# Soliton controller for brushed motors only?



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I agree the Soliton1 is the way to go, but to narrow it down a bit further it's for series wound DC motors only. I'm not sure if you will find that kind of power in a BLDC motor/controller if that's what you are looking for. If not the 500A Soliton should be out soon from what I've read.

Good luck with your design, what are you converting?


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

I was thinking of the 40kw BLDC system from currentevtech.com

3950$ for 20kw nominal and 40kw peak

for a 90 x 60AH cells at 288v nominal

but the soliton seems to be very very good but I am in the RC industry and the brushes is just out of date. Did I mention? I hate the brushes

lol


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I looked hard at a similar system from currentevtech, but decided that the 40kw / 80kw rating just wasn't enough for the goals of my project.
The 80kw version is $5850 and a Soliton1 + Warp 11 HV = ~$6500 so for a bit more money I get a much more proven setup capable of over 3x the power. 

I've also talked (emailed/PM'd) the people behind the Soliton1 as well as the guy behind the Warp 11HV, and to me it means a lot for the product when those people are available to contact, not to mention very friendly and helpful. The BLDC from currentevtech could be a great motor, I know Dave was great to talk to and very helpful but even he had problems getting more info about the motor/controller.

However 80kw should be more than enough for a smaller or more reserved conversion. And if that fits the goals then the slight increase in efficiency and benifit of regen make an attractive package. BLDC simply didn't have the power level I was looking for at the price I wanted to pay.

I do hear ya on the brushless systems in RC, I've converted a thunder tiger 4wd buggy from nitro to brushless and it's so much more fun (quiet/clean) to race and bash. I also have a brushless helicopter and I would never go to a brushed system there. But EV's are different and I feel comfortable with a brushed system that will require a lot less time and money than the ICE it's replacing, even if it's not quite as good as BLDC in that respect.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

I hear ya! I just looked at both setup closely and the Brushed motors seems to be very very vulnerable to rain and snow
which I have here 8 months a year

while the brushless systems (Controller and motor) are rated IP54

here's the link
http://www.barcoding.com/informatio...3881d87e2868&gclid=CL-m44r5_6QCFYNk7Aod4xfmig

Rated 5 for dusts& ingress = 
Protected against dust, limited ingress (no harmful deposit)
rated 4 for water exposure = 
Protection against water sprayed from all directions – limited ingress permitted


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

It looks like you are pretty set with the BLDC, (for good reasons) if you do take the plunge on the combo from currentevtech I'm sure a lot of people here would be very interested in your results.

I was scared away from components with unknown support by Jack R. of EVTV in relation to his high $$ controller that just doesn't work anymore. No support, no parts, not a lot of options. It may not be as "high tech" but I know I can get a series DC motor serviced locally, and from what I've seen sofar the soliton crew stand behind their product 100%.

Good luck, can't wait to see you start a build thread.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

rwaudio +1

The Warp11HV has been proven to provide 378kw (500hp) @ 4500rpm with 270V & 1400A, Which is what a Soliton1 can deliver in Race Mode.

Warp11HV = 3500$
Soliton 1 = 3000$
Total = 6500$

There is no BLDC setup at that power level for that price on the single purchase consumer market at this time...

With the money you saved you could always pay someone to replace your brushes for you... 

I am very curious about the BLDC setups offered by Dave, please create a build thread when you start!


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

I am not 100% set with the build. I just take the poors and cons and I know the BLDC is not as powerful. I am not looking for power, but reliability. Maintenance free with a unmatch durability.

I know soliton1 has all that. I doupt any brushed motors can handle the winters with the insane amounts of sodium here. Or just survive for 5 seasons unless it is really really well isolated and not mentioning the maintenance of the brushes...


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> rwaudio +1
> 
> The Warp11HV has been proven to provide 378kw (500hp) @ 4500rpm with 270V & 1400A, Which is what a Soliton1 can deliver in Race Mode.
> 
> ...


