# Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*



> gottdi wrote:
> 
> >
> > Help! I am getting an error with my throttle.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

(Sorry, sent the previous one before I was finished.)



> gottdi wrote:
> 
> >
> > Help! I am getting an error with my throttle.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

I am getting one of two errors. If completely disconnected I get a throttle
sensor fault. Meaning its either hooked up wrong or the type is correct. I
can hook hall style up to the back side and the analog 0-5K on the front
side. It's the micro switch I think that is giving me trouble or the fact we
are doing this at half system voltage. I just may not have enough power for
the controller. I am getting the two errors. The other is odd because the
led blinks 4 then 2 times to indicate some problem. There is no code for
that particular order of blinks. But it does just that. 4 then 2. I think
it's a controller problem. Not fully sure but a good thing to know is how
it's actually wired. 

Pete : )

Hope that is enough info. If not I will try again better to help anyone from
understanding the problem. 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

According to http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/KellyKDUserManual.pdf
linked from
http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/Brushed-Motor-Speed_Controller.html
error code 4,2 means field error, and says:
a) the field current did not reach the setting (can be changed with config
software)
b) the field circuit is open.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

I would first get a volt meter and test the ohms. If it goes from 0 to 5k,
then just slide the two blade terminals over the two terminals on the
controller. They were on the front bottom I believe where the main battery
pack attaches power. I once used the kelly controller with a jack & heintz
motor G-29, but it blew it up on takeoff after some miles. Though it was
made for a serial motor and not a shunt motor. Last year I ordered a Curtis
PB-6 Pot Throttle 0-5K electricmotorsport.com. It had two connections coming
out of it. One was like 5k to 20k and the other was 0k-5k and both worked
just fine. Of course using the 5k to 20k wouldn't work with a controller. On
the back end was three bolts. Top screw is Voltage input from say 24V and
bottom screw is output to controller. Middle screw isn't used. My contactors
all have 60v coils and instead of rewiring the contactor coil to 24v I
instead used a 24v relay from controller that would turn on 60v coil.
Meaning peddle is pushed down and PB-6 microswitch positive hot send signal
to controller and then controller sends a negative signal to 24V relay,
which in turn activates main contactor. I remember that kelly's serial
controller controlled negative on the relay (aka contactor) and not positive
like alltrax. Also, even if a wire was connected from one terminal on the
controller to other terminal on the controller will make it boot up without
error. This is because a wire has resistance of 0, which means no error. 
Also, the PB-6 design should come with an adjustable connection for the
throttle. So all that is needed is to tighten two bolts and hang it with
some ties. I made a box for a geo metro and makes installation a lot easier.
I'll take a pic. of this. 
I got fed up of using controllers with the jack and heintz motor. So I built
a rectactor. I actually drove in 1st gear yesterday. I set field to constant
24V battery pack in parallel with main battery pack and it has a startup
adjustable resistor. Takeoff it limited to about 150-170amps at 12V and I
could lower this if needed. I don't have to use the clutch at all. Even
without rheostat, the takeoff jerk at 12V is not bad at all. My steps are
12V rheostat, 12V, 24V, 36V, 48V, 60V, 72V. I'll take some pics at a later
time. I did use quantity 10 400V 300amps diodes. However, when amps went
over 300amps the diodes buzzed and then went back to normal as amps lowered.
I know how to parallel them up perfectly, so I will do this tomorrow to
boost diode power to 200V 600 amps. My other 10 spare diodes are 200V 300
amps. A simple test down the road without buzzing will help support this
worked. I also had to put diodes across contactor coil to get rid of voltage
spikes and cannot detect them at all with lots of testing. Plus, there is a
450amp 400V flyback diode on motor too. The hardest part which I have been
working on for two months is the microswitch that slide as throttle is
pushed! So simple, but yet I never got it working that great! It has to
slide across 7 switches connections and touch each one continuously as it
slides. Problem was as machine bolts were tightened to maintain contact,
then the spring tension had to increase for the whole thing to go back when
throttle is released. It is working now, but I have to press pedal real
hard. I'll probably make a safety switch for main contactor. This way it is
loses contact, then I turn it on manually and don't get stuck on the road.
Of course motor will spin all the time a little, but not really that fast.
Guessing about 2mph tops in 1st gear ar 12V, 24v field. 






> gottdi wrote:
> >
> > I am getting one of two errors. If completely disconnected I get a
> > throttle sensor fault. Meaning its either hooked up wrong or the type is
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

I went through the configuration program and it is good. I double checked the
field and since it is a starter/generator style motor I found that I had
forgotten to connect the E- terminal with the A terminal before attaching
the field to the controller. I no longer get the field error (which it was)
but now I am getting two more errors. 

3 blinks 1 blink: The controllers reset times too much. (Default will
disappear after restart.)

3 blinks 2 blinks: Internal reset. (Reset caused by over current or so. It
is normal if occurring occasionally.)

