# Electric Honda VFR conversion



## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

It's nice to see more of these projects posted here. Looks like you have put a lot of thought into your conversion. 144 volts on a bike ought to be fun! Seems like that 4-1 gearing would be pretty close based on some conversions on the evalbum. Norm


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

I've been reading your blog actually but its nice to see the blog and connect to your name here. What sort of performance are you expecting with such a high voltage? I'm probably only going with 72V (unless you want to ship the extra motor and your controller to Sydney =P)... Do you think you will ever get anywhere near the 600A of the controller? 144V @ 600A is like 87kW!!! I would guess your batts could put out around 230amps burst... that's still 32kW (sealed LA i have seen get about 13C). Very nice conversion, can't wait to see it on the road.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

ngrimm said:


> It's nice to see more of these projects posted here. Looks like you have put a lot of thought into your conversion. 144 volts on a bike ought to be fun! Seems like that 4-1 gearing would be pretty close based on some conversions on the evalbum. Norm


Thanks for the feedback. 

I chose 144V because the batteries I got (free and new from another EV'r) were small and could easily be moved within the frame, unlike the larger bats.

The kWh is the same as 72V 36Ah. The higher voltage allows me to detune the controller to 50% duty cycle as its "max", and have smaller battery cables. We've tried it already, and we can get over 200A out of the motor side (quick test) at lower duty cycles, and feed it with less than 100A on battery side. Gotta love PWM and DC Bus capacitors. I know my pack is small, but I only NEED 10 miles, 15 preferably, and when i switch to LiFePo next fall, I'll be getting 30+.

This is getting fun though. I think we're going to strap 4 of the small bats together, hook up to my 48V controller, contactor and magura, hook up my lights to an aux battery (safety first) and take her for a spin around the industrial park the shop is next to!. I'll post video.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

mattW said:


> I've been reading your blog actually but its nice to see the blog and connect to your name here. What sort of performance are you expecting with such a high voltage? I'm probably only going with 72V (unless you want to ship the extra motor and your controller to Sydney =P)... Do you think you will ever get anywhere near the 600A of the controller? 144V @ 600A is like 87kW!!! I would guess your batts could put out around 230amps burst... that's still 32kW (sealed LA i have seen get about 13C). Very nice conversion, can't wait to see it on the road.


Thanks for reading my blog, its great to hear people are reading it and watching the progress. Stop by and drop a comment.

I outlined above why i chose the bats, mostly for size. Plus, battery balancing/charger is being designed for a 144/156V car/truck system, so we're using me as a guinea pig to test it out. Plus there's the cool factor of being one of the highest voltage street legal bikes 

I won't ever run the motor at 144V, it'l be set to PWM at 50% which is 72. Plus, we're only building the controller for 400A. The bats I have can put out 5 sec bursts of 200A, continuous at 80A, so with a 50% max, the actual motor current will be higher. And I'm not going to be pegging it to 50%, it will most likely be driven under 45mph most of the time, which helps my current capability a little bit.

Thanks for the feedback guys, if you have some input, let me know, this is a bike dreamt by one, designed by many, and built by few.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Yeah most people don't get such high voltage because of the added cost but if you are building your own controller it will just mean less power dissipated in the battery cables and probably internally in the batteries as well. When I first saw your bike on the EV album I thought you must of been one of those crazy drag racing types!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

nope, just one of those guys that gets good deals on motors, batteries, contactors, bikes and controllers 

I'll go lifepo in the future at 100+ volts, so it kinda makes sense to overbuild the motor/controller combo a little bit.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I got some more work done, we fabricated some battery trays, and should have them finished by next week. Then I can start wiring this thing together!

Click on the pic to read more:


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Frodus, have you any estimations of your range with this setup? 
I'm very impressed with what you've done so far. And am VERY jealous of your donor bike. All that for about 1K and then to break even with a like new roller? UNREAL!!!!That bike would have been maybe 4-5K here.
I've not looked into doing bikes much so I'm not familiar with what different motors deliver performance wise, but I would consider doing one for "practice and more experience with EV's so I look around Ebay and such just in case a "bargain" turns up. Australian Ebay doesnt have the volume of auctions that the US has so when something comes up people jump all over it.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

range is going to be ~15 miles at first, might split the 144V pack up so its 72V, we'll see. Its easy to reconfigure the pack for 48/72/144V to put them in parallel and decrease the peukert effect. They're small batteries (18Ah) for now until I can afford lithium. 

