# Frankencar underway - I need your help!



## EV-Eric (Jun 21, 2009)

Frankencar said:


> Okay, I've been poking around these forums off and on and haven't really been a big player, but I'm finally getting off the ground and I really need your help.


Could you elaborate on the help you,re lookin for?




Frankencar said:


> recharge in 5-45 minutes (depending on if you use a 110 or a 220 outlet and also varies from what website you're looking at.


I'm sure you will not be able to charge any battery in 45 minutes that will travel 200 miles ,presuming it's at a house from a standard 220v AC service.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Not sure what a CNT battery is either. If they are lead acid chemistry then to get that kind of range would require something pretty revolutionary. The only "player" in advanced battery technology I know of that is/was trying to improve on LA was firefly and I haven't heard much noise from them in a while.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

EV-Eric said:


> Could you elaborate on the help you,re lookin for?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you will not be able to charge any battery in 45 minutes that will travel 200 miles ,presuming it's at a house from a standard 220v AC service.


Yes I foolishly forgot to put a link to my kickstarter page (now fixed) so check it out here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1583156960/frankencar-200-mile-charge-electric-car

Besides that, I just mean the general support this forum continues to offer, which has been great so far. As I have more questions, I'll continue to post them here in this ridiculously awesome community.

As for charging the battery in 45 minutes, don't give me a hard time for what the company is claiming. Like I said, I'm no tech genius, but it does sound like it's worth checking out.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

madderscience said:


> Not sure what a CNT battery is either. If they are lead acid chemistry then to get that kind of range would require something pretty revolutionary. The only "player" in advanced battery technology I know of that is/was trying to improve on LA was firefly and I haven't heard much noise from them in a while.


CNT= Carbon Nano Tube. Essentially, they are applying a layer of carbon nanotubes to the anode and cathode of a lead acid battery, which dramatically increases surface area. So the storage capacity goes way up. The idea has actually been around for awhile, but Micro Bubble Technology came up with an inexpensive way to produce carbon nanotubes, which are generally very expensive. So for my money, that is pretty revolutionary.

I'm also somewhat familiar with Firefly Energy's Oasis battery, which works on the same principle of increasing surface area, but to a lesser degree than the CNT.

Just do some googling of CNT and the Current, and you'll find some interesting stuff.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Frankencar

Not to be wet blanket but you need to do some maths
Your Mazda will need between 200 and 400 watt hours per mile
Use 200 watt hours and 400 miles and you get 80000 watt hours, 80 Kwhrs

to charge that in 45 minutes is *107 Kw*, 80 Kwhrs / (45 / 60) (minutes in hour)

at 220 volts that is 486 amps!!

need damn thick wires!



Nothing here about the battery chemistry - just simple physics 

look again at the battery site and do some simple calculations


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Well I do not see anywhere to go buy a few of these puppies. I'd go buy 16 of these puppies right now if the claim is correct. Where O where have the nono bots gone. Until I can go plunk down my hard earned cash they are in the same realm of firefly.
> 
> Sorry but the truth is that they are not on the market. Until then ...........................
> 
> Pete



Not to worry, I'm well aware that they are not yet on the market but I am following their development closely. Independent testing results are to be released at the end of January, and several distributor agreements are being hammered out at the same time. Again, I understand that there is some funky math involved in their claims but I'm still going to follow it and there's nothing you can do to stop me  Again, it's not my claims so go hassle Ecolocap about it, not me.


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

i wouldn't get my hopes up too high, this is one of the most controversial subjects out there, read http://theeestory.com/topics/3997

They also claim a fuel additive that increases gas mileage by 80% or something like that. Their stock shares sell for 38 cents, not too many investors beleive in it......


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

gottdi said:


> I just don't think its prudent to tout something that does not exist. If they were available and you were looking for sponsors then that is another story but to tout what does not exist is not too prudent. The folks will see you as.................
> And that is not what you want if you want sponsors to help you build.
> 
> 
> Pete


I understand what you mean. I don't mean to be pushing something that's not out yet, simply drawing attention to a _potential_ new technology. Look at it not as trying to push for the next greatest thing but rather for a practical trial run. Of course I recognize the possibility that this could fail fantastically. But if everyone were so skeptical, then a potentially amazing technology would just go unnoticed, and fade into history.

