# Introducing: the DAF EV33 from Holland



## alvin (Jul 26, 2008)

Welcome. That looks very nice. I would like to see an AC Elmo. 
Good luck with the RDW.

Alvin


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

That's a great project thanks for sharing such a unique build.


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

Great little car you have there, Andre.
Next week (april 22nd) DAF club Holland shows a model 66-EV, converted by University of Ostfalia (Braunschweig) in Geldrop (NL). 
I want to go there; hope to meet you there.
--paul--


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Hi Paul

yep i know, was finishing my build when the news from the German EV colleagues came (they have used the same kit by the way, of course with larger capacity). Well at least i am the first in holland and with a daf 33..

can't come to Geldrop, too far away sorry.


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## oudevolvo (Mar 10, 2015)

Wow, nice project and quite short turnaround time.
Have you already been to Lelystad and are you awaiting your updated papers? Or do you still need to go to the inspection?


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Hi there

The application has still to be sent out, i'm now finetuning the last details in the electric diagram for the RDW. I understood from the experienced builders that the complete paperchange will take several weeks (there's only one location specialised in EV testing and they do all other home built vehicles too). So hopefully i can get to the road (legally) this summer.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

That's a very cute car and a great project, especially with the history thrown in. This is the only sort of car worth converting now, since the option to just buy a commuter EV is pretty straightforward now.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Very neat conversion to a classic vehicle.
Im sure you have checked, and i note the power draw flat out, but are you certain your max speed is not motor rpm limited ?


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Hi again, thanx for the support 
Yup the supplier even fine tuned the motor field parameters (by laptop connection) during driving flat out until the max was found. Then we got it up from 82 to 85 km/h  that's all there is.
On the plus side, you can still move 3 adults and some luggage around. And for my usual drive it is sufficient. In city traffic the little dafs were always among the quickest thanks to the CVT (you can't switch gear that fast unless you are some kind of racing trained driver), but now on electrons its even quicker. Real fun!


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## fotajoye (Nov 28, 2011)

Moltenmetal said:


> That's a very cute car and a great project, especially with the history thrown in. This is the only sort of car worth converting now, since the option to just buy a commuter EV is pretty straightforward now.


 Right you are; used Leafs,suitable for commuting, are available for around $7K, some with fully functioning batteries. Even if you add a replacement new battery for $6k,$13k for a complete car ready to go has to make you think about a DIY EV project.


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Just came back from the national individual compliance test (took the whole day incl travel with trailer).

it has been APPROVED !!! 2 more weeks waiting for the paperwork and then i can finally start using it and go on fine tuning for max range.

One more EV on the road, recycling an existing car without building a whole new one. isn't that just great?


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## oudevolvo (Mar 10, 2015)

Congratulations!
Any surprises during the test?
Was it first time right?


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

yup no comments from the tester he even quite liked it since he used to be a daffer himself in the olden days (when all of us were younger).

There was even a nice unexpected twist: since it is just 48V it did not have to be tested according to the very strict regulations for high tension protection. so only all the buttons lights and interlocks were checked, the weight and the braking. one hour of relatively stress free RDW work, thats something new 

i just cant wait to run it to work, alas the summer will be over by then...

(by the way they were also in the process of type testing a tesla model 3, carefully shielded by a grey cover, cameras were strictly forbidden but you cant erase my own memory ;-) )


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Well done- be prepared to have a sore face from the EV grin!


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

fotajoye: indeed, you can buy a used Gen 1 Leaf in California for less than it cost me for just my battery pack...


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

not so in europe, still the cheapest way for us to convert a IC car. and that aside, its a hobby or even a sport to do this (what is this forum called again? - right!).


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Oh dear, i've made it to the national dutch evening TV news with this project...here's the webversion:

https://nos.nl/artikel/2200295-daf-liefhebber-bouwt-oldtimer-om-tot-elektrische-auto.html

I've been told >200k views, 6.5k likes and 2k reactions on NOS FB (which i dont want to be on so i'll have to take their word for it).
Must be because of the combination of our dutch heritage car and the new technology.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Well done gromsound. Excellent results with the news coverage.

