# China Hipower-NEW BMS technology:energy balancing



## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Recently Hipower updated the new BMS of ENERGY BALANCING, which applied for patent, this new technology greatly improved the LifePO4 battery pack life and performance,​Hipower BMS use energy balancing instead of load balancing, When charging the BMS begins balancing, and when discharging BMS would auto adjus energy of cells, that is BMS will auto transfer energy from high to low among cells, It keeps all cells in same status as volt, capacity, and keeps the weaked cells away from damaging with the help of other cells offering parts of current. so battery consistency becomes less sensitive and energy balancing could greatly eliminate the negative effect of inconsistence of cells after a period of usage. The whole battery pack could offer constant, stable power.

Normal fuction (introduce ) of Hipower BMS:​Monitoring and controlling the key parameters such as voltage, current, temperature, etc., during charging and discharging, and generate alarms and reaction when any of parameters become out of limits. Also Charger and controller of motor with CAN BUS could receive signal sent by BMS with CAN BUS, they would reaction just in time with the BMS indication. (For BMS with CAN BUS type)

Fast reaction as one whole power system:​Advanced Hipower BMS can offer signal transport and display function, the signal which follow the CAN BUS protocol will be accepted by Charger and Controller of motor also with CAN BUS. That means Charger and Controller will action just in time with the indication of BMS such as over charge protection, over discharge protection, abnormal temperature status, and other limits be set. BMS with display would offer better Human-machine interaction. Users can setting all parameters as they want. The display would show the real time data, also logging data in storage, which can be used in analyzing the whole power system, and alarm signal can also be shown on display.

There is no doubt that all of the above i mentioned means that we are helping you to prevent your battey from damaged and can have a best performence.​So,if you have any interest or inquiry please contact me by email [email protected],I will provide much more details to you.

The battery test could be seem as following,
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...est-report-48v100ah-battery-pack-42528p2.html


The statement, may be the tone is not so well.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=166007#post166007


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## UBCECC (Sep 5, 2009)

Hi, 

I am interested in your BMS. What is the maximum balancing current and what is the price range?


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

thanks for your interesting of Hipower new BMS,
the nominal current and the max current can be customed(both can up to 2000A) to suit for battery pack, also we need to now the battery pack' volt for BMS. the price is based on function: norminal, module, and CAN BUS. the norminal and module price are most the same as other's BMS.

I may suggest you use this new BMS with our Hipower battery pack. for our BMS is designed based on Hipower battery and Hipower battery is famous by quality.

May I know exactly what you apply the battery pack for? maybe I can give some suggestions.


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## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

If Hipower is famous for anything it is for lack of quality.


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

I am glad hear that Hipower updated the NEW BMS technology.
last year i sought Hipower company on internet and interested in their LifoPO4 battey, So,i order one 48V5oah pack to test.Surprisingly, the performence is very good,even in the desperately low temperature enviroment, it can discharge 70% of the ful capacity.and it continuous mileage got 150Km with my 1000W motor.This is the other batteries can not be done.So,i bought a ten 48V50AH battey packs for my Electric Motorcycle.
But at that time they have not installed any device just protection circuit.Absolutely,Hipower battey with the NEW BMS will have a better performence now.and surely i will buy more batteries from Hipower.
\
Now,nothing,...,i do not want to public some flattering words for Hipower company,just share my experience about their battey, hope they are be useful for you.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Oh boy!
Team advertizing!


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

mirro said:


> Now,nothing,...,i do not want to public some flattering words for Hipower company,just share my experience about their battey, hope they are be useful for you.


I call shenanigans. There are too many first time posters on here singing the praises of China HiPower. 

It's pretty obvious in my mind China HiPower has joined the forum under many different names, and is using these other names to post deceptive "unbiased real world personal experience" about how great HiPower is. 

Im not saying Hipowers products are good or bad, but their method for establishing crediblity seems unethical and desperate. Seems suspect that mirro and hipowerkevin both joined at the same time, use the same vocabulary, only have posts about hipower, and both capitalize "NEW BMS"


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

etischer said:


> I call shenanigans. There are too many first time posters on here singing the praises of China HiPower.
> 
> It's pretty obvious in my mind China HiPower has joined the forum under many different names, and is using these other names to post deceptive "unbiased real world personal experience" about how great HiPower is.
> 
> Im not saying Hipowers products are good or bad, but their method for establishing crediblity seems unethical and desperate.