Anyone read Wired magazine? Take Thorium, which is a much better fuel for nuclear reactors (look it up). Even though thorium is a much better and widely available fuel for nuclear energy, we used Uranium. Why? Because the plutonium created as a byproduct can be used for weapons. As such, Thorium development as a power fuel was utterly abandoned in 1978. Now imagine if CNT's are actually as amazing as they claim (just imagine, don't get all math on me). Now just because the claims are too bold, and even more so, because major companies have spent billions on Li-Ion research, nobody is even considering using CNT-LA's. And so an incredible tech gets swept under the rug and forgotten. That is, until we run out of lithium.

I'm not saying that it's all they make it out to be. I'm not saying that it's bound for technological doomsday. I'm saying let's give it a go. If it fails, it fails, and if you sponsored my build, then you're only out a few bucks or less (and the time it took to send an email if you're really nice). So I don't think there's a lot at stake. If they fail, I'll put some lesser batteries in and I'll still have a running EV. But if they work...well I think it's worth finding out.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Just to put new battery development in perspective, the aviation world has been pumped up about "new engine technologies" ever since Wilbur and Orville.

One such promising technology appeared almost 40 years ago. A company in Germany called Zoche promised a 2-cycle diesel radial engine with terrific power to weight ratios and low fuel burn "within a few years." Still not here yet.

On the experimental battery front, I was never quite a believer but I was cautiously optimistic about EEStor. And who knows, someday they may actually deliver...


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## Duxuk (Jul 11, 2009)

Good luck Frankencar. I have been criticised by a few individuals for my own battery choice. My battery pack is also LA but uses carbon fibre to increase the surface area and add strength. They are not too radical but the claims are impresive and I have taken them at face value. Elecsol, the makers, claim that their 110Ah 12V batteries can be recharged 1000 times from 80% DOD and that "no sulphation" will occur. (So why won't they last for ever?) I have run my trike for 400 yards before global warming made it snow just before Christmas. The ice is still stopping any further testing! If you Google "Elecsol" you might find it interesting. They supplied my 6 batteries directly and customised them with thicker plates to give 62Ah in one hour rather than the usual 47Ah. I only intend to drive my light weight trike for 27 miles in just less than one hour. The batteries weigh 25.2Kg each which is a better energy to weight rario than the usual rivals.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Duxuk said:


> Good luck Frankencar. I have been criticised by a few individuals for my own battery choice. My battery pack is also LA but uses carbon fibre to increase the surface area and add strength. They are not too radical but the claims are impresive and I have taken them at face value. Elecsol, the makers, claim that their 110Ah 12V batteries can be recharged 1000 times from 80% DOD and that "no sulphation" will occur. (So why won't they last for ever?) I have run my trike for 400 yards before global warming made it snow just before Christmas. The ice is still stopping any further testing! If you Google "Elecsol" you might find it interesting. They supplied my 6 batteries directly and customised them with thicker plates to give 62Ah in one hour rather than the usual 47Ah. I only intend to drive my light weight trike for 27 miles in just less than one hour. The batteries weigh 25.2Kg each which is a better energy to weight rario than the usual rivals.


Sweet, I'll definitely look those up. Nice to hear some encouragement for a change, especially from someone who's not afraid to make a bold decision. Hope those work out for you (darn ice).


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Well if you have these batteries you should be giving reports on how good or bad they are. Don't give some bull about GW or snow or ice or cold or what ever. We all drive in severe weather and if you have them in an electric car then by all means go drive and give a good report or bad report. That is what these forums are about. They are not for vapor ware but for real products to be tested and reported upon. Come on guys if you have some new stuff in your vehicle then all is good. Prove it good or bad. It matters not. It just proves it works or does not work.
> 
> No bogus stuff. I do not see much in the way of information about the battery technology on that site. I will research further. I won't hold my breath. You have not been able to provide much information. One charge could net you 400 yards.
> 
> ...


