# EVNetics Soliton1 - customer support thread



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evlowrider said:


> Not sure if this is the best place to ask but I know Tesseract and Qer frequent these forums and my question is for them.


Well, I don't have a problem with it, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to use this website for such. Maybe start a poll asking if people mind if there is a thread for technical support on a specific controller?



evlowrider said:


> I am a fair ways off installing my Soliton1 into my car, but I was wondering if it is OK to hook up a 12V car battery to the Soliton1 so that I can connect to it with the web page console. No motor or pot box would be connected.


Sure - it's perfectly fine, and often a lot more convenient, to power the Soliton1 from a wall wart or 12V battery to set everything up in the first place. Make sure the wall wart is rated for at least 1A and between 12 and 14VDC (regulated is preferred). This is how I test them immediately after assembly but before connecting them up to the dyno. 



evlowrider said:


> The sort of thing I am thinking about is having a sport/economy setting for example on my dash and to be able to switch between those modes by making the necessary calls to change the controller settings (on the fly even?).


This is an incredibly popular request but we haven't quite decided on the best way to implement it (without cluttering up the web interface page). We would really like to work with someone (hint, hint) to take the performance data the controller continuously streams to the ethernet port and turn it into pretty graphs and stuff for display in the car. We would like to make that whole spec open source and are willing to modify the data stream format as needed to facilitate such. Oops.. look at me, volunteering Qer (aka SPD - Swedish Programmer Dude; aka Martin) for even more work...


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. I have a 13.8V regulated power supply so I'll use that thanks.

Cheers,
Pete.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Well, I don't have a problem with it, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to use this website for such. Maybe start a poll asking if people mind if there is a thread for technical support on a specific controller?


More information is always good, I don't see any problem with sharing. I wish we had more product manufacturers discussing their product on this site.


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

I just got my new Soliton 1 controller!

Can't wait to put it to the test...


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi all!
I am still waiting for my soliton1 to come from Kostov with my motor. I am still trying to figure out my battery pack. I have a big motor and would like to use as high voltage as possible. Question is: How many 3.2 TS LiPoFe´s can i use? (If i can afford ) Number if i use 12v LiFePo´s? (nominal voltage 12V, maximal voltage 17V, minimal voltage 10V).
I have old Range Rover to convert so i need everything i can get.
I´ll start a build thread when motor arrives.
Thanks you all, Great forum!


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

glaurung said:


> Hi all!
> I am still waiting for my soliton1 to come from Kostov with my motor. I am still trying to figure out my battery pack. I have a big motor and would like to use as high voltage as possible. Question is: How many 3.2 TS LiPoFe´s can i use? (If i can afford ) Number if i use 12v LiFePo´s? (nominal voltage 12V, maximal voltage 17V, minimal voltage 10V).
> I have old Range Rover to convert so i need everything i can get.
> I´ll start a build thread when motor arrives.
> Thanks you all, Great forum!


Hi Glaurung. 

The manual says 342V max and 300V for maximum current.

I think 90 LiFePO4 cells (288V nominal) are the optimal pack for the Soliton. If you charge them to 3,6V/cell (324V - battery pack), you'll still be able to drive the car although the cells didn't "settle" (LiFePO4 cells tend to reduce the voltage after a few hours - they come down to 3,3-3,4V after 5-6 hours) 

What 12V LiFePO4 battery are you talking about? This can only be LiFeBatt or some e-bike battery pack. That are also just 4 LiFePO4 cells in series.

The e-bike packs are not the best choice for an EV and LiFeBatt packs are very expensive. Take a look at ThunderSky cells. I and many others have them in our cars. They are the best buy on the market if you build a "normal" car. A race car or dragster needs better (MUCH more expensive) batteries.

Hope it helps

Mate Rimac,
Croatia


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks for your input Crodriver!
I have been watching your build very closely. 
There is a Thunder Sky seller in Prague who has factory 12v batteries for all applications.And usual sizes too.They have used those in replacing VW Golf factory ev Varta batteries with good results. I dare not to put link here but pm if interested.
I was also supriced to see those batteries.If they are ok, wiring and many other things would be a lot simpler.
Plamen gave me your e-mail, but since i have not started building yet, i have not introduced myself to you(until now).
Thanks, Harri


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

glaurung said:


> Thanks for your input Crodriver!
> I have been watching your build very closely.
> There is a Thunder Sky seller in Prague who has factory 12v batteries for all applications.And usual sizes too.They have used those in replacing VW Golf factory ev Varta batteries with good results. I dare not to put link here but pm if interested.
> I was also supriced to see those batteries.If they are ok, wiring and many other things would be a lot simpler.
> ...


If you purchase "unknown"/untested EV components you're risking a lot. A lot of companies are claiming specs they can't meet. Do you know if the 12V LiFePO4 has a integrated BMS?

If yes, how will it handle 300+V running trough it? The MOSFETs of the BMS must be oversized for that.

If not, how will you install a BMS in it? Don't believe the seller if he says you that the battery doesn't need a BMS  They do need it in the long term, especially if you can't check manually every cell voltage (if they are in a closed box) or don't want to bother with it.

I'm glad that Plamen gave you my mail. Are you building the components inside a BMW 7 series? He told me something about that a few months ago.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi
I changed donor to Rangie.Easier first build in my mind.
I will take 12v battries to another thread tomorrow, let´s see what comes out when issue is opened.
Thanks, Harri


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm pretty sure those 12 volt lithium batteries are not meant for EV use, they are meant as vehicle starting replacement batteries.


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

In the EVnetics manual it gives an example tach:

TACHOMETER – this input accepts pulses (amplitude of 4V to 15V) from a wide variety of transducers to read the motor RPM (overspeed protection and idle can't work without it). On our dyno we use a generic industrial inductive proximity (“prox”) sensor with a NPN open collector output."

I have come across a relatively cheap prox sensor that looks like the one in the manual but it is a PNP type - does that matter at all?????

Thanks,
Pete.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

As long as the signal is clean it shouldn't matter. The controller doesn't care about the pulse length or anything like that, it trigs on the positive flank and measure the frequency. Just make sure the signal's as clean as possible, even though the noise filter seems to work fairly well it still degrades the accuracy.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evlowrider said:


> I have come across a relatively cheap prox sensor that looks like the one in the manual but it is a PNP type - does that matter at all?????



Doesn't matter at all - either type will work fine, you just need to use a pulldown resistor (from TACH to SGND) instead of a pullup (from TACH to S+12V).

The value of this resistor is not critical - anything from 150 ohms to 2.2k works fine which should accommodate just about any of this type of sensor. Even though very little power is dissipated in this resistor, the 1/2W size makes it easier to span from TACH to SGND, though I have managed to stretch a 1/4W resistor across those two terminals.

Any other questions just ask, and don't forget to update your code/logger to the latest version when you are ready to start driving around.


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted by evlowrider
> The sort of thing I am thinking about is having a sport/economy setting for example on my dash and to be able to switch between those modes by making the necessary calls to change the controller settings (on the fly even?).





Tesseract said:


> This is an incredibly popular request but we haven't quite decided on the best way to implement it (without cluttering up the web interface page).


Tesseract or Qer - can you confirm whether the controller can handle setting changes to the Soliton1 while driving.

For example to automatically switch between two preconfigured settings from a 3rd party software using the same methods as the default Web Page console.


Thanks,
Pete.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

evlowrider said:


> Tesseract or Qer - can you confirm whether the controller can handle setting changes to the Soliton1 while driving.
> 
> For example to automatically switch between two preconfigured settings from a 3rd party software using the same methods as the default Web Page console.
> 
> ...


Simple answer; I'd recommend against it since it's really something we test.

Longer; It doesn't seem to mind when I flip around parameters on the fly while testing, but there's always a very short time period where some settings might be undetermined or even conflicting (the code is not written to be fail proof for situations like that) so at least theoretically flipping the parameters on the fly like you say might cause unexpected results.

A better solution; In 1.4 the IO-module is rewritten so that the special limits are rewritten to a more general throttle limit. If it's enough for your needs, consider upgrading as soon as we release the new version. If you need to limit more parameters, please let me know which ones (and why) and we'll consider it for 1.5.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I hear that 1.4 release will include a output to control the coolant pump....so that it doesn't have to run all the time, only when controller reaches a certain temperature. Can you elaborate on this nice feature at all? 
Any hints of other new goodies to come with this release? 

Gary


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> I hear that 1.4 release will include a output to control the coolant pump....so that it doesn't have to run all the time, only when controller reaches a certain temperature. Can you elaborate on this nice feature at all?


It's pretty straight forward. You select an output on the controller to switch on the pump and when the controller reach the temperature when it'll switch on the fans (~40C) it'll also switch on the pump. Not much more to elaborate about it...



DIYguy said:


> Any hints of other new goodies to come with this release?




 The special limits (for LVC, motor snap switch) has been unified to one simple limit (per customer requests) which will limit the throttle to a certain max percent. You can select all three inputs to different limits and lowest active wins. Can be both inverted and non-inverted.
 SoC output is skipped since it never worked well (and only did a somewhat useful work for lead-acid). Instead there's a pack voltage gauge output.
 The pack LVC now has a two point threshold so you define min pack voltage for no battery current and full battery current and the LVC will adjust linearly according to those two pints. For example, if you define LVC to 150 Volt at no load and 120 Volt at 400 Amps LVC will trig at 135 Volt at 200 Amps. If you define both LVC settings to the same voltage LVC will work like it does today.
 There's a button for writing all settings to a text file. It's mainly implemented to make T's life easier since he simply can ask a customer to save and mail the settings to him, which will be a lot more convenient than to ask the user to do screen dumps in the browser, but I trust that you people will figure out a use for it as well (like you did with the logger which was mainly implemented for debugging and dyno runs  ).
 
However, the biggest change you won't really see. Most of the web server is rewritten to allow for the html to be compressed to use less flash memory so we can keep implementing features. Things started to get a bit cramped on the inside... 

The web server now uses a kind of template page system which makes it a lot easier to add new features too, like the writing settings to file-feature. Wouldn't have happened otherwise. The penalty for this is that the web server is a bit slower now, but since it's a motor controller rather than a search engine we're talking about I figured it was worth it.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. 
I suspect the pump circuit will require a relay since IIRC the outputs are rated to 1 amp...?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I suspect the pump circuit will require a relay since IIRC the outputs are rated to 1 amp...?


Yes, you must use a relay. The outputs are rated 1A *peak*, 0.5A continuous.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

Pete I have used the Soliton 1 powered up on 12 volts for checking out the web server before installed . 

here is a picture of the sensor I installed for RPM 
works well. I haven't traced down the wire I need to send the rpm from the Soltion 1 output to the dash tach yet so I am using your app to read RPM . best I could find laying around here was 225 ohm for the pullup/pulldown but it is working 

a few days ago I threw a few pre charge errors . it would be great to get an error light on your app that signals an error was thrown on the Soliton 1.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Just sent the new 1.4 to T for evaluation. If it survives his scrutinizing the release will be public during the coming week. If everything goes according to plan you will be able to upgrade tomorrow Monday already.

Soliton Junior owners that run their controllers at pack voltages above 250 Volt nominal should definitely upgrade! The same goes if you run software version 1.2 or older (for both Junior and Soliton 1). Those that already run 1.3 might want to upgrade for the additional features, but there's no safety risk in staying with version 1.3.

*Please note! When you upgrade to 1.4 the inputs 1-3 and output 1-3 will be reset to off. Please make a note what your settings are before you upgrade and set up the controller in an appropriate way again after the upgrade is completed!
*
New features:



BMS LVC and Motor temp switch are now combined into a general purpose throttle limit. Any one of the three inputs can work as a limit and can be set to different values. Lowest active wins.
A limit of 0% will terminate idle, a limit that isn't 0% will not.
All programmable inputs now have a checkbox to invert their behavior (go from active high to active low).
SoC gauge output is converted to a pack voltage output with min and max voltage setting to better use the full gauge range.
Pack LVC now has two settings; LVC at no pack current and at max pack current. The controller then plots a linear limit between those points.
Added a pump output that makes it possible to let an external water pump run only when needed. An external relay will, however, be necessary.
Write settings to file-function.

Added safety:



Max motor current for Junior is now limited to 500 Ampere at 310 Volt pack voltage and above for the same reason the Soliton 1 limit max current to 900 Ampere; to protect the freewheeling diode.

So there.

EDIT: Forgot. Did some stuff with logger too to make it more readable and make it easier to import to for example Excel. Might be useful...


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

I wasn't clear from the other thread: If resting pack voltage is above 310V but drops below 310V during acceleration do you temporarily get 1000A until pack voltage rises above 310V again?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I wasn't clear from the other thread: If resting pack voltage is above 310V but drops below 310V during acceleration do you temporarily get 1000A until pack voltage rises above 310V again?


Yes. This rule does not have a "memory", it just acts on the pack voltage it sees.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> I wasn't clear from the other thread: If resting pack voltage is above 310V but drops below 310V during acceleration do you temporarily get 1000A until pack voltage rises above 310V again?


You're looking at it the wrong way; you temporarily get limited to 900 Amp as long as the pack voltage is equal or above 310 Volt. The 1000 Amp is always continuous as long as you don't hit one of the limits, like controller too warm, pack voltage too high (or too low) or one of the external limits kick in.

And seriously, with a pack of 90 Li-cells in series (which is the recommended max size) the only time you'll hit that 310 Volt limit is when you pick the car directly from the charger. As soon as you start to drive the pack voltage will drop rather quickly to below 310 Volt (ie 3.44 Volt per cell) and the limit will reset. Also, when you start to draw some serious current from the pack, sag alone will probably pull it below 310 Volt so it's not much of a problem in real life, actually.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Thank you two for the prompt reply.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Here is a graph of a 95 cell pack, battery voltage versus battery current. Nominal voltage is slightly above 310 Volt but as you can see the pack voltage drops below 310 Volt already before 100 battery Amps.










WIth a pack of 100 cells the 310 Volt treshold will increase to about 300 Amps (depending on types of batteries etc too, of course) which might actually be possible to notice when you drive. On the other hand if you drop 1 or 2 cells from the pack and is content with 93 or 94 cells total the nominal voltage will be low enough for this to never be a problem.

And that's why we recommend 90 cells maximum, that gives enough margin for the initial pack voltage to fit within the 342 Volts and the 310 Volt threshold won't be a problem.


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## Ams_AK (Jan 24, 2011)

Hello, I'd like to chime in because I have the exact setup shown in the graph:

Soliton1 (v1.3 jan'11)
95* Winston 90AH
Kostov 250V 11"

Looking at the graph it seems resting voltage after charge is (315/95) 3.3~V, charging to (332.5/95) 3.5V maybe?
Lower down the graph there seems to me a sweet spot at 270V/600A, this would be (270/95) 2.84V for a cell which has 2.8 as discharge voltage on the datasheet (WB LYP90AHA).

In the controller interface I'd like to set: Maximum battery current 600A. Maximum motor voltage 240V.
With that setup I believe output would also automatically be limited motor side to: 270V * 600A = 162000 kW / 240V = 675 Amps motor side and producing a peak of ((162k / 746) /* 0.8) ~170HP.

If a slight current derating is really the only thing I should be worried about then I'd like to go ahead and use the full 95 pack. It wil help me stay above 2.8V per cell and give me just that bit longer before 80% DoD.

Am I okay with those settings, or missing a beat here? Also very curious what the further setup of the graphed vehicle is!

Thank you,
AK


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

I'm not nearly enough of a battery expert so I can't say anything about if this will be ok for your batteries or not, but I can at least say that the controller will be quite ok as long as the pack voltage doesn't pass 342 Volt (at which point the precharge cycle will simply interrupt and the controller won't start).

I don't think the data for this graph covers when the car's taken directly from the charger. If it were I'd expected a higher pack voltage at the beginning since you usually charge to a higher cell Voltage than 3.3 Volt, so probably the car was driven for a few minutes before logger was started. On the other hand, the pack voltage usually drop to nominal voltage pretty quick when the pack's loaded so it wouldn't take much driving to "shave off" the excess voltage.

Again; I'm not a battery expert, but it seems that it's safe to drop below minimum cell voltage at load which makes sense since the cells internal resistance will make the Voltage at the terminals drop lower than the "actual" cell voltage, and that's why we've added a two point LVC-curve rather than a fixed minimum pack voltage in 1.4.

...which btw will be released real soon now. Initially it was supposed to be released in the beginning of this week, but then we decided we weren't happy with the temp deration of Junior so we've been tinkering a bit with that. So, well, soon. Real soon...


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## Ams_AK (Jan 24, 2011)

Thank you Qer,
As I am not looking to get max Amp I figured a Amp derating would not really affect me, I'll be sure to stay under 340V though.

Setup with current version 1.3 has been real smooth. Getting the logging info through, and the android ev speedo is picking up Volt, Amp and RPM in realtime! working on temp hookup now..

Just read an interesting convo between yourself, Tess and Plamenator (~Re: Ideal motor for the Zilla...?(2009)), where you were also talking about the hookup for an KTY84-130 thermistor.
Do you guys have a suggested/ best practice method for this input?
AK


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Ams_AK said:


> Just read an interesting convo between yourself, Tess and Plamenator (~Re: Ideal motor for the Zilla...?(2009)), where you were also talking about the hookup for an KTY84-130 thermistor.


Hooo, that's ancient and I don't remember that. You have a link to that thread?


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## Ams_AK (Jan 24, 2011)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...lla-31655p5.html?highlight=soliton+thermistor

Tess said they are a pain, and you mentioned paypal at least once 

But maybe something has changed since 2009?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Ams_AK said:


> ...Looking at the graph it seems resting voltage after charge is (315/95) 3.3~V, charging to (332.5/95) 3.5V maybe?
> Lower down the graph there seems to me a sweet spot at 270V/600A, this would be (270/95) 2.84V for a cell which has 2.8 as discharge voltage on the datasheet (WB LYP90AHA).


Sort of. The voltage your cells rest at immediately after charging depends on whether you subscribe to the top, bottom or no balancing schools of LFP use and abuse. If you top balance and charge each cell to, e.g., 3.65V then a 95 cell pack will rest at 347V and the controller will refuse to start up until you bleed off that surface charge. If you bottom balance (my personal preference) and stop the charger as soon as the first cell hits 3.45V then a 95 cell pack will, at most, reach 328V, which is well within the operating range of the Soliton1/Jr.



Ams_AK said:


> In the controller interface I'd like to set: Maximum battery current 600A. Maximum motor voltage 240V.
> With that setup I believe output would also automatically be limited motor side to: 270V * 600A = 162000 kW / 240V = 675 Amps motor side and producing a peak of ((162k / 746) /* 0.8) ~170HP.


You didn't specify what you intend to set the motor current limit to. I highly recommend you not try to push 1000A through a 250V Kostov motor because it is wound with smaller "wire" to allow it to tolerate a higher voltage with neutral brush timing. What you set motor current is up to you, of course, but I'd take it easy on the Kostov for the first few hundred miles.

Otherwise, your theoretical maximum power is determined by multiplying voltage and current on the same side of the controller - you multiply battery current and battery voltage, not motor voltage. Thus your maximum power would be your minimum battery voltage (including sag) times maximum battery current, or 270V x 600A = 162kW. Your motor power will be the same, minus a kW or so in losses.



Ams_AK said:


> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...lla-31655p5.html?highlight=soliton+thermistor
> 
> Tess said they are a pain, and you mentioned paypal at least once
> 
> But maybe something has changed since 2009?


Much has changed in the controller code since 2009, but we still don't read thermistors directly...  

Logger records the voltage at each aux input so you can hook up the thermistor to one of them - as part of a voltage divider - and then import the data into a spreadsheet to convert the voltage reading into a temperature.


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## Ams_AK (Jan 24, 2011)

Thank you Tesseract,

I meant to say I'd limit motor current to 675-700 Amps. The 162kW output figure is also the top of what I'd like this drivetrain to produce, and most often much less.
We are replacing a Volvo B20 (or AQ130 as it is the marine version), 4 cilinder 130HP engine.

We are working on the homebrew 0-5 Volt output for the thermistor, as we really want motor temp as part of the digital dash.
AK


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Ams_AK said:


> I meant to say I'd limit motor current to 675-700 Amps.


That sounds reasonable for a 250V 11" Kostov motor.



Ams_AK said:


> We are working on the homebrew 0-5 Volt output for the thermistor, as we really want motor temp as part of the digital dash.
> AK


If you are concerned about your motor's health then monitor the commutator temperature with an industrial optical pyrometer (e.g. - from omega.com). The commutator heats up and cools down much more rapidly than the field or the armature, even, and it is usually the first thing to get damaged so monitoring it makes the most sense.


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## Rob A (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a support question.
I get a slow blinking error light when I enable input 2 to be motor temp.
I have 12v going through the N/C switch in the motor.
If I disable input 2 the error light stays off.
Do I need to wire it a different way?

It's a Soliton1 connected to a Advanced DC FB1-4001A motor.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Rob A said:


> I have a support question.
> I get a slow blinking error light when I enable input 2 to be motor temp.
> I have 12v going through the N/C switch in the motor.
> If I disable input 2 the error light stays off.
> ...


This motor uses a Normally Open temperature switch, _not_ a Normally Closed. See the motor's product description PDF: http://www.evparts.com/cms/picts/products/mt2120productinfo.PDF

You can leave it wired the way it is now after you upgrade to release 1.4 of the controller software as it has the option to toggle the polarity of any of the aux inputs (if - change them from "active high" to "active low"). In the mean time, you need to wire the switch in between the input and ground then use a pullup resistor (value of 1k-10k is fine) between the input and 12V. 

The full release package for 1.4 should be posted on our website any day now. I still need to finish editing the manual first.


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## Rob A (Feb 7, 2010)

I just verified the switch with the meter and it is normally open. I don't know why I thought it was normally closed.
If I wire from ground through the switch to the input, then when the switch closes wouldn't that be "active low"?

Rob


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Rob A said:


> I just verified the switch with the meter and it is normally open. I don't know why I thought it was normally closed.
> If I wire from ground through the switch to the input, then when the switch closes wouldn't that be "active low"?
> 
> Rob


Yes. The motor temp switch input in versions prior to 1.4 is active low. I'll edit my previous post to make this clearer.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

These questions were asked in another thread, I moved my answer here to not further clutter that thread.



ElectriCar said:


> Is your built in contactor something that is field replaceable if it fails?


No. There's no need. If the contactor ever blows up it's a sign that something else has blown up as well and just replacing the contactor won't help one bit. It'll probably just mean you'll blow up a second one.



ElectriCar said:


> Have no idea what type contactor you're using or if it's a semiconductor switch but I've blown a few, probably due to not having a precharge.


And that's the reason. We've blown one contactor in total and that was because the software didn't bother to check for negative pack voltage but in one early experiment the polarity was swapped by mistake. When the precharge code decided that precharge was finished (ie when it couldn't detect an increase in capacitor voltage anymore which it couldn't since it can't measure negative voltage) it enabled the contactor and the ~-150 Volt was connected directly to the only partly charged capacitor and the resulting current made the contactor pretty much evaporate instantly. This is, as far as I know, the only contactor we managed to blow up though.

This was a very early beta controller though and nowadays (since the first ones was shipped actually) the Soliton abort the precharge and goes into fault mode if the voltage doesn't follow a normal precharge curve. This is also the reason why an external contactor (yes, I know that at least one customer has that, "just to be safe") has to engage within a second from when the Soliton is powered up. If it's slower than that the precharge sequence will be aborted immediately. If the precharge sequence finish according to the required parameters the contactor will be engaged and by that time the voltage over it will be well within specs for it to safely do so without risk for damage or excessive wear.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Is that contactor solid state?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Is that contactor solid state?


No, it's (2) EV200 contactors in parallel.


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## nzev (Nov 20, 2008)

Hi Jeffrey,

Is Aymee and Seb away at the moment? 

Cheers

Simon


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

PM sent, nzev.

In other news, 1.4 is being shipped with new controllers with an addendum inserted into the printed version of the owner's manual describing the differences in behavior from previous versions. I am still working on a proper revision of the manual with screen shots, more detailed explanations, etc.. I'd apologize for the delay, but given how many e-mails/calls we get from people who did not Read The "Fine" Manual in the first place...  

I will say this: the new minimum pack voltage setting in 1.4 is a much smarter approach than simply setting a single voltage and the controller doesn't start limiting current until it is reached; now you set a minimum voltage that must be maintained even with the controller drawing no current, and a second equal or lower voltage that must be maintained when the controller is drawing maximum battery current. In other words, the "sagged" voltage of the pack when under heavy load. In between those two current levels the controller linearly scales the allowed minimum pack voltage.

E.g. - Say you have a 60 cell 200Ah LFP pack (192V nominal) that can deliver 3C, or 600A. If you adhere to the top balancing philosophy you might set the minimum pack voltage at no current to a relatively high 180V (60 x 3.0V), while a bottom balanced pack might be set to 150V (60 x 2.5V). Whether you believe in top, bottom or no balancing you shouldn't set the minimum pack voltage at max battery current any lower than half the nominal voltage, or 96V (60 x 1.6V). With these two settings the minimum pack voltage has to remain above 2.3v at 300A, or above 2.77V at 100A, etc.

It really helps to draw this out on a piece of paper so you can get a good feel for how the controller will regulate pack voltage vs. current with your proposed settings. I'll provide an example of that in the manual... soon...


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## nzev (Nov 20, 2008)

Hi Jeffrey.....

PM. sent?? Sorry don't understand......

I received an email from Aymee in regards to an order I had placed that I replied to, I haven't had an email back yet, not sure if I’m being to impatient or theres a problem, Aymee normally responds within the day?

Cheers

Simon


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

PM = "Private Message" 

Problem solved, btw - check your email again.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> In other news, 1.4 is being shipped with new controllers with an addendum inserted into the printed version of the owner's manual describing the differences in behavior from previous versions. I am still working on a proper revision of the manual with screen shots, more detailed explanations, etc.. I'd apologize for the delay, but given how many e-mails/calls we get from people who did not Read The "Fine" Manual in the first place...


 Obviously you fail to consider how ingenious us "Idiots" can be in a destructive way.

is 1.4 avail for upload yet?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> PM sent, nzev.
> 
> In other news, 1.4 is being shipped with new controllers with an addendum inserted into the printed version of the owner's manual describing the differences in behavior from previous versions. I am still working on a proper revision of the manual with screen shots, more detailed explanations, etc.. I'd apologize for the delay, but given how many e-mails/calls we get from people who did not Read The "Fine" Manual in the first place...
> 
> ...


While you're revising the manual any thoughts on translating to other languages? My most recent customer speaks french for example.
PS. don't forget to update the links in the manual, evnetics.com/termsandconditions or whatever it is doesn't work.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

I have a questions for Evnetics. Where do we go for information regarding your company and available products?

http://www.evnetics.com/

This site, which I assume is your main site has no mention of the SolitonJr. From perusing this site, I found out about the Jr, and I've seen mentioned a larger Soliton family controller, but no details about it. Do you guys maintain a blog or something that lets the community know what you're up to? This site seems to be the most comprehensive place for information on your product, but there is not really a single place that summarizes it. For example, the Jr which you offer for sale at this time has no information whatsoever on the main site and i've not found anything here either. The linked retail stores all seem to have various information listed, but it would be nice to know what they "made up" (true or not...usually true I hope) versus what the manufacturer has to say about the product (on their own website). I'm also very curious about this large "racing" controller you are developing, or is it just a larger "pro street" controller. I can't tell from the references. Perhaps you are developing both.

Anyhow, you guys are a great resource for this small developing market, and I'm glad you are here. I know you are spending most of your time developing products, and I think that is a wise decision, but it would only take half a day to update a site somewhere with information about your products that are available, and it would be nice if you had a place for us junkies to visit to get the latest scoop on what your developing. If it is here, that is ok, I'll just have to keep digging through posts to get caught up.

Sorry about the long post, but I'm new to this site. I've been driving a conversion since 1995 when I did my Porsche 914 conversion, and it has been a real joy to drive electric. Just upgraded to lithium, perhaps a new motor and controller is next.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

palmer_md said:


> I have a questions for Evnetics. Where do we go for information regarding your company and available products?
> 
> http://www.evnetics.com/
> 
> ...


From what I know the evnetics site is flash based and created by someone outside the company. This makes it difficult for those inside the company to update the website on a regular basis. Tess and Qer hang out here and answer questions and are amazing resources. The Soliton1 and Soliton Jr. exist, and are available with reasonable lead times. The other controllers are at the moment a myth.

As an Evnetics dealer I know what information was provided and what I have listed on my site is a straight copy/paste out of the email that I can only assume was sent to all dealers.

I too would love to see EVnetics update their website to properly show off their products with up to date information including availability/manuals etc.
But for now this site is the best place that I know of for up to date information.

