# Ideal lithium per cell price?



## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

So what price do lithium cells need to be for them to be a contender in the battery of choice?

I guess you have to narrow this down by amphour so lets say 2000 Ah. What price would make you drop everything and order a few thousand from China? $1 per cell? Is $2 too much? How about if after shipping costs and the whole nine yards you ended up buying these cells for $2 ? Would you switch from 12V batteries to these?

Phillip


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

Amp hours isn't a good rating for comparison.

Watt-Hours, or Kilowatt-Hours are a better total battery energy number to compare with.

So lets say 25,000 Watt-hours or 25 Kilowatt-hours(KWH) as a base.

I at the moment most Lithium batteries cost from $0.90 to $2.50 per Watt-hour, or $900 to $2500 per Kilowatt-Hour.

Lets disregard the expensive charger you'll also need for now.


If Lithium batteries reached $0.50 per Watt-hour I could see 25-40% of the EV community buying some Lithium batteries and converting their cars.

A 25KWH pack would thus cost $12,500 and get you a good 50+ mile range.


If Lithium batteries hit $0.30 per Watt-hour that same 25KWH pack would cost $7500, at this point I could see 90%-100% of current EV owners buying a Lithium pack.

The Automotive industry would also start turning out mass produced Pure Electric Vehicles at this point, in order to not be taken over by the small start up EV car companies like Tesla Motors and Phoenix Motorcars or even small EV conversion shops.

This would also cause the oil producing countries to lower their oil prices to try to keep gasoline going.

This would probably be a good time to be Shorting Oil on the market  (if you don't know what that means don't worry about it)


So I say at $0.50 per Watt-hour I would expect to see mass use of Lithium batteries.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Good post, thanks Mastiff. 
It's got me busy on the calculator.


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## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

e-ghia said:


> So what price do lithium cells need to be for them to be a contender in the battery of choice?
> 
> I guess you have to narrow this down by amphour so lets say 2000 Ah. What price would make you drop everything and order a few thousand from China? $1 per cell? Is $2 too much? How about if after shipping costs and the whole nine yards you ended up buying these cells for $2 ? Would you switch from 12V batteries to these?
> 
> Phillip


We need to know how long lithiums will last too. I don't know if it is just me or not but the nickel metal hydride battery in my roomba didn't last as long as I thought. Now Nicads have never let me down so if I can find them cheap enough I'm probably going to go with them.


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## Mesuge (Mar 6, 2008)

Slash> exactly, as I posted links for diy cycle testing of batteries in that LionEV LiFePO4 thread, this is very important prior making the purchase. No answer so far, hah..!

Well, we know that the premium lithium technology in the area of $1.5-3/Wh (think A123 and alike) most likely will deliver thousands of cycles as advertised, because it has been independently (cross) tested for cycle life. Which can't be said for now about the cheaper brands/chemistries.. I doubt that ~1000 cycles from cheaper lithium will make people turn off from the floodies or AGMs in high voltage packs..


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

Mastiff said:


> Lets disregard the expensive charger you'll also need for now.
> 
> If Lithium batteries reached $0.50 per Watt-hour I could see 25-40% of the EV community buying some Lithium batteries and converting their cars.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I think your $0.50 per Watt-hour price is a good figure for:
1. complete packs 
2. that have been verifiably cycle tested to at least 1k cycles
3. include the BMS.

But the ideal price (subject of this thread) would be about $0.05 kWh ($1,200 for your 25kWh pack)  !

Mitch


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

Your all right, Cycle life is also an important factor.

I agree with Mitch, these packs would need at a minimum in worst case scenario a 1000 Cycles to 80% DOD life to be practical.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

This is the pack I'm most curious about.

http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
http://www.ewidistribution.com/batteries.html#Specifcations


I emailed them to ask about what the green PC board does that's mounted on top and the guy just responded with "call me" which is a typical salesman response. I guess I'll have to call him and see how evasive he is while he's trying to get my credit card number.

