# [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think you are fine. What you are failing to take into account is that both the fuse and the circuit breaker act as automatic disconnects. You don't have to do anything, they handle the emergency for you. My circuit breaker has done that for me a couple of times. The truck just goes dead. I get out to see what is wrong and the circuit breaker has tripped, but it tripped because of something else being wrong, preventing me from even having to reach for the key. 

I can't remember what your final decision was on the transmission/adaptor solution you went with, but if you retained the clutch, I would also count that as an emergency disconnect.

damon

> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:41:43 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects
> 
> So far, my EV has the following possible ways to disconnect the pack:
> 1) Contactor on negative lead
> 2) Contactor on positive lead
> 3) Fuse on positive lead
> 4) Breaker mid-pack
> 
> I've realized that the only way I currently have of disconnecting the 
> pack in an emergency is to turn off the key and have the contactors drop 
> out.
> Is this enough?
> It will be hard to make a manual disconnect for the breaker, as it will 
> be in the back of the truck.
> 
> -- 
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[email protected]
> Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

curtis has some nice ed contactors with a big red button on them. Just
like the EStop buttons on large machinery.

I had an idea to mount the main anderson connector to the battery box
then use an additional automotive e-brake lever to pull the free side of
the anderson connector off. 

my only concern is if i pull the wrong lever i'll lock the wheels
instead of popping the connector apart.

i decided on a curtis ed-402 instead



> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > So far, my EV has the following possible ways to disconnect the pack:
> > 1) Contactor on negative lead
> > 2) Contactor on positive lead
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You might also consider an "inertia switch" that would shut down the battery
pack in case of a collision or rollover.

- Peter Flipsen Jr



> pratt2 <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > curtis has some nice ed contactors with a big red button on them. Just
> > like the EStop buttons on large machinery.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello John,

I have all that plus another contactor. Two back near the battery box and 
one main contactor near the controller.

So far in 34 years, just turning off the ignition switch will drop all the 
contactors. I also have another 30 amp rated rocker switch that is in the 
console just behind by transmission shift knob.

My ignition key is in the steering column which I cannot quickly turn off, 
unless I lock turn the steering wheel. I also have another 3 position 
rocker switch on the dash, which in one position, turns on the accelerator 
potentiometer to the Zilla or turns it off or switches in another 
potentiometer, so I can idle the motor so I can work on the accessory drive 
system while the motor is running.

Breaking the potentiometer circuit to the motor controller is better, 
because it reduces the load rather than turning off the contactors under 
load. I kill the power under load once back in 78 which I had to resurface 
and/or weld on new contacts buttons on the contact blocks which can be done 
with Cable Form contactors.

Also in the motor bay, I have one of those big red 12 volt 500 amp flag 
switch, which I can turn off the main 12 volt control voltage incase 
something happens while I am working under the hood.

One time, the return spring came off the accelerator unit and had to quickly 
kill the power with the ignition switch. So now I have the standard coil 
spring that comes with the potentiometer unit plus a double carburetor 
return spring which I can adjust for tension.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects


> So far, my EV has the following possible ways to disconnect the pack:
> 1) Contactor on negative lead
> 2) Contactor on positive lead
> 3) Fuse on positive lead
> 4) Breaker mid-pack
>
> I've realized that the only way I currently have of disconnecting the
> pack in an emergency is to turn off the key and have the contactors drop
> out.
> Is this enough?
> It will be hard to make a manual disconnect for the breaker, as it will
> be in the back of the truck.
>
> -- 
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[email protected]
> Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi John,

Australian rules state that you need to have a mechanical power
disconnect within reach of the driver - electrically operated
contactors are not enough.

(This is often a big red button that pushes a rod or pulls a cable to
operate a switch in the engine bay)

I know that you're not in Aus, it's just another data point for you to consider.

Mark

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

you can use a push pull control cable to control a remote breaker

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/controls_0pushpull.html

another on-line store sells a big red plastic handle that screws on the 
end, I don't have it handy right now.

