# [EVDL] Range Test



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well I got the DC-DC converter straightened out. I wanted that in place
before I tried to do a range test. This will be the third time on the road
with the little Escort. This first time was around the block a few times.
The second time was to Mc D's and back (apprx 5 miles). These trips were on
cool mornings. High 60's and low 70's. Also, I live in a hilly area.

Well the trip out was great. Some hill work A few stop lights. This is on
the main highway near my house (highway, not interstate). Things were moving
fine. I got up to 45 mph. Went out 5 miles. Turned around. Came back 2
miles. Stopped at a light. Started up the hill and I could hear it start to
whine. And then things started slowing down real quick. I think I was able
to push it (at 5mph or less) another 1000 feet. I parked at a gas station (I
guess they can still be good for something). I had read then manual. I knew
what was wrong and I was 3 miles from the house. I have a phone. The gas
station had a phone. I could easily call my girlfriend to come get me. If I
had done that, I could go back to the house and get the truck with the tow
bar. No. I wasn't going to do that. Went in the store got a cool drink and
proceeded to wiat for the controller to cool.

Girlfriend calls me to see hows it going. I assure her everything is ok. I
was just going to let the controller cool and limp back home. This highway
is notorious for bad traffic. And I had to enter the traffic uphill (strange
what you notice at times like this. All the entries were uphill.). I caught
a break from a light and ducked in at the next strip mall. Btw there are no
side roads I can take to avoid this road. I went from one strip mall to the
next. Total of 5 stops letting the controller cool for about 15 to 20
minutes each. Two and a half hours after I started this test, I crawl into
my driveway at a little less than 5 mph. Controller was whining the last few
hundred feet. Called my girlfriend to let her know I was home and that the
test was such a success. (she knows better)

It was disappointing. I knew I had plenty of battery. But the controller
could not take this heat. 87 here right now. Easily gets well past 100 in
July and August.

So I am hoping the thermal shutdowns (very pural) protected the controller.
I am off to see if I can squeeze a better heatsink and fan under the hood.

Hope this helps anyone else installing their controller. I knew heat "could"
be a problem. I just expected it to show up in the high 90's.

Don


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Don,

A thermoelectric device call a Peltier can be attach to the heat sink which 
can cool it from 60 to 100 degrees difference. See at All Electronics or 
http://www.allelectronics.com/. Part No. PJT-7 or PJT-10.

I am experimenting with the PJT-10 as a heater unit. One side measures 
about 190 degrees F while the other side reads about 55 degrees F.

I am installing in a a 5 by 4 inch insulated duct with the vehicle fan on 
one end. There is a four flap type doors in the duct that I operated with a 
12 volt electric door operator, which can either select the cool side while 
the hot side exhaust to the outside or can select the hot side while the 
cold side exhaust to the outside.

My existing heating system is modified to circulated the cab heat, unlike 
when you use engine heat, cold outside air is use to temper the hot 240 
degree engine coolant temperature. I find I can heat the passenger 
compartment with a 640 watt heater to 80 F. at 0 degrees ambient 
temperature.

I will see how this device will work on the cool side for cooling the 
passenger compartment.

This device is rated at 13 vdc at 5 amps, while my three heater units are 
rated a 180 vdc at 12 amps.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "D S" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Range Test


