# Re-using complete Leaf Drive System (w/VCM)



## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi Rob. I'm sort of doing this, and not. I have a complete Mitsubishi i-MIEV out of its shell that is going into a new chassis. But it will operate as it always did, thinking it is an i-MIEV. If you can learn to talk the leaf's Canbus language then you can do it no problem. It's the learning and development that are tricky.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks TW, best of luck with your project! 

My intention in general is not to have to do much in terms CAN, as I'm hoping I can use enough of the Leaf to let the controllers talk to one another as they normally do. At the moment I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of just how much stuff would have to be brought over to accomplish that goal. At some point it could get to where I'd be better off developing a small CAN spoofer to send certain messages than to over complicate the integration in the new vehicle too much  Hopefull that will get easier to sort out once i actually get a Leaf, but in the mean time I figure its not such a bad thing to be spending some time getting familiar with the service manual, DTCs and controller locations and functions 

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

So I did finally look at the BCM, and its failsafe conditions aren't as bad as I'd feared. They are mostly security related, so as long as you have a BCM, VCM, dongle, LBC and key all from the same donor vehicle it seems like the BCM should be ok to ask the VCM to go ready. Not clear yet if you can use just the NATS amp behind the power button, or if its going to want the keyless entry / start system to be present.

I'll update the table and top post with the details soon.

Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

I am hoping to do the same thing with a Leaf, some day. I still have some other stuff to do first, though. 

What got me thinking it could be done was a video I saw. Someone took the elctronics out of a Leaf and tied it all up to a peg board, then made it run. I looked for it a minute ago but it didn't come up in my search. I'll have to look again later.


edit: Found it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McvDjpdcBw0

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

*Original post captured before edits / updates:*

I've seen cases where some folks are working on re-using individual components from a Nissan Leaf, but am wondering if anyone has done any work on what it would take to use the complete system (battery, bms, motor, inverter, charger) while retaining the VCM controller to talk to these components via CAN? There are certainly some downsides to this approach in terms of flexibility, and likely some challenges to keeping the VCM happy outside a Leaf, but it seems to me the advantages in terms of retaining a fairly robust, proven integration and control system (not to mention not having to reverse engineer the proprietary control scheme) could be substantial.

If anyone has done any tinkering in this realm I'd very much like to hear your thoughts / experiences!

I don't have a Leaf to play with yet (hopefully getting a salvage one in the next few months) so I've started by digging into the factory service manuals for the 2011 MY Leaf to try and get a sense of what the minimum number of components would be to allow the VCM to function fairly normally (ie likely showing DTCs, but no significant reductions in performance / capabilities). In particular there is an interesting table beginning on page EVC-79 which shows the relation of various DTCs to failsafe conditions generated by the VCM. I started by looking at the CAN communication related errors, figuring that this would be the first gate to pass when the VCM comes online. What controllers is it looking for traffic from before it will allow the system to go ready and energize? 

That resulted in the following table:










From this first test, it looks like the following would be required at a minimum:
Motor
Inverter
Battery
LBC (BMS)
Charger
Shifter

That seems like a pretty manageable list for starters. Digging through the rest of the list, here are some other things that could be issues.

U10** errors: Not sure who generates these? Seems like maybe just each individual controller can generate them if there are general communications problems on the CAN bus, but need to understand better. 

BCM - This is a very complicated one. Its sort of the master controller of the non-EV CAN bus, and would bring in lots of potentially nice creature comforts but also complications like security. It appears that the VCM may be able to operate just fine without it, as long as the ready signal is applied with the right voltage / timing on the correct pin? There is a complication in that there are several P16** DTCs that appear to be security related in the VCM that look for communication with the BCM. For example, P1610 says it will put the VCM in "lock mode" preventing it from letting the EV system go ready on request if it has gone ready 5 consecutive times without being able to communicate with the BCM. If trying to operate without the BCM it may be necessary to clear this DTC periodically (if it can be easily cleared) or provide a minimal set of BCM CAN responses to the VCM to prevent these errors.

Contactors - located in the battery box, the VCM wants to see these working as expected. Assume should be used pretty much as is.

IPDM / DCC Conv - Basically the fuse / relay box. Would generally be useful to retain (particularly dc:dc), but of course it has its own CAN controller and expects to be able to talk to the BCM or enters failsafe mode. Without that controller it looks like there might be some work to be done to open and close several relays on related CAN commands. Or it may be possible to get enough of it to work without the CAN controller connected to keep the VCM happy (with dc:dc in constant 14V mode?).

ED-IBU - master cylinder / brake controller, looks like you can go without it but will not be able to use regenerative braking if its not present. Its the IBU that sends a brake torque request to the VCM. Would be interesting to see if the brake pressure sensors will be ok with having the hydraulic lines just capped off or if you'd have to either use the Leaf calipers or adapt the leaf master cylinder to the host vehicles calipers? Would presumably need brake pedal sensors / switches if trying to use the IBU.

Throttle sensors - There are two, it looks like the resistance of one it twice that of the other. The two need to be consistent with one another and in the right voltage range to keep the VCM happy.

Cooling System / water pumps - In general seems like a good idea to use the stock liquid cooling system as much as possible, perhaps with the radiator substituted for the host vehicles if its relatively comparable? The VCM does look for a reasonable PWM duty cycle on both water pump drivers.

AC - Looks like it can be done without. Although its driven by the HV system i believe you need the BCM / AV Ctl (or the equivalent CAN messages) to control it.

ABS / Traction / Stability / Steering control - somewhat surprisingly to me at least, looks like the VCM is ok without this present which seems like a good thing for re-use flexibility. May be an issue if trying to use BCM?

Airbag - crash sensor can shut HV system down, but VCM seems ok if its not there.

TCU - telemetry controler, car wings app interface, VCM seems ok without it 

Comb meter - Speedo, etc, VCM ok without it, but no ASCD (cruise control)

AV Ctl - controls dash display and buttons I believe, VCM ok without but no charge timer or pre-AC.

That's what I've got so far. You can view the whole spreadsheet that I've been making notes in here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L6-BZ-tbyuR7V2o-B8_pewGph_tKKjo8etcJuW12-jg/edit?usp=sharing

Again, any thoughts, insights, experiences much appreciated! If there are any significant findings / discussions I'll try to keep this top post updated.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Updated first post to reflect findings on BCM. Doesn't look to tricky to include it which gets around the security related VCM errors, provided that you have a matching VCM, BCM, Security Dongle, and Key all from the same vehicle. Otherwise, it looks like you would need Consult to re-register the controller IDs.

Rob


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## foxr (Apr 16, 2015)

This is very interesting as I'm hoping to either A. Use a leaf to do the same thing into a fiat500 or other small car or B. get the drivetrain and build the rest using the open source controller plans on net.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I think the only real "downside" I see to this approach so far is you really need to have a number of the major components all from one car. The LBC (BMS) and VCM have a security code / transaction that must be registered with the dealer consult tool if they don't already match. The battery modules themselves could probably be from another vehicle as long as you use the LBC from the same donor as the VCM. Additionally the BCM, VCM, security dongle and key all have similar security ID registration. A missing key may be something a locksmith could help with (if they have a ~$10k state of the art multi-brand programmer), but otherwise these would also all require the dealer tool to register the new IDs.

From my perspective, this didn't seem to be a substantial downside. From what I could tell, by the time you've rounded up all the pieces from various sources you'd have easily spent in the same $5-7k range that complete salvage vehicles can be found for. And with the whole vehicle available, there might be other pricy bits in there worth using, like the AC system for instance.

Open source control would be great from a flexibility standpoint, but I would think its going to be hard to beat the robustness of the oem control system. I may very well start moving in that direction at some point, and will probably use my conversion as a test bed for some CAN snooping and experimentation, but to me it seemed to make sense to get it all working in stock configuration first. We'll see how smart an idea that was soon 

Incidentally, I just won a salvage 2012 at auction for just under $7k so hopefully I can start testing this all out soon  In the mean time I guess I better crack the MY 2012 service manual and make sure there aren't any substantial differences to the behaviors noted above!

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I did also find one more potential gotcha 

I've added the DTC / failsafe info from the IBU (intelligent brake unit) to the spreadsheet linked above. The IBU seems like it does not have any failsafe modes associated with inability to communicate with any controllers other than perhaps the VCM, but C1A74 is a steering sensor malfunction DTC that does lock out regen. It may be that the steering controller has to be present in order to generate that error, in which case leaving it out should be ok. But we'll have to see about that 

I'll update the first post with that info when I get the chance.

Rob


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Rob, the peg board leaf is mine. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Will do 67BGTEV, thanks! My Leaf should be arriving next week, so then the real fun will begin 

My biggest question on the peg-board demo was whether you think the system was operating in full drive power mode vs. a reduced power failsafe mode, and whether it seemed like regen was available?

If you have any kind of list of what all was included and/or left out I'd love to see it 

Awesome project, love the MG too!

Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

miscrms said:


> If you have any kind of list of what all was included and/or left out I'd love to see it
> 
> Awesome project, love the MG too!
> 
> Rob



Ditto on both of these for me.

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I have never actually driven a Leaf  but am I right in thinking that the power display visible at 54s in the video indicates all 9 "bubbles" of drive power available, and 3/4 regen bubbles available? That would seem like a good sign.

Rob


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

miscrms said:


> Will do 67BGTEV, thanks! My Leaf should be arriving next week, so then the real fun will begin
> 
> My biggest question on the peg-board demo was whether you think the system was operating in full drive power mode vs. a reduced power failsafe mode, and whether it seemed like regen was available?
> 
> ...


Rob, Thanks! 
The Leaf was not going to the drive mode when I got it. I wanted to make sure that everything worked as it should be before ripping the batteries apart and I was able to sell the drive train at later date, based on this video. 
Sorry, I didn't prepare any list. I got the entire car and all the parts were in the car. 
In fact, I had bought 2 Salvaged Leafs. 1 whole pack went to my BGT and half pack to my fiend's (Mike in the video) MGB. 

This weekend we are adding quarter pack to BGT, as my commute it 80 miles (with so many uphill) and I barely make it with one charge.

Another Quarter pack I'll use it for home-solar charging and runnning part of my home from the battery during the peak.




miscrms said:


> I have never actually driven a Leaf  but am I right in thinking that the power display visible at 54s in the video indicates all 9 "bubbles" of drive power available, and 3/4 regen bubbles available? That would seem like a good sign.
> 
> Rob


9 Bars (out of 12) is amount of charge available in the pack.
Left bars are the Battery Pack Temperature. If you can, please rent a Leaf for a week. If you are familiar with Leaf dash, it would be easy to relate how things should be. Good Luck.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

That would probably be smart, then I'd have a better sense of how things should be. 

I was referring to the "bubbles" at the top of the dash display though. My understanding is the inner dot moves left or right to show current drive or regen power, but that the outer "bubbles" also light up or go dark to show current available power/regen based on battery charge, temp, etc. I'm not sure if they do the same to reflect reduced power / regen due to DTCs / failsafe reduced power modes though.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Got my Leaf today, so should be able to start testing some of this theory on hardware soon! Looks like I got lucky. Bought a 2012 w/24k miles wrecked from copart/autobidmaster, ~$7k after fees and shipping WA to AZ. Drove right off the truck, and charged up fine. After clearing a few minor DTCs with LeafSpy, its not throwing any codes. Took on a ~10 mile test run, drives straight and quiet, glides well, did just over 5m/kWh with AC running (92F today in Phoenix).

Rob


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## mrt1040 (Apr 29, 2015)

Hey Rob,

Congratulations on getting your car, and project underway. Really looking forward to following this online. Good Luck 

Mark


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm happy to report an initial success. Here's the current state of the Leaf, and so far it still runs 










Here is what has been removed so far, following (mostly) the factory service manual procedures/order:
- instrument lower center cover (seat heat, aux audio connectors left disconnected)
- instrument lower cover RH/LH
- center console finisher (gear indicator and park brake switch disconnected, but reconnected after removal)
- center console
- front kick plate inner RH/LH
- center pillar lower garnish RH/LH
- front seat belt pre-tensioner disconnected
- side curtain airbag inflators disconnected (partial removal of headliner req'd)
- front body side welt RH/LH
- instrument side panel RH/LH
- front pillar garnish RH/LH (tweeters left disconnected)
- instrument mask RH/LH
- meter cover
- cluster lid finisher
- upper meter
- cluster lid
- combination meter
- hood / charge lid opener (left connected)
- instrument under cover LH (diagnostic port, aspirator duct, power button, charge now etc buttons disengaged but still connected)
- side ventilator grills RH/LH (includes trip / menu buttons)
- steering wheel side lid RH/LH
- drivers airbag (includes steering wheel control buttons)
- steering column cover upper/lower
- AV cluster lid (includes all buttons around AV screen)
- AV Control Unit
- charge status indicator
- insolation sensors
- instrument under cover RH
- glove box lid
- glove box cover
- passenger airbag connector & fixing bolt
- Airbag diagnostic unit / controller
- TCU antenna connector
- power socket connector
- instrument panel

Additionally I had previously removed the rear seat and cover over the charger / brake backup power supply, both front headlight assemblies, front bumper cover and front RH fender.

In the pictured state, the 12V battery neg terminal was reattached, and the car booted up. The following DTCs were registered, but the car appeared to go ready, drive, regen, and charge normally. Without the dash I only had LeafSpy to go by though and it was difficult to get good readings due to refresh rate and lowish speeds (~20-25mph max). Only noted anomalies were 1) Had to hold power button to power down, and 2) cooling fans ran during charge. I believe #1 was due to residual parking brake errors, while #2 is an error state when the climate control system is malfunctioning.

Initial DTCs reported by LeafSpy:
U1000 0109 ABS CAN Comm
U1000 0009 BCM CAN Comm
B2557 0009 BCM Vehicle Speed - Combination Meter / ABS speed mismatch
C1729 0009 BCM Vehicle Speed Sig Err - Vehicle speed signal not detected
C1A70 0109 BRAKE Brake Control System - ABS Malfunction - note can suspend regen
U1000 0109 BRAKE CAN Comm
U0155 0009 PARKING BRAKE - no CAN comm from combination meter
U1000 0109 PARKING BRAKE CAN Comm
C10E3 0109 PARKING BRAKE - parking brake switch no input
U1000 0109 EPS CAN Comm
U1000 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Comm
P31B5 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error - Combination Meter
P31B3 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error - AC Auto Amp
P31B7 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error - Airbag Diagnostic Sensor
P31B4 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error - AV Control Unit
U1000 0009 IPDM E/R CAN Comm
U1A08 000B TCU Tel Ant No Conn
U1A05 000B USB Comm

I believe most of the parking brake related errors were from having disconnected and reconnected the parking brake switch harness from the center console while the 12V battery was still connected. Those errors went away when cleared. Unfortunately I was not clearing DTCs correctly in LeafSpy, so I don't know exactly when what DTCs went out. But from here, I reinstalled the following components:
- Combination Meter / Upper meter
- Trip/Menu buttons
- AV Control unit
- AV Cluster Cover / Switches
- TCU Ant
- GPS Ant
- steering wheel switches
- Charge status indicator
- Insolation Sensors

That's pretty much all the electronic components except the airbag system, seat heater switches, USB aux input, headlight assemblies. The result was something like this:









Airbag and headlight warnings are expected. I believe the hybrid system warning is related to the AV Cntl / AC errors not yet being reset, IE the mode that was making the fans run during charge. Battery mileage remaining is reset due to 12V disconnect.

After resetting (correctly this time) DTCs with LeafSpy, here's all that was left:
U1000 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Comm
P31B7 00C0 EV/HEV CAN Error - Airbag Diagnostic Sensor

Tested again, went ready, drove, regen, AC, power down, charge all seemed normal.

I am planning to do more testing on disconnecting more controllers, but my next step is to drop the battery and rewire into 2x24 module packs then re-install to test.

Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Nice work, Rob. I am following this information closely.

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Almost have my Leaf put back together with the rewired battery pack, so hopefully will have some more test results soon. Hope to start getting a little more radical with component removal to really get down to a solid understanding of what the minimum required components would be.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=632377&postcount=41

Rob


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

This is great work! I really fancy getting a salvage leaf to build into a future project myself. Will be watching your on-going results with interest


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Everything came back up fine, no new DTCs, so should be getting back to testing soon!










Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Ok, so I tried unplugging the main harness connector from the ABS controller last night. Only backed out into the driveway and back into the garage (no headlights) but besides a bunch of DTCs and dash warnings all seemed to go fine.

Here are the DTCs reported by LeafSpy, > denotes active:
BCM:
>U1000 0009 CAN Comm Circuit
>U0415 0009 Vehicle Speed - Vehicle speed signal from ABS abnormal (BCM failsafe inhibit steering lock, ikey warning)
>B2557 Vehicle Speed - Speed signal from comb meter and ABS inconsistent
Brake:
>U1000 0109 CAN Comm Circuit
>U1510 0109 Brake Control Comm
Parking Brake:
>U0129 0009 Brake System Control - CAN Comm from ABS not received for >2s (failsafe may inhibit use/release of parking brake)
>U1000 0109 CAN Comm Circuit
EPS (power steering)
>U1000 0109 CAN Comm Circuit
EV/HEV (VCM)
P3194 00C0 CAN Error - CAN Error Signal from ABS
U1000 00C0 CAN Comm Circuit
P31B7 00C0 CAN Error - CAN Error Signal from Airbag
METER
>U1000 0009 CAN Comm Circuit
MULTI/AV
>U1000 0109 CAN Comm Circuit
SHIFT
U1000 000A CAN Comm Circuit

So in general looks reasonable to omit ABS controller. I believe the speedo still works as its derived from motor rpms (forgot to verify). It may not be possible to electronically engage / release the electronic parking brake.

Here's the dash display in this state:









After reconnecting, all new dash warnings went away, the B series DTCs went away immediately, the rest were all showing inactive and went away after resetting. 

I looked into ways of testing omission of the electronic power steering controller, but it looks tricky in the car. There are a number of warnings that the power steering module is integrated with the steering column, and cannot be replaced separately. The fuse is a fusible link rather than standard blade fuse. If the steering position sensor is disconnected it has to be recalibrate with the Consult tool. So that will probably have to wait until stuff is pulled from the car.

Rob


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...f-drivetrain-into-02-honda-insight-30966.html

XPedro must be your inspiration


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

rmay635703 said:


> http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...f-drivetrain-into-02-honda-insight-30966.html
> 
> XPedro must be your inspiration


Yup, I've been in contact with Tom, love what he's doing! I had already started planning this project when I found his, but the fact that I wasn't the only one crazy enough to try it definitely gave me a bit more courage to move ahead 

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Here is a video I shot last night going through the location of the major components within the Leaf that might be of interest to anyone working on one or planning to reuse parts. I'll plan to make another showing the components in more detail once they are out of the Leaf, which I think I'm running out of excuses to put off much longer 

 https://youtu.be/8OBHiTLkANc

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Ok, so I bit the bullet and disabled the electric power steering. In general this seemed to cause no issues with the operation of the vehicle beyond loss of power steering.

First attempt was simply removing the 60A fusible link in the engine room. I believe this leaves the EPS controller up on 12V power, but interrupts the power to the assist motor.

This was the resulting dash display:









The only new DTC was:
>C1601 0109 EPS Battery Voltage - 12V voltage out of range

Next I removed the 8 pin connector from the EPS unit, which should power down the EPS controller and disconnect it from CAN. The dash display was unchanged, but the above DTC went away (since the EPS controller is no longer there to report it) and surprisingly there were no new DTCs at all.

In both states I backed the car down the driveway and back, with no issues other than lack of PS. Steering is heavy, but not unmanageable at low speeds.

So in general, omission of the EPS system in a transplant (and steering column/rack by extension) looks quite doable.

Rob


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Very interesting thread, along with your Sonnet thread.

Reading both, has convinced me that, this is pretty much the only way to go in converting small cars from ICE to EV.

Any thoughts on how this would work on a none Front Wheel Drive vehicle???

Two reasons for my choice of vehicle, one, they are very light, and, two, I have one.......


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

In general it seems like there are two approaches people take with using a FWD system in a RWD vehicle. 

The first is to actually mount the motor/transaxle in the rear of the vehicle. This has a number of mechanical challenges in terms of mounting, but would allow the drive ratio of the motor to wheels to remain essentially unchanged without requiring any modification of the motor/reduction gear.

The second is to mount the motor up front as usual, but often rotated 90 degrees. The diff in the transaxle can then be welded to provide just one output which is adapted to drive the prop shaft. The problem then is that gear ratios are often way off unless the rear diff has a 1:1 ratio. The Leaf motor runs up to 10,350 rpm and has a ~8:1 output reduction which results in a top speed of ~94mph. So with a 4:1 rear end you'd have a top speed of ~23 mph. It might be possible to reduce the ratio of the reduction box, but no idea how likely it is you could find the right gearset to do so.

Another solution would be to remove the stock gear reducer/trasaxle and use the motor shaft to directly drive the original transmission and rear end using a custom adapter plate and coupler. No idea how tricky this would be to do with the Leaf motor that's not designed to be general purpose motor, but it could work.

