# Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

If it is because of the slow rate of speech then just run it at close
to 1.5 times the normal speed and it is much better in my opinion.
Also, I have learned that Jack doesn't give all the pertinent info
when making a statement or claim. Over time of watching many of the
"missing" pieces come together which so you have a better
understanding of where he is coming from and are better informed as to
agree or disagree.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, David "Battery Boy" Hawkins


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > All,
> > At about fine minutes into the video I slit my wrist! Should I plug
> > the artery and hang in there a little longer, or just bleed out?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Well if you are depressed enough to "slit your wrist and bleed out" because
of your choice to watch an online TV show then you might want to seek some
professional help.

I hope you are OK.

The EVTV shows do tend to move slowly and that is why it is a good idea to
speed them up. Information is normally very good if you can take the
speed. At least it is on Friday night and if you are home rather than in a
bar, and you are an EV nut, then what better could you watch? So sappy
movie? A Sitcom? 

Remember the mouse or remote control is in the palm of your hand and if you
are a Nielsen ratings household, it will all be recorded for researchers
across the USA!

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
Vice President, www.ECEDRA.com 
President, Trans Atlantic Electric Conversions LLC
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com 
President, NJ Electric Auto Association
Member, Board of Directors, Electric Auto Association




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of David "Battery Boy" Hawkins
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 12:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

All,
At about fine minutes into the video I slit my wrist! Should I plug the
artery and hang in there a little longer, or just bleed out?
BB
--
Suck Amps,
Dave "Battery Boy" Hawkins
Check out our website!
http://bbevs.com/

> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: gottdi
>
> Good Episode this time? Dang, where have you been. They're all good. 
> Guess you have lots of watching to do. New and exciting things will be
coming.
> Stay Tuned 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> On 7 Oct 2011 at 14:01, David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know a way to speed up a YouTube video?
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Douglas,
I should have been more clear about being bored, not depressed! Why
would anyone want to listen to that for 2 1/2 hours? A 50 million
dollar movie production isn't that long! I mean, who has that kind of
time? It could be edited down to 30 minutes with a quicker pace. And
what is up with El Braino? He looks nervous. Maybe he should drink
some Stag beer to loosen up a bit, but don't let him work around
eeelectricity if he has been a drinking!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-5-jLw-_X8
BB
-- 
Suck Amps,
Dave "Battery Boy" Hawkins
Check out our website!
http://bbevs.com/

> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:01:04 -0400
> From: "Douglas A. Stansfield"
>
> Well if you are depressed enough to "slit your wrist and bleed out" because
> of your choice to watch an online TV show then you might want to seek some
> professional help.
>
> I hope you are OK.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Wait until the video is published on his blog then just click that one and
you will have the low resolution one. Still looks fine on the computer. Some
episodes are boring but over all they are fine. At least we get more
information coming from Jack than here or diy combined. Aside from that it
sounds like you guys need to upgrade your computers and internet
connections. Sounds like your computers are as old a lead acid. 

Its time to get with the new. Just because the old works does not mean you
need to remain stuck in the past. Holy cow, can't even watch a low
resolution version of EVTV on your computer? Ouch. 

I thought all this was about the Future and not the past. The world moves
ahead and you choose to stay behind, makes no sense. 

Aside from that Brian is not nervous. Not even. We happened to get to meet
them all and it's just his style on video. Remember it is a video
production. One could have a production crew that would edit and clip and
hack and cut but it would not be the same. It would be just another TV show.

Unless your so far out in the sticks and can only get dial up I can't
imagine you would not upgrade to modern equipment and speeds. Makes no sense
to do so. Just like it makes no sense to stay with Lead when we have better.
Time to move on. 

The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones. 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3887306.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

> Unless your so far out in the sticks and can only get dial up I can't
> imagine you would not upgrade to modern equipment and speeds.

For many of us, modern equipment (satellite) mean 1Mbs at best -- it
seems that more and more webpages (and internet services like netflix,
streaming movies, etc) are now designed for 6 to 12Mbs connections,
and Satelite, which used to be loads better than dialup when I got it
3 years ago, is now becoming the equivalent of dialup in terms of
usefulness. DSL stops about 10 miles down the road from me, and
cable about 25 miles. There's not enough customers up here for them
to care about extending the lines. Microwave relay links are faster
than satellite, but as of yet, none reach my location either...

