# EV2 :1986 Toyota Corolla



## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I pulled my 86 Toyota Corolla into the carport this evening. It will be my second EV project. It has been sitting for years with a blown engine, and I didn't consider it a good project because of the automatic transmission. I've changed my mind. Here's what I would like to do:

Have a 5 mile range
Hoping for better than stock acceleration and a 40mph top speed
I want to keep it under $500
I want to use a forklift motor with MPaulHolmes' open source controller and 6 or 7 12v marine deep cycle batteries​
The hardest part will be the controller. I have zero knowledge in that area....​


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Wow, another EV already!

Keeping the budget under $500 is going to be tough, even with the Open Source controller, but it should be doable with patience and lots of scrounging. Are you going to take anything from your other EV, or do you want to have 2 of them? 

Do the usual, Craigslist, eBay and salvage yards. I would first check out all the local salvage yards to save on shipping, and if you can get forklift parts with the motor, like contactors, cabling and throttle that would be sweet.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> Wow, another EV already!
> 
> Keeping the budget under $500 is going to be tough, even with the Open Source controller, but it should be doable with patience and lots of scrounging. Are you going to take anything from your other EV, or do you want to have 2 of them?
> 
> Do the usual, Craigslist, eBay and salvage yards. I would first check out all the local salvage yards to save on shipping, and if you can get forklift parts with the motor, like contactors, cabling and throttle that would be sweet.


 No, I don't want to steal any parts from E-Sandra. Since the biggest expense by far was the controller, I think it's very doable. Also, I want to do a plug like Gavin (kiwiEV) did, so that I can use the chargers on both cars- that's $120 saved right there- the second biggest expense!


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

vpoppv said:


> No, I don't want to steal any parts from E-Sandra. Since the biggest expense by far was the controller, I think it's very doable. Also, I want to do a plug like Gavin (kiwiEV) did, so that I can use the chargers on both cars- that's $120 saved right there- the second biggest expense!


Having the external charger (or modular charging!) is a great idea for saving money. Another EV'er actually made his control system modular so he could drag his controller, throttle, contactors, etc so he could move from his EV truck to his EV sedan in seconds without spending a coupling thousand on a new high end system for the second EV.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> Having the external charger (or modular charging!) is a great idea for saving money. Another EV'er actually made his control system modular so he could drag his controller, throttle, contactors, etc so he could move from his EV truck to his EV sedan in seconds without spending a coupling thousand on a new high end system for the second EV.


Hmmmmmm, LOL! Yup, just an Anderson connector and a couple smaller connectors away! I LIKE it! I'll have to seriously think about that one! I'm having trouble seeing how I would easily unlatch the throttle cable though, might have to leave that intact. I highly doubt a carburated 86 car would have a TPS too, so I might have to break down and buy a $1.99 Radio Shack pot for this one- then make the rest modular. Regardless, I want to build a controller because that sounds like a real challenge and it fascinates me. I'm going to have fun pulling apart old car amps and what-not to see if I can use anything in them....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> I want to keep it under $500
> I want to use a forklift motor with MPaulHolmes' open source controller and 6 or 7 12v marine deep cycle batteries​
> The hardest part will be the controller. I have zero knowledge in that area....​


heck you can really keep cost down if you can the controller, and just have an on/off switch.... BAM. Starting in like 3rd would be a slow start, and 1st would be a tire squeaker!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

jamesbattery said:


> Hi, I'm James Cheng from FLY Power Industries Limited in China. ...we are professional battery manufacture and exporter, hope we can cooperate and help you get the best deal.​




James.... while this group is generally interested in good deals on large Li batteries (100aH, 160aH, 200aH) it is generally NOT appreciated when salespeople hijack an unrelated thread to insert their sales information. If you want to START a thread in the appropriate section for people selling components you are welcome to do so..... but please also post prices, because thats what we are going to ask you!

