# Scoot to the future!



## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Here is an image


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## rbgrn (Jul 24, 2007)

Wow, I'm very impressed aesthetically with your design work! BTW - That is going to be ridiculously fast. 4hp on a scooter!! I'm glad you found some M1 cells to put into it. I'll tell you what one major problem you'll have is: traction. Unless those wheels are made of glue you'll be spinning out a lot with that motor.

What's the estimated cost of everything?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Yeh, traction might be a bit of a problem but ill just go easy on the throttle. I have a 90 amp speed controller to go with the motor.


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## amidesign (Jul 26, 2007)

Hello,
How much degres your machine is capable to incline on turn before touch down ?






Light, roll and aerodynamic.
Imagine, draw and build it.


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Good Question, i don't have the CAD in front of me atm but i know the base is 7" wide and about 2-5 inches off the ground. ill have a look when i get home but i think i did account for that...


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## amidesign (Jul 26, 2007)

Look that :

http://rohorn.blogspot.com/

The recumbent position is ideal for your machine, why not ...


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Thats cool!! next rev! haha


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## amidesign (Jul 26, 2007)

Sorry I dont speek english verry well, what is "rev.", peraps revision ?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Yep! This is a learning project for me. So the revisions can only get better as my knowledge increases. The best way to learn is to do.


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## amidesign (Jul 26, 2007)

The best way is to spend the maximum time in cad study, so you save the maximum of money.

For me in Switzerland in center of Europe is midnight then I go to sleep.
You have a nice idea with your scooter, good work and nice to meet you.

Aleks.


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

So I have put a few more photos up to show my progress on the scooter. I have managed to get the motor and rear wheel set up enough as to where i can power to the motor and spin the wheel. looks very cool!

http://photo.gangus.com/v/Jos/scooter/


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## amidesign (Jul 26, 2007)

Verry cool work. I am impressioned.


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## rbgrn (Jul 24, 2007)

Yeah seriously, nice work on the fabrication! I'm impressed that you're doing 100% of it yourself.

I particularly like these:


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey everyone!
So I was burning the midnight oil on my scooter this last weekend and i decided to go for a test drive.

here are some videos of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1ZtsEdYno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJCxPzmW3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPpMR50riaY

the last two are a bit dark but still interesting to watch.


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

So I have just put up a new blog at www.evplasmaman.com
It covers my scooter in a bit more detail if anyone is interested.


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## marques850 (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi everyone!

First of all, congratulations to Evplasmaman for his unbelievable scooter!

I am in the process of building one as well, but much inferior to his.

I have no experience on it, so I will need all your help. The idea is to use 2x 12V 26A Lead acid batteries and a 300W DC motor, but I dont know which motor controller to use! any help?

Thanks


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Are you planning a 24 volt or 12 volt system? I would assume 24 correct? 

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/electronics_main.html

this site has a few good parts you might want to peruse.

-jG


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## marques850 (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi! Thanks for your reply.
Yes, a 24V system. My douth is with the controller.
I assumed that a throttle(potentiometer), the batteries and the motor was all I needed, but them I saw that a controller is also used and I dont know which to choose.

Cheers


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

So this might actually be a better site for you to look at. They have quite a lot of good stuff and i bout several parts form my scooter there.

http://www.electricscooterparts.com/speedcontrollers.html

I don't know what size scooter you are talking about but I would imagine a 500 watt speed controller would be ample so I would recommend the Curtis 1505. I have used it before and it seems to have a few nice feature while still remaining quite simple to use. It should be listed there on the site. 

I do encourage you to look around at other controllers and see what would suit your project best. Ask more questions about what you don't understand about controllers, knowing what questions to ask is the key. 

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he has food for the rest of his life

or

Give a man a match and he is warm for the night, light a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life...


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## Mitchman (Jan 14, 2008)

Do you have brakes on this scooter?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm still alive aren't I? Yeah I have a disk break on the back wheel. The motor does have 'plug breaking' (don't know if that applies on a brush less motor) but I didn't want to be stressing out the motor and controller with that.


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## Nonyaz (Mar 9, 2008)

Wowww, I always wanted to juice up my current S350 Schwinn scooter, this gives me the inspiration to do so. Can you please explain in detail the electrical side of it, I haven't heard any mention of the controller used, are you just repurpousing a hobby aircraft one? What about the throttle, how does hook in? Also what solution have you come up with for charging the lithium batteries. From previous hobby experience I know they are very picky about being charged a certain way, only being discharged to a certain point; or else they go kaboom. Are thes Lithium Ion or other lithium variant?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

So for the controller I am just using a Jeti 90 amp which I got from the same place I got the motor, Hobby-lobby.com. The throttle was a little bit tricky because it needs to be an RC PWM signal in order to work. You can get simple potentiometer to PWM converters for cheap or you can make your own with a 555 timer. For charging I am using a variable power supply along with two Astroflight blinky balancers for the A123s. These regulate the cells and keep them in moderate balance. My Dad is in the process of designing and building a specific chargers for these cells. It will be nice to have those done to spare me the trouble and danger of charging manually. The Cells are "Nanophosphate™ technology" here is the data sheet. 

http://a123systems.textdriven.com/product/pdf/1/ANR26650M1_Datasheet_NOV_2007.pdf

I'm going to put up pictures on my blog sometime soon of putting the packs together so that might interest you.

