# Gearing a Drag Car to "Power Band"



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

http://www.hotrodpitstop.com/tools.html#6 

1/4 Mile Calculator: 
Tire: 33" Rear: 3.25 MPH: 107 = 3896 RPM (My fastest run) 
Tire: 33" Rear: 3.25 MPH: 120 = 4370 RPM 
Tire: 33" Rear: 3.25 MPH: 140 = 5098 RPM 

The problem I see is our gear ratio of 3.25, our DC Motors "Power Band" is between 1 RPM and 4000 RPM's, anything over that will drop power because the lack of voltage.

We need a lower gear ratio or overdrive? 
Tire: 33" Rear: 3.05 MPH: 120 = 4101 RPM 
Tire: 33" Rear: 3.05 MPH: 140 = 4784 RPM 
Tire: 33" Rear: 2.55 MPH: 140 = 4000 RPM (This is where we need to be, but without losing low end) 
Tire: 33" Rear: 2.55 MPH: 120 = 3429 RPM 

With all torque and little voltage, it's starting to look like the overdrive is a must. We launch nice at 3.25, so if I can shift into an overdrive with an ending rear gear ratio in the 2.55 or lower range we will have quicker 1/4 times. I am running this by my crew chief.


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Why not more voltage?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Why not more voltage?


Well, I wish I could but my motors are limited to 170V each. So, I am trying to use torque for a longer duration to pull down the entire track.

Now that you added in why not more HP, which is a good question, I have a question of my own. We all went through my thread many months ago about using two Soltion's compared to using one Zilla to create 2000 amps of the line, it was drilled in my head by many here that two Soltions will still only create 1000 amps (even though they are wired separately to each motor). My question is, does that same 'law' pertain to voltage? If both motors are getting 170V each is it still only 170V at the end or is it 340V at the end?

Very good learning points for new EV builders.


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

340 volts in series is 2X power , same as 2X 1000 amp motors is 2000 amps on the total output . unless the gearing is to high and the motors aren't pulling hard enough . like the conclusion you were coming to in your previous post .


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

How about changing tire diameter? smaller tire is the same as 1/2 a gear ratio change. Build a spread sheet using available tire sizes and gear sets to solve for motor rpm. You could end up running 4.56 with 35" tires.

BTW voltage in this case above adds just like your amp example.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> 340 volts in series is 2X power , same as 2X 1000 amp motors is 2000 amps on the total output . unless the gearing is to high and the motors aren't pulling hard enough . like the conclusion you were coming to in your previous post .


There is no series wiring the motors together, two DC motors are connected by a coupler, but wired seperately. Each motors is wired to a separate controller, so we have two motors running independently and NOT wired together.

My limiting factor is the volts = rpm's, my low voltage (170V) motors create enormous amps/torque, but very little HP and low RPM's. You need voltage for higher rpm's, at 170V I will not get high rpm's. Must count on massive torque and low rpm's to get quicker ET's in the 1/4 mile.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

piotrsko said:


> How about changing tire diameter? smaller tire is the same as 1/2 a gear ratio change. Build a spread sheet using available tire sizes and gear sets to solve for motor rpm. You could end up running 4.56 with 35" tires.
> 
> BTW voltage in this case above adds just like your amp example.


33" is all I can fit.


----------



## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Well, I wish I could but my motors are limited to 170V each. So, I am trying to use torque for a longer duration to pull down the entire track.
> 
> Now that you added in why not more HP, which is a good question, I have a question of my own. We all went through my thread many months ago about using two Soltion's compared to using one Zilla to create 2000 amps of the line, it was drilled in my head by many here that two Soltions will still only create 1000 amps (even though they are wired separately to each motor). My question is, does that same 'law' pertain to voltage? If both motors are getting 170V each is it still only 170V at the end or is it 340V at the end?
> 
> Very good learning points for new EV builders.


Hey Ron,
Could you be specific about your setup? Here you are talking about Solitons, but I thought you had Zillas. Do you have data from the dyno tests you said you were planning?
I could model your setup if you could send me some data dumps. Then maybe I could say something other than my usual statement that you should gear for the low end: set the ratio for where you barely hold traction at the launch. The high end does not contribute much to ET.
Gerhard


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

with plenty of battery 2 1000 amp controllers is just like a 2000 controller . If say when the motor hits 4000 rpm it's generating a back voltage say 100 volts ,that means the voltage at the brushes is 174-100= 74 volts . that's how they get away with much higher voltage(if series then parallel ) then the motor can take form 0-4000 rpm .


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Have you ever thought about selling the regular Warp11's and trading up to dual Warp11HV's??

Each Warp11HV could take ~330V (advanced timing) and give you that higher top-end you are looking for...

I remember reading the dynos and data from Crodriver's testing of the single Wapr11hv and he was able to do 500hp @ 4500rpm from 270V (sagged from ~330V) & 1400A

If your batteries wont sag much at all, then you could be running more voltage which would give you even higher top-end!


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> Have you ever thought about selling the regular Warp11's and trading up to dual Warp11HV's??
> 
> Each Warp11HV could take ~330V (advanced timing) and give you that higher top-end you are looking for...
> 
> ...


I thought about it, but you lose torque with the HV motors. They are great for very light vehicles or with a transmission.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

GerhardRP said:


> Hey Ron,
> Could you be specific about your setup? Here you are talking about Solitons, but I thought you had Zillas. Do you have data from the dyno tests you said you were planning?
> I could model your setup if you could send me some data dumps. Then maybe I could say something other than my usual statement that you should gear for the low end: set the ratio for where you barely hold traction at the launch. The high end does not contribute much to ET.
> Gerhard


I have two Zilla's, the Soliton post was an example. I have not had a chance to visit the dyno yet, will try this week. Thank you, I will keep you informed.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I thought about it, but you lose torque with the HV motors. They are great for very light vehicles or with a
> transmission.


I never heard of losing torque from the HV motors....

Check out this chart from crodrivers thread, this is a single warp11HV, pack of headway cells, and zilla z2k.

