# The F150 Lightning Electric - 2022



## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

Well I've been off forum for months due to family commitments, going back to "school" and writing & marketing a book.. 
But this news really got my attention. 
The Lightning F150 is out next spring and it looks like it really will be priced below $50k for the average Joe. If Ford sticks to it's promises, it might even be below 35k for a fleet purchase with federal incentives. The 230-300 mile range advertised is with a 1000 lb payload or tow I believe. Ford seems to take the opposite attitude to most ev manufacturers and gives a conservative estimate of range. 
If this truck can do what it says, it may be the biggest breakthrough in the ev market since the Tesla model S. 
For me, it introduces a new opportunity to pursue my dream of building an electric Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator. Look at the picture of the rolling chassis. Its wheelbase is 12 inches longer than the Navigator L. I wonder how much a wrecked Lightning would cost once they've become abundant on American roads? One could aquire a salvage model and take the cab and bed off. You'd need to chop 12 inches off from the middle of the frame and move one of the "single deck" battery modules to a "double deck" I suppose. You could then get a high mileage or blown engine/transmission Navigator L. Take it off it's chassis and pop it on the shortened Lightning chassis. Take out the Lightnings' dash and fancy centre console. Put them in the Navigator and Bob's your uncle... I wonder if anyone else is thinking the same?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Why? By the time you're done futzing, Ford will have the full truck chassis offering.


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

Yes Remy, I thought about that too and wondered if there would be any point my build. But there's one point - the price... 
An entry level Navigator is $76k now (up to $102k for the Black Label edition). When Ford releases the electric version maybe next year, it'll surely cost more than $90k for the entry level model. I think I could put my model together for under $35k. Then of course there is the "fun" of the build... 😊


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

I would give it 20% chance that Ford can deliver the specs (including price) they promise, and 10% that they will do it in the next 6 months.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

DrGee said:


> The 230-300 mile range advertised is with a 1000 lb payload or tow I believe.


That seems exceptionally unlikely to me. Auto manufacturers never publish range or fuel consumption with a load, and especially not with a trailer, regardless of the fuel. Manufacturers are not legally required to publish fuel consumption information for heavier vehicles (such as Ford's SuperDuty pickups)... so they don't. The key to selling stuff with poor performance is to never mention the performance.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

cricketo said:


> I would give it 20% chance that Ford can deliver the specs (including price) they promise, and 10% that they will do it in the next 6 months.


_"Ford and Rivian have abandoned a plan they had to jointly develop an EV together. In an interview with Automotive News, Ford CEO Jim Farley said the automaker will go it alone as it aims to produce 600,000 vehicles per year by the end of 2023."_









Ford and Rivian cancel plan to jointly develop an EV


Ford and Rivian have abandoned a plan they had to jointly develop an EV together. In an interview with Automotive News, Ford CEO Jim Farley said the automaker will go it alone as it aims to produce 600,000 vehicles per year by the end of 2023. When the company invested $500 million in Rivian in...




techcrunch.com





They'll deliver...it's Toyota that's gunna get F'd (stock symbol pun intended)


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

The Spring will reveal who crapped where, as well as if Ford can deliver anything


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

cricketo said:


> I would give it 20% chance that Ford can deliver the specs (including price) they promise, and 10% that they will do it in the next 6 months.


Both questions are valid. But I'm cautiously optimistic...


brian_ said:


> That seems exceptionally unlikely to me. Auto manufacturers never publish range or fuel consumption with a load, and especially not with a trailer, regardless of the fuel. Manufacturers are not legally required to publish fuel consumption information for heavier vehicles (such as Ford's SuperDuty pickups)... so they don't. The key to selling stuff with poor performance is to never mention the performance.





brian_ said:


> That seems exceptionally unlikely to me. Auto manufacturers never publish range or fuel consumption with a load, and especially not with a trailer, regardless of the fuel. Manufacturers are not legally required to publish fuel consumption information for heavier vehicles (such as Ford's SuperDuty pickups)... so they don't. The key to selling stuff with poor performance is to never mention the performance.


You may be right Brian, but I must say there have been numerous reports about the 1000 lb payload and Ford's underestimated range quote. Here's one from InsideEvs:








Ford F-150 Lightning Impresses In Our Factory Tour And Test Ride


We take a ride in the Ford F-150 Lightning and get to tour Ford's Rough Electric Vehicle Center and get a close look at the Mega Power Frunk.




insideevs.com




Maybe it's all marketing hype, but I hope it's not..


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

DrGee said:


> For me, it introduces a new opportunity to pursue my dream of building an electric Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator.


