# Electric Trabant?



## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

*Moved from EV Information Wiki...*
Hello,
I am Member 8 of 
http://www.geocities.com/trabantusa/ 
and hope to have an electric Trabant one day.
Here are some stats on the Trabant:
As per http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant_(Pkw) the empty weight is 620- 660 kg (1366.9 – 1455 lb.). 
There were two principal variants of the Trabant, the *Trabant 500*, also known as the *Trabant P 50*, produced 1957-1963; and the *Trabant 601* (or *Trabant P 60* series), produced from 1963 to 1991. The engine for both the _Trabant 500_ and _601_ was a small two-stroke engine with two cylinders, giving the vehicle modest performance. At the end of production it delivered 19 kW (25 horsepower) from a 600 cm³displacement. The car took 21 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) and the top speed was 112 km/h (70 mph). There were two main problems with the engine: the smoky exhaust and the pollution it produced. They produce nine times the amount of hydrocarbons and five times the carbon monoxides of the average European car of 2007. The fuel consumption was a modest 7 liters/100 km.[2] (34 mpg (US), 40 mpg (Imperial)). (Source: Wikipedia) 
I know that Lynch Motors in Ireland converted a Trabant and a company in Poland, Ohio deals with their motors. 
Any direction, suggestions, offers, etc. appreciated.
Eric
(trabant601)


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

An electric drive train sounds like a perfect replacement for that polluting two stroke. Just a few questions to help us help you. Are you hoping to match or exceed the factory specs for top speed and acceleration? What sort of driving do you expect to do (city/highway) and what sort of range would you like? What is you mechanical/electrical experience and skills?


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

That sounds like a fantastic car for a conversion. It's quirky, so it will retain some value due to that fact. Though I realize that the Trabant is not popular like, say for example, a Mini. The car is small yet practical too. My concerns for a car like this would be after-market support and the durability of the body of the car. I don't know whether you're just hoping that it won't break down much, or if you have a line on parts or if you planning on converting the car over to a more common drive train, but from what I know of the Trabant, it is not a popular car, and its after-market is comparatively non-existent (compared to VW's Volvos, or British cars). Also, as I recall, that body is made out of a fiber impregnated resin similar to fiber glass. Only, instead of glass, the resin is impregnated with some sort of organic material. I don't recall if it is wood fiber or straw or animal hair (haha, probably not straw or animal hair) or what, but I do recall that it rots away and basically leaves you without a body. Other than that, super cool car man!


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

mW- Thank you for asking those questions. I would love it if I could get close to the factory speed. That would permit me a 50/50 city/highway 40 mile roundtrip goal. I am not very mechanical. I rely heavily on mechanic and machine tool friends. They promise nothing but always have helped me out in a pinch or made me do the work myself while they watched. I can do more than I thought sometimes.
xrotaryguy-Parts supplies are drying up. Technical support lives on with the cult following of the car, Ostalgia. I have a personal cache of spare parts to last me a very long time if I become willing to break (part) one for spares here and there. You are right on with the body parts. I don't know of them rotting though. The material is resin/cotton called duroplast. It is on a unibody steel frame.


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

I don't think matching those goals will be a problem at all, 19kW peak power is very doable in an electric (160A at 120V), and a 40 mile range is pretty standard for conversions so that isn't difficult either. Do you have any idea what the GVMR is for a trabant? That would let you know how much weight for batteries you can fit in. We've been working on a guide for DIY conversions: Introduction to the EV Wiki, you will probably find that useful especially the page The First Step: Researching your EV. The good thing about an electric conversion is you get all the spare motor parts for your other Trabants or friends in the club. That would be plenty of brownie points to exchange, i.e. i'll give you my engine if you can weld my battery boxes hehehe. This sounds like a really nice conversion.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

A friend of mine, that makes wall hangings and sofas, just cut up 2 of these a couple years before I got into EVs.

They looked to me to be good cars at the time.

The two he cut up were complete and he just junked out everything left over.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

C- I sold two Trabants to a guy who cut one down the middle and made a static display with the other. Both are in a museum now. He also made furnature from car parts and such. It could be the same guy. I wish I had the half he threw away. His name was Rick. I have been looking for some of the load stats and some research. I am getting excited about planning a project.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Haha, all this talk about Trabants. Back when I worked at the parts store, I had a customer who was building a Trabant with a Chevy small block in it. I guess it was a really tight fit. She had to cut out the fire wall and didn't have much room in the driver's or passenger's seats anymore


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Just came across these, funny coincidence, i was sure it must have been you but its from 8 months ago...
Electric Trabant test 1
Electric Trabant test 2
Electric Trabant test 3


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Those YouTube clips have me on the trail of the car itself. It is real and I am translating some of the data and will contact the owner in Croatia. In the mean time I also confirmed that indeed a Trabant was converted a while back with a Lynch Electric Motor and is in far north UK. Still working on finding it exactly. I am getting excited about the plan, still just planning though. Thank you


