# EV Rally car.



## pandaran (Nov 13, 2007)

Sounds exciting! And who knows, the rules may not allow EV cars in rally races now, but get enough people interested, and you can start your own division!


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

Yeah as far as the rules go for what engine you can use its more related to the engine has to be from the same manufacturer as the car, it doesn’t always have to be the stock one but if you have a Subaru you need to use a Subaru engine a Mitsubishi a Mitsubishi engine. Not so much that they are against electric. The rule is just there so you don’t have people sticking jet engines on there cars. But it would be cool to host an electric division.


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Check out the electric imp. http://www.proev.com/


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

Thats got to be one of the sickest cars I've ever seen, and the car they started with is the exact same car I own same year and model. I just wish I could see it in person.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hmmm....I did see a Utube video of a race car that was powered by lithium batteries, I wonder if this is it? The video is from a bumper cam, so it doesn't show the car. Anyhoo, heres the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJWNzFR_QQ


Ioku, I'm not sure how much you want to spend on your project, but if you want to be able to run with the gassers, while still having a decent range, then lithium ion batteries are the natural choice, but a 50 mile range is still possible while running off of lead.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Ooooh now I get it. I clicked on that link for the "Electric Imp" expecting to find a Hillman Imp. That's the only Imp I know of. They look like this:








I didn't know there was a newer car using the same name. Where's it made? The Hillman Imp was British.


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## Greenflight (Sep 13, 2007)

Actually it's short for Imprezza. Made by Subaru. Pretty sweet machine, in fact. Look it up on ebay- they're pretty cool.

That Hillman Imp is kind of a far cry...


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

I think that you tube vid is of the same car it has ProEV.com on the video witch is the same site the car is from, and it looks like a rally race from the vid. 

And the Hillman Imp looks alot like the subaru FF1 from back in the 70's


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Oh right. I know about the Imprezza.

I've just noticed in the photo of the Hillman Imp, the guy holding the Toyota flag is wearing a top hat and tails. It's not normal car-racing attire in New Zealand... Must be a British thing.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

As it turns out, this ectric imprezza is the first car to win an officially sanctioned race (other than just drag racing) that was not strictly for electric cars, it was the only EV in the pack. And its still winning races apearently.....

Heres the car: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/464.html

The lithium age is comming .


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

The twin motor design that they went with is very cool, but I think I am just going to stick with one motor and use the Subaru drive train to make things easier and I want this to still be a car I can drive around town. So what I need to figure out is what motor to use. I am thinking of using the WarP 9 motor found here, http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp9.php , but if I could find a AC motor that is as powerful I would prefer it so I could have regen breaking.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

These guys have AC motors. I think this is where the EV imprezza got its motor from.

http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm

They han in theory put out much more constant power (liquid cooling) than the warP 9", but they are more expencive, and require much higher voltage.


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

Hey we have the same idea, more or less! 

I'm planning on converting an early 90s Liberty/Legacy sedan with AC motors in a similar way to the Electric Imp. I'll might end up starting with just the one motor in the rear, and fill the engine bay up with batteries to keep the weight distribution similar to stock. That depends on how much the motors cost. I'm not going to build this one for racing, though, just commuting. I like the idea of AWD, but I'd like to keep the number of mechanical parts to a minimum... I just had to put a new gearbox in my ICE Outback a few months ago... If I could do away with all of that I'd be happy, but hub motors are expensive.  



After that, maybe I'll be able to convert an old Brumby/BRAT into an electric offroad toy for me.


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## blastergti (Dec 28, 2007)

I dont know about you, but i found this beauty on Azure dynamics / Solectrias homepage and it looks to be the right choice for the ones searching for some serious power!
http://www.azuredynamics.com/pdf/AC90+DMOC645 - June 2007.pdf

I dont know the price though, would be interesting to know!

/ / Blaster GTi


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

Thalass the legacy should make a cool EV nice to see someone else here is a Subaru fan an electric Brat would be cool too I love all those older 80s Subaru's.
And that motor you linked there blastergti looks crazy says its for trucks and buses up to 18,000 pounds you could snap axles with that thing.


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## blastergti (Dec 28, 2007)

Ioku said:


> And that motor you linked there blastergti looks crazy says its for trucks and buses up to 18,000 pounds you could snap axles with that thing.


Yes it will easily kill some axles, gears and differentials... 
Because of that, one would need a whole transmission strong enough to take this power. 

BMW transmission parts are very durable that i have heard. According to a Swedish tuner site, The bmw M3 e36 gearbox, drivshafts, and differential can take 600Nm without any problems, the clutch is just needed to be replaced to a sinter type, and you are ready to go. 
Even many muscle car transmissions can take loads of power without a sweat. That is if one would like to build something extreme though.

It would be a great kit for the strip in my opinion, or a nice tire shredding tool 

But we gonna remember this: it reaches 600Nm/442ft-lb of torque at 312Volts only. It even works on 100Volts as lowest, so i think it is a flexible kit!

