# Batt wire lugs: crimp, solder, or hammer crimp?



## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

What is the best way to put lugs on the battery cables? I was thinking of using FTZ or similar high quality tinned lugs. Best brand/place to get them?

Method of attachment:

1. Expensive hex crimper.
2. Buy the "fusion" terminals with solder in them and heat them up.
3. $10 hammer crimper.

Ideas and/or experiences? Failures?

Thanks!


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Ruckus I can help you out here. I am a Telecom Power Engineer for all the big boys are they use the best products, tooling and methods money can buy. Basically any battery or power connections are designed to last 30 years.

You want to use Lead Plated Compression Terminals on battery term post and inter-cell connections. The best out there are Burndy. CLICK HERE TO SEE LIST EDIT: click Uninsulated > Terminals > Lead Plated to see product list


  
You want to use a tool made specifically for the terminals that when used will make a LISTED COMPRESSION. These are usually hydraulic 14 and 15 ton tools either battery operated or some are hand pump or AC powered. You will need to look at the selected terminal to determine which tool is appropriate like THIS ONE and use the proper set of dies.

The other thing you will want to do is use a anti-oxidant compound. When you skin the wire you want to lightly coat the conductors before applying the terminal and compressing it. Then clean the mating surfaces between the terminal and contact surface with a light coat of compound. Here is the best compound ever made. NO-OX-ID A Special


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I generally use tin plated Magna Lugs and this crimper that I bought years ago (that used to cost A LOT less.)

I have not had any connection issues using this hardware. I generally use a hardware store dissimilar metal grease (commonly used for aluminum connections.) I wipe a thin film inside the terminal and on the stripped wire end. You don't want to much because if you create a hydraulic lock inside when crimping you will break the terminal. I cover all terminals with sealant lined heat shrink, in red for positive and black for negative.


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

EVfun said:


> I generally use tin plated Magna Lugs and this crimper that I bought years ago (that used to cost A LOT less.)
> 
> I have not had any connection issues using this hardware. I generally use a hardware store dissimilar metal grease (commonly used for aluminum connections.) I wipe a thin film inside the terminal and on the stripped wire end. You don't want to much because if you create a hydraulic lock inside when crimping you will break the terminal. I cover all terminals with sealant lined heat shrink, in red for positive and black for negative.


You can save about $80.00 on that crimping tool here:

http://www.cloudelectric.com/product_p/to-4255.htm


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Good work finding a deal. I paid about $80 less than the Cloud Electric price, but that was 12 years ago!


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2011)

Hammer Crimping was my choice and the quality has been excellent. Quality of the crimp has been just as tight or tighter than quality crimp tools. I have cut many to determine my needs. I only built one conversion so I could not see the value in spending huge bucks on all that stuff. Now if I were to do a few or more then spending the money on a good professional crimper might be a good choice but you need to get a real good one. 

If you go with the heavy tinned lugs then you need to have a squeeze crimper rather than a hammer one. I am sure a hammer one may work but they work best on the thinner copper lugs. 

Mine are still in excellent condition and about 3 years old now. 

Pete 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byZOL3XgKgA


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I used a hammer crimp for my heavy tinned lugs; took about 20 whacks with a mini-sledge ea.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

don't solder.

if you are only doing one car, especially if going Li and only need a few cable ends, a hammer crimper will be fine. if you are doing LOTS, a quality hex crimper is faster. Both result in great connections, especially if you follow with quality glued heat-shrink over cable/lug joint.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

I bought the hydraulic crimper from evsource.com:

http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php

It works GREAT! Lead time is 4-5 weeks now from them, so it looks like they ran out of stock.

corbin


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

I bought the same crimper off ebay for just under $60 incl shipping.

Roy





corbin said:


> I bought the hydraulic crimper from evsource.com:
> 
> http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php
> 
> ...


