# Build your own DC Motor



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Wear your safety glasses, might even recommend a helmet with face sheild encase anything broke apart!

You had my whole desk vibrating with that video! 

Very impressed with what you have made from junk! What RPM are you hitting? Got pictures of the motor, hard to see what's what in the video




Beshires1 said:


> I'm in the process of building a DC Motor Entirely from scratch. Every piece of this motor is made from salvaged parts. The armature shaft is actually a TH350 input lockup shaft from a transmission. Anyone with helpful ideas please help me out. I'm keeping up with the process on my web site: http://sites.google.com/site/diydcmotors/


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Etischer, Yes I take precautions (It makes me nervous as hell testing these creations). This small three coil rotor design uses 1" rare earth magnets (field) The brushes used in this one are Volkswagen generator brushes.I rely on Goop Glue to electrically insulate and to hold things in place. Here is a better video of this one so you can see the BB pole shoes in the armature, the commutator and the magnets. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5384542111527841740


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

I see the DC motor as a supreme torque motor like a diesel ICE would dream to be so wouldnt it be better to make full use of its qualities or shortcomings and design it as a pancake style instead of a cigar?

Then it could be direct driven with a driveshaft and run at less rpm, less heat and less wear. Armature will be shorter and lighter, Copper windings
will cool themselves better, no?

Imagine two 13inch by 7 inch motors side by side each connected to a wheel to power and acting like an LSD. Max of 1500rpm wouldnt
that work?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

a pancake motor would probably have more than 3 windings and would be difficult to balance. I think this guys off to a great start.


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## manic_monkey (Jun 24, 2008)

the motor looks great. what are you using as core material for the coils? I always thought iron filings set in epoxy would make a half decent and easy to form core material.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

manic monkey, You guessed it the core will be filled with cast steel shot and epoxy. I have ordered 20 lbs Cast Steel Shot/ Grit - S-280 Amasteel. I'm thinking about filling the entire 4" Pipe full with this mixture. The strips of PVC that are screwed to the outside can also be cast and replaced with this epoxy steel mixture.
eticher, this larger armature will have six coils. But that's the beauty of this design I will be able to remove three coils or run the planned six coils, by changing the coil to commutator jumper cables ( I Haven't got to this part yet). I'm planning on this motor to be slightly modular in that I won't be stuck with one motor and its preformance. Thanks for the Interest


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> You guessed it the core will be filled with cast steel shot and epoxy. I have ordered 20 lbs Cast Steel Shot/ Grit - S-280


Hey Dude,

The words "Rotary Pipe Bomb" come to mind?

major


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

manic_monkey said:


> the motor looks great. what are you using as core material for the coils? I always thought iron filings set in epoxy would make a half decent and easy to form core material.


I have been thinking amorphous steel nanopowder . made with a plasma torch , cooling gas and scrap steel . the super fast cooling makes amorphous non *crystalline*​ iron or steel said to be 4% improvement in *efficiency*​ . the *evaporating*​ metal on *condensing*​ makes *nanoparticles*​ that are amorphous . how about a 96% pm motor . how come I get these green split up posts.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

major said:


> Hey Dude,
> 
> The words "Rotary Pipe Bomb" come to mind?
> 
> major


 No, I really don"t think about it. Hell I consider myself lucky driving to work and back, without ever having a accident.The odds are the same I guess. But to ease everyones mind. To be honest, when I finish, you couldn't destroy this thing with a bomb. Of course it might make it difficult to find. Thanks for your concern.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

I've added updates to the motor build on August 10 2008 at 9:14 PM. http://sites.google.com/site/diydcmotors/


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

I've added more updates! August 18 2008.


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## skullbearer (Jul 9, 2008)

You make the entire process so freaking clear, I love it! I'm totally going to do this and kill myself with a big smile when I get the time.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Skullbearer, definitely, Go for it! Just use good building practices, over kill is recommended. Ya wouldn't want the armature chasing you around your shop at 40,000 RPM. I think I would have one hell of a grin if I survived and would have to clean the crap from my pants!


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updated project August 23 2008. Locate and attached commutator to armature shaft.


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## JeffPritchard (Jun 10, 2008)

This is very cool. I've often wondered why, around here at least, permanent magnet equates to AC motor.

