# [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9996348-54.html

"SAN JOSE, Calif.--General Motors is teaming up with 30 utilities in 37
states and with the Electric Power Research Institute to develop a charging
infrastructure for electric cars."

Steve West



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmm, what does this mean?Will they control it and limit access?
Will it be the paddle charger?
Will they make it complex?

Are they full of it again?





> Stephen West <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9996348-54.html
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

They will do as needed to generate profit.
Such controls will enable EV electricity Road Taxes and surcharges.
The price at such charging stations will be usary.
You can bet it won't be 110/220 60Hz
Tom Meyers

Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids


> Hmm, what does this mean?Will they control it and limit access?
> Will it be the paddle charger?
> Will they make it complex?
> Are they full of it again?>
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9996348-54.html
>>
>> "SAN JOSE, Calif.--General Motors is teaming up with 30 utilities in 37
>> states and with the Electric Power Research Institute to develop a 
>> charging
>> infrastructure for electric cars."
>> Steve West 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Once we have the critical mass, it will be so easy for utilities to 
set up these charging stations. That's the beauty of all electric 
verses developing a hydrogen infrastructure. But I'm preaching to the 
choir on this one...



> Stephen West wrote:
> 
> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9996348-54.html
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids


> Once we have the critical mass, it will be so easy for utilities to
> set up these charging stations. That's the beauty of all electric
> verses developing a hydrogen infrastructure. But I'm preaching to the
> choir on this one...
>
>


> Stephen West wrote:
> >
> >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9996348-54.html
> >>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It 
will be an electronic piece of crap that won't fit ANYTHING you can buy at 
an electrical supply house! I mean, look at the "post" offerings, totally 
USELESS!! on most newer golf cart batteries?Oh NO we couldn't have the basic

automotive post that has been around longer than MY 67 years!!


Well I am hoping someone finds out the technology ASAP and passes it along
so it can be replicated for us Evers to use.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It will probably be something inductive with high resistance losses 
and poor power factor that eats up extra power, and they will probably 
charge something crazy like 50 cents/kWhr for the convenience + use 
fees, taxes, insurance, and monthly subscription charge, DOT fees, 
state slush-fund fees, with a little extra to send back to the oil 
companies for stealing their business. I hope I'm wrong.



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > It
> > will be an electronic piece of crap that won't fit ANYTHING you can
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:46:44 -0400, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >It will probably be something inductive with high resistance losses
> >and poor power factor that eats up extra power, and they will probably
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If I recall correctly, at least in New Hampshire, diesel vehicles would pay
road tax with their registration because diesel fuel was not taxed. This
seems to me like a reasonable solution for electric vehicles as well. 
Though, I think Diesel fuel is now taxed, much like gasoline is, so the
state(s) can get more tax from diesel users. i.e. usage based on fuel
consumption, rather than a fixed fee. Still, I think that is the best way
for a state to get road use fees from an electric vehicle driver. This way
even electrics charged at home will pay for their use of the roads.

Jim






> Neon John wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:46:44 -0400, Roger Heuckeroth
> > <[email protected]>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bob Rice wrote:
> > It will be an electronic piece of crap that won't fit ANYTHING you
> > can buy at an electrical supply house!
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So Lee,
We will create a not for profit organization then copy the paddle and any
needed associated electronics, sell this device for enough of a profit to
sustain the not for profit and along with the device a document that says
this device is not to be used to charge electric cars. Kind of like selling
water pipes and paper rollers in the 70s.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:55 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids



> Bob Rice wrote:
> > It will be an electronic piece of crap that won't fit ANYTHING you
> > can buy at an electrical supply house!
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh, there is currently I small goldrush going on in the charging
station/connector arena. A lot of companies are currently developing
charging solutions, everyone wants their solution to be the standard.
There is even a new SAE committee set up to come up with a new
charging standard, I don't know what was wrong with the old standards
but I hear they decided to throw them out and start anew.

History is repeating ...








> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Bob Rice wrote:
> >> It will be an electronic piece of crap that won't fit ANYTHING you
> >> can buy at an electrical supply house!
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> > I would not like to see a repeat of this monopolistic scheme!
> 
> Mark Grasser wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:12:08 -0700, "Peter Gabrielsson"


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >Oh, there is currently I small goldrush going on in the charging
> >station/connector arena. A lot of companies are currently developing
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT), shred <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Here in Oregon with the new price augment we pay 8.9 cents per kWh.
>If it?s going to cost over $.50 per kWh I?ll buy my juice at from home
>whenever possible.
>shred


Aren't you the one who steals his power?

