# Please select the most popular LifePO4 battery sizes, Thanks



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Hello everyone! 

Our company Hipower has updated some new modules. 
There are new 100AH, 200AH, 160AH and 60AH sizes.
We also have former 100AH and 200AH sizes.

Here is the list of our most common lifepo4 battery capacity (AH) and sizes, 
It is important that your suggestion would help us so that we can make the decision, can you tell which item you like most? 

Following are AH and dimensions:










Terminals / holes:

new module type:
100AH 10mm
160AH 14mm
200AH 14mm
60 AH 6mm

former type:
100AH 8mm
50AH 6mm

Thanks very much for your help!

Best Regards!
Kevin from Hipower


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I am currently using Thundersky 60 amp hour cells so size 6 looks attractive to me. I think each battery manufacturer will find their product more accepted (more sales) if they work with the existing sizes being made. It makes the product more interchangeable, like the way standard group sizes do for lead acid batteries.


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## ewdysar (Jun 15, 2010)

My interest in EV's goes towards range, so I've been focused on the 160Ah to 200Ah offerings from various manufacturers. But the most desirable format depends on the specific installation, so I would say there is no better answer.

That said, if a manufacturer built cells that, when combined in packs of 4, were the same size as typical EV FLA cells like T-105 or US-125 batteries, there should be a reasonable market for people replacing their FLA battery packs. The upgrade would provide reduced weight and/or increased range/performance, while using existing battery racks.

Eric


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

For 60AH battery size are almost same to thundersky, so it is one more selection for diyers.

For new modules, I have considered BCI group 31, 4-D, 8-D, GC2 and T-105, because it is common in lead acid batteries.

The new module 100/160/200, there are no higher than 9 inch, and they can easliy replace the lead acid, like 100AH for group 31, 200AH for 4-D, 8-D, 160AH for group 31, 4-D, or T-105.

It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.


I'm not sure that's true. There are relatively few lead acid EV's on the road and since lithium will be smaller for greater capacity it won't be that hard to fit them. As long as the height of the cell is the same or shorter, that's the big issue. Obviously the smaller overall volume the better, but that is limited by the technology.


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## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> For 60AH battery size are almost same to thundersky, so it is one more selection for diyers.
> 
> For new modules, I have considered BCI group 31, 4-D, 8-D, GC2 and T-105, because it is common in lead acid batteries.
> 
> ...


Where can I find the specs / price for the 60ah size?


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Kevin,

can you also publish specs for terminals for new 160AH and 200AH cells? Are they threaded holes or threaded posts? What thread size, hole size, etc?

Also, are all cells listed in your table 3C type cells?

Asking a public forum for preferences is a futile effort, there are more opinions than forum members 

When you start selling your new cells you will see which ones are more popular, based on orders.

Also, Thundersky and CALB cell dimensions have become defacto standard in the DIY market, so the closer you get to those the easier it will be to compete with them, that also includes terminals standards.

And, as I told you before, having inventory ready to ship from US based warehouse is probably the best thing you can do to gain US marketshare, assuming competitive price of course.

Thanks for sharing your new developments!


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

hipowerkevin said:


> The new module 100/160/200, there are no higher than 9 inch, and they can easliy replace the lead acid, like 100AH for group 31, 200AH for 4-D, 8-D, 160AH for group 31, 4-D, or T-105.
> 
> It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.


I have to agree with JRP3, I don't think you need to copy lead acid sizes. Lithium batteries can generate their own new size standards because they will be so much smaller for a given battery pack capacity. One exception to that may be the Golf Cart battery sizes (GC-1, like the T-105) because there is such a large installed base of a single size. Those are used in more than golf carts and old EVs.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

dimitri said:


> Kevin,
> 
> can you also publish specs for terminals for new 160AH and 200AH cells? Are they threaded holes or threaded posts? What thread size, hole size, etc?
> Also, are all cells listed in your table 3C type cells? ...
> ...


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

EVfun said:


> I have to agree with JRP3, I don't think you need to copy lead acid sizes.
> 
> *One exception to that may be the Golf Cart battery sizes* (GC-1, like the T-105) because there is such a large installed base of a single size. Those are used in more than golf carts and old EVs.


T105 is almost universal, that size limitation has been what has prevented me from moving to higher voltage 12v T1275's in my one car for more speed.