Other than these issues (which are general challenges of trying to use an FWD drive system in a RWD vehicle, or of trying to mate a given motor to a given transmission), I don't see any specific issue with trying to use the Leaf system in a RWD so far.

There's a lot to be said for picking a car you like (and already have) and just making it work, as long as you realize you might be making things more difficult for yourself but think its worth it to have an end product you enjoy


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

OK, basically what I thought. Nice to know the ratios.

For me, the front motor, 90 deg rear drive setup would be a no go. Just, a little too unelegant, and, creates extra problems that need to be solved.

I'm thinking, the best setup, would be to just drop the motor unit in where it belongs, and, convert the car to FWD (I have LOTS of Minis and, bits, so, those types of parts are already in my shed). Could, possibly fab in a complete Mini front sub-frame........

Putting it in the back for RWD, I think would entail more work in fabing up IRS in the rear (trailing arms, hubs etc).

Going FWD, I could dump the rear axle, and, substitute a lighter fabricated unit.

Any chance of getting some good side, front, and top views, dead square on, with major dimensions when you get the Leaf finally stripped.

Started putting out feelers for a shmucked Leaf already. Don't think they are as common in Canada.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I think that makes a lot of sense. A lot of the advantage of using the Leaf drive system stems from using it as complete and intact as possible. Once you start hacking on it too much you'd probably have an easier time with retail parts that are more inherently flexible.

I will definitely plan to do some good dimensioned shots once I start taking the big pieces out! 

I found the service manual book that deals with body repair to be pretty helpful too, as at least it has a bunch of frame related measurements for straightening purposes.

Best of luck in your hunt! I don't know if they are as big in Canada, but Copart does seem to have facilities there. There are also sites that specialize in exporting US salvage vehicles, not sure what the fees are like but that might be an option too. Copart / autobidmaster might even have something set up for Canadian customers buying US salvage as well.

Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Looking at the relevant section of the 2014 service manual, I think the motor is similar (but obviously not identical) to the siemens-type motors you can find at EVTV, etc. It basically just bolts onto the face of the transaxle. At least according to the pictures. I'm pretty confident it will work bolted to an adapter plate on the transmission of my Supra. Time will tell, though.

Bill


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

dedlast said:


> Looking at the relevant section of the 2014 service manual, I think the motor is similar (but obviously not identical) to the siemens-type motors you can find at EVTV, etc. It basically just bolts onto the face of the transaxle. At least according to the pictures. I'm pretty confident it will work bolted to an adapter plate on the transmission of my Supra. Time will tell, though.
> 
> Bill


 If so, seems it would make for an easier conversion. Could use existing trans/diff and half shafts. Basically do what miscrms is doing, lift the entire system, but not the gearbox. Seems the system shouldn't know the difference, but would have to change parameters for speedometer and odometer if tire size is different. Different wheel size will also affect top speed and acceleration. I'm probably overlooking some things though, like motor mounts.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

That sounds reasonable. Control wise, I think you are correct. I don't the controllers would know whether or not you are using the reduction box, except perhaps that the "park" mechanism may be on it which could cause some issues. I believe the challenge in using some motors not intended for general purpose use is the shaft end can be short and/or use some funky coupling mechanism that is difficult to adapt to.

Here's an image of the 2013+ motor from SAE:
http://www.sae.org/dlymagazineimages/11993_16167_ACT.jpg

Shaft looks fairly reasonable from that image. It seems like the coolant paths are closed by the motor cover, which is good. Another question would be whether there is an oil seal between the motor and gearbox. I believe on the Prius the motors and PSD gears are all bathed in the same oil to facilitate heat transfer to the case, but I have no idea what the case is for the Leaf. I'm guessing the motor is closed and sealed from the images, but not sure. Maybe the Leaf doesn't even use oil in the motor, just the reduction box?

In a FWD application it would seem like its probably easier to get custom drive shafts built than to get a custom adapter plate and coupler. If for no other reason than there are probably shops in every town that can do the former, but shops with any experience in the latter are probably more rare. For front engine RWD, adapting the motor to the transmission probably makes more sense than trying to use the Leaf reducer/transaxle assuming you can come up with a combination that gives you a reasonable gear ratio.

Rob


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## Carnut1100 (Jan 13, 2015)

Don't necessarily need IRS to mount it for RWD....I was looking at the feasibility of doing just that, and the choice of conversion car was to be a classic with leaf sprung live axle. 
My solution was going to be fabricating a DeDion axle to fit the original leaf springs. 
Still a bit of work but less than IRS or a FWD conversion.......


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

After a quick look, and, some rough measurements, converting to FWD using a slightly widened (about 4-5 inches) Mini front sub frame, will be a dead simple swap, and, fairly light.

So, as of now, looks like it's going to be a FWD Leaf conversion barring any other issues.........


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Do you have some rough and ready dimensions for those two battery packs in your post 23.

My eyeball says about 36" long, 8" tall, and, about 12" wide.

Need to start measuring up where things will go.

I think someone said about 200 pounds per pack?????

The car weighs 1700 pounds, will be pulling about 400 pounds of ICE stuff out of it, so, will weigh more than stock, but, way less than a Leaf.

Plus, this things current (pun intended) electric footprint, is tiny compared to most modern cars. A couple of Dimwatt tail lights, and front running lights. Headlights, 45 watts each maybe. Fan motor about 150watts, two more Half Dimwatts in the dash, the windshield wiper, and, that's about it.

Probably barely more than 400 Watts with everything running flat out.

No power steering, no vacuum brakes.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Pretty close  Here's what I measure to the furthest extent with all the brackets in place.










You could save an inch or two on the length by relocating the BMS and cutting down the tabs. Probably up to an inch or so on the width by removing or modifying the side brackets.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Another small test:

Drained the coolant from the heater and cooling loops. No DTCs, no change to behavior. Removed the fuses for the two water pumps, resulting in the following DTCs:

P31E8 00C0 EV/HEV (VCM) Water Pump 1 feedback duty cycle out of range >30s
P31EA 00C0 EV/HEV (VCM) Water Pump 2 feedback duty cycle out of range >30s

Was able to shift into R/D as normal, no issues noted.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Theoretical Min. Weight = 3.8 kg per module, * 24= 91.2kg = 201 lbs. Absolute min would be taking the pouches out of the cans for 799g * 24 * 4 = 76.7 kg = 169 lbs * 2 = 338 lbs. That would require a whole new way to structure and wire the pack though.

I'm guessing with all brackets and spacers each pack will be ~240 lbs, plus BMS, HV cabling and Contactor box. Maybe 500lb total for battery? Will have a more exact weight as soon as packs come back out of Leaf, maybe this weekend.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

BWA if you start a build thread please share the link here!

Rob


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## BWA (Mar 14, 2015)

Will do, thanks for the info thus far.

I'll make up some foam mock ups to check for fits. Will also mock up half size packs, and, maybe 1/3rds.

I guess, you could just as easily do 2 x 24, 3 x 18, or, 4 x 12 packs to facilitate packaging in the vehicle???


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Certainly. The only potential advantage to using 2x24, is I was able to use the stock bus bar set and brackets.  Those may not be readily available though, so maybe not much of an advantage.

I'm still having some second thoughts about this config in my application. It's far simpler, but requires moving the battery weight up about 5" to clear the rear axle. If they were about 6" shorter with the remainder in two smaller packs I could drop them down significantly which would result in lower CG and probably improve handling.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Motor is out! Still quite a bit of work to do to remove the rest of the wiring harness and AC system, but making progress! Will try to start posting dimensions and weights of the major components soon.










Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm curious about the motor spline. If it's a "standard" 24-tooth, EVTV seems to have a coupler (not currently in stock) that would fit the flywheel with only a bit of secondary machining. Well, that may be a bit of an understatement, but it would beat having to design and machine the whole thing.

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Hey Bill, sorry I missed this post. I'm not planning to separate the motor from the gearbox, so I'm not sure I'll be able to help here. If you do find out let us know!

Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

No worries. I have Friday off and I think I have things stripped down far enough that I can actually pull the drive train by the end of the day. I don't know if I'll get the motor/reducer separated but we'll see.

It's been pushing 90 in the garage the last few days. Not unbearable, but still a bit much for this neck of the woods.

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Good luck this weekend!

I'm definitely wondering how it is that I always seem to end up doing this kind of project in the middle of summer in Phoenix  When its 110 outside I'm sure I don't want to know what the temp in the garage is...

Rob


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

How are you getting on?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Miscrms

I am really interested in this idea can you help me with some confirmation
You said I would need 
_a BCM, VCM, dongle, LBC and key all from the same donor vehicle 
_
BCM - Battery Control Module?? - Does this live inside the battery box?

VCM - Vehicle Control Module?? - Where does this live - dashboard?

dongle - Where does this live - dashboard? - what does it look like?

LCB - What is it? - where does it live? 

How does the key get used? - is there a sensor somewhere to tell the car that the key is present?

Shifter? - lever to select forwards/reverse - is it complicated or could I just use a switch?

It looks as if I can't get a complete car here because the shippers are refusing to ship hybrids or EV's that have been damaged but I can get parts from Japan so I need to work out what I need


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

skooler said:


> How are you getting on?


I'm a little stalled right now with work and family, but hope to be back at it soon. Current status is the last of the harnesses and components have been removed from the Leaf, and its been rolled out of the garage. Next planned step is to wire up all the major components outside the vehicle to see if I can reproduce something like this result with my 2012 system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McvDjpdcBw0

After any troubleshooting needed to get the system to go ready and spin the transaxle, the host vehicle will be rolled in to start stripping it down.

I'd say the biggest unknown currently is what I'm going to do with the brakes. My understanding currently is that without the Leaf master cylinder / controller in place I won't be able to regen, but bringing that in will be complicated and take some experimentation. So I may just go ahead without regen for the initial test in the new vehicle, then go back and sort that out.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Duncan said:


> Hi Miscrms
> 
> I am really interested in this idea can you help me with some confirmation
> You said I would need
> ...


Hi Duncan, I would definitely get a hold of the factory service manual and spend some time with it. There is a copy on nicoclub you can download. Note that the 2013+ are pretty significantly different than the 2011-12.

BCM is the Body Control Module, very similar to regular gas cars. In this application the most important thing it does is the security / start function. Its in the dash on the left side (at least on LHD).

VCM is Vehicle Control Module, its similar to the ECM in the gas vehicles. This is the main brains of the electric drive system. Its in the dash on the right hand side behind the glove box (at least on LHD).

Security Dongle is still a bit of a mystery. Its described in the security system part of the manuals, but not called out as to location, part number or description that I can find. Its purpose is to make it more difficult to use components stolen out of a vehicle, or to steal a vehicle by swapping an ECU or two, so my guess is they are intentionally vague in this publicly available manual. There are several small sensors/components that I have not yet identified, which I left on the wiring harness, so depending on whether or not I get dongle related DTCs I may be able to identify once I hook everything back up.

LBC is Lithium Battery Controller, and it is in the battery box. This is basically the battery BMS.

The Key can be used two ways. There are several active RFID type transceivers (key antennas) inside and around the vehicle to allow keyless entry and start. The one in the dash center area is the one that allows the vehicle to start when the key is in range. There is also a passive proximity sensor (NATS Antenna amplifier) located next to the power button, which allows the car to start when the key fob battery is dead by placing the key against the power button.

I haven't looked at it in detail yet, but from what I can see the shifter itself is just switches that feed into the separate ESC controller. Technically I guess they are non-contact / hall effect / magnetic sensors based on the description in the TM section of the manual, and there is also a truth table of what sensor states correspond to what gear selection. Unfortunately it looks more complicated than just a drive button.

So far I think the trickiest thing about getting discrete parts is probably going to be the wiring harnesses. The way things are distributed though the vehicle, you almost end up needing all of them. For example the cabin interior harness that mostly has stuff you don't need (lights, door controls, seat heaters, etc) happens to have the battery control connector on it. Also not having had the benefit of taking things apart and labeling all the connectors its going to be a lot more challenging to sort of which connector goes where on which harness. 

Once I get everything hooked back up I'm going to try and document which connectors on which harnesses are needed.

Rob


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## bbranch (Aug 4, 2015)

Watching this with interest... 
On this


> without the Leaf master cylinder / controller in place I won't be able to regen


are you thinking more of spoofing the Leaf brake system, or do you think there is a reasonable way to adapt and use the Leaf's ABS and brake controllers? This probably means wheel sensors as well? Maybe a can of worms. I am currently watching some Leaf salvage auctions as a way to potentially tackle my X-1/9 conversion. It seems like a great possibility based on your work so far, but would definitely need a solution for regen (I'm holding this as a base requirement for my project) and a way to simplify the wiring harness issue in your latest post. I'm hoping enough unwinding of harness and tracing what gets connected to what through various plugs and looms would yield a way to ditch stuff that has no way to use in our older classic cars...


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

Hope all is ok, it's been 5 months since the OP was on the forum.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Still kicking around, thanks  Unfortunately no progress to report, although I hope to finally have time to get back to it soon!!


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

miscrms said:


> Still kicking around, thanks  Unfortunately no progress to report, although I hope to finally have time to get back to it soon!!


Hurry up! This is the most exciting EV project there is!


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks, started cleaning out the garage last night to make room. Hopefully more to report soon!

Rob


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## jwiger (Oct 18, 2014)

+1 

I wish I was on my computer, I would share a picture of me 12 years ago surrounded by a mid-'80s Ford harness. I was stripping down a Mustang to fighting weight, the radio, heater, park-break buzzer, and seat belt warning light kind of junk all had to go. There was also a lot of "option" circuits in that car, It did come with four different engine combinations.

The picture is me sitting on the floor in pj pants testing continuity. I was in the living room, and my pregnant wife hated the smell of that un-wrapped harness. 

-The things us gear heads do...


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

So apparently all I needed was a kick in the pants 

Making good progress toward my tabletop demo. Completed most of the HV and harness connections. Need to go out and pull the pedal box from the Leaf, recheck connections, then should be ready to try powering up. Glad to see HV battery is still showing 370V, seems to have held charge well over the last few months.

In case you've ever wondered what most of a 2012 Leaf looks like without the Leaf 



















Included at this stage are all the main HV and control/display components: Motor/transaxle, Inverter, DC Junction Box, Charger, Charge port, Battery, LBC/BMS, Contactor JB, Safety Disconnect, Park Motor/Controller, IPDM and fuse boxes, VCM, BCM, Shifter and Gear Display, ESC (Shift Controller), Main and Upper Combination Meters, AV Unit and cluster, Menu buttons, Start button, NATS receiver, Front Interior SKS receiver, int buzzer and speaker. Pedal box and 12V accessory battery to be added soon. 

Hookup requires all 4 low voltage wiring harnesses: front motor room, main motor room / firewall interior, dash, and interior. I guess we'll find out soon how good my labeling job was  If I get the time I'd like to go through and catalog all the connections on each harness as a reference. 

Omitted currently are steering wheel controls, EPS and steering spiral sensor, steering column combination switch, all HVAC inc AC compressor and HV heater, all brakes (IBU, ABS, wheel sensors, yaw sensor, parking brake controller and motor, brake backup power supply, pressure sensors), all airbag components and controller, all door switches, QC port, seat heaters and switches, speakers, Digital audio unit, battery heaters and relay/control, interior / exterior lighting, TCU, GPS and TCU antennas, all cooling (water pumps, fans, sensors, etc).

Most of these omissions were tested in the final in vehicle road test, so hopefully will be able to get it to charge, power up, go ready, and shift into gear in this state with lots of warnings / DTCs. Hoping to have it up and running by Thanksgiving weekend, and post a demo video. Should also be able to demonstrate a more "minimal" setup without most of the controls / displays. As I start taking this back apart I'm planning to document component dimensions and weights. 

Then need to make room for the host vehicle to come in and start tearing it down.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I also may have solved the "security dongle" mystery. In several places in the 2012 service manual (June 2014 Rev) it calls out the dongle as "For Canada." The diagram on page SEC-21 is an example. That might explain why I hadn't come across a likely candidate. Hopefully that's one less thing to worry about.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Making progress, finally able to get into Drive and spin the motor!






Currently connected: Motor/transaxle, Inverter, DC Junction Box, Charger, Charge port, QC Port, Battery, LBC/BMS, Battery JB, Safety Disconnect, Park Motor/Controller, IPDM and fuse boxes, VCM, BCM, Shifter and Gear Display, ESC (Shift Controller), Main and Upper Combination Meters, AV Unit and cluster switches, Menu buttons, Start button, NATS receiver, Front Interior SKS receiver, interior I-Key antennas, int buzzer and speaker, Pedal box (accelerator, brake position sensor and brake switches), 12V accessory battery, Cooling system water pumps (electrical only), coolant temp sensor, heater (HV only), AC Compressor HV cable with interlock defeated. 

Hookup requires all 4 primary low voltage wiring harnesses: Main, Body, Motor Room, Motor Control. Not included are door harnesses and room lamp harness. All HV harnesses are connected to complete interlock.

Omitted currently are steering wheel controls, EPS and steering spiral sensor, steering column combination switch, HVAC inc AC compressor and HV heater (control), coolant / heating plumbing, all brakes (IBU, ABS, wheel sensors, yaw sensor, parking brake controller and motor, brake backup power supply, pressure sensors), all airbag components and controller, all door switches, seat heaters and switches, speakers, Digital audio unit, battery heaters and relay/control, interior / exterior lighting, TCU, GPS and TCU antennas, radiator fans.

Current status: After start up, drive ready light blinks for several minutes then goes solid. Once solid, can shift to D/N/R and transaxle spins in creep, and responds to accelerator. No response from brake pedal, I believe due to IBU not connected. May test this soon. After powering down, requires resetting DTCs on VCM before it will go ready again. I don't see a specific DTC causing this, may just be VCM reboot? Charging would not initiate until water pumps were connected electrically. Now the first charge indicator blinks and charger says "charging" but power does not ramp up as observed on LeafSpy. Charger shuts down after a minute or two. Even with the water pumps connected they still show DTCs, so I suspect that they are smart enough to realize they don't have coolant and aren't running.

Current DTCs in "On" after clearing:
*BCM:*
U1000 CAN Com
U0415 Vehicle Speed (ABS)
B2557 Vehicle Speed (ABS / Comb Meter mismatch)
B2626 Outside 1 Antenna
B2627 Outside 2 Antenna
B2628 Outside 3 Antenna (door key sensors)
*Charger: OK None*
*EV/HEV (VCM):*
P3194 CAN Error (ABS)
P3195 CAN Error (IBU)
U1000 CAN Com
P31B9 CAN Error (Electronic Parking Brake)
P31EE AC Refrigerant Pressure Sensor
P31E8 Water Pump 1
P31EA Water Pump 2
P31B7 CAN Error (Airbag)
P31B8 CAN Error (TCU)
P1564 ASCD Switch (Steering Wheel Switch)
*HVAC*:
B2579 In-Vehicle Sensor
B2582 Intake Sensor
B278D Compressor Com 
B2777 PTC Heater Com
B2790 Heat Pump Com
*HV Battery: OK
IPDM: OK
Meter:
*U1000 CAN Com
*Motor Control: OK
MultiAV: 
*U1000 CAN Com
U1258 XM Antenna
U1244 GPS Antenna
U1266 TCU Com
*Shift:
*U1000 CAN Com

New DTCs after going "READY" and Drive
*EV/HEV (VCM):*
P31C8 On Board Charger System (Charge Relay (-) Stuck)
P31C9 On Board Charger System (Charge Relay (+) Stuck)

These last 2 DTCs may be what need to be cleared before it will go ready again after driving and power cycling. They also may be interfering with charging, though I don't remember seeing them during previous charge attempts. I'll have to try that and check again.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, no luck on the theory of the cooling system interfering with the charging. I finally remembered that I had pulled the water pump fuses previously to test in the car with the cooling system drained. It had still worked then without the water pumps as best I can tell from my notes, and putting them back in and reconnecting the radiator fan made no difference in the behavior though it did resolve the related DTCs.

I am seeing the P31C8/9 Normal Charge Relay DTCs after the charge terminates unsuccessfully, so its looking like that is probably the culprit. This was not an error I had seen when things were in the car, so something is different. Most likely a wiring or grounding problem, but could be an issue in the VCM or DCJB has popped up in the last few months. 

Can't find a lot of discussion of the Normal Charge Relay in the service manual, but I gather it connects the DC output of the charger to the HV battery DC lines so that could certainly do it. I may have to break out my CAN sniffer and see if I can tell if the VCM is sending the proper requests for charge power etc. Alternatively I may have to open the DCJB and see if I can figure out why the Normal Charge Relays aren't engaging.

Hopefully will get some time to dig on that over the long weekend.

Rob


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks for the updates, this is very good progress and I'm excited to see it work!

You've probably considered this, but just in case you haven't: CAN needs termination on either end of the line. If you remove the module with termination (like the parking brake controller on the Model S) you may need to add termination resistors to keep CAN communication clean.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks Otmar, appreciate the encouragement. 

