# [EVDL] I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?

Thanks,

Michael

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Talk to Wayne

http://ev-blue.com/

Knowing him, he probably already has the template for one.





> Michael Kadie wrote:
> > I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?
> >
> > Thanks,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The guys at Revolt are a sharp bunch and I believe they are designing 
one as we type, maybe done already.

http://www.revoltcustomelectric.com/

Gary Krysztopik
www.ZWheelz.com
www.aceaa.org
San Antonio, TX





> Michael Kadie wrote:
> > I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?
> >
> > Thanks,
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Michael Kadie wrote:
> 
> > I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Martin


> Klingensmith<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Does anyone make their own pattern and have it waterjet or CNCed from
> > someone like at http://rfqwork.com/ ? I've gotten some good quotes
> > from people there. Same disclaimer applies.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'll second ElectroAuto, with the same positives and negatives as below.

Brian




> Doug Weathers<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Michael Kadie wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you find a retired machinist with a lathe and mill in his garage, 
I'm sure $30/hour will sound good to him.

To me the hardest part is getting accurate dimensions off the tranny. 
I found someone who had the transmission measured with a CNC. I could 
not get down to accuracy in the 1/1000's with calipers and such.

It would be nice to have a centralized library of designs, however, 
most people don't want to share their designs without getting paid.



> Martin Klingensmith wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Mark Farver<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is the company that will make the adapter for my Mustang. They have
been making adapters to tie together odd combinations of powerplants and
transmissions for 41 years. Their work is said to be first class and the
prices appear reasonable. More at http://www.kennedyeng.com/ . Contact
them with specifics. they know engines and transmissions, electric motors
are kinda' new to them.

I have no affiliation with this company, but I've been a fan from the 60s
when they were putting v8s in VWs.

Stephen Chapman




> Michael Kadie wrote:
> >
> > I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Kennedy no longer makes adaptors for electric motors. They did for a 
short time but no longer do that because of the complexity and lack of 
business for Electric Motor Adaptor Plates.


Pete 







> enganear wrote:
> 
> >
> > This is the company that will make the adapter for my Mustang. They
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Complexity? My EV adaptor plate was quite a bit simpler than what I'm
looking for for my other project -- mercedes diesel engine to GM
transmission to landrover transfer case. Many ICE swaps get pretty
complicated too.



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Kennedy no longer makes adaptors for electric motors. They did for a
> > short time but no longer do that because of the complexity and lack of
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I found Craig at http://ev-solutions.net http://ev-solutions.net to be very
helpful. If it's not an adapter he currently has he may be willing to work
with you to develop it.

John




> Michael Kadie wrote:
> >
> > I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> If you find a retired machinist with a lathe and mill in his garage,
> I'm sure $30/hour will sound good to him.
>
> To me the hardest part is getting accurate dimensions off the tranny. 
> I found someone who had the transmission measured with a CNC. I could
> not get down to accuracy in the 1/1000's with calipers and such.
>
> It would be nice to have a centralized library of designs, however,
> most people don't want to share their designs without getting paid.
>
>


> Martin Klingensmith wrote:
> Yeah, I agree. A centralized library of our list members adapters should
> be a minimum. Well here is at least the layout on mine.
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31_non-turbo-pattern.jpg
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It was what they told me when I inquired about having an adaptor built 
for my kostov. They stopped years ago but still do engine adaptor 
plates. The complexity comes from the very precise measurements 
required for a proper adaptor. That is what was told to my from the 
head guys at Kennedy. I was very disappointed that they stopped and 
will not do another. I asked because they already did one for a Kostov.

Pete 




> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> 
> > Complexity? My EV adaptor plate was quite a bit simpler than what I'm
> > looking for for my other project -- mercedes diesel engine to GM
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When I spoke with Kennedy a few months ago, I was just looking for a 1"
adapter plate with an accurate pilot hole and bolt pattern that I would
specify. I planned to have another small plate made locally to fit my 11"
GE motor. The adapter plate is the hard part. Most any shop can do the
coupler, thats just welding and/or lathe work.

They told me the adapter plate would be no problem. They have the engine
interface data for their many adapters.

