# Aviation, Drones, and Flying Cars next 50 years.



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*This is a new form to discuss where is the world is going in the Next 50 years pertaining to the skies and Air Traffic.*

 In todays fast paced world of chaos, confusion, traffic jams, and heavy traffic both on the highway, lets consider this all merging in the air and on the ground. Who is going to monitor all of this control this or police this. This thread is being opened for a friendly approach to this new situation. Almost every country is in the process of developing their own version of the Jetson private electric car. to have theirs ready to go Sweden is almost ready to go. Starting at 92 K is pretty hefty but they have plenty of back orders at this time from California to Europe the first 12 are already ordered.
Drones have already created problems for Air Traffic, The FAA is constantly changing the rule and regulation in that area. Drones are not toys although it is easy to confuse this situation. Every Christmas thousands of drones are sold for the personal enjoyment of the consumer. How many of those do not realize to legally operate one in the United States you need to be licesed tested and regulated with the rest of the avaition traffic to safeguard the lives of everyone concerned.
Now how are we going to merge Airplanes, drones, and flying cars coming and going, landing and taking off with hundreds and thousands of all of these operating anywhere in the world. This is the basis for this form now Who is going to be the first to jump in start talking. Lets have some open friendly conversation here no right or wrong answers here.
From the Colorado High Country
thank you, Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Not going to happen for anybody but those already using helicopters to commute to work. This is a 1%er's problem -- people who already have excessively large carbon footprints.

This planet is doomed if we encourage shitty forms of transportation for the masses, like drone-based aviation, where huge amounts of scarce energy are used to merely establish an altitude (fixed wing at least recruits potential energy and can glide). Responsible and ethical engineering practice means saying no to the morons who push this crap.

I also don't see any flying cars in your pictures. Most people can't drive in 2D, let alone 3D.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Not going to happen for anybody but those already using helicopters to commute to work. This is a 1%er's problem -- people who already have excessively large carbon footprints.
> 
> This planet is doomed if we encourage shitty forms of transportation for the masses, like drone-based aviation, where huge amounts of scarce energy are used to merely establish an altitude (fixed wing at least recruits potential energy and can glide). Responsible and ethical engineering practice means saying no to the morons who push this crap.
> 
> I also don't see any flying cars in your pictures. Most people can't drive in 2D, let alone 3D.


The third picture is a Jetson electric flying car from Sweden single seat 92k. Thank you for your input you are the first one to respond, have a great day and evening. Let's see where we go from here.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

There is no state or country on this planet where that vehicle would be legal on a public road. 

Therefore....not a flying CAR.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Can you imagine *100,000* of these flying over head in a given day of you live in the metro. Watch enjoy the video, I am awaiting your reply and your opinion.
Hank


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## OR-Carl (Oct 6, 2018)

There, now I agree with everything you wrote...



remy_martian said:


> This planet is doomed if we encourage shitty forms of transportation for the masses,


I agree that this sort of thing is an escapist fantasy and will really only be available to the wealthy. If only people got as excited about riding an e-bike as they did about flying a Star Wars speeder-bike then we might have a chance at a future that does not involve everyone slowly broiling. I guess the ultra wealthy might try to jet off to Mars, or build themselves a swanky bunker, but ultimately that is a fantasy too.

Until we can figure out how to run a civilization that is not wildly unsustainable, this sort of thing feels like a distraction.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

OR-Carl said:


> There, now I agree with everything you wrote...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input tonight looks like we have some good feedback going with thread. H Ave a good night Work Safe BE SAFE.
From the Colorado High Country
Thank you,
Hank


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

It is on my long list of things to build something similar to that Jetson. For fun, and for fabrication practice. There is no way these things will be anything but recreational vehicles, kind of like dune buggies and quads today. Even if we get a breakthrough in battery tech doubling or better tripling the specific energy, there is still the issue of noise - small props are extremely noisy. Now like was stated earlier, electrification for the fixed wing aviation is quite viable, especially for recreational and short-distance commercial. I believe there is a company in Vancouver BC that is currently trying that.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

cricketo said:


> a


Thanks for your input on this but my vote is not in as far as the useful and practicality that these type of vehicles might achieve towards I know there is aa New York company planning on re-doing the New York Cab system with flying Taxis. I personally live in the high country in Colorado on a hill and plow about two blocks of snow every time we get 2 or more inches on my quad, in the summertime t is used as a workhorse on my .5 acre property for forest projects, gardening projects, and basic home maintenance. So I guess I am not the right guy to discuss the value of a quad with. Yes you are correct in the electric airplane department underway, I believe Cessna has successfully made a working Cessna Caravan electric plane as well as other companies. Here is something I have personally been monitoring for the past five years: *Terrafugia Transition* if you have time and would like to see something really cool, Google this and report back to me sometime about this.. I will highlight this craft on this Forum but I really would like your opinion on this one.
Thank you again have a great night.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Replace NY cabs? 😂


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> . More to come about this in a later issue, please enjoy HANK
> 
> 
> *Here's when New Yorkers might be riding around in electric flying taxis*
> ...


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

hankweirauch said:


> Thanks for your input on this but my vote is not in as far as the useful and practicality that these type of vehicles might achieve towards I know there is aa New York company planning on re-doing the New York Cab system with flying Taxis. I personally live in the high country in Colorado on a hill and plow about two blocks of snow every time we get 2 or more inches on my quad, in the summertime t is used as a workhorse on my .5 acre property for forest projects, gardening projects, and basic home maintenance. So I guess I am not the right guy to discuss the value of a quad with. Yes you are correct in the electric airplane department underway, I believe Cessna has successfully made a working Cessna Caravan electric plane as well as other companies. Here is something I have personally been monitoring for the past five years: *Terrafugia Transition* if you have time and would like to see something really cool, Google this and report back to me sometime about this.. I will highlight this craft on this Forum but I really would like your opinion on this one.
> Thank you again have a great night.
> Hank


Are you in the market to build something ? Or perhaps to buy something ? You come across like a person who just had an enlightenment and is eager to spread the gospel. Most of us here have seen this show at least a dozen times already though.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

There will be no flying cars. Electric helicopters sure, but not flying cars.

The spinning propellers or whatever needed to lift it off the ground makes it just as noisy and windy as a traditional helicopter, so you won't just land them at work parking lot.

The big disruption I see coming is a large growth in the popularity of home made flying contraptions using drone technology.

I come from the drone/UAV world and the FAA is still playing catch-up. Drones took them by surprise and they had no clue what to do. The same thing will happen with homemade flying contraptions. Some one will build one and fly it to work and cause a huge legal drama.

Autonomous cars, flying cars, and drone delivery are the three things that have pulled in billions and billions of dollars of investment and all they have to show for it is a couple Tesla's driving around jerky as hell and come CGI renderings of drones delivering on rooftops. It's vaporware.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Ok Mr. Electric Land Cruiser,
Here is an example I think, what you were talking about, more or less Homemade and allegedly Autonomous. Hank
*SKYCAR® 400*
Four passenger VTOL aircraft
*Skycar® 400*
The Skycar® 400 is the 5th generation of VTOL aircraft developed by Dr. Paul Moller and is now in the “operational prototype” stage. The Skycar® combines the high-speed capabilities of a fixed wing aircraft with the vertical take-off and landing capabilities of a helicopter. Its ducted fans provide lift and propulsion without the dangers of exposed rotor blades and high maintenance costs of rotary-winged aircraft. The vehicle employs state-of-the-art fly-by-wire computer technology to monitor, control, and maintain stability of the aircraft, while simultaneously making it simple and easy to operate.
In the future, passengers will not be required to fly the aircraft, as the Skycar® will be an autonomous aircraft utilizing advanced onboard environment scanning and precise positioning systems, the highway-in-the-sky (HITS) and automated air traffic control in order to fly between destinations and avoid other air-traffic.
*Skycar® 400 Targeted Performance*


*VTOL Configuration* Four thrust-vectoring nacelles with two counter-rotating Rotapower® engines per nacelle. Hybrid design configurations are currently under development*Passengers* 2+2*Emergency Airframe Parachutes* Yes*Fuel Type* Ethanol*Noise Level at 500ft (Goal)* 65 dBA*Dimensions (L x W x H)* 21.5’ x 8.5’ x 7.5’*Operational ceiling* 36,000 ft*Takeoff and landing area* 35 ft dia*Max speed @sea-level* 331 mph*Cruise Max speed @20,000 ft* 308 mph*Rate of climb @sea-level* 4,800 fpm*Endurance* 5.9 hours*Disc loading* 140 lb/ft2*Range @ 131 mph (21.3 mpg)* 805 miles*Net payload* 720 lbs*Gross weight* 2,400 lbs*Continuous Engine Power (Total)* 720 hp*Maximum Lift/Drag* 12.5


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*How old is the concept of an actual working flying car??? * Personally i cannot answer that, but here is an example I am sure many of you are not aware of, *Molten Taylor Aerocar *made this and sold a few couples in the 1950's. Enjoy the video and please reply.







Hank


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

hankweirauch said:


> *How old is the concept of an actual working flying car??? *


Exactly! There hasn't been a breakthrough in 70 years even with pretty advanced combustion engines of the 2000's, but somehow electrics (quarter energy density if not less) will make it work ? What's the logic here ?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Moller's "Skycar" has always been a joke, and Moller has always claimed performance which could not be demonstrated. The big difference between the original of this series of "concepts" and current technology of VTOL craft is the shift from eight (yes, *8*) Wankel-type engines to electric motors and a problematically heavy battery.

The idea of putting the word "car" in the name of these vehicles originally suggested that the vehicle can drive on a road or fly, which is always a terrible compromise. More recently, it tends to suggest instead that the vehicle can operate as a transportation appliance operated with a minimally skilled operator, which is a product of automated flight controls and denial of reality by those proposing these operations. In fact, there's nothing about a multicopter that is inherently more "car like" than an automated helicopter.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

hankweirauch said:


> Ok Mr. Electric Land Cruiser,
> Here is an example I think, what you were talking about, more or less Homemade and allegedly Autonomous. Hank
> *SKYCAR® 400*
> Four passenger VTOL aircraft
> ...


65 dBa _at 500 feet (goal)_

Yeah 👍 take that to work at 6AM see how it works out 😂


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

cricketo said:


> Exactly! There hasn't been a breakthrough in 70 years even with pretty advanced combustion engines of the 2000's, but somehow electrics (quarter energy density if not less) will make it work ? What's the logic here ?


Ease of control and mechanical simplicity. A separate motor for each rotor of a multi-rotor aircraft (such as a quad-rotor or "quadcopter", the most common design for toys of this type) is easy to control, and with electric motors doesn't require complex mechanical systems to drive all those rotors from one engine while delivering different thrust from each one. That makes it easy for any nutjob to propose a "flying car" that would have been even less plausible with an engine.

As a kid in school I remember making a papier-mâché model inspired by the Bell X-22 of the 1960's (which was recent history then!). The X-22 had ten gearboxes to interconnect four engines and four fans, with variable pitch on each fan for control. A Skycar is essentially a small version of the same thing but with separate engines for each fan (instead of interconnected), and anything recent with a couple of fans on each side is the same idea again, but now with electric motors so a school kid can actually build one.

A recently publicized project (Flowcopter) is building a quad-rotor autonomous aircraft with an engine driving the rotors through a hydrostatic system (pump on engine, a hydraulic motor per rotor, and control valves) to achieve the same control and lack of mechanical complication as electric multi-rotors, without the power electronics (or battery). This company acknowledges the endurance issue with battery-electric aircraft, especially in aircraft using rotors for lift, which are less efficient than fixed-wing aircraft.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> Ease of control and mechanical simplicity. A separate motor for each rotor of a multi-rotor aircraft (such as a quad-rotor or "quadcopter", the most common design for toys of this type) is easy to control, and with electric motors doesn't require complex mechanical systems to drive all those rotors from one engine while delivering different thrust from each one. That makes it easy for any nutjob to propose a "flying car" that would have been even less plausible with an engine.
> 
> As a kid in school I remember making a papier-mâché model inspired by the Bell X-22 of the 1960's (which was recent history then!). The X-22 had ten gearboxes to interconnect four engines and four fans, with variable pitch on each fan for control. A Skycar is essentially a small version of the same thing but with separate engines for each fan (instead of interconnected), and anything recent with a couple of fans on each side is the same idea again, but now with electric motors so a school kid can actually build one.
> 
> A recently publicized project (Flowcopter) is building a quad-rotor autonomous aircraft with an engine driving the rotors through a hydrostatic system (pump on engine, a hydraulic motor per rotor, and control valves) to achieve the same control and lack of mechanical complication as electric multi-rotors, without the power electronics (or battery). This company acknowledges the endurance issue with battery-electric aircraft, especially in aircraft using rotors for lift, which are less efficient than fixed-wing aircraft.


I'm just not so sure Flowcopter do t think that IA going to work. Thank you for your input, have a great night.
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*Here's how the governing bodies want to rule us when we mix drones and electric cars with general Aviation.*

*How the FAA will integrate rockets, drones, and flying cars into our sky*
by Charlie Leocha | Feb 10, 2022 | drones, space

*Established airspace has accommodated space travel for decades. Drones and flying cars, not so long.*
J_oby and SK Telecom announce they will work together to introduce emissions-free aerial ridesharing services in South Korea._
FAA, NASA, and the military have been working for decades on the development of rockets. Big military drones have been used for more than a decade to provide distant firepower for military action. Smaller unmanned aerial systems became prevalent around 2015. Flying cars have been around for decades, but only in cartoons.* Today,** they really exist.*
Travelers United has worked with these new technologies since 2015. Our organization has kept pace with changes in the US space program that now is a major industry. Only 10 years ago, no one would have thought that rockets would take off and land to be reused. Drones were considered flying toys until FedEx, UPS, Amazon, and Google started delivery, surveying, and inspection operations. And the only flying taxis were imaginary. *Today,
they all exist.*

*Rule, Rules, we all have to operate under all of this, Why can't we all just get along.  Please respond, be safe and have a good day.

thank you Hank






















*


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Futurist nonsense that does not belong in the technical discussion section of this site. There's a bullshitting section - post this kind of stuff there.

Economics, need, and pragmatism determine whether a tech makes it in the market...not Sergey Brin upscaling a toy he got for Christmas.

Musk spends a lot of time putting lipstick on his pig. Rockets to Mars. Rockets from LA to Tokyo. Fueling these fantasies to his cult followers lets him get away with burning 1.8M pounds of fossil fuels, three times a day, to out up his internet in the sky monopoly. He recently called for deeper raiding of the strategic fuel reserve...fossil fuels. Mr Green Planet Tesla.

