# Want to convert a Geo Metro



## Guest (Jul 27, 2009)

If you can go with 72 volts and 12 volt batteries and you can have decent performance for a street car and get your 5 miles you need. It won't be too heavy as you only need 6 12 volt batteries but use good ones and not the marine deep cycle batteries. A good 8" motor/adaptor should do just fine for your conversion. Clutch or no clutch is your choice. I chose clutch. Glad I did. 

Pete


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

I'd second the thought that you should really go for 76V as your base. The amount of time you'll put in will be the same but you'll have a far more practical car at the end of it.

For my firefly EV conversion (http://pontiacfirefly.com/ecarGallery/ I used 11 off 12V AGM deep cycle batteries and although you will get better distance mileage from 6V or 8v units I'd say that for your use, if you drop 3 batteries into a box under the back seat where the fuel tank used to be, and put the rest in the engine compartment, you'll be really happy and have a car you'll be proud to drive, fun to drive too!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Hmmmm, I guess that would explain why there are so many two seater conversions. I was hoping that my 3-5 mile range and not needing any performance would allow me a backseat and trunk. Unfortunately, if I can't have a trunk and backseat, my electric car would be relegated to very occasional use, and would defeat the purpose. I guess I'll just have to be happy with 40-50 mpg....


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

If you look at my pictures you'll see that I cut hole in the rear floor and set the battery box in so it sat only about 1.5 inches above the old floor, and the box hung down into the space where the fuel tank used to rest. I'd be very surprised if you can't do the same and then your rear seat will still fit OVER the box. 

My 'vert has a brace across the pan at that point and I think it would have been the rear seat support in the saloon, my box sits below the top edge of the brace, so I don't see a problem there. So I think you CAN have a rear battery box and still have a rear seat!




vpoppv said:


> Hmmmm, I guess that would explain why there are so many two seater conversions. I was hoping that my 3-5 mile range and not needing any performance would allow me a backseat and trunk. Unfortunately, if I can't have a trunk and backseat, my electric car would be relegated to very occasional use, and would defeat the purpose. I guess I'll just have to be happy with 40-50 mpg....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I have to take a closer look. It seems that the seat fits right above the gas tank, and I'd be afraid that to do a battery tray there might lower my clearance a little and it scares me to think of bottoming out the battery tray on a funky driveway..
I have to say, I admire you for all the work you put in your project; I'm afraid I'm way too lazy to do a fraction of that. I imagine I'll run into one little snag and give up on the whole thing! 
Don't we humans work better in reverse? I mean, I set up a 48v system, use it a couple months, then decide it's too weak and I need more power, then start collecting parts for a 72v system. Then maybe the 8" motor isn't big enough, so I go to a 9". Heck, I think I want to use the starter motor to get me to work one day for a starting point....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok, I have done some soul searching (and distance checking) and have decided that I needed to lower my expectations. The fact is, I get groceries a lot less often than going to work, and that's what I use my car for the most. So what I want is to replace my commuter car with an electric car; I can get groceries with my ICE. So I still MUST have a backseat and trunk. Kids need to sit somewhere, and backpacks need a home. Here's my lowered requirements, taking into account not needing to get groceries:


Top speed of 25 mph- that's the speed limit anyway


Need to go 1.4 miles on a single charge, but that's roundtrip, and I bet I can convince the school to allow charging for the 7 hours my car sits there. So actually .7 miles on a charge is absolute minimum, but I would like to be able to go the full 1.4 miles on a single charge
So, do I have a shot now, or is it still hopeless? Thanks for any and all comments....


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

Well, I set my battery box in so it's bottom was at the same height from the ground as the bottom of the old gas tank had been, so if you hit a lump big enough to smack the battery pack, you'd have damaged your fuel tank...

For what you propose/specify though a golf cart motor and controller at 48V will probably do, go talk to your local golf course, they'll be running dozens of electric carts and if the guys at my local course are anything to go by there will be one or two mechanics who are into batteries/controllers/electric motors etc. 

Good luck!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I had that thought as well. I happen to know a member of the board of our local golf course; I really need to talk to him. All I want is a glorified golf cart anyway- just to prove to myself I can do it. Once that's done, I'm sure I'll be itching to do more....
P.S.: anyone know the horsepower rating of a typical golf cart motor? 






colinmcc said:


> Well, I set my battery box in so it's bottom was at the same height from the ground as the bottom of the old gas tank had been, so if you hit a lump big enough to smack the battery pack, you'd have damaged your fuel tank...
> 
> For what you propose/specify though a golf cart motor and controller at 48V will probably do, go talk to your local golf course, they'll be running dozens of electric carts and if the guys at my local course are anything to go by there will be one or two mechanics who are into batteries/controllers/electric motors etc.
> 
> Good luck!


