# [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think it was mentioned before:
If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load
of the plugged in EV, it will abort the session.
I found out that after 1/2 hour my EV stopped charging
luckily I had enough juice to get home....

Anybody know what might need to change?
I have a Bycan 110/230V charger (was using NEMA 5-20)

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh BTW, even though I was setup on the ChargePoint network
with my cellphone nr (I just now verified it), I did not
get an alert (SMS) about the termination of charging, so
that leaves me in the dark whether my car is charging or not...

I might try again tomorrow and take a bike (the nearest
public charge point is almost 1 mile from work, not fun
to walk back and forth and definitely not when the
charging stops by the time that you walk from the car to
work.
Reason to charge at a public station is a less happy event,
I started charging this morning at the same outdoor outlet
in the patio area of my work and checked around lunch time
if charging was still proceeding. It was not.
I also smelled an all too familiar smell near the outlet.
Probably the fact that the outdoor temperature was much
higher today than last week did not help, but I suspect
that there was a corroded wire or plug contact in the outlet
because the outlet is literally 2 feet from the service panel
with the breaker for this outlet (the breaker was tripped but
resetting it multiple times did not restore power to the
outlet, so I presume that the wire simply burned through, the
building manager did not allow me to do what I would normally
do when at home - open the outlet and check the wiring.
He was accommodating enough to open the service panel and
check for the wiring going to the outlet to verify that it
looked OK inside the service panel and verify that it indeed
was the tripped breaker...
Alas, I will have to wait until the outlet is replaced
(by an electrician) and until then try to make public charging
work for me, which brings me back to the tripped ChargePoint.
When I see my Bycan charger run, the current is typically
below 9A (tapering off when the pack gets full to about 4A
when the timer starts) into my 120V nominal pack (finishing
voltage just under 150V but normal charging for most of
the time at 130V, so 9A means about 1200W which should be
a pretty safe value. I don't know how to satisfy the
ChargePoint charger to not trip...)
I will probably throw my bike in my truck tomorrow and go
back and forth a couple times to check and reset if needed...
I know that I should be able to make it roundtrip for my 
commute but I rather not push this pack until I have a good 
idea what it can do - also I like to be able to run an extra 
errand without getting stuck.
Besides, I am a nerd. I want to know why ChargePoint does not
like my Bycan charger and trips off.

If it is a matter of power factor (adding capacitors?) then
that is what I will try to make it work.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...

I think it was mentioned before:
If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load of the plugged in EV, it
will abort the session.
I found out that after 1/2 hour my EV stopped charging luckily I had
enough juice to get home....

Anybody know what might need to change?
I have a Bycan 110/230V charger (was using NEMA 5-20)

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

_______________________________________________
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|
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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You may have some ground fault current that is just on the edge of tripping the charging station offline. as far as no notification of the charge ending, when my Citicar ended charging, the interlock relay drew enough current (4 watts) to make the charging station say it was still connected and charging. There may be a signal that the charging station expects from the vehicle to signal end of charge. 

Tom Keenan




> "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I think it was mentioned before:
> > If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Cor,

The circuit trip could be cause by many things. I use to teach Conductor 
Design Length to electrical workers on how to calculate the correct size of 
conductor, length of conductor, type of receptacle and type of circuit 
breaker.

Type of circuit breaker is important. Normal residential installation may 
use a circuit breaker for resistance circuits. For commercial installation, 
we may use a circuit breaker for inductive loads such as motors, 
transformers or lighting ballast.

A industrial rating NEMA 5-20 which is the same as a hospital rating is 
design to pull over 125% of the rating of the receptacle. For a 20 amp 
industrial rating receptacle this is about 25 amps which must be circuit 
breaker at 20 amps.

This type of commercial receptacle must with stand a 5 lb pull out with a 
heavy duty plug matching rate plug. In house electrical maintenance workers 
perform this test plus voltage drop tests between the power panel and cord 
set to the load device.

It is prefer to limit a load on a industrial receptacle and plug to 16 amps 
continuous on a No. AWG 12 copper stranded conductor not more than 20 feet 
long to maintain a voltage not more than 3% for power and 1% for lighting.

The maximum length of a No. AWG 12 copper stranded conductor is 16 amps at 
42 feet. If the cord set is over 50 feet and drawing 16 amps, then a No. 10 
AWG copper stranded conductor is use to main the voltage drop between 1 to 3 
percent.

The maximum length of a No. AWG 12 copper wire at 75 feet is 12 amps to 
maintain a 1 to 3 percent volt drop.