What does this all have to do with a technical discussion of electric cars or their components? Nothing.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*More on the Regulatory or Governing body of controlling the skies chaos and confusion:*

*The development of flight can move quickly. Integration of technology takes time, planning, and unified regulation.*
The development of flight and space technology has been taking place for dozens of years. Now it is racing forward at a pace faster than even futurists could have imagined. Six men who have been working intimately on space operations, drone deployment, and flying car development discussed a fuller use of our national airspace. They are exploring space, integrating drones, and figuring how to get vTOL (electric vertical take-off and landing) taxis into operation. Within ten years these new entrants into our national air space (NAS) will fly back and forth to space and provide under-400-foot altitude inspections and delivery systems.
A panel that spoke at the Air Traffic Control Association (ATCA) annual meeting discussed the sky’s future. It included FAA executives Jay Merkle, Executive Director, Office of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Integration, and Wayne Monteith, Associate Administrator for Commercial Space Transportation. Col. Horne from the US Space Force participated. Greg Bowles from Joby Aviation and Michael Moses, president of Virgin Galactic, discussed the coming integration of our skies as well. Finally, Dr. Parimal Kopardekar of NASA (better known as PK) served as the moderator.
*Our skies will host far more than only airplanes. Rockets, drones, and flying cars will also share the wild blue yonder.



















*


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"technical discussion" is where you put this mess.

like:

"What size and type of motor is used in these cuz I wanna build one?"

This is mere bullshitting which belongs in the "lounge" part of the site, not under someone's nose looking for technical information to build one.

Get it?

Ditch the clutter, dude.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> "technical discussion" is where you put this mess.


Actually, he put it in "EV News", but Bruce has made a several-decades-long obsession with categorizing, sorting, and archiving the world's history of EVs, putting out daily EV news bulletins. So he's always quick to report anything in EV News that's not strictly news (no discussion), and ask it to be moved elsewhere.

We don't have a just, casual EV discussion forum, so, my closest guess was to dump it here.



> This is mere bullshitting which belongs in the "lounge" part of the site


Well, the Lounge part of the site is for non-EV discussion. People to talk about gas prices, the weather, non-EV car related stuff, etc. Doesn't belong there either, since it's specifically about EVs.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> Actually, he put it in "EV News", but Bruce has made a several-decades-long obsession with categorizing, sorting, and archiving the world's history of EVs, putting out daily EV news bulletins. So he's always quick to report anything in EV News that's not strictly news (no discussion), and ask it to be moved elsewhere.
> 
> We don't have a just, casual EV discussion forum, so, my closest guess was to dump it here.
> 
> ...


Ok I am good where ever it goes, I will let it ride then in regards to my favorite fan. Thank you again, Hank


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> Musk spends a lot of time putting lipstick on his pig. Rockets to Mars. Rockets from LA to Tokyo. Fueling these fantasies to his cult followers lets him get away with burning 1.8M pounds of fossil fuels, three times a day, to out up his internet in the sky monopoly. He recently called for deeper raiding of the strategic fuel reserve...fossil fuels. Mr Green Planet Tesla.


Well, you know I am a Musk fan  So let's clarify this thing... The ultimate goal (as currently defined) is to fly the missions on the Starship, which is methane-powered, and which can be synthetically produced relatively easily. Elon has created the direct carbon capture challenge ($100M prize) in part to facilitate the creation of [better] tech for synthetic fuel production. 

Now should the rocket scientists wait with the rocket development until better fuel sourcing is available ? It takes years to develop and perfect those machines. Also should rocket companies not engage in any rocket flying until better fuels are available ? Should the world not get better connectivity because the fuels aren't available ? There is a feedback loop in all of that.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*Here's a video of the first Certified Flying Car to get Certified us: Terrafugia Transition







*









Meet the World's 1st Flying Car to Get FAA Clearance for Takeoff


Though they've appeared in sci-fi for decades, they exist in real life too. And now, the FAA has cleared the first flying car for takeoff in the United States, joining airplanes in the friendly skies. Here's a look at the Transition from Terrafugia.




www.motorbiscuit.com





*Meet the World’s 1st Flying Car to Get FAA Clearance for Takeoff*
These roadable aircraft ideally have airplane and helicopter capabilities, along with software to make them easy for regular people to use. In addition, flying cars must meet road and safety standards to be street-legal.
*The Terrafugia Transition: the 1st flying car cleared for takeoff by the FAA*


Earlier this year, the FAA approved the first flying car, Robb Report reported. The car in question is the Transition “roadable aircraft.” Its maker, Terrafugia, is located in Massachusetts and owned by the Chinese corporation Geely, which also owns Volvo and Lotus. The FAA awarded the two-seater a Special Light-Sport Aircraft airworthiness certificate.
Terrafugia described receiving the certificate as a “significant milestone,” according to the Robb Report. “This is a major accomplishment that builds momentum in executing our mission to deliver the world’s first practical flying car,” Kevin Colburn, general manager of Terrafugia, said. In addition to building the car, the company also developed 150 technical documents for the FAA assessment.

The Transition is already available as a plane, but there won’t be a street-legal version until 2022. The flying car will need to meet both the FAA’s and the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration’s safety regulations. People who want to drive and fly the Transition will need a valid sport pilot certificate and driver’s license.
Although the Terrafugia Transition has a 27-foot wingspan, those wings fold up so the flying car can fit into a single-car garage. It resembles an airplane more than a car and still needs a runway for takeoff. It has a range of about 400 miles and a flight speed of about 100 mph. The flying car has a 100-hp Rotax 912iS Sport fuel-injected engine, according to Terrafugia. It runs on premium gasoline or 100LL airplane fuel. The car version will pack a hybrid-electric motor.
The Transition comes standard with “a Dynon Skyview avionics package, a BRS airframe parachute, four-wheel hydraulic disc brakes, airbags, [and] a rigid carbon-fiber safety cage that meets automotive standards.” The interior boasts luxury finishes with leather seats, and its shifter includes Park, Drive, and Fly selections.
*What is the FAA, and what does it do?*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1055700764214157312“FAA” is short for “Federal Aviation Administration.” This agency regulates aviation in the United States. It’s in charge of registering aircraft, developing aircraft safety standards, creating air traffic rules, overseeing air traffic control, and investigating accidents.
The FAA also certifies foreign aircraft repair facilities and their mechanics. It shares aeronautical data and negotiates bilateral airworthiness agreements with other countries. In addition, the FAA licenses space launch facilities to private companies like SpaceX through its Office of Commercial Space Transportation (AST).
Flying cars could help reduce commute times, decrease reliance on roads, and increase access to remote locations. The FAA is one of the government agencies charged with approving these new vehicles. The Terrafugia Transition has earned the FAA’s approval and now needs to meet the NHTSA’s requirements.















*Next is a video of first Electric Car to be sold in the United States: PAL V from the Netherlands*










*TOMORROW'S POSTING "HERE THEY COME- GET READY": HANK'S TV THEORY TO ALL THIS,
please stay turned in:*
Have a good day, thank you for signing in and following.
from the Colorado High Country.
thank you, Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

HERES THE RIGHT VIDEO. HANK


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> I'm just not so sure Flowcopter do t think that IA going to work. Thank you for your input, have a great night.
> Hank


I'm not promoting the Flowcopter, only using it as an illustration of how a variable-speed drive system enables control of a multi-copter, and that an electrical power system is not the only possible variable-speed drive system.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The Terrafugia - like any Light Sport category craft - is a marginally useful aircraft. Like every other driving-flying thing, it's a terrible car and can't possibly meet safety standards, unless it is restricted to low-speed use (and then it can't be used on a highway). I'm impressed that they have made it work well enough to be allowed to fly under the Light Sport rules, but I wouldn't want one and it won't change the transportation world in any useful way.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Because burning $8/gallon avgas makes sense on the road, as does paying additional, EV-style, registration fees because there's zero road tax on avgas.

The owners will be coming to this forum, en masse, asking how to put a forklift motor into their aerocar 😂


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The Terrafugia Transition is such a failure that the company has removed it entirely from their website (there's a Transition page empty other than headings, with no path to it from the site home page); they now feature only their new brand (Commaris) and its non-roadworthy quadcopter/fixed-wing design (Seeker).


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> Although the Terrafugia Transition has a 27-foot wingspan, those wings fold up so the flying car can fit into a single-car garage. It resembles an airplane more than a car and still needs a runway for takeoff. It has a range of about 400 miles and a flight speed of about 100 mph. The flying car has a 100-hp Rotax 912iS Sport fuel-injected engine, according to Terrafugia. It runs on premium gasoline or 100LL airplane fuel. The car version will pack a hybrid-electric motor.


I'll note that with the problem of trying to fit in both road wheels and propulsion plus wings and aero propulsion, the Transition is not electric at all. That Rotax is a very common aircraft engine; it's an air-cooled opposed 4-cylinder as is traditional for this segment of general aviation, but it's lighter than more traditional engines such as from Continental and Lycoming.

_Edited portion:_
The Transition was to have a complex mechanical drive system from the engine to the wheels, including a CVT (and shafts, and belts). The most recent material that I have found from Terrafugia is from over two years ago, and does include "Hybrid-electric motors for drive mode", with no further explanation.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*"HERE THEY COME-ARE YOU READY": HANK'S TV THEORY TO ALL THIS ARE YOU READY, **please stay turned in:*
 *Here's my take on all of this: Recently I have been **discussing** to family and friends and all of you the topic
of **Aviation**, Drones and Electric Cars. I** have allowed many of you to voice your opinions, I have shown examples of Flying cars that are certified, some are now being sold here in the United States. I have gotten a lot of opinions both good and contrary. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion here to speak clearly. i try to maintain a professional demeanor when conducting talks on this thread.
Some of the statements received stated this is all a fantasy it can't or won't happen, to expensive, lots of reasons, which all make since and need to be listened too.*
, the had a lot of critics and failure's
Now I shall explain my "TV Theory" lets all look at where television has come from and beyond. First appeared in 1927, several different people claimed to have invented it. in late 1949-1950 The first networks were invented and by the 1950's people started putting black and white TV's in their homes. We had one of the popular TVs back then a Sylvania Halo screen B & W tv. Fast forward here color TV's are now possible and affordable and by today you can get a multitude of features and sizes in them. "Who has a B&W tv Today'
Okay A similar thing happened at the start of Aviation. The Wright Brothers started off in 1903, they had a lot of critics as well as equipment failures before they got it "WRIGHT" "RIGHT" (sorry i like puns". If it wasn't for them then how would we have drones on mars today . It took a lot of people, a lot of money, and perseverance. But it happened.
The same thing can happen here remember what this topic included a fifty year time element. Their is a author JD Robb that writes a book series about "====in Death" titles which allegedly takes place in 2050, not so far from now. in that series they talk about businesses owned and operated on other planets, vacations on other planets. Just like today when we talk about a trip to Yellowstone of the Grand Canyon. So in todays world, Most of us realize it CAN HAPPEN, I say let it.

Have a good Day,
From the Colorado High Country,
Hank


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> Recently I have been discussing to family and friends and all of you the topic of Aviation, Drones and Electric Cars. I have allowed many of you to voice your opinions...


_Allowed_?


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## OR-Carl (Oct 6, 2018)

hankweirauch said:


> So in todays world, Most of us realize it CAN HAPPEN, I say let it.


Just because something CAN happen, does not mean it is inevitable, or even a good idea. Look up the ford Nucleon - surely we can all agree that it would have been a real nightmare to have thousands of nuclear powered cars zipping around. 

Comparing a flying car to a modern TV seems like a stretch. A modern TV does not fundamentally differ from an old TV - it shows you pictures that come from far away. Every aspect of the technology has gotten better, and the way the signals are delivered has changed because other technological changes (the internet) made it more convenient to do it that way. 

To suggest that flying cars are an inevitable development, you would have to propose some reason that our network of roads is going to become obsolete. We have over 4 million miles of just highways in this nation, do you think we are going to run out of throughput? As density increases, mass transit is the logical technology, not taking to the skies. 

The reason we do not have flying cars, and in my opinion, never will is simple: they do not make sense. We have the technology to do all sorts of things, but the market selects the most suitable (read: cheapest, safest, most convenient, or most entrenched) option and runs with it. Barring access to some sort of failure-proof and fuel-sipping anti-gravity system, the whole concept just does not pencil out.

Subways do not make for good Sci-Fi, but they make a hell of a lot more sense for actually moving people around dense urban areas; hence why they are ubiquitous. 

Humanity has a serious energy problem, and I think it is laughable that the solution would be to replace a bad system (everyone driving around in their own car) with a terrible system (everyone flying around in their own helicopter). I am sort of starting to think that humanity probably deserves the fate that it is currently working towards (slow grinding extinction, along with 90% of the other species on this planet). As much as I love sci-fi and the thought of humans exploring space, in reality we would probably just continue to be dicks, and use our godlike powers to set up McDonald's franchises across the milky way.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

The other thing people discount is the rate and possibility for innovation. They say "nobody thought X would be possible 50 years ago, yet here it is. So other things may be possible the same way..." Except the thing to remember is that modern innovation is achieved through extremely fast calculations, modelling and simulations. It is a relatively recent thing, but allows us to short-circuit many decades of trial and error to conclude that something isn't viable.


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

cricketo said:


> The other thing people discount is the rate and possibility for innovation. They say "nobody thought X would be possible 50 years ago, yet here it is. So other things may be possible the same way..." Except the thing to remember is that modern innovation is achieved through extremely fast calculations, modelling and simulations. It is a relatively recent thing, but allows us to short-circuit many decades of trial and error to conclude that something isn't viable.


Thank you for your input.
Have a nice day. Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

OR-Carl said:


> Just because something CAN happen, does not mean it is inevitable, or even a good idea. Look up the ford Nucleon - surely we can all agree that it would have been a real nightmare to have thousands of nuclear powered cars zipping around.
> 
> Comparing a flying car to a modern TV seems like a stretch. A modern TV does not fundamentally differ from an old TV - it shows you pictures that come from far away. Every aspect of the technology has gotten better, and the way the signals are delivered has changed because other technological changes (the internet) made it more convenient to do it that way.
> 
> ...


Thank you for replying. Hank


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

OR-Carl said:


> Just because something CAN happen, does not mean it is inevitable, or even a good idea. Look up the ford Nucleon - surely we can all agree that it would have been a real nightmare to have thousands of nuclear powered cars zipping around.
> 
> Comparing a flying car to a modern TV seems like a stretch. A modern TV does not fundamentally differ from an old TV - it shows you pictures that come from far away. Every aspect of the technology has gotten better, and the way the signals are delivered has changed because other technological changes (the internet) made it more convenient to do it that way.
> 
> ...


Have a good weekend, I welcome your input. Hank


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

hankweirauch said:


> Have a good weekend, I welcome your input. Hank


How old are you ?


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

cricketo said:


> How old are you ?


