# Obama's one million EVs by 2015 prediction



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Predicting the future

Obama predicted 1000,000 - so we are at 300,000 + so far and still 11 months to go

He is not going to hit his million this year but maybe next year and almost certainly the year after

That article talked about Tesla sales reducing - didn't mention that that was because they made less as they took the factory off-line to upgrade the production line!


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

I think we should trade hostages to ISIL for NoBama. Everyone would be happy with that deal.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Sunking said:


> I think we should trade hostages to ISIL for NoBama. Everyone would be happy with that deal.


I think he is the most valuable to ISIL right where he is.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

So, on an electric car site, you are cheering that the American people are stupid and addicted to oil? Oil that has created ISIL?


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> So, on an electric car site, you are cheering that the American people are stupid and addicted to oil? Oil that has created ISIL?


I found an EV related article while I was surfing drudge and posted it over here in the news section. Many of us like to read EV related articles, regardless of whether it is good, bad, or indifferent.


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## ken will (Dec 19, 2009)

evmetro said:


> I found an EV related article while I was surfing drudge and posted it over here in the news section. Many of us like to read EV related articles, regardless of whether it is good, bad, or indifferent.


Maybe your intent was unbiased......
But it sure looks like the soul purpose of this thread and many of your replies is make President Obama look bad.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

ken will said:


> Maybe your intent was unbiased......
> But it sure looks like the soul purpose of this thread and many of your replies is make President Obama look bad.


You don't have to try to make NoBama look bad. He does a good job of it all by himself without anyone's help. His own party has even turned against him.


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

We'd be there if gas prices hadn't tanked. Damn Obama and these low gas prices!


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

ken will said:


> Maybe your intent was unbiased......
> But it sure looks like the soul purpose of this thread and many of your replies is make President Obama look bad.


It was unbiased, but I also like exposing Obama. Sunking has a pretty good point though, you don't really have to try very hard to make him look bad.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

It is pretty clear that you have an agenda and can't see the facts and blame the right people. Obama set a goal which was pretty bold back then but should have been reachable. It was up to the people and Automakers to reach it, not the government. The Automakers and the citizens are who failed.

The sad thing is that it is the same players that are in the movie "Who Killed The Electric Car" that helped prevent them from taking off. (Although I blame the automakers for not producing 'attractive' mass produced EVs, plug-in hybrids, and EV pickup trucks. Along with not selling them nationwide to anyone who can pay.)

There is also a lot of incorrect information being spewed about EVs by the climate change = hoax people on-line that doesn't help their image. If Tesla didn't exist to prove them all wrong, it would be even worse.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> It is pretty clear that you have an agenda and can't see the facts and blame the right people.


I do have agenda, and it is in fact conservative agenda. Although I am not as well versed on the rest of the world, I can see that the USA is deeply divided between the right and the left right now, and the division is getting wider every day. We resent each other more every day. In this particular thread, I assure you that I posted the EV related article just as I would any other EV related article that I come across. I do in fact like to stir the political pot, but I limit that kind of recreation to the chit chat area where it belongs. I understand your defensive statements, because you know that I like to poke and prod at the lefties, and I know that the lefties are on the losing side of the battle during these times. Caps, I really like you, your posts, and your builds, so perhaps I would have done better posting that article in the chit chat section, especially knowing that it is a bit politically charged. 



> Caps:
> It was up to the people and Automakers to reach it, not the government. The Automakers and the citizens are who failed.


I agree with a lot of that, but not all of it. In my personal opinion, I think they really fumbled the ball on EV charging. Consumers are very concerned about the limited range, the time it takes to charge, and where they can charge, so if there are doubts in consumers minds, they will either select a hybrid to satisfy their interest in EVs, or just buy another ICE. One huge problem that I see that will put off consumers is the lack of a charging inlet that matches the extension cords in their homes and garages. While the J plug is a fine inlet, consumers will see a it as a headache if it is the only way to charge their car. Until the J plug infrastructure is adequate, EVs need to be equipped with an additional inlet like the ones in the homes and garages of consumers. If a consumer sees that he can charge his car the way he planned to when he went shopping for an EV, the J plug can now be viewed as a value that will save his valuable time. I point my finger at the government and auto makers for this missing feature.
Charging stations are being installed with federal grants, and are being installed with only 30 amp service to save money. While this works ok for now, it will create a black eye for the EV industry in a few years when the demand for 90 amps comes into play and more money needs to be spent to update all those little 30 amp sites.

