# 1981 Camaro Dragster Project - Official Tread - All Info!



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

sounds good,
what batteries did you decide on? 
and why is the voltage so low? the dragsters i've read about run higher voltage...and you do have zilla 2k, so is there a reason for the 240 volts?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

"The *Lithiumaniacs EV Drag Racing Team* are building a street legal 300ZX that will smoke "White Zombies" record. It also has dual motors and lithium batteries. No details yet. We will run on the East Coast Tracks in 2011. "

Which car are you planning to do the above with? The 300zx or the camero?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have given the 300ZX to another Lithiumaniacs team member, he will finish that car. My priority is finishing the Camaro. We currently have 4 cars involved with team Lithiumaniacs, two I own, the remainder is owned by other members. 



DIYguy said:


> "The *Lithiumaniacs EV Drag Racing Team* are building a street legal 300ZX that will smoke "White Zombies" record. It also has dual motors and lithium batteries. No details yet. We will run on the East Coast Tracks in 2011. "
> 
> Which car are you planning to do the above with? The 300zx or the camero?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have started cutting the lexan for the battery boxes. Anyone know a good way to seam the joints/edges together? Glues or heat maybe? I will due some DD on lexan but any tips will be helpful. Pictures coming soon.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

A quick search and I have found:

"The material chosen for the battery connection box housing was Lexan EXL9330 resin, a copolymer of PC and siloxane. This material combines the best of PC and silicone chemistry to produce a thermoplastic resin with exceptional low-temperature toughness to -60 C, excellent and long-term weatherability, excellent dimensional stability, a CTI value of two required by the customer, and UL94 5VA flame retardancy at three mm walls."




LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have started cutting the lexan for the battery boxes. Anyone know a good way to seam the joints/edges together? Glues or heat maybe? I will due some DD on lexan but any tips will be helpful. Pictures coming soon.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Lexan Polycarbonate Glue IPS40-PT
*Item ID:* IPS40-PT 
Weld-On #40 Pint Kit (A+B) 


SUBSTRATE RECOMMENDATIONS
*WELD-ON 40* is especially formulated to bond extruded, cast, and cross linked acrylic sheets. It will also bond
acrylic to polyester, butyrate, polycarbonate, PVC and other materials.
BONDING RECOMMENDATIONS
WELD-ON 40 is recommended for bonding of acrylic plastics especially where good clarity retention is required.
It is versatile having many applications in the sign industry and in the manufacturing and repair of aquariums,
museum quality cases and other plastics fabrication industries.
GENERAL DESCRIPTION
WELD-ON 40 is a 2-component, clear, medium syrupy, reactive acrylic cement. It polymerizes at room
temperature, forming high strength joints within a few hours. The cemented joint retains high clarity, good
strength and resistance to the effects of weathering and aging. In cases where a lower viscosity is desired,
WELD-ON 3061 may be used as a reactive diluent. To maintain similar curing properties it is not recommended
to dilute more than 10% to the undiluted WELD-ON 40, Component “A”. Meets MIL SPEC. A-8576 Type III.
BOND STRENGTH DATA
The following bond strength data reflects average tensile strengths of cemented joints at a 0.2”/min. straining
rate. The materials tested were butt joints of sq. in. bond area. (Bond strength data indicating elevated
temperatures are post cures at the given temperature. Initial cure is at room temperature for 24 hours in all
cases.)
SUBSTRATE MATERIAL TIME TEMP. STRENGTH
Acrylic 24 HRS R.T. 2600 PSI
1 WEEK R.T. 4000
24 HRS 120ºF 4500
1 WEEK 120ºF 5700
24 HRS 150ºF 5900
1 WEEK 150ºF 7000
ADHESIVE PROPERTIES AND CHARACTERISTICS
COLOR: Clear 80% STRENGTH: 72 hours
VISCOSITY: 2900 cps SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 1.03 ± .040
REACTIVITY: 35 to 40 minutes COVERAGE: 10mil: 30sq.ft/Pint 240sq. ft/Gallon
WORKING TIME: 20 minutes 20mil: 15sq.ft/Pint 120sq. ft/Gallon
FIXTURE TIME: 2 hours
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
Surface Preparation: Surfaces to be joined should be clean and fit without forcing. It should not be necessary to
flex either piece more than a few thousandths of an inch to achieve complete contact. Surfaces should be
sanded with 240 to 400 grit sandpaper before bonding.
Mixing: Before mixing, bring both Components (A & B) to room temperature. Per 100cc or grams of Comp. “A”,
add 5cc or 5 grams of Comp. “B”. Stir until completely mixed. If base cement is above 85ºF, pre-cool to 75ºF
before mixing.
Pot Life: When mixed, pot life at 75ºF is approximately 20 minutes. Note: shorter pot life may result where larger
masses are used or when temperature is above 75ºF.
Preliminary Annealing: To prevent crazing during bonding, acrylics should be annealed following machining
and forming. (Refer to acrylic sheet manufacturer's published Annealing Schedules.)
Making The Joint: Apply cement with suitable applicator to one or both surfaces and assemble immediately. If
cellophane masking tapes are used, avoid contact of cement with adhesive side of tape. Apply just enough
pressure to remove air bubbles. Do not squeeze parts so hard as to force cement out of joint, a dry joint could
result. If possible, cover joint with cellophane to prevent inhibition of cure by air.

Properties of the Bond: The tack free time for WELD-ON 40 when applied at 20mil thickness is about 7-8
minutes and the cure time is about 20 minutes. The film will become hard in 45-60 minutes. Usually joints are
hard enough for handling in about 4 hours at 70ºF. Machining may be done after 24 hours.

http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Lexan_Polycarbonate_Glue/PLEXIGLASS-GLUE-ADHESIVE-IPS40-PT


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I agree with everyone asking why the voltage is so low, if your pockets are as deep as they are why not max out the battery. That is your HP comes from right there, it's not your motors, it's not your zilla, it's just your batteries, and the pack you're building is smaller that what I'm putting in my daily driver porsche (looks like you are using P cells where I will be using S but still!!) From the way I see it since you have LV motors why not try and up the pack voltage enough that you don't have to switch to parallel?? At minimum you save the switching time for the contactors, and one of the reasons for the series/parallel switching was to make up for lead acid batteries voltage sag. Other than the fact I believe your pack is too small for a 1600-2000A peak reliably, your headways shouldn't sag the way LA does. From what I understand about the Zilla HV it's rated 300v nominal for a LA pack, meaning it should be just fine at 340-350v charged.

Good luck.




LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> A few have asked me privately why our pack is only 240V when some racers have packs over 350V. Well, my calculations on battery pack voltage are based on our set-up. The Netgain Warp 11" motors operate on voltage 170V to 200V, we went up to 240V for the battery sag. Our Zilla 2K is using the Hairball to create a series to parallel switch during racing. We are counting on the HUGE amounts of torque to launch the car from the line (2000amps two 11" motors) . Afterwards the controller will pump 200V to each motor for additional HP.
> 
> We have many ways to set-up this car, we will try this as our first set-up. We can always modify later if our results are lacking.
> 
> Other racers use HV motors, we are not. The 1/4 mile is a short distance we are counting on torque with our HUGE rear slicks to give us the edge off the line. The car will be very very light with fiberglass nose, doors, trunk lid, and lexan windows. I sure hope the wheelie bars work, I am the driver!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay, so what your recommending is wire the Zilla2K for parallel only, and up my battery pack to send more volts to the motors and rely on HP to win a 1/4 mile race? Hmmmmn. I have one question, I know my ZillaHV will operate over 300V, but my motors can only operate on 170v to 200v, so how will a larger pack help if I can only use 200v to the motors? 

I am always open to different ideas and suggestions. 



rwaudio said:


> I agree with everyone asking why the voltage is so low, if your pockets are as deep as they are why not max out the battery. That is your HP comes from right there, it's not your motors, it's not your zilla, it's just your batteries, and the pack you're building is smaller that what I'm putting in my daily driver porsche (looks like you are using P cells where I will be using S but still!!) From the way I see it since you have LV motors why not try and up the pack voltage enough that you don't have to switch to parallel?? At minimum you save the switching time for the contactors, and one of the reasons for the series/parallel switching was to make up for lead acid batteries voltage sag. Other than the fact I believe your pack is too small for a 1600-2000A peak reliably, your headways shouldn't sag the way LA does. From what I understand about the Zilla HV it's rated 300v nominal for a LA pack, meaning it should be just fine at 340-350v charged.
> 
> Good luck.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*Start of the battery packs.*

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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Okay, so what your recommending is wire the Zilla2K for parallel only, and up my battery pack to send more volts to the motors and rely on HP to win a 1/4 mile race? Hmmmmn. I have one question, I know my ZillaHV will operate over 300V, but my motors can only operate on 170v to 200v, so how will a larger pack help if I can only use 200v to the motors?
> 
> I am always open to different ideas and suggestions.


I would think that wired in series only and max out the pack voltage would get you down the quarter the fastest. Maximum volts times maximum amps equals maximum horsepower. The motors are just your power converters, the goal should be to feed them as many watts as possible. The White Zombie runs its Impulse 9 motors in series only with the new (stiff) Lithium pack.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Okay, so what your recommending is wire the Zilla2K for parallel only, and up my battery pack to send more volts to the motors and rely on HP to win a 1/4 mile race? Hmmmmn. I have one question, I know my ZillaHV will operate over 300V, but my motors can only operate on 170v to 200v, so how will a larger pack help if I can only use 200v to the motors?
> 
> I am always open to different ideas and suggestions.


Actually I'm suggesting putting the motors in series and up your pack voltage so that they will see as close to 170 EACH @ 2000A as possible which will depend on your voltage sag, however if your batteries can do it you will have lots of power. A Zilla -EHV would be a bit better because you could up the pack voltage a bit more to compensate for the sag.

Just compare some numbers...
Each motor @ 150V and a possible 2000A (300kw) This is what White Zombie is doing with Impulse 9's
OR
Each motor @ 170-200V and a possible 1000A (200kw) Your plan.

I don't know what the zilla can really put out as motor voltage gets up there but I'm sure there are some log files out there, probably already in abundance in Crodrivers thread.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Ahhhh! I gotcha now. Wire them in series (staying at 2000amps each motor) and up the pack to compensate pushing the max voltage to each motor. I do like that configuration, but my max voltage will be most likely 150V per motor. Am I figuring this correctly?

Adding more strings to our front pack is very easy, we have mucho room!  I can redesign our front box.



rwaudio said:


> Actually I'm suggesting putting the motors in series and up your pack voltage so that they will see as close to 170 EACH @ 2000A as possible which will depend on your voltage sag, however if your batteries can do it you will have lots of power. A Zilla -EHV would be a bit better because you could up the pack voltage a bit more to compensate for the sag.
> 
> Just compare some numbers...
> Each motor @ 150V and a possible 2000A (300kw) This is what White Zombie is doing with Impulse 9's
> ...


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Ahhhh! I gotcha now. Wire them in series (staying at 2000amps each motor) and up the pack to compensate pushing the max voltage to each motor. I do like that configuration, but my max voltage will be most likely 150V per motor. Am I figuring this correctly?
> 
> Adding more strings to our front pack is very easy, we have mucho room!  I can redesign our front box.


I'm glad we're on the same page now 
The key is keeping the voltage up high enough to get enough RPM out of the motors so you don't plateau somewhere near 3/4 track, you need it to keep pulling.
So you need to stay under the limits of the controller but keep your voltage under load as high as possible to get the RPM high enough, or find the right gear ratio to get the most out of the launch and the top end.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

New front battery box design!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Battery Box Configurations and Amounts:

Front box - 416 cells
Rear center box - 240 cells
Rear right box - 112 cells
Rear left box - 112 cells
_____________________

Total of 880 cells. 

I must figure the weight now.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm going to post this in both threads:

Disclaimer - *I am not attacking you!* Anything I say is constructive criticism, and the only reason I am even replying is I would really like to see you have some measure of success.

You really should consider just stopping for a minute. Before you spend more, cut more, build more, you really should try to get your head aroundthe concept of drag racing with an electric powertrain. You're thinking almost entirely in terms of ICE technology and procedures - many of them are pretty much opposite with electric.


Bigger electric motors don't necessarily mean more power, or stronger.
I like the idea of siamese 11s but until you reach the point of melting a pair of 9s, they're probably costing you more than you're getting from them. Two cars, one with 9s, one with 11s, otherwise identical, the smaller motored car is probably going to fo faster - unless it reaches the point of zorching.
Theoretically, the biggest advantage of your 11s is more copper and more steel - you need to be focused on taking advantage of that or they will be nothing more than a weight penalty and bragging rights.
The best way I know to take advantage of them is to have so much power - _i.e._ a MONSTER battery pack - combined with enough chassis to push them to the ragged edge in a matter of seconds.
Personally, I think two Warp 11s are going to laugh at 2000 amps for a few seconds. (You only pull max amps long enough to get the car off the line and up to a certain velocity) You have the chassis and rear tire to push them, but your current pack won't have the power to test that limit.
You're pushing that pack to the ragged edge. One way or another, I can't see how it won't let you down. I think you should have a pack that can handle 2500-3000 amps within its "safe" limits. When I built my A123 packs on paper, I never counted on pushing the cells more than 50c, even though they are supposedly good for up to 60c. Also, the numbers I had at 50c were beyond what I think my chassis could get to the ground effectively, so it would probably be pulling more like 40c. Likewise, my voltage estimates were way over what I needed, to account for sag and for making multiple passes back-to-back (I am also planning to autocross).
I agree 100% with the guys about running the whole race in series. If you can push that Z2K-HV to 350 volts that would give you enough to stay near your motor's rated max voltage. Eventually you need an EHV version to have maybe a couple hundred volts ready for each motor. Remember you set the limits going to the motors with the controller, not the pack. Maybe Otmar will talk to you about how much voltage you can actually get away with in the pack with your controller. I wonder if he would upgrade it for you???
Again, this was all meant to be constructive criticism. If you see it any other way, but disregard the post and I'll shut up.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> New front battery box design!


Aren't you putting the cart before the horse - building battery boxes before you even have batteries in hand?

Keith


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm thinking he should do series parallel switching and advance his motors for the higher voltage. I don't think the RPM's will get high enough in the 1/4 to cause problems.

How many volts does WZ run? What size motors are they? What is their rated voltage? Sure they blow motors, but that is part of racing.

I agree though, maybe up the pack current ability and it'l help save the voltage from sagging. You add more parallel and they won't sag as much. 


Now, S/P switching.

Lets say you have a 300V pack. If you do series first, the current will go to both motors and from a stop you'll get max amps in each motor. Once the RPM's increase until the 100% point, you'll get 150V per motor and thats it. The current starts to drop, and so does power.

Then you parallel switch. The controller is now supplying half of the amps to each motor (which is falling as you are increasing RPM), but now you can run out the motors to a higher voltage and RPM.

WZ has been doing this for year, as well as several other race cars. Its like a transmission. You want both full amps and full voltage, why not do BOTH and s/p switch?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you all!

Travis, knowing you are an expert in battery management I think I will stick with your suggestion. I will up the pack though. You are also very good friends with most of the NEDRA racers so you know what it takes to get a car down the track.

I do appreciate the other posts and recommendations, and hope we can continue this thread with more ideas for set-ups and racing. 



frodus said:


> I'm thinking he should do series parallel switching and advance his motors for the higher voltage. I don't think the RPM's will get high enough in the 1/4 to cause problems.
> 
> How many volts does WZ run? What size motors are they? What is their rated voltage? Sure they blow motors, but that is part of racing.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Not really, I know what I am ordering and what size each cell is, so building my battery boxes is easy. 



kek_63 said:


> Aren't you putting the cart before the horse - building battery boxes before you even have batteries in hand?
> 
> Keith


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Now that White Zombie has a super stiff LiPo pack, John keeps the motors in series the whole time.

I would humbly suggest making the batteries boxes as big as the car allows. That gives options to add more cells in the future, more room for BMS or heaters, more room for cooling if needed, etc. That would also give more options for moving cells fore or aft to fine tune weight balance.


frodus said:


> I'm thinking he should do series parallel switching and advance his motors for the higher voltage. ...
> WZ has been doing this for year, as well as several other race cars. Its like a transmission. You want both full amps and full voltage, why not do BOTH and s/p switch?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Now that White Zombie has a super stiff LiPo pack, John keeps the motors in series the whole time...


I'd go as far as to say the switch is kind of a band-aid for not having enough battery to get the job done. I see WZ's recent performance as proof of this. The series/parallel switch trick covered him when he had lead, and until he could get enough battery to do the job - after that it wasn't needed. It compensated for voltage sag, allowing the motors to spin faster than the sagging pack could take them in series configuration.

Ron's goal is to build a state-of-the-art drag car, so why use the band-aid? Go straight for the juggler with a stiff enough pack to push that Camaro through the traps in series.

I'm not downing the switch thing. I think it's an awesome tool that allows people to run faster for less money. You can probably count the racers on one or two hands that can afford to build a pack that will push from start to finish. For the rest, s/p switching is great.

I'm working under the assumption that this is going to be a balls-to-the-wall drag car. The only way to that goal has been, is, and will be - batteries!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay, I get your point batteries batteries batteries. I have been told today by a good friend of Wayland that he is still using the series to parallel switch? Does JW post somewhere that he is using series only? My battery guy is very close to him? 



toddshotrods said:


> I'd go as far as to say the switch is kind of a band-aid for not having enough battery to get the job done. I see WZ's recent performance as proof of this. The series/parallel switch trick covered him when he had lead, and until he could get enough battery to do the job - after that it wasn't needed. It compensated for voltage sag, allowing the motors to spin faster than the sagging pack could take them in series configuration.
> 
> Ron's goal is to build a state-of-the-art drag car, so why use the band-aid? Go straight for the juggler with a stiff enough pack to push that Camaro through the traps in series.
> 
> ...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Okay, I get your point batteries batteries batteries. I have been told today by a good friend of Wayland that he is still using the series to parallel switch? Does JW post somewhere that he is using series only? My battery guy is very close to him?


Ask him... , he'll probably tell u. John is a proponent of sharing stuff and opening his hood. He'll tell you pretty much everything... he wants to advance the sport this way...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Wow, my guy was wrong???? I have just found this on Wayland's Words:

"The Zombie is rock’n pretty hard in straight series mode, so I have no plans to go back to the series/parallel shift for now…in fact, after Otmar and I have had our weekend session, I will be simplifying-rewiring the motor loop circuits removing the series/parallel contactors completely."

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/blog/



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Okay, I get your point batteries batteries batteries. I have been told today by a good friend of Wayland that he is still using the series to parallel switch? Does JW post somewhere that he is using series only? My battery guy is very close to him?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Just before you got into with them on the NEDRA Yahoo Group that was discussed in detail. He gave a lot of detail about the whole setup. I'm not in that Group anymore, so I can't go back and find it.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay. I will try and find it on the NEDRA Yahoo board. I can't believe my guy which is connected to WZ did not know of this change??? 



toddshotrods said:


> Just before you got into with them on the NEDRA Yahoo Group that was discussed in detail. He gave a lot of detail about the whole setup. I'm not in that Group anymore, so I can't go back and find it.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, question answered! 

Re: [NEDRA] Re: DC Plasma Update Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:59 am 

 Show Message Option 
View Source
Use Fixed Width Font
Unwrap Lines

*John Wayland <[email protected]> *
evdragracer 
 Offline 
 Send Email 



Hello Gary and All,

[email protected] wrote: Â Hi John and all,

Was just wondering, are u still using the S/P switch now that u have the stiff lipo?

Thanks 
Gary
​No. Straight series now. This was extensively covered here on the list...did you miss it? You can review some of it at my web site's 'Wayland's Words', too.

See Ya...John Wayland


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ya... that would be me. I asked him 4 u.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you! 



DIYguy said:


> ya... that would be me. I asked him 4 u.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Any progress on the actual car? I would like to see the stance.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, front control arms replaced with a new tube set-up. 8" cut of the front body cube. Front frame cut and welded on support for one piece nose. Still waiting for nose, doors and trunk lid. Will be installing the steering column and pedals right after Christmas. Removing rear axles replacing the S/T's and changing the ring and pinion. Batteries should arrive in about 1 week, I paid for air freight from China to CT. Already started rear battery boxes, will wait on front box after deciding on final pack size. Motors will be shipped out Jan 7th (hopefully). Pictures soon!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I removed picture, new battery pack design.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

After hiring a BMS specialists. I am told this pack design will change. The configuration needs "tweeking". Also we are lowering the voltage to match the Zilla 2K HV. The AH will stay the same, but lose some series. We have figured with the Turnigy packs I could get 5000amps. My BMS pro says I should use two Zilla 2K's, anyone have a spare? 

I will post pictures soon, the deliveries of packs has started! 

One thing I learned in speaking with the BMS pro is wire sizes for different packs and configurations. Some believe you need a very large wire, but for 10 seconds of racing you can use a "smaller" wire size to meet your needs. The pro prefers warm smaller wires. There is a method for calculating heat and time using smaller wires. I am learning something new everday! 



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> So it looks like this will be my pack design, I am told this type of design is hard to match a BMS system to? I have now contacted 5 companies to see if they can build me a safe BMS system.
> I have other options for balancing and charging, but BMS system is my first choice. Remember these batteries are only used for a few minutes at most between charging.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

thats the second one
http://www.evtradinpost.com/index.p...ory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=30


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you! I am on it. 



efan said:


> thats the second one
> http://www.evtradinpost.com/index.p...ory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=30


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

New Zilla 2k Controller arrived!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Seems this Hairball has many more options installed!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Battery pack configuration has started, all the components are being assembled. The pack should be complete in time for dyno testing in 2 weeks.

I want to thank whoever tried to throw a "monkey wrench" in my relationship with a few battery builders, it did not work. Some are just evil and would love to hurt anothers dream.

Anyways, I will keep this site informed from time to time.

GLTA!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Building the battery box with Lexan 220. The packs will be separated with G10 fiberglass. The box will be air cooled, most likely vacuum or blown.

Trying to use one box 16" tall, 35" long, and 20" wide.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*The start of the center battery box.*


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have learned oodles of information in tha past two weeks on how to wire these packs. The series and parallel power wires are very easy to understand and wire. The complex part of the build is wiring in the BMS system. The 5S series packs each have a balance wire plug JST-XH, each plug in the parallel string must be combined into one plug to connect to the "special" balance board. Here is an example:










I will need cell board for each cell in parallel (in the balancing wire circuit). This is the basics on a balance 5S plug:

Red wire (Pos) on cell 1
Blue wire (Neg) connecting cell 1 to 2
White wire (Pos) connecting cell 2 to 3
Yellow wire (Neg) connecting 3 to 4
Green wire (Pos) connecting 4 to 5
Black wire (Neg) on cell 5

I know this custom BMS system works with a Elithion BMS, not sure of the other companies.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

My first reaction on seeing that box is that it's too flimsy. Shouldn't "flat packs" like this be restrained to resist swelling? My understanding is that, during charging, a phase change causes the various layers to be pushed apart slightly. Ideally the box would be rigid, but maybe you're going to add external stiffening?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The box is thicker than it looks, the picture is deceiving. When completed the box will also be support with thin steel edges. The steel will bolt directing into the lexan, the inner screw ends will be covered with vinyl tape. The packs will be placed in series East to West and will be separated by a fiberglass sheet. The packs will be tight with the 'flat' section of the pouch cell touching each fiberglass sheet. The spacing 'for cooling' will be located between the packs North to South. On the top will be holes for cooling and possible vacuum sucking to remove heat, this part has not been decided yet.

The pack will sit in a steel cradle between the rear frame. It will be easy to remove. More pictures coming. 



MalcolmB said:


> My first reaction on seeing that box is that it's too flimsy. Shouldn't "flat packs" like this be restrained to resist swelling? My understanding is that, during charging, a phase change causes the various layers to be pushed apart slightly. Ideally the box would be rigid, but maybe you're going to add external stiffening?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd think with the power potential of these packs an aluminum enclosure would be safer.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The box is thicker than it looks, the picture is deceiving. When completed the box will also be support with thin steel edges. The steel will bolt directing into the lexan, the inner screw ends will be covered with vinyl tape. The packs will be placed in series East to West and will be separated by a fiberglass sheet. The packs will be tight with the 'flat' section of the pouch cell touching each fiberglass sheet. The spacing 'for cooling' will be located between the packs North to South. On the top will be holes for cooling and possible vacuum sucking to remove heat, this part has not been decided yet.
> 
> The pack will sit in a steel cradle between the rear frame. It will be easy to remove. More pictures coming.


If you are bolting the lexan to pieces of angle, I would suggest that you countersink the screw heads below flush in the lexan. Screw ends covered with tape inside the box is asking for trouble IMHO.

Keith


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


>


Hard to tell from the pictures, but I think you may need longer wires, doesn't each branch of the pigtail connect to each battery pack? I imagine the branches would need to span the width of your battery box.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, this picture is an example of what I am wiring, this is not my plug. I will start connecting all the Franken wires after the boxes are built, still waiting for the plugs and wire. 



etischer said:


> Hard to tell from the pictures, but I think you may need longer wires, doesn't each branch of the pigtail connect to each battery pack? I imagine the branches would need to span the width of your battery box.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, that is my second step in the building process. The first 6" of the box will be reinforced with thin sheet metal plating 'lower box'. All the joint will be reinforced with sheet metal bolted to the lexan. The finished box also sits in a steel cradle very tight. 



JRP3 said:


> I'd think with the power potential of these packs an aluminum enclosure would be safer.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have have this alot of thought, I do not want to get zapped!

All of the internal nuts will not touch any cell pack (and the packs do not move), for extra security I am covering the internal nuts with thick rubber electrical tape. This tape is very durable and sticky, I will use many layers of protection. The outside section of the bolts are flat like a washer. 

I know some have screwed the lexan boxes at the seams with very little screws, I do not trust the strength of that method with a large box. 



kek_63 said:


> If you are bolting the lexan to pieces of angle, I would suggest that you countersink the screw heads below flush in the lexan. Screw ends covered with tape inside the box is asking for trouble IMHO.
> 
> Keith


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Ron that is going to be an amazing car. Those are pretty boxes, but I'm nervous about safety.

I believe you are planning to put some boxes in the driver's compartment of the car, so safety is even more important for that case.

Metal has the properties you want. It is much more fire resistant. Metal can bend and still be nearly as strong. Once plastic has cracked, it has very little strength left. You'll get a mismatch of material properties at the plastic/car metal interface. If the floor plan rumples a bit the plastic breaks and has no strength left. Note these problems are not fixed by making the plastic thicker! Using the same metal as the floor pan would have the box bending with the floor pan in a severe wreck.

NEDRA specs recommends 8g stength for the battery boxes. http://www.nedra.com/rulebook.html#8_1 . I would recommend building a box, attaching it to a strong board, and loading it with 8 times or more the weight of your lithium batteries. Shake it sideways and upside down.

I would recommend doing welded metal battery boxes, welded into the car. Put on securely attached metal lids. For static display, you can put on clear plastic lids.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I mostly agree with David, though I think properly bolted into the vehicle would be good enough and allow removal and modification.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

ECEDRA also requires 8g lateral


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks for the help. Let me explain more on what and where of the battery boxes. 

The boxes are being first built with lexan (as an inner liner) then being covered with sheet metal. Then each box is placed into a steel cradle to support all side and bottom. This design passes all NHRA specs, and ECEDRA. 

The battery boxes are being placed in the rear of the car in the trunk compartment, between the frame rails. The cradle is made of angle iron and flat stock welded. This car can flip five times and that battery box would not move.



DavidDymaxion said:


> Ron that is going to be an amazing car. Those are pretty boxes, but I'm nervous about safety.
> 
> I believe you are planning to put some boxes in the driver's compartment of the car, so safety is even more important for that case.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Ron: That's good to hear. I would enjoy seeing pictures of the whole assembly.

JRP3: I agree bolt in is often good enough (my gasser's roll bar is bolted in and that conforms with the rules I race under). On the flip side, I believe welding is a better solution for a car this powerful.


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Thanks for the help. Let me explain more on what and where of the battery boxes.
> 
> The boxes are being first built with lexan (as an inner liner) then being covered with sheet metal. Then each box is placed into a steel cradle to support all side and bottom. This design passes all NHRA specs, and ECEDRA.
> 
> The battery boxes are being placed in the rear of the car in the trunk compartment, between the frame rails. The cradle is made of angle iron and flat stock welded. This car can flip five times and that battery box would not move.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Does the "battery hold-down system" also need to meet the 8g rating? I would assume that it does.

Just wondering if double-sided tape = 8g 

I still don't think that bandaids over bolts are worth the risk,
Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The battery 'hold-down system' is also bolted after installed into the cradle. The 'bandaids' are not even needed, each pack sits over 2" away from any side or corner, the packs are 'positioned' with the double sided tape, but also have a hollow squares 'with holes' between the packs and the sides. These 'squares' are made of thin lexan, they are an added feature I am installing to guarantee each pack cannot move. 

I will show pictures when completed. 



kek_63 said:


> Does the "battery hold-down system" also need to meet the 8g rating? I would assume that it does.
> 
> Just wondering if double-sided tape = 8g
> 
> ...


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Ron that is going to be an amazing car. Those are pretty boxes, but I'm nervous about safety.
> 
> I believe you are planning to put some boxes in the driver's compartment of the car, so safety is even more important for that case.
> 
> ...