Or you could just buy a Rivian SUV or GMC Hummer EV SUV; Rivian has early production trucks built so the SUV should follow soon, the Hummer pickup is ahead of the Ford pickup so the Hummer SUV should be ahead of any Ford SUV on the same platform.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

brian_ said:


> Or you could just buy a Rivian SUV or GMC Hummer EV SUV; Rivian has early production trucks built so the SUV should follow soon, the Hummer pickup is ahead of the Ford pickup so the Hummer SUV should be ahead of any Ford SUV on the same platform.


Hummer EV is more like a joke vehicle, especially if you look at the price.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

DrGee said:


> You may be right Brian, but I must say there have been numerous reports about the 1000 lb payload and Ford's underestimated range quote. Here's one from InsideEvs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The claim about the range being in loaded condition in that article refers to another article, in which there is no such claim in the text. It appears to come from the video in the second article, but I didn't even watch that because the 14 minutes of talking head won't likely have any authoritative reference - it's not an interview from anyone with Ford or a report of anything published by Ford. It's probably Ford marketing, by the current method of feeding nonsense to internet "influencers", whose common characteristic is that they are easily influenced themselves by rumours, favours, and outright payments rather than facts. "Numerous reports" often just means a bunch of people repeating the same nonsense that they want to believe, all based on the same single bit of fiction.

The first article mentions the range estimate from the dashboard screen. That's meaningless, since it could be based on any driving conditions, and isn't even from the production version of the software.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Order one and you'll see the options. The Lightning is the only real truck so far out of Cybrtrk, Rivian, Hummer, Lightning.

Optional 10,000 pound towing, iirc. I almost plunked down for one, but may piss that money away on an electric truck conversion that I may never finish 😂 Gregski's kicking my motivation in the butt right now, so he'll be to blame for me not having a Lightning.

Silverado and RAM are vaporware - GM made a huge blunder (they always do, it seems), by not leading with a pickup truck offering. They didn't realize how real the EV market is, or tye reduced cost of manufacturing over ICE. Ford now does...and Tesla and Rivian will be relegated to niche when Ford clears their huge backlog. The Lightning fleet model (for tradespeople) is $27 grand if the Senate approves the bill the House just passed.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

remy_martian said:


> The Lightning is the only real truck so far out of Cybrtrk, Rivian, Hummer, Lightning.


I don't know how you define a "real truck", surely F150 Lightning looks like a truck look everyone is accustomed to, but... given its electric drive train, that will be a problem. I mean we've been over this a thousand times, especially with the conversions on this forum - you can't shove EV guts into an ICE vehicle and expect it to perform in all aspects. You can have performance, but you can't have range. Trucks, naturally, have even more problems. Not only the brick-style aerodynamics is bad for your range, but so is the heavy frame intended for hauling heavy stuff both in the bed and behind it.

Cybertruck really is THE ONLY EV truck in the list. Others may lack truckiness, or EVness, but CT is the only one that is expected to combine the two worlds. Sure, it may seem to compromise some of the traditional truckiness, but most of it is either superficial or has workarounds. Those are still very necessary compromises to make for the good EVness.


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

brian_ said:


> The claim about the range being in loaded condition in that article refers to another article, in which there is no such claim in the text. It appears to come from the video in the second article, but I didn't even watch that because the 14 minutes of talking head won't likely have any authoritative reference - it's not an interview from anyone with Ford or a report of anything published by Ford. It's probably Ford marketing, by the current method of feeding nonsense to internet "influencers", whose common characteristic is that they are easily influenced themselves by rumours, favours, and outright payments rather than facts. "Numerous reports" often just means a bunch of people repeating the same nonsense that they want to believe, all based on the same single bit of fiction.
> 
> The first article mentions the range estimate from the dashboard screen. That's meaningless, since it could be based on any driving conditions, and isn't even from the production version of the software.


Unfortunately, until independent reviewers get their hands on them to perform actual loaded & towing tests, it's all nothing more than journalistic jibber-jabber.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Ford is not going to take a risk with fleet managers or with their reputation as No 1 truck manufacturer by falling short on tow ratings. They aren't Tesla.

If GM, Ford, or Dodge state GTW, it's a legally binding rating that the vehicle owner pays for - a hefty premium in the case of the Lightning.

If Elon Musk claims a Model X can tow an airliner, it's bullshit (the car is RATED at 5,000 lb). As is Ford towing a train car with a pickup truck in response to Musk. That is NOT the tow rating.


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

Quite right Remy, 
Anyway, spring 2022 is round the corner- Hopefully the truth will be revealed..


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Meanwhile Rivian suspended (or delayed? depending on how you look at it) deliveries until late next year...


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

They made their money on the IPO and Ford dropped them like a steaming poopie.

If they really are delayed to late next year, stick a fork in 'em...first mover advantage...gone


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Rivian has delayed the first R1S deliveries; that's the SUV. In the recent (last couple of days) news coverage I see no mention of further delays to the R1T (the pickup truck), which is the only Rivian model in production. The R1T is relevant to the Ford F-150 Lightning because it overlaps in market and has preceded the Lightning in (limited) production (although not yet substantial deliveries).

