# Siemens 1PV5135-WS14 Overheating



## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

I am using a Siemens 1PV5135-WS14 together with a Nissan Leaf pack. I'm not sure this combination is going to work out as I'd hoped. 

The nominal voltage of the Leaf pack is 360V, but up to 400V fully charged. The name plate on the motor says the motor is wound for 215VDC. I am testing the car at the moment with the voltage at 385V. I have my torque limited to 300 Nm and a coolant flow rate of about approximately 10-20 lpm (with a Pierburg CWA50 pump). 

When I accelerate (maybe 60% full throttle) on a moderate hill climb (maybe 5% grade) the motor temperature goes from 28 deg C to deg 80 C in a couple of seconds. As soon as I stop accelerating is cools down at about the same rate to 28 degC again. I have been thinking maybe I have an airlock somewhere in the cooling system, but last evening I started thinking may the issue is more fundamental. 

The voltage is much higher than the nameplate suggests at 360V nominal. Is it possible that the motor is approaching magnetic saturation? Is the overvoltage causing substantial core losses leading to the overheating issue? Has anyone else used one of these motors at a similar voltage?

Any input would be much appreciated.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB6bS4L_WSM
T motor 1 and T motor 2 could be temp.

Maybe your encoder timing is out. What controller are you using and how many amps.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30AaYVSPck
Bottom center of screen has KTY fields which are thermistors and at 3m25s has motor temp on screen


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

> What controller are you using and how many amps.


DMOC645 with GEVCU 4.2, DC currents never gets over 150A during the test described.

That test of the motor with the Scott drive is reassuring. Maybe my cooling system is to blame after all.


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

ACEVS4US said:


> I am using a Siemens 1PV5135-WS14 together with a Nissan Leaf pack. I'm not sure this combination is going to work out as I'd hoped.
> 
> The nominal voltage of the Leaf pack is 360V, but up to 400V fully charged. The name plate on the motor says the motor is wound for 215VDC. I am testing the car at the moment with the voltage at 385V. I have my torque limited to 300 Nm and a coolant flow rate of about approximately 10-20 lpm (with a Pierburg CWA50 pump).
> 
> ...



Curious to know which motor temperature parameter you are monitoring. Does the motor torque go into what feels like some limiting factor when the temperature spikes? I have been trying to resolve a similar issue with a DMOC 645 used with an earlier Ford Ranger Siemens motor combination. 

This is the first time I have heard someolne report having what might be a similar problem with the Transit Connect Motor motor combination. Are you running the EVTV DMOC installed software? Which GUID does your software indicate?


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

I didn't get any hardware from EVTV. I'm using a version of GEVCU released about a year ago. I've done many modifications to the original code, but none of it is related to the temperature of the motor. 

I remember seeing the GUID ages ago when I uploaded the firmware. I guess I could connect up the RS232 port and see what the DMOC reports on power up.

GEVCU reports the higher value of the rotor and stator. Without going into debug mode its hard to say which value is actually being reported. Also I'm not sure if GEVCU can actually run properly in debug mode. The motor doesn't go into any torque limiting. It gets up to 300Nm if you use 100% throttle.


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

OK, here is what I have learned through my investigations into my acceleration issue. The temperature you are seeing clime rapidly is the rotor temperature.There is no physical rotor temperature sensor. Rotor temperature is a derived (calculated) based on calculated Iq rotor current. The rotor temperature limit is set at 200C.In my case the calculated temperature reaches the limit when I quickly accelerate the Mini.The calculated rotor current rapidly ramps (3 sec) to around 371A, rotor temperature reaches 200C and limits kick in and the rotor current/available torque rapidly drop ending the thrill of EV acceleration. 

There is a time constant parameters associated with the calculated temperature which I have played with, where I have extended the acceleration times. I fear, however, I may be hurting the motor.I thought the Azure software time constant was not correct or the algorithm is not proper.This feature appears to be something that got added in later software release. Maybe to solve some field failure issues. Wonder if any of the other drives (Scott) being used calculate the rotor temperature. It was hard for me to imagine the Rotor temperature climbing from basically room temperature to 200 C in such a short time even at 371A.I found a few induction motor references that indicate it might, and that has made me concerned about it. Perhaps some others here like Major could comment.

So in your case seeing the indicated temperature ramping to 80 C for short intervals is not likely an issue. If you hit the 200C limit you will notice a significant pull back. I would base any concerns on what the physically measured temperatures (Stator) says for any concerns about the actual motor cooling system.The Rotor temperature algorithm uses the measured Stator temperature as the base temperature for its calculation, because the Rotor Temperature matches it, except during Iq current transients.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

Great thanks for that info,
I'm going to get GEVCU to report the stator temperature only, that should tell me definitively if I have a cooling problem or an algorithm problem. I think it would be plausible that the rotor temperature could rise that quickly. With 360VDC and 350A the input power is around 122KW. Assuming 85% efficiency, the power dissipated inside the motor is > 10KW. If cooling is inadequate things will get hot fast. 

Does the direction of coolant flow matter in these motors. I didn't see any indication like "INLET" and "OUTLET" on the motor.


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

ACEVS4US said:


> Great thanks for that info,
> I'm going to get GEVCU to report the stator temperature only, that should tell me definitively if I have a cooling problem or an algorithm problem. I think it would be plausible that the rotor temperature could rise that quickly. With 360VDC and 350A the input power is around 122KW. Assuming 85% efficiency, the power dissipated inside the motor is > 10KW. If cooling is inadequate things will get hot fast.
> 
> Does the direction of coolant flow matter in these motors. I didn't see any indication like "INLET" and "OUTLET" on the motor.


From the attched, taken from a Semiens motor operating instrction document, it does not matter. "select as required" that is best for your installation.


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

Hi,


Im using the same combination, I had a few shut offs (8) of the inverter at high ambient temperature at a road trip off approx 65 km / 40 miles with constant speed of 63 mph. A shut off must be caused by the inverter I guess, today it is similar warm and I will check it again.


Fan on value triggers a valve in my vehicle.
This morning i had 20 °C ambient temperature 68°F a inverter temperature of 32°C / 90°F, the motor ran up to ^100°C / 212°F. I could see over the time, the value raised, in the beginning it had roughly 70°C/ 158°F.
The inverter temperature started at approx. 24°C.


Does anybody see a similar picture? The temperature of the motor jumps up in approx. 40K, somebody has described this and it is caused by the rotor temperature.



By the way: Which CAN bus can I connect together with my Orion BMS? I would like to get the temperature messages of the motor and inverter also into my dashboard (Torque pro with Orion BMS plugin).


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

I think it must be the one between Gevcu and DMOC and I need to check if one termination resistor correct or one too much.


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