The info provided to dealers for the Soliton Jr. :

Performance: 
600 Amps Peak: The Soliton Junior has a continuous current rating with adequate liquid cooling of 500A. It can do bursts of 600A, and has exceptional thermal recovery.
340 Volts: 8 to 340 Volts maximum pack voltage. The full charge pack voltage must be limited to 340 Volts.
175kW Peak Motor Power: The Soliton Junior is capable of delivery of up to 175kW (or 234HP!).
Features:
Idle: PID controlled. Makes converting vehicles with automatic transmissions, power steering, A/C, etc. much easier.
Battery pack protection: Both maximum current and minimum voltage on the battery side are programmable - protect your pack from abuse while extracting the maximum performance and range from your pack.
"Limp Home" Mode: Low pack voltage limit function protects batteries against over-discharge while extracting the maximum possible range by limiting motor current to whatever amount keeps the pack voltage above the programmed limit. This function provides the greatest "limp-home" capabilities.
Motor voltage protection: User can limit the motor voltage output to any level.
Adjustable switching frequency: Default switching frequency of 8kHz is a good compromise between low losses (losses go up with frequency for any controller!) but frequency is adjustable over a limited range in case the noise is audible (in most installations 8kHz is perfectly silent) at the cost of a slight reduction in maximum current.
Current control: Throttle controls motor current (torque) for a very natural driving feel.
Smooth starts: Spread spectrum switching, or dithering, is used at low motor currents to maintain precise control and eliminate jerky starts.
Fine tuned acceleration rate: Motor current ramp rate is adjustable from a tortoise-like 100A per second to a tire-boiling 25,000A/s can be dialed in to perform much like traction control.
Built in Precharge: Precharge management and components are built inside the controller. There is no need for an external contactor and resistor.
3-wire throttle input: Throttle input accepts a 0-5V signal from either a pot (1k to 5k ideal), Hall effect, etc.
Two dedicated inputs: Tachometer (1, 2, 4, or 6 pulses per revolution) for protecting against motor over-speed and Brake, for killing the motor output even if the throttle is "stuck on".
Three programmable inputs: Reverse and motor temp (so far).
Three programmable outputs: Meter drivers for amps, power and serial/parallel motor switching (coming soon).
Error light output: Error light output for reporting errors on the dash.
Web browser: Fully programmable with a web browser based interface no special software needed to interface with the controller, just an Ethernet connection!
Data acquisition: Performance data is continuously streamed to the Ethernet port with a basic DOS/Windows logger program that has been written so far. More sophisticated programs are planned and the data format is in plain text so it will be easy for users to write their own. Data includes error reporting.
Firmware upgrades: Code can be upgraded through the Ethernet port and is AES encrypted to allow updating without sending the controller back to the factory.
Superior Construction:
Dyno Tested: Every single Soliton1 is put through a vigorous dyno testing procedure to ensure quality.
600 Volt design: Rugged design based on 600V industrial IGBT modules.
Cutting edge capacitors: Special purpose high reliability/low loss 600V film capacitor. No electrolytic capacitors are used in power stage.
High Efficiency: 1.5V max. drop at 600A (0.8V typical).
Superior electrical layout: Internal layout yields very low noise emissions.
CAE/CAD/CAM: Designed and built using the latest computer-aided engineering, design, and manufacturing software.
Rugged enclosure: Great weatherability.
Built in cooling options: Air and liquid cooled for application versatility. The enclosure itself doubles as a full size heat sink.
Dedicated high power connection: Two dedicated connections for the battery pack, and two dedicated connections for the motor. Makes for a clean and safe installation.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Yeah, the web page is horrible. 

The problem is, as usual, time. I could probably whip up something that's a lot better in not too many hours but the problem is, I don't have those hours. Noone really has so the web page was created using one of those "automatic" sites where everything's done online with a minimum of effort. I guess you get the result you deserve. 

Eventually we'll have to bite that bullet too I guess.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> is 1.4 avail for upload yet?


Nope. Still working on revising the manual...



rwaudio said:


> While you're revising the manual any thoughts on translating to other languages? My most recent customer speaks french for example.
> PS. don't forget to update the links in the manual, evnetics.com/termsandconditions or whatever it is doesn't work.


Thanks for pointing out the broken link. As for translating the manual into other languages, I hadn't really given that any thought, no. Any thoughts on how we might do that without spending loads of time and/or money? I surely hope you don't think funneling the text through Google Translate will suffice because, well... Qer and I know all too well how badly gTranslate screws things up.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

I send you a pm about the translation.
Perhaps we could set up a website to make a kind of community project out of it.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

palmer_md said:


> This site, which I assume is your main site has no mention of the SolitonJr.


That's correct - the Soliton Junior is not mentioned officially on the website because it is technically still in beta (unofficially, it is also because it is a struggle for us to make any changes to our stupid website). That is to say, all of the specifications, including maximum current, voltage, derating schedule, etc. for Junior are still subject to change. We went ahead and started selling the Junior anyway because people were pretty much begging us for it and they were all warned - so far as I know - that we were still ironing out the details.



palmer_md said:


> Do you guys maintain a blog or something that lets the community know what you're up to?


No blog. Well, Qer has a blog, but it isn't Evnetics-specific. We are pretty active here (and not much else). I tried to maintain a presence on JR's blog for awhile but he was so actively hostile to me I gave up. Seb and him seem to get along fine, though. Go figure.



palmer_md said:


> The linked retail stores all seem to have various information listed, but it would be nice to know what they "made up" (true or not...usually true I hope) versus what the manufacturer has to say about the product (on their own website).


Well, I will say that the claim our controllers can cure cancer is simply not true - everyone knows that only AC controllers can do that... 



palmer_md said:


> I'm also very curious about this large "racing" controller you are developing, or is it just a larger "pro street" controller. I can't tell from the references. Perhaps you are developing both.


That would be the megawatt controller. I don't know that we can enforce any distinction between "pro street" and "racing" applications for our controllers once they have left our shop and that is precisely why we canned the "1400A racing version" of the Soliton1.

At any rate, the market for the MW controller seems non-existent - maybe 10 people, total, if we are really lucky - so it is on hold until everything else that is more important (which is pretty much everything else) gets taken care of first.



palmer_md said:


> but it would only take half a day to update a site somewhere with information about your products that are available, and it would be nice if you had a place for us junkies to visit to get the latest scoop on what your developing.


I don't think it is fair to say it would only take half a day to update our website as much as it needs to be updated. I mean, the whole thing needs to be totally redone, starting with scrapping the Flash-based structure that Wix uses so we can move it to a real hosting service. Our M.E. started on that migration a few months ago but it's not quite done yet. Believe me when I say that I am the number one proponent of revising the website as it would (should?) cut down on the number of emails we get asking very basic questions about the controllers simply because the website is awful.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks for your replies. Keep up the good work.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi was wondering if the amp limit 500/1000 is just battery amps or is it a limit on the motor amps as well?

!Edit!

I just found the answer on your web site - well at least for the S1. 1000 amp limit is on both motor and battery amps.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

drgrieve said:


> Hi was wondering if the amp limit 500/1000 is just battery amps or is it a limit on the motor amps as well?
> 
> !Edit!
> 
> I just found the answer on your web site - well at least for the S1. 1000 amp limit is on both motor and battery amps.


The current rating applies to both motor and battery amps for both of our controllers (which is not necessarily the case with other controllers). That is to say, an Evnetics controller can deliver its full current rating to the motor at all duty cycles from a little over 0% to 100%.

All modern dc motor controllers are buck converters which convert a higher input (battery) voltage into a lower or equal output (motor voltage). Since power is conserved, battery current must then be less than or equal to motor current.

I'm curious as to why you asked this question, however...


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Where can I find specs for RPM output signal from Soliton? Is it 50% duty pulse, 0-12V?

I'd also like to try 1.4 firmware, has it been released yet?

Thanks


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

dimitri said:


> Where can I find specs for RPM output signal from Soliton? Is it 50% duty pulse, 0-12V?


It's tricky.... 

But generally speaking the pulse width should be ~10%. 12 Volt.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Couple comments:

Even if you don't have an automatic transmission, this idle function is awesome for seating a new set of brushes. Just set it to 1000 rpm and let forget it for a day or so. 
Also, I love the cooling pump output in rev 1.4 (I got it a bit early). Been using it for a while now. I just used an automotive cube relay to drive my little pump. 

I never thought I needed the liquid cooling much...but upgrading to lithium is another reason to do this. You typically use more energy (because you have it available).... 

Cheers.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

How many amps does the soliton pull off the 12V line? I'm trying to size my DCDC converter...


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> The current rating applies to both motor and battery amps for both of our controllers (which is not necessarily the case with other controllers). That is to say, an Evnetics controller can deliver its full current rating to the motor at all duty cycles from a little over 0% to 100%.
> 
> I'm curious as to why you asked this question, however...


Thanks for the reply. I was wondering was advantages I would get if building a pack voltage higher than the rated motor voltage.

The primary advantage is to elimate voltage sag which would make RPM's consistent. Secondary would be to reduce battery amps, but seeing as I would be using smaller ah batteries to achieve higher voltage that would be a minor point.

Disadvantage is increase cost in other components.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> How many amps does the soliton pull off the 12V line? I'm trying to size my DCDC converter...


I actually found it in the manual even though it wasn't easy to find (had to text search for it)... 



> The maximum continuous current draw is 1A, not including any any loads driven by the auxiliary outputs.


However the peak current is higher because when the contactor(s) activate they pull something like 8 Amps for a short time IIRC. If you have for example a small MC-battery as backup (which I'd recommend anyway to avoid a total, sudden blackout of the whole car if the DC/DC breaks) this won't be a problem but if you only use a DC/DC this could cause your DC/DC to go into current limit and interrupt the startup process of the controller.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

drgrieve said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was wondering was advantages I would get if building a pack voltage higher than the rated motor voltage.
> 
> The primary advantage is to elimate voltage sag which would make RPM's consistent. Secondary would be to reduce battery amps, but seeing as I would be using smaller ah batteries to achieve higher voltage that would be a minor point.
> 
> Disadvantage is increase cost in other components.


Ah, ok. I wasn't sure where you were going with your question. 

Ok, theoretically speaking, a higher battery pack voltage will allow you to get full torque from the motor up to a higher RPM. I say "theoretically" because you can't run a motor at "max current" and max voltage at the same time. What is "max current"? I don't know for sure, because every data point costs me a motor, but 150V/1000A seems to be the maximum you can push through a WarP-9 for a few brief seconds. At 170V I would be wary of exceeding 800-900A but this is just speculation. 

So the real reason for running a higher pack voltage than what the motor can take is to get a longer range - more volts times Ah equals more range, simple as that.

The goal is not so much to perfectly utilize every component to its maximum capability (ie, sizing the controller, motor and battery pack so each is used at its maximum capability); rather, the goal should be to select the components to get the range and performance you want out of your EV.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

> However the peak current is higher because when the contactor(s) activate they pull something like 8 Amps for a short time IIRC. If you have for example a small MC-battery as backup (which I'd recommend anyway to avoid a total, sudden blackout of the whole car if the DC/DC breaks) this won't be a problem but if you only use a DC/DC this could cause your DC/DC to go into current limit and interrupt the startup process of the controller.



recent experience has taught me that using a battery instead of relying on a dc/dc is the right thing to do.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> recent experience has taught me that using a battery instead of relying on a dc/dc is the right thing to do.


That is also a solution with obvious draw backs, namely that when you start to draw current from a 12 Volt battery the voltage will sag. Combine head lights, a battery that's started to get drained etc and eventually the controller will shut down.

The best combination imo is a small battery (for reliability and emergency backup) combined with a DC/DC (for keeping the voltage above 12 Volt). Both a small MC-battery and a decent DC/DC are so cheap that I don't really see the point in going cheap and pick only one. It is, after all, a question of personal safety that the car doesn't suddenly shut down in the traffic...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's what I'm using, a small AGM and DC/DC.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> That's what I'm using, a small AGM and DC/DC.


Ya, me as well....


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Qer said:


> I actually found it in the manual even though it wasn't easy to find (had to text search for it)...


BAh!!! I totally looked for it! I searched for 12V ... 

Thanks for the answer... sounds like 1A + whatever is on the 'out' lines. 

Perfect. Thank you.

(ps. I also plan to run a DCDC into an aux battery)


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

I was too lazy to post the information last time and it was the hottest day of the year so I blew it off as being caused by the heat.
But it happened again today. Everything appears fine but the controller or actually the throttle gives just a tiny hint of response.
The very first time this happened I was in my garage getting ready to go.. In my garage when it's nice and quiet I can hear the to contactors click and I know I'm in business. 

The first time it happened I stepped on the pedal and it didn't move, nothing no lurch no jerk nothing.

This was the first time I had experienced any problems. so 
I quickly logged into the controller and I attempted to re calibrate the throttle that seemed to work and I was on my way and I didn't think about it for a couple of months .( actually the symptoms are the same but as i recall the throttle cable wasn't clicked into the fitting correctly )

And I think it was about 2 to 3 weeks ago it was damn near the hottest day of the year the controller wigged out. 

It's been few weeks later now so I don't remember the details 100 percent again I quickly try to recalibrate the throttle without any luck this time . I did a factory reset and I was back in business.


When it happened today (yesterday) I recognized what was immediately and I tried to calibrate the throttle.
I performed what I thought was a throttle calibration I still was not in business so I did a factory reset then I was back in business.
factory settings suck.
I mean no offense but after I make the changes to the settings, my car kicks ass. Before changing settings I get performance like what I imagine every thinks an EV is like. slow and crawling .
So it's strange right ??
The good news is we can get at the controller and see whats happening and change things. 
DD


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> When it happened today (yesterday) I recognized what was immediately and I tried to calibrate the throttle.
> I performed what I thought was a throttle calibration I still was not in business so I did a factory reset then I was back in business.
> factory settings suck.
> I mean no offense but after I make the changes to the settings, my car kicks ass. Before changing settings I get performance like what I imagine every thinks an EV is like. slow and crawling .
> ...


Controller code version?
Settings you are changing?
Screenshot of your web interface page (particularly showing the blue status box)?
Type of throttle?
Got a logfile?

Please send this info to our support email address as trying to diagnose weird problems in a forum thread is exceptionally cumbersome.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

the current version 1.3 I'm waiting for 1.4 

I change 
min volts = 100
max batt = 680
max motor volt = 185
motor current = 1000
max motor pwr = 240 
slew was 8000

throttle is your throttle 
no log i had just come off a little opportunity charge and went to leave.
i have been trying to log often to "catch " it again 

I recently installed a tach input I am going to turn that off I don't need it until I get the output wired to the dash tach . I was just curious. 

slew rate + rpm issue maybe ?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> the current version 1.3 I'm waiting for 1.4
> 
> I change
> min volts = 100
> ...


Noise on the tach could definitely cause this, usually from a missing or too high a value load resistor. More details about your tach will be key here, but watching logger should be a dead giveaway as to whether the throttle is misbehaving or the tach or whatever.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> no log i had just come off a little opportunity charge and went to leave.
> i have been trying to log often to "catch " it again


It would definitely be perfect if you could manage to catch a log when it happen since I've never heard about this problem before. Sounds very, very odd...


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Installed 1.4 firmware, no issues with upgrade. Wired water pump output via 12V relay to keep my water pump off until needed. Really nice feature. Thanks!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

dimitri said:


> Installed 1.4 firmware, no issues with upgrade. Wired water pump output via 12V relay to keep my water pump off until needed. Really nice feature. Thanks!


What do you think of the new minimum pack voltage function? I am having a tough time figuring out how to describe it clearly in the manual so some feedback on it from anyone using 1.4 would be nice.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> What do you think of the new minimum pack voltage function? I am having a tough time figuring out how to describe it clearly in the manual so some feedback on it from anyone using 1.4 would be nice.


Which new function? The one allowing 2 separate LVC values - loaded and unloaded? Honestly I haven't thought about it much since I never reach LVC levels in my usual driving. Perhaps I should set those to artificially high levels and see how the car behaves and then give you feedback.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Noise on the tach could definitely cause this, usually from a missing or too high a value load resistor. More details about your tach will be key here, but watching logger should be a dead giveaway as to whether the throttle is misbehaving or the tach or whatever.



Bingo . Combine the two symptoms and we have a 225 ohm resistor dangling instead of being connected .

I have extra 150ohm resistors now 

Tesseract thanks for your support


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> Bingo . Combine the two symptoms and we have a 225 ohm resistor dangling instead of being connected .
> 
> I have extra 150ohm resistors now
> 
> Tesseract thanks for your support


Good deal. BTW - 220 ohms is the minimum recommended value for the load resistor...


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

oh crap then I'm wrong again I got 150 in my head I forgot why i used 225 aside from thats all i had around . how about 250 or 300 ohms ?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> oh crap then I'm wrong again I got 150 in my head I forgot why i used 225 aside from thats all i had around . how about 250 or 300 ohms ?


You can use any value from 220 ohms to 10k, though I recommend staying below 2.2k.

BTW - 225 and 250 aren't standard resistor values and though 300 is, it's much less common than 330 ohms. So, what kind of resistors are these? I'd just go buy some plain old 1/2W resistors from Radio Shack. IIRC, they have 220 ohms, 330 ohms, 470 ohms, etc., in stock.


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## FarFromStock (Mar 16, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> What do you think of the new minimum pack voltage function? I am having a tough time figuring out how to describe it clearly in the manual so some feedback on it from anyone using 1.4 would be nice.


Did I miss the 1.4 release thread? Is it out and ready for public consumption?


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## FarFromStock (Mar 16, 2009)

FarFromStock said:


> Did I miss the 1.4 release thread? Is it out and ready for public consumption?


Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Soon... We decided we didn't want to mess with the old site any more + that the manual had to be updated, but, well, soooooonnn...


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## FarFromStock (Mar 16, 2009)

Qer said:


> Soon... We decided we didn't want to mess with the old site any more + that the manual had to be updated, but, well, soooooonnn...


Thanks Qer! Can't wait to see the new site and, of course, v1.4.


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## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

Is there a way to make the Evnetics Throttle Pot Box start at less than 150 ohms instead of 1K?

Would like to use it with my Zilla..


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

No, the pot they use only goes down to a little below 1k as I remember, which seems to be common with most auto TPS's.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

FarFromStock said:


> Thanks Qer! Can't wait to see the new site and, of course, v1.4.


The web interface and functionality were changed quite a bit in 1.4 so when you do get it, please Read The "Fine" Manual! I practically rewrote the entire thing and there's a lot more information in it besides what had to be added to explain the new functions.




Travdude said:


> Is there a way to make the Evnetics Throttle Pot Box start at less than 150 ohms instead of 1K?
> 
> Would like to use it with my Zilla..


Nope - the initial resistance value could be anything from 0.8k to 1.6k. 

So, I guess you'll have to see if Otmar is willing to modify the throttle calibration routine in the Zilla if you really want to use our throttle assembly with his controllers.


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## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

All right, sure is a nice throttle, thanks for the answers.


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## Gozer (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton1 - Newbie*

I have just finished reading every thread , the manual 3 times and hope to someday be a usefull contributor to this forum. 

For now, all I have are questions, most so basic that it is unfair to expect Jeff to return emails or phone calls on things that other members of this forum can easily answer. It might encourage other "lurkers" like me to come forward and potential customers to come forward and help support an amazing project.

I am into my second year and my friends and family who initially dismissed my endeavors are taking a second look as the wheels are spinning (on the rack) from my 48 volt starter pack.

My question today is ...........

I am trying to hook my 20-60 volt westtech voltmeter to output 1.
I change the program to label it "battery voltage", used the red wire to output 1 and the black to ground. I did have the unit powered up and full 48 volts to the controller.

What am I missing. I admit there is a circuit called illustration 6 in the manual that is difficult to view. 

Thanks.

George
Wilmington,DE


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton1 - Newbie*



Gozer said:


> I have just finished reading every thread , the manual 3 times and hope to someday be a usefull contributor to this forum.
> 
> For now, all I have are questions, most so basic that it is unfair to expect Jeff to return emails or phone calls on things that other members of this forum can easily answer. It might encourage other "lurkers" like me to come forward and potential customers to come forward and help support an amazing project.
> 
> ...


I could be wrong, but I believe that when the output of a soliton is set to battery voltage it is scaled down so that maximum battery voltage is 12 or 15v, this is to interface with stock "12v" gauges.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

The new version of our website (though still a work in progress) is now live. You can download controller software version 1.4 AND the much improved manual from: http://www.evnetics.com/index.php/support

Gozer: your 20V-60V direct-reading Westech voltmeter is not compatible with the gauge driver output function in the Soliton controllers. Please download the new manual and 1.4 software package then refer to pp15-16 for more detail about the gauge driver functions.


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## Gozer (Jul 3, 2008)

Fantastic!

I thank you both.

George


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## FarFromStock (Mar 16, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> The new version of our website (though still a work in progress) is now live. You can download controller software version 1.4 AND the much improved manual from: http://www.evnetics.com/index.php/support


Well done guys!


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> The new version of our website (though still a work in progress) is now live. You can download controller software version 1.4 AND the much improved manual from: http://www.evnetics.com/index.php/support


Much better Web site and fantastic new manual!

Not all dealers are listed though


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

dimitri said:


> Not all dealers are listed though


Most of the new site is written in such a way that I do the coding and general design, but to avoid total engrishification of the site there's a backend where those that speak NATIVE english can compose the actual text content without me having to convert text documents to html over and over (I'm a lazy bum, this way I avoid the boring bits  ).

The dealer page is one of those that DOESN'T have a backend (yet), thus it's just copy-pasted from the old page. It's on my todo-list to do a proper backend for that page too, but suddenly I'm busy doing exploratory for that new crazy brain child of those dudes over in raisins paradise(*).

But, well, it's on my todo-list. Kindly don't hold your breath, I'd like you to stay alive and kicking here in the forum...

(*) By some odd reason much of the raisins sold in Sweden come from Florida. Don't ask me why...


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Qer said:


> (*) By some odd reason much of the raisins sold in Sweden come from Florida. Don't ask me why...


That is how they convinced you to write the code . Those raisins are special just for you.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

GizmoEV said:


> That is how they convinced you to write the code . Those raisins are special just for you.


Damn. They've planned this for decades! How fiendish!


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Is it alright to connect my elcon 2000+ charger directly to the solition jr. battery terminals or should I make that connection closer to the battery pack?

I know it seems like a bit of a silly question but I recall Tess mentioning in a previous post that the ripple from the controller can cause problems with chargers and dc/dc converters if they are connected directly to the controller.

Shane


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Is it alright to connect my elcon 2000+ charger directly to the solition jr. battery terminals or should I make that connection closer to the battery pack?...


This is really something that Elcon should address, but the last time I took a peek inside an Elcon I saw that the output did have an appropriate size inductor to filter out ripple.

That said, if you really want to be safe - and protect the DC/DC converter which almost certainly does not have an appropriate inductor on its HV input - then you can order one from Mouser, Digi-Key, etc... The inductor needs to 50uH or more and sized to handle the full DC current to/from the device without saturating. Powdered Iron toroid cores are ideal; rod/drum ferrites are ok; ferrite toroids are awful.

I can't be more specific because you didn't specify the pack voltage.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for your response Tess. I appreciate your suggestion to contact Elcon; however, I honestly doubt I'd have much luck getting a definative reponse from them (the charger doesn't even come with an instruction/installation manual). 

That being said I recognize that it's not Evnetics responsibility to ensure the protection of another companies products and appreciate any advise you might have.

The pack voltage for my conversion is 160V.

So just to clarify: if I moved the DC/DC connection (an IOTA DLS-55) and the Charger closer to the battery (giving about 6 ft of 2/0 cable between the controller and the charger/ DC/DC) would that significantly improve the protection of these components or does it not make much difference?

I'll definately pursuing your suggested inductor recommendation as well. 

I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion on this topic in the forum (and elsewhere). The only place I see it mentioned is as a note in the soliton manual. It seems as though it would be a common concern. Maybe everyone's figured it out already but me


Shane


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Personally I'd put a contactor/relay that disconnect the DC/DC when ignition is on just to be on the safe side. If you don't know what the caps in the DC/DC (can't) take there's no way of telling what's safe and what's not.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> The pack voltage for my conversion is 160V.
> 
> So just to clarify: if I moved the DC/DC connection (an IOTA DLS-55) and the Charger closer to the battery (giving about 6 ft of 2/0 cable between the controller and the charger/ DC/DC) would that significantly improve the protection of these components or does it not make much difference?


No, the inductance of the pack wiring won't make much difference, especially if the + and - cables are run side by side as is also recommended in the manual.



Yukon_Shane said:


> I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion on this topic in the forum (and elsewhere). The only place I see it mentioned is as a note in the soliton manual. It seems as though it would be a common concern. Maybe everyone's figured it out already but me


Here's one recent thread discussing the same problem:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...-fusesi-59890.html?highlight=inductor+charger

Lee Hart wrote an article on ruggedizing the IOTA DLS chargers that is archived on EVDL:

http://www.evdl.org/pages/iotamods.html

His suggestions have good technical merit but implementing all of them seems impractical to me for such an inexpensive product. Just accept that it will die an early death and hope that in the future a better quality product is available to replace it (who knows, we might even make one).


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Qer said:


> Personally I'd put a contactor/relay that disconnect the DC/DC when ignition is on just to be on the safe side.


Did you mean when the ignition is off? Because I'd like to have my 12V system functional when I'm driving


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The Iota DLS-55 shouldn't have any problems being connected close to the controller. The caps in the Iota won't try to filter any controller ripple because the Iota power input starts with a bridge rectifier, preventing the input from supplying current.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Did you mean when the ignition is off? Because I'd like to have my 12V system functional when I'm driving


Doh. I blame running a slight fever. By some reason I mixed up DC/DC and charger, which is an, um, odd mistake to do.

Please carry on. Don't mind my rambling.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Question, would an AC controller have less, more, or the same potential for ripple effects on other components.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

EVfun said:


> The Iota DLS-55 shouldn't have any problems being connected close to the controller. The caps in the Iota won't try to filter any controller ripple because the Iota power input starts with a bridge rectifier, preventing the input from supplying current.


That's half true... literally. The bridge will block the current outflow from the caps during the troughs in the ripple, but it won't stop the current inflow during the peaks. The net effect is that the caps see half the ripple.



JRP3 said:


> Question, would an AC controller have less, more, or the same potential for ripple effects on other components.


This is woefully OT, but the ripple reflected from an AC controller is much lower than a comparable size DC controller. DC controllers can be operated in multiphase which reduces ripple to the inverse proportion of the phase number, but multiphase controllers require a summing inductor for each phase so it's not very attractive from a cost/benefit standpoint.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks, that was my suspicion, and I wondered how concerned I should be with my new Mean Well power supply in my system.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> ...(who knows, we might even make one).


I would LOVE to see an evnetics dc/dc! As exciting as the development of Big Sol is I think what us DIYers really need is a good quality dc/dc converters and a quality charger that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Thanks again

Shane


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Yukon_Shane said:


> I would LOVE to see an evnetics dc/dc! As exciting as the development of Big Sol is I think what us DIYers really need is a good quality dc/dc converters and a quality charger that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Shane


+1! A High power density charger of EVnetics build quality is badly missing in the electric revolution.

And, on the subject of customer support, a HUGE thumbs up to EVnetics for excellent long distance service, no expense spared. Even got a free Tee Shirt
Steve


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd like to see a DC/DC that could put out say 14V when the car is on then drop to maybe 12.8V when the car is off to keep a battery topped off and phantom loads powered without over charging.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> I'd like to see a DC/DC that could put out say 14V when the car is on then drop to maybe 12.8V when the car is off to keep a battery topped off and phantom loads powered without over charging.


And a mode where it puts a maximum voltage out of 13.6V so that 4 LiFePO4 cells could be used as a backup battery without them getting overcharged.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I'd like to see a DC/DC that could put out say 14V when the car is on then drop to maybe 12.8V when the car is off to keep a battery topped off and phantom loads powered without over charging.





GizmoEV said:


> And a mode where it puts a maximum voltage out of 13.6V so that 4 LiFePO4 cells could be used as a backup battery without them getting overcharged.


Mmmm. Feeping creaturism. I'm surprised noone has suggested coffee brewing capability yet. It usually comes up sooner or later...


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm from Seattle, the coffee brewing capability was assumed.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

GizmoEV said:


> And a mode where it puts a maximum voltage out of 13.6V so that 4 LiFePO4 cells could be used as a backup battery without them getting overcharged.





JRP3 said:


> I'd like to see a DC/DC that could put out say 14V when the car is on then drop to maybe 12.8V when the car is off...


How about just setting the output voltage to the standard float voltage of 13.8V??? Sometimes I wonder if DIYers actually like to complicate things...


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Sounds perfect, I'll take 5


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> How about just setting the output voltage to the standard float voltage of 13.8V??? Sometimes I wonder if DIYers actually like to complicate things...


Of course we do  I'm using a small AGM battery so I'm keeping it around 13.2, but even at that level the converter seems to be running more than necessary, and my accessories would probably be happier at 14 or higher. Since the Mean Well has a speed control on the fan I can hear it speed up and drop down as load changes, and with nothing other than phantom loads I can hear it slow down and then speed up again constantly. I can reduce the cycling if I lower the voltage to around 12.8 but that's too low for running accessories. I'm probably obsessing over nothing, but that's what we do.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Qer said:


> Mmmm. Feeping creaturism. I'm surprised noone has suggested coffee brewing capability yet. It usually comes up sooner or later...


I'd be happy with one that isn't disposable and looks like it belongs under the hood of my car rather then inside a computer case


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> How about just setting the output voltage to the standard float voltage of 13.8V??? Sometimes I wonder if DIYers actually like to complicate things...


Because "standard" float voltage for LiFePO4 is 3.4Vpc. At least that is what is on the CALB spec sheet and seems to match what I find when charging to that point with low currents at the end. Maybe just have a couple of "trim" pins like on a Vicor type DC-DC converter. Then the end user can trim up or down with a simple resistor across the pins. Set the default to the float voltage of a lead acid battery.

One thing I like about the Sure Power DC-DC in my Gizmo is it has a switched output and an unswitched output. It uses 13.5V as its nominal output voltage with a min of 13V and max of 14V. It also has a very low idle current compared to other DC-DCs I've looked at.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi guys


My new Soliton 1 just destroyed my motor.....

I take the week to instaled the new Soliton 1 on my Smart Fortwo.
Well tonight, I connect the battery and the motor to the controller and I started the web interface.
I start to modify the low voltage error by setting the minimum pack voltage at 140v and after that, no more error. I try to calibrate my throttle and set the max amp on battery and motor.
I restart the controller and it did show any error, but the motor don't turn.
So, after few try, I decide to reset the default setting.

At this moment: I clic on the default icon and my motor start to spin at high speed...... 3 sec later, ''BANG''.... and some fume come from the motor......

Controller default?? Connection default?? Throttle default?? Program default??... My motor!


Thanks god, the transmission was in neutral............. Can you imagine if not.....


