# Another great liquid heater design.



## Garn (Nov 27, 2008)

I was looking for others who were using Kelly controllers to see if they might be able to suggest anything I could try to get it to perform better. I ran across a car made by Mike Evans from New Zealand. While looking over his design I noticed he was using a liquid heater as well, so I asked him some questions about it. It’s similar to the other design that is posted out here by Chamilum so I thought I would share his design you all of you. It looks like a very nice design!
In his own words:
“Also, yes, that is the Swiss EV heater I was referring to. From a practical standpoint, I have accomplished the same effect for about half the cost. Matter of fact, the Swiss unit was the initial inspiration I used to begin experimenting with various components, which quickly led me to my current configuration. It bench tested so much better than the ceramic setup, so I installed it on the car and was very pleased with the outcome. Aside from the flush mount 12v switch that I installed on a blank OEM switch plate adjacent to the heater controls, the source of the heat is transparent to the person operating the vehicle, and that was a primary goal. The only noises I can hear are a very light hum from the pump motor, and the steam bubbles that sound like a fish tank aerator, but these very quiet noises disappear when the fan is turned on, or you aren't standing under the bonnet listening for them. The vacuum pump for the brakes is much louder, but even that is very quiet compared to an ICE idling. 

I could have omitted the pushbutton and just used the OEM fan switch to kick the contactor on, but that would mean producing heat (and wasting electricity) every time I needed ventilation. My vent temperature on hi fan is 74 Deg C (165 deg F), and my temp at the tank heater is 90 deg C (195 deg F). It takes less than 5 minutes for the system to reach optimal temperature, and it's more frugal than ceramic elements, so I'm pretty delighted with the results. I see lots of conversions without heaters, or with weak ceramic elements that everyone whines about not providing adequate heat to melt frost or to defrost the windows for safety. I like a car with a good heater and ventilation system, and that's exactly what I made. I do recommend this system for anyone else that may be looking to heat their EV properly, because it works exceedingly well, it's inexpensive, and it's easy to fit.”
“If you feel so inclined, you may certainly post any information on my heating system that will assist someone who is looking to provide OEM-like heat to their EV. Information should be free, IMHO. The more we share information like this, the more people become familiar and comfortable with owning an EV. This is the way to move forward and put more EV's on the road.”
“I was going through my photos and came across this photo of my EV heater. You see the heater as it was assembled for the first time and tested on the car. What is not shown is the Kilovac (Tyco) contactor as it was already installed in the car, along with the 12v switch on the dash.

“ I forgot a couple of incidental parts, as it's been a while since I put this together, like the corrugated wire protectors (just like OEM), the Prestone radiator cap (13 pound) on the aluminum tank, and the hoses, hose clamps, etc...I also installed a quick disconnect plug on the pump and the heater, just in case I ever have to do any work on it, so it will be easy to remove.”

*EV Heater Parts*
*Description*
*Source*
*Cost (US$)*
Kilovac LEV200 Contactor SPNO 12V coil
Tyco INC

$38​
12V Pushbutton Amber lighted switch
Parts America Online

$12​
1 Quart Aluminum Overflow Tank
EBAY (USER ID: wheelerpowerproducts)

$70​
12VDC hot water pump
EBAY (USER ID: easy_flow_pumps)

$68​
Engine Block Tank style heater 1000watt
EBAY (various USER ID's sell this part)

$35​
Heater Hose, clamps, wiring, connectors
Local Auto parts store

$30​
Aluminum mounting plate & brackets
Made my own mounting brackets 

$20​
Labor
myself, 2 hours

$40​
Total

$313​


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

that looks nice, but I don't see why you couldn't use other components combined with your cars original coolant reservoir and have the same thing for 1/2 the cost of his system. Block heaters are what??? $60 and pumps for $40.. couple of odds and ends and for maybe $120, you have the same setup.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

also, I know there's a huge debate between liquid and ceramic heaters.. but....

I noticed he stated that his system gives him vent temp of 74degrees and heats up in 5 minutes. My $15 cheapo ceramic heater from Target puts out 83 degrees from the vents and heats up in less than a minute... Just fyi.

