal. Doh!


But if i build a trike from scratch ima need to come up with some sort of braking system. Well i read about DC-to-DC converters, and if my understanding is correct they are like step up transformers, you put in a ceratin voltage and you get out a certain higher voltage. Is this correct?


heres one i found from 12v dc to 300v dc
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/181785-REG/PAG_9774_Car_Converter.html


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> Reading up on everything that was mentioned. One thing that bothers me is the brakes? If im going to build a go-cart, trike, or convert and old car...how do i brake?


Ummm, I'll take it that you are not kidding.
You would brake each of those in exactly the same way as any other similar vehicle would brake. The only difference is that in a heavier vehicle you would use an electric vacuum pump for the servo assist as jackbauer demonstrates in his thread.
Otherwise would I be right in assuming that you have little knowledge about how vehicles work.



Hunter2379 said:


> And i need something like an amp and volt meter to know when my batteries are about to die. What do people commonly use?


Lets cover that when we get to it.



Hunter2379 said:


> Oh and DC to DC converter? Should i use one?


Should you use one on a go-cart? No. 
On a road going vehicle it may well be a necessity depending on range.
Again, lets cross that bridge when you get to it.



Hunter2379 said:


> Seems like using 2 batteries for the charge of 4 is a good idea.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> But if i build a trike from scratch ima need to come up with some sort of braking system. Well i read about DC-to-DC converters, and if my understanding is correct they are like step up transformers, you put in a ceratin voltage and you get out a certain higher voltage. Is this correct?
> 
> 
> heres one i found from 12v dc to 300v dc
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/181785-REG/PAG_9774_Car_Converter.html


Whatever you build you will need brakes.
If you need to ask the 'how' then I would strongly recommend that you don't build a road going vehicle, stick to a fun kart for a bit of off road play and then convert a full size and complete vehicle later.

The DC-DC is usually used, in EV context, for changing the high voltage, 144V pack, down to 12V for the lighting, wipers and other car based requirements.

If you were to convert from 12V to 300V then you would have very little current. Those converters are usually used to convert your 12v ICE car voltage to something that you can plug your your laptop charger in to, or if you get a big one you may be able to run some power tools for site work.

However, the power, less losses, is the same in as you get out.
12V at 100A in gives you less then 120V at 10A out.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Otherwise would I be right in assuming that you have little knowledge about how vehicles work.


Bingo! I'm going to take mechanics next year in school but i have minimal knowledge of how they work. My main interests are computers. Mechanics, engineering, physics, and electronics are just a HUGE hobby of mine (I like building things and working with my hands). Like a second major i guess, and my first would be computers, but Im still in high schools so no college yet.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> Bingo! I'm going to take mechanics next year in school but i have minimal knowledge of how they work. My main interests are computers. Mechanics, engineering, physics, and electronics are just a HUGE hobby of mine (I like building things and working with my hands). Like a second major i guess, and my first would be computers, but Im still in high schools so no college yet.


OK, I can go with that.

However, do realise your limitations as to what you can and will achieve with what little knowledge you have at this stage.

If you have a little cash then look at getting an old invalid scooter or electric wheel chair and play with the bits in a soap box kart style, just so you get a feel for the making side.

Maybe you could use the scooter parts to make up a simple electric pedal bike to get you to school and to shops. Check your local legislation on what is allowed in your area.

What you should be doing now is looking to make a big version of the RC cars that you might have been playing with 5 years ago but without the RC bit and with you sitting in the driving seat.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

"no no brakes"....wow. see i don't want that, i want to have brakes and not have to screech to stop. 
it cost the guy $1500 to make the go-cart...that seems a little extreme for a go-cart. i did fine this monster scooter parts website though! So might just get one of those motors. will ask before i buy it though.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

If im going to build a go-cart to start off, should i go with 18, 24, 36, or 48 volt motor? They do have motor kits with motor, throttle, and controller! Would any of these be decent for a street trike?

oh and is 3 amp hour any good? How many amps or amp hours should i be looking for?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You definately want brakes.

The other option is to find an old ride on lawn mower with a dead engine.
Whip the engine out and replace with a small motor and pulley straight onto the belt drive. Add two to four batteries and a cheap controller and you have an (almost) instant EV. You can probably go to your local junk yard and buy some good used Optima 12v batteries for not too much money. It would come complete with seats, *brakes*, wheels, steering, etc.

In this case a PM motor would be better as it won't over speed like a series motor would.
Many mobility scooters have PM motors anyway so it would be a good parts donor.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Get a few electrical text books out and read up on electrical power (Volts, Amps, Watts) and then think about what terms Amp hours and Watt hours mean.

