# ZakPak Calb_CA+A123 cell group, curing the cliff



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I think you need to try some high discharge testing to really prove if it's a worthwhile combo. If possible you should measure the current between the cells in parallel to see what kind of "recharge" currents are moving from the calb to the A123 pack if the A123 has just taken the brunt of a high current discharge.
I'd be curious to see a 500-1000A test though to see if there is real benefit.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't really have a means of testing this but both battery pack loops will connect in parallel to the controller input so thay can't help but add to each other. I'm especially pleased with the change in shape of the output curve. I'm running a CA100 + 2 x A123 test now and will add it when it finishes.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> I don't really have a means of testing this but both battery pack loops will connect in parallel to the controller input so thay can't help but add to each other. I'm especially pleased with the change in shape of the output curve. I'm running a CA100 + 2 x A123 test now and will add it when it finishes.


If your results look good this could become a good compromise by adding say one or two A123 cell to a 60Ah Calb cell you would have a nice pack (based on my goals)


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

In my Superbeetle I've got 32 CA100 cells, 16 on each side, from under the front seats straight back to the original battery well. One in front, two rows of 5 on their short sides, and the last row vertical in the well area. All as low as they can possibly be, it should handle like it's been converted to a mid engine. 64 A123s in the spare tire well in front. Maybe 64 more A123s somewhere else.


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## ev-converter (May 24, 2012)

Zak650 said:


> In my Superbeetle I've got 32 CA100 cells, 16 on each side, from under the front seats straight back to the original battery well. One in front, two rows of 5 on their short sides, and the last row vertical in the well area. All as low as they can possibly be, it should handle like it's been converted to a mid engine. 64 A123s in the spare tire well in front. Maybe 64 more A123s somewhere else.


After completeing many differant Li-ion configurations since 2004 in conversions I have the following comment, DONT DO IT. The results will be uncertain and a disaster. Been there and done it. You probably wont take my advise, do it and destroy the batteries.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

ev-converter said:


> After completeing many differant Li-ion configurations since 2004 in conversions I have the following comment, DONT DO IT. The results will be uncertain and a disaster. Been there and done it. You probably wont take my advise, do it and destroy the batteries.


Don't do what, where, what are you refering to, you have to be more specific if you are going to give advice. Otherwise there is nothing in particular for me to reconsider. If it is vertical versus horizintal, all but 4 could be positioned vertically. Or are you talking about mixing Calb and A123 cells?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> I don't really have a means of testing this but both battery pack loops will connect in parallel to the controller input so thay can't help but add to each other.


Sounds fun! I'm doing a similar experiment, but with lead and lithium http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74502

Ideally for this project you would have two JLD404s or other AH counters, one on each branch so you can see how the load sharing works while under full acceleration, and then how the equalizing works while cruising/stopped.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Sounds fun! I'm doing a similar experiment, but with lead and lithium http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74502
> 
> Ideally for this project you would have two JLD404s or other AH counters, one on each branch so you can see how the load sharing works while under full acceleration, and then how the equalizing works while cruising/stopped.


Interesting, I wonder if you could use the Lee Hart balancer to do the same thing? Or maybe just a simple ampmeter to see which pack is feeding which? I prefer keeping things as simple as possible though and figure buss bars or straight connections will keep things in balance


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I'm not sure how the balancer would tell you anything, other than if they're in balance (they won't be while driving). A simple ammeter, if it can handle large negatives, could tell you how much is flowing where, but it is much more useful to know how much flowed in total, over time.

You have to have an AH counter to run a lithium pack anyway, but two would make more sense for your setup. What do you have planned?

Oh, and another question...what are you using the rear shelf space for? And are you keeping the back seat in?


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I'm not sure how the balancer would tell you anything, other than if they're in balance (they won't be while driving). A simple ammeter, if it can handle large negatives, could tell you how much is flowing where, but it is much more useful to know how much flowed in total, over time.
> 
> You have to have an AH counter to run a lithium pack anyway, but two would make more sense for your setup. What do you have planned?
> 
> Oh, and another question...what are you using the rear shelf space for? And are you keeping the back seat in?


I have a cycleanylist so far as my only instrument on hand but I'm not turning any wheels yet so there's a lot yet to be decided but leaning toward the JDL. My bug is going to be powered by two Sevcon Gen4 8035 controllers feeding twin PMAC motors mostly used in motorcycles via tooth belt drive. Motors are horizontal, canted down at 10 degrees, one on each side, motors in front, belts to the rear, Aluminum flywheel with clutch. All electronices will reside inside the cab, deck over the rear seat location. This leave practically the entire engine bay empty 3" above the centerline. A micro pickup bed fits in that space for carrying heavy objects and a 7-9kw generator for travelling out of range. If you are going to build it yourself it might as well be what you want.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Sounds cool. I've always liked bug-trucks. So since you already have a CA, I'd recommend running that on your main line, and a pair of JLDs on each string ($170 to add both). That way you'd know exactly how much power you're using everywhere, and exactly how efficient the paralleling is.


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