# New EV Project



## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Hey all, First off i'm new here, from Ontario and i'm planning my first EV.

What happened is i already purchased parts for a project that I went gas instead (90hp mini buggy)

But I still want to make something electric, plus i have like 2200$ invested in parts.

What I have is a me0709 Motor (new style i guess?)
a 72v 300A alltrax AXE7234
Contactor, wires and pot control .ect
6 12v deep cycle lead acid batteries (130ah)
I have ordered a cheap china 3a 72v charger

And Basically I wanna make something with it. I was originally thinking of a street kart but I have a 90mph buggy now and an 800lb street kart is not overly practical.

I have all tools and machinery (mills, lathe, waterjet, woodworking machines, electronic testing equip... the list goes on) 

I'm basically stuck on what to build, as speed is probably not the most pratical thing to go for. and i'd like to be able to have a sustained run time of about 45min or better.

I think something like an argo wold be a sweet conversion for my current parts, or a quad, a kart or buggy, open to damn near anything but I want to have an efficient setup for my current parts. i'm thinking that a snomobile would be slow and innificient, a bike would be good but i dont like bikes..

throw ideas to me!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

What sort of use would you have for an EV of about 20mls range? Give us something to aim for. Grocery getter (tough in your weather), lawn mower, snow blower, etc. Must be worth while. Winter cold is death to those lead batteries though so a summer use would be better.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> What sort of use would you have for an EV of about 20mls range? Give us something to aim for. Grocery getter (tough in your weather), lawn mower, snow blower, etc. Must be worth while. Winter cold is death to those lead batteries though so a summer use would be better.


I've narrowed it down to the following:
something with 3-6 wheels.
Something for 2 people. 
I'm thinking a Quad or a modified golf cart.
Would either of these be pratical? If it were a quad it would likley have to be a larger 4x4 to accomidate the battery weight.

I'm going today to check out a golf cart with a dead gas engine, only 200$ so that may be a good starting point. 

I like the idea of the JD Gators and some other electric utilitys, i'm wondering about wet/damp weather, or just straight up water. what do i have to be careful of? 
Would I be better going with like a 6x6 argo, I would lose alot of effencey through the drive system.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

For 2 seats and battery weight a side-by-side would be better. More useful also. Would that range be enough? 20mls. 
If you only want off-road use I would replace a quad/side-by-side cvt assembly with the DC motor, probably with a fixed belt drive reduction for better torque off-road.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

PS, golf carts can be useful off-road also, a buddy of mine used his old one on a farm, through some ridiculous of FC road train in stock trim. Bit rattly and bumpy with the stock tyres but I know the yanks love pimping carts for off-road. It would only be 2nd but with fixed axle that gets you almost everywhere.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Your DC motor won't mind water at these voltages as long as you have a fine mesh guard to keep chunks out the brushes/rotor.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> For 2 seats and battery weight a side-by-side would be better. More useful also. Would that range be enough? 20mls.
> If you only want off-road use I would replace a quad/side-by-side cvt assembly with the DC motor, probably with a fixed belt drive reduction for better torque off-road.


That sounds about right, My motor only spins 3300 rpm under load so i could gear it according for my desired top end (50kph would be Lots) 20miles sounds like enough, it would be 20 hard miles though.

would a belt drive be better than a chain drive? i'm assuming you mean the cog type belt that works similar to the chain drive.

I was also wondering about using a differential system, or somehow dividing the power to the front and back wheels both running open diferentials, for increased traction and more efficient turning/offroading.

I imagine just running a solid axle in the back will work fine too, not sure how much effiencey I would actually lose


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> PS, golf carts can be useful off-road also, a buddy of mine used his old one on a farm, through some ridiculous of FC road train in stock trim. Bit rattly and bumpy with the stock tyres but I know the yanks love pimping carts for off-road. It would only be 2nd but with fixed axle that gets you almost everywhere.