> Well I got the DC-DC converter straightened out. I wanted that in place
> before I tried to do a range test. This will be the third time on the road
> with the little Escort. This first time was around the block a few times.
> The second time was to Mc D's and back (apprx 5 miles). These trips were 
> on
> cool mornings. High 60's and low 70's. Also, I live in a hilly area.
>
> Well the trip out was great. Some hill work A few stop lights. This is on
> the main highway near my house (highway, not interstate). Things were 
> moving
> fine. I got up to 45 mph. Went out 5 miles. Turned around. Came back 2
> miles. Stopped at a light. Started up the hill and I could hear it start 
> to
> whine. And then things started slowing down real quick. I think I was able
> to push it (at 5mph or less) another 1000 feet. I parked at a gas station 
> (I
> guess they can still be good for something). I had read then manual. I 
> knew
> what was wrong and I was 3 miles from the house. I have a phone. The gas
> station had a phone. I could easily call my girlfriend to come get me. If 
> I
> had done that, I could go back to the house and get the truck with the tow
> bar. No. I wasn't going to do that. Went in the store got a cool drink and
> proceeded to wiat for the controller to cool.
>
> Girlfriend calls me to see hows it going. I assure her everything is ok. I
> was just going to let the controller cool and limp back home. This highway
> is notorious for bad traffic. And I had to enter the traffic uphill 
> (strange
> what you notice at times like this. All the entries were uphill.). I 
> caught
> a break from a light and ducked in at the next strip mall. Btw there are 
> no
> side roads I can take to avoid this road. I went from one strip mall to 
> the
> next. Total of 5 stops letting the controller cool for about 15 to 20
> minutes each. Two and a half hours after I started this test, I crawl into
> my driveway at a little less than 5 mph. Controller was whining the last 
> few
> hundred feet. Called my girlfriend to let her know I was home and that the
> test was such a success. (she knows better)
>
> It was disappointing. I knew I had plenty of battery. But the controller
> could not take this heat. 87 here right now. Easily gets well past 100 in
> July and August.
>
> So I am hoping the thermal shutdowns (very pural) protected the 
> controller.
> I am off to see if I can squeeze a better heatsink and fan under the hood.
>
> Hope this helps anyone else installing their controller. I knew heat 
> "could"
> be a problem. I just expected it to show up in the high 90's.
>
> Don
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

can you not need fewer doors and flaps by flipping the pos, and neg. the the
cold and hot side change sides. less need for doors and ducting you only
need vent one side to outside cabin with heatsink and fan and one side stays
inside. then when you want hot or cold you just flip the pos &neg. same fans
blow.
the hot side works much better then the cool side. so the side that is hot
should get more fan speed or the heat bleeds over to the cold side.
I thought about using 2 brass heater cores filled and capped with the units
on the side sandwiched between them, then duct air blown through those, the
brass should move the hot and cold well, and a fan could be mounted right on
the cores
?
how about it?



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Don,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 31 May 2008 at 16:02, D S wrote:
> 
> > the controller could not take this heat. 87 here right now. Easily gets
> > well past 100 in July and August.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Randy,

I am using my large heater/air-conditional blower, which is design only 
circulate the air one way. Go ahead and try to draw out this unit inside a 
ductway, and then have it blow the hot air in while you exhaust the cold out 
on the other side of the heat sink unit. Then switch it to blow in the hot 
air, while you blow the cool air out.

I can do it with four air duct doors gang together on one end of the Peltier 
unit. Need only one activator to work all the doors at the same time. The 
cool and hot air can use the same duct to exhaust to the outside by 
reposition the doors.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test


> can you not need fewer doors and flaps by flipping the pos, and neg. the 
> the
> cold and hot side change sides. less need for doors and ducting you only
> need vent one side to outside cabin with heatsink and fan and one side 
> stays
> inside. then when you want hot or cold you just flip the pos &neg. same 
> fans
> blow.
> the hot side works much better then the cool side. so the side that is hot
> should get more fan speed or the heat bleeds over to the cold side.
> I thought about using 2 brass heater cores filled and capped with the 
> units
> on the side sandwiched between them, then duct air blown through those, 
> the
> brass should move the hot and cold well, and a fan could be mounted right 
> on
> the cores
> ?
> how about it?
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Don,
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ah so, just sounded like a lot of doors. How many units are you using? I was
thinking 3 or 4 with switches for each.
I have 2 on hand to play with and have not had time yet to work on the
details, I was just out testing the electrial on my glider 87 honda
hatchback, and it all checks out all of the running lights and fans and
everything inside works great stand alone I already pulled the brain box so
no worries.
just battery boxsand motor adaperts to build.
later.
oh about this thread just adding some fans should help yes? and mounting the
controler to a nice 1/4 thick pcs of alumi plate should suck a lot of heat
off.



> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Randy,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I thought the temp differential on a peltier device was 40 degrees. I don't
think it has changed unless you are stacking them. The only other thing
could be that your hot side heat sink and fan aren't big enough and you will
soon melt your peltier junctions. 

Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test

Hello Don,

A thermoelectric device call a Peltier can be attach to the heat sink which 
can cool it from 60 to 100 degrees difference. See at All Electronics or 
http://www.allelectronics.com/. Part No. PJT-7 or PJT-10.

I am experimenting with the PJT-10 as a heater unit. One side measures 
about 190 degrees F while the other side reads about 55 degrees F.

I am installing in a a 5 by 4 inch insulated duct with the vehicle fan on 
one end. There is a four flap type doors in the duct that I operated with a

12 volt electric door operator, which can either select the cool side while 
the hot side exhaust to the outside or can select the hot side while the 
cold side exhaust to the outside.

My existing heating system is modified to circulated the cab heat, unlike 
when you use engine heat, cold outside air is use to temper the hot 240 
degree engine coolant temperature. I find I can heat the passenger 
compartment with a 640 watt heater to 80 F. at 0 degrees ambient 
temperature.

I will see how this device will work on the cool side for cooling the 
passenger compartment.

This device is rated at 13 vdc at 5 amps, while my three heater units are 
rated a 180 vdc at 12 amps.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "D S" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Range Test


> Well I got the DC-DC converter straightened out. I wanted that in place
> before I tried to do a range test. This will be the third time on the road
> with the little Escort. This first time was around the block a few times.
> The second time was to Mc D's and back (apprx 5 miles). These trips were 
> on
> cool mornings. High 60's and low 70's. Also, I live in a hilly area.
>
> Well the trip out was great. Some hill work A few stop lights. This is on
> the main highway near my house (highway, not interstate). Things were 
> moving
> fine. I got up to 45 mph. Went out 5 miles. Turned around. Came back 2
> miles. Stopped at a light. Started up the hill and I could hear it start 
> to
> whine. And then things started slowing down real quick. I think I was able
> to push it (at 5mph or less) another 1000 feet. I parked at a gas station 
> (I
> guess they can still be good for something). I had read then manual. I 
> knew
> what was wrong and I was 3 miles from the house. I have a phone. The gas
> station had a phone. I could easily call my girlfriend to come get me. If 
> I
> had done that, I could go back to the house and get the truck with the tow
> bar. No. I wasn't going to do that. Went in the store got a cool drink and
> proceeded to wiat for the controller to cool.
>
> Girlfriend calls me to see hows it going. I assure her everything is ok. I
> was just going to let the controller cool and limp back home. This highway
> is notorious for bad traffic. And I had to enter the traffic uphill 
> (strange
> what you notice at times like this. All the entries were uphill.). I 
> caught
> a break from a light and ducked in at the next strip mall. Btw there are 
> no
> side roads I can take to avoid this road. I went from one strip mall to 
> the
> next. Total of 5 stops letting the controller cool for about 15 to 20
> minutes each. Two and a half hours after I started this test, I crawl into
> my driveway at a little less than 5 mph. Controller was whining the last 
> few
> hundred feet. Called my girlfriend to let her know I was home and that the
> test was such a success. (she knows better)
>
> It was disappointing. I knew I had plenty of battery. But the controller
> could not take this heat. 87 here right now. Easily gets well past 100 in
> July and August.
>
> So I am hoping the thermal shutdowns (very pural) protected the 
> controller.
> I am off to see if I can squeeze a better heatsink and fan under the hood.
>
> Hope this helps anyone else installing their controller. I knew heat 
> "could"
> be a problem. I just expected it to show up in the high 90's.
>
> Don
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I will only use one unit to do the test. There will be only one selector 
switch that will position the doors for cool - off - heat.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Eckert" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test


> Ah so, just sounded like a lot of doors. How many units are you using? I 
> was
> thinking 3 or 4 with switches for each.
> I have 2 on hand to play with and have not had time yet to work on the
> details, I was just out testing the electrial on my glider 87 honda
> hatchback, and it all checks out all of the running lights and fans and
> everything inside works great stand alone I already pulled the brain box 
> so
> no worries.
> just battery boxsand motor adaperts to build.
> later.
> oh about this thread just adding some fans should help yes? and mounting 
> the
> controler to a nice 1/4 thick pcs of alumi plate should suck a lot of heat
> off.
>
>


> Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Randy,
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh, its large enough. The fan is a large 6 inch blower unit of speeds up to 
1000 cfm. There is separate air control doors that can either bring outside 
air or circulated the inside air.

