# AC motor selection (Are MES-DEA okay to use)?



## apal buggy (May 2, 2010)

hey, i have convert a vw beetle buggy with parts of england

www.everything-ev.com i have the ac engine 7.5kw with peak power off 25kw
the car drives wel with the max speed off 65 miles(100 km/h)

succes


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

apal buggy said:


> hey, i have convert a vw beetle buggy with parts of england
> 
> www.everything-ev.com i have the ac engine 7.5kw with peak power off 25kw
> the car drives wel with the max speed off 65 miles(100 km/h)
> ...


Thanks! i hadn't seen that motor yet. I'll look into it.

--corbin


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

corbin said:


> Howdy! I'm trying to decide on what AC motor to use. I posted in the motors section, but I'm soliciting for more responses here


This isn't really the right section for it, either. Controllers or Technical Discussion would be better. When you actually start building something THEN post here.



corbin said:


> Has anyone here used MES-DEA? If not, what AC motor do you recommend? Below is some info from my other post.


Jack Rickard has gone a few rounds with some MES-DEA products lately. I was going to chastise you for not doing a search, but it seems this forum has a problem with the search term "MES-DEA" so I guess you're off the hook. 



corbin said:


> I'm trying to decide on what motor/controller to get for my bug. I'm leaning strongly towards an AC system (my reasons of AC vs DC on my blog).


Yeah, your reasons are good ones, but I notice that as concerned as you are about efficiency you don't seem to weigh that against the payback time required to balance out the much higher cost per kW of an AC system. Let's compare the two a little more closely:

The Soliton1 (disclaimer: I make) is 98.5% efficient over most of its operating envelope. The typical series 8" to 11" DC motor is going to be about 85% efficient over most of its operating envelope. Combined efficiency will be 83.7%

The average AC inverter will be about 94% efficient while the average _industrial_ 3ph induction motor is about 89-91% efficient. There are some high efficiency models rated at 94%, though, so let's assume that for our AC combo, giving us a net efficiency of 88.4%.

Of course, AC systems also feature regenerative braking, which can help boost range anywhere from 1% to 20% (depends entirely on the terrain, but don't expect to recover 20% unless you live in a very hilly area).

If electricity is $0.10 per kWh (what it costs here, anyway) and the pack stores 10kWh then, neglecting charging inefficiencies, it costs $1.00 to recharge this pack. Further assuming it takes 300Wh/mi to propel a VW Bug at 55mph on the highway (not unreasonable) the maximum range will be 27.9mi for the DC system and 29.5mi for the AC system. Looking at it another way, it costs $0.05 less to drive 27.9mi in the AC system than the DC system. Woohoo - a whole 5 cents!

Since the AC systems available today cost about 3x more per kW than a DC system it's pretty obvious you'll be waiting until the stars burn out to recoup the price difference between the two. More specifically, 1,674,000 miles if the AC system costs $4500 and the DC system costs $1500 ($3,000/$0.05 = 60,000; 60,000 x 27.9mi = 1,674,000)

Perhaps your terrain is so hilly it really begs for regenerative braking, but unless you can't get the needed range from buying more battery capacity then it simply isn't a rational economic decision to go with AC at this time.

My opinion... worth price paid.

EDIT: oh yeah... here's your crickets chirping.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi Jeffery,

Thank you for your information -- this is some information that is very valuable to me as a newbie in the EV arena. 



Tesseract said:


> This isn't really the right section for it, either. Controllers or Technical Discussion would be better. When you actually start building something THEN post here.


I thought this forum was for "All EV Conversions and Builds", and this is a question/post about my EV conversion and build, which I have started. The other forum pages just don't seem to get as much traffic as this one, and I'm really trying to seek people's opinions and thoughts so I can make an informed decision.



Tesseract said:


> Jack Rickard has gone a few rounds with some MES-DEA products lately. I was going to chastise you for not doing a search, but it seems this forum has a problem with the search term "MES-DEA" so I guess you're off the hook.


Yes, I have watched his issues with MES-DEA, which is why I'm concerned about going with MES-DEA. I'm currently leaning towards a motor system from EVE.

Regarding searching, I have done a ton of educated research on this (see my blog posts), but at this point I'm really seeking out help from the community. Ironically, if you search for "MES-DEA 200-330" in google, the top hits are my websites and questions. It is just hard to get info on that system for home-built EVs. Jack's seem to be the only one running that I could find. I apologize if my questions seem naive or uninformed. 



