# [EVDL] motor torque question



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Mike,

I have now been running my EV now for 6 years that weighs 7000 lbs with a =

Warp 9 , Zilla 1K and 180 V T-145 Trojan battery pack. It uses a Electro =

Auto taper lock coupling and adapter plate that is connected to a manual =

Saganaw 3-speed transmission that has a 1st gear ratio of 3.5:1 and with a =

5.57:1 differential gear, makes a overall ratio of 19.495:1 and in 2nd gear =

it has a overall ratio of 13.925:1.

Otmar of Caf=E9 Electric was scared that the Zilla 1K would not do the job =
and =

I would need a Zilla 2k. I said not to worry, I have the gears and I have =

been running with a 900 amp controller for 27 years with no problem and the =

maximum motor ampere I ever pull was 600 amps while going up a 7% hill ever=
y =

day for the last 10 years.

Tires are high pressure type set at 65 PSI, which has a rolling =

circumference of 94 inches.

On very smooth dead level grade at 25 mphs at a gear ratio of 19.495:1, the=
n =

motor ampere is 100 amps while the battery amps is 20 amps. When the grade =

gets rough and bumper, the motor amps goes to 150 amps and the battery amps =

to 50 amps.

If I shift to 2nd gear or 13.925:1 my motor amps go to 200 amps with a =

battery amps of 75 amps at 30 to 35 mph where I normally drive.

You must be able to deride all this data and more to determine what the =

torque will be at startup, at a given motor rpm and speed.

To find this data on the Warp motors it is best to contact:

George F. Hamstra at NetGain [email protected]

Tell him all what vehicle you want a motor to be install in. You need to =

know the weight, weight with battery packs, what types of batteries, the =

transmission gear ratio, differential gear ratio, size of tires, the =

diameter of tires, type of tires, what type of controller you are using, =

frontal area of the vehicle, and the average speed and top speed you want t=
o =

go and for how long.

George will make up a complete spread sheet for your vehicle and will E-mai=
l =

you the data.

If you want to see the formulas for calculating a EV performance see: =

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/8679/equations.html

You must first solve the first formula so the results are then inputted int=
o =

the next and so on.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Mike Boyles" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:37 AM
Subject: [EVDL] motor torque question


> Hi all, first post
>
> Can anyone tell me the maximum "installed" torque I should reasonably
> expect from a WarP 9 motor? I need to know the maximum torque I should
> consider when designing my taper lock motor/flywheel joint. The only
> motor curve I have only shows torque values under about 80 ft-#'s. I
> understand torque is a function of amps and that could be limited by
> either my controller (Zilla Z1K LV) or my batteries (yet to be
> determined). I was told by one source the maximum torque the motor
> could produce could be as high as 450 ft-#'s. This doesn't seem
> reasonable to me. Any thoughts?
> thanks,
>
> -- =

> MikeB2
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> =



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sounds about right. Lifebatt is doing a project in the UK using a 
WarP 9 with a LogiSystems 750A controller. They quote 500 ft-lbs of 
torque. See

http://www.lifebatt.co.uk/r2/index.html

Maximum torque for a DC motor is at 0 RPM. The reality if the tires 
will probably break friction before you get to 500 ft lbs, so they 
will be your limiting factor.





> Mike Boyles wrote:
> 
> > Hi all, first post
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Sounds about right. Lifebatt is doing a project in the UK using a
> WarP 9 with a LogiSystems 750A controller. They quote 500 ft-lbs of
> torque. See
>
> http://www.lifebatt.co.uk/r2/index.html
>
> Maximum torque for a DC motor is at 0 RPM. The reality if the tires
> will probably break friction before you get to 500 ft lbs, so they
> will be your limiting factor.

I'm pretty sure the 500ft-lbs they are talking about is /wheel/ torque not
motor torque.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> matt wrote:
> > That's odd, I always thought the torque equation for series wound
> > motors was T=c*I^2. So 70ft-lb at 334.5A is 625ft-lb (less probably
> > due to less than optimal timing) at 1000A.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ah ok, that makes sense.
Any ideas as to what current a warp 9 would go into saturation?
Does anyone know at what current density iron goes into saturation? 