do most carts have a solid axle? I think that's the way I might go, I'll be able to outperform a stock cart pretty good as far as power, not sure about range. but I can always upgrade/add batteries. already have about 500lbs of them tho.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Most do yes. You should have enough batteries for that range in a light vehicle, so keep the weight off. That speed is reasonable so should be ok for short bursts. I would suggest thinking of using an ICE engined donor kart as the CVT will improve torque and efficiency at low speeds and keep a good top speed. Probably mean you can use all the setup of the original CVT gearing minus the clutch.
Try to get a partly modified kart or one already modified but with a dud motor as this will have the goodies you need off-roading etc for alot less than building it up yourself. 
Share what you find and we'll all bounce ideas about.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Most do yes. You should have enough batteries for that range in a light vehicle, so keep the weight off. That speed is reasonable so should be ok for short bursts. I would suggest thinking of using an ICE engined donor kart as the CVT will improve torque and efficiency at low speeds and keep a good top speed. Probably mean you can use all the setup of the original CVT gearing minus the clutch.
> Try to get a partly modified kart or one already modified but with a dud motor as this will have the goodies you need off-roading etc for alot less than building it up yourself.
> Share what you find and we'll all bounce ideas about.


Well I found an old golf cart that rolls around and steers for 150$, It was previously electric, most everything has been removed as they were going to use a old air cooled sled engine for power, but nothing had been butchered yet.
PS: i have an old sled engine for sale lol.

I like the idea of the ICE TC, but being I found an electric cart would I be able to run my motor right on the input shaft? Does anyone know roughly what these carts are geared at? Also I do have a few torque converters around but they are all for high rpm engines, like 3000 rpm engagement.

The cart has an aluminum frame that I'll strip down and clean up and modify where necessary, since my batteries are group 31 size and I have 6 of them It may be a little tight.

I think my biggest problem will be mating the motor to the drive axle.

I think i'll also have to add to the rear leafs for the extra weight, replace the shocks, I haven't looked at the front end yet either. I'm going to try and do as much of this project out of aluminum as possible, I need the welding practice lol


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Sounds good. You have some good skills for this by the sounds of things. 
Not sure about ratios but it can be calculated easily, and should be marked on the housing, or lurking on the web. 
Can you get some photos up of the cart, frame and axle? 
I'm hoping a direct drive will suit, but maybe a belt reduction is needed. I'd highly recommend mounting the motor on the frame and running a drive shaft to the axle! Even at the sacrifice of some space. Let's see the pics first though


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Some pics of the donor cart








and batteries/motor/ controler

























































And my most recent gasser Project.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Ignore the gasser parts on the donor, they will be removed, 
The rear axle is a Kawisaki, back in the good old days when everything was made in Japan
I cant see there being an easy or pratical way to run a driveshaft to that axle, I may look around for a better rear axle.
Tonights project is going to be stripping it down and planning


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes, what I feared, carts mount the motor to the axle. You could do the same. I'd be tempted to try expose the transmission and see if a belt or chain drive could be adapted.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I see a lovely hub motor there also! That's handy.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

If that was an electric cart I expect the springs should be ok with a bit extra weight so it might be ok sticking with what you have there. Work out the ratio of the axle by how many turn the motor shaft does for one wheel revolution. Also need to see how to mate your motor to it. How heavy is the motor? If you run larger tyres at low pressure the weight on the axle will probably be ok.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> If that was an electric cart I expect the springs should be ok with a bit extra weight so it might be ok sticking with what you have there. Work out the ratio of the axle by how many turn the motor shaft does for one wheel revolution. Also need to see how to mate your motor to it. How heavy is the motor? If you run larger tyres at low pressure the weight on the axle will probably be ok.


Yeah Im not sure how I'll mount the motor yet, i'll count the ratio tonight. If i have to get a new rear end its not a big deal, I could fab up a live axle too if i had to. and Just add a chain.

I do plan on running larger tires and using some sort of lift kit or something fabbed up. I'm not sure how much abuse the stock suspension can handle, Seems like it would be only good for golf course terrain. I think i'll do the rear of the cart first, motor/suspension/shocks and then go from there, battery storage and then tackle the front after.


I'll do a little research on the rearend and see what i can come up with, I may be able to run a jackshaft to correct the gear ratio on the rear end, But I would have to run a swingarm style rear suspension then and the motor would take abuse.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Rather than swing arm, think a multi link like landrover use. Triangulate the top of the axle with a single pivot on the frame, and replace the leafs with trailing arms to the under side of the axle. Then the motor can mount on the triangle and run the drive to the transmission housing. I'd use a belt then and shield underneath it from debris.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Would that work if i were to simply add a sprocket to the outside of the existing rear end (which is 11 or 12:1 and then a larger sprocket on the motor to correct the gearing, I'll draw a pic of what I have envisioned.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Wait, would that not remove all degrees of motion, Or does it use flexability in the material to work? Do I need shocks or springs with the setup? It sounds like the front and of a tractor with track bars on it. Would it not work If i used trailing arms then added shocks to the top ox the axle to frame


