# Tesla Powertrain V1.5



## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Why bother when you can use a series DC motor and the existing transmission and save a fortune and get better torque?

Assuming you'd use LiFePO4 batteries for weight and ease of mounting/distribution in the kit body, you'd have to double or more the number of cells to get to the RMS voltages required to efficiently use an AC motor.


----------



## Zerdusman (Aug 29, 2008)

Let's see, reasons for going AC instead of DC

1. Regen baking
2. REVERSE
3. No Brushes
4. Lower initial torque, but higher, more stable torque curve over all


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

1 - regen braking's benefits are debated as not being worth the cost
2 - DC motors with transmissions have no problem reversing..
3 - Brushes generally last up to 80,000 miles and cost only 100$to replace
4 - Warp-11" has pretty stable torque too...plus DC motors use trans to stabilize...


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

AC Propulsion. 

Tesla licensed technology from AC Propulsion. Their AC system is rated 150kw. Last I checked, a kit will cost you about 25k. Someone posted a group buy of $10k if you buy a 100, but I doubt it is real. 

*1. How much is the AC-150 Gen 2?*
The *AC-150* Gen 2 is $25,000. This includes the *AC* induction motor (150 kW peak, 50 kW
continuous), the motor drive inverter (150 kW peak, 50 kW continuous), the integrated,
Reductive, bi-directional charger (20 kW), and the 13.5V DC power supply (100A max). The
*AC-150* is air-cooled and the cooling system is included in the price. The inverter, charger,
and power supply are all contained in a single integrated power electronics unit (PEU). An
*AC-150* spec sheet can be downloaded from our website. We offer discounts for orders of
two or more systems.. The *AC-150* is covered by a one-year limited warranty.
Most *AC-150* installations require a vehicle management system (VMS). The VMS is a
computer with push-buttons and displays that provides operating information, system
controls, and communication with the battery management system (BMS). Our VMS costs
$1,200.
*2. How can I get an AC-150?*
You can order an *AC-150* and pick it up in San Dimas, or we will ship it to you in a crate.
We have shipped *AC*-150s all over the world. A 50% deposit is required at time of order. At
the time of order you will receive the *AC-150* Interface Document that provides technical
information relating to installation of the *AC-150*. Delivery of the *AC-150* usually takes 4 to
12 weeks from time of order. We will estimate the actual delivery date at the time of order.
*3. Do you sell used AC-150s?*
Sometimes our customers upgrade from the older *AC-150* Gen 1 to a Gen 2 or they de-
commission a project vehicle and salvage the *AC-150* drive system. They often sell the
surplus system on the open market, but occasionally they return it to *AC* *Propulsion* to be
sold. In either case, *AC* *Propulsion* continues to support the drive system and can provide
technical assistance to the new owner. 
*4. Why does the AC-150 Gen 2 cost more than other drive systems?*
The *AC-150* Gen 2 demonstrates performance and technology not available in other drive
systems. It provides more power, faster charging, and more features. Typical EV motors
produce maximum power of 50 to 70 kW, the *AC-150* produces 150 kW – two to three
times more power. Typical chargers operate at a maximum of 4 to 7 kW. The *AC-150*
Reductive charger operates at up to 20 kW – three to five times more power for faster
charging. The *AC-150* is the only drive system available with a bi-directional charger that can
produce grid-quality, 50Hz or 60 Hz *AC* power from the vehicle battery. 
We manufacture the *AC-150* motors and electronics in low volume right in our shop in San
Dimas, California. The motor uses a copper rotor for high power and efficiency. The copper
rotor is built using a process developed and patented by *AC* *Propulsion*. As our production
volumes increase, *AC-150* prices will come down, but the exceptional technology will
remain.
441 Borrego Court 
•
San Dimas, CA 91773 
•
909 592-5399 
•
www.acpropulsion.

