# Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Jesse Keller wrote:
> 
> > I plan on using the results to gauge interest for a group buy of Yazaiki
> > connectors and an initial run of kits sometime in the next 12 to 16 months.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Tom Parker<[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > So, I guess, I first need to know if J-1772 is going to become
> > ubiquitous in New Zealand.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

Jesse,

If I have a PFC -30 charger, how are you going to make the Yazaiki connector 
talk to the PFC charger? If I understand the protocol correctly, the J-1772 
has 2 signal sensors that look at the electronics of the battery 
pack/charger to see what level AC voltage/amps the charger will take.

Rush
Tucson AZ


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jesse Keller" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll


>
> I have set up an anonymous poll to gauge interest in the J-1772 adapter 
> kit I
> proposed last week. Instead of polluting the list with "me, too!" e-mails,
> please consider voting on the poll, either YES or NO. I'm not sure how
> reliable the don't-vote-twice function is, so please limit yourself to one
> vote per vehicle. If you want to make additional comments, please use the
> forum.
>
> Just copy and paste the following link into your browser:
>
> http://www.surveybob.com/surveybob/s/5bfa048f-3022-426b-bf71-36d0b1e8e63d.html
>
> I plan on using the results to gauge interest for a group buy of Yazaiki
> connectors and an initial run of kits sometime in the next 12 to 16 
> months.
> Please share the above link with others in the community if you wish.
>
> Have a great week. Thank you.
>
> -Jesse

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Rush wrote:
> 
> > If I have a PFC -30 charger, how are you going to make the Yazaiki connector
> > talk to the PFC charger? If I understand the protocol correctly, the J-1772
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

I had a chance to work on the first go 'round of the J1772 spec. At least
back then, the wall (a.k.a. the EVSE- Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment)
would inform the vehicle how much current was available. It was up to the
charger to regulate itself to not exceed the limit. As long as the charger
did its half of the job, the EVSE would continue to supply power. The
"communication" was pretty simple and involved a variable voltage square
wave. While I have not purchased the new J1772 standard, I cannot imagine
that it would change dramatically (like to Ethernet or something).

For this kit, I'd propose using a small microprocessor - very similar to the
Roadster Factory box's capabilities. The difference would be the output. 
Instead of simulating an EVSE for the Tesla's on-board charger, I'd have to
tie into the Manzanita Micro "remote control" connector to regulate
charger's output current based on the detected input current. This would
imply adding a AC current sensor. Basically, "ensmartening" the charger. 
One advantage would be the current limiter wouldn't have to be dependent on
a J1772 EVSE. One could imagine a circuit that would automatically limit
the current to 10A if 110VAC were detected. 

Just like Tom, I, too would personally strive for a J1772 setup. I was
eyeing the products that ClipperCreek offers. I think throwing a PCS-15 in
the trunk for opportunity and a CS-40 in the garage for home would be my
eventual goal. I want to get to a point where I can say "Jesse, Jr, I
forgot to plug in the car. Can you go out and do it for me?" and not have
to worry. I don't know about you, but I was pumping gas for my pop long
before I could drive. I don't want my EV to be any different.

I don't want to get too out of control with this, though. Most DIYers will
want a box like the the EAAEV offered. A small extension cord-like box to
let me charge at Costco (or the Nissan or Chevy dealership, for that
matter). That's what I'm shooting for. 

-Jesse



Tom Parker wrote:
> 
>


> Rush wrote:
> >
> >> If I have a PFC -30 charger, how are you going to make the Yazaiki
> >> connector
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Ben wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Jesse Keller<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> For this kit, I'd propose using a small microprocessor - very similar to
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Ben wrote:
> > Jesse,
> >
> > I can't see any way a micro w/ current sensor can measure the current
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Jesse Keller wrote:
> > You are correct. The micro would be reading the the J1772 signal to tell
> > how much current it was allowed to pull from the outlet. It wouldn't have to
> > blow the breaker to find out. That's pretty much the point of J1772 when
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> On 1 Sep 2009 at 7:52, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Very few chargers are user-adjustable for how much current they can
> > draw from the AC line. The ones that do are basically "hobby" products
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

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YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2V2Cgo=


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

Lee, 




> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > Jesse Keller wrote:
> >> You are correct. The micro would be reading the the J1772 signal to tell
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Finally, think about the long-term. In 2001, hundreds of expensive EV
> > charging stations were installed in CA to support the EVs produced by
> > the major auto companies. They ignored all the existing standards, and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > But these groups are not likely to produce solutions that are
> > good for consumers. They are working to help *themselves*,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Jesse Keller wrote:
> 
> > I had a chance to work on the first go 'round of the J1772
> > spec. At least back then, the wall (a.k.a. the EVSE- Electric
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

Roger wrote -

> I think buying a copy would be a good investment so that you have all the 
> details of the required response times and behaviours.

How does one get a copy? According to the SAE Store, it is "Not available 
for purchase at this time".

