# EVSR compared to Formula E



## EVSR (Aug 12, 2014)

Now that the second Formula E race is completed we wanted to make a few comparisons.

1) Formula E claims a top speed of approximately 150 MPH. Proven top speed appears to be around 110 on the Putrajaya course.
1) EVSR top speed is a proven 140MPH at Pocono and on a road course we have exceed 125 mph at Summit Point and Virginia International Raceway and achieved 120MPH at every other track we run.

2) Formula E range appears to be approximately 25 miles at very reduced power settings with a fast lap speed of 66 MPH (full power qualifying speed was 68MPH)
2) EVSR has done 57 miles at Lime Rock Park (LRP) on a single charge averaging 78 MPH. In testing we did a full hour covering 72 miles at LRP. Qualifying lap speed at full power at LRP was 90 MPH.
2a) EVSR averaged a speed of 100.8MPH on Watkins Glen International during a fast lap and averaged 86.3 MPH on its fast lap at Summit Point Raceway. 

While we understand that Formula E runs on contrived street courses, and are therefore theoretically slower, there are many claims of speed that don't seem to be substantiated in the coverage. An example is that on the front straight of the Putrajaya course it is claimed that the cars will _easily_ reach 200 KPH but in fact only displayed 175 KPH (109MPH) for a brief moment on the telemetry that was shown to us. Real data and facts was very limited in the broadcasts.

Not only that, but we built 2 EVSRs, tested them and campaigned them for more than 30 days on track in a single season, won races against gas cars and set records wherever we went. Our entire program from start to now (12 months) cost less than 1/4 the cost of a _single_ Formula E car.

It is possible that a Formula E car _might_ be faster than EVSR. On the other hand the series seems determined to avoid direct comparison at any venue with existing data available. Who knows, maybe we ARE faster. BRING IT ON.

EVSR would welcome any formula E driver to try an EVSR and we would pit our EVSRs against a Formula E car any day of the week on a real race course to allow for real comparative data.

*Spread the word and spread the challenge.*

Hard Numbers:

Formula E (using data from Round 2 at Putrajaya) 
Fastest qualifying lap: 1:22 on a 2.5km (1.55mi) circuit is 110kph (68.3mph)
Fastest race lap: 1:24.4 is 107kph (66.3mph) 
Fastest speed displayed by in-car telemetry: 175kph (109mph). 
Claimed top speed: 225kph (140mph)
Race distance: 31 laps @ 2.5km/lap = 77.5km (48miles) in 51.2 minutes is 88.5kph (54.8mph) average speed *using 2 cars to complete the race.*

EVSR (Using data from our 30+ races)
Fastest Qualifying Lap: 1:00.8 on a 2.41km (1.50 mi) circuit 145kph(90mph)
Fastest Race Lap: 1:02.2 is 126kph (78mph)
Fastest speed displayed by in-car telemetry: +200kph (125mph)
Proven top speed: 225kph (140mph) Clocked with radar gun
Race distance: 38 laps @ 2.41km/lap = 91.7km (57miles) in 45 minutes is 126kph (78mph) average speed *using one car on a single charge*.

EVSR can go farther, faster and for longer than Formula E.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Pretty cool comparison. Do you have a side-by-side of vehicle specs or system spec/rating? Like battery kW, Kwh, GVW, motor size/type, etc. And do you use a multiratio tranny? How about vehicle cost comparison 

{edit} Probably should have posted in the performance sub-forum.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

You cannot compare performances using data from different tracks !
Speed , distance, etc all depend on gearing , controller settings , battery size, etc all of which can be altered.
also the FormulaE cars are a controlled spec series with many settings being strictly limited by regulation to ensure competitive racing.
Maximum performance is not the intention.
However, where EVSR should have them well beaten should be COST !


