# 68 Vauxhall Viva just bought my motor.



## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

The car looks to be a great conversion candidate from the size and weight point of view. Sounds like you have all the mechanical skills and toys you would need. 

You may need to upgrade the suspension in the back to carry the battery weight.

The problem with azure dynamics stuff is that the original manufacturer is out of business, so support is whatever you can get from the community. Hopefully the motor came with a matched inverter, and hopefully that inverter is functional. The older solectria/azure stuff is relatively easy to work with if you are familiar with electronics, but it will take some fussing around to interface everything.

If you do have the AZD inverter then your battery voltage should be the nominal voltage of the inverter, or close to it. You will need that to get the motor torque out to a decently high RPM. Its going to be at least 156v, maybe 320v depending on what you have.

If you do NOT have an inverter already, your options are to try to find an AZD inverter that is compatible or can be programmed for your motor, or you might be better off getting a matched HPEVs motor and inverter. Those systems are designed for lower voltage (options up to 144v) and will have no problem direct driving such a light car.

I don't know of any kit / DIY AC inverters for EVs. There are DC motor controller designs for DIY though.

As for batteries, a surplus chevy Volt (Ampera?) pack will have about 12kwh usable which should be at least 80km, maybe 100 in a very light car driven at fairly low speeds. A 24kwh nissan leaf pack would have half again the usable capacity and easily give you the range you want ; probably more than the leaf it came out of, so long as the chassis was set up properly. Leaf packs are also very easy to work on and reconfigure for a DIY. Volt packs are used in DIY as well but they are harder to reconfigure arbitrarily.

You would probably keep near stock weight with the Volt pack, but you would gain a few hundred net pounds with the nissan pack.

If you can swap the diff to get something closer to 5:1 that might be a better direct drive ratio. The AC24 isn't all that torquey.

Good luck


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks, lots of good info.

So far, I just have the motor. He had the inverter/controller to go with it, but, because of the very reasons you state (out of business/reliability etc.), I didn't pick it up.....

Motors are motors, and, pretty reliable/abuse resistant for the most part. They can be rebuilt/rewound fairly reasonably. Not so much with the electronics.

Any thoughts on the best reasonably priced controller...... I was looking at this AC Controller kit. Anybody know if it's any good/ would work with the AC24Ls http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.c...ler-Kit-$1300-00/p/59121627/category=16287308

Also, any thoughts/suggestions on how reasonable my expectations are from my initial post.

Being a certified newby in the world of EVs, I can use all the help I can get. 

Thanks in advance for any and all replies. 

Al(BWA)


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

If the controller he had wasn't unreasonably priced, I would go back and get it. That's just me though. Unless it has water damage or physical damage, it will probably still work. 

Short of that, Curtis actually has a pretty extensive line of controllers. Try to get all the info you can on the motor, and you may be able to find a Curtis controller that will work with it from their website.

As far as transmission go, I strongly recommend you keep the original transmission for now. You already have it, so it won't cost you extra to keep it, except for maybe some clutch work. It would be much better to have those lower gears and not need them, then to need and not have them. Otherwise you would have to devise a tail-shaft adapter to the motor that would take the factory style drive-shaft, which would definitely cost more than keeping your current transmission.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

If the seller had the rest of the kit (inverter, etc) I'd go back and get it.

I did not realize Paul and Sabrina had an AC kit. I don't know anything about it, but I have generally heard good things about their DC designs.

I did NOT mention poor reliability in regards to the Azure stuff. It was for the most part pretty good overall. Their motors are basically repurposed industrial designs so yes, any decent motor shop should be able to maintain them. 

I have been running an early 2000's vintage AC55/UMOC445 system for about 30 months and 22k miles now. Zero problems with the inverter or motor. Knock on wood, but that isn't bad for any kind of electronics that old. The DC750 I got was DOA so I just built my own inside the original housing to maintain the look.

