# Best Reputable Company for Racing Motors...



## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> There is a handful of companies building EV Drag Racing motors. We have been in contact with them all, but, now its time for the public's opinion.
> 
> Strongest 11" DC Motor?
> (must handle over 300v and 1000amps)
> ...


This seems a strange request considering 



LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> We are serious, spent large amounts to get the East Coast Team Developed. We will have many private tests before any official track record is recorded. *Our 300ZX has more torque than the Zombie*, we will be testing different rear differentials to see what ratio works best for our combo. Its all for fun, we just want the title belt. The EGO trip the West Coast Racers are on has driven many "Sponsors" to us. Most of our Sponsors are located East of the Miss River.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> This seems a strange request considering


We have calculated on paper what is needed to beat Zombies record. We have many motor companies that produce 11" that will work. We are just looking for opinions. You can keep "attacking" ECEDRA at every post, we will not stoop to your level.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> We have calculated on paper what is needed to beat Zombies record. We have many motor companies that produce 11" that will work. We are just looking for opinions.





LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Our 300ZX has more torque than the Zombie,


Oh, so what you meant to say was that you think you might be able to better Zombie if you can find a motor.



> You can keep "attacking" ECEDRA at every post, we will not stoop to your level.


Works for me


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> Oh, so what you meant to say was that you think you might be able to better Zombie if you can find a motor.
> 
> 
> 
> Works for me


Watch and learn my friend. The 2011 Season will be full of new records.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> There is a handful of companies building EV Drag Racing motors. We have been in contact with them all, but, now its time for the public's opinion.
> 
> Strongest 11" DC Motor?
> (must handle over 300v and 1000amps)
> ...


I must admit that asking the public for their opinion on a forum of do-it-yourself-ers does not compliment either your expertise nor your market research abilities.

Mr Wayland went through several iterations of motor/controller/battery try-outs and accumulated knowledge through multiple failures and successes. And you introduce yourself by boasting that your 300ZX has more torque than the White Zombie............and conveniently didn't finish the sentence.........'on paper'.

At the moment you present yourself as a scam artist. And I will admit I don't know you or your company other than what you have said here in this forum.

What you have said so far and your attitude leads me to think that, more than likely, your whole organization and business is on paper. If you wish to gain the confidence and then the opinion of the folks on this forum, perhaps you should enlighten us on some of the doubts that you have raised.

I'm all for capitalism and making a buck, so why not give it another shot and explain yourself a little more fully. You see, I'd like the answers to some of those questions myself........a do-it-yourself-er.

Eric


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> Oh, so what you meant to say was that you think you might be able to better Zombie if you can find a motor.
> 
> 
> 
> Works for me


We have an EV Car Show next month, my garage will be open to the public, take the trip. You can view (in person) all our new EV Racing Toys I am building for the 2011 Season. Did I mention I build bikes also? I currently own a Chopper Guys 240 MegaWide Softail with a TP 124" engine. The bike cost me $45,000 just in parts. I am building an EV version Harley to add to the Lithiumaniacs Racing Team. The bike will not be completed until July, 2011. 

Our address:
770 Newfield Street
Middletown, CT 06457
call and visit 860-301-6813


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

esoneson said:


> I must admit that asking the public for their opinion on a forum of do-it-yourself-ers does not compliment either your expertise nor your market research abilities.
> 
> Mr Wayland went through several iterations of motor/controller/battery try-outs and accumulated knowledge through multiple failures and successes. And you introduce yourself by boasting that your 300ZX has more torque than the White Zombie............and conveniently didn't finish the sentence.........'on paper'.
> 
> ...


Wow, you guys are tough!

We already know what is available and what our choice most likely will be for motors. We just like to get opinions, what is wrong with asking an opinion? I regards to us being the "real deal", my friend I am the owner of:
www.GeoMetricMoving.com 
What I make in one month most make in one year. Our Association has done more in the past month for the East Coast than NEDRA has done in 10 years. Our address is on out website, feel free to stop by and see us in action.
www.ECEDRA.com


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I regards to us being the "real deal", my friend I am the owner of:
> www.GeoMetricMoving.com
> What I make in one month most make in one year. Our Association has done more in the past month for the East Coast than NEDRA has done in 10 years. Our address is on out website, feel free to stop by and see us in action.
> www.ECEDRA.com


O.K. So the way I read this is that you are the sanctioning head and also a team owner. That always works well.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> O.K. So the way I read this is that you are the sanctioning head and also a team owner. That always works well.


I am the sanctioning head and also one of the team owners. Does not NEDRA board members race in their own events? Your attitude is getting boring, have a wonderful night.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> I am the sanctioning head and also one of the team owners. Does not NEDRA board members race in their own events? Your attitude is getting boring, have a wonderful night.


NEDRA does have a board and some do race. True. But I think that board is elected by membership each year (or maybe two). Currently: 

*NEDRA Board Members*

President - Mike Willmon
Vice President - Roderick Wilde
Treasurer - Mike Willmon (acting)
Membership Director - Marissa Wayland
Public Relations Director/Webmaster - Chip Gribben
Technical Director - Ken Koch
Northwest Regional Director - Jim Husted
Southwest Regional Director - Brian Hall
Midwest Regional Director - Darin Gilbert
Northeast Regional Director - Chip Gribben
Southeast Regional Director - Matt Graham 

How did your appointment to sanctioning head come about?