 
My logic exactly.... and the reason my Warp 11 HV was just delivered!! woohoo she pretty lol. 
Sorry back on topic, I plan to install a belly pan on the car with forced air cooling from the top. I don't think rain/snow will be a big issue for my car, but they use gravel here and very seldom use salt. So are cars don't rust as much but our windshields are always chipped/cracked


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> Warp11HV = 3500$
> Soliton 1 = 3000$
> Total = 6500$


Well

BLDC 80KW motor and controller = 5,850$

BLDC 40KW motor and controller = 3,950$

still cheaper than the brush setup? isnt it?
the only major savings I see its the BMS

45 down from 90


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Well you could step down the brushed setup to a more comparable power level. 

Warp 9 / Soliton 1 = $4700 (~140kw? 100kw has been deemed safer)
Impulse 9 / Soliton 0.5? = $in the ballpark of $3500 (~70kw?)

At the moment DC will get you more power for less money, but that doesn't mean it's "better" it's just the reality of EV conversions right now.

I am going DC because ~270kw was a more attractive option than 80kw in my Porsche for similar money. In the future it should start to go the other way, and the different forms of AC should start to prevail, but that day isn't here and probably won't be for quite some time.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> The Warp11HV has been proven to provide 378kw (500hp) @ 4500rpm with 270V & 1400A, Which is what a Soliton1 can deliver in Race Mode.


Race mode is cancelled. It will never happen.

It's not worth it + that we'll develop a pure racing controller eventually so we won't waste our time on pushing the limits in the Soliton 1. Besides, even if we'd done it, it would've be a racing option only and nothing for commuting vehicles.


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## EV-propulsion.com (Jun 1, 2009)

Back to the topic, the controller for a BLDC motor is more like a controller for an AC induction motor than a series wound dc motor.
Here is some explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_dc_motor
The soliton can only be used with a series wound dc motor, and _possibly_ a permanent magnet dc brushed motor- but Jeff will have to answer that- I am sure it wasn't tested on a PM motor as they are _really _hard to find if not impossible in large enough size.
Mike
www.EV-propulsion.com


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Thanks for the update Qer, ok so, 270kw, 362hp, (270V @ 1000A) for 6500$...

What's the race controllers specs, 400V 3000A??? 

The under belly pan as rwaudio mentioned will help keep snow and salt from hitting the motor, these motors are built pretty tough also...

Also, it is possible to build up a kostov-9" to tolerate higher currents and voltage, so it could probably handle 150kw-200kw (guesstimate)...that build up would not cost more than 5000$ W/ Soliton1...


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> What's the race controllers specs, 400V 3000A???


My bet is 600V 3000A


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

you guys make me laugh... why is everybody looking for 300+ hp cars/trucks?

I know soliton1 combined with some motor will give me 200-300 hp but I am looking for durability & maintenance free. I am looking, in the long run, for a car that will make me save.

for instance, my mistubishi lancer broke down today
I went to be garange for a quote

1200$ of repairs... I gave up on this car as it is my 1st... I was 17!
but the next one will be my little baby

I have a budget of 400$ a month for a vehicule. ICE of not.

$250 of gasoline (500km week)
$100 payments
$50 maintenance

after 150,000 - 200,000km I would like it to cost me only a new battery $5,000-$10,000 for new battery and keep going
keeping the same controller and same motor and wiring... Is that possible at all?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Well the point isn't really that YOU need 200-300hp, it was really that for almost the same price you can get 200-300hp, but to have a safe and long lasting EV that you will want to drive for the next 1/2million km, you may want more than 26hp cont. 52hp peak (my opinion not yours). Unless the Lancer weights less than I think (guessing 2600-3000lbs) I would be looking at around 100-130hp peak for a car of that size for a safe, reliable and enjoyable car. For the long term realiability you probably don't want to be pushing your motor to the limit all the time. Just like your battery pack I would be overbuilding slightly just because your goal is long term reliability. Although I'm designing for 300hp, I'm also hoping for sub 275wh/mi when I drive it nicely, everyone is different but my ideal car for the next 1/2million km is something comfortable with the features that I want with enough power to merge on the freeway and cruise at a respectable speed (120km/h).. I also like a torquey engine over a high hp engine, I think the electric should give me exactly that. 

