# [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Not to knock another EV drive across America...
But what exactly is "record Setting" or "Historical" about this?

People have been succesfully driving EVs across the US for decades. I
believe we have one or two people on this list who have done, or been
involved with, cross country EV trips.

> Just wanted to give a heads up to the list members
> about an exciting Cross Country EVent.
>
> LionEV would like to have EV groups along the pathway
> be a part of the historical event.
>
> Read about it at:
>
> www.lionev.com/News_releases.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Looks to me like all out troubles with batteries and range are over. Has 
anyone looked at this site? check out their faq page......
Our high end test mileage is 456 miles, the lowest test mileage achieved was 
72 miles. That test was done while towing a 22 foot boat on a trailer. We 
probably would not have done as well if we had not put the boat on a 
trailer, but since we didn't catch any fish the day was pretty much a waste 
of time.

has anyone heard of this company?

$29,000 for a new ford ranger, converted to a dc motor drive with 200 mile 
range, am i reading this wrong?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity


> Not to knock another EV drive across America...
> But what exactly is "record Setting" or "Historical" about this?
>
> People have been succesfully driving EVs across the US for decades. I
> believe we have one or two people on this list who have done, or been
> involved with, cross country EV trips.
>
>> Just wanted to give a heads up to the list members
>> about an exciting Cross Country EVent.
>>
>> LionEV would like to have EV groups along the pathway
>> be a part of the historical event.
>>
>> Read about it at:
>>
>> www.lionev.com/News_releases.html
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
> -- 
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

since you call it exciting are you in any way affiliated with lionev, 
Barkley?



> M. Barkley wrote:
> > Just wanted to give a heads up to the list members
> > about an exciting Cross Country EVent.
> > LionEV would like to have EV groups along the pathway
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Creel" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity


> Looks to me like all out troubles with batteries and range are over. Has
> anyone looked at this site? check out their faq page......

Hi EVerybody;

I've been into this EV thing for about 40 years and I have heard THIS 
Time after time. Miricle battery , charge in 15 minutes from a 120 volt 
outlet, 2-300 mile range. Read about it in Pop. Sci. magazine , it must be 
true<g>! I hope these Lion EV guyz are on to something?I don't wanna diss 
them, like the Misouri Tags say" Show Me State"

EV Transcon? Guilty, was in the Great Clean Air Car Race, of 1971. It 
was a hoot, 24/7 charge/drive/charge/ drive. Night and day faded into a 
greyness of about a weak and a half, Boston , LA.We managed to go from 40 to 
90 miles on a charge. Across the desert we slipstreamed trux, to go 90 miles 
per charge<g>Pick out a slow truck and fall in behind! Wish the charge 
stations were still in place. Sigh.

As the List has grown, to about 1400-1500 folks, perhaps we COULD setup 
an EV tour across the country? It was talked about doing Rt-66 The Mother 
Road, when I was out to Joliet at the races last spring.66 is a off the 
beaten trak, since RT -40? was built. I drove along bits of it for the 
"feel" Of History. Narrow 2 laner, passing an occasional car or truck. You 
could cruise along at YOUR best speed.Enough quirky sites to stop an' 
charge, while stuffing your face or doing museums, tourist traps<g>!I think 
it would be a fun few weeks? IF ya had the time, or shipped yur car home?66 
is fairly flat, too, you could darn near do 100 miles per charge with a 
decent conversion.This could be an EAA thing? A transcon, ya join in where 
you would like to.

Just a thought? Wish Amtrak could do Auto Trains ALL over the country. 
Only DC -Fla, for now.

Seeya

Bob 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity

> Not to knock another EV drive across America...
> But what exactly is "record Setting" or "Historical" about this?
>
> People have been succesfully driving EVs across the US for decades. I
> believe we have one or two people on this list who have done, or been
> involved with, cross country EV trips.

Peter,

I think in this case it's the longer legs involved. Quicker charging with
normal highway speeds. Before you needed an EV map. Now with lithium,
better chargers & less stops we are in an era of seamless ev driving. Could
you imagine a cross country trip with a VoltsRabbit with lets say EVen a 60
mile range. If you are lucky 30 mile legs at 45 to 60mph depending on
terrain. Lawrence Rhodes.....

