# Ze062 EV Corvette



## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

428RC said:


> first off is the battery conversion from 3P to 2P. I pulled apart the first module by using a chisel to cut the battery tab spot welds away from the bus bars. this confirmed the construction was as I had imagined as well as demonstrates the way to move forward. The tabs are also welded to each other, but I do not have to separate the tabs on side opposite the terminals since they are common polarity. I will have to separate those on the other side as well as flip one of the battery packs to make the polarity common. the sketch below shows the configuration of the 6 cell (in 3 housings) groups. I was able to separate the tabs by cutting the tabs right at the weld line. this leaves enough of the tab for several reassembly methods I am considering.


I trust that your planned connection method will work, but it would have been nice to save more of those tabs, perhaps by punching out the welded spots instead of cutting off much of the tab.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

thanx Brian, the negative tabs are line welded and the positive ones are spot welded, so there is not much left if you take out the weld. they come off the bus bars pretty clean by being patient and careful, and making sure the chisel is sharp, but where 2 tabs are welded over top each other, they rip when I try to separate them, and I do not want to stress the tab to pouch side. on these two cases by cutting it right at the weld, I conserve the most possible, there is only about 1/8-1/4 beyond the weld. I only have to do this for the 2 tabs in the plus/minus combined pair, in all other cases I conserve the entire tab.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

pulled the 62 out from under the router where it has been stored since July 2012. I hope to get this into the working side of the shop and do some scans, although I haven't worked out the logistics of the scanning. If I cant beg, borrow or rent one, I may see if I can do it with share ware and multiple pictures.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I got a little free time tonight so i started on the second battery. I don't have the method down perfectly for breaking the spot welds on the tabs, some pop right off, and others are fighting for every fraction. once each section is finished I remove the bus, this disconnects the groups so the other side is easier. I was clamping the battery but the plastic that the bus bars are riveted to started to move, I put it up on end and that solves the issue and makes the whole thing more stable. just for reference, this is about an hour of work.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

more work on battery disassembly. I finished the 2nd and got half way through the 3rd. I also removed the stock batteries from the bench as I want to put all the disassembled parts there. I moved my grinder next to my chair so I can sharpen often. While giving my fingers a break from the chisel, I slipped a putty knife in between one of the pouch batteries in a plus/minus frame. I get 5 of these per battery so I need to figure out how to separate one battery and flip it. I shot alcohol into the gap of the putty knife to see if it would loosen up, it did not. I can't tell from the Munro video how the batteries are held in but you can see some residue on the plate on the one they did take apart. I will have 9 spare 2 pouch frames when all is done, so I think the next step is to cut the side off the frame to see if there are mechanical tabs or if it is just adhesive.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I did manage to get one of the cells removed. turns out the alcohol was effective on the suspected glue joint. Confirmed it is a simple rectangle of green colored glue and no thermal paste or putty. I tried a couple different solvents other than alcohol, since the alcohol is only marginally effective. So far the best has been acetone. I continued disassembling and now have 4 batteries broken down into 3 pair sets. I have some googone ordered so I will try that as well. My hope is I can dissolve the glue enough that removal does not require any prying, which I did have to do for this first one. i will segregate this set of batteries as suspect. not sure how the pouch cells react to getting bending or localized compressions.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

428RC said:


> I have some googone ordered so I will try that as well.


I suspect acetone is going to be the winner.

Goo-gone is for gummier things, but give it a whirl.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

tedious I know, but one more battery disassembled into groups of three. i hope to get the last two this far over the weekend, then start separating the groups of three.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I completed the 6th battery and I am half way finished with the 7th. I had the idea to use stickers to mark the battery polarity, but the stickers didn't show up until this week. I will go back through all of the previous ones and mark them as I separate the groups of 3. in the breaks between hammering to rest my fingers, I am setting up a 3D scan experiment with a place to take multiple angle photos on a part. I used two florescent light reflectors to make a small chamber with a black sheet for a background. I have some LED work lights to set up and I purchased a used but VGC Nikon D5000 DSLR. which I have no idea how to use but will have to learn. this will allow me to take many varied angle pictures of a battery frame and then use some shareware software to combine them into a 3D model. I am hoping this will work. If so, I will use this process to get a 3D model of the engine bay and relevant frame sections of the 62.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

