# Volt Electric Car Gets Improved Tires, Lighter Sound System



## EVDL Archive (Jul 26, 2007)

Lower rolling resistance and more efficient sound system translates into squeezing more miles out of the car's battery pack.

More...


----------



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

These people really have no idea what they are doing, do they?


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

Jason Lattimer said:


> These people really have no idea what they are doing, do they?


I said that 6 months ago when I heard the volt would use 16kwh to go 40 miles, and did better in a wind tunnel backwards.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Jason Lattimer said:


> These people really have no idea what they are doing, do they?


Nope. Not a clue.

They even had problems with the heater system saying it was really really hard to make something for an EV. Yea right. The older EV1 had a heat pump that worked as a heater and AC cooler. They are either incredably stupid or think that the general public is.

Hmmm.......


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h5AOWL0fRE


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

ev-america's 1500W heater works great in my truck putting out 2000W or so at 144V. 

As far as 16kw to go 40 miles, 400w/mile ain't bad compared to my electron burner. I'm getting somewhere around 615-650 watts/mile. That said our area is Spartanburg SC and is fairly hilly sitting at the foothills of the Appalachian mountains, only short stretches of flat roads, that and I've been using my 2000W heater quite a bit along with 110W of head lights.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> ev-america's 1500W heater works great in my truck putting out 2000W or so at 144V.
> 
> As far as 16kw to go 40 miles, 400w/mile ain't bad compared to my electron burner. I'm getting somewhere around 615-650 watts/mile. That said our area is Spartanburg SC and is fairly hilly sitting at the foothills of the Appalachian mountains, only short stretches of flat roads, that and I've been using my 2000W heater quite a bit along with 110W of head lights.


400 wh/mile is pretty horrific for a lithium powered EV (probably with regen no less).

it would be equitable to converting most 6000+lb trucks with lithium.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Technologic said:


> 400 wh/mile is pretty horrific for a lithium powered EV (probably with regen no less).
> 
> it would be equitable to converting most 6000+lb trucks with lithium.


Yea, I didn't factor in 10-15% less with regen and 3/4 ton less weight in batteries. My batteries and box probably weight about 1700 lbs. And my S10 is about as aerodynamic as a brick, it's the older style, very boxy.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Yea, I didn't factor in 10-15% less with regen and 3/4 ton less weight in batteries. My batteries and box probably weight about 1700 lbs. And my S10 is about as aerodynamic as a brick, it's the older style, very boxy.


Not to mention peutkert effects which Lithium batts lack. 

Anything over 150wh/mile with lithium is a pretty crappy design... but almost 3 times that? 

GM engineers are all on crack.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Technologic said:


> ...
> Anything over 150wh/mile with lithium is a pretty crappy design...


For the sake of us unlearned, please expound techno.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> For the sake of us unlearned, please expound techno.


Well even a 2000lb car with a common Cd around 0.29 will get something close to 150wh/mile with lithium batteries, but especially with regen as well. Reason being because LiFePO has such low internal resistance that you don't get amperage burn off during large current demanding sessions, also 16kwh of lithium is equitable to around 1/2 gallon of gas's potential energy.

Doing some rough math on that, since gas is burned at around 20-25% efficiency, you get about 6kwh out of a gallon of gas once it hits the road.

Now if you're using even the crappiest AC controller/motor known, you'd still have something like 70% of your battery capacity in the ground (though likely more like 85-90%).

So the Chevy Volt during it's electric phase is actually getting about 20mpg of equitable gas out of the system... maybe even less

If that's not horribly crappy I don't know what is... this is why I said a Monkey could design a better Chevy Volt.

It's beyond amazing that engineers designed a hybrid that gets 55mpg during engine power and 20mpg during electric power.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I have a vehicle that gets 20 MPG on a good day. Although it happens to be a 23 year old ford F250 (got 9mpg when I bought it).

400 wh/mile assumes that 100% of the battery energy is reaching the ground, which is not likely. I would count on 80%, which brings it down to 320wh/mile. You also have to consider what the low voltage cutoff of the chevy volt is. Does the 16kwh rating account for that? Knowing how the PR department typically operates, I would guess that 16kwh is the net 100% capacity of the battery and does not consider the low voltage cutoff.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

david85 said:


> I have a vehicle that gets 20 MPG on a good day. Although it happens to be a 23 year old ford F250 (got 9mpg when I bought it).
> 
> 400 wh/mile assumes that 100% of the battery energy is reaching the ground, which is not likely. I would count on 80%, which brings it down to 320wh/mile. You also have to consider what the low voltage cutoff of the chevy volt is. Does the 16kwh rating account for that? Knowing how the PR department typically operates, I would guess that 16kwh is the net 100% capacity of the battery and does not consider the low voltage cutoff.


It's still a horrible design... the Mitsubishi EV gets 80miles of range off the same 16kwh... double... and the damn car weighs almost 2000 lbs and seats 4.

I was actually taking into account the inefficiency of the motor/controller as well


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

The truth is the volt has changed so much since the original design that its really hard to take any of these numbers seriously. The original (as in more aerodynamic in reverse) concept was also rated at 40 miles per charge and 60 MPG even though it would have taken more energy to push its even worse aerodynamics down the road.

Its all vaporware until some one actually buys one of them and sees for himself what it can do. Care to get on a waiting list? ROFLMAO


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I can't wait to get a li pack in my truck. It's pretty awesome even with the ton of lead when it's first driven after charging. However I could only imagine what it would do with LI batteries that don't sag to 130V from 150 when hammering it. 

I've got a 1700lb 33kw lead pack now, not considering peukert and internal resistance. My current weight is 4100lbs. Replacing it with a 16kw LI pack, what would that save in weight and any idea what the range may increase % wise due to the loss of lead and internal resistance??? I really want to go lithium!


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> I can't wait to get a li pack in my truck. It's pretty awesome even with the ton of lead when it's first driven after charging. However I could only imagine what it would do with LI batteries that don't sag to 130V from 150 when hammering it.
> 
> I've got a 1700lb 33kw lead pack now, not considering peukert and internal resistance. My current weight is 4100lbs. Replacing it with a 16kw LI pack, what would that save in weight and any idea what the range may increase % wise due to the loss of lead and internal resistance??? I really want to go lithium!


anywhere between 50%-70% range increase if I had to guess off that info.


----------



## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

I calculated my weight differential using 3kg (6.6 lbs.) Lifepo4 batteries as compared to my lead pack. My lead pack weighs 945 lbs. 60 of the Lifepo4's weigh 396 lbs. ( I would create 30 parallel strings) 
The drop in weigh is 549 lbs or 58% !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------