Senior Citizen, retired February 2022. Worked 27 years Law Enforcement, 9 years Broadcasting, 17 years Dominos Pizza , and 19 Years Kroger.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

So you're like 88 or so ?


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

cricketo said:


> So you're like 88 or so ?


NOPE SOME OF IT OVERLAPPED, Why does it matter? Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The S-10 is obviously his go to church truck. Here's Hank's daily:


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

hankweirauch said:


> NOPE SOME OF IT OVERLAPPED, Why does it matter? Hank


There are two major groups of people who are impossible to talk to because they don't want to hear it - very young people, and very old people.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

GTFO my lawn, @cricketo 
😂

Nonsense. 

You've clearly never raised teenagers


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> GTFO my lawn, @cricketo
> 😂
> 
> Nonsense.
> ...


You're saying teenagers are easy to convince and they accept everything you tell them as the ultimate truth ?  Those are some quality teenagers you got, not that made in China crap everyone else has


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*coming Next*


remy_martian said:


> The S-10 is obviously his go to church truck. Here's Hank's daily:
> View attachment 129914


Hey that's really cool too, does it come in Four wheel drive and has an 8 track, oh how about Sony Beta player???. 
Here's my ride in reality: Hank












So far tonight received 10 inches of snow, be plowing in the morning.
Sorry got knocked offline for awhile major snowstorm here.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

You're old if you think teens are "very young"


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Someone needs V2L/V2G

Buy a Leaf, put a plow on it, power your house, vs that girlyman ATV


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

That ATV is Polaris.... this is also Polaris, electric :


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*tomorrow's report: Who will Control???? Plus their mission statements more to come on all this, please stay tuned!!!*


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

cricketo said:


> That ATV is Polaris.... this is also Polaris, electric :


That is really cool also, I can't even find the extension cord, or does it come Bluetooth!!!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

🤦‍♂️ (old people...)


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> 🤦‍♂️ (old people...)


That's relative, in me the body is old, but the mind is still 18! That's just mind over matter, you don't mind and I don't matter 
O and by the way, I can't be SeNILE , I haven't. Been to Egypt yet!🐫🗻


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

hankweirauch said:


> That's relative, in me the body is old, but the mind is still 18! That's just mind over matter, you don't mind and I don't matter
> O and by the way, I can't be SeNILE , I haven't. Been to Egypt yet!🐫🗻


♿🇱🇷


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

^ based on that posting, I think you missed his age by decade or two. @cricketo 

Here's a pic of his sister plugging in his first electric car:


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> ^ based on that posting, I think you missed his age by decade or two. @cricketo
> 
> Here's a pic of his sister plugging in his first electric car:
> 
> View attachment 129920


That actually looks like a sweet ride we just got to upgrade it to Lithium and give it a PWM speed controller.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What kind of forklift motor will fit one of those? 😛


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

hydraulic pump motor should do  still technically a forklift motor...


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Can I drop a Prius hybrid setup into it, cuz all the hot women hang out at the petrol station, looking for a gasdaddy, these days?


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

*note to Hank: not gassy daddy, so you're out, old man


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> ^ based on that posting, I think you missed his age by decade or two. @cricketo
> 
> Here's a pic of his sister plugging in his first electric car:
> 
> View attachment 129920


Where's the hitching post to tie up my mare????🦓


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*FEDERAL AVIATION DEPARTMENT OF UNITED STATES
ADMINISTRATRAION HOMELAND SECURITY SPACE FORCE

WHO SHOULD CONTROL THE FUTURE??*

*HERE'S THE MISSION STATEMENT ON EACH AGENCY!*

*YOU THE GENERAL POPULATION CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHO SHOULD CONTROL** THE FUTURE**.*

*MISSION STATEMENT FAA:*
MISSION STATEMENTS​The mission of the FAA is *to provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world*. The role of the FAA Airports organization in meeting this goal is to provide leadership in planning and developing a safe and efficient national airport system to satisfy the needs of aviation interests of the United States. Mar 31, 2022

*MISSION STATEMENT HOMELAND SECURITY:*

The Department of Homeland Security has a vital mission: *to secure the nation from the many threats we face*. This requires the dedication of more than 240,000 employees in jobs that range from aviation and border security to emergency response, from cybersecurity analyst to chemical facility inspector .Apr 5, 2022

*MISSION STATEMENT OF SPACE FORCE:*

The Space Force mission is *to enhance the way U.S. forces fight and to provide decision makers with additional military options*. This means organizing, training and equipping service members to successfully conduct global space operations. Dec 17, 2021

 Ok all of you out there in Do it yourself Electric Car Forum land, please decide for yourself who should control this chaos, confusion, and what ever else might pop up in the next 50 years. Choose wisely now, this is your FUTURE we are dealing with. Have FUN with this, lets see where this goes the next few days.

From the Snowy Colorado Hilltop
19 inches last night: Be Safe,
Thank you
*Hank*


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

None of those apply here. This is not an aircraft forum.

Merely getting states like California to allow _any_ vehicle to be imported to be EV converted would be a major coup.

Don't need any dilution here on what we ask for from regulators and representatives.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

A Long time ago, John Lennon wrote a song* "IMAGINE", *So in this case don't be a _*pragmatic* _be a* seer *for this please and *imagine* hundreds of these TF-X flying cars flying, taking off and landing in your town in twenty-five years . Mixing in with regular commercial Electric Airliners , and the new electric Drone Taxis.

*




*



Please enjoy, your comments are always welcomed and appreciated. Have a good night.
thank you,
Hank


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

A motor or gearbox failure in that deathtrap means Gravity wins the race to your 100th birthday (for you, three years away...)

In flight mode, lose an engine or gearbox with engines that far outboard with no vertical fin and it'll go into a frisbee flight mode.

Idiotic. Hype cartoon. Bull$hit. The worst of each of its operational regimes.

What's with the flying cars fixation? Up where you are, I doubt the damned things would even hover 10 ft AGL and even if they did, they'd overheat.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

hankweirauch said:


> A Long time ago, John Lennon wrote a song* "IMAGINE", *So in this case don't be a _*pragmatic* _be a* seer *for this please and *imagine* hundreds of these TF-X flying cars flying, taking off and landing in your town in twenty-five years . Mixing in with regular commercial Electric Airliners , and the new electric Drone Taxis.
> 
> 
> *
> ...


I am imagining it right now:


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> I am imagining it right now:


Thank you for your reply, not sure about how the video fits in. Maybe you are referencing to what happens when government's have to much control.
Hank


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

hankweirauch said:


> Thank you for your reply, not sure about how the video fits in. Maybe you are referencing to what happens when government's have to much control.
> Hank


No I was referencing hundreds of helicopters in the air at once. You say "flying car" and all I see is a helicopter. A noisy, expensive, dangerous helicopter.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> No I was referencing hundreds of helicopters in the air at once. You say "flying car" and all I see is a helicopter. A noisy, expensive, dangerous helicopter.


Ok gotcha on that everything will be noisier for sure, thanks for replying. Hank


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

hankweirauch said:


> Ok gotcha on that everything will be noisier for sure, thanks for replying. Hank


A huge part of the expense of aviation is in maintenance, inspection, and safety protocols. We just get in our car, fire it up, and hit the highway 2 minutes later. What you don't see in the CG simulation is 15 minutes of preflight inspection while your wife and kid are yelling it's time to leave we're late.

Drones are awesome and everything but they still need a preflight every time. Also they crash extremely often.


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> A huge part of the expense of aviation is in maintenance, inspection, and safety protocols. We just get in our car, fire it up, and hit the highway 2 minutes later. What you don't see in the CG simulation is 15 minutes of preflight inspection while your wife and kid are yelling it's time to leave we're late.
> 
> Drones are awesome and everything but they still need a preflight every time. Also they crash extremely often.


*I Totally agree with you on all of this. Please stay tuned to tomorrows posting Entiled: Electric Airplanes they have Arrived."

Hank





























*


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The Terrafugia TF-X is a ridiculous decade-old fantasy. Terrafugia gave up and shut down U.S. operations last year. The new and unrelated Commaris thing appears to be a "reorganize and try again" effort.


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> I Totally agree with you on all of this. Please stay tuned to tomorrows posting Entiled: Electric Airplanes they have Arrived."


Some battery-electric and hybrid aircraft have arrived. The ones shown are not in any way drones or flying cars, and none are of the fashionable VTOL type, because VTOL takes too much energy to be practical for significant range.


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Again, this is not an aircraft site. A submarine was among the first of electric vehicles, so what about those? Then there's SpaceX using Model S traction motors in the Falcon 9 rocket. What about those?

This is an electric car site. You're doing nothing as far as an EV conversion goes....just BSing about rotorcraft toys that nobody here is buying into.

Few here have designed an aircraft, though there are some A&Ps...they aren't dumb enough to try any of this cartoon hyped nonsense because the battery tech is not there yet, for starters, and rotorcraft are an irresponsible use of energy for mobility for the masses when antarctic ice shelves are breaking off because of mankind's irresponsible energy choices.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*DIY Electric Car Forums Since 2007
A forum community dedicated to DIY electric car owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about electric vehicle conversions, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
A **vehicle is** a machine that transports people or cargo. Vehicles include wagons, bicycles, motor vehicles, railed vehicles, watercraft, amphibious vehicles, **aircraft **and spacecraft. **Wikipedia*
*Please stay tuned to tomorrows video in will explain all the technical stuff to you diy people and will probably make sense. This is an approved thread entitled **"Aviation, Drones, and Electric Cars next 50 years, so thats what we talk about here.*
*thank you,*
*Hank*


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

hankweirauch said:


> *to you diy people and will probably make sense. *


Let me help you... This is where you want to post: Electric Aircraft - Endless Sphere
The other thing you need to realize there are plenty of professional engineers here who have ten times the clue you've got, so don't confuse friendliness for lack of experience or knowledge.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*"ELECTRIC AIRPLANES THEY HAVE ARRIVED:"*
Here's a video that should make this thread come together and answer all the questions you have had this past week or so it runs about 42 minutes and is rather intense on all the tech stuff in awesome details sit back get comfortable kick off your shoes , please enjoy and remember I welcome your comments, no right or wrong answers here.
.
*



*
Now this next week starting today we will be discussing the Electric Airplane its role, problems, and Coming Events. Major Aircraft manufactures Like Boeing and Airbus have electric commercial airplanes in the works as we speak. DHL cargo is planning electric aircraft, Easy Jet is planning on electric airplane fleet as earl y as 2030, Tesla is also jumping in.. So fasten your seatbelts, and get comfortable because here they come.

thank you, 
Hank








Boeing







DHL







EasyJet







Tesla


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I've deadstick landed an engine-failed, and also a fuel-starved, fixed wing.

The engine seized at 21,000ft over this and main breaker popped and killed all electricals:








See anywhere to land?

Yeah...in an aircraft, $hit's gotta work, unlike a car. I was in the soup IFR a half hour prior. You wouldn't have the pleasure of my company here if the engine stopped and killed the electrical bus 30 minutes prior.

I took a peek at @cricketo's site:









A Sevcon? 😬


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> A Sevcon? 😬


One of the trending things there has been to take the guts out of a Zero and shove it into one of those glider looking thingies  So yes, they fly using Zero's Sevcon... though I'm not sure the two things you connected were actually related. I think Sevcon was a general thread.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

^^^ Still waiting for a battery with the energy density. It's on my bucket list to convert a GA aircraft. Futile with today's batteries.


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

^^It was in the Aviation section, as you can see by the index I circled. Aviation requires some pretty solid electronics, especially power electronics.

Then there's the guy wanting to build a quadcopter who promises he only wants to fly 10 feet AGL over a field.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> ^^^ Still waiting for a battery with the energy density. It's on my bucket list to convert a GA aircraft. Futile with today's batteries.


There is one of those Zero-based E-Gulls at the Twin Oaks airpark (West of Beaverton) btw. I think it belongs to somebody from experimental aviation org or something like that.


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> ^^It was in the Aviation section, as you can see by the index I circled. Aviation requires some pretty solid electronics, especially power electronics.
> 
> Then there's the guy wanting to build a quadcopter who promises he only wants to fly 10 feet AGL over a field.


Alright. Well, ES was started by some e-bike enthusiasts, and it expanded into other topics after the fact. Needless to say there are few people there doing actual engineering, so it's a perfect place for Hank to drop some hankies.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"Oh Gravity, thou art a heartless bitch"
-Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory


----------



## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Batteries Included - KITPLANES


Before the eXenos, Gabriel DeVault’s first electric aircraft was the eGull.




www.kitplanes.com





That red Quark is the one I was thinking, was parked in front of that eaa105 hangar too when I was there.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I've probably heard & seen that electric flying over the house...I thought it was merely a super muffled Rotax 😂 You can only hear the props.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> I've probably heard & seen that electric flying over the house...I thought it was merely a super muffled Rotax 😂 You can only hear the props.


Mr. Remy_^martian or Mr.Cricketo
Can either of you find out if Jim Bede had a
Electric BD-5 aircraft at the 1971 Oshgosh Airshow, someone told me today, that was actually called the first electric airplane. I knew the mini jet was very popular also the prop job
But this was a first about the electric version. Have a good night.
Hank


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The BD-5 used a Cayuna snowmobile engine, I think there was talk of a Wankel, then a more reliable Honda car engine was used after a few people got killed, later was fitted with a micro turbo jet which was made famous by the Budweiser airshow team. We came close to buying a BD-5 airframe a while back, but I settled for my 250MPH cruise factory-built, in which I commuted 750 miles to work, keeping the kids in better schools & with their friends.

There was no electric BD-5 in the days of lead acid batteries - some author covering it called it "electric", but they all ran on dinojuice:









The First Electric Airplane - The BD-5 Micro At Oshkosh 1971! - blog - AirPigz


Jim Bede and a big crowd with the prototype BD-5 at Oshkosh 1971 C’mon, work with me ...




airpigz.com


----------



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> Can either of you find out if Jim Bede had a
> Electric BD-5 aircraft at the 1971 Oshgosh Airshow, someone told me today, that was actually called the first electric airplane.


You might think that, if you see headlines in web searches and jump to conclusions without reading the article, or believe rumours from "someone" without checking them. Here's the likely headline:
_The First Electric Airplane - The BD-5 Micro At Oshkosh 1971!_
... which certainly _looks _superficially like it is about an electrically powered aircraft, but it's absolutely *not*.

Bede used snowmobile engines in a desperate attempt to get enough power with low enough weight. They routinely crapped out in flight, which was one of the factors which made the BD-5 so dangerous (the handling was also beyond what low-time pilots could handle, and as a single seater there was no safe way to train for it). They couldn't even handle the weight of a small conventional aircraft engine; they certainly couldn't handle a battery and motor with 1971 technology.

By the way, it's "Oshkosh" (Wisconsin), the location of the EAA and their famous annual fly-in event.

