# Advanced Brush Timing Question?



## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

Brush timing seems a bit confusing but basically it refers to their position in the motor and it is physically set during manufacture. I don't know where I got the figure but I think as a standard the brush timing is advanced by about 5 degrees which is done to improve efficiency and reduce arcing at higher speeds. Running the same motor in the opposite direction will effectively result in "retarded" timing and it will arc like hell. Motors that are frequently used in forwards and reverse directions (like fork trucks) will have the brush timing set to zero advance. You can however run a motor backwards briefly (such as for reverse in direct drive applications) at low speeds with no problems.

Many front wheel drive cars have a counter clockwise rotation (CCW) when viewing on the flywheel of the engine/motor. Honda's notably (and KiwiEV's mitsubishi) have a CW rotation. If you review some pictures of conversions you will note that, when looking from the front of the car, some gearboxes are on the left (hondas) and some are on the right (just about everything else). When you order your motor simply inform the vendor that you have a honda and they will (hopefully) send you a motor with the correct brush timing.


----------



## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

If you are talking about Forkenswift, He is using a 2 terminal pump motor, which will run the same direction no matter what polarity you connect it. This is because you are reversing the polarity of both the field and armiture ( they are inturnally wired in series ) so you get no difference. In a perm mag motor, when you reverse the leads, the polarity of the mags stays the same so the motor reverses. The same is true for a 4 terminal motor, you have the ability to reverse the field or the armiture.


----------



## Hi Torque Electric (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey Jon

As a general rule of thumb the brushes are neutral when they line up in-line with the motors field coil pole shoe bolts on the motors sides. To advance the motors timing you must move the brushes oposite the motors rotation by X degrees depending on voltage. Warp and Advance motors come with both direction advancement holes already. I'm not sure about that D&D motor though. I have a posting and picture on how to tell your motors advancement at my site but don't have time to fish it out but should be easy enough to find and it should help you to determine your setting. If not throw me a pic and I'll have a look.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com


----------



## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

Is there a way for you to cram in a 9” Advanced or Warp9 at 26-30HP. Also up that voltage, cause voltage has a lot to do with resultant HP & top end speed, and 72V is at the bottom end. And the controller has to be a min of 500A. I think too many starting out with their first EV think too small and privately are sorry. Yes, it means more $$$. Even I wish my 120V was 144-156V, can’t change now without a new controller. My opinion tho.
One guy on the board recently burned up a small motor. 2 small motors = the price of 1 decent sized one. Were his RPM’s too low? Didn’t watch the amp meter carefully? Expecting more git up & go? Pure speculation on my part.


----------



## Hi Torque Electric (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey CP

I couldn't agree more as to people using to small a motor (or to low a ratio) as I hear the sorrows of people who learn the hard way (no matter how loud and often I scream like a freaking lunitic 8^o

The two biggest causes to motor failure are,using to small a motor and using to low a ratio, as these motors don't like to lug down at low RPM's.

With that said, I also understand that people have their own budgets, and reasons for becoming EV'ers, so I try to guide people best I can when using an old forklift motor as it maybe their only / best option in becoming an EV'er today 8^) There are in fact lift motors out there that are as good as any EV designed motor which can be found and used, and it offers an old motor a chance at a new life, and as a motor guy I find that a happy thought 8^) My last thought toward converting lift motors is it offers people a chance to tinker (hands on) with motors which I believe is the nature of this DIY forum.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


----------



## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

I did a bit of reading up on DC electric motors when I first started my project and discovered the differences between series, shunt, compound and permanent magnet type designs but, for the most part, to me they are just a big cylinder with a couple of shafts sticking out. No doubt I will get down and dirty with one sooner or later...

As far as skimping on components, I couldn't agree more that it is worth holding out for the "good stuff". Too many times I wish I had stretched to the few extra dollars for the better model etc. Just recently I was nearly tempted to buy an ADC 8" and 1221C controller as they were going for the "right price" but sense prevailed and I am holding out for a Warp 9" and Zilla 1K - just watching that US dollar exchange rate (yeah baby - when it hits NZD1.25 I am on the phone to Otmar!)

Some other decisions are made with financial sense in mind. For instance, I am pretty confident that I will kill my first set of batteries so I will be going simple lead acid to start with. When I learn how to care for them properly I will go to something a bit more up market like AGM. Hopefully, over a couple of battery replacements, I will be able to justify the lithiums!


----------

