# [EVDL] de-Icing



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Seth Rothenberg <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > The plates come off when the car is de-ICEd,
> > I'll put some time on it, then probably give it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Be careful before doing this. Check out your state. In Maryland, for example, plates must be turned in to the DMV before canceling the insurance. Not doing so results in a big fine. A friend was in an accident a few years back, car was totaled. Insurance company had car towed to wrecking yard with plates still on it, and of course canceled the insurance on it. When he recovered, he bought a replacement car, went to register it, and discovered old car had been disposed of without turning in the plates. He had to go through the insurance company to find out where his old car had been taken, get a statement from the wrecking yard that his old car was indeed parted out, AND pay a fine of several hundred dollars - all before he could get plates for his replacement car.



> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:45:34 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] de-Icing
> 
> Drop the insurance but keep the plates. That way you can just reinsure
> the car and start driving again.
> 
> Where are you located?
> 
> Dave Cover
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Definitely check with your DMV. In Louisiana, dropping insurance 
without turning in the plate also results in a hefty fine. BUT, they 
do allow you to submit a "Statement of Non-Use" that declares that 
you aren't going to use the vehicle on the road for a specified time 
period (you can turn in subsequent ones if things take longer than 
originally planned). If you have this statement of non-use on file, 
you are free to drop insurance and keep the plate. 

So ... check with your state and read up on all the loopholes that 
may be appropriate.

Good luck with your De-icing ... I'm about to start my own!
Tonya



> On 15 Jan 2008 at 19:40, Dave Davidson wrote:
> 
> > Be careful before doing this. Check out your state. In Maryland, for example, plates must be turned in to the DMV before canceling the insurance. Not doing so results in a big fine. A friend was in an accident a few years back, car was totaled. Insurance company had car towed to wrecking yard with plates still on it, and of course canceled the insurance on it. When he recovered, he bought a replacement car, went to register it, and discovered old car had been disposed of without turning in the plates. He had to go through the insurance company to find out where his old car had been taken, get a statement from the wrecking yard that his old car was indeed parted out, AND pay a fine of several hundred dollars - all before he could get plates for his replacement car.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Davidson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] de-Icing


> Be careful before doing this. Check out your state. In Maryland, for 
> example, plates must be turned in to the DMV before canceling the 
> insurance. Not doing so results in a big fine. A friend was in an 
> accident a few years back, car was totaled. Insurance company had car 
> towed to wrecking yard with plates still on it, and of course canceled the 
> insurance on it. When he recovered, he bought a replacement car, went to 
> register it, and discovered old car had been disposed of without turning 
> in the plates. He had to go through the insurance company to find out 
> where his old car had been taken, get a statement from the wrecking yard 
> that his old car was indeed parted out, AND pay a fine of several hundred 
> dollars - all before he could get plates for his replacement car.
>
>
> Same thing in Corrupticut! You HAVE to turn in the tags, BEFORE dropping 
> the insurance. They are getting fed up here with folks buying insurance to 
> GET tags than dropping it, so you, when you get T boned by an Illegal,at a 
> green lite, IF they have a tag and insurance,ya MIGHT collect? I had to 
> turn in my tags to DMV and show proof of insurance before I could have 
> them back. I, too, used to just let the insurance run out and reinsure 
> before driving again. They don't trust ya, anymore<g>!200 bux fine 
> thing!Look how LONG it took for CT to give you a tag renewal STICKER to 
> put on yur windshield, after YEARS of Tag theft and plate clippers who cut 
> your reg. sticker OFF your tag! Now were just like NY!

Seeya

Bob
>> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:45:34 -0500
>> From: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] de-Icing
>>
>> Drop the insurance but keep the plates. That way you can just reinsure
>> the car and start driving again.
>>
>> Where are you located?
>>
>> Dave Cover
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> -- 
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date: 
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey! Seth;

I DID check with a mechanic guy, about Hondas front wheel bearings. They 
ARE held together by the axle stub's bolts! If you TOW it with the axle 
stubs OUT you will tear up the wheel bearings. Simple fix would be to put a 
large, say 1/2" or more bolt two washers, one in one out, tighten it up 
good!This will hold the wheel bearings together. Tow it to Siberia, yur 
covered!Or Corrupticut.Ask yur mechanic, He'll know what I'm talking about!

