# where to find high current battery chargers?



## cfckevmccfc (Mar 10, 2010)

hi i have lithion-ion cells rated at 72V 1000AH and i need to find a charger at 72V and 200A+ .. iv had a look around and the best i could find was 100A .. does anyone know any suppliers that may do high current chargers?


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

If you find one, where are you going to plug it in to get the more than 15,000 watts it's going to need, in order to provide that power level? 


The biggest breaker (pair) I have in my box, across both phases, is 50A. The main service is only 100A. At 220V x 100A I could provide 22KW, if I had nothing else turned on in the house, including refrigerators, etc.  If I only used the largest breaker, it'd only be 11KW, and that's not enough.
________


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If you actually need that kind of power, here you go:










http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> If you actually need that kind of power, here you go:


I bet if I called my power company requesting 3 phase, I would be greeted with histerical laughter. My neighborhood was built up with 240v 100amp service. I doubt that I could manage a 70amp breaker, which is as big as my box says it supports but I think it's against the National Electric Code to put a 70amp in a 100amp box and still include all the rest of my electric circuits. I would settle for 50 amps however. I could deal with an 8 hour charge and 50 amps could do much better than that for any capacity I would use.



> hi i have lithion-ion cells rated at 72V 1000AH and i need to find a charger at 72V and 200A+


Wow! 1000Ah Is this in a car? 72kwh is impressive.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

He hijacked one of thos slow boat's from China..lol

Let see, I could put those in my Xebra PK...and get how many miles...lol

Roy


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## 280z1975 (Oct 2, 2008)

Some of us do have service high enough for a 100 amp controller, as my house use to be a butcher shop we have 220v service with 270 amps (3x90amp) service ... so I am thinking I can handle a high power 70 to 120 amp charger for use at night ... but sadly the good ones cost as much as a high power controller.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Wow. 72v/1000Ah. Why not get some performance with the same energy density and make it 144v/500Ah? Or 288v/250Ah?


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Most homes, newer ones at least have a 200A service. I'm a contractor and we routinely upgrade the 100A services to 200A with minimal disruption of service, like maybe only 15 minutes without power while it's switched. 

A typical conversion includes a meter/panel combination outside with the old box fed from a 100A breaker or whatever the old panel is rated at. However the largest breaker you can get that I'm aware of for a single phase residential service is 100 or 125, depending on the manufacturer. I think Cutler Hammer BR series panels have a 125A breaker available. 

Usually we have to run a conduit up through the roof to get the cable up higher to meet code and the whole job typically runs around $1000 at a minimum, maybe $1400 max. If you know a licensed contractor or have someone to help you do it, the materials will cost you around $350+ depending on what you have to do. We use a Cutler Hammer panel and with breakers will run around $225 or so. 

The above cost is not including replacing the cable feeding the existing panel, which to meet code must be done. That cable can be $3 or more per foot. However often inspectors will let that slide as some installations would be near impossible to replace it without tearing out walls for access.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

TX if you installed two of these in series to get 144V you would still have the 1000ah capacity at 144V. If you parallel them you would have 72V at 2000ah.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> TX if you installed two of these in series to get 144V you would still have the 1000ah capacity at 144V. If you parallel them you would have 72V at 2000ah.


 
If you had a 1000 gallon water tank, and you split it up to 4 - 225 gallon tanks and hooked them together, how many gallons of water would you have available for use.

