# Nissan leaf motor mounted in reverse?



## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

Does anyone happen to know if its possible to mount the entire Nissan Leaf motor and transaxle in reverse, so rotating the tranaxle in reverse during normal use? I am guessing it might need an external pump for lubricating the transaxle... Has anyone torn down a transaxle and investigated the lubrication?


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

pumps usually have a filter, so possibly no pump, just splash, though the splash path may need to be considered.

some disassembly pics, should be able to handle the side thrust change with those bearings:
https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1119_201211#report_area_3

another pic:









I doubt you will get a definitive answer though, and it has software limits on reverse, and it may get confused vis-à-vis the encoder running backwards if you try a phase lead swap hack, without more work.

What is wrong with forward? I mean it already does run in reverse in restricted mode, so it isn't likely to fail right away or anything, if at all, but what is the motivation here?


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

RWD? Might investigate just flipping it over if it is splash lubed.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I'd considered that too, but if you are keeping the inverter then it is a no go.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

reversing with the existing inverter *might* be doable simply by futzing with the resolver, either directly by swapping coil leads (possibly w/timing adjustment) or with a layer of signal processing.


----------



## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

dcb said:


> What is wrong with forward? I mean it already does run in reverse in restricted mode, so it isn't likely to fail right away or anything, if at all, but what is the motivation here?


I was thinking of using it in a RWD position. I would use a different inverter and controller... Just looking at the mechanical feasibility for now. Most of the transaxles have the same kind of splash lubrication, so that's what I expected. I'll have to look to see if there are bosses for connecting an external pump and cooler.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Ah, VW style with IRS! (or porsche or subaru). Sounds neat, keep us updated!


----------



## zippy500 (Apr 3, 2017)

Hi Sholland,

Just out of curiosity did you ever try you RWD flip leaf motor project


----------



## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

No. I am now planning to use the Leaf motor in the front, attached to my Honda transmission. You can see the latest status in the photo below. I just finished making the shaft coupler, and I am currently building a custom controller. The general consensus was that the Leaf transaxle could support reverse mounting, just with an external oil pump and possibly cooler or exchanger.

I still plan to add a motor to the rear. I have a Mitsubishi i-MiEV motor and transaxle that could mount in reverse there.


----------



## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

sholland said:


> I just finished making the shaft coupler...



So, tell us about your coupler, if you would, please. It seems there are a number of people, including myself, who have said they need to do something about making a coupler for the Nissan Leaf motor but then that seems to be the end of it. I think I put what info I had up on my build post but even I haven't looked at it for long enough that I don't remember for sure. I've been working on my adapter plate but that's at a point where I need to get back to the coupler.



Bill


----------



## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

The splined shaft coupler was needed as the Honda transmission is 20T 0.875" and the Nissan Leaf motor is 20T 0.86". So close, but the 0.875" was just too sloppy in fit.

I had the input shaft from the Nissan Leaf transaxle cut off (EDM) as I only wanted the splined motor half and a bolt face, which the parking pawl section of the shaft was perfect for. I then had a machine shop drill bolt holes and turn down the outside face near the bolts to provide clearance.

I then bought a cheap unsprung 'race' clutch disc from eBay and ground off the rivets as I only wanted the splined hub. I then had the holes enlarged to fit the size bolts I wanted, but I guess I could have just the next size down bolt.

I then designed an adapter piece that would hold the Honda pilot bearing to ensure the coupler doesn't float down into the front face of the transmission. I 3D printed this piece first to ensure the right distance between the 2 splined ends. 

I also designed and made an adapter plate that adapted the Nissan Leaf gen 1 motor to the CANEV 'B' motor face.


----------



## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Nicely done and it looks good, too.


Bill


----------



## eBIMMER (Feb 28, 2020)

Hey, I know this thread has been dead for a while but how did this pan out in the car? Was your adapter strong enough to handle the motor torque? Did your sealed bearing hold up to the high RPMs? This looks like one of the cleanest Leaf couplers I've seen yet. I'm working on something similar to link a Nissan leaf motor to BMW E30 transmission. Great job, would love to hear how it's working!


----------



## eCRX (Feb 17, 2020)

Is there an update to this project?

I'm not certain if it was mentioned in this discussion, but people should know that you will need the leaf motor to spin 'backwards' in order to use pre-2001 honda trans. the most common 88-01 honda B,D and H motors all spin CCW, aka "backwards".


----------



## Electric Land Cruiser (Dec 30, 2020)

Check out the Resolve-EV manual, it shows how to mechanically reverse the EM57 direction on page 14. The gearbox should work fine I'm reverse also.









Wiring Diagram & Fun Facts


Wiring Diagram & Fun Facts Preamble This is the wiring diagram for the Resolve controller that controls the Nissan Leaf charger, inverter, motor and BMS. The inverter and motor have to come from the same car otherwise those components won’t work. Identifying the battery pack can be difficult. Yo...




docs.google.com


----------



## eCRX (Feb 17, 2020)

Wow, great info and good news. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

I am using an inverter of my own design, as well as a different resolver. 