Stephen Chapman



gottdi wrote:
> 
> It was what they told me when I inquired about having an adaptor built 
> for my kostov. They stopped years ago but still do engine adaptor 
> plates. The complexity comes from the very precise measurements 
> required for a proper adaptor. That is what was told to my from the 
> head guys at Kennedy. I was very disappointed that they stopped and 
> will not do another. I asked because they already did one for a Kostov.
> 
> Pete 
> 
> 
>


> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> >
> >> Complexity? My EV adaptor plate was quite a bit simpler than what I'm
> >> looking for for my other project -- mercedes diesel engine to GM
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> It was what they told me when I inquired about having an adaptor built
> for my kostov. They stopped years ago but still do engine adaptor
> plates. The complexity comes from the very precise measurements
> required for a proper adaptor. That is what was told to my from the
> head guys at Kennedy. I was very disappointed that they stopped and
> will not do another. I asked because they already did one for a Kostov.
>
> Pete  
I find this comical.
first, show me a car manufacturer that provides a drawing of the engine
mounting
Second, show me an electric motor company that doesn't!

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It is odd that you make a comment like that from what I wrote. I never 
expected them to expect a drawing of the engine to the transmission. 
They get their measurements directly from the transmissions and 
engines. Like everyone else. They just decided that they did not want 
to continue mostly because of the very limited business it would 
generate. Maybe now it would generate more but I doubt it. I inquired 
about 8 months or so ago because of an Electric 550 Spyder that had 
been built using the Kostov 11" motor and it was Kennedy that did the 
plate. They had done a bunch quite awhile ago but decided that the 
business was not good enough to continue.

Anyway they won't do them anymore from what I was told when I was 
inquiring about the build and that I wanted to do the same.

Pete 






> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> >> It was what they told me when I inquired about having an adaptor
> >> built
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Maybe the trick is to ask them to make 3 or 4. Get together a group or 
sell the extras on ebay.

I was thinking of making adapters as a side business before I changed
careers and lost access to a machine shop.
I still considered it and got quotes for shops to do the work for me.
The concept was
1) a motor bell that varied in depth only. CNC lathe out of Aluminum
in 2 setups, 1 mill setup post.
2) a water jet cut aluminum plate that matches the tranny profile.
It is bored to accept the 12" motor bell and has all the mounting holes.
3) a taperlock that presents a small block chevy crank
4) a button flywheel and racing clutch.

The idea was that I would have most parts in stock and just have to
waterjet and drill the plate and ship with the correct pilot bushing and
clutch discs. Hopefully the varying bell depth would be mostly standard
groups, varying the plate thickness could be a fine tuning and the
combination of the two could help.
What the idea needs is a lot of information. If I was ever to start
doing this, I was just gonna go to the wrecking yard and see if they
will let me buy and return motor tranny sets.

At one time I thought we could agree as a group on an open hardware
standard for adaptors, Then various people can specialize and sell one
part. That way no-one overcharges, cause the design is available. But
getting 3 people to agree is interesting, not sure I want to try 3000.


> It is odd that you make a comment like that from what I wrote. I never
> expected them to expect a drawing of the engine to the transmission.
> They get their measurements directly from the transmissions and
> engines. Like everyone else. They just decided that they did not want
> to continue mostly because of the very limited business it would
> generate. Maybe now it would generate more but I doubt it. I inquired
> about 8 months or so ago because of an Electric 550 Spyder that had
> been built using the Kostov 11" motor and it was Kennedy that did the
> plate. They had done a bunch quite awhile ago but decided that the
> business was not good enough to continue.
>
> Anyway they won't do them anymore from what I was told when I was
> inquiring about the build and that I wanted to do the same.
>
> Pete 
>
>
>
>
>


> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> >> It was what they told me when I inquired about having an adaptor built
> >> for my kostov. They stopped years ago but still do engine adaptor
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> I will offer the benefit of 20 years in the adaptor business to this
> discussion.
>
> First, making the pattern (properly, not half-assed) is the hard
> part. Critical dimensions need to be to three decimal places. If the
> transmission has a "flopsy" mainshaft, it needs to be centered and
> secured to get your measurements. When we do a new pattern, we have
> an experienced engineer and CADD guy spend a couple days making the
> measurements and drawings. Over the years, we have created a
> collection of fixtures and special tools to make this easier.