With the field properly connected these keep coming up and not going away.
Mmmmm. Grrrrr.

So far no Fzzzztzzzzzz. 

: |
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

I am not getting any further than the last two errors I am getting. I double
checked the programming to the controller and that seems to be just fine. I
have triple checked the field and the main motor connectors. Kelly says to
use a 10w 300ohm pre-charge resistor. I have attached a 400ohm resistor but
have no clue as to the watts. It is old but it does work and registers the
proper 400ohms. I figured it would work just fine for checking. I do have a
300ohm 6w that was provided by Kelly. I am not using that as I am using my
old contactor just in case things go ftttttzzzz on me. So far the controller
is checking and not allowing thing to proceed to protect it's self from the
dreaded ftzzzztzztzztztszt . 

I don't understand that over current error as I am trying this at half the
pack voltage anyway. I am now guessing that it may be because I am only at
half voltage but the controller should run at half voltage. It is rated from
18 to 80 volts. Odd indeed. 

Any more ideas? I am now running out of light so I will button it up for the
night and try again tomorrow. 

Pete : |
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

Still no go with my initial testing of my system. However I have been in
contact all day with Steve from Kelly controller and we have been trouble
shooting the problem. I did find that my old contactor is shorted out. The
main part is still good but the 24 volt part is shorted and won't close the
contactors. It may be the whole problem. I did not check to see if it worked
or not before I hooked up everything. I am going to install my new Curtis
Contactor and see if the problem persists or continues. 

Kelly said they will check the controller out to see if there is any
problems with that as well for no additional costs except shipping. They
want it to work and this testing is critical.

Pete : )
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

You know the controller that might work better is a
http://www.zapi.co.za/zapi/sem2-3.htm Zapi SEM3 to be exact made in England.
I read an article pdf from 1998 where a car had been put together using an
aircraft generator back then with this controller. From what I've read the
field voltage shouldn't go above 36V, but maybe if amps are low enough a
higher voltage is okay. My motor a G-29 has this connection interface, see
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/881/w6936qi7.jpg . This is how I wire up my
motor. I used a seperate 24V pack. Both ground from main pack and 24V pack
are connected together and + on on different terminals. Also, I read these
generators have such a low inductance that it causes over current on startup
with the controllers. Alltrax told me quite a few people blew up controllers
using these so called motors. I also read that putting a coil from an EV
sized serial motor in series with shunt motor's positive armature will stop
this over current problem completely. If one is not available it can be made
using a carbon rod and wire around it. I'd ask more about this if you decide
to build one as I don't know how to. Basically making a serial coil from
scratch. The 400ohm 10w resistor doesn't matter. It just means it takes a
split second more to charge up the controller. This is only important if you
use another contactor to turn off this precharge contactor. The precharge
resistor's only purpose is to keep controller voltage the same as pack's
voltage, so there is no differential voltage spike on takeoff. I'd put a
diode across contactor coil to prevent voltage spikes. It means contactor
doesn't last as long and is slower, but protects controller. Looking at the
kelly's PDF I would connect battery + to B+, then connect battery - to B -.
M - on controller will connect negative on motor which is E. Also, make sure
you have a huge flyback diode on motor. Though not having shouldn't cause
errors initially. Okay, now look at pic I provided above. Connect F1 on
controller to A. I am talking about this image
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/881/w6936qi7.jpg. Now I would connect F2
the field negative to E, which is also connected to M-. This is how it needs
to be done. For some reason i believe there is a slight difference between a
pure sepex and shunt motor in how it is wired internally. Sepex motor's
field can take full voltage of armature, but a generator can't. Anyways, I'd
put a volt meter on field - E and + A and keep track of voltage. If field
goes above 36V I turn it off and see if you can change the programming to
keep it lower then 36V. It should actually start off high current and
voltage on take off and reduce current as you increase speed. Also, don't
put a jumper from A to B as this is completely wrong. I hope the controller
varies the positive with PWM on the field as this is what is needed.
Controlling the field's negative will never work with PWM since it is
already connected to M- and to E also and it is being pulse width modulated
already. This will just interfere with field control if it is done this way. 




> gottdi wrote:
> >
> > I went through the configuration program and it is good. I double checked
> > the field and since it is a starter/generator style motor I found that I
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

I already have a Zapi H3 controller. However it is a series controller with
regen for series motors with interpoles. Not for use with the
starter/generators. The controller from kelly is modified for the
generator/starter. 

Pete
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] PB-6 Throttle*

From: gottdi <[email protected]>
> I already have a Zapi H3 controller. However it is a series controller
> with regen for series motors with interpoles. Not for use with the
> starter/generators. The controller from kelly is modified for the
> generator/starter. 

The aircraft starter-generators I've seen *do* have interpoles. They work very nicely for regenrative braking.

They also have both series and shunt fields. They will work with the Zapi H3 if you connect the series field and armature to the controller like a series motor.


--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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