# BMW E "i5" conversion by Matija



## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello, 

I'm starting a new project. I've been wanting to do an BMW series 5 e39 conversion for several years now. I was giving up of this car because they are almost in very bad condition because of rust and they are not good care . I was looking for cupe e46 or e46 sedan , but they are not so good quality and suspension ar also weak. They are also expencive. 
Last week I found perfect car for my conversion . It is BMW 520i e39 97 year. It is in very good condition , no rust at all . Inside is almost new. It has some parts to be replaced but nothing serious. He has roof window, wich was priority and collor is also that I like. One month ago I bought Tesla battery from S 85 , 9 modules . That's 47kwh power. 
I have some experience in car conversion. Two years ago I converted an old Opel Kadett. 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/opel-kadett-conversion-matija-167650.html
And it very good and reliable conversion, Now it has about 18000 km and still going with no problems .

Now I'm looking for powertrain... These days it is working on hacking Tesla drive train, nissan leaf drive train. But they are working on 400 V and I'm scare to play with this high voltage. Don't know if this will working reliable... 
For instance if I took Tesladrivetrain , I'll put it on the car gearbox with cluch. There is no room on the car for complete tesla motor+inverter+diferential on the car because of car rear axle carrier... 
Don't know if is possible to separate tesla motor and inverter from original diferential.. 
Other easiest way is to put some plug and play motor , like warp 9 and Solitron class motor.. the woltage will be about 220V. This is ok for me.. 
I will see what will hapend in few months. 
Some suggestions are welcome


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

That's a very nice donor car. I'm thinking about my second conversion and have been looking at the BMW 5 series as a donor. I'll be following your thread and am looking forward to see your progress!


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Just a wee comment
"Scared of 400v" - 150v DC will kill you dead - and less than that is no use for a car

Why is 400v scarier than 150v?? - it won't make you "deader"


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Duncan said:


> Just a wee comment
> "Scared of 400v" - 150v DC will kill you dead - and less than that is no use for a car
> 
> Why is 400v scarier than 150v?? - it won't make you "deader"


150-200 V DC wont kill you currently, but sure is not good for health. 
Ill see about voltage, depend of motor and controller


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Baratong said:


> That's a very nice donor car. I'm thinking about my second conversion and have been looking at the BMW 5 series as a donor. I'll be following your thread and am looking forward to see your progress!


Tnx  , I'm glad you like this car  
This car was my boy's dream


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Duncan said:


> Why is 400v scarier than 150v?? - it won't make you "deader"


There is the worry that insulation won't hold up, and that this could start a fire or at least ruined cables, smelly mess, etc. Not to mention the soiled undergarments 

But under 600 VDC isn't too bad, since a lot of cable, fuses etc. can be found with 600 VDC ratings. Over that, it gets harder.

Speaking as one who helped convert a 720 V Miata/MX-5. In the end, we had no problems from flashovers or the like. However it did cost a bit in extra contactors and space to house them, to isolate each battery segment to under 120 V. That was our design decision, not a legal requirement.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

I bought warp 11 electric motor for conversion.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Some stuff on car didn't work. Like rear window, front door didnt want to lock it . I replaced both modules on front doors , now is all working . In the meentime , I bought black cotton seats and door panels so the car is going to black. Instead leather in very bad condition. I cleaned the sats and now are like new.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

First I wanted to put warp 11 on direct drive. But I change my mine and I will put it on the gearbox. I think motor will last longer and starts won't be with high Amperage. And it is safer with clutch. Car will be about 1.6-1.7 t . 
I'm not sure about that , so I want to hear your opinion. I didn't find controller yet. 
TNX


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I've been driving an electric E39 for over 3 years now. Great car. Use the gearbox. Forget the clutch.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Tnx my friend, yestrday i watched your videos whole day. Im on the wacation and i took the time. So I decided also that way. Do you still have code signal of cranckshaft for arduino? Maybe will works on PFL model on M52 motor. 
Tnx a lot !