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

Club Car, 48v Golf Cart motor... 3.10 hp... Just go to ebay, type in golf cart motor... and also golf cart controller... Loads of examples there! The highest rating I could see was 9.0hp,


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> I would ideally like to have a range of 5 miles between charges, which would allow me to go anywhere in town, but can limit to 3 if necessary- I just couldn't get to Wal-Mart...
> I need to keep my backseat and trunk.


go with 96v worth of 8v batts.... you can have a 40 mile range and performace same/better than ICE for $8k of new parts....

visit my site in sig for details....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Actually, I visited your site yesterday and I admire your fine work as well! Anything more than a 10 mile range would be overkill for me, but maybe it would be nice to only have to charge up once a week, or once a month....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> Actually, I visited your site yesterday and I admire your fine work as well! Anything more than a 10 mile range would be overkill for me, but maybe it would be nice to only have to charge up once a week, or once a month....


thx... if you are THAT close to everything, you probably ought to just WALK.  But if you wanna go with an EV, I would keep the voltage up around 96v for reasonable acceleration. If you really don't need the range, you could save a little space, cost and weight by using smaller 12v deep-cycles.

...and don't forget, FLAs LIKE to be charged up at every opportunity... In your case it might even be possible to put a couple PV panels ON the car and trickle enough juice to make a difference.

BUT you may well find that you need more range with all the tours and joyrides you give your friends and family.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Mr. Baker,

You're absolutely right on that! I should walk, but I'm too lazy! And you'd never hear more whining than asking my kids to walk to school!
One time the battery was dead on my Metro. So I pushed it out of the driveway and started to get a good roll to pop the clutch and my daughter (8 years old) asked "Are you going to push it to school Daddy?"....
Ok, has nothing to do with building an EV, sorry....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> ...you'd never hear more whining than asking my kids to walk to school!


AHA! living proof that brainwashing is more important than batteries! I have my kids convinced that bikes are the greatest form of transportation since I can go 20 miles on one Snickers bar.... failing that, I think they are actually getting a grip on the energy it takes to move them and 2500# of car to school and back....


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> Ok, I have done some soul searching (and distance checking) and have decided that I needed to lower my expectations. The fact is, I get groceries a lot less often than going to work, and that's what I use my car for the most. So what I want is to replace my commuter car with an electric car; I can get groceries with my ICE. So I still MUST have a backseat and trunk. Kids need to sit somewhere, and backpacks need a home. Here's my lowered requirements, taking into account not needing to get groceries:
> 
> 
> Top speed of 25 mph- that's the speed limit anyway
> ...


What you are asking is very reasonable. The suggestions are to get you comparable to the ICE performance. I'm running 72volts in a Hyundai which is a bigger and heavier car than the Geo. Since the car is not operational anyway, just jump into it and do an experiment. I used an old forklift 8" motor and a kelly controller and it works just fine up to 50MPH at 72 volts. 48 volts should go 35MPH no problem. by the way where are you? I would like to buy one for your old Geo's if you have any to spare. You should be able to stuff 4* 12 volts somewhere without losing cargo space. I'm getting 20 miles range out of 12 * 6volts I managed to stuff into the engine and former gas tank space without losing trunk or rear seat. 1.7 miles isn't very far. I once went 3 miles at 30 MPH on the original starter and 1 12 volt battery when I couldn't get the engine started on a VW bug.


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

engineer_Bill said:


> What you are asking is very reasonable. The suggestions are to get you comparable to the ICE performance.


I just think that vpoppv is going to have such FUN with his electric car once he gets it on the road, (showing it off, talking to colleagues, friends, new found friends, etc etc), that for the time he is going to invest he might as well have an end product with a bit more 'get up and go'..


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

absolutely! If you're goint to invest some time and money to build an EV.... invest $8k, 150 hours and end up with a 'real' functional vehicle, not just a golf cart.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

engineer_Bill said:


> What you are asking is very reasonable. The suggestions are to get you comparable to the ICE performance. I'm running 72volts in a Hyundai which is a bigger and heavier car than the Geo. Since the car is not operational anyway, just jump into it and do an experiment. I used an old forklift 8" motor and a kelly controller and it works just fine up to 50MPH at 72 volts. 48 volts should go 35MPH no problem. by the way where are you? I would like to buy one for your old Geo's if you have any to spare. You should be able to stuff 4* 12 volts somewhere without losing cargo space. I'm getting 20 miles range out of 12 * 6volts I managed to stuff into the engine and former gas tank space without losing trunk or rear seat. 1.7 miles isn't very far. I once went 3 miles at 30 MPH on the original starter and 1 12 volt battery when I couldn't get the engine started on a VW bug.