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

I found the electric Trabant in Zagreb, Croatia (thanks to Matt finding those YouTube clips). The owner, Roman, posted his story in a forum there. http://www.e-vozila.com/forum/
In case it is as interesting to someone else; I will try to translate some of his conversion notes. It will take some work and thereafter I will communicate directly with Roman (my wife speaks his native language, what luck). More later.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

The electric Trabant in Zagreb, Croatia story as translated by my wife and me with considerable editing (it was much longer).
In 2004 Roman, in Zagreb, bought a Trabant with no engine with the intent to place an electric motor in, because the idea had always attracted him.
He used a "Balkancar" 45V, 7.5 Kw at 2200 o/min motor. He was stuck on finding a controller and batteries.
He attached the motor to the existing transmission, keeping the clutch so he could disengage drive in an emergency. He borrowed a "Curtis" controller and Potentiometer 0-5k and acquired some 6V batteries with 160 Ah which are quite large weighing 35 kg each. Four of the batteries fit nicely under the rear seat. He did a direct connection through a "tristor" and "contactor" with the 4 batteries to test things out on 24 V. He could turn off the tristor with the contactor.
The car made it to forth gear at 25 kmph. After adding four more batteries (placed in front of the front passenger seat) and using the same connection, he reached 60 kmph. That was his goal.
He says that he couldn't measure (I think it means really test it) because "the police never sleep." He named the car "Autonomia."
Now to finish the project he needed to build carriers for the batteries which were in the front seat. The location under the hood where the gas tank was would be ideal but the weight distribution was far too heavy on the passenger side since he only weighs the same as 2 batteries. He was afraid the car would list to starboard at all times. 
He tried the controller (the owner would not sell it to him). It was disappointing because the input was 48v but the output at full throttle was only 36v. The controller had been altered and the motor was very noisy. He tested the car in Neutral with the ammeter - and found that for starting, energy usage is far less through the controller than with a direct connection. 
He asked for anyone in or around Zagreb for help with a controller and a DC/DC converter from 48v to 12v for lights and such (Croatian Law requires lights on even in daylight).
In the mean time, he bought some LED lights which are bright enough to usie as driving lights and rear lights as driving lights. They would not work as turn signals since the Blinkgeber didn't recognize them. 
His next step (which is sure to be long since completed) was to have the carriers for the batteries made by a welder.
He posted all of this on 14 Sept. 2007 and there are many many posts on the thread after it.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Very cool. Thanks for the translated story.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

This is absolutely amazing! Not only is there an active electric car forum, but there's an electric car forum with someone that wants to convert a Trabant to electricity just like me 

Here are some VERY useful links my friend:

www.trabant.ca
http://www.shocauto.com/inventory.htm

There's also a US site that imports Trabants, but I seem to have misplaced the link.

Cheers,


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

The world just keeps getting smaller.  

The only down side to this is that now you know that you're not the first one to come up with this idea.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

WE aren't the first ones to come up with it unfortunately.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

> pontiac grand prix EV conversion


As you said, someone must have already thought of it... check out evforum.net in the Conversion section for a pleasant surprise.

http://www.evforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=321


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

I have located the Lynch Motor Trabant. I will be contacting the owner soon and share his tips for me and others who want to convert a Trabant to electric. I registered in the electric car forum in Croatia to make contact with the owner of the electric Trabant there (his first post is translated above). I hope to share more from him for my sake and others.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

The owner of the Electric Trabant in Zagreb is now in communication with me. Here is a summary of his reply to me through their forum there in Croatia.
Regarding the connection between the motor and the transmission, it is a 3cm thick plate with holes for connecting the motor and transmission. Because he added a clutch, he needed space for it between the motor and transmission. (I'm not sure what he means by that. It sounds like he added another clutch in addition to the original clutch, which he said he saved.) He said that there is no universal solution for this connector plate; it depends on what motor you get to determine what that plate will look like.
His plate was made for him, he provided the motor and trans. Having that fabricated was not cheap and thus was one of his biggest issues. He then had to be creative and innovative, using friends, to make the motor mounts and the battery carriers. 
On a personal note, he said I was lucky to have support from my wife, because when he started his project his sister and father both thought that he was crazy. In the beginning he knew only that he wanted to use a Trabant because of its light weight and chassis. He used the first motor that he found, 45V, 7.5 kW. He adjusted everything around that motor, including: the plate, the 160 ah batteries, and the controller.
The controller was hard to find but eventually he got an Alltrax 4844M for 24-48v at 400a. So the deal was done.
His biggest problem now is registering the car. 
He goes on with his perception that I should be able to find anything I want here and describes his dream Electric Trabant, which he would make if he were here and had the money. He would use a "separately excited" motor (I don't know what that is.), 15kW ~4000 rpm motor. The Trabant is originally 4100 rpm reaching 110 kmph (65mph). To that he would add an adequate controller and Li-Ion batteries. Voltage depends on how fast one wants to go, more voltage, faster car. He warned me about going over 48v since that is when it becomes fatal and to insulate everything well with fuses. 
His super dream E-Trabant would have regenerative breaks.
This was all posted on their EV forum on 19 Feb. 2008


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

My guess is that he said "added a clutch" because electric cars do not necessarily need a clutch. Building an EV with out a clutch will probably cause the transmission's synchronizers to wear prematurely though.

