# Pistachio - '64 Fiat 500 Hybrid



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Yup, here I go again!  The truth of the matter is Schism is no longer "my" car. Team Inhaler's passion and the Inhaler Project's needs have once again laid claim to what was intended to be "Todd's Hot Rod". I have been struggling, all summer, with whether or not to let it go. The biggest issue was what do I do for myself in its place?

A quick fact: This has virtually no affect on Schism. My Team has been doing all the hard work, and using it as a tool to help them grow has been my focus anyway, so there will be no change there. It is still number one priority, until we turn our attention back to the Model E. The only difference, for Schism, is I will give the Team a _little_ more discretion in design and execution. 

Now, about Pistachio. It's going to be built from sratch - surprise, surprise - on our G-bucket platform. "1964", is an arbitrary number, chosen because that's the year I was born, and I have often toyed with the idea of having an old car of the same _vintage_. The frame is already built, and was going to be the G-bucket kit car prototype - I'm claiming it in return for surrendering my toy for the good of the organization. It will be gas/electric hybrid, with the Ninja motorcycle engine from Scrape, and a little AC motor I nabbed for $25. My goal is to rewind it to meet my needs (as much for the experience as for saving a buck). If that plan fails it will, eventually, be replaced with an HPEVS motor of the same size. I want to build a P&S AC inverter when there is a kit, or enough parts and "how-to" available to suit my novice needs.

Without further ado, meet Pistachio:

















The CAD renderings are rough because I am sorting out the basic layout and form with a free (Google SketchUp) 3D model of the body. I will eventually remodel the entire thing with NURBS modeling, where I'm working, in Rhino. I could smooth out the meshes, but that just slows my system down, for no real benefit. So far, the body has been reshaped pretty extensively; including much, much, larger flares (I think they qualify as fenders at this point - kind of VW-ish), rolled front and rear fasicas, and shaving a lot of little extra crap.

Those are 345mm section width rear tires!  The suspension will be Pontiac Fiero front and rear - no modifications, just custom brackets to mount it (and no crazy "Todd" style brackets, just neat steel brackets). It will have a full cage, probably at least close to NHRA/SCTA specs, for what it's worth, considering the 73" wheelbase isn't legal. I may have a loophole there though because they (NHRA) say, unless the OEM wheelbase was less than 90" - I'm currently about 1/2" longer.  The cage is really for safety on American, SUV-infested, streets. The Fiero suspension parts are on the shelf, except for two rear knuckles - about $100. I have four huge foam blocks to cut the body plugs from (more CAD/CNC, ShopBot carved stuff). The Ninja motor supposedly just needs a head gasket... I plan to remove the pinion shaft and gear, cut the front off the Toyota IRS diff I have, replace the ring gear with a sprocket, and fabricate a chain case. The Ninja motor will drive it via chain.

I'm going to try to make it go together as quickly as possible. I will be doing most of the work, to allow the Team to focus on Schism, and any work on Pistachio is also going to be done around my design, teaching, and supervision, with Schism. That's how Scrape is being built and it's coming together pretty quickly. Other than mock-ups, and light fabrication, I probably won't get too seriously involved with Pistachio, yet, until Scrape is ride-able (at scooter speeds).

I have not decided how the electric motor will interface with the rear drive system (no AWD on this one). It will be mounted over the back of the engine and diff, but coupling it directly, via chain, presents a problem - the Ninja engine redlines at 11K!  If it's safe for it to freewheel that fast I can just have it set to stop receiving power at a certain RPM. Thoughts?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The Ninja gauge cluster looks like it was made to be on the Honda steering column. (We're building a custom column for Schism, so Pistachio gets the hand-me-down...)



















Hopefully you can make the chassis out, in the midst of the clutter. We're doing a lot of reorganizing these days and the wall behind Pistachio is full of crap that hasn't be assigned a new home yet. Sorry. 











Here's the little motor:

























I'm shooting for a final weight of under a thousand pounds, so an HPEVS motor would have absolutely no problem moving this little rascal around. Hopefully, we'll crack this thing open one day and find out it has the right stuff to be similar to an HPEVS motor.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Those old Fiat's are awesome! Are you going to have the fat tube bumper on front to facilitate parallel parking?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Those old Fiat's are awesome! Are you going to have the fat tube bumper on front to facilitate parallel parking?


