# Got the EV grin!



## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

I have been slowly working on my 66 MG Midget for the past 2 years and tonight I got it running and went around the block a few times!

I have to say I was surprised with the performance - it really moves!

Some general info:

- Zilla controller
- Impulse 9" DC motor. Original tranny with no clutch.
- 38 100AH Sky Energy batteries
- Chinoz charger

I still need to finish some body work and paint the car but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel... 

I will post some pics as soon as I can find my camera.


Pete


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

It sounds awesome!

I'm definitely interested in some pictures.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Congratulations! Looks like you built a little rocket...


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## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Pete,

Congrats!! All the work, time, money and even the frustration pays off as soon as you press down with your right foot (my experience anyway).

Sounds like a great combination; light car, big controller and motor plus LiFePO4.

What is it like to shift? Mine is clutchless and was a really pleasant surprise.

Love to see pictures of the before and after paint.

Rob


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

Here are a few pics of the Midget today. 

I have 12 of the 38 batteries under the hood and the remaining 26 under the trunk. The car sits about an inch lower in the front then back with this weight distribution. 

As you can see I still have a lot of wiring clean up - this car was originally wired for positive earth so every bit of wiring has had to be torn out and redone. 

Tonight I am charging the batteries completely for the first time. 


Pete


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## everanger (Sep 7, 2009)

very cool project.enjoy


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

After driving around the black a few more (20 at least ) times I can say that shifting without a clutch is not a problem - in fact I'm thinking I will rarely have to shift at all. It starts in 3rd gear with no problem. 2nd is just fun and will bark the tires if I get on it. And 1st is probably going to break something if I use it. So far my block isn't big enough to use 4th but my daily commute is about 12 miles of 60MPH road so I'm sure I will use it there. 


Last night I fully charged the batteries for the first time. The charger ended with a voltage of 136v (3.57v per cell) this morning the pack is reading 128v. It seems a little low but well within the safe reign of these batteries. 

I do not have a BMS yet but I do plan on using the Volt Blochers for the balancing. Then just using the low voltage warning on the Zilla for low battery. I will probably set that for around 115v and just stay away from the empty side of my pack.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is a lovely project to work on, I'v always had a soft spot for the MG Midget as it was the car my first girlfriend drove when she used to pick me up before I got my licence.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Very nice, I like the MG's and most other little british cars as well. Are the positive earth electronics also a 6 volt setup? That's gotta be tons of fun riding an MG with electric!


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

Pete,

I hope you haven't pulled out a bushel basket full of wires yet. All you need to do is reverse the leads on your auxilliary battery. A Nash Metropolitan forum that I used to subscribe to describes the process, and the only other other step they include is to flash your voltage regulator. Since you're probably not going to be charging from an onboard generator or altenator, you don't need to have a regulator. Your gauges and lights don't care about polarity. The only thing I'd be concerned about is that Lucas probably made the harness, but if you haven't had any shorts yet, it's probably okay. 

Nice looking job, by the way.

Mike

P.S.:If you've got a radio, you'll want to trade it out for a negative ground model.


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## pdhsolar (Aug 31, 2009)

Great work - Great project! Enjoy your EV - Paul from Australia


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

My '64 Spit was a positive ground as well. Don't pull out the wiring! It's much easier to just reverse the connections to the battery. The only part of my electrics that cared about the polarity was the voltage regulator, which was removed along with the fuel and temp gauges.

Good luck with the rest of the restoration. It will be worth it in the end, don't worry. I've been there. Just keep pressing onward!


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

petenyma said:


> Last night I fully charged the batteries for the first time. The charger ended with a voltage of 136v (3.57v per cell) this morning the pack is reading 128v. It seems a little low but well within the safe reign of these batteries.
> 
> I do not have a BMS yet but I do plan on using the Volt Blochers for the balancing. Then just using the low voltage warning on the Zilla for low battery. I will probably set that for around 115v and just stay away from the empty side of my pack.


Did you check every cell at the end of first charge? Do they all have same voltage? Initial balancing is pretty important since cells could have various SOC levels at first. Having shunts on during initial charge is pretty important, you are taking a risk of overcharging a cell or two.