Can you share some pictures of your car's drive train and installation please?

Thank you

Cheers

Tyler


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Hi & thanx!

You can find the complete building story on my website (in dutch but the pics are in esperanto)

http://gromsound.mfbfreaks.com/33e/33e.htm

I used the EU-EMC certified stuff from this supplier

www.he-cars.com

You'll find all info about the original variomatic drive on the UK daf owners club website

http://www.dafownersclub.co.uk/

Enjoy!


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## Eric (Sep 9, 2012)

Congratulations. The 48v is interesting. You can have your car tested on 48v and than later add some more voltage to it.
Where in the netherlands are you located? Id love to have a chat sometimes and get some more info on the rdw regulations.


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

thanx!

Hmm i'm not sure whether that stepwise voltage increase is such a good idea... if that catches on the honest 48V builders will probably be also fully tested again. And i think you will be in trouble in case of an accident when they find out... APK will probably not look at it unless the RDW changes the instructions due to these developments...

I'm in Haaksbergen Twente. You can send me a PM if you like. You may also discuss these things with the license holder Heijnsdijk Cars who has the most experience with the RDW test. www.he-cars.com and he is based close to Rotterdam.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

Hi,
nice Daf, a nice electric Dutch oldtimer.
a few years ago I also had a plan to convert a car. However, I stopped because I could not predict the costs of the RDW . The RDW had just switched to new European regulations and seem to not understand something about it...

My question therefore is related to the RDW. I am very curious about how things have gone at the RDW? and curious to the total costs of approval ? especially EMC


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

Good evening,

You will find everything you ask on my website (in dutch so you can read it)
http://gromsound.mfbfreaks.com/33e/33e.htm

RDW doesnt test EMC itself, only redirects to a lab for that. Cost around 10k so only interesting for the suppliers of the kit.
RDW individual compliance test of the car -built using a EMC type approved kit- including some limited electrical insulation testing is ca 800 euro. My car was cheaper to test since it is just 48V which qualifies as low tension, cost was ca 675 euro.

any more info? just send me a PM through this forum.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> Hi,
> nice Daf, a nice electric Dutch oldtimer.
> a few years ago I also had a plan to convert a car. However, I stopped because I could not predict the costs of the RDW . The RDW had just switched to new European regulations and seem to not understand something about it...
> 
> My question therefore is related to the RDW. I am very curious about how things have gone at the RDW? and curious to the total costs of approval ? especially EMC


You can also contact Anne from NewElectric, if you want to use a Siemens motor for it...


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

ahh. i contacted new electric .. he wants to buy my components and sell his own from the same make and brands.. I think Siemens is german, and not dutch. the motor is used in several models from different manufactures. there must be approval already. Also the azure dynamics assembling plant was in the UK also there were cars approved already. I guess. its the same way as new electric does.. but with his own conversion.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

nice Blog.. .. I like it how you got trough the RDW approval.. did not know about it. thx for the idea!!


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> ahh. i contacted new electric .. he wants to buy my components and sell his own from the same make and brands.. I think Siemens is german, and not dutch. the motor is used in several models from different manufactures. there must be approval already. Also the azure dynamics assembling plant was in the UK also there were cars approved already. I guess. its the same way as new electric does.. but with his own conversion.


I agree it should be much easier, but NewElectric took up the battle, invested a lot of money and got it done...not unfair to try and earn back a bit of this money me thinks...
As for how much money it has costed: no idea...

I really like the low voltage option giving less hassle...

And wonder if a group effort to get a Nissan Leaf or Tesla drivetrain approved for europe for DIY would be possible...


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

I would advise anybody in Holland to contact Vincent Heijnsdijk from www.he-cars.com He knows everything about type approving components and kits from his own experience with the RDW. Again, he has invested 2 years of his life and many dollari to get the kit that i used EU approved so it is logical indeed that he has to earn that investment back in some way.

The advantage for us is that constructing a car using this kit is garantueed to lead to an approved vehicle. By the way, other Dutch suppliers of conversion kits just buy the same thing (built in Germany) and put their company stickers on it. Heijnsdijk is the original engineer who got it approved together with those Germans.