Tesseract said:


> Yeah, your reasons are good ones, but I notice that as concerned as you are about efficiency you don't seem to weigh that against the payback time required to balance out the much higher cost per kW of an AC system. Let's compare the two a little more closely:
> ...(snip)


This is some awesome info! I'll take another strong look at DC motors, and if I do go that route I'll probably end up using your controller (also looks awesome, and has a well written manual). 

But regarding this:


Tesseract said:


> Of course, AC systems also feature regenerative braking, which can help boost range anywhere from 1% to 20% (depends entirely on the terrain, but don't expect to recover 20% unless you live in a very hilly area).


I do live in a hilly area! It was my #1 point in my blog post and my #1 concern is driving up the hill at a decent speed -- ideally 55mph on a 5% grade for 7-8 minutes. What threshold of hills do you think will make AC worth it for regen to extend range? 

Regarding re-cooping my cost on the increased AC system -- for me, it is even worse. I currently get free charging at work. My plan is to charge at work, drive 20 miles home (including the "big hill"), then use regen charging back down the hill and charge at work again. You brought up a great point; if I'm not paying for it, then it is rather moot point, but I do love the idea of getting more miles-per-charge.



Tesseract said:


> EDIT: oh yeah... here's your crickets chirping.


You must be referring to my (same) question sent to the EVDL list, where I commented on the lack of replies. I *really* do appreciate this type of info, and I'm hoping other people will chime in with their opinions and ideas.

Thanks again,
corbin


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The classic VW Beetle supports the motor only by the transaxle, there are no motor mounts (no frame behind the transaxle either.) I don't think the MES-DEA motor would be a fit as it seems to have a problem carrying the majority of its weight off of the end bell.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

Here is a place to check out for a/c kits...

http://www.evparts.com/prod-MT5615.htm


Roy


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

EVfun said:


> The classic VW Beetle supports the motor only by the transaxle, there are no motor mounts (no frame behind the transaxle either.) I don't think the MES-DEA motor would be a fit as it seems to have a problem carrying the majority of its weight off of the end bell.


EVFun -- holy smokes, that is a great point! I will probably have to drop that motor from my consideration, unless I want to do some creative welding/engineering to support the back half.

Do most VW Beetle conversions support the motor *only* by the front motor mounts into the transaxle?



Roy Von Rogers said:


> Here is a place to check out for a/c kits...
> Roy


Thanks Roy! I actually did reference that retailed, and my thoughts on the HPGC/HPEV motors on my post.

If you have any other AC sources, let me know!

--corbin


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

corbin said:


> Do most VW Beetle conversions support the motor *only* by the front motor mounts into the transaxle?


Yes Most of the motors used in EVs have no problem being supported only by the shaft end bell. This ease of mounting is one of the advantages of converting a classic Beetle.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

corbin said:


> EVFun -- holy smokes, that is a great point! I will probably have to drop that motor from my consideration, unless I want to do some creative welding/engineering to support the back half.
> 
> Do most VW Beetle conversions support the motor *only* by the front motor mounts into the transaxle?
> 
> ...


FYI, The Curtis AC controller seems to be the cause of the 15HP continuous rating due to the cooling setup being minimal in its stock configuration. Check out the EViero(electric Fiero) and SwiftE threads here, there is alot of info regarding the thermal aspect as well as modifying the regen to how you'd like it to be. It seems that motor heat might not be a problem and that controller heat shouldn't be an issue if a water cooled plate is added. Jack Ricard's evtv.me site shows this plate. Another consideration is the max voltage of the Curtis AC controller is 130 volts, so you can use 36 LiFePO4 cells at a 3.6 vpc at charge and it won't break that barrier,115.2 volts nominal, I don't think would pose a problem. Some charge their cells a little lower here, that would allow for slightly better performance too with some care and a few extra cells too. It seems they drop to 3.4 volts shortly after charge so depending on charging setup you could eek for more. The power at high RPM goes up well with voltage, I think Tom said into the low 4k rpm range for peak power. The price of the HPEVS is very attractive for an AC solution. At the very least read through those two threads and watch Jack Rickards videos of the White Speedster replica that he is using it in as he said he was going to try and get as many cells hooked to that controller as he could with water cooling, we should be able to find the real limits and you might find it suitable after all. To add to your list of vendors, grassrootsev has it for $4295.

