# Electro-Willys is a hit in it's first car show!



## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I haven't been doing much with the Electro-Willys except driving it around locally. But I got the idea to put it in the Holiday Car Show when I saw an ad from the local car club. So I took some time and got it all washed down, then I did some touch-up painting where there were scratches. Here are some photos I shot after I had it ready to go: 



























And here's some pix from the car show. They close main street in Buena Vista for the day and line it with all kinds of cars; race cars, show cars, trailer queens, custom motorcycles, hot rods, and electric Willys Jeeps!









I had a hard time getting a clear photo of E-W because it seems like there was always someone looking at it. I must have answered about a thousand questions about distance, weight, cost.









There were over 100 cars and bikes in the show, but this was the only electric car. Needless to say it does not have the throaty VVRROOOMM appeal of some of the muscle cars. But a lot of folks asked me a lot of questions about it. That made the day fun, and time passed quickly. 









Unfortunately two days later I was driving back to town when "PPFFFFTTT" the magic smoke leaked out of the Logisystem controller. So now I'm on the wait list to see if there is any future for that hunk of hardware.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Looks like a great day out for you and wonderful that people where showing a lot of interest.



m38mike said:


>


It looks like a radio controlled toy from that angle, especially with the aerial and the batteries in the back.







m38mike said:


>


I see there was one with a period trailer behind it. That would be a good looking range extender for you.



m38mike said:


> Unfortunately two days later I was driving back to town when "PPFFFFTTT" the magic smoke leaked out of the Logisystem controller. So now I'm on the wait list to see if there is any future for that hunk of hardware.


Not good.

Any thoughts as to what happened to it?
So are you going to change to a different controller?
I hope it gets sorted for you without too much cost.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I love that Jeep! Converted to EV just makes sense - military ground stealth - almost like "why didn't they come like that in the first place?" Congrats on the show, and hope you get the controller issue sorted out soon. Be nice to have something like a Soliton to match the quality of the rest of your project.


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks Woodsmith, I'm shopping for a different brand of controller. I like the look of the Netgain controller, and it's reported capabilities, but I haven't read any reports by customers of it's actual performance. I'm also thinking the Zilla1k-LV might be a good way to go. But right now I don't have $2k to invest in new hardware.

I've got two of those jeep trailers and I've been thinking about putting a generator in one to make this jeep into a hybrid. Do you suppose I could adjust the motor speed by changing the throttle speed on the generator? Then I could direct wire the generator to the motor and bypass the controller!! 

Thanks Todd, I'd love to have a Soliton1 in this project. Maybe when they come out with the junior I can buy in. My amp gauge tells me that I seldom ever pull more than 200 amps with this Jeep, so the 500 amp Soliton Junior might be a good fit. When the Logisystem 1000 failed on me, I was climbing a hill at 20 mph and the amp gauge was reading about 180 amps, and the volt gauge was reading about 135-140 volts. I was checking them every few seconds on the way up the hill simply to see what was going on. Then just short of the top, ppfffffttt - magic smoke. 

Any bets on whether or not I can get the Logisystem rebuilt by them? If I can get them to fix what fried, then maybe I can get some help with adding/changing what I need to so it'll be more reliable. It boggles my mind that Logisystem hasn't done that on their own. I was very impressed with the performance of the Logi-1000 before it smoked. I could spin all 4 tires in 2nd gear on gravel. Of course, having a WarP11 under the hood helped with that.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

m38mike said:


> ...I seldom ever pull more than 200 amps with this Jeep, so the 500 amp Soliton Junior might be a...


Yeah, Jr would be a great fit for Electro-Willys. Soliton1 would really be overkill, not that that's a bad thing... 





m38mike said:


> ...When the Logisystem 1000 failed on me, I was climbing a hill at 20 mph and the amp gauge was reading about 180 amps, and the volt gauge was reading about 135-140 volts. I was checking them every few seconds on the way up the hill simply to see what was going on. Then just short of the top, ppfffffttt - magic smoke...


That just plain sucks!  You were barely using the darn thing!





m38mike said:


> ...Any bets on whether or not I can get the Logisystem rebuilt by them?...


If you mean rebuilt by EVNetics, I doubt it. It doesn't sound like it's very well built and be connected in anyway to a product that will most likely fail again, isn't good for biz. Taking on in the lab and purposely destroying it for the sake of research (and fun) is a different matter alltogether, but that won't help you.

What a used controller to hold you over until Jr is in production? I know I am kind of shamelessly promoting EVNetics here. For the record, I have no formal connection to the company, I just like quality and consistency. I like Zillas too, but the foundation isn't steady enough for me, and the technology needs to be updated. Netgains sounds okay, but haven't heard anything about them??? I always come back to the Soliton...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

m38mike said:


> I've got two of those jeep trailers and I've been thinking about putting a generator in one to make this jeep into a hybrid. Do you suppose I could adjust the motor speed by changing the throttle speed on the generator? Then I could direct wire the generator to the motor and bypass the controller!!


