# 1992 S-10 Chevrolet Build



## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

I guess a list of what was bad/wrong with the donor would be helpful.
List of what was wrong:
Engine knocking bad, over heating, and smoking
Engine compartment extremely dirty and some minor surface rust.
Tail lights, signal lights, Brake lights, and side marker lights didn’t work
Front grill minor cracks, front bumper minor dents and some minor surface rust.
Back bumper missing bolts, out of alignment, minor dents and some minor surface rust.
Cracked windshield, missing rear view mirror, driver’s side window off it’s track. 
Windshield wiper blades bad worn.
Drivers door not in alignment ( need new hinge pins)
Drivers inside door panel badly damaged and arm rest missing.
Dash had several cracks, Heater core box cracked-broke.
Headliner falling down and dome light missing.
Both front wheel bearings bad worn, disk brakes bad worn, right front rotor bad worn, front right brake hose worn and cracked.
Steering and front Suspension ok but need greased.
Ignition switch worn out.
Emergency / park break release lever cable broke.
Front seat has several rips and tears.
Carpet very dirty but surprising in real good shape.
Body very minor dents and scrapes
Pick up bed minor dents and minor to hard surface rust.
Wheels ok but Tires will need to be replaced.
List of what was good:
Body, frame, suspension, transmission, drive shaft u joints, deferential all really good shape
No metal fatigue /stress cracks, all rust minor and easy treated with rust inhibitor and spray paint.
All lights easy repaired by replacing bulbs and locating wire short circuit. 
My definition of minor surface rust = Can be removed easy with a fine steel wool.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Saturday, July 12, 2008 First Day: Remove Stuff:
Tip: Take your time, don’t break or tear stuff up you may be able to sell some of this junk. Label all wires even the grounds.　
Hood 
Breather unit
Vacuum lines and vacuum reservoir. 
12 volt Battery
Wires to sensors
Ignition Coil
Distributor 
Radiator
Radiator hoses
Radiator overflow tank
Heater hoses
Fan
Fan Belt
Smog Pump
Smog lines, Sensors, wires, etc.
Alternator
Air conditioner (moved to one side)
Power steering pump (moved to one side)
Exhaust system
Exhaust Manifolds
Catalytic converter
Muffler
Exhaust pipes
Starter
Fuel Tank
Fuel Tank supports etc.
TIME: Started this project with the Intentions of it being a fun project and not another Job/Choir. Total time spent, about 7 hours. Spent time discussing, talking, and planning. Then also stopped working for lunch. More time Planning. Took our time and took several breaks.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

July 13, 2008
Drain oil, coolant, and fuel.
Removed bell housing bolts, motor mounts and supported front of transmission.
Tip: on Chevy s-10 one of the top bell housing bolts is hard to get to. They recommend to jack the cab up, But if you take the motor mounts off ( both even the bottom that is on the cross member) you can lower the motor and remove the bolt most of the way, then when you start to pull the engine loose from the trany it will give you the clearance to finish removing this top bolt.
Pulled engine


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Worked on electrical system : Removed sensors, tested and labeled wires one at a time. Replaced fuses, inspected and replaced bulbs in tail lights etc. cut and taped the ends and placed in new wire loom.
Installed 12 volt 30 amp terminal strip for 12 volt system. I have two more pictures I will put in the next post.
Removed all clutch components and cut pilot shaft to length.
Note: the two straps on bell housing is just plumbers tape to temporary hold trany while I worked on wires.
This took about two weekends. The wiring was very time consuming, not knowing what to disconnect.
Working on the engine wiring gave me an idea, and I think I will post it on the Technical Discussion forum.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

here is a picture of the new wire looms
and below is a close up picture of the trany.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Worked on adapter plate: 
Adapter plate was ½” x 18” x 18” alum. And tolerances are very close on attaching it to the bell housing. I took my time measured then measured again. I bet I had this thing on and off a dozen times before I drilled my holes. I knew they had to be perfect. I even drilled out the dust cover bolt holes, not necessary but they were there and it bolted up like a glove.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Worked on motor mounts:
Used ½” x 4” x 4” x 6” angle iron, cut in half so each is 3” long. Wanted ¼” but the scrap yard only had ½” for $5.00 usd, so 2.50 each wasn’t bad. Once again took several measurements to insure motor transmission alignment. After mounting mounts to cross member, I removed all excess metal from angle iron. Then cleaned and painted them.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Installed motor and anti torque mounts
Bolted two anti torque mounts to the bell housing then to the frame.








Wraped motor with plastic and started to work on the control board used 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" square tubeing for board supports.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Removed power steering pump.








Installed manual steering. This was easy only took about two hours.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Had some time waiting on ordered parts and got all of the repair list of what was bad/wrong done.
Didn’t take any pictures but worked on front bumper, grill and drivers door.
Front grill repaired with “J.B. weld”. Front bumper just cleaned and painted and added wrap around ground effect under bumper. Don’t know if they really make any difference with drag, but it looks good.
Replaced drivers door hinge pin, A buddy helped me with this. It’s easy to change, Its just to bulky to handle.
Also worked on the lights, most was blown fuses, burn out bulbs, but did find a short where the wires going to the tails lights was damaged. Looked as if someone had wrapped a chain around the frame and pinched the wires.
The rear bumper had missing bolts and was out of alignment. Replaced missing bolts, treated with rust inhibitor and painted. Turned out looking party good.
Had a glass company come out and replaced the windshield, He did a real good job cleaning the mount and paint a rust inhibitor on it before he installed the new glass. didn’t take very long to replace the windshield but he stayed a long time talking with me about the conversion.
Purchased new wiper blades and a rear view mirror and put them on.
I know this sounds like a lot of repairs, but it really didn’t take that long and wasn’t hard to do. Did most in the evenings after work.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Changed brake pads front/back. Purchased new right front rotor $26.00 usd or $ 16.00 to get it turned, only 10.00 difference so I decided to just replace it, the old one was in real bad shape. Also replaced right front brake line, It would probably been ok, but it was frayed and I think it was about $ 6.00 usd. Replaced both front wheel bearings and seals.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Added Heavy duty 2000lb super leaf springs on back axle. 
Tip: additional load capacity may not be obtained without raising vehicle before installing.
Another Tip: If you chose to add heavy duty overload shocks, You may need to “Beef Up” the shock mounts.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

