# My EV Conversion Vision, Am I Crazy?



## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Jeff from KY said:


> The 1953 ¾ ton model had a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 5800 lbs. Curb weight of the pickup was 3700 lbs (2000 lbs on the front, 1700 lbs on the rear). Contributing to the curb weight was a massive, inline, 6 cylinder ICE that weighed in at a bit over 850 lbs (removal of which will reduce the curb weight significantly). I suspect that all of the EV components (minus the battery pack) will weigh much less than the ICE that is being removed. The frame is a steel ladder type with straight C channels on the sides with riveted steel crossbeams. Adding load to the truck would blow all of the tires before the frame itself deformed.


Jeebus, that's a heavy engine. The motor, controller, and potentiometer, etc. probably only way around 20-250 lbs. The batteries weight about 75 lbs each, so if you go for 120v, and I think you should at that weight, you're looking at 750 lbs of batteries. Given that you'll remove the gas tank and exhaust system, which probably also weighs a bazillion pounds, you'll probably come in at factor curb weight, possibly lighter depending on how heavy those bits are.



Jeff from KY said:


> ...a manually clutched, 3 speed transmission, drive shaft, and a 4.57:1 ratio differential rear end. The original ICE produced approximately 135HP and, with the gearing of the rear end, the original truck had a normal top speed of about 50MPH.


Pretty cool that it's a 3 speed tranny, I know some folks kind of pine for one, as most don't need all 5 gears anymore. I don't know that they would pick the gears you will have, but they would happily pick three. 




Jeff from KY said:


> Brakes and steering are manual with no power assists. Electrical system is 12 volt with the only electric draws being the lights (two headlights, two front turn/parking lights, two rear turn/brake lights, interior dome light, and dash lights), electric wipers (not original, originals used engine vacuum), and the starting circuit. The current system uses a generator (not alternator) for charging the battery.


Handy that it's manual, saves you some trouble.




Jeff from KY said:


> One of the reasons I am looking at this truck for my EV project is that I will only need limited range at fairly low speeds. Since the truck will only be used for short-trip, local driving and the occasional parade downtown, I estimate that a maximum range of 15 miles (30 miles round trip) with a top speed of 45 MPH (no highway driving) will be all that I need. Most trips will be less than 20 miles round trip at a speed of 35 MPH.
> 
> So, first question, does this project sound doable for $5K-$8K?


I think this can be done for 8k, but not 5k. You'll need at least 120v I think, 144 might be better. If you use lead acid, then that's 10-12 x ~$150 , so between 1,500 and 1,750 on batteries alone. You'll need a good sized motor, at least an ADC 8", and I would recommend larger, which is in the territory of $1-2k. A good sized controller, preferably 500 A, around $750. That's 3.5 -4k right there, and of course there's all the cabling, battery terminals, potentiometer, fuses, fuse holders, etc. etc. that are all cheap but add up. 6-7k would be a fair estimate I think.



Jeff from KY said:


> Some other questions that I am thinking about are:
> Is a kit a good approach or should I buy the components separately?
> I am assuming that DC motor would be best due to my budget, but is that correct? Any recommendations as to motor voltage and/or specific motors?
> I assume (again for budget reasons) that I should go with a lead-acid battery pack. Is that a safe assumption? Number and types of batteries?
> ...


1) Some people like the kits. I personally thing that the kits leave out too many things and include things you may not need. I'd recommend not using a kit, but that's my preferance.

2) DC is pretty much a must on this budget, an appropriately sized AC would use up most of your budget right there. I'd recommend at least an ADC 8" or Warp 9" +, either 120 or 144v because of how heavy the vehicle is.

3) yes, lead-acid is the only viable battery you can use on this budget. Lithium would use up most of the budget on its own, and other chemical compositions are not commercially available to enthusiasts.

4 & 5) Most people get a dc/dc converter so that you connect the traction battery pack to the accessories, so that it stays charged up. I would still recommend a battery in there as well, that way your traction batteries are charging the accessory battery. This does two things. One, it protects the converter from sudden draw, and two, it provides a backup in case the DC/DC converter malfunctions, i.e. you're driving down the road and your lights all go out. I would not necessarily recommend keeping that particular battery, though. As it is also used for starting the car, it's much heavier than is actually needed. A lot of folks use a smaller, lighter battery, such as a 12v motorcycle battery.

Hope that helps!


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## Jeff from KY (Nov 1, 2007)

rillip3 said:


> Jeebus, that's a heavy engine.


Yep, built back in the day when American ICEs were cast iron and steel, none of this aluminum and plastic .

