# Land Rover 88" Series 2A, Nissan Leaf conversion.



## Pehr (Jun 6, 2021)

Cool conversion. Will you use Resolve-EV to control the Leaf parts?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

MOQ 5 on the frames, lol?


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## niklaskinn (Nov 27, 2021)

Welcome. 
this will be is a nice conversion to follow.
Wath will you do with gearbox.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Pehr said:


> Cool conversion. Will you use Resolve-EV to control the Leaf parts?


Thanks! Yes, off cause I will! Swedish design, you know...


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

niklaskinn said:


> Welcome.
> this will be is a nice conversion to follow.
> Wath will you do with gearbox.


Thanks, I don't know yet. I am struggling allot with the transmission solution still and will come back to that later in this thread. You can see some of the discussion in the "Land Rover 1965" thread. It will be either: 

Double motor
Motor direct to transfer
The Nissan Leaf gear box mounted alongside with changed gear ratio.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

remy_martian said:


> MOQ 5 on the frames, lol?


????


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Alxles removed to be renovated. One of the front hubs were very loose...









Again, playing around allot with cardboard boxes to see how I can fit the battery modules under the bonnet. No 3 scanner or CAD here... 








Shortening the longest battery module.


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey Tor, I have the chassis modelled so if you tell me you’re configuration I can check it for you?


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey Tor, I have the chassis modelled so if you tell me you’re configuration I can check it for you
BTW - this looks like a clean package but I’m not sure what they did with the steering relay


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> MOQ 5 on the frames, lol?





Elektrotor said:


> ????


That threw me at first, too...
"MOQ" is presumably "minimum order quantity", referring to the stack of five frames shown.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

brian_ said:


> That threw me at first, too...
> "MOQ" is presumably "minimum order quantity", referring to the stack of five frames shown.


Not really! 😂 A friend of mine whent over with a lorry and filled it with LR parts. ( lots of trouble with Brexit) I only got one frame out of the five. I thought it was a beautiful picture though, with all five frames stacked up in the sunshine!☀


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## niklaskinn (Nov 27, 2021)

Elektrotor said:


> View attachment 126519
> Alxles removed to be renovated. One of the front hubs were very loose...
> 
> View attachment 126520
> ...


Perfect for cardboard boxes. No cac 😂
I made a stack of an old mattress cut in size of 4 modules then I could se som different setup.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Now back to the discussion about the transmission. I have been struggling with this for a while and are currently looking at three different solutions:
First the Transfer case solution. I have a LT 230 box that can be renovated and set up with 1,67:1 high and 3,3:1 low gear. It is also shorter than the original transfer case. (not lighter?)
It also features the normal diff lock and hand brake. (I would replace it with a disc brake. I have here made a rough line up in the frame and could either connect it with a motor through a torque tube from the front or rear using the PTO. (Not both at the same time!). 
































The motor ends up in the engine bay if mounted in the front. (With less space for batteries as a result.)








Or under the middle seat if it is mounted behind the transfer case and connected to the PTO. As you can see it will not be trivial to connect the 3 phases to it. As I see it there is not space enough to lay down the motor on the side either? (turn 90 degrees.)








The LT 230 box is also hard to fit. I might have to lower it more which means lower the beam underneath it. 

This setup with one motor either in the front or rear, would give me the following spec:


Max motor speed5 000​rpmMax motor torque250​NMTransfer gear Low 3,3​to 1Transfer gear high1,67​to 1F/R axle4,7​to 1Wheel circumference2,5​mVehicle max speed L/H48​96​km/hWheel shaft torque L/H3 878​1 962​NM

The top speed and output torque are OK, I think. It's at least similar to the original 2nd low and 1st high. 
(A reduction gearbox could be added between motor and transfer case. Torque box for example but is not necessary, as I see it? Less parts => less problem, and cost!)