Can't see any good reason that a PM DC motor doesn't make sense in an EV.

jp


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

My reasoning is that It would be more difficult (for me) to build a AC motor that really can't deliver the torque in the lower RPM range, as most medium sized DC motors can. I'm going to use permanent magnets as the field mainly because I happen to have two 2"X1" N 50 Rare earth magnets rated at 14,700 Gauss and have a pull force of 210 lbs. each. Recon how much energy would be used in a series wound DC motor energizing the field coils, to produce this much Gauss and pull force in one of the field coils?In four field coils? These Neodymium magnets can last forever with proper care. But they are dangerous to work with as they can break bones and crush fingers and hands or any other piece of you that happens to get caught between two of these when they slam together. They will fly threw the air a couple of feet when one is brought near the other, and slam together with enough force to shatter themselves.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates have been added to Brush Holder August 27 2008.


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## installerjack (Jul 25, 2007)

Good Job, don't give up.
Can I get on the waiting list?
Jack.
www.poormansev.com


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Give up ? Never! I'll either go down with the ship, Or drift silently back to shore. Muh-HA-HA-HA-HA ... Sorry, Got carried away. Installer Jack, thanks for the comment.


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

good to see you are still alive well done 

Please take care with the beast


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM, Thanks!... I will... And , I think I will dub this motor "The Beast" I'm just trying to be sure it don't bite the hands that built it.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates have been added, August 29,2008. Build a Motor from Scratch


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

Looks like all going to plan.

Can I ask how you secured the Tranny shaft on so it wont move?
All I can see is that the glue keeps it secure meaning the surface
area of the shaft is the only contact throughout to keep it from
spinning.
The reason I ask is because if this is the case I think the glue will
eventually give way unless there are fins or protusions on the shaft.

This is a learning experience for me too and thank you for your efforts.
It has made me see that lighter weight armatures should the next
evolution of the DC motor to increase efficiency and response.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM, Thats a good point. the shaft is connected only by surface contact with thick 1" Goop Glue caps. The entire inside is filled with The epoxy and steel shot mixture. I let a thick layer of epoxy only cure around the shaft (This was left very rough} Then packed the entire PVC full of the steel shot and epoxy mixture. After this fully cured I filled the other end with a 1" Goop Glue Cap. Both the Epoxy (for steel) and the Goop are unreasonably Tough and exceptional bonders. I do not think the shaft can possibly break free from the death grip to the armature body. But... I would suggest maybe attaching a couple of cable clamps, large enough to fit around the Shaft. I thought of dimple drilling the surface of the shaft and drilling small holes completely through the shaft and driving steel pins thru the shaft. But I thought that this might weaken the shaft. And remembering how hard the epoxy gets when cured (I've had to file this stuff down after it had cured not a pleasant job! )I figured I would put it to the test.If you decide to build a motor by all means use what ever means for securing and structurally strengthening that you deem necessary. I don't think one can over build something that if it fails could kill him. Always remember balance, and lack there of can cause catastrophic failure.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Great thread!

Do you know what RPM and torque numbers your motor has yet?


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

david85, No not yet. When the motor is finished and I get into the testing stage, I'll post the results here and on my site for all to see.


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

Just looking at the Armature of other common Dc motors and it looks like it could be hollow if designed properly. If a lightweight Armature can be manufactured with removable shaft and hollow alloy sections then this could be a revolutionary design no?

Eg instead of using the PVC like pipe an aluminum pipe could be used with three thick alloy walls on each end and three piece shaft. The shaft ends could be changed to suit splined, keyway or other designs without removing the centre section.

Armature drawing just to get my thinking across. The shaft I can get made up from small auto tailshafts or rear live
axles the rest from billets except for the alloy tubing which is available from an industrial supplier. Could I go this way?


