# Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

The horn would be a good idea as long as I remained nearby. However, I went
for a walk for an hour covering a couple miles or so. In that case all it
would do is piss off everyone in the RV park, and maybe cause the owner to
revoke my permission to charge. In general, I had planned to leave the car
charging at some point like this while I go for a bike ride, a walk, or eat
breakfast or lunch at a place that may be a mile or more from the charging
point. I have about 75 mile range at about 50 mph, but I could extend it
quit a bit this way, depending on how far I can go and still find a charging
point. Now I will be hesitant to try it unless I charge where I can make it
home if something like this happens, so within 35 - 40 miles of home - and I
may just read a book and keep an eye on it. It isn't clear to me how you
would implement remote monitoring. Of course if your charger dies, as in
this case, it doesn't help you much.

I asked Rich about upgrading to the PFC40 rectifier board, and also how much
it would cost to rework the PFC30 to a PFC40. He didn't answer the first
question (not possible maybe?), and said the second would be too expensive
to be worth it. Darn, I could have charged at 40A and gotten 24-25 miles per
hour charge (spec is 0.3C or 54A for my cells). 
-- 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

Chuck,

You could get a computer-based BMonS (that's a Battery Monitoring 
System as opposed to BManS or BMMS which monitors AND manages) or at 
least one which has an RS232 or similar output and then use a mobile 
(cell phone) dongle to give it web access and then use TeamViewer (or 
any other remote access app) on your iPhone to view the EV computer - 
and the BMonS - remotely. It would obviously work with wifi too as 
long as you were in range such when your at home or work. If that's 
too much, you could get your EV computer to ping you sms's every 20 
mins or whatever or, better still (or as well as) send it a special 
coded sms and it'll send a status report one back - like on my EV...

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk





> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> 
> > I really haven't seen much discussion on the List (or elsewhere) as to
> > how to monitor the charging status remotely. In this case, it sounds
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

Chuck,

... forgot to add... of course Jack would have us abbreviate all these 
acronyms to just 'BS'... 

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk





> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> 
> > I really haven't seen much discussion on the List (or elsewhere) as to
> > how to monitor the charging status remotely. In this case, it sounds
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

In case a "catastrophic" event happens like your
charger conking out instead of finishing charging,
if you can detect the situation (pack voltage
returns to a level below charging or finish charge)
then you can use a cheap cell phone and a contact
on the dial button to kick it into transmit mode
and there are several phones that will automatically
dial (either a programmed or the last dialed number)
when engaging the dial button 1 or 2 times.

Now you just need to keep the phone and SIM charged up...

(how to create 2 problems by solving one question ;-)

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:31 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re:
Manzanita failure)

I really haven't seen much discussion on the List (or elsewhere) as to
how to monitor the charging status remotely. In this case, it sounds
like tomw dropped 1.5 hrs of charging time. He came back to his EV
after an extended time away, expecting it to have a good charge, and he
came back to silence, no charge, and a problem.

That brings back memories. In July 1996 on a Sat., my first item of the
day was to attend the EBEAA meeting over at the Alameda Naval Air
Station, some 26 miles distant over in East Bay from my home. We could
always obtain charging over at the East Bay meetings, but with just 120V
K&W BC-20 charging, you needed to get on the juice and stay on it for
quite some time. I hooked up to the AC distribution box with 120V
outlets sourcing from a 240V outlet. Went in to the 10AM EBEAA meeting,
expecting my car to have enough juice to comfortably roll back up the
freeway towards home. I had a 12-noon windsurfing engagement at the
Berkeley Marina with a beautiful Thai co-worker who had invited me for
some splash time. I planned on leaving the EBEAA meeting somewhat early
to get to the Marina on time ;^>.

The meeting essentials done with, I walked out to the car. It should've
still been charging away, but silence. Yuck! That sinking feeling of
little or no juice in the batteries, and having to drive some
significant miles on freeways and high interchanges on the bottom half
of my pack. Ain't no way I was going to make it home without some
watchin'-moss-grow-on-a-tree 120V charge time.