Selling the pre-2011 parts and starting again seems the only option to get a street legal EV... complaints can be sent to the european committee i guess.

You might be able to use your existing parts for a boat or something similar, no RDW regulations there since the W stands for WEGverkeer (ROAD traffic). Heijnsdijk also builds boats maybe he can trade your stuff in.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

gromsound said:


> I would advise anybody in Holland to contact Vincent Heijnsdijk from www.he-cars.com He knows everything about type approving components and kits from his own experience with the RDW. Again, he has invested 2 years of his life and many dollari to get the kit that i used EU approved so it is logical indeed that he has to earn that investment back in some way.
> 
> The advantage for us is that constructing a car using this kit is garantueed to lead to an approved vehicle. By the way, other Dutch suppliers of conversion kits just buy the same thing (built in Germany) and put their company stickers on it. Heijnsdijk is the original engineer who got it approved together with those Germans.
> 
> ...




RDW just follows what the government tells them todo. they are not an authority. And the government, Rutte.. with his Indonesian dominance and neoliberal laughter politics. applies European rules and regulations into the dutch law.. The European union is responsible for these new regulations implemented in 2011. Since the Netherlands is a member of the European Union. they have to apply the rules.. No matter what. If another member of the European union approved products in the market, it is not necessary and forbidden to re-approve this products without informing the authority that already approved them. The Netherlands (RDW) can approve the Tesla Model 3 for example.. The Siemens motor is German.. and the Azure dynamics DMOC 645 is approved by the Britons .

Btw.. what about the low 48 voltage system? no EMC is required?


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> The Siemens motor is German.. and the DMOC 645 is approved by the Britons .


That won't help you in The Netherlands because RDW require the drivetrain package to be tested and certified and obviously AZD cannot give you valid certificates because they are no longer in business.

I'd recommend following the advice others have given to use Anne or Heijnsdijk pre-approved products... if Anne is prepared to buy your 'old' parts it seems like a no brainer to me


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> That won't help you in The Netherlands because RDW require the drivetrain package to be tested and certified and obviously AZD cannot give you valid certificates because they are no longer in business.
> 
> I'd recommend following the advice others have given to use Anne or Heijnsdijk pre-approved products... if Anne is prepared to buy your 'old' parts it seems like a no brainer to me




Those are not old parts.. those are the same parts!!!. its like carrying the same weight back and forth. its ridiculous and difficult so why not sell the lease of the EMC certificate only? Its like taking control over.. by government regulations.. I know its trade.. but I am on a budget and DIY. like this forum. anyway.. its not about the drive train. its about the EMC. and finding a way out of this expensive costs of converting your car... because Why can I check my emissions on a diesel or a petrol car on a budget? And not test my EMC at RDW? How to test.how to do this most economically is the question.. when my car is build similar to the ford transit electric connect or the Mercdes vito ford ranger or whatever car that contains this components it must be similar to what Anne does . Other wise that way is not an option. I really wonder.. RDW is not the only organization that approves cars. I will go the European union if necessary.. I want to find a way out of this unfair abuse of my money. Its typical for this hothead half Indonesian president of the Netherlands. abuse people.. together with his blond female slave.. that had authority over the RDW before.. This president that implemented this EU law. made it difficult he destroys companies like Rebbl New electric etc. He is only after the big money from Daimler GM Volkswagen etc. and has lack on people that have to pay for it. He is one big hell of a propaganda. to get votes from people that has nothing to do with his policies.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> Those are not old parts.. those are the same parts!!!.


I know Anne buys motors direct from Siemens and HPEVS and has invested heavily in CE testing and certification for these and the various inverter options that they offer. In my experience EMC certificates are usually pretty restrictive on build standards and firmware versions and that may be a factor here.

You're going to spend money getting your vehicle approved in The Netherlands, you just have to choose where to spend it... I would recommend you take up Anne's kind offer to buy your old parts and then invest in a certified and supported drivetrain and move on.



elektrischeauto777 said:


> This president that implemented this EU law. made it difficult he destroys companies like Rebbl New electric etc.


