# So Apparently www.valence.com does not encourage entrepenours...



## chiques (Mar 9, 2009)

I inquired with this company to see if I can purchase some samples and apparently they are only selling to people to order in quantity. 

My 0.02:
If we are in a fairly intense recession, wouldn't you want to win every possible sale??? It must be my twisted ethics getting in my way. I guess I have to think more like AIG executives.



> Thank you for your interest in Valence Technology. We pride ourselves in delivering excellence at both product and service levels.
> 
> At this time Valence is experiencing a dramatic rise in demand for our products. As a result, management has set minimum order quantity requirements for all new opportunities, specifically targeting commercial fleet markets (ie multiple systems). It appears that your project falls short of the minimum order requirement and Valence is unable to respond to your inquiry. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
> 
> ...


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Get used to it. Most high tech companies like this have an elitist strategy. At least they were polite in their message to you and actually bothered to reply. TM4 in canada (quebec) was downright rude for me inquiring about their wheel motors. Practically told me to get lost in so many words.


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## chiques (Mar 9, 2009)

This is where a free market with competition is absolutely necessary.

Greed is getting in the way of progress.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Its also why I decided to source my batteries from mainland china. Turns out the chinese take lithium batteries very seriously, and their quality seems to be good as well. Go figure...

There is still some hope for companies like valence though. a123 systems was recently booted by GM (GM decided to try an source direct from korea) so all of the sudden their batteries are being made available to smaller customers. PML flightlink was into making advanced wheel motors and also didn't want anything to do with privateers like us. Their in bankruptcy protection last I heard. oops, that worked well!

Stick around, chiques. There are smaller, more humble startups that are slowly filling the void left by these porkers in the wake of the 2008 bust. But expect to sift though dozens of suppliers before you find one that you can do business with. Thats just the way it is unfortunately.

DON'T GIVE UP!!


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

What makes you think that Valence quality is any better than Thundersky or Hipower or any other Asian made cells? Is that just because they are priced so freaking high? I read somewhere that a conversion with Valence batteries didn't go so well because batteries died untimely death.

I personally don't have much history with my Thundersky cells yet, but so far I am very impressed with their quality and support I get from Elite Power where I bought them, which is based in Arizona, BTW. And they were competitively priced with direct order from China, which was probably half the price of Valence if those bastards would even take my money.

So, please apply your free market spirit and buy cheaper and more available product and let's see who wins in the long term. Maybe that would teach them the lesson, although I highly doubt it.


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## chiques (Mar 9, 2009)

I really appreciate your opinions. Its a bit of relief that I'm not the only one seeing this silly business model.

I'll keep looking around and reading up on what users report.

Thanks again for the feedback!


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

david85 said:


> ...PML flightlink was into making advanced wheel motors and also didn't want anything to do with privateers like us. Their in bankruptcy protection last I heard. oops, that worked well!


Good news. PML Flightlink have been bought out:


PMLFlightlink.com said:


> Electric Motor Works Limited has acquired the business and assets of PML Flightlink Limited pursuant to a sale conducted by PML Flightlink’s administrators.


Hopefully that means good news for us small EV makers...


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## speculawyer (Feb 10, 2009)

This biz is in a very weird state. Lots of these companies seem close to bankruptcy . . . yet there is this possible EV revolution about to start and this government stimulus money, DoE loans, DoE grants, & EV tax-credits. So they've got some leverage.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

PML/EMW have got a video up of the Hi-Pa Drive F150 in their Facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=45545596094#/video/video.php?v=40757696261&oid=45545596094

I've put a couple of comments on it. We'll see if they get answered.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Didn't someone post, recently, that Valence Batteries ARE made in China ??? Could have sworn I read that on here, some where. ???


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I think they are indeed made in china.


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## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

Maybe I'm nuts but I agree with Valence's policies. Honestly if I was a multimillion dollar company I would not dedicate my resources to serving the little guy who might only be ordering $10k or less batteries. EV's are seeing a huge surge right now with tons of private and govt. money flowing their way, and I have a feeling Valence is devoting most of its resources to making sure they get a piece of the pie. 

You guys need to remember, its a business not a charity. Whether you can buy directly from them or not or not we will all eventually benefit as the technology trickles down.