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> At this moment: I clic on the default icon and my motor start to spin at high speed...... 3 sec later, ''BANG''.... and some fume come from the motor......
> 
> Controller default?? Connection default?? Throttle default?? Program default??... My motor!


Why do you feel the controller is responsible?

Did you record a log file with logger (probably not but I have to ask anyway)?

Where do you get the throttle signal from?

I guess you don't have a tach sensor connected, either, eh?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Why do you feel the controller is responsible?


Because I can't imagine why the controller can destroy a motor just by pressing on a icon.




> Did you record a log file with logger (probably not but I have to ask anyway)?


No. Half an hour since the ''big bang'' and I still shaking...




> Where do you get the throttle signal from?


I use the original pot from the Smart throttle (2k-3.5k signal). I buy the controller from Dimitri (mini bms) and he suggest that to me:

_See attached diagram. You need to add 5K resistor to make a voltage divider from your 2 wire throttle._
_You can connect 2 wires from your throttle in any polarity, it makes no difference. Just follow attached diagram._


No tach at this moment... I was planned to the future, but it no more a necessity right now!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Because I can't imagine why the controller can destroy a motor just by pressing on a icon.


Me either, but you definitely did something which you are warned not to do in the manual...



Yabert said:


> I use the original pot from the Smart throttle (2k-3.5k signal). I buy the controller from Dimitri (mini bms) and he suggest that to me:
> 
> _See attached diagram. You need to add 5K resistor to make a voltage divider from your 2 wire throttle._
> _You can connect 2 wires from your throttle in any polarity, it makes no difference. Just follow attached diagram._
> ...


Ok, here's a good clue. I don't care what ANYBODY else says, in the manual you are strongly advised to not use a 2 wire throttle like the Curtis PB-6. If you wired a resistor from THROT to S5V to be able to use a 2 wire throttle anyway then understand that what you just did was make the throttle signal "normally floored". Needless to say, this is an intrinsically unsafe scheme (and why I advise against it in the manual). 

The controller demands that the throttle signal be at or below the voltage it considers "zero" on startup, but as soon as the throttle signal does go to zero it will then follow it. If the throttle signal went to zero because of an intermittent connection (in the pullup resistor to S5V or the throttle signal wire) then it is possible for the throttle input to go to zero, though not for the right reason.

My guess is that if you were to run logger now you will see an erratic throttle signal even if you aren't touching the accelerator pedal.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

My AC motor did the same thing once, (without the destruction part), when I hooked the throttle up backwards and turned on the key. Sounds like throttle hookup error.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Me either, but you definitely did something which you are warned not to do in the manual...


?????


Anyway, fuck, shit, damn... my motor is dead by pressing on a icon.....but by a good idea, I don't killed any people tonight. And I don't destroyed my car, the car of the neighbouring, his house, the next house.... just by pressing on an icon and it's probably the good new of the day.

Logger tomorrow!

Thanks for the answer Tess


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Having a throttle with non zero voltage at released pedal is not against the rules, afterall, all automotive TPS sensors have non zero value at the starting point. The issue here , in my opinion, is that you reset values to default, which reset throttle calibration, which made the controller interpret non zero value from the throttle as a signal to run the motor. At the same time you did not have RPM limit setup, which is a must in my opinion, to prevent motor destruction. And why didn't you yank the key switch in those few seconds while it was spinning up? It seems like a really bad combination of multiple factors, which caused such results.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The unloaded spin up was probably pretty quick, especially if he was messing with a computer at the time.


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## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm not a solitron owner, and this might be a dumb question... But can you hook up up 12v to the controller and use your computer to set the defaults before installing it?


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## patrickza (Dec 28, 2009)

Ah sorry to hear this. Time to open it up and see the damage, maybe it will be repairable.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> ...my motor is dead by pressing on a icon.....


Ok, think I figured out what happened...

The controller only checks to make sure the throttle is in the calibrated zero position on startup (even if zero is actually, say, 2V). However, pressing the _Factory defaults_ button returns all non-factory calibrated settings, _including throttle calibration_, back to their default values. So your throttle was putting out a non-zero voltage when you hit the _Factory defaults_ button and bam, the motor took off like a scalded chimp. In retrospect, we ought to either re-disable throttle after hitting _Factory defaults_, or perform the zero position check again. I prefer the latter solution myself.

Upon re-reading the manual I also see that I did not explain the behavior of _Factory defaults_ in sufficient detail, probably because I viewed the button as something which was mainly for our benefit when testing controllers on the dyno prior to shipment - we change a lot of settings during dyno testing and having a _Factory defaults _button allowed us to reset them all quickly without missing anything.

I also eliminated all references to kludging a 2-wire throttle from the latest version of the manual, mainly because I didn't even want to hint that it was possible. This is because you have to install a pull-up resistor between the 5V supply to the throttle input to use a 2-wire pot but if either the throttle signal or ground wire then breaks the throttle signal goes to maximum - not a good failure mode, and one of the reasons I dissuade people from using the Curtis PB-6 (besides that it is junk).

So I admit that I could have done a better job of warning about such things in the manual. We can't foresee every mistake and fault that might occur but we do try to learn from each new one that our customers concoct.

However, the controller gave you several clues that something was wrong and it has many functions - such as the tach and brake inputs - which could have been enabled to prevent this disaster from occurring. Not much use in harping on that now, but I have to point it out since you decided to post about your problems in a public forum FIRST, rather than contact us.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

madmike8 said:


> I'm not a solitron owner, and this might be a dumb question... But can you hook up up 12v to the controller and use your computer to set the defaults before installing it?


Not only you can, but you SHOULD configure the controller by powering it via 12V prior to connecting it to the motor!

Also, just to clarify one point, I did advise Yabert not to use 2 wire pot and switch to EVnetics or HEPA 3 wire throttle, but since his throttle is OEM, not some PB6 junk, and its fully integrated in original pedal assembly in the car, he naturally preferred to use it instead.

While it is true that using pull up resistor to convert 2 wire into 3 wire presents a risk of uncontrolled full throttle event if pot or wiring fails, similar level of risk exists even with 3 wire pot and/or HEPA devices, which could fail in fully open position, and its arguable if one risk is higher than the other (assuming use of OEM TPS pots in both cases, not junk PB6).

If someone decides to pull up 2 wire pot despite all warnings, at least run 5V to the pot and install resistor at the pot, rather than at the controller, so if throttle wire fails, there is less risk of pulling up controller's input AT the controller's terminal strip.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

dimitri said:


> ..
> Also, just to clarify one point, I did advise Yabert not to use 2 wire pot and switch to EVnetics or HEPA 3 wire throttle, but since his throttle is OEM, not some PB6 junk, and its fully integrated in original pedal assembly in the car, he naturally preferred to use it instead....


And most OEM throttle position sensors (including the one used in our throttle assembly) output a non-zero voltage at the zero position, leading to the now obvious disaster if the _Factory defaults_ button is pressed...


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Thanks god, the transmission was in neutral............. Can you imagine if not.....


I'm sorry about your misfortune Yabert. I just want to relate a precaution I always use when working on the propulsion system live in the vehicle (car or bike). Jack the powered wheel(s) up off the ground and chock the other wheels.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, a bit under panic (I hope you can understand), I was thinking than the Soliton 1 customer support thread will be the best place to try to have some answer. 

Try to understand me correctly, I know than you build really good product. In fact, I choose the Soliton because I know than you supply incredibly high quality controller with many really good feature (limit motor rpm is one of those!).

Also, since more than two years now, I read many of your comment on this forum and I have learned a lot by this reading. Your support to the EV communauty is impressive and apreciate. I’m able now to said than you are a really competent person with an incredible understanding of the high power electronic device and other EV relate subject. I have full confident on your advice like some other great brain member here on the forum (Dimitri, Major, etc…). I hope than all people who read than the Soliton 1 have blow my motor can be able to understand than I think they don’t currently have any other better powerful controller than the Soliton’s. I choose it because it’s the more powerful, bulletproof, idiotproof, full great feature controller available today… But like many other life thing, this one wasn’t 100% idiotproof! (probably 99.5% instead).

It sad to said, but if I have to do the same thing with another controller (initiale programmation), my motor was still ok because other controller ''can'' have the main contactor disable when you programed it. And when you restart, they ''can'' express the fault and you will need to modified some parameter. In my case, I haven't any chance to modified some parameter...
I think that can be a really good thing if the Soliton1 can be automatically disable the main contactors when you press the factory default icon!!


Many thanks to you Dimitri about share with us about my good quality factory build pot throttle and the problem I have with it.


I know Major.... it's why there was wood bloc under and over the wheel and it's why I have thinked to verified to put the transmission in neutral before plug the laptop. But that can finish differently for another guy who can reproduce this specific bad luck combination.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

dimitri said:


> And why didn't you yank the key switch in those few seconds while it was spinning up?


Well, one and half sec to hear and understand than isn't my cooling blower.... I turn my head over the controller and finaly over the laptop page to try to understand what happen..... oups! too late. The motor is dead!
3 sec can be really short. The key switch was at only few inchs from my hand...., but 3 sec was to short!


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Sorry for your loss Yabert

A very good reason to try to fit an RPM sensor from the outset, though of course, this needs setting up and testing, which may require a running motor, all of which requires delving into the settings page..


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> ... I was thinking than the Soliton 1 customer support thread will be the best place to try to have some answer.


Yes, well, please note that I did not start this thread. 



Yabert said:


> I think that can be a really good thing if the Soliton1 can be automatically disable the main contactors when you press the factory default icon!!


We are considering that or making the button available only after first disabling the controller (ie - to calibrate throttle). In the meantime I will edit the manual to more prominently warn about the Factory defaults button and the dangers of using 2-wire pots or the OEM throttle signal.


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> And most OEM throttle position sensors (including the one used in our throttle assembly) output a non-zero voltage at the zero position, leading to the now obvious disaster if the _Factory defaults_ button is pressed...


This is the case with the OEM TPS in my EV Jetta. Once when I was performing some setting tweaks I clicked on the 'factory default' button and the car started to take off down the driveway! Fortunately the non-zero voltage of the Jetta TPS was only about 2 volts, so I was able to stop the car with the brakes and kill the ignition.
I made sure to never click on the 'factory defaults' button again with the car in gear after that experience...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

azdeltawye said:


> This is the case with the OEM TPS in my EV Jetta. Once when I was performing some setting tweaks I clicked on the 'factory default' button and the car started to take off down the driveway! Fortunately the non-zero voltage of the Jetta TPS was only about 2 volts, so I was able to stop the car with the brakes and kill the ignition.


 
Wow! And with the transmission engaged!! 

Thank you for sharing this with us. It's comforting to know that I am not a pure idiot. If this can happening to you (a guy who can build an awesome electric Jetta) that can happen to anyone. None need to be an idiot to create this problem. Just need to be very unlucky. 

So Tess, if I understand correctly the Soliton1/Jr software package version *1.5* will coming soon....


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> ...So Tess, if I understand correctly the Soliton1/Jr software package version *1.5* will coming soon....


No, the manual will be edited and updated soon. As you may now appreciate much better, every change to the controller code must be tested as thoroughly as possible to make sure the change didn't cause something else to stop working properly.

In the meantime, don't press the _Factory defaults_ button until you have first pressed the _Disable controller_ button...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I think I just found another incredibly bad new ... probably much worse than to know that my engine is blow.

Watch the error code on the picture.

From the the Soliton Manual: _ADC out of range – temp sensor disconnected or other fatal problem_... Please NOOooo!!!!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> I think I just found another incredibly bad new ... probably much worse than to know that my engine is blow.


No, that's a relatively minor error to fix. Please check your PMs.


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## Dougnutz (Aug 22, 2011)

Way back at the beginning of this thread...



Tesseract said:


> This is an incredibly popular request but we haven't quite decided on the best way to implement it (without cluttering up the web interface page). We would really like to work with someone (hint, hint) to take the performance data the controller continuously streams to the ethernet port and turn it into pretty graphs and stuff for display in the car. We would like to make that whole spec open source and are willing to modify the data stream format as needed to facilitate such. Oops.. look at me, volunteering Qer (aka SPD - Swedish Programmer Dude; aka Martin) for even more work...


This lines up perfectly with a little pet project I have going. I'm working on a touchscreen interface for my EV that will display runtime data, range estimations, and alerts. It's based on the .Net gadgeteer http://www.netmf.com/gadgeteer/ SO when I read that the Soliton is outputing this stream of data it got my attention. Is there any documentation about this data stream?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Dougnutz said:


> ...SO when I read that the Soliton is outputing this stream of data it got my attention. Is there any documentation about this data stream?


Yep. There is some detail in the manual and in a text document in the 1.4 software package. Both can be downloaded from: http://www.evnetics.com/index.php/support


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## Dennis (Feb 25, 2008)

Jeff, are you at the point now to where enough profit is made that you guys can afford to buy a 250 KW DC power supply from Magna Power? In particular, the model MTA375-660, which is 0 to 375 volts DC variable at 0 to 660 amps variable. It would seem to me that for Q and A testing that going with this power supply would allow long term testing of 24 hours of your Soliton Jrs. at full voltage and current rating output and allow full voltage input of your Soliton 1 and SHIVA, but must set the output motor volts to less so that you can stress the IGBT's at the controllers' continuous current ratings for those models since motor controllers are basically DC-DC converters and the power supply is limited to 660 amps, but still the power supply would be enough to test all the controllers at their max continuous current ratings in a simulated environment of 50C @ 12 hours to -40C @ 12 hours.

You would definitely destroy all the EV motors because of the time duration at high currents, so you would have to devise a load bank of some sort or spend a ridiculous amount on a 250 HP industrial DC motor which your dyno would not even put a decent load on something like that.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Dennis said:


> Jeff, are you at the point now to where enough profit is made that you guys can afford to buy a 250 KW DC power supply from Magna Power?


No. Evnetics is still - amazingly/depressingly enough - not profitable. That is to say, my net income from Evnetics in 2010 was a negative number (ie - a reported loss for my share of the company).

Magna Power makes some fantastic power supplies, but I doubt any of their products will ever be in the budget for us. I don't even want to think about what the PSU you referenced would cost... My guess is $0.50 to $1 per W, or $125K to $250K.



Dennis said:


> It would seem to me that for Q and A testing that going with this power supply would allow long term testing of 24 hours of your Soliton Jrs...


In other words, you feel we would derive some form of commercial advantage from actually testing each of our controllers for 24 hours across a wide range of environmental conditions. That is undoubtedly true of our industrial customers (of which we really ought to concentrate more on) but I don't think DIYers would be willing to pay $10K to $15K for each _Soliton Jr_ as that is what we would have to charge to justify the costs in labor and equipment for that kind of QC testing!

My observation is that the DIY market does not value these metrics sufficiently. Peak power per dollar is often the only metric given serious consideration. It is almost to the point where it seems that such features like built-in contactors and a superior web-based UI are assigned a value of $0 by prospective customers (I base that in part on a recent comparison that was made between us and Synkromotive, and the latter controller was chosen over our Jr).


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## fjbehning (May 5, 2010)

Jeff, you know I don't post here as a rule, but I had to jump in on this one.

The main reason I chose the Soliton1 over the AC50/Curtis combo was the level of integration (built-in contractors, liquid cooling, accessible connections) and web-based admin. I couldn't see dropping $500 on some arcane dongle or Window$ based set-up software. On top of that, the care and expertise that went into the engineering of the controller is miles ahead of anything else I see in the market.

The performance potential is great, but as you know, I run mine in a very small car with very conservative settings and I have not regretted the choice in any way. I have also just experienced the most positive and amazing customer service from Evnetics and will be forever grateful for that.

I wish you profitability in the short term and prosperity in the longer term for the most selfish of reasons. I want you guys to be in business and at the leading edge of technology the next time I'm ready to buy a controller. Or CHARGER!

Fred


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

fjbehning said:


> Jeff, you know I don't post here as a rule, but I had to jump in on this one.
> 
> The main reason I chose the Soliton1 over the AC50/Curtis combo was the level of integration (built-in contractors, liquid cooling, accessible connections) and web-based admin. I couldn't see dropping $500 on some arcane dongle or Window$ based set-up software. On top of that, the care and expertise that went into the engineering of the controller is miles ahead of anything else I see in the market.
> 
> ...


I have to strongly agree with this post. I gave serious consideration to the synchromotive controller before deciding to purchase the soliton Jr. In the end it was the built in contactors, water cooling and continious power rating that were the deciding factors and really made this choice a no brainer. 

Peak power is always going to catch peoples attention but my personnal opinion is that it's this type of integration and superior design that will sway purchase decisions (particularly in a market where the merit of any particular product are so seriously scrutinized). 

At this point there are a few controller products that provide more then adequate power at a reasonable price and I strongly believe it will be the companies that can offer better/more features that will dominate this market. 

Now if the synchromotive controller can actually make good on it's promise to integrate a battery charger that might make it worth taking another look at.


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

Hi Jeff,
I have to chime in here on this one....
_It is almost to the point where it seems that such features like built-in contactors and a superior web-based UI are assigned a value of $0 by prospective customers_ 

I would say outside of DIY's comparison, _most _of our customers who purchased the Solitons did so specifically for these two reasons. Also, with previous controllers, the number 1 complaint/misunderstanding was with the precharge circuit. That created the most problems by far on EV conversions, and with you incorporating this into the EVnetics line is a major value added feature.
Mike
www.EV-propulsion.com


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

fjbehning said:


> The main reason I chose the Soliton....was the level of integration (built-in contractors, liquid cooling, accessible connections) and web-based admin.


Ditto.

Those features -- the fact that it's an all-in-one solution for the DIYer -- combined with your customer service are your competitive advantage. Don't get sucked into the idea that people want lower quality.

(not to mention the sykromotive simply had too many 'mystery features' to be a reasonable option for me.)


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

lowcrawler said:


> Ditto.
> 
> Those features -- the fact that it's an all-in-one solution for the DIYer -- combined with your customer service are your competitive advantage. Don't get sucked into the idea that people want lower quality.


Lacking those features does not necessarily mean lower quality, it means different choices. Quality is a separate issue, and I have not read anything bad about either controller or company when it comes to quality or customer service. Just because Evnetics is awesome doesn't by default mean that other companies are not. fwiw.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

dladd said:


> Quality is a separate issue


You are correct... my apologies for muddying the waters.

However, it is true that not including those other features (or not documenting them) is a 'lesser' product.

I was merely making the point that just because Walmart sells well doesn't mean that Macy's should go 'down market'. There are multiple markets for multiple purposes.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If I were in the market for a DC controller the only choice would be an EVNetics product.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

fjbehning said:


> Jeff, you know I don't post here as a rule, but I had to jump in on this one.


Yeah, that you only have one post sort of gives it away... 

It was nice meeting you at EVCCON, btw, and your Sprite conversion was exceptionally well done. Most of the conversions at the convention were well done but for some reason I really liked yours. Must be the goofy grin and headlights...



fjbehning said:


> The main reason I chose the Soliton1 over the AC50/Curtis combo was the level of integration (built-in contractors, liquid cooling, accessible connections) and web-based admin. I couldn't see dropping $500 on some arcane dongle or Window$ based set-up software. _On top of that, the care and expertise that went into the engineering of the controller is miles ahead of anything else I see in the market._


Thanks for the comments. Interesting that you didn't mention regen as enough of a positive contribution to the Curtis combo to, say, offset the premium you have to pay in $/kW for it.

And I am somewhat heartened by your observation that we did put a lot of effort into optimizing the Soliton controllers for conversions. We made several design compromises in favor of "ease of installation" like, for example, the terminal strips for the low voltage connections. On the one hand, I recoil in horror at the use of such antiquated interconnects which are only marginally weatherproof (and that is thanks to dabs of silicone!) while on the other hand I have to admit that spade lugs are available just about anywhere in the world which makes for a pretty easy installation... 



fjbehning said:


> ... I want you guys to be in business and at the leading edge of technology the next time I'm ready to buy a controller. Or CHARGER!
> 
> Fred


Oh, we aren't in any danger of going out of business, but we aren't getting rich, either. S'alright, we'll keep cranking out the weird and wonderful (I hope!) because that's what we do best.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I have a few specific questions regarding the Soliton Jr....

- without water cooling what kind of 'continuous' amps can I pull without thermal limiting kicking in? assuming standard conditions like 70 degree ambient air in a typical engine bay without direct ducting to force more air over fins, etc.

- after a 'burst' acceleration of say 10 seconds at 500amps, and then maintaining at something like 100amps what would be the aproximate time of recovery be for the temp to drop enough where another 500 amp burst could occur without thermal limiting?

- is there any way to get a configurable voltage out corresponding to ah (to run to OEM fuel gauge). This would require configurable parameters for ahr capacity, and 'reset to full' at end-of charge to account for drift eventually? or must you use evDisplay or CycleAnalyst or something like that for ahr counter?


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> - is there any way to get a configurable voltage out corresponding to ah (to run to OEM fuel gauge). This would require configurable parameters for ahr capacity, and 'reset to full' at end-of charge to account for drift eventually? or must you use evDisplay or CycleAnalyst or something like that for ahr counter?


It's my understanding the Soltion doesn't have this capability --- but it would be AWESOME if they did.

hint hint.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> I have a few specific questions regarding the Soliton Jr....
> 
> - without water cooling what kind of 'continuous' amps can I pull without thermal limiting kicking in? assuming standard conditions like 70 degree ambient air in a typical engine bay without direct ducting to force more air over fins, etc.


Somewhere between 200 and 400. I can't be more precise because I don't know the pack voltage (conduction losses only increase with current but switching losses increase with voltage and current) nor do I know how much heat the controller might pick up from the *motor*. 

People tend to forget that the motor sheds a lot more heat than the controller and so it determines the ambient temperature in the engine compartment. I used an infrared thermometer to measure the temperature of various surfaces inside a conversion last year and one startling example was that the temperature on the side of the 12V battery facing the motor was 158F (70C) while the side facing away was 86F (30C). 

In other words, the answer to your question depends a lot on where the controller is mounted in relation to the motor (note that this caveat applies to *any* controller).



dtbaker said:


> - after a 'burst' acceleration of say 10 seconds at 500amps, and then maintaining at something like 100amps what would be the aproximate time of recovery be for the temp to drop enough where another 500 amp burst could occur without thermal limiting?


That depends on the weight of the vehicle as well as the ambient temp and pack voltage ie, (as above). My WAG, not knowing any of these details, is that you would at worse be restricted to 400A on subsequent accelerations (ie, stoplight to stoplight) with air-cooling alone.



dtbaker said:


> - is there any way to get a configurable voltage out corresponding to ah (to run to OEM fuel gauge). This would require configurable parameters for ahr capacity, and 'reset to full' at end-of charge to account for drift eventually? or must you use evDisplay or CycleAnalyst or something like that for ahr counter?


Okay, there are 4 separate reasons why it is difficult, if not outright pointless, for the controller to calculate Ah (Amp-hours):

1. Fuel gauges vary wildly in how they operate. Some use a variable resistance which is inversely proportional to fuel level, some use one that is proportional to fuel level, some a variable voltage and some are linked to their sending unit through CAN bus. Needless to say, this rapidly becomes a technical support nightmare. Indeed, that is why we dropped the rather crude SoC gauge driver function from the controller a few code revisions ago.

2. The current sensor in the motor controller doesn't need to be super accurate to do its job well. The type we use in our controllers is accurate to +/-2%, so it could be off by 10A in a 500A controller and still be within spec. That's fine for a motor controller, but not so good for a battery Ah-counter. Note that the error is multiplied by the duty cycle, so that it will be less significant at low currents and more significant at high currents.

3. The controller does not see any loads drawn by accessories connected to the battery pack such as the heater, dc/dc converter, vacuum pump, etc.

4. Measuring Ah requires pretty heavy math... It is, after all, the integral of average current over time and the accuracy depends greatly on minimizing the time sliced used to average the current. 

It would be possible for another device (like, say, an Android tablet) to use the logging data from the controller to calculate Ah, but the accuracy of its results would still be subject to the #2 and #3 above.

Thus, if you want to count Ah, then a standalone device is more or less necessary.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

aaahhhhh, now THIS is all very good information. 




Tesseract said:


> Somewhere between 200 and 400. I can't be more precise because I don't know the pack voltage (conduction losses only increase with current but switching losses increase with voltage and current)


sounds reasonable, and in line with what I'd expect. My Swift at 120v pulling 200amps thru the wimpy Curtis 1221c up a long steady hill at highway speed starts cutting down after 15 minutes or so... and that is with a really pretty good heat-sink with a direct hoodscoop forcing air over it and mounted NOT over the motor. I would expect the Soliton to do a little better with more efficient guts, but still be limited by how much heat can be dumped to air, even high volumes of air.

My future 'fun' build of my Sunbeam Alpine will be either 144v or maybe 156v if I have room...



Tesseract said:


> People tend to forget that the motor sheds a lot more heat than the controller and so it determines the ambient temperature in the engine compartment. ...depends a lot on where the controller is mounted in relation to the motor (note that this caveat applies to *any* controller).


absolutely agree. 
In my case, I did the best I could to basically insulate the controller from the motor... locating the controller vertically in front of the motor, and constructing a duct with hood scoop with heatsink away from motor, hoping for a good airflow between while moving, and at least insulation from radiant heat when stopped.




Tesseract said:


> My WAG, not knowing any of these details, is that you would at worse be restricted to 400A on subsequent accelerations (ie, stoplight to stoplight) with air-cooling alone.


thats plenty and probably where I would set the limit for 100ah batteries anyway. 



Tesseract said:


> Okay, there are 4 separate reasons why it is difficult, if not outright pointless, for the controller to calculate Ah (Amp-hours):
> 1. Fuel gauges vary wildly in how they operate. ...
> Thus, if you want to count Ah, then a standalone device is more or less necessary.


I had a feeling......


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

We have two Soliton Jr sitting in our warehouse. Someone has come up with a use for them. Could we use a JR for battery testing, with heaters used as a load instead of a motor? Will the lack of inductive resistance of the motor be a problem for the controller?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> We have two Soliton Jr sitting in our warehouse. Someone has come up with a use for them. Could we use a JR for battery testing, with heaters used as a load instead of a motor? Will the lack of inductive resistance of the motor be a problem for the controller?


Yes you can do this but there needs to be a minimum level of inductance present for the current regulation function to work (the lower the inductance the wilder the swings in output current).

You can make a decent load for the controller out of stainless steel tubing formed into a coil. A 20 turn coil of 10-15mm OD tubing with a 10cm inside diameter should be about right. Space the turns as closely as possible without touching by using short lengths of heatshrink tubing as spacing/insulation.

Fill the tubing with sand (or even better, "baking soda", aka, Sodium Bicarbonate) to make it easier to bend without risk of kinking.

Use ABS or PVC sewer pipe as the coil form.

Finally, this sort of abuse is not covered under warranty. If you want the application approved by Evnetics then you have to pay the NRE charge for any testing/modifications required.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Yes you can do this but there needs to be a minimum level of inductance present for the current regulation function to work (the lower the inductance the wilder the swings in output current).
> 
> You can make a decent load for the controller out of stainless steel tubing formed into a coil. A 20 turn coil of 10-15mm OD tubing with a 10cm inside diameter should be about right. Space the turns as closely as possible without touching by using short lengths of heatshrink tubing as spacing/insulation.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Jeffrey! This sounds like you have already tried a similar setup(?)

Do you think that this setup can handle high power (like 100+kW)?



Tesseract said:


> Finally, this sort of abuse is not covered under warranty. If you want the application approved by Evnetics then you have to pay the NRE charge for any testing/modifications required.


Of course, no problem!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

CroDriver said:


> ...This sounds like you have already tried a similar setup(?)


No, I have not tried this.



CroDriver said:


> Do you think that this setup can handle high power (like 100+kW)?...


If you make sure there is at least 100uH of inductance and 0.5 ohm of resistance then you could probably reach of exceed 100kW. It's kind of tough to get the duty cycle up high enough without the back EMF of a motor. However, you could dump the energy from the pack being tested into another, lower voltage, battery pack (you still need inductance!)... This is basically using the Soliton Jr as a "dump charger" which it can do reasonably well. I have tried this before, but I used the field winding of a WarP-9 as the inductor (~100uH).


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

The mention of inductance brought up a question I hadn't considered. I'm using dual 7" Prestolite motors. Eventually I'd like to run the motors permanently in series at around 200V, and the Soliton Junior looks just about ideal for this. But for various reasons I'd prefer to start out a lower voltage, probably 128V. I'd also like to try out series-parallel switching, partly to extend the speed range and partly because I'd like to find out what effect it has on steering control, as I'm driving the front wheels independently.

I understand the inductance of two motors in parallel will be halved, so is this likely to be a problem for Junior, or any other controller for that matter?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

MalcolmB said:


> ...I'd also like to try out series-parallel switching, partly to extend the speed range and partly because I'd like to find out what effect it has on steering control, as I'm driving the front wheels independently.


Well that ought to prove exciting... 



MalcolmB said:


> I understand the inductance of two motors in parallel will be halved, so is this likely to be a problem for Junior, or any other controller for that matter?


Jr won't have a problem with the two Presolite 7" motors in parallel - the default configuration for our dyno is two WarP-9s in parallel - and neither should any other modern PWM controller.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Well that ought to prove exciting...


I suspect you mean foolhardy exciting, rather than "I'd like to try that" exciting.  D'you think it's a worthless exercise?




Tesseract said:


> Jr won't have a problem with the two Presolite 7" motors in parallel - the default configuration for our dyno is two WarP-9s in parallel - and neither should any other modern PWM controller.


Great! Thanks.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

MalcolmB said:


> I suspect you mean foolhardy exciting, rather than "I'd like to try that" exciting.  D'you think it's a worthless exercise?


Yeah, I think that driving two _independent_ motors (ie - without their shafts coupled together) with just one controller is a Really Bad Idea.

Two motors in series see the same current so each will adjust its RPM to whatever is necessary to deliver the same torque. This is like a normal differential, so when one motor loses traction it will immediately zoom up in RPM and hog all of the available voltage, stalling the other motor out.