Actually, the 3-cylinder engine is more power than I need; these things run great on 2 cylinders! I'm located in Oklahoma, smack in the center of the US! But I only have 7 Geos, so I'm unable to spare any at the moment(there are currently a couple good ones on craigslist for under $1K though) Everyone thinks I'm nuts, but I believe I won't look so foolish when gas is at $5/gallon. Sounds like I don't even need to do hardly any modifying at ALL if you can get 3 miles and 30 MPH out of a starter motor! 
The car I want to convert was actually a daily driver until I got a better one for my daily driver (and yet another since). In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to drive it across the country! These cars are so reliable. But if I don't "JUST DO IT" as Nike says, I'll NEVER find "just the right Geo" to convert. Besides, I'll get more money to fund the conversion by selling fully functional parts. Space is my biggest concern. Simplicity is a close second....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

colinmcc said:


> I just think that vpoppv is going to have such FUN with his electric car once he gets it on the road, (showing it off, talking to colleagues, friends, new found friends, etc etc), that for the time he is going to invest he might as well have an end product with a bit more 'get up and go'..


In all honesty, if it goes well, this won't be the only one I do. I'm a big fan of "a Geo for every occasion", so why not "an electric Geo for every occasion"?
Like: one for speed, one for distance, one for comfort, etc. Right now, I just want simple and WORKS.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> absolutely! If you're goint to invest some time and money to build an EV.... invest $8k, 150 hours and end up with a 'real' functional vehicle, not just a golf cart.


I'm still mourning the loss of Gavin's Tredia. I have been following his story since about when he was building the battery box. It's ridiculous because I actually got misty-eyed when it was getting hauled off! Anyway, I can EASILY see spending $8K and all those hours just to it get hauled off myself when I am done- so I'd just as soon see $2K and 100 hours hauled off instead!!


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

You could take a look at http://www.strathsteam.com/page10.html. These guys played around with low voltages and small motors and got +50km out of 6 x 8v golf buggy batteries. Your performance and range requirements are so modest they should be very easy to acheive.


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

$2k is very doable. Sams club has batteries for $68 each 6 volt 200AH. Electric motorsports has an Alltrax for $325 48Volt 300AMP. Hit a motor rebuilder or a forklift shop for a used series motor. I see them for sale on E-bay for a variety of prices. Get an 8-9" motor smaller you will need to replace it. bigger will be overkill. that size you can get more performance by overdriving it. People double or triple the rated voltage often, especially on motors that have interpoles and can be advanced on the brushes. Start with 4 or 6 batteries and see what you get. If you buy a controller that has a wide voltage range 24-72 or 48 -120volts, you can ad batteries as needed to get the performance you like.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Apparently, someone has already done a conversion with similar goals as mine: fewer batteries and smaller motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wneCRRb0Y5U&feature=channel


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> Apparently, someone has already done a conversion with similar goals as mine: fewer batteries and smaller motor:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wneCRRb0Y5U&feature=channel


oh dear lord....

Acutally, the funny part is that it's actually capable of moving the car at all.


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

I *knew* there was something funny with that electricity4gas conversion book, but I couldn't put my finger on it.... 
________
accommodation in Pattaya


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## ithinkidontknow (May 14, 2009)

Amberwolf said:


> I *knew* there was something funny with that electricity4gas conversion book, but I couldn't put my finger on it....


Just what I was thinking.. haha. You could actually probably get a few of those lithium tools and maybe some extra battery packs for 300 dollars! Maximum speed might be like 10mph and range might only be like 2 miles but it will work! 
Reminds me of this: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/28/video-top-gear-australia-electric-car-build-off-aussie-rules-s/


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## zeeman1953 (Apr 5, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> go with 96v worth of 8v batts.... you can have a 40 mile range and performace same/better than ICE for $8k of new parts....
> 
> visit my site in sig for details....


I have a Geo conversion with 96 volts using a Warp 9, a Curtis 1221 controller and 8, 12 volt Lifeline AGM batteries. All the batteries are in a welded frame anchored to the floor at the cars crossmembers. I have no back seat but it's OK for me. I have a 5 mile one way trip to work. I have a total range (so far) of 26 miles and can get to 60 mph.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

zeeman1953 said:


> I have a Geo conversion with 96 volts using a Warp 9, a Curtis 1221 controller and 8, 12 volt Lifeline AGM batteries. All the batteries are in a welded frame anchored to the floor at the cars crossmembers. I have no back seat but it's OK for me. I have a 5 mile one way trip to work. I have a total range (so far) of 26 miles and can get to 60 mph.