Seeya

Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: [EVDL] de-Icing


> Well,
> I found some things on the car that
> need a bit of expertise - frozen axle nuts,
> for example. And I found a mechanic who
> is somewhat interested in working with me.
>
> So I got to test out my tow bar and hitch.
>
> Last week, I saw a pickup truck pulling a trailer,
> near Home Desperate, so I met the driver when he parked,
> and I asked him if he had suggestions for hooking up
> without help. He said, no, pactice, takes about 12 times...
> and we continued walking toward the door, and he
> said, there are these poles with tennis balls you
> can get, one for the hitch and one for the trailer.
> When the two touch, you are done. I had forgotten
> about them. Apparently so did the local stores.
>
> So I put a strip of painters tape down the middle
> of the window of the van, and I stood a rake up
> against the inside of the tow bar.
> It took just about 3 tries to hook up.
> Connected chains, etc.
>
> Towed it 4 blocks to the mechanic, just after dawn,
> gave him my phone number, and went to work.
> Gotta earn what I'll pay him...
> I think it will be worth it, I'll end up
> with a mechanic willing to work on my car.
>
>
> Towing like this is only useful for that narrow
> time when the car still has plates.
> Some jurisdictions require surge brakes.
>
> The plates come off when the car is de-ICEd,
> I'll put some time on it, then probably give it
> a ride up to Bob Rice's to be electrified.
> (It costs $2/day in insurance to keep the plates 
>
> It's all for the best, my wife's Honda van isn't good
> for towing much more than 4 blocks anyway.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> -- 
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date: 
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I am in CT and was able to just leave the fire and theft insurance on
the stored car. The insurance company (Amica) said they would not
report to the state that the insurance was dropped. I certainly would
not drop the registration before doing the conversion even if I had to
pay the $2 per day. From what others are reporting, re-registering
will be difficult.


> > Towing like this is only useful for that narrow
> > time when the car still has plates.
> > Some jurisdictions require surge brakes.
> >
> > The plates come off when the car is de-ICEd,
> > I'll put some time on it, then probably give it
> > a ride up to Bob Rice's to be electrified.
> > (It costs $2/day in insurance to keep the plates 
> >
> > It's all for the best, my wife's Honda van isn't good
> > for towing much more than 4 blocks anyway.
> >
> > Seth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> > 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tonya Said...

"Good luck with your De-icing ... I'm about to start my own!
Tonya"

Whatcha Buildin'?

David


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

May not be the smartest choice out there ... but I'm converting my VW 
Vanagon. I absolutely love the vehicle itself and the interior 
configuration. I saw 2 others than had been done, so it's not 
entirely unrealistic. It needs a new motor at the moment, and 
probably has a transmission issue or two. So ... decided to take the 
plunge. I have a few ideas, which I'm sure most newbies do. I do 
have the benefit of an EE degree, so I've been putting pencil to 
paper quite a bit, along with going through this lists' archives, but 
am about ready to mock up a rough model to see how practical some of 
those ideas are.

Tonya



> On 17 Jan 2008 at 3:40, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Tonya Said...
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Tonya;

A VW Van is a decent doner car, IF you don't have to push 70mph to go 
places you need to go! IF they are anything like the OLD V-Dub vans, they 
can carry a good load of batteries. Check on the driver's door post to see 
if ya can get a GVW figure there. This will tell you how much the vehicle is 
built to carry, Cargo and passengers. Ya want to leave several hundred lbs 
for future pass and cargo loads.But , lets say you only need to go 15-20 
miles a day, on secondery roads, AND you like the car. GO for it! Of course 
if the car is a rusted out piece of crap, converting it to electric isn't 
going to Fix it up, though.