Here is the contact information if you want to try asking about it:

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080123/NEWS/801230385/1001

[email protected]
Electric Wheels Inc.
1555 12th ST SE #110
Salem, OR 97306
phone (503) 485-0588
fax (503) 485-0590


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## Madmac (Mar 14, 2008)

The PCB is connected to every cell so must be a Battery Management System or BMS to make sure the cells are not over charged or under discharged.

Construction looks very amateur, bit of plastic bag over the power leads to stop shorting would easily puncture if scraped on any metal. PCB is open to condensation, should be in a sealed plastic box.

For the selling price would want to feel the company would be around to honor any warranty.

Madmac


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

gas at $4.00/gallon @20 mpg =.20/mile . $300/ installed mile ( 300 watts / mile ) of battery power divided by 2000 cycles = $.15/mile + electric charge + interest on principle ( 5 years ) I wonder what the cost of materials / watt is for li-iron .


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

saab96 said:


> This is the pack I'm most curious about.
> 
> http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
> http://www.ewidistribution.com/batteries.html#Specifcations


Hi,

At the 25,000 Watt-hours Mastiff posted as a base size these would cost $22,750 plus shipping. 

On the other hand with no Puekart effect going to 80% will probably give the equivalent of a 10kWh or 12kWh lead acid pack.

Also in addition to not having any idea if the company will be around to honor a warranty I don't see one mentioned on their site.

Mitch


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## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

I find myself spending hours search every reseller, dealer, surplus company, warehouse, you name it, for the best battery deal. I figure once I know the best price I can get on the lithium cells then I can know the total project cost. I plan to buy several thousand cells so a price difference of a dime makes a difference.

So far I have found the better prices using the 18650 size. About $5 for 2500mAh, $3.50 for 1800mAh, or $3.50 for the LiFePO4 at 1350mAh. All includes shipping on single cell purchases. I have not negotiated for a bulk price yet. I have to leave at the moment but I will run some numbers when I return.


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## b.koen (Mar 9, 2008)

I to have been trying to source cells without disassemble other packs, keep us posted as to where you find'm. will do same.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

MitchJi said:


> At the 25,000 Watt-hours Mastiff posted as a base size these would cost $22,750 plus shipping.
> Mitch


Is it really necessary to get 25kw hours? Wouldn't just two packs give you ~40 miles at 144 volts?


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

e-ghia said:


> I find myself spending hours search every reseller, dealer, surplus company, warehouse, you name it, for the best battery deal. I figure once I know the best price I can get on the lithium cells then I can know the total project cost. I plan to buy several thousand cells so a price difference of a dime makes a difference.


Hi,

I think in addition to price you should be very concerned with quality. Several people posted on the EV album that they spent thousands on li-ion cells that were junk.

Mitch


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## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

Absolutely, MitchJi!!!! 

Mostly what I am seeing is junk. Pure, worthless crap. And I don't even understand batteries like I should but most of what I see I pass on and kepe digging. The three I mentioned a few posts earlier looked good. They were protected cells and looked like they would be worth buying a few sample cells to have tested.

I'll continue to look around and when I find what looks to be a good, strong, lithium cell I'll get everyone's opinion on here and we will go from there.

By the way, I had initially placed my budget at $20k but now see I may have to bump it up closer to $30k. Still a do-able project, it will just take more planning on my part pulling that much money into it. The battery prices are killer!!


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## MitchJi (Dec 14, 2007)

saab96 said:


> Is it really necessary to get 25kw hours? Wouldn't just two packs give you ~40 miles at 144 volts?


Hi,

I mentioned that size because it was mentioned in a previous post and seems like a reasonably sized pack.

Nothing wrong with getting two packs but if you only want 40 miles why pay for lithium? They will be lighter but for that size of a pack the extra weight is not a show stopper.

Best Wishes,

Mitch


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

" How to make lithium polymer batteries for electric car" on " you tube " 11 lbs of lithium to make 210 battery units , looked like 50 units to make a battery . @ $25/ lb=$275 of li for 4 batteries or $68.00 each in li metal.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

that was 2000 meters long x 3.25 ft/meter=6500 ft divided by 26 turns/ unit ( about 1 ft/ turn)= about 250 they said 210 battery units.