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Heres a sketch but i dont think it will work


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

I think I figured It out, I was thinking too 3 dimensional, It'll be basically a swingarm but will be mounted on trailing arms via rubber bushings with spring/shocks running vertically or at a slight angle (wider at the bottom) for stability. i'll do up a drawing.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Not quite what I was thinking. I can't post images atm, not sure why. The triangle is fixed to the axle, and the trailing arms have full movement at both ends. Then spring and shock at each wheel for suspension travel. It is heavier, but can be bolted aluminium, and gives a much stronger arrangement.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

I think I understand what your explaining, basically a combination of swingarm and independant suspension, allowing twist on the center triangle. All i would really gain over the current stock setup is a (better) place to mount the motor and less axle twist. 

Or i could use the bushings from the leafs on the trailing arms. still so damn undecided.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Not a simple solution unfortunately. Have you worked out the ratio of the axle? If it is good you could couple the motor straight to the axle. This would be best for simplicity. Remember to work out the speeds and ratio needed with the bigger wheels! Hopefully with your more powerful motor the ratio will still be good with The bigger tyres. The controller should give plenty torque with that motor which is a benefit. Is it stripped down? If you can get a few more photos around the chassis it'd help me help with good solutions for the mounting arrangement. The benefit of the triangulated swing arm setup is stiffness and articulation. And a location for the motor. Maybe building your own axle would be a better solution.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

I'll take a few more pics, axle is 12:1 aprox, i'm hopning for 22" tires and at a 3300 rpm motor that puts me at 18mph, So I will have to throw some gearing between the motor and gearbox, I would likley have to anyawys for the dimensions of the motor.ect. i'm going to try and work on that today, Since I already have the rearend I may as well give it a try.


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## electriccarbill (Sep 16, 2013)

The motor you have is to small for a car even a small one but I used that same motor on a motorcycle conversion and have been driving it for years. I started with a Honda CX500 and went with direct drive on the drive shaft. Your lead acid batteries won't work well. Save your money and get 21 large format lithium cells. My bike can go up to 70 mph and I have gone 70 miles several times. I have lots of pics during construction. If you have any interest contact me and I'll send you some pics and we can talk.
Bill 850-893-7226


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Bill. Hezsus is building a golf cart for off-road. So the motor is plenty for the 30mph needed.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hezsus 
Can you get some detail pics of the axle and gears as I suspect if you lose one stage of gears, or maybe 2 and run your motor through a belt transfer to the axle for the ideal ratio. Should go well then. Please get the pics, I'm keen to help. This is a fascinating build I'd love to do myself. Thanks for letting me live through your adventure a bit!


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Hezsus
> Can you get some detail pics of the axle and gears as I suspect if you lose one stage of gears, or maybe 2 and run your motor through a belt transfer to the axle for the ideal ratio. Should go well then. Please get the pics, I'm keen to help. This is a fascinating build I'd love to do myself. Thanks for letting me live through your adventure a bit!


Thanks for the help, Its nice having the support, I'll get some pics, what i was thinking was simply welding a sprocket onto the imput shaft of the rear end, then trim away the housing where needed to allow the chain to pass through, I'm not sure how long it will hold up, but it will at least get me started and I can always change it after.

pics in 20min


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

This is a quick sketch of the swingarm idea you gave me, at least this is what i got from it.









A few angles of the frame



















Input shaft is flush with casing, would have to trim.










Like this, but with a properly sized sprocket










This swingarm setup dosent work too bad i'd still likley keep the stock leafs over it though.










Just some cheap springs for mock up.









I could always throw this under there.. would be a little wode and heavy tho.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

http://server1.buggiesunlimited.com...p=230657&sid=7cc878e0218d0aa74f876cb430e27fce

this guy has it figured out, might copy him, pretty much exactly what i'm after


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

The sketch is exactly what I was suggesting but with a wider triangle. 
That guy has a serious setup and pretty much over kill for you. Can you determine how many gears are in the axle? As I mentioned maybe you can remove a stage to reduce the ratio. That motor almost fits perfectly. Also, did those axles fit on both ICE and electric carts? Maybe there are different ratios you can get to improve things without cutting the Axl. Otherwise I'd suggest mounting the motor to the triangle as I said and running a belt drive pulley from the input to the motor. And a rough cover for the belt between motor and axle. Should be reliable and maintenance free then also. Rather than a mucky chain.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> The sketch is exactly what I was suggesting but with a wider triangle.
> That guy has a serious setup and pretty much over kill for you. Can you determine how many gears are in the axle? As I mentioned maybe you can remove a stage to reduce the ratio. That motor almost fits perfectly. Also, did those axles fit on both ICE and electric carts? Maybe there are different ratios you can get to improve things without cutting the Axl. Otherwise I'd suggest mounting the motor to the triangle as I said and running a belt drive pulley from the input to the motor. And a rough cover for the belt between motor and axle. Should be reliable and maintenance free then also. Rather than a mucky chain.


