# Honda Civic wagon Conversion



## evcars (Mar 15, 2008)

I just joined hoping for some help and ideas for my new project. I bought a 1983 Honda Civic 5spd today which I plan on converting to electric power. Now I need help deciding which motor/controller setup to go with. I want to drive the car to work, 60 miles round trip while averaging 35-40 mph. Does this sound like a reasonable goal? It may be possible to recharge while at work. 

I have been researching conversion kits but don't know if I need to spend the extra money for one. I am able to fabricate the adapter plate, coupler and battery boxes. I had originally planned on using 12 6 volt golf cart batteries for a 72 volt system but am now thinking of going with a 96 volt system using 12 8 volt GC batteries. 
Which motor, controller and charger would be best for reaching my goal of a 60 mile range? Speed is not a major concern right now. I would be happy with 45mph tops as long as the range is decent. 

I'm really excited about doing this project. I don't know anything about EV's, just some experience with electric golf carts. I can't wait to learn!!


----------



## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

Just to let you know, 60 Miles of range is at the edge of Lead-Acid batteries reach.

Also, how hilly is the terrain your driving over? This can seriously effect your range.

A 5% grade will DRAMATICALLY increase your energy requirements.


You might as well go with a higher voltage system, just because of the increased efficiency. 120V-144V would be good.

Check out:
http://www.beepscom.com/
For some parts comparisons, there's not a lot of info but you'll find whats available.

This D&D motor might be around the power you'd want, depending on your batteries:
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/mo-es-31b.htm

10HP could bring you up to 45mph but you need a 60 mile range which means you're going to have a heavier battery pack, so I'd recommend over 15HP.
This wouldn't give very good acceleration though.


Now here's the big problem, lets assume at 45mph your using 250 watt-hours of power per mile, (it could be anywhere from 150-300WH/mile).

If your using 250 watt-hours per mile you'd need a 15 Kilowatt hour battery pack to reach a "THEORETICAL" 60 mile range, but you wouldn't be able to maintain your speed at the end, so you'll need at least 25% more power.

Your battery pack would have to be 18-22 Kilowatt Hours.

Lets say it's 20 to be safe.
At a battery pack voltage of 120 volts you'd need 167 Amp Hours of power.
At a pack voltage of 96 volts you'd need 208 Amp Hours.

This battery pack if made with Lead-Acid batteries would end up weighing anywhere from 1300 to 2000+ pounds.

This is a serious amount of weight to place on a Honda Civic and the added weight would affect the range.

There's a difference between a Lead Sled and a Lead Lawn ornament: one moves.

So you might want to go with NiMH or Lithium batteries.

LionEV sells Lithium battery packs and chargers:
http://www.lionev.com/

Valence also makes Lithium batteries that I've seen a few EV'ers use:
http://www.valence.com/products/cells_home.html

They're not cheap but even Lead-Acids have skyrocketed in price today...


----------



## evcars (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks for the info. Those Lithium batteries look like the best way to go but I'm worried about availability. 

Let's say for this first car I went with the lead acid battery pack. I've been told that the amount, kind and voltage of battery used will greatly affect range and reliability. How much is the range really affected if I went with 10 12 volt batteries versus 15 8 volt golf cart batteries? 

SAM'S has 8 volt Energizer golf cart batteries rated at 220 AH for $72 each. That's well within my budget, but can the car handle 15 of these? 

I figured 60 miles would be pushing the range. Would 35 miles on a daily basis be more achievable? We don't have any bad hills around here. 



> Lets say it's 20 to be safe.
> At a battery pack voltage of 120 volts you'd need 167 Amp Hours of power.
> At a pack voltage of 96 volts you'd need 208 Amp Hours.


Ahh so a more powerful system is also more efficient? What exactly does 167 Amp Hours equate to? Does this relate to the battery's rating of 220 AH?


----------



## demolay rules (Feb 28, 2008)

Ah stands for amp-hours.


----------



## evcars (Mar 15, 2008)

Ok I would like to go with a 120 volt system and I think the D&D ES-31B motor is a good choice. Now for the controller, which one do I need to use? What difference do the more expensive controllers make? 

The spirit of this project for me is to keep it practical and economical. My budget is $4000 with the batteries; not including the price of the car, adaptor plate, coupler and battery boxes.


----------



## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

Kelly has arguably the cheapest controllers, I don't know too much about them but I haven't heard anything bad.

I'd go with this Kelly Controller:
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/co-kdh14500.htm

Since the 120v version of that controller is the same price you might as well have the 144v version.



> Ahh so a more powerful system is also more efficient? What exactly does 167 Amp Hours equate to? Does this relate to the battery's rating of 220 AH?


Yes it relates to the batteries AH rating.

The Amp Hour ratings I was explaining to you where to break down the 20 Kilowatt battery pack you'd need.

20 kilowatt-hours = 20,000 watt-hours.

Watts Divided by Volts = Amps.
Since this is Watt-Hours, you'll end up with Amp-Hours.

So if your battery pack was 144 volts, then your 20,000 divided by 144 = 138.8(139) Amp-hours.

Here's a Wiki Article on this topic:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6535


Those batteries from SAMS look good, what type are they?
Flooded Lead Acid or Sealed Lead Acid? AGM?

How much does each battery weigh?

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Honda Civic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic


What you need is to find the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of your Civic, this number says how much extra weight you can add on top of the car safely, thus how many batteries we'll be able to stuff into it.

Of course when you remove the engine and other parts you'll be able to load on more.

A 35 Mile range is easily achievable.
If you used 15 of those batteries you mentioned you could probably get your 50-60 miles, depending on how much they weigh.

One thing about this motor though that I recommended to you, I'm starting to think it might be a little under powered for the amount of batteries you'll be adding to your vehicle.

It should be ok as long as you drive conservatively, you wont be able to accelerate too quickly, or go over 45mph without risking damage to the motor.

This website here has quite a few spreadsheets you can use to calculate what your EV might do:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/Welcome.html

You can also use the EV calculator:
http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/


----------



## the slashmaster (Feb 24, 2008)

It will be way cheaper if you forget about the 60 miles and can get your boss to let you plug in at work because you won't need as many batteries. Why don't you figure out the kilowatt hours it will use and pay your boss for them. Much much cheaper that way. But don't get just enough to only get to work because it's bad for batteries to drain them below 80%. Also batteries lose capacity as they age.


----------

