# Compact tractor conversion.



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Anothe Duncan from NZ? 

Looks like a great "donor" vehicle for the electric transplant. I also have a couple of smaller EV tractor projects in the works, but I find myself not very inspired because they will be (1) just a small weird-looking utility hauling vehicle, and (2) a very old Simplicity Broadmoor that still might not be quite what I want. The 3-point hitch, 4WD, and ability to add a FEL makes yours a very versatile and capable vehicle. My choice would be a 3 phase AC motor but what you plan seems straightforward and eminently "doable". Good luck.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

A electric car power steering set up from a VW or Volvo solves your hydraulic problem quick and easy for the FEL


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am having small tractor envy!

It looks a great tractor to start with, lots of functionality and scope for development.
I take it you have land and space to use it to it's fullest?


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

PStechPaul said:


> Anothe Duncan from NZ?


Yes indeed. I went and paid a visit to Duncan a few weeks ago and saw his home-built roadster device. Very impressive!


> Looks like a great "donor" vehicle for the electric transplant. I also have a couple of smaller EV tractor projects in the works, but I find myself not very inspired because they will be (1) just a small weird-looking utility hauling vehicle, and (2) a very old Simplicity Broadmoor that still might not be quite what I want. The 3-point hitch, 4WD, and ability to add a FEL makes yours a very versatile and capable vehicle. My choice would be a 3 phase AC motor but what you plan seems straightforward and eminently "doable". Good luck.


Well, if they serve a purpose and are practical, who cares what they look like? Sometimes, the more unique the better! 

And thanks for the encouragement. I decided on the ME1003 in part due to its cost and in part due to its size - there isn't much room in the engine compartment!


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

piotrsko said:


> A electric car power steering set up from a VW or Volvo solves your hydraulic problem quick and easy for the FEL


Thanks Piotrsko! I picked up a cheap second hand starter motor that should hopefully suffice... I know duty cycles are different, but I've heard of people using them successfully as hydraulic pumps so I guess the load must be sufficiently lower for them not to burn out.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> I am having small tractor envy!


Hehe - well, perhaps I have home-made tractor envy too! 



Woodsmith said:


> It looks a great tractor to start with, lots of functionality and scope for development.
> I take it you have land and space to use it to it's fullest?


Thanks, it took me a while to finally get a suitable size. And yes, we have 10 acres here with lots of projects... (of which the FEL will come in super handy for most!)


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Bleuie EV conversion, day 1.*

Hi all,

So a friend of mine (Ants) an I managed to start on dismantling and water blasting the engine this weekend.

We didn't quite get to remove the whole thing, but did get the radiator, exhaust manifold, air filter and fuel cutoff parts removed. 

Here are some pictures and video of the progress:

Ants on Bleuie - last diesel powered (albeit by proxy) motive before removal of parts:















Bleuie and me, prior to removing anything.

Before we removed anything, we started draining the engine oil. Only about 1 to 2 liters of oil drained in the end - hardly surprising considering the gaping hole in the side of the block! 









Radiator, radiator fan, air filter, fuel pump, exhaust manifold, tachometer and alternator removed. Quite a bit of space freed up already!
There were 2 steel pipes that fed into one of the bottom corners of the radiator unit that had what looked like nearly clear hydraulic fluid in them.
I sealed these off by looping back the rubber piping that sealed them to the radiator (as suggested by Ants).
You can see them on the middle bottom part of the picture. Strangely, they don't appear in the radiator schematic for the tractor:










I'll trace these back at a later date to determine exactly what they are.









The bits removed. About 1/2 a litre of diesel and a few 100 mls of radiator fluid as well.

I might be able to re-use the air filter for forced cooling of the ME1003, if it ends up running a bit hot.









Post de-greasing and water blasting. I started removing the engine from the transmission, but only got about 1/3 of the mounting bolts removed (ran out of energy and time).
I'll also need to remove the hydraulic pump from the engine, as it'll prevent the engine from being moved in one go. The hydraulic pump is the aluminum block to the right of the oil filter, just below the steering shaft. Here's the schematic for the Hydraulic system:










All in all, I'm pretty pleased with what we got done for the 'first day' of the conversion.
She's back to resting under the tarp for now.
I'll eventually move her into my 21ft continer workshop. It'll be a bit of a squeeze and cozy, but weatherproof.


