# Platinum-free Fuel Cell Catalysts



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Oh Great...Carbon Nanotubes that'll make it really cheap huh?


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

even if the fuel cell itself were free ... it cost more to operate ... a fuel cell vehicle still uses an electric drive train ... and a battery pack for peak load needs.

Until the fuel cell is more efficient than a battery I think it is a dead end ... and considering that there are a variety of batteries that can do over 90% cycle efficiency from electricity in compared to electricity out ... and modern fuel cells are not yet anywhere near ~90% efficient between the electricity in to electricity back out ... I don't see fuel cells ever being more than a niche market product ... like for NASA missions and the like.

oh and of course the fuel cell itself is very very far from free.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Ian, you are so far behind the times and you clearly do not have a clue about the current state of development of fuel cells. All it takes is another 15-35 years and they will be ready for passenger cars. We need to support this! (LMAO)

Personally I'd sooner put my money into the turbo encabulator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o



But yes, you are right that the problem isn't just about the cost of building the darn things. Its the net cost of ownership in terms of energy and efficiency going forward after you have it.


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

david85 said:


> Ian, you are so far behind the times and you clearly do not have a clue about the current state of development of fuel cells. All it takes is another 15-35 years and they will be ready for passenger cars. We need to support this! (LMAO)


lol
hasn't it been 15 to 30 years for the last ~50 years for fuel cells?



Now I will give Fuel cells a few things:
Back in the day , long ago ... hydrogen storage was a solution to fast charging needs that batteries of that time could not handle ... but the rolls reversed long ago ... a modern battery pack today designed to do so can be recharged faster than the modern hydrogen storage can be refilled.
In niche applications ... like some NASA missions ... fuel cells are the currently best fit technology.
A fuel cell vehicle if built right , could be a bit more efficient ( complete cycle ) than a ICE ... and that is good ... but still no where near as efficient as a BEV... so why spend the resources on the baby step, when the next step after fuel cells is already here.
Fuel Cells are reversible ... which in some situations could be neat ... imagine if and ICE were reversible ... you could drive the wheels in the garage over night , come out in the morning to more fuel in the tank than you left in it the night before... ( not counting the energy it took to turn the wheels of course ) ... ( and in the imaginary world where an ICE could run in reverse )
This intermediate step ( fuel cells ) could also help some people begin to understand their true range needs ... and support a home refueling system ... both of which would later be benefits for the next step after fuel cells , BEVs.
Research is good , often times having many spin off applications.
For instance:
The H2 storage research for fuel cells ... if cost was an insignificant variable like in many fuel cell applications ... modern Hydrogen storage materials could potentially increase the energy density of NiMH batteries up into the ~140 Wh / kg range ... here it would be more competitive... but for most ( non-fuel cell applications ) cost is a major determining factor / variable.
 


But ... I have a hard time finding good justification for the investment of resources into such a option that at best is just a intermediate step between ICE and BEV.

Instead , I think the better intermediate steps are the ones , the market is already taking ... ICE to HEV ... HEV to PHEV ... PHEV to REEV ... REEV to BEV.

just my 2 bits


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Given the advances in battery technology I don't ever see fuel cells being used for passenger cars. If you apply the carbon nanotube technology to batteries god can only imagine how far an EV would go with a carbon nanotube battery(a few thousand miles?)


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

IamIan said:


> lol
> hasn't it been 15 to 30 years for the last ~50 years for fuel cells?
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed, I guess that makes me clueless too 

"we don't need no stinkin' fuel cells" LOL


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