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> I bought the same crimper off ebay for just under $60 incl shipping.
> 
> Roy


Really, which one and where on ebay? I searched everywhere but could not find a better price than evsource (mine was used, and cheaper than the new ones they have listed now).

corbin


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

Not sure if this is the exact one I got, but this is the place I got it from.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HYDRAULIC-ELECT...lectrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item2c5ac69dbd

Roy





corbin said:


> Really, which one and where on ebay? I searched everywhere but could not find a better price than evsource (mine was used, and cheaper than the new ones they have listed now).
> 
> corbin


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## cyclops2 (Feb 12, 2011)

A look a BIG stand up fork truck batteries will reveal that Solder is never used. Pure Lead is used to put a new cable on. So that leaves a compression connector for us non Lead mold guys.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> I bought the same crimper off ebay for just under $60 incl shipping.
> Roy


DOH!!  

That looks like a killer deal. Only issue is it only goes to 2/0. My guy decided to go with 4/0.  I guess we DO have high current flow (1000A) and low voltage (96v).

I missed a $300 hex crimper for $50 cause my $%*@# internet went down 3 min. before the auction ended. I ended up buying a heavy-duty mechanical crimper. Unfortunately it has a u-crimp instead of a hex. But I think it will work ok. I also have a hammer crimper that I haven't used. Not sure about it, but folks here seem to be happy with the results.

I will post pics when I do some crimps.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

With my EV only running 72volts, I made my terminals from copper tubing and soldered all the cables. No crimping.

5 years and not one problem.

Would do it again.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> Not sure if this is the exact one I got, but this is the place I got it from.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/HYDRAULIC-ELECT...lectrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item2c5ac69dbd
> 
> Roy


 
Probably not the same, as that one only goes to 00, but if that's all you need, Harbor freight has it for $45 on coupon


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Probably not the same, as that one only goes to 00, but if that's all you need, Harbor freight has it for $45 on coupon


 
Make sure the kit you are buying has the chrome plated dies. For some reason, up to about 3 monts ago when I last checked the kits with the chrome dies were not available in the US. You had to go to Australia or Europe to get one. I haven't checked lately.

Be sure the seller guantees that the set has the chrome dies, not the black ones. The chrome 00 dies measure about 3/8 inch accros the flats and the black 00 dies measue 5/16 or so.

The kits like the Harbor Freight ones have black dies that are undersized. The one I bought have the die marked 00 will only handle 6 AWG with heavy lugs or 4 AWG with light (thin) lugs. 

The remaing dies are also undersized. The one marked 12AWG would maybe crimp an uninsulated 18 AWG lug.

If you are going to do 0 and up cable, the next size up kit, the 16 ton, has dies of the proper AWG sze.


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## cyclops2 (Feb 12, 2011)

I would make up a wire & lug size list. drive over to each electrican locally & beg in their shop for a price that is cheaper than buying all the compression gear.

Their gear has the EXACT SIZE that will be needed.Copper or Aluminum They should also pick the right size. IF your batteries have Aluminium connections. USE ALUMINUM RATED lugs. Copper & aluminum pressed together causes Galvanic corrosion between them at high current flows. Metal transfer & then lower pressure between the cable & battery posts.

Make sure you get the correct bolt hole sizes by taking the correct size bolts or nuts with you when you order the lugs.
Wrong ones come. Refuse them. Lots of places refuse to accept special order electrical Aluminium lugs BACK....NO REFUND.....Pay only by a credit card. Make sure there are no fees if the wrong lugs come in. Credit card ONLY. If the place says not credit card. DO NOT ORDER THERE. They are telling you they do NOT KNOW what they are doing. My take on electrical places.

I have 6 local electrical places. Only 2 are perfect. Wrong part comes in, they call about a delay, the right ones come in. I only have to make 1 pleasant trip to pick up the correct parts at the agreed price.

Specify what you want & expect. It makes the order easier for both of you if a problem comes up.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

cyclops2 said:


> Make sure you get the correct bolt hole sizes by taking the bolts or nuts with you...
> Pay only by a credit card.
> Make sure there are no fees if the wrong lugs come in.
> Credit card ONLY. If the place says no credit card. DO NOT ORDER THERE.
> Specify what you want & expect. It makes the order easier for both of you if a problem comes up.


