# Crazy Bry's Geo Metro Conversion



## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Well, I have wanted to build an EV since 2008. Two years later, I am finally getting started.



My goals are steep, but realistic....

48V with the ability to upgrade to 72V
+/-20 mile range
+/-30MPH top speed - 25MPH working speed
Price - three digits - $999
Well, today I picked up the donor car. It is far from new, with some rust on the rocker panels (rust has NOT attacked the structural channels yet), some minor rust on the doors, and a banged up hood. The ICE is almost dead, running on 2 of the 3 cylinders. 
I was reluctant on the car, due to the amount of rust, and some minor disassembly of the interior (center console was out) BUT, after some friendly negotiations, we agreed to scrap value ($175). Worst case scenario, I can scrap the car out, and break even.
As of right now, there is only minor repairs to be made - one rear brake, and some misc cosmetic pieces.









Here we are picking the car up. Previous owner, Wayne, saying a tearful good-bye to his 191,000 mile friend. I did invite Wayne to this forum to come check out his former car, and to see the progress of how it's coming along.










She made it home. Special Thanks to Scott's Towing, who was nice enough to accommodate the transportation of the car back to my house (30 mile trip).

After unloading the car, I jump started it, and got it to (barely) run. I made two last trips around the house to see how the car shifted clutch-less, and could only manage to try 1st &2nd gears out. HINT: a twin cylinder metro is NO powerhouse!! I drove it up to the garage, and made a mental note - this is the last time that gasoline will EVER move this car!!










Here's what we started with. Greasy grimy fun!!!










Tonight I got the antifreeze drained, the radiator removed, wiring harness disconnected from the ICE, and some overflow bottles removed. Also got the exhaust unbolted from the manifold.

Sorry for the poor picture quality. I'm working with an old cell phone camera, so it is what it is I guess....


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## surgy (May 15, 2009)

hey man, nice to see your project. I love the low voltage idea, whats your curb weight with and without the ICE. Close estimations are fine. Also I would love to read about your plan and see a parts list. I am planning on converting an early 90s kawasaki ninja and I want a 48 volt system. I figured your weights are probably a bit higher and it would be nice too see your expected performance.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

That looks like a nice ride! I bet it just has a burnt exhaust valve. Half a day's work and $50 and you'd have a good 40 mpg+ runner. In all seriousness, sell off your parts on eBay and you should easily get your money back on it. I very much look forward to your conversion!! And actually shifting clutchless is MUCH harder with the ICE than with an electric. In fact, I think that my car shifts more easily clutchless and electric versus clutch and ICE.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Bry,

Looks like you're off to a good start. Best of luck in the project, and please keep us up to date on your progress! Remember, we love pictures, we don't even care if they're from old cell phones, just so long as there's pictures.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Well, I got a chance to work on it today.

During the course of EVents, I have decided on a name for this project. It's just a preliminary thought, but I'm thinking it will be called the gEVo (Kinda like the 80's band Devo....intertwined with Geo and EV).

ANYWAYS, I started to just tinker with removing small minor things, hoses and vacuum lines and the such. Then the starter came out. Then, a helper and I started talking about how light these motors are. We thought it would be funny if the two of us lifted it out by hand. We chuckled about it for a bit, and left it at that. 

So out of curiosity, I removed the head.










Then about 8 bolts later the engine was loose. By this time, my helper left. All by my lonesome, out it came! With nothing but the arms god gave me. In all reality, it wasn't that bad!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Well, now with the motor out, I feel that there are some rust issues that I should deal with. Yup, the typical Geo Metro rust on the Y frame. 

Once again, I enlisted Scott's Towing to haul the gEVo to their facilities, and weld up the holes. 












Then I had the engine bay steam cleaned / pressure washed / degrease / de-dead-moused.











THEN, we noticed there was a hole on the opposite Y member after blowing all the solidified grime off.












Dennis took right to welding up all of the rust holes. He filled all of the holes with 1/4" stainless rods, and removed all of the metal that was too rusty to weld on.









So back into the welding shop.....


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

looks cool keep those pics comming, you can make a good city car with 48v, my car started out at 48v, and I run it right now at 60v and get great performance and range, so 48 is doable.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/96-budget-electric-neon-42893.html

it says 72v but I was using a 72v kelly and was not happy with it but it does run now on 60v, and I can still go up to 72if I want.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Keep up the good work!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Courtesy of Scott's Towing the car was towed back to my house, where I got a bit of work done today.

Started by removing the gas tank. 4 1/2" headed bolts, cut a few hoses, and out it came.










