# [EVDL] Electric EVette



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I still don't see how that steering arrangement can be safe. If you are
driving at say 30 mph in traffic and you have to stop suddenly, you will be
applying brakes to your rear wheels. If you need to steer at that point you
will apply different amounts of brake pressure to your right and left
wheels.

This works very well as long as you have enough traction on both wheels.
What if one of the wheels is driving on wet pavement or sandy pavement as is
often found on the right side of the road.

Your braking on the left wheel will pull the car to the left (possibly
into oncoming traffic)and the slipping right wheel will not have enough
traction to overcome.

The driver will have to compensate by releasing the left brake which is
the only one with traction and will be totally dependant on the limited
traction of the right wheel to try to straighten out the car.

I like the overall style of the car but as I see it, the steering
mechanism needs to be rethought. Or am I missing something here?

Jim


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
To: "ev list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:43 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette


> Hi everyone,
>
> Thanks for your positive input, for those of you who were. I think
lithium battreies would be great in this car, and the car can hold a lot of
batteries. As for speed, the car can hold 2 11 inch dc motors that, and
two zilla 2k controlers(do the math) if I put them in the car,could rip the
tires off the car, but that would be to much for most people. The
maneuverability of this car is so much better than a conventional car its
amusing. Let me also remind you this car is not like any three wheeler you
have ever seen, even at higher speeds it turns quicker that a conventional
car, it also has a very low center of gravity. A writer from the Palm Beach
Post I gave a ride once wrote, gut wrenching turns. I will also remind you
this car is easy and fun to drive.
> Harry Grepke, my good friend and mentor on this project, invented the
first hybrid turbine electric car over 30years ago. He was on the cover of
Popular Science, he approached Detroit with it ,but they wouldn`t get off
the dime. I don`t think its any different now. All steering and braking is
done by the rear wheels, if the electronic steering fails,and it has once or
twice, the car is easily steered by left and right hydraulic brake, as for
traction have you seen the size of those tires?
>
> TomSines
>
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jim,

When Henry Ford first drove his car in public, I`ll bet people rode by in their horse and buggys, and said why is that man turning that wheel and pushing those pedals when he could just use the reins. On the matter of control, the EVette has instant reverse on each wheel, and electronic plug braking which ice cars don`t have, not to mention inertia. I think control is much better than an ice car.

Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim L <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 8, 2007 2:01 PM
>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
>
> I still don't see how that steering arrangement can be safe. If you are
>driving at say 30 mph in traffic and you have to stop suddenly, you will be
>applying brakes to your rear wheels. If you need to steer at that point you
>will apply different amounts of brake pressure to your right and left
>wheels.
>
> This works very well as long as you have enough traction on both wheels.
>What if one of the wheels is driving on wet pavement or sandy pavement as is
>often found on the right side of the road.
>
> Your braking on the left wheel will pull the car to the left (possibly
>into oncoming traffic)and the slipping right wheel will not have enough
>traction to overcome.
>
> The driver will have to compensate by releasing the left brake which is
>the only one with traction and will be totally dependant on the limited
>traction of the right wheel to try to straighten out the car.
>
> I like the overall style of the car but as I see it, the steering
>mechanism needs to be rethought. Or am I missing something here?
>
>Jim
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>To: "ev list" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:43 AM
>Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette
>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Thanks for your positive input, for those of you who were. I think
>lithium battreies would be great in this car, and the car can hold a lot of
>batteries. As for speed, the car can hold 2 11 inch dc motors that, and
>two zilla 2k controlers(do the math) if I put them in the car,could rip the
>tires off the car, but that would be to much for most people. The
>maneuverability of this car is so much better than a conventional car its
>amusing. Let me also remind you this car is not like any three wheeler you
>have ever seen, even at higher speeds it turns quicker that a conventional
>car, it also has a very low center of gravity. A writer from the Palm Beach
>Post I gave a ride once wrote, gut wrenching turns. I will also remind you
>this car is easy and fun to drive.
>> Harry Grepke, my good friend and mentor on this project, invented the
>first hybrid turbine electric car over 30years ago. He was on the cover of
>Popular Science, he approached Detroit with it ,but they wouldn`t get off
>the dime. I don`t think its any different now. All steering and braking is
>done by the rear wheels, if the electronic steering fails,and it has once or
>twice, the car is easily steered by left and right hydraulic brake, as for
>traction have you seen the size of those tires?
>>
>> TomSines
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'll try once more. Why won't you answer my question. What does Henry Ford
have to do with anything. I am not trying to antagonize you or criticize
your vehicle, but the last thing the doit yourself auto enthuiast needs is
to have an accident that can be traced to an improper design.
You may have a perfectly good design there, all I am asking for is to
explain how you have addressed this problem of control when things(traction)
aren't optimal. In the example I made earlier, applying reverse to the right
wheel would not help the situation as the wheel already has lost traction.
Test this out with your vehicle. Take it to a local parking lot and spread
some water on one side of your test lane. Then approach at speed with your
right side in the wet and your left side on the dry and see if you can make
an emergency stop while maintaining control.