AMEN, I agree. Thats why I measured the motor, If it is available it is
very precise. I spent more time on this than on the machining.
>
> Second, CNC is not the great solution. CNC shops want to do MINIMUM
> runs of 10 - 30 identical pcs. to give you a price break. I sell
> adaptors all over the country, and the only ones I get enough
> repetition on for that kind of volume is VW Bugs, Rabbits, and Porsche
> 914s. So don't count on a group buy getting you a deal.
Unfortunantly CNC is the most practical solution, you just need to
standardize as much as you can and find a shop that is willing.
I was lucky, I found a shop that was. Now I was gonna pay more for the
lower qty but, I expect that.

>
> Just "take your transmission to the machine shop and let them CMM it"
> is not a cheap deal, either. I tried dealing with a CNC shop that
> actively WANTED my repeat business. I took them a trans to CMM and
> make the plate from. Unless I got into 10 or more quantities, they
> wanted $600 JUST for the transmission plate. Rings in less than 30
> pc. identical quantities were $244 each. So that's already more than
> I sell a whole adaptor for, and we haven't even talked about the
> taperlock hub yet.
>
> This is not just this one shop. I have pursued many CNC shops.
>
> I have also tried to standardize the adaptor pieces as much as
> possible without sacrificing proper custom fit. You can't standardize
> plates, due to wildly varying hole patterns, dowel positions, CV joint
> interferences, etc. The hubs can be standardized somewhat in terms of
> blanks, but finished parts will still be individual. The only part
> that can really be standardized and done in quantity is the spacer ring.

While not tested, I think I had a way to deal with this. It is an idea,
but I will defer to your experience. For now, I'll just throw it out
there. This idea is based on the use of the motor bell(spacer?) that has
a 12" registered diameter as a consistent interface (sorry I B a
software engineer). 
1) A fixture is made which accepts a "plate". This fixture stays at
the cnc shop, it has slot keys underneath and some 1/2 through holes. So
you throw it up on the machine and bolt it down. There is a 1" bored
hole in the middle or a 1x1x1 round they use an edge finder or
concentric dial indicator on; most cnc machines have a program for the
edge finder method. Total setup time is less than or about 10 minutes.
To be honest, CNC's have a good x/y ratio, a typical mill doesn't. You
can't get to all the tranny bolt holes in a typical adapter plate in one
setup on a bridgeport, you have to move the head. A CNC with a tool
changer seems the only way to make a buisness out of this feasable. You
can try to get a days worth together, But I agree you probably have to
own it yourself :-(

2) now you supply the plates needed for the adapters. Many different
models, but all the blanks have been water-jet cut previously and have a
rough 12 diameter hole in them and a flat edge. Their are many ways to
locate the plate and it can be +/- .005, the cnc is gonna machine the
rest. A couple of register holes outside the pattern area that drop over
some pins. maybe this is 4 slots at 90 degrees? this locates x,y, and C
(rotation) even with the slop of waterjet. Waterjet is +/- .005 on size
but .001 on repeatability, It suffers at the start and end points and
thicker stock, but is fine for creating the outer profile and roughing
out the main 12" hole.

3) load the program and let her go. They kiss the 12" register diameter
and then put in the 2 locating dowel reemed holes and then walk off the
tapped mounting and/or clear holes. Different program for each plate is
not an issue if they can share the fixture.

4) The motor bells are all the same except 1 dimension, the depth. It is
a parameter and they can handle that. Maybe there will be groups and not
that many numbers, I'd need to do a bunch to find out. Changing the
plate thickness is also an option so the combination of the two might
yield an optimization.

5) I think using a clutch that is independent of the OEM solves a few
problems nicely. I used a tilton but I went nuts and went 3 plate and
that stack was taller so it involved some unnecessary modification.
Stick to the 7.25 double plate and standardize the motor side. Small
BlockChevy (1 piece oil seal) allows you to use the racing clutches
which can be found on ebay cheap. Now you just order the disks with the
appropriate spline and select the proper pilot bushing size. The point
is that a tilton or quartermaster or other racing clutch all have same
bolt patter to the flywheel, and you can get flywheels that are very
small and light since you don't need the starter teeth. ("Button Flywheel")

>
>
> And from someone who has been working on cars professionally for 40+
> years, I can tell you it is not realistic to expect all conversions to
> switch to some common transmission or flywheel and clutch. There is
> no one size fits all.
Transmission. no, but I think because of the racing clutch
standardization that is already out there, and the common motor side in
our case, a common flywheel and clutch is possible for a large
percentage of adapters. Maybe a small group of 3 or 4 models. The
wrench in the works is the clutch release arm. On the nissan, I was able
to buy the clutch thorw out bearing for a 2004 350z and put it on the
1987 300zx and get the radiused contact throwout bearing the tiltion
needed. Tilton and quaretermaster solve this problem by offering a
hydraulic throwout bearing kit, but that is $$$. I like to keep it
simple and use the stock setup if possible. Other problems are when the
bell housing is seperate from tranny, in some cases the throwout setup
is weird.

