# Would a Suzuki Samurai make an acceptable donor vehicle? (BTW hello)



## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

I think that it would work well. I converted a Sidekick and that is heavier. Try to avoid the 4x4 version because the range will be less, unless you can totally disable it.


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

That depends on how you want to do your conversion. If you remove the ICE and connect the electric motor to the gearbox, then a 4WD will have greater losses and will weigh more than the same car as a 2WD. However, I think (correct me if I'm wrong), if you discard the gearbox as well, and the tailshaft, and hook two smaller motors to the diffs (one in the back, one in the front), then you'll get to keep your 4WD, while having less losses than a standard conversion. 

That's my plan, anyway.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's a pretty light vehicle so I don't think the extra weight of the front axle and transfer case will be that much of a problem. If the front has locking hubs then most of the time the front end won't be causing any drag losses.


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## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

I wouldn't worry about the 4WD's weight, I would just make sure that you can turn it off. I wouldn't mess around with two motors or direct coupling, unless you are using AC motors or something that has a lot of RPM's.


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## SciTech02 (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks for the fast reply(s).

I suspected that it would not be a huge problem (I remember reading somewhere here of someone converting a Samurai). Sorry if I sound like a noob, but why would connecting a motor directly to the gearbox and driving with 4WD have greater losses? I ask this because I think (but I'm not sure) that the Samurai was only available as a 4X4.

Anyway, thanks for your information.


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

SciTech02 said:


> (I remember reading somewhere here of someone converting a Samurai).


Have you seen the EV album? http://www.evalbum.com

They've got a few converted Samurais...
http://www.evalbum.com/188
http://www.evalbum.com/567
http://www.evalbum.com/1059


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## SciTech02 (Jun 21, 2008)

ClintK said:


> Have you seen the EV album? http://www.evalbum.com
> 
> They've got a few converted Samurais...
> http://www.evalbum.com/188
> ...


Yeah, funny actually, I finished looking at those just before I read your post.  The interesting thing is they seemed to keep them all in 4X4.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

SciTech02 said:


> Sorry if I sound like a noob, but why would connecting a motor directly to the gearbox and driving with 4WD have greater losses?


Theoretically the extra gears in the transfer case and front axle will cause more drag loss than a vehicle without those, plus the added weight. But as I mentioned if you can shift out of 4 wheel drive and unlock the front hubs for most of your driving it shouldn't be a big problem.


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## SciTech02 (Jun 21, 2008)

Cool! So a Suzuki Samurai would make a great donor car if you could disable the 4WD, but would work okay if you kept it. This pretty much answers my question. Thanks again for all your replies.


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## Tristar500 (Jul 9, 2008)

A friend and I bought a Samurai this evening and are starting the conversion process soon. I'll post photos and update as we go.



SciTech02 said:


> Cool! So a Suzuki Samurai would make a great donor car if you could disable the 4WD, but would work okay if you kept it. This pretty much answers my question. Thanks again for all your replies.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

based on the immediately prior post it may be too little too late, but if you are planning a lot of higher speed driving (50+ mph) and range is important to you then aerodynamics will become a factor and you will be able to do better with a car body. But if you want a 4x4 style chassis the samurai is a great choice, if not the best choice.

Good luck.


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## Nodd (Jun 6, 2008)

My initial thought was that you may run into battery space issues. I've seen a lot of folks make comments about Jeep Wranglers for the same reason. If you can fit an appropriately sized pack in there then great but I'd make sure you have room before getting too far into the project.


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## hyu (Apr 10, 2008)

Why would ya ever want to convert a 4wd to a 2wd? You'd never know if it could come in handy in the future ie. stuck in mud, stuck in ice, stuck on a cliff  

Seriously I don't think the inertia or mechanical inefficiencies of a 4wd drivetrain would make that much of a difference. I think a normal gearbox has a power loss of 25% already... a 4wd has an extra diff, driveshaft and 2 driveaxles going to the rear wheels, sounds like a lot, but there's really not that much rotational inertia to affect the system in any subtantial way.

That's assuming you're gonna connect the e-motor to the original gearbox. Keep it simple.

But if you're really concerned you could always look it up. Google something like "efficiency of 2wd vs 4wd" etc.


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## swampjeep (May 16, 2008)

couple comments about samurai, they did actually come in 2wd, 
I've seen a few, 
the 4wd ones use a divorced transfer case, meaning there is a short intermediate shaft (like a short drive shaft) between a standard 2wd type gear box, and teh transfer case. 
So if you wanted to simplify it and eliminate the 4wd, you could remove the transfer case and use a longer drive shaft to go right from the transmission to the rear diff. if you do this you could remove all the shafts and lockouts from teh front axle to elliminate any extra drag. 

This also makes me wonder if it would be possible to elliminate the gear box and run the electric motor right to the transfer case to keep the 4wd, the gearing of these stock transfer cases are High 1.409, low 2.268.

as for the space for batteries, if the rear seat is elliminated I would think there is LOTS of room there for batteries.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Ok, My $0.02, whatever that's worth in today's economy.

I have owned a Samurai, and am very familiar with it's setup.

The Sammy has a great feature if you want to convert it to 2WD. It's called a "Divorced Transfer Case". This means that the T-case is not directly attached to the transmission, there is a short (about 1 foot long) driveshaft between the transmission an t-case. If you were so inclined, you could remove the t-case and build a custom driveshaft.

Yes, the T-case will add a little inefficiency to the mix in the 2WD mode, because you have more gears and bearings between the transmission and rear differential.

However, it also has "locking hubs" on the front axle, which means when they are unlocked, they "freewheel" just like a non-4WD axle, adding no extra resistance. Also, when the T-case is shifted into 2WD-High, only half the gears in the T-case are turning- I.E. no power goes to the front driveshaft, and when the hubs are unlocked and you are in 2WD mode, nothing on the front end drivetrain is spinning. You're just carrying the weight of that axle, differential, driveshaft and t-case.

Yes- like others pointed out, it has been done. Even Otmar (Cafe' Electric/Zilla controller creator) used to run a Samurai as an EV, and as I recall, he liked it well enough. I think you could find a far worse choice of donor, but also worry that there is not enough available space to hold much in the way of PbA-chemistry batteries, thus range will not be superb. If you can afford a more dense chemistry of battery, it will be a better choice.

If you honestly don't think you'll ever use the 4WD, it is possible to completely convert it to 2WD, though I'm not sure what you could use to replace the front axle. I can't recall off the top of my head though if the axle can "freewheel" without the actual axle shafts in the front axle. If it can, you could simply remove the axle shafts (perhaps need to leave the half axles at the wheel-to-steering-knuckle), the 3rd member (differential), driveshaft and t-case...

Another consideration- in stock form, the Samurai's suspension is VERY stiff, as if they put springs that were rated far higher than the weight that the vehicle shipped from the factory. As such, I would expect the springs can hold more weight than the GVWR of the vehicle would suggest.

Hmm, food for thought.


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