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## chiques (Mar 9, 2009)

jorhyne said:


> Maybe I'm nuts but I agree with Valence's policies. Honestly if I was a multimillion dollar company I would not dedicate my resources to serving the little guy who might only be ordering $10k or less batteries. EV's are seeing a huge surge right now with tons of private and govt. money flowing their way, and I have a feeling Valence is devoting most of its resources to making sure they get a piece of the pie.
> 
> You guys need to remember, its a business not a charity. Whether you can buy directly from them or not or not we will all eventually benefit as the technology trickles down.



Yup, BearStearns, AIG, Citi, Enron and GM all had the same concept...make the big bucks quick!!! Forget about these small start up / common worker deals that can lead to long term business.

*Where are they at now?*


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

> You guys need to remember, its a business not a charity.


 Why would anyone get the idea that DIY guys are looking for CHARITY ???

Price is price. Everyone looks to get a better price. The USA is one of a very few countries, that dickering is not used much.

AS with a couple guys here, BULK pricing could be done, but, at a higher price than to OEM builders. Still, the problem is, no one will sell LiFePo4 batteries FROM the states. 

Wouldn't surprise me none, that WalMart could be selling LiFePo4's, if they see an opportunity. They already have Chinese factories, for other goods, from what I have read ???


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

> its a business not a charity


That's exactly what A123 thought when they were bidding for Chevy Volt battery supply against Korean LG..... doh, I bet they are scratching their dumb asses now , serves them right.

If only they flooded the US market with their cells, sell them in every Walmart, instead of only DeWalt packs, they would have much better chance with Chevy, albeit at lower price point, but long term business model.

Dumb morons executives trained for short term goals, not seeing farther their noses, that is what's wrong with US business everywhere. That and the short attention span of investors, looking to make a quick buck!


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## DoranDude (Dec 15, 2008)

Quote: that is what's wrong with US business everywhere

Sorry, not just US businesses! I am currently employed (thank God) by a US business that was bought up by a major German pharmaceutical company. Our business plan to date has resulted in pretty good growth, not spectacular, but sustainable and long sighted.

Since the takeover, focus has been placed primarily on big ticket projects with massive revenue potential (and huge downside potential as well), leaving funding scarce for what had been our core business model.

Business is business, and it doesn't matter what country you're in.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

The issue wasn't really price, it was the notion that as privateers we are not allowed to buy the product directly at any price high or low.


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## chiques (Mar 9, 2009)

DoranDude said:


> Quote: ...
> 
> Business is business, and it doesn't matter what country you're in.


Another .02
GM, Linens and Things, Circuit City were big a big business models that had ridiculous expectations for growth in a bubble economy. On the other hand, focused more realistic companies such as Smart and Final realize growth is not linear and plan for it accordingly. They realize they need to follow the middle class status. If you don't serve the lower and middle class (and lower middle) [related to topic of this post] you will eventually bust.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

As far as I can tell Valence is way overpriced for what they offer, so no loss there. PML flightlink never demonstrated their claimed performance of the wheel motors, so again, no loss there either.


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

Say what ? PML Flightlink built and demo'd the Mini QED, a Ford F150 pickup truck, and a Volvo project. In what way did they "never demonstrate their claimed performance" ? Did you ever watch the video of the Mini QED smoking all four tires on launch ?


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

dreamer said:


> Say what? Did you ever watch the video of the Mini QED smoking all four tires on launch?


I've seen the videos of the Volvo ReCharge and the F150 driving around a test track, at not particularly high speed, and with so much wind noise you can't tell if there's an ICE in there or not. I must say, I missed the video of the Mini QED spinning it's wheels. That would be good to see. Got a link?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

dreamer said:


> Did you ever watch the video of the Mini QED smoking all four tires on launch ?


I sure didn't. I remember reading claims, but never saw a video. Do you have a web link to that?


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## dschill (Mar 19, 2009)

gotta love the made in china stuff..


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

dreamer said:


> Say what ? PML Flightlink built and demo'd the Mini QED, a Ford F150 pickup truck, and a Volvo project. In what way did they "never demonstrate their claimed performance" ? Did you ever watch the video of the Mini QED smoking all four tires on launch ?


No, and apparently I'm not alone. As others have stated I've never seen a PML product doing anything other than moving at low speed.


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

I wonder when Valence changed their policy?

I remember about ~3 years ago when I had to replace the Lead Acid batteries that failed in a electric lawn mower when a power surge messed up the charger... I called Valence at the time... they gave me a quote and didn't have any problem selling me as an individual a 24V replacement pack... I just didn't want to spend the $2,000 + Shipping that they quoted me.


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