Last time I was at New Electric they were booming... like most of us in manufacturing, I think they see certification as a cost of doing business


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

If new electric is booming why did Rebbl quit? BTW azure dynamics a large converter which had a joint-venture with ford automotive industry is also gone. and that's where the parts are coming from. those are high quality components used by ford. that are build by german engineers. as you know the german cars are the most fine engineered cars in the world their automotive industry is dominating in Europe. Which is for the same reason also the problem in europe for the production of electric cars. they simply do not want electric cars. because it will bankrupt half of their intermediate good industry and can cause a large unemployment in Germany. 

the control of the government is like this.. big car manufactures like tesla, vw, nissan, toyota, GM, daimler,PSA, ford can afford todo the EMC certification. electric cars are barely simple to build so its a way to protect their market share and leave people on this forum including you out of it. Why the government does not support their citizen or small medium sized companies with a subsidiary fee? or why does the government not approve EMC themselfes. The EMC regulations are all in directives of the European union. Because they Rutte and co(president of the netherlands) get the jobs and the money from the large banks and multinationals. Listen we life in a neoliberal society. where small people get less power in society. The only reason why Britain is now on the edge of an implosion after leaving the the EU. Do you really think there is something left from the great empire before? its an illusion... its a small island without any influence on the rest of the world ruled and governed by the city of London and the multinationals that will leave to the European mainland now.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

If you don't want to jump through the hoops in The Netherlands then why not try Ireland or Croatia which I understand forgo the EMC testing requirements?


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

I feel really bad about this conversation.. I am honest with people. and I expect people on a forum like this to be honest too. I am really sorry to register on this forum now.. I understand small business companies want to earn money too. but don't do fuck me up!! , because you need to be really clever and have billions to join that family on top of society. I think you people are still part of most on this forum. and I am just one of the few that has a AZD kit. why not help us out ? are there so many with AZD parts surrendering here in europe? I dont think so..


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> and that's where the parts are coming from


While you are correct the early Siemens motors came from the AZD auction that took place 5 years ago (here), today Anne is able to offer EMC certificated motors direct from Siemens (and HPEVS).

Several forum members from The Netherlands have given you advise... obviously you are free to ignore those people and spend your money however you wish. Good luck!


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> I understand small business companies want to earn money too. but don't do fuck me up!!


I know nothing about the particulars of your discussions with Anne but in my experience very few companies in the world would offer to exchange old parts from a third party for new parts with certificates and warranty


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

dutch people are similar to British. they are also mad and deluded.. But I love this DAF 33.. I thought he found the way with this 48 volt. but unfortunately he is not. he showed the RDW also an EMC certificate but he is going.


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## oudevolvo (Mar 10, 2015)

We're quite off topic from "Introducing: the DAF EV33 from Holland", perhaps a moderator can split the messages about EMC / Siemens / Azure / RDW into a different topic?

But since I'm a DIY based in The Netherlands too I thought to throw in my 2 cents as well. While exploring my project I was considering 3 options:
1) Buying a (relatively cheap) AZD Siemens+DMOC from someone who decided not to start a project with it.
2) Buying a kit at Vincent Heijnsdijk of HE-Cars
3) Buying a kit at New Electric
I wanted a high-end setup and liked the idea of the power of the Siemens motor so option 1 and 3 remained.
In the end I have chosen option 3 and I am glad I did.
Yes, it's more expensive than option 1, but I see it as money I pay for insurance and knowledge/support. Kind of insurance premium to get it registered. Indeed the regulations in The Netherlands are quite strict. I'd rather pay more money now and increase my chances of getting it approved than going for a cheaper route with more uncertainty to ever get it registered while still spending a lot of money on parts and invest a lot of time. But as Kevin says, everyone is free to make it's own decisions and chose it's own route. Perhaps (and even probably) a conversion can be done on a smaller budget with some creativity in finding approval internationally but that does not mean that Anne is providing unfair proposals.

