# Planning 1970 Opel GT Conversion



## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Hi, everyone. I've been dreaming about an electric car conversion for several years now, but I have been in school and therefore had no time or money. I'm graduating in a week, and so will soon have more time and hopefully will start getting some money too 

Anyway, I got my donor car, an Opel GT, the other day for next to nothing. It was one of those situations where someone's wife was tired of it being in her yard and made the guy sell it for a price that would make it disappear fast 

Much to the chagrin, no doubt, of most people on this board, I am planning to do an AC conversion. I am not particularly impressed with the standard AC50/Curtis combination, though, so I'm not going to do that. I'd like to do one of the larger Siemens motors, if I can get my paws on one. For the controller, I'm hoping to build one myself. Yes, I know that it will be very difficult and probably take me a long time, but I still think I want to try it for a couple of reasons: 1. From what I understand, there aren't that many great options for large AC controllers. 2. If there are, you pay through the nose for them. 3. I want one that is specifically designed for an electric vehicle. Particularly with a control system that can perform decently at low RPM. Nothing lame like V/Hz = K. 4. This is the most important: I want to become an expert in the fields required for building a VFD (Power Electronics, Control Systems Design, Microcontroller Programming). I have a fairly good foundation in these areas from school, but I need to cut my teeth on a big ambitious project.

As such, this is going to be a pretty slow project starting out. I'm expecting the VFD controller build to take me about 2 years, especially since I am not yet an expert. On the other hand, it will take me that long to make enough money to afford batteries.  On the plus side, even though I paid for my donor car under the assumption that the drive train was worthless, it turns out that it will likely take no more than changing the fluids and the battery to get it up and running, so I can drive it on gas for a year or two before I'm ready to rip that stuff out forever. 

Anyway, again don't expect things to move super fast but since I'm officially starting, it's time to start a thread! And of course I would love to hear thoughts from all of you guys. (Cue 30 straight posts telling me I'm an idiot for not going DC )

Pictures of the donor:










The guy didn't even bother to wash it, but there's a nice car under that grime










Ah. Much better.










I love Opel GTs!


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## Dustin_mud (May 22, 2012)

Very cool, got to love opels.


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## SandRailEV (May 11, 2012)

Looks like it will be a pretty nice ride if done right...

I also am going the AC route on my first conversion. I never cared much for DC motors in high power applications. There's too much to fail on brush motors through "normal" wear, let alone when it gets abused. As for BLDC, I have no experience with those but from what I can ascertain, they are still an inverter drive, no? They have electronic circuits that drive them in an AC fashion.

Anyway, what is the rest of your plan? Batteries? (Type & size?) Accessories? Power output? Performance? Range?

Good luck with your project... Where are you located?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

SandRailEV said:


> Looks like it will be a pretty nice ride if done right...
> 
> I also am going the AC route on my first conversion. I never cared much for DC motors in high power applications. There's too much to fail on brush motors through "normal" wear, let alone when it gets abused. As for BLDC, I have no experience with those but from what I can ascertain, they are still an inverter drive, no? They have electronic circuits that drive them in an AC fashion.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I certainly hope I will do this right. I plan to get lots of feedback and put my ideas out to the community before I go out and buy a bunch of the wrong stuff. As far as the rest of my plan, I hesitate to throw too much out there since I know so little so far  But I do want it to be high power --at least 100kW peak, even if I have to upgrade the suspension. As far as range goes, 50-60 miles would be sufficient (I'm not expecting this conversion to be particularly cheap, but the PR aspect of electric vehicles is important to me, and I want my car to be something that can help dispel the widespread notion that electric vehicles suck and are gutless. I know all of you know better than that, but the general populace has a lot of misconceptions). The batteries will depend a lot upon what is available when I'm ready to buy those 2 years or so from now. I plan to buy batteries last since they are the most rapidly evolving component...plus they lose capacity when they sit on a shelf.
Haven't decided on accessories yet, although one thing I definitely want to incorporate is a fingerprint reader "ignition" just for the coolness factor 

By the way, I'm in the Portland area.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

My first impression when I looked at the first picture was uh oh a lot of rust and a lot work ahead. Then I scrolled down and was relived for you to see how well it cleaned up. Keep posting everything you do especially with the AC part. I want to go that route also. Hopefully I can get started by January of next year. I have been happy with the ADC motor I am running these past years but it is time for a change. I am waiting to see what the HPEV guys come up with in the coming months.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah, the body is almost completely rust free...I was amazed. The guy hadn't washed the car in 6 years, so it was covered with some nasty grime, but it came right off with about 45 minutes of some heavy soaping action.