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## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

Interesting video. Never thought about how complicated the process would be to manufacture a battery. Wonder if I can buy one of those lithium-sheet stretchers on eBay? 

But you did get me to thinking. I have been looking only at the smaller cells, not these larger types. I need to run these numbers as well to see if there is a cost savings when buying the large cells. My first reaction is this: if a block of cells fails on the setup I am wanting to build I only have to replace eight cells @ $3.50 ea or whatever the price. If a block of the large cell batteries goes out I have to replace the entire battery. How much do these run? $300-500? That is a huge cost to bear in the event I have a cell failure.

I remember reading a post on here where someone purchase several of these large cells (ThunderSky? or something like that) and three or four of them failed. Ouch. That is an expensive replacement cost compared to the individual cell route.

Phillip


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I've saying for 30 years with batteries if you want them you got to build them . the hardest information to find is on battery building . this does look doable even with a hand roller. but lithium foil is available , as are the separator's and anodes. I tried to get a price on lithium foil but never got a response.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

aeroscott said:


> I've saying for 30 years with batteries if you want them you got to build them . the hardest information to find is on battery building . this does look doable even with a hand roller. but lithium foil is available , as are the separator's and anodes. I tried to get a price on lithium foil but never got a response.


Now you have my attention. My understanding is that lithium is extremely reactive in its pure form and cannot be safely stored or handled in normal atmosphere.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

MitchJi said:


> Nothing wrong with getting two packs but if you only want 40 miles why pay for lithium? They will be lighter but for that size of a pack the extra weight is not a show stopper.


When you actually do the math, it may cost more to constantly replace lead packs than go with one long-lasting lithium pack. Plus less maintenance overall and more consistent range. Also, in my case I'm trying to avoid filling the entire trunk with batteries. With the smaller lithium cells (even the tall thundersky rectangles) it may be easier to cram them into the spare trunk area or under the rear passenger seat. 6V golf cart batteries are humongous by comparison.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

e-ghia said:


> But you did get me to thinking. I have been looking only at the smaller cells, not these larger types. I need to run these numbers as well to see if there is a cost savings when buying the large cells. My first reaction is this: if a block of cells fails on the setup I am wanting to build I only have to replace eight cells @ $3.50 ea or whatever the price. If a block of the large cell batteries goes out I have to replace the entire battery. How much do these run? $300-500? That is a huge cost to bear in the event I have a cell failure.
> 
> I remember reading a post on here where someone purchase several of these large cells (ThunderSky? or something like that) and three or four of them failed. Ouch. That is an expensive replacement cost compared to the individual cell route.


But the advantage of the large cells is they have screw terminals on them so it's much easier to link them them up and replace them. With the small cells you have to spot-weld them together. This opens up the chance of the heat damaging perfectly good cells and makes for a real hassle trying to get in and replace individual bad cells.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I heard the same , also heard that it's done in room with 2% humidity video looks like air clean room. my be different for li-ion.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

david85 said:


> Now you have my attention. My understanding is that lithium is extremely reactive in its pure form and cannot be safely stored or handled in normal atmosphere.


 the vid is showing extruding a 5 kg billet then rolling it to foil in a lab/shop room.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

So the only way to set this up would be to make a laboratory, I guess its doable. Nearly any technology is accessible these days.


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## Madmac (Mar 14, 2008)

"With the small cells you have to spot-weld them together"

You can buy 18650 cells with an optional tag to solder to. With care this can be soldered to a bus bar. A good example on making small'sh pack at
http://www.engg.ksu.edu/solarcar/about/batterymodules.html

Another advantage of small cells is that you can split the purchase into stages. If you design the mechanics to say hold 60 cells (144 AmpH using 2.4 AmpH cells) in parallel you could load up with 20 to get everything going then another 20 and if you need it the final lot. Note that that is for one 3.6 volt assembly, you will need to multiply those quantities by the voltage you need divided by 3.6V.

By choosing a large manufacturer they are unlikely to change the cell design. If they have an improvement it will come out as a higher capacity version.

