# [EVDL] J1772 Standard



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for that Rush, good info!



> Rush <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been doing a little research on the J1772 Standard since Tucson is
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It really doesn't matter what kind of plug is used at the vehicle end.
Your cord will fit that. The real concern is what are the requirements
for the other end.

I guess I don't really care what they come up with for a standard. The
likelihood that any will be installed around here in the next 10 years
is about zero.

If the capability to plug into a standard 15 amp duplex outlet is not
retained, I sure wouldn=92t buy the car. The real need for electric cars
is ubiquitous charging stations. You are going to be hard pressed to
convince your barber or food store or hardware store owner to install
a $1000 charging station. It isn=92t that hard to get him to put in a
standard outlet that he can also make use of.



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush wrote:
> 
> > I've been doing a little research on the J1772 Standard
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in violation of
> > the electrical code using such a cord to connect an EV to an outlet bigger
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> 
> > > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in
> > > violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Stockton" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard




> > Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> >
> >> > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in
> >> > violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That means that Delta Q's CAN be "pluggerd" into 240 here in the 
colonies!?They cover their ass by not mentioning it?Wes skirred to try it!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Stockton" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard




> > Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> >
> >> > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in
> >> > violation of the electrical code using such a cord to connect
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmmmm. Good reading.... I'll post the actual text for those who don't have
an NEC codebook sitting on their desk. But, it does appear to indeed
prohibit plugging an EV into 240 volts (unless certain qualifications are
met... which using an RV/range/dryer outlet does not meet). Annoying...
(just like alot of the code, which is applied very differently to different
things that are very similar...)

Z



> Bob Rice <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > That means that Delta Q's CAN be "pluggerd" into 240 here in the
> > colonies!?They cover their ass by not mentioning it?Wes skirred to try it!
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In Article 625 of the NEC, they are talking about exceptions for EV 
equipment rated at 125 volt, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes.

The exceptions are that you can use a portable 15 to 20 amp 120 vac charger 
that does not have to be permanently connected and fasten in place.

You do not have to have a interlock that de-energizes the electric connector 
for receptacle rated at 125 volt, single phase, 15 and 20 amperes.

You do not have to have the vehicle connector and cable de-energize the 
electric vehicle connector and its cable for a 125 vac, single phase, 15 and 
20 amperes.

All other electric vehicle supply equipment shall be permanently connected 
and fastened in place, which means all other voltages, amperes and phases 
other than the standard receptacle outlets rated at 125 volts, single phase, 
15 and 20 amperes.

This means equipment other than 125 volts, single phase, 15 and 20 amps is 
either fasten in place on board the EV or off board. Other wise if you 
forgot to unplug the other type of voltage and ampere charge, you could drag 
it away with the expose AC energized circuits left expose.

This type of cord connections for other than 125 volt single phase, 15 and 
20 amps requires a 6 conductor cord that has two control wires going to a 6 
pin receptacle. The 2 control pins in the receptacle either jumper or have 
a onboard control switch. This either turns on a motorize circuit breaker 
or a AC magnetic contactor back the switch board room.

When I away from my 50 amp charging station I only use the 120 vac 20 amp 
charging so I meet the NEC requirements.

In some articles the exception may be listed first and the shall be provided 
listed last and some articles are the other way around will the shall be is 
listed first with the exceptions listed last.

I had to explain a article to a EE one time, that he specified SHALL on 
everything while there are exceptions listed in other sections of the NEC 
that refer to other sections that refer to other sections that refer to 
other sections and etc. I use to teach the NEC.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Roger Stockton 


> > <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> > > .......and in North America at least, you'll probably be in violation of
> > > the electrical code using such a cord to connect an EV to an outlet
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > NEC... does indeed prohibit plugging an EV into 240 volts (unless
> > certain qualifications are met... which using an RV/range/dryer
> > outlet does not meet).
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bob Rice wrote:
> 
> > Ah! THERE it is! Wasn't THAT the one rushed in to retard
> > EV development?Make chargers essentually USELESS to the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bob Rice wrote:
> 
> > That means that Delta Q's CAN be "pluggerd" into 240 here
> > in the colonies!?They cover their ass by not mentioning
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > J1772 is an SAE standard, and is/will be publicly available. It
> > contains all the details required to make a charger compliant with
> > J1772, or to make an adapter to make a J1772 compliant public
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > > NEC... does indeed prohibit plugging an EV into 240 volts (unless
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > I believe the SAE standards are private; available to members
> > only, and for a fee.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee wrote -
> I believe the SAE standards are private; available to members only, and
> for a fee.