Good Luck, ewere here to help

Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tonya Pope" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: "electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] de-Icing


> May not be the smartest choice out there ... but I'm converting my VW
> Vanagon. I absolutely love the vehicle itself and the interior
> configuration. I saw 2 others than had been done, so it's not
> entirely unrealistic. It needs a new motor at the moment, and
> probably has a transmission issue or two. So ... decided to take the
> plunge. I have a few ideas, which I'm sure most newbies do. I do
> have the benefit of an EE degree, so I've been putting pencil to
> paper quite a bit, along with going through this lists' archives, but
> am about ready to mock up a rough model to see how practical some of
> those ideas are.
>
> Tonya
>


> > On 17 Jan 2008 at 3:40, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> Tonya Said...
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Bob,

The body is in great shape ... she's always been a southern gal. As 
far as speed ... the stock engine had issues with 70! I'll be 
replacing a 4 cylinder with the EV. I've got all the weight numbers 
(GVW, etal), as well as the vanagon email list resources (they're an 
awesome community as well) giving me weights on things I'll be 
removing, plus adding in real world what I'd like to be able to 
carry, all going into my number crunching.

Thanks for the encouragement!
Tonya
p.s. "liking the car" is an understatement ... getting rid of my baby 
just isn't an option



> On 18 Jan 2008 at 0:50, Bob Rice wrote:
> 
> > Hi Tonya;
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] De-icing*

No, not ICE as in petrol engines, but ice as in that frozen stuff on the gr=
ound.
=

For the first time in my 2 years of ownership I had a problem with ice accu=
mulation on my windshield. I've got a ceramic heater tied to the 110 outlet=
so I have "pre-heating" but that only lasts so long and doesn't help me at=
all with the drive home. I ended up buying a compact 500 watt static inver=
ter and a compact hair dryer to heat the windshield enough so that ice won'=
t stick to it.
=

Roland, I don't know how you do it up there in the nation's icebox. 



Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur "fix".
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

This is what I did:
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/DSCF3865.JPG
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/DSCF3869.JPG

PTC Ceramic heater element installed in the existing air plenum using the o=
ld heater core as a frame.

Seems to work OK keeping the ice off the windshield here in Alaska 

Mike.

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Acuti <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, February 25, 2008 3:06 pm
Subject: [EVDL] De-icing
To: [email protected]

> =

> No, not ICE as in petrol engines, but ice as in that frozen stuff =

> on the ground.
> =

> For the first time in my 2 years of ownership I had a problem with =

> ice accumulation on my windshield. I've got a ceramic heater tied =

> to the 110 outlet so I have "pre-heating" but that only lasts so =

> long and doesn't help me at all with the drive home. I ended up =

> buying a compact 500 watt static inverter and a compact hair dryer =

> to heat the windshield enough so that ice won't stick to it.
> =

> Roland, I don't know how you do it up there in the nation's icebox. 
> =

> =

> =

> Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-
> get your "fix".
> http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

Hello Richard,

I use three heater units in my EV. Two are standard under dash units that =

you can get at some auto parts store by the same companies that sell engine =

heaters.

The inside of the vehicle is super insulated with layers of 1/2 to 2 inch =

thick foam which is install behind all the panels and all the way up to the =

glass.

The under dash heaters are a 640 watt on the drivers side and a 840 watt on =

the passenger side. All are thermostat and fan control. This winter, I onl=
y =

use the 640 watt on my side for less than 5 minutes or it will roast me out.

I use the existing hot water heater core and heat that water with a 1000 ho=
t =

water engine heater, circulating with a standard circulating pump that pump=
s =

about 4 gallons per minute at a 6 feet rise.

All these units are 120 vac 60 hz, so I have a Delco inverter-alternator, =

that is design to run a Dynamote inverter from a alternator. It is rated =

for 7000 kw at 110 VDC and then is inverted to 6000 kw at 120 vac 60 Hz. I=
t =

has two output lines circuit breaker for 25 amps which limits it to 5kw.

The inverter-alternator is also rated for 15 volts at 145 amps and still ca=
n =

put out about 50 amps on the DC side while the AC side is on.