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM, yes this looks like it will work very well. Don't forget to add threaded holes around the outer aluminum pipe. You will need a way to securely fasten the armature poles around this outer pipe.If you properly space the holes say using 4 or six holes per pole section you will be able to change the number of poles of the armature. For instance, if you have a six pole (3 sets of two poles) motor you could remove The pole pieces (coils) add a taller double pole piece and make the motor into a 12 pole motor (six sets of two poles). I think 12 poles is enough to allow you to use a four brush, brush holder. Hey remember me as your inspiration, I'd love to get my hands on one of your armature designs (just to tinker with). LOL


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> OHM, yes this looks like it will work very well. Don't forget to add threaded holes around the outer aluminum pipe. You will need a way to securely fasten the armature poles around this outer pipe.If you properly space the holes say using 4 or six holes per pole section you will be able to change the number of poles of the armature. For instance, if yow have a six pole (3 sets of two poles) motor you could remove The pole pieces (coils) add a taller double pole piece and make the motor into a 12 pole motor (six sets of two poles). I think 12 poles is enough to allow you to use a four brush, brush holder. Hey remember me as your inspiration, I'd love to get my hands on one of your armature designs (just to tinker with). LOL


LOL thanks! but since I have no experience with building any DC motors Im just tinkering with ideas to hopefully help improve them.
My background is in dinosaur auto mechanics and Ive finally made the change toward this area after almost giving up with LPG/propane.

Thank you for the tips on the armature I will keep plucking away with ideas. I just thought about the ones i posted after looking at your
website properly and observing your armature again.

Since aluminum is not really moving up in prices compared to steel there could be a bonus for aiming for a lighter weight armature design. 
Also car axles are throwaway items that if used properly could work well.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM said:


> LOL thanks! but since I have no experience with building any DC motors I'm just tinkering with ideas to hopefully help improve them.
> My background is in dinosaur auto mechanics and Ive finally made the change toward this area after almost giving up with LPG/propane.


 My experience in building a DC Motor is limited. I just jumped right in and commenced building this motor (Project).I'm yet to discover if it will even work. Your ability to design first, then act upon your designs will be a key to making a modular motor a success. As you know there are no modular DC Motors currently available. You may be inclined to "Edit" your drawing to keep it away from the Greedy. Again, thats a nice design job!


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> My experience in building a DC Motor is limited. I just jumped right in and commenced building this motor (Project).I'm yet to discover if it will even work. Your ability to design first, then act upon your designs will be a key to making a modular motor a success. As you know there are no modular DC Motors currently available. You may be inclined to "Edit" your drawing to keep it away from the Greedy. Again, thats a nice design job!


I put the property of this website to make sure but dont know what else i should do to make it open source?


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM said:


> I put the property of this website to make sure but dont know what else i should do to make it open source?


Thats cool making it "open source", These days it's hard to find anyone with great ideas that are willing to share them with others without thought of financial gains.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

I've updated my progress with the motor build. See "Build a Motor From Scratch". I had a minor set-back but the build must go on! Update: September 06, 2008.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

New video added to website! Check it out!


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

The workmanship looks top-notch, have you tested torque or temperature yet..?

and one question: I know that duct tape is the 'handy-mans friend', but why duct tape and not rubber tape? 

I really think your motor is, sheer genius. Good work!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

question: Are you planning on bigger more heat proof modifications to the final motor? I realize that this just proof of concept, but a lot of stuff just doesn't look hefty enough to deal with any serious torque/currents.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

fugdabug, no I haven't tested the torque or temperature. I was having a problem wiring the coils (starter motor coils)to the commutator.I couldn't get the motor to rotate. The motor was drawing a lot of current but no volts. I decided to wind some testing coils, to help me figure out the problem.I found out that the six coil design is a odd bird, not many if any exist. And the animation (on the web site)of the six coil is a brushless design. Oh, and the duct tape has string in it, I use the duct tape to secure the coils before removing them from the coil former.The coils have to be binded tightly to stay in tight and in shape.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> question: Are you planning on bigger more heat proof modifications to the final motor? I realize that this just proof of concept, but a lot of stuff just doesn't look hefty enough to deal with any serious torque/currents.


Yes, I plan on using things I've learned on my own and from others who have good suggestions, to build it intoa more powerful, stable motor. I know that the 16 gauge coils are way to small to handle much amperage. And a fan in the motor is a good ides also. It would have been helpful to have an idea of number of turns per coil what size wire, ect. I haven't seen the inside of a large DC motor So everything I do is a learning experience for me. But, I love doing this stuff!!!