Then I robbed a pieice of cardboard and made a template. Simple enough.









Then traced it out on some 3?16" steel I have laying around.









Tommorrow I have an appointment to go look at a forklift and/or some forklift parts. My tenative supplier has been more than helpful, and has been super to work with!

Then on the way home, I intend to pick up 4 good used batteries!

I hate to put the cart in front of the horse, but this thing is really falling together!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Well, physically, I got nothing done today.....

BUT, I did get allot of headway made, in line of setting things up!

First I made a visit to the electronics supplier,
http://www.klinkequipment.com/ 

I talked with Brian, and he was MORE than helpful. He explained the basics, and steered me in the right direction. After looking at several units,he found me one that is tailor fit to my application. A 5200lb (no battery) ride on stand up order picker. I didn't look at the capacity, or bother him with my compulsive photo shooting (sorry, only one picture) as I didn't want to take up his whole day.

The unit has an EV100, with a 8" (approximately) diameter motor, and about 12" long. Plus, it has a pump motor about the same size.

After some contemplating, we decided that it may be easier if I disassemble the unit there, and take what I need, leaving the rest.

I did manage to sneak a photo of the motor - couldn't resist!










I am setting up a day next week to go do the tear down, and retrieve necessary parts. This should be a cake walk, as EVERYTHING is right there, in easy access. An access door opens right up, and right there it is! 

On a side note, Brian is giving me such a deal on the parts, I am giving him a free sponsorship on one of my racing school busses!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

*EQUALS*









I called Jims Golf Carts the tother day, and inquired about used golf cart batteries. After a short trip to Reedsville, we aquired out(4) T1275 Trojan deep cycle batteries.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

First off, I owe a great big *THANK YOU!!!* to Brian at Klink Equipment, in Freedom*.*

With his help, I have aquired my EV100 controller. Plus, I aquired a potbox. PLUS, I aquired some misc switches, and other doo dads.Basically, I got everything in the engine bay of this old forklift, who gladly gave it's life for my cause.....









PLUS, I aquired not one, but TWO motors!!!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

As you can see, there is a gear set on this motor, the one I planned (and still do) on using.













The gear set is actually in two peices. The out gear slops back and forth a bit. The inner most gear is secured. The shaft of this motor is splined, but externally. So I am thinking that I will permenently couple (via welder) the two gear sets, the attach the splined portion of the clutch plate to the gearset, and viola!!! Instant coupler! I am going to have to arrange to have a machine shop to this, so it is pefectly alligned.


I pulled the pump motor as well. But that has the dreaded internal splines. I also saved the pump, so I could save the input shaft, and hopefully utilize this motor as well.











The pump motor has got some advanced brushes too! Only two power inputs...


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

I didn't take a single note to where everything goes, though......
I did, however take lots and lots of pictures! One for each wire, to be exact!









If you would like to see the rest, they can be found here...
http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/crazybry79/Mobile Uploads/



Here's the motor plate for the motor I'm using.










I did also get the adaptor plate cut.....but right now its so far from pretty, its not even picture worthy!!! Lack of patients and a plasma cutter is not a good thing!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

One of my most daunting tasks was the coupler. I was not sure on exactly how to make it, and didn't know 100% how to procede. Well thanx to this forum, and one member especially, it consisted of about 5 minutes of work.

First, I started with the gearset.









I bought a "hub" from Tractor Supply Company. The hub actually fit a touch loose. So, on the smooth end of the gears, I wrapped masking tape around. I cut the tape so that it didnt overlap where the ends meet (to keep things perfectly true) and slid the hub onto the gearset. I did the same with the clutch hub. I put everything in the vice (clamped so that the whole assembly was pressed together - this prevented warpage when the first welds were applied), and did a bit of welding.....


Viola!









Even got the motor in! Now the only question was......HOW do i get my foot from between the axle and the motor!!!!









Now I need to figure out how to make a spacer that goes between the motor and adaptor plate (right now the output shaft of the motor and the input shaft of the trans are tight up against each other.....

Not to worry - the motor is sitting on a jack....