I thought that I should point out that you don’t have to have a fully equipped garage to do a conversion.
The tools that I have used, besides the normal hand tools such as sockets, wrenches and screwdrivers. Are a small drill press that you attach a drill to ( made by Sears and Roebuck) so this should give you an idea how old this thing is. A 4 ½ hand grinder/cuter and jig saw. I did purchase a two ton folding hydraulic shop crane ( engine puller) I could have probably rented one, but I live in a real small town and would have had to drive a long way to get it and back again to return it.
I purchased my adapter plate and coupler when I purchased my motor so no machining on them except to cut off the excess material on the adapter plate.
I did have some help, but most of the conversion was done by myself. Doing a EV conversion is a great “buddy” project.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Worked on vacuum system for the brakes
Used 6” x 17” sdr 26 PVC pipe ( scrap piece from work no cost)
Two glue on pvc caps
Taped out the holes for the fittings cleaned, sanded and painted. 
Took about an hour to assemble.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Worked on Vacuum system and Heater
Installed vacuum pump, check Valve, Then Heater contactor and Ceramic Heater.
Note: Gauge in picture was temporary, had it there while I 
Adjusted the Vacuum regulator switch. I installed it in the dash later.
Tip: Remove all vacuum lines from the ICE and don’t throw any of it away until your done. Some of it can be reused. Example you will need a check valve for the electric vacuum pump. Some of the vacuum lines may even still be good and reused.
Installed Heater contactor in a abs plastic 5”x 7” x3” project enclosure box from Radio Shack. $5.99 usd.
Time spent about 4 hours


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Removed old heater core and replaced with a electric Ceramic element.
Note: to remove heater core, the dash on the passenger side must be loosened to access the top two screws on the heater box cover. Obvious the previous owner had replaced the heater core, and didn’t remove the top two screws. The heater box cover was broke to exchange the heater core.
Repaired heater box cover with epoxy plastic glue and taped over the repaired cracks with metal duct tape.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

The Old dash was in terrible shape and was needing recovered but I found a used one at the salvage yard that was in real good shape. I had a buddy help me on removing and installing the new dash. Removing a dash is a real choir and the extra set of hands came in real handy. The stereo / cd player is one I purchased for my 2004 pickup but couldn’t use it due to when I installed it I discovered that the stock radio is hooked up to the control module and things quit working. One has to buy a special harness and leave the stock radio installed behind the seat or somewhere. So I decided just to put the stock radio back in and the new stereo has been in the closet ever since until now. Works and sounds great in this little truck.








Still working on the instrument cluster.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Installed vacuum gauge, amp. Gauge, 144 volt gauge and 12 volt gauge.
Time spent on the dash and instrument cluster was about 7 hours


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Installed control board, laid out and dry test fitted all the parts to be mounted.








Curtis controller, two sw disconnects, pb6 in enclosure box, porter Bromfield relay in small enclosure box and dc to dc converter. two klk fuses one for heater the other for pb6


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

View of bottom of control board. Fan for controller, shunt for amp meter.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

On board charger “Quick Charge” op144v/10a dc 117 vac 
Battery box completed. Insulated with ¾ h.d. poly. foam board. Have vents on both sides of box compartment. I may need to install a vent fan. I will keep a real close check on this. The cardboard boxes are a mock up of the batteries. Just to give me some idea how they will fit.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Battery box covered in marine grade carpet, Also made a cover for the rest of the bed. I made a bed cover for a ford ranger and it did help with the gas mileage, not much avg. 2 to 3 mpg at the best. So maybe on these small trucks the air drag is reduced with a cover?


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

I added the small vacuum reservoir to the vacuum line that goes to the heater / vent controls. It’s the small round sphere on the right. Also this picture shows the control board supports 1 ¼ x 1 ¼ then wall tubing all bolted none of it is welded. It’s attached at the frame just in front of the transmission and at the front where the radiator was. I have two anti torque supports attached from the bell housing over to the frame. The black wire loom to the left of the motor is a over temp switch that is built into the motor. I have it run to the dash and have installed a light and buzzer. I have my tachometer pick up collar attached in this picture and now have the sending unit (switch) installed. I will need to take another picture of it. I left the air intake that went to the carburetor and positioned it down towards the motor. Not shown in this picture is a support rod to hold the control board in an upright position when needed. Just like the rod that supports the hood up when opened.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

A lot of builder’s block off the radiator and install a battery boxes there, and I may at a later date. I have read several comments about the “air drag” of the S-10, so I decided to build an air plenum at the radiator opening forcing the air down and under the truck. Hopefully this will reduce the drag. I’ve also installed vents on front and sides. Hopefully this will let in air without a lot of water. I already had all the materials to build it so, nothing wasted but time.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Today I mounted the “power cheq” Battery equalizer modules to a ½ “ treated board ( scrap left over from the bed cover) These operate during Charge, Discharge, and Idle modes. They are bi directional, Bi directional equalization ensures that all batteries in a string are equalized no matter where the low voltage battery is located. Has two led lights red, and green for monitoring the equalization. I don’t know if anyone has used these yet in a 144 vdc pack. After reading their technical specifications I decided to try them. I had a five “d” cell flash light Heat/smoke up on me once just because I used 4 new batteries and one old one in the string. So I didn’t want to take a chance on my 144 v pack of having one low battery in the string.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Worked on the s-10, but just small stuff, like the tachometer, battery box and other small choirs that needed done. 
I have changed my goal for my completion date. I’m now trying to complete the conversion before the first of the year. Next big step is the batteries and tires.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

I have now reregistered and tagged my EV. About Arkansas Incentives and Laws when it comes to EV‘s, no Incentives that I know about but plenty of Laws. I will declare my conversion to the Director of the Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration Monday. I have already e-mailed them to find out what the requirements are and the answer was to send them the VIN, make and model so they could record it. I will copy and paste what I have found out so far:
From what I could find an Electric Conversion is considered Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) Conversion
>Any individual or company who converts an AFV to operate on an alternative fuel must report the conversion to the Director of the Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration within 10 days of the conversion. An owner or operator who fails to report such a conversion may be subject to a penalty. (Reference Arkansas Code 26-62-214) <
*>26-62-214. Conversion of vehicles for use of alternative fuels.*
*(a) *Any alternative fuels supplier, garage, mechanic, owner, or operator of a motor vehicle who converts or causes a vehicle to be converted to enable the vehicle to be operated on any type of alternative fuels shall report the conversion to the Director of the Department of Finance and Administration on forms prescribed by the director, which shall include, but not be limited to, the model, make, license number, and vehicle identification number of the converted vehicle within ten (10) days after the conversion.<
*>(c) (1) *It shall be unlawful for any person to operate any motor vehicle which has been
converted or equipped to use alternative fuels unless the vehicle has been reported to the director and any permit, if required by this chapter of that person, has been obtained.<
*>(2) *If any owner or operator fails to report a conversion of a vehicle to the director
within the time prescribed above, such person shall be assessed a penalty of two hundred fifty dollars ($250) which shall be in addition to any criminal penalty in this chapter.<
*>26-62-213. Unlawful activities regarding operation of motor vehicles.*
*(a) *It is unlawful and a violation of this chapter to operate with alternative fuels any motor vehicle licensed for highway operation on which an odometer or hub meter is not kept at all times in good operating condition to correctly measure and register the miles traveled by the motor vehicle.<
*>26-62-212. Power to stop, investigate, and impound vehicles<*
Since the Electric Conversion is listed with the AFV I’m sure it wont be long before the Politicians ( good American term for kings and lords) to figure out a new tax law.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

