# Need Help with a Fan



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> I bought a "Rebuilt" 6.7 inch Prestolight motor off eBay that all in all appears to be a good value with the exception of one thing. There is no cooling fan.
> I assume that it was damaged when the motor was taken down and not replaced because of cost.
> 
> Can these fans be purchesed, if so where would I look.
> ...


That would be Prestolite (sp). For older Prestolite motors of the 6.6 inch diameter, they used the PU-647x fan. x represents a alphabet letter (A, B, C, etc) which would dictate the outer and bore diameters machined on the PU-647 aluminum die cast fan. I am uncertain which one you need. Although service replacement fans should be available. Your motor needs to have the vents in the DEH and knurl on the shaft to take this fan. Depending on the exact motor you have, it may have used an external fan. Some used a customer mounted external fan on the CE. Some, no fan at all.

Regards,

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> That would be Prestolite (sp). For older Prestolite motors of the 6.6 inch diameter, they used the PU-647x fan. x represents a alphabet letter (A, B, C, etc) which would dictate the outer and bore diameters machined on the PU-647 aluminum die cast fan. I am uncertain which one you need. Although service replacement fans should be available. Your motor needs to have the vents in the DEH and knurl on the shaft to take this fan. Depending on the exact motor you have, it may have used an external fan. Some used a customer mounted external fan on the CE. Some, no fan at all.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> major


major,

Thank you very much for the information. 

One of the things I gleaned from your response is that the motor shaft needs to have a knurl to have a fan installed. Should I be able to see that knurl through the vent holes in the DEH without disassembling the motor? 

I can and will take pictures of the motor and of the data sticker the rebuilder put on it and it apperas to have a Prestolite number on it.

I had some uniquly bad days and couldn't get back to work on the electric conversionss yesterday and today

Would you beleive that a 2 year old Briggs V twin and a 10 year Kohler V twin would each lose 1 cylinder on two consecutive days. The oppisite cylinder, right on one and left on the other. Both for no known reason as both had everything right up to snuff.

And people wonder why I'm converting an old Cub Cadet to batteries.

If I get enough information for you would you try to steer me in the right direction to find a fan for if it in fact originally had one.?


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> major,
> 
> Thank you very much for the information.
> 
> ...


major,

Peeking through the DE vents I can see the shaft and it does not appear to have any knurling on the part I can see. I assume that, by knurling you mean that raised metal like would be pressed into a shaft on a lathe with a knurling wheel tool.

Attached is a photo of the data tag that the rebuilder attached.

I'm making a cooling air band that will use about 1/2 to 3/5 of the filtered air from a 400 cfm boat bilge blower (very noisy). Will that be enough cooling air? I will be applying +350 amps to the motor for about 15 - 20 seconds. The remaining air goes to the controller and heat sink.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> major,
> 
> Peeking through the DE vents I can see the shaft and it does not appear to have any knurling on the part I can see. I assume that, by knurling you mean that raised metal like would be pressed into a shaft on a lathe with a knurling wheel tool.
> 
> Attached is a photo of the data tag that the rebuilder attached.


Hey Jim,

Yep, knurling. You should be able to eyeball it. If it is not there, then there was probably never a fan in it and no room for one. It is a MEA type motor, 37 slot armature. Series wound. Different numbers in the 4000 series after the MEA were used for different mechanical designs using the same MEA electrical design. It was made in traction and pump drive versions. I don't remember what the MEA-4031 was. But that type of motor was a solid design. Used on forklifts for like 40 years. I guess I'd forgetabout installing an internal fan. The external blower will do you better anyway. It can continue to blow after the 20 second run and the motor is at standstill. I don't know a CFM number to throw at ya. More the better. Seen a lot of guys just use automotive heater/air cond blowers. I think that is about right.

Regards,

major


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> Hey Jim,
> 
> Yep, knurling. You should be able to eyeball it. If it is not there, then there was probably never a fan in it and no room for one.


Jim,

Saw a photo of the MEA motor in your other thread. Looks like the model which did not have the internal fan. It'd be a real bitch to install one. Go with the blower. And filter out all that dust 

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> Jim,
> 
> Saw a photo of the MEA motor in your other thread. Looks like the model which did not have the internal fan. It'd be a real bitch to install one. Go with the blower. And filter out all that dust
> 
> major


major,

Thank you for taking the time to help me out. 