I think you are on the right track for long term reliability, but the car still needs maintenance, brakes, tires, wipers, etc. As far as saving, if you are in it for the long term you should come out ahead, but it's not a short term paypack for the type of conversion you are looking at.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Pirape said:


> I hear ya! I just looked at both setup closely and the Brushed motors seems to be very very vulnerable to rain and snow
> which I have here 8 months a year


Just use a S.S. coverband on the intake with a fan forcing air in. See pic below. Comon now... it isn't that bad in Blainville, 8 months?? lol


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Better yet, go get a used fork lift motor like I did. Less than $200 for bearings and brushes and paint....


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Just use a S.S. coverband on the intake with a fan forcing air in. See pic below. Comon now... it isn't that bad in Blainville, 8 months?? lol


When I said 8 months its 8 months of crap in the roads yesturday we got 5 inches of snow...


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Better yet, go get a used fork lift motor like I did. Less than $200 for bearings and brushes and paint....


very interesting! 200$ for a forklift motor?

can you tell me how I can shop for one that will be good for my needs
according to the previous thread 100-130hp peak would be perfect

Seriously I really thought a 40kw motor would do the job very well since the torque was instant... I wanted a smaller motor for better efficency and less power used...

thank you for all your help I think I will go with a forklift motor + soliton1


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Pirape said:


> very interesting! 200$ for a forklift motor?
> 
> can you tell me how I can shop for one that will be good for my needs
> according to the previous thread 100-130hp peak would be perfect
> ...


Please make sure and start a build thread!

As far as your battery pack is concerned, if you do not want to be concerned with power or performance and are more focused on cost and cycle life....Thundersky lithiums are the way to go....

You need a usable range of about 60miles per day (500km/5 = 100km=60m)...since you shouldnt ever drive your pack down to zero, except in an emergency, 80% should be your daily limit, and that requires a total 75 mile range . @300wh/mile that equals 22.5kwh pack...

A 144V pack of Thundersky Lithium 160AH cells = 23kwh would be the choice... 45 cells are required @ 200$ eachUSD = 9000$USD and total pack weight = 556lbs (hopefully you will remove enough weight from the vehicle to keep this added weight neutral)

3C (3 x 160AH) from the batteries would give you peak continuous power of 480A @ 144V = 69kw or 93hp...this should be enough for a simple commuter conversion...while keeping cycle life healthy.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Pirape said:


> ... I wanted a smaller motor for better efficency and less power used...


 
At high torque a bigger motor will have more efficiency because it have less resitance inside bigger copper bar and use less Amps for the same torque!!

Watch some graph of warp 9 vs warp 11 motor.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

"Less amps for the same torque" has nothing to do with efficiency. All that means is less rpm for the same voltage. This is just a trade-off and neutral by itself. Lets look at the published efficiency graphs for the WarP 9 and WarP 11 motors...

WarP 9









WarP 11









The 9 inch appears to be 88% efficient at 300 amps while the 11 inch appears to be only 87% efficient. The graphs for the 9 don't go past 350 amps but you can clearly see how pushing the 11 up into higher amp ranges causes a drop in efficiency. I expect the drop off will be even a little worse for the 9 and worse still for the 7. Unless you are racing this is not where you want to maximize efficiency anyway. For a street EV you want to focus on efficiency at slightly over the motor currents you expect at cruising speeds. Remember that motor currents are greater than battery currents at less than full throttle, so I would look at efficiency at 150 to 300 motor amps, the high end for low voltage EVs and the low end for EVs using high voltage motors and battery packs.


