# How Obama's Executive Orders Could Transform the Auto Industry



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Transform it into a thing of the past...


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

PhantomPholly said:


> Transform it into a thing of the past...


You might be right, but I'm not sure I even care anymore. Everyone has dragged their feet long enough and if the big three should fall then so be it.

.....although they would probably just get another bailout again, and the vicious cycle will continue.

I do feel however that someting like automotive standards should be regulated at the federal level, not state or (in my case) provincial level. Things can get way too complicated if local governments start writing their own rules.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Actually, foot dragging is the best possible answer. This will force bankruptcy, and allow the companies to re-negotiate (or even terminate) their Union contracts, and to restructure their failing pension funds (the biggest source of their pain).

The big 3 really do have assets not good for anything except car production. They may get bought in part or whole by foreign investors, but they will survive somehow.


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## speedboats (Jan 10, 2009)

PhantomPholly said:


> Actually, foot dragging is the best possible answer. This will force bankruptcy, and allow the companies to re-negotiate (or even terminate) their Union contracts, and to restructure their failing pension funds (the biggest source of their pain).
> 
> The big 3 really do have assets not good for anything except car production. They may get bought in part or whole by foreign investors, but they will survive somehow.


So what you are hinting at is that the big three aren't really at fault for failing business structure, but more that the Unions have a REALLY BIG noose around their necks?

Looking to the airline industry for examples and parallels to the auto industry, it was the crippling effect of the unions that caused the closure of many airlines, rediculous pension funds, double manpower requirments, unfathomable management structure, all an incredible financial burden the the company. Unions have become big business themselves, something they were designed to fight against...


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

speedboats said:


> So what you are hinting at is that the big three aren't really at fault for failing business structure, but more that the Unions have a REALLY BIG noose around their necks?
> 
> Looking to the airline industry for examples and parallels to the auto industry, it was the crippling effect of the unions that caused the closure of many airlines, rediculous pension funds, double manpower requirments, unfathomable management structure, all an incredible financial burden the the company. Unions have become big business themselves, something they were designed to fight against...


Not to mention constant government regulations on their business, insurance premiums being increased continually through strangleholds of governments on liablity, FAA pay offs, constant FAA inspections which they pay for, fuel surcharges/taxes...

Anything else I'm missing on how the government destroys these businesses through regulations? Unions were always big businesses btw... even in FDR's day, where he attempted to blame republicans for the unions he founded attempting to "raise unemployment" through worker strikes.

Of course no such consipracy was ever found, but amazingly people actually believed FDR about it.


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

That makes a lot of sense. Look at the foreign cars being built in the southern states. They aren't doing nearly as bad as the big three and they pay their people 30-40 dollars an hour compared to the UAW people making 78 dollars an hour. And that is for regular workers, I can only imagine what members of management makes.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Jason Lattimer said:


> That makes a lot of sense. Look at the foreign cars being built in the southern states. They aren't doing nearly as bad as the big three and they pay their people 30-40 dollars an hour compared to the UAW people making 78 dollars an hour. And that is for regular workers, I can only imagine what members of management makes.


 
I believe the actual hourly rate for a UAW employee is closer to 40-50. However the net cost has been estimated at $70+/hour when you consider all the benafits that come on top of the hourly wage. Must be some big benafits for that cost

On a canadian note, the companies are starting to play hardball with the canadian auto workers union. The CAW has long refused to take a pay cut and often counter with their well rehearsed phrase "we could work for nothing and it still woudn't solve the problem" (I'd love to see them put their money where their mouth is on that one). Now GM is dropping hints that it may abandon it's canadian branch plants completely. They don't dare make a direct mention about how the union is the reason, but its not hard to figure out with negotiations comming up.

speedboats makes a good point about how unions have possibly become what they were designed to fight.

There were at least two major union strikes in canada recently that were ended when the government implemented back to work legislation. York university and the ottawa public transit union.


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## speedboats (Jan 10, 2009)

If you get a chance, have a look into the collapse of Ansett airlines. It was an independant airline between NZ and Aust. Air New Zealand first bought the NZ operations (where we have independant contract options or Union options) and then the Austrailian operations (still heavily unionised). It was then discovered that Aust. ground operations were excessively large (about 1200 staff from memory. All this prior to 9/11), and the company would only survive if the numbers were cut by about 400. Unions said it was unacceptable and that all were needed for 'safety' (although airlines keep this in mind, crashing a multi-million dollar aircraft is bad of your public image and not great on the bottom of the ledger either!!!). Bottom line, unions wouldn't move and the airline busted. Unions lost all 1200 jobs, their bosses still got paid but should have been hung!


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