# Any hope for all electric Aptera?



## donmurray (Jan 21, 2009)

Aptera has some savy investors (Google), so they may get to a profitable production point. Seems to be a very smart bunch running the company. A lot of original thinking has gone into the Aptera. I've been especially impressed with their emphasis on light weight and aero efficiency. 

All of us here know that solving energy issues requires efficiency and conservation as much as it does power generation. I don't think we'll ever see a big steel box EV produced in much volume. We will be forced to compromise on our ride style, stay home, pedal, or ride the bus. The reality of this will not fully sink in to most people until the next (bigger and longer) fuel crises comes along.


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## speculawyer (Feb 10, 2009)

I think there is more hope for the Aptera than for pretty much any other pure-EV. 

Batteries are still very expensive but to build a car that people will buy, you need to have a decent range (People are generally not going to buy cars with 50 mile ranges). The Aptera addresses these conflicting design issues by making the car extremely efficient. It has a very low weight and a very aerodynamic shape. This allows the Aptera to achieve an acceptable range without breaking the bank such as the $109K Tesla. 

One of the few other pure-EVs out there is the Th!nk City . . . and they are currently in bankruptcy. :-(


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## AMX/3 (Jun 8, 2008)

I hope there is hope for the Aptera. A recent article in the local paper brought to my attention that the company has taken a 37,000 building close to my home in Vista, they already had a Carlsbad location they are keeping as well. I could not resist driving by and I noticed of the 20 cars in the front parking lot, three were full size BMW's with Michigan plates. Perhaps with the economic problems for the big 3, Aptera may be drawing some brain power out west for this project. I am very interested in this company since I am planning on building the AMX/3-EV http://www.amx390.com and I would also like to do a story for my tv show Planet X. http://www.planetx.tv
Tom
http://www.aptera.com/


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I just don't see a large market for a weird looking, 3 wheeled, 2 passenger vehicle for 25K+. Especially when the Mitsu iMiEV is supposed to come out this year for less than $30K.


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## donmurray (Jan 21, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> I just don't see a large market for a weird looking, 3 wheeled, 2 passenger vehicle for 25K+. Especially when the Mitsu iMiEV is supposed to come out this year for less than $30K.


Some people really like the appearance, but you're right about the larger market. Appearance ranks high in the factors that influence the normal car buyer, and they are not going to make radical changes in what they think is good looking. But, they can change slowly. Once big fins were consider attractive. 

I'm usually attracted to designs that have the appearance of function (function is beauty), and the Aptera has that look of efficiency about it. Haven't seen anything with better weight and aero characteristics. These may give it a range and speed edge over the competetion, and range and speed are going to determining the success of many EVs.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Similarity to existing vehicles will sell EV's. Four wheels, at least four seats, highway speeds, and 100+ mile range for a decent price. Dropping battery prices and improving technology will make that happen without the need for Aptera like vehicles.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I personally like Aptera.

95% of trips I take alone in car, and wouldn't mind having such daily driver. Ofcourse there would be another family car in garage to fit the whole family.
There are many 2-seaters on US market, clearly in the same segment of one-man's fun driver

Due to low weight - less expensive batteries will be required, and this advantage will always stay with Aptera


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## JDMBill (Aug 17, 2009)

Stunt Driver said:


> I personally like Aptera.
> 
> 95% of trips I take alone in car, and wouldn't mind having such daily driver. Ofcourse there would be another family car in garage to fit the whole family.
> There are many 2-seaters on US market, clearly in the same segment of one-man's fun driver
> ...


I like it also, too bad only cali gets it and I agree with your post


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

I agree with other statements that the Aptera initially has a target market that is only a small % of the overall much larger current automotive market.

I see the Aptera targeting principally people who want to use less energy for transportation needs but are not able or willing to do more bicycling.

I also agree as the price of batteries comes down things will get cheaper... but batteries are not the only big ticket item that can and I expect to benefit from larger mass production of EVs... When there are millions of new EV motor controllers needed every year those prices will also fall ... so will BMS ... so will chargers ... etc ...etc... I expect all of those big ticket items to come down in price and get better over time ... not in a month or a year ... unfortunately it takes longer than that ... but all of those things get less and less expensive and get better over time.

These prices that make the Tesla $100+k and the Aptera $25+k are related ... when the parts drop enough for a Tesla like vehicle to go for $75k the Aptera will be down around $20k ... etc .... the efficiencies of the Aptera like design will always see a benefit to that type of vehicle. 