If some crazy person were to convert a BD-5 to electric, it would actually fit in the "Non Road Going Vehicles" section of DIY Electric Car.

_Note: remy_martian and I posted basically the same thing, writing our responses at the same time. I'll leave this post anyway._


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The BD-5 used a Cayuna snowmobile engine, I think there was talk of a Wankel, then a more reliable Honda car engine was used after a few people got killed, later was fitted with a micro turbo jet which was made famous by the Budweiser airshow team. We came close to buying a BD-5 airframe a while back, but I settled for my 250MPH cruise factory-built, in which I commuted 750 miles to work, keeping the kids in better schools & with their friends.
> 
> There was no electric BD-5 in the days of lead acid batteries - some author covering it called it "electric", but they all ran on dinojuice:
> 
> ...


Thank you, I didn't think it could have been electric but someone saw an article and told me. I actually met Jim Bede at a airshow Newton KS. In 1975 he was promoting the BD -4 Kit, anyway it was a tricycle model looked like a demented Skyhawk .
Hank


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

A lot of the aerodynamic work for Bede and Rutan was done by John Roncz.

I got wood over the BD-10:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede_BD-10


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> A lot of the aerodynamic work for Bede and Rutan was done by John Roncz.
> 
> I got wood over the BD-10.


Vari-ease or something like that was Burt Rutan was t it . Didn't Beech make a version called the starship.
Hank


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yes. Vari-Eze, Beech Starship biz turboprop (there's one in the Boeing Museum in Everett WA), Voyager, and Spaceship One are all Rutan creations. 

Design genius, that guy.


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Yes. Vari-Eze, Beech Starship biz turboprop (there's one in the Boeing Museum in Everett WA), Voyager, and Spaceship One are all Rutan creations.
> 
> Design genius, that guy.


I once wanted to build the basic Velocity kit. But I woke up, had a couple of kids ran out of money, anyway I thought it was cooler than what I was driving for work. 
Hank


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The brothers of a friend built a Dragonfly, which got me into planes... if you want efficient air transport, that was/is it. Fast on very little power (I want to say half VW engine, but Covid messed my recall certainty up).

I helped another friend build the composite wing for a Cozy. Hotwired foam and all...he died of cancer a few years ago - I can't help but wonder if it was from the epoxy.


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The brothers of a friend built a Dragonfly, which got me into planes... if you want efficient air transport, that was/is it. Fast on very little power (I want to say half VW engine, but Covid messed my recall certainty up).
> 
> I helped another friend build the composite wing for a Cozy. Hotwired foam and all...he died of cancer a few years ago - I can't help but wonder if it was from the epoxy.


I have family members that own the major body shop in this area, two have lung problems . They
We're painters. 
Hank


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

hankweirauch said:


> I have family members that own the major body shop in this area, two have lung problems . They
> We're painters.
> Hank


The famous BD-4 Kit Plane | Bedecorp


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Part of my life, Nine years was with the Sheriffs Department in Wichita, Ks. known as "The Air Capital of the World", Boeing, Beech, Cessna and Lear back then all made aircraft in that City. My duties were a Forensic Investigator, working mainly Homicides and Arson for which I trained at Quantico. My secondary duties placed me in charge of the Sheriffs Airplane which at that time was a donated from Cessna, 1969 Cessna 172, which was used for prisoner transportation, mamajuana patrol/eradication and of course anything else I could justify law enforcement related, did that for awhile have some stories to tell. That and my duties as a Captain in the Civil Air Patrol , looking for lost or missing aircraft, where I flew either a piper Cherokee, or a Beech T-34 which was definitely my favorite.
Have a goodnight
.Hank


----------



## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*Harbour Air and magniX Announce Successful Flight of World’s First Commercial Electric Airplane*

10 Dec, 2019

_Inaugural flight is the first step in becoming the world’s first all-electric commercial fleet_
*VANCOUVER, British Columbia – December 10, 2019 –* Harbour Air, North America’s largest seaplane airline and magniX, the company powering the electric aviation revolution, today announced the successful flight of the world’s first all-electric commercial aircraft. The successful flight of the ePlane, a six-passenger DHC-2 de Havilland Beaver magnified by a 750-horsepower (560 kW) magni500 propulsion system, took place on the Fraser River at Harbour Air Seaplanes terminal in Richmond (YVR South) this morning. The plane was piloted by Harbour Air CEO and founder Greg McDougall. This historic flight signifies the start of the third era in aviation – the electric age.
“Today, we made history,” said Greg McDougall, CEO and founder of Harbour Air Seaplanes. “I am incredibly proud of Harbour Air’s leadership role in re-defining safety and innovation in the aviation and seaplane industry. Canada has long held an iconic role in the history of aviation, and to be part of this incredible world-first milestone is something we can all be really proud of.”
Earlier this year, Harbour Air announced its partnership with magniX and the company’s intention to build the world’s first completely electric commercial seaplane fleet. The magni500, which was unveiled at the Paris Air Show in June, 2019, is a high-power-density electric propulsion system that provides a clean and efficient way to power airplanes. Today that plan took flight and became a reality.
“In December 1903, the Wright Brothers launched a new era of transportation—the aviation age—with the first flight of a powered aircraft. Today, 116 years later, with the first flight of an all-electric powered commercial aircraft, we launched the electric era of aviation,” said Roei Ganzarski, CEO of magniX. “The transportation industry and specifically the aviation segment that has been, for the most part, stagnant since the late 1930s, is ripe for a massive disruption. Now we are proving that low-cost, environmentally friendly, commercial electric air travel can be a reality in the very near future.”
magniX and Harbour Air will now begin the certification and approval process for the propulsion system and the retrofitting of aircraft. Once the certification is complete, the rest of the fleet can be magnified with magniX’s all-electric propulsion technology.
*About Harbour Air*
Founded in 1982 with two small seaplanes, Harbour Air is North America’s largest seaplane airline — and the first to be fully carbon-neutral. The company’s international seaplane service, which originally began as a service for the forestry industry in B.C., is now a quintessential west coast experience. With a showcase fleet of more than 40 aircraft, Harbour Air offers up to 300 daily scheduled flights, scenic tours, adventure packages, and private flights. With 12 scheduled destinations connecting downtown Vancouver, Victoria, Seattle (WA), Nanaimo, Tofino, Whistler, Richmond (YVR South), Sechelt, Salt Spring Island, Pitt Meadows, Maple Bay and Comox, B.C. born Harbour Air welcomes 500,000 passengers every year. For more information, visit www.harbourair.com.


*





































*


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Harbour Air's project is particularly relevant to this forum, as it is a conversion to EV of a conventional (and very old) aircraft. After a couple of years, the motor works as expected (from the first flight), but they still haven't even started testing a viable battery solution.

The "world's first commercial electric aircraft" claim is dubious. Although the project is intended for commercial use (and so they are working with our national aviation regulator for approval), the aircraft as it exists is not approved for commercial use, and is not usable for any practical purpose (because the temporary battery sits in the cabin, leaving no usable capacity).


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> Harbour Air's project is particularly relevant to this forum, as it is a conversion to EV of a conventional (and very old) aircraft. After a couple of years, the motor works as expected (from the first flight), but they still haven't even started testing a viable battery solution.
> 
> The "world's first commercial electric aircraft" claim is dubious. Although the project is intended for commercial use (and so they are working with our national aviation regulator for approval), the aircraft as it exists is not approved for commercial use, and is not usable for any practical purpose (because the temporary battery sits in the cabin, leaving no usable capacity).


Thanks for your comment. Stayed tuned for tomorrows post: *Featuring the first two seater electric trainer*.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Pipstrel:


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Yep this is the one I will be promoting tomorrow.
Pipstrel alpha electro,
That's the one certified for U S . The pipstrel Vellis is a similar model but only certified in Europe not U.SA.
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Pipstrel:


*The Pipstrel Velis is a similar model but only certified in Europe not U.SA.
Apha Elctro is certified U.S.A.*


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*WEDNESDAY MORNING POSTING









PIPISTREL ALPHA ELECTRO: THE WORLD’S FIRST 2-SEAT ELECTRIC TRAINER:*
*The greenest way of learning to fly!*


 Being able to conduct training on smaller airfields closer to towns with zero C02 emissions and minimum noise is also a game changer! Alpha Electro meets micro light and ASTM LSA requirements, as well as standards for electric propulsion systems. In certain countries it is already approved for PPL training, and we are adding more countries to the list constantly Pipistrel is working with the FAA to approve an exemption to allow pilot training operations and the application for the EASA Type certification has been made.
Every single element of aircraft has been refined to be lighter, more efficient and more reliable than before. The 60+ kW electric motor only weighs 20 kg and is more powerful than the popular Rotax 912 series, typically used on micro lights and LSAs. The 21 kWh battery pack is dual-redundant and designed to be either quickly replaceable within minutes or charged in less than one hour, thanks to the next generation of Pipistrel’s Battery Management technology. The airframe uses proven features from hundreds of Pipistrel’s aircraft flying worldwide.

Here's a video about the aircrafts details.
* 



 *


This next video is a 10 minute flying lesson with you behind the stick
*




Hope you all enjoyed this today, Please Reply with your comments.
Thank You,
Hank*


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

"charged in less than an hour" is just marketing bs. Yes charged in less than an hour if the $10,000 Chademo or CCS is somewhere nearby!

Next big thing; double charge cables! Because you weren't annoyed enough about being ICEd at the charger or waiting for someone to move their car that's been charged for an hour....now we can deal with *huge behemoth EVs that will use more than once charge cord at the public chargers!* Oh joy.









GM Patents Dual Charging Port Tech With Huge Possibilities for EV Trucks


Split that big battery pack into two virtual bits, charge ‘em separately with individual charge cables.




www.motortrend.com


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> "charged in less than an hour" is just marketing bs. Yes charged in less than an hour if the $10,000 Chademo or CCS is somewhere nearby!
> 
> Next big thing; double charge cables! Because you weren't annoyed enough about being ICEd at the charger or waiting for someone to move their car that's been charged for an hour....now we can deal with *huge behemoth EVs that will use more than once charge cord at the public chargers!* Oh joy.
> 
> ...


Are you talking cars or airplane here. The Alpha Electro is planning a high power charging station for this rig as a quick terminal port, please see photo at the bottom of the post or you can simply pop in a other battery pack. Thanks for your input have a great Wednesday.
Thank you, Hank


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

hankweirauch said:


> Are you talking cars or airplane here. The Alpha Electro is planning a high power charging station for this rig as a quick terminal port, please see photo at the bottom of the post or you can simply pop in a other battery pack. Thanks for your input have a great Wednesday.
> Thank you, Hank


Either way charging is the biggest Achilles heel of EVs of any type.

Flight schools are already on shoestring budgets. My flight school had a 1980s Chevy fuel truck that was barely holding together. And we flew 1979 Cessnas.

Oh yeah let's just "pop in" another 500lbs battery!


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> Either way charging is the biggest Achilles heel of EVs of any type.
> 
> Flight schools are already on shoestring budgets. My flight school had a 1980s Chevy fuel truck that was barely holding together. And we flew 1979 Cessnas.
> 
> Oh yeah let's just "pop in" another 500lbs battery!


I'm not sure if you watched the first video or not but part of the plan here had a quick changing pop in and out battery system to keep down the down time so flying schools could swap out the batteries and keep going.
Hank


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

hankweirauch said:


> I'm not sure if you watched the first video or not but part of the plan here had a quick changing pop in and out battery system to keep down the down time so flying schools could swap out the batteries and keep going.
> Hank


Sure thing. So a certified aviation mechanic does the swap out? Because the FAA won't let a student or instructor do that.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

...it might fall under allowed owner maintenance. Changing oil, changing battery....same difference.

/s


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*Special Posting for our Administrator DUNCAN: In appreciation for all you are doing to keep this Forum up and running extremely smoothly. I would like to recognize you and encourage all the members to do the same for a very fine job done Extremely Well.. Administrator Duncan this thread is for you: * New Zealand strait crossed for first time by electric plane

* We are happy to announce that the Pipistrel aircraft promoter from New Zealand and an owner of Pipistrel’s Alpha Electro, Mr. Gary Freedman, became the first pilot to fly over the New Zealand’s Cook Strait in an electric plane. Freedman’s 40-minute solo flight came 101 years after the first person flew a conventional aircraft over the body of water that separates the South Pacific nation’s two main islands.
Mr. Freedman had a lot of support from the local airport management at the Wellington International Airport. “It’s a very exciting day for the airport. A world-record-setting day,” said spokesperson Jenna Raeburn.
As Mr. Freedman made a history flight aimed at drawing attention to the possibilities of greener flying , he said it was only fitting that the first thing he saw when approaching the Wellington coastline was the rotating blade of a wind turbine producing renewable energy. Monday’s flight was timed to coincide with the opening of a pivotal U.N. climate summit in Glasgow, Scotland.
For the 78 kilometer (48 mile) trip, Freedman flew it at just 1,000 feet (305 meters) above sea level and at the relatively slow speed of 130 kilometers per hour (81 mph) in order to preserve its charge. Mr. Freedman said he was ecstatic when he landed, and the technology worked better than he’d hoped. “We still had 40% left in the battery,” he said. “We could have almost flown back again.”*

*



*
*Please enjoy,
From the Colorado High Country*
*Hank





















*


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Flying at 1000 feet was very foolish and would not preserve battery. 

He should have taken it to service ceiling to give himself more than that mile of glide at 1000MSL if an engine or electrical failure occurred (as it might in low flying a high voltage system in salt air). At 1000 feet, he'd also be below radar coverage if the plane decided to go chumming for sharks.

You can't get more anal pucker than flying over a body of water in a SEL airplane where land is beyond your glide distance. Unless you are a fool.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Flying at 1000 feet was very foolish and would not preserve battery.
> 
> He should have taken it to service ceiling to give himself more than that mile of glide at 1000MSL if an engine or electrical failure occurred (as it might in low flying a high voltage system in salt air). At 1000 feet, he'd also be below radar coverage if the plane decided to go chumming for sharks.
> 
> You can't get more anal pucker than flying over a body of water in a SEL airplane where land is beyond your glide distance. Unless you are a fool.


We all do foolish things as we go thru LIFE, some of the time, sometimes just lucky to survive .
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The fools in this case were the authorities in addition to the pilot. That flight was bordering on reckless.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> The fools in this case were the authorities in addition to the pilot. That flight was bordering on reckless.


