# [EVDL] New to list, building electric jeep



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello,

I'm new to the list and thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Ben Jar=
rett and I'm an electrical
engineer who works for Apple. I live in Austin, TX.

Currently, I'm building an electric 1984 Jeep CJ7. I'm keeping the 4wd. =
My project
is not just a conversion, but a restoration too. Since I have 3 young ki=
ds, it's taking me a quite a while.

Project plans/details.
Here's what I have so far:
* warp 9 dc motor
* www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)

* stock 4 speed tranny and transfercase (t4 and dana 300)

Here's what I'm planning to get:
* soliton or soliton jr (trying to decide if jr is enough...)
* 48 HiPower 160 Ah LiFePO4 batteries

Other project details:
* manual steering
* manual brakes
* fiberglass body, hood, and fenders (to help save some weight)
* stock lift
* non-agressive tires

My hope is that I can go about 50 miles max, but I will typically only go 2=
0-30 miles per day.
I decided to do a jeep because I find them fun - although I realize the 4wd=
weight and aerodynamics
of a brick are not so good for an ev. I have pics here:
http://gallery.me.com/benandjeri#100212&bgcolor=3Dblack&view=3Dgrid

http://gallery.me.com/benandjeri#100228&bgcolor=3Dblack&view=3Dgrid


So my big question right now is picking the right controller. I think my=
batteries can handle
5C for short burst, which is 800 amps. I was going to limit the controll=
er to 750 amps. If
I only have the 600 amp Soliton JR, will that be enough, or should I go for=
the extra 150 amps?

thanks!
-ben
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ben,
Good luck with your project. There is an electric Jeep about 80 miles away in 
San Antonio built by Nick Viera,
http://www.evalbum.com/589
I haven't seen him on the list for awhile (I'm guessing he's busy with college).
Rod


----- Original Message ----
From: Ben Jarrett <[email protected]>
To: Electric Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, August 15, 2011 8:00:46 AM
Subject: [EVDL] New to list, building electric jeep




Hello,

I'm new to the list and thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Ben Jarrett 
and I'm an electrical
engineer who works for Apple. I live in Austin, TX.

Currently, I'm building an electric 1984 Jeep CJ7. I'm keeping the 4wd. My 
project
is not just a conversion, but a restoration too. Since I have 3 young kids, 
it's taking me a quite a while.

Project plans/details.
Here's what I have so far:
* warp 9 dc motor
* www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)

* stock 4 speed tranny and transfercase (t4 and dana 300)

Here's what I'm planning to get:
* soliton or soliton jr (trying to decide if jr is enough...)
* 48 HiPower 160 Ah LiFePO4 batteries

Other project details:
* manual steering
* manual brakes
* fiberglass body, hood, and fenders (to help save some weight)
* stock lift
* non-agressive tires

My hope is that I can go about 50 miles max, but I will typically only go 20-30 
miles per day.
I decided to do a jeep because I find them fun - although I realize the 4wd 
weight and aerodynamics
of a brick are not so good for an ev. I have pics here:
http://gallery.me.com/benandjeri#100212&bgcolor=black&view=grid

http://gallery.me.com/benandjeri#100228&bgcolor=black&view=grid


So my big question right now is picking the right controller. I think my 
batteries can handle
5C for short burst, which is 800 amps. I was going to limit the controller to 
750 amps. If
I only have the 600 amp Soliton JR, will that be enough, or should I go for the 
extra 150 amps?

thanks!
-ben
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|
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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

<My hope is that I can go about 50 miles max, but I will typically only go 20-30
miles per day>

with 160 amp hours you should have no trouble doing 50 miles, unless
you are in very hilly territory or driving over 70mph.

<I decided to do a jeep because I find them fun - although I realize the 4wd
weight and aerodynamics
of a brick are not so good for an ev. >

these are two negatives for sure. but if you aren't going to drive
too fast, they won't hurt so much.


So my big question right now is picking the right controller. I think my
batteries can handle
5C for short burst, which is 800 amps. I was going to limit the controller to
750 amps. If
I only have the 600 amp Soliton JR, will that be enough, or should I go for the
extra 150 amps?>

thanks!
-ben
One thing that is often missed when people are considering the size of
the controller .... is the Battery Amps... vs... Motor Amps. when
you take OFF from a stand still, you may not be pulling a lot of
battery Amps... but your MOTOR AMPS will be quite high. The
Controller acts like a big variable transformer going into a variable
resistance load.

When the motor RPM is low, its resistance is also low, the amperage
can be very high at this point, even with low motor volts. Power is
Amps x Volts. Getting the larger controller will give much more
power on the take off. You may never pull 500 amps from the battery
side, but it is easy to have 1000 motor amps when taking off.