*Disadvantages:* 
Are the space needed and weight added as well as the losses in the transfer case. I see some challenges to line up and connect the motor and transfer case How to transfer torque between motor and transfer case without having them to twist too much in opposite direction, (torque tube?) and avoid unbalance at the same time, (@ 5 000 rpm input to transfer) ?

*Advantages:*
Ability to use low gear and diff lock. Also Hand brake is relative easy to connect. Maybe even the speedometer output can be used?


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey Tor, yeah it would be nice if you could drop everything down 10cm or so. But it looks like those cross members are not cooperating ;( and you don’t think you’d want to start modifying that new chassis. Does your new chassis have a bolt on transmission cross member? As for the LT230 I think the advantages still outweigh the disadvantages unless you want to use both motors 🤔


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Elektrotor said:


> How to transfer torque between motor and transfer case without having them to twist too much in opposite direction, (torque tube?)...


I think that rigidly coupling the motor and transfer case housings is definitely the way to go; if they are not butted directly against each other, a torque tube is the way to do that.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Spacing the seats up an inch or two shouldn't be a big deal unless you transport dutchmen in the back seat all the time.

Your other option there is to drill three of your own ports in the motor case to feed wires into it at a lower point.


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## VintageVolts (Jul 7, 2020)

It may be worth you looking at Rakeway , they make all manner of stuff to bolt on to LT230s, but probably not cheap. 

I would try to avoid raising the seats up if you can, i'm only 5'10 tall and my head is close to my roof, as well as the bottom of the big steering wheel being close to your..err..thighs 🤣 remember the bottom of the seatbox has a lip that holds the floor plate too. Nothing's impossible with enough effort though of course 👍


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Chris_W said:


> Hey Tor, yeah it would be nice if you could drop everything down 10cm or so. But it looks like those cross members are not cooperating ;( and you don’t think you’d want to start modifying that new chassis. Does your new chassis have a bolt on transmission cross member? As for the LT230 I think the advantages still outweigh the disadvantages unless you want to use both motors 🤔


Hi Chris, I agree!  This is the most practical, doable and "off the shelf" solution. I'll come to the double motor solution soon.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

VintageVolts said:


> It may be worth you looking at Rakeway , they make all manner of stuff to bolt on to LT230s, but probably not cheap.
> 
> Thanks for the Rakeway link! It looks good! I might use them if I go down this road.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

I have been playing around with the EM57 motors in the frame again. Looking for a way to fit one motor for each axle.
Since the front / rear axles are in a different work shop for renovation at the moment I couldn't test out how the prop shafts would look like. But I believe that the rear one will be rather short with a steep angle and there will not be enough space for a reduction gearbox. Unless it's a LWB (which my series IIA isn't). The newer 2*320 Nm motors would be to prefer to get enough wheel torque in that case. 
Alternatively could the rear motor be suspended to line up with the axle somehow to allow it to move up and down. 🤪

































The front one still needs to come further down in order to let the body rest on the frame.

Another crazy idea would be to flip the rear axle over so the rear offset is to the left instead of right and fit both motors under the mid seat. This would still mean that the rear prop is very short and the front very long...










Double motor 320NmFrontRearMotor max speed10 500​10 500​rpmMotor torque320​320​NmReduction gear1​1​to 1F/R axle4,7​4,7​to 1Wheel max speed L/H2 234​2 234​rpmWheel circumference2,5​2,5​mVehicle max speed L/H335​335​km/hTotal torqueTotal powerWheel shaft torque L/H1 504​1 504​Nm3 008​300​

*Disadvantages*
Requires 40 kWh battery to avoid power surge at full throttle.
Requires 2*320 Nm motors (I only have 2*250 Nm available at the moment.) 🤑🤑🤑
Not that high wheel torque, if no reduction gear is fitted.
*Advantages:*
No diff lock needed! 😆
No problem to keep up on the highway! 🤣
Very efficient with low losses!
40 kWh => pretty long range! 