What I posted on forum is all technical articles, it is valuable for most of members, and Hipower really the large LifePO4 battery provider, the LifePO4 battery advantages should be shown to convince people.

I come from Hipower so I called HipowerKevin, I just want to contract people who already have good impression with Hipower. or other competitors dirty strike like EV components, I should let them show proof, that all.


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## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

Look the fact is that your batteries exhibit serious voltage sag under anything more than 1C. Why would anyone pay marginally less for your batteries when they could buy Thunderskies which have a proven track record and are supported by multiple US based retailers?

If you want to prove us wrong send some of your cells to someone stateside for them to do an independent test. 1C doesn't cut it for electric vehicles any way you try to sell it. And it would do a lot if one, just one person who could speak (or at least type) in proper English had something good to say about your products.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

jorhyne said:


> Look the fact is that your batteries exhibit serious voltage sag under anything more than 1C. Why would anyone pay marginally less for your batteries when they could buy Thunderskies which have a proven track record and are supported by multiple US based retailers?
> 
> If you want to prove us wrong send some of your cells to someone stateside for them to do an independent test. 1C doesn't cut it for electric vehicles any way you try to sell it. And it would do a lot if one, just one person who could speak (or at least type) in proper English had something good to say about your products.


We pushed the power type of Hipower battery would offer 3C continous and 5C Max discharge in 2008.
The test report could be seem as following.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42528

We also have old type have small size and weight, offer 1C continuous, 3C Max discharge.

The old capacity type best suit for pure EV and new power type is suitable for hybird EV.

We are sorry if old capacity type using on Hybird EV and got bat performance.

I offer size and dimension comparsion as following, you could easily distinguish between them,
hope those info helps you.











First , post the advantage, technology of LifePO4 or Hipower article.

Second, post the data testing or so from Hipower officially, and comfirm
then as products quality.

Third, for some other one say Hipower good or bad, I could contract them for REAL RESOLVE.

I have not send products to some body for testing yet,
the curves I would post comfirmed officially, I also would find some of people in forum for testing.
And if you buy Hipower battery but could not match those curves,
you may directly send it to us as unpassed quality battery.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Hipower NEVER sold batteries to EV components! but they put Hipower battery on their website.
they sold Hipower battery with no guarantee, we never sell batteries to EV components, We don't know where they come and whether it is REAL Hipower battery.

For some people who buy Hipower from EV competitors may injured from them, This is Why I stand here, speak out those fact. For dirty strike of other competitors damaged Hipower, more people should know


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

etischer said:


> I call shenanigans. There are too many first time posters on here singing the praises of China HiPower.
> 
> oh,i have already taken into account that some people may suspect me.Although i did some explanation in my post.
> I come from a multi-partners enterprise,and the purpose of my postings just share my expeirence.please do not slander me,ok?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

*Every* post you have made since the day you joined has been about how great hipower is. So let me guess, the "multi-partners enterprise" you represent sells, or plans to sell China Hipower batteries? If you want people to believe your product is better you should do so by publishing test data comparing your product to others. 



mirro said:


> "i do not want to public some flattering words for Hipower company,just share my experience about their battey, hope they are be useful for you."


You should be more forthcomming with the fact that *you are a battery reseller*, and have a commercial interest in the success of China HiPower. 




mirro said:


> "It is sounds perfect that headway can do 5c all continuous."





mirro said:


> "maybe you can try using the lifepo4 battery from China Hipower. One of my US friends bought some 26650 cells used to electric drill.He told me they have a good performance and highly recommended them to me"


 


mirro said:


> "could you help me conform it's validity? i just wondering that the headway company was how to got that merely a little heat in the condition of 10c. "





mirro said:


> "Absolutely,Hipower battey with the NEW BMS will have a better performence now.and surely i will buy more batteries from Hipower."


 





mirro said:


> etischer said:
> 
> 
> > I call shenanigans. There are too many first time posters on here singing the praises of China HiPower.
> ...