 In my testing 1/4" lexan , I could bend it in vise and fold it back on it's self in the vise and it would not crack just deform . it also doesn't crack when shot . great looking project btw.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Good to know, thanks for the education. Is it still pliable at low temperatures?


aeroscott said:


> In my testing 1/4" lexan , I could bend it in vise and fold it back on it's self in the vise and it would not crack just deform . it also doesn't crack when shot . great looking project btw.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

As you all know I change plans when feel needed. After feeling the weight of the fiberglass boards and the pack with a few packs installed, I have decided to take some of your recommendations and build a welded 3/4 lower box for strength. I will not be screwing into the box with any nuts or bolts. The lexan box will fit nice and tight into my steel 3/4 box, I will only use silicon when installing the two boxes into one.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Cutting the lexan was easy, but that G10 is some nasty stuff! If you have the correct blade you can cut anything, but that G10 left a nasty smell and plenty of powder.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*WARNING!* To all future builders.

My pack is designed for ten seconds or less of racing thats it! Anything over that will bring the small wires to a sizzle.

This pack is a 'special' designed experimental pack. It will produce over 4000amps if needed!

The next pack will consist of larger wires and tabs for road racing, etc.....


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Good to know, thanks for the education. Is it still pliable at low temperatures?


 don't know about temp or age for strength . It oxidises in the sun , but can be polished to look new .


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

I know that the lexan windows in my CNCs deteriorate with age - but at least some of that can be attributed to the coolant spray.

Keith


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Hmm, 4000 amps though 7 paralleled packs? That is 570 amps though each 10 awg wire, nearly 20x the current allowed by the national fire protection agency. 

How did you determine that this would be safe for 10 seconds? 

The battery is only rated 250A (burst), 125A continuous.





LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> *WARNING!* To all future builders.
> 
> My pack is designed for ten seconds or less of racing thats it! Anything over that will bring the small wires to a sizzle.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We didn't I am just guessing! LOL 

The smaller packs are 10awg wire, once paralled they feed into larger wire. We have it covered. 



etischer said:


> Hmm, 4000 amps though 7 paralleled packs? That is 570 amps though each 10 awg wire, nearly 20x the current allowed by the national fire protection agency.
> 
> How did you determine that this would be safe for 10 seconds?
> 
> The battery is only rated 250A (burst), 125A continuous.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Framing was built to support moving the box into the car's frame rail supports. Once installed into the Camaro it will sit in thick angle iron brackets. I did not trust the lexan boxes to hold without steel framing. I am now satisfied and will finish building the pack.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I'm glad to see things are progressing, I'm sure your 10awg will be just fine for short bursts, look at the actual conductor size in a fuse, pretty tiny for the current we put through them. I'm sure your wires will get warm, lets hope they don't burn/melt/vaporize.

So don't let your car burn or Jack R. will be calling it a BMS fire


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> *WARNING!* To all future builders.
> 
> My pack is designed for ten seconds or less of racing thats it! Anything over that will bring the small wires to a sizzle.
> 
> ...


So you intend to build a road race car with these same batteries? That should be interesting. Can't wait for that thread


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*57.3V 70AH , Growing everyday! *


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, in the near future 'pre-built' modular parallel Lipo Packs will be introduced. I would say somewhere in the size of 25ah to 50ah packs. same C-ratings. The wires and tabs will be larger for smaller sized packs. 

The future is ours, you must grab it with two hands and make your own destiny!



rochesterricer said:


> So you intend to build a road race car with these same batteries? That should be interesting. Can't wait for that thread


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Hello all!

I have been very busy planning and building. The car's suspension and body will be completed very soon, we are taking pictures of each part installed. The front frame has been chopped and is much lighter than original. New front suspension, new rear shocks, gears, axles, lexan, etc....

Motors bolting up this week with custom driveshaft. The installation on batteries, controllers and wiring will be last (end of month). I received the balance of my batteries yesterday. Wild paint with new team name coming very soon!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Recent testing and new designs have been done to the battery pack. We are now not installing a BMS system, we are installing cell balancers that will connect during charging only. We have also decided to install busbars.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

During charging only, these little babies will be installed to balance each parallel string. 









The *Xtrema Lithium Balancer* (model XTR-BAL) is by far the most versatile and advanced balancer on the market. Featuring plug and go simplicity yet works with LiPo, Li ION and LiFe (A123- m1) batteries. It is the first ever balancer to feature three modes of operation; *Stand Alone*, *PC Controlled* and as an *integrated add-on balancer for the Xtrema Charger / Wattmeter* System.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Do you mind my asking where you sourced those packs in bulk? I'm planning on using them in my motorcycle.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Hobby King sells Turnigy Lipo Packs.



jackbauer said:


> Do you mind my asking where you sourced those packs in bulk? I'm planning on using them in my motorcycle.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Installing the bus bars today with lugs as connectors. I went with a 1" wide, .0375 thick bar, kinda overkill, but who's watching! 

I have been explained most of the safety precautions I need to take while building such a powerful pack, but if anyone would like to add their own safety technics while building this pack it would be much appriciated.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Installing the bus bars today with lugs as connectors. I went with a 1" wide, .0375 thick bar, kinda overkill, but who's watching!
> 
> I have been explained most of the safety precautions I need to take while building such a powerful pack, but if anyone would like to add their own safety technics while building this pack it would be much appriciated.


I expect you meant .375" thick bar - .0375 would definitely NOT be overkill!

Are you planning to split the pack in 2 or more sections with a safety contactor(s)?

Any current pics of the Camaro?

Keith


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Ok, have to jump in here. Just caught up on this thread....

All the discussion of dragging, voltage, hp, torque, series/parallel, etc. has my blood pumping. (excited, not angry)

I have a few observations that will be obvious to some but maybe not all, so I will add.

1. Hp and torque are very related. You cannot really have one without the other except at the extremes. 

2. Gearing allows one to turn excessive torque into useable rpm and to turn excessive rpm into usable torque.

3. The amps in electric drag systems seem to be currently fixed. 4000amps is the max (2 x Z2k). So the only way to increase the max kw is to up the voltage. 

4. Acceleration is determined by force AND mass. So power to weight ratio is absolutely critical. Aerodynamics are also quite important.

5. Ideally, whatever motor(s) used are within a few seconds of melting when you cross the finish, that way, you have achieved the maximum power to weight ratio from that given motor. I believe folks are using 11" instead of 13" because they have a higher rpm limit and they seem to be holding up under current power levels. If someone was to come up with a 6000amp controller, then the 11's would be melting and everybody would move up to the 13's.

Ok, with that foundation laid, I have a few questions.

1. Why limit yourself to a mere 2x 2000A? Why not build a 5000A (or more) battery and just short it directly to the motor(s)? I remember some blog a long time ago where some guy built a hand lever (out of plywood and some contacts) that varied the voltage, but always gave the motor full amps. (if I remember correctly).

2. Why only use 2 11" motors? Why not 4 8" motors (or some other combination? The DSM cars (Talon, Eclipse) hold many track records because they have all wheel drive. Anybody can build huge hp, but getting it to the ground gets harder and harder the higher you go. 

I realize the folks dragging have much experience and are obviously doing a lot right, I am just wondering if everybody is sort of following the same formula and the state of the art is kinda in a plateau right now. 

The biggest limitation seems to be cash. Real progress would be figuring out how to go faster with a relatively cheap setup, but maybe the Zombie already filled that niche and now the speed of the vehicle is directly proportional to the (exponential?) cash thrown at it.

Ok, now slaughter me...


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

ruckus said:


> 1. Hp and torque are very related. You cannot really have one without the other except at the extremes.
> 
> 2. Gearing allows one to turn excessive torque into useable rpm and to turn excessive rpm into usable torque.
> 
> 3. The amps in electric drag systems seem to be currently fixed. 4000amps is the max (2 x Z2k). So the only way to increase the max kw is to up the voltage.


1. HP = torque * rpm / 5252

2. Follows from point one. A very important point too! The fastest EVs are playing gears and motor amps to tweak launch and far end of the track performance.

3. Alas, the voltage is also fixed. The Z2k-EHV can only take... well... lets call it 360 volts though it will start up with a few more.


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## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Installing the bus bars today with lugs as connectors. I went with a 1" wide, .0375 thick bar, kinda overkill, but who's watching!


Why are you installing bus bars, what do they add but weight, you're already balancing individual cells manually so why bother paralleling up sub-packs?

Also, you asked about safety precautions: Routine manual connection-disconnection of cell balancers inside that box means you're spending a lot more time in there than I'd want to. If it were mine I'd want all of my day-to-day dealings with it to be arms length and optically isolated.

That's a scary looking pile of lithium you're building but I guess it's no worse than a tank of fuel so long as it's treated with respect... just a *lot* more expensive! Have you tested one of these packs to verify the capacity, output and cycle life, on paper they look promising?


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

EVfun said:


> Alas, the voltage is also fixed. The Z2k-EHV can only take... well... lets call it 360 volts though it will start up with a few more.


Ok, so 4000A x 360v = 1440KW = 1930 hp gross. At 80% efficiency that is about 1500 hp.

Everybody seems to have the same motors and controllers, so everyone is starting from the same baseline potential. Thus it comes down to gearing, chassis weight, traction, aerodynamics, and the lightest battery that can actually push 4000amps.

Are folks actually able to push 4000A?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

ruckus said:


> Ok, so 4000A x 360v = 1440KW = 1930 hp gross. At 80% efficiency that is about 1500 hp.
> 
> Everybody seems to have the same motors and controllers, so everyone is starting from the same baseline potential. Thus it comes down to gearing, chassis weight, traction, aerodynamics, and the lightest battery that can actually push 4000amps.
> 
> Are folks actually able to push 4000A?


 I am not familure with any of the race EVs that are sporting 2 Zillas so that brings what I have seen down to about 750 HP. I doubt the motors are still 80% efficient that the extreme overload level, taking it down to about 650 HP. The Zilla doesn't deliver full amps at full voltage, its derates the amps down to about 1800 at 360 volts, down to about 585 HP. Alas, the batteries sag some so it's only about 310 volts at full steam, taking it down to about 500 HP. I'm not going to name the car as I may be off a bit. Still, that is wicked fast in a small car!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The new Lawless bike is using two Zillas.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Try this:
http://www.evconsultinginc.com/34ford.html

If you are right, then this project will be very successful.

Cheers.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I hope this answers your questions. 



ruckus said:


> Ok, have to jump in here. Just caught up on this thread....
> 
> All the discussion of dragging, voltage, hp, torque, series/parallel, etc. has my blood pumping. (excited, not angry)
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

It does not matter if the car is small or large. What matters is the weight and aerodynamics. 



EVfun said:


> I am not familure with any of the race EVs that are sporting 2 Zillas so that brings what I have seen down to about 750 HP. I doubt the motors are still 80% efficient that the extreme overload level, taking it down to about 650 HP. The Zilla doesn't deliver full amps at full voltage, its derates the amps down to about 1800 at 360 volts, down to about 585 HP. Alas, the batteries sag some so it's only about 310 volts at full steam, taking it down to about 500 HP. I'm not going to name the car as I may be off a bit. Still, that is wicked fast in a small car!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The bus bars have their advantage, they balance at each string. Without a BMS/balance system, this is a must. The balance wire plugs will be easy access, away from the packs and bus bars. It's funny when people call lithium 'scary' or 'dangerous'. I have been around high octane fuels 'Cam II' my whole life, racing fuels are much much more dangerous than lithium. 



jk1981 said:


> Why are you installing bus bars, what do they add but weight, you're already balancing individual cells manually so why bother paralleling up sub-packs?
> 
> Also, you asked about safety precautions: Routine manual connection-disconnection of cell balancers inside that box means you're spending a lot more time in there than I'd want to. If it were mine I'd want all of my day-to-day dealings with it to be arms length and optically isolated.
> 
> That's a scary looking pile of lithium you're building but I guess it's no worse than a tank of fuel so long as it's treated with respect... just a *lot* more expensive! Have you tested one of these packs to verify the capacity, output and cycle life, on paper they look promising?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> It's funny when people call lithium 'scary' or 'dangerous'. I have been around high octane fuels 'Cam II' my whole life, racing fuels are much much more dangerous than lithium.


It's funny when people with zero experience talk about how safe and easy it is to build an EV. Controlling 360 volts x 4000 amps requires many design considerations for safety yet you don't seem to do any calculations or testing before hand. I hope your confidence comes from the fact you have hired experts to do the engineering and design work for you behind the scenes.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have gained plenty of experience in the past few months with the guidance of paid engineers. Your quote on our calculations and testing is false and bias. My confidence comes from understanding and following instructions from professionals in the field, not from online prima donnas! 



etischer said:


> It's funny when people with zero experience talk about how safe and easy it is to build an EV. Controlling 360 volts x 4000 amps requires many design considerations for safety yet you don't seem to do any calculations or testing before hand. I hope your confidence comes from the fact you have hired experts to do the engineering and design work for you behind the scenes.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Let's wait till you actually get an ev on the road before you start boasting about how much ev experience you have =) 




LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have gained plenty of experience in the past few months with the guidance of paid engineers. Your quote on our calculations and testing is false and bias. My confidence comes from understanding and following instructions from professionals in the field, not from online prima donnas!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Who was boasting? I answered your question. Since you are such a fan, maybe I can send you a free brochure or logo? Would you like free tickets to our races? I appreciate your interest.



etischer said:


> Let's wait till you actually get an ev on the road before you start boasting about how much ev experience you have =)


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> ... if anyone would like to add their own safety technics while building this pack it would be much appriciated.
> 
> My confidence comes from understanding and following instructions from professionals in the field, not from online prima donnas!


sorry, too far for this prima donna to drive.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

etischer said:


> It's funny when people with zero experience talk about how safe and easy it is to build an EV. Controlling 360 volts x 4000 amps requires many design considerations for safety yet you don't seem to do any calculations or testing before hand. I hope your confidence comes from the fact you have hired experts to do the engineering and design work for you behind the scenes.


He said that he DID hire experts as you suggest. 

Innovations are often made by people who lack experience and don't "know better." Unlike the "experts" who have ingested the going dogma. 

How about waiting to see how it performs before dissing him? 

Henry Ford never built a car until the first one.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

ruckus said:


> He said that he DID hire experts as you suggest.


Sorry if I sound skeptical. When someone who has yet to flow a single electron talks about how safe and easy it is, either they lack experience, or have been well advised on the possible dangers and accepted them. My hope is that the people he has hired have conveyed the dangers involved. Judging by what I've seen I have my doubts.


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## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The bus bars have their advantage, they balance at each string. Without a BMS/balance system, this is a must.


I thought you were going to balance during charging with those plug in modules? BMS surely does nothing for you when the pack is under load besides monitor cell voltages. You have connections to each cell built into those packs, why not parallel the cells rather than the sub-packs if it's cell balance you're looking to achieve?



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The balance wire plugs will be easy access, away from the packs and bus bars.


Sounds like a lot of wiring with some potentially very unfriendly voltages present at the surface of the pack. Do be careful.



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> It's funny when people call lithium 'scary' or 'dangerous'. I have been around high octane fuels 'Cam II' my whole life, racing fuels are much much more dangerous than lithium.


If several tens of kilos of fragile high power battery isn't 'scary' then one of us is missing something. Hopefully it's me eh.

Anyway, best of luck.
jk


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Hey Ron,

Have you changed your mind about motors? I see a pic of a siamese9 on the Lithiumaniacs homepage. How is the car coming - any current pics? 

Later,
Keith


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Typing "turnigy lipo" into google returns a concerning number of hits with the word "fire".


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

ruckus said:


> Typing "turnigy lipo" into google returns a concerning number of hits with the word "fire".



Hence the concern of experienced builders like etischer


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Guys, guys, guys relax! We have the build under control. I do appreciate all the input with concerns, but we/I know what I have and what I need to do for safety.

I am a certified auto/diesel technician, so, I have the hands on skills to master any build with the correct information. Yes, I had hired a chassis specialists, and a battery builder with years of experience. The team combined is now reaching our goals.

The pack has changed design to a pancake style (I will post pictures soon), and I have ordered all my wiring, contactors etc....

Three Kilovac EV500 with AUX contacts (damn expensive!).
Albright SW202 reversing contactor.
Anderson Power Pole SB Series.
2/0, 3/0 cables.
Ferraz Shawmut fuse with holder.

Wiring the car will start this weekend.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Wow, thats interesting. Turnigy nano-tech lipos have the best reputation on the market. All lipos will catch fire if undercharge or overcharge, this is very well know to all lipo owners. Show me a lipo that can produce 45c to 90c for more than ten seconds? 



ruckus said:


> Typing "turnigy lipo" into google returns a concerning number of hits with the word "fire".


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Just to give you guys a picture of the finished battery case. All the high voltage bus bars, wires, etc....will be inside the lexan box. The balance plugs will clip into the 'battery case top' for easy excess, they will be covered with plug covers. I can remove the balancer plug covers and plug in cell logs or Xtreme balancers without removing the battery case top. Very neat design.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Brute Force (Aug 28, 2010)

Constructive critique: NEVER put more than one high current wire in a screw terminal! It's not even recommended for low current applications.

Get a quality ratcheting crimp tool and put lug terminals on each wire.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

That was our original plan, but I found it hard to find 10awg lugs. The screw down lugs were my idea. My battery engineer has seen the screw lugs and told me they will work, let me run it by him again. What is the reasoning the large scew clamp lugs will not work? Thanks. 



Brute Force said:


> Constructive critique: NEVER put more than one high current wire in a screw terminal! It's not even recommended for low current applications.
> 
> Get a quality ratcheting crimp tool and put lug terminals on each wire.


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## Tahoe Tim (Feb 20, 2010)

Brute,
Hate to disagree but you can put multiple wires under one terminal if it is rated for it. The lugs rated for multiple wires usually have an elliptical hole. The lugs he is using don't appear to be rated for two wires. 

What caught my eye was the lug is attached. There isn't much clamping force except under the bolt. Why not just crimp a ring terminal on each wire and stack them under the bolt?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, this is a good discussion. I haven't heard back from my battery engineer yet, so I will wait before installing the second string. 
I have purchased one lug (special order) that fit the 10awg wire, it was thicker than your basic .40 electrical hole connectors, but not as 'heavy duty' as the screw down lugs. So, what type of clamping elliptical hole lug (that fits 10awg) are you guys posting about? 



Tahoe Tim said:


> Brute,
> Hate to disagree but you can put multiple wires under one terminal if it is rated for it. The lugs rated for multiple wires usually have an elliptical hole. The lugs he is using don't appear to be rated for two wires.
> 
> What caught my eye was the lug is attached. There isn't much clamping force except under the bolt. Why not just crimp a ring terminal on each wire and stack them under the bolt?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I want to point out to everyone reading, that this pack is only 'stable' for about 10 to 15 seconds of racing. It is not built for long durations of draw. As you can see, the packs have wires that are only 10awg, calculations have been made on how long I can draw before heating the wires.


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## Brute Force (Aug 28, 2010)

I've always heard the heavy duty ring terminals called lugs.

Try these:

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/br...e=en_US&catalogId=&prevNValues=500003+1001586


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Why not whip up a few of each type, put them in series (guarantees the same current) and measure the voltage drop across each? Higher voltage would tell you more resistance.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Nice find, but I am worried about the 'F' size of the tab, very thin.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/578099.pdf

10awg = 2.59mm wire, so the ring terminal for 2.5mm is .8mm thick, very thin. Am I correct?



Brute Force said:


> I've always heard the heavy duty ring terminals called lugs.
> 
> Try these:
> 
> http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500003+1001586+5207818+134998&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=10+gage+ring+terminal&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_US&catalogId=&prevNValues=500003+1001586+5207818&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D500003%2B1001586%26Ntk%3Dgensearch_001%26Ntt%3D10%2Bgage%2Bring%2Bterminal%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_US%26catalogId%3D%26prevNValues%3D500003%2B1001586


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## Brute Force (Aug 28, 2010)

The way I read the datasheet, the wall thickness would be half the F dimension. Somewhere in the .5mm to .6mm range.

Regardless, it's the cross section that's important. Multiply the F and the D dimensions. The cross section is greater than that of 10awg wire.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

My lug dimensions:

F= 2.58mm
D= 13.75mm
FxD= 35.47mm
_________________________

Davico terminal dimensions:

F= .8mm
D= 10mm
FxD= 8mm

8mm x two connectors= 16mm

_________________________

If i am correct, my screw terminal is much better, or am I wrong?

Thanks, in advance. 


Brute Force said:


> The way I read the datasheet, the wall thickness would be half the F dimension. Somewhere in the .5mm to .6mm range.
> 
> Regardless, it's the cross section that's important. Multiply the F and the D dimensions. The cross section is greater than that of 10awg wire.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

So, the screw in lugs I am using could be called 'over kill'.



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> My lug dimensions:
> 
> F= 2.58mm
> D= 13.75mm
> ...


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

But aren't crimped connections far superior to screw terminals for multi-strand wire? I had always understood that was the main reason for tinning wire ends.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You may have a good point. I will discuss this with my 'battery dude' and make a decision by Monday. Big Nascar day Sunday, plenty of time to do research. 

If I can find a 'crimped' style circle lug that is 'beefy', I will replace the screw in lugs.



kek_63 said:


> But aren't crimped connections far superior to screw terminals for multi-strand wire? I had always understood that was the main reason for tinning wire ends.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Looks like you doubled the number of cells in parallel? Before you were doing 7? now it's 14? Did you double the number of cells, or reduce voltage?

Putting two wires in one screw clamp is fine. 

There is hardly any current flowing from your wire clamps to the bus bar, I wouldn't worry about the clamping force to the bus bar. 

What was the result of your calculation, much current can you safely pull for 15 seconds? How hot will the wires get? What equations did you use?




LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I want to point out to everyone reading, that this pack is only 'stable' for about 10 to 15 seconds of racing. It is not built for long durations of draw. As you can see, the packs have wires that are only 10awg, calculations have been made on how long I can draw before heating the wires.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am not the engineer, just the 'hands on' tech. I was instructed to increase my packs in parallel to reduce 'strain' on wires and tabs. He figured 70ah will do the job, much larger than I wanted, but plenty of 'gas' in the tank! 

If I keep the 'screw clamps' do I need to add tin or solder into the clamp? 

The second pack will be much smaller with larger wires and tabs. 



etischer said:


> Looks like you doubled the number of cells in parallel? Before you were doing 7? now it's 14? Did you double the number of cells, or reduce voltage?
> 
> Putting two wires in one screw clamp is fine.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The voltage is 295v nominal. Batteries are rated for 45c to 90c. 



etischer said:


> Did you double the number of cells, or reduce voltage?quote]


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I was instructed to increase my packs in parallel to reduce 'strain' on wires and tabs.


This is what we've been trying to tell you. So you basically doubled the size of your pack?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, I doubled the ah capacity. I was waiting for wire and tab testing being completed by a professional battery builder. I always look here for advice, but must confirm with who I have on contract. I am really loving all this new information I am learning. Many, many more batteries builds in the near future. 



etischer said:


> This is what we've been trying to tell you. So you basically doubled the size of your pack?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I was waiting for wire and tab testing being completed by a professional battery builder. I always look here for advice, but must confirm with who I have on contract. I am really loving all this new information I am learning.


So what were the test results? How many amps can you pull though each pack for 15 seconds? What's the temperature rise in the wire?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I see where you think I changed the design recently to 70ah, this drawing is a 70ah pack, it is not 7P it is 14P. The original design from Turnigy was using the 10S packs which come with two positives and two negatives on the top, they just built one 5S over another. We decided to split these packs into 5S and use a flat wide battery box. 



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Recent testing and new designs have been done to the battery pack. We are now not installing a BMS system, we are installing cell balancers that will connect during charging only. We have also decided to install busbars.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Ah, I see. 

Got calcs or test data =)


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We can get 4000amps if needed, but will never need that much. I didn't get specific 'per pack' amps, just a whole number. The pack stays cool enough even with such a draw for 15 seconds. I don't have a specific temperature for you, just a guarantee. I can get specifics if you guys want. Turnigy Lipo packs stay cool, they are the top of the line at the moment. Once they build them with larger wires and tabs they will compete with Dow Kokam.



etischer said:


> So what were the test results? How many amps can you pull though each pack for 15 seconds? What's the temperature rise in the wire?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

If you went though the effort of testing these cells, it would be a nice way to give back to the community to publish your findings. People are always looking for comparison data



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> We can get 4000amps if needed, but will never need that much. I didn't get specific 'per pack' amps, just a whole number. The pack stays cool enough even with such a draw for 15 seconds. I don't have a specific temperature for you, just a guarantee. I can get specifics if you guys want. Turnigy Lipo packs stay cool, they are the top of the line at the moment. Once they build them with larger wires and tabs they will compete with Dow Kokam.


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

As long as you are only using the car for drag-racing, tinning wires should not give any troubles. Long term reliability will be compromised as the tinning tend to create a stiff area in the strands, and the strands will tend to break just after the tinned part. I would recommend a decent crimped connection and proper lugs for reliability.

Just my 2cents
Regards
Dawid


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Many different feelings on these connections. I am still awaiting to hear back from my 'battery dude'. I am considering removing the screw adding a little solder, install the screw, and heat while tightening.

Any input on that process?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

General consensus seems to be that adding solder that way creates a hard spot and over time vibration can weaken and break the wire at the solder joint. Others don't think it's an issue. I say run some current through your setup the way it is and see if things get hot and look for voltage drops. If you have enough contact area between the wires inside your terminals you might be fine.


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## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> If I can find a 'crimped' style circle lug that is 'beefy', I will replace the screw in lugs.


You don't need 'beefy', just something secure and adequate. By the way your 10awg cable is ~2.5mm dia so ~5sqmm in section. The lugs will have adequate section for the wire they accept.

Are the bus bars for charging parallel strings? I really can't see why you have them at all let alone why they're so big.

jk


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Copper lugs are tinned for corrosion protection. Nothing more. Plain copper lugs have better flow when new, but that falls rather quickly with exposure to time and elements. After a year or two, the tinned lugs outperform the plain copper. In a build like this, plain copper lugs might be better since the system will likely be torn apart and rebuilt different before old age sets in. 

If you want beefy lugs, these are the beefiest I have found:
http://www.asklug.com/terminal-lugs-2.html
-at least the 4/0 use thicker material than others. Not sure about the other sizes. 

I have noticed screw lugs like you have are used by "mbarkley" in his photostream. http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/ Since he is performing busbar tests and is a maniac for low-resistance connections, I assume the screw terminals must be plenty good. I thought the only reason folks didn't use them on EV's is cost and the potential for them to loosen over time. Something you won't be concerned with since you will tighten everything regularly.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

ruckus said:


> Copper lugs are tinned for corrosion protection. Nothing more. Plain copper lugs have better flow when new, but that falls rather quickly with exposure to time and elements. After a year or two, the tinned lugs outperform the plain copper.


I smear a very thin layer of this stuff on my connections and bare copper and see no corrosion after a year: http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html
Practical Sailor recently did a corrosion test and the NO OX ID Special came out with the best results.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*Netgain 11" Motors arrived today!*


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bill and I (chassis dude) will install motors this week. Need to pick-up shorty turbo 400 transmission tail Tuesday. Custom cross member being built, motor position has been centered with rear, all looks good!


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Nice motors.

I hate to say it, but they need help in their paint department.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I assume they are used motors.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> I assume they are used motors.


OK, I'll shut up now. 

That IS a lot of copper... will you force feed them air?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, we will touch them up later. 



ruckus said:


> Nice motors.
> 
> I hate to say it, but they need help in their paint department.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Only used a few hours. Then rebuilt by Netgain for me. They have specific 'upgrades' needed for racing. Let's just say they have the secret sauce!

The last vehicle they ripped the rear out of the car! 



JRP3 said:


> I assume they are used motors.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Yes, we will touch them up later.


CroDriver Chome?


It is scary to think what they will be capable of. I only have the one 11" for my trike and that is only forklift grade.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The last vehicle they ripped the rear out of the car!



What diff are you running? 

I assume you are going with the widest tires available? You'll need'em


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Short Ford 9" with huuuuuuge slicks! 

Yes, she will launch! 



ruckus said:


> What diff are you running?
> 
> I assume you are going with the widest tires available? You'll need'em


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

No chrome this year, maybe next year. Time is short.



Woodsmith said:


> CroDriver Chome?
> 
> 
> It is scary to think what they will be capable of. I only have the one 11" for my trike and that is only forklift grade.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Only used a few hours. Then rebuilt by Netgain for me. They have specific 'upgrades' needed for racing. Let's just say they have the secret sauce!
> 
> The last vehicle they ripped the rear out of the car!


So these two motors have been bolted together in the same vehicle - used only a few hours - destroyed it - then returned to Netgain? What vehicle? 

Gotta warn you, my bulls%!t meter pings quick when I read statements like that.

Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, since your 'bullshit meter' is running too high you might want to see a doctor.

The motors were installed in a BMW in California, the rear differentials could not handle the torque. They are getting smaller motors from George at Netgain.

This can be confirmed by CALLING George at Netgain.



kek_63 said:


> So these two motors have been bolted together in the same vehicle - used only a few hours - destroyed it - then returned to Netgain? What vehicle?
> 
> Gotta warn you, my bulls%!t meter pings quick when I read statements like that.
> 
> Keith


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Is it jealousy that makes folks so trigger happy on this thread? 

I, for one, want this thing to succeed as it will help the plight of EV'ers since the ICE crowd will only respect EV's once they are consistently forced to eat battery dust, er whatever.


Give the guy a chance to prove up without constant detractions.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you!

I have shed blood, sweat and a ton of money to promote ev use and ev racing. I have scheduled and promoted ev races all over the East Coast of USA and beyond. I have organized and promoted the largest East Coast EV Expo in the USA, scheduled for September 2011 at Connecticut Expo Center.

