# [EVDL] Charging/Managing Flooded Lead Acid Batteries



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Folks,

It turns out I need a charging/management solution for my truck. I've
been looking at this circuit for charging:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/labc2.htm Any thoughts or
recommendations?

Thanks,
Dan
-- 
Specialization is for insects. -- Lazarus Long
http://nurr.org/~dan/A_human_should.html
Jack of all trades -- http://nurr.org/~dan

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It would probably be simpler and cheaper to just buy one of those little
float chargers at Walmart.


> It turns out I need a charging/management solution for my truck. I've
> been looking at this circuit for charging:
> http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/labc2.htm Any thoughts or
> recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> Specialization is for insects. -- Lazarus Long
> http://nurr.org/~dan/A_human_should.html
> Jack of all trades -- http://nurr.org/~dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'd be buying/building 12 chargers, as I have 10 12v batteries in my
traction pack, and two 6v for accessories. It'd certainly be easier.
Possibly cheaper, I haven't priced out the components for circuit I
pointed out.

I'll check prices on regular chargers.

Thanks,
Dan



> Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > It would probably be simpler and cheaper to just buy one of those little
> > float chargers at Walmart.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dan Maker wrote:
> 
> > I'd be buying/building 12 chargers, as I have 10 12v
> > batteries in my traction pack, and two 6v for accessories.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> When estimating your cost to build these chargers, bear in mind that what
> isn't shown is the required AC->DC supply. You'll either need a
> 120VAC->[email protected] (transformer, rectifier, fuse) for each of the
> 10-12 chargers, or a single large 120VAC->[email protected] 30-40A supply.

The larger supply mentioned about would ONLY work with this charging
circuit if the batteries were NOT connected in series.
If that's the case, then you're better of just using one 30-40A battery
charger and connecting all of the batteries in parallel.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Peter,

My traction pack is 10 12v batteries in series, so I should look
for/build a 12v charger that will supply 40 amps, and wire it in
parallel to all batteries (restating what you just said).

What about a 150v 4Amp charger and charging them in series? (this is a
hypothetical charger, and would probably have to be custom built)



> Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> When estimating your cost to build these chargers, bear in mind that what
> >> isn't shown is the required AC->DC supply. You'll either need a
> >> 120VAC->[email protected] (transformer, rectifier, fuse) for each of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger,

Thanks, I don't know off the top of my head what size they are.
They're the large deep cycle batteries from CostCo. I had already
taken into consideration the necessity of an AC to DC power supply,
but I haven't begun sourcing/pricing it.



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dan Maker wrote:
> >
> >> I'd be buying/building 12 chargers, as I have 10 12v
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dan Maker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Peter,
> >
> > My traction pack is 10 12v batteries in series, so I should look
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dan Maker wrote:
> 
> > My traction pack is 10 12v batteries in series, so I should
> > look for/build a 12v charger that will supply 40 amps, and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 2 Jun 2008 at 10:59, Dan Maker wrote:
> 
> > My traction pack is 10 12v batteries in series, so I should look
> > for/build a 12v charger that will supply 40 amps, and wire it in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > Delta Q might have a 120v charger by now - Roger?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dan Maker wrote:
> > I've been looking at this circuit for charging:
> > http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/labc2.htm
> > Any thoughts or recommendations?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 2 Jun 2008 at 10:59, Dan Maker wrote:
> >
> > So, you'd need a contactor for each battery to rearrange them for charging.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger,

Yes, they are flooded, I choose to use flooded lead acid for my first
battery pack because of their tolerance, and not knowing what charging
system was present. So far, my investigations have turned up no
charger, thus this thread. I've also read enough to know, as you say,
that how long a battery pack lasts has a lot to do with the charging
system. I'll look into the Russco SC18-120, would the Soneils give a
better per battery charge, making sure that each battery is properly
charged?

Thanks for your help and information,
Dan



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dan Maker wrote:
> >
> >> My traction pack is 10 12v batteries in series, so I should
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you are charging your batteries in a series string, make sure your
chargers are isolated or you will create a short across all your
batteries. So if you feed this circuit with isolated transformers it would
work.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

<quote who="Dan Maker">
> Folks,
>
> It turns out I need a charging/management solution for my truck. I've
> been looking at this circuit for charging:
> http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/labc2.htm Any thoughts or
> recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> Specialization is for insects. -- Lazarus Long
> http://nurr.org/~dan/A_human_should.html
> Jack of all trades -- http://nurr.org/~dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee,

Yeah, I've abandoned that idea. Others on this thread have pointed me
at Soneil, Russco and Zivan chargers, I'm investigating. It may also
be possible I can locate the original charger that was used with this
vehicle.