Glad you mentioned the CAN terminations, that's something I've been meaning to go back and check. It looks like they are ok though.

CAR CAN Terminations:
VCM & BCM

EV CAN Terminations:
VCM & LBC

To verify I should check the DC resistance from CAN-H to CAN-L on one of the disconnected ports on each bus. Should read ~60 Ohms as I recall if both 120 Ohm terminations are well connected. Should also probably check CAN-H and CAN-L are high impedance to ground/power.

In general I think all of the CAN related DTCs are expected and explained by known missing components, but the presence of so many DTCs does make it hard to rule out problems. I may have to suck it up and pull the last few controllers from the Leaf (IBU, ABS, EPS, Parking Brake) and connect them to make sure the remaining CAN errors go away as expected. I had generally been keeping the brake and steering systems in place on the Leaf so i can roll the chassis around as needed.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I had noticed that the speedometer was not responding when the transaxle was turning, and was wondering if this was a symptom of a CAN issue. From further reading of the service manuals I can't find any mention of a speed signal related to motor rpms, only to the wheel speed sensors provided through the ABS controller. So it would appear that is "normal."


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, making progress eliminating things, but not getting charging working 

Verified ~62 Ohms CAN H/L at the OBC. Also verified 12V Power and GNDs at the OBC. Pulled the cover on the DCJB. Verified connectivity from Control Signals from OBC to Normal Charge Relay + and -. Was able to manually operate both relays from the OBC connector by shorting each control to 12V. Also verified that unplugging one of the relay coil connectors results in a different DTC (B2827) from the OBC rather than the VCM. Lastly, verified that the Normal Charge Relays never close when charging starts. 

So it appears that the OBC is never sending the signals to close the relays. It may be that the observed DTC is the VCMs way of saying I told the charger to start charging but it never closed the relays so nevermind. 

Sounds like I'll have to get the CAN sniffer out at this point and try to see why the OBC is not deciding to close the relays and begin charging, but also not putting out any DTCs. Unless I get some other brainwave overnight.










Rob


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

I wonder if it wants to see the parking brake engaged before it will allow charging?

Does the Leaf Spy show a pack isolation value? It's a long shot, and I expect it would have thrown a DTC, but it's just the sort of thing that can happen when moving parts.

Keep it up!


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Leaf needs to be in Off for the charger to start charging. Charger is liquid cooled. 
When I tested the charging on the peg board, radiator and coolant was in place. I didn't disconnect them and test charging. 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

I posted this over on the Leaf forum as well, but here is a summary of my first look at the CAN data.

When plugging in the charge cable (L1) the system appears to power up as expected, the EVSE light goes to charging, and the first charge indicator starts flashing. However, according to both LeafSpy and my Watt meter the charger never ramps up power, and after about a minute the system shuts down. The EVSE goes back to ready, no fault. The same two DTCs P31C8 and C9 must be cleared from the VCM before it will start charging again. I have manually operated both normal charge relays from the OBC connector by shorting the control pins to GND in "power on" mode. Monitoring the control voltages during charge startup the OBC does not appear to be attempting to close the relays. Its also important to note that the DTCs observed are VCM errors, not OBC errors. If I disconnect one of the normal charge relays coil connectors then I get a DTC from the OBC. Lastly I've verified that the OBC connectors appear to have 12V power and GND on all expected pins.

CAN Data: Raw CSV files are attached. I've had to split the dumps into 2 parts, one covering the beginning of a charge, and one covering the end, as my program can only handle 9999 messages and I didn't want to filter until I knew what to look for.

0.0s 1F2 [2] 00 (Ready?) [1] 64 (Min Chg Power Commanded?)
0.2s 1DB BVS=511
0.2s 1DC Max CHG CUR 11111111111 (maybe anomalous, byte 0=FF)
0.3s 1DB BVS=*371* (measured 370V)
0.4s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 00010000, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) 00, [6] (Charge current?) 00
0.4s 1F2 [2] *20* (Charge?) [1] 64 (Min Chg Power Commanded?)
0.5s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) *00011000*, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) 00, [6] (Charge current?) 00
0.6s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) *01000000*, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) 00, [6] (Charge current?) 00
0.8s 5BC GIDs=1022
0.9s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01000000, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) *67*, [6] (Charge current?) 00
1.0s 1DC Max CHG CUR *00111111111* (maybe anomalous, byte 0=FF)
1.0s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01000000, [1] (line voltage?) *3C*, [3] ([email protected]?) *6F*, [6] (Charge current?) 00
1.1s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01000000, [1] (line voltage?) *95*, [3] ([email protected]?) 6F, [6] (Charge current?) 00
1.5s 5BC GIDs=*82* Consistent with LeafSPy and Voltage
1.7s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) *01001000*, [1] (line voltage?) *97*, [3] ([email protected]?) 6F, [6] (Charge current?) 00
2.0s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01001000, [1] (line voltage?) *96*, [3] ([email protected]?) *70*, [6] (Charge current?) 00
15.5s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01001000, [1] (line voltage?) 96, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 *END OF FIRST DUMP*
15.6s 1F2 [2] 20 (Charge?) [1] 64 (Min Chg Power Commanded?)

0.0s 1DC Max CHG CUR *00000111101* (probably correct, byte 0=6E)
0.0s 1F2 [2] 20 (Charge?) [1] 64 (Min Chg Power Commanded?)
0.0s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01001000, [1] (line voltage?) 96, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 *Beginning Second Dump*
3.5s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) *01010000*, [1] (line voltage?) 96, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 
3.6s 1F2 [2] *60* (???) [1] 64 (Min Chg Power Commanded?)
3.6s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) *01110000*, [1] (line voltage?) 96, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 
3.8s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01110000, [1] (line voltage?) *6C*, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 
3.9s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01110000, [1] (line voltage?) *30*, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 
4.0s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01110000, [1] (line voltage?) *00*, [3] ([email protected]?) 70, [6] (Charge current?) 00 
4.9s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01110000, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) *4B*, [6] (Charge current?) 00
5.0s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 01110000, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) *00*, [6] (Charge current?) 00
5.5s 1F2 [2] *00* (Ready?) [1] 64 (Min Chg Power Commanded?)
5.5s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) *00110000*, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) 00, [6] (Charge current?) 00
16.2s 5BF [2] (OBC Status?) 00110000, [1] (line voltage?) 00, [3] ([email protected]?) 00, [6] (Charge current?) 00 *END OF SECOND DUMP*

So it could be that the VCM is never instructing the OBC to ramp up based on constant 64 value in 1F2 Byte 1? Its also strange that the 5BF byte 3 value is 70, which if the equation for HV voltage at OBC in the spreadsheet is correct only translates to 322V. Not sure why their would be any HV there at all if the normal charge relays aren't closing, and why it would be so much lower than the reported (and measured) battery voltage. Unless perhaps that is the actual OBC min output voltage with no load or something. I guess that's all consistent with the DTCs being VCM related, but still not sure why the VCM isn't ramping up charge current. Will keep digging, this is my first time really looking at the CAN data.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks Otmar and 67BGTEV, both good thoughts!

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, the good news is I fixed the charging! The bad news is I'm an idiot 

Apparently I had reversed the connectors for the Heater and the Charger at the DCJB. Most of the connectors are unique, but it turns out those two are the same and I had only labeled them "DCJB."

The tip off was that I was measuring 370V DC inside the OBC where the HV lines come in, which should be impossible if the Normal Charge Relays are open, which I was pretty convinced they were.

Here's how it should look; the charger is connected to the plug on the side of the DCJB toward the bottom of picture, and the heater to the plug of the same size on the back of the DCJB:










Now charging at 1.5kW on L1 for about 10 minutes, no new DTCs, everything seems to be working just fine. Temperatures inside the OBC seem to be 120-140F, so I'm not going to run too long without cooling. But very relieved to have it working again 

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Also verified that it now goes ready in just a second or two, rather than the minute or so noted in the video. It is also no longer necessary to clear VCM DTCs after each power down. It will now power on to ready, go to drive, back to park, power down, and power back up to ready or to start charging as normal with no DTC reset. The normal charge relay control lines in the OBC now read ~0.35V when charging as they should (spec is <1V) rather than 13V seen previously.

Rob


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Good catch on finding the charger problem--glad it was not a show stopper...


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Posted a 3rd video, looking at what's likely the minimum set of components required to re-use a Leaf drive system without getting into spoofing controllers. Also demonstrate proper charging now that its all sorted out.






Currently connected: Motor/transaxle, Inverter, DC Junction Box, Charger, Charge port, QC Port, Battery, LBC/BMS, Battery JB, Safety Disconnect, Park Motor/Controller, IPDM and fuse boxes, VCM, BCM, Shifter and Gear Display (display likely not required), ESC (Shift Controller), Main Combination Meter, Start button, NATS receiver, interior I-Key antennas (should not be required, using NATs), Pedal box (accelerator, brake position sensor and brake switches), 12V accessory battery, AC Compressor and Heater HV cables with interlock defeated.

Hookup requires all 4 primary low voltage wiring harnesses: Main, Body, Motor Room, Motor Control. Not included are door harnesses and room lamp harness. All HV harnesses are connected to complete interlock.

Omitted currently are steering wheel controls, EPS and steering spiral sensor, steering column combination switch, HVAC inc AC compressor and HV heater (control), Refrigerant pressure sensor, coolant / heating plumbing, all brakes (IBU, ABS, wheel sensors, yaw sensor, parking brake controller, switch and motor, brake backup power supply, pressure sensors), all airbag components and controller, all door switches, seat heaters and switches, speakers, Digital audio (VSP) unit and internal speaker,, battery heaters and relay/control, interior / exterior lighting, TCU, GPS and TCU antennas, radiator fans, water pumps, coolant sensor, AV Unit, AV Cluster / AC Amplifier, Upper Combination Meter, Combination Meter Switches, SKS receiver, immediate charge switch, HL leveling switch, all seat other and center console switches/sensors/connectors.

Current status: After start up, drive ready light blinks for several seconds then goes solid. Once solid, can shift to D/N/R and transaxle spins in creep, and responds to accelerator. No response from brake pedal, I believe due to IBU not connected. May test this soon. Charging at L1 is now working fine. Will cycle power / ready / charge as normal with no need to reset DTCs now.

Current DTCs:
BCM:
U1000 CAN Com
U0415 Vehicle Speed (ABS)
B2557 Vehicle Speed (ABS / Comb Meter mismatch)
B2626 Outside 1 Antenna
B2627 Outside 2 Antenna
B2628 Outside 3 Antenna (door key sensors)
Charger: OK None
EV/HEV (VCM):
P31B3 CAN Error (AC Auto Amp)
P3194 CAN Error (ABS)
P3195 CAN Error (IBU)
U1000 CAN Com
P31B9 CAN Error (Electronic Parking Brake)
P31EE AC Refrigerant Pressure Sensor
P31E8 Water Pump 1
P31EA Water Pump 2
HV Battery: OK
IPDM: OK
Meter:
U1000 CAN Com
Motor Control: OK
Shift:
U1000 CAN Com

Dash shows I-Key error (due to missing door sensors I believe) and T/M System Malfunction (likely multiple causes, probably IBU/ABS mainly) as well as warning lights for PS (power steering not connected), BRAKE (parking brake not connected), traction control/VDC (ABS not connected), ABS, Brakes warning (IBU/pressure sensor), airbag (not connected), EV System warning, headlight warning (not connected)


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

As I start tearing down the tabletop demo, I'm trying to document some of the dimensions and weights of the main components. 

Here are a few to start.

Inverter (dry, as pictured): Weight 35.6 lbs, Max Extent 18.5" x 12.5" x 7.75"

























OBC / Charger (dry, as pictured): Weight 35.6 lbs, Max Extent 25.25" x 10.75" x 11.75"

















LBC / BMS: Weight (as pictured) <2.2lbs (scale threshold), Max extent (without bracket) 10" x 5.5" x 1.25"

















Pedal Box (as pictured): Weight 5.8 lbs, Max Extent 14" x 7.75" x 8.5"

















Rob


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## AntronX (Feb 23, 2009)

> Inverter (dry, as pictured): Weight 35.6 lbs, Max Extent 18.5" x 12.5" x 7.75"
> OBC / Charger (dry, as pictured): Weight 35.6 lbs, Max Extent 25.25" x 10.75" x 11.75"


Charger weighs same as inverter?


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

AntronX said:


> Charger weighs same as inverter?


Yeah, I did a double take on that too and re-checked it. Seems to be the case. Scale may be a bit coarse down in this range, its a cheap 550lb capacity bathroom scale that I picked up for checking vehicle wheel weights.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

A few more:

DC/DC J/B (dry): Weight 33.2 Lbs, Max Extent 22.25" x 15.5" x 6.75"

























Charge Port (as pictured): Weight 9.8 lbs, Max Extent 22.5" x 12" x 12"


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

It's interesting to see the differences between your model year and the 2015 Leaf. The black spring return is on the inside of the pedal box on mine while yours is outside. The shape of the inverter, DC-DC ( combined with the charger becoming the Power Distribution Module on mine), and the motor which you didn't show in this group of pictures. The charge port looks similar but mine doesn't have quick connectors.

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Electronic Shift Control Module: Weight 2.2 lbs (ESC, Shifter & Display), Max Extent (with bracket) 7.75" x 4.5" x 4.5"

















Shifter: Weight 2.2 lbs (ESC, Shifter & Display), Max Extent 6.25" x 5" x 9.5"

















BCM: Weight 2.0 lbs (BCM & VCM), Max Extent (with bracket) 7" x 6.5" x 3"

















VCM: Weight 2.0 lbs (BCM & VCM), Max Extent 8" x 6" x 1.5"


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

HV Disconnect: Weight 3.2 Lbs, Max Extent 11.125" x 6" x 6"

















Battery JB: Weight (as pictured w/Connector) 7.6 Lbs, Max Extent (JB Only) 13" x 5" x 4"

















Pretty much just the motor and battery left. Been saving the heaviest for last


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

HV Wiring Harnesses (except Motor to Inverter, Charge Port Pigtails): 10.2 lbs

Motor Room Harness (with IPDM and Fuse/relay boxes): 23.6 lbs

Main Harness (with fuse box): 16.8 lbs

Body Harness: 14.2 lbs

HV Battery 1/2 Pack (with HW as pictured): Weight 229 lbs, Max Extent 35 3/16" x 15" x 8 7/8"

























Battery weight should be pretty close, but may be some error due to rigging. After lowering onto scale I tried to support the weight of the chains to minimize their impact. 3 consecutive trials yielded 228, 229, and 231 lbs.










Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

List of all harness connectors used in demo (hopefully). Details in PG section of factory service manual, but took some serious delving into the wiring diagrams in pretty much all sections to sort of what was what.


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Radiator / Condenser / Cooling Fans (dry): Weight 16.8 lbs, Max Extent 31" x 16" x 7.25"


















HVAC Blower Unit (Heater Core, Evaporator, dry): Weight 16.8 lbs, Max Extent 23" x 17" x 19.5"


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Motor / Transaxle / Mounts / AC Comp (as pictured, coolant dry, gear oil fullish): Weight 218 lbs, Max Extent 32.5" x 26.5" x 16.5"


































As with the battery, the motor weight may be somewhat affected by the weight of the rigging, though I did try to lift the weight of the chains after I dropped it on the scale. 3 consecutive readings were 218, 216, 224 (no lift on loose chains).


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

*Snapshot of first post, going to start updating with latest results.*

I've seen cases where some folks are working on re-using individual components from a Nissan Leaf, but am wondering if anyone has done any work on what it would take to use the complete system (battery, bms, motor, inverter, charger) while retaining the VCM controller to talk to these components via CAN? There are certainly some downsides to this approach in terms of flexibility, and likely some challenges to keeping the VCM happy outside a Leaf, but it seems to me the advantages in terms of retaining a fairly robust, proven integration and control system (not to mention not having to reverse engineer the proprietary control scheme) could be substantial.

If anyone has done any tinkering in this realm I'd very much like to hear your thoughts / experiences!

I don't have a Leaf to play with yet (hopefully getting a salvage one in the next few months) so I've started by digging into the factory service manuals for the 2011 MY Leaf to try and get a sense of what the minimum number of components would be to allow the VCM to function fairly normally (ie likely showing DTCs, but no significant reductions in performance / capabilities). In particular there is an interesting table beginning on page EVC-79 which shows the relation of various DTCs to failsafe conditions generated by the VCM. I started by looking at the CAN communication related errors, figuring that this would be the first gate to pass when the VCM comes online. What controllers is it looking for traffic from before it will allow the system to go ready and energize? 

That resulted in the following table:










From this first test, it looks like the following would be required at a minimum:
Motor
Inverter
Battery
LBC (BMS)
Charger
Shifter

That seems like a pretty manageable list for starters. 

The next challenge looks to be the BCM. It would be tempting to try and leave the BCM (and most of the CAR-CAN network) out. This may be possible, but it would likely take some sort of spoofing controller development. There are a couple of key security related DTCs in the VCM that seem aimed at preventing this. In particular the following P16** series DTCs will prevent the VCM from going ready even on ready request from BCM:

P1610 VCM Lock Mode when BCM Com failure occurs while going ready 5 times
P1611 ID Mismatch result between BCM/VCM
P1612 VCM/BCM Inactive Com between VCM and BCM
P1613 NATS Malfunction / Com Line (desc from non-Leaf manual)
P1614 NATS Malfunction / Can't get Key ID (desc from non-Leaf manual)
P1615 NATS Malfunction / Key ID mismatch (desc from non-Leaf manual)

So in addition to providing the ready signal on the correct pin of the VCM, it does seem like there would have to be a certain amount of CAN traffic from the BCM recreated to keep the VCM happy.

Although the BCM is normally running a lot of stuff (seems like most of the control switches, lights, wipers, door locks, etc) its failsafe list looks pretty reasonable.









So basically it wants to see the power button / NATS amp, the security dongle with correct ID, the VCM with correct ID, the Key with correct ID, and the IPDM. So if you have the VCM, BCM, Dongle and Key all from the same vehicle it seems like you should be ok. Otherwise I believe the Consult tool is required to register the new IDs.

The IPDM is basically the fuse/relay box, but even it has its own CAN controller. There are a number of DTCs that relate to consistency between the states / voltages of various relays and signals that arrive at various controllers and the CAN messages from the IPDM that tells the same controllers what those states should be.

The only condition that appears to put the IPDM into a failsafe / default settings mode is communications failure with the BCM. Most importantly this mode keeps the ignition relay in its present state, so presumably would prevent startup. So in general the IPDM should be reasonable to use as long as the BCM is present, otherwise there will be some work to do. Without the IPDM there would be some challenges to solve, mainly all the required relays, fuses, and CAN traffic expected by the BCM/VCM.

The IPDM controller would seem to need to be present for the VCM to operate the DC/DC converter normally.

Digging through the rest of the list, here are some other things that could be issues and thoughts on using other components.

U10** errors: Not sure who generates these? Seems like maybe just each individual controller can generate them if there are general communications problems on the CAN bus, but need to understand better. 

Contactors - located in the battery box, the VCM wants to see these working as expected. Assume should be used pretty much as is.

ED-IBU - master cylinder / brake controller, looks like you can go without it but will not be able to use regenerative braking if its not present. Its the IBU that sends a brake torque request to the VCM. Would be interesting to see if the brake pressure sensors will be ok with having the hydraulic lines just capped off or if you'd have to either use the Leaf calipers or adapt the leaf master cylinder to the host vehicles calipers? Would presumably need brake pedal sensors / switches if trying to use the IBU.

Throttle sensors - There are two, it looks like the resistance of one it twice that of the other. The two need to be consistent with one another and in the right voltage range to keep the VCM happy.

Cooling System / water pumps - In general seems like a good idea to use the stock liquid cooling system as much as possible, perhaps with the radiator substituted for the host vehicles if its relatively comparable? The VCM does look for a reasonable PWM duty cycle on both water pump drivers.

AC - Looks like it can be done without. Although its driven by the HV system I believe you need the AV Ctl (or the equivalent CAN messages) to control it.

ABS / Traction / Stability / Steering control - somewhat surprisingly to me at least, looks like the VCM is ok without this present which seems like a good thing for re-use flexibility. BCM seems to be ok too.

Airbag - crash sensor can shut HV system down, but VCM seems ok if its not there.

TCU - telemetry controler, car wings app interface, VCM seems ok without it 

Comb meter - Speedo, etc, VCM ok without it, but no ASCD (cruise control)

AV Ctl - controls dash display and buttons I believe, VCM ok without but no charge timer or pre-AC.

That's what I've got so far. You can view the whole spreadsheet that I've been making notes in here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L6-BZ-tbyuR7V2o-B8_pewGph_tKKjo8etcJuW12-jg/edit?usp=sharing

Again, any thoughts, insights, experiences much appreciated! If there are any significant findings / discussions I'll try to keep this top post updated.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

First post updated to show a summary of current project status.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

The heater is required unless you sort the interconnect. 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Yeah, I shorted it on both the heater and AC comp cables. I'll try to make that clearer, thx.

Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

One of the things that concerns me (at least a little bit) due to my planned build is this. What happens when I shift? How is the resolver/motor control unit/brake system going to react when I let off the throttle and the motor spins down but the wheels are still rolling at speed? I can see where that might freak something out.

I think only time will tell and it's going to be awhile until I get there.

Bill


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Hey Bill, good question! 

If there does seem to be an issue when shifting, disconnecting the wheel speed sensors might be the solution. Though one of the unknowns is whether regen will function correctly without the wheel speed sensors in place. I had tested this briefly (just backed out of the garage and back in), but not enough to know if regen was working. Wishing I had tested that out more completely while things were still in the Leaf.

Another question, have you done any analysis to see whether there is really any benefit to shifting? I'm assuming you need the transmission to help get the final drive ratio right from the motor to the wheels, but there might not be much of any performance improvement from changing gears. The electric motor's torque / power curve looks very different from an ICE. With the stock 8:1 reduction you get flatish torque (~200-240ftlbs) to 3,000 rpm, and then flatish HP (~105-110) from there all the way to 10,000rpm. 

Playing around with the Excel dyno (linked below) I was unable to find any other gear ratio or 2 speed gear combination that resulted in any significant improvement in 0-60 time or more than a few tenths in 1/4 mile times.

http://www.offroadvw.net/exceldyno/

Here is the data I came up with for the Leaf motor and several other electrics I found data for. I was happy to see that the Leaf motor even did well against the dual AC35 when you adjust the gear ratio to keep top speed similar.









Rob


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

I haven't really analyzed much of anything, actually. I'm just flying by the seat of my pants, to misuse a cliche. Well, that's not completely true. I did some fiddling with a different calculator that I found on the forum here, but I don't remember what I learned from it.

If I remember correctly, the Leaf is RPM limited to about 95-ish MPH, due to the stock gear ratio. It seems reasonable to think that the ability to change the gear ratio would allow the car to reach a higher top speed. Maybe not for drag racing but surely on a road course. On the other end, if I get the hankering to do some autocross, the ability to choose a lower gear ratio with the high RPM motor should allow for some "blazing acceleration". This is of course speculation until I get things running. I have a feeling you'll get there before I do...


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Very cool project. If I didn't already have my EV components I'd go this way.

For the dtcs, have you considered spoofing the missing modules can data stream? I do this on my bmw EV conversion to fool the car the ECU is still there when it is not and keeps the rest of the car happy


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Great photos! Any idea what would be required to remove the heat pump and operate it in another vehicle? Thinking just the heat pump - if it could be made to fit into the other vehicle's duct/housing.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Consider installing seat heaters instead of a heart pump. Space heating is very expensive in EVs


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

@Thaniel: I will likely do this eventually. I do have a USB CAN interface that I've been playing with a bit. My plans for now are to just get it working and ignore any non-fatal DTCs though.

@tomofreno: It probably could be done. Unlike the Prius, the compressor on the Leaf seems to have its own integrated inverter. So it just needs ~345V @ ~2.1kW. The control system is mostly in the VCM though, so this would likely have to be replicated in a custom CAN controller.

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

So... In case anyone else finds themselves in the strange position of having to roll up the windows in a Leaf _after_ having removed all the wiring harnesses 

For all 3 doors other than the driver front, this can be done from the connectors at the door edge where they plugged into the body/main harnesses. Connecting up/down to GND and +12 to power will allow you to use the power window button. Connector pinouts are in the PG section of the manual. Pin assignments are in the PWC section.

Front Passenger: D2 15=power, 14=Down, 13=Up
Rear Driver: D61 14=Power, 15=Up, 16=Down
Rear Passenger: D41 16=Power, 15=Down, 14=Up

For the drivers front door, I had to pop off the control panel to access D37 and apply +12V to pin 3, GND to Pin 2 directly to the motor. I suspect the auto up / pinch feature / position encoder was preventing me from doing this at D22 from the door edge.

Rob


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## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

> How is the resolver/motor control unit/brake system going to react when I let off the throttle and the motor spins down but the wheels are still rolling at speed?


I'm not sure how the leaf inverter works, but in my case, taking the foot off the throttle would just command zero torque (or command some negative torque if you wanted).


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Any progress to report? Super excited to hear any updates!


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks for checking in. Made some good progress tearing down the host vehicle, and starting to test fit the motor and batteries as reported in the Sonett thread. Have been stuck for a while waiting to get my 240V outlet installed in the garage for the welder. It should have been straight forward, but found some other semi-serious wiring problems in the house in the process. Finally got those sorted, and now installing the 240V. Hopefully more to report soon!

Rob


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## surojitsenabc (Jul 10, 2016)

Hi Rob, hope you are doing great! 

I am also working on a Nissan leaf powertrain salvage project just like yours and have found your post very helpful. Your videos also are really insightful! Have you progressed further in your project? 

I had a question to ask. I am working on the 2013 model and when I try to run on minimum connections to the harness, I find one wire connecting to the steering column necessary for the car system to invoke. I think it is the steering able sensor although I'm not so sure. Here are some pictures. Hope you could help me. Thank you so much!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I have a similar setup on a 2015 model and haven't found it necessary to have anything connected to the EPS system

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## surojitsenabc (Jul 10, 2016)

skooler said:


> I have a similar setup on a 2015 model and haven't found it necessary to have anything connected to the EPS system
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Thanks for responding. I would assume the said connection is for the steering lock mechanism and unhooking this triggers a security DTC which prevents BCM to supply a READY signal to the VCM. Any suggestion on how to get rid of it?


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Very psyched to hear that you are both trying this too! A big part of why I started this project was to try and encourage others to try it by reducing some of the risks. Sadly my own project is dragging on due to real life intrusions, but I sincerely hope to be back at it soon. Part of it is getting over my fear of screwing it up now that I'm at the cutting and welding stage and just getting on with it. The other problem is that its 112F outside and my garage isn't cooled 

If you have links to your projects anywhere please post here, I'd love to follow!

Rob


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Sorry I don't know more about the 2013+ systems, and didn't run into that on the 2012. Is there a DTC being generated when you don't have that connection? That might give you a clue which controller is objecting.

One thought, I don't currently have the braking system connected (IBU and ABS controllers) which might make a difference. They will be required to get regen, and I had seen some indication they might complain if the steering angle sensor isn't present. Haven't gotten far enough to figure out if this was going to be a failsafe condition or just a warning DTC though, as my first attempt is going to retain the host vehicles braking system for simplicity.

Rob


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi All,

Will drop this in here. Haven't had time to start a thread.

We have been doing some similar work with the second gen leaf system.

Picked up a flood damaged 2015 Tekna (UK top spec) a couple of months ago. No issues whatsoever despite there being tide marks on the steering wheel!

We now have it stripped to the minimum set of essential components plus a couple of extras (screen, charging indicator, obd, water pump etc)

We have also removed significant ammounts from the harnesses. anything not required has been removed to simplify things.

See pics. Will also upload a video.

Complete system









Removed cable









Works as expected. We have some minor problems with the parking gear as we have also removed the reduction box. If anyone has any ideas how to remove it and fool the wiring that would be appreciated. It is currently setup with a socket in its output attached to a breaker bar screwed down to a pallet to imitate the parking mechanism!

I will also be splitting the motor from the inverter. I need to change its direction. Anyone know if i can simply just swap two phases? 

Required components:
Motor stack
Battery
HV cables
Resistive heater (for HVIL circuit)
AC pump (for HVIL circuit)
Key reciever
Another key box (not labelled)
Top dash key antennae (blue plug)
Start switch (two parts)
Dash fusebox
PRNDB selector
Pedal box (mine has switches Frankensteined to the target vehicles box)
BCM
VCU
IPDM
Two smaller fuseboxes
Larger fusebox
Keys
12v battery
Chademo inlet
J1772 inlet


Extras:
Drivers display,
OBD
Charging indicator
Water pump
Radiator temperature
Radiator fan
A/C temperature

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Videos....

Early before harness stripdown.

https://youtu.be/XfnK_TIaCqA

https://youtu.be/H7HZD_6-S34

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

surojitsenabc said:


> Thanks for responding. I would assume the said connection is for the steering lock mechanism and unhooking this triggers a security DTC which prevents BCM to supply a READY signal to the VCM. Any suggestion on how to get rid of it?


Apologies missed this. Afraid i haven't found it to be a problem.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Very nice skooler! Thanks for posting!

Do you know what it's going into yet? Look forward to seeing your progress!

Rob


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

miscrms said:


> Very nice skooler! Thanks for posting!
> 
> Do you know what it's going into yet? Look forward to seeing your progress!
> 
> Rob


No prob. The gen2 system seems simpler than the gen1 system.

I should post more detail but stuck for time.

Afraid the project is 'top secret' but being unveiled in a few weeks *gulp*.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> No prob. The gen2 system seems simpler than the gen1 system.
> 
> I should post more detail but stuck for time.
> 
> ...


If anyone has any specific questions then happy to answer.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

We're currently shoehorning a 2014 Leaf (Gen 2) Drive System into a 1967 VW van 

It's early days although we have the system running on the bench and a ~50kWh battery in final assembly (using the Leaf BMS). I'll start a build thread when I get a moment...


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## Otmar (Dec 4, 2008)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> We're currently shoehorning a 2014 Leaf (Gen 2) Drive System into a 1967 VW van


I've got a 1965 VW splittie bus that my late father bought brand new waiting to become an EV. I keep thinking a late Leaf would be a good graft. I'll be eagerly watching your progress!


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Awesome Kevin, love seeing this start to catch on! Please share the link when you have one. 

I would think a Leaf drive in a VW Bus would be pretty awesome. Must be almost double the stock HP and Torque, and with the weight reduction it might not fare much worse than the stock Leaf on range at least at reasonable speeds. Should be impressive with double the battery. Are you going for the whole FWD stack in the back of the Bus?

Rob


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi

Recently i got a Leaf motor and transmission and i am preparing for a conversion.
Also i found good AC compressor. Can any of you tell me how is it started? From Nissan documentation it looks like it has a serial port. Can you see if a CAN string is required to start compressor and/or how?
My idea is to start AC in donor car, using custom microcontroler and compressor would turn on and did its job. 
You have any data on compressor operation?

tnx


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Sorry, I don't. My setup retains the VCM and AC amplifier to talk to the compressor. But I believe you are right, the VCM and AC amplifier talk to each other over CAN, but the AC amplifier communicates directly to the compressor via a two wire serial like interface.

Rob


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Folks, doesn't Skooler have a part converted RX-8 in his yard... Sounds like it could have a hell of a reincarnation!


Tyler


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

miscrms said:


> Sorry, I don't. My setup retains the VCM and AC amplifier to talk to the compressor. But I believe you are right, the VCM and AC amplifier talk to each other over CAN, but the AC amplifier communicates directly to the compressor via a two wire serial like interface.
> 
> Rob


I checked factory manuals. It seems only UART serial is neccessary to run compressor. 
AC amp sends serial command as compressor target rpm and then receives back actual rpm. 
Would you be able to record their serial string as AC amp signals compressor start, when compressor reaches working rpm and some signals in between? Maybe use some serial terminal logger?

My idea would be to start compressor with old AC clutch signal and cars own AC would command compressor trough some microcontroller that would provide serial comms and also some time buffer in case of short on/off states. System would be digital mostly, wasting some energy but it could work.
This way electric compressor could be used in any donor car.

Are you able to record working system? I tought it is best to bugg you since you have the system out and accessible. Is AC working?

tnx


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

tylerwatts said:


> Folks, doesn't Skooler have a part converted RX-8 in his yard... Sounds like it could have a hell of a reincarnation!
> 
> 
> Tyler


RX8 is in the bodyshop. New 32KWH battery pack, chademo inlet and a facelift :-D. Same Kostov 11Alpha and Soliton1 that powered it before the accident. Cant wait - getting bored of the leaf now!

This is the latest project (unveiled yesterday):
https://twitter.com/Indra_rt/status/772394218409033728


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm happy to report that my table-top Leaf seems to be working perfectly with the 48kW battery pack (using the Leaf BMS)


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Otmar said:


> I've got a 1965 VW splittie bus that my late father bought brand new waiting to become an EV. I keep thinking a late Leaf would be a good graft. I'll be eagerly watching your progress!


I'm sure I'll be able to keep you entertained


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Nice work Kevin, How have you got the BMS working with the 48Kwh battery? Was it a case of just doubling up the modules using the existing BMS, or is there more hacking involved.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

miscrms said:


> Awesome Kevin, love seeing this start to catch on!


Thanks for the inspiration 



miscrms said:


> I would think a Leaf drive in a VW Bus would be pretty awesome. Must be almost double the stock HP and Torque, and with the weight reduction it might not fare much worse than the stock Leaf on range at least at reasonable speeds.


When new the VW Bus would have had 30-50 bhp 

Range will be interesting... obviously the VW Bus aerodynamics are pants and the 48kWh battery will weigh more than 400kg (880lbs)... but cruising at 50-60mph is the norm and I hope that with CHAdeMO it will make a practical vehicle for touring 



miscrms said:


> Are you going for the whole FWD stack in the back of the Bus?


I'm upgrading the suspension using a Red9 IRS on the back... it looks as if the whole Leaf motor/inverter/charger stack will fit without cutting the bus... I will know more when the IRS arrives in December


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

favguy said:


> Nice work Kevin, How have you got the BMS working with the 48Kwh battery? Was it a case of just doubling up the modules using the existing BMS, or is there more hacking involved.


I doubled up modules after having a discussion with Wolf regarding the Leaf BMS... I had new busbars made and cut up the insulators to accommodate them (I purchased new insulators direct from Nissan for $100 each). I'm trying to reuse Leaf parts because they are readily available at low cost 

I'll start a new thread on my build


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I'm happy to report that my table-top Leaf seems to be working perfectly with the 48kW battery pack (using the Leaf BMS)


Well, very good! 

I have tried the motor and transmission and they work ok with sinus inverter. I will build Pauls inverter now. 
However my interest for future built is also in Leaf AC compressor. Since you can run your system, can you record serial string from AC module to compressor? I would need ascii or hex caracters from system start to when functional compressor rpm is reached ie. when AC is working fine . Can you record that on your system using some serial terminal?

tnx

Arber


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

arber333 said:


> Can you record that on your system using some serial terminal?


AC is already stripped down on this system... I do have another salvaged Leaf which afaik has working AC. If you send me full instructions on how/where to connect to the serial stream I'll take a look when i get a moment.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi, that would be great!

AFAIK Compressor has its own inverter inside. It runs off 350VDC but is controlled by some UART serial interface. There is a 4 pin connector F10 (small pins) on compressor. Pins are 12V VCC pin 4 and GND pin 3, pin 2 is TX and Pin 1 is RX from A/C computer. 
Pdf files of wiring attached.

I would need recording from RX pin 1 on compressor side. I.e. what commands is the A/C computer sending to start compressor and keep it at speed. You could use a computer with RS232 to USB converter and some terminal software like RS232 Port Logger or Free Serial Analyzer etc...

I imagine you would connect wire from connector F10 pin 1 to pin 2 of serial connector DB9 and F10 pin 3 to DB9 pin 5 as GND. If you connect GND then signals will have same reference and you dont have to connect VCC too.
http://www.db9-pinout.com/

tnx

A


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Well done- this is a huge leap for the DIY community, especially with all these used Leafs in the 'States going for $7k, and wrecked ones of course for less..DIY electric car kit in a box- with wheels!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

I installed 4R7 resistors on each of the 9 air bag connections today... this fools the SRS diagnosis sensor into turning off the air bag warning light and stops DTCs from being generated 

In the long term I want to emulate the air bag module via CAN. However, for now this simple hardware hack will do


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Kevin. Why? Are you using the stock dash? You know that the system works perfectly without the SRS module?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

skooler said:


> Hi Kevin. Why? Are you using the stock dash? You know that the system works perfectly without the SRS module?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


without generating DTCs?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ai! said:


> without generating DTCs?


Of course it would generate DTCs but everything else functions as it should. Exacly what we have done on a couple of systems now. Providing you aren't using the stock display you'd never know about it!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hi Kevin. Why? Are you using the stock dash? You know that the system works perfectly without the SRS module?


I may (or may not) use the stock dash on my projects... my initial goal is to have a clean car with no DTC's or unwanted warning lights


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

skooler said:


> Of course it would generate DTCs but everything else functions as it should. Exacly what we have done on a couple of systems now. Providing you aren't using the stock display you'd never know about it!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Are there any good replacement for the stock dash that is working with leaf canbus?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ai! said:


> Are there any good replacement for the stock dash that is working with leaf canbus?


Not really. Leaf spy gives some information. It is the same problem as any conversion though. We are looking at to interface it with an EVIC or similar.

We are buying powertrains direct from Nissan and fitting them to the same vehicle (hopefully in the 100s). Obviously a lot more development time can go into this than a standard, one off conversion. 

We had considered an app but for me, using a tablet or similar looks like an afterthought and using the leaf dash looks like a bit of a hack.

For a one off it could look quite cool.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

skooler said:


> Not really. Leaf spy gives some information. It is the same problem as any conversion though. We are looking at to interface it with an EVIC or similar.


I'm also interested in expanding the display options... my preference would be an open source solution that allows traditional gauges and/or digital displays to emulate the Leaf display functionality. If anyone is interested in this and/or knows any suitable projects that have been started then please let me know 

For interest I'll disassemble the Leaf Displays to see what options exist for simply repackaging the component parts


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Here's my build thread 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/1967-vw-split-screen-van-ice-177489.html


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

can anyone give me some pointers on collecting and sharing CAN data?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> can anyone give me some pointers on collecting and sharing CAN data?


I'd invest in something like a kvaser leaflight. Comes with some very good analyser software.

What exactly do you want to do with it?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

miscrms said:


> Updated with progress 12/11/2015


Rob, did you have any luck interfacing the torque app with the Leaf (I've seen your post on MNL)?


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

skooler said:


> I'd invest in something like a kvaser leaflight. Comes with some very good analyser software.


Thanks, I'll take a look 



skooler said:


> What exactly do you want to do with it?


Reverse engineer the complete Leaf 

Specifically, I'm planning on commissioning some open source projects that will help people reuse the Leaf systems... displays is an obvious area... we're also interested in the BMS


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Thanks, I'll take a look
> 
> Reverse engineer the complete Leaf
> 
> Specifically, I'm planning on commissioning some open source projects that will help people reuse the Leaf systems... displays is an obvious area... we're also interested in the BMS


Nice. We were looking at using GEVCU for exactly that.

Warwick control stock the kvaser units.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## jason_arnold (Jan 15, 2014)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> can anyone give me some pointers on collecting and sharing CAN data?


*Hardware:* EVTVDue Microcontroller - a $99USD clone of the Arduino Due with built-in CANbus. Captures CAN data using the open-source GVRET (Generalized Vehicle Reverse Engineering Tool).

*Software:* SavvyCAN - free cross-platform (Windows/OSX/Linux) software to collect/analyze/share CAN data. It's slick. See it in action: https://youtu.be/kdA5Gdf3FAk

I defy you to find better bang for your buck


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

jason_arnold said:


> I defy you to find better bang for your buck


Many thanks... I met Collin Kidder at EVCCON a couple of years ago... I have no doubt it's a great product


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## jason_arnold (Jan 15, 2014)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Many thanks... I met Collin Kidder at EVCCON a couple of years ago... I have no doubt it's a great product


Indeed. It occurred to me after I posted that you and I met you at the same EVCCON. It's a shame that Jack had a falling out with New Electric over your "celebration" event not long after 

I'm working with a local group of converters myself and have been politely nudging those with time/resources to commit them to the LEAF drivetrain so we can join this effort. Of course, having a repository of CANbus captures/logs will go a long way in getting things off the ground, which all starts with a robust (and ideally common) capturing platform - it's great to see others with the same goal!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

We've started looking at options for reusing the Leaf's displays;

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/leaf-instrument-displays-177729.html


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

jason_arnold said:


> It occurred to me after I posted that you and I met you at the same EVCCON.


Ah, yes... sorry I didn't make the connection 



jason_arnold said:


> It's a shame that Jack had a falling out with New Electric over your "celebration" event not long after


We're not the first (or last) 



jason_arnold said:


> I'm working with a local group of converters myself and have been politely nudging those with time/resources to commit them to the LEAF drivetrain so we can join this effort. Of course, having a repository of CANbus captures/logs will go a long way in getting things off the ground, which all starts with a robust (and ideally common) capturing platform - it's great to see others with the same goal!


