# Unknown LG 16S pack with water cooling



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

There won't be any surplus battery modules from a Volvo EV yet, and the only plug-in hybrid Volvo model that I can think of is the XC90 T8, although apparently there are also V60 and XC60 T8's as well, all with a battery mounted in the centre tunnel.

They do look a lot like the XC90 T8 modules shown in this article, which includes this illustration of the module structure:











hypermedia said:


> They are water cooled, have white water connection under them.


Interesting... does it look like they have an attached cooling plate with a water passage in it? The alternative would be cooling fins between pouches, like a Volt battery. The above illustration suggests wet fins like a Volt, with manifolds on the bottom (not a chill plate on the bottom)... or as Car and Driver puts it,


> the flat, rectangular lithium-ion batteries (shown above) are lined up like dominoes with tubes for liquid cooling between each cell


Apparently you can buy the complete XC90 T8 pack for US$$11,713.85

The Volt modules are 3P (first gen) or 2P (second gen); the cooling plates are between every second pair of cells, regardless of how they are connected electrically. It seems likely that these Volvo modules would be 2P.


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## hypermedia (Dec 2, 2019)

Thank you. Loved to know more information about it.

So it is probably a Volvo battery. I heard it was from some project at Volvo HQ. Got lots of them.

I found this on the XC90 T8 battery:
The 9.2 kWh Li-ion battery pack incorporates 96 Lithium Manganese Oxide-Nickel Manganese Cobalt / Graphite cells from LG Chem into 6 modules. The pack is water-cooled.
Voltage 270-400V

So if it is around 400V and six pack in series. Then it is about 60-66V per pack. So that seems legit.

On the picture you sent with each cell visible I can see some sort of heatspreader on each cell to go to the white water cooling block at the bottom. 

But I can only see 8 cells in the picture. Is it 2 cells in one or how is it about 60v(16s) also the batteries are not fully charged so don't know really the voltage.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hypermedia said:


> I found this on the XC90 T8 battery:
> The 9.2 kWh Li-ion battery pack incorporates 96 Lithium Manganese Oxide-Nickel Manganese Cobalt / Graphite cells from LG Chem into 6 modules. The pack is water-cooled.
> Voltage 270-400V
> 
> So if it is around 400V and six pack in series. Then it is about 60-66V per pack. So that seems legit.


Yes, this has become very conventional. 96S is the almost universal choice for plug-in hybrids and battery-electric cars, and the LG pack in the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid is also in six modules (so 16S each).



hypermedia said:


> On the picture you sent with each cell visible I can see some sort of heatspreader on each cell to go to the white water cooling block at the bottom.


It appears that those blocks have coolant circulating in passages within them; the part on the bottom is just the plumbing.



hypermedia said:


> But I can only see 8 cells in the picture. Is it 2 cells in one or how is it about 60v(16s) also the batteries are not fully charged so don't know really the voltage.


Just look at the BMS taps which extend toward the centre line of the module in your second photo, alternating side to side: they are at each step of the series, and there are 16 steps.

The difference between fully charged and nearly dead is not much more than a volt - the observed voltage must be for about 16 cells in series... but at 57 volts, that's 3.55 V/cell, so they're less than half charged but nowhere near fully discharged.

In most of these LG stacks, each polymer (plastic) frame piece holds two cells each with only one side against a cooling plate, so if you count "slices" on the outside you'll get half the number of cells - if it is only 1P, there would be only 8 pairs of cells and only 8 sections of housing, with only 8 cooling plates. It's a pretty low-capacity battery for a plug-in hybrid - half the capacity of a Volt - so maybe in hindsight 1P should be expected.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hypermedia said:


> So if it is around 400V and six pack in series. Then it is about 60-66V per pack.


In current EV battery terminology, "pack" usually means a group of modules in a common housing. "Module" means a group of cells in a common housing, complete with BMS wiring, cooling, and structure to hold it together. So these are 16S *modules*, with six modules connected in series and contained within the Volvo's single pack.


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## hypermedia (Dec 2, 2019)

Found these pictures.
Shows it is 96 cells and a capacity of 9.2kwh in the 6 modules pack. 

But there are 3 different capacity I found that Volvo XC90 t8 is using. 9.2kwh, 10.4kwh, 11.6kwh. that would mean it using 26-32ah LG pouch cells. About 1.5 to 1.9 kWh per module. Wonder which I have?

Yes, like you described, it is 2 cells joined together as seen in this second cut open picture. So there is then 16s in each module. And 96/6 is 16 so it turns out to be match.