So - if we need less power, then it is just to do some maths, and decrease the voltage as much as needed, to lower the torque without loosing too much power, or buying another motorkit .

// Best regards Blaster GTi!


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I think that the motor is supposed to be placed in front of the differential. No transmission would be needed for this motor.


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## blastergti (Dec 28, 2007)

xrotaryguy said:


> I think that the motor is supposed to be placed in front of the differential. No transmission would be needed for this motor.


Yep, i checked the AC90 pdf linked above one minute ago =).
-"eliminating the need for a multi-speed gearbox in some applications, directly driving the vehicle’s wheels with a fixed ratio."

It is a good way of doing it, but the diamter is massive, 14 inches! 
if mounted on the diff housing, i am afraid it will hit the ground... 
I hope i didnt misunderstand you about the way it was going to be mounted
-Another way: A long shaft from the motor in the engine bay directly to the diff housing should be just as good i think.

Shame on me, i am almost taking this thread off topic too 

Ioku, you were searching motors, This motor may fit your project, 
This one is also not as powerful as the AC90, and will hopefully not break drivshafts, or gears 
-Same manufacturer, 290 Nm [email protected] V 140Nm [email protected]
http://www.azuredynamics.com/pdf/AC55+DMOC445 - June 2007.pdf
Best wishes! - Blaster GTi


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

Yeah that motor would probably work well for my idea its smaller and lighter, and it says its for cars weighing 5000 to 11000 pounds and I plan on haveing my car weigh 2500 to 3000 pounds so it would still have lots of power. 

I am still not sure what sort of drive system I want to do I might do a duel motor thing like that other Impreza or maybe even a quad motor set up.


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## blastergti (Dec 28, 2007)

Allright! 

What advantages would a dual/quad drive make compared to a single setup?

-Curious little me 

Four motors would be an impressive sight by the way =D!

/ / Best wishes! -Blaster GTi


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

Well, with four hub motors - one for each wheel - you automatically have four wheel ABS braking, and also anti-skid when accelerating (assuming the controller handles this), since the controller will moniter the wheel speeds and if one loses traction, it'll know what to do. Same with braking. 

The other advantage of hub motors is that there is no drivetrain. No mechanical parts to break except the motor. Though unfortunately having the motor inside the wheel puts quite strong loads on the bearings, but then they're built for that. 

Those are the only advantages that I know of. 

If you have a motor bolted to the existing gearbox and drivetrain then you have all those mechanical bits that need maintenance (lubing isn't hard, but it's still work! ) and they can all break. The up side is that it's an easy conversion, and with an AC motor (or a clever DC controller) you can still have regen. 

If you have two motors, one going to a rear diff and one to a front diff, then you have a good inbetween system. It's got a few mechanical bits, but CV joints and diffs aren't hard to maintain or replace, and there's no godsdamned gearbox (which is good). You won't have built-in ABS or antiskid, but most newer cars have ABS anyway, and I'm sure you can adapt it for the new system. 

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of at the moment.


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## blastergti (Dec 28, 2007)

Great explanation!

The hub motors! aw, i forgot them completely  
I thought of four motors working at the gearbox´s ingoing axle 

Yes that´s right, the ABS system is independent.

This hit me right now: 
How do the regen braking, discbrakes and ABS work together if one would use the motor-to-gearbox setup? 

If you brake, all the wheels discbrakes would engage and the regen as well.
And if the ABS have to work at the same time, what will happen?

Many questions, but do anyone know?

// Best regards! -Blaser GTi


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## Ioku (Sep 27, 2007)

Well you can you hub motors to have a motor for each wheel but I don't plan on using them if I do a quad motor set up. I think the hub motors are just too much unsprung weight and would give me bad handling. instead I would use 4 motors with each one connected to a axle by gears I think this would also give better acceleration having the gears. 

As for regen still don't know much about that.


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

From what I know, most people set up regen with it's own lever or something. I've seen one that was a spring-loaded linear resistor glued into the front of an auto-gearbox style gear selector, so that when he wanted to slow down he just used one finger on the gear selector, and that would stop him fine, but in an emergency the old mechanical brakes were there. 

Personally I'd set it up so that when I pushed on the brake pedal the regen would kick in, and the brakes wouldn't come into it until the pedal was, say, half way pushed in and then both would work together. It'd be tricky to set up, though.


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## blastergti (Dec 28, 2007)

Ok! 

That was some interesting reading from you both!

That with the regen braking with the "halfway pushed" style can be done with some electronics, allthough, how that unit would be built would be something to work on for me. 

I got an idea, but no sketches yet, i have to figure this out! 

Something like this came up at first: 
A spring loaded potentiometer and some steelwires to the brake pedal... 
How it would be built is another question, and would be vehicle and controller specific depending on how the controller works, and how the car is built.

Remember:
All digital electronics are about opening and closing circuits!

Best regards! -Blaster GTi


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