As for the fact that Florida has licensed this vehicle. I do not know the
process that Florida requires for registration of a homebuilt vehicle, But I
assume that it is licensed as a motorcycle. It is my understanding that
motorcycles don't need to meet as stringent requirements as a car or truck
would.
I actually like that as it makes it possible for us all to make a vehicle of
our own and get to drive it. However, it would likely only take one
unfortunate accident that could be traced to faulty design to put a stop to
all of this.

respectfully, Jim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette


> Hi Jim,
>
> When Henry Ford first drove his car in public, I`ll bet people rode by in
their horse and buggys, and said why is that man turning that wheel and
pushing those pedals when he could just use the reins. On the matter of
control, the EVette has instant reverse on each wheel, and electronic plug
braking which ice cars don`t have, not to mention inertia. I think control
is much better than an ice car.
>
> Tom Sines
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Jim L <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Oct 8, 2007 2:01 PM
> >To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> >
> > I still don't see how that steering arrangement can be safe. If you
are
> >driving at say 30 mph in traffic and you have to stop suddenly, you will
be
> >applying brakes to your rear wheels. If you need to steer at that point
you
> >will apply different amounts of brake pressure to your right and left
> >wheels.
> >
> > This works very well as long as you have enough traction on both
wheels.
> >What if one of the wheels is driving on wet pavement or sandy pavement as
is
> >often found on the right side of the road.
> >
> > Your braking on the left wheel will pull the car to the left
(possibly
> >into oncoming traffic)and the slipping right wheel will not have enough
> >traction to overcome.
> >
> > The driver will have to compensate by releasing the left brake which
is
> >the only one with traction and will be totally dependant on the limited
> >traction of the right wheel to try to straighten out the car.
> >
> > I like the overall style of the car but as I see it, the steering
> >mechanism needs to be rethought. Or am I missing something here?
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
> >To: "ev list" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:43 AM
> >Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> >
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your positive input, for those of you who were. I think
> >lithium battreies would be great in this car, and the car can hold a lot
of
> >batteries. As for speed, the car can hold 2 11 inch dc motors that, and
> >two zilla 2k controlers(do the math) if I put them in the car,could rip
the
> >tires off the car, but that would be to much for most people. The
> >maneuverability of this car is so much better than a conventional car its
> >amusing. Let me also remind you this car is not like any three wheeler
you
> >have ever seen, even at higher speeds it turns quicker that a
conventional
> >car, it also has a very low center of gravity. A writer from the Palm
Beach
> >Post I gave a ride once wrote, gut wrenching turns. I will also remind
you
> >this car is easy and fun to drive.
> >> Harry Grepke, my good friend and mentor on this project, invented the
> >first hybrid turbine electric car over 30years ago. He was on the cover
of
> >Popular Science, he approached Detroit with it ,but they wouldn`t get
off
> >the dime. I don`t think its any different now. All steering and braking
is
> >done by the rear wheels, if the electronic steering fails,and it has once
or
> >twice, the car is easily steered by left and right hydraulic brake, as
for
> >traction have you seen the size of those tires?
> >>
> >> TomSines
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> PeoplePC Online
> >> A better way to Internet
> >> http://www.peoplepc.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

hi Jim,

It does not make a difference if it is a dedicated 3-wheel EV
or a regular series-produced motor cycle,
if it loses traction on one wheel in an emergency stop, or even
in a corner on the road, you are down. Period.