I see Aptera like vehicles with their low weight and great aerodynamic profile becoming more and more dominate as fewer and fewer people see good looks in the inefficient , heavy , less aerodynamic designs of the past... Already the big heavy gas guzzlers have begun to submit to the pressures of better aerodynamics and lower weight ... little by little the old ways give way to the new... Although I expect it to take a few generations before efficient designs like the Aptera to become part of the mainstream.

Now if only Aptera like vehicles also included pedals or some other means of getting exercise while in transit ... but that Twike like option will remain an even smaller niche market than the efficiency vehicles like the Aptera ... and unlike the efficiency vehicles I don't see a desire to be active and exercise becoming more popular... Although I would love that option ... I expect it to remain for the foreseeable future a tiny niche market.

Eventually if Aptera makes it... I greatly hope they do not get bought by one of the crappy car companies ... they don't get the Aptera concept and would only butcher it ... I would rather see those companies try to mimic them with their own models.

I am also very much in favor of more car companies each smaller than the current larger GMs and Fords ... if an extended recession were to hit again ... it would be more stable for the over all economy .. and it would help drive competition more as well ... but I see this happening as well ... but Technology that allows the smaller niche companies to compete is still in its infancy in the automotive sector ... but eventually it will be like electronics and groceries with there being hundreds of independent 'no-name' companies providing non-name brand automotive options ... but that too will probably take a few more generations.


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## goo_nadd (Apr 30, 2008)

Aptera



Vaporware
________
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## AMX/3 (Jun 8, 2008)

I just drove by the Aptera headquarters here in Vista about thirty minutes ago. The same BMW's with Michigan plates are still parked in the parking lot and there is movement inside. They are not dead yet. What do you know?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

How to get testdrive? I'd like to drive down to Cali for a weekend, and would love to stop by for a testdrive. I can even take work day off, is it can't be weekend. So, any contacts?


Aptera.com web site has gone missing. Is in my employer's firewall messing with my browsing, or something is wrong with Aptera?

I would be completely sad to see it die....


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

http://web.archive.org/web/20080316082500/www.aptera.com/contact.php
________
LupeFuentes cam


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

no luck on your link, but web site is up again.

They don't do good maintnance on web site - latest news are still from 2008. Well anyway I'll try to get a testdrive some time in Oct-Nov


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

Stunt Driver said:


> no luck on your link, but web site is up again.
> 
> They don't do good maintnance on web site - latest news are still from 2008. Well anyway I'll try to get a testdrive some time in Oct-Nov


The better place to go for Aptera updates is :

http://www.apteraforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

And Aptera does have a Monthly newsletter if you want to sign up for it.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Aptera - Fron wheel drive???

Movie posted on web site http://www.aptera.com/plugin.php
somewhere along minute 5 CEO sais it is a "front wheel drive". Or my english is playing tricks with me?
Otherwise - WTF?

ps Then later he says battery voltage is 300v, but brochure posted on web site says 370V. Is that guy new to aptera, or things aren't going good inside? October is here - last announcement said it will be selling now, but I can't find any news...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I think they figured out a while back that driving the single rear wheel in the middle was not a great idea from a traction standpoint.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

More possible loans for Aptera!
http://earth2tech.com/2009/10/16/door-opens-for-aptera-3-wheelers-to-grab-doe-green-car-funds/
Still under quetsion, but at least qualifies for loans now. I see this as a win

Found the change on drive location now. Probably makes sence - since all the weight is in the front. It's just sad that so dramatic changes happen so late - it is a delay for schedule. ALso they have widened the door to make it easier to get in - not a small change!! There is so little information available on aptera - some people think it's a scam. Still no news on launch, last announcement from this summer - first production vehicle before end of 2009. So we'll see after NY party if this came life.


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## machinehead (Oct 15, 2009)

Hello! 

I am new here and being an avid motorcyclist, I just wanted to point out that the Aptera, being a 3 wheeler is considered a motorcycle.

Being a motorcycle exempts the Aptera from automotive safety standards like airbags, thus reducing the cost.

I would buy on right this minute if it was for sale. I love motorcycles and even if it's a 3 wheeler, it would still be a Hoot to Drive.

Regards,
Machinehead


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Actually there is a push to make 3 wheelers pass similar standards as cars, so that exemption may not last.


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## machinehead (Oct 15, 2009)

That would be typical of the Bureaucrats. 

