# 48V 100AH battery pack



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Willy,

It says Lithion ion which is probably different than LFP. I see no mention of BMS or charger or specs liike C rate. Price seems high. No shipping cost. Not enough info. China is a crap shoot. Customer support and return/refund mostly don't happen.

major


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## satchid (Jun 21, 2016)

Thanks,
So what are my options?
The nominal voltage of this EV is 48v driven with 4 led/acid battery's max voltage in cabin on dashboard 52.9v minimum is 46.2v.
Maximum normal driving current is 80A
boost current is 110A for max 11 seconds
I would like 100AH battery(s)
max sizes of compartment:
84 cm (33") long
21cm (8.26")wide (absolute max is 220cm)
40 cm (15.7") high

In this I would like a new charger max 220 volt 20amp on the primary side and battery controls if necessary.
I drove 5000km in 8 months.

Fast charging could be favorable. 

Could somebody set me on the way with this.

Thank you,
Willy


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## nucleus (May 18, 2012)

You could do a string of 15 CALB LiFePO4 cells to be at 48 Volts nominal. 

15 100 Ah CALB cells will fit on your box nicely.

You will very happy with how it drives compared to Lead cells, with the reduced weight and increased power.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

satchid said:


> Could somebody set me on the way with this


Take a look at this: http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/in...ng&cid=22&name=48v-golf-cart-packs&Itemid=195
They are Nissan Leaf and chevy Volt battery. High quality battery.
For comparaison, a chevy Volt 48v 94Ah battery will fit your needs and cost only 1235$
You can buy some kit like this or build your own if you can find Leaf or A Volt battery at a scrapyard near you.


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## Fir3Storm (Jan 4, 2017)

I can custom fit a box with a dual pair of Tesla Lithium packs for your desired dimensions.

2x Tesla Battery module @ 444 18650 with individual cell fusing
BMS Board 12S Li Ion with 150A max current, 125A Fuse.
Battery operating range will be 50,4V - 34,8V yielding 9,5kWh or 214Ah.
Safe operation would be 48V-38V yielding 8kWh useable energy.

Dimensions are 685x320x85 pr module, stacking two in series with some wooden enclosure would match perfectly. But you would loose some Voltage, depends on your motor / controller setup if it can handle it.

- Fir3Storm


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## satchid (Jun 21, 2016)

Fir3Storm et All,
I am not so keen on lower operating voltage, I am running now on 52.9V starting and ending on 46.2V I do not know how to change that in the program of the car. I think that a small diference between 48v to 46.2v would limit mi range significantly.

The verhicle is an "Estrima Biro" of 2015. 
Thank


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

The voltage would not be your limiting factor for range. 
Lower voltage May reduce your top speed(but I am not certain by how much in an already only 48v nominal system).

The difference here is that your 48v 100ah lead acid pack would give you 50ah range if you were driving it to maintain your battery cycle life. I suspect that you are not, so say that you are using 80% of your battery and cycle life be damned, then you have potentially a 48v 80ah range. 

Your range would actually be less than this due to peukerts problems, but I don't know enough about that to accurately describe it to you. Suffice to say that the more power that you demand from your lead acid batteries, the less they will give you.

In theory, those Tesla battery packs in series would give you a 48v 250ah battery. Using only 80% would allow you to have 200ah of range with few peukerts issues.

So, the issue at hand is not that you would have less range due to lower voltage, if your motor controller is able to deal with the lower voltage (it may have some preset lower voltage limitations that would kick in to save you from driving your lead acid pack into the ground). 

If your controller can operate at a lower voltage, you would have over double your current range with the Tesla pack vs your "higher voltage" lead acid pack.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

Having looked at it, that thing is Super Cute! It's like a miniature street legal golf cart!

As you say that you have a lead acid pack, I presume that you have a previous version of the Biro? In the specs, all they have are Lithium packs at 44v nominal.

Which leads me to believe that unless there is a major difference between your Biro and the most current model, your Biro would probably be able to operate on the Tesla Lithium pack.

http://www.estrima.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Biro_brochure_ENG_download.pdf


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## Fir3Storm (Jan 4, 2017)

i tend to agree with akseminole on that point.