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> Yes, I plan on using things I've learned on my own and from others who have good suggestions, to build it intoa more powerful, stable motor. I know that the 16 gauge coils are way to small to handle much amperage. And a fan in the motor is a good ides also. It would have been helpful to have an idea of number of turns per coil what size wire, ect. I haven't seen the inside of a large DC motor So everything I do is a learning experience for me. But, I love doing this stuff!!!


Be safe, BUT JUST GO FOR IT!!! I like the fact that you used the rare earth magnets! I found magnets for sale from a site that match those and had thought of something of an experiment similar (just for fun!)... Man, you did a really good job with concept. And the fact that it was built from scratch is most excellent. And the string in the duct tape was a good consideration... as a metalsmith I work with Copper, Silver, Gold, Tin, Brass and Iron so I understand the dreaded 'Sproing!!!' as you watch your assemblage go to pieces! ~8) Press on! I want to see what you come up with next!


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

Amazing apple cart DC motor!!


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

LOL!, yes, ain't she something!


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

When ya sell them in numbers you can really say theyre crate motors. 
Siemens square styled motors dont stand a chance!


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

I'm thinking more on the lines of a octagon.


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> I'm thinking more on the lines of a octagon.


Good Qi, Grasshopper... one covers all eight sides...


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

¨OctapuDC¨


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM said:


> ¨OctapuDC¨


 LOL!, yes, but, ain't she something!


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## judebert (Apr 16, 2008)

OHM said:


> I put the property of this website to make sure but dont know what else i should do to make it open source?


Just a quick sidebar on the nature of open source: you get a copyright on anything original you create as soon as you create it. That means nobody else has the right to copy it (hence <i>copy</i>right -- and that includes sharing, or copying to display it on a website), modify it, sell it, display it, or make their own version of it (known as a <i>derivative work</i>. 

If you want to give up any of those rights, all you need to do is state the terms. For instance, state "I place this work in the public domain" if you want anyone to be able to do anything with it, with no restrictions at all.

Many artists find that abhorrent. They want credit for their work, and possibly money. Luckily, the Creative Commons has a variety of licenses that let you pick what others may do with your work. Then you state, "This work is licensed CC:sharealike" or whatever else you want.

One popular license is the GNU GPL. It allows anyone to do anything with your work, as long as they also use the GPL for any derivative works they create, and include source code with the work. To use it, simply state, "This work is licensed under the GNU GPL version 2 or later"; see their site for other options.

Anyway. If you want it to be Open Source or public domain, you just have to say so. Then it is.


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## kartl (Sep 10, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> I'm in the process of building a DC Motor Entirely from scratch. Every piece of this motor is made from salvaged parts. The armature shaft is actually a TH350 input lockup shaft from a transmission. Anyone with helpful ideas please help me out. I'm keeping up with the process on my web site: http://sites.google.com/site/diydcmotors/


 Thats very useful 

Eat my dust...


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

kartl said:


> Thats very useful
> 
> Eat my dust...


WOW! you own all of these???


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

kartl said:


> Thats very useful
> 
> Eat my dust...


I don't know if you mean you own an Audi A7 or what... but either way...
it just means you have bought into the ignorance of the idea that we can spend a finite resource for fun while the rest of the planet 'eats your dust'...
well 'enjoy'. We have more fun and practical work to do...
EAT THAT...


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

Beshires1 said:


> Updates have been added, August 29,2008. Build a Motor from Scratch


Beshires - 
You're a freakin' maniac! I love that thing!

I've been swamped elsewhere, and haven't been here in a while. I just saw your motor project. Yeah, it looks a bit like a monster and less like a regular "store bought" motor, but it's a damn sight more than any other "homemade" motor I've seen.

Of course, you've already gotten all the cautions about wearing a protective suit of armor and signing a full legal disclaimer, but I'd still like to add a "be safe" on top of the pile. I admire, respect, and sometimes emulate your decision to build. I've also had the feeling of "Well, I can't afford or don't like what I can _buy_, so I'll make my own."

In all seriousness, make sure to get and post video of any failure modes and what you learn from them. I've worked in product development for years, and sometimes that's the most valuable information. (Also often the most expensive...) And yeah, it can also be the most entertaining.