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

etischer said:


> *Every* post you have made since the day you joined has been about how great hipower is. So let me guess, the "multi-partners enterprise" you represent sells, or plans to sell China Hipower batteries? If you want people to believe your product is better you should do so by publishing test data comparing your product to others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Reviews should be written by objective customers, not resellers pretending to be objective customers.


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

etischer said:


> Reviews should be written by objective customers, not resellers pretending to be objective customers.


Did i pretended to objiective customers? i am not a reseller but a truely long-term customer of Hipower!


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

mirro said:


> i am not a reseller but a truely long-term customer of Hipower!


this is not what you said in the "*Help shopping for cylinder cells* " thread




mirro said:


> i am a battery reseller and prepared to buy some Hipower battery.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Ohhhhhhhhh! Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

*sigh* I've been following this thread for a little while.

If the sellers like this one were simply open and honest none of this would ever happen. I don't understand why some sellers use silly high pressure tactics or setups like this.

Not all are like that and I have delt with some more professional contacts in China. All I can think of is maybe they are not experienced enough to realize we don't have patience for this sort of crap.

The way that some of them respond when pressed leads me to believe a lot of this could be lack of experience. Not that you guys said anything rude or wrong so far, but this is not how you respond to a potential customer base on record. You challenged him, and he cracked.

Normally, I would suggest deleting the thread, but I am thinking maybe locking it for future reference would be better in case something like this happens again.


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

etischer said:


> this is not what you said in the "*Help shopping for cylinder cells* " thread


Oh,god.. i am very admire your remarkable detective ability.My dear friend i want to remind you that do you have a thorough undertanding of my so-called 'reseller'.my meaning is that i am not Hipower's reseller but that not mean i am not the other company's ,right/??i I think that is a misunderstanding.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

mirro
We know who you are.  

Go sell "Crazy" somewhere else............we're all stocked up here. 

Admin. - please don't erase this thread. Others need to know who this person is.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

> Admin. - please don't erase this thread


I second this, lock if you have to but no erasing.


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## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

hipowerkevin; said:


> Hipower NEVER sold batteries to EV components! ]
> 
> No But you have sent us a sample to test and it was not anywhere near the quality of other batteries we carry. That is why they are *NOT *on our website.
> 
> ...


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Powered By DC said:


> hipowerkevin; said:
> 
> 
> > Hipower NEVER sold batteries to EV components! ]
> ...


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## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

Kevin,

Yes one of our people did put the Hipower batteries on our website for a few days with the disclaimer you mention. That person did not consult me prior to putting it on our website and I have since removed it from our website because I will not sell batteries I can not stand behind. 

In the timeframe that it was on our website we sold exactly one 100ah Hipower battery to one customer who also bought one TS and one SE 100ah batteries. He has since posted about his testing results on those 3 batteries on this forum. 

That one 100ah Highpower battery we sold him was the one you sent to me and if you would like I can post the PI here. 

I have not sold lots of Hipower batteries and I have no intention of doing so unless your quality and performance improve dramatically.

If you feel that your batteries have improved since you sent me the last sample then by all means send me another and we will test it on our battery analyzer

In the mean time quit complaining that no one is buying your batteries. It has nothing to do with our company, and everything to do with the quality and performance of your product

Dave Kois
EV Components, LLC
http://www.evcomponents.com
360-915-7415 office
253-988-5020 cell
Skype dkoisii


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## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

Dave Kois = The Man.

Also EVComponents is a great company. I don't think people give them enough credit for single-handedly bring LiFePo4 batteries into the price range that a lot of DIYers can afford.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

Powered By DC said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Yes one of our people did put the Hipower batteries on our website for a few days with the disclaimer you mention. That person did not consult me prior to putting it on our website and I have since removed it from our website because I will not sell batteries I can not stand behind.
> 
> ...


We update our new type Hipower battery, for 3C norminal discharge current, 5C burst.

The 3C discharging curve, dircharging curve in different temperature, and life cycle curve.

We are confident of those curve because we take those as judgement of quality.

Hope those infomation would help you well.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> The ture fact is ThurderSky is not so well as Hipower !!!


http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5607&d=1264143292


Looks like Hipower has the highest temperature rise, the lowest capacity, and deepest sag. How do you figure HiPower is better than Thundersky or SkyEnergy?