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Well, the longest straight on that formula E course is a fraction of a KM, and comes right after a 90 degree turn, and has a significant braking section. Anyway, here is the layout if you want to compare top speed on the same course (or even just simulate the longest leg reasonably accurately with the same entry and exit conditions):


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## EVSR (Aug 12, 2014)

major said:


> Pretty cool comparison. Do you have a side-by-side of vehicle specs or system spec/rating? Like battery kW, Kwh, GVW, motor size/type, etc. And do you use a multiratio tranny? How about vehicle cost comparison
> 
> {edit} Probably should have posted in the performance sub-forum.


Here are a couple more stats:

Formula E
Power: 200kw, equivalent to 270bhp
Weight: 888kg (1957lbs)
Top speed: 150mph (Claimed) 

EVSR
Power: 127kw or 170whp (to the rear wheels) 
Weight: 861 (1900lbs) 
Top speed: 140mph (proved on Pocono Raceway) 

Our cars do not use a transmission, instead the motor runs straight to the diff (which can be changed for different tracks/scenarios) 



Karter2 said:


> You cannot compare performances using data from different tracks !
> Speed , distance, etc all depend on gearing , controller settings , battery size, etc all of which can be altered.
> also the FormulaE cars are a controlled spec series with many settings being strictly limited by regulation to ensure competitive racing.
> Maximum performance is not the intention.
> However, where EVSR should have them well beaten should be COST !


I agree. We have been to a number of diverse track and done multiple different events (hillclimbs, auto cross, road racing, and drag racing) so I tried to use the closest comparison I could. The numbers comparing range are done at Lime Rock Park which is 1.5 miles long with 7 turns but a noticeable elevation change. I would love to see the cars on the same track but have yet to see Formula E on a unaltered racetrack. 

And you are right about cost. We built two cars and campaigned them for the entire 2014 season for about a quarter of the cost of just one Formula E car. 



dcb said:


> Well, the longest straight on that formula E course is a fraction of a KM, and comes right after a 90 degree turn, and has a significant braking section. Anyway, here is the layout if you want to compare top speed on the same course (or even just simulate the longest leg reasonably accurately with the same entry and exit conditions):


Yes, its approximately 550m long which is about .34 of a mile. To give you an interesting comparison: EVSRs run the quarter mile (at a drag strip) with a speed of 98mph. Which means we can hit 100mph in about 400m from a standing start. The Formula E cars are hitting 110mph after carrying speed through the corner. 

They also have gears to aid in acceleration.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

If you do quick sums, you will very quickly find that Formula-e is a joke. 

The company i worked for was asked to join formula-e. However being a spec series this is of no benefit for a technology company. 

For instance your limited to 28 kwh in a battery pack and 200kw max power draw. The pack is allowed to weigh 200kg. (absurd weight for 28kwh, 140 wh/kg)

Two motor allowed, only rear wheel drive, mechanical LSD only. Again hampering technology to supposedly press cost.

The biggest turn-off is that regen rule is:

1 KwH in is max 0.7 KwH. Come on FIA why the hell do you guys have to make this up. 

If you run the number on a FIA-E car with out regs and available battery tech i bett you can build a killer car for a smaller than 400K euro. Hell give me 100K and i will do it for you.

So respect to you guys at EVSR showing what a bunch of " Garage" guys can muster with a sensible budget. One question, what battery capacity are you running?


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## EVSR (Aug 12, 2014)

Tomdb said:


> If you do quick sums, you will very quickly find that Formula-e is a joke.
> 
> The company i worked for was asked to join formula-e. However being a spec series this is of no benefit for a technology company.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately it seems that Formula E has handicapped themselves with these specs and regulations. It seems that they are trying to be too much like current Formula 1 and that limits their performance. I wonder how much motorsports experience they have on their decision making team.

The history of Formula 1 has been one of innovation with rules usually coming about to either 1) enhance driver safety or 2) level the playing field. Formula 1 is not a "spec" series (such as Spec Miata) where the cars are supposed to all be the same, but rather is meant to be a place for innovation and improvement within a regulatory framework. Formula E fails at that, instead creating a spec series where the cars are all the same and there is no room for innovation and the rules hold back the cars performance potential.