I'm only expecting 10-15 for now, they're used batteries too.... might buy a new pack, but for now, for testing and getting her going, It'l be fine.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Another little update:


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

So, she's actually running now. Click the pic below for the blog entry and some pictures. I posted a video, but its dark. I'll get more tonight and throw it up on youtube. I'll do a walkaround as well. Looks like frankenbike, but it'l be cleaned up. We just wanted to get it together so we can begin testing.

http://blog.evfr.net/


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

For a minute I thaught you were using duct tape to hold that baby together. In your thumbnail it looks like the frame is made up of gray duct tape!

Good job on getting the bike running!


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Good onya Frodus!!

Be proud!!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

well, after working with those smaller bats (they were free), I'm starting to see that they just aren't supplying the capacity we need. The battery side (pegging throttle with brakes fully on) sucks 75A out of the bats, and give ~350A or so on the motor side. I might chose to go with some ~30Ah 12V batteries, 10 of them for 120V. Sucking 75 out of them is really not going to be good for them.

My main reasoning is because I just can't fit in the 50+Ah batteries inside the frame (10.5" wide). Putting them in sideways would be a waste of space. 10 ~30Ah would give me 3600Wh. The little 18Ah jobbies just won't cut the cheese. Plus, they're used, and if I'm going to spend another 400-500 bucks on batteries, I'm going to get some higher capacity batteries. My pack is 2592Wh right now, going to 30Ah 120V would give me a gain in 100lbs and a gain in 1000Wh, and give me much more range, and higher current capacity. Another thing, is the controller is set to kind of throttle back when the battery voltage sags. This is good for bats, but not performance. We've got a lot of testing to do yet, but again, I'm limited on the batteries I can fit, and I'd like to keep the fairings.

Another big issue, is the gearing. Right now the gearing is 4:1. I changed the sprocket last night, but the batteries were starting to get a little low, so I didn't push it. I'll try to recharge them a bit tonight and go for a freshly charged run. I'll report back tonight if I can. I forgot the camera last night, so I didn't take any more video.

Roughly speaking, when we were talking about the weight of the bike (150 for the rolling chassis, 60 for motor, 160 for batteries, another 20 for controller/contactor/battery trays) is about 390. Stock is ~500 wet. take a 200lbs rider (not me, just a good top estimate), and thats roughly 600lbs. 

From the motor torque curve, 350A is right around 50ftlbs. Ratio is 4:1, so thats roughly 200ftlbs at the rear tire. I'd like to get closer to 300ftlbs, with a 5.5:1.(11/60). That would overcome half the weight during acceleration. The stock motor in the cycle, had a 1st gear final ratio of 15:1, with a 40ftlbs at something like 3500 or so rpm (not at 0), which is 600ftlbs. My torque is at 0, so its not apples to apples comparison. I just want to get it to be a little bit less sluggish.

The best thing that I've got going for me, is that I'm not really limited by the voltage of the battery pack at 72V. I can go right up to 156V if I wanted to (we're developing the Synkromotive controller on this bike, and 2 other car conversion). This is nice because I can use smaller batteries and fit more in and get the same Kwh.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Posted 6 new videos:
http://www.youtube.com/frodus17


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Cool you got the "NOD" from a Prius owner"

Gotta love that.


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## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

It's nice to be able to ride it isn't it! I think you will really have fun once you get bigger batteries. You may find the torque to be about right with the current gearing and the additional amps.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

At a stop, full brakes, we pull 350A...motor side.... and it does heat up pretty good. 

Its tapering off, but it still heats up.... So i'd like to change a little... not a ton. Maybe a 5:1.