I Decided to jump in a bit today and got the suspension/motor mounts figured out and tacked up. I'll post pics in the am (cant from this computer) It went pretty well, I may have to make the bushing on the triangle (its actually a square with a point) a little narrower and softer bushings for more articulation. hard to tell without shocks mounted though and the super stiff front suspension.

I see what your saying about the gearing in the rear end, I havent tore into it yet, but I think I will leave it unchanged for now, I dont want to put too much torque on the motor and input shaft bearings so It may work well that way.

Chains can be messy and I have not welded anything yet so belt is still an option, as far as belts go though I'm pretty much lost, are they more efficient than chains, as far as power conversion. I know they cost more and require more critical setup, quieter.ect 

Do the belts require similar tension techniques as chains (I would likley run a spring idler or cross my fingers for a tight fit right away)

I believe my next task is finding a decent set of springs, I can basically alter the ride height with springs alone which is nice

PS: really good idea with the suspension, I think its gonna work out real well


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

also, it now may be interesting opening up the axle, that i've welded it in place pretty solid basically.... oh well (hopefully the patch i made on the case after cutting though didnt leave much inside.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)




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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hezsus that looks great, except way over engineered. I fear there's alot of unnecessary weight is all. But solid and exactly what I meant. Belts are easy. You can use a sprung tensioner or slot the motor holes so that they pivot about the bottom hole in a diamond configuration ie one hole at bottom and one at top and the rest wherever then twisting the motor towards or away from the axle tensions the belt and tightening the bolts holds the tension. Plenty choice of belts in aftermarket choppers and bikes like harleys with belt drive or in industrial applications. Just google for some. You must know the circumference, which will depend on the pulley sizes. There must be a shop in your town that can supply this stuff. Try the phone book etc online and have a word with as many places as you can. You might even match your spline on the axle and key way on the motor meaning no mods! Looking great though. Not sure what to do with the front end. What do the off road guys do to them?


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Hezsus that looks great, except way over engineered. I fear there's alot of unnecessary weight is all. But solid and exactly what I meant. Belts are easy. You can use a sprung tensioner or slot the motor holes so that they pivot about the bottom hole in a diamond configuration ie one hole at bottom and one at top and the rest wherever then twisting the motor towards or away from the axle tensions the belt and tightening the bolts holds the tension. Plenty choice of belts in aftermarket choppers and bikes like harleys with belt drive or in industrial applications. Just google for some. You must know the circumference, which will depend on the pulley sizes. There must be a shop in your town that can supply this stuff. Try the phone book etc online and have a word with as many places as you can. You might even match your spline on the axle and key way on the motor meaning no mods! Looking great though. Not sure what to do with the front end. What do the off road guys do to them?


It is much heavier than intended, i originally walked into the shop thinking aluminum, then after trying to clean the old alum to weld i opted for mild steel "triangle" The trailing arms were gonna be alum as well, but I didnt have any proper dia tube on the shelf, so 1/2" wall dom it was... its pretty serious overkill in those aspects, not the rear weighs about as much as the front of the cart (which is damn heavy) I'll look into the belt drive, the only reason i'm thinking sprockets is cause they're basically free and i can swap them very easily, I know exactly what your saying with the motor adjustment and I even had it drawn up to rotate on one pivot bolt but second guessed and thought that the bolts may slip so went with solid holes and figured for a tensioner. I'm gonna leave the motor/rearend setup for now (everything is just tacked anyways) and focus on the battery mounting, and other electronics. 