Thanks,
Dan



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dan Maker wrote:
> >> I've been looking at this circuit for charging:
> >> http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/labc2.htm
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks, I've changed thinking and will probably go with charging them
in series, if I can't locate the original charger.



> Jon Glauser <[email protected]> wrote:
> > If you are charging your batteries in a series string, make sure your
> > chargers are isolated or you will create a short across all your
> > batteries. So if you feed this circuit with isolated transformers it would
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > On 2 Jun 2008 at 10:59, Dan Maker wrote:
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a suggestion. ( a little tongue and cheek)
Get a charger with more amp capacity and hook it up one battery at a time.
Use a micro to measure the voltage and count the time then switch relays
to the next battery.
When you have more funds to buy a high power charger this becomes the
BMS for your vehicle.

Oh, wait. This has been done

http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/

Seriously, I think this is a great way to start out. You can add more
batteries later, A more powerful charger later, it balances the
batteries you got and takes care of the aux battery, You gotta have a
dc-dc anyway. The best point to make about this is that one meter is
used for all batteries. You don't have to worry about each charger being
out of calibration so much.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Haudy Kazemi <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> >For anyone curious about high current contactor/relay prices:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> This is not hypothetical; most EVs use chargers like this.
>
> The Zivan, Manzanita Micro, Russco, and many other types of chargers
> can charge the batteries as a series string. And they charge much
> faster than 4 amps; most will charge the entire pack at 10-50 amps.

This is quiet true. I have the Manzanita micro PFC20 and because I have
a 288V pack and a standard wimpy American 110V plug. I never put more
than 5A into the pack*. But I still sleep longer than it takes to
recharge so I haven't finished installing the higher power outlet yet 

*even the PFC which allows me to pull the full 15A out of the socket
without popping the breaker is stepped up 3X (especially with the long
extension cord) that the amps is 1/3 of the 15 or 5A That is pushihng it
on the extension cord so I set it for 4A and leave it.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

200 amps is too low for most EVs and it's probably on rated at 12V, not
120C like it would need to be for the pack in question.



> > EVDL Administrator wrote:
> >> On 2 Jun 2008 at 10:59, Dan Maker wrote:
> >>
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The down side is that it takes 10 times as long to charge and costs almost
as much as a normal 120V charger.

> I have a suggestion. ( a little tongue and cheek)
> Get a charger with more amp capacity and hook it up one battery at a time.
> Use a micro to measure the voltage and count the time then switch relays
> to the next battery.
> When you have more funds to buy a high power charger this becomes the
> BMS for your vehicle.
>
> Oh, wait. This has been done
>
> http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
>
> Seriously, I think this is a great way to start out. You can add more
> batteries later, A more powerful charger later, it balances the
> batteries you got and takes care of the aux battery, You gotta have a
> dc-dc anyway. The best point to make about this is that one meter is
> used for all batteries. You don't have to worry about each charger being
> out of calibration so much.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

But...with a 288V pack you take out less than half the AH as someone going
the same distance with a 120V pack.
Might be less AJ to put back, but you are still pushing in almost 1.5kwm
that makes an 8 hr charge over 11 kwh

>>
>> This is not hypothetical; most EVs use chargers like this.
>>
>> The Zivan, Manzanita Micro, Russco, and many other types of chargers
>> can charge the batteries as a series string. And they charge much
>> faster than 4 amps; most will charge the entire pack at 10-50 amps.
>
> This is quiet true. I have the Manzanita micro PFC20 and because I have
> a 288V pack and a standard wimpy American 110V plug. I never put more
> than 5A into the pack*. But I still sleep longer than it takes to
> recharge so I haven't finished installing the higher power outlet yet 
>
> *even the PFC which allows me to pull the full 15A out of the socket
> without popping the breaker is stepped up 3X (especially with the long
> extension cord) that the amps is 1/3 of the 15 or 5A That is pushihng it
> on the extension cord so I set it for 4A and leave it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John <[email protected]> wrote:
> > NO! Any of these relays would be destroyed trying to open a high voltage DC
> > circuit under load. "opening under load" includes inadvertent ignition switch
> > operation, a wire vibrating loose, a fuse or breaker tripping, etc. When a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> The down side is that it takes 10 times as long to charge and costs almost
> as much as a normal 120V charger.