No matter where or how you get your power, you'll pay the road tax if and when
enough EVs get on the road to make it worthwhile for the state to collect it.
As is proper.


--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Better to pass boldly into that other world in the full glory of some passion
than fade and wither dismally with age. -Joyce


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have been following the Volt pretty closely. I will buy one if they
are ever available. First new car since 1964.

Anyway, the plan is to have plug into a standard 120v outlet. Charger
will also accept 240v. The current discussion concerns location.
Original concept had inputs on both sides in front of the door. Front
center might make more sense.


-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

We pay road taxes when the vehicle comes up for tag renewal - or did you 
mean a different road tax, one for electricity used? I doubt that they could 
get one on electricity, when they are already doubling or tripling license 
fees, supposedly for road maintanence.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neon John" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids


> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT), shred <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Here in Oregon with the new price augment we pay 8.9 cents per kWh.
>>If it?s going to cost over $.50 per kWh I?ll buy my juice at from home
>>whenever possible.
>>shred
>
>
> Aren't you the one who steals his power?
>
> No matter where or how you get your power, you'll pay the road tax if and 
> when
> enough EVs get on the road to make it worthwhile for the state to collect 
> it.
> As is proper.
>
>
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> Better to pass boldly into that other world in the full glory of some 
> passion
> than fade and wither dismally with age. -Joyce
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1569 - Release Date: 7/23/2008 
> 1:31 PM
>
>
> 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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L2V2Cgo=


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What is wrong with just having either a 120 v or 240 v outlet that is on a 
GFI circuit? Gift's are code for all kitchens, bathrooms, shops here in 
Tucson and probably the rest of the states. The state will give you a $75 
tax credit if you install a dedicated outlet for an EV. It says nothing at 
all about the kind or safety of the outlet. If the wiring in the car keeps 
tripping the GFI, then the owner will have to change the wiring so that it 
is safe.

Rush
Tucson, AZ
2000 Insight, 62lmpg, #4965
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
www.TEVA2.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Grasser" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids


> So Lee,
> We will create a not for profit organization then copy the paddle and any
> needed associated electronics, sell this device for enough of a profit to
> sustain the not for profit and along with the device a document that says
> this device is not to be used to charge electric cars. Kind of like 
> selling
> water pipes and paper rollers in the 70s.
>
> Mark Grasser
> Eliot, ME
> 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> What is wrong with just having either a 120 v or 240 v outlet that is on a
> GFI circuit? Gift's are code for all kitchens, bathrooms, shops here in
> Tucson and probably the rest of the states. The state will give you a $75
> tax credit if you install a dedicated outlet for an EV. It says nothing at
> all about the kind or safety of the outlet. If the wiring in the car
> keeps
> tripping the GFI, then the owner will have to change the wiring so that it
> is safe.

There used to be a Federal tax credit for installing EV charging
infrastructure. I don't know if they have dropped this recently or not.

I claimed it several years ago for installing a dedicated EV charging
outlet, wiring, circuit breaker, etc.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> Aren=E2=80=99t you that pompous, curmudgeon that attempts to make himself=
feel
> better by putting down other people & their ideas?

If you don't like the posts by certain people, it's better to just filter
them out and ignore them than air it on the list.

For some folks it's just not worth digging through the garbage they spew
out for the occasional pearls of wisdom.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 24 Jul 2008 at 0:21, someone wrote:
> 
> > Aren't you that pompous, curmudgeon that attempts to make himself feel
> > better by putting down other people & their ideas?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

hi my 2 cents here ,,when i finially get my ev on the road ,, ive checked
and found free charging stations in my area .if gm//// sets up stations even
if they charge a $5.00 ,,, , wont matter to me if im in a area and needing
charge to get home ,,i would welcome paying it if i can go 20 miles plus
for 5 dollars in charge instead of paying 5 dollars for a gallon of gas 
[in a non ev ] im 4 it ..,,, most gas stations allready charge you for
water air etc .. anyhow ..not many around me here in LA CA . , but in
midwest WI they have waysides for people with restrooms etc ,would be ideal
if had charging stations at the waysides . even have at truck stops . a
person could cruise further even across country in the future with right
battery pack [batterys ] and plan distance to get to a charging place . 
lonnie