A "separately excited" motor might be a shunt motor.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey DeLorean 4,
Great to hear you are interested in converting a Trabant also. In my spare time I have been studying posts in these forum threads, researching around and asking questions, trying to understand "Convert It" and How to make your own Electric Car (which I checked out from the Library), Convert It was in Louisiana! got it through interlibrary loan.
I hope you read the post on the electric Trabant in Croatia. I now know the name and phone number for the owner of the electric Trabant in the UK. I got that by triangulating info from the Lynch Motor site and other clues (I used the "Wayback Machine") I recommend it for finding extinct web addresses, someone was genious to think of saving all of the websites.
I will call the UK owner this weekend and get his story and ask for pictures.
More later,


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

> "Convert It" and How to make your own Electric Car


HAHA! I got both of them for my 16th birthday last year as well as "The Electric Car" written by the society of electrical engineers 
The only thing that's putting me off from starting with a Trabant is the purchase cost.... 5000$ for basic models. That's about the same as the electric conversion kit in its entirety and with 5000$ I'd either opt for a different car or the ElectroAutomotive AC heavy vehicle kit. Chances are I'll end up sticking with scrapyards or our own driveway.

At the moment, our only manual transmissioned car is a 1968 Volvo 122s (Amazon) two door sedan. As cool as it would be electric, my father keeps on flipping points of view as to whether I could use it. 

Most common scenarios:

*Scenario One:* I ask if I can go get myself (for example) a 250$ Chevy Sprint with a blown motor and two spare manual trannys. 
He says the 122s is just fine or he finds some fault in the donor car that makes it "unsuitable". 
*Scenario Two:* As soon as I ask if I can start uninstalling the engine on the 122s (I live in Québec, and therefore it's in the garage all winter anyways) he starts going on how I shouldn't touch it (or that I should get some new upholstery first). He then recommends to find something else or use one of our other cars (all automatics and heavy).
*Scenario Three:* I point out that his arguments contradict each other and he tells me I can't do it. Then come those dreaded words "Try something smaller". 
Despite having already done just that with an electric bicycle, having read "Build you're own Electric Vehicle" and "Convert it" and building up some Québec-based consultants (mechanic and ev owners) for my car project it's always the same thing. 
More recently, we came to an agreement where he told me I could go on with the project if I asked the mayor if there were any municipal garages not in use. If he flips POV again once I get approval (just like all the past agreements with which I met the criteria for and was rejected with) I guess I'll just go ahead anyways.

By the way, do you seriously own seven Trabis?


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

For those interested in the existing Trabant conversions... I failed with finding EV Trabant in Scotland. I did, however, have a nice telephone chat with the bloke there who has an all original Trabant (an historic one at that). He gave me a tip on finding the electric one. He thinks it is some 50 miles north of his location. Tourism office, local paper, and radio will certainly help me find it. 
Why, you ask, do I want to contact them?? A: I planned it. I would like to see what it looks like, how well they perform with what they did, and any suggestions on what they would do if they could do it again. Perhaps my wife will make a picture page on the web to show what I get as a result of asking for pictures from these two people and maybe a video of the conversion we are planning when it starts.
Does anyone know of another electric Trabant besides the one in Zagreb, Croatia and the Lynch Motor one in Scotland?


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## aminorjourney (May 16, 2008)

There's also a guy in Bristol, UK, who is converting a Trabant to electric. 

I've snapped some photos of his work so far here. There's also a other set here, taken by my rather better photographer friend. Bristol is a hot bed for EV activity, so I'm glad to see this conversion taking place 

Nikki.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Wow, those pictures are great and I really hope to speak to the pair in Bristol because I am worried about the transmission and the clutch issue. I have not given up on my plans. They are brewing still. I did have an email exchange with the actual owner of the electric Trabant in Croatia and the one in Scottland, the one in Scottland has been sold to a fellow on the Isle of Man (name Julian). Has anyone heard from him? I never get satisfaction with my questions about the transmission and clutch. I do now know that the Lynch Motor Trabant is so slow and weak that it can't get out of its own way. The one in Croatia is still not registered.
I will post some pictures of the Trabant I have recently dedicated to an EV conversion. The motor is out already. If there was ever any doubt why a Trabant should be converted.... I have posted a youtube video of me starting one of my other Trabants. Have a look. http://youtube.com/watch?v=1HsDE9dXdPM


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

I very much admire your determination to pursue this project. I have yet to raise a good 5000$ for my future 1968 Volvo conversion (I LOVE the US-Canada $ exchange rate )


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks, I have to get a few pictures of the Trabant I bought for this project on Youtube or somehwere, It was $400 already missing the motor (unfortunatly, also missing the transmission and wiring harness). Breaks are good and the work it will take to get it ready is a bit more than the work saved by having no engine. But it made the price right.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

trabant601 said:


> Thanks, I have to get a few pictures of the Trabant I bought for this project on Youtube or somehwere, It was $400 already missing the motor (unfortunatly, also missing the transmission and wiring harness). Breaks are good and the work it will take to get it ready is a bit more than the work saved by having no engine. But it made the price right.


