# Electric AC compressor



## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

Has anyone here used one of these?


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## Big-Foot (Jun 8, 2008)

VERY COOL (no pun ((well okay maybe a little one)) intended)

Is it a refrigeration pump and control unit for a camper? Will it work with R12 or 134A? 

My 07 Camry Hybrid has an electric AC Compressor - but I'm thinking it would not be affordable to one of us..


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

it seems a lot of vehicles are starting to move towards electric ac compressors, so hopefully, we'll be able to start finding them in junkyards just like the electric ps pumps. I would love to have ac in my next conversion.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

speak of the devil... Prius AC compressor.. $400

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Telco said:


> Has anyone here used one of these?


Masterflux? That's what I need to be finding very soon. 

I've not driven without one in over 20 years. Summer of 86 when I bought my first brand new vehicle, a Mazda B2000 without AC, I like to died and vowed never again and I believe it was the best money I ever spent!


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

I read a conversion blog of Mazda3 where they use this baby and this guy is actually a reseller of Masterflux. But, from what I gather, this thing costs more than your motor controller, somwehere in $2000 area. Thanks, but no thanks  I'd rather use OEM compressor and the pulley on rear shaft.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> speak of the devil... Prius AC compressor.. $400
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


Hummmm nice. 07 camery hybrid. What else has electric compresor?

Looks like bob simpson is using the magniflux 
http://www.evdrive.com/BMW_project/AirConditioning.html

Anyone have a link to a pricing page on these things?


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I was told about 1300 USD. That ain't bad. If you turn your compressor at speeds of your motor, super slow to super fast, it won't cooperate very long I suspect. Besides, if you're stopped for some reason you'll have to rev the motor or you're going to heat up!


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## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

That BMW link was the link I originally saw that on, but since that was on my work computer and I've been out sick for a week, that pic was all I could come up with.

1300 bucks eh? Yerah, that's pricey. But, if it works well it might be worth the money. Problem is, the few places I've found that were using this only noted that they were using it, with no reports on the effectiveness.

I don't know about driving it off the main vehicle engine, because that would mean little to no AC in stop and go traffic, which is usually when AC is needed the most. It would be more efficient IMO to get a dedicated electric motor to drive the AC compressor separate from the main drive. This would let you get an EM that is rated to be most efficient at whatever speed the AC compressor is most efficient (which should be at whatever RPM the compressor is turning at the ICE 60MPH RPM) ad would let you run the AC when not moving. It would also eliminate any drag when the AC is not being used. The pulley clutch does NOT eliminate all drag when the compressor is not engaged, so driving the compressor with the main drive will mean there will always be a little unnecessary drag.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Fat people have to be chilled and will melt at stop lights! I've gotten to be more that way than skinny in my old age! Must be the beer but I CAN'T STOP!


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## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

I know what you mean Electricar, I'm a litle fluffy around the nether regions myself. Plus, when the wife's in the truck in the summer she doesn't like the noise of my 4/55 AC, so regular AC has to be used.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Looks like the MAsterflux guys offer both AC and DC drive motors. The DC motor voltages range from 12 to 420 VDC. I'm thinking that this system should be a lot cheaper with a DC drive that works off of pack voltage. We need to get some pricing for the compressor/drive only, running from DC... it may not be the $2k+ number.... more likely a lot lower. We'll see.


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

I would think it comes down to using the car's existing system -- including condenser, compressor, vents, controls, fans, etc. -- or cobbling something together.

If taking the first option, why not simply use the equipment you've already got and just drive it with a small 1 hp motor with a simple on/off switch ? That shouldn't cost more than $100 to fab a bracket and buy the motor/pulleys. The RPM shouldn't be a factor since the stock AC compressor isused to running at variable RPM when driven from an engine.

On the other hand, if you are cobbling something together using a different compressor, why not go whole hog and disassemble something like this:









or









Using a cheap cigarette lighter inverter to go from the system's 12V to 110V AC ?

If these things can cool a 300sf room in a house, they should be ample to cool the interior of a vehicle, right ? The second unit pictured is a 12,000BTU unit and weighs 66lbs. If I was building a custom scratch vehicle, I can imagine it forming the center of my dash


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I've read an auto AC is about 60000 btu and takes about 5hp to drive it. A 5hp motor is going to be a little heavy. 

With the factory unit I'd have to have room and time to fabricate brackets for the motor, compressor and some type tensioner to keep the belts tight. I just figure an integral system like the Magnaflux would be a lot neater looking, take a ton less time and with it's control system I think it would be much more energy efficient as well, something we can't get enough of.

And you're only going to get about 280 watts out of your cigarette lighter. It's fused at 20A. 1 HP is 746 watts.


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## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

I don't think an auto AC is 60,000 BTUs, that's quite a bit. Large RV units are only 15,000BTU and will cool a 30 foot RV. And, that AC unit that Dreamer posted has been used very successfully by ******** everywhere to cool their cars. 

