# [EVDL] EV PC ideas



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

OK, I was bored at work today and got to thinking about possibly using a small car PC to run stuff in an EV. If your geek-attude isn't up to date it isn't all that new of an idea.
Examples:
http://www.littlepc.com/products_fanless.htm
http://store.mp3car.com/Car_Computer_Systems_s/25.htm

So... If I had a car PC, I could use a multi channel USB DAQ to read the battery voltage of each battery. You could plot it on a screen like an equlizer. That's not such a new idea either.
Examples:
http://www.labjack.com/labjack_u12.php
http://www.weedtech.com/

Shoot.... If you are going that far, why not run the lights and such with a USB or serial relay board as well.
http://www.relaycontrollers.com/
http://www.rs232pro.com/rs232/rs232_relay_kit.htm
http://www.starting-point-systems.com/index.html


During my searches, Google showed me this little jewel
http://www.phidgets.com/

Woo! How cool is this?
http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?product_id=1117


Then I found the Fusion Brain on MP3car.com
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/FusionStore//catalog/faq_help.php

One of the coolest I found today was this site
http://www.relaycontrollers.com/

I might could even use an analog input and one of these hall effect amp sensors you guys were talking about a few days ago
http://www.hallsensors.de/CYHCS-OL-RW.htm


I have a Phillips Pronto touch screen TV remote that has a GUI where you build Icons and such to control home automation stuff, x-10 lights, TV remote etc. http://www.remotecentral.com/tsu7000/index.html I figure it would be completely possible to build a car PC that would have a similar touch screen and USB keyboard. I don't have a clue where to start with programming a front end program like that but one of the many on carPC, Phidgets, or NCD may be possible solutions. I've played with Visual Basic a little and I think it's reasonable. Most of this stuff runs on windows XP but I think windows CE would be better because of boot time. But... I found this http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/advfaq.php?do=view&advfaqid=35

Sorry about all the links. I now have so many possible ideas from all this its just to much to try to explain. Another possibility is motor thermal sensors with bar graphs (and alarms), speedometer that you create yourself, Connect and use the datalogs from a Zilla for battery monitoring, etc. It's much more money than I'd like to spend but you could start with just the PC and screen, add an MP3 player then build up from there.

Stub

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have been thinking along the same lines except less DIY. Just buy a 12V
modular PLC from Automation Direct with analog input modules to monitor each
battery using an isolation amplifier on each input. Use a C-More touch
screen interface. Add a temperature module in your favorite flavor of RTD
or thermocouple.

-It could be used to control charging by automatically switching a multi-tap
transformer to follow your favorite algorithm based on time, voltage, and
current. 
-It could provide overspeed protection because it has a high speed input.
-Control precharge.
-The display could be used for motor/pack amps, rpm, temperatures, MPH, etc.
-outputs could control annunciation lights or beepers
-Security alarm system
-Password protection for keyless powerup

Programming is done on a PC with simple ladder logic. A PLC is all solid
state, no hard drive or Microsoft operating system.

I think the total cost would be much less that the sum of individual
controls and you would have the freedom to change anything or add a
function.
-Stephen Chapman
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/EV-PC-ideas-tp20141519p20142244.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I hear ya, I also found the WinCon 8000 that ran Windows CE.
http://www.microdigit.hu/das/wincon/wincon-8000.htm
But the price of it, the modules and developing software would be as much as 
the car.

So which one on Automation Direct was you looking at? How difficult is it to 
program a cute little GUI for these things?

Stub





> enganear wrote:
> > I have been thinking along the same lines except less DIY. Just buy
> > a 12V modular PLC from Automation Direct with analog input modules to
> > monitor each battery using an isolation amplifier on each input. Use
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The AutomationDirect PLCs and touch screens are extremely easy to program
for. They can be a bit frustrating if you're used to more advanced languages
like C and are trying to do more advanced stuff, but they'd work great as a
monitor and logic controller for EVs. They could also measure temperatures
(with an add-on module) and control relays for stuff like pre-charge, fan
control, and other relay load control.

The touch screen is just a dumb interface to the PLC's memory; the touch
screen programming is basically a drag-and-drop GUI editor with some extra
features. The PLC is programmed with ladder logic, which is a semi-graphical
programming language that's meant to represent relays being wired together.
It also supports math, counters, and stuff as little blocks of a basic-like
language.

They're somewhat pricey, though. Here's the costs:
Touchscreen: $400 for 6 inch greyscale, $600 for 6 inch color, more for
bigger screens
PLC: $240 for DirectLogic 06 with 20 DC inputs and 16 relay outputs
Analog inputs: $140 for 8 16-bit 5/10V analog inputs (PLC holds up to 4
modules, lots of different modules available)
Cable between PLC and touchscreen: $20

There's also a bunch of one-time costs to be able to program it. The C-More
programming software is $130, and the PLC programming software is $400
(there's a free version for small programs under 100 words). The cable to
program the PLC costs $10, and the touch screen is programmed by a standard
USB cable.

