# Gas Generator to Charge Batteries & Run Motor??



## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

tcr1016 said:


> I am looking at a Chevy Astro van to turn into an EV. My thought is to use batteries, then when they get low a Generator turns on to charge the batteries and run the motor. Similar to my Genny in my RV that runs my 2 A/C units and charges my batteries at the same time. Is this possible and what kind of volts or amps am I looking at to do this?? Similar to trains that use a HUGE genny to charge the electric wheels.


 An Astro van is fairly heavy. You'll probably need a couple hundred amps to get it going. I was just talking to a friend who bought a generator. It puts out about 400 amps- not too far from what you need. It weighs well over 1,000 lbs though. I'm pretty new to all this, but stick with the electric conversion idea and you will be doing great. The whole generator stuff you can worry about when you get your van on the road....


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## tcr1016 (Dec 23, 2008)

I wonder if say a motorcycle engine (street bike) made into a Genny would work?? Less weight but alot of HP. I would like to fit the Genny and Electric motor under the hood. The batteries under the subfloor inside the van.


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

See the perpetual motion sticky in the Tecnical Discussion thread.

Mike


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2009)

It is not a perpetual idea. Just using a generator to charge and run the motor. A doable thing but you won't have many batteries. I'd say find a nice little light car and convert it to all electric and see what it's all about. That van is heavy and would take quite a bit. Do you have the money to do a heavy vehicle? It won't be as cheap as you might think. Even with good used parts the price will add up quicker than you think. 

Pete


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

Since the gen motor will power the van as a hybrid at times, the motor in some (many? most?) states/countries will have to comply with DOT regs, which generator motors aren't set up for.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2009)

There are plenty of small compliant auto engines that could be used. The engine will need to be of reasonable size anyway because it will need to power a large enough generator to not only provide enough power for the electric motor to get you down the hwy but to produce enough to replenish the battery pack while doing so. A good little TDI 3 cylinder diesel or maybe one of those little 3 bangers from an older Geo or something like that. There are ways around all that stuff. It is a doable thing. The thing is, do you really want to do it!

Pete


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> I was just talking to a friend who bought a generator. It puts out about 400 amps- not too far from what you need. It weighs well over 1,000 lbs though.


I love when amps are mentioned without volts, how the heck can you figure out power output by just listing amps? Is it 400 amps at 12V ? 120V? 240V?

If you find an engine large enough to propel a van with generator and batteries, then you might as well use the engine to turn the wheels and remove the batteries, generator and electric motor, you'd shave so much weight off that it will make the van more efficient to run on gas alone.

IMHO, DIY series hybrid is simply not practical, you'd never get better efficiency using off the shelf parts. Look at GM, they still can't get Volt out due to issues with generator.


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## Walter_Lars (Jan 12, 2009)

big rig diesels are starting to add small diesel engines as powerplants to run AC or heating in the sleeper cab and to keep the big engine warm in cold weather some of these are putting out 3 or 4 KW in some cases 

they use the big engines block as they raditor pumping they coolant /antifreeze in the cooling jacket of the big engine 
they can recharge the trucks starting batts run a AC unit or two 

some trucks have a seperate AC system for the sleeper and on for the cab 
so as you see theses lil 3 bangers are powerful and there is a excemtion in federal law for pollution equipt since they not the drive motor just like the reefer trailor engines are exempt reefer motors generaly run about 2 Liter 
My point is if His auxualy power is not a drive engine but for rechargeing batts He should excempt from polution laws


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2009)

dimitri said:


> Look at GM, they still can't get Volt out due to issues with generator.


Ugh! Where did you come up with this? My generator I have should work just fine but I have to change from AC to DC. My amps are not super high but I should be able to have cruising speeds anyway. I can't go too fast with it because it is kinda small and not enough to power without some help from the pack. Larger output generators are out there and the one we use for our home is enough to power almost everything but yet small enough to fit in a vehicle. With an inverter that would be more than enough. Too big for the Ghia but not to big for many others. 

I highly doubt that GM is having trouble with the generator. Unless they came out and said it outright it is nothing but speculation.

Pete


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

gottdi said:


> I highly doubt that GM is having trouble with the generator. Unless they came out and said it outright it is nothing but speculation.
> Pete


Pete, I don't speculate, I read several articles on testing Volt and every one mentioned that test driver was not allowed to run out of battery because they didn't have the generator part working properly. I have not read a single article about Volt which talks about working generator and having a test driver run on pure generator.

I have a 6000 Watt genset which weighs 120 Lb and would not fit into a typical car, only a pickup or a minivan. Its brand new, efficient model, yadda yadda, and still it's not enough power to run my EV.

