# [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

70 mile range on a 72 volt GC pack? 100 mph top speed? WOW!WOW!WOW!=I sure
wish I knew where I could find a golf cart battery that would do
that....wouldn't need to spend the money I am about to in LIFePo4 in order
to get a 60 mile range...
Michael B



> brucedp5 <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Traded 2 shotguns+$600 for a VW donor & the VW's ice for a pack
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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dgo=


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Traded 2 shotguns+$600 for a VW donor & the VW's ice for a pack
>
> http://www.tidewaternews.com/2011/09/14/electric-powered-72-beetle-buz
> zes-up-to-100-mph/

Since this was in my backyard (50 miles away) I wrote an email to the editor
explaining why Mr. Turner may have been amiss to his stats. I personally
believe that Mr. Turner may have been quoting specs that he was told by an
EV conversion company. I too was duped into the basic same specs in the
beginning. In reality mine came to 85MPH top end, 25 sec. 1/4, and between
30 and 40 max range. Far different then I was "LEAD" to believe.

If anyone would like to also pen a email to politely let the editor know the
specs may have been off slightly her information is: =

Gwen Albers, Managing Editor, The Tidewater News,
[email protected]
=


Buddy Mills
[email protected]

Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887


Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this
email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional
or greatly exaggerated. =







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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

70 miles!, must be a loong downhill slope and steep to get up to 100mph. Hope 
he beefed up the brakes.
Bill


________________________________
From: Mike Beem <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 10:20:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

70 mile range on a 72 volt GC pack? 100 mph top speed? WOW!WOW!WOW!=I sure
wish I knew where I could find a golf cart battery that would do
that....wouldn't need to spend the money I am about to in LIFePo4 in order
to get a 60 mile range...
Michael B



> brucedp5 <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Traded 2 shotguns+$600 for a VW donor & the VW's ice for a pack
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Gene,
How big is your battery pack? (cell count, size and brand)?

With my bug (see http://corbinstreehouse.com if you haven't already):
* Start in second
* Shift to 3rd at 30mph
* Shift to 4th at 60-65mph

I've been up to 85. I think my theoretical top speed was 95 or so.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > With my recently completed super beetle conversion going strong now I fee=
> l that I can respond directly to this.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why do you shift so low? I have always thought the sweet spot to be high
RPMs for a DC motor. Don't take me wrong as my drive train is a pair of 8
inch motors direct into a 4:44 differential so I guess I actually want to
hear it is good to go at low RPM. Before you ask, yes I am using forced
blower into both motors


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 6:20 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

Hi Gene,
How big is your battery pack? (cell count, size and brand)?

With my bug (see http://corbinstreehouse.com if you haven't already):
* Start in second
* Shift to 3rd at 30mph
* Shift to 4th at 60-65mph

I've been up to 85. I think my theoretical top speed was 95 or so.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > With my recently completed super beetle conversion going strong now I feel
> that I can respond directly to this.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mark Grasser wrote:
> > Why do you shift so low? I have always thought the sweet spot to be high
> > RPMs for a DC motor. Don't take me wrong as my drive train is a pair of 8
> > inch motors direct into a 4:44 differential so I guess I actually want to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

56 cells, 100ah GBS GenII 

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:20 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

Hi Gene,
How big is your battery pack? (cell count, size and brand)?

With my bug (see http://corbinstreehouse.com if you haven't already):
* Start in second
* Shift to 3rd at 30mph
* Shift to 4th at 60-65mph

I've been up to 85. I think my theoretical top speed was 95 or so.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > With my recently completed super beetle conversion going strong now I feel that I can respond directly to this.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Nice; so you have a 17.9kwh pack (56*3.2*100). To get a 100 mile range calculated range you will be pulling 179wh/mile -- that's pretty darn low! The best I seem to get is about 270wh/mile. Granted...I have a huge hill which consumes a lot of battery.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > 56 cells, 100ah GBS GenII
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah I must admit I haven't done the wh/mile measurement yet. It's mostly flat where I live and I do have new wheel bearings all around with Royal Purple in the transaxle, but my 100 mile guess may be a bit high.