Roy


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Roy are you proposing sawing a battery in half? I really believe there would not be a good outcome to that and he would have 0V at 0AH. But I could be wrong about that.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> If you had a 1000 gallon water tank, and you split it up to 4 - 225 gallon tanks and hooked them together, how many gallons of water would you have available for use.
> 
> Roy


 I would have 100 gallons spilled on my pants and 900 gallons in the 4 tanks.
4x200=800
4x25 = 100

100+800=900

And a few things some here seem to forget, your switching controller eats up a lot of power in the form of wasted switching energy. At 72v if he can then run WOT most of the time he will have negligable switching losses, at 144v if you usually is running half throttle the switching losses skyrocket, this is why many times a car run at 72v gains little if any range when moving up to higher voltages while keeping the same batteries (voltage and size). (driving technique plays a role as well) If you are usually driving in town, 72v is just fine, if your car is lightweight or has the right gearing to get the speed you need, suffer the acceleration and 72v is more efficient controller switching wise than 144v.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow rmay. Didn't know that about switching loss. I plan to go lithium when my pack dies and was thinking of going to 150V from 144 as there is a phenomenal difference in power when it's freshly charged and three or four miles later.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Wow rmay. Didn't know that about switching loss. I plan to go lithium when my pack dies and was thinking of going to 150V from 144 as there is a phenomenal difference in power when it's freshly charged and three or four miles later.


That change in voltage is minimal, so it shouldn't make much difference, also

Switching losses can be almost eliminated if you have enough gears so you can keep your throttle above about 70%ish (depends on the controller) So if you can downshift and keep the throttle in you will gain efficiency. AKA the most efficient (controller wise) place to be is when you have just enough power to maintain speed on flat ground at WOT (or very close to it) but not enough should you go up a hill (I know not what you want to hear)

AKA drive in the lowest gear you can without overspeeding motor to achieve the speed you want. If your voltage is too high and gears cannot make up for it then you are in trouble if you plan on driving those speeds a lot, at least with a series wound controller. AC doesn't really suffer this issue as much.

Also a lot of people who have more volts tend to "mash" the pedal which is also why a slower lower voltage car tends to be more efficient. (aka the driver doesn't have a choice in the matter)

Good Luck.


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## DIGGER11 (Mar 16, 2010)

I notice the big Manzanitamocro charger has the absolutely amazing feature of a "Fully Automatic Air Cooling System".

I wonder what this could be ????


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

MN Driver said:


> I bet if I called my power company requesting 3 phase, I would be greeted with histerical laughter. My neighborhood was built up with 240v 100amp service.


Silly me. When I started getting 3-phase equipment in my shop, I actually *did* call my power company about 3-phase power. Findings:

Neighborhood was brand new when I moved in 12 years ago. Utilities are below ground.

My house has 200A 2x120v service. Power company said that I could be upgraded to 400A 2x120v service with "minimal disruption of service" and at a cost of a few hundred US$. If my panel needed to be upgraded, that would be my responsibility.

When I selected my lot, I definitely *didn't* want the one at the top of my street with a big transformer box in the yard. Well, if I *had* selected that lot, I could have been upgraded to 3-phase service (don't know available amperage) for less than $2k. Since I didn't select that lot, if I want 3-phase power, I'd have to pay to have the lines buried in the ground, all the way down the street, at a cost of $ridiculous.

Oh yeah, one more thing. A friend is building a place at the other end of the county where I live. He inquired about getting 3-phase for his barn. He chose not to get it, because if he had, he would also have had to pay commercial electric rates, which are 2x the rates for residential power here.

...and that's why I use VFD drives whenever I need to power 3-phase equipment in my home shop, and I don't get to run motors bigger than 3hp. 


-Mark


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> Most homes, newer ones at least have a 200A service. I'm a contractor and we routinely upgrade the 100A services to 200A with minimal disruption of service, like maybe only 15 minutes without power while it's switched.
> 
> A typical conversion includes a meter/panel combination outside with the old box fed from a 100A breaker or whatever the old panel is rated at. However the largest breaker you can get that I'm aware of for a single phase residential service is 100 or 125, depending on the manufacturer. I think Cutler Hammer BR series panels have a 125A breaker available.
> 
> ...