It would be nice to get a pat on the back once in awhile.



ruckus said:


> Is it jealousy that makes folks so trigger happy on this thread?
> 
> I, for one, want this thing to succeed as it will help the plight of EV'ers since the ICE crowd will only respect EV's once they are consistently forced to eat battery dust, er whatever.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

ruckus said:


> Is it jealousy that makes folks so trigger happy on this thread?
> 
> I, for one, want this thing to succeed as it will help the plight of EV'ers since the ICE crowd will only respect EV's once they are consistently forced to eat battery dust, er whatever.
> 
> ...



It's because the guy joined the forum with the "How do I do this? What? No way! I can do it better despite my obvious lack of knowledge/experience, you are all going to bow before me and I will ignore any criticisms !1!11!11!!1!!!" attitude. 

I will say he has calmed down a bit and seems to legitimately be building a hell of a car. He is blazing  a new path with his battery choice and design so many are still skeptical, but it sure is fun to watch. 

Build on Lithiumaniac. Prove the doubters wrong.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The problem with my questions and responses is some did not like my decisions. Oh well, it is my money and my azz on the line. I hired engineers where I lacked the knowledge, and the build has moved on. One important lesson I learned is many different opinions come from many engineers, everyone is an expert, and everyone is correct. I collect all these opinions and make my own decision.

For example my choice of batteries. There is nothing wrong with using Lipo Batteries for racing applications, it has already been proven. The design is very well thought, and tested by battery engineers. Most have no clue on how to use a Lipo packs properly, this i have learned and feel very confident this my choice. Show me a cell that can deliver 90C for over 10 seconds?????? Remember this is 10 seconds of racing, not miles of driving.

You will see many more Lipo battery packs built with different styles. The future. When the new lipo cell starts production with larger tabs and wires, you will see smaller packs very powerful. My next pack will need to be only 25ah. 

In know the proof is in the time slips, stay tuned! March 26th, 2011 is coming quick!





Batterypoweredtoad said:


> It's because the guy joined the forum with the "How do I do this? What? No way! I can do it better despite my obvious lack of knowledge/experience, you are all going to bow before me and I will ignore any criticisms !1!11!11!!1!!!" attitude.
> 
> I will say he has calmed down a bit and seems to legitimately be building a hell of a car. He is blazing  a new path with his battery choice and design so many are still skeptical, but it sure is fun to watch.
> 
> Build on Lithiumaniac. Prove the doubters wrong.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> It's because the guy joined the forum with the "How do I do this? What? No way! I can do it better despite my obvious lack of knowledge/experience, you are all going to bow before me and I will ignore any criticisms !1!11!11!!1!!!" attitude.
> 
> I will say he has calmed down a bit and seems to legitimately be building a hell of a car. He is blazing  a new path with his battery choice and design so many are still skeptical, but it sure is fun to watch.
> 
> Build on Lithiumaniac. Prove the doubters wrong.


You sir (Batterypoweredtoad)..... have hit the nail on the head!! 

Ron, I wish you no ill will, in fact, I appreciate your enthusiasm and wish you success. But, you need to accept the fact that you are not the first person to get exited about EVs. 

You joined this forum last fall asking questions about the Mitsubishi that you wanted to convert. At that time I had been riding my slow, low voltage electric chopper for more than a year. Since you joined you have done an incredible amount of self-promotion (ECEDRA, IEDRA and Lithiunaniacs Hot Rod Race Shop) and bragging, and yet you have not driven one of your conversions one inch!

I can bust your balls if I want to.
Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Who said I was the first? I am passionate for ev racing. I may not have driven any of my conversions 'one inch', but I did/doing what I claimed I would do! Some talk the talk and some walk the walk, my friend, I handle business. Stop hating and build your own dragster. 

What will be your next complaints after March 26th, 2011??? The color? Now do I really need to come on this board on March 27th, 2011 and use the term, I TOLD YOU SO! I hate these games you guys play on this board, but it's amusing! 



kek_63 said:


> You sir (Batterypoweredtoad)..... have hit the nail on the head!!
> 
> Ron, I wish you no ill will, in fact, I appreciate your enthusiasm and wish you success. But, you need to accept the fact that you are not the first person to get exited about EVs.
> 
> ...


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

If I had known we were all going to start comparing our cucumbers, I would have brought my ruler 

In my years of posting on internet forums, I've found it useful to consider the fact that not everyone thinks the way I do. I try not to judge other people based on how I interpret their online demeanor, unless they are extremely abusive towards others.


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## ewert (Sep 5, 2009)

Could you post the pictures a tad smaller, or thumbnailed or something? I usually read on my netbook, and the pics break page spacing forcing me to scroll sideways a bit or zoom out which makes the fonts a tad small. This thread is usually the only one that does that, dunno how you format the posts with pics or what is the reason it happens on this thread ...


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

ewert said:


> Could you post the pictures a tad smaller, or thumbnailed or something?


Try posting it as an attachment, thumbnail size. That way you can post more pics in a smaller space, instead of multiple posts. There is a write-up somewhere on how to post pics as attachments. 

I like the pictures, and it does not bother me much at home. I also understand the plight of people trying to surf the web with limited resolution displays. This website is still nice, there are some which I battle with (resolution 1640 x 1280).

Lithiumaniacs, lets see more pics of progress, please.
Dawid


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Sounds like some on here need to learn about the Meyers Briggs personality types. 

Some people are innately programmed to question EVERYTHING, even advice given by "experts". This type is labeled the "inventor" for a reason. They brought you electricity, vaccines, and almost everything you use every day. And NO amount of telling them they are doing it wrong will make them change their ways. You should thank this type exactly BECAUSE they don't listen to conventional wisdom. If they did, we would still be in the stone age.

Other types are VERY good at listening to the experts, synthesizing the information, and building something that precisely conforms to the thinking of the "experts". This type will not invent new things, but will be extremely capable of building wonderful designs. It is typical of those who listen to the "experts" to be offended by the inventor type because the inventor type is disregarding what they hold sacred.

Kek_63, so you built a little EV bike a year ago. Big woop. You say that as if it makes you senior. Jim Husted is a senior. Most on here are Johny-come-latelys like you, me, etc. 

Let's respect one another and provide positive criticisms nicely worded when needed. If we can't get along, then we greatly reduce our chances of helping EV's to become dominant.

Cheers everybody.


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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

ruckus said:


> Sounds like some on here need to learn about the Meyers Briggs personality types.
> 
> Some people are innately programmed to question EVERYTHING, even advice given by "experts". This type is labeled the "inventor" for a reason. They brought you electricity, vaccines, and almost everything you use every day. And NO amount of telling them they are doing it wrong will make them change their ways. You should thank this type exactly BECAUSE they don't listen to conventional wisdom. If they did, we would still be in the stone age.
> 
> ...


Ok Dad - I'll play nice now. Check your PMs.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, all my future pictures will be much smaller.



ewert said:


> Could you post the pictures a tad smaller, or thumbnailed or something? I usually read on my netbook, and the pics break page spacing forcing me to scroll sideways a bit or zoom out which makes the fonts a tad small. This thread is usually the only one that does that, dunno how you format the posts with pics or what is the reason it happens on this thread ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Agreed, thank you!

I love to push estimates, calculations, etc... to their limits. You only live once on earth, you might as well enjoy it!



ruckus said:


> Sounds like some on here need to learn about the Meyers Briggs personality types.
> 
> Some people are innately programmed to question EVERYTHING, even advice given by "experts". This type is labeled the "inventor" for a reason. They brought you electricity, vaccines, and almost everything you use every day. And NO amount of telling them they are doing it wrong will make them change their ways. You should thank this type exactly BECAUSE they don't listen to conventional wisdom. If they did, we would still be in the stone age.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I need help from management. Team Lithiumaniacs is splitting into two different teams. The Camaro will be under a different team name. Can I change my membership name?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I need help from management. Team Lithiumaniacs is splitting into two different teams. The Camaro will be under a different team name. Can I change my membership name?


Not sure what the position would be on that.

Try sending a pm to rbgrn to see what he says.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I need help from management. Team Lithiumaniacs is splitting into two different teams. The Camaro will be under a different team name. Can I change my membership name?


Why the split? Is there going to be 2 vehicles now? What is the other one?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Team Lithiumaniacs has 3 cars for racing, one was the Camaro. The team will now have two cars, the 3000GT and the Tiburan.

The Camaro will have its own team. 



ruckus said:


> Why the split? Is there going to be 2 vehicles now? What is the other one?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay, thanks.



Woodsmith said:


> Not sure what the position would be on that.
> 
> Try sending a pm to rbgrn to see what he says.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have learned that building a 'custom' battery pack is no easy job. I spent over 8 hours today on the pack and only completed a few strings. I give all custom battery builders my full respect, it takes time and one hell of a steady hand!


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Be careful, no one here wants you to test that 90c rating anywhere but the track!


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have learned that building a 'custom' battery pack is no easy job. I spent over 8 hours today on the pack and only completed a few strings. I give all custom battery builders my full respect, it takes time and one hell of a steady hand!


Please tell us you bought some lineman's electrical gloves??


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have purchased 600V gloves, but they are very hard to work with with the small 10 awg wires. Wiring each pack one at a time should be safe, as long as I don't touch the farthest pos to the neg. When I get to the welding cable ends I will use the gloves.

Will I get zapped when wiring the next string one at a time? 



ruckus said:


> Please tell us you bought some lineman's electrical gloves??


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I hear ya! I have two young boys they need their father!



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Be careful, no one here wants you to test that 90c rating anywhere but the track!


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Looks like you are already the fastest car in the International Electric Drag Racing Association 

Congrats


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am not too sure about that, we have many new members with very fast cars. They will be at our races. I do think I have a chance! 



etischer said:


> Looks like you are already the fastest car in the International Electric Drag Racing Association
> 
> Congrats


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Chassis will be complete in about one week, then I start the wiring. 

I have purchased all the best components I can find. I have all the wiring diagrams for my dual Zilla 2k connections, motors and switches.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

While it might be fun to give it a go, are you thinking of using an experienced driver? Might make a real difference in the slip times -and the likelihood of a crash. That much power can be awful hard to control off the line...


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

That's pretty pack wiring there. Have you done any load testing on a smaller pack segment? Might be a good idea before doing miles of wiring for the rest. Your car itself could make a good load tester, just run everything on 36 or 48 or whatever it is Volts for some tests.

Is there anything special about the wire? Just curious if you did higher temperature wiring or anything.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am a very experienced drag racer. I started young with 16 mini-bikes, 4 go-karts, 4 dirt bikes, and atleast 15 motorcycles and over 20 hotrods growing up. I was working (and racing) at the age of 12 at my uncles hotrod shop. I had my first drag race at Englishtown, NJ in the early 80's. 



ruckus said:


> While it might be fun to give it a go, are you thinking of using an experienced driver? Might make a real difference in the slip times -and the likelihood of a crash. That much power can be awful hard to control off the line...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The pack and wires have been tested, all is good. 15 seconds is all she was before I create a black hole! LOL. I will only need 8 to 9 seconds.



DavidDymaxion said:


> That's retty pack wiring there. Have you done any load testing on a smaller pack segment? Might be a good idea before doing miles of wiring for the rest. Your car itself could make a good load tester, just run everything on 36 or 48 or whatever it is Volts for some tests.
> 
> Is there anything special about the wire? Just curious if you did higher temperature wiring or anything.


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## NHRABill (Jan 31, 2011)

interesting thread and build I wish you would show more pics and info on the car though... 

I am new to the EV world only been reading on it for a little over a year and still much to learn. What I do know is drag cars and a few simple things come to mind. 

1st would be the most obvious are they requiring you to get a license to drive the car or do you need to do a few checkoff runs for the track manager? Doubt any track manager would let you just hop in and flog it without showing proof. 

Safety wise I would believe you are following the standard protocol? Drive shaft loop trans blanket and scatter shield as well as a 12 point cage. Kill switch mount on the back to kill the battery pack and of course the proper in car fire extinguisher and safety wear like fire suit head sock gloves and rated helmet. blah blah blah boring stuff. Do they want the batteries Vented? Having only one in my trunk and was sent scattering to get a vent tube after I learned it fell out by the inspector. 

If you get a chance post some pics of the door car I have several projects I am looking to finish up myself before I can try my EV 101 project (baby Steps) Just finished looking over a 8 second 72 nova chassis that will have a slow year in the 10's using a basic 406 SBC I have laying around for the season 2200lbs. roller hope to have it track ready by early June

Camaro is such a heavy car for a drag project next time look for a G body car save a few hundred lbs. or do up a S/C Super comp dragster  Or I have a 67 Firebird in a 1,000 pieces I could let go for cheap 

Anyhow looking forward to seeing the progress and catching you possibly at one of the EV events I should have time to stop over and catch ya at E-Town


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Plenty of pics and video of the car coming soon!
Our Camaro will weigh in around 2300lbs with all the lexan and fiberglass.
The NHRA has rules and regulations for EV drag racing: http://www.ecedra.com/nhraevrules.html

Good Luck with your build! 



NHRABill said:


> interesting thread and build I wish you would show more pics and info on the car though...
> 
> I am new to the EV world only been reading on it for a little over a year and still much to learn. What I do know is drag cars and a few simple things come to mind.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Update of progress:

Motors and suspension being completed. 
All fiberglass arrived today! 

Camaro will leave chassis shop and head back to my shop for wiring next week. I must install the battery, controllers, fuses, contactors, 12v wiring, etc....in about one week! 

We are cutting it close for our first event, the car might not be painted by March 26th, 2011. It all depends on how long the wiring takes me.


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## NHRABill (Jan 31, 2011)

very cool they have their own section ... seems like basic requirements nothing out of the ordinary if you have done racing before I am sure you have it covered... Best of luck to you on the build and looking forward to watching it run..


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> .........................................................
> Soon picutres coming on new parts and changes to chassis and body.
> 
> * New tubular front control arms.
> ...


Taken from the first post in this thread (December 14, 2010) - followed by numerous promises of "pictures coming soon" - so let's see the car! You've posted a bazillion pics of lexan boxes and batteries - I'm anxious to see more of the dragster!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, when building something that have never been done before there will be 'bazillions' of changes for the better, LOL. Pictures of car coming soon! 



kek_63 said:


> Taken from the first post in this thread (December 14, 2010) - followed by numerous promises of "pictures coming soon" - so let's see the car! You've posted a bazillion pics of lexan boxes and batteries - I'm anxious to see more of the dragster!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*Looking for input on this design. *


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Add a fuse at the fromt battery pack.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Ahhh, bingo! Your correct with a second pack I need two fuses. Will order now. Thanks! 



Jimdear2 said:


> Add a fuse at the fromt battery pack.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I assume u mean 2/0 welding cable, not #2 wire. In any case it's too small for application. Take another look at it.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

LOL, yes we are using 2/0 high voltage welding cable from batteries to controllers. We are using 3/0 cable from controllers to motors. These sizes will work for our application, and they were provided free from a new sponsor ABCO Welding Supply. 



DIYguy said:


> I assume u mean 2/0 welding cable, not #2 wire. In any case it's too small for application. Take another look at it.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Depending on our times in the 1/4 mile, I may purchase this overdrive kit for the Camaro. Using this kit allows my car to maintain higher gears in the rear for quicker launches of the line with the ability to shift for a better top end.

http://www.gearvendors.com/racing.html


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Are you sure about the 2/0 cable size? That seems too small. NEDRA racers with 2/0 and a Zilla report the cable gets so hot it's floppy at the end of a drag run. You are running 2 Zillas and a very stout battery pack -- that's twice the current which would be four times the heating. In any case I'd suggest using an IR thermometer on everything and work up slowly in current.


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


>


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I will monitor the wire heat, and the battery heat. If she heats up I will upgrade to larger cable. My system is borderline on every part. May have some 'oops' but will learn from our mistakes. I will take it slow, must see how the pack does anyways. Each run I will up the amps.

Nothing like living on the edge! 



DavidDymaxion said:


> Are you sure about the 2/0 cable size? That seems too small. NEDRA racers with 2/0 and a Zilla report the cable gets so hot it's floppy at the end of a drag run. You are running 2 Zillas and a very stout battery pack -- that's twice the current which would be four times the heating. In any case I'd suggest using an IR thermometer on everything and work up slowly in current.


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## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> My system is borderline on every part. May have some 'oops' but will learn from our mistakes.


So why not listen and upgrade it now while it's cheap to do so? 'Oops' in this case could be a very messy plasma explosion.

Do you have some sort of interlock to make sure both motors run the same way?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

I think it's interesting people are worrying about the size of the cable here when the single Albright SW202 is being asked to carry almost 10x more current than its continuous rating allows and expecting it to survive. I don't like to see any contactors in the motor circuit in EVs, but if you must resort to them (ie - for reversing a direct drive setup or series/parallel switching) then make sure they are rated to carry the full current expected.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I will monitor the wire heat, and the battery heat. If she heats up I will upgrade to larger cable. My system is borderline on every part. May have some 'oops' but will learn from our mistakes. I will take it slow, must see how the pack does anyways. Each run I will up the amps.
> 
> Nothing like living on the edge!


Living on the edge could very well be dying on the edge with that setup.

What do your "paid experts" have to say about it? or is it their design?


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> I think it's interesting people are worrying about the size of the cable here...


 I agree. Why over engineer something in the first instance when its easily upgradable.

I don't know a whole lot about drag racing but it seems pretty obvious to me that when testing a machine like this you'll detect problems like cable getting too hot... and if it were me - if it didn't affect performance a certain amount of getting hot cable would be tolerable.

Lithiumaniacs this is a great project and I wish u the best, I'm definately keeping an eye on it here despite some of the pointless negative feedback  Good Luck!! You may indeed be a maniac but I fully endorse it!!


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> I think it's interesting people are worrying about the size of the cable here when the single Albright SW202 is being asked to carry almost 10x more current than its continuous rating allows and expecting it to survive. I don't like to see any contactors in the motor circuit in EVs, but if you must resort to them (ie - for reversing a direct drive setup or series/parallel switching) then make sure they are rated to carry the full current expected.


I know this ain't right but...

I have seen one of them survive not one, but TWO high voltage high current disconnects. The contactor was toast afterwards, but it shut the off the massive current from 360 volts worth of Hawker Genesis batteries flowing through a shorted motor controller into a direct drive connected motor TWICE! I do not recommend this, but I feel a lot better about using them. The contactor was turned on and the rear tires lit up. The driver quickly shut off the car but in what I guess was disbelief switched it back on, and the tires lit up again. He switched it off the second time and we pushed the car back to the pits.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Jeff,

That is our weak link, the Albright Contactor for reversing. We are still discussing other options, but this might be it for now. Many racers have used the Albright for racing applications, and yes they blow all the time. There is no Albright (that I know) that can handle our amps/volts. Do you know of any options?

Also, the shirts for our ECEDRA Event in Palm Beach have the sponsors printed on the back. The shirts and hats will be given out for free for ev supporters.



Tesseract said:


> I think it's interesting people are worrying about the size of the cable here when the single Albright SW202 is being asked to carry almost 10x more current than its continuous rating allows and expecting it to survive. I don't like to see any contactors in the motor circuit in EVs, but if you must resort to them (ie - for reversing a direct drive setup or series/parallel switching) then make sure they are rated to carry the full current expected.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

LOL, just having fun! 



evlowrider said:


> I agree. Why over engineer something in the first instance when its easily upgradable.
> 
> I don't know a whole lot about drag racing but it seems pretty obvious to me that when testing a machine like this you'll detect problems like cable getting too hot... and if it were me - if it didn't affect performance a certain amount of getting hot cable would be tolerable.
> 
> Lithiumaniacs this is a great project and I wish u the best, I'm definately keeping an eye on it here despite some of the pointless negative feedback  Good Luck!! You may indeed be a maniac but I fully endorse it!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I need to go public with this info because it has been eating me up for weeks.

After receiving a response from my sponsor on his interest I searched for a experienced battery builder for my Lipo series packs. Most of you know I hired Thomas Cook from LithiumStart. After I wired $2000.00 for his technical support and testing of my Lipo packs, he first came with positive info on what sizes to build going in parallel. Thomas was very helpful at first and sent me many emails with information. I explained to him before we started about the NEDRA/ECEDRA pizzing match, his response was I do not get involved with NEDRA politics. So, all was okay and we moved forward. He was the tech that recommended I use two Zilla controllers.

Now the big problem started, one day I called him to get additional info and he said I cannot help you anymore, people from my area have found out that I am working with you and they threatened to cut off my future projects. I was upset, but understood and hired another engineer. Now, the malicious behavior started, days later I receive an email from my sponsor explaining some 'drama queen' called him and stated he was not helping me build my pack and I have no way to continue with my project. He also, said Thomas Cook went on and on about the NEDRA/ECEDRA pizzing match. 

This really pizzed me off, Thomas Cook was NOT involved in any negotiations with my sponsor and had no right calling China and TRYING to hurt and destroy my sponsorship deal. He in my book is a low life and deserves what he gets. 

I am now going public because he or any other scumbag cannot hurt Team Lithiumaniacs anymore. We have received all our batteries and $00,000.00 in our account. We are now ready to start our season and more forward. A press-release will be published along with a new team name very soon.

GLTA!


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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

It's spelled "pissing".

What's the situation between NEDRA and ECEDRA?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

We don't need to rip into all that here... or again. If you want to see the origin of the issues between NEDRA and ECEDRA you could look into the archives of the NEDRA Yahoo list, starting with September 23, 2011.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> There is no Albright (that I know) that can handle our amps/volts. Do you know of any options?


Sure, there are lots of options. The simplest is to double (quadruple, etc.) up on the Albrights. Connect them in parallel, that is. That doesn't help with the voltage rating, but as long as you don't make the potentially fatal mistake of changing the contactor state while the controller is delivering current it's a non-issue.

You could also use four individual contactors to create a DPDT reversing switch with the same rating as one contactor (eg - 300V/500A if you used EV200s).


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks, for the info. 



Tesseract said:


> Sure, there are lots of options. The simplest is to double (quadruple, etc.) up on the Albrights. Connect them in parallel, that is. That doesn't help with the voltage rating, but as long as you don't make the potentially fatal mistake of changing the contactor state while the controller is delivering current it's a non-issue.
> 
> You could also use four individual contactors to create a DPDT reversing switch with the same rating as one contactor (eg - 300V/500A if you used EV200s).


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

LOL! I know how to spell PISSED! I was trying not to be so harsh. 



Darxus said:


> It's spelled "pissing".
> 
> What's the situation between NEDRA and ECEDRA?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, I agree. We do not need to bring up all them bad ego's again. Since, the 'disagreement' I have spoke with many in NEDRA. The latest was a conversation between Chip and I, when I offered my services for his Power of DC event. We agreed to co-exist. That is also posted on the NEDRA Yahoo Group. 



EVfun said:


> We don't need to rip into all that here... or again. If you want to see the origin of the issues between NEDRA and ECEDRA you could look into the archives of the NEDRA Yahoo list, starting with September 23, 2011.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Jeff,

The DPDT reversing switch can be used with my 296n pack? 

Is it possible to reverse with only the 12V battery? and if so, what should I use the DPDT or Albright?

One more question if you don't mind, the Bubba 500's I am using, are they the best for my application?

Thanks in advance! 



Tesseract said:


> Sure, there are lots of options. The simplest is to double (quadruple, etc.) up on the Albrights. Connect them in parallel, that is. That doesn't help with the voltage rating, but as long as you don't make the potentially fatal mistake of changing the contactor state while the controller is delivering current it's a non-issue.
> 
> You could also use four individual contactors to create a DPDT reversing switch with the same rating as one contactor (eg - 300V/500A if you used EV200s).


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am posting our parts list from our Camaro. This is to help some interested parties that might consider building their own dragster.
_____________________________________________

Jerry Bickel Race Cars <[email protected]> to [email protected]

JBRC1031AK - Pro Wheelie Bars (Unwelded) JBRC1031AK / Qty: 1 / Price: $650.00

JBRC1001SK - Sportsman Driveshaft Loop JBRC1001SK (Unwelded) / Qty: 1 / Price: $59.00

S-5006 - Strange Engineering Double Adjustable Shocks S-5006 / Qty: 2 / Price: $584.00

JBRC1020 - Master Cylinder Mount Kit JBRC1020 / Qty: 1 / Price: $49.00

JBRC1017 - Brake Pedal Push Rod JBRC1017 / Qty: 1 / Price: $30.00

HUR5667550 - Hurst Roll Control Solenoid - HUR5667550 / Qty: 1 / Price: $109.00

WIL260-1874 - Wilwood 2# Residual Pressure Valve - WIL260-1874 / Qty: 2 / Price: $37.90

JB1108 - Banjo 9/16"- 20 to 1/8" NPT Master Cylinder Fitting - JB1108 / Qty: 1 / Price: $34.95

JB1107 - Banjo 1/2"- 20 to 1/8" NPT Master Cylinder Fitting - JB1107 / Qty: 1 / Price: $34.95

JBRC1015 - Ultra Light Pedal Assembly Kit JBRC1015 / Qty: 1 / Price: $329.00

JBRC5039 - Throttle Cable JBRC5039 / Qty: 1 / Price: $59.00

JBRC3001 - Pedal Boot Kit JBRC3001 / Qty: 1 / Price: $29.00

JBRC1102 - Gas Pedal Stop JBRC1102 / Qty: 1 / Price: $25.00

JBRC1023B - Billet Rack & Pinion Mount Kit JBRC1023B / Qty: 1 / Price: $59.95

WIL2604894 - Wilwood Mopar Style Sportsman Master Cylinder - WIL2604894 / Qty: 1 / Price: $99.00

JBRC5014 - Pro Stock Brake Line Kit - JBRC5014 / Qty: 1 / Price: $159.00

JBRC5020 - 1/2" Rubber Window Installation Kit / Qty: 1 / Price: $49.00

JBRC2018 - Car Year: 1981
Car Model: Camaro
Door Window Frames / Qty: 1 / Price: $179.00

JBRC3009K - Door Safety Strap Kit JBRC3009K / Qty: 1 / Price: $56.00

JBRC2032A - Striker Protection Plates JBRC2032A / Qty: 1 / Price: $25.00

JBRC2112 - Upper Door & Window Latches / Qty: 1 / Price: $189.00

JBRC2030 - Inside Door Panel Fastener Kit JBRC2030 / Qty: 1 / Price: $69.00

JBRC2022A - Outside Door Handles JBRC2022A / Qty: 1 / Price: $79.00

JBRC2021 - Inside Door Handle Kit JBRC2021 / Qty: 1 / Price: $79.00

JBRC2020 - Door Latch Kit JBRC2020 / Qty: 1 / Price: $219.00

JBRC2019 - Door Hinge Mount Kit JBRC2019 / Qty: 1 / Price: $160.00

JBRC2016 - Front End To Chassis Mount Kit JBRC2016 / Qty: 1 / Price: $119.00

JBRC2015 - Front End to Body Mount Kit JBRC2015 / Qty: 1 / Price: $79.00

JBRC1021D - Steering Column Kits JBRC1021D / Qty: 1 / Price: $219.00

GS1000-12 - Firewall Steering Shaft Boot Seal GS1000-12 / Qty: 1 / Price: $20.00

GRA773 - Steering Wheels GRA773 / Qty: 1 / Price: $79.00

JAZ-120-300-03 - Aluminum High Back Drag Seat JAZ-120-300-03 / Qty: 1 / Price: $139.95

JAZ-150-301-03 - Aluminum High Back Drag Seat Cover JAZ-150-301-03 / Qty: 1 / Price: $72.95


*****************************

Customer Shipping Information

Ronald Adamowicz
770 Newfield Street
Middletown, CT US 06457


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Guys,

I am working as fast as I can, but I may be wiring this car on my trip to Florida. 

I will be at our event, no matter what, I hope the car if finished enough to race. I have hired additional chassis techs to finish all the fiberglass and custom mounts. Months of work in weeks. She is a work of art!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The DPDT reversing switch can be used with my 296n pack?
> 
> Is it possible to reverse with only the 12V battery? and if so, what should I use the DPDT or Albright?
> 
> One more question if you don't mind, the Bubba 500's I am using, are they the best for my application?


1. Not clear what you are asking... a DPDT reversing switch can be used for any voltage/current you like, just use appropriately-rated contacts.

2. Possible? Sure. But if you're considering using a 12V battery to back the car up you might as well skip all the contactors and just push. It's a drag racer, not a daily driver, so who cares if it's fiddly?

3. The Bubba contactor is fine but I wouldn't have chosen it myself as it doesn't seem to have a very compelling $/A metric. I'd rather use (4) EV200 contactors in parallel for twice the current rating at half the price.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay, thanks!



Tesseract said:


> 1. Not clear what you are asking... a DPDT reversing switch can be used for any voltage/current you like, just use appropriately-rated contacts.
> 
> 2. Possible? Sure. But if you're considering using a 12V battery to back the car up you might as well skip all the contactors and just push. It's a drag racer, not a daily driver, so who cares if it's fiddly?
> 
> 3. The Bubba contactor is fine but I wouldn't have chosen it myself as it doesn't seem to have a very compelling $/A metric. I'd rather use (4) EV200 contactors in parallel for twice the current rating at half the price.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Reverse is a requirement for almost every racing class.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

What racing class might you be speaking of? NHRA, IHRA, ECEDRA or NEDRA? LOL. 

It really depends on the track you are racing at, some do not like team members pushing the car for reverse, some tracks don't care.

I am installing the Albright anyways, its only used for a few seconds. If she blows, I have a spare! 



EVfun said:


> Reverse is a requirement for almost every racing class.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> .
> I am installing the Albright anyways, its only used for a few seconds. If she blows, I have a spare!


Suit yourself, but the "typical" voltage drop across each contact in the SW202 (and there are 4 contacts in series at all times) is 40mV at 100A. So at 2000A you can expect to lose 0.8V per contact... or 6.4kW for the complete reversing contactor.

