# [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The controller Fred is talking about is a 48V Sevcon SepEx PP745. The
1K resistor he is talking about is connected to pin 11 on connector B
of the controller. The manual says this has a range of 3.5-0V. The
regen circuit which came on my Gizmo is posted on my blog at
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com/ . Hopefully someone more knowledgeable
than I am can answer Fred's question.




> fred <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I've been getting great assistance with my Gizmo EV from a fellow Gizmo o=
> wner. He has a circuit for his Sevcon controller which triggers full-on reg=
> en when the normally-closed circuit is opened. There is a 1K resistor in th=
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Shawn, I have what appears to be the manual for this controller and it has, in great depth, the options for regen braking. I think David's new circuit is going to use directional regen braking, while I would prefer to use neutral regen, controlled by a pot actuated by my mostly-unused left brake lever. The brake lever pulls a cable routed along the outside panel via a mechanical linkage. The rear brake is attached to this mechanism and is rarely, if ever used, as rear wheel lockup on a three-wheeled tadpole trike is like losing rudder on a sailboat. I believe I can adjust it to actuate regen in the early portion of the travel, while retaining its value as a mechanical disk brake and parking brake.

I have noted in the manual that a setting in the calibrator of 0V disables regen, and I suspect that mine is disabled. As I have the calibrator, I can easily enable it if I can get this straight in my alleged mind. Most of the specific information in the manual is way over my head, but I have a pretty good grasp of concepts.

Since David's previous configuration was full-on regen when the brake light relay opened the circuit through the 1K resistor, would putting a pot in its place accomplish variable regen? The manual lists pin 10 as (sic) Analogue i/p 0V-5V and lists pin 11 as Analogue 3V5-0V, which I take to be a typo for 3.5V-0V, but that doesn't help my understanding of how to add in the pot and if the "standard" EV pot will work.

Mechanically, this should be simple for me to implement, as the left brake lever linkage includes a threaded rod with plenty of room for attaching an actuator arm and is located quite close to the controller as well.

I plan to install the 1K resistor and wire the circuit to see if full-on regen works as with David's system. That's also going to be pretty simple, as the left brake/rear brake/parking brake has a disconnected controller disable switch already in place. I need only to wire it in and adjust the tripping collars.

Please explain what precedent means in the case of a "manually" actuated regen? Would this imply that the circuit used for the throttle could be implemented in such a way that easing off the throttle engages the regen? I'll bet that would feel like a lawn tractor hydrostatic transmission, i.e., no freewheeling. Since my Gizmo uses a "Norm" circuit to read a Hall effect throttle and send the appropriate signal level to the controller, I'd expect that I could not use a circuit such as envisioned in the beginning of this paragraph. David's entire Norm circuit is being replaced, so I can't reference that one.

There's reference to a number of parameters in the manual for regen, including direction regen, braking regen, neutral regen. I would not be surprised to really bung things up by changing what I think are the right settings. David has provided me with his calibrator parameters for the full-on regen, which would be my first attempt, so I have some place to start.

Since David's circuit from pin 11 goes to the B- connector on the controller, it appears that it's "negative" voltage, or am I misreading? What purpose does the 1k pot in that line serve, especially considering that it's a closed circuit when the regen is off and an open circuit when regen is selected? Not so much "what purpose", I suppose, as what voltage, or is that unimportant?

fred

------------------------------

Original Message: 27
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:28:56 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

David,

The 48 volt Sevcons that I use can be programmed to accept a variable 
voltage on pin 10 for accel, and a variable voltage on pin 11 for 
variable regen. Both of these ranges are adjustable. Further, the 
controller can be programmed to place precedent on either drive or 
braking. This allows the unit to match most desired drive 
configurations. While my controllers are for PM and yours is for 
Sepex, I would surmise that the input setups and programming maps are 
similar. Do you have a Sevcon factory manual?

Shawn Lawless


-----Original Message-----
From: David Nelson <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 2:55 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?



The controller Fred is talking about is a 48V Sevcon SepEx PP745. The
1K resistor he is talking about is connected to pin 11 on connector B
of the controller. The manual says this has a range of 3.5-0V. The
regen circuit which came on my Gizmo is posted on my blog at
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com/ . Hopefully someone more knowledgeable
than I am can answer Fred's question.


End of Orignal Message 27
------------------------------




_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Fred,

I first want to reiterate that your controller may in fact offer 
differnet programming options than mine. That being said let me 
clarify a bit what I previously posted.

A. The controller has 3 types of regen.

1. Neutral or reduction regen. This acts as an engine brake would, 
ie: when you partially or fully release the accelerator, the programmed 
amount of regen is introduced. This programmed value is a percentage 
of your max programmed accel current. If you want to free wheel then 
this needs to be set to 0.