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Lawrence ... Don't knock a VoltsRabbit. <smile>

After completing my '86 VW Cabriolet this summer, with it's sixteen 6-volt
USB 125's, I was feeling pretty cocky and thought I'd "prove" it's worth by
taking a "cross-county" trip from my home in Pullman, WA to Spokane, WA,
where I have family, a distance of about 80 miles. I'd show them that this
little convertible was no laughing matter!

Strategically located, about half way, is a nice State Rest Stop. I figured
I could talk the DOT into letting me plug-in and charge - for free, of
course. Driving the 40-miles between recharging stops would not be a
problem, even at 50-55 MPH ... I'd already proven more than that.

Next was the timing: I could get on the road about 6AM, drive an hour to the
Rest Stop, then ... Sit for five hours while my mighty PFC-20 pumped up the
battery pack. After charging, then around Noon, I would drive the next
40-miles and arrive in Spokane with a Hero's Welcome around 1-2PM.

When I explained my plan to my son, in Spokane, he asked the cutting
question - "WHY?" "Well, because I can," was my answer. Again, "Why?" Hmmm
...you are right! It really didn't seem to make much sense to sit in a rest
stop for TEN HOURS, just to drive to Spokane and back.

Trip CANCELLED, until further notice.

NOTE: I'll reschedule the trip next summer, with enough interest. Any driver
that would like to drive a leg and sit at the rest stop for the five hour
recharge period, can do so for the bargain registration fee of only $1,000.
(CASH only - No checks or credit cards.) Drivers will be able to participate
in the Gala Arrival at the Spokane McDonalds on 3rd Avenue. Food provided.

Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
http://www,96-volt.com

Ps: Please don't take this seriously!




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote about
a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to charge than
actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke down and got a truck
to tow it. From then on he only detached the EV to putter around each town
a few miles like an NEV to show it off. And he had a worthless solar panel
weighing it down too! That book really made me understand the technical
limitations.

It seems to me that the only way road trips in an EV make sense is if you
can store a whole day's worth of driving range in it, or you can charge it
fast enough to schedule charge events around daytime breaks (meals, brief
sightseeing).


-----Original Message-----
When I explained my plan to my son, in Spokane, he asked the cutting
question - "WHY?" "Well, because I can," was my answer. Again, "Why?" Hmmm
...you are right! It really didn't seem to make much sense to sit in a rest
stop for TEN HOURS, just to drive to Spokane and back.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That is exactly why recharging from a standard (Nema 5-15)
120V 15 Amp outlet is not going to work for long distance 
driving (unless planning an overnight stay), in other words:
if you want a fast recharge, then make sure your car has the
charger (preferably 240V 50 Amp) and you make an appointment
with someone in a home or RV that can provide you with the 
service that maxes out that charger, so you can get back to
at least 80% charge in less than an hour - usually barely 
enough time to do a show-and-tell and a cup of coffee.
Most houses have a 240V connection for dryer or stove or
some appliance like that.

Now many times such an outlet is not near the driveway, so
what I did was to go to a local electic shop, buy the
cable and plugs to make a 20 ft extension cord for 240V 50A
with the Nema 10-50 plugs that my stove uses, so I can
provide that service in my driveway temporarily.
It has been used only once until now, but that time the 50A
was maxed out (on my request) and it is easy to see that for
an efficient vehicle that gets 1 mile for 250 Wh, the speed
of charging at 240V 50A = 12kW will add almost 50 miles of
range in one hour of charging.

Note that the typical 200 Amp service that most US houses
have will give that same vehicle a range of almost 50 miles
in 15 minutes of charging, if the charger can take it.
This is not a practical situation: you can't easily tap into
a service of a house today, but it goes to show that nothing
magical needs to happen to our grid to allow fast charging
vehicles.
That is why I am still excited about EEstor's technology and
more recently the discoveries with nano technology.

And my EV continues to slow-charge overnight, displacing
gallon upon gallon of not-consumed oil every time I decide
to take the EV instead of the gas burner....

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity

This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote about a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to charge than actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke down and got a truck to tow it. From then on he only detached the EV to putter around each town a few miles like an NEV to show it off. And he had a worthless solar panel weighing it down too! That book really made me understand the technical limitations.

It seems to me that the only way road trips in an EV make sense is if you can store a whole day's worth of driving range in it, or you can charge it fast enough to schedule charge events around daytime breaks (meals, brief sightseeing).