Here's a thought, a small motor and controller on the trailer. Fix the trottle pot to the hitch and use the 'pull' on the hitch as a throttle. Fix the motor to a drive axle and you have a trailer full of batteries and generator that you can pull with one finger as it will drive itself when ever the hitch is pulled. The throttle pot will mean that the trailer only drives enough to carry its own weight and will never push the jeep over on corners.

I reckon you should get a Soliton jr when it is available. It sounds ideal for you. Offer yourself up for testing it.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

m38mike said:


> ...shopping for a different brand of controller.



old-school curtis 1231 would do the job with no fuss..... and cheaply.


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

dtbaker, you're right, the Curtis 1231C would probably do the job. I'm a little concerned that it's range is 120-144v. My system is a 144v, which means that I run as high as 180v on a full, fresh charge. Since the 1231's have been around a while, I assume they will handle that extra voltage, but I don't know. It seems like the good advice seems to be "buy a bit more capacity than you need". The Logi that burst was a 120-144v, 1000a controller. I wonder if the higher start voltage got it too hot to start with. 

Woodsmith, I like your idea on the trailer, but then I need to put a drive axle instead of a trailer axle on the trailer. I think I'll keep it simple. I'll direct connect the generator to the motor in the jeep, then I'll put a seat in the trailer and ride back there so I can control the power out of the generator. That means I'll need to hook up a remote control to the jeep for steering and braking. Man that would be a wild ride!! 

Todd, are you offering up one of your spare controllers until I can buy into one of the up and coming units? If you are, I'd take you up on that. I'd like to keep this Jeep rolling.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

m38mike said:


> dtbaker, you're right, the Curtis 1231C would probably do the job. I'm a little concerned that it's range is 120-144v. My system is a 144v, which means that I run as high as 180v on a full, fresh charge. Since the 1231's have been around a while, I assume they will handle that extra voltage


the chargers/controllers are all designed stating 'nominal' voltage limits, and understanding that MAX voltage on a fresh charge is higher.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

m38mike said:


> I'll direct connect the generator to the motor in the jeep, then I'll put a seat in the trailer and ride back there so I can control the power out of the generator.


Not sure if you are joking or being serious, but direct connection to DC motor implies a DC generator with appropriate voltage and amperage to match the motor, which means a generator of similar size as the motor and ICE of similar power to drive it all. This means doubling your drivetrain weight and lugging so much extra weight that whole idea becomes silly, might as well put ICE back under the hood.

Usually range extenders have smaller ICE and smaller gensets, which can boost the battery as you drive or park where AC mains are not available and charge the pack from the genset. Since ICE\genset is smaller, it takes longer to recoup all the energy used to drive the car.

Also, range extender with Lead Acid pack makes no sense, you are losing half your energy to Puekert. Might as well go to Lithium.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

m38mike said:


> ...Todd, are you offering up one of your spare controllers until I can buy into one of the up and coming units? If you are, I'd take you up on that. I'd like to keep this Jeep rolling.


I wish I could help! All I currently have is a 48v/300amp Alltrax. I don't think that'll do you much good. I was stating that if you wanted something higher quality like a Soliton or Zilla, maybe a cheap used subsitute would be worth the invesment to keep you moving in the meantime.

I put off buying anything else to do a lot of research, and wait for better products/prices to unfold. It's getting better. There were no Netgain controllers, no available Solitons, and Zillas were out of production when I started converting to EV.

It sounds like maybe a used Curtis is the perfect solution to your immediate needs. Then save your pennies for a Jr.


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Todd,
I'm afraid your Alltrax would be just a bit light for my needs. I do plan to look into the used market to see if someone is upgrading. A used 1231 would be a good catch for the short term.

dimitri,
I should have put the sarcasm face liberally throughout my paragraph on the trailer.  I did the math a year ago to figure out that I would need at least a 10Kw unit to keep the jeep and trailer moving at any speed if the generator was connected directly to the controller. With the onboard charger I have it wouldn't pay to run anything bigger than a 2Kw unit because the charger couldn't use the extra capacity. I don't know if the onboard charger would work correctly if I was discharging the pack (driving) at the same time as it was charging. I don't want to burn it up too trying to find out.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Mike,

Instead of a utility trailer, look for a military generator trailer. I'm pretty sure I saw a generator used by a headquarters company that was quite large and was rated at 220 and 110 volts A/C.