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

I think that torque is actually very important for efficiency.
You can think of power as acceleration while torque is range.
Consider the case of W9 vs W11. Their only difference is not the ammount of amps they handle as both seem to be rated for 225A but torque and respectively rpm whereby W11 has 4000rpm at 144V vs 6000 for W9.
If you consider normal city driving, you rarely need top speed and the associated with it top motor rpm. To accelerate to a given speed what is important is that motor develops a given torque.
W11 will achieve that torque with less amps vs W9 hence overall its battery will last longer. What is more, as W11's rpm are less, on average it will work at higher voltages meaning again less amps and less stress on the other components. Hence added motor weight that produces torque in fact pays for itself by prolonging range.
The 88% efficiency at 300A is highly unlikely though - it is more like 82-84% but of course this is a biased opinion


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Plamenator said:


> I think that torque is actually very important for efficiency.


No, torque is just one part of power in a motor. 

HP = torque * rpm / 5252 

Look at the curves I posted, the 11 makes a lot more torque per amp but at a lower rpm. The efficiency of the 2 motors is similar. The gears in your transmission also turn less torque at a higher rpm into more torque at a lower rpm.


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## Plamenator (Mar 6, 2009)

OK, maybe using the word efficiency was a poor choice.
Indeed electrical efficiency of the motor does not depend on torque (at least not directly).
What I wanted to say is that a motor with higher torque (but same power) uses the battery more efficiently and range with W11 will be more than with W9.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Pirape said:


> I am not 100% set with the build. I just take the poors and cons and I know the BLDC is not as powerful. I am not looking for power, but reliability. Maintenance free with a unmatch durability.
> 
> I know soliton1 has all that. I doupt any brushed motors can handle the winters with the insane amounts of sodium here. Or just survive for 5 seasons unless it is really really well isolated and not mentioning the maintenance of the brushes...


I think you might be overestimating the amount (and difficulty) of brush maintenance here. If the average power delivered by the motor is around its 1 hour rating then it is likely the brushes on a typical forklift/EV-size series DC motor will outlast the donor car... maybe even a couple donor cars.

As for surviving road-salting (though what do I know about that, being in sunny Florida?!), if you use a blower band on the motor you not only will keep it cooler, especially in stop-and-go traffic, but also prevent incidental water spray, dirt, rocks and, yes, salt from getting into it.

BLDC is pretty much a permanent magnet synchronous motor, or PMSM (I really dislike the term "BLDC" precisely because it is so misleading). So you need an inverter to drive a BLDC motor, just like with an AC induction motor, and since inverters are much more complex than brushed DC controllers they must be less reliable, even if build and component quality are otherwise the same! 

A BLDC motor does have very high efficiency, but it requires hundreds of dollars worth of rare earth magnets to achieve. This has the unwelcome bonus of making the motor much more sensitive to damage from heat and/or pumping too much current through the stator. Oh yes, overloading a BLDC motor can demagnetize the magnets, typically manifested as a progressive loss of torque at a given stator current.

The advantage a BLDC motor has over an ACIM is the magnets in the rotors make it much easier to determine the rotor's position in space - and therefore calculate the current vector for the stator - without resorting to an encoder. This may be advantageous in RC applications, but it is of marginal utility in an EV. Personally, I'd rather go with ACIM.

I know nothing about the system that Dave Kois has, but it sure looks like the generic Chinese forklift/NEV stuff that has been floating around the internet for years now. Please note that the power rating quoted for these things is ALWAYS a short-term PEAK - the continuous rating is often less than half, and sometimes as little as 1/4, the peak power rating so loudly trumpeted in the specs. Even keeping the controller cool won't help since the real Achilles heel is the ripple current rating of the input capacitors (it's what limits the Zilla Z1K, for example, to 300A continuous, despite being a water-cooled controller).

I personally think that BLDC is a dead-end technology for EVs - much more so than brushed DC. ACIM will be the preferred technology in the future, it's just that the future ain't quite here (getting closer, though)...


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Bowser330 said:


> Please make sure and start a build thread!
> 
> As far as your battery pack is concerned, if you do not want to be concerned with power or performance and are more focused on cost and cycle life....Thundersky lithiums are the way to go....
> 
> ...


I did start a build thread but no one helps... Maybe Im too boring lol


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Plamenator said:


> What I wanted to say is that a motor with higher torque (but same power) uses the battery more efficiently and range with W11 will be more than with W9.


