# Audi A2 2004 conversion



## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

I have finally decided on donor car and bought a 2004 Audi A2. It has a 1.4l petrol engine and a five speed transmission. Check out the garage at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/408 and the build blog at http://ev-a2.blogspot.com.
Here is an image of the car.








Nothing much has happened yet and my first move will be to convert the brakes to larger discs in the front, from drums to discs in the rear, and a larger main cylinder. This is only to circumvent the stiff Swedish regulations for converting newer (> 1993) cars. However it has some good sides to it in that the EMC regulations become looser when you change alot on the car . Anyway, since it is a VAG car I'm gaming on that VW Golf IV parts will fit.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

The blog (http://ev-a2.blogspot.com) is now updated with some pictures of the A2 and ideas for battery box placement.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

looks like a great candidate.... why do you HAVE to change the brakes? I would really hesitate to mess with brakes of all things.  If you go with a reasonable Lithium pack, you will finish pretty much at stock weight, no real need to beef up brakes much.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> looks like a great candidate.... why do you HAVE to change the brakes? I would really hesitate to mess with brakes of all things.  If you go with a reasonable Lithium pack, you will finish pretty much at stock weight, no real need to beef up brakes much.


Because the law is weird.



> This is only to circumvent the stiff Swedish regulations for converting newer (> 1993) cars. However it has some good sides to it in that the EMC regulations become looser when you change alot on the car .


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

dtbaker said:


> looks like a great candidate.... why do you HAVE to change the brakes? I would really hesitate to mess with brakes of all things.  If you go with a reasonable Lithium pack, you will finish pretty much at stock weight, no real need to beef up brakes much.


I totally agree. I would rather not mess with the brakes. My alternative (described below) is to use a car older than 1993 which I dont want to.

I'll try to explain the Swedish regulations for converting cars (as I understand them).
If you convert an older car (< 1993) everything is pretty easy. But, if you convert a car newer than 1993 things get messy. Basicly the are two categories of converted cars, "changed vehicle" (ändrat fordon in Swedish) and "rebuilt vehicle" (ombyggd fordon). A changed vehicle implies less changes and a rebuilt vehicle implies more changes done to the car.
For a car newer than 1993, if you only change the engine (which an electric conversion is) you need the car manufacturers certificate that the new engine is OK to put into the car. That means getting VAG to certify that the electric motor I have put in is OK for the A2. This they will never do! And this closes the path to have a newer car classed as a changed vehicle. You have to go the other path, making it a rebuilt vehicle.
In order for a conversion to be categorized as rebuilt vehicle at least two out of three major components of the car have to be changed. The major components are 1) engine and drive train, 2) brake system, 3) steering. And since the brakes are easier to change than the steering this is the way most car converters in Sweden do it.
To summarize. I you want to convert a car to electric in Sweden, either use a car older than 1993 or also change the brakes or steering.
The good thing about this is that the certification procedure actually is easier for a rebuilt vehicle than for a changed vehicle. There is an organzation called The National Swedish Vehicle Builders Organisation (Svenska Fordonsbyggares RiksOrganisation, SFRO) who perform a pre-approval of the car and the official certification agencies basicly only check that SFRO have performed the steps they need to do and then issue a new certification. Another good thing is that there are no EMC requirements for rebuilt vehicles, only recommendations (Note: this is not 100% confirmed yet). 
So, some things get easier, while some things gets harder when converting newer cars in Sweden.
i guess most people would agree that this is a crazy. The cars will not get any safer for amateurs are changing important safety systems, like the brakes. Personally, I believe this is a huge limiter on the DIY electric conversions. There is an ongoing discussion about easying the regulations for converting vehicles to electric, but, SFRO representatives do not think that will happen in near time.
DISCLAIMER, This is the way I understand the Swedish regulations. It is not an official statement!


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Peter - A2: 0-1*

The first try to convert the front brakes to larger rotors failed .
Read about it on the blog http://ev-a2.blogspot.com.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Yet another dust bite*

Round two of brake conversion lost.
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com
I am now down to plan D!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

*Re: Yet another dust bite*

Brakes suck! My 'easy' VW disc upgrade had me out of commission for a month or two.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Re: Yet another dust bite*



Ziggythewiz said:


> Brakes suck! My 'easy' VW disc upgrade had me out of commission for a month or two.