I have an unused SW200 (the NO contactor used in the SW202) and it measured 8mV at 10A across the two contacts, so, exactly what the datasheet says. An EV200 measured 1.5mV, or over 5x lower.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I will consider changing the contactor issue after the Florida Event, at this time I will be lucky to finish the car. Thanks. 



Tesseract said:


> Suit yourself, but the "typical" voltage drop across each contact in the SW202 (and there are 4 contacts in series at all times) is 40mV at 100A. So at 2000A you can expect to lose 0.8V per contact... or 6.4kW for the complete reversing contactor.
> 
> I have an unused SW200 (the NO contactor used in the SW202) and it measured 8mV at 10A across the two contacts, so, exactly what the datasheet says. An EV200 measured 1.5mV, or over 5x lower.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am now going to start posting pictures from different dates from the past three weeks. Future photo's will be dated and kept in order.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

Is there enough keeping the motors from twisting? Looks like there are four arms supporting the pair, with not a lot of triangulation? Sure could be exciting if that tore


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

I have no relevant experience, just another set of eyes....

Top is my bad drawing of what your current mount looks like to me. Arrow is pointed at where I'm concerned about it twisting till it snaps. I'd love to see video of that.

Bottom is my bad drawing of how I think I'd do it. Solid square tube all the way across doesn't have welds right at the motor to snap. And with those straps wrapped around the motor with the bolt in the top, it'll be really easy to brace them from rolling.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, that is the before pictures! The after pictures are coming in a few days.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Oh, yes this was the initial mounting. The final mounting system has more brackets and support cross members.



Darxus said:


> Is there enough keeping the motors from twisting? Looks like there are four arms supporting the pair, with not a lot of triangulation? Sure could be exciting if that tore


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I guess your not an artist, LOL. We have installed supports that connect on the bottom and the top, remember these pictures were taken weeks ago just as the first mounts were welded. I will get pictures of the final design.



Darxus said:


> I have no relevant experience, just another set of eyes....
> 
> Top is my bad drawing of what your current mount looks like to me. Arrow is pointed at where I'm concerned about it twisting till it snaps. I'd love to see video of that.
> 
> Bottom is my bad drawing of how I think I'd do it. Solid square tube all the way across doesn't have welds right at the motor to snap. And with those straps wrapped around the motor with the bolt in the top, it'll be really easy to brace them from rolling.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Well this is the skinny!

Additional batteries needed to complete the front battery box have not been delivered. I will be racing in Florida with a 210v 70ah pack (45c to 90c rating), the front pack will be ready for our second race of the season.

Knowing my two motors have max voltage of 170v each, and both Zilla's feed from one battery pack, what is your guys recommendations on settings?

Programing each Hairball:

Voltage - ?
Amperage - ?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Battery Menu:
a)BA v)LBV i)LBVI
600 176 180

Motor Menu:
a)Amp v)Volt i)RA r)RV
800 150 200 60

I'd get a run in like that and feel the launch, you will have a lot of torque with 2 motors getting 800 amps. Provided both motors look good in the brush rigging and commutator, the batteries are not flagging the low voltage alarm, and your not loosing the tires off the line it would be time to start turning things up. After all, that is only 240 HP to start, they will be wiping you up off the track if you don't start turning it up.  The thing is, if you turn it up to fast you might be wiping it up off the track.


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## redorblack (Feb 14, 2011)

Curious... have you ran those motors in yet to seat the brushes? I've heard that getting the new high performance brushes to seat takes a long time and failure to do so will cause a huge reduction in power capability.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

170 Volts is the max for a motor in perfect condition, with seated brushes and all. I'd suggest you start on the Zilla minimum allowed voltage and current, even if it is something like 36 Volts and 200 Amps.

I trust you are going to do some testing, wheels in the air if nothing else, before you hit the track?

The great Bill Dube, believe it or not, was an EV neophyte at one point. He zorched his motor because his brushes handn't seated yet and arcing liberated some copper.


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Well this is the skinny!
> 
> Additional batteries needed to complete the front battery box have not been delivered. I will be racing in Florida with a 210v 70ah pack (45c to 90c rating), the front pack will be ready for our second race of the season.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, I ran both motors for many hours 3 days in a row. The brushes should be seated, I hope.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

Why did you go with a Camaro intead of a top fuel type car?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I like the Camaro. 

I plan on building a few more with sponsorship funding. 

I told you guys I was going to 'BLOW UP' ev drag racing! I am just warming up! 

Some people talk to talk, I walk the walk. I am really having fun creating new ev's and plans for the future! 



Darxus said:


> Why did you go with a Camaro intead of a top fuel type car?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have also started on my Mitsubishi 3000GT for road racing. I want to race it at Limerock here in Connecticut. 

Looking for speed with endurance for the Mits. Must have a powerful pack that can run for many laps. Can't wait for the new Lipo's coming! Dow Kokam has some competition coming their way! 

BIG TABS, BIG WIRES, and MUCHO C'SSSSSSSSSS!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

When you post a bunch of photos at once, why don't you put them all in one post?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You really need a better camera, or a tripod to hold it still.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Looking like good progress. I notice that your crew is not real good at holding weight to a minimum. Little things like dodging conduit by moving the HV cables up inside the tunnel or the brackets in post 316 being made from angle iron. As an old aircooled guy I can be a PITA about weight (it's not like those things really have a lot of power.)


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

You wrote that these pics are a few weeks old - got anything current that we can drool over before you load up and head for Florida this weekend?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The crew has reduced the weight of the nose by hundreds of pounds, some parts must stay 'heavy duty', not everything can be aluminum. 

I have some bad news to report, I am currently posting from the VA Hospital in West Haven, CT. My father has run into complications after surgery and I must stay in CT for the next week or two. Our 'Palm Beach Event' has been rescheduled with the tracks permission. The new event date will be in April, 2011. I will have a new date and pictures soon.



EVfun said:


> Looking like good progress. I notice that your crew is not real good at holding weight to a minimum. Little things like dodging conduit by moving the HV cables up inside the tunnel or the brackets in post 316 being made from angle iron. As an old aircooled guy I can be a PITA about weight (it's not like those things really have a lot of power.)


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The crew has reduced the weight of the nose by hundreds of pounds, some parts must stay 'heavy duty', not everything can be aluminum.
> 
> I have some bad news to report, I am currently posting from the VA Hospital in West Haven, CT. My father has run into complications after surgery and I must stay in CT for the next week or two. Our 'Palm Beach Event' has been rescheduled with the tracks permission. The new event date will be in April, 2011. I will have a new date and pictures soon.



Really sorry to hear that about your Dad - I wish him the best.

It's always good to see when family comes first!

Later,
Keith


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The crew has reduced the weight of the nose by hundreds of pounds, some parts must stay 'heavy duty', not everything can be aluminum.
> 
> I have some bad news to report, I am currently posting from the VA Hospital in West Haven, CT. My father has run into complications after surgery and I must stay in CT for the next week or two. Our 'Palm Beach Event' has been rescheduled with the tracks permission. The new event date will be in April, 2011. I will have a new date and pictures soon.


Family comes first, I'm sorry he is having health issues and wish him the best. 

You know I'm mostly just giving you a hard time about weight, right? You will have the power to ignore a few pounds. Still, it's worth keeping in mind because it's usually cheaper to improve performance with weight reductions instead of power increases.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

_*Cool Lightning Bolt!*_


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

My old man is stable but pissed he wants out of the hospital.
He has some type of infection in his leg, and a large 'mass' in his shoulder which they are checking for cancer. They have installed the pick line again for medicine.

He is a retired Marine and does not like being told he must stay in the hospital. All he wants is his John Wayne movies at home. 

I thank you all for your support.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Referring to the pic with many cables coming off the fuse:

Is each cable individually fused?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The cables going to the fuse is from the bus bar on the battery pack. No fuses until reaches 2/0 cable. 



DavidDymaxion said:


> Referring to the pic with many cables coming off the fuse:
> 
> Is each cable individually fused?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*HUGE Lesson Learned! Donot over torque! $1200.00 Contactor.*










Shaved some material away to get more stud and soldered. Will apply epoxy next. Still works!


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Looking awesome! Thanks for the pics; it is inspiring.
corbin


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks! I will keep updating the site as the build completes. 



corbin said:


> Looking awesome! Thanks for the pics; it is inspiring.
> corbin


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

BTW Adam, great work. I've been following the build.

I hope everything works out for ya (crossing fingers).... I'm eager to see how those batteries perform.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you Travis.

I will be checking cell pack voltage between runs for balance. This series built pack was only to get the show started. The company is designing me specific cells in parallel packs for EV drag racing. The second pack will be much smaller in size (ah) and use a BMS system. I might become the East Coast dealer for these new Lipo cells. I will load the warehouse when full production starts.

We also have a new team:

http://teamhaiyinevracing.com/

Hey, I have a question for you, since Otmar is working with you guys when will sales start? and will I be able to buy just a hairball if needed?



frodus said:


> BTW Adam, great work. I've been following the build.
> 
> I hope everything works out for ya (crossing fingers).... I'm eager to see how those batteries perform.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks for the pics.

What is your firewall, battery box, and floor pan metal? Lee Hart recently cautioned that a lithium fire will burn up aluminum.

What spec did you build to for the floor?

An individual fuse for each battery string would be best. If one string shorts its neighbors could dump hundreds or even thousands of amps into it, and you wouldn't have a way to turn it off.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We are safe. The car has is all aluminum, but not worried about any fires. Our batteries are safe and we be checked betweeen every run. 



DavidDymaxion said:


> Thanks for the pics.
> 
> What is your firewall, battery box, and floor pan metal? Lee Hart recently cautioned that a lithium fire will burn up aluminum.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> We also have a new team:
> 
> http://teamhaiyinevracing.com/


The logo in the upper right hand corner looks like somebody did a horrible job of cutting out a background.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The logo is the last thing we are worried about. The car is a work of art. Thanks for your criticism, I will have an artist design a new logo just for you! 



Darxus said:


> The logo in the upper right hand corner looks like somebody did a horrible job of cutting out a background.


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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The logo is the last thing we are worried about. The car is a work of art. Thanks for your criticism, I will have an artist design a new logo just for you!


I didn't mean to be negative, just trying to help.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Hello Everyone!

We have been very busy finishing the Team Haiyin Camaro. We will be ready to race this saturday in Englishtown, NJ. My pack is currently 205V, still waiting for the additional batteries for the front pack, we should be okay. 

We have the final weight on the car, I will release it after our first race. Let's say some of you will not believe me when I post it. 

The current 70ah pack is only a proto-type to get the season started, we have a more advanced battery coming that will allow us to lower our weight even more. 

Our first gear ratio is a Motive Gear at 3.30, a gear designed for Nascar. Wish me luck!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We have been featured in an article on Gas2.0 

http://gas2.org/2011/04/05/car-feature-warp-factor-ii-the-81-chevy-camaro-ev-dragster/


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## hemank (Apr 6, 2011)

Wow Dude ! Nice stuff


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Congrats on the writeup. Nice to see some decent pictures finally


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## Rocketmaker10000 (Dec 7, 2008)

Fantastic Build!! I can't wait to see this car fly!!! See you at Englishtown!!! I'll be there but my car is a Lead Acid Lead Sled so my times will suck but at least I will make an Appearance!! Come on Everyone.....Show up and have fun!!!


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

How'd the car do?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

jeremyjs said:


> How'd the car do?


24 hours and no report. Come on. Let's see some some slips.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Video and slips are coming. I have an agreement with my sponsor on releasing information on the Camaro and batteries.

All I can say is I now have the fastest 'full-body' EV that races. Under 10 seconds, possibly under 9!  The car's weight is much lighter than expected, under 2400 lbs.  I must play games until I get permission to release info, most likely within days. I am running her again this weekend at Lebanon Valley in NY.

Has anyone tried to keep a 1981 Camaro with that kind of torque front wheels on the ground? It was wheeling! Wildest Ride I have ever raced on the track. Almost snapped my neck and pooped my shorts!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Earlier Picture:


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I should have her painted with Logo's before our Florida Event. Old School Cherry Red, black tin (we are powder coating all the tin black) with red rivets! Bad to the bone! 

This ain't no rice rocket! American Muscle with a kick in the tail from China! LOL.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Video and slips are coming. I have an agreement with my sponsor on releasing information on the Camaro and batteries.
> 
> All I can say is I now have the fastest 'full-body' EV that races. Under 10 seconds, possibly under 9!  The car's weight is much lighter than expected, under 2400 lbs.  I must play games until I get permission to release info, most likely within days. I am running her again this weekend at Lebanon Valley in NY.
> 
> Has anyone tried to keep a 1981 Camaro with that kind of torque front wheels on the ground? It was wheeling! Wildest Ride I have ever raced on the track. Almost snapped my neck and pooped my shorts!


You've got event pics that you can post though, right? How many EVs show up? Had to be some records set - inaugural event and all. 

Later,
Keith


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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Video and slips are coming. I have an agreement with my sponsor on releasing information on the Camaro and batteries.


That sounds really icky.



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Has anyone tried to keep a 1981 Camaro with that kind of torque front wheels on the ground? It was wheeling! Wildest Ride I have ever raced on the track. Almost snapped my neck and pooped my shorts!


It seems likely that there has never been a 1981 Camaro with that much torque and that little weight up front.

Were you planning to add batteries in the front?

Did you ever chat with Plasma boy?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sorry, but when you have sponsors you have contracts, they will be releasing the info first. You could have visited the event and watch first hand. 

Why would I 'chat' with Plasma Boy? We build full size Muscle Cars, not toys. 

Yes, we are adding a small battery pack upfront. The car's weight front to rear does not matter if you have the correct springs.  



Darxus said:


> That sounds really icky.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I will post pictures soon!



kek_63 said:


> You've got event pics that you can post though, right? How many EVs show up? Had to be some records set - inaugural event and all.
> 
> Later,
> Keith


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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Why would I 'chat' with Plasma Boy? We build full size Muscle Cars, not toys.


Because he has been doing what you're doing for _three decades_, everything I've heard indicates that his primary interest is growing the sport of electric racing, and your lack of respect for him, and failure to utilize the resource, is dumb.

Your achievement of the fastest full bodied electric car is neat, but I think not more impressive than him having the fastest street legal electric car.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You missed my point, we have nothing in common. He built a small Jap car, I built an American Muscle Car. I race my car, he does not race his car. He is West Coast, I am East Coast. I have nothing against the guy and wish him all the best. If I need to speak with any EV racer it will be Dennis Berube, not Plasma Boy.



Darxus said:


> Because he has been doing what you're doing for _three decades_, everything I've heard indicates that his primary interest is growing the sport of electric racing, and your lack of respect for him, and failure to utilize the resource, is dumb.
> 
> Your achievement of the fastest full bodied electric car is neat, but I think not more impressive than him having the fastest street legal electric car.


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## Darxus (May 10, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> You missed my point, we have nothing in common. He built a small Jap car, I built an American Muscle Car.


Bullshit. You're using the _same brand_ of motors. You're using Chinese batteries, his seem to come from an American company. The only thing "American Muscle Car" about your car is its skin. 



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I race my car, he does not race his car.


You're referring to him letting somebody else drive? 30 years he's been doing this. What were you doing 30 years ago? He's allowed.



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> He is West Coast, I am East Coast.


So?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Have a nice day Darxus, I have no time for your games. Give Plasma Boy a hug for me. 



Darxus said:


> Bullshit. You're using the _same brand_ of motors. You're using Chinese batteries, his seem to come from an American company. The only thing "American Muscle Car" about your car is its skin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I will post pictures soon!


How many cars showed up? How many times did you run your car? Any chance we will see pictures *before* the weekend? 

Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Keith,

The Camaro did a total of three runs, one at 1000amps, one at 1500amps, and the last at 2000amps. 

The problem with releasing info is my contract. I will explain since this ECEDRA EVENT has caused so much interest. In my contract (which I can only disclose tidbits) my sponsor has purchased the video/info rights to three events, New Jersey was taped by their production company. I cannot release New Jersey info before they release.

I am racing the car again this weekend in New York at Lebanon Valley, my sponsor will not have a crew on site (this is not a sponsored event), so I can release my own video and pictures. Sorry for the delay, it seems to be the main subject on the NEDRA Yahoo Group for some unknown reason. 

I hate being called a liar and a fake, are my pictures of the car not visible on this site? Do you guys really think I am full of it? Wake up guys, I am in this for the long haul. 

And Dube if you are reading this we are installing a parachute, but your post on NHRA rules for parachutes are off a little, maybe you should read up or shut up!



kek_63 said:


> How many cars showed up? How many times did you run your car? Any chance we will see pictures *before* the weekend?
> 
> Keith


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## Rocketmaker10000 (Dec 7, 2008)

This has got to be one of the fastest EVs in the world right now. Deserves full attention from the community and given some respect for pulling it off. Hats to you for making an exceptional EV. Others are obviously jealous of your success here. I would love to own this ride. With the touch of the foot pedal, the G forces must kick in!!! The awesome power of Electrical Energy just doing what it wants to do!!! Go POSITIVE TO NEGATIVE baby!!! Keep up the good work!!! Get building yours everybody else!!! Lets see more EVs racing and less time throwing stones online!! Help the SHEEPLE see the light!!!!


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

I was the one who posted the question in the NEDRA group because there had been some interest in your events. I thought that maybe someone might have attended. 

I am not calling you a fake Ron (it is quite obvious that you are throwing a lot of money into that car and it is progressing nicely), but until you show me pictures or video of a finished car running down the strip I will question your claims of sub 10s, just like I have questioned you many times before. You must admit that you have not yet shown us pictures of a car that will pass tech.

I hoped to see ECEDRA showing some recognition to the EVers that attended the EVent with some pictures or video. All I see is your unsubstantiated self-promotion. So I repeat my first question - How many cars showed up?

Keith


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

It is odd that someone so interested in promotion has no results to share. I've never heard of a race where results weren't posted and discussed immediately after, it's part of racing. In these days of ubiquitous recording devices your sponsor's demand to keep it secret seems strange to say the least. You might want to try and convince him otherwise.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You find it strange that a sponsor wants to release results from testing first? Wow, I thought some of you knew about business contracts. 



JRP3 said:


> It is odd that someone so interested in promotion has no results to share. I've never heard of a race where results weren't posted and discussed immediately after, it's part of racing. In these days of ubiquitous recording devices your sponsor's demand to keep it secret seems strange to say the least. You might want to try and convince him otherwise.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Just to give some of the 'newbies' and idea what type of amps my pack is capable of here is the calculations:

225V (yes I added one more string) 

70AH X 90 C-rating = 6300 amps (which holds well) 
70AH x 45 C-rating = 3150 amps continues. 

Want to watch this car in action, Lebanon Valley this Saturday!


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Keith,
> 
> The Camaro did a total of three runs, one at 1000amps, one at 1500amps, and the last at 2000amps.
> 
> ...


I called the track. The lady I talked to was also racing Saturday. She told me how many passes were made by electric cars.

Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Good, so we can put this to bed now. 



kek_63 said:


> I called the track. The lady I talked to was also racing Saturday. She told me how many passes were made by electric cars.
> 
> Keith


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Her recollection of Saturday afternoon appears to differ from yours.

Later,
Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Really. Now I know your here to post lies, is NEDRA that desperate? Please call the track manager for any info, don't listen to this cornball. I will no longer feed into your attack campaign. Have a nice day!



kek_63 said:


> Her recollection of Saturday afternoon appears to differ from yours.
> 
> Later,
> Keith


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Really. Now I know your here to post lies, is NEDRA that desperate? Please call the track manager for any info, don't listen to this cornball. I will no longer feed into your attack campaign. Have a nice day!


What lies? I am no more affiliated with NEDRA than you are. I am, however, interested in factual information about electric vehicles.

Did I not call the right track? I got the contact info from the ECEDRA site.

Raceway Park Dragstrip
230 Pension Road
Englishtown, NJ 07726-8462
(732) 446-7800

I don't think that I talked to the track manager. The PR person I talked to was at the track Saturday, though.


Keith


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> You find it strange that a sponsor wants to release results from testing first? Wow, I thought some of you knew about business contracts.


I thought it was a public race? I've never heard of a race where the results were secret, have you? Were the fans blind folded, with ear plugs? It doesn't make any sense. If it was secret testing that's one thing, if it was a public race then what's the big secret?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Yes, we are adding a small battery pack upfront. The car's weight front to rear does not matter if you have the correct springs.


Please explain the above statement?


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## Rocketmaker10000 (Dec 7, 2008)

Are you guys the drag racing police? What is all this detective work for anyway? Who cares this much about another guys EV efforts? I find this juvenile to say the least. Please note race times of your own cars instead? Show us pictures of your cars on this thread so we can see how fast your car is? Actually, I love seeing peoples times so if you have any of your own, lets see some of yours rather than attacking someone else's. I love the pictures of this EV and hope to see some video of it soon. I support all EV racers!!! Get on the track or keep to your voyeur status!!! Start your MOTORS!!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

We weren't the ones who started this thread about a drag car and hyped it for months. We are sincerely interested in the results, and I don't think anyone has ever heard of a public race where the results were kept secret. It's completely unusual, so don't try and pretend otherwise.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Hey all you guys. Ron is a promoter, he is promoting his car and his racing organization.

You all are all giving him a lot of free hype. 

Let it rest. The truth WILL come out and soon.

I think Ron is just baiting you all for the response to keep the interest up.

As far as his sponsors disclosure requirements, since it is probably a Chinese company who know how they would approach the information release. 

I love what he has done so far (although that battery scares me). Most of the stuff he has built into the car is top line, and the shop looks to be a good one. 

Why don't all of you folks give it a rest for a week or so?

Jim


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> We weren't the ones who started this thread about a drag car and hyped it for months. We are sincerely interested in the results,


Hey JR,

Did you notice the title to this thread? 1981 Camaro Dragster Project - Official Tread - *All Info*! "All Info" I guess means different things to different folks


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> As far as his sponsors disclosure requirements, since it is probably a Chinese company who know how they would approach the information release.


I just assumed the results of a public race would be public, and figured someone may have actually been a spectator at the race to tell us the results. They would not be bound by any sponsor agreement. Nor would I think the ECEDRA organization be prevented by a team's sponsor from posting the results of an event.


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

Regardless of how testing went or if it is considered secret info, we should have some info this coming weekend. The new times should also overshadow any that he has currently since it sounds like it will already have more power, and every time the car is raced he will have more knowledge to be able to dial in the car. So I say we all sit around for a few days and then see how it performs. In the mean time instead of trying to claw out info it seems he is not going to post, how about we just discuss what we think the thing will run ?

Here I can start off. Assuming that there is no equipment failure, I can't see how the car will not be deep into the 9's. Its pretty much the same weight of White Zombie, twice the amps, and alot more tire. Now it seems he is down on his target voltage so not quite twice the power, but with so many amps and the traction to use them on the low end this thing should come out of the hole quick.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

My guess is he pulled a great 60' time and something broke or a great 1/8th and fell flat because of the lack of battery. All this may have/should run, sub 10 second/maybe sub 9 second, my sponsor won't let me say stuff reeks of something not going well. I guess since no one will say otherwise, I am as good a source as any.  Hey Lithu-prove me wrong!


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I would be nervous about going for the 9's so soon. You've taken a car designed to have about 700 pounds in the nose and greatly lightened it and changed the weight distribution. Going 1000, 1500, and then 2000 Amps seems a rushed schedule. I would urge ramping things up more slowly.

BYU flipped their electric land speed car on its 3rd run this last summer.

I saw a lady park a nice borrowed Honda S2000 on top of a fence on her first lap with it -- this was after having spun it twice earlier in the lap. This was her first time with rear wheel drive. She was an experienced front wheel drive autocrosser.

One of my managers is on a Reno air racing team. One of the guys did an emergency landing with no damage. The other destroyed his plane, he was lucky to live. Both had little testing time.

Cro's friend here on DIYelectriccar flipped his new car on the 2nd lap on its first track day.

Anyway, please consider working up in speed more slowly -- you want the car to last more than a day. People will still be impressed if you do 13's, then 12's, then 11's, etc. You'll never live it down if you crash or burn this soon.

Rocketmaker10000: You/Ron imply the world's fastest full bodied EV just ran record fast on its first outing -- it really isn't so strange folks are anxious to hear details about that!


Rocketmaker10000 said:


> Are you guys the drag racing police? What is all this detective work for anyway? Who cares this much about another guys EV efforts? I find this juvenile to say the least. Please note race times of your own cars instead? Show us pictures of your cars on this thread so we can see how fast your car is? Actually, I love seeing peoples times so if you have any of your own, lets see some of yours rather than attacking someone else's. I love the pictures of this EV and hope to see some video of it soon. I support all EV racers!!! Get on the track or keep to your voyeur status!!! Start your MOTORS!!!!


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

Salty EV said:


> Regardless of how testing went or if it is considered secret info, we should have some info this coming weekend. The new times should also overshadow any that he has currently since it sounds like it will already have more power, and every time the car is raced he will have more knowledge to be able to dial in the car. So I say we all sit around for a few days and then see how it performs. In the mean time instead of trying to claw out info it seems he is not going to post, how about we just discuss what we think the thing will run ?
> 
> Here I can start off. Assuming that there is no equipment failure, I can't see how the car will not be deep into the 9's. Its pretty much the same weight of White Zombie, twice the amps, and a lot more tire. Now it seems he is down on his target voltage so not quite twice the power, but with so many amps and the traction to use them on the low end this thing should come out of the hole quick.


I agree there should be something soon enough. Regardless of your personal feeling toward him it seems he has spent the money and the time to make a top notch electric drag car. Just waiting a little longer won't hurt anyone. No need for personal attacks.

The pics of the build alone are worth a lot of credibility. We should see slips soon enough. If his sponsors want to suppress this past weekends inaugural passes for whatever reason he saying we'll see something this coming weekend. That's quick enough for me.


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## algea07 (Oct 1, 2010)

the car looks sweet, i can wait to see a video of it, doing a wheelie down the track.

i don't understand why everyone is so quick to point the finger, he's clearly put alot of time effort and money into this project. he's earnt more credibility then 99% of the ev'ers out there, where's white zombies build thread?

i like how when most people are shuffling there feet trying to decide if the they should use a zilla or a soliton, he's like stuff it give me 2 zillas


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

algea07 said:


> the car looks sweet, i can wait to see a video of it, doing a wheelie down the track.
> 
> i don't understand why everyone is so quick to point the finger, he's clearly put alot of time effort and money into this project. he's earnt more credibility then 99% of the ev'ers out there, *where's white zombies build thread?
> *
> i like how when most people are shuffling there feet trying to decide if the they should use a zilla or a soliton, he's like stuff it give me 2 zillas



The White Zombie predates this forum by a few years.

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sorry but there is nothing wrong with those of us excited to see the results of the race, for all the vehicles that were there. We don't have that many EV races happening so when there is one we are interested. I've just never heard of a race where all results and press were blacked out afterwards. It is completely out of the ordinary and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am not too sure about that, we have many new members with very fast cars. They will be at our races. I do think I have a chance!
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *etischer*
> ...


I am interested to know who else was racing and what their results were. The promotion of a racing event doesn't (shouldn't) stop at the ticket counter. I'm sure that your ECEDRA members are anxious to see their names on the record-holders page.

I make no apologies for asking Ron for proof to back up his claim of "under 10 seconds, possibly under 9" within the first 3 runs of a new build. That would be a very impressive feat.


Later,
Keith


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I said that jokingly since his team was, and still is the only team listed on his "International Electric Drag Race Association" webpage, it is fastest by default. I give him props for following though, and having a dragster that looks promising.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Still nothing? Anyone in or around New York plan on going to their test and tune tomorrow at Lebanon Valley Dragway?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Rocketmaker10000 said:


> I love the pictures of this EV and hope to see some video of it soon.


Hey Rocket,

Weren't you there? 


Rocketmaker10000 said:


> Fantastic Build!! I can't wait to see this car fly!!! See you at Englishtown!!! I'll be there...........


Why don't you tell us the truth? What were the times? How did your rig run?

Regards,

major


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Lebanon Valley rained out today.

Guess we'll have to wait for the Team Haiyin press release.

Later,
Keith


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

kek_63 said:


> Lebanon Valley rained out today.
> 
> Guess we'll have to wait for the Team Haiyin press release.
> 
> ...


The rainout was Sunday not Sat. Sat was said to be 41 degrees and very windy. Car was a no-show according to facebook.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

kek_63 said:


> Lebanon Valley rained out today.
> 
> Guess we'll have to wait for the Team Haiyin press release.
> 
> ...


What happened to that pic link you had earlier.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

I pulled it after I got the rainout reply from the track manager (didn't notice his reply was for Sunday).

Lebanon Valley Pic Link - http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/

Later,
Keith


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> The rainout was Sunday not Sat. Sat was said to be 41 degrees and very windy. Car was a no-show according to facebook.


Which facebook page did you see this on?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

rochesterricer said:


> Which facebook page did you see this on?


Lebanon Valley Dragway has a page.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Who said I was the first? I am passionate for ev racing. I may not have driven any of my conversions 'one inch', but I did/doing what I claimed I would do! Some talk the talk and some walk the walk, my friend, I handle business. Stop hating and build your own dragster.
> 
> What will be your next complaints after March 26th, 2011??? The color? Now do I really need to come on this board on March 27th, 2011 and use the term, I TOLD YOU SO! I hate these games you guys play on this board, but it's amusing!


Checks Calendar-hmmmmmm.........................you told me so?


Seriously man, you have "Talked the talk" but you have yet to "Walk the walk" boasting time is over, put up or shut up.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Guys,

Relax, you guys need downers or something. We have been bringing in some good times, but having problems also. We raced Sunday at Lebanon Valley for practice runs, the events were rained out, we arrived later in the day and ran test results. The track was closed to the public. You can see the pictures and video on the ECEDRA website. 