He had to delay his takeoff 15 minutes because of rain. My guess he had to modify his cruise altitude, to maintain VFR. He had a Cessna Caravan for a chase plane accompany him.
I feel sorry for the pilot of the Caravan that had to slow fly for the 50 mile trip.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

So, not totally foolish. Good to hear. 1000ft to maintain VFR is scud running.... I almost got caught doing that once. People don't understand, and I didn't back then as a snot nosed kid pilot, that clouds don't move in on you...air temperatures drop on a close dewpoint spread.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> So, not totally foolish. Good to hear. 1000ft to maintain VFR is scud running.... I almost got caught doing that once. People don't understand, and I didn't back then as a snot nosed kid pilot, that clouds don't move in on you...air temperatures drop on a close dewpoint spread.



9:00 am







52 °FPassing clouds.5 mph↑77%29.89 "Hg6 mi
REMY, Here's the weather condition at take off airport, takeoff time, later that day were overcast.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Still should have gone high over the water, but it's moot in that nothing happened.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Still should have gone high over the water, but it's moot in that nothing happened.


I agree at only 48 miles from shore, further than I want to swim. 
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*REIMAGINING REGIONAL TRAVEL*

Stepping aboard the *Alice* is a step into the future. The world’s first clean-sheet, all-electric design – crafted from the ground up around electric propulsion – will transform aviation as we know it.

























*FLIGHT DECK OF THE FUTURE*

*Advanced digital flight deck built with performance, workload reduction and pilot comfort in mind. Alice is the first FAR23 category aircraft with a fly-by-wire, fully electronic flight control system, complemented by touch screen flight displays.*​
* The prototype at the June 2019 Paris Air Show featured a single pusher propeller and twin wingtip motors, a V-tail, and a taildragger landing gear
Eviation was founded in 2015 by Omer Bar-Yohay, Omri Regev and Aviv Tzidon.[3] Risk-sharing partnerships have enabled work to go ahead.[4]
In February 2018, a 650 lb (290 kg) scale model UAV was flown to validate the aerodynamics and flight controls.[4] Kokam was selected to supply pouch lithium polymer batteries to power the full-scale prototype.[4] Work on the power system and drive train was begun.[4][5] Eviation teamed up with Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU) to launch a research and development program in the spring of 2019 at ERAU’s Prescott, Arizona campus.[6] The program would focus on performance analysis, validation and testing, along with preliminary design and sub-scale testing of future electric propulsion and airframe design concepts.[6]
By early 2019, Eviation had secured $200 million of investment to cover certification and production while the first prototype was assembled in Vannes, northwest France.[7] In April 2019, Eviation selected MagniX Magni250s 375 shp (280 kW) electric motors turning at 1,900 rpm as an alternative power option to Siemens 260 kW motors.[8]
At the June 2019 Paris Air Show, a full-size static Alice was exhibited.[9] The first airline customer was announced: Hyannis, Massachusetts-based Cape Air.[10] Cape Air ordered 92 aircraft, priced at $4 million each.[11] MagniX investor Clermont Group from Singapore took a 70% stake in Eviation Aircraft in August 2019.[12] By October 2019, over 150 Alice aircraft had been ordered by two American companies.[13] Further investment of $500 million was still needed to begin serial production.[13]
On 22 January 2020, a fire broke out and the prototype was destroyed.[14][15] No one was injured.[16] The fire broke out in an under-floor battery compartment located in the "operator/passenger area".[17] On 18 May 2020, GKN Aerospace announced their partnership with Eviation on the design and manufacture of the wing, empennage and electrical wiring interconnection system of subsequent Alice airframes.[18] By December 2020, Eviation expected to fly a modified Alice design in 2021, with the wing-tip motors relocated, before certification in the second half of 2023.[2]
In July 2021, Eviation unveiled the updated configuration with a T-tail and two 850 hp (634 kW) Magni650 electric powerplants on each side of the aft fuselage, aiming for a first flight the same year.[19] It should cruise at 220 kn (407 km/h, down from 240 kn), have 440 nmi range, 100 nmi (185 km) less than previously, be powered by an 820 kWh lithium-ion battery weighing 3,720kg (8,200lb), down from a 920 kWh battery weighing 3,600 kg, would have a 6,350 kg maximum take-off weight, down from 6,668 kg, an altitude ceiling of 32,000 ft and a maximum payload of 1,134 kg.[19]
Taxi testing of the first production model began in December 2021 at Arlington Municipal Airport, north of Seattle.[20]
The Eviation Alice is a projected electric aircraft designed to accommodate nine passengers and two crew members. Currently under development, its construction incorporates 95% composite material, is powered by two electric motors, and has a T-tail. Wikipedia *
























Aircraft – Eviation


Aircraft – Eviation
*




ALICE* MAY BE YOU REALLY ARE IN WONDER LAND!!


There it is folks, Voted #! choice in its class TO SUCCEED, however not fully developed yet but close, this is The one most people are watching, only the Future will Tell..

Have a good night.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

With that V-tail and the fans on the wingtips, that thing was a spin deathtrap if one motor lost power. Even the fuselage shape was (is still) conducive to spinning like a frisbee.

Seems like these startups are in it for the hype. How on earth would they certify that with single engine ops? #epicfail

Then the abomination gets hit by "Jewish Lightning" and the engines get placed aft on the fuselage and they change a vertical tail with the insurance money. Looks like they actually hired an aircraft designer (would be interesting to see the timing of that hire..."uh, guys, we need to sawzall the engines off the wing and move them, and that doctor-killer tail has to go").

Was a couple of years I veered off and was designing a homebuilt plane, if you can't tell 😂


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

ATTENTION EVERYONE: PLEASE LOOK AT THE NEWER PHOTOS RENDITION OF THE ENGINES AND TAIL CONVERSION OF ALICE they took Remy_Martians advice and chopped off the wingtip engines and T-tailed it. Better stability and better appearance. Way to go Remy.
Please enjoy,
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

See REMY, you haven't lost it fully (lol) you can still design airplanes. Only this time with your shocking personality they are electric so keep everyone Charged up.
Have a great day.
Hank


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Not me involved in that and they already made the change after a "fire", dude. 

I plan to convert an existing airframe...life's too short to build a bird from scratch, not to mention the health risks of futzing with epoxies and paints.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*Tomorrows Posting*: is on *Easy Jet* a swiss airline company is wanting to be full zero emissions by Late 2030. They plan on doing this either by Electric, Hydrogen or a combination of both. Tune in tomorrow please for the rest of the story.
*thank you, Hank












*


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Green (solar/wind/hydro -> hydrolyzer) hydrogen cannot compete with blue (fracking-> methane-> hydrogen+CO2) hydrogen in terms of cost. It's a fossil fuels scam.

Biofuels (net zero CO2) trades food acreage for fuel. Bad idea. I used it in my F350, though...


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*















Easy Jet plans electric planes by 2030
(CNN) — *Passengers concerned about the impact of air travel on the environment could soon opt for a cleaner alternative.
Easy Jet, the British-based budget airline, has pledged to develop a fleet of electric planes to cover short-haul routes by 2030, which would effectively reduce carbon emissions and noise from its operations.
The no-frills carrier is in partnership with US-based manufacturer Wright Electric to build battery-propelled jets for flights of less than two hours.
Founded in 2016, Wright Electric already has a two-seater electric plane and plans to begin flying a nine-seater next year. It has now applied for a patent on a motor for an electric airliner.
*Electric 'flyways'*
If successful, such an aircraft could be used on popular routes -- or electric "flyways," as easy Jet refers to them -- such as London to Amsterdam.
The technological advancement is "moving fast," according to the airline's chief executive, Johan Lundgren.
Speaking from Amsterdam's Schiphol airport, he said: "From the two-seater aircraft, which is already flying, to the nine-seater, which will fly next year, electric flying is becoming a reality and we can now foresee a future that is not exclusively dependent on jet fuel.
"The target range of the electric plane is around 500 kilometers, which, within our current route portfolio, would mean a route like Amsterdam to London could become the first electric 'flyway.'"
*





Quieter and cheaper*
Wright Electric predicts electric planes will be up to 50% quieter and 10% cheaper than traditional aircraft for airlines to buy and operate.
CEO Jeffrey Engler said: "We are excited about what the next year holds. EasyJet has been a fantastic partner and we look forward to helping introduce low-emissions, low-noise aviation, to Europe.
Given the continuing rise in the price of jet fuel, many airlines would welcome a way to cut emissions, noise and travel costs.
As such, several high-profile engineering companies are also working on electric aircraft. Zunum, backed by Boeing, will use an engine turbine from France's Safran to power an electric motor for a hybrid plane, while Siemens has been working on developing electric motors for aircraft in collaboration with Airbus.
*Hydrogen Story*

*easyJet is closely involved with the UK’s Jet Zero Council, the Aerospace Technology Institute and the FlyZero project*
*The airline has been working in partnership with Airbus since 2019 to support the development of a hydrogen-powered commercial aircraft by 2035*
easyJet has welcomed FlyZero’s announcement that it has developed a concept for a midsize aircraft powered by liquid hydrogen, enabling zero-carbon emission flights. This is another vote of confidence for hydrogen technology.
The concept aircraft would be capable of flying 279 passengers halfway around the world without a stop (i.e. from London to San Francisco), or to anywhere in the world with just one stop to refuel (i.e. from London to Auckland).
The midsize aircraft would store hydrogen at minus 250 degrees Celsius (minus 418 degrees Fahrenheit) in cryogenic fuel tanks at the rear of the plane and in two smaller “cheek” tanks along the forward fuselage to keep the aircraft balanced.
easyJet sees hydrogen powered aircraft playing an important role in its decarbonisation pathway. The airline recently joined the UN-backed “Race to Zero”, committing to reach net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 and setting an interim science-based target for 2035.

*



*
















PLEASE ENJOY, AND REPLY WITH YOUR COMMMENTS. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.
THANK YOU,
HANK


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The business model of a "budget-based" airline is fast gate turnaround. They'll have to do battery swapping to make it work. That means multiple packs at both ends of a segment in a charging queue. $cha ching

They, like me, are waiting for battery density to pop up to feasibility...7 years? Maybe. Cost? Who knows?


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> Seems like these startups are in it for the hype.


It is a pretty common theme at many engineering startups where popular kids go to work - mess around for a while, work on cool tech (or subset of tech), check out before the shop takes a nose dive into the next cool shop. End result doesn't matter, what matters is beer on tap and the latest Macbook Pro on top of a standing desk.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Hype is the reason these people do startups. Ego stroking and much money while the gravy train lasts and no 7 year wait between bankruptcies.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

piotrsko said:


> Hype is the reason these people do startups. Ego stroking and much money while the gravy train lasts and no 7 year wait between bankruptcies.


Thank you for your comments. I am not into ego stroking, but it is nice some industry's are trying to do something about climate change and global warming. At least Easy Jet is trying "One Small Step for Mankind." Have a good day.
Hank


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## OR-Carl (Oct 6, 2018)

Electric planes are only slightly better than electric flying cars, in my opinion. The real issue is that people fly too much. I live about 20 miles from PDX, and there is rarely a time when there is not a jet of some sort in the air over my place. At night, on the rare clear night, I can sometimes see several of them lined up, like watching traffic on the highway. As I wrote these sentences, I heard two planes go over. 

I am sure there is a case to be made for some aviation being indispensable, but I suspect that much of it is not. Clearly flying is a huge concern for the climate, but I just dont see electric planes with a 500km range and 9 seats being much of a game changer. Bio-fuels seem like the logical answer. That they compete with food production is a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one. The added cost should drive down demand, and the free market will decide how to balance frivolous flying with buying groceries. If it cost 5000$ to fly to Europe, you maybe wouldnt hear about so many dopes who go on a weekend trip to Paris or whatever. Of course, the rich will still fly, so a good first step would be to tax anyone who can afford their own jet back down into a more humble station.

And again, while they are not sexy, trains do actually still work. If we had any sense at all, we would be working on a network of high-speed trains to replace the short-hop flights that keep my sky humming day and night. Couple that with some more funding for algae or lignin based biofuels and maybe we would stand a chance of taking aviation to carbon-neutral territory. 

My guess is that most people do not realize how big the problem is, so they will cling to the notion that they can keep on living how they have always lived, and simply wait for some technological marvel to swoop in and fix everything. Since that seems really unlikely to me, if you will excuse me, I am going to go pour Jack Daniels on my breakfast cereal and then go back to bed. Nothing matters. We are all fucked. 😀


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

OR-Carl said:


> Electric planes are only slightly better than electric flying cars, in my opinion. The real issue is that people fly too much. I live about 20 miles from PDX, and there is rarely a time when there is not a jet of some sort in the air over my place. At night, on the rare clear night, I can sometimes see several of them lined up, like watching traffic on the highway. As I wrote these sentences, I heard two planes go over.
> 
> I am sure there is a case to be made for some aviation being indispensable, but I suspect that much of it is not. Clearly flying is a huge concern for the climate, but I just dont see electric planes with a 500km range and 9 seats being much of a game changer. Bio-fuels seem like the logical answer. That they compete with food production is a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one. The added cost should drive down demand, and the free market will decide how to balance frivolous flying with buying groceries. If it cost 5000$ to fly to Europe, you maybe wouldnt hear about so many dopes who go on a weekend trip to Paris or whatever. Of course, the rich will still fly, so a good first step would be to tax anyone who can afford their own jet back down into a more humble station.
> 
> ...


Better rail systems with high speed trains are in the works. Have a good night, at least you can say I don't know JACK, you do.
Hank


hankweirauch said:


> The famous BD-4 Kit Plane | Bedecorp


I am difinetly a big fan of Jim Bede and all his accomplishments. Given today if I could turn back the clock 10-15 years. I could see me building me a BD-4c. My favorite plane I enjoyed was Cessnas 182. So with everything said something with some of the features of C-182-C-210 would be nice, speed not being the only factor here. I am pretty far into photography, so a tricycle Strutless would be my preference, I am old school I like all gages, but I understand the new glass panels are nice, ok I will quit dreaming and get my head out of the clouds now, I prefer VFR over IFR anyway, you can see more, makes me more comfortable when I can keep the ground in site and a little safer too. Enjoy your weekend.
Hank


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> > The 60+ kW electric motor only weighs 20 kg and is more powerful than the popular Rotax 912 series, typically used on micro lights and LSAs.


While Pipistrel people are quite competent and professional, this sort of statement is nonsense. In any size or type of EV conversion, comparing the weight of just the electric motor to the engine is meaningless; any meaningful comparison is of the entire system. In this case this means the little electric motor plus the controller and the massive battery, compared to the heavier Rotax engine and lighter filled fuel system.

Pipistrel makes a few variants of this airframe, but comparing the Alpha Electro to the Virus 121SW:

Dimensions (length, wingspan and wing area, height): identical
Power: 60 kW 1 min, Cruise 50 kW versus 73.5 kW 
empty weight: 368 kg versus 349 kg 
fueled weight: 368 kg versus 372 kg (349 kg plus 30 L of fuel for 1 hour cruise plus 1/2 hour reserve)
Because weight is absolutely critical in these light sport aircraft, Pipistrel has aggressively minimized weight (even omitting an onboard charger), and despite that and the light motor, the operating weight is the same as a gas version carrying the small amount of fuel required to match endurance. The electric version with endurance to match the gas version with full tanks couldn't even leave the ground.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> Oh yeah let's just "pop in" another 500lbs battery!


