# Startup Conversion Shop, Washington, PA area



## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

I am a 23 year old Electrical Engineering student about to graduate from California University of Pennsylvania. I've been a member here for years, and have learned an absolute ton about the development and construction of electric vehicles. I have extensive fabrication and design skills, and a strong automotive background. My first conversion was a 72volt Saturn, and cost under 2000$ including the donor. 

I have been planning a conversion shop for a while, later developing our own production vehicle. But after seeing the below thread, I noticed a pretty big gap in my area, Pennsylvania. Maybe I should start sooner and beat the market?

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...st-north-american-conversion-shops-54096.html

I am still in the "looking for money" stage, and will be actively seeking Venture Capital soon, as I finish my business plan. I basically already have my staff. Many local mechanics are interested. I have a professional welder, professional CADD team, many engineers (I myself an Electrical Engineer) and access to all required equipment.

I want to make the technology accessible to the people, by keeping quality high, and prices low. Profit will happen, but isn't the driving force. (I shouldn't tell the investors that!) I plan to focus on both DC and AC drives, and have developed my own DC drive. I plan to develop an AC drive in the near future.

Any members in the area(south west PA,WV, or OH) who would like to help, or use our services? I would love to see what support the forum has in my town!


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## Tm PV1 (Jun 5, 2010)

Hello, Alex. I live in the area and I was just wondering how far along you were on your venture. I have been bouncing around the idea of building a solar car (link in sig), hybridizing my Cavalier, or finding a cheap EV. The closest one that I can find for sale is in Michigan. It would be great to have a conversion shop in the area.


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## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

The plan fell apart, as this thread shows, there is zero interest other than your own. I'd gladly help you with your conversion on weekends! I recently moved to Clarksburg, WV, but am usually home on weekends, at least for the coming months i will be as well.


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

Just curious, can you make a decent living with a conversion shop? My wife really thinks I should start a conversion business since I've got that entrepreneurial bent, love cars, and am an electrical engineer by trade. It sounds sorta fun but I just don't know if I can support our family that way. 

Right now I have a pretty lucrative career path at a large technology company doing work that is cutting edge and interesting to me... but on the other hand I think it'd be cool to be a part of history. 

Back to that other hand, now that GM, Nissan, and soon to be many other large manufacturers are getting into EV production, seems like the convert-your-gasser route looks to be dying. As one member even says, no more waiting go buy one off the shelf! (Esp. since Americans love to finance things... but I digress).


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## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

I rather be like CroDriver(Mate Rimac) and just build EV's. But i want to build ones that people can actually afford....unlike GM, Nissan, everybody else...

I have lots of plans, and a nearly complete design. I need help with the exterior look, can't make one i like, not an artist.

Found a cheap source of big ac motors to start, that we can replicate/buy when supply runs out.

I just have no capital. I'm trying to buy a house and keep my gassers on the road. Not easy in this economy.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

notailpipe said:


> Just curious, can you make a decent living with a conversion shop?


I think like many small businesses, it would be best to start small and work up to full time. Doing conversions part-time on weekends etc. would also build a portfolio that you can market to expand in the future.


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## Tm PV1 (Jun 5, 2010)

I think the biggest problem is the lack of knowledge of renewable energy and EV's around here. How many people know about the EV chargers that are planned for I-376?

http://m.timesonline.com/mobile/new...cle_a3f5ea2a-d70b-510d-b0a1-753a8e7c201e.html