Agreed Ziggy. I really never paid them any attention, until I saw the new ones, which made me take a look to see what they were recreating - I love the old ones! 

Sorry, no fat tube bumper.  Probably no bumper at all. The most would be a thin 60's American musclecar style piece, but in black instead of chrome.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Probably for the better. Americans would frown on using the bumper for bumping, but it's sure fun to watch!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

One of the main issues I had with Schism for a Todd Perkins Design company project was, to satisfy the immediate needs of the Inhaler Project, it became heavily biased towards hand fabrication. While that's great for marketing the Inhaler Project's ability to mentor and develop incredibly skilled individuals, it was kind of crippling for my (typically CAD based) design work. I do develop a lot of the patterns for Schism in CAD, but that's not the ultimate expression of my work I was seeking to showcase with the project.

To make sure that doesn't happen again, I am basing everything on design with Pistachio. The actual car is a tangible expression of creative design, and this is _not_ a case of design work merely being a support mechanism for a physical car. This art rendering will evolve and grow with the project, but the most important thing was to set the tone for the project, to try and maintain my focus.








"Abarth-Ninja" and "old meets new" are the key themes in the concept. I replaced the Italian flag colors with U.S. colors in the badge's banner section, then replaced the scorpion with a Ninja "action figure" silhouette, over the upholstery and paint colors; narrowed the lower band of the ralleye stripe, and added the Ninja script. The second step in setting the tone for the body (and project) was to incorporate the new style rag top. Now I start to smooth out and detail the body to guide my CAD work.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

This would be so good as pure electric.....



You could have a double sprocket, on a sprag clutch, on the motor shaft. A chain form the ICE would go to the first motor sprocket and then a chain from the second motor sprocket would go to the diff.
That would allow the ICE to spin faster then the motor but allow the motor to assist the ICE at low speeds.

Alternatively fit a sprag clutch sprocket on both the motor and the ICE and then have two chains to a double sprocket on the diff. Then either ICE or motor could drive the diff without driving the other.

What are your plans for reverse gear? That would throw all the above out the window.

How about a Quaife diff with reverse gear?
Here also.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...This would be so good as pure electric........


Lol, almost as good as it will be in hybrid form! 






Woodsmith said:


> ...You could have a double sprocket, on a sprag clutch, on the motor shaft. A chain form the ICE would go to the first motor sprocket and then a chain from the second motor sprocket would go to the diff.
> That would allow the ICE to spin faster then the motor but allow the motor to assist the ICE at low speeds.
> 
> Alternatively fit a sprag clutch sprocket on both the motor and the ICE and then have two chains to a double sprocket on the diff. Then either ICE or motor could drive the diff without driving the other...


I think I like the first one; maybe with the double sprocket on the ICE, and some type of clutch on the electric motor. That way I have one neat, direct, chain path from the ICE to the diff.







Woodsmith said:


> ...What are your plans for reverse gear? That would throw all the above out the window....


Good point because I plan to use the electric motor for reverse. I guess I need a conventional clutch. I need to check into adapting one of those little 4.5-5.5" circle track racing clutches.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

In between working on Scrape, and starting to prepare for the next round of interns, I worked on Pistachio's hybrid drivetrain. The biggest change is I am turning the motor 90-degrees and simply coupling the transmission output shaft to the differential input. The electric motor can then simply drive a sprocket on that coupler. In this rendering, I have it geared down 3:1 (over the diff's reduction), but that's all TBD.









The chain is a quick mesh and surface mock-up. If you look close you can see where I lost my count and have the wrong link in the wrong place, rollers not seated in the teeth of the sprockets, etc. I'll probably fix all that later, then decide to run a belt and scrap the whole digital chain drive setup...


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

This was such a cool project - then you wrecked it!!

You NEED the Scorpion - get shot of the ninja - it's an Abarth not a Honda


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Duncan said:


> This was such a cool project - then you wrecked it!!
> 
> You NEED the Scorpion - get shot of the ninja - it's an Abarth not a Honda


Not quite sure what you're getting at - nothing has changed, same plan as the first post, expect for turning the engine and motor 90-degrees.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Not quite sure what you're getting at - nothing has changed, same plan as the first post, expect for turning the engine and motor 90-degrees.


