# News item just now



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I didn't get the notice directly, merely saw this earlier today:

"Consumers are urged to reduce energy use from 4 to 9pm when the system is most stressed because demand for electricity remains high & there is less solar energy available," 









Californians told not to charge EVs as grid struggles in heat wave


Californians were told Wednesday not to charge their electric vehicles during peak hours, just days after the state said it would stop selling gas-powered cars, as the aging electricity grid struggles with a fearsome heatwave.




techxplore.com





An EV can set the time it charges

A utility can remotely shed equipment & chargers.

The coastal population, more than half the population, doesn't need A/C at night.

Fossils-advocating drama queens.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Mack the nife said:


> California govt, is telling people NOT to charge their electric cars ,. There is not enough power to keep all the
> Grid from blackouts this week end...


No, they're saying not to charge at the times when demand is high compared to supply, just as they would like everyone to avoid any unnecessary electrical demand at those times.



Mack the nife said:


> ... go figure they want to stop sales of new gas powered cars and they can't charge the ones they have now


I don't see any indication that the EVs that are in use now can't be charged every night, or even in the middle of the day.


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## Mack the nife (5 mo ago)

Just writing out what the news said on TV , and naturally they jump to high to report something they only have half of the info ..


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## Mack the nife (5 mo ago)

Forgot , the news report said ,,Pacific gas and power asked not to charge EVs during the labor day week end .
That's them , not me


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

It also wouldn't hurt to embrace the idea of meaningful communication. The thread title of "News item just now" might as well be blank, given that it is in a section called "News". Maybe "California tells people not to charge cars"?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Meanwhile, EV America announced free charging for the weekend. California's freakout timing is not a coincidence, I think.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Mack the nife said:


> Forgot , the news report said ,,Pacific gas and power asked not to charge EVs during the labor day week end .
> That's them , not me


Did they? PG&E's web site has a section for "Flex Alert and Event Days" and there's no mention there of all-day requests for the weekend.

Without a link to the news report, or at least the name of the news agency, there's no way to see what was actually reported.

By the way, it's Pacific Gas & Electric (not "power"). Small errors suggest that there are other errors...


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Saying not to charge cars, as the fossil states have framed it (Virginia's governor is being a dick about EVs now), is misleading. I have yet to see California actually say no charging 24/4


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## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

http://www.caiso.com/Documents/california-iso-extends-flex-alert-to-thursday-sept-1.pdf


Last paragraph
To minimize discomfort and help with grid stability, consumers are also encouraged to
pre-cool their homes and use major appliances and charge electric vehicles and
electronic devices before 4 p.m., when conservation begins to become most critical. 
later floyd


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

California is often described as the "6th largest economy" that is self-sustaining and without the need for other states. Perhaps it's time they prove they're not full of it


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I guess Oregon has to charge before 4pm as well...don't want to wake the salmon with those hydro turbines by night charging! 😂


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## hallkbrdz (Jan 2, 2018)

California is a great example on how NOT to develop energy sources. I'm not surprised they are having more supply issues, even though they import a significant amount of the power they use from other states. There is simply no excuse for not having an adequate supply for even the most extreme demand days for charging EVs, running air conditioning, heating, industry, or whatever. It's all down to bad decisions and management.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

PG&E got their peepees slapped pretty severely by lawyers after their equipment was blamed for the recent Camp Fire -- this included bankruptcy: PG&E confesses to killing 84 people in 2018 California fire as part of guilty plea | Pacific Gas and Electric Company | The Guardian

Hot & windy day during dry season? Expect a blackout....as there should be...and should have been. No matter the capacity excess.


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## hallkbrdz (Jan 2, 2018)

Hot and windy Santa Ana winds are is nothing new in California. I experienced them along with many local fires in the early 90s around Vandenberg AFB. But when combined with faulty electrical equipment and poor forest management - you're asking for a disaster.

Blackouts aren't the answer, that's what a third-world nation would do. A well maintained electrical grid with properly managed (thinned and trimmed) forests, especially along electrical lines, is what is needed. But then I remember how nuts Santa Barbara county was about cutting down a single tree on base, or stepping on a twig "tree" when surveying. I doubt it's got any better since then. They've done this to themselves, and again are a good example of what not to do.


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

hallkbrdz said:


> California is a great example on how NOT to develop energy sources. I'm not surprised they are having more supply issues, even though they import a significant amount of the power they use from other states. There is simply no excuse for not having an adequate supply for even the most extreme demand days for charging EVs, running air conditioning, heating, industry, or whatever. It's all down to bad decisions and management.


California has 40 Million people, the next most populous state is Texas with 30 Million, that's a lot of power to deliver on a good day, and the California power grid hasn't had a lot of good days in the last couple of decades. Eventually, the power companies will have to admit it's better long-term to update the grid than to continually patch it.


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

Mack the nife said:


> California govt, is telling people NOT to charge their electric cars ,. There is not enough power to keep all the
> Grid from blackouts this week end , go figure they want to stop sales of new gas powered cars and they can't charge the ones they have now


According to https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/0...-follow-californias-ban-of-new-ice-car-sales/

"While the California law is touted as a ban on all internal combustion engine cars, it allows for up to 20 percent of a manufacturer’s portfolio to consist of plug-in hybrid vehicles. This means ICE vehicles will still be sold in states with this law past 2035, but they will have to feature a hybrid powertrain with a plug-in battery."