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

I purchase another gearbox from 2.8 engine with only 120 000 km , I bought electrical stering pump and get some visual accessories , M sterring wheel . It wont past on PFL models but with some adaptation will fit


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

The wheel is mounted  

Now is this a different car  

I was needing to do some adaptation because wheel is from FL and my car is PFL 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP1yynVGRZw&t=3s










New controller has arrive 

Z1k HV will fit perfectly


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello, I wasn't active for some time because of other obligations , and didn't have money to work on the car. Now is in progress. 
I Bough M fenders and car is going to paintshop in two months. Is really difficult by us to find some good paintshop to paint whole car.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks good!

How did you align motor to gearbox?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

A lot nicer than my milling machine special Makes me want to do another E39.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Tnx guys 

It's a really nice car  . I love it . 

Distance plate is made from three 1 cm plate. First one is on the gearbox and is fixed with two pins which will allign it always in center. Second two plates are bolted fixed on the motor. Between those two parts it has enough room for floating (about 1-2 mm) arround center. 
My friend will make adapter for mounting flywheel on the axes. 
When that will be done, I will put it together and spin motor on 12V to allign all in center, bolting all nuts and welding all three plates together to make one peace . I think this is good metod. 

I wanted to make it without clutch, as Damien recommended, but I changed my mind because of safety reasons and faster shifting. I also fill more comfortable with clutch then without.


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## mons2b (Nov 17, 2015)

mfox said:


> Tnx guys
> 
> It's a really nice car  . I love it .
> 
> ...


I am a fan of everything Damien does and vividly follow all his tube videos but me I like a clutch. It means less shock to the gears which were not ever designed for direct drive and more allowance for a less perfect fit. I think.. I could be wrong. Either way horse for courses as they say.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

mfox said:


> When that will be done, I will put it together and spin motor on 12V to allign all in center, bolting all nuts and welding all three plates together to make one peace . I think this is good metod.


Your aligning technique sounds very much like the one used in this build, post 15: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...7137p2.html?highlight=motor+alignment+problem

Unfortunately, by post 66 they had destroyed a transmission and replaced their adapter plate with a commercial one with well located alignment dowels from CanEV. It's doubtful if this technique is sufficient to provide proper alignment of the electric motor shaft and the transmission input shaft on a consistent basis. The typical maximum shaft axes misalignment limit as listed for most ICE set-ups is 0.005"(~0.13mm). To give some perspective, the thickness of ordinary paper is ~0.004"(0.10mm). 

It seems that it would be very difficult to achieve this degree of alignment with your technique. I know Damian seems to have gotten away with it in his car. Judging by this and some of his electronic antics, he must be living a charmed life.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
I would suggest
Mount the plates on the motor
Mount the flywheel on the motor

Use a mag base and dial gauge to check the positions of the dowel holes in the gearbox adapter - tap your three bits until the dowels are in the right pace relative to the motor spin axis
I would then drill some extra dowel holes to ensure the three plates will always line up - or you can weld them


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

electro wrks said:


> Your aligning technique sounds very much like the one used in this build, post 15: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...7137p2.html?highlight=motor+alignment+problem
> 
> Unfortunately, by post 66 they had destroyed a transmission and replaced their adapter plate with a commercial one with well located alignment dowels from CanEV. It's doubtful if this technique is sufficient to provide proper alignment of the electric motor shaft and the transmission input shaft on a consistent basis. The typical maximum shaft axes misalignment limit as listed for most ICE set-ups is 0.005"(~0.13mm). To give some perspective, the thickness of ordinary paper is ~0.004"(0.10mm).
> 
> It seems that it would be very difficult to achieve this degree of alignment with your technique. I know Damian seems to have gotten away with it in his car. Judging by this and some of his electronic antics, he must be living a charmed life.