The power sections in solectria/azure inverters consist of largely off-the-shelf components that you can for the most part find replacements for. The bigger issue is the logic boards, if anything goes wrong there it is likely game over as many of the components are ASICs and other programmable logic chips. Even finding a replacement chip would not help unless you knew how to reprogram it correctly.

It is true that some of the solectria stuff I have seen had QC issues (the DC750 DC/DC converters I have seen all had WAY too much heat sink compound and poor power-conditioning component selection leading to poor reliability) and one of my two UMOC445 inverters had a loose connection in the power section that caused some damage to its power section. All of those issues are likely due to low volume hand-built construction.

If the seller's inverter is known working, I'd still (carefully) disassemble and inspect. there is at least one person in the US I believe who does work on these systems. I don't remember who it is but I am sure other people on this forum know the name.


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

madderscience said:


> ...The bigger issue is the logic boards, if anything goes wrong there it is likely game over as many of the components are ASICs and other programmable logic chips. Even finding a replacement chip would not help unless you knew how to reprogram it correctly...


Didn't Damien M. (Jack Bauer on here) build/repair a logic board for his DMOC645?


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## smdatta (Dec 28, 2013)

Nice to hear there will be soon one more Azure motor user. I recently (Sep 2015) finished my Toyota 4Runner Limited conversion using AC90 motor coupled to DMOC 645. So far, it is running perfectly. Agree with comments on this thread about the fear "what if DMOC 645 logic board fails". When Azure Dynamics went bankrupt, I bough a LOGIC board for DMOC 645 (I have not tested it yet), but makes me sleep batter knowing I have a logic board in hand to tinker.
My EV can be viewed at:
http://www.evalbum.com/5144


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

The motor vendor has a used DMOC 645 for 900 beanies. How does the 645 compare with the 445??

I'm seriously thinking about buying the kit from Paul and Sabrina, and, building it myself.



> As far as transmission go, I strongly recommend you keep the original transmission for now. You already have it, so it won't cost you extra to keep it, except for maybe some clutch work. It would be much better to have those lower gears and not need them, then to need and not have them. Otherwise you would have to devise a tail-shaft adapter to the motor that would take the factory style drive-shaft, which would definitely cost more than keeping your current transmission.


 Pretty sure I'm going to go transmission-less. I'll use a sliding pot type CV joint (got lots of those from my Mini parts stash). Simple job to machine the pot end to fit a standard shaft coupler, and, weld the two together.....

I may try and sort a 1.5-1 or, 2-1 reduction unit. Will be lighter than the gearbox, and, less drag than a regular gearbox...... With the 4-1 diff, would give 6 or 8-1, which, should put the AC motor into a better range re torque/rpm, and, give better starting ability.......


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## smdatta (Dec 28, 2013)

DMOC 645 (drives AC 90 motor) is a bigger version of DMOC 445 (AC 55) motor. You can find specs for both of these on internet (Contact me in email, if you cannot find it). In my opinion DMOC 645 for $900 is not a bad deal. I did put in a 5 speed manual transmission and have retained my clutch also. Re-gen on DMOC 645 is very strong. I can change gears easily, if I have re-gen turned off. I usually just leave my manual tranny in 4th gear and that seems to be the best and I have same acceleration as an ICE Toyota 4Runner. 1st gear can smoke the tires and tranny due to extreme torque. Mechanic told me that, I can go for a Toyota race car transmission which can handle such cars. 

I did test my DMOC 645 even before I plunked money on Lithium batteries by building a small 50amp bridge rectifier circuit fed by 240 volts AC and it did spin my motor. 
Good Luck,
Sham Datta


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Well, just hauled the motor across the border today.

Total cost was 250.00us for the motor. 100.00 shipping to Buffalo, = 350.00us, = 495.00 Cdn. Plus 56.00 Cdn to the Canadian Feds = 551.00 Canuk Bucks.