This conductor length must also include the length of the circuit from the 
panel to the receptacle, but also the length of the power cord. If the 
receptacle circuit length to the panel is 50 feet for a NEMA 5-20 receptacle 
the conductor SHALL BE a No. 10 AWG copper stranded type THHN-THWN 90 C 
rating.

Lets say the receptacle circuit length is 50 feet or more and you have a No. 
AWG 12 power cord that is 25 feet long, than the voltage drop will be more 
than 3% for a 75 foot circuit run for a 16 amp load.

This load of 16 amps, increases the temperature of the conductor, thus 
increases the resistance and voltage drop. A standard residential 
receptacle rated at 20 amps only has a continuous load rating of 3 amps for 
a hour. Non-continuous loads such as toasters, micro-waves, etc. may be 16 
amps on a 20 amp receptacle and 12 amps on a 15 amp receptacle.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:11 AM
Subject: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...


> I think it was mentioned before:
> If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load
> of the plugged in EV, it will abort the session.
> I found out that after 1/2 hour my EV stopped charging
> luckily I had enough juice to get home....
>
> Anybody know what might need to change?
> I have a Bycan 110/230V charger (was using NEMA 5-20)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load of the plugged
> > in EV, it will abort the session...
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Maybe the ChargePoint only signals on the J1772 events
and not on the NEMA 5-20 events, even though it is the
EVSE that is terminating the charge? When I plug my car
into a dumb wall outlet then it continues charging away
(as it has done all night).
I have heard from others who had the J1772 unplugged or
other event happening and they did receive an SMS. 

BTW, the car is parked almost abutting the charging pole
so I can plug in with only a few feet of wire between
the car and the pole.
I have a DC motor and flooded lead-acids, so ground fault
is definitely a possibility and I hear that EVSE use an
unnecessarily low current level for GFCI threshold, so
there is a good chance of nuicance trips...

I wished that the charger connected to the other side of
the dual pol breaker that is in line with the pack,
because if I now trip my pack breaker then not only the
controller but also the charger are disconnected, so I
can't "solve" the ground leakage from controller or motor
by throwing the pack breaker.

I will try public charging again today and see what shakes out.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Tom Keenan
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:07 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...

You may have some ground fault current that is just on the edge of
tripping the charging station offline. as far as no notification of the
charge ending, when my Citicar ended charging, the interlock relay drew
enough current (4 watts) to make the charging station say it was still
connected and charging. There may be a signal that the charging station
expects from the vehicle to signal end of charge. 

Tom Keenan


On Jun 11, 2012, at 11:11 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > I think it was mentioned before:
> > If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load of the plugged in EV,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Cor,

I've heard reports that some of the new Chargepoint EVSE's have software problems. They will fault 
out and you go to an 'older' one and you can charge with no problem.

I would let Chargepoint know that the EVSE stopped charging.

Rush
www.TucsonEV.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:11 PM
Subject: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...


>I think it was mentioned before:
> If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load
> of the plugged in EV, it will abort the session.
> I found out that after 1/2 hour my EV stopped charging
> luckily I had enough juice to get home....
>
> Anybody know what might need to change?
> I have a Bycan 110/230V charger (was using NEMA 5-20)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Charging at the same ChargePoint station today, but using my
extension cord because there was a Chevy Volt with J-1772
plugged in and occupying the EV spot.
Luckily two stalls over there was an empty spot, so I pulled
into that one, dug my extension cord out,
*rolled it out completely* (it is a 50 ft cord) to not overheat
the cord when lying in the noontime sun on a hot windstill day
on black asphalt with up to 12 Amps running through...
(Draping the orange cord around the truck also has the
subliminal message that people should take notice)
The free ChargePoint card opened the cover for the NEMA 5-20
outlet without problem and I am charging away at 1.2kW
(apparently my charger reduces its power draw when voltage drops
which I have seen on this long cord, dropping from 120 to 105V
when charging full bore) I plan on getting a 12 gauge cord to
reduce the loss as it makes no sense to drive an efficient car
and then throw away 15% in just heating the wires.

BTW, I happen to notice that charger outlet 2 (the J-1772)
was done charging, which can be expected from a Volt.

It is almost an hour now and the truck is still charging, so
the addition of resistance (extension cord) apparently has a
beneficial effect on the power factor or whatever the EVSE
was complaining about that stopped the charge after 1/2 hour
yesterday. I found that on the CHargePoint website I can
monitor the charging progress (power and energy delivered
and charging status) so I will just continue to monitor that.
It is kind of nice to be able to see remotely how your EV
is doing...