I will post early and often about my adventures with getting an AC drive train going. From some cursory reading in the controller forum, there are a couple of guys who are already a bit farther down that road than I am. But control system design was my favorite subject in school (I'm getting my degree in Renewable Energy Engineering) so I'm looking forward to that aspect of it.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Only 45 minutes? That really shined up!

The HPEVS motors are limited by the capabilities of the Curtis AC controllers(mainly their lower battery voltage limits) that it is paired with, it seems that people who are using it(at least from what I read here on the forum) isn't seeing motor temperatures climb that much. I figure if you contact HPEVS about what you are doing with the VFD they could pair an ideal motor to your VFD. Good luck. The reason I'm going with an interpoled Series DC motor is because it seems to be the best option due to the HP limits of the Curtis setup and everything else AC is either very expensive or unobtainium. ...but if you can build a VFD you've got a better window to AC performance.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Driver you and holly are probably more versed in the inner workings of motors and controllers than I. I am an off the shelf EV’er. (What do you expect from an Art Major?) HPEV is working on a 144 volt controller for the AC 50 and they are also coming out with an AC 51. Heavier windings and the like. I have given the Siemens a cursory glance and I might be above my skill level. Not that I am totally ruling it out. I am still window shopping.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Update time. My life has gone a little different than expected over the last six months. I spent a couple of months trying to get a job at a local company that makes AC controllers for EVs. I made it as far as a second interview, but it ended up falling through. Then a couple of weeks ago the company I was working at as an intern (solar panel manufacturer) unexpectedly gave me a "real" job with proper engineering duties and salary. So now I have a bit more money and a bit less time than I expected. The "build your own AC controller" route seems more remote now, for several reasons: as things now stand, it would not really advance the current trajectory of my career, and so would be a lot of time to put in just for self edification. And to be honest, when I first was thinking about it I was under the impression that there weren't a lot of good AC controller options available. When I discovered that there was a company just within the metropolitan area of my city (Portland) that makes a better controller than I could ever hope to on my own (the company I interviewed with) I took a bit of the wind out of my sails. But most significantly, I overestimated my own patience. I'm getting antsy and want to get this project going! Anyway, so now that I am starting to have a bit of money to put into this project, I have to consider the best route. I still greatly prefer AC over DC, mostly for philosophical reasons--AC is the future, DC is the past. From a practical standpoint, the endless argument you hear on this site--that you can get way more bang for your buck with DC--is uncomfortably persuasive. In fact, the guy I interviewed with at the controller company suggested going DC to get my feet in the water, and that there would be plenty of time later to do the conversion I really want. So now I am waffling. I want decent power--definitely more than the AC-50, if I were to go the AC route. I definitely am not looking for the cheapest possible conversion, but neither do I have unlimited funds. Thoughts?
In other more practical matters, I am trying to determine what to do with my transmission. Unfortunately my donor came with an automatic transmission, so of course that has to go. My thinking is that I shouldn't necessarily be limited to an Opel GT tranny, since I won't have to mate it to he existing ICE. Any ideas what might work for me (and be easier to find)?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

What is the name of the Portland company that makes the AC controller, and why did you decide not to use it? Sorry, no suggestions on a transmission.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

The company is Rinehart Motion systems, and the ONLY reason I wouldn't use that is because it is still a bit out of my price range. Ultimately I am sure I will use their controllers at some point in my life. Great product, even if they didn't hire me


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Pretty cool car, i see you have a KP60 as well, they are even cooler!