I'm surprised pack voltage dropped that much overnight, seems that something is draining the pack, try to measure if there is any current going thru the pack while the car is off. Is there a precharge circuit for Zilla? Maybe precharge is leaking current to DC-DC converter, I had this issue until I realized what was going on.

What is the big black box that looks like old starter battery? Are you planning to replace it with small 12V aux battery?

Cool car BTW, congrats!


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback!

I have measured every battery in the pack a few times, when they first installed, after a full charge, and after running around the block a few times. They have all been within 100mv of each other every time. 

I am going to have to look into why the pack lost so much voltage overnight. The DC converter is not connected yet, so I think the first thing I'm going to do is disconnect the positive lead from my pack and measure for any current with my DMM to see if there is a small amount of current leakage from something. How much should the pack voltage settle after a full charge?

I have already pulled all of the original wiring out of the car - it was in pretty sorry shape anyway. I ended up pulling the wiring harness and fuse box out of an older Honda and am reusing some of that to build the new harness. This way I have some modern fuses and plenty of them - also I now have relays in the fuse box to connect the headlights, they should be brighter and not require the heavy wire run into a heavy switch in the dash to run them. 

The big black box is the starter battery from my boat  (I have actually run the car around the block using only this and some jumper cables before i had my big pack) Just a temporary thing until I go and get a smaller and lighter battery to take it's place. 


Pete


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

If you've already pulled the wiring, then you're doing the right thing. Use real fuses! I'm amazed at how silly the British were with how they decided to fuse the wiring. And if you got it out, it's a a great idea to upgrade and use sound safety principles.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

I don't have experience with SE cells since they have different voltage levels from TS cells, but my TS cells only lose 0.05-0.1V of surface charge overnight, from 3.8V to 3.7-3.75V. Surface charge dissapears the moment you start driving, so its not that important in of itself, but only as possible indication of current leak, which might be a long term issue. Even if you are leaking few milliamps it's nice to know where its going 

For example Paktrakr remotes are powered from first 3 cells in each group and after several hours those cells lose surface charge, even though they are still fully charged, its not a big deal as long as you know what's going on.

Its nice that all your cells came in so well balanced....


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

Bottomfeeder said:


> If you've already pulled the wiring, then you're doing the right thing. Use real fuses! I'm amazed at how silly the British were with how they decided to fuse the wiring. And if you got it out, it's a a great idea to upgrade and use sound safety principles.


I agree with Bottomfeeder. I just thought your harness might be serviceable. My harness is about ten years older than yours, and it's been fried in a couple places under the hood. The harness is really no more difficult than the Mk1 Sprite. I'll probably make mine from scratch as all I need are the lights, signals, wipers and maybe a stereo.

I once owned an MGB that would turn off the lights, wipers, and overdrive all at once, invariably at 70 mph with no street lights around. Had to pop the hood, yank hard on the front of the wiring loom, and we were good to go for another thousand miles. Makes one wonder how the Prince of Darkness got his reputation,huh?

Mike


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

Hmm.. 

I just found out that the Volt Blocher is no longer available. Anyone know of any other affordable balancing products?

Thanks,
Pete


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2009)

Tiny little car but looks like a very nice little project. Good to see you could afford the lithium batteries and the Zilla. Good going. 

Pete


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## RE Farmer (Aug 8, 2009)

petenyma said:


> Here are a few pics of the Midget today.
> 
> As you can see I still have a lot of wiring clean up - this car was originally wired for positive earth so every bit of wiring has had to be torn out and redone.
> 
> Pete


I'm converting a 1972 Mk III. Like your's, my wiring is in terrible shape and will probably replace most of it. With lots of jiggling, I got the headlights to work and one tail light sometimes. Besides, the insulation has discolored so badly that I can't tell what color they are.

I also noticed you have different seats - what are they from? I need to rebuild mine since the mice have chewed up the seat foam (along with some wiring).

I'd definitely be interested in hearing about your final weight and performance.


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

RE Farmer said:


> I'm converting a 1972 Mk III. Like your's, my wiring is in terrible shape and will probably replace most of it. With lots of jiggling, I got the headlights to work and one tail light sometimes. Besides, the insulation has discolored so badly that I can't tell what color they are.
> 
> I also noticed you have different seats - what are they from? I need to rebuild mine since the mice have chewed up the seat foam (along with some wiring).
> 
> I'd definitely be interested in hearing about your final weight and performance.