Also I seem to be able to get most or all of my cells to sit at 3.4v and the end of a charge. I have the Elite EMS cell monitor CPU that asserts an alarm when any single cell is over 3.6 volts, and this is tied through a reed relay to pins 1 and 2 of the PFC-20 regbus jack. It's turned out to be quite reliable. I have not done an unattended charge cycle yet, but so far I have not seen a single instance of the charger failing to shut off at the proper time. The EMS has cell monitor circuit boards on every cell that have a 0.5A shunt that kicks in if the cell is over 3.6 volts. When the charger shuts off, a few cells will be over 3.6 volts (bunch of red LEDs mixed in with the greens) but after you let it sit a few hours the high ones get chopped down to match the rest.

I also have the PFC-20 voltage trim set to just a bit higher than the EMS cutoff, so if the EMS fails to shut down the charger, it will shut itself down eventually anyway. At this early stage in the game I'm not sure which should be plan A and which should be plan B. Advice welcome.

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

Nice; so you have a 17.9kwh pack (56*3.2*100). To get a 100 mile range calculated range you will be pulling 179wh/mile -- that's pretty darn low! The best I seem to get is about 270wh/mile. Granted...I have a huge hill which consumes a lot of battery.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > 56 cells, 100ah GBS GenII
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> ! searched evalbum for "grasser" and found nothing.

Yes, I know, I've been thinking about it but no good pictures yet. This
weekend I have to do a 1/4inch shim, then stand the drive train on end and
build the box tube frame mating the end motor to the differential. Paint
everything real nice and get some photos. In there somewhere is a week in
Wisconsin attending my son's wedding and visiting my tax man. I am betting
in about three weeks I will get around to finally getting something onto the
album and maybe start putting together thegreengrasser.com site.

Mark

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 85 days 10 hours 34 minutes

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Mark,

The mph I listed are for a scosh under 5000 RPM -- which is the max RPM limit for a Warp9. I calculated the values using my specific transmission ratio and tire size. I have the exact values at home in a spreadsheet; I can look up all the values and post them here. I'm *not* using a forced air blower. My motor gets pretty hot.

What RPM are you taking your DC motor to? 

corbin



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > Why do you shift so low? I have always thought the sweet spot to be high
> > RPMs for a DC motor. Don't take me wrong as my drive train is a pair of 8
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Gene,

Your setup sounds exactly the same as what I did with my PFC-30 and Elithion BMS. I've been charging unattended for quite a few months now and everything seems to work great.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > Yeah I must admit I haven't done the wh/mile measurement yet. It's mostly flat where I live and I do have new wheel bearings all around with Royal Purple in the transaxle, but my 100 mile guess may be a bit high.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Corbin,

That's very encouraging. Which one do you use for plan A - PFC voltage shutoff, or BMS monitor shutoff?

I tossed and turned for a while trying to decide what to do about using either a BMS or a BMS (M for Monitor or Management), and finally decided to just bite the bullet and get something and make it work one way or another. Getting an out-of-box solution was icing on the cake. It's not without teething pains but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Once everything is worked out I will provide the details. Hint: both the Zilla and the Manzanita are very noisy. Another hint: AC line power filters work with DC too.

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

Hi Gene,

Your setup sounds exactly the same as what I did with my PFC-30 and Elithion BMS. I've been charging unattended for quite a few months now and everything seems to work great.

corbin



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > Yeah I must admit I haven't done the wh/mile measurement yet. It's mostly flat where I live and I do have new wheel bearings all around with Royal Purple in the transaxle, but my 100 mile guess may be a bit high.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Being a single speed I vaguely remember that 5,500 is somewhere between 70
and 80mph. When I get the time to put thegreengrasser.com site together I
will finally have a place to keep all my data. Like I said, hopefully in a
few weeks I will have some time. Right now I get about 8 hours a week to
sneak in some time on the car and the drive train is sucking up a lot of
special cutting, welding, rotary table grinding, etc. Nice results though. I
have a pair of 0 to 45 volt 25 amp power supplies and with the motors
attached to each other and some clamping to the differential I can run it up
and down in rpm with no vibrations, harmonics or otherwise. So far very
nice.


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 6:28 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

Hi Mark,

The mph I listed are for a scosh under 5000 RPM -- which is the max RPM
limit for a Warp9. I calculated the values using my specific transmission
ratio and tire size. I have the exact values at home in a spreadsheet; I can
look up all the values and post them here. I'm *not* using a forced air
blower. My motor gets pretty hot.