Most all of this is based on RWD, The FWD may get more interesting. 

Why did I stop persuing this idea? because I think I'd rather have a
siamese 9 or AC. Adaption is: Motor mount and driveshaft, ye-ha!
How can we make this cheaper? group buy from Jim Husted? Then he can get
deals on shafts, etc.


>
> This topic comes up as regularly as mushrooms after rain, and there's
> a reason no one has "solved" the cheap standard adaptor problem - it
> ain't that easy.
Not easy, Never cheap, but maybe we can do better.

My experiance is more the shade tree mechanic and racer, but I worked 23
years in a machine shop and did a lot of side jobs for racers and of
course, my adapter. http://www.evalbum.com/747




>
> Mike Brown
> Electro Automotive, POB 1113, Felton, CA 95018-1113 Phone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com email [email protected]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
>

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > > I will offer the benefit of 20 years in the adaptor business to this
> > > discussion.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi All, just came across this as i'm no longer able to keep up-to-date 
with the list.. Has anyone attempted to combine and engine adaptor such 
as the Kennedy one with a motor adaptor such as Roland mentioned. 
Kennedy make Porsche adaptors for Chev V6/V8 and Toyota 22R. EVParts 
sell motor adaptors for both the Chev and Toyota. The extra thickness of 
both adaptors will likely present some issues but this approach may be a 
cheaper option than freighting transmissions around the country for 
measurement and having one off adaptors made. This could potentially 
work with any make where engine adaptors are available. Just a thought.

Regards,

Justin.





> enganear wrote:
> > This is the company that will make the adapter for my Mustang. They have
> > been making adapters to tie together odd combinations of powerplants and
> > transmissions for 41 years. Their work is said to be first class and the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Justin,

This engine adapter should work. Just tell Kennedy you need the transmission 
input shaft to fit a V6/V8 Chev engine. This may be either a new input shaft 
or a extension. This new shaft makes up the distance for the increase 
length and fits the Chev clutches and pilot bearing.

We use a similar type of adapter on my nephew Porsche to hook up a V8 to. A 
longer transmission input shaft came with this kit to make up the distance. 
It was very easy to replace this shaft. All we had to do was to is remove a 
snap ring and slid out the old shaft and install the new one on the type of 
transaxle that was use at the time.

I would check with Kennedy if they still have a replacement input shaft or 
extensions. I think at the time, you could use the Porsche clutch plate 
that fit the extension that works with the Chev flywheel and pressure plate.

In my case, I had a GE motor that had the same pattern for any GM V8 that 
fit any GM V6 that fit a adapter plate for a C-10 92 pickup using a flywheel 
for a V8 and a V6 clutch with a V8 long throw out bearing which was control 
by a hydraulic fork lever from a F-104 fighter jet, that was control by a 
marine hydraulic cable unit that is design to move the outboard engines.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Southam" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I need an adapter kit for a Porsche boxster, any ideas?


> Hi All, just came across this as i'm no longer able to keep up-to-date
> with the list.. Has anyone attempted to combine and engine adaptor such
> as the Kennedy one with a motor adaptor such as Roland mentioned.
> Kennedy make Porsche adaptors for Chev V6/V8 and Toyota 22R. EVParts
> sell motor adaptors for both the Chev and Toyota. The extra thickness of
> both adaptors will likely present some issues but this approach may be a
> cheaper option than freighting transmissions around the country for
> measurement and having one off adaptors made. This could potentially
> work with any make where engine adaptors are available. Just a thought.
>
> Regards,
>
> Justin.
>
>
>


> > enganear wrote:
> > > This is the company that will make the adapter for my Mustang. They
> > > have
> > > been making adapters to tie together odd combinations of powerplants and
> ...


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