I have my batteries now 12 max 29 but have hit a road block, I post my question in the Technical Discussion section, Hope someone has some advice for me. My plans is to have them connected next week.
I will try to get some pictures posted then.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Today I crimped all the battery terminals. I took them to work and the electrical supervisor showed me how to use the hydraulic crimper.
It’s crimps at 10, 000 pounds. I work at a utility company and they use these crimpers to crimp transmission as well as distribution lines.
It was a lot faster than one of those crimpers that you hit with a hammer. 
The city inspector works at the same office with me and he offered to take a infrared picture of the connections using a “FLIR” camera. 
I also stopped by the hardware store to purchase more tie down bolts for the batteries.
Should be able to finish hooking up the batteries tomorrow. I’m getting real close being done and ready for the big E.V. grin.


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## joshg678 (Jan 25, 2009)

Looks like you have a pretty nice project going here. I'de love to see how it turns out and what type of range you get with this. Good to know your work is willing to help you out with this project, must be a good Plus.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

joshg678 said:


> Looks like you have a pretty nice project going here. I'de love to see how it turns out and what type of range you get with this. Good to know your work is willing to help you out with this project, must be a good Plus.


joshg678
Yes, Most at work are real helpful. The old GM told me flat out I couldn’t plug in at work, but he will retire the end of the month, Don’t know yet what the new GM will say. I plan on purchasing a kill a watt meter just to keep up with what electricity I use. I don’t think I will have to plug in at work. I may need to once, the first trip, and again, then once the second week, just for the batteries cycle. I have read that batteries need to be broke in, increasing the mileage between charges.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

12/24/09 - 12/25/09 ( playing catch up again) 
I have installed the batteries, battery tie down bolts and have all the equalizers ( power cheq modules) hooked up. Took about 8 hours. Charged them overnight. I have read that new batteries just have a surface charge. Also had to re program the charger it was set for AGM batteries.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

The S-10 is Done, Took her on the first trip today.
Got stuck in my yard taking her out from the back porch. Almost got my chev. Truck stuck pulling the s-10 out. It has rained the last two days and snowed Christmas eve. about 2” so the ground was saturated.

Took her on a 8 mile round trip and kept her under 45 mph. It is 4 miles to the next small town and there is two hills. 
Going went great! But when I turned around I was at the bottom of one of the hills. The acceleration was about the same as a 4 cylinder ICE going up the hill. Then it picked up great. 
I will take it easy until I get the batteries broke in. Also my amp meter isn’t working. 
So I’m driving by gut instinct and since I’ve never drove an EV don’t know how good that is. A buddy that help me some with the conversion came over and I took him on the same trip ( another 8 mile round trip) this time I got her up to 55 mph and still had plenty of pedal left.

I can say I am amazed! It’s has turned out way above my expectations! The shifting is very smooth! No clutch and it’s been awhile since I’ve drove a standard.
Plenty of power, plenty of acceleration. 
I don’t have any real data yet, but this is what I have so far: starting voltage before charge 153.6. Then 157.9 after charge. Then 151.3 after two 8 mile trips (16 miles)

Wished my amp meter worked so I could have recorded my amps. I will post more data once I get the amp working. 
Also I think I may be one of the few using the “power cheq” modules. At least I havent read any post from anyone else using them.
Sorry for a long post but, kinda excited about my first EV!


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Ordered a “Kill a Watt ez” meter # p4460. I really want to record the cost of electric usage to charge.
This is probably one of the most asked questions that I’ve been asked. “ What is it going to cost to charge the batteries?” 
and of course the other main question is “range anxiety” question “ How far can you go on a charge?” 
and the last big question is “ How long is it going to take to get back the money invested?”
What is it going to cost: don’t know yet, but will.
What is the range: well my round trip to work is only 26 miles. I should get twice that.
What is the payback: At least I will get a payback, If I spent the same amount on an ICE, There isn’t any.
I want to be able to at least get a acurate cost of charge.


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm really impressed by your workmanship. I am starting my conversion in a few days. I just hope I can resist the urge to get on the road ASAP, instead taking my time to do things right. 

Definitely let us know your range after you break-in the batteries.

About the truck bed, I remember an episode of Mythbusters where they tested a truck with the tailgate down. Its drag coefficient was actually worse and mileage was adversely affected. I know that is much different than a bed cover, but I could see that going either way. When your ammeter works, you will have a very solid way to try different things to see what helps.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

mhud
Yes! I seen that very same episode, but what I read on the internet and my personal experiences with an 89 ford ranger.
Their findings weren’t all together accurate, well they may have been.
I believe the drag coefficient is probably true on the more newer models due to the Auto. Mfg. improving on the over all aerodynamics of the newer models. 
I know on my 2004 the mileage isn’t increased with the tailgate down, but on that old ford ranger I did see an increase with the bed cover.

What are you converting? And yes, take your time. I enjoyed the project of converting the s-10.
Be sure to start a build thread here on the forum


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

DONEAL said:


> What are you converting? And yes, take your time. I enjoyed the project of converting the s-10.
> Be sure to start a build thread here on the forum


I am doing a '73 VW Beetle. Keeping it simple -- no power steering or assisted brakes. I've started a page in the Garage and I am keeping a blog on Wordpress. I should post here, too, though. I have read a lot here and I've probably learned as much here as I have with the "Convert Your Own Electric Car" book. 

Garage page: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/225
Project blog: http://mhud.com/


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

mhud
I checked out your VW, I also looked around for a VW to convert, but found the s-10 and decided on it.
Yes, this is a great forum. I too have learned a lot from the members and still learning new things. There is a few things I would have done different, and I think I will put them in a list and post them.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

(12/27/09) went for another drive 11 miles round trip everything went just great until I was close to home. I noticed some whine coming from the transmission, but I passed it off as just being able to hear it. The electric motor is so quite,
Also I don’t hear my controller until, I either drive at a snail pace or when I’m pulling in the carport. 
I was expecting to hear a louder whine from the controller. At least the you tube videos I’ve watched, I’ve always hear the controller whine.

