# I want to build a very fast EV microcar. (Aixam coupe)



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Looks like you'd be the first so you will be the one telling us. No clue as to the size of motor but being such a light weight vehicle I am sure you could get by with less than 200hp worth of electric motor for that sucker. 

Pete 

Lithium cells would be good but your needs may need to use LiPo style cells instead of the LiFePO4. LiFePO4 would be safer and the CALB has plenty of power.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If you can keep the final weight at 350 kg, you could get 1G acceleration at 50 k/h (30 MPH) which is 22 MPH/sec or about 3 seconds 0-60, using 66 HP. So a 40 HP continuous rated motor should do the job. For racing, you would need to consider what range you really need to cut down battery weight. I figure a 40 HP induction motor would be at least 300 lb or 135 kg, and you might use 1-2 kWh/mile for racing, so for a ten mile race you will need about 15 kWh of batteries at 150 Wh/kg would be 100 kg, which leaves not much left over for the car itself and the driver.

Try http://enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm to play around with the numbers.


----------



## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I must have missed something. What is the "no license" part?


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Coley said:


> I must have missed something. What is the "no license" part?


I is a Euro car that allows those that lost a license to drive a way to drive again. What a crock. Its a friggin car. You can't drive and drink. They lost the license for a reason. Why give them a way to drive where they don't need a license. Here in the US they would still be a problem. 

I don't see them coming here. Legal, license free golf carts. Ouch.


----------



## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

You could try with one of these since you are in Europe:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...nduction-motors-and-controllers-eu-83591.html

Otherwise, I was told there is a company that will be placing the 75kw peak motor in a small electric car similar to this one, with 50 LiFePo4 cells and
a low suspension (rear wheel drive). The car is L7e by EEC certificate.

I can ask for pictures, if you want.

What is your budget and what kind of acceleration and top speed are you
after? Direct drive would probably be good, since this car is not built for
top speed. Above 110km/h would be really pushing it probably.


----------



## anton (Feb 19, 2013)

onegreenev said:


> I is a Euro car that allows those that lost a license to drive a way to drive again. What a crock. Its a friggin car. You can't drive and drink. They lost the license for a reason. Why give them a way to drive where they don't need a license. Here in the US they would still be a problem.
> 
> I don't see them coming here. Legal, license free golf carts. Ouch.


In most Euro countries you need to be 18 to drive a "real" car. These can be driven by 16 year olds, as long as the top speed is limited etc. 



PSTechPaul said:


> Try http://enginuitysystems.com/EVCalculator.htm to play around with the numbers.


Great! 




Red Neck said:


> You could try with one of these since you are in Europe:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...-eu-83591.html
> 
> Otherwise, I was told there is a company that will be placing the 75kw peak motor in a small electric car similar to this one, with 50 LiFePo4 cells and
> ...


Those look perfect! Pictures of the L7e would be great. 
I am not too interested in top speed, want to drag race it. Also, want to shape the budget after what's available on the market. Specs first.
But you don't think it could go faster than 110 km/h regardless of the motor? 
My goal would be to have the fastest accelerating EV conversion ever built.. is that too much to ask for? 


It would be cool to put:

"M40 (40kw, 100kw peak) (0-6000RPM), 45kg, liquid cooled"

One of these on each axle (provided they fit) and convert to 4wd. Also, to distribute a buttload of battery cells evenly throughout the car so the weight distribution would be as close to 50/50 as possible.

Found out that the max weight for this car (with driver) is 672 kgs. How many amps/kwh could you get if you put 150 kgs of cells in it?



(Please don't judge me for this project sounding crazy. I basically want it to be a tiny superfrankencar that is terrifying to drive.)


----------



## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> I is a Euro car that allows those that lost a license to drive a way to drive again. What a crock. Its a friggin car. You can't drive and drink. They lost the license for a reason. Why give them a way to drive where they don't need a license. Here in the US they would still be a problem.
> 
> I don't see them coming here. Legal, license free golf carts. Ouch.


