# Simple change from power steering to manual?



## VideoJester (Aug 8, 2008)

Hi,

I'm making slow progress on my vehicle (96 Saturn SC2) -- I just got the electric motor (ADC 9") mounted to the transmission and engine cradle, and now I need to put the whole thing back in the car.

However, I'd like to change the power steering first. (Saturns have the axle, steering mechanism and engine all on the cradle, so it all comes out at once -- see the pix.) It's a lot easier to get to when it's outside the car.

I'm interested in the simplest solution, and I remember reading about removing the pump and connecting a short hose to make the system a closed loop or something. However, I can't find any examples or details, now that I want to do it myself.

Can anyone tell me the steps? Specifically, I think I
1. disconnect the hoses from the steering gear, 
2. figure out a way to loop the hoses (?), 
3. attach one end of a short hose to the gear
4. fill up the hose as much as possible with ps fluid (?)
5. attach the other end of the hose

???

As you can tell, I don't know what I'm doing here. (It's happening a lot with this project.  ) Can anyone help me out?

Many thanks,
Jon


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

VideoJester,

I would like to discourage you from removing the power steering from the car for a couple of reasons. Did you ever try to turn the steerring wheel of a power steering car without the engine running. It's very hard, now add a couple hundred pounds of battery and it will be worse.

You will get an answer from some people that when the car is moving it's a lot easier, but it will still require a lot more effort. Think about when you have to parallel park. Or what if you need to do an emergency swerve to avoid hitting someone.

There are two different gear ratios used in manual steering and power steering. 

1.) First of all If you want manual steering your best bet is to see if your model was available with a manual steering gear. If it was, then get one and replace the power steering box. 
2.) If there is no OEM manual steering rack available, then look in the hot rod books for manual rack units that you can adapt.
3.) If you cannot find manual steering then your best bet is to keep the power steering. There are a number of ways look through the threads for suggestions.

To do what you are asking you need to remove the two metal lines that come from the steering valve and go to the rack and place a jumper line between the two places that the lines connected to the rack, that way as the piston inside the rack moves any fluid is moved in a loop from one side to the other side of the piston.
Then you will have to do the same to the point where the two metal lines and rubber lines went into the steering valve. Those lines will have to contain fluid. Otherwise you could eventually seize the moving parts due to lack of lube.

Lastly

I cannot see clearly in the picture, but it appears that you have the right stub axle bearing mounted to the motor support bar with only one bolt. There will be a lot of wind up torque going through that bearing, especially when turning. That bearing should have considerable more support. 

Jim

PS.

Has anyone looked into the electric power sterering that is starting to appear on newer vehicles. I got out of the "fixin bidness" before these came out so I've never had my hands on one. I know it comes in two flavors. One is all in the rack the other is all in the column. Since these only use power when you are actually turning the wheel it seems these are just what an EV needs.

Jim


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I would like to "piggy back" on this thread to ask a question of those who have converted from power steering to "armstrong" as we use to call it. 

I have a Mazda Pick Up that I am converting.. it is basically a Ford. Finding a manual box for it should be no problem whatsoever. I have yet to try. I'm wondering if I could ask all those who have given up on their PS what their opinion is of their decision after the fact. 

Would you do the same again?

Do you wish you kept it power?

Do other ppl drive your EV and how does this affect your answer?

I really don't mind manual steering, but I wonder if I will regret changing it to manual when my daughter wants to drive the EV for example.

Sorry for high-jacking your thread.. but it may help you too???

Cheers.


----------



## VideoJester (Aug 8, 2008)

Jim,

Thanks for the response. And DIYguy, I think your questions are good ones -- some people have done this, so the right question is probably, was it a good decision?

Meanwhile, it looks like I should be looking for a manual rack and pinion, to see what's available.