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> One of my most daunting tasks was the coupler. I was not sure on exactly how to make it, and didn't know 100% how to procede. Well thanx to this forum, and one member especially, it consisted of about 5 minutes of work.
> 
> First, I started with the gearset.
> 
> ...


 
here is how I did mine, First I used 1/4" steel plate it was 3 foot square, then I I put the bell housing of the tranny, ontop of it and traced the edges with a sharpie, I marked the bolt holes, On some i could just stick the sharpie through and mark it but on some I made a reference mark and used my tape measure to find the center to drill. then i cut the edges that i traced and drilled all the bolt holes, then i measures from the bottom of the tranny to the center of the shaft and drilled a 3" hole with my hole saw. then I measured the motor mine was 7' round so it cut a 10 square piece of steel and drilled a 3" hole in it, centered it on the motor, and marked and drilled the bolt holes. now I bolted the tranny plate to the tranny, and the motor plate to the motor and put them together with the coupler, then measured the space between the 2 plates and cut some steel to fit between them, and welded then together, whola adaptor plate, looks like this, the square pieces with the bolts going through them are just to hold the 2 plates together for welding and can be removed before bolting to the tranny, but i skipped that step.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

OK, copied your idea, kinda.

I took three peices of 1x2 and flipped them sideways. Drilled holes for the bolts to run through, and sandwiched them between the motor and adapter plate.




















IT'S IN!!! IT'S IN!!!! (irony was, a song was playing as I bolted it up....("Nothings gonna stop us now"~~~)


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Nice! You sure work quickly! You'll be needing video now so we can see a wheel moving from electric power!!


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

now you need to make a support for the end of the motor, dont just rely on the tranny for support. but it looks good.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

billhac said:


> now you need to make a support for the end of the motor, dont just rely on the tranny for support. but it looks good.


I intend on making a bracket that goes from the original motor mount on the passenger side, that extends down to the adapter plate extentions. Unfortunatly, there is nothing to directly bolt to the end of the motor. With nothing on the motor, the whole assembly sags dangerously low, and exerts alot of force on the two remaining motor mounts.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

vpoppv said:


> Nice! You sure work quickly! You'll be needing video now so we can see a wheel moving from electric power!!


Thanx! Normally, that isn't the case......

I actually had time to do that last night, but I wasn't exactly sure which two of the four inputs I needed to put power to to simply make it spin off 12V. I can handle the original OEM wiring, because I know where everything went......but beyond that~~~~~I'm still the electric novice! 

Any input??


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

crazybry79 said:


> Thanx! Normally, that isn't the case......
> 
> I actually had time to do that last night, but I wasn't exactly sure which two of the four inputs I needed to put power to to simply make it spin off 12V. I can handle the original OEM wiring, because I know where everything went......but beyond that~~~~~I'm still the electric novice!
> 
> Any input??



The nameplate on your motor has a connection diagram that tells you exactly how to hook it up. You have to use all 4 terminals.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Usually it says A1, A2, S1, S2 or something like that. You need to jumper 2 of them to make a full circuit. Just wire two poles to each other, and power the other two. I'm sure that makes no sense. Just watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BenjaminNelson#p/u/152/0enVmqBZzKg


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> I intend on making a bracket that goes from the original motor mount on the passenger side, that extends down to the adapter plate extentions. Unfortunatly, there is nothing to directly bolt to the end of the motor. With nothing on the motor, the whole assembly sags dangerously low, and exerts alot of force on the two remaining motor mounts.


here is how I did my motor support, 

1. Measure from the firewall (the wall with the windshield) to a good sturdy part of the bumper.
2. Go to home depot and get square tubing. It comes in 4 foot pieces, and get the steel tubing, not aluminum. Buy 2 pieces, they will be about 10 bucks for both.
3. Cut the first piece at whatever the measurement was from the firewall to the frame. Secure that piece to the car with bolts in the position that you measured from, trying to keep it as close to the end of the motor as possible.
Jack up the motor with a floor jack until it is level. Now measure from the bottom of the motor to the floor and write down that measurement. Next measure from the floor to the top of the piece that you just installed and write that measurement down. Subtract the smaller measurement from the bigger one and cut 2 pieces of square tubing at whatever that measurement is. Now measure across the motor and cut a third piece at whatever that is. Now for the tricky part, take the shorter piece ( the one from across the motor) and put it long ways between the other two pieces. then weld it together.
It should support the weight of the motor, and look like this,
just a quick sketch of how mine looks.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Got my pot box made, and installed!!! WOOT WOOT!









THEN I got the motor mount done, and thought, what the heck.....lets install the controller and contactors! What the heck....might as well wire it up!!!


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> Got my pot box made, and installed!!! WOOT WOOT!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


great job, pictures please, we love pictures, controller contactor, what ever you did.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Forgot to post the photo of the completed fun-ness!