finished the 7th battery disassembly. In reviewing the fastening torque and the bolt I noticed these are shoulder bolts, so they intentionally are not applying torgued compression to the stack. Before separating these modules completely I removed all of the foam pads to determine the design clearance of the four shoulder bolts. with the foam removed I clamped the stack tight to find that there is .12"-.13" clearance. when I reformat these to 24 modules, I will design with a similar clearance extrapolated for 24 instead of 15. I also cleaned the thermal putty strips and removed them, saving them in a clean container. I am hoping I can figure out a way to reconstitute these and reapply. in any case it is in the way so needed to be removed. I also got my lighting set up for the 3D scan photo setup, but still have not set up the camera for pictures.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

camera lighting setup


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I'm wondering if that putty is reusable, post-compression. I guess you'll find out.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

thanx Remy. it is not soft anymore, I am hoping I can either kneed it, or maybe add something like alcohol to soften it temporarily. I am not sure if it is a two part that already reacted, or if it has cured in some way. I will try, as I know this is an expensive component. I don't hold a lot of hope, but no reason to throw it away without trying. The the the EV Jeep team @D&VsEVJeep have an alternative identified, I will ask again when I get to that point.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

finished breaking down the batteries to the 2 pouch slices. all of the ones on the left are the mixed polarity slices. I will need to convert all but 8 of these to common polarity. I did get another solvent to try.


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## D&VsEVJeep (Dec 9, 2021)

Looks like you are enjoying the disassembly process as much as I am...


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

yes I am!  the mixed polarity ones are being a real challenge. should have held out for 4P units...... I may have a very slow process figured out, but so far I am 0 for 2


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

so, bad news is the glue used on these battery slices is too aggressive and the battery pouch skin is too fragile for me to remove and flip one pouch on the mixed polarity slices. this is 1/3 of the batteries I have recovered from the 3P Mach-e batteries. the good news is, that I believe I can still use them by cutting two slices in half so that I can put a half slice on each end, this will allow me to use the mixed slices unmolested. In weighing risk reward, this is the best solution for me to use the batteries I have purchased. At this point this is my plan moving forward. I believe all of the other design for the strengthener and terminal ties will be identical, so it isnt that much of a departure. Also this allows for the future expansion to 3P if I end up wanting to go that way after using the car. packs 1 and 2 will be fully unmolested recovered slices, battery 3 will be all but 2, unmolested. I have several with one battery removed, so I will try to buy 2 new pouch cells to complete these, which would also make them unmolested. for the fourth battery I will need to use the half cells at each end and the rest would be the unmolested mixed polarity sets. I think this plan is going to be best. I will not be building these for quite a while, so if I find some more mach-e batteries for sale before I build I may just take the hit and buy enough to complete the 4 set. not what I had planned, but I will make it work.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yup - that pouch skin has zero sense of humor. Stinks like heck when the cell starts bleeding, as well.

Salvage Mach-E's are fetching more money than a Tesla Model S, so it'll be a while.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

today I mocked up a 24 cell battery layout. I drilled the end plate and tapped it to 5/16-24NF. then after stacking 24 slices I added the opposite end plate and 4 threaded rods. I clamped the stack together and using low profile nyloc nuts I set the clearance to ~.19". this is calculated from the measurement I took on the shoulder bolts for the 15 slice stack. (.12/15)X24=.192. I plan to weld these nuts in place and cut the threaded rod flush. I am either going to add a stop on the other side or just turn the rosd in so that the end is flush to set the final height at assembly.

one thing maybe the EE's out there can answer. As I look at each feature of the assembly, I see they are taking great pains to prevent any metal from touching the plastic on the individual battery carriers and the heat sink tab on the bottom of the carriers. the shoulder bolt diameter is cleared by a good distance. I think I will grind the inner portion of these threaded rods and also maybe add shrink wrap so it is insulated from the plastic of the carriers. is this to prevent any type of voltage loss? is it feasible that there would be losses through the plastic or if the heatsinks touch metal?