On a seperate note that isn't in this thread about AC/DC, no comm bars to arc with too much current, no brushes to replace(not really that big of a deal in reality) and usually the controllers for AC systems are sized to avoid damage to the motor. DC overamperage equals destruction(comm arcing, quick overheat), but same goes with overloading any motor, knowing the capabilities of the motor is key, therefore not a big deal if correctly implemented.

Tesseract, $1500 for a DC 8"-11" series system? I must be looking in the wrong places. I thought the motors started at nearly $2000, I'll take a closer look.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

EVfun said:


> Yes Most of the motors used in EVs have no problem being supported only by the shaft end bell. This ease of mounting is one of the advantages of converting a classic Beetle.


That wouldn't be a problem for this motor:










http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42684


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Jack Rickard has gone a few rounds with some MES-DEA products lately.


The 'eggshell' end plate is a serious issue, but their mounting method looked to me from the beginning very odd. 

The MES-DEA I'm looking at hasn't got that thin end plate.



> ...Combined efficiency will be 83.7%...giving us a net efficiency of 88.4%.


Your Soliton1 is just as expensive as the TIM600. Well, here in Europe. In the states they come close too.

And the MES-DEA inverter and motor has combined efficiency of more that 90%. Comparable DC drive trains considering power, I've found don't come close.



> Of course, AC systems also feature regenerative braking, which can help boost range anywhere from 1% to 20% (depends entirely on the terrain, but don't expect to recover 20% unless you live in a very hilly area).


I personaly find, the absence of engine braking a very odd and in some cases scary feeling.



> Woohoo - a whole 5 cents!


That's not fair. The costs per mile are in the batteries. Not in the electricity. But you're wright, the difference in miles seems to be insignificant. Perctual it's more. But that's because of the limited range to start with.



> Since the AC systems available today cost about 3x more per kW than a DC...


A MES-DEA 200-330W will cost me including vat and shipping 8k euro, and a TransWarp11 with a Soliton1 will cost me over 6k.

Not even 2x. Can't imagen that the difference in the states is so much more.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

MN Driver said:


> FYI, The Curtis AC controller seems to be the cause of the 15HP continuous rating due to the cooling setup being minimal in its stock configuration.
> ...
> To add to your list of vendors, grassrootsev has it for $4295.
> ...
> Tesseract, $1500 for a DC 8"-11" series system? I must be looking in the wrong places. I thought the motors started at nearly $2000, I'll take a closer look.


Oops... I see how you concluded that, but I was only taking about _efficiency_ with respect to motors in the 8" to 11" range. A DC system for $1500 that is equivalent in_ power _to the $4500 AC system would consist of a 6.7" motor (like a D&D ES-15 or ES-31) and an Alltrax 7245.

Is such a combo powerful enough for an old VW bug? Well, as long as you don't go on the highway - 72V just isn't enough for such hijinks - 450A gives more than peppy response with an ES-31B motor. Neither the referenced AC system nor this DC system will be capable of climbing a 5% grade at more than 15-20 mph. 




MN Driver said:


> On a seperate note that isn't in this thread about AC/DC, no comm bars to arc with too much current, no brushes to replace(not really that big of a deal in reality) and usually the controllers for AC systems are sized to avoid damage to the motor. DC overamperage equals destruction(comm arcing, quick overheat), but same goes with overloading any motor, knowing the capabilities of the motor is key, therefore not a big deal if correctly implemented.


These are valid points, but practically speaking you aren't going to be burning up any motors with a DC system of equivalent power to that $4500 AC system. Hook a Soliton1 up to poor little 6.7" motor and it's fireball city, sure, but that's comparing apples and watermelons


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

CroDriver said:


> That wouldn't be a problem for this motor:


Cro, please don't post that picture unless you've got a price to go with it!


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

You DO realise that you're doing a rather unfair comparsion here, right? The MES-DEA TIM600 seems to have a peak power of 100 kW where the Soliton can give up to about 3 times more power...

Of course, if you don't need more than a couple of ten kiloWatts that AC-system will probably be ok for commuting, but the comparison is still rather unfair. Especially since you'll also need a much higher pack voltage to get 100 kW out of the TIM600 (400 Volt) than you'd need for the Soliton (say 150 Volt to get some sag margin).


