# Adapter Plates



## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

What grade Aluminum are people using for their motor to transmission adapter plates? I have found places that will make the plate for a pretty high price, and want to make it myself. I can get 6061 Aluminum 1/2 inch plate for about $65 and I have the tools to drill and cut it out, but is 6061 grade enough?


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## Fatboy (Oct 30, 2007)

6061-T6 is the stuff that aircraft are made from and for your purpose it is definately up to the task.

Fatboy


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I got mine from a friend that machines out foam molds.

Just plain old 1/2" plate works fine. 

The main force on the plate will be motor torque.

The secondary force will be gravity and neither is going to warp a 1/2" alum plate.


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

Pretty much any aluminium (aluminum) plate will do as long as you steer clear of the 1XXX series which are virtually pure alumunium.

6061 or 6063 is probably the most commonly available alloy in plate but some of the 5XXX series (i.e. 5086) are also very suitable. 5086 and 5052 are commonly used in New Zealand for manufacture of alloy boats. Most of these alloys have tensile strengths approaching that of grade 250 mild steel depending on the temper (i.e. T6) and have good corrosion resistance. 

As noted by FATBOY 6061-T6 is used in aircraft manufacture and in fact it is the material of choice for alloy wheels due to it's ductility and strength. This is the material I will use for my adaptor when the time comes. It is nice and easy to machine and gives a beautiful finish. If you are worried about corrosion you can get it anodised in some pretty cool colours (red, blue, gold etc.) for a minimal cost. If you are fitting bolts into tapped holes make sure you use a thread lubricant/antiseize to prevent corrosion locking the bolts in for all time.


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## Fatboy (Oct 30, 2007)

To add a follow up on Nicks post, ei: threaded holes, Try to use coarse threaded bolts as much as possible. They are not as liable to strip as a fine threaded bolt. For those areas where a really tight bolts are required try to use a thread insert.

Fatboy


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## Greenflight (Sep 13, 2007)

Yup, 1/2" 6061 is what I'm using. Works great.

I didn't thread any holes in my adaptor plate, for precisely that reason. I don't like threading steel bolts into aluminum. For all the bellhousing bolts, I drilled a clearance hole and put a nut and washer on the other side.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

For those of you who went to local machines shops for the work, what was the cost for the adapter plates and motor coupler? I am looking around for machine shops, and I want a ballpark price to compare. I am also going to try to machine shop in the Mechanical Engineering department in my college, but I am not getting my hopes up since so far I have been getting the "Deer in the Headlights" look from everyone I talk to about help on this project. I guess it scares them when a freshman asks questions about projects that's more complicated than a blinking LED.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

You can do the pattern work by making a template from heavy cardboard and then just having the shop cut it out.

The coupler doesn't have to be an expensive item either.
Some use the spring center from the original clutch disk. This really isn't necessary, as the spring center is needed on a ICEs, because of the crank shaft torsional pulses of each cylinder firing, not the initial start torque.

An electric motor has no pulses, so you can go with a solid connector.
I used 2 chain sprockets and a double wide chain to hook them together.
Cost was under $50.00.

The only machine work that you need for the plate is to have the outside cut to the shape of your pattern.
A center hole can be lathe cut. 
Expensive machining centers are not actually needed.

A friend is making an S-10 conversion and has CNC equipment in his shop.
The adapter plate he made is beautiful. Most of us have to do with a little less expense and still get the job done, when we are on a tight budget.

An adapter plate shouldn't run you over $200. in my opine.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

So the prices aren't that bad. I was going to make a template out of plywood and bring that to a shop. But I am going to need a motor coupling HUB that will connect to the drive plate. I have an auto tranny and I need to keep the torque converter, so the motor connects to what Honda calls a drive plate, and all that really is, is a lightweight flywheel.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I didn't realize, that you were going to try the automatic trans route.

The connector for that will be a little more difficult, as the flywheel (plate) will have to center the converter also. If it doesn't do it well, you stand a chance of misalignment on the pump bushing/seal.

Why the decision to go auto?

What car are you using?


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I am using a 1996 Honda Civic LX. It has the auto tranny in it, and it is in real great condition (No rust!) and only cost $600. 239,000 Miles and still going strong with the ICE. I am going the auto trans route because its what I have to work with, and I am the only one in my house that drives a stick and the only way that my parents even let me start this project was if it was an auto. Also the auto seems to have better gear ratios for my motor, 2nd gear can get me up to 55 in theory.

I have been trying to find generic hubs or something but so far I am coming up empty. One idea I have it to take a Sawz-All to the ICE crankshaft and get the hub from that since I doubt the engine is sellable with 239,000 miles on it. Then have it modified/welded to fit the motor shaft and then have the plates and spacers built around that.