Matt 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, 21 July 2008 10:26 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question



> matt wrote:
> > That's odd, I always thought the torque equation for series wound
> > motors was T=c*I^2. So 70ft-lb at 334.5A is 625ft-lb (less probably
> > due to less than optimal timing) at 1000A.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is interesting. The toque is proportional to the strength of the 
magnetic field... correct? So, are we saying that the strength of the 
magnetic field starts out as a squared function of current, and then 
transitions to a linear function of current... and this is because of 
what? Eddy currents in the iron? Saturation?

I'm just trying to understand this? There was another thread on how 
to improve the old tried and true series wound DC motor. Sounds like 
different material to avoid saturation would be a good idea.




> matt wrote:
> 
> > Ah ok, that makes sense.
> > Any ideas as to what current a warp 9 would go into saturation?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My first post was firing from the hip, now for some back-of-the-envelope. Working backwards from the Amps, Volts, voltage sag, an assumption that the motor drops out of current limit at mid rpm, etc. At mid rpm, I estimate the motor makes about 180 ft*lbs of torque with no current multiplication (nice to see that is close to your estimate). So Peter you are right, it does look like that are quoting wheel torque (unless they have a whole lotta current multiplication going on).


----- Original Message ----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
...




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> > This is interesting. The toque is proportional to the
> > strength of the magnetic field... correct? So, are we saying
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Matt wrote:
> 
> > That's odd, I always thought the torque equation for series
> > wound motors was T=c*I^2, So 70ft-lb at 334.5A is 625ft-lb
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more 
torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the 
force by going to a larger diameter motor. This kind of ties into the 
other discussion on how to improve the DC motors we all use in EVs. I 
wonder what type of minimum order quantity we would need to have a 
custom designed and optimized DC motor built for our community? Neon 
John, does your friend know?



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more
> torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the
> force by going to a larger diameter motor. This kind of ties into the
> other discussion on how to improve the DC motors we all use in EVs. I
> wonder what type of minimum order quantity we would need to have a
> custom designed and optimized DC motor built for our community? Neon
> John, does your friend know?

About the only thing you can improve on DC motors is the efficiency, and
then only slightly. If you spend a lot of money you might get another
5-10%.
If you are after efficiency why do you want to limit your selection to DC
motors?
A custom designed DC motor will cost more than the currently available AC
motors/controllers.
Considering the other advantages of AC motors (i.e. free regen), I'd
rather go with AC.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok, so I've been following this and am wondering. Would you gain appreciable
efficiency by supplying the field separately and stopping the increase of
current to the field at or just above saturation? Obviously continuing the
increase of current to the armature.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:51 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question

> Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more
> torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the
> force by going to a larger diameter motor. This kind of ties into the
> other discussion on how to improve the DC motors we all use in EVs. I
> wonder what type of minimum order quantity we would need to have a
> custom designed and optimized DC motor built for our community? Neon
> John, does your friend know?

About the only thing you can improve on DC motors is the efficiency, and
then only slightly. If you spend a lot of money you might get another
5-10%.
If you are after efficiency why do you want to limit your selection to DC
motors?
A custom designed DC motor will cost more than the currently available AC
motors/controllers.
Considering the other advantages of AC motors (i.e. free regen), I'd
rather go with AC.


_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Good question. Is it only the field windings that get saturated, or 
is it also the armature windings? Forgive my ignorance on this subject.



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > Ok, so I've been following this and am wondering. Would you gain
> > appreciable
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > About the only thing you can improve on DC motors is the efficiency,
> > and then only slightly. If you spend a lot of money you might get
> > another 5-10%. If you are after efficiency why do you want to limit
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was thinking of doing something similar to this sometime after finnishing
my ev.
Of course my intention was to increase power at high rpm by reducing the
field current so I could increase the armature current disproportionately.
Now that its been pointed out to me the field winding saturates at well
under 1000A (under 300A even) the usefulness of such a mod is questionable.