2. Direction regen. This is handy in industrial and other 
applications but no so in yours. This should be set to 0.

3. Braking regen. This is a manually operated circuit and can be 
configured to brake at a set value by closing a switch OR as a 
proportional potentiometer controlled pedal. The latter seams to be 
what you are after. In the case of my controller what needs to be done 
to achieve this is the following:

Fit a 0-5K pot from pin 11 to b-
Program analog input to recognize both accel on pin and brake on pin 11.
Program max current for brake regen.
Program max and min voltage settings to match brake pot.

What I meant by precedent is that there is a program setting that 
allows either the drive OR the brake pedal to be in charge in the event 
they are both pressed at the same time. For on road, non racing use, I 
would select brake.

Do you happen to be near Ohio?

Shawn Lawless


-----Original Message-----
From: fred <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?



Shawn, I have what appears to be the manual for this controller and it 
has, in
great depth, the options for regen braking. I think David's new circuit 
is going
to use directional regen braking, while I would prefer to use neutral 
regen,
controlled by a pot actuated by my mostly-unused left brake lever. The 
brake
lever pulls a cable routed along the outside panel via a mechanical 
linkage. The
rear brake is attached to this mechanism and is rarely, if ever used, 
as rear
wheel lockup on a three-wheeled tadpole trike is like losing rudder on 
a
sailboat. I believe I can adjust it to actuate regen in the early 
portion of
the travel, while retaining its value as a mechanical disk brake and 
parking
brake.

I have noted in the manual that a setting in the calibrator of 0V 
disables
regen, and I suspect that mine is disabled. As I have the calibrator, 
I can
easily enable it if I can get this straight in my alleged mind. Most of 
the
specific information in the manual is way over my head, but I have a 
pretty good
grasp of concepts.

Since David's previous configuration was full-on regen when the brake 
light
relay opened the circuit through the 1K resistor, would putting a pot 
in its
place accomplish variable regen? The manual lists pin 10 as (sic) 
Analogue i/p
0V-5V and lists pin 11 as Analogue 3V5-0V, which I take to be a typo 
for
3.5V-0V, but that doesn't help my understanding of how to add in the 
pot and if
the "standard" EV pot will work.

Mechanically, this should be simple for me to implement, as the left 
brake lever
linkage includes a threaded rod with plenty of room for attaching an 
actuator
arm and is located quite close to the controller as well.

I plan to install the 1K resistor and wire the circuit to see if 
full-on regen
works as with David's system. That's also going to be pretty simple, as 
the left
brake/rear brake/parking brake has a disconnected controller disable 
switch
already in place. I need only to wire it in and adjust the tripping 
collars.

Please explain what precedent means in the case of a "manually" 
actuated regen?
Would this imply that the circuit used for the throttle could be 
implemented in
such a way that easing off the throttle engages the regen? I'll bet 
that would
feel like a lawn tractor hydrostatic transmission, i.e., no 
freewheeling. Since
my Gizmo uses a "Norm" circuit to read a Hall effect throttle and send 
the
appropriate signal level to the controller, I'd expect that I could not 
use a
circuit such as envisioned in the beginning of this paragraph. David's 
entire
Norm circuit is being replaced, so I can't reference that one.

There's reference to a number of parameters in the manual for regen, 
including
direction regen, braking regen, neutral regen. I would not be 
surprised to
really bung things up by changing what I think are the right settings. 
David has
provided me with his calibrator parameters for the full-on regen, which 
would be
my first attempt, so I have some place to start.

Since David's circuit from pin 11 goes to the B- connector on the 
controller, it
appears that it's "negative" voltage, or am I misreading? What purpose 
does the
1k pot in that line serve, especially considering that it's a closed 
circuit
when the regen is off and an open circuit when regen is selected? Not 
so much
"what purpose", I suppose, as what voltage, or is that unimportant?

fred

------------------------------

Original Message: 27
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:28:56 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

David,

The 48 volt Sevcons that I use can be programmed to accept a variable
voltage on pin 10 for accel, and a variable voltage on pin 11 for
variable regen. Both of these ranges are adjustable. Further, the
controller can be programmed to place precedent on either drive or
braking. This allows the unit to match most desired drive
configurations. While my controllers are for PM and yours is for
Sepex, I would surmise that the input setups and programming maps are
similar. Do you have a Sevcon factory manual?

Shawn Lawless


-----Original Message-----
From: David Nelson <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 2:55 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?



The controller Fred is talking about is a 48V Sevcon SepEx PP745. The
1K resistor he is talking about is connected to pin 11 on connector B
of the controller. The manual says this has a range of 3.5-0V. The
regen circuit which came on my Gizmo is posted on my blog at
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com/ . Hopefully someone more knowledgeable
than I am can answer Fred's question.


