# Spreadsheet to Compare Donor Cars



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

DUDE.......You are my new bestest friend. I had to input the variables for my 86 TA because they are different than the newer one listed, but this thing gives me a new idea for how to best design my battery system. 

Thank you for such a wonderful piece of work.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Nice!
quote=EscapeVelocity;212705]Hi Everyone,
I just put together this spreadsheet. So far it contains information on 80 vehicles including their CdA, and curb weight. You give it a battery pack and it will estimate how far each vehicle can travel.

VehicleEfficiencies.xlsx

Have fun!

-EscapeVelocity[/quote


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## RE Farmer (Aug 8, 2009)

EscapeVelocity said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I just put together this spreadsheet. So far it contains information on 80 vehicles including their CdA, and curb weight. You give it a battery pack and it will estimate how far each vehicle can travel.
> 
> VehicleEfficiencies.xlsx
> ...


What's a ".xlsx" file? Tried reading it on a Mac using MS Excel (Office Mac) but it came out garbled.  Do you have it as just an ".xls" Excel file?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

If you are running Mac OS 10.6 then try opening it with the finder. Just select the file and then tap the space bar. Many file times can be viewed directly in the finder. I checked, it works with this .xlsx file.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

RE Farmer said:


> What's a ".xlsx" file? Tried reading it on a Mac using MS Excel (Office Mac) but it came out garbled.  Do you have it as just an ".xls" Excel file?


I have a similar problem as it is from a later MS Office package then my software. I usually use an online converter, like this one to get it back to my MS Office 97 standard.


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## RE Farmer (Aug 8, 2009)

EVfun said:


> If you are running Mac OS 10.6 then try opening it with the finder. Just select the file and then tap the space bar. Many file times can be viewed directly in the finder. I checked, it works with this .xlsx file.


Thanks for the tip. I'm running OS 10.5.8 and the spacebar trick worked. Would be nice to be able to open it as a spreadsheet so I can resort/slice&dice it. Double-clicking opens it in Textedit as a blank document and MS Office opens it as garbage  ...weird.
(Edit) At least I can view it, but it didn't have any BMW 3-series, but my 5-series was much slicker than I thought. Interesting that the new beetle was so draggy when it looks streamlined. As I suspected, its low fineness ratio (too short for its length) causes the airflow to separate before it "gets completely around the car.

BTW - ".xlsx" is Office 2007 exclusive formating - yet another MS goofball manipulation to make one constantly buy/update their bloatware.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

That's awesome but I noticed you're missing a lot of vehicles. My wife's *'01 Civic and my '91 S10*. I know there are lots of pickup conversions due to the ability to carry lots of lead. The Civic would be a challenge likely but I'm considering it. She hates pumping gas and I think she would like an EV and the ability to plug it in when she gets to the office or home.

The Ford Ranger is another popular choice in you're still working on this.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I second the Pickup request. generic since I don't think chevy's mazda's or whatever have all that much difference. well maybe not, my son's ZR2 weighs a thousand pounds more than the ranger.


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## EscapeVelocity (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm updating the spreadsheet to include light pickup trucks. I'll try and find information on the Civic as well. To make it easier on me it would be great if people could submit vehicle requests along with the necessary information.

First find your vehicle on edmunds.com. The web address is usually
edmunds.com / make / model / year /features-specs.html
For instance:
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/s-10/1998/features-specs.html

Select your body style and transmission from the drop-down list. Then you're looking for the curb weight, torque, hp...

For drag coefficient and frontal area, I've had luck at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

Otherwise it's a Google search to try and find the CdA.



Also to the spreadsheet I'm adding motors and battery specs to help estimate your final conversion's horsepower and top-speed. I'm doing work in the garage today, but I'll have it posted tomorrow. Happy New Year!


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## rickeolis (Aug 13, 2009)

Thanks for that! It's seriously cool-
How about an old school VW bug or my first gen RX7?
And maybe a school bus for laughs-

Rick


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

RE Farmer said:


> Thanks for the tip. I'm running OS 10.5.8 and the spacebar trick worked. Would be nice to be able to open it as a spreadsheet so I can resort/slice&dice it. Double-clicking opens it in Textedit as a blank document and MS Office opens it as garbage  ...weird.


I use Open Office and there's no problems to open as use as a spreadsheet. It's free too.
Great Spreadsheet!


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## muns53 (Jan 13, 2011)

Wow! Outstanding spreadsheet! I've been trying to create something like this to compare/contrast different options. Thank you for sharing this!