Regarding the stub axle mount: Even though it's off topic, it's a good point. I've actually got some better pictures on another thread (see below), but I attached the relevant picture here.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-saturn-motor-mount-axle-support-21699p2.html

As you can see, it uses two bolts, attached to an 1/2" x 1 1/4" aluminum bar. I admit that the guy who made the mount for me is a great welder, but he's not a car guy. It's a lot less than the original: three bolts attached to a cast engine block. Do you think it will be enough, or should I ask him to make it more solid?

Thanks,
Jon


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

VideoJester said:


> Jim,
> 
> Regarding the stub axle mount: Even though it's off topic, it's a good point. I've actually got some better pictures on another thread (see below), but I attached the relevant picture here.
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-saturn-motor-mount-axle-support-21699p2.html
> ...


I'll move my comments to that thread.

JIm


----------



## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Jon,

Here's the initial "conversion" I did on my S10 steering box.










Note, I just cut the hose on one side and the tube on the other side, looped them together and secured it with a hose clamp.

I've since decided to go to a proper manual box since then, as the manual box has even less resistance than a looped PS box and weighs less.

Your saturn is likely rack-n-pinion, so it will look and act a little different.


----------



## BBrown (Jun 8, 2008)

I started out with the hoses connected. It was just a little better than "dead" power steering.

Then I went to my local salvage yard, picked the brain of the parts guy, ended up going home with a 35.00 dollar manual steering box. It bolted right in.

The difference is huge. More mechanical advantage, easier turning.
Best move I made.
Bob


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I converted my S10 and it steers like it had power. However, to delete the pump you better be Hulk Hogan or switch to a manual gear box or rack if they make such an animal.

The difference in a manual steering box and PS is more than just the addition of a pump. That said, changing to manual steering via gearbox change will make steering much easier than a PS system with loopback and pump deleted. 

The difference is the gear ratio. You may have 2.5 or 3 complete turns of the steering wheel with a PS system but a manual box will give you a half or full turn extra making it easier to handle.


----------



## ZenDaddy (Jul 22, 2008)

BBrown said:


> I started out with the hoses connected. It was just a little better than "dead" power steering.
> 
> Then I went to my local salvage yard, picked the brain of the parts guy, ended up going home with a 35.00 dollar manual steering box. It bolted right in.
> 
> ...


I followed the same path.

Bypassed the power steering box, hated it, got a manual box and LOVE IT!

I highly recommend to anyone wanting to build an ev on a budget (electric power steering is pricey, time consuming, and robs range) and is considering donor vehicle options, make sure that the model you buy came with a manual steering option. Visit the junkyard and get one. Mine was 17$ and took 15 minutes to switch out.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I have a 1996 saturn SL1 and it has factory manual steering. VERY nice feel on the open road and its really not that bad turning the wheels on the spot. Just have to use both hands, big deal. From what I understand about the saturns, both manual and power assist steeting have the same ratio.

Mine has 4 turns lock to lock, check and see if yours is the same. If it is than just short the lines out and use it that way.


----------



## StefanV (Jan 15, 2013)

david85 said:


> Mine has 4 turns lock to lock, check and see if yours is the same. If it is than just short the lines out and use it that way.


VERY old thread, I know, but in case someone else is searching for this like I was, I just want to add this information to wrap it up: My PS-equipped 2001 SL1 is only 3 turns lock to lock (1.5 turns each way), so a depowered PS rack is going to take 33% more effort than a manual rack.


----------



## Tom (Mar 26, 2008)

Years ago I converted an S10 that had power steering. We disconnected the pump and left the connections unconnected. If my memory serves me right, when connected, there is some back pressure that made the steering a bit harder.

of course a manual rack is a better option, but you might try to remove the hose if you have not already converted to manual.
It does piss out fluid for a while.
Here in Maine that tends to prevent rust....


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm using a power rack on my Device
I checked and found that the rack itself is greased so I emptied the power steering fluid out and connected the two sides of the power piston together

Been working fine for the last four years

Like all of the old manual racks it's a bit heavy when parking but as soon as you are rolling it's fine


----------