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## tchapin (Feb 2, 2011)

Here is a link to my E8n I did a little while back. Mine was a direct drive setup. It wasn't long when I realized I needed to come up with some form of a clutch running off the original peddle. Once that was added, the tractor became very handy and straight forward in it's operation. Anyone can run it and at this point my family hates it when my father barrows it and leaves one of his old junker gas tractors to use.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/e-ford-8n-80143.html


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

tchapin said:


> Here is a link to my E8n I did a little while back. Mine was a direct drive setup. It wasn't long when I realized I needed to come up with some form of a clutch running off the original peddle. Once that was added, the tractor became very handy and straight forward in it's operation. Anyone can run it and at this point my family hates it when my father barrows it and leaves one of his old junker gas tractors to use.
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/e-ford-8n-80143.html


Very nice conversion you have there tchapin!  How have you found the little eTek motor's performance? What's the max load you've put it under (amp wise)?


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## tchapin (Feb 2, 2011)

Well the tractor has a pretty easy life. Traction is more of a problem then power. Really the only real amp load is if we have both transmissions in high gear and going for a speed run. I run it up to 250-300 amps for a short time in those cases. Regular work is normally 50-100 amps.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Bleuie EV conversion, day 1.*



DMA said:


>


Cute video! 



DMA said:


> There were 2 steel pipes that fed into one of the bottom corners of the radiator unit that had what looked like nearly clear hydraulic fluid in them.
> I sealed these off by looping back the rubber piping that sealed them to the radiator (as suggested by Ants).
> You can see them on the middle bottom part of the picture. Strangely, they don't appear in the radiator schematic for the tractor:


Could be an optional built in oil cooler, perhaps something that only appears in some countries or as a special factory order perhaps.


It's great getting down to removing all the oily stuff. 

I found that when I drive my tractor I use the foot brake as I would do a clutch.
Unlike a 'proper' tractor I have a foot accelerator instead of a hand throttle.

I hold the tractor on the foot brake with my left foot and then apply a little power with my right foot. I can hear the power application as the Curtis whines a little. When I know the power is on, and the slack in the drive train is taken up, I ease off the brakes as I would lifting off a clutch and the tractor pulls away.
I find it easier doing hill starts that way.

At Arch's previous job, Beryl the Bradshaw FB2 could be held on the hand brake when doing a hill start.

The replacement Goupil has a micro switch on the hand brake and the foot brake so then when either are applied the controller is cut out.

That makes hill starting a pain! The Goupil always rolls back a few feet as there is no drive at all until a moment after both brakes are off.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Bleuie EV conversion, day 1.*



Woodsmith said:


> Cute video!


Thanks!  Can't wait to get her motive under her own power again.



Woodsmith said:


> Could be an optional built in oil cooler, perhaps something that only appears in some countries or as a special factory order perhaps.


I re-read an old email from the previous owner, where I asked about hydraulics, and he mentioned there were 2 hydraulic lines feeding into the radiator. Funny that I read it just after I posted the last update, haha. So yes, hydraulic line it is!



Woodsmith said:


> It's great getting down to removing all the oily stuff.
> 
> I found that when I drive my tractor I use the foot brake as I would do a clutch.
> Unlike a 'proper' tractor I have a foot accelerator instead of a hand throttle.
> ...


Yeah, I'm no motor head, but it's great to see how it's all pieced together and works. That controller-disabling-brake sounds like quite a pain indeed! Luckily there are no hills where Blueie will currently be used, so hill starts won't be a problem (although it's a hand throttle, with a brake, so it shouldn't be an issue in any case). Plus, because there's no requirements to get it road legal, I can set it up whatever suits best (and is safe of course!).

I plan on removing the rest of the engine block this weekend. I'll take off the hydraulic pump first, leaving the connections to the hoses in place.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

So Ants and I managed to get some time to (start) stripping the engine out last weekend.

First of all we removed the starter motor. It got quite the knock when the piston blew out of the side of the block!








_Damage to starter motor._​With the starter motor removed, you can see the flywheel (that the motor turned) inside the clutch housing:








_Starter motor removed._​We had hoped to be able to remove the engine by removing as few other parts as possible. The service / workshop manual, however, recommended removing the clutch housing, which in turn meant removing the footwell and stering column assembly. I intend to keep the clutch as-is and just replace the ICE. It turns out that we did need to remove part of the foot well and the steering column, as there were 2 bolts that held the plate that attaches the engine to the clutch housing on that were inaccessible otherwise. 








_The steering column, unbolted._​Having the service manual as well as the parts manual really made identifying all of this nice and easy - I'm glad I got them!