I think this is something for future projects! If I ever build a tough Defender 110" or Toyota Land Cruiser !?


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey Tor, looks like you’ve spent a lot of time shuffling things around. Too bad nothing seems to be ideal. What now? I did like Jens idea of using the one ton transfer case and removing all the clutch/flywheel and gears except 4th. In our case use the stock gearbox/transfer case and only run 3rd. That would give you a 7.45 final ratio? Although I still like the LT230 if it can be done cleanly😉


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## Bratitude (Jan 23, 2020)

The motor torque figures you are referring to have todo with the more powerfulll inverters. The Gen2,3,4,5 etc leafs all use the same motor, the em57. The newer leafs just use more powerful inverters. 110kw and 160kw compared to the older 80kw inverter.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Why not do a mild body lift? Hockey pucks...


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Chris_W said:


> Hey Tor, looks like you’ve spent a lot of time shuffling things around. Too bad nothing seems to be ideal. What now? I did like Jens idea of using the one ton transfer case and removing all the clutch/flywheel and gears except 4th. In our case use the stock gearbox/transfer case and only run 3rd. That would give you a 7.45 final ratio? Although I still like the LT230 if it can be done cleanly😉


Hi Chris, 
Yes, I agree! Seems like nothing fits and it wont fall in place like a jig saw puzzle how much I ever turn the pieces around. If not for the third option. The one that uses the Leaf box as a transfer case with changed gear ratio from 8.1:1 => 4.x:1. I know it's a long shot, will take forever and a month and cost a fortune. But what the heck! I want to build more than one Leaf driven 4*4 and there might be others out there who want the same! Why not try to find the best and most efficient way of doing it? I think it's worth trying at least!
Here is how it could look like. 





































It might be possible to move it further to the front with the cable connections just inside the engine bay. I will try to simulate that next time.












Nissan box with new gear wheelMotor speed10 500​rpmMotor torque254​NmGear ratio4,35​to 1F/R axle4,7​to 1Wheel max speed 514​rpmWheel circumference2,5​mVehicle max speed 77​km/hWheel shaft torque5 193​Nm

I know some people may say 10500 rpm is way too high revs for the EM57 motor. Has there been accidents due to this? If I have counted correct this is the max speed for the Leaf with 150 km/h?
If this is the case, what is safe rpm for continuous speed for that motor? 
I don't want to drive the old series IIA Land Rover any faster than 80 km/h. It will bounce off the road! 🤣 

*Disadvantages:*
Allot of work, time and money to develop the first gear wheel set. 
No diff lock. (If no ATB is implemented)
*Advantages:*
Long prop shafts with favorable angle.
Less space needed! 
Low weight
Low transmission losses
Silent (compared to the old transfer case.)
Possible to implement reduced slip diff. (ATB)?


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## Bratitude (Jan 23, 2020)

I’m currently working on stub flanges and a replacement gearset for the leaf gearbox to use it as a transfer case. There’s talks of getting a quaife ATB made for the leaf diff aswell.

There’s a case where the rotor expanded and came in contact with the stator. This was from pushing high rpm and power out of the motor. I’ll dig up the post.


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## SuperV8 (Jan 22, 2020)

Elektrotor said:


> Hi Chris,
> Yes, I agree! Seems like nothing fits and it wont fall in place like a jig saw puzzle how much I ever turn the pieces around. If not for the third option. The one that uses the Leaf box as a transfer case with changed gear ratio from 8.1:1 => 4.x:1. I know it's a long shot, will take forever and a month and cost a fortune. But what the heck! I want to build more than one Leaf driven 4*4 and there might be others out there who want the same! Why not try to find the best and most efficient way of doing it? I think it's worth trying at least!
> Here is how it could look like.
> 
> ...


Interesting project, learn't to drive in a Series III.
What's the purpose of this vehicle?
will it ever see a muddy field or mountain? If yes then I would definitely recommend a locking/torque biasing center diff otherwise it will be effectively one wheel drive. If just road vehicle would be fine without.

