# Mating two me1003 motors together...



## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

I have two ME1003 motors. I'd like to put them together and run them in parallel off my SPM72650 controller.

There is no double end shaft for the ME1003 motor, but I can access the shaft after taking off the rear cover plate. It's flush.

The front shaft is 7/8" diameter with 3/16" keyway. The internal thread on the crankshaft is 7/16"-20. 

Motor diagram for reference: http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/yhst-129399866319704/ME1003drawing.pdf

So, hypothetically, if I were to tap the rear shaft with the same thread type, would it be able to handle up to 60 ft-lbs of torque of the motor without destroying the threads? This is my last resort to couple the motor, but this seems to be the only way.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

The 7/16-20 connexion seem a really bad idea to me. Poor torque capability, alignment problems, etc.

From what I can see about this motor on the internet you will have hard time to fix anything on the rear part of the shaft.
Maybe it's time to build a new single shaft for two motors... Fun project


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Back in 2011, one of our bikes (Voltron 1) had 2 Agni's joined by the drive end of the shafts. The joiner had a sprocket on it. If you get the tolerances to a minimum you should be able to make a split-clamped shaft joiner.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Yabert said:


> The 7/16-20 connexion seem a really bad idea to me. Poor torque capability, alignment problems, etc.
> 
> From what I can see about this motor on the internet you will have hard time to fix anything on the rear part of the shaft.
> Maybe it's time to build a new single shaft for two motors... Fun project


Unfortunately, making it a single shaft would make replacing the front motor's brush assembly impossible.

I actually just went through the process of replacing the assembly for the single ME1003 on my Sandrail. Turns out I didn't notice the "peak amp" setting was selected when Alltrax sent back the controller from repair, and it's my understanding that it bypasses all current limits at WOT. I knew something had to be wrong when I would see momentary bursts of 500A+ in the middle of the RPM band before back EMF naturally limited the current. It felt awesome, but even my active fan cooling couldn't keep one of the brushes from premature failure. I updated with the newer style brush set after cleaning off the commutator, but I'm still weary of going over 400A peak motor setting while rowing through gears.

I agree with the shaft alignment issues and risk of shredding the threads at high torque. I'm exploring all options, and I basically just needed someone to tell me it was a bad idea... because it felt like one.



RIPPERTON said:


> Back in 2011, one of our bikes (Voltron 1) had 2 Agni's joined by the drive end of the shafts. The joiner had a sprocket on it. If you get the tolerances to a minimum you should be able to make a split-clamped shaft joiner.


The issue: My setup is mounted to a VW transaxle through a single shaft coupler. I actually looked at 1:1 gear drives with dual inputs and single outputs, likes this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Hub-Cit...264919?hash=item419dcbf9d7:g:mDgAAOSwAodWFII5

After looking at datasheets, I can't find anything that would accept ~3500 rpm and the potential 100-120 ft-lb torque levels with the same shaft size of my motors (or a reasonable price). I'd hate to modify something like this, only to shred the internal gears running both motors at 720A peak amp mode. I'm running out of ideas though.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

If build a new shaft sound impossible to you, your best bet is probably to stack the two motor (picture) by building a new longer/bigger shaft for the transmission input.

Or... simpler, stop playing with those small permanent magnet motors and try to find a 8'' forklift motor with double brushes per pole. 
It will take the 740 Amps from your controller and give you lot of torque for a similar weight at two ME1003 + shaft, adapter, belt/pulley and supports.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Yabert said:


> If build a new shaft sound impossible to you, your best bet is probably to stack the two motor (picture) by building a new longer/bigger shaft for the transmission input.
> 
> Or... simpler, stop playing with those small permanent magnet motors and try to find a 8'' forklift motor with double brushes per pole.
> It will take the 740 Amps from your controller and give you lot of torque for a similar weight at two ME1003 + shaft, adapter, belt/pulley and supports.