Anyone who wants to appreciate the effort it takes to make something should try to design and build one themselves. 

-Mark


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Wirecutter said:


> Beshires -
> You're a freakin' maniac! I love that thing!
> 
> I've been swamped elsewhere, and haven't been here in a while. I just saw your motor project. Yeah, it looks a bit like a monster and less like a regular "store bought" motor, but it's a damn sight more than any other "homemade" motor I've seen.
> ...


Yes, I understand Frankenstein's thrill! I'ts alive! But I can do better. Thank you and the others for the admiration. But No applause please, just throw money!


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates have been added on September 13, 2008. http://sites.google.com/site/diydcmotors/build-a-motor-from-scratch

Damn it! Just burned the brushes on my variac. Thats why the motor stops at the end of last video. Now I'm constructing a new brush from a old motor brush. My variac is around 40 years old , can't buy replacement brushes for it.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

I'm back in business, I replaced the wiper brush in my Variac. made a beefy beast of a wiper from a motor brush.I also replaced a shorted out bridge rectifier, which caused the original wiper to burn in the first place. The Bridge was a 400V 50 amp. Anywho, I 've had to pull a little preventive maintenance on my motor testing power supply.(Which, can you believe I built myself)


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

I gotta agree... YOU ARE A MANIAC... of the good sort!!! Press on!


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## Beyonder (Sep 18, 2008)

Do you have any idea what range your going to get with this as far as HP and torque are concerned? And how did you calculate these ?


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Beyonder said:


> Do you have any idea what range your going to get with this as far as HP and torque are concerned? And how did you calculate these ?


 No, I haven't got a clue . as stated in #39 of this thread. There are so many variables involved. Like, Number of turns per coil? Size of wire? Size of the armature? weight? Number of coils on a armature? Number of field poles? number of brushes? What is the expected amperage range? (this is determined by the size or gauge of the wire in the coils).The armature can run higher amperage than suggested for the wire size, because the armature is basically a mechanical pulse width modulator, in that as the motor turns it chops the input voltage, and current, distributing it equally to all coils. But...the higher the rpm the faster a individual coil will become energized to the point where the high amperage catches up with its deadly heating action and my motor like all motors will burn up. I haven't found any set rules in designing a electric motor. I will have to devise a way to test hp (dynometers are very expensive). If you have a large 20 hp motor, even a burned up one that you can dismantle, count the turns on armature, note the wire size, likewise for the field coils. then you can duplicate, or at least get a better starting point than I have. I will take any useful information I acquire and post it. Anyone who attempts this does so at their own risk. I work by trial and error.


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## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

What is needed is a couple of willing machinists or even ONE who has the ability to machine the casing and whatever parts for duplication for you at minimal expense of gratis for the experiment. You could then turn the box into a serious motor housing with the proper bearings and faceplates... even if you did the armature and field 'homemade' brushes and windings too. Then you may be able to produce a motor to YOUR specification with your design and in various forms until you hit the 'perfecta' motor. OR more simply: buy a smithy 'three-in-one' mill, drill, lathe. You could also spend about $700.00 and buy one from Northern Tool... it isn't that hard to operate. And it would probably give you the freedom to create your own design with good accuracy (not ten thousandths but close), good enough to do a motor casing... and experiment with machining custom pieces (such as new brushes and assy's). Just a thought.


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

I think you have what it takes to make a bigger version but I recommend wider like a Lynch just using your version of it.

It will be easier to build a compact armature and housing.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates have been added Saturday, September 20, 2008. Added a "Useful Information" Page. Gettin ready to show how to convert over to a series wound DC Motor.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

OHM said:


> I think you have what it takes to make a bigger version but I recommend wider like a Lynch just using your version of it.
> 
> It will be easier to build a compact armature and housing.


OHM, I just curious, But I noticed that you kinda lean toward a more pancake design. (like the Lynch). Are there any Known advantages of such a design? higher torque? I Know that one style of pancake motor utilized both sides of the armature coils, producing higher torque and higher efficiency. Just lookin for your ideas on such a motor.


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## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

The pancake motors have a bigger diameter so they get more torque at the expense of less RPM.

