# Logisystems - Status?



## tc.burns (Jan 2, 2010)

Does anyone have any updates on Logisystems? I have just 10 miles on my S10 EV with a new Logisystems 156V controller and it seemed to get too hot - so they asked me to send it back to be checked out. That was 4 weeks ago and now I can't get them to return my calls. So now I am stuck without anything! I have seen some posts on adapting a water cooling system using chiller plates / etc to help cool these controllers from the outside. I would like to at least try that but I need to get my controller back first. And I really need to get this thing on the road!

I am tempted to travel down to visit them in person (from Minnesota) to pick it up but I am afraid they aren't even in business anymore. Is there anyone in the Odessa, TX area that can confirm they are still in business and maybe could stop by and pick up my controller and send it back to me? 

I have been thinking (worst case) that I may need to purchase a replacement (assuming I never see this one again). The problem is what to purchase, I would prefer a Zilla but they have stopped production (again) and the new Netgain Warp-drives won't be available until September. If I am going to spend $1500 -$2000 again, I would like to have a controller that can be controlled via a PC or external interface.

Help!!!


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Oh man another one falls victim to Logisystems beast. They screwed me over too used mine for hardware and sent it back unrepaired. I thought about getting everyone together suing them with a class action lawsuit but not enough people replied but this is not to say they haven't gypped enough people. Maybe you and I and couple others should drive down there and teach em a lesson 

In the meantime I suggest you not waste more money on another motor controller and try doing experiments on building your own its not as a hard as you may think. Controllers only have about three main components in the power section that is freewheeling diodes, transistors of some kind, and capacitors. That's all that's in that Logisystem btw that and their analog "micro" that should be outside the box not inside never. Check out all of Jack Bauer's posts on here. I don't know if BlackpantherSt's motor controller worked for him but with a little improvements on his design it definitely worked for me. I too have liquid cooling its just a fuel pump, transmission cooler, and brake line that was a little bigger than the space between the heat sink fins press fit into the heatsink works like a motherf%**kin champ!


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## tc.burns (Jan 2, 2010)

Snakub said:


> Check out all of Jack Bauer's posts on here. I don't know if BlackpantherSt's motor controller worked for him but with a little improvements on his design it definitely worked for me. I too have liquid cooling its just a fuel pump, transmission cooler, and brake line that was a little bigger than the space between the heat sink fins press fit into the heatsink works like a motherf%**kin champ!


Thanks for the reply and the info... Since I thought the Logisystems controller was going to work for me, I haven't thought too much about building my own - but since I have built most everything else for this S10 EV project - why not do this as well. I have done a fair amount of soldering on perf boards for PIC based projects I have built over the years so I believe I could handle this task. I like the idea of being able to "over" build this controller with ample liquid cooling / etc so I wouldn't have to worry about heat ever again! 

I am interested in the "improvements" you reference in your design. Is this something you could share? Also, is there someplace I can go for a jumpstart into this effort - so I don't need to spend a bunch of time searching around for enough details. How much do you think I would have to spend to get something workable? My EV platform is a 1998 S10 with 18 - 8V Trojan batteries (144V). I have a 9" Netgain motor hooked directly up to the 5 speed manual transmission. 

Thanks again!


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2010)

> .......building your own its not as a hard as you may think.


Well if it were that easy then the Logisystems controller should work just fine. I suspect that building one is much harder than you make it out to be. If it were that easy there would also be lots of kits too to make it even easier. Easy, nope. Doable yes with the right information and abilities to piece it together. One problem is that most folks don't properly heat sink their controllers and just fry them up and over volt them and over amp them too. 

Pete 

I agree that the Logisystem controller needs a major makeover or just refund all the buyers and quit trying to build controllers.