Are you using an AC setup for yours? That should be cool!

I'm not surprised to hear that about your wiring - mine was like that too. 

The seats are from the same Honda I robbed the fuse box from - I don't think they are going to stay though. My wife thinks they look bad in the car..... So I guess I'm going to have to restore the originals as well.


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

RE Farmer,

If you've still got serviceable seat frames from your Midget, Moss Motors (www.mossmotors.com) has a complete selection of interior upholstry kits in vinyl and leather in a wide variety of colors for MG, Austin Healy, Triumph, and even Mazda now. The vinyl seat recover kits start around $400.

The seats in Pete's car look like they're out of a later model Civic or something. If you go this route, make sure you get seats that fold forward so you can access the battery compartments behind the seat. Also try to get the adjuster floor brackets.

Mike


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## RE Farmer (Aug 8, 2009)

petenyma said:


> Are you using an AC setup for yours? That should be cool!
> 
> I'm not surprised to hear that about your wiring - mine was like that too.
> 
> The seats are from the same Honda I robbed the fuse box from - I don't think they are going to stay though. My wife thinks they look bad in the car..... So I guess I'm going to have to restore the originals as well.


Yes, I'm installing the AC31 motor. Hopefully, it will give me a few more miles range. I'm only planning on 30-35 TS100 cells (controller/motor is limited to 130V max). According to my calcs, my installed weight s/b the same as the original curb wt. ~1500#.

As for the seats, at 26# each, I may try building a carbon fibre frame instead. I considered racing seats, but didn't think I would save many #'s. 

Your Honda seats do look a little odd. Did they bolt straight in, or are they just setting in the car (temporary install)?

Also to further reduce wt., I'm planning to replace the rear steel leaf springs with cabon fibre, but that will be a later mod once the initial conversion if done.


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

It has been a long time since I have updated this thread.. 
I am still slowly making progress. The car now has a fresh coat of chrome yellow paint and I have started reassembling it. 

The wiring harness is 90% complete, just need to get the flasher relay wired in and that will be done. 

My goal this year is to get it licensed and drive it to work a few times before it gets too cold.

Pete


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## RE Farmer (Aug 8, 2009)

My progress also has been slowed by my son smacking a tree (doing donuts, dumb) with his car. Had to get it back on the road (and out of my shop) for him to have at college.) - consuming time & $ originally allocated to the MG. His job was to help degrease the engine bay and polish up the serivcible paint on the MG while I installed new rubber seals on doors, boot lid and light fixtures.

How's the weight distribution and ride height? I've been thinking of the same battery count and distribution as yours. Are those older SE's - they look thicker than the 2 1/4"/57mm currently advertised?


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

RE Farmer said:


> How's the weight distribution and ride height? I've been thinking of the same battery count and distribution as yours. Are those older SE's - they look thicker than the 2 1/4"/57mm currently advertised?


 
Sorry to hear about your car, trees don't usually agree with the front end of cars

The weight distribution is good. The car is sitting level. It may be a little lower in the back end than it was stock - but the suspension has not been serviced and the springs are probably a little worn. It probably would have been fairly simple to have put a few more up front.

Yes these are the older Sky Energy batteries - I have had them for about a year and a half now. 

Pete


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## RE Farmer (Aug 8, 2009)

petenyma said:


> Sorry to hear about your car, trees don't usually agree with the front end of cars
> 
> Yes these are the older Sky Energy batteries - I have had them for about a year and a half now.
> 
> Pete


OT: Actually, he hit the rear 1/4 panel - normally empty trunk space, but BMW put the battery there (for balance and vibration damping) which bent a frame member, which tweaked the trunk frame & latch, which means the convertible top won't work, which altogether means $$$. It's now serviceable but a bit ugly (a constant reminder to not do something stupid again) for less $.

I noticed in your new pics that the bonnet has louvers/vents. Did you add them or did it come that way? I also noticed you have the late model Spitfire/1500 transmission - was that also your upgrade or maybe yours was set up for racing?


