# Is There cheap BLDC Controler?



## Genius Pooh (Dec 23, 2011)

Is There cheap BLDC Controler?

Hi I try to use remy motor It's amazing one...

Motor is just 5000$ but power is 200hp and maximum 450 hp...

Wow... It's amazing but problem is controller..

VAXO recommend me reinhart controller It's too expensive about 10000$

and below motor's power (motor is 600amp and 700vdc max but controller is just 350amp peak..)

Can you recommend me better one or cheapper one?

I know It's not that expensive price but... I try to find optimized one...

And what is used at F-150 truck??

Thank you..


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

For a big truck???

http://topekaelectricmotor.com/files/Baldor-Motor-and-Curtis-123.jpg

check out this full size pickup. Went for a ride in it. Runs like it has a v8 in it..
http://topekaelectricmotor.com/electric-vehicles/ac-project


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Genius Pooh said:


> Is There cheap BLDC Controler?


what do you consider a range for Cheap.


> Hi I try to use remy motor It's amazing one...
> 
> Motor is just 5000$ but power is 200hp and maximum 450 hp...
> 
> ...


the money is in the Peak Voltage Rating and Power Stage.700 VDC is normal to keep the current below 330 AMP.
you looking at 335.6 KW @ 400HP
245KW @700 Volts 350 amps
so you need to define you parameters.


> Can you recommend me better one or cheapper one?
> 
> I know It's not that expensive price but... I try to find optimized one...
> 
> ...


 Simenond is about $4,000 for 100KW


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

bjfreeman said:


> what do you consider a range for Cheap.
> the money is in the Peak Voltage Rating and Power Stage.700 VDC is normal to keep the current below 330 AMP.
> you looking at 335.6 KW @ 400HP
> 245KW @700 Volts 350 amps
> ...


What is this Simenond controller? Where do I find it?


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

That Scott drive think is 150kw peak, and if you want to go cheaper, there are the Kelly controllers.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

marc02228 said:


> What is this Simenond controller? Where do I find it?


sorry about that, Senior moment before nap.
Siemens if you can find a surplus one.

http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/motor.htm
bottom of the page.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Good luck. But the nice thing is with electronics the price will come down!


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

bjfreeman said:


> sorry about that, Senior moment before nap.
> Siemens if you can find a surplus one.
> 
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/motor.htm
> bottom of the page.


That was in 1998! 14 years ago!


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

There just isn't a lot automotive capable BLDC and AC out there, right now DC reigns supreme for the HP&TQ/$ ratio...maybe one day BLDC will be cheap enough...


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Bowser330 said:


> That was in 1998! 14 years ago!


yes, it was the prototype I built my Controller from, with some added info from the Allison EP50.
then I added the 56F803 as the core of the controller using their Application note.
AS I SAID if you can find surplus one.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

While I was trying to reverse engineer my Siemens AC drive, I designed & built a prototype vector phase controller for the Siemens AC motor. I only tried it small scale with a 1kw 3 phase fan motor but it would scale.

I succeeded in getting the Siemens drive to work, so abandoned the backup project.

It strikes me that a BLDC motor is fairly similar and wouldn't be hard to scratch build a controller for.

Can you tell me where one can buy a good value, say 100Hp BLDC?

Does your motor have an encoder for the shaft position or does the controller rely on measuring the back emf to gauge the rotor angle?

Si


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## Genius Pooh (Dec 23, 2011)

SimonRafferty said:


> While I was trying to reverse engineer my Siemens AC drive, I designed & built a prototype vector phase controller for the Siemens AC motor. I only tried it small scale with a 1kw 3 phase fan motor but it would scale.
> 
> I succeeded in getting the Siemens drive to work, so abandoned the backup project.
> 
> ...


hi It's remy's 250 bldc motor you can easily find it in this forum...

Currently I do some trial in court so I don't have enough time and money but I can surely make 1200 hp EV car If there is good controller...hohohooh...It's Pooh's dream


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Genius Pooh said:


> Is There cheap BLDC Controler?


Here is a more or less complete list of all motor drivers suitable for EVs. This is the AC section . The "BLDC" column has a check mark for motor drivers for BLDC motors: Kelly, Navitas and Rinehart.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Elithion said:


> Here is a more or less complete list of all motor drivers suitable for EVs. This is the BLDC section: Kelly and Navitas.


 Thats page has a lot of mis information. BLDC can be trapazoid or sinus and a lot of the AC induction inverters work with BLDC as well.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Arlo said:


> [That] page has a lot of [misinformation]. BLDC can be [trapezoidal] or [sinusoidal] and a lot of the AC induction inverters work with BLDC as well.


I sympathize with the confusion: the difference between BLDC (trapezoidal) and BLAC (sinusoidal) motors is unclear to many people. 

I believe you when you say that some have had success running a BLDC motor with a sinusoidal wave instead of a trapezoidal wave. The motor efficiency would suffer, and the rotation would not be as smooth, but, yes, the motor would still rotate.

I have corrected the wording in that page, based on your comment, to clarify the issue; thank you.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Elithion said:


> I sympathize with the confusion: the difference between BLDC (trapezoidal) and BLAC (sinusoidal) motors is unclear to many people.
> 
> I believe you when you say that some have had success running BLDC motor with a sinusoidal wave instead of a trapezoidal wave. The motor efficiency would suffer, and the rotation would not be as smooth, but, yes, the motor would still rotate.
> 
> I will add some words to that page, based on your comment, to clarify the issue; thank you.


