# CroDriver has a secret



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Cro sure has built an impressive group!


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Great news!
Is there something wrong when one man with a vision can do that and mega-million companies struggle to do an electric midget car?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Well until he starts selling a few thousand units, or even intends to, it's not really the same thing.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

> Is there something wrong when one man with a vision can do that and mega-million companies struggle to do an electric midget car?


No. He doesn't have to sell at a profit while competing with ice-powered cars that have the benefit of over 100 years and millions of person-hours of development and real world testing.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Mate has been keeping secrets from us


Me?! Noooo 























































http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/04/frankfurt-electric-supercar-debut-e-miglia-concept-one/

That's enough for now (until Frankfurt)...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You are such a tease


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

this is very inspiring! Cro, you are the Man!

Frankfurt Motor Show - very impressive.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Nice Mate!  Looking forward to seeing it, and getting more details.


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## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

The specs being hinted at are impressive. This car will set many world records when it comes to fruition(if it hasn't already been tested to such extremes in secret). For all of the horsepower that it has, why limit it to 306 kph? It seems like it needs a 2-speed transmission, although building one capable of handling that kind of power would be no simple feat.

One could easily sink $100,000 into something like this to get the figures you are hinting at(and may have even tested!).

I hope it comes in at a reasonable weight; there are enough 4,000 lb, > 7 CdA(in sq ft) lardasses driving around the roadways advertising themselves as sportscars. I can understand if it ends up being heavy though, as a 92 kWh pack is going to weigh almost a ton. that, and additional weight helps add stability at high speeds.

Any plans to sell the Rimac battery modules?

I am anxiously awaiting to see what it looks like. I am highly impressed with your work and wish I merely had the opportunity to work on something like this. *drool*


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Toecutter comes out of hiding  4 independent motors with torque vectoring do not lend themselves to transmissions, since you'd need 4, adding more weight and complexity.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

wow... cant wait!


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

That's really amazing!
I'm looking forward to be on the IAA in Frankfurt and see that car.

Mate, if you are looking for assistant drivers for a test drive on the IAA...ok, I will forget 

Congratulations and respect for that project.
Kind regards,
Tom


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

This news story has a computer render teaser. 
Also, base price is 700,000 Euros? Wow!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

drivin98 said:


> Also, base price is 700,000 Euros? Wow!


Go big or go home  I'll take two


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Go big or go home  I'll take two


According to the article, he's already sold two so you'll have to take a number.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's ok, I'll need a little time to save up


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I think cro has connections. Heck of a job putting together that team and developing such a car. Great that he is using as many Croatian suppliers as possible.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Hey Cro, make sure you get one on the Top Gear test track, so you can make Clarkson eat his words


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

They'll just pretend it ran out of charge and push it off the track as they did with the Tesla, or start with a depleted battery and drive till it's dead as they did with the LEAF.


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## klmx (Jun 23, 2011)

rochesterricer said:


> Hey Cro, make sure you get one on the Top Gear test track, so you can make Clarkson eat his words


Had this same thought last night, it would be amazing to see on top gear, especially to see how fast it goes around the track.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

Hey, Cro, is your beemer going to be on Discovery channel soon? Only their "Fall season" trailer has a 1-second shot of a green BMW's spinning rear wheel, and the bodywork and bumper have silver scratches (or perhaps circuit patterns) on it...


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh my god, Cro. This is... Only a full size cake model can beat this.



rochesterricer said:


> Hey Cro, make sure you get one on the Top Gear test track, so you can make Clarkson eat his words


You should invite one of them to a test circuit of your choice, totaly controlled by you. Just like the first time they where allowed to drive a Veyron, if my memory serves me well. Would be great to see the face of Jeremy or Captain (Hydrogin) Slow.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Cro,
I've been wondering why you chose PM motors over AC induction for your supercar, it almost seems sacrilegious for a Croatian EV not to use AC induction  Better low end torque, better power to weight, easier control algorithms?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Pretty sure they're BLDC, loads more power density than AC Induction.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I wonder how they compare to Tesla Motors' 70lb induction unit? 295 lb-ft and 288hp. I thought it had the best power to weight ratio. Do you have any examples of BLDC that do better?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Cro's car shows 1088HP from 4 motors, 272 per motor, slightly under Teslas. The torque figure of 3800NM, 2802 lb.-ft, is 700 per motor, but I assume that includes the gearing.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I wonder how they compare to Tesla Motors' 70lb induction unit? 295 lb-ft and 288hp. I thought it had the best power to weight ratio. Do you have any examples of BLDC that do better?


That's pretty dense. Companies like UQM, Remy, Evo Electric have motors that are pretty dense (can't find much public stuff on UQM). They've got double or more the torque/weight.

And the Tesla (according to a couple websites) have 200ftlb (270nm) of torque.

The AFM140 lists 88lbs, 440ftlbs and a peak of 224hp. Not as much HP, but look at the torque. Same thing for Remy and some of the stuff I've found on UQM.

That tesla motor is impressive, no doubt.... but things are catching up and BLDC are getting more powerful and smaller.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> I wonder how they compare to Tesla Motors' 70lb induction unit? 295 lb-ft and 288hp. I thought it had the best power to weight ratio. Do you have any examples of BLDC that do better?


They are more power dense, higher torque, easier cooling, better eficiency etc.

The only two downsides compared to AC induction is price and motor-locking [the wheels] in case of a IGBT/controller failure. We have solved the motor-lock problem so this isn't an issue for us.