This is a tiny aircraft. The whole thing weighs 811 pounds - airframe, motor, controller, both battery packs, and all of the other aircraft equipment. The battery packs are not trivial in weight, but they're far less than 500 pounds.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> He had to delay his takeoff 15 minutes because of rain. My guess he had to modify his cruise altitude, to maintain VFR.


When you have to modify your flight plan to an unsafe altitude profile to maintain VFR, the change you should make is cancelling the flight. Many people have died demonstrating this.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

This is getting really tiring to read. Hank, please stop bolding, colouring and otherwise manipulating text apparently for the sole purpose of making it harder to read. Perhaps you don't realize that not everyone's screen is the same; for instance, some people use this forum's option of white text on a dark background, and your black text (instead of default colour text) becomes almost completely unreadable.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

brian_ said:


> This is getting really tiring to read. Hank, please stop bolding, colouring and otherwise manipulating text apparently for the sole purpose of making it harder to read. Perhaps you don't realize that not everyone's screen is the same; for instance, some people use this forum's option of white text on a dark background, and your black text (instead of default colour text) becomes almost completely unreadable.


Good to know, I will take it under advisement, I am assuming everyone has a white screen with black text. Kind of like newsprint or typing paper with black text. I don't do those fancy screens that nobody else can't read..
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Drones good or Bad, Coming Monday this thread, please stay tuned.
While it's not impossible for drones to be used for evil means, drones have also proven essential for business and humanitarian operations. At the end of the days, drones are just like any technology – *they can be either good or bad depending on how people use them*.










Everybody wishing you the BEST Memorial Weekend Work Safe, BE SAFE. Thank you for tuning to this channel.
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*“DRONES” G*ood or *B*ad?? part I​ On the one hand, drones undoubtedly have appeal both because of how fun they are to fly and how they have proven to be useful as commercial or industrial tools. On the other hand, there are still a lot of people who are concerned about the unregulated use of drone technology, especially as a means of surveillance. Just as with any form of technology, drones can be good or bad depending on the purpose of the people flying them. In this article, we take a look at both sides of the coin and present both the good and bad sides of drone technology
*PRO: Drones are fun to fly*
With the increasing number of drone pilots and drones becoming more mainstream, the “fun” factor of drones is certainly a huge contributing factor to the growth of the industry. Modern drones are remarkably easy to fly and even come with beginner modes that can help a person who has never used a drone before to get them up and flying in just a few minutes.
Advances in communication technology have helped drones become more responsive to user input and have increased the range in which drones can maintain connected to the pilot’s handheld controller. With advanced sensors and GPS receivers, drones can maintain stability even in windy conditions and may even have the capability to avoid obstacles automatically.
Adding to the entertainment factor is the ever-growing list of automated camera and flight modes of many drones. These features allow drone pilots to capture highly dynamic shots that would have been very difficult to pull off manually. Through a masterful combination of these camera modes, even an amateur drone photographer or filmmaker can create professional-grade photos and clips.
*CON: Not everyone takes kindly to seeing drones fly near or above them*
Drone pilots are probably familiar with the experience of drawing small crowds whenever they are out flying drones. People are naturally curious about drones and might ask questions or, at least, take a few minutes to look at what you are doing. However, the opposite of this experience is also not uncommon – people demanding that these drones stay away from them.
Over the past few years, there have been numerous reports of drones being literally shot down by guns. This is a story that gets told over and over – a person shoots down a drone that is flying near or above their property because of concerns over their safety or privacy, or simply because they believed that the drone should not be flying inside their private property.
As we shall see later on, fears over privacy, safety, and security are not completely unfounded. There have also been numerous cases where drones have been used for less than benign reasons. However, shooting down a drone is akin to damaging private property – it’s illegal. In just about all cases of drones being shot down, the court always rules in favor of the owner of the drone.
However, that does not take away from the fact that drones still conjure a negative image. In sci-fi movies, drones are almost always depicted as surveillance tools used by evil corporations or unscrupulous individuals. Drones have also gained a reputation for being used by criminals, either to cause harm or to smuggle goods illegally.
While it’s not impossible for drones to be used for evil means, drones have also proven essential for business and humanitarian operations. At the end of the days, drones are just like any technology – they can be either good or bad depending on how people use them.
*PRO: Drones are cheaper and easier to deploy than manned aircraft*
Drones have taken the place of helicopters in many industries that require air support. Notable examples include police surveillance, news coverage, aerial mapping, and emergency response. Air supports is invaluable in these fields as it allows them to cover a lot of ground quickly and gives them a much wider vantage point than if they were restricted on the ground.
Before drones, a huge expense went into flying or tenting a helicopter. Rates can vary between models, but helicopter rental can range from $600 to $800 per hour. There’s also the extra work and time needed to secure the clearance of the local authorities to fly a helicopter, whether it’s over rural or urban areas.
In comparison, $2000 will already be enough to purchase a drone at the upper-middle-range in terms of quality and features. For agencies with a bigger budget, $4000 to $5000 will be enough to buy one of the best models that the drone industry has to offer. Aside from spare parts and replaceable accessories, buying a drone is typically a one-time expense. This can result in huge savings for companies that regularly require air support.
There’s also the matter of clearance. Unless you’re in a spot of restricted or controlled airspace, then there is no need to secure any authorization to fly a drone. And even if you were in controlled airspace because of a nearby airport, asking for authorization from the FAA is a process that can be done in a few minutes. This added flexibility has gone a long way in making drones fairly reliable air support tools.
*CON: Drones can cause damage to property and injury to people*
The small and lightweight design of drones, plus the fact that they are unmanned, has helped in making them a lot less regulated than manned aircraft. However, this does not mean that they do not pose any dangers.
Drones crash all the time due to a host of reasons – loss of signal from the controller, dead batteries, bird attacks, or even a sudden change in wind direction can easily cause a drone to plummet to the ground. There’s also the possibility of drones crashing into manned aircraft. Thankfully, this has not happened a lot but “close calls” are reported almost daily.
In 2014, a reporter of the Brooklyn Paper got injured by a drone that was being used by TGI Friday’s as part of their “Mobile Mistletoe” program. The idea was for the drone to carry a mistletoe, under which couples can share a kiss to celebrate the holidays. However, one drone flew too close to the reporter and clipped his nose, causing profuse bleeding.
In a rather ironic incident, a drone pilot doing a drone safety demonstration in FOX & Friends ended up losing control of the drone and crashing it a nearby wall. Thankfully, the propeller guards on the drone kept it from causing any serious damage. However, the damage to the reputation of the drones had already been done.
During the 2015 annual Gay Pride parade in Seattle, a DJI Phantom 3 suddenly crashed just as it was flying over a crowd of people. This resulted in a woman suffering a cut to her forehead which needed treatment at a hospital. Another man who was hit by a drone suffered a small bump in his head. This story did not end up as well as the others, as the drone pilot – a professional one – was charged with reckless endangerment and was sentenced with a year in jail and a $5000 fine.
There is no shortage of stories that prove that drones can be dangerous. For this reason, effective drone regulation and training is essential in encouraging the social acceptance of drones.

Please enjoy,
Hank








* 



*


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)




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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Drones are a totally brilliant way for the Chinese to gather photographic intelligence over dumbass places like America.









They are equipped with GPS-based "geofencing", which makes them aware of and, er, "keeps them *out* of sensitive areas".

They also can do OTA updates, which wipes the software of any nefarious code.

Genius vs dumbasses.


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

DJI is great. My last company spent $15,000 on a DJI drone. They stopped doing updates after I left and the Chinese software locked it down and they couldn't ever fly it again. Really cool looking paperweight though!

Hank, are you just copy-pasting these articles without any citation aka plagiarizing?


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Electric Land Cruiser said:


> DJI is great. My last company spent $15,000 on a DJI drone. They stopped doing updates after I left and the Chinese software locked it down and they couldn't ever fly it again. Really cool looking paperweight though!
> 
> Hank, are you just copy-pasting these articles without any citation aka plagiarizing?


Sorry about that I will put in the disclaimers on the next post. Would you like to mention in this thread on how your business used Drones and the reason you were locked out. SOUNDS like the story would be right for my story content this thread .
Thank you, Hank


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> Sorry about that I will put in the disclaimers on the next post. Would you like to mention in this thread on how your business used Drones and the reason you were locked out. SOUNDS like the story would be right for my story content this thread .
> Thank you, Hank


Even better, list the source and put everything in a "QUOTE" block - in bulletin board quote, there are start ("QUOTE") and end ("/QUOTE") commands around the quoted text, and all commands start with "[" and end with "]".

```
[QUOTE]
This is text copied from another source
[/QUOTE]
```
You can even include the credit in the quote command:

```
[QUOTE="Hamlet, by William Shakespeare"]
To be or not to be, that is the question.
[/QUOTE]
```
... which ends up looking like this:


William Shakespeare said:


> To be or not to be, that is the question.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

🤓


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

DRONES Part II:
*PRO: Drones can fly to areas that would have been difficult or impossible to access*
The ability of drones to fly into areas that would have been inaccessible by foot, land vehicles, or even larger aircraft has proven useful time and again. This is especially important in the field of emergency response where every second counts and the speed of response can make the difference between life or death.
Law enforcement agencies around the world are some of the more prolific users of drone technology. They have used drones to speed up search and rescue operations, even going as far as using thermal imaging to identify humans in darkness or in conditions with poor visibility.
They have also been used to aid in responding to actual crimes. By providing live surveillance, police officers can gain a tactical advantage in any situation.
In some search and rescue operations, particularly in the wilderness, immediate rescue may not be possible. For such cases, drones can be used to deliver food and essential supplies so that the stranded parties can survive as they wait for rescue.
Firefighters have also used drone technology for similar objectives. By flying a drone over a site of an active fire, firefighters can be more strategic in how they approach the situation. They can also determine the safest routes or identify any small embers that would have been difficult to spot.
All these examples demonstrate that drones are the perfect complement for many services geared towards public safety. This somewhat balances out the safety concerns over drones, although the mileage of negative media is still hard to beat.

With the commercial value of drone services, many people have gone the route of being professional drone pilots. For those with the skills, this is a move that makes sense. According to an estimate made by Goldman Sachs in 2019, the commercial drone industry is on pace to reach a value of $13 billion by the end of 2020.ws is to maintain the safety of the national airspace without hampering the growth of the commercial drone industry.
The Part 107 law was a big deal when it first came along. It was the first law that truly legitimized the use of drones for commercial applications and established clear drone flight restrictions. It also created the remote pilot certificate, or drone license – a piece of paper that a drone pilot must secure to become licensed under Part 107.
In terms of both technology and legislation, the field of drones is still very immature. Thus, there are still a lot of growing pains that continue to this day. It wasn’t so long ago when a community of recreational drone pilots questioned the authority of the FAA to require the registration of drones used for recreation. The win that the pilots got at the time was eventually overturned when the FAA Reauthorization Act came into law, stating in no unclear terms the standards for drone registration, whether for recreational or professional use.
Right now, the FAA is undergoing a review of the proposed Remote ID system that seeks to make all drones identifiable via radio frequency or online. This has
*CON: Drones present privacy issues*
Privacy is perhaps the most controversial matter when it comes to malicious drone use. With drone technology originating from drones used for espionage, it’s no secret that modern drones can also be used to intrude on the privacy of people. Perhaps, modern drones are even better because they are smaller and have better cameras.
According to a survey done by the Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, most civilians were wary of drones flying near or above them regardless of who was piloting them, including police officers, professional drone pilots, and hobbyists. They also vehemently opposed the idea of drones flying near them 24/7.
These fears are not without basis. To date, there have probably been several hundred documented cases of privacy violations using drones. In 2018, a family having a peaceful stroll along a beach in Adele Island in New Zealand found themselves being recorded by a drone without authorization. In 2016, a man in Orem, Utah was found in possession of a drone that contained photos and videos of several people shot from the windows of their apartments. He pleaded no contest to a charge of voyeurism.
Fortunately, most drone operators are not using drones for surveillance.


{"this excerpt from: *By Pilot Institute*
Posted on August 26, 2020"}























*COA vs PART 107 | FLYING DRONES | Police, Fire, and Public Agencies*

*



*


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)




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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

[/QUOTE]
You could not respond professionally if your life depended on it could you!!, do people other than you enjoy your sick not so funny pranks.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yes

The material you have been posting is beneath most of the people here.

Nothing new & zero technical content. 

He's trying to send you that message, but you're not thinking at a high enough level to get the correct message he's sending you.

Tell us how the machine works, post the source code and circuit diagrams. Or at least post something that provokes someone into wanting to build one.

Any dummy can put down a credit card for these toys.

"DIY"


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Anyone who is seriously interested in battery-electric aviation from a DIY perspective should be interested in the work of SAE Committee AE-7 _Aerospace Electrical Power and Equipment_. Pipistrel is a participant in this committee, and is following the resulting recommendations, including using the GB/T connector which has apparently been selected by SAE for charging... that's the DC-only connector used for EVs in China. It is deliberately incompatible with existing charging stations in North America and Europe, although I don't know why the risk of connecting to a non-compliant charger isn't a concern in China, too.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

In my opinion, CCS is perfectly adequate for GA and has EVSE's and DCFC stations produced in volume. You're lucky to have a power outlet for a 12V battery charger in a GA T-hangar, let alone an industrial 3 phase connection that is likely needed by the standard you mentioned.

As far as most aircraft are concerned, I'd think a megawatt charging connector is needed, as in big trucks. Chinesium car connector in that case would be completely useless.

That's one area where the Chinese excel and US government agencies epically fail - infrastructure standardization.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> In my opinion, CCS is perfectly adequate for GA and has EVSE's and DCFC stations produced in volume. You're lucky to have a power outlet for a 12V battery charger in a GA T-hangar, let alone an industrial 3 phase connection that is likely needed by the standard you mentioned.
> 
> As far as most aircraft are concerned, I'd think a megawatt charging connector is needed, as in big trucks. Chinesium car connector in that case would be completely useless.
> 
> That's one area where the Chinese excel and US government agencies epically fail - infrastructure standardization.


What voltages do you think would be good ?