The motor "with higher torque (but same power)" is turning a lower rpm. 

Look at the graphs. The 11 is most efficient at about 260 amps, the 9 at about 240 amps. At 200 motor amps the 9 is more efficient than the 11 according to the numbers posted by the manufacturer. 

Racing does step the motor size up because efficiency at 1000 and even 2000 amps becomes important. For the street bigger is not necessarily better. To small and efficiency suffers and the motor is likely to overheat. To large and efficiency in the most used power levels suffers a few percent most of the time while the efficiency gains at higher loads are only seen a small percentage of operating time.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Pirape said:


> very interesting! 200$ for a forklift motor?
> 
> can you tell me how I can shop for one that will be good for my needs
> according to the previous thread 100-130hp peak would be perfect


 I found my 12" motor from a milk float for £100 on Ebay and my 11" motor, complete with the axle and wheels from a Still R30/60 forklift for £150 as a direct link from another member here. My 9" motor and 7" motor were free from other members of the forum helping me out.

Finding motors is a matter of persistence and luck, like buses you will have nothing for months and then several come along at once. 
You should try to find somewhere local that breaks forklifts or plant machinery. Also get to know your local scrap metal yard as sometimes complete forklifts get weighed in for scrap.
You can also look at plant sales to find old electric forklifts for sale. You can arrange a friendly three way trans action with your scrap yard so that you buy it, they collect it, you get the motor and they then give you the scrap value of the rest of the truck.

Also if there are EV guys in your area they may already have contacts and look outs for suitable motors.

Sometimes just asking friends, at work, etc if anyone knows of a local factory with an old forklift or other electric factory truck that is wasting away in a corner might get you some leads. Sometimes they just want it out the way for less then the cost to them of transporting it away.




Pirape said:


> thank you for all your help I think I will go with a forklift motor + soliton1


If only I could afford the Soliton1...
My budget is tight so I am going for the Paul and Sabrina Open Revolt kit.




Pirape said:


> I did start a build thread but no one helps... Maybe Im too boring lol


Bring it back up with some photos and questions as you go along. Sometimes there is just nothing to say back yet. Look at the way my threads started, chat and photos with no direction for a while and then it started to some together.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree, but before posting pictures I need help with my setup

this is my knowledge of the circuit I need help connecting the Charger and the BMS system, I have no clue how


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Ops I made a mistake


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was about to say you made a mistake but you have found it yourself.

It looks about right the way you have it there. Not sure about BMS, I think each cell would have a small BMS board across the pos and neg terminals.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I was about to say you made a mistake but you have found it yourself.
> 
> It looks about right the way you have it there. Not sure about BMS, I think each cell would have a small BMS board across the pos and neg terminals.


yeah but arent the minibms suppose to be linked to a slave board then linked to a masterboard?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The fixed schematic looks correct. I would like to add that a you should include an input fuse to the DC to DC converter. This needs to be something properly rated for the DC voltage and for slightly more amps than the DC to DC peak input amps. I generally use an ABC fuse (ceramic 1/4" by 1-1/4"). If your DC to DC is actually an AC to DC converter that happens to work on DC (like the Iota DLS models) you cannot rely on the built in fuse as it will almost certainly only be rated for high AC voltage.

As for the BMS, I recommend installing individual boards at each cell and then wiring the isolated signal loop back to the master. I don't recommend wiring all the cells to a slave board unless you can place a fuse in each wire near the cell. Just think about what could happen if you short a couple of those wires between different cells and the slave board.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

EVfun said:


> The fixed schematic looks correct. I would like to add that a you should include an input fuse to the DC to DC converter. This needs to be something properly rated for the DC voltage and for slightly more amps than the DC to DC peak input amps. I generally use an ABC fuse (ceramic 1/4" by 1-1/4"). If your DC to DC is actually an AC to DC converter that happens to work on DC (like the Iota DLS models) you cannot rely on the built in fuse as it will almost certainly only be rated for high AC voltage.
> 
> As for the BMS, I recommend installing individual boards at each cell and then wiring the isolated signal loop back to the master. I don't recommend wiring all the cells to a slave board unless you can place a fuse in each wire near the cell. Just think about what could happen if you short a couple of those wires between different cells and the slave board.