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## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

One guy got an open revolt control board and put it in his logisystems controller, and for the last few days it's working well for him. He lowered his gate resistors down from 200 Ohm to like 30 Ohm due to excessive heating.http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/paul-sabrinas-cheap-diy-144v-motor-controller-6404-358.html#post184499


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I tried bus bars in the beginning on the transistors and then the first one in the row blew up twice leaving the other four perfectly fine so I just have separate wires now for each one all the same length and it seems to have solved the balance issue and I have five separate wires going to the two ohm resistors then the gates. I tried to stay away from soldering as much as I could in the power section so everything I got was screw terminal including the diodes which I don't know the part # off hand but it was made by powerex too and the driver for the gates of the transistors is a solid state relay that is screw terminal the arduino micro sends a signal to the optoisolated side and sends positive juice to the gates but I don't think it is quite sensitive enough so I will probably be replacing it with a chassis mount mosfet that is screw terminal it will be driven with a mosfet driver ucc27322 and on this chip I don't think you have to connect the grounds ( some people on here might correct me if I am wrong on that) so that will provide isolation between the power section and micro. But there is a downside to using the Ks621k30 that is you have to have a big battery or dc converter to power the gates if you don't give them enough current they will blow up . So right now my traction pack ground is connected to my chassis ground and I need something to isolate them maybe two switching circuits and a toroid of some sort?


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I just sent my controller in to Logisystems to have them repair it. They are not answering their toll free number, but they are answering their commercial line. That is 432-381-6000. 

I asked them about the repair time on my controller. They said it's on hold because they have not received the parts they need that they ordered from one of their parts suppliers. The lady said they ordered the parts months ago and the supplier told them it may be months before they get their parts. She said that it could be months before they start repair work on my controller. She said she would call me when they do the repair. 

So it sounds like Logisystem is having a major parts-supply problem.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I have heard from a number of people that bought Logisystems that they have had a "parts" problem for sometime and that was about a year ago or one case was they just kept sending back controllers that would blow up again and again hoping the customer would get tired and give up. When I took it apart there is not much in there. I couldn't even find a data sheet on the mosfet so its like they went with the cheapest parts they could find no wonder they can't find parts for it because they don't want to pay $3 for quality fet instead they probably want to buy one from Thailand some where for 13 cents a piece . Here is the mosfet # GB30B60K can anyone here find it? On my ehem "1000" amp model there were only about 24 mosfets vs. the curtis's 50 mosfets. They can only get away with this if we let them!


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

they told me the same thing, waiting for parts, I was lucky and got mine back after a month, and 2 months later.................. oh the suspence....................

it is still working well, but I mounted a big heatsink to the bottom, and a high out put fan. + 2 more high output fans on top, I gets barly 100 degrees on the hottest day here in phoenix, so for now Im good, Im not using it at max rated voltage I dont know if that helps or not.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Hmm you put the fan on the bottom? That might not do much because their heat sink is on top of the controller. I might be misreading your post though. If I am right I wonder how much cooler it would get with the heatsink on top?


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

Snakub said:


> Hmm you put the fan on the bottom? That might not do much because their heat sink is on top of the controller. I might be misreading your post though. If I am right I wonder how much cooler it would get with the heatsink on top?


 
yep on the bottom i bolted a heat sink, my LS looks like a curtis, only silver, same style housing, it is shown on my blog. the fan on the bottom is a puller, I dont know if it is helping but I think that the 2 on top blow heat down and the 1 on the bottom pulls it from the bottom heat sink, that is how LS recommended I do it, it seems to be working (for now) time will tell, and i have a back up controller, just in case.


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## tc.burns (Jan 2, 2010)

If I ever see mine again, I am thinking about doing some type of liquid cooling (water) using chiller plates. I saw some posts where this was being tried. Here is a link to a Cold Plate that I have been looking at: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cold-Plate-sing...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5884b87669

Has anyone done this type of cooling on these controllers already? Is it more effective than fins / air cooling?

Thanks!


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## dexion (Aug 22, 2009)

Bill,

Did you put 2 of those compaq server fans I posted up a while back? I have 3 running myself 2 on the controller (not a peep from it works fine when its cooled well 4000+ miles on it now) and one on the bottom as well with a spacer pulling from the controller and also blowing right on the brushes of the warp9 (cant hurt.) 

The controller never sees more than about 100F and the brush temp went from 156F to 135f when I get home according to my $12 infra-red ebay thermometer. Seems like cooling is the missing link for the controllers. I however run my 156V at 155V under load (lifepo4's) so its right at spec there but I limit it to 500 motor amps (its a 750.)