Gary Krysztopik
www.ZWheelz.com
San Antonio, TX





> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > So far, my EV has the following possible ways to disconnect the pack:
> > 1) Contactor on negative lead
> > 2) Contactor on positive lead
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> damon henry wrote:
> > I think you are fine. What you are failing to take into account is that both the fuse and the circuit breaker act as automatic disconnects. You don't have to do anything, they handle the emergency for you. My circuit breaker has done that for me a couple of times. The truck just goes dead. I get out to see what is wrong and the circuit breaker has tripped, but it tripped because of something else being wrong, preventing me from even having to reach for the key.
> >
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> pratt2 wrote:
> > I had an idea to mount the main anderson connector to the battery box
> > then use an additional automotive e-brake lever to pull the free side of
> > the anderson connector off.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mark Fowler wrote:
> > Australian rules state that you need to have a mechanical power
> > disconnect within reach of the driver - electrically operated
> > contactors are not enough.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > You might also consider an "inertia switch" that would shut down the battery
> > pack in case of a collision or rollover.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ev Parts sells one:

http://www.evparts.com/prod-RL2512.htm

- PF



> John G. Lussmyer <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > > You might also consider an "inertia switch" that would shut down the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

really hard to pull it out of gear under load

what about over reving the motor?

that would cost more to replace than the burnt contactors or ed switch
you tripped out

i still like my idea of a parachute type rip cord to pull the main
anderson connector apart

i do have the flag type switches but they make a big arc under load

the contactors have optional magnetic blowouts to help this and are the
way to go





> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >
> > I retained the clutch, but don't have any way to disengage it yet.
> > (Going to try shifting without using it first.)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

surplus center used to have them under $10 new

i got 2 from there

they were in a lot of 90's fords in the trunk if you like salvage
yards..




> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > SLPinfo.org wrote:
> > > You might also consider an "inertia switch" that would shut down the battery
> > > pack in case of a collision or rollover.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How would you wire it if you had a traditional ignition switch with no
locking steering column?

This has been a fascinating and timely discussion, because I am just now
starting to wire my VW dune buggy conversion. At first, I was going to use
the "Accessory" position of my key ignition switch to . . . well, turn on
the accessories! Makes sense, right? Actually, what that means is that it
would turn on the DC-DC converter. Then, the next position was going to
turn on the main contactor connecting the battery pack and controller.

But in that scenario, I have Roland's situation in which, if something goes
wrong and the motor is at full throttle, the only way to shut down the
system is to turn off the contactors under load, or throw the circuit
breaker, which is right below the driver's seat. It would be good to be
able to open (or close, whichever is "off") the throttle pot and then turn
off the contactors. So, I'm thinking the "Run" position of the ignition
switch should be connected to the throttle pot. The "Accessory" position
should be the contactors. Which means I need yet another switch to turn on
the DC-DC converter and the accessories. Maybe that should be an entirely
separate switch from the ignition. After all, no one is going to steal the
car or cause anything too problematic is they turn that switch on. It would
be like someone turning on the hazards and running down the battery.

I'm interested in the thoughts of those of you that have been down this
road, plus I have one more question. If I did have a run-away motor
situation and I turned the switch counterclockwise to first turn off the
throttle and then turn off the contactors, will there be enough time between
each position of the switch so that the contactors will not be seeing any
current when they shut off? In other words, does the controller take a
second or two to ramp down, once the throttle pot tells it to stop providing
power?

Thanks.

Tom 






> Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> > Hello John,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tom-
I think that a "runaway" controller usually means that it doesn't respond
to throttle pot inputs. In that case, it doesn't matter if you disconnect
the throttle pot - the controller will supply pack voltage to the motor (
and continue running away) until you break the circuit by opening a
contactor ( or manually opening a circuit breaker or other switch).

In the case that the throttle fails full on because of, say, a mechanical
problem like a jammed or broken cable, then your question would apply. But,
you should be able to avoid that with careful design and hookup of your
pot-box - and occasional inspection of the cable, etc.

On the other hand, you have no control over or warning about a controller
than decides to fail full-on.

Phil Marino



> sanfranman12 <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > How would you wire it if you had a traditional ignition switch with no
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Tom,

To start up my EV using a Zilla Control, the following is happening:

Accessory 12 volt power using a 12 volt deep cycle battery is on all the 
time providing 12 volts to the motor controller and to the ignition switch.

