# 91 Toyota Tercel - Build Thread



## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi folks,

I've been reading for a few months off and on here, and just took the big plunge. Today I had a 1991 Toyota Tercel 2-door sedan towed across town to my driveway.

It is in great shape; the only obvious problem being a blown head gasket. Amazingly, for an 18 year old (Canadian) car, the body is almost entirely rust free. I'm told it was a BC car most of its life, and I'm inclined to believe it. For under $300 CND, taxes and ownership in, I think it was quite the steal, but only time will tell.

My conversion plan is amorphous, but is centered on the idea of a cheap and simple conversion. I have a 11 km round trip commute, and this will be a second car for us, so range is not my biggest concern. If I get 35-40 km total range I'll be laughing all the way across town.

Anyway, not much progress to report today (started stripping the ICE components out) but I'll keep this thread up-to-date. Stay tuned.

I have attached a (rather unflattering) picture of myself and the car. I really should learn to keep my big mouth shut!

(It is also worth noting that this is, technically, my first car ever. But, my brother is a gearhead, so I should have lots of help.)

+-----------------------EDIT

Below is a link to data I am logging about the conversion. I am making it available in case it is useful to someone else.

EV project budget and weight tracker: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r-CNc_xo1jGERDhmEcKcMpg&output=html

+-----------------------


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

camerondmm said:


> Amazingly, for an 18 year old (Canadian) car,


So what would that be in american years? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I actually considered that model of car among others before settling on my saturn. Should be a great donor considering how light they are. The bottom door edges and pillar roots are areas you might want to pay close attention to to make sure there isn't any structural rust setting in.

Have you decided on your top speed requirement?

Welcome to the forum, Nice to see yet another canadian coming on line.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

That's an amazing shape, it looks almost new! Good luck!


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Haven't had too much time to work on it these past two days, but got a bit done each night.

The gas tank is emptied and out (what an awful job) and a few other things are gone too (air box, intake manifold, etc.) Maybe tomorrow I'll get the fluids out - then I'll really be able to go hog wild in the engine bay.

I've been weighing everything I take out. Maybe I'll turn the data into a Google Docs spredsheet and share it in the thread. It'll be interesting to see just how much weight is directly related to the ICE in a ~2000 lb car.

Oh, and david85, if it is anything like drinking it must be 21.

Cheers.

+------------------Edit
I've added a section in the first post with links to data sheets. I'll add more when I get to it.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

fyi.. I weighed EVERYTHING that came out of my car. all ICE components came in at 600lbs. Maybe 40lbs of that went back in (battery, brackets, etc..) I also weighed everything that went in to the conversion. Actually, I went to the truck scales before and after conversion (my car was running when I bought it) and it was EXACTLY what I came up with on paper... 2500lbs OEM - 3200lbs EV.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

A bit more progress tonight. Got the entire exhaust system removed (only had to cut it at one point, thankfully) and a few associated things, like some heat shielding.

I've updated the link in the first post to include my weight chart as well.

PatricioIN: It is good to know that your conversion only added ~700 lbs total weight. There are about 850 lbs between the Tercel's standard curb and GVWR weights... So once I loose the engine etc. I should be good!


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

Your Idea of Google Docs ....

EFFIN PRICELESS!!

Might seem like a normal idea, but it adds alot of good information to your built. 

Major Props.


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## Carroll_1 (Dec 18, 2007)

Here's a link to our 92 Tercel conversion that we finished up this spring. 

http://www.ev-solutions.net/wp/?cat=31

Best of luck with your conversion!


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey Carroll_1, thanks for the link. I looked through the conversion and is looks very well done. Lots of good info. I do have one question; was there a particular reason you chose to replace the vacuum reservoir? Was it simply too small?

Anyway, more baby steps last few nights. Got the engine oil drained, coolant out and a few other blocks of iron/odds and sods removed. Already at the 200 lb mark (counting the fluids, which are part of the curb weight), so looking good. Pretty much just the radiator, fan, some belts, and lots of hoses before I can pull the main block.

I guess I'll have to start sizing up branches on the old sugar maple out back!


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## Carroll_1 (Dec 18, 2007)

To be honest, I never saw the original vac reservoir. Our local high school vocational center students removed the ICE as a class project. The spare parts were gathered in a box, but the steel tank reservoir was included when I ordered the vac pump system, so I never actually looked for the original.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Ah, that explains it then. The original chamber seems like a pretty good size, and it mounts flat in an out of the way spot. I'll probably try to keep it. Seems like it'd be less of a hassle than redoing the master cylinder and everything.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

A few more small steps this morning. The radiator, engine fan, and charcoal filters are all removed. I've also disconnected all vacuum hoses and wiring from the motor. The steering pump is moved (to make room to move the block out) and all drive belts are disconnected.

The last thing to do before removing the engine and transaxle (which have to come out together on this model) is disconnect the shafts from the front wheels. I'll have to remove the front wheel to do this, which means I have put the car on stands instead of the ramps I'm using now.

I'm about to go away for almost two weeks, so I'll leave it on ramps for now and start again once I am back. See you all then.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Great progress, I'm just now getting to that point. I too have to take off the front wheels - what a pain in the @#%@# they make it to take one of these out!