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > > Unless your so far out in the sticks and can only get dial up I can't
> > > imagine you would not upgrade to modern equipment and speeds.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> >
> > On 7 Oct 2011 at 14:01, David Dymaxion wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

From: gottdi <[email protected]>
> Wait until the video is published on his blog then just click that
> one and you will have the low resolution one.

That doesn't work for me, on either the Mac laptop or Windows desktop with Firefox 3. 

> At least we get more information coming from Jack than here or diy
> combined.

I'm sorry I've been wasting your time. Then just get all your information from Jack.

> Aside from that it sounds like you guys need to upgrade your computers
> and internet connections.

It must be nice to be rich, and able to buy new computers every couple years. And have fast internet access, new software, and new peripherals to go with it. And still able to afford new EVs like the Tesla or Leaf, plug-in Prius conversions, or spend many thousands of dollars for lithium batteries.

Me? None of my cars are less than 10 years old. My newest computer is 5 years old. I don't have cable or satellite TV, and no smartphone either. My internet connection is via DSL on my phone line (at least it beats the dial-up modem I had to use until a few years ago).

I don't make enough to afford luxuries. The money saved goes into old forklift parts and lead-acid batteries. Without this, I wouldn't have an EV at all!



--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

EVTV shows what the next generation of EV builders will look like. I have learned a great deal from Jack and Brian, more than I ever learned from this bias forum. There should be two EVDL's one for the haters stuck in the past, and a new forum for the guys willing to put their money where their mouth is! Plenty of talk on this forum, but talk is cheap! It's all about action.





> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > From: gottdi <[email protected]>
> >> Wait until the video is published on his blog then just click that
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

It seems like you've already declared this the list of 'haters who are stuc=
k in the past'. Doesn't Jack have a forum? you can hang out there and=
declare it the forum for guys 'willing to put their money where there mout=
h is'. In fact, hasn't Jack already declared it that? sounds like you=
've gotten what you want, so why stay here? 


________________________________
From: The Battery Shop <[email protected]>
To: Lee Hart <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev=
@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

EVTV shows what the next generation of EV builders will look like. I have l=
earned a great deal from Jack and Brian, more than I ever learned from this=
bias forum. There should be two EVDL's one for the haters stuck in the pas=
t, and a new forum for the guys willing to put their money where their mout=
h is! Plenty of talk on this forum, but talk is cheap! It's all about actio=
n.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

This may be new to you, but this is a free Country and I do have the right to post any where that is considered a public forum. I have never met a crowd of people that jump so easy to attack the next guy until I started reading on EV forums. The keyboard attack squads need to stop, we know where that originate, Mr. Roden needs to "punish" all that violate the rules, not just one side. Now leave Jack alone, he is a very honorable gentleman that earned his money from hard work! Stop hating someone successful. 





> David Ladd <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > It seems like you've already declared this the list of 'haters who are stuck in the past'. Doesn't Jack have a forum? you can hang out there and declare it the forum for guys 'willing to put their money where there mouth is'. In fact, hasn't Jack already declared it that? sounds like you've gotten what you want, so why stay here?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

I get my information from many sources. Some sources give more
information than others. The interesting thing is that all the sources
give valuable information. It is not about the quantity of bits of
information. Just because someone uses a technology you think is
outdated doesn't mean that all their information is outdated. I have
to sift through Jacks information just like I do here and on DIY. Why
put down one of the many sources of information you have?

I appreciate all the time and effort that is put into helping me and
others here on the list. What do you appreciate about it? If nothing,
then just leave quietly. If you are putting down this list then you
are still trying to justify your leaving because you still are getting
valuable information here.