Hey are you in the states? Can you get a Trabant licenced for the Road? Car and driver brought one over to the states some years ago and the Government was very explicit that it was to NEVER be driven on the road. They did some track testing and it either went to a musem or the crusher.

Also what's the Gross vehicle weight on one of those. Since it's original motor was so light I woudl not expect that it's total allowed weight would be much.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, I am in Indiana and have 6 Trabants licenced here. When Car and Driver did those tests the rules were different. Back then, and when I imported most of my Trabants, the rules stated that the car chassis had to be built before 1.1.1968 (the date of the Clean Air Act) to not have any EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) rules applied. There was also a date in 1972 that had to be beaten regarding DOT (Department of Transportation) regarding bumpers, glass, etc. Some time around when President George H. Bush took office the rules changed to match those of other countries; 25 years or older is now classified "Oldtimer" and can be imported as such with easier to meet regulations. 
See the first post in this thread for the stats on the Trabant.
Watch these posts for pictures soon of the slow, but determined, plan to convert a Trabant here in Indiana. The Trabant has been chosen and parts are being planned.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Uh, that is George W. Bush of course. Sorry about that.


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## substance (Jul 23, 2008)

Hey, what happened with your Trabant project? I also got the same idea after seeing the youtube clip of the EV Trabant. 
I can get a relatively good condition Trabant 601S for around 100-200 $ or even less. How much do you guys think would cost an EV conversation of this light car, so that it goes about 250 miles (400km) per charge with a top speed of about 80 mph (130kmh). I really want to invest in batteries, even if it`s something still in development, because I don`t plan to make this mod this year.
I also want to completely change and renew the interior, new steering wheel and panels, electric windows, airbags, A/C (the cited miles range without the AC turned on of course), new seats too maybe and of course a really cool paint job.
Just make a rough estimation, but bare in mind that some parts can be acquired from other broken or smashed cars.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

The reason why DIY airbag systems aren't available is because an incorrectly positioned and/or engineered one can make a hazardous situation even deadlier (you can think of it as having a second steering wheel hit you in the face). When buying a communist car, you HAVE to make compromises. You can get A/C if you like and I don't see the point of having electric windows, the result doesn't justify (to me) the effort needed to install them and the added weight. Trabis are lightweight cars, you shouldn't spoil their appetite.

Please tell me where you're finding them for 100-200$ (if you live in North America), I'd love to get my hands on one of them 

As for the 400km range, you'll have to wait for Nanosafe or EEstor batteries to be released to the public for homemade conversions. Either that, or drive VERY conservatively on off-the-shelf components. On the other hand, I've also heard many promising things about LiTPO4 batteries (wrong spelling, can anyone correct me?).

To get better range per charge (once your conversion is done) try cleanmpg.com, it's a web community consisting of people united for the cause of hypermiling, essentially, getting the most distance out of a tank of fuel be it electric, gasoline, or both.

Hope this helps.

Patrick,


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## substance (Jul 23, 2008)

That hypermiling thing looks interesting, I`ll check it later.
I live in Bulgaria, Europe and trabies are really cheap here. You can find one with a working engine for about 100$, of course there are more expensive ones with better condition.
So much for airbags and electric windows, but the A/C idea still seems nice to me. About batteries... how much would a li-ion battery pack, providing 200+ miles per charge cost me? Of course I can wait for other developments such as EEstor, but what guarantee do I have that they`ll even sell it to consumers and not only to car manufacturers?
EDIT: Do you know if Altairnano are selling NanoSafe battery packs to consumers or only to big car manufacturers?
EDIT 2: Changed my mind, I don`t want to know!  I just saw that a pack of 35 kWh NanoSafe is around 75k $!


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

I don't know about those battery packs but I do know that there is a demand for Trabants in the USA, it is very small, but there is a demand. Those guys generally don't want to go anywhere to get it though. I love the adventure of finding, buying, driving in country, shipping, and clearing customs. They mostly want it delivered to their door. A trusted parts supplier is also very valuable. Do you know one?
I will be posting some pictures somehow of the Trabant I am converting. It is a slow process but It is happening.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

> how much would a li-ion battery pack, providing 200+ miles per charge cost me?


You should check out this site:
http://www.lionev.com/upgrade_to_Lithium.html

Here's what they list:
 Replacement packs are designed to be within 1.75VDC of the original factory specifications.

Chevrolet S-10 EV
$15,900.00

Ford Ranger EV
$14,000.00

Honda Accord PHEV
$1,125.00

Honda Civic PHEV 2003
$1,125.00

Honda Civic PHEV 2006
$1,250.00

Honda EV Plus EV
$14,000.00

Honda insite PHEV 
$1,125.00

Kangoo EV
$2,100.00

Reva G Wiz EV
$8,100.00

Think City EV
$11,925.00

Toyota Prius PHEV 2004
$1,575.00

Toyota Prius PHEV 2006
$2,250.00

Toyota Rav4 EV
$14,000.00

Zap Xebra
$11,925.00

Lithium packs require special chargers, these are priced at $725.00. A universal charging harness is also required, this is priced at $240.00. The above packs include PCM/Equilizers. 