That's not true Lee, the SAE Standards are purchasable, it is just that this 
one is not yet written. The web site for the committee is 
http://www.sae.org/servlets/works/committeeHome.do?comtID=TEVHYB3, clik on 
the Documents tab and you'll see that there are no documents. If you go to 
the SAE store http://www.sae.org/servlets/index and type in J1772, you'll 
get a page that shows the standard written in 2000. Don't worry when it does 
get written they will sell it. Just like everybody else they want to make 
money on their product.

In fact I just bought the 2000 standard for $15, true I had to register with 
them - But now TEVA2 is registered with the SAE, pretty neat when you think 
about it. It means that TEVA2 has a larger voice than it had before.

Maybe it might be a good idea if you, as the manufacturer of the Sunrise, 
would register with them. The J1772 plug might be a good component to have 
as a integral part of the Sunrise.

Rush
Tucson AZ 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Zeke wrote

>why manufacture something
> that no one is going to buy. Right now, why would anyone bother to
> manufacture an EV listed cable/plug/etc... because there is no market (the
> hobbiest market isn't large enough to bother with, for most 
> manufacturers).
> They see the OEM car manufacturers as the only possible market for that, 
> so
> they cater to them. And don't even want to deal with us.

That's not entirely true Zeke, I've spoken with Ecotality (who will be 
installing the charger stations here in Tucson) and they have 'assured' me 
that they will make some receptacles available for us, price still to be 
determined.

http://www.clippercreek.net/, manufacturer of the orig Avcon stations, has 
also said that they will make them available to us.

The Electric Automobile Association is also working on buying a quantity to 
make available to its members.

So they are willing to deal with us, and the more we order, the cheaper they 
will be. And if you have one you can charge at any of the charging stations 
instead of just driving by and worrying about where you can find a 120 or 
240 plug. Makes sense to me...

Rush
Tucson AZ 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger wrote -

> We also need to appreciate that very, very few public charging stations 
> have been, or will be, installed for the convenience of the conversion 
> crowd: public charging stations are installed to encourage wider adoption 
> and use of OEM EVs, not conversion EVs.

Correct Roger, BUT we can still use them, there is no law saying that we 
cannot use them. They are PUBLIC charging stations. In fact the company that 
has the contract with the Tucson Government is very aware that we, the 
conversion crowd wants to use the stations. In fact it makes a lot of sense 
for them to 'let' us be able to use the chargers. More electrictiy will be 
sold, because this time it will not be free; the merchants where the 
chargers are installed will have 'more' customers. They WANT us to charge 
there because it shows that LOTS of cars are being charged and that the 
concept is a success and they will sell more chargers...

> J1772 is an SAE standard, and is/will be publicly available. It contains 
> all the details required to make a charger compliant with J1772, or to 
> make an adapter to make a J1772 compliant public charging station usable 
> as a standard AC outlet for charging conversion EVs.

Correct again Roger, the SAE Standards are purchasable, it is just that this 
one is not yet written. The web site for the committee is 
http://www.sae.org/servlets/works/committeeHome.do?comtID=TEVHYB3, clik on 
the Documents tab and you'll see that there are no documents. If you go to 
the SAE store http://www.sae.org/servlets/index and type in J1772l, you'll 
get a page that shows the standard written in 2000. Don't worry when it does 
get written they will sell it. Just like everybody else they want to make 
money on their product.

> When more public charging stations pop up, hobbiests will be there, ready 
> to plug in and charge even if OEM EVs are still few and far between ;^>

That is exactly why I am starting the discussion now - so that when the 
'Ecotality Nissan J1772 Standard Charging Stations' are put up in Tucson in 
about a year, we will at least have a prototype that we can use and refine 
so that when the chargers are installed in other cities everybody will have 
the adapter.

