# Help - Zilla - all fuses blown



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

That is concerning, and clearing the old errors is unfortunate (quite easy though.)

There has only been one Zilla that I know of where the IGBTs got shorted on, and that was some over-voltage racing brutality. So right up front, I doubt it is anything that bad. 

error 1231 will persist until new fuses are fitting -- without them your traction pack is open.

error 1142 is something I've never seen. It may be an artifact, that is to say that off cannot be confirmed if the pack is open because voltage is the tool to sense this.

error 1213 I'm at a loss, but since you are running a single motor I would guess it is an artifact -- it can't get precharge voltage to show up.

Depending on who you bought the zilla from contact the appropriate support service. Actually, if your controller says "by Manzanita Micro" on the case contact them, it if says anything else (both of mine are older and say "by cafe electric") the contact Otmar at Cafe Electric. Either way, any needed repair will most likely be handled by Manzanita Micro. Rich, the owner and Manzanita Micro, and Otmar, the designer of the Zilla and owner of Cafe Electric, are friends.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks - help much appreciated... Mine is also an older Cafe Electric unit...

I will update this if I get anywhere...

Any thoughts on why all 3 main battery fuses would blow?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Garth,

Almost every time a fuse blows it is due to excessive current for too long. I think I found the chart for your 500A fuse although it ain't easy on google and saw that it should withstand 1000 Amps for 40 seconds. You don't say what your battery limit was set to, but it is a 1000A controller. You say it happened under hard acceleration but I doubt you could draw 1000A for 40 seconds keeping it legal unless going up a long incline or severely dragging a brake. I think I read the chart correctly that 1400A would blow the fuse(s) in 5 seconds. So a controller failure to full on causing excessive current would give you a noticeable jolt of acceleration which you didn't mention.

I suspect you had a short (batt + to batt -) between the fuse location and the controller (or inside the controller as a short across the DC bus. The short circuit current may have been in excess 2000A which would clear the fuses in like 50 to 70 milliseconds.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Major - I am still taking stuff apart, doing measurements etc... So far no shorts found, and no black/plasma evidence... Both contactors are open (ie not fused), and resistances up to the motor controller are normal. Since all fuses blew, it must be a fault on the high side of the pack where it enters to the motor controller.

I have not removed the motor controller yet - will do tomorrow, and take a peek inside... I am reluctant to put it all back together with new fuses until I find a smoking gun.

It is -17F here - believe it or not it has warmed up a bit - been bitter cold all week 

Any suggestions for resistance measurements/tests that can be performed on the Zilla or Warp 9 would be most appreciated...


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Found the smoking gun! The Zilla has lots of scorch marks on the inside - in a way I am glad is wasn't my wiring, but that said, it is an expensive part to go...

I will contact Manzanita - they are pretty good with customer service so hoping they can get me back on the road without too much of a delay (or expense).

Thanks all for the help - will update once I hear back...


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Has anyone had their Zilla repaired before? Should I send the hairball and power unit together, or just the power unit?


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

gdirwin said:


> Has anyone had their Zilla repaired before? Should I send the hairball and power unit together, or just the power unit?


I had my Zillas software upgraded a few years ago and I just sent in the power unit, but since yours blew I'd recommend sending the whole package to make sure the hairball didn't get damaged too.


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> Has anyone had their Zilla repaired before? Should I send the hairball and power unit together, or just the power unit?


I'm sorry to hear that you've had a Zilla failure. That's no fun at all!

Yes, since you say yours is older (How old? What serial number is it?), I suggest sending in the Hairball so it can get the latest code update. You'll need to contact Manzanita for a RMA number and instructions. 

Without seeing inside I can't tell what happened, but you are running a heavy vehicle at pretty low voltage which brings up a guess. Your situation matches a couple other failures we've had with Z1K's over the years. In those cases (both were Jeeps running low voltages and being driven in high gear since it is so nice and quiet that way) the capacitors overheated and eventually failed, when the caps fail the voltage spikes take out the power devices. This can take many months of stress before they fail. When I designed the Z1K I did not expect caps to overheat before a single motor melted, I used to test it on my two 8" motors wired in parallel, but it seems the larger Warp motors can take a lot of current, enough to not melt while overloading the Z1K at certain duty cycles (around 50%). This is why I suggest a Z2K for most single ratio vehicles. 
A couple questions that may help clarify it:
What gear/speed ranges do you drive at? Do you have a current meter on the motor loop or use the Hairball function to be able to watch motor current on your tachometer? 
If this turns out to be the issue then I'd suggest making sure your cooling system is good and that the check engine warning light,you did hook it up, yes?  does not flash from overheating, and check your motor currents in your normal operating modes. 
I have a FAQ on shifting gears or direct drive on the Cafe Electric site. The trouble is that sometimes people drive a shifting car in the gear that's appropriate for the highway while they are around town and with the controller current turned up there is no obvious way to know that motor and caps are being pushed really hard. Single ratio driving is possible, but normally requires a Z2K. Starting off in a gear that can also do 60 mph is basically single ratio driving. 
The counter intuitive part in that sort of situation (I realize I'm making a big discussion out of an assumption that may not apply to you at all) is that the motor and controller are more efficient at high voltage (closer to full throttle) which involves downshifting and pushing much more on the accelerator. That of course "feels" more stressful even though the currents end up being much lower plus the motor fan works better at higher rpm. If a shifting vehicle doesn't have shift speeds labelled on the dash, and the motor current is set pretty high (600+?), the user might tend toward damaging driving. 
And now I have another thought. -17F ? That's pretty cold. We have had others use them at those temps with no trouble but cold temps due reduce the effectiveness of the capacitors, so it could have made the above issue show up early. 

All the Zillas shipped with telltale sensors on the capacitors so Manzanita should be able to tell if capacitor overheating was involved. We went so many years without seeing even the lowest of the telltale dots trip that I almost stopped putting them in 5 years ago, but these few failures have justified them so we can at least know some of what was going on. 

Once again, I'm sorry you are having trouble with it, and I hope Manzanita can get you back on the road quickly.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi Otmar - thank you very much for your reply. I have contacted Manzanita, and they have been very helpful and promised a quick-turnaround for a repair.

I usually start in 2nd gear (I kept the 5 speed trans) and am conscious of the high motor current during starting at higher gears - I was more concerned about motor/brush wear/tear however, so thanks for the explanation of how this can also affect the Zilla. I had a ZillaView connected for a short time, but for the most part I just monitor battery amps (not motor amps).

I do have the warning light connected (to the check engine dash light) - I have seen the warning light flash a few times (over 3.5 years of driving) on hot days with brief highway driving - never more than a few seconds however (never on all the time). After I first saw the warning/blinking, I upgraded my cooling system with a 2nd radiator (I have had good flow throughout the entire time - no pump failures etc...). My cooling system has always been passive (no fans) as I detest noise of any kind - time to reconsider this however, so I will probably add some fans behind the rads (controlled by coolant temperature).

Manzanita also suggested a Z2k (operated at 1000Amp max), however it is a great deal more $$$s compared to a repair - I also may not have the room (I will check and consider it though).

I am not sure if it was cold related - this is my daily driver and it gets incredibly cold here (Winnipeg) - we had one of the coldest Dec and Jan - the average temp (not average low, nor considering the wind) was -12F, with many days below -20F.

I greatly appreciate your help here - I will wait and see what Manzanita can do for me (I have had good success with them before - I also use their charger). I miss my Zilla already (it has only been a few days)!

Thanks again!
Garth


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