# Classic netgain controller upgrade/hack



## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I've had this controller for a while in my attic and I've just now toyed with the idea of using it again in a race project but I contacted netgain and they said they no longer service these controllers. Is there anyway to hack the firmware for higher voltage and amperage because the upgrades are not hardware but software.


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## RadioChris123 (Feb 23, 2016)

I wish there was a way to hack it. I have the same controller but I think mine lost the programming. I tried to read the pic micro with a pickit3 but it was blank. I tried to contact Netgain Controls multiple times, but got no response. Do you have the one with 10 capacitors or one big black one?


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I have the big black capacitor one. Blank? How can that be? Does your controller still work?


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## RadioChris123 (Feb 23, 2016)

No, it doesn't work. I bought it used and never saw it working. It was cheep so I'm not complaining. My only complaint is the lack of support for these controllers from the oem. 
When reading the pic micro controller, all I get are zeros. I'm going to try to make my own code but that requires reverse engineering the whole thing. idk if I have time for that.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

So if your controller output anything other than zeros what would you do?


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

RadioChris123 said:


> No, it doesn't work. I bought it used and never saw it working. It was cheep so I'm not complaining. My only complaint is the lack of support for these controllers from the oem.
> When reading the pic micro controller, all I get are zeros. I'm going to try to make my own code but that requires reverse engineering the whole thing. idk if I have time for that.


You will get all zeros read out from the controller because the chip is locked. You can't read the firmware out of it. The proper test is whether it is actually outputting CAN or not and can talk to the dash display.

Just for full disclosure, I am not affiliated directly with Netgain but I do know them and I once worked with Ryan (the guy who built those controllers) to try to crack the firmware protections. I wasn't given any insider info to do this because no one else would have any. I'm pretty sure you won't be unlocking any upgrades for free or messing with the firmware, it seems reasonably secure. But, I also doubt that the controller doesn't have firmware on it.

Come to think of it, you didn't mention having a dash display. The netgain controllers I saw all needed a dash display to show their status and to configure them. If you don't have that then you're probably going to have a bad time.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Either netgain is going to have to step up or we will have to find a way in. Could some sort of brute force work?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I would suggest getting the chips technical data package to see if the lock is not hardware based.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Hey RadioChris do you know the chip number?


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## RadioChris123 (Feb 23, 2016)

There are three:
PIC18F4685
PIC16F88
PIC16F818


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## RadioChris123 (Feb 23, 2016)

CKidder said:


> You will get all zeros read out from the controller because the chip is locked. You can't read the firmware out of it. The proper test is whether it is actually outputting CAN or not and can talk to the dash display.
> 
> Just for full disclosure, I am not affiliated directly with Netgain but I do know them and I once worked with Ryan (the guy who built those controllers) to try to crack the firmware protections. I wasn't given any insider info to do this because no one else would have any. I'm pretty sure you won't be unlocking any upgrades for free or messing with the firmware, it seems reasonably secure. But, I also doubt that the controller doesn't have firmware on it.
> 
> Come to think of it, you didn't mention having a dash display. The netgain controllers I saw all needed a dash display to show their status and to configure them. If you don't have that then you're probably going to have a bad time.



Thanks for the info CKidder. I do have a controller. Maybe I should cut my losses and buy a new one. Its hard to justify buying a Netgain Controls one because the lack of support for older devices. I wish I could have a service manual or schematic. 

Do you have a manual and/or the error codes for the old controller? The codes are four digits.
for example:
4122
4111
4132
3112
3113
3111


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## Clipper (Jan 30, 2011)

Contact Ryan Bohm, his email address is [email protected]

He designed the controller and he can occasionally be coaxed to repair one. 
He takes a while, though, over two months in my case, but mine turned out to be a minor, inexpensive repair.

He is no longer with NetGain, I read that he was head of the power electronics lab at Utah State University . 

The last time I emailed him was May 2016... don’t know if that email is still good or not.


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## RadioChris123 (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks Clipper. I looked him up on linked-in. He's the "Power Electronics Laboratory Manager" at Utah State University.

I think I'll give the repair a go myself. I've been in electronics repair for about 17 years so I know (i think) I can do it. It will just take a long time with out a schematic. I think I'll start another thread about the repair.


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## loopylupine (Jan 1, 2014)

Does anyone know where I could find an interface module for the netgain classic? Barring that, maybe someone knows how to fix them? I have one but it needs a couple parts on the board repaired/replaced and my soldering skills don't go down to that scale. Or... does anyone know how to clear errors without the module? The instructions in the manual are not working. I get solid red light, no flashing codes.
Thanks


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