You say you respect us for what we have done with a sensible budget - thank you for that, we think we have done very well with what we have, and that we have proven that millions of dollars are not what is needed to build an electric race car that works; what is needed is some common sense and good engineering.

To answer you question, we use Lithium Ferrous Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. We choose them because of their less volatile nature, because crashes in motorsports do happen and driver safety is very important to us.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Tomdb said:


> The biggest turn-off is that regen rule is:
> *1 KwH in is max 0.7 KwH.*


 Tomdb, can you explain what you mean by that ???


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Karter2 said:


> Tomdb, can you explain what you mean by that ???


It is in the FIA rules.

They measure the battery current bi-directional. (in and out, + and -).

If they measure 1KwH (voltage multiplied bij amperage) going out that gets subtracted from your maximum of 28 KwH you are alllowed to pull.

When regen braking the current flows back, hence your energy becomes negative. Lets say you put 1 KwH in the pack. The FIA equation is as followed:

Energy removed from battery - (0.7 X energy put back in from braking)= Energy removed total

20KwH - (0.7 x 1KwH) = 19.3 KwH

As you can see this is very wierd and completely based just on rules and not technical limits.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

but what do they use the data from that "calculation" for ??
I assume the cars have realtime instrumentation to monitor exactly how much kWhr is actually being used & regen'd in and out of the pack ?
I have to admit that despite being a motorsport fan and an EV enthusiast,.. the FormulaE thing just seems closer to a 3D video race game, than it does to genuine race competition.
And the whole 2 car thing is just dumb !..it simply advertises the obvious limitations of current EV technology and highlights the financial extravagance of modern motorsport.
A Good idea ..poorly executed !


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Karter2 said:


> but what do they use the data from that "calculation" for ??
> I assume the cars have realtime instrumentation to monitor exactly how much kWhr is actually being used & regen'd in and out of the pack ?


FIA requires thier own telemetary system to be installed that measure the current on both battery terminals +/- and the pack voltage at all times. This is broadcast for FIA use. 

Samething happens with F1 and the fuel flow limits, and in World endurance(Le mans). Same FIA imposed restrictions that are measured and checked during racing.

True test of Formula-E shall be next season when rules get a little more open, however there are no regulations out yet for next season. The thing is Formula-E has to financially reach season 2 first.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I don't know if SCCA has power restrictions, or even what class EVSR races in (or where the rules are) but there is an obvious mismatch when the EVSR can simply floor it and pass 5 cars


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Tomdb said:


> FIA requires thier own telemetary system to be installed that measure the current on *both* battery terminals +/- ....


What? Like it going to be different pos vs neg


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

major said:


> What? Like it going to be different pos vs neg





FIA regulations said:


> Sensors directly connected to the FIA logger (sensors
> defined by the manufacturer, approved by the FIA, and
> homologated)
> - DC voltage on each power bus
> ...


This is listed in the regulations for Formula E. Probally to be 100% certain there is no cheating. But the best reason is to include both is to isolate their own measurement errors. 

In F1 and WEC FIA recommends their fuel sensor to be mounted in an easy accessible place so they can be swapped when one of the two fails. This is because the sensors are prone to failure and this has happened.


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## EVSR (Aug 12, 2014)

Karter2 said:


> but what do they use the data from that "calculation" for ??
> I assume the cars have realtime instrumentation to monitor exactly how much kWhr is actually being used & regen'd in and out of the pack ?
> I have to admit that despite being a motorsport fan and an EV enthusiast,.. the FormulaE thing just seems closer to a 3D video race game, than it does to genuine race competition.
> And the whole 2 car thing is just dumb !..it simply advertises the obvious limitations of current EV technology and highlights the financial extravagance of modern motorsport.
> A Good idea ..poorly executed !