Personally, my ideal car computer would be an embedded Linux system. I'd
enjoy doing the coding in C, though.

-Morgan



> Chris Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I hear ya, I also found the WinCon 8000 that ran Windows CE.
> > http://www.microdigit.hu/das/wincon/wincon-8000.htm
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Actually as industrial PLCs go, the Automation Direct equipment is fairly 
inexpensive.

I can agree with the 06 model being a good starting point. I think you can 
also program it in boolean if you are more comfortable with that method. I 
have used the ladder style for close to 100 of them over the years.

The C-More panel mentioned is not the least expensive way they have. The 
have added a C-more Micro that is even less money and has different 
backlight colors available via programming so you can turn the screen 
background red say for an error condition. It comes in a 3 inch as well as 
a 6 inch in touch screen and also a non-touch in the 3 inch. I just 
installed one last week that is in direct sunlight when the panel is opened 
and it was still readable. I am not sure how well the original C-more would 
show up in the light. Also the original 6 through 15 inch models are 
actually running a form of Windows CE.

The newer C-more Micro also has a free download for the programming software 
but I do find it a bit more cumbersome to program than the original.

I plan on installing one of these systems into my Tropica to take the place 
of the original card cage that I don't have. I had planned on the C-More 6 
inch touch screen color model until I found out how well the C-More Micro 
model worked in the light.

Another benefit of the Automation Direct equipment is that a lot of it is 
available with a 12 volt power supply requirement and many of the other 
brands start at 24 volts.

Respectfully,
John

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[email protected]>
To: "Chris Stephens" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV PC ideas


> The AutomationDirect PLCs and touch screens are extremely easy to program
> for. They can be a bit frustrating if you're used to more advanced 
> languages
> like C and are trying to do more advanced stuff, but they'd work great as 
> a
> monitor and logic controller for EVs. They could also measure temperatures
> (with an add-on module) and control relays for stuff like pre-charge, fan
> control, and other relay load control.
>
> The touch screen is just a dumb interface to the PLC's memory; the touch
> screen programming is basically a drag-and-drop GUI editor with some extra
> features. The PLC is programmed with ladder logic, which is a 
> semi-graphical
> programming language that's meant to represent relays being wired 
> together.
> It also supports math, counters, and stuff as little blocks of a 
> basic-like
> language.
>
> They're somewhat pricey, though. Here's the costs:
> Touchscreen: $400 for 6 inch greyscale, $600 for 6 inch color, more for
> bigger screens
> PLC: $240 for DirectLogic 06 with 20 DC inputs and 16 relay outputs
> Analog inputs: $140 for 8 16-bit 5/10V analog inputs (PLC holds up to 4
> modules, lots of different modules available)
> Cable between PLC and touchscreen: $20
>
> There's also a bunch of one-time costs to be able to program it. The 
> C-More
> programming software is $130, and the PLC programming software is $400
> (there's a free version for small programs under 100 words). The cable to
> program the PLC costs $10, and the touch screen is programmed by a 
> standard
> USB cable.
>
> Personally, my ideal car computer would be an embedded Linux system. I'd
> enjoy doing the coding in C, though.
>
> -Morgan
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Chris Stephens <[email protected]> 


> > wrote:
> >
> >> I hear ya, I also found the WinCon 8000 that ran Windows CE.
> >> http://www.microdigit.hu/das/wincon/wincon-8000.htm
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I totally agree with you guys. I use the Automation Direct PLCs with 
my industrial air pollution control systems. I intend to use one with 
my conversion. It would be nice to figure out a way to make it read 
the info from the zilla hairball. Do you think that's possible?




> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Actually as industrial PLCs go, the Automation Direct equipment is
> > fairly
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm thinking about getting a carputer with the Intel Atom dual processor 
mini ITX board. The whole affair hardware wise is around $350, chassis, 
processor board, hard drive, power supply, cd rom. You can get a 
Lilliput 7" car touchscreen monitor for around $250 and then a copy of 
windows xp pro or linux. The processor board has 6 accessable USB 2.0 
ports, plus serial and parallel and PS2 keyboard and mouse ports. Plug 
in your PackTrakr and start programming in C with Bloodshed free 
compiler or the windows developers suite. Plug in a USB wifi and 
connect to your home wireless network from the graage. Run a VNC host 
on the carputer and a client on your laptop and you can see the carputer 
desktop from you laptop. You can also get inexpensive RS485 isolated 
industrial interfaces and a USB to RS485 interface. Again, program 
away, even in visual basic. None of this battery oriented monitoring 
and control happens very fast. You can even use the RS485 isolated 
interfaces to control a Manzanita Micro PFC style battery charger using 
the PackTrakr input. Finally give that PFC charger a brain for other 
than flooded lead acid batteries.