The motor is getting 2000A up to the 2-3K rpm range...
(Please ignore my editing related to the "Soliton-1 Race 1400A", as it is no longer available)


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Also check out this power chart...we can calculate the torque from the standard formula:Torque = (Constant * Horsepower)/RPM

@6000rpm
Torque = (5252*400)/6000 = 350ftlbs

@5000rpm
Torque = (5252*530)/5000 = 556ftlbs

@4000rpm
Torque = (5252*500)/4000 = 656ftlbs

@3000rpm
Torque = (5252*400)/3000 = 700ftlbs

@2000rpm
Torque = (5252*200)/2000 = 525ftlbs


----------



## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I thought about it, but you lose torque with the HV motors. They are great for very light vehicles or with a transmission.


Here is the dyno data for Warp 11 and Warp 11-HV. As you can see, there is virtually no difference.
Gerhard


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

in the torque graph the motors are still increasing in torque . we need to see a higher rpm graph that shows where the torque starts falling off for both motors . something over 4000 I think (that speed will depend on system voltage) .


----------



## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

As far as "rated" voltage, have you thought about just going higher with your current setup. I am not sure if you have pulled brushes, or noticed any problems with arcing, but heck if your at max amps, and your current voltage is not giving the motor any problems, why not step it up a bit. Seems like as people get faster, they usually doing it by burning up motors & breaking stuff, then fix the weak link until another one comes along. Although your overall setup is far from conservative, its seems like you are being a little too nice on the motors


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> in the torque graph the motors are still increasing in torque . we need to see a higher rpm graph that shows where the torque starts falling off for both motors . something over 4000 I think (that speed will depend on system voltage) .


It also looks suspiciously like the HV plot is predicted instead of measured. I do recall early information about the HV11 saying they had to use 9" rotating parts to be able to fit the magnets and interpoles. That should reduce torque somewhat.


----------



## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> It also looks suspiciously like the HV plot is predicted instead of measured. I do recall early information about the HV11 saying they had to use 9" rotating parts to be able to fit the magnets and interpoles. That should reduce torque somewhat.


I have no reason to question the HV curves. The data from Netgain which I have projected to higher voltages and currents matches Crodriver's dyno runs. 
I wish more of you muts would send me data dumps to sort this stuff out.
Gerhard


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

GerhardRP said:


> I have no reason to question the HV curves. The data from Netgain which I have projected to higher voltages and currents matches Crodriver's dyno runs.
> I wish more of you muts would send me data dumps to sort this stuff out.
> Gerhard



darned hard when there isn't any instrumentation installed just vehicle detonations at some part of the course.


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> darned hard when there isn't any instrumentation installed just vehicle detonations at some part of the course.


What kind of course are you driving?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> It also looks suspiciously like the HV plot is predicted instead of measured. I do recall early information about the HV11 saying they had to use 9" rotating parts to be able to fit the magnets and interpoles. That should reduce torque somewhat.


Bingo, the LV 11" motor creates 10% more torque than the HV 11" motor. You can confirm this with Netgain Motors.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Salty EV said:


> As far as "rated" voltage, have you thought about just going higher with your current setup. I am not sure if you have pulled brushes, or noticed any problems with arcing, but heck if your at max amps, and your current voltage is not giving the motor any problems, why not step it up a bit. Seems like as people get faster, they usually doing it by burning up motors & breaking stuff, then fix the weak link until another one comes along. Although your overall setup is far from conservative, its seems like you are being a little too nice on the motors


We will run our motors at 190V and ask "Scotty" for more power! LOL


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have ordered an overdrive unit from Gear Vendors. This unit will allow me to "shift" into overdrive which will drop the rpm's back down to our sweet spot! The starting gear ratio will stay at 3.25 then in overdrive finish at 2.55. Pulling hard with 2.55 gears will get the Camaro into the 140 mph range. Guess the ET?


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have ordered an overdrive unit from Gear Vendors. This unit will allow me to "shift" into overdrive which will drop the rpm's back down to our sweet spot! The starting gear ratio will stay at 3.25 then in overdrive finish at 2.55. Pulling hard with 2.55 gears will get the Camaro into the 140 mph range. Guess the ET?


Deep 9's if the calculators play out correctly. You have bigger torque than HP and a pretty stout setup for launch so I would guess more towards low 9's if the gear vendors setup does what it is supposed to. That is if you can keep it off of the roof.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Deep 9's if the calculators play out correctly. You have bigger torque than HP and a pretty stout setup for launch so I would guess more towards low 9's if the gear vendors setup does what it is supposed to. That is if you can keep it off of the roof.


Yes the roof racing technique did not work as planned. I am adding wheels to the roof just incase. 

We are calculating the 9's also, even if the Zilla drops to 1000amps by the time we hit overdrive the car will still keep pulling hard because of the motion already created which allows for the mass weight to be lighter.

Sounds good, we will have to see! It's going to be one Hell of a show in Ohio.


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Yes the roof racing technique did not work as planned. I am adding wheels to the roof just incase.
> 
> We are calculating the 9's also, even if the Zilla drops to 1000amps by the time we hit overdrive the car will still keep pulling hard because of the motion already created which allows for the mass weight to be lighter.
> 
> Sounds good, we will have to see! It's going to be one Hell of a show in Ohio.



I beg to differ - no matter what kind of motion created, the mass will remain the same. In fact you could join the new IGEDRA, race on the moon, and your mass would remain the same.


----------



## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

piotrsko said:


> darned hard when there isn't any instrumentation installed just vehicle detonations at some part of the course.


Everyone with a Zilla or Soliton has an instrumented EV. Not sure about the accuracy, but good enough to sort out 5% questions, I think.
Gerhard


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> I beg to differ - no matter what kind of motion created, the mass will remain the same. In fact you could join the new IGEDRA, race on the moon, and your mass would remain the same.


At the relativistic speeds he is hoping for, a significant portion of his mass will be converted to energy.


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> At the relativistic speeds he is hoping for, a significant portion of his mass will be converted to energy.


