# Need help with wiring a controller and bldc motor



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Hello,

I want to connect a BLDC motor (48 V 1500 W), with a Kelly Controls KEB48201X, 

I have not worked with wiring BLDC motors or any such motor controller before. I went through the manual for Kelly controls but, I am stuck with the main contactor circuit and other circuit related issues. 

I am having a battery pack of 24V, ordered a contactor rated at 48V from Kelly controls website, not sure if it will work properly with the supply voltage(just assuming it should work fine at any lower voltage than rated).

If anyone can guide me regarding this it would be a great help!

Thank You


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

This is hard to give help with because you haven't shown us where you're stuck, and we can't just do it for you.

Break down what you've attempted to do with pictures and whatnot, and show us where you're not sure where to proceed.

Otherwise the best answer anyone can give you is just to parrot the manual.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Yup, we need more info 
...a lot more info


Quick question:
Why would you/anyone purchase a 24V battery pack 
...to power a 48V motor?


If it does work (or function) it will only be able to give your motor ~50% of what it wants & is designed for
...a 48V battery pack is what you need


IIRC
You shouldn't need to use a contactor on a 48V 1,500W motor.


Contactors are usually only used on motors that are over ~3,000W


Since I can't direct you to ANY of my old threads (at the moment)


Here is a You Tube video of a go kart that I put a 48V 1,800W BLDC motor on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yzOS4cE424


Hope it helps


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

I contacted Kelly controls support and they sent me a simple wiring diagram without any contactor , telling me it is not necessary but they still recommended, but the user manual is having a wiring diagram with the contactor and precharge resistors in it.

Also I read about the precharge resistors and how it helps from damaging the controller, so I am confused to whether I should use it or not.
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25419

Simple wiring diagram that Kelly controls support sent me:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1As2ELO4MM_m0fojucVCVakkZjgE3Eo_d/view?usp=sharing


The wiring diagram in manual (page 11)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hrYGdSc35T8__r6XalLuN_EpIrhcTmeq/view?usp=sharing


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> Yup, we need more info
> ...a lot more info
> 
> 
> ...


If you have already got it working without the main contactor then I should be good without it .
So I am guessing the wiring will be pretty much similar to yours on Kelly controller too?

Also I am working on this project as a part of a summer program so, the guys here already had these controllers and motors used by a previous group, but the previous group could not get it working due to some problems, also there is no documentation made by them on what went wrong. 
Regarding the battery packs, that's all I have here that I can use around 36V if not 24 V is the max I can get the motor to work with.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

IIRC
Contactors are (usually) necessary or used for
...high amp systems (60V & up)
...or if, using big (high wattage) motors (over ~3,000W)


The specs says for your KEB48201X speed controller says:


"Supply current, PWR, 150mA.
...the speed controller (itself) draws 150mA.


"Controller Supply Voltage Range 18V - 90V"
...that's the voltage range that the speed controller can handle 


"Configurable battery voltage range,B-. Max operating range 18V - 60V"
...so, anywhere from 24V - 48V should power it


* Different manufacturers do things "differently"
...so, you/we'll have to go by the Kelly diagram


* I have had many conversations with Fran @ Kelly Controls
...she is very helpful (but, can't help everyone "step by step"
...that's what were here for (I think)


----------



## akshaysclone (Jul 10, 2018)

Hello,

Which diagram are you referring to that should be followed.

The simple wiring diagram or the wiring diagram from the manual?


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> IIRC
> Contactors are (usually) necessary or used for
> ...high amp systems (60V & up)
> ...or if, using big (high wattage) motors (over ~3,000W)
> ...


So should I just go ahead and wire up like the simple wiring diagram as suggested by the Kelly controls support ( Fany ).

