# The very First Electric bicycle drag racing



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi Doc, nice to see you here.

Good work What is the top speed of the bike without the headwind?
With a bit less weight/wind it should manage a lot better. Got an old motorrcycle nose fairing you could put on? That might help a bit too (especially on a windy day).

Look forward to the next one!

Steve


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Killabike, I love it!


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Awesome video! I love the tire squealing, I thought that was the bike at first!

There have electric bikes that have run at NEDRA events, so you're not the world's first -- perhaps you are Canada's first? Your machine might be the world's quickest electric bicycle? My 300 hp gas car's 60 foot wasn't much faster than yours!


Doctorbass said:


> Hey guys... Today I realized something i'll ensure you i will retry many time!!!
> 
> Drag racing my electric bike!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Juiced (May 2, 2009)

Welcome to the dragracing world of the two wheelers. 

Be careful....drag racing is very addicting. 

What is next.....dual motors????

Always fun stuff!! 

Ed
Juiced Drag Racing
juiceddragracing.com


----------



## eric-ev (Apr 28, 2009)

Doctorbass, that looks extremely fun. Great run, good 60', get that reaction time down and you'd be beating full size cars! I'll agree with juiced, its so fun it can be 'addicting'! 



Now I hate to go on a tangent, but Fullhouse, please don't troll this forum! From your performance links for -drag racing- components (advertising) in your signature, your intentions are clear.

Drag racing CAN be dangerous, but so can riding to work/school/whatever. It's all about how risks can be minimized and planned for. Any track has professionals in safe racing and emergency crews for in case something does go wrong.

Also, anybody, let me stress ANYBODY, any age, sex, whatever, 5 years old, 95 years, whatever, ANYBODY can legally drag race without ANY formal education, training, sponsorship, etc. You CERTAINLY don't have to be a 'professional' and get paid for drag racing to do it and enjoy it!

Do a quick for 'street legal drag racing', or call down to your local drag race track. Most of them sponsor a street legal night when anybody can come and race whatever they want (as long as they agree to do so safely) - I've seen anything from lawnmowers, golf carts, motorcycles, bicycles, snowmobiles, cars, RV's, trucks, vans, semi's, anything. They'll even let you spectate from the stands if you don't want to drive.


----------



## yendrek3 (Jul 11, 2009)

Doctorbass said:


> Hey guys... Today I realized something i'll ensure you i will retry many time!!!
> 
> Drag racing my electric bike!!!
> 
> ...



looks like a really nice little beast. I own new A2B metro electric bicycle which gives me enough of fun but yours really look like it's a little monster


----------



## jmygann (Jul 26, 2007)

what was Josh Kersons's time ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT8-WspUNjg


----------



## yendrek3 (Jul 11, 2009)

jmygann said:


> what was Josh Kersons's time ??
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT8-WspUNjg


I'm bit concerned with the stability of that trike. How would that behave when you turn fast or try to stop very quickly? Any comments?


----------



## jmygann (Jul 26, 2007)

The maximum allowable speed for a assisted bicycle is 20mph. Be careful


----------



## yendrek3 (Jul 11, 2009)

jmygann said:


> The maximum allowable speed for a assisted bicycle is 20mph. Be careful


in the UK and continental Europe it's only 15.5mph (25km/h) so be very careful


----------



## 2cycle (Jul 2, 2009)

That looks like fun, I wouldn't call very dangerous really. When you about double that speed then it will be dangerous. I've crashed at 30 to 40 mph many times and probably 60 on a snowmobile, just tuck and roll.
This is what we do for fun with snowmobiles during the summer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88HpDmVTd60 , over 120 mph in the blink of an eye and believe it or not many guys have fallen off the snowmobile crossing the finish line at those speeds.


----------



## BobDiode (Apr 16, 2009)

Doctorbass said:


> Hey guys... Today I realized something i'll ensure you i will retry many time!!!
> 
> Drag racing my electric bike!!!
> 
> ...


A downhill bicycle can go 130 mph or more without a motor but not at all safe. So can a motorcycle with pedals. The definition of a ebike is really set by the laws and usually limited to 20 mph and 1000 watts in California which is the highest power ebike law I heard of. Drag racing a ebike without using pedals at all is just a weak bicycle frame with pedals for looks using a electric motorcycle motor. If ebike drag racing was to continue you will see some bad spills not proving anything but stupidity unless you limit the power to race a bicycle for efficiency.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

It's racing, people push the limits, and crash sometimes. What's the problem?


----------



## BobDiode (Apr 16, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> It's racing, people push the limits, and crash sometimes. What's the problem?


No problem here. Why don't you do it right and use a 10 pound 16 horsepower motor ?At what point do you call it a Motorcycle? What are you testing a bicycle frame or how much skin you can leave on a track?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=905411&page=13


----------



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

E-bike laws vary by location. In Illinois, USA, you can have 2 hp and 30 mph on a bicycle. After that you have to classify it as a scooter or whatever, I guess. AFAIK, all you have to do then is stay off the sidewalks and bike paths.

Many hub kit makers will give you what you can legally have, the controller is what limits it.

