# [EVDL] Battery box - under hood



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Brian,

The battery box should have a non-metallic cover over it. The distance from 
the top surface of the batteries to the cover should at least be 2 inches. 
With high battery post it is recommended to have at least 3 inches from the 
plastic top surface.

It is also recommended to use a 3 inch clearance from the plastic top for 
any auto watering systems or Hydro Cells.

There should be at least 1/2 inch space from the top of the post or any 
other post connection to a non-metallic cover.

If is better to totally enclose the battery box, and install 2 inch PVC 
plumbing fittings for take off of the box for fresh air and exhaust air 
output. Use a thick PVC plumbing hose that is acid proof.

I install a 2 inch 90 degree PVC fittings and attach to the box using a 
reducing fitting with a flange on it, to act as a chase nipple so the flange 
is in the inside of the box.

I run in inlet air straight down out the bottom. I push in some of that 
green 3-M filter material that is use for swamp coolers. On the outlet side 
which is in the other corner of the box, I install the same PVC fittings and 
hose that runs to a inline 120 vac 2 inch diameter in line fan which I have 
come on when the battery charger is on.

This is pipe out down and out like a exhaust pipe would. Paint it black 
with that new plastic coating they have now.

If I'am charging inside a building on a very cold day and doing equalizing 
charger, I will connect a length of 2 inch PVC hose or one of those exhaust 
hoses that cannot to the garage door port that is sometimes use in auto 
maintenance areas. I got my from my local auto parts place.

You do not want to have the battery fumes getting inside of any of the 
components under the hood, near the battery charger or any other ignition 
source.

One time before I did all this modification, I ignited some hydrogen by 
turning off the battery charger. If you smell any battery fumes inside a 
building, open the garage door first before you even think of turning on or 
off any lights, or any thing else. The problem is how to open the garage 
door if it has expose operators for it.

After about 10 years, I had to break down the whole vehicle to have it sand 
blasted because all the components was all becoming pitted with the battery 
fumes. Had to recondition every thing item and replace a lot of items like 
you see on the TV program call OVERHAULING .

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Pikkula" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Battery box - under hood


> I will be building battery boxes for the floodies in the trunk.
>
> Do I also need boxes for the 5 or 6 batteries that will be under the
> hood? Are there sufficient gaps in the highest portion of the hood to
> let the H2 escape?
>
> TIA
>
> -- 
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

H2 will escape from under the hood. H2 doesn't tend to collect if it
has a way to escape. It dissipates rapidly. (It does collect inside
the flooded battery.)

Many EVs are built with no battery boxes at all. Battery racks support
the batteries. You need sealed battery boxes if the batteries would
otherwise be inside the passenger compartment.

The other reason for battery boxes is temperature control. Roland
lives in a cold place. Cold batteries lose capacity. Insulated battery
boxes will keep them from losing heat.



> Brian Pikkula <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I will be building battery boxes for the floodies in the trunk.
> >
> > Do I also need boxes for the 5 or 6 batteries that will be under the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I recommend making the plastic boxes anywhere you use flooded. After a few charges, your batteries will start getting electrolyte on the surface, it won't take long for this to cause a ground fault and/or start corrosion both of which are bad
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: storm connors <[email protected]>

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:26:39 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery box - under hood


H2 will escape from under the hood. H2 doesn't tend to collect if it
has a way to escape. It dissipates rapidly. (It does collect inside
the flooded battery.)

Many EVs are built with no battery boxes at all. Battery racks support
the batteries. You need sealed battery boxes if the batteries would
otherwise be inside the passenger compartment.

The other reason for battery boxes is temperature control. Roland
lives in a cold place. Cold batteries lose capacity. Insulated battery
boxes will keep them from losing heat.



> Brian Pikkula <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I will be building battery boxes for the floodies in the trunk.
> >
> > Do I also need boxes for the 5 or 6 batteries that will be under the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'll second Craig's opinion.

The batteries inside polypropylene (PP) boxes in my Cabriolet look brand 
new, but the ones in bare racks under the hood are a mess. I even had to 
remove the hold downs on the underhood batteries because of acid related 
shorts to the car frame. It was nearly impossible to keep them clean 
enough to not trip a GFI breaker.

PP boxes are nice, but are usually white and have to be hot-air welded.

1/4" ABS plastic sheet ($70 for a 4'x8' sheet here) is cheaper than PP, 
and is very easy to "weld" with solvent. Black ABS is the most UV tolerant 
and looks good under the hood/bed. One side is smooth and the other 
slightly textured, very similar to some bezel/trim textures.

As a last resort I'd consider bending up some Coroplast (corrugated 
plastic) into a box and using that. It will have little strength compared 
to 1/2" ABS or polypropylene, but it should do a great job keeping things 
clean and preventing shorts from acid mist. It can be difficult to glue, 
but mechanical fastening with zip-ties, staples, etc. is easy. $15-$40 for 
a 4'x8' sheet depending on thickness/color. Most sign shops carry it.