-----
acdcev
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/GM-partners-with-utilities-to-advance-plug-in-hybrids-tp18604077p18638012.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dude,
You are showing you Midwest-ism. Wayside!! I think that term goes right with
BUBBLER. Oops, just showed mine too.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of acdcev
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids




hi my 2 cents here ,,when i finially get my ev on the road ,, ive checked
and found free charging stations in my area .if gm//// sets up stations even
if they charge a $5.00 ,,, , wont matter to me if im in a area and needing
charge to get home ,,i would welcome paying it if i can go 20 miles plus
for 5 dollars in charge instead of paying 5 dollars for a gallon of gas 
[in a non ev ] im 4 it ..,,, most gas stations allready charge you for
water air etc .. anyhow ..not many around me here in LA CA . , but in
midwest WI they have waysides for people with restrooms etc ,would be ideal
if had charging stations at the waysides . even have at truck stops . a
person could cruise further even across country in the future with right
battery pack [batterys ] and plan distance to get to a charging place . 
lonnie

-----
acdcev
-- 
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/GM-partners-with-utilities-to-advance-plug-in-hybrids-
tp18604077p18638012.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> markgrasser wrote:
> >
> > Dude,
> > You are showing you Midwest-ism. Wayside!! I think that term goes right
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It seems to be not general knowledge,
but State law requires all CA gas stations to
provide free air and water when you have pumped gas there.
So, instead of dumping quarters into the machine, you walk
inside and ask the attendant to turn on the machine, when
in California.

Just for your information,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of acdcev
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids




hi my 2 cents here ,,when i finially get my ev on the road ,, ive checked and found free charging stations in my area .if gm//// sets up stations even if they charge a $5.00 ,,, , wont matter to me if im in a area and needing charge to get home ,,i would welcome paying it if i can go 20 miles plus for 5 dollars in charge instead of paying 5 dollars for a gallon of gas [in a non ev ] im 4 it ..,,, most gas stations allready charge you for water air etc .. anyhow ..not many around me here in LA CA . , but in midwest WI they have waysides for people with restrooms etc ,would be ideal if had charging stations at the waysides . even have at truck stops . a person could cruise further even across country in the future with right battery pack [batterys ] and plan distance to get to a charging place . 
lonnie

-----
acdcev
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/GM-partners-with-utilities-to-advance-plug-in-hybrids-tp18604077p18638012.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When did they pass that law, I was there in CA in 97 & had to use quarters 
then no free air
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids


> It seems to be not general knowledge,
> but State law requires all CA gas stations to
> provide free air and water when you have pumped gas there.
> So, instead of dumping quarters into the machine, you walk
> inside and ask the attendant to turn on the machine, when
> in California.
>
> Just for your information,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf Of acdcev
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:46 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids
>
>
>
>
> hi my 2 cents here ,,when i finially get my ev on the road ,, ive checked 
> and found free charging stations in my area .if gm//// sets up stations 
> even if they charge a $5.00 ,,, , wont matter to me if im in a area and 
> needing charge to get home ,,i would welcome paying it if i can go 20 
> miles plus for 5 dollars in charge instead of paying 5 dollars for a 
> gallon of gas [in a non ev ] im 4 it ..,,, most gas stations allready 
> charge you for water air etc .. anyhow ..not many around me here in LA 
> CA . , but in midwest WI they have waysides for people with restrooms etc 
> ,would be ideal if had charging stations at the waysides . even have at 
> truck stops . a person could cruise further even across country in the 
> future with right battery pack [batterys ] and plan distance to get to a 
> charging place .
> lonnie
>
> -----
> acdcev
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/GM-partners-with-utilities-to-advance-plug-in-hybrids-tp18604077p18638012.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

At almost every gas station I've been to, they don't even care if you
buy gas; you just ask the attendant to turn on the air, and they
oblige.

That's fine for filling tires, but it takes two minutes to air up a
standard tire from 20 psi to 40 psi on one of those. (I had a slow
leak before I replaced a tire, so I've tested this at many stations.)
Not practical for any kind of air-powered vehicle.