That'll be project #2
If I get 25mph and 5 mile range, I'll be the happiest EV'er on this site!
Do you have a website zeeman1953?


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, my first attempt at an electric powered anything was a complete waste of time and effort. I expected to learn something from buying a $75 golf cart; instead, I learned that I am a complete idiot. I think I could have done that more economically. The batteries are ugly, heavy doorstops. The Baldor motor is a big, dead, boat anchor. The cart didn't even have a single part I have been reading about: no controller, no contactor, no shunt, no gauges, no pot box. Perhaps I am too dim to use anything that doesn't rely on dead dinosaurs to run. On the plus side, I never pulled the ICE out of my Geo, so I can still use it like it came from the factory. Maybe 50 mpg isn't so bad after all....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> I expected to learn something from buying a $75 golf cart;


ya gotta commit.... $8k and 150 hours, and you'll have something very useful and fun. geo is a great donor, and LOTS of people have done it already so you know it'll work!

d


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> ya gotta commit.... $8k and 150 hours, and you'll have something very useful and fun. geo is a great donor, and LOTS of people have done it already so you know it'll work!
> 
> d


 I've decided I want to get PAID to do my conversion. Too many people have made a successful Geo Metro conversion, I think it's time I did what no one seems to be able to accomplish: an unsuccesful conversion! I've already failed at learning nothing about the golf cart though: I tore apart the motor and cleaned it up all shiny and when I put it back together it was working. I think I'm off to a bad start in failing my conversion, but I will persevere!


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

vpoppv said:


> The batteries are ugly, heavy doorstops. The Baldor motor is a big, dead, boat anchor. The cart didn't even have a single part I have been reading about: no controller, no contactor, no shunt, no gauges, no pot box.


Are the batteries just dead? Too old to revive?

Is the motor actually burned out? Or just unsuitable for your purpose?

What *does* your cart use for speed control?
________
perfect tits Cam


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Amberwolf said:


> Are the batteries just dead? Too old to revive?
> 
> Is the motor actually burned out? Or just unsuitable for your purpose?
> 
> What *does* your cart use for speed control?


Yup, been sitting for probably a decade. Not sure about motor: tore it apart, spit-shined it, put back together, worked. Certainly unsuitable for my purpose, but I'm gonna use it anyway. The cart appears to have four solenoids and some big coiled up wires between them. Being a complete electronics idiot, I can only guess it was some kind of step voltage setup. Something like maybe 0/12/24/36 volts. Or maybe it depended on the midi-chlorian content of the driver....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I made the coupler last week. Now I'm searching for the aluminum plate to make the adapter plate. I already have a template. A coworker said he might have a 16"x16" piece sitting around. If not, I was at the Payne County Fair yesterday and a booth from a railroad supply company was there and told me they could order whatever type of aluminum plate I wanted. Now, the only concern I have is the controller. I really, really, really want a 72 volt controller, but it looks like it's just not in the 0$ budget. This would be the controller I would use in my EV2 project, and I was hoping I could get it now and save me the trouble/expense later. Eh, I would probably fry it in my first attempt at an EV anyway. Even if I sold the entire donor car I wouldn't have enough $$$. I won't worry about it until I get the adapter plate finished, hopefully by next weekend. I'm sure by then someone will have an Alltrax 7245 on eBay with a Buy it Now of $99 that I just happen to see as it is listed.


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> I really, really, really want a 72 volt controller, but it looks like it's just not in the 0$ budget. This would be the controller I would use in my EV2 project, and I was hoping I could get it now and save me the trouble/expense later. Eh, I would probably fry it in my first attempt at an EV anyway. Even if I sold the entire donor car I wouldn't have enough $$$. I won't worry about it until I get the adapter plate finished, hopefully by next weekend. I'm sure by then someone will have an Alltrax 7245 on eBay with a Buy it Now of $99 that I just happen to see as it is listed.


 
I don't know about a 72v controller for $99,, Alltrax or otherwise, but there are Curtis 1209's around in the $250 range, or there abouts. I probably have 4-5 of them on the shelf


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

Go for 96 volts and at least 500 or so amps. I used 72 with my Ghia and after upgrading to 96 volts I'd say use 96 for street performance that is acceptable. 72 will just be a limit. If you never drive on the Hwy our very seldom then I'd say 72 may be adequate for your needs but having that little bit extra will really let your little car shine. Spend the money and go with 96 volts. 

