# AC55 versus Warp 9



## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Getting ready to work on my second conversion which will be a small pickup truck.

My first was the typical 9” series wound DC setup and it worked great. This time I am considering an AC solution and wanted to get some opinions.

Setup 1: Warp 9, Controller (probably a 750A Logisystems, this worked great on my last project), 48-200Ah SE LiFePO4 batteries.

Setup 2: AC55 setup from evcomponents.com. 96-100Ah SE LiFePO4 batteries.

Both setups have the same size battery pack as far as kwh available and the setups should be very similar in price, with the AC55 package only being $3500 from evcomponents.

The AC55 is a bit heavier and would probably require more effort to install. I think the Warp 9 would be a little quicker. My main question is how much more efficient might the AC55 setup be. In both cases, I would keep the manual transmission.

Steve


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

notnull said:


> My main question is how much more efficient might the AC55 setup be. In both cases, I would keep the manual transmission.
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve,

I can't say for sure, but I'd give the AC system 2, maybe 3 percentage points over the DC system. Afterall, it is twice the voltage, so would be half the current at equal power. And if you can utilize regen with the AC, add a few more percent to the mix if you have stops or hills in your route.

That be my guess,

major


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I say go with the AC55 and tell us how it compares to your DC 9". 

I haven't seen very many conversions with the AC55, and none that Ive seen so far give any specs regarding acceleration, top speed, or efficiency. 

I'm using an AC motor about the same rating as the AC55, and I think the biggest difference is torque at high rpm. My 3800lb Passat can hit 100mph, not many DC systems can do that =)


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

Doesn't the AC55 require the use of the DMOC445 controller? That way you get the regen as well as the power curve programmability....


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

It does require the DMOC445 controller which is included in the $3500 price. That is why I am considering it. Normally, this combo goes for about 6K. evcomponents picked up some of these in an estate sale.

I know what I am getting with the Warp 9, my miata used about 250wh per mile and I expect the truck would be more like 350wh per mile. I am just wondering if I will get similar performance from the AC55 but better efficiency, maybe 300wh per mile. 

I guess there is only one way to find out. I will probably go ahead and pull the trigger on the AC55.

Steve


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Last I knew the units EVcomponents were selling came with the older UMOC445 inverter, not the DMOC.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

notnull said:


> Getting ready to work on my second conversion which will be a small pickup truck.


Just curious, what make/model truck are you converting. I plan on converting a Ford Ranger 2003 or 04. I was also looking at EVComponents AC55 but it seemed quite heavy and required a much higher voltage. 

Does anyone know if it has brake regen?
________
Rubinnajm


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes it does have regen.


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

JRP3 is correct that it comes with an older controller (UMOC) and not the newer DMOC, but I couldn't find any difference in the specs. You definitely would have to go in knowing this is not a free lunch, you are paying $3500 for something that went for twice as much brand new and you are getting an older possibly slightly used version. I still think it is probably worth the risk to go AC and have regen capability.

I am planning on a 2000 s-10 conversion. I would not attempt the high voltage with lead. 26 - 12V lead batteries is a lot of weight. Actually, I will not do another conversion with lead. It works but just not well enough for me to be happy in my first conversion. I was thinking of 96 LiFePO4 batts at 3.3Kg or about 700lb pack weight. These would be 100ah batts, so about a 30kwh pack. I would expect a solid 80 mile range with this setup.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Yes it does have regen.


 
Thanks 4 the info. Much appreciated. 
Would you happen to know if the bolt pattern is the same as warp9/11? I will be ordering an adaptor plate for a warp 9/11. If it fits with no problem, i may reconsider what motor I will use.

Thanks again dude!
________
Buy portable vaporizers


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Off the top of my head I'd say no it's not the same.


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## notnull (Jul 30, 2008)

Definitely not the same pattern and the shaft is splined on the AC55. The AC55 would take a little more DIY to get it mounted and coupled. I am not aware of anything off the shelf.

Steve


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Electroauto sells the AC55 and they have adapters for them, though they speak of a keyed shaft instead of a spline for the AC55
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/acmotors.shtml


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## Overlander23 (Jun 15, 2009)

Has anyone figured out the differences between the older UMOC and newer DMOC controllers?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I think the older units had problems with regen, and possibly some other issues.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Why not go with a higher voltage DC system?

Warps can take up to 192V now...you could get the soon to be released Soliton-1 controller or the Raptor-II, both with ratings of 192V...and around 1000A outputs...

Those 200AH cells shouldn't have too much of an issue with 5C draw...


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Warps can take up to 192V now...you could get the soon to be released Soliton-1 controller or the Raptor-II, both with ratings of 192V...and around 1000A outputs...


Not at the same time. Pushing 192 Volts AND 1000 Amps through a WarP will probably be very bad for the motor. In our tests we've (or rather, Tesseract has) run the WarP 9" with 100 Volts and 1000 Amps and after about 15 seconds the motor is arcing pretty bad. If you increase the voltage I doubt you get 15 seconds...


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Qer said:


> Not at the same time. Pushing 192 Volts AND 1000 Amps through a WarP will probably be very bad for the motor. In our tests we've (or rather, Tesseract has) run the WarP 9" with 100 Volts and 1000 Amps and after about 15 seconds the motor is arcing pretty bad. If you increase the voltage I doubt you get 15 seconds...


So then maybe an interpoled motor would be a better fit...like a Kostov-11"...


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> So then maybe an interpoled motor would be a better fit...like a Kostov-11"...


Possible, but I don't have any data from the dyno on the 11". Otherwise a Siamese might also solve it since you will get half the voltage or half the current over the motors.

Or you can tune down the controller a bit.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Odds are you won't be spending much time at 100+ volts and 1000 amps anyway, unless you're trying for a land speed record.


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