# Nissan LEAF Electric Car Is Engineered for the Real World



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's a very nice vehicle with some good features. Depending on price it could be a trend setter.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> That's a very nice vehicle with some good features. Depending on price it could be a trend setter.


I could have sworn I saw on Yahoo Finance that it was going to be in the same price range as the Versa it is based on.... $15000? Seems too low to believe, but, well...


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## BWH (Sep 26, 2008)

From what I've heard (http://business.theage.com.au/business/nissan-turns-over-a-new-green-leaf-20090802-e5wm.html) buying the car will be cheap enough, but then you have to lease the lithium-manganese batteries on top of that. 



> Nissan’s head of product planning, Andy Palmer... said the Leaf, excluding its battery pack, would cost the equivalent of a small family car, and the company planned to enter into a multiple-year lease of its special lithium-ion battery pack with its first customers.


Of course you could always buy the car and put your own batteries in it.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

> the company expects the car to be competitively priced in the range of a well-equipped C-segment vehicle.


I suppose that could mean anything from $15K and up? Not sure of the price range for "C-segment" vehicles but I'd imagine there is a lot of room for them to play with. If it's close to $25K I'd say it's a winner.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

BWH said:


> From what I've heard (http://business.theage.com.au/business/nissan-turns-over-a-new-green-leaf-20090802-e5wm.html) buying the car will be cheap enough, but then you have to lease the lithium-manganese batteries on top of that.


Ah, that's how they are "pricing" the vehicle to keep it "low". I'd look carefully at the battery lease terms, do you have to pay extra at the end of the battery lease if their capacity is below a certain amount, like paying for extra miles on an ICE over the lease number?


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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

_Nissan President and CEO Carlos Ghosn. "We have been working tirelessly to make this day a reality - the unveiling of a real-world car that has zero - not simply reduced - emissions. It's the first step in what is sure to be an exciting journey - for people all over the world, for Nissan and for the industry."
_I like this guy Carlos Ghosn._
"The monthly cost of the batteries plus the electric charge will be less than the cost of gasoline"

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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

Here is a video that shows more, like the batteries and the charge area.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

More detailed info:


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## piersdad (Aug 16, 2008)

> The price was not announced but Ghosn said it would be "very competitive."
> Nissan plans to sell the car at a similar price to a comparable model with a petrol-powered engine. The battery, which will be stored under the seat and floor, will be leased separately.
> "The monthly cost of the battery, plus the electric charge, will be less than the cost of gasoline," Ghosn said.


i have been in favour of leasing batteries since i produced the neev electric truck in 1980 
http://www.storydad.com/forum/index.php?topic=130.0
nothing kills am ev quicker than having to _'fill up your tank'_ with $5000 or more worth of energy storage.
all my electric trucks are now in musems or rotting away in some shed.all are still able to be used if the owners spent money on new bateries.
so at last nissan have actually made a very sensible acessment of what will work for the EV future.

any one with an electric cars should access the life and price of a battery and put away a savings account to pay for the next battery 

the interest on their savings would keep pace with inflation


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

In the long run I doubt leasing will really be a "good deal" for the consumer. Leasing vehicles costs more than buying them over time, I doubt it will be any different with batteries. With batteries now capable of thousands of charge cycles and the prices dropping they are a better investment than ever before, and that's likely to improve as the technology continues to improve. Even a pack that has reduced capacity after life in an EV will still have value in other applications such as back up power supplies or off grid applications. I'd rather own my cells.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Leasing anything in the long run in more expensive than own, yet millions of people lease stuff every day, just different views on life's choices I guess. Hey, as long as it puts more EVs on the road I'm all for it 

It would be really interesting to see LEAF take off and compete with Volt and other EVs. Can you imagine competition in EV world few years down the road, good times 

I think its a smart move to lease LEAF's battery, this will bring customers who are otherwise on a fence of investing tons of money into "unproven" technology. Let's face it, even the best Lithium batteries are still "unproven" for the mass EV market.

I just wish they had both buy and lease option, so people could choose whichever they want.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Making poor financial choices is part of the reason this country is in the shape it's in. However I do agree that in the short term it may help more EV's get on the road, so even though I would not partake in a battery lease program I can see the _potential _benefits.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Actually, leasing makes perfect sense for the typical consumer. Many, especially in this difficult economy, would have a difficult time springing for the full purchase price of a new car. But if the car is cheap and it simply has leased batteries, it's not much different than the cost of gas would have been. They don't really see the cost of electricity, since it is hidden in their electric bill.

Is it an advantage to the consumer? No. But it might get more people to "buy" them.

Another thought which actually MIGHT be an advantage to the consumer - suppose something like EEStor actually arrives in, say, 2 years. Ditch the lease, upgrade to a better battery cheap.

At the end of the day it will take a new marketing scheme, perhaps this one, to get more expensive battery cars to be accepted.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

PhantomPholly said:


> Another thought which actually MIGHT be an advantage to the consumer - suppose something like EEStor actually arrives in, say, 2 years. Ditch the lease, upgrade to a better battery cheap.


That would also depend a lot on the lease terms. They probably won't make it cost effective to bail out early on a lease.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> That would also depend a lot on the lease terms. They probably won't make it cost effective to bail out early on a lease.


I agree that they certainly wouldn't INTEND to! However, if you can bail on your lease for a significant increase in capability, many might make the switch.

If I understand the claims correctly for EEStor (and, I'm just using them for illustration as many claim it is a scam), swapping LiIon for an EESU would result in doubling (or better) the range and never need replacement. 

So as you said it depends on the lease terms - but it also depends on the emergent technological replacement.


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