Wow. Okay, just because you put a smiley at the end of your post doesn't excuse that kind of jack-assery. I honestly expected a lot more positive energy from this community and I've really been disappointed so far. Maybe some of the brilliant people on these forums have an ego to match? First of all, did you notice the word _Trike_? So maybe the vehicle isn't suited for icy roads. And you don't know just how icy it is either. Yeah we all drive in severe whether, but there's a limit you know, a point where it becomes foolish and dangerous to drive ANY vehicle.

So don't be so impatient with people. Why didn't you just say, "Hey, cool that you're trying some new stuff. Can't wait to see if it works or not. Could you start a new thread and let me know so I can keep track of your reports on the tech? I'd love to see some real evidence of whether it works or not."
Would that have been so much worse? No, you had to make an ass out of yourself.

And since you clearly don't read before you post foolishness, let me say not to bother giving me crap because I DONT HAVE THE BATTERIES and I ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT. So please, no more negativity on this thread, that's not what this is about, and that's not what this community is about. Come on people, aren't we the ones who should be excited about new technology, hopeful, and optimistic? Aren't we the ones battling pessimists and trying to encourage people to move forward to new, better technologies? Isn't that what EV's are all about?

If you think so, you're welcome to keep posting here. If you're just a nay-sayer, then you should just keep it to yourself.


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## Duxuk (Jul 11, 2009)

I think you may have confused my single post with those of Frankencar there, Gottdi. I don't wish to hijack someone else's post but I promise I will fully report my experiences with Elecsol batteries on this forum. First I need to do an MSVA test to register my trike. Then I can legally drive on the road. This will take me 2 months at least so you will need to be patient. The reports you have picked up on Elecsol are rather old, much progress seems to have been made subsequently. One problem seems to be that people treat carbon fibre bateries as they would other lead acids. If you charge to 14.8v or higher you will cause gassing which will be detrimental to your service life. I know that older Elecsol batteries were prone to sudden inexplicable failure but there are many stories on the web of users still satisfied after more than five years of use. The 5 year garauntee is quite impressive, i think. I was impressed that I got a phone call after I had Emailed a question. Which enabled me to tell them exactly what I was looking for. I was interested in this thread because I saw the parallels between the Elecsol batteries and the CNT technology which Frankencar is hoping for-both use carbon in different forms to increase the plates contact area with the electrolyte. If you were in England right now you'd understand why we are all talking about the weather. Actually, forget that, we never have a conversation here without mentioning the weather, good or bad.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Duxuk said:


> II don't wish to hijack someone else's post...


Hijack away! I too am looking forward to your results. After all, they could prove to be a nice alternative should the CNTs fall through.


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## Duxuk (Jul 11, 2009)

I am going to start a new thread entitled "Carbon fibre battery technolgy" which some readers of this thread might be intrested in. I'll obviously put it in the batteries section. Hopefully someone will have some experience to relate, though hopefully not that fool from the UK who fried his 220Ah batteries after 18 months and has subsequently sought to rubbish them!


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

UPDATE: Ecoloclap Inc has delivered the first batch of CNT LA batteries to the US for independent testing. The results are to be published once available, and then Ecolocap will move forward with marketing/distribution. So we may be only a few months out from having some CNT's in my garage!

Full article: http://www.ecolocap.com/site/en/pre...ounces-first-u-s-delivery-of-cnt-battery.html


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Frankencar said:


> UPDATE: Ecoloclap Inc has delivered the first batch of CNT LA batteries to the US for independent testing. The results are to be published once available, and then Ecolocap will move forward with marketing/distribution. So we may be only a few months out from having some CNT's in my garage!
> 
> Full article: http://www.ecolocap.com/site/en/pre...ounces-first-u-s-delivery-of-cnt-battery.html


Awesome news! Let's hope this technology turns out to be as good as it sounds!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

sounds like bull to me. I'd want some independent testing in the US before I considered spending a dollar.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Yep, I'd be deeply distrustful that they even consider sales before independent testing.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Just hittin' the subscribe button.....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I started a thread on this in the Battery category instead of under Frankencar....