Actually, I expect his mass might increase.


http://www.lbl.gov/MicroWorlds/teachers/massenergy.pdf


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Hmmm...guess I had it backwards...I thought it was that mass was converted to kinetic energy, so light would have a measurable mass if you could slow it down enough. That doc makes it easy to understand why you can't rech LS, but I don't understand how light can have infinite mass.


----------



## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have ordered an overdrive unit from Gear Vendors. This unit will allow me to "shift" into overdrive which will drop the rpm's back down to our sweet spot! The starting gear ratio will stay at 3.25 then in overdrive finish at 2.55. Pulling hard with 2.55 gears will get the Camaro into the 140 mph range. Guess the ET?


Will you have more wheel torque at the 'sweetspot' in the higher gear than you would have had before you shifted given your overdrive transmission drops the OP torque by ~25%?

Your overdrive also adds weight and there's the shift time too. You may go faster by simply fitting a longer ratio, launching slower and and keeping it pulling longer with the motor/axel set-up you have.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

jk1981 said:


> Your overdrive also adds weight and there's the shift time too.


not so much depending on which clutch system they rig up. If the band on the planetary is engaged for the lower gear, partial release will cause you to be in the higher gear. OTOH, back in the day, fter the slush boxes could handle the torque they went to auto trannies a because they shifter faster.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

jk1981 said:


> Will you have more wheel torque at the 'sweetspot' in the higher gear than you would have had before you shifted given your overdrive transmission drops the OP torque by ~25%?
> 
> Your overdrive also adds weight and there's the shift time too. You may go faster by simply fitting a longer ratio, launching slower and and keeping it pulling longer with the motor/axel set-up you have.


I have had long conversations just on this subject. If you lower your rear gear ratio to create a better top-end, you will kill your low-end. The most important factor in drag racing is your launch, the stronger/quicker jump off the line is a must, the shift to a lower gear ratio should happen after your launch. Losing some torque after the car is moving will not matter much, you will need less torque to continue your pull down the track. Once the weight is moving is requires less torque/hp to move.

The weight on the Gear Vendors unit is less than 50 lbs.


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I have a 92 dodge diesel 4x4, 5-speed ,gear vender ,3.55 ratio . shifting in the gear vender is very fast and harsh (without clutch), if under power worse . Feels like something broke , it happens every time I get off the freeway (engine braking)and forget to down shift , the unit will down shift if your speed drops below about 40 mph.The reason is it has a oil pump mounted on the tail shaft , unit needs a min oil pressure .So computer tied to speedometer down shifts . it'll scare the hell out of you, slam .


----------



## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have had long conversations just on this subject. If you lower your rear gear ratio to create a better top-end, you will kill your low-end. The most important factor in drag racing is your launch, the stronger/quicker jump off the line is a must, the shift to a lower gear ratio should happen after your launch. Losing some torque after the car is moving will not matter much, you will need less torque to continue your pull down the track. Once the weight is moving is requires less torque/hp to move.
> 
> The weight on the Gear Vendors unit is less than 50 lbs.


Fair enough if it's something you've considered. While I can see your point about the launch being important it can only be true up to a point. Take the absurd example where you have a single speed drivetrain geared for max 30mph, you'll get a gut churning launch but a rubbish 1/4. The same powerplant geared so it runs out of revs at say 100mph and 1/4mi will launch slow but put in a much better 1/4 time. Somewhere between the two you have a happy medium, a good fast launch then not too long sat maxed out on the 'limiter' (whatever that may be, revs or power). All I'm suggesting is you've probably not optimised the gearing you have for the powerplant you have yet.

I'm not saying a second ratio is a bad plan, it's probably not in the long run but there's no point in fixating on the perfect launch if what's holding you back is a slow final 1/8th. All other things being equal to improve that you need to put out more power.

50lbs for a gearbox is not bad but that's a pretty significant chunk of the all up weight of the last car I built 

I'm not sure you have the physics quite straight regarding your torque requirement at speed but it doesn't much matter given the oversize everything then add more power approach taken so far


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

jk1981 said:


> Fair enough if it's something you've considered. While I can see your point about the launch being important it can only be true up to a point. Take the absurd example where you have a single speed drivetrain geared for max 30mph, you'll get a gut churning launch but a rubbish 1/4. The same powerplant geared so it runs out of revs at say 100mph and 1/4mi will launch slow but put in a much better 1/4 time. Somewhere between the two you have a happy medium, a good fast launch then not too long sat maxed out on the 'limiter' (whatever that may be, revs or power). All I'm suggesting is you've probably not optimised the gearing you have for the powerplant you have yet.
> 
> I'm not saying a second ratio is a bad plan, it's probably not in the long run but there's no point in fixating on the perfect launch if what's holding you back is a slow final 1/8th. All other things being equal to improve that you need to put out more power.
> 
> ...


Watching and racing drag cars since my early teens, I understand certain aspects others may not. I am still learning how to use my ICE racing experience in use with a EV Drag Car. The power bands are much different, and rely on different sources for power. One fact that will never change is you must match the power band to gearing and vehicle weight. We had a good feeling the direct drive was going to hurt our top-end, but wasn't sure how much. now we know. In 1/4 mile drag racing you have little length and time to gain your top ET, you cannot "take-away" from one end and expect the other to pick-up the slack. That is why most ICE drag cars use very high gear ratios on launch and shift their way into a lower ratio.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> I have a 92 dodge diesel 4x4, 5-speed ,gear vender ,3.55 ratio . shifting in the gear vender is very fast and harsh (without clutch), if under power worse . Feels like something broke , it happens every time I get off the freeway (engine braking)and forget to down shift , the unit will down shift if your speed drops below about 40 mph.The reason is it has a oil pump mounted on the tail shaft , unit needs a min oil pressure .So computer tied to speedometer down shifts . it'll scare the hell out of you, slam .


Yes, it shifts hard, I have no problem with that, as long as it can handle the torque. You can speak to Gear Vendors in regards to your unit downshifting, they may have a speed sensor adjustment for your application.

I have owned many race cars in the past with turbo 350/400 and powerglides built for racing, when the unit slams into second gear and you "chirp" your tires, trust me you feel it.


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> .......................... We had a good feeling the direct drive was going to hurt our top-end, but wasn't sure how much. _*now we know*_...........................