What RPM are you taking your DC motor to? 

corbin



> Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > Why do you shift so low? I have always thought the sweet spot to be high
> > RPMs for a DC motor. Don't take me wrong as my drive train is a pair of 8
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like the system I've got where the charger normally shuts off by itself
and the BMS is there as a backup in case something goes wrong. I also know
the BMS can shut off the charger. When I first got the car, the pack was
unbalanced and the BMS always stopped the charge. I also have a test switch
to force an alert condition and shut off the charger. I use that when I'm
going to pull the plug while still pulling full power during a charge. I
figure it's not a good idea to pull the plug out of the wall while drawing
15A! That also gives me a good way to test that the AC Solid State Relay is
still working OK.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Gene Stopp
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:17 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph
> c:5Hrs
> 
> Yeah I must admit I haven't done the wh/mile measurement yet. It's mostly
> flat where I live and I do have new wheel bearings all around with Royal
> Purple in the transaxle, but my 100 mile guess may be a bit high.
> 
> Also I seem to be able to get most or all of my cells to sit at 3.4v and
the end
> of a charge. I have the Elite EMS cell monitor CPU that asserts an alarm
when
> any single cell is over 3.6 volts, and this is tied through a reed relay
to pins 1
> and 2 of the PFC-20 regbus jack. It's turned out to be quite reliable. I
have not
> done an unattended charge cycle yet, but so far I have not seen a single
> instance of the charger failing to shut off at the proper time. The EMS
has cell
> monitor circuit boards on every cell that have a 0.5A shunt that kicks in
if the
> cell is over 3.6 volts. When the charger shuts off, a few cells will be
over 3.6
> volts (bunch of red LEDs mixed in with the greens) but after you let it
sit a
> few hours the high ones get chopped down to match the rest.
> 
> I also have the PFC-20 voltage trim set to just a bit higher than the EMS
> cutoff, so if the EMS fails to shut down the charger, it will shut itself
down
> eventually anyway. At this early stage in the game I'm not sure which
should
> be plan A and which should be plan B. Advice welcome.
> 


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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Gene,

(not quite sure what Gottdi was objecting to...!)

I started out clutch-less on my 5 gear manual g/boxed van conversion =

and whilst it was ok to drive, changing gear on the move was always =

rather complex and not ideal eg if you were trying to slow to take a =

side road with waiting for the gears to sort themselves out (helping =

with repeated blipping of the throttle to slowly and safely bring the =

motor speed up) indicating and steering all going on together. =

Putting the clutch back in made it so much easier to drive and =

importantly, made the van drivable for anyone.

One tip I do have for you reading about your driving technique =

concerns the scenario when you have to come to a stop from 40 or so =

mph, at a stop light say. Rather than use the clutch at all, just slow =

to a stop in whatever gear you are in (using the brakes if necessary) =

and just as your speed comes to a slow walking pace and without using =

the clutch just move the gear stick to neutral and then apply very =

light pressure into 1st gear until it pops into 1st as the vehicle =

comes almost to a complete stop.

This avoids the clutch being used at all as, of course, with the motor =

stationary and in 1st gear you are ready to just press the throttle to =

move off again. If you miss-time it and it won't go into 1st whilst =

stationary, pressing the clutch is usually enough to tickle the cogs =

sufficiently to get it into gear.

As you say it all takes a bit of getting used to. I never used 1st =

gear (except on a really steep hill) as it had an overall ratio of =

16:1! I still keep on trying to set off in second when I drive ICE =

vehicles at work.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk





> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > With my recently completed super beetle conversion going strong now =
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > Yeah I must admit I haven't done the wh/mile measurement yet. It's
> > mostly flat where I live and I do have new wheel bearings all around
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Martin,