*Input:* PCM algorithmic Smart Charger
*Communication:
*Via PCM/BMS USB port
*Specifications:*
*Weight:*

19.5 pounds per KWh

*Dimensions:*

289 cubic inches per KWh

*Power:

*32 Wh to 672 Wh per cell depending on the model selected.

*Charge cycles:*
Greater than 2000 at 80% DOD
*Construction:*
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Prismatic.




> I don't know about those battery packs but I do know that there is a demand for Trabants in the USA, it is very small, but there is a demand. Those guys generally don't want to go anywhere to get it though. I love the adventure of finding, buying, driving in country, shipping, and clearing customs. They mostly want it delivered to their door. A trusted parts supplier is also very valuable. Do you know one?
> I will be posting some pictures somehow of the Trabant I am converting. It is a slow process but It is happening.


I'd absolutely love to go through the entire process, but it's too expensive buying a round trip plane ticket and shipping for the car. Please post pictures asap  By the way, didn't you once say you have 6 or 7 Trabants? Could you spare one for me? *twinkling eyes*


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## substance (Jul 23, 2008)

The battery upgrade list doesn`t say much to me. Do you know the price of the cited batteries per kWh? 
I need some help calculating the Wh/km (Wh/mile) ratio of a 600kg (1300 lbs) Trabant (without engine) with say 2 80kg (176 lbs) people in it at an average speed of 70 km/h (43 miles/h). Once this efficiency ratio is calculated, I will be able to do some more maths and find out what parts do I need.
Generally with these incredibly high prices, I`m now considering the idea of a light city trabi with range no bigger than 50-60 miles. Main power source will be a solar panel on the top, 1-2 small wind generators behind the front grill (or whatever this is called) and of course regenerative braking. All these would be able to power maybe half of the batteries and the others will be plug-in rechargable. If all the batteries are devided into two packs, one of them I can cary to my flat for recharging, because it`s not that easy to charge a vehicle when you live in an apartment and you have no garage.
So I`m still looking for cheap Li-ion batteries, but not sure about the quantity, since I don`t have the Wh/mile ratio.
Also does anyone know the exact roof area of the Trabant, so that I can calculate some solar panel specs?

*trabant601*, I don`t know any suppliers, but spare parts for trabbies are generaly abundant in ex-soviet countries such as mine.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

The website is much more plentiful than the small list I gave you. As for the wind turbines, I've heard people debate their worth on account of their weight and wind resistance to power generated ratio. I'm no engineer, so you should ask about wind turbines to someone else.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Here is a link to show the lines of a Trabant. I will include here the roof dimentions as measured by me moments ago with a metric tape I got for free from the bank. (We still use English Rule here.)
http://car-blueprints.narod.ru/images/trabant/trabant-p601s.gif
The roof is not flat so the measureing includes the curvature...
center of top length= 153 cm
rear of top width= 105 cm
at posts width= 115 cm
leading width= 110 cm
I can also provide the same measurements for the KOMBI of the bottom picture, since that is the car I am converting.


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## substance (Jul 23, 2008)

Well the combi would have more space for a solar panel, so it`s better suited.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

Not to mention you also have more trunk space in the rear for batteries 

There's also the fact that many stationwagons have reinforced springs to carry heavier loads than their sedan counterparts, I don't know if this was the case with the East Germans.

Imagine all of the solar power you could harness with this!!!

http://trabant.shocauto.com/images/Trabant_Limousine_front_corner1.JPG

http://trabant.shocauto.com/images/trabant-limo.jpg


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## Rumpi (Aug 11, 2008)