As a newbie to this, this is really confusing with no clear and solid guides on which wiring to follow.
Could you please give any links to guides that we should follow to get this to work !
Thanks


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Actually both diagrams are about the same
...the simple one just doesn't show the contactor or brake connections


Look at the diagram on page 8 of the manual, it looks like

The bar connectors on the front of the controller are for your main or "Big Power" connections 
...that's where your power in (from battery pack) 
...& power out (to the motor) connect


B+ -connect to your battery pack positive (+) 
B- -connect to your battery pack negative (-) 
A -connect to the big motor wire (U/1/A phase)
B -connect to the big motor wire (V/2/B phase)
C -connect to the big motor wire (W/3/C phase)


The J1 plug is for your "Small Power" connections 
...that's where everything else connects


1. PWR: controller power supply
...is where you connect battery pack voltage (thru an On/Off or key switch) to turn the speed controller on or off


2. RTN: signal return, or power supply ground


3. RTN: signal return (GND)
...both are where you can connect any negative wires (to complete a circuit)

4. 12V high-level brake & motor temperature input
...connect to a Thermistor (motor temperature sensor)


5. Throttle analog input, 0-5V
...connect to throttle switch (signal)
6. Brake analog input, 0-5V
...connect to brake lever switch (signal)


7. 5V: 5V supply output, <40mA
...to supply 5V power (for throttle & brake signals)


8. Micro SW: Throttle switch input
…?
9. Reverse switch input
...connect to reverse switch

10. Brake switch input
…?


11. Hall phase C
...to small motor wire


12. Hall phase B
...to small motor wire


13. Hall phase A
...to small motor wire


14. RTN: signal return
...another GND (if needed)


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

The battery packs that I was given are rated at 12v with peak current of 10A,
of even if I connect 3- 4 of them in series to generate 36~48v, the max current that I will get is still 10A, will that be enough even to just start up the motor?


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

What kind of batteries are we talking about? 
...with a peak current of 10A?


I have pulled 100A out of (4) 12V 12AH SLA's (many times)


Also, what (make/model of 1,500W BLDC) motor do you have? 


Your speed controller has a max current of 160A & a continuous current limit of 60A


But, keep in mind that your 1,500W BLDC motor should draw about the same as the 1,800W BLDC on the e-Lemon-aid kart (in the video that I linked earlier) 


The meter showed that it drew 
...~30A @ take off
…& ~10A consistently


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> What kind of batteries are we talking about?
> ...with a peak current of 10A?
> 
> 
> ...


The batteries I have are universal SLA rated at 12v, ~30Ah and initial current rating at 10 A.


The motor is BLDC-108, 48 V 1500W
https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm
According to the performance report the motor draws close to ~35A on lower rpm operation, which is how I intend to use the motor.
Also is it possible to run the motor at rpms lower than those stated in the Detailed Parameters section RPM 3200- 5000 ?

Thank you for taking time and helping me out !


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Your very welcome

Those batteries should power that motor & controller, just fine

I don't have any knowledge of that specific motor
...but, (as I said) a 1,500W BLDC should have "roughly" the same characteristics/performance as the 1,800W BLDC (in the video)

Your motor may draw ~35A at take-off but should drop considerably once it's/your "up to speed"

The speed controller is how "you" control the RPM's of the motor

0 throttle = 0 RPM's = full stop
1/4 throttle = 25% RPM's = 25% available speed
1/2 throttle = 50% RPM's = 50% available speed
3/4 throttle = 75% RPM's = 75% available speed
Full throttle = 100% RPM's = max available speed

* Also, these Kelly controllers are "configurable"
...which means that you can "go in" & make adjustments

(don't worry about it right now, we'll get into that later)

Do you have the "programming cord" to connect the speed controller to a computer?


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> Your very welcome
> 
> Those batteries should power that motor & controller, just fine
> 
> ...


I have a programming cord for the Kelly controller, but I don't have a speed controller, I was planning to use the throttle input on the Kelly controller to control speed, I hope that's what you are referring to as speed controller.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

The KEB48201X is your speed controller (brain box) 
...it controls the power (amps) going into the motor, which dictates the speed (RPM's) that the motor turns.

You control the motor, thru the speed controller, with a throttle.
...that's what connect to the throttle input

The throttle can be either 
...a twist throttle (like on a motorcycle, on the handle bars)
...a thumb throttle (like on an ATV or jet skis handle bars)
...or a pedal throttle (like on golf carts)

Here is an example thumb throttle

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-36V-48...m=263553195645&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Do you have a throttle?