I completely agree!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi

Do you have any data about Leaf motor thermistor values above 40°C? Is there some reference which sensor it uses?

tnx

Arber


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I may (or may not) use the stock dash on my projects... my initial goal is to have a clean car with no DTC's or unwanted warning lights


You can put in the SRS computer (if it is from a crashed Leaf, you will first need to clean the hard code from the crash from EEPROM memory - I have a hex dump for a 2011 SRS unit and I still need to do the same for a 2013 unit so I have no lights on my dash from that, but it is low prio at the moment)
you can simulate presence of the squibs by putting a small 2 Ohm resistor where the squib is supposed to be. Not sure if you can replace the sensors with something else or need to plug in the sensors. I have a door sensor from the driver door laying around that I can measure to see if it can be simulated so you only would need the SRS computer itself to extinguish the light on the stock dash.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

I am involved with a light truck that has received the complete drivetrain from a 2013 Leaf (provided by 67BGTEV and Mike) including the halfshafts and front suspension and wheels plus all computers and wiring.
The battery and battery management (LBC) has not been in a dry location, so the LBC got damaged and some connectors on the sense wires burned, since there is almost 100V across them, so seeping rainwater will start a violent galvanic corrosion.
Also, the LBC being destroyed and subsequently trashed by the owner of the truck caused an incomplete set of computers, so I am scouting for another 2013+ wreck to pull the necessary computers from in order to get the truck going again, fix the last errors and put it on the road. It will be some time as I have also been busy with my own Leafs and those of several neighbor/friends and my own EV truck that is receiving 2 Leaf packs. Plenty projects to keep me busy this year...


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

In this case if You connect other LBC to the stock VCM it will be needed to write the dealer key (or something like that) to get the VCM to work with another LBC, otherwise the speed of the motor and the car itself will be reduced to 40 km/h


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Yup, I found this out quickly when I placed a different battery into my Leaf and it did not want to go faster than 25 MPH.
I had to open the original battery, remove the LBC (and wire harness since it was different than the harness in the replacement battery) and mount that all into the replacement, then I was able to drive normally again.
I have done similar things a couple times now so I am well aware of the issue.
You cannot program the LBC for a different car, only a dealer could potentially do this but they were unwilling to even give an answer if they could do this on a used battery - they only match new batteries to cars
using the unique key that comes with the new battery.
If you blow up an LBC then the best thing you can do is buy another one from the same year range (2011-2012 or 2013+) and then swap the EEPROM from the blown-up board into the replacement, so it thinks it is the original and you have a chance to bring the car back to normal operation.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> can anyone give me some pointers on collecting and sharing CAN data?


I've done a bit of work with Can bus interfaces between ICE engines and can bus cars. Perhaps I could assist in some way. 

These leaf projects I think are really cool. I love the tech but I think leafs are ugly. A primary reason I haven't bought one. So these projects are the best of it all!!

If there is something I can do drop me a message.

Thaniel


A few links to some of my work on my can bus projects.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1887229-E46-Can-bus-project

https://www.facebook.com/Can-Bus-Module-1152590784834832/?ref=bookmarks

http://e46canbus.blogspot.com/


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

Thaniel said:


> ...
> These leaf projects I think are really cool. I love the tech but I think leafs are ugly. A primary reason I haven't bought one. ...


Agreed!
I think the proper term is Fugly!!


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Personally I think the design of the Leaf is pretty slick, with smart details like headlights shaped to reduce wind hitting the mirrors, hence the sweeping protrusions, but to each his own.
The whole reason projects like these exist is that apparently the tech of the Leaf is enviable enough to be stolen from a (crashed) Leaf and the effort put in to make it work in a different vehicle, to upgrade it to Leaf performance and features. I think that is cool.
The other project that I have going on in my garage at the moment is to make a two-headed beast, I mean - a double-pack install in an EV truck
with two BMS'es (each guarding and continuously balancing its "own" pack) and paralleling the two for driving and charging.
I am getting underway of installing the first pack so I should have the truck moving soon under Leaf battery power, but with its own controller.
Just need to reprogram the controller to allow higher charge and cutoff voltages to protect the Leaf pack.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

skooler said:


> We have been doing some similar work with the second gen leaf system.
> 
> Complete system


I spent a few hours with Mike yesterday and got to ride in one of his Leaf based conversions. It was very, very impressive


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I spent a few hours with Mike yesterday and got to ride in one of his Leaf based conversions. It was very, very impressive


Thanks Kevin,

Quite amazing how a leaf drivetrain in a 2.2ton RWD vehicle will do donuts! 

We are using a 13:1 drive ratio which gives us about 70mph top speed - designed to be 'just' motorway capable.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

Thaniel said:


> I've done a bit of work with Can bus interfaces between ICE engines and can bus cars. Perhaps I could assist in some way.
> 
> These leaf projects I think are really cool. I love the tech but I think leafs are ugly. A primary reason I haven't bought one. So these projects are the best of it all!!
> 
> If there is something I can do drop me a message.


I'm coming late to the party but, I'm also interested in figuring out the various Leaf components and how to use them outside of a Leaf. As a bonus, I have a 2012 and a 2013 Leaf so I can do captures between the two different generations of Leafs. I have a 2012 Leaf drive train that I'm supposed to be spinning outside of the car and without any Leaf parts but the motor and inverter. I just haven't gotten to it yet. 

As one might imagine, I have a few CAN related tools so that's not an issue. I've already got a dual CAN setup wired for the Leaf so I can do captures while using them.

If I can help with something then just let me know. I can modify the software or get captures, stuff like that.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CKidder said:


> I'm coming late to the party but, I'm also interested in figuring out the various Leaf components and how to use them outside of a Leaf. As a bonus, I have a 2012 and a 2013 Leaf so I can do captures between the two different generations of Leafs. I have a 2012 Leaf drive train that I'm supposed to be spinning outside of the car and without any Leaf parts but the motor and inverter. I just haven't gotten to it yet.
> 
> As one might imagine, I have a few CAN related tools so that's not an issue. I've already got a dual CAN setup wired for the Leaf so I can do captures while using them.
> 
> If I can help with something then just let me know. I can modify the software or get captures, stuff like that.


Wicked! I am still waiting for someone who would record AC compressor serial port signals from startup to full rpm. I have AC compressor from 2012 Leaf, but there is no AC unit. Nissan documents suggest it responds to UART TX RX serial commands and it can also send messages. If you could do a capture of commands on RX line while compressor spins up i could try it on my AC unit with PC or even CAN DUE controller i got from Jack.

tnx


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Wicked! I am still waiting for someone who would record AC compressor serial port signals from startup to full rpm. I have AC compressor from 2012 Leaf, but there is no AC unit. Nissan documents suggest it responds to UART TX RX serial commands and it can also send messages. If you could do a capture of commands on RX line while compressor spins up i could try it on my AC unit with PC or even CAN DUE controller i got from Jack.
> 
> tnx


Ug... They used a serial connection for that huh... Well, that's inconvenient. I guess the easiest approach would be to whip out a Saleae Logic and do a logic analyzer capture of the RX pin while the AC is starting up. I'll have to look up the pinout for the AC compressor.

EDIT: Looks like the low voltage pinout is:
1 - TX from Compressor
2 - RX to Compressor
3 - Ground
4 - Switched +12v

With the pinout like this if you are looking into the plug:

3 1
4 2

I'll see if I can get a capture of the traffic.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

The compressor is down low on the car surrounded by all sorts of crap and the low voltage plug is behind the high voltage plug. There is a bracket in the way of me getting anywhere close. Do you happen to know where else I might grab the UART lines? They appear to run toward a large wiring harness near the center of the engine compartment. But, getting to that is even a little tight. Perhaps I could find the wires in there if I traced down the color codes or something. I have the car in the shop today and I'll try to trace down the wires but if anyone has a quick idea or pointer to where the easiest place is, nows the time.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CKidder said:


> The compressor is down low on the car surrounded by all sorts of crap and the low voltage plug is behind the high voltage plug. There is a bracket in the way of me getting anywhere close. Do you happen to know where else I might grab the UART lines? They appear to run toward a large wiring harness near the center of the engine compartment. But, getting to that is even a little tight. Perhaps I could find the wires in there if I traced down the color codes or something. I have the car in the shop today and I'll try to trace down the wires but if anyone has a quick idea or pointer to where the easiest place is, nows the time.


I have wiring and instruction for Leaf 2012 attached here. Page 26 Pin1 and Pin2 wires go from compressor to pin14 and pin18 on AC auto amplifier located in center console under display. Page 36 shows AC amp connector. Wire colour are pin14 L and Pin18 W. But it seems there are two other connectors in between as seen on page 45.

Nissan colour code:
*B* = Black
*W* = White
*R* = Red
*G* = Green
*L* = Blue
*Y* = Yellow
*LG* = Light Green
*BR* = Brown
*OR* or *O* = Orange
*P* = Pink
*PU* or *V* (violet) = Purple
*GY* or *GR* = Grey
*SB* = Sky Blue
*CH* = Dark Brown
*DG* = Dark Green

Link to Nissan Leaf docs
https://ownersmanuals2.com/make/nissan/leaf-2012-372
Hope this helped

Arber


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

I believe that I found the RX and TX wires for the compressor. They do seem to run to a junction under the hood on the driver's side. The plug has 46 pins. 

I tried to capture the traffic but I've run into a snag. The voltage levels for the serial lines are 5V and 1.7v. This doesn't work very well for capture with a logic analyzer as 1.7v isn't generally low enough to count as "low." This causes the analyzer to either not catch the transitions or to trigger only for less than a microsecond. 

I might have to try to capture the signal with a DSO but it tends to be tough to capture for long that way. Otherwise, it would probably be required to build a circuit that has the proper response and hysteresis to turn the 5 to 1.7v signal into 5 to 0 volt so the logic analyzer accepts it. I've been trying to use a Saleae Logic (1st gen) and the levels are 0.8v is low and 2v is high. So, I could try a 2x voltage divider but that yields 2.5v and 0.9v which is rather close to the trigger point. A comparator circuit could be constructed to turn the Leaf signal into 5v / 0v logic. But, I don't have comparators just sitting around. Any fun tricks would be appreciated if someone has some way to make these levels work with a logic analyzer.

I don't know how much the compressor cares about the voltage levels. I don't know what it would do if we could decode the comm and then someone tried to drive it with 5v to 0v logic. I suppose maybe they could have used 1.7v as a way to detect an open wire or shorted condition. 

So close, so far away.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

CKidder said:


> The voltage levels for the serial lines are 5V and 1.7v. This doesn't work very well for capture with a logic analyzer as 1.7v isn't generally low enough to count as "low."


You could use a simple comparator, but why not 2 diodes and a pull down resistor, so you create approx 1.2V drop and measure across the resistor at voltage levels which should then be 3.8 and 0.5V?


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

Cor said:


> You could use a simple comparator, but why not 2 diodes and a pull down resistor, so you create approx 1.2V drop and measure across the resistor at voltage levels which should then be 3.8 and 0.5V?


That's not a bad idea. Two diode drops would probably be enough to bring the voltage levels down so that both are within the proper target areas. I'll give that a try.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i got my leaf compressor now and i also got the harness. Any news on the signals? Maybe you could put an opto on the connector at the end of the line at compressor. Like LED protected by large resistor and open collector transistor end with pullup resistor to some 5V. That way there would be signalling and minimmum amp draw on signal end. 

A


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

arber333 said:


> Well i got my leaf compressor now and i also got the harness. Any news on the signals? Maybe you could put an opto on the connector at the end of the line at compressor. Like LED protected by large resistor and open collector transistor end with pullup resistor to some 5V. That way there would be signalling and minimmum amp draw on signal end.
> A


Did you also get the high voltage wires?
I have a compressor and wires and hoses from parting out a 2011.
Checked the service manual and saw that the compressor only has 6 wires, the 2-wire control, the 2-wire HV bus, 12V and a connection to the heater pump.


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## BlackForest (Dec 9, 2016)

Hi everybody,

I am very new to EV conversion and learning from day to day. Finally, I hope to have found my solution in using a Nissan Leaf as donor car. But there are still some questions - and perhaps you can help me.

I want to use the whole Leaf system in a minimal setup. My conversion car should be a Porsche 924. There will be ABS and a brake booster, but no power steering, no a/c etc. The car will weight ca. 1.100 kg (2.400 lbs). The plan is also to go clutchless. 

Porsche 924 is a transaxle car, that means motor at the front, transaxle to the rear >> gear >> RWD.

http://www.924.dk/cms/images/transaxle.gif
https://www.carid.com/images/articles/transaxle-vs-transmission/porsche-924-front-engine.jpg

Ideas (Update after Duncans post):
Transaxle and old gear goes out, instead of it I will place the unit motor + gear (old Nissan Leaf) in the back of the car. Batteries go to the front (keeping the car in balance).

Changing the pedals with Nissan Pedals, but use the old instruments (speed, rpm) by creating an interface. I just need a short info-display about capacity of the battery and charging status. Perhaps using the old fuel gage to show battery status? And for the charger a little display, that I can place somewhere?

No recuperation, no wifi, no extras... keep it simple... 


My questions are:

What is the minimal setup to achieve this goal? The less I need the better... 

Could there be any problems? In a video I saw that the main display of the Leaf is necessary because of the speed signal. Is there an easy fix to that or does I need some spec. components to keep the system running?

Many thanks in advance!

btw - planning to do the conversion end of the year... so got time...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
I would lose the transaxle as well
Use the complete Leaf motor transmission unit in the back in place of the transaxle and put the batteries in the front
I think that the early Leaf had the inverter separate but in the later ones it is on top of the motor - may make the combined unit a bit too tall


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## BlackForest (Dec 9, 2016)

That sounds very good. For this I can save weight (transaxle) and also stuff that can go bad.

But then I must take the gear lever of the Nissan, I think.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

The Leaf does not have a multispeed transmission - it is just a a reduction gear and diff
so the "gear lever" is just some switches to tell it forwards reverse and park


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Correct, the gear selector in the Leaf is just a few switches and electrical wires to tell the computer to drive, reverse and put the Leaf in "Park" (there is an electrical park motor on the electrical drive motor / reduction gear / differential unit.
Indeed the "Gen 1" (2011 and 2012 model years) have a separate "motor plus gear" unit and a separate inverter. And a separate power distribution and a separate charger. In the 2013+ models, these are all integrated in one unit.
BTW, the Leaf has an additional handbrake for parking, it too is operated by a switch on the center console and it runs a motor under the luggage space with two brake cables to the rear wheels. This works independently from the "Park" lock in the gearbox and also independent from the foot brake; the foot brake actually operates two systems: it will use the electric drive motor to generate power back into the battery (if all necessary computers are present, otherwise this recuperation is offline) as well as using hydraulic pressure into a smart distribution unit that takes care of intelligent braking, ABS and so on.
There is a Youtube called "minimal drive system" that tells you which computers and displays are needed for the car to work.
For example the Airbag computer is not needed to drive the car, it will just give you a warning. But if the car speed is not reported then it will not work normally. Also if the High Voltage system is not receiving all OK signals then you need to jump the parts that are not present otherwise the car will not move. For example the battery box has two contact points that must be closed for the BMS to report OK to the car: the 2 contacts on the HV plug in the front and the 2 contacts on the service disconnect.
If either of these is not present, then you must jumper the two wires together so the BMS sees the two wires connected and will report that the battery is OK to drive. All High Voltage plugs have these two contacts that need to be made to pass the OK check.
Hope this helps!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Cor said:


> Correct, the gear selector in the Leaf is just a few switches and electrical wires to tell the computer to drive, reverse and put the Leaf in "Park" (there is an electrical park motor on the electrical drive motor / reduction gear / differential unit.
> Indeed the "Gen 1" (2011 and 2012 model years) have a separate "motor plus gear" unit and a separate inverter. And a separate power distribution and a separate charger. In the 2013+ models, these are all integrated in one unit.
> BTW, the Leaf has an additional handbrake for parking, it too is operated by a switch on the center console and it runs a motor under the luggage space with two brake cables to the rear wheels. This works independently from the "Park" lock in the gearbox and also independent from the foot brake; the foot brake actually operates two systems: it will use the electric drive motor to generate power back into the battery (if all necessary computers are present, otherwise this recuperation is offline) as well as using hydraulic pressure into a smart distribution unit that takes care of intelligent braking, ABS and so on.
> There is a Youtube called "minimal drive system" that tells you which computers and displays are needed for the car to work.
> ...


Sorry but there a quite a few inaccuracies in this. 

the leaf system is far simpler than you make out. It is very simple - plug and play with the bare minimum components. yes you get a few errors but they do not affect the drive of the car.

Vehicle speed in particular is not important.

We are down to (on a 2015 UK spec Tekna):

Complete motor stack without AC (harness unmodified) including the park lock actuator.
Main ECU (VCM)
BCM
IPDM
J1772 inlet
Chademo inlet
Water pump
Coolant temperature sensor
Brake pedal switches (not the brake pot)
Accelerator HEPA
Start button and encoder
Two key sensors (both dash area, one above hvac and one in centre console)
Telematics module
Key security module (the bit welded to the dash crossmember)
Two original relay boxes from the engine bay harness
Repackaged HV battery with standard BMS
Heavily modified dash harness (with interior fusebox)
Body harness stripped down to just HV battery comms connector
The key

We also kept:
The OBD2 connector, the Binnacle connector and the 4 button connector for cycling through the dash display if required.

Quite simply plug and play with those components.

Finally, the gear selector is quite complicated. there are 10 internal switch positions which all need to do a certain thing in a certain order for each position.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Hi Mike,
Thanks for clarifying what you found to work as minimum set.
It is a bit different than what I see demonstrated in the YouTube video
that an EV'er made. I am helping to get a pickup truck going with Leaf
drive train from a 2013, so I am getting familiar with what is needed and
what is nice-to-have to just keep dash lights off.
The Youtube video suggested that one part of the display was needed
because it maintains the speed of the vehicle, but I may be mistaken and
confused with the NHW-20 Prius which maintains speed in the Combination Meter, which when it fails, prevents the vehicle from shutting off as it
cannot determine whether it is stopped or not.
The critical set of computers that are required to be from one car to allow
the transplanted Leaf to work (as far as I know) are:
VCM (aka ECM)
BCM (Body Control)
LBC (battery computer)
intelligent key (RF-ID and optionally SKS)

There are other computers required to work, but not necessarily from the same vehicle. I will need to review the YouTube video again and compare with your list. I have not seen any mention of a Key Security Module before - is that just the receiver of the SKS part of the key fob or does it partake in the secure identities and if swapped with another vehicle's module it might not allow the car to work? Just curious.
I am guessing that the Telematics computer is not needed for operation.
In fact, here in USA the Telematics does not work any more for all 2015 and older Leafs, since it was 2G and that network stopped last month.
That is why Nissan USA is holding an action that for $199 you can upgrade the TCU to the newer mobile standard.
Since you did not keep the intelligent brake, the car won't do regenerative braking if I understand it correctly.
BTW, my comments about simple switches in the gear selector does not mean that its working is simple or that there are few switches, I only meant that there are no mechanical links or complex electronics, only switches in the gear selector, wired electrically to the computer in the car.
I have seen others also repackage the 2 quarter-packs into the much more compact shape of the halfpack with 24 modules on top of each other, instead of 2+2+4+4 modules stacked side by side. I plan to do this also to the truck that I am helping with.
In my own EV I have used a different layout, as much as possible keeping the Leaf's interconnections for easy wiring but splitting up the stacks differently to allow 2 full Leaf packs to fit in my truck, under the bed.
Hope this clarifies!
Cor.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Hi Mike,
It is smart that you kept the Binnacle connector, because Rob Smith says that he needed the lower display unit in order to make his 2012 work, because apparently that unit relays the car speed and without that info the car does not know what is happening. See his Youtube aboutMinimal Drive system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCOi19S71W4


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Cor said:


> Hi Mike,
> It is smart that you kept the Binnacle connector, because Rob Smith says that he needed the lower display unit in order to make his 2012 work, because apparently that unit relays the car speed and without that info the car does not know what is happening. See his Youtube aboutMinimal Drive system:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCOi19S71W4


One thing worth noting is that the battery (well BMS) is paired to the vehicle. with the incorrect BMS the car goes into a kind of limp mode. We found that not having the binnacle installed means the car is no longer in limp.



Cor said:


> so I am getting familiar with what is needed and
> what is nice-to-have to just keep dash lights off.


Do you plan to use the leaf Binnacle? Why?




Cor said:


> The Youtube video suggested that one part of the display was needed
> because it maintains the speed of the vehicle.


Not required at all. We just kept the connector for troubleshooting.



Cor said:


> The critical set of computers that are required to be from one car to allow
> the transplanted Leaf to work (as far as I know) are:
> VCM (aka ECM)
> BCM (Body Control)
> ...


Add IPDM to that list.




Cor said:


> I am guessing that the Telematics computer is not needed for operation.


We found it is in the UK but this could be different in the USA
in the UK there is a battery lease model where charging of the battery is disabled if payments are not kept up. 



Cor said:


> Since you did not keep the intelligent brake, the car won't do regenerative braking if I understand it correctly.


We still get regen at the full level - you get typical lift off regen in the leaf and then we get additional regen when the brake switch is activated.



Cor said:


> In my own EV I have used a different layout, as much as possible keeping the Leaf's interconnections for easy wiring but splitting up the stacks differently to allow 2 full Leaf packs to fit in my truck, under the bed.


