# Real test report of 48V100AH battery pack from Hipower



## PhaseShift (Oct 12, 2009)

Kevin,
Who performed the testing in ShangHai? Do they have up to date CNAL traceable calibrations on the equipment and can they share the raw data with the forum?

I ask because you are setting yourself up here to have a lot of questions as to the legitimacy and accuracy of the report for obvious reasons. Your company provided the product, your company paid for the testing to be done and you are providing the report. Frankly, this is coming in on top of some rather questionable data from other threads which is not helping your case. Adding even more data provided by a company in ShangHai that nobody on this forum has heard of simply is not going to convince a lot of people. 

If I may offer some advice- this comes from someone who grew up in the USA, but has lived in Asia for 15 years – 11 of that in Shenzhen-- Send 2 or 3 of your more popular batteries to a third party in the USA or Europe. One that has the reputation, the equipment and the trust of the forum and ask them to test the batteries for you and to transparently provide the raw test data to the forum and others. If you think that is too expensive or not necessary or that the people must accept your data, then you are further painting yourself into a corner by demonstrating your unwillingness to respond positively to sensible and reasonable requests from your potential customers. You are not going to force them to believe you- it does not work that way in most of the world and certainly not in the middle kingdom- we both know that. But unlike in China, just saying something is made by some big company with a cool sounding name carries no weight outside of China and maybe Taiwan. 

Frankly, your attitude towards people is a bit threatening and rude; you seem to think you automatically have some authority just because you work for a company that makes batteries. It just does not work that way. Additionally, you seem to think that everyone is stupid which is not the case; a lot of people on these forums are well educated, have a lot of experience in related fields and frankly, know a lot more about data interpretation and correlation that you have demonstrated. 

Here is a good exercise for you- Have one of your engineers post a response, with data to the post I made related to resistance measurements and standards for setting up QA metrics. Your QA people should be able to answer this in a matter of minutes if they are doing a good job of tracking critical path variables in your OQC process and if you are manufacturing the LiFePO4 cells and units, your production staff should have SPC data which correlates to the results you see in your OQC results. 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41386 

I am new to this forum as well and in general, I observe, consider, ask and think about how to make my approach to the others on the forum as friendly and group oriented as I can. I may be nobody on here, but you are nobody who came across as a jerk with very questionable data on a very serious subject. My friendly but frank advice is to change your approach, get factual info out and if your product does not test as good, do not blame the test, the conditions, mother goose or sun spots. Your response should be _“OK, we need to take a look at this and see how to improve our product…..”._ That is not going to guarantee you customers, but I can assure you, your competitors in the battery business are just as communication and attitude challenged as you are, so there may be your competitive advantage- if you are clever enough to capitalize on it. 

*Disclaimer to the forum-* I have nothing to do with Hipower, Kevin, his GM or anyone related to them or any battery company, distribution agent or anything like that. I am giving this advice to Kevin simply because I know the vibe in China and I can see that he is simply approaching this in the way that he –thinks- is the right way to go with no real concept of a more appropriate approach. He is floundering and I can’t stand to see this happen without giving him some straight advice on his approach. Hope this is helpful; fingers crossed. 

Phase


----------



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Hello, Phaseshift, I am glad to see your words because I feeling you really helping me to right ways. I got too many negative words and nearly get tired.

I try to post testing data on, like 48V100AH battery pack report,
I send 4 pcs of 200Ah cells to dimitri, one of senior member in this forum, but because of sea transport so need some time waiting.
I would best like the third part organization testing, please suggest some some detail info, it would be better suit for forum and our customer.

I apologize again, for my words are not so well, and maybe poor English, I try to learn better suit forum, I insist in here try to got some Hipower battery feedback info, but please do attack me.

May I have your Email? I could send you original EXCEL to you, about 25M,
through it haven't include many parameter as you say, but may have some usage. maybe you could contract me [email protected]


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

highpowerkevin,

Phaseshift has stated my own feelings much better then I can. 

I'm glad to see this change in attitude. Sending the batteries to dimitri for independant testing was a wise move.

Posting your own test results was another wise move. We now have something to compare our own test results against. Every serious battery manufacturer over here has this kind of information readily available for verification.

Understand this, you may be totally honest and truthful with what you have been telling us, but you have made some of the nasty mistakes in communications with members of this board that other possible dishonest sales people have made. This may be a cultural or language thing or a Chinese business model. It just doesn't work over here. 

Shouting a lie loudly and continuously may make it the truth in politics. But it doesn't work in engineering.

People who have been burnt once will be double cautious.

Right now you have begun to separate yourself and HiPower from those questionable organizations. 

TS and SE seem to have made that jump to the good side and sell a lot of batteries here. I hope you do the same.

In my personal opinion, a company like yours or TS or SE NEEDS to bring a presence here with a national organization, Warehousing and stock available for delivery.

Good luck.



hipowerkevin said:


> Hello, Phaseshift, I am glad to see your words because I feeling you really helping me to right ways. I got too many negative words and nearly get tired.
> 
> I try to post testing data on, like 48V100AH battery pack report,
> I send 4 pcs of 200Ah cells to dimitri, one of senior member in this forum, but because of sea transport so need some time waiting.
> ...