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

We have two types, one for pure EV, one for Hybrid.

The old type for pure EV is not suitable for large current.

The new type could offer 3C discharge for large current demand.

The old type for pure EV especially for It's smart size and weight.
For example: HP 3.2V40AH 1.34KG 56*110*160mm || TS 3.2V40AH 1.6KG 46*116*190mm

later I could offer customer phrase of Hipower in pure EV.
Anybody in Pure EV application need old types were wellcome.

But new type for hybrid EV need people like you using then find the truth.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

As I mentioned in one of your other posts, 1C is NOT good enough for an EV.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The obvious solution for you is to send Dave at EVcomponents another cell to test. We all trust him here so we will feel confident in his reports. He has no reason to lie, and if your cells are good and cost competitive I'm sure he'd be happy to sell them.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

We are manufacturers, we could sell batteries directly to customer, and customer would have best prices .
If , we sell cells to EV components, and EV components sell to customer,
who would afford the prices ? the end customer.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

True but EVC acts as a distributor, buying in large quantity, getting better prices, and saving on shipping costs as well as arranging the shipping and dealing with customs. As a large buyer they have more leverage than an individual if there are problems, and many of us feel more comfortable with a local company if we have some bad cells. 
We can also buy directly from TS and SE but it's easier to deal with EVC and we get bulk pricing and shipping rates.


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## ahambone (Jan 13, 2009)

hipowerkevin,

The vast majority of battery purchasers have no interest in dealing directly with the manufacturer. This feeling is stronger for manufacturers over seas. The delays in communication, barriers in different languages, and different understandings of what behavior is warranted and what behavior is not warranted are often too complicated to organize with an over seas manufacturer. 

American customers would prefer to deal with a domestic vendor because of issues like Taxes (import duties, port taxes, sales taxes, etc). The average american also does not have access to a shipping port to sign import paperwork for orders of physically large batteries. Air Freight is too expensive for these types of cells. To be honest, I doubt Hi Power is interested in dealing with 100 customers who all spend between $2500 and $5000 who all ask the same questions over and over again and all may want to return or exchange a cell for warranty/failure reasons.

This is why the reseller/vendor model works better. The vendor tests the cells first, and rates their quality independent of the manufacturer's suggestions. This second, independent source of testing is important to the battery purchaser because two people who are not conspiring for profit agree that the product is acceptable for sale and meets the documented specifications. If the tests at the vendor fail then the vendor choses not to carry the product because the vendor does not want its reputation to suffer. 

The easiest path for a manufacturer like Hi Power is to establish a relationship with a US vendor like EV Components. They take care of getting cells imported to the US and testing. They take care of domestic shipping arrangements for people who want to buy they cells once they are in the US. For these services US consumers (and consumers from other countries - Canada, UK, etc) are willing to pay a fee or small mark-up because these services are valuable. They prevent buyers like us from having to deal with the administrative issues of shipping over seas.

(Disclaimer: I do not work for EVComponents. I have no interest in their success - although I have bought LiFePO4 cells and connection cables from them in the past and will probably do so again in the future. They have earned my trust as a vendor.)

Kevin, do you have any tests where you show repeated 2 minute bursts of drawing 300 amps from your 100 amp-hour cells? What do the voltage drops look like under these load conditions? Many DC drive electric cars routinely pull 300 amps from the batteries when accelerating away from a traffic light or when climbing a hill. I can easily pull 300 amps for 30 seconds under the right conditions.

Cheers,
--Adam


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

hipowerkevin said:


> We are manufacturers, we could sell batteries directly to customer, and customer would have best prices .
> If , we sell cells to EV components, and EV components sell to customer,
> who would afford the prices ? the end customer.


My biggest frustration in dealing with China companies is that I cannot pay with a credit card or Paypal. We are required to transfer 100% of the money with a bank transfer in advance. That leaves no ability to dispute if there is a problem.

Most of our customers in the USA (or other countries) pay by credit card or Paypal. If there is a problem, they know that we (EV Components) are in the USA and we have to respond to the legal system here. So customers have more comfort dealing with a company that is based here and subject to the same laws.