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

I had an old 72 volt 550 amp controller and when used as is it heated up fast and went into thermal cutback. I then decided to try a 3" thick plate of aluminum that was larger than the controller for cooling. I was able to go a bit further but still that large thick hunk of aluminum heated up quickly and was unable to dissipate the heat fast enough away from the controller. I then purchased a nice thick based finned aluminum heat sink and installed it and tried again. It did a whole bunch better but still it was not enough. I then purchased a nice large fan and hooked it up and set it up to be on all the time. It never once got hot enough to go into thermal cut back after that. It is not that the cooling is a missing link it is the builder thinking they don't really need it. I just wanted to see what it would take to have a good sink. The cheapest ones that WORK are the aluminum finned heat sinks with a large fan. A single pass water cooled sink may not be enough. A multi pass one should do just fine but it brings more complexity to the build but I would like to try one. My Synkro has built in air cooling with a nice finned heat sink internally vented to the outside. 

Pete


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## dexion (Aug 22, 2009)

Correct thats a better way to say it than I did. It has to be there unless you are in the arctic i suppose. The fans that were supplied just didnt seem up to the task.


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## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

Actually, aren't they IGBTs? At least in one Logisystems controller they are.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

dexion said:


> Bill,
> 
> Did you put 2 of those compaq server fans I posted up a while back? I have 3 running myself 2 on the controller (not a peep from it works fine when its cooled well 4000+ miles on it now) and one on the bottom as well with a spacer pulling from the controller and also blowing right on the brushes of the warp9 (cant hurt.)
> 
> The controller never sees more than about 100F and the brush temp went from 156F to 135f when I get home according to my $12 infra-red ebay thermometer. Seems like cooling is the missing link for the controllers. I however run my 156V at 155V under load (lifepo4's) so its right at spec there but I limit it to 500 motor amps (its a 750.)


 
the 2 on top are 200cfm, fans that came with the kelly assembly that I got, the other one is a 200 cfm that I got from frys electronics, I dont know if it helps but it couldent hurt.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

MPaulHolmes said:


> Actually, aren't they IGBTs? At least in one Logisystems controller they are.


 
I believe the new LS controllers are IGBT based. I think mine is as well from talking to LS.


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## voltmatic automaton (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey there, haven't been on this forum for a bit as i was over doing some of the open revolt thread.

ok, so so far, i was able to remove the very poorly designed logisystems control board , you may be surprised but the power stage of the LS seems nicely laid out . the old board has 7 pins that are all soldered in a row and are really super easy to remove.

so, now you have the power stage of a controller left over, with heat sinks and a case and everything. since you only need 2 wires to connect the control board to the power stage the only labor intensive part is making the control board. (about 90 minutes if you have the parts and a soldering iron)

so order the parts (all told about $80), provided you make your list and check eveything is available before buying from mouser and digikey you should have your parts relatively quickly. oh how about the controller board, well thats $18.

the case design of the LS won't let you install the board inside, but thats not necessary anyway, just go with what the zilla designers did and keep them as seperate modules  i made it so mine connects thru the controller from the outside...i'll post pics soon.

so any issues, yes the heat. i did step down the gate resistors as directed by the folks on the revolt thread, it was better but still not letting me do more than 50mph for more than a few miles before the overheat indicator would kick in (don't even get me started on the RTD explorer software, trust me you would spend a mint on what the open revolt guys have been able to achieve)

so to fix the heat i got some diodes and resistors to help turn on and turn off speed, should have that running by saturday.

cooling is always going to be an issue, i may also have to go with high output fans, we will see.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Voltmatic automaton were your mosfets blown on your logisystem? If so what did you replace them with? If the LS controller gets this hot this fast I question the efficiency of it sometimes when it was in my truck it would get so hot it looked like it was sizzling. Why use it at all if its this inefficient? I guess its just the principle of the thing  and if you are going to use it put the heatsink on top the bottom is not connected to anything all you have to do is get longer screws and use the heatsink as a spacer.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Tc burns the cold plate looks ok but not for the money. The brake line I pushed into the fins of the heat sink works really does work great and you would probably have to reengineer the cold plate anyway. When I first set up the liquid cooling before I had a radiator I put some ice cubes in my reservoir and they fully melted after about 10 miles or so. What I am planning to do now is get a bigger radiator make a heat sink that wraps around the warp9 like steel band motor mount weld tubes going around the fins and run antifreeze through it too. Why didn't they do this to begin with? Price? Should I have to do this? Is it normal for a Warp9 motor to be 190 F after highway driving? How hot do your motors get?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

voltmatic automaton said:


> ...since you only need 2 wires to connect the control board to the power stage...


