# Kei Truck from gasoline to EV



## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

1. No

That said, there are a couple of fairly recent minitruck threads on this forum.

2. These days we charge our cars at public stations on trips - assuming you know how to build a car reliable enough to take more than towtruck range from homebase. A genset onboard is asinine for most uses.

Why do you need so much range when you plug in an EV every night?

3. Probably around 30k loonies to get the range fantasy you are after

The truck gets really good gas mileage. Why are you doing this vs buying a used Nissan Leaf?


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## Mikey Geez (9 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> 1. No
> 
> That said, there are a couple of fairly recent minitruck threads on this forum.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick reply Remy.

I have been looking at the availability of charging stations between my house and our family cottage, and know there are no plans to introduce anything that. It is only 230 kms away and I have managed to do the trek a few times in under 8 hours by bicycle.

There is something distinctly wrong when a vehicle with that much money and tech in it can’t do the distance I can myself. I have been upwards of 500 kms in less than 24h on a bicycle as well, so if I want a support vehicle for the Bonneville 808 or RAAM it has to keep up with me.

The Leaf is also kinda useless in terms of what it can be used for beyond transporting 4 people and a toiletries bag to and from the office.

The canoe, two bikes and camping gear for a weekend trip after a week of odd jobs like drywalling, some window installs, landscaping and a tub surround that would be pretty common place in my vehicle are impossible with the Leaf, Bolt or virtually any other subcompact sedan.

Another member posted questions regarding a conversion and you basically said buy a Leaf. If we wanted to buy a Leaf we would probably be somewhere other than diyelectriccar.

I do not know what your car market is like in the US, but here it is almost impossible to buy a used car and the wait time for any new EV car is a minimum of 12-18 months and many people are not getting the cars that they have specs for. The cars they are getting have to be adjusted and altered or the specs redefined and an amended sale made at delivery.

The other member that you shot down and said buy a used or wrecked Leaf clearly has a history of life off grid and mentioned several extremely valid points regarding availability of OEM components to maintain an EV beyond 10 years. 

Presently I have family members with hybrid/EV that are mothballed (perhaps indefinitely) because of a lack of availability of the parts 

Yes, an onboard genset is impractical for most situations, but spartan and modular does not equate to unreliable. It would only be for those times when charging stations are inaccessible. To presume that someone cannot make a vehicle that won’t have to be towed home is extremely condescending and rude.

Something brought you here in 2019 when you joined; hopefully the cynic of failed projects hasn’t killed the inventor/engineer that everyone looks for to find real solutions. Good luck with your self discovery!


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Well, good. Now if we can get those demostrated skills in stalking my bespoke responses to each OP directed towards reading some minitruck threads, many of your answers would be revealed. Yes, some have no business converting a car, even if gas was up $5/gallon....which it will be within a decade, imo.

First of all, 230km is not 380 km. You charge at the cottage.

I still say not feasible because you are conflating a commuter vehicle with a weekday work truck, but justifying use of a work truck by dragging a canoe back and forth between two locations vs just leaving the damned thing at the cottage or buying two canoes if you need one at home to get to the trading post with your beaver pelts...and buying a second economical vehicle to do the cottage commute.

Yes, I'm trying to condense the constraints to reality, because as you've framed them, you're driving an F650 for work stuff, then driving it to church 200km away where there's no diesel fuel to be had. Silly use model.


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## Joshie225 (Jul 31, 2019)

I truly believe the Kei truck to be too small to do what you're asking. A battery that will provide the range you desire will probably be near 500 kg greatly exceeding the truck's 350 kg payload capacity. If you go the next larger size truck you'll find something like the 750-1000 kg payload Toyota Lite-Ace/Town Ace which looks to be a much better candidate. These trucks have about 60 kw of power so I'll leave it to you to chose the appropriate components and determine the cost.


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## Mikey Geez (9 mo ago)

Joshie225 said:


> I truly believe the Kei truck to be too small to do what you're asking. A battery that will provide the range you desire will probably be near 500 kg greatly exceeding the truck's 350 kg payload capacity. If you go the next larger size truck you'll find something like the 750-1000 kg payload Toyota Lite-Ace/Town Ace which looks to be a much better candidate. These trucks have about 60 kw of power so I'll leave it to you to chose the appropriate components and determine the cost.


Thank you Joshie.

Indeed as I have been looking at the ranges of EVs and where our cottage is located without any charging stations along substantial lengths of the route range is a crippling factor. The cottage is also without power at least two or three weekends a year, and I considered having to backtrack out to the wolf center to recharge…, Maybe this is a vehicle that just can’t get there from here or our place is just too remote to be practical for another decade.

It is also interesting to see that there are some vehicles that have increased payloads without a significant hit to gross vehicle weight. A whole stack of threads were describing half ton pickup trucks and the 3 ton vehicles rated to carry 1/2 ton in the box and different global mindsets between “needs” in vehicles.


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## Joshie225 (Jul 31, 2019)

Yes, the range you require is a killer. Unless there's a huge change in battery technology I don't see a Kei truck making the trip without charging along the way.

I own a YM55 chassis (1812 cc gasoline, 2WD) Toyota Town Ace. This is a 1000 kg (2200 lb) payload truck. It's 4' longer than my Honda Acty, but it fits my 6' frame much better. Rather than a Kei truck's 6' bed it has an 8.75' bed _and _space behind the front seats. Overall length is 176" which is still 29.5" shorter than the 2015 Nissan Frontier I owned which had a puny 953 lb payload. You might say I'm reasonably well versed on smaller trucks and have an appreciation for the utility value of my Town Ace.