On a slightly tangental note, we had some other friends around, which meant that I was finally able to get the old garage double-door lifter onto the pallet shed frame I made! Provided some much needed shade in the scorching NZ sun...








_Ahh, some shade._​Having the tractor in the shed also had the added benefit of being able to use it to lift the engine block out of the front of the tractor. I didn't have an engine hoist as such, but Ants came up with the idea of using ratchets with the shed cross beams for lift. IT worked better than I expected, and after a bit of persuasion the mounting plate seperated from the clutch housing, and the engine was floating freely!












_Up, up and away!_​Part of the hydraulic system did get in the way though (I believe it's the return line?), as it followed the contour of the engine. This meant that the mounting plate got in the way as I was seperating it from the clutch housing. After some persuation though, that last obstacle was removed and the engine was finally free to swing.








_Hydraulic line, after moving it out of the way..._
​







_A side view of the flywheel and clutch, still attached._​







_View of the clutch housing, flywheel and engine._ _Notice the hdraulic lines leading to the gearbox...(more on this later)_​I decided to do a quick comparison of old engine vs new motor - it turns out that the electric motor was even smaller than I though, in comparison!







_Old heart vs new
_​I'm pretty pleased with the progress we made on Saturday. It's great to finally have the engine removed! ​


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion: Transmission...*

As mentioned in the first post, I was a bit confused with the hydraulic line feeding into the radiator. 

This appears to be the hydrostatic line coming from the gearbox! For some reason, I though that the tractor was manual, but it's not - it's hydrostatic. This is confirmed by the Model Name Plate, as well as the schematic from the workshop manual:


















So the HST transmission fluid got cooled using the radiator. This means that I'll more than likely need some sort of active cooling for those lines.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion: Clutch & flywheel inspection and measurements.*

I'll need to get 2 additional parts machined up in order to get the electric motor mounted to the clutch mounting plate:

1. Connection from motor shaft to flywheel. This is essentially what the old crankshaft was.
2. Adaptor plate to mount the motor on the mounting plate that connects to the clutch housing.

I've taken measurements of the various parts (including the splined shaft leading to the transmission), and will bring the existing mounting plate, flywheel and clutch when getting the 2 parts machined.

I did a quick inspection of the clutch to see what condition it was in. It doesn't look too good (from my severely limited knowledge) unfortunately. It appeared to have scratch marks on the clutch plate, and part of one of the diaphragm springs had fallen out of its enclosure.









_Clutch: not so good..._​








_Sprung spring._​Upon closer inspection of the photos, however, it appears that the 'scratches' are some sort of fibrous material. I suspectef that some grass got into the housing at some point perhaps.









_Closeups of clutch plate.
_​ But then I read up a bit on clutch plates and their composition. Apparently clutch plates come in one of 2 forms: Organic and Ceramic. The organic ones are made of metal fibre interwoven with organic materials. This would explain the fibrous look of the scratches. And indeed, upon further inspection of the first image, it looks like the fibre is part of the plate itself.

Also, some of the rivets on the clutch seem to be badly worn.

I'm of two minds whether or not to replace the clutch. On the one hand, it's obvious it's in bad condition, and replacing it now would be the best time, if I was to do it.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how much I'll be engaging the clutch when operating the tractor. So engaging/disengaging cycles potentailly won't be an issue...

Any thoughts/advice on that one? I'll enquire as to how much a replacement clutch will cost in any case.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Do you need a clutch at all?
You can direct connect the motor to the trans using the old clutch centre anyway.

That spring is broken from one of the clutch centre springs and, with the worn rivets, I would either find an alternative centre plate or scrip it down to just the splined disc to make a couple from.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> Do you need a clutch at all?
> You can direct connect the motor to the trans using the old clutch centre anyway.
> 
> That spring is broken from one of the clutch centre springs and, with the worn rivets, I would either find an alternative centre plate or scrip it down to just the splined disc to make a couple from.


Yeah, I had been toying with the idea of removing the clutch (and flywheel) and direct coupling it, as you say, but thought it might be better to leave as much in, apart from the engine, as possible. Would you recommend keeping the flywheel or discard that as well Woody?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't know that you need the flywheel either.

If it is hydrostatic then there might not be any need or benefit to having a clutch or flywheel assembly as there are no gears to change. The flywheel might add mass to dampen out the loads but the motor armature isn't going to suffer that much anyway.