-- 
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com

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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Wow, nothing in David Ladd's post was about hating Jack yet you seem
to have taken it that way. You are the one who talked about hating.
David just used your terminology for what you were asking for. Don't
confuse difference of opinion and analysis as hating vs. not hating.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 2:27 PM, The Battery Shop
<[email protected]> wrote:
> This may be new to you, but this is a free Country and I do have the righ=
t to post any where that is considered a public forum. I have never met a c=
rowd of people that jump so easy to attack the next guy until I started rea=
ding on EV forums. The keyboard attack squads need to stop, we know where t=
hat originate, Mr. Roden needs to "punish" all that violate the rules, not =
just one side. Now leave Jack alone, he is a very honorable gentleman that =
earned his money from hard work! Stop hating someone successful.
>
>
>
>


> David Ladd <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> It seems like you've already declared this the list of 'haters who are s=
> tuck in the past'. Doesn't Jack have a forum? you can hang out there =
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

it is new to me, I don't hate anyone, I just don't understand why you stay =
here if you dislike the email list so much. I have never met Jack (or yo=
u, or anyone else on this forum) but it is clear he is doing some great thi=
ngs. I also know his way of doing it irritates me so I choose not to go =
to his site. I don't care if others do or do not, it's really none of my=
business.




________________________________
From: The Battery Shop <[email protected]>
To: David Ladd <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev=
@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

This may be new to you, but this is a free Country and I do have the right =
to post any where that is considered a public forum. I have never met a cro=
wd of people that jump so easy to attack the next guy until I started readi=
ng on EV forums. The keyboard attack squads need to stop, we know where tha=
t originate, Mr. Roden needs to "punish" all that violate the rules, not ju=
st one side. Now leave Jack alone, he is a very honorable gentleman that ea=
rned his money from hard work! Stop hating someone successful. =






> David Ladd <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > It seems like you've already declared this the list of 'haters who are st=
> uck in the past'. Doesn't Jack have a forum? you can hang out there a=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

If the show irritates you then why add your opinion? You should keep your comments to yourself. By expressing your negative opinion is hating! 

But, I am sure the "attack squad" will now jump into full gear and attack me. I can care less if I get banned, so go for it. 



> David Ladd <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > it is new to me, I don't hate anyone, I just don't understand why you stay here if you dislike the email list so much. I have never met Jack (or you, or anyone else on this forum) but it is clear he is doing some great things. I also know his way of doing it irritates me so I choose not to go to his site. I don't care if others do or do not, it's really none of my business.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

?? All I said is that *I* find it irritating. I don't think that qual=
ifies as hating on someone, but I could be wrong I guess. I think you ar=
e being a bit overly sensitive.



________________________________
From: The Battery Shop <[email protected]>
To: David Ladd <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev=
@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

If the show irritates you then why add your opinion? You should keep your c=
omments to yourself. By expressing your negative opinion is hating! =


But, I am sure the "attack squad" will now jump into full gear and attack m=
e. I can care less if I get banned, so go for it. =




> David Ladd <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > it is new to me, I don't hate anyone, I just don't understand why you sta=
> y here if you dislike the email list so much. I have never met Jack (or =
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Wow, did not expect my comment to escalate to this level. I do not find nor
have I found this site to be a waste of time. It has been a good source of
information but during the past year it has degraded to more of a chat room
of sorts vs actual hands on helping showing and leading and learning. That
is the level I expect to see. I want to see new and exciting things
happening but mostly its talk. This was the only real place when I got into
electric cars that I could find. I got some good information but had to
struggle through quite a bit on my own. Learned a lot. I like the EVDL photo
album but wish it would get updated with every new addition as it's posted.
Not like 10 new posts 5 weeks from now. I'd also like to see folks more
actively showing and teaching. We teach but need more teaching. We need
video, photos, write-ups, troubleshooting, and all sorts of things. I know
there is enough building happening and enough having troubles that it is not
so slow that this place would be a chat room about useless junk. I'd love to
see more about racing applications and less about who's is bigger sort of
testosterone spraying. Leave that for the track. Let the race prove the
better car. But that has been banned. Oh well. I'd like to see more of the
projects folks have. I know that the Sunrise project is out there but so
little about it has been shown that it is more or less non existent. Too
bad. DIY is becoming like this and Thundersky battery forum is just dead. I
stay here and read in hopes of gleaning some tid bit of information that may
prove useful. I watch EVTV because it is something I can do. It is far
better than reading whats here or on DIY. Slow, sure, but thats what its
about. It is about shop talk not about what you'd expect to see on TV like
Reverend Gadget or Those other shows. EVTV is not that. It is about testing,
showing and talking. It's about the people who put there money where there
mouth is. More of this is needed. Join in if you would. It really is not
such a bad place. It is however a place where you won't get much support for
lead acid. 