There have been a large number of instances of USA customers paying for products with wire/bank transfers, then the company in China claims they never received the money. I just heard that happened to Synkromotive for one of the components for their controllers. 

It is risky doing business with small manufacturers in China. It requires a lot of trust.


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> As a large buyer they have more leverage than an individual if there are problems, and many of us feel more comfortable with a local company if we have some bad cells.


That is one of the biggest advantages that we have. Since we purchase $200,000+ per order and are regular buyers from ThunderSky, Headway and Sky Energy, we have no problems getting our warranty cells included on each container. The manufacturers want more large orders so they honor the warranty promptly when we inform them.

With a small purchase of $5,000 made one time, I am not so sure that the China factories would be a huge rush to deal with those issues.

We often have odds lots of different cell sizes in our Seattle warehouse so we can handle the occassional warranty claim quickly. 

*In the past 10,000 cells from ThunderSky we have had only 6 cells replaced under warranty.* The quality has definitely improved from years ago.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

EVComponents said:


> My biggest frustration in dealing with China companies is that I cannot pay with a credit card or Paypal. We are required to transfer 100% of the money with a bank transfer in advance. That leaves no ability to dispute if there is a problem.
> It is risky doing business with small manufacturers in China. It requires a lot of trust.


Yeah, as you said, it is risky doing business with small manufacturers in China.

But Hipower do have distributers in USA, if someone do have interesting with Hipower battery, contract with me and I would tell him where is the nearest distributer to him, local servise also could be offered.

For Hipower battery really have such great performance, try for it may be a better choice. there are many companys do LifePO4 battery usiness in USA, we also have cooperation with them.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> But Hipower do have distributers in USA, if someone do have interesting with Hipower battery, contract with me and I would tell him where is the nearest distributer to him, local servise also could be offered.


Why does it need to be a secret who your distributors are? If you have distributors in the USA why not make this public information? Nobody want's to wire $10k to someone they don't know in China to buy batteries, especially if there is a USA distributor we can deal with instead.


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

etischer said:


> Why does it need to be a secret who your distributors are? If you have distributors in the USA why not make this public information? Nobody want's to wire $10k to someone they don't know in China to buy batteries, especially if there is a USA distributor we can deal with instead.


Distributors:

Mr Carl, Utah, http://www.evequipmentsupply.com/ 
801-566-7744
801-716-3535

Mr Ken, VA, [email protected]
757-333-0711


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Emm... I think Ken Curry of LionEV is in jail... multiple counts of fraud including his involvement in LionEV. You might want to re-think using him as a distributor, or atleast do a Google search first  I hope you have not shipped him any product or given him any money. 


Here is a quote chosen at random:

I paid Ken $36,000 for two Ford Ranger conversion kits without knowing about his past. Ken promised the kits would ship out the next day and we'd receive them in about a week. 
After two weeks nothing had arrived. I was unable to reach Ken but my partner Les managed to get through to Ken's phone to ask for a tracking number. Ken said there was a problem with some diodes and the kits would ship in a day or two.
After four more weeks went by, during which time neither my partner and I were able to get a hold of Ken be either email or phone, I started looking into Ken Curry's background. I discovered Ken's 2006 conviction. From United States v. Curry, 461 F.3d 452 (August, 2006): 

"In the summer and fall of 2004, Curry was on the verge of financial ruin. His security system installation company was over ninety days past due on a $138,000 debt, and he owed the IRS $98,000. The government contends that Curry turned to his "hobby" of dealing in coins to get out of his financial straits. At the end of summer 2004, Curry placed up for auction on eBay large volumes of one-ounce gold coins, known as "Gold Eagles."1 Between August and October 2004, Curry sold 381 Gold Eagles to twenty-one different buyers. According to the government, Curry made a series of false representations in his advertisements of the coins. For example, he represented that (1) the coins were located in Virginia Beach, J.A. 786; (2) the coins were "part of a larger estate auction that [would] take about three months to complete," id. at 777; (3) the coins were of exceptional quality and likely only to have been seen by the mint or the original buyer, id.; and (4) he would provide a full refund to all unhappy buyers, id. at 787. The twenty-one buyers paid Curry approximately $148,000 for the 381 coins. Of the 381 coins purchased, Curry delivered only 44 of the coins, which represented only partial deliveries to two purchasers." 