 The wave form from a BLDC motor depends on the mechanical structure of the motor and things like magnet numbers stator tooth size and shape and winding patterns and factors. BLDC can produce and need a TRAPEZOID wave form it just depends on how it was built. All of them should just be classed as PMAC motors to make things more clear. And if you feed a trap wave to a motor with a sinus wave it can make more power but if you feed a sinus wave to a trap motor it will likely make less power. MY controller I'm working on can basically make both waves. What it does is produces a sinus wave but you can up the out put to introduce clipping which will end up a trap waveform.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Arlo said:


> My controller I'm working on can basically make both waves.


Please let me know when it's commercially available, and I will add it to that list.



Arlo said:


> All of them should just be classed as PMAC motors to make things more clear.


I have added that term to the Classification of electric motors page; thank you.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Elithion said:


> Please let me know when it's commercially available, and I will add it to that list.


 IM not sure if thats going to happen. We have a few controller projects on endless sphere forms. But If I do plan a comercial build I will let you know. 

There is about 2-5 more I can think of you have not put on the list. 
Tantum wave sculpter.
Rhinhert makes a BlDC controller
Sevcon makes some BLDC options
Lots of china controllers (cheep but lack proper controll fetures)

I will add more when i have time to search them all again.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

Arlo said:


> Tantum wave sculpter


I think you mean the Tritium WaveSculptor; it's there. Look under 'T' in the AC motor section.



Arlo said:


> Rhinhert makes a BlDC controller


I had it under AC inverter, but I now included it as both an AC inverter and a BLDC driver. Thanks.



Arlo said:


> Sevcon makes some BLDC options


Which ones, please?
"Your search - *site:http://www.sevcon.com/ "BLDC"* - did not match any documents. " They must call it something else.

I *do *appreciate your feedback: keep it coming! Thanks!


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

The Scott Drive is now available and should be added to the list. The first several units are currently in service powering EV's in New Zealand. I am coordinating a group buy to bring the first batch to the U.S. for testing in the next few months.

The Scott Drive 100 is a nominal 400v, 400A for ~160kw max (gross). ~$3000
The Scott Drive 200 is a nominal 400v, 600A for ~240kw max (gross). ~$3600
The Scott Drive 300 is a nominal ~600V, 600A for ~360kw max (gross). ~$?? The 300 is still in the engineering/prototype stage.

I would link you to the pdf on the Greenstage website (they are a dealer in NZ), but then I would be accused of breaking forum rules. I am not selling these controllers, but am interested in testing them.

Cheers


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## Genius Pooh (Dec 23, 2011)

ruckus said:


> The Scott Drive is now available and should be added to the list. The first several units are currently in service powering EV's in New Zealand. I am coordinating a group buy to bring the first batch to the U.S. for testing in the next few months.
> 
> The Scott Drive 100 is a nominal 400v, 400A for ~160kw max (gross). ~$3000
> The Scott Drive 200 is a nominal 400v, 600A for ~240kw max (gross). ~$3600
> ...


Wow Extremly cheap.. If it sales to people I can save 10000 dollars 

It can control remy's motor??? 

I can't find more than remy's motor...


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

ruckus said:


> The Scott Drive is now available.


I find absolutely no info on line on who makes it. All I can find is the reseller, and then only the for the Scott Drive 100 (not for the other models you mention). Do you have the name of the manufacturer, and maybe a URL?



ruckus said:


> should be added to the list.


Actually, it is: it's the last item in the AC motor drive section.

Thanks,
Davide


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## Genius Pooh (Dec 23, 2011)

Elithion said:


> I find absolutely no info on line on who makes it. All I can find is the reseller, and then only the for the Scott Drive 100 (not for the other models you mention). Do you have the name of the manufacturer, and maybe a URL?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think just controller is extremly cheap but... 

scott 100's motor is suck it's 80 kg...

If I need 100kw peak motor I better buy me serise and other...

It's same weight and just 2000 dollars.. Hmm

Good controller but bad motor..'

If It is not fit with Remy motor It is useless..


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

ruckus said:


> The Scott Drive is now available and should be added to the list. The first several units are currently in service powering EV's in New Zealand. I am coordinating a group buy to bring the first batch to the U.S. for testing in the next few months.
> 
> The Scott Drive 100 is a nominal 400v, 400A for ~160kw max (gross). ~$3000
> The Scott Drive 200 is a nominal 400v, 600A for ~240kw max (gross). ~$3600
> ...



My question is, can the Scott Drive at its current stage of development drive the RemyHVH250?


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Not sure if it can control the Remy. The Scott Drive is built to power a group of water-cooled BLDC motors from a different manufacturer. There is a thread in the motor section which is somewhat informative if you don't mind reading past all the bogus info posted by competitors and naysayers. 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/scott-drive-100kw-ac-motor-controller-74638.html

There are some charts and graphs on about page 4 showing prices and power levels. (post #145-149)


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## Genius Pooh (Dec 23, 2011)

What about sevcon gen4 size 10???

Anyone know it's price??

I send email before they don't answer me 

I think It's only 300kw peak controller.. Am I right?


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