So I also still stand on moving forward and not staying in the past. Lead
got us to where we are today but tomorrow is going to need more. It will
need more innovation and money. Better products and more builds. It is
growing out of the back yard garages and we must move along with that. Its
fine to build an EV with lead if you don't mind short drives and heavy as
hell cars or replacing batteries every couple years. A few hypermiller types
may have been able to get 5 or so years but if your only need is 5 miles
total daily then I say lead is fine. But many drive further than 30 miles
and faster than 30 mph. We need cars to support the masses and promote
those. Lead is out of that league. I drive at 65 mph daily and drive 45
miles. I want electric and I want to drive like I have always driven. I can
and I do. Lithium gives me that ability. I purchased a Leaf and it fits my
needs nicely. I'd like a little larger pack but otherwise its right on the
money. 

I am not rich but have no trouble spending money if needed. I started my
first build as a low budget build to see if I could build one. I did for
$3600 bucks and it was a good build. Lead acid heavy tank but it was fun for
awhile. I needed range. I could fit no more in the little car and at best
got 20 miles at 55 mph. Ugg. I did however build it that way because if I
found I did not like electric I would not have spent $20,000 on a lead sled
that would not get used and impossible to sell. I am quite sure many of the
2500 or so cars on the EVDL photo album pages are just sitting unused due to
not being able to go the distance. A few do drive them daily. No offense to
you guys but its time to move along or move aside. Support the efforts of
those who are promoting new and getting away from the old. 

I will continue to remain until I see that no further useful information is
being published. If one must do lead so be it but show that its not as cheap
as it may look on the surface. Show what price must be paid to retain lead.
NIMH is dead because of little support for proper chargers. Same for NICAD.
Lead is easy and cheap on the surface but in the long run it's not at all. 

I am interested in what irritates you about what Jack Rickard does? Is it
that he takes no crap and says exactly what needs to be said? You know, many
folks hate that. They want to pacify things and he won't. He's a nice guy
but says his piece. Like it or not its the truth. This is one attribute I
find I like. NO BS. The show is his show, like it or not. Too bad you don't
like it. Better than watching the next rerun of Sienfield or ............... 

Hope you all decide to join the club. Your club has been good. But the key
word is has been. Its pretty boring around here most of the time anymore
unless someone spikes the punch. Looks like someone got some spiked punch
today. Oooops. 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3888802.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

What makes supposedly thoughtful people dwell so keenly on their 
differences, rather than on what binds them in common? 

I'm sorely tempted to make a political comment here. Contemporary issues all 
over the world illustrate this with brilliant clarity, for those who have 
their eyes open. But I'll just limit myself to a simple axiom : no matter 
what the cause, sooner or later victory comes to those who stick together, 
set aside their differences, and gather their voices into one. Winning is 
not for those who squabble among one another. It stems from teamwork.

We are nearly 1900 strong here. Together we can accomplish much for the EV 
cause. No matter whether you're young or old, rich or poor, veteran or 
newbie, AC or DC, lithium or lead, top-balancing or bottom-balancing, you 
have something to offer. Rather than drawing lines on the floor, let's 
celebrate that and all pull in the same direction.

===== =====

There is a war between the rich and poor,
a war between the man and the woman.
There is a war between the ones who say there is a war
and the ones who say there isn't.

Why don't you come on back to the war, that's right, get in it.
Why don't you come on back to the war, it's just beginning.

*****

There is a war between the left and right,
a war between the black and white,
a war between the odd and the even.

Why don't you come on back to the war, pick up your tiny burden.
Why don't you come on back to the war, let's all get even.
Why don't you come on back to the war, can't you hear me speaking? 

-- Leonard Cohen, "There is a War," from "New Skin for the Old Ceremony"

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Dear Mister Battery Shop,

Are you trying to lure me into your battery shop with your vents on this
list?
By your own definition, you are to this list what you accuse David Ladd
of.
(my preference is to not repeat that word, it has been said often enough
today)

You claim that you have all the right in the world to say whatever you
like
on this list and in the next sentence you start telling everyone else
what
they should be doing according to you; this means that you claim freedom
for yourself and limit it for everyone else.
Then you are saying that you are surprised that you get forceful
feedback?