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

RE Farmer said:


> OT:
> I noticed in your new pics that the bonnet has louvers/vents. Did you add them or did it come that way? I also noticed you have the late model Spitfire/1500 transmission - was that also your upgrade or maybe yours was set up for racing?


 
When I bought this car it was in pieces with parts in the passenger seat and trunk. It had 2 trannies in the pile and I chose the one that was in better shape. The louvered hood was with the car - I have been wondering about it as I have not seen another Midget with this same hood. I don't think it was set up for racing just that someone before me was trying to piece it together and had gotten a pile of parts from a newer midget/spitfire. 

Pete


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

I have had a few setbacks this week with my car.

While working on the dash I must have shorted the tach wires. The Zilla would no longer precharge and engage the main contactors. When I opened the Hairball I found a badly fried mosfet driver and a couple of dead transistors. I was able to order all of the components from digikey and repair it myself. After this I added another small fuse box under the dash with 3 amp fuses to help protect the Zilla.

While I was waiting for the parts to show up I decided to replace a wheel bearing that was worn and ended up having to replace a of of the bushings in the front end as well. I think it still need a few more bushings but I think they can wait until I have more time and money to completely go through the front end. 

After everything was back together I went for a test drive to find that I had no brakes It turns out that the brake line that runs through the transmission tunnel had ruptured - so yesterday was spent replacing that. At the end of the day I was able to go for another test drive and now everything seems to be working again. 

Here are a few pics of the car with the new paint. It still needs to be buffed but I think it turned out pretty good for a home garage paint job.


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## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

I bet this car does 0-60 mph ~7 seconds.


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

The Toecutter said:


> I bet this car does 0-60 mph ~7 seconds.


I can't wait to find out!


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## ThWongs (Sep 4, 2010)

Congratulations on a very nice project! 

Pity about having to change the bushes, but it's a good thing that they are done now. The old British cars were bad for that sort of thing! Poor engineering and cheap materials! That's why the Germans and Japanese took over the car market here!

I still love the old classics though! I've thought about doing one as my first project, but good ones tend to be expensive. So unless I was going to do the restoration myself, it would cost too much. I work on car body's every day and don't need another one to work on at nights!  

Having said all that, It would be a nice advert to show people what I can do! Mmmmm....... Need to think more about that....

P.S. Have you looked at Austin Mini seats? I'm nearly sure they used to be almost the same frame and cover??? I think you will find most British cars had very similar seats in the 70's.


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

It's been a while since my last update. I now have been driving the Midget to work for 2 weeks. Aside from lots of worn suspension components the car runs great! I did have to install the water cooling for my controller as it was overheating and limiting my power toward the end of my drive on hot afternoons. 

My drive is about 13 miles each way with 10 of it being 60MPH. I think I am using right around 25 AH for each run, my 8A charger takes about 3 hours each time to top off the batteries. I have been using Zilla Config on my laptop to monitor battery current and AH used but I am having trouble trusting the data. It typically says I use about 45 AH for each trip - and reports battery current well over my 400A max setting. Anyone seen this using the Zilla? 

I have found that shiftng without a clutch is fine when up shifting but is very difficult when trying to downshift. Now I am simply leaving the car in 3rd gear for the entire drive and am happy with the performance. 

The midget is only registered with temporary license plates right now. At the DMV they told me that in order to register i need 
-A VIN verification stating the new fuel type
-A certified weight slip
-All of my receipts for the conversion
-With all of this they will help me write a statement of fact and license the car as an EV.

I am hoping that with it officially registered as an EV that I will qualify for some of the rebate money that is being handed out this year.....

I still have a lot of work to do on the car but it is an incredible feeling to finally be using everyday. I have been surprised about how many people stop to compliment the car and ask questions about how everything works. The general perception about EVs is still that they are slow and cumbersome so it is fun to take people for a ride and show just how much torque these DC motors really have.


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

Another long overdue update...

Last fall I broke down and rebuilt the entire front suspension on the Midget. I can't say how much better it drives and feels on the road! I ended up putting just over 2k miles on the Midget.