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Jan said:


> Your Soliton1 is just as expensive as the TIM600. Well, here in Europe. In the states they come close too.


The TIM600 is rated for 100kW "peak"; The Soliton1 is rated for 300kW continuous. 



Jan said:


> And the MES-DEA inverter and motor has combined efficiency of more that 90%. Comparable DC drive trains considering power, I've found don't come close.


Is this what the manufacturers claim? Sure sounds like it, because in the real world, AC induction motors with better than 90% efficiency are very expensive and AC inverters are ALWAYS less efficient than a DC buck converter (there are always two switches in series in an inverter).



Jan said:


> I personaly find, the absence of engine braking a very odd and in some cases scary feeling.


I don't so much, but I admittedly live in a very flat part of the US. The biggest "hill" around here is the 4% grade Skyway Bridge.



Jan said:


> That's not fair. The costs per mile are in the batteries. Not in the electricity.


No, it is absolutely and totally fair - both systems will require the same amount of battery capacity and so the battery pack will cost the same. 



Jan said:


> A MES-DEA 200-330W will cost me including vat and shipping 8k euro, and a TransWarp11 with a Soliton1 will cost me over 6k.
> ...
> Not even 2x. Can't imagen that the difference in the states is so much more.


Not even 2x more money, but it's for a system with less than half the power... Again.

Oh, and being in Europe you could save a $1000 by get a Kostov 11" motor to go with the Soliton1.

Look, Jan, I'm not saying AC is bad - indeed, eventually EVnetics will be manufacturing an AC inverter - but I am saying that it is more expensive. And it is. If regenerative braking and whatever other benefits (real or just imagined) AC delivers are that important to you to pay 2x-4x as much then go for it. If you are being honest in your analysis of the cost versus the benefits, though, most conclude that AC just isn't a good enough value.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Qer said:


> You DO realise that you're doing a rather unfair comparsion here, right? The MES-DEA TIM600 seems to have a peak power of 100 kW where the Soliton can give up to about 3 times more power...
> 
> Of course, if you don't need more than a couple of ten kiloWatts that AC-system will probably be ok for commuting, but the comparison is still rather unfair. Especially since you'll also need a much higher pack voltage to get 100 kW out of the TIM600 (400 Volt) than you'd need for the Soliton (say 150 Volt to get some sag margin).


Yes, all comparisons are hard. I want minimal nominal 40 kW and a minimal peak of 70kW. And I compare what I can get in that range. Sometimes I have to compare with overkill. But you have to know a TIM600 cost met in Europe 2700 euro. And to get a comparable DC controller here from the states. I'm not much cheaper off. No 3x.

And yes, I want the highest voltage possible to get the max efficiency. Off course I like to add.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

corbin said:


> Hi Jeffery,
> 
> Thank you for your information -- this is some information that is very valuable to me as a newbie in the EV arena.


You're welcome, but it's Jeff_rey_, not -ery. 



corbin said:


> This is some awesome info! I'll take another strong look at DC motors, and if I do go that route I'll probably end up using your controller (also looks awesome, and has a well written manual).


Well... the Soliton1 is vastly overpowered for a VW bug, so not really a "cost-effective" choice. Given how people are really embracing NetGain's new higher voltage/lower amperage motor (i.e. - the WarP11HV) and the long availability of others from the likes of D&D and Kostov, we are revisiting the idea of making a "Soliton Jr."... or a single IGBT controller rated at 300V/500A for not much more than a Curtis 1231C. 



corbin said:


> I do live in a hilly area! It was my #1 point in my blog post and my #1 concern is driving up the hill at a decent speed -- ideally 55mph on a 5% grade for 7-8 minutes. What threshold of hills do you think will make AC worth it for regen to extend range?


Erf.... 55mph up a 5% grade for 7-8 minutes? That is *brutal*. When doing shakedown testing of a Volvo V70 with a Soliton1/WarP9 we drove it up and down the Skyway Bridge (4%) at 65mph... it took almost exactly twice as many motor amps to maintain 65mph up the bridge as it did on the very flat stretch leading up to it. A 5% grade will be even worse. I think the MES-DEA 200-300W system has just enough continuous power rating to manage that, but a 6.7" DC motor + 72V Alltrax is definitely out of the question. You are looking at needing about 45hp at the motor shaft, depending what the GVWR of the vehicle ends up being.



corbin said:


> ...I do love the idea of getting more miles-per-charge.