Then again, I guess that's a good thing. If it just fell out it would be kinda... well, BAD.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

.... and we're back.

Been super busy at work after my holiday, but things are starting to get moving on the Tercel again.

The car didn't come with a tire iron, so I had to pick up a 21mm socket today. Also had to pick up a 30mm deep socket to remove the axel nuts. You know, its pretty funny; at the store the rack of individual sockets stops at 27mm deep, but goes to 34mm standard... and sitting three isles away at 3 times the price is a 30mm deep socket labelled "Axel Nut Socket". Gotta love it.

Now the only thing holding up dropping the engine is a wheel which is rusted on. Maybe I'll have time tomorrow to beat it with a hammer some more. Anyone have tips for wheels which are seized on?


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

camerondmm said:


> .... and we're back.
> 
> Been super busy at work after my holiday, but things are starting to get moving on the Tercel again.
> 
> ...


Have you already tried penetrating oil? I'm about 50/50 with it.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey rillip3,

Ya, I've soaked it in WD-40 and some liquid wrench. Maybe it'll be more cooperative tonight. If not, I've got a 2x4 and a heavy hammer; we'll see what happens.

The good news is it looks like the drive axels slide easily (relatively speaking) in their splines, so hopefully no problems there.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

camerondmm said:


> Hey rillip3,
> 
> Ya, I've soaked it in WD-40 and some liquid wrench. Maybe it'll be more cooperative tonight. If not, I've got a 2x4 and a heavy hammer; we'll see what happens.
> 
> The good news is it looks like the drive axels slide easily (relatively speaking) in their splines, so hopefully no problems there.


Gav also had some luck with heating with a weak torch flame. Gotta be careful not to melt or cut it, but I haven't tried that myself.


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## 2fast4u (May 31, 2009)

Find a friend with an impact maybe?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Heat will help even if all you have is a propane plumbing torch, but you might have to get it to glow a little before it will give in. That will take a while with a propane flame, but it can be done.

A BFH also works, but I'm used to 3/4 ton trucks not subcompact cars so I'm not sure how much abuse those wheels can take. Usually a good kick gets mine off.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys.

2fast4u: I actually have all of the lug nuts removed (I used an impact converter for an electric drill because I forgot to loosen them before putting it on jack stands).

I'll try my plumber's torch if I don't have any luck otherwise.


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## liquidferrum (Jun 21, 2009)

if none of that works, sometimes it helps to get it hot, and touch the thread/joint with beeswax. It sucks up inside there and makes things easier.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

So, I did get the tire off, and a whole lot more too.

The evidence? See below:









My brother and I went for it, and dropped the engine (and transaxle) out through the bottom of the engine bay. Lowered it down, blocked the engine, and brought the car back up. It was pretty rough and tumble at the end, but not in a bad way. We were just ready to be done, so we strapped the sucker up and tipped it over. A short human powered tractor pull later and the engine was sitting in front of the car.

Anyway, feels pretty good. I guess now's the time to go and start looking for an electric motor.

Wish me luck.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

great progress, good luck!


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi guys,

Not having much luck hunting up used/salvaged parts in my neck of the woods.

I'm currently thinking about going with an Impulse 8" motor (203-06-4001R) and a Logisystems WarPcore 120FFX (72-120 volt, 550 amp) controller. They seem like a quite capable pair for a car as light as my Tercel. There are certainly other conversions out there with similar guts. I plan to run somewhere around 96 volts to start, but both components goto 120, so I've got wriggle room. Anyone want to chime in at this point? Anyone with an up to date Logisystem?

And finally, a question: can I just completely remove the engine computer from my vehicle? Although mine was fuel injected, I'm pretty sure this model year of the Tercel was available with a carburator.

Thanks guys!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

check to see where your speedometer gets it's signal or if it's cable driven.. I left the pcu in my conversion mainly for those type of functions - otherwise I don't think I would need it. Since yours is a '91.. I just don't know if it still uses a cable for speedo (and maybe similar issues if you want to keep a tach)


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Ya, the speedo is a cable off of the transaxle, so no worries there.

The funny thing is... It's a manual without a tach. So if I want one I'll have to cook one up myself anyway.

At this point i'm pretty sure I'm just gonna yank the whole thing.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Thats a good piece of info. Didn't know toyota was still using a cable driven mechanical speedo even on something in the 90s. My saturn is all electronic so the PCM will have to stay. For now at least.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Just a qick note to say I've gone ahead and ordered the parts (an Impulse 8" motor and a Logisystems WarPcore 120FFX (72-120 volt, 550 amp) controller). I'll post pics when they arrive!


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

My 2001 Suzuki Swift has a speedometer cable. According to the shop manual the ecm (engine control module) only interfaces to engine controls/sensors, so I pulled it out and cut off the Medusa of sensor wires except for the backup sensor on the transmission and 12V ignition wire.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Exciting times, folks.
Look what arrived yesterday!









A brand-spanking-new 8" ImPulse electric motor.
The controller is set to arrive next week. I'd better get the flywheel measured up and start the adaptor plate.