The heater units are standard 120 vac controls, which can either run off th=
e =

on board inverter or when park and plug in with the AC 50 amp 4 wire power =

cord, I can transfer the circuit with transfers switches for each heater =

unit. The switches are a three position HD 30 amp 250 vac rated panel =

rocker type.

At first I though I had to run a 2500 watt 250 vac hot water heater, but =

this was too much for a insulated 3 gallon supply of water, it would boil =

the water right off.

I found that in the heater core compartment, there are damper doors that =

bring in outside cold air which is use to temper the hot engine water which =

could get up to and above 230 F. in ssome cars. So I reshape the door so =

when it will fully close.

I now found I can start to defrost the windshield when the water is at abou=
t =

50 F. The inside heater ducts were also rerouted, so the compartment air =

can circulated back through the defrosted ducts. I also soap up the =

defrosted circulation fans to run at a high rpm which was only allow in the =

A/C position.

Another thing that helps is to warm up the entire EV to about 70 F. in a =

super insulated garage. My walls are at 78 R-factor, ceiling at 136 =

R-factor and the garage door is at 19-R-factor.

Before I leave with the EV, the garage temperature is rise another 5 degree=
s =

and the three heaters are preheated with commercial power through the AC =

power plug for about 15 minutes.

The inside of the EV may be as high as 85 F and I can be park outside for =

about 2 hours and the vehicle is still frost free. Sometimes, the =

windshield may have a light mist on it, so all I do is turn on the defroste=
r =

fan for about 30 seconds and its clear.

For the last two winters here on the eastern front of the rocks, I had to =

only use the driver side 640 watt heater unit. We are having very warm =

winters, it only got down to 0 degrees for about a hour and the temperature =

went back up to 30 degrees.

Roland

----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Richard Acuti" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 4:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] De-icing



No, not ICE as in petrol engines, but ice as in that frozen stuff on the =

ground.

For the first time in my 2 years of ownership I had a problem with ice =

accumulation on my windshield. I've got a ceramic heater tied to the 110 =

outlet so I have "pre-heating" but that only lasts so long and doesn't help =

me at all with the drive home. I ended up buying a compact 500 watt static =

inverter and a compact hair dryer to heat the windshield enough so that ice =

won't stick to it.

Roland, I don't know how you do it up there in the nation's icebox. 



Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur =

"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

Joe,
I just used the little skill (reciprocating) saw with the narrow and fine
tooth cutting blade. I also trimmed the high temp plastic shroud that came
with the heater to fill the thickness difference between the element ant
the old core. The heater relay coil is enabled when both the fan switch and
the ignition switch are on. 

As John Wayland so eloquently pointed out the downside to using these
'cheapo' Walmart special $10 ceramic heaters is that they are rather
restrictive to air flow. To maintain the hurricane force blast furnace
effect you get with the ICE version I figured I'd leave a little space for
bypass flow. 

Less air through the element will allow it to run warmer but will mix with
the cooler air bypassing the element. I think it all averages out in the
end. If you let the element restrict the total airflow the element will run
hotter but won't move as much air. I happen to think it averages out the
same in the end. But like John mentions I like to feel the heat coming at
me, not dribbling out. And too, if you allow full flow I think it'll be way
too hot and fear the plastic parts down stream may suffer heat induced
trauma. A little cool air in the mix keeps it from being a flame thrower.

;-)

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Joe Fields
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] De-icing
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> That's a beautiful solution! I gotta try that.
> 
> What did you use to cut through all those heat
> exchanger guts? Sawzall?
> 
> <nitpick>
> I'm wondering if a bit too much air is able to go AROUND
> your ceramic element rather than THROUGH it. Could you
> block off that area at the top (where all the wiring is) in your
> first picture with a bit more sheet metal?
> </nitpick>
> 
> -Joe
> 
> 
> 


> > MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> > >
> > > This is what I did:
> > > http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/DSCF3865.JPG
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

Well you see, the problem is I don't have a heater core. Vintage Beetles we=
re aircooled engines and the heat exchangers were part of the engine which =
is gone. 
=