As for the front end i've seen alot of double a-arm setups with atv shocks, I'm more worried that i'm gonna be way to heavy for standard atv shocks (probably pushing 1000+lbs with rider/s) I'd like to widen the stance a bit too on the front (then use spacers to match the rear) So i'm thinking pretty much completely reinvent it and lighten it up a bit too.

i'll get pics of the front and battery mounts later on. then i'll have to figure what size tires i want, was thinking 22's but I could likley go up to 25's. Or I have some argo tires at my rents place that may fit. 

i'm oubviously gonna mount the batteries in the stock location, will just have to cut and weld to get them in there (kinda wishing I went with lifepo4 now) but 850$ for 130ah at 72v isnt bad either. and the weight helps keep me level on uneven terrain (i'm just gonna go with that logic for now)


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Gonna mount the batteries like this i think, then ill move to the front suspension and hopefully find some tires.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hezsus please may I suggest you get shocks that mount to the existing shock mounts. The current setup will severely limit suspension travel! 
The battery placement looks good. 
Looks like you could fabricate longer front suspension arms and keep the upside down leaf spring suspension, or transplant an atv front suspension end.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Hezsus please may I suggest you get shocks that mount to the existing shock mounts. The current setup will severely limit suspension travel!
> The battery placement looks good.
> Looks like you could fabricate longer front suspension arms and keep the upside down leaf spring suspension, or transplant an atv front suspension end.


You mean that mount vertical from the axle straight up? Thats lilkey what I will end up doing, Should they be closer to the center of the axle to allow for better axle articulation? I want to get longer shocks For more travel as well.

Any ideas where I should/shouldnt mount the controller, contactor, charger and voltage converter? I was thinking inverted (on hinges or the like) above the 2 middle batteries for easy access.

From what I can tell the front leaf offers much less independent movement that my current rear setup, I will probably use shocks for it as well, I will definately lengthen the a-arm/s as well. i'll also look into revamping the steering, 3 full turns from lock to lock is a little to much for me.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Got the batteries mounted and fabbed up a strap to hold all of them with just 2 bolts, next thing will be the floor and side rails, I plan to keep the rubber mat but fix the thin alum that is supporting it, Gonna weld a formed alum chanel over the previous bent and crooked rails, possibly will get to this tomorrow, then onto the front suspension, I think I can use the stock hubs and just run double a-arms from the stock location, even use the stock shock mounts. will have to lengthen the steering tie rods and adjust for any clearance issues.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Typed a long reply and it timed out so will try again


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Better to keep the shocks on the axle where they are, but move them to the front, and get longer shocks and lean them forward.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

To calculate the ideal angle, the length from swingarm pivot to the bottom shock mount should be less than the length from the pivot to the top shock mount, and you want the shock to be close to or up to 90 degrees square to the swingarm when it is fully compressed.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> To calculate the ideal angle, the length from swingarm pivot to the bottom shock mount should be less than the length from the pivot to the top shock mount, and you want the shock to be close to or up to 90 degrees square to the swingarm when it is fully compressed.


Good info, Thanks. I'm thinking of shocks for a vw buggy (or thats what i search on ebay anyways.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

ATV rear shocks are good also, any off road vehicle of similar weight. Work out how much weight will be on the vehicle and then it is just trigonometry of the shock angle to the ground to see how much spring rate you want, and also what stroke of the shock for suspension travel.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> ATV rear shocks are good also, any off road vehicle of similar weight. Work out how much weight will be on the vehicle and then it is just trigonometry of the shock angle to the ground to see how much spring rate you want, and also what stroke of the shock for suspension travel.


i'm thinking i'll be around 1200-1400lbs with rider, i'm hoping to shave some weight off, so those would be max numbers. damn batteries weigh about 500lbs tho.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

So its been a little while, been pretty busy the last few weeks.
I did manage to get shocks mounted in the rear, I think its going to work pretty good. I settled on chain drive over belt, simply because I already had everything I needed, Just need to build a tensioner.
I'm pretty close to the driving stage (still far from completion) so I decided that i'll make it able to move and see if the performance is what i'm expecting. 
The kit I got came with some real nice 6GA wire, Will this be sufficient for 300A at 72v? there will be about 2-3' before the controller and 1-2 after.
I have some 4 and 2 GA wire as well, its just standard welding cable though, I'd like to use the wire I got in the kit if it will be ok (its double shielded and heavier braided).
Or I may run 2 or 4ga into the controller and 6ga out. or is that a bad idea?

I dont have any brakes hooked up on the cart yet and I didnt get a regen controller. would there still be a braking setting if there is no regen? its an alltrax (first post on here has model)
thanks


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

No braking so get that working before you test drive or do it in lots of space!