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> sounds like bull to me. I'd want some independent testing in the US before I considered spending a dollar.





PhantomPholly said:


> Yep, I'd be deeply distrustful that they even consider sales before independent testing.



Darn right. That's why they delivered the first batch to the US *for independent testing!* From time to time, I find that reading more than the first four words of a sentence can really put things in perspective. 

J/K. For clarification, the company is Korean/American co-owned. They've delivered some units to their US facility which are going to be used for independent testing, presumably by an independent US lab.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Okay, so on with the build. I have a, maybe too-simple wiring diagram, but all feedback is appreciated:

http://www.frankencar.org/images/wiring-diagramV1.jpg


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

*Racks and Mounting hardware.*

Moving on with the build, I am in the works of developing my racks/mounting hardware for the motor, batteries, etc. I'm not too sure on any of that. In fact, if there's anyone in the Portland, OR or Sherwood area who knows about this stuff, PM me because I'd love to have some help with all this before I commit to any ideas.

Also anyone with any advice at all on racks/mounts/battery boxes...please speak up!

Thanks


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: Racks and Mounting hardware.*

well..... here are some tidbits to consider.

1x1 angle iron makes good 'edges' for your rack, you'll need somebody to weld... Aluminum is lighter and won't rust, but far more expensive and trickier to weld. If you have a local steel wholesaler, you can often get pieces less than 4' long for 'scrap' prices, or check for local recycle/salvage yards too.

in design, leave room for insulation, or at the very least plan on space blanket and bubble wrap layer for winter. If you can swing it, plan on either flat pad heaters, or SOMETHING to add a little heat to the battery boxes to retain your capacity.

the box itself can be 5/8 marine plywood, or 1/4" polypropelene plastic screwed to your edges. plywood will need paint... steel edges should be undercoated...

If you have a box that opens to the interior, it should be sealed up tight so gassing doesn't get into the cabin, and small vent holes to the OUTSIDE for venting. fans optional during charging, but MUST be brushless if you use fans to prevent sparks.

I would HIGHLY suggest planning to install a watering system if you are using FLA batteries. Consistant watering is key to long life, and not dealing with individual caps and cell filling is the key to long life and happiness.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Yes, a watering system will be installed. I went with the US12v XC batteries, 12 of them. They have been ordered and should arrive next week sometime.

Also for the mounts, I've gone and got myself some paid help from a cool guy who's a welder/fab/structural engineer/all around problem solver. It's definitely costing me, but better to pay the bucks than to procrastinate and have an inferior design.

He should be coming over today and we'll work through to get all the mounting hardware done and done, but as I write this he's two and a half hours late...dang.

Anyway, I'll update with pics when I have the racks/hardware in place.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

*Frankencar Build Thread Cont.*

Long overdue update - 

If anyone cares, I'm sorry that I'm bad with keeping the build thread up to date, plus a major problem with starting tangents (no more CNT comments here!)

So I've got all the welding/fabrication done, and due to a slight curvature of the underlying frame, I will be fitting seven batteries in the rear box and five in the engine bay. The rear box has been painted with truck bed liner to make it nice and tough, and the seven batteries are laid in, just awaiting wiring and the watering system. The box has fans on two sides, which also need to be wired. Currently working out details so the fans current will connect when the gas door is open.

Speaking of the gas door, that's done too. I've installed a 40 foot cord reel on it's side poking out the gas door (cut down to maybe 30 feet now) and put a male plug on the end. So instead of an extension cord, I just pull out the cable, and reel it back in when I'm done! I like it.

To make a very very very long and extremely painful story ridiculously short: The motor is almost mated perfectly. Everything is linking up, but when I try to run the motor, the clutch is slipping. Next step is to pull the motor out (for the seventh time, I think) and reduce the spacing between the flywheel and pressure plate, tighten that guy down, reinstall the motor, and bleed the clutch.