In the example where you drive the transfer box directly with the motor - I did some digging and the main shaft taper roller bearings for the LT230 are Landrover part number are FRC5564.
this is Timken 18790/18720. Can't decipher the Timken specs - but SKF 18790/18720 has a limiting speed (max mechanical speed) of 8000r/min





SKF







www.skf.com






10,390rpm's I have seen as the max RPM for the leaf motor so shouldn't be an issue.


https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape006_burress_2013_o.pdf


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## Bratitude (Jan 23, 2020)

Re high rpm/ power on the leaf motor What happens if you spin a leaf engine >20.000 RPM - openinverter forum
20k rpm and she blew


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

"the logger was not turned on at this time, but according to the noise i've heard it was beyond 20.000. But of course this is just a guess."

Whole lotta science going on there...bovine excremental recitations 🤪


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## Rusted B&B (Nov 6, 2020)

This is very cool project!


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Rusted B&B said:


> This is very cool project!


Thanks!


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## Rusted B&B (Nov 6, 2020)

With the gearbox - couldn't you just weld or lock the diff and use one output to a transfercase/Diff and just use a stub flange on the other side to seal it. Or you that output for something else


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## Chris_W (Aug 16, 2021)

Rusted B&B said:


> With the gearbox - couldn't you just weld or lock the diff and use one output to a transfercase/Diff and just use a stub flange on the other side to seal it. Or you that output for something else


The Leaf gear ratio is 8.2:1 and the Series 2 diff is 4.7:1 so that means your final ratio would be 38.5:1.
Even if you wanted to take it up to the max of 10,000rpm you could only get up to 24.5 mph.
Lots of torque though…


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## Rusted B&B (Nov 6, 2020)

Chris_W said:


> The Leaf gear ratio is 8.2:1 and the Series 2 diff is 4.7:1 so that means your final ratio would be 38.5:1.
> Even if you wanted to take it up to the max of 10,000rpm you could only get up to 24.5 mph.
> Lots of torque though…


True - it's actually what I'm doing for my Tank build - and am debating about putting a transferase in-between the leaf gearbox and the diff - that way I can do some super crawling if I need to or just gear to 1:1 and I only need like 35mph top speed anyway so I'm ok with it


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Working on getting the battery cells into the box. I need to make the box 15-20 mm shorter and the edge for the lid has to go partly inward instead of outward. To make the box fit in the engine bay.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

SuperV8 said:


> Interesting project, learn't to drive in a Series III.
> What's the purpose of this vehicle?
> will it ever see a muddy field or mountain? If yes then I would definitely recommend a locking/torque biasing center diff otherwise it will be effectively one wheel drive. If just road vehicle would be fine without.
> Thanks for your reply SuperV8!
> ...


Agree! I will try to keep it lower at normal driving if possible.


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Bratitude said:


> I’m currently working on stub flanges and a replacement gearset for the leaf gearbox to use it as a transfer case. There’s talks of getting a quaife ATB made for the leaf diff aswell.
> 
> This will be great if it works out!  Please keep me posted on how it goes!


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## Rusted B&B (Nov 6, 2020)

Just curious how your controlling both motors? From one resolver ev controller and one battery pack, Or is each getting there own system? The draw from one battery for two motors is gonna be a lot unless it's spec'd for it


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## Elektrotor (Jan 3, 2022)

Rusted B&B said:


> Just curious how your controlling both motors? From one resolver ev controller and one battery pack, Or is each getting there own system? The draw from one battery for two motors is gonna be a lot unless it's spec'd for it


I heard Resolve-EV is planning to have a controller that is able to control two motors. Idea was to use one 40 kWh battery but I have not made any calculations on C-rate or voltage surge during full throttle. Just two 80 KW motors in parallel instead of one 110 kW.


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