Does anyone know what the resistance is on the field coil of say a warp 11
or a warp 9?
Obviously halving the current going through the field coil will quarter the
power lost, but is it enough to be worthwhile?

Matt 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mark Grasser
Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2008 11:15 PM
To: [email protected]; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question

Ok, so I've been following this and am wondering. Would you gain appreciable
efficiency by supplying the field separately and stopping the increase of
current to the field at or just above saturation? Obviously continuing the
increase of current to the armature.

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:51 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question

> Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more 
> torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the 
> force by going to a larger diameter motor. This kind of ties into the 
> other discussion on how to improve the DC motors we all use in EVs. I 
> wonder what type of minimum order quantity we would need to have a 
> custom designed and optimized DC motor built for our community? Neon 
> John, does your friend know?

About the only thing you can improve on DC motors is the efficiency, and
then only slightly. If you spend a lot of money you might get another
5-10%.
If you are after efficiency why do you want to limit your selection to DC
motors?
A custom designed DC motor will cost more than the currently available AC
motors/controllers.
Considering the other advantages of AC motors (i.e. free regen), I'd rather
go with AC.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Peter,

We were discussing improving torque / power, not efficiency.

I agree AC is technically better, but at current pricing it is 2-5 
times the cost of DC for a 'high performance' conversion. The big 
cost factor in AC seams to be the controllers, not the motors. Maybe 
when Otmar comes out with his 3 phase Zilla, we will start looking at 
AC. Right now the options are limited and expensive. Look at Metric 
Minds price list.. $6K- $13K for a controller and then another $5K+ 
for a motor. AC propulsion $25K. Ouch! I would rather spend my 
money on a nice LiFePO4 battery pack, and give up the regen and 5% in 
efficiency.

If I was not interested in performance, and instead just looking for 
range and efficiency, the best value out there is the Azure Dynamics 
AC55 motor with matching controller. However its price is almost $2K 
more than the WarP11 with Z1K-HV that I chose for my conversion, and 
far short on peak performance.








> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> 
> >> Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more
> >> torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"Mostly, what is needed to improve EV motors is *sales volume*! Someone
needs to buy enough of them to justify designing motors specifically for
the application!"

We need an "Elon Musk" to purchase a few thousands of those Siemens AC
motor/controllers.

On 7/22/08, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter,
>
> We were discussing improving torque / power, not efficiency.
>
> I agree AC is technically better, but at current pricing it is 2-5
> times the cost of DC for a 'high performance' conversion. The big
> cost factor in AC seams to be the controllers, not the motors. Maybe
> when Otmar comes out with his 3 phase Zilla, we will start looking at
> AC. Right now the options are limited and expensive. Look at Metric
> Minds price list.. $6K- $13K for a controller and then another $5K+
> for a motor. AC propulsion $25K. Ouch! I would rather spend my
> money on a nice LiFePO4 battery pack, and give up the regen and 5% in
> efficiency.
>
> If I was not interested in performance, and instead just looking for
> range and efficiency, the best value out there is the Azure Dynamics
> AC55 motor with matching controller. However its price is almost $2K
> more than the WarP11 with Z1K-HV that I chose for my conversion, and
> far short on peak performance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > >> Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more
> > >> torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm pretty positive Tesla is not using Siemens products. The volume number
for a high end 50kw AC motor and drive is around 250 units. But who can sit
on 250 units and wait for them to sell? I think you'll find thats the major
hurdle for anyone. I'm not sure how advantageous it would be for Tesla to
buy a few thousand motor/controllers for anything but their vehicles. It
wouldn't help the DIY market....



> Joseph T. <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > "Mostly, what is needed to improve EV motors is *sales volume*! Someone
> > needs to buy enough of them to justify designing motors specifically for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tesla manufactures their own motors. They took the AC Propulsion 
design and tweaked it to allow it to be manufactured by conventional 
motor manufacturing means. The AC Propulsion motors are individually 
hand made. Read up on it in Tesla website if your interested.