Tucson is going to be one of the roll out cities for the J1772 based charger 
and we, the people who have conversions, would love to be able to use them.

Rush
Tucson AZ 

_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

I wish people would stick to calling it J1772, not J-1772 - makes searching
easier.

Problem with making J1772 fit your charger rather than fit the charger to
J1772 is that you
don't get the eventual benefits of J1772. You might like to look at
www.variablegrid.net to
get an idea what I mean.
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/J-1772-For-DIY-Conversions-Poll-tp459601p2323507.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

You are absolutely right about "J1772" vs "J-1772". I'll keep that in mind.

As for the variablegrid.net, I'm not sure how I understand how that would
affect the communications to the vehicle or the design of my module. The
J1772 control line tells the charger how much power may be consumed. If I
understand it correctly, you'd need to make the EVSE pay attention to the
variablegrid.net-style communications, not the car. As long as my module
polls the PWM line regularly and throttles the output of the charger to stay
below the J1772 maximum available line current, all should be good. 

What's missing in J1772 are the grid-support functions, wherein the grid can
request the EV "export" power. But the chargers available to hobbyists
don't have that functionality yet anyway.




-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/J-1772-For-DIY-Conversions-Poll-tp459601p2325929.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

"Very few chargers are user-adjustable for how much current they can draw
from the AC line. The ones that do are basically "hobby" products that
are not UL listed, and operate outside the boundaries of the electrical
standards."

The Manzanita chargers have a current adjustment knob, which is one of the
reasons I purchased one. It permits adjustment of current to what the
breaker will easily handle to charge from 120VAC or 240VAC outlets. What is
your definition of a hobby charger? You might say all chargers are hobby
chargers, as they are mainly used by ev diyers now.

Myself, I am not at all interested in charging from 120VAC, as it takes too
long to gain significant charge. I have about 75 mile range in summer for
around 35% highway (60mph)/65% secondary roads, which is plenty for all
local driving. I can just charge at home for that. I would like 240VAC
charging so I can drive to somewhere 40 to 70 miles distant, charge while I
hike, bike, shop, read, lunch, or whatever, then return home. So I need to
gain about 40 to 110 Ah in a time limited by my charger, which is a PFC30,
so about 1 1/2 to 3 3/4 hours. If 50 A 240 VAC outlets were more available
I would likely upgrade to a 50A on board charger to decrease the above
charging times to about 1 to 2 1/2 hours. Manufacturer recommended charging
voltage for my CALB cells is 0.3C or 54A. It then becomes acceptable (to me)
to drive even further, stopping for lunch and charge part way to my
destination, and charging again when I arrive there.
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/J-1772-For-DIY-Conversions-Poll-tp459601p2325966.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

I don't understand, the J-1772 is the common spelling, why can't you search
for that?

As for any grid thru J-1772 to the charger, communications, that is only
"Vapor Ware" without a few Billion Federal Grant and State Grant Dollars
before the US Grid is "Smart Enough." Especially in areas where the oldest
equipment is located. It could be faster to implement over the Cellular
Telephone network, as Charging Station to EV driver is being done now, with
automated "Text messaging."

The other question I have is; all of the descriptions of the "J-1772 Pilot
Signal" refer to the
one KHz +/- 12 Volts "Square wave, and since a "Square Wave has a fixed
50/50 duty cycle, where are you reading a PWM ?? (is that a legacy of old
specifications which were not included in the latest and approved version?)
Or did I miss something ?

Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM* (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
It=92s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation=92s 217 million passeng=
er
vehicles.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


> Jesse <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > You are absolutely right about "J1772" vs "J-1772". I'll keep that in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> tomw wrote:
> 
> > Myself, I am not at all interested in charging from 120VAC, as it takes too
> > long to gain significant charge. I have about 75 mile range in summer for
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

The charging power you seek is available near almost all public recreation
areas, they are called "Campgrounds." Large 40 ft long Buses Or Class A
motor Homes use considerable amounts of power and many "Campgrounds" have
"Shore Power" facilities for them. Call ahead.
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM* (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


> tomw <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > "Very few chargers are user-adjustable for how much current they can draw
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

Point is, for opportunity charging you do not always
have a choice, so you may come in the position that
you can either charge from 120V or not at all....
I'd rather max out a NEMA 5-15 or even better 5-20
and get almost 2kW pumped into my pack, adding about
6 miles range every hour (truck with 300-350Wh/mi)
so if you are working from 9 to 6 you can put back
9h x 2kW = 18 kWh or about 55 miles, instead of
insisting on 240V and not being able to find a
240 outlet anywhere nearby.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of tomw
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll


"Very few chargers are user-adjustable for how much current they can
draw from the AC line. The ones that do are basically "hobby" products
that are not UL listed, and operate outside the boundaries of the
electrical standards."