You points are where we believe that the EVSR program excels. To give one example, our cars have raced at Lime Rock Park, a 1.53 mile road course of similar length to the Putrajaya circuit, and completed 37 laps in a 45 minute race, covering 56.61 miles (plus 3.06 miles of out and in laps, that race had a rolling start) and we did it without the silliness of switching cars in the middle of a race. Our program also showcases how much can be accomplished with a 6 figure budget rather than the tens of millions of dollars that Formula E is spending. We are proud of how the EVSR program proves the viability of electric cars, and that's why we focused on designing and building a reliable, competitive, and cost effective racecar. 




dcb said:


> I don't know if SCCA has power restrictions, or even what class EVSR races in (or where the rules are) but there is an obvious mismatch when the EVSR can simply floor it and pass 5 cars


EVSR has been competing in the PI-4 class and the Spec Racer Ford class which has a limit on 160hp. The cars really comes into the power band around 50-60mph due to the differential we use. It isn't coincidental that most rolling start races start around those speeds. Thanks to the responsiveness and torque of electric, we are able to get the jump on most competitors right at the start as well as accelerate out of the corners sooner and faster.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Part of your advantage is that the regulations are still using peak HP as a key parameter to limit performance !
You have torque on you side !


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

yah they aren't looking at power under the curve. Also not sure how EVSR is remotely spec racer ford?!?

It is just strange marketing spin, along with the top speed insinuations against an obviously higher powered formula E.

Tone down the hype EVSR, please, the car is nice, it has its strong points, but the spin is really tacky and disingenuous, to me anyway.


```
Tube Frame Chassis
Suspension: front/rear rocker arm, coil-over shock/spring, lower "A" arm, dual externally adjustable anti-roll bars
Ford 1.9L fuel-injected, water-cooled, SOHC 8-valve, hemispherical head, inline 4-cylinder derived from Ford Escort, sealed by SCCA Enterprises
ECU: Ford Motorcraft, modified for racing, sealed by SCCA Enterprises. New for 2015 is the Performance Electronics, Ltd. PE3 ECU for Gen 3 engines.
Ford 5-speed manual transmission, sealed by SCCA Enterprises
Goodyear Eagle Racing tires (bias-ply, same size on all four corners of car) spec tire, Goodyear Eagle Racing deep-groove rain tire also available
Custom exhaust
Wheels: spec 13-inch alloy, can also run spec stamped steel wheels
Brake Pads: Hawk (spec pads)
Cockpit Adjustable Brake Bias (Tilton)
Penske Racing or Koni (original) shock absorbers (single adjustable, rebound only) sealed by SCCA Enterprises
92 in (2,337 mm) wheelbase
1,670 lb (757 kg). including driver
3-piece fiberglass body
Instruments: tachometer, oil pressure, water temperature, alternator warning light
105 hp (+/- approx. 3 hp)
Fuel Capacity: 7.75 US gal (29 L; 6 imp gal) ATL Fuel Cell
Fuel: commercial pump fuel only, usually 93 to 100 octane
135 mph (217 km/h) top speed
```


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Keep up the hype tones EVSR. It's your thread. Tell us what you want.


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## EVSR (Aug 12, 2014)

Karter2 said:


> Part of your advantage is that the regulations are still using peak HP as a key parameter to limit performance !
> You have torque on you side !


Exactly! 



dcb said:


> yah they aren't looking at power under the curve. Also not sure how EVSR is remotely spec racer ford?!?
> 
> It is just strange marketing spin, along with the top speed insinuations against an obviously higher powered formula E.
> 
> ...


EVSR frame is that from an SRF with some small but significant alterations to fit batteries and the motor. We fit into the SRF field under an alternative motor rule. We are legal under the SRF field and raced a couple times at SCCA regional events in the SRF field.

Just because Formula E claims higher power doesn't mean its a better racecar. 

I dont mean to down play Formula E at all, an electric series is a great idea. We just feel that an EVSR series would benefit the EV world and prove the reliability, competitiveness and cost effectiveness of electric racecars. 



major said:


> Keep up the hype tones EVSR. It's your thread. Tell us what you want.


We are in it for the fans; so if you're happy, we're happy!


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Well consider me a fan of electric racing, just looking for apples to apples when comparisons are made


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