1. Turning the ignition switch to the ON position only:

a. Turns on a 12 volt control relay that turns on:

1. Two battery contactors which also provide power to:

a. B+ to The Main Contactor.

b. B- to the Motor Controller.

c. two contactors for four DC-DC converters.

b. When I get a main battery connect signal to the main
main contactor, then:

1. I turn the ignition switch from the ignition position to
the Start position.

a. The precharging of the capacitors in the motor
controller is started and the main contactor comes
on if the accelerator potentiometer is at 0 ohms.

b. As soon as the main contactor comes on, then let the
ignition switch come back to the ignition On
position.

To shut down the motor controller and/or disconnect of the main
battery pack can occurred in the following methods.

1. Turn the Ignition switch to the off position.

2. Turn a secondary switch that is in series with the ignition
circuit that is right behind the transmission shift lever. This
is a handy location to act quickly if you happen to have your
hand on the shift lever.

Planning on installing a new transmission shifter that has a
line lock lever that can shut the ignition power by a flick
with the finger when the hand is on the shift lever.

3. Turn of the potentiometer circuit using a switch just behind the
steering wheel either on the dash or a steering wheel paddle
switch which you can flick with you finger when having both hands
on the steering wheel.

a. This potentiometer switch has a second position where I can
switch in another 5k pot that is adjust for a idle point or
as a backup unit.

4. One main 12 volt power flag switch in the motor bay that shuts
of the 12 volt accessory power.


Sometimes a battery fuse or main breaker will not open, if the motor is not 
under load and start to a maintain overspeed.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "sanfranman12" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects


>
> How would you wire it if you had a traditional ignition switch with no
> locking steering column?
>
> This has been a fascinating and timely discussion, because I am just now
> starting to wire my VW dune buggy conversion. At first, I was going to 
> use
> the "Accessory" position of my key ignition switch to . . . well, turn on
> the accessories! Makes sense, right? Actually, what that means is that 
> it
> would turn on the DC-DC converter. Then, the next position was going to
> turn on the main contactor connecting the battery pack and controller.
>
> But in that scenario, I have Roland's situation in which, if something 
> goes
> wrong and the motor is at full throttle, the only way to shut down the
> system is to turn off the contactors under load, or throw the circuit
> breaker, which is right below the driver's seat. It would be good to be
> able to open (or close, whichever is "off") the throttle pot and then turn
> off the contactors. So, I'm thinking the "Run" position of the ignition
> switch should be connected to the throttle pot. The "Accessory" position
> should be the contactors. Which means I need yet another switch to turn 
> on
> the DC-DC converter and the accessories. Maybe that should be an entirely
> separate switch from the ignition. After all, no one is going to steal 
> the
> car or cause anything too problematic is they turn that switch on. It 
> would
> be like someone turning on the hazards and running down the battery.
>
> I'm interested in the thoughts of those of you that have been down this
> road, plus I have one more question. If I did have a run-away motor
> situation and I turned the switch counterclockwise to first turn off the
> throttle and then turn off the contactors, will there be enough time 
> between
> each position of the switch so that the contactors will not be seeing any
> current when they shut off? In other words, does the controller take a
> second or two to ramp down, once the throttle pot tells it to stop 
> providing
> power?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>


> > Roland Wiench wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello John,
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Sanfranman12 wrote:
> 
> > How would you wire it if you had a traditional ignition
> > switch with no locking steering column?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On our race vehicles, we have found that simply having the ingnition switch
or a kill switch does not do the job. We place either a simple in line knife
switch or a copper plate with spring loaded contacts in the negative motor
leads. The plate or handle is connected to a pull cable. once pulled, there
is no possible circuit. Crude, I know but there is no chance of the contacts
welding closed. We have had this occur more than once, which lead to a
fail-safe method.
I do not trust switches, fuses, or contactors as the final disconnect
method, when my life is in the balance.



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Sanfranman12 wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There's always the "Oh ****" bar:

http://www.kewelectricals.com/fuseunit.htm

Replace the fuse with a copper bus bar. Insert into battery wiring. Pull 
to disconnect.