Sure, it's a natural thing to love!

And even if this extra range doesn't even remotely pay for itself, if it really is important to you, psychologically, then you might not be happy unless you have regenerative braking. I don't have a problem with that - it might not be logical but, well, us humans often aren't - just don't try to rationalize it economically! 



corbin said:


> You must be referring to my (same) question sent to the EVDL list, where I commented on the lack of replies. I *really* do appreciate this type of info, and I'm hoping other people will chime in with their opinions and ideas.


Yeah, I was jerking your chain, and letting you know that there is quite a bit of crossover between the two sites (though, IMO, the EVDL is a bit too much like a private, members-only club at times).


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> The TIM600 is rated for 100kW "peak"; The Soliton1 is rated for 300kW continuous.


Yes, you're wright. Like I said it's hard to get some DC apples and AC apples to compare. 



> Is this what the manufacturers claim? Sure sounds like it, because in the real world, AC induction motors with better than 90% efficiency are very expensive and AC inverters are ALWAYS less efficient than a DC buck converter (there are always two switches in series in an inverter).


I don't know. I have to live with the information I can get. In jack's last weeks friday show the efficiency of the mini seems not bad.



> No, it is absolutely and totally fair - both systems will require the same amount of battery capacity and so the battery pack will cost the same.


In comparing the cost per mile, OK. But in comparing the cost per range, not. And that's for me the only interesting thing to look at in EV's. We all know that electricity is relativly cheap. And that this fact will still make it nearly impossible to break even or be cheaper than a cheap small economical ICE car. In my opinion you should never convert just for economics. 



> Look, Jan, I'm not saying AC is bad...


And I'm not saying DC is bad. Everybody has it's own personal issues. Every conversion is unique. Well, for now. That might rapidly change.

But I simply don't agree with your 2-4x. I experience it a lot below the 2x. What DC should you suggest gives me nominal 40kW with no problems. And costs less than 8/3 = 2500 euro?


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Jan said:


> ...
> I don't know. I have to live with the information I can get. In jack's last weeks friday show the efficiency of the mini seems not bad.


What's "not bad"? I would consider achieving 80% combined motor + inverter efficiency to be "not bad"; hitting 90% would be "very good" while a claim of 92% or higher would be "bullshit".



Jan said:


> In comparing the cost per mile, OK. But in comparing the cost per range, not. And that's for me the only interesting thing to look at in EV's. We all know that electricity is relativly cheap. And that this fact will still make it nearly impossible to break even or be cheaper than a cheap small economical ICE car. In my opinion you should never convert just for economics.


Unless you will be using the EV strictly for commuting to and from work (ie - a fixed and predictable route), you simply won't be able to predict how much extra range you can get from using regenerative braking, and if you can't predict the boost in range you can't determine how much less capacity of a battery pack you can get away with.

See, I agree with you in principle that regenerative braking can boost your range, but if your commute is mostly on a flat highway you will be lucky to even measure an increase in range. If your commute is up and down a mountain pass, though, you might be able to recapture as much as 60% of the energy you spent going up the mountain when you come back down.

This is all I am saying here. You need hard numbers to make an economic case for AC over DC... the economic case to convert to an EV is whole separate issue. I'm talking only about the premium in price you have to pay over and above a DC system to go with AC.



Jan said:


> But I simply don't agree with your 2-4x. I experience it a lot below the 2x. What DC should you suggest gives me nominal 40kW with no problems. And costs less than 8/3 = 2500 euro?


Fine - we'll just agree to disagree. I 'm not familiar with how much things cost in the EU so if you say the difference is much less than 2x then I'll take your word for it. 

As for a DC system that will deliver 40kW nominal "with no problems" for 2500€ well, that's a tall order and you know it. A couple weeks ago I would have recommended a Zilla Z1K-LV + a small Kostov motor... say one of their 8" models, but it looks like the Zillas will be ought of production for awhile.

Should we decide to make a Soliton Jr. then that would, of course, be a most excellent choice...  and it even skews the voltage/amperage specs more in the direction you said you would prefer (ie -achieving a given power with higher voltage at a lower amperage).


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> What's "not bad"? I would consider achieving 80% combined motor + inverter efficiency to be "not bad"; hitting 90% would be "very good" while a claim of 92% or higher would be "bullshit".