> Marty Mercer wrote:
> 
> > I'm pretty positive Tesla is not using Siemens products. The volume
> > number
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

They started with AC Propulsion. They are no longer working with or
associated with AC Propulsion. This is public info on their web site...

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Tesla manufactures their own motors. They took the AC Propulsion
> design and tweaked it to allow it to be manufactured by conventional
> motor manufacturing means. The AC Propulsion motors are individually
> hand made. Read up on it in Tesla website if your interested.
>
>


> Marty Mercer wrote:
> >
> > > I'm pretty positive Tesla is not using Siemens products. The volume
> > > number
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My son is an engineer for a fairly large manufacturing company.
He tells me that most of the new fork lifts showing up in their
facilities are AC.
This is a privately owned and very conservative company that I don't
feel would be spending additional money on things that are not
advantageous to their business.
He's not involved in the decision to purchase them and didn't know they
answer to this question.

What advantage would they have over DC models.
I assume that they would cost more.

Just curious if anyone knows;

Dennis
Elsberry, MO




-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Heuckeroth [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:02 AM
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question

Peter,

We were discussing improving torque / power, not efficiency.

I agree AC is technically better, but at current pricing it is 2-5 times
the cost of DC for a 'high performance' conversion. The big cost factor
in AC seams to be the controllers, not the motors. Maybe when Otmar
comes out with his 3 phase Zilla, we will start looking at AC. Right
now the options are limited and expensive. Look at Metric Minds price
list.. $6K- $13K for a controller and then another $5K+ for a motor.
AC propulsion $25K. Ouch! I would rather spend my money on a nice
LiFePO4 battery pack, and give up the regen and 5% in efficiency.

If I was not interested in performance, and instead just looking for
range and efficiency, the best value out there is the Azure Dynamics
AC55 motor with matching controller. However its price is almost $2K
more than the WarP11 with Z1K-HV that I chose for my conversion, and far
short on peak performance.







_______________________________________________
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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[email protected]
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:19:15 
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question


Tesla manufactures their own motors. They took the AC Propulsion
design and tweaked it to allow it to be manufactured by conventional
motor manufacturing means. The AC Propulsion motors are individually
hand made. Read up on it in Tesla website if your interested.



> Marty Mercer wrote:
> 
> > I'm pretty positive Tesla is not using Siemens products. The volume
> > number
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It was a joke!

On 7/22/08, Craig Egan <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected]
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:19:15
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question
>
>
> Tesla manufactures their own motors. They took the AC Propulsion
> design and tweaked it to allow it to be manufactured by conventional
> motor manufacturing means. The AC Propulsion motors are individually
> hand made. Read up on it in Tesla website if your interested.
>
>


> Marty Mercer wrote:
> >
> > > I'm pretty positive Tesla is not using Siemens products. The volume
> > > number
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
...
> Look at Metric
> Minds price list.. $6K- $13K for a controller and then another $5K+ 
> for a motor. AC propulsion $25K. Ouch!

So, prices on Metric Mind site are twice as low then; and you're still 
complaining...

Seriously, prices on my site are not good indication of the cost of 
hardware. Since it is all imported, mainly high cost is due to
low USD/Euro ratio, thanks to the wonderful state of economy we're in.

I use to sell *identical* hardware almost twice as cheap in 2002-2004.
Ask Siemens systems buyers at that time - Sheer Pullen or Gary Graunke. 
My prices in Euro haven't changed much, about 15% due to materials cost 
increase. And, profit margin percentage didn't change either.

But I use to buy 1.3 Euro for 1 dollar in 2003.
Today 1 USD worth just 63 Euro-cents (www.xe.com). What do you expect?

US made EV-specific hardware could be better indication of the cost, but 
unfortunately there isn't any produced worthy discussing. Azure comes 
closest, but their motors' specs are quite ugly comparing to what's 
doable in this arena.