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

corvette is finally moved over to the north bay where it is accessible. I am still looking at scanning options. I really want to see if i can borrow an iPad pro 4th or 5th gen to scan it. Otherwise I may look at renting a handheld scanner once I get everything removed to make the areas I want scanned accessible.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

been busy working on the donor car related stuff, I did put together a nice body cart from the leftover legs from the gantry crane. I am going to pull the body so i can get the ICE parts disassembled.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I received the body sling for the corvette today, i mocked up the sling arrangement, but i do not like the way it will stress the spreader bars in the doors. i will likely add some 2X4's to hold the sling farther out. I am also getting set up to do nickel plating on the tab clamps for the batteries. I hope to figure out how to nickel plate aluminum, but if that doesn't work (likely will not) I may just use nickel plated steel rather than copper, seems like the conductivity of steel versus copper is moot in this application, but i do need to prevent oxidation.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I've used Caswell Plating for home plating supplies in the past.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> I've used Caswell Plating for home plating supplies in the past.


their kits are nice but very pricey, more geared toward a cosmetic finish. I just need a functional finish.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Electroless nickel plating aluminum is possible but kinda toxic, waste chemicals nobody wants to deal with. Original Surface condition determines the finish for thin coats on any plating process. Polished base surface with relatively thick layers of plating makes things smooth and shiney.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

thanx, I am rethinking because aluminum requires zinc (toxic process), then copper (not bad) and then nickel (again not bad). I am leaning toward steel instead, which can be immediately nickel coated. this is for brackets that would clamp the pouch battery tabs together, so they could be non-conductive and not change the contact from battery to battery. in fact, if I could get a strong enough material at the thickness I want that is non-conductive it would be preferable I think.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

lifted the body off of the chassis this weekend.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I'm guessing once you get all your brackets etc welded onto the frame that you'll send it out for blast and powder coat? Surprising it was bare metal.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

yes, that was the plan 15 yrs ago, things got in the way and an unexpected move to Iowa and a non-climate controlled garage got the better of it...... still the same plan just a little more blasting


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

LS1 is removed from the chassis


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I have now removed the transaxle and re-installed the rear cradle. I need to figure out a scanner strategy. I want to scan the chassis as it is now, then re-assemble the body and scan the engine bay, the body underside in front of the cradle and the gas tank pocket. if someone out there rents or knows of a handheld scanner rental service please let me know. worst case I will try to find a used one somewhere. thanx


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Looking at that 2nd pic, are you sure you can't jog that plumbing behind the upper control arm rear bracket so it just clears around the LDU's motor plus inverter assembly?


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> Looking at that 2nd pic, are you sure you can't jog that plumbing behind the upper control arm rear bracket so it just clears around the LDU's motor plus inverter assembly?


thanx Remy, yeah, the lower rear arm mounting points are too close to center for it to fit, also the drive centerline is very close to the front of the cradle which keeps the LDU motor and Inverter inside the cradle front to back. Of course that is referencing my very coarse 3D model. this is why I have done nothing on the battery assembly or the LDU and cradle. I am awaiting scan data then cardboard mockups to be sure . I like to measure more than twice. I still make big mistakes, but I do try to limit their impacts.....


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I'd even look at ditching the 'vette rear subframe and fabbing one. With CV joint axles, you're allowed to push the drive unit forward or back as well as up and down. Even turn it around...

You already have the DU, so gut it (you need to for the bearings rework anyway), and use it as a mockup unit before you stuff all the gears, bearings etc back into the case 🤓 

You don't even have to crawl under the car 🤬

This is the time - real hotrodders never had 3d scanners or CAD drawings...


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> I'd even look at ditching the 'vette rear subframe and fabbing one. With CV joint axles, you're allowed to push the drive unit forward or back as well as up and down. Even turn it around...
> 
> You already have the DU, so gut it (you need to for the bearings rework anyway), and use it as a mockup unit before you stuff all the gears, bearings etc back into the case 🤓
> 
> ...


absolutely, I was planning to weld up a new subframe. Still waffling on the AL vs FE. I was waiting to take apart the drive though, my thought is to get the battery done, then hook up the unmolested drive, then take it apart. otherwise i will never know if it doesnt work if it was already bad or if I broke something. I think I would like to ge tthe fixtured mockup electronics and motor running on the bench before taking it apart. of course plan evolve but that is the draft plan for now. I think I can mock it up reasonably with a sonotube or a pvc pipe construction.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

as i am too frugal (cheap  ) to buy a 3D scanner outright, I have to make other plans. I put the frame up on I-beams to level and stabilize it off the suspension, then I made some spacers and bolted 2 12ft long angle iron sections to create a reference plane. the reference plane is levelled to the top of the frame, this also left it level with the bottom of the frame, so good fab. I will just measure the distance down and from the front, and get the left right distance for each symmetric node of the frame. i already see a lot of differences from my CAD. notably the width of the frame section in front of the rear cradle. this may be good news as I was reminded recently (2 posts previous  ) the LDU can be reversed with a reverse oil pump as well as slightly forward because of the CV joints. I would very much prefer to keep the LDU fully intact.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Watchit - you're doing it old school 😂


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## D&VsEVJeep (Dec 9, 2021)

428RC said:


> as i am too frugal (cheap  ) to buy a 3D scanner outright...