I object to a few items. One, he says 12 Golf Cart style batteries. I know
that he's says he gets 100 mph and with that information I must assume he is
not using a 72 volt system of 6 volt batteries. That leaves a system of 144
volts using 12 volt batteries. He has a small battery pack. Even the best
built Bug using lead acid has not seen 100 mph. I could barely push my Ghia
to 75 mph. Once pushing it hard and letting it just run for a few miles I
got like 82 mph. The other is the miles. No way no how at normal stop and go
driving in town or short freeway jaunts could he get 70 miles. The only way
would be at 20 mph or so and zero stops and starts. And that is a huge
maybe. Real huge maybe. With my car stuffed to the gills with 16 6 volt
batteries and only 96 volts I could only attain a range of 25 miles at 45 to
55 mph with almost no stops and starts. I tried and tried and tried to get
more and no matter what I did I could not. I think maybe I got 30 once but
my pack was quite weak. My Ghia had good acceleration and performance but
lacked real high speeds and totally lacked distance. The biggest problem was
when I first started on my adventure of building an EV. I looked at just
about every EV listed in the EVDL and then some. Many or most had CLAIMS of
100 miles or 80 miles or 120 miles, some with no claims and some stating
that they only went 30 miles but still had plenty left so assumed another 30
miles. To me, that was absolutely perfect. I can do that, so I learned what
I needed and found the parts I needed and put together a nice electric Ghia
with the help of a bunch of folks around here and elsewhere. The first thing
that hit home was the DISTANCE claims. Just total bogus. Most are BS. With
lead you get few miles. What I found was that most of the claims were from
folks just like me. OH I went 30 miles. After sitting a couple minutes the
voltage gauge says that they still have pretty good voltage but that is a
static voltage after running for awhile but under load that voltage is not
what reads on the gauge static. You don't really have 30 miles left. You
have maybe 2 if your lucky. Now if you want to make the claim of 50 or 60
miles which many did they failed to mention that they were only going as
fast as a normal GOLF CART. Jeeze, if I had to go that slow to attain 50
miles I might as well go spend a few bucks on a GOLF CART and drive that. It
would be cheaper. No, I needed a car that would take me to work and back on
the freeway at 55 mph and lead acid batteries would just not do the trick.
Period. My commute is 22 miles each way. Not unattainable, but you need the
correct equipment. LITHIUM. During all this time the OEM's were coming out
with claims of having another EV ready to by. The only one that attained
that goal was Nissan. While I am still in the process of building a couple
EV's I also decided to BUY a Nissan Leaf. I did and it makes my commute with
no trouble to work and home without charging with some power to spare. At
freeway speeds of even 55 mph you can suck the amps right out of even a good
lithium battery. Lead just won't do. I now have an excellent Lithium Powered
Vehicle. Even Nissan's claim was no better than those on the EVDL but at
least it will take me to work and back and then some per charge. It was easy
to figure it would not make the claim Nissan gave unless I drove again at
GOLF CART speeds. Who the hell wants a GOLF CART for the FREEWAY? Not me. 

With lifepo4 cells you can pretty much figure about 1 mile per 100ah cell.
Give or take a bit but it is close. That is not at Golf Cart speeds either
but combined city/freeway. 

So in short my BEEF is with CLAIMS that just are not founded. I wish that
all those who posted on EVDL would revamp their claims rather than leave the
Bogus junk that was posted years ago. I bet many just abandoned their
projects and went back to gas. Never to be heard from again. I surly do not
see over 2000 folks on this forum actively participating. Not even close.
Where did they all go? They gave up. 

They are those that will say electric is just not ready yet. With claims of
100 miles and you might only get 30 then I'd have to agree. 

My Leaf is an 80 mile range car. It is not tiny and only has a 24kw pack.
That is small too. It should be larger. There is plenty of room for at east
another 12kw. Then I'd have a 120 mile car. That would be good. 

My car is quick and fun. Even with limited range it is great. The 240
charger helps a bunch. I'm getting 4 miles per kWh. I started at about 3.2
miles per kWh and best was averaged at 4.2 mile per kwh. For a not so tiny
vehicle that is pretty darn good. That is at 55 to 60 mph speeds too. I
drive mostly freeway daily.

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-VA-man-s-72-VW-conversion-r-70mi-ts-100mph-c-5Hrs-tp3814632p3818078.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 16 Sep 2011 at 6:24, gottdi wrote:
> 
> > ... he says 12 Golf Cart style batteries.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Right on, Pete! We have much common experience.



> gottdi wrote:
> > With lifepo4 cells you can pretty much figure about 1 mile per 100ah cell.
> > Give or take a bit but it is close. That is not at Golf Cart speeds either
> > but combined city/freeway.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > The mph I listed are for a scosh under 5000 RPM -- which is the max RPM
> > limit for a Warp9. I calculated the values using my specific transmission
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't pull the plug either while the charger is on.