The general feedback from people using 18650 cells is that the multiple cells keep very closely to initial spec if they are 85% charged and not heavily discharged so adding batteries later should not be an issue. 

Madmac


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

madmac, great find is there more on the 18650's.did you see the vid.


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## b.koen (Mar 9, 2008)

I ran across this little nugget on building a major pack with A123 s from dewalt modules ..........evwhitecap.org/insight/A123.......... follow down this page i think its not too bad. thought the solarcar battery pack was even better.

keep hunting, i know i will


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

Correct URL is:

http://ev.whitecape.org/insight/A123/


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

good work, dave


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

friend just in from china , 60 amp x 12.8 volts ( 3.2 v/cell) for $280 . these are thunder sky and was told that the failures were do to not clamping the cells to maintain contact between the cells active components, thous a open in the cell . banding or bolting the packs together is the proposed cure . $.37 / watt with no bms and no proposed warranty. is working on bms / charger . PS they will not sell 100 amp or larger format cells do to an agreement for import to the USA.


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## Mesuge (Mar 6, 2008)

Madmac said:


> The general feedback from people using 18650 cells is that the multiple cells keep very closely to initial spec if they are *85% charged and not heavily discharged *so adding batteries later should not be an issue.
> 
> Madmac


Yes, that's true for the LiFePOs as well, follow the approach of big automanufs. and advanced lithium chemistries, they plan to limit the upper charging around 80% because of the calendar life and regen overhead issues.

Basically, the ideal treatment of lithium is to have it on ~ 50% charge when the car is sitting idle for most of the day/night. So, you have to limit the exposure to the 80-100% state of charge, which on its upper boundary is harming the battery. 

In practice you keep the car at 50-80% SOC on idle and top off to full charge just before the planned route. Similarly if you return home with say 30% SOC, you plug it in and "wait" for reaching ~50% SOC and then leave it sitting idle for the next day. Repeat the cycle again..

This could be relatively easily automated (analog timer) or commanded via cell-phone/web interface etc.. There are plenty of microchip designs with BASIC programming capability or PLCs to do this..


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

Nice post Mesuge ! What the car companies are doing is sensible.

I've been running a lithium powered scooter for the last two years, it's 24V and running a 7S7P configuration of eMoil cells, these are LiFe from Milwaukee V28 power tools and were out several months before A123 cells. 

The way you describe what the car companies are doing is exactly how I handle the charging of this pack, I only charge the cells to 85% capacity and if I plan on not using the scooter for a week or so, I give them a storage charge to 50%. I'm using a high powered charge meant for RC hobbyists and this has a storage charge option on it, I suspect the new breed of EV charges for Lithiums will have the same thing. 

Anyway, 2 years and 300+ cycles later *without* a BMS and the cells (all 49 of them) stay within 0.02V of each other. I know this as I manually check the cells every 30 cycles (used to be a lot more often until I realized this was not needed). I haven't manually balanced the pack for over a year now.

Of course, I'm not saying that I would recommend running without a BMS, this scooter was originally meant as a way to test these cells in real life but turned out to be a very viable (and cheap) transport method.

Some of the things I'd suggest with Lithium cells


Charge to 85% max, no more - the cells break down a lot faster at their peak voltage.

The lower the C discharge you draw the longer the pack will last, if a cell is "rated" for 10C, don't make your calculations around this number. Likely it's an over rating from the batter manufacturer anyway. Even so, a sport car's engine might red line at 6000 rpm but isn't going to last too long if you always drive it at 6000rpm, if you know what I mean.

Don't budget for 10 years from a pack, while Lithium technology have some major advantages they also degrade while just sitting in the vehicle. There a number of figures around but the consensus is that a new cell will degrade to 80% capacity in 5 years even if it is not used. Leaving the cell fully charged will speed this up.

Making Lithium cells isn't hard, making *good* Lithium cells is! A lot of the cells from China suck and the thing they suck at is cycle life. When using cells in small quantities this is not really an issue, you know to avoid these cells in future, however for a large EV pack this could be a real expensive issue. Simply; not all lithium cells are created equal and there is a lot of Bullshit about.