Paul Wallace
'91 chevy s10 in a major battery transition.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Do you know a commercial source for such an isolation amplifier at a 
reasonable cost? Automation Direct does not sell these, do they?



> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> 
> >>> I have been thinking along the same lines except less DIY. Just buy
> >>> a 12V modular PLC from Automation Direct with analog input modules
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you're daring, you could even take this a step farther. With the right
hardware/software, I'm sure you could incorporate a back-up camera, or even
radar to the front or back of the car for an "intelligent cruise control" if
your willing to give a PC control of brake/throttle. Of course you would
keep your throttle/brake controls, but you could achieve some safely or
efficiency features found on high-end Lexus's. Just a thought. Anyone
that's seen "RoboCars" on the Science Channel could get inspired.



> Chris Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm more of a PC sort of guy and the PLC 
stuff is new to me. PLC looks like a good idea, but I think I could do it 
better and for less with more options using a car pc and nice touch screen.
I'm thinking about controlling almost everything in the truck as well as 
using it instead of gauges. I've got to wire it anyway, why not? Just wire 
the lights for example to a relay rather than a switch.

So.. with that in mind I found that both of the most popular front ends on 
mp3car.com (Roadrunner & Media Engine) both have a Phidgets plug in. I think 
I could brush up on my VB and create a speedo using something like the 
WTDIN-M from http://www.weedtech.com/. I may need help with the math on 
building a "fuel gauge" out of a database dump from the individual battery 
monitors.

Just some ideas. I'm closing in on what may be considered off topic so I'll 
take this to the mp3car forums. I haven't posted yet, I'll just lurk for a 
while but look for user "stub" if you are interested.

Stub






> Paul Wallace wrote:
> > I'm thinking about getting a carputer with the Intel Atom dual
> > processor mini ITX board. The whole affair hardware wise is around
> > $350, chassis, processor board, hard drive, power supply, cd rom.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here is a type of can bus system that can be modified to put out multiple 
types of info (speed, RPM, etc.) all in a nice little package. I have to do 
somemore research, but there are numerous systems like this already out 
that may be adapted for EV use. I have some of this type equipment now (my 
regular job) that I'm going to try to intergrate into my EV.

http://www.dickeyjohn.com/products/agriculture/material-application/intelliag/

Subject: [EVDL] EV PC ideas


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I also sell these nifty back up cameras now......

http://www.aiproducts-cp.com/itemlist.htm?CategorySeq=S&SelcBrand=MS&SelcMachn=(Undefined)&SelcModel=SEVERAL&SelcSectn=CPRD&SelcSubsc=CPRD14

Josh and Jen

www.jcsevparts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Kruger" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV PC ideas


> If you're daring, you could even take this a step farther. With the right
> hardware/software, I'm sure you could incorporate a back-up camera, 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Brandon Kruger wrote:
> > If you're daring, you could even take this a step farther. With the right
> > hardware/software, I'm sure you could incorporate a back-up camera, or even
> > radar to the front or back of the car for an "intelligent cruise control" if
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I was thinking about possibly using a relay per battery as I think I 
remember Lee Hart describing a year or two ago to switch from one to the 
next instead of a whole slew of analog cards. AD sells some small relays 
with sockets or possibly some isolated relay output cards if I move up to 
the 205 series.

I think I remember the circuit as being a sort of cascade style using a form 
C contact which made it keep the isolation from one battery to another. 
Then a simple drum sequencer instruction or a small amount of ladder code 
could switch from each battery to the next and keep poking the analog values 
into memory locations. I think a 5 or 10 second step would get to the 
batteries often enough to keep up with them. The PLC could also do the 
battery balancer logic as well. That may be where I am remembering the 
cascaded relay circuit from.

I know the C-more can do an analog gauge or bar gauge based on a value in a 
memory location. A photo switch input from the rear drive and another from 
the motor tail shaft into the high speed counter inputs can keep a 
speedometer and tachometer updated often enough for the display. The 
display gauges can even change color based on the value as well as display a 
digital value.

I may be like the fellow with a hammer where every problem looks like a 
nail, but I have the bits and pieces and know I can make the PLC and touch 
screen do a pretty clean dash for my car.

respectfully,
John
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV PC ideas


> Do you know a commercial source for such an isolation amplifier at a
> reasonable cost? Automation Direct does not sell these, do they?
>
>


> Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> >
> >>>> I have been thinking along the same lines except less DIY. Just buy
> >>>> a 12V modular PLC from Automation Direct with analog input modules
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > I was thinking about possibly using a relay per battery as I think I
> > remember Lee Hart describing a year or two ago to switch from one to
> > the next instead of a whole slew of analog cards.
> ...


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