# Electric Tricycle feeler



## frodes (Oct 4, 2008)

Hey all,

I'm Nick, a student in Dunedin NZ. Recently my petrol Honda City (aka shitty) died and the things that we're boned were needed in an EV (steering rack brakes & CV, all up $1500 when cars worth $900). So that EVs already a no go. 

Anyways I'm still super keen to build an EV, and thought a trike would be an epic first project, for my current time and money constraints.

The goal is to replicate this one, man I'm in love with it!










From the sticky.. 
- decent with mechanics, I learn quickly and like building. Got a mate that can fabricate!
- I surf, so I'd like to get about 60km if thats possible from a trike?
- Speed performance isn't an issue, just needs to deal with a few decent hills and cold Dunedin winters
- If it can be done for $1500 i'd be stoked.
-No idea about parts, help?

So, where do I start?! I found these.. 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Bik...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:16|39:1|240:1318

Is that a decent price, and how many would get my distance/duration? I'm not down with the calculations yet 

I'm meeting up with Jens soon to check out his EV and chat, and after this project I hope to build a decent EV car with an arts grant funding (doco). 

Cheers in advance!

Nick


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## zig06 (Aug 3, 2008)

I have actually thought about building something like this. I've got a left over kit from a 36v EV project.

There are no rules as to what a EV project should be or can be. My only concern with this project is battery power, I personally do not know if it's going to be powerful enough. Do some research before you start buying batteries.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

There are TONS of parts available these days for DIY e-bikes.

You can get a replacement crank sprocket with a freewheel mechanism inside the sprocket itself, and mount a sprocket for the motor to run the bike. Lets you stop pedalling while the motor keeps on cranking.

And if you need extra oomph to get up that hill, just switch into "hybrid" mode by starting pedalling. 

With a Trike Ute like that, you certainly have some capacity for deep batteries that can run forever or provide lots of amps. A few 100 Ah 12v's could practically let you run to Invercargill or Christchurch and back.  Well, maybe not really, but you'd go a long way! Might take you all day! 

On a big heavy trike like that, though, I suspect that the parts we use for "regular bikes" would not be sufficient, especially if you're carrying fat batteries too. Might need to check and see if it has a straight axle (likely) and if so, graft another pulley onto the axle for a larger motor like a 5" ADC or D&D and with something like an Altrax 48v controller with a couple hundred amps capacity. Speed wouldn't be over the top, but if you found yourself on the west end of the country you could run thru the hills for sure.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

That looks like a good project! My first was a E-bike. I think you can probably do the trike for the budget you have outlined.
Probably a few horsepower and 36 to 48 volts would work great. 
There are lots of Curtis golf car controllers for a good price in 36-48 volt.
I prefer the resistive input over the PDS type. 
The motor would depend on what torque and speed requirements.
I think you could do 50-65km miles at 30 kph without too much trouble.


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

I like the look of that Trike-the back wheels seem a bit farther apart than many models i've seen. Not only does it give you more cargo room back there, that wider wheelbase will provide stability at a decent speed.

Just wondering-instead of getting too complex with gearing mods, why not just go for a front-wheel Hub motor? I'll admit i've never driven a front-wheel model Trike before though...so do any more experienced EV-ers see a handling problem with a Front Hub, good Rear Brakes and the Batts and Controller over the Rear wheels?


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## frodes (Oct 4, 2008)

Just did some novice calculations..

I want 150km (93miles), 93x50 = 4650kWh

4650/48=96Ah

for lead acid
*1.3=121
*1.8=218

So I'd need 48V 220Ah, battery...? No way, most bikes i've looked at have maybe 9AH? help!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Most bikes won't go 90 miles on a charge either.

A full size light weight bike might go about 6-8 miles on pure electric power with a 9Ah battery (at the 20 Ah rate).

My scooter will do about 15 miles if I push it to the limit and ride it very carefully, and it's got a 12Ah dual-string parallel setup (6Ah per string).

I'm not so certain your calculations are correct though, and since I'm supposed to be working instead of playing around on this forum, I can't dig in to see why I think they're suspect.


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## frodes (Oct 4, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> With a Trike Ute like that, you certainly have some capacity for deep batteries that can run forever or provide lots of amps. A few 100 Ah 12v's could practically let you run to Invercargill or Christchurch and back.  Well, maybe not really, but you'd go a long way! Might take you all day!





TX_Dj said:


> Most bikes won't go 90 miles on a charge either.


wha? so I could or couldn't get 150km from one charge?


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

I think what he's saying is that, since you want to use a heavy Cargo Trike-styled frame, you can afford the weight of better Ahr batteries-not those Mini-batts that drive most Bikes and Scooters. In other words, 90-125Ahr or so.

