# Mercedes 190 2.3-16 1987



## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Hey there. I am real new here and just got this idea for a project of mine. 
I bought a 190e Cosworth last summer as a resto project. 








it needs a lot of work and new paint and body parts. It only has 98000 km and comes from Japan! It has no rust even under the car. 

The idea would be to do a full ev convertion and resell the engine and transmission(auto).
It would need to have at least 200km of autonomy (more would be ideal)
It has to be rwd. 
Don’t have any power goals here but something equivalent to the actual 200hp would be a baseline. 

Is this possible? I have no idea!!
And what kind of money are we talking about?
Maybe I could buy used some parts from a wrecked car? 


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Scoobydoo666 said:


> The idea would be to do a full ev convertion and resell the engine and transmission(auto).
> It would need to have at least 200km of autonomy (more would be ideal)
> It has to be rwd.
> Don’t have any power goals here but something equivalent to the actual 200hp would be a baseline.


I think this project is crying out for a Tesla based solution... take a look at Damien's BMW 8 Series conversion (here) and use the open source controllers for the motor (here), charger (here) and BMS (here) to keep the cost down 

With the motor in the back (~600HP) and batteries in the front (~500km) this would be one hell of a conversion 



Scoobydoo666 said:


> Maybe I could buy used some parts from a wrecked car?


Have a look for a wrecked Tesla that will give you everything that you need... remember you can make good money selling the parts you don't need, so sometimes it's better to avoid a total wreck. I suspect you'll get the best prices in the US rather than Canada.


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> I think this project is crying out for a Tesla based solution... take a look at Damien's BMW 8 Series conversion (here) and use the open source controllers for the motor (here), charger (here) and BMS (here) to keep the cost down
> 
> With the motor in the back (~600HP) and batteries in the front (~500km) this would be one hell of a conversion
> 
> Have a look for a wrecked Tesla that will give you everything that you need... remember you can make good money selling the parts you don't need, so sometimes it's better to avoid a total wreck. I suspect you'll get the best prices in the US rather than Canada.




Woah!!! I like those numbers so far!!!
I have been repairing totaled car for a while but never did an engine conversion yet. Only an auto to manual swap in a Subaru. I will look at your links for sure. Thanks!


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

It seems bizarre to take an excellent condition car with a rare engine and convert it to an EV. The more obvious solution would be to just sell it and buy a 190 with an ordinary engine... but of course any 1987 car without rust is hard to find.



Kevin Sharpe said:


> I think this project is crying out for a Tesla based solution...


I agree... but before getting in too far, I suggest confirming that the Tesla drive unit will fit between the parts of the 190's multilink rear suspension. This is not the traditional semi-trailing arm suspension of earlier Mercedes and most of the conversions using Tesla drive units.

Quebec is one of the better places in Canada to be looking for salvage Tesla parts, as it is one of only three provinces which subsidize EV purchases and thus has more EVs than elsewhere.


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

brian_ said:


> It seems bizarre to take an excellent condition car with a rare engine and convert it to an EV. The more obvious solution would be to just sell it and buy a 190 with an ordinary engine... but of course any 1987 car without rust is hard to find.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes There is a lot going on in the back with multi link. 
Yes it is a rare engine but it is auto and nit really powerfull. Plus I can have some money for it since it is really good. I also have another 190e, not 16v, but undercarriage is rusted even at 92000 km. Here in Quebec, Canada, the winter salt they put ruin our cars...
So even a 2 year old car not rustproofed is already rusted on the subframe, and many underside parts.
I will look at other builds to see where to put the motor and parts. 


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Why not bolt a motor to the actual transmission?


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Scoobydoo666 said:


> Why not bolt a motor to the actual transmission?


Why carry around all that weight that you don't need in a modern EV?


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Why carry around all that weight that you don't need in a modern EV?



I would prefer that yes!!
It just seems it's gonna be a bid of a squeeze with the rear subframe and multilink suspension.

