Car cost me 1500.00 Cdn, running and driving, so, total so far is 2,051.00 Canadian Dollars....... 

Which, in US currency is 1,480.15 US Dollars. Approximately.

So, now the fun really begins. Going to make the installation as simple and easy as possible.

The motor, is not much larger than the gearbox, and, will be mounted right where the gearbox is on the ice setup (should just fit in the tunnel). Going direct to the drive shaft, no clutch, flywheel, or gearbox. 

Will use the original drive shaft, with the original U joint at the back, but, at the front end, I will use a straight 1-1/8" keyed coupler, and, attach that (probably welded) to the inner pot joint (just happen to have lots of them) from a late Classic Mini drive shaft.

These are sliding pot joints, and, should have more than enough movement to take any movement in the drive shaft as the rear axle goes up and down.


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

OK, here's my new baby.









90 pounds, 46 HP, 130 FtLbs of torque at 144v/300 Amps.

Rated for 200 Amp continuous, 400 Amp for 60 seconds. After that, I guess it lets all the smoke out.....

1-1/8" keyed shaft.

Should be plenty to trundle my little blue baby-buggy around at 50 MPH, no???


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

And, here's how I'm going to hook my new baby up to my old baby.

1-1/8" keyed coupler (purchased from local Home Hardware for 7.00 Cdn.). And, an inner sliding Pot joint from a late 70s Classic Mini (got lots in the shed, so, basically free).

The plan is, to cut the spigot off the back of the pot joint, machine a matching 1/8" deep recess into it, to accurately align/centralise them both, then, weld them up into one solid unit.

Will have to use about 3-4 inches of a Mini inner driveshaft end, and, weld that into the nose of the driveshaft to hold the inner pot joint spider, and, that should be that job done. 

Seems like it will be a fairly simple installation mechanically, providing the motor will fit in the tunnel. It should, the motor looks pretty much the same size as the gearbox coming out.


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

The keyway adapter looks like it is split to clamp down on the shaft. Will your pot joint (looks like a CV joint to me) interfere with the clamping action if they are welded together?

Will you have a bearing between the motor and the front end of the driveshaft?


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Coupler is not split, so, no problem there.

Yes, it is basically a CV joint, but, the grooves for the ball bearings are straight. You can't get as much deflection on these as a regular CV joint, but, they do provide about 1 inch sliding movement in and out. Easily enough to take any drive shaft movement.

No, no type of support bearing. The motor bearing is similar in size to most transmission rear bearings, so, should easily support the drive shaft by itself.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Watching with interest BWA!


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Come visit, I'm not that far away.......


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

OK, I've got the car, got the motor, got a GPS Speedo (will post that later), have my motor to drive shaft coupler figured out.

Now, I need all the help I can get selecting a controller.

Car weight should be close to 1800 pounds all in ready to roll.

Direct drive to 4.125:1 diff

13" tall skinny tires

Nominal cruise speed required = 80Kph
Max Speed = 90Kph
Most trips anticipated = 60K return
Average stops = 8/round trip
Average speed/round trip = 65Kph. Most posted 80K, rest 60 and 50K zones

So, looking for 80-100K range, 120K would be real nice, at not much more than 80Kph. What do I need to get me in that ballpark???

Planning on 144v Leaf pack....

What are my options on controllers. So far, I have found a Curtis controller from HPEVS programmed for the AC24 motor. Just waiting for price.

The other option is the build it yourself one from Paul and Sabrina.

Anything else out there, anything else I will need, contactors, display monitor etc???