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> Forgot to post the photo of the completed fun-ness!


looks good, not sure that you have that motor wired right, but it is hard to see in the picture so maybe. but it looks like it is going good for you, have fun.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

love the pot box, cut-it box right?


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

billhac said:


> love the pot box, cut-it box right?


No, it was actually a electrical box for a light switch I knocked out the hole in the back, and drilled two smaller holes to mount the pot box The bonus with this setup is the OEM forklift potbox has a barrel already attached to it, that has a return spring in it No need for an external spring!


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> No, it was actually a electrical box for a light switch I knocked out the hole in the back, and drilled two smaller holes to mount the pot box The bonus with this setup is the OEM forklift potbox has a barrel already attached to it, that has a return spring in it No need for an external spring!


yep, that is what we call them in the electrical trade, they are used when you want to add an outlet or a switch. good idea, if you wanted to you could get a metal cover for it at home depot.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Dilemmas today

The EV100 controller has 6 inputs on it TB1, TB2, TB3, all the way through TB6

TB1 is for the potentiometer input 7k Ohms is no throttle, and 3 Ohms is full throttle. One wire from the pot goes to ground in the 48V system, and the other wire goes to TB1.

Check!

TB2 is for Key switch (Controller sees if the operator has turned on the key. So, I wired a toggle switch up to pack volts, and up to TB2

Check!

TB3 is for seat switch. It ensures the operator is in the seat. So, since I have no seat switch, I jumped TB2 to TB3

Check!

TB4 is the start switch. Again, jumped from TB2.

Check!

TB5 and TB6 is the forward and reverse selector. If the gearshift is in forward, TB5 is energized. If the gearshift is in reverse, TB6 is energized. So , I ran another toggle to pack volts, and to TB5. TB6 is unused.

Check!

Plugged in A B and Z plug (3 factory plugs).

Check!

So.....Moment of truth!!!! Power on - nothing. Gear selector forward - nothing. Accelerator input - nothing.......

%#$&^*& 

So, after some basic wire tracing, I realized that some of the wiring inputs on the TB1-6 also power on contactors (main contactor, and directional contactor). I found those wires, and rewired them in.

OK, here we go again. Main power on - Clunk!!!! Whoo hoo!!!

Gearshift in forward - Clunk!!!! Whoo Hooo!!!

Throttle input - Bzzzzzzzzzzzz.

^#$*&%

I checked around somemore, to no avail. It's actually the motor humming/buzzing. If I put the transmission in gear and push the car, the motor spins over, so its not like its bound up. The buzz does not change with throttle input either - well, actually, when you depress the throttle ever so slightly, the buzz is slightly lower than if pressed a bit further. But after the first 1/8" of throttle travel, thats it - no further change in buzz.

My FIRST thought is that I have the motor wired wrong. Well, if you recall I had taken pictures of every wire I removed. Now when i took the forklift apart, there was NO terminals jumped. (yes, you are correct, A1,A2,S1,S2).

Heres what I had when removed, and it is wired up just the same as when it came out of the forklift. Now, keep in mind that the terminals are not marked on the motor, so I will list them as noted by position in relation to the motor label.

In the pictures, I removed the wire, and noted its location on the controller.

Wire #1 goes to sticker side, away from decal wire goes to "Motor current sensor" - pg 3 of manual. This also looks like its hooked to ground.










Wire #2 - decal side, near decal goes to contactor output. Now I'm assuming that this is the reverse contactor, because this is the the contactor that does NOT fire when switching to "forward" through TB5.










Wire #3 - Non decal side, furthest from decal - goes to A1, right next to the reactor/choke.










Wire #4 - non decal side, closer to decal - goes to contactor ouput. This is the contact that DOES fire when placed in Forward.











Now, I did check voltage at the motor, and at no throttle input, there is 0 volts. When throttle is applied, it climbs towards 1-3 Volts. I did NOT give it full throttle while my head was under the hood, but atLEAST half throttle - and only noted 3ish Volts (Bear with me....I'm DEATHLY afraid of grumpy growling electric motors that arent supposed to be grumpy & growling)

Now, I did check voltage at the motor, and at no throttle input, there is 0 volts. When throttle is applied, it climbs towards 1-3 Volts. I did NOT give it full throttle while my head was under the hood, but atLEAST half throttle - and only noted 3ish Volts (Bear with me....I'm DEATHLY afraid of grumpy growling electric motors that arent supposed to be grumpy & growling)


The only other changes that have been made, is the battery negative I have ran to the mounting base of the controller. Before, the negative ran into a large contactor on the upper right of the panel, and then there was a second wire that came off that contactor and went to controller mount (that contactor isnt firing at this time either)

Also, since the original lift was 24V, I have a battery pack set up at 24V for the time being. (2 trojan 1275 12V batteries - output is 25.59V)


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

My guess would be that the field isn't getting powered. On what terminals did you measure the output voltage? You should also see a voltage on terminals s1-s2.