So you have completed passes under full power? or dyno results? or ???

Last I heard your fastest pass (world record) was "coasting the second 1/8th on one motor"

Later,
Keith


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> So you have completed passes under full power? or dyno results? or ???
> 
> Last I heard your fastest pass (world record) was "coasting the second 1/8th on one motor"
> 
> ...


After attacking me many many times, consider your questions a waste of time and energy, they will not be answered. Have a wonderful day!


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> After attacking me many many times, consider your questions a waste of time and energy, they will not be answered. Have a wonderful day!


If a challenge to provide proof to support claimed performance is considered an attack - then I'm guilty as charged


----------



## redbull (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey kek, you talking too much sh*t about Ron. Build your own drag car and put next to him or shut the hell up!


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

redbull said:


> Hey kek, you talking too much sh*t about Ron. Build your own drag car and put next to him or shut the hell up!


You must be one of those ECEDRA trolls who is always out to discredit Kek. 

With all of "us NEDRA" goblins "out to get" Ron I guess its fair he has someone on his side.


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

redbull said:


> Hey kek, you talking too much sh*t about Ron. Build your own drag car and put next to him or shut the hell up!


I'm not asking Ron for any information that he didn't already offer or hint about - he just hasn't followed through yet.

This is a DIY forum - we have all built our EVs for our own purpose. Some members have no EV, but that doesn't mean that they don't have valuable input. I have no need or want for a drag car. My chopper is a proof of concept built with the lowest possible cash outlay. I will put it up against *any* vehicle with a similar out-of-pocket build cost. 

I would race Ron heads up any day - my $25 + my time against any $25 part of his car + his time.

Later,
Keith


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

redbull said:


> Hey kek, you talking too much sh*t about Ron. Build your own drag car and put next to him or shut the hell up!


Redbull, I thank you for the support, the car has cost me a small fortune. Don't let these guys get under your skin, I am done answering their bias questions, just ignore them.


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

without going into personal stuff , " Just ignore them" well put Ron . I ran into this with experimental aircraft , so much so articles about it in sport aviation magazine about this nay sayer mentality . Usually comes down to lack of money ( my personal problem ),lack of skills ( huge personal commitment) and the worst it will never happen or can't be done , because no one has don it before ,therefor it's imposable . I love that one .


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> without going into personal stuff , " Just ignore them" well put Ron . I ran into this with experimental aircraft , so much so articles about it in sport aviation magazine about this nay sayer mentality . Usually comes down to lack of money ( my personal problem ),lack of skills ( huge personal commitment) and the worst it will never happen or can't be done , because no one has don it before ,therefor it's imposable . I love that one .


 Ron isn't doing anything very experimental ..... LiPo - been done; two motors - been done; two controllers - been done; fiberglass body parts - been done; partial tube frame - been done........he's just building on a larger scale than most have. With the money he has spent he should and I'm sure, in time, will make some very fast passes. 

Why would you call me a "nay sayer"? All I'm asking for are the videos and pics from the ECEDRA event in Englishtown. Ron has called my integrity into question ("liar", "not a man of his word", etc), because I have challenged his version of events with the information given to me by the PR person at the track (Ron suggested that I call the track). He has not posted one tiny shed of proof, nor have I been able to find any (not even one grainy cellphone pic) on the internet. 

I will continue to ask,
Keith


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We have been calculating the new numbers with the additional overdrive unit, sure looks good. Big week ahead installing the unit and shortening the driveshaft. The unit is less than 50lbs and is 21" from mount (motor) to yoke centerline. I my driveshaft is now a stubby, just enough room for the loop and wishbone.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

_*Nikola Tesla Tribute Event!*_
EV Drag Racing 
held on July 10, 2011
National Trail Raceway
2650 National Rd. SW
Hebron, Ohio 43025​ 
We are traveling 10 hours to race in Ohio, I hope to see some of you there. This will be our Camaro's first race with the new Gear Vendors overdrive unit installed. ​ 
10's or 9's ​


----------



## redbull (Mar 4, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> _*Nikola Tesla Tribute Event!*_
> EV Drag Racing
> held on July 10, 2011
> National Trail Raceway
> ...


Good luck.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

redbull said:


> Good luck.


Thank Ya!


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




----------



## Sutitan (Feb 23, 2009)

how'd it go today? looking forward to some results. Hope everything went as intended.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sutitan said:


> how'd it go today? looking forward to some results. Hope everything went as intended.


If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck!
Friday we put car on alignement rack to set caster/camber and toe, we could not get the rt side reading for camber/caster, kept changing??? So we removed brand new Weld wheel, checked the surface and remounted same problem. Now we installed a dial gauge to check rim, the rim is bent. It passed balancing, never noticed it, balanced fine, but when on rack found brand new wheel was bent.

Called Summit Racing, they are sending a new rim on Monday, had to cancel event in Ohio for now, waiting for a new date. Will be racing this Saturday in Pittsburg Raceway on the 16th!


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

You could probably make a "because race car" picture out of these troubles:

http://becauseracecar.org/


----------



## Sutitan (Feb 23, 2009)

The suspense is killing me. Cant wait for you to have one great clean run. Ultimate EV grin.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sutitan said:


> The suspense is killing me. Cant wait for you to have one great clean run. Ultimate EV grin.


You guys don't know how bad I wanted to race this weekend, but Saturday will be here in a flash!


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

oh we know! 

i cant wait for saturday's results. Not just the time, but the how the whole setup worked out.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> oh we know!
> 
> i cant wait for saturday's results. Not just the time, but the how the whole setup worked out.


Me too! We will be racing in Pittsburg, PA. The track/event is allowing all EV drag racers to race for free and spectators only a $10.00 charge.


