# AC50 and medium sized cars



## Franky.EV (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi,

I've put your datas in my calculator, and made a simulation with :
- 32Sx3P Calb-SE100AHA (25kWh usable 91kW max)

The results on flat ground :
- 137 km/h max
- 87 km
- 283 Wh/km

With 8% grade :
- 80 km/h max
- 42 km
- 576 Wh/km


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*It depends*

Since there is no indication of temperature rise of the motor for that dyno chart from HPEVS, it was likely a very short test of peak output and is fairly worthless for your evaluation. A duty cycle test with thermal profile is needed to characterize and rate a motor. Standard duty types for example include: S1 is continuous duty to reach thermal steady-state, S2 is short-term duty at a constant load with no thermal steady-state followed by a cool-down period (e.g. 10,30,60,90 min.), S3 is intermittent duty on-off where the starting current doesn't influence the thermal rise. S4, S5 ,etc... S8 is uninterrupted duty with periodic speed changes (closest to real life for EV). A good quality motor will have the duty cycle type, power, current, time, temperature rise, etc. listed on the name plate such that a usage determination such as you desire can be made. Doubt you will find S8, but S2 is common and would help answer your question. A cooling plate for motor and controller would certainly help in any situation.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't think anyone has ever reported an AC50 getting warm enough to be a concern, and there is no way to effectively water cool it. The inverter is another story.


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## Franky.EV (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi Kennybody, thanks for your comment. In fact, this is just a single simulator based on motion équation. 

But it gives you the time to reach the speed. Here 6 mn with 8° grade.

If the AC50 can stay 6 mn at full power it's ok, otherwise you have to reduce power.

It'll take longer, at a reduced speed, but safer.

The important thing is you can run an 8° grade, with a 1555kg car equiped with an AC50, and with care, as with an ICE car.


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## Richard Wood (Jun 27, 2008)

Hi
I really appreciate the responses and I've downloaded the calculator to have a play - is there an updated one with this motor in it, or do you just add in extra ones somehow?
I was more hoping that someone has had experience with this motor and can explain it's capability on hills and what the peak performance really means - ie. how long would I be able to drive with it at its peak before something bad happens, since I will need to hold that for about 2 minutes up the hill, or even longer if the peak arrives earlier and I have to go slower.
Richard


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I have the smaller AC31 in a 2500lb Fiero and live in a very hilly area. For example from work to home is a 400ft rise over 3 miles, I've never seen elevated motor temps.


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## Franky.EV (Feb 27, 2010)

Hello Richard, I've just upload the speadsheet with HPEVS AC motors.

Follow link at my signature

Cheers.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Richard Wood said:


> The AC50 seems to have the highest profile of the AC Motors but I read varying anecdotal reports of its capability around hills. Chinese BLDC motors are looking very promising as an alternative.
> 
> On my commute I have a hill climb that has to happen. My car is a BMW 318ti. I am doing all my calculations at the GVMR 1555kg just in case.
> The hill is a 4.6 degree angle (8 percent incline). I have calculated this to require 30-35Kw, and as it is 2km I will need to hold this for 90 seconds. If I do 1:1 through a transmission to the 4.44 diff then 3000 RPM will do 80km/h - sounds perfect. (Side question: I haven't decided whether to modify the auto transmission or put in a two speed transmission yet, but understand the former may add significant losses - any idea how bad?).
> ...


 I don't believe you stated at what speed you desire to climb the hill, unless you meant the 80 kph. I can tell you at 40 to 45 mph (67 to 75kph) it requires about 65Ah and about 6825Wh to climb 19 miles (32km) up a 4.5% grade in my about 2250 lb (1023 kg) Swift with an AC50, so about 359Wh/mile or 216Wh/km. It requires about 200A current and 21kW average power, and around 25 -30 minutes to reach the top. Motor temperature at top is about 55C in 70 F (21C) ambient, so about 1.06C/km temperature rise. 

Now, make that a 3400 lb vehicle and 2 km long 8% grade and I would expect around 800Wh/mile and around 50kW power at the same speed, and about a 2*1.06*50/21 = 5C temperature increase. Peak shaft power of the motor with the 650A controller should be around 60kW with a 115V nominal pack. Hopefully this is within +/-30% of actual performance you would get, but no guarantees.


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## Richard Wood (Jun 27, 2008)

Thanks for this. Yes, would like to go 80km/h up this hill.


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## epyon (Mar 20, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> Now, make that a 3400 lb vehicle and 2 km long 8% grade and I would expect around 800Wh/mile and around 50kW power at the same speed, and about a 2*1.06*50/21 = 5C temperature increase. Peak shaft power of the motor with the 650A controller should be around 60kW with a 115V nominal pack. Hopefully this is within +/-30% of actual performance you would get, but no guarantees.


I think this part was mint for me . I will be running a 5.50-1 to a 7.30-1 gears in the car . But if you really think I should use the DC motor in my car .....well I guess ....OK . "But" , 200Ft lbs is great at 1500 RPM on built 5.0 H.O . My street racing engine only had 175Ft lbs at 1500RPM . And if that AC-76 set-up can do 8000+ RPM , I'm in heaven !!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Just remember there won't be much torque left around 8K RPM.


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