# budget VW build / Question



## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

Hello everyone,
My conversion is a 1970 VW Bug that i got out of a field for $60. It had to motor and no interior so that made preparation easy. I bought a Yale forklift from a business friend for $300 with a bad battery, so that supplied most of my electronics. There were two pump motors that i was able to remove so i made the adaptor plate to match these motor rather then the drive motor. The drive motor was to heavy for my application. I made the coupler out of some tool steel on my grandfathers lathe and welded in the splines from a vw clutch disk. im running 6 180AH 12v NAPA Deep cycle batteries. The controller is a GE EV-100. The car will travel at 40Mph on flat ground and the longest i have gone on a sigle charge is only 11 miles due to the hills around my home. This brings me to my question. The ev-100 Controller is rated up to 80VDC and 900Amps. Its running 72v now and i have it limited to 300amps. due to the hills in this area ( Grass Valley, CA) i would like to add one more battery to bring it to 84v. My question for you is do you think it will Damage my controller? or sence my wattage (84v at 300amps) will still be well below what the contoller is capable of (80v at 900amps) will it be okay?

Thank you for your time and i would love to hear any comments or criticism
-Jon


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

I have no idea of what your equipment is capable of, but as in most things....they have a safety margin built in.

I guess it depends on if you feel lucky or not.

EXAMPLE: I have a motor/controller system that is rated at 72-96 VDC. People are running them at 120VDC and they seem to do fine. As a matter of interest, the motor is "said" to survive 144 Volts. 

I dont know how large of a margin is built into your stuff. But...If it were mine, that 1 more battery would have been in it already....

Miz


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

If you're rated at 80, you're almost certainly fine at 84. I would try to find the internal specs to know how far you can go. My curtis is rated at 120, but the internals are spec'd at 160, so I feel safe running 132.


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## yosemitesamiam (Feb 7, 2012)

Is it this controller?

http://www.fsip.biz/Documents/EV100LX Instructions with EV200 Supplement.pdf

If so here is an 80+ page manual for download. 

Sam


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## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

Great, thats exactly what i was wondering. Thanks for the imput. Yea i have that manual. Thanks for finding it for me tho. - jon


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2012)

MX,

I can help you if you need some help and I am just down the hill from you in Marysville. Your welcome to come on over and swap information. I can help you fix VW stuff too. I am an old VW nut. We are working on a cool Bug Roadster project and it should be on the road soon. I am finishing the brakes right now. Waiting for the caliper pads from the company. New master cylinder too. 

Pete


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

Looks like a cool build. I have found several VW's on CL locally in the $500 range still looking to see if I can find that "close to free" one . Do you have any idea what the weight of the car is currently?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I would recommend against finding a close to free bug. How many repairs will it need to be a good vehicle? The vehicle being the most important part of EV, I don't think that's where you want to skimp. Now, if you happen to find one that cheap in excellent condition, great!


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## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

I havent had the car to a scale but i read somwhere that the 70 bug was around 2100 pounds. - 200 for the engine + 70 ( motor) and + 350 ( batteries) puts the car somewhere around 2320lbs. I think. As far as cheap Vws, there are a lot of good ones out there for a few hundred dallors. But there are a ton too that are compleate junk. Im sure you'll find the right deal, there are so many out there.


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## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

gottdi said:


> MX,
> 
> I can help you if you need some help and I am just down the hill from you in Marysville. Your welcome to come on over and swap information. I can help you fix VW stuff too. I am an old VW nut. We are working on a cool Bug Roadster project and it should be on the road soon. I am finishing the brakes right now. Waiting for the caliper pads from the company. New master cylinder too.
> 
> Pete


Thanks for the offer!!


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

Found a 70 bug on CL locally for $250 just missing engine if I get it Ill be following your progress closely  Found a Motor its a surplus aircraft starter from a guy that builds EVs for $150 may or may not buy it. Ok sorry to hijack if I get the car Ill start my own thread


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## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

Junkman said:


> Found a 70 bug on CL locally for $250 just missing engine if I get it Ill be following your progress closely  Found a Motor its a surplus aircraft starter from a guy that builds EVs for $150 may or may not buy it. Ok sorry to hijack if I get the car Ill start my own thread


No by all means Please hijack. That'll be really convienent that it already has the motor taken out. Where are you located?


