# Ep 1000



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I'd suggest reading on this forum first, before buying ANYTHING Paul Zigouras (Pzigouras) is selling:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ight=pzigouras

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ight=pzigouras

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ight=pzigouras

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ight=pzigouras


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Why do people ask about these things after buying them?

I would recommend hooking it up ASAP, running it in a safe location where you can easily cut the power to it when you smell/hear magic smoke, and demanding a refund as well as taking action via paypal or CC before it's too late.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

locomat said:


> Does anyone have any info about the EP 1000?
> The specs read good: voltage-72 to 240 current 0 to 1000amps +12v to turn on. The co is the EPC corp and it comes with a 1 year warrenty. It is a turn key operation auto configs itself for any motor, battery pack voltage with no settings to adjust or program. It is fully compatable with all brushed DC motors, including series-wound. permanent magnet, and seperatly excited motors, whatever that is? Info is at WWW.EPC-Corporation.com . I came accross it on ebay and purchased one for a reasonable price.


Sorry for your lost.

You should ask before buying.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

It would be great if you could take some pictures/video of this controller. The consensus here is that this product is a complete scam but it would be great to gather more evidence confirming that this thing is a joke so that no-one else wastes their money.


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

You have been scammed. Please do everybody a favor and go to the police.

Although, this criminal going by name "Paul Zigouras" has done his job quite well; instead of empty boxes, he throws in some kind of electronics so that he can always claim that it's a proper product, and it becomes difficult for complete laymen to evaluate whether it's a scam or not.

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Good grief, not again 

Really sorry you've wasted your money. 

Actually, you might be able to take it up with paypal to get a refund for it not bieng what it purports to be.


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

In case EPC has any kind of real warranty program you should keep that controller unopened no matter if it fails or not. EPC might not accept it back if you open it. Take pictures and some video of initial testing instead.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

locomat said:


> It is fully compatable with all brushed DC motors, including series-wound. permanent magnet, and seperatly excited motors, whatever that is? Info is at


Wait, they are now claiming that the same controller will work with just about any type of motor available for EV applications?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Including SepEx Aaaaaaa! I vote we all pitch in and buy one, take it apart and run a class action law suit against this sucker.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

rochesterricer said:


> Wait, they are now claiming that the same controller will work with just about any type of motor available for EV applications?


All DC motors, all battery packs! Auto detection! I can't wait for the next version with self charging!


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## locomat (Nov 12, 2009)

favguy said:


> Good grief, not again
> 
> Really sorry you've wasted your money.
> 
> Actually, you might be able to take it up with paypal to get a refund for it not bieng what it purports to be.


I started this project in 2009 but was put off because of a serious illness. I wanted so bad to complete this car and saw the EP1000 on ebay but I guess it was too good to be real. I can't really afford the cost of other controllers, so it will just have to wait! I did not use paypal because they wanted to have my bank acct # after 10 years of doing buisness with me.
So that option is out!


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

rochesterricer said:


> Wait, they are now claiming that the same controller will work with just about any type of motor available for EV applications?


"Snake oil seller" ?????? LOL


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> All DC motors, all battery packs! Auto detection! I can't wait for the next version with self charging!


Next version won't need a battery, it will be self powered  , so you will get an unlimited range EV if you buy it. LOL


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am amazed that these "controllers" are still being sold. The pictures are worth several thousand words. The perfboard with a cheap PWM board kludged together with a couple of scrounged IGBTs looks like some of my worst prototypes that I put together under the influence of ethanol. My namesake (Paul) seems to be adept at convincing rhetoric but lacking any true engineering (or even entry level technician or hobbyist) skills. Is this the same guy who sells the cheapo battery chargers using a motor starter capacitor in a wooden box? Caveat emptor!


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## locomat (Nov 12, 2009)

This is very humiliating and disapointing. I started this conversion a few years ago but had to leave it because of a sudden illness. I want to finish it badly so when I saw it on ebay I thought it was great. Now I will have to delay this project again. I did not use paypal so that option is out.Damm!!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

If you didn't use Paypal, how did you pay?

Take a look at the Open ReVolt controller. If you're good with electronics you can build it yourself or there's a guy here that builds them for lots cheaper than any other decent controller.