I suggest a good hard long look in the mirror.
Nothing personal, just an observation.
Let's go back to EV building and promotion.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> gottdi wrote:
> > struggle through quite a bit on my own. Learned a lot. I like the EVDL photo
> > album but wish it would get updated with every new addition as it's posted.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Willie,

I always figured it was part of EVDL but a side thing so every one could put
up their cars for all to see. 

My first is still up: http://www.evalbum.com/1412
My second was a 77 MG Midget that was converted by another and I upgraded it
and the new owner now has it upgraded even further. It now lives in
Colorado. Not sure if he is going to post the photos. 
My photo album. I sold it with no controller or batteries. I still have the
controller and batteries. 
http://onegreenev.com/ElectricMG/Welcome.html

My Blog: http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
More:
http://greenev.zapto.org/GreenEV/GreenEV/GreenEV_Productions_Photo_Albums/GreenEV_Productions_Photo_Albums.html

http://greenev.zapto.org/electricvw

I have a 67 VW Bus in the works and a Buggy in the works. They will both be
Lithium powered and the buggy will be built for the drags. I have no
experience with drag racing except that my wife wants to drive and I want to
build and be pit crew. We love watching drags, now we want to participate.
This has been in the works for a year. 

We decided to also convert our old 64 Correct Craft Boat to all electric.
That will come later this year. 

Pete 

I also own a Nissan Leaf. Been driving it daily since June and we have a 7.2
KW solar on our home with 6 KW system coming to add to our current system to
cover the cost of the extra electricity needed. 

We are not rich nor poor. We came up in the ranks from the bottom. 

I went back to school and became an Xray/CT Tech and work at a local
hospital. Wife is a Nurse. We have no debt except our home and the Leaf. We
paid all our debts off years ago. NO debt is our key. 

New and exciting things are coming. Stay Tuned. 

I have a bunch of youtube videos. Search gottdi and you will find them. 



-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3888892.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Ron,
This has been a pretty good list for many years, but there are some trolls that 
pass by that try to take over the forum. Ron, move along, if you don't like the 
list don't read it! I really don't understand the motivation of people like you 
that try to commander a list and proclaim they should think like you!
You have created a pretty impressive vehicle Ron!, no complaints there. I think 
the bottom line is to be civil and realize there are others who don't think like 
you!


----- Original Message ----
From: The Battery Shop <[email protected]>
To: David Ladd <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, October 9, 2011 5:27:29 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

This may be new to you, but this is a free Country and I do have the right to 
post any where that is considered a public forum. I have never met a crowd of 
people that jump so easy to attack the next guy until I started reading on EV 
forums. The keyboard attack squads need to stop, we know where that originate, 
Mr. Roden needs to "punish" all that violate the rules, not just one side. Now 
leave Jack alone, he is a very honorable gentleman that earned his money from 
hard work! Stop hating someone successful. 






> David Ladd <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > It seems like you've already declared this the list of 'haters who are stuck in
> >the past'. Doesn't Jack have a forum? you can hang out there and declare it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Rod,

It's not about me, this thread is about justice for Jack and EVTV. Stop trying to always make us look like the bad guys, negative comments were posted about Jack, he is a friend, I defended his show. Did you not read how it started?

Ron

Sent from my iPhone



> Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Ron,
> > This has been a pretty good list for many years, but there are some trolls that
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> [email protected] wrote:
> But Lee, you are a WEALTH of information.
> 
> To me that's PRICELESS.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

The information from Lee has been priceless but what new things are coming
from here? Much of the old stuff is For Old Stuff. It is the truth. I can
build an EV with old stuff or a new car with old stuff but it will still be
old stuff. The information is still good for educational purposes but the
new is going to overtake the old. If you remain in the OLD it will go by the
way side. Keep the information up to date. I can take this a bit further by
saying the Old computer information I have learned from is priceless but its
not current nor relative to todays needs. It is OLD. It is dead. My OLD
computer still works. I have advanced along with the computers. So must the
Electric car movement. Maybe use the old to do some basic learning but be
ready to move into the more modern. Motors, controllers, batteries and
components are changing and are being purpose built for the modern
conversions. Times are moving forward. You gonna be part of that or are you
just gonna hold on to the bitter end and fade away holding fast to the old.
We do remember the OLD ways. Some of the old is still useful but its going
away. Be ready. Stay Tuned. 