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## notepad9417 (4 mo ago)

I feel this had potential to be a good discussion had some other inventors had jumped in.

I also am looking to convert my kei truck into an ev. I travel a minimum 220km round trip for my work and we don't exactly have fancy charging stations there either. Being a travel technician for my work takes me far and wide and I need it to be able to take those treks up and down the dead zone of a mountain and to a town.

The weight accommodation can be shifted via suspension and reinforcement. I have many questions as I approach this project. 

Hope for some insight and knowledge.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What are the legal restrictions on kei vehicles for operating them on the roads where you live?

You also likely need to redo the brakes...


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## Zieg (10 mo ago)

This one looks kinda cool: Jesse' 1992 Daihatsu Hijet

I like how they built a new bed to house the batteries. Numbers aren't great though. Claimed top speed 53 mph and 37 miles of range. Not sure if it is heavier or lighter than stock and they don't really say. Maybe someone could look at tearing out the 4wd to free up a bit of weight for more batteries? Still a pretty far cry from the kind of range you guys are talking about. The truck may be light but the aerodynamics are about as bad as it gets.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

The aero's not that bad, given the frontal area is about half that of a real truck.

It's all pointless if the law states it can't exceed 25mph or if it needs certifications to be road legal.


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## CliffordK (Oct 8, 2011)

In the USA if the vehicle is over 25 years old, then it may qualify as a classic/vintage vehicle, and may be easier to get plates for.

1997 would put you mighty close to that 25 year limit.

I don't know about Canada. It may be easier. Notes seem to indicate Canada uses a 15 year rule instead of the 25 year rule.

If the vehicle isn't currently licensed, then it would be worth exploring before starting the conversion. 

Of course countries vary, states vary, DMVs vary, etc. Also the source of the vehicle may be important. Publicly owned? 

You're probably easily within the 100km range. But will struggle to get up to the 300 km range.


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## Zieg (10 mo ago)

Yeah the rule is 15 years for import to Canada, then it has to pass a pretty basic safety inspection. I see Kei trucks in Calgary all the time, even on the freeway. I guess I should have specifically said the drag coefficient is about as bad as it gets? In that it's maybe a bit deceptive when comparing to another kei suv or whatever.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

CliffordK said:


> You're probably easily within the 100km range. But will struggle to get up to the 300 km range.


With a 1 tonne payload, 300km range will not be a problem, as long as he can live with a 300kg (a guess) net payload or so.

If doubling the rated speed, need 4x the iron in the brake drums....roughly. 

@notepad9417 has to have regen for mountains and liquid battery cooling, possibly a chiller.


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## CliffordK (Oct 8, 2011)

remy_martian said:


> If doubling the rated speed, need 4x the iron in the brake drums....roughly.


According to the OP, the mini truck has a max speed of about 100 kph, or about 62 mph, which would seem to be plenty. Other notes on the internet seem to indicate that is about right. I'm not sure I'd really want to double that speed.

Apparently unregistered (off-road) mini-trucks in the USA are limited to 25 MPH, but that likely doesn't carry over to the 15/25 year "classic vehicle" registration.

If one starts adding a bunch of weight to it, then upgraded brakes or suspension may not be a bad idea. However, if the things have 12" tires, there may not be a lot of easy upgrade options without going to larger wheels and tires... as one heads down the rabbit hole!


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## Joshie225 (Jul 31, 2019)

Kei trucks don't have the chassis strength, axles/wheel bearings, brakes or wheel/tire combo to support a battery that will move the vehicle 160 km (100 mi) and leave any useful payload. My Acty pickup can carry me and about 800 lbs. It is less aerodynamic than my Fiat 500e which needs a 600 lb battery to move it 84 miles. Drag numbers will closely dictate the energy required. So far we don't have batteries that will meet this, useful Kei truck that will go 100 miles on a charge, design criteria. Choose a larger truck.

For far and wide EV use there needs to be far and wide infrastructure. I've spent years working remote communications sites and EVs are not yet ready for that job.


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## smokeycanadian (5 mo ago)

I know I may not really have much anything new to actually add but even then I thought I'll finally leave my comment to this thread nevertheless

I've seen these various kei pickups online too especially daihatsu midget imports and just like @Joshie225 recently mentioned they indeed sometimes aren't designed to carry much and it shows in that sometimes their engines are small enough you easily can just lift them out all by yourself (no chain crane stand needed)

if you really want a fast-moving 'long range' cargo vehicle then I (as likely others too) would nicely but bluntly suggest to go knock up a 40 years old ford ranger or that sort of not-ego-supersized 2-seat pickup that can be had for cheap and basically replace the factory bed with whatever big battery tray you could want to budget&build for then put a new cargo floor-or-boxside over that and enjoy your rural transporter?


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Seems you guys missed this part:



Joshie225 said:


> I own a YM55 chassis (1812 cc gasoline, 2WD) Toyota Town Ace. *This is a 1000 kg (2200 lb) payload truck*. It's 4' longer than my Honda Acty, but it fits my 6' frame much better. Rather than a Kei truck's 6' bed it has an 8.75' bed _and _space behind the front seats.


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## notepad9417 (4 mo ago)

remy_martian said:


> With a 1 tonne payload, 300km range will not be a problem, as long as he can live with a 300kg (a guess) net payload or so.
> 
> If doubling the rated speed, need 4x the iron in the brake drums....roughly.
> 
> @notepad9417 has to have regen for mountains and liquid battery cooling, possibly a chiller.


Yes, they have a good point, it gets quite cold here which I'm sure some sort of box heater could assist with battery longevity.


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