I made it to the Marina on time after getting lost in Alameda housing,
now down to the bottom quarter of the pack. Starting to feel a little
soft under the pedal. It turned out that my co-splashee didn't show up
till about a half hour after noon, and no surfboards were available for
about another half hour because of a class. So I put my time to use to
track down an outlet for charging. I obtained permission after some
hunting around to charge off a little 120V outlet with Coke machine in
tandem. The charger got turned down significantly. I had no way to
monitor charging progress for the several hours I was away splashing
(yes, my first time windsurfing).

I had over 20 miles to get home at this point, including a major grade
westbound (read headwind) over the San Rafael - Richmond Br. I figured
I was going to be using a fellow EV'ers charging outlet up the road for
a few hours. Fortunately, that worked in well for some further time at
the nearby Mexican restaurant with my co-worker.

I made it home, but all the anxiety/time with the cords, circuit
breakers, and hunting around for outlets could've been reduced or
eliminated if I had had a means of monitoring the charging outlet while
in the EV meeting. While we didn't have iPhones or Droids back then, a
monitoring app or a keychain micro app sure would've been nice. Circuit
breaker trips screwed me up other times. It's one of the reasons the EV
stays close to home these days, along with nearly zip charging
infrastructure and acquiring a gas car. What little I hear about remote
monitoring maybe means that I'll be writing that app (which I'm
certainly looking forward to doing)...



> tomw wrote:
> > I charged at an RV park for the first time yesterday. I charged for
> > about 10 minutes just to test it out. I charged there again today,
> > planning to fully charge to extend my range. I plugged into a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for responding to the post.

Ok, TeamViewer or the like might be the ticket and might justify getting 
a iPhone or Droid at some point. I had figured it was going to be wifi 
(with range limitation) or cellphone (probably better, since if you're 
charging and going someplace away from the car, you're almost certainly 
covered by a cell network; if you leave your car somewhere to charge and 
go home, you can still track your charging situation remotely).

Are those cell phone dongles pricy? More to investigate!

It would certainly up the comfort level to have this kind of setup, and 
cut the urge to go check the car.

As for the charger dying, that is a weakness of EVs. Gas cars wouldn't 
have that problem. Off-board chargers, such as the GM EV1 MagnaCharger 
setup, would also be more like a gas car. If your on-board charger 
dies, well you're kinda screwed... Backup cheapo variac, as I have 
thought about, well that's kinda heavy and is more to fuss with. I've 
never had a charger die in the field, knock on wood. I've had two die 
at home (where I've done most of my charging, all of it these days). 
K&W BC-20 and Zivan K2: each blew a rectifier. Simple repair for 
sending it into a shop, a gotch'a show-stopper in the field.

Chuck

Martin WINLOW wrote:
> Chuck,
> 
> You could get a computer-based BMonS (that's a Battery Monitoring 
> System as opposed to BManS or BMMS which monitors AND manages) or at 
> least one which has an RS232 or similar output and then use a mobile 
> (cell phone) dongle to give it web access and then use TeamViewer (or 
> any other remote access app) on your iPhone to view the EV computer - 
> and the BMonS - remotely. It would obviously work with wifi too as 
> long as you were in range such when your at home or work. If that's 
> too much, you could get your EV computer to ping you sms's every 20 
> mins or whatever or, better still (or as well as) send it a special 
> coded sms and it'll send a status report one back - like on my EV...
> 
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> Herts, UK
> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
> www.winlow.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
>


> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> >
> >> I really haven't seen much discussion on the List (or elsewhere) as to
> >> how to monitor the charging status remotely. In this case, it sounds
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

"Would http://www.serialio.com/products/SerialMagic/use/Multimeter_BT_AAA.php
be something like you were thinking of?"

That would work for me. The pack voltage increases around a couple volts
when charging at 30A, and I know it gets to about 124V at around 95% charge. 
So I could just note the voltage before I turn on the charger, and after I
turn up the charge current. Then if the voltage drops below the latter
level at any time I would know the charger has cut back current or shut off.
Would still need to charge within return distance of home, unless I make
something like a bad boy charger as backup. The former would permit me to
extend my round-trip range to around 110 miles or more depending on driving
speed.

