# China Warning!!!



## GeoMetric (Aug 13, 2010)

Lisa <[email protected]> 







12:21 AM (7 hours ago)


























to me 




















*Official Notice*​ *To whom it may concern:
*​ I am *Lisa Wu*, the Oversea Sales Manger of General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. *Ms.Alice Chen* was a Saleswoman of our company, I was her supervisor. I am sending you this Official Notice on behalf of General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. Last month *Ms.Alice Chen* got fired by our company because she committed a series of business frauds and misconducts, such as asking customers for transferring money to her personal account, demanding commissions and shipping under quality products to customers. 

*Our company’s attorney, Mr. Si, is conducting an investigation along with local Police Department against Ms.Alice Chen for above mentioned misconducts and business frauds. 
*​ By the way, *Ms.Alice Chen* signed a Confidential and Non-Disclosure Agreement with our company. All of our customer’s information is confidential and our company’s properties. She has no right to disclose and use these confidential information for other company. 

If she contacts with you from other company, for example, Shenzhen Resky Electronics Co.,LTD in Shenzhen, she is committing again a misconduct by violating this agreement. You will be in high risk to be involved into a business fraud or other legal issues. 

I highly recommend you to disregard all of her emails. General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. will do its best to protect your interest and serve you with the best products and best service.

Please contact me if you have any more questions. Thanks for your corporation and for your business.

Should any questions, please feel free to contact me. I would like to help you.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.
Wish you all the best,​ Lisa



Manager of overseas sales department
General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd.
Address: Fl. 6, Bld. 2, Chaohuilou Hi-tech Industry Park, Dalang, Longhua, Baoan District, Shenzhen 518109, P.R. China
Tel: 86-755-81762726/27/25 ext.629, 
Mobile: 86-13428917743
Fax: 86-755-81762723
E-mail: [email protected] [email protected]
Gmail: [email protected]
Website: www.gebattery.com.cn www.gebattery.co
MSN: [email protected]
Skype: gebatterylisa

*We can not speak S_ccess without U. Thanks for your support in advance!*


----------



## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

I'm still getting emails from Cherry Yang at Victpower. Are batteries considered an impulse purchase in China?


----------



## GeoMetric (Aug 13, 2010)

*More Drama from China, new email:*

alice-chen <[email protected]> 







1:18 AM (6 hours ago)


























to me 








My dear friend,

This is Alice from Resky in China. Maybe you will receive a letter from Lisa (GEB), which is my last company.
This is a letter I want to state all the truth here to my sincerely friends, as I have left GEB, so I am not supplier for you temporary. All the things are random lies and falsehoods from GEB. 
Why I left that company? For I have a client, who ordered some batteries from us, and then when received the batteries, the clients found many problems, lower capacity as negotiated, the performance of the battery cell is not stable, at last result in the cycle life is very much lower than promised. So the customer complained GEB and needed them to compensate or return the battery pack back to them. So I went to talk with our manager and boss, for they are the trading company, and they regard profit as their first and their company’s value. But I am not agreed with their solution, so I want to be responsible for my every clients. 
Within about 2 months’ negotiation, they also don’t give me reply and solutions. So I decided to leave that company, and I want to find a factory, who’s value could regard customer orientation. So I join this company-Shenzhen Resky Electronics Co.,Ltd. This company is registered legally, not as they mentioned as fraud. Their core value is customer first, including strict quality examined before sending every products.
I am really so confused and sad why they slander me. It’s free for me to choose which company worked with. Is that right?
I hope you could understand me and respect my personality. I am a honest girl in the daily life and also in the business. Most of my clients became my friend, so it could say what kind of person I am. We trust we could provide our clients better service.
Thanks for reading. Wish you have a nice weekend.

Their letter will be written like this:

To whom it may concern:

I am Lisa Wu, the Oversea Sales Manger of General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. Ms.Alice Chen was a Saleswoman of our company, I was her supervisor. I am sending you this Official Notice on behalf of General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. Last month Ms.Alice Chen got fired by our company because she committed a series of business frauds and misconducts, such as asking customers for transferring money to her personal account, demanding commissions and shipping under quality products to customers.