Take a look at Kevin Sharpe's posts -he has done exactly this.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I installed 4R7 resistors on each of the 9 air bag connections today... this fools the SRS diagnosis sensor into turning off the air bag warning light and stops DTCs from being generated


Ah yes, I had the same idea and have used this trick on other cars as well.
I checked the wiring diagram in the Service Manual, I believe you have a 2013+ and found that the odd number is caused by the fact that only the driver has a lap pre-tensioner in addition to the seatbelt pre-tensioner. In fact, I believe only one DTC is generated for either squib as I needed a resistor on both wires to quiet the last DTC. Passenger only has the seatbelt pre-tensioner.
One question - both the driver and passenger front airbag (steering wheel and dash mounted) show two squibs which are independently wired to the SRS computer, which brings the total number of squibs to 11:
2x steering wheel
2x dash
2x curtain l+r
2x shoulder l+r
2x seatbelt l+r
1x lap (driver only)
Is the car that you have stripped equipped with fewer airbags or did you trick the double-squibbed outputs with a single resistor?
Indeed my aim is also to extinguish all lights on the dash, since the truck that I am involved in retains the original dash and I prefer to be able to see a serious problem in a light turning on, so I can't just black out the fault lights (I could do that with the airbag light, but it will still light the general red error light as well as throwing up the display messages).
So, you do not need to connect the sensors in order to have no airbag DTCs?


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

skooler said:


> One thing worth noting is that the battery (well BMS) is paired to the vehicle. with the incorrect BMS the car goes into a kind of limp mode. We found that not having the binnacle installed means the car is no longer in limp.


What? Remove the display and the car drives normal again without its own BMS (LBC)? I need to try that!


skooler said:


> Add IPDM to that list.


You are confirming that without or with wrong IPDM it will not drive? That is bad news!


skooler said:


> Take a look at Kevin Sharpe's posts -he has done exactly this.


I checked this thread from page 1 and see that he has doubled up the modules for each BMS input. I have advised others to do that also. I have even advised others on how to use the Leaf BMS on lower voltage packs - it is just a matter of adding optos between the ASICs and adding an additional sense wire for each, then you can "alias" the BMS inputs onto smaller packs.
My own build has been two independent Leaf batteries, each connected to its own BMS and wired to the two contactors that only connect them together when driving or charging. The truck was already set up for two independent (lead-acid) packs and I simply replaced each with a full Leaf pack. Both LBC's CAN bus are wired to the dash and I plan to reprogram a CANary to show the two packs on its two displays. For the time being I use a 2-pole toggle switch and an ELM327 plus LeafSpy Pro.
The truck is a US Electricar '94 S10 longbed with battery box under cabin and bed. It's Dolphin controller can charge and drive with a very large range of input voltages. Limits are programmable and can be over 400V so high enough to allow an unmodified (96 cell) Leaf pack to be used. Pretty much a drop-in, besides some mechanical work and care with HV wiring to a disconnect switch instead of the Leaf plug and the provision of the 12V battery and ignition signals (I actually use the contactor coil power to send 12V to the LBC's ignition and charge power inputs in addition to the unswitched 12V battery power to keep the LBC running and balancing.
To avoid confusion: my own build is just to drop the two Leaf packs into an existing EV truck. The other truck that I am involved in, uses the complete Leaf drivetrain and due to blowing the LBC (I have a strong suspicion it was due to mixing Gen 1 and Gen 2 battery wiring, which are incompatible even while the connectors are mechanically identical (!!!!)
that truck is no longer driving, so I am retained to take over the electrical work on that truck and once it is in driveable state, I will find someone with a love for body work to finish the job. Hope this clarifies.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

It needs then IPDM. Not sure if it is paired and you need the original.

Yes. Removing the screen removes the limp mode feature. I can only assume that the other half of the battery pairing is held in the screen!?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

skooler said:


> Removing the screen removes the limp mode feature. I can only assume that the other half of the battery pairing is held in the screen!?


This is even worse news - it means that not only the critical computers + key but also the lower display and possibly the IPDM are required to be from the same car or else it won't work normally, this makes it so much more difficult to get everything from the same car unless you buy a complete working (salvage) car.
I unfortunately missed a nice opportunity on Copart to buy a car with a lot of body damage, because this coming week I have no time to pick it up and storage fees would kill the deal, as well as not having a place to safely store it and take it apart. Hope to get a better opportunity soon!


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

*Who is interested in 2015 inverter/motor or interior/exterior/suspension parts?*

I am involved in trouble-shooting a pickup truck that is converted with a (2013) Leaf drivetrain.
However, over the course of the project some mistakes were made and in particular the BMS computer (LBC in Nissan language) was damaged and discarded before I got involved, but the LBC is coded to the other computers in the car (in particular to the instrument cluster, it seems) so the only way to get the project rolling again is to install a matched set of computers from another Leaf.

For that purpose, I consider buying a black 2015 Leaf that was rear-ended but otherwise seems in good shape.
Doors, the whole front end, seats, airbags and so on appear to be in great shape.
I only need the battery and the computers plus the lower instrument cluster, everything else is available so the combination of inverter, charger, motor and transmission is available plus all suspension, halfshafts, rear axle, doors and everything on the front end: all lights, hood, bumper, bumper cover, radiator, A/C heatpump, intelligent brake system, pumps, harness and fuse boxes.
Also all interior such as seats, carpeting, headliner and all airbags.
BTW, I have an undamaged aluminum rear bumper sitting in my garage as well as some interior trim pieces and door speakers.
Let me know your interest, so I can decide if it makes sense to buy the salvage Leaf and strip it.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

skooler said:


> It needs then IPDM. Not sure if it is paired and you need the original.
> Yes. Removing the screen removes the limp mode feature. I can only assume that the other half of the battery pairing is held in the screen!?


Skooler, if you say "binnacle" are you talking about the combination meter that displays the charge and temp of battery? Or the top instrument that displays the speed?
Or do you mean the center display with radio selection and Airco control?
I need to figure out which part that has the complement to the LBC.
And can anybody confirm if the IPDM is required from the same car?
Thanks!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

A few more internal photos's from the 2014 Leaf instrument displays;

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177729


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Cor said:


> This is even worse news - it means that not only the critical computers + key but also the lower display and possibly the IPDM are required to be from the same car or else it won't work normally, this makes it so much more difficult to get everything from the same car unless you buy a complete working (salvage) car.


You can reprogram these components using the Nissan Consult III PLUS tool. Unfortunately, it's very expensive 

I heard a rumour that LeafSpy Pro may support module reprogramming in a future version  The latest iOS app (version 1.4.19) now reads ECU versions


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

So, who can confirm which are the computers that you need from a single car to get them going outside that car?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Cor said:


> So, who can confirm which are the computers that you need from a single car to get them going outside that car?


I already did a few posts ago....


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

The UK Leaf steering column has both a EPS control Unit and a Steering Lock unit...they have the same connector  Here's how I know;

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=839361&postcount=35


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## miscrms (Sep 25, 2013)

Somehow I stopped getting notices on posts to this thread. I'm psyched to see how much activity is going on in this area even if my own project remains stalled out due to an unexpected job change!

Thoughts on the combo meter, I haven't seen any info to suggest that the combo meter has anything to do with VCM/LBC pairing. If I had to guess I'd say there is a loophole in the software that basically ignores limp mode if its not getting speed info from the combo meter, since it needs to know speed to enforce limp mode? That's a pretty awesome find! 

While my experiments did seem to indicate I needed the lower meter, it's perfectly possible I came to the wrong conclusion there. These were early days of experimenting while tearing down to try and have a better idea where to start when I got to the build. 

Keep it up y'all!

Rob


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## eyeN (Jan 10, 2011)

I just wanted to say thanks to the contributors on this thread, especially skooler, cor, and Kevin. After reading through and watching some of cor's youtube videos, I was able to free the working drive system from a 2014 LEAF.

I bought it for the battery, which is going into a 2000 Ford Ranger EV, but I'm selling the rest of the drive system on ebay. If anyone is interested in picking up one of the very nice, vertically integrated drive units you can find it here:

Auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/292027226746?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Video: https://goo.gl/photos/1dZZpidcKe98MQSL8

Cheers,
ian


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Cor said:


> Did you also get the high voltage wires?
> I have a compressor and wires and hoses from parting out a 2011.
> Checked the service manual and saw that the compressor only has 6 wires, the 2-wire control, the 2-wire HV bus, 12V and a connection to the heater pump.


Yes i have a HV wires with connectors and LV wire loom that is still joined with some other wires. LV wires jolin to large multi pin connector. I gather this goes to A/C auto amplifier. 

I would like to try the compressor operation on my car battery 380Vdc but i dont know the correct UART sequence for starting and then signal for rpm setting. 
When evaporator air is at 0°C compressor should stop and when temperature rises to 4°C it will start again. It should be simple integrating this with in car A/C relay. I just have to know 
1. start command
2. stop command 
3. maybe 2 or 3 RPM settings between 50% and 80% of compressor speed

If anyone can record signals from a working LEAF compressor i could then try to interpret and setup my micro controller to clone those signals.

There are still Tx Rx lines, that means inverter wants to put out something. I have to check if this is just reporting or it needs any response to work...

tnx

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CKidder said:


> That's not a bad idea. Two diode drops would probably be enough to bring the voltage levels down so that both are within the proper target areas. I'll give that a try.


Any luck? 
I was thinking, since TTL chips have like 0.8V treshold, couldnt you just connect one to compressor signal connector Vcc across GND with pullup resistor to raise GND reference on chip by 1V7. 5V - 1V7 = 3V3 and then record UART signal trough PC? I think max232 would work from 3V3? 

A


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## Ruudi (Dec 17, 2009)

Is it possible to run Leaf motor with original systems from lower voltage battery? Leaf has 96S pack. Would it run with 88S Li battery pack? Would it run without BMS? If it will not how to make it think that everything is fine?


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## MrZion (May 4, 2016)

miscrms, I would really like to talk about the feasibility of doing this type of conversion, please send me a PM.

Cheers


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## zepol_wube (Oct 31, 2015)

Ruudi, look at what Wolftronix.com is doing with breaking up LEAF packs and reprogramming the BMS.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Ruudi said:


> Is it possible to run Leaf motor with original systems from lower voltage battery? Leaf has 96S pack. Would it run with 88S Li battery pack? Would it run without BMS? If it will not how to make it think that everything is fine?


Define "Leaf Motor".
The motor will run fine on any AC controller programmed for approx this motor and voltage, there is not much difference between 88s (350V) and 96s (380V)
If you want to re-use the full Leaf drivetrain and inverter to drive the motor and want it to work on 88s pack, that is a bit trickier, you will need to trick the BMS into thinking that it still has the full 96s pack, which is not too difficult but requires a bit of electronics and wiring.
In theory, a simple switching power supply for an ink jet printer or other small AC-DC supply that can work on any voltage between 100-240V and delivers 32V or more is what is needed, plus a series of resistor voltage dividers. Let me know if you need more info.
Cor.


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## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Hey folks, I have been enamored with this thread for some time and I decided to do a similar wholesale swap of a leaf drivetrain into a jeep CJ7. I plan to maintain the entirety of the leaf electrical system including ABS and electric steering. I just hit my biggest snag to date.... I accidentally on purpose cut the wiring loom from the two saddle battery packs to the BMS module without clearly identifying the wire colors and positions. Even though the car is a 2011, I was blessed to have Nissan warranty the battery two years ago and the date of the battery is 6/2015. Would anybody be willing to help me color code the BMS wiring extension to the two siamese packs? Thanks in advance!

James


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ruudi said:


> Is it possible to run Leaf motor with original systems from lower voltage battery? Leaf has 96S pack. Would it run with 88S Li battery pack? Would it run without BMS? If it will not how to make it think that everything is fine?


I was running Leaf motor with Pauls inverter up to 3500rpm. From there i got to desat or OC limit. I now think i used too little capacitance. Only 1300uF mixed film and elcaps. 
I ran the motor at 60Vdc and at 220Vdc and finally i ran it at 400Vdc. Result at high voltage was explosive. Very fast acceleration. Lots of torque. Once motor jumped two feet in the air. However my cables on caps to inverter melted due to some side currents. 
Will try again soon.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Dudeguy said:


> Hey folks, I have been enamored with this thread for some time and I decided to do a similar wholesale swap of a leaf drivetrain into a jeep CJ7. I plan to maintain the entirety of the leaf electrical system including ABS and electric steering. I just hit my biggest snag to date.... I accidentally on purpose cut the wiring loom from the two saddle battery packs to the BMS module without clearly identifying the wire colors and positions. Even though the car is a 2011, I was blessed to have Nissan warranty the battery two years ago and the date of the battery is 6/2015. Would anybody be willing to help me color code the BMS wiring extension to the two siamese packs? Thanks in advance!


Hi James!
Since you have a BMS from 2nd generation (2015) you need to use the service manual from that year to find the correct pinning of the BMS.
Do *NOT* plug in the BMS before you have *double-checked* that every voltage on the actual BMS plugs is correct, before plugging the connectors into the BMS. Wrong voltage *will* blow up the BMS and the BMS is coded to the computers to allow the car to drive, so if you mess up the BMS, you must repair it or clone it, else you need to get a new complete set of computers or build a "translator/isolator" computer that will trick the Leaf into thinking that everything is OK with the battery, not helpful if all you want is to put the drivetrain into a different vehicle.
I can send you the service manual and point to the page where the BMS wiring is shown (which cell connects to which pin in the BMS plugs) so you can take a voltmeter, attach it to the lowest point on the battery (the saddle pack on the right side, connecting to the black unit with relays) and then you can probe the BMS plugs (use a needle or piece of blank wire that is *thinner* than the pins in the sockets, to avoid bending the contact springs too far out) and make sure you never touch more than one point on the batteries to avoid electrocuting yourself....
Step through the order that the cells should be connected to the pins according to the schematic (a little tricky as the plugs are drawn in mirror image as looking from the wire side of the plugs, while I probe from the open side of the plug) and count and re-count the pins and open positions and veryfy that you see exactly the correct 4V step up every time you go to the next cell connection.
After double-verifying this, you are ready to plug into the BMS *after* making sure that the high current wires between the sub-packs are in place, at minimum the jumper between the two saddle packs, as the BMS will be toasted if this one is missing, because there is no other path than through the sense wires...
Send me a PM for the service manual.
Cor.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Dudeguy said:


> I accidentally on purpose cut the wiring loom from the two saddle battery packs to the BMS module without clearly identifying the wire colors and positions.


ouch, there might be someone here (or mynissanleaf) with the pinout handy, but you might be able to sort it out by examining what they plug into and/or some experimenting.

I think this is *just* enough info to figure it out fwiw, you might have to look inside a bms module to figure out the polarity/etc.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17470


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

dcb said:


> ouch, there might be someone here (or mynissanleaf) with the pinout handy, but you might be able to sort it out by examining what they plug into and/or some experimenting.
> 
> I think this is *just* enough info to figure it out fwiw, you might have to look inside a bms module to figure out the polarity/etc.
> http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17470


I have them in an excel spreadsheet. Send me an email and I will attach (cant attach here)

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

can you put it in a zip file and post it so everyone can get it?


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## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Thanks Cor. I was aware the BMS is voltage sensitive and that a switched wire would disable the BMS. I'm annoyed at myself for jumping the gun on cutting the harness before I really evaluated whether or not that was a good idea. So far everything has been a case of it's better to be lucky than smart.....


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

Dudeguy said:


> Thanks Cor. I was aware the BMS is voltage sensitive and that a switched wire would disable the BMS. I'm annoyed at myself for jumping the gun on cutting the harness before I really evaluated whether or not that was a good idea. So far everything has been a case of it's better to be lucky than smart.....




In the event that you have one of those eff it moments, and figure it's not worth your time... http://m.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-Leaf-B...3A5bbfd08f15c0a9e487527806fffcfad8%7Ciid%3A24

250 bucks... couple days at work? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Dudeguy said:


> Thanks Cor. I was aware the BMS is voltage sensitive and that a switched wire would disable the BMS. I'm annoyed at myself for jumping the gun on cutting the harness before I really evaluated whether or not that was a good idea. So far everything has been a case of it's better to be lucky than smart.....


Just be aware that a switched sense wire does not *disable* the BMS, it will *smoke* the BMS. (as in: popping craters in the sense chips)
With the correct service manual (2011 and 2012 have all white connectors and are *not* compatible with the 2013+ BMS which has colored connectors. Even though the plugs fit, the pins are in different places = smoke guaranteed!) you should be able to figure all wires out by counting along the cells as well as the plugs (that is why it is good to have drawings of the plugs and schematics of the cell - LBC computer connections, with pin numbers.)
Success!
Cor.


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## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Cor said:


> Just be aware that a switched sense wire does not *disable* the BMS, it will *smoke* the BMS. (as in: popping craters in the sense chips)
> With the correct service manual (2011 and 2012 have all white connectors and are *not* compatible with the 2013+ BMS which has colored connectors. Even though the plugs fit, the pins are in different places = smoke guaranteed!) you should be able to figure all wires out by counting along the cells as well as the plugs (that is why it is good to have drawings of the plugs and schematics of the cell - LBC computer connections, with pin numbers.)
> Success!
> Cor.


10-4. Thank you again!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

HI All.

PDF attached of the leaf BMS pinouts.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

skooler said:


> HI All.
> PDF attached of the leaf BMS pinouts.


Yes, the actual sense wire pinouts on the BMS appear to be the same between the old and new BMS (the other two plugs on the short side of the BMS, carrying the temp sensor connections (8 pin plug) and the other plug with the CAN communication and control signals are *not* compatible.

Also not compatible is the larger one of the two plugs to the two front packs that connects to the wiring loom to the BMS.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

ANybody planning to convert a car using a Leaf drivetrain?
I have a 2012 Leaf in great shape and someone local wants to buy the
battery and Airco off it, so then I would be left with a complete car, drivetrain, suspension and all - in case you are planning to convert, get in touch and see if we can work out a deal!


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## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Cor said:


> skooler said:
> 
> 
> > HI All.
> ...


So, I've tested and retested, the diagram has allowed me to find the correct wires to the BMS. This is my preliminary position for packs and relays.... I hope this meets with your approval. ;-)


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## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Shot number two. ....


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Cor said:


> ANybody planning to convert a car using a Leaf drivetrain?
> I have a 2012 Leaf in great shape and someone local wants to buy the
> battery and Airco off it, so then I would be left with a complete car, drivetrain, suspension and all - in case you are planning to convert, get in touch and see if we can work out a deal!


Hi Cor
Stick your location on your control panel - its very helpful


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Duncan said:


> Hi Cor
> Stick your location on your control panel - its very helpful


Thanks for the reminder, Duncan.
I added it: Silicon Valley, California.
Cor.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Dudeguy said:


> So, I've tested and retested, the diagram has allowed me to find the correct wires to the BMS. This is my preliminary position for packs and relays.... I hope this meets with your approval. ;-)


That looks pretty.
I plan to do the same (pack the two "saddle" packs into a single halfpack) but I will likely re-use the wiring of the saddle packs without cutting it, just wrapping excess wire lengths with electrical tape, the same I did with the 2 Leafs packs in my current EV truck.
I see you have newish (Gen 2) modules, they look the same as the 2015 and 2016 warranty replacement modules I have seen and quite different than the 2011 modules.
Anyhow - from looking at the photo it is not clear if the wiring is correct.
What does the BMS (LBC) tell when you plug it in?
Note that it is relatively simple to get a loose pack + BMS talking to LeafSpy, that is why LeafSpy has a "Model Year" selection of "BMS only".
Then take an ELM327, feed it 12V on the OBD port and also the BMS on the pins for battery+ and for Ignition and connect the two CAN bus lines from ELM327 to BMS and you are talking...


----------



## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Cor said:


> That looks pretty.
> I plan to do the same (pack the two "saddle" packs into a single halfpack) but I will likely re-use the wiring of the saddle packs without cutting it, just wrapping excess wire lengths with electrical tape, the same I did with the 2 Leafs packs in my current EV truck.
> I see you have newish (Gen 2) modules, they look the same as the 2015 and 2016 warranty replacement modules I have seen and quite different than the 2011 modules.
> Anyhow - from looking at the photo it is not clear if the wiring is correct.
> ...


I haven't plugged it all back in yet. I bought the second orange bus bar tray from Nissan and because I wanted it to look super symmetrical, I needed to shorten the wires.... I would have been better served pulling the pins out of the original connectors in the LB15 and LB16 and plugging in the appropriate pins from LB13 and LB14 harness. It would have been cleaner and less soldering. The BMS won't care because it will see the same thing it has always seen. I don't have leafspy or any special scanners or readers. Seat of the pants folks!!!!

James


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

Cor said:


> Note that it is relatively simple to get a loose pack + BMS talking to LeafSpy, that is why LeafSpy has a "Model Year" selection of "BMS only".
> Then take an ELM327, feed it 12V on the OBD port and also the BMS on the pins for battery+ and for Ignition and connect the two CAN bus lines from ELM327 to BMS and you are talking...



Cor,

This is great info! This allows full BMS functionality? What about limiting the pack through the VCM? No need for this? 

With the tremendous increase I have seen lately in people utilizing Leaf pack/BMS. This would make a great stick/wiki post if someone took the time to do a write up!