Thanks in advance for any help(BWA)


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

The Curtis unit should be very satisfactory, and handles a lot of other stuff really well. As to batteries, if you target 120 km at 200 Wh/mile and 70% depth of discharge, you should be good given your low speeds. You might end up at 250 Wh/mile if your foot gets heavy- the EV grin can do that to you! Not sure what V and Ah combinations are easy to achieve with Leaf packs, but you won't need all 24 kWh in a full pack otherwise. You forgot- do you intend to drive in winter? If so, be more conservative still as heaters for driver and batteries take their toll.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

The Curtis controller is generally supplied with a 48V contactor. You will need a disconnect preferably with cable so you can pull it open from the dash, at least one fuse and holder, and either a large 12V battery plus charger or a smaller one and a DC to DC- I'd do the former if I had to do it again. And some sort if Ah meter (the JLD is cheaper and recommended here) and a charger. BMS is strongly suggested but can be replaced with lots of care and worry.


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Great info, thanks. 

Probably no sub zero (C) driving, and, don't anticipate any night driving either. 

The car's current electrical foot print is pretty miniscule, a couple of dash lights, 4 running lights, head lamps, signal and brake lights, very small blower motor, and, windshield wipers.

Almost all of which never gets used. In 99% of my daily driving with this car, I only use the brake lights and signal lights. 

I could probably get away with a very small battery, just to make all the bells an whistles work legally.

Is there any real advantage to using the HPEVS Curtis programed for the AC24, or, just use any Curtis with 144v200Amp continuous rating????


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

HPEVS does more to the controller (programming wise) than just set it up for the correct motor, but I'm not sure what your options are with respect to other controllers.


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

OK, still waiting to hear from HPEVS on pricing.

Did a little rithmatic, to get a 144v pack, I need 19 Leaf modules. Looking at the new ones at 64ah.

How far will one pack take me, or, will I need two 144v 19 module packs in parallel to go anywhere and make it back.....

If two packs, should they be wired as separate 144v packs, and, then paralleled together. Or, should all 38 modules be wired series parallel in pairs to make one big 144v pack....


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

I am in the process of upgrading my Solectria E10 to run off a Leaf pack.

Nominal voltage was 144V, but I am going to use 2 parallel stacks of 20 Leaf modules in series. This will give me a nominal voltage of 150V. 

http://www.wolftronix.com/E10_LithiumUpgrade/index.html


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

You can estimate somewhere around 250Wh/mi, 144V*64Ah = ~9.2kWh, 9200/250 = 36 miles. That's likely optimistic. Usable capacity is probably 50-55Ah.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

60 mile range with paralleled 144V stacks.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Sounds about right. Coming at it the other way, the Leaf does ~60-80 miles on 48 modules. Can be less with battery degradation and cold operating temps with heater running. 

Rob


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

OK, sounds like I will be alright on the range I need with 38 leaf modules, with a pretty good margin.

The Curtis from HPEVS comes with Spyglass. I suspect that is some type of systems monitoring software. What does it do, and, do I need any hardware to access/display it?????

BMS, or, no BMS, or, any other battery monitoring options??


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

The Spyglass is a little round gauge the size of an old fuel gauge etc. It can be set up to display all sorts of information, and the default is for it to scroll between displaying motor RPM, battery current, battery voltage, motor temperature and controller temperature, each for a few seconds in sequence. There is a simple (separate) push button switch used as a "menu" button which allows you to scroll through these to get the one you want. More important than this, the menu button can be used with the Spyglass display to set parameters in the programming of the Curtis controller without having to go out and blow a bunch of money on a Curtis programmer. You can set throttle and brake type, motor drive and regen current limits, acceleration parameters etc. all by a somewhat cumbersome but workable "push and hold the button and wait five seconds" kind of interface.

The HPEVS implementation of the Curtis controller gives you a completely set up driving automation system. You have just about everything you could need for a car in there, already programmed for you. Want to implement a relay to turn on the brakelight when regenerative braking exceeds a certain value? No problem- five minute job, and the output is already set up to drive a 12 V relay, even though the relay is actually being driven from your main battery pack- just like the coil of your main contactor. Want to have an "econo" switch with different drive and braking current limits for inexperienced drivers? No problem. Need a clutch switch so the controller knows that you're about to switch gears? Again, no problem- it's pre-programmed. They've taken care of setting up all the I/O in the Curtis controller, which is multifunctional and be programmed to do all sorts of things, for typical applications needed on a car. That programming work is worth quite a bit in my mind, unless you're a programmer and love screwing around with that sort of thing, and you know somebody who will loan you a programmer unit.