Humming is normal with a ev100 controller but could also be caused by a dead motor. To rule out the motor as a source of the problem you should try spinning it on 12V. Connect a battery across S1 & A2 and jumper S2 & A1. It should spin if it is ok.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

"It should spin if it's OK" - end quote.

Does growl, and buzz with no spinning count????

Removed motor today. Seems to be a load of slop in the armature. Soooooooo, now i am working on fabricating a mount for the other motor.

 I don't mind work......but I HATE rework!

Grrr.. well maybe if i would have tested it before........


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> "It should spin if it's OK" - end quote.
> 
> Does growl, and buzz with no spinning count????
> 
> ...



yep, hind sight is all ways 20/20


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Out of PURE frustration, I called in the professionals.

Called a local company, Electro-Tech, out of Plymouth WI, and asked what the flipp was up. The person who answered the phone handed me off to a tech. I spoke with the tech for a bit, and told him what was up. He told me that without looking at it he couldn't really do anything over the phone, but i was more than welcome to drop it off. 

He then asked what i was doing.....so i told him. He was so interested, he offered to come up here (it's about a 40 mile hike!) just to check out the project, as he was interested in it!

So this evening he came up. I showed him the ins and outs of my little project. Then he looked at the motor (That by now i had removed). 

Come to find out, the motor I have does NOT have a bearing in the end plate - the bearing is on the gear end (where i now have a coupler!) 
So he checked out the other motor, which I was in the process of installing / making a coupler. He said the other motor is a much better choice - bigger brushes, less wear, newer, ect. BUT theres only 2 terminals.......

So, he dug into the motor (actually took it apart) and showed me where to connect the other two wire.......but i needed to modify it first. So I asked if they could do it for me (figuring I would just blowed my self up!) and he said sure! 

Ill be busy for the next few days, so off the motorS went with him. He even offered to bring the motor back when its done (I think theres going to be a case of beer involved!)

So, a grumpy day for the gEVo turned into a great day!

Another big *THANK YOU!!!!!!!* to Electro Tech! And to Jacob, who donated his time for my cause!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

: blows dust off this old thread :

Dug the gEVo out today, as I got the motor back as of recently. (My bad, not Electro Techs - darned work schedule!)

Hooked motor up to wires......

IT SPINS!!!!

.....But it's verrry slow.

Reversed all the wires, 2 at a time (A1, A2 then S1,S2) to no avail....but direction did reverse.

Im thinking that there needs to be a load on the motor for the controller to supply more power. 

Had to get a new coupler, 'cause I'm using the pump motor now. Tommorrow is the day I do belive!!!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/crazybry79/?action=view&current=VID_20101127_165908.mp4

Heres a video of the problem I'm having. Pardon all the interuptions in the background, and the poor lighting.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l...view&current=VID_20101127_165908.mp4&newest=1

I really would like to see another electric Geo on the road, but I really don't know anything about forklifts, so I can't help with the EV-1. They sure make the connections complicated! Maybe you can find a dirt cheap controller just to get yourself on the road. There's only 3 connections there, plus a couple to the potbox. My head was spinning with the TB2, TB3, TB4, etc! My hat's off to you if you can figure it out.....


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Well.....here's another vid (I feel sorry for you guys, now that I know how to make and post videos!!!)

http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/crazybry79/?action=view&current=VID_20101127_191928.mp4


Hooked motor to 12V direct, to see if motor works. Motor verified OK.

I attempted to isolate the controller from chassis ground. Nope. Ive tried to hook TB4,3,2 up in specified sequece. Nope. I have tried throwing wrenches. Nope - but did feel better.

YES!! If ANYone has upgraded, and wants to get rid of a good controller, say 48-72V.....I am ready to punt!


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## greif (Jun 26, 2010)

ha crazy

hope you get it figured out......I'm in your neck of the woods, between kaukauna and fredom.

hope you can bring it out to the MREA energy fair next year

good luck
gary


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Gary,

Yes! You're about 20 minutes from me.

Howdy neighbor! Good to see someone local on here!