White Zombie has something similar mounted on the transmission tunnel. It 
was used after a 1/4 mile run when the throttle linkage stuck full on - 
makes a nice bright flash  A pull cable (or rope) to a circuit breaker 
handle or Anderson connector would probably be easier.

-Adrian



> Thos True wrote:
> 
> > On our race vehicles, we have found that simply having the ingnition
> > switch
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, John's bar is more famous than ours, but that is the copper plate that
I was describing. The reality is that this was the original method required
for the drag bikes back in the '90's.
After having contactors weld in the on position, I would never build an
electric without the "Oh ****" bar".-Tom



> Adrian DeLeon <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > There's always the "Oh ****" bar:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Confirming the disconnect has to be on the main power buss to be
reliable. Sure, you could double your chances with 2 contactors in
series, but when safety is crucial, don't count on it.

Safety is crucial on a 1 speed motorcycle with no clutch. Fortunately,
what use to be a clutch cable can now be your emergency disconnect. 
Configure it so it swings a knifeblade (or the fuse) out from between
spring contacts. Not trying to imply this is appropriate for racing.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects
From: Thos True <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, April 15, 2009 8:39 am
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>

Yes, John's bar is more famous than ours, but that is the copper plate
that
I was describing. The reality is that this was the original method
required
for the drag bikes back in the '90's.
After having contactors weld in the on position, I would never build an
electric without the "Oh ****" bar".-Tom

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Adrian DeLeon <[email protected]>
wrote:

> There's always the "Oh ****" bar:
>
> http://www.kewelectricals.com/fuseunit.htm
>
> Replace the fuse with a copper bus bar. Insert into battery wiring. Pull
> to disconnect.
>
> White Zombie has something similar mounted on the transmission tunnel. It
> was used after a 1/4 mile run when the throttle linkage stuck full on -
> makes a nice bright flash  A pull cable (or rope) to a circuit breaker
> handle or Anderson connector would probably be easier.
>
> -Adrian
>
>


> Thos True wrote:
> >
> > > On our race vehicles, we have found that simply having the ingnition
> > > switch
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why the "negative" motor lead? As opposed to the positive or mid pack for
instance.

Thanks for all the info. I keep hearing the voice of experience in some of
these comments. Always good to hear!

Tom






> Thos True wrote:
> >
> > On our race vehicles, we have found that simply having the ingnition
> > switch
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Because you want as few connections on the supply side of the circuit as
possible. Circuit theory states that any break in a circuit will cause it to
fail. Therefore to cause a break in the circuit under catastrophic load
conditions, it matters not where the break occurs, just that one happens.
Hence the choice for the negative lead.
I realize that for some physics purists, there is still an ongoing debate as
to the direction of flow in a DC circuit., but this concept has worked
without fail for over 10 years for me. -Tom



> sanfranman12 <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why the "negative" motor lead? As opposed to the positive or mid pack for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thos - you're right - a break anywhere in the circuit will prevent current
flow ( and, stop a runaway)
So, it makes absolutely no difference whether you put your contactor,( or
fuse, or circuit breaker, or manual safety switch) in the positive or
negative battery lead - or, in either of the motor leads. If it's in either
battery lead, it will have to carry the same current, and break the same
current.

Some contactors are meant to work with the current in one particular
direction, but you can hook them up for that direction of current flow
regardless of which lead they are in.( just turn them so the + contactor
terminal is connected to the + battery terminal)

As far as current flow the accepted convention ( there is no debate about
this) for technicians and engineers is to say that current flows from the
positive terminal of a battery to the negative ( in an external wire
connected to the battery terminals).

So, to an engineer, the current flows in a direction opposite to the flow of
electrons.


Phil Marino
Rochester, NY





> Thos True <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Because you want as few connections on the supply side of the circuit as
> > possible. Circuit theory states that any break in a circuit will cause it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Thos True wrote:
> 
> > Yes, John's bar is more famous than ours, but that is the
> > copper plate that I was describing. The reality is that this
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I do not recall the exact wording of the NEDRA (NHRA) rules, but I do recall
that it states that a mechanical means of disconnect shall be employed.
Father Time (my dad) made the decision to make the disconnecting means as
simple, effective, and cost effective as possible.
The contactors are never energized under load (to do so would fry your
controller), but can weld in the on position after seeing full current. My
280ZX is running on a mere 156v (note my 2 records at NEDRA), and we have
welded our contactors more than once, so voltage is not the factor. I could
see this happening at freeway speeds just as easily.
Just my opinion.-Tom



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Thos True wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tom wrote: The contactors are never energized under load (to do so would
fry your
> controller), but can weld in the on position after seeing full current.