Your comments about the motor being a strong design is comforting. I plan to used this tractor pretty hard for both pulling for general utility around the farm. I have an old Bolens shaft drive deck I plan to put motor and batteries on to make a front mount mower for this converted Cub.

It's a pleasure to do business with you. If I can help you in any way feel free to contct me.

By the way I bought the air filter for the cooling blower today, Finally found one with a 4 inch outlet. 

Both Ice tractors tossed a pushrod. The Briggs just needed a reinstall the Kolher needed a head removal to free up a stuck valve. A wasps nest was blocking air flow and cooked the oil into varnish. I had to pound the valve out with a hammer. Washed everything down with carb cleaner put in new gaskets and push rod. Runs like new.

I wonder what the odds are that two different tractors 10 years apart with different engines would toss a push rod within one day.

You have a great day and thanks again.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> If I can help you in any way feel free to contct me.
> 
> By the way I bought the air filter for the cooling blower today, Finally found one with a 4 inch outlet.


Jim,

I'd like to see what that blower and filter look like. May have a need for one myself.

Are you any relation to Johndear?  There a lot of those down here in Wood Co. Ag country.

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> Jim,
> 
> I'd like to see what that blower and filter look like. May have a need for one myself.
> 
> ...


major

They say "Nothing runs like a Deere". I say except a Jim Dear. (my wife came up with that). See image Below.

The blower came fron eBay. It is our inch 420 cfm. The Filter is from Auto Zone. Around $20.00. It's washable and with supplied adapters will fit 3, 3.5 and 4 inch ducts.

Have a great day


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> They say "Nothing runs like a Deere". I say except a Jim Dear.


Thanks, Jim.

From Pull Town, Bowling Green, OH.

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> Thanks, Jim.
> 
> From Pull Town, Bowling Green, OH.
> 
> major


Major,

Been through there going to Columbus for visits to the the wifes family, pulling is popular there.

And anyone else willing to comment.

I'm re-opening this thread because I need one more bit of info on this motor. I have it in and running on 48 volts and have the tachometer and runaway shut off system we made up working. 

What would be your best informed guess on a safe DO NOT EXCEED shut down RPM. 

Since this is a generic off the shelf "rebuilt" motor, I was thinking of 4500 rpm. I don't want to loose any safely useable RPM, but even more I don't want to loose the motor.

I'm at the point of tear down to finsh welds, grind off uglies, sand and prime. See attached pictures. The major stuff is done and I want to try a banzi to get it back together by Saturday night. I want to do first hook this Sunday if I can.

Any help would be accepted.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> What would be your best informed guess on a safe DO NOT EXCEED shut down RPM.
> 
> Since this is a generic off the shelf "rebuilt" motor, I was thinking of 4500 rpm. I don't want to loose any safely useable RPM, but even more I don't want to loose the motor.


Hi Jim,

The old Prestolite 6.6 inch motor should not distort the comm at 6000 RPM. But I see no reason to allow it to get there. I'd set it to 5000 RPM max. At 48 volts and those RPM, it isn't going to give you much torque anyway. 

Good luck and if you run the nationals in Bowling Green, be sure to let me know. I used to attend years back, but haven't lately. Love to see you full pull against some gassers.

Regards,

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> The old Prestolite 6.6 inch motor should not distort the comm at 6000 RPM. But I see no reason to allow it to get there. I'd set it to 5000 RPM max. At 48 volts and those RPM, it isn't going to give you much torque anyway.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the advice.

The shutdown RPM is to prevent motor blow up whern parts break. I want it high enough so that I can get as much forward speed as possible when the sled weight is way back off the pan. If I set it too low and trip the relay that shuts me down.

I'm thinking I'm going to be running a higher gear and tire speeds like the modified with twice the torque as the gas tractors Hope so anyway.