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> No braking so get that working before you test drive or do it in lots of space!


Yeah, Mabye i'll make the brakes a priority as well. 
Now in the install guide it mentions for motorcycles to leave 3-4' of cable between controler and motor? any Idea why this would be and why I should or Shouldnt do the same?
I'm gonna run the 6ga wire that came in the kit, according to an online calcuator i'll be at about 0.5-0.75% loss which seems pretty acceptable, and thats at full 350A, which i wont likley hit


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

So, It moves!

hard to find traction on the fresh snow here but I got about 21mph on my gps with stock tires, This things is a torque monster! hard to keep them from spinning, But I can crawl along too which is nice. I'm gonna need front brakes too. big time. also a reversing switch, this thing is damn heavy to be pushing around. 
Now i'm wondering if there is a way to monitor the amperage to this motor as I dont want to overamp for too long, I cant find anything in the controller settings for this. I'm assuming a shunt is the only good way, or mabye a big enough transducer, I really just want to be able to see when I go over 100A to the motor.
I did not adjust anything on the controller, It all looked good (cause i don't really know what it should be)
Is 60 too low for the undervolt? and overvolt is at 90 but I dont think thats too important as long as its set high enough.
With 25" tires (i have room) I'll be at about 31mph which is acceptable. 21 isnt too bad now in the snow with the brakes.
The chain was a bad idea..... its the only thing that makes noise.
I'm going to focus on the front lift now, and try and find some reasonable priced tires.

Criticism is welcome.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hezsus 
Consider welding in an entire quad bike front end for suspension, steering and brakes. Hey you could even use a 4x4 quad with diff and bolt a second small motor with free wheeling hubs for tricky off road driving and 4wd. Maybe too much. 

For a shunt, guys have simply used a programmable digital shunt and one of the longer lengths of motor cable as the shunt and set the shunt to the voltage drop value of the cable. Just a cheap Chinese version of the ammeter is fine. Google it. 

Got any photos of the current incarnation?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Of course, congrats on first test drive dude!


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Of course, congrats on first test drive dude!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

It is looking good Hezsus. The aluminium chassis is really nice on that kart. You have executed the rear drive well, how high is the motor reving at top speed? How much current is it using? I'm thinking maybe you could lower the gearing and run a bit more current for acceleration and limit the Max rpm to keep the chain noise down. Or just get on and put a belt drive on 

How firm is the rear suspension? Have you thought about front suspension?


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> It is looking good Hezsus. The aluminium chassis is really nice on that kart. You have executed the rear drive well, how high is the motor reving at top speed? How much current is it using? I'm thinking maybe you could lower the gearing and run a bit more current for acceleration and limit the Max rpm to keep the chain noise down. Or just get on and put a belt drive on
> 
> How firm is the rear suspension? Have you thought about front suspension?


i'm not sure of the motor rpm or current, i'll have to bring the laptop with me for a drive. the motor should be spinning between 3300 and 3500 rpm I think.
The chain is noisy at all rpms. I will definately be doing something about it. I'll have to get it on dry pavement to see what kind of torque it has.

The rear sits at about 1.5-2" of preload on the shocks, they are kind of squishy feeling. lots of dampening. Hard to tell with the stock front end.

i'm thinking double a-arm for the front end, I like your Idea for 4wd, It would save alot of hassle too, I may go that route, will have to look and find a cheap quad.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Must be loads of older 4wd quads, earlier ones had limited slip diffs rather than locking diffs which would make them simpler. Hope you strike it rich on your hunt! I look forward to it's evolution. 

The rear shocks sound great if they have tangible damping cause with good front suspension and passengers on rough terrain they'll have their work cut out!


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Got the front end done this weekend,
More pics to come. I basically extended the stock upper arms and replaced the leaf with lower arms. moved the steering points up on the knuckles and turned the ball joints for more travel and less steering. on the pass side I welded the ball joint right onto the steering rack, It definately cant turn as sharp and Now i really need a reversing switch. the long travel springs were the hardest part, getting them installed with proper preload and all. It needs finalizing and a little cleaning up. probably add some extra steel on places, but overall it works pretty good.

the tires suck in the foot+ deep snow. its also heavy enough that my sled (old safari 377) wont pull it out.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm gonna look into some 25" ish tires narrow at the front and wide negative (stick out farther) offset for the rear. 