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Good evening Everyone,
It is especially nice of all of you to be discussing the various parts and pieces of electrical aircraft tonight. I like it that you mentioned the Pipistrel company in your article listed above. The Pipistrel new Alpha Electro I featured a few days ago I believe fits in with what you were all talking about. When i first saw the Alpha Electro it reminded me of an electric version of what I trained in some time ago, the 1966 Cessna 150, this is the airplane I received my first solo in, my private pilots certificate and a lot of my Commercial ticket in between the years of 1966-1968. Please see comparison photos below..
Also, I agree with all of you about the standards of charging cords and plugs, voltages and the likes. Why can't governments of different countries MAN-UP, and come up with something that all countries could use. Especially with aircraft now a days thought are bought and sold and used in so many countries around the globe. Kind of like keep the politics out of this and just work to get along. Have a good night.
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

DRONES: Part III

*PRO: Drones can be useful tools for businesses and organizations*
By now, we already know how valuable drones can be in businesses. Shots taken by drones can help real estate agents gain traction for the properties they are selling. Drones can be used to do a rapid inspection of construction sites, power lines, or large-scale industrial equipment. They can be used for aerial mapping of topography, or for preparation in building a road or digging a mine.
In the next years, it won’t be surprising to see a fleet of drones used for the delivery of parcels. More enterprising individuals have even started studying the possibility of drones being used to aid in the actual laying down of construction jobs for construction.
Drones are inexpensive, quick to deploy, can work rapidly, and can collect accurate data. The new crop of drones has been designed to build on these strengths. They are getting smaller and have better cameras. They avoid obstacles automatically, can be programmed to do customized jobs, and have RTK sensors that can collect location-based data to centimeter-level accuracy.
With the commercial value of drone services, many people have gone the route of being professional drone pilots. For those with the skills, this is a move that makes sense. According to an estimate made by Goldman Sachs in 2019, the commercial drone industry is on pace to reach a value of $13 billion by the end of 2020.
*CON: Legislation on drone flight is uncertain and continues to change*
Recognizing the increasing number of drones being bought and used in the US, the FAA established 14 CRF Part 107 back in 2016. The Part 107 rules provide the legal framework for all commercial drone services. The goal of these laws is to maintain the safety of the national airspace without hampering the growth of the commercial drone industry.
The Part 107 law was a big deal when it first came along. It was the first law that truly legitimized the use of drones for commercial applications and established clear drone flight restrictions. It also created the remote pilot certificate, or drone license – a piece of paper that a drone pilot must secure to become licensed under Part 107.
In terms of both technology and legislation, the field used for recreation. The win that the pilots got at the time was eventually overturned when the FAA Reauthorization Act came into law, stating in no unclear terms the standards for drone registration, whether for recreational or professional use.
Right now, the FAA is undergoing a review of the proposed Remote ID system that seeks to make all drones identifiable via radio frequency or online. This has been met with a lot of resistance but is the first time that the FAA has made any headway into addressing drone-related privacy issues.
As any entrepreneur can tell you, it’s tough to do business in an environment with lots of uncertainty. Drone regulations continue to change year in and year out. As demonstrated in the Remote ID proposal, these changes can alter the economics of running a business based on a commercial drone service.

*PRO: A thriving drone market has paved the way for diverse drone applications*
One thing that we’ve always been excited about is how drones have continued to grow and evolve in the last couple of years. From drones with simple cameras, we now have drones equipped with LiDAR sensors, RTK modules, multispectral sensors, thermal cameras, speakers, and spotlights.
On the more exotic side of things, some drones can be used for active firefighting by having a spray nozzle which is supplied by a tethered connection to a water source. Similar to this concept is a drone that can be used for crop spraying, although this comes with a 10-kilogram reservoir instead.
This doesn’t even mention how modern drones have obstacle avoidance sensors so advanced that they can create a 3D model of their surroundings. A lot of recently launched models also have smart subject tracking features that are designed to predict the movement trajectory of a subject, even when it moves out of sight of the drone’s camera.
Diversification has also happened in the market for third-party drone accessories. Drone parachutes have made it safer (and legal) for drones to fly over crowds. Small GPS trackers help drone pilots track their drones, even if they get into a crash. Strobe and orientation lights are essential accessories when flying a drone at night.
With drones getting smarter and more powerful, it is only reasonable to expect that more and more industries, companies, and individuals will find some way to make drones valuable to their needs.

*{"By Pilot Institute*
 Posted on August 26, 2020"}


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

cricketo said:


> What voltages do you think would be good ?


Hard to say. If you assume a 40,000ft service ceiling, higher is not better.

If you can cool it (another high altitude problem), an electric is not limited like a naturally aspirated bird for ceiling.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

altitude,mostly not limited. At some point the speed of sound becomes so low that anything using a prop is so inefficient as to be useless since tip speed is a function of rpm and forward velocity. It's already compromised by lesser density. Ever notice helicopters have a service ceiling under 40,000 ft?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> Also, I agree with all of you about the standards of charging cords and plugs, voltages and the likes. Why can't governments of different countries MAN-UP, and come up with something that all countries could use. Especially with aircraft now a days thought are bought and sold and used in so many countries around the globe. Kind of like keep the politics out of this and just work to get along...


While a single standard across the world would be nice, it's not important. There are many regulatory differences between automotive markets and yet auto manufacturers still manage to supply vehicles - often the same model - to different markets by providing locally appropriate variations. Since almost no one drives the same car on two or more continents different charging connectors really don't matter, and the same will be true of light aircraft. Long-haul commercial aircraft will need a more consistent solution, although even that may just be suitable adapters.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

piotrsko said:


> altitude,mostly not limited. At some point the speed of sound becomes so low that anything using a prop is so inefficient as to be useless since tip speed is a function of rpm and forward velocity. It's already compromised by lesser density. Ever notice helicopters have a service ceiling under 40,000 ft?


They wheeze pretty badly at 10,000ft...it's clawing at air molecules to hover here:






Wow, that happened here 20 years ago...seems like 5 years 😬


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

piotrsko said:


> Ever notice helicopters have a service ceiling under 40,000 ft?


Typically it's under 25,000 feet, and maximum hover altitude is more typically 10,000 ft. Yes, thin air is a challenge.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*





























Drones : Part IV
CON: The sophisticated drone technologies remain very expensive*
​*



*As with any technology that pushes the boundary of what’s possible, many of these advanced drones remain firmly beyond the budget of most people or organizations. One of the more egregious examples of this is the DJI Agras MG-1 crop-spraying drone which costs around $15,000. At that price range, it’s not a drone that many farmers would even consider buying.
The same can be said of particularly uncommon drones and accessories such as thermal cameras, LiDAR sensors, and RTK modules partnered with ground stations. A drone setup with these components can easily cost anywhere between $5000 to $10,000. Buying advanced equipment can provide a competitive edge, but these are certainly too expensive for a drone pilot who’s still early in their career.
As the commercial drone industry becomes more competitive, it becomes apparent that a drone pilot needs to have a somewhat expensive drone to even be noticed by clients. Add to that the costs of Part 107 certification and training and you’re really going to need significant investment to even get started in a professional drone career.
*Final thoughts*
At this point, most people probably acknowledge that drones are here to stay. With more and more of them being used for commercial reasons or for fun, there’s no question that they will continue to be a significant part of the industrial landscape and personal recreation. From simple fun to advanced data collection, modern drones run an expansive gamut of possible uses.
However, it also only takes a cursory look at drone-related news to conclude that the technology isn’t perfect. The same characteristics that make drones attractive also make them agents for violating the privacy of citizens or posing threats to safety and security. So far, legislation has not caught up with all these issues, further souring the reputation of drones.
Running a drone business also isn’t easy in the face of drone-related laws that seem to evolve every year. This process of evolution probably won’t stop soon, especially as public concerns grow and drone technology continues to evolve.







​*{"By Pilot Institute*
Posted on August 26, 2020"}


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

cricketo said:


> There is one of those Zero-based E-Gulls at the Twin Oaks airpark (West of Beaverton) btw. I think it belongs to somebody from experimental aviation org or something like that.


 It looks kind of cool, it's a single seat electric ultralight 55 hp with a electric motor cycle engine from a company in caifornia. They make electric motorcycles, so now they stick them in aircraft. I found some videos, I will attach one later today so all can see. Thanks for letting me know.
Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

hankweirauch said:


> It looks kind of cool, it's a single seat electric ultralight 55 hp with a electric motor cycle engine from a company in caifornia. They make electric motorcycles, so now they stick them in aircraft. I found some videos, I will attach one later today so all can see. Thanks for letting me know.
> Hank


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Update from Eviation Today, Makers of Alice Electric 9 place aircraft:
A Seattle-area venture called Eviation has struck a deal with Massachusetts-based Cape Air for the purchase of 75 Eviation Alice all-electric planes.
The letter of intent follows up on a claim that was made back in 2019 by Eviation’s then-CEO, Omer Bar-Yohay, who said Cape Air would be his company’s first customer. At the time, Bar-Yohay said the list price for the Alice commuter aircraft would be $4 million per plane — but Eviation said it’s not releasing financial details about the Cape Air deal.
Bar-Yohay left Eviation in February, citing “a longstanding disagreement” with the company’s main shareholder, Singapore-based Clermont Group. Longtime aerospace executive Gregory Davis took over as interim CEO for the privately held company, which is headquartered in Arlington, Wash.
Eviation has begun ground tests of an Alice prototype, and those tests haven’t always gone perfectly — which is to be expected with a totally new type of aircraft. In February, Eviation said Alice’s first flight test would take place “in the upcoming weeks,” but the company now says it plans to reach that milestone this summer.
Alice will be powered by two 850-hp electric motors made by MagniX, a Clermont Group company that’s based in Everett, Wash., close by Eviation’s HQ. It’s designed to carry up to nine passengers and two crew members on zero-emission flights ranging as far as 440 nautical miles (500 statute miles) on a single charge.
If all goes according to plan, Eviation aims to have the production version of the Alice aircraft flying in 2024, with deliveries to follow certification activities.
As a commuter airline, Cape Air is in the sweet spot when it comes to the market for Alice. Although the company is based in Massachusetts, it serves nearly 40 cities in the U.S. (including cities in eastern Montana) and in the Caribbean.
“Truly sustainable aviation not only reduces the impact of air travel on the environment but also makes business sense,” Jessica Pruss, vice president of sales at Eviation, said in a news release. “We are proud to support Cape Air, a recognized leader in regional air travel, to chart a new path in delivering innovative solutions that benefit airline operators, passengers, communities and society.”
Eviation also envisions Alice being used for cargo shipments and for executive business travel. Last year, DHL Express said it was ordering a dozen Alice eCargo airplanes.
Several other ventures are pursuing approaches to electric aviation. MagniX, for example, plans to retrofit seaplanes operated by Vancouver, B.C.-based Harbour Air and is working with other partners as well. Last year, MagniX won a $74.3 million contract from NASA to demonstrate electric propulsion technologies for aircraft.
Meanwhile, Amazon and Alaska Air are investing in ZeroAvia, a venture that’s developing a hydrogen-electric hybrid airplane and is setting up a research and development facility in Everett. Amazon’s Climate Pledge Fund has also provided funding for another electric aviation startup called Beta Technologies.
_Eviation is among the finalists in the 2022 GeekWire Awards’ Innovation of the Year category. Head over to the GeekWire Awards website to check out all the finalists, vote for your favorites, and reserve your spot for the May 12 awards ceremony at the Showbox SoDo in Seattle._










{" *Alan Boyle* is an award-winning science writer and space reporter and Geekwire contributing editor. "}


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The E-Gull makes sense in the same way that many recent DIY car conversions do - use an available powertrain to convert a vehicle - but it also illustrates an issue with using components in a way which is not intended. Aircraft propellers run over a relatively narrow speed range which is a suitable operating speed for an electric motor, so electric powertrains designed for aircraft usually direct-drive the prop(s); in cars and motorcycles the wheel speed is too low to make sense for a motor so all production EVs include reduction gearing of some sort. Mixing the two worlds means that this aircraft has an unnecessary propeller speed reduction unit (PSRU); that's acceptable when it makes the overall powertrain package lighter or more efficient, but in this case it's just more expense and an added failure point.

Both the motor power and the battery energy capacity of the motorcycle seem well sized to suit the ultralight aircraft - it's primarily the gearing which is mismatched.

The guy who appears in the video from AirVenture patented a radial 2-stroke engine which he called "RadCam' a couple of decades ago - that was built (at least in prototypes) but apparently didn't work out and he seems happy with the electric option now. The engine patent expires this year.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

brian_ said:


> The E-Gull makes sense in the same way that many recent DIY car conversions do - use an available powertrain to convert a vehicle - but it also illustrates an issue with using components in a way which is not intended. Aircraft propellers run over a relatively narrow speed range which is a suitable operating speed for an electric motor, so electric powertrains designed for aircraft usually direct-drive the prop(s); in cars and motorcycles the wheel speed is too low to make sense so all production EVs include reduction gearing of some sort. Mixing the two worlds means that this aircraft has an unnecessary propeller speed reduction unit (PSRU); that's acceptable when it makes the overall powertrain package lighter or more efficient, but in this case it's just more expense and an added failure point.


How does that apply to Zero given there is no gearbox ?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

An article about the eGull included this information about power consumption:


'Batteries Included' in Kitplanes by Dean Sigler said:


> During his symposium talk, Gabriel presented a thorough review of the eGull’s performance and features. He said that cruising at 55 knots (63 mph) it consumed about 8 to 9 kW (10.72 to 12 h.p.). This is borne out by two friends who report similar performance with their eGulls (see sidebar below).


This is in a 250 kg (550 lb) plus pilot aircraft; a typical Light Sport Aircraft weighs twice as much and would require about twice the power. That's enough to power whole motorcycle (or whole car if doubled to match the LSA) weighing far more, at the same speed. The problem of endurance versus battery weight quickly becomes apparent.

Gabriel DeVault built a larger electric aircraft with the Zero motorcycle powertrain, called the eXenos. Electrical data logged during flights of this aircraft are included in the article; the eXenos is much larger but aerodynamically superior, so it has a similar power requirement for a similar speed, compared to the eGull.

He also provides a quote which should be carved into the brain of the many people who really don't understand the meaning and importance of "torque":


Gabriel DeVault said:


> Torque of electric motors is frequently misunderstood. Power is power—you just have to gear the output to get the torque at the rpm you want.”


That article also has a photo showing the lighter and simpler belt drive which Mark explained in the YouTube video would be replacing the Rotax gearbox in the eGull.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

cricketo said:


> How does that apply to Zero given there is no gearbox ?


The Zero, like any conventional motorcycle, has a drive from the motor to the rear wheel, so the wheel does not turn at motor speed. Traditionally in motorcycles that's done by a chain or shaft, although toothed belts like the Zero are also common - all of them are reduction drives. Of course there's normally a multi-speed transmission as well, between the engine and the final chain/shaft/belt drive, and the Zero doesn't have that. Whether it's a chain between differently sized sprockets, or bevel gears on the end of a shaft, or a belt between differently sized gears, or a gearbox, there's a reduction drive to adapt motor speed to wheel speed.