I have looked into the Netgain motors. A single Warp 9 weighs 165 lb, and I don't believe I can really take advantage of its potential with my system running 74v nominal. The total weight of two ME1003 motors is 76 lb. I could hypothetically mate the two with a robust 80 pound gearbox and still be lighter than using a single Warp 9 motor. I could be wrong, but this nice analysis of the Warp 9 gave me the impression that my low system voltage would make it lackluster: Blog link Also... with a series wound motor, wouldn't I have to add an RPM limiter of some kind for occasions when I accidentally applied the throttle in neutral? 

I hope you understand trying to work with what I already have. In hindsight, I would have done a lot of different purchases in my build. My controller has an absolute peak of 90v, 60 minute current rating of 450A, 2 minutes at 650A, and momentary 740A. My single ME1003 accelerated very well when over-amped. I would be happy with that level of performance just divided between two motors to make it more robust. If it ends up being completely impractical to accomplish, I'll look into different motors.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jayls5 said:


> I have looked into the Netgain motors. A single Warp 9 weighs 165 lb, and I don't believe I can really take advantage of its potential with my system running 74v nominal. The total weight of two ME1003 motors is 76 lb. I could hypothetically mate the two with a robust 80 pound gearbox and still be lighter than using a single Warp 9 motor. I could be wrong, but this nice analysis of the Warp 9 gave me the impression that my low system voltage would make it lackluster: Blog link Also... with a series wound motor, wouldn't I have to add an RPM limiter of some kind for occasions when I accidentally applied the throttle in neutral?
> 
> I hope you understand trying to work with what I already have. In hindsight, I would have done a lot of different purchases in my build. My controller has an absolute peak of 90v, 60 minute current rating of 450A, 2 minutes at 650A, and momentary 740A. My single ME1003 accelerated very well when over-amped. I would be happy with that level of performance just divided between two motors to make it more robust. If it ends up being completely impractical to accomplish, I'll look into different motors.


Look for a short 6.7" DC motor. They're typically around 10" long, and 40-50lbs. I have been using them in the bikes and have been very pleased with them. The little GE I had in it for the past couple years was very strong. My Alltrax controller was only 48v/300a, and the (4-AGM) batteries I had in it could only do 160amps max draw, but the bike felt nice (people who don't really know speed thought it was fast). We just purchased an HPEVS AC motor that's the same exact size with very nice dyno charts, so this size motor has lots of potential. If you go DC, look for one with double brushes. I know D&D has motors this size new, but can't remember whether the brushes are double or single. I had one of those but sold it because it was SepEx - I really wish I would have kept it, and another GE I had...


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Jayls5 said:


> I hope you understand trying to work with what I already have.


I understand your point. And because I like the simplicity and the cost of 72v systems and your project I try to help you my best.
First, don't spend money on a new serie wound dc motor, they don't worth the value. When I suggest you a serie wound motor, I'm talking about a 8'' or 9'' motor (100-130 lbs) you will take out from a forklift for 100$ or 200$.
Second...



Jayls5 said:


> I'm exploring all options...


If you really exploring all option, I maybe have this for you.
You will need really good machining skills, but that can work. You can extend the rear shaft by adding a small shaft to your motor.
Remove your bearing (6006)*, press this little shaft on your motor (blue part), after you tighten the 5/16-18 screw in the center and after you drill the 3 holes for the 3/16 dowel pins (red). At the end you will need a new larger bearing (6907, green).
With that, the press fit (blue) and the screw will fix the shaft in place and the three pins (red) will transmit the torque.
That imply a ton of machining skills because after that you will need to build a precise adapter between the two motors and a hub to joint the shafts...., but that can be done. Good luck! 

*I'm maybe wrong by supposing that the rear bearing is a 6006 (30x55x13).


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Thank you all for the detailed replies.

Hypothetically, if I lined up the front and rear of both motors perfectly when mounting... could I rely on the other motor's front bearing to act as the rear bearing of the other motor? Or is that stupid?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

That sounds reasonable. I'd replace it with a high quality bearing. You could potentially even let that bearing carry the weight of your second motor so that it self-aligns and have a floating rear torque mount/arm for the stator/housing. If that doesn't make sense in writing let me know and I'll draw it up and post it.