Jim


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## ewdysar (Jun 15, 2010)

Jimdear2 said:


> Mike,
> 
> Instead of a utility trailer, look for a military generator trailer. I'm pretty sure I saw a generator used by a headquarters company that was quite large and was rated at 220 and 110 volts A/C.
> 
> Jim


There might even be some trailer mounted generators around that are from the right era, but they might all be bigger than the Jeep...

Eric


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

A military 10Kw generator fits nicely in a jeep trailer, with room for extra fuel cans, or a small fuel drum. And it's not too bad for towing. We used them a lot in the Army Combat Engineers.

I could get a surplus 25Kw generator that's trailer mounted, but that's on a 3/4 ton trailer - much too big for a jeep to tow. The neat thing about the 25Kw is that it's a Willys Jeep engine that powers that generator. 

Controller update: I talked with Logisystem today and they said to ship it back to them and they'd fix it. So tonight I'll pull it out and box it up. Tomorrow it'll go out. We'll see what happens next. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it'll come back operational. Then I'll do some work on it to see if I can improve the cooling. Like maybe remove the resin plug on the back end and install a fan to circulate air inside the housing. Maybe cut some more grooves in the heat sink on top so there's more exposed surface to release heat. 

Can anyone think of a reason why I couldn't open it up to blow air through it to help with the cooling?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

m38mike said:


> Can anyone think of a reason why I couldn't open it up to blow air through it to help with the cooling?


Moisture


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

My controller is in the cab under the driver's seat, protected from road spray or precipitation. We generally have very low Rh here, so condensation is very rare. With a fan moving the air inside, even condensation would dry quickly, especially with any heat at all. 

How much moisture would be needed to cause a problem?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

m38mike said:


> How much moisture would be needed to cause a problem?


Don't know  But don't expect a warranty repair if you alter the unit 

On a brighter note, your shaft is holding together, right? How many miles you got on that sucker? 

Glad to here from you again.

major


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It's good that the controler will be repaired again. Will it be a repair or a replacement? That may make a difference if there is an inherent fault with your one.

The big generator trailer sounds like fun. I can imagine that, due to the extra weight, used as a range extender you might just get more range *not* hauling it around!


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## ewdysar (Jun 15, 2010)

m38mike said:


> A military 10Kw generator fits nicely in a jeep trailer, with room for extra fuel cans, or a small fuel drum. And it's not too bad for towing. We used them a lot in the Army Combat Engineers.
> 
> I could get a surplus 25Kw generator that's trailer mounted, but that's on a 3/4 ton trailer - much too big for a jeep to tow. The neat thing about the 25Kw is that it's a Willys Jeep engine that powers that generator.
> 
> ...


A 10kW generator sounds pretty good if you can get it re-wired to DC output at your target charging voltage (about 170V for a 144V pack), finding an appropriately sized charger could be tough. Then the only trick is to start the generator when you hit a chosen depth of discharge (maybe 60%) and run until the batteries reach an upper limit (maybe 85%). You don't have to adjust the generator output or speed, just hook the DC right into your battery buss. Your battery pack will buffer any loads exceeding the feed and absorb any excess energy while your load is low. It would also fill up most of your pack when you're parked. Of course, you can set the on/off limits at whatever level works best for you. 

I wouldn't open the controller. Instead, I would ask the Logisystem guys if they have a suggestion on how to cool your controller. Maybe a heat sink plate with big fins or liquid cooling. I wouldn't try to retro-fit extra cooling internally without their input.


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## m38mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Major, Thanks. I've put a few hundred miles on it since last year. Mostly short trips in cold weather just to work the battery pack. Winters around here can be tough on a guy driving a convertable. 

woodsmith, I don't know if it'll be repair or replacement. This will be the 3rd time into the shop for this controller. It's now over 2 years old. They said they need to see it before they could tell me more about time/cost/repair/replace/etc. At least this time it didn't belch out lots of fire. But then I was very quick on the master kill switch to kill the pack power so that might have kept the fire from happening.

ewdysar, I'm not sure what else I can do to cool it since it's not plumbed for water. I have it mounted on a heat sink with 2 inch fins, I have 3 fans blowing on it. It's mounted in an area with very good air circulation. I'll talk with Logisystem about doing something to help with the cooling, but I really think I need to do something to help solve that heat problem and protect that controller. I really like the performance I'm getting from it. Maybe I can replace their flat factory heat sink with an aluminum water tank and just fill it with water. Then it would work like the old farm engines used to do to control heat. They just used a big water tank and evaporated the water. Hhmmm? I could put a tap in the side of the tank and have hot coffee all the way into work!!

On the generator/trailer idea, I thought that if I could get the generator to produce 120v DC and AC then I could hook the DC side directly to the controller and just use the generator for my prime power when I needed the extra range. And while that was going on, I could plug the charger into the AC side to bring the pack back up to strength. By doing that I could use the generator out on the highway, and use the batteries in town.    Would that work with an AC-DC inverter???


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