The eGull's current belt drive is a very direct equivalent to the belt drive of the Zero motorcycle. There's no equivalent speed reduction device in direct-drive aircraft, including the Pipistrel design (which does use a reduction gearbox in the version with a Rotax engine).


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

brian_ said:


> The eGull's current belt drive is a very direct equivalent to the belt drive of the Zero motorcycle. There's no equivalent speed reduction device in direct-drive aircraft, including the Pipistrel design (which does use a reduction gearbox in the version with a Rotax engine).


I am confused by your previous post. If the prop needs to go at some 5000RPM, Zero motor can do that without reduction. If the prop needs to go at fewer RPMs, then reduction can be achieved the same way it's achieved for the original motorcycle. So than why wouldn't a Zero drivetrain be a good fit for an airplane ?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

cricketo said:


> If the prop needs to go at some 5000RPM, Zero motor can do that without reduction.


Props run much more slowly than that... thus the reduction; if 5,000 RPM was suitable for the prop, then many EV motors would be suitable in a direct-drive configuration. The eGull has an abnormally large prop (especially for the size of the aircraft), with a corresponding low operating speed (under 2,000 RPM) so reduction is required. Even the eXenos, which uses a smaller prop and higher prop speed, still needs 2:1 reduction for the Zero motor to perform well (and not overheat in cruise).



cricketo said:


> If the prop needs to go at fewer RPMs, then reduction can be achieved the same way it's achieved for the original motorcycle. So than why wouldn't a Zero drivetrain be a good fit for an airplane ?


It is a good fit in some ways; my only reservation is the need for that reduction drive. Yes, the belt is just like the motorcycle's belt (and shorter, which is a bonus), but a motor designed for the purpose wouldn't need a reduction drive at all. A motor specifically designed to direct-drive a prop would have a suitable shaft and bearings so the prop would mount directly on the motor shaft, eliminating separate motor and propeller shafts and bearings - that won't be found in any road vehicle, unless it is an in-wheel motor intended to have a wheel mounted on it directly.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I used to cruise at 2500 prop RPM, so, no..a 5000 RPM motor or higher sucks for GA applications, which is why you usually find a reduction drive to the prop on GA. Some people have tried axial flux, but they have large frontal areas and I don't know of anyone who went beyond a prototype.

An ultralight swinging a half diameter propeller can conceivably spin at double rpm without generating shock waves at the tips, but the prop disk is not moving a lot of air mass due to square law physics.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

brian_ said:


> It is a good fit in some ways; my only reservation is the need for that reduction drive. Yes, the belt is just like the motorcycle's belt (and shorter, which is a bonus), but a motor designed for the purpose wouldn't need a reduction drive at all. A motor specifically designed to direct-drive a prop would have a suitable shaft and bearings so the prop would mount directly on the motor shaft, eliminating separate motor and propeller shafts and bearings - that won't be found in any road vehicle, unless it is an in-wheel motor intended to have a wheel mounted on it directly.


That's fair. Is there a motor design that would be more suitable ? Say half the RPMs, double the torque, same power ? Zero I think is a PMAC. Earlier models used Motenergy motors I believe, no idea who makes their current ones.


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*'BACK TO THE FUTURE' YES, THIS TIME FOR REAL COMING SOON 2024 ELECTRIC DELOREAN





















*

*DeLorean — yes, that DeLorean — says its electric car will hit streets in 2024*
June 1, 2022 at 4:41 pm Updated June 1, 2022 at 8:46 pm

*1 of 2 | *The DeLorean Alpha5 electric vehicle will be available in 2024, according to the company. (Courtesy of DeLorean Motor)
{“By
Hannah Elliott”}
_Bloomberg_


A new electric DeLorean will arrive in 2024, says the latest iteration of the DeLorean Motor.
This is the brand John DeLorean founded in 1975, which went bankrupt by 1982. The collapse was caused by mismanagement, complaints about poor fabrication and lackluster performance — and that its founder was charged with conspiring to smuggle $24 million worth of cocaine into the United States. He was acquitted.
Now rebranded as DeLorean Motors Reimagined after years of wallowing as a niche steel-car automaker in Texas, DeLorean says it’s making a modern electric coupe, the Alpha5.
The effort is led by Joost de Vries, who joined the company in 2021. He was previously vice president of sales at Karma Automotive, the beleaguered Chinese-owned entity that purchased assets of the also-defunct Fisker Automotive in 2014. During his tenure, Karma faced major sales challenges and financial troubles because of its inability to manufacturer quality cars. De Vries also worked as vice president of global service at Tesla.
But the DeLorean Alpha5 won’t have hyper car speed.
The renderings for the latest version of the almost 40-year-old marquee show a modern gull wing coupe that looks less wedge like than the original that gained international fame when it was featured in the 1985 film, “Back to the Future.” Softly rounded in an arch from front to back, it has thin white headlights and a long red band of light that makes up the taillights. Images on the company’s website indicate it has an active rear spoiler and seating for four.
It will be able to hit 60 mph in 2.9 seconds and have a top speed of 155 mph, according to the company, numbers that approximate the Lucid Air family sedan but lack the blinding speed of a Rimac Nevera, which can do 0-60mph in 1.8 seconds. The Tesla Model S Plaid edition can do the 0-60 mph sprint in 1.9 seconds.
​ Then again, the DeLorean cars the company was making after a British-born mechanic named Stephen Wynne purchased the logo and existing inventory from John DeLorean in 1995 were far from quick. Identical to those in the movie, underpowered and lacking even rudimentary modern comforts, Wynne’s DeLoreans, made in Texas, lacked power steering and automatic transmission; the placement of the shifter, clutch, and other pedals were so tight they crammed all but the daintiest feet.
John DeLorean’s original version of the DeLorean was even more archaic. When it launched in 1981, the car had a 130-horsepower 2.8-liter V6 Peugeot-Renault-Volvo engine in the rear of a Lotus frame. Available with manual or automatic transmission, it went to 60 mph in 10.5 seconds and got just 18 mpg. Fewer than 9,000 of them were made at DeLorean’s facility in Northern Ireland. Prices started at $25,000.
DeLorean is registering interest in the Alpha5 on its website, which it first hinted at in a Super Bowl commercial in February. It is unclear if the company is also taking deposits.






















{“By
Hannah Elliott”
Bloomberg}
*



*


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

cricketo said:


> Is there a motor design that would be more suitable ? Say half the RPMs, double the torque, same power ? Zero I think is a PMAC.


It's a unusual application, so a good direct fit is unlikely. Pipistrel uses EMRAX motors, with modification, but those were intended from the beginning to direct-drive small aircraft propellers - they even have bearings intended to handle propeller thrust. There are various other motors designed for electric aircraft which are suitable. There are probably others that are workable (adequate power at low speed, and not excessively heavy) although not at their ideal speed behind a prop so far from peak power; at the weight of Light Sport Aircraft or that even-lighter Gull, car-sized motors are going to be excessively heavy (which is why the motorcycle source is appropriate, aside from the operating speed).

They'll all be permanent magnet AC. The EMRAX is axial-flux, as is YASA, but most are radial-flux; the motors recently made by both Siemens and MagniX are radial. The appearance can be deceptive: radial-flux motors are usually longer than their diameter, while axial-flux are more "pancake" like (much shorter axially than in diameter), but when a motor is designed to run slowly with relatively high torque for its size, and cooled air axial airflow, it is usually large in diameter for the length. 

The high frontal area of a short motor can be okay if that area is needed for airflow anyway, it is no problem at all if the motor is stuck on the nose of a fuselage (as in a single-engine conversion, in which the short length is also advantageous), and the whole package has more more reasonable proportions if the inverters (there can be two per motor for redundancy) are packaged behind the motor. At a much larger scale than a light sport aircraft, MagniX stacks two motor cores then four inverters along the horizontal axis for their 650 kW configuration, all roughly within the frontal area of a conventional prop hub spinner.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hankweirauch said:


> ...
> *DeLorean — yes, that DeLorean — says its electric car will hit streets in 2024*


Yes, and there's a thread about that: 
The new Delorean EV's kinda cute

The only thing "Aviation, Drones, and Flying Cars next 50 years." about this proposed car is that an unrelated car of the same company name was used as a movie prop decades ago - why is it in this thread?


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

*BLACK FLY





*


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

* 
HEART AEROSPACE BACK TO THE NEAR “FUTURE”

Heart Aerospace ES-19*

{







}


During 2021, Sweden-based Heart Aerospace made significant progress in its plans to bring the 19-seat ES-19 electric regional airliner to market in 2026. The company logged provisional sales commitments from airlines including Finnair and United, with the latter having invested in the venture.

Heart's engineering team has conducted testing with a ground-based prototype of the complete electric propulsion system. The program plan calls for a full-scale prototype, which will be quite close to the series production design, to start flight tests in mid-2024. The aircraft will be certified under EASA's CS23 standards. The manufacturer is in the early stages of applying for design organization approval.













ES-19 Electric Engine test stand

Heart has developed its propulsion system in-house and is using automotive industry batteries as its power source. MT Propeller is providing the ES-19’s seven-blade propellers. The company is in talks with several aerospace groups with a view to source cockpit systems and flight controls.

The company believes its conventional fixed-wing aircraft with aluminum fuselage will be relatively straightforward to certificate. With zero emissions, it is expected to deliver 75 percent lower energy costs than conventionally-fueled aircraft, as well as 50 percent lower maintenance costs and 50 percent lower noise. These comparisons are based on current turboprop airliners such as the Dash 8, compared on a per-passenger basis and operating from a 2,460-foot runway.

Spain's Aernnova will jointly design the aircraft and has deployed an engineering team to work on design for the wing, fuselage, and empennage of the ES-19. The aircraft will feature an aluminum airframe with retractable landing gear, a high wing, a T-shaped empennage and a non-cylindrical fuselage that Heart says will maximize space in the cabin.

According to Heart, the initial production versions of the ES-19 will have a range of just under 250 miles. Last year, the company demonstrated the first version of its proposed electric propulsion system, which incorporates a 400-kW electric motor, lithium-ion batteries, and a motor controller.

*Heart Unveils Electric Propulsion System for ES-19 Airliner*

{“by Charles Alcock}

- September 23, 2020, 10:35 AM”}


Heart Aerospace on Wednesday unveiled the electric propulsion system that will power the ES-19 regional airliner it claims will be ready to enter commercial service in the summer of 2026. The Swedish company, which is backed by EQT Ventures, also announced that it has secured €2.5 million ($2.9 million) in financial support from the European Innovation Council Green Deal Accelerator Program.





 Engine Test Electric Motor

The 19-seat ES-19 features four propellers powered by electric motors. The preliminary design for the aluminum-fuselage, fixed-wing model shows winglets and a T-shaped tail and somewhat resembles a smaller version of the De Havilland Canada Dash 7.

According to Heart Aerospace, which is headquartered at Gothenburg’s Save Airport, the all-electric aircraft will be able to fly up to around 400 km (217 nm) and operate from runways as short as 750 meters (2,461 feet). It is expected to have a top speed of 215 knots and a cruise speed of 180 knots. The company maintains that these low speeds will not be a disadvantage on short sectors, especially because the aircraft will be able to operate from smaller, less crowded airfields that will shorten door-to-door journey times.

The company was formed in 2018, initially as part of the Electric Air Travel in Sweden (ELISE) project, and funded by the country’s Vinnova innovation agency along with several other undisclosed backers. Its engineering team includes veterans of almost 70 aircraft programs, including the Bombardier C-Series, HondaJet, and Zunum Aero’s electric aircraft.

Testing has already begun with a ground-based prototype of the complete propulsion system, and a 20 percent scale model of the aircraft is due to start flight tests before the end of 2020. The program plan calls for a full-scale prototype, which will be quite close to the series production design, to start flight tests in mid-2024.

The aircraft will be certified under EASA's CS23 standards. The manufacturer is in the early stages of applying for design organization approval.

Heart has developed its propulsion system in-house and is using automotive industry batteries as its power source. MT Propeller is providing the ES-19’s seven-blade propellers. The company is in talks with several aerospace groups with a view to source cockpit systems and flight controls.

The company claims that eight airlines from across Europe, North America, and Asia have signed letters of intent to purchase a total of 147 examples of the ES-19. These include SAS, Breadthens and Wide roe in Scandinavia; Air Greenland; New Zealand’s Sounds Air; Pascan in Quebec; Quantum Air in California; and UK startup City Clipper.

Heart has not published a base price for the aircraft but at the stated €1.1 billion ($1.3 billion) combined value of the letters of intent this would suggest a unit price of almost $8.8 million. The company believes the cost could fall further as production costs for the propulsion system are reduced when volumes are scaled up.

As electric propulsion technology improves, Heart has ambitions to extend the range of the ES-19 or subsequent models to around 2,000 km/1,080 nm. According to the company, this range would cover as many as 85 percent of airline departures worldwide and 43 percent of current carbon dioxide emissions from aviation.

The European Innovation Council Green Deal Accelerator Program is backed by the European Commission and the European Development Bank. Under the proposed European Green Deal, the European Commission is seeking to reduce all greenhouse gas emissions by at least 50 percent by 2030.

Initially, Heart is targeting the anticipated early adoption of electric aircraft in Scandinavia. In its native Sweden, the government has committed to making all domestic flights fossil-fuel-free by 2030, while neighboring Norway has a goal of all domestic flights being electric-powered by 2040.

According to Heart Aerospace CEO and founder Anders Fordland, the Covid-19 pandemic has increased pressure on the air transport industry to reshape its approach to environmental and financial sustainability. He pointed to the fact that in Europe some government aid for struggling airlines has come with requirements that it be matched by more ambitious targets for reducing the sector’s carbon emissions.

In the face of declining demand for air travel prompted by Corvid and the so-called "flight shaming" trend for consumers to fly less frequently, Fordland commented, “This is a reset moment, as across the board the provision of public finance comes with the caveat that bailouts will only be offered in exchange for cutting emissions, and electric aircraft could be the most cost-effective and sustainable way to travel.”






























 Heart Aerospace Hangar Day


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## hankweirauch (8 mo ago)

Thank all of you for your participation in this thread this past month on this DIYELECTRICCAR Forum, this is my final Listing on this subject. I picked this topic as an eye-opener to where this world is going the next fifty years. The people " ALL of you" that peruse this forum are the people who will be actually making all this new technology either sink or swim. If you want to drop this thread or continue it is totally up to you. I have given many examples to all of you what is coming in the FUTURE, I will now stop and let this expire. Thank you again for your input. Please enjoy life and have a good life.
thank you,
Hank W.😀

*




"Pentatonics"
"Beatles" "John Lennon"*


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Hank if you are free in August come to State of Charge 2022: www.soc22.com


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