The biggest issue still is how you link the two motors. How much shaft length is available for Yabert's interference diameter? I recommend 20mm length or 1 inch. And the coupling needn't be complicated, a dual keyway sleeve with grub screws over the second motor shaft and loctite. 

Is there facility to bolt to the back of the first motor?


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

tylerwatts said:


> That sounds reasonable. I'd replace it with a high quality bearing. You could potentially even let that bearing carry the weight of your second motor so that it self-aligns and have a floating rear torque mount/arm for the stator/housing. If that doesn't make sense in writing let me know and I'll draw it up and post it.
> 
> The biggest issue still is how you link the two motors. How much shaft length is available for Yabert's interference diameter? I recommend 20mm length or 1 inch. And the coupling needn't be complicated, a dual keyway sleeve with grub screws over the second motor shaft and loctite.
> 
> Is there facility to bolt to the back of the first motor?


Yabert's picture at the beginning of the thread does a good job showing the back of the motor with the black fan cover plate removed. The rear shaft holding the bearing seems to be a smaller diameter than the front (keyed) driveshaft of the motor.

In regards to bolting to the back of the motor, I think the screw spacing is the same as the mounting holes in the front. Not sure if it's the same diameter & thread, but that would be awesome. If they were the same... maybe I could secure them with a threaded rod with reversing thread directions like this:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-rods/=10sbo5n. It's the one that says "Right- to Left-Hand Thread Adapting Studs"

That would get the centering done, and the rest would simply be coupling the shafts and the bearing upgrade you suggested. Forgive me, but I don't even know what Yabert's interference diameter is. If I had to guess, the rear shaft sticks out the back around 1" if you removed that rear bearing. It has no keyway and I'd need to measure to see how much smaller the rear shaft is. You think this is doable with off the shelf parts to couple it and mild modification? I don't have a keyway broach to cut in a proper keyway... is a trip to the machine shop in order? 

I have one of these couplers already:
http://www.rollerchain4less.com/78-Shaft-Coupler_p_1450.html?gclid=CPK-4qPEvMoCFYIfHwoduZ4Crw
but that rear shaft is a smaller diameter... I'm assuming it's a 5/8" rear shaft for the time being until I can measure it.

I found the perfect adapter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-8-X-7-8-X...392158?hash=item4d3e57535e:g:JHcAAOxyFupR4bOO

Slips over the (presumed) 5/8" rear shaft and adapts it to the 7/8" front shaft of the other motor, same keyway size. I just need to cut a keyway on that rear shaft, and I think that might be the solution. Thoughts?

I also happen to have one of these motor mounts that is designed to bolt to the front of the motor so you know this is at my disposal if needed:
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/DCW-ETEK50.html


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

If you have 1" protruding plus the bearing width I'd say that is plenty. The left right bolts are perfect to pull it together. It must be a key way so need to machine the shaft. 



One idea was mentioned before to run the second motor at higher voltage from a second controller for power at higher speeds. This would be ideal as there would be less torque through your coupler also.

So the mods I recommend then:

- one key way in the rear shaft of motor 1, 1" long.

- sliding shaft to fit over key of both motor 1 small rear shaft and motor 2 large main shaft. There must be 0.05-0.1" float or movement on this bush.

- left/right dual thread bolts to clamp the motors together. I would suggest a spacer ring also so that when the bolts tighten it is against a flat square clamped surface rather than loads through the shafts.

- replace and even upgrade the rear bearing on motor 1 and even the front bearing on motor 2.

- run separate controllers with high torque on motor 1 (amps) and high voltage on motor 2 with lower torque.



In fact both motors can be high voltage bit run lower current/torque through motor 2 and a slower slew rate (how fast the power comes on) to preserve the coupling. That keeps the controllers and battery the same. Both controllers can share the same battery wired in parallel but the battery must be capable of providing the combined current both controllers will need.