Not 10x, surly?. It is what makes it's opportunity charging mode available.

looking at my pack 24 50ah batteries The PFC 20 when plugged into 110V
can pull less than 15A @ 110. (1650W)This pushes about 4 amps into each
battery.
@50%DOD this is 6.25 hours.

Now the dc-dc in a LHBB is 110V/12V , that is multiplier of 9 So in
this case we are limited by the relays to 30A or 3.3A from the wall
(110*3.3 = 363W)

so 4.5 times from the wall, just looking at the watts. we look at
25ah/30 = .83hour = 20hr 3.2 times longer. (but greater than 8-10 so a
problem for most people.

If I used my IOTA DLS-55 and 60Amp relays the same thing can now be
done in 10 hours, reasonable and I think higher charging amps would help
AGM's.

If I had a 144V 100Ah pack the PFC would push 9A into the pack and the
LHBB would still be at 30A but now 50% would be 50ah, This should come
as no surprise that

12* 50/30 = 20hr, It really is what you can pull out of the wall that
matters. Obviously the PFC20 can pull or push 20A and a 240V 20A plug
would reduce the charge time by a factor of almost 4 (240/300 = .8.
.8*20= 16A into pack) but we can't really push like that from 50 all the
way to 100%, the last 20% must taper off.

If they are gel or agm, we must balance at considerably less amperage.
If even 1 battery hits full before the rest the entire chargeing grinds
to a 1/2 A equalizing current, or whatever your bypass regulator system
can handle. the LHBB doesn't have this restriction.

As for cost, well, What I suggested was on the assumption you are gonna
have a dc-dc converter and have a BMS anyway. Instead of being in
addition to the bulk charger, This concept is all of them at once.

Please don't get me wrong, I love the PFC20 and the regs, but The older
regs have, in my opinion a flaw(that the newer regs take care of) but
$75 / reg * 24 is $1800. The problem was no feedback other than the
leds. and each board has it's own calibration. It also is limited to
balancing at end of charge only. This worked awsome when the pack was
new. It tends to have more difficulty as the pack ages.

I think the LHBB will help reduce the problem I just had. (although from
what other people have said, can be viewed as hiding a problem battery
for longer) My pack was replaced about a year ago and it was never as
good as the first pack. Saturday I found out why 4 of the batteries only
have 9Ah of capacity. I estimated this by doing a load test on all 24
batteries after removing a set amount. The LHBB can do a capacity test,
but it also can balance while you drive.

In my case, currently 4 batteries have 9ah, They weren't that far off to
begin with but they received a higher DOD each cycle and therefore
reduced capacity faster.
Right now I stop when I hit 9ah, the LHBB would shuttle charge around
and allow me to continue driving. If it had been on there this last
year, the DOD would have been reduced on the weaker cells on each cycle,
and the intrinsic cell balance would have gotten better not worse. This
is I think a fundamental difference between charge shuttling and bypass
regulation systems. I have pretty much had the bypass sytem on two
packs, I will let you know in about two months how it works out.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well I suppose that's true if you use something other than the Vicor
Batmod for your DC/DC (the Vicor is less than 15 amps at 12VDC).

Of course I suspect that would drive the cost up OVER that of a simpler HV
charger. The 60 AMps relays would almost definitely drive the cost way
up.

Not that I'm knocking the LHBB. I believe it's one of the best battery
balancers available, if you /need/ a battery balancer.