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I get some furniture moving website when I click your link. Why are you so insistant on people "seeing you in action", can you just make a video or post pictures? This would be more effective. 

It seems you are the one on an ego trip 


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Wow, you guys are tough!
> I regards to us being the "real deal", my friend I am the owner of:
> www.GeoMetricMoving.com
> What I make in one month most make in one year. Our Association has done more in the past month for the East Coast than NEDRA has done in 10 years. Our address is on out website, feel free to stop by and see us in action.
> www.ECEDRA.com


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> There is a handful of companies building EV Drag Racing motors. We have been in contact with them all, but, now its time for the public's opinion.
> 
> Strongest 11" DC Motor?
> (must handle over 300v and 1000amps)
> ...


Its pretty clear that, at the moment, the Warp11HV is the strongest and most capable 11" motor on the market. It can handle 300+V *advanced*.

If its possible, and you have the funds, I would create a single shaft for the dual Warp11HV motors, it would shorten the entire setup and be more robust to handle all the torque and power...

wouldnt be cheap though, a single warp11HV is 3500$, so that's 7K$ without the custom work for the single shaft...dual soliton1's would be interesting...if you can't wait for the BigSol...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

etischer said:


> I get some furniture moving website when I click your link. Why are you so insistant on people "seeing you in action", can you just make a video or post pictures? This would be more effective.
> 
> It seems you are the one on an ego trip


If I am spending thousands and thousands of dollars of my own funds to sanction racing on the East Coast, how am I on an "ego trip". The reason for posting my business link was to verify that I do have the funding to complete the mission.

Have a wonderful day!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> Its pretty clear that, at the moment, the Warp11HV is the strongest and most capable 11" motor on the market. It can handle 300+V *advanced*.
> 
> If its possible, and you have the funds, I would create a single shaft for the dual Warp11HV motors, it would shorten the entire setup and be more robust to handle all the torque and power...
> 
> wouldnt be cheap though, a single warp11HV is 3500$, so that's 7K$ without the custom work for the single shaft...dual soliton1's would be interesting...if you can't wait for the BigSol...


Thank you for an honest and on topic answer! 
We are considering Netgain, Kostov and a few others than produce electric motors for industry that are looking to get into the EV arena.
In regards to the controller, we have purchased the Soliton 1 for our 3000GT. We are waiting for the "bigSol" for our 300ZX.


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## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

LOL, owning a furniture moving business makes you "the real deal" in the EV drag racing world =) 
Innovation is just as important as having cash. 

If you're trying to compete with the Zombie, you might consider a lighter chassis. 300ZX and 3000GT aren't as light as a 510. 







LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> If I am spending thousands and thousands of dollars of my own funds to sanction racing on the East Coast, how am I on an "ego trip". The reason for posting my business link was to verify that I do have the funding to complete the mission.
> 
> Have a wonderful day!


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

it has already been seen and proven what a twin 9" motors can do..by the zombies' experience and the ford pinto, we have seen some on twin 11" by crodriver, and Jack will be installing a pair in his Escalade project...since you have the funding, I suggest you go up the lather and consider twin 13"  (that's just a thought I dont really have experience)


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

efan said:


> it has already been seen and proven what a twin 9" motors can do..by the zombies' experience and the ford pinto, we have seen some on twin 11" by crodriver, and Jack will be installing a pair in his Escalade project...since you have the funding, I suggest you go up the lather and consider twin 13"  (that's just a thought I dont really have experience)


I often thought that twin 9" motors were selected for some of the racing applications because of their higher RPM capability. Obviously the 11 or 13" motors will have more low end torque... but will their rpm limit cause them to be less effective over the later stages of the 1/4 mile?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> I often thought that twin 9" motors were selected for some of the racing applications because of their higher RPM capability. Obviously the 11 or 13" motors will have more low end torque... but will their rpm limit cause them to be less effective over the later stages of the 1/4 mile?


Nope, you can gear higher (lower numerical gearing ratio) because of the higher torque. Even with the siamese 9s Wayland has had to drop to a 3.50 (I think). Lawless runs nearly 180mph with Berube's old 13 in the bike. The real keys to electric drag racing are keeping the weight down, and getting enough battery.


KillaCycle - 800-ish pounds/A123 pack/dual 7"(?) = high 7s
Current Eliminator - 1200-ish pounds/Altairno(sp?) pack/single 11" = high 7s
Rocket - 1000-ish pounds/A123 pack/single 13" = mid 7s
Zombie - 2200-2400-ish pounds/Kokam pack/dual 9" = low 10s
The type of motor configuration doesn't seem to matter as much as getting the weight down and getting some powerful cells.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Todd.  You're right about the weight and battery for sure. That's a given. I'm not sure I'm convinced though.  I understand gearing and torque... is there a trade off with rpm and changing gears though? Does Wayland use a transmission? (seriously, I never looked ..lol) I think he could have built siamese 11's or siamese 13's and put in the same light car if he wanted? hmmmm makes me wonder. I mean diesels make gobs of torque... but u don't see them eating up the track.... low rrrr's..? Maybe I shouldn't think out loud.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks Todd.  You're right about the weight and battery for sure. That's a given. I'm not sure I'm convinced though.  I understand gearing and torque... is there a trade off with rpm and changing gears though? Does Wayland use a transmission? (seriously, I never looked ..lol) I think he could have built siamese 11's or siamese 13's and put in the same light car if he wanted? hmmmm makes me wonder. I mean diesels make gobs of torque... but u don't see them eating up the track.... low rrrr's..? Maybe I shouldn't think out loud.


