# Round 2 -Experts Needed Telsa without the cost.



## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

*Round 2 -Experts Needed Tesla without the cost.*

It all started with a 300zx... 

My original plan was to convert my 300zx once it died, however it never died and many people commented on the curb weight. 

Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication: Minor Faster Learner Tho
The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge)200 Miles
What level of performance you are hoping to get: ~180wk 180+ftlb Top Speed 100+
How much money you are willing to put into your project:30k
What parts you've already considered, if any.: LifePO4, LiIon, AC Motor, Regen (Prior Prius Owner so I know how to use it.)

This is what I would really love to build. However here are my actual NEEDS

Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication: Minor Faster Learner Tho
The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge)40 Miles @80% DOD
What level of performance you are hoping to get: 100HP/100 ftlbs Topspeed 80
How much money you are willing to put into your project:30k
What parts you've already considered, if any.: LifePO4, AC or DC

I'd really love to know if you can buy the "guts" of the Telsa and build your own. 

Must haves:
AC
Heater
Power Steering/Brakes

If anyone could point me in the right direction to start that would be great!


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

EV performance considerations (really, valid for any vehicle) center around two things: 


Weight, or rather, inertia. The less inertia you have to overcome, the lower your cost of acceleration, and the lower the rolling resistance.
Aerodynamic efficiency. Minimizing your CdA will minimize the cost of speed.
Beyond that, you need to maximize the energy density of the battery system, keeping in mind the power delivery capability. Any pack that can give you 200 miles range will likely have no problem maxing out the burst-power capabilities of the motor, controller, and the rest of the driveline.


Unfortunately, low weight and high battery capacity aren't cheap, and $30k is not likely to be enough unless you want to do something like the AeroCivic on ecomodder.com, and spend a lot of time optimizing your aero package while also minimizing the weight of everything...


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

*Re: Round 2 -Experts Needed Tesla without the cost.*



TigerNut said:


> EV performance considerations (really, valid for any vehicle) center around two things:
> 
> 
> Weight, or rather, inertia. The less inertia you have to overcome, the lower your cost of acceleration, and the lower the rolling resistance.
> ...


Been a long time reader/poster and wanted to start a few builds but never had a reason too. The Z Just won't die! Now however I have a much better job and cash on hand. Own car/house no kids, etc. 

200 Miles is doable with a large enough pack hell the Tesla with a 53kW pack does 250. but looking into around 32kW for a cost of 10k or 64kW for 20k so if I can't get 200 miles on 64kW's something is really wrong.

30k does not include the cost of the donner car FYI. This is just for the build.


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

200mi + hoped for:

you're looking at $20-$24k for the battery pack. (1400lb pack assuming CALB 100wh/kg)

You're looking at $6-7k for the *AC* Motor Controller, and you acceleration is going to be SHIT with a car that heavy and the weak AC power. You could wait for the Scott Drive thing over in the controller or motor section.

And then you need to get all the other parts (DC-DC, Power Steering, AC, heating, wiring, contactors, busbars, BMS, etc.)

Required:

Now you can do ~100 miles at $25k total conversion cost...

You can pick (currently) 67HP(before losses) with regen, or 400HP(before losses) without regen. Same cost (+/- $500).


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

*Re: Round 2 -Experts Needed Tesla without the cost.*



Nomad said:


> Been a long time reader/poster and wanted to start a few builds but never had a reason too. The Z Just won't die! Now however I have a much better job and cash on hand. Own car/house no kids, etc.
> 
> 200 Miles is doable with a large enough pack hell the Tesla with a 53kW pack does 250. but looking into around 32kW for a cost of 10k or 64kW for 20k so if I can't get 200 miles on 64kW's something is really wrong.
> 
> 30k does not include the cost of the donner car FYI. This is just for the build.


200 miles is do-able provided the weight of the car doesn't exceed it's load carrying capacity and that the incremental range vs. battery weight curve is still positive at that point. Even with lithium, there's a point where the added mass of the battery carries with it a significant penalty in associated stuff (size, system complexity, etc) such that you don't want to add more.