Also, a lot of people I talk to have very little knowledge of the Chevy Volt, Tesla Roadster, or Nissan LEAF, or don't even know they exist. If perhaps there was more marketing done around here, You would have plenty of business. The LEAF will attract most of the DIY'ers, but many people like their current vehicle and not the LEAF, and the same with the Volt. Personally, I like the LEAF better than the Volt, but people look at the specs of the LEAF and don't have a full understanding of how it works. They also don't know much about the level 3 chargers, 80% in 30 minutes from dead. The Volt won't make it from Washington to Pittsburgh without using gas, but the LEAF will, and the LEAF will also cover almost all of the driving that I do. The problem is that I don't have $34,000 and I like my current car, so a conversion of my car would be cheaper, and I can add batteries for more range without the worry of a warranty being voided. With a local diy shop, people have the option of buying production Ev's when they are available here (volt is, LEAF available soon) or having their car converted. Which option is taken depends on that person's preference of the car itself, cost, and convenience. I think convenience is the biggest barrier to ev adoption, but widespread adoption will bring prices down, allowing bigger batteries, farther ranges, and faster charging. Maybe if solar roadways get installed, in-road inductive charging will remove the convenience barrier because of greatly increased range, and almost no hassle of charging since power is always delivered to the car as long as it's on a road, in a parking lot or driveway. 

I'm starting to face the same problem as your idea with the business. Right now, my solar car project is ready to build and I have some of the stuff, but I keep getting distracted by EV's and hybrids. Maybe one day It'll finally be built.


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

alexcrouse said:


> I rather be like CroDriver(Mate Rimac) and just build EV's. But i want to build ones that people can actually afford....unlike GM, Nissan, everybody else...


Yeah, that'd be my dream too to design and build a production EV from scratch, but I think that's _really_ just dreaming. No offense to you, but I dream of that too and even I think it's unrealistic. Go watch _Revenge of the Electric Car_ and ask yourself, do you really want to be Elon Musk? He had the millions to keep it going too...

If you succeed, power to you.


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I think like many small businesses, it would be best to start small and work up to full time. Doing conversions part-time on weekends etc. would also build a portfolio that you can market to expand in the future.


I agree, but my question is more along the lines of, can it even _get to_ full-time? Or are the customers more like a couple every year? I definitely agree about starting part-time, confirmed that lesson when I tried to start my own small-business earlier this year...


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## notailpipe (May 25, 2010)

Tm PV1 said:


> Also, a lot of people I talk to have very little knowledge of the Chevy Volt, Tesla Roadster, or Nissan LEAF, or don't even know they exist.


Prices coming down on OEM EVs will happen at the same time they start pumping more millions towards marketing them, probably latter, then former. By the time everyone is familiar with the Leaf/Volt/others and EV concepts, prices will have came down and they can either buy a now-$25K vehicle new or pay $15K to convert their old car by a guy and/or guys in a semi-professional-looking shop with no 50K/100K powertrain warranty... what do you think they will do?


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## Tm PV1 (Jun 5, 2010)

True, but if you're like me and want a cheap solution until you buy an OEM EV (which the day is getting increasingly close), or for parents that don't want their kids to travel too far from home, DIY is attractive. It would also make a nice backup incase the automakers pull another GM (death of the EV1, selling out to Chevron, crippling NiMH batteries), but who knows.


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## Tm PV1 (Jun 5, 2010)

Alex, if you are interested in helping me, maybe you could read my thread (link in sig, "PV1 solar car") and let me know what you think of my car's construction. Hopefully, I'll make a refresher post highlighting the latest construction and setup of the car (technically a reverse trike) sometime soon.

I also have a design for a second car that is inspired by the Impact concept and the EV1. I'm trying to decide on the propulsion system for it, EV, PHEV, etc. This one is more a dream for when (if?) I get a car company going.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

notailpipe said:


> Just curious, can you make a decent living with a conversion shop?



I keep trying to see a way to do this, but no business plan seems to show much profit as a primary business. Maybe potential for a large shop to fill time between other jobs, or a little money here and there as an instructor/consultant.

issues are small LOCAL market demand, relatively lengthy time filling a garage bay making real estate overhead high, and unavailable financing for buyers. Not that many people can self finance or line up a peer-to-peer loan of $15k for a car the Banks won't touch.

I WISH it were a brighter picture, but I don't see how to make a living adding 10% to parts cost and 150 hours labor per car... and then there are the liability issues that are very foggy...


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