# Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

But they have blue cases 

Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> They probably just private label Thundersky bats.
> 
>


> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Anyone know anything about these guys? Seem to be Thundersky
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

I bet if you order enough of them you can get them in any color your 
want. Hot pink, neon orange puke green...



> AMPhibian wrote:
> 
> >
> > But they have blue cases
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Looking at both TS and Sky Energy's websites and watching their videos they
show different buildings and the interiors of the factories are different. 
They could be faking it but I'm not sure of the motivation if they were. If
they aren't making their own batteries and are buying TS and reselling
they'd be more expensive, so who would buy them? If they are the same price
as TS is selling their profit margin would be small even with volume
purchasing. There is a possibility they are actually charging LESS than TS
does to be competitive which means they would have to be a manufacturer, or
the worst business people ever.


Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> I bet if you order enough of them you can get them in any color your 
> want. Hot pink, neon orange puke green...
> 
>


> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> But they have blue cases
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

What are they selling them for per Ah?



> AMPhibian wrote:
> 
> >
> > Looking at both TS and Sky Energy's websites and watching their
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >
> > What are they selling them for per Ah?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing should
begin shortly:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-received-quotation-lifepo-0-35-26535p18.html
Sky Energy thread 
Could be a real price breakthrough.




> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

These cells are from Thundersky my latest order from them were blue cells, It
is not really a price breakthrough I have buying them at those prices for a
while

Dave Kois
Powered By DC



The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing should
begin shortly:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-received-quotation-lifepo-0-35-26535p18.html
Sky Energy thread 
Could be a real price breakthrough.

The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing should
begin shortly:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-received-quotation-lifepo-0-35-26535p18.html
Sky Energy thread 
Could be a real price breakthrough.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

You've been getting $.35/Wh from TS? In what quantity? This is the first
I've heard of pricing below $.50/Wh. Someone else has suggested that
Thunder Sky is reinventing itself as Sky Energy and has a new manufacturing
facility.


These cells are from Thundersky my latest order from them were blue cells,
It is not really a price breakthrough I have buying them at those prices for
a while

Dave Kois
Powered By DC



The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing should
begin shortly:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-received-quotation-lifepo-0-35-26535p18.html
Sky Energy thread 
Could be a real price breakthrough.



> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> > The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing should
> > begin shortly:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Woooow,
Cells of 9,000 Ah in size 36 x 36 x 170 cm 350 kg
(about 14" x 14" x 5'8" and 770 lbs)
are these designed for submarine use?

More likely of EV usage are the cells of 40Ah,
90, 160/200, 400 and even 800Ah, though that one
is also a monster of length 85 cm (2'10").
I am looking forward to the test results on the
90 Ah cells.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of AMPhibian
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?


You've been getting $.35/Wh from TS? In what quantity? This is the
first
I've heard of pricing below $.50/Wh. Someone else has suggested that
Thunder Sky is reinventing itself as Sky Energy and has a new
manufacturing
facility.


These cells are from Thundersky my latest order from them were blue
cells,
It is not really a price breakthrough I have buying them at those prices
for
a while

Dave Kois
Powered By DC



The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing
should
begin shortly:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-received-quotat
ion-lifepo-0-35-26535p18.html
Sky Energy thread 
Could be a real price breakthrough.



> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> > The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity, testing
> should
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > Woooow,
> > Cells of 9,000 Ah in size 36 x 36 x 170 cm 350 kg
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Woooow,
> > Cells of 9,000 Ah in size 36 x 36 x 170 cm 350 kg
> > (about 14" x 14" x 5'8" and 770 lbs)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Dave,

If you don't mind sharing, what size pack are you using in you Rav4 
conversions? Also, what motor and controller?

Just Curious,
Roger



> Powered By DC wrote:
> 
> >
> > We have been buy them for about 2 years and have turned them on to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> AMPhibian wrote:
> > The sample cell has arrived, $.39/Wh, $.35/Wh in quantity
> ...
> > This is the first I've heard of pricing below $.50/Wh.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Brian Pikkula wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

These type of battery size are use for standby power when the commercial 
power fails and than they go off line when the emergency generators come to 
the correct phase and voltage levels.