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

Im in AZ. I have an 8 mile commute to work each way straight line no hills so this will be a good test to see how many trips I can get on a charge. Id like to see 45mph. I was originally going to try and use some SLA batteries for aircraft that are 28v 20Ah because I can get them for free, but now I may try and go with 10 12v deep cycle LA batteries depending on weight. Id love to go Li but this is more of an experiment for me.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

Junkman said:


> Found a 70 bug on CL locally for $250 just missing engine if I get it Ill be following your progress closely  Found a Motor its a surplus aircraft starter from a guy that builds EVs for $150 may or may not buy it. Ok sorry to hijack if I get the car Ill start my own thread


Do you happen to have a photo of the Aircraft Starter you mentioned? Be sure you rebuild your brakes for the Bug. That is paramount. Clean up all the gunk on and around the transmission. Change out the Transmission mounts. There are three. 

Pete 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXkijd6_ECQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UtQuiiWAks
http://www.youtube.com/user/gottdi/videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBCx7VUmQYI
http://www.youtube.com/user/onegreenev/videos


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

Ill get a picture of it posted tomorrow. I was skeptical about the power of the motor but the guy assures me he has built EV's using the same type motor. I still have to do some research before I buy. Im trying to do this on the cheap like I said its an experiment and a learning process for me. I actually want to try and make a speed controller that is more old school using contactors and a pot. I know its antiquated but for me its just a fun thing to see if I can do it the way it might have ben done before all the solid state electronics were invented.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

I have a manual contactor switch in my Cushman Truckster. Low voltage system but it still works. Three speeds. You can do it but why? I know you say to see but that is just going backwards and I can assure you it is clunky and not very elegant. With a modern speed controller you have nice smooth acceleration and you can actually get more out of your battery than with a standard ON/OFF switch. If you go with a very low voltage setup you can do OK with a manual contactor but it will still be clunky. I saw a guy at one of the recent VW Shows with an electric Buggy with one of the starter generators like in my videos and he had it setup with 72 volts and one speed. On or Off. It ran quite well but you have no control of the speed except to feather the clutch or just coast or all the way ON. Not a way to go in my opinion. 

Yes you will be able to do it. 
Recommended? NO. 

I'd not recommend Lead Acid batteries either. Been there done that. First conversion was a 64 Ghia with lead acid. 

Lead Acid batteries suck. Period. 

Pete


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

mx490 said:


> No by all means Please hijack. That'll be really convienent that it already has the motor taken out. Where are you located?


MX,

Don't expect to find that perfect Bug around these parts any more. You may get lucky and find one for $2K but it would still need lots of work. I recommend you save some bucks and start putting a list of items you'd like for a budget Bug. Keep looking for one. Don't worry if it has an engine. If it runs that is even better. If it runs and drives and you can drive it home you will be better off than finding some POS that needs fully rebuilt after you get it home and the person you purchased it from assures you that it will only be a few hundred to get it back on the road. Don't go for that. It total bull. If you have one in mind and want me to have a look at the ad and maybe even call the person I'd be happy to help you out. I am always on the hunt for VW's. Mostly Ghia's and Busses but Bugs will do in a pinch. Much of the good stuff is pretty much gone. Not all but you'd be hard pressed to find a cheap and GOOD $250 VW BUG. That is a thing of the past. 15 years ago, yes. Today, not a chance. 

If the Bug you find runs well you can sell the motor for at least $500 if its clean and does not smoke. Mine will be sold for $800 turnkey. I'll use the $800 towards some A123 Cells. 

Pete


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

This is about what you get in our area for $800 and I have seen worse for more. 