One time I parked the car and left it in gear and did not put on the e-brake (old stick shift habit). Our driveway is on a very slight hill (can't tell by looking) and I was sitting in the house at the computer, when I heard a loud noise outside. I went outside and the car was on the lawn up against a brick wall with the charger cord pulled out of the wall in the garage and strung along behind it. The car was stopped by the tow hitch bracket getting hung up on a tree root - no damage at all! When I plugged it back in, there was a pretty hefty spark on the extension cord.

I turn the charger on by its breaker with the amps knob all the way down, then I turn the amps up to just below the wall breaker rating. I turn it off by turning the amps all the way down and turning off the breaker on the charger. The extension cord (50 foot, 12ga) does get warm after a while.

Things I've learned:

* Connecting or disconnecting the AC power cord with the charger on will cause a big spark
* Putting the car in gear will not hold it, always use the parking brake. I knew this already, obviously there is no compression on a DC motor (duh!). Old habits are hard to break.
* The rolling resistance must be pretty low, our driveway just isn't that slanted.

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Nickerson
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 9:09 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

I like the system I've got where the charger normally shuts off by itself and the BMS is there as a backup in case something goes wrong. I also know the BMS can shut off the charger. When I first got the car, the pack was unbalanced and the BMS always stopped the charge. I also have a test switch to force an alert condition and shut off the charger. I use that when I'm going to pull the plug while still pulling full power during a charge. I figure it's not a good idea to pull the plug out of the wall while drawing 15A! That also gives me a good way to test that the AC Solid State Relay is still working OK.

Mike


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Martin,

You guys across the pond are lucky, you have roundabouts, right?

I cringe whenever I see my kinetic energy frizzled away as heat for no good reason other than just obeying the traffic rules. However I am aware that we EV drivers need to uphold our good citizen image 

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin WINLOW
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 3:28 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs

Hi Gene,

(not quite sure what Gottdi was objecting to...!)

I started out clutch-less on my 5 gear manual g/boxed van conversion and whilst it was ok to drive, changing gear on the move was always rather complex and not ideal eg if you were trying to slow to take a side road with waiting for the gears to sort themselves out (helping with repeated blipping of the throttle to slowly and safely bring the 
motor speed up) indicating and steering all going on together. 
Putting the clutch back in made it so much easier to drive and importantly, made the van drivable for anyone.

One tip I do have for you reading about your driving technique concerns the scenario when you have to come to a stop from 40 or so mph, at a stop light say. Rather than use the clutch at all, just slow to a stop in whatever gear you are in (using the brakes if necessary) and just as your speed comes to a slow walking pace and without using the clutch just move the gear stick to neutral and then apply very light pressure into 1st gear until it pops into 1st as the vehicle comes almost to a complete stop.

This avoids the clutch being used at all as, of course, with the motor stationary and in 1st gear you are ready to just press the throttle to move off again. If you miss-time it and it won't go into 1st whilst stationary, pressing the clutch is usually enough to tickle the cogs sufficiently to get it into gear.

As you say it all takes a bit of getting used to. I never used 1st gear (except on a really steep hill) as it had an overall ratio of 
16:1! I still keep on trying to set off in second when I drive ICE 
vehicles at work.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk





> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > With my recently completed super beetle conversion going strong now I
> > feel that I can respond directly to this.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I do plan to do the close-to-home pack discharge test one day, when I have some time and my wife is at home with the tow bar in her truck.

One of my thoughts is to connect the undervoltage alarm on the battery EMS computer to the valet mode input on the Hairball, to force turtle mode if a cell goes too low. That or a sonalert in the cab. Or both.

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin WINLOW
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 3:48 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs




> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > Yeah I must admit I haven't done the wh/mile measurement yet. It's
> > mostly flat where I live and I do have new wheel bearings all around
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here are some real values:

1972 VW Karmann Ghia

12x Group 31 12V Deka Gels

Top Speed: 87mph

Actual longest drive, city/highway mix: 33miles; I wouldn't call it limping
home, but any less acceleration would have made me ridiculously
uncomfortable.
Longest daily drive (two months, five days a week, in the summer, charge at
work) : 20 miles

Controller: 144-156V 1000A Logisystems; doesn't push out more than 600A, but
I think this may be a limittation of the Gels.
Motor: Warp9
Transmission: stock 4 speed, with clutch, CanEV adaptor. I never use 1st.
I typically shift early to increase accelleration. I select the right gear
to cruise at ~3500-4000RPM.