-----Original Message-----
When I explained my plan to my son, in Spokane, he asked the cutting question - "WHY?" "Well, because I can," was my answer. Again, "Why?" Hmmm ...you are right! It really didn't seem to make much sense to sit in a rest stop for TEN HOURS, just to drive to Spokane and back.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The experience in that book sounds to me like someone
who works at a construction site, then goes out and buys
a cordless drill with a single battery pack that he can use
for 15 min of continuous drilling, but then needs to wait
2 hours for it to recharge its battery before he can
continue with his drilling work....
He has the wrong tool for the job!
If his job required him to drill less than 15 min each day,
then it would be a great thing or if he did not need it
for about 2 hours between periods of drilling....
Same with today's EV - if you don't drive more than about
40 miles each day or if you have the chance to recharge
(like morning commute - charge at work - evening commute)
then it will be no issue. But it needs to fit in your
schedule.
Otherwise you are like a man who goes out and buys fencing
material for his 3-acre property, then steps out to get his
truck and realizes that he got there with his Geo Metro
instead - it is not going to fit.
Now driving an EV every day and occasionally renting a truck for
hauling or a sedan for long range trips is a very good use of 
resources (or having friends which will lend you their car).
Well, just my Euro 0.013

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity

This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote about a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to charge than actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke down and got a truck to tow it. From then on he only detached the EV to putter around each town a few miles like an NEV to show it off. And he had a worthless solar panel weighing it down too! That book really made me understand the technical limitations.

It seems to me that the only way road trips in an EV make sense is if you can store a whole day's worth of driving range in it, or you can charge it fast enough to schedule charge events around daytime breaks (meals, brief sightseeing).


-----Original Message-----
When I explained my plan to my son, in Spokane, he asked the cutting question - "WHY?" "Well, because I can," was my answer. Again, "Why?" Hmmm ...you are right! It really didn't seem to make much sense to sit in a rest stop for TEN HOURS, just to drive to Spokane and back.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If a cross country race is done, then its has to be done with the right 
equipment, batteries, chargers, chase vehicles with complete set of back up 
EV equipment, which will be motors, controllers, batteries, chargers, and 
even a generator that can charge the EV.

When you set up this course, which I have done for only a 100 mile run 
through the mountains of Montana. I pre arrange to have a high power 
charging outlets set up at three locations. I use gasoline stations which 
have 50 amp outs and I built adapters where I can clamp right on to a 200 
amp fuse switch box.

My EV which is call Transformer I had a large 200 amp AC/DC plug on the back 
which could plug either a 50 to 100 amp AC or 200 DC amp charger back at EFP 
in Detroit. My on board charger would max out at 100 amp which by passes 
the on board transformer and regulator.

All you have to do is to get a Hotel chain to set up 50 amp 250 volt 
receptacles place along the route. This has been done already according to 
Bob Rice and talking to EFP back in the 70's.

I was running 180 volt pack of 90 each 300 AH cells at the time. This car 
just got done running a course back in the Detroit for 1056 miles in 24 
hours, to show people that a EV can go over 1000 miles in 24 hours. It 
average about 46 mph. It stop for a high power quick charge to only from 10 
to 80% SOC which took from 20 to 40 minutes.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity


> This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote 
> about
> a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to charge than
> actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke down and got a truck
> to tow it. From then on he only detached the EV to putter around each 
> town
> a few miles like an NEV to show it off. And he had a worthless solar 
> panel
> weighing it down too! That book really made me understand the technical
> limitations.
>
> It seems to me that the only way road trips in an EV make sense is if you
> can store a whole day's worth of driving range in it, or you can charge it
> fast enough to schedule charge events around daytime breaks (meals, brief
> sightseeing).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> When I explained my plan to my son, in Spokane, he asked the cutting
> question - "WHY?" "Well, because I can," was my answer. Again, "Why?" Hmmm
> ...you are right! It really didn't seem to make much sense to sit in a 
> rest
> stop for TEN HOURS, just to drive to Spokane and back.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Fellow EV'ers,

Roland and others make some good points about the realities and limitations of setting up a multiple vehicle, long distance EV race (and that it's been done before).

Any thoughts about changing to a Relay Race approach instead? EV volunteers could sign up to drive 40 to 100 mile sections along the route? Maybe the EAA chapters would be a good source to coordinate their sections? If it's 3,000 miles coast to coast and average 50 mile segments, that adds up to 60 EVs. The route could even more circuitous, covering more states, more EV involvement. 