I will first bench test it using the same on board system and air 
temperature before installing it.

Roland



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Grasser" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test


> I thought the temp differential on a peltier device was 40 degrees. I 
> don't
> think it has changed unless you are stacking them. The only other thing
> could be that your hot side heat sink and fan aren't big enough and you 
> will
> soon melt your peltier junctions.
>
> Mark Grasser
> Eliot, ME
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:04 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test
>
> Hello Don,
>
> A thermoelectric device call a Peltier can be attach to the heat sink 
> which
> can cool it from 60 to 100 degrees difference. See at All Electronics or
> http://www.allelectronics.com/. Part No. PJT-7 or PJT-10.
>
> I am experimenting with the PJT-10 as a heater unit. One side measures
> about 190 degrees F while the other side reads about 55 degrees F.
>
> I am installing in a a 5 by 4 inch insulated duct with the vehicle fan on
> one end. There is a four flap type doors in the duct that I operated with 
> a
>
> 12 volt electric door operator, which can either select the cool side 
> while
> the hot side exhaust to the outside or can select the hot side while the
> cold side exhaust to the outside.
>
> My existing heating system is modified to circulated the cab heat, unlike
> when you use engine heat, cold outside air is use to temper the hot 240
> degree engine coolant temperature. I find I can heat the passenger
> compartment with a 640 watt heater to 80 F. at 0 degrees ambient
> temperature.
>
> I will see how this device will work on the cool side for cooling the
> passenger compartment.
>
> This device is rated at 13 vdc at 5 amps, while my three heater units are
> rated a 180 vdc at 12 amps.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "D S" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 3:02 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Range Test
>
>
> > Well I got the DC-DC converter straightened out. I wanted that in place
> > before I tried to do a range test. This will be the third time on the 
> > road
> > with the little Escort. This first time was around the block a few 
> > times.
> > The second time was to Mc D's and back (apprx 5 miles). These trips were
> > on
> > cool mornings. High 60's and low 70's. Also, I live in a hilly area.
> >
> > Well the trip out was great. Some hill work A few stop lights. This is 
> > on
> > the main highway near my house (highway, not interstate). Things were
> > moving
> > fine. I got up to 45 mph. Went out 5 miles. Turned around. Came back 2
> > miles. Stopped at a light. Started up the hill and I could hear it start
> > to
> > whine. And then things started slowing down real quick. I think I was 
> > able
> > to push it (at 5mph or less) another 1000 feet. I parked at a gas 
> > station
> > (I
> > guess they can still be good for something). I had read then manual. I
> > knew
> > what was wrong and I was 3 miles from the house. I have a phone. The gas
> > station had a phone. I could easily call my girlfriend to come get me. 
> > If
> > I
> > had done that, I could go back to the house and get the truck with the 
> > tow
> > bar. No. I wasn't going to do that. Went in the store got a cool drink 
> > and
> > proceeded to wiat for the controller to cool.
> >
> > Girlfriend calls me to see hows it going. I assure her everything is ok. 
> > I
> > was just going to let the controller cool and limp back home. This 
> > highway
> > is notorious for bad traffic. And I had to enter the traffic uphill
> > (strange
> > what you notice at times like this. All the entries were uphill.). I
> > caught
> > a break from a light and ducked in at the next strip mall. Btw there are
> > no
> > side roads I can take to avoid this road. I went from one strip mall to
> > the
> > next. Total of 5 stops letting the controller cool for about 15 to 20
> > minutes each. Two and a half hours after I started this test, I crawl 
> > into
> > my driveway at a little less than 5 mph. Controller was whining the last
> > few
> > hundred feet. Called my girlfriend to let her know I was home and that 
> > the
> > test was such a success. (she knows better)
> >
> > It was disappointing. I knew I had plenty of battery. But the controller
> > could not take this heat. 87 here right now. Easily gets well past 100 
> > in
> > July and August.
> >
> > So I am hoping the thermal shutdowns (very pural) protected the
> > controller.
> > I am off to see if I can squeeze a better heatsink and fan under the 
> > hood.
> >
> > Hope this helps anyone else installing their controller. I knew heat
> > "could"
> > be a problem. I just expected it to show up in the high 90's.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