(12/28/09)This morning I decided to drive it to work. I’m really proud of my EV and wanted to start driving it on a regular basis. 
Also several guys at work are wanting to see it as well.
I got about 1 to 2 miles from home and heard a loud clatter and then it was if I slammed on the brakes or downshifted to 1st gear.
I pulled over to the shoulder of the road and that was as far as I got. 
Pulled it back home, put it back on the back porch removed the control board and pulled the motor. 
Time spent 2 ½ hours. By the way also got stuck in my yard and had to call a friend with a four wheel drive to pull me out. Time spent about 2 hours. This hasn’t been a good day.
(12/29/09)
Made a few calls about another transmission and I think I found one. It’s going to be this weekend before I know.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

(1-1-10)
Just need to update my build thread. Pulled the old trany, and when I took the drive shaft out discovered why the transmission failed. The manual transmission for a s-10 use automatic trans fluid, which should be red when it leaks out. Not pink, which indicates water mixed in with it. I assume the previous owner must have been stuck in a creek. I cant think of any other way water could have gotten in it. I can kick my self in the rear, I thought about draining it, and putting in new. Just never got around to it. Our company mechanic told me it probably wouldn’t have made a difference, he said the damage was more than likely already done. I will be changing the gear oil in the differential before I go back on the road.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

(1-2-10)
Purchased another transmission. Drove about 260 miles round trip to pick it up. It’s out of a 94 s-10, now If I was putting this into an ICE it wouldn’t interchange due to the bell housing. 
The bell housing wont interchange where the transmission bolts up. The bolt pattern where the engine bolts are the same with the exception of the starter is on opposite sides.
The exchange is going have the following changes; Clutch disks were different. So had to take the disk pads off from the disk and drill out the holes to bolt to motor coupling. 
Note: the metal used in making clutch disks is very hard! Destroyed several drill bits drilling out the holes to the proper diameter.
Will have to make some kind of cover, to cover the hole where the starter use to be.









NOTE: the bat. Drill was used to drill out the rivets only, had to use my drill press to drill the bolt holes.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Update on the mechanical side.
Got the transmission and motor installed today, next weekend I will put the control board back in.
I will state that the control board is a well planed out design, glad now, I followed it. Two bolts, un hook the motor leads, then just un plug the wires and it’s out. 
Also on my to do list is changing the gear oil in the differential.
Cant explain how disappointing it is to break down in less than 30 EV miles. But no fault to the EV components. I should have checked the trany fluid.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Spent about 8 hours reinstalled motor and transmission. Drained and refilled differential with new oil. 
Old differential gear oil was needing changed but didn’t have any water in it.
While the truck was still up on jack stands, I ran it through all the gears. Transmission was quite and smooth. 
1/18/2010
Purchased new tires and I will need to replace one rim (wheel) the tire shop said it balanced out but they thought it may be warped. 
It’s just a stock rim, so should be able to pick up one at a salvage yard fairly inexpensive. Re charged the battery pack 12 hours and read the “kill-a-watt” meter, and it cost .26 cents to charge back to full state.
1-19-2010
Only thing left to do is to put the hood back on and the trim around the shifter boot, maybe an hour. Should have it back on the road this weekend.


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## joshg678 (Jan 25, 2009)

Awesome dude, glad to know its alive again!


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

Great job! I'm glad you were unhurt and the damage to the vehicle was not too bad. 

Still, not great, but you bounced back pretty quickly.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Mhud and joshg678
Thanks! Yes, I’m getting anxious to get her back on the road again. Also I want to record some good data on the batteries.
I think I’m the only one on this forum using the Power Cheq modules. I have done some preliminary checks and all the batteries are always equalized.
It’s going to be interesting to see how these work as far as extending the range and life of the pack.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Back on the road again, drove her 10 miles. It just may be all in my head, but seems like the old trany had more acceleration.
I really haven’t drove it enough to make a determination. 
Surely there isn’t any gear ratio difference between a 92 and a 94 transmission?
I plan on test driving more this weekend.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Did another test drive 24 miles on the way back I turned on the headlights and already had the defroster and wipers running. 
The 12 v aux. battery didn’t hold up, went to 11 vdc and I charged overnight and discovered that it is dead, so have to buy another battery.
The aux. battery is over 3 years old, so no big deal, kinda thought I would have to replace it anyway.


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## jondoh (Sep 8, 2008)

I didn't buy my DC-DC converter from these guys:

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=b3363d55bc20395616b8d2e75abcbfe8


But, Holy Smokes! $74 for a 400 watt DCDC converter is a fantastic price! (I paid $130 for my Kelly DCDC converter) If you were going to buy a new battery anyway, I think the money may be better spent on converter... plus a used battery.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

DONEAL said:


> I have read several comments about the “air drag” of the S-10, so I decided to build an air plenum at the radiator opening forcing the air down and under the truck. Hopefully this will reduce the drag. I’ve also installed vents on front and sides. Hopefully this will let in air without a lot of water. I already had all the materials to build it so, nothing wasted but time.


have you hooked up any kind of temp monitoring to the motor? that is to make sure it is staying cool enough? with that in place to me i looks like your blocking air from cooling the motor. while i have gotten much into the E.M. im no EE either. from i recall that the cooler the E.M.'s stay the more efficient they are. could be a simple modification to the plenum to direct some of the air to the motor.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

jondoh said:


> I didn't buy my DC-DC converter from these guys:
> 
> http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=b3363d55bc20395616b8d2e75abcbfe8
> 
> ...


jondoh
Great find, I paid 521.00 for mine. It is a IOTA. I read a post where you need a relay for this dc dc converter, 
I will find my manual and figure this out. It has some kind of jumper wire connection that also needs to be installed. I think other wise it just wont keep up with all the 12 volt accessories, lights, wipers, etc.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Evilsizer
Yes, I do have vents on both sides behind the grill, and on both sides of the plenum, also I used the air intake that went to the old ICE carburetor and pointed it down towards the motor fan. 
It’s hard to see in the picture. 
The fb1-40001a motor does have a “overtemp” heat switch built in it and I do have it hook to a warning light and buzzer. I will keep an eye on the motor temperature this summer. 
There was another post about a temperature sending sensor that one could epoxy to the motor and it would let you know what the actual temperature is. I will also be looking into this later as well.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

going back to your other post in another thread. if you want to try it, i think you would have enough room in the plenum (front) to fit a wind (squirrel cage fan blades). then you could self wind the coils for it, i havent looked into winding coils yet. to figure out how to get X voltage and Current needed. it is just IMO the wind regen system would offer a higher % energy regen then say regen braking or using solar cells. im looking for someone that might be able to help me with my thought.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Evilsizer
Yes, there is room for the squirrel cage fan. And Yes, I have made up my mind to try it out. 
But I was thinking about using the old alternator for the power. Since I’ve saved it from the conversion.
I’m not real sure about self wind the coils? You lost me, I don’t know much about “x voltage” are you suggesting that I make my own generator/alternator?


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

DONEAL said:


> Evilsizer
> Yes, there is room for the squirrel cage fan. And Yes, I have made up my mind to try it out.
> But I was thinking about using the old alternator for the power. Since I’ve saved it from the conversion.
> I’m not real sure about self wind the coils? You lost me, I don’t know much about “x voltage” are you suggesting that I make my own generator/alternator?


the winding the coils would only be needed if you tried to make the "alt" your self. 

to get the voltage you need your are going to have to look into "isolated ground alternators". that way you can get the voltage you need to the batteries or do a tie in to the motor for more current with the batteries.