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## locomat (Nov 12, 2009)

With a credit card directly to epc


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

That can be reversed much easier than paypal.


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## PowerSurge (Jan 24, 2013)

Ziggythewiz said:


> If you didn't use Paypal, how did you pay?
> 
> Take a look at the Open ReVolt controller. If you're good with electronics you can build it yourself or there's a guy here that builds them for lots cheaper than any other decent controller.


Ziggy, do you have a link to where to get the Open Revolt? Would you suggest it over a Curtis 1231?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Yes I'd say over Curtis if your considering price as a main factor. It has been proven to be a reliable controller for those that wish to really get into the DIY thing. Lower price is a nice perk. 

I consider 500 amps minimum you should run for a decent running conversion. Below that you should have high voltage. 


http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/store/index.html


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## PowerSurge (Jan 24, 2013)

onegreenev said:


> Yes I'd say over Curtis if your considering price as a main factor. It has been proven to be a reliable controller for those that wish to really get into the DIY thing. Lower price is a nice perk.
> 
> I consider 500 amps minimum you should run for a decent running conversion. Below that you should have high voltage.
> 
> ...


I thought that might be the one, but they don't refer to it as an open revolt that I saw, so I wasn't sure.

I plan to run a Warp9 at 144v in an RX7. Think this would be a good option for me?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Kits from P&S or for pre-built ask this guy.

I haven't built one, but if I were starting fresh I certainly would. IIRC same or slightly better specs as a 1231 but programmable and half the price.


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

locomat said:


> With a credit card directly to epc


Contact your credit card issuer IMMEDIATELY, you still have good chance to save the day and get your money back. Don't let the scammer win and go away with the money.

Once done, also report the case to Ebay so that they can block this seller.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I can't understand how this guy can get 100% positive ratings on eBay if so many people have had bad experiences:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

He is still selling them:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPjr-DC-Motor-Controller-for-Electric-Vehicles-Cars-EV-/300871691695

I checked some of his dealers on the website. Some of the links don't work. However, I found one interesting dealer, particularly for their custom battery packs. Their 5.12 kWh pack for $2500 seems like a good deal, and I might be interested if it could be supplied as a 320V unit. But also check out their 345.6 kWh pack (which weighs 32 tons!) 
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/Special-Lithium-Custom-Packs_c_10.html


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> I can't understand how this guy can get 100% positive ratings on eBay if so many people have had bad experiences:


Perhaps they give feedback when they get the stuff and then you can't change it when it blows up...?


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I can't understand how this guy can get 100% positive ratings on eBay


It's simple -- eBay is quick to take action against sellers with negative feedback. Hence, only those scammers who know the right tactics to earn positive feedback, survive. So, you just don't see those with negative feedback. If he had a lot of negative, you wouldn't have a chance to wonder about his Ebay profile.

It's not difficult to run a scam... Just send something that looks like the actual product, in this case any electrical box is enough; it could be empty with some dummy weight. Most people type in the positive feedback once they have received the product. It's even safer for the scammer to use dummy accounts to "buy" a product and then give positive feedback.

Random dimmer circuit PCBs and power IGBTs that are stuffed inside these scams are an extra precaution; those allow him to claim that it actually is a controller. It may even actually work with a small test motor and low voltage -- it's cheap and easy to make a DC controller that simple. So, it becomes a nasty game where you need to dispute the quality of the electronics inside, and the criminal will just play along until it's late to open a case with the credit card issuer; or, more likely, the victim just wants to forget the case. 

Even if the case did go to Ebay, Paypal, the credit card issuer or authorities, it won't be a simple matter, as the scammer indeed _has_ provided the product and, to an outside layman, it looks like a proper electronic device. This particular scammer seems to have a lot of time to play along.

Heck, some victims may even think that _they_ have done something wrong when their brand new "controller" does not work or blows up.