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/2849765957.html


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

Pete thanks for the advice Im sure you are right having done it already. I was just thinking I could build a Pot type speed controller based on a large controller that you see on old power supplies in aviation that have high voltage and amperage ratings not merely an on off switch. I will more than likely go with a modern controller from a forklift.
As far as the cheap bugs go out here you have your mix of overpriced junk and decent priced cars in "OK" shape. The one I found is "ok"

Joe


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

A rheostat type switch which will give you some control is still an ON/OFF switch. You have no control of the voltage. It's on or off. It varies the speed by reducing the amperage to the motor but the excess not used by the motor is burned off as heat and that rheostat MUST be able to do the job or it will burn up. Some use lead acid batteries and a switch type setup that will use like one battery for low, two for medium and the rest for high. The problem there is that the batteries become badly out of balance. This is how my Cushman Truckster is set up. Two batteries added in for each step in speed. Not a good way unless I always go fast. If I go slow I can drain on set of batteries quickly. My setup however uses a charger that will charge two batteries at a time. It is a multi bank charger so each bank gets the proper charge to keep the batteries balanced but over time the ones that are used for slow speeds will die first. Then you just rotate them out of the vehicle and add the new ones to the High speed circuit. For a small vehicle like this it is an easy thing to do. In a car its not so easy. 

I'd stick with a real speed controller. 


http://www.tedss.com/rheostat/


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## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

thanks for all the info pete. ive allready got my bug converted and been driving it to work a few times now so im not in the market for a bug anymore. thanks for finding that one tho. 

@junkman im running lead acid batteries in mine and i think LA will be great for you with a 8 or 16 mile commute. if cost wasnt a factor i would run lithium batteries for sure.... but money is a issue so LA is good for me


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

Do you have photos of your build and full specs?


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

SO do you think the EV-1 controller will do the job? It seems like the best "low budget" alternative and they are faily readily available.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

It is usable for the low voltage systems. Don't over volt the controller and if you have a good running controller it will work. If you want speed then you will need to use gearing to help. That means a Freeway Flyer or one where you actually change the Ring and Pinion Gear. The Freeway flyer if its a good one will change 3rd and 4th so you can drive faster at lower rpm's. Perfect for an electric motor. 

If your transmission is old but working you might consider keeping the clutch setup. The lower the voltage your system the greater need to use the transmission. 

Just a thought.

You might consider building a smaller EV like a Bicycle or Motor Cycle then move up to a Car. I can guarantee you that you will want much more once you see how cool and fun they are to drive. 

I'd save your money and build a good one from the beginning. One that will do freeway and maybe even peal a bit of rubber from the tires. Do you really want a BIG golf cart or a CAR. 

Pete


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

mx490 said:


> thanks for all the info pete. ive allready got my bug converted and been driving it to work a few times now so im not in the market for a bug anymore. thanks for finding that one tho.
> 
> @junkman im running lead acid batteries in mine and i think LA will be great for you with a 8 or 16 mile commute. if cost wasnt a factor i would run lithium batteries for sure.... but money is a issue so LA is good for me


My bad, the first post has that info. I would not over volt the controller.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

MX, 

Your going to tax that pump motor a bit for your build. Can't you get that drive motor out? The larger drive motor will give more torque and you will have the larger motor that can handle more power when your ready to upgrade which you will do. 

Pete


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## Junkman (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info Im sure I will have plenty more questions as time goes by. 
I actually have a minibike frame and was thinking of using a automotive starter motor and 28v aircraft battery to build a electric bike.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

That would work. Easy to do and something to have fun with when done. Be sure to paint your little mini if you go that route to make it look real nice. The better it looks the more impressive it will be. Even for a little mini bike.


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## mx490 (Nov 18, 2011)

gottdi said:


> MX,
> 
> Your going to tax that pump motor a bit for your build. Can't you get that drive motor out? The larger drive motor will give more torque and you will have the larger motor that can handle more power when your ready to upgrade which you will do.
> 
> Pete


Yea the drive motor was to big for my bug. Best i could tell it weighed arounnd 400 pounds and i didnt feel like making motor mounts and doing suspension work. Also the pump motor does everything i need it to now. But someday i would like to do a faster build


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