I think Duncan means the badge, he isn't keen on the Ninja motif.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Its like building a D Type Jaguar replica and putting a sheep on it!

Abarth = Scorpion

One of the best sneaker cars I knew was a blue Fiat 500 - with a small silver scorpion on the engine cover - no other badges

But then I like it like that - some turbocharged trucks didn't say "Turbo" 
They said "Intercooled" much classier

Put a Ninja on a Honda or a Kawasaki - but leave the Scorpion alone


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I think Duncan means the badge, he isn't keen on the Ninja motif.


Again though, that logo has been _out_ for a little over a month.



Duncan said:


> ...Put a Ninja on a Honda or a Kawasaki - but leave the Scorpion alone


Sorry dude, the Ninja stays. I don't harp on it too much because this is DIY _Electric Car_, but the *Kawasaki Ninja engine* is and was the cornerstone of the whole project. Without the Ninja (engine) inside, it wouldn't exist, and the badge tells that story.

Hmmm, maybe I should put a cable with a plug in the Ninja's hand, instead of a sword!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

In the effort to recover from my recent external hard drive crash and burn, and desire to do something enjoyable to relax from months of looming deadlines coming to an end, I decided to start over on the CAD model for Pistachio's body. It's actually coming out better this time, with much more detail. I am literally bending, twisting, and stretching this little Fiat in every conceivable direction, around those massive tires. 









Recap(tured) from the old model: I blew up the fender flares into VW Bug sized fenders, and twisted and formed them around the tires; and rolled the front and rear fascias. New to this model, I also rolled the entire sides of the car, along with the fender "flares", under and in towards the G-bucket frame rails (no yet recreated). I also cut the new style rag top in the model this time, and gave it a faux carbon fiber texture. It would have to fold up and tuck inside the body if created in carbon fiber. Finally, I found a set of my 100-spoke "Dayton" wires, and my bubblehead people, stashed on the shop computer, and threw them in. Wires do fit the Euro theme, so who knows...


----------



## asimor (Nov 14, 2012)

Amazing! I'm waiting to see your project further how?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

asimor said:


> Amazing! I'm waiting to see your project further how?


Thanks asimor. Unfortunately, this project is probably going to be terminated. It's a long story but it was born out of the need/desire to donate my hot rod (Schism, in my sig) to my non-profit, but that didn't happen. The hot rod was a bit too intense, too extreme, for the needs of the organization; as is Pistachio. I ended up keeping Schism, and designing a new project for the non-profit, that better suits its needs.


----------



## asimor (Nov 14, 2012)

toddshotrods said:


> Thanks asimor. Unfortunately, this project is probably going to be terminated. It's a long story but it was born out of the need/desire to donate my hot rod (Schism, in my sig) to my non-profit, but that didn't happen. The hot rod was a bit too intense, too extreme, for the needs of the organization; as is Pistachio. I ended up keeping Schism, and designing a new project for the non-profit, that better suits its needs.


Hi toddshotrods, really unfortunately. I also intend to convert my Honda N360 to hybrid car. Hope to get your comment...
Thanks!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

asimor said:


> Hi toddshotrods, really unfortunately. I also intend to convert my Honda N360 to hybrid car. Hope to get your comment...
> Thanks!


Sounds like fun. Start a build thread (PM me if I miss it) when you get started, and I'd be happy to give my two pennies worth...


----------



## asimor (Nov 14, 2012)

toddshotrods said:


> Sounds like fun. Start a build thread (PM me if I miss it) when you get started, and I'd be happy to give my two pennies worth...


Hi tod.
Please check my PM. 
Thanks!


----------



## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

asimor said:


> Hi toddshotrods, really unfortunately. I also intend to convert my Honda N360 to hybrid car. Hope to get your comment...
> Thanks!


I've thought of the same on my subaru 360, mainly because of the gasser parts rusting apart.

Remember though, keep the 10" tires, bigger ones ruin the design, unless you get 14" 165/60 RE92 energy savers, then its good for the efficiency.

Ah well.


----------