Hello all,

I actuallly joined this group because I also want to convert a Trabi. Just now I am checking the legal requirements to do this, this week I hope to have an apointment with the responsible engeneer for my area. In the meantime I enjoy my Trabi with his ICE, just as I have done for the past 3 years in wich it has served me without complaining. 
I researched this subject a lot and it seams I have found a lot more information then the members of this forum. Then of course I have the advantage of looking at the source, I speek german. The oldest e-Trabi that I could find on the net belongs to a german engeneer from Dresda and was buildt in the 70's from the begining as a EV using a spare chasis (Ersatzkarosserie, serial number begining with E) and salvaged parts from postal delivery vans. Same engeneer is driving now a new e-Trabi, offering a conversion kit for sale (in Germany). I dont have the links because I am on vacation and using a laptop I took from work. Next week I can provide the links if someone is interested. 
I have decided for myself a little configuration for my e-Trabi, based on my needs and available parts and budget. I want to use a permanent magnet motor like the Lynch or Perm at maximum 72V 100-120Ah. I need a range of maximum 30 Km since the car will be used for city driving. I think I will use AGM-s since flooded lead is around the same price here and twice as heavy. (I only found traction batteries designed for forklifts, offerd as 2V cells and 10-12kg = 20-24lb.) I also found gel traction batteries, but these are even more expensive then AGM's. 
I know the motor I selected is used primarely on bikes and karts, but it is the only thing that meets the criteria. First it must be small and light since there isnt a lot of space in the engine bay and the maximum front axis load is only 450kg. Second, it must be capable of regeneration because the Trabi does not have great brakes, and I will need regeneration mostly for braking. I coud upgrade the brakes to disk brakes (Golf 2 GTI) wich would have the stopping power I need, but this would be expensive and I dont need any other problems with the national homologation autority (conversion to electric is tricky enough). Since I dont need much speed I am satisfied with the 72V. I cant drive more then 50Km/h (around 35mph) in the city, so why more batteries? My biggest concern is the controller. Because I dont want to spend money on import taxes I want to use something that is available in Europe. Lynch Motors says the best controller for a larger vehicle equipped with their motor would be the Brusa M95, but I coudnt find a price for this controller. If I cant find it, then I probably end up using a controller from 4QD, even if it is designed primarely for boats. I hope someday I will have a EV.
If someone is interested in any information about the Trabi, theoretical and also practical (I do work on it besides driving it every day) and also sources for parts and so on, I will be happy to oblige.
Have a nice day.
P.S. The stationwagon Trabi (601 Universal) has only a reinforced rear spring and a maximum axis load wich is only 40 kg greater. Anyway it is a good thing to use a new rear spring since a lot of the time the cars were overloaden during their life, and in time the rear spring flattens out. On cars with rear coil springs one can use springs intended for Escort and Fiesta. For better schock absorbers I can only say KONI. (Ignore pricetag or go the cheap way, buy some intended for Lada 1200, 1500, overseas look for Fiat 124 Sedan, they should fit.)


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Rumpi et al,
I would like to communicate with you. I am not an engineer or mechanic so your notes are very valuable to me. Please send the link for the Dresden Trabi conversion; no matter if it is in German as I too speak German. I vacationed in Germany this summer and was at the Trabant Rally at Zwickau but still never hear any mention of a German Trabi EV. My plan was to use the Kombi instead of one of my Limos because the motor is already removed, if it is advisable to chance my plan I might. I plan on leaving the breaks alone (at the slow speeds I would drive they can be trusted). I am concerned with the clutch question the most. I can easily shift now without using the clutch but it sounds easier to leave it in. The Zagreb conversion is said to have left in the clutch but then had to put another one in (something may have been lost in translation there). 
trabant601


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## Rumpi (Aug 11, 2008)

Hello trabant601,

I will send you the link next week when I am at my home pc. I coudnt make Zwickau until now, job woudnt allow it. I hope for next year. Visit www.pappenforum.de it is the biggest forum for trabants in Germany. Someone in Berlin was going to convert to electric this year acording to one thread (you must search for it forum is huge). The best german site is not availeble enymore, it was www.eltrabi.de.
Kombi or limo it does not matter. A kombi is nice because you can put the batteries in the back and make a cover and still use some luggage space and have easy access to it. With the small opening of the limo luggage compartment this is sometimes a problem (try to stuff a huge hardcase suitcase in). 
I hope you have good brake components and not the cheap hungarian one. I have driven my Trabi with full load (4 people and luggage until the car was stuffed) and I can tell you it takes twice the distance to stop, and it feels like stopping the car with ones foot, brake pedal was very very stiff. But I have the cheap hungarian brake shoes and with good components this should not matter if you dont try a dead stop from 90-100 kmh. 
About the clutch. I am 100% positive that a the trabant clutch is not up to the task. Not the clutch plate per se, but the graphite ring they used for a thrust bearing. I think that is the part that got lost in the croatian translation. The graphite ring can be changed for a propper thrust bearing and if desired a stronger pressure plate and clutch disk can be bought from Sachs Racing. This is a conversion that is often done by people who convert to a Wartburg motor or by the racers I am convinced you have seen in Zwickau. I think that this is not necessary. I would go clutchless all the way, because in city driving you need only third gear, only if you have some hills you need to shift to second. Having a clutch is not mandatory, so I would drop it it and have regen instead, using the clutch pedal as a regen brake pedal. The adaptor should be also straightforward without a clutch. But of course if you need a lot of quick shifting and have a heavy battery pack and nice sized hills so that you have to use even first gear, then a clutch makes sense. How is it to shift clutchles with the ICE still in? I havent tried it yet, only double shifting sometimes.
Have a nice day.


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## Rumpi (Aug 11, 2008)

Okay here are the links, I just googled them (easy if you know what you ar searching for):
30 years with an electric Trabi: http://www.solarmobil.net/Vereine/Dresden/Trabi.htm
a kombi from dresden: http://www.trabel-dresden.de/
and the mirror site: http://homepages.compuserve.de/falkreinhard/trabel1.htm
a link to the first elektromobil site in dresden, site is worth for itself, I post the link directly to the trabi information about the kit, developed by the engeneer in the first link: http://www.elektromobil-dresden.de/html/trabbiumbau.html
hope this helps. will post more links if I find them.