Does that make sense. Remember it I my suggestion and how I would start.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

tylerwatts said:


> If you have 1" protruding plus the bearing width I'd say that is plenty. The left right bolts are perfect to pull it together. It must be a key way so need to machine the shaft.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm glad my little idea might work; confirmation goes a long way from people who have more experience in the mechanical aspect of things. 

I just so happen to still have my SPM72400 controller along with the SPM72650. Higher voltage packs are out of the question at the moment. I can set the rear motor to have a slow acceleration ramp to reduce the jarring loads on this ghetto fabulous motor coupling. If both controllers were set in peak amp mode... I could do momentary bursts of up to 1200A.  

Continuous duty (60 min) rating would be 270A for the SPM72400 and 450A for the SP72650. I already have the extra fuse, but I am afraid I'm exceeding my single contactor's rating. My shunt is a 600A DELCO one, think that will be sufficient?

My batteries can definitely handle it (20C rated 90AH). If I pull this off, I think my little Sandrail will finally perform like it looks! 

After I'm done with this stretch of six 12 hour shifts in a row, I'll start the process of this upgrade and document it here.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm not sure to fully understand your idea, but if it mean remove the rear bearing of the motor#1 and let the front bearing of the motor#2 align the front motor, I have to say: be careful!

If there is few 0,001" between the differents parts who fix the two motors, that mean the commutator of the motor #1 will not be concentric. At high speed and high amps the brushes will bounce and there will probably have problems.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Yabert said:


> I'm not sure to fully understand your idea, but if it mean remove the rear bearing of the motor#1 and let the front bearing of the motor#2 align the front motor, I have to say: be careful!
> 
> If there is few 0,001" between the differents parts who fix the two motors, that mean the commutator of the motor #1 will not be concentric. At high speed and high amps the brushes will bounce and there will probably have problems.


Luckily, this isn't the fastest spinning motor... probably doesn't get much higher than 3300 RPM under load. At least I have that going for me. The piece of the motor that centers the rear bearing is the same part I'm using to center the motor I'll be bolting up, so I'm optimistic. I just need to make sure I screw the bolts in equally.

I agree with your spacer ring recommendation from earlier for the 4 bolt alignment. I think I might make my own slotted washers with some spare aluminum stock I have. Like this:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90339a039/=10stw78
Once the motors are lined up together, I'll tap the washers into place to stiffen things up between the motors. 

I found my calipers, and it does seem to be a 5/8" rear shaft. I went ahead and purchased that shaft adapting sleeve. The hole opening for the rear bearing (that I will be removing) is 0.95". While that's large enough to fit the 7/8" motor shaft, it is too small for the coupler & keyway. I will have to widen the hole.

*Summarized:*
I remove the rear bearing, cut in a keyway, use shaft sleeve to make both shafts effectively 7/8". Then, I widen the hole on back of motor to accommodate the OD of coupler. Motor's back plate screw terminals are the exact same spacing as the other motor's front mounting holes. I use those to align motor shafts and attach them with threaded rods. Slotted washers stiffen the connection on the threaded rods. I wish I had some CAD skills to make this easy to visualize.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Jayls5 said:


> Motor's back plate screw terminals are the exact same spacing as the other motor's front mounting holes. I use those to align motor shafts and attach them with threaded rods. Slotted washers stiffen the connection on the threaded rods.


I'm not confident about this. The alignment will not be accurate.

Are you confirming that the rear shaft diameter is only 5/8'' (16mm)? Really that small!


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

Yabert said:


> I'm not confident about this. The alignment will not be accurate.
> 
> Are you confirming that the rear shaft diameter is only 5/8'' (16mm)? Really that small!


Pretty sure. My calipers aren't the best, but it looks like between 0.62-0.63 in. I'm not sure if the shaft is tapered yet. I don't have a gear puller at the moment:











Here's the outer hole I will need to widen to fit a coupler:









I'm looking into flanged bearing mounts since I'll be widening the hole anyway... still open to ideas.

