# powerglide transmission modification?



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

2 posts: mizlplix's 1930 ford and "reasons for using a automatic transmission in an EV"


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

RET said:


> Any information on this subject would be greatly appreciated


I would suggest you look up a shop that does transmissions for race cars. Discuss what you want with them.

A basic junkyard powerglide can still be found if you really look (they are getting rare) for under $150.00. From that point get one of the powerglide books that are out there, see amazon. Most of them cover overhaul and performance 

To answer your question about bell housings, the bell housing of the standard powerglide is generally sawn off with a sawsall then a replacement explosion proof bell housing for the engine type is bolted on. They also make new cases without bellhousings

Almost every part of a powerglide is reproduced in the aftermarket to considerably stronger specifications. It is all racing stuff so it is very pricey. But using that racing stuff you can build a glide that could handle 2000 horsepower.

Good luck,
Jim


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Jimdear2 said:


> But using that racing stuff you can build a glide that could handle 2000 horsepower.
> 
> Good luck,
> Jim


Link? 

10char


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

plenty of sources on google...one example.

http://www.atiracing.com/products/trans/pg/superglide1.htm


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

somanywelps,

Jegs, Summit, TCI and Google 

Just look and learn, it's out there.

Jim


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

palmer_md said:


> plenty of sources on google...one example.
> 
> http://www.atiracing.com/products/trans/pg/superglide1.htm


I note they don't have torque ratings... semi important with electrics


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

There Is tons of information out there . I have been digging around .They don't specify 
torque ratings but I will inquire about that. The ratings have to be decent if they are building transmissions that can handle 2k HP.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

somanywelps said:


> I note they don't have torque ratings... semi important with electrics


you can ballpark the rating by knowing that 

torque = hp x 5252 / rpm

2000 x 5252 / rpm

you just fill in some range of rpm values that you guess they can run with a gasoline engine and you get the torque "guestimate".

if it has a 1000rpm rating its 10,000 ft-lb rating
if it has a 7000rpm rating its a 1500 ft-lb rating.


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

palmer_md said:


> you can ballpark the rating by knowing that
> 
> torque = hp x 5252 / rpm
> 
> ...


Thanks This will be useful.


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## nucleus (May 18, 2012)

*Kansas EV*

Dwayne from Kansas EV returned my call today. 

I really like their transmission. He said that once you start turning the motor it has full pressure after 3-4 revolutions. The electric pump just keeps it primed to about 50 PSI and runs very little. 

A larger Warp motor bolts right on. Two forward speeds, reverse and neutral manually controlled. You can shift under full power. They have shortened it so the transmission itself is only a foot long. 

I think this is a better solution for a street car than a racing transmission because the straight cut gears in the racing stuff are ridiculously loud.


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Did he say anything about power ratings?


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## nucleus (May 18, 2012)

somanywelps said:


> Did he say anything about power ratings?


I forgot to ask him that, but automatics generally handle a lot more power than manuals due to their planetary gear sets with lots of teeth meshing. 

Pickup trucks with stick shift have lower tow ratings vs. the automatic version.

Nucleus


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

*Re: Kansas EV*



nucleus said:


> Dwayne from Kansas EV returned my call today.
> 
> I really like their transmission. He said that once you start turning the motor it has full pressure after 3-4 revolutions. The electric pump just keeps it primed to about 50 PSI and runs very little.
> 
> ...


I sent them an email and never got it returned ??? 

I really wonder how loud a racing transmission is , never got to hear one especially without a roaring
engine running it .

Kansas EV's setup does look sweet , I am just wondering if I could build a similar setup out of my own powerglide .


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## nucleus (May 18, 2012)

*Re: Kansas EV*



RET said:


> I sent them an email and never got it returned ???


Sounds like it is best to call these guys...



RET said:


> I really wonder how loud a racing transmission is , never got to hear one especially without a roaring
> engine running it .
> 
> Kansas EV's setup does look sweet , I am just wondering if I could build a similar setup out of my own powerglide .