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3889109.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

Pete,

If you listen carefully then you will hear all the EVDL'ers who have
converted using Lithium in the past few years
and who are reporting their experience with it, with or without BMS.
Jack is a very vocal person, but certainly not the only converter using
and reporting about how they use Lithium and what they do to stay safe,
what worked and what not and how they are doing with their pack,
racking up the miles faster than they would with lead.
You may even be surprised if you look careful at Lee's
statements about Lithium, that he really wants to use it
and has been testing it for years, just like he has lead.
But it is the fact that all his spendable money goes into
the Sunrise 2, so he can't afford a Lithium pack, besides
the fact that he sees claims of very long lifetime, while
none of the chemistries have been out long enough to prove
that lifetime, or they have been changed in the mean time
so it is hard to get a datapoint on the actual lifetime.
It looks like Lithium is doing well and every year the
confidence grows.
But early on some people invested a lot of money and
got burned badly, so I don't blame Lee for his due diligence.
At this moment just about everyone who plans an EV
wants to use Lithium, if they can afford it.
There are many advances in the EV field.
So much that I fear to miss several of them because the
sheer number and the places where they are discussed are
increasing rapidly, one reason why I am happy with
Bruce's efforts of collecting all the EV news.

BTW, the reason NiMH is dead is not lack of chargers
but the stranglehold of a patent holder controlled
by an oil company. It has been discussed here in the
past, but maybe before your arrival. NiMH is very viable
in many applications, but EV sized cells are not affordable
because there are so few license holders that they essentially 
have a monopoly with complementing price levels.
That is also why the Hybrids have <10Ah battery packs as the
limit of the NiMH licenses to all other manufacturers is 10Ah.

Anyway, there are already many variants of Lithium out there
and I still see rapid advances, mainly for racing application.
I met Derek Barger a couple weeks ago and he showed me the
packs he makes for the fastest EVs. Unbelievable low internal
resistance and neither charging nor discharging caused any heat 
in the cells he is using with power levels up there with A123
but different chemistry...
This field is moving fast and expanding rapidly, so I feel
your need to stay ahead and lose the lead batteries.
But do not throw out the baby with the bath water!
There is still a lot of truth in what you call "old", because
it does not rely on the cell chemistry but on laws of Physics,
or on taking caution because people have been burned with it
in the past. Of course you are free to ignore good advice.
Wise men learn from other people's mistakes. The rest has to repeat
them.

I will stay on the EVDL and learn and even contribute where I can.
Soon I hope to also have experience with Lithium, I actually
have interesting plans to build appliances with Lithium packs
but I have not found time to work on them.
I will definitely include a Battery Monitoring System on them
but not down to cell level - more in the way that the Prius
is monitoring its pack.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of gottdi
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 8:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

The information from Lee has been priceless but what new things are
coming from here? Much of the old stuff is For Old Stuff. It is the
truth. I can build an EV with old stuff or a new car with old stuff but
it will still be old stuff. The information is still good for
educational purposes but the new is going to overtake the old. If you
remain in the OLD it will go by the way side. Keep the information up to
date. I can take this a bit further by saying the Old computer
information I have learned from is priceless but its not current nor
relative to todays needs. It is OLD. It is dead. My OLD computer still
works. I have advanced along with the computers. So must the Electric
car movement. Maybe use the old to do some basic learning but be ready
to move into the more modern. Motors, controllers, batteries and
components are changing and are being purpose built for the modern
conversions. Times are moving forward. You gonna be part of that or are
you just gonna hold on to the bitter end and fade away holding fast to
the old.
We do remember the OLD ways. Some of the old is still useful but its
going away. Be ready. Stay Tuned. 