In my humble opinion, there is NO WAY the news article is correct.






> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Right on, Pete! We have much common experience.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > corbin dunn wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> gottdi wrote:
> 
> >
> > With lifepo4 cells you can pretty much figure about 1 mile per 100ah cell.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> >
> > On Sep 16, 2011, at 6:24 AM, gottdi wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:26:32PM -0700, corbin dunn wrote:
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Think light weight transaxle oil.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > In reality, I easily get a 70 mile range, and 100 is doable (specifically, I drove 70 miles one day to 38% SOC). More would be doable if I didn't live in the mountains. I now have two neighbors with Leafs; I should see what range they are getting (I'm guessing 70-80 based on my experience talking to others with leafs in the bay area).
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 02:54:11PM -0700, corbin dunn wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Joe wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Willie McKemie <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Think light weight transaxle oil.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > Hi Willie,
> > I haven't done a capacity test; has anyone documented a safe way to do it and accurately measure the amp-hours? FWIW, I've probably never taken my cells less than 30% SOC (once I thought I took them to 20%, but it was due to a 12v power failure resetting my BMS).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

FWIW a SunPro tach from Pep Boys in 4-cylinder mode driven by the tachometer output from a Hairball is dead-on accurate, or at least matches the Hairball console DAQ4 output hex value very well.

- Gene


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 11:54 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph c:5Hrs



> corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > The mph I listed are for a scosh under 5000 RPM -- which is the max
> > RPM limit for a Warp9. I calculated the values using my specific
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a pretty simple solution for the big spark when trying to unplug with
the charger active. I charge at work and sometimes leave for lunch before
the charge cycle is finished.

I have a test button next to the twistlock connector under the fuel filler
door. When I push that, it triggers a relay to open up the serial daisy
chain between the BMS modules and the BMS control board. The relay normally
defaults to off. When I push the button, that simulates a BMS alert to the
control board. A couple of seconds later, the control board signals the
alert, sounds a tone and turns of the AC SSR controlling AC power into the
charger.

Two things accomplished: First, I just tested my backup system to make sure
it works OK. Second, the charger is now off and I can unplug without any
sparking.

I also have a test button on the side of the electrical box for similar
reasons. This lets me reset the charger cycle without walking to the other
end of the car. Same relay; two inputs that can trigger it.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Gene Stopp
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 1:00 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph
> c:5Hrs
> 
> I don't pull the plug either while the charger is on.
> 
> One time I parked the car and left it in gear and did not put on the
e-brake
> (old stick shift habit). Our driveway is on a very slight hill (can't tell
by looking)
> and I was sitting in the house at the computer, when I heard a loud noise
> outside. I went outside and the car was on the lawn up against a brick
wall
> with the charger cord pulled out of the wall in the garage and strung
along
> behind it. The car was stopped by the tow hitch bracket getting hung up on
a
> tree root - no damage at all! When I plugged it back in, there was a
pretty
> hefty spark on the extension cord.
> 
> I turn the charger on by its breaker with the amps knob all the way down,
> then I turn the amps up to just below the wall breaker rating. I turn it
off by
> turning the amps all the way down and turning off the breaker on the
> charger. The extension cord (50 foot, 12ga) does get warm after a while.
> 
> Things I've learned:
> 
> * Connecting or disconnecting the AC power cord with the charger on will
> cause a big spark
> * Putting the car in gear will not hold it, always use the parking brake.
I knew
> this already, obviously there is no compression on a DC motor (duh!). Old
> habits are hard to break.
> * The rolling resistance must be pretty low, our driveway just isn't that
> slanted.
> 
> - Gene
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Nickerson
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 9:09 PM
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph
> c:5Hrs
> 
> I like the system I've got where the charger normally shuts off by itself
and
> the BMS is there as a backup in case something goes wrong. I also know
the
> BMS can shut off the charger. When I first got the car, the pack was
> unbalanced and the BMS always stopped the charge. I also have a test
> switch to force an alert condition and shut off the charger. I use that
when
> I'm going to pull the plug while still pulling full power during a charge.
I figure
> it's not a good idea to pull the plug out of the wall while drawing 15A!
That
> also gives me a good way to test that the AC Solid State Relay is still
working
> OK.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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|
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I agree, that estimate works well in my experience. My car is at
www.evalbum.com/2778.