I've just spent quite a while researching this. What I came up with is that the pancake design makes sense _if you can go direct drive and be inside your motor's optimal range._ Or if you have space constraints that only allow the motor to be so long.

I kept wondering, if the pancake motors (like outrunners) are so much better, why doesn't industry do it that way? Well, the truth is that the industry makes the best tool for the cost, considering weight and power and expense and a few other things. Most motors in the power range we're talking about are assumed to be stationary, so weight is an issue. You can spend a bit more money and get less weight.

Anyway, if you can get by with direct drive without being too far from the motor's optimal RPM, then it makes sense in terms of efficiency, cost and weight. If you would wind up running really slow, then your motor efficiency tanks and you risk heat problems and burnt windings for a mediocre system.


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

When looking at all the DC motors available for EVs and their characteristic and torque curves I really believe in larger diameter motors not necessarily pancake but larger diameter to improve torque using less current draw from your batteries.
This is a vital part of improving battery life and also using the natural leverage rule to the point where centrifugal forces dont impede.

Id say the main aim for an electric motor in general is to make power efficiently and provide this power reliably and if you can eliminate the bits attached to it like a gearbox even better.

In reality the pancake motor is not debilitated by low rpm, of course it will have lower rpm than a smaller diameter longer motor but why do we need to spin and engine to 5000rpm when 2500rpm will do and normal 24-25 diameter wheel/tire combos only manage around max 1400rpm?
On average even less so If externally fanned (as most drive motors should be to stop debris buildup and water) the low rpm wont matter in fact the less rpm the longer everything will last, eg brushes, bearings and therefore efficiency.

Some 13.5 inch GE motors are still making 4500-5k rpm. 
Therefore as long as centrifugal forces are kept low a compact 14-16inch
diameter motor with 12 inch length plus another 4-5 inches for brush and drive ends should be a nice direct drive motor for almost any vehicle.

I saw a wide short motor (Nelco) in an ocean tourist mini-bus getting a rear suspension bushing at my uncle in laws workshop in Japan, I spoke to the driver a very enthusiastic man and he said they re-freshed the motor recently and where surprised that running 120volts it made 100hp on some kind of dyno at some engineering place. I looked at the motor with his help and was surprised at its futuristic shape. Its made by Nelco but owned by Polaron an english company and its one company that I found aimed for these big diameter dimensions on some of their motors. Especially this model on the bus which was a N180SM. It was also my first exposure to electric mini buses.
I gather due to their prices being in UK sterling, labor costs and workmanship ate into any of their profits they never took off. Also its not a design like yours using magnets just mostly series wound motors. Their unique monster Sepex versions where used in the GMC G-Vans but in longer type formats.
http://evalbum.com/1413
http://evalbum.com/img/1413/1413c.jpg
Below is a pic of the 180 model a 6000rpm 12.6inch diameter motor. Or the Octopudc-like design you were looking at  
The rear section housing is large as it carries an internal fan, the narrow front section has the brushes. Not ordinary
brush layout as I found them to be like on the pancake motors flat disc like commutator to save space.









Now if you can incorporate your design into one of these it would be very interesting.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Up dates have been added, Thursday, September 25, 2008. Go to Coils and Formers page.


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

Guess this is a bit of a thread hijack post but I figure too many motor threads would be redundant.

If I want to modify the Mars *brushless* to be direct drive for my application (2000 rpm) at 84 volts (it is currently does 4000 at 48), would modifying the windings be the correct way to go about it? I think I would need 3.44 times more windings of wire that is 3.44 times less volumous per length. Could this possibly lead to any electro-mechanical problems? Would it be more efficient this way (besides of course the extra efficiency from direct drive)?

I guess my concern is you always see motors with large diameters to increase torque, would I be messing something up by modifying windings instead of diameter?

Thanks all.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Well After a good supper of Gator last nite, I can get back to work on the motor. OLE MISS 31... FLORIDA GATORS 30


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> Well After a good supper of Gator last nite, I can get back to work on the motor. OLE MISS 31... FLORIDA GATORS 30


A well played game, you guys were impressive. Since it was only one point we should do it again sometime. How about December 6th in Atlanta?