EMC certification is not just a piece of paper that comes with a motor and controller. It's also about how you implement it. With the Siemens+DMOC that did indeed pass the test at TUV Rheinland it is also possible to build a setup that will fail. The signature of Anne / New Electric on the certification therefore not only means that you have a motor and controller that can pass the EMC test, but also that you have implemented it in such way that the setup is implemented in a proper way. So this check/support from their end is also what you are paying for.

If you are confident that you can do that yourself first time right and are sure about how to build the car and prepare it for inspection then probably just buy parts, build and do an EMC test yourself is a possibility.
I believe Steven did this with his BMW Z3

And I agree that European regulations (influenced by the big car makers) are not making life easier for us as DIY-ers. But that's not Anne's fault, I think he's one of the people that is making it possible to convert cars.

If R100 rev. 2 kicks in and is fully implemented and rev. 1 is phased out we're gone.


> Requirements of a Rechargeable Energy Storage System (REESS) with regard to its safety
> 6.1. General
> The procedures prescribed in Annex 8 of this Regulation shall be applied.


And Annex 8 is about torturing the battery enclosure


> The tested-device shall be crushed between a resistance and a crush plate as described in Figure 1 with a force of at least 100 kN, but not exceeding 105 kN


And a barbecue test


> The tested-device shall be exposed to the flame from the freely burning fuel for 70 seconds.


And this BBQ test is with battery cells in the enclosure (so consider those gone).
And much more that one piece converters cannot meet.

But let's hope it does not get that far and convert and register as many cars as we can, all choosing our own approach and learn from each other.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I know nothing about the particulars of your discussions with Anne but in my experience very few companies in the world would offer to exchange old parts from a third party for new parts with certificates and warranty


yes there are no weeds... on this story


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

oudevolvo said:


> We're quite off topic from "Introducing: the DAF EV33 from Holland", perhaps a moderator can split the messages about EMC / Siemens / Azure / RDW into a different topic?
> 
> But since I'm a DIY based in The Netherlands too I thought to throw in my 2 cents as well. While exploring my project I was considering 3 options:
> 1) Buying a (relatively cheap) AZD Siemens+DMOC from someone who decided not to start a project with it.
> ...



This is also not a true story in dutch " not to trust for 2 cents" . you had a choice for 1,) Rebbl!!!! (that approved together with the Number 2,) New electric (the AZD DMOC 645 @Tuv Rheinland with the controller and motor at ECE regulations nr. 10 EMC only).. (this was to share the costs of EMC approval )And yes the 3rd choice.. was Heijnsdijk Electric Cars ..

Further the parameters and the VCU are from EVTV in the USA. AZD firmware is uploaded with can-bus or the kvaser dongle. The electrical cables and electrical hazard security of the car is according the regulations ECE r100. There is no miracle concept here!. its mixture of EC regulations.. Nothing more noting less. I do not need that since my car will be approved by the RDW on these regulations. I only! wanted a lease of the EMC certification under the ECE r10 over two components AZD DMOC 645 and the Siemens motor. and not exchange my parts back and fort for the same parts and a lose more money for 3 months or more warranty.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

oudevolvo said:


> We're quite off topic from "Introducing: the DAF EV33 from Holland", perhaps a moderator can split the messages about EMC / Siemens / Azure / RDW into a different topic?
> 
> But since I'm a DIY based in The Netherlands too I thought to throw in my 2 cents as well. While exploring my project I was considering 3 options:
> 1) Buying a (relatively cheap) AZD Siemens+DMOC from someone who decided not to start a project with it.
> ...



this is also not a true story in dutch " not to trust for 2 cents" . you had a choice for 1 Rebbl!!!! that approved together with Number 2 New electric the AZD DMOC 645 @Tuv Rheinland with the controller and motor at ECE regulations nr. 10 only.. this was to share the costs of EMC approval and the 3rd choice.. Heijnsdijk Electric Cars ..

the parameters and the ECU are from EVTV in the USA. AZD firmware is uploaded with can-bus or the kvaser dongle.. The electric cables and electrical security are according the regulations of European union r100. There is no miracle concept here. its mixture of EC regulations.. nothing more noting less. I do not need that since it will be approved by the RDW for r100 I wanted to lease from the EMC certification under the ECE R10 over only the two components AZD DMOC 645 and the Siemens motor. and not exchange my parts back and fort for the same parts for more money


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> the parameters and the ECU are from EVTV in the USA.