Using a home AC unit is something I've explored doing as well. But, rather than design around a unit made to fit into a window, what I'd do is have the freon drained, break the unit down, then modify it to fit into the existing system. The only thing you really need is the control system and the parts that actually have freon flowing through them. You'd need to beef up the 3/16 in diameter lines because the home unit isn't designed to handle road vibration. About the only way you could use the unit just as the box is if you had a pickup with bucket front seats and no back seats because you could cut the cab wall out in the back and build a shelf off the cab to support the unit. Or better than that, build the shelf so the unit is carried on the frame directly with a heavy duty rubber seal so unit vibrations would not be carried into the cab. 

The main issue with just strapping an electric motor to the factory compressor is that in reality the factory compressor is way too large and powerful for the car. It has to be, because it has to be effective at any speed from idle to redline. With an electric motor the AC compressor is no longer dependent upon engine RPM to turn, so it can be set to spin at the most efficient RPM, which means you don't need nearly as large a unit. The oversized unit means an oversized motor would be needed to drive it. I imagine you could cool a Chevrolet Suburban with a Chevy Colbalt-sized compressor if it were on an electric motor that always turned the compressor at its most efficient speed. If you are cooling a small car, a very tiny compressor would do the job.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

OK, here's the poop on it.... Masterflux doesn't sell direct. They recommended a couple of part numbers for items bases on my description of what I need. DC drive off of pack voltage is the way to go. Aaron at Revolt had this very nice and detailed message to me.

Hi Gary,

I would suggest the SIERRA06-0982Y3 as well.

 
 *BTU/hr* *Watts* *Amps* 3,909 15,170 388 1,830 2.60 6.10
To go with that, you have a choice of two controllers. They are the same price. You can choose to size it to just barely above your pack voltage with the 115-325 VDC controller or give yourself some headroom with the 120-420 VDC Controller. Here are some numbers:

SIERRA06-0982Y3 (bare tube) -- $488.75 ($546.25 for SAE #8 and 10 fittings)
CONTROLLER, *120-420VDC* -- $592.54
WIRING HARNESS COMPRESSOR TO CONTROLLER -- $25.30
LOOSE PARTS ASSEMBLY (rubber mounting feet) -- $1.32
HID kit (030A0043) -- $46.81 (Human interface kit for testing)

Add shipping and whatever additional issues are involved at the border

Lead times can be up to 10-12 weeks depending on Masterflux's stock. but, they usually deliver faster than that.

We used the stock parts in our Saturn conversion with a similar setup and it has worked out well. We usually ask Masterflux to deliver the compressor with an 8 and a 10 (SAE) fitting on its ports so that all we have to do is get a local AC rebuilder to weld the appropriate fittings on our existing hoses. We can have your hoses fitted if you need that assistance and can send them to us.

The compressor requires a different lubricant than typical automotive AC units so we flush our AC systems. One of the generic kits from the local autoparts store worked fine for us. I don't recall the manufacturer but it was an all in one product that came with a can of compressed air with the flush and a little hose and rubber fitting to put in the component that we were flushing. It doesn't take much. The can had the instructions for use on it. I'm assuming that you have removed/reclaim the refrigerant from the system before you are doing this. We usually have an AC repairman we know do that step for us.

The compressor comes from the factory with PVE oil to account for itself. We had the OEM service manual for the Saturn and calculated the requirement for the rest of the system (hoses and exchangers and such) and fed that in when we installed the compressor. We can provide a small quantity for this purpose if you need.

One other thing that we try to mention to potential clients is that the compressor control board and heat sink comes bare. You will need to work out how to protect it from the elements (a simple box should do) while still allowing for it to get air cooling on its heat sink. You have two options on the heatsink. One is "flush" with the electronics board and the other comes with a flange. It will depend on your desired box style as to which style you end up ordering.

Cheers,

So, about $1100 to $1200 depending on options. I have inquired about volume discounts. I will keep you all updated.

Gary


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Everybody,

When you are sizing up your compressor/condenser/evaporator. don't forget one thing that has not been mentioned. The HUGE heat load the system often has to handle due to the interior being a small enclosed metal box with large glass area, exposed to direct sunlight all day. Then you get in and want to drive away . . . and Be Cool.

The RV and home systems mentioned do usually have much better working conditions. Better insulation and considerably less glass area per cubic foot of area to be conditioned. They also aren't expected to drop temperatures instantantly.

Having an A/C system that keeps you a comfortable 78° inside when the temp is 85° outside is one thing. That same system trying to keep you alive in 110°F temps with 85% humidity with the sun shining down on all of that metal and glass is another thing.

Remember, if your are going to haul the extra weight and load of an A/C system around when you really don't need it, make sure it will do the job when you do need it. The OEM systems engineers made the system to work in almost every concievible circumstance. 