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## hypermedia (Dec 2, 2019)

Also I have lots of them so if anybody wants to buy some from me, let me know. 

If the whole battery pack with 6 modules is $12k as in  here. That is $2k per module. 

So I could sell them for maybe $500 per module or bid. But *300-350* is probably more reasonable.

Located in *EU*. So probably can't ship to US and other countries.


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## robertomills (Jul 19, 2021)

Hi,
Im a bit late to this thread but i am interested in purchasing some modules from you, or if you have any info in how to find them i would be grateful?

Thanks


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## Nörbotomten (Oct 21, 2018)

robertomills said:


> Hi,
> Im a bit late to this thread but i am interested in purchasing some modules from you, or if you have any info in how to find them i would be grateful?
> 
> Thanks


Hi there,
I have lg 16s battery modules. Open for sale or trade against a complete leaf pack. Please send me an email and we can continue the discussion. [email protected]


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Nörbotomten said:


> Hi there,
> I have lg 16s battery modules. Open for sale or trade against a complete leaf pack. Please send me an email and we can continue the discussion. [email protected]


Why not post your own listing, instead of posting in someone else's listing?


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## Nörbotomten (Oct 21, 2018)

Well, the thread's been dead for two years and i am pretty sure that Hypermedia unloaded all of his modules pretty quickly since i bought as many as i could back then. I was just trying to be nice and help Robertomills with his question, and if hypermedia suddenly reappears and it turns out he still have modules i will back away.


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## catphish (Jul 30, 2017)

I'm sorry to resurrect an ancient thread, but I have a question about these specific battery modules. I am working with some of them and they seem to have inegrated BMS slave boards. Is the pinout and serial communication protocol of these modules documented? It seems to be some kind of serial chain, and I'd ideally like to use them with my own controller.


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## catphish (Jul 30, 2017)

To answer my own question, I disassembled this BMS slave module and have the majority of the necessary information. I will be working on BMS integration.


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## Greendesert (Oct 11, 2021)

Hi, I'm wondering what BMS you use for the LG chem 16s2p modules... And at what Voltage (low/high).
At this moment I have 12 x 16s2p modules in parallel and keep the between 3.540 and 4.125 volts..


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## catphish (Jul 30, 2017)

Greendesert said:


> Hi, I'm wondering what BMS you use for the LG chem 16s2p modules... And at what Voltage (low/high).


I am building an interface to allow communication with these modules via CAN. When it works, it might be possible to use simpbms. I'd be interested to know if anyone has another solution, particularly one that doesn't involve opening up the modules.


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## yo-1 (8 mo ago)

catphish said:


> I am building an interface to allow communication with these modules via CAN. When it works, it might be possible to use simpbms. I'd be interested to know if anyone has another solution, particularly one that doesn't involve opening up the modules.


Old thread I know, but I was curious how the progress went with communicating with these modules.


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## catphish (Jul 30, 2017)

yo-1 said:


> Old thread I know, but I was curious how the progress went with communicating with these modules.


It works.
Hardware and software can be found here: GitHub - catphish/ti-daisychain-bms: BMS master hardware for bq76PL455A modules
Discussion here: New BMS for bq76PL455A based batteries - openinverter forum


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## yo-1 (8 mo ago)

catphish said:


> It works.
> Hardware and software can be found here: GitHub - catphish/ti-daisychain-bms: BMS master hardware for bq76PL455A modules
> Discussion here: New BMS for bq76PL455A based batteries - openinverter forum


Wow that is amazing. Good news for me!


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## yo-1 (8 mo ago)

I bought a few of these modules, unfortunetly they were without the inbuilt bms modules. So I need another bms solution. I will try if I can get a Leaf bms to work with these modules. I need to find connectors though. Does anyone here know what type og connector this






is ?


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## catphish (Jul 30, 2017)

I don't know what this connector is. It's definitely a board to board connector, so even if you find the connector, you'll likely need to manufacture a PCB to connect to it. I suspect it may be easier just to weld wires to the the bus bars and add a new cell tap connector.


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## yo-1 (8 mo ago)

Yes I guessed it it is a board to board connector and my plan was to make a pcb to connect to. But I could not find an exact match anywhere yet. You don´t happen to have a picture of the male connector on your bms (bmu) board?


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## catphish (Jul 30, 2017)

yo-1 said:


> Yes I guessed it it is a board to board connector and my plan was to make a pcb to connect to. But I could not find an exact match anywhere yet. You don´t happen to have a picture of the male connector on your bms (bmu) board?


Yes I do


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## yo-1 (8 mo ago)

Thanks alot. Makes my search a bit easier!


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