very interesting but I am still not clear on how to make the connection
can you post me link of what you are explaning to me or can you draw me a plan and tell me which is which???

mini bms to a master board? but I thought master boards was only 16 slots


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

You need to go here and read about the miniBMS. I recommend the "distributed" version, not the "centralized" version. If the central boards are used you really need a fuse in each wire going from Lithium pack to the central boards, located at the cells.

In the picture showing the "distributed" boards you can see a black wire going from one board to the next. This is the isolated loop that goes back to the "head end board" (shown in the larger picture at the top of the page.) The rest of the connections on the head end board are part of the vehicles 12 volt system. The head end board is built into the centralized boards. 

The info on the link I gave is invaluable for understanding and installing the miniBMS. My system is a hybrid, using the head end board from the miniBMS system and cell modules from EVworks.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

It's probably a good idea to add a small 12 Volt battery on the secondary side of the DC/DC too, otherwise your car will die instantly if the DC/DC shuts down because of overload or overtemp or, of course, if it breaks.

Even a temporary overload that makes the DC/DC go into brown out will make the Soliton shut down to protect itself, which will require a restart (ignition off/on) to clear. Might not be so fun if it happens in rush hour.

A DC/DC that provides ~13.5 Volt and a small MC-battery on a few Ah will save you from this and will provide you with power enough to limp home if you're conservative with headlights etc.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Ok so a DC-DC conerter is unreliable? I mean why would I need a 12v battery? anyways if its recommended I will buy one

also about bms I will go with the distributed

still unsure how to connect those

pos to neg on every battery and a little wire to jump from 1 minibms module to the other one

after they are all connected does that go to a centralised masterboard?

how is the charger going to stop if no wires are connected to the charger? The bms will distribute the current untill the pack reach maximum voltage and the charger shutsoff when it notices full charge?

or am I still lost?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

Pirape said:


> Ok so a DC-DC conerter is unreliable? I mean why would I need a 12v battery? anyways if its recommended I will buy one


It's as usual, you get what you pay for. 

A well built DC/DC will of course be extremely reliable, but even a high quality product might fail and when the DC/DC fails your whole car will go black in an instant. If you're driving when it's dark a total blackout will of course be extremely dangerous since you'll lose your head lights.

A DC/DC will also shut down or current limit the output if you temporarely overload it. For example, if you get a short circuit somewhere the DC/DC might cause a black or brown out until the fuse blows or, if you're unlucky, the DC/DC will limit itself to protect the fuse and you'll manually have to figure out where the short is and pull the fuse. Not so good.

A small battery is a good safe guard for many of these problems. A battery doesn't back off like a DC/DC if there's a short circuit but will provide current enough to blow the fuse. Also; a battery will take care of peak currents so you can choose a DC/DC that covers the need for, for example, 90% of the time but that will need a little help from the battery for the initial current rush when you switch something on, like the high beam.

Some people only use a 12 Volt battery instead of a DC/DC, but that has it's own draw backs like that you need a separate charger for it plus that it means your 12 Volt system will be running at ~11.5 Volt rather than ~13.5 Volt (which is the normal charging current for the 12 Volt battery in a car). This will make your lamps yellowish and weak and also mean that the margins for the Soliton 1 will be very narrow (it starts to warn for low voltage at 11 Volt and shuts down at 10 Volt).

In Europe there's also a legal demand that a broken down car must have a battery big enough to provide power to the hazard flashers for at least 24 hours. I don't know if there's similar rules in US as well but it's worth checking out before you start your conversion.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Nice, in my province and in canada they are lost!
I called the federal government and they have nothing about electric cars

I called the provincial government and they have no clue

I called the SAAQ(Insurance society of quebec) they keep transfering me..