Joe


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> A well played game, you guys were impressive. Since it was only one point we should do it again sometime. How about December 6th in Atlanta?
> 
> Joe


SEC Championship? Cool.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

I've added updates to the web site. Ya gotta see the new video. Its on the opening page. DIY DC MOTOR 4.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

abudabit said:


> Guess this is a bit of a thread hijack post but I figure too many motor threads would be redundant.
> 
> If I want to modify the Mars *brushless* to be direct drive for my application (2000 rpm) at 84 volts (it is currently does 4000 rpm at 48V), would modifying the windings be the correct way to go about it? I think I would need 3.44 times more windings of wire that is 3.44 times less volumous per length. Could this possibly lead to any electro-mechanical problems? Would it be more efficient this way (besides of course the extra efficiency from direct drive)?
> 
> ...


I don't get it. I mean, if the motor produces 4000 at 48V and you Need 2000 rpm @ 84V aren't you asking the motor to be less efficient? Anyway I think adding more turns of finer wire(less voluminous?) will increase the rpm but I think your torque will suffer as a result.You are talking about a micro-brushless DC Motor? And you would definitely be messin up modifying the diameter of the motor. Lest you got one like mine.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates have been added on Saturday October 4, 2008. I've added a Magnets page, with useful information and photos of my revised Neo-Magnet field setup.


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## Gary Sconce (Oct 4, 2008)

Very impressive work. You are to be commended on it. I have to say, the second video at slow speed sounded _exactly_ like my 1950 Chevy 292 straight six hot rod engine. _Exactly. _I almost thought you had it off to the side of the camera... hehehe.

I could see the resonant vibrational frequencies in the blurring of the rotating assembly. But, for home made, that ain't bad. 

Isn't it fun to do something most other people don't do?


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## 3dplane (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey Beshires1!
I've checked out your site. Looks like you're having some fun there.
I could not tell for sure from the pictures,but it looks like you are not using any "back iron". (steel cage around the outside of the magnets or the wound field).
I know you put steel inside the coil but if there is no back iron you are loosing half the flux in both cases.(PM & wound field). 
It would be nice if it was one continuous piece of steel for a better closed magnetic circuit but even if it's just a piece of steel stuck to the magnet (or the coil) you would see major efficiency boost. 
Ideally it should be thick enough material to stop magnetism escaping to the outside.(ferrous metal should not be sticking to it on the other side of the magnet)
What it will also do is slow down the rpm and give you more torque for a less power in.
Maybe you are already doing this, like I said could not tell for sure.
Barna


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## abudabit (Sep 18, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> I don't get it. I mean, if the motor produces 4000 at 48V and you Need 2000 rpm @ 84V aren't you asking the motor to be less efficient? Anyway I think adding more turns of finer wire(less voluminous?) will increase the rpm but I think your torque will suffer as a result.You are talking about a micro-brushless DC Motor? And you would definitely be messin up modifying the diameter of the motor. Lest you got one like mine.



The N-m / Amp (torque per amp) increases proportionally to increases in windings. RPM / v decreases proportionally to increases in windings. Power stays the same, in an ideal world. So what I am thinking is the difference is less current is needed for torque so there is less heat dissipation.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Gary Sconce said:


> Very impressive work. You are to be commended on it. I have to say, the second video at slow speed sounded _exactly_ like my 1950 Chevy 292 straight six hot rod engine. _Exactly. _I almost thought you had it off to the side of the camera... hehehe.
> 
> I could see the resonant vibrational frequencies in the blurring of the rotating assembly. But, for home made, that ain't bad.
> 
> Isn't it fun to do something most other people don't do?


I gotta admit I'm having fun. Its more like a obsession. What you can't see in the video is that at high RPM the thing wanders so that I had to pin it to the wall with my foot to film the video. You should see the video "DIY DC Motor 3" watch the video's ending closely. Its uploaded to Google "more from user".



> 3dplane *Re: Build your own DC Motor*
> Hey Beshires1!
> I've checked out your site. Looks like you're having some fun there.
> I could not tell for sure from the pictures,but it looks like you are not using any "back iron". (steel cage around the outside of the magnets or the wound field).
> ...