Also, don't use ElectroAuto (I told you its a long story but I'm NOT going into it right now. I'll do a post on my blog at frankencar.org in the future about it).

Next goal is to get the motor mounted and working, then get the rear box finished, then I'll start on the safety fuses, main contractor, etc. Getting excited! If anybody has cautionary advice for this point in a conversion please let me know. Otherwise, I'll try to keep you posted!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

*Re: Frankencar Build Thread Cont.*

First, I just want to say, awesome avatar pic!



Frankencar said:


> Speaking of the gas door, that's done too. I've installed a 40 foot cord reel on it's side poking out the gas door (cut down to maybe 30 feet now) and put a male plug on the end. So instead of an extension cord, I just pull out the cable, and reel it back in when I'm done! I like it.
> 
> If anybody has cautionary advice for this point in a conversion please let me know.


One caution on using a retractable cord reel is that the rated current typically applies when completely unreeled, so keep heat issues in mind. I'm installing one in mine that I plan to use mostly reeled (I don't want to pull out 30 feet to reach a plug 10 feet away) but I cut a bunch of holes in it for passive ventilation, and will be adding a PC fan for a little active cooling.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Frankencar Build Thread Cont.*



Ziggythewiz said:


> First, I just want to say, awesome avatar pic!
> 
> 
> 
> One caution on using a retractable cord reel is that the rated current typically applies when completely unreeled, so keep heat issues in mind. I'm installing one in mine that I plan to use mostly reeled (I don't want to pull out 30 feet to reach a plug 10 feet away) but I cut a bunch of holes in it for passive ventilation, and will be adding a PC fan for a little active cooling.


That is very true and important. The extension reel can melt and catch alight itself or something else, seen it happen.

I am planning on having maybe two or three leads of different lengths so I can completely unravel the one I use or possibly join two, but only in emergencies and under supervision.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Great advice, thanks! I will look into the same active/passive cooling you mention here and integrate it into my battery box fan circuit.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Okay, more trouble on the clutch front. I have got the flywheel/clutch to install correctly, the clutch disc is engaging the splined shaft...but when I put power to the motor (12V), the clutch is slipping (I think). Sounds like the flywheel and clutch cover/pressure plate are spinning freely, but the wheels won't turn.

I've been playing with spacers between the pressure plate and flywheel, but if I tighten it down any more than it is, the splines start pulling in, which would actually make the grip on the disc loosen, wouldn't it? Any clutch masters out there, I need your help!


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Unless the Mazda flywheel/clutch assembly is completely different from all the other clutches I've ever worked on, there should be no spacers between the flywheel and the pressure plate. When assembling the thing, the flywheel is bolted to the crankshaft (motor shaft or coupler in your case); the clutch disc is set onto that, with an alignment tool to hold it centered relative to the motor shaft. The pressure plate is then installed over top of that, and you evenly and gradually torque the six or eight pressure plate bolts to 20-25 ft-lbs (depends on the bolt spec) and you're done. In the process the clutch spring is compressed about 1/4 inch, and that provides the clamping force to transfer the motor torque to the transmission.

If you don't already have one then get the Mazda (or Haynes or Clymer) shop manual for your car; it will address that topic in the required detail.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Yeah, I think you are right normally, but without the spacers the clutch spring (is that the big spines on the back of the pressure plate?) compresses all the way in, so that they are pointing inwards toward the clutch disc. I showed it in that state to a Mazda guy (runs an rx7-only shop in a nearby town, he is the one who got me the right flywheel) who said that needing spacers on aftermarket parts is not uncommon.

However, if they are supposed to compress somewhat, then maybe I have this figured out after all... should those spines/clutch spring be more parallel to the clutch disc? If so, then I'm close with my spacing and hopefully that should work out.

I just ordered the Haynes manual, so I'll see what that says too 

Thanks all for the continued support!