Oil slicks in curves are the nightmare of any motor cyclist.
There is a reson that Evette is registered as a motor cycle
and you can expect a comparable level of safety, this should
be clear to the driver and to any (future) buyer.

Indeed, expecting 4-wheel safety level from a motor cycle
would be stretching the possibilities of the design, IMO. 

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim L
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:30 PM
To: Tom S.; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette

I'll try once more. Why won't you answer my question. What does Henry Ford have to do with anything. I am not trying to antagonize you or criticize your vehicle, but the last thing the doit yourself auto enthuiast needs is to have an accident that can be traced to an improper design.
You may have a perfectly good design there, all I am asking for is to explain how you have addressed this problem of control when things(traction) aren't optimal. In the example I made earlier, applying reverse to the right wheel would not help the situation as the wheel already has lost traction.
Test this out with your vehicle. Take it to a local parking lot and spread some water on one side of your test lane. Then approach at speed with your right side in the wet and your left side on the dry and see if you can make an emergency stop while maintaining control.

As for the fact that Florida has licensed this vehicle. I do not know the process that Florida requires for registration of a homebuilt vehicle, But I assume that it is licensed as a motorcycle. It is my understanding that motorcycles don't need to meet as stringent requirements as a car or truck would.
I actually like that as it makes it possible for us all to make a vehicle of our own and get to drive it. However, it would likely only take one unfortunate accident that could be traced to faulty design to put a stop to all of this.

respectfully, Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette


> Hi Jim,
>
> When Henry Ford first drove his car in public, I`ll bet people rode by in
their horse and buggys, and said why is that man turning that wheel and
pushing those pedals when he could just use the reins. On the matter of
control, the EVette has instant reverse on each wheel, and electronic plug
braking which ice cars don`t have, not to mention inertia. I think control
is much better than an ice car.
>
> Tom Sines
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Jim L <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Oct 8, 2007 2:01 PM
> >To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> >
> > I still don't see how that steering arrangement can be safe. If you
are
> >driving at say 30 mph in traffic and you have to stop suddenly, you will
be
> >applying brakes to your rear wheels. If you need to steer at that point
you
> >will apply different amounts of brake pressure to your right and left
> >wheels.
> >
> > This works very well as long as you have enough traction on both
wheels.
> >What if one of the wheels is driving on wet pavement or sandy pavement as
is
> >often found on the right side of the road.
> >
> > Your braking on the left wheel will pull the car to the left
(possibly
> >into oncoming traffic)and the slipping right wheel will not have enough
> >traction to overcome.
> >
> > The driver will have to compensate by releasing the left brake which
is
> >the only one with traction and will be totally dependant on the limited
> >traction of the right wheel to try to straighten out the car.
> >
> > I like the overall style of the car but as I see it, the steering
> >mechanism needs to be rethought. Or am I missing something here?
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
> >To: "ev list" <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:43 AM
> >Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> >
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your positive input, for those of you who were. I think
> >lithium battreies would be great in this car, and the car can hold a lot
of
> >batteries. As for speed, the car can hold 2 11 inch dc motors that, and
> >two zilla 2k controlers(do the math) if I put them in the car,could rip
the
> >tires off the car, but that would be to much for most people. The
> >maneuverability of this car is so much better than a conventional car its
> >amusing. Let me also remind you this car is not like any three wheeler
you
> >have ever seen, even at higher speeds it turns quicker that a
conventional
> >car, it also has a very low center of gravity. A writer from the Palm
Beach
> >Post I gave a ride once wrote, gut wrenching turns. I will also remind
you
> >this car is easy and fun to drive.
> >> Harry Grepke, my good friend and mentor on this project, invented the
> >first hybrid turbine electric car over 30years ago. He was on the cover
of
> >Popular Science, he approached Detroit with it ,but they wouldn`t get
off
> >the dime. I don`t think its any different now. All steering and braking
is
> >done by the rear wheels, if the electronic steering fails,and it has once
or
> >twice, the car is easily steered by left and right hydraulic brake, as
for
> >traction have you seen the size of those tires?
> >>
> >> TomSines
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> PeoplePC Online
> >> A better way to Internet
> >> http://www.peoplepc.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In a normal three wheel vehicle you have separate steering via two wheels at
the front of the vehicle and drive the rear wheel. This a good effective
design.
In a trike style 3 wheeler, you would normally steer with the front wheel
and drive with the rear. Not as good a design, but with proper tire sizing
and weight distribution it would be okay.
With the caster on the front of this design, you have no control over
direction if one of your rear wheels loses traction.
The driver is more than welcome to take the risk of losing control on a
motorcycle, but you are talking about a few hundred pounds of vehicle versus
in excess of 2000 lbs with this vehicle. Everyone around it did not agree to
that risk.
The thing that really worries me is that the failure mode of this style
would likely be so fast that the driver and anyone near him would be unable
to react fast enough.
A motor cycle that loses it, tends to continue in the direction it was
travelling. This vehicle would take a sudden left or right turn at speed.
What if this happened in front of a school?
I am sorry if I am beating a dead horse as nobody else seems to see the
danger here.
The drive by wire and differential steering are fine but in my opinion, this
design should have driver control over the front caster to help control
direction in the event of a rear tire loss of traction.
Jim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette


> hi Jim,
>
> It does not make a difference if it is a dedicated 3-wheel EV
> or a regular series-produced motor cycle,
> if it loses traction on one wheel in an emergency stop, or even
> in a corner on the road, you are down. Period.
>
> Oil slicks in curves are the nightmare of any motor cyclist.
> There is a reson that Evette is registered as a motor cycle
> and you can expect a comparable level of safety, this should
> be clear to the driver and to any (future) buyer.
>
> Indeed, expecting 4-wheel safety level from a motor cycle
> would be stretching the possibilities of the design, IMO.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jim L
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:30 PM
> To: Tom S.; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
>
> I'll try once more. Why won't you answer my question. What does Henry Ford
have to do with anything. I am not trying to antagonize you or criticize
your vehicle, but the last thing the doit yourself auto enthuiast needs is
to have an accident that can be traced to an improper design.
> You may have a perfectly good design there, all I am asking for is to
explain how you have addressed this problem of control when things(traction)
aren't optimal. In the example I made earlier, applying reverse to the right
wheel would not help the situation as the wheel already has lost traction.
> Test this out with your vehicle. Take it to a local parking lot and spread
some water on one side of your test lane. Then approach at speed with your
right side in the wet and your left side on the dry and see if you can make
an emergency stop while maintaining control.
>
> As for the fact that Florida has licensed this vehicle. I do not know the
process that Florida requires for registration of a homebuilt vehicle, But I
assume that it is licensed as a motorcycle. It is my understanding that
motorcycles don't need to meet as stringent requirements as a car or truck
would.
> I actually like that as it makes it possible for us all to make a vehicle
of our own and get to drive it. However, it would likely only take one
unfortunate accident that could be traced to faulty design to put a stop to
all of this.
>
> respectfully, Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
>
>
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > When Henry Ford first drove his car in public, I`ll bet people rode by
in
> their horse and buggys, and said why is that man turning that wheel and
> pushing those pedals when he could just use the reins. On the matter of
> control, the EVette has instant reverse on each wheel, and electronic plug
> braking which ice cars don`t have, not to mention inertia. I think control
> is much better than an ice car.
> >
> > Tom Sines
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Jim L <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Oct 8, 2007 2:01 PM
> > >To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List
> <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> > >
> > > I still don't see how that steering arrangement can be safe. If you
> are
> > >driving at say 30 mph in traffic and you have to stop suddenly, you
will
> be
> > >applying brakes to your rear wheels. If you need to steer at that point
> you
> > >will apply different amounts of brake pressure to your right and left
> > >wheels.
> > >
> > > This works very well as long as you have enough traction on both
> wheels.
> > >What if one of the wheels is driving on wet pavement or sandy pavement
as
> is
> > >often found on the right side of the road.
> > >
> > > Your braking on the left wheel will pull the car to the left
> (possibly
> > >into oncoming traffic)and the slipping right wheel will not have enough
> > >traction to overcome.
> > >
> > > The driver will have to compensate by releasing the left brake
which
> is
> > >the only one with traction and will be totally dependant on the limited
> > >traction of the right wheel to try to straighten out the car.
> > >
> > > I like the overall style of the car but as I see it, the steering
> > >mechanism needs to be rethought. Or am I missing something here?
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message ----- 
> > >From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
> > >To: "ev list" <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:43 AM
> > >Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi everyone,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for your positive input, for those of you who were. I think
> > >lithium battreies would be great in this car, and the car can hold a
lot
> of
> > >batteries. As for speed, the car can hold 2 11 inch dc motors that,
and
> > >two zilla 2k controlers(do the math) if I put them in the car,could rip
> the
> > >tires off the car, but that would be to much for most people. The
> > >maneuverability of this car is so much better than a conventional car
its
> > >amusing. Let me also remind you this car is not like any three wheeler
> you
> > >have ever seen, even at higher speeds it turns quicker that a
> conventional
> > >car, it also has a very low center of gravity. A writer from the Palm
> Beach
> > >Post I gave a ride once wrote, gut wrenching turns. I will also remind
> you
> > >this car is easy and fun to drive.
> > >> Harry Grepke, my good friend and mentor on this project, invented
the
> > >first hybrid turbine electric car over 30years ago. He was on the cover
> of
> > >Popular Science, he approached Detroit with it ,but they wouldn`t get
> off
> > >the dime. I don`t think its any different now. All steering and
braking
> is
> > >done by the rear wheels, if the electronic steering fails,and it has
once
> or
> > >twice, the car is easily steered by left and right hydraulic brake, as
> for
> > >traction have you seen the size of those tires?
> > >>
> > >> TomSines
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________________
> > >> PeoplePC Online
> > >> A better way to Internet
> > >> http://www.peoplepc.com
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> For subscription options, see
> > >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >>
> > >
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi everyone,