The Manzanita chargers have a current adjustment knob, which is one of
the reasons I purchased one. It permits adjustment of current to what
the breaker will easily handle to charge from 120VAC or 240VAC outlets.
What is your definition of a hobby charger? You might say all chargers
are hobby chargers, as they are mainly used by ev diyers now.

Myself, I am not at all interested in charging from 120VAC, as it takes
too long to gain significant charge. I have about 75 mile range in
summer for around 35% highway (60mph)/65% secondary roads, which is
plenty for all local driving. I can just charge at home for that. I
would like 240VAC charging so I can drive to somewhere 40 to 70 miles
distant, charge while I hike, bike, shop, read, lunch, or whatever, then
return home. So I need to gain about 40 to 110 Ah in a time limited by
my charger, which is a PFC30, so about 1 1/2 to 3 3/4 hours. If 50 A
240 VAC outlets were more available I would likely upgrade to a 50A on
board charger to decrease the above charging times to about 1 to 2 1/2
hours. Manufacturer recommended charging voltage for my CALB cells is
0.3C or 54A. It then becomes acceptable (to me) to drive even further,
stopping for lunch and charge part way to my destination, and charging
again when I arrive there.
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DIY-Conversions-Poll-tp459601p2325966.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

Hi Willie,

You said: "That may be a case of "charge time anxiety" " 

Its not an issue for local driving, as like you, I typically don't use a
full charge in a day. Frequently I go 2 or 3 days before charging again. 
It just would enable me to travel further to a town 50 miles or so away
without taking too much time charging to return, as I pointed out in the
original post. I would not mind having lunch, dinner, or reading a book
while sipping coffee at a coffee shop, while I charge for 1 or 2 hours. Or I
might go for a bike ride or hike while I leave the car charging for longer.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Dennis Miles wrote:
> 
> > I don't understand, the J-1772 is the common spelling, why
> > can't you search for that?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

As for any grid thru J-1772 to the charger, communications, that is only
"Vapor Ware" without a few Billion Federal Grant and State Grant Dollars
before the US Grid is "Smart Enough." Especially in areas where the oldest
equipment is located. It could be faster to implement over the Cellular
Telephone network, as Charging Station to EV driver is being done now, with
automated "Text messaging."

Actually, that's not quite right - variablegrid is designed exactly for
people that
have low ampacity service and needs no big funding. Inform yourself:
http://www.variablegrid.net http://www.variablegrid.net 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

*MIKE;
"Your vehicle must have a standards-enabled charger, such as that currently
found in the* *Tesla Roadster."*
*That is what your website says ! So, I did inform myself ! And I see your
problem.
Your definition of "Big Funding" must omit having to pay thrice the price to
enable your system. What if I am using a two year old Charger? Oh sorry
sir, just buy a new car because our technology is not sophisticated enough
for an older vehicle like yours.*..[Oh yes, it needs no big Funding *from
the Electric Utility*.]
*Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
Phone (863) 944 - 9913*
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


> maxmike <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > (Actually, Dennis Miles wrote this and Mike replied below.)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*



> Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sounds good, but there aren't any details on exactly what they're
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

*MIKE;
"Your vehicle must have a standards-enabled charger, such as that currently
found in the* *Tesla Roadster."*
*That is what your website says ! So, I did inform myself ! And I see your
problem.
Your definition of "Big Funding" must omit having to pay thrice the price to
enable your system. What if I am using a two year old Charger? Oh sorry
sir, just buy a new car because our technology is not sophisticated enough
for an older vehicle like yours.*..[Oh yes, it needs no big Funding *from
the Electric Utility*.] and If I use 80% of my service capability for
charging, then I have no heat, or cool, or electric range usage, or electric
clothes drying, I'm limited to perhaps a lamp.

*Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> (Adviser) EVTI-EVA
Education Chapter
Phone (863) 944 - 9913*
==================================
(Actually, Dennis Miles wrote this earlier

> As for any grid thru J1772 to the charger, communications, that is only
> "Vapor Ware" without a few Billion Federal Grant and State Grant Dollars
> before the US Grid is "Smart Enough." Especially in areas where the oldest
> equipment is located. It could be faster to implement over the Cellular
> Telephone network, as Charging Station to EV driver is being done now, with
> automated "Text messaging."
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 7:02 PM, maxmike <[email protected]> wrote

Actually, that's not quite right - variablegrid is designed exactly for
> people that have low ampacity service and needs no big funding.



> Inform yourself:
> http://www.variablegrid.net





> maxmike <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] J-1772 For DIY Conversions Poll*

Jesse, that's a wonderful picture of a J1772 potential processing platform -
only one little point of bother:
J1772 ALLOCATES current, and that value may bear no relationship to what the
charger actually needs, so
it might be wasteful allocating 60A to a car that needs 10A and only 5A to a
car with 20%SOC.




> Jesse wrote:
> >
> >
> > You can imagine this could get all kinds of complicated when EVSE boxes
> ...


----------