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Great googaly-moogaly....it has been a long time since I've updated. And in that time... I got a test drive in! It is really rough right now, needs a ton of work still, but it moves, finally! This is a huge day for me! Now on another note, there are a lot of noises coming from the car, most concerning of which is a high-pitched squeal coming from what seems to be the motor. It only happens when I am going very slowly. After I pick up speed it stops. But before the car starts moving up until I stop crawling, it happens. Any thoughts? Here is a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JpXTSfLhqY


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Are you running a curtis? If so it will whine at under 10% throttle because of the frequency it runs at.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Are you running a curtis? If so it will whine at under 10% throttle because of the frequency it runs at.


Yes I am. So that's normal then? I don't suppose it hurts anything?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes, perfectly normal. It really bugged me at first, then I got used to it and now rarely even hear it. How often do you really want to be at under 10% throttle?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Frankencar said:


> high-pitched squeal coming from what seems to be the motor. It only happens when I am going very slowly. After I pick up speed it stops.



perfectly normal controller noise.
congrats!


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Thanks! Now on to other things....vacuum pump/brakes, transmission oil, heater/defroster, dash/instruments, paktrakr, clutch....so much more to do!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Frankencar said:


> Thanks! Now on to other things....vacuum pump/brakes, transmission oil, heater/defroster, dash/instruments, paktrakr, clutch....so much more to do!


looks like you are on the right track w/ vacuum pump. My only tip there is that if you don't mount it horizontal with the feet 'down', the stock screws are too small to stand up to suspended weight plus vibration for long, and they WILL shear. So if going in any other orientation, use clamps or straps of some sort.

tranny oil.... 'royal purple' is good stuff, and available at lots of auto stores.

heater... easy to slip a ceramic into the duct work in most cases. But, if you've got the dash all apart anyway, you might want to slip it into the stock heater-core. I have a whole section on my install into the duct on my website...

instruments I don't have too much to say about except I think just a EvDisplay and a speedo is all you really need. 

what's wrong with your clutch?


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Dtbaker, thanks for the tips! I'll definitely look at my vacuum pump mounting, and I'll look into royal purple and read your heater info. I do have the dash out, so I do plan on putting in the stock heater core, assuming I can figure it all out again...this project has been slow, so it's been a long time since I took it all apart.

As for the clutch, well...I'm hoping it just needs to be bled. For awhile we had issues with the flywheel not being into the shaft far enough, which was part of it...that's a long story involving electro auto, turbo and non-turbo models, mayhem, tears and confusion. But, I ultimately got the right parts and basically scooted the adapter about 1/4" forward on the shaft and that should all be fine now. The bell housing, however, seems to be sitting very slightly lower than the stock configuration which is stressing the slave cylinder tubing and I'm worried may be leaking out all the fluid. Anyway, I need to take some time to try and loosen that and bleed it so the clutch pedal works again. Hopefully. I really don't want to have to take the motor out at this point....


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Okay, I got a lot done there. Manual transmission oil changed, ordered some shifter parts...looking good.

Right now I am working on the heater and need some pointers. I bought two 1500 watt ceramic heaters, stripped the elements and modified the existing casing to the heater core, one on each opening. My question is, how do I wire this crazy thing? I've got a picture here, but basically I'm working with five connectors:

From left to right in the picture

1. Red wire jumped to wire 5
2. White wire jumped to wire 4
3. Black wire
4. White wire with white wire and red wire leads
5. Red wire

I have no idea how to wire this up for dc pack voltage. I have my relay for 12v to activate pack voltage, but I'm not sure where to connect the pack voltage to on the element. How do I translate this into a positive and negative terminal? Also, any recommendations on a fuse rating? Thanks all!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

check out the section on my website on heaters... I have some close-up pix in the Gallery I think of the heater element wires. I would also be careful with the fusing; even with just one core it pulls 30-40 amps for a second until it warms up. I would strongly consider switching to allow switching your cores on separately, or at least sequentially!


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Alright! Heater core ready to go. Installation may be another issue but...time to break out all the old dash parts! Anyway onto other problems.