Thanks for the comprehensive response, I really appreciate the input and recommendations.


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

Go for it! I have a 1967 chevy c-10 that I'm interested in converting, I would also use the 3 speed although mine is a column shift, is the 53 a floor shift? There arn't too many of us old truck guys around interested in converting even though I think they will make great and fairly straightforward conversions. Rillip3's advice sounds good to me although I will add this which I've heard repeated many times, even if you are going with a lower voltage system to start make sure you get a controller that can at least handle 144v as you may want to upgrade in the future. The truck will have lots of room for batteries and obviously it can take the weight if you do want to increase speed or range. It will only be a couple hundred more now instead of buying a whole new larger controller later. Considering the original performance of the truck 120v will probably feel quicker than stock although I don't know if you'll get to 50 mph, maybe! 

Good Luck and Have fun!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

We've talked about classic vehicles many times here. Personally, I think redoing an old heavy polluter to an EV is a fantastic idea. Just understand that more than likely, you'll sacrifice some range as compared to a newer, lighter vehicle.

I want to do a 1964 Rambler Classic two door sedan some day.. It will look (almost) original inside and out until you open the hood or trunk! Plus it will be loaded with the latest gadgets... HD radio, bluetooth, back up camera, etc. In order for me to take on that project however, I need to sell my current EV and my current Rambler!

If you want to do a classic vehicle (or any vehicle), then do the car you want! Just be realistic about it's EV abilities so that you're happy with what you end up with.


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## Jeff from KY (Nov 1, 2007)

Jesse67 said:


> I would also use the 3 speed although mine is a column shift, is the 53 a floor shift?


Jesse67,
The 53 came with either a 3 speed on the column or a 4 speed on the floor. Mine is a "3 on the tree".



> There arn't too many of us old truck guys around interested in converting even though I think they will make great and fairly straightforward conversions. Rillip3's advice sounds good to me although I will add this which I've heard repeated many times, even if you are going with a lower voltage system to start make sure you get a controller that can at least handle 144v as you may want to upgrade in the future. The truck will have lots of room for batteries and obviously it can take the weight if you do want to increase speed or range. It will only be a couple hundred more now instead of buying a whole new larger controller later.


Good suggestion, I'll add that to the mix




> Considering the original performance of the truck 120v will probably feel quicker than stock although I don't know if you'll get to 50 mph, maybe! Good Luck and Have fun!


Even new, a 53 3/4t would be running at high RPM (for that engine) and really straining at 50-55 MPH. These old beasts were also called "stump pullers". Couldn't go very fast, but plenty of torque and pulling power. 

That's one of the reasons I'm considering it as a conversion project, cruising at 35-45 MPH is right in line with the truck's original functionality.

Thanks for the input and encouragement.


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## Jeff from KY (Nov 1, 2007)

PatricioIN said:


> We've talked about classic vehicles many times here. Personally, I think redoing an old heavy polluter to an EV is a fantastic idea. Just understand that more than likely, you'll sacrifice some range as compared to a newer, lighter vehicle.
> 
> I want to do a 1964 Rambler Classic two door sedan some day.. It will look (almost) original inside and out until you open the hood or trunk! Plus it will be loaded with the latest gadgets... HD radio, bluetooth, back up camera, etc. In order for me to take on that project however, I need to sell my current EV and my current Rambler!
> 
> If you want to do a classic vehicle (or any vehicle), then do the car you want! Just be realistic about it's EV abilities so that you're happy with what you end up with.


Always good to be reminded of tradeoffs in any kind of project, thanks for the input.

As to range, 99% of the trips will be to locations that are less than 10 miles from the house (grocery and hardware stores, family and friends). May occasionally take it to the "big" city, Paducah, KY, 15 miles away, for shows and parades.

Good luck on the Rambler project. Always liked the old Ramblers, solid, good looking (to some of us ) cars. And who can ever forget, "Hey buddy how do you get this car, out of second gear?".

Thanks.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

lol! Beep beep.... beep beep!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Jeff from KY said:


> So, first question, does this project sound doable for $5K-$8K?


absolutely $8 or maybe $9k tops if you go Lead-acid and DC motor...




Jeff from KY said:


> Is a kit a good approach or should I buy the components separately


If you buy the big items all at once from one place, they generally give you a discount, and shipping is cheaper. Also helps to have a 'kit' if you want to try and file for tax credits later.