----------



## Sutitan (Feb 23, 2009)

Any good news?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Went to Lebanon Valley Saturday just to find out one of my Atco front shocks leaked all the nitro gas out, car's rack kept grounding out. Ordered new schrader valve for shock, will give it a go this Saturday at Lebanon Valley. Taking safety very serious, could have tried a run, but the slightest bump I would have dug into the ground. Will post numbers after racing Saturday.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Team Haiyin EV Racing is proud to announce today's drag racing results from Lebanon Valley Dragway. Here is our times:

60' - 1.4 seconds 
330' - 4.0 seconds 

1/8 mile - 6.4 @101.1 mph 

1/4 mile - 10.4 @116.1 mph 

This time was done without the overdrive working. We had wired the overdrive with the new Autometer tach and had problems with the tach, so we cut power. Forgot the GearVendors solenoid was powered on this circuit, tried hitting the button and no gear change, still produced a wonderful time today without the GearVendors. The only difference in the car from our 11.2 time is added row of batteries that boosted our voltage to 215v from the 185v we had in Florida. Going to be very interesting what times we can produce using the GearVendors??? Maybe the 9's??? Will find out next Saturday. I will scan the slips and produce video soon.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Team Haiyin EV Racing is proud to announce today's drag racing results from Lebanon Valley Dragway. Here is our times:
> 
> 60' - 1.4 seconds
> 330' - 4.0 seconds
> ...


congrats man! can you sum up the setup again, im a bit confused about the 215V comment...I thought you were running dual Zilla 2K's, meaning, why not more voltage!!!


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> congrats man! can you sum up the setup again, im a bit confused about the 215V comment...I thought you were running dual Zilla 2K's, meaning, why not more voltage!!!


Thank you!

The sponsor did not have enough cells in stock to bring my pack voltage any higher, they went on back-order because of the Chinese new year. Then we agreed on a new cell design, which will allow less cells to create enough amps/volts. The new cells should be arriving soon, then we install a much lighter battery pack 4000amps with 340volts.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=k9rmFIrEI50


----------



## redbull (Mar 4, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=k9rmFIrEI50


Well done Ron!!! 
9' on the way!


----------



## bakes (Jun 15, 2011)

Just wondering how quick is the gear vendor's shift from low to high?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

bakes said:


> Just wondering how quick is the gear vendor's shift from low to high?


Honestly, I do not have first hand knowledge yet, I will let you know on Saturday. I know it is used in many drag racing cars, so it must be instantaneous.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

From the timeslip it looks like (correct me if i am wrong) that all your power is coming from low RPM, you get up to 100mph in the 1/8 mile (!!!!) then only up to a 116mph trap in the 1/4 mile...With the higher voltage pack, the peak torque will extend further out...can't wait for Saturdays results.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

redbull said:


> Well done Ron!!!
> 9' on the way!


Thank you!


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> From the timeslip it looks like (correct me if i am wrong) that all your power is coming from low RPM, you get up to 100mph in the 1/8 mile (!!!!) then only up to a 116mph trap in the 1/4 mile...With the higher voltage pack, the peak torque will extend further out...can't wait for Saturdays results.


Yes, that is correct. We are using the massive amounts of torque to "shoot" the car down the track. Next week we will still have the same voltage 215v, but will try shifting into overdrive just before the 1/8 mile, the rpm's will drop and the car should start pulling faster! 

The 340v pack will be installed in a few weeks.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> I beg to differ - no matter what kind of motion created, the mass will remain the same. In fact you could join the new IGEDRA, race on the moon, and your mass would remain the same.


Mighty quiet these days, everything okay?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

redbull said:


> Hey kek, you talking too much sh*t about Ron. Build your own drag car and put next to him or shut the hell up!


Love this post!


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Mighty quiet these days, everything okay?


Do we need to quote your massive shit spew from the beginning where you claimed you would be running 9's your first weekend out and ranted against anyone who questioned you? All this time has passed and you still haven't run 9's have you?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Do we need to quote your massive shit spew from the beginning where you claimed you would be running 9's your first weekend out and ranted against anyone who questioned you? All this time has passed and you still haven't run 9's have you?


First, I based all my early claims on what the car can do in the 1/4 mile on facts. After running the car, we calculated our times, and compared all the info to battery volts and gearing, afterwards we knew we had a 9 second car. Soon I will prove it. I never lied or disputed facts, I made claims based on facts, if you had the experience my team has, you would have also known the car is a 9 second drag car.


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> First, I based all my early claims on what the car can do in the 1/4 mile on facts. After running the car, we calculated our times, and compared all the info to battery volts and gearing, afterwards we knew we had a 9 second car. Soon I will prove it. I never lied or disputed facts, I made claims based on facts, if you had the experience my team has, you would have also known the car is a 9 second drag car.


You didn't have a 9 second car did you? You needed more batteries, another gear, suspension work, and lots and lots of shakedown/seat time. You SHOULD BE ABLE TO make that car into a 9 second car. The way you state things is basically like staring at a tree and saying you have a house, staring at a parts catalog and saying you have a car, or staring at some lithium and saying you have batteries.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> The way you state things is basically like staring at a tree and saying you have a house, staring at a parts catalog and saying you have a car, or staring at some lithium and saying you have batteries.


Incorrect bias statement. This analogy fits better, if my house was built and had heat loss and I knew what was causing the loss, all I would need to do is complete the changes to repair the problem. 

The car was built, it ran 11.2, I knew it was capable of 9's with the correct repairs done.


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Incorrect bias statement. This analogy fits better, if my house was built and had heat loss and I knew what was causing the loss, all I would need to do is complete the changes to repair the problem.
> 
> The car was built, it ran 11.2, I knew it was capable of 9's with the correct repairs done.


Did you hire a PR guy or something? Wheres all the boasting, anger, and venom?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

BatteryPoweredToad, I see are from Gainesville, FL. Have you ever been or raced at Gainesville Raceway? My Uncle in his 60's races there weekly.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Did you hire a PR guy or something? Wheres all the boasting, anger, and venom?


No need to boast, when you own and race the fastest FULL-SIZE drag car in the World.


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Mighty quiet these days, everything okay?



Oh, I'm here - been busy working and moving relatives, etc. Thought that you didn't want to hear from me anymore.

Congratulations - NOW you have a 10 second car! Wish that you would stop pushing that whole "full-sized" thing though. It makes you look petty.