*edit*
my brain jumps some times and i forget things to post.. yes i was suggestion you make your own generator/alternator. that way you can get the voltage you need to charge or do power tie in. the Alternator from the ICE system would only do 13.8V, how would you use that? are you going to drive just the 12V system or is there something in the charging method that can use only the 12v to charge individual batteries?


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Evilsizer
I think just for my first step, (experiment ) I would just power the 12 volt system. Alternators are capable of producing more than 13.8 vdc.
Should this work, Then I would look further in trying to add back some to the main pack.
I will have to do some major research into how to wire it up to the main (144v ) pack. 
A fellow E.V.r told me he has a alternator that he uses and it puts out 100 vdc. He runs the alternator off a small gas engine to re charge his main pack 96 vdc.
I just need to experiment and do a lot more research.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

well if you had your 12v system on a separate 12v battery you could charge that with it. since im sorry to say im not sure how you would tie it into a 144v. another thing that came to mind is that you may have to block off the lower portion at the grill. to force air in at the top portion that would then hit one section of the blades. as you said it will require research but im thinking with forced air, not directed. would not allow it to spin.

after finding these
http://www.survivalunlimited.com/windpower/pmas.htm
i was thinking about using one of these..


> *SC12 Quad Core - *Only $*439.95
> 
> 
> 
> ...


or


> *SC120 - *Only $*355.95
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Evilsizer
Thanks for the alternator information, I bookmarked the page! I agree about the front, and It would be easy to direct the air to the fan blades.
Even if I have to re design the air plenum to accomplish it. The whole thing can be taken out in about 30 minutes. 
If it will produce 12 volts, with the stock alternator, then I cant see why it wont produce more especially with one of these new type of alternators.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

DONEAL said:


> Evilsizer
> Thanks for the alternator information, I bookmarked the page! I agree about the front, and It would be easy to direct the air to the fan blades.
> Even if I have to re design the air plenum to accomplish it. The whole thing can be taken out in about 30 minutes.
> If it will produce 12 volts, with the stock alternator, then I cant see why it wont produce more especially with one of these new type of alternators.


when you mount the alt. as a precaution i would mount it in the plenum. that way it get cooling from the forced air, unless you plan to use the same intake for the E.M. Though to have it also routed over the Alt., just need to make sure it gets some kind of cooling not to not kill it. after thinking about it, IMO the second PMA i linked to would be best. as i haven been able to find if those PMA's can be linked ie in series or parallel for what im thinking. 

one thing i see though with those is the possibility to make a high current EV charger. that is assuming the second PMA can be wired in parallel with another for more current. i have found a small 10HP 2cly diesel engine on Ebay. if done right you could hook up say 4-6 of those PMA's to it. one thing i thought of was grabbing used cooking oil for making biodiesel. odd part is from the two wallmarts alone i could get est. 124 gallons of oil. thats after they change the oil once a week.. sorry for going off a different direction but is something else to think about imo.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Just a update 236 EV miles, been driving it to work and have got several good comments about it.
I’m using The Maxx-29 batteries and so far they seem to be working fine. 
I purchased all 12 at the same time from the same store. 
I asked the dept. manger to order them for me, that I wanted them to be all from the same lot and that I would pay in advance if I needed too, she said that no, it wouldn’t be necessary, that she would call me the day they came in.
She also told me the day the battery truck ran so I wouldn’t have to haul the 12 core batteries around for a week. Any way it work out great. 
I’m using “power cheq” modules to keep the pack equalized and this also seems to be working out. I’ve checked them several times and will keep checking since this is new.
I’ve added 2 qt.s of distilled water since I’ve started. I’m using one of the battery water can that has the auto shut off valve built on it. 
I did find out that the plastic valve on the spout has a lip on it and the battery has a recessed grove the same thickness and the spout will get stuck, but if you hold it at a slight angle it works fine.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

how goes the wind add in? if the wind deal doesnt work out, someone did have a good idea. use a solar panel to charge a 12v or 24v bank that then powered a DC-AC inverter. then recharge the main bank from this smaller one. there are dual voltage AC inverters, meaning they can put out 120vAC or 240vAC. i need to check something out but in my head it seems that either a 12vDC or 24vDC to 240vAC inverter would be more efficient. as with 240vAC you could charge the bank faster, i guess that depends on the charger your using.


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## joshg678 (Jan 25, 2009)

Evilsizer said:


> how goes the wind add in? if the wind deal doesnt work out, someone did have a good idea. use a solar panel to charge a 12v or 24v bank that then powered a DC-AC inverter. then recharge the main bank from this smaller one. there are dual voltage AC inverters, meaning they can put out 120vAC or 240vAC. i need to check something out but in my head it seems that either a 12vDC or 24vDC to 240vAC inverter would be more efficient. as with 240vAC you could charge the bank faster, i guess that depends on the charger your using.


That would be interesting thing to do, cover the car with solar panels (1 for each battery?) that could charge durring the day give you some free miles possibly.
http://www.siliconsolar.com has a large selection of flexible solar panels that you could easily rig something on the s10, use the hood, the roof, and get a bed cover and put a bunch there too. You might could give your self a few extra miles, who knows.
I love solar panels, and yet i don't own one yet :/


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Well, I haven’t worked on the squirrel cage fan yet, but I will, it will probably be this spring, planning around late March or April .
Really not sure about the solar panels and inverters, the biggest problem with inverters isn’t the voltage it’s the amps. 
I have read a post where someone actually mounted solar panels on an EV and seen the pictures. They were huge about the size of the truck.
On the same note I read a post where someone mounted the solar panels on there house, not only did they charge their EV, but off set the total electric bill. I do know the solar panel technology has come along way.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Just an update: 693 ev miles and going strong. Have not bought any gas for 6 weeks. Was spending 50.00 every 2 weeks. 
The G.M. was at my office today and I showed him my conversion. It went great, He was impressed and he is an Electrical engineer. He asked if I had a meter that I was plug in to, and I said Yes, I think he was just joking, but I showed him the Kill-a-Watt meter and my usage is up to $7.93. I told him as soon as it hit the $10.00 mark I would go to the main office and pay. He is a great boss. The Old GM told me not to plug in at work, but I don’t know if he was serious or not.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

I don't see why they would care if you are paying for the electricity that you are using but that's just me I guess. Sounds like all the hard work is really paying off!


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

thats really cool! glad you got a GM that gets it!


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey DONEAL, again, great work!

A real stickler might object to charging if they're worried about the current draw, but that is almost certainly not a problem at a commercial building. 

