# [EVDL] Lithium Project/universal motor



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

From: Peter Eckhoff <

>I have a Universal DC motor rated at 110 volts and 12 amps maximum.<

This may not be the motor for your project. Some like the skill saw or
electric drill motors are high rpm low torque and low eff . This along
with the wast of changing low voltage to high could hurt .

>I can afford 3 to 4 Calb Lithium Ion (3.2 V at 100 AH) batteries for this project.<

seems there are lots of places to find low voltage motors . electric
fans from old cars , What is your project.?

>To protect the pack, would I need to use an electrolytic capacitor(s) to reduce micro surges, etc. and if so what side of the transformer?<

Sound like somebody is already helping you  not all info is good .

>This project has two settings on and off. What else would be needed?<

So it coming on at full power is OK.?

>This would be in prelude to scaling up the project to EV size.<

maybe with some changes . You've come to the right place , more info
on the project and motor is needed.
-- 
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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Heck, if the mower is meant to plug into 120v AC line, an inverter
sounds like the exact right way to make it work!

You could even try out lead acid batteries (2 6volt golf cart batteries
or a single 12v deep cycle) before going all the way to Lithium. You
can charge them with a standard auto charger from walmart for $30 and
they don't need any BMS systems.

Jay

On 09/08/2011 01:40 PM, Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> Hello EVDL, Steve, Travis, Jay, and Dan,
> =

> Steve (and Ron): Instead of experimenting with a full blown Lithium Ion =
pack for my conversion, I want to experiment with converting this corded la=
wn mower to cordless first to get a feel for BMS, recharging and dischargin=
g. If I blow this system, I'm out less money. If it works and I gain the =
confidence with this set up, I can then apply what I have learned to an EV =
size pack. I also understand a little more about what is being said on thi=
s list. (In my next life, I may end up charging windmills=85)
> =

> All: This is a DC motor with a rectifier bridge.
> =

> Dan: The motors are universal (small "u") motors. There is no plate on =
the motor. There is a decal on the black cover that says "1350 Motor Serie=
s ". I wonder if 1350 refers to the wattage rating of the motor? The shaf=
t is 1/2" in diameter and the armature is 2 3/4" in diameter. The electric=
al specs, if you can call them that, come from the manufacturer at:
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/outdoor/MM675.aspx =

> There is an exploded view at:
> http://www.ereplacementparts.com/black-and-decker-mm575-electric-lawnhogt=
rade-mulching-mower-parts-c-4167_9514_9550.html
> with links to actual pictures of the Magnet Ring and Armature. I counted=
16 commutator tabs on the armature, 2 brushes.
> =

> (Ron): If the universal motor needs only 70 to 80 volts DC as opposed 1=
20 V AC, I assume this mean that the amperage draw will be about the same?
> =

> Jay: The inverter sounds like a good possibility. A 12 volt DC pack at =
100 AH to run a 120 VAC system at (10 amps times efficiency of the inverter=
) It's cheaper than originally planned. The switch is on the AC side on t=
he mower.
> =

> Steve: The electrolytic capacitors were my idea and taken from the idea =
that all controllers have some hefty caps in them. I was also worried abou=
t degradation to the battery (-ies) due to line noise/surges. If this is n=
ot a good idea, I will leave them off.
> =

> I do appreciate you all's help on this.
> =

> Peter
> =

>


> Steve Clunn wrote:
> > =
> 
> >> From: Peter Eckhoff <
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Lee,

How long did your 2.5 AH batteries last per charge? The reason I ask is that it normally takes me about an hour to mow my lawn and with a 12 Amp motor, I could see that the charge would be used up in as little as 12 minutes (2.5AH/12A times 60 minutes). I do plan on trying to measure the amp rates this weekend as TS Lee has refreshed our parched soil with moisture. Some of the grass has gotten thick and high enough to be a good test of the mower's capability.

Thank you about your connection ideas. I had not thought about the hand switch wearing out but we would be using household light switches if they did not..




> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > On 9/8/2011 6:14 PM, Jay Summet wrote:
> >> Heck, if the mower is meant to plug into 120v AC line, an inverter
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Most household light switches are also not designed for DC,
so even those may be short lived, unless you have the old
turning-knob style that were used on old DC power systems
and which are designed to "wind up" a spring and then suddenly
opening the contact over significant distance - exactly what is
needed to snub out any arc forming as soon as you open the switch.

You can still use the built-in handle switch of the mower, but
just use it to control the low current for a DC contactor coil.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Peter Eckhoff
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 6:54 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium Project/universal motor


Hello Lee,

How long did your 2.5 AH batteries last per charge? The reason I ask is
that it normally takes me about an hour to mow my lawn and with a 12 Amp
motor, I could see that the charge would be used up in as little as 12
minutes (2.5AH/12A times 60 minutes). I do plan on trying to measure
the amp rates this weekend as TS Lee has refreshed our parched soil with
moisture. Some of the grass has gotten thick and high enough to be a
good test of the mower's capability.

Thank you about your connection ideas. I had not thought about the hand
switch wearing out but we would be using household light switches if
they did not..




> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > On 9/8/2011 6:14 PM, Jay Summet wrote:
> >> Heck, if the mower is meant to plug into 120v AC line, an inverter
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If a household light switch makes a loud snap when you switch it, it
will hold up to DC -- because it has the spring action inside that
opens or closes it very suddenly instead of at the same speed that you
move the handle. It used to be that roughly half of them were loud,
and half were quiet. Now, I have not seen a loud snap one for sale
for probably 10 or 15 years -- no one wants a loud switch.

Z



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Most household light switches are also not designed for DC,
> > so even those may be short lived, unless you have the old
> > turning-knob style that were used on old DC power systems
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a bunch of snap switches, and some mercury ones as well, if anyone 
wants them.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium Project/universal motor


If a household light switch makes a loud snap when you switch it, it
will hold up to DC -- because it has the spring action inside that
opens or closes it very suddenly instead of at the same speed that you
move the handle. It used to be that roughly half of them were loud,
and half were quiet. Now, I have not seen a loud snap one for sale
for probably 10 or 15 years -- no one wants a loud switch.

Z



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Most household light switches are also not designed for DC,
> > so even those may be short lived, unless you have the old
> > turning-knob style that were used on old DC power systems
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Joe,

What are snap switches? I have never heard the term.




> joe wrote:
> 
> > I have a bunch of snap switches, and some mercury ones as well, if anyone
> > wants them.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Read the thread, Peter - Lee describes it perfectly in the message before 
the one I sent!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Eckhoff" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium Project/universal motor


> Hi Joe,
>
> What are snap switches? I have never heard the term.
>
>
>


> joe wrote:
> >
> >> I have a bunch of snap switches, and some mercury ones as well, if anyone
> >> wants them.
> ...


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