# Tesla CEO Promises Profitable Year Despite Troubles



## rudy (Feb 15, 2009)

something unpleasant about tesla ceo..


----------



## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

> Despite all the hype around Tesla, it has so far delivered only 200 Roadsters and has been losing money. Still, Mr. Musk insisted that the Roadster business will also be profitable by the summer. Though some people have canceled their orders because of financial difficulties, Mr. Musk said Tesla has orders for 1,000 more cars and a wait list through November.


I don't agree with the writer saying "only 200 Roadsters". Tesla is the only company mass producing an electric car (non NEV) right now, and I think they should be applauded (or at least not ridiculed) for that.


----------



## rudy (Feb 15, 2009)

but he says that there is a years waiting list. So factor in how many cars tesla can produce in a yr and it doesnt add up to huge demand. The technology is too expensive for credit crunch times...unless the new saloon can be bought for $35,000..


----------



## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

rudy said:


> but he says that there is a years waiting list. So factor in how many cars tesla can produce in a yr and it doesnt add up to huge demand. The technology is too expensive for credit crunch times...unless the new saloon can be bought for $35,000..


The people buying the $109k sports car version probably aren't too affected by the credit crunch. There are still plenty of millionaires out there to get Tesla through the tough times.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

ClintK said:


> The people buying the $109k sports car version probably aren't too affected by the credit crunch. There are still plenty of millionaires out there to get Tesla through the tough times.


lol I'm sure the volume is a lot smaller than you imagine.

Every day obama's been in office the market's been suffering. Buying a $109k car in a time like that isn't a wise investment.

The DJIA has broken the barriers set last october pre-election... based upon the horrible stimulus plan obama is trying to press though.

It's moved the market to near 50% levels (and this rate it will probably reach them).


----------



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

ClintK said:


> I don't agree with the writer saying "only 200 Roadsters". Tesla is the only company mass producing an electric car (non NEV) right now, and I think they should be applauded (or at least not ridiculed) for that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Triac on sale now?


----------



## rudy (Feb 15, 2009)

Tesla are not a good investment. Obama wants to be launching a new company using viable technology and regenerating detroit. The suppliers are all going bust anyway because no ones buying


----------



## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

rudy said:


> Tesla are not a good investment. Obama wants to be launching a new company using viable technology and regenerating detroit. The suppliers are all going bust anyway because no ones buying


Unless you're a truck driver, a vehicle is never an investment. A sports car is just something to be enjoyed. 

I'll refrain from my opinions on the federal government / union controlled companies to avoid another flame war.


----------



## rudy (Feb 15, 2009)

Investment meaning the $350 million that Tesla CEO has implied will recieve in 3 months from US government

Strange as he also impies that they have huge investors and he has a personal fortune. And they cannot even deliver cars with the proper battery packs


----------



## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

rudy said:


> Investment meaning the $350 million that Tesla CEO has implied will recieve in 3 months from US government
> 
> Strange as he also impies that they have huge investors and he has a personal fortune. And they cannot even deliver cars with the proper battery packs


Care to point out a company with a better battery pack? The Roadster has far more range than anything else out there. There's even a foreign company planning on using Tesla's tech for their small car. What's the name...oh yeah, Daimler.


----------



## rudy (Feb 15, 2009)

I just spent $110,000 on a car and i shouldnt complain about the lower spec because its still better than the cheaper competition 

Planned not signed


----------



## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

What lower spec? What competition? The only other all-electric sportscars you may be able to put money down on today are more expensive and haven't even been built.


----------



## rudy (Feb 15, 2009)

You mentioned that the battery packs are better than the competition now you you say there is no competition..

There is no deal with Daimler only speculation


----------



## icebeater (Jan 21, 2009)

Tesla's CEO has said the cells they're currently using aren't ideal for EV's (2009 detroit motor show.) Musk apparently said they'd ideally use larger format cells (didn't say "more stable" but maybe he should have.) IMO, Tesla has put their battery R&D investment into the wrong place. They should have been figuring out how to manufacture LiFePo4 EV cells while they were instead over-engineering an elaborate water-cooled housing for potentially explosive laptop batteries. Next to batteries like the one Techno just imported, the Tesla pack and its gazilion cells is going to start to look silly fast. 