As for the plan to put a large SUV body on a "full size" battery-electric pickup... the R1S remains ahead of a potential Ford production vehicle of this style (although there are several SUV EVs in production now), and will still likely beat any DIY project requiring a Lightning donor.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

If the only difference between a Lightning and an F-150 is the front clip (assume same frame mounting points and steering etc for the body), the tooling change to go to the F-150 SUV is trivial.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

The only major body difference between a Lightning and an F-150 is the front clip, so an SUV on the Lightning platform is easy... except that the Expedition body is not quite the same as an F-150 body (there isn't a single external body panel in common), and the longest Expedition wheelbase (3,343 mm or 131.6") is much shorter than the only Lightning wheelbase (3696 mm or 145.5") and the extra length can't be cut out of the Lightning without losing battery capacity. 

As a DIY project, I think that it would likely be easier to do a limousine stretch on an Expedition Max body to fit an unmodified Lightning donor than to shorten the Lightning chassis.

Yes, Ford could build a Lightning SUV quickly if they wanted to, but I have not seen any indication that they are interested in doing so... so it will be years.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

I didn't say Expedition. Expedition is on the Superduty chassis, not the F-150.

EDIT: WAS Superduty. Seems they can turn an SUV on a dime if there was demand for one. Being a gas guzzler, maybe a 80 MPGe Thunder may have that demand...









FORD EXPEDITION THUNDER: THE PERFORMANCE SUV TWIN OF F-150 LIGHTNING TRUCK


Ford Expedition Thunder performance SUV was a mechanical twin to the legendary Ford F-150 Lightning pickup truck that never made production.




www.musclecarsandtrucks.com


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

remy_martian said:


> I didn't say Expedition. Expedition is on the Superduty chassis, not the F-150.


You said "the F-150 SUV", and the Expedition is the SUV which has always been on the same platform as the F-150 (although sometimes lagging in generation, and in recent generations with IRS). The Expedition was never SuperDuty - the SuperDuty-based SUV was the Excursion. The "E" names can make it difficult to keep the Ford SUVs (including the Explorer, Escape, and Edge) all straight, and "Expedition" and "Excursion" are particularly close.

Yes, it would probably be technically easy for Ford (or even a DIY builder) to put an SUV body (which is the Expedition) on the Lightning chassis... if that chassis were short enough, and it's not. Unlike an ICE pickup, the frame cannot be easily made shorter, because the battery fills the available length, instead of having relatively empty space.

The old Expedition SVT Thunder using some parts usually available only the F-150 was a minor variation of the regular Expedition, as the Expedition was then (as always) on the F-150 platform.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Yeah, you're right. Excursion is what I was thinking.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Ford F-150 Lightning customer deliveries pushed back to Q3 2022


Ford representatives and DriveElectricTN recently held a webinar where several of the automaker’s key upcoming all-electric vehicles were discussed. While the event was primarily focused on fleets and fleet managers, Ford representatives James Morgan and Nathan Gyori provided some key updates...




www.teslarati.com


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

cricketo said:


> Ford F-150 Lightning customer deliveries pushed back to Q3 2022
> 
> 
> Ford representatives and DriveElectricTN recently held a webinar where several of the automaker’s key upcoming all-electric vehicles were discussed. While the event was primarily focused on fleets and fleet managers, Ford representatives James Morgan and Nathan Gyori provided some key updates...
> ...


The article seems to have been removed - the link now just gets a 404 error and a search in Teslarati for "Ford F-150 Lightning customer deliveries pushed back to Q3" finds nothing. Search the web for the same title on other sites and there are a few, apparently re-posts of the Telsarati content, such as the copy in Autobody News.


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

brian_ said:


> The article seems to have been removed - the link now just gets a 404 error and a search in Teslarati for "Ford F-150 Lightning customer deliveries pushed back to Q3" finds nothing.


Yup, seems like they've removed it. There was one comment saying Ford's comms director replied on Twitter saying there is no delay, so perhaps the author recognized the error and dropped it. Will see.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

cricketo said:


> I don't know how you define a "real truck", surely F150 Lightning looks like a truck look everyone is accustomed to, but... given its electric drive train, that will be a problem.
> 
> * * *
> Cybertruck really is THE ONLY EV truck in the list. Others may lack truckiness, or EVness, but CT is the only one that is expected to combine the two worlds.


Just spotted this in town.

Let's see your Cyber"truck" do this rather mundane TRUCK task, fanboy 😂


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## cricketo (Oct 4, 2018)

Yeah, that's going to be a problem. I better cancel my pre-order.


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