I can't find my source where I found that it has 92% efficiency at some rpm's at 400V including the inverter. It's in my spreadsheet where I compare all the bullshit. But, like always, without a reference. And like always I regret that.



> See, I agree with you in principle that regenerative braking can boost your range...


The efficiency too. But my point was that the cost of less efficiency isn't calculated by Wh price at your 240Vac outlet, but in batteries. To get the the same range you have to invest a little more in batteries.



> You need hard numbers to make an economic case for AC over DC...


You're totaly wright, that a DC car will be cheaper to build with the same nominal power, and same range as an AC car. No doubt. We only disagree about the difference in price. 



> Fine - we'll just agree to disagree.


Yep.



> As for a DC system that will deliver 40kW nominal "with no problems" for 2500€ well, that's a tall order and you know it. A couple weeks ago I would have recommended a Zilla Z1K-LV + a small Kostov motor... say one of their 8" models, but it looks like the Zillas will be ought of production for awhile.


Their top 9" motor is rated at 168 volts and can handle nominal 176Amps. Just 30kW. Not enough for me. What I need is their 11" at 192 Volts with nominal 265A. 

That motor alone will cost me nearly 1800 euro. Agree a lot less than the 4000 euro MES-DEA. But noway you'll find a controler that handles that kind of power nominal for less than 1000 euro. Not even a Zilla. 

The price difference between DC and AC is important. That is how much -maybe the imaginary- advantages it offers will cost you. How much is regen worth, or how much is 10% more efficiency worth? That's personal.



> Should we decide to make a Soliton Jr. then that would, of course, be a most excellent choice...  and it even skews the voltage/amperage specs more in the direction you said you would prefer (ie -achieving a given power with higher voltage at a lower amperage).


I'm listening....


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi Jeffery (thanks for the correction),



Tesseract said:


> Well... the Soliton1 is vastly overpowered for a VW bug, so not really a "cost-effective" choice.


I'm okay with vastly overpowered  -- but let me know if you need someone to test a Soliton Jr. I'm happy to buy beta hardware and work out the issues. I also like that you are clearly very passionate about your products and I like to support people like you. 



Tesseract said:


> Erf.... 55mph up a 5% grade for 7-8 minutes? That is *brutal*.


Yes, it is!! It's a famous hill over in the CA bay area called "Highway 17". A lot of people on EVDL are familiar with it, since it's the main passage from SJSU to the beach.

I'm strongly reconsidering going back to DC, since the MES-DEA might be hard to *properly* fit and support in the bug, and the other options (HEPV AC50 / Azure Dyn AC24LS) seem underpowered, and the Azure AC55 seems too heavy and spins at too low an RPM. I really need to contact Electro Automotive and get their thoughts - they literally live down the road from me. I'm also still waiting to hear back from EVE in Italy about a system that they could provide. 

How well did your Volvo Soliton1/WarP9 do up the Skyway Bridge (and for how long)? I need to re-review the performance details on the WarP motors -- particularly at their higher voltage ratings. All the charts for the WarP 9 are at 96 volts, and I don't know how to convert the performance to a higher voltage rating (is it linear?) 

thanks,
corbin


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

I got an email from UQM about single system pricing. They will sell them...and they look nice, but they are expensive.


HiTor: $20,690
PowerPhase 75: $20,690
PowerPhase 125: $22,850
PowerPhase 145: $24,850
PowerPhase 150: $34,700

Too expensive for my project.

corbin


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## 7circle (May 29, 2010)

corbin said:


> Howdy! I'm trying to decide on what AC motor to use. I posted in the motors section, but I'm soliciting for more responses here
> 
> Has anyone here used MES-DEA? If not, what AC motor do you recommend? Below is some info from my other post.
> 
> ...



Did you get any extra info on the Electro Vehicles Europe (EVE) Motors ?


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

7circle said:


> Did you get any extra info on the Electro Vehicles Europe (EVE) Motors ?


Yes -- the motors seem quite good. They use the MES-DEA controller with them, and pre-pair the controller with the motor. They have more available than what is on their website, and I think they manufacture them on demand (but I'm not 100% sure of that). 

The unknowns: customs costs, and how to import and ship them to the US and how much that would cost. The overall motor/controller is more expensive than DC, so I opted to use DC. Plus, there is more support for DC systems. For my next conversion, I may opt for AC.

corbin


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