# Converting an automatic Hilux Surf.....



## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Jack Rickard (www.evtv.me) is doing an Escalade. An American style luxery Hi-Lux kind of car. So, yes, it's possible. I believe every car is possible. Not all cars are just as practicle. I like your idea. I'm busy with a '77 Land Cruiser. Like that one more.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Your biggest problem is weight, which translates to a need for large motor and battery, which translates into even more weight and significant cost. So, first thing is to check your budget. Then define your range requirements, hopefully those are realistic. Then figure out size of the battery you will need, then check the budget again 

If you are still interested after that, then you start looking into motors, mechanical stuff, etc etc


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks guy's for your replies.

On the subject of weight I believe that when you remove the engine, Rads (incl aircon), two fuel tanks (in my case a twin tank for bio) and fuel plus a very weighty silencer (muffler system to you guy's) you are left with a lot of weight that can be used for batteries etc.

I am thinking of using a 3phase motor and designing my own three phase inverter being an electronics engineer by trade. I am looking to use about twenty lead acid batts, can not afford Lithium as yet.

I have seen some postings elsewhere of big Toyota's being converted but they were all stick shift, not seen any automatics converted.

I am not looking for long range since most of my driving is local and the speed rarely gets above 60mph, I just like driving the jeep especially in winter.

My jeep is a 1995 imported Toyota Hilux Surf 3ltr TD Auto, cost me £1500 three years ago and is probably worth more as spare parts than if I sold it.

I like a challenge, step one is to design the electronics then see how it goes.

But I would like to see any other big auto's that have been converted, I am going to look at that link you sent me Jan, thanks.

John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had a similar response from the MR2 forum when I was planning on converting one of them.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
There is a thread in technical about using automatic gearboxes and also have a look at [ur=http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/1930-model-roadster-build-59659.html]mizlplix's thread[/url]. He is using a small electric pump to keep his auto pressured when not driving and has a really nice oil cooler and ac motor too.

I believe there is at least one Series Land Rover converted to electric somewhere in the web, possibly on youtube so hefty 4x4s are possible.

Depending on what you need it to do you might even be able to look at the possiblities of mating a motor straight to the transfer box and having a direct drive with high and low ratios.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> But I would like to see any other big auto's that have been converted, I am going to look at that link you sent me Jan, thanks.
> 
> John


Auto in of itself is not a big deal, I have auto and my build is documented well enough on this forum. Think of it as replacing one spinning shaft ( ICE ) with another ( EM ) while keeping all related sensors intact , so transmission can't tell the difference. I think you might have bigger challenge with inverter/motor , not too many suitable and cheap AC motors out there. EVTV won't be much help to you, different budgets involved. There are 2 excellent threads here on autos and only one person I ever seen who successfully built DIY AC inverter. His build is also well documented. Search for Passat or Etischer.


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Thanks guy's for your replies.
> 
> On the subject of weight I believe that when you remove the engine, Rads (incl aircon), two fuel tanks (in my case a twin tank for bio) and fuel plus a very weighty silencer (muffler system to you guy's) you are left with a lot of weight that can be used for batteries etc.
> 
> ...


Hi John

I looked into the Hilux Surf as well a couple of years back, it has the kind of electronically-controlled autobox as the Supra, just in a different casing? In the end, I found a Supra locally to use for my project, so went down that route...

The autobox seems to work just fine with electric, the main issue is no idling (not with the Zilla & Hall-effect pedal setup, though it could be done easily with a standard pot-box setup)

If you're going AC, then implementing idling (to keep the autobox pressurised and run your power-steering, etc) will be easy, and you'll get regen braking too.

One way you could shorten your development time is to look up a thread here where someone hacked a big VFD to make it run one of the surplus Ford/Siemens AC motors - it worked quite well after a bit of tinkering

Anyway, don't give up just because the UK guys poo-poo'd your idea, I've found a few of the UK EV crowd are a bit negative & stuck in their ways...
...one of the reasons why I've stubbornly carried on with the Supra
(which is one of the heaviest sports cars around!) is so I can eventually say "EV's don't have to be slow & boring... see, I told you so!"


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks for the info guy's
I had a look at that guy designing his AC controller but it looks to be rather over complicated and as a computer engineer I would not like to rely on a computer to generate my power.
There are chips around designed purely to do this job, so its just a case of interfacing them. I do not expect the controller to be my biggest problem.

On the subject of auto boxes, when you say idling, are you saying that the ICE ticking over is generating a hydrolic pressure to keep the gearbox engaged???? I hadn't thought of that. I guess that is what another guy is using a SureFlo pump for. I could only use the motor ticking over if I used the torque converter and I thought that the TC is where most power of an auto is wasted.

I liked your Supra conversion but wont two 1500watt heater cores use a lot of your battery power?
John


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

dimitri said:


> Your biggest problem is weight, which translates to a need for large motor and battery, which translates into even more weight and significant cost. So, first thing is to check your budget. Then define your range requirements, hopefully those are realistic. Then figure out size of the battery you will need, then check the budget again
> 
> If you are still interested after that, then you start looking into motors, mechanical stuff, etc etc


Thanks for your reply, If I set budgets I would frighten myself and the wife would see it and put a block on it.
I prefer to set off blind then after I am in deep there will be no going back.

On the question of weight, the truck is built for carrying weight and once it is set in motion it takes a lot to slow it down so it might not need as much power as you might think. Plus all the saved weight from the discarded bits.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Depending on what you need it to do you might even be able to look at the possiblities of mating a motor straight to the transfer box and having a direct drive with high and low ratios.


Thats an interesting idea, do you mean using the low ratio as a first gear and then moving to high ratio???
That would save a big chunk of weight and all the gearbox friction.


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> On the subject of auto boxes, when you say idling, are you saying that the ICE ticking over is generating a hydrolic pressure to keep the gearbox engaged???? I hadn't thought of that. I guess that is what another guy is using a SureFlo pump for. I could only use the motor ticking over if I used the torque converter and I thought that the TC is where most power of an auto is wasted.
> 
> I liked your Supra conversion but wont two 1500watt heater cores use a lot of your battery power?
> John


Yep, normal auto's can waste a fair bit of power in the TC (it ends up as heat in the tranny fluid), but the Supra's box has a lockable TC
The Hilux surf may well have the same thing (the "OD off" switch on the shifter?)

3000W of heater is a bit on the overkill side, but they don't both have to be on at the same time!
When I was testing the heater last winter, it really did need the 2 elements if the air was coming from outside (fresh air rather than "recirc"). This was when the outside air was around freezing...

Really this car needs a big lithium battery pack, but I don't have the cash for that. Plus I'm still battling the weirdness that disabled the car on it's maiden voyage the other week. Controller still seems flaky, not sure why. I really hope it isn't damaged...


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

electricmini said:


> Yep, normal auto's can waste a fair bit of power in the TC (it ends up as heat in the tranny fluid), but the Supra's box has a lockable TC
> The Hilux surf may well have the same thing (the "OD off" switch on the shifter?)


Yep I have an OD off switch, I have a situation at present whereby the OD off light starts to flash at a regular rate doesn't seem to affect the operation of anything though.

So are you saying that with the OD off the TC is effectively a solid coupling???
John

Just found two problems with this idea
1: I can not change from high to low ratio whilst moving
2: I am not sure if a 3phase motor can be made to run in reverse.....


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