No it is not the same method. I forgot to mention , the pin of gearbox axel will bee in the hole of motor axel. I will make slipring (from bronce (Cu )) that will come between an that will also be bearing. That is 100% alligment. the plates will be welded


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

mfox said:


> No it is not the same method. I forgot to mention , the pin of gearbox axel will bee in the hole of motor axel. I will make slipring (from bronce (Cu )) that will come between an that will also be bearing. That is 100% alligment. the plates will be welded


I believe that this is saying that the end of the gearbox shaft will run in a (bronze) pilot bushing in the end of the motor shaft. That's good, although with a clutch this should be a needle bearing, not just a bushing. What will lubricate the bushing?

The pilot bushing will *support* the transmission input shaft (which is good), but it will not create "100% *alignment*", because there is radial play in the unsupported transmission input shaft. If the mounting plate holds the motor and transmission out of alignment, the pilot bushing will hold the transmission input shaft out of alignment.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

mfox said:


> No it is not the same method. I forgot to mention , the pin of gearbox axel will bee in the hole of motor axel. I will make slipring (from bronce (Cu )) that will come between an that will also be bearing. That is 100% alligment. the plates will be welded


By slipring I think you mean a pilot bushing. This alignment technique could possibly work if the transmission input shaft (gearbox axle?) is rigidly supported inside the transmission and the weight of the motor/adapter plate is carefully supported as it is bolted onto the transmission. This support is needed to prevent excess pre-loading of the input shaft bearing(s) inside the transmission. And, the weight might throw off the alignment.

If the input shaft is not rigidly supported inside the transmission and loose like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVFgjupf1n4 , then this alignment technique will not work. The oil clearance in the pilot bushing(or play in a ball or needle type pilot bearing) would allow too much angular displacement of the input shaft even if the weight of the motor/adapter plate is carefully supported as it is bolted on, throwing off the alignment. Check your transmission input shaft to see if it is loose.

I'm still trying to figure out Duncan's alignment technique.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Yes I mean pilot bushing. The gearbox shaft is fix , it doesn't go like this on the video. I understand on what problem you want to point. I will put motor verticaly. Gearbox will be on the motor. Gearbox is much lighter than motor so it wont be any side weight. I will spin motor and try to move gearbox (front bach left right), I will try to get no side resistance, then bolt it strong and weld.
I hope you get the point. With this method is made a lot of EV-s here in Croatia, and t is working after 100 000 km... on some cars. 

This pilot bushing I will lubricate with dence carbon machine lubricant (dontknow proper meaning). This will only spin when I press clutch, so it wont be high RPM-s. I think it will be ok .

I also can't figure Duncan's aligment technique .


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Re Alignment technique

The motor (or engine) has a rigid bearing system - it will not move

So you use that as your reference by mounting the dial gauge onto the motor shaft - if you have a flywheel just use a mag base

The input shaft to the gearbox cannot be used as a reference as it will be "floppy" - it has to be as the two shafts will never be perfectly aligned


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

mfox said:


> The gearbox shaft is fix , it doesn't go like this on the video. I understand on what problem you want to point. I will put motor verticaly. Gearbox will be on the motor. Gearbox is much lighter than motor so it wont be any side weight. I will spin motor and try to move gearbox (front bach left right), I will try to get no side resistance, then bolt it strong and weld.


Good, then the alignment is established by this tweaking to hopefully eliminate side force, then maintained by the adapter plate. This is only workable with a transmission input shaft which is rigidly supported in the transmission, and alignment isn't an automatic result of having a pilot bearing.

I'm a little puzzled by the idea that this input shaft is supported rigidly. It appears that it should be a ZF S5-31 (called a "S5D" by BMW), and from what I can see of online illustrations the input shaft (top shaft on this page, or bottom shaft in this photo) is short, with only a single gear (to transfer drive to the countershaft) and 5th gear synchro on it. That's not like the input shaft of an all-indirect transaxle, which has bearings on each end.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

brian_ said:


> Good, then the alignment is established by this tweaking to hopefully eliminate side force, then maintained by the adapter plate. This is only workable with a transmission input shaft which is rigidly supported in the transmission, and alignment isn't an automatic result of having a pilot bearing.
> 
> I'm a little puzzled by the idea that this input shaft is supported rigidly. It appears that it should be a ZF S5-31 (called a "S5D" by BMW), and from what I can see of online illustrations the input shaft (top shaft on this page, or bottom shaft in this photo) is short, with only a single gear (to transfer drive to the countershaft) and 5th gear synchro on it. That's not like the input shaft of an all-indirect transaxle, which has bearings on each end.