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Some Opel conversions here: http://www.evalbum.com/type/OPEL


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

I've seen Charlie & Tammy Rickman's Opel GT conversion at both EVCcon's and it is a great conversion. They use it for their daily driver. I saw that he is going to replace the manual transmission with a 2 speed automatic of some kind.


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## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

Excellent choice of donor chassis. There is potential to make a sub 180 Wh/mi car at 65 mph from it.

If you want to get it going right away, figure out what your needs are, and design for that. A 72V 100AH pack with a DC motor coupled directly to the differential won't go very fast, but it will be somewhat inexpensive(< $3500 for LiFePO4 batteries) and get you around town with 30+ miles range to 80% discharge.

If you feel you need a transmission with a DC drive, a Soliton controller can run an automatic and even "idle" the motor to run accessory loads; I personally would hate an idling Ev though.

A higher voltage setup with a 300V 600A Soliton Jr, Netgain 11" HV motor couple to differential, and 300V 60AH CALB CA pack would probably give you 100+ miles range, and would easily allow the same exact pack to be used with a future AC setup, minimizing your expensive over the course of two drive systems, but you will spend a lot more up front. That is, after all, a $7,000 pack...

What is your budget? Do you want the EV to save money in the long run? If you initially go the DC route and insist on lithium, and don't want to spend more than, say, $6000 total, you may have to go the low performance route to start off with. The good news is that LiFePO4 damn near lasts forever, and you could later transfer the low voltage pack to another project if you decided you needed something more powerful.



Beautiful car. I look forward to updates.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words. I love the car, and want to make a conversion worthy of it, so even if I go DC to save ten grand, I am not going to do this on a shoestring budget like $6000. We just got a Think City for my wife at a ridiculously low price thanks to bankruptcy liquidation. The 23kwh battery in that gets us somewhere between 70 and 100 miles. I would like something comparable to that range, so the battery pack isn't going to be cheap. I will be the last big ticket item I buy so hopefully prices will come down a tad by then. Ultimately, though, I am not doing this necessarily to save money. If I can, great but it is primarily for the experience, and when I am done, I want something I can be proud of and will give people who see it a positive feeling towards electric vehicles. With the bigger battery pack, I might as well take advantage of the ability to get more power out, so if I go DC, I would want the full fledged soliton.
The automatic transmission is not an option. I also don't think i could stand to have an idling electric motor, and 1970 automatics are horribly inefficient and very laggy. What is the point of having massive low end torque if it is just used to spray oil in vain at an outdated torque converter? It would be a case of pearls before swine.
Anyway, I will be interested to read your threads, and hopefully will start making some real progess soon. I have been a student for three years making very low wages, but I just got a "real" job that pays 15k more than I was aiming for, so I am eager to start making the long time dream a reality. I will be sure to document my experiences well, and will be asking lots of questions and looking for lots of advice.


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## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

Its drag coefficient is 0.39. Its cheapest and easiest drag reduction available is within the undercarriage. With those efficiency mods that are non-noticable to the casual observer, including but not limited to underbody paneling, mirror delete(replace with an indoor mirror), skinnier LRR tires, this thing could easily end up with a Cd of 0.33 or less, with a somewhat low frontal area(~18.5 sq ft). A 23 kWh pack in this thing would get you your desired range.

The performance with a full Soliton would be enormous; I have one and I will not yet be able to use all of its power as my conversion uses a single Prestolite, and will need chassis crossmembers to handle it, but I do intend to upgrade later. It is a very well-built controller.

You won't want to put much more than 200 kW to a single Netgain 9" though. If you want to make full use of a Soliton 1 and go fast while having no tranny, you need at least twin 8" motors, although a single 11" HV could haul some serious ass and make full use of the controller if you're willing to settle with an overly-torquey powerband that runs out around 4,000 rpm. There isn't a real need to exceed 100 mph after all, and a larger motor is slightly more efficient, but a 0-60 time of under 5 seconds is well in the reach of a single 11" motor in a lightweight beauty such as yours.