Yeah, I have to make sure everything is aligned and the hub is balanced. I don't think it would be too hard, but then again I don't have the engine out yet to look at the setup. (The car is still being driven daily by my dad until the weather is better and I can spend a few weeks to get the whole thing down.)


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

The shaft on my motor is rather long and annoying and it needs to be trimmed down anyways, so my idea is to get a brand new hax saw blade and then cut off the shaft where I want it.

I was thinking of hooking the motor to a 12 volt deep cycle and take the blade to it while it was spinning for the best cut. And less work on my part too. (Of couse everything would be secured before the mayhem commenced)

A local machine shop was going to charge me about $50 just to cut the shaft, so doing it myself would be better.

I am in the process of designing a coupling and plate, and I was qouted at about $200 for the coupling and no one had a clue about the plate. I can get the raw material for the coupling at $20, but the plate was coming close to $150 in metal. My goal is to get the plate and coupler down for about $300, so who knows how far that will go.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

you might want to just go the saws all route,if your blade binds while that motor is spinning even on 12 volts i am sure we will all hear the OUCH !!


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

joseph3354 said:


> you might want to just go the saws all route,if your blade binds while that motor is spinning even on 12 volts i am sure we will all hear the OUCH !!


That just crossed my mind, but then again I can hook up my controller and set the speed myself...

What have people been making their couplings out of when they connect to their flywheels? The local machine shop said that aluminum would work, and I found an EV on EV Album that has almost the same guts on my project and they used aluminum, so would it work?


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

iwould think steel woud be best for the coupler itself,how much torque is your motor capable of?


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

these guys have been doing conversions for over 20 years,their adaptors are expensive,but the couplers appear to be steel. 

http://www.electroauto.com/index.html


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## Fatboy (Oct 30, 2007)

No hack saw, use a 4½" cut-off wheel. It would be much quicker and give better results. Wear googles.

Steel for the adapter hub.

Fatboy


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

The motor is a K99-4007 which is the same as the K91-4003, but has a different shaft. The torque curves go up to 50 ft-lbs, but I am not sure of its max torque.

The raw cost of the steel vs aluminum is about the same, so steel sounds like the way to go. I picked up some different keys for my shaft today and I am waiting for the 7/8 keyway hubs to arrive before I can get another qoute on the system.


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> these guys have been doing conversions for over 20 years,their adaptors are expensive,but the couplers appear to be steel.
> 
> http://www.electroauto.com/index.html


They are steel. Just think of that hardened steel key working against that softer aluminum hub. Maybe in a small application it would work but my warp11 Mustang is heavy and would probably destroy it so i'm for steel


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

O'Zeeke said:


> They are steel. Just think of that hardened steel key working against that softer aluminum hub. Maybe in a small application it would work but my warp11 Mustang is heavy and would probably destroy it so i'm for steel


When the local shop told me that aluminum would work, I had envisioned putting everything together, and then recording my first run just to have the coupler stripped the first time I went to use it, so steel is definately the way to go. 

My design is sort of a mix betweem the Electro Automotive and CANEV adapter systems, but I can't use those companies because the motor is not normal, and no one has done a Gen 6 Civic yet, or even an automatic transmission so it's all new territory. And I dont have $850 plus the shipping of the transmission.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

yeah,you got your hands full on this one. 
i dont understand why the adaptor packages cost so much,i ynderstand that the equipment to make them is expensive,but if youve been doing it for twenty years i would think your prices would come down just a little bit....


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## Fatboy (Oct 30, 2007)

joseph3354 said:


> yeah,you got your hands full on this one.
> i dont understand why the adaptor packages cost so much,i ynderstand that the equipment to make them is expensive,but if youve been doing it for twenty years i would think your prices would come down just a little bit....


Supply and demand, why sell your goods for $500 when people will pay $1000. Only when the number of suppliers are plentiful will the competition bring the prices down. Plus the product liability is a factor. The coupling fails and an accident occurs. Bring on the attorneys.

Fatboy


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> yeah,you got your hands full on this one.
> i dont understand why the adaptor packages cost so much,i ynderstand that the equipment to make them is expensive,but if youve been doing it for twenty years i would think your prices would come down just a little bit....


I was told by electroauto that it takes 12 hours to design the motor ring, adaptor plate, hub, and taper lock and another 12 hours to machine it. Plus what Fatboy said and that may explain some of the cost involved. If they dont have your trans in their library of patterns (as they didn't have my mustang) they pay the shipping both ways because it potentially opens up more projects for them and there are MILLIONS of mustangs around. I know its expensive but after dumping 10K into this project i figured an extra $200-300 is worth it for steel


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## Fatboy (Oct 30, 2007)

It takes 24 hours?
Maybe for the very first one but after that I think that's a little excessive. 