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## paker (Jun 20, 2008)

My beef with Toyota is when the 20 year mark is hit you can't easily find Toyota parts their cars, be it after market or dealer. Salvage yards crush their 20 year old Toyotas. I went through that with my '81 and '82 Toyota Cressidas.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Well, I will have a few replacment parts to hunt up when the time comes. I know that the local parts store has basic stuff (brakes and other wear parts). A few local junkers also have manual steering racks, which I might install.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

A few updates:

The controller came in a few weeks ago, just haven't had a chance to post a picture until now. It is a WarpCore model (eg. Logisystems), but isn't red.







Don't mind the cat, he's just for scale (har, har).

It also came with this little potbox.








Also attached is a quick picture of my 'drafting' using Google SketchUp. It looks like I may be able to get away without any spacers, as long as I make the actual motor mounting plate 1". It's tight, but it seems to go. I'll have to double check everything later.








It's starting to get exciting! If I really don't need any spacers, I can just get the plate waterjet/laser cut. Should be pretty affordable. If it is aluminum I can tap it all myself very easily.

Has anyone else been able to forgo spacers, and get it all to fit "inside" the plate? What seems to be helping me a lot is that the flywheel on the Tercel only sits 8mm inside the transmission bell housing.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Time warp! We're back!

Its been a long and cold Ottawa winter, and the little green Tercel has been living in a plastic tent for many months. However, the weather has been unseasonably warm here this March, so I've been out poking around the car again.

I assembled a wooden mock-up of the motor cage and adapter plate. The design is different from the sketch above. I'll post the drawings when all the kinks are worked out.















I also made some cardboard batteries. A 12v US 185 HC XC and an 8v T-875, specifically. Here they are sitting in my backseat.









I think I can fit 6 of the 185's, or 13 of the 875's, in the back seat. That leaves 2 of each to fit in the rest of the car for a 96v or 120v pack, respectively. The lion's share of the weight of the batteries will be between the axles this way, but the CoG will move up. Nothing is nailed down yet.

We'll see how everything progresses from here.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Really looks like everything is coming together very nicely!


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey, thanks procupine14. So far so good, but it is a big job yet.

This evening I got up to some pretty fun tomfoolery. I mounted the transmission and motor cage mock-up in the engine bay. They fit!








This photo shows the clearance for the tail shaft of the 8" motor.








This one show the extra space at the front of the engine bay. Looks like I'll have some space in front of and above the motor.








Getting closer to fabricating the actual motor cage...


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Just got word of a new ban of registering EVs here in Ontario, Canada. Things are looking poor for this conversion, but I will investigate further.


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

camerondmm said:


> Just got word of a new ban of registering EVs here in Ontario, Canada. Things are looking poor for this conversion, but I will investigate further.


Oh no that's terrible!  Why would they do something like that?!?!


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Well, it's not really very clear why.

Anyone who is interested can read more here: http://evco.ca/site/ev-conversion-ban-in-ontario


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Please keep us posted on what you find out. This is not amusing in the least.

I can think if a few reasons they would want to do this and none of them are good.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Well, nothing on the phone today except a lot of run around (no, Mr. Service Ontario rep., I'm sure that registering a car in Ontario is not under Federal jurisdiction, no matter how many times to insist 'electric is different').

Ya, lots of reasons. Lets just hope they don't adopt the federal crash test standards for electrics... That would be a swift end to conversions.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

camerondmm said:


> Well, nothing on the phone today except a lot of run around (no, Mr. Service Ontario rep., I'm sure that registering a car in Ontario is not under Federal jurisdiction, no matter how many times to insist 'electric is different').
> 
> Ya, lots of reasons. Lets just hope they don't adopt the federal crash test standards for electrics... That would be a swift end to conversions.


That would be difficult to justify becuase I suspect there is still a decent sized following in ontario for gas powered custom cars and ground up hot rods. Not that I know the feeling on the street in ontario very well but I suspect there isn't much of an apetite to try and crush the hot rod industry. In fact any reason for this change would be difficult to justify, hence the run around you, and others are getting.

The only other case I heard of like this was the state of Oklahoma. They put a voltage cap of 80V on any home built vehicle that is not built or serviced by a properly certified technician. To get certified involves taking a state run course every year that costs several thousand dollars - every year.

And yes, its a provincial decision, not federal.


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## camerondmm (Apr 28, 2009)

Well, this went public a little while ago. Ontario has lifted its ban on registering electric conversions. http://www.10n10.ca/e/Ontario%20EV%20Ban.shtml

I didn't notice anything on here, but I don't always read the news section. I thought I'd post in my build thread since this sub-forum gets so much of the traffic.

I'm still trying to figure out what I'll do/how I'll continue. In the mean time, after the ban was announced, I picked up a '94 SAAB 900 (non-turbo), to get to work when it's raining and I don't want to bike. It's fun to drive and is my first manual ever, so it has been an exciting learning experience (why else do we do things like convert cars, except for the experiences?).

Once I figure out what I'm doing, I'll post any further progress here!


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks for the update. I sure hope they don't pull a stunt like this again anytime soon.


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