My reference to Henry Ford was that people find new concepts hard to understand, I`ll try to make this a little clearer for you. First, I`ve been driving this car for decades,and as it turns out, the car holds the road really well. Also, the surface area of the tires that hit the road is much larger than a typical ev tire. Next, let me tell you about an ev event we went to on South Beach Miami. I did a 10 minute routine on the beach, the car drove on the sand easily, a conventional car wouldn`t dare try that. I live in Florida, it rains like crasy here, there can be large puddles if water on the road often, the car dosen`t seen to mind at all. By the way the little bounce the front wheel did in a turn on youtube, if you look close you might see a pothole.

Tom Sines

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Is EVette the only vehicle in the world with oversized rear wheels and a 
single
small caster in front? If there are others where can one read about them? 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi,

For those of you who would like to see the Electric EVette, we will be displaying and demonstrating the car at the Green Earth Expo in Orlando, FL, at the Orange County Convention Center, May 16 & 17. 
Trolls welcome too.

Tom Sines

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi,
We took the EVette To the Green Earth Expo in Orlando the car was a big hit, we also gave rides in the parking lot. They couldn`t get enough of the car. we even spun them around, they loved jt. Now let me make this clear. America is hurting, we need good inexpensive transportation, we have that car. Selling electric cars for high prices and low distance mostly helps the seller. Electric conversions generally weigh well over 3000lbs, the EVette weighs about 1500lbs, do the math! There are some electric cars that approach that weight, but they have no load capacity. the EVette can carry a large load. I know there are some pioneers on this list, maybe they would help, although I probably just stirred up the drolls.
Tom Sines

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

What price are you selling the EVette for, and what are the specs?

Z



> Tom S. <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > We took the EVette To the Green Earth Expo in Orlando the car was a big
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*



> Tom S. wrote:
> 
> > I know there are some pioneers on this list, maybe they would help,
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

What is a droll ? Maybe he meant troll. 

john
> I guess I must be a droll, then.
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Would a "Droll" be someone who makes witty remarks about requiring proof
before accepting extraordinary claims?