The right thing to do is: 
Do not wait for explanations. Do not try to believe that "he might not be a crook". He is. Report him immediately and warn others. Don't listen to any explanations, he's just playing along, trying to win time. Don't give him more chances. All of this applies to any scammers out there. 99.9% of people you encounter are indeed "good" so it may be difficult to believe there are crooks but they really do exist.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Yes, those may be how he got most of his good feeback ratings. But I checked many of them and they seem to be from legitimate sellers. Maybe he "forces" customers to give good feedback before he provides technical support or agrees to a return. I generally wait a week or two after receiving an item and actually do some testing before giving honest feedback. That's what I did with the overrated 18650 lithium cells and NiMH AA cells. But I contacted the seller and received a partial refund so I still gave positive or neutral feedback with the actual test results. The seller probably did not know how poor the cells were and just displayed the capacity as printed on the cells, so the blame should be on the manufacturer. 

I have contacted a couple of his listed dealers and urged them to check out this thread. They seem to be legitimate operations and they should be warned if they are unknowingly selling junk. That may be another way to put the kebosh on this guy. 

It is still hard to fathom how someone could present such a convincing argument and operate a rather professional website, and then sell such an obviously kludged product with a cheap hand-assembled and poorly soldered experimenter perf-board. It would not cost much more to have a professional PCB made, and a reasonably proper design. But there is no way that any speed controller can supply 900 amps as claimed with a couple of IGBTs on a heat sink as shown that is good for no more than 200 watts. Those IGBTs probably drop about 1.5 volts at 900A which is about 1500W.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

locomat said:


> With a credit card directly to epc


REVERSE THE CHARGE! QUICK! Don't open it, send it back straight away.

Good luck.


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## locomat (Nov 12, 2009)

Yes I have taken steps and will let everyone know the results!


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Long story, short :



steve mauck said:


> Greetings to the Electric Car Forum. Wow! What an interesting bunch of topics. I'm glad I found this because I am just finishing up my S-10 conversion. Me and my son-in-law, Willie, have been working on the conversion since the First of June.
> 
> You should have seen us when we fired it up for the first drive after testing it on blocks. I ran it through the gears and it seemed okay. It was a little fast, but I told Willie, "when the weight is on the tires it will probably be much slower."
> 
> ...





steve mauck said:


> I am beginning to speculate that the failure that me and Willy had that sent us skidding and throwing gravel was not so much the Kilovac contactor failing but the Motor Controller failing.





major said:


> It is sounding like one of those EPC controllers





steve mauck said:


> I checked to see what I had. It is indeed an EPC 1000!





major said:


> That is unfortunate. There is a member PZigouras who was promoting these controllers a while back. I and others tried to warn people about the crap he was passing off. Do a search for PZigouras and read some of those threads.





steve mauck said:


> Oh My Heavens! I just took a couple of hours to read the several months of posts with Paul Zigouras. Of course that piece of junk is coming out of my electric S-10! That creep tried to kill me and Willy. This project is our first rebuild. We bought a used truck with the kit unused and still boxed up. The EPC 1000 was the motor controller. My only previous electronic experience is repairing and rebuilding antique tube radios. Willie's experience comes from being a general maintainance man at his work. Still, I imagine that we probably represent the average home brewers of electric vehicles. We take things at face value. We thought the "motor controller" was real. It nearly killed us, especially Willy. That E pic P iece of C rap 1000 goes into the trash in the morning. I'll be looking for a REAL motor controller.
> 
> My heartfelt thanks to you folks on the forum for taking the time to thoroughly interview Paul Zigouras and expose him for the fake he is.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Open that sucker and take photos. Take photos before opening for documentation. Do a video when you open it and take photos. Post them. The more exposure the better to get rid of this guy once and for all.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Excellent job of pulling that story and threading it together in a single post. No matter what you think, brakes will not stop a series wound motor directly shorted into a battery pack. The slower the motor goes the more the torque grows. 

I blew up a Curtis 1221 controller. The VW Beetle rear brakes did not seem to exist. Smoke rolled off the tires in a grand burnout as I launched. If you figure out how much torque the motor makes at about 5x the main pack fuse rating, and multiply that by the gear reduction between the motor and tires, you will have an idea of what you need to resist. This can quickly surpass 10,000 ft-lb of torque.


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

This is why the main contactor should absolutely be rated to interrupt the largest possible current the battery pack can supply at the DC voltage of the pack. Say, something like 5000A might be typical. It will cost more. But what needs to be done needs to be done....


