# ADC, Warp motor temperature sensor wiring



## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Hello,
Does anyone have instructions or information on the built-in temperature sensor found in the ADC and Warp motors? I assume they are the same, or similar at least.

I have an ADC motor and it has the two wires sticking out of it for the temperature sensor. I have not been able to find much online in regards to wiring it.
What are the two wires? Is one of them power or ground? Or are both of them the same, in case two temperature outputs are desired, for example one to the gauge and the other to the controller?

My goal is to display all readings on the car's stock gauge cluster. The stock gauge goes from 40°C to 120°C and uses a single-wire sensor with approximately these resistances:
Ohm, Celsius
392, 40
158, 55
100, 65
67, 81
50.3, 92
40, 100
20, 120

Would anyone happen to know the resistances of the built-in sensor? I am curious if it would be as simple as directly connecting the wire from the motor to the gauge sensor wire, possibly adding a resistor in between to match up the readings better if necessary.

Also, what is an appropriate temperature range that an electric motor sees? Is the 40-120°C usable? If not, I would not need the displayed temperature to be exact, as long as I know approximately what values it correlates to.

Alternatively, I also considered somehow attaching the car's sensor to the motor, though I am not sure where the best spot on the motor would be to get a reading from or how well it would work, since the sensor is designed to get its readings from the engine's coolant.

Thank you for any information.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Matej said:


> Hello,
> Does anyone have instructions or information on the built-in temperature sensor found in the ADC and Warp motors? I assume they are the same, or similar at least.
> 
> I have an ADC motor and it has the two wires sticking out of it for the temperature sensor. I have not been able to find much online in regards to wiring it.
> ...


The two wires goes to a sensor that you hook up to a buzzer or light and when the buzzer goes off or the light comes on it is notifying you that the motor is now toast.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Fantastic. Thank you. I will wire them to the door chime.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Oh wait, just realized that you may have not actually been sarcastic.

So it works the same way as the oil pressure warning on an ICE motor. Got it.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Matej said:


> Oh wait, just realized that you may have not actually been sarcastic.
> 
> So it works the same way as the oil pressure warning on an ICE motor. Got it.


Well it was sort of sarcasm but that was also my experience. I had close to 60K on my FB9001 when it went. It was a 100+ degree day and I had pulled this killer hill. About three miles after I topped it I was just at the bottom of a down grade and just ready to climb the last rise before I got home and the motor quit. With in seconds of the death of the motor the buzzer started buzzing. I would like to have some kind of sensor that gives internal temp. I was thinking of an infra heat sensor aimed at the brushes.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Thank you for clarifying. This whole time I assumed it was a temperature sensor. Perhaps I will try to somehow incorporate the car's OEM sensor after all, or use an infrared sensor such as the one that EV West sells.

I have also been trying to find out approximately how much air the internal fans on these motors pull.

My plan was to make a custom band similar to the closed forced cooling bands that people use, but instead of using a blower, I want to add a computer fan to each of the intake ports on the motor.
Though this would of course be pointless if the internal fan already draws more air than the four PC fans could push in.
Exhaust fans would be even more effective, but unfortunately the exhaust ports are a bit too narrow to adapt the fans conveniently.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Forget the PC fans, not enough airflow. use a 4" bilge blower and pipe it in to the cover band 

This type of thing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rule-In-Lin...ash=item464a342b81:g:5fEAAOSwZQxW36UP&vxp=mtr


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

> Does anyone have instructions or information on the built-in temperature sensor found in the ADC and Warp motors? I assume they are the same, or similar at least.


{From OP. It would not copy for reply.}

Bad assumption. Even all Warp motors are not the same in that regard. You need to check the specification or drawing like this: http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html#WarP_9

You can see that there was a change in 2010 from a N.C. to a N.O. thermal switch. These are a SPST contact which activates at a given temperature to drive an idiot light on the dash. Normally the device is wrapped to a field coil and set to a temperature which corresponds to a limiting temperature elsewhere in the motor, usually the armature. In this case, the drawings specify 120ºC. Insulation class H for these motors is 180ºC. Such thermal switches are useful for longer duration overloads but fall short of detecting severe overloads of like 5 to 10 minutes which normally cook the commutator.

Also noted on the post 2010 drawing is the inclusion of a thermistor. I know nothing about that.

Regards,

major


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Thank you. In that case I will probably not even bother with hooking it up. I would rather just have a proper temperature gauge that I can monitor.




favguy said:


> Forget the PC fans, not enough airflow. use a 4" bilge blower and pipe it in to the cover band


The reason I have been trying to avoid this standard type of cooling is because all of the blowers are a bit loud. To me, one of the biggest appeals of going electric is making the car as noiseless as possible. 

Though in the end, I guess I will probably just have to go with it after all. Unless I can find a quiet blower. I wish the blower makers would also list their dBA.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

P.S.
Would anyone happen to know what type or brand of blower the one sold by EV West is?
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=200

800CFM at 12V seems like a ridiculous number for a blower of that size. I am curious what kind of magic it uses. I would also think that if the numbers are true, it must be amazingly loud.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Looks like one of the generic Chinese, so called "Electric Superchargers" you can find on ebay marked up a bit! 