Our company’s attorney, Mr. Si, is conducting an investigation along with local Police Department against Ms.Alice Chen for above mentioned misconducts and business frauds.

By the way, Ms.Alice Chen signed a Confidential and Non-Disclosure Agreement with our company. All of our customer’s information is confidential and our company’s properties. She has no right to disclose and use these confidential information for other company.

If she contacts with you from other company, for example, Shenzhen Resky Electronics Co.,LTD in Shenzhen, she is committing again a misconduct by violating this agreement. You will be in high risk to be involved into a business fraud or other legal issues.

I highly recommend you to disregard all of her emails. General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. will do its best to protect your interest and serve you with the best products and best service.

Please contact me if you have any more questions. Thanks for your corporation and for your business.


 *Shenzhen Resky Electronics Battery Co., Ltd
*Address: C bulding, the second subdistrict office industrial park, bantian, longgang district, shenzhen city.
Tel: 86-755-66808783 
Mobile: 86-13530058480
*Email: [email protected]
**Skype: alice.china0114*
MSN: [email protected]
*Website: www.szresky.com*









With best regards,

Alice Chen


----------



## GeoMetric (Aug 13, 2010)

Thank God I did not buy from these sales reps or GEB. Warning, when buying from Chinese trading companies or manufactures use DD and tons of caution.

Happy Easter!

Ron


----------



## WarpedOne (Jun 26, 2009)

China drama. Still more to come ...


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Hey, they also sell e-cigarettes!

http://www.szresky.com/index.php?ac=article&at=list&tid=204


----------



## dyxy888 (Apr 7, 2013)

PStechPaul said:


> Hey, they also sell e-cigarettes!
> 
> http://www.szresky.com/index.php?ac=article&at=list&tid=204


Working in a same company, why attack each other so ungent???

I respect all of my China battery friends!


Before your purchase action, I strongly suggest buy more sample form differ supplier in China, and do enough test, which one is good enough, and people who will share benift with you.

________________________________________ 



Sincerely, 
Alex Song 
HETER ELECTRONICS GROUP CO., LTD 
PHONE:+86-157 2568 9998 
TEL: +86-632-5292912 
E-mail:[email protected] 
[email protected] 
SKYPE:dyxy888 
MSN:[email protected] 
Website: http://www.heterbattery.com


----------



## Lipo Louis (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm still waiting for a lot of a123 batteries from victpower..... I'll let you people know about when I get them.... Or not


----------



## ellweber (Jun 3, 2009)

*My experience described here.*

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...n-shenzhen-victpower-technology-co-84762.html

In summary, don't expect to get what you pay for.


----------



## Lipo Louis (Oct 29, 2012)

Well I did before, 28s3p a123 pack was pretty OK, the cells I checked are also good, I now expect 9x 7s3p. Used taxi bus batteries, number of cycles unknown


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I always preach to everyone: 

1-Only buy from a local source. 

2-Ask if they are in stock. Do NOT pay on a "future" shipment they are waiting for.

3-Any deal that seems really good, is probably a scam. Old cells, used cells, abused cells. Samples are usually good, the shipment is different. We used to call that "Bait and switch".

4-If possible, only buy from someone you know, or at least has a warehouse in the USA. (Even then see rule number two above.)

Miz


----------



## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Somewhat related to this discussion.

As it is, lots of people talk to me about the state of the industry. One of the things that came up needs to be well known.
A US company that sells Chinese-made prismatic cells told me about serious quality issues, including that the cells are swelling up still in the crate! 

I am torn between wanting to prevent users from buying such cells, and wanting to avoid receiving backlash from the cell manufacturer for exposing their quality issues. Therefore, I will not name the cell manufacturer nor the vendor. 

All I can do is to repeat the advice you read above: buy from a reputable source, in your own country or continent.


----------



## gebatterylisawu (Apr 16, 2013)

Official Announcement
To whom it may concern:

I am Lisa Wu, Sales Manager of the General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. Ms. Alice Chen was a Saleswoman of our company. I post this Official Announcement here on behalf of General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. 