All of the vehicles I listed are direct-drive (no tranny). Electric motor torque is torque, but it's a different animal to deal with. It took me a while to wrap my head around the concept of full torque from 0rpm, because all my thinking had been geared (pun intended) to getting into an ICE torque curve. Where lower gears on an ICE might pull the engine down and out of the torque band, they will cause the electric motor (in a properly balanced race car) to create more. The motor has to work harder to accelerate the vehicle, due to the lower (higher numerical) gearing, drawing more current from the pack, producing more torque. On the other end of the track the gearing allows faster trap speeds. It's magical!  (The gurus will correct me if my layman's terms are off.)

Sure he could have put siamese 11s or 13s in the Zombie. The 13" (single) motor that is in the Rocket bike is from the SmokeScreen S10. With a borrowed lithium pack (from his Current Eliminator dragster) it ran 11.08, over 100mph (can't remember the mph offhand). Put the same torque monster motor in the much lighter (1/4 the weight?) dragbike and it goes 7s again, with more mph.

Electric motors make gobs of torque - instantly - and now we know they also make hp, if you have the batteries to pump enough voltage in them. Combine near instantaneous (full) torque *and* horsepower on the upper end and you have serious performance potential.

As for rpm, just gear to be at or near your motor's rpm limit at or near the finish line. It's the ideal world of having one long gear that is fully effective from starting line to finish line. Start at zero (rpm) and finish at your motor's limit. Build the rest vehicle to work with this concept.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> All of the vehicles I listed are direct-drive (no tranny). Electric motor torque is torque, but it's a different animal to deal with. It took me a while to wrap my head around the concept of full torque from 0rpm, because all my thinking had been geared (pun intended) to getting into an ICE torque curve. Where lower gears on an ICE might pull the engine down and out of the torque band, they will cause the electric motor (in a properly balanced race car) to create more. The motor has to work harder to accelerate the vehicle, due to the lower (higher numerical) gearing, drawing more current from the pack, producing more torque. On the other end of the track the gearing allows faster trap speeds. It's magical!  (The gurus will correct me if my layman's terms are off.)


 yes, it is different. I spent my share of time building high output V8's also....



toddshotrods said:


> Sure he could have put siamese 11s or 13s in the Zombie.


 So, .. why did didn't he then I wonder??



toddshotrods said:


> Electric motors make gobs of torque - instantly - and now we know they also make hp, if you have the batteries to pump enough voltage in them. Combine near instantaneous (full) torque *and* horsepower on the upper end and you have serious performance potential.


This is another question I have in the back of my mind. So, what is done differently to the racing series DC motors other than advancing timing? Obviously their runs are short duration so, motor current doesn't really get to the point of overheating I suppose. What voltage do they limit their motors to.... or do they? ... and I don't think any of them actually use the brush timing slip rings for messing with that while they race.... do they?

I have a 192 nominal pack and have my 9" motor advanced 13 degrees. I also coated the entire brush holder area with a high voltage dielectric spray... just to help from any arcing jumping around. I do limit the voltage to my motor to 160 though. I have pushed that motor over 200 hp for more than 10 seconds also... with no ill effects...  I often wondered about the contribution of brush carbon dust hanging around and "helping" flashover to occur. I have a blower on mine for cooling and like to think that it helps to clear this dust.... thoughts??

I'm trying to wrap my brain around the who electric thing too.... lol


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> So, .. why did didn't he then I wonder??


from what I understand it is a real estate issue...two 11" or two 13" will be too long for the datsun


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

efan said:


> from what I understand it is a real estate issue...two 11" or two 13" will be too long for the datsun


Really? Wow.. never would have thought that would be the reason. Two 9" motors at ..what 18" long each... (probably less)... no transmission and he didn't have room between the differential and the front bumper? Must be enough length. 
So, if diameter was the problem? hmmm. . lots of tubbing going on for slicks on most of the pro stockers. A little floor pan work shouldn't be too hard to accomodate motors if required....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> ...So, .. why did didn't he then I wonder??...


Wayland is committed to exploring the Datsun's potential as close to stock as possible. Of course, he has to make certain upgrades for reliability and safety, but he is trying not to cut the car up. He even uses two Impulse 9s, rather than Warp 9s, to fit better in his chassis, without modifying it. To fit siamese 11s or 13s would require a lot of cutting and fabrication. That would take him out of NEDRA's Pro Street class into Modified Street (I think). He wants to run P/S.

Another thing, along the same lines, is to make use of the torque of the bigger siamese motors he would need more extensive chassis work. IIRC, he has 225mm section width drag radials...