Pete


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

gottdi said:


> Go for 96 volts and at least 500 or so amps. I used 72 with my Ghia and after upgrading to 96 volts I'd say use 96 for street performance that is acceptable. 72 will just be a limit. If you never drive on the Hwy our very seldom then I'd say 72 may be adequate for your needs but having that little bit extra will really let your little car shine. Spend the money and go with 96 volts.
> 
> Pete


 Did I mention I make $879/month?
I plan on running 48 volts. I never plan to go over 40 mph (unless I want to break the law) and really 25 mph would suit my needs pretty well. 72 is overkill, but I'd like to have a controller that could do it in case I find some extra room in the engine compartment....


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

I know how you feel--I make about a third of that. :roll:

As far as the voltage goes, well, I had been running my ebike on 24V, and I upped that to 36V. So far the performance difference is pretty noticeable. Zippier starts with less current draw, both very important as the idea is to keep me from having to put any load on my poor knees (especially the kind of load needed to start from a stop, with a 120 pound bike plus me and cargo). 

I didn't just change the voltage, I also changed the gearing for the motor, so that it still outputs about the same max speed to the rest of the drivetrain, but because of that it has better startup torque and gets to speed faster, and is in the high-current/low-speed region for a much shorter time. 

So now, even with less total Ah on the bike (was 2x 12v 31Ah, is now 3x 12V 17Ah) it gets better results than it did before. I have not yet tested it's full range, but I think it will probably wind up slightly better range (was 15+ miles at around 15-16mph average cruising speed including sometimes generous pedalling, is now at least 10 miles at around 17-18mph average cruising speed with no pedalling). 

I think that higher voltage, causing it to draw less amps for less time during acceleration, is combining with the Peukert effect to allow me to draw more from the lesser-capacity batteries. 

At 24V the average cruising current was at a guess 15+ amps (didn't have a way to measure exactly, as I had no meter to do that). Startup currents were enough to pop the little 25 amp breaker I had installed, if I didn't help it start by pedalling pretty hard for at least a few strokes. At 36V the average cruising current is around 6-10 amps. Startup currents are over 20 amps (HF meter now used only goes that high), but it never pops the breaker. 


So if you can do it, going higher voltage even with lower capacity cells, depending on other factors like gearing, may let you do better with less current.
________
HERBALAIRE


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Amberwolf,
I agree with you that overall, even if I don't especially need anything over 48 volts, that it would help efficiency to run higher. I don't want to get a controller that would limit that....


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> Amberwolf,
> I agree with you that overall, even if I don't especially need anything over 48 volts, that it would help efficiency to run higher. I don't want to get a controller that would limit that....


Just some observations after reading the entire thread.

For those of you calling for a high voltage solution, note that vpoppy lives in Oklahoma, where there is a state law requiring certification to do EV work above a certain voltage (84V IIRC). So stick those 96V and high aspirations on the shelf.

vpoppy can you tell us a bit about your coupler? I've been stuck in neutral for months trying to figure out how to couple my motor with a splined shaft to the tranny.

Finally I would suggest checking out your state laws. Here in Georgia, we have a requirement that a car be able to reach 55 MPH even if you never ever intend to drive it that fast. Otherwise it's classified as a NEV and has some severe restrictions on its use.

As for a controller M. Paul Holmes and a bunch of folks on EcoModder have been working on an open source controller for almost a year. Paul is selling controllers that go up to 144V for about the same price as everyone else's 72V controllers. You can catch that thread here:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/paul-sabrinas-cheap-144v-motor-controller-6404-222.html

Hope this helps,

ga2500ev


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

ga2500ev said:


> J....in Oklahoma, where there is a state law requiring certification to do EV work above a certain voltage (84V IIRC). So stick those 96V and high aspirations on the shelf.


before you give up on a 96v+ system (which certainly helps make an EV nicer to drive), can we get an actual copy of the OK law online? I would suspect that if it is like other building codes, it is fine to do the work yourself as long as it is inspected by a licensed electrician at some point.




ga2500ev said:


> vpoppy can you tell us a bit about your coupler? I've been stuck in neutral for months trying to figure out how to couple my motor with a splined shaft to the tranny.


If you are not retaining the clutch/flywheel, I have seen examples of people using the flywheel hub, cutting off most of the diameter, and welding or bolting up to the motor hub flange. Balance and alignment are critical... Personally, I LIKE having a clutch, and would be nervous about the absolutely perfect alignment you need for a solid coupler. There ARE industrial couplers that are designed to allow some misalignment that you might be able to find with the right combo of shaft and spline, or get a smooth bore and have splines broached into it by a machine shop.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

There's a thread about it here:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31786&highlight=oklahoma