Btw. The torque is without the transmission - it's on the [four] motor shafts


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

frodus said:


> And the Tesla (according to a couple websites) have 200ftlb (270nm) of torque.


I took the numbers from the Roadster Sport from this website:
http://webarchive.teslamotors.com/performance/tech_specs.php


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

CroDriver said:


> Btw. The torque is without the transmission - it's on the [four] motor shafts


Hello,
so that torque is @ about 2000 RPM. I would assume the engines are able to spin much higher for a better Power to weight ratio. If so, torque will decrease at the higher RPMs. I've thought that would result in a "bad" acceleration at the higher speeds?

Kind regards,
Tom


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> They are more power dense, higher torque, easier cooling, better eficiency etc.


In what way are they easier to cool, if you can get into it? I'd heard that induction motors are more tolerant of heat since they don't have rare earth magnets that can overheat.



> Btw. The torque is without the transmission - it's on the [four] motor shafts


Wow, that is impressive. 700 lb-ft. at each shaft! That's insane.
Can you tell us what each motor weighs, or are you keeping that under wraps?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

there are no losses in the rotor like an AC Induction motor, there's (little or no) current flowing in the rotor, hence low heat generated inside the rotor.

That and your flux is already present at 0RPM on BLDC, wherease an induction motor has to induce current in the rotor to generate that flux.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Wow, that is impressive. 700 lb-ft. at each shaft! That's insane.
> Can you tell us what each motor weighs, or are you keeping that under wraps?


The company that makes the motor has the following specs for the 2 8-pole PM synchronous motors (400VDC):

Diameter: 215 mm, length: 160 mm 
70kW cont./123kW peak from 5000 to 12000rpm
134Nm cont./294Nm peak up to 5000rpm
52kg
200A rms and 480A max

Diameter: 240 mm, length: 127 mm
70kW cont./160kW peak from 5000 to 12000rpm
135Nm cont./310Nm peak up to 5000rpm
55kg
275A rms and 550A max

Distinctive feature on both motors: extremely low drag torque in the event of a short circuit on all phases. 

I have attached a picture showing the 2 PM synchronous motors. The company that makes the stator/rotors can do a bigger more powerful motor which might be the case for this amazing new vehicle.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Whow those PM motors look quite similar to the exterior finish of AC induction motors by Fimea / Electro vehicles Europe.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

lutach said:


> The company that makes the motor has the following specs for the 2 8-pole PM synchronous motors (400VDC):


Neither of those motors is close to the power to weight ratio of the Tesla motor.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I know Tesla looked at both motor types and went with AC induction, here's there reasoning and comments on efficiency:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors
They conclude that while peak efficiency is higher for BLDC average efficiency can be higher with AC induction, especially in high performance applications.



frodus said:


> there are no losses in the rotor like an AC Induction motor, there's (little or no) current flowing in the rotor, hence low heat generated inside the rotor.
> 
> That and your flux is already present at 0RPM on BLDC, wherease an induction motor has to induce current in the rotor to generate that flux.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

steven4601 said:


> Whow those PM motors look quite similar to the exterior finish of AC induction motors by Fimea / Electro vehicles Europe.


Most EV motor might look the same outside, but the insides tell a different story. The comany that's making CroDriver's motors also makes some nice AC induction motors. Here's an example (360VDC):

Diameter: 170 mm, Length: 250 mm
40kW cont./70kW peak from 5700 to 17800rpm
68Nm cont./120Nm peak up to 5700rpm
64kg
175A rms/270A max

The picture is from the larger AC motor they make.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Neither of those motors is close to the power to weight ratio of the Tesla motor.


How long can the Tesla AC Propulsion air cooled motor sustain those numbers for? The Tesla motor btw weighs more than the 70lbs. that you mentioned. Here's the link http://acpropulsion.com/products-drivesystem.html and this is what it says at the bottom of the page:



*Motor* 

Four-pole induction, high frequency design with inverter-controlled magnetic flux.
Dimensions*: 12" dia x 15" long (305 mm dia x 381 mm long)
Total weight: 110 lb, 50 kg (incl. cooling blower)
Maximum rpm: 13,000
Insulation: Class H, double-insulated
Cooling: Forced-air with variable speed pwm control
Sensors: Winding temp, tachometer
To be honest, I would take the water cooled European made motor any day over the air cooled Asian made Tesla/AC Propulsion motor.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesla no longer uses the ACP motor.


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

lutach said:


> To be honest, I would take the water cooled European made motor any day over the air cooled Asian made Tesla/AC Propulsion motor.


I don't think Tesla uses AC Propulsion motors.

I would agree though that liquid-cooled beats air cooled in performance applications.

Also, AutoblogGreen has a post with some more details and teaser images.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I believe the motor Tesla will be using in the new Model S is liquid cooled, though is probably heavier because of it.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

Tesla uses the AC Propulsion technology since they licensed it and now the motors have Tesla as a brand name on them, but it still is an AC Propulsion motor made in Taiwan. If the Model S does have a liquid cooled motor, it's a major upgrade.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesla no longer licenses the ACP technology and have modified the motor and inverter significantly. For example the ACP system uses the motor windings as part of the charging circuit and requires the motor to be electrically isolated from the transmission with a delrin spacer. Tesla no longer uses that system. The ACP specs do not apply to the Roadster motor and inverter any longer.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

CroDriver has gone a long way since his first BMW project. Cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSjAnl8asaU


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> I believe the motor Tesla will be using in the new Model S is liquid cooled, though is probably heavier because of it.