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

Kevin,
EV Components is working with Manzanita Micro on testing many of these cells from China. 

We are testing Sky Energy (CALB), ThunderSky and Headway right now.
We will be providing our 3rd party review of all of these cells.

If you would like to send us 4 pcs of your 100 AH cells, we will provide a comparison of all China Hipower, ThunderSky and Sky Energy.

Thanks,
James


----------



## PhaseShift (Oct 12, 2009)

hipowerkevin said:


> Hello, Phaseshift, I am glad to see your words because I feeling you really helping me to right ways. I got too many negative words and nearly get tired.


You are welcome and I sincerely hope this is helpful not only to you, but others on the forum. 



hipowerkevin said:


> I apologize again, for my words are not so well, and maybe poor English, I try to learn better suit forum, I insist in here try to got some Hipower battery feedback info, but please do attack me.


Mei wenti. Wo de zhong ren hen bu hao. 
(No problem, my Chinese is very bad)



hipowerkevin said:


> May I have your Email? I could send you original EXCEL to you, about 25M,
> through it haven't include many parameter as you say, but may have some usage. maybe you could contract me [email protected]


Sorry, but I have to decline, I am not taking sides here and do not want to appear to be. Additionally, I don't want a 25MB e-mail coming to me and suggest this is a common concept-_ "Don't send me an e-mail bigger than about 5MB"_ you know how upset your boss gets when someone jams up his e-mail account with a huge e-mail? Yeah, that is the same all over the world and it is something that you really should avoid. 

My suggestion- Post the data to an FTP site and publish the tested, working link on the forum for _everyone_ to download and review. 

It appears to me that you understood my intentions of my post and have taken the first step to respond in a positive way. I encourage you to continue that and understand that you can’t patch up everything in one day. As they say in Chinese “_it is easy to say, but difficult to do_”. That applies perfectly here. 

Best of luck to you.

PS


----------



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

PhaseShift said:


> My suggestion- Post the data to an FTP site and publish the tested, working link on the forum for _everyone_ to download and review.


I uploaded the original data XLS to website, as zipped format, could be download as following link,
http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B4vun5WB-ICkZDAwOWJlOWMtYmQ3Mi00Mzc3LWJiYzgtOWZlNzQ1MmZkYmYz&hl=en​https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B4vun5WB-ICkZTI5NDQ0NDMtZGY4NS00NDdlLWIwNzAtNmZiNjJhMGQ3OTU4&hl=en


----------



## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

Looks like about 4.2MB as a ZIP file. For anyone that prefers an even smaller file, you can use 7zip on it to make it about 1.4MB for easier emailing/etc.
________
Vaporizer volcano


----------



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

I would try to find some of 3rd-party nonprofit organization, which is skillful in testing LifePO4 batteries, then send sample for testing and get report, it would be most useful for company purchase decision and end customer like people in forum, anybody who could offer info I would be very grateful. as we a LifePO4 battery seller, many of purchaser would trust 3rd-party better than ourselves, 


Our second step program is to contract more distributors in local USA, we have some of then but seems EV component have great remark in this forum, this cooperation needs to take times, negotiate and details would be done between General sales Manager, I would promot it and hope finally benefits the people in forum.

However some of people if try to test Hipower would be glad to, anyway myself would like to learn some of knowage and info are much better.


----------



## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

*Semi-OT: Re: Real test report of 48V100AH battery...*

Thank you thank you thank you. Constructive criticism, reasoned responses, no flame war. I wish more forums could be like this! Thanks.


----------



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> I would try to find some of 3rd-party nonprofit organization, which is skillful in testing LifePO4 batteries, then send sample for testing and get report, it would be most useful for company purchase decision and end customer like people in forum, anybody who could offer info I would be very grateful.


Hi kevin,

I may be able to conduct tests of this nature. I have been doing this on some Kokam cells recently. See http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/lithium-battery-monitor-39708p2.html posts #16 - 20. I would need enough cells to make a 48 volt pack, 16 of your cells sounds about right. I do not work for nor am compensated by any battery maker or seller. I just test them and tell it like I see it. Contact me if you are serious.

Regards,

major


----------



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

I would like the 3-rd party organization, could offer detail report,
The organization would be trusted by famous company like BMW, E-car.
when we negotiage with such company we could offer test report,
and they will interest on report as reference. then they take sample from us and things would go on, have anybody know about those 3-rd party organization?

Also thanks for Major, I would contract with him later, I think it would be benifit and useful.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You could try Exponent Inc. http://www.exponent.com/
They have done electronics testing for Toyota recently and battery testing for Ecolocap, (their CNT and Lithium-X cells).


----------



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> You could try Exponent Inc. http://www.exponent.com/
> They have done electronics testing for Toyota recently and battery testing for Ecolocap, (their CNT and Lithium-X cells).


Thanks for your kind info, it is much useful.


----------