The concerns of consumers will over ride their ignorance, so they need to be sold on their concerns in addition to becoming educated on their range anxiety.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

evmetro said:


> Charging stations are being installed with federal grants, and are being installed with only 30 amp service to save money.


That has to stop. The issue is the Goberment is trying to pick winners. That has never worked and never will. The Market decides where to go, not government or activist.


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## ken will (Dec 19, 2009)

evmetro said:


> I can see that the USA is deeply divided between the right and the left right now, and the division is getting wider every day.
> 
> I do in fact like to stir the political pot,
> 
> I like to poke and prod at the lefties,


Gee! I wonder why....the USA is deeply divided between the right and the left right now, and the division is getting wider every day.

Could it be because of people like you?

Why do you like tearing America apart?


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Ken, I was doing what I could do to acknowledge Caps18's concerns and to be diplomatic about it on this part of the forum. I have respect for Caps18, and am not going to do any debating in this section of the forum for that reason. I love to spar about politics, and welcome anything that you want to throw my way if you will keep it contained to the few threads that we have in chit chat area. Many forum members don't have the stomach for recreational political debating, so I prefer to not clutter up other parts of this forum with this kind of stuff. Please join me in respecting our forum environment. If you want to call me four letter words or make me out to be a shitbag, I welcome it, but if we keep our bickering contained to those few chit chat threads, other members who don't enjoy this stuff already know to not read those few threads.

My apologies to the folks that don't enjoy political bickering. I should not have posted this potential can of worms in the news section. 

.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

If you critiqued Obama for not implementing the right plan or policy to get 1 million electric cars on the road, I wouldn't have disagreed with you. McCain had the start of a good idea back in 2008 instead of trying to prop up battery makers who wouldn't sell batteries to anybody except OEMs that didn't make EVs that people wanted. http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=71597
Give $100 million to the automaker who produces the first 300 mile EV for sale at a certain price, along with up to $100 million to the company in discounts to be used to reduce the price of the first 10,000 cars or something. Reduce the regulations for some testing and design constraints for 4 wheel EV cars that Aptera didn't want to deal with (No 3 wheel car will succeed in the US, EV or not). Then help streamline and approve charging stations along the major highways and national park parking lots (Lots of EV parking without chargers at Mammoth Cave National Park in Kentucky, but it is too far from TN for Leafs to get there and back without finding a charger someplace).

If you would have asked where the Democrats and their advocacy groups are at helping to pass laws and relax regulations on electric vehicles to encourage them, I wouldn't have disagreed with you. Or why aren't Democrats buying more EV's/plug-in's or at least backing them more, I don't know? Why aren't they saying that every time you fill up, you are giving money to the opposition... So even if the environment isn't your main issue, it affects every other issue too? And I'm pissed that Washington and Oregon (not really right-wing states) want to tax EVs through GPS or $100/year when my gas car pays $25/year in gas taxes. Now, if they quadrupled the gas tax, I wouldn't have a problem paying the $100, but it seems like they wanted to punish people who drive EVs the way they went about it, and way too soon. Maybe once 5%-10% of the vehicles in a state are electric, then the tax discussion can start.

http://gas2.org/2015/02/06/plug-car-sales-rise-27-2014-118000/
If plug-in cars, motorcycles, and home conversions are included in the number, it might be closer to 33%. Once the Model 3, Chevy 200-mile car, EV pickup truck, and a sporty Nissan come out, that million vehicle number should be obtainable.



> The Market decides where to go, not government or activist.


But, the free market isn't perfect and needs to be corrected and controlled to an extent. There are building codes for a reason, and you won't be able to get approval to build a house today with a 30 Amp panel. There are DOT rules to prevent companies from taking shortcuts and injuring people. The federal government mandates how efficient new cars need to be to push automakers to develop better powertrains and improve the air.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think evmetro purposely posted a link to a right-wing ("Right news, Right now") publication, as well as a snide reference to Obama, as baiting another political debate for his "conservative" agenda, which seems primarily to widen and deepen the gap between liberals and moderates on one side, and him and his ilk on the other. Yes, their agenda has been publicly declared to be making Obama look bad.

It's also ironic that he whines about the government not doing enough while at the same time wants to greatly reduce the role of government and letting the market (Capitalism) have free reign. 

Sheesh!


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Or, we could simply accept the fact that no one's gonna buy these things in real numbers until the price comes down - and that there is nothing government can do to materially change that time line.