Sure you can. After you get the front end shortened, the back end shortened, and machine the adaptor, I'm not sure you will save any money. If length doesn't matter to you then you might be able to save some money.

Nucleus


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

*Re: Kansas EV*



nucleus said:


> Dwayne from Kansas EV returned my call today.
> 
> I really like their transmission. He said that once you start turning the motor it has full pressure after 3-4 revolutions. The electric pump just keeps it primed to about 50 PSI and runs very little.
> 
> ...


I talked to the people at TCI that build racing transmissions . The transmissions are not loud . These are the converterless 2 speed power glides and may be a good setup for EV needs . I am also looking at Gearvendors setups suggested by Rebirth EV . This might also be a solution .


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

before you decide on what style trans, also look at what adapter/bell housing you'll need along with mounting options. Gear vendors will need mods, a powerslush will come in any flavor motor you can think of.

Not pushing either, just making a comment. I like the kansas EV solution, but I'm a manual fanatic


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

piotrsko said:


> before you decide on what style trans, also look at what adapter/bell housing you'll need along with mounting options. Gear vendors will need mods, a powerslush will come in any flavor motor you can think of.
> 
> Not pushing either, just making a comment. I like the kansas EV solution, but I'm a manual fanatic


Thanks , I am really gathering information at the time . I have many other things to do before I start buying materials for the conversion . But my main goal is to learn some things along the way , the reason I am talking to all the suppliers and hear on the forum they are all the best sources of information and I appreciate everybody giving their input . I do like the Kansas EV solution too, it is by far the 
easiest adaptable transmission to a motor .


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Been drag, oval and street rodding power slides all my life. 

2000hp requires an aftermarket case, you don't. 
The shorty rear mod requires a shorty bearing plate and a shorty output shaft.
The bell cuts off at the front pump surface. Use a saws all and sander to dress it.
New bell/ adapter uses the front pump bolts, just longer ones.
There is a push start adapter we used to use that manually engaged the low band. That could be used to engage low gear. Then oil pressure that engages the high clutches could pull it out of engagement if set up properly. No electric pump needed...

Another project. For another day.....

Miz


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

mizlplix said:


> Been drag, oval and street rodding power slides all my life.
> 
> 2000hp requires an aftermarket case, you don't.
> The shorty rear mod requires a shorty bearing plate and a shorty output shaft.
> ...


Thanks for the info . I knew it could be done . and you just showed that to me. Could you run a manual valve body and shift between low and high 
gears or is that what you are saying above ?


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

yes,either manual or automatic shifting.


























Like this.....Manual shift, direct coupled. External pump for low/reverse engagement.

Miz


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## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

I talked with Dewayne also. Really thoughtful guy.
That unit he did was designed to be really short. The whole thing with motor is the same length as the powerglide was originally.

If you ask him to not modify the tailshaft and shorten the driveaxle and put custom seals etc... for that back half modification, I will bet he might do it for less.

Also, I mentioned to him that GearVendors makes a powerglide adpater for powerglide and you can have awesome torque at low speed but then switch on the overdrive and have some power for passing on the highway too.

I have a 1500HP straight cut powerglide for sale if anyone needs one.

Metric


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Whats different about the EVglide vs a normal powerglide (other than the AUX pump)?


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## eBEEMER (May 3, 2012)

*Powerglide contact*

I am a complete newbie, but here to learn. The KansasEV powerglide looks to be an excellent piece of kit for the sort of conversion I have underway.
However, it has been impossible to get them to respond to emails through their web site, and no-one returns my calls. Is there any other way of contacting them?


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## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

*Re: Powerglide contact*



eBEEMER said:


> I am a complete newbie, but here to learn. The KansasEV powerglide looks to be an excellent piece of kit for the sort of conversion I have underway.
> However, it has been impossible to get them to respond to emails through their web site, and no-one returns my calls. Is there any other way of contacting them?


