# Recomend me a charger Please!



## Roderick (Dec 8, 2013)

I've been trying to make my decision on which high power charger to purchase.(I know there have been few threads on this topic but no recent updates plus no answer)

My options are set to either to go with:
EMW 12kw - http://www.emotorwerks.com/products...sal-voltage-ev-charger-fully-assembled-tested

or 

Manzanita Micro PFC-30
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/produ...age=flypage.tpl&product_id=110&category_id=14

Environment I will be using them:
- normally 110v 15A home plug 
- 200v 50A fast charger in available from local shop
- Sinopoly 100Ah x 96 (340v)

Can anyone give me simple comparison of EMW 12kw vs Manzanita Micro PFC-30?(durability, after service, reliability, cost-performance etc) 

Rui


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You may want to look at my thread on analyzing and repairing the EMW charger. It is poorly designed and not well constructed, and I doubt that the latest version, even assembled and tested, is much better. Also, Valery has not been diligent in his support for the charger. I have no experience with the Manzanita, but it has to be better than this EMW $!&*^. 

Eventually I hope to get this one working and maybe offer a replacement PCB set and better software, but if you need something now and not in 6 months or more, go with a trusted name brand.


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## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

Don't buy an EMW! I have two sitting here, dead. One works intermittently, only after sitting for at least 24 hours and even then you've got one chance for it to boot up, otherwise you've got to wait again. And one exploded with a loud bang last time power was applied to it. 

The Manzanita unit is more expensive but you'll actually get a solid working charger for your money. 

Maybe if Valery supported the products and was as committed to solving existing issues as releasing new products.


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## bonewibb (Aug 30, 2009)

I've been looking at the Elcon 6000 model TCCH-H192-36 for my project. 

Also considered a couple of BRUSA NLG513 3.3 KW chargers in series. BRUSA does say that they will support any battery chemistry.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

AmpEater said:


> Don't buy an EMW! I have two sitting here, dead. One works intermittently, only after sitting for at least 24 hours and even then you've got one chance for it to boot up, otherwise you've got to wait again. And one exploded with a loud bang last time power was applied to it.
> 
> The Manzanita unit is more expensive but you'll actually get a solid working charger for your money.
> 
> Maybe if Valery supported the products and was as committed to solving existing issues as releasing new products.


If you are located near enough to MD, or if you don't mind whatever shipping costs are involved, I'd be interested in one or both of your dead chargers. 

I am learning that there are a lot of these chargers "out there" and if there are enough to make it worthwhile (and enough interest) it would spur my enthusiasm for making a new set of boards and software to provide a universal "fix" and a reliable charger. I'd like to be able to get some compensation for the effort involved, at least to pay for the parts and some of the investment of time and equipment that will be needed, but I'm not out to make a lot of money. I think I could make a retrofit package for something in the order of $200-$300. I'll discuss that once I have a better handle on the EMW charger design.


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## Roderick (Dec 8, 2013)

after long time thinking and reading alot of reviews, I guess you get what you paid for and manzanita charger does have more pros than EMW.

*EMW*
Pro: cheaper/power, 12kw 
con: poor after service, less durable, service/order time is long, heavier(25lb)

*Manzanita*(PFC-30)
pro: good service, well used by DIY EV, lighter(17lb)
con: More expensive/power, only 7~9kw


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## Roderick (Dec 8, 2013)

Here is an email I've got from Epic car conversion guys(Dan). He has been very helpful with my conversion so I dont mean anything rude but he did recommend me the 12kw EMW charger over manzanita due to how well EMW are made and is better than manzanita...




> Rui,
> I know two people with a Manzanita and they have both had problems. Long wait times, my friend Gavin who converted his Dodge Dart (see photo) has send his back & forth a few times & just doesn't like the customer service (long wait times). Another person I know is Daytona EV watch his YouTube videos.
> Take a look at attached photo we can charge at various Amperages, in photo we're charging at 53 amps & increasing.
> All of these chargers are experimental & not without problems. The guys at EMW sells hundreds of JuiceBox chargers for Nissan Leaf world wide. They are new, but their technology is much more innovative & they sell more product.
> ...