Tom

Are you saying that you've had contactors weld just from the current of
driving? Nothing to do with opening or closing under load? This would put a
whole new perspective on things. I was under the impression that so long as
you never have to open (or close) appropriately rated contactors under load
they should work fine for a long time. This put a whole new emphasis on the
mechanical disconnect or crowbar circuit.

Dave Cover



> Thos True <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I do not recall the exact wording of the NEDRA (NHRA) rules, but I do
> > recall
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Thos True wrote:
> > I do not recall the exact wording of the NEDRA (NHRA) rules, but I do recall
> > that it states that a mechanical means of disconnect shall be employed.
> > Father Time (my dad) made the decision to make the disconnecting means as
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A contactor can "weld" under load when there is enough current for a long 
enough time to melt the contacts together. The amount of time this takes 
depends on the applied current and contact resistance. It just happens 
that the Albright SW-200 is well cooled (open contacts) and conservatively 
rated.

Read the spec sheet... The SW-200 is only rated to 96V, with a 30% duty 
cycle at 450A!

They seem to tolerate higher voltages well, and are often used in EVs up 
to 144V. I've seen them in race cars for series/parallel switching, 
carrying 1,500A under load. That's probably why the racers ALSO have a 
mechanical disconnect and/or one of the $1,800 Kilovac EV-500 contactors 
for emergency use.

Now the Kilovac LEV200 is rated to 500A and 900V. It's a small, sealed 
unit with no way to inspect the contacts. Contact resistance is about 1/4 
that of the SW-200, but it probably depends on the lugs/wire attached to 
it for heat dissipation. Pretty amazing if it lives up to its specs. I 
don't know of any "real world" data on how well these stand up to regular 
high current draws.

-Adrian



> Cory Cross wrote:
> 
> > What contactor are you using? If it is the SW200, then it is only rated
> > for 120V and probably not the current you are drawing, so the reason for
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The SW-200's we use for switching contactors on the Pinto endure 2000 
amp motor loop currents up to as many as 12 times during a day of racing 
and they don;t even get hot. For sustained use maybe they would. But 
they are surely capable of carrying 2000 amps for at least 12 seconds. 
Now if they were required to break the current under that load I'm 
betting they would liekly meet with disaster. However the Zilla 
Hairball controlls the switching such that no contacts are forced either 
open or closed with the power transistors conducting. So although I can 
ndo what appears to be a full power series/parallel shift with the 
SW-200's the reality is that power is shut of, contacts are made and 
broken, then power is turned back on...all in 300ms. And you're right 
the $1800 Kilovac EV500 "Bubba" contactor is for the emergnecy 
disconnects.

Mike




> Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> 
> > A contactor can "weld" under load when there is enough current for a
> > long enough time to melt the contacts together. The amount of time
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

To be clear here. The contactor that welded in the closed position for our
team was indeed the EV500 Bubba, as was John's. They may be rated as
"emergency disconnects", but don't bet your life on them. Always put a in a
physical backup, whether you race or not.
Most casual observers find them pretty interesting to look at, and they may
save your life.-Tom



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > The SW-200's we use for switching contactors on the Pinto endure 2000
> > amp motor loop currents up to as many as 12 times during a day of racing
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Thos True wrote:
> 
> > To be clear here. The contactor that welded in the closed
> > position for our team was indeed the EV500 Bubba, as was
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes of course mechanical means to disconnect in case of contactor failure is certainly prudent. Especially with 360 volt of pack
that'll push more than 1500 amps :-D

We're using the Red Spot RS-200 Dead Front Fuse Block, except without the fuse. We just have a shorting bar bolted in place of the
fuse (just like John's except ours is black). Since we have separate fuses, breakers and the main contactor, this is simply the
"oh shit" pull bar of last resort ;-)

Mike


_______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

We use in certain electrical installations, devices call CUTOUTS. Cutouts 
are design to be open under load either by a automatic, remote or manual 
means.