I'd be tempted to have a look at the manual to see what the workings of the trans are and if there is any need for the clutch especially as you can just stop the motor to change any gear or settings if needed.
Also check if the motor needs an idle setting for keeping hydraulic pressure up for any other actions, though that is unlikely.

You can knock up a cheap and ugly fixed coupling with that clutch plate, strap the motor in, and see what happens with the trans. Put the tractor on stands so it doesn't run away and to reduce drive train load for testing.

That will also tell you if the rest of the tractor all works as expected.


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## KenB (Apr 6, 2009)

Clutch will probably be useful for changing gear ranges and engaging PTOs.

Ken


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## tchapin (Feb 2, 2011)

On my conversion I scraped the clutch. I then realized I needed a form of foot clutch because you run out of hands quickly when moving, steering, and running the 3 pt. lift.

I corrected that by adding another pot connected to the original clutch peddle. Now its more of a foot operated reverse throttle (slows from set hand throttle speed to zero the farther the peddle is depressed) but it works great. the other plus is a novice can run the tractor with no problems. The first time people got on it to hook up a trailer ended up plowing into the trailer because they were trying to stop the tractor by stepping on the clutch peddle.

Your process could be totally different with hydraulic drive, making me think even more pluses to dump the clutch.

As for engaging pto and the such. just stop the motor.

Dump the clutch and flywheel and go with a direct connect/direct drive setup.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

I think I will go for the (simpler?) option and remove both the clutch and flywheel. 

I'll see about getting the parts needed made up in the next week or two. Will keep you all posted.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You can still keep hold of the flywheel and clutch parts just in case there is any reason to put them back. 

That is partly one of my failings, I keep all the parts in case I need them again.

Then I do a mass clear out just before I find I need that thing I just got rid of!


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Haha, I'm not much different in that regard! Was planning on keeping as much as possible. I'll be keeping the engine block and will make something with it - probably a coffee table - to show off the big hole in the side. Or, if feasible, 'explode' the parts like in the parts manual, and wall mount the lot. Will show the complexities of ICEs!

The clutch plate and drive plate are in pretty bad shape though - if I was going to re-use the clutch I'd replace it with a newer one. I can also use the drive plate as a basis for machining up an adapter to the splined drive shaft and motor..


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

DMA said:


> Haha, I'm not much different in that regard! Was planning on keeping as much as possible. I'll be keeping the engine block and will make something with it - probably a coffee table - to show off the big hole in the side. Or, if feasible, 'explode' the parts like in the parts manual, and wall mount the lot. Will show the complexities of ICEs!


Cool!

When I was 18 and studying motor vehicle tech I sectioned and motorised an old manual gearbox I had spare, to show how it worked inside. I then donated it to the college.
It was nicely done with the cut edges and gears colour coded.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion - Hydrostatic transmission knowledge.*

I've been thinking a bit about the hydrostatic transmission. Have any of you any experience with them? Specifically:

1. Cooling. The old system went through the radiator. Would an alternative loop through a heatsink with a fan (similar to a CPU setup) potentially work?

2. Running. Since I 'broke' the sealed hydraulic circuit when removing the radiator, there is now air (and a little less fluid) in the system. Will it harm the transmission / hydraulic system running it at low RPM for testing? My understanding is that pressure needs to be built up for the transmission to 'engage'. Will having air in the system cause it harm?

I'll do some research and reading up on this type of transmission system as well, but thought it worthwhile to ask in case one of you has the experience. 

Many thanks,
D.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cooling should be straight forward, maybe an off the shelf oil cooler radiator fitted as a stand alone with a small fan to help if you find it needs it.

I am not sure but possibly the hydro trans will sort itself out if the oil level is topped up and then spun in neutral, or with wheels in the air going through the 'gear' selections, to get the air out much like a power steering rack.


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## piersdad (Aug 16, 2008)

here is the motor attached to the adaptor plate waiting for a 120 mm coupling with rubber adsorbers in it not much room so cross my fingers


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks Woody!  

Yeah, I've been reading the HST service manual, as well as some other posts online regarding 'bleeding' the air out of a hydrostatic transmission. Having it up on blocks, putting throttle to about 3/4 of full and going forwards and backwards a few times seems to do the trick.

I think I'll flush the transmission and get new filters for it, in any case.

Regarding the cooling, I'll see about getting a small oil radiator like you suggested.

Also, regard the motor mount, my friend piersdad (who's amazingly skilled) has very kindly helped out. He's taking the original mounting plate and modifying it to bolt the motor to, as well as making up a coupling between the old transmission shaft (using the old clutch innards) and the electric motor shaft. He's just posted a pic of the motor attached to the mounting plate. Thanks piersdad!


