# Recycled used batteries



## Dr. Bill (Oct 17, 2008)

I need input on the possibility of getting used 6 volt deep cycle L.A. batteries and building a 144 volt pack. I have a supplier. These would probably come from multiple sources. My question is...how hard will it be to balance a pack of batteries that have not been hooked in a series? I'm sure some will be better than others etc. I'm talking $325 vs. $2,325 for new and I think it is worth a try. Worst case scenario I sell them for scrap and lose a Franklin......Bill


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

You could try and put 2 in series and use a 12 volt deep cycle charger to start to balance them. It's easier to balance 6 cells instead of 72 cells, so I would start by buddying up two at a time and getting a 12 volt smart charger to start off. Then once all the buddy pairs are charged, put them in the full 144 volt series and go from there.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

It will depend on the condition of the batteries. Of course you're going to have to be ready to replace any, possibly many, bad apples.

You don't mention the chemistry, but I'm going to assume flooded lead-acid batteries. If they are gel or AGM throw this out the window.

I would start getting each of them up to full charge and check that it's correct. I think the peak chage would be something like 7.5v. Any that you can't get reasonably close to that, discard. There is some room for variation. If you get 10 that go to 7.5, 10 that go to 7.4, and 4 that go to 7.3, that's dealable. Even if you can only get them up to say 7.0, as long as they're all close, you're okay, but know that they're getting long in the tooth.

Once you have them up to peak voltage and ensure that the low performers (and any extraordinary performers, too) are removed, I would wire them in series and discharge them down to say 50% DoD. Once they're there, check each of them and see what the voltage is. Any that have crept down too far or didn't drop like the others, remove. 

What you have left will make a consistent pack that you can charge without worying. I would have to recomend distributed charging over one 144v charger for these for just that reason, however. If you don't get them close to the same performance, you're just not going to be able to depend on the pack.


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## Dr. Bill (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I figured I would start with 30 of them and if I need more add them before I settle on the 24 for the pack. I also thought I might start them all off with a tablespoon of EDTA per cell for desulfication. I plan to charge and discharge them 4-5 times before I pick the ones I want to use for the pack. Thanks again for the advice and if there is more input please say your piece. By the way these are flooded lead acid batteries.......Bill


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Could you explain what the EDTA would supposedly do, and where you intend to get it ?? Is this the same stuff used to clear heavy metals and open clogs in Arteries, in people ?? Thanks


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Harold in CR said:


> Could you explain what the EDTA would supposedly do, and where you intend to get it ?? Is this the same stuff used to clear heavy metals and open clogs in Arteries, in people ?? Thanks


Internets ftw!

http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/batteries/edta/edta.htm


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Not sure what that FTW is, but, thanks for the link. 

Things are not so readily apparent, in Costa Rica.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Harold in CR said:


> Not sure what that FTW is, but, thanks for the link.
> 
> Things are not so readily apparent, in Costa Rica.


 

ftw = for the win ! hes basically saying with a nice but sarcastic tone search next time lol ... i think ...


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## Dr. Bill (Oct 17, 2008)

Harold in CR said:


> Could you explain what the EDTA would supposedly do, and where you intend to get it ?? Is this the same stuff used to clear heavy metals and open clogs in Arteries, in people ?? Thanks


Harold.....It is the same thing but I doubt that it is medical grade. I wouldn't try to chelate it IV if I were you, although I would like to find the medical grade of EDTA.....Bill


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Dr. Bill said:


> Harold.....It is the same thing but I doubt that it is medical grade. I wouldn't try to chelate it IV if I were you, although I would like to find the medical grade of EDTA.....Bill


I added EDTA to this old pack of 8v trojans when I first got my yellow car and it worked fine. I put a LOT of miles on after that, right now I am playing with an electronic desulphator on that same pack but my SG is still lower than new but I think its because of the edta that was added (I did add a little acid to fill the batteries when I added edta per my guestimation) My batteries are definately coming back though, I just need to quite trying to modify and repair issues with my car and put it back together again.

The trouble with EDTA is it does weaken the acid, if I had it to do all over again I would setup my plastic box battery dumping area and collect all the acid out dump in distilled with EDTA, charge slowly until the sulphation dissolves and, up the strength of the old acid with some pure sulphuric acid and dump it back in.

