# Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Waste of money. You'll be buying new batteries by this time next year.

>
> What do you think of the Trojan SCS225 12 Volt Battery with the DWNT
> terminals. I can get 6 volters local here but they are the ones with the
> short posts that can't handle the torque. These seem to be like a decent
> option I have local. $212 each if I get 6 of them. I know I my need more
> but
> for now it will give me a decent starting point. I can get a second batch
> real soon.
>
>
>
> Pete : )
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Trojan-Battery-tp16318226p16318226.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Hello Pete,

NO WAY, these are a cranking type of marine deep cycle battery. You be able 
to turn over a 12 volt motor at 20 amps for about 30 to 45 minutes and the 
minute it reaches 10 to 10.5 volts, they will drop off like a rock.

I use one of these to test and break in a motor and while watching the volt 
and amp meter, when it gets to 10 volts, it will drop so fast, that by the 
time I can turn off the power, the voltage may be down to 6 volts.

Use the 12 volt deep cycle batteries that are design for Golf Carts. not a 
marine deep cycle type.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "gottdi" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Trojan Battery


>
> What do you think of the Trojan SCS225 12 Volt Battery with the DWNT
> terminals. I can get 6 volters local here but they are the ones with the
> short posts that can't handle the torque. These seem to be like a decent
> option I have local. $212 each if I get 6 of them. I know I my need more 
> but
> for now it will give me a decent starting point. I can get a second batch
> real soon.
>
>
>
> Pete : )
>
>
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Trojan-Battery-tp16318226p16318226.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Thank you. I don't want to do the short post floodies either because I 
can't make them larger. I can bolt them down but I'd have to keep a 
good eye on the terminals so none get loose and fry a hole into a 
battery. I'd prefer a large terminal battery like most here actually 
get. I originally figured that the bolt style would have been best but 
I guess not.


Pete : )



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > gottdi wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*



> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Thank you. I don't want to do the short post floodies either
> > because I can't make them larger. I can bolt them down but
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > NO WAY, these are a cranking type of marine deep cycle
> > battery. You be able to turn over a 12 volt motor at 20 amps
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Got the message loud and clear guys. I will check the local Golf Cart company
that I saw around the corner from the battery place. Maybe they will have
what I need. 
Thanks a bunch. 
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Trojan-Battery-tp16318226p16320150.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Pete, I had 12 Trojan 30XHS's which were the same
battery internally as the SCS225, in my Saturn. Do not
buy them for an on road conversion, they won't handle
EV currents, nor do they take deep cycling very well.
After a month or two you will start sucking shreds of
former active material in a hydrometer when you go to
measure SG. I got maybe 6 months of decent service
from them and the range was never really all that
great. I eeked 2 years of life out of them, but the
last year I only had 10 miles range or less. Under
warranty I had to replace 8 of the 12! They just don't
hold up. Ohh, and in those two years I put a meager
3,000 miles on the car.

Jump to today, I have 18 T-875's in the car now and
it's a night and day difference. The voltage doesn't
absolutely collapse under load and I have range. Since
Dec 1st when I got the car going again with these
batteries I've put over 5,000 miles on the car and
these batteries only seem to still be getting better.

Look on Trojan's web site, they have other terminal
options. You'll have to order them, but they can be
had. My T-875's have automotive posts, they took 6
weeks to get, but were well worth the wait because I
have no concerns with my connections now.

Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC Conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
5,100 EV miles since Dec 1!