DIYguy said:


> ... So, what is done differently to the racing series DC motors other than advancing timing?...
> 
> ...I have a 192 nominal pack and have my 9" motor advanced 13 degrees. I also coated the entire brush holder area with a high voltage dielectric spray... just to help from any arcing jumping around. I do limit the voltage to my motor to 160 though. I have pushed that motor over 200 hp for more than 10 seconds also... with no ill effects...  I often wondered about the contribution of brush carbon dust hanging around and "helping" flashover to occur. I have a blower on mine for cooling and like to think that it helps to clear this dust.... thoughts??...


I wonder the same thing. It is understandably hush-hush because the motor builders need to have a reason for people to come to them. I don't believe they charge thousands of bucks just to turn the comm, turn and paint the case, fit better brushes, wrap and bake the coils, and coat everything critical with something to prevent sparking, but who knows?

I have always believed there is something else that is done inside the motors that allows them to live for a full season of abuse. WZ's new siamese 9 withstood the (Z2K-EHV)controller going full-on, when he had it wired wrong, and there was no sign of damage?! On the other hand, EVnetics has destroyed stock Warp 9s with a 1000 amp Soliton. What did Jim really do that prevented WZ's motor from cooking, and how much can it really take now?  I don't expect to get an answer for the first part of that question... 

Not sure what voltage their running through the motors at the top end of the track, as I haven't seen any graphs from the latest runs.

I'm building a blower on steroids that should be capable of keeping my motor nice and clean inside, as well as cool. It can't hurt.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Wayland is committed to exploring the Datsun's potential as close to stock as possible. Of course, he has to make certain upgrades for reliability and safety, but he is trying not to cut the car up. He even uses two Impulse 9s, rather than Warp 9s, to fit better in his chassis, without modifying it. To fit siamese 11s or 13s would require a lot of cutting and fabrication. That would take him out of NEDRA's Pro Street class into Modified Street (I think). He wants to run P/S.


OK, well that makes sense. I didn't realize that. kewl.



toddshotrods said:


> I wonder the same thing. It is understandably hush-hush because the motor builders need to have a reason for people to come to them. I don't believe they charge thousands of bucks just to turn the comm, turn and paint the case, fit better brushes, wrap and bake the coils, and coat everything critical with something to prevent sparking, but who knows?
> 
> I have always believed there is something else that is done inside the motors that allows them to live for a full season of abuse. WZ's new siamese 9 withstood the (Z2K-EHV)controller going full-on, when he had it wired wrong, and there was no sign of damage?! On the other hand, EVnetics has destroyed stock Warp 9s with a 1000 amp Soliton. What did Jim really do that prevented WZ's motor from cooking, and how much can it really take now?  I don't expect to get an answer for the first part of that question...
> 
> ...


Maybe they are using heavier gauge wire or something. I mean... there isn't much else in there! lol

('Comon MAJOR ...fess up. What-r-they-doin?? lol)


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> ...('Comon MAJOR ...fess up. What-r-they-doin?? lol)


Fat chance. Major is the go-to motor guru. My guess is whatever Jim is doing in there came out of Major's mind.

Time for you to pop in and say there's nothing special going on in there Major.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

OK so... I was just thinking.  (dangerous) perhaps either an armature out of Sepex like this one in a series 11".... or get some field coils out of a compatible motor and put them is this one. I mean ... it has a gazillion segments on the armature... ok, maybe not a gazillion... but at least twice as many or more, than my GE motor. ... and the name plate says it likes higher voltage!


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm pretty sure Major isn't going to let too much out of the bag...... but I'll bet u Mr. LithiumEVracing..guy... that you won't be buying a stock motor from Kostov, Advanced, Warp or anyone else that does what Wayland is doing....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

By the way, the answer to the topic of this thread is Jim Husted or Dennis Berube. Both have motors running 7-second ETs. Contact them and talk to them, and see which one you think you can develop the best relationship with. Buying a race engine or motor is more like establishing a relationship with a builder. You need to be able to work together to get maximum performance out of it, after you take delivery. You need to have the same philosophy and approach.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> By the way, the answer to the topic of this thread is Jim Husted or Dennis Berube. Both have motors running 7-second ETs. Contact them and talk to them, and see which one you think you can develop the best relationship with. Buying a race engine or motor is more like establishing a relationship with a builder. You need to be able to work together to get maximum performance out of it, after you take delivery. You need to have the same philosophy and approach.


I think we just said the same thing.... about 2 seconds apart... lmao


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Fat chance. Major is the go-to motor guru. My guess is whatever Jim is doing in there came out of Major's mind.
> 
> Time for you to pop in and say there's nothing special going on in there Major.


There's nothing special going on in there Major.

Jim was building race motors long before I met him  He works with the racer. After the racer breaks it, Jim fixes it a little better. After the racer breaks it, Jim fixes it a little better. After the racer breaks it, Jim fixes it a little better. And then repeat. It never really stops.

I like Jim. He is a down to earth guy. He doesn't pretend to know how the motor works; he just knows how to make the motor work. And does an excellent job.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

efan said:


> from what I understand it is a real estate issue...two 11" or two 13" will be too long for the datsun


But not too long for a 300ZX.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

etischer said:


> LOL, owning a furniture moving business makes you "the real deal" in the EV drag racing world =)
> Innovation is just as important as having cash.
> 
> If you're trying to compete with the Zombie, you might consider a lighter chassis. 300ZX and 3000GT aren't as light as a 510.