I'm having fun with it for now, we basically need to get more testing done.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

So last night, I dropped by Synkromotive to help Ives with some testing. We tried logging with the DataQ again, and it it kept failing, no matter what setting we used. Nothing seemed to help. We unhooked it, and I’m going to contact Customer Service. We need something to compare our measured values to.
We spent the rest of the evening getting the Old Tachometer (originally fed off the engine spark), to display the current on the motor side. Its pretty cool, as you give it gas, it displays current at a 50A per 1000rpm resolution. So 200A is 4krpm. I’ll likely print something to display actual A, but its great for testing. Its just a PWM signal to the original Tach line. I’m totally cool with keeping the stock look, infact, I’m HOPING to keep as much of a stock look as possible. Now I need to order a PB-6 to keep my original throttle, order a EV200 contactor and get the lights working.

*David Boyd got the bike up to 60mph… wow!* It was fresh off the pack, and pulled 300A or so up to 30mph, and then it started to drop… at 55mph, it was roughly half of that. Better gearing should help this, as less torque is needed. We’ll keep gearing what it is for now because we’re testing something new every day. I thought it felt kind of like a 250cc, but David said it actually feels more like a 500cc. I think the batteries are waking up a little too, so switching to new ones in the future, with higher current draw is definately going to help. This controller rocks!
I got a jacket the other day, and am going to pick up a Helmet this weekend. Insurance won’t be that hard (My agent has been really cool about helping me). Registering it should be ok, but I’ll have to have someone make sure they see it doesn’t have an exhaust/was converted to electric so I can be excluded from DEQ. I’m also going to get a Motorcycle instruction permit… and keep my riding limited to daytime, with a friend. Just need to take the Knowledge test.


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## Snax (Jul 26, 2007)

Great project! 

I have not started with any kind of EV bike yet, but you have me thinking I should be looking for one soon. The VFR looks like a great option for anybody with a little welding inclination.

As for getting the M endorsement, I strongly recommend a Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. Not only is it an automatic stamp of approval on your license (your in Oregon right?), but it's an excellent confidence builder with a strong emphasis on low speed skills and general rider competence.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Snax said:


> Great project!
> 
> I have not started with any kind of EV bike yet, but you have me thinking I should be looking for one soon. The VFR looks like a great option for anybody with a little welding inclination.
> 
> As for getting the M endorsement, I strongly recommend a Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. Not only is it an automatic stamp of approval on your license (your in Oregon right?), but it's an excellent confidence builder with a strong emphasis on low speed skills and general rider competence.


Thanks

I plan to take the course, I just want to be legal for testing it. Classes are full right now, but my goal is to take the course.


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## dave arthur (Dec 16, 2007)

hi ive built an electric bike based on a 750 cc suzuki 4 its an absolute dog the only part ive actually felt any pain buying was the controller, anyway its taxed insured and motd, using scrapyard batterys, i was initially only getting 2.6 then 3.6 and now 10 miles i will put all the info on this site when i have a bit more time, ime happy to show the project at its worst, as hopefully it will instill others to do a lot better, or at least realise it is not very difficult or expensive, and from such a low starting point i can make a lot of improvements, the only journey i have made was to the mot station, 1/2 mile away, after that ive only used our quiet lane, back and to, 3off 120 amp hour batt x 50lb mid 1960 fork lift truck 6hp pump motor with a 17 front sprocket and a 72 back it was showing just under 60 mph, now with 15 front sprocket i think it was 45mph, it was critical i knew the top speed 4 weeks ago when i reduced gearing and now i cant actually remember? i am writing some of the info down to use as future reference, all i can say is good luck.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

So, I decided to work my butt off this last weekend, and prepare the electric motorcycle for its first official public apearance. the OEVA was sponsoring an EV Awareness day downtown Portland on Saturday. I put everything together, cleaned it up, and went down there. Had a blast. It was one of the more popular vehicles there, because it was the only motorcycle, and the only electric sportbike that I know of in this area!

Read the blog article for details and some pictures!