He does not need to copy that size BUT the size should be divisible by it so you can fit lithium batteries into the footprint evenly, it is a real pita when you want to upgrade to both lithium and more voltage and the darn things do not fit well leaving a huge gap in the compartments.

That is one reason I don't have NiMH in my car right now, long and skinny packs so I couldn't fit them easily into the battery boxes and also couldn't fit enough voltage in as is without cutting and welding Al.

Cheers
Ryan


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> For warehouse in US now is being pushing by Lili He, My main purpose also is to offer the best common AH and size to her, and she would put that size cells in US as storage. but we are not so sure weather new size are wellcome, like 100AH cells, two sizes, need to be desided.
> Best Regards!
> 
> Kevin Tang
> From Hipower


I'd say the shorter, denser, new cell is the better choice.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I really like what you have done with the new 200Ah cell. Do you have energy density specs for the new list?


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Kevin,

in my opinion, all your new sizes seem attractive. You can't go wrong stocking 40AH,60AH,100AH,160AH,200AH cells in US. All these sizes are used in conversions from bikes to cars to boats, etc.

Please add terminal specs, bolt size, thread, etc. to cells documentation.

Any idea of when new cells will be ready to ship from US warehouse and what will be the price per AH ?


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

EVfun said:


> I have to agree with JRP3, I don't think you need to copy lead acid sizes. Lithium batteries can generate their own new size standards because they will be so much smaller for a given battery pack capacity. One exception to that may be the Golf Cart battery sizes (GC-1, like the T-105) because there is such a large installed base of a single size. Those are used in more than golf carts and old EVs.


I think you misunderstand Kevin's message. They are not copying LA size, but they want to conform to at least 2 dimesions of common BCI Group sizes and then let 3rd dimesion be whatever it is based on LFP density.
Current prismatic LFP production has pretty well defined density, there haven't been any major improvements, so its just a matter of compromizing given volume across 3 dimensions. You pick 2 desired dimensions and the 3rd is determined by required volume to pack it tight with LFP material.
This makes perfect sense. Remember, EV conversions is a small market, any LFP manufacturer has to shoot for competition with LA in ALL markets, including Golf Carts, solar banks, boat and RV housebanks, etc. All those markets are dominated by standard LA batteries, so if 4 LFP cells fit nicely into LA volume with some room to spare, its perfect for those markets. But their current cells are too tall and don't fit well, hence their desire to change their molds.


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## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi Kevin,

Your new mold sizes are a huge improvement over the old sizes, especially for the the 60ah and 100ah cells. 
On the 160ah and 200ah cells I think your company should try to match the TS size of H 279mm(10.98") W 182mm(7.17") T 70.6mm(2.78") Athough the new sizes you posted are also much better than the previous sizes. 
As others have noted the terminals your company uses currently are hard to deal with as there are no lugs made to fit them. It looks like your company already plans to change them and I think that will also be a huge improvement.

Best Regards

Dave Kois
Current EV Tech, LLC
http://www.currentevtech.com
253-988-5020


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

david85 said:


> I really like what you have done with the new 200Ah cell. Do you have energy density specs for the new list?


Energy density could be easily calculated as total WH / L

For example, 200AH cells is 3.2*200/ (2.55*0.70*2.38) = 150.64849469199447

Voltage multiple with AH, then divide by volume, the new 200 / 160 / 100 AH module are all about 150WH/L

If use Voltage multiple with AH, then divide by weight, would get energy density, as WH / kg


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

dimitri said:


> I think you misunderstand Kevin's message. They are not copying LA size, but they want to conform to at least 2 dimesions of common BCI Group sizes and then let 3rd dimesion be whatever it is based on LFP density.


 No misunderstanding, I think we all understood the message to mean sizes that allow a battery (group of cells) to be assembled in a box originally designed for golf cart batteries. A lithium replacement for GC lead is going to be either much smaller or much higher capacity than the pack it replaces.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> If use Voltage multiple with AH, then divide by weight, would get energy density, as WH / kg


But you didn't publish the weights


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

> But you didn't publish the weights


or prices!! An approximate price per Ah delivered to a warehouse in US would be a good start (for me).

JR


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I don't expect them to publish prices but even if they do, past experience has taught me that its rarely their bottom line.

Maybe these are not in production yet and thats why a firm weight rating is not available? Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

If I had a suggestion... it would be to make the battery casings dove-tail-interlock. I realize you need space for them to cool, but you could still have a groove for that. This would be a very cool assembly feature (all you need are simple straps to contain them from thermal expansion).