Our 300ZX will be plenty light. The main factor is we can fit two 11" motors in a 300ZX. We have decided on NetGain, we trust their reputation. The rear will be produced by Strange. Carbon fiber panels will also reduce weight.


 1989 Nissan 300ZX
​​
Original weight: 3080 lbs​

Engine & Trans weight: 497 lbs est.
Exhaust weight: 75 lbs est.
Fuel tank: 160 lbs full est.
Radiator: 25 lbs est.​ 
Total weight removed: 757 lbs est...​ 
3080 lbs
-757 lbs
2323 lbs ​ 
________________________________________​ 
Empty vehicle weight 2323 lbs​ 
WarP 11 weight 233 lbs
TransWarP 11 weight 236 lbs​ 
2323 lbs
+233 lbs
+236 lbs
2792 lbs​ 
300ZX EV weight 2792 lbs 
with motors installed.​ 
Additional calculations still needed:​ 
Lithium Ion Battery Pack weight:
Weight reduced using carbon fiber panels:
Weight reduced using aluminum 1 piece rear axle:
Weight reduced removing interior items:​


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

There was an older thread that talked about the prepping of high voltage motors...We still dont know exactly what Jim H. does to the motors but these might be part of it...

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...dc-motor-performance-tips-tricks-26862p3.html

A: Thorough cleaning from original usage/wear and tear...

1: Advance Timing 

2: Insulation (liberal nomex paper wrapping)

3: Larger/powerful cooling blower (electric)

4: Newer Harder "Heavy Duty" Brushes (specific to other parts in the motor e.g. commutator)

5: Add extra banding (Kevlar) 

6: High temp wiring

7: Better bearings

8: Trimming of unrequired metal weight (Jim H. trims some metal pieces off the motors to lighten them up...his website has specifics)


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Our 300ZX will be plenty light. The main factor is we can fit two 11" motors in a 300ZX. We have decided on NetGain, we trust their reputation. The rear will be produced by Strange. Carbon fiber panels will also reduce weight.
> 
> 
> 1989 Nissan 300ZX


...why dont you use two 13" motors since you have the funding and the available space


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Watch and learn my friend. The 2011 Season will be full of new records.


O.K. So whose records will those be? NHRA? NEDRA? Or any other sanctioning body which happens to decide to muddy the waters?

How many rule books and record books are really needed?

major


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I would like to see someone use the AWD system from a turbo diesel truck, built to with stand great amounts of torque...sacrificing efficiency for traction/launch capabilities...

Dual 11HVs on single shaft mated to built AWD turbo diesel driveline =


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

Bowser330 said:


> I would like to see someone use the AWD system from a turbo diesel truck, built to with stand great amounts of torque...sacrificing efficiency for traction/launch capabilities...
> 
> Dual 11HVs on single shaft mated to built AWD turbo diesel driveline =



I dunno it seems like it'd be easier to just have the motors seperate. Put one on the stock rear differential and get an extra differential, axles, etc and stick that in front. You could still wire them up in series or parallel or you could use 2 separate controllers.

At some point, usually to get past the mid to low 9s mark with something that is classified as a street legal setup an AWD really becomes necessary just to be able to put the power to the ground. It's a good part of the reason John Shepard was pretty constantly a leader in the street legal class with his 1st gen eclipse. The power he got out of his 4g63 motor was nothing new. The work he did to his AWD drive train too keep it in one piece at those power levels was.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Very true. One warp 11 for each axle.
1000whp would be amazing.



jeremyjs said:


> I dunno it seems like it'd be easier to just have the motors seperate. Put one on the stock rear differential and get an extra differential, axles, etc and stick that in front. You could still wire them up in series or parallel or you could use 2 separate controllers.
> 
> At some point, usually to get past the mid to low 9s mark with something that is classified as a street legal setup an AWD really becomes necessary just to be able to put the power to the ground. It's a good part of the reason John Shepard was pretty constantly a leader in the street legal class with his 1st gen eclipse. The power he got out of his 4g63 motor was nothing new. The work he did to his AWD drive train too keep it in one piece at those power levels was.


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## zeroemission (Sep 14, 2010)

if your ultimate goal is to create the world's quickest car and you have the unlimited resources to build a no holds barred ride, instead of looking for one big motor, i'd suggest 4 smaller ones in a 4wd configuration. controllers & dialing it in would be a pain, but i'd bet a nickel if someone tried it, they could beat the zombie. if you were cram everything into a feather wight fiberglass kit car, you'd get even more performance. if i had the finances to get in the game, i'd go up against the zombie in an electric sand rail. you can't get much lighter than that and they allow much bigger slicks than the zombie. wheelie bars would be necessary though. it's amazing the ETs zombie pulls off with such tiny slicks in an aerodynamic "brick". seeing the big slicked mazda doing wheelstands yet not being able to beat the Z is a testament to dude's alchemy skills. instead of raising the motor, try dropping the weight... get a smaller car and a fiberglass front end etc. which are "old school" drag racing technologies that still work. funny cars & rails are more than just "big motors".