Jeff from KY said:


> I am assuming that DC motor would be best due to my budget, but is that correct? Any recommendations as to motor voltage and/or specific motors?


with a 120v system, a 9" DC would probably be adequate for you description of range and speed needed, 11" DC would provide real POWER. You have room for 144v, but with higher voltages, the price of controllers, motors, and chargers goes up....



Jeff from KY said:


> I assume (again for budget reasons) that I should go with a lead-acid battery pack. Is that a safe assumption? Number and types of batteries?


Since you don't need super range or speed, I would suggest 15 x 8v floodies... like us battery us8vgchcx, or trojan t-875 or t-890 ; although this might be cutting it close on range with the weight of the truck, you might wanna go with 120v worth of 6v (20)....



Jeff from KY said:


> Any good reason not to keep the 3 speed transmission and clutch?


absolutely keep clutch and tranny! you CAN shift without clutch, but it takes forever to spin down between gears to mesh.



Jeff from KY said:


> Would you keep the current 12V battery that is already feeding the lights and wipers?


you do not need to keep a 12v at all, you can use a dc-dc converter to siphon off juice from the main pack.


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## Jeff from KY (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks for the input, Dan. Some good things to think about.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

a comment on the clutch.. 

I chose to leave out the clutch with my conversion and I actually like it that way. It does take MAYBE one second longer to switch between first and second, but that is the ONLY difference. There is no delay at all between second and third... and I can't remember the last time I was in fourth so, no worries there. A lot depends on the tranny you have. One of the reasons I liked this zx2 is that from what I've experienced, Ford manual trannies are very "lose".. you can easily shift without the clutch even in an ICE. I wouldn't leave out the clutch in a Miata transmission... but the Ford, no problem. If you can drive the car now, test shifting without the clutch a couple of times. If it's easy, then leave it out of the conversion.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> a comment on the clutch..


...very true... some are a LOT easier to shift w/o clutch than others. It also depends on who will be driving the vehicle most of the time, and whether you expect to HAVE to shift much. In my Swift (96v w/8" motor) I find myself using 1st gear starts a fair amount with uphill or in-traffic starts. I also have to shift between 2nd to 3rd a fair amount as a lot of streets are 45mphor 50mph which is just too fast for 2nd. The shift between 1st and 2nd is a 12 to 15 second wait and almost always catches a tooth or two. 2nd to 3rd is about a 10 second wait, and usually goes well. I think lots of trannies have different synco between the 1-2 and 2-3....

Since I wanted it to be easy for the whole family to drive, and the 1st to 2nd shift was so slow and sometimes painful, I used a clutched adapter design from CanEV.com.


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## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Well gentlemen, now you've got me second guessing my decision to go clutchless. I'm committed, having coupled the motor and tranny already. It would be a pretty big job to switch back. I'll try it without and can switch if I find it unacceptable.

My early research always turned up the popular wisdom that the clutch is not neccessary (low rotational mass...).

PatricioIN... You really think a Miata 5 speed will be much less forgiving than your Ford tranny?

Dan... The synchro delay of 10-15 seconds is quite inconvenient and concerning. I'd had the impression that a 2-3 second delay was the norm.

I guess I'll see how the Miata shifts sans clutch.

Rob


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

RKM said:


> Dan... The synchro delay of 10-15 seconds is quite inconvenient and concerning. I'd had the impression that a 2-3 second delay was the norm.


well... if you can find one that is ICE with similar tranny go drive it, and try shifting w/o clutch.  In a lot of little cars there is a pretty big jump between 1st and 2nd, and since the electric motor has no compression it takes a while for the shaft speeds to match close enough for the syncro to handle it....


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

RKM said:


> Well gentlemen, now you've got me second guessing my decision to go clutchless. I'm committed, having coupled the motor and tranny already. It would be a pretty big job to switch back. I'll try it without and can switch if I find it unacceptable.
> 
> My early research always turned up the popular wisdom that the clutch is not neccessary (low rotational mass...).
> 
> ...


I have a 94 Miata and the 98 zx2 and the Miata is MUCH less forgiving than the Ford. Don't get me wrong, I can shift without the clutch in the Miata it just tends to hit gears more often whereas the zx2 almost NEVER grinds.

oh.. and I think dtbakers shift times are out of the norm... it takes about two seconds for me to shift between 1-2...


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> oh.. and I think dtbakers shift times are out of the norm... it takes about two seconds for me to shift between 1-2...


hhhmmm, perhaps because mine still has the clutch and flywheel all that extra mass keeps it spinning faster longer... its a fair amount of inertia with all that spinning at 5000 rpm compared to a clutchless coupler.


