# Electric Heaters



## NeonGeek (Jul 12, 2008)

Hello, I was just wondering where you can buy an electric heater for an EV at? I've tried searching on Google and all I can find are space heaters or the type of heaters that you plug into the cigarette lighter.


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## bluester (Oct 22, 2010)

NeonGeek said:


> Hello, I was just wondering where you can buy an electric heater for an EV at? I've tried searching on Google and all I can find are space heaters or the type of heaters that you plug into the cigarette lighter.


http://www.evamerica.com/evcomponentpackages.html

or

http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/Heater.html


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## NeonGeek (Jul 12, 2008)

thanks! Took a look at it and the only thing I could find were the ceramic heaters, which probably wouldn't work too well in Ohio lol. but I never thought about a water heater connected to the heater core.


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## bluester (Oct 22, 2010)

NeonGeek said:


> thanks! Took a look at it and the only thing I could find were the ceramic heaters, which probably wouldn't work too well in Ohio lol. but I never thought about a water heater connected to the heater core.


Then you may want to contact EV-BLUE

Phone: 620-837-3244 
Email: [email protected] or [email protected]
119 Main Street, Walton, KS 67151

He has a configuration which EVA recommends as an alternative to the ceramic heater.

BTW... I live in Washington State and have not settled on a heater configuration. I do not want to go with a water heater on my first EV conversion. I am doing a lot of the work myself. Here is my blog

Keep everyone posted on your conversion!


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## bluester (Oct 22, 2010)

NeonGeek said:


> thanks! Took a look at it and the only thing I could find were the ceramic heaters, which probably wouldn't work too well in Ohio lol. but I never thought about a water heater connected to the heater core.



BTW.... Was there another type of Electric Heater you were thinking of installing in your EV?

You may want to check out this article on Electric Heaters. I was enlightened


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## omonoid (Aug 30, 2009)

i got my ceramc heater from walmart for $10. You just need a relay to wire it to your "heat on" swithc in your car

I have 3 blog posts on how i did mine
http://electricgti.blogspot.com/2010/09/its-gonna-be-cold-winter.html
http://electricgti.blogspot.com/2010/09/heater-update.html
http://electricgti.blogspot.com/2010/09/another-heater-update.html


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I used two 1500W ceramic heaters in parallel:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=203777&postcount=599
I measured a bit over 3100W output at high blower speed. I can verify it keeps the (small) car warm at 15 F outside temperature. In fact I usually turn it off after around 15-20 minutes in mid- 20's temps as the car interior gets too warm. Then cycle it on off if necessary. Some things to consider: 
1) The higher the wattage heater, the larger the hit on vehicle range when it is operating. My car uses about 200 Wh/mile, and the heater uses about 1kw/20 minutes. That's 5 miles reduction in range each 20 minutes. Prior to this one I ran a single 1500 W heater, but it only put out about 1200W and didn't heat the car much. 
2) A big advantage of going to two side by side is there is half the resistance to air flow. The larger air flow makes a big difference in heating. Don't stack one on top the other, since that will double the resistance to air flow, resulting in poor flow.
3) If your pack is less than 200V and you use a hot water heater element, you will be limited to 1500 W for shorter elements, 2000W for one something like a foot long, so you would likely want to use two. You can get 240V ones that are 4 or 5 kW. It will likely be mounted under the hood in outside cold temperature with cold wind blowing around it while driving, so will have to be well insulated, and will still loose heat. There is also the thermal inertia the Wayland article mentions. Takes a while to heat the water and metal. A ceramic heater is inside the car, so all the heat goes there, and they warm in 20-30 seconds.
4) It is generally considerably more difficult to mount a ceramic heater. I had to pull the dash and the heater out of the car. It was about an 8 hour job to pull them, mount the heater, re-install (more time to make the teflon holder for the two heaters - you need to ensure air can only go through the heaters, not around them, and make sure the material you use can take the temperature of the heater element touching it - test it before you mount it in the car. I can tell you polycarbonate melts).
5) I wouldn't trust an ssr to turn a heater on/off, since it could fail shorted on. I use a DPDT P&B relay from KTA-ev. It is rated 120V/20A, so I am a bit over the spec, but it is working well so far. One with magnetic blowouts to reduce arcing of the contacts would be better, a contactor even better, especially at higher pack voltages. And of course fuse the leads before they enter the vehicle interior since they are at pack voltage and could deliver very high current before they burned up. The relay or contactor should be outside the vehicle cabin too, so there is no voltage in the cabin with the heater off.
6) Eliminate all air leaks into the vehicle cabin, and insulate where you can. That will make a very big difference, reducing required heater power. If tight, and well insulated, you might get by with one 1500W heater. I did not do as I preach here, but another ev owner claims he did this and less than 1kW heats his truck cab in Montana. He insulated inside the doors, the floors, and head liner.