Matija, Brian is being very diplomatic with his concerns about this alignment issue. This issue has raised all kinds of heated arguments on this Forum, right along with the BMS debate. The debate is divided between those of us who believe the original equipment manufacturers(OEM) specifications for the alignment of the engine(ICE) or electric motor(motor) to the transmission should be followed and those who think the alignment is not that critical. Much of the problem comes from the difficulty of setting-up and measuring the alignment when the ICE is replaced by the motor. Very sophisticated and expensive measuring tools are required and used by the OEMs to set up the ICE with the transmission. For most DIYers, these tools are just not available when they attach the motor to the transmission. The alignment method you described with the motor and transmission vertical and rotating the shaft is probably the best that can be done without the sophisticated and expensive tools or a good dose of patience and creativity (that last bits for Duncan). Is it good enough? You say it has worked for your fellow EVers. Unfortunately, I have seen some serious problems come up when this type of alignment technique was used. 

The bottom line for me, working on conversions for other people, is that I have to be able to be to set-up the alignment to the OEM specifications. The problems that might come up if I do otherwise, would be unacceptable. 

Getting back to Brian's concerns. If your transmission is like the one in the drawings, the input shaft is not well supported inside the transmission and most likely will have some movement. You should check it again. Also, you described the input shaft moving front back left right as it was being aligned. A rigidly supported shaft would drop directly into the pilot bearing and probably not move around like that at all.

I wish you the best of luck with this alignment issue in your build. Please understand, some of us come at this issue from a different perspective.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I agree with electro wrks that you need to get the same sort of accuracy as the OEM's

I disagree about the idea that it requires very expensive equipment - you need some basic measuring gear and a bit of time and patience


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Tnx a lot guys, when adapter for flywhell will be done , I will do my best to allign it propertly, it is very important


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

The adapter for flywheel is done , also adapter on the front side for aircondition belt. The job is perfect done, adapter is heated and pressed on the axis of motor shaft. It is 100% alligned. Perfect. Now I need to allign motor to gearbox.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

How much run-out do you have on the face of the flywheel? This is something best tested with a dial indicator (also known as a dial gauge or a clock)

Did you use set(aka grub) screws to hold the flywheel adapter to the motor shaft?


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

I didn't measure it. It should be ok 
Screws are 10.9


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

electro wrks said:


> Did you use set(aka grub) screws to hold the flywheel adapter to the motor shaft?





mfox said:


> Screws are 10.9


That's the grade of the fastener. electro wrks is asking if there are set screws (also called grub screws if headless or "blind") perpendicular to the shaft, tightened down on the shaft to keep the adapter from moving. It looks like there is one on the side nearest the camera, lined up with the keyway.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

electro wrks said:


> Did you use set(aka grub) screws to hold the flywheel adapter to the motor shaft?


No, It fits tight , it is heatet before puting together. 
This one screw is made on the other side of motor for aircondition, because I can move adapter for alligment. 

Today I finaly alligned motor to gearbox. I alligned clutch in center of the motor shaft with allignment tool, but I still had vibrations. Then I bolted with 3 screws and I pressed clutch with some leverage metal , and then it was no vibration. I allinged again , spined the motor and put all screws and nuts. It spins perfectly



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19A17NOBg5k


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Car finaly goes to paintshop


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

Well done!👍👍


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Tnx  

I bought Summer wheels style 66, to me the most beautiful 17" for e39
They were painted, with no scratches.


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

mfox said:


> Tnx
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A fantastic set of wheels Matija! 
I have two questions for you - 
1) What gear do you start the car in and what gear do you drive it in? 
2) Where have you put the 9 Tesla battery packs in the vehicle? 