I did something...stupid. I needed to charge my 12v accessory battery, which I plan to run off the DC/DC converter to keep it topped off (using the battery to keep the voltage steady). Problem is...I left my little trickle charger on the battery too long. Like for a couple days. I thought I had taken it off but was wrong.

Now the battery is only showing like 4.5v. Is there any hope for that little guy? What about when run off the dc/dc converter? I really don't want to buy another one, those things are expensive and I'm over budget as-is. If not then I'll do what I gotta do but...battery geniuses, what say you?


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Well the accessory battery was dead and had to be replaced, but I got that taken care of.

Now I have installed the heater core and the rest of the vent systems, and roughed in the dashboard. All the instruments on my custom instrument panel are hooked up and appear to be working.

What remains is getting all the normal instrumentation to work. I plugged everything in and hooked up some grounding wires, but it looks like I have a short somewhere in my main battery leads. It doesn't appear to be linked to any of the parts I've added thank goodness, but nontheless this is a serious problem.

If I can't get this to work, then no headlights, radio, fans, etc. That's no good.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You should really invest in a float charger ($5). Low power like a trickle, but designed to not overcharge, and can be left on indefinitely.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Yeah, I used a discount I got at Batteries Plus from buying the new battery to buy a better charger that does trickle. Much better charger.

I have the DC/DC converter, I'll see how well that keeps it topped off. If it doesn't I may get a trickle charger to charge the accessory battery when plugged in.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Just wanted to update:

The heaters are plugged in and set up, and the car is basically done! All that is left is some finishing work. Off the top of my head I need to:

1. Finish installing the dash
2. Install the Stereo (non-critical)
3. Install the BMS (PakTrakr)
4. Clean up the wiring
5. Install the under-panning
6. Bolt in the seats and steering wheel
7. Finishing work on the interior - mostly carpeting the rear battery compartment (non-critical)
8. Drive that sucker!


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Your blog page sucks. You really need to update it or go to google and use there blog and just redo your blog for everyone. No photos and links to other pages don't work.
> 
> Whats up with that blog site?


HAHA, I know, right?!?! My hosting company moved everything to another server and BROKE ALL MY WEBPAGES!!! They apparently didn't back anything up and I just have not had the time to fix the blog site (other sites were critical to things like actually making money). Just haven't had the energy to rebuild that sucker, which is what I'm going to have to do. Sorry about that.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

There, got the links back up...will have to wait until I get home to fix further. I don't have my images with me currently.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Okay, it has been awhile. Here is what's happening:

The car is mostly done. It runs and drives. The brakes are a little weak, any thoughts on the booster, or any special tricks would be appreciated. What has happened, is it had to go in for transmission repairs. Those repairs are done, but the accessory battery has died. This is like the third time. It seems that all the stuff I have plugged into the battery to charge it (DC/DC converter, trickle charger, etc) is draining the battery when it is not charging the battery. Any advice on this? The battery seems to drain in a day or two, and I don't want it constantly plugged in. What if I have to leave it unplugged for several hours or a day? It might not start up again.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Use a battery disconnect switch. Turn it on when you're using it or charging, off when not. Or if you park outside and have low power requirements, try a solar panel. I never have to 'charge'.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Use a battery disconnect switch. Turn it on when you're using it, off when not.


Your logic sir. It blinds me.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

or..... reconfigure so the dc-dc is always 'on' powered from main pack. aux battery is in parallel just to soak up sudden big-amp startup sag such as vacuum pump coming on. There will still be steady draw from stuff on standby, but main pack should have MANY days of capacity to support the parasitic loads.

...last I checked I think my car 'lost' about 1kWhr over 5 days just sitting from various small loads. If I were going away for more than a week I would disconnect aux, and flip main circuit breaker.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> or..... reconfigure so the dc-dc is always 'on' powered from main pack. aux battery is in parallel just to soak up sudden big-amp startup sag such as vacuum pump coming on. There will still be steady draw from stuff on standby, but main pack should have MANY days of capacity to support the parasitic loads.
> 
> ...last I checked I think my car 'lost' about 1kWhr over 5 days just sitting from various small loads. If I were going away for more than a week I would disconnect aux, and flip main circuit breaker.



