# Formula 2000 race car conversion??



## jlrj87 (Jun 30, 2009)

Hey guys! This is my first post so be gentle! 

I'm thinking of converting a Formula 2000 car (open wheel race car) to electric. But I have no real knowledge of where to start with motor choice, batteries, or the need for a gearbox... The current engine is 200bhp and I would want similar performance. It won't be running races anything like aslong as F1 but it would need to do probably 20laps maybe less. 

Cheap is also requirement  

I've been doing some research of my own, but just keep going round in circles! And then I found this place!


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

I can help you but ev conversions are not cheap.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

I really don't know anything about the performance of the car you're converting, if you could break it down into some concrete terms, we could probably be more helpful.

And cheap is relative, after all. Please define cheap. < 1k? Sorry, right out. <10k? Sure!


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## ftaffy (Mar 13, 2009)

At uni we converted a F-SAE (open wheeler race car that is abit bigger then a go -kart but has a body made of carbon fibre).

First thing you need to do is calc how much power you will need to a) achieve acceleration (kw) b) top speed (kw) and c) range (get a kwh rating).
For this can basically work it out using front area, rolling resistance, cd and what figures you would like the above to be. There are example calcs in the wiki.

You can then calc the motor speeds you will be looking at with various gear ratios. Once you know those you can create a spreadsheet of power required vs motor speed. Then get some values from suppliers and you can then work out if the motor will meet your requirements.

Once you have that you can go backwards to get a controller which will suit those power outputs need.

And finally you will know from your earlier power calcs what kind of batteries (discharge, size of pack, etc).

And then you have a solution.... thats the theory.

We just went along blindly and ended up with a car that was as fast and faster then the IC cars it was racing against. Lacked acceleration low down but got it higher up due to the controller being a road and not race ramp up.

Edit: This is not including any considerations for regen or the +/- for AC vs DC. Those you can explore all over this forum.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Since it's a race car you would need some light batteries. The best cells on the planet are A123 cells. You can buy them on e-bay. You would need a 500-1000 peaces to achieve some good range. 

I would use a Kostov or Warp 11" + Zilla Hihg Voltage controller. The motor is around $2.000, controller (if you can find one since they don't produce it anymore) is $3.000-$4.500.

That would be 300+ hp


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## jlrj87 (Jun 30, 2009)

I have been looking at the Headway Lithium batteries from evcomponents, I have also heard about those A123 batteries as they are the ones in the Tesla arent they? The ones on ebay seem to have very low Ah ratings are you sure they are the same as the ones used in EVs?

We did originally consider the kostov and warp motors, but after further research it seems that they would probably not cope with the abuse recieved in race conditions. Maybe an AC motor would be required? Does anyone have experience with using electric motors in this kind of environment?

The car we're converting we've actually changed from the original plan due to the very high weight of batteries required, the Formula 2000 chassis we had would not be able to cope with that kind of weight increase, therefore we have decided to use a closed wheel car thats much stronger. Similar performance would be required maybe more around 250bhp equivalent, but same 30mins race time.


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## jlrj87 (Jun 30, 2009)

Sorry its not the Tesla that uses the A123 it was West Race Cars and KleenSpeed Technologies that use the A123 batteries for their race car. 

Got so many EVs in my head from all the research, keep forgetting which ones which!


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I think an E-motor (with forced air or water cooling) would perform great in a road race...the more turns the better...

Coming out of every turn the EV would have 100% torque ready to pull you out, where as the ICE'ers would have to rev up a bit first...no?

Also, with a Regen system (kostovs regen too btw) going into that turn can regenerate some extra juice back to the pack...

You would need in my opinion, a high voltage system 300V+ and two 1000A controllers...

Evnetics is working on a controller right now for 200V/1000A 

1000A available up to 3000rpm

If a kostov-11 can produce 250ftlbs at 1000A, then at 3000rpm = 143HP

with two systems... 250 HP, is capable...

The Battery system would have to be very strong though to be able to withstand 2000A draws....


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## tomev (Mar 29, 2009)

hey man, well i can help you a bit but you may not like what you hear, to convert a late model open wheeler is a bit of a headache, to do it properly about $100000. no joke, im going to convert a dallara f304 car next year.
first and foremost.
the original ice is as you may or may not know a part of the chassis ,the engine is a stressed member. solution. get a sub frame welded up to join the gearbox to the monocoque.
an original gearbox can be used without a clutch if its a sequntial dogbox.you just knock it in gear.
im getting custom gears made to make it a 3 speed.

next where to put the batteries.
in the side pods, get casses made and evenly distribute either side, another part that will need strengthing, my way is build a frame that connects to subframe and sides of the monocoque but below the pods (so it looks nice).
another bigger problem is even if you use something like a warp 9 or 11, they will tear the gearbox apart as the torque rating is specific to the ice.

motors.
im using either a jim husted dual motor setup, modification to the plate at the back of the monocoque will need to be modified to make fit.
about 500 mm room between gearbox & monocoque.

a simple cuplink going from the drive end of motor to the input shaft of the gearbox ,see someone with cnc.


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## tomev (Mar 29, 2009)

or ill use a side by side setup ,try to keep center of gravity low as you can,im making something like otmars prrche,i may use chain and sprocket or gears.

and as for batteries, im using a123 m1's but ive caught a wif of the new prismatic cell from a123, 20ah 3.3 v looks like the go,unsure on availability and price.

to get a123 pack made contact hitech systems derek barger, im getting quoted atm.

the car should weigh the same as it was with the ice but even if you use 1 good motor, it will smoke the ice in usability terms and power terms, simply because of what i like to call tracktable power (how good it gets to the ground).

you will need to get gearbox beefed up, if its a hewland just go to the site and they have a special projects section, they can do it or ppg ,main office in adelaide south australia where i live. (shibby)

im using zilla 2k ehv, theyl start production soon.

i guess how fast you go depends on the cash you got.

jim husted told me that a guy got his dual warps dynoed, they wouldnt let him do it from a stand still but it got like 1200 ibs of torque, an f1 car has bout 500/600.

if you want any more specific help or pics just msg me and we can help each other out with the obstacles.

good luck.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I don't know if it is a "Formula 2000" car, but this university car might give you some ideas:

http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&a=1200



jlrj87 said:


> Hey guys! This is my first post so be gentle!
> 
> I'm thinking of converting a Formula 2000 car (open wheel race car) to electric. But I have no real knowledge of where to start with motor choice, batteries, or the need for a gearbox... The current engine is 200bhp and I would want similar performance. It won't be running races anything like aslong as F1 but it would need to do probably 20laps maybe less.
> 
> ...


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

Several universities had electric formula cars as part of the Formula Lightening Race program that died sometime in the late 90's. There is still some info on the cars/program if you google "formula lightning car". OSU's car had a custom made 3 phase AC motor and controller that was cooled with dry ice during races.


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## gte718p (Jul 30, 2009)

ftaffy said:


> At uni we converted a F-SAE (open wheeler race car that is abit bigger then a go -kart but has a body made of carbon fibre).
> 
> quote]
> 
> I did formula SAE for a couple of years before starting the Solar Car Team. I always though it would be a blast electrify one of them.


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