200 cars shipped in how many years by how many people? Not exactly mass produced. As far as I know, Tesla recently ramped down from 600 to 300 FTE's and those people don't build the car. Gliders come for the EU and the car's assembled in the boxster plant. The Tesla's waiting list is famous but it just grows - they really need to figure out how to speed up production in 2009. The $350M loan is going to help but it'll be interesting to see if they can figure out "mass" production on the $60,000 car when they've failed so badly with the roadster.

I think Tesla's done a lot right i.t.o. marketing and I think their market entry strategy with a limited production high end sports car was strategically brilliant. Tesla's probably partially responsible for my EV obsession but a company that's so wasteful and unimaginative in their engineering and customer service leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

icebeater said:


> Next to batteries like the one Techno just imported, the Tesla pack and its gazilion cells is going to start to look silly fast.
> .


Indeed... my 288wh $99 lifepo cell is certainly ahead of what they're doing by a long shot


----------



## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

rudy said:


> You mentioned that the battery packs are better than the competition now you you say there is no competition..
> 
> There is no deal with Daimler only speculation


I should have said "which" competition. I didn't mean to imply they faced none. 
There is a deal with Daimler.


----------



## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Technologic said:


> Indeed... my 288wh $99 lifepo cell is certainly ahead of what they're doing by a long shot


288 wh/kg LiFePo4? 99$ Sounds a little too good to be true. Who makes those? That would be about 50% ahead of pretty much everybody.


----------



## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

drivin98 said:


> 288 wh/kg LiFePo4? 99$ Sounds a little too good to be true. Who makes those? That would be about 50% ahead of pretty much everybody.


It appears to be thundersky (rebranded as sky energy)... I didn't say WH/kg as the battery weighs about 2.5kg for a 288wh capacity.

However it IS $99... for small quantities... initial power testing (charging) so far is just fine..

I've been told for over 500 pcs I could do $90 or around 30cents/WH capacity...

Making the Tesla battery pack cost around $16k dollars... with a cycle life or something like 1500-2000 to 80% DOD.

I'll be updating the forum with real tests once my battery analyzer comes... that way I can have full data for each cycle  including voltage drop etc.

Feel free to check it out in the battery forum here... all of the information is there.... the battery did arrive as well for sampling at the $99 price


----------



## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Technologic said:


> It appears to be Thundersky (rebranded as sky energy)... I didn't say WH/kg as the battery weighs about 2.5kg for a 288wh capacity.


They may just have some of the battery cases in common with Thundersky. Sharing dies to reduce costs perhaps. Great find by the way. I hope they work out.




Technologic said:


> Making the Tesla battery pack cost around $16k dollars... with a cycle life or something like 1500-2000 to 80% DOD.


Tesla's battery reportedly costs them around $20k so that is sort of in the same ball park. They supposedly don't use LiFePO4 for energy density reasons. It would be interesting to compare that. Doing a large parallel series battery like Tesla have done is less than ideal. A simple series string would be better but much larger cells would be required. If memory serves me correctly the cells used in the tesla pack weigh about 350kg bare, with the BMS, containment, and cooling system this becomes about 450kg.


----------



## drivin98 (May 9, 2008)

Technologic said:


> It appears to be thundersky (rebranded as sky energy)... I didn't say WH/kg as the battery weighs about 2.5kg for a 288wh capacity.
> 
> However it IS $99... for small quantities... initial power testing (charging) so far is just fine..
> 
> ...


I used the per kilogram just because that's how energy density is usually measured. They sound pretty decent though if it is 113 wh/kg, While it might cost just under $16,000 to match the 53kWh of the Roadster pack, the added weight would also have to be taken into consideration. The advantage your batteries have is cycle life. In the Roadster application though, the buyers are more concerned with performance . Of course, your batteries have a better price point (Although I suspect Tesla doesn't pay much more than that, despite what they say in public) but the difference to those buyers isn't enough to sacrifice the performance gained by the Tesla pack.
All that is not to say I particularly like the Tesla solution. I wonder if Altairnano might not have been the way to go since, although they have half the energy density, greater depth of discharge could make some of that back as well as the need for a lot simpler and lighter BMS package with its cooling and heating requirements. They addition of true fast charge and incredible cycle life would be huge pluses as well. Hopefully, the Lightning GT or some other sports car going the Altairnano route will shed light on which set up is more preferable.

For us mere (read poor) mortals you LiFePo4s sound great and I hope to read about your results.


----------