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Wow, you guys are tough!
> 
> We already know what is available and what our choice most likely will be for motors. We just like to get opinions, what is wrong with asking an opinion? I regards to us being the "real deal", my friend I am the owner of:
> www.GeoMetricMoving.com
> ...


I wonder why you feel the need to use multiple identities on this site 



GeoMetric said:


> *Hey its me! Ron Adamowicz.*


http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=200825&postcount=64


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Sherlock Major.

And yet another imposter is nailed.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hey guys, don´t you thing that more ev-racers there are the better?
Don´t bully someone just because he is green and has more green. And likes to say what he is to about.
Turning this thread to politics is just crap. Not all forum users are from that side of Atlantic. And there are some Canadians also. Those two letter combinations are not that importantant to what WE (the ev people) want to accomplish.
Letting others know what plans you have on your build is so big advantage to us all that we should be more supportive. We all benefit when one uses money to fry parts so next guy can fry something else.
Good luck to you all. Yes, all and everybody
Harri


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Jan said:


> Sherlock Major.
> 
> And yet another imposter is nailed.


I didn't think it was a secret, I knew lithiumaniacs was Ron/Geometric. I think he just created lithiumaniacs ID to represent the new venture.

As to those advocating using two 13 inch Warps, they weight 350lbs each  700lbs of motors? No thanks.

Ron, send your Warp11's to Jim Husted and have him work his magic if you want to be competitive.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

glaurung said:


> Turning this thread to politics is just crap. Not all forum users are from that side of Atlantic. And there are some Canadians also. Those two letter combinations are not that importantant to what WE (the ev people) want to accomplish.


Who was talking about politics, or what country people are from?
Fact is Ron is coming on strong with a lot of talk which just doesn't sit well with most people, so he should expect to take some crap until he actually starts winning. I'm all for his efforts succeeding and have nothing at all against him, but to use a very tired phrase, talk is cheap. He has money and enthusiasm going for him, so he's ahead of most of us on at least one count


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Debate over different associations, NEDRA / ECEDRA is politics. That may be interesting to those who live under their influence, but not so much to other members of the forum.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

glaurung said:


> Debate over different associations, NEDRA / ECEDRA is politics. That may be interesting to those who live under their influence, but not so much to other members of the forum.


Yes glaurung, you have a point. But this thread is about racing motors. And those who use racing motors often race. And those who race like to have rules, classes and records and often organized sanctioned events in which to compete. I think it is important have to clearly defined rules, classes and records.

I realize that those of you not in the USA may have difficulty understanding the 1/4 mile drag race. But I think CroDriver is running that race in his country. EV racing is in its infancy. I for one would like to see the WEVRA established. World Electric Vehicle Racing Association. This would cover all types of EVs, 4 wheelers, 2 wheelers, boats, etc and all types of racing, drag, circuit, LSR or whatever. Why not have a universal worldwide rule book and record book? And then maybe we could have a 1/2 kilometer drag race instead of the 1/4 mile 

Regards,

major


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Guess I better keep an eye on this one....


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

major said:


> EV racing is in its infancy. I for one would like to see the WEVRA established. World Electric Vehicle Racing Association. This would cover all types of EVs, 4 wheelers, 2 wheelers, boats, etc and all types of racing, drag, circuit, LSR or whatever. Why not have a universal worldwide rule book and record book? And then maybe we could have a 1/2 kilometer drag race instead of the 1/4 mile


It would be nice to start something like that. It should give the EV community as a whole a boost, as well as more legitimacy. 

BTW, we run 400m drags here, not 500m (1/2 km), which is close enough to 1/4 mile for most people. We can assign responsibility for the missing (or extra) millimetres to a neutral party (metricmind ). 

I am personally not involved in any kind of racing locally, but it would be a good idea if everyone with an interest in your proposal can join forces so that something can be done. Why not start a thread to elicit response from members that is interested in racing to see what the level of interest is. From there it should not be too difficult to draw up a cunstitution and get everything running. Someone on this board should have the knowledge on how this is done - let us show some support for major here please!

Regards
Dawid


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## mhud (Oct 19, 2009)

DawidvC said:


> BTW, we run 400m drags here, not 500m (1/2 km), which is close enough to 1/4 mile for most people. We can assign responsibility for the missing (or extra) millimetres to a neutral party (metricmind ).


So you don't use the rolling-eyes emoticon in vain, here's the math:

400M is shorter than 0.25 miles by:
2.3 meters; 7.7 feet; or 91.9 inches​
So Americans and Britons are going to have a little extra distance on the strip. A quick calculation: if White Zombie was on a 400M strip for its most recent record-breaking run, its time would have been 0.04222 seconds faster, 10.215 instead of 10.258. This is under the _faulty_ assumption that White Zombie reached its terminal speed of 123.79MPH before the final 92 inches.


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## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> What I make in one month most make in one year. Our Association has done more in the past month for the East Coast than NEDRA has done in 10 years. ...


 
Easy there hoss, haven't seen anything you've done yet. Just the Power of DC which has been running 9 years solid is more than you've done. How come we've never seen your rigs at the Power of DC... since you have so many....

Subscribing


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## zeroemission (Sep 14, 2010)

i TOTALLY agree that EVERYONE into EVs should be enthusiastic about EV dragsters! 

a lot of people (i call "gas holes") buy cars for power & speeds etc. just watch TV commercials... there's generally always 2 things used to sell cars, speed & power. by power, i mean brute "get out of my way" force, not HP.

