# The Bad The Good



## Guest (Sep 28, 2009)

Well I took out my GE 9" motor over my weekend. I was going to change motors but found that my other GE motor has an end shaft that is not square and causes a slight wobble in the flywheel. Yes, the wobble is too much to use for now. So I decided that maybe I can swap the end plate of the motors and found that the drive ends are not the same and won't swap. So I decided to just clean the motor and put it back in. Well while out I found (The Bad) that the motor has a bad drive end bearing. I have a little flick of the bearing and if you keep the volume up you will hear the bearing. It is toast. We have a bearing supply house in town and (The Good) I can replace the bearing and get the motor up and running again. It is an old motor but still looks fine. I cleaned up the commutator bars and it is ready for the bearings. I am going to replace both bearings since I am at that point. This motor R&R is real simple. Way better than an ICE. The other item in question is the field windings of each motor. My main motor has three layers of flat wire turned for each field winding and the other motor uses two layers to produce the same fields. I wanted to know if it really makes a difference since both sets of fields are exactly the same size. Yes the one set of fields is from one motor and the the other from my other motor. Both GE 9". The one has lots of com bars but seems like two bars equals one on my main motor. The brushes cover two bars at once on that motor. My main motor has brushes that cover one com at a time. It is also noted that the motors seem to be set at neutral settings. I need to advance the motor but the brush end does not have a way to advance or retard the brush ring. I will contact Jim Husted on this matter. 

So far all is good and I am glad to have the knowledge about these motors. I will get the one shaft fixed and get that flywheel wobble out and then have a clean motor to drive in another vehicle. 

Pete 


Check the motor pages:
http://greenev.zapto.org/electricvw/Electric_VW/The_Albums/Pages/GE_9".html


Check the bearing flick:
http://greenev.zapto.org/electricvw/Electric_VW/Flicks.html


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

gottdi said:


> My main motor has three layers of flat wire turned for each field winding and the other motor uses two layers to produce the same fields. I wanted to know if it really makes a difference since both sets of fields are exactly the same size. Yes the one set of fields is from one motor and the the other from my other motor.


Hi gottdi,

Yes, it makes a difference. The field strength (turns/coil) is designed to match the armature strength. Just because they fit doesn't mean they will function properly. Also the resistance and current carrying capacity will be different. So you could end up toasting some coils.



> I cleaned up the commutator bars


That likely did more harm than good. 

On the replacement bearings I suggest you get double sealed permanently lubricated (with high temperature grease) bearings. And install them properly, with a press, not a hammer. 

Regards,

major


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2009)

I trust my work. A press would be nice. Doubt that will happen. I will stick with my original field windings. 

Ok I see about the field windings. The one with three layers can only wrap around so many times while the one with two will wrap around a bit more. 

Will think about taking the motor to a shop but I don't like it when a job that takes minutes will take the shop a week to do. I do not see that they have that much business but then again maybe they do. I need to take the one armature to the shop to have the end trued and squared so my flywheel won't wobble when the adaptor is driven home and secured to the shaft. The shaft is not bent. Just the end face is no longer squared. The inside of the collar for the flywheel rests on the squared end of the shaft so when the flywheel is attached it will run true. It was build for this motor. Pics to come of the adapter and collar. It is not a taper bushing. More like a collar. You will see. 

Pete 

Would love to get both motors working properly. Where can I get some brushes? Good ones!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

gottdi said:


> I trust my work. A press would be nice. Doubt that will happen.


Hi Pete,

Hammer away. You know it is a bearing not a nail  Why do you think it failed in the first place? Maybe improper installation?



> I need to take the one armature to the shop to have the end trued and squared so my flywheel won't wobble when the adaptor is driven home and secured to the shaft. The shaft is not bent. Just the end face is no longer squared.


O.K. So you got me here. If the shaft is not bent, how do you expect to do something to the shaft which will correct runout on the DEH?

And to source good brushes, ask Jim H. or go to a forklift service shop.

Regards,

major


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2009)

I am very aware it is a bearing and I use soft mallets and only tap into position. It is slow and tedious but it does work. By the way, the motor is old and well used. The current bearing is not double sealed. Fine dust and water could have done this bearing in. 