As a motorcycle, the insurance would be much cheaper and making it a true automobile would force the manufacturer to install more safety equipment like air bags and negate any cost savings.

In fact making it a true automobile would probably put Aptera out of business once and for all.

Yes, there is certain risk involved in any motorcycle not having seat belts or airbags, but I personally accept that risk as do millions of others.

I hope this doesn't happen, but what you say sounds likely.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm usually against this type of regulation but in some ways I can see the need. Getting on an open motorcycle, or open 3 wheeler, the risk to bodily harm is readily apparent. However, the average person getting into a full bodied 3 wheeler could easily have a false sense of security because of the safety features common in todays autos. Personally I don't think it makes a huge difference one way or the other since 3 wheeled vehicles have never been and will likely never be more than a small nice vehicle. Cheaper, better batteries that are improving all the time will negate the small range advantage a 3 wheeler might have, and the natural advantages that a 4 wheeled vehicle has always had, (that have allowed it to be come the dominant form of transport), will of course remain.


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## Buckster (Nov 4, 2009)

I think the Aptera is a great concept and love the looks, but most will shy away from the looks when it comes to ownership, the general public will only accept EV's that look and feel familiar, it is a simple fact of life that only a handful of people are not bothered about how they are perceived by others and Aptera drivers will be perceived as geeks.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Personally it has nothing to do what others think of what I drive, it's what I think. I'd rather have more room than a 3 wheeler allows if I'm spending that kind of money, and I'd rather have 4 wheels under me. I think most people feel similarly. There is a reason that in the entire history of wheeled vehicles 3 is the least popular.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

It may be worse in bigger cities, but here, outside of megapolis I'd rather have a separate mini-van to take me with family on not-so-often travel trips or picknicks. As for majority of time (at least 5 of 7 days) - I'll happily drive 2.5 seater to work and shops, carrying only 1 person in it anyway.

Price is the key, and better aerodynamics and lower weight allows for great savings - this will not go away.


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## Electric Car-Nut (Jul 5, 2009)

Aptera has announced a deal with "Best Buy" the "Electronics" "Big Box Store" to sell electric Aptera out of the Electronics Showroom, That will be Interesting if it comes true!


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

if they ever come out with car... but i'm keeping my reservation for the way it looks


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## dataman19 (Oct 7, 2009)

The Aptera is an excellent design for an EV.
It's economical, efficient (Reverse Tricycle Footprint providing excellent stability, and low road rolling resistance).
..
Too Bad it is only for sale to California State Residents (An Exclusive Market).
Too Bad the Executives have raped the money till clean (they have yet to deliver one to anyone who has bought one). They have pre-sold over 50,000 cars (at $5K Deposit) - yet cannot seem to actually deliver one.
..
I live in Phoenix, Arizona and I cannot buy one. One of my associates has a residence on the Beach in San Diego, she also has a permanent residence in Boston, MA. She succeeded two years ago in ordering two for her an Diego Residence, only to get a "Certified Letter" delivered to Her Boston Residence informing her that she was not eligible to purchase the vehicle. Even though she had a "valid: California Residence, she had a primary residence "outside of California" which made her ineligible for purchase. They went on to point point that the geographic restriction is due to the complexity of service and the cost to warranty the vehicle outside of the geographic restriction zone.
..
My associate is pissed (to put it politely) she sued - and lost in California. Needless to say, she did get her $10K deposit back, but she wants the cars. She admits that she did plan to actually haul one back to Boston (but never actually told anyone). but had a contingency plan to haul the vehicle back to California should it need service or warranty work. Talk about extreme green - hauling any car back and forth would make it too expensive for me....
..
So for now we must all just droole and envy the Californians who actually do get one. Or gloat at the fact that they paid a deposit, and that deposit helped the execs and management at Aptera Motors all buy new houses and BMW's (Talk about hypocritical - tout an EV, yet Buy BMWs???) Whatzup?
..
Dave Mason


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

As time passes by, the likelihood of enough people actually buying an Aptera gets less and less. The Aptera looks great, costs almost as much as a 4 passenger i-MiEV Mitsubishi, but has a much smaller tax credit making the price difference negligible. For a little more, the Leaf is available. Perhaps in the near future the Ford Focus EV will come to market and be priced competitively with the Leaf and i-MiEV. 

I expect thprice point is reason why we have not seen any more on the MM Duo three wheeler either. IMHO, their delays have hurt their chances of success and that is {as my daddy used to say} a crying shame.


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