# Electric Vehicle Battery Chargers



## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Nice table.

Can I suggest another row for the table? Isolated verses non-isolated.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Brilliant table I say, just what I needed!! Many thanks, Adam


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

deltaQ info is off, QuiQ doesn't have canbus, isn't 3000W and isn't 200+ volts.

The new model is though, but the table is inaccurate.


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

Also where is the Zivan NG1? They are still available both new and refurbished.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Probably because it's a fairly biased view of chargers for 144V/1000W and above.


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

Doh. I'm getting 1200 watts out of my 72 volt NG1 @ 85 volt output. These things seem to be underrated by a good amount.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

how are you getting that number? Is the battery pack voltage actually at 85V while the charger is putting out 14A?

From the manual, the charger is 864W max
http://www.zivanusa.com/pdf/NG1.pdf


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

Yup. Pack measures 85 volts and current is 14A (well, actually 13.9A). It's 14A through the entire CC phase.

If you go into the charger, there is a pot to adjust current. I just adjusted it until current maxed out. The charger is thermally protected so it's not going to burn itself up so it should be safe for the charger. One thing not to do is turn that pot past the point where current stops increasing as it seems to throw off the voltage regulation on the CV phase. Just take it to the point of max current and things are fine. Given the NG1 power factor of .68 that means it will just max out a 15 Amp 120 VAC circuit (probably why current adjustment is capped at 14A by the charger).


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

So you're charger is set to charge the batteries up to 85V?

And you're saying you're both in CC and CV mode at the same time? (you're at 85V and charging at a constant 14A)?

Doesn't make any sense.


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

frodus said:


> So you're charger is set to charge the batteries up to 85V?
> 
> And you're saying you're both in CC and CV mode at the same time? (you're at 85V and charging at a constant 14A)?
> 
> Doesn't make any sense.


No I'm not. Sorry for any confusion. 14 Amps flow from the beginning of charge, all the way through Phase One (Constant Current) until the pack reaches 85.000V where Phase Two (Constant Voltage) kicks in and current slowly declines to maintain pack votage at 85 Volts. Yes, 85.000V is my voltage set point for CV Stage Two.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Still doesn't make sense unless the NG1 was modified. It's not a 1200W charger, and it's DANGEROUS that it charges at a higher current than is listed on it's own datasheet, especially if the batteries you use can only charge at 10A, and you're charging them at 14A. 

An electronic device should not operate outside of it's specified range as is shown on it's datasheet. That's just My Humble Opinion.




but anyway, the NG1 should be on that list.


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

What danger? The input and output wiring are both fused and the power handling components are thermally protected. The worst possible outcome would be a blown input/output fuse or lower reliability from higher operating temperature. But I measure only about a 1.5degC rise in component temp going from 10A to 14 A output, and way below the 55degC that the thermal protection would kick in. Danger to the cells? At 14 Amps, I'm charging the cells at at 0.087C or C/11.5. I'm all for being prudent, but at some point it becomes paranoia.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I said exactly what I meant. 



> it's DANGEROUS that it charges at a higher current than is listed on it's own datasheet


I'm saying that it doesn't even comply with it's own spec sheet. 1200W is 38% above it's rating of 864W, that's a huge percentage to be "off". If their current NG1 charges at 1200W, then the datasheet should reflect that, that's what I'm saying is dangerous. Some of us actually design things according to what is on those datasheets.

Not everyone is using your 160Ah cells with this charger. This charger is used for more than just your application. What works for you, doesn't always fork for others. If someone bought this for his 72V bicycle with 10Ah of Ping cells that should charge at 1C MAX, and it's charging them at 1.5C, is that ok? No, it charges at a current that can effect the life of this person's cell, and in some cases, destroy them.



Would it be ok for the temperature probe on one of our chargers reported a 38% less temperature?

Would it be ok if a charger charged to a voltage that was 38% higher than it was set for?

Would it be ok for a controller who's current transducer registered at 38% higher than the actual current going through it?


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

I still have a problem understanding exactly what you you object to. Is it the fact that I as an end-user adjusted the charger higher than spec, or simply that it's over-engineered and capable of going over spec?

Zivan sent the charger to me producing exactly 10 amps at the voltage setpoint I asked for. They met their spec sheet. I adjusted it as the end-user.

This is not at all uncommon in electronics. Every electonic device has headroom. The more conservatively it was designed to more headroom is available. Many times the user is not able to tap into the headroom easily. In the case of the Zivan chargers it a simple twist of a potentiometer.

Again, it arrives from Zivan meeting their spec exactly - [email protected], within my tolerance to measure. It's also over-engineered capable of much more if the user chooses to tweak the adjustments available. Voltage can be adjusted in a wide band, and current during the CC phase can be adjusted from about 8 Amps (IIRC) up to about 14 Amps.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

bgeery said:


> I still have a problem understanding exactly what you you object to. Is it the fact that I as an end-user adjusted the charger higher than spec, or simply that it's over-engineered and capable of going over spec?


You edited that response while I was responding, so I hadn't seen that you modified it, then the replies went into page 2.

Disreguard my comments.

If this charger had in fact been putting out 14A stock, my comments apply, but your original comments made this unclear.

Thank you for clarifying and going back to edit the response so it was explained that you modified it.


----------



## bgeery (Oct 17, 2011)

I only corrected a spelling mistake IIRC. I think you just missed it while reading. Regardless, we seem to be on the same page now. 

Just to summarize one final time. Zivan meets spec at 10A when shipped, but the end-user can use an internal potentiometer to raise it to about 14A or lower to it about 8A during the Constant Current phase.


----------



## Rej (Aug 25, 2013)

My choice went on having multiple 12V "intelligent" battery chargers (for 6V acid batteries bank). Is it possible to add information on that choice? My choice was because price is less and if a charger is defective, I can find another one anytime in a store and keep my car going. But I am searching information on how to plug the chargers, plugs used, fuses circuit etc. This choice is also a very good here because government requirements. If you did such a choice and want to share experience, please comment.


----------