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-E
pisode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3889109.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

I don't think that is quite fair. Lee is a wealth of information on all
sorts of electronic questions. In case you haven't noticed, I'm running a
conversion with Thundersky LiFePO4 cells. There are some around here.
(http://www.evalbum.com/2778). Even if you're running Lithium cells, you
still wonder how to isolate your digital ammeter from the pack voltage so
you don't blow it up. Lee had a great circuit for capacitive decoupling the
meter from the high-voltage of the battery pack. It doesn't matter whether
your pack is lithium or lead. Either way, 144V potential on the input to
your meter is likely to blow it up!

There are some differences and questions on balancing cells (top or bottom)
and whether charging protocols need to be adjusted. However, either way,
you're probably feeding current into a DC series or AC motor. There is lots
more that is common than is different.

Mike


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of gottdi
> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 9:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....
> 
> The information from Lee has been priceless but what new things are coming
> from here? Much of the old stuff is For Old Stuff. It is the truth. I can
build an
> EV with old stuff or a new car with old stuff but it will still be old
stuff. The
> information is still good for educational purposes but the new is going to
> overtake the old. If you remain in the OLD it will go by the way side.
Keep the
> information up to date. I can take this a bit further by saying the Old
> computer information I have learned from is priceless but its not current
nor
> relative to todays needs. It is OLD. It is dead. My OLD computer still
works. I
> have advanced along with the computers. So must the Electric car
> movement. Maybe use the old to do some basic learning but be ready to
> move into the more modern. Motors, controllers, batteries and components
> are changing and are being purpose built for the modern conversions. Times
> are moving forward. You gonna be part of that or are you just gonna hold
on
> to the bitter end and fade away holding fast to the old.
> We do remember the OLD ways. Some of the old is still useful but its going
> away. Be ready. Stay Tuned.
> 
> Pete 
> 
> -----
> If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
> list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-
> tp3880981p3889109.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

This does remind me of a question I've had in the past:

I have some information (such as an owner's manual I've written for my
conversion, schematic, background on electrical wiring, etc). Is there a
place to post documents like this for the EVDL so they can be referenced for
posterity?

I think this would be helpful. I bet it already exists, and I just don't
know how to get there.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of gottdi
> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 6:13 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....
> 
> Wow, did not expect my comment to escalate to this level. I do not find
nor
> have I found this site to be a waste of time. It has been a good source of
> information but during the past year it has degraded to more of a chat
room
> of sorts vs actual hands on helping showing and leading and learning. That
is
> the level I expect to see. I want to see new and exciting things happening
but
> mostly its talk. This was the only real place when I got into electric
cars that I
> could find. I got some good information but had to struggle through quite
a
> bit on my own. Learned a lot. I like the EVDL photo album but wish it
would
> get updated with every new addition as it's posted.
> Not like 10 new posts 5 weeks from now. I'd also like to see folks more
> actively showing and teaching. We teach but need more teaching. We need
> video, photos, write-ups, troubleshooting, and all sorts of things. I know
> there is enough building happening and enough having troubles that it is
not
> so slow that this place would be a chat room about useless junk. I'd love
to
> see more about racing applications and less about who's is bigger sort of
> testosterone spraying. Leave that for the track. Let the race prove the
better ...

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> On 10 Oct 2011 at 1:10, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> 
> > I have some information (such as an owner's manual I've written for my
> > conversion, schematic, background on electrical wiring, etc). Is there a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

There's no better place than EVDL to keep up with the bleeding edge of
lithium technologies. From Bruce's posts of various articles on the current
research to the posts people make about their bench tests and usages, it's
here, including who to order from and who has fulfillment problems. I'd
wager that 90% of the battery discussions on this list are lithium.

Same goes for chargers.

Motors are, perhaps, lagging. AC motors are still pretty expensive, so a
lot of people are still buying DC stuff and posting questions here. That's
fine with me. In the longer run, public acceptance of EVs will depend on AC
motors. I have a suspicion that we could get more reports of AC conversions
as alluded to by anecdotal messages from time to time. You guys who have
done (or have had done) AC conversions, post your experiences!

