# 150v FOC controllers wanted



## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

Does anyone know of reasonably priced 150v FOC controllers that can deliver 20kw? The motor is BLDC. I intend to run at 131v or 32S LION. I want variable regen and need around 200 battery amps.


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

There's some VESC based stuff on the horizon, but not anything that I have found that exists right now.
I've found a few sinusoidal controllers, but that's not FOC.
I found the Kelly 8080i 144v variant, but it says sinusoidal, not FOC. Anyone know if it's actually FOC?

Any ideas on a reasonably priced FOC controller capable of 150v max?


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> There's some VESC based stuff on the horizon, but not anything that I have found that exists right now.
> I've found a few sinusoidal controllers, but that's not FOC.


I assume that you meant 
"I've found a few sinusoidal controllers, but that's not *necessarily* FOC"



rishimaze said:


> I found the Kelly 8080i 144v variant, but it says sinusoidal, not FOC. Anyone know if it's actually FOC?


I know nothing about this controller other than what I can read from their product web page, but that says:


Kelly Controls said:


> It uses high power MOSFETs, SVPWM and FOC...


That's pretty clear: it implements field-oriented control.


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

Duplicate post...


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

brian_ said:


> I assume that you meant
> "I've found a few sinusoidal controllers, but that's not *necessarily* FOC"
> 
> 
> ...


I specifically want the benefits of FOC. In 150v, FOC controllers are pretty rare.

I asked Fany at Kelly about the 8080i and she said it was not FOC. I asked if Kelly had anything FOC and she confirmed they do not. This seems odd, but she told me the same thing a year ago too!

I didn't see this before. Why would Fany tell me they don't support FOC? Thats nuts!
Right from the 8080i page in tiny print: "It uses high power MOSFETs, SVPWM and FOC ..."

Discussing the 8080i with a freind that knows way more than me, he said he doesn't believe it for a second that the 8080i is FOC capable. That fits with what Fany said.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> I asked Fany at Kelly about the 8080i and she said it was not FOC. I asked if Kelly had anything FOC and she confirmed they do not. This seems odd, but she told me the same thing a year ago too!
> 
> I didn't see this before. Why would Fany tell me they don't support FOC? Thats nuts!
> Right from the 8080i page in tiny print: "It uses high power MOSFETs, SVPWM and FOC ..."


Yes, that's what I was saying...

Someone at Kelly Controls needs to get their act together. Either the controller implements FOC (as the web page claims), or not. I suspect that Fany is out of date and/or doesn't understand the product.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

rishimaze said:


> I specifically want FOC. So when I say, I've found a few options, I mean specifically FOC. Sunusoidal control is less than FOC. VESC based controllers, Nucular, ASI and others are FOC based controllers.


Sinusoidal is a waveform, not a control methodology; the terms sinusoidal and FOC are not contradictory or incompatible.


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

brian_ said:


> Sinusoidal is a waveform, not a control methodology; the terms sinusoidal and FOC are not contradictory or incompatible.


This is well known, but sinusoidal also embodies a specific form of motor control that isn't trapezoidal or the full monty that is FOC. I have not seen an FOC controller that didn't implement sinusoidal control. FOC takes things a lot further in how a motor is controlled beyond feeding the phases a sinusoid.






Field Oriented Control vs. Sinusoidal Commutation


Like sinusoidal commutation, field oriented control produces consistent torque, but it yields better motor efficiency, especially at high speeds.




www.motioncontroltips.com





I'm pretty sure...aka highly skeptical that the 8080i is really FOC. IF it was, why don't they blaze that across the top of the page? Instead it's in tiny print, buried in a paragraph. It's almost like "We want to fool you if you buy into this one skimpy line of text that includes FOC. However, when you discover that our controller isn't FOC, we can fall back on the fact that we made a really small deal about it."

When I asked Fany if the 8080i was FOC or not, she got pissy with me and then emphatically stated that it was NOT FOC. Soooo...DELETE that "FOC" from the description already!!!


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## rishimaze (May 23, 2021)

IF anyone cares...
This is a spin-off from Rion scooters. The are making VESC based controllers in a few variations. They all use TO-247 mosfets and unlike the easily destroyable stuff coming from Trampa and FlipSky, include opto-isolation, TVS and other protection devices.

www.tronicsystems.com was purchased in September 2021 and has barely gotten set up. Content shows up and goes away again. The e-commerce functionality is not yet working. Contact them and you might get an email from a Rion or Tronic address. I have emails with Tronic addresses and then the signature line is someone from Rion. It all the same folks. They have gotten a lot of interest in the VESC controllers they use in the Rion scooters and decided to sell them separately.

The Tronic 250 is more or less a direct competitor with the 100/250 from Trampa, just much better made and I beleive uses the IRFP4468 mosfet. I'm not sure of the mosfet count, but either 6 or 12. What they said about this controller, "The 250’s has nothing to do with the trampa design! It’s a completely different product with higher grade components and higher outputs at 21s. Other vesc are blowing up easily." I had just asked if this was a copy of the 100/250 from Trampa.









TRONIC 250 ESC | My Site


250 Phase amps continuous300 Phase amps absolute100 Battery amps8S - 21S Battery (24V to 88.2V)Built in IMU chip for balancing applicationsIntegrated Bluetooth transceiverCAN bus communicationsCapable of FOC or BLDC (trapezoidal) operationSoft and Hard Thermal LimitingFully programmable via the...




www.tronicsystems.com





The Tronic 400 currently shows out of stock, but really they are waiting for the first batch of them to get into their hands. I can see using 2 of these on my Zap scooter at 82v to replace the forever wonky Nuculars on it. It did list some specs, but that got removed until they have stock on hand. They are rated for 28S and 400 phase amps. When I mentioned that Nucular is $10 more, rated for 500 amps and has an LCD, they were pretty defensive and emphatic that this controller would destroy a Nuc 24 fet. It is higher voltage at 28S instead of 22S. We will see! I'll get 2 of them just as soon they make them available. This is also a TO-247 12 fet controller and uses the IRFP4321 mosfet.









TRONIC 400 ESC | My Site


COMING SOON




www.tronicsystems.com





They listed a Tronic 750 for a while until I started asking about it. Then it got taken off their web site since it was not ready for sale for "another 45 days". It's made with IRFP4321 150v mosfets, 160v caps and most everything else is 160v components. They would not talk about this controller very much other than to say 750 phase amps and 30S. I'm guessing it is 24 fet since it's essentially double the amperage of the Tronic 400. They listed it for $800...might need 2 of them for the XM3000 project. I tried to push them on further information and they were careful to not give out details. It's all 150v+ components so 32S shouldn't be a problem.

These came down too and had no specs, just blank pages. The listed a modular BMS and a DC-DC. I asked about them and they would not say anything.


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