# Pseudo Direct Drive Porsche 912



## VoltsCar (Oct 26, 2010)

So I'm starting my build on a 1966 Porsche 912. I really want to build something fast, and sporty, so I've spent a lot of time and effort to fully restore a 912 with EV in mind. I've removed lots of excess weight and items that are related to ICE, so I should be around 2000 lbs when converted. (lithiums, warp11, iedrives 2-speed, bmw e30 lsd)

Because of the weight and desired performance, and I'm using a Warp 11, I wanted to go direct drive for the simplicity of it. It seems that this isn't the best option due to loss of efficiency, so now it looks like I'm going down the 2-speed transmission path (from iedrives.com). 

Has anyone here done a build or know of one using this transmission? Any advice, or tips?

Thanks,

Michael


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

That's an interesting transmission, 80lbs and good for 1800ft-lbs. Do you have an idea of pricing yet?

Looks like you are on the right track to building something pretty fast though, have you decided on batteries/controller and is that an 11HV or just a good ole Warp11?

Good luck


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2010)

Why not just the stock tranny with custom gearing? If the tranny of choice can hold up under the torque of the motor there is no reason it would not work. Is the tranny a stock bolt pattern?

Pete


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## VoltsCar (Oct 26, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> That's an interesting transmission, 80lbs and good for 1800ft-lbs. Do you have an idea of pricing yet?
> 
> Looks like you are on the right track to building something pretty fast though, have you decided on batteries/controller and is that an 11HV or just a good ole Warp11?
> 
> Good luck


Let's just say the trans is stupid expensive. I've gone this far, why not the whole hog?

And on the motor, I'm still a little undecided between the 11 and 11hv. I was looking at a Zilla 2k, but I guess they are done making them?

Batteries will be the last and final thing that I buy because they seem to be getting better and cheaper by the day.




gottdi said:


> Why not just the stock tranny with custom gearing? If the tranny of choice can hold up under the torque of the motor there is no reason it would not work. Is the tranny a stock bolt pattern?
> 
> Pete


I doubt the stock trans will hold up. Plus I wanted a real clean installation. The stock trans is a pretty rough shifter, and the iedrives is an electronically activated shift with no loss of power. I'm thinking I'll be breaking some half shafts...?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

VoltsCar said:


> *Let's just say the trans is stupid expensive. I've gone this far, why not the whole hog?*
> 
> And on the motor, I'm still a little undecided between the 11 and 11hv. I was looking at a Zilla 2k, but I guess they are done making them?
> 
> ...


Haha, that's the same reason I bought the Warp 11HV! I guess controller/motor depend somewhat on the type of battery system you plan on. Are you thinking in the ballpark of 150v or 300v?

But you are correct, Zilla's are no longer in production, but they still exist.
I know 912's weren't powerhouses so you are probably wise to eliminate the stock transmission, I'm a little worried about my 944(turbo) transmission but I'm sort of hoping for the best. People put LS1's in 944's and keep the stock transmission so here's hoping.
I think your solution is much more elegant though!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Try contacting David Kois, he is a nice guy with connections to Otmar, he might be able to sell you a Zilla 2K.


*Contact Us *

*Current EV Tech, LLC*

*5709 Lacey Blvd SE*

*Lacey, WA 98503*


*Dave Kois*

*email : [EMAIL="[email protected]"][email protected][/EMAIL]*

[h4]phone : 253-988-5020[/h4]





VoltsCar said:


> I was looking at a Zilla 2k, but I guess they are done making them?


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

VoltsCar said:


> Let's just say the trans is stupid expensive. I've gone this far, why not the whole hog?


How "stupid"? ...


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2010)

Not stupid, just stupid expensive. I'd go with a nice modified stock transmission. Spend the money on good batteries.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I think the 912 is a great choice to convert to electric.

I have a 1977 Electric Porsche 911. You can see some pics of it on my web page, http://ExplodingDinosaurs.com .

I believe the 912 and 911 shared the same tranny. I'm not sure if your year has the same tranny as mine, I think it's different. Anyway, part of my reason for selecting a 911 was the tranny's reputation for being tough. It's been a long time choice for mid engined kit cars -- people hook up Chevy V8 motors to them. This video shows an electric 912 doing a burnout, claims to be in 5th gear!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdNHQUelUjA

I considered going direct drive, but it seemed much easier to hook up to the stock tranny. I also want to do land speed with the car, so that almost forces using multiple gear ratios.

There have been several Electric 911s and 912s done, I've never heard of a tranny problem.

So anyway, if you have the $$ and fabbing skills, custom is awesome, but the Porsche tranny is pretty tough and would save time and money. Also many start out in 2nd gear, and if you have enough power you can spin the wheels in 3rd or 4th gear, so losing time to shifting doesn't have to happen. If your car can handle direct drive, you can just start out in a higher gear for the same effect.

Any reason to not go HV? Power = Volts * Amps, the more you can get of either one the more power!

BTW there was a racer that broke the axles on his 912 or 911. He forgot to take the slack out of the drivetrain (press accelerator lightly with brake on). The electric motor spins up so quickly it'll spin up during the slack and hammer things when the slack is taken up.


VoltsCar said:


> Let's just say the trans is stupid expensive. I've gone this far, why not the whole hog?
> 
> And on the motor, I'm still a little undecided between the 11 and 11hv. I was looking at a Zilla 2k, but I guess they are done making them?
> 
> ...