Thats a good piece of info Barna, thanks. I'll give it a go! Please note. the wooden box should be replaced by steel or aluminum, Its only purpose is make modifications easier, and to be able to video the inside of a operational motor.Again thanks for the info.

abudabit *Re: Build your own DC Motor*
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Beshires1*  
_I don't get it. I mean, if the motor produces 4000 at 48V and you Need 2000 rpm @ 84V aren't you asking the motor to be less efficient? Anyway I think adding more turns of finer wire(less voluminous?) will increase the rpm but I think your torque will suffer as a result.You are talking about a micro-brushless DC Motor? And you would definitely be messin up modifying the diameter of the motor. Lest you got one like mine._



> Abudibut
> The N-m / Amp (torque per amp) increases proportionally to increases in windings. RPM / v decreases proportionally to increases in windings. Power stays the same, in an ideal world. So what I am thinking is the difference is less current is needed for torque so there is less heat dissipation.


 There you go!


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates were added Sunday October 5, 2008. Go to the "Neodymium Magnets" page. I added a amazing video you must see.


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## buzzforb (Aug 16, 2008)

I thought you might be interested in this article.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=135239


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Now that is odd silver must be cheaper than copper? I guess if you could use smaller wire that outperforms the copper it probably would average out


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updates have been added New page 3 coil rotor conversion see "3 Coil Armature". Thursday 16, 2008


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Updated have been added Saturday, October 18 2008. Added new updated video "DC Motor 7". Its on a new page added called " Video Page" The update shows the running of "the Beast" after installing new magnet array, and doing some balancing on the rotor. Check it out!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

well according to your video page you are doing about 7 hp based on wattage consumed, BUT, I am not sure of the efficiency so I can't really say. reality guessing is about 1 hp. not bad at all

RPM ought to be easy if you have someone with a model airplane prop tach and a bit of white paint.

actual loads can be derived it you have access to things that are driven by known rates like compressor pumps, not aware of how to make a accurate brake hp device.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> well according to your video page you are doing about 7 hp based on wattage consumed, BUT, I am not sure of the efficiency so I can't really say. reality guessing is about 1 hp. not bad at all
> 
> RPM ought to be easy if you have someone with a model airplane prop tach and a bit of white paint.
> 
> actual loads can be derived it you have access to things that are driven by known rates like compressor pumps, not aware of how to make a accurate brake hp device.


Thanks for the info. Here is a RPM Gauge I might try.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Thats the coolest idea I've seen all year. Incredibly simpe design.


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

david85 said:


> Thats the coolest idea I've seen all year. Incredibly simpe design.


Hey David85 are you complimenting the motor of the RPM guage?


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> Well After a good supper of Gator last nite, I can get back to work on the motor. OLE MISS 31... FLORIDA GATORS 30


How's it feel, being the only team to beat the National Champions?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Beshires1 said:


> Hey David85 are you complimenting the motor of the RPM guage?


oops, a little late, but I was refering to the RPM gauge. The motor project goes without saying


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> How's it feel, being the only team to beat the National Champions?


I think Florida was #1 when we went to the swamp and wupped em. We can't wait till next year when they provide us with catering service. Did you see the steak feast provide by Texas? Those Mississippi boys sure look hungry to me!


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

Beshires1 said:


> I think Florida was #1 when we went to the swamp and wupped em. We can't wait till next year when they provide us with catering service. Did you see the steak feast provide by Texas? Those Mississippi boys sure look hungry to me!


Is that what you call a one-point-game? a "wupping"?


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> Is that what you call a one-point-game? a "wupping"?


Naaa, but by Tebow's reaction after they got beat, you would-a thought we pounded them. Actually, he was in shock. We beat them physically on the field. The trama they suffered afterward was the result of the mental wupping when a gator's brain registers........defeat..


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## Beshires1 (May 24, 2008)

Sorry for those here who have tried to visit my DIY DC Motor site It has been deleted. Someone hacked into my site and screwed up everything to the point that I couldn't save it. Moved stuff around and deleted a lot of content.
This is the reason I changed my sig for now. I've been working an another motor. Its a... Well You can look here and see. But this is only a test model there will be more to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfjs6gM8M6Q


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