I do have one interesting idea...........let me run it by you:
=

The heater ducts are under the back seat in a classic Bug. The tubes still =
extend into the engine bay where the electric motor now resides. I could in=
stall a high power squirrel cage fan under the back seat, connected to the =
driver's side duct so that it blows OUT to the electric motor, over the bru=
shes (which are the hottest part). This will provide cooling for the motor.=
I can install a closed collar with 2 duct couplings on the motor on the br=
ushed end. The waste heat is blown off of the motor, into the duct on the p=
assenger side of the motor which is connected to the passenger side heater =
duct and the warmed air will blow into the car. I can use the stock heater =
control cables to select if the warm air just comes into the cabin via the =
floor or select the defroster so it blows on the windshield. My ascii art m=
ight not make it through hotmail's servers but you get the gist.
=

=

fan cabin
| ^|
| ^|
|>_motor_^|
=

What say you?



Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

Hello Richard,

It should work, if your motor can put out some heat. My Warp 9 or GE-11, =

the temperature only gets only 10 degrees above the ambient air in the =

winter, the air is still too cool.

You could in your ductwork design, leave a space or opening for inserting i=
n =

a small cab heater, just in case you have to add one later. The one I am =

using on the drive side is a 640 watt one which I got from a auto parts =

store that also sells engine heaters.

These are 120 vac and you could run the elements on the battery pack =

voltage, remove the fan unit from the heater because you vehicle blower wil=
l =

be use. Some of these heaters have a high limit and operating limit =

control, use 12 vdc on these control circuits to operated a DC contactor =

which will power this heater.

Or use this type of heater as is which is mounted way under the dash up hig=
h =

about 1 inch from the fire wall which will give you additional heat if =

needed.

I left this heater and controls at 120 VAC and use a 120 vac inverter off =

the DC-DC converter. This way before I leave with the EV, I can preheat th=
e =

inside of the cab about 15 minutes before I leave by using a transfer switc=
h =

which is made with a 3 position 30 amp 250 VAC rocker switch that either =

selects the on board inverter or the commercial power while the EV is plug =

in.

Roland





----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Richard Acuti" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] De-icing



Well you see, the problem is I don't have a heater core. Vintage Beetles =

were aircooled engines and the heat exchangers were part of the engine whic=
h =

is gone. 

I do have one interesting idea...........let me run it by you:

The heater ducts are under the back seat in a classic Bug. The tubes still =

extend into the engine bay where the electric motor now resides. I could =

install a high power squirrel cage fan under the back seat, connected to th=
e =

driver's side duct so that it blows OUT to the electric motor, over the =

brushes (which are the hottest part). This will provide cooling for the =

motor. I can install a closed collar with 2 duct couplings on the motor on =

the brushed end. The waste heat is blown off of the motor, into the duct on =

the passenger side of the motor which is connected to the passenger side =

heater duct and the warmed air will blow into the car. I can use the stock =

heater control cables to select if the warm air just comes into the cabin =

via the floor or select the defroster so it blows on the windshield. My =

ascii art might not make it through hotmail's servers but you get the gist.


fan cabin
| ^|
| ^|
|>_motor_^|

What say you?



Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur =

"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

It's unlikely your motor will provide enough heat to make a difference. It=
's really quite simple for you to make your own heater. Get a good blower =
like this one http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=3D16-1279, some ce=
ramic elements either the good ones from an EV parts house or scrounge them=
from some cheap space heaters at Walmart or Home Depot. Just make sure th=
ey are ceramic cores it usually says right on the box. How many elements y=
ou will need depends on your pack voltage. I'm low voltage at ~80 volts, a=
nd I found that 3 cores wired in parallel from 3 1500 watt space heaters dr=
aws about 25 amps in my truck providing me with 1800 - 2000 watts of heat w=
hich warms up my small cab quite nicely. The only other piece you need is =
a properly rated contactor to switch the DC to the heater element safely. =
An Allbright SW80 will most likely suit your needs and is probably a bit o=
f overkill. Then it's just a matter of mounting the elements in a box and =
running the ducting. Home Depot carries some nice PVC boxes for use in ele=
ctrical installations that should work quite nicely to house the elements, =
and www.mcmaster.com has a good selection of ducting. For a couple of hund=
red in parts and an afternoons work you can have what very few others ever =
have. A classic bug with heat that actually works  =