Our problem has been one hairball it keeps acting up and killing one motor. It happened during a run, it happened on the start, some times I cannot even get the other motor to turn on. We have kept this silent trying to repair it on are own, but I ran out of solutions. I need a new hairball. The only code that pops up is 1224, but one hairball stays on and the other shuts off, it makes no sense? The battery voltage is around 13.5v, so the code is false.

The pack at 6300 amps, 205v only loss 8.7 volts after four passes with the controllers set at 1500 amps and 170 volts, but one motor kept shutting down. No lie, with one motor only, I still finish the 1/4 mile over 120mph and pulling the other 'off' motor.

I am curious to know if I added a cat 5 splitter can one hairball operate two controllers?

The car is scary fast, tires broke loose half way down the track a few times and scared the crap out of me. Very hard slowing down after the 1/4 mile, will need a parachute soon.

Anyone have a hairball? We are leaving for Florida in a few days.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

So where are the videos?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I posted one on the ECEDRA website, and more will be sent to me tomorrow. More pictures coming also. Now, Mr. Batterypowertoad, who the fuxx are you and why are you up my azz? 


Batterypoweredtoad said:


> So where are the videos?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I posted one on the ECEDRA website, and more will be sent to me tomorrow. More pictures coming also. Now, Mr. Batterypowertoad, who the fuxx are you and why are you up my azz?


I am one of the many people who want you to post proof of how bad ass you claim to be. Link us to the video of your 10 second run and you can enjoy the respect you claim you deserve.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Your a funny dude or kid. Buy the tickets or build the car! 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I am one of the many people who want you to post proof of how bad ass you claim to be. Link us to the video of your 10 second run and you can enjoy the respect you claim you deserve.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Your a funny dude or kid. Buy the tickets or build the car!


or post proof or shut up.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Another computer gangsta! LOL

What a joke you are, get a life. What are you 16?



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> or post proof or shut up.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Another computer gangsta! LOL
> 
> What a joke you are, get a life. What are you 16?


So where is this video?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

I will worship your greatness when you provide me evidence of a 10 second run (not even requesting 9 or 8).


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Listen kid, if both hairballs are working this weekend, you and about 1000 fans will watch me race in Palm Beach Dragway. Until then go play somehwere else. 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I will worship your greatness when you provide me evidence of a 10 second run (not even requesting 9 or 8).


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Listen kid, if both hairballs are working this weekend, you and about 1000 fans will watch me race in Palm Beach Dragway. Until then go play somehwere else.


Fun troubleshooting a car isn't it? Gee it's surprising you haven't been able to back up your predictions or claims yet.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

What's the problem, is Palm Beach too far away for you? I have built and raced what I posted. No shame, the proof is in black and white. 

I admit, this hairball issue is a pain in the azz. With both motors she's breaks loose all over the track with too much throttle, when I did runs with one motor she started slower but still finished very fast. I will have another hairball before I leave for Florida, should be one hell of a race day. 

My team member will have additional video's tomorrow from the outside and inside view. We mounted a camera inside. Yes, we went wild on Sunday. 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Fun troubleshooting a car isn't it? Gee it's surprising you haven't been able to back up your predictions or claims yet.


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> What's the problem, is Palm Beach too far away for you? I have built and raced what I posted. No shame, the proof is in black and white.
> 
> I admit, this hairball issue is a pain in the azz. With both motors she's breaks loose all over the track with too much throttle, when I did runs with one motor she started slower but still finished very fast. I will have another hairball before I leave for Florida, should be one hell of a race day.
> 
> My team member will have additional video's tomorrow from the outside and inside view. We mounted a camera inside. Yes, we went wild on Sunday.


You claim 10's, 9's, or 8's, but your sponsor won't let you show it. You claim a video is on you site of how great it went at Lebanon, yet no one can find it. You have yet to provide anyone any proof of anything but your willingness to talk shit and buy lots of stuff. Getting established and getting respect requires more than money and shit talking. Tell the truth about whats really happening or quit bragging. Put up or shut up.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

> I need a new hairball. The only code that pops up is 1224, but one hairball stays on and the other shuts off, it makes no sense? The battery voltage is around 13.5v, so the code is false.


I would chase the 12 volt wiring again, it can be a PITA. I would check the length of the hairball ground wires, does the one cutting out have a longer ground wire? I don't know if it would cause that error, but Otmar is real specific about the maximum ground length. 

If the problem is inside the hairball it could be as simple as a bad solder joint. I wouldn't be afraid to look over the circuit board inside and try to follow the "SLI +14 in" and "Key input" circuit paths. I cannot offer more guidance than looking, because I haven't needed to open mine. 

I'm pretty sure you cannot run 2 Zillas with one hairball. I've never seen it done. It would required a more complex communication setup that required to get 2 devices to talk.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Guys,
> 
> Relax, you guys need downers or something. We have been bringing in some good times, but having problems also. We raced Sunday at Lebanon Valley for practice runs, the events were rained out, we arrived later in the day and ran test results. The track was closed to the public. You can see the pictures and video on the ECEDRA website.


Actually I can't. Could you provide a direct link because I can't find the pictures and video on the ECEDRA website.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Never mind, found it:


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

That was with only one motor, the second shut off. I have better video coming later today.



JRP3 said:


> Never mind, found it:


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you. It cannot be the ground wire, I switched hairball positions and still the same. I will open it up? 



EVfun said:


> I would chase the 12 volt wiring again, it can be a PITA. I would check the length of the hairball ground wires, does the one cutting out have a longer ground wire? I don't know if it would cause that error, but Otmar is real specific about the maximum ground length.
> 
> If the problem is inside the hairball it could be as simple as a bad solder joint. I wouldn't be afraid to look over the circuit board inside and try to follow the "SLI +14 in" and "Key input" circuit paths. I cannot offer more guidance than looking, because I haven't needed to open mine.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you cannot run 2 Zillas with one hairball. I've never seen it done. It would required a more complex communication setup that required to get 2 devices to talk.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Excuse my ignorance, what is a PITA? 



EVfun said:


> I would chase the 12 volt wiring again, it can be a PITA. QUOTE]


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Pain In The Ass


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

LMFAO! 



JRP3 said:


> Pain In The Ass


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm not sure I like the color.


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Anything for you, what is your color pink? 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I'm not sure I like the color.


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

That photo is somewhat blurry, but it sure looks like a break at the joint. Normal solder joints should be silvery and shiny. Anythinhg else would be suspect.

Dawid


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am screwed! I soldered the connection and connected the hairball and smoke. It reburned the connection. I need a hairball.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Anything for you, what is your color pink?


Sure thing, why not. Since you have yet to prove it fast, might as well make it pretty.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Lithu-I am busting your balls because you keep boasting about accomplishments without backing them up. If you had said after your first outing "The car ran a x.x 60' time and carried the front wheels the whole way. My experience says it should run X.X in the 1/4" or "We ended up running on one motor and still put the car deep into the 11's so it should run X.X with a full pack and two motors" we would be excited. Instead you said-guys it ran 10's or faster but I can't tell you because it would anger little baby Jesus. That reeks of BS.

You are building what should legitimately be a very fast car and we are all interested in how it will do. You seem to be having they typical issues everyone has testing and tuning a car. This is what most of us expected out of a car that was put together in a mad rush. It even looks like it wasn't anything you guys built that broke. That in itself is impressive. We will follow the process anxiously, hoping you accomplish what the build was set out to do. We will even feel bad for you when something goes wrong. We support your efforts, we just do not like feeling like we are being bamboozled. 

If you can't get another hairball in time for the next outing, do you have whats needed to wire the one you have to do series/parallel switching?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

When you post civil I will respond with respect. The numbers the car ran at Englishtown were on the level, no 'bamboozling' about it. I did start to run into this problem at the end of my day in NJ. It has now progressed into a broken hairball. 

I have a second used hairball which I purchased from Mogilicki (my spelling may be wrong) and it also will not work, but it is producing a different problem and error code. This hairball will not open the contactor and gives an error code of 1132? 

In regards to wiring for series/parallel switching, I can but do not want to. Time is short and do not want to get involved with all that wiring. I will pay someone to borrow a hairball for this weekend, any takers? 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Lithu-I am busting your balls because you keep boasting about accomplishments without backing them up. If you had said after your first outing "The car ran a x.x 60' time and carried the front wheels the whole way. My experience says it should run X.X in the 1/4" or "We ended up running on one motor and still put the car deep into the 11's so it should run X.X with a full pack and two motors" we would be excited. Instead you said-guys it ran 10's or faster but I can't tell you because it would anger little baby Jesus. That reeks of BS.
> 
> You are building what should legitimately be a very fast car and we are all interested in how it will do. You seem to be having they typical issues everyone has testing and tuning a car. This is what most of us expected out of a car that was put together in a mad rush. It even looks like it wasn't anything you guys built that broke. That in itself is impressive. We will follow the process anxiously, hoping you accomplish what the build was set out to do. We will even feel bad for you when something goes wrong. We support your efforts, we just do not like feeling like we are being bamboozled.
> 
> If you can't get another hairball in time for the next outing, do you have whats needed to wire the one you have to do series/parallel switching?


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Not much point in posting Civil or otherwise. To me your sacred Englishtown claims will remain untrue until they can be proven otherwise. Until new information is released I will quit posting regarding those claims.

I can't blame you on the lack of desire to go S/P. You have built a TwinZilla car, it should be run as a TwinZilla car. Single Zilla S/P cars are old news.


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

Naturally this would be extremely dangerous considering how strong your pack is, but since the hairball is down for the count, imagine this thing with a pure contactor setup . That would not be a fun 90c+ ride though if you couldn't get those bubba's open, who knows how many 1000's of amps you would pull if those batteries were essentially shorted to the motors.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am curious to know what signals the hairball sends to the controller in the Cat 5? It is easy to buy a Cat 5 splitter, but do not want to hurt 'good' hairball and 'good' controllers.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

1132 error code is the controller did not communicate during precharge. Since you know another Hairball doesn't report that code it would seem that the Hairball with that error has a problem receiving communications. 

This gets back to why I'm pretty sure 1 Hairball cannot run 2 Zillas. There is some type of communication protocol between the hairball and controller. I'm guessing built for just 2 devices as usually a bit more control is required if you want more than 2 devices talking. I don't know the details of how they talk, but I would bet that is proprietary to Cafe Electric. After all, with that knowledge someone could make a Zilla do all kinds of things it's not designed to do.

It seems you have 2 different hairballs that are broken in different ways. Perhaps that does add up to one working hairball. In the future, if you see what appears to be bad solder joints I would recommend removing the solder first. It lets you look at the board traces to help avoid bridges. Still, a little smoke out of a hairball is not the worst outcome. If it smoked you are likely to be able to identify what took a hit. 

I would continue to try and talk to Otmar over at Cafe Electric. You may try to contact Manzanita Micro as well, since they are the company that will be building the Zilla again.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am curious to know what signals the hairball sends to the controller in the Cat 5? It is easy to buy a Cat 5 splitter, but do not want to hurt 'good' hairball and 'good' controllers.


its not ethernet, it won't work.

its a proprietary RS485 comm protocol


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks Travis,

Please inform me when you guys start selling Zilla's.



frodus said:


> its not ethernet, it won't work.
> 
> its a proprietary RS485 comm protocol


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

The answer to this question is probably common knowledge to everyone else but me. Ill probably look foolish but I gotta ask it.

Will a Zilla run as a plain vanilla controller without the hair ball?

You know nothing fancy, step on the go pedal and the vehicle moves and let up and it slows down?


----------



## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, I have spoken with many today, that code means bad news and the hairball needs to see Otmar. The other hairball is cooked. So, I have one hairball that is not mine and works just fine. When I arrive in FL my friends in the orange state will supply me with the second hairball I need. 
I will be racing with two motors at full 2000amps this Saturday in Palm Beach. 

I am still looking to purchase any hairballs available, seems they need to be in stock for racers! 



EVfun said:


> 1132 error code is the controller did not communicate during precharge. Since you know another Hairball doesn't report that code it would seem that the Hairball with that error has a problem receiving communications.
> 
> This gets back to why I'm pretty sure 1 Hairball cannot run 2 Zillas. There is some type of communication protocol between the hairball and controller. I'm guessing built for just 2 devices as usually a bit more control is required if you want more than 2 devices talking. I don't know the details of how they talk, but I would bet that is proprietary to Cafe Electric. After all, with that knowledge someone could make a Zilla do all kinds of things it's not designed to do.
> 
> ...


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Will a Zilla run as a plain vanilla controller without the hair ball?
> 
> You know nothing fancy, step on the go pedal and the vehicle moves and let up and it slows down?


I don't know for sure but I'm assuming the power components are in the one box and all the controls are in the hairball. Without the hairball you have no control, so it would probably be like an on off switch, no better than a contactor.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Went and answered my own question, dug around and found the old cafe electric site. 

It does state that a hairball is required. I somehow got the impression that the hairball was a fancy* extra* logger and control setup.

Sorry to bother you all. Should have thought about the old site sooner.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

No bother, great question. That is how we all learn. 



Jimdear2 said:


> Went and answered my own question, dug around and found the old cafe electric site.
> 
> It does state that a hairball is required. I somehow got the impression that the hairball was a fancy* extra* logger and control setup.
> 
> Sorry to bother you all. Should have thought about the old site sooner.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Here you go. Just put the part of the address after the "=" sign between the youtube brackets, in this case f99_fjiLQXQ.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

It sounds like something is thumping, any idea what that is?


JRP3 said:


> Here you go. Just put the part of the address after the "=" sign between the youtube brackets, in this case f99_fjiLQXQ.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

It's from the tires, everything is fine. They wrinkle when spinning. This burnout was with only one motor at 1500amps 170volts. Everything is tight and working pefectly. My chassis guy has now adjusted the rear four link perfectly, when we first raced the car I reduced throttle then hammered it again around 70 mph and the tires broke loose, he fixed that problem. 

I have a hairball I need in FL, we are leaving tonight. I just received my new Manzanita Micro charger, I needed a charger fully adjustable to different pack sizes. 

Wish me luck guys many fans in FL. 



DavidDymaxion said:


> It sounds like something is thumping, any idea what that is?


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

You tend to notice a lot of new noises when your drivetrain is nearly silent. A lot of people don't realize how noisy a motorcycle chain can be until they ride an electric motorcycle.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> It sounds like something is thumping, any idea what that is?


Sounds like the driveshaft... 

I had also a lot of trouble solving vibration problems. Wayland had the same problems too


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

crushing the rubber bushing ? MB uses special bushing on high output AMG's.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Are you going to share the results of the FL event when it's over?


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

A full bodied electric (an electric VW bug) in Europe just broke into the 9's, exciting times!

Update: 9.51 seconds at 135.65 mph


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> A full bodied electric (an electric VW bug) in Europe just broke into the 9's, exciting times!
> 
> Update: 9.51 seconds at 135.65 mph


thanks, D
any details, info, links?


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

gor said:


> thanks, D
> any details, info, links?



Go to www.nedra.com more detail there!


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## ...Audi-R-Zero... (Apr 24, 2011)

DavidDymaxion said:


> A full bodied electric (an electric VW bug) in Europe just broke into the 9's, exciting times!
> 
> Update: 9.51 seconds at 135.65 mph


video is?? pancake...


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnd....................what happened at the event?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*First Run at Palm Beach!*
Second motor died at launch.










*Second Run at Palm Beach Drag Way!*
Second motor engaged but dropped out around 1/8 mile. When run was over Steve Clunn and I started to diagnose the problem?









*Third Run at Palm Beach Dragway*
Second motor disengage at launch again!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

If you have drag racing experience the second run looks like I sand bagged (let of the gas) at the 1/8, but I did not, the hairball keeps disengaging at different times. If you know how to calculate ET's you would agree with me that the car runs 9.8's to 10.2's if both motors stay fully engaged.

The 1/8 mile time is excellent (6.8 seconds), but the car coasted after that only gaining 13.58 mph after the 1/8. If I can repair the problem and keep both motors fully engaged the entire 1/4 mile she will hit the 9's, no doubt.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We have now tried three different hairballs and the same problem. This is our next step in diagnosing this issue:

New toggle switches for the Hairball voltage, maybe the cheap Advance Auto switches are loosing a connection from vibration? Will install race quality switches this week. Any loss of 12v to the hairball will kill a contactor.

Install a voltage meter and amperage meter so I can watch at full draw.

Install the front battery pack with an additional 110 volts. These runs were raced with the pack at 190 volts. The Zilla's were set for 2000 amps each and 170 volts a motor.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

the times are acceptable for what they are: debugging. 

What impressed ME was that you posted the tickets online.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

piotrsko said:


> the times are acceptable for what they are: debugging.
> 
> What impressed ME was that you posted the tickets online.


I have been honest from the start. Will release information when I can. Everyone can now see with their own eyes.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> the times are acceptable for what they are: debugging.
> 
> What impressed ME was that you posted the tickets online.


Yep, 11.2 is impressive for the first documented drag runs. I look forward to your first display of a 9 second slip.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I see you are still interested in my runs and my proof. I would like to throw some drag racing questions at you and see if you can answer them, are you willing? 

I already knows the correct answers just looking to see your experience in drag racing! 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Yep, 11.2 is impressive for the first documented drag runs. I look forward to your first display of a 9 second slip.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice, hope you get the glitches worked out.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I see you are still interested in my runs and my proof. I would like to throw some drag racing questions at you and see if you can answer them, are you willing?
> 
> I already knows the correct answers just looking to see your experience in drag racing!



I have posted proof of every claim I have made. You have not. That said, the proof you have posted is impressive. I await more.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I have posted proof of every claim I have made. You have not. That said, the proof you have posted is impressive. I await more.


You did not answer my question? 
The proof of all my claims is based on the 60' time, the 1/8 time and the 1/8 mph. Any experienced drag racer will understand what I am proving buy pointing out these important figures. You my lost Toad have no clue. 

When we raced at Englishtown we also had Zilla/motor problems, all my claims are based on 1/8 mile figures. If the car can do a 60' 1.5, a 6.8 1/8 @ 93.43 mph, then it can do low 10's or high 9's. 

Keep watching your learning!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Nice, hope you get the glitches worked out.


Thank you!


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> You did not answer my question?
> The proof of all my claims is based on the 60' time, the 1/8 time and the 1/8 mph. Any experienced drag racer will understand what I am proving buy pointing out these important figures. You my lost Toad have no clue.
> 
> When we raced at Englishtown we also had Zilla/motor problems, all my claims are based on 1/8 mile figures. If the car can do a 60' 1.5, a 6.8 1/8 @ 93.43 mph, then it can do low 10's or high 9's.
> ...



Hahahahahahahah-funny stuff.  You claimed you couldn't prove what your car did because of your sponsors gag order, but in reality you just lied. The car didn't run 10's, 9's, or 8's like you claimed, you were just pretty sure it could. Jesus man, you are building a bad ass car, don't ruin its greatness with mountains of bullshit.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Congrats on the results - your 1/8 is a very close match to John Metric's LiPo powered Fiero. He's running low 11s as well. He posted some insight into the difference between Warp and Impulse motors on the NEDRA Yahoo group. He thinks that he might need a 2nd gear.

Is Haiyin still not letting you release results from Englishtown? I still don't get it - why would they want be the first to release results you obtained with Turnigy (not theirs) batteries?

Later,
Keith


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Your posted 60' and 1/8 mile times are very close to John's times with the Lithium powered White Zombie. He hits those times about 10 mph faster at the 1/8th and still only runs low 10's (for now.)

Running into the rpm/power wall has been a constant issue for the electrics. It has been a big part of the drive to higher voltages to get the motors to take amps at higher rpms. The White Zombie has been running taller (numerically lower) gears in several steps to need less rpm at the end of the 1/4 mile.

You certainly are off to a great start. I'm not sure I'm seeing 9 second performance here, but I don't know how much farther you have to turn up the screws. I think you will need the extra voltage (and keep both Zillas running, of course) to get into the 9's easily. 

Now about that persistent Zilla problem. You proposed some logical first steps to a solution. After that you may have to try re-routing significant parts of the 12 volt wiring. At the bleeding upper power levels (especially with 2 Z2k's) there have been noise issues with some installs. You are switching unholy amounts of power at fairly high frequencies and this can result in weird phantom issues that can be trial and error to kill. 

One other simple thing you may be able to try is to open up the ferrite loop on the cables between the Hairballs and the Zillas and add one more turn of the ethernet cable through them. Try to keep those cables from getting to close to the motors, motor cables, or the bus bar end of the Zillas.


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

Hi Ron,
Great start. 
I know you want nothing to do with NEDRA, but I looked at their record book. Your ECEDRA class RC seems to match their MC. You don't specify voltages [yet], but by their classes, you would be in class C. The present record for MC/C is "Ice Breaker" at 11.57 second which matches your single motor runs. Your second run actually matches the MC/B record held by "Maniac Mazda".
Keep it up.
Gerhard
PS, are you using a DC-DC without an aux battery: you might have some sag. G.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Pretty sure I saw a 12V battery in some of the pictures.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Hahahahahahahah-funny stuff.  You claimed you couldn't prove what your car did because of your sponsors gag order, but in reality you just lied. The car didn't run 10's, 9's, or 8's like you claimed, you were just pretty sure it could. Jesus man, you are building a bad ass car, don't ruin its greatness with mountains of bullshit.


..Hey,Toad what is your problem!!! Did I meet you at West Palm this week end!!...You are from Gainesville....right


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ..Hey,Toad what is your problem!!! Did I meet you at West Palm this week end!!...You are from Gainesville....right


No problems. He lied and is backpedaling and frankly it surprises me that I am the only one who is calling him on it. His car should be spectacular, but he should prove it instead of just saying it is and expecting adulation.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> No problems. He lied and is backpedaling and frankly it surprises me that I am the only one who is calling him on it. His car should be spectacular, but he should prove it instead of just saying it is and expecting adulation.


...We will see May 7 in Lebanon Valley!!! As a man that has building Drag cars for the past 20 years, and with the time slips, And i was there, 9's are not a problem.....And I want the go over a 100 mph in 1/8....so we can start a new club! ..forget about that that 100 mph in the 1/4.....that's for girls!!!!!LOL!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

And for the record I was not in English Town ... But I was in Lebanon for some more shake down passes!!...Ron, has been a strait shooter from day one when i got involved with this project!!!!Thank you Ron for the opportunity.... To what I believe will set the world on FIRE!!!


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

I truly hope he does well. I congratulate him, and you, on the great 1/8th mile times, the great 1/4 mile times on 1 motor down the second half, and I congratulate you both on an impressive whirlwind build. I do really want to see this car succeed. What I don't want is to be told the car already did something when it didn't.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I truly hope he does well. I congratulate him, and you, on the great 1/8th mile times, the great 1/4 mile times on 1 motor down the second half, and I congratulate you both on an impressive whirlwind build. I do really want to see this car succeed. What I don't want is to be told the car already did something when it didn't.


 Why thank you...How do u know, it did not do it???


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

What the hell is going on over here? LOL. 

Sean, how did you find this forum, did I tell you? Holy sheeet be easy on these guys, they are not drag racers, I know you roll hot and heavy. Throw some facts at them about drag racing I guarantee they will get lost in the 1/8 mile calculations and hook-ups! 

I have very little time today, but one very important fact is I hit them times with only a 180 volt pack, guess what it was sagging to? 

What will happen when my additional batteries arrive and it sags only down to 240v ? 

New 300 volts pack with two motors cranking 100%, who knows what this baby will hit!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

And further more...I did not want Ron to post up any time slips and even the weight of the car!!!Even though he could not for some contract agreement garage!!Want to know why? As a street racer, Do you know how much money i could make on the side in the streets racing this gadget!!! If ever pulled this wind up toy out of the trailer with my rep i would get laugh at!! But guess what, (I would tell them to put your MONEY were your Mouth is!!)....... its a $1000 plus to even talk to me!!..crack his ass ,go to a strip club and by the crew BJ's!!!! LOL!! everybody gets one!!!LOL!!! Have a nice day!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

In reality your just an asshole. Please show your face at one of our events so i can fix your big mouth problem. 

Sorry guys this guy is an asshole. 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Hahahahahahahah-funny stuff.  You claimed you couldn't prove what your car did because of your sponsors gag order, but in reality you just lied. The car didn't run 10's, 9's, or 8's like you claimed, you were just pretty sure it could. Jesus man, you are building a bad ass car, don't ruin its greatness with mountains of bullshit.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Must go guys, business!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

No you did not tell me!! I Google 81 EV Camaro... when we got home!!! no wonder you were driving me crazy!!LOL!!! I did not know these guys were roughing up the suspect!!!I will leave them alone!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

If anyone needs help with deciphering a time slip will happy to oblige them!!


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> In reality your just an asshole. Please show your face at one of our events so i can fix your big mouth problem.
> 
> Sorry guys this guy is an asshole.


What can I say, your lack of honesty brings out the best in me. I'm glad you have decided to be more open with your results as of late.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

GerhardRP said:


> Hi Ron,
> Great start.
> I know you want nothing to do with NEDRA, but I looked at their record book. Your ECEDRA class RC seems to match their MC. You don't specify voltages [yet], but by their classes, you would be in class C. The present record for MC/C is "Ice Breaker" at 11.57 second which matches your single motor runs. Your second run actually matches the MC/B record held by "Maniac Mazda".
> Keep it up.
> ...


...This is what we need some positivity!!! THANK YOU!!!


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> In reality your just an asshole. Please show your face at one of our events so i can fix your big mouth problem.
> 
> Sorry guys this guy is an asshole.


The world is a harsh judge man. If you put claims out there and don't back them up you can't expect all smiles and pats on the back. By "fix your big mouth problem" I assume you mean you are going to calmly explain to me why I am incorrect in my assumptions and give me a big hug afterwards?


----------



## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

SPL_PIMP said:


> And further more...I did not want Ron to post up any time slips and even the weight of the car!!!Even though he could not for some contract agreement garage!!Want to know why? As a street racer, Do you know how much money i could make on the side in the streets racing this gadget!!! If ever pulled this wind up toy out of the trailer with my rep i would get laugh at!! But guess what, (I would tell them to put your MONEY were your Mouth is!!)....... its a $1000 plus to even talk to me!!..crack his ass ,go to a strip club and by the crew BJ's!!!! LOL!! everybody gets one!!!LOL!!! Have a nice day!!


Better not look at page 47.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Salty EV said:


> Better not look at page 47.


The good thing about this is noone I know will ever go on this forum!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

It is already out so I ask Ron if i could post up my conversation with some kat's on *******!!!
*Sean Lyddy
Heading back to Ct, with some good result of the electric dragcar. Some glitches with keeping the second motor engaged,which we figured out but it was to late to get another pass in! The 81 EV camaro hooked an 1.51 sixty foot a 6.8 in the eighth @ 98 miles an hour! 11.2 in the quarter mile @107 miles an hour,*






Matt Cater Impressive, what r u using for motors?
Paul Scott Sick !!
Johnataniel Cintron ‎11.2 @107 that doesn't add up lol how's that possible? 11.2 usually traps 120mph++

 This kat is on point!!! A true racer that know's what time it is!!!

Sean Lyddy A lesson in reading time slips and dialing ii a drag car! If anyone can quess what happen i will by them a beer!
Matt Cater You either had an issue or just let off bc of shakedown runs after the 1/8 mile
Johnataniel Cintron Going with the second motor failure! Or let off.
Matt Cater Now let's get some budlight limes and fried noodles! Haha
Sean Lyddy Did not let off!! Johnny boy nailed it right on the head! The second motor disengaged after the eighth! Now lady's can u tell me how fast the car should have went? And u will get the bonus plan!!
Matt Cater Based on the mph in the 1/8 I'd say it should of when mid to high 10's at around 126 to 128

What a stupid ass!!
Johnataniel Cintron ‎9.90 @ 140

TRUE!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Continued...


Sean Lyddy Sorry Matt wrong!Do not feel so bad thats what i said last night too!When i watched the car go down the track i was waiting for the board 2 light up a 10.30!
Sean Lyddy Ding ding ding u are right again Johnny boy! Now tell Mattypoo why
Matt Cater Yes educate me on the world Of straight line racing, you kno what I'm into, road race setups and street racing!

If you notice this guy Matt I have no respect for!! This prick is try to ride my coat tales!!another loser that i have to deal with!!


Sean Lyddy Tell him why John
Johnataniel Cintron Honestly I don't really know why! I just know lol. It's one of those things! U see it enough u just know.
 Now this kat is one of my boy's with a brand new CRZ that i have been playing with on a Dyno... Turbo Charging it is next on the thing to do list!!


Sean Lyddy It is because of the 6.8 et!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Johnataniel Cintron ‎^^^ yes
Sean Lyddy Ur a smart kat John it also means to me it can come out of the hole harder because the sixty footer should be a low 1.40 to get the 6.8!!! To sum it up the car is making big steam!!! All we have to do is get the bugs out and Scrivener Racing, Ron and I will have built the worlds fastest full-sized EV dragcar!!
Johnataniel Cintron I like that!! Bisimoto is coming out with the plug and play for the cr-z so we will be able to boost soon
Sean Lyddy Sweetness! Are u coming to Lebanon
Johnataniel Cintron When?
Sean Lyddy May 7, will make u part of the crew
Johnataniel Cintron I'm down!
 REAL people get shit DONE!!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Salty EV said:


> Better not look at page 47.