A clean picture of the back after I repaired/replaced the motor brush and cleaned the commutator:


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Hum! Jay.... I think you are screwed.
I'm fear you will never do something interessant with this tiny and short 5/8" shaft.
Maybe you can start to strongly consider to replace this shaft by a bigger/longer one. By the same time, replace the rear bearing by a bigger one (maybe a 6006 like in front).
Oh! and if you do this, why don't build a siamese with both motors on the same shaft? You will save the coupler problematic by building a siamese. The brushes can be at each end of the siamese motor (pic).

Well, after all this dreaming I think than everything I've said in the post #5 is still 100% appropriate 
By the way, thanks for the interesting pics.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Yabert said:


> simpler, stop playing with those small permanent magnet motors and try to find a 8'' forklift motor


given the me1003 goes for $600, and you need 2 of them, it is great advice. you can probably find a whole vw conversion kit for that with motor.

besides vented pm motors can suck in magnetic debris and keep it there.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Jay, I must be honest, I thought the brushes were at the other end of the motor. I agree with Yabert's concerns. Do you know how the rotor is fitted to and locked to the shaft? I would lean to a siamese motor if simple enough to remove those rotors from the shafts. You can still power them separately. Do you have any pics of the rotor out the motor please?



Or tell me to stop interfering if you wish. I'm all for using these motors personally but share dcb's warning of foreign debris. I'd put a filtered forced air cooling on to blow away dirt and keep it clean.


Tyler


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

tylerwatts said:


> Jay, I must be honest, I thought the brushes were at the other end of the motor. I agree with Yabert's concerns. Do you know how the rotor is fitted to and locked to the shaft? I would lean to a siamese motor if simple enough to remove those rotors from the shafts. You can still power them separately. Do you have any pics of the rotor out the motor please?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even if I don't end up going with suggestions, I like hearing them. I'll never give someone a hard time about concerns over a design. I know my plan has been kind of difficult to describe, so I'm including pics.

I've been using a 8" automotive fan on mine for added cooling:









While it definitely improved airflow over stock, I think a squirrel cage style blower is more effective at pushing air through confined spaces inside the motor. I'm working on doing that, which would also easily allow me to place a generic filter on the inlet. I've seen several failures of this motor evidenced to be caused by foreign debris, so I'm interested in filtering for sure.

Yes, the brush assembly bolts on the back:


























Main body piece removed that centers the bearing:








(Ignore the 4 marks I made from initially using bolts that were too long when rigging up the automotive fan.)
Brush assembly only removed:









Basically, the same piece that is responsible for centering that rear bearing has 4 bolt holes that are only used for the rear cover plate (or fan assembly in my case). I'm pretty sure it's the EXACT spacing as the front mounting holes of my other motor, allowing it to line up perfectly. I've looked up keyed motor shaft specs on McMaster, and the small rear shaft size seems to be within the maximum torque capability of my motor. If I can basically just put in a larger bearing into the assembly to accommodate the outer diameter coupler. I discovered a local electric motor rebuilding shop, so I'll be talking to them soon for more hands on advice from an expert.

If you want a video of someone who fully disassembled this motor, you can watch this guy's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqkSu7j-QA Just watch it if you need more information about how it's put together. I think it's clear that his motor was one of the ones that died from a pebble / sand being sucked in based on the gouging of the commutator. You'll have to ignore his complaints about the quality of the motor. Debris getting in isn't the fault of the manufacturer IMO.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Jay do you have a pic of the rotor out the housing? Pics of both ends of the shaft leaving the rotor and any detail of how it is assembled onto the shaft and locked from rotation?


Tyler


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

I don't have a gear puller or snap-ring pliers handy for my own disassembly, but I took some screenshots of the youtube video I linked. This was the guy's failed motor that sucked up some dirt/sand. It's the best I can give you for now. The weather is terrible today and the motor shop hasn't called back yet.