I know, better than nothing, but this is different topic.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - someting different
'01 in-AUDI-ble - handsome car with 0.4MW AC drive (work in progress)

> 
> 
> 
>


> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> >>> Ok. So if we are pushing saturation in the iron, how do we get more
> >>> torque. The simple solution is to increase the moment arm of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 22 Jul 2008 at 21:08, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> 
> > US made EV-specific hardware could be better indication of the cost, but
> > unfortunately there isn't any produced worthy discussing. Azure comes closest,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> US made EV-specific hardware could be better indication of the cost, but
> unfortunately there isn't any produced worthy discussing. Azure comes
> closest, but their motors' specs are quite ugly comparing to what's
> doable in this arena.

Not to mention that Azure/Solectria products that are only a few years old
are no longer supported.

I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of buying an expensive
part for my EV, only to find out in a couple years that I can't get it
fixed anymore.


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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't know about this, but if they did, their hardware can only be the 
same at very best, but usually such endeavors end up producing
worse stuff. Since it is already sort of marginal, I doubt you're buing
a value worth money you're paying for their systems. Especially if as
Peter saying it is not supported very well (or at all).

But what do I know? I never had chance/need to use Azure system. I've 
seen it since it is modified copy of Solectria's (e.g. BRUSA's) original 
designs of 80's. May be someone who has it can comment how worthy it is.

Victor



> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > On 22 Jul 2008 at 21:08, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> >> US made EV-specific hardware could be better indication of the cost, but
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:23:27 -0500, "Pestka, Dennis J"


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >My son is an engineer for a fairly large manufacturing company.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't take it personally, Victor. Your in a tough spot with exchange 
rates. The stuff you sell is top notch, but out of most peoples price 
range.



> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[snip]
> - easy regen. Another biggie for range extension in the stop-and-go operation
> of fork lifts

And don't forget about saving on the brake pads. That is the biggest
reason I like regen on my Gizmo. All of the stop-n-go in town driving
burns through brake pads.

-- 
David D. Nelson

http://evalbum.com/1328


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> And don't forget about saving on the brake pads. That is the biggest
> reason I like regen on my Gizmo. All of the stop-n-go in town driving
> burns through brake pads.

Considering how cheap brake pads are, how long they last, and how easy
they are to replace, seems like a small advantage to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have regen, I'm just not ready to spend a
lot of money on it.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> And don't forget about saving on the brake pads. That is the biggest
> >> reason I like regen on my Gizmo. All of the stop-n-go in town driving
> >> burns through brake pads.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David

If you have gone through 3 sets of pads in 4000 miles you have serious
problems.
Going through pads that fast means you are either constantly chewing away at
them 
or really frying them in stops. Unless you drive around with the brakes on
you
should get 20,000 plus miles (and usually way more) on a single set of pads.
People who drive around town dragging the brakes might see about 10,000
miles
on one set.

If the pads are too small or the callipers are not retracting away from the
rotor 
or the brakes generally are undersized for the weight then you should smell
burning 
pads (a lot). As I'm sure someone has mentioned before if your range is crap
then
you should be looking at the callipers not releasing. And it could be the
wrong
brake material but then this would show up as a problems for any of the
cars.

If that isn't the case then you should see if you feel any pulsing or
vibration
when braking. If not then jack the car up and spin the wheel by hand and
feel
for smooth function. If you can apply the brakes slightly and turn the wheel
and feel if it catches and then turns smooth. If it is doing any of this
then 
you probably have a bad rotor or the callipers are not mounted right. If you
are going through pads this fast I'd say this is a good bet what your
problem
is. It doesn't take much to warp a rotor and they will even warp if they are
not stored or shipped properly. And it doesn't take much warp to kill pads.
You should be able to get your rotor turned for under $10. A few shops will
turn or face all rotors before installation, including brand new ones.

A set of standard pads is about $25 but you should be able to get better
materials that will handle the heat if everything else works out. Any brake
rebuilder can put new material on existing pads. There are several pad
materials
out there that will happily glow red hot and still work fine. 

