# [EVDL] Fact-checkers please for anti-EV articles (was: Dirt to Wheels analysis?)



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In my opinion, this specific Seeking Alpha author, Peterson, needs to 
have one of the many experts on this list formally dispute one or 
more of his articles. You need to find and document "clear factual errors."

Here is the "Dispute an article" link:
http://seekingalpha.com/page/dispute_an_article

Peterson's articles:
http://seekingalpha.com/author/john-petersen/articles

His latest anti-EV article:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/245533-u-s-energy-information-administration-electric-drive-forecasts-running-in-reverse-since-2009

Bill D.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

After reading the "Dirty Little Secret" article and the long list of
comments; I had to turn away and relax as my blood pressure was starting to
rise. Throughout that long aggruement my thought was "Why are Electrics
responsible for all the polution which may be a result of generating the
electricity ti charge their batteries, but Petrol powered vehicles were
never called to task for the polution of drilling, pumping, transporting,
spilling, refining, transporting (again), evaporating during storage at each
stop, transfer, and from the vehicle fuel tank, and finally combusstion
emissions of nitric oxides, and other smog constituients as well as many
known carcinogens and spreading them thru our neighborhoods." One must
consider that Peterson is a Lawyer and therefore trained to only present
facts favorable to his side of the case and the defense needs to present the
other side which he will always omit!
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The "Stone Age" didn't end because they ran out of Stones;
It ended because they started using their Brains !
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



> Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > In my opinion, this specific Seeking Alpha author, Peterson, needs to
> > have one of the many experts on this list formally dispute one or
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is why the best approach is to carefully fact check (with as 
many expert eyes as possible) and then submit well-documented (not 
"rants") disputes through the Seeking Alpha process. Basically, you 
have to convince the Seeking Alpha "judge" to "strike from the 
record" anything he writes that is a "clear factual error."

If Peterson gets hit with a good number of "clear factual error" 
hits, the Seeking Alpha folks may choose to drop him.

I think it is important to keep folks like this honest in the facts 
they select present, at least.

Also, it is much less effective, but it helps some if you join 
Seeking Alpha, and then vote plus or minus on the comments and on the 
articles. Overwhelming negative feedback on the fear-mongers coupled 
and over-welding positive feedback on the honest comments will make 
some difference when Peterson tries to delete comments that he finds 
unpleasant. If the commentor and the comment have positive ratings, 
this gets hard for him to do more than once or twice.

Bill D.

Here again is the "Dispute an article" link:
http://seekingalpha.com/page/dispute_an_article

If you find a factual error, carefully research and cite the 
references, and then submit a dispute.



At 01:06 PM 1/9/2011, you wrote:
>After reading the "Dirty Little Secret" article and the long list of
>comments; I had to turn away and relax as my blood pressure was starting to
>rise. Throughout that long aggruement my thought was "Why are Electrics
>responsible for all the polution which may be a result of generating the
>electricity ti charge their batteries, but Petrol powered vehicles were
>never called to task for the polution of drilling, pumping, transporting,
>spilling, refining, transporting (again), evaporating during storage at each
>stop, transfer, and from the vehicle fuel tank, and finally combusstion
>emissions of nitric oxides, and other smog constituients as well as many
>known carcinogens and spreading them thru our neighborhoods." One must
>consider that Peterson is a Lawyer and therefore trained to only present
>facts favorable to his side of the case and the defense needs to present the
>other side which he will always omit!
>Regards,
>*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
>*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
>EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
>*
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>The "Stone Age" didn't end because they ran out of Stones;
> It ended because they started using their Brains !
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>


> Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > In my opinion, this specific Seeking Alpha author, Peterson, needs to
> > > have one of the many experts on this list formally dispute one or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was wondering how he got that 60% factor for hydro generators. Here in 
Great Falls, Montana we have five hydro dams that are space about one mile 
apart. There is six generators per dam for a total of 30 generators.

We only run two generators under load, two are in running standby and two 
are in maintenance. So that makes 33 percent of the generators that are 
under load.

Those 33 percent of generators are kept at 50% maximum load or about 15 to 
16 percent. Now if you take the both loaded and standby running, this makes 
about 60% of generators running.

This is the normal practice in generating power. I also use this method for 
my EV. I have one motor running, one motor in standby ready to install and 
one in maintenance.

Had to get some EV data in here.

As for coal power generation, we have one coal fire generator plant that is 
about 400 miles east from me, that does not put any CO2 in the air, it only 
emits water vapor. There is no coal trains or trucks that deliver the coal 
to the plant. It is electrical conveyer by a 5 mile long conveyer belt 
right from a huge excavator which is run by the coal fire generator plant.

The coal fire exhaust goes through the generators and then is pipe down into 
a oil bearing formation which then releases more oil than was possible 
before which is used to make more oil and lubricates for electric vehicles. 
More EV data.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fact-checkers please for anti-EV articles (was: Dirt to 
Wheels analysis?)


> After reading the "Dirty Little Secret" article and the long list of
> comments; I had to turn away and relax as my blood pressure was starting 
> to
> rise. Throughout that long aggruement my thought was "Why are Electrics
> responsible for all the polution which may be a result of generating the
> electricity ti charge their batteries, but Petrol powered vehicles were
> never called to task for the polution of drilling, pumping, transporting,
> spilling, refining, transporting (again), evaporating during storage at 
> each
> stop, transfer, and from the vehicle fuel tank, and finally combusstion
> emissions of nitric oxides, and other smog constituients as well as many
> known carcinogens and spreading them thru our neighborhoods." One must
> consider that Peterson is a Lawyer and therefore trained to only present
> facts favorable to his side of the case and the defense needs to present 
> the
> other side which he will always omit!
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The "Stone Age" didn't end because they ran out of Stones;
> It ended because they started using their Brains !
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>


> Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > In my opinion, this specific Seeking Alpha author, Peterson, needs to
> > > have one of the many experts on this list formally dispute one or
> ...


----------