As a side note, that 1/4" ABS is also very handy. I've bent 1" wide strips 
with a heat gun into nice brackets, curved pieces, etc. I've also seen it 
used as an instrument cluster replacement - cut to fit where the 
instrument panel was, with custom gauges placed into the flat surface. 
Looked very clean & professional.


-Adrian




> Craig Egan wrote:
> 
> > I recommend making the plastic boxes anywhere you use flooded. After a
> > few charges, your batteries will start getting electrolyte on the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Has anyone tried or have information on useing fiberglass for battery boxes?
It's reasonably inexpensive if you buy it from the right place and in bulk 
and is easy to form. I've used it many times for different projects and am 
quite good at it but I've never used or seen it used in an acidic 
environment. I assume it would hold up well but don't know for sure. Some of 
our engineering folks may have better data.

Stub





> Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> > I'll second Craig's opinion.
> >
> > PP boxes are nice, but are usually white and have to be hot-air
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Stephens" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery box - under hood


>
> Has anyone tried or have information on useing fiberglass for battery 
> boxes?
> It's reasonably inexpensive if you buy it from the right place and in bulk
> and is easy to form. I've used it many times for different projects and am
> quite good at it but I've never used or seen it used in an acidic
> environment. I assume it would hold up well but don't know for sure. Some 
> of
> our engineering folks may have better data.
>
> Stub

See how my fiberglass battery boxes look at:

http://go-ev.net/pics/003.html

These are 1/4 inch fiberglass sheets that I got from a fiberglass company 
made to any size you want. One side is smooth and the other side is rough 
which has 2 inches of Dow Blue foam on it.

Lay up all the corners on the outside of the box with about five layers of 
different weight fiber glass with each layer overlapping it other. I left a 
1/8 V gap inside the corners and applied fiberglass putty in the corners.

The top flanges are also made out of fiber glass that is about 3/16 inch 
thick. Use a smooth aluminum angle to lay up these fiberglass angles 
against.

I at first use standard two part epoxy paint to coat these surfaces back in 
1985. This paint blister and peel after about 10 years. I waited until my 
battery replacement in 2002 to recoated these surfaces.

I first remove all the old epoxy with that powerful aircraft paint remover. 
Clean the surfaces with epoxy thinner and then apply the Tub and Sink epoxy 
coating that is use for recoating sinks and tubs that you can get at Home 
Depot.

I use two large kits that is a two part mix, which I thin down a bit, so I 
can get a better flow out of it with out brush marks. Its now been seven 
years on this paint and its perfect except for one spot above a battery 
filler neck that I forgot to tighten. It put a small yellow stain spot on 
it.

To touch up stains or any other areas, I clean the area with TSP (Trisodium 
Phosphate) heavy duty cleaner, wipe the surface with epoxy thinner and use 
the Tub and Tile one part epoxy coating that comes in spray cans that I got 
at Ace Hardware.

Roland




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, in my business I do a lot of fiberglass tanks. They have to be 
compatible with sulfuric acid. What you need to do is get vinyl ester 
resin. The polyester resin won't cut it. It is also a good idea to 
use a nexus veil on the interior surfaces. See http://www.nexusveil.com




> Chris Stephens wrote:
> 
> >
> > Has anyone tried or have information on useing fiberglass for
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Glass itself is resistant to just about every chemical. What's important is
the resin used. My understanding is that epoxy resins are generally
resistant to sulfuric acid. I don't know about polyester resins, but
polyester resin is best avoided anyway for other reasons.
Phil Marino



> Chris Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Has anyone tried or have information on useing fiberglass for battery
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Chris Stephens wrote:
> > Has anyone tried or have information on useing fiberglass for battery boxes?
> > It's reasonably inexpensive if you buy it from the right place and in bulk
> > and is easy to form. I've used it many times for different projects and am
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Craig Egan <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I recommend making the plastic boxes anywhere you use flooded. After a few
> > charges, your batteries will start getting electrolyte on the surface, it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Steve,

The acid vapor will cause conductance tracking along. After each 
equalization charge, I spray the top of the batteries, the sides of the 
battery box, the cover with Windex with ammonia. The ammonia is what 
neutralize the acid fumes.

Even after all that cleaning and even using all different types of battery 
cleaning compounds and no matter how hard you clean the surfaces, I still 
can read some voltage between a battery post and the top of the plastic 
battery case.

The further I move the test lead away from the other lead on the post, the 
voltage will get less, but still be in the 0.01 voltage range if I have one 
lead on the vehicle frame, and this is when the batteries are completely 
disconnected from the charger and from the main contactor and controller.

I use to have the batteries in a epoxy coated aluminum boxes and when 
charging with the lights off, I can seen small sparking from the battery 
cases to the epoxy coated boxes.