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## piersdad (Aug 16, 2008)

up date i have turned ( with great difficulty ) the end of the gearbox drive spindle so that it will fit into the end of the electric motors shaft ( it was a 10 mm bolt hole) this will stabilize the coupling and make it easier to assemble /disassemble this then allowed me to fit in the limited space -- 108 mm -- to fit the coupling. so one side of the coupling on the motor and the other side welded to the remains of the clutch disc so hopefully the lot will be able to be fitted in the old flywheel clutch housing .
this design if it works will lead the way to any conversion of tractor / car conversion design using standard components


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## piersdad (Aug 16, 2008)

after assembly i found the coupling would put a gentle pressure on the steel to cast joint where the clutch sliding tube was and this would pose a long term fault so visited the tractor and wow the solution was simple the clutch bearing that pushed the clutch in was still there and would act as the back stop for the coupling so a simple solution was to reverse the return spring on the clutch pedal so it was gently pushing on the rear of the coupling.
the gearbox spindle can not be welded (or a key way put in) so this was the solution
pic soon


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Looking good there Piersdad. 
Nice solutions.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> Looking good there Piersdad.
> Nice solutions.


Thanks Woody - I feel extremely privileged and lucky to have met Piersdad, with all the experience (building electric trucks decades ago) and enthusiasm he's got for the project! 

Here are some more photos of the setup.

First of all, the clutch hub and spring mounting disk. As you can see, the disk has had a pretty rough life (you can see where the springs have bitten into the disk) - it probably wouldn't have lasted much longer if it was still used...





As Piersdad mentioned in a previous post, the end of the drive shaft was turned down to fit into the threaded end of the electric motor shaft. Here's what it looked like initially:





And after turning:





Next is half of the cast iron coupling, along with the rubber center that'll absorb vibration / jolts:





And here's a shot of the bits assembled:





Here's a short video of the coupling setup, with a quick motor spin-up for testing. Piersdad has created a mounting template for centering the drive shaft for balancing, before welding bits in place.






piersdad said:


> after assembly i found the coupling would put a gentle pressure on the steel to cast joint where the clutch sliding tube was and this would pose a long term fault so visited the tractor and wow the solution was simple the clutch bearing that pushed the clutch in was still there and would act as the back stop for the coupling so a simple solution was to reverse the return spring on the clutch pedal so it was gently pushing on the rear of the coupling.
> the gearbox spindle can not be welded (or a key way put in) so this was the solution
> pic soon


The throw-out bearing and hub on the right of the following clutch diagram is what we'll use to provide the tension Piersdad mentioned:


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion - further cleanup.*

I managed to remove the foot covering and clean up (waterblast - thanks Wayne!  ) a bit more of the underside of the tractor this weekend. Here are some pics:









Right side.









Left side.









Detail if left side after waterblasting - will probably need to do something about the rust...
​
After I took off the middle part of the covering, it revealed the hydrostatic transmission - with a lot of debris (mostly oily pine needles) on the top!








It cleaned up fairly well:







Post waterblast clean.​
I'm happy how oil free and clean the engine compartment and outside of the transmission are now. Will be much nicer to work with, when fitting and installing the electrical conversion parts.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion - clutch and engine mounting points.*

I had a think about how the old engine was mounted vs the new motor.

The old heavy diesel engine had 2 rubber mounting feet connecting the front end of it to the frame. As well as that, there are 2 rubber mounting feet connecting the narrow end of the clutch bell housing (still in-situ) to the frame.

These 4 mounting points are marked on the following photos:










Clutch housing mounting points.

















Engine and clutch housing mounting points.​
The new electric motor is significantly lighter than the old diesel engine. I had hoped to be able to get away with not having have any additional mounting points made up for the new motor, but since the mounting feet of the bell housing are at the narrow part, I think there will potentially be a bit too much movement on the motor end. So I'll have an additional mounting point going from the mounting plate to the front 2 mounting feet.

I'll also design the mount / brackets so that we can easily remove the motor without having to remove any / as few as possible other components (i.e. batteries, controller etc).


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion - clutch and engine mounting points.*

Hi
When you are looking at the motor mounts remember that the old ones were designed to stop motor vibrations
With an electric you don't have the cylinder pulses so much stiffer mounts will work fine
Stiffer mounts have the advantage that they will locate the motor better and restrict its movement


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi Duncan,

Good suggestion! Yes, I think we'll make do without the rubber feet, but use the mount points for the new and improved stiffer steel mounts.