Consider that there are 746Watts in 1hp.
Volts x Amps = Watts
Watts is power by the way.

OK, enough free schooling now, it is midnight here and I need to sleep soon.
Also I expect the students I teach to do a lot of their own study and research and I will expect the same of you.

Treat the above as home work.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

So if i read correctly, 3 amp hours is an hour of work producing 3 amps. So if i draw 3 amps from the battery it will only last 1 hour before it is dead and i have to recharge. correct?

and a 24 volt motor at 21(rounded) amps would output 500 watts of power? which is the same as 1.5 hp? 

Let me know if i did my homework right?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> So if i read correctly, 3 amp hours is an hour of work producing 3 amps. So if i draw 3 amps from the battery it will only last 1 hour before it is dead and i have to recharge. correct?


Yes, that is right but in reality you wouldn't want to use all of the capacity in a battery as it will drastically shorten its life. For lead acid you would keep within 50% and for LiFeP04 80% of capacity.



Woodsmith said:


> Consider that there are 746Watts in 1hp.





Hunter2379 said:


> and a 24 volt motor at 21(rounded) amps would output 500 watts of power? which is the same as 1.5 hp?
> 
> Let me know if i did my homework right?


Hmmm, interesting arithmatic, you may want to submit a proof and then make a fortune selling the process.



I'm definately off to bed now.
Do more homework and lots more reading.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2011)

Got to school and get your degree in physics and get a damn good job and buy one already done. No need to muck around with stuff you know nothing about. Go Carts are cool but they need brakes too. You can buy the stuff you need. I'd not build those. Just buy them and install them according to your build. What you want is no easy task even with a go kart but it would be on a much smaller scale and with lower voltages too. Much cheaper to by your components. I'd suggest if you want to do a cart is go find a good racing style cart with no motor used on CL and go from there. Not worth the trouble to build one unless you have full access to a shop that can handle bending, jigging, welding and engineering that you'd need to do. I am sure your not in that zone yet. You can put together a nice cart if you piece it out and then assemble. A home built puzzle so to speak. 

DC DC is a step down. I am going from 112 to 13.6 volts. 

Pete


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Ima get a degree in computer information systems/technology. The reason i don't want to buy one is cause i like to build things. Heres what i found at a website:

Battery charger $45 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/12voltcharger4.html

Motor kit $100 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24-volt-500-watt-motor-controller-throttle-kit.html

Battery $70 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24vo12amphob.html

DC amp meter $30 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/dc-ammeter-0-5-amp-range.html

DC volt meter $30 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/dc-volt-meter-0-50-vdc-range.html

On/off Switch $6 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/...-mini-chopper-ground-force-pocket-rocket.html

pedal $20 - http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/minimoto-go-kart-accelerator-pedal.html

What I'm missing:

Brakes
4x Wheels
Transmission gear
Transmission chain
Steering wheel
Rear wheel Axle
Front wheel axle
Chassis
Seat
Control Panel


I need to learn how a steering wheel works, so if you got anything on that, such as a website, please let me know.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

So if my revisions are correct, 
500 watts = 0.670511045 hp
900 watts = 1.206919881 hp
1000 watts = 1.34102209 hp


And i want some high horsepower so for 
5 hp = 3728.499357911 watts
6 hp = 4474.199229494 watts

So it seems like i need to find a 5000 watt DC motor...AHH! 
Would 1000 watts of output be sufficient?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Hunter

_*What I'm missing:

Brakes
4x Wheels
Transmission gear
Transmission chain
Steering wheel
Rear wheel Axle
Front wheel axle
Chassis
Seat
Control Panel*_

What you do is you get a go kart with all of the above bits - but with a broken engine or a good one and sell the engine

Keep an eye out on e-bay or local papers -

*So it seems like i need to find a 5000 watt DC motor...AHH! 
Would 1000 watts of output be sufficient?*

1000 watts = 1kw, would be sufficient to have a small amount of fun
5000 watts = 5kw, would be enough for a whole lot of fun 

Best to start small and cheap -


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Duncan said:


> 1000 watts = 1kw, would be sufficient to have a small amount of fun
> 5000 watts = 5kw, would be enough for a whole lot of fun
> 
> Best to start small and cheap -


The motor on my tractor is only 3hp.
It ripped the transmission apart so you need to be careful of torque. Again, we'll cover that later on.

I would second the option of buying a working, rolling kart with or without ICE and convert from there. That saves you making up a load of safety related stuff that you don't understand yet and could leave you injured, or worse, injuring someone else.