-Bruce


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

bruceme said:


> If I had a suggestion... it would be to make the battery casings dove-tail-interlock. I realize you need space for them to cool, but you could still have a groove for that. This would be a very cool assembly feature (all you need are simple straps to contain them from thermal expansion).
> 
> -Bruce



now THAT is a cool idea, and probably patentable if you jump on it quick enough. It would be a big help keeping the block lined up while strapping. In fact i'll go ya one better... if each battery case had molded in inserts allowing end-plates to be screwed on.... no need for straps at all!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

EVfun said:


> .... to be assembled in a box originally designed for golf cart batteries.


exactly, what I would want is multiple fitting in the 'normal' 8v deep cycle space as the de facto golf cart size, but there also lots of people wanting to fit in the normal 6v deep cycle space too.


d


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> now THAT is a cool idea, and probably patentable if you jump on it quick enough. It would be a big help keeping the block lined up while strapping. In fact i'll go ya one better... if each battery case had molded in inserts allowing end-plates to be screwed on.... no need for straps at all!


Doubt an interlocking groove is patentable. How would screwed on end plates compress a whole pack?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Doubt an interlocking groove is patentable. How would screwed on end plates compress a whole pack?


the groove no, but a groove on battery cells, yes!
anyway.... if the ends are 'stiffened' to resist the pressure of the whole pack, and the cells are locked together, it would be LIKE they were strapped.... but put a fair amount of pressure on the ends probably requiring molding in full width inserts.

hmmmmmm, perhaps molded inserts fastening one pack to the next would suffice as all the middle packs would expand against each other? lots o room for improvement here!


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Terminals / holes:

new module type:
100AH 10mm
160AH 14mm
200AH 14mm
60 AH 6mm

former type:
100AH 8mm
50AH 6mm


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> lots o room for improvement here!


If it adds cost and takes up space I'd say it's no improvement at all


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> Terminals / holes:
> 
> new module type:
> 100AH 10mm
> ...


Cell Weights?


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Cell Weights?


No, It means here are hole on anode/ cathode, and the diameter of those holes.


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## maxvtol (Nov 11, 2009)

hipowerkevin said:


> No, It means here are hole on anode/ cathode, and the diameter of those holes.


He meant please tell us the cell weights.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Exactly, if we are to calculate density we need the cell weights.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes, the mass of each model of battery so we can estimate energy density.

For example, sky energy cells I think are close to 115wh/kg.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I for one, do not care so much about energy density, but DO care that handy multiples of three or four fit in the same space as the floodies I would be replacing.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Weight:
New mould:
200AH 7.0kg
160AH 5.7kg
100AH 3.8kg
60AH 2.1kg

former type:
100AH 3.95KG
50AH 1.85KG


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

hipowerkevin said:


> Weight:
> New mould:
> 200AH 7.0kg
> 160AH 5.7kg
> ...


Excellent, thank you!

200Ah works out to 91 Wh/kg
160ah = 89.8
100ah = 84
60ah = 91.4

Old batteries:
100Ah = 81
50ah = 86.5


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## dexion (Aug 22, 2009)

Kevin,

Any idea when you will have these warehoused in the usa? I need 48 more cells for a force I picked up with dead lead.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

dexion said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Any idea when you will have these warehoused in the usa? I need 48 more cells for a force I picked up with dead lead.


Do not worry, I would let all you know if we got it. at this time we are now preparing the new procedure line, which would be much more producing capacity than former. after that finished, we would got storage, and puts on US as warehouse. At this time we have lots of orders so it is hard for storage left, especially like 100AH


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## pflipsen (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm looking to change over from Group 31 AGM lead-acid batteries to lithium and would prefer not to have to modify my battery frames. Your "new mould" of the 100 AH cells would appear to work well banded together in sets of 5 cells. Each "package" would be just slightly smaller than the Group 31 size and 9 such packages (45 cells) would give me a 144V pack. 






hipowerkevin said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Our company Hipower has updated some new modules.
> There are new 100AH, 200AH, 160AH and 60AH sizes.
> ...


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## newbcake (Aug 5, 2010)

Are we talking about flat plate or cylindrical cell LFP? There's a big difference between the two.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Since the post above yours lists height, width, and length, it should be obvious they are prismatic cells.


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