true, the hot side needs a lot of fan, or the heat will over come the cool
side, all the heat comes from the cold side any how, it does not make cold,
just pulls the heat from one side,, it make a better heater then cooler, and
all of it depends on outside temps.
I only played with them, have not built a box with heat sinks and blowers to
see real temps in diff environments.

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Mark Grasser <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > I thought the temp differential on a peltier device was 40 degrees. I don't
> > think it has changed unless you are stacking them. The only other thing
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What kind of controller? Sorry. I was catching up and did some skimming,
must of missed it.

Stay away from peltiers, unless you have very limited space, they are
inefficient heat pumps. I have a zilla 1K with a cooling kit from
evsource and the pump he sells. It hasn't overheated in our 110+ here in
Fresno Ca. It used to overhead with a transmission cooler and a pathetic
pump.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Roland

I have a couple of those. From www.surpluscenter.com (under Electric and
subcat of Heating Units $29 and $32). I was going to use them for heating
and cooling similar to what your working on. Its a great idea. I am trying
to think about the best way to mount it. For the heat/cool I hoped to mount
it next to the normal cabin fan. That leaves somehow ducting outside air
through the other heatsink. I have Drawn some pictures but did not try
anything yet.

I am thinking about it for the controller. The trick there is to make it
get the best transfer. I guess for starters, I could just blow the cold side
on the controller. I have a digital thermometer. I hook that up so I can see
where I am at. Then try some of these things and see what helps.

Thanks for the link.
Don

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi David

The vehicle is an 84 Ford Escort. 8" ADC motor, Curtis 1221C controller
with 13 US 8VHC batteries. The controller is mounted on 1/4 aluminum plate
about 28x20 (I think). The plate is off center above the motor. About 6 to 8
inch clearance. The controller is about 6 to 8 inches below the hood. Of
course, besides the motor there are 5 batteries, a vacum pump (SSBC), main
breaker, main contactor and the DC to DC converter under the hood.

I didn't have a calculation on how much plate to use. I feel I could bolt
fins on to the plate on the bottom. I also have a number of PC fans I could
add to blow over this.

I did some web searching this afternoon. Heat seems to be an issue with
this controller. I heard the Zilla controller is water cooled. I am not
ready to drop 2 grand into another controller. But, I have been thinking how
to attach tubing to the controller or bottom side of the plate. As long as
this controller continues to work I will try to make it work.

Any thoughts or tips are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Don

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Are you staying in as LOW a gear as possible? Ideally, you want to keep 
motor RPM close to the efficiency peak, back EMF high, the controller wide 
open and out of current limit. Typically with a small car you'll be in 
second gear around town, and third on the highway. At high speeds you may 
get into fourth gear. You hardly ever use fifth. This is the exact 
opposite of efficient driving in an ICE and for most people it doesn't come 
naturally.

On the Peltier devices : they may be useful for heating; I'm not sure. I do 
know that, for cooling, they're not anywhere near as efficient as a 
conventional aircon. You wouldn't be able to find enough room in your car 
to fit as many as you'd need to the manage the kind of cooling a car needs. 


This topic (Peltier cooling) comes up with regularity on the EVDL. Check 
the archives for more information. http://www.evdl.org/archive/

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I believe a number of conversions (mine included) use a PC cooling fan to push cool air past the controller. The controller (1231C in my case) is mounted about 1/2" above an aluminum plate with a hole cut in the plate that's just about the same size as the fan. The fan mounts underneath the plate and pushes air through the hole towards the controller. The air escapes past the sides of the controller through the 1/2" gap. Using lower gears to keep motor speeds high as someone else mentioned is very important as it reduces losses and the amount of heat the controller has to dissipate.


