# Problem With Kelly KHB12201



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Hallo boys, my name is Ettore, i live in Rome Italy, and i like very much prepare electric bycicle, and electric veicle...
Ok, my problem is:
i have a Kelly KHB12201 200A opto, this controller works different from my other kelly KBL non opto series 120volts..
The motor,works perfect silent and smooth with my old KBL, but with new KHB, the motor is more noisy, and little vibration, the power is ok, the controller is powerful, seems little less aggressive than KBL but the power is ok.
THe regen is strange too, because on KBL is very powerful and smooth even at 10%, but with KHB is noisy and very less powerful even at 20%.
Let me know if you too have noticed this, and if it is normal 

Thanks very much and sorry for my bad english


AND HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR ALLLLL!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Ciao Ettore,

Is the new controller the same current rating than the old one? This may explain more vibration whilst accellerating..

Which motor are you running?

Do you have an oscilloscope there to check the timing with?

Your English isn't bad, devi vedere che succede quando scrivo Io Italiano

Ciao,
Steve


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Ohhh good italian! 
The old controller is 150A, the new KHB is 200A maximum, i try with Crystalite 5304-5405, and With a hubscooter, the same results...
I don't have oscilloscope 
The old KBL is mooooore smooth...this is the bike 

https://picasaweb.google.com/ettore...authkey=Gv1sRgCOqA5oeGmq_l3wE&feat=directlink


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

i want only to know, if is it normal, because the controller good strong and good, only noisy, and little vibrating in acceleration...
Only problem is the regen, seems very weak respect at KBL


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

200A is a lot for an X5 motor, and higher current will increase the feel of "Cogging" as the motor turns at low speeds, probably that is all it is.
The timing or phases can't be too far wrong for it to work as well as it does, and you won't be able to discover more without an oscilloscope really.

Your old controller is in a much smaller case correct? I think you will find the old one was more like 100A (not the rated 150A), and the newer bigger one is really putting out 200A (the new case has a much better design than the old one), so the increase in current may be more than you are expecting..

Ciao,

Steve


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

esoria said:


> i want only to know, if is it normal, because the controller good strong and good, only noisy, and little vibrating in acceleration...
> Only problem is the regen, seems very weak respect at KBL


 
I think it is probably OK.

You must be careful however that the temperature of the main power wires stays low, especially at the point that they enter the motor shaft.
200A for long is enough to melt these wires and short the controller..

Have fun!

Steve


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

THanks for answer Steve, the strange is, with old controller on Cycle analyst i see even 150A peak, the same i see with KHB, o little more, or little less...
But if i make spin motor at low rpm non on road, but freeload, the new KHB is more noisy too! And regen works mooore weak than the older controller...
But ok if is it normal no problem, its not very bad noisy and vibration, the power is good and controller stay very cool..
But is a strange thing, i never feel this noisy with other controller, like bad halls connection.. but halls is good and wiring is ok...


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Jozzer said:


> I think it is probably OK.
> 
> You must be careful however that the temperature of the main power wires stays low, especially at the point that they enter the motor shaft.
> 200A for long is enough to melt these wires and short the controller..
> ...


The temp of controller wire is very very cold, no problem, even cable near motor is ok, only motor reach 80C on the cover at finish stress running....is too much 80C on the cover?

Thanks very much


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Other opinion? Some people have KHB?
Thanks


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Hmm, 80C is hot, but you need to know whats going on inside really. A really good idea when pushing these motors hard, is to fit a small thermostatic switch on the armature. There is plenty of room for it, the only hard part is...you need to get a pair of wires out through the axle.
You can wire this switch in series with the throttle, so it cuts out if windings reach say 120C..

You might find lots more info at the forum "Endless-Spere", there are lots more Ebike users there, and lots of tuned and tweaked X5 hubmotors too. 
Many have ventilated thier motor casings to vastly increase airflow..

Steve


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks Steve  i try to put termometer inside motor...for check better the temp.


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

How did you get on Ettore?
I am currently experiencing a similar problem with the same 2 models of controller, except that the opto-isolated controller has very poor throttle response and won't run smooth at all at low RPM..


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi sorry for late answer, im on holiday 
I have the same poor throttle response, vibrration from motor and noise with my opto-isolated khb kelly...
I use for many hours the controller now, seems the power output is ok, but yes is very noisy and non smoot, old kbl have a good throttle and smooth response... Khb NO....
I hope kelly solve this problem with new firmware soon!!


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Steve any news of your KHB controllers? You make some test?


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi, Sorry, I was on holiday for the weekend too! (Wow, Italy was cold!)

Latest news from Kelly is that they think the "high speed option" (which is a second MCU) is the cause of the problem for me, I'm going to exchange it for a normal speed version (which leaves little overhead on max rpm) and see if it does any better.
Does your controller have the "high speed" option fitted too?

Kelly are on holiday for a while..

Steve


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Mmmm i have the normal speed option, and i have the same problem


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

You go in italy? Where? I live in rome


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

My son lives up north in Piacenza, i visit regularly. I've got friends down near Rome, but don't get to visit them very often..

So perhaps the high speed option isn't to blame (sounded strange to me).

My motors gone to Sevcon for a fitting up with the new Gen4 controller, so one way or another I hope to get it running well!

Steve


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Good  if you come in Rome, call me and we can take a coffe together!
I hope kelly resolve this problem with opto-isolated controller with new software\firmware, because, yes, the controller works, but the gas-feeling is very bad, and motor become noisy, and regen works bad too!


----------



## esoria (Nov 25, 2010)

Steve any news of your controller? You solve the problem of poor throttle response on Kelly?


----------