Fortunately before the year ws up I finished all of the tasks required to get it registered as an EV in Colorado which alowed me to qualify for the Colorado tax rebate, and today I just received my state refund with over 5k back from the MG conversion! 

With the build now costing significantly less out of my pocket I have decided I can spend another $1,500 or so on the MG. On the top of my list is a BMS. So far I have been carefully monitoring my batteries as I charge and never pushing the range too far, but I would love to be able to plug it in and forget about it. Currently I am leaning toward the Lithiumate™ Lite - it has some really nice features including SOC tracking and gage outputs. It is also sold by a local company. http://evolveelectrics.com/Lithiumate_Lite.html

Does anyone have any negative experience with the system?

Pete


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## Hoosier_Daddy (Nov 8, 2011)

petenyma said:


> Another long overdue update...
> 
> 
> Fortunately before the year ws up I finished all of the tasks required to get it registered as an EV in Colorado which alowed me to qualify for the Colorado tax rebate, and today I just received my state refund with over 5k back from the MG conversion!
> ...


Congrats on getting some tax savings back on your project. Looks like you have been able to put some real miles on it and enjoy it.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2012)

Pete, 

What are you using for the charger? 

There is another in Colorado with an Electric MG. It is a 77 MG Midget. It used to be mine.

http://www.evalbum.com/4183

Pete


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

I'm using a Chinoz (rebranded Elcon) 1500 charger.

Thats cool! He is only about 1/2 hour from me. 

Pete


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2012)

The charger is a Chennic (new company name) but it should have 10 different algorithms to choose from depending upon what end charge voltage you desire. It should have been built in to the charger. I have a real Elcon and 10 custom algorithms installed. Mine is not dependent upon a BMS and quite frankly I would not want any BMS controlling my charger. If the BMS fails so does the charger. 

So what is the end voltage and what is your pack size and what type of cells do you use? The charger should be able to stop at a predetermined setting. Mine does. If it is stopping at a higher voltage you can check other algorithms and see what the end voltages are before it shuts off. You would need to monitor the charger to be sure it shuts off at the predetermined voltage. None of the different algorithms should too far from each other. One may stop at a setting of 3.65, another at 3.7 and another maybe at 3.5. Mine are incremental and I can go as high as 3.8 volts per cell. I have mine stop at 3.65. It works great. I do have a couple cells that are a bit higher but that is fine. The top end voltages will be a little ragged since I bottom balanced my cells and have no BMS. 

Pete 

Hey, you should contact him about his MG. He really likes it. Im just too damn big for the thing.


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

petenyma said:


> Another long overdue update...
> 
> Last fall I broke down and rebuilt the entire front suspension on the Midget. I can't say how much better it drives and feels on the road! I ended up putting just over 2k miles on the Midget.
> 
> ...


I'm also looking for a BMS, and this system looks appealing. I'm looking at the Manzanita, which is expensive but gives detailed output including cell level information on a touch screen. The miniBMS is a proven product. There is an option for an LCD with a SOC bar graph. Centralized or distributed configuration available. The price is very good. The Lithiumate is also very affordable. The ability to drive the stock gauges is appealing.

I'm leaning toward the miniBMS (cost, reputation, and centralized boards).
I wish there was a system that would function as a cell monitor most of the time (cut the charge when any 1 cell is too high, warn the driver or cut the power when any 1 cell is too low) and do cell balancing upon request only, when I have time to watch the process carefully. Shunting makes me nervous enough that I’m concerned about leaving it unattended.
I want my charger to be capable of reliable charge termination (with a conservative termination voltage) and the BMS as a backup if a cell goes out of balance.


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## petenyma (Apr 2, 2008)

I have 38 100ah Sky energy cells. I am unsure what the cutoff voltage for my charger is set to, it was purchased from the same group that my batteries were purchased through - so i have always assumed it is set up correctly. I turn it off when my highest cells start to rise above 3.4v. I know that's a bit low but it has worked well for manual charge management and gives me enough margin to be safe. 


I agree that a system that would balance only on demand would be nice but I don't mind balancing at every charge - if I had a higher current charger i might be a bit more worried.

I have also been looking at the Mini bms but really like the more advanced data that can be gathered with the lithiumate system.

Pete


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