----- Original Message ----
From: D S <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]

The vehicle is an 84 Ford Escort. 8" ADC motor, Curtis 1221C controller
with 13 US 8VHC batteries. The controller is mounted on 1/4 aluminum plate
about 28x20 (I think).

I did some web searching this afternoon. Heat seems to be an issue with
this controller.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Don,

The under temperature may get to 140 F. or more when the ambient temperature 
is 100 F. degrees. It is hard to cool with a fan if the controller is out 
in the open. My first controller was fan cool and when I replace it with a 
Zilla, it is now fan and water cool.

It is best to place a motor controller in a enclosure which can be cool 
under a confine atmosphere. See how I install this unit:

http://go-ev.net/pics/019.html

Click the image # 019 to 027 to see this controller installation. The 
chassis plate is a steel plate with 1 inch bent edges all around that is 
welded to four standoff legs that is bolted to the firewall.

On the left side there is a Dayton blower fan that is mounted to the chassis 
flange that extends out about 5 inches on that side. The plastic cover just 
slips on with three mounting screws.

A 1/4 inch aluminum plate is mounted on the steel chassis plate with 3/4 
inch nylon spacers that standoff the aluminum plate from the steel plate.

The motor controller is also mounted on 1/2 inch nylon spacers that 
standoffs from the aluminum chassis plate. The Dayton blower now can blow 
air directly over and under the controller. There is a temperature sensor 
mounted on the controller heat sink which indicated the maximum temperature 
of the heat sink.

While the vehicle was setting for about twos hours at a ambient temperature 
of 100 degrees, the under hood temperature was 140 F. which was measure by 
another Honeywell air sensor.

Turning on the fan only would initially cool the chassis heat sink to 105 
degrees and then when I turn on the cooling water, it took it down to 98 F. 
degrees. This is about 2 f. degrees under the ambient temperature.

The radiator which is either a copper transmission or oil cooler radiator 
is mounted down low in front of the Air Conditional radiator, which has a 
large electric fan on it. There is a Stewart Warner standard engine coolant 
water sensor at the bottom out of this radiator which will read about 96 F. 
when the radiator fan is running, and about 98 F. when this fan is off.

You see, if 100 degree air is under compression, and is cool while its under 
compression, when its expanded it will cause a drop in the air temperature 
in a confine enclosure.

Note the size of the coolant holding tank. This is a Pontiac fill tank 
where the liquid level should be higher than the highest point in the 
controller heat sink. In a ICE it is also mounted higher than the radiator 
and engine. This is not a overflow tank, but a expansion tank for low 
mounted radiators.

This tank work out, like it was design for this system. It has a 3/8 inch 
return inlet stub, that has a 3/8 inch hose connected to the top out of the 
controller heat sink. A 3/4 inch stub comes off the bottom of this tank, 
where I couple a Maarineland Maxi-Jet 1200 pump which also has a inlet stub 
of 3/4 inch. I just couple the pump to the tank with a 3/4 inch hose 
coupler.

This pump has a 3/8 inch outlet, which has a 3/8 hose connected to the oil 
cooler, which also has 3/8 inch stubs. The line that comes off this 
radiator, I install a brass tee with a brass radiator drain, which is the 
lowest point of this system.

For those who are interested on how to connect a Dayton Blower fan on to a 
motor, click thru the images, until you see this fan mounted on to a Warp 
motor that has a screen brush cover on it. This fan can also be install on 
a solid brush cover too.

A curve nylon or any other type of material is use to make a curve adapter 
mount to fit the curve of the motor and the outlet of the fan. On the 
screen brush covers, there is a steel curve metal plate that extends to the 
front edge of the motor and then there is two mounting tabs that are welded 
to this plate, that comes down the face of the motor and bolts to the 5/16 
inch bolt holes on the front of the motor.