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> The KEB48201X is your speed controller (brain box)
> ...it controls the power (amps) going into the motor, which dictates the speed (RPM's) that the motor turns.
> 
> You control the motor, thru the speed controller, with a throttle.
> ...


Yeah I am having a twist throttle, I am almost done with the wiring for the motor, just left with getting a key switch for connecting between the battery pack and the B+, I was wondering if that is really necessary because I already have a contactor in place that can also act as a switch. But still going to get that switch just in case.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Yes, a switch between the battery & speed controller is necessary.
...it gives you the ability to turn the speed controller on or off.


It doesn't have to be a key switch, any 12V toggle switch will do
...as this circuit will only be carrying ~150mA.
(using a key switch allows you to secure/lock your project)

The contactor is a totally different switch
...it is a "big/beefy" switch between the speed controller & motor


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> Yes, a switch between the battery & speed controller is necessary.
> ...it gives you the ability to turn the speed controller on or off.
> 
> 
> ...


So I got everything connected according to the manual, and the connections you posted before.
The controller flashes red and then there is no led lights on, according to the manual the controller should flash red twice and then green led should stay on indicating normal functionality, but in my case the green led stays off.

I checked the manual for anything regarding this behavior and found that there is on line on page 11 saying we need to check continuity between PWR and Ground, but they did not explain what to do next.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13uROUmrujIx-e1o1Ge-3x8jRRD6fK7li/view?usp=sharing

Also the manual has pages of error codes but there isn't one that matches mine.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Well, that sucks!

I think you just found "the spot" where the other group got stuck 
(the one that was previously working with this controller & could not get it to work)

Are you sure the controller even works (Dumb question, I know)

I guess now, would be a good time to open a dialog with Fany @ [email protected]

Let her know "I think she's a her" that you followed the diagram, that she referred you to, explain everything that you have done & what happened when you switched it on.

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> Well, that sucks!
> 
> I think you just found "the spot" where the other group got stuck
> (the one that was previously working with this controller & could not get it to work)
> ...


I tried connecting it to the computer to see whether the controller is fine, and then I got the error code for low voltage and hall sensor error.
I shorted the terminals for MicroSW and RTN as shown in the wiring diagram with the throttle wiring, I got an error code for throttle voltage exceeding required voltage ( shorted microSW(5v) with rtn which is max throttle during controller startup according to the manual this must give an error code, which I could verify).


----------



## sadcar (Mar 18, 2013)

4x 12v batteries in series gives 48v that means neg from batt1 to pos batt2, neg batt2 to pos batt3, neg batt3 to pos batt4,
if 1 battery is given as 12v 10a the you have 48v 10a, for more amps you have to use larger batteries if you want to stay with 48v


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

IIRC
If the controller senses (receives) lower than required voltage 
...the "low voltage protection" function would "kick in" (no green light)
(to help protect your battery pack)

The green light only lights when everything is functioning normally
...it's main job is to tell you, "if" your good to go

1.) What is the voltage, that you have, going in to the controller?

2.) What throttle do you have 

3.) & how do you have it connected?


*It always makes me shiver when someone says "I shorted..."*

*NEVER SHORT STUFF DIRECTLY*
*...always use a small fuse (like 3A or 5A)*

That way, if it's a mistake (hopefully) the fuse "pops" & not the component that your testing your "idea" on


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

sadcar said:


> 4x 12v batteries in series gives 48v that means neg from batt1 to pos batt2, neg batt2 to pos batt3, neg batt3 to pos batt4,
> if 1 battery is given as 12v 10a the you have 48v 10a, for more amps you have to use larger batteries if you want to stay with 48v


IMO 
larger batteries would give more capacity
...but, not "actually" more amps

I have used many 12V SLA batteries usually from 12V 12AH up to 12V 35AH

The 12V 12AH SLA's say (on the side of the battery) "Initial Current (less than 3.6A)
...but, I have pulled nearly 100A out of them many times

There is a tremendous voltage sag (watch the meter in the video)
...but, they do it


Here is a video where I did some "against the wall" tests

The tests were to see what kind of amps a ZY1020 48V 1,000W motor would draw 
...but, it also shows what these small SLA batteries are capable of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVip7AKtHZg


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> IIRC
> If the controller senses (receives) lower than required voltage
> ...the "low voltage protection" function would "kick in" (no green light)
> (to help protect your battery pack)
> ...