In my opinion the very most useful gauge on my car's dash, aside from the speedo, is the ammeter. It's a dumb analog gauge- perfectly isolated, no power needed so no worries about cross-connections between the 12V system and the high voltage system which you might have with a digital gauge. It's again another round one, paralleled off the battery shunt resistor (which you also need as an input directly into the Curtis controller), and it reads both forward and reverse (regen) current. I got mine from Canadian Electric Vehicles- he has them trademarked with his logo etc. I have it nestled between the speedo and the tach, which I put in just to make the dash look something like it did originally.

An Ah meter is also critical- more important than a BMS. You can't live without one, whereas if you bottom balance and are extremely careful during charging, you might be able to live without a BMS. I have the TBS E-Expert Pro which was expensive but works well after a bit of learning. A JLD404 does the same more or less for about 1/5 the cost, but isn't as pretty on the dash. 

Again I strongly recommend a BMS, but don't have an immediate option for you for a Leaf pack. The miniBMS that I have was an open-source project developed with the participation of people here, is inexpensive and for me it works very well. It has shunt balancing which you cannot shut off, which I don't like, and it has fixed non-adjustable high voltage and low voltage cutout voltages (LVC and HVC) so you can't use it with other cell chemistries (Leaf cells aren't LiFePO4, they're something else which has different requirements for LVC and HVC). Others here offer different BMS options. 

You might be able to rig something up using a few very cheap CellLog8s, but you'd have to be careful as they have very limited upper voltages and they consume some power (different amounts from each cell) so they can over time cause some imbalance. I have a CellLog8 and use it for monitoring the rear pack in my car where the lowest capacity cells are, but I only plug it in to use it, then unplug it to download the data. Leaving it plugged in all the time like a BMS does have some risk associated with it. I forget who, but I saw one of the builds from a few years ago which used an array of CellLog8s as a BMS- you could find out all the details from the builder. 

The CellLog8 is very cheap and very flimsy, intended for use in R/C aircraft- but you can set up your own HVC and LVC values and use them to operate relays similar to what is done with the miniBMS. At the end of the day what you really need is for any HVC on any cell to shut off your charger, and a LVC alarm on any cell to give you a loud alarm in your driving compartment. If the alarm just happens for an instant on heavy acceleration, you can decide what to do- if the alarm happens more often, you're pulling over and getting out the voltmeter to find out which cell to bypass so you can limp home. 

You're close enough by too- if you want to drop by and visit, PM me and you can come over and see a few of these things first hand- the pictures don't do it justice. It's in the garage until absolutely all the salt is off the road of course!


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

Moltenmetal said:


> Again I strongly recommend a BMS, but don't have an immediate option for you for a Leaf pack.


If you buy the whole Leaf Pack, it comes with an OEM BMS for "FREE" 

I am working on reverse engineering the Leaf BMS for use in my truck:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...nginnering-nissan-leaf-bms-serial-169225.html

Should have a bit more progress after this weekend. 

Thanks, 
Wolf


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Thanks MM, really useful bunch of info.

Soon as the weather gets a bit nicer, I'll arrange to visit.

Good info on the Leaf pack WT, I'll check your link out......

I'm up in Canada, Leaf packs are just not available up here, or, wrecked Leafs for that matter. Searching and buying across border is very difficult....


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

YIKES, just got a reply from HPEVS. AC24 controller is 3000.00US........

By the time I get it here, it will be not far short of 5,000.00 in my money. That's more than twice what I have wrapped up in the running driving doner car and electric motor..........

Oh Paul, Sabrina, where are you guys??????????

