# Rx8 Hyper9 or no?



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

An 11 inch DC will give you a lot more grunt - and be cheaper
BUT a Hyper9 will be more sophisticated and will give re-gen braking

For track use there is no comparison
For a commuter?? 

Personally if I was going AC I would be looking at a motor from a production EV - like the Leaf


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

There is no situation I would use a Hyper9.

I would go with a used OEM motor, like from a Prius Gen 2 or Gen 3, or a Lexus GS450h, or a Leaf. You can pick up Prius ones for as low as like, $100. Another $100 for the inverter, and then a control board from OpenInverter.org or EVBMW.com.


----------



## Flash319 (Dec 29, 2019)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> There is no situation I would use a Hyper9.
> 
> I would go with a used OEM motor, like from a Prius Gen 2 or Gen 3, or a Lexus GS450h, or a Leaf. You can pick up Prius ones for as low as like, $100. Another $100 for the inverter, and then a control board from OpenInverter.org or EVBMW.com.


Why? Just cost alone?


----------



## Agent_86 (Jul 21, 2020)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> There is no situation I would use a Hyper9.
> 
> I would go with a used OEM motor, like from a Prius Gen 2 or Gen 3, or a Lexus GS450h, or a Leaf. You can pick up Prius ones for as low as like, $100. Another $100 for the inverter, and then a control board from OpenInverter.org or EVBMW.com.


Where can you find Prius motors for that cheap?


----------



## Isaac97 (Jun 3, 2019)

If you go to a Prius junkyard (which seem quite plentiful where I am - NorCal) they'll sell all sorts of parts for excellent prices. Ebay, they're more expensive (shipping) but $250 for transaxle, $200 for inverter.


----------



## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Flash319 said:


> Why? Just cost alone?


Cost, reliability, cost and ease of replacement, performance.

A Hyper9 is a very low quantity product, which means high price for the specs.

Compare that with Toyota's reputation for quality, and it being automotive grade (massive numbers, massive liability if anything breaks, world-class engineering).

Same reason you go with OEM batteries instead of buy CALB or whatever large-form-factor lithium cells. Used OEM are several order of magnitude more reliable than new large format cells, and almost an order of magnitude cheaper too.

There's just no benefit to not going with OEM. Hell I got a FREE forklift motor that is AC, and I'm half-regretting not just using Prius or Lexus parts.


----------



## Flash319 (Dec 29, 2019)

What makes you think the Hyper9 is low quality? Seems those motors are for heavy pump applications that probably see a lot of abuse. I bet there is a lot of competition for motors in harsh environments.

Am I missing something but the Prius looks like you are getting a slightly wimpy complete transaxle or am I looking at the wrong version? Also the Lexus setup looks equally as convoluted with multiple rotors and crap? Leaf looks like the only “motor” that can be separated and used as a motor. I don’t want some bastard looking thing hooked up to a rear drive six speed....


----------



## Isaac97 (Jun 3, 2019)

Matt stated it was low quantity, not low quality 

Lexus transmission is certainly powerful 



It can be controlled over CAN so the wiring is nice and simple, hooking it to the driveline is a little more complicated (usually they are thrown in place of the original transmission).

Prius motors -- very easily available, plenty reliable, Toyota added tons of protection systems so the inverters last forever. But the assembly and tuning of the Prius setup is quite painful, and you have to do things like welding the planetary gears to get proper power delivery.

Leaf motor is where it's at for transmission use. I haven't driven a Leaf/transmission car but a Geo Metro with the full Leaf transaxle spun the front tires up to 30mph. I don't want to know what would happen in first gear.

-Isaac


----------



## Flash319 (Dec 29, 2019)

Oops, guess I should learn to read first 🙄.

I was figuring the Prius would be a special kind of crazy install.
The things I like about the Hyper9 are that it’s “ off the shelf” somewhat, easy communication over CAN, standard layout, decent torque, simple install. Also the motor will outlive the car you put it in and can easily transplant into different vehicle. I don’t get why it gets shit on all the time. I thought I was missing something. Seems like a good setup for a 2500lb car. It’s not cheap but you save in all the other ways. 
I’m keeping an eye on Dave Blackhurst’s leaf motor rx8 to see how it turns out. Seems like a lot of crap to save a few grand though....but if it’s good might be worth it.


----------



## Isaac97 (Jun 3, 2019)

Well... The Hyper9 is certainly a good motor. It's got good support to back it up and decent specs.
So if you want the plug and play it's a good choice. Looking at the graphs, torque starts dropping at ~3800rpm when using a 156v supply (which seems to be the limit). So a good match for a 6-speed manual.

