# Gasoline from air,,,,LOL



## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

What a load of nonsense. ICE and petro barons are getting desperate.


----------



## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

It can certainly be done, but you would need very very cheap electricity, something under a penny a watt, to produce it in any sort of cost effective manner. I think I read something about it on focusedfusion.org forum where people were postulate possible potential uses of very cheap electricity if that thing ever produced net energy at the expected power levels. I wouldn't put much stock in this ever being viable.


----------



## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Why wouldn't they hook it directly to the coal power plant exhaust stack?


----------



## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

or they could just pump coal exhaust into the ocean and turn it into one gigantic club soda...


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

My point is at the end of the day you still have to burn the stuff in the atmosphere. : )

Miz


----------



## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

mizlplix said:


> My point is at the end of the day you still have to burn the stuff in the atmosphere. : )
> 
> Miz



Exactly right. We have to get past burning stuff to get energy. It really is an unworkable strategy for this era.


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

We have the largest controlled burn in the neighborhood near by. It is free and runs 24/7. It comes in many wave lengths. There are no meters.

It is up to us (the people) to steer the industries towards it. 

I recently got a letter from the local power company. It said we were in one of the areas to be served by the new solar power grid. If we wanted to participate, it would cost us $150 per year more than our current plan. 

Our money would be put towards the operating costs, the construction is already paid for with a government grant. 

So, to buy into this solar grid, I would pay $150 extra/year (for a service I already have for my current bill) It really makes no sense to me, but to get behind it I sent in my check. 

Some where in the universe, I hope I have a "Brownie point" in my name.

Miz


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

mizlplix said:


> I recently got a letter from the local power company. It said we were in one of the areas to be served by the new solar power grid. If we wanted to participate, it would cost us $150 per year more than our current plan.
> 
> Our money would be put towards the operating costs, the construction is already paid for with a government grant.


That's the problem with the business end of 'green'. Tons of opportunists raking in extra profits just because they can.

Here we got letters explaining how wonderful smart meters are...less cost to maintain, easier to bill you, easier to monitor and predict peak and base loads...oh, and to pay for all we'll save you'll see a new 'smart meter recovery fee' on your bill. Thanks for helping us make...er be green!


----------



## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

That Water and air thing is at least a year old. I remember reading something about it that long ago. 
I can’t be sure because I didn’t take it serous then either.


Ziggythewiz said:


> That's the problem with the business end of 'green'. Tons of opportunists raking in extra profits just because they can.
> 
> Here we got letters explaining how wonderful smart meters are...less cost to maintain, easier to bill you, easier to monitor and predict peak and base loads...oh, and to pay for all we'll save you'll see a new 'smart meter recovery fee' on your bill. Thanks for helping us make...er be green!


One of the things I miss about living in SoCal is my solar and wind powered Geodesic dome. I got a real kick out of telling the Southern California Edison meter reader I didn’t have a meter and she couldn’t cross my property to read the other meters and had to go around to read them. As for smart meters the jury is still out. We have a co op electric company so there was no extra charge when they put the new meter in. The thing is my bill is lower than before. I have two meters. One to the house and one to the clay studio and my metal shop. Both bills have been lower than usual and we have not changed anything in our electric consumption. I have called the main office and they have assured me everything is working fine. Either I have been over paying all these past years or one of these days I will get a notice telling me there was a problem after all and I owe them a bunch of money. That’s when I just might join the 47%.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Our prices have dropped significantly over the last 5 years (kind of stagnant the last year at ~$0.8) because of rediculously low natural gas. Makes the ROI on solar look bad here, even though that cost has dropped 2x as much in the same time.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> ......or if new battery technologies were implemented instead of loads of announcements and zero real life improvements.



Ever hear of LiFePO4 chemistry? It has improved drastically and still at the same price and is very stable and has made electric cars quite viable and it is quite possible to build a decent conversion that will get you 120 miles per charge. If your vehicle was large enough I am quite sure you could get 200 or even 300 miles per charge and still quite good performance. 

Battery technology is here and good. Be patient, it is getting better.