Two motors in parallel see the same voltage so each will adjust its torque to whatever amount is necessary to maintain the same RPM. At best this is like a limited slip differential, at worst it is like a live axle drive. This is, in my opinion, the least bad way of wiring the two motors. Not a ringing endorsement by any means, nor was it meant to be.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks, that's definitely given me something to chew on.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Yeah, I think that driving two _independent_ motors (ie - without their shafts coupled together) with just one controller is a Really Bad Idea.


Given that this is going into a front-wheel drive, Torque-steer is also going to be a problem, especially with s/p switching.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Ok, this thread is way too quiet now and I can't talk horse manure all day so let's talk software update time!

Here's version 1.5!

*Shiva owners should definitely upgrade*, Jr owners will probably like the changed temperature range, S1 owners might not really notice anything but the version number bump in the web interface and the added verbosity in the error list...

Some happy bullets:


Added a header in logger.txt to make them easier to understand.
Added support for 6 ppt tachometer gauges.
Overtemp warning occurs at 80C in the Soliton Jr as the temperature sensed is inside its IGBT module.
Numeric error codes accompany the verbose ones displayed in the web interface to help with troubleshooting.
Maximum allowed battery pack voltage has been increased to 350V (for Jr/S1).
Minor voltage parameter change for Soliton Shiva
After clicking the "Factory defaults" button, throttle is ignored until it returns to zero.
Fixed bug with swapped min/max in settings.txt for gauge output.
Fixed precharge bug that could make precharge continue indefinitely.
Changed doctype to html (according to html 5 standard) in web interface.
So. There. Nothing revolutionary. Main reason for the release is because of Shiva so all (2?) of you that have a Shiva should make sure it's upgraded.

The rest of you can do as you please I guess...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Qer. This is the future... 

I think it's all "one" of us.... I'm in no rush so they are putting the finishing touches on mine.... I think??


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Well, I usually don't keep track of the actual status of production since, well, it's impractical since I'm on the wrong continent so I wasn't sure if your Shiva was shipped already or not.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

350V max voltage is a nice upgrade!

at a charge level of 3.5V per cell thats 100cells in series = 320V nom.

Any plans on increasing the peak amps output, sort of like you have on the JR. 500 but can burst to 650?

1000A but can burst to 1400A???


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I thought they used to have that feature, then took it away.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I thought they used to have that feature, then took it away.


you are correct, they did.

I guess im asking if there are any plans to re-institute it?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> Any plans on increasing the peak amps output, sort of like you have on the JR. 500 but can burst to 650?
> 
> 1000A but can burst to 1400A???


The burst in Jr is 600 Amps, not 650. And no. The reason Jr can burst is because of the temperature sensor placement. The placement in the S1 means there's more of a delay before the CPU "sees" the temperature raise which means it has to be more conservative with the allowed max current.

To allow the S1 be able to burst to 1200 (or 1400) Ampere would pretty much mean construct a replacement model and I doubt the sales justify such a major change. The S1's already sold will never get bumped to those kinds of currents. That we did it on Jr was because we chose a rather conservative setting to begin with and bumped the current after more extensive testings.



JRP3 said:


> I thought they used to have that feature, then took it away.


What? The fabled racing version of S1? It was decided it wasn't worth it. It would push the safety margins to an absolute minimum for a 40% gain and it would still not be able to compete fairly with the Z2K so we scrapped that idea.

It was never realised or even tested in real life, it was just an idea we toyed with but eventually we decided that if we'd ever go for the racing segment it'd be with a completely new product instead of a beefed up S1. And, well, Shiva is so much better than S1 could ever have turned out no matter what we used to beef it up so I'm convinced it was the right decision.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gotcha, thanks


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks Qer. This is the future...
> 
> I think it's all "one" of us.... I'm in no rush so they are putting the finishing touches on mine.... I think??


Your Shiva has been dyno tested, the silk-screening has been applied, and next up is doing a shakedown run with it in Seb's 911, since that is the only way we currently have of pushing a decent amount of power through one. Kind of tedious, but, well... there ya go.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Your Shiva has been dyno tested, the silk-screening has been applied, and next up is doing a shakedown run with it in Seb's 911, since that is the only way we currently have of pushing a decent amount of power through one. Kind of tedious, but, well... there ya go.


Nice, thanks Jeff. I would love to know how it feels at 2500 amps...  Did he get the clutch to hold?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Nice, thanks Jeff. I would love to know how it feels at 2500 amps...  Did he get the clutch to hold?


Personally I'm more interested in if the new gear box will survive better than the old one...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Qer said:


> Personally I'm more interested in if the new gear box will survive better than the old one...


tough to break the gearbox if the clutch is slipping...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Qer said:


> After clicking the "Factory defaults" button, throttle is ignored until it returns to zero.



Thanks...

350v max is good.... Not for my Smart, but for any 100s battery pack.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Thanks...


Your welcome. But this doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to *think* before randomly pressing buttons in the web interface, you know...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Well, I know!
That can be easy to understand for you (EVnetics Chief Electron Herder), but it can be more dificult for me (a mecanical guy).... and for at least one other guy.

Continue your great job guys!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Your welcome. But this doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to *think* before randomly pressing buttons in the web interface, you know...


On the other hand having a product which can prevent destroying a motor with a mouse click seems like a really good idea for the DIY market, or any market for that matter.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> On the other hand having a product which can prevent destroying a motor with a mouse click seems like a really good idea for the DIY market, or any market for that matter.


While your snark did not go unnoticed, you are otherwise entirely correct.

Yabert is correct as well - I don't see things from the same perspective as him. My approach to solving problems is apparently very different as well, as I would never resort to randomly changing settings to get a balking product to start working. I subscribe to the rule, "never change or even test something unless you have a fair idea of what to expect will happen".

That rule was beat into my head by my EE mentor back in the mid 80's and I've followed his sage advice ever since. Indeed, Seb will confirm that I get really bent out of shape when stuff doesn't behave in the way I expect it to...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> While your snark did not go unnoticed,


I guess I didn't hide it very well, not that I was trying  There was a bit of snark in your reply to Yabert after all...


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I was reading over the Soliton manual and left with a minor question. What is the current draw from the traction pack when the controller is off? Milliamps don't mean much if just sitting over a weekend but something to consider for longer storage.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

EVfun said:


> I was reading over the Soliton manual and left with a minor question. What is the current draw from the traction pack when the controller is off? Milliamps don't mean much if just sitting over a weekend but something to consider for longer storage.


No current at all. The pack voltage monitoring circuit is disconnected when the main contactors are off.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

From Evnetics site

*NOTICE:*

*We are sorry for the inconvenience but we are recalling version 1.5 of the controller software. This is due to a safety concern and is highly advised! Please back annotate your controllers software version to v1.4 until further notices.*

http://www.evnetics.com/index.php


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Hmm, whats that about? I've had no problems with v1.5 so far..

Steve


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

I saw that too (right before I snapped off the motor terminal on my Jr. ... bah) ... any further word?


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

lowcrawler said:


> I saw that too (right before I snapped off the motor terminal on my Jr. ... bah) ... any further word?


Glad I did my motor terminals up before I upgraded to version 1.5 then!!

How did you manage to do that?


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Jozzer said:


> How did you manage to do that?


Just tightening the cable on... it snapped off with very little effort. I did the others much tighter than this one when it snapped... shoot, I did EVERYTHING in the car tighter. If I had to guess I was only at like 20ft-lbs of torque (whereas I probably went to 50-70 on the others)
I suspect it was a faulty bolt or something. The Evnetics guys got back to me in less than 24 hours with an RMA and don't appear to be charging me anything... so while it's frustrating to have to wait to send it in for service, I'm not at all angry. They are standing behind their product and being very helpful and fast in helping me.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Sorry about the clumsy means of notification but we don't have the email for every customer. 

In modifying the code to accommodate the Shiva model a problem was introduced to the desat handler. The problem only occurred at high pack voltage and it was anything but consistent so it it was very difficult to track down. However, we finally fixed it yesterday and a new version of code - 1.5.1 - should be posted to the website in the next few hours.

It is highly recommended that anyone running 1.4.1 or later upgrade to 1.5.1. Version 1.4 and previous are not affected by this bug.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

1.5.1 is now available for download from: http://www.evnetics.com/downloads/Soliton_1_5_1.zip


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

NB: the ability to use the start button function to idle the motor seems to now be broken in 1.5.1; it is still possible to use the start button to unblock throttle and then begin idling the motor by applying throttle. This bug is not dangerous, just annoying. I'd say we were working tirelessly around the clock to fix it, but, well... I'd be lying. We'll probably try solving this particularly problem in a couple of weeks - right now both me and Qer are kind of sick of playing Whack-A-Mole with the controller code.


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## galeson (Oct 25, 2009)

I have a problem that there must be an easy answer to but I can't find it. I cannot get the logger program to create the logger.txt file. I can watch the logger change its values as I depress the throttle. What is most frustrating is that the logger used to create the file. Anybody else have the problem? Any suggestions?

Thanks


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

galeson said:


> I have a problem that there must be an easy answer to but I can't find it. I cannot get the logger program to create the logger.txt file. I can watch the logger change its values as I depress the throttle. What is most frustrating is that the logger used to create the file. Anybody else have the problem? Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks


Nope, that's a new one, and it reeks of a "permissions" problem with your o/s. Please provide more information and you might as well do it here, since I don't recall seeing a message to our tech support email about this.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

I am supposed to test a Kostov10" on my car. But instead of bucketful of analog gauges i could use logger info if that could be seen on laptop as gauges or something easily observed while driving.
Is there a program for that? I have noticed the android one, but would that work on laptop?
Harri


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

glaurung said:


> Is there a program for that? I have noticed the android one, but would that work on laptop?


I haven't seen anyone doing some kind of graphic application for PCs that views the Soliton stats, but you could always get an Android pad and run the Android program on that?

Just an idea though. I don't know if the Android app will work on a pad or not...


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

You want live data in a heads up manor. I am working on the Killer app for the Soliton1. You can't be driving around looking at the laptop. A retired android phone that has no data plan will work. attached screen shots show the app running on a Motorola Droid and a Archos 101 tablet both have no data just wifi. I have some more tweaking to do, but it is looking very sweet at this point. 

What are realistic values for Celsius temps of controller ?
green = 
yellow = 
red= 
I know it's around 50 C . I converted to F but it doesn't have to be F as long as the charting is correct.

http://ddmcse.com/amped
The app will only be for Evnetics controllers and android

left shot is pulling up a hill, temp set to C- needs to be /10, rpm sensor is not connected.

right shot is charger interruptus and a tether of the pedal to show amps, temp is set to Fahrenheit, no rpm 
TTs = minutes running best as I can figure.


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## Rob A (Feb 7, 2010)

Here is our attempt but it must run on a windows laptop.
It is still a work in progress


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

lowcrawler said:


> Just tightening the cable on... it snapped off with very little effort. I did the others much tighter than this one when it snapped... shoot, I did EVERYTHING in the car tighter. If I had to guess I was only at like 20ft-lbs of torque (whereas I probably went to 50-70 on the others)
> I suspect it was a faulty bolt or something. The Evnetics guys got back to me in less than 24 hours with an RMA and don't appear to be charging me anything... so while it's frustrating to have to wait to send it in for service, I'm not at all angry. They are standing behind their product and being very helpful and fast in helping me.


Just wanted to give an update and kudos to the evnetics team... My Jr. was sent in less than 2 weeks ago after getting an RMA same-day... and it's back in my arms (from MN to FL and back) now. Not a dime out of my own pocket and very very responsive service and support/info the entire time through.

I have to admit, I expected to _at least_ have to pay shipping, and probably a service charge of some sort -- Evnetics really went above and beyond here and they deserve kudos. If/when I build another EV I'll be using Evnetics products whenever possible. Thanks to them!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

got no problems using the laptop, but being kinda color-blind, DDMCSE's version is a bit awkward for me.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> ...attached screen shots show the app running on a Motorola Droid and a Archos 101 tablet both have no data just wifi....


Good looking app, Dan.



ddmcse said:


> What are realistic values for Celsius temps of controller ?
> green =
> yellow =
> red=


Green = 55C or less
Yellow = 56C to 65C
Red = >66C [red error light starts blinking]

Thermal derating starts at a lower temperature for the Soliton Jr but with a shallower slope, the above scale still applies, more or less.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

How are people wirelessly connecting to the controller?


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

put a wireless router in the glove box or elsewhere, run a cat 5 wire from controller to router. the wifi router is about 12v <5 amps after cutting off the wall wart


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Rob A said:


> Here is our attempt but it must run on a windows laptop.
> It is still a work in progress
> ...


Didn't mean to ignore you, Rob A, just got sidetracked last night.

A pure digital representation of the logging data is good for, well, data-logging purposes, but might be distracting if used as a "dashboard" in a moving vehicle. For a dashboard it's hard to beat analog gauges - the brain is just wired to interpret them much more quickly than digits.

But for a pure data-logger application it would be nice to be able to select 1-3 of the logging metrics with a continuous line (and maybe a selectable moving average filter) so as to better spot trends in the metric(s) while also displaying all of the metrics in unfiltered digital form below.

At least that's what I've sort of envisioned for a better logging application... it's not terribly creative, I know, but I tend to view such stuff as tools....


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## Rob A (Feb 7, 2010)

Maybe I can make it user selectable between digital and analog gauges. I will look into adding a trending window. We use the trend feature quite a bit at work in our PLC programming software.
I was going to mainly use this application as a tool to help me get the car tuned when I get it completed. The dash will have analog gauges in it.


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## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

piotrsko said:


> got no problems using the laptop, but being kinda color-blind, DDMCSE's version is a bit awkward for me.


Can you see blue/yellow contrast? That's what I typically see as an alternative for R/G colorblind individuals.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

the truth to the matter is that the reason behind android app development is that every time I connect the analog volt gauge (DC 180v) on my pillar pod (top spot)http://ddmcse.com/amped/blogs/blog4.php?blog=4&paged=4 I get a voltage leak that winds up being 100+ volts at the last battery. it took a hell of a long time to find the leak to begin with. I rewired the whole pod and just tested that meter un mounted to the car and boom I get leak. baffling my, positive wire is disconnected via a breaker. I connect to the + and - of the controller. I must have had this same issue with the logisystems too. no meter no leak. westach


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

comments: I'm yellow non sensitive, so I apparently see green and blue as the same. yellow warnings are invisible. The old RETMA colors were doable but I faked stuff a lot. If I can change the colors, I'm OK.

Westach was never known for quality, robust, accurate equipment.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

ddmcse , is there a place we can download your apps (or others for the soliton)?

I looked on your site, but all I see are a bunch of photos or videos... not explanatory text or anything...


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

mine is not ready yet.
if you have an android, "evspeedo" is on the market . it looks cool and has loads of options. 
you will need a wireless router 
mine is just going to deal with the basic facts. I need to create logging in the format that Evnetics prefers, which is important from a support standpoint. But I am digging it so far. Time for more testing it's 64 degrees here and time for the top to come off !


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> ddmcse , is there a place we can download your apps (or others for the soliton)?
> 
> I looked on your site, but all I see are a bunch of photos or videos... not explanatory text or anything...


you can download the app from the market/google play now under "ecar"


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

Block C parameters 
I'm trying to understand parameters in block C better.
I drove my car for 15 miles this weekend which was probably 2 more miles than I should of, But maybe there was a little more juice left.
While under load when I got to 138 volts I went into pulse mode.
It's extremely interesting to watch on my "ecar" android application when doing this. The mode information bar on the bottom of my application starts flashing between green and red.
Anyway my understanding is that the *minimum* battery voltage *under no current*, which I have set to 138v, means when I let my foot of the throttle as long as I am above 138v I will not get hit with a limit.
My minimum voltage under load/current is set to 115.
I started to get limited at 138v while under load.
Battery current set to 450
Motor current set to 490 
it must be a combination of these settings that got me to limiting @ 138v while under load.
It's interesting to see others have trouble with the rpm connections. I'm having difficulty myself I'm gonna take some of these new tips and try them. 
When I set mine up it is extremely squirrelly at zero rpm but when running it is fine.

This limiting was while using version 1.4, I have upgraded to 1.5.1 now.
I need to verify b & M current settings I thought they were set lower. 

I'm taking the Supra to the track in a few weeks so I'm thinking race mode settings and street mode settings would be nice. 
I'm gonna break something , hopefully a record.
http://www.ecedra.com/2012evdragracingevent.html


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ddmcse said:


> ...
> Anyway my understanding is that the *minimum* battery voltage *under no current*, which I have set to 138v, means when I let my foot of the throttle as long as I am above 138v I will not get hit with a limit.


This is a difficult concept to grasp and even more difficult one to explain. I gave it my best shot in the manual so I don't know if I will be able to clarify it more here. Rather than repeat what is in the manual, I'll try a different approach.

The two minimum pack voltage settings are intended to work together. If you set them to the same voltage then they will work exactly as the single minimum battery voltage setting functioned in versions prior to 1.4. That is to say, the controller will limit throttle to whatever value is necessary to maintain the pack voltage at the minimum specified. As the SoC of the pack declines the controller restricts battery current to a lower value.

However, a single minimum pack voltage setting can't differentiate between a decline in pack voltage from pulling 1000A and the pack simply being dead, so we came up with the idea of pairing the minimum allowed battery voltage with the maximum allowed battery current.

Now you can tell the controller that the pack voltage can sag down to, say, 100V at 500A (refer to the graph on p21 of the manual), but what is an acceptable voltage for the pack to sag down to at 400A? Or 100A? This is why you need to give the controller a second, higher, voltage which the pack must maintain at 0 current. The controller then interpolates the voltage vs. current between those two points. In the example graphed on p21 of the manual, the 0 current voltage is 150V (suggesting the fully charged voltage for this pack is around 192V) and the maximum current voltage is 100V. Thus, current will be limited to 250A if the pack declines to 125V, or 100A at 140V, etc.

When the pack is fully charged you might not even drop down to 100V when pulling 500A from it, so no additional limiting will be applied. This function really starts to shine as SoC declines, especially with LFP cells, as they will otherwise abruptly die (particularly if bottom balanced) when 0% SoC is reached - this function, properly employed, will let you know well ahead of time that you are running out of juice.

Note that for liability reasons I can't tell you precisely what to set your limits to. You have to decide how much current you want to pull from your pack, what you are willing to let it sag down to (NB - there is no advantage to going lower than half the nominal voltage, though), how much current from the pack or through the motor you want to tolerate, etc...

Hope that helps make this function a little clearer than mud.


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

I work with a couple of EE's, 1 of them I was just talking to understands what you are explaining. I just need some information about the battery's before I figure out the right number to set. You did clear some of it up for me and I do understand what is going on a bit more now, thanks. 
I know a lot of guys on here really love details but I absolutely hate details.
For now it's trial and error and luckily I'm driving the car everyday to work so I get to try things out four times a day. 
The outside temp is getting closer to doing a real test of the green/yellow/red scale on my android app. I've been up to 50 C recently but not 55 which would be the cut off of the (it's cool) green range and put the reading into yellow(not so cool).


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

piotrsko said:


> comments: I'm yellow non sensitive, so I apparently see green and blue as the same. yellow warnings are invisible. The old RETMA colors were doable but I faked stuff a lot. If I can change the colors, I'm OK.
> 
> Westach was never known for quality, robust, accurate equipment.


You said you were using a Windows laptop. There is a built in magnifier function that you can turn on color inversion with.

If you have Windows 7, hold Windows key(flag), press U. It will pull up the Ease of Access center, click Magnifier, then click on the Gear icon in the magnifier tool and click Color inversion.

If you have a different version of Windows you should be able to find this in Control Panel as either Ease of Access center or Accessibility options.

Hope this helps.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

I've been using my EV as my daily driver now for the last 3 days and doing a bit of fine tuning. I'm very happy with the Solition Jr.: it's got plenty of power, it's very easy to make adjustments, the throttle is smooth and responsive, and it looks great under the hood.

The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there. 

Anyone else experiencing this?

Is it maybe because the motor is solid mounted to the chassis?

Any suggestion to reduce this noise?


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## ddmcse (Oct 9, 2008)

change from performance mode to quiet mode in http setup made it seem to go away for me. 
actually I barely notice anymore but it has been a few thousand miles by now


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

it all depends on how good your hearing is. I imagine kids who have not had damage to their hearing can hear the controller quite easily, and those who have experienced some hearing loss cannot hear it at all. 8,000hz should be audible to most, and 14,000hz to those with good hearing.

Mounting of the motor and controller could have an effect on how the sound is "broadcast" from the components. Isolating the mechanical mounting points with rubber or plastic should help reduce the transmission of the sound to the frame and body.

directly from the manual...page 6 (highlighting by me)


> Illustration 1 is an example of a typical over-the-top conversion by the conversion shop Rebirth Auto. The Soliton1 is bolted to the twin motor adapter with *rubber vibration dampeners* and...


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

I can hear it. It's not bothersome.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

It was my understanding(might be in the manual too) that even in quiet mode that the controller will go into a lower frequency at a certain amperage and that it will leave 14khz if the temperature reaches a certain level to reduce controller heating to prevent performance loss by staying in quiet mode when you'd rather have performance.

If the first is true then normal relaxed driving would probably keep it quiet all the time and spirited driving might trigger the lower, more audible frequency.

palmer_md's ideas seem sound. With my conversion I'll use fabricated mounts that interface with the stock rubber mounts.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

palmer_md said:


> it all depends on how good your hearing is. I imagine kids who have not had damage to their hearing can hear the controller quite easily, and those who have experienced some hearing loss cannot hear it at all. 8,000hz should be audible to most, and 14,000hz to those with good hearing.
> 
> Mounting of the motor and controller could have an effect on how the sound is "broadcast" from the components. Isolating the mechanical mounting points with rubber or plastic should help reduce the transmission of the sound to the frame and body.
> 
> directly from the manual...page 6 (highlighting by me)


Isolating the controller is easy enough to do but it was my understanding that, while this type of noise is caused by the controller PWM operation, it's actually the motor that's the source of the noise. I could be wrong about that though.

It sounds like other folks can hear this sound but it's not particularly loud and easy to ignore which brings me back to thinking that it's the motor mounting that's transmitting the noise into the cab that's the problem.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Isolating the controller is easy enough to do but it was my understanding that, while this type of noise is caused by the controller PWM operation, it's actually the motor that's the source of the noise. I could be wrong about that though.
> 
> It sounds like other folks can hear this sound but it's not particularly loud and easy to ignore which brings me back to thinking that it's the motor mounting that's transmitting the noise into the cab that's the problem.


I think you are on the right track. Let us know what you come up with for mounting modifications in case others need the same information.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Yukon_Shane said:


> The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


Same thing for me. My Soliton 1 cause an intensive sound coming from the motor at 8 Khz, so I switch to quiet mode with some improving. 

Well, in my case, the motor is at 4 feets from my ears...
It's probably the main problem cause!


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Suggestion, . . . take up hunting, target shooting or work in a noisy factory for a while. I don't hear a damn thing...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Crank up the stereo!


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Yabert said:


> Same thing for me. My Soliton 1 cause an intensive sound coming from the motor at 8 Khz, so I switch to quiet mode with some improving.
> 
> Well, in my case, the motor is at 4 feets from my ears...
> It's probably the main problem cause!


This might actual be part of my problem too; my motor is really only a few feet away from me and the Geo Tracker isn't exactly well insulated for sound. Good to hear it's not just me.



DIYguy said:


> Suggestion, . . . take up hunting, target shooting or work in a noisy factory for a while. I don't hear a damn thing...


So this is one of the very few problems that actually goes away as you get older



JRP3 said:


> Crank up the stereo!


I know you're joking but I think that's also part of the problem, this car doesn't have a stereo in it yet so I'm listening (obsessing) about every little sound. A good stereo and some bad music solve alot of car problems


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Hi Tesseract,

I'm gonna use the Soliton 1 in combination with the Kostov 11" alpha and want to use the RPM sensor bearing. 
It produces 80 pulses per revolution. I know, that the Soliton can't work with that. So I will build a translation unit with a microcontroller.
What does the Soliton expect on it's RPM input?

Or are there any other ways to read the RPM?

Thanks
Marco


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> ...
> It produces 80 pulses per revolution. I know, that the Soliton can't work with that. So I will build a translation unit with a microcontroller.
> What does the Soliton expect on it's RPM input?
> 
> Or are there any other ways to read the RPM?...


Please refer to the Soliton manual for specifics about the RPM signal. The TACH input has a nominal input impedance of 10k and can accept pulses with a wide duty cycle range as long as logic "high" is at least 5V.

As for converting the 80ppt signal from the sensor bearing, yes, you can use a uC to divide it down, but I'd probably go use some CMOS logic instead. For example, use a CD4017B to divide the frequency by 10, then use each half of a CD4013B D flip-flop to divide it by 2 two more times. Now you've got a 2ppt signal with 50% duty - it can't get much better than that for the Soliton.

The reason I suggest using CD4xxx logic is because it runs on up to 18V and its switching thresholds are proportional to the supply voltage, so all you will need to do to power it is run a line from the S12V terminal of the controller to the Vdd pin of the logic chips, with a bypass capacitor to filter out noise and decouple spikes from switching. The output (Q or !Q) of the last flip-flop can directly drive the TACH input of the controller.


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

Hello,

this thread is very interesting. If I got it right, the battery voltage pack has to be the same value as the motor. If the battery voltage would be less, than the motor would get this lower voltage minus the losses over the controller. So in the controller is no DC DC converter to get the desired voltage of the motor, is this correct?

I want to use the Kostov Alpha 11 motor with the Solution 1 or Junior controller. In my opinion the Junior satisfies because of its continous output of 500A and at max. 650A (the batteries have to perform such a high current, this has to be checked).


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Elegancec said:


> Hello,
> 
> this thread is very interesting. If I got it right, the battery voltage pack has to be the same value as the motor. If the battery voltage would be less, than the motor would get this lower voltage minus the losses over the controller. So in the controller is no DC DC converter to get the desired voltage of the motor, is this correct?


Only half. The controller can drop the voltage to the motor(and emit more motor amps than it's drawing in battery amps at a higher voltage), but it can't raise the voltage.

Basically Motor Voltage <= Battery voltage.



Elegancec said:


> I want to use the Kostov Alpha 11 motor with the Solution 1 or Junior controller. In my opinion the Junior satisfies because of its continous output of 500A and at max. 650A (the batteries have to perform such a high current, this has to be checked).


The max is 600A for the Jr.

Using the soliton 1 gives you 40% more peak torque, and more continuous too.

Do mind the discharge rates, generally they will manifest as sag anyway.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

The Jr. is rated at 340v and 600A. Even if the batts sag to 300v that is still 180kw.

That's more than plenty and is equivalent to a 1000A controller at 180v which would have been a "hot" setup little more than a year ago.

Armchair builders are going a bit nuts acting as if a conversion needs 300kw or it is junk. 60kw is plenty for a small car to feel "sporty".

Just keep in mind that the Soliton Jr. will put 40% less stress on your brushes and comm (not to mention the batteries). I would wager hard cash that the number of motor/brush failures will be far less for those using the Jr. vs the 1. 

Less amps can actually be a GOOD thing. I personally limit the Zilla down to 600amps most of the time to avoid undue brush arcing.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

ruckus said:


> Just keep in mind that the Soliton Jr. will put 40% less stress on your brushes and comm (not to mention the batteries). I would wager hard cash that the number of motor/brush failures will be far less for those using the Jr. vs the 1.


Myep. I've lost count of how many motors the Soliton 1 has blown up (I had a reasonable correct count up to about 7) but I haven't heard of any blown up by a Jr. Remember that the losses in the motor is I²R so if current goes up from 600 to 1000 the losses in the motor increases with a factor of 2.8.

If you know what you're doing you'll probably be fine but just pairing up a cheap, random motor with a Soliton 1 with all settings on max is asking for expensive mileage cost. Of course, you COULD set the Soliton 1 on stu... a lower current too...


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

What, you're saying it is possible to turn the amps down? I thought the programing setup was just to turn things up! I mean, if it hasn't broken it must be able to handle a little more power.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Qer said:


> Myep. I've lost count of how many motors the Soliton 1 has blown up (I had a reasonable correct count up to about 7) but I haven't heard of any blown up by a Jr. Remember that the losses in the motor is I²R so if current goes up from 600 to 1000 the losses in the motor increases with a factor of 2.8.


Be careful talking about motor issues, Somanywelps is likely to claim you imagined those failures and demand you furnish links to each.. 

Even the "jr" controllers of today put out more continuous amps than the "race" controllers just a short time back.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> ...
> The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?
> ...


You've got good hearing if you can hear the motor "sing" with the controller in quiet mode. I can hear it, too, but just barely.

Rigid mounting of the motor is almost certainly contributing to this.

What motor are you using? Are you maxed out on the motor amps setting?


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

ruckus said:


> Be careful talking about motor issues, Somanywelps is likely to claim you imagined those failures and demand you furnish links to each..
> 
> Even the "jr" controllers of today put out more continuous amps than the "race" controllers just a short time back.


He's running the motors above 600A continuously. You're gonna have a bad time if you don't stay in the rated values.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> You've got good hearing if you can hear the motor "sing" with the controller in quiet mode. I can hear it, too, but just barely.
> 
> Rigid mounting of the motor is almost certainly contributing to this.
> 
> What motor are you using? Are you maxed out on the motor amps setting?


I'm using a warp 9. The motor amps are maxed at 600, battery at 500.

Ya I'm fairly certain it's the motor mounting that's amplifieing this sound. I'm plotting a rework of the mounting that will likely eliminate the sound in the cab. it's far from being a real problem, just one of the hundred or so improvements I'll be working on now that I'm on the road.


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## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

Yukon_Shane said:


> The one thing that I wasn't expecting though was a high pitched noise under throttle. It's not very loud but it's at a frequency that's kind of annoying. I've switched the controller from performance mode to quiet mode and the sound is definatley improved but it's still there.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


Another vote for high pitch sound, even in quiet mode.