In response to Ms. Alice Chen’s e-mail message previously posted at this website by Ron, I am disclosing one of evidences that GEB received from her previous customers. After two months investigation by our company’s legal office, we have been collecting many complains about Ms. Alice Chen’s business frauds and misconducts. Here is one of proves that we received from her previous customers: a Western Union Transaction Record sent by her previous customer in Russia. 










Please pay attention to the red circle that I marked. The Russia word получатель means receiver or beneficiary in English. “Li Chen” is the Chinese Name of Alice Chen, showing on her Chinese ID card. This is a proof that Ms. Alice Chen asked her previous customers for transferring money to her personal account. The payment through Western Union to our company’s receiver is posted at our official Website (http://www.gebattery.com.cn/geb/EN/contact.asp?ID=31):

The identification card number of receiver: 4305 2319 8203 2580 27
The first and last name of receiver: Shuqin (first name) Deng (last name)

The above-mentioned evidence supports GEB’s statement. We will continue to collect more information about her business frauds and misconducts during her work at our company. In order to protect its customers’ interest, GEB would refund any payment that you made to her personal account and under quality products that she shipped to you, if you provide us with verified records and related documents. Currently, our company’s attorney, Mr. Si, is conducting an investigation along with local Police Department against Ms. Alice Chen for more misconducts and business frauds that she made during her work at our company. You are welcome to provide us with any evidence and proves, such as email, transaction records and etc, to help our legal officers.

For any questions or more detail information, please feel free to contact me. I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Wish you all the best,

Lisa Wu
Manager of overseas sales department
General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd.
Address: Fl. 6, Bld. 2, Chaohuilou Hi-tech Industry Park, Dalang, Longhua, Baoan District, Shenzhen 518109, P.R. China
Tel: 86-755-81762726/27/25 ext.629, 
Mobile: 86-13428917743
Fax: 86-755-81762723
E-mail: [email protected] [email protected]
Gmail: [email protected]
Website: www.gebattery.com.cn www.gebattery.co 
MSN: [email protected]
Skype: gebatterylisa


----------



## Kevin Bennett (Apr 24, 2013)

Oh I am embarrassed to post this but I have to add my voice to the "DO NOT BUY FROM GE Battery" list. They promised grade A cells in pristine condition and delivered zero volts, badly damaged, high impedance, and high self discharge rate. Complaints to Adam Tang and others including a private message on this very thread to Lisa resulted in nothing. I would not recommend buying ANYTHING from them! You can save yourself a lot of anticipation by simply dropping your cash in the office paper shredder. It's a lot faster and the result is the same.


I'll pile these with the defective *Shenzhen Victpower* cells that I have from last year.

Too bad real A123 cells cannot be found anymore. I had to move on.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Guys, the *only* time you can safely do business with a Chinese company is when it has just as much to lose from screwing you over as the (all too common) inverse case. Unless you are buying a large enough quantity of cells - and using letters of credit to do so - you have *zero* leverage if something goes wrong. 

The only incentive a manufacturer has to even send you anything at all is to be able to prove to their local Communist party official that they did, indeed, increase their region's economic output by delivering goods for export. Whether you are a satisfied customer or not is irrelevant; it's all about pumping up the GDP numbers for the quarter. When you complain in a blog or on a forum about how you got screwed over, and people stop wiring money to the company, then they simply cancel their current fictitious name and register a new one. I mean, it's not like the names Shenzhen Victpower or General Electronics Battery (GE Battery? Seriously?) have any commercial value whatsoever, and neither will the new company names they come up with.

Again, the only way to successfully buy products from China is to buy enough that a letter of credit will be accepted as payment. That ain't gonna happen for a 100 or even 1000 cell order. For much more on navigating the perils of Chinese outsourcing/procurement I highly recommend the book Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler.


----------



## Kevin Bennett (Apr 24, 2013)

Tesseract said:


> Guys, the *only* time you can safely do business with a Chinese company is when it has just as much to lose from screwing you over as the (all too common) inverse case. Unless you are buying a large enough quantity of cells - and using letters of credit to do so - you have *zero* leverage if something goes wrong.