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## Jeff from KY (Nov 1, 2007)

Good points on both sides. Thanks for the input. The GM three speed that's in my truck CAN be shifted without the clutch even with the ICE. However it really doesn't like it. I'll probably leave it clutched, though since I'm probably a couple of years away from that part of the resto-conversion there's no need to make a final decision yet.


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## Morf (May 29, 2009)

Jeff,
I owned 2 of the Chevs you describe, a `48 1 1/2 ton ex Swift truck SWB and a `53 3/4 ton HD 4speed same tran as the 48 had. That tran has a sweet super low for parades, since reved out to screaming was about 10mph. Advice from gran dad here is if you have the original clincher rim wheels, find the `all in one` wheels without the ring that likes to fly off under pressure and take people apart. I am trying to remember if your winshield wipers were vacuum or not. Your stovebolt liked to loose it`s fiber timing gear regularly at about 25000 truck use miles, unless you went to the noisier aluminum gear from Napa. Rod bearings loose pull out another pair of .0002 shims and tighten it back up. No oil pressure to the connecting rods, just a little tray under each one that would fill from the oil pump, and each ron had a scooper that would pick up a dose with each revolution. Put it on facing the wrong way would get you down the road about 5 miles, before the knocking would let you know seizeup was on the way, followed by a hole in the block.


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## Morf (May 29, 2009)

I didn`t mention some of the other important stuff. In dusty setting the front bronze bushing on the kingpin would need lots of attention for wear, and lots of grease maintenance, and we had an tie rod end fall off while in motion, should also be checked often. Steering on that truck and it`s big brother GMC was always a bit squirrely. On the HD floor shift 4 speed, I knew good folks who never used the clutch to shift, as the big syncros simply would not let you in until the in and out shafts were exactly the right speed, so a little pressure on the stick in the right direction and thunk, in. This could be an asset (except for some more weight) for your e motor/keep the trans. combo if you so choose. I am betting if you weigh your 216 cubic inch, 83 horse power original engine, or if you have one of the 235`s, me thinks you will find the weight to be in the 500 # range, barely. A fellow can pick up one end and stand it on its timing case without a grunt. To try to make you jelous, my `53 was a deluxe, with the wrap around windows in the rear to side. I really miss her.


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## Jeff from KY (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks, Morf. Don't have a 4 speed with a granny low, do have a 3 speed. ICE is a 59 235. Did some more research and found a data sheet that gave the 235 a 630# weight, not the 750# I quoted earlier. That may or may not be with tranny attached. Yep, a 5 window cab would be neat.

Thanks again.


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

I went clutchless on a Hyundai and never missed it. except on a downshift between 2nd back to first it took several seconds to match speeds, I finally has to goose the motor to spin up the shaft.


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## cyberpine (Mar 25, 2010)

Checking in on this thread.

Is there any documented conversion of of a 60s or 70s chevy full size truck?

My favorite all time truck is the late 60s (like 68) Chevy C10 (Chevrolet Silverado pre 1500) short bed, short cab truck. I know it's pure sin to even think about going from a 350 4 barrel to an EV. But so many guys have these beautiful trucks just sitting cause they can't figure out what's wrong with the Carb or timing anymore.

So rare to see them on the road, when I do I usually slow down and stare for as long as traffic permits.










My crazy (unrealistic) build .. Build the truck and brain up some homemade battery source that can be easily reconstructed that would give me a very modest 5 mile 30mph radius.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

with modest expectations, an old 1/2 ton truck would be a great conversion. Keep in mind that a manual tranny is easier than auto when you are shopping. You'd probably want to plan on a power steering pump as the finished product will be pretty heavy. You have LOTS of room under the hood for a 9" or 11" motor, and enough capacity to load up with lots of batteries! For decent power you'll need 120v or 144v system minimum... and choose ah capacity to match your range requirements. If you can afford the up-front cost, go lithium.


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

No sin at all, 350 4 barrels are a dime a dozen, the truck itself is what's classic. Plus if a 68 has a 350 its not original anyways, they came with a 327! But even so its not like you're chopping it up, it could still be converted back. The other option may be slowly rusting away in some guys field or being sent to the crusher. 

I have a 67 long box, currently with a 327 and a swapped in 5 speed, I'd love to convert it some day but I need to restore it first so I don't end up with $10,000 of EV parts in a rusty truck! These trucks also came with a 3 speed on the tree which would be great in an EV conversion, thats all the gears you would need! I would probably switch mine back to a three on the tree just for the nostalgia of having the column shifter. Plus then I get my floor back so my wife can snuggle up on the bench seat. 

Go for it!

Jesse


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