Looks to me like you weren't leaving the line nearly as hard as you did on upside-down day. I think you could get into the 9s just with a bit more chassis tuning, higher gears and practice. The gear-vendor will just make it a little easier.

Later,
Keith


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> First, I based all my early claims on what the car can do in the 1/4 mile on facts. After running the car, we calculated our times, and compared all the info to battery volts and gearing, afterwards we knew we had a 9 second car............_Soon I will prove it. I never lied or disputed facts, I made claims based on facts_......................., if you had the experience my team has, you would have also known the car is a 9 second drag car.


Just wondering if your sponsor had ever released the video and pics from Englishtown.

You know I have a little problem with the way you handled that!

Later,
Keith


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

kek_63 said:


> ...Looks to me like you weren't leaving the line nearly as hard as you did on upside-down day...


Seems to be leaving pretty nice to me, and a 1.48sec 60ft isn't bad. I can't remember what the 60ft was on the 11.2 pass?

One thing to remember is that when a bar-n-slick vehicle is working right it will look sort of anti-climactic off the line, because the majority of the energy is being converted into forward motion. The snatch you feel in the driver's seat, and the 60ft numbers, should say otherwise. Ultimate examples are T/F, F/C, P/S, P/S Bike. When they get the chassis tune-up right they just squirt off the line, with minimal body motion. In close, or in slow-mo, you can see the weight transfer until it gets on the bars, and the slicks wrinkle hard as the tires bite. I see that starting to happen in the latest Warp Factor video. Chassis setup is working much better.

By comparison, my style of drag racing, which is usually wheelie bar-less, and on D.O.T. tires, involves getting serious weight transfer which makes it look like the vehicle is really rocketing off the line. Truth is a lot of that energy is wasted, but it's a necessary evil.

FWIW, I would try a (numerically) lower rear gear. Theoretically, it should allow the motor to pull more amps out of the pack, for a longer period of time, as it works to overcome the increased load placed on it. Fringe benefit is more top end. There's also a good chance you'll start breaking stuff from the massive amounts of torque the dual 11s can dish out, but that just means you're finding the absolute limits of the machine - _i.e._, you're drag racing.

Not many people have been able to try this, but the ones who have go really, really, fast. Think about it: Rocket has one gear, a chain drive from motor to rear wheel, that is geared to put it in the neighborhood of 200mph - with a relatively low rpm 13" GE motor! The problems for most people are batteries - they can't pull the kind of amps the motor(s) will without killing their pack. Next is chassis and tire. Not many EV drag racers have/had a chassis that can put the torque into the track. Small tire - up in smoke. Street chassis - torque can't be applied safely.

I disagree with the idea of Warp Factor II being a 9-second car. I don't see any reason that car shouldn't run 8s.


----------



## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> I don't see any reason that car shouldn't run 8s.


I too believe he should do '8 but with higher volts.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

albano said:


> I too believe he should do '8 but with higher volts.


Agreed, I was thinking of a 300+ volt pack.


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Seems to be leaving pretty nice to me, and a 1.48sec 60ft isn't bad. I can't remember what the 60ft was on the 11.2 pass?
> 
> One thing to remember is that when a bar-n-slick vehicle is working right it will look sort of anti-climactic off the line, because the majority of the energy is being converted into forward motion. The snatch you feel in the driver's seat, and the 60ft numbers, should say otherwise. Ultimate examples are T/F, F/C, P/S, P/S Bike. When they get the chassis tune-up right they just squirt off the line, with minimal body motion. In close, or in slow-mo, you can see the weight transfer until it gets on the bars, and the slicks wrinkle hard as the tires bite. I see that starting to happen in the latest Warp Factor video. Chassis setup is working much better.


Can't argue that it isn't better - I just think he could easily be hitting 1.2 or better.

In terms of gearing, I think he should have started with at least 3.00:1 maybe even 2.80. The guys with 9" motors and drag radials are using 3.25 - 3.55.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

kek_63 said:


> Can't argue that it isn't better - I just think he could easily be hitting 1.2 or better...


Agree 100% there. I would be _hunting_ for a 1.1 or even a 1.0 in that car.





kek_63 said:


> ...In terms of gearing, I think he should have started with at least 3.00:1 maybe even 2.80. The guys with 9" motors and drag radials are using 3.25 - 3.55.


Agreed again. I don't know if anyone makes anything below 3.00 that is strong enough. There are factory gear sets in the 2.?? range, but they'll pop with that much torque. The Gear Vendors unit might be able to help there though.

It's a difficult adjustment, coming from ICE drag racing, to think the opposite of what would work in ICE, but I really believe 3.00 gears would make that Camaro jump off the line like a Rottweiler bit it in the azz. Again, the caveat is those siamese 11s, with a stiff LiPo pack, and that much tire, are going to put some major stress on everything from the motor shaft back to the wheel studs, if it's setup to draw maximum current from the pack.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> Seems to be leaving pretty nice to me, and a 1.48sec 60ft isn't bad. I can't remember what the 60ft was on the 11.2 pass?
> 
> One thing to remember is that when a bar-n-slick vehicle is working right it will look sort of anti-climactic off the line, because the majority of the energy is being converted into forward motion. The snatch you feel in the driver's seat, and the 60ft numbers, should say otherwise. Ultimate examples are T/F, F/C, P/S, P/S Bike. When they get the chassis tune-up right they just squirt off the line, with minimal body motion. In close, or in slow-mo, you can see the weight transfer until it gets on the bars, and the slicks wrinkle hard as the tires bite. I see that starting to happen in the latest Warp Factor video. Chassis setup is working much better.
> 
> ...