Don't mind too much, sounds like the car is turbo-compressed


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

mk4gti said:


> Another vote for high pitch sound, even in quiet mode...


The controller abandons the higher frequency when it gets too hot, so if you aren't using liquid cooling you might as well not even bother with quiet mode.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> The controller abandons the higher frequency when it gets too hot, so if you aren't using liquid cooling you might as well not even bother with quiet mode.


Is that point 65 degrees C, by any chance?


Is there any harm to routinely taking the Soliton (Jr) up to 85C?


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> Is that point 65 degrees C, by any chance?


Yep.



lowcrawler said:


> Is there any harm to routinely taking the Soliton (Jr) up to 85C?


Yes, the higher the operating temperature the faster ALL electronics will die. The heuristic, or rule of thumb, that is commonly used is that every 10C increase in temperature over 25C cuts the lifespan in half, so going from 25C to 85C cuts the lifespan by 64x. Whether that's a tolerable reduction depends on what the lifespan is to begin with, but that's not something we can practically determine without adding significantly to the cost of the product. It's unlikely to exceed 1000 hours at 85C, based on the statistical summation of the MTBF of all components at that temperature, however.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> It's unlikely to exceed 1000 hours at 85C


Bummer. 

I bought the Jr. because it is advertised that it could be run on air for reasonable driving (couple of miles on the freeway, mostly 40mph driving)... I didn't realize that, for all practical purposes, it can't.

...well, not without crushing the lifespan. 


Now to redesign my car... Hrm....


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> Bummer.
> 
> I bought the Jr. because it is advertised that it could be run on air for reasonable driving (couple of miles on the freeway, mostly 40mph driving)... I didn't realize that, for all practical purposes, it can't.


Seriously? 1000 hours spread out over 30 minutes per day and 5 days per week is 7.7 years of operation. On most controllers you don't even get a choice of how to cool them, so your complaining about the fact that we give you a choice, but strongly recommend liquid cooling over air, seems a bit churlish. Heck, prior to us coming along not a single other controller manufacturer thought it was important to use a weather-resistant enclosure, and I can guarantee you that exposing the guts of these things to moisture, dust, bugs, etc, sure doesn't help their lifespan, either.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Seriously? 1000 hours spread out over 30 minutes per day and 5 days per week is 7.7 years of operation.


You know, I didn't do the math and simply 'mind-thought' "hey, 1000 hours doesn't sound like a lot".

Apologies, it was a gut emotional reaction.

That said, I'm still feeling a need to go with liquid now knowing I'm only looking at 64x the 'wear'. That said, if I can keep it around 75 I'd be happier... so I'm going to see if I can do it without a complete redesign. First thing I'm going to test is simply filling the channels...

And as for me 'complaining'... yes, I am to a certain extent. I'm not trying to be offensive, as I think _your products are still the best on the market_ and _I'd buy it again in a heartbeat_ (and if this one dies, I'll be buying another).
... But I don't think it's crazy that if one of the selling features is that it can be air cooled (which, like it or not, is a huge selling point for many of us trying to keep our builds simple)... it should _actually_ be able to be air cooled to a reasonable level that doesn't take 98% of it's life away. As is, my small car without a lead foot rides on the freeway at 60mph at 80C in normal temps (21C) and 85C in warmer temps (29C)... and spikes to 75c just getting up to speed from a stop sign on a 35mph road regardless of temp. (all temps at which I'm significantly derated)


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I water cooled my 1 from the beginning. In fact today I drove it more than 100 yards for the first time. After a bit I heard a noise like a vacuum pump that wouldn't stop so I pulled over to investigate. As I was about to get out it dawned on me it was the coolant pump. It comes on at either 30C or 40C I think. Didn't really pay attention to the temps.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

FWIW my junior never goes above 50C for more than a couple of seconds. even at 60MPH for a mile or so it happily sits at 45C on air cooling.

I planned on only installing liquid cooling if i needed it... and I dont.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> After a bit I heard a noise like a vacuum pump that wouldn't stop so I pulled over to investigate. As I was about to get out it dawned on me it was the coolant pump. It comes on at either 30C or 40C I think.


Oh, always nice to read about people using those features I've added. 

The pump output works as the built in fans; it turns on at 40C and off at 35C. That's the same for all models including the Shiva (which doesn't have fans though).


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Yea Qer, 40C is very comfortable for electronics. I also took Phantom Pholly's advice and installed a coolant reservoir which holds about a liter.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> You know, I didn't do the math and simply 'mind-thought' "hey, 1000 hours doesn't sound like a lot".
> 
> Apologies, it was a gut emotional reaction.


Thanks for the "mea culpa"; I'm still going to bring the proverbial hammer down on you, though. 



lowcrawler said:


> ... But I don't think it's crazy that if one of the selling features is that it can be air cooled (which, like it or not, is a huge selling point for many of us trying to keep our builds simple)...


You've said this a couple times before, implying that we *advertise* our controllers as being air-coolable (if that's even a word - spell-check doesn't think so). The fact is that we don't once mention that the controllers can be run on air-cooling alone in any of the "official" product literature or website copy. In fact, on (p10) of the manual it says:_"Despite having a beefy finned heatsink and fans, we highly recommend using liquid cooling if only because every 10C drop in temperature doubles the life of electronic components."_​Don't get me wrong - it is entirely reasonable to conclude that the presence of fans and fins on our controllers means they can be run on air-cooling alone - _because, in fact, they can_ - but where your conclusion diverges from reality is in your expectation that air-cooling is even remotely as effective as liquid cooling. The reality is that liquid cooling is at least 10x more effective at removing heat from a given area than fins and fans (ie - forced convection), which is another way of saying that there must be a penalty for relying on air-cooling alone; in this case, the penalties are reduced power output and component lifespan. There's no way around this - the hotter you run an electronic device the shorter its lifespan, and no amount of bitching from you, me or the rest of the universe is going to change that.

Now, as a result of our experience, as well as from feedback from our customers, we have become more open to the idea that in some installations - particularly light vehicles, and/or ones that spend little or no time on the highway - our controllers can be used with air-cooling alone, but we still don't mention that in the manual or the web page, nor do I encourage such here (go ahead and search my posts - over and over again you'll see me say that my "official position" is that one should use liquid cooling in any installation).

Finally, please do not interpret an off-the-cuff estimate from me (e.g. - the lifespan of our controllers at 85C) as a statement of scientific fact. It is not economically feasible for us to test a statistically significant number of controllers to destruction just to find their MTBF because the market (ie - people like you) are not willing to pay a premium in price for such information. It's hard enough to make a living in this business as it is, with competitors like the $650 "open source" controller and even the 30+ year old Curtis 1231C bouncing around...


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Makes sense. That hammer didn't hurt too bad. 

A few 'rebuttles' just for the sake of argument, however:

Whether you officially 'advertise' it as air-cooled or not, you know that is one of the features people buy your products for. (vs the NetGain controller, for instance) A simply statement such as "we highly recommend liquid cooling..._because air-only only works in very specific situations and even then will cut orders of magnitude off the lifespan of the conroller_" would be more forthcoming than simply saying "we highly recommend liquid cooling".
The reason I say that is lots of manufacturers "highly recommend" stuff that isn't really needed. Anti-static straps for computer motherboards, never removing the "don't put this in water" tag from your hair dryer, using only OEM parts, putting the anti-fall straps on bookshelves, etc, etc... So it's come to the point that without a "because..." a lot of those recommendations get taken with a grain of salt.

(this is not to say you've been duplicitous at all -- you guys are the most open manufacturers of any product I've ever seen... I'm simply explaining where I'm coming from)

FWIW - I never meant to imply that air cooling should or would be as effective as liquid. Anyone with half a brain would know that - but CPU's can run on air just fine and it doesn't hurt their lifespan, even though liquid is technically better. (I know the scale of the heat removal is different, but hopefully you get the point I was coming from)

Anyway, thanks for the explanations and the top notch products...


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> ...
> The reason I say that is lots of manufacturers "highly recommend" stuff that isn't really needed. Anti-static straps for computer motherboards...


Okay, that's a valid point and one I hadn't really considered. I'll add a bit more explanation about air vs. liquid cooling in the next revision of the manual, then.



lowcrawler said:


> FWIW - I never meant to imply that air cooling should or would be as effective as liquid. Anyone with half a brain would know that...


I wasn't so much saying that you didn't know that liquid cooling is more effective than air-cooling, more that you didn't seem to have a good idea of how much product life is reduced by higher temperature. More specifically, you seemed to think that letting your controller run at 85C most of the time only robbed you of some of its maximum current rating, and not of its ultimate lifespan, too.



lowcrawler said:


> ...but CPU's can run on air just fine and it doesn't hurt their lifespan...


Sure CPUs can be air-cooled just fine, but that doesn't mean their lifespan hasn't been reduced, it's just that the lifespan of the CPU at 25C is so long to start with (probably exceeding 1M hours) that even at 65C (which is my guess for the typical average core temperature) it will last far longer than you will need it to.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

*Issue with Cycle Analyst and Soliton noise*

I had a Curtis 1231C controller and a Cycle Analyst for counting Ah, pack cycles, wh/mile etc. I have about 3000 miles on the Curtis. Since upgrading to the Soliton1 however, I noticed the CA would index backwards once every 30 seconds or so. Normally to index to the next screen you have to push a button but regardless, it never indexes in reverse! 

Assuming it was caused by noise, I built a 12.5uh choke and installed it in line with the positive lead to the CA. This helped quite a bit limiting the indexing to once every few minutes or so. The CA however has three leads so there's three ways for noise to enter so I figured I had to install another one to completely stop it. I installed it on the - side of the pack and that solved the problem.

I did notice though that the minute resistance of the coil interfered with the amp reading of the CA so I did a ZERO on it with no current flowing through the shunt. This procedure is in the manual but you have to go into SETUP and then to the Advanced menu to do it.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Issue with Cycle Analyst and Soliton noise*



ElectriCar said:


> ...I noticed the CA would index backwards once every 30 seconds or so.
> ...
> Assuming it was caused by noise, I built a 12.5uh choke and installed it in line with the positive lead to the CA....


Making an inductor by coiling up wire is a great way to create an "EMI cannon", often doing more harm than good. A much more effective means of reducing electrical noise is to run the positive and negative battery cables next to each other all the way from the traction pack to the controller. Putting a snap-on ferrite over all three of the signal wires to the Cycle Analyst will help tremendously, too.

However clever a gadget the Cycle Analyst may be, it is important to keep in mind that it is not really designed for use in on-road EVs. Much the same can be said for the TBS Xpert Pro Ah gauge; they are notoriously twitchy once the pack voltage exceeds 140V or so, and downright unusable at 200V+.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Issue with Cycle Analyst and Soliton noise*



ElectriCar said:


> I had a Curtis 1231C controller and a Cycle Analyst for counting Ah, pack cycles, wh/mile etc. I have about 3000 miles on the Curtis. Since upgrading to the Soliton1 however, I noticed the CA would index backwards once every 30 seconds or so. Normally to index to the next screen you have to push a button but regardless, it never indexes in reverse!
> 
> Assuming it was caused by noise, I built a 12.5uh choke and installed it in line with the positive lead to the CA. This helped quite a bit limiting the indexing to once every few minutes or so. The CA however has three leads so there's three ways for noise to enter so I figured I had to install another one to completely stop it. I installed it on the - side of the pack and that solved the problem.
> 
> I did notice though that the minute resistance of the coil interfered with the amp reading of the CA so I did a ZERO on it with no current flowing through the shunt. This procedure is in the manual but you have to go into SETUP and then to the Advanced menu to do it.


I had/have the same issue with the Soliton1 and the CA. I first tried a couple of ferrite cores but it didn't really help. So, I replaced the fairly long positive lead with a bit of high grade shielded wire I had. The problem reduced by 95%. It went from continuously back stepping, particularly on acceleration, to only very occasionally. Now, that I have replaced the Soliton with the Shiva, I have the issue back again. I need to do both leads with shielded wire and see what happens. I think Jeff is correct about the CA design application. This device originated from lower voltage bicycle applications.. . obviously.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Yes I left the "signal" wire from the shunt but did both power wires.

Tes the cables are run, actually twisted from the pack to within 3' of the pack to an Andersen disconnect. I thought about lengthening the cable from the disconnect to my contactors so I could twist them as well, now about 4' long. The motor conductors however aren't ran together at all.

DIY I have a two conductor shielded cable from the shunt to the CA but I don't think I grounded the shield. Maybe I should do that but the two choke deal works perfectly now. If you have some 24 gauge wire, roll it around a 1.25" PVC conduit, about 18 turns in an inch and it calculates to 12.5uh choke. I held the ends in place with a tie wrap. Works beautifully. Here's the link I used to calculate the uh.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I bit of air vs water cooling data.
I recently installed water cooling, I run the pump 100% of the time, but I will be setting up the fans to only come on when the Soliton1 fans come on. (not hooked up yet).

I did a test run accelerating up a gentle hill all the way through 5th gear at full throttle with normal driving before that to bring the controller up to "normal temperature".

On air I peaked at 62C, with normal driving temps around 43C, (Ambient around 19-20C)

On coolant I peaked at 44C, with normal driving around 26-28C and dropped to 24C after coasting down a short hill (Ambient 22C) this is pump only fans on the radiator are not hooked up yet. 

This was driving the same road with the same acceleration and similar ambient temperature. Controller temperature drops MUCH faster on water, but I guess that's the point. A minute and 40 seconds after the 44C peak the temp was back down to 31C.

I'll play with fluid flow and putting some air on the radiator to see how things change. Right now I'd call it a success!


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Does your controller get good airflow simply from driving? Everyone's "on air" temps seem much much lower than mine... I'm wondering if it's because of the mounting location. I'll hit 65C simply accelerating to the speed limit one time on side streets.


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## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

My jr was heating up quickly as well running on "air only". I installed a water reservoir + pump and it's a night and day difference. 

Not sure if a rad is really required, still have to "experiment" on a hot day.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

lowcrawler said:


> Does your controller get good airflow simply from driving? Everyone's "on air" temps seem much much lower than mine... I'm wondering if it's because of the mounting location. I'll hit 65C simply accelerating to the speed limit one time on side streets.


Mine isn't ideal, my controller is above the motor and I don't have the heat shield in place yet so motor heat can rise up into the controller. I can't say how much airflow there would be in the engine compartment.

On longer drives I've noticed the thermal limit and "felt" the lack of torque from the controller limiting current. It wasn't a very long or aggressive drive either in very mild ambient temperatures.



mk4gti said:


> My jr was heating up quickly as well running on "air only". I installed a water reservoir + pump and it's a night and day difference.
> 
> Not sure if a rad is really required, still have to "experiment" on a hot day.


I think that just might be the key here, I don't have fans on my radiator yet but simply switching to water made a drastic difference. I might come down to a very simple and inexpensive system with a pump/reservoir could be enough to keep these cool.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

OK, I know someone will show me, . . . but I have honestly looked and searched to no avail for the sealed Ethernet connector(s) (RJ45 is it?). I'm sure I've seen at least one version of this somewhere. My Shiva has a black cap that secures with an external thread. . .about a half turn I think. Can someone point me to info on this? I want to install a permanent, sealed connection. (yes, I have found various pics that look like the right thing. Just looking for the recommended spec/supplier etc. I didn't see anything on the Evnetics or Rebirth site either.

Thx


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## Rob A (Feb 7, 2010)

I think I used this one
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1738607-2/A31779-ND/804658

I will get on Digikey's site and look up my order to verify if this is the correct one.

Don't use this one, it's the wrong brand. I got it confused with the one we use at work.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> OK, I know someone will show me, . . . but I have honestly looked and searched to no avail for the sealed Ethernet connector(s) (RJ45 is it?). I'm sure I've seen at least one version of this somewhere. My Shiva has a black cap that secures with an external thread. . .about a half turn I think. Can someone point me to info on this? I want to install a permanent, sealed connection. (yes, I have found various pics that look like the right thing. Just looking for the recommended spec/supplier etc. I didn't see anything on the Evnetics or Rebirth site either.
> 
> Thx


Ethernet port specs are on p30 of the manual... ahem.

The sealed-in-use cover for the port used in all of the Shivas thus far is Conec part number 17-10001. We do not carry these items - we really aren't set up for small item sales at all - but you can buy it from DigiKey:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/connectors-interconnects/modular-plugs/1442741?k=17-10001

Note that you have to remove one of the RJ-45 plugs from the ethernet cable to install the cover.


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## Rob A (Feb 7, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Ethernet port specs are on p30 of the manual... ahem.
> 
> The sealed-in-use cover for the port used in all of the Shivas thus far is Conec part number 17-10001. We do not carry these items - we really aren't set up for small item sales at all - but you can buy it from DigiKey:
> 
> ...


Oh yea, now I remember, I looked it up in the manual


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Ethernet port specs are on p30 of the manual... ahem.
> 
> The sealed-in-use cover for the port used in all of the Shivas thus far is Conec part number 17-10001. We do not carry these items - we really aren't set up for small item sales at all - but you can buy it from DigiKey:
> 
> ...


Ah. . thanks. I actually did look in the manual first. Obvious now that the problem being, it's an old version. . That one didn't even have 30 pages.. lol


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Rob A said:


> I think I used this one
> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1738607-2/A31779-ND/804658
> 
> I will get on Digikey's site and look up my order to verify if this is the correct one.


Thanks Rob. . . for looking into that for me.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

hi to all
i was looking at the manual and realised i had no idea of what volts amp etc to put in the solition 1 i have a warp 11 motor and i am going to have 47 winston 90 ah and add more later but i will stay around 150 v nominal (3.2v)
oh and the truck is 4280lbs (2140kgs)

links or a way to find out would be nice 
thanks
owen


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> ...i was looking at the manual and realised i had no idea of what volts amp etc to put in the solition 1...


The settings in question are addressed on pp20-22 of the Soliton owner's manual.I point this out because it is entirely up to you to decide how hard you want to push your batteries and motor. 

That said, the Winston battery website says the 90Ah cell can deliver 270A (3C) continuously, and can tolerate brief draws of up to 20C. You'll probably want to set maximum battery current to something between those two limits because at 270A of battery current you'll have all of about 40kW to power your 2140kg truck...

As for motor current, with the battery current limit set to a conservative 270A it will be difficult to put 1000A through the WarP-11 motor for long enough to hurt it. The motor won't even make it to 1000rpm before current (and therefore torque) starts dropping off.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Today my Soliton 1 showed an error, I don't know the reason for:

Has the voltage simply been to low?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Today my Soliton 1 showed an error, I don't know the reason for:
> 
> Has the voltage simply been to low?


Pack fuse blown? Battery cable loose or disconnected? Broken controller? Excessive brush dust in the motor?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

marc02228 said:


> Today my Soliton 1 showed an error, I don't know the reason for:
> 
> Has the voltage simply been to low?


Check for a voltage across the input terminals on the controller using a multimeter.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Pack fuse blown? Battery cable loose or disconnected? Broken controller? Excessive brush dust in the motor?


The car is still in the building process. There is no fuse in the circuit yet. Just connected all the components to test if the drivetrain works well.

I turned of the ignition key, turned it back on and all worked fine again.
I am jsut curious, what the error means.

@ skooler
12V or high voltage terminals?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

marc02228 said:


> The car is still in the building process. There is no fuse in the circuit yet. Just connected all the components to test if the drivetrain works well.
> 
> I turned of the ignition key, turned it back on and all worked fine again.
> I am jsut curious, what the error means.
> ...


High Voltage Terminals.

The fact the controller has powered up and that no error relating to 12v supply has been displayed means that the 12v side of things is fine.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

skooler said:


> Check for a voltage across the input terminals on the controller using a multimeter.


Once upon a time I blew a pack fuse and failed to trouble shoot it in the first 5 min due to the fact that I had close to pack voltage across my controller input terminals. Just sayin,..... don't use this as a test for a fuse. (yes I did also, and got a jab from Tesseract for not diagnosing the blown fuse immediately) Soon as I got the truck home, I actually double checked and sure enough. . . an A50QS400 can take 1200 battery amps. . . but only 5 times in a 10 min span. # 6 will make it melt.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

I've got an idea for the next EVnetics product. Battery pack fuses that light up when blown, like some of the ATC fuses available


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

rochesterricer said:


> I've got an idea for the next EVnetics product. Battery pack fuses that light up when blown, like some of the ATC fuses available


You should check the Mersen fuse(used to be Ferraz Shawmut) website.
The A50QS fuses seem to have an option that includes an indicator or sight glass of some kind. Not sure how it works but they seem to sell them.
You can see a picture of the little black rectangular thing on it.
http://ep-us.mersen.com/catalog/semiconductor-fuses/north-american-round-style/500v-a50qs/


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## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

I don't know if it was discussed before, but it would be "nice to have" a 60-2 rpm output signal generator to support many OEM tachs/ECUs out there.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

mk4gti said:


> I don't know if it was discussed before, but it would be "nice to have" a 60-2 rpm output signal generator to support many OEM tachs/ECUs out there.


I agree, but this is not possible with the current hardware, unfortunately.


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## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> I agree, but this is not possible with the current hardware, unfortunately.


Pretty please ? 
I understand, no worries. Another arduino project on my to do list.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

mk4gti said:


> Pretty please ?
> I understand, no worries. Another arduino project on my to do list.


It's been a long time since I looked at this part of the hardware (like years) but as I recall the maximum frequency that can be reliably processed is just a few hundred Hz. With a 60-2 pulse per turn input the controller will max out at, oh, 40-50 RPM, maybe...


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

mk4gti said:


> I don't know if it was discussed before, but it would be "nice to have" a 60-2 rpm output signal generator to support many OEM tachs/ECUs out there.


 
I just did it 'old school' and machined a 60-2 tooth pattern on the back side of the flywheel. Then I was able to move the OEM crank position sensor to the edge of the flywheel which enabled the tach.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Tesseract,

If I run the Soliton Jr with an Agni (PM brushed DC) will I need a small inductor for the IGBT's to function properly? I read the manual and this seems consistent. Just wanted to Verify.

_Motor Selection
Both the Soliton1 and Soliton Jr controllers were designed to drive series field DC
motors of 8” to 13” diameter. Series field motors have a significant amount of
inductance (the popular NetGain WarP-9 is around 100uH even at 500A) which the
controller relies upon to smooth out the pulses of voltage it delivers into a near-DC
current through the motor. The approximate minimum amount of inductance needed
by our controllers for normal operation is 10uH. Please contact us –
[email protected] – if you want to use our controllers for any purpose besides
driving a series field motor._

Thanks!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

winzeracer said:


> ...
> If I run the Soliton Jr with an Agni (PM brushed DC) will I need a small inductor for the IGBT's to function properly?...


Unlikely, unless you plan on pushing 600A through the largest Agni motor made (which has the lowest inductance) and your battery pack is over, say, 100-150V. This minimum inductance recommendation applies to *all* PWM motor controllers, btw.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Tesseract said:


> Unlikely, unless you plan on pushing 600A through the largest Agni motor made (which has the lowest inductance) and your battery pack is over, say, 100-150V. This minimum inductance recommendation applies to *all* PWM motor controllers, btw.


I will be at 100v 400amp max, with the 111r motor, but my high pack voltage will be 126v so it seems I am close to needing an external inductor but should be fine without it right?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

winzeracer said:


> I will be at 100v 400amp max, with the 111r motor, but my high pack voltage will be 126v so it seems I am close to needing an external inductor but should be fine without it right?


Adding an external inductor in series with the motor is not really practical, but there shouldn't be any problems for the controller or the motor (yes, this warning about minimum inductance is as much for the motor's sake as the controller's) as long as you follow a few simple rules:

1. Don't set motor current higher than the "short term" rating specified by the manufacturer. Ie - what the motor can safely withstand for 10-30 seconds.
2. Set the Soliton to "Quiet" mode - the higher switching frequency reduces the current ripple through the motor.
3. Ensure battery pack voltage is below 150V.

For a more technical explanation, the lower the motor inductance the more the current will swing from trough to peak each PWM period. If the peak of the current waveform is too high it could trigger an overcurrent fault in the controller, or, worse, result in progressive demagnetization of the "permanent" magnets (after all, this is how magnets are made in the first place, by passing an intense magnetic field through the magnet-to-be).

Both running at a lower battery voltage and a higher switching frequency reduces the rate that the current can change in the motor's inductance during each switching cycle.


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

I've run an Agni 111rdr on the dyno with a Soliton1 and it seemed to have no problem running it up to 500A @ 110v. I've also run 2 in parallel to 800A from the 1 controller, so I guess you'll be fine..

Steve


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Thanks guys, that is what I wanted to hear, straight from the the 2 most knowledgeable people on the subject no less!


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Somewhere I read about, that it should be better to mount the Soliton on some rubber buffer mounts. I don't find the thread anymore. 
Does it make sense?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Somewhere I read about, that it should be better to mount the Soliton on some rubber buffer mounts. I don't find the thread anymore.
> Does it make sense?


Of course it makes sense that isolating the controller (or anything else) from vibration is better than not isolating it, but the Soliton controllers were designed for on-vehicle use so this is not necessary, per se.


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

My plan is to see the motor and the controller as a package which is completely mounted on the original rubber mountings.
I dont think that the very small vibrations of the motor or nearly no vibration would harm the motor.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

I just started connecting the power cables in my car. 
There seems to be a connection between the Soliton batterie + terminal to the cars chassis. Is that correct? While wiring the car, I got a little shock. so I measured the voltage between the batteriepack and the chassis. It was around 100V :O. I tracked the error and disconnected all devices. 
Now the result, as said, seems to be a connection from the Solitons + batterie terminal to ground.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> There seems to be a connection between the Soliton batterie + terminal to the cars chassis. Is that correct? While wiring the car, I got a little shock. so I measured the voltage between the batteriepack and the chassis. It was around 100V :O. I tracked the error and disconnected all devices.
> Now the result, as said, seems to be a connection from the Solitons + batterie terminal to ground.


*sigh*

From the FAQ entry on our website discussing this very issue:



> There is almost always some leakage current to the vehicle frame (aka a "frame leak") from brush dust in the motor. First thing to do is disconnect both motor cables from the controller and see if the leakage current goes away even when the controller is on. If so, then turn off the controller and reconnect the motor cables then place a 10k resistor across your meter's probes and see if the voltage drops below 10V. If so, then you have 1mA of leakage current which is enough to give you a tingle, but not considered harmful (in the US - other countries may have different rules concerning the acceptable level of leakage current!). In any event, you should routinely blow out accumulated dust from the brush area with compressed air.
> 
> Another common cause of frame leaks is condensation and/or electrolyte on the batteries, particularly lead-acid and Ni-Cd types. You can usually spot the exact battery/cell leaking current by holding one meter probe against the vehicle frame while testing the voltage difference from one battery/cell terminal to the next. When you read ~0V at the meter you've found the exact terminal which is leaking current. Wiping down the tops of the batteries/cells with a clean rag dampened with distilled water is the best way to remove electrolyte.
> 
> Checking the traction circuit wiring for breaks in the insulation shouldn't need any explanation. Make sure no cables rub against metal and you shouldn't ever have a problem with this.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> *sigh*
> 
> From the FAQ entry on our website discussing this very issue:


Just found it. Thanks. Will check the motor / motor cables. But the motor isactually brand new, it only ran 10 km in the car... at most.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Disconnecting both motor cables didn`t change the value/error.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Disconnecting both motor cables didn`t change the value/error.


So your conclusion is that the fault must be in the controller, huh?

How about next disconnecting the traction battery cables from the controller - but leave all of the 12V wiring connected - and then measure the resistance from any of the high voltage terminals on the controller to its PGND terminal and its case.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

FWIW I had he same thing with mine. turned out it was the 'isolated' chennic DCDC converter.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

@skooler
Thanks. I already disconnected the DC/DC converter. Didn't change anything.

@Tesseract
No, I didn't say that. But it seems to be the controller since everything else is disconnected. And when I disconnect the batterie cables from the Soliton, there is no voltage left between chassis and the batterie modules.

I think you wrote somewhere that the controller pulls the chassis ground to the middle of the batterie voltage? That would explain everything. Why does it do this?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> ..
> @Tesseract
> No, I didn't say that. But it seems to be the controller since everything else is disconnected. And when I disconnect the batterie cables from the Soliton, there is no voltage left between chassis and the batterie modules.
> 
> I think you wrote somewhere that the controller pulls the chassis ground to the middle of the batterie voltage? That would explain everything. Why does it do this?


First off, did you measure the resistance between each of the controller's high power terminals and its chassis? Voltage readings between supposedly isolated points taken with a DMM are not reliable indicators of leakage.

Next, did you get your controller from Rebbl? If so, it was modified by them to pass EMC testing, possibly including the addition of "X" and "Y" capacitors to the battery and/or motor terminals. I say "possibly" because I don't know what those modifications are, precisely. Rebbl paid a lot to get our controllers through EMC compliance testing in the EU and, understandably, does not wish to give away what they had to do to achieve compliance, though that does make my life somewhat difficult, especially at times like this.

EDIT - forgot to answer that, no, I never said the controller pulls its chassis ground to the middle of the traction battery voltage. There is total isolation - either via optocouplers, transformers or physical distance - between the traction and 12V sides of the controller. If Rebbl adds "Y" capacitors (from "line" to chassis) then all bets are off.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> First off, did you measure the resistance between each of the controller's high power terminals and its chassis? Voltage readings between supposedly isolated points taken with a DMM are not reliable indicators of leakage.
> 
> Next, did you get your controller from Rebbl? If so, it was modified by them to pass EMC testing, possibly including the addition of "X" and "Y" capacitors to the battery and/or motor terminals. I say "possibly" because I don't know what those modifications are, precisely. Rebbl paid a lot to get our controllers through EMC compliance testing in the EU and, understandably, does not wish to give away what they had to do to achieve compliance, though that does make my life somewhat difficult, especially at times like this.
> 
> EDIT - forgot to answer that, no, I never said the controller pulls its chassis ground to the middle of the traction battery voltage. There is total isolation - either via optocouplers, transformers or physical distance - between the traction and 12V sides of the controller. If Rebbl adds "Y" capacitors (from "line" to chassis) then all bets are off.