If you are willing to not drive during those extreem days, OK go with a smaller system. Otherwise trust those guys in the shops who have been building cars for 100 + years.

You can probably size down a small amout due to the advantage of a constant rpm, but you still have to cycle the system anyway. You just might as well be sure the system will handle everything from dehumidifying air that is 50° and wet to cooling an interior from 150° to 80° in a short time.

Just My Thoughts.

Hope they help,


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Good points Jim, 

The unit referred to in my correspondence above is sized for my extended cab truck...and likely will work for small cars. Ask them for any differences required.

G


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## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

Yep, that's the trick, knowing how to size when engine RPM is no longer a variable. On what Jim's saying, even though an automobile is a metal box with a lot of glass, it's still a very small area. A Nissan Altima, which is a pretty large car, only has 100 cu ft to cool. Plus there are things that can be done to minimize heat absorpsion inside the vehicle like tinting the glass or adding insulation. If you really wanted to, you could also add a very small solar panel that runs an electric fan to keep the interior ventilated when the car's parked in the sun. Mazda used to do this on the 929, they had a solar panel made as the trim ring to the sunroof, and that ran a fan that sucked something like 60 cf ft/min through the interior. If you attack it as a whole problem, a smaller AC can be made to work very well. Jim is right in pointing out that you want the system oversized enough to manage what would be the hottest load you can expect, which would be maximum number of passengers on a 120 degree day.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Excellent points Telco, I agree.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

BTW....
The dual numbers are the min and max voltage performance on the unit. So, if you are feeding the compressor with its min rated voltage, you can only expect it to produce about 3900 BTU/hr of cooling. If you feed it with its max, you can expect it to produce up to 15,170 btu/hr. See below.....

*BTU/hr* *Watts* *Amps* 3,909 15,170 388 1,830 2.60 6.10
Other comment from Aaron.....

The last bulk deal we did with Masterflux the price break was at 25 units. If you have an idea as to the numbers that you could put together, I can query them.

Perhaps, I will tell him 10 units to see what he can do.

G


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

all good points . we have the advantage of no 500,000 btu inferno ( engine ) in front of us utterly, bathing us in heat . the solar fan would have huge effect on comfort , energy saving , interior outgassing and aging . i love big fast working ac because i work out side , get over heated and need fast cool down ( Sacramento 110 d.f. )


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

I thought I read somewhere the Prius compressor is completely self contained and runs off the DC pack. I'll have to research this again but I've seen these on ebay for 200-400 bucks. My only concern was the plumbing it get it connected to my existing evap and condensor. I'm not sure how to go about that part.

UPDATE:
Ugh, maybe not. Looks like you need multiple pieces. It's 3 phase AC.


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## E DAKOTA (Mar 13, 2009)

The Chevy Tahoe also has a electric a/c compressor, however it to is 300volt ac.


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## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

bblocher said:


> My only concern was the plumbing it get it connected to my existing evap and condensor. I'm not sure how to go about that part.


This is actually the easy part of it. It's a simple matter to visit a local AC shop to have new lines made to connect the parts. Cost for this should be less than 100 bucks for all new custom hoses. Some NAPA shops can also make them up for you, so long as you know how long a hose you need and what kind of fittings.


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## speculawyer (Feb 10, 2009)

Are there any heat pump systems so people could do both AC & heating with one system?


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

speculawyer said:


> Are there any heat pump systems so people could do both AC & heating with one system?


speculawyer,

Since heat is so easily available on an ICE I doubt if any OEM has ever developed anything. Maybe now that all electrics are in the future we will see something.

A thought . . . Maybe something has been done in the heavy truck area for sleeper cabs.


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## wljohns (Mar 26, 2009)

Prius runs on 44v. According to my B&L which is a Synergy Drive ASE certified Master Lexus Tech.
I dont remember AC or DC. I will ask tomo.


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## Matthijs (Jun 19, 2009)

Can you use this system if you need an A/C in your electric car? The price is lower than anything I have seen so far. US * $ 470~500*
It is about time more of these systems are available to the consumer. 

They also have a lot of other nice products for EV conversions. http://rebeck.en.alibaba.com/search/product?IndexArea=product_en&SearchText=motor

Edit: Or something like this. Is this a heatpump for cooling and heating? http://rebeck.en.alibaba.com/product/205041617-200269143/AC_Compressor.html


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## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

You could possibly convert you're auto ac to a heatpump by installing a reversing/3-way valve. Might have to change controls around a bit. The reversing valve is controlled by a small solenoid valve. Some times it takes activating the solenoid for cooling, sometimes you power the solenoid for heat. All it really does is reverse the condenser and evaporator. You would need the 2 flow check pistons, they open or close (one is opposite the other) for full flow, or metering.


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