# Kaylor Monster Motor



## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

That's the Kosty motor 
its a Kostove motor...there OK nothing to really brag too much about from what I'v read..


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Don't the interpoles mean it's a compound motor and can do regen?


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

They must have seen your post and fixed the page... It says only 200 hp now.

I have an 11 inch Kostov. The specs are similar, but my motor looks very different from that motor. It has 4 mounting bolts on a smaller circle. It also has vent screens at both ends. Maybe Kostov had different styles? You can see a couple pics of my motor here:
http://www.geocities.com/david_dymaxion/Adaptor/adaptor.html

You don't need to be compound or sepex wound for interpoles. However, if the motor is sepex wound, it is a really good idea, as you can weaken the field alot and need the interpoles to prevent arcing.



Jason Lattimer said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I found a website selling a motor they call the Kaylor Monster Motor. Says it produces 250 horsepower at 144 volts and 1000 amps. I know that number is impossible(my math comes out to just over 193 horsepower), but I wondered if anyone has had any experience with this motor. It seems like a good price at 1776 dollars.
> 
> ...


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Don't the interpoles mean it's a compound motor and can do regen?


No inter poles are little poles between the main poles that help in prevent arcing at higher voltages..Helps shape the flux from the main poles


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Jason Lattimer said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I found a website selling a motor they call the Kaylor Monster Motor. Says it produces 250 horsepower at 144 volts and 1000 amps. I know that number is impossible(my math comes out to just over 193 horsepower), but I wondered if anyone has had any experience with this motor. It seems like a good price at 1776 dollars.
> 
> ...


Great find! Thanks!

Speaking of interpoles...this motor should be able to handle more than 144V right?

This guy is running 288V on his kostov...
http://www.evalbum.com/723

240V here...
http://www.evalbum.com/388

240V x 1000A = 240kW = 322HP


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> ...
> Speaking of interpoles...this motor should be able to handle more than 144V right?
> 
> This guy is running 288V on his kostov...
> ...


Nope. This vehicle is using a Zilla controller which can be programmed to limit the maximum voltage to the motor. It does this by automatically limiting the duty cycle in proportion to the sensed battery voltage and the programmed motor voltage. There is some disagreement over whether this technique actually works, though, because the motor still sees the peak battery voltage every cycle but it is interrupted many times for each comm bar which might stop arcing (or might make it worse). This could be easily answered just by video-recording the commutator/brushes while the motor is heavily loaded and spinning but no one has gotten around to doing so yet (I'm guilty, too: it's on my list...)

Just for an example, the guy in the above album has a 288V battery pack and a motor rated for 144V, nominal. When the pack is fully charged up it should read around 302V and when a heavy current is being drawn during hard acceleration from a stop let's say it drops* to 264V. In either case, the Zilla will automatically limit the maximum duty cycle to ~47.6% in the first case and ~54.5% in the second so that even if the throttle is floored it will never see an average voltage higher than 144V.


* - just an example - I have no idea of either the batteries' Peukert coefficient nor the peak current being drawn from them during acceleration.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If the interpoles are there to prevent arcing at higher voltage, and we know non interpoled motors can run at 156-170 ish without a Zilla, wouldn't that mean it should be able to run higher than that? Also, if it turns out that PWM does not protect the motor from arcing and these motors are surviving at 200+ volts can't we then assume they can handle that voltage?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> If the interpoles are there to prevent arcing at higher voltage, and we know non interpoled motors can run at 156-170 ish without a Zilla, wouldn't that mean it should be able to run higher than that?


There are different ways of getting to a higher voltage rating and they are not all created equal. _In my opinion_, the best method is to use neutral brush timing and wind the motor for the higher voltage; a close second is to add interpoles to compensate for the distortion in the field caused by armature reaction and least desirable is to advance the brushes to the point where the field and armature are once again aligned (least desirable because there is a cost in torque per amp and, as I understand it, this is most effective at a particular torque and speed).




JRP3 said:


> Also, if it turns out that PWM does not protect the motor from arcing and these motors are surviving at 200+ volts can't we then assume they can handle that voltage?


At what cost to the motor's life? Let's disregard catastrophic flashover, in which the arcing bridges the gap between adjacent brushes, because this usually results in immediate destruction of the motor (and the controller if it does not have fast enough current limiting). So, short of that point, how much faster are the motor's brushes and comm bars wearing out? There is a trade-off here, the question is, at what point do the returns diminish or even go negative? I dunno, I'm an electronics guy


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

John Wayland ran a 336 volt pack with his, and even with voltage sag was putting around 250 volts on his Kostov.

I'm planning to go with about 288 Volts on mine, but I'm going to increase the voltage a battery at a time, video the motor and time runs (if another battery suddenly gives less than expected acceleration increase, you are likely arcing). Likewise I'll ramp up max current in steps.