I put a motor amp meter on Audrey's little "Green Bean" and saw 500
motor amps with only 10 battery amps when taking off from a stand
still.

steve Clunn

-- 
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, I've heard others say the aluminum hub might not hold up. We shall =
see. I'm skeptical,
but Charile (from evcouplerconnection) assures me it will be fine. It's =
nice that it's lightweight
to keep inertia down. Be nice if there was a steel sleeve inside of the =
aluminum hub or something.

-ben


________________________________
From: Al <[email protected]>
To: Ben Jarrett <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List=
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New to list, building electric jeep

I was looking at the couplers on the website you provided.

* www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)

I applaud the owner for offering low cost couplers.
Isn't aluminum too soft to use on a motor shaft with a keyway?
Even if it is fairly large in diameter I would think it would loosen
over time from the extreme torque loads.

Al


Project plans/details.
Here's what I have so far:
* warp 9 dc motor
* www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)

| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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|
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was looking at the couplers on the website you provided.

* www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)

I applaud the owner for offering low cost couplers.
Isn't aluminum too soft to use on a motor shaft with a keyway?
Even if it is fairly large in diameter I would think it would loosen
over time from the extreme torque loads.

Al


Project plans/details.
Here's what I have so far:
* warp 9 dc motor
* www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)

| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

There is no problem in using series 7000 or even series 8000 aluminum. The 
series 7000 aluminum is really a alloy of aluminum, copper and chromium.

I have work with series 8000 aluminum which is a alloy of aluminum, iron and 
nickel which I had to use tungsten or even diamond cutting tools to work it. 
A hack saw will just slide off it.

If you tried to roll a thin sheet of it, it will come out of the rollers 
straight. If you tried to bend it in a brake machine at a 90 degree angle, 
it will snap right back leaving a little crease. The crease cannot be roll 
out flat again.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Al" <[email protected]>
To: "Ben Jarrett" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New to list, building electric jeep


> I was looking at the couplers on the website you provided.
>
> * www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)
>
> I applaud the owner for offering low cost couplers.
> Isn't aluminum too soft to use on a motor shaft with a keyway?
> Even if it is fairly large in diameter I would think it would loosen
> over time from the extreme torque loads.
>
> Al
>
>
> Project plans/details.
> Here's what I have so far:
> * warp 9 dc motor
> * www.evcouplerconnection.com coupler/adapter (clutchless)
>
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have 45 Thundersky cells in the 100Ah size (LFP100) and I get 50 miles in
a somewhat smaller vehicle (Honda del Sol, but heavier than you might guess
at 2500 pounds.) 

I agree that 50 miles should be feasible with 48 160 Ah cells, even with a
heavier vehicle.

However, I'm not sure you're going to see 800 battery amps from these 160 Ah
cells. I'm only seeing about 3C from my cells. You might get the
higher-power controller for takeoff performance, but I wouldn't expect to
pull much more than 500A from the cells for more than a few seconds. 

I'm not sure how conservatively the Soliton controller is spec'ed, but many
of the smaller controllers use their maximum output as their spec number;
even if they can only do it for a few seconds. If the Soliton has those
tendencies, you might want the higher power controller just to pull those
500A for a slightly extended period (say accelerating for 30 seconds). 

For example, I tend to view the Kelly Controllers to be practically usable
at about 1/2 their stated current specification.

Mike
www.evalbum.com/2778


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Steve Clunn
> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 8:05 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] New to list, building electric jeep
> 
> <My hope is that I can go about 50 miles max, but I will typically only go
20-30
> miles per day>
> 
> with 160 amp hours you should have no trouble doing 50 miles, unless you
> are in very hilly territory or driving over 70mph.
> 
> <I decided to do a jeep because I find them fun - although I realize the
4wd
> weight and aerodynamics of a brick are not so good for an ev. >
> 
> these are two negatives for sure. but if you aren't going to drive too
fast,
> they won't hurt so much.
> 
> 
> So my big question right now is picking the right controller. I think my
> batteries can handle 5C for short burst, which is 800 amps. I was going
to limit
> the controller to
> 750 amps. If
> I only have the 600 amp Soliton JR, will that be enough, or should I go
for the
> extra 150 amps?>
> 
> thanks!
> -ben
> One thing that is often missed when people are considering the size of
> the controller .... is the Battery Amps... vs... Motor Amps. when
> you take OFF from a stand still, you may not be pulling a lot of battery
> Amps... but your MOTOR AMPS will be quite high. The Controller acts like
a
> big variable transformer going into a variable resistance load.
> 
> When the motor RPM is low, its resistance is also low, the amperage can be
> very high at this point, even with low motor volts. Power is
> Amps x Volts. Getting the larger controller will give much more
> power on the take off. You may never pull 500 amps from the battery side,
> but it is easy to have 1000 motor amps when taking off.
> 
> I put a motor amp meter on Audrey's little "Green Bean" and saw 500 motor
> amps with only 10 battery amps when taking off from a stand still.
> 
> steve Clunn
> 
> --
> Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
> Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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|
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