He was tried and convicted for mail fraud under 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and wire fraud under 18 U.S.C. § 1343 on May 31, 2005.

The Appeal decision: http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/055090.P.pdf

I also discovered that through LIonEV.com Ken had also victimized Ram Mohan of Austin, TX in December 2007, charging him more than $40,000 for a plug-in hybrid vehicle he never delivered. Instead he delivered a Ford Ranger converted to electric propulsion, but with far cheaper and less efficient lead acid batteries in place of the lithium ion batteries Ram had paid for. 

In January 2008, Christopher D'Andrea of Berkley, CA paid Ken a similar amount for a Ford Ranger converted to electric propulsion and featuring lithium ion batteries but has not received the truck at all. To date he's received partial repayment totaling just over $5,000.

A Massechusetts customer bought one of the "Ford Ranger Hybrid Plug In Conversions" - only to discover that Ken's 'conversion' was an electric cord stuffed in the grille and fed back into the frame... leading nowhere. Seriously. The other end of the cord wasn't hooked to anything, and the charger was nonexistent. 

I sent Ken an email informing him if I did not receive valid tracking numbers for the two complete kits this week I'd take action to reclaim the funds I'd paid him. Ken telephoned me the next morning, blaming the delay on metal parts not yet polished by the shop Ken subcontracted to perform the conversions; a Predator Performance in PA

Two trucks have been delivered, one to a dealership in California and one to a woman in Texas - shipped to the respective customers by Predator Performance. The shop manager of Predator Performance, Jeff, contacted me today in response to a message I left on their answering machine. Jeff informed me that the two vehicles shipped were the ONLY two vehicles their shop have ever converted for Ken and NO metal components for kits have been picked up - nor even paid for - by Ken or LIonEV. Furthermore, Jeff informed me, Predator Performance doesn't offer any polishing services and that is not the cause of any delay.

Robert Krask, the Federal Prosecutor who handled Kenneth Curry's prosecution for fraud, has indicated via email to my fellow victim Chris D'Andrea (an email forwarded to me by Chris) that despite the vacated sentence Ken previously served 12 months, before being released pending his 2d appeal. That appeal is now complete and the appellate court returned jurisdiction of the case back to the district court. Bob Krask filed a motion requesting that the district court enter an order directing Mr. Curry to report to the U.S. Marshal to serve the remaining jail sentence.

As of this writing I've been informed that Ken has been re-arrested and is to serve 24 months for his previous conviction. Curiously, Ken's site continues to be updated. He claims an electric Fiero as "Another LIonEV project" when he obtained photos of said Fiero from someone else's flikr account. He claimed to be working on a DeLorean conversion with the Bonham District Independent School Board - the board emailed him demanding he remove their name from his site, and it's been removed.

But even though Ken is behind bars, I am still out a lot of money.



hipowerkevin said:


> Distributors:
> 
> Mr Carl, Utah, http://www.evequipmentsupply.com/
> 801-566-7744
> ...


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

EVComponents said:


> My biggest frustration in dealing with China companies is that I cannot pay with a credit card or Paypal. We are required to transfer 100% of the money with a bank transfer in advance. That leaves no ability to dispute if there is a problem.
> 
> Most of our customers in the USA (or other countries) pay by credit card or Paypal. If there is a problem, they know that we (EV Components) are in the USA and we have to respond to the legal system here. So customers have more comfort dealing with a company that is based here and subject to the same laws.
> 
> ...


You can trust Hipower as much as possible,Hipower not a small company.They have 5 years production related experience in battery filed.They have good reputation from USA customers,and also has many distributors in USA,you can call them for inquiry if you cant believe them.

Hipower company just release their newest production,if you have interest to test please contact Kevin,and pray for dont said some irrelevant matters like reputation or other dirty words here.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

mirro said:


> You can trust Hipower as much as possible,Hipower not a small company.They have 5 years production related experience in battery filed.They have good reputation from USA customers,and also has many distributors in USA,you can call them for inquiry if you cant believe them.


Then why did Kevin only list 2 distributors, one of them being a known criminal?


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

JRP3 said:


> Then why did Kevin only list 2 distributors, one of them being a known criminal?