Six different versions of GEVCU exist and in my experience getting the Siemens/AZD to work on the bench was a challenge... thankfully one of the developers (Celso Menaia) works for New Electric 

Shall we stop 'polluting' this thread and focus on the beautiful DAF now?


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## oudevolvo (Mar 10, 2015)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> This is also not a true story in dutch " not to trust for 2 cents" . you had a choice for 1,) Rebbl!!!! (that approved together with the Number 2,) New electric (the AZD DMOC 645 @Tuv Rheinland with the controller and motor at ECE regulations nr. 10 EMC only).. (this was to share the costs of EMC approval )And yes the 3rd choice.. was Heijnsdijk Electric Cars ..


Well, after discussing my project Rebbl offered me the Warp 9" motor or alternatively the HPEV AC 51.
When I said I preferred AC and wanted to use a Siemens 1PV5135 from AZD I never heard back from them. Perhaps by then they were already phasing out their activities??
But yes, you are right, I knew they held the certification as well and I could have insisted and could have pinged for a response and could have chosen them.


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## gromsound (Apr 15, 2017)

_''Btw.. what about the low 48 voltage system? no EMC is required?''_

Yes it is. The 48V is just limiting the other safety tests that the RDW performs at the inspection day. Normally they take 4hrs min to measure the insulation values between different parts and connections. Since 48V is (acc. VCA) no high tension these were skipped in my case. Then the remaining inspection points (switches buzzer lights interlocks etc) were done within the hour. But it saves only 200 euro, negligable on the total cost.

The RDW is well known here for NOT accepting other european certificates (like 2CV non-citroen supplied replacement chassis) and have been FORCED to do so by angry consumers who complained at the euro committee in the past. But that is such a long weary road that it is only interesting for business people...
Otherwise you could have the EMC for instance tested in Germany at TUV which is much cheaper than the lab that is accredited by the RDW.
They cant do that themselves due to very special instrumentation and lab rooms, look at HE-cars at the film about the EMC testing of the smart:

https://youtu.be/KzwoIWLHaKI

You cant turn the clock back to pre 2011, were stuck with that legislation and if you want to make your own EV for public road use its the only way to go.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

gromsound said:


> _''Btw.. what about the low 48 voltage system? no EMC is required?''_
> 
> Yes it is. The 48V is just limiting the other safety tests that the RDW performs at the inspection day. Normally they take 4hrs min to measure the insulation values between different parts and connections. Since 48V is (acc. VCA) no high tension these were skipped in my case. Then the remaining inspection points (switches buzzer lights interlocks etc) were done within the hour. But it saves only 200 euro, negligable on the total cost.
> 
> ...



I understand the goal of the European Union after reading a rev of the R100 I realized its about the finger proof( this 48volt), electrical shocks.
But I wonder if the dutch authorities applied the law the right way?. An electric car is a very easy concept!. I mean we are using electric motors everywhere in life its not new and less complicated as an ICengine.. I can also bring my welding machine to the RDW and ask for an approval .. are they so difficult on IGBTs in these machines? or what about solar inverters? windmills, microwaves, or high voltagetransformers all around.. Are they really sure about what they are doing? I mean we are talking about the times of Nikola Tesla and Edison two centuries ago. There will be always people that rebuild their own cars by simply using another motor in an already existing vehicle!!The problem is that RDW sees it always as a new vehicle!! I am not a constructor..I cannot make new vehicles here, maybe with carbon-fiber.but no steel or aluminum. Most conversion are from production lines of DAF Volvo, VW, Citroen earlier last century. I think authorities have no idea about cars.. And aslo I do not have more money to reinvest again into the drivetrain parts. otherwise I would not bought already like that. And sure I will ask for prices at Tuev Rheinland or whatever.. RDW cannot demand things like that, they are not an authority. a European certificate has the same value everywhere EU.I mean on basis from what was that denial ? there are ford transits connects that got approval already Those cars use the same firmware as the kit from new electric. Nobody really has different variant as far as I know. Its all EVTV who collected most of the things from azure dynamics..