Not necessarily, liquid cooling increases the power density.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Power density yes, but the overall weight may increase because of the added cooling. Or I suppose they could be using a smaller motor for the same power output with liquid cooling. I get it


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

One thing I would love to know is how heavy 4 motor combo will be? Could CroDriver have asked the motor maker to do a more powerful motor so a 2 motor config. could've been used? He could probably have saved some space for motor batteries. A nice LCG set-up using a transmission like the one in this pictures. Those are also available with up to 4 speed incase a higher rpm/lower torque motor is used.


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

Hello,
what is the name of the company that has made the motors or is that a secret?

Kind regards,
Tom




lutach said:


> The company that makes the motor has the following specs for the 2 8-pole PM synchronous motors (400VDC):
> 
> Diameter: 215 mm, length: 160 mm
> 70kW cont./123kW peak from 5000 to 12000rpm
> ...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

lutach said:


> One thing I would love to know is how heavy 4 motor combo will be? Could CroDriver have asked the motor maker to do a more powerful motor so a 2 motor config. could've been used? He could probably have saved some space for motor batteries. A nice LCG set-up using a transmission like the one in this pictures. Those are also available with up to 4 speed incase a higher rpm/lower torque motor is used.


Those transmissions don't look light, two motors would not have allowed the torque vectoring feature, and with 93kWh's of batteries I don't think he needed to add any more.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

Semper Vivus said:


> Hello,
> what is the name of the company that has made the motors or is that a secret?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Tom


I think CroDriver has kept it a secret and I'll respect that. The 2 companies involved are from Germany so you're right there close to them.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

JRP3 said:


> Those transmissions don't look light, two motors would not have allowed the torque vectoring feature, and with 93kWh's of batteries I don't think he needed to add any more.


The company that makes those transmission has been involved in some serious stuff raging from land speed record vehicles, high powered off-shore racing boats, drag racing, F1, the McLaren F1 super car and a few electric concept vehicles that used the transmissions in the photos. He could've then went with 2 motor option and less battery with a lower weight or with the weight saved with 2 less motors/inverters added the same amount in battery energy to allow for even higher range. Just some of my opinions, but this vehicle will definitely put the I.C.E. vehicles in their place lol.


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Semper Vivus said:


> Hello,
> what is the name of the company that has made the motors or is that a secret?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Tom


With just the info in this thread it is possible to find. Took me two minutes, but just in case it's secret, can not say.


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## algea07 (Oct 1, 2010)

you've come along way in the 2 and a half years you've been building electric cars.


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Computer render are cool and all.... but how about some pictures? Some on AutoblogGreen now.


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

That would spoil the moment lol. The Frankfurt show is only a few days away.


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## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

The curtain has been lifted... 

Http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/rimac-automobili-unveils-1-088-horsepower-concept-one-electric-s/

And for full details, the web site now has the details instead of teasers.

http://www.rimac-automobili.com

Simply beautiful!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

More pictures please! jesus that thing is nice!


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

No words...


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

Very beautiful vehicle. I would like to know if the numbers posted are from actual tests made or just fictional for now? In the article from the above links provided mentioned the vehicle being a concept, but is it a rolling concept or just the usual show only concept? It would be nice to have actual weight numbers for all the components used in this wonderful machine.

Also, if this vehicle is an actual running machine, I would love to see it go head to head against the E-SLS as they both share a somewhat similar layout.

I like the dual motor setup for a true electric sports car and the Rolls-Royce 102EX. Maybe Zytek will use it as well in the future as the company that makes their transmissions will offer a dual motor setup as well.


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## WarpedOne (Jun 26, 2009)

Honest respect!


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Speechless...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Looks great! You know we're dying to see all the specs for components, hopefully it's not all top secret


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

This might be my new desktop wallpaper, replacing the Nissan ESFlow.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Video


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> This might be my new desktop wallpaper, replacing the Nissan ESFlow.


Don't know if I recommend it, has already cost me 5 mins of work just drooling...


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Video


Controllers integrated with motors!?!? Batman could not want for more


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## Techie (Sep 19, 2009)

the question is how many organs must I sell? how much $$$?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If you have to ask the price, you don't have enough organs


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

That is just gorgeous. Unlike the weird-mobiles some of the other companies come up with, that one looks like it's ready for production. I'm sure it cost an arm and a leg (and other parts too) to make. 

Can't wait to see it drive and show that 2.8 sec 0-60 time. I'm also interested in hearing from Cro - when/if appropriate - how he manages the synchronization of those 4 motors; especially over tight curves. I imagine a set of them would be configured to torque mode and follow the other two but interesting things can be done during turning with a setup like that.

JR


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## Wild (Aug 19, 2011)

Has anyone seen the real car yet?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Wild said:


> Has anyone seen the real car yet?


yeah, read earlier on the thread.....

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/rimac-automobili-unveils-1-088-horsepower-concept-one-electric-s/


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## Wild (Aug 19, 2011)

frodus said:


> yeah, read earlier on the thread.....
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/rimac-automobili-unveils-1-088-horsepower-concept-one-electric-s/



Thanks Frodus, you think they would have released real pics on their website first. I hope they release some real road & track vids next.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Wild said:


> Thanks Frodus, you think they would have released real pics on their website first. I hope they release some real road & track vids next.