Dear JRP3,

Please don't use some words like "criminal", it is too hurt.

For Mr Ken. you'd better directly contract with him better than google,
you trust search engine as legal force, however , it not enough

also you could contract Karl, for he have sold battery more than 35 years.

Let get back to battery, I insist on that, if you using Hipower battery, you remark on Hipower we are welcome, but if not, please don't attack on me.

Once again, Our power type for 3C continous battery is very well, the old type for 1C continous is most for pure EV, later I would put testing report on for your reference.

I would give more distributer on it later. 

*I think real test report for people is useful, and main distributor in USA would let people have convinance on products, I am not advertising I just put DATA or techinal or statement on as Hipower offical. *


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## hipowerkevin (Jan 14, 2010)

position for distributors


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

He was convicted of fraud, that makes him a criminal. He has stolen money from many victims, and yet you want us to entrust him and you with tens of thousands of dollars? These are not internet rumors, links to the legal court documents were provided as proof he was convicted of fraud. This is the Ace team you have setup to handle distribution of HiPower products?

Here is the link again:
http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/055090.P.pdf




Another random quote about Ken Curry:

I sent $16, 000 to Ken Curry of LIONEV for a Lithium Ion Battery Pack with BMS, assembled. After a year of promises and ignored emails and phone calls, I have still received nothing!!!

He doesn't accept Credit Cards because he can't get a merchant account from ripping too many people off. Dont fall for his lies. He doesn't even own the pictures on his site. He stole them off the ev forums and photoshopped them!!! 

I've already contacted his local police department and will be filing a lawsuit this year.




hipowerkevin said:


> Dear JRP3,
> 
> Please don't use some words like "criminal", it is too hurt.
> 
> ...


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Highpowerkevin,

Please stop trying to fix a perceived product problem with a pencil and words. That just won't work. Americans are not as a general class stupid. I get an impression from the way you present your information that you beleive we are. 

Yelling a bit of *misinformation* repeatably and loudly will not make it true. Yelling a bit of *un proven* *true information* repeatably and loudly will not make it believable.

Proof works!

As an example,If a company over here was having a product problem like this, a test sample would have appeared Fed Ex or UPS overnite on the doorstep of both an independant testing facility as well as the challenging company.

If your product is so good prove it. It is worth it to expend a few dollars to supply test samples to qualified agencies and users to build a good reputation.

If the samples to prove the quality are not forthcomming people will be wondering why.

If you do this once, it will go a long way to prevenyting this kind of thing from happening again. If your test documents match those of independant testers you will go a long way to gaining the customer confidence you want. 

Try doing business like this over here and you might get a nice supprise.

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I had placed this posting before I saw the information you placed your new thread that fully explains where the information came from and exactly where and how the data was obtained. I will study the charts and listen to the experts. The charts you placed previously in this thread. had no information about where the data came from

Thanks for making the information available.
END EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> Yelling a bit of *misinformation* repeatably and loudly will not make it true. Yelling a bit of *un proven* *true information* repeatably and loudly will not make it believable.
> .


 why did you say *misinformation *about those news,diachage curve,distributor directory,all listed at DIY forum in the light of people's inquiry.
In addition,They will not release this information, if not confirmed.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

mirro said:


> why did you say *misinformation *about those news,diachage curve,distributor directory,all listed at DIY forum in the light of people's inquiry.
> In addition,They will not release this information, if not confirmed.


mirro,

There is an edit in my previous post now that points out that you created a new thread with some test information that also lists the data source.

When using the terms *misinformation *and* un proven* *true information,* I was making a general statement. Too many times I have see claims of this or that made and repeated as though they were true with the expectation that we would eventually beleive it. Lets face it I can create a chart or table using any number of programs, just because I created it, doesn't make it true.

But even so, the chart information that was placed previously in this thread had no source information and so was useless. Without knowing where it came from so it can be verified makes it suspect. 

The new thread started with this testing information including the source of the data is a much better way and should be linked.

I want to see a good inexpensive battery that can be trusted. The more manufacturers that are supplying and developing the better off the end users are. But even inexpensive LiFePo batteries come to a good hunk of money so we all want to be sure.

A final point why all of the HOO RAH just a simple post of the discharge graphs and documents at the beginning would have been much simpler.