Tim

-----
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:36:53 -0700
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in
hybrids
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>

It seems to be not general knowledge,
but State law requires all CA gas stations to
provide free air and water when you have pumped gas there.
So, instead of dumping quarters into the machine, you walk
inside and ask the attendant to turn on the machine, when
in California.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jack.

I'm not sure when the original law was written. Originally, the law
required them to offer these services to anybody; the law was amended
in 1999 to limit it to customers who buy fuel.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/asm/ab_0501-0550/ab_531_bill_19990930_chaptered.html


Tim

-----
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:18:52 -0400
From: "Jack Riggi" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in
hybrids
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>

When did they pass that law, I was there in CA in 97 & had to use quarters
then no free air

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> Hi Jack.
>
> I'm not sure when the original law was written. Originally, the law
> required them to offer these services to anybody; the law was amended
> in 1999 to limit it to customers who buy fuel.
>
> http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/asm/ab_0501-0550/ab_531_bill_19990930_chaptered.html
>
>
> Tim
>
> -----
> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:18:52 -0400
> From: "Jack Riggi" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in
> hybrids
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>
> When did they pass that law, I was there in CA in 97 & had to use quarters
> then no free air
>
> 

I live in Ca. And 1 in 5 or 6 gas stations that have these, still work.
But I look at it another way, it is the difference between making a sale
and making a customer.
They use to call them services stations for a reason. LOL
I have a gasser too. Sometimes it's tank is full and it's tire is not.
If they give me flack and won't let me put air in my car without buying
gasoline, They loose the customer, When the gasser needs gas, i will
drive out of my way to avoid them for at least a year.
Never force a customer to buy something, they have long memories.


Also, If i get in a wreck because of a tire blowout from me or another
driver being refused air... Well maybe the layers came up with this one
to provide steady revenue anyway.

Here is another tact, As Ev'ers, maybe switch from creating vacuum to
creating air. Put a small tank in the trunk and a compressor that comes
on if it drops below 30psi. You put in 100 psi at home or during
charging. We now modify the vacuum booster to run on air, (vacuum on
front and atmosphere on back is the same as atmosphere on front and 14.8
psi on back) The regulated down to 14.8 psi for the brakes means this
tank doesn't have to be very large.

I have been designing on paper the perfect EV. One concept is this. Now
you have on board air for rafts, intertubes, mattrasses,etc not to
mention tires and the brakes.

Now I can get rid of the mechanical jack and put in air jacks like in
the race cars. (when you are considering a composite chassis, defineing
where the lifting points are gets kinda touchy) A plate on a rope might
be the only part the customer deals with. The lid to the valve body in
the floor of the trunk can be an Optional load plate on a rope to stick
under the jack on gravel or dirt surfaces... 

If I could just get rid of the spare. (wonders if rolled out tire would
make nice bumper. nah, only 3 feet in length)
I have wasted brain cells on this. 2 part rims and fold flat spares?
runflat? ported spindles ? 6 wheels 2 up front 4 in back, thin duallys
that let water escape, like those "aquatreads" A person would really
really have to look to see that they are two seperate rims. Added weight
but redundent, could use high pressure tires.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thank for the information Tim, to bad the don't have that law in Fl. I don't 
think they do?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in hybrids


> Hi Jack.
>
> I'm not sure when the original law was written. Originally, the law
> required them to offer these services to anybody; the law was amended
> in 1999 to limit it to customers who buy fuel.
>
> http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/asm/ab_0501-0550/ab_531_bill_19990930_chaptered.html
>
>
> Tim
>
> -----
> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:18:52 -0400
> From: "Jack Riggi" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM partners with utilities to advance plug-in
> hybrids
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>
> When did they pass that law, I was there in CA in 97 & had to use quarters
> then no free air
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:13:18 -0400, "Jack Riggi" <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >Thank for the information Tim, to bad the don't have that law in Fl. I don't
> >think they do?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmm, what does this mean?Will they control it and limit access?
Will it be the paddle charger?
Will they make it complex?

hi wander these charging stations ie gm , if they will be for,, volts only
??? like when u buy a volt you get a magnetic card to use in charging
stations free 4 life ,,, without card dont work for other non volt owners
??/ or use charge card etc to buy by kw for non volt owners ?? 

-----
acdcev www.youtube.com/lcalarea47 www.youtube.com/lcalarea47 
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