Just thought I'd offer an "outside the box" thought.

Dave
www.evalbum.com/1355 

PS: Happy New Year!
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think that is what Nikki C.S. are planning in the UK. 
So, it would be an interesting thing for a 'race across USA'

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave Oliveria
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 4:00 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity

Hello Fellow EV'ers,

Roland and others make some good points about the realities and limitations of setting up a multiple vehicle, long distance EV race (and that it's been done before).

Any thoughts about changing to a Relay Race approach instead? EV volunteers could sign up to drive 40 to 100 mile sections along the route? Maybe the EAA chapters would be a good source to coordinate their sections? If it's 3,000 miles coast to coast and average 50 mile segments, that adds up to 60 EVs. The route could even more circuitous, covering more states, more EV involvement. 

Just thought I'd offer an "outside the box" thought.

Dave
www.evalbum.com/1355 

PS: Happy New Year!
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes,

We wanted to do a Land's end to John O Groats run in the UK - but it 
looks as if our first year is going to have to be a bit shorter, 
unless I can get the support etc to help rebuild a car I can use on a 
longer trip!

Nikki.




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > I think that is what Nikki C.S. are planning in the UK.
> > So, it would be an interesting thing for a 'race across USA'
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Daisley wrote:
> > After completing my '86 VW Cabriolet this summer, with it's sixteen
> > 6-volt USB 125's, I was feeling pretty cocky and thought I'd "prove"
> > it's worth by taking a "cross-county" trip from my home in Pullman,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote
> > about a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to
> > charge than actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

camp grounds have 120VAC 30AMP power outlets.....

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity




> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote
> >> about a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to
> >> charge than actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Lee and all,

I got a chance to drive the Vectrix for a couple of days. Very nice ev &
quick charging time to 80% in two hours. With what I would think would be a
40mile range. Fully charged it got me about 52miles. I think this is the
kind of efficiency you are talking about for any kind of daily useable long
distance range. With this vehicle I could make it to Sacramento from San
Francisco in 4 hours. Now with a pack double that size I could make it in
one charge. However then it would take 4 hours to charge to the same state.
Advancement of smaller chargers that can do more seems to be the logical
step. Not nessarily bigger packs. Though that would be nice. However any
more amps than a Vectrix charger can put out and you will need two outlets
on different circuits or a 240v charger. Lawrence Rhodes.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Rather than thinking in terms of driving, then recharging at intervals along
the way, consider designing the EV for quick change packs.
Method 1:
With 3 battery packs and 3 support teams, you could have the support team
station pre-charged packs along the way as you cross the country.
It would be feasible in this way to drive 600 miles per day with 3 batt
packs with a 200mile range per pack. Each pack could be recharged for up to
11 hours before needing to be shuttled 600miles to the next station by one
of the 3 support teams with gas cars. Assuming 30kwh of energy, charger
requirements would be a mere 3kw, well within a 30amp, 125v limitation. In
5 days you could cross the country.

Method 2:
With 2 quick change battery packs and one support vehicle, when the battery
is swapped, the spent battery gets loaded in the support vehicle and begins
getting recharged by an onboard genset/charger. The 2 vehicles travel
across the country together and can drive at whatever pace the recharging
setup supports. Cross the country as fast as you'd like.

-MT



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How many gas cars does it take to change a light bulb? Seriously...I am a strong proponent of the concept of battery swapping, and if you could use an existing infrastructure to do this....I would be all for it. 

IMHO I don't feel that using three gas vehicles to push an electric car cross-country proves them to be viable alternatives to gas cars...

This excersize will be a good project to demonstrate the reliability of the vehicle, a positive marketing tool certainly....

I think it would be detrimental to the cause if you use the gas vehicles to accomplish it!
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Is it my newness to EV's or does this make little sense?
How would having multiple support vehicles that are absolutely necessary 
demonstrate anything positive about EV's?
How would such a story read?
Using 6 vehicles that get 25 MPG for support an EV crossed the country 
using only 720 gallons of fuel!
Am I missing the publicity value of this? Why would the time lapsed even 
be considered relevant in such a story?