I thought about that, but my car just uses FLA's and I didn't want to drain any range while sitting. I think the switch is a better solution for my case, and I think I already have one.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Frankencar said:


> I thought about that, but my car just uses FLA's and I didn't want to drain any range while sitting. I think the switch is a better solution for my case, and I think I already have one.



in this case, be sure you have switches on BOTH your main pack (probably a big fat circuit breaker? and another on the aux 12v battery.


I wired my dc-dc 'always on' from main pack because I didn't want the clock and radio to reset all the time, and didn't want to have to remember to switch aux 12v battery on and off.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> in this case, be sure you have switches on BOTH your main pack (probably a big fat circuit breaker? and another on the aux 12v battery.
> 
> 
> I wired my dc-dc 'always on' from main pack because I didn't want the clock and radio to reset all the time, and didn't want to have to remember to switch aux 12v battery on and off.


Yeah, I've got a big circuit breaker on the main pack. That is a good point, I'll have to look into that...


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Ok, battery switch is in. I think this will be a big help. I installed it just behind the driver's side seat (kind of a weird place, but convenient). 

It drives MUCH better after the transmission repairs. I think it still needs a wheel alignment, but that's no big deal. Now on to the last two problems...

1. Tachometer. I have one, I am using this: http://www.rechargecar.com/product/warptm-speed-sensor/

With this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00029JXOI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Only it doesn't seem to work. The tach will read up to 2-3k rpm, and then it drops, as though it can't read it fast enough? I have repositioned my speed sensor, so I'm sure it's not that, unless it is defective. Ideas?

2. Brakes. My brakes are not tight enough. I have bled the brakes, and that seems good. Any suggestions for the brake booster/vacuum pump? I just kind of put it together...would it be better if I sealed all the hose hookups with some kind of silicone or other adhesive?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

try bigger bolt heads under the sensor. There are two parts to reading with a prox sensor, 1 is pulse frequency ( RPM), 2 is pulse width. A really fat pulse is easier to sense and do things with. mine on the 3 tooth hub are 3/4" across.

Also look to shield the connecting cable if not already done. worst case is some aluminum foil wrapped entirely around and grounded on one end.

if your brake pump cycles more than once every couple of minutes, the booster needs a fix. if the pedal slowly heads to the floor, you have a leak internal somewhere. if you pump the brakes and the pedal gets stiffer, then you have an air bubble somewhere.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> if your brake pump cycles more than once every couple of minutes, the booster needs a fix. if the pedal slowly heads to the floor, you have a leak internal somewhere. if you pump the brakes and the pedal gets stiffer, then you have an air bubble somewhere.


My vacuum pump pretty much goes constantly. Does this mean it needs a fix, or I have an air leak somewhere?


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

OK, so now my car just won't run. Strangely, it seems to run while plugged in (not fully tested but it ran last night while plugged in) and the batteries seem to be charged. What happens is I press the accelerator, and the motor seems to turn, just for an instant, then nothing. The accessory battery is fine, and it all seems to be connected properly, but it just won't go when unplugged. Ideas?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Do you hear the contactor turn on and off? If it runs for just an instant that's likely the controller caps releasing the precharge.


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Do you hear the contactor turn on and off? If it runs for just an instant that's likely the controller caps releasing the precharge.


Yeah I hear the contactor clicking shut but not open. Another strange symptom...my charger is beeping as though no batteries are connected, even though I verified that the wires are good...it's like I have a disconnect somewhere in my pack? But that doesn't make any sense, it was just running the other night, and even last night it ran a bit...


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## Frankencar (Nov 17, 2008)

Could my controller be fried? How could I test that?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What voltage are you seeing across the controller terminals? You may have a blown fuse or left open a maintenence disconnect.

Which controller is it? The Curtis manual shows a bench setup for testing, basically you have some lights replacing the motor to provide a test load.


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