Thus, any gubmint' "policy" about EVs is costly hot air.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I just came across this article that seems related to the 1 million EVs goal.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/21/record-numbers-of-drivers-trading-in-electric-cars-for-suvs/





.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Just more proof that there is demand for a product that automakers aren't making. And people's life situations change. The full cost of oil and gas isn't being paid by the vehicle buyers either which is a big problem.

But, this is also a right-wing media plot where they try and find any statistic that supports their version of reality and then repeat it over and over. Or that if one EV driver traded in for a SUV two years ago an now two did last year, it is a "100% increase in the number of EV drivers switching to SUVs". And it gets repeated and brought up until a few influencial people believe it and make policy decisions or get the general population to think the way they want them to.

The real trend is that EV's are getting better, more renewable power is running them, and the prices are dropping. And if people are saying they are too expensive and then buying $40,000 SUV's and big trucks they are just irrational.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> The real trend is that EV's are getting better, more renewable power is running them, and the prices are dropping.


I have to agree with you on this. The 1 million EV goal may not be on schedule, but I have a feeling that EVs will continue to evolve and multiply. My own conversions continue to get more advanced, and the products that are available for conversions continues to improve as well. The one EVs are getting more range, and faster chargers, and good looking ones are on the horizon...


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

evmetro said:


> I just came across this article that seems related to the 1 million EVs goal.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/21/record-numbers-of-drivers-trading-in-electric-cars-for-suvs/
> .


The relevant tidbit:

"_Only 45% of EV and Hybrid trade-ins went towards another alternative fuel vehicle._"

On the flip side of that unhappy news however, is the fact that that is not that unusual for "Innovators" to switch to something else after they try new tech. Once the batteries improve the loyalty will go up.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> Yes, their agenda has been publicly declared to be making Obama look bad.


Obama does not need any help with that, he does a fantastic job of doing that all on his own.


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## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

I LOVE the spicy meat-a-ball political back and forth. That's actually my favorite part of this forum. Just my 2 cents. If things (for the whole earth) are going to really change for the better environmentally speaking, the solution HAS to be something that people would want to do without being forced to by the government. Why? Because if everyone in the U.S. suddenly drove an EV, it would be a drop in the bucket. India has 1.25 billion people, and China has 1.35 billion. And they aren't going to make major decisions that could slow their economic growth. But if we can build it cheaper and better, they will adopt it.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

evmetro said:


> It was unbiased, but I also like exposing Obama. Sunking has a pretty good point though, you don't really have to try very hard to make him look bad.


Or the previous guy either, 2 duds in a row.



evmetro said:


> I just came across this article that seems related to the 1 million EVs goal.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/21/record-numbers-of-drivers-trading-in-electric-cars-for-suvs/
> 
> .


Article might as well read "Record numbers of Mercans are retarded socially and mentally. Lacking the mental capacity to comprehand that gas prices are fungible and also inherently unstable, thus decisions made today may negatively affect them in the future."


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

MPaulHolmes said:


> India has 1.25 billion people, and China has 1.35 billion. And they aren't going to make major decisions that could slow their economic growth. But if we can build it cheaper and better, they will adopt it.


Well your numbers are a bit low but still hits the point no one want to admit or face. No country can build it better or cheaper than China or India because they do not have to put up with an Employment Prevention Agency, Obstruct Success & Hinder Agency, Labor Unions, or high corporate taxes. No obstructionist or advocate minority groups that say you cannot build or do that here. Those countries are only 10% or less developed. They have not even got started yet. Only way to stop them.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Its funny that the likes of Germany can manage to build (and export) so much when their equivalents of 

_"Employment Prevention Agency, Obstruct Success & Hinder Agency, Labor Unions, or high corporate taxes."_

Are so much more powerful and higher (taxes actually paid) than the American ones


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Duncan said:


> Its funny that the likes of Germany can manage to build (and export) so much when their equivalents of
> 
> _"Employment Prevention Agency, Obstruct Success & Hinder Agency, Labor Unions, or high corporate taxes."_
> 
> Are so much more powerful and higher (taxes actually paid) than the American ones


If you mean "funny" as in sad, I'd agree. As I posted previously their system does not burden them as much as ours - yet their per-capita GDP is still lower than ours.

What is truly amazing is how ours has not yet fallen further - but in fact it really has because they are including nearly a trillion dollars per year of debt as "GDP.'


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Sunking said:


> Well your numbers are a bit low but still hits the point no one want to admit or face. No country can build it better or cheaper than China or India because they do not have to put up with an Employment Prevention Agency, Obstruct Success & Hinder Agency, Labor Unions, or high corporate taxes. No obstructionist or advocate minority groups that say you cannot build or do that here. Those countries are only 10% or less developed. They have not even got started yet. Only way to stop them.


