# 700hp Electric Corvette Coming



## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Alright, now I'm allowed to say that we are working on this machine at EVDrive. It's going to be pretty sweet...


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Can you give any details that weren't included in the article?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

rochesterricer said:


> Can you give any details that weren't included in the article?


I think Genovation wants to hold back the specs until they unveil, but it's really being designed for performance. Everything is liquid cooled--motor, inverters and batteries. It should have well over 100 mile range (if you aren't driving at 200 mph).


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## The Toecutter (May 30, 2010)

This looks to be one sweet ass ride. The Corvette is a decent platform to use for a performance EV, in spite of its flaws.

700 hp in a package that is likely to weigh in around 3,200 lbs or so will give it 0-60 mph ~2.5 seconds if geared for 210 mph, judging by the performance, gearing, and weight of the Tesla Model S P85D with its 690 hp. That's nothing to be ignored.

I think the Corvette would be a much better car if it were built to about 5/6th scale. It's too heavy, with too big of a frontal area... and could use more concessions to function and less to style in order to further reduce drag. It should be a 40+ mpg hwy car when using gasoline, dammit... and would achieve this, if its drag coefficient were about 0.2, frontal area under 19 sq ft, and weighed in at under 2,500 lbs, keeping the same oversized monolith of an engine and over-built mechanicals. And with the same proposed EV package, probably get close to 33% more range... but alas.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

First images of the car...

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/18/battery-show-2015-genovation-gxe-corvette-ev-designed-for-the/


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

Hollie Maea said:


> First images of the car...
> 
> http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/18/battery-show-2015-genovation-gxe-corvette-ev-designed-for-the/


Saw the car at The Battery Show and chatted with Andrew for a while... Nice guy and nice car!! Can't wait to see what it can do...


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Hmm ?... looks a lot like a (old) Corvette !


> ...The Genovation GXE Corvette can go from 0-60 miles per hour in three seconds and has a top speed of 200 mph. The powertrain was designed and built in the US, and offers over 700 horsepower and over 600 pound-feet or torque.
> Saul said that the GXE was designed to do two hard laps at Nurburgring thanks to a 44-kWh battery pack uses the same sort of cylindrical 18650 cells that you can find in a Tesla.
> ... The car also has ....... a *six-speed manual transmission*


How come with more power, multiple gears, and less weight..
..its no faster to 60 than a Tesla ?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Karter2 said:


> How come with more power, multiple gears, and less weight..
> ..its no faster to 60 than a Tesla ?


The 0-60 has not been done yet. We don't want to over promise. It will certainly come down to traction, being only rear wheel drive.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Hollie Maea said:


> First images of the car...
> 
> http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/18/battery-show-2015-genovation-gxe-corvette-ev-designed-for-the/


"Saul said that buying one will set you back $330,000 (just $290,000 if you bring your own C6 Z06)"

OUCH!


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

rochesterricer said:


> "Saul said that buying one will set you back $330,000 (just $290,000 if you bring your own C6 Z06)"
> 
> OUCH!


Yeah, low volume production isn't cheap. It's hard to say if they will get any buyers at that price. On the other hand, Renovo thinks they can get 500 grand for their car, with half the power and 2/3 the battery (albeit with a very pretty body)...


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## johnnywheels (Nov 19, 2015)

Hollie Maea said:


> First images of the car...
> airwheel s3t scooter
> http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/18/battery-show-2015-genovation-gxe-corvette-ev-designed-for-the/


I like that they kept the traditional corvette body, looks very clean. Looks like there's paddle shifters on the steering wheel, must be such a smooth ride. Can't wait to see one of these things in action!


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## jonescg (Nov 3, 2010)

A pair of PM250s too  nice.

So if you BYO donor, you save just $40k. You got yourself some cheap parts there!


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

johnnywheels said:


> Looks like there's paddle shifters on the steering wheel, must be such a smooth ride.


No paddle shifters, but there is a regen paddle.

Really, you'll only need one shift to get well over 100mph, with a 10,000RPM motor redline (and 625 ft-lbs of torque)...


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Up and running! News to come soon...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Over 700hp from a 44kWh pack of Tesla NCA cells?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Over 700hp from a 44kWh pack of Tesla NCA cells?


We did not use Tesla cells. Power too low. We made our own pack.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That makes more sense, one of the articles said same type of cells Tesla uses. I guess they just meant 18650 form factor? Can you say what actual cells you are using, or at least the chemistry?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> That makes more sense, one of the articles said same type of cells Tesla uses. I guess they just meant 18650 form factor? Can you say what actual cells you are using, or at least the chemistry?


They are 18650s, and they are NCA. I probably shouldn't reveal the exact cells though.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Can finally reveal: The corvette has set a new top speed for street legal EV, at 186 mph...

This was straight out of the garage, basically, and not at full power. So we expect to push that number even higher.