This post gets me thinking a bit. My house was built in the mid 80's. When I last looked at my breaker box, which has a 100amp main breaker, the line running into the main breaker looked thinner than 1/0 to me. I expected to see something like 1/0 cable for that amperage. What is normally used? I couldn't imagine anything more than 100 amps working with the line running in to the breaker box. The line is just black cable that says nothing other than 'insulated line' on it, no AWG number or anything. I have underground service so I'm not sure if that adds or subtracts from the cost of upgrading the service, not sure if that requires trenching or what. The breaker panel says it can take a maximum branch circuit breaker of 70 amps, but what could I really put in and still meet code requirements? Could I get away with a 50 amp double breaker in a 100 amp box? My A/C load is rated at 30 amps which is the largest single load, I doubt I ever really use 50 amps total at a time with it running and if I charge at night, I know I have that amperage to spare since everything else is off, even during the day, I don't see how I could be using that much even considering startup loads for the air conditioner plus blower and refrigerator I don't see myself popping the 100 amp breaker.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Just checked my utility rates today due to my moving. My residential rate will be 7.9c/kw and the office rate is 11.8c/kw. It just got increased 1c by the power company.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

MN #3 wire is rated at 100A in the code book. It's not very big, just a bit bigger than a stick pen.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Wirecutter said:


> Silly me. When I started getting 3-phase equipment in my shop, I actually *did* call my power company about 3-phase power. Findings:
> 
> Neighborhood was brand new when I moved in 12 years ago. Utilities are below ground.
> 
> ...


Sounds like I'm not going to get a utility upgrade, I wonder if the gauge of the wire going to my meter is any thicker than the wire is going into my actual breaker box, I doubt it since that would make little sense. ...or hopefully 1/0 is quite a bit smaller than what I thought it was or whatever gauge I have is more capable than I thought it was. I don't see a big power box anywhere in sight of my house  If it's in the realm of a few thousand, I might have to dismiss the thought of an upgrade and just work with slower charging. 4 hour charging of a 24kwh pack(about all I think I'll need for my application) doesn't even need 50 amps from the wall and I won't be running it completely out of power either so I probably don't have much to be concerned over as long as I can get at least a 240v 40 amp branch circuit in there, not sure what the code limits me to.



ElectriCar said:


> MN #3 wire is rated at 100A in the code book. It's not very big, just a bit bigger than a stick pen.


That description is about as thick as I'd say it is. I'm away from home so can't take another look but if I get serious about it I'll take a picture and make a new thread about it.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> If you had a 1000 gallon water tank, and you split it up to 4 - 225 gallon tanks and hooked them together, how many gallons of water would you have available for use.
> 
> Roy


None, it would spill out all over the place when you split the tank


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Also typically the wire from the utility to your equipment is smaller than the wire to your panel. We did a tanker truck repair facility once with an 800 amp service. We ran parallel 500mcm wire for each phase rated at 400 amp each. The utility ran a single 4/0 aluminum underground from across the street per phase. That wires highest rating is 230 amps and that is in the air, not buried, barely 1/4th the size I have to install. But they make their own rules...


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## BMI/LiFeTech (Aug 12, 2009)

ElectriCar said:


> The utility ran a single 4/0 aluminum underground from across the street per phase. That wires highest rating is 230 amps and that is in the air, not buried, barely 1/4th the size I have to install. But they make their own rules...


But that is fair enough when you consider a cable buried underground has a higher rated current carrying capacity compared to one in air.
Also I would bet the cable the utility uses underground has XLPE or other high temperature insulation which also makes the cable have a higher rated current carrying capacity compared to regular V75 or V95 PVC insulation.
(Speaking from my experience as a licensed electrical contractor and electrical engineer)


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

rmay635703 said:


> I would have 100 gallons spilled on my pants and 900 gallons in the 4 tanks.
> 4x200=800
> 4x25 = 100
> 
> ...


My typo, meant to put down 250..lol...I should proof read my posts.

The point was that if you have 1000AH available, you have a 1000AH, no matter which way you arange the batteries.

Roy


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