# [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Rick

The problem you'll face over here (US) is that everything has to be
"DOT approved." There are certainly cars coming out with LED
headlights, but that's a lot different than rolling your own.

Do you have any details of the LEDs they incorporate in their stage
lights? What wattage LEDs are they using? Lumens?

I've incorporated a few LED running lights in my car and would love to
do more. Maybe they'd make good driving lights, just not main
headlights.

Dave Cover



> Rick Randazzo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question ... =
> (of
> > course) - a friend of mine is working at a factory that makes LED s=
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Rick,
Regulations vary by state, and by vehicle type, for example in Florida,
Four wheeled or more motor vehicles must have headlamps compliant with
Federal DOT specifications, Motorcycles with 2 or 3 wheels meet a less
stringent requirement and low powered cycles only requirement is that the
red in the back and white light in the front must be plainly visible 500 ft
distant. so one usually sees bicycles with a flashlight clamped to the
handlebars. Personally I would try to find a front light with a Fresnel lens
for best visibility but the LED stage flood might work very well. Remember
the dual purpose of seeing the road ahead and being seen by approaching
drivers so they give you the space you deserve. A few extra reflectors can
add to the visibility by others and do not detract from style if placed
"Artistically" to follow vehicle lines. If licensed as a motorcycle follow
those rules, or as appropriate and if not excessive to a fault, multiple
accessory or "Clearance" lights just might save your life at night.
Regards,
Dennis Miles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Rick Randazzo <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question ...
> > (of
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here is a link for 7" round DOT approved LED headlights...

http://www.class8truckparts.com/TruckLite-7-Round-12v-LED-Headlamp/M/B002IFR
ROM.htm

They are about $300.00

Features :
DOT Approved, High Beam and Low Beam performance
Provides light output closer to the color temperature of daylight
Solid-state design resists damage from shock & vibration
50x longer life (10,000 hrs vs 400 hrs) than comparable incandescent lamps,
saving time and money
3-Year Limited Warranty

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Rick Randazzo
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?

i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question ... (of
course) - a friend of mine is working at a factory that makes LED stage
lights and i am wondering the fesability of using them for headlights....
http://www.theonelights.com/ just want to know how far out i am on this. i
bought an led flashlight and strapped it onto the front of my e-bike ( man i
like that thing more everyday ... i never dreamed i would ) that works great
but i live in a place that is mostly well lit... anyway- i wanted to bounce
this off you guys, thanks rick
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/515033030/LED-buggy-lights-last-longer.html
talks about LED Head Lights for Horse Drawn Buggies........me



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Rick,
> > Regulations vary by state, and by vehicle type, for example in Florida,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I went through the same debate with myself about LED headlights and decided
there was too much uncertainty about whether LEDs would really do the
job for that application. I also considered the DOT approval issue. My
goal was to reduce the amp draw on my accessory battery, so as a compromise
I put in Xenon lights which draw 35W rather than the usual 55W for Halogens;
they require some extra hardware so you can't just replace the bulbs, but I
decided it was worth the added expense. I've since discovered tthe added
benefit that they seem to give me better down the road vision than the
previous Halogen lights.

Am now looking into LEDs for all the other lights (turn signals, brakes,
etc.)

- Peter Flipsen Jr
http://www.evalbum.com/1974

>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Rick Randazzo <[email protected]>


> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question
> > ...
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, do not forget this. We did a car with all LED bulbs for turn signals
and brake lights and then stood around like idiots when the turn signals
would not blink. Whoops! The lousy part is that solid state relay boxes that
can handle LED bulbs are more money than older, traditional turn signal
relays. You can be cheap by switching either the front or rear bulbs to LED
and leave the others as incandescent bulbs. This is usually enough to make
the old style relays work properly.



> Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Hi Pete,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My concern is that (AFAIK) white LEDs still use a phosphor, and its output 
declines over time. Incandescent headlamps dim too, but not nearly as much.

Getting the heat out of high power LED has always been a problem, too. That 
suggests to me that their efficiency isn't as great as some people think. 
In fact, the really high efficacy LEDs are just now beginning to make their 
way out of the lab. Last I saw (generically at least), HID still beat them 
hands down.

This may change in a few years, but right now for high efficiency EV 
headlights, I don't think you're going to beat HID. But I could be wrong.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi,

I replaced almost all the turn signal, brake light, and marker lights on our cars with LED's and SuperBright LED's had a replacement flashing relay for about $12 or $14. 