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## bluester (Oct 22, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> 5) I wouldn't trust an ssr to turn a heater on/off, since it could fail shorted on. I use a DPDT P&B relay from KTA-ev. It is rated 120V/20A, so I am a bit over the spec, but it is working well so far. One with magnetic blowouts to reduce arcing of the contacts would be better, a contactor even better, especially at higher pack voltages. And of course fuse the leads before they enter the vehicle interior since they are at pack voltage and could deliver very high current before they burned up. The relay or contactor should be outside the vehicle cabin too, so there is no voltage in the cabin with the heater off.


I think that was a good idea to add the DPDT P&B relay




tomofreno said:


> 6) Eliminate all air leaks into the vehicle cabin, and insulate where you can. That will make a very big difference, reducing required heater power. If tight, and well insulated, you might get by with one 1500W heater. I did not do as I preach here, but another ev owner claims he did this and less than 1kW heats his truck cab in Montana. He insulated inside the doors, the floors, and head liner.


My truck has vinyl and I intend to purchase carpet with sound deadening insulation. I must also replace all the weather stripping - I am interested in what type of insulation was used in the head liner??? Do you have a link?


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> 4) It is generally considerably more difficult to mount a ceramic heater. I had to pull the dash and the heater out of the car. It was about an 8 hour job to pull them, mount the heater, re-install (more time to make the teflon holder for the two heaters - you need to ensure air can only go through the heaters, not around them, and make sure the material you use can take the temperature of the heater element touching it - test it before you mount it in the car. I can tell you polycarbonate melts).


I tore my dash apart (removed A/C, etc...) as per the OEM manual, but then realized that if I simply cut the original cooling pipes (which snaked around the heater then through the firewall) then I could remove the heater core with almost no work at all. I used hi-temperature silicon to hold two ceramic elements in place in the original/gutted heater core. SSR relays require good heat-sinks to operate at rated conditions - either over-rate them (I used 40Amp Crydom units) or use good heat sinks... There are PWM temperature controllers (about $40) which can measure the temperature, then create PWM pulses to SSR relays to continuously adjust the heat required (ie they do not have to be on/off).


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

> I am interested in what type of insulation was used in the head liner??? Do you have a link?


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-...uch-wattage-for-a-heater-tp453598p453612.html

There are a lot of posts on evdl on heaters. Just do a search.


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## bluester (Oct 22, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-...uch-wattage-for-a-heater-tp453598p453612.html
> 
> There are a lot of posts on evdl on heaters. Just do a search.


Thank You!


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I'll add what I've learned about the ceramic elements available. You can purchase one at Walmart which also now has an online store now. You have to purchase the space heater and remove it. I noticed they have a new rectangular profile now also vs the approximately 5" square ones.

What I found when I installed mine is that the more air flow you have through it, the more current it draws. So on low I think it only consumed about 1500 watts which is it's rating in the enclosure you'll find it in at Walmart. However when I moved the switch on the dash up one spot from low, the current increased and thus watts increased a couple hundred or so watts. One more notch and it increased again. On the max setting I believe it was putting out about 2100 watts. 

I mention this because if you try to use two of them with a given air flow, as one poster mentioned earlier you'll be splitting the air flow between the two elements and thus the output will be reduced per unit. I'm sure though even with this reduced output you would still gain overall and probably significantly. I'm wanting to add a second unit to mine as one just doesn't do very well on cold days. It's ok but nothing like the factory water heater!


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