----------



## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Energy from the vacuum???
Haha


----------



## sirwattsalot (Aug 27, 2012)

The energy stored in the nitrogen is about equal to what a lithium battery can hold. So the range would be the same as a good EV. Like the air car, a fuel is required to heat the gas to make it expand. So now you would need alcohol, water and nitrogen stored in the car to make it run. 
I still like the pure electric concept because it does not burn anything, and I can plug in at home. I can use solar panels if I want to keep it off the grid and avoid the so called "longer tail pipe." I really don't want to have to run to a filling station when I could just plug it in my garage.
I built my own electric car which does not have a very good range but only because I used 9 premium car batteries which are sealed lead acid.
Someday, lithium batteries and capacitors will replace those lead batteries for better range and performance. The cost of the lithium batteries is coming down and it will be affordable if more people use them.
there are charging stations where I can plug in and someday we will be able to plug in at grocery stores, the mall, the movies, and in parking lots everywhere that they want customers to come and do business.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

10C, 3000 cycles, safer than anything out there. I'd call that improvement.

What you see on the road has nothing to do with advancing tech. How many EV1s do you see out there? OEMs don't want new and better tech, they want old and profitable. None of the EV makers are even using LiFePO4...they want something much more DIY unfriendly. Even Tesla wants maintenance fees for life.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I take it you have not used LiFePO4 batteries in the last few years? The cells I purchased 3 years ago were better than the ones available 3 years before that, and the new CA cells from CALB are better than the SE cells I bought from them 3 years ago. Your claims for what is needed to make EV's viable, i.e. "at least 10 times more capacity then current implemented technology and that can be charged under 5 minutes and that cost 10 times less", is not realistic. First of all, the nanophosphate cells can already be charged in under 5 minutes, even though that's not necessary, and capacity only needs to double and costs need to drop by half to make 300 mile EV's very affordable. In other words it's a lot closer than you claim.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Why do you expect batteries to get an order of magnitude better in 3 years? Even computers have never done that.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Double. You're asking for 10x...20x really since you want 10x at half the price.

And why do you thnk nanowires should follow the same law (observation) as transistors?


----------



## DanGT86 (Jan 1, 2011)

__-_-_-__ said:


> who are you to say what's necessary or not? maybe it's not necessary for you. It's necessary to a lot of people.


The same question could be asked of you. You are on an electric car building forum trying to tell a group of people who bought this technology and use it every day, that it is not good enough. Are they imagining that they left there house and arrived at their destination?

Some people on this forum have bought several generations of battery technology and can attest the improvements that they paid for along the way.

You are correct that energy density and charge time don't improve by a factor of 10 every few years but if this were the standard that we were holding all products to we would be happy with very few of them. The argument that battery technology is not improving fast enough seems to be a matter of opinion. 

I am with you in that I would love to see the price of advanced batteries come down and a better charging infrastructure put in place. However I think most forum members would disagree that we are somehow behind schedule technologically making lithium battery vehicles impractical commuters. 

As far as it being a "rich niche" I think most of the conversions I have seen fall between $10k and $20k. That is not far off from economy car prices these days.

I am not trying to be a jerk but if you are not happy with the current pace of lithium battery technology you are more than welcome to not use it.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I have a feeling someone is just a troll, and obviously has little knowledge of what's available or how to apply it. His "requirements" for EV's have no basis in reality.


----------



## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

JRP3 said:


> I have a feeling someone is just a troll, and obviously has little knowledge of what's available or how to apply it. His "requirements" for EV's have no basis in reality.


I have that same feeling.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

__-_-_-__ said:


> I
> but anyway no one will buy them without an infrastructure or better batteries. where can in you charge in big cities if you can't charge in minutes? magic? sorry that does't work.
> .


These guys have an answer to that
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...oad-technology-free-lecture-series-79394.html

They are in production - 70%+ of material handling in electronic factories use their system

Inductive charging at 90%+ efficiency
The static system is proven technology
The dynamic system (charging while driving) still has a few engineering issues


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I believe the ultimate solution will be major lifestyle changes that will make the long solo daily commute obsolete, which will drastically cut per capita energy consumption without requiring huge advances in efficiency. And if we grow more of our food locally, and wean ourselves off of our unhealthy carnivorous habits, costs of transportation will plummet and our roads will become safer, more pleasant to drive on, and require much less maintenance.