Or... just put your URL in your signature,and participate in a thread ON TOPIC.​


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

You could probably build the open source controller a lot cheaper if you just use the control board and scrounge parts for a custom power stage and enclosure. I've built mine for about $300usd using bits from ebay and the junk pile.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=147265&postcount=75


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> You could probably build the open source controller a lot cheaper if you just use the control board and scrounge parts for a custom power stage and enclosure. I've built mine for about $300usd using bits from ebay and the junk pile.
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=147265&postcount=75


 I've seen all of your YouTube videos and read your posts, but I have to admit, it is all going WAY over my head. It will be a steep hill to climb for me to learn about all this stuff, but I am up for the challenge!


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

On a steep learning curve myself. I'll hopefully have some testing done in the next week to 10 days with the controller in the car under heavy load. Thats the real test. If it works out i'll do up some instructions.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

vpoppv said:


> I want to keep it under $500


C'mon vpoppv... $500? I hate to say never...but geez...$500? Is it possible?.... I paid nothing for my motor...and rebuilt it myself, I think the brushes, bearings and paint were over $200 alone. Hope the brakes are good, and the tires... and the ...the.. the... lmao... dang... good luck with that budget thing!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> C'mon vpoppv... $500? I hate to say never...but geez...$500? Is it possible?.... I paid nothing for my motor...and rebuilt it myself, I think the brushes, bearings and paint were over $200 alone. Hope the brakes are good, and the tires... and the ...the.. the... lmao... dang... good luck with that budget thing!


 That's only $60 less than my current car *PLUS *the fact that I don't have to buy the chargers this time 'round, which was the 2nd biggest expense. I think it's very doable or I wouldn't waste my time. Other than the engine, the donor car was being used as a daily driver so it should be sound mechanically. In fact, I just put two new tires on it shortly before the engine started knocking. While I am sure that my bailing wire and duct tape approach is a huge turnoff to the majority, I think that there may be a small segment of this group that may enjoy the benefit of a low budget conversion....


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Your objective of the car having better than stock acceleration getting to 40mph is going to be tough with the objective $500 price tag. You will need to have batteries, motor, and a controller that can provide enough amperage at the voltage you choose, so the lower the voltage the more amps it pulls from the batteries. Since you only need 40mph you might not need a very high voltage which means a 72 volt system with 6 of the 12 volt batteries like your other car might work but to accelerate faster than stock is going to pull high amps from the batteries, a controller that can handle pulling the high amps, and a motor that will accept all the power your controller tries to provide. You will either need some decent($$$) batteries or only use that extra acceleration when you really need to use it for those batteries to last, the marine batteries you want to use generally get drained at a slower rate over time than your EV application will. Your 5 mile range makes things a little easier in the battery department though. What batteries did you use with your last EV, were these standard car starting batteries? If you are using those, they might work well right away but I wouldn't go along without expecting to replace them sooner rather than later, in a car they usually only take a heavy drain for a few seconds and then once the car starts they receive a charge from a cars alternator. Draining those in a cycling application may cause them to live a very short life. Marine batteries will do better but for your first EV, consider the possible upcoming costs, I don't know how many $7 batteries you will be able to come across for that car and how many might not make the grade.

I think that the acceleration expectation will be the most difficult part of your $500 goal and the battery costs getting the deep cycle marine batteries could be tough to fit into your goal, but a slight compromise to the acceleration goal and putting a few used pieces such as a used motor and controller(if you end up going with the open source idea) like you did with your first EV will help you brings costs down. It might take a decent amount of work but you were very close to $500 on your last conversion but I think you will be able to do it. Good luck!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

MN Driver said:


> Your objective of the car having better than stock acceleration getting to 40mph is going to be tough with the objective $500 price tag. You will need to have batteries, motor, and a controller that can provide enough amperage at the voltage you choose, so the lower the voltage the more amps it pulls from the batteries. Since you only need 40mph you might not need a very high voltage which means a 72 volt system with 6 of the 12 volt batteries like your other car might work but to accelerate faster than stock is going to pull high amps from the batteries, a controller that can handle pulling the high amps, and a motor that will accept all the power your controller tries to provide. You will either need some decent($$$) batteries or only use that extra acceleration when you really need to use it for those batteries to last, the marine batteries you want to use generally get drained at a slower rate over time than your EV application will. Your 5 mile range makes things a little easier in the battery department though. What batteries did you use with your last EV, were these standard car starting batteries? If you are using those, they might work well right away but I wouldn't go along without expecting to replace them sooner rather than later, in a car they usually only take a heavy drain for a few seconds and then once the car starts they receive a charge from a cars alternator. Draining those in a cycling application may cause them to live a very short life. Marine batteries will do better but for your first EV, consider the possible upcoming costs, I don't know how many $7 batteries you will be able to come across for that car and how many might not make the grade.
> 
> I think that the acceleration expectation will be the most difficult part of your $500 goal and the battery costs getting the deep cycle marine batteries could be tough to fit into your goal, but a slight compromise to the acceleration goal and putting a few used pieces such as a used motor and controller(if you end up going with the open source idea) like you did with your first EV will help you brings costs down. It might take a decent amount of work but you were very close to $500 on your last conversion but I think you will be able to do it. Good luck!


I realize that the acceleration is the hardest to achieve, but it's not like I am going to go out of my way to get it, just my hope. I'm using deep cycle marine batteries right now, but they are way more than I need. Every day, they take less time to charge. They take about an hour now, and less time every day. I figure if I can maintain these batteries, I can use them for my next project and figure something else out for my current one- maybe step down a size in battery- they have plenty of those at the boat place I got the originals from, and have a pretty constant flow of both types regularly.....


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Not that I particularly recommend it (even though I have done it): You could run a shunt/sepex motor. Your control can just be a contactor switch. My sepex motor idles at 1600 rpm at 48 V. The acceleration is much better than expected. You change speeds by shifting and slipping the clutch. Since you'll be at 2 or 3x ICE idle speed, and have to slip the clutch for each gear, your clutch won't live as long. It's also harder on the batteries, and will hurt your range, since you'll get big current spikes each time you shift unless you do a lot of clutch slipping. On the flip side, you get a burst of regen when you downshift, or down hills. For a really cheap charger, you could charge up the one EV, and use it to tow the other EV to charge it.  (I actually did this with my car, you can read about it on my web page http://explodingdinosaurs.com/9electric/2009saltflats/ .) Note that towing to charge only works for EVs with regen.

The next big refinement would be to put a welder rheostat in series with the sepex field, to change rpm, then you would need to slip the clutch just to start.

Another thought is using a golf cart 3 speed contactor or retactor controller. John Wayland, and I imagine other old timer EVers, used Ford starter relays to make their own. I played with some, they make a buzzing noise (I'd guess arcing) and get really hot above about 200 Amps.


vpoppv said:


> I realize that the acceleration is the hardest to achieve, but it's not like I am going to go out of my way to get it, just my hope. I'm using deep cycle marine batteries right now, but they are way more than I need. Every day, they take less time to charge. They take about an hour now, and less time every day. I figure if I can maintain these batteries, I can use them for my next project and figure something else out for my current one- maybe step down a size in battery- they have plenty of those at the boat place I got the originals from, and have a pretty constant flow of both types regularly.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Not that I particularly recommend it (even though I have done it): You could run a shunt/sepex motor. Your control can just be a contactor switch. My sepex motor idles at 1600 rpm at 48 V. The acceleration is much better than expected. You change speeds by shifting and slipping the clutch. Since you'll be at 2 or 3x ICE idle speed, and have to slip the clutch for each gear, your clutch won't live as long. It's also harder on the batteries, and will hurt your range, since you'll get big current spikes each time you shift unless you do a lot of clutch slipping. On the flip side, you get a burst of regen when you downshift, or down hills. For a really cheap charger, you could charge up the one EV, and use it to tow the other EV to charge it.  (I actually did this with my car, you can read about it on my web page http://explodingdinosaurs.com/9electric/2009saltflats/ .) Note that towing to charge only works for EVs with regen.
> 
> The next big refinement would be to put a welder rheostat in series with the sepex field, to change rpm, then you would need to slip the clutch just to start.
> 
> Another thought is using a golf cart 3 speed contactor or retactor controller. John Wayland, and I imagine other old timer EVers, used Ford starter relays to make their own. I played with some, they make a buzzing noise (I'd guess arcing) and get really hot above about 200 Amps.