Any inputs?? Directions, ideas??


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

What I see is cutting the subframe and fabricating a new side section with shortened upper arms. Doable. 


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Scoobydoo666 said:


> Any inputs?? Directions, ideas??


Have a play with the Tesla 'large' drive unit dimensions (here) and let us know how it looks 

If not, you could consider the 'small' drive unit and make do with ~300HP peak


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> Have a play with the Tesla 'large' drive unit dimensions (here) and let us know how it looks
> 
> If not, you could consider the 'small' drive unit and make do with ~300HP peak




Right. That was my next question. Why not a smaller drive. I will put it in the air tomorrow and check with the tape.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Scoobydoo666 said:


> What I see is cutting the subframe and fabricating a new side section with shortened upper arms. Doable.


To use any Tesla unit it would be necessary to reconstruct the subframe. If any arm is shortened the suspension geometry will change; fixing that would require changing the lengths and mounting positions of other arms.

With luck, the drive unit will fit with only subframe modification.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Scoobydoo666 said:


> What I see is cutting the subframe and fabricating a new side section with shortened upper arms. Doable.
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk


Yes doable - but be careful to make sure the suspension still works and does what it's meant to
Not trivial - but not too difficult


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Scoobydoo666 said:


> Right. That was my next question. Why not a smaller drive.


It's all a matter of performance... the 'large' drive unit can deliver twice the HP/Torque which might be important to you


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> It's all a matter of performance... the 'large' drive unit can deliver twice the HP/Torque which might be important to you




Well if I could do 300hp it would still be amazing. Any 16v with 300hp is really something. 


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
While the small Tesla unit will develop a lot of power 
I'm not that sure that it will allow you to use that much continuously - I would suspect 300 hp "Burst"
And a much lower number - maybe 60 hp continuous?

More than enough along with it's big brother for a Tesla - but it may not be enough on it's own to drive your Merc at a steady 80 mph

Or it may just be my megalomania that is saying "No fit the BIG one"


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

Duncan said:


> While the small Tesla unit will develop a lot of power
> I'm not that sure that it will allow you to use that much continuously - I would suspect 300 hp "Burst"
> And a much lower number - maybe 60 hp continuous?


I agree that the advertised power level is probably for some brief peak, but I don't know if that's problem for a Merc 190.

The larger motors (MG2) in Toyota hybrids and the motors in the pickup truck size of GM Two-Mode hybrid (familiar to members of this forum as the Remy HVH series) are good for over 50 kW (so over 70 hp) continuous power, with liquid cooling. The Leaf motor is rated at 80 kW (108 hp) continuous, again with liquid cooling. Even the small Tesla motor appears to be at least as large, physically, as these motors.


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

brian_ said:


> I agree that the advertised power level is probably for some brief peak, but I don't know if that's problem for a Merc 190.
> 
> 
> 
> The larger motors (MG2) in Toyota hybrids and the motors in the pickup truck size of GM Two-Mode hybrid (familiar to members of this forum as the Remy HVH series) are good for over 50 kW (so over 70 hp) continuous power, with liquid cooling. The Leaf motor is rated at 80 kW (108 hp) continuous, again with liquid cooling. Even the small Tesla motor appears to be at least as large, physically, as these motors.




The main question is what will fit with that complicated rear end. It’s not at all trailing arms like that old 8 series BMW. 


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

Duncan said:


> it may not be enough on it's own to drive your Merc at a steady 80 mph


In the Model S/X dual motor cars only the front 'small' motor is used at high speed 

With luck I'll have my VW Bus on the drag strip and driving across country this year... I doubt it will be super quick, but the results will give us some idea of what's really possible with the 'small' drive units


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## Scoobydoo666 (Jan 11, 2018)

Well after looking at the rear end of the car, the only way an electric motor would fit «*easily*» is in the engine bay. 
I guess I will not push the idea further. 


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