Video at Genovation's FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/genovationcars/


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Very Kool


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Thanks Major, we're pretty excited.

BTW, if you don't want to go to Facebook, there's a Vimeo link here:

https://vimeo.com/157185902


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Hollie Maea said:


> BTW, if you don't want to go to Facebook...https://vimeo.com/157185902


You're in the big time, now. The story was on the Yahoo news at least twice that I saw. 

B


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

dedlast said:


> You're in the big time, now. The story was on the Yahoo news at least twice that I saw.
> 
> B


Ooh...Yahoo famous. That's pretty famous!


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## johnnywheels (Nov 19, 2015)

Hollie Maea said:


> Can finally reveal: The corvette has set a new top speed for street legal EV, at 186 mph...
> 
> This was straight out of the garage, basically, and not at full power. So we expect to push that number even higher.
> 
> ...


Wow, I can't wait to see what that thing can do at full force! Thanks for the updates!!


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Here's a link to an article with a more indepth video of the run at KSC (with an appearance by my boss, Bob Simpson):

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/14/genovation-corvette-gxe-electric-mini-doc-top-speed-record/


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

As awesome as this is I do wonder about the price point when compared to what you get with a Model S P90DL. The S has more range, better 0-60, AWD, and costs less, a lot less if you get a slightly used one. No room to get at least a 60kWh pack in it? Also I'm a bit surprised that a Vette only gets 120 miles out of a 44kWh pack when driven normally. Thought it would be more slippery than that, though maybe it's setup for extra down pressure.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> As awesome as this is I do wonder about the price point when compared to what you get with a Model S P90DL. The S has more range, better 0-60, AWD, and costs less, a lot less if you get a slightly used one. No room to get at least a 60kWh pack in it? Also I'm a bit surprised that a Vette only gets 120 miles out of a 44kWh pack when driven normally. Thought it would be more slippery than that, though maybe it's setup for extra down pressure.


1. It's really an issue of low volume...it's hard to compete with a mass produced car like the P90D. What Tesla has done is pretty incredible. I don't know if Genovation will be able to sell these cars at this price point, but there are a lot of Corvette fans.

2. No room for more batteries. Keep in mind these are high power cells. If we used power cells that have become available since the build, it would increase the capacity to 51kWh. If we used Tesla cells, it would increase to 55kWh, but would be unable of hitting the power levels necessary to have hit the record. A Tesla is built from the ground up to fit the batteries in. The corvette has much fewer places to stash them. We actually had 5 separate liquid cooled battery packs in here, that fill up every conceivable space. The only place you could put more is in the back deck, which would screw up the weight distribution. Our packs are actually more volumetrically dense than Tesla. I honestly don't think anyone could possibly put a larger pack in here (apart from filling up the deck).

3. 120 miles is an estimate. It's conservative...you don't want to overpromise.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Hollie Maea said:


> 3. 120 miles is an estimate. It's conservative...you don't want to overpromise.


That makes sense. It can probably do a lot better than that.


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## okashira (Mar 1, 2015)

Hollie Maea said:


> 1. It's really an issue of low volume...it's hard to compete with a mass produced car like the P90D. What Tesla has done is pretty incredible. I don't know if Genovation will be able to sell these cars at this price point, but there are a lot of Corvette fans.
> 
> 2. No room for more batteries. Keep in mind these are high power cells. If we used power cells that have become available since the build, it would increase the capacity to 51kWh. If we used Tesla cells, it would increase to 55kWh, but would be unable of hitting the power levels necessary to have hit the record. A Tesla is built from the ground up to fit the batteries in. The corvette has much fewer places to stash them. We actually had 5 separate liquid cooled battery packs in here, that fill up every conceivable space. The only place you could put more is in the back deck, which would screw up the weight distribution. Our packs are actually more volumetrically dense than Tesla. I honestly don't think anyone could possibly put a larger pack in here (apart from filling up the deck).
> 
> 3. 120 miles is an estimate. It's conservative...you don't want to overpromise.


Very nice.
Samsung 25R's?
And the upgraded cells would be Samsung 30Q's? )
Excellent choice.
Is the motor permanent magnet?

Edit: i see now - Remy motors, gear boxes. Two or 3 speed?
Having a Tranny really helps keep core losses down, something that worries be about using 2 big Remy motors at high speed


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

okashira said:


> Very nice.
> Samsung 25R's?
> And the upgraded cells would be Samsung 30Q's? )
> Excellent choice.
> ...


Close! We tested a cell against the 30Q that is (VERY marginally) better. But 30Q is a good choice.

We kept the 6 speed. But our run only used two gears. Three is certainly plenty (I'm trying to get a project funded that would have a compact 3 speed).

But, getting up to high speeds still means spinning the motors fast. Due to 700VDC rail, we have full torque out to 7500 RPM. Redline is 10,000.