Crodriver always has the best photo and video footage, I"m sure there will be something out very soon.


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

This thread needs an actual pic. Here is a shot of the (fabulous looking) Rimac stand.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What are the barbell lookin things on the left?


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Here's one with the man himself. Pimpin'!


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> What are the barbell lookin things on the left?


I believe those are speakers.


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Also, great video posted on the Rimac Automobili Facebook page.


Totally can't get it to show up here so I'll just leave this link instead of throwing my computer through a window.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_e2MaUiMno&hd=1


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

He's done it exactly like I (and I think we) dreamed off, the cake eating bastard. And has gone beyond it. I feal some pride he started here among us with his first steps.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Me too..., He must have some great guys to work with .


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Here's another pic from his display 










http://jalopnik.com/5840065/the-1088-hp-electric-sports-car-designed-by-a-23+year+old


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

drivin98 said:


> Totally can't get it to show up here so I'll just leave this link instead of throwing my computer through a window.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_e2MaUiMno&hd=1


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Jan said:


> He's done it exactly like I (and I think we) dreamed off, the cake eating bastard. And has gone beyond it. I feal some pride he started here among us with his first steps.


+1,

anyone contacted the vendor to see how much the motor+controller setups cost?


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Guys, you're on the wrong track... The propulsion system is not sourced from anyone, it's our own design and production...









































































The Frankfurt Motor Show is brilliant! All the big brand are looking at our developments and asking a million questions. Some are very interested in our developments. This are very exciting moments for our company.

I am glad that you like our car!!


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## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> Guys, you're on the wrong track... The propulsion system is not sourced from anyone, it's our own design and production...


In which case, those previously pictured German motors were from VectoPower.


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## leonheart (Mar 2, 2011)

I hope to see this car in a Top Gear recension, it would be a new begining for the HyperCars.


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## algea07 (Oct 1, 2010)

in the product/services section of your website you seem to imply that you might be selling the motors and battery boxes.

"Rimac Automobili's powertrain and battery systems are designed to suit in a variety of applications. The modular design of our components enables us to adapt them fast and cost effective for every customer."

they're probably out of my price range, but if you are planing on selling them what price are you thinking of?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

how do you get a inverter of 1MW in what looks like 1 cub foot . Very high voltage and high frequency , but it seams small .


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

aeroscott said:


> how do you get a inverter of 1MW in what looks like 1 cub foot . Very high voltage and high frequency , but it seams small .


Each motor has its own controller. 250kW peak power for motors. Where did you get 1MW inverter power figures?


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

I keep a little track of Rimac with google only looking for new entries in the last hour. I hope the world wide internet can handle this explosion of new data.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Here's another pic from his display  /QUOTE]
> 
> hmm... I wonder what her CoD is.... She certainly looks quick.
> 
> ...


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

mora said:


> Each motor has its own controller. 250kW peak power for motors. Where did you get 1MW inverter power figures?


250 KW PER motor , about 1/4 cub ft per inverter volume . 4 motors / inverters . 250 x 4 = 1000 KW = 1MW


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## Agust Sigurdsson (Oct 25, 2009)

Just AWESOME


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi. My "EV" Sparks in Google+ is filling up with glowing Rimac reporting coming from all corners of the world. This one is no different but it also adds that Rimac will be building 88 Concept_One vehicles to start delivering in 2013. That is fantastic news for Cro and company.

http://www.earthtechling.com/2011/09/frankfurt-motor-show-2011-rimac-automobili-concept-one/

JR


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## Wild (Aug 19, 2011)

JRoque said:


> Hi. My "EV" Sparks in Google+ is filling up with glowing Rimac reporting coming from all corners of the world. This one is no different but it also adds that Rimac will be building 88 Concept_One vehicles to start delivering in 2013. That is fantastic news for Cro and company.
> 
> http://www.earthtechling.com/2011/09/frankfurt-motor-show-2011-rimac-automobili-concept-one/
> 
> JR


I hope that pre orders are sold out before the concept becomes reality, 2 years is a long time to wait besides technology plus competition in the auto world will change fast. It will be interesting to watch Rimac innovate and hopefully grow to it's potential.


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## leonheart (Mar 2, 2011)

@Crodriver: When do you think to launch a new video about the Concept
One? I'm really excited about the idea to watch an onboard or a simply lap video


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## Wild (Aug 19, 2011)

Concept One out for a drive.

Mate will we be allowed to peak under her dress soon?

http://youtu.be/zkpetEjePUo


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Gorgeous. Hopefully some performance videos soon


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Wild said:


> Concept One out for a drive.
> 
> http://youtu.be/zkpetEjePUo


I didn't think he could drive that slow


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## Wild (Aug 19, 2011)

major said:


> I didn't think he could drive that slow


Yes the car has two speeds, show and GO. I am sure Mate will press the GO button when there is a long long stretch of open road.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Wild said:


> Concept One out for a drive.


Too bad they put so much $$$ into the car they could only afford to film with a few iPhones...

Can't wait to see some HD chopper footage (I'm assuming no camera car will keep up)!


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

There was brief mention of this car in Popular Science. They seem to consider production "unlikely."


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

A teaser vid from Mate:


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Is it just me, or does it look like the car is set up for RWD or extreme RWD bias..... probably just a software config, but it is nice to see Mate actually burning some rubber.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm guessing he turned off the front motors so he could spin the rears.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if he programmed in a button for burn-rubber mode. Since spinning tires is actually a performance failure, I wouldn't think it normally possible in a 4WD vehicle with front motors equal to the rear.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> A teaser vid from Mate...