48V going into the controller
I am having a twist type throttle like in a bike

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ba0KcBLKIahiacMqAJgnFz03fgbH2HxF/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g9Rnf4A1VrxZ7c8v2RGbii9UpTchgMSr/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ar_6uX320GZ15ZEWeEyNnY1Ue1Qtj_hl/view?usp=sharing

I had screwed in the connections properly during testing, I just took these pics after I had disconnected it from the batteries, that's why B+ and B- terminals are not shown screwed in.

These were the pics I sent to Fany(Kelly controller support)
The controller just flashes Red then there is no LED ON, ideally green should always stay ON
video -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GCUbenZ40oLmDT2aoNDFyx6rF-1VgAN6/view?usp=sharing

The green LED flashes green and turns off only once, if we try to power on the controller again on the same day it will never turn on the green led.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Maybe hook up your programming cord 
...go in & do some exploring
...just to see what everything is "set at"


Example:
If the "Low battery Cut-off Voltage" is set at anything higher than 48V
...you wouldn't get a green light @ turn on
...but, it should also flash a (1,3 red) error code


The manual covers 
...GREEN OFF (no power/switched off) 
...GREEN ON (normal operation)
...GREEN & RED are both on (software issue, too low or high of voltage or controller damaged)
...but, it doesn't mention a solid red error situation


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

So I tried connecting the controller with my PC as shown here,
http://www.kellycontroller.com/ConnectHelp.php

Now I get the error code for Hall Sensor error and low voltage till, green led is not solid ON as shown in the website.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApUrq55G9ocHlW_5xwDctMuH1fbo

I connected it according to the instructions in the manual, (B- is disconnected from the battery pack, only PWR and RTN connected).

It is even recognized by the software and I am able to change the config, low voltage is set to 18 V, I am applying 48 V so that is not a problem


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Speed controllers (most electronics) have "safe"/usable" voltage ranges 
...because the voltage changes as the battery is drained.

The voltage level of a 48V SLA battery pack goes from
...~53V (fully charged) 
...to ~40V (lowest level you can "safely" drain the battery down to without damaging it)

Safe voltage ranges
(for most SLA's)

12V = 10V - 13.3V
24V = 20V - 26.6V
36V = 30V - 39.9V
48V = 40V - 53.2V
60V = 50V - 66.5V

So, maybe try
...setting the low voltage ~40V & the high voltage ~ 53V

If you still get hall sensor error maybe 
...disconnect the throttle


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

Functional Artist said:


> Speed controllers (most electronics) have "safe"/usable" voltage ranges
> ...because the voltage changes as the battery is drained.
> 
> The voltage level of a 48V SLA battery pack goes from
> ...


Yeah my combined battery voltage is ~52.
The default settings in the controller is 18V for low voltage and 70V for high voltage.


----------



## aks895 (Jul 10, 2018)

So I finally got the motor working 
Seems only the green led is faulty (thankfully) as it sometimes lights up and goes off randomly with the motor still running regardless of the green led.

It was the throttle that was the issue, just replaced it with a simple 5K potentiometer and it started working.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17oU5i1MoiOUYWKVLfM0hYmbk_4FSEXjC/view?usp=sharing

And after this I connected the throttle to pwm output of Arduino to control the motor wirelessly and that too works. I hope giving pwm (max 5 V) to throttle pin wont do any damage in the long term (atleast till the day of the demo ).
I am applying just around 0.125V (max) through pwm to keep the max speed as less as possible, also I have programmed the controller to run at 50% speed.

How to electrically brake the motor with the current setup (without regen might not need that at the moment)? Right now I am just cutting of the pwm signal from the throttle (giving pwm 0% duty cycle) to stop the motor.


----------



## Functional Artist (Aug 8, 2016)

Kool, glad you got it going.


----------