Bear in mind that this is a forum offering help and support to those working on the electric element of an EV. If you need to know about 'How do brakes work?' and 'How does steering work?' then you need to find a different forum for that level of support alongside this one.

Also, you mentioned studying mechanics next year.
I'll say this one last time, read, read, read. You need to get reading more books, forget the internet, nothing beats a good old text book. If you are into making things and into cars then you should have been reading everything, magazines, picture books, text books, 'How To...' books, Haynes manuals, anything and everything to do with your interest.
By your age (and I am nearly three times your age) I had best part of 300 books on cars, trucks, engines, mechanics and passed motor vehicle tech exams with 100% on all the papers.
Nothing beats reading until you can get your hands dirty and then nothing beats experience, but that takes time to acquire.

You will need to be a little more proactive in your learning too. People here will get quickly fed up with the spoon feeding of every little bit of information.

Oh, one last thing. In that 'shopping list' you missed out the most important component of an EV, the controller.

Homework:
With your 24V 500W motor and 24V 12ah lead acid batteries what would be your run time at maximum power and 50% depth of discharge?


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

500watts / 24volts = 20 amps. Batteries provide 24amps-hour (not counting any losses) so a little over an hour? with the count of depth of discharge...1 hour or below? 

The motor comes with a controller, motor, and throttle.
Is 500 watts the max output, or if i provide more voltage/amps is there higher output? Or would the controller stop an exceed of 500 watts?
such as: 48V * 20A = 960 watts


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Missed the controller in the kit, sorry.

You don't have 24Ah, only 12Ah.
There are two batteries, 12V and 12Ah each. 
Put them in series and you will get 24V but only 12Ah.
Put them in parallel and you will get 12V but 24Ah.

So your motor drawing 20A will flatten the batteries completly in a shade over half and hour. Allow only 50% depth of discharge (DoD) and that is then reduced to around 15 minutes.


The charger is 12V at 4A and so it would take 3 hours to recharge each of the batteries in turn so you have a 6 hour recharge time from flat, or 1.5 hours each if you have only used 50% DoD.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Missed the controller in the kit, sorry.
> 
> You don't have 24Ah, only 12Ah.
> There are two batteries, 12V and 12Ah each.
> ...


WOW 
So im going to need 4 batteries. Two in a series connected by series to the other two which are connected in parallel?

Is 500 watts the max output, or if i provide more voltage/amps is there higher output? Or would the controller stop an exceed of 500 watts?


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hey Hunter, neighbor. I would have never thought it possible that a youngster from Miami would have any kind of technical inclination. Silicon is very popular here though. Boys carry it in their iPhones and girls in their...nevermind.

I'm not sure if you've given up on a real car yet but I'd take a second look. Don't go for a junker special. Buy a car you can drive so you can check the transmission, brakes, steering, etc. Check out Craigslist. But be wary of "excellent" shape claims. I bought a 1996 Cabrio last year and had to do a lot of work on it just to get it ready for a conversion. So much so that I came across another Cabrio in better shape and bought it. Now I have 2 mediocre ICE cars and no EV 

I'm not trying to discourage you from the Go Kart idea; there's a couple of indoor and outdoor tracks in and around Miami where you can ride. There are some really slick and fast electric go karts on YouTube, check them out. But if you're on a budget and just want to get started, I would consider a bike a more utilitarian first EV. You can't ride a Go Kart to the corner store but you can probably get away by riding an electric bike, especially if you leave the pedals in even if they're not connected. Cops have different takes on what constitutes a 'motorized' vehicle but bikes, especially electric ones (ie: no noise), will pass more often than not.

JR


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Would they get mad at a trike...like two wheels in front and one in the back? I dislike motorcycles cause they more dangerous and i flipped forward once and miraculously nothing happened to be, but i was going on an e-scooter.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

It's a matter of how easy they are to spot. A reverse trike will stick out like a sore thumb. 

JR


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Is 500 watts the max output, or if i provide more voltage/amps is there higher output? Or would the controller stop an exceed of 500 watts?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

From what I undestand, the controller will control, and limit, the power to the motor. The motor will just burn out if it gets too much.

Have a look at the controller forum and, using the search function, read stuff on the Soliton controllers, the Paul and Sabrina Controller, The open Revolt Controller (other name for Paul and Sabrina's work), and any other interesting threads.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Do you guys thing an axial motor with neodymium magnets would be strong enough to move a go cart? maybe even a car?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> Do you guys thing an axial motor with neodymium magnets would be strong enough to move a go cart? maybe even a car?