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

This is also an example of how an AC motor may be more "fail-safe" than a series DC motor. And also a reason to keep the clutch, although that may have blown the motor with a DC pack directly connected to an unloaded series DC motor. Such motors have essentially infinite low end torque and infinite top end speed, limited only by resistance and limitations of brushes and commutator.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> This is why the main contactor should absolutely be rated to interrupt the largest possible current the battery pack can supply at the DC voltage of the pack. Say, something like 5000A might be typical. It will cost more. But what needs to be done needs to be done....


No, that's what a fuse is for.


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> No, that's what a fuse is for.


IMO, you need to have both just right for proper safety, especially for shady / DIY controllers.

The fuses have different profiles for current vs. breaking time, but there is no traditional passive fuse with a steep curve.

It is well possible that there is not enough current to blow up the fuse in a short enough time. Many people want to drive their battery packs and motors near their limits so they need to have relatively high-current fuses.

Furthermore, if the car really is going forward in the situation, the motor may not take enough current to blow the fuse, but you still want to stop.

This is why the contactor should be able to break the current which may be a lot more than the nominal fuse rating. Of course, you don't need to oversize the contactor over the "blow instantly" rating of the fuse, but that may be 3-10x of the nominal fuse rating. Just remember that.

For example, for a fuse rated at 500A, make sure that the contactor can break at least 2000-3000A, otherwise you may have your controller stuck on and motor taking for example 1000A, which will take ages to blow the fuse, from several seconds to minutes depending on fuse; too long in any case.

Contactor breaking current rating is different from the nominal current. Just make sure you know what it is before buying a contactor.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You said 5000 amps. How many contactors are you aware of that are rated for that? Plenty of fuses have a steep curve long before you get to 5000 amps.

Personally, I'd try to fuse between the controller's peak usage and peak capability.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> No, that's what a fuse is for.


NO! The high current DC rated fuses we use will pass 5 times their rated current for more than 1 second. This is all while the car is attempting a level of acceleration vastly stronger than anything you have ever felt driving it. I had a 250 amp main fuse and it never blew. The Optima batteries where not even warm. The Prestolite MTC motor though I was just playing. The Curtis 1221b was a smoking wreck. The chassis was horribly confused, with 2 wheels locked up tight and 2 wheels doing the best burnout ever. The Curtis Albright SW200 main contactor saved the day.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

EVfun said:


> NO! The high current DC rated fuses we use will pass 5 times their rated current for more than 1 second.


How many people are using 1000A continuous fuses?

I'm not saying a contactor can't save the day, I'm saying there's no need for it to be rated for 5000 amps. Most people won't even have batteries that could put out that much, and if the controller fails from a stop the motor current will be far higher than the battery current anyway.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> How many people are using 1000A continuous fuses?
> 
> I'm not saying a contactor can't save the day, I'm saying there's no need for it to be rated for 5000 amps. Most people won't even have batteries that could put out that much, and if the controller fails from a stop the motor current will be far higher than the battery current anyway.


A 250 amp fuse didn't save the day! I had a car that way trying to lunge from 0-60 mph in about 2 seconds. The brakes where loosing the battle to say no. The fuse could pass 1250 amps for more than 1 second -- I didn't figure out how far that would take me (that is roughly what you can get from an Opitma.)

I've seen the lowly Albright SW200 contactor do amazing things. I've seen them interrupt over 300 volts at a couple thousand amps (WAY beyond their ratings.) Irregardless of rating, you had better be confident your main contactor can stop you, because the fuse will not do so nearly soon enough. I tried... I learned!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> ..........if the controller fails from a stop the motor current will be far higher than the battery current anyway.


If the controller fails shorted, the motor current is the battery current.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes, but even in a shorted condition there's still resistance in the controller's ruins and combined with the motor it's far from the current you'd get in a full pack short.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Yes, but even in a shorted condition there's still resistance in the controller's ruins and combined with the motor it's far from the current you'd get in a full pack short.


"Far" is relative. In EVfun's EV, maybe 2500A short circuit current; maybe 1500A in his failure mode. With today's Lithium cells, you could see double those figures.


