# generator only? no battery pack



## theRightNee (Jul 13, 2008)

since it seems to me that the battery pack is one of the most expensive components in an EV, is it possible to create one that derives its power from a gasoline generator? is this cost effective? thanks!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

well, lets say you draw 200A at 144V cruising in a car (might be a little high, but assume +/- 20%). Thats 28,000W per hour. Generators are rated in Watts produced in one hour. So you'd need something between 25kW and 30kW. Its not small, its not quiet and its going to weigh alot. Pricing is going to start around $8000 for a used diesel. It won't fit in a car, but might fit in a truck. They start around 1100lbs. The extra weight would make it about as efficient as a high mpg car.


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## LeTank (Jun 24, 2008)

Well, a small generator will give you some replentishment of Amps, but going with a simple step up convertor or transformer will give you less batteries to make up the higher voltage. However, you will still need your Amps, which looking for those batteries that give you more Amps per battery is the answer.

I found a few. 
A 2400 Amp battery by Kinetic.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7344_Kinetik+HC+2400.html#

And BatCap has a few better ones with better warrantees:
The model number is 8400
*12volt, 9600 AMPS!! Now that is cool. 
**Dimensions - 12.5 x 9.5 x 9 * 
*Size And Weight - 70 Pounds * 
*Amp Information * 
*12 Volt - 9600 Amps * 
*14 Volt - 9600 Amps * 
*16 Volt - 8400 Amps* 
*Website is:*
http://www.lightav.com/car/batcap/batcap.html

Well you have choices, but for the better bang for the buck, less batteries and saves you money is trying out even audio sound batteries, which they say can take a beating and keeps on ticking. Extended life, high drain, even swamp it out to zero and it will not even phase it. 

I am surely going to try these. Same weight as most other batteries, but more Amps. That makes me smile. =)


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

LeTank,
first off, Transformers don't work with DC, so you can't increase the voltage with a transformer.... and a step-up switching converter for a 12V to 144V (or more) is going to be expensive. Plus with the current you 'speculate' you can achieve, is going to be very bulky, and give off lots of heat.

Next off, those batteries 2400A is Cold Cranking Amps, and only lasts a few seconds. Not continuous. Batcap is made to go in parallel to a battery... same as a cap bank. It is not a battery from what I can tell. Its a capacitor.

The other is a high Cranking amp battery, the 2400 is a 128Ah battery...

http://www.kinetikaudio.com/manuals/khccells.pdf

so, 128Ah, it could provide 2400A for a very VERY small amount of time (less than 30 seconds... if that). Its not a 2400A battery, as we've already explained to you in another thread LeTank.

Keep it on topic...


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## Bugzuki (Jan 15, 2008)

You would still need the battery. If you do not have the battery as Fordus says you would need a generator that could handle the max power you will need. So, your generator will be big enough to handle going up a mountain pass all day long.

Otherwise you can get a smaller generator - that would fit in the car - maybe 10KW and then a battery to store the power for when you need it.

The answer is that you probably need some form of battery. If you have a generator the battery could be a lot smaller, but you still need one.


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## LeTank (Jun 24, 2008)

Surely that was the point, a battery would be needed and I agree.
However, Coley, it is easy to make a converter or buy one that is fairly cheap, I don't know what you read in the past. 
To convert DC to DC 12 volt to 120/170/220 volt is easy, in fact you make one small enough that will fit in a small 7 inch box. Heat, well heat is always going to be there, but the heat will hardly be hot enough to even worry about. You can touch it with your hand. 
There are currently tons of DC to DC converters on the market. Do a search and see. You can buy all sizes and voltages. 

When you are talking about converting 12v DC to say 5Kv then you have a much larger application and more heat to the ratio. 

The batteries are chemical batteries, a new application and they do hold Amps for extreme amounts of time. Cranking means on demand. However, you have that holding reserve (some lower models even say 200 reserve minutes) which if you researched them a bit more you can add up your a/h, but you still have to computate your drain as you drive. 
However, so far, I have not seen anyone use these batteries in an EV, but I am as always willing to try something new. With any electricity, Amps are only distributed in the amounts that is required by the oject using it, it is used as the electric motor needs it. The rest just sits there and is not dumped into your motor all at once. Cranking Amps has that advantage of putting out the Amps as they are in demand for large quantities. 
The batteries listed do not have to use or hook up to any other battery. They are self sustained batteries, but their main design was for hooking up to audio amps for audio sound, which then Amps used on demand was essential for that purpose. 

Anyway, the large Amp bank does provide that drain on demand. 
So far, I have dug around and found where the 8400 series has above 350 a/h ratings. I am waiting for the return email of BatCap to confirm this. 

Yes, back on generators. 
It is still a good idea for this thread. Generators can give you some support, but then you still have to buy fuel again. Its like an endless circle.
However, a generator would be nice to recharge your car when you go camping miles away from home and you have no recharging station or other way to recharge your batteries.. That would do great for that.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

whats the thread that shows you how to convert 12V to 120/144/220 very easily?


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

theRightNee said:


> since it seems to me that the battery pack is one of the most expensive components in an EV,


You can get into a decent Lead Acid battery pack for under $2000 that will last you upwards of 2 years.


> is it possible to create one that derives its power from a gasoline generator? is this cost effective? thanks!


The really what's the point? It's no longer an EV. It's a gas car, and a really inefficient one at that because you are converting gas to electricity to power an electric motor. Oh I remember! It's called a hybrid!

ga2500ev


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:

"Surely that was the point, a battery would be needed and I agree.
However, Coley, it is easy to make a converter or buy one that is fairly cheap, I don't know what you read in the past."

How did I get into this????


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## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

Coley said:


> Quote:
> 
> How did I get into this????


LOL !!!!! J.W.


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## theRightNee (Jul 13, 2008)

The really what's the point? It's no longer an EV. It's a gas car, and a really inefficient one at that because you are converting gas to electricity to power an electric motor. Oh I remember! It's called a hybrid!

ga2500ev[/quote]

ga2500ev, my intention is to take a small 2-cylinder and surround it with stirling engines, using the excess heat to increase net efficiency...the 2-cylinder engine would be hardly sufficient to provide the necessary torque to drive any car, therefore i have chosen to covert the energy into electricity. I had hoped not to have to carry large battery packs to reduce weight and cost, but I now realize that it is an essential component. Thank you.


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