Do you have an iPhone? I used an iPhone 12 and an app for our first scan and it turned out remarkably well...


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

D&VsEVJeep said:


> Do you have an iPhone? I used an iPhone 12 and an app for our first scan and it turned out remarkably well...


Thanx, I do not have an iphone. I looked at renting one. they wanted $1000 deposit which made me cautious that I would end up having to buy it at their discretion. I was wondering if anyone here had used the new iphone with lidar on a car. we did a coffee maker at work as a test with one of my coworker's iphone 12 pro and it was pretty lumpy and not well defined. In the end I didnt want to risk the money for something I wasnt sure would work well enough to add value.

attached is the coffee maker scan using an iPhone 12 Pro. doesn't look anything like what you see in the youtube stuff. Likely we had settings "wrong", but this was with the only free software and then I needed to change the output file on a shareware program since they want you to "upgrade" to a subscription cost so it can output a reasonable format.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Anyone interested in 3D scanning for automotive projects - or just for some entertainment - might want to check out SuperfastMatt in YouTube:


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

With the surgery he's likely going to be doing, an iPhone12 needs a lot of epoxy for it to act as a locating jig for building a new subframe for the LDU.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

1 days worth of measuring done, and not looking good for the 1 piece LDU. thanx for the video link. I came to pretty much the same conclusion although the recent addition of the Einstar to the mix is tempting. I think I will just end up with tape measure CAD, and cardboard mockups for verification.....


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I brought the Tesla LDU down from storage (very heavy) so i can measure it. I also removed the rear suspension so I could measure the mount points. I have modelled a rear clip that will take the drive without splitting it in two. Now I have to decide if I want to cut off the rear clip and redo it, or try to wedge the split drive into the current space. I am leaning toward the new clip, but I want to noodle it for a while before I commit


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

turned the beams to make the rear suspension mounting points easier to measure. And lots of walking from the house to the shop to transfer measurements to my 3D. many things are coming into focus as I rebuild the model.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

much to my delight, a very nice tubing bender popped up on Craigslist last night. I sent a response but didn't hear anything, I sent another today around 1030 and the owner replied he still had it. so 4 hours later I made the purchase in Jenson Beach FL. this was purchased in 2016 and never unboxed. it included 4 dies and a notcher. Very excited to open it all up tomorrow.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Nice rig


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I have worked out what I think is a reasonable set of changes to the rear frame to make room for the Tesla large drive unit. Now that I have a bender it opened up some options. Although this still requires more work to finalize, but looks promising. The green frame is removable to service the LDU.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

with the tesla drive fit settled, I want to shift back to the battery for a more detailed fitment verification. I did an initial tape measure generated model to look at the battery position and engine bay size. this shows it is close, I will need to reduce the enclosure, but that was expected. I think my next major step will be to put the body back on the chassis and get a more detailed layout and mockup the battery for final positioning.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Don't forget that you can now try to fit around 150lb of battery in front of the LDU, now that its butt is hanging out. 

You should have room to move the weight around, with this degree of freedom, to balance the car vs making it noseheavy. This will also improve the polar moment a bit.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

thanx, yeah I am going to have to redo the weight distribution calculations, and I plan to weigh the 4 corners of the frame and body to baseline. In the end I want to keep the battery together and try to incorporate as much of the HV items close if not attached to the battery. I think that will end up pretty balanced, but will adjust as more info is found.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I have been trying to learn to nickel plate in preparation for making the battery clamp plates. its not as easy as they make it look on Youtube, but am getting there. I am practicing on the pins in the tubing bender I just bought. each one has been a little better than the last, and I don't need a show finish. this pin is the result of about 4 days of experimenting so far. So now I am a little more confident I can do the clamps myself. I will also get it quoted to get them professionally plated, now that i know the amount of work to do it myself for comparison.. I also got an ultrasonic thickness gage to check tube thicknesses on the chassis in a nondestructive way, unfortunately the one I received is not working. I have a replacement coming so hopefully I can get those numbers this weekend and get material on monday while I am on vacation.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Never heard of thickness measurements with u/s, let alone thinking it would have the resolution or power to do the job.

More details here as you do this step would be interesting to learn.