The 60' on the 11.2 pass was 1.5 seconds. We are still discussing gearing, I launch with a 3.25 gear, on Saturday when I try the Gear Vendors I will finish with a 2.55 gear. Depending on where the rpm's are when I hit the finish line will direct our next change in gearing. It might be possible to go up to 3.55 gears, we will see. The OD unit will improve the 10.4 time, no doubt, but the big change will come when I remove the 500lbs of batteries and install a 250lb pack. The new pack will be lighter, produce the same amps, but my voltage will be increased to 340 volts.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> One thing to remember is that when a bar-n-slick vehicle is working right it will look sort of anti-climactic off the line, because the majority of the energy is being converted into forward motion. The snatch you feel in the driver's seat, and the 60ft numbers, should say otherwise. Ultimate examples are T/F, F/C, P/S, P/S Bike. When they get the chassis tune-up right they just squirt off the line, with minimal body motion. In close, or in slow-mo, you can see the weight transfer until it gets on the bars, and the slicks wrinkle hard as the tires bite. I see that starting to happen in the latest Warp Factor video. Chassis setup is working much better.


When I launched the front wheels stayed on the ground this time, the car was to "soft" in the front suspension. We lowered the car, but needed to adjust the front coil springs and nitro shocks. The car will be much stiffer in the front on Saturday.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

In regards to gearing you must match the power band of my motors. 1rpm to about 3500rpms, The 3.25 gear finishes over 3500 rpms, the OD unit will bring the rpms back into the sweat spot. You always want the highest gear ratio on launch that will allow you to use your powerband right to the end of the 1/4 mile.

If I could use 4.11's the car would pull the wheels for the whole 1/8 mile, but die afterwords.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

If leaky shocks lower the car too much, doesn't that mean you need stiffer and/or longer springs, or is the car designed to use the shocks as front suspension?


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> In regards to gearing you must match the power band of my motors. 1rpm to about 3500rpms, The 3.25 gear finishes over 3500 rpms, the OD unit will bring the rpms back into the sweat spot. You always want the highest gear ratio on launch that will allow you to use your powerband right to the end of the 1/4 mile.
> 
> If I could use 4.11's the car would pull the wheels for the whole 1/8 mile, but die afterwords.


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Agree 100% there. I would be _hunting_ for a 1.1 or even a 1.0 in that car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mercedes Benz builds some very low ratio diffs. E 420 stock runs 2.25/1 . The AMG's of 500-700 hp run somewhere between 2.25/1 to 3/1 . Aircraft grade bearing are standard on even lower power units . I understand the low ratios are stronger and efficient also .they make 3 size units , the low numbers are only done on the largest units for V8's and V12's .


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

DavidDymaxion said:


> If leaky shocks lower the car too much, doesn't that mean you need stiffer and/or longer springs, or is the car designed to use the shocks as front suspension?


Shocks are design to slow the motion of your suspension. Afco Nitrogen shocks are built with a bladder, when empty the dimensions are off. The front springs are correct, but the motion was too "easy" which caused the car to "bounce" downward and scrape on heavy braking. That is now fixed.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> ...I don't know if anyone makes anything below 3.00 that is strong enough. There are factory gear sets in the 2.?? range, but they'll pop with that much torque...





aeroscott said:


> Mercedes Benz builds some very low ratio diffs. E 420 stock runs 2.25/1 . The AMG's of 500-700 hp run somewhere between 2.25/1 to 3/1 . Aircraft grade bearing are standard on even lower power units . I understand the low ratios are stronger and efficient also .they make 3 size units , the low numbers are only done on the largest units for V8's and V12's .


I was referring to aftermarket companies that produce drag racing equipment and parts. There may be factory stuff that's designed to handle big horsepower, but drag racing places a shock load and stress on parts that the factory never intended.

Today, I found out that Strange Engineering does indeed have gear sets in the range I, and maybe some other, racers need. There's a 1400hp 69 Barracuda getting ready to make a 320mph assault on the Bonneville salt flats, and it's running 2.30:1 ratio gears from Strange. I don't see them in the online catalog, so they're either new or custom (which means expensive). The important part, to me, is they're available, from a proven source.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

I was going to mention the land speed folks and that they must get their gears from somewhere.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

saw somewhere on this forum a guy in quebec was making racing diffs with a 2.30 minimum. However with impending CRS. I forget where. The search function didn't return any hits.


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Gearvenders shows double over drives in line for salt lake runs .


----------



## exile (Oct 25, 2008)

Why not field weakening resistor and relay instead of over drive unit? It is cheap, light and easy to changes "ration" on.
If you use uC ,mosfet and resistor you should almost get constant power after "sweet point". 

Or did I miss something?


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

exile said:


> Why not field weakening resistor and relay instead of over drive unit? It is cheap, light and easy to changes "ration" on.
> If you use uC ,mosfet and resistor you should almost get constant power after "sweet point".
> 
> Or did I miss something?


Ron's motor speed limitations are not based on battery or controller limitations, but rather on the physical rpm limits of the motors themselves.


----------



## exile (Oct 25, 2008)

kek_63 said:


> Ron's motor speed limitations are not based on battery or controller limitations, but rather on the physical rpm limits of the motors themselves.


Yes, but adding field weakening resistor you change motor parameter. 
Field weakening resistor will lower EMF and so you can draw more current through motor. But torque/current will be less, similar to gear change.

Or do you mean it can't handle more 4000rpm because force?


----------



## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

exile said:


> Yes, but adding field weakening resistor you change motor parameter.
> Field weakening resistor will lower EMF and so you can draw more current through motor. But torque/current will be less, similar to gear change.
> 
> Or do you mean it can't handle more 4000rpm because force?


You're probably right, I was incorrectly recalling lower physical limits - the factory redline is 5000rpm on those 11" motors - as prepped race motors they can likely be run up to at least 6000 before they grenade.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sorry guys, will have to wait till this Saturday to get results on Warp Factor racing with overdrive. Long story, but one of my drivers had a family issue, I needed to deliver a house to PA. I never made it to Lebanon Valley on Saturday.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I guess I geared her right! 
___________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9psoOXNbx2k 

60' - 1.48 
1/8 - 6.33 @ 107.60 mph 
1/4 - 10.08 @ 127.75 mph 

Fastest EV Drag Car in the USA!


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*Winter plans!*


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Ron makes Autoblog!

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/12/electric-chevy-camaro-tears-down-1-4-mile-in-10-08-seconds/


----------



## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

bakes said:


> Just wondering how quick is the gear vendor's shift from low to high?