Pete


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2009)

Major,

Oooops, got thinking wrong about that shaft connector. If it is out of whack and the shaft is straight then the walls of the adaptor must be off or the mount surface is wrong. It had been in service for some time in a VW Ghia. Don't know why I can't get the wobble out. It is a visible wobble.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2009)

Quickie update, Motor is now back together and running in the brushes. I will be reinstalling the motor on Fri. So far so good. I did a bit of inside cleaning but it did not need much. The new bearings are perm sealed and sealed against water intrusion too. The bearings were a decent price but they are still pricey. Anyway they installed easy and the motor is nice and smooth. 

Pete 

PS. Will update when the motor is installed and I take it out for a spin. I will do run with the computer attached to the controller and keep track on the computer. I can compare to other runs before the motor bearing change. Just hoping for smoother running and less amperage draw.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2009)

Motor is back in and I have taken a good test run. It is noisier than before in the brushes. The brushes are not perfect to the commutator. It got quieter than when I first ran the brushes in out of the car but still they are louder. The commutators look good after that initial run and the motor is still running like before. I will hook up the computer tomorrow. I had to charge the batteries a bit so I decided not to do a computer run until tomorrow. I am going to hook up my cutout thermo switch to my contactor or some thing so I know if my motor is running too hot. So far the fix is doing fine. 

Pete 

Nice to get my hands into a motor. Helps to know how they go together.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2009)

*The Good*

Well I took the car out for a hard shake down today. I also hooked up cooling air to the motor and then proceeded to take it out on a freeway run. I took it for a 10 mile ride at 65 to 70 mph the entire way except for acceleration to those speeds. The motor got hot but not hot like it did before at slower speeds and had no hickups at all. None, nada, nope, and zip. The amperage seems to be about the same as before I replaced the bearings and the noise level has settled down quite a bit. Commutators look pretty good too. This is excellent news. Now to do another distance run. I hope to get a decent 25 miles at 55 mph. That is my goal until I can get some lithium batteries. 

One more bit of good news, My TDI is also back on the road with a replaced transmission and new front rotors and pads. Wow, the performance has been missed. Far better performance than my electric. Oh well. I still like the electric. Maybe 156 volts of lithium will wake the beast lurking inside my electric Ghia. 


Pete


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

Why did you change your mind about nicads?


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> Why did you change your mind about nicads?


Two reasons. 1st, I am going to use them to test my other motor controller setup and 2nd, I need to reenforce the tops of the batteries because they spent a good deal of time in the sun and made the tops brittle. When I am done with that project and if they prove out in my buggy testing I will install them in the Ghia.

Pete 

I may also use them for a solar back up unit.


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## mxmtech (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't understand. You've gotten some used nicad batteries that may or may not be useful but you've decided to buy new lithium batteries? There are many things I don't understand, aren't lithium batteries more expensive? Don't they die after 3 or 4 years of use? Why does it seem like nobody at all is using nicads?
I have just purchased a nicad pack for my ebike, it is 2/3 the AH of my SLA's and twice the money but I'm hoping that it will perform better in sub-zero temperatures.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2009)

mxmtech said:


> I don't understand. You've gotten some used nicad batteries that may or may not be useful but you've decided to buy new lithium batteries? There are many things I don't understand, aren't lithium batteries more expensive? Don't they die after 3 or 4 years of use? Why does it seem like nobody at all is using nicads?
> I have just purchased a nicad pack for my ebike, it is 2/3 the AH of my SLA's and twice the money but I'm hoping that it will perform better in sub-zero temperatures.


I have a good set of NiCd's and I have a good set of golf cart flooded lead acid batteries. I WANT to buy lithium but that will still be some time away. I have what I have for now. Lithium are lighter in weight and there is no know life yet for large format lifepo batteries. I know the NiCd's and Nmh are long life batteries but they are just as or more expensive as lithium now if purchased new. Heck one 6 volt flooded NiCd of the size I have if purchased new from Saft will set you back quite a bit. 

Pete


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