I had tried to modify the stock unit, but it was not consistent, so the replacement unit was good to have.

In addition to the 7" "truck" LED headlights mentioned earlier (that the Illuminati Seven used, by the way), I have seen LED projector style headlights, as well.

http://www.class8truckparts.com/TruckLite-7-Round-12v-LED-Headlamp/M/B002IFRROM.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2arbkjz

> Yes, do not forget this. We did a car with all LED bulbs for turn signals
> and brake lights and then stood around like idiots when the turn signals
> would not blink. Whoops! The lousy part is that solid state relay boxes that
> can handle LED bulbs are more money than older, traditional turn signal
> relays. You can be cheap by switching either the front or rear bulbs to LED
> and leave the others as incandescent bulbs. This is usually enough to make
> the old style relays work properly.
> 
>> When replacing the turn signals, you will also (most likely) need to
>> replace the blinker relay. Most relays for cars use the current to
>> drive the amount of time a turn light is on...and since the LEDs draw
>> significantly less current, it can be a problem. There are several
>> replacement relays on the market though, so you should have no trouble
>> finding them.

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One of the significant advantages of eBikes is that they are NOT regulated =
by DOT, but by the Consumer Product Safety Commission -- so you can be a lo=
t more creative "rolling your own". You could put homemade LED headlights =
on THIS EV, no problem.

In Illinois, eBikes can be 3-wheeled, all-enclosed but have a maximum unass=
isted by pedaling speed of 20 mph if you weigh 175 pounds (if you're UNDER =
or OVER 175 pounds, there is no restriction, but if there's 175 pounds on t=
he seat, you can only go 20 mph). If you're pedaling, the top-end speed is=
not limited. 750 watt motor maximum, no restrictions on how MANY 750 watt=
motors ;-) Of course I'm not a lawyer and this is my bendy interpretatio=
n of the law on the books. It's pretty poorly written.

No insurance, plate/registration or driver's license required. Just gotta =
be 16 and you can't drive it on the sidewalk. 20mph is *fast* on a regular=
bicycle.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of dave cover
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 9:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?

Rick

The problem you'll face over here (US) is that everything has to be
"DOT approved." There are certainly cars coming out with LED
headlights, but that's a lot different than rolling your own.

Do you have any details of the LEDs they incorporate in their stage
lights? What wattage LEDs are they using? Lumens?

I've incorporated a few LED running lights in my car and would love to
do more. Maybe they'd make good driving lights, just not main
headlights.

Dave Cover



> Rick Randazzo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question ... =
> (of
> > course) - a friend of mine is working at a factory that makes LED s=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks I was aware of the need for electronic flashers when switching to led bulbs. Several of the websites selling LEDs have some pretty good info about making the switch. They've probably had to deal with returns from people expecting simple plug and play.

Peter 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Good info and advise as always Lee. I'm one who prefers the simpler approaches and it sounds like just using LED bulbs and electronic flashers for all but the headlights (where the Xenon bulbs are working) will do it for me.

Peter 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I bought an X21 LED flashlight (brand name LED Lenser, 21.5W, 1050 lumens) 
to experiment with. This produces more light than a normal car head lamp & 
has a an adjustable beam & two intensity settings. It is powered by 4 D 
cells so would be possible to fit in place of a head lamp & run two in 
series from a 12V system. One setting could be low beam, the other high 
beam. You could manually adjust the focus to suit driving conditions. I may 
use two of these next year when Ill be driving my EV from Melbourne to 
Brisbane where there will be some night driving in order to make some 
progress. Im going to attach them to the bonnet using suction caps and 
mounting frame. The claimed 300 hr per set of cells suggests that you may as 
well use the throw away cells or use NiCds or NiMH. When driving ill 
probably set them up as somewhat higher low beam lights & retain the normal 
head lamps to use high beam as needed. At $500 each they are too expensive 
to leave permanently on the car. David

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rick Randazzo" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:55 PM
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?

> i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question ... 
> (of
> course) - a friend of mine is working at a factory that makes LED stage
> lights and i am wondering the fesability of using them for headlights....
> http://www.theonelights.com/ just want to know how far out i am on this. i
> bought an led flashlight and strapped it onto the front of my e-bike ( man 
> i
> like that thing more everyday ... i never dreamed i would ) that works 
> great
> but i live in a place that is mostly well lit... anyway- i wanted to 
> bounce
> this off you guys,
> thanks
> rick
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 10 Dec 2010 at 9:12, David Sharpe wrote:
> 
> > It is powered by 4 D cells so would be possible to fit in place of a
> > head lamp & run two in series from a 12V system.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

As for me Ill just run the internal cells.
D

--------------------------------------------------
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:03 PM
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?