Hope that clears up a few things,
-Jos Goble

Oh BTW does anyone look at my website? Wondering if its worth updating as much. www.evplasmaman.com


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## Nonyaz (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks for the info, I can handle making the PWM signal. I have a hobby charger that does CC-CV, so I'm all set there, I even have a balancer. I do check your website, and yes I think you should keep updating it. Can't wait for the pack making info.

So it appears your filthy rich, where is this infinite stack of cash coming from? How much is solidworks anyway, is it "If you have to ask you cant afford it" category?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks, I'm just going through the second run of the battery pack seeing as the first one had some problems. Once I'll try and put up another entry on the blog sometime this week or next.

Fifthly rich no, living at home with Dad and paying a very small amount of rent yes . Keeps my income for my projects and keeps my dad with some company. I got a student copy of solidworks from school, I was part of the robotics team and now I mentor for them. If you are looking for a shop to use look for a place called "The Techshop" its a bit steep at $100 a month but i know a lot of people who swear by it. See if there is one by where you live.


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

What kind of runtime do you get with that setup?
Your website showed a pic of 48 A123 cells... Are you using 4 strings of 12 cells each? By my estimates that would give you a total battery capacity of ~11 Ah


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

MrCrabs said:


> What kind of runtime do you get with that setup?
> Your website showed a pic of 48 A123 cells... Are you using 4 strings of 12 cells each? By my estimates that would give you a total battery capacity of ~11 Ah



What I actually get is ~8.2 Ah according to my discharge tests, but then again I'm not dragging them down to the full discharge point. I'll post my discharge charts on my blog once I put it up. I have 4 cells in parallel and then 12 sets of those in series. My pack voltage is ~42v which is perfect for that controller.


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## Nonyaz (Mar 9, 2008)

A "The Techshop" would be perfect, but the nearest one is a few too many states away.. We have a few machine shops around here, I am trying to see if they will do non commercial jobs and how much etc.


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

EVplasmaman said:


> What I actually get is ~8.2 Ah according to my discharge tests, but then again I'm not dragging them down to the full discharge point. I'll post my discharge charts on my blog once I put it up. I have 4 cells in parallel and then 12 sets of those in series. My pack voltage is ~42v which is perfect for that controller.


I got my numbers mixed up when I did that estimate...
According to the A123 spec sheet each cell is a 2.3 Ah cell, so you should get 9.2 Ah, which means your doing pretty well with the 8.2 Ah...

I want to make an electric bike, and was thinking about using 2 dewalt 36 volt packs in parallel to get a 36v 4.6 Ah pack.
I'll have to do some math later to see what kind of range I could get. (I have a 4.0 mi home->work trip)

Is there any benefit to running a group of cell in parallel first, then stacking up these in series VS doing several long strings in series first, then putting several of these string in parallel?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

MrCrabs said:


> Is there any benefit to running a group of cell in parallel first, then stacking up these in series VS doing several long strings in series first, then putting several of these string in parallel?


Yes, a huge benefit. This way all your cells stay balanced to each other within there groups. If you are running the dewalt packs in parallel you should be fine because you have a BMS (battery management system) built in to each pack.

BTW I have updated my website with a bunch of new photos so check them out! www.evplasmaman.com


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## Nonyaz (Mar 9, 2008)

Was the conductive epoxy you were using for the batteries? Why did you get all fancy with that instead of just soldering tabs and shrinkwraping them together?


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## EVplasmaman (Jul 26, 2007)

Nonyaz said:


> Was the conductive epoxy you were using for the batteries? Why did you get all fancy with that instead of just soldering tabs and shrinkwraping them together?



Yes, the conductive epoxy was for the cells. A123s have a very delicate internal chemistry. I didn't want to take a risk of damaging the cells internally. Some people say they have soldered a123s with no apparent damage but @ $10 a cell I would rather not risk it.  I was however planning to use a spot welder but my friend at Tesla left so I couldn't use theirs.


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## Nonyaz (Mar 9, 2008)

What is the gearing and RPM of the motor? I am starting to work on my scooter and it seems a 2:1 ratio will net me 35MPH at full speed, that ratio seems a little odd to me. I am going with a 36v pack, so 171RPM/v = 6156RPM. The tire is 12.5" inches in diamater.... Oh wait that's what I did wrong, I used the diameter and not the circumference, I will figure that when I wake up tomorrow, but still interested in hearing your ratio's.

What would you say if I strapped 4 of these in my scooter? https://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1012 

Edit: Ok I couldn't wait, recalculated using the circumference, and my target gear ratio is 6.48:1 for 35MPH.


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