# AC motor for heavy vehicle?



## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

Maybe HPEVS could make a Siamese version of the AC75. Rumor has it that they are already working on a Siamese version of one of their smaller motors.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

If you are looking for a big Motor check out these links.
Not cheap 5k for the motor plus controller.

http://topekaelectricmotor.com/files/Baldor-Motor-and-Curtis-123.jpg

http://topekaelectricmotor.com/electric-vehicles/ac-project

Kevin is running a full size pickup plus weight hauling motors.

With some hard work DIY, build your own.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I think the motor would be the smaller half of your problem with a 6,000Lb van. The pack will be impressive and costly. 

Kevin is using 64 Hipower LiFePO4 200 amp hour cells. The truck weighs 5,945 lbs, which is in your design weight.

At an approximate cost of $1.25/AH, like CALB's, it would cost $16,000 + shipping.

Plan for that too.

Miz


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree that batteries will be the bigger problem

If weight doesn't bother you, there are all sorts of heavy industrial motors you can use. 

I use a 30 HP 6 pole industrial induction motor in my extended van. It's 440 lbs. The motor and industrial controller (yes it's been replaced and is working) work fine, it's just the batteries that don't perform very well


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## Stiive (Nov 22, 2008)

I'd say you could use a much smaller industrial motor.

You can get a decent copper rotor IM from SEW. I hear the 7.5kW 65kg motor (~140lbs) can put out about 70kW no problems.
You could of course go upto a 11kW-15kW to get much higher output but they weigh about 100kg (220lbs). 
I wouldn't personally go above a 160 frame.


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

Stiive said:


> I'd say you could use a much smaller industrial motor.
> 
> You can get a decent copper rotor IM from SEW. I hear the 7.5kW 65kg motor (~140lbs) can put out about 70kW no problems.
> You could of course go upto a 11kW-15kW to get much higher output but they weigh about 100kg (220lbs).
> I wouldn't personally go above a 160 frame.


Infact, the first motor that my van used for road driving was 11 kW 160 frame. 

I'd imagine it would be perfect if used with a gearbox/transmission to give a little more low end torque


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## Stiive (Nov 22, 2008)

subcooledheatpump said:


> Infact, the first motor that my van used for road driving was 11 kW 160 frame.
> 
> I'd imagine it would be perfect if used with a gearbox/transmission to give a little more low end torque


Was it slow? Are you using vector control? 
How much power are you getting out of the 6-pole? Perhaps both were limited by battery power, but the 6-pole just gives you more torque for the same gear reduction.

That 30hp motor would be a beast


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

Yeah it's mainly for torque that I went for the 30 HP 6 pole. The 11 kW motor wasn't too bad but the van wasn't really fast like it is now with the 30 HP.

The 11 kW motor was 6 poles, and it would saturate at 4x nominal current, (about 76 amps) so I could get ( I assume ) 4x nominal torque, which was only 262.2 ft lbs/ 355.5 nm 

The 22 kW 6 pole motor I use now I've seen use current as high as 106 amps, so on paper I get 385 ft lbs / 521 nm 

Like I say these numbers aren't verified, but the van sure feels alot faster with the bigger motor

Whats more, I wasn't using vector or DTC with the 11 kW motor, I was still using my modified PWM drive which blew due to my abuse. I just used as much torque boost as I could. The resulting overvoltages during regen took their toll on my old used IGBTs and they eventually went out with a bang

With DTC the 11 kW probably could do more, not sure how much though. It got pretty warm a few times


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## Stiive (Nov 22, 2008)

subcooledheatpump said:


> Whats more, I wasn't using vector or DTC with the 11 kW motor, I was still using my modified PWM drive which blew due to my abuse. I just used as much torque boost as I could. The resulting overvoltages during regen took their toll on my old used IGBTs and they eventually went out with a bang
> 
> With DTC the 11 kW probably could do more, not sure how much though. It got pretty warm a few times


Yeh i'd imagine with vector control it'd be a bit faster off the line. Especially if your over saturating the motor, a significant amount of your current could be going to fluxing the motor rather than producing torque.
Vector control wouldn't do much for peak HP though.


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## subcooledheatpump (Mar 5, 2012)

Yeah, with the DTC controller I have now my motor makes more torque and stays alot cooler. Plus it makes full torque when you floor the pedal. 