>> The down side is that it takes 10 times as long to charge and costs
>> almost
>> as much as a normal 120V charger.
>
> Not 10x, surly?. It is what makes it's opportunity charging mode
> available.
>
> looking at my pack 24 50ah batteries The PFC 20 when plugged into 110V
> can pull less than 15A @ 110. (1650W)This pushes about 4 amps into each
> battery.
> @50%DOD this is 6.25 hours.
>
> Now the dc-dc in a LHBB is 110V/12V , that is multiplier of 9 So in
> this case we are limited by the relays to 30A or 3.3A from the wall
> (110*3.3 = 363W)
>
> so 4.5 times from the wall, just looking at the watts. we look at
> 25ah/30 = .83hour = 20hr 3.2 times longer. (but greater than 8-10 so a
> problem for most people.
>
> If I used my IOTA DLS-55 and 60Amp relays the same thing can now be
> done in 10 hours, reasonable and I think higher charging amps would help
> AGM's.
>
> If I had a 144V 100Ah pack the PFC would push 9A into the pack and the
> LHBB would still be at 30A but now 50% would be 50ah, This should come
> as no surprise that
>
> 12* 50/30 = 20hr, It really is what you can pull out of the wall that
> matters. Obviously the PFC20 can pull or push 20A and a 240V 20A plug
> would reduce the charge time by a factor of almost 4 (240/300 = .8.
> .8*20= 16A into pack) but we can't really push like that from 50 all the
> way to 100%, the last 20% must taper off.
>
> If they are gel or agm, we must balance at considerably less amperage.
> If even 1 battery hits full before the rest the entire chargeing grinds
> to a 1/2 A equalizing current, or whatever your bypass regulator system
> can handle. the LHBB doesn't have this restriction.
>
> As for cost, well, What I suggested was on the assumption you are gonna
> have a dc-dc converter and have a BMS anyway. Instead of being in
> addition to the bulk charger, This concept is all of them at once.
>
> Please don't get me wrong, I love the PFC20 and the regs, but The older
> regs have, in my opinion a flaw(that the newer regs take care of) but
> $75 / reg * 24 is $1800. The problem was no feedback other than the
> leds. and each board has it's own calibration. It also is limited to
> balancing at end of charge only. This worked awsome when the pack was
> new. It tends to have more difficulty as the pack ages.
>
> I think the LHBB will help reduce the problem I just had. (although from
> what other people have said, can be viewed as hiding a problem battery
> for longer) My pack was replaced about a year ago and it was never as
> good as the first pack. Saturday I found out why 4 of the batteries only
> have 9Ah of capacity. I estimated this by doing a load test on all 24
> batteries after removing a set amount. The LHBB can do a capacity test,
> but it also can balance while you drive.
>
> In my case, currently 4 batteries have 9ah, They weren't that far off to
> begin with but they received a higher DOD each cycle and therefore
> reduced capacity faster.
> Right now I stop when I hit 9ah, the LHBB would shuttle charge around
> and allow me to continue driving. If it had been on there this last
> year, the DOD would have been reduced on the weaker cells on each cycle,
> and the intrinsic cell balance would have gotten better not worse. This
> is I think a fundamental difference between charge shuttling and bypass
> regulation systems. I have pretty much had the bypass sytem on two
> packs, I will let you know in about two months how it works out.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dan Maker wrote:
> > Cool, thanks. I like the idea of 1-wire stuff, it has good linux support.
> 
> The 1-wire parts are not isolated. They would be challenging to use to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > Well I suppose that's true if you use something other than the Vicor
> > Batmod for your DC/DC (the Vicor is less than 15 amps at 12VDC).
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Bob Schneeveiss had a clever way to do it. His battery boxes had hinged
> > lids. The lids had big spring contacts. When the lid was opened, the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If it has on board charging then it should have a cord or inlet to connect
to AC.

The common places to locate this is either behind the old fuel door or
somewhere around the front of the vehicle, often in or around the grill.


>


> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bob Schneeveiss had a clever way to do it. His battery boxes had hinged
> >> lids. The lids had big spring contacts. When the lid was opened, the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > If it has on board charging then it should have a cord or inlet to connect
> > to AC.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That method is dangerous. You do not want any arc producing devices in the 
battery box. The battery terminals must be mechanical and/or the battery 
links welded together. Knife type fuses we use in the fuse holders that are 
at or over 250 amp rated, We must install a Bussman fuse clamp after the 
fuses or buss bar is install in the fuse holder clips to increase the 
contact pressure. This cannot be done with the cover close in the standard 
units we use.

One time, I had a post melt off one battery, which cause a explosion by the 
venting hydrogen taking out 10 batteries. This blew off the battery covers 
sending through the hatch back cover to more than 20 feet in the air.