How fast do you really want to go in this thing? It is light weight and that opens up a lot of possibilities. With the CALB CA batteries, you could potentially make a car that did 0-60 mph in 4 seconds with that Soliton 1 used to its fullest, but you might spend $20,000 in parts alone to do it. Unless you go with an oversized 11" motor, twin 8"s or more will still be needed.

A 33.9 kWh pack of CALB CA100FI at $15,000 would easily allow 300 kW to the controller with 10C peak draw(can handle 12C for 30 seconds!). You'd have the range you want, and then some. 150 miles to 80% discharge would be possible with enough attention to efficiency.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

The Toecutter said:


> Its drag coefficient is 0.39. Its cheapest and easiest drag reduction available is within the undercarriage. With those efficiency mods that are non-noticable to the casual observer, including but not limited to underbody paneling, mirror delete(replace with an indoor mirror), skinnier LRR tires, this thing could easily end up with a Cd of 0.33 or less, with a somewhat low frontal area(~18.5 sq ft). A 23 kWh pack in this thing would get you your desired range.
> 
> The performance with a full Soliton would be enormous; I have one and I will not yet be able to use all of its power as my conversion uses a single Prestolite, and will need chassis crossmembers to handle it, but I do intend to upgrade later. It is a very well-built controller.
> 
> ...


I would love to go direct drive, of course. It would simplify things, give me more room and space to deal with, and solve the little issue of needing to find a transmission that will work for an old rare European car. From a performance standpoint I think I could do it, although I haven't crunched the numbers yet. I don't need to be able to go 120 mph (it would probably be better if I couldn't!) and by over sizing the motor a bit I could probably get fairly decent acceleration with a modest top speed by selecting the proper differential gearing ratio. But my understanding is that with DC you can't really implement reverse without a gearbox. So that idea is pretty much out. Of course if I went with the drive train I really want --Remy motor, Rinehart controller-- then it would be a different conversation entirely. But that would automatically increase my costs by at least 10k, which is difficult to justify.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Hollie

I am building a direct drive DC car 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-dubious-device-44370p5.html?highlight=duncan

I have a reversing contactor to reverse the motor - seems to work OK

I intended to use a gearbox until I calculated that ~ 400 amps should spin the tires in top gear
Then a gearbox seemed superfluous 

I am using an 11 inch motor - but that is just what I found cheap - a 9 inch would give a higher top speed but would need more amps to spin the tires 

Do some calculations - 
How much does the car weigh?
How much weight is on the rear wheels?
What is the diff ratio? (my Subaru diff is 4.1:1)

Work out how much wheel torque to spin the tires
work out how much prop-shaft torque 

Decide if a gearbox is useful


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Well, after I realized you could do reverse with a contractor with a DC, I have been leaning more and more towards direct drive. I think I am going to go with the old standard dual warp 9s, with series/parallel "shifting".


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Ok...so after spending months fantasizing about stuff I cannot afford (evdrive.com) and flirting with settling for DC, I have switched course again. There was one of those Ford Siemens motors available locally, and I liked the looks of it so I picked it up. So having rejected the expensive route and the cheap route, I am back to the hard route. But now I am somewhat committed to it.

The biggest challenge, as it always has been with this motor, will be the controller. I am going to try to make one myself. I have done a fair amount of programming a long time ago, but there is plenty of rust to bang out of my ears. I understand control systems and power electronics fairly well, but have never worked with canbus. My biggest problem is that most of my knowledge is theoretical, from school. I haven't really gotten my feet very dirty so far, and i recognize that this is a pretty ambitious thing, so that makes me a bit nervous. My plan is to start with the work done by the tumanako crowd and go from there. If I can get the hardware set up properly, it shouldn't be too hard to get it spinning in scalar mode, which will help me cut my teeth before the vector problem.

Another issue is the transmission. My crappy slushomatic has got to go, but I have to figure out what to put in its place. The torque band of this thing is pretty wide, and I could probably limp by with single gear reduction. But I don't want to take the performance hit. To gears would be enough, I think. So....modified powerglide? Some random 5 speed tranny and ignore half the gears? Something nuts like a lenco? Whatever I choose, adapting will be tricky due to the crazy toothed output shaft on these motors.