End of Orignal Message 27
------------------------------




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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When I read your message last night, I could not make a lick of sense to it. This morning, with the haze cleared, it makes all the sense in the world!

Because this is a tadpole trike and rear wheel skids are not a good thing, neutral or reduction regen would probably require sensitive throttle management. I like the concept and would implement regen in this manner if not for the single rear wheel.

Direction regen appears to be the way that David Nelson's new circuit is heading. I want to keep my "HOTAS" configuration as much as possible, and not have to reach out to implement a direction change switch.

Braking regen, using my mechanical adaptation as you've described appears to be spot-on. I'll do some searching for a suitable pot and devise the very-simple linkage in short order. I think I can program the controller to do as you describe, partially, but may run into a snag once I begin the process. I appreciate the summary for the programming steps. I think it's going to be a bit more challenging for me to figure out what numbers to place where.

I agree that I'd rather have braking selected if I accidentally actuate both the brake lever and the throttle.

I'm not far from Ohio, in galactic terms. I'm in Florida. I missed the Battery Beach event, as my vehicle was on blocks getting new brake disks, pads, bearings and bushings. Two hours work, two weeks parts collection.

Anyone on the list with a small-format pot for sale? I have about two inches between the inner and outer walls of this vehicle to place such a device, for best results.

------------------------------

Original Message: 18
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:13:17 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?

Fred,

I first want to reiterate that your controller may in fact offer 
differnet programming options than mine. That being said let me 
clarify a bit what I previously posted.

A. The controller has 3 types of regen.

1. Neutral or reduction regen. This acts as an engine brake would, 
ie: when you partially or fully release the accelerator, the programmed 
amount of regen is introduced. This programmed value is a percentage 
of your max programmed accel current. If you want to free wheel then 
this needs to be set to 0.

2. Direction regen. This is handy in industrial and other 
applications but no so in yours. This should be set to 0.

3. Braking regen. This is a manually operated circuit and can be 
configured to brake at a set value by closing a switch OR as a 
proportional potentiometer controlled pedal. The latter seams to be 
what you are after. In the case of my controller what needs to be done 
to achieve this is the following:

Fit a 0-5K pot from pin 11 to b-
Program analog input to recognize both accel on pin and brake on pin 11.
Program max current for brake regen.
Program max and min voltage settings to match brake pot.

What I meant by precedent is that there is a program setting that 
allows either the drive OR the brake pedal to be in charge in the event 
they are both pressed at the same time. For on road, non racing use, I 
would select brake.

Do you happen to be near Ohio?

Shawn Lawless
------------------------------




_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Fred,

I'm in Fla all the time. If I'm nearby I would be glad to stop by and 
run through the programming with you.
I made a typo in my post. You need to connect two pot wires for the 
accererator, (one to B-, one to pin 10) as well as two pot wires from 
the brake pot, (one to B-, one to pin 11). Do you have a programming 
"MAP" in your manual? This makes running through the calaibrator menu 
much easier.

Shawn


-----Original Message-----
From: fred <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]xxx.xxx.edu
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 9:25 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?



When I read your message last night, I could not make a lick of sense 
to it.
This morning, with the haze cleared, it makes all the sense in the 
world!

Because this is a tadpole trike and rear wheel skids are not a good 
thing,
neutral or reduction regen would probably require sensitive throttle 
management.
I like the concept and would implement regen in this manner if not for 
the
single rear wheel.

Direction regen appears to be the way that David Nelson's new circuit 
is
heading. I want to keep my "HOTAS" configuration as much as possible, 
and not
have to reach out to implement a direction change switch.

Braking regen, using my mechanical adaptation as you've described 
appears to be
spot-on. I'll do some searching for a suitable pot and devise the 
very-simple
linkage in short order. I think I can program the controller to do as 
you
describe, partially, but may run into a snag once I begin the process. 
I
appreciate the summary for the programming steps. I think it's going to 
be a bit
more challenging for me to figure out what numbers to place where.

I agree that I'd rather have braking selected if I accidentally actuate 
both the
brake lever and the throttle.

I'm not far from Ohio, in galactic terms. I'm in Florida. I missed the 
Battery
Beach event, as my vehicle was on blocks getting new brake disks, pads, 
bearings
and bushings. Two hours work, two weeks parts collection.

Anyone on the list with a small-format pot for sale? I have about two 
inches
between the inner and outer walls of this vehicle to place such a 
device, for
best results.

------------------------------

Original Message: 18
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:13:17 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?

Fred,

I first want to reiterate that your controller may in fact offer
differnet programming options than mine. That being said let me
clarify a bit what I previously posted.

A. The controller has 3 types of regen.

1. Neutral or reduction regen. This acts as an engine brake would,
ie: when you partially or fully release the accelerator, the programmed
amount of regen is introduced. This programmed value is a percentage
of your max programmed accel current. If you want to free wheel then
this needs to be set to 0.

