# Controller on a Budget



## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

I have an All-Trax AXE7245 72volt 450amp controller in my saturn. It does alright, but i cant see it hitting 50mph. 72 volts is just too low to get any sport out of an EV. Launches nicely tho, DC motors have torque no matter what. I paid 400$ used(tested) on ebay.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Alex, I'll check them out.


----------



## Guest (Dec 1, 2011)

If your using a 9" motor why are you only going to use 72 volts? I did my first conversion with 72 volts and I guarantee you that you will want a controller that will pump out over 500 amps. My controller pumped out 550 amps. Most controllers in the 72 volt range just don't have enough poop to do you much good. You will want more right away, guaranteed. So to bypass that step and save yourself some money why not go up to 96 or even 120 volts. The Synkromotive controller is a well designed and robust controller with a decent price. I'd steer clear of Alltrax and Kelly unless you have a golf cart your using. So you choices are Curtis, Synkromotive, Soliton1 or Jr., WarpDrive. All being decent controllers and all being able to run at lower voltages than the max. I ran 120 volts with a 156 volt Synkromotive controller just fine. The Synkro also puts out good amperage and the most for the price range. Air cooled and its pretty near impossible to overheat it. Its small and lightweight and very programmable. 

Pete


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheers Pete,

Do yu know what? I think you're right...go cheap first and then you only upgrade later and it costs more in the long run...

I'll check out the manufacturers you suggested. A second hand one would be great but I guess they're as rare as hen's teeth!!

Cheers,

Adam


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

rumor has it you can also get a ZILLA from manzanita.


----------



## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes, but the design is old and there are others that are actually better unless you really need 2k worth of amps. Any 1K Zilla is overshadowed by the Soliton1 and Warp Industrial now. Easier to install and neither need the hairball garbage. Not dissing the Zilla because it did have its day.


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

"[...] hairball garbage. Not dissing the Zilla [...]"

"Not"?

I'd call the hairball a feature myself. You do all your 12 volt wiring (pot box, rev limiter, contactor, instrument lights, ect) away from the box with 4 traction pack power cables. You hook them together with an ethernet cable and drive off. Of the 3 controllers you listed it has by far the largest installed user base. I've got 2.


----------



## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

considering Adam wants a budget controller, I am not sure why Zilla and Soliton are mentioned at all...you can check for used controllers at the below link, there are good deals every now and then.

http://www.evtradinpost.com/index.p...mmethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=12&clearoff=1


----------



## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

EVfun said:


> "[...] hairball garbage. Not dissing the Zilla [...]"
> 
> "Not"?
> 
> I'd call the hairball a feature myself. You do all your 12 volt wiring (pot box, rev limiter, contactor, instrument lights, ect) away from the box with 4 traction pack power cables. You hook them together with an ethernet cable and drive off. Of the 3 controllers you listed it has by far the largest installed user base. I've got 2.


The Zilla has a large user base. But it's had its day. The others do overshadow and because of the problems they had the others just took the reign. The hairball has been a trouble spot for many but it does have its purpose. Not exactly super user friendly but functional. Its not a bad controller even with the hairball setup. Not even close to being a bad controller at all. It is a top quality one. If Manzanita keeps things going it may have a return and may even comeback as a better controller. But if you need a 1k controller I'd choose the Soliton1 unless the Zilla is cheaper. That I did not check. For a 500 amp controller I'd for sure go with a Synkromotive over Soliton Jr.


----------



## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

And no, I was not dissing the controller but was mentioning the hairball mess. That I called garbage. Just prefer to not have that. Seems like many have had troubles. Not a good thing. Some have had no trouble. Go figure.


----------



## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

efan said:


> considering Adam wants a budget controller, I am not sure why Zilla and Soliton are mentioned at all...you can check for used controllers at the below link, there are good deals every now and then.
> 
> http://www.evtradinpost.com/index.p...mmethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=12&clearoff=1


Lately the trading post has been pretty dry. The reason for posting the high end controller is because the person may decide to just bite the bullet and get a GOOD controller. Not just a CHEAP one. Sometimes a Zilla comes up for resale for a reasonable price but even those are coming to market less and less. What you find are folks ditching the Curtis controllers and Alltrax controllers and A few others like the Logisystems controller which you want to stay far away from, because these folks have found that 400 amps just does not cut the mustard in an on road car. It works but is just a slug. You really want 500 or more amps at your disposal. Really and it will cost money to get a controller that will fill that requirement. If you want to upgrade an NEV or Motorcycle or something else then the lower end controllers are available. But for the car you really need a good voltage and amperage controller. 

Pete


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

efan said:


> considering Adam wants a budget controller, I am not sure why Zilla and Soliton are mentioned at all...you can check for used controllers at the below link, there are good deals every now and then.


Because you can look for used controllers... anyway, I strongly suspect that Adam won't be happy if he powers an ADC 9 inch motor with only 72 volts. The peak power point will be about 2000 rpm and peak power will be only about 35 horsepower.


----------



## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

There is also the controller kits.

Raptor and the Paul and Sabrina. Don;t know anything about them, but have seen people talk about them and haven't heard anything bad. 

They are the cheapest option if you can assemble electronic boards.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Lots of great information and genuine opinions so thanks a lot guys!

I have my eye on a car which needs batteries and a controller and this info will help me weigh up what I could do with it and how much it would cost, so many thanks.

It strikes me that there are many more EV enthusiasts in the US and a handful in the UK...we need more over here!!!