That means the gate driver chip (probably something in the TC44xx family) is located on the control board when it needs to be as close as possible to the gates it is driving. If the wiring gets too long a resonant circuit is formed between the capacitance of the IGBT gates and the inductance of the wiring, leading to destructive gate overvoltage. Also, the gate driver won't be able to clamp Miller charge from turning the gate on when it's supposed to be off.

The maximum length and/or minimum gate resistance to prevent ringing can be calculated using the 20nH/in. rule of thumb for inductance. Generally you pick the gate resistor to achieve a specific turn-on and turn-off time so you arrange the equation to calculate the maximum length of wire allowed between the gate and driver. As an example, in the Soliton1 I needed to use a 1.5 ohm gate resistor for each IGBT module to achieve the desired transition time of 300ns. This restricted the maximum length of the gate drive wiring to 1.05". Each IGBT module in the Soliton1 gets its very own driver because of this requirement.

If you have to make the distance between gate and driver longer then you have to use a higher value gate resistor which means you have to settle for longer transition times. This leads to the IGBTs spending more time in the "linear" region which makes them run hot and usually destroys them, since they aren't designed to operate in their linear region. Indeed, many IGBT datasheets specifically warn against trying to use them for linear applications (e.g. - as amplifiers).

It is, of course, also very important to ensure that each IGBT in a parallel-connected string has an equal path length for the gate drive circuit.



voltmatic automaton said:


> the case design of the LS won't let you install the board inside, but thats not necessary anyway, just go with what the zilla designers did and keep them as seperate modules  i made it so mine connects thru the controller from the outside...i'll post pics soon.


Not quite... the gate drivers for the Zillas (and there are multiple ones spaced along the length of the board, as is proper) are inside the main box while just a microcontroller and i/o stuff is inside the hairball.

Do you have at least a cheap handheld LCD scope to look at the signal at the IGBT gates? I've heard good things from a local electronic parts supplier about this very inexpensive Velleman scope: HPS10.


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## voltmatic automaton (Nov 2, 2008)

So from what you're saying my current setup is not quite as good as it should be?

the diagram has the essentials of what i have done.
from your description it looks like the connecting cable may be way too long or causing other problems yes?

the gate resistors are on the power board but all the pertinent control stuff is linked by that cable.

if so i'm gonna have to rewire the board inside the case...which is not that difficult as the casing can have the board mounted underneath, just need to put spacers in.

and it was working pretty well too. just the heat was a problem.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Here are a few pictures of my setup. I don't really think it would be this bulky if it weren't for the capacitors. They looked a lot smaller from the pictures I saw on ebay


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## captain stone (Dec 21, 2010)

tc.burns said:


> Does anyone have any updates on Logisystems? I have just 10 miles on my S10 EV with a new Logisystems 156V controller and it seemed to get too hot - so they asked me to send it back to be checked out. That was 4 weeks ago and now I can't get them to return my calls. So now I am stuck without anything! I have seen some posts on adapting a water cooling system using chiller plates / etc to help cool these controllers from the outside. I would like to at least try that but I need to get my controller back first. And I really need to get this thing on the road!
> 
> I am tempted to travel down to visit them in person (from Minnesota) to pick it up but I am afraid they aren't even in business anymore. Is there anyone in the Odessa, TX area that can confirm they are still in business and maybe could stop by and pick up my controller and send it back to me?
> 
> ...


