# Best DC series controller for the buck ?



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

48v is far too low!
Look for at least 120v

Cheapest is the Paul & Sabrina - OpenRevolt


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

Duncan said:


> 48v is far too low!
> Look for at least 120v
> 
> Cheapest is the Paul & Sabrina - OpenRevolt



well i need 48v max is why my engine is 24v to 36v i need maybe a curtis 1205M-5601 500ah

i see in the page of Paul & Sabrina and the controllers are 600 bucks !
i see a curtis 1205M-5601 in aliexpres under 400 $

what is your opinion in this controller ?
http://es.aliexpress.com/store/prod..._1&btsid=d177629c-8067-445e-a155-8fe399ef6273


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Sata; Am running my 48v motor at 84v with an AXE7230 . You won't get much acceleration at 48v and (subject to expert advice) your 48v motor will most likely run up to 120v DC. But if you are only running in a city environment with short runs then 48v will do to keep up with traffic and golf carts. External fan cooling might be needed also.


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

poprock said:


> Hi Sata; Am running my 48v motor at 84v with an AXE7230 . You won't get much acceleration at 48v and (subject to expert advice) your 48v motor will most likely run up to 120v DC. But if you are only running in a city environment with short runs then 48v will do to keep up with traffic and golf carts. External fan cooling might be needed also.




yea i know than the motor can manage more voltage, but the problem is than my motor whit 24v reach near 6000rpm !
and the gearbox of the vw beetle is in the limit
i think than my limit is 36volts and a lot of amps to generate more torque 

you know how i can program the curtis controller 1205m-5601 whit the pc ?

thanks


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Sata
_but the problem is than my motor whit 24v reach near 6000rpm !

_That is totally irrelevant
Any series DC motor will blow up if run unloaded
The problem is that 48v will restrict you to too low an rpm -Under Load -
My 48v motor with 130v would only propel my car at 100kph - controller at 100%


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

Duncan said:


> Sata
> _but the problem is than my motor whit 24v reach near 6000rpm !
> 
> _That is totally irrelevant
> ...


yes i know that but you can compesate con more torque puting the batteries in parallel to increment the torque of the motor, i think we dont need more voltage we need more torque,

but the real problem is than curtis 1205M-5601 is only programmable whit the handheld programmer than is very expensive there is another way to program the controller ?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

sata3d said:


> yes i know that but you can compesate con more torque puting the batteries in parallel to increment the torque of the motor, i think we dont need more voltage we need more torque,
> 
> but the real problem is than curtis 1205M-5601 is only programmable whit the handheld programmer than is very expensive there is another way to program the controller ?



NO NO you can't
You need volts or you will be being overtaken by kids on tricycles!

The best thing to do is to sell the Curtis to somebody for a lawn tractor and get yourself a controller that will handle about 150v

48v is not enough for even a city car - Golf cart yes - car no


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

Duncan said:


> NO NO you can't
> You need volts or you will be being overtaken by kids on tricycles!
> 
> The best thing to do is to sell the Curtis to somebody for a lawn tractor and get yourself a controller that will handle about 150v
> ...



i think the volts is for velocity and amps is for torque, my engine reach 6000rpm whit 24v, if i put 48v i will reach maybe 12000rpm !

i think is to much for my vw bettle


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Sata

You need to understand how your motor (and controller) work 

When you are stationary (zero rpm) the motor has it's resistance - this is quite low 
Of the order of 20milliOhms
So 10v is enough to drive 500amps through the motor
As motor rpm rises the motor develops a Back EMF - this is roughly proportional to current and rpm

The controller is a Power IN = Power OUT device

0rpm - Zero BEMF - motor current 500amps motor voltage 10v = 5000watts = 50v Battery x 100amps

1000rpm - 40v BEMF so motor voltage = 50v = Battery voltage power = 25Kw (25Kph)

2000rpm - The motor at 500amps would require 90v - But we only have 50v so the current drops to 250amps
Still at 50v - so battery current also drops to 250amps = 12Kw (50kph)

3000rpm The motor at 500amps would require 130v - But we only have 50v so the current drops to 150amps
Still at 50v - so battery current also drops to 150amps = 7.5Kw (75Kph)

You see what is happening?