Check out Matt Shumaker's e-bikes. Some of his customers are putting 5 kW or more on his drives. He uses a slipper clutch to keep from twisting the frame into a pretzel.


----------



## BobDiode (Apr 16, 2009)

1clue said:


> E-bike laws vary by location. In Illinois, USA, you can have 2 hp and 30 mph on a bicycle. After that you have to classify it as a scooter or whatever, I guess. AFAIK, all you have to do then is stay off the sidewalks and bike paths.
> 
> Many hub kit makers will give you what you can legally have, the controller is what limits it.
> 
> Check out Matt Shumaker's e-bikes. Some of his customers are putting 5 kW or more on his drives. He uses a slipper clutch to keep from twisting the frame into a pretzel.


 
If Mat has a video please keep me posted.
I figured out his reduction losses along with heat losses due to not keeping the loads and rpm in the narrow sweet zone (on his 7000 rpm RC motor) when not supplying enough pedal force to keep everything in check at all speeds.. 

To me the most important thing on a ebike is efficient torque at any speed without needing to pedal. Then when you do all the pedal power will just be added and not to replace drive system losses. Expensive batteries will go farther and less moving parts to mess with as well. Hub motors are just too heavy not to mentio not too efficient on hills or low speeds. Gear reduction hub motors have loud gear losses but the most easiest and efficient on hills besides a nice efficient single chain reduction motor with enough efficient torque. The Castle Creations 45 amp sensorless controller on Ebay for $114. should work just fine on most ebikes or PM alternator motors. If you have a nice hall sensor controller and know how to place three $2. hall sensors in a motor you can DIY that too.
This is way to fast but for anything but testing. most of the time 2nd gear in the 1 to 1 ratio i only ride up to 25 pmh and shift to 3rd to add pedal force at a slow cadence and what ever I put in is added even at a slow motor rpm with no extra heat losses. Anyway there are extream DIY ebikers that do what the must to try to inhance the idea of a ebike.

on this clip the cars are going buy me at 55 mph while my max output is 1050 watts. A normal trip anywhere hills or not I average about 25 mph at 18 watt hours per mile. On steep dirt roads and trails it will not go over 24 watt hours per mile in any condition up to 30 mph. Since there no ebikes here to compare to it would be nice to see others ebike videos with all kinds of adverse conditions and get there real world figures with and without pedaling. All I am doing is promoting a cost effective way for most people to DYI a efficient ebike to their style of riding and save on battery , motor costs with great quality with easy adjustable performance features incorperated into a high power to weight ratio ebike... or a 1 to 14 Horsepower motorcycle with the same motor and chain /sprocket selection..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4srFXaXpZEI


----------



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

There are videos and plenty of forum posts. Google _Matt Shumaker bicycle_ and pretty much anything you see is him or related. He posts on www.endless-sphere.com sometimes.

FWIW, if anyone is planning a small two or three wheeled vehicle and want to use an RC aircraft or small commercial BLDC motor, give his stuff a look. He doesn't do motors, he makes a transmission to convert that to reasonable bicycle power.

Obviously since Illinois is 2 hp limit and that seems to be the highest limit so far mentioned, and this transmission is handling much higher than 5 kW, this transmission could be on a small enclosed trike or similar and still get pretty good speeds and range, especially if you put pedals on it too.

Note: He is not trying to be cheap. However, he is very cost-competitive with hub motors by the time you finish your project, and his transmission is much, much beefier than any hub motor. I've gone to his shop and fondled the parts personally. He does NOT sell completed devices ready to bolt onto your bike and go. He sells you a transmission and drills it to fit your motor, and then you get to add a speed controller and figure out how to power your bike with it.


----------



## BobDiode (Apr 16, 2009)

There are videos and plenty of forum posts. Google _Matt Shumaker bicycle_ and pretty much anything you see is him or related. He posts on www.endless-sphere.com sometimes.

FWIW, if anyone is planning a small two or three wheeled vehicle and want to use an RC aircraft or small commercial BLDC motor, give his stuff a look. He doesn't do motors, he makes a transmission to convert that to reasonable bicycle power.

Obviously since Illinois is 2 hp limit and that seems to be the highest limit so far mentioned, and this transmission is handling much higher than 5 kW, this transmission could be on a small enclosed trike or similar and still get pretty good speeds and range, especially if you put pedals on it too.

Note: He is not trying to be cheap. However, he is very cost-competitive with hub motors by the time you finish your project, and his transmission is much, much beefier than any hub motor. I've gone to his shop and fondled the parts personally. He does NOT sell completed devices ready to bolt onto your bike and go. He sells you a transmission and drills it to fit your motor, and then you get to add a speed controller and figure out how to power your bike with it.[/quote]
When He can put over 30,000 miles on his ebike without replacing a single drive sistem part at a cost of under $400. and be over 90% efficient in all conditions without having to pedal maybe he's got something. But I was doing what he is 20 years ago and figured it out within a year. 
This is a time to make some bets on a Volcano Race up the steapest paved road in the world to 10,005 feet in elevation from the beach on a ebike without pedaling or pedaling with the same amount of batteries. lol 