No they suck a little bit less!
I managed to fit spindles from a Skoda Fabia on the A2. Front brakes are on their way!
http://ev-a2.blogspot,com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Re: Yet another dust bite*

Brakes are working!
I finally got the brakes together and everything seems to work fine. Even the ABS and ESP. 
http://ev-a2.blogspot,com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Project on the move again*

It's been awfully quite from this project for quite a while.
Well, I have ordered parts and some are starting to arrive now. Also the remaining design decisions are getting fewer and fewer.
Check out the blog at http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*CAN Bus Analysis started*

I started to analyse the drive train CAN Bus today and got the analysis tool working (an Arduino which CAN Bus shield).
Check it out at:
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

I received a vacuum pump and sensor from an Audi A4 which I tested today. Seems promising.
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

The vacuum pump, vacuum sensor, an Arduino micro processor and an old Sigg bottle from a kerosene outdoor stove now comprises a brake booster!
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi there, great blog! That pump is fairly quiet, considering you ran it outside and on top of a wooden surface. I was surprised to see how quickly it went from 600 to 800 mbars. Is that the expected hysteresis during normal braking operation? Even if it's a wider range, the pump seems quick enough to just be active for a few seconds.

I can't wait until the days when EV parts are available so we can pick an all-electric brake system and skip the vacuum pumps altogether.

JR


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

Thanks JR!

Yea, I think the noice will be bearable when I suspend the pump in its rubber bushings. The 600-800 mbar is the planned hysteresis and the pump seems to cover that in a just a couple of seconds with the 1 litre reservoir.

I agree with you and think it is amazing that todays ICE cars still use vacuum powered brake boosters instead of electrical.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Adapter and batteries*

Got delivery of 68 CALB100FI from evpower.eu and an adapter plate from Rebbl. The cells have varying resting voltage. Is that normal? Check out the blog at http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

*Re: Adapter and batteries*



spoland said:


> Got delivery of 68 CALB100FI from evpower.eu and an adapter plate from Rebbl. The cells have varying resting voltage. Is that normal? Check out the blog at http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


Some cells are either shipped at a lower SOC or need a few cycles before they stabilize.

My guess is the former, a few cells are undercharged before shipping.

Stick a label on them, and see how they go with a few cycles on them and then again later on.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Re: Adapter and batteries*



drgrieve said:


> Some cells are either shipped at a lower SOC or need a few cycles before they stabilize.
> 
> My guess is the former, a few cells are undercharged before shipping.
> 
> Stick a label on them, and see how they go with a few cycles on them and then again later on.


Will try that.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Battery balancing*

After receiving the CALB cells and a Powerlab 8 battery workstation I have started to bottom balance the cells by discharging them to 2,75V. Read about in the blog http://ev-a2.blogspot.com.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

After a week of holidays on Sicily I'm back with the conversion. Teardown has started and I have managed to discharge 52 out of 68 cells. Only 16 to go. 
Check out the blog at http://ev-a2.blogspot.com.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*ICE is out!*

After two days of detaching cables, hoses, tubes, linings, wires and more the ICE is finally out!
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*First integration test failed*

The flywheel and transmission from the stock gas engine dit not fit the transmission so I will have to get the unbalanced flywheel from the diesel engine balanced. I finished discharging of all 68 CALB cells.
Check it out at ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Motor and transmission mated*

The third attempt to mate the motor and transmission succeeded!
The next step will be to install the motor/transmission assembly in the car and make a motor mount. I hope I'll get the new transmission mounts and drive shafts tomorrow.
ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

The motor is in!
I fabricated a motor mount in 40x40x4mm angle steel and got the motor and transmission into the car. Still waiting for the drive shafts.
ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## Pawiel (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm impressed.
You have chosen great donor-car, made awesome modification and all looks great.
Congratulation.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

Pawiel said:


> I'm impressed.
> You have chosen great donor-car, made awesome modification and all looks great.
> Congratulation.