Bowser330 said:


> Great find! Thanks!
> 
> Speaking of interpoles...this motor should be able to handle more than 144V right?
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2009)

The Kaylor Monster Motor Ad you see is old. I have been in contact with Roy for the past year on other matters and that price does not reflect current prices. Sorry but these are going to cost more at current prices. The Kostov motors are series motors with interpoles and the interpoles are designed to allow high voltage with no arcing and to keep the motor in the neutral timing state. This also allows the motor to do regen with a far greater safety margin than an advanced series motor. So in a nut shell if you happen to have a controller that will allow your series motor to do regen then you can use the Kostov for that purpose but you should limit the regen amps to a safe level. The Zapi H3 and H2 controllers both do full regen and are usually coupled to the Kostov Motor. I have an 11" Kostov and I will be using it for racing. I will only put 144 volts to the motor but with the right controller like the Zilla you can have a higher voltage pack and keep 144 volts to the motor. It also allows for higher amps if needed. I will not be using regen with my Kostov as it will be pretty much useless doing 1/4 mile runs. 

I plan on using mine but for the right price I would sell it. I have an 11" Kostov with extra brushes and an extra armature and field windings. I also have motor mounts and a taperlock and flywheel for a Hundai but not sure which model. I also have Zapi H3 controller that is set up for 144 volts and 1000 amps. At this set up for the Zapi it would be best not to use the regen but you can use the Zapi as a normal high voltage controller. Just forgo the regen. The H2 is best suited for regen as it can handle higher input amps from regen than the H3. Some H3's died from too much amp input. So the whole shooting match I will let go for $2400 plus any shipping costs if needed. I can deliver to Sacramento or the Bay area but any further it will be shipped. 

Pete : )


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Gotta get my income taxes done, but if you still have them for sale in a month or two I will take you up on your offer. Question, does the Zapi have normal pot box inputs? and is the Kostov safe at 144 volts?


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2009)

Yes both the Kostov and the Zapi are matched and able to run 144 volts. As far as I know the pot input is for normal pots used like the curtis pot. 

Pete : )



Jason Lattimer said:


> Gotta get my income taxes done, but if you still have them for sale in a month or two I will take you up on your offer. Question, does the Zapi have normal pot box inputs? and is the Kostov safe at 144 volts?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

how much does the zapi H3 run?


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

Hello to all,
I actually work at Kostov Motors Bulgaria and was really surprised to find your thread about the monster motor 
It is definetely produced by Kostov excluding the red color. One can tell by many small details - there is a drawing on our web site
http://kostov-motors.com/files/productattachments/4f0b05ecd5fc6e4a422d4659627026ff_kostov11.pdf
that can be used to compare (the site is not yet 100% finished but the EV motors section is - http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovlineofmotors/- there are several other motors there based on the original 11" as well as 9" models all optimised for EV conversions).
DavidDymaxion's motor is the older model (up to 2001) or maybe a 20kW/96V version of it.
Regarding some of the other questions:
-the 11" is available as both SepEx and Series though there are very few SepEx controllers at 144V
-with interpoles reversing and regen are much easier.
-max "safe" voltage for our 11" 192V is 192V; it can do 220/248V but there the real problem are rpm - DC collectors are not really good above 6000rpm.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the information.  It's alway nice to get it straight from the source.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

I agree, Welcome and thanks a whole bunch for that information. I have saved the PDF files. Now to find a person who can build a controller that will not only do 1000+ amps but also regen. Oh and 168 + volts too. Now that would be just super. : )


I don't think my Zapi is up to that challenge. Nice to know you make SepEx. But we still need higher amperage and voltage for those as well. 

Pete : )


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Plamenator said:


> Hello to all,
> I actually work at Kostov Motors Bulgaria and was really surprised to find your thread about the monster motor
> It is definetely produced by Kostov excluding the red color. One can tell by many small details - there is a drawing on our web site
> http://kostov-motors.com/files/productattachments/4f0b05ecd5fc6e4a422d4659627026ff_kostov11.pdf
> ...


Welcome Plamenator!

Thank you for coming on and sharing this information with our community.

So when you say optimized for EV use....does this mean it can handle more amps peak and more amps continuously?


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Awesome post, thanks for the info and links!


Plamenator said:


> Hello to all,
> I actually work at Kostov Motors Bulgaria and was really surprised to find your thread about the monster motor
> It is definetely produced by Kostov excluding the red color. One can tell by many small details - there is a drawing on our web site
> http://kostov-motors.com/files/productattachments/4f0b05ecd5fc6e4a422d4659627026ff_kostov11.pdf
> ...


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi again,
In order to optimise the motors for EV we have implemented the following changes:
-bigger collectors with strenghtening metal rings inside
-bigger copper conductors in the stator windings
-insulation has been upgraded to class H
-the coupling dimensions (flange+shaft) have been changed to the "industry standard".
-rpm have been increased to the 5000-6000 range
This has increased amperage for example for 11" 168V from 192A of the original 11" to 265A. I have no reliable data to compare with Netgain's 11" motors as they do not specify the nominal point on their web site.


What are you looking for anyway in terms of power, voltage, amps and rpm?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

How about letting us know if there are any US distributors of Kostov motors?