From what I've been reading up in this forum, this doesn't sound so true...anyone got extra info I could use or any opinion?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I've already "weighed in" with my opinion and personal experience. You can see how the kit version of the older version of the charger is designed and constructed by following my thread. The new version, as far as I can tell from the schematics and PCB layouts, is a little bit better in some ways, but has a serious issue with the way the capacitor bank uses two capacitors in series without balancing resistors to equalize the voltage. That can and should be fixed before using the charger, and it may have been addressed by EMW. However, I have tried to offer my professional services to Valery to assist with the design and have been ignored except for getting a box of old boards and a few parts. 

Also note that Dan Singh is an EMW dealer, so he has a vested interest in selling them (perhaps indirectly as part of his kits) and portraying them in a positive light.
http://epiccarconversions.com/

CKidder has done some work on the V14 firmware and it does have some major improvements, but still seems like perfume on a skunk. I am presently well along on my efforts to make a few hardware tweaks and a totally new interface that should be able to utilize the present implementation to obtain a reliable and safe means of charging battery packs up to 10 or 12 kW. If I am successful, the EMW charger has the advantage of lowest hardware cost for a high end charger, and the ability to be upgraded and modified by the user.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I've been using a Manzanita Micro PFC-20 for about 5 years. It has worked well for me.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have conversions with EMW chargers and with manzanita chargers. Both work great. On the build that I am working on now, I am installing a pair of Elcon PFC 5000 chargers so that I can take advantage of the CANBUS communications.


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## Roderick (Dec 8, 2013)

EVfun said:


> I've been using a Manzanita Micro PFC-20 for about 5 years. It has worked well for me.


Thats actually great news for me. 
any details on how much you are pushing its limit?(your charge current and voltage? and maybe your charge condition(temperature when charging).



evmetro said:


> I have conversions with EMW chargers and with manzanita chargers. Both work great. On the build that I am working on now, I am installing a pair of Elcon PFC 5000 chargers so that I can take advantage of the CANBUS communications.


did any of these two chargers had problems? if not, which one would you recommend?

Rui


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

The EMW has to be programmed and the capacitors manually charged and discharged every time you disconnect the pack which was a bummer for me. Not a user friendly charger for folks who are not technically inclined, and not plug n play. It has two toroids in it that get pretty hot if you run a higher voltage pack or lower voltage pack. One toroid gets really hot when you charge a lower voltage pack, and the other gets really hot when you charge a higher voltage pack. If you run a mid voltage pack around 200 volts, they would share the heat more evenly. I have no complaints whatsoever about the price or power output. I have not experienced any problems with the charger. 

I have a Manzanita PFC 40L that I have been using for a couple years now in another conversion, and it has never given me problems. I really like that all you have to do is plug it in, and I love the amps knob on it that allows you to turn it up or down. The charging current is nowhere near as steady as the EMW, and my fast digital amps gauge stays very busy during the charge. I was not thrilled about the price, but no complaints about the charger itself.

I do have a Manzanita PFC 20 in another conversion that is has fallen ill. No matter where I set it over 8 amps, it falls back to 8 amps within a few minutes and makes a lot of noise. I don't know how old the charger is, but I know it was charging floodies for a long time back in the lead age. I think it dates back somewhere around the turn of the century. Since I have only had it for a couple years, I don't know if it was abused or if it has simply lived a long and productive life that is over now.

If I had to choose between the two chargers, it would depend on what the intent was. For me personally, I can operate the EMW and I can get my reading glasses out to fuss with the arduino dsplay and buttons, and I can manually charge and discharge the caps every time that the pack is disconnected, but I would never install an EMW in a customer car where the owner just wants to plug in and won't be messing with it. If it was only a question of price to power ratio, The EMW would win hands down. For a customer or first time builder with not a lot of technical skills, I would have to choose the Manzanita. 

I have gone a different direction with my latest build because I am interested in having lotsa control of the charger via CANBUS. The Elcon is set up to be controlled via CANBUS, and I am forecasting that CANBUS control is the way of the future. The EMW and Manzanita work just fine, but they feel like old technology that may become outdated. I don't know yet how the Elcons will perform and last, but the CANBUS control was critical for me.


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