# Out of the junkyard!



## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

My journey to and from work is only about 3 miles each way. My current Land Rover (a D110) barely even gets warm in that time and returns terrible economy. So, so long as my range is in excess of 10 miles - I'll be happy.

I decided not to intrude in the passanger space for batteries - so they are all slung underneath and in the engine bay. This keeps the COG low.


















In the UK, if you modify the chassis (frame) of a vehicle, it needs to be approved by the government for use on the road post modification (Individual Vehicle Approval test). I decided to go to some lengths not to modify the structure of the vehicle at all and make everything bolt-on to the original mountings.

So far, I've only had to drill one hole in the frame to mount the throttle potentiometer. Freelanders have loads of threaded holes in the frame which makes attaching stuff pretty easy.

I designed mountings for the motor and had a local company laser-cut them from 6mm steel plate. Once it arrived, I just bolted it all together, lowered it in to the engine bay and it was a perfect fit!










The motor reportedly can deliver 415Nm of torque and has a top speed of 10,000 rpm (although in testing it would only go up to 6000 - there is probably a setting for this). I figured that with a reduction of about 6:1, I would have enough torque to climb a 1:1 slope and still have a good top speed.

The rear differential has a ratio of 3.8:1. To reduce this, I have used a transfer box from a Suzuki SJ410 (similar to a Samurai). Being normally driven by the gearbox, this should be able to handle the torque. It has a high range reduction of 1.6:1 and low range of 2.5:1 - which is close to perfect for the application.










The transfer box is very light weight - 15kg or so and has bolt together flange type input and output - so very easy to adapt to. I turned up a quick adapter for the motor shaft (keyed) and bolted it straight on to the transfer box.

As of today (14 days in to the build) I have the motor and 15 batteries mounted and am just starting on the wiring.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Wow, what a find! With $1 a peice on batteries, essentially, howe can you go wrong? Good luck with the conversion, the transmission part seems like the hardest part, but switching from AWD is a good move for an EV, AWD provides great traction if you need it, but most often you don't on the road, and it wastes a lot of power.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2009)

Now that is a killer find. Some day I hope to do the same. That is a super sweet score. Nice work on the Rover. Keep us all informed. Don't forget to polish that motor case. Make it look sweet. 

Pete


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Wow, that is an amazing find! Were you even looking for such an item? Looks like it came with a gear box too? Was it still in the bus?


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## Matthijs (Jun 19, 2009)

Is there more from where that came from? This is by far the best find I have ever heard of! $100,- is just crazy!  Congrats. I am so jealous right now.


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

Hey Simon

Glad to see you've got it working - I'm pleased you were able to
put the SIADIS software to use. 

Man, that was *one heck of a find* for $100,
a new system would anywhere upwards of $5,000 !! 
( I know, I bought a 2nd hand one for that a few years back)

Anyway, if you're after a DC-DC converter for your 12v system, 
I have quite a few PSUs here that will take DC inputs from 120 up
to 300+ V, and give out around 14volts.

Also, I've finally got the Supra running as an EV, not road legal yet but
it moves with electricity! I do hope you're wrong about any chassis mods
needing an IVA test though, as I've cut a big hole in my boot floor and I'm
welding in a battery box there! (no mods to the actual "chassis rails" though). My front battery tray bolts in...

Looks like you'll be on the road before I even get my reg doc back from DVLA!!

Regards,

Richard


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

It's alive! This evening at 11pm it drove 6" back and forth!

Just need to put the dash back together, tidy up the wiring a bit, sort out insurance & stuff - and it will be on the road.

Not bad considering the build only started 3 weeks ago - and I've inly had evenings and weekends - and a nice workshop.

I meant to thank Richard above for providing the right version of the software - Thank you Richard!

I'll add some more photos when I can steal the camera from work again.

Si


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## lottos (Jun 22, 2008)

Wow, bargain motor and batteries! Fantastic - and quick build too!


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

Just a quick note -
- make sure you plumb up the water cooling circuit on the inverter
and motor. You wouldn't want to fry your bargain EV drivetrain!

Richard


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks Richard - I'd not forgotten, but figured it would be OK to drive round the garden for a few mins until it was fitted.

I'm using a bike radiator and cooling fan plus a pair of Webasto circulating pumps. I'm going to plumb the motor and inverter through the radiator with it's own cooling pump then have a separate circuit with a water heater, the cab heater matrix and a second cooling pump. 

That way, the motor and inverter should run cooler even if the cab heater is going full blast.

I decided how the power steering is going to work. I'm going to use an inductive proximity sensor (which I already have) placed close to one of the universal joints on the steering column such that it will detect the lobes of the UJ passing as the wheel is turned. 

This will be connected to a one-shot timer which will run the pump for 10 seconds say after each detection. 

Si


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

SimonRafferty said:


> I decided how the power steering is going to work. I'm going to use an inductive proximity sensor (which I already have) placed close to one of the universal joints on the steering column such that it will detect the lobes of the UJ passing as the wheel is turned.
> 
> This will be connected to a one-shot timer which will run the pump for 10 seconds say after each detection.
> 
> Si


Si,

A suggestion on your power steering activation. It might be better to have the system run until a predetermined period of inactivity is sensed. Maybe using a sensor that sees the steering centered? 