One project I would love to do is a 100-mile minivan. I figured the stow-n-go compartments on the Town&Country LWB or Grand Caravan would be a good spot to put the additional batteries beyond what doesn't fit under the hood. Then, the seating configuration and interior cargo space is still useful and the batteries are easy to access.

So, using these measurements for a 2007 Chrysler/Dodge model (Limited trim line - ie: heaviest of all models):

Cd = .35
Frontal area = 31.17 ft2
Curb wt = 4,436
Doors = 5
Seating = 7
HP = 215
Torque = 245
Conversion/passenger weight = 2000 lb* **

*figuring a HUGE lithium pack (1000 lb) plus 7 passengers (1000 lb)
** btw, the cargo capacity rating is only 1200 lb, so beefier springs are a must...

It takes a 46KW powerplant to move it along at 75mph. (I was thinking a Warp11 HV would do the job.)

With a 52KWh battery pack (ie: 70 x 200Ah lithiums) and an average speed of 55mph (ie mostly highway driving), it would have a range of 96 miles.

BTW, according to the spreadsheet, that beats a Jeep Wrangler, which showed me it's a lot about aerodynamcis.

So, it's doable, but it ain't going to be cheap! I'm estimating $18K for batteries, $5K for motor/tranny and $6K for controller, charger and odds and ends.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

muns53 said:


> One project I would love to do is a 100-mile minivan.


problem is finding a manual transmission, or dealing with the auto-tranny challanges.


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## muns53 (Jan 13, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> problem is finding a manual transmission, or dealing with the auto-tranny challanges.


Yeah, true enough. It adds cost/complexity to an already expensive/complex conversion. I surfed around and saw there are have been some successful auto conversions. Also, maybe the 11" High-voltage motor could be direct-coupled to the driveshaft? It's capably of 9000 RPM.


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> problem is finding a manual transmission, or dealing with the auto-tranny challanges.


There are a number of minivans that were originally equipped with manual transmissions, including both the first and second generation Chryslers, Ford Aerostar, Toyota Previa, as well as both the Toyota and Mitsubishi mini box vans- which are actually collectible now. 

Swapping a manual into any of these models is pretty straightforward. The transmissions, shifters, clutch pedals and so forth are typically also shared with other models, so while there may not have been a ton of minivans with manuals, its not very difficult to source this stuff salvage with an interchange manual. Its also nice to do a conversion this way, because you can keep the vehicle in service with the ICE/auto until the new, complete drivetrain is ready to install. 

Of these minivans, I've looked the most carefully at the Aerostar, because:

1. They are very durable, with a hybrid welded unibody/frame rail chassis widely known by the cargo truck crowd as toughest of all the small van chassis.
2. They are larger than most minivans, with a stock GVWR up to 5300lbs, that you can actually build to and not have it wear out and warp apart over time.
3. RWD makes for a simpler conversion, and its what you want if you start putting packs in the middle and rear of the chassis.
4. Surprisingly aero, if you block off the grill, which is also pretty easy to do on this model.
5. Still out there, and cheap, too, especially if they don't run right. 

Just a thought...

TomA


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

Great Spread Sheet... 

I corrected the Honda Insight entry.
Not a 4 door , Curb Weight corrected, Torque and HP with IMA corrected.
Also added the distinction between the ( No-AC MT, AC MT, and AC CVT )

new spreadsheet for those who want to add others on their own attached bellow in zip file.


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## EscapeVelocity (Nov 12, 2010)

I have updated the first post with a new version of the spreadsheet. It's now in XLS format, not XLSX, so it should be readable in a wider variety of programs.

I've added a few more entries, like the Chevy S10 and the Ford Ranger. I've also incorporated the information about the Insight provided by IamIan, and the Dodge Caravan provided by muns53.

Also, there are two new tabs. One has lithium battery specifications, and the other one has motor controller specifications.


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## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Hey I have a list of about 270 cars which I got from ecomodder

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

I posted this to the donor car wiki page but I bet this gets a little more attention so I am posting here as well. The spreadsheet (.xls) has reported Cd values and both reported and calculated CdA values. The calculation was done according to the website's formula. It is missing the curb weight, which seems to be important in your calculations, and missing all the extra stuff like transmission, fwd or rwd, doors, seats, torque, hp, but I figure someone could fill in that stuff if they wanted. I will probably add to your list with my list and try to fill in about 20 new entries or so a day, but that might take a while before I am finished if I do it by myself  I also have a much, much crappier battery comparison but I was hoping to add some batteries to yours like a123, kokam, and flux, as well as any others that people can think of. Is there a reason you didn't add these already? It would be great to have a one stop shop for all things EV and this looks like the most complete effort to date. Great job!!  Let me know if I can do anything to help.