I guess all the haterz on the EVDL need to STFU now, eh?

This is especially impressive given that Mate has had to overcome more than his share of setbacks - he was one of the many customers screwed over by EV Components.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Didn't know there was EVDL hate going on, haven't been there in a long time. Guess I need to drop by


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Didn't know there was EVDL hate going on, haven't been there in a long time. Guess I need to drop by


Join the fun mocking the old buzzards that seem to constantly circle the EVDL - I just replied to the thread to bring it up to the front (it was hard to find it buried in all of those "news" posts that seem to constitute about 90% of the EVDL these days).


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> I guess all the haterz on the EVDL need to STFU now, eh?
> 
> This is especially impressive given that Mate has had to overcome more than his share of setbacks - he was one of the many customers screwed over by EV Components.


 What bad components did he get screwed with/from??


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

rwaudio said:


> Is it just me, or does it look like the car is set up for RWD or extreme RWD bias..... probably just a software config, but it is nice to see Mate actually burning some rubber.


I read on his facebook page that this particular Concept 1 only has RWD, but the ones that are going into production will have AWD (4 motors). I think he just put in the 2 rear motors to get it done in time for the car show.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Arlo said:


> What bad components did he get screwed with/from??


"EV Components" was a business...


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> I guess all the haterz on the EVDL need to STFU now, eh?
> 
> This is especially impressive given that Mate has had to overcome more than his share of setbacks - he was one of the many customers screwed over by EV Components.


That's for sure but they still seem to not want to believe it. Strange really. Many of us have watch the process, know about many of the setbacks, seen pictures of much of the process on his BMW and still they don't want to believe it. It is one thing to say it once or twice but it keeps getting repeated by the same people.

I'm one of the luck people who got my batteries from EV Components on Christmas eve 2009. I'm sure glad I could drive up to get them. They were actually still unloading the container when I got there.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

GizmoEV said:


> That's for sure but they still seem to not want to believe it. Strange really. Many of us have watch the process, know about many of the setbacks, seen pictures of much of the process on his BMW and still they don't want to believe it. It is one thing to say it once or twice but it keeps getting repeated by the same people.....


Yep! And the list admin himself seems to be one of the biggest Doubting Thomas'. No doubt that some of the performance claims for the Concept One (1?) are eyebrow-raising, but to insist it doesn't exist at this point rather strikes me as being a flat-earther post-Copernicus.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I think the main difficulty comes from observing those who oversell their capabilities in search of funding (GM, Tesla, Fisker etc) and not understanding that some people have funding and want to make an impact.

Besides, how could some kid put together a little organization that can accomplish an engineering marvel that hundreds of overpaid executives and corrupt officials could never imagine?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Well as I said on the EVDL Tesla and others are "crippled" by trying to build products that sell more than 100 units total and cost less than a million dollars. I'm not sure Mate would have any more success trying to build cars that the masses can afford, nor do I think he should try.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Cars for the masses are pretty trivial. Just look at us. The OEMs just want to whine that EV components cost too much, but they never subtract the cost of ICE components and no one is using the more affordable lithiums.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sorry but that's just not true. Batteries and EV components manufactured in the thousands in the last few years do cost a lot more than ICE components manufactured in the millions for 100 years, and while some versions of LiFePO4 are cheaper they don't have the energy density of other chemistries. You can't build a 300 mile range Tesla with a LiFePO4 pack underneath the vehicle the way Tesla is doing with LiCo. You can't compare our conversions of used vehicles where we don't even calculate our labor or pass crash testing to OEM vehicles.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I'm not saying they wouldn't be more expensive, just not nearly what the OEMs want to charge. I've even heard them say the EV stuff accounts for 30%...while charging 2x the ICE equivalent. 

Also, I'm not talking about a 300 mile car, but a 50 or 100 mile car can be made with the cheaper, longer lasting cells. As for crash testing, if the battery is not 1/3 of the car it's not as much of an issue. Just as we do, if you take a crash tested vehicle and properly add batteries to it, the crash rating will not be much affected.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Well as I said on the EVDL Tesla and others are "crippled" by trying to build products that sell more than 100 units total and cost less than a million dollars. I'm not sure Mate would have any more success trying to build cars that the masses can afford, nor do I think he should try.


 Why would he? The guy is having great fun! He seems to have unlimited financing, has set up what seems to be a first class prototyping shop with very talented people, and seems to be following a passion of making a better and better electric car. He hatched a plan to finance his hobby and enable building of very expensive super cars by selling less than 100 to some super rich folks. What's a million when your net worth is 10 billion or more? About the same as $50 to someone with a net worth of $500k. Make it something really special and high status and they won't think twice about buying it. When you are in that league, why would you take time to try to convince a bunch of peons like us on diy and the core curmudgeons on evdl (who still aren't really sure about LiFePO4, and don't bother to stay up with the latest components available) that your plans are for real? I think he is doing very well, and expect he will likely deliver those cars, considering his track record. Like you say, we have all watched his progress. He has already accomplished much more than most of us, so I expect he will do what he says his is going to do.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Mate Rimac on TED. Anybody got an English transcript? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRWob0n_iAU&feature=g-all-lik


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Even without a transcript it is still worth watching for the pictures and English text in some slides. Hopefully a transcript is/will be made. I assume something like Google Translate could make an English version of it.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> He seems to have unlimited financing,


I wish that was true but unfortunately - it isn't. I have invested everything I had into this company and I have sold everything I had to come to this point. 