> What is a droll ? Maybe he meant troll. 
>
> john
>> I guess I must be a droll, then.
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

> What kind of help do you want? If you want us to help you sell the 
> Evette, you're going to have to sell it to *us* first.
>
> So, as Zeke said, "What price are you selling the EVette for, and 
> what are the specs?"

There is one other question: is it legal? He may have gotten his 
2-1/2-wheeler licensed, but it may not be so in any other state, and 
it may not even be legal in *his* state - other listees know the local 
DMV is only as strict as the person at the counter or the inspector 
looking at your car, but written laws may make the design moot.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi,
Yes it is street legal,its a motorcycle in Florida.
Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>Sent: May 28, 2008 1:34 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>
>> What kind of help do you want? If you want us to help you sell the 
>> Evette, you're going to have to sell it to *us* first.
>>
>> So, as Zeke said, "What price are you selling the EVette for, and 
>> what are the specs?"
>
>There is one other question: is it legal? He may have gotten his 
>2-1/2-wheeler licensed, but it may not be so in any other state, and 
>it may not even be legal in *his* state - other listees know the local 
>DMV is only as strict as the person at the counter or the inspector 
>looking at your car, but written laws may make the design moot.
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi Zeke,
I`m not selling anything yet.
Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
>Sent: May 28, 2008 10:57 AM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>
>What price are you selling the EVette for, and what are the specs?
>
>Z
>
>


> Tom S. <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> We took the EVette To the Green Earth Expo in Orlando the car was a big
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

We went round and round the pole on this vehicle several months ago. I may 
be remembering the situation incorrectly, but if memory serves, several list 
members wanted to see the car and proof that it did what the builder 
claimed. 

For some reason, Tom wouldn't or couldn't meet them halfway on it. The 
result was a great deal of speculation and accusation that the Evette either 
didn't exist or wasn't what it claimed to be, followed by a defensive 
posture from the builder. 

The discussion that followed took up a lot of list bandwidth and, in the 
end, pretty much accomplished nothing.

Let's not go through that again. 

For better and/or worse, Tom, the EVDL crowd tends to be a "show me" bunch. 
With all due respect, if you're not prepared to "put up the goods," then I 
think you'll get more traction if you promote your Evette somewhere else.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi David,
The car weighs about 1500lbs with 500lbs of batteries with lots of room for more batteries. Jim griffin the founder of the Green Earth Expo in Orlando Took a ride and a spin and he liked the car a lot, I think you should talk to him and see if I`m full of crap or not.
Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>Sent: May 28, 2008 4:59 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>
>We went round and round the pole on this vehicle several months ago. I may 
>be remembering the situation incorrectly, but if memory serves, several list 
>members wanted to see the car and proof that it did what the builder 
>claimed. 
>
>For some reason, Tom wouldn't or couldn't meet them halfway on it. The 
>result was a great deal of speculation and accusation that the Evette either 
>didn't exist or wasn't what it claimed to be, followed by a defensive 
>posture from the builder. 
>
>The discussion that followed took up a lot of list bandwidth and, in the 
>end, pretty much accomplished nothing.
>
>Let's not go through that again. 
>
>For better and/or worse, Tom, the EVDL crowd tends to be a "show me" bunch. 
>With all due respect, if you're not prepared to "put up the goods," then I 
>think you'll get more traction if you promote your Evette somewhere else.
>
>David Roden
>EVDL Administrator
>http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

I think the big issue is your claims that it goes over 200 miles on a
charge and that it handles better (at speed) than an ordinary car.


> Hi David,
> The car weighs about 1500lbs with 500lbs of batteries with lots of room
> for more batteries. Jim griffin the founder of the Green Earth Expo in
> Orlando Took a ride and a spin and he liked the car a lot, I think you
> should talk to him and see if I`m full of crap or not.
> Tom Sines
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>>Sent: May 28, 2008 4:59 PM
>>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>>
>>We went round and round the pole on this vehicle several months ago. I
>> may
>>be remembering the situation incorrectly, but if memory serves, several
>> list
>>members wanted to see the car and proof that it did what the builder
>>claimed.
>>
>>For some reason, Tom wouldn't or couldn't meet them halfway on it. The
>>result was a great deal of speculation and accusation that the Evette
>> either
>>didn't exist or wasn't what it claimed to be, followed by a defensive
>>posture from the builder.
>>
>>The discussion that followed took up a lot of list bandwidth and, in the
>>end, pretty much accomplished nothing.
>>
>>Let's not go through that again.
>>
>>For better and/or worse, Tom, the EVDL crowd tends to be a "show me"
>> bunch.
>>With all due respect, if you're not prepared to "put up the goods," then
>> I
>>think you'll get more traction if you promote your Evette somewhere else.
>>
>>David Roden
>>EVDL Administrator
>>http://www.evdl.org/
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi Cowtown, Tom and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:34:28 -0700

