# Receiving batteries from China



## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have ordered 2 packs of lithium from China, and apparently need to set up arrangements to receive them in Oakland or San Francisco port. I can't just back my pick up to the ship... Anybody familiar with the procedure? Any preference of Oakland or San Fran?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

It's a long process unless you get a Customs Broker. They know all the paperwork, customs fees, warehouse fees, etc. 

I picked my shipment up at the local Customs Warehouse.

If it's just 2 packs, why not air freight?


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have always assumed that the boat was cheaper. I don't know how much it costs to ship 800 pounds air freight, but I know how much it would cost to fly my 250 pound self to china...


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

You just said Packs.... sorry.

Ocean will be cheaper, but not by a ton. Also, expect 8 weeks of time to get it here.

Customs is about 2.4% last time I shipped, so expect that, plus customs broker fees (a couple hundred), plus warehouse fees (50-200) and then there's the actual shipping fee for the boat.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have been refering to individuals as "cells", and refering to enough cells to run a car as "packs" I have two packs coming on a slow boat from China, but I have to make arrangements to get them, but I was hoping somebody here may have experience recieving in the SF bay area... maybe a bad experience that I could avoid.. I have been surfing brokers on the web and can figure it out either way.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I wasn't sure what packs you were getting.... wasn't sure if it was a test pack. Mostly my fault I guess for not reading your posts....

I worked with Allports in Portland, not sure if they have a SF branch.

First off, see which port is the cheapest to get cells, because it may be cheaper to drive to another port than to go somewhere closer.


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

this is kind of a crazy post, did you really order cells and have them put on a boat before figuring out how to get them on the other end?


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

dladd said:


> this is kind of a crazy post, did you really order cells and have them put on a boat before figuring out how to get them on the other end?


Ahh, THAT's the kind of 'shoot from the hip Han Solo style' the EV world needs. Too many people too afraid of what might go wrong so they wring their hands and wait another year for things to get 'safer'.

He will get it done.

p.s. what kind of packs are you getting?

Cheers


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I went with the tornado batteries. 36 200 ah cells for an ac 50 build, and 45 100ah cells for my lead sled upgrade. They advertise 3c/7c.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

...For those interested the website is here:
http://www.tnd-battery.com/

How did you find out about them? Why them over Thundersky ($1/ah), CALB, etc? How did you get in touch with them? cost?

Thanks...


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

A 200Ah cell with 9.3" height, would fit in a box under the rear seat of a metro with the original seat in place over the top. Nice.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

On the 36 200ah cells, I am planning a hatch box and an underhood box. The 200ah gbs build that I just did has most of the cells below the floors and the rest under the hood, but those cells are very tedious to wire, and even when I pull out the battery boxes I still cant acces the terminals without turning the boxes upside down and removing the box. It is way trick to have a completely stock interior with full backseat, hatch area, and spare tire and have 21kwh in a tiny car, but the chassis mods were very time consuming. This next build is going to have accessible battery terminals, and they won't take five screws per terminal.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> I have two packs coming on a slow boat from China,


I'm looking forward to hearing how this works out. I started trying to order a pack direct.... but got lost in unfamiliar waters with the receiving, broker, shipping... gave up and just went with US based retailer.


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## lorraine (Feb 11, 2009)

evmetro said:


> I have ordered 2 packs of lithium from China, and apparently need to set up arrangements to receive them in Oakland or San Francisco port. I can't just back my pick up to the ship... Anybody familiar with the procedure? Any preference of Oakland or San Fran?


Hi evmetro,
I think maybe you also can ask your battery supplier to contact the shipping agent, they normally have custom clearance agent at destination port. You can get in touch with the destination port custom clearance agent whom the shipping agent offer you to know the procedure and to know what data you should offer to them.

Regards,
Lorraine
Headway Group (Li-ion battery and E-bike)
email: [email protected]
www.headway-cn.com


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I left a message on their website asking for a quote on 4 and 100 pieces of their 26650 3200 mAh cells (3C) and their 38120S 10 Ah cells (10C):

http://www.tnd-battery.com/html_products/LiFePO4-Battery-26650--3200MAH-cell-269.html


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

ruckus said:


> ...For those interested the website is here:
> http://www.tnd-battery.com/
> 
> How did you find out about them? Why them over Thundersky ($1/ah), CALB, etc? How did you get in touch with them? cost?
> ...


Those Tornado Prismatic cells are Hi-Power Cells. Exactly like I have. Likely a little better than mine but not by much. Cheaper packaging and lower quality builds. If you got them for a real good price then they would be OK for most cruiser builds. Not suitable for hard driving. My next purchase will most likely be the Grey CALB cells.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I asked the rep if they were hi power cells, and he claimed they were not. I figure it probably does not matter much, as long as they get my Metros down the road. I know that the c rating can be a bit vague, but I have a feeling that a 200 ah 36 cell pack running an ac 50 has enough to where I won't need to worry much. The other pack is 45 100ah cells, and I probably will have to keep an eye on my discharge load. I will be running an adc eight and a raptor 1200.


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## lorraine (Feb 11, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I left a message on their website asking for a quote on 4 and 100 pieces of their 26650 3200 mAh cells (3C) and their 38120S 10 Ah cells (10C):
> 
> http://www.tnd-battery.com/html_products/LiFePO4-Battery-26650--3200MAH-cell-269.html


Hi Paul,
I'm Lorraine from Headway, if you want cell price, you can contact me directly by sending email to : [email protected]
Could you tell me your email address, I will send you price.