Unlike the US EV companies (not only manufacturers, but also suppliers) we don't have any kind of government support. Yes - ZERO. We can't even drive our cars on public roads since there are now laws for vehicle manufacturers because there is no car industry in our country - just to mention one of the problems we're facing.

We have invested a lot in this project but compared to other car companies - it's probably the amount they are spending on toilet paper. 

I often hear Tesla Motors' employees say that they're working with a minimal budget. I always have to laugh when I hear that - they should visit us and see what a minimal budget means. 

I have committed my full time for this project (I'm usually 14-16 hours a day in the office) because I really believe that we can make the world's best supercar with this technology. And I won't give up until we have succeed. 

Jeff - I appreciate your efforts to put our car/project in the right light. 

Btw. The problems with EVC don't have any influence in the overall project. That happened in the very early stages when I was converting the BMW. Compared to the problems we have faced - that is really not worth mentioning.


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## jonescg (Nov 3, 2010)

Well CroDriver, keep up the good work man. Your vehicles are an inspiration for the rest of us who try to do it as a hobby when we'd prefer to do it for a living (in full knowledge of the difficulties involved).


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

CroDriver said:


> I wish that was true but unfortunately - it isn't. I have invested everything I had into this company and I have sold everything I had to come to this point.
> 
> Unlike the US EV companies (not only manufacturers, but also suppliers) we don't have any kind of government support. Yes - ZERO. We can't even drive our cars on public roads since there are now laws for vehicle manufacturers because there is no car industry in our country - just to mention one of the problems we're facing.
> 
> ...


All the more reason to have respect for your accomplishments Cro. It's one thing to bet the farm on someone else's dime and quite another to invest everything you have into what you're most passionate about. Not many people have the guts to roll the dice on their dreams. Keep on kickin'! 

For every one company that gets government backing here, there are thousands who can't get a dime, or even a helping hand. Anything connected with government also comes with an obstacle course of hoops to jump through, and a web of strings attached.

I, for one, would rather see you build badazz supercars than family sedans and SUVs...


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## Supergrover (Jul 23, 2009)

Mate (CroDriver), best of luck to your in your venture. I wish you and your company the greatest success. Your work has truly been an inspiration to me and I am sure to a significant number of members here. I would say don't mind the negativity from the jealous skeptics, like those comments posted on EVDL, but based on what you have achieved so far it is evident that you are far beyond that.

In terms of gaining additional exposure (and possibly additional financing) and I can't help thinking that the Concept_One would be the perfect vehicle for Tony Stark to drive in a future Iron Man movie. In terms of capability, exclusivity, and power train what else would be a more perfect match to Tony Stark's lifestyle and technological superhero feats? Someone from your company needs to get in touch with Stan Lee, Robert Downey Jr., or someone who has some influence over the production of these films. Elon Musk already had a cameo in the Iron Man 2 and, while I LOVE Tesla's vehicles and hope to have one someday, they do seem rather mundane for such an over the top character like Tony Stark to have in his garage. The Concept_One on the other hand is precisely something that a multi-billionaire/superhero would be right at home with. I think a petition or letter writing campaign to these movie series producers is in order.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I don't think Iron Man would be the best venue, too similar to MI-4. It needs to be in a Bond flick, where they would talk about the car and what it can do, then show it off. Besides, the only thing the Concept One is missing is firepower!


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## Supergrover (Jul 23, 2009)

I have never seen a MI movie yet so I can't really comment on that. I do appreciate where you are coming from with a James Bond movie and while I could picture Bond driving this, I doubt they would go for it. It took quite a bit of financial coaxing on the part of BMW to get Bond to deviate from his typical British car driving habits.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

There was a BMW i8 prototype in the latest Mission Impossible film. Its only accomplishment aside from fitting in with Bugatti and other exotics was getting stopped at a cross-walk by a bunch of pedestrians. Most viewers probably had no idea what it was or were interested enough to find out.

If Stark would give the car half the attention his suit gets, it'd be a great op, but if it just sat in a garage with other expensive stuff, what's the point?


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## Supergrover (Jul 23, 2009)

Ziggythewiz said:


> ...If Stark would give the car half the attention his suit gets, it'd be a great op, but if it just sat in a garage with other expensive stuff, what's the point?


Giving the car half the attention might be challenge as I think given the proper screen driving time the Concept_One might steal all the attention!  While I do think the car should be driven in some fashion on screen, even if it sat in Stark's garage it would still create a buzz. People would start to wonder what it is and ask about it. Never-the-less, a proper venue would be some sort of action sequence where the Concept_One could strut it's stuff rather than a simple product placement like the BMW Z3 in Goldeneye or i8 in MI:4.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

How about deposits from customers, the way Tesla does it? You've got the working prototype to prove it exists and works, that alone should get some of those who can afford it to hand over some cash. I'd buy one but it's probably not legal here with no rear window, so that's holding me back


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

> The $980,000 superlative is scheduled to make an on-track appearance at 24 hours of LeMans, as well as being displayed at the Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este.


http://green.autoblog.com/2012/05/07/rimac-concept_one-shreds-tires-misconceptions/


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## lutach (May 31, 2011)

You need to bring this beautiful machine to the salt flats and let it all out. I would love to see how fast it can really go.