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## Rumpi (Aug 11, 2008)

another kit: http://www.manthey-mobil.de/ under Fahrzeuge > Elektrabi, under Gebrauchtwagen they sell a converted red Kübel with AC-Motor and new Batteries for 6800 Euros. And I think the car is this one fom the elweb-wiki: http://www.elweb.info/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=elektrabi&DokuWiki=#elektrabi_elektrotrabi
how many AC Kübles can there be??? The guys who build this one are rumored to have converted around 70 Trabis between 1990 and 1995


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## Rumpi (Aug 11, 2008)

new video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGNd5rSE7k

its from hungary, shifts clutchless.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Rumpi et al, 
These links and tips are great. I will certainly be in contact with appropriate people regarding advice and ideas.
I have made a small video of the donor Trabant in Indiana (perhaps the first electric Trabant in the USA), Rumpi might find others. 
I will post a link to show the donor video ASAP.
btw: I have decided to remove the clutch. All of the advice here has been great but... the guy with some knowhow and a welder said he will not help me if I leave it in. I am convinced. The Hungarian Youtube video didn't hurt either.
More soon.
trabant601


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Here is a short video to show the conversion Trabant as it looks right now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QsS5XYXdes I will start getting parts for the conversion together now and will make a new video when I start installing them. There are some issues to take care of with this Trabant first also. Missing some important bits, broken parts, and cosmetics.
Cost of this project so far is $400 for this Trabant donor from Athens, GA. I don't include shipping, title and registration, and cleaning supplies since they were minimal anyway.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

> I don't include shipping, title and registration, and cleaning supplies since they were minimal anyway.


How can shipping be considered a "minimal" cost? I'd gladly convert a Trabant if I could import one into Canada within my donor car price range.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Well, a Trabant sold last week for $1000 in PA and last year a perfectly good Trabant sold on the northeast coast somewhere for $1600. That is pretty close to you. Shipping from there couldn't be that much. I don't want to include intangable expenditures. I will tell you it cost me $250 to pay the seller of this conversion Trabant to deliver it to my house from Georgia, USA. Since this is a tenth of what I paid to ship a P600 (seen in the background of a part of the video, yellow with black hood/bonnet) this summer, I consider it minimal.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

Nice! Could you PM me if you ever hear about any Trabants for sale on my side of the continent? The Lada I'm thinking of getting costs 1500$, needs to be "shipped" or driven from Calgary, Alberta to Otterburn Park, Québec and some body work.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

I will ping my contacts. There are some expensive Trabants in Canada that should stay as they are and with the current owners (punishment for thinking that they have a car worth what they are asking). That price for you Lada idea (add the shipping) isn't too bad and the body work would probably be needed anyway on a cheaper Trabant. You might have found a great donor. Don't get me wrong, I am just thinking like you, economics does have influences.


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

I agree entirely, the Lada is a great donor car with its manual transmission, high gross vehicle weight, stationwagon design and straightforward RWD layout. I have a slight preference for Trabants because their styling is inoffensive (unless you're an ex-East German), their body panels don't rust and they're lightweight.

A contact on a Lada forum found this info for me, the gross vehicle weight gives me lots of "artistic license" once it comes to battery selection and quantity on the Signet:

Net Vehicle Weight 1040kg 
Gross Vehicle Weight 1515kg

I'll stop talking about the Lada since I seem to have gotten this thread off-topic. Once I have developments worth talking about, I'll post them in a seperate section.


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## KiloKilo (Sep 8, 2008)

Haven't read the whole thread, but I do hope you would convert a Trabant, just because it is more of an icon then a LADA.
Shame you are on the other side found a nice one for an EV project;

http://www.autoscout24.de/Details.aspx?id=bekbwljxd3vh

Here is the whole list;

http://www.autoscout24.de/List.aspx...0&ustate=N&ustate=U&um=True&sort=price&zipc=D


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

That Trabant is great and a good price. You are right though, we are on the wrong side of the pond for that buy. Perhaps some diyer will decide to convert that Trabant.


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## ElektroTrabi (Sep 22, 2008)

I've just built an electric Trabant that does 70mph (115kph) with a 28kw series motor, 120V 68AH. The other Electric Trabi in Britain had an 8.5kw Lynch motor to do 50mph at 48V. In many ways a Trabi is ideal:light body (615kg when petrol 800ish with batteries), rising rate suspension so that the extra weight doesn't mess up the excellent cornering, wind up windows, unassisted steering, unassisted brakes, distinctive and slightly mad, and (for a classic car) good spares availability from LDM and Reich in germany. 
The two disadvantages are 
1) the gearing is fairly low (70mph is 5000rpm), so getting the original top speed is quite a challenge, let alone the 70mph needed for UK motorways
2) there's not a lot of space, so it's tricky to get everything in.

I went for speed and boot space to produce a car with a 15-20mile range with absurd acceleration, 4 seats and no loss of boot space. If you can live with 50ish mph then a motor from Lynch or LMC is a good bet as they are light efficient and compact, but if you want original top speed or faster then you either need a new geabox or a series motor.