Rush
Tucson AZ 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The July 16, 2008 draft seems to be at:
www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/hevtest/071608evchargingreq.pdf


e are no documents. If you go to
> the SAE store http://www.sae.org/servlets/index and type in J1772l, you'll
> get a page that shows the standard written in 2000. Don't worry when it does
> get written they will sell it. Just like everybody else they want to make
> money on their product.
>

-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush wrote:
> 
> > Correct Roger, BUT we can still use them, there is no law
> > saying that we cannot use them. They are PUBLIC charging
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton wrote:
> >
> > We also need to appreciate that very, very few public charging
> > stations have been, or will be, installed for the convenience of the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> pratt2 wrote:
> > We have 2 projects EV's and want to get our charging stations outside
> > for others to use.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

L14-30 was my first choice. I have them in my basement and garage.

we currently use L21-20's since i had therm around and thats almost 6kw
with a homebrew charger that uses all 3 phases. we decommissioned a ups
recently and had extra parts.

my complaints:
they arent made for ev use
they dont "break away"
they have no pilot circuit to control the contactor and timer

I like the evnut adapter cables. we though we would have some for rent
in the guard booth. just to stop you from keeping them.
'




> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > pratt2 wrote:
> > > We have 2 projects EV's and want to get our charging stations outside
> > > for others to use.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> pratt2 wrote:
> > my complaints:
> > they arent made for ev use
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why not NEMA 14-50?
In case the inspectors want to give you a
hard time and ask if it is for EV, then you
can say: no, not EV, RV!
If I am not mistaken, these connectors are
in thousands of RV campgrounds so it is
kind of a standard for outdoor 240V access
as long as shielded from direct water access.

Just an idea,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 magicJack: +1 408 844 3932
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 8:56 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard



> pratt2 wrote:
> > We have 2 projects EV's and want to get our charging stations outside
> > for others to use.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Pratt2 wrote:
> 
> > What is the best connector to use to pass electrical inspections?
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> 
> > Since the truck
> > has 2, I'm going to put a CS6364 style under one, and a normal 120V
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Doug Weathers wrote:
> 
> > How are you going to isolate the plugs from each other? You
> > don't want the unused plug to be live when you plug in the other one.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like that idea.

I'm going to add a microswitch to the fuel door THANKS!

the problem with putting in a public charge point is I cant control what
pulls up.

we have 2 home built in progress and 3 Gem vehicles and thats all i can
control

my son is great for forgetting the plug on his geo

(Sorry, its only a battery tender)

he dd it so often I put a 2foot cord down to the bottom of the grill
with a standard 5-15 plug.

I've done it myself

nothing makes me feel more stupid then seeing that cord fly down the
driveway.





> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > they dont "break away"
> > >
> > Set things up so you CAN'T drive off while plugged in.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Excellent information.

thank you.

I was set on Avcon until i heard about the new standard i just wonder
how long before the new connector will be produced and made available.
our car should be ready before year end

I still may go with the Avcon.

if I go with 2 110v 5-20's on different legs would that still be level
1?

that way i can use 2 chargers onboard my car but plug into one station.

I always planned to have GFCI's at the source feed in the basement.



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > Pratt2 wrote:
> >
> > > What is the best connector to use to pass electrical inspections?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thats a good idea but I would have to change the charger controller
firmware before the inspection

there is a big fluorescent display on the front that says "Pisces EV
Charge Station" among other things.

similar connectors are in use at boat docks too.

I just dont want to jeopardize their green status

but I want to make it publicly accessible and promote it 

we will be showing the charger at the Trenton Computer Festival this
April tcf-nj.org

I wish this was a backyard prtoject




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > Why not NEMA 14-50?
> > In case the inspectors want to give you a
> > hard time and ask if it is for EV, then you
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > If you must have dedicated 120VAC and 240VAC inlets, you end up needing a pair of relays to interlock them. Have a 120VAC relay powered by the 120VAC inlet that disconnects both 240VAC hots. Have a 240VAc coil relay powered by the 240VAC inlet that disconnects the 120VAC hot (and perhaps neutral). Wire these so the relay coils remain connected to the inlet contacts regardless of whether or not either relay is on so you don't have any relay-race conditions. If you attempt to use both inlets at the same time, you get no power.
> >
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> If you must have dedicated 120VAC and 240VAC inlets, you end up
> needing a pair of relays to interlock them. Have a 120VAC relay
> powered by the 120VAC inlet that disconnects both 240VAC hots. Have
> a 240VAc coil relay powered by the 240VAC inlet that disconnects the
> 120VAC hot (and perhaps neutral). Wire these so the relay coils
> remain connected to the inlet contacts regardless of whether or not
> either relay is on so you don't have any relay-race conditions. If
> you attempt to use both inlets at the same time, you get no power.

There are a number of ways to deal with this problem. Interlock relays 
are just one of them.