A few days ago when you posted those videos, I was just shocked at the speed you managed on just 48 volts! That is very impressive indeed. The current car I am working on is an automatic though, so no clutch slipping will be happening here. And I DO still have the old setup from the golf cart that I have been itching to try out, but it's only 36 volts. Judging from the performance I am getting at 72v, I don't think that 36v in a heavier car with a bigger motor will be too appealing.And, truth be told, I just want to build a controller. In any case, I think I'm going to get some more batteries tomorrow to play with.....


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

If you building a controller I may have a spare lem current sensor that paul holmes sent to me. Looks like i wont need it so i'll donate it to your cause and save you $30. Will know for sure in a week or so.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Yeah, finally some praise for my speed! My ICE racer buddies were not impressed! Power is Volts * Amps. Without a controller I had no current limit (aside from blowing up thin gauge cables and melting battery posts, which I did during testing). I might have been drawing even 1000+ Amps when accelerating, that would taper down to about 200 Amps. I also had a really stiff battery pack since I was using Optimas in a double string.

I'm going to try field weakening with 48V, we'll see how fast I can go then, I'll post the result. Maybe I'll go hunting for the 48V NEDRA record. 

Is the golf cart controller a contactor controller, or a fancy solid state controller like a Curtis? If it is a contactor controller, might you be able to go higher than 36 V?


vpoppv said:


> A few days ago when you posted those videos, I was just shocked at the speed you managed on just 48 volts! That is very impressive indeed. The current car I am working on is an automatic though, so no clutch slipping will be happening here. And I DO still have the old setup from the golf cart that I have been itching to try out, but it's only 36 volts. Judging from the performance I am getting at 72v, I don't think that 36v in a heavier car with a bigger motor will be too appealing.And, truth be told, I just want to build a controller. In any case, I think I'm going to get some more batteries tomorrow to play with.....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> If you building a controller I may have a spare lem current sensor that paul holmes sent to me. Looks like i wont need it so i'll donate it to your cause and save you $30. Will know for sure in a week or so.


 Wow, that would be awesome!! I hope the shipping charges won't be that much!!


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Yeah, finally some praise for my speed! My ICE racer buddies were not impressed! Power is Volts * Amps. Without a controller I had no current limit (aside from blowing up thin gauge cables and melting battery posts, which I did during testing). I might have been drawing even 1000+ Amps when accelerating, that would taper down to about 200 Amps. I also had a really stiff battery pack since I was using Optimas in a double string.
> 
> I'm going to try field weakening with 48V, we'll see how fast I can go then, I'll post the result. Maybe I'll go hunting for the 48V NEDRA record.
> 
> Is the golf cart controller a contactor controller, or a fancy solid state controller like a Curtis? If it is a contactor controller, might you be able to go higher than 36 V?


Those Optimas sound like great batteries! 
The golf cart has a contactor controller, but I went on some golf cart forums and they warned against overvolting them because those wire coil thingies supposedly get red hot. The guy that gave the advice had the exact same golf cart I got my motor out of, and he ran his at 96v for a year and ended up frying it when he switched to 120v....


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Holy smokes! I just re-read the thread about the guy who ran the same 2hp Baldor motor at 168v!!!

http://www.dcspeed.biz/Images/TestCart/168V.mpg


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

So I finished de-ICE-ing the Corolla, which consisted of emptying the trunk







. But that wasn't quite as easy as it sounds. I didn't have a trunk key. So I had to pull out the backseat, then remove some plastic barrier sheet, then move around the engine parts in the trunk to be able to take out the clip holding in the trunk lock. Once that was done, I took all the parts out of the trunk. I then discovered that there is a water leak in the trunk, and the spare tire well was completely full of water. It must have been there for a while because everything in there was really slimy. That included: a spare tire (it started floating when I pulled off the parts on it!