I have been trying to not get involved politically on this thread, but I suppose the topic is hopelessly political. Sunking, you made me smile and chuckle here. Maybe what we need to do to get on top of things is send a bunch of American liberals over to some of these other less encumbered countries, and have them multiply and infiltrate their countries. If we can burden these other countries with American liberalism, then we would have a level playing field.

Here is what we could do to those other countries:



evmetro said:


> We should be aware of our animal friends. Here is a very sad story about a bear... Everybody should heed the warnings not to feed wildlife because they become dependent and don't forage for themselves any longer. It is such a tragedy to see what has been done to our country's wildlife. The photo below captures a disturbing trend that is beginning to affect U.S. wildlife.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I always find it amazing that with two political parties 
one of which has historically outperformed the other in all economic measures from share prices to unemployment
The same party that performs worse with the economy has started several "wars of choice" 
And was "Asleep at the switch" in the worst attack on the American homeland

And people like Evmetro - who otherwise appears quite competent and sane -
Continue to represent the party/affiliation that has done best as "incompetent moochers"


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Duncan said:


> I always find it amazing that with two political parties
> one of which has historically outperformed the other in all economic measures from share prices to unemployment
> The same party that performs worse with the economy has started several "wars of choice"
> And was "Asleep at the switch" in the worst attack on the American homeland
> ...


This looks like fun to mess with, but I have already cluttered up this thread too much with recreational political debate. You win.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Duncan said:


> I always find it amazing that with two political parties
> one of which has historically outperformed the other in all economic measures from share prices to unemployment
> The same party that performs worse with the economy has started several "wars of choice"
> And was "Asleep at the switch" in the worst attack on the American homeland
> ...


You got it all right except the part about which party has been responsible for our decline. Bush II was a Liberal, he just ran on the R platform.

But then, re-writing the past is what you are always trying to do.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

*Bush II was a Liberal, he just ran on the R platform.

But then, re-writing the past is what you are always trying to do.

*Do you not see the total irony in those two statements!


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Duncan said:


> *Bush II was a Liberal, he just ran on the R platform.
> 
> But then, re-writing the past is what you are always trying to do.
> 
> *Do you not see the total irony in those two statements!


Not at all. 

The one asleep at the switch was Clinton, who could have gotten Bin Laden after he organized the FIRST attack on the towers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-clinton-hours-911-attacks-killed-osama-bin/story?id=24801422

Bush was only a Liberal in his spending habits.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

The lies sprinkled with bullshit is over here now?

Phantom, I'm gonna call you out on something here (out of a million things).

You haven't done shit EV wise on this board. Other people make this board popular, and you just bitch and whine constantly, looking at one tiny slice of a huge problem and calling yourself principled with narrow minded agenda.

You are a leach.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

*Bush was only a Liberal in his spending habits.*

No his two terms line up with all of the other Republicans
Which actually means he spent MORE than the Democrats!

Republicans have historically spent MORE than Democrats and increased the deficit faster
But by using the "Big Lie" technique have managed to convince a lot of (most) of the American people of the exact opposite


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Duncan said:


> *Bush was only a Liberal in his spending habits.*
> 
> No his two terms line up with all of the other Republicans
> Which actually means he spent MORE than the Democrats!
> ...


Duncan, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you.

Using annualized debt as a measure of a President's spending is just one more of your seemingly unlimited store of falsehoods. The Deficit under Clinton was lower only because of the actions of Reagan to restore the economy in the wake of the Carter debacle.

Reagan's  requested spending was temporary. The Trojan horse he accepted at the demand of the Left was permanent. War spending ends; entitlement spending goes on forever - or at least until some Congress grows a set of stones and cuts back the monster. Calling those Entitlement programs "his" because he was bi-partisan is like calling Ayn Rand a liberal.

Bush? The same thing - he made a deal with the Left to fund his war. I think he should have sent nukes and just been done with the whole country - that way he wouldn't have to have bargained with parasites who were like-minded with yourself.

In any event, the Debt lies entirely at the feet of the Democrats starting with President Woodrow Wilson. Every single entitlement program at the Federal level is entirely the result of his handiwork. Without the 16th Amendment ending Apportionment; the 17th Amendment emasculating the States' ability to reign in spending; and the Federal Reserve lapdog to global theft we wouldn't be having this conversation.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

dcb said:


> The lies sprinkled with bullshit is over here now?
> 
> Phantom, I'm gonna call you out on something here (out of a million things).


