# 207.5mpge



## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

We did it completed testing of our electric sedan read about it in our latest blog! http://www.illuminatimotorworks.com/blog feel free to ask any questions.


----------



## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Very nice indeed. Having finished the project, what things would you change to improve the overall performance of the car? I am most interested in range improvements (other than adding batteries) such as how you achieved your high drive system efficiency and how you decreased rolling resistance Crr (avg is .015 or so I have heard). Also, you state your drag coefficient to be 0.23 pending more tests. Aerocivic states 0.17. Is there anything you would add or subtract to bring this drag down?

Sorry, one more set of questions. How is your motor treating you, I was thinking of using the same one for my conversion. How much did the powertrain cost (motor, battery, inverter, controller, charger, bms if any)? Do you discharge your batteries to 100% dod for range measurements or did you go to 80% or somewhere in between?


----------



## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

Very nice indeed. Having finished the project, what things would you change to improve the overall performance of the car? 

I don't know if the project will ever be finished, but it is a fully operational battle station, no wait that was another conversation. How would we improve overall performance of the car? The car performs so well it is hard to imagine squeezing much more out of it as far as efficiency. We just can’t get much more efficient without a complete rebuilding a new car. We have given a lot of thought and have come down to reducing weight, which we know how to do, and a proper CFD analysis of the vehicle to improve aerodynamics. Another thing we would probably do is heat our batteries, for they perform much better when warmed up, this could be done by using the heat generated by the motor and controller. 

I am most interested in range improvements (other than adding batteries) such as how you achieved your high drive system efficiency and how you decreased rolling resistance Crr (avg is .015 or so I have heard). Also, you state your drag coefficient to be 0.23 pending more tests. Aerocivic states 0.17. Is there anything you would add or subtract to bring this drag down? 

Last weekend we drove Seven 214 miles on 32.3kwh of electricity from our battery pack. That is something like 150watts/mile. We were slowed down by the hills on Interstate 55 from St.Louis to Cape Girardeau, which tell a lot of people where we were going. We took the longer more level route back and used 145watts/mile. Those numbers are pretty amazing causing some to throw up their hands, but we did it and can do it again. 
Our drive system is efficient because it is simple and well tuned. The MES DEA TIM600 inverter is driving a 40KW motor designed to be in electric vehicles. The transmission is from a Geo metro with all but 4th and 3rd removed, and the clutch disk solidly mounted to our coupler. 
We are using the Bridgestone B381 low rolling resistance tires around 45psi and one secret that isn’t our secret but one we are keeping for friends, and we would share it if we could. 

Sorry, one more set of questions. How is your motor treating you, I was thinking of using the same one for my conversion.
Seven is approaching 4000miles on the odometer, and the motor has performed well the installation and tuning take some fineness, but the results speak for themselves.

How much did the powertrain cost (motor, battery, inverter, controller, charger, bms if any)? 

I think including batteries the drive train cost around $28000.00, but batteries and the motor controller have come down in price. Motor $6425.00 Inverter $3653.00, Batteries $9200.00 Charger $3100.00. Figure another $1000.00 to connect everything. We originally had a bms on the pack, but have found it to be unnecessary, and that is a whole can of worms I am not going to get into. People who think they need a bms should use them, we don’t. We had to pay a premium because we buy everything one at a time don't we.

Do you discharge your batteries to 100% dod for range measurements or did you go to 80% or somewhere in between? 

We only discharged to 2.88V/cell on our 214mile trip; we use a Victron Energy bvm600hs to monitor the pack. We consider 80% dod to be 100% so we discharge to 2.5V/cell, but who lets their tank run empty every time before they fill it?

Very nice questions; who do you work for, felt like we were being interviewed, maybe we were.


Nathan Knappenburger
Illuminati Motor Works


----------



## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to answer. No I don't work for anyone, just a college kid with lots of questions  I am actually studying aerospace engineering and very interested in CFD so the aerodynamic improvements really get me going. It would be wonderful if I could make a program that lets you put in your car shape and it calculates your Cd, CdA, which is another project entirely. I am planning a crx conversion, probably start in 2-3 years when I finish school and get a job with a steady paycheck, unless I can find some sponsors who will let me build it earlier. Money is always the problem isn't it? The goal is 300 miles at 65 mph with a budget of $25k excluding the cost of the donor car. I would love to build a car from the ground up like you guys did, but sadly I don't have the experience or the knowledge, tools, money, space, etc. Also I would worry about safety if I did it since I hate doing structures analysis.  I think a conversion with my budget is just on the edge of possible with some heavy modification. Hopefully someone will take notice and build my 300 freeway-mile electric car for <$30k, or hire me to do it for them


----------



## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

300 miles at 65 for under $25,000.00, in an electric car, now that sounds like a challenge. I am telling you, you cannot do it, now go prove me wrong! 

p.s. look at using only 9hp or less, less means cheaper at that speed.

I mean totally impossible you must be crazy. 

p.p.s Honda 2000-2006 insight lightest slipperiest safe chassis.

I wouldn’t waste my time with such foolishness, go chase girls or party like other college students. 

good luck


----------



## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

I know that the Insight is the best car to convert but they are so rare I could not hope to get one for a decent price. CRX's are plentiful in my area so that is my next best option. Where did you get your MES stuff, metricmind.com? The prices there all reflect the prices you paid (you said something about the controller dropping in price). Also, where did you get 200Kw max power for your motor and 160Kw max for your controller? I couldn't find those specs anywhere. Do you have the spec sheets somewhere that I could reference? This is just my weekday project, I do plenty of partying and girl-chasing


----------



## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

The 160kw max from the controller comes off the data plate 400V * 400Amps we have seen over 130kw delivered from the controller, we are currently limiting the controller to 400 amps. The 200Kw for the motor is kind of a guess, because a motor has infinite power potential until the smoke comes out. The manufacture sells the motor for a continuous duty of 40Kw. For brief periods you can run the motor at 200kw. It might even do it for a complete discharge of our battery pack but we would need to going around 190mph our car gets squirrely around 130 so we would need to get that smoothed out first.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Nice work! Impressive! Over 200 mpge at those speeds is great!


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

docean24, You are likely aware of these guys, but just in case:
http://www.electro-vehicles.eu/
Seem to have some nice AC motors at decent price. Maybe you will get lucky and a major price reduction in batteries will occur in 2-3 years.


----------



## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

I did not see that source, thank you. Unfortunately I would have to pay in US so the conversion rate is not favorable at the time. It actually turns out to be slightly more than metricmind for the mes 200-330, but I didn't really look at any of the others in too much detail. I will try to see if those motors are available in the US, thanks for expanding my selection


----------



## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

The MES DEA motors Victor sells also come with a standard keyway shaft designed for a taper bushing, which makes it easier to mount a flywheel to. Our 40kw motor is a bit excessive but it does work well.


----------



## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Where did you buy your batteries from? Did you get any sort of deal? When I do the calculation on cost of your system, the amount comes out around $12k. That was 96 ts-100ah giving a voltage of 326. I am using this site for prices http://www.3xe-electric-cars.com/im...ry-cell-180ah-promotion-3xE-electric-cars.jpg


----------



## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

That seams like a fair price we got our batteries for pretty much cost because we had a sponsor in EV components when they were in business. The batteries are expensive but they are worth the price imho. 
We are actually up to 99 cells and the pack rests around 331 volts charged. We are giving up some voltage on the high end of our charge for the security of not driving our cells low on the bottom.


----------