The gearbox would need an external pump if run in reverse, as the main gear is used to pump/splash the oil through channels to the rest of the transaxle. Turning it in reverse would not splash it the right direction. Fortunately there are external plugs that can be removed to access the oil channels.


----------



## Carl Duke (6 mo ago)

Hi, Were you able to install the Nissan Leaf motor backwards?


----------



## mannydantyla (Sep 19, 2019)

This thread is a few months old but its the first thing when searching this site for reversing the drive direction in a leaf motor and yet there was no solution, so I will share what I have learned about this.

Isak of Resolve-EV has mounted his leaf motor and gearbox backwards, the back of his porsche, such that the it sits above and behind his rear axle. In this orientation the car would go in reverse when in Drive. But of course he was able to swap the drive directions, and he explains in the video:


Step 1: Swap two high-voltage phases between the inverter and the motor
doesn’t matter which wires/phases [edit: that is apparently not true, see motorcircus's comment bellow]
must be after the current sensor, otherwise inverter sends error messages
if the inverter is mounted to the top of the motor, as factory, then two bus bars need to cross over each other.

Step 2: change the resolver wiring
The “resolver” - not the Resolve-EV controller!
inside the motor housing
swap the grey wire and the white wire






he says he's been driving for two years without a problem.

some stills from the video:




























Yeah that last one is a bit of a doozy. I don't think I would do it that way.


----------



## motorcircus (10 mo ago)

mannydantyla said:


> doesn’t matter which wires/phases


It does in fact matter which phases you swap. First I tried to swap the two outer phases and the center tap remained as is. This resulted the motor jittering as it was working against itself. Then I swapped so that one on the side and the center phases were crossed.

In my layout in the motor bay, the motor and inverter are separated. This allowed me to just cross the cables I made to connect the two. There was no need to tamper with the "bus bars" inside. But I had to make a cover for the copper slabs and cable connections.










I've driven with my Leaf powered Volkswagen Bus in reverse configuration now for over 3000 km. Been giving the drivetrain a hard time with heavy loads, fast accelerations, highway speed 150 km/h (that's where the VW speedometer caps). So far so good!

I haven't yet written about it online but:
There's been some talk about this subject in this build thread:


Voltswagen T2 -76 - Page 3 - openinverter forum


----------



## Zieg (10 mo ago)

@motorcircus are you running an openinverter with your setup? I was under the impression that you could swap which direction was considered 'forward' without any physical changes to the connections. Is that not the case?


----------



## motorcircus (10 mo ago)

Zieg said:


> @motorcircus are you running an openinverter with your setup? I was under the impression that you could swap which direction was considered 'forward' without any physical changes to the connections. Is that not the case?


I have the Resolve-EV VCU as in *mannydantyla's explanation in the previous post. Don't know about openinverter.*


----------



## mannydantyla (Sep 19, 2019)

Thank you for correcting that! Also good to hear from someone who has pulled this off. I'm still deciding if I want to do this so I can put the motor (with gearbox) in the rear, or if I just want to hook it up to a manual transmission via coupler and adapter plate. It sure would be a lot cheaper to just mount it to the rear axles.


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Sounds like you did not rewire the resolver, since you only talk about two winding phases being swapped. Did you?


----------



## mannydantyla (Sep 19, 2019)

@motorcircus, I would also like to know if you added an oil pump to the Leaf gearbox. Thanks!


----------



## Zieg (10 mo ago)

Well for what it's worth, I am _planning_ to use a pump on my reversed install. I was going to post a writeup about it once it's all done, just waiting on a couple fittings from Summit.

As a quick teaser, I bought an electric oil pump off ebay (part number 11417834496) from an M5 oil cooler system. Not sure the flow rate but it's a nice gear pump and the motor datasheet has it rated for 2.8 amps continuous. I machined a block to adapt its flange to some NPT fittings (3/8 and 1/4). Can upload the CAD file and/or drawings if desired.


Plan is to use an M18 to -6an adapter in place of the drain plug to feed the pump, then D&T a port in the housing to fill the upper oil gallery just as it would be splash fed when going 'forward'. Then I plan to add a couple notches in the gallery to allow it to drain to the other bearings that are not fed with this gallery.. My hope is that's enough to get enough oil where it needs to go.


Pump adapter block.. Don't mind the chatter, only chamfering tool I had that was the right size is a godawful POS from Princess Auto..










This is what the pump internal looks like. I would advise against opening yours up if you don't have to - not sure where to source another oring, hopefully this one seals again.










Approximate location that I plan to tap the oil feed line. Used some neodymium magnets on the inside and outside to work out the exactish location to drill the hole.









And the location that hole will come through on the inside (Actually slightly more to the right if you want to be really pedantic).


----------



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Ha - that's the same one I have sitting in my build's inventory, but far from long pole in the tent these days.

Good to have someone blazing the trail on this pump...please keep us posted!


----------