...Good looking out Salty...just caught this but the kat is already out o" the bag!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'll have to agree with some of the EVDL that the Camaro is not a "Full sized vehicle". A 73 T-bird is a full size vehicle. That said, Ron has followed through with his plans and built an impressive vehicle, I have no doubt it will post great times when he gets it sorted. I just don't think he needs to over hype it as he seems to do at times. Get the car working and the results will say it all. If he has to keep the specs and results secret it does us little good, this is a DIY site where we share information and help each other, as we've done with Ron.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

jrp3 said:


> i'll have to agree with some of the evdl that the camaro is not a "full sized vehicle". A 73 t-bird is a full size vehicle. That said, ron has followed through with his plans and built an impressive vehicle, i have no doubt it will post great times when he gets it sorted. I just don't think he needs to over hype it as he seems to do at times. Get the car working and the results will say it all. If he has to keep the specs and results secret it does us little good, this is a diy site where we share information and help each other, as we've done with ron.


... Well said!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

ruckus said:


> Sounds like some on here need to learn about the Meyers Briggs personality types.
> 
> Some people are innately programmed to question EVERYTHING, even advice given by "experts". This type is labeled the "inventor" for a reason. They brought you electricity, vaccines, and almost everything you use every day. And NO amount of telling them they are doing it wrong will make them change their ways. You should thank this type exactly BECAUSE they don't listen to conventional wisdom. If they did, we would still be in the stone age.
> 
> ...


...This dude is on point!! Thanx Ruckus!!!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> REAL people get shit DONE!!!!


Hi PIMP,

What is your point to posts #494-496? It would seem to me that you think running the first half of the race well entitles you to world record claims. It doesn't work that way. But whatever, welcome to the forum. 

And let's see.....what are unreal people. Imaginary people? Yeah, they don't get things done. And neither do imaginary second halves  

If his second half with one motor only yielded a 14 mph increase, why do you think that if he had 2 motors for the second half it would have been much more than that? Speculation without foundation is what I see.

Regards,

major


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

OMG!

Okay diy ev forum, welcome Sean into the group. Your in for a ride! 
Let me explain a little about my team member Sean, he has built the worlds fastest Honda in the 1/4 mile when he lived in Cali. He built custom drag cars in Miami, and he builds turbo and nitro cars daily. He knows more about drag racing then the entire NEDRA board. He builds custom headers, intercoolers, etc.....his reputation is known around the globe. He currently works for many custom shops in CT and runs his own.
He cut and installed all the tin and fiberglass on my Camaro, there is no match for his hands! 

He has also decided to build his own EV dragster with his partner in East Hartford, CT. If you guys thought I was wild you ain't seen nothing yet!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

One thing that has been brought to my attention is that there are very few drag racers on this forum. Probably only a few that have ever visited a drag track. The drag racing scene is much different than your typical ev owners lifestyle, to sum it up drag racers are wild guys with huge ego's! 

Visit a track and watch and listen, you will see what I mean. Now that "Old School" drag guys are taking an interest in ev drag racing it will bring in a new crowd much different than the gentle ev owner. This is what ev racing needed, gear heads wanting to build the fastest ev's.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Great, a skilled builder should create a kickass EV and help push the technology. The more fast EV's the merrier.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> One thing that has been brought to my attention is that there are very few drag racers on this forum. Probably only a few that have ever visited a drag track. The drag racing scene is much different than your typical ev owners lifestyle, to sum it up drag racers are wild guys with huge ego's!
> 
> Visit a track and watch and listen, you will see what I mean. Now that "Old School" drag guys are taking an interest in ev drag racing it will bring in a new crowd much different than the gentle ev owner. This is what ev racing needed, gear heads wanting to build the fastest ev's.


You amuse me. You think we question you because we are all conservation minded granola eaters. We question you because you make grand claims without backing them up. What you THINK you will do is not the same as having done it and no amount of boasting will make it otherwise.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Wrong, I know why you "question" me, your a NEDRA guy and looking to break balls. You can deny it all you want. The only one here with the B/S is you. We can see right through your posts, your B/S is the same thing in many forms.



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> You amuse me. You think we question you because we are all conservation minded granola eaters. We question you because you make grand claims without backing them up. What you THINK you will do is not the same as having done it and no amount of boasting will make it otherwise.


----------



## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> One thing that has been brought to my attention is that there are very few drag racers on this forum. Probably only a few that have ever visited a drag track. The drag racing scene is much different than your typical ev owners lifestyle, to sum it up drag racers are wild guys with huge ego's!
> 
> Visit a track and watch and listen, you will see what I mean. Now that "Old School" drag guys are taking an interest in ev drag racing it will bring in a new crowd much different than the gentle ev owner. This is what ev racing needed, gear heads wanting to build the fastest ev's.


I am stoked for how some fast EV racers will really start to move the scene along. I am also fine with the wild guys with EGO's and a little bit of trash talking all in good taste, heck its part of how the scene is . However we don't need to bring the EGO's to these forums, before long we are gonna start having flame wars, and it will get bad like stangnet, ls1tech, templeofvtec, or pretty much any automotive forums I have seen, diluting useful info with useless posts. If anything we should move some of this conversation to chit chat, and let the drama fly there so that we can keep this thread on topic.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Wrong, I know why you "question" me, your a NEDRA guy and looking to break balls. You can deny it all you want. The only one here with the B/S is you. We can see right through your posts, your B/S is the same thing in many forms.


So if somebody criticizes you it must be a grand plot from some evil organization out to get you, not a reasonable response to some action of yours? Put away your tin foil hat man, I gain nothing by questioning you.

Let me make this clear for you: YOU DO NOT HAVE A 9 SECOND CAR UNTIL YOUR CAR ACTUALLY RUNS 9 SECONDS!


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> OMG!
> 
> Okay diy ev forum, welcome Sean into the group. Your in for a ride!
> Let me explain a little about my team member Sean, he has built the worlds fastest Honda in the 1/4 mile when he lived in Cali.


Really? Thats cool. What shop was he working for when this Honda was built? I only ask because I'm familiar with the Honda scene and I may recognize it.


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Wrong, I know why you "question" me, your a NEDRA guy and looking to break balls. You can deny it all you want. The only one here with the B/S is you. We can see right through your posts, your B/S is the same thing in many forms.


Well, let's see... 
+1 you had big plans
+1 you built the car
+1 you have teething problems. Everyone has teething problems especially when you're pushing the boundaries of the state of the art.
-1 Big claims about specific performance
-1 "it woulda gone this fast if only the car hadn't blown up halfway". No trophies for winning the first half of the race.
-1 You start cutting down everyone else's efforts
-1 Conspiracy theories

Give it a rest already. Everyone on here is eager to see you do well, and will provide the experience they've had as it may apply to your problems. On the other hand, nobody wants to hear about how you think that your car or its performance somehow makes you or it better than any of the other EV (drag) racers out there. Especially since it was the efforts of those guys that led to the creation of the near-megawatt capable motor controllers and practical siamese-motor setups.

In short, your ego trip should maybe be taken in a car that will get you to the end of the track. When the green flag drops, the BS stops.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

major said:


> Hi PIMP,
> 
> What is your point to posts #494-496? It would seem to me that you think running the first half of the race well entitles you to world record claims. It doesn't work that way. But whatever, welcome to the forum.
> 
> ...


...That sir is a great question!!!!You want to no why, because no car that runs that in the eighth only picks up 14 mph in the last eighth and you know that!! They call that sandbaggin!! unless you are running... N/T!! That's drag racing for NO TIMES.... no times posted on the board because why would i show you mine if your not going to show me yours!!!! STREET RACING STYLE AT THE TRACK!!


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> You want to no why, because no car that runs that in the eighth only picks up 14 mph in the last eighth and you know that!!


If you are in a car with no gear box, you might get up to speed quickly but adding 100 additional motors won't change your top speed. Either need a different ratio, or more voltage.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ...That sir is a great question!!!!You want to no why, because no car that runs that in the eighth only picks up 14 mph in the last eighth and you know that!!


How about only 18 mph in the last eighth? I direct you to this time slip from a rather famous, and fast, EV. EV performance tends to look a little different and low trap speeds for the ET, with a bit of laying out at the far end of the track, have been common.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

With EV's it's all about the batteries, not the motor. If your motor isn't a molten slag heap at the end of the race then you need more batteries


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> With EV's it's all about the batteries, not the motor. If your motor isn't a molten slag heap at the end of the race then you need more batteries


I don't remember where I picked this up, but someone said this and it really helps to think about it this way when you are going racing.

"_The battery is the equivalent to the engine in an ICE and the motor equals the transmission_"

Takes a minute to wrap your head around it. But when you are racing it is the best way to think.

Jim


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

THIS THREAD IS FULL OF FLAMERS, LAMERS, AND A$$HOLES!

IF YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE DRAGGIN SEEM COOL -FAIL!!

WHO WANTS TO HANG OUT WITH A BUNCH OF [Admin Edit]??

I AM INTERESTED IN EV PERFORMANCE, NOT 4TH GRADE YELLING MATCHES.

GET A GRIP PEOPLE. HOW ABOUT SOME TECHNICAL DISCUSSION INSTEAD OF TOTAL LAMENESS? 

THIS IS HOW THIS THREAD FEELS:


HOW ABOUT SOME HAPPINESS?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

And how exactly does your drivel help that, ruckus? In all caps even -- I'd say you are guilty of exactly what you are yelling about.


_In light of your reply, how about we work together to reduce the irrelevant posts in this thread in our own small way? If you agree, I'll delete this post if you are willing to delete your posts above and below this post. It isn't much, but it will reduce the background noise in the thread by 3 posts._


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

EVfun said:


> And how exactly does your drivel help that, ruckus? In all caps even -- I'd say you are guilty of exactly what you are yelling about.


I am saying, "be positive", that is a lot different message than these guys constantly bickering and cutting each other down.

Sorry about the all-caps my kids spilled koolaid on the computer and the shift key was stuck down.  I got it freed up now. 

Cheers


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

After making it through this whole thread,

I have yet to see any fair reason to call Ron a liar or see what the fuss is all about. His car isn't isn't even finished yet, and like most EVs has some teething problems. I think most of us have been there too.

What I do see however is rampant hijacking, direct personal attacks, and constant baiting for the "gotcha" moment. All of which are clear violations of forum rules let alone not helpful or in any way constructive.

So please stop. Any questions or concerns? - See me via PM. If not, tone it down and let things get back on topic.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

EVfun said:


> How about only 18 mph in the last eighth? I direct you to this time slip from a rather famous, and fast, EV. EV performance tends to look a little different and low trap speeds for the ET, with a bit of laying out at the far end of the track, have been common.


I have built last fall ,106mm turbo mustang that has over 2400 hp made the turbo headers from scratch and the cross over tube to feed the turbo..It used to have an F3R-1 supercharger on it. last year when we ran the car from the 1/8 to the 1/4 it gain 42.5 mph and that is unheard of!!! I was in shock seeing his time slip!!....all i am saying is the numbers do not lie!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> OMG!
> 
> Okay diy ev forum, welcome Sean into the group. Your in for a ride!
> Let me explain a little about my team member Sean, he has built the worlds fastest Honda in the 1/4 mile when he lived in Cali. He built custom drag cars in Miami, and he builds turbo and nitro cars daily. He knows more about drag racing then the entire NEDRA board. He builds custom headers, intercoolers, etc.....his reputation is known around the globe. He currently works for many custom shops in CT and runs his own.
> ...


You almost got me convinced!!! LOL But there is one motor that have not played with and that is an RB26....I know can get well over a thousand horse on the stock block!!...let me bow down to the electric crowd!!!..One thing about me If it aint fast i am not [Admin Edit] with it!!
and me and u are in for the long haul!! U just do not know it yet!!LOL!!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

ruckus said:


> THIS THREAD IS FULL OF FLAMERS, LAMERS, AND A$$HOLES!
> 
> IF YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE DRAGGIN SEEM COOL -FAIL!!
> 
> ...


...Read the time slip if you want to discuss technical shit...in all honesty I have never seen a time slip like that one, the numbers are to far apart... i feel i did not do my job right!! as a chassis tuner, i have work to do!!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ...Read the time slip if you want to discuss technical shit...in all honesty I have never seen a time slip like that one, the numbers are to far apart... i feel i did not do my job right!! as a chassis tuner, i have work to do!!


I believe he was only trying to paraphrase the tone of the duscussion.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> - Deleted by admin - Inappropriate Language -


Should run 9 seconds isn't the same as runs 9 seconds. You don't have a 9 second car until it runs 9 seconds. Is that really that hard to understand?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> - Deleted by admin - Inappropriate Language -


Classy stuff. No one is impressed by internet tough guys. Build your car, post your time slips, and skip the drama.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Classy stuff. No one is impressed by internet tough guys. Build your car, post your time slips, and skip the drama.


Its a given!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Should run 9 seconds isn't the same as runs 9 seconds. You don't have a 9 second car until it runs 9 seconds. Is that really that hard to understand?


.. like i said what is your claim to fame!!!except for running your mouth!!!


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> .. like i said what is your claim to fame!!!except for running your mouth!!!


As of right now I have built just as many 9 second EV's as you have.


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

Ron should start a new build thread to bring focus back to the car. In the mean time I guess lets just enjoy the ride.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you for posting the video, you beat me to the draw! 



JRP3 said:


>


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Your car hooks up pretty good, Ron. Which car did Paul run - what were his times? I don't see them listed on the ECEDRA website.That drag bike sounds pretty cool - are there any pics of it?

Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, I was very satisfied with the hook-up. My chassis guys say they can get even better. We need a solid finish and then the great times will come. People at the track noticed a flash under the car at the burnout and then again halfway down the track, we believe the flash down the track was the second motor disengaging. We are changing many wires and switches to repair the problem.

Paul also had some issues, he brought many bad-azz Porsches to the track and wanted to race his dual motor machine, but because of a controller or wire failure he could not. He did race another Porsche half charged, we will keep those numbers silent. He has replaced the controller and will go back to PBIR on a test and tune night to set some records.



kek_63 said:


> Your car hooks up pretty good, Ron. Which car did Paul run - what were his times? I don't see them listed on the ECEDRA website.That drag bike sounds pretty cool - are there any pics of it?
> 
> Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

If you click on the pic or name of that race you will see all the pictures.



kek_63 said:


> Your car hooks up pretty good, Ron. Which car did Paul run - what were his times? I don't see them listed on the ECEDRA website.That drag bike sounds pretty cool - are there any pics of it?
> 
> Keith


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> As of right now I have built just as many 9 second EV's as you have.


.....LOL!!one thing about you is that i get a good chuckle out of ya!!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

A few facts I would like to point out. Our gear ratio was 3.25 when we pulled that low 1/8 mile time. 3.25 is a gear designed for top end performance, if we installed say 3.73 we would have an even faster 1/8 mile time. 

We will not know what the car's limits until we race atleast 3 runs with both motors fully engaged. After we race three races at full torque and hp, we will make a decision on what steps we need to improve our 1/4 mile times. We have many options, including additional batteries, adding an overdrive trans, or using a different gear ratio. Starting with a low number of 11.2 makes the low 9's a reality.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Ron I know you are bizzy with the other LithPacs...Today I got u FREE....1/4 mile Dyno pulls...an in ground Dyno that can handle the beast!!!...It can give u pony and torque numbers too!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Starting with a low number of 11.2 makes the low 9's a reality.


Potential does not reality make  It ain't real until it happens.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Thank you for posting the video, you beat me to the draw!


...LOL!!!camero!!!It is a camaro!!!For the VID!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You are correct, but I have faith in my team. Would you like to put a friendly bet that I hit the 9's before the summer is over? I will put up $5000.00 to back my claims! 

Put your money where your mouth is! The WORLD is watching. 



JRP3 said:


> Potential does not reality make  It ain't real until it happens.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Yes, I received your message, just very busy with the kids. We will dyno the car after the Lebanon Valley Race. 



SPL_PIMP said:


> Ron I know you are bizzy with the other LithPacs...Today I got u FREE....1/4 mile Dyno pulls...an in ground Dyno that can handle the beast!!!...It can give u pony and torque numbers too!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

lithiumaniacsevracing said:


> yes, i received your message, just very busy with the kids. We will dyno the car after the lebanon valley race. :d


...sweet!!!! Back to building some headers...break time is over bitch!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Get your azz back to work! 

Time to beat up the suspect! 



SPL_PIMP said:


> ...sweet!!!! Back to building some headers...break time is over bitch!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> You are correct, but I have faith in my team. Would you like to put a friendly bet that I hit the 9's before the summer is over? I will put up $5000.00 to back my claims!
> 
> Put your money where your mouth is! The WORLD is watching.


Yes, the world is watching you, not me. I'm not the one making claims before they happen, which you do over and over again, for some strange reason. I'd never make a straight up bet where I have no control over the outcome and the other person does, but I'll put up a buck against your $5K  I've never said you can't do it, I've just said you haven't done it. There is a big difference which you seem to fail to recognize.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Get your azz back to work!
> 
> Time to beat up the suspect!


LOL!!!My days never end!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ...LOL!!!camero!!!It is a camaro!!!For the VID!!


That's alright, this is a "Thread", not a "Tread"


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> That's alright, this is a "Thread", not a "Tread"


 Ha.... just caught that... We can build some fast cars but i guess some of us need a speak and spell!!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Did a complete battery "check-up" today, found one 5S pack not balanced, just replaced with a new one. The remainder of the pack is at perfect voltage.

The car is going back to Sean's shop Tuesday to get an upgrade, new switch board and gauges. They are also rewiring the complete 12 volt system. Hopefully this will cure a motor/hairball issue.

I am adding the front pack with the additional 20 volts. Never installed it yet. After that I am out of the nano-tech's. Waiting for another delivery.

Soon, the new style batteries will arrive with larger tabs. The second wave of battery boxes will be in modular style, no need for balance wires. These new boxes will have no internal wiring, and will work with any BMS system.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Did a complete battery "check-up" today, found one 5S pack not balanced, just replaced with a new one. The remainder of the pack is at perfect voltage.
> 
> The car is going back to Sean's shop Tuesday to get an upgrade, new switch board and gauges. They are also rewiring the complete 12 volt system. Hopefully this will cure a motor/hairball issue.
> 
> ...


everyone was saying you couldn't build an EV with the nano-tech lipolys and look at you do it. congrats!


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## ewert (Sep 5, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> everyone was saying you couldn't build an EV with the nano-tech lipolys and look at you do it. congrats!


Everyone? =P I feel happy in being one of those who suggested them.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> A few facts I would like to point out. Our gear ratio was 3.25 when we pulled that low 1/8 mile time. 3.25 is a gear designed for top end performance, if we installed say 3.73 we would have an even faster 1/8 mile time.


While this is obviously true with ICE powered cars.... the more experienced EV drag drag racers (not me  ) will tell you that this is really not the case, with their cars at least. Do some searches/reading on the Nedra site and you will find some discussion of this.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you. The new pack we are building is WILD! 



Bowser330 said:


> everyone was saying you couldn't build an EV with the nano-tech lipolys and look at you do it. congrats!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The point you are missing is we had NO power from the second motor after the 1/8 mile and it also slowed us down because the "running" motor had to pull the car and carry the "dead motor". yes, we all understand very well that EV's do not produce top end horsepower compared to ICE drag cars, but that is not the point. If we has just a small portion of HP from the "dead motor" our time would have been much quicker. Time will tell, keep watching. 



DIYguy said:


> While this is obviously true with ICE powered cars.... the more experienced EV drag drag racers (not me  ) will tell you that this is really not the case, with their cars at least. Do some searches/reading on the Nedra site and you will find some discussion of this.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The point you are missing is we had NO power from the second motor after the 1/8 mile and it also slowed us down because the "running" motor had to pull the car and carry the "dead motor". yes, we all understand very well that EV's do not produce top end horsepower compared to ICE drag cars, but that is not the point. If we has just a small portion of HP from the "dead motor" our time would have been much quicker. Time will tell, keep watching.


I got that point ok. I was referring to the comment of numerical gear changes. Even with both motors pulling full on, lowering the gear ratio (higher number) will not always (or possibly at all) lower your 60' times or even possibly your 1/8th mile times.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Hate to break it to you, but having the 2nd motor for the 2nd half of the run wouldn't have helped you very much. For fun and education, I did a spreadsheet with the equations of motion.

1 motor whole 1/4 mile:
 8.8 s @ 83 mph 1/8 mile
13.7 s @ 98 mph 1/4 mile

2 motors first 1/8 mile, then hold speed for 2nd 1/8:
6.8 s @ 98 mph 1/8 mile
11.4 s @ 98 mph 1/4 mile

2 motors for the first 1/8, 1 motor for 2nd 1/8:
6.8 s @ 98 mph 1/8 mile
11.2 s @ 105 mph 1/4 mile

2 motors whole time:
6.8 s @ 98 mph 1/8 mile
11.1 s @ 109 mph 1/4 mile

I tried to make the numbers fairly close to your time slips. It's not a perfect match, but it does make the point that you'll only pick up about a tenth if you have both motors (and nothing else changes). It turns out the first motor isn't helping as much as you think, if you just coast (well actually I did no speed change, not truly coasting) you only lose about 0.4 seconds.

Real gains will need to come from more voltage or more current or more motors.




LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The point you are missing is we had NO power from the second motor after the 1/8 mile and it also slowed us down because the "running" motor had to pull the car and carry the "dead motor". yes, we all understand very well that EV's do not produce top end horsepower compared to ICE drag cars, but that is not the point. If we has just a small portion of HP from the "dead motor" our time would have been much quicker. Time will tell, keep watching.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Thank you. The new pack we are building is WILD!


please make sure to keep us updated on those...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Brief ABG article on the car.
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/0...ro-tears-down-quarter-mile-in-11-253-seconds/


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Many modifications before Saturday's race.

* All new high quality 12 volt switches.
* Relocation of the Kilovac Bubba 500 contactors.
* First coat of paint.
* Rewiring of hairball.

After hours of discussing what is disengaging our second motor we are trying these first steps. The contactors were very close together and may have caused an issue. The original 12 volt switches were of low grade quality. The hairball may have an issue with keeping the contactor closed, so with the help of Steve Clunn we are trying an old "trick" that worked for him. We are jumping the start input into the key input with the same 12 volt wire. 

We have also learned these motors have a few "extras" added when built allowing them to operate on 190 volts. So, I will up the juice!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I think the paint job will fix it


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Team Haiyin EV Racing is always looking to learn and advance the sport of EV racing. We have hired an engineer that works with the US Government and Siemens, his firm is now a sponsor of our team. 

First, he is building us a new single Pot Box that will work with my dual motor set-up. He is also scheduled to diagnose our Zilla problem next week when we have the use of a dyno machine for a whole day. This guy reverse engineered the Zilla after only one review of our controller and a look at the components. He has the ability to build a much better controller for DC motor racing. Michael, our new engineer has thousands of patents in his name. His partner which is a friend of a friend has pointed him in our direction, the stories I have been told about Michael's abilities would amaze all of you. One story was when the US Navy flew him to a Nuclear Sub for his expertise in his field. He built his own airplane in the 70's. No bull, this guy will move EV racing in a new unknown direction.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Cool! Thank you. 



JRP3 said:


> Brief ABG article on the car.
> http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/0...ro-tears-down-quarter-mile-in-11-253-seconds/


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Okay, much to talk about.

Lebanon Valley today was very interesting. 

First pass, one motor disengaged AGAIN, so I head directly to our pits to diagnose our problem while in process. I left all power on with all
contactors open and had someone replace me in the drivers seat, we removed the hood and watched as the passenger side contactor openned and closed every 5 seconds????? Okay, enough of that, I shut it all down.

I took a few minutes to collect my thoughts and review all wiring. Everything seemed okay, but I remember reading somewhere that the negative wire ground from the hairball needs to be short, Otmar's recommends under 2 inches. I looked the drivers side ground was about 8 inches, but the passenger side was about 18 inches, waaaay to long. I cut wire and grounded it directly to mounting plate (2 inches) and grounded plate to frame and negative of battery.

Question: Why does Otmar recommend this wire to be 2 inches in length?

After installed all parts, bingo! We have a ringer, contactor is staying ingaged. Time for another run! Will it last?

Yes, driving to the starting line I feel more massive power. I launch and WOW! I pull the wheels off the ground for over 20 feet, riding on the bars. First time car has rode the bars, feels like a new beast! Then poof! I lose all power from motors???????

After getting a tow back to the pits, I check battery voltage, great 194 volts, then I check the voltage after the fuse, no good she's all wiped out!

My guess is this is the first time both controllers stayed engaged during burnout and launch.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Third try, install spare fuse and all is well, good voltage and contactors/hairballs seem to be working well. Go back to line and try it again, WOW! another ride with front wheels off the groung riding the bars for 20 feet, then poof, all is gone again?

Back to the pits, same problem blew the brand new fuse. I think now that both controllers are fixed they are pulling more amps than the fuse can handle. Yes, I need to upgrade to max my application. 

Plan, install dual fuses paralleled to double fuse strength. 

Will run again at Lebanon Valley's test and tune to verify all works before our Ohio event.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I warned you the 12v wiring can be a PITA.  If you find out why the ground wire length is so important please share. I'm pretty sure it is some type of electrical interference, but no specifics. 2 Z2k-HV controllers puts you on the bleeding edge of interference testing.

Was the contactor just opening and closing on its own even when the throttle wasn't being pressed? Wow, I would have hoped that resulted in a barrage of errors (something to work from.) The only error code I remember you reporting was the infamous 1224 code (12v to low.)


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## Salty EV (Jun 8, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Third try, install spare fuse and all is well, good voltage and contactors/hairballs seem to be working well. Go back to line and try it again, WOW! another ride with front wheels off the groung riding the bars for 20 feet, then poof, all is gone again?
> 
> Back to the pits, same problem blew the brand new fuse. I think now that both controllers are fixed they are pulling more amps than the fuse can handle. Yes, I need to upgrade to max my application.
> 
> ...


Just be careful putting too much fuse, it might not blow when you need it to.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What size fuse are you running? Otmar recommends a fuse that can handle full power for 20 seconds.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I was using one of these fuses:

http://cafeelectric.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=7

My original design planned for one Zilla, not two. I forgot I should have doubled up to compensate for the dual controller draw.



JRP3 said:


> What size fuse are you running? Otmar recommends a fuse that can handle full power for 20 seconds.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Error codes:

1121 Controller EEProm CRC Error
1123 Power Section Fail Test
1131 Shorted Loaded Controller During Precharge
1141 Main Contactor High Resistance
1133 Lost Communication with Controller



EVfun said:


> I warned you the 12v wiring can be a PITA.  If you find out why the ground wire length is so important please share. I'm pretty sure it is some type of electrical interference, but no specifics. 2 Z2k-HV controllers puts you on the bleeding edge of interference testing.
> 
> Was the contactor just opening and closing on its own even when the throttle wasn't being pressed? Wow, I would have hoped that resulted in a barrage of errors (something to work from.) The only error code I remember you reporting was the infamous 1224 code (12v to low.)


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

It seems by shortening the negative wire solved my controller/contactor disengagement problem. Now, I need to do some research to compensate for the 4000 amps battery setting I have from the Hairballs. I have each Hairball set at 2000 battery amps which is drawing an enormous amount of juice from the battery when both Zilla's work properly.

I might have to run two rear contactors and two or three rear fuses?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Another fact has now been revealed due to these problems and corrections.

Since I never blown a fuse until yesterday, the one controller must have not been working consistantly during all my past runs, even when I ran a 11.2 1/4. Yesterday was the first time the car pulled the wheels of the ground, feels like a whole new monster. Can't wait to upgrade the fuses and contactors to get full potential all the way down the track. Will go back to our home track 'Lebanon Valley Dragway' on the next test and tune date.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Now that I am learning from experiences, It feels good! 

Another issue might be the 2/0 cable running 4000 battery amps to the front splitter, I must check wire rating and time. Can 2/0 cable do the job for 9 seconds?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I guess they aren't melting but I'd think they are too small for that power level.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am looking at the Ferraz Shawmut data sheet regarding current and melting times. Oops, the A50QS800-4 only lasts a few seconds at 4000+ amps.

I am considering installing two A50S1200-4 fuses in parallel to hold the current. My pack is capable of 6300 amps, so it was delivering 4000 amps for a few seconds before poof! 

I must check what the short burst rating is for 2/0 cable.



JRP3 said:


> I guess they aren't melting but I'd think they are too small for that power level.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I would guess that you MAY need 2 strands of 0000 cable to prevent huge E/I losses, one to each controller. 2/0 is only supposed to be good for 300 amps, but I realize you aren't running 100% duty cycle.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am considering installing two A50S1200-4 fuses in parallel to hold the current. ...


Paralleling fuses is possible, but not a recommended practice. 



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I must check what the short burst rating is for 2/0 cable.


That depends on way too many variables to estimate with better than, say, 20-30% accuracy, and accuracy gets worse as the time gets longer than 5 seconds, but one equation (note the word "one") predicts that 2/0 cable with 90C rated insulation will suffer insulation failure after 1 second at 9600A, 5 seconds at 4300A, 3050A for 10 seconds, etc*. 

Of course, the time that battery current = motor current is very brief, as that is the peak power point of a dyno chart.



* - The calculated i²t (fusing energy) value for 2/0 90C copper cable is ~93MJ.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Hate to break it to you, but having the 2nd motor for the 2nd half of the run wouldn't have helped you very much. For fun and education, I did a spreadsheet with the equations of motion.
> 
> 1 motor whole 1/4 mile:
> 8.8 s @ 83 mph 1/8 mile
> ...


 You are missing some numbers that are prevalent in your chart, like the 60ft time to the ET...the weight and gearing of said vehicle.....


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have come to the conclusion that all high voltage wiring needs to be reworked. Here is the plan:

Two - 3/0 Positive cables to each contactor (from pack) with one A50QS1200-4 fuse each. How does that sound?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The resistance of 2/0 cable is 0.078 milliohms per foot. At 4000 amps you are looking at about 0.3 volt in voltage lose per foot, along with about 1200 watts of heat per foot! Two runs of 3/0 will take the voltage drop per foot down to 0.123 and two runs of 4/0 will take it down to 0.098. Even 2 runs of 4/0 is about 200 watts per foot per cable. How about 2 big copper bus bars running under the car above the bottom of the frame rails and with a shield? Wow, I've never had to consider cabling that size!


