# ZX-E the Bike



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

My roommate (Alex, a4111) and me have been planning a conversion since January. I want to start a thread on our Kawasaki ZX-9R conversion. The bike is sitting in our garage right now with a warp 8 [now dual k91-4003s] inside the down-tubes. I also have 200 headway p cells sitting in my room. We're looking at a 156 [now 96 volt] volt setup using a synkromotive controller. 

Check out the thread for the speed calculator I originally made to find the ideal gear ratio for the ninja project and a Rav4 at evcomponents:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ev-calculator-36920.html


I'll post any questions we have about the project here if you guys don't mind .


----------



## Big-Foot (Jun 8, 2008)

Just got my 93 ZX6E Donor yesterday....

Mine will be a 72v DC-Series system with AGM batteries (Optima Yellow).

I hope you have access to someone who can weld aluminum.


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

Sweet! How much did you get it for?

I do know a guy who does aluminum welding; albeit 5/8 thick aluminum, so it's going to be tricky. We're planning on using the motor mount design and build process as our senior Mechanical Engineering project.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

note: 38120P cells are the 8Ah Headway cells, for people that didn't know.

Can't wait to see it Rich, its going to be a fun project.


----------



## Big-Foot (Jun 8, 2008)

ZX-E said:


> Sweet! How much did you get it for?
> 
> I do know a guy who does aluminum welding; albeit 5/8 thick aluminum, so it's going to be tricky. We're planning on using the motor mount design and build process as our senior Mechanical Engineering project.


I've got a few hundred in it. The bike's never been down and has less than 20k on it. New tires and brakes - plastic is all in pretty good shape. 

5/8" thick aluminum - wow... That would take quite a welder to do that...
My Miller TIG will only go up to 200 amps and that's about 1/4" thick Aluminum that I could weld.

I'm going to be looking into other battery technology than the AGM. I would really like to get to the point where I could go 50-60 miles at 60 MPH.


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

We're putting bearings inside the aluminum. It's going to be pretty complicated. But what I'm really not sure how to do is mount the batteries to the frame. If there's a will there's a way right?

At 60 mph with 196 8 amp hour cells I'm looking at about a fifty mile range . They aren't the most energy dense cells, but four of them in parallel can do 500 amps (battery side) easily at about 15 C which is all I need for peak power motor side.

Here's the electrical portion of a calculator I made in excel that I used to come up with those numbers:


----------



## Big-Foot (Jun 8, 2008)

ZX-E said:


> We're putting bearings inside the aluminum.


You lost me on that one...



> It's going to be pretty complicated. But what I'm really not sure how to do is mount the batteries to the frame. If there's a will there's a way right?


Build a carriage out of angle aluminum or steel. If steel - just bolt it up to your frame.. The fuel tanks are larger than you might expect if the bottom is cut out... 



> At 60 mph with 196 8 amp hour cells I'm looking at about a fifty mile range . They aren't the most energy dense cells, but four of them in parallel can do 500 amps (battery side) easily at about 15 C which is all I need for peak power motor side.
> 
> Here's the electrical portion of a calculator I made in excel that I used to come up with those numbers:


500 amps is a BUNCH...


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

Yea I should have clarified. The chain on the motor goes to an intermediate jackshaft mounted on bearings, the shaft has another sprocket on it that drives the wheel. This is for a few obvious reasons. One, so the warp 8 doesn't stick out of one side of the motorcycle half a foot. Two, so the motor isn't right where your feet are. And three, so we can keep the drive sprocket right where it originally was. You can see screenshots of a 3D Solidworks drawing of it on the project website: www.hvbikes.com. (The website is kind of a mess right now, but I'll pull it together in the next few months).


Yea and 700 amps motor side!


----------



## Qer (May 7, 2008)

frodus said:


> note: 38120P cells are the 8Ah Headway cells, for people that didn't know.


When I googled on 38120P I got 10Ah, 10C nominal and 20C max. Pretty ok I guess, but 200 Amps sounds low. On the other hand, maybe 200 Amps isn't low for an MC...