Thoughts? Ideas? Have I bit off more than I can chew?


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## Lauris_K (Feb 25, 2013)

Well for controller I wish you best luck, less burned bridges and most of all tons of patience. Since from what I know a person who developed "Amperbox-75" everything is close to nothing but EMI, parasitic inductance/capacity/voltage generation and you name every single thing with word parasitic, specially once you are over 100A. He needed around 5 years to go from 18 KW design to 75 KW one, and before starting he had a lot of experience in high currents electronics. algorithms programing is easy compared to finalizing powerful 3-phase bridge. Well this is when talk is bout MOSFET transistors in bridge, not IGBT. with IGBT it might be easier, not sure tho. But with MOSFET you get better efficiency, specially at lower output voltages(power).

For connecting to tranny check availability to keep clutch, for electric motor it is not needed, but ease connecting motor to transmission box a lot.

Laurynas.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Lauris_K said:


> Well for controller I wish you best luck, less burned bridges and most of all tons of patience. Since from what I know a person who developed "Amperbox-75" everything is close to nothing but EMI, parasitic inductance/capacity/voltage generation and you name every single thing with word parasitic, specially once you are over 100A. He needed around 5 years to go from 18 KW design to 75 KW one, and before starting he had a lot of experience in high currents electronics. algorithms programing is easy compared to finalizing powerful 3-phase bridge. Well this is when talk is bout MOSFET transistors in bridge, not IGBT. with IGBT it might be easier, not sure tho. But with MOSFET you get better efficiency, specially at lower output voltages(power).
> 
> For connecting to tranny check availability to keep clutch, for electric motor it is not needed, but ease connecting motor to transmission box a lot.
> 
> Laurynas.


Yeah that is the part I am worried about, building the powerstage. It seems like on this board it is mostly the opposite; you see a lot of people adapting industrial VFDs for the software and then building their own beefy power electronics. I don't see too much of the opposite. Etischer (whom, of course, I follow with interest) hardly mentioned any difficulties with his powerstage. Anyway, who knows...I'm sure that the software side will be harder than I expect, but hopefully the hardware side will be easier than I expect.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

So while I save my pennies for controller components, I have been working on low cost tasks such as removing the dinosaur burner from my car. It is kind of a pain with the Opel GT since it must come out the bottom, but today I got it out!



















And it is gone!










This will be much more elegant in there:











Good times!


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

naci888 said:


> Nice and superb model of that is i am awesome when i saw the fuel tank on the back side because i see first time these type of car which have on back..What is the model of that car?Red color is my favorite if you again paint on it i hope its beauty came back...


Thanks. The make is Opel (European division of GM), and the model is 1970 Opel GT.

That fuel tank on the back is living on borrowed time. I'll probably start ripping it out this weekend! I haven't decided what color I want to paint it, though. The paint job isn't horrible, but it does have some blemishes, and the red is a bit more orange than I like (if I were to keep red).


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Hollie Maea, it was nice to meet you tonight. Your project is going to be great. The Opel GT is such a good looking car. I'll be watching with interest.

The modified powerglide might be a good option for the transmission. I'm sure you are reasearching all of your options.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

So, slight change in plans. To keep costs low, my plan was to build a controller based on Johann Hubner's kit. I'm still going to finish that, but it won't go in the car, due to a deal I couldn't turn down. This will go quite nicely with my Ford Siemens motor.










Still haven't decided for sure what to do for a transmission though.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Subscribing. I've always liked the Opel GT, and the Manta!


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## Vhclbldr (Feb 8, 2014)

I am about a year or less behind you. Definitely subscribing, even though we are on going different routes on opposite shores


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## vmrod (Jul 2, 2010)

I am selling my 1972 Opel GT. see the classified section.
If you are planning a DC system, you can get a big headstart!


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

vmrod said:


> I am selling my 1972 Opel GT. see the classified section.
> If you are planning a DC system, you can get a big headstart!


Sorry to hear you have to sell!

I already have all the pieces for an AC system (except the damn transmission), so I'm too far along to start over 

I hope you find a buyer! You did a great job.