Don't need the controller for a couple months yet, so, the search is on (fruitless though it may be) for a cheaper option.....


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Is the Leaf BMS usable on re configured Leaf packs in other installations????


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Would a Leaf inverter work for this???


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Unfortunately a Leaf inverter won't do it. The inverter has to be tuned for the specific motor, and I don't know of anyone currently trying to reverse engineer the controller code in the Leaf inverter. I'm not sure anyone has successfully demonstrated controlling a Leaf inverter externally either.

I believe there are some "universal" inverter designs out there that include the ability to "auto-tune" for a new motor, but don't know if any are available ready built or just as instructions for DIY with code you can download.

The best bet for AC motors is usually to buy the motor and inverter as a pair, already configured to work well together and with a documented control system.

I believe the Leaf BMS can be used if you keep the original battery configuration, but otherwise would be tricky. If going with less cells in series, you might be able to work up some kind of batter simulator to connect to the open taps and keep it happy. Such as a microcontroller that reads the cell voltages from the CAN bus and the outputs the average cell voltage on a series of DAC outputs? I think there's also someone working on an internal solution for this by trying to reverse engineer the communications link between the controllers and the chips that sample the battery voltages. Even with the stock number of cells, using the Leaf BMS would require some sort of CAN controller to read the SOC and other relevant data.


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Well, that's a total bummer, Leaf inverters can be had for 3 to 400.00 Cdn.

The appropriate Curtis one is 4,000.00 Cdn, PLUS shipping and 13% tax.....

Good info on the Leaf BMS hopefully someone will have that sorted before I get that far.....

Weather is getting nice enough up here, I can soon start pulling the ICE and, assorted unwanted peripherals.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

I am working on reverse engineering the Leaf BMS for use with other pack configurations:
http://www.wolftronix.com/E10_LithiumUpgrade/index.html


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Excellent, will keep my eye on that.

In the mean time, I just ordered this.

http://johanneshuebner.com/quickcms/index.html?en_inverter-kit,10.html

While, not a complete inverter, it is the Brains (which, is by far and away the hard part), and, seems like it is compatible with most AC EV style motors.

Price was a very reasonable 282.00 USD.

It is a build it yourself kit with all the required circuit boards and, the parts to populate them, including the drivers for the IGBT Power Stage, but, none of the parts for the Power Stage itself......

So, as soon as it arrives, I'll take pics, and, post notes about assembly frustrations (I'm sure there's bound to be a few). Etc.

So, now, what do I need to build up a power stage?????

IGBTs for a start, any recommendations on type/ratings, source etc.

Same for some honking big Caps......


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Fantastic, and best of luck with the kit- I will be of zero help to you there...I can't build anything electronic that I can't troubleshoot- I know that from past experience.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

If you have access to cheap Leaf inverters, I wonder if there is any reason you couldn't use the power stage from one of those? The specs look pretty compatible, and while maybe a bit oversized for the AC24 it would likely be more reliable and similar in cost compared to DIY. Plus you'd have a case with liquid cooling plate all ready to go. You'd just have to figure out how to isolate the power stage from the OEM controller, and ideally remove it and replace with your new board.

AC24: Max voltage 400V, Max current 250A, Max power ~50kW
http://www.cems.uvm.edu/~aero/AC24_2007.pdf

Leaf Inverter: Estimated 1000V/600A IGBTs, 600V Caps, Nominal ~390V / 200A / 80kW 
http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape006_burress_2013_o.pdf

I would think that might work well at something like the 288V 180A case from the motor specs? My understanding is generally oversizing the power stage is much safer than undersizing or cutting it too close to the max device specs. A factor of 2 safety margin on max Voltage of the components is probably a good idea. 

I guess you'd just need to be sure the pre-drivers are up to the task, perhaps the supplier of your board might give you an opinion on the idea?