Keep in mind I already did that on a Huffy with 80 lbs of non lithium batteries at 24 watts per mile on a round trip of 73 miles at 12 mph up and 35 mph down in 2003 and no one has done it since on any electric vehicle. That was the first time I ever rode this bike. I still ride the same bike and drive sysyem today with no failuers after 30,000 miles of abuse. The whole ebike cost me less than $500. to make with quality parts other than the huffy bike wheels..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlrA4y3K_kU


----------



## jmygann (Jul 26, 2007)

ELECTRIC BIKE SPEED WORLD RECORD 58.66mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCPwsCXceFU&feature=related


----------



## BobDiode (Apr 16, 2009)

jmygann said:


> ELECTRIC BIKE SPEED WORLD RECORD 58.66mph
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCPwsCXceFU&feature=related


 Is the defination of a electric bicycle a bicycle with a motorcycle motor?
If so just put a bigger electric motorcycle motor on a bicycle to go 100 mph isn't that hard to do unless the frame breaks.


----------



## jmygann (Jul 26, 2007)

How about a 1/8 or 1/4 mile Drag video on a bicycle/tricycle ??

Bob/Randy , Dr Bass , Matt ????

Bob Diode .. what is your best time ??


----------



## BobDiode (Apr 16, 2009)

jmygann said:


> How about a 1/8 or 1/4 mile Drag video on a bicycle/tricycle ??
> 
> Bob/Randy , Dr Bass , Matt ????
> 
> Bob Diode .. what is your best time ??


In the morning.


----------



## jmygann (Jul 26, 2007)

Josh Kerson's drag race 12.09 and 12.47 in 1/8 mile


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbnbacAV3qk&feature=related

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wmbates/3567270121/in/set-72157618833097116/ 77mph???


Dr Bass ... ??

1/8 mile ...14.38 ET - with 5305 24" 100V 100A ??


----------



## Doctorbass (Dec 12, 2008)

jmygann said:


> Josh Kerson's drag race 12.09 and 12.47 in 1/8 mile
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbnbacAV3qk&feature=related
> ...


For my drag speed ebike ( using the crystalyte 5302 at 172A burst 100V, According to the graph of my GPS it's around 10.7s on the 1/8 mile =)

The 5302 deliver a big anmount of torque on a 20" wheel and a great powerband. but i did 94.3kmh at 75% max speed limited by the controller ( yes.. i forgot it programmed at 75%... and i had a head wind of 24kmh)

This summer i'll use 136V and 220A kelly controller. =)).. Dont forhet.. it's a Bicyle.. not a trike.. so it's not the same category than Josh Kerson's

http://www.evalbum.com/2742




Doc


----------



## Doctorbass (Dec 12, 2008)

Some important updates!!
A copy of the post in the endless sphere forum:

I thought it would be nice to begin a thread like this 
I just hope i'm not the only one to really enjoy drag racing my ebike!!
Last year on 3 may 2009 i tried first time my Mongoose setup and did in the 25sec at 67km/h
_Time slip:
- recorded 67.9km/h (1/4mile)
-reaction: 1.064
-60FT: 3.032sec
-1/8 mile 14.385sec at 66.8kph
-1/4 mile time 25.093sec at 67.9sec
- head wind of 46 km/h TOO HIGH !_


Then.. with my drag race ebike (june 2009) i did i the high 20sec and 57MPH

NOW LET SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT !

*BUT Today!!* with a big fatty tire ebike NOT BUILT FOR THINGS LIKE DRAG RACE, I did in the high 19sec !!!
Recorded speed at the 1/4 mile line: 61.3MPH *with 76A current limit on the controller*.
first run: 
top speed at 1/4 mile line: 61.32MPH
top speed at end of the lane: 65MPH
0-60 ft: 2.794sec
1/4 mile time: 19.935sec
reaction time: 1.219sec
conditions: charged to 4.15 per lipo cell, motor at 32 celsius[/COLOR]



2nd run: 
top speed at 1/4 mile line: 61.19MPH
top speed at end of the lane: 64MPH
0-60 ft: 2.585sec
1/4 mile time: 19.875 sec
reaction time: 0.801sec
conditions: charged to 4.10 per lipo cell motor at 56 celsius

3rd run: 
top speed at 1/4 mile line: 60.46MPH
top speed at end of the lane: not recorded
0-60 ft: 2.627
1/4 mile time: 19.930 sec
reaction time: 0.615
conditions: not recharged since 2nd run, motor at 67 celsius


Here are my 3 time slip from yesterday
and you?? :











Doc


----------



## Kelvin73 (Aug 27, 2010)

Doctorbass said:


> Hey guys... Today I realized something i'll ensure you i will retry many time!!!
> 
> Drag racing my electric bike!!!
> 
> ...


Nice Video!
I like feature of electric bike.


----------



## justinjay (Apr 9, 2010)

thanks for the video .. how much did the motor weigh?? .. if there was less weight im sure you could have taken in more speed


----------



## Pirape (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey Bass, I saw you on TV with your killabike 

Im planning to build a bike like yours! Probably not as fast tho but I would like nice range maybe a 72v setup what do you think?


----------