But yeah those batteries are still really the problem in either case. Atleast with DTC my range increases since like you said, current goes towards making torque and not heat.


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## thatdood (Nov 14, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> If you are looking for a big Motor check out these links.
> Not cheap 5k for the motor plus controller.
> 
> http://topekaelectricmotor.com/files/Baldor-Motor-and-Curtis-123.jpg
> ...


Im really liking the specs of this motor. The battery system I'm looking at now is 144v and 300Ah. But I notice the specs of the motor only give a rating of 72-96 volts. Will it still work at 144V? or am I limited to the 72-96 volt range?


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

thatdood said:


> Im really liking the specs of this motor. The battery system I'm looking at now is 144v and 300Ah. But I notice the specs of the motor only give a rating of 72-96 volts. Will it still work at 144V? or am I limited to the 72-96 volt range?


Are you talking about the new Curtis Controller 144v.
Yes it would work with that motor..The controller takes care of the output to the motor..

Some people claim you can't get much out of a 75HP controller,
But look at the torque this motor puts out. 250 foot lbs at 500AMPs
150 foot LBS CONTINUOIS (its like a diesel engine) Tess.......

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## thatdood (Nov 14, 2012)

Ivansgarage said:


> Are you talking about the new Curtis Controller 144v.
> Yes it would work with that motor..The controller takes care of the output to the motor..
> 
> Some people claim you can't get much ot of a 75HP controller,
> ...


Oops that's what I meant...
Thanks for the input. I think this is the setup I've been looking for.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

thatdood said:


> Oops that's what I meant...
> Thanks for the input. I think this is the setup I've been looking for.


One other thing about Kevins motor is this motor is wound RIGHT
to handle the big amps that are needed to push a heavy EV.

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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

There's also a bunch of siemens motors that different people have gotten ahold of from the AZD liquidation, but it looks like a good controller to drive them isn't all that available in a useable form for someone without a lot of technical skill to get them working. At least at this point. That may change in the next year or so if enough people get behind getting software written to get all those beautiful controllers working.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Ivansgarage said:


> Some people claim you can't get much out of a 75HP controller,
> But look at the torque this motor puts out. 250 foot lbs at 500AMPs
> 150 foot LBS CONTINUOIS (its like a diesel engine) Tess.......


Sure, you can have 250 lb-ft of torque with just 75 hp.... it just means that torque starts falling off at less than 1600 rpm, is all.

This will, indeed, behave a lot like a diesel engine. If you like the acceleration performance of the average school bus or semi truck then this combo will be perfect for you.

Those Siemens motors from the AZD auction driven by a proper 150kW inverter would be more my speed, though (and even then it would be a step down in power from a well-matched Soliton Jr/motor combo).


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Ivansgarage said:


> Are you talking about the new Curtis Controller 144v.
> Yes it would work with that motor..The controller takes care of the output to the motor..
> 
> Some people claim you can't get much out of a 75HP controller,
> ...


 I think you might be missing the point Ivan. I don't think anyone meant "you can't get much out of it" at any rpm. The point was just that you can only get that high torque at lower rpms because of the power limitation of the controller since, as you know, motor shaft power is the product of some constants, motor torque, and motor rpm. It has great torque at lower rpms, but not so high at higher rpm like 3000 - 4000. You can gear up for higher vehicle speeds at lower motor rpm, but then you loose mechanical advantage so are still limited in wheel torque and vehicle acceleration at higher vehicle speeds. It will get to 70 mph, but take a while to do so. That motor and Curtis controller will spin tires and have rocket-like acceleration in a light vehicle like mizlplix's at lower vehicle speeds, but won't maintain it to 70 mph. I think that is all anyone was saying.

But sure, under 50 mph with the right transmission it will be a bulldog. It seems to suit Kevin's purposes just fine - or anyone else that has heavy loads at moderate vehicle speeds. You wouldn't use it with the Curtis controller in the quarter mile though. Just depends on what you want. There is a lot of focus on this site on 0 to 60 mph times less than 10 seconds, which requires relatively high torque out to relatively high rpm. Can't be done without a higher power controller (and battery pack). Btw, I've enjoyed your posts on motor rewinding.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

thatdood said:


> ..
> Thanks for the input. I think this is the setup I've been looking for.


Here is a bunch of post on Kevins truck when he was in the design stage,
building it.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67729&highlight=topeka

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66800&highlight=topeka

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67308&highlight=topeka

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