Just thought everyone would like to see the finished bike. Still have to get it registered and get the lights working, but thats pretty easy stuff. Thanks everyone for the support, its been a long time coming, but the payoff has been great.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Here's a video that my friend Jim and I shot earlier this week. We have all the fairings on it, and pretty much have the motor mount and battery pack design nailed. We'll be cleaning up the wiring, making some small changes to the mounts, and upgrading the rear sprocket to a 60tooth (ordered 7-18-08). 
Right now, I'm working on the custom charging system that will be installed as well as the 12V aux system for lighting.

Real nice shot at the beginning and end of Jim hitting 50mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOtyY5kIw2g


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## kirwoodd (Jul 15, 2008)

Wow.
that is awesome!
Its impressive that you get that level of performance and it still LOOKS like a motorcycle. It will be interesting to find out what the performance will be after the anticipated fall upgrades.

Thanks for the videos.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Frodus, why have you kept the stock gearing? Is the performance/current draw acceptable as is?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

DVR said:


> Frodus, why have you kept the stock gearing? Is the performance/current draw acceptable as is?


I kept it because it was my first motorcycle conversion... and over 100 for a new sprocket, before I knew what ratio I needed seemed premature. So I waited. Its fine as it is right now, but I want more pep, and want to quiet things down and go to a 12 or 13 front.

Basically, I just wanted to see how the ADC performed, THEN decide on a ratio. I had the rear, and found cheap front sprockets, and some cheap chain, so experimenting was no big deal. I didn't want to waste money.

Just ordered the 60tooth rear, so we should be good at a 5-5.5:1 ratio.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

kirwoodd said:


> Wow.
> that is awesome!
> Its impressive that you get that level of performance and it still LOOKS like a motorcycle. It will be interesting to find out what the performance will be after the anticipated fall upgrades.
> 
> Thanks for the videos.


ican'tfuckingwait!

I think it'l be great once we have a better idea of performance with the rear sprocket upgrade this next week. LiFePo is in the works, and I might have a line on some a123's.


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## Phyber Optik (Jun 4, 2008)

frodus,

Sweet bike. Sounds like you got a great deal on it too.

I owned this exact bike back in '92. I always thought the all white paint scheme was sexier though! The 750cc version was lots faster but you had to pay a tariff on it (700cc's+) thanks to Harley.

I remember those white wheels were a PITA to keep clean - especially the rear with all the chain lube sling-off.

One little FYI, as I mentioned to someone else in another post:

Please keep in mind that your VFR as with many sport bikes - incorporates the engine as a stressed member of the frame.

Without the stressed member, this could place the frame under significant stresses.

In addition, when you add batteries, the curb weight will typically be higher than the original ICE.

Just something to keep an eye on at least - especially the welds around the steering head. A cracked weld there could be deadly.

Great project!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

we tried to incorporate some structural support in the battery frame.... we might install another member to strengthen it up a little.

As far as the weight, she's under stock by about 80-100lbs, because I used small batteries and the wH is under 3000.

Its a great bike, I like the white too.... and I might switch to white later (I've got almost a full fiberglass fairing set).


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## 59921 (Aug 8, 2008)

WOW very cool!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

well, I decided to switch to lithium, AC and a full BMS system....

here's progress so far, and plans for redoing the entire mechanical system


V2.0: Mechanical planning
http://blog.evfr.net/?p=290

Getting closer.... starting the mechanical layout.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

New entry with pictures of my AC15 motor disassembled. 

V2.0: Inside the AC15 motor http://blog.evfr.net/


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Another update:

eVFR 2.0: 72V 20Ah test pack
http://blog.evfr.net/?p=312

Key points:
- Got a test pack assembled and BMS talking
- update on iPhone display project


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## Stutz (Oct 11, 2009)

Thats a very nice VFR Frodus.


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

It is indeed. Now hurry up and get it back together and get some testing done

Steve


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Hahaha, I know, its taken so damn long. Part of the problem is time, the other is my lack of fabrication ability. 

Motor mount is being designed by a friend, the pack will be designed after that.


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## Tahoe Tim (Feb 20, 2010)

Great project. I use those same cells on my 36 volt bicycle. Your project makes me appreciate my Zero S motorcycle even more. I didn't really appreciate how Zero got a 67 MPH 50 mile range system into a 250 pound package for $10k.

