# How are all these controlled?



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What language were those written in?

They can't all be done by the controller.

1, 2) Charger or plug circuit
3, 4, 6, 7) Controller or additional circuit

5 makes no sense.


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## Benjamin515 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks Ziggy.

These were all written in Dutch. I did a somewhat poor translation to English.

Do I have to buy a Zilla for this?


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## Benjamin515 (Apr 12, 2012)

What is the US version of the CE marking?


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## Quinny (Nov 17, 2011)

The RDW also has regulations for EV conversions in .nl. Look at their website as well (you'll have to have your conversion tested by them to make it road legal anyway...).

I don't think there is a "US version of the CE marking", I once read somewhere that there is a Chinese version, but that one just means "Chinese Export" (it looks the same as the EU CE mark too...).

There is a company in .nl that had Soliton and Soliton Jr. controllers tested and they sell a €600 kit to make it comply with EU regulations (they sell pre-converted controllers too). They are on the ev-netics website as an official distributor.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Benjamin515 said:


> Thanks Ziggy.
> 
> These were all written in Dutch. I did a somewhat poor translation to English.
> 
> Do I have to buy a Zilla for this?


Most of the safety requirements you listed are already incorporated into Evnetics controllers and you can even get EMC/safety approved versions from our authorized agent, Rebbl.

No other DC motor controller suitable for on-road EVs has a CE mark, and to tell the truth, I can't blame them - we've sold maybe 10-20 controllers into the EU since Rebbl got them CE approved. That's not exactly a great return on a nearly 40.000 Euro investment.

The US takes a very different approach to EMC and safety compliance compared to the EU. Products that connect to the AC mains have to comply with similar rules as required the CE mark, but stuff in cars mainly has to comply with rules that the automakers have agreed upon. Since we aren't supplying stuff to the automakers we don't really care whether we comply with their rules or not. The FCC, however, requires that no product be an unintentional emitter of radio waves; motor controllers with plastic end caps definitely violate that rule.


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## DJBecker (Nov 3, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> No other DC motor controller suitable for on-road EVs has a CE mark, and to tell the truth, I can't blame them - we've sold maybe 10-20 controllers into the EU since Rebbl got them CE approved. That's not exactly a great return on a nearly 40.000 Euro investment.


600 Euros sounds like a steep mark-up until you look at the testing cost. They'll have to sell 100 units or somehow enable another part of their business to get a return on that expense and risk.



Tesseract said:


> The FCC, however, requires that no product be an unintentional emitter of radio waves; motor controllers with plastic end caps definitely violate that rule.


I don't agree that a plastic end-cap necessarily means that it won't pass testing. Perhaps you mean that the existing motor controllers with plastic end caps won't pass, and that design hints that EM compatibility was not part considered in the design.


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## Quinny (Nov 17, 2011)

DJBecker said:


> 600 Euros sounds like a steep mark-up until you look at the testing cost. They'll have to sell 100 units or somehow enable another part of their business to get a return on that expense and risk.


Considering that their business is converting ICE cars to EVs, they would have had to stop their business if they didn't do that investment...

And that would have stopped all other EV conversions in the EU as well... Unless you live in a country that takes EU regulations more like hints than regulations...


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Benjamin515 said:


> Hi,
> 
> While the conversion goes as it goes, I downloaded the European rules and I'm trying to figure out how to apply them in the vehicle. This is not an easy one. Who can help with these? Are all of these connected to the controller?
> 
> ...


Cars have an ignition lock that is controlled by a KEY.
this would be changed over to control the Contactors, for the Controller and the Charger.
This takes Care of 1,3,6
#2 is taken care of by the Connector used to connect the external source. The pins inable the external power to activated the contactor to the charger if the Ignition lock is off.
BMS takes care of #4
AC motors are not effected by #5, a Contactor between the Controller and DC motor would take care of this. 
#7 is accomplished by a unit that monitors the BMS, if it has heat sensing and communication of the status, Controller if it has communication about heat and the motor with temperature sensors.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Tomorrow Martijn his DIY converted Volvo 245 Electric will visit the RDW test center for the ECE R100 safety approval & dynamic road and brake performance testing. Hope that everything will pass smoothly when we're there. Ill bring a video camera and try to get it documented as far as they allow.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DJBecker said:


> 600 Euros sounds like a steep mark-up until you look at the testing cost. They'll have to sell 100 units or somehow enable another part of their business to get a return on that expense and risk.


Precisely. And at the rate they are going they should be cash flow positive on that expense around, oh, 2020. We make a damn fine product if I do say so myself, but it's definitely going to be obsolete before then. 



DJBecker said:


> I don't agree that a plastic end-cap necessarily means that it won't pass testing. Perhaps you mean that the existing motor controllers with plastic end caps won't pass, and that design hints that EM compatibility was not part considered in the design.


No, I really meant that if there are plastic end caps on the enclosure of a motor controller they will allow so much EMI to escape that there is no hope the controller will pass an EMC compliance test. The enclosure is essentially a tube, then, with both "open" ends acting as slot antennas.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Does #5 (0.1m movement) apply for a failure of the motor controller? Say an IGBT short?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> Does #5 (0.1m movement) apply for a failure of the motor controller? Say an IGBT short?


That is primarily what it applies to, is how I understand it.


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## Quinny (Nov 17, 2011)

Benjamin515: Do you happen to have a link to these regulations in the original Dutch?


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## Benjamin515 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the answers!! Back to the drawing-board again.

@Steven: Does Martijn have a blog or vlog were he is describing how he converted the Volvo and what parts he used in compliance with the European standards?

@Quinny: Here you go: 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:045:0017:0047:NL:PDF


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## Quinny (Nov 17, 2011)

Benjamin515 said:


> Thanks guys for all the answers!! Back to the drawing-board again.
> 
> @Steven: Does Martijn have a blog or vlog were he is describing how he converted the Volvo and what parts he used in compliance with the European standards?
> 
> ...


I believe this document is intended for production EV's, not conversions. Take a look at the website of the RDW, they should have regulations specific for EV conversions.


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