# To Convert Or Buy ZAP



## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

Hello there,

I live on a tight budget. I have the choice between buying a Xebra Zap 2007 sedan (in perfect condition, with 4k light miles on it) or converting a Trabant 601 (yes, a Trabant). The Trabant is in excellent condition and already here in the States. 

The Xebra Zap will cost me $4,000. 

Trabants weigh about 1200lbs curb weight. How much could I expect to pay to convert it to the same level of performance I could expect from the Xebra Zap 2007?

My desired performance profile is:
Top speed: 40mph
Range: 10 miles each way, 20 miles total
Carry capacity: Driver and 300 lbs cargo (or passenger with light cargo).

Advice? Xebra Zap for $4k, or convert a Trabant for...how much?

Another acceptable option would be converting a light Japanese car. How much would it cost to do that, if I already have the car, to the level of performance I want?


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## Studebaker (Jan 22, 2012)

Trabant is a cool car. Two stroke or newer vw polo engine version?


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

The 601 is two-stroke. Which, obviously, will come out if the thing is electrified. 

I'm trying to decide whether to buy the Zap or go with the conversion. Should I pick up the Zap for $4k, or how much would it cost to refit a Trabant or light Japanese car to the same level of performance?


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Aestu said:


> The 601 is two-stroke. Which, obviously, will come out if the thing is electrified.
> 
> I'm trying to decide whether to buy the Zap or go with the conversion. Should I pick up the Zap for $4k, or how much would it cost to refit a Trabant or light Japanese car to the same level of performance?


I can tell you the Zap is a MUCH easier mod, but it has the refinement of a chinese car or a Subaru 360. My father loves his Miles ZX40 (similar to a zap) despite the crap interior because its cheap to modify.

If you go with a conversion you can expect to pay $6k-$25k to convert if SOMEONE ELSE does most of the work (assuming a reasonable battery size and platform). If YOU do all of the work you can make it as cheaply or expensively as you want and will need to rely on cheap junkyard forklift parts and the like.

Look up project forkenswift to see what $500+ will do.

So the answer is it depends, the trouble with the Zap is that its build level is lower than a traditional car and you are stuck with a few moderately proprietary components, but it also doesn't take much to fix the issues you run into.

Also, you can get an NEV for much less than $4k, miles ZX40's are relitively easy to find under $2000, Wheego Whips (already AC & 96v) can be had around $3500 or less if you look.

However, if you use a trabant a small 48v lithium battery pack will easily drive you 40mph and 40 miles. The same is true of the subaru 360 (which is a great platform since its only 900lbs and moderately aero)

In other words your Trabant is a more efficient platform for an EV than the ZAP but you would need to be capable of doing much more fab work. Also the trabant would NEED lithium (but not much of it) since lead would just be too heavy for the car without suspension mods.

http://www.greenwheelschicago.com/2013_Wheego_Life_175825289.veh

Good Luck
Ryan


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

That's some very good information. Thanks!

So, you are saying the ZAP is probably just a bad deal period - I'd be better off getting something else if I wanted something at that price, for that role?

I have no engineering knowledge, but I can easily find someone who does - I'd need them to do the necessary work. You think I could have someone EV-convert a Trabant to the same performance profile for, say, $7500, including parts and labor?


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## Studebaker (Jan 22, 2012)

Aestu said:


> The 601 is two-stroke. Which, obviously, will come out if the thing is electrified.


Obviously. Great thing about those Trabants thou, is they have free wheel. So you wouldn’t need to worry about clutch whatsoever. It’ll do fine without. You can change gears every time you take your foot from accelerator. 

As far as conversion goes not sure if 4k is gonna cut it. Although there’s been quite few Trabants converted in eastern Europe for far less than that. Just google it.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Aestu said:


> That's some very good information. Thanks!
> 
> So, you are saying the ZAP is probably just a bad deal period - I'd be better off getting something else if I wanted something at that price, for that role?
> 
> I have no engineering knowledge, but I can easily find someone who does - I'd need them to do the necessary work. You think I could have someone EV-convert a Trabant to the same performance profile for, say, $7500, including parts and labor?


No not at all, if you do not have the skills necessary to do fab work the zap would work best for you, a low cost conversion depends on you having the time to search out and rebuild junkyard components. All I was saying is to take your time and either get the best deal or get what you want or if you have a huge amount of time maybe both 

The zap being an EV allows you to slowly mod one part at a time until it does exactly what you want, for example converting the zap later on to lithium would be relatively easy, converting your trabant, will not be.


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

Is the ZAP a good deal as priced?

It's in perfect condition with 4k miles. For $4k, is that good?


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## Studebaker (Jan 22, 2012)

rmay635703 said:


> The zap being an EV allows you to slowly mod one part at a time until it does exactly what you want, for example converting the zap later on to lithium would be relatively easy, converting your trabant, will not be.


Agree. 100 percent. But Trabant is a car. An icon of eastern European cold war motoring. Zap is Chinese plastic box on wheels. I personally would never put any money in it. Let alone $4k to have it, in the first place.


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

The Zap, it seems, is even unworthy of an indefinite article in your eyes! 

How hard is it to convert the Zap to lithium? Do I just pull the six batteries and plug lithiums of the same type - Group 31 - in? Or does it require some wiring?


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## Studebaker (Jan 22, 2012)

Aestu said:


> How hard is it to convert the Zap to lithium?


Hard enough to choose different car to make the effort worth your while.


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

I turned down the ZAP.

I'm thinking my best bet is to EV-convert a Trabant or some other very light car. I want to use a golf cart engine and a lithium battery. What would be the lightest expensive car to do this on (not a Trabant)? I'd like it to be something sportier than a Geo - like a very light coupe or something. 

My concerns are about braking and transmission. How hard is it to refit a car with power brakes? And are all EV-conversions manual transmission by nature, or is it possible to make them auto?


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## Studebaker (Jan 22, 2012)

OK. You got me kid. Guess when I heard word Trabant my judgment got clouded. Anyway aren’t there moderators here to keep children at bay? This forum is slow enough as it is.
Now kid, piss off outta here.


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

I did a bit of reading on the site. You have to remember, my automotive knowledge is minimal.

My concern about using the Trabant was the unpowered braking and manual trans. But since the former can be upgraded and the latter is a given, it's not such a bad idea. Trabant it is. 

The part that confuses me - I don't see much explanation - is how to connect the new powerplant to the existing drivetrain and suspension. I assume this requires machining? Is using a Trabant going to present a problem for an American in terms of parts and/or engineering?


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Aestu said:


> My concern about using the Trabant was the unpowered braking and manual trans.


Actually those are ideal for an EV, as are drag free drum brakes.



Aestu said:


> The part that confuses me - I don't see much explanation - is how to connect the new powerplant to the existing drivetrain and suspension. I assume this requires machining? Is using a Trabant going to present a problem for an American in terms of parts and/or engineering?


Yes it presents a problem, you will need a machine shop to custom fab a lovejoy, driveline adapter, motor mounts and other goodies for your batteries and EV systems.

It is very doable but the cost can be very high depending on who you find to do it.


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## Aestu (Nov 24, 2013)

How do I determine the specifications and what is necessary?


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