John Thornton





> Myles Twete wrote:
> > Rather than thinking in terms of driving, then recharging at intervals along
> > the way, consider designing the EV for quick change packs.
> > Method 1:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Josh Creel wrote:
> > camp grounds have 120VAC 30AMP power outlets.....
> 
> Yes, that would work great if you could plan your route accordingly. Or
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Myles Twete wrote:
> > Rather than thinking in terms of driving, then recharging at intervals along
> > the way, consider designing the EV for quick change packs.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Another option would be to prearrange charging with campgrounds along the route. Newer, larger RVs use 50 amps at 240 volts, and campgrounds are upgrading their sites to offer these hookups. They use a standard 14-50 receptacle (same as for an electric stove).

Dave



> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:00:24 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity
> 
> Hello Fellow EV'ers,
> 
> Roland and others make some good points about the realities and limitations of setting up a multiple vehicle, long distance EV race (and that it's been done before).
> 
> Any thoughts about changing to a Relay Race approach instead? EV volunteers could sign up to drive 40 to 100 mile sections along the route? Maybe the EAA chapters would be a good source to coordinate their sections? If it's 3,000 miles coast to coast and average 50 mile segments, that adds up to 60 EVs. The route could even more circuitous, covering more states, more EV involvement. 
> 
> Just thought I'd offer an "outside the box" thought.
> 
> Dave
> www.evalbum.com/1355 
> 
> PS: Happy New Year!
> _______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was discussing the idea of pack swapping with a non-EV friend, and he 
had a perspective on it that we EVers don't, which would require a 
public mindset change if a lot of people think as he does. He said, 
"Let's say I buy a new car. I don't want to have to exchange my nice, 
new battery pack that I just paid for with an old used one." He balked 
even more at the idea that the new car might already have an old pack in 
it, saying that if he's shelling out good money for a new car, he 
doesn't want old batteries in it from the start.

Bill Dennis



> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Myles Twete wrote:
> >
> >> Rather than thinking in terms of driving, then recharging at intervals along
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bill Dennis wrote:
> > I was discussing the idea of pack swapping with a non-EV friend, and he
> > had a perspective on it that we EVers don't, which would require a
> > public mindset change if a lot of people think as he does. He said,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You're right---it was a dumb idea unless you are developing a production EV
which is designed to have swappable packs. Then the point would be to
demonstrate that if only there were enough service stations and packs were
standardized then the recharging time argument goes out the window.
Swapping packs is not a novel idea. From 1917-1922, Milburn made its EVs
with swappable packs----rollers on the battery boxes allowed quick
replacement. Special rollaway carts at service stations allowed quick
roll-on and roll-off of the packs at each end of the car:
http://www.milburn.us/docs/27_instr-08.jpg
But alas, today, we're further from being able to standardize in this way
than we were 90yrs ago.
Consequently, to achieve quick recharge, we're putting a lot of demands on
battery design, charger performance and power capability of charging
infrastructure.
-MT

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of John Thornton
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity

Is it my newness to EV's or does this make little sense?
How would having multiple support vehicles that are absolutely necessary 
demonstrate anything positive about EV's?
How would such a story read?
Using 6 vehicles that get 25 MPG for support an EV crossed the country 
using only 720 gallons of fuel!
Am I missing the publicity value of this? Why would the time lapsed even 
be considered relevant in such a story?

John Thornton





> Myles Twete wrote:
> > Rather than thinking in terms of driving, then recharging at intervals
> along
> > the way, consider designing the EV for quick change packs.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > Bill Dennis wrote:
> >
> >> I was discussing the idea of pack swapping with a non-EV friend, and he
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bill Dennis wrote:
> > I was discussing the idea of pack swapping with a non-EV friend..
> > He said, "Let's say I buy a new car. I don't want to have to
> > exchange my nice, new battery pack that I just paid for with an
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I wrote about
> > a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to charge than
> > actually getting anywhere to the point where he broke down and got a truck
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Lee,
I don't think I could sell this "it's just like renting" idea to my 
friend. I saw his reaction when I brought up the pack swapping idea to 
him. If this was going to be his brand new car, then he wanted 
everything in it brand new, damn it. If his reaction is typical, I'm 
just thinking that the pack swapping idea might not be a good one for 
promoting EVs--or at least not one of the better ones

Bill Dennis
. 


> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Bill Dennis wrote:
> >
> >> I was discussing the idea of pack swapping with a non-EV friend..
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I wouldn't worry about it. It will never happen (mostly because of what
you are talking about).

Besides, we should have packs with decent range before EVs become popular
again anyway.
Eventuall long distance travel will return to trains (Pete's Prediction
for the Future), probably electric trains. It's the most efficient way.