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

Dudeguy said:


> I don't have leafspy or any special scanners or readers. Seat of the pants folks!!!!James


Hi James,
You are aware that LeafSpy is a free Android app?
You only need to buy (for a modest price) the iPhone or the Pro version,
in case you want to be able to clear DTCs in your Leaf.
But the free app will happily display your battery statistics (voltage of each cell, current, SoC and so on) by interrogating the BMS.


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## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

D a n n y^ said:


> Cor,
> This is great info! This allows full BMS functionality? What about limiting the pack through the VCM? No need for this?


Hi Danny,
The BMS cannot limit anything, it only measures voltage and current and it will balance the cells 24/7 as long as it receives +12V on pin 5 (BAT) of the round connector, which is wired to pin 12 of the LB11 connector.
Also, all 96 pairs of cells need to be plugged in obviously.
The BMS will only communicate when there is 12V on either IGN (pin 4 round connector, pin 6 or 7 of LB11, for old/new BMS) or CHG IGN (Charging) which is located on pin 21 or 31 (old/new battery type), pin 5 of LB11.
If you want to protect the pack from over/under charge, it is not the BMS (LBC) you are looking at but either the VCM of the Leaf which will throttle current or in case the BMS is used outside the Leaf (as I have in my 1994 US Electricar truck) the controller of that vehicle and/or the operator need to keep an eye on the signals from the BMS. The BMS just reports what it sees how the pack is doing, it has no option to protect the pack because even the contactors that isolate the pack are controlled from outside the battery shell, that is why the 12V control signals for the contactor coils are on the round connector and not connected to the BMS. So the BMS can literally do nothing itself, just report what it sees and keep the cells balanced. External to the pack is the protection for slowing down and stopping when the battery is reported to be empty as well as control of the charging, again based on the BMS reports of how full and hot or cold the cells are.
Hope this clarifies.
Cor.


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## Dudeguy (May 1, 2017)

Cor said:


> Dudeguy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have leafspy or any special scanners or readers. Seat of the pants folks!!!!James
> ...


Nothing against leafspy. I'm just not far enough in the project. I've got a few more days of mock up on the battery box before I'll burn metal. Then I'll be ready to tear down the jeep. I have side work on Sprinter vans and doing some traveling this summer so progress has slowed.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

OK folks, As the OP wanted any Leaf related info, here goes. Some of you may know that I am putting a complete (as much as possible) Leaf system in my truck. I am still gathering suspension components and making a running subframe that will house the independent suspension and leaf motor so at the moment, I have no questions there.

As I am using a second leaf motor (most probably) as a generator to charge the batteries if I am away from power (which is often), I need to mate the RPM to the existing diesel ICE. I know, many of you are going to barf at the idea of a PHEV but it is necessary for me at this time.

Regardless, the ICE will run at roughly 1800-2000rpm and I would like to get 50kw or so into the batteries (Ideal conditions). First, I am only familiar with L2 charging so maybe 10kw input max. Can I put 50kw into the batteries directly (making a second set of contacts on the main bussbar) or is there a better way to do this? Also, I am left with the choice of using the gear reduction (ICE RPM may be too high for the motor) or not using it and I will get a reduced power output. 

Any thoughts? I have looked for a proper power curve for the Leaf motor but find anything but that.

Mike


----------



## Cor (Sep 17, 2013)

CanadaLT28 said:


> I would like to get 50kw or so into the batteries (Ideal conditions). First, I am only familiar with L2 charging so maybe 10kw input max.


Hi Mike,
If you start with a Leaf that has CHAdeMO then it already should have the high power wires from the second front inlet, through an extra pair of contactors to the main bus bar.
CHAdeMO charges DC directly into the pack at approx 390V and I have seen up to 110 Amps. CHAdeMO typically is 50kW max (500V 100A).
At these power levels you *have to* take the BMS reporting on each of the 96 cell voltages and throttle back the current as the cell(s) are hitting their approx 4.1V max charge voltage.
The older the pack, the sooner it will throttle back is my experience, I have seen the max current only when below ~40% State of Charge on my Leaf as reported by LeafSpy.
If you don't throttle then the Leaf pack will not live long and you may even cause an early demise of your vehicle (fire or fault in the battery).

To get high power DC charging to work without doing the full CHAdeMO (which might have its advantages, as with CHAdeMO you can charge at any L3 station, even if your vehicle does not look like a Leaf, I have a Dodge truck with a Leaf CHAdeMO port....) all you need to open the path to the battery is to either tell the vehicle to turn on or send the 3 contactor coil signals to the battery yourself: first close the pre-charge and the negative side contactors, wait a few seconds for capacitors to charge up, verify that voltage is above 300V or so then close the positive side contactor and drop the pre-charge. That puts power on the main bus bar in the inverter. I have never opened the CHAdeMO circuit, but I expect two more contactors and some voltage and current monitoring.

The alternative way is to put the vehicle in a secure place with parking brake/wheel chocks engaged and then lift and drive a wheel that is connected to the electric motor with external force, a similar setup as you would for a primitive PTO or Dyno where an ICE will deliver power by rotating the wheel and the Leaf components are in "Drive" mode so that regenerative braking can be used to feed power back. Note that the Leaf is a bit weak in regen braking. I am not sure if it can do more than about 10kW, definitely not 50kW. But it can be a very simple setup where the Leaf protects itself and you only need the mechanical hookup.

I cannot help with the question about the power curve of the motor.
Cor.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Cor said:


> Hi Mike,
> If you start with a Leaf that has CHAdeMO then it already should have the high power wires from the second front inlet, through an extra pair of contactors to the main bus bar.
> CHAdeMO charges DC directly into the pack at approx 390V and I have seen up to 110 Amps. CHAdeMO typically is 50kW max (500V 100A).
> At these power levels you *have to* take the BMS reporting on each of the 96 cell voltages and throttle back the current as the cell(s) are hitting their approx 4.1V max charge voltage.
> ...


The answers are great so far. I was concerned a bit about getting regen working but it is not the most important thing for me. Most important is to be able to charge up to perhaps 390V and limit it there while driving. I have two leaf motors, one for propulsion and one for charging. I just wasn't sure how I could do both at the same time.


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## Mathrips (Nov 7, 2017)

I just found this forum this eve. Thanks to everyone for the huge amount of great info here. I will try not to plague you with too many questions but I do have a few. My plan is a VW Karmann Ghia which I just bought, sans motor. I am not convinced yet as to which Donor car would be my best fit. A 40 mile range would be fine though more works too. I am curious what folks are doing for instrumentation. Graft in the Leaf's two displays? Also, those who have dissected their batteries, what thickness metal are you making new containers out of in case of fire, or is that not a big concern? Finally, from what info I can find, the Leaf does not cool or heat the battery. Would a temp controlled battery from a different vehicle be a better choice?


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=25027&start=10

You could just re-use the Nissan stock motor and controller 

Just takes a small canbus device


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

If you want DIY car with REX!

Weber transaxle dissassembly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqM3YXEf1js

Well since nobody is saying this...
If you got inverter and you got transaxle, batteries aside... you could use motor B to drive the wheels and just connect a Briggs&Stratton lawnmower engine to motor/generator A. Of course you would use flex coupling to dampen vibration. You simply leave clutch B off and only operate clutch A. Or weld it for that matter.... 

So when you run out of battery you start B&S motor and apply clutch A to bring say 8 - 10kW to inverter. 
Inverter could be run off of two Lebowski brains. One only in regen mode. 
Second driving motor B up to 70mph. TomDB sucessfuly operates BLDC motor using one Lebowski brain board.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...er-179922.html

No CAN bus needed that way and only You in control of operating B&S stinker .


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Mathrips said:


> I just found this forum this eve. Thanks to everyone for the huge amount of great info here. I will try not to plague you with too many questions but I do have a few.


Welcome to the forum 



Mathrips said:


> from what info I can find, the Leaf does not cool or heat the battery. Would a temp controlled battery from a different vehicle be a better choice?


The Leaf battery is an ideal candidate for conversions and is thoroughly proven in the OEM car. In my experience the Leaf rarely has a problem with high temperatures even when driven long distance and rapid charged many times. If you live in a zone liable to freezing then battery heaters might be useful although here in the UK we never had a problem if we slow charged overnight.

Two vehicles that will use the Leaf modules include the VW Beetle (here) and the Solectria E10 (here).

Damien also used the Battery Modules in his 840CI for a year or more (here)


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Welcome to the forum
> 
> The Leaf battery is an ideal candidate for conversions and is thoroughly proven in the OEM car. In my experience the Leaf rarely has a problem with high temperatures even when driven long distance and rapid charged many times. If you live in a zone liable to freezing then battery heaters might be useful although here in the UK we never had a problem if we slow charged overnight.
> 
> ...


I believe the only thing I am missing is the battery pack. I haven't found one at a good enough price yet and I keep hoping the 30+kw pack will show up.

I find myself wishing someone other than Tesla would make 70-100kw packs and wonder why all the other companies use the flat form lithium packs that appear to have a lesser power density than the cylindrical type. Is it only temp control?

Will the 2013 motor and control work with a later battery pack?


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

CanadaLT28 said:


> Will the 2013 motor and control work with a later battery pack?


Many components in the Leaf are encoded so that they only work with one another. If you want to use the OEM parts from different cars then you probably need access to the Nissan diagnostic and programming tool "Consult III" to reprogram the parts. Mike Skooler (here) is the expert 

If I was reusing Leaf parts today I'd probably use Wolfs Battery System and the Johannes Motor Controller because they will be supportable going forward. Obviously it would also be worth investigating the CAN based controller solutions rmay635703 referenced if they are open source 



rmay635703 said:


> http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=25027&start=10
> 
> You could just re-use the Nissan stock motor and controller
> 
> Just takes a small canbus device


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Many components in the Leaf are encoded so that they only work with one another. If you want to use the OEM parts from different cars then you probably need access to the Nissan diagnostic and programming tool "Consult III" to reprogram the parts. Mike Skooler (here) is the expert
> 
> If I was reusing Leaf parts today I'd probably use Wolfs Battery System and the Johannes Motor Controller because they will be supportable going forward. Obviously it would also be worth investigating the CAN based controller solutions rmay635703 referenced if they are open source


So far everything I have is from the Leaf and I only wanted to know if the later battery packs could be used with the earlier BMS. I am looking a Wolfs BMS as a substitute for the massve amount of wiring and redundancy in the OEM package. I would like to use the pedals and repackage the gauges to look 1980s VW OEM but anything else is up for discussion.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

CanadaLT28 said:


> So far everything I have is from the Leaf and I only wanted to know if the later battery packs could be used with the earlier BMS.


iirc the battery chemistry changed and even if the BMS hardware is the same I doubt the firmware is. Given Nissan never offered an upgrade path I suspect your best way forward is to see whether Wolf will support the later modules with his reworked BMS


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Mathrips said:


> Finally, from what info I can find, the Leaf does not cool or heat the battery.


True, while current batteries from other manufacturers have active thermal management including forced circulation of liquid coolant, a Leaf (of any vintage including the 2017 update) does not have liquid cooling... and I don't think it has any forced cooling or heating at all. Maybe it has a fan (blowing air through the pack case) in the stock implementation?



Mathrips said:


> Would a temp controlled battery from a different vehicle be a better choice?


More cooling capacity is required for very high charge rates, but that isn't a concern unless you want to use a very fast charger. Very high or low ambient conditions will also limit performance, without a system to actively manage heat. The cost of active thermal management is complexity (of the pump, radiator, plumbing, and control system); it seems that for most DIY builders, excessive complexity is already a challenge.


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

Has anyone has success de-pinning Nissan BMS wiring? I fiddled with the LB13 plug last night for a bit attempting to release the wires through the rear. I couldn't figure it out and was afraid to break it. 

Interested in doing this so that I can transfer the longer cables from a donor connector in order better suit the needs of my modified battery pack.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

Yup. 

Instructions here:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181297



D a n n y^ said:


> Has anyone has success de-pinning Nissan BMS wiring? I fiddled with the LB13 plug last night for a bit attempting to release the wires through the rear. I couldn't figure it out and was afraid to break it.
> 
> Interested in doing this so that I can transfer the longer cables from a donor connector in order better suit the needs of my modified battery pack.
> 
> ...


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

WolfTronix said:


> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Now I remember you posting this awhile back! I should have know you would have the answer. 
That double lock is what got me.
Thanks again!


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

No Problem!

I could not figure it out either...
But when I did, I made sure that it was posted on here to help others out. 



D a n n y^ said:


> Now I remember you posting this awhile back! I should have know you would have the answer.
> That double lock is what got me.
> Thanks again!


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Really? The Leaf, including the 2017 version, permits 50 kW DC fast charging and manages to do that without any active cell cooling? With really large-format rectangular cells? That's incredible if true...

How do they handle heating in winter? They can't let the cells fall to -20 C without the electrolyte becoming too viscous to accept a charge, right?


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Moltenmetal said:


> Really? The Leaf, including the 2017 version, permits 50 kW DC fast charging and manages to do that without any active cell cooling? With really large-format rectangular cells? That's incredible if true...


The Leaf battery is completely sealed and tucked into the bottom of the car, it has no active cooling.

Passive cooling works very well, the longest continuous road trip in a Leaf was 1652 miles in ~28 hours, with 33 rapid charge sessions (see here). 



Moltenmetal said:


> How do they handle heating in winter?


electric battery heaters (PTC pads) are an optional extra for extreme climates (see top right photo). In the UK I never used battery heating and relied on overnight charging to keep the battery warm.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

I am planning on using the battery heaters in my truck.
We just spent the last few weeks around way below 0F (-18C).

But they are designed for 360V... and I am running at 150V.

So I am planning on building a boost converter that will fit in the heater relay box.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> electric battery heaters (PTC pads) are an optional extra for extreme climates (see top right photo). In the UK I never used battery heating and relied on overnight charging to keep the battery warm.


Yes, the Leaf can have a heated battery pack - you can plainly see it as an option in the service manuals. Unfortunately, I've got a Leaf from southern California and I'm sure it doesn't have them. It has gotten down to -18F / -28C here this winter. I wouldn't have considered southern Michigan to be an extreme climate but I suppose it does get rather chilly at times. I don't think it's a very safe idea to either charge or discharge a lithium pack at -28C. At the least, charging is a bad idea somewhere under -5C. At a certain point most lithium chemistries will begin to plate the cells rather than charge properly. I don't know where exactly that point is for Leaf cells and I'd rather not accidentally find out.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

CKidder said:


> I don't know where exactly that point is for Leaf cells and I'd rather not accidentally find out.


It's in the manual:

When the temperature decreases [approximately −20°C (−4°F)] extremely in the battery pack, the Li-ion battery
heater control system automatically activates the Li-ion battery heater to warm the inside of the battery
pack for protecting Li-ion battery from freezing and preventing the decline in battery output. In addition, when
the temperature in the battery pack is restored [approximately −10°C (14°F)], the Li-ion battery heater stops.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

As an interesting side note...

When I was testing the modified Leaf BMS I/O (I replaced the micro with my own), I could not get the heater relay to switch on and off, nor could I detect the state of it.

Turns out that the BMS unit I was using, (from eBay, not from my battery), came from a pack that did not have the heater option.

And thus, Nissan did not populate the MOSFETs to turn on the heater relay, or any of the relay state sense components. 
Cause, you know, got to save those penny parts. 


So if you want to install the battery heaters in your pack, you will also need to upgrade the BMS too.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Moltenmetal said:


> Really? The Leaf, including the 2017 version, permits 50 kW DC fast charging and manages to do that without any active cell cooling? With really large-format rectangular cells? That's incredible if true...


50 kW charging is a heating challenge, but presumably somewhat comparable to 80 kW motor operation. Right? 

The success of Nissan's approach to battery cooling and the conservative rating of the Leaf's motor might be related. Instead of building the pack and motor cooling to handle drag races, Nissan limits the motor to 80 kW (even in brief bursts); meanwhile, Tesla puts a lot of effort into finding how hard they can push the battery for a few seconds at a time... and needs a liquid cooling system to deliver the performance (both in acceleration and in "Supercharging") that they have chosen.

GM uses large-format pouch cells in their cars, too, and runs higher (motor, not charging) power than a Leaf... but uses liquid cooling to do it.

I don't think Tesla's little cells would help cooling so much if they were packed in sealed box; the small size and metal cases provide more heat transfer capacity for cooling with circulating coolant. The cell format and the cooling approach seem related.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

CKidder said:


> It has gotten down to -18F / -28C here this winter.


We rarely get below freezing in this part of the UK which is why we can survive without battery heating in the Leaf. However, I understand the Tesla cells are less tolerant of low temperatures and I will include the fluid battery heater in my conversion


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

WolfTronix said:


> It's in the manual:
> 
> When the temperature decreases [approximately −20°C (−4°F)] extremely in the battery pack, the Li-ion battery
> heater control system automatically activates the Li-ion battery heater to warm the inside of the battery
> ...


Wow, thanks for the info. That's a lot lower than I thought. That would seem to suggest that the battery will be fine both charging and discharging so long as you don't let it go under -10C. That's good to know, hopefully I'll remember that number for the future.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Interesting development re Model 3 battery heating;

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=946778#post946778


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Interesting development re Model 3 battery heating;
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=946778#post946778


It appears that there are two interesting features of the Model 3 battery heating scheme (which appears to be relatively ineffective):

the HVAC system is used as a heat pump in the S/X, but not in the 3
the heater which is used in the 3 is the drive motor, rather than a separate resistive element.
(I just read the article and comments; ten minutes of some guy whining about the cold wasn't worth watching, just to see if he had some additional information)

Using the motor's windings essentially as a resistor is kind of clever; it reminds me of an animal shivering to generate heat in muscles without doing any actual work.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

The difference between 50 kW DC recharging and 80 kW motor operation is that the problem isn't temperature so much as the combination of high voltage and high temperature...

It does seem likely that they limit power to protect the pack, but don't they also make the inverter cheaper by doing so?

It's hard to heat something which is designed to self-cool...

I'm guessing the reason Tesla is sticking with the small cylindrical cells with active cooling is that a) it works b) they love and sell performance that Nissan doesn't seem to care about so much and c) their Li-NCA chemistry becomes unstable (starts to go auto-thermal) at a much lower temperature than Li-NCM does.

Fascinating, guys- since I built my conversion, my interest in the OEM vehicles remains strong but despite how much is written about the new EVs- it's voluminous- finding information that is detailed enough to make it useful to me is challenging. I come across it here most often- I hate the Endless Sphere interface so much that I stay away from there despite the cool stuff going on there sometimes.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Moltenmetal said:


> It does seem likely that they limit power to protect the pack, but don't they also make the inverter cheaper by doing so?


Good point... there are several links in the chain, and it's not always obvious which one is the controlling factor. I have no idea what the inverter costs an EV manufacturer, but it must be significant.

Although it's probably a very minor point, the front-wheel-drive layout of the Leaf (driven by use of chassis components in production for other models) is not well-suited to very high power (especially with the rear weight bias caused by the battery), so the Leaf is not the platform in which to push EV performance. Tesla's rear-drive or all-wheel-drive layout is more suitable.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

brian_ said:


> It appears that there are two interesting features of the Model 3 battery heating scheme (which appears to be relatively ineffective):
> 
> the HVAC system is used as a heat pump in the S/X, but not in the 3
> the heater which is used in the 3 is the drive motor, rather than a separate resistive element.
> (I just read the article and comments; ten minutes of some guy whining about the cold wasn't worth watching, just to see if he had some additional information)


Not sure if you're aware that the Model S/X also has another 7kW (iirc) heat source over and above the HVAC?

** apologies for the rotated images... I'm tired editing photos for DIY Electric, they work fine on forums with more modern software


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

I would have guessed that it is easier to use the AC induction motor in the 'S' as as a heater... 
Since you can PWM current through the stator, and not have a rotating magnetic field to drag the rotor around.

In the '3' the rotor magnets will want to align to the stator coil that is passing current, causing motion.

Unless, they only PWM current through the one stator coil that is lined up with a rotor magnet...

Or, I guess they could 3 phase PWM all the stator coils so fast that the rotor can't follow... but I would think this would become audible. 


I am assuming that the vehicle is stationary and trying to heat the battery to keep it from freezing.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Not sure if you're aware that the Model S/X also has another 7kW (iirc) heat source over and above the HVAC?


I assumed that it did, but didn't check - thanks for the details. That's the "separate resistive element" which I listed as missing from the Model 3.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

WolfTronix said:


> I am assuming that the vehicle is stationary and trying to heat the battery to keep it from freezing.


Yes, that's at least one scenario... but likely heating the battery in preparation for heating or driving, rather than just parked.



WolfTronix said:


> I would have guessed that it is easier to use the AC induction motor in the 'S' as as a heater...
> Since you can PWM current through the stator, and not have a rotating magnetic field to drag the rotor around.
> 
> In the '3' the rotor magnets will want to align to the stator coil that is passing current, causing motion.
> ...