Just sharing info! Not looking for debate! lol...


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## mpevans (Feb 10, 2009)

PatricioIN said:


> that looks nice, but I don't see why you couldn't use other components combined with your cars original coolant reservoir and have the same thing for 1/2 the cost of his system. Block heaters are what??? $60 and pumps for $40.. couple of odds and ends and for maybe $120, you have the same setup.


 
Hi there, I'm Mike, the person who put the parts together to form the heater. Yes, you are right, you could make it cheaper by selecting different components. I simply took an idea from that Swiss heater at over $600, and made my heater half that price. I used new, quality components, and still beat the Swiss EV heater by half. You have made it half the price again, so good on you. Have you built it yet? I'd like to see a photo of it when you get done. Cheers!


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## mpevans (Feb 10, 2009)

PatricioIN said:


> also, I know there's a huge debate between liquid and ceramic heaters.. but....
> 
> I noticed he stated that his system gives him vent temp of 74degrees and heats up in 5 minutes. My $15 cheapo ceramic heater from Target puts out 83 degrees from the vents and heats up in less than a minute... Just fyi.
> 
> Just sharing info! Not looking for debate! lol...


Hi there, please read Garn's post again. The vent temp is 74 deg Celsius, not Farenheit. Thank you. Kind Regards, Mike


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## mpevans (Feb 10, 2009)

BTW, I'm delighted with not having the ubiquitous white plastic jug under the bonnet because it's a vestigal reminder of the ICE's lack of efficiency and I absolutely adore having a nice, professional and tidy installation, even if I did pay double of what others might pay for brand new parts or what it may be built out of with cast-off bits. I selected the parts because they were the best engineered for what I wanted to build, in my opinion. The cost of new parts in trade for the reliability and the tidy looking result gives me a small sense of engineering pride in accomplishment. I did consider using the OEM overflow jug, but because I wanted a sealed, pressurised system due to essentially handling near-boiling water like the OEM ICE can produce, and really didn't want to piss around with hacking holes into the OEM jug, trying to fit 3/4" bayonets into it, and contending with leaks because I used hacked up parts. My objective is to make my car professional, robust, reliable and sustainable. One thing is certainly true, if you begin with rubbish, you end up with rubbish. I know lots of people who'll build stuff out of cast-off bits to save a dollar or two and it _ALWAYS_ costs more in the long run (always means "ALWAYS"). I do care what your opinion is about my EV heater, and I think it's a great heater that is well matched to my conversion and the decisions I've made in building it. I respect anyone's decision to use whatever kind of heater they see fit to make, just as I have done. If someone else is able to use the design, improve it, or pass it along, then we, as an EV community all win. AIMHO


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

mpevans said:


> Hi there, please read Garn's post again. The vent temp is 74 deg Celsius, not Farenheit. Thank you. Kind Regards, Mike


oh.. hell! that DOES make a difference! Now you've really got my attention. I may have to rethink this liquid heater thing for the next conversion. As it turns out on mine, my batts are so close to the firewall, I'm not sure I could attach anything to those inlets (hmm.. maybe some sort of 90 degree angle fitting?) Well, next winter.......!


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

oh brother........


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Here's is my setup so far, $35 and about 5 minutes work. Kats 1500 watt heater from Amazon. Did a test by plugging it into the wall and hooking 12 volts to the fan and even with no pump it heats up pretty quick, but I'll be adding a circulator pump.


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## ice (Sep 8, 2008)

better add circulator pump for pressure drop.


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## JSRacer (Jun 22, 2008)

We have had great liquid heater success! We measured 105 degrees F at the vents after just a few minutes. But the ambient temp was around 70 to begin with. Our system is open so therefore no pressure issues at all. We have a little over $100 in it. Kats heater and a Shur-Flo (if i remember right) pump. It's wired so that the heater will not turn on without the pump circulating but we do have to remember to shut the heater down a minute or 2 before we shut the pump down. It works great!


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## ice (Sep 8, 2008)

wow, fantastic!


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