Ok.. I was actually sure, that I read that somewhere. And it seemed to fit perfectly. I use 96 cells in the car and I measure the lowest voltage between cell 48 and the chassis (don't remember if it was anode or cathode, but that's marginal).

Using my multimeter, I measured a resistance of a bit under 1 MΩ between the HV batterie terminals and the Soliton casing.

Of course, I totally understand, that Rebbl doesn't say, what they modified, I wouldn't tell it either.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> ...Using my multimeter, I measured a resistance of a bit under 1 MΩ between the HV batterie terminals and the Soliton casing....


Ok, so it sounds like Rebbl put in bleeder resistors and Y caps on the battery terminals. This amount of resistance is *perfectly acceptable*. The applicable safety standard for electric vehicles in the EU is ECE-R100, and it requires an "isolation" resistance of 100Ω/V between high and low voltage DC circuits in an EV. For a 96 cell LFP pack that comes out to ~34k.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Ok, so it sounds like Rebbl put in bleeder resistors and Y caps on the battery terminals. This amount of resistance is *perfectly acceptable*. The applicable safety standard for electric vehicles in the EU is ECE-R100, and it requires an "isolation" resistance of 100Ω/V between high and low voltage DC circuits in an EV. For a 96 cell LFP pack that comes out to ~34k.


Thank you four your answer. I am feeling a bit better, now.
I know about the 100Ω per Volt isolation resistance, but was a bit worried, when it started tingling and I saw little sparks (not a big arc, of course).

The Soliton is a really great controller 
The web interface runs perfectly, but when I start the logger.exe, it seems to get no connection. The "cursor" is just blinking in the upper left corner.
I deactivated the firewall, of course. 
I didn't find anything about logger issues in the internet, but I talked to someone else here in Germany, who's logger behaves the same.

When I open logger.txt while the exe is running, it's empty. When I open it after closing the exe, it contains one line with "Time, CPU, Thrtl, etc. but no values.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> ...
> The web interface runs perfectly, but when I start the logger.exe, it seems to get no connection. The "cursor" is just blinking in the upper left corner.
> I deactivated the firewall, of course.
> I didn't find anything about logger issues in the internet, but I talked to someone else here in Germany, who's logger behaves the same.
> ...


This is most likely because Windows is blocking internet access to logger despite you thinking you have disabled it. Please copy logger.exe to another folder so that when you run it you will once again be prompted if you wish to let this program talk to public and private networks. Check *both* boxes this time, as illustrated in the pic below.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks. I got it to work.
There was no chance to get it running in the virtual machine.
I installed windows separately and all is fine


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Thanks. I got it to work.
> *There was no chance to get it running in the virtual machine.*
> I installed windows separately and all is fine


That was an important detail you failed to mention. It's omissions like this that make my job so difficult sometimes...


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sorry to go off topic...
What program are you using to create the virtual machine.

I have found with both windows and mac that the host machine will often filter connections on a virtual network adapter - its not always a straight connection to the RJ45 jack on the side of the machine.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm using Virtual Box on a Macbook.




skooler said:


> Sorry to go off topic...
> What program are you using to create the virtual machine.
> 
> I have found with both windows and mac that the host machine will often filter connections on a virtual network adapter - its not always a straight connection to the RJ45 jack on the side of the machine.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

More important than the program used is the networking. Are you bridged or NATed and are firewalls enabled on either host or VM?


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> More important than the program used is the networking. Are you bridged or NATed and are firewalls enabled on either host or VM?


NAT. Firewalls were disabled.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> NAT.


There's your answer then.

The logger uses UDP broadcasts because it's dirt simple to implement (a good thing in small microcontrollers with limited resources), but it also has the "feature" that the packages gets filtered by pretty much anything. NAT definitely throws out the packages and refuses to let them through.

You want to change the setting to bridged adapter if you're gonna run the logger in a VM. I haven't done it myself so I don't know if there's alternative things you have to set up too, like allowing promiscuous mode. I don't think you'll have to, but I might be wrong.

This means, however, that your VM isn't isolated anymore but is connected to the network like a physical machine would be, meaning it will need/want it's own IP-address etc. And, of course, that it can be attacked if it's a public network. On the other hand, logger should work.

Otherwise it shouldn't be too hard work compiling the logger.c in case you know how to kick a compiler. I have on my wish list to buy a Mac so I could compile logger for Macs as well, but, well, don't hold your breath. I've wanted to buy a Mac since, errr... Well. I THINK Obama was president even back when I started to get those ideas...


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

What would cause the precharge time on the Soliton 1 to change from 4 seconds to 10 seconds? Been driving the car for 5 months now and this morning the precharge took about 10 seconds instead of the usual 4. I was just starting to think something was broken and I heard the contactor close. Pulled out of the driveway and drove up the hill so I could coast back if necessary but no problem. Tried turning it on several more times and always about 10 seconds. Went for a longer drive and the car seems fine. Figured I would ask the experts here.


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

dougingraham said:


> What would cause the precharge time on the Soliton 1 to change from 4 seconds to 10 seconds? Been driving the car for 5 months now and this morning the precharge took about 10 seconds instead of the usual 4. I was just starting to think something was broken and I heard the contactor close. Pulled out of the driveway and drove up the hill so I could coast back if necessary but no problem. Tried turning it on several more times and always about 10 seconds. Went for a longer drive and the car seems fine. Figured I would ask the experts here.


 I've had the same problem for the last few months and have been meaning to ask this question too..?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I've had the opposite since upgrading to the latest firmware. Went from ~10 seconds to 3 or 4.

Noticed this line on the release notes for 1.5.2:



> Extra 6 second delay before precharge commences if a low voltage error for either the traction pack or 12V supply is recorded - clear stored errors to remove delay (protects the precharge resistors from overheating)


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

We have a winner! Cleared the error and back to 4 seconds. I guess I should have read the release notes.

Made a few changes while I was in there. Guess I should go for a drive and see if I like it.

Thanks!


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

skooler said:


> I've had the opposite since upgrading to the latest firmware. Went from ~10 seconds to 3 or 4.
> 
> Noticed this line on the release notes for 1.5.2:


 Nice one Mike, thanks..


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Does anyone use the error output?

I attached engine error light between the error output and ground. It's on, when there is no error and off, if there is an error. Can/did I invert that somehow?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Does anyone use the error output?
> 
> I attached engine error light between the error output and ground. It's on, when there is no error and off, if there is an error. Can/did I invert that somehow?


I suspect that you've managed to wire the lamp between Error out and +12V. Double check with the red LED on the controller, if that goes the right way it's the external lamp being wired to +12V instead of GND.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Guys
I am using a borrowed Soliton in my machine - still waiting for my cert plate
But tonight under the cover of darkness I took it for a spin

I have direct drive and a reversing contactor,
I had set the throttle up and sitting in "drive" with no throttle the car just sits there,

I have been pressing the brakes when changing into reverse - and from reverse into forwards

With the Soliton I was getting a massive thud from the drive-line when I powered up the forward (or reverse) contactors 

This is with the brakes applied for a couple of seconds, when I took the brakes off and re-applied them just before I switched on the relevant contactor - no thud!

Is this part of the "burn out" system for drag racing?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I have noticed with mine that there seems to be a power up delay involved with into or out of reverse for about 1 second. I had thought that it was operator error.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Could you provide me with logs when you change between reverse and forward with and without brakes? If you can download and attach the settings file too it'd be swell.

Send it all to [email protected] and I will look at it. Promise.

Thanks.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Duncan said:


> I am using a borrowed Soliton in my machine...


Uh-huh... and why is that? Having problems with your original controller, maybe? 



Duncan said:


> I have direct drive and a reversing contactor,
> I had set the throttle up and sitting in "drive" with no throttle the car just sits there,


A setup I strongly recommend against using, but setting that aside for the moment... what's the problem here? When not applying throttle the car just sits there, which is as it should be?!



Duncan said:


> I have been pressing the brakes when changing into reverse - and from reverse into forwards
> 
> With the Soliton I was getting a massive thud from the drive-line when I powered up the forward (or reverse) contactors


Are you saying that with the brakes applied and no throttle applied that switching into either forward or reverse results in a "thud" from the driveline? That doesn't seem possible. As Qer said, you need to supply a log file and your settings.txt file to our support address.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> I have noticed with mine that there seems to be a power up delay involved with into or out of reverse for about 1 second. I had thought that it was operator error.


Huh? Do you mean to say that the controller is not responding to throttle for 1 second whenever the reverse input (which has to be active, of course) changes state? 

Folks, please try to be as specific as possible when describing your issues. I am not Carnac the Magnificent, you know...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Tesseract

My fault - the throttle zero had shifted - re-zeroed and cleared the fault codes and it's good as gold

- _Uh-huh... and why is that? Having problems with your original controller, maybe?

_Yep! - I have (had) an OpenRevolt - I am a beginner at electronics and soldering_ - so _I have killed the thingI learned a lot in the process - that is what hobbies are for,

The OpenRevolt is not in the same league as the Soliton - but it is a good controller with somebody competent assembling it

I would love a Soliton of my own - but I don't think I can get it past the spousal approval system


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Duncan said:


> ...
> My fault - the throttle zero had shifted - re-zeroed and cleared the fault codes and it's good as gold


My favorite kind of problem 




Duncan said:


> Yep! - I have (had) an OpenRevolt - I am a beginner at electronics and soldering_ - so _I have killed the thingI learned a lot in the process - that is what hobbies are for,


As we say around the shop here, What Could Possibly Go Wrong?

Generally speaking, entrusting your life to a device you assembled as a beginner electronics hobbyist does seem a bit, well... cavalier, let's say, no?


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Generally speaking, entrusting your life to a device you assembled as a beginner electronics hobbyist does seem a bit, well... cavalier, let's say, no?


What Could Possibly Go Wrong?

Anything you do from hang gliding to crossing the road involves risks,

The main risk with a home-built controller is the embarrassment of having to phone for a tow home,

There is the risk of a failure in the short circuit - full power to motor -
But I have multiple back up systems and powerful brakes - 
From a "Failure Modes and Effects" point of view this reduces the possibility of a really serious outcome

I could buy a Soliton - but the local "dealer" wants $4800 (NZ)
and that would involve a near certainty of serious injury from the wife


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

I've got an idea for an additional feature for the Soliton..

We have the motorcurrent and most of us use the TACH signal to limit the motor speed(which is really important to series wound motors), so we also have the TACH signal available in the Soliton. 

So, couldn't we just use this two signals to protect the motor from overspeed, if there's something wrong with the RPM sensor?

For example: If motorcurrent is >10A for a time x (1s or so) and the TACH input didn't change, then the Soliton will cut off the motor current.

I think the min ppt is 2? So the state will change every 1/4 turn. With 10A applied the motor should do this quater turn. 

Or you could take the motor power instead of the current, which is actually better, because it also considers the applied voltage.

Edit: I don't know, if this is the correct place to post this... just had that idea and wanted to share it.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

I was driving home from work today, behaving myself for a change and when leaving a stoplight the Soliton 1 cut off after a couple of seconds of acceleration. I coasted into a parking lot and tried resetting to no avail. I have full traction pack voltage at the terminals. Err led was on and the status led was sweeping down from full brightness. I figured something had happened to the throttle position sensor and I got a tow home. Plugged Soliton into the computer and it had logged a Desaturation event and then Precharge timeout, no voltage a bunch of times. Measured the voltage at the input terminals to the Soliton and it is full pack voltage. So it seems I have managed to break my toy. Any ideas on what else I can try to diagnose a problem or should I call up and get an RMA in the morning?

Serial number 10-11-8652 and I am running 1.5.2 software if that makes any difference.

Thanks!


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

dougingraham said:


> ...
> Serial number 10-11-8652 and I am running 1.5.2 software if that makes any difference.
> 
> Thanks!


You need to send an email to our support address to get an RMA.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> You need to send an email to our support address to get an RMA.


Emailed the support address. Thanks for the reply.


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## Gozer (Jul 3, 2008)

I am finally connecting a 96 volt quiq charger for my lead acid power supply. A search of the forum leads me to believe that the green interlock cord would be connected to an output on the Soliton 1.
What setting would I use in the interface program for this function or am I way off base. Don’t want to damage the controller.
Thanks
George Delaware 914


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Gozer said:


> I am finally connecting a 96 volt quiq charger for my lead acid power supply. A search of the forum leads me to believe that the green interlock cord would be connected to an output on the Soliton 1.
> What setting would I use in the interface program for this function or am I way off base. Don’t want to damage the controller.
> Thanks
> George Delaware 914


I'm not familiar with every charger made, but my recollection is that the interlock output on the Delta-Q QuiQ charger is the nominal pack voltage. If this is so then you absolutely cannot connect the interlock output to any input on the Soliton controller.

I much prefer installing a microswitch on the charge port in such a manner that will be activated by the presence of the charging cord.


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## Gozer (Jul 3, 2008)

Many thanks for the advice.

I understand the safety nature of the interlock. I guess my question is "will the charger still work if the interlock is left unconnected"?

Seems like a dumb question, but I am forced to ask.

George

Delaware 914


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Sorry if this has been covered. I spent a couple hours searching the site with google. 

I powered up the Solilton 1 controller yesterday for the first time with just the 12 V (ign+ and PGND) and TPS connected. I'm wondering what the normal voltage range is for the evnetics throttle assembly. I'm getting 1 mV in the CW position and 4.08 V in the full CCW position. The throttle calibration proceedure for the controller sets the calibration values to 0%/77%. I get smooth voltage throughout the range. I measure 4.996 V between the S5V and SGND. 

From this thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...soliton1-customer-review-thread-35955p12.html Post 112: "The nominal resistance range of the TPS is not from zero ohms to 5k, but more like from 300-400 ohms to 4.8k." This was from 2009, so I'm not sure if it still holds true.

Well, I disconnected the TPS from the controller. I get a very smooth, linear to my eye, transition from 868 to 5879 Ohms between Pin A (black wire) and B (white wire) when I move the lever arm full travel CCW, and 5331 to 2080 Ohms between C (red wire) and B. The resistance between A and C is 4996 Ohms for all lever arm positions.

I don't think there is a problem, but I can't figure out what to make of my measurements, given I thought the TPS was configured like this:


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

There is a resistor in series with the wiper on our throttle pot, hence, the zero position will be close to zero volts, but the full position will be noticeably less than 5V.

That said, your controller and throttle calibrated fine, so why all the angst?


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> There is a resistor in series with the wiper on our throttle pot, hence, the zero position will be close to zero volts, but the full position will be noticeably less than 5V.
> 
> That said, your controller and throttle calibrated fine, so why all the angst?


Thanks for the response. Like I said, I don't think there is a problem. I guess there is a fine line between curiousity and angst. 

I did think about a resistor on the wiper. From the resting CW position is would make sense if the wiper R was about 870 Ohms. And the 0 V measurement makes sense for a high impeadance input on the controller throttle input. But in the CCW position, if I subtract the wiper R of 870 ohms from the Rab and Rcb measurements to get Ra and Rc, I wasn't getting values where Ra and Rc summed to 5k. The wiper would have to be 1200 Ohms, for Ra and Rc to sum to 5k.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton Jr - cooling*

A little bit off topic, but not 

Today I'll (hopefully) receive my Soliton Jr. and I have some parts left to get.
Especially the cooling is an issue to me.
The pressure of my pump is 2kg (48psi?), so should be fine (?) but the fittings are fairly difficult to choose.
Two 90° degrees angle fittings don't work because of the narrow distance?
The Soliton is aluminum, so brass or V2A would cause corrosion?
Which coolant fluid should I use without dissolve the Soliton by time?


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton Jr - cooling*



brainzel said:


> A little bit off topic, but not
> 
> Today I'll (hopefully) receive my Soliton Jr. and I have some parts left to get.
> Especially the cooling is an issue to me.
> ...


I'm going to use anodized aluminum compression fittings. Plastic hose barb fittings are probably OK too. I will use an aluminum safe, premixed automotive coolant.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton Jr - cooling*



brainzel said:


> ...
> The pressure of my pump is 2kg (48psi?), so should be fine (?) but the fittings are fairly difficult to choose.
> Two 90° degrees angle fittings don't work because of the narrow distance?
> The Soliton is aluminum, so brass or V2A would cause corrosion?
> Which coolant fluid should I use without dissolve the Soliton by time?



2kg is about 4.4#, which is fine. 48 psi, on the other hand, is definitely not fine.

You can't fit two 90° elbows on the Jr because the ports are too close together. So use straight ones.

The Soliton is made of aluminum, yes, but it is plated with nickel, so it will tolerant dilute sulfuric acid acid as a coolant if you want. So use brass fittings if you like.

Despite the previous comment, we do recommend "aluminum safe" automotive coolant, and I personally prefer that you use propylene glycol based coolants because they aren't poisonous to dogs.

BTW - this stuff is addressed in the manual. Please do read it before attempting installation.


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton Jr - cooling*



Tesseract said:


> 2kg is about 4.4#, which is fine. 48 psi, on the other hand, is definitely not fine.


While 2kg is about 4.4 lbs, 2kg/cm^2 is NOT 4.4psi. It is about 28.4psi.

*brainzel,* what really is the pressure capability of your pump?


----------



## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton Jr - cooling*



brainzel said:


> A little bit off topic, but not
> 
> Today I'll (hopefully) receive my Soliton Jr. and I have some parts left to get.
> Especially the cooling is an issue to me.
> ...


my mannual states about cooling
Only use a 50/50 mix of water and aluminum-safe antifreeze for coolant. A flow rate of 1-2 GPM (4-7 LPM) is sufficient and system pressure should be 20 PSI or less. The plastic version of the Laing D5 pump works well and is reasonably priced. 

I would not go to hi in psi or the coolant may go where it is not wanted


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton Jr - cooling*



GizmoEV said:


> While 2kg is about 4.4 lbs, 2kg/cm^2 is NOT 4.4psi. It is about 28.4psi.


Correct, but brainzel didn't specify that the area units were cm², so I didn't make any assumptions about that in my initial reply. I rather expected brainzel to clarify himself in a later post.


----------



## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Thank you.
The pump description is not really detailed:
"Pressure: 2.0Kg ± 10%"
"Rated load spit water: 1320CC ± 10% / min."

brass hoses: OK, better aluminum - checked
straight hoses, not 90° - checked
coolant fluid: automotive coolant type - checked

Michael


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

brainzel said:


> ...
> The pump description..


I can tell just by looking at the pictures in the above ebay listing that this is a gear pump, which is about the worst type of pump you could have picked.

Gear pumps are good for delivering liquids at high pressure and low volume. High pressure may cause coolant to eventually "weep" from the aluminum casting (all aluminum castings are very slightly porous), while low volume means less cooling overall. So, a doubly bad choice.

The pump I repeatedly suggest using is the Laing D5  and unless you have the expertise to choose differently, I strongly suggest you go with Laing.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks Jeff.
I thought it would be a look worth, because I had not to get another pump.
So I would get a better pump (maybe Laing, surely with ceramics) instead of this one.

Thank you,
Michael


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> The pump I repeatedly suggest using is the Laing D5  and unless you have the expertise to choose differently, I strongly suggest you go with Laing.


Your link shows a number of different versions of the D5 pump, including one claiming 150PSI. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laing-D5-St...Pump-72450-150PSI-Max-10bar-NIB-/170951683590

This one doesn't list any pressure, other than to say "High pressure"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Swiftech-MC...g-Pump-Without-speed-controller-/281050710209

This one lists pressure as " Maximum Head Pressure: 3.2m (10.5ft) @ 12V" which I'm not sure how that relates to PSI
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Koolance-PM...g-FREE-FAST-SHIPPING-New-In-Box-/330907266993

Did you have a specific D5 model in mind?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Your link shows a number of different versions of the D5 pump, including one claiming 150PSI. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laing-D5-St...Pump-72450-150PSI-Max-10bar-NIB-/170951683590


That listing is, perhaps, misinterpreting the specifications of the pump. The 150psi max rating is for the system pressure, not what the pump is able to develop itself. The brass version of the D5 is marketed as a "hot water" pump, intended for use in solar water heating systems, to recirculate hot water, etc. It's grossly overrated in both temperature and system pressure for use in EVs, hence why I suggest going with the plastic version of the pump (which is less than half the cost of the brass version).


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Y<snip>
> This one lists pressure as " Maximum Head Pressure: 3.2m (10.5ft) @ 12V" which I'm not sure how that relates to PSI
> <snip>


37 feet of water is one atmosphere which is 14.7 psi .


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

My Soliton 1 is back from being repaired. I shipped on a Tuesday and they got it on Friday. They repaired it on Monday and shipped it back the next day. I got it on the following Monday. All the time was spent in shipping delays.

Kudos on making a great product and on great support.


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## galeson (Oct 25, 2009)

I have finally gotten around to documenting the performance of my Miata. I decided to use the logging feature of the Soliton 1 controller to get some actual numbers. I have attached the logger print out of the first part of this run, but could not fit the whole thing due to the forums maximum attachment size. The graph I made shows the whole thing.
The car is a 1997 Miata and weighs 2720 pounds with me in it, and has an almost perfect 50-50 weight distribution. I have the Soliton, the Warp 11HV motor and a pack of Headway 90S6P 38120P cells (which evidently are not available any more.)
I set the Soliton to shut down at 4820rpm, which is the speed when the car reaches 60mph in third gear, which is the only gear I used for this run. I think in future trials I will set the rpm a little higher to see exactly what is causing the oscillation of the curves as I near 60mph.
I am hoping to get some clarification as to what exactly is happening at the beginning of the run. There is a one second delay between when the motor current starts to rise and the motor starts to spin. And at around 700 motor amps the current drops a bit before starting up again.
I just started from a standing start, without using the brake "burn out" feature of the Soliton and kept my foot to the floor until the end. Also other runs also had similar delays and dips. 
Any explanations?


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

galeson said:


> ...
> I am hoping to get some clarification as to what exactly is happening at the beginning of the run. There is a one second delay between when the motor current starts to rise and the motor starts to spin. And at around 700 motor amps the current drops a bit before starting up again.
> I just started from a standing start, without using the brake "burn out" feature of the Soliton and kept my foot to the floor until the end. Also other runs also had similar delays and dips.
> Any explanations?


What are you asking, exactly? Is it why the controller output oscillates as you approach one of the limiting parameters (e.g. - motor RPM, voltage or power; battery current or voltage; etc.)?


----------



## galeson (Oct 25, 2009)

My question has to do with the beginning of the run. There is approximately a one second delay between when the amperage goes way up and the motor starts to spin. What causes this? I don't notice any delay when I punch the throttle. Is the software out of synch somehow or is the controller picking up interference from something or what?
At around 700 rpm the amperage seems to suddenly drop a little before continuing to rise. It seems to be following the throttle input. This happened on some other runs. Is there a problem with the throttle or is the controller picking up interference from something?
I'm not complaining about the controller, I love it. I just want to be confident in the numbers I get as I "massage" them.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

galeson said:


> My question has to do with the beginning of the run. There is approximately a one second delay between when the amperage goes way up and the motor starts to spin. What causes this?...


Ah, ok. Never seen that happen before so we'll need more info from you, like your settings.txt file, the number of cells and Ah capacity of your traction pack, and what type of tach sensor with value of pullup or pulldown resistor.


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## galeson (Oct 25, 2009)

The beginning of the txt file is posted on my previous post.
The prox sensor is from Automotion Direct and has a 150 ohm pull up and senses one pulse per rpm.
Settings:
Max battery amps 900
Max motor amps 1000
Max motor volts 288
Slew rate 3000


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

galeson said:


> The beginning of the txt file is posted on my previous post.
> The prox sensor is from Automotion Direct and has a 150 ohm pull up and senses one pulse per rpm.
> Settings:
> Max battery amps 900
> ...


To be able to help you analyse the problem we need more than the snippets of information that can be attached to posts in the forum.

I suggest that you save the settings file the controller can provide (there's a link on the settings page for the controller for that) and a few log files that shows the problem, zip them together and mail to [email protected].

Thanks.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Cooling again:

after 300km (186miles) driven the last few days, I took a closer look to temperatures and cooling.
I'll use liquid cooling in any case and probably use an Alphacool VPP655/Laing D5.
But I have a question:
The Soliton fans will start turning at 40°C and the "water cooling output" will also engage at the temperature.
Great feature, but when I come home, turn off the Key and go inside the house, the 12V supply to the Soliton would't stay on, so fans and liquid cooling will stop.
Did I missed something?

Do I have to get an external time delay relay that holds the 12V for say 5 minutes to cool down the controller?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

brainzel said:


> Do I have to get an external time delay relay that holds the 12V for say 5 minutes to cool down the controller?


If you think there's a problem with the controller getting hot when you stop, yep, but is it really a problem in reality? Shouldn't it cool down pretty quickly by itself when the controller is shut off and no more heat is generated?

We did, in the beginning, actually consider having a constant 12 Volt supply (that would make it possible to, for example, run fans/pump for a while longer) but decided to scrap that idea since it is a bit of a hazzle to keep the standby power consumption down and we saw very little advantage with a solution like that. On the contrary we decided it was a big advantage that the ignition would shut down everything brute force no matter what goes on inside the box...


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

brainzel said:


> ... when I come home, turn off the Key and go inside the house, the 12V supply to the Soliton would't stay on, so fans and liquid cooling will stop.
> Did I missed something?


Are you asking if there is some way the controller can magically keep the 12V supply on until the IGBT temp drops below 35C? Nope, there isn't. 



brainzel said:


> Do I have to get an external time delay relay that holds the 12V for say 5 minutes to cool down the controller?


No. Totally unnecessary.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Perhaps my english sounds funny to you, I don't know.
If it's so, sorry. But these questions have a serious background to me, because I would like to operate the soliton as long as possible.

So thank you both for your answers. That helps me a lot.
I coudn't find the information before and was a little bit nervous about it.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

brainzel said:


> Cooling again:
> 
> after 300km (186miles) driven the last few days, I took a closer look to temperatures and cooling.
> I'll use liquid cooling in any case and probably use an Alphacool VPP655/Laing D5.
> ...




why not put a turbo timer in after a min or two your car shuts down 
if the cooling radator is higher than the controller the water will move thru on its own untill it has cooled ?


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

I didn't noticed "turbo timers" before.
Seems that they need to be wired to the ECU?

It is easier to install a time delay relay to hold the 12V for about 10min directly in our application, but thank you for the advise.

Martin and Jeffrey said that it isn't necessary at all before, but I think it wouldn't be wrong and a little carefree for the Junior.

After one blown Curtis, every degree °C counts ;-)


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

If there is a liquid-cooled controller that works at all, it won't need any cooling after shutdown, it's a simple physical fact due to miniature area where the heat is generated, very low temperature gradient (good conductivity; otherwise the controller wouldn't work), immediate stop of heat generation when shut down, and huge thermal mass of aluminum and cooling water compared to minimal mass of heat-generating elements. Don't add any kludges that compromise the reliability of the cooling by adding totally unnecessary parts. Use your effort and money to do something that benefits the car.


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## SCEV (Apr 10, 2012)

Is a "pre-charge" circuit needed with the Soliton 1?


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

SCEV said:


> Is a "pre-charge" circuit needed with the Soliton 1?


Nope. Bus capacitance precharge is handled internally.


----------



## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

SCEV said:


> Is a "pre-charge" circuit needed with the Soliton 1?


It is built in. You apply 12v to the controller and it starts precharging and about 3 or 4 seconds later you hear the internal contactors close and you can start driving.

A minimal configuration to operate needs:

1) cables to the traction pack (12V-340V range).
2) connection to a 12 volt source.
3) connection to a throttle position sensor.

Recommended additional connections would be:

4) connection to a brake signal.
5) connection to motor rpm sensor.

There are other optional inputs and outputs that can be configured but they are not necessary and you can read about them in the manual.

When I got mine I literally had the motor spinning on the workbench in less than an hour.

You do need a device with an ethernet port and a web browser in order to configure the unit. Laptop is convenient but I just use my desktop and a 50ft ethernet cable.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

galeson said:


> I have finally gotten around to documenting the performance of my Miata. I decided to use the logging feature of the Soliton 1 controller to get some actual numbers. I have attached the logger print out of the first part of this run, but could not fit the whole thing due to the forums maximum attachment size. The graph I made shows the whole thing.
> The car is a 1997 Miata and weighs 2720 pounds with me in it, and has an almost perfect 50-50 weight distribution. I have the Soliton, the Warp 11HV motor and a pack of Headway 90S6P 38120P cells (which evidently are not available any more.)
> I set the Soliton to shut down at 4820rpm, which is the speed when the car reaches 60mph in third gear, which is the only gear I used for this run. I think in future trials I will set the rpm a little higher to see exactly what is causing the oscillation of the curves as I near 60mph.
> I am hoping to get some clarification as to what exactly is happening at the beginning of the run. There is a one second delay between when the motor current starts to rise and the motor starts to spin. And at around 700 motor amps the current drops a bit before starting up again.
> ...


Did you find the solution for this?
I discovered the same phenomenon, today.

Additionally there seems to be really much noise on the RPM signal.
The inductive sensor puts out two pulses per turn with an almost equal length of high and low signal.
It's a PNP sensor, which is pulled down to GND with an 1k resistor.

I attached the settings and the Log.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Did you find the solution for this?
> I discovered the same phenomenon, today.
> 
> Additionally there seems to be really much noise on the RPM signal.
> ...


Just a comment, in the attached Soliton1 settings you have motor current at 900 and battery current at 1000, did you intend to have those the other way around???


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

rwaudio said:


> Just a comment, in the attached Soliton1 settings you have motor current at 900 and battery current at 1000, did you intend to have those the other way around???


