# EnerDel Battery Modules



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

I have been using EnerDel batteries on competition vehicles for several years and have been impressed with them. I have not had to buy these batteries personally as they were either sponsored or purchased by the race team owner. Recently I became an EnerDel owner because my Think EV is powered by a 24kWh EnerDel pack, so I use them most every day. For the most part, EnerDel products have been unavailable to the DIYer or very expensive if found.

Just recently a couple of vendors started offering EnerDel batteries for sale. Richard Hatfield (team owner of Lightning Motorcycle fame) and his company, http://www.lightningmotorcycle.com/ sells them. Also there is http://elithion.com/battery_blocks.php and http://evolveelectrics.com/Enerdel.html

Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in any of those companies or in EnerDel. I am friends with Richard Hatfield and have participated as builder and crew for the Lightning MC race team.

I post this thread to inform the readership that EnerDel has sold off some excess inventory and some attractive prices can be found for those interested. Product specifications can be seen at the EnerDel website or evolve or elithion. I have obtained some sets for a couple personal projects.

2nd Disclaimer: I have acquired some extra surplus EnerDel modules which I intend to sell and do have a financial interest in doing so. I will post in the marketplace with details.










Note to moderator: If this is deemed inappropriate for this forum, please move it to the marketplace or where ever.

Note to members: I think there is opportunity to get a quality battery at very reasonable cost. I'd like to say made in USA, and a large part of the product is made in Indianapolis but I think there is some content from south of the boarder and EnerDel ownership is now Russian. This is definitely not Chinese. An EnerDel engineer told me last year they had 3 million cells in the field without a cell failure.


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## kerrymann (Feb 17, 2011)

I saw this on evolves's website and came to post it here but you beat me to it Major. The cycle life and calender life looks good but the 15C peak discharge and 5C cont charge for the power cells is really what caught my eye.  I was going to buy a couple cells to do some testing of my own as I want more capacity and don't want to go through the trouble of more A123 pouches and trying to find a reliable supplier seems to be impossible. Evolve however has been great to work with.

Sure these cells are not as cheap as CALBs but when you compare the $/kwh is not bad at all and these have a much more powerful rating. You shouldn't compare AH since it appears the Hard Carbon/Mixed Oxide has a 3.65 nominal voltage. For me the extra money is well spent going to a very reputable supplier and a large about of local production.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

How much would a 15kwh pack cost for my project?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=56278


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sunworksco said:


> How much would a 15kwh pack cost for my project?


I currently have 10 modules on hand. Each is nominally 1.5kWh and I am selling them for $480 each. So 15kWh = $4800. See FS thread http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-enerdel-modules-480-86245.html The links in Post#1 also have some pricing information.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

How much weight is that?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sunworksco said:


> How much weight is that?


Please read the referenced FS thread. All the information is there and links to manufacturer's spec sheets. Mass of each module is 15kg from memory.


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

Maybe it would be better to use LiPo battery packs.
I want to keep the weight of batteries at around 150lbs.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

sunworksco said:


> Maybe it would be better to use LiPo battery packs.
> I want to keep the weight of batteries at around 150lbs.


If you're referring to RC Lipo, those can be a handful to assemble into large packs. Some consider them dangerous and irresponsible to use in public in packs larger than a bikes worth. They are notorious for quality failures and most consider useful life in the hundreds of cycles, not thousands like the EnerDel. 

Everyone wants a lightweight high energy battery. Just be careful with your choice


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## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

I would like to get around 50-100 mile range per charge with the complete 600lb. EV, of course this is without the battery pack. I do want to use the most reliable battery.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

sunworksco,
YOU need to do some basic calculations.
If you want to travel 100mls on a 15kWhr pack, you need to design a vehicle that consumes no more than 150Whrs per mile.
Now that could be with any motor or battery, but the numbers are solid.
You will have to find the optimum motor speed and road speed to give you that level of power use.
For example... at 50 mph your power use must average no more than 7.5 kW.
Can your design maintain 50 mph on 7.5kW ?
Or at 30 mph, you must use no more than 4.5kW continuous.
So, the batteries are not the real issue, it is the vehicle efficiency you need to consider most.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Karter2 said:


> sunworksco,
> YOU need to do some basic calculations.
> If you want to travel 100mls on a 15kWhr pack, you need to design a vehicle that consumes no more than 150Whrs per mile...


Actually it should be less than 150. You don't want to discharge to 100% DOD or you'll kill the cells. You can figure out exactly how far you can go, using the specs for the cells, but we generally figure on 80% DOD. Also, we take a percentage off the top of the pack capacity to allow for inefficiencies in the motor and drivetrain. Your trike may be more efficient than the 15-25% commonly used but even a top notch AC motor will lose a little, and the drivetrain a little more. I'd assume at least 10% loss off the top.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Absolutely Todd.
I must remember to be less "approximate" with my examples.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Karter2 said:


> Absolutely Todd.
> I must remember to be less "approximate" with my examples.


Yup, I try to answer for the _general public_. This thread has 1408 views, as I type this, but only 5 people posting in it.


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## midaztouch (Mar 28, 2011)

Major

You been sitting on those batts for some time. Are you ready to try international shipping to Japan

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

midaztouch said:


> Major
> 
> You been sitting on those batts for some time. Are you ready to try international shipping to Japan
> 
> ...


Hello Midaz,

I'll be happy to sell them to you. As mentioned numerous times, the buyer must pay for and make the necessary shipment arrangements.

Good luck,

major


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## nobrush (Jan 23, 2014)

Karter2 said:


> sunworksco,
> YOU need to do some basic calculations.
> If you want to travel 100mls on a 15kWhr pack, you need to design a vehicle that consumes no more than 150Whrs per mile.
> Now that could be with any motor or battery, but the numbers are solid.
> ...


Hi Karter2,
I'm trying to convert my Geo Metro electric car over to something more economical/smart/etc. than the lead acid it was converted to by someone else. I was wondering if you can point me to a good source (book, thread, etc.) to learn about what you're talking about. I'm a mech. eng. but I feel like I need it to be in laymens terms. I need to crawl before I can walk-haa.

Regards,
Bri


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

nobrush said:


> Hi Karter2,
> I'm trying to convert my Geo Metro electric car over to something more economical/smart/etc. than the lead acid it was converted to by someone else. I was wondering if you can point me to a good source (book, thread, etc.) to learn about what you're talking about. I'm a mech. eng. but I feel like I need it to be in laymens terms. I need to crawl before I can walk-haa.
> 
> Regards,
> Bri


Hi Bri,

I ain't Karter2 but as OP in this thread I don't feel like I stepping on this toes. He's certainly welcome to chime in. But anyways, I found a book was available free on-line which helped me years ago. It can provide some basics for you. Check it out.

http://ev-bg.com/wordpress1/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/build_your_own_electric_vehicle.pdf

There is also the forum wiki. It is difficult to search for stuff in this forum unless you have some specific key words. Study a bit and post up questions. We'll try to help 

major


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