I'm going to switch to LiFeP04 when these batteries die, as it's so much fun to drive I want to be able to go further than the commuting & shopping it was built for.

I've posted a few pictures


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Please let me know where I can see the pictures. Perhaps I don't know how to use the forum well enough to see them.
Also, when will you be in Indiana?? John in CO tipped me off that you will be here. Please feel free to call. Send a Private message if you wish.


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## ElektroTrabi (Sep 22, 2008)

If you go to the members list and look me up there you'll find 3 pics. 2 of the outside of the car showing the DDR plate charging point and 1 of the speedometer when it's doin 115kph. I'm away from home at the moment. Will upload more pics this weekend. 

Hopefully see you when I'm over

Good Luck


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## ElektroTrabi (Sep 22, 2008)

forgot to mention there are also various pics (before respray) on Flikr from one of the Bevob people, I think links further up this thread, otherwise easy to find on google.


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## ElektroTrabi (Sep 22, 2008)

More pics uploaded, showing engine compartment, motor, front and rear battery trays etc.


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey ElektroTrabi, Thanks for stopping over a while back and inspecting my donor car and giving me that advice. I still plan to do this with that car. The breaks are freed up now and I am working on some lights that will work. No purchase of the package. Things are a little tough for my budget these days. I might go back to the drawing board and piece it together just to get an EV that moves, even if slower and shorter distances than I had plans for. Send me an email if you have any other tips. I have a Trabant expert from Zwickau expected for a vacation stop here (couple of weeks in the area) and we will do some work on that Trabant and others. Stop by again if it amuses you. E


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## ElektroTrabi (Sep 22, 2008)

Hi Eric, good to hear from you again. Given a free choice I think the best motor for you would be an Agni, small, light efficient and giving similar performance to original engine http://agnimotors.com/95-71rpm60v.pdf

If you're forced to piece it all together from what you can find cheaply then the key checks are that the motor will run to the rpm you need for a speed that you are happy with (4200rpm is 100kph in 4th) at voltage that gives you a sensible capacity with batteries that aren't too expensive.

I get around 3.5 miles/kwh from my Trabant (best is 4.5miles/kwh) but I've never got anywhere near the stated capacity of the batteries (because its at a lower rate than driving), so I need 50% bigger batteries than the above would suggest.

hope this helps

I'm hoping to be in Indiana in June, so I may be able to pop in

Good Luck

Martin


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## DeLorean_4 (Feb 16, 2008)

It's nice to hear that the Trabant projects are still alive and flourishing.
I tried my hand at buying a Lada Signet to convert to electricity but it was sold (two days ago) before I could raise sufficient funds to purchase it.

My quest for converting a soviet/east german vehicle continues, and luckily, there are two other wackos like me on this forum who share similar, albeit quirky, ambitions.

Do any of you know where I can find a Trabant on a student budget besides at SHOC autos and trabant.ca?


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## edwarl (May 13, 2009)

Aha!! At last !! A meet-up with fellow Trabi enthusiasts. And not too far geographically south of the EV project - terrific !!
If any of you have watched the DVD doco 'A Car For a Dollar' - The Trabant Story, Zwickau '05 - then we have already 'met'.
My personal 45 seconds of fame comes at about the 42 minute mark!
And I have just finished the beaut read 'Trabant Trek' - Crossing the world in a plastic car, written by Dan Murdoch. (My copy of the book was sent from London by my son there.) 
The Trek is an unbelievable achievement and the book is superbly written and presented. Perhaps some of you may have followed Dan's Blogging along the Trek.
I want a Trabi here in Aussie - I think that there are a couple here already but I want MINE !!


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## jocurimasini (May 12, 2009)

an Electric Trabant??


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi again everybody. Unfortunatly there is no progress on my project. I have had to do some things with the IC powered Trabants and this winter I hope that the wiring for lights and break system can be brought into order. I am missing one part for the drive system, then i will worry again about what kind of budget to commit to the conversion. 
The movie CAR FOR A DOLLAR is great and I will look for others who identify themselves in it. I am in it also, they guy who buys the car for a dollar at the end. Didnt know I was on camera when i took that big bite of Bratwurst.


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## uadiv (Mar 20, 2011)

hi everybody!
it seems that this thred is no longer active... but i'll try my luck with some questiones...
first of all i want to say that i'm from Romania, and finding a Trabi in good condition wont be a problem (sure hope so...).

what are you thinking about using, let's say, 2 modified starter motors (or why not 4 x 24v, 4-5 kw each) direct drive (no gear box)?
i know that many people used this kind of motors in electric go-karts...

Sure hope you will like my idea!


ps please excuse my english


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## trabant601 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi there, the thread is old but still alive. I recently, in May, rebuilt the breaks on the donar car. I have to do some work on the frame which has rust, just enough to cause some Duroplast panels to seem loose. Next however, is the wire harness, there is none. Still cleaning and preping the engine compartment. The budget is always a concern, still saving for the real business of buying the motor and etc.
Might need to request financial support to speed up the process. Any advise on that?


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