The one you posted earlier is good; make two cords; one for 120v and one 
for 240v. The end that plugs onto the car is the same, but the other end 
is different for 120v or 240v receptacles.

Lester used a simple scheme on many of their chargers. There are two 
male plugs on the front panel; one for 120vac and one for 240vac. They 
are recessed into the panel, so you can't get your fingers on the prongs 
while plugging/unplugging. A sliding door covers *one* of them. To use 
120v, you slide the door to uncover the 120v plug and cover the 240v 
plug. Or for 240v charging, you slide the door to cover the 120v plug 
and uncover the 240v plug.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> I believe the SAE standards are private; available to members only,
> >> and for a fee.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > I apologize for not being clearer. I was writing with regard
> > to 240vac level-II charging. There are lots of listed 120vac
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> 
> > If I can find the right relays at not too exorbitant a price,
> > I'll probably do that.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pratt2" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


> Thats a good idea but I would have to change the charger controller
> firmware before the inspection
>
> there is a big fluorescent display on the front that says "Pisces EV
> Charge Station" among other things.
>
> similar connectors are in use at boat docks too.
>
> I just dont want to jeopardize their green status
>
> but I want to make it publicly accessible and promote it
>
> we will be showing the charger at the Trenton Computer Festival this
> April tcf-nj.org
>
> I wish this was a backyard prtoject
>
>
>


> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >> Why not NEMA 14-50?
> >> In case the inspectors want to give you a
> >> hard time and ask if it is for EV, then you
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pratt2" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


>I like that idea.
>
> I'm going to add a microswitch to the fuel door THANKS!
>
> the problem with putting in a public charge point is I cant control what
> pulls up.
>
> we have 2 home built in progress and 3 Gem vehicles and thats all i can
> control
>
> my son is great for forgetting the plug on his geo
>
> (Sorry, its only a battery tender)
>
> he dd it so often I put a 2foot cord down to the bottom of the grill
> with a standard 5-15 plug.
>
> I've done it myself
>
> nothing makes me feel more stupid then seeing that cord fly down the
> driveway.
>

Ha Ha! THAT'S where the EAA got it's logo idea from!I still have a few 
skinned up stench cords from doing that!Ya remember EVery time, now!

Bob 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> I don't know of any listed 240vac Level-II charger. It sounds like
> >> you are confirming that Delta-Q doesn't have one either?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > And, as said before, only use the switch to avoid "starting"
> > the EV, not to shut it down during a (bumpy) drive!
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Does NEC625 not apply to forklifts? Our forklift at work has a charger
(about 300lbs for the charger) that sits by the wall, then a set of 100A 48
volt DC contacts (a big anderson connector) plug into the battery bank to
charge the forklift. It's definitely level II charging (208 volts input,
about 6kW peak). To charge, you actually disconnect the battery bank from
the forklift, and plug it into the charger though, so there's no way you
could accidentally drive off while charging...

Z
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The standard home 110v duplex outlet can be wired with separate
circuits on each outlet. If these are from opposite legs, 220 is
available with an adapter cord. This is the way the outlets in my shop
are wired. A good reason for doing this at a public site is to allow 2
vehicles to charge at once without popping breakers.

Putting the GFI breaker for an outdoor charging site in the basement
would seem to be awfully inconvenient. How does it get reset?




-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The charger has a separate feed for it's logic and a signal tower on top
that goes red to alert the guards to the power fault. it also emails the
fault and will show it on the status web page we see

we were concerned about a user resetting it himself. we want them to ask
for help if they trip the gfci. if you trip it i want to see your setup
myself





> storm connors wrote:
> > The standard home 110v duplex outlet can be wired with separate
> > circuits on each outlet. If these are from opposite legs, 220 is
> > available with an adapter cord. This is the way the outlets in my shop
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> pratt2 wrote:
> > The charger has a separate feed for it's logic and a signal tower on top
> > that goes red to alert the guards to the power fault. it also emails the
> > fault and will show it on the status web page we see
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > Does NEC625 not apply to forklifts? Our forklift at work has a charger
> > (about 300lbs for the charger) that sits by the wall, then a set of 100A 48
> > volt DC contacts (a big anderson connector) plug into the battery bank to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "storm connors" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