How is Dave Blackhurst controlling his motor? 
Thunderstruck Motors sells a plug-and-play Leaf controller for $500, not sure what torque numbers they get (apparently Leaf is rated for 187 ft-lbs [factory] versus the ~162 of the Hyper9).

-Isaac


----------



## Flash319 (Dec 29, 2019)

Isaac97 said:


> Well... The Hyper9 is certainly a good motor. It's got good support to back it up and decent specs.
> So if you want the plug and play it's a good choice. Looking at the graphs, torque starts dropping at ~3800rpm when using a 156v supply (which seems to be the limit). So a good match for a 6-speed manual.
> 
> How is Dave Blackhurst controlling his motor?
> ...


I think Dave is just using the Can bus but not sure. Check out his YouTube videos and you can see what’s what. We worked together to figure out the rx8 can bus to get all the dash lights out and still have abs and traction control (not really TC but the module is happy, abs works, power steering).
I like the torque profile for the manual trans as well. I never go over 3k really on the highway anyway.


----------



## Isaac97 (Jun 3, 2019)

Wow! Looks like he's going to have full control with minimal modifications to the high-voltage stuffs.

Keep us posted on the pair of RX8 EVs


----------



## Jack-Lee (Mar 29, 2019)

I use a hyper9 in a Opel Corsa A. Great engine with lot of Power and with the eveurope kit its Super easy to install. DC are no option, because of EMV and TÜV here in Germany.


----------



## Fightingtorque (Nov 30, 2020)

Old post.....
I was all for the Leaft motor, but I am thinking the Hyper 9 has an advantage in running at a lower voltage? I want about 20-24kWh, to do that with 5 Tesla modules will give about 125V which is ideal for Hyper 9 but too low for leaf? To get up to the 350V required to for the Leaf motor, you'd probably use a whole Leaf pack, but I think these batteries have ageing issues. Also, there is quite a difference in safety aspects between 125V and 350V (mainly thinking risk of electrocution during the build) .


----------



## Isaac97 (Jun 3, 2019)

Yep, hyper 9 is great for that application. Leaf packs suck 

Electrocution isn't _that_ bad. But stick with what you're comfortable with.


----------



## Flash319 (Dec 29, 2019)

I was starting to convince myself that the leaf was the route to go for cost. Hyper9 are just crazy money (6k here is Canada.). I too was going to go the same path Fighting with the Tesla packs and I think it is a good solution. My problem is the usual problem, Tesla x/s packs are crazy money and hard to find. I am sort of waiting now for another battery option but the way Tesla is going with batteries I don’t think there ever will be a good battery for us DIY guys. I am scared to design a system around a unicorn battery, especially low voltage like the Tesla packs. I wish someone would sell off the shelf battery packs. Tesla, Panasonic, Samsung....you listening.....


----------



## Isaac97 (Jun 3, 2019)

GM will theoretically sell you a Bolt pack - 60KWh and good peak output.
The Chevrolet Performance eCrate Is Here to Make Electric Drivetrain Swaps Easier Than Ever

But who knows how serious they are...

It's hard for an OEM to deal with consumers.


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Isaac97 said:


> GM will theoretically sell you a Bolt pack - 60KWh and good peak output.
> The Chevrolet Performance eCrate Is Here to Make Electric Drivetrain Swaps Easier Than Ever
> 
> But who knows how serious they are...
> ...


OEMs deal with consumers all the time, but only through dealers. Bolt packs are readily available to consumers as replacement parts from GM dealers. The part number is (or was) 24285978 and in 2017 the list price was US$15,734.29 but some dealers offer discounted prices for online purchases (I found about US$12K for this pack a couple of years ago). Some people have suggested that a consumer would not be permitted to actually buy one without proving ownership of a Bolt (presumably by providing a VIN), but I have never heard of anyone testing that theory; I am curious whether someone without a Bolt could complete the purchase, but I'm not spending thousands of dollars on a pack I don't need to find out. 

Yabert actually built his VW van conversion using a complete Bolt pack... but salvaged, not purchased new.


----------



## Fightingtorque (Nov 30, 2020)

I think the salvage EV parts situation will improve regarding motors and inverters, because these parts don't seem to have reliability issues and eventually the vehicles will be going end of life faster than the DIY EV community and repairers will want them (>100k miles, worn out interior, scruffy damaged exterior, every suspension and braking part wearing out and battery down to <70 SOH etc). 
BUT I think batteries will always be in demand because powerwall people will want them.


----------

