# [EVDL] EV Safety - smoke detectors?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Has anyone built smoke detectors into their EV? If one is careful and
properly fuses all the circuits things should generally fine. (I also
noticed a good idea in a post to have the charger on a timer in case the
first stage charging voltage is not achieved) However, it appears to
me that the "belt and suspenders" approach might be a good one
considering the possible consequences.

In addition to the audible alarm, can the smoke detector be wired to
relays to cut all power to and inside the EV? Some detectors have a
communication wire to other detectors. Can this easily be used?

Also it appears that some CO detectors can be fooled by the gases
released when charging. Is this true for smoke detectors? (There are
two types. ion detectors and particle detectors, right?)

If anyone has done this, it would be appreciated if you let me know what
brand/model of the detector you used.

Thanks.

Nathan.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Nathan,

It seems that no one has answered your post about smoke detector
usage in EVs. Same experience I remember having when I posted
the ? several years ago. I don't think I got a single reply, and
since you didn't for your post of a day or two ago, it makes me
wonder what people have against discussing the whys and
wherefores of mounting and hooking up a smoke detector in your
EV. Maybe it is totally unsexy.

I remember asking at a EAA - San Francisco North Bay Chapter
meeting back before I set up my EV in 1994, (so probably 1993)
what to do about the possibility of having a fire while charging
down in the carport. I got one stare from a regular member
(chapter officer) of the meeting trying to wave my question down,
and silence from everyone else. The speaker at the meeting, who
is a list member to this day, and occasionally posts, answered my
question with a comparison to running a refrigerator untended at
home hour after hour - you don't really worry about it, it's a
rare event. But it does happen, and I'm thinking EV-1
charge-port fire(s) as the most public example, and we had one
GEM product (I think it was) zorch a building down in Golden Gate
Park. And there was the actress who had a fire in her GEM years
ago. So untended, high power, can cause a fire. So can filling
your ICE's gas tank, but it will likely be right in front of you,
in the short time it takes to happen.

My blood pressure would be a point or two lower while my car was
charging at night (and I'm snoozing) if I had some way of being
notified a smoke event was occurring in my car. I've never had a
smoke event, except for that memorable experience when I was a
newbie EV'er and I had my K&W BC-20 cord-end melter charger
cranked up at a fellow EV'er's place, and I pulled the cord from
the car inlet plug and smoke came pouring out of the extension
cord end. It was rather amusing under later "analysis" how my EV
friend dove for the other end of the cord on the garage floor and
applied a very quick disconnect. That's the only smoke event in
15 years of EV-ing. I keep my charger (no longer a BC-20)
throttled back, and I'm always using my senses, looking for signs
of heat stress, something not sounding right, or strange odors.
I'll usually go back down to the carport for a "sanity" check 15
or more minutes after the charger's timer has turned things on,
before I turn in for the night. But it only takes a few seconds
to have a problem. So I did buy years ago a regular smoke
detector with the intention of dissecting it and seeing if I
could make the speaker wires drive a relay in some fashion. If
there are speaker wires, or is it some other means of making
noise? If smoke is detected, have the normally closed relay pop
open and stay open, shutting off power to the charger. But
unfortunately, that's another shelved project at too low a
priority. I also started tuning into other types of gases that
can trigger these alarms (as discussed in another current
thread), so it obviously was going to become a more complicated
endeavor.

My thinking now is that I will not only have the charger shut
down, but since I'm working on communications (RS232-bluetooth),
I will also have an alert occur up in my apt. Hopefully, I'll
get there before too very long...

Smoke-free, knock-on-wood,
Chuck

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Stowe" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:43 AM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Safety - smoke detectors?


> Has anyone built smoke detectors into their EV? If one is
careful and
> properly fuses all the circuits things should generally fine.
(I also
> noticed a good idea in a post to have the charger on a timer in
case the
> first stage charging voltage is not achieved) However, it
appears to
> me that the "belt and suspenders" approach might be a good one
> considering the possible consequences.
>
> In addition to the audible alarm, can the smoke detector be
wired to
> relays to cut all power to and inside the EV? Some detectors
have a
> communication wire to other detectors. Can this easily be
used?
>
> Also it appears that some CO detectors can be fooled by the
gases
> released when charging. Is this true for smoke detectors?
(There are
> two types. ion detectors and particle detectors, right?)
>
> If anyone has done this, it would be appreciated if you let me
know what
> brand/model of the detector you used.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Nathan.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Stowe" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] EV Safety - smoke detectors?
-----------------------------


Hi,

I would certainly consider putting a smoke alarm in your EV - at least for
the first few months until everything has proven reliable. There are units
available which must have some form of switched outputs because they are
designed to daisy-chain to other smoke alarms in other parts of the same
building (I have such a system in my house:- one downstairs, one upstairs
and one in my detached garage, all interconnected & with built-in backup
batteries) but these are mains powered. 

I'm sure I have also seen wireless ones, which might be the easiest route to
go as you could put the sounder where you wanted (within reason). But my
plan is to wire the smoke alarm in my EV to the always-on carputer which
will have a mobile phone connection and will send regular (every 12 hours or
whatever) systems updates - as well as any special alerts - by text message
to my mobile phone (home phone, friends, neighbours, work) as necessary.
It'll also allow internet access 'on the move' as well but that's another
story.

>From what I've heard of late, I'm thinking there are at least two EV'ers out
there who, no doubt, dearly wish they'd had a good smoke alarm system
installed (sorry, guys)!

Regards, Martin Winlow, Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I can't say why nobody answered your question, but I agree that safety is 
usually somewhere down the list for most EV hobbyists. Not off it, mind 
you, just further down than, say, getting rid of brake drag and implementing 
a good BMS. There are lots of things to do when you're building an EV.

A thought : modern building codes require that home smoke detectors be 
networked. That way, if one in the cellar picks up a hint of fire, the one 
in the living room, the one in the upstairs hall, and all the others start 
making noise too. This is a huge improvement over the old days.

I haven't installed any of these (yet), but I understand that the net is 
very simple. I seem to recall reading that most electricians just wire them 
with 14-3 or 12-3 cable, and use the red wire for the intertie signal. I 
wonder if one of these networked devices could just be connected to the 
detectors in your house through an extra wire in the charging connector. 

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" an "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I am thinking that having a smoke detector in your car to monitor for fumes
is much like having a smoke detector in your garage. It's a great idea if
you are nearby to hear/ monitor it. It serves no purpose if you are not
aware that it is going off. Same goes for charging your batteries
unattended, you may never know for sure what went wrong if you were not
present to witness the event. I other words, if you are present and aware,
then you wound in all likelihood notice smoke or vapors as the present
themselves. I certainly have both during charging and during 3 battery
events while driving.
'Nuff said.-Thos



> Chuck Hursch <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Nathan,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > I haven't installed any of these (yet), but I understand that the net is
> > very simple. I seem to recall reading that most electricians just wire them
> ...


----------