In your VW you will need about 20Kw to drive at 100kph but by the time you reach 50kph you will only have 12kw

The fact that at zero load and only a few amps the motor will rev to 6000rpm is not relevant
As soon as you put some load on it you won't be able to reach those numbers

Going into a lower gear does not help - it just increases the revs and reduces the available power

Stick a 150v battery in 

0rpm - Zero BEMF - motor current 500amps motor voltage 10v = 5000watts = 150v Battery x 33amps

1000rpm - motor current 500amps 40v BEMF so motor voltage = 50v = 25Kw (25Kph) Battery voltage = 150v battery current = 166amps 

2000rpm - motor current 500amps 80v BEMF so motor voltage 90v - = 45Kw (50kph) Battery voltage = 150v battery current = 300amps

3000rpm - motor current 500amps 120v BEMF so motor voltage 130v - = 65Kw Battery voltage = 150v battery current = 433amps (75kph)

4000rpm - 160v BEMF so motor voltage 170v - !!!! Only have 150v!
So the motor current has to drop down


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

Duncan said:


> Hi Sata
> 
> You need to understand how your motor (and controller) work
> 
> ...



thanks for the info Duncan 

 thanks for the info 

is better use a DIY controller or one like curtis or alltrax ?
someone can recommend one ?

thanks


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Sata

I built an "OpenRevolt" - the Paul & Sabrina kit,

I learned an absolute ton from doing that!
And a lot of the enjoyment was from building the kit and doing it myself
BUT I did melt a few things in the process 

Just my tuppence worth


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

Duncan said:


> Hi Sata
> 
> I built an "OpenRevolt" - the Paul & Sabrina kit,
> 
> ...



nice info, and how much cost the openrevolt ? is a DC controller or AC ?


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

If you wish to do a lower voltage conversion, look into the Curtis 1253 controller. Specifically the 80V 600A model.


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

i found this cable in ebay and i think than this cable is capable of programing the curtis 1253
http://www.ebay.com/itm/152188098489...&sojTags=bu=bu


that cable will help me to programing that controller ?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sata3d said:


> i found this cable in ebay and i think than this cable is capable of programing the curtis 1253
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/152188098489...&sojTags=bu=bu
> 
> 
> that cable will help me to programing that controller ?


Maybe, but you need the software. See description on eBay listing. "Works on Win 7 with software 1314 (V3.12)."


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

major said:


> Maybe, but you need the software. See description on eBay listing. "Works on Win 7 with software 1314 (V3.12)."


you use that cable to program your controller ? is the same than the handheld programmer ?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sata3d said:


> you use that cable to program your controller ? is the same than the handheld programmer ?


With the handheld programmer you do not need software. It is built into the programmer. Besides that they function similarly.


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

major said:


> With the handheld programmer you do not need software. It is built into the programmer. Besides that they function similarly.


yes the handheld programmer can make the config whit the screen, the question is if the cable whit the software have the same config functions than the handheld programmer ?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sata3d said:


> yes the handheld programmer can make the config whit the screen, the question is if the cable whit the software have the same config functions than the handheld programmer ?


It has been quite a while since I used each method and things change from Curtis. I cannot assure you they are the "same", but each, or both, will do what you need to configure the system. Back when I got my handheld, there were several versions available allowing different degrees of access. The models I see for sale now look different. So I am unsure what's going on.

I suggest you inquire of the dealer.

Good luck,

major


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

major said:


> It has been quite a while since I used each method and things change from Curtis. I cannot assure you they are the "same", but each, or both, will do what you need to configure the system. Back when I got my handheld, there were several versions available allowing different degrees of access. The models I see for sale now look different. So I am unsure what's going on.
> 
> I suggest you inquire of the dealer.
> 
> ...


ok Major, thanks for the info 
i have a question for the throttle i need a 0-5k potentiometer i dont find any 
where i can find a good and cheap potentiometer or maybe a full pedal throttle ?
or maybe there is a better way to control the curtis controller ?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sata3d said:


> ok Major, thanks for the info
> i have a question for the throttle i need a 0-5k potentiometer i dont find any
> where i can find a good and cheap potentiometer or maybe a full pedal throttle ?
> or maybe there is a better way to control the curtis controller ?


Any 5Kohm pot will work although it is difficult to get the required circular travel from a foot pedal on the standard potentiometer. So the ones sold for this purpose are special and command higher price. Search for PB-6 pot box. There will be some generic as will as Curtis brand. Do not expect cheap ones to last as long.


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

major said:


> Any 5Kohm pot will work although it is difficult to get the required circular travel from a foot pedal on the standard potentiometer. So the ones sold for this purpose are special and command higher price. Search for PB-6 pot box. There will be some generic as will as Curtis brand. Do not expect cheap ones to last as long.


i need to find a potentiometer 0-5k ? or only a standard potentiometer 5k ?

i assume than the standard potentiometer have more travel than the 0-5k curtis pot ?

well if whit a standard pot can work i can make a pot box, i will make a pot box whit a 3d printer


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi sata

I modified a Subaru Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) - off a 97 Legacy 
The older ones are just pots - not sure about the later ones


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## sata3d (Aug 1, 2016)

Duncan said:


> Hi sata
> 
> I modified a Subaru Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) - off a 97 Legacy
> The older ones are just pots - not sure about the later ones


nice 

you use the potentiometer of this tps ?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/3-QAAOSw8d9UrMb7/$_1.JPG

or what kind of modification you made to the tps ?
put a lever or something like that ?


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