I called my city and they said buy an hybrid instead... lol

Im having e-mail conversations with people in my province and they all told me to convert and to insure it as an ICE car and not to mention my electric conversion


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Pirape said:


> Nice, in my province and in canada they are lost!
> I called the federal government and they have nothing about electric cars
> 
> I called the provincial government and they have no clue
> ...


Isn't life fun!


Be careful about that last option. Over here in the UK if you insure a car and fail to describe anything and everything that might make it different to standard then the insurer will take your money but you won't have any viable cover in the event of a claim and then will be found to be driving without insurance.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Pirape said:


> I mean why would I need a 12v battery? anyways if its recommended I will buy one


Your car already has one, as long as it's still working just use the stock 12v battery. No need to replace it unless it's dead, it's too heavy or you need the room for EV parts. You don't need to really touch ANY of the 12v system, you simply need to find a new way to charge the stock battery (that's what the dc/dc converter will do).


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Isn't life fun!
> 
> 
> Be careful about that last option. Over here in the UK if you insure a car and fail to describe anything and everything that might make it different to standard then the insurer will take your money but you won't have any viable cover in the event of a claim and then will be found to be driving without insurance.


Yeah, well good news! I just spoke to the SAAQ, a guy with tons of EV knowledge! I was impressed. Anyways, this guy told me the province doesn't have a formal way to describe how to make ev conversions. He told me to summit a booklet or plans with a lot of description on how the car will be weight distribution, power used, and up to the wiring capacities and OHMs Im just not sure what Ohms are... He told me I have to summit the project before creating it. Once that is done they will call me and tell me if it is approved or not. If it is not approved they will tell me why and what to do to get it approved. Hope it works


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Good luck for the imatriculation of your vehicule with the SAAQ!!..

I build some EV parts for this guy http://www.voitureselectriques.ca/fr/voitures/voitures.shtml , and this one is incapable to register his vehicules. The SAAQ cause it a lot of problem. He lost lot of money to try to be legal.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

In a way I'm glad Alberta (oil country) seems oblivious to electric cars, everyone I've asked seems to say that as long as the car passes a normal safety you can register it. These items mainly include horn/wipers/lights/brakes/e-brake/tires/steering/ball joints/bearings with little mention of the propulsion system. Since my Porsche is already registered as a gas vehicle I will simply go in and request to have the "fuel" changed from gas to electric. I expect blank stares and people who don't know where the form is to change fuel type, and if there is an option for "electric". I haven't gotten a firm answer from the insurance company about coverage, there's no problem in basic coverage and they were very friendly and willing to help, however I might need an appraisal to have the vehicle covered for its EV value instead of gas "book" value.

However on the other side, there is no tax break, rebate, incentive or anything related to the use of an electric car in this province. When I contacted my local branch of government they basically laughed at me when I suggested the implementation of some sort of electric car incentive if one wasn't already in place. They said maybe we’ll look into it when you can actually buy an electric car **insert sarcastic laugh here** (this was a couple of months ago). But to be clear this Province is only “rich” because of oil, and I’m sure they don’t want to give that up anytime soon, they depend on oil revenue as their cash cow.


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Yabert, yes I called this guy because he now builds electric car as a living. he's the one that told me how hard it is to get the car approved by the SAAQ but when I called the SAAQ I spoke to Marc Barré, Engineer for modified cars, he said it MUST be a 1997 or older! while the guy you helped is still trying to get the newer mazda 3 approved.

He said it wont be hard to get it approved if I summit a detailed doccument of my project with safety features


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## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

rwaudio, I know what you mean by government, federal or provincial. Here, in quebec, we make most of our money because of Hydroquebec making tons of electricity by using green renewable energy. But we do not have anything to help run or build electric cars

I called several times at the government phone likes and all of the reacted like you said. Oh electric car *insert laugh here* umm no we have nothing for that... 

that is why I was suprised to find someone at the SAAQ that had a good knowledge on electric cars!

I wish we had the new governmental subventions, 10,000$ if it is completely electric!


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