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Should you maybe consider moving the Zillas closer to the pack?

Did you have a good turnout for your ECEDRA event? How did the other racers do?


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

I had a lot of fun yesterday with Ron and Scrivener Racing... trying to dial in this car....and there was a lot of excitement in the air!!! I will give a breakdown of the day...1rst pass was the cleanness pass but not on the wheeliebars.....the track official..forgot to tell the tower to switch the clock's from 1/8 mile times to 1/4 mile times....needless to say we were all frustrated with getting a good time slip.... with a good pass on it so we could make more 4 link adjustments! The good thing about it is that it hooked a 1.466..60ft.....6.8 in the 1/8 [email protected] 92.76 MPH!! The best 60ft of the cars life so far!! 2nd pass the car came out the hole like a pig, I turn my head away and started to walk back to the pits...already new it was going to be another... 13 second run..(AKA the hairball problem) ..Now i am mad!!! Just trying to light the clock up with a good clean pass!!! We all had a Powow... diagnose the grounding issues and brought her back to the line!! 3rd pass...and me and Bill Scrivener had BIG smiles on our faces as it left the line!!! She smacked the wheelie bars and left chalk marks on the pavement!!!(We put white shoe polish on the wheelie bar wheels to make sure we have the suspension true in the car, it helps us tune the car) When the car left the line track official said, Wow you guys are on to a good pass!! Then it fell on its face.....(aka fuse problem) 4th pass the same!!A grand of fuses down the drain!!! But we learned a lot and the track official that messed up in the beginning came up to me and said you guys are on to something here!! All and all it was a good day!!! If you want to see the 3rd pass go to facebook and search my name Sean Lyddy, the video is from the track photo guy Jim Knights!!! Lebanon Valley here we COME!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

First off, it looks like my chart is likely wrong. If the Redelectric Camaro really did an 11.2 on just one motor, my assumptions of 2 motors for the first 1/8 and 1 motor for the 2nd 1/8 are wrong.

Accurately modeling the 60 foot times is tough, as you ramp from 0 to full acceleration very quickly, and it depends on tires, suspension (front and rear), and electric ramp rate. Since I was doing a quick-and-dirty sim I left those effects out, and just assumed you hit full acceleration instantly to make things simple. My goal was to quickly show the difference between 0, 1, and 2 motors going for the 2nd half of the run, not accurately model launch dynamics. For the comparison the launches are the same for each case, so error in launch modeling does not affect the time differences.

If you start knowing power and torque, then you need to know the vehicle weight and gearing. This is typically how the simulations work. In this case, I knew how fast it hit the 1/8 mile with 2 motors, and how fast it did the 2nd half with just one motor, and how fast it did a run on just 1 motor. With information like that you don't need to know the vehicle's weight -- it is effectively giving you the power/weight ratio.

The important point it shows (and as any hard core drag racer knows), the launch is all important, not what happens at the far end of the track.


SPL_PIMP said:


> You are missing some numbers that are prevalent in your chart, like the 60ft time to the ET...the weight and gearing of said vehicle.....


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

The 60' time at Lebanon Valley was 1.4, but the fuse blew before the 60' marker and I coasted down the whole track, amazing punch I must of had to coast the whole 1/4 with no power. My crew says the 60' time will be lower when we upgrade the fuses and wires. 

The most important fact to consider is I pulled 11.2 in the 1/4 in FL, but did not blow any fuses or pulled the wheels off the ground. I come to NY fix the controller issue and pulled the wheels of the ground for the first time and cook the fuse. This in my mind says the 11.2 run in FL, was not with both motors up till the 1/8, the motor was cutting in and out intermittently.

Ordering fuses and rewiring this baby, will run this weekend at Lebanon Valley. 



DavidDymaxion said:


> First off, it looks like my chart is likely wrong. If the Redelectric Camaro really did an 11.2 on just one motor, my assumptions of 2 motors for the first 1/8 and 1 motor for the 2nd 1/8 are wrong.
> 
> Accurately modeling the 60 foot times is tough, as you ramp from 0 to full acceleration very quickly, and it depends on tires, suspension (front and rear), and electric ramp rate. Since I was doing a quick-and-dirty sim I left those effects out, and just assumed you hit full acceleration instantly to make things simple. My goal was to quickly show the difference between 0, 1, and 2 motors going for the 2nd half of the run, not accurately model launch dynamics. For the comparison the launches are the same for each case, so error in launch modeling does not affect the time differences.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You asked what gears in the rear and weight:

Motive 3.25 ratio
Weight under 2400lbs.



DavidDymaxion said:


> First off, it looks like my chart is likely wrong. If the Redelectric Camaro really did an 11.2 on just one motor, my assumptions of 2 motors for the first 1/8 and 1 motor for the 2nd 1/8 are wrong.
> 
> Accurately modeling the 60 foot times is tough, as you ramp from 0 to full acceleration very quickly, and it depends on tires, suspension (front and rear), and electric ramp rate. Since I was doing a quick-and-dirty sim I left those effects out, and just assumed you hit full acceleration instantly to make things simple. My goal was to quickly show the difference between 0, 1, and 2 motors going for the 2nd half of the run, not accurately model launch dynamics. For the comparison the launches are the same for each case, so error in launch modeling does not affect the time differences.
> 
> ...


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## nosill (Dec 31, 2010)

The car with driver is close to 2700lbs. Trying to figure out what the car would run is impossible because of all the varibles and probs right now. After seeing the launch it had the last two runs I can't wait to se it make a full pass. I also think we will be looking to be changing rear gears and/ or coming up with a type of trans for a gear change.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bill,

Welcome to the forum. I knew you would show up soon or later. 

Guys,

Bill is my crew chief and works side by side with Sean. Both have bundles of knowledge in drag racing and would help anyone out with reasonable questions. Bill has over 30 years of drag racing experience. 



nosill said:


> The car with driver is close to 2700lbs. Trying to figure out what the car would run is impossible because of all the varibles and probs right now. After seeing the launch it had the last two runs I can't wait to se it make a full pass. I also think we will be looking to be changing rear gears and/ or coming up with a type of trans for a gear change.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

nosill said:


> The car with driver is close to 2700lbs. Trying to figure out what the car would run is impossible because of all the varibles and probs right now. After seeing the launch it had the last two runs I can't wait to se it make a full pass. I also think we will be looking to be changing rear gears and/ or coming up with a type of trans for a gear change.


..Keep it on the low... Bill... I want all these college boys to figure out what we know....knowledge is power....knowledge is money!!!end of story!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sean,

Relax, keep cool on this site. He is a friend and a supporter. Just explain to him what he is doing wrong. This is not an wild drag racing forum like you are use too. Sounds funny coming from me. 

Ron


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Sean,
> 
> Relax, keep cool on this site. He is a friend and a supporter. Just explain to him what he is doing wrong. This is not an wild drag racing forum like you are use too. Sounds funny coming from me.
> 
> Ron


 Like they say in Cali!....WHATEVER!!!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am still baffled why we did not blow fuses in Florida with the 11.2 run? I thought the second motor was engaged for atleast the 1/8, but It could have not been becuase the fuse would have blown.

This is going to get very interesting when we get back to the track with two fuses and two motors ready to rumble.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We do have more videos and pictures from Lebanon Valley coming!


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Wasn't God supposed to strike you dead if you didn't get into the 9's this weekend?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ..Keep it on the low... Bill... I want all these college boys to figure out what we know....knowledge is power....knowledge is money!!!end of story!!!


Are you aiming for a back roads street racing betting car or a showcase for the new Drag Racing Association Ron has formed? You guys brought the car to the forum. If you don't want to share, go away!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Wasn't God supposed to strike you dead if you didn't get into the 9's this weekend?


...LOL...Jealousy will get you know were .........TOAD!!!!!


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ..Keep it on the low... Bill... I want all these college boys to figure out what we know....knowledge is power....knowledge is money!!!end of story!!!


too bad you got non of the above!!! it seems to me you don't know the difference between a contractor and a motor on an electrical drawing and yet you are the BIG ev builder with the knowledge.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Wasn't God supposed to strike you dead if you didn't get into the 9's this weekend?


 ...and i am still baffled about u and ur ride???? were are the pics?? were is some info?? If you are some billy badass with EV ....you would think you would help us!!! At lease we post are progress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

efan said:


> too bad you got non of the above!!! it seems to me you don't know the difference between a contractor and a motor on an electrical drawing and yet you are the BIG ev builder with the knowledge.


 ..you got me wrong Sir...for i am a person that has built many drag cars in the day!! I am a chassis tuner ...If you give me the power ...my job is to plant it to the ground and let you kill yourself!!! LOL!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Are you aiming for a back roads street racing betting car or a showcase for the new Drag Racing Association Ron has formed? You guys brought the car to the forum. If you don't want to share, go away!


.... I want to give it all to u!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

EVfun said:


> Where did you see that in David's post?
> 
> 
> 
> O.K. so your fast. You might want to work on reading comprehension.


..1rst of all he said the WORD assume in the first sentence!! read the rest of it, look at the original time slips posted!!! like the old saying goes.....if you assume something ...it makes an ass out of u and me!!


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Nope, didn't say that. Using elapsed time, and speeds, you can get an estimate on the power/weight ratio. Obviously you can't get just the weight.

Thank you for your offer to help my with my drag race launch. I have only once taken my daily driver to the drag strip (did OK but could probably improve). My racing usually involves corners. 

Ron: I'm going to reiterate some of the safety concerns:


2/0 is probably too small
Hot cables wick heat into batteries, controller, and motor
I'd humbly suggest abandoning the quest to get into the 9's immediately, and work up slowly, checking things carefully after each run.
It's especially important to have good cables between the motor and controller -- due to current multiplication these see more current than the battery cables
If you parallel fuses, the slightest imbalance between them means one gets more current and blows sooner than the sum of their ratings, and then the other blows in short order.



SPL_PIMP said:


> .....If you are telling me you can guess the vehicles weight by the 60 ft you are crazy!!! how about i send my ex old lady to your house ... i will give you a 20 spot if you can guess her weight!!!....Do me a favor take your day driven car to the track... launch it and make a pass!!! post a time slip on this sight, i will tell you what u did wrong..how to fix it and so on and so on!!





DavidDymaxion said:


> First off, it looks like my chart is likely wrong. If the Redelectric Camaro really did an 11.2 on just one motor, my assumptions of 2 motors for the first 1/8 and 1 motor for the 2nd 1/8 are wrong.
> 
> Accurately modeling the 60 foot times is tough, as you ramp from 0 to full acceleration very quickly, and it depends on tires, suspension (front and rear), and electric ramp rate. Since I was doing a quick-and-dirty sim I left those effects out, and just assumed you hit full acceleration instantly to make things simple. My goal was to quickly show the difference between 0, 1, and 2 motors going for the 2nd half of the run, not accurately model launch dynamics. For the comparison the launches are the same for each case, so error in launch modeling does not affect the time differences.
> 
> ...


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> ...LOL...Jealousy will get you know were .........TOAD!!!!!


LOL-yeah, keep telling yourself it's jealousy that makes people call you out for saying stupid shit.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> LOL-yeah, keep telling yourself it's jealousy that makes people call you out for saying stupid shit.


...LOL..Good morning to all ,on the board today!! And is going to be a great day!!!


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> II am considering installing two A50S1200-4 fuses in parallel to hold the current. My pack is capable of 6300 amps, so it was delivering 4000 amps for a few seconds before poof!


Are you paralling fuses in one battery lead or fusing each Zilla separately?
Gerhard


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

This is my plan for upgrade:

Two 2/0 positive cables with two 800 fuses, each cable will connect to each front contactor. So, from the battery there will be two long 2/0 cables (not touching) running to each contactor/controller, both will have their own fuse. I will lower the battery amps to 1500 for each controller. The wiring from the controllers to the motors are 3/0 cables. Also, I will move the single rear contactor to the negative side. 



GerhardRP said:


> Are you paralling fuses in one battery lead or fusing each Zilla separately?
> Gerhard


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sean's commnets are based on his knowledge of drag racing, not ev building. You (may) know more than him in the world of electric vehicles, but he will run circles around you in racing knowledge. 



efan said:


> too bad you got non of the above!!! it seems to me you don't know the difference between a contractor and a motor on an electrical drawing and yet you are the BIG ev builder with the knowledge.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Update: I will also add another rear contactor and have two 2/0 negative wires with each a contactor, and two positives each with a fuse. 



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> This is my plan for upgrade:
> 
> Two 2/0 positive cables with two 800 fuses, each cable will connect to each front contactor. So, from the battery there will be two long 2/0 cables (not touching) running to each contactor/controller, both will have their own fuse. I will lower the battery amps to 1500 for each controller. The wiring from the controllers to the motors are 3/0 cables. Also, I will move the single rear contactor to the negative side.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Sean's commnets are based on his knowledge of drag racing, not ev building. You (may) know more than him in the world of electric vehicles, but he will run circles around you in racing knowledge.


just my $0.02 but on a drag racing forum that might be something to brag about, on an EV forum that kind of bragging makes you sound like an idiot. I do love the car though, and I'm impressed that you've pushed through all of these problems and made the car into something. I look forward to seeing the car when you get past these little issues and get down the 1/4 mile under full power so you can start tweaking gear ratio's and controller settings instead of just trying to make things work for a full 10 seconds.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Us drag racers just like to swing our dicks once in awhile. We have huge ego's!  This thread has been very civil, you should read Yellow Bullet or some of the other racing forums. 

I appreciate the comment, it has been a hard learning lesson for me. I have learned oodles of knowledge building this car. 

Not sure what we will hit now, I knew after Florida's run she would definitely hit 10's and possibly 9's, but now knowing the second motor was cutting out more than in through the whole 11.2 run, she might do better than 10's or 9's?

Remember hit 6.8 in 1/8 @ 93.43 mph with a 11.2 in the 1/4 @ 107 mph, but never pulled the wheels or burnt the fuse, hmmmmmnnn. I think something great is coming. 





rwaudio said:


> just my $0.02 but on a drag racing forum that might be something to brag about, on an EV forum that kind of bragging makes you sound like an idiot. I do love the car though, and I'm impressed that you've pushed through all of these problems and made the car into something. I look forward to seeing the car when you get past these little issues and get down the 1/4 mile under full power so you can start tweaking gear ratio's and controller settings instead of just trying to make things work for a full 10 seconds.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Us drag racers just like to swing our dicks once in awhile. We have huge ego's!


I was told that ego and dick size are inversely proportional.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Don't believe everything you are told! 




EVfun said:


> I was told that ego and dick size are inversely proportional.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have been doing my reviewing of the Zilla's manual, it stresses the use of: 
 
"One to seven contactor snubber diodes (depending on the options). Part number 1.5KE24CA-T​*It is very important that you use these!"*

I do not have any snubber diodes installed, what is their purpose and where do they install on the contactors?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

This isn't one of those forums. Here we try to be more polite in disagreements and have a limited tolerance for "swinging dicks".

One temporary ban has been issued already and if we have to shorten the leash further - we will....

This is taken directly from the Terms of Service:


> The following are prohibited on DIY Electric Car forums:
> 
> 1) Flaming, hate speech, racial slurs or otherwise obviously offensive or trolling remarks.
> 2) Links posted to products for sale outside of the marketplace forums
> ...


http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/faq.php

Aside from that, this has been a build worth watching and I hope to see the thread continue.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Whoaaa! Take it easy killer! We can move all of Team Haiyin's info to another forum if you wish. A matter of fact I could start a drag racing EV forum if you like. Don't smack a gift horse in the mouth. 

Your comments about politeness and disagreements seemed to be one sided at times. We/I have been getting hammered by some of your members for months, I see no warning to them?

This thread was started by a drag racing team, we discuss things much differently, if you want us to leave just say the word and me and team is gone!



david85 said:


> This isn't one of those forums. Here we try to be more polite in disagreements and have a limited tolerance for "swinging dicks".
> 
> One temporary ban has been issued already and if we have to shorten the leash further - we will....
> 
> ...


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


>


...I look seriously gay in this pic....what the hell am doing an Irish River Dance!!!!LOL...well maybe it looks like I am trying to Jack Your Ride!!!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

david85 said:


> This isn't one of those forums. Here we try to be more polite in disagreements and have a limited tolerance for "swinging dicks".
> 
> One temporary ban has been issued already and if we have to shorten the leash further - we will....
> 
> ...


....I...Sean Paul Lyddy!!!promise to take it slow on this board!!!...Scouts Honor!!! ...Is this like a pledge night ...cause ..I am kinda feeling a little SPECIAL!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

LMFAO!

Irish River Side-Step! 



SPL_PIMP said:


> ...I look seriously gay in this pic....what the hell am doing an Irish River Dance!!!!LOL...well maybe it looks like I am trying to Jack Your Ride!!!!!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sean,

Haven't spoke with you all day. Dan called we straightened it all out. It's all good, unless Mark needs an eye gammy! LOL. Dan said he made the tach wiring mistake. No biggy. 

I will try to get the new wire design complete before friday, if so we can go back to the Valley this Saturday. If not, we will go back on the 21st of May.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have been doing my reviewing of the Zilla's manual, it stresses the use of:
> 
> "One to seven contactor snubber diodes (depending on the options). Part number 1.5KE24CA-T​*It is very important that you use these!"*
> 
> I do not have any snubber diodes installed, what is their purpose and where do they install on the contactors?


They install on the contactor(s) at the +12 volt power (the terminal connected to the hairball) and ground connection(s.) What contactors are you using? If you leave that out with a Albright SW200 contactor it usually damages the hairball pretty much the first time it tries to turn off the contactor.

When a coil is switched off the energy stored in the magnetic field that was being used to hold the contacts closed will go somewhere. Most relays in cars have pretty small coils and the switch that turns them off just takes the voltage spike. The larger coils in a contactor have a lot of kick and the hairball switches them off with a transistor. It will not appreciate the potentially 100+ volts worth of kick that coil can dish out if it has nowhere to go. It can destroy the transistor. The Zilla hairball needs the contactor coils snubbed with a bidirectional snubber. They conduct in either direction at about 24 volts to clamp the spike to a safe level.

The Zilla shipped with a 1.5KE24 Transient Voltage Suppressor. Here is a list of them available at Mouser.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> LMFAO!
> 
> Irish River Side-Step!


....you crack me up!! when u told Me... Bill ...and ..Lil Pro Street,to kick you off the car when you were changing the fuse!!! I said once we get him down ....LOL..who is going to get us off of him!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Are you Kats for real woodsmith and rbgrn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!trying to ban me from the forum already......what goes!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Sean,
> 
> Haven't spoke with you all day. Dan called we straightened it all out. It's all good, unless Mark needs an eye gammy! LOL. Dan said he made the tach wiring mistake. No biggy.
> 
> I will try to get the new wire design complete before friday, if so we can go back to the Valley this Saturday. If not, we will go back on the 21st of May.


..He told me today what went down!!!! we are all Good!!!


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


>


........Look @ Uncle Bill!!!One of the ONLY people I look up to!!!...CT ...Baddess at his best!!! the guy is a billion years old and will lay down on the pavement and adjust your cars ass end like there is no tomorrow!!!!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> This thread was started by a drag racing team, we discuss things much differently, if you want us to leave just say the word and me and team is gone!


You may discuss things in a manner that is consistent with the Terms of Service guidlines I already posted. It is fair that some other members also tested those rules ealier in the thread which is why you now have three moderators doing their best to monitor this discussion.



SPL_PIMP said:


> ....I...Sean Paul Lyddy!!!promise to take it slow on this board!!!...Scouts Honor!!! ...Is this like a pledge night ...cause ..I am kinda feeling a little SPECIAL!!!


That would be a great help.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Whoaaa! Take it easy killer! We can move all of Team Haiyin's info to another forum if you wish. A matter of fact I could start a drag racing EV forum if you like. Don't smack a gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> Your comments about politeness and disagreements seemed to be one sided at times. We/I have been getting hammered by some of your members for months, I see no warning to them?
> 
> This thread was started by a drag racing team, we discuss things much differently, if you want us to leave just say the word and me and team is gone!


Why do you assume his comments were only directed at you? I think it was a general statement to all involved. The giant chip on your shoulder must be skewing your viewpoint. Also, while this thread and build are interesting you have been getting far more useful info from it than the rest of us, so if you take your toys and leave you'll be losing out, not us. We've been graciously taking you through the basics of EV building for months while dealing with your ego and trash talking. You have an obvious pattern that has repeated itself on this board, the EVDL, and the NEDRA board. Ever wonder what the common denominator is? We'd all like to help you make your car go faster in spite of yourself, but if you leave the board I doubt any of us will give a crap. Eventually someone else will come along with the same idea and probably a better personality and we'll help them as well.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Whoaaa! Take it easy killer! We can move all of Team Haiyin's info to another forum if you wish. A matter of fact I could start a drag racing EV forum if you like. Don't smack a gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> Your comments about politeness and disagreements seemed to be one sided at times. We/I have been getting hammered by some of your members for months, I see no warning to them?
> 
> This thread was started by a drag racing team, we discuss things much differently, if you want us to leave just say the word and me and team is gone!


Every time an administrator has commented on this thread, I have assumed that the warning included me. 

Later,
Keith

P.S. Still no pictures, videos, or *anything* from Englishtown.
Still no ECEDRA acknowledgement of any other member completing a single pass at any of the EVents you have held.


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## SPL_PIMP (Apr 26, 2011)

Good morning to everyone on the board TODAY!!!!....Jeeez hope i said the wright thing!!!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

SPL_PIMP said:


> Good morning to everyone on the board TODAY!!!!....Jeeez hope i said the wright thing!!!


I'm offended


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have a wake up call for you and NEDRA, I can care less what they think. I respect some on this forum, but not all. The "chip on my shoulder" is a monster ego because I know how to promote and run a business. You have been "graciously" taking me down the road of basic EV building, LMFAO! I have been attacked many many more times by NEDRA insiders lurking on this site trying to damage my image, their PATTERNS are obvious, and that is the common denominator. 

You may know "some Basic" EV information that I did not, but drag racing you have no clue. So, what is the solution? Deal with you and your NEDRA stealth squad or leave this board. Hmmmn???? For now I will stay and teach some of you how to build an EV Drag Car and hope some will build and race. 

I am not here for a talent contest, I am here because I mean business! 

If I offend some of you, then skip this thread, very simple. I skip many threads because I think they are useless to me. 



JRP3 said:


> Why do you assume his comments were only directed at you? I think it was a general statement to all involved. The giant chip on your shoulder must be skewing your viewpoint. Also, while this thread and build are interesting you have been getting far more useful info from it than the rest of us, so if you take your toys and leave you'll be losing out, not us. We've been graciously taking you through the basics of EV building for months while dealing with your ego and trash talking. You have an obvious pattern that has repeated itself on this board, the EVDL, and the NEDRA board. Ever wonder what the common denominator is? We'd all like to help you make your car go faster in spite of yourself, but if you leave the board I doubt any of us will give a crap. Eventually someone else will come along with the same idea and probably a better personality and we'll help them as well.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Am I one of the "NEDRA Plants" you keep referring to? Let me make this clear (again) I have no affiliation with any organization that has anything to do with EV's or drag racing. I have no EV. I have no immediate plans to build, race, or attend EV races. I have not been to one of the test n tunes you glom onto and call events, nor have I been to any other EV related event.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I have a wake up call for you and NEDRA, I can care less what they think. I respect some on this forum, but not all.


This board does not represent NEDRA, nor are there many NEDRA members here that I'm aware of.


> The "chip on my shoulder" is a monster ego because I know how to promote and run a business.


You certainly don't know how to promote your drag racing organization with all the ill will you create. Terrible way to promote a business.


> You have been "graciously" taking me down the road of basic EV building, LMFAO! I have been attacked many many more times by NEDRA insiders lurking on this site trying to damage my image, their PATTERNS are obvious, and that is the common denominator.
> 
> You may know "some Basic" EV information that I did not, but drag racing you have no clue. So, what is the solution? Deal with you and your NEDRA stealth squad or leave this board. Hmmmn???? For now I will stay and teach some of you how to build an EV Drag Car and hope some will build and race.


 Most of us don't give a crap about how to build a drag car, so you provide nothing. I like to see EV's go fast, but I have little interest in spending my money to do so, I'll bet most here feel the same. There are probably far more people who know how to build a drag car than know how to build an EV. Bottom line, you threatened to leave this board and I guess you expected us to be heartbroken. As they say, don't threaten us with a good time 
I don't care if you act like a giant A-hole half the time, I know you can't help yourself. Because of that there are probably some who hope you fail, I'm not one of them, however I will be happy to give you a dose of reality once in a while.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Oops, sorry D, I got my post off before I saw yours.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Timing can be a pain sometimes

I moved my message further down in the hopes that the situation can be diffused:

Lets try and give Ron a little breathing space for now, and maybe we can avoid the personality discussions as that tends to quickly drag off into tangents. I don't mind if he wants to walk around with a big ego, chip on his shoulder or some other thing, so long as he does it elsewhere.

I would even welcome SPL_PIMP back to the forum after his 'vacation' ends, so long as he checks the off color remarks at the door.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Your full of it! Most here know that I am being attacked by the NEDRA "inner" clan. My past and current business proves the fact I know how to grow a reputable business. My moving company is an A+ BBB Rated company here in CT. That speaks a thousand posts.

I have now come to the conclusion this is not the place for posting info on drag racing ev's. I may post time slips here and there, but I am pretty much done with this board. Have a nice life! 



JRP3 said:


> This board does not represent NEDRA, nor are there many NEDRA members here that I'm aware of.You certainly don't know how to promote your drag racing organization with all the ill will you create. Terrible way to promote a business. Most of us don't give a crap about how to build a drag car, so you provide nothing. I like to see EV's go fast, but I have little interest in spending my money to do so, I'll bet most here feel the same. There are probably far more people who know how to build a drag car than know how to build an EV. Bottom line, you threatened to leave this board and I guess you expected us to be heartbroken. As they say, don't threaten us with a good time
> I don't care if you act like a giant A-hole half the time, I know you can't help yourself. Because of that there are probably some who hope you fail, I'm not one of them, however I will be happy to give you a dose of reality once in a while.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*Team Haiyin EV Racing has completed the upgrades to fuses, grounds, and 2/0 cables.*


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## Sutitan (Feb 23, 2009)

Keep us updated with results!

Do you plan on slowly working up the power slowly or going for a full on run first shot? Regardless, im looking forward to it.


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

What happen here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQe-sB5-LJo&feature=player_embedded


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Ouch, that's not good. Hope the driver is OK.


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

yeah that really sucks. Is the driver OK? The car just looks like it needs a little love to get back on the track.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

I hope that the battery pack and high voltage cables where mounted solid.

I'm not sure if this is the case with all the rush in this project.


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

In the one snapshot (looking over the car from front to rear) it looks like the front wheels have a boatload of toe-out. Could be just because of the camera angle, but if it was inadvertently run with a lot of toe-out (or if something came loose) then that might explain the loss of control. 

Hope the driver is ok - everything else looks pretty fixable.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hope you're ok Ron.
The car can be rebuilt but not so easy with people.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The other day I was talking to a guy who drags his rat rod and he was telling me how he didn't have his rear suspension set up square and the car wanted to pull really hard to one side on hard acceleration. The way the Camaro shot off to the right on the first pass makes me wonder if something similar might be going on.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Maybe an axle snapped and all the power went to one side.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Guys,

I am fine, something in the rear (shock or link) broke during my launch, the car was all over the track and flipped. We are investigating the cause. The only damage was to the roof (which is now getting a new clip) and the front control arms bent while flipping. The car never hit any walls so the sides, nose, and rear are fine. The battery pack stayed intact and I even drove the car into the trailer. We have already ordered the new TRZ controll arms this time with drop spindles and plan on lowering the car. We also are adding a wishbone to the rear suspension. It was a wild ride! The car will be racing again in a few weeks.

Sorry NEDRA, I ain't done yet!


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> It was a wild ride!


Understatement of the year.
Gerhard
Relieved that you are OK. G.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

CroDriver said:


> I'm not sure if this is the case with all the rush in this project.


Cro, what "rush" ? The car was built in months not days.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

GerhardRP said:


> Understatement of the year.
> Gerhard
> Relieved that you are OK. G.


 Thank you! Just a bump on the knee, and some sparks in the face while the car slid down the track on it's roof! Hey, I passed th 1/4 mile on my roof @ 20 seconds, we have the slip. LOL


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

New world record category for ECEDRA, fastest full sized car to do a quarter mile on it's roof!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

etischer said:


> Maybe an axle snapped and all the power went to one side.


I don't think an axle snapped, but something internal with the shock. We cannot see any damage from the outside, but my guys heard a loud bang when I let it rip. 

The car launch so hard, I left off the pedal and she still was swinging left to right. Tried to calm her down, but the launch was too powerful. 

I have raced many many cars and never had a suspension turn a car like that? The torque two 11" motors put out is enormous, we must tame this lion.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

TigerNut said:


> In the one snapshot (looking over the car from front to rear) it looks like the front wheels have a boatload of toe-out. Could be just because of the camera angle, but if it was inadvertently run with a lot of toe-out (or if something came loose) then that might explain the loss of control.
> 
> Hope the driver is ok - everything else looks pretty fixable.


Yes, both control arms bent, the car bounced from the roof to the tires/rims/control arms and back to the roof. The frame is still square, I have an awesome roll cage!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> The other day I was talking to a guy who drags his rat rod and he was telling me how he didn't have his rear suspension set up square and the car wanted to pull really hard to one side on hard acceleration. The way the Camaro shot off to the right on the first pass makes me wonder if something similar might be going on.