I've been pulling my hair out over this one. It seems everytime I give up, I'll walk away and stew for a minute, then come back with a new idea, or try something else.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm not certain, but it looks like you have the motor wired similar to a SepEx motor, something like this:

```
Contactor       Contactor
  =                   =
  |                   |
,-o-------------------o-,
| S1                 S2 |
|         Motor         |
| A1                 A2 |
'-o-------------------o-'
  |                   |
  |                   |
 SCR                 B-
```
Though I have no idea what is happening between the contactors. If this is the case, it appears that the field isn't being energised, which will lead to very low (or nonexistant) performance. I'd suggest checking if the field is getting power. Most controllers for series-wound motors seem to need to be wired like this:

```
"M-"/"B-"
                      |
,---------------------|-,
| S1 o--,            S2 |
|       | Motor         |
| A1    '----------o A2 |
'-o---------------------'
  |
  |
Controller/M+
```
Could this be the cause of your dilemma?


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Very glad you pointed that out, glad you did.

As you suspected, there is somthing kind of a trick to the contactors. They work as a pair, and they are connected together. When both are de-energized, the circuit is open. When one closes (IE, forward) it closes the circuit between S1 and A2. When the unit is reversed, the forward contactor opens, and the reverse contactor closes, reversing the conections, thus reversing the motor direction.

In short, the contactors are making the circuit in your second diagram.

I also wired the motor up directly, just to insure this one works....and ~~~thank god ~~~~it does!


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

This may be the diagram you are looking for. This is my crude ascii art version of the standard forward/reverse contactor setup. The top 2 rows are the pair of double throw contactors that generally handle it. If you look at the diagram (and manage to understand it ) you will see that if both contactors are off the controller (c) is connected to the field (s) but the field is not connected to the armature (a) so there is no motor circuit. If both contactors are turned on the controller is not connected to the motor at all by the contactors. If one contactor is on and the other off then controller power goes through the field and back to the other contactor where it directed to the armature. It goes through the armature and back to the controller completing the motor circuit. The direction the power goes through the field is opposite depending on which contactor is on. That allows for forward and reverse operation and the contactor system is fail-safe because both on and both off create an open circuit that leaves the motor off.


```
___________ c
   _ / ______ \_   
  |      |      |  
  | -----|----- |  
  | |    |    | |  
  --| s  |  s |--  
    |    |    |    
    |    |    |    
  a |----|  a |-- c
    |         |    
    -----------    
         ||
```


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

EVfun said:


> This may be the diagram you are looking for. This is my crude ascii art version of the standard forward/reverse contactor setup. The top 2 rows are the pair of double throw contactors that generally handle it. If you look at the diagram (and manage to understand it ) you will see that if both contactors are off the controller (c) is connected to the field (s) but the field is not connected to the armature (a) so there is no motor circuit. If both contactors are turned on the controller is not connected to the motor at all by the contactors. If one contactor is on and the other off then controller power goes through the field and back to the other contactor where it directed to the armature. It goes through the armature and back to the controller completing the motor circuit. The direction the power goes through the field is opposite depending on which contactor is on. That allows for forward and reverse operation and the contactor system is fail-safe because both on and both off create an open circuit that leaves the motor off.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
THATS what I was trying to say!!

Thanx!


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## greif (Jun 26, 2010)

crazybry79 said:


> Gary,
> 
> Yes! You're about 20 minutes from me.
> 
> ...


 
sorry I can't help, I don't know much. I'm think to get my feet wet buy converting a riding mower to elec next year so with your tips I can look for motors/ batts etc. that will be getting my feet wet

thanks
gary


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Hey Crazy,

I will soon be in the same boat as you. Im just finishing up my motor and will then be moving on to my ev-100 controller. Ive been reading and have found wiring diagrams for 3 different models of this controller. Let me know if you would like to see them. My suggesion to you right now would be to bench test it like the forkenswift guy did with his ev-1 controller.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/electric-car-conversion-project-forkenswift-33-22.html

He hooked it up to a 36 volt light instead of the motor so he didnt have to worry about testing when the motor wasnt under load. the pot box acted as a dimmer for the light.
Hopefully you figure it out so you can show me ha ha, but if not I would like to start working on a lamens diagram of how it should be wired. (The manufactures diagrams arent that strait forward for this application) Also, did you add a 15 amp fuse to the volts you added to the "T" terminals?

Cheers!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

HydronCollider said:


> Hey Crazy,
> 
> I will soon be in the same boat as you. Im just finishing up my motor and will then be moving on to my ev-100 controller. Ive been reading and have found wiring diagrams for 3 different models of this controller. Let me know if you would like to see them. My suggesion to you right now would be to bench test it like the forkenswift guy did with his ev-1 controller.
> 
> ...