Thanks for your answer..
No, I did this on purpose to protect my clutch in third gear. In fourth and fifth it's slipping anyway (if you floor the throttle).


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marc02228 said:


> Did you find the solution for this?
> I discovered the same phenomenon, today.
> 
> Additionally there seems to be really much noise on the RPM signal.
> ...


You can go as low as 180 ohms for the pulldown (or pullup) resistor; try adding another 1k resistor in parallel to the first and see if that reduces the amount of noise picked up.

The sensors we recommend in the FAQ on our website use shielded cable. It isn't always necessary, but it can't hurt and often times can help tremendously. There is at least one other post in this thread discussing this.

In the meantime, make sure the tach sensor cable does not run parallel to either the motor or battery cables and is otherwise as short as possible.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

running the tach cable in the space between the two fans on the top seems to help also.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

hi to all is there any way to have a buzzer at a set rpm so my co driver does not over rev the car
thanks
owen
sol 1


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

evnz said:


> hi to all is there any way to have a buzzer at a set rpm so my co driver does not over rev the car
> thanks
> owen
> sol 1


Not really, no. But you can set maximum RPM to stop him from doing it at all.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Qer said:


> Not really, no. But you can set maximum RPM to stop him from doing it at all.


This function works well although it's a pretty abrupt power cut off. I've hit my set maximum RPM a few times and regretted it when I nearly got whiplash


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

yeah like all things Evnetics, rpm over speed suppression works REALLY well.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yeah, RPM limiting is a bit abrupt, I'll admit. The reason why that is so is because the primary control loop in the controller is for motor current (ie - torque). Other limits like motor voltage, RPM, battery current, etc., are treated in more of a binary fashion. That is, if the motor RPM rises above the programmed limit then the controller cuts the output current to zero. We do it this way because the controller doesn't know why the RPM limit was exceeded, and so it doesn't know if merely cutting the current by 10% will suffice (from simple overspeed), or if killing current completely is necessary (because a gear is stripped, clutch is slipping, a half-shaft broke, etc..).

Additionally, we feel that you should know for sure whenever you've exceeded a hard limit like maximum motor RPM. After all, the idea behind a "hard" limit is that exceeding it could be destructive...


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougingraham 
...
1) An over rev output...

answered by tesseract

That is already implemented in a way - the error light blinks slowly if the motor RPM exceeds the set limit (it also blinks slowly if the controller is too hot, or the tachometer signal goes missing... ) 

from owen
to me after reading this i could put a buzzer on the error light so if any thing is wrong it will tell the driver as soon as it happens


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

evnz said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by dougingraham
> ...
> 1) An over rev output...
> ...


Just in case you didn't know you can program one of the outputs to be the error light.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> ...
> to me after reading this i could put a buzzer on the error light so if any thing is wrong it will tell the driver as soon as it happens


This will work, as long as the combined load of the buzzer and idiot light is less than a few hundred mA. I, personally, think this would be annoying as hell, but that might just be me.




skooler said:


> Just in case you didn't know you can program one of the outputs to be the error light.


There is just the one dedicated error light output; the programmable outputs can't be set to duplicate this function.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

guaranteed the light is not required as the controller definitely lets you know when you over speed. Otoh, it is kinda nice to know why you are getting slammed back and forth.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> guaranteed the light is not required as the controller definitely lets you know when you over speed. Otoh, it is kinda nice to know why you are getting slammed back and forth.


Mmm... not to point out the bleedingly obvious here again, but... the RPM limit in the controller is to prevent (or reduce the likelihood, anyway) of catastrophic destruction in the event that the driver misses a shift, the clutch slips, something breaks, etc... It's supposed to be unpleasant and unmistakeable when it kicks in, not unnoticeable like the RPM regulation loop used for idle. 

If you are bumping into the RPM limit often enough to provoke commenting about it here then perhaps you need to revisit your gear ratios, settings, etc... Just sayin'...


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Mmm... not to point out the bleedingly obvious here again, but... the RPM limit in the controller is to prevent (or reduce the likelihood, anyway) of catastrophic destruction in the event that the driver misses a shift, the clutch slips, something breaks, etc... It's supposed to be unpleasant and unmistakeable when it kicks in, not unnoticeable like the RPM regulation loop used for idle.
> 
> If you are bumping into the RPM limit often enough to provoke commenting about it here then perhaps you need to revisit your gear ratios, settings, etc... Just sayin'...


I've never found the abrupt nature of the RPM limit to be a problem. On the contrary, if I did break a driveshaft or something I'd want the motor to stop immediately upon reaching it's set limit. It really doesn't take very long for an unloaded electric motor to rev up several thousand RPM. 

That being said, it's worth noting for newby's that the nature of electric motors are such that it is very easy to lose track of what RPM you're traveling at. In my ICE car I could never mistake the difference between 2,000 RPM and 5,000 RPM (the engine is screaming at me at 5,000 RPM) but in my electric car it feels and sounds pretty much the same. Plus in my electric car I really don't shift that often so it becomes easy to forget that I need to keep an eye on the tachometer. These days unless I'm feeling my oats I pretty much take off in 3rd and leave it there until I get onto the highway. I've always felt that a tachometer was optional in a vehicle but I'd say it's pretty much manditory in an electric vehicle conversion.


----------



## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

They are a must one of the members killed his motor in less than 3 seconds if he had the tac and limiter set up thing may have been different


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> If you are bumping into the RPM limit often enough to provoke commenting about it here then perhaps you need to revisit your gear ratios, settings, etc... Just sayin'...


YOU missed the point: the rpm limit works marvelously well. Perhaps even idiot proof, as I test it often but I have it set very conservatively to protect the motor. Possibly the most important side function of your controller.

in my case it is set for 4500 rpm. 4495 is OK, 4503 is dead off. As one is climbing the 5% hill trying to get around that idiot on the freeway you KNOW that you just hit 4503 rpm and it is time to shift to OD. The warning light just confirmed your stoopid mistake, but before you can hit the clutch pedal, rpm just dropped below 4495 and you're back in business. Even at 2 1/2 tons with lead, an 11" Kostov will impress you here. Rinse and repeat twice, appropriate 4 letter swear word of your choice, GET OFF the go pedal, and shift while the idiot in the right lane pulls ahead. 

you're correct, perhaps I should change the settings (once again, but they are never perfect for the current situation).

NAAH. they work for me. YMMV however.

Still the best dang controller out there, bar none.


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

I can definitely see the desire for a shift light AND that using the RPM limit as one isn't a good idea. If it's not easy of convenient for EVNetics to include a shift light output in the Solitons its not the end of the world-there are a multitude of shift lights out there including DIY versions.


----------



## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

what size of relay can my soliton 1 drive
as my dash light earths (- ive )to go on and the err light is + ive 
thanks
owen


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> what size of relay can my soliton 1 drive


Pretty much any standard automotive relay. I should note that some automotive relays have built in clamp diodes; if so, you need to pay attention to the coil polarity (the Soliton outputs +12V when high; ground when low).


----------



## French_TIG (Oct 23, 2012)

Hello,

I used Solution1 and i am looking for "brake motor".
I have read on the manual, the "regen" facility is possible but not available.
Could you give us more information about thie facility ?

My target is to decrease the rotor speed during the brake or gear change. (and limit the inertia effect, it's really penalizing during brake phase ( on track ))
Not really charge batteries during these phase.

Thanks for your help,
Regards

NB : Solution1 is watercooled, i imagine the regen facility increase the solution1 temperature ?


----------



## mira9_cz (Feb 27, 2013)

Yes, this is my question as well. I would like to help my old weak drum brakes, I do not need to recuperate.




French_TIG said:


> Hello,
> 
> I used Solution1 and i am looking for "brake motor".
> I have read on the manual, the "regen" facility is possible but not available.
> ...


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

French_TIG said:


> ...
> I used Solution1 and i am looking for "brake motor".
> I have read on the manual, the "regen" facility is possible but not available.
> Could you give us more information about thie facility ?


Regen with a series DC motor requires reversing the polarity of the field with respect to the armature and then changing the controller topology from a buck, or step-down, to a boost, or step-up. That's not only a lot of work, it's also very risky, both of which are the reasons why we have not pursued this in the two years since doing the initial regen experiments.

Some of the Zapi brand of DC motor controllers can do regen, but they also tend to blow up when doing so; we saw a similar potential for mayhem with the Soliton1 and decided any positives from being able to do regen would be more than offset from the negatives of controllers blowing up in the process.


----------



## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

hi to all
I have a pump out of a prius (it has a good flow) I have it doing a loop thru my Soliton 1 and then thru the old air con radiator into a cach tank and then to the pump again I get 4 psi in the loop will the flow be harmful ?

Thanks
owen


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> I have a pump out of a prius (it has a good flow)...


This is addressed on p10 of the manual:



> A flow rate of 1-2 GPM (4-7 LPM) is sufficient and system pressure should be 20 PSI or less.


That said, I had the impression that the electric coolant pump in the Prius operates at a much higher pressure and flow rate... can you post the part number of the pump, or, at least, a picture?


----------



## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Sorry can not help with the part number or pic (maybe in a day or two) it is for the inverter on a 2003 to 2009 Prius it's a centrifugal pump and is polarity sensitive so at a guess a brushless motor I have slowed the flow by reducing the hose from 5/8 and the air con radiator is only 1/8 out let after the controller 
The controller will turn it on and off as needed I was just being sure that I did not put to much in and flood the inside

Thanks
Owen


----------



## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Got the Toyota, P/N G9020-47031 for the pump
I hope the number stays the same in different countrys


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Seems to be http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/toyota~pump~assy~water~w~motor~bracket~G9020-47031.html


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> Got the Toyota, P/N G9020-47031 for the pump
> I hope the number stays the same in different countrys


I didn't find any specifications for pressure/volume after a cursory search on this part number, but I did notice that this pump seems to fail a lot. I suggest you NOT use this pump for cooling your controller. Try to get something that at least nominally matches the recommended Laing D5 pump in pressure/volume.


----------



## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

What kind of fluid do you recommend for operation +35°C (summer) to -15°C (winter)?
The fluid should be compatible to aluminum, so any good spare part dealer should have one for traditional car cooler, but what's about antifreeze?
Could I take the same one for ICE aluminum cooler?


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

brainzel said:


> What kind of fluid do you recommend for operation +35°C (summer) to -15°C (winter)?...


This is also addressed on p10 of the manual... 



> Only use a 50/50 mix of water and aluminum-safe antifreeze for coolant.


While every surface of the controller - internal and external - is plated with nickel, and therefore much more corrosion-resistant than aluminum, it is still best to use anti-freeze both for the wider temperature range as well as to prevent scale formation (ie - minerals dissolved in the water precipitating out).


----------



## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

I read the manual, thanks.
I hoped to get some more details like "Take Glysantin.", "only the blue one, not the pink" or "everything without silicate is ok".

But if it doesn't really matters, I take the standard ICE aluminum-safe antifreeze for coolant with distilled water.

Thanks.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

brainzel said:


> I read the manual, thanks.
> I hoped to get some more details like "Take Glysantin.", "only the blue one, not the pink" or "everything without silicate is ok".
> 
> But if it doesn't really matters, I take the standard ICE aluminum-safe antifreeze for coolant with distilled water.
> ...


Two things: 1) I know aluminum-safe coolant is safe to use with either aluminum or nickel-plated aluminum, hence why I recommend it in the Soliton owner's manual; 2) I am a hardware design engineer, not a chemical engineer or metallurgist, etc., so please don't assume that I (or anyone else at Evnetics, frankly) can provide expert advice about every last detail involved in converting a car.

In other words, I recommended a type of coolant that I know will be safe. Could other coolants be used? More than likely, yes. However, if you send a controller back to us (from Germany, no less) because it has suddenly shorted out internally from coolant leaks and it is more than 1 year old all I can say is that the repair bill (and shipping) will be expensive.

Like the above question about the Toyota Prius coolant pump, it's best to be safe here. After all it's not like I am recommended especially exotic pumps or coolants - the Laing d5 is available all over the world for $60-$80 and aluminum-safe coolant is the most common type these days.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> After all it's not like I am recommended especially exotic pumps or coolants - the Laing d5 is available all over the world for $60-$80 and aluminum-safe coolant is the most common type these days.


Where can you find the Laing d5 for $80? Look like about $270 for in stock pricing and a used one on EBay for $155.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

dougingraham said:


> Where can you find the Laing d5 for $80? Look like about $270 for in stock pricing and a used one on EBay for $155.


You must be looking at the brass housing version that is for hot water / solar installations; look for the plastic bodied version that is often used for high-end CPU coolers.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

could you please help a not to compertent computer person to set up the logger program I got the logger.exe and opened it now what ?

thanks
owen 
26 km ev driving so far


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> could you please help a not to compertent computer person to set up the logger program I got the logger.exe and opened it now what ?
> ...


1. connect controller to computer with ethernet cable
2. turn on controller
3. open up logger.exe*
4. drive around or do whatever test you want
5. close logger
6. open up file called "logger.txt" in the same folder as logger.exe can be found (e.g. - on the desktop).

What are you not doing or seeing?


* - the first time you run logger.exe from a given location (e.g. - desktop) in Windows Vista and later it will pop up a dialog box asking you if it is ok to let logger.exe have access to both public and private networks, with just the box for private networks already checked. You need to check the box for public networks as well then click the "allow access" button. See below:


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Two things: 1) I know aluminum-safe coolant is safe to use with either aluminum or nickel-plated aluminum, hence why I recommend it in the Soliton owner's manual; 2) I am a hardware design engineer, not a chemical engineer or metallurgist, etc., so please don't assume that I (or anyone else at Evnetics, frankly) can provide expert advice about every last detail involved in converting a car.
> 
> In other words, I recommended a type of coolant that I know will be safe. Could other coolants be used? More than likely, yes. However, if you send a controller back to us (from Germany, no less) because it has suddenly shorted out internally from coolant leaks and it is more than 1 year old all I can say is that the repair bill (and shipping) will be expensive.
> 
> ...


I took coolant fluid G12++ (same as Glysantin Dynamic Protect/G 40).
This is the specifications, that is recommended for high class ICE aluminum engines and radiators like BMW, Mercedes and Audi.
It's antifreeze up to -30° (-15° 1:1 distilled water).
That should work.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> 1. connect controller to computer with ethernet cable
> 2. turn on controller
> 3. open up logger.exe*
> 4. drive around or do whatever test you want
> ...


I did 1,2 & 3 but I had no luck with geting to logger.exe to comunercate with the controller I got no network question (windows 7) I will try again tomorrow night


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

evnz said:


> I did 1,2 & 3 but I had no luck with geting to logger.exe to comunercate with the controller I got no network question (windows 7) I will try again tomorrow night


If you do 1 & 2, wait for a minuter or two and then

- click on the start button
- select "Run...", write "cmd" (without quotes) and press enter
- in the cmd window that should show up (sorry for the many steps here) write "ipconfig" (once more without quotes)

What do you get back?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> I did 1,2 & 3 but I had no luck with geting to logger.exe to comunercate with the controller I got no network question (windows 7) I will try again tomorrow night


I don't recall seeing you mention whether you were able to change settings in the controller's web interface... also, what version of code is your controller running?

Basically, though, if you can change settings on your controller via the webserver then logger should work.

The network question only pops up the first time you run logger from a given location; if you move logger to a different folder and run it from there Windows Vista or 7 (not sure about 8, but likely) will ask the network question again. So, I would try moving logger to a new folder on your desktop before going through the pain/misery of ipconfig.


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Any tricks to web interface? I have a hard time connecting and things lock up when I try to write a new value.
I have turned off my antivirus software, tried 2 browsers.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> Any tricks to web interface? I have a hard time connecting and things lock up when I try to write a new value.
> I have turned off my antivirus software, tried 2 browsers.


There are two FAQ entries on our website that deal with this:

http://www.evnetics.com/support/faq/


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

to elevatorguy try google chrome It worked for me
to Tesseract and Qer ... I got the logger working and got a friend to drive it gave the info i needed. 

thanks for your help
owen


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

evnz said:


> to elevatorguy try google chrome It worked for me
> to Tesseract and Qer ... I got the logger working and got a friend to drive it gave the info i needed.
> 
> thanks for your help
> owen


I will give that a try, I get it to work but have to log in/reset a lot with IE and firefox, thanks.


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## evnz (Jul 24, 2010)

just a quick question can I run a 500w heater off my Soliton 1 in coming (from the batteries) terminals with out making problems 
thanks 
owen


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

evnz said:


> just a quick question can I run a 500w heater off my Soliton 1 in coming (from the batteries) terminals with out making problems


If the heater is just a heater - ie, no other electronics inside, just a resistive heating element and a DC-rate contactor/switch - then sure.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Just remember to put the higher power lugs on the bottom of the terminal post.

With the higher power lugs above the lower power ones all current will need to pass through the lower power lug and/or the terminal post itself - Not good!


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

Hi,

my Soliton 1 controller did not power up the contactors yesterday (Im in contact with the support from evnetics).
Looks like the voltage sensor in the soliton is reading wrong when it is cold. In warm condition, it is booting as normal also several times after each other with a few seconds waiting time between.
Did anyone have an issue at this step with his Soliton in the past?
It worked for one year now great.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Elegancec said:


> Hi,
> 
> my Soliton 1 controller did not power up the contactors yesterday (Im in contact with the support from evnetics).
> Looks like the voltage sensor in the soliton is reading wrong when it is cold. In warm condition, it is booting as normal also several times after each other with a few seconds waiting time between.
> ...


 What is your 12v voltage?

What is the error as shown on the soliton web page?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

skooler said:


> What is your 12v voltage?
> 
> What is the error as shown on the soliton web page?


Thanks for your help, skooler, but I have already exchanged numerous emails with this customer since yesterday. I think he is fishing to see if this is a common problem, which it isn't.

As of the latest email, his controller thinks the pack voltage is 72V (0x0048 in hex). He doesn't mention it here, but he has the Rebbl EMC package installed, and in my latest response I suggested that this error there could be from leakage pathways to vehicle chassis both in the battery pack (including the Rebbl-fitted EMC filter) and in the motor (the usual culprit there being brush dust). These leakage pathways form a voltage divider that can fool the isolated pack voltage measurement circuit. We've only seen this once or twice before in the last 5+ years, so it is definitely not a common problem.


----------



## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

Tesseract said:


> Thanks for your help, skooler, but I have already exchanged numerous emails with this customer since yesterday. I think he is fishing to see if this is a common problem, which it isn't.
> 
> As of the latest email, his controller thinks the pack voltage is 72V (0x0048 in hex). He doesn't mention it here, but he has the Rebbl EMC package installed, and in my latest response I suggested that this error there could be from leakage pathways to vehicle chassis both in the battery pack (including the Rebbl-fitted EMC filter) and in the motor (the usual culprit there being brush dust). These leakage pathways form a voltage divider that can fool the isolated pack voltage measurement circuit. We've only seen this once or twice before in the last 5+ years, so it is definitely not a common problem.


I've wondered what the Rebbl EMC package has added... Have they added X and Y caps to the pack? What other things are added in the Rebbl EMC modifications?


----------



## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

Evnetics is getting a bit of a bashing on EVTV this week in the video and blog. I've seen plenty of support from them on this site, so perhaps they don't read here. I realize that ReBirth is closed, but that was a separate business from Evnetics as far as I know. It might be worth a quick note to EVTV that you guys still support your customers, even if new component designs are "on the shelf" at this point.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

I wouldn't call it bashing. Jack made a comment that someone said they were having problems getting support on their Soliton. I've had nothing but exemplary service from Evnetics. I just assumed they didn't try the correct channels. I still see postings from Tess so he is still around.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

dougingraham said:


> I wouldn't call it bashing. Jack made a comment that someone said they were having problems getting support on their Soliton. I've had nothing but exemplary service from Evnetics. I just assumed they didn't try the correct channels. I still see postings from Tess so he is still around.



I agree, I see plenty of support from Tess here (including the last few weeks) and that is why I think they are getting a bit of bashing. Maybe bashing is too harsh of a word, but it basically comes across like the customers have all been abandoned, which is not true.



EVTV said:


> And this week we learned that EVNETICS/Rebirth Auto basically is no more. EVNETICS kind of continues furtively making controllers for railroads, but we prefer to forget their life among DIY electric car enthusiasts. Indeed we heard from one viewer who was shopping for an HPEVS AC system for his truck because he just couldn’t get any support for his Soliton1.





EVTV said:


> In the past couple of years, the EVNETICS Soliton1 has been pretty much the duty controller. I actually have an order sitting here for a Soliton Jr. and no idea what to do with it. They won’t return a call. So I guess they are gone. And yes, when this happens, people are orphaned.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

I just went and checked out the Evnetics website. It loaded up, then about five seconds later redirected to some kind of spam/porn site.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Their site is loading fine for me but the latest updates on the front page are from August 2013.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

EVfun said:


> Their site is loading fine for me but the latest updates on the front page are from August 2013.


Yeah, it is behaving for me now (I tried it several times when I first posted and redirects every time. Now it's staying put). But yeah, everything is from 2013. A shame if it is true that they are done--that was a well made controller. But yeah, Tess has been alluding for a long time that sales are bad.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I doubt Evnetics are going anywhere, I believe the train drive has been profitable for them.

I'm sure Tess will confirm.

EVTV - Do people actually watch it? All I seem to see is a self interested sociopath. Anything that works against his interests seems to get slated.

Seemed good until about the time they started selling components.

What has Jack supposedly said? I have no interested in sitting through 3 hours of drivvel to find out.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

skooler said:


> EVTV - Do people actually watch it? All I seem to see is a self interested sociopath.


That's why I watch it  (In VLC player at double speed of course, to make it tolerable)


> What has Jack supposedly said? I have no interested in sitting through 3 hours of drivvel to find out.


Palmer quoted it up thread.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

palmer_md said:


> Evnetics is getting a bit of a bashing on EVTV this week in the video and blog.
> ...
> It might be worth a quick note to EVTV that you guys still support your customers, even if new component designs are "on the shelf" at this point.


So rather than ask me about this via PM or email you decided to spread a Jack Rickard rumor on this old thread? 




Hollie Maea said:


> I just went and checked out the Evnetics website. It loaded up, then about five seconds later redirected to some kind of spam/porn site.


That's a problem with your particular computer (and usually the result of prowling the seedier areas of the net). I recommend scanning/cleaning with Malwarebytes Free Version.




skooler said:


> I doubt Evnetics are going anywhere, I believe the train drive has been profitable for them.


After 2 years of claiming we are about to go out of business, Jack Rickard has gotten it half-right this time. We are going to stop manufacturing the Soliton controllers soon. In fact, we have already stopped making the Soliton Jr and will only make (8) more of the Soliton 1.

However, we *will* continue to honor the 1 year warranty and provide support. Meanwhile, we are negotiating with a few interested parties to sell the intellectual property to manufacture the Soliton controllers for a very attractive price.

So to paraphrase Mark Twain, rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated.



skooler said:


> EVTV...Seemed good until about the time they started selling components.


Yeah, that's our opinion as well, and a big reason why stopped going to EVCCON - nothing like going to a convention run by your competitor, after all. Also, Jack has managed to piss off almost every single person/company involved in the production, development and manufacturing of DIY EV components. I'm sure Curtis will be the next to cut ties with him, especially as his latest schtick is to extol the virtues of reverse-engineering OEM components pulled from junkyards.

And to paraphrase The Dark Knight, in our capitalist system every market gets the products it deserves, not necessarily the ones it needs.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> So rather than ask me about this via PM or email you decided to spread a Jack Rickard rumor on this old thread?


At least this way we all get to see your response and find out what's really going on.



> Yeah, that's our opinion as well, and a big reason why stopped going to EVCCON - nothing like going to a convention run by your competitor, after all. Also, Jack has managed to piss off almost every single person/company involved in the production, development and manufacturing of DIY EV components.


No surprise to most of us who have interacted with him  Jack seems to have never met someone he didn't feel the need to insult in some way.



> I'm sure Curtis will be the next to cut ties with him, especially as his latest schtick is to extol the virtues of reverse-engineering OEM components pulled from junkyards.


I'm with Jack on this one, it was the inevitable direction for the DIY market to go, just as it was for the DIY ICE market. OEM spec liquid cooled AC motors and other components at junk yard pricing are hard to beat. I just wish it were someone else leading the movement to gain control of OEM components. GEVCU is a great concept.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Sad news. The evnetics controller is probably one of the only products I've purchased for my ev that has been problem free and well supported by the manufacturer/seller. 

Here's hoping you find a good partner to continue manufacturing this product and that you personally stay involved in the DIY EV community.

I'm not sure I'm personally buying into jack r's vision. If the only way to build an ev in the future is to rummage through wrecking yards and hack relatively low powered oem drive trains in an effort to build sleeper ev's I'm not sure I'm that interested. Imagine if the the hot rod community was forced to only use oem equipment...


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> That's a problem with your particular computer (and usually the result of prowling the seedier areas of the net). I recommend scanning/cleaning with Malwarebytes Free Version.


I appreciate, like always, your condescension, but no it most certainly was not a computer issue.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Hollie Maea said:


> I appreciate, like always, your condescension, but no it most certainly was not a computer issue.


Actually, condescension wasn't my intent. It is almost certain that your browser or computer have malware because no one else is reporting that our site redirects them to porn/etc.

You do seem to have a pattern of interpreting what I write in the most negative possible way; fortunately for me, I won't have to worry about that possibly depressing sales now.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Actually, condescension wasn't my intent. It is almost certain that your browser or computer have malware because no one else is reporting that our site redirects them to porn/etc.
> 
> You do seem to have a pattern of interpreting what I write in the most negative possible way; fortunately for me, I won't have to worry about that possibly depressing sales now.


Just tried it. I get the redirect issue on my pc, tablet and mobile (cell).


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Actually, condescension wasn't my intent. It is almost certain that your browser or computer have malware because no one else is reporting that our site redirects them to porn/etc.
> 
> You do seem to have a pattern of interpreting what I write in the most negative possible way; fortunately for me, I won't have to worry about that possibly depressing sales now.


Several reasons why I am pretty sure it was not a computer issue:

1. I'm very careful with my device. No "shady parts of the internet" being visited.

2. I am having no other symptoms of malware, either from any other website I visit, or from other actions of the device.

3. The device I used was an iPad. Not the most conducive platform for malware. Could happen I suppose.

Anyway, if you are 100 percent sure that it's just on my end, then feel free to disregard. Still, it probably wouldn't hurt for the webmaster to do a quick check of the scripts while he's finding out why the site is giving the exciting news that Kansas-Blue now carries Soliton (I'm not the only one who sees that).


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Yukon_Shane said:


> I'm not sure I'm personally buying into jack r's vision. If the only way to build an ev in the future is to rummage through wrecking yards and hack relatively low powered oem drive trains in an effort to build sleeper ev's I'm not sure I'm that interested. Imagine if the the hot rod community was forced to only use oem equipment...


Think about it from Jack's perspective: This is a great opportunity to have Colin Kidder and Ed Clausen to write him free code (until he drives them away and calls them names on his show, of course) and to get salvaged parts for next to nothing and sell them for high prices.

Sounds like a win-win, and certainly a reason to complain for two hours on air about anyone who wants to do things differently...


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> You do seem to have a pattern of interpreting what I write in the most negative possible way; fortunately for me, I won't have to worry about that possibly depressing sales now.


For the record, the only thing I have ever complained about is your sometimes prickly attitude towards people--something you often freely admit to.

Honestly, I think you are one of the best EEs I know of, and the Soliton is a masterpiece. Certainly its non-viability has nothing to do with the product.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

skooler said:


> Just tried it. I get the redirect issue on my pc, tablet and mobile (cell).





Hollie Maea said:


> Several reasons why I am pretty sure it was not a computer issue...


My apologies... it seems you both are correct. I wasn't getting a redirect on my desktop (FF + AdBlockPlus) but I sure did get one when I tried on my Android phone...  

Chris Fisher handles our website and has been contacted. Thanks for providing the extra bit of information.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> My apologies...


No problem. I'm sorry for over reacting when you suggested my computer was infected. (I spent way too many years of my life doing desktop support at a university, so it's a bit like if someone tells you your main problem is that you just don't understand magnetic circuits). I suppose from your perspective you long ago lost count of people telling you your controller was broken and it ending up being user error...


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Meanwhile, we are negotiating with a few interested parties to sell the intellectual property to manufacture the Soliton controllers for a very attractive price.


Glad to see this, as I was going to ask about you making a deal like this as soon as you said you were stopping production. Something similar to what Otmar did, so the design stays alive. 

Personally, I've never been able sit through an entire episode of EVTV. Jack just has a way of making everything so dry and long-winded that it is just painful to watch. I can see why many people have to watch it at double speed to get through it.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> I'm not sure I'm personally buying into jack r's vision. If the only way to build an ev in the future is to rummage through wrecking yards and hack relatively low powered oem drive trains in an effort to build sleeper ev's I'm not sure I'm that interested. Imagine if the the hot rod community was forced to only use oem equipment...


Exactly what happened in the early days of hot rodding. Plus OEM drives are not always going to be "low powered", and compared to products such as the HPEVS line some are already higher powered. Not to mention that Tesla drive trains are already showing up as salvage parts. Once their controls are hacked consider the possibilities.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> We are going to stop manufacturing the Soliton controllers soon. In fact, we have already stopped making the Soliton Jr and will only make (8) more of the Soliton 1.


Sad news.... but it's so comprehensible because of this:


> OEM components pulled from junkyards.


I wish you the best for future Tess and thanks to have create those incredible Soliton controllers who finally gave the possibility to many people to have a fast EV.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Not to mention that Tesla drive trains are already showing up as salvage parts. Once their controls are hacked consider the possibilities.


It's pretty easy to imagine. For a window of time, you'll be able to get these great components for next to nothing. A handful of people will do amazing conversions for a song, and Jack will make another pile of money. Then the wreckers will figure out that this stuff has value and adjust the price accordingly. In the meantime, companies like Evnetics will have gone out of business or left the DIY space.