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> friend just in from china , 60 amp x 12.8 volts ( 3.2 v/cell) for $280 . these are thunder sky and was told that the failures were do to not clamping the cells to maintain contact between the cells active components, thous a open in the cell . banding or bolting the packs together is the proposed cure.


Honestly, Thundersky have not yet made a good cell that will last. I have heard all kinds of excuses why they die quickly but simply, the reason is that are not a quality cell. This is why they are cheap.

There's a guy in Australia that is converting a Mazda MX-5 (Miata), read one of his blog posts here:

http://www.zeva.com.au/conversion_blog.php?vehicle=1&post=7



> I've known for a while that I'd have to split the pack (some cells up front, some in the rear). I was originally hoping to squeeze 8 cells into the old fuel tank cavity and 32 up front, but I asked the experts on EVDL and apparently the ThunderSky cells don't last very long when installed horizontally (i.e lying down), and it's just too shallow a cavity to have them vertically...


WHAT!!?? Now refer to the manufacturing video in this thread or some more detailed information on the construction of Lithium cells. Its simply just laughable to state that orientation could affect the cells at all, its a good job seems that they are using in a lot of everyday electronics and also in space missions.

A good pack of Lithiums is going to cost a lot of money, a bad pack of Lithiums is going to cost a little less but it's still a substantial sum. The old addage of buy cheap, buy twice comes to mind.

The classic trap is that when people evaluation Lithiums, they take the best case for cycle life, discharge rates and longevity. Because the cells are new, the manufacture's figures are used but in reality the real world figures are unknown. 

As the saying goes: There are lies, damm lies and cell information from battery manufactures!


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

David said:


> Honestly, Thundersky have not yet made a good cell that will last. I have heard all kinds of excuses why they die quickly but simply, the reason is that are not a quality cell. This is why they are cheap.
> 
> There's a guy in Australia that is converting a Mazda MX-5 (Miata), read one of his blog posts here:
> 
> ...


 need more data. where can I find the excuses or could expand on what you heard. I think if they say to band the packs I would . maybe they gust figured it out recently.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

can't find the video , thanks , john


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## David (Mar 22, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> need more data. where can I find the excuses or could expand on what you heard. I think if they say to band the packs I would . maybe they gust figured it out recently.


I gave you another excuse just above; the cells have short cycle life if they are horizontal. 

I bought 5 160Ah cells myself last year for a non EV application and out of that 5, 2 were very poor, 2 were on spec and 1 was above spec. Even the good two had very poor discharge ability and at 5C (their rated burst discharge) they dropped voltage very badly, I would say 1.5C is the most I would push them. Two cells are still working, one of the "on spec" cell died at 45 cycles  

When I contacted Thundersky about returning them under their one year warranty, they didn't want to know. At least you are not getting a warrenty so don't have that false hope.

Start with Google and also check the EVDL, however be wary on the EVDL as there are people who have financial interest in selling Thundersky cells that push them. 

What you'll find is that this is Thundersky's mantra: "The last batch we bad, the current ones are OK". Its as beleivable as "the cheque is in the mail". However, I mention it as you'll see the shills pushing them repeating this but this they ignore the *actual the problem with Thundersky is lack of quality control*. They are cheap as nothing gets wasted; it all get sold. 

So, its a huge gamble if you get good cells or not, some people actually flew to China and tested the cells themselves to ensure they got good ones. Even if you do that and get good cells, you're not going to be able to push them, they might last 2 years in something very small and light that you don't accelerate hard in. Maybe they would work well as hybrid replacement pack also as they don't get pushed hard there either but for general EV use, too much of a gamble for me.