It might take me a bit of time to get there as far as beating some of the high end gasoline national stuff. You know that for sure that if I start outpulling those guys there will be a "new rule" or a reintrupretation of an old rule real fast. Just in case, I've started writing a set rules for electrics electric conversions and superstocks and modifieds. There will be two of us to start out, so by loocal rules they have to make a class.

Even if they make us run exibition, if we put them "on the trailer" I'll be happy.

Thanks again


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> Thanks for the advice.


You're welcome, Jim.

A couple shots of my old eTractor. I know, pretty rough. Did it about 13 years ago. Runs strong. In need of batteries now.

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> You're welcome, Jim.
> 
> A couple shots of my old eTractor. I know, pretty rough. Did it about 13 years ago. Runs strong. In need of batteries now.
> 
> major


Your not claiming 13 years on the batteries (hem hem cough cough) are you?

Just goes to show you how much damage was done to rhe rest of the tractor by the noisy vibrating ICE.

That smooth electric lets em last forever. (Hey maybe I should write Ad copy rather then repair manuals)

Be well,


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> Your not claiming 13 years on the batteries (hem hem cough cough) are you?


 
I wish.  Maybe about 3 sets. I had some nice Hawkers which lasted over 8 years. Other sets were cheapos and did 2 or 3 years.

I don't think it will out pull you, but it can pull a ton of firewood uphill. Trick the Curtis and pop a wheelie. Lots of fun, and useful.

Maybe I can find a deal on batteries, and a can of paint, this summer.

Regards,

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> I
> Maybe I can find a deal on batteries, and a can of paint, this summer.
> 
> Regards,
> ...


Sounds Like a challange.

By the way that bit about Hwakers lasting 8 years is consoleing. I was given 50 used 5 and 6 year old 16ah hawkers that were in very bad shape. 

With a lot of desulfating, watering, cycleing and recharging I brought about half of them back to usefull, average about 85-90%, Man you should have seen my electric bill.

Anyway 18 batteries in a in 3p 4s configuration are going into the ultra light modified to run the D&D ES15A at 72 volts. Four more are going into Darin Gilberts Tractor he will be running 2p and 4s he has the motor and some hawkers out of his drag bike in his tractor.

My Garden tractor will have four 30ah High Rate high discharge UPS batteries running the Prestolight, Ditto they are old, used and free. Of the six I got i managed to salvege 4.

So battery wise we both have enough to max the alltrax 7245 in the tractors while maintaining at lead 9.5 to 10 voilts per battery under load. Four hundred amps at fourty or so volts in the little tractors and sixty or so volts in the ultralight, ought to kick butt.

Should be a fun summer


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



Jimdear2 said:


> My Garden tractor will have four 30ah High Rate high discharge UPS batteries


Not fond of UPS batteries. That is what you see in my eTractor photo. Bought new. But not too $. Second year, they were down. Bit the dust early in third year. Not that many cycles. Just hauling firewood around the yard and other occasional duty. I'd been better off springing for another set of Hawkers. Will probably go that way now. I do not think UPS batteries are "deep cycle". Might as well use cranking batteries.

major


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Need Help with a motor cooling Fan*



major said:


> Not fond of UPS batteries. That is what you see in my eTractor photo. Bought new. But not too $. Second year, they were down. Bit the dust early in third year. Not that many cycles. Just hauling firewood around the yard and other occasional duty. I'd been better off springing for another set of Hawkers. Will probably go that way now. I do not think UPS batteries are "deep cycle". Might as well use cranking batteries.
> 
> major


I was hoping that I could do double duty with the UPS batteries (they are AGMs by the way). The have a max discharge rating of 600 amps. and a 90 minute rating of 45 amps. I figured I should be able to pull like a bat out of He-- for 15 - 20 seconds and still be able to get an hour or so of usfull work around the farm. The mower deck will have it's own battery.

I did think about starting batteries originally for pulling only, but I needed small for under the tractor placement of two of them for pulling weight. The best was 2 of these AGMs layed horizontal. If I ever retire it to just farm work I'll back up to 36 volts (four deep cycle 8 volt) and move a few things around. Batteries are placed for pulling weight now 2 would go over the motor the controller will hide since I wont need to be constantly programing it and accessing tha data log. Wh that cub transaxle and build quality we could see this thing last into the next century.


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