> I was discussing the idea of pack swapping with a non-EV friend, and he
> had a perspective on it that we EVers don't, which would require a
> public mindset change if a lot of people think as he does. He said,
> "Let's say I buy a new car. I don't want to have to exchange my nice,
> new battery pack that I just paid for with an old used one." He balked
> even more at the idea that the new car might already have an old pack in
> it, saying that if he's shelling out good money for a new car, he
> doesn't want old batteries in it from the start.
>
> Bill Dennis
>


> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Myles Twete wrote:
> >>
> >>> Rather than thinking in terms of driving, then recharging at intervals
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Good point.
Wonder how many locations those companies have.
If they are public u could get some numbers on customer base needed for 
such a swap operation from annual report.

Propane customers would be many more but much less frequenct than 
initial ev battery swap customers.


> Already being done. Standard Propane tanks. You buy a new one, and
> swap it at a store for a filled one. You may get an older ugly one.
> BUT you will be able to swap it when it needs refilling, so who cares?
> Same with welder gas tanks. Buy a new one, and swap it away.
> The advantage is that you never have to worry about the tank getting
> old, needing to be recertified, etc.. that's all handled by the swap
> company.
>
> _______________________________________________
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www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming 
and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>>

Hi all,



> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> This reminds me of the book "Life With an Electric Car" which I
> >>> wrote
> >>> about a while back. The guy spent more time waiting for his car to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Nikki Bloomfield wrote:
> > I'm glad in the UK that we have 240VAC. I have two 16A 240V sockets on
> > the side of my house:
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Yes; that helps a lot! Twice the power allows a much more powerful
> > vehicle.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The Singletons are trying to set up on endurance EVent on the Salt Flats this summer -- I'll post details as I find out about them. Always being within 10 miles of your support vehicle is logistically much easier than a cross-country race. Plus, no hills, and no cross traffic or stops, should lead to some very impressive range numbers.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Oliveria <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:00:24 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity

... Roland and others make some good points about the realities and
limitations of setting up a multiple vehicle, long distance EV race (and that
it's been done before).

Any thoughts about changing to a Relay Race approach instead? EV
volunteers could sign up to drive 40 to 100 mile sections along the route?
Maybe the EAA chapters would be a good source to coordinate their
sections? If it's 3,000 miles coast to coast and average 50 mile segments,
that adds up to 60 EVs. The route could even more circuitous, covering
more states, more EV involvement. 

...



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Dymaxion" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity


> The Singletons are trying to set up on endurance EVent on the Salt Flats 
> this summer -- I'll post details as I find out about them. Always being 
> within 10 miles of your support vehicle is logistically much easier than a 
> cross-country race. Plus, no hills, and no cross traffic or stops, should 
> lead to some very impressive range numbers.


That will work. If its done, they will have to go over 1056 miles in 24 
hours to beat the record done in my EV back in the 70's at EFP Electric 
Fuel Propulsion Company with a 8000 lb EV with about 3400 lbs of 300 AH 
battery cells. A 37.5 kw 3 phase generator or a 200 amp 3 phase 250 VAC 
Delta charger was use to charge these batteries.

Roland
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Oliveria <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:00:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity
>
> ... Roland and others make some good points about the realities and
> limitations of setting up a multiple vehicle, long distance EV race (and 
> that
> it's been done before).
>
> Any thoughts about changing to a Relay Race approach instead? EV
> volunteers could sign up to drive 40 to 100 mile sections along the 
> route?
> Maybe the EAA chapters would be a good source to coordinate their
> sections? If it's 3,000 miles coast to coast and average 50 mile 
> segments,
> that adds up to 60 EVs. The route could even more circuitous, covering
> more states, more EV involvement.
>
> ...
>
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>you could have the support team
>station pre-charged packs along the way as you cross the country.

There's a scheme to start a company to do just that called Project Better
Place. (NOTE- I'm not endorsing this company or affiliated in any way). At
this point it's purpose seems to be mainly to attract investor's. As my Dad
used to say " Some lures are designed to catch fish, others are designed to
catch fishermen."

See a video simulating their vision of how this would work here:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/30/video-of-project-better-places-battery-exchange-system/


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Cross-Country-EV-trip--with%2C--LionEV-opportunity-tp14551470s25542p14583660.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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