Lorraine


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The email link is missing one letter, but I fixed it and sent a RFQ. I got a reply back from Tornado, and the 3.2 Ah 26650 in small qty is about $0.80/Wh in small qty while larger quantity is less than $0.40/Wh. The 10 Ah 38120 battery is about $0.50/Wh in small qty and a bit less in larger quantities.

That compares favorably with the lowest prices I found on eBay, which is $0.72/Wh (Including shipping) for 4 pcs of 1800 mAh 18650:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400373810881

I ordered a set of four to evaluate. In higher quantities they drop to about $0.60/Wh. I wonder how much the shipping would be from Tornado? For what I need now, 100 cells, it would be only about 8 kg or 20 lb.

But I have found Li-Ion cells on eBay for only about $0.20/Wh. I also have some of them on order and I look forward to evaluating them.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I now have enough information to compare the costs from Tornado and Headway, including shipping. I'll just provide the final delivered cost and per Wh for easier comparison. You would need to contact them for a quote for your specific needs, which are likely different from mine. 

Tornado 38120S 3.2V 10Ah 4pcs $88 $0.69/Wh 100pcs $1817 $0.57/Wh

Headway 38120S 3.2V 10Ah 4pcs $149 $1.16/Wh 100pcs $1805 $0.56/Wh

Headway does not have 26650 cells or prismatics.

The shipping costs are a major factor in the smaller quantities. Cost per Wh will probably be lower for a large quantity of bigger cells for an EV. I expect the cheap cells I'm getting will prove to be overrated and the final cost per Wh will probably be comparable. I got good response from both companies and I would feel comfortable ordering from them.


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## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Has anyone ordered the batteries direct like this with BMS?


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

In case anybody is curious, it took about two months from paying for the cells to getting them into the back of my pickup. A huge portion of the time was once the cells reached the states. There were many fees that had to be paid, and they added up to roughly 10% of what the cells cost. I immediately set up the 45 100 ah cells for balancing and checked the voltages of each cell. They ranged from 3.368 to 3.371. I set my power supply for 3.65, and the current meter started at 38 amps and counted down to about 2 amps in only a few hours. I went ahead and turned off the power supply, and left them sitting there still wired up for the weekend. The Bus bars that were supplied for the 200ah cells look pretty heavy duty, but I am not sure about the bus bars for the 100ah cells. The 100ah cell bus bars appear to be two pieces of 8 gauge crimped together with lugs. Does that sound less than adequate for 100 ah cells? Or should I make up some real ones?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

#8 AWG is nominally rated at about 45-50 amps, and about 60 amps for a 30C temperature rise in free air. So two in parallel should handle 90-100 amps as long as there is adequate convection cooling. I am using #6 AWG leads on a small test set I have designed, and I was able to run about 120 amps for several minutes without overheating. #6 AWG is rated at 60-75 amps, so a 2x overload was OK. Thus you could run 180-200 amps for several minutes.


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## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

ruckus said:


> ...For those interested the website is here:
> http://www.tnd-battery.com/
> 
> How did you find out about them? Why them over Thundersky ($1/ah), CALB, etc? How did you get in touch with them? cost?
> ...


 Here is my dig aka issues

Thundersky aka Winston is not bad but CALB is better.(than others)
Next ordering like that aka direct may work HOWEVER I would rather be able in to order/purchase in country rather than _out of country_. If the order goes sideways you are limited to almost nothing out of country whereas _stateside _at least 4-5 vendors would be far less of a hassle to get cells from.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> In case anybody is curious, it took about two months from paying for the cells to getting them into the back of my pickup. A huge portion of the time was once the cells reached the states. There were many fees that had to be paid, and they added up to roughly 10% of what the cells cost.



I am very curious on the specifics here.... the whole process of individual import, or even a local club group buy, is shrouded in mystery.

If you can provide specifics it would be helpful. Start with who you had to find at the Port to receive the freight, handle all the import fees/customs, and then set up freight to your doorstep.

CalibPower.com seems to be a logical state-side distributor for CALB because they seem to be the factory-sponsored importer (not sure anyone can get a better price direct?!), but the availability of the Winston/Sinopoly direct is intriguing as a lower cost option if it could be done for less than thru Balqon.com


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

The key to the whole thing is to get a broker near you and put him in touch with the shipper before your order and then pay for your product once your customs broker here says that everything is in order. He can get you detailed info on specific fees and such, as well as dispurse a single payment from you to all the people who need ro get paid. My fees added up to almost ten percent of the order, and I was able to get my order from a wharehouse near the port, which cost a tank of fuel for my pickup, but may have saved on trucking fees to the front door.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> The key to the whole thing is to get a broker near you and put him in touch with the shipper before your order and then pay for your product once your customs broker here says that everything is in order. He can get you detailed info on specific fees and such, as well as dispurse a single payment from you to all the people who need ro get paid. My fees added up to almost ten percent of the order, and I was able to get my order from a wharehouse near the port, which cost a tank of fuel for my pickup, but may have saved on trucking fees to the front door.


thats the thing.... living in NM, I have no Port or Broker near me. Who did you use? would you recommend (post contact info?!)


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