----------------------------
>What do you think of the Trojan SCS225 12 Volt
Battery >with the DWNT
>terminals. I can get 6 volters local here but they
are >the ones with
> the
>short posts that can't handle the torque. These seem
to >be like a
> decent
>option I have local. $212 each if I get 6 of them. I
>know I my need
> more but
>for now it will give me a decent starting point. I
can >get a second
> batch
>real soon. 
>
>
>
>Pete : )


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*



> On 26 Mar 2008 at 10:06, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> 
> > Trojan SCS225 12 Volt Battery with the DWNT
> > > terminals. ... $212 each if I get 6 of them.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of gottdi
> Sent: March 27, 2008 4:18 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Trojan Battery
>
>
> Got a price for two Trojans here local to me. Good? Bad? Excellent?
>
> T-105 $133.68 ea. 12 = $1604.16 72 volt Pack With tall posts
> T-145 $189.93 ea. 12 = $2279.16 72 volt Pack With tall posts

Have you priced the comparable UB Battery models? I hear they are EVer friendly and often a bit better priced.

FWIW, the T105 is rated 115min @ 75A; the T145 is rated 145min @ 75A. The prices above suggest you would be paying about 42% more for the T145s and getting only 26% more capacity.

The T125/US125 in between the two is usually considered the best bang for the buck amongst the flooded 6VGCs, you might want to price it as well, just for fun.

Cheers,

Roger.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*



> I wrote:
> 
> > Have you priced the comparable UB Battery models?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

That may be the best you can get through a dealer. If you can find the 
distributor for your area and gave them a call, sometimes the distributor 
will sell directly to you for a research and display project, use and 
displaying there products and info for them at certain events.

Try U.S. Battery, and see if they will beat Trojan bid. I think someone on 
the list got U.S. Batteries for about $150 something.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "gottdi" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Trojan Battery


>
> Got a price for two Trojans here local to me. Good? Bad? Excellent?
>
> T-105 $133.68 ea. 12 = $1604.16 72 volt Pack With tall posts
> T-145 $189.93 ea. 12 = $2279.16 72 volt Pack With tall posts
>
> Pete : )
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Trojan-Battery-tp16318226p16341258.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

> FWIW, the T105 is rated 115min @ 75A; the T145 is rated 145min @ 75A. The 
> prices above suggest you would be paying about 42% more for the T145s and 
> getting only 26% more capacity.
>

Is capacity increase linear?

Rush
Tucson, AZ
2000 Insight, 66.7lmpg, #4965
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
www.TEVA2.com 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

I've always been told that the best deal is the T125. I don't know the
numbers though.

Mark Grasser
Balyntec
Marine Products, LLC
828-581-4601
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Rush
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery

> FWIW, the T105 is rated 115min @ 75A; the T145 is rated 145min @ 75A. The

> prices above suggest you would be paying about 42% more for the T145s and 
> getting only 26% more capacity.
>

Is capacity increase linear?

Rush
Tucson, AZ
2000 Insight, 66.7lmpg, #4965
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
www.TEVA2.com 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

No confusion.

Thanks and yes I will see if I can get a price local for the US 
Battery. I will be pricing continental as well.

Pete : )






> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > I wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

I'm looking around for new batteries for my car. I put the T-875 into the
calculator (http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/) and I get about 20
mile range at 40mph in 1st gear (with Auburn Kodiak, 144V, RWD aerodinamic
small car, ADC 9"). Is that close to what you're seeing with your setup? I
always wonder how close to reality that calculator is.

-Jon Glauser
http://www.evalbum.com/555

<quote who="Ricky Suiter">
> Jump to today, I have 18 T-875's in the car now and
> it's a night and day difference. The voltage doesn't
> absolutely collapse under load and I have range. Since
> Dec 1st when I got the car going again with these
> batteries I've put over 5,000 miles on the car and
> these batteries only seem to still be getting better.
>
> Later,
> Rick
> 92 Saturn SC Conversion
> AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
> 5,100 EV miles since Dec 1!


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

I don't have any experience with the Trojan T-105's in an EV, but I have
used them exclusively in my Elec-Trak's.
They have given me excellent service.
My first pack lasted 8 years, with very little maintenance.
My new pack was purchased last spring at a cost of ~ $100 a piece.
I get a good price with a company discount through a local Trojan
distributor in St. Louis; Industrial Battery Products.
If your not looking for high amp draws and performance, and can take the
weight of a large pack of floodies, I think Trojan is well worth the
money.