> > On 10 Dec 2010 at 9:12, David Sharpe wrote:
> >
> >> It is powered by 4 D cells so would be possible to fit in place of a
> >> head lamp & run two in series from a 12V system.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Guys,

Sorry, I know lots of folk poo-poo the benefits of LED lights as a 
replacement for filament on a power savings basis. Whilst I think 
having HID headlamps and LED front/rear position lights may be worth 
it, indicators are definitely not - especially if you are going to 
have to pay AND fiddle around changing the flasher relay! How much do 
you use your indicators? On an average half hour drive you probably 
only use a hundredth of a kWh of energy even with the filament bulbs.

Just not worth the candle.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



> Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> 
> > Hi Pete,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > ... My concern is that (AFAIK) white LEDs still use a phosphor, and
> > its output
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Martin WINLOW wrote:
> > Whilst I think having HID headlamps and LED front/rear position lights may be worth
> > it, indicators are definitely not - especially if you are going to
> > have to pay AND fiddle around changing the flasher relay! On an average half hour drive you probably
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you're looking for some low cost LED lights just to experiment with, you 
could try this,

http://volumerate.com/products.vr/just.released

or here,
http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.999


----- Original Message ----
From: David Sharpe <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 5:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?

I bought an X21 LED flashlight (brand name LED Lenser, 21.5W, 1050 lumens) 
to experiment with. This produces more light than a normal car head lamp & 
has a an adjustable beam & two intensity settings. It is powered by 4 D 
cells so would be possible to fit in place of a head lamp & run two in 
series from a 12V system. One setting could be low beam, the other high 
beam. You could manually adjust the focus to suit driving conditions. I may 
use two of these next year when Ill be driving my EV from Melbourne to 
Brisbane where there will be some night driving in order to make some 
progress. Im going to attach them to the bonnet using suction caps and 
mounting frame. The claimed 300 hr per set of cells suggests that you may as 
well use the throw away cells or use NiCds or NiMH. When driving ill 
probably set them up as somewhat higher low beam lights & retain the normal 
head lamps to use high beam as needed. At $500 each they are too expensive 
to leave permanently on the car. David

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rick Randazzo" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:55 PM
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?

> i know we face tough regulations and maybe this is a stupid question ... 
> (of
> course) - a friend of mine is working at a factory that makes LED stage
> lights and i am wondering the fesability of using them for headlights....
> http://www.theonelights.com/ just want to know how far out i am on this. i
> bought an led flashlight and strapped it onto the front of my e-bike ( man 
> i
> like that thing more everyday ... i never dreamed i would ) that works 
> great
> but i live in a place that is mostly well lit... anyway- i wanted to 
> bounce
> this off you guys,
> thanks
> rick
> -------------- next part --------------
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 10 Dec 2010 at 11:24, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> 
> > > ... white LEDs still use a phosphor...
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Since the flashers use relatively little energy and I didn't want to
have to change the relay, I replaced only the brake/tail lights with an LED
trailer light kit and used a small motorcycle flasher pod for the rear
signal lights. As another poster said, I was concerned with the heat and
cost of LED headlights and left those stock.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/album.php?albumid=98&pictureid=683


Finally plugged in,
John Nicholson

http://www.evalbum.com/2672

-- 
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Right you are David, a better choice would be two zener diodes in series
with a series resistance and connect a flashlight in parallel with each one
so the voltage stays relatively constant across each one.



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 10 Dec 2010 at 9:12, David Sharpe wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I am pretty sure using a current regulator made for LEDs is the better way
to go. No spikes, the right amount of current / voltage drop no matter what
the voltage might be.

I haven't seen anything written about how you are going to incorporate the
horizontal shield over each of the LEDs to make in so it won't blind
oncoming drivers. Sounds like a ticket in the making.



Sincerely,
Mark Grasser



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Dennis Miles
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 8:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [EDVL] led stage lights for headlights ?

Right you are David, a better choice would be two zener diodes in series
with a series resistance and connect a flashlight in parallel with each one
so the voltage stays relatively constant across each one.



> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 10 Dec 2010 at 9:12, David Sharpe wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Martin WINLOW wrote:
> >> Whilst I think having HID headlamps and LED front/rear position
> ...


----------