Rob


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Now, that's a great thought. Although, wrecked Leafs/parts are pretty scarce up here in Canada, the inverters are pretty cheap in the States, even with exchange and shipping, I think it would still be much cheaper than buying parts separately.

Thanks for that thought.....


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

I think miscrms has the right suggestion for sure.


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Yes, and, I think that may resolve the BMS issue too. I hope......

Using the Curtis controller, I was going to be limited to144/150V Battery pack. Meaning, I could only use part of a Leaf pack. Leaf BMS won't work if all battery modules are not hooked up.

Using Johannes controller with a Leaf High Voltage, or, Homebrew High Voltage side, I can run the whole Leaf pack maybe????

If you split a Leaf pack in half, and run two 24 Module packs in parallel, using all 48 modules, will the Leaf BMS then work?????

And, what would that do to my range compared to 2 20 module packs paralleled??

I'm thinking, 1800 pound car versus 3400 pounds. At 80 Kph or less, should go a pretty good distance I'm thinking......


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

BWA said:


> Yes, and, I think that may resolve the BMS issue too. I hope......
> 
> Using the Curtis controller, I was going to be limited to144/150V Battery pack. Meaning, I could only use part of a Leaf pack. Leaf BMS won't work if all battery modules are not hooked up.
> 
> ...


Good question on BMS, it may work. I'd do some googling on that, I think I remember seeing other people try it.

Range should be basically the same for 48x1 modules or 2x24, as the total energy stored (kWh) should be the same. Should scale linearly from 2x20 to 2x24. I'm assuming reduction in weight will help, but CdA compared to Leaf will probably dominate if you can estimate that. Also the net efficiency of the inverter and motor will be a factor. The Stock system is very good, test by ORNL as 96% peak, and 90%+ over a wide operating range for the two combined! If your motor / inverter combo is say 10% less efficiency on average, that would translate to 10% less range.

I'm hoping to be about 1/2 the weight and 1/2 the CdA compared to the original Leaf, with full stock efficiency, so hoping for great things on range  

Bear in mind though that used Leaf packs will already have some capacity degradation relative to new, and will continue to degrade in use. Being in Phoenix, that will probably be more of a factor for me given their track record in hot climates. That's part of the reason I'm mounting the battery fully inside the cabin, and considering ducting AC right back into the battery area. 10-15% loss seems to be common on 2011/2012 packs. Ones from hot climates can already by 30%+ down. Its good to know where your batteries are coming from!

Rob


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

YAY YAY, It's here, it's here, YAY YAY (In my best Kermit the Frog voice)

My Johannes Hübner AC Controller Brain just arrived.

Very fast service. Package was much smaller than I expected, but, has some substantial weight to it, must be a bunch of stuff in the little box.

Here's the box, let's open it......





As I suspected, LOTS of parts





Even more when you zoom in close.











Lets take a few out of the box.












HHHHMMMMM, another layer.











OK, lets just dump the lot.












Yikes, that is an awful lot of parts. 5 Printed Circuit Boards, dozens of resistors, capacitors, chips, clips, connectors, and, a bunch of stuff I don't even know what it is.....

Initially, it's pretty overwhelming looking, but, after a few hours of looking through it all, examining the boards, and, pouring through the website, it is starting to look a little less intimidating, and, do-able, even for a worn out ex Typewriter mechanic that knows more about Steam Engines than Search Engines. 

Anyway, I have to acquire a few bits n pieces before I start. New soldering equipment, as, I think my current (Pun intended) soldering iron may be a bit large. But, it's only 250 Watts, so, who knows..... 











Need to find a cheap scope, looks like it will be a necessary item during the build phase. 

Plus, get a work area together..... 

So, in about 2-3 weeks, I plan on starting a very detailed build thread showing step by step how to assemble my new brain

Wish me luck, I think I'm gonna need it......


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm bbbaaaaaaaack. Finally got all my new soldering stuff sorted, just need to clear some space to get started assembling Johannes nifty controller Brain thingamy.....