Dave
-----Original Message-----



> Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> And don't forget about saving on the brake pads. That is the biggest
> >> reason I like regen on my Gizmo. All of the stop-n-go in town driving
> >> burns through brake pads.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I also have a solectria UMOC 44TF, I am currently trying to use it after
first testing it succesfully about 4 yrs. ago. There is a long charging
time (15min for every month not in use) mentioned in the manual. After a
few hours of charging I still don't seem to get any response from the
device; I connected a 260VDC pack (of small AH batts for testing , motor
power and speed cables to the UMOC, and a homemade control box w. pot for
gas pedal, on/off, 12VDC power for controller, and some indicator lights. 
The 'batt full' comes on , and when the pot is moved enough towards one end,
the 'batt empty' also comes on - is this standard behavior or is the
controller defunct? 

Should the fans come on when its 'alive' or only when it overheats? Are
there any indicators showing if the thing is healthy? 

Maybe I should use the DB9 connector supplied for computer connection to try
to talk to the controller from a PC. Does anyone have the program or syntax
for such comunication?

The power batts are 5Ah and can probably put out 10amps without too much
problem.

--
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Does the motor move?
Connecting Halls and Phases in wrong order can cause
high current draw if this is a standard AC setup.
It can give either no (stall) or fast motor run.
The high current draw can result in battery low indication... 

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of jeremy rutman
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question

I also have a solectria UMOC 44TF, I am currently trying to use it
after first testing it succesfully about 4 yrs. ago. There is a long
charging time (15min for every month not in use) mentioned in the
manual. After a few hours of charging I still don't seem to get any
response from the device; I connected a 260VDC pack (of small AH batts
for testing , motor power and speed cables to the UMOC, and a homemade
control box w. pot for gas pedal, on/off, 12VDC power for controller,
and some indicator lights. 
The 'batt full' comes on , and when the pot is moved enough towards one
end, the 'batt empty' also comes on - is this standard behavior or is
the controller defunct? 

Should the fans come on when its 'alive' or only when it overheats? Are
there any indicators showing if the thing is healthy? 

Maybe I should use the DB9 connector supplied for computer connection to
try to talk to the controller from a PC. Does anyone have the program or
syntax for such comunication?

The power batts are 5Ah and can probably put out 10amps without too much
problem.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/motor-torqu
e-question-tp441267p4531656.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 4 Apr 2012 at 5:06, jeremy rutman wrote:
> 
> > I connected a 260VDC pack of small AH batts for testing .... can
> > probably put out 10amps without too much problem ... The 'batt full'
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Nelson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:22 AM, Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> And don't forget about saving on the brake pads. That is the biggest
> >>> reason I like regen on my Gizmo. All of the stop-n-go in town driving
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I used to have a Prius.
Many (not all) Prius owners reported that they never
replaced their brake pads, even after 200,000 miles
if they got used to mainly regen-braking (anticipation).
Some drivers had virtually no difference in pad wear
compared to plain ICE vehicles, which says everything
about their method of braking (too hard, too late
and accelerating even if they cannot pass,
resulting in more braking) 
Dust from brakes is a nasty substance, so getting
less of it by not wearing your pads and throwing
all your energy away is a win-win-win.


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 1:45 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor torque question



> David Nelson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:22 AM, Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>> And don't forget about saving on the brake pads. That is the biggest
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Cor van de Water wrote
> 
> Does the motor move?
> Connecting Halls and Phases in wrong order can cause
> high current draw if this is a standard AC setup.
> It can give either no (stall) or fast motor run.
> The high current draw can result in battery low indication... 
> 

So far no motor movement. I think the prob. may be that the controller
wants to be started in 'neutral' whereas I've hardwired it into 'forward'.

--
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

success! this is probably the longest-delayed ev grin - it looks like putting
the controller into neutral allowed it to start. there's a relay or
contactor that you can hear thunk on when you supply the 12V key power to
the UMOC controller. 

A few mysteries were cleared up ; e.g the 240VDC from the batts was being
pulled down below the 200V lower limit, giving me intermittent
quarter-turns. After we gave power using my 'bad boy' dc power supply the
wheel started moving continuously albeit lurching a bit - with more power it
seemed to smooth out. Is the lurch due to a missing/reversed phase? Or
would that cause oscillation between two positions and not rotation?

ev - grin time....
http://youtu.be/1ZzaNSB63e4

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