Peri


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Cor van de Water
Sent: 09 October, 2011 10:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

Pete,

If you listen carefully then you will hear all the EVDL'ers who have
converted using Lithium in the past few years and who are reporting their
experience with it, with or without BMS.
Jack is a very vocal person, but certainly not the only converter using and
reporting about how they use Lithium and what they do to stay safe, what
worked and what not and how they are doing with their pack, racking up the
miles faster than they would with lead.
You may even be surprised if you look careful at Lee's statements about
Lithium, that he really wants to use it and has been testing it for years,
just like he has lead.
But it is the fact that all his spendable money goes into the Sunrise 2, so
he can't afford a Lithium pack, besides the fact that he sees claims of very
long lifetime, while none of the chemistries have been out long enough to
prove that lifetime, or they have been changed in the mean time so it is
hard to get a datapoint on the actual lifetime.
It looks like Lithium is doing well and every year the confidence grows.
But early on some people invested a lot of money and got burned badly, so I
don't blame Lee for his due diligence.
At this moment just about everyone who plans an EV wants to use Lithium, if
they can afford it.
There are many advances in the EV field.
So much that I fear to miss several of them because the sheer number and the
places where they are discussed are increasing rapidly, one reason why I am
happy with Bruce's efforts of collecting all the EV news.

BTW, the reason NiMH is dead is not lack of chargers but the stranglehold of
a patent holder controlled by an oil company. It has been discussed here in
the past, but maybe before your arrival. NiMH is very viable in many
applications, but EV sized cells are not affordable because there are so few
license holders that they essentially have a monopoly with complementing
price levels.
That is also why the Hybrids have <10Ah battery packs as the limit of the
NiMH licenses to all other manufacturers is 10Ah.

Anyway, there are already many variants of Lithium out there and I still see
rapid advances, mainly for racing application.
I met Derek Barger a couple weeks ago and he showed me the packs he makes
for the fastest EVs. Unbelievable low internal resistance and neither
charging nor discharging caused any heat in the cells he is using with power
levels up there with A123 but different chemistry...
This field is moving fast and expanding rapidly, so I feel your need to stay
ahead and lose the lead batteries.
But do not throw out the baby with the bath water!
There is still a lot of truth in what you call "old", because it does not
rely on the cell chemistry but on laws of Physics, or on taking caution
because people have been burned with it in the past. Of course you are free
to ignore good advice.
Wise men learn from other people's mistakes. The rest has to repeat them.

I will stay on the EVDL and learn and even contribute where I can.
Soon I hope to also have experience with Lithium, I actually have
interesting plans to build appliances with Lithium packs but I have not
found time to work on them.
I will definitely include a Battery Monitoring System on them but not down
to cell level - more in the way that the Prius is monitoring its pack.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of gottdi
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 8:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....

The information from Lee has been priceless but what new things are coming
from here? Much of the old stuff is For Old Stuff. It is the truth. I can
build an EV with old stuff or a new car with old stuff but it will still be
old stuff. The information is still good for educational purposes but the
new is going to overtake the old. If you remain in the OLD it will go by the
way side. Keep the information up to date. I can take this a bit further by
saying the Old computer information I have learned from is priceless but its
not current nor relative to todays needs. It is OLD. It is dead. My OLD
computer still works. I have advanced along with the computers. So must the
Electric car movement. Maybe use the old to do some basic learning but be
ready to move into the more modern. Motors, controllers, batteries and
components are changing and are being purpose built for the modern
conversions. Times are moving forward. You gonna be part of that or are you
just gonna hold on to the bitter end and fade away holding fast to the old.
We do remember the OLD ways. Some of the old is still useful but its going
away. Be ready. Stay Tuned. 

Pete 

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. 
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-E
pisode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3889109.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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|
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

> Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:25:53 -0700
> From: [email protected]

> We do remember the OLD ways. Some of the old is still useful but its going
> away. Be ready. Stay Tuned. =

> =

> Pete 
> =



Well..no? Many times we did NOT remember,,or did not even know about "the o=
ld ways" and might repeat or make new stupid misstakes.

So, many many thanx to Lee and others for sharing the good id=E9as and know=
ledge. =


We DO use it in NEW designs also. 

// John
Sweden
=

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3891677.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Latest-Episode-of-EVTV-Here-is-the-link-tp3880981p3891679.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Latest Episode of EVTV Here is the link....*



> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > In the longer run, public acceptance of EVs will depend on AC
> > motors.
> ...


----------