Dennis
Elsberry, MO



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Grasser [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:10 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery

I've always been told that the best deal is the T125. I don't know the
numbers though.

Mark Grasser
Balyntec
Marine Products, LLC
828-581-4601
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery

> FWIW, the T105 is rated 115min @ 75A; the T145 is rated 145min @ 75A.

> The

> prices above suggest you would be paying about 42% more for the T145s 
> and getting only 26% more capacity.
>

Is capacity increase linear?

Rush
Tucson, AZ
2000 Insight, 66.7lmpg, #4965
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
www.TEVA2.com 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Just this week I was quoted $116 for T-125's with the Universal
Terminal (round terminal with hole/bolt in middle). I think he said
about $100 for T-105's. Your price seems way high - I'm in NC, maybe
that makes a difference...

De



> gottdi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Got a price for two Trojans here local to me. Good? Bad? Excellent?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Glauser" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery


> I'm looking around for new batteries for my car. I put the T-875 into the
> calculator (http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/) and I get about 20
> mile range at 40mph in 1st gear (with Auburn Kodiak, 144V, RWD aerodinamic
> small car, ADC 9"). Is that close to what you're seeing with your setup? I
> always wonder how close to reality that calculator is.
>
> -Jon Glauser
> http://www.evalbum.com/555
>

In the evconvert calculator, there is no input for the gear ratios. 
Therefore its using the standard gear ratios that come with the vehicle. 
The one I choose from the list ranges from 7.5 to 9.5 to one ratios with a 
1st gear transmission ratio of 2.75:1 and a differential ratio of 3.31 to 
3.90:1.

Here is my results using T-875's at 144, 180 an 240 volts and T-145's at 180 
volts in 1st gear at 40 mph.

Using the evconvert calculator:

I get 7.2 miles at 144 volts of T-875's.
I get 10.9 miles at 180 volts of T-875's.
I get 16.7 miles at 240 volts of T-875's.
I get 30.8 miles at 180 volts of T-145's.

Now, I use the Uve's Calculator, where I can input my 19.495:1 gear ratio, 
the result is:

I get 111.8 miles at 180 volts of T-145's which would be 100% DOD.

AT 50% DOD this would be a estimate 55.9 miles if the energy of the battery 
is the same from 100% to 50% SOC.

I have gone 39.5 miles to 50% DOD, so this becomes about 16.4 miles 
difference to the estimate calculation.

Roland



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Don't use the Universal Terminal, the one with the hole in it. I had some of 
these that did not last a day. The post collapsed under the pressure of the 
torque battery clamps which was done to the specifications.

If you need to pull high ampere, it is best to use the large L battery post, 
that is about 5/8 inch thick, by 1 inch wide by 2 inches high you can get 
from U.S. Battery. Have a large contact area where you can bolt on a double 
wide two hole terminal lug using two 3/8 inch bolts torque to 35 foot lbs.

Roland








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deanne Mott" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery


> Just this week I was quoted $116 for T-125's with the Universal
> Terminal (round terminal with hole/bolt in middle). I think he said
> about $100 for T-105's. Your price seems way high - I'm in NC, maybe
> that makes a difference...
>
> De
>
>


> gottdi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Got a price for two Trojans here local to me. Good? Bad? Excellent?
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> 
> > In the evconvert calculator, there is no input for the gear ratios.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

I'm wondering if I'm using the calculator right.
I found my cars info:
1st :3.67
2nd :2.07
3rd :1.38
diff:3.73

Cd :0.36
Area:19.5

80% DOD

I put my Auburn Kodiak (which has a wrong max voltage of 120, should be
144.) and ADC 9". It doesnt seem to matter which battery I choose. If it
is a T-105 or T-145 I get >40 mile range at 40mph in 1st (though the RPM
is limited to 35mph. I just picked one data point for comparison). If I
put in any other battery I get 20-30 mile range. It's a very strong
contrast!