Golf and Western makes a battery that 15 feet long by 8 inches high by 16 
inches wide. It slides into rack panels that may be stack up 8 feet high 
and 24 feet wide normally use for computer server centers.

Each battery only cost $250,000.00 each back in 1978. The plates are 
gold/titanium and I do not know what the electrolyte was. Today you could 
recover the cost in gold that was in each battery.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "AMPhibian" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?


>
>
>


> > Brian Pikkula wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Doubtable -- a very large off-grid residential solar system is generally
around 2000 to 3000 AH (48 volt), and the price around $0.17/Wh for a very
high quality flooded lead acid battery (3000 cycles) already makes people
choke -- I have a hard time seeing someone pay twice or three times that.

Electric train locomotive, maybe?



> Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Feb 20, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Actually, I was just reading today that Kingston NY might be the host 
city for a new battery electric trolley demonstation project. The 
battery operated trolley is made by Kawasaki. Kingston has old but 
still functional trolley tracks currently just used for tour rides 
from the trolley museum. Wonder if kawasaki is using them in their 
trolleys.

Sent from my iPhone



> Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Doubtable -- a very large off-grid residential solar system is
> > generally
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

We have been using 31 - 43 KW packs we were using Zilla Controllers but we
have been beta testing a new controller from Synkromotive. The new
controller is working great, we have put about 5K miles on it and have
really abused it and it is still going strong. I believe thy plan to bring
it to market in the very near future. We have been using warp 9's and warp
11's for the motors. 

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com


Dave,

If you don't mind sharing, what size pack are you using in you Rav4 
conversions? Also, what motor and controller?

Just Curious,
Roger



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Cool. Where do you find the room for all those cells?

Sent from my iPhone



> Powered By DC <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > We have been using 31 - 43 KW packs we were using Zilla Controllers
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

We put them all underneath the car just like toyota did 

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com


Cool. Where do you find the room for all those cells?

Sent from my iPhone



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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Why do you say it isn't much use in an auto?

This beast is a 28.8kwh cell (at 3.2v). Say it can sustain 1C; then if you
were to convert to 200v, you'd get 45A, assuming no losses, which I think
would suit many controllers. And, at 1C, that's 28.8kw of power - probably
more than most small to medium car conversions have to date.

Of course, that would be one hell of a DC-DC converter and there would be
some losses. But, no battery interconnects, and essentially no BMS! And
maybe in floor radiant heat 

Does anyone know if it's practical to do DC-DC conversion of this sort? Or
DC-AC? Also, can it sustain 1C? What's the max C?

Peri



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of AMPhibian
Sent: 20 February, 2009 2:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?






> Brian Pikkula wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

The voltage is way too low
your going to have pretty massive switching losses, and then your going 
to need bazillions of amps to get those KW out and hence gazillions of 
fets ;->

At 28Kw output, that's 8750 amps.

I'd rather a 1000 volt system.
Much nicer in terms of amperage, If you allow for 10C discharge it also 
makes the numbers easy
40Ah cells? you have a 40KW pack (312 cells needed btw)
at 10C thats 400KW output (w00t, <clarkson> pooooerwahh! </clarkson>)
40kw at .35 = $14000US

Made of win ;->



> Peri Hartman wrote:
> > Why do you say it isn't much use in an auto?
> >
> > This beast is a 28.8kwh cell (at 3.2v). Say it can sustain 1C; then if you
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

I think the 100Ah cells are a better setup, and 500 volts would be more
realistic than 1000. The 40Ah cells weigh 1.5Kg, two of them weigh 3Kg,
same as one 100Ah cell but with that cell you get 20 more Ah for the same
weight, giving you a 50KW pack. The 100Ah cells are also the same
dimensions and weight as the 90Ah cells, which makes me wonder why anyone
would choose the 90Ah cells.