Now, as for me, there is a LOCAL ordinance that allows NEV's of any type on the road. The city commision was under pressure during the gas price spike, and people were actually driving their LAWN MOWERS around! Now, I'm not certain, but I doubt those things are very efficient. In any case, this would allow me to actually dispense with registering and insuring my car, since it will be an NEV according to the ordinance. Regardless though, I will insure and register my car. I'd like to stay somewhat under the radar.

ga2500ev, I have a video of my coupler, it is a "hub" joined to the clutch plate center and the piece from the differential of my motor. I caution you though that I doubt it will stand the test of time. I wouldn't recommend anyone use this method for a coupler, but my goal is to make an EV for as close to free as possible and the hub was $5.29 or something close to that price. I have added many set screws since the video, but I think those will work their way out in short order:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmIqlzLfmiY

And on Paul's controller, while $600 is a steal for the features offered, it is still way our of budget for me. If I could find a way to get one of those Curtis 1209's that grayballs mentioned, I'd be set!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm already making money from my conversion: my wife's car blew the air conditioning belt last week. I pulled the belt out of my donor car today and installed it in my wife's car. I saved the gas from a trip to the parts store and the money for a new belt....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I feel like I accomplished something today: I connected the motor to the trans and made the wheels spin. Here's a poor quality video of the event:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZnSK4iB4NY


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2009)

Glad to see another conversion live. Poor quality is not the word for that video but I could see the wheels spin. Sounds like it's all coming apart. Damn phone's pick up and amplify everything. Sound is worse than the vid. Ouch! 

Good to here you have made progress. It only gets better. 

Pete


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Good to see the progress, well done.

I was waiting, on the video, for the 'Whoo! Whoo!' and a blast of steam from the funnel!
Maybe you could overdub with a jet engine?


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

One problem with EV's is that they are so quiet no one hears them coming. I have effectively solved that problem.
Actually, I put in the old engine mount and rigged it to work with a ziptie. Much quieter. I need to change my wheels to bicycle wheels so I can put playing cards in the spokes to make noise....


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

vpoppv said:


> One problem with EV's is that they are so quiet no one hears them coming. I have effectively solved that problem.
> Actually, I put in the old engine mount and rigged it to work with a ziptie. Much quieter. I need to change my wheels to bicycle wheels so I can put playing cards in the spokes to make noise....


Someone here had put a bicycle bell under the hood with a cable actuator, as a friendly warning to pedestrians (rather than honking the horn, I'd guess, which is rather startling). 

I decided that on my bike a bicycle bell wasn't quite enough, so I used a teletype bell.  But then, I also thought it was more interesting to use than a bike bell on a bike. 


Right at the moment, my CrazyBike2 is undergoing a mutation, and until I get the chainstays spread a tiny bit more where the tire passes between them at the front, the little ridges (where whitewall would be on some tires) around it's sidewall rub ever so slightly on the chainstay tubes, just enough to cause a really interesting "robotic motor" whine while I'm at speed going down the road. It's such a high pitch it gets dogs looking around, but people can hear it too, for at least a couple hundred yards. 

It sounds so strange, it grabs their attention. Not loud, but definitely an ear-catcher.  Wish I had a quick way to record it, but it isn't picked up right by my camera. Gotta dig out the old recording studio stuff for the computer and set it up, before I fix the problem, because it is such an odd sound.

Funny that it would sound so much like a really high speed servo motor/gearbox, because the actual motor/gearbox is nearly silent!
________
LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I have a permanent coupler and adapter plate now. I added a key to the coupler to alleviate the strain on the setscrews. The adapter plate is made of 1/2" aluminum and 1/4" steel plate. The original template I used was 1/16" steel and the coupler wasn't solidly mounted. Now that it is permanent, it is much quieter with a lot less vibration....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPzXvymeXhU


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I drove it today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w0oeUKesMQ


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

congrats!

did you stick to 72v, or risk the wrath of the DMV and go with higher voltage ? Did you re-register as an electric car, or just letting it slide.... Is there a physical inapection and/or emissions checks in OK?


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

dtbaker said:


> congrats!
> 
> did you stick to 72v, or risk the wrath of the DMV and go with higher voltage ? Did you re-register as an electric car, or just letting it slide.... Is there a physical inapection and/or emissions checks in OK?


I'm at 72v. It's still currently registered as ICE. I actually didn't think I'd get this far, so I haven't thought about it too hard. I actually know someone who works in our local office, so I'll ask her for "off the record" advice in case registering electric is a problem. As far as Oklahoma, there is no smog check, no inspection, nothing! (on ICE cars anyway.....)


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

SO what did you think of the drive? What speeds did you reach and how did the power feel?

Doesn't it feel good driving gas free!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> SO what did you think of the drive? What speeds did you reach and how did the power feel?
> 
> Doesn't it feel good driving gas free!