> The standard home 110v duplex outlet can be wired with separate
> circuits on each outlet. If these are from opposite legs, 220 is
> available with an adapter cord. This is the way the outlets in my shop
> are wired. A good reason for doing this at a public site is to allow 2
> vehicles to charge at once without popping breakers.
>
> Putting the GFI breaker for an outdoor charging site in the basement
> would seem to be awfully inconvenient. How does it get reset?
>
> Good Point, Storm! I've gone places in my EV and had had the #$%^ 
> breaker trip and have NO knowledge as to WHERE the damn breaker is,to 
> reset it?Or you have to hunt down the maint. guy, HE'S off on vacation, 
> jury duty, or sick, on your day! Or ya need an act of Congress, AFTER they 
> approve Ohm's Law,to get reset. So ya HAVE to have a resetable breaker , 
> too. I mean by the driver desiring to sip a bit of juice?
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I just ran the cables from my inlets (Avcon and L6-30 under the license
plate) to a pair of L6-30 sockets in the front trunk. The GFCI breaker has
a second L6-30 inlet, so I just "Pre-Program" which inlet I want to use by
plugging it's outlet into the inlet on the breaker.

Also the license plate opens a microswitch when it's up, acting as a
no-start signal. I did use one relay though, a locking relay fed from the
key Start position to provide 12V to my controller Start input, with the
charge door switch inhibiting it if the door is open.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I just bought a charger from Ryan Bohm at EVSource. It has a lead that
is pack voltage when the charger is unplugged, 0 volts when plugged
in. I fed my precharge resistor from that so it can't power up when
plugged in. Pretty neat and simple.



> Mike Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I just ran the cables from my inlets (Avcon and L6-30 under the license
> > plate) to a pair of L6-30 sockets in the front trunk. The GFCI breaker=
> has
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here is another approach used by ambulances. The plug ejects when the
ignition is turned on.
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item130.htm


> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's pretty sweet, I have to say.

2009/3/31 storm connors <[email protected]>

> Here is another approach used by ambulances. The plug ejects when the
> ignition is turned on.
> http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item130.htm
>
>
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > Storm
> >
>
>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for the reply, Roger. Very much appreciated, as always.



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > I just used an L14-30 inlet which has two hots, neutral, and
> > earth. If your charger accepts 120-240VAC,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Lester used a simple scheme on many of their chargers. There are two
> > male plugs on the front panel; one for 120vac and one for 240vac. They
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Then I'm still confused! Exactly what UL listed chargers does
> > Delta-Q have? Are they UL listed for 120vac only, or also for 240vac?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> storm connors wrote:
> 
> > I just bought a charger from Ryan Bohm at EVSource. It has a
> > lead that is pack voltage when the charger is unplugged, 0
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Doug Weathers wrote:
> 
> > > you could wire it to the two hots and make two different
> > > charge cords, one with a 120VAC plug and the other with
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Doug Weathers wrote:
> 
> > But as simple as this is, Roger's single-socket-dual-cord
> > suggestion is simpler.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Of course a 240V GFCI can detect problems in one of the hot
legs (on 120V) if you wire it properly and have *all 3*
wires: hot - neutral - hot, go through the current
imbalance detection. You are after all checking for
leaks to *ground* so the only thing that should not go
through the GFCI is the ground wire that is returning from
the vehicle (plug) and any leakage to ground will be
detected and you will be required to shut off *both* hot
circuits as in the ganged breaker situation.

NOTE that it does not make a difference if the ground and
neutral are shorted together at your service panel, as
long as you properly use 4-prong plugs to connect the
2 hot, neutral and ground separately.
So a NEMA 14-50 is a good plug.
The NEMA 10-50 will only allow you to use GFCI in your
installation if you use it exclusively for 240V operation
and never try to take 120V from the "ground" wire and one
hot - but this is typically done in a stove and other
appliances to run the controls from 120V.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 magicJack: +1 408 844 3932
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:04 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


Thanks for the reply, Roger. Very much appreciated, as always.



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > I just used an L14-30 inlet which has two hots, neutral, and
> > earth. If your charger accepts 120-240VAC,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is a reason why such a (rather complicated) feature is
installed on an ambulance: you do not want the ambulance to
be disabled when its operator forgets to unplug, it cannot
wait, it *has* to leave immediately, so they decided that
instead of disabling the ambulance when still plugged in,
it makes sense to add an automatic ejecting socket.