It doesn't ban existing ICE vehicles, they can still be operated. (As long as we can get fuel.) We've got 12+ years to figure this out, "DON'T PANIC and CARRY A TOWEL."


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Are you in the right place? 😂

You can also buy an ICE from outside California...this is a restriction on what manufacturers can sell in the state.


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## floydr (Jun 21, 2021)

Does anyone have a link to the actual law? 
later floyd


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Whereas 😂 I don't have time to read it all, I think this is it:



https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/barcu/board/books/2022/082522/prores22-12.pdf


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## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Man made energy crisis. The energy company here in CO turned off people's AC with their "smart thermostats" because it was 90F and they declared an "energy emergency"... It's 90F every day in August here, it's completely normal since forever. Oh and there's never been more solar and wind. The grid should be better than ever.

At least we didn't close down nuclear plants and buy Russian gas, talk about stupid.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

One alligator clip lead can fix that thermostat problem 😂

"French state-owned utility EDF will restart all its nuclear reactors, more than half of which are now closed for maintenance or technical issues, this winter, France's Energy Minister said on Friday."









EDF to restart all its nuclear reactors this winter - minister


French state-owned utility EDF will restart all its nuclear reactors, more than half of which are now closed for maintenance or technical issues, this winter, France's Energy Minister said on Friday.




www.reuters.com


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

remy_martian said:


> Are you in the right place? 😂


Do you mean me? 🙃 I was merely responding to "...go figure they want to stop sales of new gas powered cars and they can't charge the ones they have now". But, I sometimes wonder.


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

floydr said:


> Does anyone have a link to the actual law?
> later floyd


It's not one specific law, California law covers car and truck exhausts in Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations, section 1961 (13 CCR § 1961)
The relevant sections are linked below.





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ww2.arb.ca.gov





The job of fully outlawing gas cars comes in section 1962 (13 CCR § 1962)





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ww2.arb.ca.gov





Jalopnik has a recent article here.





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jalopnik.com


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## Electric Forklift Guy (Dec 13, 2012)

Mack the nife said:


> California govt, is telling people NOT to charge their electric cars ,. There is not enough power to keep all the
> Grid from blackouts this week end , go figure they want to stop sales of new gas powered cars and they can't charge the ones they have now


Less than 1% of the cars in the US are electric ( nearly 2% in California ) so why is this already an issue?

Here's some of the stupid "math games" activists have been playing.

1. Pretending that surplus electric capacity in the Winter will be available in the Summer.

Not only does electric demand dramatically increase in the Summer but the higher temperatures de-rate the capacity of the grid.

In most areas the "excess capacity" drops below 5% during the Summer months.

Putting a hard cap of about 12 million EVs out of the 270 million cars on the road.

2. Pretending the electric grid is 94% efficient.
God , I wish that was true...
Transformer losses alone are 1.5% to 3% for each transformer the power passes through and for most customers thats about 6-9 transformers ( 9%-27%)

And thats not counting I²R losses , coronal discharge, reactive load and hysteresis.


The reason the electric car community needs to stop with the wishful thinking about the American power grid is it we are setting ourselves up to fail in a very public way that will sour the public's perception of electric cars.


Its time for honest numbers.

The EV community needs to start lobbying for more powerplants and a higher capacity grid right now.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Failure is good. That's the only way a myopic & greedy country fixes stuff.

"Fail fast, fail often" on every coin instead of that "In God We Trust" nonsense.


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## CliffordK (Oct 8, 2011)

remy_martian said:


> I guess Oregon has to charge before 4pm as well...don't want to wake the salmon with those hydro turbines by night charging! 😂


The large hydro projects, especially on the Columbia river run 24 hours a day. Bonneville has significantly lower off-peak industrial rates. Whether that transfers to consumers is another question, although at least some utilities have that option. But, if practical, it is much better to start charging after midnight.

The Klamath River had a dam that would only release during daylight hours. Apparently the kayakers would head out there for the release of the water, and then they had to finish the trip before the water was shut off, or walk out. The government is taking out some of the Klamath dams, and that may be one of them.

Lookout Point and Dexter Reservoir are a twinned system that allows Dexter to even out flow changes from Lookout Point. So in part, it may deal with peak power surges and low power demand better.

Solar, of course, is whenever the sun shines. But wind is whenever the wind blows. 

Anyway, there are benefits of doing late night charging if that fits one's system.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The fossil fuels bast*rds are stirring up the hippies to get dams removed. 

Replacing the dams with methane plants


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## hallkbrdz (Jan 2, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> The fossil fuels bast*rds are stirring up the hippies to get dams removed.
> 
> Replacing the dams with methane plants


Do you have proof of that? I rather doubt that as "fossil fuels bast*rds" as you call us probably rather like (I do) hydro power as it is a consistent base load or regularly timed power source compared to crap shoot wind and solar. I really like two-way hydro that reuses the water over and over as it can also be used as a peaker source as needed. Although being mainly in natural gas business, wind and solar have been great for additional sales to peaker plants.


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