It's great that we're getting these new components, but the collateral damage is lamentable. It doesn't help that Jack is badmouthing any alternatives to his new OEM salvage scheme.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm afraid the series DC motor had a limited life span as a choice for most conversions, and EVnetics sales reflected that, even before a robust salvage market exists. Bang for the buck no one should ever choose a HPEVS system over a series DC motor and a Solition, yet many have, including myself, for various reasons. A viable OEM salvage solution reduces the price and power differential further. Plus more robust components such as DC/DC converters which seem to be a weak link for many conversions. Jack is just reflecting the way the market is going, even without his input, it's inevitable. As for salvage yards jacking up prices, that can only work if the DIY conversion market outpaces the available stock. I don't see that happening, since as we know the DIY market is small, and when you can buy a cheap used OEM EV for less than a conversion, may shrink even further, until the hot rod market really starts to embrace EV's in volume, which I don't expect for many years. We are still in the enthusiast stage of the technology.


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> I'm afraid the series DC motor had a limited life span as a choice for most conversions, and EVnetics sales reflected that, even before a robust salvage market exists. Bang for the buck no one should ever choose a HPEVS system over a series DC motor and a Solition, yet many have, including myself, for various reasons. A viable OEM salvage solution reduces the price and power differential further. Plus more robust components such as DC/DC converters which seem to be a weak link for many conversions. Jack is just reflecting the way the market is going, even without his input, it's inevitable. As for salvage yards jacking up prices, that can only work if the DIY conversion market outpaces the available stock. I don't see that happening, since as we know the DIY market is small, and when you can buy a cheap used OEM EV for less than a conversion, may shrink even further, until the hot rod market really starts to embrace EV's in volume, which I don't expect for many years. We are still in the enthusiast stage of the technology.


I don't agree that Jack is reflecting the market. I think it's more accurate to suggest that the market is so small that an influential individual like Jack can significantly sway the market. I expect that OEM drivetrain usage would be a relatively small niche if not for folks like Jack badmouthing DC motors and putting significant resources into making these OEM products available to the public. 

I think you make the point yourself, there is no logical reason why anyone would choose to go for and HPEV motor over a DC motor yet many people did and continue to. Why? I think the answer is probably because folks like Jack told them that DC motors where no good and AC was the only way to go. 

This mystifies me a bit. I understand that DC motors have higher operation and maintenance component then their AC counterparts but it's still pretty minimal when you compare it to the ICE that their replacing. I've run a Warp9 DC motor for 3 years in some pretty harsh conditions without any motor related issues (the only problems my conversion has had to date are related to my poor conversion skills).

I don't mean to suggest that choosing an AC motor is a mistake, this is a hobby after all and people should do whatever they want with their projects, but I'm not sure that most people who look critically at the costs/benefit would choose to go down the AC route at this point in time. 

All that being said, I think this is probably an "industry" that is fuelled by what's new and shiny and right now hacking OEM parts is that. Remember those awesome A123 cells everyone could get enough of a couple of years ago. Don't see those around much anymore


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> I think you make the point yourself, there is no logical reason why anyone would choose to go for and HPEV motor over a DC motor yet many people did and continue to. Why?


There are logical reasons, for me it was regen and low/zero maintenance, as well as wanting to do something different, (at the time). I've seen plenty of people with brush issues and balancing putty issues with the Warp motors, as well as cooling problems. Also the lower RPM's and voltages of series DC can be limiting. There is a reason, actually reasons, why no OEM is using a series DC motor.


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> There are logical reasons, for me it was regen and low/zero maintenance, as well as wanting to do something different, (at the time). I've seen plenty of people with brush issues and balancing putty issues with the Warp motors, as well as cooling problems. Also the lower RPM's and voltages of series DC can be limiting. There is a reason, actually reasons, why no OEM is using a series DC motor.


Agreed, I think there are lots of good reasons, particularly for OEM's, to use AC drive systems. For me the cost/benefit in the DIY market place isn't really there but I can certain identify with the desire to do something difference. 

It'll be interesting to see where it all goes from here.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

Hollie Maea said:


> Think about it from Jack's perspective: This is a great opportunity to have Colin Kidder and Ed Clausen to write him free code (until he drives them away and calls them names on his show, of course) and to get salvaged parts for next to nothing and sell them for high prices.
> 
> Sounds like a win-win, and certainly a reason to complain for two hours on air about anyone who wants to do things differently...


I suppose it was inevitable that my name would get brought up in this discussion. For what it's worth, very few people other than me have been writing code for Jack in the past year or so. There's a range of other people making hardware (Ed and others) and doing analysis on OEM hardware but between Jack and I we basically wrote most all the code. So, if you're going to blame people I guess my name would come up. But, I'm not precisely doing it for free. Cheaply, maybe. Free, no.

Also, open disclosure of two things: 
1. He has bad mouthed me in the past. You can see it bright as day in his old videos and blogs. But, that's the past. 
2. It is also reasonably public knowledge now that I've agreed to work for him on a part time basis (He let this slip in a video a week or two ago). I will be devoting FAR more time to cracking OEM hardware than I have in the past. 

FWIW I am disappointed that it seems the soliton won't be made any longer. I've always thought that it was a good looking controller and high quality.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

CKidder said:


> I suppose it was inevitable that my name would get brought up in this discussion. For what it's worth, very few people other than me have been writing code for Jack in the past year or so. There's a range of other people making hardware (Ed and others) and doing analysis on OEM hardware but between Jack and I we basically wrote most all the code. So, if you're going to blame people I guess my name would come up. But, I'm not precisely doing it for free. Cheaply, maybe. Free, no.
> 
> Also, open disclosure of two things:
> 1. He has bad mouthed me in the past. You can see it bright as day in his old videos and blogs. But, that's the past.
> ...


Glad to hear that you guys have a good relationship going. I guess when I look at the string of wreckage of people who have worked with him in the past, it leaves me pessimistic. But I certainly hope that all stays good with you. You're doing great work, and it always helps immensely when you can get a bit of compensation for things.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Two weeks ago the price for a Volkswagen e-Golf new motor/controller combination showed up in a german form.
It was 4.500 Euros / 4.750 USD for 85kW / 270Nm drivetrain, new and oem quality.
For many VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda cars would it be a drop in swap part if the software would be adaptable.
From junkyard the price will be much cheaper.

Imho, these parts will change the game.

The Soliton is the best DC controller I ever had and saw in some conversions and I'm glad to have one.
But the price including a Motor like the Warp9, adapter, transmission etc. would not be less, with all the restrictions posted before.

So I think DC would loose the battle, except some race applications.

If I could swap my Soliton/WarP/Rebithadapter to AC 1:1, I would not wait a second.

Michael


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## Boxster-warp (Jun 22, 2014)

Hello Michael
I think for a Little performance is DC cheaper then ac.
But the future is ac.
Hmm, and i make a DC conversion 
Greetings Greenboxster


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## efc (Nov 18, 2016)

Is EVnetics still in business? I have been phoning everyday and all I get is voicemal. I can't get a reply to my emails. My Soliton 1 is stuck in disable mode after updating from 1.3 to 1.5.2 and Yes I have calibrated the throttle. Will someone PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact me!!!


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

efc said:


> Is EVnetics still in business? I have been phoning everyday and all I get is voicemal. I can't get a reply to my emails. My Soliton 1 is stuck in disable mode after updating from 1.3 to 1.5.2 and Yes I have calibrated the throttle. Will someone PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact me!!!


So far as I know they're still in business but they've essentially left the DIY space and now only do repairs when they have time to do so. So, I'd suggest a little more patience, as difficult as that probably is. They should still be able to help you but it might be some time before you get a reply and then some additional time if repair work is required. 

Sorry, I don't know anything about them or why the controller would be in disable mode. I know that posting the same message twice is frowned upon but you would probably really be better off starting a new thread to see if anyone knows what you can do. Try to explain in detail what you did, what you tried, and where you're at now.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

The first place I would check is whether or not your device is actually communicating with the controller. Windows tends to be annoying that way and Norton just pisses me off altogether. Can you change stuff in parameters / settings?


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## Pota (Nov 25, 2017)

Hello 

Ive just bough the solution Jr. And i also found out that the company is out of business. Got kinda scared.

How can i now update it to 1.5.2, and also program it since the homepage is down?

www.evnetics.com

If someone have the software, programming tool and documentation. Can you send it to 

[email protected]

Best regards

Thomas


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

First of all connect it to a laptop to see what version is installed. 1.5.2 was out for a year or so. I believe most units were shipped current.


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## Pota (Nov 25, 2017)

I tried to enter


169.254.0.1


But it doesent work. Isent that the way i enter the programming tool?
Im waiting for the shipment.

But if it aint 1.5.2. Where can i download it? and what do i do with the programming?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Pota said:


> I tried to enter
> 
> 
> 169.254.0.1
> ...


No good deed goes unpunished, I see...

You have to first connect a laptop to the controller, then enter the above address into your web browser. THAT is how you access the controller's settings page, not by connecting to the internet.


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## Pota (Nov 25, 2017)

Ohh. So the controller and programming software has nothing to do with theire homepage? Is it built into the controller?

Do some of you have 1.5.2 update or newer and the documentation?

Please send to [email protected]



Best regards

Thomas


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Attached to this post is the Soliton owner's manual. I will try to attach the zip file of the 1.5.2 software package to another post just in case it is blocked (because it contains two executable files). I know for a fact that Gmail blocks these files, so don't bother asking me to email you them. 

That said, Evnetics is no longer in business and I stopped receiving any kind of compensation for both my work and my intellectual property in April of this year. As a consequence, I am not inclined, much less obligated, to provide any kind of support for Evnetics products. I will reply to threads such as this on occasion, but if you need service or even technical support - even to ask a stupid question - then you'll have to pay me for my time.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Let's see if the 1.5.2. software package will be accepted by the forum...


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## Pota (Nov 25, 2017)

I will gladly pay you if i get any trouble with my controller. Do you have an email i can get in touch if i need to repair it?

Best regards 

Thomas


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## Pota (Nov 25, 2017)

EVWest told me to not update the Controller to newest Version if its working. Do you all agree? Incase the New "update" should make the Controller stop working


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Pota said:


> EVWest told me to not update the Controller to newest Version if its working. Do you all agree? Incase the New "update" should make the Controller stop working


Again:



Tesseract said:


> ...if you need service or even technical support - even to ask a stupid question - then you'll have to pay me for my time.


Answering this question will cost you $20: $10 for my time and another $10 because it is something that is covered in the manual, albeit not directly.


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## Pota (Nov 25, 2017)

Tesseract said:


> Again:
> 
> 
> 
> Answering this question will cost you $20: $10 for my time and another $10 because it is something that is covered in the manual, albeit not directly.



I know i know 

Just thought other maybe had answer


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## TTA_Ted (Mar 26, 2018)

I purchased a Soliton1 and a WarP 11 to use in a 1975 Corvette conversion several years ago. The project got put on hold and was recently revived. The soliton is giving me an "ADC out of range" error. I voided the warranty by opening the unit to look for obvious problems and found none. (I know the warranty expired long ago) Anyone have any suggestions?

The firmware was updated to 1-4 the last version I have found.
The ignition was connected to a good 12v battery.
The output was connected to the WarP 11
The input was connected to fresh 48v lead acid deep cycle batteries
A soliton throttle was connected

Anyone know a reliable service center for these controllers?

Updated the firmware to 1-5-2 - new error codes

ADC out of Range [0xff, 0xffff]
ADC out of Range [0xff, 0xffff]
ADC out of range [0x03, 0x0000]
also fan starts as soon as power is supplied and temperature is only 20°c


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

My last race in I was way down on power and originally I thought that I hav blow another motor but after some trouble shooting the signs are pointing to my Shiva being the cause. Unfortunately Eventics is no longer around but maybe someone out there can help. I will do a separate post since it will probably get buried here but maybe one of the Evnetics guys is still subscribed here.

The short summary is in My S10 I am running 4 modified Warp 9's controlled by a Evnetics Shiva and 345v of 3 parallel packs of Chevy Volt batteries. 

Dyno:
A few days before the race I ran the setup on a chassis dyno doing 2 runs at 3000 amps and got my anticipated results. I got 633hp and 1733fltbs at the wheels. This is uncorrected and with the ebrake dragging putting motor mechanical power at 730-750hp. The logger showed 3000 amps going to 100% PWM and a pack sag down to 277VDC The biggest thing of note was the logger showed from almost the beginning of the run "Controller temp high" starting at 40C and peaking at 56C half way through the pull. Past that the results were very consistent with my 1 mile runs. 

A few days later at the pikes peak 

No changes to the truck except a recharge to 343v. Off the line it felt like it was less then half throttle. My throttle is odd so I actually lifted and smashed the throttle again to be sure I wasn't off the pedal. I was way down on power but just kept in it to get 125mph at the 1/2 mile. I have gotten 135mph at 1600 amps so i knew something wasn't right. I had assumed I blew another motor but the gopro under the hood looked great and it still drives fine other then the fact that it only feels like I am getting 1000 amps. The Shiva log says it was delivering 3000amps but the voltage sag and PWM were very small. (PWM never went over 75%) which indicates I was using the power I should. 4.5 sec in the logger showed "Controller temp high" again but at 4.8sec it went to "Running, Controller temp high, Slewrate active". Slew rate shouldn't be active when I am theoretically delivering the 3000a maximum. 

I have done troubleshooting since and the motors checkout fine but I am still getting much less torque then I should for 3000 amps. I did some measuring at 700 rpm idle the logger says it's delivering 80amps tot he motor but using my clamp meter I am seeing about 135amps going to the motors. Stalling the motor showed the clamp and shiva didn't agree (my Milwaukee 2238-21 M12 clamp meter only goes to 1,000a)

My best guess is that it's a problem with the current reading so the Shiva thinks it is regulating to what it thinks is 3000 amps but is really about 1/3 that amount. I haven't pulled the Shiva out and opened it up to test the current sensor. I wanted to reach out for suggestions before I did.

Kerry
More info on the youtubes:
https://www.youtube.com/c/EVEngineering


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Could it be voltage related? Not familiar with Shiva but with the 1 and Jr it limits power when voltage is high. There is a part on it in the manual.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi kerryman

My Paul & Sabrina controller is essentially three separate controllers with three current sensors - I believe that the high power bit is the same as their three phase AC controller

I wonder if your "Siva" is actually three Soliton 1's in one box


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

skooler said:


> Could it be voltage related? Not familiar with Shiva but with the 1 and Jr it limits power when voltage is high. There is a part on it in the manual.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


A good thought, but no. I am at 343VDC well below the 425VDC and it ran great on the dyno with all the same variables.



Duncan said:


> Hi kerryman
> 
> My Paul & Sabrina controller is essentially three separate controllers with three current sensors - I believe that the high power bit is the same as their three phase AC controller
> 
> I wonder if your "Siva" is actually three Soliton 1's in one box


That is really an interesting thought. I think I am going to pull the Shiva out this week (not a trivial task) and take a peek under the covers.

Thanks,
Kerry


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Fwiw in my SOL 1 I have found the AT TINY MEGA processor board to be heat sensitive so at various temps you get various anomalies. I may have also had a desat event on one of the igbts.....


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

TTA_Ted said:


> I purchased a Soliton1 and a WarP 11 to use in a 1975 Corvette conversion several years ago. The project got put on hold and was recently revived. The soliton is giving me an "ADC out of range" error. I voided the warranty by opening the unit to look for obvious problems and found none. (I know the warranty expired long ago) Anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> The firmware was updated to 1-4 the last version I have found.
> The ignition was connected to a good 12v battery.
> ...


Wolf at Wolftronics.com might service it. Send him an e-mail to ask.
As to your error, check the plus and minus 15 volt DC/DC converter for solid output on both voltages.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi All

The Soliton 1 in the RX8 has failed.

It appears as though the connector for precharge has come loose and shorted out on the HV+ copper plane.

We will attempt to clean it up this week and see if it is repairable.

I have been experiencing connectivity issues with ethernet before this (unable to reconfigure) so may have other issues anyway.

does anyone know where it can be serviced or a spare board (or even just the Gerbers!) procured if it came to it.










Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Rumor had it that the control board was universal. Perhaps a junior with a fried power board could be used?


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

*Re: EVNetics Soliton1 - customer support thread ??*

Not sure where to post but would it be alright to run my Evnetics Soliton Junior directly into a resistive load bank? Would this endanger or damage the controller? 

Reason is to load test a large EV battery at high discharge rates in a controlled environment. Seems the DC controller would be an ideal candidate for doing so since I can ramp the current up and down easily. 

Test 1 is with a 60v to 100v module at 450amps down to 0. Resistive load is via large power resistors bank.

Would the lack of inductance cause any problems?

Steve


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

From the manual:

Motor Selection:

"The approximate minimum amount of inductance needed by our controllers for normal operation is 10uH."


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

ok yes its 10hH at 8khz and 25uH at 14khz makes sense, guess I need a very high amp rated inductor, much like a motor?

Steve


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

Try a welder repair shop to see if they have an old choke laying around.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Long time, no log in, but I've recently received a flurry of PMs looking for free technical support so thought I would try to nip this sort of thing in the bud before I get an avalanche of such requests.


Without airing too much dirty laundry in public, the thing to keep in mind here is that Evnetics shut down in 2017 and I got stuck with a massive tax bill in 2018 when my former business partner and his accountant reclasified my pay during the first 2 years of operation as a f'ing loan which I didn't pay back. The IRS only lets you contest/amend things going 3 years back (except in the case of fraud) and this loan write-off was documented by the accountant as occurring in 2010. Needless to say, it was news to me that I agreed to receive a loan as payment for designing the Soliton controllers, but that is effectively what happened.


This should provide some context as to why I don't want anything to do with Evnetics or be active on this forum. I do occasionally provide repair services for controllers and have some of the boards and parts in my personal inventory, but please, please, please don't rub salt in my wounds by pestering me via PM, etc., for free technical support.


I may decide to release all of my IP to the public domain, and might one day be up for collaborating on an open-source project to make an inverter or the like (I design the hardware - someone else writes the software). However, a lot of DIY'ers put the Communist in Community and making any electronic product today is a race to the bottom - I even saw a Chinese knock-off of the Paul & Sabrina Controller on ebay, ferchrissakes.


At any rate, note that Semikron discontinued the IGBTs used in the Soliton 1 so its days are truly numbered, because nothing else in the same form factor came close to the performance of the SKM600GB066D. The same main board was used in both the S1 and SJr, but certain software switches are set when the firmware is flashed so the boards are not interchangeable after that point. I did a minor redesign of the main board at my expense in 2014 which has some functionality and reliability improvements and I would highly recommend all extant controllers ugrade to it, but I'm not sure I want to deal with the headache; I spent 20+ emails on a $75 repair bill about a year ago and it really soured me on doing anything else.


Anyway, that's the story for now.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I can understand the bitterness, what a crappy deal.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

fully understand and fully appreciate all of the support over the years!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Well, I'm not totally out of the EV loop - I still write articles for Charged magazine on a regular basis, at least - but anything related to Evnetics still foments a white dot of rage in the center of my brain. Let's just say I'll never accept part ownership in a company in lieu of payment ever again.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Sorry to see this, you didn't deserve it. Guess I will have to learn smm soldering when it fails. Oh well had orphans before.

Good luck on whatever you do for a real job, and thanks.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Sorry to see this, you didn't deserve it. Guess I will have to learn smm soldering when it fails. Oh well had orphans before.
> 
> Good luck on whatever you do for a real job, and thanks.


I can still perform limited repairs on soliton controllers. Basically, new main boards, SJr gate driver boards and modules, but nothing mechanical, and if you need IGBT modules for your S1 then you are effectively SOL (or will be forced to roll the dice with whatever fake crap is coming out of Hong Kong/Malaysia/etc).

I do highly recommend upgrading the main board to the new version as it corrects in hardware a rare, but potentially fatal, software bug, but I'm not sure what to charge to make this tolerable to provide as a service. While it would be trivial for most here to replace the board themselves, the problem is that the current sensor scaling needs to be calibrated and we used both 500A and 600A Hall effect sensors depending on what was available (both can read much higher currents). So, the controller has to be run at a reasonably high current while supplying a fixed load. Evnetics used a marine dyno, but I still have a resistive-inductive load I built myself so can theoretically perform this service. Probably something in the neighborhood of $250 to $300, which is much less than what Evnetics charged to replace a main board and recalibrate everything.

At any rate, the new main board is revision 4r0 and colored green; the previous revision was 3.0c and colored blue.


Oh, and these days I am designing a high voltage pulsed power source for a company that uses such to generate neutrons of a specific energy level via fusion of hydrogen. It's basically a massive spark gap that is about 1% efficient at converting electrical input energy into neutron output energy (so no overunity nuts need apply). That's about all I can say due to an NDA, but it is hella fun stuff.


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## SWF (Nov 23, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> I do highly recommend upgrading the main board to the new version as it corrects in hardware a rare, but potentially fatal, software bug...


I own a Soliton 1. Sorry if I missed this in earlier posts, but can you provide a little more detail on this bug that the new board corrects? I would have no problem paying for repair, but want to know if this bug would just cause the controller to fail dead, or would it cause any form of safety issue when it failed. This will help me (and other owners) know how soon to get the controller fixed, and perhaps avoid situations that activate the bug until it is fixed.

Thank you.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

SWF said:


> I own a Soliton 1. Sorry if I missed this in earlier posts, but can you provide a little more detail on this bug that the new board corrects? I would have no problem paying for repair, but want to know if this bug would just cause the controller to fail dead, or would it cause any form of safety issue when it failed. This will help me (and other owners) know how soon to get the controller fixed, and perhaps avoid situations that activate the bug until it is fixed.
> 
> Thank you.


The basic issue is that the software takes too long to reduce duty cycle if the motor back EMF suddenly drops, and this can result in the current grossly overshooting the value commanded by the throttle position. If the throttle is already commanding >50% max rated current then the IGBT(s) might fail. We found out about this behavior during testing of a Shiva as a plasma power source - essentially acting as a massive arc welder - and were unable to duplicate it on a dyno (unsurprising) or even by intentionally shifting from 2nd to 5th in a vehicle. 

It would appear, then, that this is not something that is likely to occur, but given that the current control loop shouldn't behave in this manner in the first place I classify it as extremely hazardous.

The hardware fix I implemented was to put back in an overcurrent comparator that simply gates off the PWM signal whenever the output from the motor current sensor exceeds a certain voltage. You might ask why this was removed in the first place: well, it requires setting a resistor value *after* dyno testing because the same main board is used in 3 different controllers with very different voltage vs. current scaling values: the SJr was the most stable because it always used a 600A sensor with a single bus bar passing through it, but the S1 could use either a 500A or 600A nominal sensor (depending on what was available) which was mounted on a split in the bus plate that approximately halved the current it saw, while the Shiva used a 3000A nominal current sensor. For someone building a single controller setting a resistor after testing isn't a big deal, but relying on an assembly technician to make the measurement correctly and solder in the right resistor was deemed the more risky choice. Meh, hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

At any rate, I just looked over the board files and it seems I did not implement the hardware overcurrent function in rev 4.0 of the main board, only starting with 4.1, with 4.2 as the last revision.* Otherwise, the main change in 4.2 vs. 4.0 is that I reverted back to pin headers for the IO cables because it made using the board for repairs much more convenient (using the spring-loaded wire-to-board connectors I switched to in 4.0 was more convenient and less error-prone in assembling new controllers). But, I am trying to recall decisions I made 6+ years ago and I've designed a lot of boards since then. I really should do a better job of documenting this stuff in my schematics.

According to my BOM spreadsheet - using prices from 2013, mind you - the parts costs is about $70, assuming purchasing at least 10 of each part. Estimate about $10 for the bare board and an assembly time of a little over 2 hours results in a cost of about $200 for a new main board. Swapping it out in an otherwise undamaged controller and setting the OC trip resistor (remember, no trimpots are allowed in devices subjected to harsh environments) adds about $50, so make it $250 total (not including shipping, of course).

However, this only makes sense for me to do if I get at least 10 people on board. If I instead just get a trickle of inquiries over the next year or whatever my enthusiasm for offering this service will wane greatly.




* - I found my pile of bare rev 4.1 boards and the solder paste stencil and also determined that the only difference between rev 4.1 and 4.2 is that I removed all references to Evnetics on it; I thought maybe I fixed a minor error as well, but the schematics and boards are otherwise identical.


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

So last week I decided to tear apart the Soliton1 I blew up during the Colorado mile back in the fall. I recorded the teardown and posted it to youtube for those who were wondering what is inside that cool aluminum case. the IGBT's desaurated 30 seconds into the run. Back at the shop I was greeted with smoke when I turned back on the service disconnect. My best guess is the precharge wire came loose and caused an arc across the contactors. (But I am a ME, not a EE). Luckily I never left the switch so I turned it back off only after a few seconds of +2000A of uncontrolled current.

So I would be up for one of those new boards Tesseract. Maybe 2 or 3 if I decide to upgrade my other Soliton1 and my Shiva.

Anyway, enjoy the video:

https://youtu.be/SjAUUseVYFc


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

count me in for one and a spare as well.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

kerrymann said:


> So last week I decided to tear apart the Soliton1 I blew up during the Colorado mile back in the fall. I recorded the teardown and posted it to youtube for those who were wondering what is inside that cool aluminum case. the IGBT's desaurated 30 seconds into the run.



Likely thermal fatigue got them - all power electronics are doomed to die such a death one day unless derated to a ridiculous extent.





kerrymann said:


> https://youtu.be/SjAUUseVYFc



Oh man, if you hadn't tried to power up the controller after the desat it would be in much better condition for eventual repair. If the bus plates and polyester insulator are damaged, though, it is well and truly done for. Also, see my previous comment about the exact IGBT modules being obsolete at this point.


That said, you can try washing everything with 91% isopropyl alcohol to get a better idea of the extent of the damage.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

skooler said:


> count me in for one and a spare as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk





That won't do you much good, since without the calibration data a new main board is more likely to kill a controller than fix anything. It is possible to transfer the calibration data from one main to another, however, by simply reusing the EEPROM from the old main board.


BTW, I did reply to your email within hours of receiving it.


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

Tesseract said:


> Likely thermal fatigue got them - all power electronics are doomed to die such a death one day unless derated to a ridiculous extent.
> 
> Oh man, if you hadn't tried to power up the controller after the desat it would be in much better condition for eventual repair. If the bus plates and polyester insulator are damaged, though, it is well and truly done for. Also, see my previous comment about the exact IGBT modules being obsolete at this point.


I had the same thought but I don't think the desat and the arc failures are connected. Looking back at the post it looks like the arc-over failure is identical to the one skooler posted a page or two back. His precharge leads failed as well, mine was worse as the failure lead to sustained arc across the gap between plates. The power was cycled at the race with no problems it wasn't until after it was flat towed home that I had the problem (heat soaked then rattled loose?).

Good news on the IGBTs actually. A ebay seller has then for a whopping $32 each which sounds too good to be true BUT he is in Saint Petersburg, Florida! Pure guess, is he bought the inventory from the Evnetics auction? He has a hundred of them.



Tesseract said:


> That said, you can try washing everything with 91% isopropyl alcohol to get a better idea of the extent of the damage.


Thanks but already did that. Get one green LED on 12V but no response over the IP connection. 

BTW, no complaints about the Soliton1 and sorry about how it all when down. I too have gone through putting your heart and soul into a startup only to have it go belly up (along "equity" given in place of cash). Afterwards I just wanted to move on, and don't blame you for wanting to do the same. 

And keep up the good work on Charged. I read it all the time and it's the best "no BS" source for all things EV.

Thanks,
Kerry


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## dkubus (Oct 10, 2019)

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has a copy of the last release of firmware for the Soliton1 (was it the 1.5.1?) saved somewhere that they could provide a link too? Especially fond of the idea of allowing a higher "full charged pack" than 342v pack maximum... (150v did i see or even better would be 360v for an 88S lipo pack).

I know that so far every link I've followed gets me to a dead end. 

Cheers and stay safe. 

Mike.


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## SWF (Nov 23, 2007)

dkubus said:


> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has a copy of the last release of firmware for the Soliton1 (was it the 1.5.1?) saved somewhere that they could provide a link too? Especially fond of the idea of allowing a higher "full charged pack" than 342v pack maximum... (150v did i see or even better would be 360v for an 88S lipo pack).
> 
> I know that so far every link I've followed gets me to a dead end.
> 
> ...


Firmware version 1.5.2 is posted here: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...oliton1-customer-support-thread-39252p47.html

If you can't download, PM me and I can send you file.


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## dkubus (Oct 10, 2019)

Thanks SWF 

Cheers from Australia 
Syay safe. 
Mike.


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## dkubus (Oct 10, 2019)

Newly discovered situation with my Soliton1 where my multi-meter picks up full pack +voltage at both motor terminals of the Soliton1 (tested when turned off) and my car drives normally and exhibits no problem at all? 

Could my Soliton1 pre-charge relay be stuck-ON continuously??

I only discovered this by accident as I was tracking down a separate (I think) charging issue that turned out to be a blown fuse in my charger-to-pack circuit (therefore the charger wasn't connected to the pack). I don't know if the fuse blew because the motor controller put pack positive to my chassis via a motor frame carbon track "earth leak" (that I've also now discovered)..... better get in there and blow out some brush dust hey! 

Anyway hopefully someone knows how or what can remedy this situation? It can't be normal for the Soliton1 to have the full pack positive terminal voltage on both motor terminals when the unit is off.. can it?...

I have now also temporarily connected an old incandescent 240v globe across from motor post side to battery negative to see if this indicated voltage had current too? The light illuminated and then dimmed down presumably as the capacitor discharged through the globe, I disconnected it right away to hopefully avoid damaging the pre-charge resistors that may well be the supply of this voltage. ?

now tested with motor controller turned on (motor not connected) and the test globe doesn't light up....

hopefully you guys will have some theory for me. 

cheers guys 
Mike.


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