This is good advice for buying ANY components...


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

I highly suggest you use a professional grade tool like Burndy PAT46-18V 15 ton hydraulic with Burndy lead plated compression terminals, and a NO-OX-ID A Special grease to lightly coat the conductors and mating surfaces. You can rent the tool for a day or two from an electrical supply house. Using the tools and components listed is the best you can get and will last for 30 years or more. When properly terminated the connection resistance will be less than 10 micro-ohms and the compression terminal will be stronger than the cable it is bonded too. No other method can match it.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

cyclops2 said:


> IF your batteries have Aluminium connections. USE ALUMINUM RATED lugs. Copper & aluminum pressed together causes Galvanic corrosion between them at high current flows. Metal transfer & then lower pressure between the cable & battery posts.


The thundersky have one aluminum and one copper. 

I ended up buying the tinned copper ASK Dura Lugs since they had the best specs I could find. They are thicker and wider. They had a 10 lug minimum for each size. I needed 6 3/8", 8 5/16", and 6 1/2", so I had to order a total extra of 10 lugs. 
http://www.asklug.com/lug_dura_1to4.html
Notice that the thickness goes up to .18"!! 

Do you think it would be better to make up cables with one aluminum end and one copper to match the battery connections?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

ruckus said:


> Do you think it would be better to make up cables with one aluminum end and one copper to match the battery connections?


No. I would much rather be dealing with a bolt together aluminum connection than a crimped aluminum connection.


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## cyclops2 (Feb 12, 2011)

There are good electrical supply places that sell lugs that are made for Aluminum.
For copper.
For copper & Aluminum wire. 

Wacky battery company that sells it with 2 different metals. Never even head of that in a lifetime of BIG UPS batteries for computers. I would call them and say. What is the big idea of using 2 different types of post metals. SAD. Really sad.

Some average electrican will just do Copper and be happy.


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## cyclops2 (Feb 12, 2011)

Bolt together lugs are meant to be used in emergencies only. There is absolutly no way anyone can tighten all the screws / bolts down evenly on all the strands of wire.
Plus. Most times some strands of wire unravel as the 2 pieces are tightened down. It is not as good as a lug with a tube end. 
Please use a compression tube type at the currents & $$$ invested in the EV.

Power & light companies & NASA all use compression for very good reasons. Main one is, good even resistance on all strands in the tube.


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> I bought the same crimper off ebay for just under $60 incl shipping.
> 
> Roy


Where did you get it? Anyway it seems like you really only need the dies and a vise. Yes, I know I'm cheap.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

Post #12....

Roy




rfhendrix said:


> Where did you get it? Anyway it seems like you really only need the dies and a vise. Yes, I know I'm cheap.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2011)

rfhendrix said:


> Where did you get it? Anyway it seems like you really only need the dies and a vise. Yes, I know I'm cheap.


Don't think you can get enough pressure with a vice. These take tons of pressure. Even the hammer crimper puts tons of force upon the connection. Seems like the vice would be enough but the truth is it won't be. If you want on the cheap get a hammer crimper and 4# sledge at minimum and you will have a set of tools that will last you a very long time. 

Pete 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byZOL3XgKgA


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

Thank you!


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## cyclops2 (Feb 12, 2011)

A good hammer crimper is also acceptable. I have used them also.

Wire strands & tolerances are kind of loose since the whole word is making wire now.

Cut a piece of wire off and strip off about 1 " of the insulation VERY NEATLY. NO twisted strands. Must be perfectly ROUND. Take that piece to the electrical place so the can pick the RIGHT size lug opening for the wire.

At 2/0 to 4/0 AWG you do NOT want too loose or too tight of a fit. Otherwise hammer, hand or hydraulic crimpers can not do the job right.

I have CAREFULLY cut a few strands off if it was needed to fit into the opening. Q C is very random.


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