Agreed. Lesson learned. Just here to caution/warn others.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

And one more addition, NEVER EVER EVER USE WESTERN UNION FOR TRANSACTIONS. You have no recourse through Western Union. NONE.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Kevin Bennett said:


> Agreed. Lesson learned. Just here to caution/warn others.


Yep, and I'm glad you posted your experience. The point I am trying to drive home here is that your experience wasn't unusual or a fluke, it is what anyone who tries to do the same thing - buy cells "direct from the manufacturer" - should expect.

The book I recommended above gives you real insight into the Chinese cultural mindset that leads to them acting in ways that most Westerners would consider counterproductive and unethical.


----------



## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

gebatterylisawu said:


> Official Announcement
> To whom it may concern:
> 
> I am Lisa Wu, Sales Manager of the General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. Ms. Alice Chen was a Saleswoman of our company. I post this Official Announcement here on behalf of General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd.


Lisa, you should never publicly post documents exposing names and addresses of customers. Did you get permission from Mr. Shaposhnikov to post his personal info on public forum?


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Guys, the *only* time you can safely do business with a Chinese company is when it has just as much to lose from screwing you over as the (all too common) inverse case. Unless you are buying a large enough quantity of cells - and using letters of credit to do so - you have *zero* leverage if something goes wrong.
> 
> The only incentive a manufacturer has to even send you anything at all is to be able to prove to their local Communist party official that they did, indeed, increase their region's economic output by delivering goods for export. Whether you are a satisfied customer or not is irrelevant; it's all about pumping up the GDP numbers for the quarter. When you complain in a blog or on a forum about how you got screwed over, and people stop wiring money to the company, then they simply cancel their current fictitious name and register a new one. I mean, it's not like the names Shenzhen Victpower or General Electronics Battery (GE Battery? Seriously?) have any commercial value whatsoever, and neither will the new company names they come up with.
> 
> Again, the only way to successfully buy products from China is to buy enough that a letter of credit will be accepted as payment. That ain't gonna happen for a 100 or even 1000 cell order. For much more on navigating the perils of Chinese outsourcing/procurement I highly recommend the book Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler.



Funny thing is US companies seem to have ripped off more people on this forum than Chinese companies

Of course that is due to a "few bad apples"


----------



## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Duncan said:


> Funny thing is US companies seem to have ripped off more people on this forum than Chinese companies
> 
> Of course that is due to a "few bad apples"


It has been my experience that such things are due to "a disgruntled employee". Companies must search diligently for such "disgruntled employees" who make so much money for the companies.


----------



## gebatterylisawu (Apr 16, 2013)

Dear All, 

This is Adam Tang, from GE Battery Company. 

First, I apologize to Mr. Kevin Bennett. We shipped A123 20Ah polymer cells to Kevin, some of them were complained with defects. 

Second, A123 20Ah polymer cells were not manufactured by GE Battery Company, but by A123 factory located in China, Changzhou. GE Battery produce high energy polymer cells with its brand name. However, GE Battery company is a representative of A123 products in China. Therefore, the defects that Kevin complained are not defects on GE Battery products. 

Third, GE Battery would take care all after sales service. However, A123 Company was bankrupted in last year as we know, there are no any more A123 20Ah polymer cells from its factory and warehouse. After receiving complain from Kevin, we did all our best to found replacement, but only short tab cells. So we welded tabs on battery terminals and tested them to make sure they have the same quality as the long tab cells. Then we will ship them to Kevin. 

Once again, we are working on the issue that Kevin mentioned here.

With my best regards,

Adam Tang

Marketing Manager

General Electronics Battery Co., Ltd. 
Address: Fl. 6, Bld. 2, Chaohuilou Hi-tech Industry Park, Dalang, Longhua, Baoan District, Shenzhen 518109, P.R. China
Tel: 86-755-81762726 Ext.624 
Mobile: 86-13652423024 
Fax: 86-755-81762723 
Skype: adam19851030 
MSN: [email protected]
Web: www.gebattery.com.cn www.gebattery.co
E-mail: [email protected] 
[email protected]
[email protected]


----------



## Kevin Bennett (Apr 24, 2013)

gebatterylisawu said:


> Dear All,
> 
> This is Adam Tang, from GE Battery Company.
> 
> ...