I received the charger back from Manzanita yesterday. The packing slip said
the input rectifier board was replaced. No bill enclosed, so apparently no
charge for the repair and return shipping! Maybe because it is a bit less
than 1 year old. I shipped it out Monday morning and got it back on Thursday
afternoon.
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Manzanita-failure-tp2535870p2543949.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

> "Would http://www.serialio.com/products/SerialMagic/use/Multimeter_BT_AAA.php
> be something like you were thinking of?"

It's hard to me to figure out exactly how this would work. Could someone 
explain?

1. It appears to read the serial data from a particular meter
(Protek 506). I happened to have one of these meters; it worked
for a year and died. As I recall, it sent encoded data (its LCD
segments, rather than ASCII values). I had to run a Windows
program on my PC to read its data.

2. I assume their device translates RS-232 data into Bluetooth RF
data, which needs to be received by some device with Bluetooth.
Won't most Bluetooth devices ignore it, because it's not a
headset or other expected device?

3. They show a too-small-to-read screen on a high-end mobile phone
that I guess is supposed to be telling you what the meter reads.
Where does the software come from that translates the meter's
segments into sensible readings on the phone?

4. The Protek meter I had was strictly battery operated (no AC
adapter option). It also automatically shut itself off after
15 minutes of use, with no option to keep it on. Their Bluetooth
device is also battery operated, and probably can't operate for
very long. How would you get around that?

5. What is this whole affair going to cost? It looks like a number
of over-$100-each black boxes are needed.
-- 
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377	| There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net	| That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*



> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> "Would http://www.serialio.com/products/SerialMagic/use/Multimeter_BT_AAA.php
> >> be something like you were thinking of?"
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*



> Rick Beebe wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >>> "Would http://www.serialio.com/products/SerialMagic/use/Multimeter_BT_AAA.php
> >>> be something like you were thinking of?"
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

Let me try to make this really simple:
- Take a run-of-the-mill old cellphone with prepaid SIM, so it
will cost you one call per charge cycle, less than $2 per week.
- See that your cell phone is old enough that you can solder
two leads on the call button
- Check the phone that it can automatically dial a number when
the call button is pushed
- Connect the two leads to a relay via a switch
- activate the relay with a comparator (use an extra contact
to light a LED to show when the comparator activates the relay)
- tune the comparator with a potmeter to activate if the 
pack voltage drops lower than the level at which you left the vehicle
charging
- close the switch so that the cellphone will dial your number
when the pack voltage drops.
- the components at the input of the comparator do not need to be
more than a zener diode as voltage reference (with R and C)
and a pack voltage prescaler and potmeter with a C against noise.
- When the call is sent, you will recognise the phone number on
your cell, so there is no need for a message. When you have no
voicemail and you do not take the call, it may even be 
completely free...

Hope this gives some ideas to do it on a budget and simple to
understand circuits.
Make sure you can disconnect the cell phone to recharge it and
to refill its SIM with additional call minutes.

NOTE that a cell phone does not work always and needs to be able to
reach the cell tower, so do not hide it under the hood in a metal box!

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 9:21 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re:
Manzanita failure)

> "Would 
> http://www.serialio.com/products/SerialMagic/use/Multimeter_BT_AAA.php
> be something like you were thinking of?"

It's hard to me to figure out exactly how this would work. Could someone
explain?

1. It appears to read the serial data from a particular meter
(Protek 506). I happened to have one of these meters; it worked
for a year and died. As I recall, it sent encoded data (its LCD
segments, rather than ASCII values). I had to run a Windows
program on my PC to read its data.

2. I assume their device translates RS-232 data into Bluetooth RF
data, which needs to be received by some device with Bluetooth.
Won't most Bluetooth devices ignore it, because it's not a
headset or other expected device?

3. They show a too-small-to-read screen on a high-end mobile phone
that I guess is supposed to be telling you what the meter reads.
Where does the software come from that translates the meter's
segments into sensible readings on the phone?