Screnshots:

Rotor & back case:
















Inside the front case containing magnets & front bearing:


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Where's the video link jay? I'll check that out, may tell me what I'm asking. Thanks 


Tyler


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqkSu7j-QA


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Jay

That's a complicated arrangement.

Check this out, perfect size and I think even the same bolt pattern to mount it:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/28-HP-Advanced-DC-Motor-/281928116629?nav=SEARCH

Sorry about that rubbish URL, on my phone...

That's cheap and brand new. Plenty forklift type options and I side with Todd's recommendation of a small GE motor, well built and will throw out loads of motivation for your ride.


Tyler


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Bit big but includes forced air cooling!

http://m.ebay.com/itm/GE-Motors-Kin...micon-DC-Tach-APY-50-/111789279957?nav=SEARCH 


Tyler


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Might be a bit small but plenty power with higher voltage.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-GE-DC-MOTOR-5BCG52MA100A-/121816642280?nav=SEARCH 


Tyler


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Lots of options to sift through. Have a look and post here or in the motors thread for advice.


Tyler


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

That 28hp Advanced DC motor is a SepEx motor, plus you would have to develop an end cap, and adapt to the female splined shaft. SepEx alone, unless you find motor/controller package is enough to walk the other way...


Blue GE is shunt wound - probably worse...

Black GE has female shaft again, and is rated at 12/24v. It doesn't give the RPM at the rated voltage, so you'd have to think about how fast it would be turning.


Finding a good used motor is a game of patience. I've purchased around eight of them through eBay, but I kinda stalked my saved search and jumped when I found what I thought I wanted.

I've seen 8 and 9 inch motors for a couple/few hundred bucks.


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## dain254 (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm in the same boat with my ME1003 - not quite enough power. Would definitely like to find something I can just toss a sprocket on that will kick out 100hp or so with a 120V setup, a good 8" or 9" would be ideal but I am too much of a newb to determine the good ones from the bad!


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

dain254 said:


> I'm in the same boat with my ME1003 - not quite enough power. Would definitely like to find something I can just toss a sprocket on that will kick out 100hp or so with a 120V setup, a good 8" or 9" would be ideal but I am too much of a newb to determine the good ones from the bad!


The power of the ME1003 really isn't bad:






Wanting two is more about improving continuous power handling, but I wouldn't mind the extra power


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

yah, it is a cute buggy, but it is kinda weak power-wise (subjective of course), launches ok but runs out of steam at like 15mph. power is torque TIMES speed(rpm)


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Todd. I missed a bunch of details using the phone to search.


Tyler


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## dain254 (Oct 8, 2015)

Oh I agree the power isn't that bad... it gets my machine around town, but it isn't that good either. From what I've been reading a properly fed warp 9 will put out 10x as much power... THAT is more like it.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

dcb said:


> yah, it is a cute buggy, but it is kinda weak power-wise (subjective of course), launches ok but runs out of steam at like 15mph. power is torque TIMES speed(rpm)


Yes, I know that.

I describe what each gear does in the youtube link. Brushed permanent magnet motors have a strict RPM/volt ratio (only sagging with load). This was a random fun video after I got off work one day. I knew 1st gear would keep me under the speed limit, and that's why I did it. If you pay close attention, 2nd gear pulls pretty good, but I only get into it for a few seconds. I'm easing into the brakes before I even pass the driveway.

If you would like, I can show you what this thing can do absent concerns of heat.


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## dain254 (Oct 8, 2015)

Has anyone tried to push 120V and 400A through the ME1003? Since everyone WAY overpowers the advertised rating of the 9" motors why can't we do something similar with this one? I could gear down and improve my acceleration AND gain a bunch of RPM so I could probably get more top speed as well!


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

dain254 said:


> Has anyone tried to push 120V and 400A through the ME1003? Since everyone WAY overpowers the advertised rating of the 9" motors why can't we do something similar with this one? I could gear down and improve my acceleration AND gain a bunch of RPM so I could probably get more top speed as well!