I think that for the average EV the needs are slightly different
and it won't be beneficial to most EV'ers to get in their EV,
start and see their live cord disappear in the puddle next to
their car or fall under their rear tire while backing out
of the driveway...
Unless you can find a very convenient / standard location
to locate such an automatic ejecting socket and you have a
secure location where the cord will stay after you drove
away from the live cord, I fear that is may be a nifty
gadget without much practical value for most people.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 magicJack: +1 408 844 3932
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of storm connors
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:27 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard

Here is another approach used by ambulances. The plug ejects when the
ignition is turned on.
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item130.htm


> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Roger. I wish the folks at Delta-Q had offered a 144V charger.
I'd have bought one just on the basis of your representation of the
company.IIR you intimated they were planning on doing so a year ago.

I think my 60 watt "light emitting resistor" in series with the
precharge should keep the current low enough to avoid problems. What
does KSI stand for anyway?

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wr=
ote:


> > storm connors wrote:
> >
> >> I just bought a charger from Ryan Bohm at EVSource. It has a
> >> lead that is pack voltage when the charger is unplugged, 0
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> storm connors wrote:
> > Thanks Roger. I wish the folks at Delta-Q had offered a 144V charger.
> > I'd have bought one just on the basis of your representation of the
> > company.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> storm connors wrote:
> 
> > I wish the folks at Delta-Q had offered a 144V charger.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > So, if I understand the situation: All of Delta-Q's chargers
> > are UL and CE listed, regardless of whether they are for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

NEC 625 concerns itself with the facility. Has very little do do with the actual battery charger or the car. The 625 definition stops at the charging plug with the exception of that the vehicle drive is to be disabled while the charger cord is connected, energized or not for all cars. Adequate ventilation is required for cars with lead acid batteries though.

As far as J1772 and NEC 625 are concerned the Delta-Q simply is dumb charger. The part of J1772 the Delta-Q doesn't comply with is that it does not check the pilot signal to determine how much power it can use. It charges the EV at the maximum set capacity whether or not the facility can deliver it. Just like 99% of the chargers on the market today. For the Delta-Q to be a problem with 625 it has to be bolted to the wall. If it is mounted in the car it is outside of NEC 625 jurisdiction.

The Delta-Q has a universal input. In other words it will plug into any outlet in the world 90 - 240 volts 50 or 60 hertz. The Zivan charger, for example, you have to buy either a 110 or a 220 volt model and not make the mistake of plugging a 110 volt unit into 220. All new EV's will have a universal input simply because it makes life after the sale much simpler.


----------------------------------------------------
"What the detractors and critics of electric vehicles 
have been saying for years, is true. The electric 
vehicle is not for everybody, given the limited range 
it can only meet the needs of 90% of the population."

Ed Begley Jr.
----------------------------------------------------


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:40:00 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



> storm connors wrote:
> > Thanks Roger. I wish the folks at Delta-Q had offered a 144V charger.
> > I'd have bought one just on the basis of your representation of the
> > company.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks again, Roger.

I think it was you that convinced me to go with the two contactors- my
apologies and thanks if it was someone else.

With the Raptor, formerly the precharge was fed from the hot side of
the positive contactor, it is now fed from the power controlled by the
charger. I turn on the negative contactor with the key switch. This
enables the precharge to start. When the precharge is complete, the
Raptor turns on the positive contactor.
>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrot=
e:


>
> If you have contactors in both the pack +ve and -ve, then you could conne=
ct the precharge resistor directly across one of them, and use the charger'=
s enable output to feed the controller's low-current KSI input instead. =
With the key off, both contactors are open and the precharge resistor is "d=
isconnected" from the controller by the contactor on the other side of the =
pack; with the key on, both contactors close and the controller precharges,=
but the controller remains disabled until the AC is unplugged and the char=
ger connects pack voltage to the controller's KSI input.





-- =

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> storm connors wrote:
> > Thanks Roger. I wish the folks at Delta-Q had offered a 144V charger.
> > I'd have bought one just on the basis of your representation of the
> > company.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J1772 Standard


> That's pretty sweet, I have to say.
>
> 2009/3/31 storm connors <[email protected]>
>
>> Here is another approach used by ambulances. The plug ejects when the
>> ignition is turned on.
>> http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item130.htm
>>
>>
>> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
>> > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
>> > Storm
>> >
BUT didya check the price!? Feh! A Tesla Stocking stuffer for the guy 
that has EVerything?For the REST of us, ya could just have yur stock Home 
Despot plug arranged so the car could just PULL it out, no angles here?Cord 
stays, and CAR can drive off! MOST EV' have enough power to do that?

Bob
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Rush <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been doing a little research on the J1772 Standard since Tucson is
> ...


----------