Oh, do tell... More paranoia that Christians are going to come force you to Confession?



> You haven't done shit EV wise on this board.


Speaking of bullshirt, I've taken the liberty of reviewing your posts - and apart from bashing Christians and those who are foolish enough to believe in perpetual motion, I don't see that you've contributed any more than I have to the EV portion of the forum. If anything, I have promoted hope by demonstrating that we will not all die of AGW because EVs are coming faster than the earth is warming. You, on the other hand, don't seem to have any message other than "screw you" to everyone you speak to. You are an angry person with no joy in your soul. I will pray for you... 

As for my deferred desire to build an EV, that lies squarely at the heart of my distaste for the Liberals who destroyed our economy in '08. I was fortunate in that I retained work, but had to take a 50% cut and stomach tax increases each year since then. Pay is now coming back up but the tax increases keep on coming thanks to the party of slavery, and so I have to put everything I can into my 401k in hopes that sanity will return by the time I retire in a few years.

I still plan to convert a vehicle someday, but it is liable to be my lawn tractor instead of a car.



> Other people make this board popular, and you just bitch and whine constantly, looking at one tiny slice of a huge problem and calling yourself principled with narrow minded agenda.


This is the Chit Chat section, and is open to multiple topics of highly contested opinion. So, quit bitching and whining. If you don't like it, don't read it.



> You are a leach.


Actually, I think you are complaining because I despise leaches. Hit dawg yelps, and all that...


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

you are a lying piece of crap, and a leach, plain and simple. you have zero room to complain. 4000 politicallly motivated whining posts is all you are good for. 

you are worse than anyone you have ever complained about.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

dcb said:


> you are a lying piece of crap, and a leach, plain and simple. you have zero room to complain. 4000 politicallly motivated whining posts is all you are good for.
> 
> you are worse than anyone you have ever complained about.


My, my, aren't you a cheerful kinda guy. It sure is nice to have happy people like you around here to make this place a cheerful environment.

Here is some atheist humor for you.

Q: What is so ironic about Atheists?
A: They’re always talking about God. 

Q: Did you hear about the the evangelical atheist?
A: She went door to door with a book full of blank pages. 

Q: How does an Atheist girl have her hair done?
A: In big bangs!


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

evmetro said:


> A: They’re always talking about God.


Funny, because you and the worlds loudest parasite here are the first ones to bring it up in this thread...


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

dcb isn't wrong though.



Sunking said:


> China or India ... Those countries are only 10% or less developed. They have not even got started yet. Only way to stop them.


Yes this is a big issue that the international community is trying to address. But if it hadn't been for the right wing management and investors in the 80s & 90s that pushed outsourcing in order to attack unions, China would still be riding bicycles and India would be using a lot more trains. They may have "westernized" a little, but it is debatable if that has come at too high of cost to the health of the people there and to the environment.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

dcb said:


> Funny, because you and the worlds loudest parasite here are the first ones to bring it up in this thread...


Sometimes when I read your posts, I have to wonder if happiness is a blessing.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

"ignorance is bliss" I believe is the phrase you are looking for.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

dcb said:


> "ignorance is bliss" I believe is the phrase you are looking for.


Oh, c'mon.. you aren't really THAT ignorant. Give yourself a little credit.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Ah, I see this is turning into the next political bickering thread that will go 90+ pages and change the mind of nobody involved. Time to unsubscribe.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Hopefully it may stay on track about EV sales and environmental issues, but most of us are fairly in sync with all of that, on most levels. I think it is agreed that the recent drop of oil prices has caused a resurgence of interest in (and advertising for) big ICE vehicles, but sanity will eventually return and the tides will shift. 

Regarding Phantom's creative mathematics and economic misunderstanding (perhaps mostly a refusal to understand or accept anything but his own illusions), it can be seen that the economy has rebounded nicely when government spending was a bit more generous toward the common worker and welfare or unemployment benefit recipient, as all of that money is "wasted" by purchasing things mostly sold in local stores that hire more people and the profits move up the chain, ideally to other middle class spenders. But there is a short path to the corporate Hoovers who slurp up most of it and use it for their own accumulation of wealth or outsourcing, and NOT for local re-investment. With higher taxes on these transactions, more of the money spent by government would be recouped and even amplified, and the more it is "wasted" by the poor (except on black market items like drugs), the more it contributes to a healthy expanding economy. 

I challenge all right-wing stingy egotists to analyze this effect and try to refute it. No fair using "Phantom Math" or fairy tales, either!


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