We need to address the core problems of our cities so that they will become safe and pleasant places to live and work, where walking or bicycling become the norm, and where many people can telecommute. This will require long overdue social engineering to virtually eliminate crime and poverty as well as overpopulation. We will need to accustom ourselves to a life of leisure as originally promised at the dawn of the industrial revolution. We can minimize our individual craving for personal accumulation of material things that have served to isolate people from each other, and learn how to live in extended communities where fellowship and sharing of resources is the norm.

Much of our dysfunctional social environment has been created by collusion between energy companies, eager to sell more of their product which seemed to be in limitless supply in the 1950s, and the automotive industry producing ever more powerful fuel-guzzling vehicles and advertising geared toward competitive aggressive driving. Housing was built further into the distant suburbs which increased the need for longer commutes as well as more need for transportation of goods, and the sprawl that was caused by the desire for more convenient local shopping.

We are essentially putting technological bandaids on a worldwide systemic disease of civilization where we have lost most of our ability to live in peace and close harmony with other people, and it is evidenced by the growing lack of civility and morality, and the rise of drug abuse and crime and corporate treachery. Our energy crisis is but a small indicator of much larger global problems, and although we can do our part as individuals and small groups, those efforts will not be enough to avoid the inevitable collapse of our economy based on unsustainable exponential growth.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Very well said.


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Very well said.


Yes it was!


----------



## Jamie EV (Oct 3, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I believe the ultimate solution will be major lifestyle changes that will make the long solo daily commute obsolete, which will drastically cut per capita energy consumption without requiring huge advances in efficiency. And if we grow more of our food locally, and wean ourselves off of our unhealthy carnivorous habits, costs of transportation will plummet and our roads will become safer, more pleasant to drive on, and require much less maintenance.
> 
> We need to address the core problems of our cities so that they will become safe and pleasant places to live and work, where walking or bicycling become the norm, and where many people can telecommute. This will require long overdue social engineering to virtually eliminate crime and poverty as well as overpopulation. We will need to accustom ourselves to a life of leisure as originally promised at the dawn of the industrial revolution. We can minimize our individual craving for personal accumulation of material things that have served to isolate people from each other, and learn how to live in extended communities where fellowship and sharing of resources is the norm.
> 
> ...



Well given our track record thus far, THAT aint gonna happen so everybody pray for Cold Fusion!


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Wikipedia: under "Internet Troll"



> In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


It does not specify that the person has to be right or wrong. They just want a response (Recognition).

Our term for the day. 

(Oh, yes....A troll will many times compete for the last post too....)

Miz


----------



## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

mizlplix said:


> (Oh, yes....A troll will many times compete for the last post too....)
> 
> Miz


Not Always! He wasn't a troll, just badly misinformed!


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

When I was young, Trolling had to do with a pole, lure and a boat....

Actually there is a whole list of words that have flip-flopped in meaning:

Gay, 
Shit,
Junk,
ETC.

To the point where I am afraid to engage in a conversation anymore.

Miz


----------



## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

mizlplix said:


> When I was young, Trolling had to do with a pole, lure and a boat....
> 
> Actually there is a whole list of words that have flip-flopped in meaning:
> 
> ...


A couple of years ago I was in the elementary school library with my godson when I got talking with the school librarian who is about my age. We were comparing our favorite footwear when I said I wore my thongs everywhere. For the younger set that might be reading this, in the 60’s the proper name for flip flops was thongs. The young 11 or 12 year old girl that happened to over hear was totally traumatized with the thought of a 65 year old man running around in that minuscule piece of underwear that is called a thong nowadays. The librarian and I mentioned wearing our thongs several times before we realized how badly we were warping the young girls sense of what is proper and what is not.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I think you running around in just flip flops would be worse. Flip flop.


----------



## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

I make methane from air all the time. Perhaps that's too much info?


----------



## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I think you running around in just flip flops would be worse. Flip flop.


What a thought! Quick some one get us back on topic!


----------



## RogueThunder (Jul 31, 2009)

Caps18 said:


> Why wouldn't they hook it directly to the coal power plant exhaust stack?


Radioactivity, for one.

Seriously, look it up. Coal plants are dirty little sobs!


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

McRat said:


> I make methane from air all the time. Perhaps that's too much info?


Na! Its from all that bio waste you consume. I swear it could bottled and get a few miles a month.


----------



## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Radioactivity? Thorium msr's would be awesome!


----------