Again, great bike conversion.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

July Update, blog entry and some photos:
http://blog.evfr.net/?p=344









got new motor mount fabricated
tested all 200+ batteries
I want to get the BMS working on the 48V test pack, the motor mounted and start mocking up where things will go.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Awesome, those motor frames look a lot like my R1 Frames.
Ive given up on Deadheads though (Headways)


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Why'd you give up on headways? I haven't had a single dead cell out of this last batch of 200 cells.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Actually its my fault really
should have been running a BMS. undervolted them
most of those dead cells have come back up to 3.3v but dont know if they are any good.
But under the same conditions I only killed one LifeTech cell so that is proof LifeTechs are put together better than headways
I heard you can get Headways from people that test them first so you only get good cells.
Working on a BMS module now with some engineers.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Yeah, you really need some sort of monitoring to detect Overvoltage and Undervoltage. Thats not the battery's fault..... 

lifebatt/lifetech USED to be headways that were tested at the lifebatt/lifetech facility..... so they picked the best of the cells to sell. I suspect that they're doing something similar with someone else.

I'm sorry, but I'll stick to paying 1/2 the price. They're fine if used within their limits.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Another little update
V2.0: TTXGP @VIR and Battery testing 
http://blog.evfr.net/?p=351
Main points:

I'm going to the TTXGP @ VIR to represent Manzanita Micro
Manzanita is expecting their Headway shipment to arrive soon
I've almost finished building my cell discharger/tester/cycler
I'll be testing the Headway cells at VIR
I'm excited to get to see another race!


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Frodus does your BMS protect each cell against undervoltage during discharge ?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Yes. I'm using a BMS from Elithion called the Lithiumate. It'l protect against over and under-voltage, over and under-temperature, over-current as well as any interloc and communication faults.

http://liionbms.com/php/liionbms.php


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Travis,

This is something I've thought about for years and since you are fabbing up a new system you might be interested. 

Can you rework the swing arm and motor positionin the area that the chain passes over and the pivot bolt passes through to carry a pair of connected sprockets on bearings as a jack shaft. This would do two things,
1.) Allow you to get high gearing you need without a tiny front and huge rear sprocket 
2.) Allow chains to be tensioned without needing to account for swing arm movement

______
| ----==|=--||-- < short chain, jack shaft and sprocket
| Motor | ---||---====Chain=========---------< Rear Sprocket
| | ||
| | ||< Swing arm pivot

Probably a lot of busy work without any real advantage but not having that chain whip on acceleration and decel would be nice.

Just some rambling thoughts. I planned on giving this idea to Woodsmith if he goes with chain on his trike.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

We have thought a little about that. Moving the front sprocket forward has disadvantages of course, but it would take a but of room in the engine area that I want to use for batteries. The first version of the eVFR was just fine and didn't seem to have a ton of chain slap. 

For now, i'm staying with this, as I've got motor mounts and sprocket already and its as close as I can get to the pivot. If I was doing it again, I might do a right angle drive and have the motor mounted front to back along its rotational axis.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Frodus,

Sorry about the crappy graphic.

The program wants to remove spaces so nothing lines up like I wanted it to.

Inline motors have too much torque reaction, thats why in never liked riding a BMW or Guzzi.

Depending on how much the armature weighs, it could be good or bad on an electric. I'm sure it has been done though.

Jim


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Here are the most recent pictures of the bike at the shop:

















































and here's one of the latest side project, my battery discharge setup (in this other thread as well):


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Blog update:


