# Too much choice - Nissan Leaf based EV conversion



## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

It may be a bit weird, but I find some of the up close images of circuits fascinating. The view between the IGBT driver boards and the IGBTs in the Leaf inverter is pretty cool.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

I don't know that this is the wrong order. If you know what you are trying to achieve, starting with the EV components might be the right way to go for you - you can pick a vehicle in which those components will work well, rather than trying to find components that will work for a particular vehicle and maybe not finding them.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi,

Nice to see a new UK guy on here, not too many of us. I'll look forward to following your build. 

I'm currently planning my next build and will possibly also use a Leaf as donor. I'm planning to actually use the whole of the Leaf systems as is in the new donor. 

Like yourself, I'm currently unsure what the car will actually be


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## foxr (Apr 16, 2015)

I want to convert some kind of convertible using this method(I was thinking a 1995 Saab since they are so cheap!., following...


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## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

Thanks for the comments, glad I'm not the only one going this route.

The idea of EV conversions in the UK doesn't seem to have quite the following yet of the US, but it does seem to be growing. No one seems to look at me too weird when I tell them what my latest project is Most of my mates want to be kept updated on progress which is cool.

So far I have taken the first steps in breaking down the leaf drive unit, and have started digging into the Power Delivery Module and Inverter


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Actually I think conversions are dwindling, if you'd been here 10 years ago you'd see what I mean  

My impression is that with most car related DIY projects, their is much less going on in the UK in general. Might be down to cost of properties with suitable workshop facilities these days, or just cultural, I don't know.

But we brave few continue...


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## foxr (Apr 16, 2015)

Not sure what you plan on using for your controller but here are a couple of ideas(coming from a guy that simply owns 2 factory EV's and has never built something made of copper lol) and last link is a guy putting down 300hp using the leaf motor.


https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/dilithium-vcu.html?sef_rewrite=1

https://www.instructables.com/id/200kW-AC-Motor-Controller-for-Electric-Car/

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=63982&start=400


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## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

Thanks! that's saved me some digging.

The current plan is to take an iterative approach to this and potentially try and running this a number of different ways with time. Too much time spent working in the software industry, even my car projects are now agile.

First phase will be to see if I can at least get it to turn over by spoofing the CAN messages that the inverter needs to receive. Not sure how successful that will be, but it has apparently been done before (I guess that is probably what the Thunderstruck VCU is doing.)

If that doesn't work (and to be honest, even if it does work) I'm looking to use one of the drop in boards that are out there at the moment. One looks like it's by the same guy as the second link you sent. The other is by a guy in Germany who runs openinverter.org. 

If the funds allow it at some stage, I may even try both, just so I can get my head around it and see what level of performance increase you can get still using the Leaf power stage. And also to see if there are any performance differences in the different approaches being taken. 

The final option would be to build the inverter from scratch, selecting the components that specifically for performance along the lines of the last link you sent.

I do like the look of the mid 90's Saab convertibles....it would make a cool EV and if it's cheap then you've no excuses


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Another UK conversion!

if you are anywhere near Malvern feel free to pop in and see some projects.

We are launching a powertrain controller for the leaf motor/inverter very soon.



Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

foxr said:


> I want to convert some kind of convertible using this method(I was thinking a 1995 Saab since they are so cheap!., following...


To me, in Canada, that's bizarre... no Saab was ever very common here, and it would probably be difficult to even find 1995 Saab on the road now, let alone a cheap one that isn't rusty. But go with what works for you, where you are! 



VW-McG said:


> I do like the look of the mid 90's Saab convertibles....it would make a cool EV and if it's cheap then you've no excuses


I had to look up what was available in what year - there's a huge difference between a Saab 900 up to 1993 (the last of the classic Saabs) and the "New Generation" Saab 900 of 1994-1998 (just another GM). Aside from appearance, they're very different mechanically, so it makes sense to pay attention to what you're getting before committing to one of these. I'm not saying which is better - just that they're different.


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## foxr (Apr 16, 2015)

Our plan involves moving to the LA area sometime later this year to be close to family and therefore sell our current 2014 spark ev. At some point pick up a wrecked spark and customize everything from it stock into the volvo so it would have the power and battery of the spark but we shall see. I'm grinning thinking about the 400ft/lbs in a classic convertible!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

foxr said:


> ... At some point pick up a wrecked spark and customize everything from it stock into the volvo so it would have the power and battery of the spark but we shall see.