It has 45 100Ah cells. I generally drive it 23 miles each way on a commute
and charge at work. When measured, I'm getting about 250 wh/mile, measured
at the wall. Obviously, a little less at the battery, due to charger
losses.

This is about 2/3 at 55-60 MPH on the highway and 1/3 stop and go on a 45
MPH road as I get into the city and heavier traffic. I think that's pretty
realistic for calculating range.

I have driven the car 46 miles a couple of times. Once when I forgot my
charger cord (oops!) and once more just to see what it could do. I had some
range left, but don't know for sure how much. I need to push it to the
limit once just to find out. I think it will be pretty close to 60 miles or
so.

I also drove 55 miles once which was about 3 miles too much! However, that
was before I got my pack balanced and I had a couple of cells 20-25% lower
in capacity than the best cells. All cells are now top balanced and I can
hear my alert so I feel more willing to push the pack and see what it can
do.

I have pushed the car to 70 MPH and it did that comfortably. I am planning
to see how it holds 80+ on the freeway soon. It only draws about 100A at 60
MPH.

I do have LRR tires and ATF in the manual transmission. However, the front
brakes are dragging. Going into the shop to fix that on Monday.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Willie McKemie
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 5:11 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VA man's '72 VW conversion r:70mi ts:100mph
> c:5Hrs
> 
>


> corbin dunn wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sep 16, 2011, at 6:24 AM, gottdi wrote:
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Off-topic I know but Gene asked and it would be rude to ignore him... 
Yes we have roundabouts and lots of them. They are a good idea - in 
theory - allowing vehicles to negotiate a junction with out stopping, 
basically. Unfortunately, people being people drive round them as 
fast as possible rather than at a sensible speed. This slows the 
junction down as a whole as the faster people use them, the slower it 
works because people waiting at the give-way lines are hesitant to 
pull out in front of a fast moving car. If people would just slow 
down, look well ahead and plan their arrival at the give-way line to 
merge with the slower traffic on the roundabout, the whole thing would 
be much more successful for all . Dream on.

MW




> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Gene, I take it from that that you don't have a forced, hardwired cell 
reversal prevention mechanism installed currently? I do think that 
with lithium this is an absolute necessity. You might be disciplined 
enough to react appropriately to an alarm or light on its own but what 
about someone else? MW



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > I do plan to do the close-to-home pack discharge test one day, when
> > I have some time and my wife is at home with the tow bar in her truck.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

"With lifepo4 cells you can pretty much figure about 1 mile per 100ah cell.
Give or take a bit but it is close. That is not at Golf Cart speeds either
but combined city/freeway."

Invert and multiply by 3.2V nominal cell voltage and its the old 300Wh/mile
rule of thumb for your "average" sedan, actually 320Wh/mile in this case. 
Bit high for my small car which uses about 200Wh/mile or a bit less for
50/50 highway/secondary road driving, about 215Wh/mile from the wall. Bit
low maybe for a pickup truck.


"My Leaf is an 80 mile range car. It is not tiny and only has a 24kw pack." 

That agrees with what a local guy who owns one told me for around 60-70%%
highway driving at 55 mph. Also approximately agrees with my 20.76kWh pack
and smaller lighter car which gets about 75 mile range under those
conditions.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-VA-man-s-72-VW-conversion-r-70mi-ts-100mph-c-5Hrs-tp3814632p3822305.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That was my thought with the Valet mode input. However that would hijack that function to be "turtle mode" rather than "teenager mode" and I do have teenagers that are getting ready to drive soon. Can you elaborate on " absolute necessity"?

Best Regards,

- Gene


Gene, I take it from that that you don't have a forced, hardwired cell reversal prevention mechanism installed currently? I do think that with lithium this is an absolute necessity. You might be disciplined enough to react appropriately to an alarm or light on its own but what about someone else? MW



> Gene Stopp wrote:
> 
> > I do plan to do the close-to-home pack discharge test one day, when I
> > have some time and my wife is at home with the tow bar in her truck.
> ...


----------