 Hello I have the same problem with my new 156v controller as well,(smoked after 80 miles)I think there is a major problem with them .and he (Jim) dosnt know what to do ,instead of communicating with his customers they screen their calls,and just dont answer. I did call from another phone and got his wife(answering service) and was told techs were not available,left amessage with her to have someone call me back and still no response.went to google maps and got a street view of there "Buisness" (house and junkyard) maybe we should start a class action lawsuit to get our money back. and move on to a better company.


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## captain stone (Dec 21, 2010)

m38mike said:


> I just sent my controller in to Logisystems to have them repair it. They are not answering their toll free number, but they are answering their commercial line. That is 432-381-6000.
> 
> I asked them about the repair time on my controller. They said it's on hold because they have not received the parts they need that they ordered from one of their parts suppliers. The lady said they ordered the parts months ago and the supplier told them it may be months before they get their parts. She said that it could be months before they start repair work on my controller. She said she would call me when they do the repair.
> 
> So it sounds like Logisystem is having a major parts-supply problem.


 I think there going out of buisness and no controller yet 1700 Bucks GONE !!!!!!!!LAWSUIT TIME IS HERE


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## tc.burns (Jan 2, 2010)

I am sorry to hear about your Logisystems controller issues. I had a similar experience when I sent mine back for repair - it took nearly 2 months to get it back - and I kept trying to reach them as well. When I finally did get mine back, I was surprised to see that it still seemed to get hot after only driving a few miles (165+ degrees F). And after going through the return / wait process, I decided to build a cooling system so I wouldn't have to worry about it again. 

Following are the major activities I went though to create a cooling system for my 156V controller:

1) Purchased a 3/4 aluminum plate from a metal scrap dealer.
2) Cut down to the size of the top of the controller.
3) Used a lathe to bore 4 passages lengthwise through the plate.
4) Tapped the ends and installed pipe nipples.
5) Drilled 8 holes that matched up with the existing fan mounting holes in the top of the controller. 
6) Coated the top of the controller with heat sink compound and then used threaded rods to attach the plate to the top of the controller. I also re-installed the fans (more for looks than any real cooling value).
7) Used the original heater core from the S10 and enclosed it with light gauge aluminum plating so I could mount the blower fan.
8) Purchased a 12V DC blower fan from an electronics surplus supplier and mounted to the heater core enclosure.
9) Found a good 1GPM pump that I could use to distribute the coolant. 
10) Mounted the pump to a plate and then installed behind the grill.
11) I created an expansion tank with PVC pipes / end caps.
12) Then I hooked all the hoses together and wired up the relays / fan / pump.

I was REALLY surprised when I first tested the new system. I would stop about every 5 miles and check the controller temp with an IR temp gauge - as well as feeling it with my hand. Even after 20 miles, the controller was only warm to the touch and the highest heat value was around 90 deg F. I have now driven the S10 more than 400 miles with this new cooling system and it works great! I am not longer worried about controller heat issues. Also, with a cooler running controller - I don't notice any performance degradation as I did previously when the unit would get hot.

I hope this info and the following pics help provide some hope for you that you can overcome the issues you are facing.


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## Bruce A (Jul 17, 2008)

tc.burns said:


> I am sorry to hear about your Logisystems controller issues. I had a similar experience when I sent mine back for repair - it took nearly 2 months to get it back - and I kept trying to reach them as well. When I finally did get mine back, I was surprised to see that it still seemed to get hot after only driving a few miles (165+ degrees F). And after going through the return / wait process, I decided to build a cooling system so I wouldn't have to worry about it again.
> 
> Following are the major activities I went though to create a cooling system for my 156V controller:
> 
> ...


 
That is a nice clean job an it makes sense to keep it cool, that is probably why the higher end controllers are liquid cooled .


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bruce A said:


> That is a nice clean job an it makes sense to keep it cool, that is probably why the higher end controllers are liquid cooled .


You can't beat liquid cooling when it comes to getting rid of loads of heat, but unless you either drive a heavy vehicle or "suffer" from a heavy right foot (like I do ) water cooling shouldn't be necessary. However, with tc.burns experiences I can't really blame him for the overkill and I'd probably have done the same...

I'm curious though, how much did it cost to build that cooling system?