Also, I sent you a PM.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Plamenator said:


> What are you looking for anyway in terms of power, voltage, amps and rpm?


Personally I think this sounds very intriguing as it is, you're well in pair with the Warp and ADC motors I've already considered with the additional bonus that you're on the right side of the ocean for me. 

However, one problem I have is that during winter the roads are some periods covered in salt slush that will probably kill a motor pretty fast if it's allowed to enter it. A motor that isn't wide open but that's cooled either with water (maybe not practical for DC?) or by an external fan that can be placed more sheltered would be a good thing.

Of course, that's possible to modify afterwards, but it would still be nice to have it as a factory option with a casing where you don't have to cover all the ventilation holes first...

How can I get hold of a Kostov in Sweden? Could you ship one or do you have retailers locally? What kind of money are we talking about for a 9" or a 11"?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Plamenator said:


> Hi again,
> What are you looking for anyway in terms of power, voltage, amps and rpm?


I think Qer nailed it...the most important thing people want to know is..how many clams?

About the power though...I think people will want to know the amount of time (seconds) that the motor can handle 1000A, or 800A, or 600A, etc...

Netgain has already provided this information about their Warp line of motors so it would be valuable data.

Also due to the higher voltage, the motor should be able to sustain a higher amperage at a higher rpm than a comparable lower voltage motor. I feel this could be important data to relay as well..

It would be really great to see performance figures that are 248V and 1000A peak, It seems to be where many people are headed and if you were to have some data graphed for those points or close to them, I think people would be really excited....I know its a dream request...


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

We have a distributor that is based in Pennsylvania - http://www.bohlinger.biz/
I have updated the web site to include a price list - http://kostov-motors.com/files/productattachments/71c6dfe4852601b78ea944118427b464_kostov_prices.pdf

Regarding Qer's questions:
-in Europe we sell directly; prices are at the link above; you can contact me at [email protected] should you want to place an order; transport to Sweeden should be about USD 100-150.
-we can also assist you with an adaptor plate if you have a good technical drawing.
-water cooling is less practical for a DC as the real problem is the collector which can only be veeery indirectly cooled via stator based water cooling.
-we are researching forced axial cooling via a dedicated 12/24V compound motor in frame size 81mm, which will also significantly reduce noise at high main motor rpm but this is some 6 months in the future 

I would really love to see the Netgain data that Browser330 writes about - any ideas where can I get it from?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/do-you-really-need-1000ai-25799p24.html

post#236



> I finally called NetGain (the parent company is an authorized distributor) and asked for the current vs. time data for the WarP motors. The answer I got might be surprising... all of the WarP motors have the same current rating. Yep. Doesn't matter if it's an 8", 9", 11" or a 13". The reason is because they all use the same size copper "wire" which determines ampacity. Larger motors simply produce more torque per amp...
> 
> Anyway, the specs are:
> 
> ...


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Welcome Plamenator. 

What's the weight of these two?

1) Kostov 11" 192V

2) Kostov 9" 168V

Do you offer a dual shaft?

Btw. Is a DC controller available that can put out 100+kW?


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Plamenator,

Yes, please post weight of 9 inch 144volt also.

Thanks,

Eric


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi,
Speaking from memory, all 9" models are around 50kg, while the 11" ones are 80-85kg.
All motors have dual shaft versions.
In the next 10 days the website (http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovlineofevmotors/) will be updated to include exact weight figures and drawings of the dual shaft versions.

Regarding the controller, I am not an expert, but I would think that all of the Zilla's can achieve 100kW (and much more for some models) be it as peak or even continuous value.
Many other controllers achieve 800-1000A as peak which at 144V is 100kW+ 
In my opinion it is really amps that you should be looking at and not kW.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Plamenator said:


> Many other controllers achieve 800-1000A as peak which at 144V is 100kW+


I can't think of any that are available now, except maybe Electrocraft, if you can wait for one to be built.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I can't think of any that are available now, except maybe Electrocraft, if you can wait for one to be built.


You are correct JRP3 but there are a few more worth mentioning....in the pipeline...

Kelly, doesnt kelly sell a 1000A controller? 
DCP Raptor 1000A, someone posted a reply to a thread saying you have to contact them to make you one... (it worked for john wayland before he went zilla)
Belktronix 800A, Soon to be released..i would email them for more info...
BFM750 750A, hopefully more sooner than later..


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> You are correct JRP3 but there are a few more worth mentioning....in the pipeline...
> 
> Kelly, doesnt kelly sell a 1000A controller?
> DCP Raptor 1000A, someone posted a reply to a thread saying you have to contact them to make you one... (it worked for john wayland before he went zilla)
> ...


As far as I can see, 144V - 650A peak is the strongest Kelly controller.


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

So with certainty the 9" models weight 43-45kg, while the 11" ones are 79-81kg.
The web site http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors/kostovlineofevmotors/ is updated with the new drawings, that have on them weight, dual shafts, thermistors, rpm sensors and so on details


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