Plating _looks_ good...how will you assess peel strength, as it could start peeling over time like the chrome (nickel is a precursor in chrome plating iirc) on a 63 Chevy bumper?


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

thanx. yea, I was doing research on how to measure and hit on the thought of drag race inspection of rollbars, sure enough the search brought me to this device. it looks pretty accurate from the specs. the calibration plate is 4mm steel, so capacity is no issue. I will post results, then once I cut I can confirm.

I want to get a skotchbrite pad for the grinder to polish these, I may go back and add some more thickness but one of them has enough on it to be snug in the bender.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

the nickel buffed out very well with the skotchbrite wheel on the 3 pins that are finished. Very happy with the finish on these after buffing. I also got the replacement US gage and checked the large tube thickness as well as the angle iron to verify. looks good, so Monday I will be getting 2"x.12wall tubing for the Tesla LDU mods.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

4130?

So, is it a boy or a girl? 😂


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

I picked up the aluminum stock to make a set of battery cooling plates yesterday. So today I finalized the plate design and dropped it into my CAM package. I generated the toolpaths and tested them in Mach3. seems to be working OK, its been a while since I have used the CNC Bridgeport, so it is good things are going well. I hope to cut a wood sample this week.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

our bathroom remodel is keeping me out of the shop, but on the EV front, I purchased a model3 charger with an openinverter control board and also a thunderstruck BMS satellite from a member here. those should be here next week. hopefully by then the bathroom will be finished.....


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## 1967 Ranchero (1 mo ago)

Sounds like you have it figured out, but I have heard of people using an xbox kinect device for a 3d scanner. Here's a link for a basic overview Kinect 3D Scanner


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

There are all kinds of scanners and schemes (photogrammetry) out there.

For this kind of work, the toy scanners are next to worthless. No point in scanning if the accuracy is off by 10mm and you have to pull measurements (being done in this project). They're fine for gaming models, but almost useless for the kinds of stuff we aspire to do here.

Electrified Veronica on Youtube did a good job covered 3D scanning of @D&VsEVJeep Jeep Sahara project. Suggest you spend a few minutes viewing that one.


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

there have been a few black friday deals on low-end purpose-built scanners. However I elected to use the available funds for a mig welder instead. I am going to work on the frame and battery for now, maybe mid next year I will look at a scanner again. hopefully an option to rent or borrow will pop up before then


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

428RC said:


> corvette is finally moved over to the north bay where it is accessible. I am still looking at scanning options. I really want to see if i can borrow an iPad pro 4th or 5th gen to scan it. Otherwise I may look at renting a handheld scanner once I get everything removed to make the areas I want scanned accessible.


check my instagram @Corvolt back a few months, i did a full photogrammetry scanner setup that worked shockingly well for about $800 in parts, i scanned the empty engine bay of a c3 corvette someone else was pulling the engine out of

for the camera i got a decent used one that'll also be used for my eventual youtube stuff


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

joekitch said:


> check my instagram @Corvolt back a few months, i did a full photogrammetry scanner setup that worked shockingly well for about $800 in parts, i scanned the empty engine bay of a c3 corvette someone else was pulling the engine out of
> 
> for the camera i got a decent used one that'll also be used for my eventual youtube stuff


thanx I will review it. I already bought a digital SLR so maybe I have what I need.


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## D&VsEVJeep (Dec 9, 2021)

@Corvolt back a few months, i did a full photogrammetry scanner setup that worked shockingly well for about $800 in parts, i scanned the empty engine bay of a c3 corvette someone else was pulling the engine out of
[/QUOTE]
Just followed... Any write-up somewhere on this? Or a specific post?


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

This post has a list of specific gear at the bottom


__
http://instagr.am/p/CZsQdwiP6UI/

This vid I used for some reference





And used this vid for how to preprocess images in Darktable. I used realitycapture instead of meshroom though


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## joekitch (Sep 13, 2013)

almost forgot, this video is why i got that fancy ringflash, helps enormously for mesh accuracy


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## 428RC (12 mo ago)

Hi,

sorry for the lack of updates. I have been upgrading/revising the power layout for my shop as well as a full blown bathroom remodel in the house. I have been watching Tim Allen's "Vik" build on youtube as well. A lot to see and some of the pitfalls of being an early adopter. its good he s flexible and adapting as needed and as the DIY stuff is improving. makes me hesitant to move to fast but impatient to move faster. hopefully the next guys will also implement a BMS for him, as it looked to me like they removed the Tesla BMS PCBA's without replacing them.


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