Thanks!


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

DrGee said:


> A fantastic set of wheels Matija!
> I have two questions for you -
> 1) What gear do you start the car in and what gear do you drive it in?
> 2) Where have you put the 9 Tesla battery packs in the vehicle?
> ...


Hello , 
Tnx, 
I didn't drive it on electric, It's not finished yet. I will see that, Don't know. Maybe 3-4-5- grear ... 
Im planning to put 5 modules front and 4 modules back in bumper. I need to make case.


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

mfox said:


> DrGee said:
> 
> 
> > A fantastic set of wheels Matija!
> ...


Thanks again Matija, 
Very eager to know how it drives. 
Have you considered putting 4 of the tesla modules under the floor? You could use the space left by the petrol tank and the exhaust system.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

DrGee said:


> Have you considered putting 4 of the tesla modules under the floor? You could use the space left by the petrol tank and the exhaust system.


That likely wouldn't work. Like most modern cars, the E39 sedan has a very irregularly-shaped fuel tank; it wraps over the propeller shaft and around the final drive unit. In contrast, the Tesla modules are large and rigid rectangular boxes.


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

brian_ said:


> DrGee said:
> 
> 
> > Have you considered putting 4 of the tesla modules under the floor? You could use the space left by the petrol tank and the exhaust system.
> ...


What a bummer 😒... Or is that Bimmer?..


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

As you maybe know that I made mennekes type 2 for charging on charging stations
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169193

Now I'm making mennekes FEMALE type 2 , by now goes pretty good, and type 2 male that goes on car for charging . OEM type 2 are expencive and those industrial 3 phasis are not so easy to mount. Need to make holder, this one is shorter, so there is not problem with space and it is wery easy to make control for not to ignite the car when is pluged on cabel, wheather has electricity or not . 
I brought 3D printing on a new level . With no cracking on layers so easy as before. So Im able to make female this time


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Count me in for one of these


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Is not a problem  , when will be done , I'll informe you


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Almost done with paintshop, almost new car


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## DrGee (Aug 22, 2018)

mfox said:


> Almost done with paintshop, almost new car


Looks lovely! 👍👍👍


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello , long time I didn't update this thread 
Here are some pics 
Arduino works , tnx to Damien


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

sealed with plastic , not painted










Because of this stupit panic because of corona I bought some reserve so I can work with no problem . Now I can't go out of my yard.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

I opened chanel on youtube. 
I made first introduction video .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIIWEH9c-us


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

happy Easter to all who celebrate, 

I have new video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9vD5hJuDG4


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Happy Easter. Good progress.

Cheers
Tyler


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## jacksdad (Apr 13, 2015)

Really nice work your progress is great.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Tnx guys


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tQDNksWSwc


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

The car is now finished and ready for technical inspection. 
Here is first test drive 



I have little problem with RPM , when I press throttle pedal , more then 10 kw of power RPM goes dow. Zilla has his own RPM sensor wich I mounted on front motor axes. 
I have shilded cable , connect to GND , wire is far away from motor , but signal is still missing at higher current. Controller is sending 12V 2 pulses per revolution to Arduino (devided with optocupler) wich is converting to 58/60 teeth to ECU cranckshaft signal input. Everything else is wrking fine .


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

This is rad. Great dash integration. Love the charge ring.

I had an E39 and it was an absolute cruise missile!


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Car is officially approved by the croatian association for technical inspection and got custom licence plate


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## Tremelune (Dec 8, 2009)

_Huge_ milestone! I start my government nonsense next week...


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Here is new video


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## mons2b (Nov 17, 2015)

mfox said:


>


We are not allowed to mount batteries in front of the forward shock towers in New Zealand. Very frustrating for weight balancing. Oh well


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

There is also solution for that . You make conversion with less battery in back, and then after technical inspection you add more batteries in front. 
It is a bit more work but it is worth. You make box like me and put all in . On annualy inspection noone knows where battery are.


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)

Another video


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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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## mfox (Feb 3, 2013)




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