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## okashira (Mar 1, 2015)

Hollie Maea said:


> Close! We tested a cell against the 30Q that is (VERY marginally) better. But 30Q is a good choice.
> 
> We kept the 6 speed. But our run only used two gears. Three is certainly plenty (I'm trying to get a project funded that would have a compact 3 speed).
> 
> But, getting up to high speeds still means spinning the motors fast. Due to 700VDC rail, we have full torque out to 7500 RPM. Redline is 10,000.


The LG HG2 didn't quite test as well as the 30Q for me...
So you are using LG HE4 or HE2
Have you had any experience with over 700V on the Remy motors? I am wondeing if they could take 800V without issue


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

okashira said:


> Have you had any experience with over 700V on the Remy motors? I am wondeing if they could take 800V without issue


Inverter limit is 800V, but as soon as you draw power it drops, so the motors don't see the full voltage.

192S, charged to 800V max, seems to work well for this package, and doesn't stress the cells as much.


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## okashira (Mar 1, 2015)

Hollie Maea said:


> Inverter limit is 800V, but as soon as you draw power it drops, so the motors don't see the full voltage.
> 
> 192S, charged to 800V max, seems to work well for this package, and doesn't stress the cells as much.


Great! Thank you


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Is it possible to build a EV drive for a "performance" car using only Direct drive ?
Could you have enough torque at low rpm, (0-500rpm) and retain high rpm performance (3000+ rpm)
Could it be done with practical voltage and current limits, and high efficiency.?
Something like the Drayson, but without the reduction gearing it uses , or the Keonisegg Rugera but without the ICE assist.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Karter

You would have to "model" different strategies - there was a thread a few years ago when we did that,
As far as I can remember it would depend on the required top speed - at 100mph it is close to impossible to beat a single speed


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Karter2 said:


> Is it possible to build a EV drive for a "performance" car using only Direct drive ?
> Could you have enough torque at low rpm, (0-500rpm) and retain high rpm performance (3000+ rpm)
> Could it be done with practical voltage and current limits, and high efficiency.?
> Something like the Drayson, but without the reduction gearing it uses , or the Keonisegg Rugera but without the ICE assist.



Tesla P85 RWD does 0-60 in 5.4 sec with a 130 top speed using a 9.73:1 single speed gear reduction and I think a 16,000 RPM max. P85DL AWD does 0-60 in 2.8 sec with a 155 top speed.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Yes JRP3, im familiar with the Tesla, but i meant no reduction between the motor and the wheels, as the Rugera does for initial low speed performance.
Basicly it needs a motor of very high torque (4-6000NM) and high efficiency at low rpm (0-3000rpm ?)


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Karter
I would have said - NO - there is torque/motor mass relationship which is kind of built into the physics
So for 8 times the torque - you tend to need about 8 times the mass


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

Karter2 said:


> Is it possible to build a EV drive for a "performance" car using only Direct drive ?
> Could you have enough torque at low rpm, (0-500rpm) and retain high rpm performance (3000+ rpm)
> Could it be done with practical voltage and current limits, and high efficiency.?
> Something like the Drayson, but without the reduction gearing it uses , or the Keonisegg Rugera but without the ICE assist.


Well, you could sort of do it, but not with amazing low end performance. The most torque dense motor I know of is the Yasa 750, with 790 N-m of torque and a redline of 3250 RPM, weighing 33 kg. String four of them together for a weight of 132 kg (290 lbs). That's a little heavy, but doable.

Direct drive, that gives you 3160 N-m. That's less than the lowest performing Teslas, but more than a Nissan Leaf (2223 N-m). So it would be zippy, but not blowing the doors off anyone in a stoplight drag race. On the other hand, it would be geared for a top speed of about 250 mph, depending on tire size. So no one could complain on that end. Probably wouldn't have the necessary torque to actually reach that speed. But it would certainly be fast.

To make it work, you would need a 700V battery capable of delivering 1800 Amps. Again, doable but a tall order. Gears really do help...


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

I realise there probably are no existing motors that meet the requirements ..
( though the Rugera does run 2 Yasa motors direct coupled to the drive shafts for its 0-50 sprint before the ICE kicks in ?)
Anyone know the spec of those YASA motors on that Rugera ?
Edit...seem they are standard 750 motors giving a total of 1600 NM. ! ( how does that give them "record breaking" accelleration ?) 
But what would need to be changed to make that level of torque (5000+ NM) ...with high efficiency,..from a single motor ?...or two, one for each wheel ?
...Or does it just get too big ?.too many amps,....too much volts, ?

And your idea of 4 Yasa 750's,.....isnt that the Drayson set up, without its reduction gearing. .?
Edit....and it does actually weigh less than Eldis reported his Tesla motor/reduction box weighed at 140kg !


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

We broke our own record, topping out at 205.6 mph!

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/07/20160728-gxe.html


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Article with video: https://www.wired.com/2016/07/watch-electric-corvette-obliterate-speed-record/


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