EV dragsters appeal to the human reptilian brain much more than saving the planet does, otherwise, there wouldn't be so few econoboxes on the road today.

if enough people take to EV racing and start smoking big block gas holes, they'll become converts too and EVENTUALLY you'll start seeing "electric dragster" magazines on shelves.

drag racing, much more than production vehicles, will win the hearts & minds of the public. the oil industry might own the media, but they don't own the dragstrips or the internet.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Your theory doesn't really hold with reality. Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, to name a few, are some of the best selling cars in America, and they don't sell because of their racing heritage or snazzy styling. They sell because of reliability, economy, safety, and comfort. I don't think "race on Sunday sell on Monday" is that relevant these days.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Your theory doesn't really hold with reality. Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, to name a few, are some of the best selling cars in America, and they don't sell because of their racing heritage or snazzy styling. They sell because of reliability, economy, safety, and comfort. I don't think "race on Sunday sell on Monday" is that relevant these days.


I really don't want to get into this debate, but "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" is indeed still a very effective marketing philosophy. They don't sell the vehicles that "win", they sell what they have in the dealership. Corvette Racing spends a lot of time and money for C6Rs to win on Sunday, so dad can come into the Chevy dealership (still salivating) Monday morning. He leaves, proudly, in a new Malibu - which was built by the same company that won the day before. Have you noticed that no one complains about Government Motors spending money on a racing program?

Toyota has their bodywork and name on American-built, Hemi-powered, funny cars - millions of dollars to claim a "win" that has nothing to do with the family sedan they'll sell because of it.

On a slightly different note, but using the same philosophy, that's the real point of halo cars of like the Vette, Viper, Prowler, etc. They build value in the brand. They "win" in a different manner, but sell in the same vein.

Rapper rents a Lambo and a mansion, to flim his video. People buy anything with his name attached, because he's a "winner".

Winning always sells - almost anything...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Winning always sells - almost anything...


That's the theory of course, but I wonder what percentage of purchasers of the cars I mentioned have any awareness of the racing presence of Honda or Toyota. My impression is that Toyota has one of the least race oriented vehicle lineups yet they are highly successful.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> O.K. So whose records will those be? NHRA? NEDRA? Or any other sanctioning body which happens to decide to muddy the waters?
> 
> How many rule books and record books are really needed?
> 
> major


I can't speak for other organizations. I support the NHRA and IHRA, I wouldn't call their organizations "muddy the waters". The records I speak of will be ECEDRA records.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

zeroemission said:


> if your ultimate goal is to create the world's quickest car and you have the unlimited resources to build a no holds barred ride, instead of looking for one big motor, i'd suggest 4 smaller ones in a 4wd configuration. controllers & dialing it in would be a pain, but i'd bet a nickel if someone tried it, they could beat the zombie. if you were cram everything into a feather wight fiberglass kit car, you'd get even more performance. if i had the finances to get in the game, i'd go up against the zombie in an electric sand rail. you can't get much lighter than that and they allow much bigger slicks than the zombie. wheelie bars would be necessary though. it's amazing the ETs zombie pulls off with such tiny slicks in an aerodynamic "brick". seeing the big slicked mazda doing wheelstands yet not being able to beat the Z is a testament to dude's alchemy skills. instead of raising the motor, try dropping the weight... get a smaller car and a fiberglass front end etc. which are "old school" drag racing technologies that still work. funny cars & rails are more than just "big motors".


Thank you for the input. We have plans for a complete "kit" car custom built lightwieght frame which will house two motors direct drive. This will be our fastet dragster. I am pricing complete custome drag racing frames. We expect our team to race atleast five cars by the end of the summer.

The 3000GT will be complete in December, the 300ZX in Jan/Feb. We are waiting for our motors from George at Netgain. 

The 3000GT is front wheel drive so traction will be a issue, the benefit will be the higher RPM's from the 11HV motor. The 1/4 speed should be around 12 seconds and top speed very high over 150 mph on the highway. 

The 300ZX is limited to 1/4 mile track racing only, the direct drive (no trans) leaves us with a gear ratio that will not do well on the highway, another words the car will max out rpm's at the end of the 1/4 mile. This car will clock in under 10 seconds.

The fully custom tube frame dragster will be very very quick and race the 1/4 mile only.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

electrabishi said:


> Easy there hoss, haven't seen anything you've done yet. Just the Power of DC which has been running 9 years solid is more than you've done. How come we've never seen your rigs at the Power of DC... since you have so many....
> 
> Subscribing


Mike,

Still trying that low self esteem attack campaign. Mike I apologized to you and the NEDRA board and you still bad mouthed ECEDRA and me personally. I have nothing else to say to you and your organization. 

Wow, Power of DC has been running for 9 years wippydo! I am glad for you, what happen to the rest of the East Coast? I tried to help your organization expand, but, your computer gangsters attacked us and thru us to the dogs. 

Well, ECEDRA is well on its way without you and your west coast family fued. Keep an eye on our website, you will see our times at the track. Feel free to race me anytime, I would even put up a purse of $5000.00, that offer goes to you to Major. In regards to your cheerleader guy Dave C. he is another car I will race anyday of the week. 18 seconds should be easy to beat. 