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## Supergrover (Jul 23, 2009)

Ugh, I just saw a link to information about the car in a forum on Hardocp.com and some of the troglodytes are busy bashing electric vehicles with the usual FUD. I tried to correct some of the nonsense and stick up for it. 

http://hardocp.com/news/2012/05/07/burnouts_in_million_dollar_1100hp_electric_car

This goes right to the comments:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1691669

You would think at least the computer geek crowds would appreciate things like this.


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## WarpedOne (Jun 26, 2009)

Stupidity is boundless.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Supergrover said:


> Ugh, I just saw a link to information about the car in a forum on Hardocp.com and some of the troglodytes are busy bashing electric vehicles with the usual FUD. I tried to correct some of the nonsense and stick up for it.
> 
> http://hardocp.com/news/2012/05/07/burnouts_in_million_dollar_1100hp_electric_car
> 
> ...


 If I can I will correct the compleat bullshit like the guy saying the car is built with focil fuels etc. But I wont go join a new forum.... Sometimes we just have to keep building and lead the way eventualy they will all see EVs can and will be better in every single way!


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## leonheart (Mar 2, 2011)

I read the comments and I felt like I feel when I talk to my friends about this new electric car. There's nothing to do with someone who thinks that only the ICE car deserve to exist and to be showed. I really hate the square-mindedpeople... So after the first two comments I closed the page...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes, well, there's one aspect of global warming that's inevitable...the ICE age is coming to an end. They can deny all they want for now, but 50 years from now it will be much more difficult politically, financially, and socially to own an ICE.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

EDIT: Sorry, double post


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Some more information about the Concept_One and photos from the Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este. 

VILLA D'ESTE, May 25th to 27th 2012. – One more stop for the Rimac Concept_One is the prestigious Concorso d'Eleganza. The number of participants is strictly limited and vehicles are hand-picked. The Concept_One was chosen to compete among other hyped rivals in the category for Concept Cars and Prototypes.

Top automotive beauties and rarities of the past and present are vying for the favor of the jury and the public. This year’s winner of the competition is chosen not by a jury, but by the visitors. Together with the Concept_One, the participants in Concept Cars & Prototypes competition are seven unique and exclusive cars: the Pininfarina Cambiano, Alfa Romeo 4C, Bertone Jaguar B99, Rinspeed Dock+Go, Ford EVOS Concept, Italdesign Giugiaro Brivido and Lexus LF-LC.

Surrounded by these extraordinary and wonderful cars, the Concept_One stands out thanks to its fully functional powertrain and the fact that it will hit production in 2014. The Concept_One is not only appealing, luxurious and classy; nevertheless under the carbon-fibre body it has a hidden, quiet beast. Four electric motors are providing an unforgettable supercar experience. With 1088 HP, the Concept_One can reach 100 km/h from standstill in 2.8 seconds and continue to accelerate to the limited top speed of 305 km/h. 92kWh of energy in the battery modules deliver  enough „juice“ for up to 600 km of range. The Rimac All Wheel Torque Vectoring System (R-AWTV) controls each motor and wheel independently for optimal driving dynamics. The R-AWTV enables the driver to customize the car’s behavior - depending on the driver’s skills and confidence, the R-AWTV can be aggressive and over-steer oriented, or safe and neutral.

Even when the production starts Rimac Automobili plans to keep every car special, handmade and unique. The production is limited to only 88 units, 10 to 15 cars per year. Tailored by the customer’s wishes every car is an exquisite masterpiece.

The glorious parkland of the Grand Hotel Villa d’Este and Villa Erba in Cernobbio on Lake Como will again be turned into a unique platform for the most beautiful cars and motorcycles from bygone days, alongside the most flamboyant concept vehicles of the present. Inaugurated at the very same location in 1929, the Concorso d’Eleganza Villa d’Este today ranks as one of the world’s most tradition-swathed events of its kind.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)




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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)




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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

And it's probably the quickest car there.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

you have a tissue or something? cause I'm making a mess  That is one gorgeous car. It can run on cow manure for all I care, it's just a beautiful car first and foremost. But on top of that, it's electric!

Hey, are those half-moons in the wheels the brakes??? Those are huge! How many piston/pads on that thing?

JR


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Car looks even better surrounded by pedestrians and other cars
Absolutely stunning!!!
I am really waiting for the day Italian and German car makers see how it really performs


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

That is one fine car !!!!! Are there any under the hood pictures ? I would love to
see the perfection under there it's got to be gorgeous ! can't wait to see video
of her really going .


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## iti_uk (Oct 24, 2011)

Very pretty and I really like the drivetrain concept!

I know the claimed performance and range figures are very high, but the car weighs nearly 2 tons! I'd like to see what they could get that down to by keeping the range the same but reducing the power to around 200kW...

Insane performance is nice, but I think this could be the way forward for a more practical lightweight...

Chris


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't think "practical" is part of the equation for this vehicle


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

iti_uk said:


> ...I know the claimed performance and range figures are very high, but the car weighs nearly 2 tons! I'd like to see what they could get that down to by keeping the range the same but reducing the power to around 200kW...


It's the long range that adds the most in battery weight, not the peak power requirement, and a car like this is all about performance, not range, anyway.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

You guys are looking at it from the wrong angles. You have to look at a commercial product from the perspective of the market. 88 cars, total production run, a dozen or so vehicles a year, all handcrafted to the owner's tastes, preferences, specifications. Who are those people who can and will buy them and what's really important to them?