), a jack, a tire iron, some kind of tool for the jack that looked like a wrench, and a set of snow chains. I took out a rubber grommet to drain the water. It was a perfect, warm, sunny Halloween to do it!


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Have you found a suitable motor yet?


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> Have you found a suitable motor yet?


No, but this time 'round I'm going for a forklift motor. Something a little beefier than 2 HP and 53 amps max rating. I like the looks of this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360202697026&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Most would consider this one too small as well, but I think it will suit my needs just about right.


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## EVDUDE (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi I am new in EV world, just a simple question, when you say "5 mile range", do you mean, all you can drive 5 mile with a full charge?

Thanks


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

EVDUDE said:


> Hi I am new in EV world, just a simple question, when you say "5 mile range", do you mean, all you can drive 5 mile with a full charge?
> 
> Thanks


Welcome to the EV world EVDUDE!

Yes, I mean 5 miles on a full charge- that is a minimum requirement. Does that mean that at 5 miles my car will stop dead in its tracks? No, probably not. 
As a point of reference, I required my current car to go 2 miles. That gets me to work and back. I have gone 6 miles in it before, and I had a pretty good charge left on it. I'm not sure what its range is, but if I had to make a wild guess I'd say 10-15 miles- but that's pure speculation. In any case, it has completely replaced my daily driver (Ok, except in torrential rain). Nothing in town is further than 5 miles, and the next nearest town is about 12 miles at 65 mph- WAY beyond the capability of my car. That said, I anticipate EV2 will be able to go about 30 miles at 65 mph- but all I am shooting for is 40mph and 5 miles. If I had 10 grand to throw at it and got that kind of performance, I'd be dissapointed. If I get that on $500, I'd be satisfied. For most people, that kind of distance and speed is unacceptable or doesn't suit their needs......


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## EVDUDE (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks for reply, in my town, (Los Angele) unfortunately closest work place is about 20 miles one way (if you are lucky), I am getting ready to convert something for daily drive, I can charge after 20miles before i drive back home, I am looking for small size car such as Honda, Nissan, Toyota with automatic transmission, about $2500 just for a conversion plus the car,


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I don't have as much done with my car as I had hoped by now. I have removed the exhaust, radiator, and condensor. I have most of the stuff I need, except for one vital part: angle iron. I am just not comfortable enough with the old crib material I used on my last EV to use on this one. I'm tempted to take the frame out from under my bed and just lay the mattress and box spring on the ground!! I'd have all the angle iron I need to make my battery rack. I'd like to at least go on my first test drive before Spring Break is over!


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

It's good to hear from you again. It's been a while. Before you go and cannibalize your bed, check out your local Goodwill or Salvation Army thrift store. In my experience, they seem to have an endless supply of bed frames at reasonable prices.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

I removed the transmission from the car and started drilling holes in the adapter plate. Today I purchased some heavy duty angle iron to make the battery rack: $15.55 for 20 feet.


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

vpoppv,

Do you have any metal recyclers in your neck of the woods? One of recyclers around here carries both used and new angle iron at reasonable prices. I purchased new 1 1/2" X 1/8" angle for $.72 a foot and their price on used is about $.35 a foot. I'm glad to see you back at it again.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, I went to a few recyclers when I was searching for the plate to make the adapter on the Geo, and they were a bit "unfriendly" to say the least. They are also out of town. The welding supply place on the other hand, seems to have excellent prices and the guys there are extremely friendly and helpful. I'm the cheapest guy I know, but sometimes it's worth a little extra for superior service. Besides, I have most of my components and I am well under my $500 budget. To be honest, I'd be much happier to see YOUR project on the road than mine; there's enough electric junk in the world already....


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I have a local metal supply warehouse that has a "bin" for leftovers. It's usually full of short bits of angle and plate, etc... very cheap!


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