In EU it's not just losing licence after drink&drive, you're simply not allowed to drive any type of motor vehicle on roads, including scooters and microcars (don't know if e-bikes either).

In most EU countries getting drivers licence is long, painful and expensive process, microcars allow limited personal transportation to those who can't have licence because of age <18, health reasons etc. Lower taxes are another advantage.


----------



## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

You could have one motor for each axle but you would need to find proper differential and shafts, if you really wanted 4wd. I am not sure where to
scavenge those but they could be found I guess. It gets expensive though, stacking such motors, controllers and battery 

I mentioned 110km/h because the car does not appear too sturdy and it sounded to me that top speed is not high on the priority list. 

You could perhaps have one motor (for front wheels, with less grip) at
a higher gearing, to allow higher top speed, etc. It would have more difficulty
getting the power via front wheels than the rear motor anyway, so higher
gearing would mean less front wheel spin and higher speed.


----------



## anton (Feb 19, 2013)

Red Neck said:


> You could have one motor for each axle but you would need to find proper differential and shafts, if you really wanted 4wd. I am not sure where to
> scavenge those but they could be found I guess. It gets expensive though, stacking such motors, controllers and battery
> 
> I mentioned 110km/h because the car does not appear too sturdy and it sounded to me that top speed is not high on the priority list.
> ...


Definitely expensive. This is just a thought experiment for now. Front wheel spin was primarily what I was worried about because of all the torque on one axle yeah. So the wisest (and cheapest) solution would be to go with a huge motor in the front, and a huge battery pack in the trunk?


----------



## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

The best would be the motor directly on rear differential and then batteries layed through the chassis so weight distribution is probably 50:50 across
axles I guess. It would be best to try then. The easiest if you repositioned bits
of battery pack a bit and tried which distribution is best.


----------



## barryfiatman (Jan 3, 2014)

We have a 1980 ERAD capucine powered by a 50cc mobylette engine, the car is also a sans permis vehicle (quadricycle). The idea of no licence is also restricted to 45kmph max so that the driver has less chance of having an accident. The argument that the car will cause an accident has been going on for years.
As a small car enthusiast i bought this one because its small and cute, converting to electric would be an option for us, it weighs 185kg only so we thought 10kw would be ok, there are suppliers from China who will sell a complete kit less batteries for about $1300. 
Whats wrong with lion batteries? 
Have you seen the electric cars drag racing on youtube? and the motorcycle that will do 120mph in 0.8 seconds?

I also have a FIAT uno, someone in norway converted one to electric, gave up with lead batteries and changed to lion no probs, much lighter.
Thanks Barry


----------



## MalibuMan (Feb 28, 2015)

onegreenev said:


> I is a Euro car that allows those that lost a license to drive a way to drive again. What a crock. Its a friggin car. You can't drive and drink. They lost the license for a reason. Why give them a way to drive where they don't need a license.


To correct you, quite a lot of people (in the Netherlands) loose their driver license (tempararely) due to speeding, instead of drinking.

If you go 50 km/h too fast you loose it 5-10 days. 70 km/h over the speed limit you loose it 2-6 months. And that's the first time within a 5 year period you are caught.

There are several advantages to a microcar, you can park them on sidewalks without paying as if it were a bike, instead of expensive car parking fees. They are very cheap to insure and pay very little road tax. And you can drive them from the age of 16.


----------



## barryfiatman (Jan 3, 2014)

Sans permis vehicles are very expensive to insure, unless you have a full driving licence. the cars fall into 2 types, people who need them either because they have no licence or are incapable of passing a test. And the older cars that are collectors items, have small two stroke engines and are restricted to 45kph max.
The first types pay a lot for insurance because they are a high risk.
The others fall into the quadricycle category and have very low ins.
I have a 35 year old voiturette which I was going to electrify but at the moment the costs are too high and there are not enough charging points around France yet.
The way to go is at least 10kw and lithium batteries, will have to come later for me.
Barry


----------