> Jake Anderson-3 wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd rather a 1000 volt system.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > Why do you say it isn't much use in an auto?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Those 100AH cells are LCP, as are the 92AH cells in the same case size.
LCP is Lithium Cobalt, whereas the cells we normally talk about are LiFePO4.

The 90AH 3kg cells are LFP, which is LiFePO4

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of AMPhibian
Sent: Monday, 23 February 2009 11:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?


I think the 100Ah cells are a better setup, and 500 volts would be more
realistic than 1000. The 40Ah cells weigh 1.5Kg, two of them weigh 3Kg,
same as one 100Ah cell but with that cell you get 20 more Ah for the same
weight, giving you a 50KW pack. The 100Ah cells are also the same
dimensions and weight as the 90Ah cells, which makes me wonder why anyone
would choose the 90Ah cells.




> Jake Anderson-3 wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd rather a 1000 volt system.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> AMPhibian wrote:
> > I think the 100Ah cells are a better setup, and 500 volts would be more
> > realistic than 1000. The 40Ah cells weigh 1.5Kg, two of them weigh 3Kg,
> > same as one 100Ah cell but with that cell you get 20 more Ah for the same
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Jake Anderson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Speaking of which. What would people pay/what would be a fair price
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>


> Jake Anderson wrote:
> >
> >> Speaking of which. What would people pay/what would be a fair price
> >> for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Jake Anderson wrote:
> 
> > Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >> On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Jake Anderson wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

I can't see where they mention the battery chemistry, how can you tell they
are LCP? On Thundersky's site the LFP 90 and LFP 100 are both the same
weight at 3.2Kg. though the LFP 100 is 1/4 inch thicker. 
http://www.thunder-sky.com/products_en.asp?fid=66&fid2=70 Thundersky 




> matt-255 wrote:
> >
> > Those 100AH cells are LCP, as are the 92AH cells in the same case size.
> > LCP is Lithium Cobalt, whereas the cells we normally talk about are
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

I stand corrected.
The LFP 100 cells are very new (data sheet is dated 22nd jan 2009), and the
graphs on the data sheet are for 90AH cells for some reason
Previously only LCP cells were avail in 100AH.
Sorry for the mix up.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of AMPhibian
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 3:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?


I can't see where they mention the battery chemistry, how can you tell they
are LCP? On Thundersky's site the LFP 90 and LFP 100 are both the same
weight at 3.2Kg. though the LFP 100 is 1/4 inch thicker. 
http://www.thunder-sky.com/products_en.asp?fid=66&fid2=70 Thundersky 




> matt-255 wrote:
> >
> > Those 100AH cells are LCP, as are the 92AH cells in the same case size.
> > LCP is Lithium Cobalt, whereas the cells we normally talk about are
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

I suspect this is similar to the PV industry -- usually a manufacturer will
have two or three wattages of modules with exactly the same physical specs
-- because there is a certain tolerance to the manufacturing process, and
some come out a little better than others. They probably improved the
process a little over time, so that instead of the avarage being 90AH like
they were last year, more of them were testing on the high side of 90AH, so
they started labeling these highest performing ones at 100AH instead.

Z



> matt <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I stand corrected.
> > The LFP 100 cells are very new (data sheet is dated 22nd jan 2009), and the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> > > For direct drive to a wheel (IE 2 motors for 2 wheel drive) Your
> > > looking at 200Newton Meters each so 400NM for a typical
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Jake Anderson wrote:
> > Roger Stockton wrote:
> >
> >> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

I missed the part about that being the torque at the wheels. I thought 
that was 400 ft-on into a differential with say 5:1 ratio.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 23, 2009, at 11:22 PM, Roger Stockton <[email protected]> 


> wrote:
> 
> > Roger Heuckeroth
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Jake Anderson wrote:
> 
> > > Sorry I put the wrong set of numbers in, those were for a
> > > much smaller motor, we are looking at for robotics ;->.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*



> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > Jake Anderson wrote:
> >
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Why do not consider Hipower lifepo4 battery? Compared with our competitors,
we have better quality control, 2 years quantity, as well as fantastic BMS
system. Now from 10ah to 600ah single cells are available. Pls contact me
for the data of our cells. [email protected]
Milo




> AMPhibian wrote:
> >
> > Anyone know anything about these guys? Seem to be Thundersky
> > specifications:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Milo,

This forum is for sharing knowledge and ideas on electric vehicles. 
We welcome battery manufacturers to join in the discussions if you can 
contribute more.