You should run the numbers on some of the EV range calculators using CdA values of some popular vehicles, and see what it takes to go 200 miles on a charge.

The value of regen braking goes up with higher vehicle mass; with lower aero drag; and with more stop-and-go driving. If you don't do any or all three of these things, then it may be much more pragmatic to build a high performance DC system. Just get some big brakes


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

*Re: Round 2 -Experts Needed Tesla without the cost.*



TigerNut said:


> 200 miles is do-able provided the weight of the car doesn't exceed it's load carrying capacity and that the incremental range vs. battery weight curve is still positive at that point. Even with lithium, there's a point where the added mass of the battery carries with it a significant penalty in associated stuff (size, system complexity, etc) such that you don't want to add more.
> 
> You should run the numbers on some of the EV range calculators using CdA values of some popular vehicles, and see what it takes to go 200 miles on a charge.
> 
> The value of regen braking goes up with higher vehicle mass; with lower aero drag; and with more stop-and-go driving. If you don't do any or all three of these things, then it may be much more pragmatic to build a high performance DC system. Just get some big brakes


Is 
http://www.ev-propulsion.com/EV-calculations.html

A good resource? Because that's what I've been using to calculate.

I'm shooting for between 200-250 Wh/h @ 65mph
If using a dc system 144 volts with 200ah batteries weighting 5.6kg each 545lbs
Sinopoly 200ah black cells 212$ each. 9545$ 
193hp 144x1000a/746 at 5c but need to check the c rating on those packs
Range around 80 miles @ 80% dod

If using a 320 ac system with the same specs
400hp  
204 mile range @ 80% dod
64kw pack ~ 1200 lbs but would need to find a donner car that could support this weight and still come in at under 3200lbs total 
21k in the pack alone
9k left for controller etc

Aero mods:
Air damn
Mirror delete
Wheel skirts
Undercarriage
Weight reduction

Other mods 
0 weight Oil for tranny and gear box
Low rolling res tires


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

http://www.evalbum.com/4099

This is exactly what I was looking for. Now off to find a donner car.


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3116131951.html

Thoughts?


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## Stiive (Nov 22, 2008)

Lol, what happened to the plan of converting the 300zx? I dont think weight is that big an issue in terms of range, but it will certaintly make the car more sluggish. The extra weight is okay if you go AC cus u can atleast regen some back. The 300zx has an awesome CdA too which is good for highway driving. 
No point waiting for the thing to die, it wont... unless its a turbo then u got a chance... I bought a NA one 3-4 years ago so i could convert it to electric after this discussion (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...onversion-mileage-eqns-180sx-300zx-24066.html), still waiting for it to die  That was a long time ago

Here is a guy in Australia who has converted a 300zx - who knows where he's upto now though, last post was ages ago: http://300zxev.blogspot.com.au/

Anyway, goodluck with whatever you choose in the end. The Porsche is also a good choice... 

AC FTW


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

Stiive said:


> Lol, what happened to the plan of converting the 300zx? I dont think weight is that big an issue in terms of range, but it will certaintly make the car more sluggish. The extra weight is okay if you go AC cus u can atleast regen some back. The 300zx has an awesome CdA too which is good for highway driving.
> No point waiting for the thing to die, it wont... unless its a turbo then u got a chance... I bought a NA one 3-4 years ago so i could convert it to electric after this discussion (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...onversion-mileage-eqns-180sx-300zx-24066.html), still waiting for it to die  That was a long time ago
> 
> Here is a guy in Australia who has converted a 300zx - who knows where he's upto now though, last post was ages ago: http://300zxev.blogspot.com.au/
> ...


Hey stiive great to see you are still around! 
The main reason is the body on the z is pushing 300k it's in bad shape cosmetically been hit a few times minor trim is peeling around the doors ttops are leaking in HARD rain 8 years and the motor is still going strong, but she's seen better days mileage has taken its toll. 

I like the weight on the Porsche but the age bothers me. Maybe a boxster 2000, the hunt goes on


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

Is there any information for the 70lbs ac motor tesla uses? 
Can we buy these?
Is there a website dedicated to totaled cars?

Thx
Nomad


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