 Thanx for following my little escapade! And welcome to the forum, BTW.

I have not abandoned my project, but it is on hold at the moment. The place I bought the electronics from has offered assistance over the phone to help me out. I am actually going to loasd it on a trailer or dolly one of these days and bring it to him, and see what he thinks the dillema is.

When I bought the forklift parts, the forklift wasn't working (he belived that the brake system was hung up) Im wondering if it wasn't actually a part of the controller wasn't messed up (I'm led to belive one of the RECs is not functioning properly....but I don't know yet.) I'm sure he didn't _intentionall_y sell me a bad part, there just may be a misdiagnosis, and heck, we ALL do that every once and awhile!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

< Blow the dust off this old thread >

Today, I was working near where I acuired the original forklift parts. I dropped in, searching for a new card, as I have reason to belive my card has been giving me ALLL this trouble. Brian, at Klink Equiptment, hooked me up with the WHOLE EV100 setup! 

So, came home tonight, dug project Gevo out of the weeds, and started to rip and tear....in the dark....in the misquitoes.

Installed the whole new EV100. Plugged everything in. Sounded like the same ordeal. BUT, working with MINIMAL tools, I came to find out that both my batteries (still set up for 24V for testing) together, were quite drained from sitting and being neglected for a year +/-. Threw a cheapo charger on one of the batteries for 15 minutes, plugged it back in....and the motor spins!! If the car is put in gear, it attempts to move it (I'm not expecting much, given the circumstances.....)

So, battery one is charging overtnight, then battery two should charge while I'm at work!

Then.....


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## greif (Jun 26, 2010)

what's the ev100? a controller?

thanks
gary 
kaukauna,wi


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

greif- yup its an olllddd forklift controller, very hard to deal with

crazybry- I got my car running with a 36 volt curtis golf cart controller, but i have no torque, I cant get uphill very well, so I started playing with my ev 100. I'm in the same position as you, except I hooked it up with out the contactors, Just the ev100, no contactor card at all. And I have the exact same issue as you. The controller buzzes (normal) and the motor really buzzes (not normal i think) When I crank the pot box the wheels spin (have the car jacked) but its very weak. I stopped the wheel with my hands. So either were missing something with the setup or ..... i dont know. maybee were missing a connection on the contactor card that should be sending a signal back to the controller? I was reading about the pmt driver but that should only kick in at 95% throttle. I havent looked at mine in a month but hope to start tinkering again soon.


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

IT GOES!!! IT RUNS!!!!

Here was my dillemma. The EV100 wiring diagram has no wiring for the lift itself.... On the "A" plug (furthert to the left looking at the card) there were several wires not hooked up (numbers 31, 32, and 30 I belive - not sure though). So I ran one to battery negative - then the motor reacted. I grounded a second wire (32 i think), and the motor reacted stronger, but the 1A bypass wouldn't drop out. So I grounded the third wire, and now ALL is fine. Took her up the road and everything!! Not impressive - probably 15MPH, but I SURE won't complain - running 24V right now! I'm amazed I moved at all!!!

Heres a video!!!
http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/crazybry79/1%20phils/?action=view&current=2011-08-21_12-12-45_280.mp4

Gary - Yes, the EV100 is an older controller. The Ev100 was introduced in 1986. In 89 they introduced the EV100LX/LXT and the EV100ZX/ZXT. All are very suitable for this application, but as you see, can be quite daunting.

HC- Im not sure where to start with your setup....I'm surely a novice when it comes to these, and without the integration of contactors, I'm unsure how the logic card will react to different inputs. I'm not sure if it needs the contactors or not. BUT, if you look at what my problem was, this may help ya! ALSO, check your pot box resistance. I belive its supposed to go from 5 Ohms to 0 ohms (no throttle to wide open throttle). The card will also put out voltage through thbe pot - 3.7V - 0 V (closed throttle to WOT). The pots are very sensitive to this I guess. All of the values can be found in the EV100 LX/LXT manual found online (theres also a link in one of my posts on here).