2. Direction regen. This is handy in industrial and other
applications but no so in yours. This should be set to 0.

3. Braking regen. This is a manually operated circuit and can be
configured to brake at a set value by closing a switch OR as a
proportional potentiometer controlled pedal. The latter seams to be
what you are after. In the case of my controller what needs to be done
to achieve this is the following:

Fit a 0-5K pot from pin 11 to b-
Program analog input to recognize both accel on pin and brake on pin 11.
Program max current for brake regen.
Program max and min voltage settings to match brake pot.

What I meant by precedent is that there is a program setting that
allows either the drive OR the brake pedal to be in charge in the event
they are both pressed at the same time. For on road, non racing use, I
would select brake.

Do you happen to be near Ohio?

Shawn Lawless
------------------------------




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Shawn, I did note the missing digits from your post, and figured out the proper matches for 10 and 11, based on reading the manual. There's a quite comprehensive chart in the manual for all the parameters in the controller and it would be an easy task for me to make appropriate changes. I've found that it's also just as easy to push the wrong arrow on the calibrator and get into the wrong menu option. At least such wrong button presses do not cause any trouble within the controller.

If I'm able to find an affordable properly sized pot to install and wire up, I would very much appreciate the chance to run through the programming with you. I'm in Daytona, the hotbed of NASCAR (according to some) and this week it's the hotbed of motorcycle week. Harleys are quite a bit noisier than a Gizmo EV, but I was still welcomed on Main St yesterday. Three wheels is a motorcycle!

Am I deluding myself to think I can find a suitable 0-5k pot to do the trick inside such a small space? I've not had a chance to research it yet.

------------------------------
original
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:26:57 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Fred,

I'm in Fla all the time. If I'm nearby I would be glad to stop by and 
run through the programming with you.
I made a typo in my post. You need to connect two pot wires for the 
accererator, (one to B-, one to pin 10) as well as two pot wires from 
the brake pot, (one to B-, one to pin 11). Do you have a programming 
"MAP" in your manual? This makes running through the calaibrator menu 
much easier.

Shawn

------------------------------




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm sure you'll find something to fit. You probably already know but 
if yu get lost in the claibrator map you can always push both up an 
down arrows briefly and it will tell you where you are at.

Shawn


-----Original Message-----
From: fred <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?



Shawn, I did note the missing digits from your post, and figured out 
the proper
matches for 10 and 11, based on reading the manual. There's a quite
comprehensive chart in the manual for all the parameters in the 
controller and
it would be an easy task for me to make appropriate changes. I've 
found that
it's also just as easy to push the wrong arrow on the calibrator and 
get into
the wrong menu option. At least such wrong button presses do not cause 
any
trouble within the controller.

If I'm able to find an affordable properly sized pot to install and 
wire up, I
would very much appreciate the chance to run through the programming 
with you.
I'm in Daytona, the hotbed of NASCAR (according to some) and this week 
it's the
hotbed of motorcycle week. Harleys are quite a bit noisier than a 
Gizmo EV, but
I was still welcomed on Main St yesterday. Three wheels is a motorcycle!

Am I deluding myself to think I can find a suitable 0-5k pot to do the 
trick
inside such a small space? I've not had a chance to research it yet.

------------------------------
original
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:26:57 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Fred,

I'm in Fla all the time. If I'm nearby I would be glad to stop by and
run through the programming with you.
I made a typo in my post. You need to connect two pot wires for the
accererator, (one to B-, one to pin 10) as well as two pot wires from
the brake pot, (one to B-, one to pin 11). Do you have a programming
"MAP" in your manual? This makes running through the calaibrator menu
much easier.

Shawn

------------------------------




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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've found and ordered a PB-6 from a buy-it-now on eBay at what appears to the lowest price. It's less than two inches thick, so it will fit well in the available space, and the lever action should match closely the travel available on my lever mechanism. I should have it wired in a week or less.

------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:26:57 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] variable regen with Sevcon Sepex?
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Fred,

I'm in Fla all the time. If I'm nearby I would be glad to stop by and 
run through the programming with you.
I made a typo in my post. You need to connect two pot wires for the 
accererator, (one to B-, one to pin 10) as well as two pot wires from 
the brake pot, (one to B-, one to pin 11). Do you have a programming 
"MAP" in your manual? This makes running through the calaibrator menu 
much easier.

Shawn

------------------------------




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General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> fred wrote:
> > I've found and ordered a PB-6 from a buy-it-now on eBay at what appears to the lowest price. It's less than two inches thick, so it will fit well in the available space, and the lever action should match closely the travel available on my lever mechanism. I should have it wired in a week or less.
> >
> >
> ...


----------