Cutouts may look like a enclose circuit breaker, but do not have any 
overloads install, but a solid bar in place of the overloads. There is also 
fuse type of cutout, but I would not install a fuse. I use a solid 
conductor in place of the fuse.

When a fuse blows in one of these cutouts, it propels a charge that opens up 
the switch that holds the fuse. This action needs a lot of clearances for 
it to operated for a open type cutout.

You can get close type insulated cutouts that are rated up to 600 volts 
which we call low voltage. These can also use a explosive acting fuse or a 
solid bar which we call a plug. It has a loop handle where it can pull open 
by either a rod, line, motorize or direct pull action.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Willmon" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects


> Yes of course mechanical means to disconnect in case of contactor failure 
> is certainly prudent. Especially with 360 volt of pack
> that'll push more than 1500 amps :-D
>
> We're using the Red Spot RS-200 Dead Front Fuse Block, except without the 
> fuse. We just have a shorting bar bolted in place of the
> fuse (just like John's except ours is black). Since we have separate 
> fuses, breakers and the main contactor, this is simply the
> "oh shit" pull bar of last resort ;-)
>
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Does anyone know if the Anderson SB-350 connectors, combined with the big
handle, would be sufficient as an interrupt for a 192V pack of Optimas?

Granted, I would have clutch as the final "OH ****," but that would
certainly wreak havoc upon the car.

Also, has anyone ever considered using a giant crowbar circuit to try
blowing the in-line fuses? Perhaps a spare contactor that only gets used
as a last resort? For such a contactor, welding would almost be a
feature.

-Ben

> Yes of course mechanical means to disconnect in case of contactor failure
> is certainly prudent. Especially with 360 volt of pack
> that'll push more than 1500 amps :-D
>
> We're using the Red Spot RS-200 Dead Front Fuse Block, except without the
> fuse. We just have a shorting bar bolted in place of the
> fuse (just like John's except ours is black). Since we have separate
> fuses, breakers and the main contactor, this is simply the
> "oh shit" pull bar of last resort ;-)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Ben Apollonio wrote:
> > Does anyone know if the Anderson SB-350 connectors, combined with the big
> > handle, would be sufficient as an interrupt for a 192V pack of Optimas?
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Ben Apollonio wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know if the Anderson SB-350 connectors, combined
> > with the big handle, would be sufficient as an interrupt for
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > A 3-pole 225A KAL (new surplus) appears to fetch about $600, while a reconditioned one is about $360:
> >
> > <http://www.southlandelectrical.com/items.asp?Cc=CB_SQD_KAL_3P&CatMoveby=0&Nbm=&Pbm=&FromNav=>
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> 
> > Then why does the 250A version cost nearly twice as much as
> > the 225A version?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello John,

The circuit breaker size of 225 amps may be a different frame size as the 
250 amp one.

For example for breakers that are rated at 250 vdc:

The 15 to 100 amp F frame size 3-pole, 600vac,250vdc are $708.00

The 70 to 250 amp K frame size 3-pole, 600vac,250vdc are $2751.00

These two types for that cost are the standard interrupting type. A high 
interrupting circuit breaker will double that cost.

Now if you need a amperage rating higher than 250 amps at 250 vdc, then it 
will require a M Frame C/B as:

The 125 to 1000 amp M frame size 3-pole, 600vac,250vdc is $4800.00 for a 
standard interrupting and $6004.00 for a high interrupting type.

These are the only one's listed in my Square D catalog that are 250 vdc 
rated.

Make sure when you order a breaker, it is also listed for a 250 vdc rating.

Now, you see why that I use a Bussman 400 amp semi-conductor buss bar bolt 
in fuse in my EV for about $50.00 and carry two spares on board the EV.

Roland







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Emergency Disconnects




> > Roger Stockton wrote:
> > > A 3-pole 225A KAL (new surplus) appears to fetch about $600, while a
> > > reconditioned one is about $360:
> > >
> ...


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