>> What kind of help do you want? If you want us to help
>> you sell the Evette, you're going to have to sell it to
>>*us* first. 
>> So, as Zeke said, "What price are you selling the EVette
>> for, and what are the specs?"

Tom is beyond help it seems. He has always afraid
someone would 'steal' his great design. Yet the design has
been around for 80+ yrs in various forms.
And someone stole it,
http://www.assystem.com/ouroffer/pageLibre000134d8.html
Sadly both, as all cars like his, has flaws like
directional stability among others. 


>
>There is one other question: is it legal? He may have
>gotten his 2-1/2-wheeler licensed, but it may not be so
>in any other state, and it may not even be legal in *his*
>state - other listees know the local 

Tom like I am is from Fla where if it drives
45mph, brakes, has lights, horn, ect, nothing falling off
and receipts for most everything, it passes.
For 3wheelers the same and no upper weight limit,
size other than 8.5' wide, as a MC.



DMV is only as
>strict as the person at the counter or the inspector 
>looking at your car, but written laws may make the design
>moot.

I've found if you ask them how can I do it at
the DMV, they do well helping, if not ask for the boss
nicely as it's beyond most clerks.
If they say you can't, make them show you which
laws says you can't and they start getting you going just to
get rid of you.
In Fla, I wouldn't worry about even taking it in
if it's a reg car, truck conversion and title already in
your name.
As for insurance, tell them it's an electric
conversion up front and rarely will it make any difference.
I just tell them it's electric when they ask which motor it
has. Progressive, many other companies will insure it.

Jerry Dycus

>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi Peter,
Even with 500lbs of plain old deep cycle batteries this car will go 50mi at 25mph, and the car will easly hold 1000lbs of lithium batteries,do the math. As for handling, the EVette can out maneuver a conventional car so easly, its not even a contest.
Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
>Sent: May 28, 2008 11:58 AM
>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>
>I think the big issue is your claims that it goes over 200 miles on a
>charge and that it handles better (at speed) than an ordinary car.
>
>
>> Hi David,
>> The car weighs about 1500lbs with 500lbs of batteries with lots of room
>> for more batteries. Jim griffin the founder of the Green Earth Expo in
>> Orlando Took a ride and a spin and he liked the car a lot, I think you
>> should talk to him and see if I`m full of crap or not.
>> Tom Sines
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: May 28, 2008 4:59 PM
>>>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>>>
>>>We went round and round the pole on this vehicle several months ago. I
>>> may
>>>be remembering the situation incorrectly, but if memory serves, several
>>> list
>>>members wanted to see the car and proof that it did what the builder
>>>claimed.
>>>
>>>For some reason, Tom wouldn't or couldn't meet them halfway on it. The
>>>result was a great deal of speculation and accusation that the Evette
>>> either
>>>didn't exist or wasn't what it claimed to be, followed by a defensive
>>>posture from the builder.
>>>
>>>The discussion that followed took up a lot of list bandwidth and, in the
>>>end, pretty much accomplished nothing.
>>>
>>>Let's not go through that again.
>>>
>>>For better and/or worse, Tom, the EVDL crowd tends to be a "show me"
>>> bunch.
>>>With all due respect, if you're not prepared to "put up the goods," then
>>> I
>>>think you'll get more traction if you promote your Evette somewhere else.
>>>
>>>David Roden
>>>EVDL Administrator
>>>http://www.evdl.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

<<< Hi,
Yes it is street legal,its a motorcycle in Florida.
Tom Sines >>>

I will copy my question again:

> There is one other question: is it legal? He may have gotten his 
> 2-1/2-wheeler licensed, but it may not be so in any other state, and 
> it may not even be legal in *his* state - other listees know the 
> local DMV is only as strict as the person at the counter or the 
> inspector looking at your car, but written laws may make the design 
> moot.
>

You will note I said "he may have gotten 2-1/2-wheeler licensed", so I 
know you have it as legal as needed, but even if it fulfills all of 
Florida's legal requirements, it may remain a 1-state vehicle (1500lb 
MC's that don't use the front wheel to steer are not in the 
rulebooks). Also, others have not doubted its existence or licensing, 
but whether anyone else can or has been allowed to drive it. This was 
based on concerns about its stability in the hands of anyone not 
directly involved with its creation and running at anything over 25mph 
(the legal limit for an NEV).

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi,

The car you are speaking of is not like the EVette at all, little Troll. You nead to look closer,it has nasty little wheels on the sides, and no load capacity.
Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>Sent: May 28, 2008 4:49 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>
>
> Hi Cowtown, Tom and All,
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:34:28 -0700
>
>>> What kind of help do you want? If you want us to help
>>> you sell the Evette, you're going to have to sell it to
>>>*us* first. 
>>> So, as Zeke said, "What price are you selling the EVette
>>> for, and what are the specs?"
>
> Tom is beyond help it seems. He has always afraid
>someone would 'steal' his great design. Yet the design has
>been around for 80+ yrs in various forms.
> And someone stole it,
> http://www.assystem.com/ouroffer/pageLibre000134d8.html
> Sadly both, as all cars like his, has flaws like
>directional stability among others. 
>
>
>>
>>There is one other question: is it legal? He may have
>>gotten his 2-1/2-wheeler licensed, but it may not be so
>>in any other state, and it may not even be legal in *his*
>>state - other listees know the local 
>
> Tom like I am is from Fla where if it drives
>45mph, brakes, has lights, horn, ect, nothing falling off
>and receipts for most everything, it passes.
> For 3wheelers the same and no upper weight limit,
>size other than 8.5' wide, as a MC.
> 
>
>
> DMV is only as
>>strict as the person at the counter or the inspector 
>>looking at your car, but written laws may make the design
>>moot.
>
> I've found if you ask them how can I do it at
>the DMV, they do well helping, if not ask for the boss
>nicely as it's beyond most clerks.
> If they say you can't, make them show you which
>laws says you can't and they start getting you going just to
>get rid of you.
> In Fla, I wouldn't worry about even taking it in
>if it's a reg car, truck conversion and title already in
>your name.
> As for insurance, tell them it's an electric
>conversion up front and rarely will it make any difference.
>I just tell them it's electric when they ask which motor it
>has. Progressive, many other companies will insure it.
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Hi,
Technically it is a motorcycle,only three wheels touch street,and it steers with a tiller,and no insurance in Florida, and yes it is licensed as a motorcycle. The stabitity is great and its fun to drive. however it does scare Trolls.
Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>Sent: May 28, 2008 6:44 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric evette
>
><<< Hi,
>Yes it is street legal,its a motorcycle in Florida.
>Tom Sines >>>
>
>I will copy my question again:
>
>> There is one other question: is it legal? He may have gotten his 
>> 2-1/2-wheeler licensed, but it may not be so in any other state, and 
>> it may not even be legal in *his* state - other listees know the 
>> local DMV is only as strict as the person at the counter or the 
>> inspector looking at your car, but written laws may make the design 
>> moot.
>>
>
>You will note I said "he may have gotten 2-1/2-wheeler licensed", so I 
>know you have it as legal as needed, but even if it fulfills all of 
>Florida's legal requirements, it may remain a 1-state vehicle (1500lb 
>MC's that don't use the front wheel to steer are not in the 
>rulebooks). Also, others have not doubted its existence or licensing, 
>but whether anyone else can or has been allowed to drive it. This was 
>based on concerns about its stability in the hands of anyone not 
>directly involved with its creation and running at anything over 25mph 
>(the legal limit for an NEV).
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Electric evette*

Maybe the Evette and Diablo can race it out? 

http://www.buildcoolstuff.com/wordpress-car/
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