It could be embarassing and possibly faltal to have the steering quit if you are holding an arc when it cuts out. There is quite a kick back when the pressure cuts off. 

Another thought, maybe make it speed dependant.

Just some random thoughts,
JimP


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Jim - you are of course right!

I had decided on 10 sec as a reasonable length of time for a 'sustained arc' but as I was reading it, I thought of a local highway intersection where you drive in a tight spiral up to an elevated road - and it takes about 30 sec.

Maybe in that case I could use the one shot OR'd with it being off centre so if it you move it off centre, the pump will run continuously but if you centre the steering, it will continue to run for a further 10 sec. 

Si


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Si,

Glad to contribute to what looks to be an awsome project.

I guess that is why these forums are so important. Trading ideas is a lot faster now. The old newsletters and tradeshow method worked, but it sure was slow.

Have a good day,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Very interesting project Simon. I avoided the Land Rover route, as much as I would like one again, due to the weight. I was thinking of using a Series 2 with the transfer box acting as a two speed gear box with the motor sitting where the main gearbox would have been. That would have left the whole engine bay free for batteries as well as the fuel tank spaces under the seat box.

I am aiming at a lighter weight build and so the Suzuki Tbox sounds like the perfect way to go. I am also figuring on trying to get a four terminal DC motor so I can reverse electrically.

Not even going to think about AC, I will leave that to my house and workshop for the time being.

BTW, thanks for the pointers on the mechanical speed controller.

On another note, do you have any recomendations for EV friendly insurance in the UK?


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Simon, you should go back to that junkyard and see if there were any other AC systems available, then you could sell them to other DIYers to help the community! of course, if you have time...


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Unsurprisingly, a lot of people have asked if they have any more - but sadly not. The drive came from a hybrid electric bus that was involved in a wreck and it was pure chance that some of the parts wound up at that junkyard.

I did pick up a forklift motor last week - but it's probably a bit small for a Land Rover.

Woodsmith - I would have much preferred to use a Series 2 or similar, but not only is it a heavy vehicle but the roll resistance is huge! A Freelander is much lighter and rolls easily.

Insurance wise, I have always insured with the National Farmers Union who even if not always the cheapest, have delivered a first class service when it comes to a claim - and that after all is when you really see the value of your policy! I believe Footman James are worth a shot too - they deal with a lot of kit cars and unusual stuff.

Si


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

This has been a productive weekend. It's the first weekend in a month or two I've not been busy and the weather has been dry.

I finished off all the fiddly bits - the ones that actually take the time.

As I mentioned here I fitted a new shape Mini PAS pump. It has the controller built in so that the motor runs slowly drawing 5A until the steering is moved then speeds up for the duration.

I had to machine an adapter to go between the pump and steering hoses which thankfully was fairly easy. If you find your self using one - make sure you get the original hose then just get a new end swaged on to suit the vehicle.

I tidied up the wiring a bit, put all the dash back together. 

Then I persuaded Sarah, my wife, to drive it round the garden! She found it a bit odd as the startup procedure is a little different to a gas car - and was very perturbed by the lack of noise - that's the best bit for me .

I'll post some more photos during the week - left my camera at work.

Si


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

A few more photos:








Where's the gearstick? It's the right-most Carling Switch on the centre console.

















Vacuum and PAS pumps. I'll wrap all the wiring in spiral wrap to make a nice tidy loom once I'm convinced it works!








This is the Mini PAS Pump








And the adapter I had to machine because I didn't get the pipework with the pump - Doh!








Lastly, the vacuum pump. It came from an old Diesel Land Rover and was originally driven by the fan belt. I'm using a motor from an electric scooter - also found in a junkyard.

Si


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

No photos show up in your post, probably because the links point to another forum? 

By quoting your post and then copy/pasting the links in a new tab I can see that the forum requires a login/etc to view them that way, too. Since I don't have a login, I can't view your images. 

Oh, and I highly recommend NOT using tape to wrap wire looms in--it's sticky and messy and difficult to fix a wiring problem without undoing too much of the loom. Use the split-tube stuff you'd find in a lot (most?) of cars already. Then you can just zip-tie the split-off and join branch points together, and it's much much easier to fix later on (and faster to do originally, too).
________
Tanya live


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Amberwolf said:


> No photos show up in your post, probably because the links point to another forum?



I've just gone to 'the other forum' to have a look at the images.

Nice bit of 'unnecessary' cnc machining to make an adaptor between hydraulic pipe union and pump. I'm sorry but it looks like a flower!
Good use of scooter motor to drive the vacuum pump.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

Fixed the photos now.



Woodsmith said:


> I'm sorry but it looks like a flower!


It does a bit - it was modeled on this (as sold by my fav' off road company ):









It's quite a nice way to make a nut on a CNC. It is the equivalent of a drive on the flats socket and is quicker to machine than a hex with sharp corners!

Si


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