I'll have to make the camber adjustable on the aarms, one wheel is sitting negative and the other positive right now. The stock bushings have alot of play in them with the extended a arms as well. I may have to widen/ remake the lowers so they are adjustable.

The shock mounting looks like poop too, I'll have to fix it. But before I change things I want to try it out.. just need a snow free day to beat the hell out of it and see what breaks. If nothing I may just paint it and call it good... but something will break. especailly since I plan to jump it.

has anyone built their own reversing switch or am I better to just buy one? possibly from an old cart? 

also... depending on how complete this thing is by winter I may look into tracks and skiis


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Wow that looks great. It's turning into a mini sand rail! How much travel has the front and rear suspension got now?


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Wow that looks great. It's turning into a mini sand rail! How much travel has the front and rear suspension got now?


THey are both sitting at about 3" preload on the shocks and have about another 7 to go, i'll get the floor jack out with some pics and see what it can actually do.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

That sounds impressive! Going to be a lively ride. Make sure you can't be shaken right out the seat haha


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

MORE PICS

I built a brush bar for the front as well. I think i'll have to make it a little wider looking but its pretty tough. welded to the frame in 5 spots it helps strengthen the front end up good too.

I also built a box in the back for a cooler or extra battery storage or whatnot.

I think i'm going to use one or both of the deep cubbies up front for 12v batteries to power accessories. just much cheaper than a big dc-dc converter... i'll look into this more tho.


































































Still cant find any info on a reversing switch.. looks like i'm just gonna go stock if i can find one.

Im working on tires too. I may end up doing something entirely diferent with my rear end and front hubs/steering if tires continue to prove very expensive for either my 4 on 4 pattern or 8" rim.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

You'll struggle with 8" rims to find suitable tyres. 12" atv rims are best for big tyres. I'd recommend getting tall atv tyres for the 8" rims though, and not get too large. Remember they get alot heavier in bigger sizes so will sap power and acceleration and increase your consumption alot. There is a balance point. Either 12" aluminium rims with 4x4 atv tyres, or smaller 8" tyres. I'll find some examples. 
What is the bolt pattern? 4x? PCD?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=140942655068
This is the sort you'll find for the rear, 22" height.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

And this for the front:
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=260524039073


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=141027688666
Something like this might fit. Or you can buy blank wheels from quad shops drilled to your size. That would let you choose rim size and bolt straight to the buggy!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

http://traxms.com/ATV_Products-Tire_WheelKits_BigFoot.html
Good example of 12" kits. Can get 14 and 15" kits also but I do recommend you going bigger than 22" so your 8" wheels are fine!


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

I think i'm going to go with 22x11 on the rear and 20x9 on the front, i'm hoping to keep it under mabye taller on the front if i can find a narrow one with decent tread.
For reverse switch i'm gonna find a used factoy one.
I will see how the tires are offroad but I may also weld the rear end, Or just go a solid live axle, I have a feeling that welding the current axle will be sronger.

For adjusting the camber on the front end i'm going to use slotted holes and eccenctric washers. I may also get better tie rod ends for the steering.

But Tires first, and mabye some nice black/grey metallic paint to cover up that ugly Green plastic.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hezsus if you can find out what is inside the axle we may be able to conjure up am effective limited slip rear end so you can run on tarmac also. 
How will you "go solid live axle"? I don't know what you mean. Do you want to swap in a quad axle? Or something out a car/truck?


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Hezsus if you can find out what is inside the axle we may be able to conjure up am effective limited slip rear end so you can run on tarmac also.
> How will you "go solid live axle"? I don't know what you mean. Do you want to swap in a quad axle? Or something out a car/truck?


A solid live axle would be just a solid shaft running from wheel to wheel, same as many racing quads with swingarm suspension


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Ah will you just use a quad axle or have something more creative in mind? I'd worry about the weight of your cart compared to the quad for axle strength but you get high strength aftermarket axles also. 
This might be a good idea actually, to mount the motor where it is under the rear and run a chain forward to the swingarm pivot onto a Jack shaft then a separate chain to the axle. This gives you choice of gear reduction back and good suspension travel. May I recommend using a utility quad axle if you do as they are alot stiffer and stronger for the load you carry. 