All news to me. No I will not accept cells with the tabs epoxied on or the tabs riddled with holes. No I will not pay for Grade A cells and get zero volts, heavily damaged, high impedance cells swept off the floor and dumped in boxes.

All I need is what I paid for, namely good 20Ah cells. If genuine A123 cannot be found, sent me samples to test and qualify and we'll think about it.


----------



## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Duncan said:


> Funny thing is US companies seem to have ripped off more people on this forum than Chinese companies
> "


I am curious on a CHINA WARNING thread that someone would state that domestic have "ripped" off someone. Neither agree /disagree with that.
I will say this the "china" companies that have done domestic business have a poor history IMHO
Example
Real Force Energy (RFE) shanghi has jacked me personally on warranty and sales.
so let us start there
*China* Warning (jacked someone) companies
RFE
Ebay sellers (from China)
Winston battery (china) 
vic power shezan/via aliexpress(china)
*Domestic*
PIS
third party importer

you can add to the count /comparison


----------



## vidmaster89 (Feb 27, 2011)

I was ordering those A123 look-a-likes a year ago also. I decided it was too big of a risk, and gradually started to think more about quality, less about the price. I mean, what good are cells that barely do 200 cycles, give voltage drop like lead or are of bad quality (recycled/shitty quality from the factory)? 

Getting screwed by the chinese isn't really anything new, it has been here for over ten years. If you don't know about it, you've asked the wrong people. There are honest ones, that guarantee their product, but why take the risk when often there is an easier&more expensive&overall better way to get the cells from your country/continent. Imho, don't buy your cells for cheap, buy the ones you can live with and use everyday.

Sorry for opening up on this subject, I just got irritated when checking new topics concerning battery tech and this is the first thing that popped up. It's good that people are warned of bad deals/scumbags like Paul Zigoras, but warning people about chinese battery deals/A123 Rip offs/factory rejects, does anybody do their homework or think anymore?


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

If that's Chinese culture, to screw everyone over every chance they get, they're not very bright. Sure this can go on for a while but with the advent of the internet, it's game over quickly I would think. And making a few fast bucks isn't going to do any good long term, only give them a black eye and make it harder for legitimate companies to grow a customer base.


----------



## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> If that's Chinese culture, .


In a country where there is questionable baby formula and pigs in a river I always reserve my opinion of following: CHINA EBAY Sellers, forum posters, forum venders. I have found product(quality,specification, workmanship detail, warranty, customer support, etc.) issues that bring a distant seller into question. Search Aliexpress for product and I come up with lacking details and specification as with EBAY.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> If that's Chinese culture,


So why have more people on this forum been ripped off by American companies than Chinese companies?

Is that American Culture??


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

How many American companies? You referring to James I think his name was that was a big thing a few years back? He's the only American I can think of.


----------



## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> How many American companies? You referring to James I think his name was that was a big thing a few years back? He's the only American I can think of.


I personally got ripped off by EV Components (James) and Jim Husted (Hi Torque Electric). And we're not talking about a few dollars. Never had any issues with Chinese companies.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

CroDriver said:


> I personally got ripped off by EV Components (James) and Jim Husted (Hi Torque Electric). And we're not talking about a few dollars. Never had any issues with Chinese companies.


Your issue with Jim still hasn't been resolved? Thats disappointing.


----------



## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

rochesterricer said:


> Your issue with Jim still hasn't been resolved? Thats disappointing.


He never responded to my calls or e-mails. He simply disappeared. 

We have a saying here. "It is on his soul"


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

My Chinese experience was buying 12 Headways. They came with 3 above 2.5 volts and charged up fine. The rest were between 1.9 and .3 volts and were DOA. After three-four emails to the Ebay seller, I understood I was screwed. He always promised to make it right, but took no action. He never stated anything bad, just refused to exchange/warranty the cells.
"We sell no bad cell". "Our cell all tested". 