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## mirro (Jan 13, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> When using the terms *misinformation *and* un proven* *true information,* I was making a general statement. Too many times I have see claims of this or that made and repeated as though they were true with the expectation that we would eventually beleive it. Lets face it I can create a chart or table using any number of programs, just because I created it, doesn't make it true.
> 
> But even so, the chart information that was placed previously in this thread had no source information and so was useless. Without knowing where it came from so it can be verified makes it suspect.
> .


 jim,
For what you said about a spurious table is credible .but you can not sure whether they make a false yet.So,only let's customers make some appraises for them,other people without test those production will not have *qualified * to comment on that.
You say you cant open that link,but i could.


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

hipowerkevin said:


> Hipower BMS use energy balancing instead of load balancing, When charging the BMS begins balancing, and when discharging BMS would auto adjus energy of cells, that is BMS will auto transfer energy from high to low among cells,





hipowerkevin said:


> the nominal current and the max current can be customed(both can up to 2000A)


I know everyone jumped on the battery bit ... but ,

This seems like a rather crazy claim for a BMS.

2,000 A that can be transferred individually among each of the cells... for an entire battery pack of how many different cells ... each going at different rates... and it can do it actively while the vehicle is charging or while the vehicle is discharging. 

A 40 cell battery pack could be transferring up to 2,000 A among 40 cells while they are being charged and or discharged? ... that's handling like 40,000 A PLUS whatever the vehicle is charging or discharging .... 

That is just crazy... how big size and weight is this monster BMS?

Is there any 3rd party demonstration of this monster BMS?


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## roger (Jan 24, 2010)

I´ve got this datasheet below from Kevin, i hope this helps. 
For more information please contact him.

Roger


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

hipowerkevin said:


> Dear JRP3,
> 
> Please don't use some words like "criminal", it is too hurt.


Sorry it hurts, but it's a public FACT.


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Sorry it hurts, but it's a public FACT.


I guess he could claim he was just wrongly convicted and is innocent. I don't know enough about the case to say one way or the other... and don't care enough to be honest to spend the energy to look into it.

But , innocent or not ... convictions like that will ruin a business even if they are later vindicated.


For me the 2,000 Amp per cell claims of the BMS just seem crazy ... that is like a 6+ kW current controller for each individual cell.... for an entire battery pack??? just doesn't seem right.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I suspect 2000A is the total sum for all the currents in all the cells. If you have 100 cells, each cell can shuttle 20A into or out of a common DC bus. I dunno, I'm only guessing. 




IamIan said:


> For me the 2,000 Amp per cell claims of the BMS just seem crazy ... that is like a 6+ kW current controller for each individual cell.... for an entire battery pack??? just doesn't seem right.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

IamIan said:


> I guess he could claim he was just wrongly convicted and is innocent.


He could, but we've had people on this board who have been ripped off by him as well, so.....


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## IamIan (Mar 29, 2009)

etischer said:


> I suspect 2000A is the total sum for all the currents in all the cells. If you have 100 cells, each cell can shuttle 20A into or out of a common DC bus. I dunno, I'm only guessing.


Now that at least would make sense.

But it also means allot of additional connections ... in addition to the battery cell connections to make your pack ... you would need another connection going from each battery cell to this BMS ... that cable could be smaller sense it would only be doing ~20A or so... but it would be a logistical issue to keep in mind... and it would have to be done carefully as that cable is high-voltage potential.

The concept is a nice idea... but there have always been technical issues that prevented people from marketing this type of thing before... which is why generally most people just use shunts during charging to balance in a BMS.

So if the BMS is for real ... I look forward to seeing some feedback from people about it... I don't tend to like being the guinea pig ... I've been burned a few times like that... So I generally try to avoid being first when I can.


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

We are doing testing with Manzanita Micro on cells right now.
We are verifying the claims of ThunderSky, Sky Energy and Headway and building our own comparison charts.

If Hipower would like to send us a few cells, we will be happy to provide a 3rd party review on the performance of their product.

Rich Rudman at Manzanita Micro has the equipment to do serious testing for us. His shop is about one hour drive from our warehouse.

Thanks,
James Morrison


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Good to hear. How soon do you expect initial results?


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