I've tripped my circuit breaker at home when my wife was using her hair dryer and my car was charging at max current. My car draws a maximum of 12 amps on a 110 circuit, which doesn't seem like a lot. 

I'm lucky, the garage at work has two EV charging spots, but I can't use them because they also happen to be handicap spots. 

They are going to move the EV charging stations for me, though. I told them I could just use the regular outlets that they have scattered around the garage, but they want to move their dedicated circuit.


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## Glow Guy (Mar 14, 2010)

Hey. This is my first post 

Great conversion. I have recently returned to school and we have an Alternative Powered Vehicles club that I have joined and will be doing an S-10 conversion as well. It was good to get a glimpse of what we will be doing.

I also have been a part of the American Wind Energy Assoc. email list for about 5-6 years, and have seen the "why can't we add a wind gen to an ev to extend the range" topic many times before. I'll see if I can give a reasonable and quick explanation of why that doesn't really work. In a perfect environment on a flat surface the truck is moved forward by the power in the batteries, going through the controller and motor through the trans. to the tires. Enough power has to overcome inertia, friction and drag. Wind turbines slow down the air as they convert air speed into rotational forces. The generator/alternator on the wind turbine will not be at 100% efficiency, so there is some loss. Since the proposed wind turbine is mounted to the vehicle and the vehicle moving forward is responsible for creating the wind for the turbine, the net energy is negative. 

Energy generated from WT - Energy used from batteries = Negative energy return. Or as the saying goes, "no free lunch".
I having been up too late studying and may have missed some terms but hopefully that conveys the idea. Enjoy the EV but don't bother trying to use it to capture wind power.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Evilsizer said:


> how goes the wind add in? if the wind deal doesnt work out, someone did have a good idea. use a solar panel to charge a 12v or 24v bank that then powered a DC-AC inverter. then recharge the main bank from this smaller one. there are dual voltage AC inverters, meaning they can put out 120vAC or 240vAC. i need to check something out but in my head it seems that either a 12vDC or 24vDC to 240vAC inverter would be more efficient. as with 240vAC you could charge the bank faster, i guess that depends on the charger your using.



you are better off installing a PV system grid-tied on your house so you can claim tax credits, and potentially bargain with local utility for REC payment if they do that in your area.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

procupine14
I’m sure he was Joking. 
The answer to the reason why most employers don’t want there employees to charge at work, is because everyone is under the opinion that charging an EV is going to suck up a bunch juice.
It cost me about .50 cents to charge 8 hours at work. Even if it was a $ 1.00 I would still come out ahead. Driving my 04 chevy I use $ 5.00 a day for Gas.

mhud
Glad to hear your employer lets you charge at work too. Education on how much it cost to charge an EV is the key. We need to get the word out that It just don’t cost that much.

dtbaker
>“you are better off installing a PV system grid-tied on your house so you can claim tax credits,”<
I agree on the PV system and I’m interested and looking into it. 
From what I have read even if I didn’t have an EV, I would see a big saveings on my electric bill.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

yeah I am sure he was. Yeah that was the first thing that my parents said when I told them that I was contemplating an EV build they said, "well there goes your electric bill through the roof!" hahaha!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DONEAL said:


> I agree on the PV system and I’m interested and looking into it.
> From what I have read even if I didn’t have an EV, I would see a big saveings on my electric bill.


the financial justification doesn't really work unless your local utility has a REC buyback program. With just tax incentives the payback is too long for most people; with a REC program on top of net metering payback is down to about 10 years... or like a 4% CD with monthly dividend, except at the end of 10 years the collateral sits on the roof and keeps making/saving money.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Glow Guy
Welcome to the Forum! Thanks for the positive comments. The S-10 does have a good platform for a conversion. I’m use to driving a full size pickup so the s-10 seams small and cramped, but it’s just me.
I agree 100% there is no “free lunch” and I’m not even convinced that once I build it that it will work. There has been several post on our forum about the same subject. 
My goal is not to even break even, but to add back just a little of what is wasted. Here is my logic or lack of logic which ever the case may be. 
First, there has been great advancement to alternators or at least it’s new to me. The web page that Evilsizer gave me http://www.survivalunlimited.com/windpower/pmas.htm
Claims to have one that will produce 12 vdc just by spinning it by hand. I know that a regular alternator (that’s energized) wont.
Second: I also agree about “drag” This is my thoughts. The drag is already present, most conversions simply block off the radiator opening and place batteries in this place. Doing so creates a lot of drag. 
When I did my conversion I put all the batteries in the back. This left the radiator opening, so I made an air plenum to reduce any drag.
Any loss due to drag from a wind turbine placed in this area would simply be a wash out, in other words weather its there or not it would be the same amount of drag.
If everything goes as planed, I will start to work on it this week end. I have most of the material needed to experiment with. I may have to buy a pulley and a v belt. 
My first plan is to use the old alternator that was on the old ICE but it use a serpentine belt so I will need to replace the pulley 
To borrow an old cliché nothing venture nothing gained, I will also post my results even if it’s a failure. If indeed is a failure then someone may see where it failed and improve on it. 
Hopefully if they do then maybe they will be just as eager to share there experiences.
My dilemma is: I cant convince myself that it will work and I cant convince myself that it wont work. 
I would like everyone to know that I’m am not trying to create Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity etc.
Sorry for making a long post but I’m very interested in any “feed back” on this.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DONEAL said:


> Second: I also agree about “drag” This is my thoughts. The drag is already present, most conversions simply block off the radiator opening and place batteries in this place. Doing so creates a lot of drag.
> When I did my conversion I put all the batteries in the back. This left the radiator opening, so I made an air plenum to reduce any drag.
> Any loss due to drag from a wind turbine placed in this area would simply be a wash out, in other words weather its there or not it would be the same amount of drag.


...that is the key, whether there is more drag with an open plenum to your wind turbine than a smooth closed frontal area. You probably would not be able to measure the difference without a lab wind tunnel, but I bet the added drag will be just about what you might be able to extract with a little turbine.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

DONEAL said:


> My dilemma is: I cant convince myself that it will work and I cant convince myself that it wont work.
> I would like everyone to know that I’m am not trying to create Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity etc.
> Sorry for making a long post but I’m very interested in any “feed back” on this.


hehe i put the bug in your ear about that.  well the idea is to be along the lines of reg-braking. it meant to capture energy as your driving since you are generating air flow over/around/threw the truck. at low speeds this wont work so well but will work better up at around 50-55+ speeds. it comes down to the blade design on the mini-mill, since there are some wind turbines that there blades start moving in air speeds as low as 3mph.

there was one website/link someone posted. two students in high-school did a concept EV-super car that used two wind tunnles on the front for this exact purpose. could use this wind generation in tandem with the battery so less current is pulled from the batteries(if you can get the same voltage as the pack voltage). the other way would be like someone else i saw suggest. though it had to do with solar it could still be applied here. use the wind turbine to feed power to a small voltage battery bank-> inverter-> charger-> main battery bank.