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## Lipo Louis (Oct 29, 2012)

I was thinking to install something like this at the dashboard, as a back up plan for dangerous situations. Ofcourse in combinaton with a relay and a fuse.

I have no experience with braking contacts or relay's at 2000A but a switch like this should be able to disconnect any current right ? Welding a switch or relay will only happen when making contact right not when braking a contact ? Or am I wrong ?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Lipo Louis said:


> ... a switch like this should be able to disconnect any current right ?


Err, no. The problem is that air itself (edit: technically, plasma) is a handy conductor at those sorts of currents. Proper contactors can interrupt massive currents because they have vacuum. You need around 1mm per volt to break an arc in air; for 144 V that's over 5.5 inches. Ask Plasma Boy how he got his name; better yet, google it. Basically, with DC, your only hope is to not create an arc in the first place.



> Welding a switch or relay will only happen when making contact right not when braking a contact ? Or am I wrong ?


Not so right. It's actually a lot harder to break a high DC current than to make it, at anything above about 24 VDC.

Edit2: after a proper contactor has interrupted 2000 A once, it's totally ruined. The specifications actually admit this: the number of expected cycles above a certain current is one. It lays down its life to protect you.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yeah, a turn switch maintenance disconnect is about the opposite of what you need. You want a contactor with mag blowouts to extinguish that arc.


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## Lipo Louis (Oct 29, 2012)

OK good info people, thanks, I didn't know that. Now I do and have to think about safety. I just wonder what would be the best solution to disconnect all power, at my Ebike I have made 2 micro switches for as an ebrake, but I don't know if a Soliton 1 also have a connection for an ebrake ?

And as for disconnecting all power....I have seen 1000A Contactors but they also cost about 1000 USD


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What are your microswitches disconnecting?

An EV200 is rated for a 2000A break, which is enough for nearly anyone without a racecar. I think an Albright is good for ~ 1500A, still plenty for most people.


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## Lipo Louis (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm sorry, I brought up 2 situations in 1 post.

For my 8KW E-Bicycle I epoxied a micro switch to the hydraulic brake lever and connected it to the Ebrake wire at the controller, so if the throttle is at error or the controller gives me full throttle for some reason, I just brake and the micro switch tells the controller to stop, that is my safety, if that won't work and I have the time before crashing I can put off the main power switch.

I hope and assume that the soliton 1 also has some kind of an Ebrake, instead of installing a new switch at the brake pedal we probably can use the original brake switch ? When braking with a car the braking lights go on, so I think on every car there is some kind of switch ?

As for the second safety, now I know that a contactor like the Kilovac Ev200 is necessary. I like testing the safety but testing the ev200 in a real situation like give full throtlle and disconnect the contactor will result in a useless contactor ?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Lipo Louis said:


> I hope and assume that the soliton 1 also has some kind of an Ebrake, instead of installing a new switch at the brake pedal we probably can use the original brake switch ? When braking with a car the braking lights go on, so I think on every car there is some kind of switch ?


The Soliton has a brake input. Most just connect it to the existing brake switch. Touching the brakes turns off the motor drive.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I still like the idea of a mechanical drivetrain disconnect (clutch). 

Another possibility is throwing a solid short across the battery pack past the fuse, and allowing it to blow open instantly (well, depending on actual current and its I^2T rating). This is essentially a "crowbar" such as often used to limit overvoltage to a sensitive circuit from a power supply. It can also be an SCR, although you must avoid conditions where it could trigger ON inappropriately. You can get a 1000A SCR for under $100:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6KV-1000A...ulator-Electronic-Thyristor-SCR-/310579517850

Or 1300A for $176:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMuAO0%2bGuNbnQqEIszQcKDi3tz0FM/ve98E=

Or 
http://www.newark.com/powerex/t9g0121203dh/scr-thyristor-1-88ka-1-2kv-t-9g/dp/48F7259


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Another victim http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=353522&posted=1#post353522

The snake oil seller is back in business, I don't know what to do : cry or laugh .


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Here's the link to his stuff:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/epc-corporation/m.html?item=300871691695&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Also noted that he does not accept returns. No wonder. He sells crap.


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