Let the forum see, I am calling you out, dare to race me in the spring?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> The 300ZX is limited to 1/4 mile track racing only, the direct drive (no trans) leaves us with a gear ratio that will not do well on the highway, another words the car will max out rpm's at the end of the 1/4 mile. This car will clock in under 10 seconds.


A sub 10 1/4 should put you over 130 mph final speed, why wouldn't that do well on the highway at 70+ mph?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You are correct, but when I referred to highway speeds I meant top speed performance, between 80 to 150 mph. Without a transmission your range is set by motor max rpm's matched with rear diff gear ratio. 

I have retained the use of the transmission on the 3000GT just for that reason, to gain very high top speads in the 100's range.



JRP3 said:


> A sub 10 1/4 should put you over 130 mph final speed, why wouldn't that do well on the highway at 70+ mph?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Feel free to race me anytime, I would even put up a purse of $5000.00, that offer goes to you to Major. In regards to your cheerleader guy Dave C. he is another car I will race anyday of the week. 18 seconds should be easy to beat.
> 
> Let the forum see, I am calling you out, dare to race me in the spring?


That's real brave of you. Calling out a road biker and a guy who runs NiCads.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

OH, I'm sorry, it is okay for you and Mike to attack our every step? Put your money where your mouth is, you guys continue to talk trash. I am willing to put up! You guys are not? I have over 20 years of drag racing experience, how about you?

We all have a history, but, today is today. You guys want to continue this pissing matches, lets do it on the track! Enough of this computer tough-guy stuff. Chip, Mike, Major you guys are the main mouths I keep reading about attacking our organization, enough is enough. I will state this publicly again, I will blow your doors off! MEET ME ON ANY TRACK WITHIN REASONABLE DISTANCE. 



major said:


> That's real brave of you. Calling out a road biker and a guy who runs NiCads.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> but, today is today.


What do you have today? What is your electric race experience? For you "today" is pretend. At least Dave C has an electric sub 18 time slip. Do you?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You know what I have today, 3 EV Dragsters under construction. What's your point? They will be completed very soon. 

EV race experience does not matter, DRAG RACING experience matters. In that department I have over 20 years. Stop these childish games, let me know when any of you accept my challenge. Untill then your posts are worthless.



major said:


> What do you have today? What is your electric race experience? For you "today" is pretend. At least Dave C has an electric sub 18 time slip. Do you?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> ....What's your point?....Stop these childish games,....





LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> ....dare to race me....


Childish games??? Who's childish? I double dog dare you to beat Dave C's 18 seconds in the next month in his EV class.

Come on. We all know what your game is. Any publicity is good publicity. I took a visit on your copy cat web site. Been up for a month or so, right? You have one signed up for your forum. Maybe that was you? You have several race dates. Got any racers?

Give me a break. Just like with your stock market tips. You're trying to cash in on something here. Well, like I told you, I'm just a bystander. But this stinks.

major


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

You are way off base. "Trying to cash in", are you kidding me? with what our small membership fee's??? This organization has cost me thousands of dollars. I have paid all expenses out of my pocket, we do have sponsorship which helped when building the cars, but, all other expenses I have paid. 

My bread and butter is my moving company, ECEDRA is for the people. Ask any one of your NEDRA buddies, there is no profits in this type of organization. All the race events will have generators supplied by ECEDRA (my pocket) and all advertising costs come from my pocket. Where do you think I am making any money? In time ECEDRA will become self-sufficient, but, for now I pay all expenses, so I resent your accusations.

In regards to EV Racers, not sure how many will show, we have been promoting all over the East Coast. One thing I do know is the Lithiumaniacs EV Race Team will compete in every event with atleast 3 to five cars. 



major said:


> Childish games??? Who's childish? I double dog dare you to beat Dave C's 18 seconds in the next month in his EV class.
> 
> Come on. We all know what your game is. Any publicity is good publicity. I took a visit on your copy cat web site. Been up for a month or so, right? You have one signed up for your forum. Maybe that was you? You have several race dates. Got any racers?
> 
> ...


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Where do you think I am making any money?.... so I resent your accusations.


I see it on you moving company web site. Might be some write off there????

Hey. I don't know whether it is monetary or just ego. But somewhere there you have to be the boss. Racing? Records? Make your own? No competition when your record books are clean, right? 

And you chicken, you didn't take my double dog dare.

major


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Is the NEDRA board this much fun?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> Is the NEDRA board this much fun?


Yes.  It's the "spirit" of EV drag racing.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm starting to give serious consideration to locking this thread if this continues.....


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

david85 said:


> I'm starting to give serious consideration to locking this thread.....


Works for me  Thanks.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

david85 said:


> I'm starting to give serious consideration to locking this thread if this continues.....


You really should, and continue to lock anything like it. This is a nice site, focused on EV tech, but this kind of "debating" is like a virus. It will intensify, attract more moths to the flame, and even convert some of the faithful. Serve a message that it won't be tolerated, and keep the integrity of the community safe.

If you really look at it, the original topic of discussion has been completely lost and there really isn't anything productive coming out of what's been going on since...


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