either that Doneal or you might consider a 12v solar system to charge the small bank for the main bank charging. depending on how much power you want to put back into the system. it could be a small solar panel or larger one.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> ...that is the key, whether there is more drag with an open plenum to your wind turbine than a smooth closed frontal area. You probably would not be able to measure the difference without a lab wind tunnel, but I bet the added drag will be just about what you might be able to extract with a little turbine.


dtbaker
Very good point! It’s kind like “splitting hairs” . If we were building race cars, then aerodynamics would pay a big role. As far as an EV goes we just need to be aware of it and just do what we can. 
The same goes for weight reduction there is just so much you can do without spending a great deal of money. I’ve read where some EV builders don’t carry a spare tire, reason to reduce weight. 
This would be fine if you were driving a NEV and never left the city but to be broke down on the side of the road at 5:30 am due to a flat and no spare tire, well to me the little extra weight isn’t an issue.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Evilsizer
>“there was one website/link someone posted. two students in high-school did a concept EV-super car that used two wind tunnles on the front for this exact purpose.”<

Yes, In researching I came across a similar page, however this particular page they were trying to power the EV solely by generation. 
My plans is to put in any power generated back into the main pack. Just as you stated “along the lines of reg-braking”.
And Yes >“hehe i put the bug in your ear about that.”< you did . And It just might work.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

My Charger has quit, I contacted “QuickCharge” and they told me to send it back to them. It has a 3 year warranty. I purchased it a year ago but it’s only been in use since Dec. 09. 
So took it off and it’s ready to send. I guess if it wasn’t for bad luck, I wouldn’t have any luck at all.
This gives me a chance to work on the wind turbine experiment, I really wasn’t to start it right now, but since the s-10 is down for awhile, It’s as good as a time as any to start to play with it


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

any updates don?


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Yes, I do have some updates, I’ve been busy with other projects and failed to do a update.
I got the s-10 back on the road again, 1132 EV miles. The on board charger was covered under warranty.
Worked on the wind turbine Idea and got it installed, It’s working but not generating any voltage yet.
Not sure, but I dont think it isn’t turning fast enough. I’m only getting about 300 to 400 rpms. 
With a 2 to 1 ratio this would give me around 600 to 800 rpm on the alternator. If my math is correct? 
I have a 5” pulley on the squirrel cage fan and a 2 ½” (62mm) pulley on the alternator. I was hoping for at least 500 rpm so I could get at least 1000 rpm on the alternator. 
I do believe this is a working Idea, just got to work out the “bugs” I’m using a 10” squirrel cage fan, that was free. 
I would like to have a 12” fan and I need more information on how fast the alternator needs to turn. I could get a larger drive pulley, but I think I would loose torque and it wouldn’t turn the alternator. Just not sure.


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

do you have any pictures of how you have this setup? how did you modify that "air dam" (what im gonna call it right now) where the radiator would have been.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Yes, here is a couple of pictures One is from the front as you can see where the radiator was. 
The second is from the side. I haven’t taken any pictures since I installed the alternator, but it is installed on the right side brace that the control board rest on. It was simple to mount due to I already had most of the work already done. Not for this but just to let the air flow through and under the truck.


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

Doneal,

I've got a couple of theories about the efficiency of your squirrel-cage charger. Mind you, these are not based on any research I have done.

My first thought is that aerodynamics may be affecting the ability of the air to penetrate the grill and thus propel the fan. When your grill is affixed, it only allows a small portion of the air striking the front of the truck to enter and pass through the radiator, or whatever. The majority of the air follows the path of least resistance over, under or around the truck. You'll also note that a lot of newer cars do not rely entirely on air flowing through the grill. They have an opening unfettered by grillwork located beneath the bumper to ingest the majority of the air going through the radiator.

Secondly, the alternator adds resistance to the rotation of the fan assembly. The faster the alternator spins, the more resistance it creates. If you follow drag racing at all, you'll note that most racers use a larger pulley on the alternator to slow it down, and thus lessen the horsepower drain.

So what I think I'm trying to say is you need to provide more air through the grill, perhaps even aiming it toward the top half of the cage and blocking flow to the bottom of the cage, and slow the speed of the alternator so as to lessen the drag on the cage. If you can get enough speed out of the cage to spin the alternator equivalent of 12-1500 rpm ICE idle, you should be able to charge your pack.

I fear we might be wandering into one of those perpetual motion scenarios, however.


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey DONEAL,

I'm glad to see you've passed 1,000 miles already! I have done about 100 so far.

I was thinking, if you are going to re-wire an alternator to provide the pack voltage of 144v, why not hook it up to the free end of your motor?

You could wire the alternator to the brake light circuit, so if you get on the brake enough to turn the brake lights on, the alternator's field would engage and begin to slow the truck and generate current, as long as you left the truck in gear. 

It seems that the wind collector is fun but it will add a constant source of drag for the benefit of occasional generation. Could you put that air to better use by ducting it over your motor or controller?


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Electromet
perpetual motion scenarios, NO way, there isn’t any free lunch. There is no way a fan assembly would ever produce more than is being consumed by the motor.
About the aerodynamics , I agree, as you can see in the picture the brace that the hood latch is on is dead center and is blocking some of the air flow. 
About the “alternator adds resistance” to the rotation of the fan assembly. Again I agree, however, I am getting 300 to 400 rpm. This is with the alternator energized. 
About “aiming it toward the top half of the cage and blocking flow to the bottom of the cage”
Yes, I need to do some more modifications. It would be great if I could make some sort of “funnel” behind the grill to direct more air movement to the fan assembly. 
If I could get the alternator to produce some current, then I would purchase a wind generator. The web page I read are claming their’s will produce 12 volts just spinning by hand. My goal is to get back as much as, or more than you could with regenerative braking


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

don,
i got a idea that would work out to spin the fan faster and it would be a ducting way. though what you need is to duct the air in, then on the exiting side of the duct. use a smaller exit to the fan, this will increase air _velocity, then what you would get now. along with that you might be able to get what you need by using only half the fan.

thinking bout it using the smaller section of the fan might be the way to go. if air velocity is high enough on the exit side of the duct you should get your RPM range __(idle maybe higher)__ you need to get power from the alt. as well with the half fan setup you might even be able to do a direct couple to the alt. this would one cut down on the over size and two be simpler in design IMO. no need to worry about extra gears or belts/pulleys.


*all just ideas in my head, not sure how well this will work out. will be nice to see it for sure since your doing in don*
_


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

mhud said:


> Hey DONEAL,
> I'm glad to see you've passed 1,000 miles already! I have done about 100 so far.


Thanks, It's been fun!


mhud said:


> I was thinking, if you are going to re-wire an alternator to provide the pack voltage of 144v,


Not sure if this can be done? 144v from 12v alternator


mhud said:


> why not hook it up to the free end of your motor?