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> Nobody really has different variant as far as I know.


Multiple DMOC firmware versions exist... if you look at the evtv forums you'll find some discussion about firmware updates (see here for example).

Indeed, iirc Jack has said that EVTV would not support DMOC's unless they sold them because it's a support nightmare.



elektrischeauto777 said:


> Its all EVTV who collected most of the things from azure dynamics..


A significant proportion of the AZD property was sold at the UK auction and I've seen warehouses full of parts which ended up in EU locations not the EVTV warehouse. If you purchased your parts in Europe then they probably came from the UK auction.


I think you have two choices if you want to approve an EV in The Netherlands; sell your Siemens/DMOC to New Electric and buy a new set with certificates/warranty, or pay to have the testing and certification undertaken yourself.

Obviously if you are unhappy with these options then you could sell your parts (both Damien and I have recently sold Siemens motors in Europe) and then buy a drivetrain that you know has the relevant certificates.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

For sure I have an American controller. the UK parts offered by a reseller were too expensive. I was not at the AZD auction also. I just have 1 siemens motor with 1 controller. And I want to use them in a new to convert car. I mean I do not earn money with Youtube. I do not own a electric converting company. and I am not a reseller.. I am man who wants to convert an ICE car.


I do not understand what you have with new electric?? I think this is not a commercial platform. This is a DIY forum If I would see that as a financial option I would have exchanged the parts already one year ago. to be clear again.. I will not do that no question about it.. and I am destined to find another way for it.. I am only doing my story about it because i find it a strange offer from the new electric company. I do not understand why I could not jus buy only the lease of the "new electric ECE regulation 10 approval" I will never buy parts simply because I do no money for it. Its a waste of time to convince me about that option Then the parts simply will not go into action and stay here till the day it becomes possible. I can use it for a wind mill. or I will use them in an already owning PSA electric vehicle with low performance..


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> For sure I have an American controller. the UK parts offered by a reseller were too expensive.


So *you* made the decision to purchase a US product without CE certificates because it was 'cheap'... can I suggest you now use the money you saved to have your product CE tested and get on with converting your car?


Please also read the following post again and think about the reality we all face when converting cars...



gromsound said:


> You cant turn the clock back to pre 2011, were stuck with that legislation and if you want to make your own EV for public road use its the only way to go.


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

I do not think the Netherlands will stay forever like this and stay with this neoliberal political party. there were already political questions about these problems at the RDW with Volkswagen EMC. etc. I mean the economy of the netherlands and europe is growing because the banks provide money for houses again and this money goes into circulation and fake grow the economy.. But this is not real growth. real companies. future generations will go into the same problems as we saw in 2008. The Netherlands has largest private debt bubble of European union and society is aging. and this will lead to a deep recession that is larger then 2008 recession.. Also The Euro is weak. and Germany is already at the European court with trying to leave the euro. because of Italy France etc. The future of the Netherlands does not look bright. so the political landscape must change. and become more for the people instead of the banks and multinationals. I have time.. I do not need the parts.. I can drive electric already. and there will be NO new nikola tesla to reinvent this Siemens electromotor... its just a pity i never became that happy customer of new electric like you and oude volvo


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

elektrischeauto777 said:


> I do not think this the Netherlands will stay forever like this...


Clearly you want a political rant not a solution to your drivetrain issue... please start a new thread in the 'chit chat' forum (here) so that we can return to the purpose of this thread... the DAF EV33


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## elektrischeauto777 (Dec 10, 2017)

because its not really a solution. the drive train is already almost 3 years doing nothing. the solution was the guys from New Electric and Rebbl and maybe more but New electric sells me a million dollar house while I only asked for the door. supply and demand. its like if you want to buy your small children a small children's ice cream and you will get a banana-split. pretty desperate to sell. I think it doesn't work like that. you do not seem to get that.


well thanks for the information.. I will go find other ways. I will let you know the roads to rome if I am at the end of it


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