----------



## Big-Foot (Jun 8, 2008)

Bearing - Understood now with the Jackshaft.. My motor will protrude "some" on the right side without a jackshaft - but some to think of it, it would be easier to change ratios with a a jack... Hmmm..

Batteries - Interesting racks. How will you attach the metal straps to the cells?


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

Big-Foot said:


> Batteries - Interesting racks. How will you attach the metal straps to the cells?


The bus bars are installed with screws that are already on the cells.


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

Qer said:


> When I googled on 38120P I got 10Ah, 10C nominal and 20C max. Pretty ok I guess, but 200 Amps sounds low. On the other hand, maybe 200 Amps isn't low for an MC...


There are going to be 4 in parallel. So it's 800 amps peak; and the 20C max is actually pretty conservative for these cells.

38120P are 8Ah. The s cells are the 10Ah ones.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I mean, 20C is good for a cell..... its only a 10Ah cell, so 200A is pretty damn good.


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

Chinoz 156V 7 amp charger instructions. These are pretty new at EVComponents. I think some people have had questions about them.


----------



## ngrimm (Oct 19, 2007)

Looking at the specs for the Warp 8 the case length is 14.69"? The case on my 7.5" series motor is about 12" and it only extends to the inside edge of the brake pedal on my '90 zx10. The sprocket is pretty close to where it was on the ice and I was able to use the original chain. Maybe the frame is wider on my bike. I'm only running 72 volts x 85 ah lead acid so 500/2 = 250 to account for peukert and using 4:1 gearing and I top out at 60 mph but it has plenty of power with one exception. From a dead stop. I really wish I had some kind of small two speed transmission. I think if I ever need a jack shaft I will look into possible transmission that would serve both purposes. I was thinking about an overdrive units like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/land...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item58839b0b28


----------



## Sutitan (Feb 23, 2009)

ZX-E said:


> Chinoz 156V 7 amp charger instructions. These are pretty new at EVComponents. I think some people have had questions about them.


I recognize that charger. I plan on using the 2000W version for my conversion.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_33&products_id=109

I cant seem to find the charger on EVcomponents site though. Only see one for 650 (unless they are selling the 1500W charger for 650!)


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

We put the first battery pack together yesterday


----------



## Big-Foot (Jun 8, 2008)

Updates? 

The eNinja project is off to a slow start here... Waiting for the title to finish transferring into my name before I do anything of any substance. 
Literally all the parts are lined up now and I have a better battery weight distribution plan that I will show you soon.


----------



## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Cool project 



ZX-E said:


> There are going to be 4 in parallel. So it's 800 amps peak; and the 20C max is actually pretty conservative for these cells.
> 
> 38120P are 8Ah. The s cells are the 10Ah ones.


What do you mean with conservative?

5C










10C










15C










The voltage sag @ 15C is pretty heavy.

I'm thinking about replacing my ThunderSky batteries in my car with this Headway cells. When I'm calculating the power output I'm using 15C as the maximum


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> Cool project
> What do you mean with conservative?
> 
> 5C
> ...


A 20C peak is a little conservative. A recent customer tested these cells at almost 50C for 7 seconds. The voltage does sag, but they deliver current. Its not bad for these 10Ah cells. 20C peak currents for a few seconds is going to be just fine. The graphs you posted are continuous current graphs.

So far, they're good cells and customers have been happy. I can't wait to do some more testing.


----------



## ZX-E (Aug 31, 2009)

Unfortunately, the warp 8 motor took up too much useful battery space and resulted in the need for an intermediate shaft and bearings to keep the motor inside the fairings which created a few unexpected issues. The forces on the bearings ended up being significantly larger than that on the motor shafts which meant nearly 3 inch diameter bearings would have been needed to be reliable. The bike has gone through quite a few design changes. It's going to run on two k91-4003 motors now. 

Here's the new design. It's simple and the batteries and motors are both bolted into the original motor mounts!


----------