If you know of specific model of a compact generator which weighs less than 200 Lb and capable of 15-20kW, please post a link or a model number. I have not seen one which can fit in a car and have reasonable weight.

I have no doubt that when Volt hits dealerships it will have a working genset, but that date keeps moving away like a horizon line, I wonder why


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## _GonZo_ (Mar 23, 2009)

> If you know of specific model of a compact generator which weighs less than 200 Lb and capable of 15-20kW, please post a link or a model number. I have not seen one which can fit in a car and have reasonable weight.


Here is a good candidate: http://ecycle.com/docs/KubotaAPU.pdf


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## roflwaffle (Sep 9, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Ugh! Where did you come up with this? My generator I have should work just fine but I have to change from AC to DC. My amps are not super high but I should be able to have cruising speeds anyway. I can't go too fast with it because it is kinda small and not enough to power without some help from the pack. Larger output generators are out there and the one we use for our home is enough to power almost everything but yet small enough to fit in a vehicle. With an inverter that would be more than enough. Too big for the Ghia but not to big for many others.


 What kind of amps/volts are you putting out w/ it and how much does it weigh? Generally speaking, it's kinda pointless to yank a motor and trans only to replace it w/ a genset that weighs almost as much and provides less power, generally at lower levels of efficiency.


gottdi said:


> I highly doubt that GM is having trouble with the generator. Unless they came out and said it outright it is nothing but speculation.


A reporter who test drove it said flat out the generator engagement was wonky. Not technically unsound, but relatively crude in terms of engagement.


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## tinrobot (Aug 26, 2009)

dimitri said:


> Pete, I don't speculate, I read several articles on testing Volt and every one mentioned that test driver was not allowed to run out of battery because they didn't have the generator part working properly. I have not read a single article about Volt which talks about working generator and having a test driver run on pure generator.


They let a number of auto journalists drive the Volt in generator mode last week, right before the LA Auto Show. The reports seem good.

One review with a video of the Volt in charge-sustain mode :
http://gm-volt.com/2009/12/08/chevy-volt-test-drive-the-video/

Another review:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencarad...test-drive-informative-but-far-too-short.html

One more:
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...-of-electric-chevrolet-volt----and-likes-it/1


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## dogshed (Dec 25, 2009)

fishguts said:


> Since the gen motor will power the van as a hybrid at times, the motor in some (many? most?) states/countries will have to comply with DOT regs, which generator motors aren't set up for.


My idea was that I would only put the generator in the car or truck when I was going a long distance on the highway. As long as the generator was removable I don't think it would come under DOT regs any more than a generator on the back of an RV.


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## dogshed (Dec 25, 2009)

I was just looking at this spreadsheet:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/data/EVDrivePower.xls

To maintain highway speed you need around 40,000 watts.
So I take that to mean that I would need a generator that puts
out more than 40,000 watts continuously. Is the calculation that simple?

Here's a 45,000 watt generator with a 2.4 L engine.
http://www.northshorepowerelectric.com/guardian/45kw.pdf
If you get the aluminum version it weighs 1441 lbs.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Dogshed, to put the 1441 lbs in to perspective: I took a complete 4 banger out of my Tercel... the car lost ~400 lbs. See the data here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r-CNc_xo1jGERDhmEcKcMpg&gid=1


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2009)

What you want is a small generator that can produce enough to actually charge your pack. It is not required or desired to have your generator provide enough power for you to power your vehicle on the freeway. What you want is one that can charge and extend the charge of your pack. Not to replace the pack. So a decent small generator can increase your packs distance because it helps your pack not replace your pack. So instead of going 40 miles per charge you might get lets say 60 or 70 miles or more. You can also charge anywhere if you have gasoline on board if needed and if your far from home. Charge the pack and then drive with your generator operating and increase the distance per charge. Most here always quote that you'd need x amount of power to move your vehicle at freeway speeds. If you were only using the generator to power your electric motor then yes you'd need a good generator. If you just want a range extender you don't need a very large generator. 


Pete


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

dogshed said:


> My idea was that I would only put the generator in the car or truck when I was going a long distance on the highway. As long as the generator was removable I don't think it would come under DOT regs any more than a generator on the back of an RV.


If you're going that route it would be more efficient and weigh less to simply have the gas engine put its power directly on the road. And you end up with an EV Pusher Trailer:

http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm

It's a whole lot easier to do than trying to setup and carry a generator.

ga2500ev


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## dogshed (Dec 25, 2009)

gottdi said:


> What you want is a small generator that can produce enough to actually charge your pack. It is not required or desired to have your generator provide enough power for you to power your vehicle on the freeway.


I was thinking of that long drive I used to make from KC to Springfield, IL.
If I took a shortcut I could do it with one gas and bathroom stop.
Going at highway speed most of the way there would be no chance for a
smaller generator to catch up. How much smaller could I make the generator if I made one stop for 30 minutes?