 It was SOOOO awesome!! I've watched dozens of videos and the remark is always made about how QUIET it is, but really, until you are IN one, you have no idea how quiet it is! Power and speed...well, I'll have to get better batteries for that! Now that it works, I might have to spend more than $56 on batteries....


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## Amberwolf (May 29, 2009)

Do you have your EVAlbum page up yet? 
________
LIVE SEX


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Amberwolf said:


> Do you have your EVAlbum page up yet?


 Ok, you convinced me... I'll get started on one...


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

I'll do a "WHOO HOO!!!!!" for you. Congratulations


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

grayballs said:


> I'll do a "WHOO HOO!!!!!" for you. Congratulations


Thank you!! 

So I went to the middle school where I work just now and I can check off one of my goals: I have the range I need! I'd like to go a little faster though. I bet that I'll be able to once I get proper welding cable throughout.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok, so I did my first actual "commute" with it this morning!! I drove it to work and back. I'm the happiest EV'er on this board right now!!!! I also took out the section of jumper cable wire that I was using with 2 awg welding cable. Now that I was less frightened that the whole thing would explode on me, I took it to 25 MPH!! So there: I have met my two goals! 25 MPH and 1.7 miles distance!!! WOOOHOOOO!!! So while messing around, I discovered I have two very weak batteries. Not that I ever managed to get any of them fully charged, but two of them are really bad I guess you get what you pay for: $7 batteries= $7 performance. LOL! I love my car


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

vpoppv said:


> Ok, so I did my first actual "commute" with it this morning!! I drove it to work and back. I'm the happiest EV'er on this board right now!!!! I also took out the section of jumper cable wire that I was using with 2 awg welding cable. Now that I was less frightened that the whole thing would explode on me, I took it to 25 MPH!! So there: I have met my two goals! 25 MPH and 1.7 miles distance!!! WOOOHOOOO!!! So while messing around, I discovered I have two very weak batteries. Not that I ever managed to get any of them fully charged, but two of them are really bad I guess you get what you pay for: $7 batteries= $7 performance. LOL! I love my car


You may be surprised what a few charge/discharge cycles can do to old batteries. You should try to fully charge the batteries, and then try an Equalization charge if your battery charger will do that.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> You may be surprised what a few charge/discharge cycles can do to old batteries. You should try to fully charge the batteries, and then try an Equalization charge if your battery charger will do that.


 Yeah, that's what I am hoping for: to kind of coax the batteries into giving a little more life. I have 6 chargers, so I'm always balanced. Here's my fear: I don't want to leave the chargers on all night in case I start to boil the electrolyte while I sleep. Of course, this is pretty much an irrational fear since these are supposed to be "smart" chargers, but I'm paranoid. In contrast, I build a deathtrap and take it to work....
Add the fact that if I DID happen to pop a battery I'd only be out $7...


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

The thing is, I think the batteries (assuming they are flooded and have caps for watering) need some "bubbling" to get back into shape.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> The thing is, I think the batteries (assuming they are flooded and have caps for watering) need some "bubbling" to get back into shape.


 Indeed! They are chirping away as we speak. I think I'll let them get a full charge tonight. They deserve it; they've been good pieces of lead....


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm green with envy. I've been thinking for the past year that I wanted to do something like this, and actually considered a Geo conversion. I've got the bug real bad now, but I'm thinking I'm going to use my 1957 Nash Metropolitan. You have been an inspiration. Congratulations!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

electromet said:


> I'm green with envy. I've been thinking for the past year that I wanted to do something like this, and actually considered a Geo conversion. I've got the bug real bad now, but I'm thinking I'm going to use my 1957 Nash Metropolitan. You have been an inspiration. Congratulations!


Well thank you!! If I can inspire just ONE person, then my efforts were a success! And you'll do a better job than me: I'm still baffled the thing moves at all!!
As for your conversion choice: that would be so awesome!!! I love the look of those cars!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

So, I have successfully used my EV all week for my commute to work!! It's everything I hoped for: replacing my daily commute with electricity. Definitely only have 5 good batteries, so I'm running 60v. I still have a few things I want to do with it, like maybe at least ONE gauge would be nice. But all in all I'm overjoyed. I took a look at my engineless 86 Corolla today, and it's looking more and more like I would like to get started on EV2 soon.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

This is the start of my third week of commuting with the electric car (minus one day where it was POURING rain!). Over the weekend I found out that my TPS is actually only going up to 1,970 Ohms. I'm a bit shocked that I can get up to 25 mph on that, but it's all I need really. I also finally put in a voltmeter. It shows 78v at the start of my commute, gets to as low as 58v while driving, and settles at 73v and climbing after the trip.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

vpoppv said:


> This is the start of my third week of commuting with the electric car (minus one day where it was POURING rain!). Over the weekend I found out that my TPS is actually only going up to 1,970 Ohms. I'm a bit shocked that I can get up to 25 mph on that, but it's all I need really. I also finally put in a voltmeter. It shows 78v at the start of my commute, gets to as low as 58v while driving, and settles at 73v and climbing after the trip.