This should be much like using Leaf components, but unfortunately without a bunch of other people having done a lot of work to understand the design and develop ways to use the components. Of course there are lots of detail differences

Leaf is configured to limit motor power to 80 kW; Spark EV is 110 kW
Leaf motor sits ahead of axle line; Spark EV motor sits on axle line (coaxial with axle shafts)
Leaf battery has no active cooling and optional electric heating; Spark EV battery has circulating liquid thermal management ('cold plate' in 2014; internal liquid flow - like Volt - starting 2015)
Leaf cells are LMO (24 kWh) or NMC (40 kWh); Spark EV cells are LFP (2014) or NMC-LMO (2015+)



foxr said:


> I'm grinning thinking about the 400ft/lbs in a classic convertible!


Chevrolet did a good marketing job with the Spark EV.  It doesn't matter in the slightest whether the motor puts out 400 lb-ft over 0-1500 rpm though a 4:1 drive ratio or 200 lb-ft over 0-3000 rpm through an 8:1 drive ratio - it's the same power and the same effect on the acceleration of the vehicle. The Spark motor just runs at higher torque and lower speed than most EVs... including the Bolt that replaced it. The Spark has good power for its size (more power than the the larger Leaf, for instance), so its performance is good, but that has nothing to do with the high motor torque.

The Spark EV bits should work in a reasonably light car, but don't expect some kind of performance miracle... unless you change the controller and exceed the factory current and power limits.


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

skooler said:


> We are launching a powertrain controller for the leaf motor/inverter very soon.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk



Mike,


This is very exciting! Where can more details be found when you launch?
Curious to know if this is similar to Paul's board or a whole new external controller.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

D a n n y^ said:


> Mike,
> 
> 
> This is very exciting! Where can more details be found when you launch?
> Curious to know if this is similar to Paul's board or a whole new external controller.


external controller. so leaf motor/inverter stack. simply feed it 12v and can. our controller then takes theottle, gear selector etc and simply works

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

more details will be on the website when ready. indra.co.uk

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

Here's a thread on using Leafs as donors:

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199847

It seems like I'll be heading down this road, and I'm more interested in buying kits than reverse engineering an OEM system. It's not yet clear to me what's out there, and what the features and limitations of each setup are.

Worst case scenario is transplanting everything needed from the Leaf, and that seems annoying, but not crazy...Of course, never having done any of it myself, my thoughts on the matter are of low value...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Having built an EV already and seen what's involved using separate components, I'd expect transferring the entirety of the minimum component set required to work, from a donor such as a Leaf or other production EV, to possibly be easier than building from separate components.


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

Do you have a build thread? I thought assembling standard components was pretty straightforward now (match specs; install wiring).


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

This is my build, it's old hat now (but works well  ) and evolved over several years starting with lead acid and upgrading to lithium. 

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58958

Off the shelf EV components to build a successful EV will cost much more than a complete system from a salvage production EV and seldom match the level of engineering sophistication. 

There are no "bolt in kits" as such, you're still looking at significant one off engineering for your choice of car whichever way you go


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## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

Paul, I really enjoyed your build thread, that's an impressive level of detail and finish you achieved. Something to aspire to. 

I'm still at the early stage of the build, taking apart the components has been really interesting, good to see the practical implementation of all the theory I have been studying through various sources over the last few years.


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## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

Time to post some updates and pictures of my own. 

I forgot to take pictures of the disassembly of the drive unit into the component parts, but I do have a video for anyone wanting to see that:

https://youtu.be/6wedfBY0axg

It was actually surprisingly easy, with only a handful of bolts holding each part to the next. The motor itself was really heavy, so it has stayed in the same place on the workbench since i lifted it up there


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## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

Next effort was to start digging into some of the components. I could claim that only opened the charger/PDM to get the cables detached as the connections were internal, but that would be a lie. I did it out of pure curiosity. 

https://youtu.be/vo2shfLokCI

Charger and heater/AC connections









Part of the normal charging circuit, there are lots of steps to this process









High voltage relays for the Chademo fast charger









Flip side of the module, appears to be a continuation of the charging circuit


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## mtrehy (Nov 10, 2019)

HI,

I'm in the UK and tentatively planning an EV conversion in the not too distant future. I've also been researching using a Leaf as a donor - where did you find yours - ebay seems to draw a bit of a blank with salvage Leaf's.