Thanks Duncan,

Duncan.


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## piersdad (Aug 16, 2008)

finally got a 4mm steel backing plate for the old clutch inner part 
a local sheet steel making firm allowed me to dumpster dive for a few bits of scrap so plenty of exactly what i want for free


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Using pitch, roll, and yaw for the range of movement....

If the bell housing mounts are able to support the weight of the motor and prevent it from pitch and yaw then you only really have to worry about roll from torque reaction. That can be controlled by a simple brace to the top of the motor frame sideways to a part of the frame.

I would imagine, looking at the photos, that the bell housing mounts might be a bit too far back and the weight of the motor would cause it to pitch down at the front.
Maybe an additional flat sheet steel mounting cradle across the chassis frame to support the front end of the motor would solve all the possible range of motor movement. That would/could be rigidly mounted to the chassis without any rubber as there is unlikely to be any significant chassis twist or movement over the length of the motor.

Something a bit like this:









Or, simpler, like this:









Being a tractor it would be advisable to have a good rigid front end mount for the motor to prevent all that mass from bouncing about all suspended at just the bell housing end.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Duncan
I was going to say that you would need some rubber - but on reflection I'm not at all sure that you do!
Forklifts are all solid - the motor is bolted down without any rubber
As were the older tractors - some used to use the diesel engine as a structural part 
They bolted the front axle to the front of the engine and the back of the tractor to the back of the engine

So nice simple steel motor mounts should be dandy

Those four mounts you have look great far enough apart sideways and front/back to hold the motor with nice low forces


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> Using pitch, roll, and yaw for the range of movement....
> 
> If the bell housing mounts are able to support the weight of the motor and prevent it from pitch and yaw then you only really have to worry about roll from torque reaction. That can be controlled by a simple brace to the top of the motor frame sideways to a part of the frame.
> 
> ...


Roll and yaw don't seem to be a problem for th current bell housing mounts. Pitch (downwards, towards the front, obviously) is an issue though. So much so, that the bell housing is leaning on the metal cowling for the belly drive shaft going towards the front axle (for 4 wheel drive). I'll have to attach the bracing to the mounting plate, as the only bolt holes currently on the motor are at the face that mounts to the bell clutch housing mounting plate. I know it's been done before, but I'm not sure I want to weld directly to the motor...



Duncan said:


> Hi Duncan
> I was going to say that you would need some rubber - but on reflection I'm not at all sure that you do!
> Forklifts are all solid - the motor is bolted down without any rubber
> As were the older tractors - some used to use the diesel engine as a structural part
> ...


Yeah, there shouldn't be much, if any, vibration from the motor once it's mounted correctly (centered etc.). I was considering using the rubber feet, as they are there and wouldn't get used otherwise, but I'll see what works out best in terms of fitting everything in.

Getting close to mounting and trying out the motor - hopefully I'll get it done today sometime.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Compact tractor conversion - first drive!! EV grin time.*

Today was a good day. Unfortunately, as I was fitting the mounting plate one (which has the motor bolted on) to the bell housing, one of the bolts snapped as I tightened it - I suspect I replaced a shorter bolt with a longer one, and over-tightened it. I also tried fitting another bolt, which had a different thread I later discovered, before it. Which might have messed up the hole thread... Most of the bolt got wedged in the hole, so I'll probably need to remove it at some stage... which will involve removing the bell housing, as getting to it is too much of a tight squeeze. *Lesson learnt: don't force bolts!* 








​Despite that slight mishap, I did manage to fit the mounting plate successfully. It was quite awkward, as the hydraulic lines are shaped to fit very closely to the mounting plate. These lines are rigid (metal), so I might change these for flexible hosing later on. This will also give me more flexibility in where I mount the radiator (for transmission fluid cooling, as per Woody's suggestion) and the hydraulic motor, for non-transmission hydraulics.

Once the motor was mounted, I decided to try it with a 12v 120ah SLA battery. Not surprisingly, it worked!  There is a slight wobble in the mounting though. I had a look inside the bell housing (through the convenient hole that the started motor connects to the flywheel), and it looks like the cast iron coupling isn't evenly connected, causing the wobble. I'll fix this later - hopefully cycling the clutch a few times should do it, as it'll tighten the whole coupling assembly to the motor.