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## tc.burns (Jan 2, 2010)

Regarding the cost of my controller cooling system, here are some rough costs for the materials:

- Aluminum - $25 from metal supplier (drops)
- 1 GPM SHURflo pump - $60 from Northern Tool
- Blower Fan (6") - $15 from electronic surplus store
- PVC for expansion tank - $5
- Hoses - $15 (used braided washing machine hose for the tight bends)
- Relay / Wiring / Misc - $15

- Heater core (radiator) - Free - taken from S10

Total - $135 

Very reasonable to me for "piece of mind" and worry free driving! 

The toughest part of the project was "drilling" straight passages though the aluminum plate - but the lathe made that easier. Now that we have things setup for the lathe - we could make more - if anyone is interested, let me know...


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I am down with a lawsuit as I have said before and I have sued them in small claims and won. Before the case Jim said that he was going to let me win and then defend himself in real court with attorneys that he had on retainer and a month later no lawyers what a surprise. He also made a bunch of other bogus claims like how he gave my controller to Jon at grassrootsev (the dealer) for free as a promo and I should really take the matter up with him and that he couldn't even pay me back 1500, which I was willing to settle for, because he had to send his little orphan that was left on his doorstep through college lmfao. Despite all his little shenanigans I called his little bluff and I have an exemplified copy of my judgement and the necessary papers for garnishment I just need to no where he banks anyone know how to figure that out?


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

So how much have you spent suing him? Including your time and gas and food out as needed. I'd have sued for all that. He is like the typical BSer and he will stall enough and in the end you usually spend more than the injunction and he still has not paid you a dime. It's pretty typical here in the US. You sue, you win but you still get nothing. So what's the purpose of suing then? Can't squeeze a dry lemon.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

> So how much have you spent suing him? Including your time and gas and food out as needed. I'd have sued for all that. He is like the typical BSer and he will stall enough and in the end you usually spend more than the injunction and he still has not paid you a dime. It's pretty typical here in the US. You sue, you win but you still get nothing. So what's the purpose of suing then? Can't squeeze a dry lemon.


Encouraging words indeed way to spread your wisdom and enlightenment here on this forum so helpful! Thank YOU good sir for all your positivity!
Seriously have YOU ever stood up for yourself? You were probably twirlied in high school or shoved in a locker!and no I have only spent $27 in court costs and the court is right down the street from my house and I have spent no money on gas because I drive an ELECTRIC VEHICLE!


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

Snakub said:


> Encouraging words indeed way to spread your wisdom and enlightenment here on this forum so helpful! Thank YOU good sir for all your positivity!
> Seriously have YOU ever stood up for yourself? You were probably twirlied in high school or shoved in a locker!and no I have only spent $27 in court costs and the court is right down the street from my house and I have spent no money on gas because I drive an ELECTRIC VEHICLE!


Don't be an ass! I was serious and I am sooooo not sorry that the truth hurts. I do stand up for myself. 

Pete


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

You come on here don't have anything constructive to say, don't add anything to the discussion and just try and bring us all down and I'm the ass pffff...Try actually THINKING about a solution before you post because its a lot easier to sit back and lazily hurl criticisms then it is to be even the slightest bit helpful. see I can do it too


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

Get all the folks together and do a mass suit. Still can't squeeze a dry lemon. Hurling crap makes you the ass. What is your contribution? 

Sorry you got stiffed and screwed and still no positive outcome. I just speak the truth. What's the hope, to get some lemon juice from a dry lemon! I tell it how it is. Sure I could candy coat things but it won't change the facts. 

Sucks doesn't it?


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

I have had lots to offer. You!


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Like I said I have won a small claims case and proven that they don't really have lawyers or at least not ones on the level they claim and I said the only thing I need to know or anyone else needs to know in order to get their money back is where the people that run things at Logisystem ie. Marie and Jimmy Prosise bank. Then I have all the necessary forms to fill out which I am willing to share with anyone because texas requires them for out of state garnishment. How do the court clerks, judges, or lawyers figure it out?


> Get all the folks together and do a mass suit.