For now I think we need to see some running of the cart first. Are those brakes sorted yet? What are you doing for front brakes?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh have a look at edge buggies in Australia for solid rear axle design. Their sidewinder buggy has a solid rear axle. Oh and they have a great front brake design also. I have plans for both somewhere if you need.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

I think I may have to get the front end steering sorted out before I bother playing with the rear, by the looks of things the axle I have is stronger than any quad axle, So i would likley go with a custom axle If i did go that route.
I ordered a stock 48V Reversing switch. The back brakes are working well, too well on ice, they lock right up and throw me backwards. On dry pavement they stop me fast. For front I was thinking hydraulic. I'll have to see how well its stops with the bigger tires. I may not need front brakes either if i opt for skiis on the front in winter.

I'll get a video of the cart in action over the holiday and post it. 

thanks for all your input this far, Have a great newyears!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank you for paying me any attention 

Have a great New Year Hezsus


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

So Since I decided to rewire my tractor its been sitting in the way of getting the cart out for videos, but heres more updated pics, I had to remove the brush guard, which i wasent happy with anyways. so a new one thats winch compatible will come.
I plan on adding a single shock to the rear and mounting it to be removeable/adjustable and stiff, currently the suspension is too soft for anything other than 2 riders max. not sure what i'll do on the front.. may just get higher rate springs.
Still unhappy with the front steering, i'll wait till i have new wheels before i get into it again though.

not really happy with the rear end of this thing.. changes are likley to come (mabye just paint)









Winch all wired up (just running off a single 12v battery for now)









Used vinyl paint on the seat and it worked suprisingly well, and a semi gloss black on the body









Roughly mounted the charger onboard









Underseat shot / reverse switch wiring (still have to run a saftey through the key on)









Keyswitch molded into old charge hole and reverse handle, a combination of hard maple and epoxy









This is the snow that we had last week, Its since went from -20c to about 3 and rainy.. just shit


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hezsus the pics aren't showing... I'll check your link just letting you know


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Hezsus the pics aren't showing... I'll check your link just letting you know


yeah the site I use changed and i cant figure out the forum link thing so for now you have to click on each link for the image.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Only 1 link for me. When you look at each picture in image shack there are link options below. Copy the [image] link into the post and the pic will show. I can't do it on my mobile unfortunately.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

not sure if that's better for the pics, i'm in the process of finding a better site, since it looks like imageshack will no longer be free

edit: EXTRA HUGE pics are now there.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Pics are awesome. As is that snow!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Try using www.tinypic.com. Or use a simple image processor like "Paint" which is what I use to convert my 4000x3000 images to 800x600 (20%). Then you can upload to the forum using the "attachments" option, and then add them as you wish, or just leave the thumbnails which can be clicked for full size.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

Its been a long winter, I am finally getting settled in my new place but with the upcoming wedding i've had very little time to get even my shop together.
Anyways While i was getting new tires on the car I also found some tires for the cart, they should be in any day now.
I had a bit of a melting issue with the stock style reversing switch (the 48v stock club car manual switch)
I wish I would have went this route the first time but I got a reversing contactor. 400a rating so i should be good. I've thought about using the main contactor (since its only there for saftey/extra weight now) as a boost contactor, bypass the controler.ect, right to the motor.
I dont think my batteries would discharge fast enough for it to be worthwhile. plus the rather serious saftey risk of welding the contactor. 
anyone know what a standard (top end) group 31 130ah battery will discharge at?

Also I have a winch, hoping to add lights and possibly more accessories, how bad is it on my batteries to have 1 or 2 discharge at a faster rate? I have 6 lead acids, i'm assuming the single being undercharged will bring down the whole system more than an even discharge. I will look into a seperate battery for those accessories. My reversing contactor is also 12v coil (i got it for a good price) so i will have it wired diferently than the main contactor that should mabye stay in place?

I'm also going to change the rear end out for a straight axle with chain drive, belts are expensive and hard to find here, plus it would require a good bit of dissassembly to change out a belt vs a chain. It has to be better than what I have going now.


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

also a weird question but Could I add a single battery in paralell to another battery in my setup and run my external components from it? I cant see why this would not work, possibly for keeping the charge/discharge even?


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## Hezsus (Oct 22, 2013)

So All seems to be working with the new contactor, I think I will get a 7th battery to run all of the other components off, Probably something small that I can Cram into the same battery compartment. Currently when I let off the gas and the contactors release, all power is basically shut off, and the cart basically screeches to a stop, like there is no rolling resistance, brakes dont seem to be locking up and I know the awkard gearing will provide some resistance but does the motor put the brakes on or something? It just feels like I should roll for a bit more, I think it used to? mabye something is wrong with the rear end?


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