Place a 1/8 inch rubber sheeting between the brush screen and adapter and 
another one between the adapter and the fan outlet which acts like a gasket. 
Remove the two front bolts and unplug the wire from the fan, and the whole 
works come off.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "D S" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test


> Hi Roland
>
> I have a couple of those. From www.surpluscenter.com (under Electric and
> subcat of Heating Units $29 and $32). I was going to use them for heating
> and cooling similar to what your working on. Its a great idea. I am trying
> to think about the best way to mount it. For the heat/cool I hoped to 
> mount
> it next to the normal cabin fan. That leaves somehow ducting outside air
> through the other heatsink. I have Drawn some pictures but did not try
> anything yet.
>
> I am thinking about it for the controller. The trick there is to make it
> get the best transfer. I guess for starters, I could just blow the cold 
> side
> on the controller. I have a digital thermometer. I hook that up so I can 
> see
> where I am at. Then try some of these things and see what helps.
>
> Thanks for the link.
> Don
>
> _______________________________________________
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would find a surplus heat sink with lots of fins. I have one that is the
size of the Curtis with 2-1/2 inch fins. I am going to mount a 4 or 6 inch
muffin fan to the face of the fins and blow air out the ends of the heat
sink. A very important thing to do is to use heat sink compound between the
Curtis and the heat sink. Without the compound (grease) in there you will
have very little heat transfer.



Mark Grasser
Eliot, ME


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of D S
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Test

Hi David

The vehicle is an 84 Ford Escort. 8" ADC motor, Curtis 1221C controller
with 13 US 8VHC batteries. The controller is mounted on 1/4 aluminum plate
about 28x20 (I think). The plate is off center above the motor. About 6 to 8
inch clearance. The controller is about 6 to 8 inches below the hood. Of
course, besides the motor there are 5 batteries, a vacum pump (SSBC), main
breaker, main contactor and the DC to DC converter under the hood.

I didn't have a calculation on how much plate to use. I feel I could bolt
fins on to the plate on the bottom. I also have a number of PC fans I could
add to blow over this.

I did some web searching this afternoon. Heat seems to be an issue with
this controller. I heard the Zilla controller is water cooled. I am not
ready to drop 2 grand into another controller. But, I have been thinking how
to attach tubing to the controller or bottom side of the plate. As long as
this controller continues to work I will try to make it work.

Any thoughts or tips are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Don

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> D S wrote:
> > The vehicle is an 84 Ford Escort. 8" ADC motor, Curtis 1221C controller
> > with 13 US 8VHC batteries. The controller is mounted on 1/4 aluminum plate about 28x20...
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 1 Jun 2008 at 11:48, Mark Grasser wrote:
> 
> > I would find a surplus heat sink with lots of fins.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 1 Jun 2008 at 11:48, Mark Grasser wrote:
> >
> >> I would find a surplus heat sink with lots of fins.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Liquid cooling works well, but you need a pump, a little radiator, and
> a fan blowing on the radiator to dump the heat. Your plate, and the
> case of the controller are aluminum, which is rather difficult to
> attach tubing to. The usual method is to mount the controller to a
> "cold plate", which is a thick aluminum plate with holes drilled or
> extruded through it lengthwise, and fittings to circulate water.
> You could build something like this yourself with a brass plate and
> copper tubing soldered to it, or two sheets of aluminum separated
> slightly, sealed around the edges, and fittings to circulate water
> between them.
>
>
I saw a cold plate made by milling with an undersized ball endmill and
copper tubing was pressed in and back filled with epoxy.
Then compression fittings were used on the copper tubing adapted to a
brass hose barb, I guess so the tubing didn't collapse trying to keep a
seal with the hose.
It seems like this idea could have galvanic problems with copper
touching aluminum,

And then there is the PC way, mill passageways and and o-ring grove then
bolt done a plexiglass top. overhang the cooling plate to allow your
fittings to be in the metal instead of the plexiglass.

It all depends on the tools you got. Or I guess you could buy one ready
made?

http://www.dynexsemi.com/assets/Power_Assemblies/Datasheets/DNX_F-Type_WC_Hsnk.pdf

How big is the curtis footprint

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Chet Fields wrote:
> 
> > BTW, I had asked a few weeks ago about SOC and voltage
> > mentioning that my resting fully charged voltage was about
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Stockton wrote:
> 
> > Chet Fields wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John in Ma wrote:
> 
> > > The correction you refer to is to be applied to the charge voltage,
> > > and results in the charge voltage *decreasing* by 0.028V/cell/deg F
> ...


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