I bought another 12 from a lady in Canada. All were first class and nice cells.

My only other issue was with a Chinese company that had a warehouse in the USA. They promised cells to ship by weeks end. Six weeks later they got shipped. They all were slightly different colors and states of charge.
My pack has a miserable sag and even sets off my BMS with a 15 second full throttle accel when just off the charger. From what I can tell there are about 10 strong cells, 4 miserable cells and the rest strung out in between.

I am hoping some year to spring up another source other than China.
Where their definition of a "Happy deal" is one where they made a ton of money and did not have to comply with the contracted conditions. It is a good business practice with them.

Miz


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

My China experience

I bought 12 cells from Headway as samples - one died and was replaced free of charge,
I bought the rest of my cells (82) - all OK
Very good service, very good cells

As soon as I get some more money - I will buy more cells

I have bought a number of cheap things from China - including a lathe
The lathe needed to be rebuilt - stripped adjusted and correctly re-torqued and has worked fine since
The bikes I bought in the USA needed the same

Some of the stuff has been junk - but it was very cheap junk!


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

mizlplix said:


> My Chinese experience was buying 12 Headways. They came with 3 above 2.5 volts and charged up fine. The rest were between 1.9 and .3 volts and were DOA. After three-four emails to the Ebay seller, I understood I was screwed. He always promised to make it right, but took no action. He never stated anything bad, just refused to exchange/warranty the cells.
> "We sell no bad cell". "Our cell all tested".


This story is certainly odd, because Ebay provides a very strong and easy buyer protection; in fact, Ebay is the only _really_ safe place to buy (unfortunately, it's not safe to sell there).

Practically, you open a case, and Ebay takes the money from the seller and gives it back to you, almost automatically. This is a frequent source of frauds---but from the buyer side, because Ebay always trusts the buyer or "buyer".

That said, I have over *200 transactions* with Chinese sellers on Ebay and have really been screwed only *ONCE*. The seller of course tried to play dumb when contacted directly, but after opening a case in Buyer Protection, it took about one hour to get full refund. BTW the value of the fraud was only $10, but I still wanted to make it a case.

Besides the one clear fraud case, I have a few (<5 of 200) low-quality / useless quality product cases. In every one of them, I have got either full or partial refund or a new product, _without_ taking the case into Buyer Protection.

Ebay is clearly safe. Paying with credit card should be relatively safe too; you can always contact with the card issuer that should be able to return the money. They may ask some proof however.

It just seems that people, for some odd reason, are reluctant to use their rights, even in the case of relatively large frauds with valuable goods and an easy-to-use, automated fraud reporting and rectification system such as in Ebay. Instead, they use the same or more time to cry on the internet forums about "the Chinese"; and, the real fraud artist never gets caught, enjoying your money.


----------



## Arthas (Jun 28, 2012)

It's sad but true. Things like this always happen here. Are there some guys undermining each other's work in your country?


----------



## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> He never responded to my calls or e-mails. He simply disappeared.
> 
> We have a saying here. "It is on his soul"


Domestic ripoff happen and sometimes there is recourse. China sellers has no small claims court here in Texas


----------



## T1 Terry (Jan 29, 2011)

After being ripped off by a US shipping company with ship in it's name, raising a complaint with PayPal that went no where, the shipping mob then tried to scam even more money and it had to be paid through Western Union.... yeah, right. Between rip off freight charging and dodgy company practices and companies suddenly no longer existing, after they have your money, I much prefer to deal with China than the US, you at least stand some sort of chance dealing with the Chinese 

T1 Terry


----------



## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

Note that even eBay won't help you if you don't file your complaint in time. The seller often knows this and will stall you; you need to aggressively file the complaint just in case.


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

njloof said:


> Note that even eBay won't help you if you don't file your complaint in time. The seller often knows this and will stall you; you need to aggressively file the complaint just in case.


Exactly! This is clearly the usual strategy.