I still want to find out what caused the EVSE to trip, so I
might just order a few motor run capacitors and when the EV
spot is free in one of the coming days, I can plug in not
using an extension cord but only a power strip (under the hood)
and that will allow me to add capacitors by plugging them into
the power strip to check if any more "trips" will happen and
I can prevent them this way (by improving the power factor)
or that it was a fluke.

That will certainly also be needed if I install a J-1772 on
my truck to charge on 240V as I expect that port to be even
more finnicky about ground leak and power factor. We will see.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:25 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...

Maybe the ChargePoint only signals on the J1772 events and not on the
NEMA 5-20 events, even though it is the EVSE that is terminating the
charge? When I plug my car into a dumb wall outlet then it continues
charging away (as it has done all night).
I have heard from others who had the J1772 unplugged or other event
happening and they did receive an SMS. 

BTW, the car is parked almost abutting the charging pole so I can plug
in with only a few feet of wire between the car and the pole.
I have a DC motor and flooded lead-acids, so ground fault is definitely
a possibility and I hear that EVSE use an unnecessarily low current
level for GFCI threshold, so there is a good chance of nuicance trips...

I wished that the charger connected to the other side of the dual pol
breaker that is in line with the pack, because if I now trip my pack
breaker then not only the controller but also the charger are
disconnected, so I can't "solve" the ground leakage from controller or
motor by throwing the pack breaker.

I will try public charging again today and see what shakes out.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Tom Keenan
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:07 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...

You may have some ground fault current that is just on the edge of
tripping the charging station offline. as far as no notification of the
charge ending, when my Citicar ended charging, the interlock relay drew
enough current (4 watts) to make the charging station say it was still
connected and charging. There may be a signal that the charging station
expects from the vehicle to signal end of charge. 

Tom Keenan


On Jun 11, 2012, at 11:11 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > I think it was mentioned before:
> > If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load of the plugged in EV,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It *should* send you a text whether using J1772 or 120v. The one I use o=
n occasion does anyway. FWIW, I have two chargers, my 'big' charger pull=
s ~16a from the wall at 120v (~9a into my 153v nominal pack), and it will n=
ot work at 'my' Chargepoint location. It trips the breaker and sends me =
a text saying, "ChargePoint Network: Charging Suspended due to Overcurrent =
on INN MARIN / WELCOME. Call 888-758-4389 for help." It works fine at=
home on a 20a outlet. My 'small' charger pulls more like 12-13a at 120v=
(5.8a to my cells) and works fine on the Chargepoint (but is painfully slo=
w... not really worth opportunity charging unless I'm there anyway).

david.
http://www.evalbum.com/4021

----- Original Message -----
> From: Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
snip.
> Maybe the ChargePoint only signals on the J1772 events
> and not on the NEMA 5-20 events, even though it is the
> EVSE that is terminating the charge? When I plug my car
> into a dumb wall outlet then it continues charging away
> (as it has done all night).
> I have heard from others who had the J1772 unplugged or
> other event happening and they did receive an SMS. =

> =

snip.

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| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Cor,

I used a ChargePoint charger for the first time yesterday. I too like being able to check remotely
via the web or with the free iphone app. One thing to note, the door will not clock close
(and not activate the outlet) if you have a transparent plug. This doesn't sound like your problem,
but thought I'd mention it. My fattest extension cord has transparent plugs (one side lights up
to let you know the outlet is live). I wrapped some electric tape around it so that next time
I can try this extension cord.




> Rush wrote:
> 
> > Cor,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Cor,

Yes, more resistance in series with the AC line will generally improve
the power factor of a non-linear load (such as a rectifier-capacitor
power supply or a transformer-rectifier charger).

More inductance in series with the AC line will help improve the
linearity without hurting efficiency as much, and a capacitor across
the line can counteract the inductive phase shift.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
> > It is almost an hour now and the truck is still charging, so
> > the addition of resistance (extension cord) apparently has a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Lee,
For power factor compensation I plan to buy some motor run
capacitors. On Ebay I see a lot of metalized polypropylene film
capacitors, 450V AC and various capacities - I plan to get a
larger one (4uF) so I can easily make 8, 12 or even 20uF.
The capacitor is apparently a CBB61.
Do you have experience with this type capacitor for PF correction?

Thanks!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:14 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ChargePoint aborting charging session...




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > If the ChargePoint EVSE does not like the load of the plugged in EV,
> > it will abort the session...
> 
> ...


----------