Will do a step by step thread in the Controller section....

Also acquired (Free) (Ya gotta love Free stuff) some heat sinks, and, maybe some Power Caps. They are out of a big industrial AC Motor controller.

Here's some pics.
I'll measure them up tomorrow....





































Anybody know if these Caps will work????









Oh, also got my coupler done, will also take pics of that tomorrow....


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Here's the coupler, pretty simple, and, cheap...

7.50 for a keyed 1-1/8 hardware store shaft coupler, and, a free from my pile of Mini junk (old style Mini) Diff end sliding Pot Joint, lined up accurately, and, welded together....

Here's the evidence....


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Wow- building that controller is going to be a real adventure! Keep us posted, we'll try to help.

Key is to get a really good soldering iron- a temperature controlled Weller is what I'd recommend for the fine stuff- and to always have a sponge handy to keep it clean. You could easily be in trouble with just one cold solder joint somewhere, and diagnosing a circuit you didn't design yourself is tough, even with a clever and helpful designer available for assistance over the Internet.


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

That's what the delay has been, waiting for the temp controlled soldering iron, and, fine dia solder and, pure rosin paste flux.

The soldering part is a bit of a slam dunk for me, been soldering all my life since I was about 6 years old. Built my first transistor radio kit when I was around 10......

Not electrical (but, it is an electric car) I soldered this all up with a torch. It's a 1/24 scale Fiat Slot Car drag car



















I just dragged up a small desk from down stairs and stuck it in front of the living room window. Might as well have a nice view of the flora and fauna as I toil away, much better than looking at bare concrete walls.....


And, that little tractor is definitely on the EV Hit list......



















Also, this is a Secure Facility, the Guard Geese are on constant duty keeping undesirables away, if you don't get past the Geese, you don't get in......


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Well, bits are slowly coming together, scrounged some big honkin heat sinks from a commercial AC motor controller, and, 4 Caps that may do for the Controller High Side.

Also just purchased some IGBT's (600v/400amp) also for the High side..

Working on Johannes AC Motor Controller, will do a separate post/instructable on it when I'm done.... 

I'll add some pics and links later tonight....

Planning to run the AC24Ls at 300/400v, 200amps.

Here's all my specs so far. Finally ascertained my gear ratio, 8-33. Had the diff cover off, and, that is etched right into the face of the pinion.

Tire diameter is 22", but, actual driving radius is 10.5" car sitting on concrete floor, measured floor to wheel center.

Max speed needed is only 50mph, with about 5mph head room. All my driving is on 2 lane country roads, no major highways. Mostly flat, long runs with few stop signs.

What kind of RPM will I be doing at 50mph, and, what would be a better/more optimum ratio to get the motor into it's best rpm range, I'm thinkin a bit over 4:1 is not going to be enough, maybe somewhere closer to 6 or 8 to one will be best. Still trying to decide whether to go direct drive (dead simple coupler), keep the tranny (stripped of most gears, leaving only 2nd and top), or, build a toothed belt reduction box (somewhere between 1.5 and 2:1 I'm guessing)

Option no. 1 is easiest/cheapest, option 2 is hardest, most precision needed, option 3 is about middle on all counts.......

Thanks for any help, this board has been great so far.....


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Here's the link to the IGBT's I got.

PRX IGBT Module CM400DU-12F

130.00US for three of them shipped. Seems pretty good deal to me

Although, I might have gone a bit light on the voltage, they are 600v/400amp, I think I really should have gotten some 1200v ones (found some about 3 minutes after I pulled the trigger on these. Oh well!!!)

Here's my heat sinks from that Industrial AC motor controller.

The first is about 12" x 8". It had the IGBT's bolted to it. With any luck, mine will bolt right on.....



















Here's the smaller one, about 8" x 8" , should be useful for something....



















And, here's the Caps. How do they looks spec wise 1400uf, 500vdc????? There are 4 of them, will that be enough????


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