> Wow, It’s been a long time since I’ve had something to update on here. I’ve done pretty much nothing to the motorcycle in 6 months. I’ve been busy, I’ve moved, and most of February and March was spent with friends who moved and had birthdays. The guys helping me with the fabrication have been slammed as well. Now that that is all over, I’ve hunkered down and decided to get serious!
> I didn’t like the fact that my battery test setup didn’t cut out automatically at a set voltage and temperature to protect the battery, so I bought a CBA-II and a temperature sensor to help automate the test. I increased my discharge current ability, but now I can just walk away. So far the tests look good and I love the graphs from the CBA so far. It gives me all the information automatically (Ah, Watts, temperature, voltage). I want to set up “Burst Mode” on the CC400/CBA setup so I can alternate between 2 currents with 2 associated durations. For instance, set the CBA to 5A, and set the CC400 to alternate between 15A continuous and 75A for short bursts. This will allow me to check that the cell can discharge at 2C continuous and 8C bursts. From that, I can look at my CBA output and get the voltage at 2C and 8C and calculate IR for each cell. Its gonna take a while, but hopefully I can catalog all of the batteries. I better get to work, there’s 160 cells to test!
> Another big thing to announce that I’ve found some help on the mechanical side. A guy at work who goes to ITT has 2 classmates that wanted to do an EV project for their senior project. I talked with them a bit and they’ve decided to use my project as their final project. They’re mechanical engineering students and wanted something real world, not just a drawing of something. I’ll do the electrical, and help with ideas on the mechanical, but for the most part, that is their project. I’ll be working with Aston and Bryan on getting the bike finished by June 4th, when they have to present. We won’t have the bike street legal, but it’l be drivable. I can work on the lights/paint after its done.
> I also decided to sell my AC15 and Curtis 1238-7501 (AKA AC18) combo. Why? well, I decided to buy an AC20 off a friend of mine. It’l fit in the same motor mount, but it’l stick out 1.5″ more. I sold my AC18 to a fellow board member on ELMoto, so I know it’l have a good home.
> ...


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Blog Entry

So these 2 students helping me are kicking some ass. They’ve got just a little help from me with the electrical layout and basic ideas, but they’ve done awesome at getting the drawings done for my fabricator and making a nice finished drawing. There are only some minor changes we’ll do, but overall things look awesome!

Last week I purchased a 3/4″ thick 4′x5′ piece of UHMW (Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene) sheet. This will be the basis for the battery holders and covers. We’re making 5 packs. Two 11s5p packs, one 6s5p pack, one 4s5p pack and a 4s1p auxiliary 12V pack. The 4 large packs will be enclosed in an aluminum box which will be sealed to prevent water getting into the system. I’ve tested the batteries at 5C and do not think they’ll get too warm in this setup. I will get a fault/warning if the batteries are too hot (My BMS monitors temperature for each cell board).

Here are two drawings of the 11s5p packs we’ll build:




















So we’ll be meeting this week to finalize any issues we’ve got and then send to my buddy Dave Boyd (formerly of Synkromotive) to route them out on his XYZ Router table. Once that is done, we’ll assemble and start fabricating the battery box and get bussbars waterjetted out of Copper sheet (1/16″).

We’re hoping to have the battery box, controller, motor and charger mounted and wired up by the last week of May. We’ll get it “running” but not street legal in time for their final presentation the first week of June.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

EVFR 2.0: Battery holder prototypes finished
http://blog.evfr.net/?p=389

We got a first run prototype done, it's a 2x2 holder for my 12V battery.









So far so good!
Gonna try and get the bike to Dave's shop soon so I can start doing some more measurements done. The help from the students has ended, so I'll be getting help from Dave on the fabrication of the rest of the battery holders. I'm impressed with the way they turned out!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Little bit at a time. I got some new levers for my front brake (the old one has an adjustment piece that was rusting) and some other spare parts. The big thing I got was a heatsink from Noah that he did. He milled a second one for me that fits the curtis 1238 exactly. I'm very impressed. Right now I plan to mount it very low on the bike so that the fins kind of stick out from under the fairings where the exhaust was located. It will provide pretty good cooling. I might also consider the front behind the front wheel. Just need to see how my mockups fit.

 

Also got my old 28Ah 12V SLA's back from the guy that I sold them to and didn't use them, along with some parts he wants me to sell. Should make a nice test setup.

This week:
Hot glue and foam-board mockup of my battery pack and location of charger and controller.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Got my forks rebuilt last week and drilled out my triple clamp to attach a bar riser I found to mount some Spiegler superbike handlebars. Only 1 problem, the brake line isn't long enough, so I need to order some new lines. Kind of a bummer, but now I can upgrade to braided brake lines quick would be good since I'm running with 25+ year old lines. 