Please tell us more in detail about your batteries. Give us examples 
of where they have been used. References in the US would be very 
helpful.

Also, share information on your BMS. What makes it "fantastic".

If you share this information with us you may get our business, but 
please use this list to share technical information, not just as a way 
to get sales leads.

Thanks,
Roger



> milo0105 wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why do not consider Hipower lifepo4 battery? Compared with our
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Ok,will do Thanks for reminding. 


Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> Milo,
> 
> This forum is for sharing knowledge and ideas on electric vehicles. 
> We welcome battery manufacturers to join in the discussions if you can 
> contribute more.
> 
> Please tell us more in detail about your batteries. Give us examples 
> of where they have been used. References in the US would be very 
> helpful.
> 
> Also, share information on your BMS. What makes it "fantastic".
> 
> If you share this information with us you may get our business, but 
> please use this list to share technical information, not just as a way 
> to get sales leads.
> 
> Thanks,
> Roger
> 
>


> milo0105 wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Why do not consider Hipower lifepo4 battery? Compared with our
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

Your web site says the BMS is inside the charger. 

http://www.haiba.net.cn/english/products.asp?lmid1=92&lmid2=98&lmid3=0&state=show&id=75

How can you control the charging of each cell independantly? Does each cell
have a separate wire or pair of wires going from the charger to the cell?

Jack


milo0105 wrote:
> 
> Ok,will do Thanks for reminding. 
> 
> 
> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>> 
>> Milo,
>> 
>> This forum is for sharing knowledge and ideas on electric vehicles. 
>> We welcome battery manufacturers to join in the discussions if you can 
>> contribute more.
>> 
>> Please tell us more in detail about your batteries. Give us examples 
>> of where they have been used. References in the US would be very 
>> helpful.
>> 
>> Also, share information on your BMS. What makes it "fantastic".
>> 
>> If you share this information with us you may get our business, but 
>> please use this list to share technical information, not just as a way 
>> to get sales leads.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> 
>>


> milo0105 wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Why do not consider Hipower lifepo4 battery? Compared with our
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

jack, you are correct, each cell has a wire connecting to charger. 

rocketeer wrote:
> 
> Your web site says the BMS is inside the charger. 
> 
> http://www.haiba.net.cn/english/products.asp?lmid1=92&lmid2=98&lmid3=0&state=show&id=75
> 
> How can you control the charging of each cell independantly? Does each
> cell have a separate wire or pair of wires going from the charger to the
> cell?
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> milo0105 wrote:
>> 
>> Ok,will do Thanks for reminding. 
>> 
>> 
>> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>>> 
>>> Milo,
>>> 
>>> This forum is for sharing knowledge and ideas on electric vehicles. 
>>> We welcome battery manufacturers to join in the discussions if you can 
>>> contribute more.
>>> 
>>> Please tell us more in detail about your batteries. Give us examples 
>>> of where they have been used. References in the US would be very 
>>> helpful.
>>> 
>>> Also, share information on your BMS. What makes it "fantastic".
>>> 
>>> If you share this information with us you may get our business, but 
>>> please use this list to share technical information, not just as a way 
>>> to get sales leads.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>


> milo0105 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do not consider Hipower lifepo4 battery? Compared with our
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Sky Energy Lithium Batteries?*

We have been buy them for about 2 years and have turned them on to some big
customers so they teat us well. I can get those prices just ordering one
pack for our Rav4's . 

Dave Kois
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You've been getting $.35/Wh from TS? In what quantity? This is the first
I've heard of pricing below $.50/Wh. Someone else has suggested that
Thunder Sky is reinventing itself as Sky Energy and has a new manufacturing
facility.



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