It also appears that while Ebay is very safe due to the efficient buyer protection system, and direct credit card is somewhat safe, Paypal is the worst of the three; it does not offer the Ebay buyer protection, while still applying high Paypal fees (nearly what Paypal+Ebay together cost), and apparently some credit card companies deny any service due to the fact that Paypal was used inbetween, and instead they want you to use the Paypal service, which unfortunately is nonexistent.


----------



## T1 Terry (Jan 29, 2011)

Ebay and PayPal are part of the same company. The EBay protection is via PayPal, well it is in Aust anyway. PayPal can only help if it is actually a product you have purchased, not a service, so if the seller is just an agent who buys the product with your money, then ships it to you, they can not or will not help, that is how the shipping company in the US get araound it and I'm guessing a number of other suppliers as well.
The list must say that they have it in stock, that means they own it now and are going to sell it to you, not just a go between. The listing must clearly state exactly what you are going to receive, dimensions included, things like solar panel output or battery capacity carry no weight, but the physical dimension do when it comes to argueing if the product is not as listed.
the listing must say the product is in as new condition, clear of any flaws, that way seconds, used or damage product can be rejected.
They claim a language barrier problem to fob you off, or they are looking into it etc, lodge a complaint with PayPal as soon as you feel something is not right, do not cancel it till you are absolutely happy you have what you paid for or your money back in your account, not that is on it's way.
Do not let them close a case unless you are happy with the out come, take a screen dump of every comunication and save it in a seperate file, sending these proof of comunications to Paypal forces their hand and they must act. The catch ones are where they post an item free but you must pay return shipping, registered, so a proof of signature says they received it, often the cost is prohibitive

T1 Terry


----------



## Lipo Louis (Oct 29, 2012)

I finally received my refund of 3300 usd today from victpower. Yes !


----------



## Electron Power (Jan 2, 2013)

This DOES seem to support my own personal theory that chinese companies, who now supply close to 80% of the american consumer products market, are indeed bringing down the status quo (if that is the proper way to state it). According to MY logic anyways, the ramifications of this sort of business model can ONLY result in NEGATIVE [or even catastrophic] consequenses - on the states, AND the rest of the globe, INCLUDING china itself , once the "backlash" gets into full swing! For a few (a few thousand I suppose, when you are talking chinese) to become filthy-rich, via these not-so-honerable practices, the entire human race will pay dearly - once the initial 10-20 year "honeymoon" period expires. It's a classic case of get-rich-quickly-right-now, and [I apologize, but it simply cannot be stated properly without actually using the word - I really hope that the mods can understand, and let this one pass] damn the consequenses! The way I see it, there are going to be many. And none of them will be good ones!

This is not to say that 100% of american companies are legit either. Take for example the hybrid [to plug-in] conversion companies. There is currently a fued going on here that almost EXACTLY mirrors the case being discussed in this thread, only they are [registered as, anyways] US companies. Please forgive me if my memory not correct, but I believe the company's name is "plug-in supply", and the "disgruntled" individual's name is Robb Protheroe. I'm not 100% sure this is the one I read about several months ago - could be a different one entirely!

Aside from tehcnical manuals, I'm not really a book reader. But the one referred to in the previous post that supposedly describes chinese business modeling, practices, and ethics, looks like something that EVERYONE who purchases chinese products should know the contents of. Is it available in downloadable E-book format? Or, preferrable for me, A-book (audio book) format, which only has to be listened to - not read? If so, could someone please post the link?


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Electron Power said:


> ...
> Aside from tehcnical manuals, I'm not really a book reader. But the one referred to in the previous post that supposedly describes chinese business modeling, practices, and ethics, looks like something that EVERYONE who purchases chinese products should know the contents of. Is it available in downloadable E-book format? Or, preferrable for me, A-book (audio book) format, which only has to be listened to - not read? If so, could someone please post the link?


If you are referring to the book "Poorly Made in China", there is a link to it on post 15 of this thread.


----------



## EVResource (Aug 16, 2014)

You might try a North American company like Molicel in Canada, they are 26700's but reliability, and warranty are not a problem with them


----------