How about driving all three sets of windings in-phase, instead of in the normal phase relationship? I'm sure the actual solution will come out at some point... even if someone has to put scope leads on the inverter-to-motor connection to observe it.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

brian_ said:


> How about driving all three sets of windings in-phase, instead of in the normal phase relationship? I'm sure the actual solution will come out at some point... even if someone has to put scope leads on the inverter-to-motor connection to observe it.


That would cause shoot through and dead short the battery pack across the IGBTs / MOSFETs (not sure which they use)... 

They would be using the winding of the stator as resistive elements (since the motor is the heater, not the controller).


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

brian_ said:


> YHow about driving all three sets of windings in-phase, instead of in the normal phase relationship?


I walked away, then realized that this would only be possible with star wiring, and of course the motor will be delta wired.



WolfTronix said:


> That would cause shoot through and dead short the battery pack across the IGBTs / MOSFETs (not sure which they use)...


Possible options will certainly depend on inverter design.



WolfTronix said:


> They would be using the winding of the stator as resistive elements (since the motor is the heater, not the controller).


Yes, that's the idea. The challenge is, of course, passing current through stator windings without causing net motor torque. The car could instead just lock the wheel brakes on, but I would want a bunch of lawyers to check out that plan before putting it in the hands of the public... 

They could, of course, switch between forward and reverse at high frequency - truly the EV equivalent of shivering - but that would presumably be annoying to any occupant and possibly cause vibration-related problems for various components.


Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about using Leaf components, which don't include any circulating coolant and thus don't include any form of fluid heater... heat pump, dedicated resistor, or motor-based.


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

WolfTronix said:


> As an interesting side note...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 how do you intend to get around this? Can you run all of the heaters off of a single BMS or so you need to get a. new BMS and put your chip in it?

I'm in San Diego, CA so I do not require the heater it my pack, but it came equipped with one. I would trade my BMS with yours, but I fear that it may be problematic because I have transferred the entire Leaf Harness into my conversion. If I remember correctly the BMS and other components are synced, complicating the introduction of a foreign BMS.


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## WolfTronix (Feb 8, 2016)

D a n n y^ said:


> how do you intend to get around this?


I have the original BMS units from both of my battery packs, they are both the heated versions. So they have the needed MOSFETs in them.

However, Since I will replace the logic board (economizer) in the Heater Relay, with my own board anyway (to support the boost converter)...

I might just make it CAN controlled.

I need 2 of them, one for the front battery box and one for the rear battery box.


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

Hi guys. 

Any conclusions yet with respect to a complete transplant?

Cause if it is possible without mods than it would be great for a conversion in some EU countries
where it takes more than a visual inspection and a firm handshake to get the papers for a road legal EV.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

We have done it several times now. It is quite a complex way of doing a conversion and doesnt give much flexibility but results are very good.

https://twitter.com/Indra_rt/status/976508071718596608?s=19


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

skooler said:


> We have done it several times now. It is quite a complex way of doing a conversion and doesnt give much flexibility but results are very good.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Indra_rt/status/976508071718596608?s=19
> 
> ...




Beautiful skooler what are you using for an adapter plate? I've taken a break from the project due to the frustrations of trying to find a reasonable solution for this.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Made our own. Its simply 5 pieces of 15mm laser cut aluminium.









Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

skooler said:


> Made our own...


Thanks for the illustration  - although Leaf battery use is getting common and Leaf motor applications are often discussed, I had not seen any before in this forum.

It is remarkable how much that package looks like a short inline-cylinder engine, missing the manifolds. Of course the same is true in the Leaf (an EV version of the Versa), but it's even more apparent in this traditional orientation.


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

skooler said:


> We have done it several times now.


That's great. So no modifications whatsoever to the original Leaf electrical systems. As in the picture of the motor in the front engine bay. 

Some countries have very strict regulations and any modification to the electric systems, for instance a control board swap, 
means that the car has to go through the full admission procedure of which the cost can easily exceed €20.000. 
Without mods, it is accepted as an already admitted system and the cost for the procedure is acceptable, €1000 to €2000.

A custom made coupler plate is not an issue if it has been made professionally and the paperwork is there to prove it. 

But how about the battery pack? That's huge and not as straight forward to transplant as a inverter/motor combo.

BTW, very impressive workshop.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

brian_ said:


> although Leaf battery use is getting common and Leaf motor applications are often discussed, I had not seen any before in this forum.


Important to remember that the vast majority of EV build activity is not reported on this forum


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Tony Bogs said:


> That's great. So no modifications whatsoever to the original Leaf electrical systems. As in the picture of the motor in the front engine bay.


Mike has listed the components required for a minimum system (here) which afaik is still up to date. Personally I found working with Leaf components simple and well documented, but given the choice I much prefer open source because it's possible to support and modify the hardware indefinitely


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

This guy demonstrates a transplant to a peg board. Who knew it could be this easy?

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/n...owled-displayed-pegboard-video-130004857.html

The cable between the battery pack and the motor seems a bit short, but I don't think that replacing it with a 1 meter longer cable with the same or better specs will be an issue for approval. 
How critical is such a longer cable? Might be 0.5 uH extra. May not seem much, but at 200A?

P.S.
Thanks for the link:


> Mike has listed the components required for a minimum system (here)


It lists re-assembly of the pack. That's out of the question. Won't comply with the admission regulations for a simplified procedure.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Tony Bogs said:


> It lists re-assembly of the pack. That's out of the question. Won't comply with the admission regulations for a simplified procedure.


As you stated earlier that depends on where you are... in the UK for example this is not a problem today so long as we meet the relevant build standards. See discussion in the following threads;

UK IVA October 2016 update now includes EV

Getting your build Street Legal in the EU


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

skooler said:


> Made our own. Its simply 5 pieces of 15mm laser cut aluminium.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good! What are your components, in addition to the laser cut plates, to adapt to the gearbox? Automatic or manual ? If manual, did you retain the clutch? Pictures would be great.


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

Definitely. The Leaf motor/inverter assembly is a nice compact unit that will fit almost any engine bay. And more pictures of dash mods etc. please.

I'd like to convert a Renault Espace or some sort of MPV/van that can be fitted with a lift for a wheelchair. 

Taking a route via another EU country to get a street legal car is too much trouble for me, so it looks like I'll be the owner of a Leaf this year or next year.

And I definitely need the steering wheel on the right side of the car.


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## Tony Bogs (Apr 12, 2014)

And news is that I'll be able to buy a refabricated pack for around US$2850 in the not too distant future when too many bars are missing on the screen of my donor car.

https://insideevs.com/nissan-introd...es-for-older-leaf-in-japan-from-new-4r-plant/


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## CitroCees (Oct 2, 2010)

Hi all!

I'm a Dutchman in NZ converting a French car with Japanese parts .
I've removed the battery and motor stack from a 2014 Japanese domestic Leaf wreck as well as the harnesses from the motor area and the one that runs behind the dash. However, connector B24 from the battery, the round one that carries the CAN signals, seems to be part of a third harness, the body harness. This extends all the way to the back and in the ceiling and under the car . 

I'm sure I need only part of that harness. Does anyone have that information? Alternatively, where can I find detailed wiring diagrams? I have downloaded the Factory Service Manuals from nicoclub, but they never describe and lay out the harnesses. Besides for my current problem, this level of detail will come in handy when I start reducing the harnesses to the minimum set of wires required.

Cheers,
Cees.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

jsimonkeller said:


> 1. Would I be ahead of the game on the cost of sourcing all of this same stuff part by part, albeit with different motors (i.e. Curtis) and different batteries?


No doubt that OEM parts are much cheaper than 'old school' bespoke EV parts and they usually offer much better performance. The challenge however is to fit the OEM drivetrain into your vehicle and that's where 'old school' solutions are still used on occasion.

Note that your $12000 donor cars are very expensive. We typically pay $3500 in Europe for 2014 Leafs that have been written off but usually still drivable. It might make more sense to sell your Leaf's and buy a wreck for your project.



jsimonkeller said:


> 4. Once everything is relocated, part by part, into my donor car, has anyone shown that the systems all work as they did before, since this would be NISSAN's proprietary controller and software.


Indra have built several vehicles using a subset of the Leaf's systems. Lookup posts by Mike Skooler (here) in this thread


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## Meni Menindorf (Mar 17, 2018)

So happy to have found this thread! 

I just won a salvage auction for a 2014 Leaf, and I'm a bit intimidated. 

Can you please recommend a good diagnostic wifi scanner that works with the Leaf? 

In your first video, you mention a scanner paired with LeafSpy being a big help, but most of the OBDII scanners I'm seeing on Amazon appear to be incompatible with the Leaf. The Leaf I just won is going to need some diagnostic work right away to get it moving. I believe there's a crash sensor or something that is keeping it from going into gear. All damage is in the rear, but I will need to figure out what sensors are causing the problem~ Any recommendations for resources on Leaf sensor locations? 

I'm going to be doing a cut-away style conversion, losing the back half of the Leaf and welding it onto the front of another vehicle with all drive-train and driver cabin of the Leaf completely intact. I have a lot of questions surrounding the removal of this back-half -- causing sensors to trip, etc. For example, once the back breaks are removed will the ABS send a warning to the computer system. . . ? (I have a lot to learn!) How can I go about this cut-away to trick the Leaf into continuing to function normally, while it's missing it's rear-end  

Many thanks for sharing all of this wonderful information! Looking forward to reading through this thread more slowly ~

~Meni


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

You don't need to do anything to get the Regen. It should work. VCU will automatically take care of the Regen. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

jsimonkeller said:


> Thanks 67BGTEV.
> 
> So, just to be clear, if I use the Nissan Leaf pedal assembly with the stroke sensor and master cylinder like the attached photo, the system, once powered, should work without the NISSAN Leaf ECU? I plan to use the TESLA motor with the Zero EV controller and did not know if those will control regen braking regardless of the braking system.
> 
> ...


I've not had any experience with your combination of setup. 
As long as you are confident that your motor-controller setup works, you should be able to hook up the Leaf pedal and program your controller. 

It looks like a complex setup for me that you are embarking on. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

skooler said:


> Sorry but there a quite a few inaccuracies in this.
> 
> the leaf system is far simpler than you make out. It is very simple - plug and play with the bare minimum components. yes you get a few errors but they do not affect the drive of the car.
> 
> ...


Mike,

Many thanks for sharing this information. I finally have everything in the vehicle & this allowed me to delete some additional components that were not needed & were causing problems. 

Would you be willing to explain a bit further regarding the gear selector switch? This is one of the components that I am currently struggling with. Shifter is in Park and will not go into Neutral, Drive or Reverse. 

Additionally, one of the DTC's that I am having trouble clearing is for a HV Interlock. Perhaps I am missing one? Traction battery, HVAC, Service Plug & Heater box plugs are all installed. I assume shorting the interlock wires on each plug would work aswell. 

If you happen to have a moment to share I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

D a n n y^ said:


> Would you be willing to explain a bit further regarding the gear selector switch? This is one of the components that I am currently struggling with. Shifter is in Park and will not go into Neutral, Drive or Reverse.


This is just a guess based on automotive industry practice, rather than any knowledge specific to the Leaf, but since the "unintended acceleration" scandal of the 1980's it is normal interlock an automatic transmission shifter to the brake pedal. It seems possible - even likely - that you are tripping over that interlock.

This means that unless you are firmly pressing the brake pedal, the shifter can't be moved out of Park; this keeps idiots from shifting into Reverse or Drive while applying power (pressing the accelerator), and subsequently ramming walls (and other cars, and people... usually their own kids). It would be as applicable to an EV as it is to an engined-driven vehicle with a conventional automatic transmission. This is in automatic transmission vehicles, but would rationally apply to an EV with a mechanical parking feature in the transaxle... which includes the Leaf:


> PARKING MECHANISM
> • The parking mechanism consists of the manual shaft, manual plate, detent spring, parking rod, parking pawl and parking gear, and it is locked/unlocked by the operation of the parking actuator.
> • If the parking actuator is operated by the signal from the electric shift control module, the manual shaft and manual plate that is mechanically connected to the parking actuator rotates sliding the parking rod. The sliding parking rod pushes up the parking pawl, which engages with the parking gear locking the parking mechanism.


Sure enough, from the 2017 Leaf owners manual:


> The shift lever of this vehicle is designed so that the foot brake pedal must be depressed before shifting from the P (Park) position to any driving position while the power switch is in the ON position.
> 
> The shift lever cannot be moved out of the P (Park) position and into any of the other positions if the power switch is placed in the LOCK, OFF or ACC position or if the key is removed.


There are various ways to implement this, but it seems likely that there is either a hard-wired connection of brake pedal switch to the shifter, or a bus message from a component that is aware of brake application to the shifter. I note that skooler's list of retained components includes "Brake pedal switches". And of course the shifter also needs to be aware of the power switch mode (hardwired or by bus messages).

To enable emergency movement of a disabled vehicle, there is normally a reasonably accessible (without tools) feature which overrides this interlock and allows the shifter to be moved. In the Leaf, again from the owner's manual:


> If your vehicle cannot be moved because the vehicle cannot to be shifted to the N (Neutral) position, please refer to the LEAF Roadside Assistance Guide which is located at www.NISSANUSA.com.


Even if you read that guide and get the shifter to move, you still need to overcome the problem that it may only go to "Neutral" (there is no neutral in the Leaf, so this means release the parking feature), and not to Drive as you need. Also, this is a procedure involving the brake pedal and door switches - not a physical release as is common with automatic transmissions - so it will depend on even more working network communications that normal operation. I suspect that you just need to convince your partial Leaf that you are pushing its brake pedal.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

do you get a red cog on the display? the park lock needs to be locked on power up - easiest to leave it in the gearbox but you can hold it with a breaker bar and torx socket.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

oh, and you'll have to remove 12v between tries if you get it wrong.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## D a n n y^ (Aug 4, 2015)

skooler said:


> do you get a red cog on the display? the park lock needs to be locked on power up - easiest to leave it in the gearbox but you can hold it with a breaker bar and torx socket.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk




I do get the cog. Thank you for that tip! I will try that first thing tomorrow. I watched a YouTube video of you with a breaker bar and I wondered what s going on.

Also, I ran out all of my HV interlocks and found an open on the service plug end. I figured out that one of the service plug pins was bent and not making contact with the interlock plug on the mount. That DTC is clear and I can now see the green car "ready light flash during start up. Contactors click, and then unfortunately click off again. Hopefully the Park sensor fixes this!

Thanks for the info Mike!


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## Truesolutions (Mar 14, 2018)

Hi,
About to do this using a Nissian Leaf an put in to a Landrover
How up to date is that list of bits that was needed?

I have got a complete Leaf, un damaged and driving about.
So should have all the parts need so want to make sure get all needed.


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

It seems to be quite straightforward if you label all connectors and components and reinstall them correctly outside the car...Quite frustrating if you miss something...I've detailed some of my triumphs and struggles:

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199847


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## ybpvin (Jul 11, 2019)

Good time!
I have read all the pages on this topic but have not found information on how to run the 2013 charger outside the car.
The charger starts, runs for a minute and restarts, but the charging does not go.
Maybe someone has experience in starting a charger?


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Before it starts charging, ensure that car is completely off. 
Hit a timer button to over ride any timer that is programmed when car was running. 

Get yourself a LeadSpy pro and check if it shows any error messages. Clear those error messages..


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## ybpvin (Jul 11, 2019)

Of the nissan leaf components, I use a high-voltage battery, charger and can-bus translator.
Probably a problem in the can-bus data stream?


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

You need everything to be connected, if you want to get the charger work. There are many interconnect wiring, missing any of those will throw many errors. 

If you don't have VCU, I don't think you can get charger to work, unless you come up with another solution to send signal to the charger to start charging.


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## ybpvin (Jul 11, 2019)

More in video))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcicLyrgxBE


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## eBIMMER (Feb 28, 2020)

skooler said:


> do you get a red cog on the display? the park lock needs to be locked on power up - easiest to leave it in the gearbox but you can hold it with a breaker bar and torx socket.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


What am amazing thread this is, thanks everybody for the dedication and continued interest in toying with the Nissan Leaf!

I'm going to try this tidbit right now but I just posted the start of my build thread and I think the Parking Actuator is what is preventing me from spinning the motor on the bench. Please cruise over and take a look:

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1058791#post1058791


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## taygeezy (Jun 18, 2020)

I'm happy to see such an extensive thread with proper history of development and manipulation of this platform. Warms my heart.
A STEM education nonprofit I've been involved with for years is doing a Leaf swap, and this is where we're at:













The harness is out and grounded, battery box disconnected, but _most _other accessories are connected. The system right now shows dash, but I can't get any OBD functionality. What am I missing? LeafSpy won't initiate, and without OBD, I can't read DTCs. Looking forward to getting past this initial stage since I think the work of so many others is going to make the rest of this project a breeze. 

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

taygeezy said:


> I'm happy to see such an extensive thread with proper history of development and manipulation of this platform. Warms my heart.
> A STEM education nonprofit I've been involved with for years is doing a Leaf swap, and this is where we're at:
> View attachment 119950
> View attachment 119951
> ...


Put the lid back on the PDM. There is a microswitch in there.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk


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## Jimmy Moore (Jul 21, 2020)

Rob,
R u still reviewing this topic?


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Jimmy Moore said:


> Rob,
> R u still reviewing this topic?


I don’t thinks he’s been here in over 3 years


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## Jimmy Moore (Jul 21, 2020)

Is any of you diy leaf guys near Greenville SC


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## taygeezy (Jun 18, 2020)

skooler said:


> Put the lid back on the PDM. There is a microswitch in there.


Am I confused about the PDM cover? I'd be surprised if that switch would be what's stopping ODB comms.








I thought this was all the '12 Leaf got (which this is, a '12).


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

taygeezy said:


> Am I confused about the PDM cover? I'd be surprised if that switch would be what's stopping ODB comms.
> View attachment 120199
> 
> I thought this was all the '12 Leaf got (which this is, a '12).


PDM cover applies to gen2 onwards. Your gen1 there may be different.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk


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## taygeezy (Jun 18, 2020)

skooler said:


> PDM cover applies to gen2 onwards. Your gen1 there may be different.


I'm currently thinking my best next step will be to connect all HV connectors and probably the battery too. I can't come up with why I'm getting no OBD anything, which means no LeafSpy.
edit: I think I saw a jumper in one of Rob's videos. Anyone know how the interlock system(s) checks for high volt connection?


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

Just picked up a 2012 drivetrain actually the whole car for cheap. Was going to do a 67 bug but now thinking how nice the motor/gearbox is from the leaf was looking into dropping the whole motor/gearbox into a 2009 mini cooper and just mating the two haves of the half shafts to the mini? Does anyone know if this would work? Not a lot of room in a mini cooper but the motor/gearbox is not very big from the 2011/12 leafs.


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

It worked in my classic Mini. The tricky bit is attaching the motor, getting custom axles, and finding space for batteries.

Seems like it'd be 10x the cost of simply...buying the electric Mini they sell...


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

I see the 2021 emini for 30K, my cost is as follows $500 for complete 2012 leaf, sold wheels $300 and a headlight for $150 so leaf parts so far free plus made $50. The 2009 super clean mini cooper with blown motor rebuilt 6 speed and new brakes and tires is $700 seemed good deal. Now your right I have batteries free from junk yard 10 1kwh egolf packs but would need another 10 to get the voltage up to what the leaf needs. What voltages do people run the 11/12 drivetrains at? Seems it needs a minium of 200vdc to be decent. As for cost should be in under $1000, much less than a new one.


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

I mean...don't forget resale...and labor...

According to Thunderstruck, the Leaf inverter will run down to 140V.


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

Each egolf module is about 15vdc so looks like 10 or 12 would be ideal, I'll need to get a few more it seems. Does the Thunderstruck VCU work well? Seems like a decent solution. Was going to also use the leaf pedal and hopefully the dc/dc and maybe the charger as well.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hbthink said:


> Now your right I have batteries free from junk yard 10 1kwh egolf packs but would need another 10 to get the voltage up to what the leaf needs. What voltages do people run the 11/12 drivetrains at? Seems it needs a minium of 200vdc to be decent.





hbthink said:


> Each egolf module is about 15vdc so looks like 10 or 12 would be ideal, I'll need to get a few more it seems.


360 V (nominal) is ideal for the Leaf motor; that's 96S in typical lithium-ion chemistries and thus 24 large eGolf modules (which are 4S; there are also half-sized 2S modules in the eGolf). Even if 200 V nominal is "decent" that would be 53S or at least 13 large eGolf modules... not 10 or 12.



Tremelune said:


> I mean...don't forget resale...and labor...
> 
> According to Thunderstruck, the Leaf inverter will run down to 140V.


That's presumably voltage into the controller, so if the minimum (not nominal) voltage per cell is 3.2V then 44S is the minimum configuration, or 11 eGolf modules.

Running and providing satisfactory power at the required speed are not the same thing.


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

I wonder what the typical Leaf conversion voltage is? And what batteries are they using? Probably easiest to reuse the Leaf battery itself but stuffing it into a Mini could be difficult? I could spot weld together a 96s pack using 18650 cells.


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