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## FlloydsOpelGTEV (May 16, 2019)

Hollie Maea, 

From other threads I've seen around the forums it would appear we are using the same chassis and same motor for our conversions.

I'm curious how far you've gotten with your build and where you're at in the project and hoping we can trade notes and ideas on controlling the Nissan leaf motor.

Its been 6 years since your last post, any update? lol


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

FlloydsOpelGTEV said:


> Hollie Maea,
> 
> From other threads I've seen around the forums it would appear we are using the same chassis and same motor for our conversions.
> 
> ...


Hi Floyd,

Yes it has been too long...for a while I was money constrained then I was time constrained. Where I am at now is that I (and Joey from this forum) are working on a set of conversions for a friend of mine. That project has taken way longer than I hoped, since my day job at EVDrive has had long hours the past few years. While those projects are going, the Opel is waiting in line to be worked on. But in the meantime, I have torn the interior down to bare bones, so the first thing I'll be doing is paint job and any body work I need. There's a small rust hole in the pan but I think the rest of the body is pretty clean.

I have a leaf motor and I just received a Scott Drive SD300 controller for it. The plan is to have those on the dyno this summer.

The last big thing I need before I start putting components in is a transmission. My Opel was an automatic and I got rid of it a long time ago. Rather than try to find an Opel manual, I am planning to put a Muncie M22 4 speed in it.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. I certainly wish I were further along, and I've enjoyed watching you and the others who have Opel GT projects. Hopefully later this year I'll have lots of good updates.


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## FlloydsOpelGTEV (May 16, 2019)

very cool, thanks so much for the update!

I will def have to look up that controller.

As the cold seems to be finally letting up im hoping to be getting back out to the garage to my Opel but my biggest hurtle seems to be how to control that leaf motor. 

I was originally hoping for around 200-300 "hp" out of my little EV Opel but it seems like any controller that would give me that is around 4 grand or would have to be made myself and despite years of practice im horrible at soldering and have no idea how to even begin to build a controller, but after a couple days of lurking around these forums it seems the easiest, cheapest, closest thing to a plug and play controller for the Nissan leaf would be using one of Pauls populated boards on the original Nissan leaf controller.

so i sent him an email last night, no response yet, but it looks like aprox $350 for the board and found the Nissan controller on ebay for $400 which is much much better then $4,000.

what would be pros/cons or what would the biggest differences be going this route vs the controller your going to be using on yours?

have you decided on batteries yet? ive been looking at the Chevy volt assemblies and by my math to get the range i need, id be looking at 2 of them and they are like $2,500 each, im hoping by the time im rdy to buy batteries a cheaper possibly better option presents itself, as ive heard no ones been able to crack the BMS for the volts yet.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Hey Floyd,

One of Damien's current projects is using a Gen 1 leaf transaxle (and I think inverter) in an E46 BMW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKl9hhTG66w -- Updated a few days ago.

Also on his "to do" list is a new brain board for the Leaf inverter. He churned out like, 6 new board designs in a week after he switched suppliers. You can basically just order one pre-made, and for like, 10% the price that the built-boards used to cost.

IIRC you were worried about the Johannes' inverter not working well enough with the Leaf? Johannes wrote alternative software that uses SOC instead of just his sine wave hack, so... I think it should work fine.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

FlloydsOpelGTEV said:


> very cool, thanks so much for the update!
> 
> I will def have to look up that controller.
> 
> ...


I actually was originally planning to do a P&S controller and went as far as buying an unpopulated board and the components to put on it. But I just don't have the time to solder it up (I don't have a reflow station and soldering it all by hand is just too much). But a populated board is a good deal I think, and I would recommend that process to get the most bang for your buck.

I think the Scott Drive is going to work well, but I'm definitely gambling until I get it tested. But it's much more expensive than what you would be able to put together with a P&S board.


Haven't decided on batteries yet. That will be the last thing I choose since things are developing so rapidly in that space. I will make my own battery pack IF I can afford to do so. If I write off my own labor, it's not TOO much more expensive than junkyard batteries.


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