We had it square and set up perfectly, remember this is not our first day of launching. Something broke which caused the sharp turn.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I was on the road most of today, drove to Spencer, NY over 270 miles away to purchase a new roof clip from another Camaro.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Woodsmith said:


> Hope you're ok Ron.
> The car can be rebuilt but not so easy with people.


Thanks, I'll live! 

When I was young we use to drive demolition derby in my town, I am use to a few bumps and bangs.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's near my area, I'm surprised you couldn't find something closer. I guess there aren't as many Camaro's of that vintage lying around any more.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> That's near my area, I'm surprised you couldn't find something closer. I guess there aren't as many Camaro's of that vintage lying around any more.


Just got home, long ride on route 17, way up in the woods this guy sells Camaro parts. Found him on Ebay and jumped in the van. Great price for a roof clip with no rust, $150.00. We will cut off the old roof and install the new roof in the next few days. I will post before and after pictures for you guys.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Honestly, I knew we built a strong solid car, but was a little nervous about the pack after flipping a few times, but she is A okay, no damage at all. Everything in the sealed lexan is glued into place, nothing moved. 

After the car stopped sliding down the track, the first thing I did was jump out and check the pack. When we returned to the pits, I clicked on and off all contactors, all worked fine and drove her into the trailer.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I was a little worried about the track being nervous now about EV Racing, not at all, Wayne called me the next day to see how I was feeling and we spoke for awhile, EV are more than welcome. Drag Cars flip all the time, it just happens because shit breaks and with the wide tires it is very hard to controll. He said it was the cleanest accident the track has ever had.

Last Saturday some guy hit the wall and spewed oil and gas all over the track.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Since I am the "hot" topic on the NEDRA board I will respond polity here for their members can see.
___________________________________________________

--- In [email protected], Mike Willmon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> My problem is that the torque on the motor mounts tweaks my front subframe.
> In spirited driving on the street when I goose it, it yanks one way. If I
> let off hard after accelerating it jerks the other way. When I let off hard
> at the top end of the track it gives a good hard yank in that same
> direction. So, we've learned to let of slowly at the end of the track.
> But I could never figure out why I never had the torque steer problem on
> the launch like I do on the street. Well this pic says it all.
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/popupimg.php?13685
>
> No front rubber on the pavement to induce torque steer ;-)
>
> If your wheels are in the air like Ron's were, and you still have a problem
> pulling one direction, then you have tire pressure mismatch, rear suspension
> mismatch, over torquing the Posi (unless you have lockers or spool) or some
> other problem in the rear end setup, not the least of which is your shift in
> instantaneous center of gravity on launch.
>
> I seem to remember folks wondering about Ron's weight distribution. I also
> seem to remember him discounting those folks and bragging about his 20+
> years of drag racing experience. It just seems like with that much
> experience he'd have looked though all those things before even attempting
> full power burns.
>
> Mike
_________________________________________________

Mike, 

Our rear was set-up perfectly (locker), the tire pressure in both tires were at 6lbs, and the battery pack is very low and wide it does not change our center of gravity. We had it all set up and then something broke plain and simple. If you would watch all our past launches they were straight and even, check Florida.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> That's near my area, I'm surprised you couldn't find something closer. I guess there aren't as many Camaro's of that vintage lying around any more.


This is where I went today:

671 washburn rd, spencer ny 14883

Close to you?


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Was that guy suggesting that the weight of your car was biased too far to the rear? I can give numerous examples why that wouldn't be true, including that White Zombie is also very rear weight-biased.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Ron, glad you're alright. Must have been quite the ride. 

Could it be that your differential slipped back and off alignment? If I had to guess, the left side slid back. The video at 2 seconds already shows you're fishtailing. I couldn't hear any loud bang in the video either.

JR


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> This is where I went today:
> 
> 671 washburn rd, spencer ny 14883
> 
> Close to you?


I've been four wheeling in the woods near there  Buddy of mine lives not to far away, the next hill to the east I think.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Glad you're ok.

It does show that you built a strong car that kept you, the pack and the track safe after the roll. I doubt that was your first crash and I'm sure there will be the risk of more as you push the capabilities of the car. At least the safety aspect has had a real world test, and proved itself.

I used to race a bit too. Off road with modified Land Rovers and trucks and also a bit of (naughty) road racing when I was (much) younger.
I can certainly apreciate the benefit of being able to walk away from a crash and, the rare benefit, of being able to drive away.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Glad no one was hurt and that there wasn't a car in the next lane.

I was the one suggesting the weight distribution could be a contributing factor. I mentioned it recently on NEDRA, and a month ago here on diyec:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=237130&postcount=392

It's not exactly apples-to-apples comparing White Zombie to the TH Red Camaro. Here are some pics of White Zombie:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/history/2010.php (BTW I disagree with using Lexan as battery boxes, but that's another discussion.)

Note the White Zombie I estimate had 200 lbs of motor and tranny pulled out, and around 300 lbs of twin motors put in. The Zombie still has its all metal body. The pack is about 345 pounds, but almost all of it is at the trunk floor level.

The Camaro motor and accessories I estimate were around 700+ pounds. The replacement electric motors are about 1/2 that, but were put in the tunnel, well back of the original motor. In addition the Camaro has lighter front suspension components, a fiberglass front end, and lightweight front wheels -- it is possibly as much as 1000 pounds lighter on its front wheels. You now have a car with a very light front end that will move very quickly to the side compared to your typical V8 muscle car, in the event you have an uneven push at the rear. In contrast, the White Zombie actually has more mass in the nose than stock.

Anyway, my humble suggestion would be to find out what the gasser Camaros have for weight on the front vs. rear wheels, and to consider moving the batteries to the nose of the car (and possibly even the motors forward).



rochesterricer said:


> Was that guy suggesting that the weight of your car was biased too far to the rear? I can give numerous examples why that wouldn't be true, including that White Zombie is also very rear weight-biased.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

There are LOTS of drag cars out there with VERY rear-biased weight setups. Air-cooled VW's, 911 Porsches, etc. Air-cooled VW's in particular actually use this to great advantage in drag racing. The Camaro also has a longer wheelbase than a Datsun 1200, which makes a difference. 

You can't treat this as if he took a stock Camaro and shifted the weight around. The suspension setup is VERY different from stock.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Glad to hear you're ok Ron...question for you and the group...

Why not make make the Camaro AWD, by setting up a drive axle in between the front wheels, one 11" motor for each axle...

I've seen a few heavy chevy's (trailblazer ss with a turbo) in the 10's, and its partially due to the AWD launch...

Just wondering why you counted out that option...thanks.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I can see how my post wasn't 100% clear, I'll clarify.

I humbly suggest comparing the electric red Camaro's weight distribution with other heavily modified gasser Camaros that run in the 9's. I'll bet you find the gasser 9 second Camaros are much more nose heavy than it is. I think a similar weight distribution to successful racers would be a great starting point, and faster than a weight distribution that is greatly different.

The bug and 911 aren't really comparable. The motor in my old 911 was about 450 lbs, and sticks out further to the rear! That's over twice the weight of a bug motor, and the weight is further back, and the 911 has a shorter wheelbase.

I have never heard of a serious drag racer 911, and couldn't find one with a quick Google, can you point me to one? I'd like to read about it. I suspect you don't see many of them as I'm sure it is far cheaper to go as fast or faster via Ford or Chevy power. On the flip side, I see lots of them at the road racing track with corners.


rochesterricer said:


> There are LOTS of drag cars out there with VERY rear-biased weight setups. Air-cooled VW's, 911 Porsches, etc. Air-cooled VW's in particular actually use this to great advantage in drag racing. The Camaro also has a longer wheelbase than a Datsun 1200, which makes a difference.
> 
> You can't treat this as if he took a stock Camaro and shifted the weight around. The suspension setup is VERY different from stock.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

An air-cooled VW motor is lighter than a Porsche motor, but the VW also has a VERY light front end. An average man can actually lift the front end of an old A-C VW off the ground without a great deal of effort. 

The one drag 911 that stands out in my mind was one featured in Turbo magazine a decade ago. I still have the issue around somewhere. Here is the article:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0005_turp_1993_porsche_911_carerra_2/index.html


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If something broke on launch then looking at the weight distribution seems misguided at this point.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Rochesterricer: Thanks for the link. I was very impressed he was doing that with the metal bodied car and stock suspension! Even though it is designed to be tail heavy, I hear the 911 is quite a handful to get straightened out once it starts to spin.

JRP3: If the weight distribution is way off, then any vehicle can become difficult to keep straight when something breaks. There's a reason the vast majority of cars are nose heavy (drag racers included!). Here's a personal example:

I used to have a Fiero. It had a short wheelbase, wide track, and the engine behind the driver. It was quite a handful to keep it going straight when accelerating on snow. One wheel would bite, and the front end would suddenly swing to one side, and then the other wheel would bite and it would swing the other way. You were sawing back and forth on the wheel just to go straight. I've had no such trouble with my front heavy cars, they would just spin the wheels without the front wandering back and forth drama. The Fiero guys said the best thing to do with the car was to put some weight in the front trunk to calm it down.


JRP3 said:


> If something broke on launch then looking at the weight distribution seems misguided at this point.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We are adding a front pack of batteries and lowering the car, the weight distribution should get much better. We are also adding a wishbone to the rear. 



DavidDymaxion said:


> Glad no one was hurt and that there wasn't a car in the next lane.
> 
> I was the one suggesting the weight distribution could be a contributing factor. I mentioned it recently on NEDRA, and a month ago here on diyec:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=237130&postcount=392
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Minor damage, very lucky did not hit wall.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Front control arns bent (TRZ Loves Me).


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Might get a new door.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Hood Okay!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*New Roof Clip!*


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Might get a new door.


That should buff right out


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> That should buff right out


LOL, I could probably clean it up, but the doors are not that expensive. The car will be offline for a few weeks, but back with an even better look. The car will be 2" lower with the new front drop spindles and wider in the rear by 4". New rims and tires, these took a beating. 

I am glad the final paint was not completed! I will install the roof at my shop then move the car to the chassis shop for repairs and upgrades.

The roof took all the hit and with the roll bar only an inch away the damage was very little.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Good to hear that you weren't hurt. Cars can always be repaired.

Four questions for you:

1. How do you monitor the cells?

2. Have you been running the Zillas wide open in every vid we have seen?

3. How do you know that the frame is still square?

4. Where are the pics and vids from Englishtown? 


Later,
Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> Good to hear that you weren't hurt. Cars can always be repaired.
> 
> Four questions for you:
> 
> ...


I hope that helped.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

kek_63 said:


> 3. How do you know that the frame is still square? We checked at body shop.


Sorry, my bad. It looked like the car hadn't left the trailer yet, and you said you were fixing the roof before taking it to the chassis shop.

As for your other answers...  they don't really fit the thread name

And I will keep asking for your proof from Englishtown - since you called me a liar after I called the track


Keith


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

kek_63 said:


> Sorry, my bad. It looked like the car hadn't left the trailer yet, and you said you were fixing the roof before taking it to the chassis shop.
> 
> As for your other answers...  they don't really fit the thread name
> 
> ...


He admitted that his claims about Englishtown were based on his 1/8th mile performance. He hasn't really run 9's yet.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> He admitted that his claims about Englishtown were based on his 1/8th mile performance. He hasn't really run 9's yet.


What 1/8th mile performance - until I see proof of those runs I will chose to believe what the lady from the track told me.

Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You guys really need to get a life! Go back to the NEDRA forum.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*My New Coffee Table!*


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> You guys really need to get a life! Go back to the NEDRA forum.


Boogity boogity boogity-I am the NEDRA Goblin, I am out to get you! You are so fun to harass.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You seem to love making an azz of yourself. 



Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Boogity boogity boogity-I am the NEDRA Goblin, I am out to get you! You are so fun to harass.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Made me laugh though.  Those NEDRA goblins will getcha


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Boogity boogity boogity-I am the NEDRA Goblin, I am out to get you! You are so fun to harass.


Hey, I thought it was my week to be an @$$. 

Ron, at first I thought you pulled the fat wrinkle wall slicks up off the road in an attempt to match the White Zombie's range. Unfortunately, riding on the roof messes up both 1/4 mile times and range.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> You guys really need to get a life! Go back to the NEDRA forum.



Ron, I live a full, good life - don't watch much tv - the internet is my entertainment. 

Trust me, this has nothing to do with NEDRA (Yes, I am a member of their Yahoo group - just like I am a member here and at Elmoto and on many other forums that pique my interest). 

Post legitimate results from *ANY* participant of Amps Gone Wild and you will not hear one more word from me. In fact, show me *one* picture from the Englishtown EVent and I will cease and desist.

I don't have any respect for bullies or braggarts,
Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Keith,

What you are failing to understand I you are not important to me, I know your full of sheeet. I know you support NEDRA, stop with the phony posts and take a hike. I might show you one picture from our Amps Gone Wild Event, but I know you are not a honest man of his word, so I am sure you will still be a little bug on the wall.



kek_63 said:


> Ron, I live a full, good life - don't watch much tv - the internet is my entertainment.
> 
> Trust me, this has nothing to do with NEDRA (Yes, I am a member of their Yahoo group - just like I am a member here and at Elmoto and on many other forums that pique my interest).
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We have diagnosed our problem with control, the diagonal link was damaged and creating play in the rear 4 link system. We have now replaced the single broken link with the finest double wishbone made today:

http://shop.xtremeoutlaw.com/category.sc?categoryId=188


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

White Zombies range means diddly to me. I passed the 1/4 on my roof at 20 seconds still faster than most NEDRA racers. LOL. 



EVfun said:


> Hey, I thought it was my week to be an @$$.
> 
> Ron, at first I thought you pulled the fat wrinkle wall slicks up off the road in an attempt to match the White Zombie's range. Unfortunately, riding on the roof messes up both 1/4 mile times and range.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Keith,
> 
> What you are failing to understand I you are not important to me, I know your full of sheeet. I know you support NEDRA, stop with the phony posts and take a hike. I might show you one picture from our Amps Gone Wild Event, but I know you are not a honest man of his word, so I am sure you will still be a little bug on the wall.


What phony posts?

I take offense to your questioning of my honesty - what do you "know" about me that I don't?

Keith


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## redorblack (Feb 14, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> We have diagnosed our problem with control, the diagonal link was damaged and creating play in the rear 4 link system. We have now replaced the single broken link with the finest double wishbone made today:
> 
> http://shop.xtremeoutlaw.com/category.sc?categoryId=188


Glad you walked away unscathed along with the car coming out in good shape for such an incident. 

I am curious about the X-Link... have you got any links to how this works in the rear? I know how most drag racing setups work, I just can't picture this from the photo of parts and a quick search didn't find anything easily.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I see some justice needs to be posted about "Mike Dunn's" post on the NEDRA Yahoo Board:

"FYI-

I do not pretend to understand the "Chinese manufacturers family tree", but...
This thread is about RAs quest for info on home building a Turnigy pack, but he ended up with a
"Shenzhen Sea Technology Co., Ltd./Shenzhen Hai Ying Technology Co., Ltd/Herewin" battery pack.

My point is that Mr. "EVDragRacer" references his camaro and provides a link [broken] to the maniac site. As far as I can tell, the Turnigys never went into the Camaro - unless they are the same as the Herewin batteries [which is possible]

I think that the Turnigys are good batteries, I just the question the particular discussed implementation since the 'proof' may or may not have ever happened.

mikedunn"

I really don't know what is it with you NEDRA guys? You post some of the most ridiculous crap I have ever seen. You can go to the photo's here and on the ECEDRA website and find pictures of my Turnigy nano-tech pack being built WITH THE BALANCE wires. I showed hundreds of Turnigy cells out of the boxes. The current pack in my Camaro still races with the Turnigy cells. Yes, I have new cells that were designed for EV Racing, they are not ready yet but will be soon. Most Chinese Lipo companies are connected, that is all I can say. The new cells will be sold through "The Battery Shop" which is on the vendors section of this forum. I hope that clears up your mis-information.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

It works the same as a single wishbone, just much stronger.



redorblack said:


> Glad you walked away unscathed along with the car coming out in good shape for such an incident.
> 
> I am curious about the X-Link... have you got any links to how this works in the rear? I know how most drag racing setups work, I just can't picture this from the photo of parts and a quick search didn't find anything easily.


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## redorblack (Feb 14, 2011)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> It works the same as a single wishbone, just much stronger.


I think I figured it out... mounts at the front and rear of each lower link in the four link instead of having just a single diagonal link going from the front of one lower link to the rear of the other. I can definitely see how when built right that would be much stronger.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I'll have to confess I'm still confused myself. The car currently has Turnigy batteries, but you are "Team Haiyin"? I thought Haiyin implied a battery company, is that right? My confusion is why "Team Haiyin" if the car runs Turnigy batteries? (Nothing wrong with that if Haiyin is the future plan or a current sponsor, just curious if that's to advertise for a future battery or what the purpose of the team name is.)


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I see some justice needs to be posted about "Mike Dunn's" post on the NEDRA Yahoo Board:
> 
> "FYI-
> 
> ...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I figured it was the future pack sponsor, or maybe Haiyin actually makes Turnigy?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I am not at Liberty to state how the companies work together. Just remember, my first pack was from my sponsor Turnigy nano-techs, and my second pack is from my sponsor Haiyin.



JRP3 said:


> I figured it was the future pack sponsor, or maybe Haiyin actually makes Turnigy?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Body work will be completed in a few days then I will spray the car again.

New TRZ control arms (now with drop spindles)
New Strange rotors and calipers
New wishbone
New rims and tires
New tach
New battery pack design

All will be completed in about two weeks.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Also have very LARGE car name with logo for sides!

*Haiyin*
*WARP FACTOR II*


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

ECEDRA Directors and Team Haiyin EV Racing will be attending 'EVCCon' Electric Vehicle Conversion Convention in Cape Girardeau, Missouri on September 22nd thru 24th 2011. 

We will be bringing our "Warp Factor II", maybe we can do some 1/8 mile drag racing on the airstrip?


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Safety worries once again: I trust that battery box is unfinished? Those screws and duct tape won't hold the batteries in a wreck.

Also what about putting the 12V battery and lithium batteries lower in the chassis for a lower center of gravity?


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


>


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

David, you worry more than my wife. LOL. The box is not done, it will be bolted in with large metal straps. I flipped (twice) the largest Lipo pack ever built by mankind and not one cell moved, the 500lbs pack stayed intact. I appreciate the advice, and want you all to know we build battery boxes the correct way. The proof is in the pictures of my Camaro upside down and not one thing hanging or on the ground! 

We will be racing again on June 18, 2011. Get ready for quicker times, we figured a few things out while getting the new parts on! 



DavidDymaxion said:


> Safety worries once again: I trust that battery box is unfinished? Those screws and duct tape won't hold the batteries in a wreck.
> 
> Also what about putting the 12V battery and lithium batteries lower in the chassis for a lower center of gravity?


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Video and slips are coming. I have an agreement with my sponsor on releasing information on the Camaro and batteries.
> 
> All I can say is I now have the fastest 'full-body' EV that races. Under 10 seconds, possibly under 9!  The car's weight is much lighter than expected, under 2400 lbs.  I must play games until I get permission to release info, _*most likely within days*_. I am running her again this weekend at Lebanon Valley in NY.
> 
> Has anyone tried to keep a 1981 Camaro with that kind of torque front wheels on the ground? It was wheeling! Wildest Ride I have ever raced on the track. Almost snapped my neck and pooped my shorts!


57 days and counting - are we ever going to see this info, Ron?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> 57 days and counting - are we ever going to see this info, Ron?


Info has been published for ECEDRA members only on our forum. You keep counting and let me know how you make out!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Info has been published for ECEDRA members only on our forum.


Maybe the admin can change the title of this thread to* "*1981 Camaro Dragster Project - Official Tread* - Some Info*!" from "1981 Camaro Dragster Project - Official Tread* - All Info*!" as it now reads.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Info has been published for ECEDRA members only on our forum. You keep counting and let me know how you make out!


How can you possibly justify this statement in light of the ECEDRA mission statement?

http://www.ecedra.com/


What (who) is it exactly that ECEDRA is promoting?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> How can you possibly justify this statement in light of the ECEDRA mission statement?
> 
> http://www.ecedra.com/
> 
> ...


Anyone we want, any team we want. Any product we want. And we can do it when and how we want too! Any more questions?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> Maybe the admin can change the title of this thread to* "*1981 Camaro Dragster Project - Official Tread* - Some Info*!" from "1981 Camaro Dragster Project - Official Tread* - All Info*!" as it now reads.


Or maybe you can just skip the thread and move on.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Or maybe you can just skip the thread and move on.


 And now you are calling out the mods of the forum. Is there a single mutually beneficial relationship in you life you don't destroy by being a giant ass?


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Anyone we want, any team we want. Any product we want. And we can do it when and how we want too! Any more questions?



Lots more. Here are a couple to start. 

Why are the results (records) of only one ECEDRA member listed on the site? 

Exactly how many EVs have been built and serviced by the High Voltage! EV Conversion & EV Race Shop?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> And now you are calling out the mods of the forum. Is there a single mutually beneficial relationship in you life you don't destroy by being a giant ass?


Listen Toad, I can careless about you cornballs that support NEDRA, I have plenty of friends and supporters. 92 members and still counting.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> Lots more. Here are a couple to start.
> 
> Why are the results (records) of only one ECEDRA member listed on the site?
> 
> Exactly how many EVs have been built and serviced by the High Voltage! EV Conversion & EV Race Shop?


None of you business.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Hey, you asked if I had any more questions.

It is very much my business - just like it is the business of everyone who is trying to promote the acceptance of EVs as viable transportation. We need the general public to see the results of EV racing. We really need to see truth in advertising from EV suppliers and convertors.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

kek_63 said:


> Hey, you asked for more questions.
> 
> It is very much my business - just like it is the business of everyone who is trying to promote the acceptance of EVs as viable transportation. We need the general public to see the results of EV racing. We really need to see truth in advertising from EV suppliers and convertors.


Who do you think you are, the EV Police, Judge and Jury? Get a life, worry about your own business and back-off. If anyone is interested in getting business related info they can contact us thru our website. 

Like I said, we do not have to answer to you.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Who do you think you are, the EV Police, Judge and Jury? Get a life, worry about your own business and back-off. If anyone is interested in getting business related info they can contact us thru our website.
> 
> Like I said, we do not have to answer to you.


EV related businesses are critiqued on this forum all the time. You don't have to answer to me. But your answers here will be the basis for some of your potential customer's first impressions.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Lithu-If you care so little about what anyone here thinks, why are you here? If you are trying to gain fame in the EV world there are two ways to do it: politely document/share every step of the way and gain acceptance by letting others in on your journey while accomplishing spectacular things, or build in silence and shock the world by producing something that knocks the world on its collective ass. You seem to want to claim superiority while asking basic questions, sharing little, accomplishing little, and insulting those who don't believe you are the soon to be messiah of the EV world. Seriously, why are you here?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

kek_63 said:


> EV related businesses are critiqued on this forum all the time. You don't have to answer to me. But your answers here will be the basis for some of your potential customer's first impressions.


Yep-I actually laughed when I saw that you were going to be the one and only person who handles all battery sales. You guys may end up producing a cool product, but abrasive is a mild description of your online personality.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Guys just knock it off with this stupid pissing match. What do you honestly hope to accomplish with this? You aren't revealing anything which isn't already obvious.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

If Ron doesn't want to answer, he doesn't have to. Thats not a particularly good way to address critics, but its his call non the less. I must say I am at a loss to understand his business strategy and how his temper helps things.

At this point I don't think anymore pointed questions would help and it would be best to leave well enough alone.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

david85 said:


> If Ron doesn't want to answer, he doesn't have to. Thats not a particularly good way to address critics, but its his call non the less. I must say I am at a loss to understand his business strategy and how his temper helps things.
> 
> At this point I don't think anymore pointed questions would help and it would be best to leave well enough alone.


David,

That is a very "weak" response to a bunch of hecklers 
I also take offense to your bias comment about the way I run business and what info I want to release. Do your job and moderate and stop taking sides. 

If this forum does not approve of my posts, then please remove ALL my information from this forum.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> David,
> 
> That is a very "weak" response to a bunch of hecklers
> I also take offense to your bias comment about the way I run business and what info I want to release. Do your job and moderate and stop taking sides.
> ...


Ron, I am only asking you to follow through with what you said you would do in regards to Englishtown. You did, after all, make some very bold claims. How is that heckling? 

As to the number of conversions your Race Shop has completed - you publicly advertise "many". I have only seen one - that is why I ask. I would hope that any prospective customer would do the same.

Keith


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

We will no longer post on this forum!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Until your next post


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Until your next post


That cracked me up... 

Ron your announcement reminds me of Seinfeld's soup nazi: no posts for you!  And BTW, David's comments are not biased the least bit. It's amazing to me too how you can deal with customers when you have such short fuse and on the edge temper.

I saw on Jack Rickard's show that you're proposing a sanctioned drag race during the EVCCON. That's a great idea! Maybe part of your strategy is to piss everyone off between now and then to throw them off their game... if it is, it's working! J/K

Looking forward to more right-sde up Camaro pics.

JR


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I kind of wish I could go to EVCON to see how Ron and Jack get along  Might be fun.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

I have been contacted by Robert Green the owner of this forum, he apologized for the mis-handling and bias behaviour of the temporary moderator.

So, I will continue to support this forum as long as the moderators stay neutral and do their JOB.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

David and misbehaving? Where? I want to see that.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't believe that for a second. Robert must not have all the facts if he indeed said that. By the way, welcome back


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

wrong place


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

*LMFAO! *
*I will pass out the tissues later! *


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> wrong place


Too late I read it on my iphone.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I actually share the same concerns. I don't care if you stay here or not, that's your choice, but if the forum owner is caving into the demands of an advertiser and undercutting the moderators that does not bode well for the forum.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Too late I read it on my iphone.


That doesn't matter, I didn't want it posted in public because I didn't want to start an argument. I haven't posted in the threads, except the battery one, because the arguments take away from the discussion. If everyone else is happy, doesn't matter what I think. It's your world.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

THIS is what I didn't want - a discussion about this in your thread. Regardless of what I think, or how I feel, people here like your thread and what you're doing. Discussing this here will only interfere with that.

You should remove your post JRP3, and Ron you should just ignore me and my misplaced post.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Maybe, but it's not my style. Besides, it's already out there, can't erase history.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Carry on then, I gotta go to work. Sorry for causing the commotion. That wasn't my intent.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> Carry on then, I gotta go to work. Sorry for causing the commotion. That wasn't my intent.


You're making a to big of a deal out of it. Say what you want. It's surely more interesting than eeh... the topic starter


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## rbgrn (Jul 24, 2007)

Message from the administrator:

1) This discussion has become completely off-topic for the thread. Please end it here.

2) I told Ron that I was unaware of the situation and asked for URLs of the posts he found unsavory. I said that David has historically been an excellent admin and that if there was indeed an issue, I would talk to him about it. He replied and said he was busy and that he'd dig up some posts later. I never heard back. That's as far as it went. I expect all admins and moderators to be as unbiased as possible but that should go without saying.

3) I'd like to remind everyone here that if you have a personal problem with someone, please try to work it out with them over PM, not in a forum like this. The administrators and moderators of this site are volunteer members and do not represent Green Web Publishing LLC. If you believe an administrator/moderator is overstepping their bounds, please contact them via PM and try to work it out before contacting me. I do not like to get in the middle of forum affairs and simply do not have the bandwidth to read through countless posts in an effort to judge characters.

I hope everyone understands my position on these things and let's all please get along going forward!

Thanks


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Sounds good, I can live with that. I did not send URLs because I wanted it ended. Let's move forward from here and stick to the topic. The topic of this thread is a 1981 EV Camaro Project - thats it. No attacks or politics please, if you have questions for ECEDRA please follow the proper channels.



rbgrn said:


> Message from the administrator:
> 
> 1) This discussion has become completely off-topic for the thread. Please end it here.
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)




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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

rbgrn said:


> Message from the administrator:
> 
> 1) This discussion has become completely off-topic for the thread. Please end it here.
> 
> ...


Duly noted, but I'll be ignoring this thread from now on. I thought that "all info" pertaining to a purpose built "dragster" would include the actual racing results - apparently not.

Good luck racing Ron - keep the sticky side down,
Keith


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Just to let you guys know, I had to remove a few more posts in an effort to keep things civil.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

If you keep Ron here it isn't going to be civil because he will continue to piss off new people even after you ban the old ones. Make your choice: have civil threads without Ron, or if he's worth having here put up with a few threads that are not civil.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

That's disappointing David.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Nobody has been banned yet. As was mentioned before, this is Ron's thread and this is off topic. If you have further concerns it would be better to contact the forum administration directly instead of keeping things in public like this.


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

David, 

Why cant't he keep his word? If someone ask a question why can't he reply?


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## Tatsushige (Mar 24, 2011)

Bugger did I miss something here??


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

david85 said:


> Nobody has been banned yet. As was mentioned before, this is Ron's thread and this is off topic. If you have further concerns it would be better to contact the forum administration directly instead of keeping things in public like this.



This is a public forum it a DIY "Do it yourself" and not BY "BRAG YOURSELF" for BY forum go to ECEDRA.


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## Tatsushige (Mar 24, 2011)

Ronald you can removed Japan from your web site .. I'm a member of the largest EV group in Japan and I can tell you no one here would be interested in Drag Racing, as Drag Racing in Japan is as good as dead now because of drifting .. Last time there was a official Drag Race in Japan was about 1999 if my memory serves me right.


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## rbgrn (Jul 24, 2007)

Message from administrator

Locking thread to prevent further flamebait, fighting, etc.


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