Got me thinking about just replacing the front master cylinder too. They're harder to get parts for. Since I don't NEED anything immediately, I'll let things go until I get the bike running because I'll probably want to rebuild the front and rear brake slaves, replace brake lines, replace pads and put new brake fluid in there. It'l be a good nice weekend project in the spring.

But at least it's back together. I'll throw the old bars on there for now until I get the lines. Probably be a couple months because I don't really feel like rebuilding the brakes too. At least I can get back to the battery pack I keep putting off.

So here's the current state:


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Unfortunately this project has stretched to over a year longer than intended due to starting a business, consulting people and having a girlfriend, etc. Couple that with the fact that I don't own some of the metalworking equipment I need to build my battery enclosure and holders, and time just runs away.

Because of that, the batteries sat in a box in my apartment.
So, one thing I was a little weary of over the last 6 months, is the health of my 180 cells. I charged them about 4-5 months ago one-by-one with an RC battery charger. They had never been charged before that and didn't apear to be consistently charged from the factory. After charging, they all had basically the same voltage (I know SOC isn't a real accurate measurement of SOC, but at the top/bottom, it's fairly accurate). 

Last night, dreading the chore, I measured all 180 of my batteries with a handheld multimeter. Not one was below 3.28V and they only varied about 0.06V amongst all of the cells. No dead cells. None had a large self discharge. I didn't record the starting voltage for each cell bar-code, but I'm really happy with the fact that these things can sit for months and months and have no problems. When I do make the pack, I'll start things slowly and not hammer on them too much just to wear them in properly.

Since it's winter time, I've got some more free time, and I'm starting to work out the electrical system. A friend of mine is taking my extra frame and we're going to make some mockups of the battery pack. We were considering spray foam, that way we can cut it away as needed and fiture out the final dimensions of the pack. He's a welder so we should be ok on the enclosure side of things.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I’ve still been working on the 12V test pack and wiring while parts are fabricated. I got the BMS controller + cell boards talking and shutting off the charger correctly. 

Working on a schematic, but here’s what I’ve got so far:
Ordered some optically isolated FETs to wire to the throttle since the Curtis I/O is not isolated. This will allow me to limit throttle as I reach my discharge current limit (DCL). It’s an analog output from the BMS, the more that output is driven, the less throttle I get. I can also limit regen by using another optically isolated FET on the CCL line and limit the Brake input.

Got the delta-q algorithms set up and wiring figured out. There’s an enable line that is grounded to B- when you want it to run, and ungrounded when you disable it. I control this with a little automotive relay connected to the HLIM (High Voltage Limit) on the BMS controller. This allows the BMS to turn the controller on/off when cells go high.

There’s a Relay inside the DeltaQ that turns on when you plug it in. I’ve taken the 12V always on from my Surepower DC-DC converter and wired that to the COM of the relay contacts. N/O goes to my V-Source of the BMS controller, so when it’s plugged in, it powers the BMS but nothing else. The N/C contacts go through the Ignition, and to the Key-switch input on the DC-DC converter. The switched output of the DC-DC goes to the V-Load input to power the BMS. It also goes to my 12V system (lights, signals, etc.).

The Curtis does its own Contactor control and pre-charge, but the BMS needs to be able to turn on/off the load. I can do that with DCL limiting throttle, but nothing disables the controller in case of a fault. I’m thinking I’ll use the LLIM line to drive a small 12V coil 150VDC contact to switch B+ and pin 1 (enable) of the controller.

I also wired up Canbus, changed the Elithion to ID 7E0 for OBD-II PIDs. I connected a Bluetooth-OBD-II dongle, paired with my Android tablet, started a program called Torque and imported a list of PIDs that I got from Elithion and added some Gauges. Screenshot:










So I’ve got the logic all figured out for the 4 main electronic pieces (controller, DC-DC, BMS and charger)… so after that, it’s on to the lighting/existing electrical.