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## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Quick update, I found a site that has a lot of information on a lot of cars. Sometimes the Cd is listed, sometimes not. Most of the site is in metric but the conversion pops up for some stuff. Take a look. Also posting for personal reference later 

http://www.carinf.com/en.html

Also, here is my semi-updated chart. I still have a lot of work to do but anybody who wants to jump in and help is welcome. To make the colors work while the data was not finished, I just used 3000 for a curb weight and 22 for the area until exact numbers can be looked up. I hope some people will fill in a few for me


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## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Last update I swear, 3 posts in a row I look obsessed  I added some batteries to the spreadsheet, cut out the duplicates and added a little bit more info to the cars. Some of the batteries like headway and calb were hard to nail down specific specs because depending on the website, the specs changed. If anybody has a definitive spec sheet that would be nice. Also, the spec sheets from kokam state 800 discharges, but their website mentions 2000, so who knows. Probably can add k2 and a123, but I was having problems locating those as well. Finally, prices are all over the place, so I left those out, and that is assuming I could find them. Have a good night, hopefully somebody who knows something about batteries can fix all of my mistakes


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

docean24 said:


> Last update I swear, 3 posts in a row I look obsessed  I added some batteries to the spreadsheet, cut out the duplicates and added a little bit more info to the cars. Some of the batteries like headway and calb were hard to nail down specific specs because depending on the website, the specs changed. If anybody has a definitive spec sheet that would be nice. Also, the spec sheets from kokam state 800 discharges, but their website mentions 2000, so who knows. Probably can add k2 and a123, but I was having problems locating those as well. Finally, prices are all over the place, so I left those out, and that is assuming I could find them. Have a good night, hopefully somebody who knows something about batteries can fix all of my mistakes


You have done a great job on the updates and by adding batteries and controllers! Thanks


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## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

I have done some more work with the spreadsheet, mostly on calculations and battery additions. Instead of specifying your battery pack size in kWh, you now specify your desired range. You also specify your pack minimum and maximum voltage range. Then you use the Position column to put your favorite car at the top of the list, and the spreadsheet calculates how much that sized pack will cost. You can view all the possibilities on the "Batt Calculations" sheet. I also wanted it to display the name of the cell which matches this lowest price between your voltage range, but I can't seem to make it work properly. If someone with some Excel programming skills could help out that would be great.  You should be able to figure out what it should do but is not doing pretty easily but if not feel free to ask. If nobody fixes it I might have to give it another go, but I spent about 4 hours on it last night with no luck  Hope this helps


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## EscapeVelocity (Nov 12, 2010)

You've taken my spreadsheet to the next level, docean24. We all really appreciate it.

There are some duplicates that have different figures though. For instance, there are two 2009 Toyota Corollas, but they have different frontal areas and different weights. Did the data get jumbled while sorting?


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## docean24 (May 26, 2011)

Ah yes looks like I forgot some, lots of corollas  I fixed those but I will describe the process just in case I missed any more. If there are two entries, it means one was your original and one was mine. I would take the most pessimistic area and CdA and use those in your original vehicle description. Then i would delete my row. Deleting the row is important (right click) because it keeps all the cells touching. The formulas for frontal area and CdA are below:

Frontal Area formula = Height * Width * .84 
(Height and Width in feet) 

Frontal Area formula = (Height/12) * (Width/12) * .84 
(Height and Width in inches) 

CdA formula = Cd * Frontal Area 

Like it says in the spreadsheet, 3000 lb curb weight is an estimate until the real value is looked up, as is 22.2 for frontal area. I attached the newest version. How did you do the colored gradient thing, that is really cool


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

I haven't finished looking at docean24's new sheet... looks nice ... thanks.

In the mean time ... here is a variation of the older one.

Changes include:


Slope ( if you want to estimate how going up or down a hill will effect things )
Changes to air density based on entered values of Air Temperature, Air Pressure, Relative Humidity.
Break out for separate parts of the kw needed to maintain speed:
Rolling Resistance ( Changes with slope )
Aerodynamics ( Changes with changes to Air Density )
Gravity ( Changes with Slope )


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I am bumping this to the top because it was a lot of work and is an amazing resource.

Great Job!


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

Thanks Bowser, I was looking for and had it marked, but was too lazy to use the search function 

Dawid


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