The Biro Lithium Maxi battery is €3000. 
A 44.4 (12series Lithium Ion) with 100AH capacity.

My offer is double the capacity at much lower cost.
So running close to 200km is possible.

You would need to get a suitable charger, as the Lead acid charger is running to high voltage. Since this is DIY you would need some in depth knowledge too since no support is given. And i cant answer whether your Biro can handle Lithium, allthough most likely it can or be made to.

- Fir3Storm


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## satchid (Jun 21, 2016)

Fir3Storm et All,
Yes, it is cute to drive with as well, I have 5000Km in 8 months time. 

In 2015 there was a shooise for lead/accid and lithium.

Concerning the range: The point is that the biro is limited at 80A in normal driving conditions
If i drive now, at 46.2 volts (80*46.2=3696watts) i feel the speed hesitating ever so slightly. This is the point where the current is going to 80A for a moment and the voltage low. If I go further downing the voltage, Then the speed is limited, had to come home once at 20Km/hour. unfortunately i did not looked at the voltage at that moment. The power on the wheels being 4000 watts and the current is not allowed (by the briro) to go over 80A says that there is the lower voltage that direct the max power. 
Also, the top voltage is important for the boost. If i use the booster, the biro will ask for a set current of 110A for 11 seconds. 110A at 52 volts is 5720watts for 11 seconds. if only 44volt than the boost power is only 4840watts on the wheels.
So, to conclude if i place a battery of 44 volts bottom, I will not get the power out of the 2 lower voltages without loosing speed in that region. 

The vehicle is an "Estrima Biro" of 2015. 
Thanks,
willy


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## Fir3Storm (Jan 4, 2017)

What you are experiencing is a worn out Lead-acid pack. At 20km/h you are likely drawing in the 5-10A range @46V, not 80A.
Lithium has the inherent advantage delivering allmost full power to 0% charge.


alternatively you can check out 

12V Lifepo, but without BMS and Voltage protection (beware!)
https://www.ev-power.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteries-12V-1-1/?cur=1

Local dealers sell this 12V 100Ah including BMS at €1200. 50Ah at €660 Maybe worth looking into. Packing 4 in series would do you 48V.
http://www.mobil-energi.dk/104/Lithium/Polaris%20Lithium%2012V%20100Ah%20LiFePO4%20batteri?category_id=352&product_id=4068

Still the OEM Biro packs will be better value. Unless you want recycled Tesla.
Also, 100ah Lithium will save you 50kg over 100ah Lead. Equal better range and accelleration.


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## satchid (Jun 21, 2016)

Hi all, and thank you for all the conversations. 

In the mean time I have ordered 16 cells https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/WB-LYP90AHA-LiFeYPO4-3-2V-90Ah.html?cur=1
This because of the size. this is the biggest AH cell or battery in there that fitted in the physical space. 

I purchased from this firm because it is delivering from inside EU. therefore no import problems and fast delivery.
I also purchased a BMS system https://www.ev-power.eu/Battery-Man...ete-Set-4-cells-with-Bluetooth-4-0.html?cur=1 and https://www.ev-power.eu/Battery-Management/BMS123-Smart/123-Smart-BMS-Extended-Module.html?cur=1
And a charger: https://www.ev-power.eu/Chargers-6V-to-36V/Charger-48V-30A-for-LFP-LiP-58-8V-BMS-con.html?cur=1
All of this fits into the available space.
I hope that I did made a good choice.
Now, I need to build this together.
I Hoped that some of the experienced builders here could advise me. Wat do I have to do after delivery (suposed to be today) 

I thank you all
Willy
Belgium.


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## mali_r (4 mo ago)

satchid said:


> Hi all, and thank you for all the conversations.
> 
> In the mean time I have ordered 16 cells WINSTON WB-LYP90AHA LiFeYPO4, 3.3V, 90Ah | shop.GWL.eu
> This because of the size. this is the biggest AH cell or battery in there that fitted in the physical space.
> ...


Hi Willy! This was long time ago, but I am looking for same information. If you are still around. Could you give us some updated? Did you manage to get your Estrima going? Thanks!


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