Other pics of the bike below. Have fairings mounted, starting to sand and get ready for paint:


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

More pics....

Pic of the fibarglass faux tank (just 1/2 of it, used as a cover) with filled in gas cap:









Pic of the battery pack:


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

StreetFighter ! woo









I got a Kwaka ZX10 radial brake master cylinder for my R1.
Check the cylinder diameter before you buy so you know what you are doing to your hydraulic advantage. Its ok to change the ratio, just so you know how the brakes will feel ie,
Bigger cylinder = shorter stroke harder lever.
smaller cyclinder = longer stroke more brake power.
Dan


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I know it's been a while without many updates, this summer has been quite busy and I haven't had the time I thought I would. A couple of family emergencies, two family reunions and various other trips and engagements haven't left me much time to play. Little by little, things have been moving forward though. 

A few weeks ago I built a 12V test pack and got the BMS talking to it (like I mentioned before), but I also got the charger and a load hooked up to it and it will monitor cells and look for HVC and LVC and other faults. I can also turn off shunting if I want to go monitor-only and manually balance the pack. I've charged and discharged the test pack a few times and everything stays in balance very well.

The big news:
Last week I got my Bussbar sent to the waterjet and had them cut. A few holes were 5mm instead of 6mm, but that's easily fixed with a drill. They turned out really nice and I'm going to start putting my smaller rear pack together. The bussbar is made out of 1/16th solid copper.

I borrowed an IR tester from a buddy and want to start "binning" cells. It's an AC meter, but it should be enough to at least sort them in similar IR values. The idea here, is that I get simliar values paralleled so they all equally share current while discharged in parallel. If I had one with higher IR, and a couple with lower IR, the ones with Lower IR will discharge more current. I want to keep things as equally distributed as I can.

The shop that the bike is at is moving to another building, so I'm going to go get my bike and store it in my garage so I can get wiring and testing done on it, and maybe some fiberglass work done. I just need to finish the packs and then start working on some sort of battery box to put everything in, mount the charger, Contactor, DC-DC and controller and mount a box for the BMS and relays.

Anyway, here are some pics of the test pack and bussbar:


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Update from my blog:


> It’s been a slow summer. I’ve been too busy thi
> s summer to get much done and David moved his shop. I haven’t posted lately, but I have been doing things on and off. I’ve also been riding my SV650 a bit. Really glad I got this to practice on while the bike is being finished. I’d rather learn on this than the eVFR. I wouldn’t want to drop either, but I’d rather drop the SV650 (Has frame sliders) than the eVFR with rare fiberglass fairings.
> 
> A few weeks ago I decided I wanted to bin my cells. I borrowed an IR meter from a friend. It’s an AC impedance meter and I realize it won’t accurately give me the DC impedance, but it will allow me to organize the cells into groups of similar IR values. I spent a few nights with my girlfriend testing the cells and writing their IR value on them (she’s awesome!). I got ~150 cells that measured between 5.0-5.9mOhm and like 30 between 6.0-6.9mOhm. One I thought was above 7, but was just the leads not attached correctly. I had some cells that were test-cells and some that were showing low voltage, so I set those aside for testing and further study/destruction.
> ...


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Those copper bus bars are beautiful--and clever design. Did you use lock washers on all the screws? i've found fasteners from asia to be of poor quality and not acceptable for use...


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

kennybobby said:


> Those copper bus bars are beautiful--and clever design. Did you use lock washers on all the screws? i've found fasteners from asia to be of poor quality and not acceptable for use...


Thank!

It's just a mockup right now, trying to get the plastic machined ASAP so I can put them together finally. I will be replacing all of the hardware with SS screws and better lockwashers than what came with the cells.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Sadly I've decided to part my bike out, and sell all of my stuff. I actually sold the chassis and fairings last night. I'm putting the money towards the purchase of a Brammo Empulse R.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sorry to see a project die, but the Brammo should be fun.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I am sad too, it's definitely bittersweet.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, sad, but interesting choice.
Let us know about the advantage (or not) and the easiness of operation of the transmission on the brammo (useless?).


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