Fatboy


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Fatboy said:


> It takes 24 hours?
> Maybe for the very first one but after that I think that's a little excessive.
> 
> Fatboy


Could be, but thats about $30/ hour including the materials(about $750) and the shops around where i am wanted a whole lot more and didnt know if they could even do it.


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## Fatboy (Oct 30, 2007)

O'Zeeke said:


> Could be, but thats about $30/ hour including the materials(about $750) and the shops around where i am wanted a whole lot more and didnt know if they could even do it.


Probably due to the liability. Even the little old guy in his garage should be able to machine these.

Fatboy


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Fatboy said:


> Probably due to the liability. Even the little old guy in his garage should be able to machine these.
> 
> Fatboy


Fatboy you are probably right, but when you think about the grade school dropout that cuts my grass 3 times a month making $120/mo and takes 15 minutes, thats = $160/hr and all he has is a $2000 mower...........thats why i fired him and do it myself now


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

When I make a part for someone that I may be able to sell to others, once the tooling is done, I don't charge the original person anything, for using his parts for measuring etc. to complete the tooling.

I also give him one of the first parts to test for me as far as fit, etc.

The plate doesn't need to be CNCd to make it good and usable.
It is nice sure, but a little overkill.

The coupler you need can be made from steel and not need the old crank end cut off the engine.
It just has to be bored to fit your shaft and have a flange area machined, that matches the original end of the crank.

Machining this all in one setup, will guarantee a true running flexplate for your auto trans. The keyway can be machined after this.

It shouldn't take much over a couple hours, at the most, to complete it.

Shop around a bit.....


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## Cornelius (Sep 15, 2007)

Steve Clunn at Grassroots EV makes his own adapter plates. He has a video CD for $10 that shows the process.

http://www.grassrootsev.com/


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## helixev (Nov 7, 2007)

TheSGC said:


> For those of you who went to local machines shops for the work, what was the cost for the adapter plates and motor coupler? I am looking around for machine shops, and I want a ballpark price to compare.


I ended up paying about 2.5k for mine... in retrospect it would have been cheaper to ship my tranny to some place like electro automotive and have them make it.
Of course if you design it it will be much cheaper to have someone machine it for you. I had the shop design and fabricate as well as make a motor mount.. and it's not perfect, I had to take the transmission out a couple weeks ago so they could remachine the hub which was off by .007" and causing a vibration in the flywheel.


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Cornelius said:


> Steve Clunn at Grassroots EV makes his own adapter plates. He has a video CD for $10 that shows the process.
> 
> http://www.grassrootsev.com/


Hey Cornelius, ive seen that dvd, but i think he uses existing pulleys and drills and machines them for the hub. I think he just uses a keyshaft and setscrew. Electroauto says that these will eventually fail because of the steel key working against the softer hub. Anybody had this setup? Any problems?


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

helixev said:


> I ended up paying about 2.5k for mine... in retrospect it would have been cheaper to ship my tranny to some place like electro automotive and have them make it.


To bad you didn't live next door to me . It would have been way cheaper !! J.W.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

helixev said:


> I ended up paying about 2.5k for mine... in retrospect it would have been cheaper to ship my tranny to some place like electro automotive and have them make it.
> Of course if you design it it will be much cheaper to have someone machine it for you. I had the shop design and fabricate as well as make a motor mount.. and it's not perfect, I had to take the transmission out a couple weeks ago so they could remachine the hub which was off by .007" and causing a vibration in the flywheel.


That's a lot of money! I hope that remachining was free after spending that much..............I have my design almost done pat, I am just waiting for a piece to arrive so I can finish the AutoCad designs. I was given a qoute of $100 to machine the hub piece, and I have esitmated the aluminum for the plate to be about $180 for the three plate setup, but no qoute on the drilling of the plates. My dad has a machinist at his work that owes him a few favors, so when the design is completed we are going to see what he can do. $2.5K is my whole budget for this EV, and have only spent $1550 so far and have eveything but adapter system, wire and batteries.


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## helixev (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah it was expensive.
It wasn't just a simple plate though because I had this long shaft which was splined on the end and they used the splines for the hub.
It still does chatter if I go up around 5000rpms... I think the clutch is unhappy at that speed...


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Someone mentioned using the double roller chain to couple two sprockets. I hadn't even thought about that. One of my 7" forklift motors has that setup already in place to drive the pump. Maybe I can reuse it. Seems like that method would allow a little wiggle room when it comes connecting from the motor to the transmission. Norm


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

That was me, on my Yugo.

It is easy to use and has been just fine for over 3400 miles.

As for the key and setscrews loosening up, there has been no problem there either.

I have an inspection hole, that I can use for a long Allen wrench, and it has not loosened or moved a bit. I lock-tited it also.

Since the hub is steel and the key is steel, I think it will outlast the car...


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