I don't think they care how much it weighs, or if it's practical, etc, etc. They care whether it has what it takes, as a complete package, to be considered one of the best - judging by the pictures, he's hitting the ball out of the park.

It's amazing to me that people can look at pics of his car, having been *invited* to hobnob with the elite, and make recommendations for what he should or should not have done/being doing with it. Maybe Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, and Pagani, need to hang out here and learn something about how to build successful supercars. 

Kudos and congrats Cro!


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I just simply cannot get over the fact that he put this exquisite car together in the short time frame that it appears he has. (compliment, not dig) 
Did some group have this car designed already and the time spent on developing/fitting the electric drive portion perhaps?? It's absolutely SICK. (new meaning, not old)

Absolutely gorgeous as well.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Splendid car Mr Bond ... I mean Mr Rimac. Do you have many pre-orders yet, or is that an international secret? 

(and, did all the designers get together somewhere and decide that ruby red was THE colour this year?)


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9413044/Rimac-1-million-electric-supercar-debuts.html


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Wow! I did not think it was going to go for $1million each. Way to go Mate!


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

MalcolmB said:


> Splendid car Mr Bond ... I mean Mr Rimac. Do you have many pre-orders yet, or is that an international secret?


Unfortunatley I can't get into some details like reservation lists. I can tell you, but then I would have to... You know. 





MalcolmB said:


> (and, did all the designers get together somewhere and decide that ruby red was THE colour this year?)


Pure coincidence, at least on our side. 




DIYguy said:


> I just simply cannot get over the fact that he put this exquisite car together in the short time frame that it appears he has. (compliment, not dig)
> Did some group have this car designed already and the time spent on developing/fitting the electric drive portion perhaps?? It's absolutely SICK. (new meaning, not old)


No, we started from scratch. I have a rule: Never publish something which isn't finished (or at least close to be finished). No one even knew what we where doing. I have started to design the Concept_One at about the same time when I started to work on the e-M3 (BMW). In the beginning it was just me and my garage, but now it is a professional company. 



DIYguy said:


> Absolutely gorgeous as well.



Thanks!

Btw. The Concept_One is not the finished product. As the name says, it is a Concept. Almost a year passed from its unveiling in Frankfurt and the development will still go on for the next year. The final production car is basically 100% redesigned, only a few minor parts are untouched since the first car. Even the wheelbase is different. So from the first prototype (Concept) until the final production car, over two years will pass.


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## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Very awesome design and capability! I'll never afford it, but dare to dream!


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

So did you go to the official Salon Privé website to book Gerhard?


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> So did you go to the official Salon Privé website to book Gerhard?


http://www.worldcarfans.com/113022854455/applus-idiada-volar-e-revealed---based-on-rimac-concept
http://www.gizmag.com/volar-e-applus-idiata-electric-supercar-eu-rimac-concept-one/26479/


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Looks like Mate is ready to start selling components to the riffraff. Who's going to be the first to pick something up? 

http://rimac-automobili.com/products-and-services/components-22


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

I think that is the sexiest AC motor with oil cooled rotor(!) on the world :
http://rimac-automobili.com/upload/tbl_clanci/img_2323_161957.jpg


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## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

Hollie Maea said:


> Looks like Mate is ready to start selling components to the riffraff. Who's going to be the first to pick something up?
> 
> http://rimac-automobili.com/products-and-services/components-22


While I dearly hope that these components will be available to the DIY at "reasonable" prices... I am guessing they intend to target manufacturers and create partnerships.

(Pssssst! Mate - PM me a price on the D-PM-OC-600!  )


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Hollie Maea said:


> Looks like Mate is ready to start selling components to the riffraff. Who's going to be the first to pick something up?
> 
> http://rimac-automobili.com/products-and-services/components-22


any word on rough pricing?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

corbin said:


> any word on rough pricing?


Unfortunately, no. I follow them on Facebook and they posted it this morning. I have a suspicion that it will be the whole "we can't tell you the price because something something" and "if you have to ask you can't afford it" that we are so used to from people who have really nice stuff for sale.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Semper Vivus said:


> I think that is the sexiest AC motor with oil cooled rotor(!) on the world :
> http://rimac-automobili.com/upload/tbl_clanci/img_2323_161957.jpg


It reminds me a lot of the motors Bob Simpson has for sale (also with oil cooled rotor)


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## WarpedOne (Jun 26, 2009)

I have this unnerving feeling that if their primary car business had been doing OK, they wouldn't be offering those components through a website. Those components are uber-sexy and everything but it just doesn't seem right.


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## toyolla2 (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, Tesla has sold about 6450 Model S vehicles so far this year and that's more than Audi has sold A7's and A8's combined.

I rewrote this from RIMAC's website - although the quality of prose is high, this says it better I think. From the Transmision section :

_The integrated pulse-damping system softens the effects of a rapid reversal of the motor torque polarity due to driveline takeup in regard to reducing stress to the driveline components and ride quality._

Anyone want to hazard a guess ?

There is the fact that the front transaxle is shorter - to avoid compromising steering geometry - and therefore has less inertia so could there possibly be a time displacement between the front and rear axles going through zero torque causing the front and rear axles to "fight" each other ?


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

toyolla2 said:


> _The integrated pulse-damping system softens the effects of a rapid reversal of the motor torque polarity due to driveline takeup in regard to reducing stress to the driveline components and ride quality._


We limit the current slew rate (dI/dT) so you won't mash up the driveline when you drive like a loon


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