4. The Protek meter I had was strictly battery operated (no AC
adapter option). It also automatically shut itself off after
15 minutes of use, with no option to keep it on. Their Bluetooth
device is also battery operated, and probably can't operate for
very long. How would you get around that?

5. What is this whole affair going to cost? It looks like a number
of over-$100-each black boxes are needed.
-- 
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377	| There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net	| That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*



> Lee wrote:
> > This setup costs you nothing for monthly cellphone fees.
> 
> Correct and depending on the quality and power of the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

I posted: "No bill enclosed, so apparently no charge for the repair and
return shipping!"

Well, they are just slow on invoicing. I received a bill for $111.19 today. 
Also shipped the charger back again today. I charged with it twice after I
received it back. Then I turned on the switch and nothing happened. No
lights, no fan, nothing. Manzanita said it sounded like the power supply,
and had me check the fuse. It was ok. I asked them to just send be a power
supply since it is cheaper than shipping the charger back and forth, but
Rich wanted the charger sent back.
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Manzanita-failure-tp2535870p2549571.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

"Also shipped the charger back again today. I charged with it twice after I
received it back. Then I turned on the switch and nothing happened. No
lights, no fan, nothing."
Embarrassing to report that it was just the breaker on the charger. Rich
said only one side had tripped, so it had to be forced down rather hard to
reset it. I had noticed it seemed higher than normal, but wasn't certain,
so didn't want to push too hard for fear of breaking it. The force I felt I
normally apply to a tripped breaker didn't do it. Rich just forced it down
with the thought that he would fix it or break it and replace it. Don't
know why only one side tripped.
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Manzanita-failure-tp2535870p2553556.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: Manzanita failure)*

Hello Tom,

Normally when a 2 pole breaker trips, one line sees the fault before the 
other line does. The problem with a tie handle to make two single pole 
breakers into a 2 pole, that one breaker will trip while the other one is 
still on.

It is best to use a common trip 2 pole breaker which the handle is one solid 
unit.

To reset a trip breaker, you first turn it on and than turn it off. In your 
charger, make sure your current knob is turn all the way down or unplug the 
AC line.

Sometimes when the overload trips inside the breaker, the handle will not 
move. I find that when a breaker usage or age, will cause this effect.

I do not know what the interrupting fault rating of this breaker is, but is 
best when install a series of feeder breakers, is to have the first one off 
the main panel to have the highest interrupting rating and the next one at a 
lower rating.

For example, the main breaker in a circuit breaker panel may have a 65,000 
amp interrupting rating, the branch breaker should then be a 22,500 amp 
interrupting rating and the equipment should be 10,000 amp interrupting 
rating. The branch breaker and equipment breaker can have the same overload 
rating.

Another way to do this, is have the first breaker in the panel at a higher 
amp rating like a 50 amp with No. 6 AWG wire to the main AC input plug, then 
a 40 amp chassis mount breaker with No. 8 AWG wire in the EV which goes to a 
30 amp breaker in the charger.

Did you know in a home or other type of installation, if a breaker goes bad, 
you can replace it free at a electrical supply house that handle that brand. 
If a electrical company replaces a breaker, there should only be labor 
charge.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tomw" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Got Juice? - ie., is the charger charging? (WAS: Re: 
Manzanita failure)


>
> "Also shipped the charger back again today. I charged with it twice after 
> I
> received it back. Then I turned on the switch and nothing happened. No
> lights, no fan, nothing."
> Embarrassing to report that it was just the breaker on the charger. Rich
> said only one side had tripped, so it had to be forced down rather hard to
> reset it. I had noticed it seemed higher than normal, but wasn't certain,
> so didn't want to push too hard for fear of breaking it. The force I felt 
> I
> normally apply to a tripped breaker didn't do it. Rich just forced it 
> down
> with the thought that he would fix it or break it and replace it. Don't
> know why only one side tripped.
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Manzanita-failure-tp2535870p2553556.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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> 

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