Do you anticipate any issues with registering the car - I've registered petrol/diesel swaps before but not sure whether EV would need IVA or anything?

Obviously with the Porsche being transaxle it makes sense to use the leaf gearbox - did you consider losing the leaf box and retaining the porsche box? My intended application is RWD so would plan to retain the original vehicle gearbox and adapt it to the leaf motor.

Any idea on te likely performance of a Leaf powered 900kg car with good aero?

Good luck with the build - I'll follow your progress with interest.


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## Timma001 (Jan 3, 2021)

VW-McG said:


> I'm sure I'm doing this the wrong way round, getting the EV components before having a car to put them in. The problem is that a lot of the cars that I really wanted in my teens and early twenties are now actually somewhat affordable (especially if they have a blown up engine  )
> 
> So on the car front, I don't know yet what I will be converting. I am going with the time honoured tradition of scouring ebay and gumtree looking for some forlorn unloved late 90's or early 00's treasure that jumps out at me from the screen. As soon as I find it, I'll let you all know.
> 
> ...


Hi Shane, i've got a specific UK EV conversion forum which would i'm sure benefit from your videos and images. I'm especially interested in conversions with Nissan Leaf parts as i see that being the most cost effective way to do an EV conversion. I'm also in a similar boot with regards to a car. I'm between a TVR Wedge and Mazda MK5 Mk1 atm.


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## Fightingtorque (Nov 30, 2020)

Timma001 said:


> Hi Shane, i've got a specific UK EV conversion forum which would i'm sure benefit from your videos and images. I'm especially interested in conversions with Nissan Leaf parts as i see that being the most cost effective way to do an EV conversion. I'm also in a similar boot with regards to a car. I'm between a TVR Wedge and Mazda MK5 Mk1 atm.


I'd be interested to know about your forum, I'm also in the UK. My car will be a Lotus Excel. 

I'm at the very early stages, got a donor car but nothing else yet. I have a few ideas for which way to go, the first job is to make a CAD model of the spaces in the car. But the weather needs to warm up, as the car is outside until at least one other project car can be reassembled and move out of the workshop!


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## Timma001 (Jan 3, 2021)

Super cool that you're doing a Lotus, i spotted an Excel the other day funnily enough and thought it would be a good car to do. Ive got a TVR Griffith 500 but i dont think i should convert that, so got an Mx5 atm, but thinking of selling that and have a TVR 350i ive found one that might work. I just don't know if everything will fit. 
The forum I started last month and got a few people on there so far just trying to promote atm to get more engagement, as i see it being a useful resource for UK converters especially if they aren't on Facebook.
Planning on locating some Nissan Leaf cars as i'm in the motor trade to sell the parts and give me the bits I need. What batteries and motors are you going for?
Www.chargeheads.co.uk 👍


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## VW-McG (Apr 4, 2018)

Timma001 said:


> Hi Shane, i've got a specific UK EV conversion forum which would i'm sure benefit from your videos and images. I'm especially interested in conversions with Nissan Leaf parts as i see that being the most cost effective way to do an EV conversion. I'm also in a similar boot with regards to a car. I'm between a TVR Wedge and Mazda MK5 Mk1 atm.


Hi Timma, great that you're starting a new forum, I'll have to take a look. 

I'm more than happy for my videos to be shared with such a community. I am doing them to try to get across, in as simple a manner as I can, information that I have had to trawl all over the internet to find and to try to present it in one place. 
My vote goes for the TVR


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## Timma001 (Jan 3, 2021)

VW-McG said:


> Hi Timma, great that you're starting a new forum, I'll have to take a look.
> 
> I'm more than happy for my videos to be shared with such a community. I am doing them to try to get across, in as simple a manner as I can, information that I have had to trawl all over the internet to find and to try to present it in one place.
> My vote goes for the TVR


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## Timma001 (Jan 3, 2021)

Yes i thought a TVR would be more unique plus its an 84 so not far off being tax exempt, although saying that one of the main shops is doing a TVR Cerbera Tesla which i cant wait to hear more about.
Www.chargeheads.co.uk 👍


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