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

We have a customer who wants convert Porsche 912 to electric...

http://1-ev.com/buy.aspx


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

VoltsCar said:


> So I'm starting my build on a 1966 Porsche 912. I really want to build something fast, and sporty, so I've spent a lot of time and effort to fully restore a 912 with EV in mind. I've removed lots of excess weight and items that are related to ICE, so I should be around 2000 lbs when converted. (lithiums, warp11, iedrives 2-speed, bmw e30 lsd)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael


Michael,

It appears from your list of components that you plan a front motor RWD conversion to the 912 you have.

I question you selection of the iedrives two speed transmission and 11 inch motor. Both are really quite heavy and belong in a much heavier vehicle.

I thought I would send you the following link for a motor/transmission pakage the would be more suitable for a 912/911 chassis.

http://www.kansasev.com/evglide-powertrain.html

I have been promoting the powerglide since I started on this forum. This is exactly the transmission setup I would have built if my health allowed.

It appears to come with a 9 inch motor (I think) and all adapters for a $3000.00 price. Amazing.

I would assume that they could also make up a package with an 11 inch motor, given the right incentive.

Hope this helps,
Jim


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## VoltsCar (Oct 26, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> Michael,
> 
> It appears from your list of components that you plan a front motor RWD conversion to the 912 you have.
> 
> ...


I'm planning to put the motor in the rear, just as the ICE config. The appealing thing to me about the iedrives 2-speed is the compact nature of it. Since I need to fit the motor, trans, and diff all in the rear, the 10" length of the 2-speed is perfect to fit it all in. Although this is the most pricey solution that I've found. Also, the cleanest looking. (more room means more battery room)

Speaking with some ev folks, it seems like a 9" won't give the sort of performance that I'm looking for. I keep getting steered toward an 11" HV model. 

I think I need to read up more on the Powerglide, I appreciate the tip. This is exactly the sort of information that I'm looking for. Thanks.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Not stupid, just stupid expensive. I'd go with a nice modified stock transmission. Spend the money on good batteries.


yes, of course.... was wondering how much $..?


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## VoltsCar (Oct 26, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> yes, of course.... was wondering how much $..?


With adapters, etc, all ready to go about 7k.

I know that will buy some nice batteries, but I want a really reliable, tough, fast ev. I'm willing to spend the money and fab time, so I'm really looking for the 'best' solution. A 2 speed setup seems really 'clean' to me.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> I have been promoting the powerglide since I started on this forum. This is exactly the transmission setup I would have built if my health allowed.
> 
> It appears to come with a 9 inch motor (I think) and all adapters for a $3000.00 price. Amazing.


It would be amazing, but looking carefully at the bottom of this page at the bottom it says: 

"EVGlide 2spd. Transmission $2875.00"

Still, that's not terrible for a dummy-proof 2 speed transmission. It seems likely that you could use some simple system with a generator run off the final drive output and a 2-way solenoid with a threshold value to create a simple automatic - when the generator turns fast enough to exceed the threshold value, the solenoid would toggle between 1st and 2nd. You could then us a simple pot to vary the rpm at which it upshifts/downshifts.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't thought of this themselves - it wouldn't cost much.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

PhantomPholly said:


> It would be amazing, but looking carefully at the bottom of this page at the bottom it says:
> 
> "EVGlide 2spd. Transmission $2875.00"


Don't know if it comes with a motor or not but I would assume it does come with the adapters and coupler. Add up the cost of the short planetary output shaft, shorty end cover and yoke plus a set of clutches and bands and a manual valve body. Just those internal parts gets over a $1000.00. So that price is not too bad.

Since I can't build anything this big/heavy I never followed it up to ask what was included. I just thought that it was a nice package fo the price.

Anyway, if I was able to build an EV I would use one of the powerglides I already have. My prefered shifting method would be a paddle shifter.

This setup is soooooo much better then direct drive, just in the fact it gives you a transmission reverse and a park position.

Well enough of my opinions.
Jim


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

I'm still hung up on why you would bother with "reverse" in a transmission for an EV. Since the motor should be stopped anyway when shifting between forward and reverse, why not simply have the shift lever reverse polarity to the motor?

There's probably a good reason for it. Just saying...!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

PhantomPholly said:


> I'm still hung up on why you would bother with "reverse" in a transmission for an EV. Since the motor should be stopped anyway when shifting between forward and reverse, why not simply have the shift lever reverse polarity to the motor?
> 
> There's probably a good reason for it. Just saying...!


Phan,

Here are a couple of reasons:

If the motor has advanced brushes you won't get arcing when you reverse

You won't need a $350.00 reversing relay setup

Reversing through gear reduction is easier on the motor.

The whole package has it all. Two speeds forward, no need for a clutch, a mechanical reverse and a park position. Anyone can drive it.

Enough Sorry to hijack the thread.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

1-ev.com said:


> We have a customer who wants convert Porsche 912 to electric...
> 
> http://1-ev.com/buy.aspx


You have to change the title or picture, thats not a Ferrari F360 its a Ferrari *F430*...


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Don't know if it comes with a motor or not but I would assume it does come with the adapters and coupler. Add up the cost of the short planetary output shaft, shorty end cover and yoke plus a set of clutches and bands and a manual valve body. Just those internal parts gets over a $1000.00. So that price is not too bad.
> 
> Since I can't build anything this big/heavy I never followed it up to ask what was included. I just thought that it was a nice package fo the price.
> 
> ...


Jim, is there any advantages for using a torque converter or not? other than the extra room needed?


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

O'Zeeke said:


> Jim, is there any advantages for using a torque converter or not? other than the extra room needed?


IMHO, there is NO advantage to using a converter unless you are forced to by the vehicle/transmission type. 

The only plus is its a bit simpler, you can just idle the motor to keep internal pressure in the trans and it would be slightly easier to make up an adpter/coupler set.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Any updates on Porsche 912 ?


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