*7. Does the AC-150 have regenerative braking?*
Yes, regenerative braking is included. In fact, the *AC-150* recaptures a high percentage of
available energy because the regen braking operates separately from the friction brakes. This
means that in normal driving regen does all the deceleration and you hardly waste any energy
heating up the friction brakes. In stop-and-go or hilly driving, this can add 30% to your
driving range compared to a car without regen. 
*8. What else do I need besides the AC-150 to build an electric vehicle?*
Every electric vehicle needs a drive system, transmission, battery system, and controls and
instruments. The *AC-150* is the drive system. It includes the motor, motor controller
(inverter), charger, cooling system, and DC power supply for accessory loads. The *AC-150*
does not include a transmission, battery, or instrumentation.
2
*Page 3*
*AC* *Propulsion*
FAQ – *AC-150* *· *Batteries *· *EV Conversions
September 1, 2004
*9. What type of transmission do I need?*
To get the power from the *AC-150* motor to the wheels requires a fixed-ratio, speed-reducing
transmission. No shifting is required. Reverse is achieved by turning the motor backwards.
For most vehicles the best overall ratio is between 9:1 and 10:1 depending on vehicle weight
and tire size. The transmission must be capable of handling the maximum torque (165 ft-lbs)
and maximum speed (12,000 rpm) of the *AC-150* motor. The *AC-150* motor requires special
adapters to mount to a transmission. These adapters can be ordered from *AC* *Propulsion* or
they can be fabricated according to *AC* *Propulsion* specifications.
*AC* *Propulsion* builds a fixed-ratio EV transmission based on the Honda 5-speed manual
gearbox from either the 1992 – 1995 or 1996 – 2000 Civics. We remove the Honda gears and
shifting mechanism and install a custom-built gearset with a 2.22:1 ratio. We use the standard
Honda final drive and differential, with ratio 4.25:1 or 4.06:1. It works well in EVs based on
the Civic, and can be adapted to other vehicles as well. The transmission, new, is $5000 -
$6000 depending on configuration.
*10. What type of battery do I need?*
The battery for an EV has to be designed for each specific vehicle. The type of battery, lead-
acid (PbA), nickel metal hydride (NiMH), or lithium (Li-Ion or Li-polymer) and size of
battery must be determined for each installation. Once that is determined, then batteries can
be purchased from a battery supplier and the battery installation can be designed. The
installation must be strong and safe, and must provide for electrical and environmental
isolation of the battery as well as for all of the wiring, heating, and cooling the battery
requires. For cars using the *AC-150*, battery nominal voltage must be between 336V and
370V. Designing and installing a good battery is the hardest part of building an EV. A
complete battery system, including the BMS can cost from $5,000 to $50,000 or more.

*13. Do you sell battery management systems?*
Yes. We have two BMS products available. 
The VTM is a voltage and temperature monitor that senses and reports cell or module voltage
and temperature to controller such as the *AC* *Propulsion* VMS. The VTM provides a basic
level of battery monitoring suitable for PbA and NiMH batteries, but does not provide
equalization.
The LVTM, is a VTM adapted and optimized for Li-Ion batteries. Each LVTM monitors 4
Li-Ion cells and provides equalization using a switchable load for each cell.
3


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

up to 12 weeks delivery time? You would think they could do better than that by now.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

david85 said:


> up to 12 weeks delivery time? You would think they could do better than that by now.


That info was removed from their website, google still had it cached though. I would have pasted the whole thing, but there is a 10,000 character limit. Thought it would be a good thing to archive.


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_ac-induction.php

the AC-30/31 have 84-96V and 50hp + 115 ftlbs. (max)

two of these motor contoller combinations would be about 8000$ and would have 100hp and 230ftlbs....


----------



## GTWCMT (Jan 22, 2009)

Ah thanks for posting the info on the AC P unit. I can see why the guy said 10K. as it says trans 5K and battery 5K
Saves me the bother of asking how much they cost and waiting weeks for a reply.


----------