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## dogshed (Dec 25, 2009)

ga2500ev said:


> If you're going that route it would be more efficient and weigh less to simply have the gas engine put its power directly on the road. And you end up with an EV Pusher Trailer:
> 
> http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
> 
> ...


I also joined a compressed natural gas forum and they are very picky about EPA regulations. I wonder what the EPA would think about a pusher trailer. You have to alter the fuel system. Maybe an electric pusher would be better. I know I read about a company that makes an add on device that give you an extra electric push to a regular ice vehicle.


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

dimitri said:


> I love when amps are mentioned without volts, how the heck can you figure out power output by just listing amps? Is it 400 amps at 12V ? 120V? 240V?
> 
> If you find an engine large enough to propel a van with generator and batteries, then you might as well use the engine to turn the wheels and remove the batteries, generator and electric motor, you'd shave so much weight off that it will make the van more efficient to run on gas alone.
> 
> IMHO, DIY series hybrid is simply not practical, you'd never get better efficiency using off the shelf parts. Look at GM, they still can't get Volt out due to issues with generator.


in generatotors -when amps are mentioned without volts - it means standard wall oulet 110v/60hz




dimitri said:


> Pete, I don't speculate, I read several articles on testing Volt and every one mentioned that test driver was not allowed to run out of battery because they didn't have the generator part working properly. I have not read a single article about Volt which talks about working generator and having a test driver run on pure generator.
> 
> I have a 6000 Watt genset which weighs 120 Lb and would not fit into a typical car, only a pickup or a minivan. Its brand new, efficient model, yadda yadda, and still it's not enough power to run my EV.
> 
> ...


it probably will - every hybrid uses ICE-generator in one form or another, isn't it
"If you know of specific model of a compact generator which weighs less than 200 Lb and capable of 15-20kW, please post a link or a model number."
portable, i saw - all about 10kw
well, Kohler and Kawi around 700cc industrial engines: 25-30hp 3600 rpm constant, about 50 ft lb torque at 2500; 
weight -about 90 lb 
-less than half you looking for (200lbs); match another half with electric part
(if el motors more efficient and compact - shouldn't be a poblem) : ))))

p.s. 35kw lotus genset: http://www.pistonheads.com/lotus/default.asp?storyId=20568
off-shelf parts, generators 4 EV: http://www.efoy.com/en/electric-cars-benefits.html 
http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/portable-generator.html
attachm- research http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94741&postcount=33


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

dogshed said:


> I also joined a compressed natural gas forum and they are very picky about EPA regulations. I wonder what the EPA would think about a pusher trailer. You have to alter the fuel system. Maybe an electric pusher would be better. I know I read about a company that makes an add on device that give you an extra electric push to a regular ice vehicle.


One posting on the subject made the argument that you can simply call the pusher a homemade trailer. While I agree that the fuel and exhaust systems are modified, as long as you keep the cat converter in place it should produce no more exhaust than the original.

An electric pusher somewhat defeats the purpose. While it would give you range extension, it's at the cost of weight and a lack of quick refueling.

ga2500ev


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gottdi said:


> What you want is a small generator that can produce enough to actually charge your pack. It is not required or desired to have your generator provide enough power for you to power your vehicle on the freeway. What you want is one that can charge and extend the charge of your pack. Not to replace the pack. So a decent small generator can increase your packs distance because it helps your pack not replace your pack. So instead of going 40 miles per charge you might get lets say 60 or 70 miles or more. You can also charge anywhere if you have gasoline on board if needed and if your far from home. Charge the pack and then drive with your generator operating and increase the distance per charge. Most here always quote that you'd need x amount of power to move your vehicle at freeway speeds. If you were only using the generator to power your electric motor then yes you'd need a good generator. If you just want a range extender you don't need a very large generator.
> 
> 
> Pete


Well said Pete, +1

If i may add a little information I have found...

Possible range extender setup and cost comparison: (let me know if i missed something)

20hp small engine 850$ 90lbs 

10kw-7.2kw Generator head 300$ 90lbs

Comparison:
Generator = 7.2kw cont.
Total Weight = 180lbs
Total Cost = $1,150

Extra Lithium = 7.36kwh
Total Weight = 162lbs (3.2kg for 320WH based on 3.2V 100AH TS cell)
Total Cost = $ 2,783 (100AH TS cell + 10% shipping cost from EVC)

$1,633 Total difference minus fuel cost/electricity cost difference...However, if used for emergency range extension, overall fuel cost should be low.

7.5 kw should be able to get you up to 50mph in the average car, with a lighter more aerodynamic car maybe up to 60mph+


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