If that's the same Trike I recall from EValbum, then it held-oh, wait a minute...

http://www.evalbum.com/2221

...over four decent-sized persons at once and is estimated at nearly 800 lbs load!

Load that sucker up with some Optimas and then tell us what range you get-and with that kind of hauling capacity, add a Parallel string if you want...


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

TX_Dj said:


> Most bikes won't go 90 miles on a charge either.
> 
> A full size light weight bike might go about 6-8 miles on pure electric power with a 9Ah battery (at the 20 Ah rate).
> 
> ...


My bike, not light 119# with 200#rider, would get 20 miles at 20 mph pure electric. [email protected]
I am not certain if you went to 100AH that you could go 90 miles due to the weight.


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

I rather doubt it myself-but it would be nice to see his area of diminishing returns...

Seriously though-is there any reason Frodes can't grab some LiFePO4 from a bike shop(18-22Ahr) and wire them in Parallel until he runs out of space or money? And if he Volts high enough(and then Governs his speed to something safe for a Trike config) there won't be as much of an Amp draw...check out the Twike tech specs, it gets well over 80 miles per charge on 3 20Ahr packs!

BTW Frodes-what kind of budget are you looking at roughly? We fellow-posters will gleefully turn your Pedal-truck into the next Tesla design if we're not brought to heel by a bottom line...


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## frodes (Oct 4, 2008)

Thanks for the replies so far everyone, really helping! 

Order.. I'd be comfortable with spending NZ $1500-2000, but would it take more than that with the LiFePO4's, motor controllers and other tid bits? The frame etc would be virtually free..


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

you'll need the motor controller either way. Without it, you have no way to prevent the motor from drawing too many amps under load, and you'll have two speed, on and off.

LiFePO4 are expensive, but energy dense and light weight.

SLA will be cheap, heavy, and not as much range.

You can get a 5.5" ADC and a suitable controller brand new for around US$900. You'd also need some way to interface that to the axle, and with the torque you could get out of that combo, something like a light-weigh motorcycle chain is probably advisable. This would give you more than enough torque to move the bike + cargo without needing to pedal, even uphill. Then you'd need 36v of batteries, cables, contactors, switches to enable the system, fuses, etc, to round out the rest.

Could be quite possible.


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

If you're on a budget you're probably stuck with Lead-acid for awhile unless you luck out on some good salvage. I have no idea where the 'sweet spot' would be on your weight to power ratio, you'll probably just have to experiment.

Here's an idea I was going to try in a little while(translation-once i'm gainfully employed again...) for my Bicycle project. I may be able to grab some cheap 18V rechargable Cordless drill packs and Chargers for cheap at some of the local Flea Markets-depends on my Scrounger's Luck of course. If I get at least four with the same chemistry i'm planning on making a 'plug-box' and wiring several 18V strings-hold on, i'll try to draw it out:

__________
|_ _ _ _ __|
LI LI LI LI

That's my best rendition in ASCII. I only need about 18V for my setup-I don't want over 15-20MPH on a Bicycle after all. Tool Packs only have a few Ahrs apiece, so i'll be rigging it in Parallel for extra kick, and if I can grab more than four i'll carry extra Packs and Chargers in a Pannier.Not the best setup-but CHEAP.

I'm not saying it's an optimal setup for YOUR project, mind-i'm just giving you a few 'outside the box' concepts...let's say you stumbled across a goodly amount of 18V Tool Batts-say, a whole box of them. Two Batts=36V, half a dozen strings of 36V in Parallel would possibly give you 18-20 miles per charge, maybe more if you pedal-assist them. You place those in the bottom of the Cargo Area, add a cover, place another dozen Packs(with stickers to differentiate them from your Active ones) in Chargers hooked up to an old UPS-this assumes you have the original Tool Pack chargers. So you could-

Go 20-25 miles, stop and switch all your packs in 4-5 min.
Go another 20-25 miles, find an outlet and charge the depleted packs in an hour or less(Tool Packs charge fast) switch packs and
Go 20-25 miles, charge and...

Overall range would be average for a power-assist bike, but if you have access to outlets you could go ALL DAY. And you still have the pedals, and a power source weighing less than a bag of groceries to minimize leg strain...under budget too!

I haven't implemented ANY of this myself of course-so grab the salt shaker!
Once my employment is again secure and I have the funds to try my little Toolbelt Touring Bike i'll let you know whether or not my ******* Science has borne fruit...


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## jmygann (Jul 26, 2007)

http://tryckle.com/

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsvehicles.htm

http://www.twike.us/the_twike.html

http://www.aptera.com/


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