This would be like perpetual motion Just wont work due to more energy used to turn the alternator than would be produced.


mhud said:


> You could wire the alternator to the brake light circuit, so if you get on the brake enough to turn the brake lights on, the alternator's field would engage and begin to slow the truck and generate current, as long as you left the truck in gear.


regenerative braking 
Yes there is several that do this. 


mhud said:


> It seems that the wind collector is fun but it will add a constant source of drag for the benefit of occasional generation. Could you put that air to better use by ducting it over your motor or controller?


About, drag, well I think it's a "trade off" most conversions I've seen just block off the radiator opening anyway. I do have air vents for the motor and controller


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Evilsizer said:


> don,
> i got a idea that would work out to spin the fan faster and it would be a ducting way. though what you need is to duct the air in, then on the exiting side of the duct. use a smaller exit to the fan, this will increase air _velocity, then what you would get now. along with that you might be able to get what you need by using only half the fan._


Well, the picture of the air plenum doesn’t show it, but the bottom or exit is smaller and curved under the truck.
I have a friend at work that knows a lot about working with fiberglass, I’m going to talk with him about how to direct the air from the front, behind the grill, directing it to the fan opening.
Thanks, Keep the ideas coming, after all this is just an “experiment in progress”


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

any chance you can get a pic of that don? to get a better idea of where/what your talking about. imma try to do a drawing in my head for ya...


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

The last thing I wanted to look like is someone preaching that perpetual motion is possible... 

I am confused -- what is the purpose of the fan and alternator if not for regen? Someone earlier mentioned rewinding the alternator for pack voltage so I thought you were going to try it. 

Are you trying to see if there's enough 'wasted' aerodynamic inefficiency that you could power an alternator and recharge your aux battery without too much more of an additional aero penalty?


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## Evilsizer (Jan 25, 2010)

mhud said:


> The last thing I wanted to look like is someone preaching that perpetual motion is possible...


someone thought i was trying to do that by suggesting what don is doing.



mhud said:


> I am confused -- what is the purpose of the fan and alternator if not for regen? Someone earlier mentioned rewinding the alternator for pack voltage so I thought you were going to try it.
> 
> Are you trying to see if there's enough 'wasted' aerodynamic inefficiency that you could power an alternator and recharge your aux battery without too much more of an additional aero penalty?


yea it is for regen, the whole thing why i suggested it is this. the truck is already causing air movement when you drive. why not have it work for in a regen way. even if you get 15-25% back from using the fan+alt setup it (after testing) could be more efficient then just break regen. the other side is you could then combine the two for a higher regen. one while driving and the other while braking/slowing down. one could do the smaller bank voltage and the other the higher pack voltage.

on top of that don's S-10 is from the 80's, looks like a square box. it isnt that aerodynamic to begin with so even if he just blocked off the rad area. it wouldn't help if any for aerodynamic's, so here again, why not use what they did to the truck? they have openings to route air to the rad. use a duct and have it get narrower and narrower. that way it rises air velocity to get the fan to spin at what the alt would, at idle or in higher rpm. the deal is, is to charger a smaller bank either 12v or 24v. then use a inverter to 120v or 240v, feed to the charger for you main pack. even with voltage loss from converting you might lose 5% not sure, haven't looked much into that yet. 

if needed or another thought is, you could run two alt's in parallel. as far as getting higher voltage from alts. you need ones that are setup for stacking, its what they call it for running them in series. i dont think the rewinding is out of the question but might be hard to do either that or just remove the diodes from the alt to see what kind of voltage they put out. since all car alts. use diodes to convert AC to DC. doing that then would solve the voltage conversion loss but then you would need a different way to store the energy. a capacitor bank is out of the question since for a high enough watt-hour's to be useful its going to be huge.

*this is how i kinda pitched it do Don in PM. sorry if i say things you already know, i'm just trying to give background on where i'm coming from.*


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey DONEAL,

I'm wondering how the PowerCheq modules are working out for you. 

I have 10 x 12V AGM batteries and I simply cannot keep them balanced.


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

They are working great, they keep the whole pack in ballance


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## YlliB (Aug 27, 2011)

Doneal,

Are you still around? Have enjoyed reading about your project. You said you were going to post an article in the Technical area about the wiring harness. I am at the point where I have to decide what to do with the engine harness. Was wondering if you ever posted it and how to find it if you did. I have a 2000 S10. Thanks. 

Bill Yancey


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## DONEAL (Sep 10, 2008)

Yes, I'm still here. I havent log on in along time, but I check from time to time the new post.
"You said you were going to post an article in the Technical area about the wiring harness."
no, never did. It would have been several pages long and hard to describe. To sum it up in a short post. You can fool the on board computer to think that the engin is still there by finding out the values (voltage signal)the sensors sends to the computer. This sounds hard, but it's not. It can be done with resistors purchased at radio shack.


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## Dameon (Sep 19, 2011)

DONEAL said:


> To sum it up in a short post. You can fool the on board computer to think that the engin is still there by finding out the values (voltage signal)the sensors sends to the computer. This sounds hard, but it's not. It can be done with resistors purchased at radio shack.


Easier said than done, unless you have a pin-out of the ECU. 

Were you able to utilize your factory speedometer? What about A/C vent control (assuming I have an on-board vacuum pump)? Do I have to retain the ECU for this functionality? Were you able to determine min/max values on the factory fuel gauge? Does it operate off standard resistance or does it use voltage level? I would like to utilize that as a crude battery meter. 

My donor is a 1995 model, but should be fairly similar to yours. I'd hate to recreate the wheel if I can learn from your experiences. 

By the way, just noticed you're from AR. I grew up in Fayetteville. Nice area, I just don't like cold and snow. 

Thanks.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

DONEAL, I'd like to ask a couple questions. First off, I reread the entire thread so I didn't overlook something obvoius {I hope }. 

Now that you've cycled the batteries a number of times I wanted to know what your experience is with your WalMart Maxx 29 Batteries? What kind of range did they provide when initially broken in and have you lost noticable range since you've been driving it?


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## Sarbuilder (Apr 20, 2012)

Doneil
I saw in your old thread about ducting air into radiator area, I had this problem with a gas Ford Courier. I installed a air dam off a mustang gt350 that had a duct in the center for radiator ducting. I had to narrow it to fit, but it worked. It might be a problem in the snow, but it is worth looking at. I'm getting ready to start an ev project maybe a vw bus. Think you for your time and I hope my rambling helps.

Will aka Sarbuilder


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

mhud said:


> Hey DONEAL,
> 
> I'm wondering how the PowerCheq modules are working out for you.
> 
> I have 10 x 12V AGM batteries and I simply cannot keep them balanced.


PM me, i have some stuff u need.


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