I find that that some of that tool handle dip stuff is also acid proof. Try 
applying a thick coat of this stuff on your battery racks. Looks like the 
same stuff that is use on battery hold down fittings.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Skarda" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery box - under hood


> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Craig Egan 


> > <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> > > I recommend making the plastic boxes anywhere you use flooded. After a
> > > few
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This was discussed in terms of insulated boxes last november. I saved 
one reply that I thought was a neat idea (from 'EVtraingCenter'):

Quote---

Hay this discussion has sparked a lot of interest. So I'll share my Best 
Battery Insulation / Installation with you. First make box frame out of steel 
angle heavy enough to show no visible deflection under weight of batteries. 
Next 1/2 inch cdx plywood bottom liner and top cover(Well painted with Enamel 
Paint.) NOW HERE IS THE GOOD STUFF, Air conditioning Plenum and duct board on 
the sides, ends, top (above plywood or other electrical insulating top cover 
 like lexan...) and between battery and plywood bottom.The air conditioning 
plenum and duct board is available at hvac supply companies and Home Centers 
here in Florida and virtually replaced galvanized sheet metal for connector 
boxes and larger ducts 20 years ago. it looks like yellow felt made of glass 
fiber in 4 by 8 sheets with one side covered with fiber reinforced foil 
facing. cuts with a knife. About 3/4 inch thick. DOES NOT BURN! Not expensive 
either ! The one other item I like is rubber conveyer belting, use one piece 
big enough to go end to end and up the ends too and side to side and under 
the batteries so if you were to dump a battery over accidentally none of the 
acid would reach the box. The belting they remove down at the cement plant they 
sell for about 50 cents a square foot. And it cuts with a sharp knife. It is 
34 inches wide and 3/16 thick, up to 1000 ft long.

Please do not cut up and use truck inner tubes. I did once then I had very 
strange electrical readings. So I put my ohmmeter leads on a 2 inch square an 
it measured 500 ohms. The carbon fiber which makes it strong is conductive !! 

---Unquote

I haven't tried this (or any other method - I'm still planning), but this one seemed good.

- SteveS



Steve Skarda wrote:
>


> Craig Egan <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I recommend making the plastic boxes anywhere you use flooded. After a few
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>> I recommend making the plastic boxes anywhere you use flooded.
>> After a few charges, your batteries will start getting electrolyte
>> on the surface, it won't take long for this to cause a ground fault
>> and/or start corrosion both of which are bad



> Steve Skarda wrote:
> > Is this really a big problem for folks?
> 
> Yes, it is.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Roland. I was thinking along the same lines. Googling around led
me to a couple of potential options:

Acid Proof Paint
http://www.skygeek.com/345qt.html
This should be acid resistant but I am not sure that will prevent electrical
shorting to the frame.

Glyptal
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=2298&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=glyptal
This is pretty expensive but in addition to being "acid resistance" they
claim it has "great electrical insulating properties."

KBS Coatings or Por 15
www.*por15*.com
Says that it is impervious to battery acid. I used this for rust repairs
and it works great but it probably wouldn't provided electrical resistance.

Plastic Dip
http://www.hilltronix.com/Plasti_Dip-Plasti_Dip_1_gallon.html
Going along with your suggestion, this seems pretty good also. I am not
sure how it would hold up to abrasion but it states that it is resistant to
acid.

Has anyone tried one of these?

Roland/Lee/others- You guys are the experts on this stuff and us new folks
sure do appreciate you continuing to share your expertise with us!

Lee- I read your message as well. It sounds like my setup will be similar
to yours but I am using fiberglass for my box. Are you doing anything to
hold your batteries down inside of the plastic box or does the cover have
enough strength to hold them in a rollover? I like the tip about putting a
hole in the bottom of the box. I also appreciate the advice for an actual
cover.



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've found epoxy-based pickup truck bedliner material (the sort that detail 
shops usually apply with an undercoating gun) works well for coating the 
inside of battery boxes. 

I can't take credit for the idea; this is one that Mary Ann Chapman came up 
with when she was designing the Desert Lightning conversion pickups in the 
early 1990s.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David,

What do you know about Mary Ann Chapman and the conversions she was doing? 
She and her group were the original TEVA (Tucson Electric Vehicle 
Association) and I was just wondering about the history of EV's here in 
Tucson.
Thanks for any info.

Rush
Tucson AZ
www.TEVA2.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery box - under hood


> I've found epoxy-based pickup truck bedliner material (the sort that 
> detail
> shops usually apply with an undercoating gun) works well for coating the
> inside of battery boxes.
>
> I can't take credit for the idea; this is one that Mary Ann Chapman came 
> up
> with when she was designing the Desert Lightning conversion pickups in the
> early 1990s.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 12 Feb 2009 at 23:51, Rush wrote:
> 
> > What do you know about Mary Ann Chapman and the conversions she was
> > doing?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > On 12 Feb 2009 at 23:51, Rush wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nice story!
It felt kinda good to hear about the company that originally
converted my car in about 1994. I had known nothing about them till
now.

Thanks for the history!

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555





> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 12 Feb 2009 at 23:51, Rush wrote:
> >
> >> What do you know about Mary Ann Chapman and the conversions she was
> ...


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