That's still nothing that hasn't already been said better by others here on this thread and the rest although slightly more apologetic is still just negativity.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2010)

Hire a PI.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Two ways to win judgements: after the initial small claims court action, one proceeds to ascertain what the defendant owns then go get it in small claims court summary actions. It is a hoot to have the judge make them empty out their pockets in court, then have the sheriff repo the car so they have to walk home . the other way is to throw money after bad and get a pricey expert lawyer or collections agency to collect for pennies on the dollar.

A trip to the local county clerk can give you data on any and all publicly held titles, a good law library can give you names of companies that search for "hidden" assets. File your own leins on everything including the leased car for about $10 usd a pop, garnish the tax returns, be evil and have a good time.

My $.02, your mileage will vary.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

Snakub said:


> I am down with a lawsuit as I have said before and I have sued them in small claims and won. Before the case Jim said that he was going to let me win and then defend himself in real court with attorneys that he had on retainer and a month later no lawyers what a surprise. He also made a bunch of other bogus claims like how he gave my controller to Jon at grassrootsev (the dealer) for free as a promo and I should really take the matter up with him and that he couldn't even pay me back 1500, which I was willing to settle for, because he had to send his little orphan that was left on his doorstep through college lmfao. Despite all his little shenanigans I called his little bluff and I have an exemplified copy of my judgement and the necessary papers for garnishment I just need to no where he banks anyone know how to figure that out?


Wouldn't it be easier if everyone got together and filed a class action suit against them? I'm currently fixing a car owned by an attorney with a failed Logisystems controller in it. If no one else steps up to the plate, I just may ask him. Does anyone else know of any class action against them?

- Paul


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

> Wouldn't it be easier if everyone got together and filed a class action suit against them


 I originally started a thread entitled Logisystem class action lawsuit but there were no takers so I just went off on my own. I was just looking for a way around having to hire an attorney but if it is his car that the controller blew up in then this is just what we need. If he does decide to sue where would you think court would be held?


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2010)

I think it would be better for a class action suit but you also must find him. If he is out of state then it will be much harder to prosecute and collect. Unfortunately that is the tough part of all this. Same for those who are trying to recover funds from fraudulent lithium battery sales. That one is more than worth being aggressive at collecting the funds and shutting this guy down for good. I think that the guy who was building and selling Logisystem controllers needs to be held accountable too. Do a class action suit and pitch in to hire a PI to get this guy and squeeze that dry lemon even further. 

Pete


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2010)

I believe that court would be held where the suit is filed. It would force him to show up there. So it may help draw him out of hiding. Tough to get much without hiring a lawyer. That is the reason for class action. Combined costs too, so costs are small for each person. The reason folks did not take the offer is because most work and just don't have the time or feel they have the time or feel their time is worth more than the loss. That is where I'd stand. I'd sue for a S..T load more than the controller. Can't join in because I am not personally involved but I'd be aggressive. It is no trivial deal. 

Pete


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Even if we take them to "real court" what are they going to do to recover the money when we win or will it be just like small claims where you have to do everything on your own?


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2010)

More than likely it will be small claims. Tough to do out of state. Dry lemons are a bitch. Been there done that. 

Pete


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## scientastic (Sep 15, 2008)

PZigouras said:


> Wouldn't it be easier if everyone got together and filed a class action suit against them?
> - Paul


I've got two people in Texas who would likely be willing to join a class action suit. Care to discuss the details further?


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## scientastic (Sep 15, 2008)

Snakub said:


> Like I said I have won a small claims case and proven that they don't really have lawyers or at least not ones on the level they claim and I said the only thing I need to know or anyone else needs to know in order to get their money back is where the people that run things at Logisystem ie. Marie and Jimmy Prosise bank. Then I have all the necessary forms to fill out which I am willing to share with anyone because texas requires them for out of state garnishment. How do the court clerks, judges, or lawyers figure it out?
> 
> That's still nothing that hasn't already been said better by others here on this thread and the rest although slightly more apologetic is still just negativity.


I would be greatly interested in your case and how to proceed against them. I would greatly appreciate it if you could share the details on how you filed and won. Would you be willing to share? Send me a private message.

Or again, if enough people want to join in, we'd potentially be interested in a class action suit.


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