However, at your prices it would give you a nice 144V 60Ah pack for $3500 or a total loss of $3500, maybe they are cheap enough to risk it?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

thanks dave, sorry for your experience maybe best thing about thunder sky is to dissect the cells to determine what doesn't work. we will soon see if banding the packs is the fix . this most be a new idea since you weren't told to band them . I'm not buying them , but my friend the importer will test a10 kwh pack in his car . my interest is how to /how not to build or buy cells. i have seen many 3ed world products, not to imp rested so far. they never show a picture of the plant or detailed specs ,etc. If I had a plant I would show it off and give specs . I can just imagine them working on dirt floors , bare foot workers , contaminated meterials and charging $300 for a battery with $20 worth of materials and $5 for labor . laffing all the way to the bank . I would love to know how much profit and care there is in manufacturing li batteries


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

What happens with the lithium batteries after they "degrade"? For instance, after 2000 charges or after the shelf-life limit? What's keeping you from still using them? Does the degradation continue in a linear fashion? I'm just thinking you could buy a pack with enough extra capacity to go over 2,000 charges or 10 years and still have useable range.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I am after the same information and more say can we take old cells disassemble them and clean and reassemble . I need to take one apart . thanks, john


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## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

Disassemble a cell?!? Really? Hmmm....

Lots of questions come to mind but the first one is, "What are you looking for which is replaceable?"

Phillip


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I was thinking of cleaning corroded surfaces , but don't know what to expect .


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd highly recommend AGAINST taking a lithium battery apart, it's not an easy or safe thing to do.

Read up on how Lithium batteries are made first, they MUST be handled in a 2% or less humidity room.

If you so much as breathe too much on the battery you could cause it to burn to my understanding because of the vapor in your breath.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

wheres your sense of adventure . I can always put a argon shield on it from the tig torch .


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah, just as long as you don't try to wield it shut again!


Really guys, I don't think its reasonably possible to rebuild a lithuim battery short of replacing the indivindual that are dead. If you are dealing with lithium cobalt (the original lithium ion battery), than don't even bother, simply breaking the seal on it could cause a fire. Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo4) is much more stable, but the layers are so delicate that if any damage happens, it would destroy the cell to the point that it cannot be repaired. Lead acid batteries are much more massive and have extra material to spare (though still not very much), and can sometimes be salvaged, but for what you end up with, its really not worth the trouble.


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## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

I have been distracted from the battery search for the past week. We have a new baby in the house! WooHoo!!! 

Anyways, I found this tonight...

3.6V AA 2400 mAh Lithium Battery
(Lithium Thionyl Chloride, Li-SOCl2) any good?
$1.45 ea + the shipping.

7000 of them would only be about $10k.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Are these rechargeable?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

thats $.17/ watt , 86400 watts for $10,000 ,what is the weight of a cell?


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## demolay rules (Feb 28, 2008)

I think that the cheapest rate we have found so far is lionev. And their batteries come already put together, right?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

i was looking for info on google and found the li thin film 10,000 cycles , thinnest cell , least material , sputtered(vacuum deposited like the metalized mylar potato chip bags ) I can see the oil boys shacking in there shoes now .ps new li battery on wacipida , so new it won't down load all the thin film stuff .


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

how about painting or printing like the solar cells . lets see i need a gallon of lithium nano paint , a gallon of separator paint and one gallon of silicon nano paint . oh ya a roll of foil. and 3 rollers please .


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

aeroscott said:


> i was looking for info on google and found the li thin film 10,000 cycles , thinnest cell , least material , sputtered(vacuum deposited like the metalized mylar potato chip bags ) I can see the oil boys shacking in there shoes now .ps new li battery on wacipida , so new it won't down load all the thin film stuff .


Do you have a link to this page? it sounds promising.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

david85 said:


> Are these rechargeable?


Lithium Thionyl Chloride is not a rechargeable chemistry.


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## e-ghia (Mar 12, 2008)

saab96 said:


> Lithium Thionyl Chloride is not a rechargeable chemistry.


Crap, I forgot to check that. I usually do but I forgot to that time. Oh, well, the search continues...

Thanks saab96!


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

it was still agood find because i googled it came up with the lithium thin film .


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> it was still agood find because i googled it came up with the lithium thin film .


 wikipedia , rechargeable battery , thin film lithium , links #22 #23 . site has been reworked .


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