Hope this helps!!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Also I have some 2 or 4 AWG wires in my setup.....for anyone doing similar setups - GO BIGGER!!!!! Dont skimp. Mine get bloody hot! my 1/0 cables are ice cold though!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Hey crazy, Thanks for the help, I would like to do what you did to get yours working. Unfortunately I dont have the original wires for the card plugs. Can you tell me where 30,31,32 go in the "a" plug? heres a pic of the plug each terminal has a number from 1-6.
Thanks again


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Plug a, numbers 4,5, and 6 all went to battery negative. I just wired them to the negatove terminal to the far far lower left corner (NOT the sensor / taller one) , but the one that is bolted right to the main body.

Now mine, originaly had plug a, number 3 (wire 16) running to one of the 6 tb teminals (screw terminals). Right now it is disconected, and I have no clue where it went, but it seems to operate fine without it connected

Hope this helps!

Interested to know how this works out without contractors. Would be nice to save the space, but on the otherhand, I have already fallen in love with the 1A dropout contractor!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks, I'll give that a shot when I find some free time! The 1A contactor is the whole reason I want to use this controller, Since it gives the motor the full power of the batteries at 95% throttle. Im hoping it will solve some of my torque problems. If this dosent make it more powerful than I will have to start looking at the batteries.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Oh and congrats on getting the car working BTW!!! You must have the ev grin now!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

EPIC ev grin!! Its been waiting a year to come out!!

Im just glad to see these older units bring used got agood porpouse. I an by no means an expert with these....but ill gladly share what I know!


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

Hey crazy,

Do you have anything hooked up to the "B" plug on the card. If so what, and where does it go? I was reading the manual and it looks like "B5" runs the 1A contactor. Thanks!!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

I will have to look tonight. I belive most of the b plug is used...not certain though.

Had a crisis this am... My 2mpg suburban would not start, and I needed to get to work.....

7 miles. 24v. 23 mph on the level. 27 downhill. Not impressive uphill...but she made it!! Even had juice to spare to show off in the parking lot!


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

Ordered an lx handset to set my card for higher voltage today.


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## HydronCollider (Nov 15, 2010)

I hope you got a good deal, they cost a few hundred on ebay


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

.... Yup...$70


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

BUNCH of updates!

First off, my LX handset came in. YES, you do need to "set"the card for the correct voltage. Handset works great, and ALL of the functions are programable / easy to modify. Like, say if I want the controller to take 1/10th of a second to go to full power, you can. OR, if you want it to take 45 seconds (even though you are full-on the go pedal), it will. You may set maximum amps, you can set it to cut amps back if it draws too much, all sorts of wonderful fun things. 

Got the Gevo set to 48V (cause thats how many batteries I have on hand...  )and HOLY CHIT, what a difference. I did NOT get a readiung off the GPS, but if I had to make an HONEST guess, I would gaurentee that I had it up to 30MPH, and I would feel quite safe saying 35MPH. I'd _like _to say 40......but it's not verified, and I won't go there just yet.

Regen works (at least as far as I can tell). I was really looking forward to having this, but as of right now (the playing stage) I don't even use it. It's kind of a weird set up (you need to tell the controller to reverse directions), I have a toggle switch that reverses the controller direction, and it justr feels completely un-natural. For right now, it got put on the whatever list.

And the BIG one.... Got the new charger. In the end, I plan on running 72V. After looking at all of the charger options I had, I decided this would be ALOT easier, plus alot more cost effective. I _wanted_ this charger in 220VAC, but that would have made oportunity charging near impossible.


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## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Just curious as I have an internal splined pump motor. What did you do about your motor coupler? Got an pics?

Thanks


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## crazybry79 (Jun 15, 2010)

I used an internal spline motor. I also saved the shaft from the pump it was on, so I used the shaft welded to a piece of the clutch to make a coupler. Quite simple, as long as you have the original shaft.


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## nsk1 (Jul 11, 2012)

i found this via youtube. i was hoping to give this a try without having massive batteries hiding everywhere. this is what i needed to see.


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## Mike Leach (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey Crazy, I talked to you once before about the coupler. I have the car now 95% finished and am having the same problems you had. I got the car moving at 48volts but it wont go up a 5 degree slope. The controller trips out in the third stage of throttle. I've read through all your posts and videos and I think I have it figured out. I've learned more from your posts then I ever could of figured out trying to read the schematics. I got some great ideas from you as well. I am using the ev100 controller but the motor has a 13 inch diameter. I put it in an 85 Fiero GT. I should be able to do wheelies when it's finished. 

Thanks for all your help. I appreciate all your videos and information on here, it sure makes things much easier.

One thing I was going to do for the regenerative braking is hook the regen up to the brake lights so when I hit the brakes, it should go into regen and also give me some engine brake. It should work as long as I don't try a brake burn.


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