# 02 Miata, 200 mile range, 200hp (equivilent)



## cgm12mgc (Dec 28, 2009)

what are we looking at here? thats what i want to do to my miata.... is it possible, if so what motor which batterys ect... im looking at 200kw motors right now

heres a pic


----------



## cgm12mgc (Dec 28, 2009)

to the top! anyone?


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Yep
Its possible
I hope you have a big budget!
I would estimate $150K


----------



## geoffscott1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Just rip out everything that could possibly be considered unnecessary weight, get a $20k set of 200ah Thundersky Lithiums, a $12k+ AC drive and inverter from someone like metric mind, charger/BMS and battery meter, wire it all up and call it done, its possible but as exaggerated very very expensive for the average person. Remember to there is certain things that may be outside of your skill set and have to be contracted out (most commonly adapter plate milling). If you need more specific info browse the forum for part specific topics and start looking around at available parts, and conversion that have been done already that may be similar (these will not be in really high supply).

Before doing something like that think about how far 200miles actually is. Its a figure that is really popular because of vehicles like the tesla, but very very few people really commute more that about 30miles a day. Remember when you car is sitting in traffic you might be burning gasoline in a ICE based vehicle but climate permitting you will not be using much electricity (unless you really like to shake the block with your fly beats through a pair of 1000w subs).

Fast
Good
Cheap

You know the drill. 

Cheers.


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2010)

Remember that the 200 mile range is not at 65/75 mph either. Kinda stupid to say a car has exceptional range but most will think they can do that all the time at 65/75 mph like in their ICE. I get 25 miles at 55 mph. Granted mine does not have lithium yet but I doubt I will get 200 miles if I buy 96 volts at 200 AH Thundersky batteries. I can increase my distance considerably but doubtful to 200 miles. I think the worst case range should be used if you want to attract folks. If you can really do 200 miles at full freeway speeds then you have a winner. If not you have deceived and that won't sell. 

I like the idea of lithium and the idea of getting a cool 100 plus miles per charge. That would suit me perfect for almost 100 percent of my driving needs. 

Pete


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Yes its possible, but you didn't mention THE most important part of the project which is the project budget...

Additionally as gottdi mentioned, what speed do you want to accomplish this 200 mile range with? low speed (less costly) or high speed (more costly)

Lets say you want 200 mile range @ high speed (freeway) 70mph
A very lightweight and very aerodynamic car would probably consume 15kw (20hp) @ 70mph..(214wh/mile)

So if you had a 15kwh pack, you could theoretically travel 70 miles in 1 hour @ 70mph....for 200 mile range you would need ~43kwh (which would be 100% Dead, not good for battery health)

200AH lifepo4s are 3.2V nominal and hold an overall 640wh or .640kwh meaning you would need 67 batteries, which would make a pack of 214V & 200AH = 43kwh...

67 batteries @ 220$ ea = ~15,000$ (BMS not included)
At 6kg each cell, the pack would weigh in at 402kg or 884lbs


----------



## neanderthal (Jul 24, 2008)

I agree with everything that has been said. plus with all that battery weight, those 200 ponies are a bit less fun. and 800-1000 extra lbs in a miata chassis will require suspension modifications, and it won't have the incredible miata handling you are used to. And 200 hp from an electric motor would come with a hefty dose of torque. At least 600 lbft probably more. You will need to address the strength of the stock drivetrain.

And you might be surprised at how few miles you drive in ana average day.

What kind of driving/commuting do you do? What are your goals for the car?

You might be happier with a series hybrid setup. Some light, high output batteries that will supply juice for your traction motor; and a light motorcycle engine connected to a generator to let you breach a 40-60 mile range. Powerful enough to sustain speed.

You could maintain a light-ish curb weight, have your 200hp goal, and be able to go 200 miles if needed. But I think you will find that 120-150hp with all that good ev torque along with that long powerband will PLENTY fast.


----------



## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

I'd do something about that number plate too, its got some black scrathes on it, could get you in trouble.....


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> ...
> Lets say you want 200 mile range @ high speed (freeway) 70mph
> A very lightweight and very aerodynamic car would probably consume 15kw (20hp) @ 70mph..(214wh/mile)
> 
> ...


Hi, Bowser
could you show how nominal numbers will translates in real life - or in case if someone want to use batt twice (not 100% dead) : )))
thank you


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gor said:


> Hi, Bowser
> could you show how nominal numbers will translates in real life - or in case if someone want to use batt twice (not 100% dead) : )))
> thank you


sure well simply put you shouldnt take the batteries to 100% if you want 2000-3000 cycles..so 70% is advisable...and with a good BMS even 80% is achievable safely...

so 70% of 200 mile range would be 140 mile range & 80% of 200 mile range would be 160 mile range...

to get 200 miles @ 80% DoD you would need 250 miles at 100% DoD...

250 miles range @ 214V would require a system of 250A nominal...and 53.5kwh

53.5kwh of batteries would require 84 3.2V 200AH cells which would cost approx 18,500$ (w/o BMS) and would weigh approx 1,100 lbs.

*calcs are all rough to provide estimates, again these are based on a vehicle that can maintain 214wh/mile not an easy task with 1000lbs of lithium on board....

If say your usage was 250wh/mile the amount of lead required for 250 miles @ 100% DoD would be approx 63kwh which would require 98 cells of 3.2V @ 200AH & 1300lbs! & 22K$!

combine that weight with a custom tube frame car and fiberglass body panels too keep the total weight under 3000lbs and wa-la "homemade tesla"...


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

thank you, B
one more thing - would you actually be able to squeeze enough kw from battery (20 Hrate) in 1-2-3h? (Peukert effect)
(in our example - 15kw at 70mph - we, let's say, on the edge, ie -would we be able maintain continuosly speed for 3h)?


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gor said:


> thank you, B
> one more thing - would you actually be able to squeeze enough kw from battery (20 Hrate) in 1-2-3h? (Peukert effect)
> (in our example - 15kw at 75mph - we on the edge)


The Peukert effect is low when it comes to lithiums and if you are using 200AH cells (e.g. 250V & 200AH = 50kwh) then cruising at 70mph I doubt you will see over 100A coming from the cells, meaning the draw is 0.5C from the cell (they are rated for continuous use of 4C so you are using a measley 13% of the continuous rated capacity) so i wouldnt worry about those loses too much...

Also, let the experts correct me but I think the lithiums are stated at 1hr rates not 20hr rates...i coud be wrong...


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

so, we chose our pack exatly for 200 ml;70mph;~3h;15kwph - nominal 
question- where is our limitations (if battaries as on pict)? will we be able sustain speed for 3h(to the end)?


----------



## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

gor said:


> so, we chose our pack exatly for 200 ml;70mph;~3h;15kwph - nominal
> question- where is our limitations (if battaries as on pict)? will we be able sustain speed for 3h(to the end)?


I do not think you will be able to sustain 70mph for 3 hours with a pack that is 15kwh....

15*k*wh = 15,000wh

If your car uses 250wh per mile then...

Then 15,000/250 = 60 miles to 100% dead...

For 200 mile range to 100% dead (@250wh/mile) you will need 50kwh....


----------



## yarross (Jan 7, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> The Peukert effect is low when it comes to lithiums and if you are using 200AH cells


For the LFP200AHA, I've got 1.024 Peukert exponent and 231Ah Peukert capacity, based on discharge curves from TS specsheet. Quite low.


----------