I'm forced air cooling, and per the owner of Motenergy, effective air cooling would bring up continuous handling to around 250, _maybe_ 275A. After breaking in the new brushes with better connections, I upped the motor current to 400A. The motor handled it fine when using 1st or 2nd gear to start and then cruising speed using 80-120A around town a little over 40 mph. The motor is uncomfortably hot to the touch and takes quite a while to cool off after a drive longer than 10 miles. I measured the copper coil temps near the front slots of the motor as hot as 90C. I have no idea what the brush area is since the fan blades are in the way.

I changed it to 600A motor current for (very) short drives before overheating, and that's when things got way more fun. The issue is longevity. I wouldn't even dare try it on a single speed vehicle though.


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## dain254 (Oct 8, 2015)

The single speed isn't as much of a detriment to my vehicle is it is an advantage. My motor will be pushing and 800 lb vehicle without the losses from your gearbox and universal axles - only losses through a well lubricated roller chain. At 40mph with lead Im pulling only 70-80A so there is a decent bit of efficiency to mine that a dune buggy is missing out on. That being said Im looking to gain only short bursts of high power for acceleration and turn up the rpm so i can increase my torque to the rear wheel by gearing down without losing top end. 

Found an article where a gentlemen was running an Me1003 on 100V and having no problems with his 600A controller. So it seems 60kw IS possible but temperaturr monitoring would be a must! a single 120V Volt module at 5kwh drops 400 lbs from my car - add the weight of me at 215 and im at 915. Ill give it a go and let u know what i find!


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

After much research and reluctance, I've decided to abandon my entire brushed setup.

If my controller did 144v, I could have run it in series to split the load on my 2 motors. However, when paralleled, it's practically impossible to split the power evenly between the two... which is bad when I'm running 240A over the absolute peak rating of the motors. Adding in my second controller had problems of its own (space + more wiring). Looks like I'll be selling some of it off.

I will be running an AC-20 on a Curtis 1238-7601. I'm upping my pack voltage to at least 96. Just purchased a used setup.

My new motor graph will look like this:
http://www.hpevs.com/Site/power_gra...50-amp/ac20 96 volt 650 amp peak imperial.pdf

I believe I'll be sacrificing a tiny bit of off-the-line starting torque. However, once it gets going, the torque is a little higher and goes through 2x the rev range. I'm confident that 2nd gear could accelerate to 55+ mph on this rather than ~40 mph, which would keep me happy. I'll be externally cooling the motor to keep continuous handling reasonable.

The new controller/motor should arrive in about a week. I'll make a new thread for it to show progress.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

If you're wanting more continuous power without overheating, I think you're going in the wrong direction. AIR the the continuous rating the for the AC20 is ~12HP vs. ~16HP (12kW) for the ME1003. Maybe a AC35 or even a AC50 would be more appropriate.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

electro wrks said:


> If you're wanting more continuous power without overheating, I think you're going in the wrong direction. AIR the the continuous rating the for the AC20 is ~12HP vs. ~16HP (12kW) for the ME1003. Maybe a AC35 or even a AC50 would be more appropriate.


The nice thing about the AC20 / Curtis combo is the motor temp monitoring and automatic power cutback to the motor. If my personal efforts to cool it don't work, the controller is hot-swappable with the larger HPEVS motors. If I push the AC-20 too hard, I just slow down. With my current rig, pushing it too hard results in a $100 brush replacement at the minimum, which I have already had to do.

The AC-20 has the exact same bolt pattern, shaft, and keyway as the ME1003... unlike the larger models. It will be a bolt in replacement, and the price was right for used. If I'm dissatisfied, I can put in one of their larger motors, but I'm going to give this one a shot first. I was also worried continuous handling, but I don't see how it could possibly be worse than the ME1003 given the similar efficiency and more thermal mass.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Well, let the rest of us know what happens. It would be a good chance to compare the two popular motors.


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