Your battery terminals must be torque to the recommended torque that is 
required by the battery manufacturer.

For maximum safety, any arc producing devices like contactors, battery 
chargers, motor controllers, and open type motors should not be in the same 
atmosphere as the batteries.

The batteries should be enclosed non-conductive battery box, which is 
ventilated by exhausting, not by pressurization, using a total enclose 
blower fan and double inlet suppression filters which can made by a metal 
window screen and some 2 inch thick 3M plastic air filter material.

The exhaust hose connections shall be a acid proof pvc hose connection that 
directed away from the vehicle while charging. When I charge the EV in the 
winter time in a enclose garage, I connect one of those exhaust hoses on 2 
inch pvc exhaust pipe which connects to a wall or garage door port.

This method of battery box exhausting, prevents any interchange of the 
battery venting into any other enclosures.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Maker" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charging/Managing Flooded Lead Acid Batteries


>


> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob Schneeveiss had a clever way to do it. His battery boxes had hinged
> > > lids. The lids had big spring contacts. When the lid was opened, the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland,
While I won't condone high current connectors used in this fashion (The cost
will be far greater then a series charger, no doubt) your story certainly
puts emphasis on ventilation. While hydrogen fumes are volatile they
dissipate easily with simple ventilation and as stated last week, must be
ventilated up. One of the great things about Hydrogen is it won't accumulate
on the floor, it is lighter than air.

Mark Grasser
Balyntec
Marine Products, LLC
828-581-4601
[email protected]


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:29 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charging/Managing Flooded Lead Acid Batteries

That method is dangerous. You do not want any arc producing devices in the 
battery box. The battery terminals must be mechanical and/or the battery 
links welded together. Knife type fuses we use in the fuse holders that are 
at or over 250 amp rated, We must install a Bussman fuse clamp after the 
fuses or buss bar is install in the fuse holder clips to increase the 
contact pressure. This cannot be done with the cover close in the standard 
units we use.

One time, I had a post melt off one battery, which cause a explosion by the 
venting hydrogen taking out 10 batteries. This blew off the battery covers 
sending through the hatch back cover to more than 20 feet in the air.

Your battery terminals must be torque to the recommended torque that is 
required by the battery manufacturer.

For maximum safety, any arc producing devices like contactors, battery 
chargers, motor controllers, and open type motors should not be in the same 
atmosphere as the batteries.

The batteries should be enclosed non-conductive battery box, which is 
ventilated by exhausting, not by pressurization, using a total enclose 
blower fan and double inlet suppression filters which can made by a metal 
window screen and some 2 inch thick 3M plastic air filter material.

The exhaust hose connections shall be a acid proof pvc hose connection that 
directed away from the vehicle while charging. When I charge the EV in the 
winter time in a enclose garage, I connect one of those exhaust hoses on 2 
inch pvc exhaust pipe which connects to a wall or garage door port.

This method of battery box exhausting, prevents any interchange of the 
battery venting into any other enclosures.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Maker" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charging/Managing Flooded Lead Acid Batteries


>


> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob Schneeveiss had a clever way to do it. His battery boxes had hinged
> > > lids. The lids had big spring contacts. When the lid was opened, the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Your control does not have an integrated charger.
Check out this picture of the Dodge TEVan,
http://picasaweb.google.com/rodnhower/ElectricVehicle/photo#5186513760364232482
You'll notice the motor control in the front that
looks like yours. The control in the back is the PFC
charger used on the TEVan.
Perhaps he had something external to the vehicle?
Rod


> --- Dan Maker <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 9:56 PM, Lee Hart
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Rod,

The TEVan uses a 180v battery pack, I'm wondering if I could up the
voltage of my battery pack (and add Ah) to extend my range. Do you
know if firmware changes would need to be made to the controller?

Thanks
Dan



> Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Your control does not have an integrated charger.
> > Check out this picture of the Dodge TEVan,
> > http://picasaweb.google.com/rodnhower/ElectricVehicle/photo#5186513760364232482
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Bob Schneeveiss had a clever way to do it. His battery boxes had
> > > two hinged lids. The lids had big spring contacts. When the lids were
> > > opened, the batteries were completely unwired. When he closed the
> ...


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