damon =



> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:48:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] De-icing
>
>
> Well you see, the problem is I don't have a heater core. Vintage Beetles =
were aircooled engines and the heat exchangers were part of the engine whic=
h is gone. 
>
> I do have one interesting idea...........let me run it by you:
>
> The heater ducts are under the back seat in a classic Bug. The tubes stil=
l extend into the engine bay where the electric motor now resides. I could =
install a high power squirrel cage fan under the back seat, connected to th=
e driver's side duct so that it blows OUT to the electric motor, over the b=
rushes (which are the hottest part). This will provide cooling for the moto=
r. I can install a closed collar with 2 duct couplings on the motor on the =
brushed end. The waste heat is blown off of the motor, into the duct on the=
passenger side of the motor which is connected to the passenger side heate=
r duct and the warmed air will blow into the car. I can use the stock heate=
r control cables to select if the warm air just comes into the cabin via th=
e floor or select the defroster so it blows on the windshield. My ascii art=
might not make it through hotmail's servers but you get the gist.
>
>
> fan cabin
> | ^|
> | ^|
> |>_motor_^|
>
> What say you?
>
>
>
> Rich A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get =
your "fix".
> http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo=
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

The Comuta-Car tried to heat the vehicle with motor waste heat. It was 
hopeless. All it did was fill up the car with the stink of ozone, 
overheated brush pigtails, and oil from the axle that got past the seal. 
Even when motors are worked as hard as the C-car worked its motor, they just 
aren't inefficient enough to produce much heat.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

I would think that defrost would be more important on the Driver's side. 
You could make a crossover pipe under the back seat to split the return 
air to both sides. I doubt that the heat from your motor will do much, 
depends on how much heat you need I guess. Putting a PTC element after 
your motor would give you enough heat if the motor does not. I made some 
heaters for my 914 that are basically a box with a round outlet clamped 
into the heater hose. Making one like those into an in-line would not be 
hard to do.
If it was me, I'd just put a PTC/fan on each tube, either under the seat 
or in the motor bay, and find another fan to cool the motor. That way 
you can control the heat amount seperate from the motor cooling, you 
won't need much air for the motor sitting at a traffic light for 
instance, but may need lots of heat to keep the windows clear. I know if 
I have a passenger the windows fog up a a lot more than when I'm alone, 
just from talking!

Good luck staying warm!

Mike Scott in SJ, CA Aircooled? Drive one a day, that's all I ask!

(Pics of the heaters are at:

http://www.roadglue.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3231#post3231

Let me know if you want the two-outlet plate as I am going to replace it 
with a single...)



> Richard Acuti wrote:
> > Well you see, the problem is I don't have a heater core. Vintage Beetles were aircooled engines and the heat exchangers were part of the engine which is gone.
> >
> > I do have one interesting idea...........let me run it by you:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*



> Richard Acuti wrote:
> 
> > Well you see, the problem is I don't have a heater core. Vintage
> > Beetles were aircooled engines and the heat exchangers were part of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

There was an option on the old beetles for an air duct the started behind
the horns then ducted it up and around to the window defrost tubes.

If you installed the heat behind the back seat it shouldn't be too much work
to tap into stock heater channels. 

Really want to convert a VW myself but the wife won't let me touch the 58
Karman Ghia.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Paul
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:13 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] De-icing



> Richard Acuti wrote:
> 
> > Well you see, the problem is I don't have a heater core. Vintage
> > Beetles were aircooled engines and the heat exchangers were part of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

Mike, 

The pictures of the heaters are no longer valid. Can you post them
somewhere again?

Thanks.

Nathan.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/De-icing-tp15680792p20722677.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] De-icing*

A day or so ago, Bob Rice reported on modding a space heater by
hooking the element to his pack and running the blower motor with a
small inverter.

Running heated air through a long uninsulated tube would be self defeating.


>



-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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