Thanks Pawiel!


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## Pawiel (Sep 15, 2013)

spoland said:


> Thanks Pawiel!


i know, thar there is a lot of info on your blog , but I haven't remembered everything.
tell me, if yiu know it, how many kilos weight a2 after removing everything what is not useful for ev (motor, cooling, tank, etc.)?
i'm thinking also about converting a2 for ev. you know, not heavy, alu-no corrosion...

greetings from Poland


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*The project is still on!*

It'e been a long busy winter doing everything else but EV conversions. But this summer I got back to the project and things are doing well since.

Check out the posts on this summers work on ACC integration, battery boxes, parking brake and what I am working on now.
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com

Pawiel, sorry to reply so late. I estimate the weight of the car will be approx 100 kg more after the conversion. it would be great if you would pursue an A2 conversion and I would do my best to assist you!


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Front battery box*

The front battery box and the front connection box is getting there. It is challange to make everyhing fit in the small engine compartment of the A2. Check i out on http://ev-a2.blogspot.com


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*DC/DC and more cables*

This weekend I mounted the DC/DC to the front battery box and connected it to the rest of the world. Check out the blog at http://ev-a2.blogspot.com.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Supposedly it is really difficult to get a homebuilt EV approved in Sweden; do let us know how the process goes when you get to that point.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

I agree, it is difficult.
I hope I have passed the greatest hurdles though, when I also changed the transmission and the brakes.
I sure will tell you about the approval (or disapproval) when I get there.


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*Mounting of heater, vacuum, charger*

The A2 conversion continues with mounting of the charger, heater and vacuum pump.
As you can read in the blog I am having second thoughts about the heater which is made from a steel tube which I fear will rust. What was I thinking about bringing steel to an aluminum car? .
I also got comments on a Swedish forum about placing the Meanwell DC/DC, which is more or less unprotected, in the engine compartment. It might lead to connection between the traction voltage and the chassis in heavy rain or humid conditions, says the commenter.
Anyone have a suggestion to how to handle this? Should I try to fit it in a watertight box or is it a dead end to use an unprotected DC/DC in the engine compartment? The Meanwell has a rather powerful (at least it is noicy) fan which i guess has to be replaced by a heat sink if it is placed in a sealed box.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

I used 1500W Meanwell power supply which is a bit overkill but it allowed me to change fan for less noisy one and mount it inside cabin. Calculated momentary peak demand from DCDC is at ~70A with all loads switched on so it still under 1kW or 66% nominal of this supply. 80A fuse acts as last line of defence and doesn't allow to overheat the brick.


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## steelneck (Apr 19, 2013)

*Re: Mounting of heater, vacuum, charger*



spoland said:


> As you can read in the blog I am having second thoughts about the heater which is made from a steel tube which I fear will rust. What was I thinking about bringing steel to an aluminum car? .


I would not worry. Once you get it filled, no air, it will not rust. Just think of water pipes in houses made of steel, they hold for 50 years or more, and above that, normal anti freeze contains a lot of anti rust. Or think of some old car, with iron engine block. I would be more worried of rust on the outside and even more worried about how much energy that is lost if you do not insulate it.



spoland said:


> I also got comments on a Swedish forum about placing the Meanwell DC/DC, which is more or less unprotected, in the engine compartment.


Think like this. Anything under the hood should be able to take a +90C high pressure wash and minutes after that drive out in freezing cold -30C. Or just think of the case when driving behind a semi on the freeway some winter day in -2C, a wet road with lots of salt. Or think of a dusty gravel road a summer day, some of that dust is magnetic, and conducting electricity..


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## spoland (Aug 9, 2012)

*The project is on again - battery boxes mounted*

When I first visited this forum and I read the build threads that kept on for years I wondered, how can they do this for so long, why don't they just complete their projects?

Well, here I am almost three years after my first post and two years after the conversion started for real...

Anyway, the project is now on again and I have time this sumer to finalize it.

This week I have mounted the rear battery boxes. Check out the blog.


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