# The perfect design for EV Drag Racing!



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Why such a heavy car?

For a drag car should be as light as possible - my road car will be ~ 500Kg and its all cheap and cheerful bits!

If it was just for drag racing with some money spent - aim for 250Kg

If an FI car can drive up to 350Kph for 2 hours - or 200 miles and have to be ballasted to get up to 650Kg a car to go 1/4 mile should be a lot lighter

Maybe you should aim for less than 200Kg


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## Dennis (Feb 25, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Lightest car you can build, 1500lbs to 2500lbs.
> Largest motors with massive amounts of torque for low end.
> HV Motors for added hp/rpm's for top end.
> Single shift transmission to utilize torque.
> ...



For high voltage I would use a single 11" interpoled motor such as a Warp 11 HV with NO timing advance because it is absolutely pointless when you have interpoles. Ideally, I would also like the motor to have compensating windings, but that would be asking for too much.

The motor's armature ends would be steel banding plus Kevlar layers on both the end turns on the DE and the connections going to the riser on the NDE side. I would have the motor balanced with very low vibration at 6500 RPM and I would use hybrid ceramic bearings to reduce friction as much as possible. Finally, I would have the fan removed and use forced induction instead, and have the copper coils that go into the commutator riser be TIG welded instead of soldered with that silver solder. I prefer an ISO certified plus EASA member motor repair shop do all this.

My vehicle choice would be a Caterham Seven made as light as possible and fully roll caged. I would not know all the details to do because I am not an expert with making a vehicle designed to work well on a drag strip. I would have to hire some experienced people. My gear ratio at the rear end would be 2.33:1. The transmission would be a Gear Vendors with first gear at 1.5:1 and second gear at 1:1 with auto shift at 5000 RPM.

Battery voltage would be at 330 volts nominal and all cabling would be 000 AWG welding cable. The controller would a Zilla 2K set at motor amps of 1200 amps and motor volts at 300 volts. Battery amps would be set at 1200 amps so that I can get to a theoretical peak horsepower point of 482 HP at 1200 amp draw at 300 motor volts. In reality it would be in the low 400's or so hp if you take into account the losses and voltage sag. I would not know which lithium battery to use until I did a 160 amp test on all the different kinds to see which one holds a decent voltage at that draw. Then I would have 8 paralleled and each paralleled set wired in a series string of 92 to get 330 volts with the pack weighing roughly 800 lbs or so.

There are a few other miscellaneous things I would need to do, but the above are the main things I would do.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Imagine dual warp11HV's....with Dual Zilla Z2K's....with Ron's new Lipo's....

1000hp @ 5000rpm
1200ftlbs @ 0-5000rpm

Warp11HV = 3,300$
ZillaZ2KEHV = 5,200$
Total = 8,500$ x2 = 17,000$

Battery Pack = 30,000$
1000cells 
370V (100S)
60AH (10P) 3000A cont. 4000A peak 
331lbs
22.2KWH


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> Imagine dual warp11HV's....with Dual Zilla Z2K's....with Ron's new Lipo's....
> 
> 1000hp @ 5000rpm
> 1200ftlbs @ 0-5000rpm
> ...


Hey, who are you? Have you been bugging my phone? LOL

They don't produce a TransWarpHV 32 spline and a WarpHV 32 spline yet, they might be available with a very special order. If they did it would fit my Camaro as a direct replacement motors.

The Zilla 2K's EHV are now available.

The battery pack is a done deal.

Just some added info, the 11" HV motors can give you up to 9000 rpm's!
The 11" HV motors lose 10% of torque compared to the non-HV motors, not a big deal, I can compensate with gearing. This set-up would put "Warp Factor II" in the 8's possibly 7's! I am already in the 9's with only 215 volts and little HP.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> .................................................................. This set-up would put "Warp Factor II" in the 8's possibly 7's! I am already in the 9's with only 215 volts and little HP.



So you've run in the 9s - Congratulations. When? Where?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Hey, who are you? Have you been bugging my phone? LOL
> 
> They don't produce a TransWarpHV 32 spline and a WarpHV 32 spline yet, they might be available with a very special order. If they did it would fit my Camaro as a direct replacement motors.
> 
> ...


HAHAHA, just a fan of the technology and it's extreme potential.

You are correct I have read that motors can spin up to 9000rpm as well, however its worth noting the peak power will be limited to 4-5000rpm, still very useful area under the curve, I guess its limited by voltage and by the physical limits of the materials used in the motor, and maybe some physics, who the hell knows...

I would sacrifice the peak torque number anytime of the day for more Voltage/rpm, as you mentioned, gearing and rpm can take care of the rest...look at the E46M3, 262ftlbs of crank torque, -15% for driveline losses and you have 222ftlbs wtq @ 5000rpm...below 5000rpm there is LESS than 222wtq, but gearing and rpm is what can accelerate a 3400lb car from 0-60 in 4.8 seconds...


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Has anyone actually verified this 9000 rpm number for an 11 inch motor? That is 2x the speed (and 4x the centrifugal force for the same diameter commutator) of other 11 inch motors, that seems like an amazing leap in technology to hold copper together at those forces. What is the secret sauce for that?

Whoever tests this first: Please report your results! I'd also suggest treating it like a high rpm racing pressure plate and flywheel, and surround it with a scatter shield.


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> ... the 11" HV motors can give you up to 9000 rpm's! ...


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> This set-up would put "Warp Factor II" in the 8's possibly 7's! I am already in the 9's with only 215 volts and little HP.


Ron, 

Again, please don't count the chicken before they hatch! When did you do 9' ? 
First do 9' then you can say you did 9'.


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## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Has anyone actually verified this 9000 rpm number for an 11 inch motor? That is 2x the speed (and 4x the centrifugal force for the same diameter commutator) of other 11 inch motors, that seems like an amazing leap in technology to hold copper together at those forces. What is the secret sauce for that?
> 
> Whoever tests this first: Please report your results! I'd also suggest treating it like a high rpm racing pressure plate and flywheel, and surround it with a scatter shield.


David,
George has told me they have run their motors to 9K under no-load conditions on a bench. I too would like to see the results of an 11" motor pulling full load at 9000 RPM. I suspect hopes and reality strongly diverge at that point 

Mike


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

From what Jack Rickard has said the 11" HV uses a rotor similar in size to a 9" motor, that's how they fit the interpoles, and why the torque is lower. The outside diameter is also not exactly the same as the standard 11", so it's not a bolt in replacement.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Electrabishi and JRP3:

Thanks for that extra info. 9000 rpm is still an impressive number, but a smaller diameter rotating mass makes it more believable.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> ...but a smaller commutator makes it more believable.


I thought a larger commutator was better - more contact area for the brushes? I thought the problem with the larger motors spinning higher RPM was mainly due to the mass of the rotor (centrifugal forces)? I also thought that the smaller rotor in the HV motor, and higher RPM capability, were due to the interpoles, not the physical size of the armature and commutator. I could be wrong on all counts, of course. Major?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The rotor has a smaller diameter to make room for the interpoles. It's possible that the commutator diameter is larger than the 9 inch if it's outside the interpole area, maybe? Major?


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Whoops on my post, I just meant generically spinning mass being smaller diameter would allow more rpm, not necessarily only the commutator (although there are pics of a commutator blown up due to high rpm).


JRP3 said:


> The rotor has a smaller diameter to make room for the interpoles. It's possible that the commutator diameter is larger than the 9 inch if it's outside the interpole area, maybe? Major?


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