Does it really not matter which battery other than the T-105 or T-145 I use?
It's nice to see that Roland can show that the calculator is 29% too high
for his setup. Anyone else have real world data to compare to the
calculator?

-Jon Glauser
http://www.evalbum.com/555

<quote who="Roland Wiench">
>> > Now, I use the Uve's Calculator, where I can input my 19.495:1 gear
>> > ratio,
>> > the result is:
>> >
>> > I get 111.8 miles at 180 volts of T-145's which would be 100% DOD.
>> >
>> > AT 50% DOD this would be a estimate 55.9 miles if the energy of the
>> > battery
>> > is the same from 100% to 50% SOC.
>> >
>> > I have gone 39.5 miles to 50% DOD, so this becomes about 16.4 miles
>> > difference to the estimate calculation.
>> >
>> > Roland


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

Assuming you're using Uwe's calculator,

http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html

click on the "Battery Calculations" link and look at the table of the
batteries. Notice the column "Rsrv cpcty"--see how the capacity of the
Trojans are way higher than that of most everything else? And the
Peukert exponent is generally less? 

Also, when using this calculator, be *very* careful of the tire rolling
resistance parameter--the default is ".0015" which at first glance looks
right until you realize that typical rolling resistance is ".015"--a
factor of 10 different!

--Steve



> Jon Glauser wrote:
> > I'm wondering if I'm using the calculator right.
> > I found my cars info:
> > 1st :3.67
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

The EV calculator seems way off compared to what I'm
actually seeing. I put all my specs in at one point to
see what it spit out and I can tell you my actual amp
pull was less than it gave and the range is more than
it gave. Now granted I've done just about everything I
can to increase its efficiency and I'm doing right
about 200 watt hrs per mile from the pack according to
the emeter so it's using the power well.

My commute one way is 27 miles of less than ideal
freeway, lots of turns, elevation gain and drop (not
huge). On the flats I can cruise at about 75 amps, but
on some parts I have to pull more like 100 amps to
cruise, 150-200 amps on the steeper on ramps. I'm
doing about a 50% discharge according to the emeter to
go one way and I charge at my destination. When I get
there though, with an indicated 50%, the pack voltage
is sitting around 147 after just a few minutes so
voltage based I'm not even quite doing a 50%
discharge.

If I took side streets at 40mph instead I would
probably do it easily on 40% discharge.

It depends on so many factors, but thats my experience
thus far. And since I had a similar pack to you before
like I said, I only managed barely 3000 miles out of
the 30XHS's in two years. The T-875's I've already put
over 5,000 miles on since Dec 1st, so I'm almost
double the miles in 4 months and they are still going
strong.

Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC Conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"

-------------
>I'm looking around for new batteries for my car. I
put >the T-875 into
> the
>calculator (http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/)
and >I get about 20
>mile range at 40mph in 1st gear (with Auburn Kodiak,
>144V, RWD
> aerodinamic
>small car, ADC 9"). Is that close to what you're
seeing >with your
> setup? I
>always wonder how close to reality that calculator
is.
>
>-Jon Glauser
>http://www.evalbum.com/555


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*



> Ricky Suiter wrote:
> > The EV calculator seems way off compared to what I'm
> > actually seeing. I put all my specs in at one point to
> > see what it spit out and I can tell you my actual amp
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Trojan Battery*

I got a new set (16) of Trojan T-125 (same size as T145's, less power/range)
last year for $119.00 including tax and 80 mile delivery . I think you
should be able to get a better price. Have you checked with Trojan for other
distributors?
----- Original Message -----
From: "gottdi" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Trojan Battery


>
> Got a price for two Trojans here local to me. Good? Bad? Excellent?
>
> T-105 $133.68 ea. 12 = $1604.16 72 volt Pack With tall posts
> T-145 $189.93 ea. 12 = $2279.16 72 volt Pack With tall posts
>
> Pete : )
> --
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Trojan-Battery-tp16318226p16341258.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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