I then decided to connect the universal joint to hook up the transmission to the drive shaft, and try the motor again. This worked, but I did notice that the return line I had hooked up for the transmission cooling (in leu of a radiator) was leaking. I disconnected the motor, and tightened it up (this took a few goes to get sealed.)

Once I was happy the transmission line was sealed, I decided to try and get the wheels moving! I jacked up the back wheels and put the back axle on axle stands. I then re-connected the motor, being very careful not go go near the rotating drive shaft... This all worked fine, so the next step was covering the rotating transmission shaft, connecting up the battery to something better than jumper cables, and going for a drive!






​I temporarily mounted the SLA battery to the front of the tractor with a tie down. I also connected the battery to the motor through an emergency disconnect switch (aka Big Red Button), for more convenient starting and stopping. This is only a temporary solution.






​Once that was all done, it was time to take Bleuie for a test drive. EV grin time:









All in all, I'm extremely happy with progress so far (despite the snapped bolt - lesson learnt!). Next step: Getting the layout for the rest of the components.


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## piersdad (Aug 16, 2008)

well the motor part was my project now duncan has got it mounted.--
40 years ago i built new zealands first electric truck and this time i helped with the electrics of new zealands first ELECTRIC tractor a thrill for me


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

piersdad said:


> well the motor part was my project now duncan has got it mounted.--
> 40 years ago i built new zealands first electric truck and this time i helped with the electrics of new zealands first ELECTRIC tractor a thrill for me


Indeed - thank you so much for the help and experience - it was invaluable! Can't wait to show you more progress soon


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Congratulations! I know I was very happy when I took my first ride on my electric tractor, but I have a lot more to do before I can declare it anywhere near finished. It would be interesting to know the current draw during your ride. My (much smaller) tractor but with a somewhat bigger "me" on board, was drawing about 15 amps at 24 volts or about 360 watts or 1/2 HP. I was using the original transmission and belt + chain drive, and I think that was taking a fair amount of power. I was using a home-made 24 volt to 320 volt DC-DC converter and a 2 HP VFD with a 3 phase 2 pole motor, so I was pleased that it seemed to take not much power from the batteries. 

I see that your 4WD does not have a limited slip differential, although perhaps it would take having one rear and one front wheel losing traction to stop it. That's where having hydraulic motors on each wheel would be awesome, but I'm sure your machine will serve you well. 

Keep that EV grin!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Fantastic progress and very well done, Duncan. 

Looking at the set up now, in its entirety I am wondering why you need to keep the bell housing.

I think I would lose the bell housing and mount the motor in its place with just the short prop shaft connected to the motor shaft.
Or you could use the same coupler and mount the motor to the front of the trans so that it sits in the prop shaft tunnel.

Just a thought really....

Also do you need a speed controller on the motor? It doesn't control the speed of the tractor, the trans does that hydraulically. I would wonder if just powering the motor on a big contactor, as a forklift would do for its hydraulic pump motor, would be sufficient.

Maybe a micro switch on the foot pedal so that when it is depressed for the first mm the motor starts and further foot movement allows hydraulic fluid to flow and the tractor to move.
That would also mean that other hydraulics would run with just the lightest of foot pedal pressure.

That could simplify the whole system and save the motor having to spin all the time.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

PStechPaul said:


> Congratulations! I know I was very happy when I took my first ride on my electric tractor, but I have a lot more to do before I can declare it anywhere near finished. It would be interesting to know the current draw during your ride. My (much smaller) tractor but with a somewhat bigger "me" on board, was drawing about 15 amps at 24 volts or about 360 watts or 1/2 HP. I was using the original transmission and belt + chain drive, and I think that was taking a fair amount of power. I was using a home-made 24 volt to 320 volt DC-DC converter and a 2 HP VFD with a 3 phase 2 pole motor, so I was pleased that it seemed to take not much power from the batteries.
> 
> I see that your 4WD does not have a limited slip differential, although perhaps it would take having one rear and one front wheel losing traction to stop it. That's where having hydraulic motors on each wheel would be awesome, but I'm sure your machine will serve you well.
> 
> Keep that EV grin!


Thanks Paul! 

I hooked up a clamp ammeter to measure the current draw (although I'm not convinced on the accuracy of the numbers...). The max current draw was on startup inrush, of about 50 A. When moving over lose soil, and with 4wd engaged, the current was about 8A in 'high' gear. So under 100W. This seems very low to me, hence the not being convinced on the accuracy of the meter.