Here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-SU...93d36cf&pid=100033&rk=3&rkt=4&sd=251272378945

The 800 cfm model apparently runs at 900W, so if this is to be believed, and your 12v system runs at about 13.8v, that's 65A continuous! This is totally impractical for most batteries or DC/DC converters. Also, from the size of the wiring on the ones pictured, They are only intended for wider throttle opening on ICE cars (although they are BS and don't work on ICE applications anyway!) so doubt they would cope with continuous operation in an EV. 

Something fishy about the EV west example as they state it runs at only 4A. This equates to only around 55 Watts, there is no way it's putting out even a fraction of 800cfm at that power level!!!


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

favguy said:


> that's 65A continuous! This is totally impractical for most batteries or DC/DC converters.


 That was my first thought too, but if you look at the picture carefully, you will notice that it is activated by a 30 amp (or maybe 40?) Bosch relay. It may actually work with a good-sized DC-DC, if used intermittently... for example, when the motor temp is above 130 F.

Still, the odds of it lasting more than a few months are slim....


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

I am using a double squirrel cage blower from the heater of my X1/9. I have no idea of the CFM but the air flow is stronger than the motor fan at about 1000 RPM. I run it continuous and don’t think it draws more than 10 amps if that much. As for a heat gage, after looking at the price for a ready made ones I was thinking about taking one of my harbor freight hand held heat sensors apart and fitting it into the motor. Anyone of you EE’s have an idea how extra three or four feet of wire would affect the accuracy or any other problems?


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

favguy said:


> Forget the PC fans, not enough airflow. use a 4" bilge blower and pipe it in to the cover band


Another idea behind using the PC fans besides less noise was the fact that there would be a fan directly above each brush holder, providing individual cooling to each set of brushes.
Plus when the motor is stopped, it should still be better than no cooling.

With a blower, the air only enters from a single direction over one set of brushes and thus the brushes and the motor are cooled unevenly.
Of course, I have no idea if this even matters at all. Chances are it does not have any adverse effects whatsoever.

Four blowers, one at each opening, would be best, though it would be quite a bulky and probably loud setup.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

Please excuse the silly colorful doodle, but here is another idea I entertained.
It would require a bit of custom work, but I am guessing it should be very effective.

Basically, just put the motor in a box. On the front of the box would be a powerful automotive radiator fan. Inside the box would be a divider plate separating the front part the motor from the rest, thus the air is forced to pass through the motor.

On the rear half of the box is a puller fan helping draw the hot air out of the motor.
Alternatively, I think this design would still be very effective if the box is only built around the rear half of the motor. Puller fans are generally much more effective than pusher fans, and one powerful fan would probably be sufficient for drawing air through the motor.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Matej said:


> Please excuse the silly colorful doodle, but here is another idea I entertained.
> It would require a bit of custom work, but I am guessing it should be very effective.
> 
> Basically, just put the motor in a box. On the front of the box would be a powerful automotive radiator fan. Inside the box would be a divider plate separating the front part the motor from the rest, thus the air is forced to pass through the motor.
> ...


I have had similar idea but no room for the box and to lazy to try it.


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## Vanquizor (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm using that exact concept in my build- except for me the box is the transmission tunnel and chassis backbone. The rear of the box exits into the diffuser area.


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## Vhclbldr (Feb 8, 2014)

major said:


> {From OP. It would not copy for reply.}
> 
> Bad assumption. Even all Warp motors are not the same in that regard. You need to check the specification or drawing like this: http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html#WarP_9
> 
> ...


Interesting how there are few threads or continued discussions about this topic (or perhaps I just have not found them yet), but here is some updated information about the thermistor:
I spoke with the folks at go-EV (NetGain) and they sent me some data. The thermistor outputs about 560 ohms at ambient room temperature, and increases to just under 1300 at 500 degrees Fahrenheit. Most auto meters work on a reducing resistance curve for increased temperature indication, so they probably won't work.

Still working in the solution.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

What cfm is considered optimal for Warp 9, Warp 11 etc motors?

If quietness is a main issue for you, might I suggest inline grow room fans? They run on 120 ac, though at a low enough power to run on a small 12v inverter.

They claim in the 800 cfm range at under 150w for this fan: http://www.htgsupply.com/products/growbright-8-inch-mach-exhaust-fan 

Or 790 cfm for this 230w 53 db fan: http://www.htgsupply.com/products/growbright-10-inch-high-velocity-fan

Since they are designed to cool grow rooms, the website even sells filters (though I would expect them to be the wrong type for EV use). These fans are built to cool hot rooms for hours on end for months at a time.


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## dochiller1 (Feb 7, 2012)

I use a 4" blower and 4" aluminum dryer duct in to one of the motor brush opening and leave the other three open. That way I'm blowing straight on the commutator where all the heat is when the motor is not turning. There is no way to put 800 cfm through a 3.5" duct with out the air going supersonic. 4" duct will do about 250 cfm.


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