A 72 volt EV should be able to hold 40 MPH and short bursts of 50 MPH. That's great having 3 weeks of EV driving!

Have you figured out how far you can go on a charge? 73 volts after a trip means you have a little more than 50% left in your pack, pretty good for cheap batteries!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> A 72 volt EV should be able to hold 40 MPH and short bursts of 50 MPH. That's great having 3 weeks of EV driving!
> 
> Have you figured out how far you can go on a charge? 73 volts after a trip means you have a little more than 50% left in your pack, pretty good for cheap batteries!


Well, I just threw in two "new to me" batteries last night, and those readings were with those. One of those is still charging (all the others were done charging about an hour ago) and the second one was reading 11.23v after the trip, so I don't really know what the "right" combination of batteries will give me. I did go 6 miles once with the old pack and never felt a loss in power, so I know I can go at least 6 miles! I have another battery fully charged and ready to go into the pack, so I'm doing a lot of experimenting. There's a local guy that will buy batteries for $3 each so I'm trying to test them all and I will sell him the worst ones.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

The end of my 4th week driving the EV. I feel just as giddy driving it today as I did the first day. I did have a first today: I had my wife drive it, just so I can hear what it sounds like from the outside. It doesn't sound like an electric car, just a super-duper quiet regular car. Pack was at 74.4v after the commute, lowest battery is at 12.02v. Not too shabby for used batteries I think. Even if I don't do anything else to it, it looks like it has become my perfect commuter car....


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

Congrats on your 4-week anniversary. If you continue to let your wife drive the Metro, you're going to have get in gear and finish the Toyota. You may never get to drive the Geo again.

Mike


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## oatmeal (Nov 22, 2009)

Nice to see another Oklahoman looking into ev's. I have been researching converting a geo also and think that I am going to make the jump this spring. I have a 2 mile one way commute to work so sounds like a conversion close to yours would work for me also. Some day I would love to get a look at your conversion and share ideas with you. Always nice to talk to some one who has done it and see one in person before jumping in,lol.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

oatmeal said:


> Nice to see another Oklahoman looking into ev's. I have been researching converting a geo also and think that I am going to make the jump this spring. I have a 2 mile one way commute to work so sounds like a conversion close to yours would work for me also. Some day I would love to get a look at your conversion and share ideas with you. Always nice to talk to some one who has done it and see one in person before jumping in,lol.


 You are certainly welcome to check out my car anytime! It is truly the best commute car I have ever owned. If you want to have a car done in the spring, start collecting parts now. It will take a while to find all the good places for steel plate, batteries, and what not.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Just wanted to share a little luck I had today to make up for some really bad news I got earlier. I bought this controller on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120501403293&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I received it today and replaced the 1209B that I already had, and it works great.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

vpoppv said:


> Just wanted to share a little luck I had today to make up for some really bad news I got earlier. I bought this controller on eBay:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120501403293&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> I received it today and replaced the 1209B that I already had, and it works great.


Wow, that was some deal!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Wow, I can't believe I haven't updated this thread at all in 2010! Well, not much has happened in the last 5 months with this car, except driving it every day. Luckily I have a very short commute which I think is the biggest factor in keeping this conversion in one piece. I had my doubts that a 2 hp golf cart motor would be up to the task of taking a regular sized car down the road every day, even if it IS a sub-compact. I'm still running at 72v by way of 6 used 12v batteries. I have had to replace 3 batteries over the 8 months or so I have been driving the car (one of them exploded). I still have many spares waiting when the time comes to replace more batteries, which is good because I have one that is pretty weak right now. I've taken the car up to 35 mph, but I still am limited to 1,970 Ohms with the stock TPS, so I bet I can go higher if I ever get around to installing the PB-6 I have sitting on my desk. I've driven about 175 miles so far. Now that the summer is here I'm going to focus on getting my Toyota project finished: freeway speeds under $500. Now that I know that it can be done, and can work long-term, I'm more motivated than ever! Yes, I like to take junk and make electric junk and I am PROUD of it!


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

If the electric junk does what you set out for it to do, you have a successful piece of junk.  I like what you've done and you've set a great example of what is possible for an affordable conversion. I can't wait to see the Toyota moving on electric too, keep us up to date as things move along.


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