I do plan on hooking up plenty of instrumentation (voltage per cell, current draw, temp, GPS) for profiling. I'll detail more on this later in the build process.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> Fantastic progress and very well done, Duncan.
> 
> Looking at the set up now, in its entirety I am wondering why you need to keep the bell housing.
> 
> ...


Thank you Woody, it's a great motivator - both reaching the milestone and the words of encouragement from others.

Yes, it is very feasible to remove the bell housing, and couple the shafts as you mentioned. However, the bell housing does provide for an centered place to mount the motor as well as an additional place for bracing going towards the front. There should also be plenty of space in the engine compartment for mounting everything, so the space saved isn't that important. And it's also currently mounted and working (although it does need tweaking).

Regarding the motor controller, it's a good point that it's not needed with the hydrostatic transmission. The controller I got (Alltrax SPM) does allow for realtime monitoring though, and I intend to use this. Plus it'll give me experience with using a controller for future conversions. 

Here's a screenshot of what it can monitor (I plan on hooking it up to a Raspberry PI instead of a windows machine though): 











I also have a Curtis PB-6 0-5K Ohm throttle which will connect very easily to the old throttle handle on the steering column. 

It's all a learning experience for me and as I've got the parts, I'm thinking I may as well use then.

But I do like the thought of keeping it as simple as possible. I'll probably do this for a rideon mower conversion that I have planned...


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

One other reason for using a speed controller and throttle is that some of the hydrostatic mainatenance, such as tuning the foot pedal controlling travel, as well as bleeding air, requires lower speed (1500rpm) to perform.

Although I could get around that by running only 1/2 of the 48v pack. I was planning on being able to seperate it into either 12v or 24v sub-packs (using anderson connectors) in any case. Probably 24v would be sufficieent.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

So we've been pretty busy here at home lately, giving me very little time to work on Bleuie.

However, I now have a dry, well lit workspace where I can work on Bleuie - a new workshop! 










That, along with Woody's recent post showing him tilling compacted soil with his tractor, has given me new inspiration to start work on completing the conversion. More to come soon...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Duncan,
Looks like a nice workshop - but it's getting cold now!
I think the bear's have the right idea - time to hibernate until spring


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks Duncan!

Yes, the weather is turning - I heard snow closed some roads down your way! Hope you stay warm. 

No snow here yet, but it's forecast... having said that, the workshop is dry, and clothing layers plus tea can take the edge off the cold. That, and I really want to work on the tractor, haha.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is a nice work space. 

I could do with finding more space then the foot print area of the project to work in. Maybe I just need fewer projects in the one space! 

Glad to have inspired you though, it is easy to let projects sit when life gets busy.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> That is a nice work space.
> 
> I could do with finding more space then the foot print area of the project to work in. Maybe I just need fewer projects in the one space!
> 
> Glad to have inspired you though, it is easy to let projects sit when life gets busy.


Indeed, we're really happy with it. 6m x 6m concrete pad, dry, with plenty of light. Perfect!  That, and less daylight and cold wet weather means I have no excuses for not finishing the project now, haha...


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## nativewolf (Oct 17, 2015)

Just wondering if you had any updates or if you'd done a youtube video of the project. Great project and thanks for the updates.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

nativewolf said:


> Just wondering if you had any updates or if you'd done a youtube video of the project. Great project and thanks for the updates.


Hi NativeWolf,

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to do any more work on the project in a while. I'll be sure to post any new developments here though, rest assured.


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## Rbertalotto (May 26, 2020)

And just like that...this thread dies???


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Rbertalotto said:


> And just like that...this thread dies???


That's not surprising. Some builders finish their project and lose interest in the forum, others abandon their project and the forum with it, and some just stall (even for years at a time) as they do other things. I suspect that few propsed projects are actually completed.


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## Rbertalotto (May 26, 2020)

Understand....To bad because this build was getting interesting to say the least.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I just found this thread, his YouTube channel is still active with some more recent updates.








Loxley Farmlet


Happenings on Loxley Farmlet.




www.youtube.com


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## Rbertalotto (May 26, 2020)

If there is interest, here is my tractor conversion I recently completed. I like it so much I sold my gas motor Cub Cadet and will be only using this electric tractor from now on.
www.rvbprecision.com


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## RustedB&B (Feb 15, 2021)

pretty cool build!


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## zuren (Mar 27, 2021)

I'm a new member of the forum and joined to follow builds like this. I'm very impressed by your efforts and look forward to learning more. I know this thread/project is a couple years old now; is the tractor still performing well? I have thoughts of a similar conversion (small 4x4 tractor)


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