Depends on the motor.
The bigger ones should be able to but the little tiny ones wouldn't.

What sort did you have in mind?


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

I guess something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCu3_dVMERI&playnext=1&list=PL622BB22E4A492309


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

How many standard car batteries would i need to achieve 400 amps at 24V - 48V?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

2 and 4. Why on earth would you use standard car batteries? You will kill them in no time and will have wasted your time and money. No capacity compared to deep cycle golf cart type batteries. Do it right from the start. 

Pete


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> How many standard car batteries would i need to achieve 400 amps at 24V - 48V?


You would need two, three or four standard car batteries to achieve 24, 36 or 48V. Just about all standard car batteries will give you 400A, for about 5 seconds, three or four times a day for a year or two. Just about perfect for starting an ICE car at 12V.



gottdi said:


> 2 and 4. Why on earth would you use standard car batteries? You will kill them in no time and will have wasted your time and money. No capacity compared to deep cycle golf cart type batteries. Do it right from the start.
> 
> Pete


You need to pick and chose what sort of battery you need depending on the useage. Standard car batteries are perfect for starting ICE cars but useless for running an EV.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

If he is talking about starting batteries for his ICE he is in the wrong place and its not that hard to figure out. 12 + 12 = 24 or 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 48. Not sure why that one was asked. I must assume by the voltage requirements he is talking EV and not ICE starting. I know most starting batteries can belt out a whopping amount of amps but not for long. So the amp part is pretty moot. 

The question was pretty open ended and pretty vague and nothing about the application.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter is young and trying to learn about EVs. He hasn't got as far as batteries yet so, just as I was when I first thought about it, a car battery seemed a good place to start. Oh how wrong I was.
He'll learn, gradually, as he asks questions and we respond to them.

Hunter, have you bought that Bob Brant book yet?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

True but he can read and search like I did. I always try that first then come back after a good search and read. Usually the question is answered quickly before I have to ask. Reading gets me thinking and that leads to questions then a search to see if the answer is already there. Yup, usually is. It is good stimulating fun and a nice self paced course in all sorts of things. Math, physics, electronics, mechanics, and much more. 

I'd say what do you think? and what have you found out so far? Bet he already has the answer but may not realize it. 

It helps the teacher know what a student knows. Most know way more than they give themselves credit.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

I haven't yet, but hope to do it soon. So basically the book tells you what?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> I haven't yet, but hope to do it soon. So basically the book tells you what?


Oh come on!

Tell you what, get the book, have a read, read some of the suggested threads and then come and ask regarding what you have read about.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

> So basically the book tells you what?


How to build an EV! 

That you need to read a whole bunch of stuff before starting out. 

Really!


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

That's what i plan to do. But what i am curious about is if it tells me everything about converting a car? Sometimes names can be deceiving, never heard of "don't judge a book by it's cover"?  That's all im curious about.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Well thank you both for all your help!


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

What are your opinions on these motors?
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198
Agni 95 reinforced
D&D ES-31 
ADC L91-4003

I'm looking for a good $1000 motor. I also got in touch with this guy that says he can sell me a 8in Advanced DC motor. I'm not gonna buy anything yet, still doing research.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198

It seems like these would work well to move a car. Am i correct?


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

So my mom got me the book today and i'm on chapter 4. It's really interesting and i really like the book.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Ok i just came in contact with a vendor offering to sell 3.2v life po4 batteries. Now im confused because deep-cycle batteries are 12v. So why are lifepo4 more expensive????


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hunter2379 said:


> Ok i just came in contact with a vendor offering to sell 3.2v life po4 batteries. Now im confused because deep-cycle batteries are 12v. So why are lifepo4 more expensive????


The LiFeP04 technology is still new and so the manufacture of them and the probably the materials too, is still costly in comparison to lead.

It is a bit like asking why an Iphone is so much more expensive then a house phone handset.
They are both phones but work differently, do different things and contain different technology.

Agni motos are good, from what I have heard, but expensive and you will need more then one of them. They are generally used on motorbikes though I know of at least one small car and a trike that runs a pair of them.


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## Hunter2379 (Feb 5, 2011)

Ok so im on chapter 7 of the book you guys recommended. Would a fb1-4001a be able to move a pickup which weighs 3 tons? How about a small car at 1 or 2 tons?


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hey Hunter, I'll let the DC guys pitch in on that question but something tells me you'll need more than that motor to move a 3 ton vehicle. If you want to get a quick check on what works with what car, check out evalbum.com.

JR


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