Otherwise your batteries have lower capacity due to the weaker electrolite and the edta can cause organic corosion over time.

Good Luck


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks guys. Figured it was a smartass comment. I use the simple english language, not the new abbreviate everything, computer-eeze, not in dictionary, TEXTING, crap. 

I took chelation treatments and felt like a million bucks after. Check out holistic medicine practitioners. I have one near my daughters house, in Florida. 

Thanks for the civil answers.

And YES, I HAVE done searches. Just trying to understand things, better.


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## Dr. Bill (Oct 17, 2008)

Just remember every guy likes a little ass but nobody likes a smart ass!!!Bill


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Sorry if I offended, I didn't mean to.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Same here. Just stating the facts, only the facts. 

Could NOT get a small amount of medical grade from the DR. office, this morning.

Proceeding on to 2 REAL pharmacies.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

From what I have read, it is not a good idea to add fresh sulphuric acid to a battery.

In my experiments with weak-failed batteries, it didn't do any good.

Kinda like holistic and homeopathic medicine......nothing in it.....but hope.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Coley said:


> From what I have read, it is not a good idea to add fresh sulphuric acid to a battery.
> 
> In my experiments with weak-failed batteries, it didn't do any good.
> 
> Kinda like holistic and homeopathic medicine......nothing in it.....but hope.


Just adding acid will destroy a battery, the only exceptions are as follows

1. Acid spilled or bubbled out
2. Added EDTA directly to weak battery with weak acid without removing the acid.

Both situations result in weaker electrolite than you should have, it is very hard to determine what the strength should be however when those situations occur.

The long explanation is simple your acid moves into the battery in the form of sulphation as it ages, you add EDTA to break the sulphation away and the edta drops with it to the bottom of the battery. That means the acid is removed from the battery & electrolite by the EDTA and not returned so the acid has less sulphur in it than it should thus it is weaker.

Weaker acid in a battery allows the positive plate to last longer but also reduces the capacity and increases the freezing point, neither of which are desirable.

Cheers
Ryan


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## Dr. Bill (Oct 17, 2008)

rmay635703 said:


> Just adding acid will destroy a battery, the only exceptions are as follows
> 
> 1. Acid spilled or bubbled out
> 2. Added EDTA directly to weak battery with weak acid without removing the acid.
> ...


Ryan...That all sounds great but why would the sulfur that is released from the plates sink to the bottom and not go back into suspension in the acid. The sulfur is given up because of the electrolysis taking place in the battery. When the sulfur is broken away from the plates whether it be by a high frequency charger or by EDTA it should go back into suspension with the acid. EDTA was originally used to bind to toxic levels of lead in the body of sailors when they came back from WW2 from the paint that they were exposed to. The lead was then passed out thru the urine. If my biochemistry serves me correctly the sulfur broken down from the plates of a battery will go back into suspension and make the sulfuric acid more potent than if the sulfur were left on the plate. The notion that something has been lost is not right. If it has not boiled out everything is still there; however it is in a different form than when introduced to the battery....Bill


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Dr. Bill said:


> Ryan...That all sounds great but why would the sulfur that is released from the plates sink to the bottom and not go back into suspension in the acid. The sulfur is given up because of the electrolysis taking place in the battery. When the sulfur is broken away from the plates whether it be by a high frequency charger or by EDTA it should go back into suspension with the acid. EDTA was originally used to bind to toxic levels of lead in the body of sailors when they came back from WW2 from the paint that they were exposed to. The lead was then passed out thru the urine. If my biochemistry serves me correctly the sulfur broken down from the plates of a battery will go back into suspension and make the sulfuric acid more potent than if the sulfur were left on the plate. The notion that something has been lost is not right. If it has not boiled out everything is still there; however it is in a different form than when introduced to the battery....Bill


I think you answered yourself in there. The EDTA binds with it, leaving sediment. The sediment is sediment because the remaining acid is not a strong enough solvent to break the bond they've formed, thus making the bonded sulfur unble to be used as part of the electrolyte.


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