Considering our Series/Parallel shift takes 0.3 seconds from power off to power on, and we initiate the shift to OD at the same point the Zilla calls for S/P shift, I can tell you the Gear Vendors units shifts way faster than that. When the Zilla cuts power we can feel the front end drop (about 0.1 second of that), then I hear the contactors change states (click click, another 0.1 second of that), then there is the final checks before the Zilla determines all contactors are in the right state for power up (about 0.1 more second) then power up and throws head back in the seat.

I can tell you before that first 0.1 second elapses and the front end sets down, the GV unit is already shifted. Without any precise measurements I would say the GV shifts in <0.10 seconds. 

I've shifted the GV manually without the S/P shift. Its a pretty rough but firm shift. But its nothing like running 450KW and turnning it off for 0.3 second and then turning it back on. I would say the shock of the GV shift is absorbed in the drive line when power is off for the S/P shift. The jolt I see is mainly from the S/P shift, and that alone is more brutal than the GV shift.

Mike


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have felt the "bang" of many transmissions in my years of drag racing. Try a big block/powerglide and 4:56's in the rear, the shift will snap your head and lay 10' posi marks. I am very satisfied with the smooth "bang" of the Gear Vendors OD Unit, I thought it would be a harder hit, but it changes quick and smooth. I would recommend the unit to all.


----------



## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have felt the "bang" of many transmissions in my years of drag racing. Try a big block/powerglide and 4:56's in the rear, the shift will snap your head and lay 10' posi marks. I am very satisfied with the smooth "bang" of the Gear Vendors OD Unit, I thought it would be a harder hit, but it changes quick and smooth. I would recommend the unit to all.


I just wish they had a little bigger split in the ratios. Are you using a stock unit with a 0.78:1 ratio or one of their new dual shift units which gets closer to a 0.61:1 ratio? Ultimately a 0.5:1 split would even be better.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

electrabishi said:


> I just wish they had a little bigger split in the ratios. Are you using a stock unit with a 0.78:1 ratio or one of their new dual shift units which gets closer to a 0.61:1 ratio? Ultimately a 0.5:1 split would even be better.


I am using the stock unit 0.75:1 ratio, I did not know they had a dual shift unit, pretty cool. I have wired it manually to a button on my steering wheel, much easier to shift at different points to see what works best.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

In drag racing you always look for the highest ratio thats works with your set-up to launch, and finish at your lowest ratio. With low voltage motors, changing gears twice would be a plus and create more speed and possibly a better ET. When running a HV motor set-up, one gear change might be just enough. This is the ticket for electric racing, setting up your suspension and driveline to gain the most performance, I feel like a teen again building my first hotrod. LOL.


----------



## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am using the stock unit 0.75:1 ratio, I did not know they had a dual shift unit, pretty cool. I have wired it manually to a button on my steering wheel, much easier to shift at different points to see what works best.


The new unit is actually just two stock planetaries ganged together. Its not really two different ratios since they shift at the same time. But it gives the user a higher ratio split to overdrive if needed. On mine that would be (0.78 x 0.78):1 or 0.61:1.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

electrabishi said:


> The new unit is actually just two stock planetaries ganged together. Its not really two different ratios since they shift at the same time. But it gives the user a higher ratio split to overdrive if needed. On mine that would be (0.78 x 0.78):1 or 0.61:1.


Okay Mike, thank you for the info. I must dig into their website and complete some DD. It's nice to have a civil conversation with you, I hope we can continue.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Okay Mike, thank you for the info. I must dig into their website and complete some DD. It's nice to have a civil conversation with you, I hope we can continue.


I'm looking fwd to see Warp Factor II at EVCONN. Jack indicated that the purse for fastest car needed to be a "street legal in the US" car. Is that accurate or? I hope more race cars show up to this event.

When do you expect to have your new battery??


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> I'm looking fwd to see Warp Factor II at EVCONN. Jack indicated that the purse for fastest car needed to be a "street legal in the US" car. Is that accurate or? I hope more race cars show up to this event.
> 
> When do you expect to have your new battery??


I seen Jack's post, I think it is a typo. I am sure no EV Drag Car needs to be street legal. I will ask Jack to clarify on the board. I can always slap a dealer plate on my Camaro! LOL


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> When do you expect to have your new battery??


In the next week, hopefully. I will try and build the pack as quick as possible to make the event, if the cells arrive too late, I will race with my current pack.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I seen Jack's post, I think it is a typo. I am sure no EV Drag Car needs to be street legal. I will ask Jack to clarify on the board. I can always slap a dealer plate on my Camaro! LOL


He might be trying to interest non purpose built cars in having a little race. Since yours will probably be the only real drag car attending it wouldn't be much of a competition.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> He might be trying to interest non purpose built cars in having a little race. Since yours will probably be the only real drag car attending it wouldn't be much of a competition.


You have a point. Offering the purse to stock drag cars would create a bigger venue. I think the purse should be split into classes, so everyone can enjoy a little jingle?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Depends on how many cars are involved but he probably wants to keep things simple.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Depends on how many cars are involved but he probably wants to keep things simple.


He could still keep it simple by offering a purse for two classes, one street legal, one complete drag car. Split the purse?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Depends on how many cars are involved but he probably wants to keep things simple.


Are you attending the event?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> He could still keep it simple by offering a purse for two classes, one street legal, one complete drag car. Split the purse?


I think you'll be the only complete drag car, so what would be the point?
No I won't be making it, as much as I'd like to, can't justify the time or expense.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> I think you'll be the only complete drag car, so what would be the point?
> No I won't be making it, as much as I'd like to, can't justify the time or expense.


That is not the case, I have spoken with many NEDRA members that are planning on racing. A few with drag cars, and a few with street legal cars. It's funny, I trade emails with many from NEDRA, but they ask our relationships be kept silent (no names) because they do not want to be harassed by some. One of my good friends is Dennis Berube, I have been using his hairball from Current Eliminator all season, he is a very honorable guy. Not all NEDRA members hate ECEDRA, it would be nice for both organizations to allow each parties to discuss builds on each others forums.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If you aren't the only drag car then yes it would make sense to have two classes.


----------