Cheers,

Adam


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

My original thinking was, despite having a decent motor capable of much more, that if I kept the battery voltage down I could save on cost of battery pack and controller. I was thinking that way I could get away with purchasing a golf buggy type controller....but then I'd be running well below the motors capabilities and I guess if you use a buggy controller you get a buggy's performance!!

The Synkro looks good and has the potential to accommodate higher battery voltage if I were to add to the pack and would really have full capacity to drive the motor to it's upper performance limit which sounds like the right engineering solution to me...no compromises...apart from in the wallet dept!!

I'll let you know whether I get this car or not but even if I don't I'm much better placed to understand what is involved thanks to all of your posts so, many thanks to all.

Adam


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

EVfun said:


> Because you can look for used controllers... anyway, I strongly suspect that Adam won't be happy if he powers an ADC 9 inch motor with only 72 volts. The peak power point will be about 2000 rpm and peak power will be only about 35 horsepower.


Now that would make for a good tractor power plant!

500A will be plenty fine with a small car and lithium batteries but at 72V not so sure. 

I noticed that Sinopoly (TS) new batteries are much narrower than the Calb I purchased a year ago and much lighter too. All the dimensions are the same but the width is 68mm vs 98 on the Calb, huge reduction. The Si comes in at 5.6kg versus 7.1kg for the Calb. The price also is about 10% less than I paid last year.

With that weight savings 72V will perform much better.


----------



## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Where are you finding prices on the Sinopoly batteries? I'm seeing spec sheets a number of places, but no posted prices and I haven't heard of anybody stateside having then in their hot little hands either.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Classifieds on this site.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheers for the info Electricar, more food for my brain...


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

...and I like your conversion very much...Li Fe one day for me perhaps...I can dream!!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You wouldn't be thinking of a VW Golf that just needs controller and batteries and in the UK would you?

For cheap controllers I would seriously look at the Paul and Sabrina kit.
http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/store/index.html


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> You wouldn't be thinking of a VW Golf that just needs controller and batteries and in the UK would you?


VW Golf? Not sure what you mean!! It's not yours is it?



Woodsmith said:


> For cheap controllers I would seriously look at the Paul and Sabrina kit.
> http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/store/index.html


I'll have a look at these now...

Cheers Woodsmith.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Nah, not mine, I just know of one, recently converted and now for sale, less controller and batteries and, I think with the same motor as you say.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah, I do know of it. Looks OK don't you think?


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I just secured my first EV!!! Wow who!!! Get in!!!

Super-excited!!!!

Cheers for all the advice...it will serve me well I have no doubt!!!


----------



## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> I just secured my first EV!!! Wow who!!! Get in!!!
> 
> Super-excited!!!!
> 
> Cheers for all the advice...it will serve me well I have no doubt!!!



Awesome! Welcome to the EV world, and get ready for Perma-Grin. It's fun!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I pick it up on Thursday!!!! Can't wait. Needs controller and batteries and that's it...as far as I know!!!!


----------



## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> I pick it up on Thursday!!!! Can't wait. Needs controller and batteries and that's it...as far as I know!!!!



Details? Make/model, year and motor? Also, manual tranny? Clutch or clutchless?

We can help you pick the right parts so you can really enjoy it!


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

alexcrouse said:


> Details? Make/model, year and motor? Also, manual tranny? Clutch or clutchless?
> 
> We can help you pick the right parts so you can really enjoy it!


She's a MkII VW Golf 1993. Motor is a Advanced DC FB1-4001A, 9.1.

Manual transmission with clutch. The previous owner, who carried out the build, added the clutch when changing proved tricky from 3rd to 2nd.

I was planning on doing a pick-up truck conversion myself and this little beauty popped up so I couldn't resist...we're moving house, have a one year old and another on the way so the timing isn't ideal but I could miss this gem!!

Any advice on a decent (and cheap!!) controller welcomed. Advice on this thread has been great so far but welcome all info from all.


----------



## alexcrouse (Mar 16, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> She's a MkII VW Golf 1993. Motor is a Advanced DC FB1-4001A, 9.1.
> 
> Manual transmission with clutch. The previous owner, who carried out the build, added the clutch when changing proved tricky from 3rd to 2nd.
> 
> ...



If you feel up to it, Paul and Sabrina's DIY controller will be the best bang for the buck! 

Next in line would be a used controller, probably a Curtis. Stay clear of Kelly and Logisys, thats what i've read. Shoot for 120v minimum. I'd say you'll be happy with 144v at 500amps peak. More would just be icing on the cake! Good score on the car, i'm jealous. 

Lead acid will move the car, Lithium would be better, but will cost more. Expect a solid year of good performance from well treated lead, and then another year of lesser performance, then replacement time. I used MAXX29 125Ah 12v lead acids for my car, bought them at WalMart for 99USD each! They are Marine deep cycles, and take the abuse quite well for the cost.


----------



## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

alexcrouse said:


> If you feel up to it, Paul and Sabrina's DIY controller will be the best bang for the buck!
> 
> _*Yeah, I've seen what they're up to and seen some vids of theirs on YouTube. I'm an aero engineer and have all equipment at work so no excuses!! The car was built with 120V pack and then upgraded to 156V and 1200A!!! My plans are somewhat more conservative...initially!!*_
> 
> ...


_*I think I've got to go for lead first and my commute is 12 miles round trip so they should be fine I rekon. i wish I could find a battery for $99!!! We do have Walmart over here, UK, s will keep my eyes peeled.*_

_*All great advice, just what I need to proceed with confidence avoiding costly mistakes.*_


----------