I got him no problem. 620-241-0060


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Powerglides 101:

Powerglides first were used in the 1950's. They were on the 1953 Corvette and until 1962 were made of CAST IRON. *AVOID THEM*.

The 1963 model year introduced the aluminum powerglide. Up until 1965, they had a front AND a rear pump. You could coast or push start them.

1965 found them to have a front pump only. A rear one not really being needed, The two pump model had two case vents, one front one rear, both on right sides.

All aluminm power glides are suitable for EV use. 


There are many modifications you can do to them: 

Like a manual valve body (That gets rid of the vacuum modulator and the governor). 

A direct drive coupler (eliminates the torque converter, but needs an external pump to engage the first gear.) 

A shorty conversion eliminating the rear cone. (It requires a shorty outputshaft/planetary shell unit as well as the shorty seal plate. It can be a bushing or a roller bearing type.)

Racing clutch plates and band are a cheap add on.

Eliminating the bell housing is a "backyard" mod done with a sabre saw and sander. 

A deep oil pan is nice if you can afford it.

A Hurst "Quarterstick" is the best shifter I have found.

The driveshaft u-joint size is adaptable to FORD or almost anything.

The oil cooler ports can be simply plugged. No flow is necessary. This transmission runs about 160 Deg. F. without a converter.


They are still available locally for about $150-up on Craigslist.

Mine works fine. It needs a rebuild, but I knew that when I decided to put it in. A spare is on the way and I will remedy that soon.

NOTE: Contrary to what you hear or read, An automatic without the converter turns easily and has positive engagement. Planetary gears actually have LESS drag than regular manual shift transmissions.

Miz


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

That's good info Miz . Are you running direct drive ( converter-less)on your roadster ? If so, how do you add an external pump or are there kits that can be bought ?

Thanks


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Direct drive, using a standard late Chevy coupler & adapter from CanEV AND a direct drive shaft from Speedway Motors. Get the flange for the "Crate Motor", there are two (the other one fits the older 350 V8 style engine).

There is no "kit" for any of this stuff...LOL. It is way out in left field.

I use a SUREFLOW 8030-813-239 Pump. You can actually use anything of 120PSI and at least 4 GPM or larger.








The suction is plumbed into the pan at the drilled out plug hole shown and the pressure side goes to the pressure test port on the right side servo piston cover. (black metal cover in top pic). At the small plug.


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## eBEEMER (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Powerglide contact*



John Metric said:


> I got him no problem. 620-241-0060


 

Thanks for your help. I'll keep trying


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

You will find their transmission is pricey....

Most will buy a TCI Oval transmission from someone like 
Jeg's :http://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/742011/10002/-1?parentProductId=

A pump: SUREFLOW 8030-813-239

It is both faster and cheaper.

ANd never look back....

Miz


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Just a quick question that I haven't seen asked yet {at least here}. Do you still have a parking pawl in a modified powerglide so that would work like a typical 'glide equipped ICE mobile when parked?

I like the idea of retaining the parking pawl, even though years of driving USAF vehicles has engrained the notion of using the park brake _every time a vehicle is parked before you exit the vehicle._


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## RET (Jan 3, 2012)

mizlplix said:


> You will find their transmission is pricey....
> 
> Most will buy a TCI Oval transmission from someone like
> Jeg's :http://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/742011/10002/-1?parentProductId=
> ...


Thanks mizlplix it looks like a breeze , I really think this is the way I will go with my conversion , it's simple , inexpensive and a tough trans.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Mine was built by TCI originally and yes it has a parking pawl


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

do you think that 1000$ one form jegs will work the way it is with a Warp11hv? would it need any additional modification besides an adapter to mate the trans and motor?


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

You will need to put the gear back on the output shaft, and the "barrel" back in the hole in the side so the speedometer will work.

Other than that, The external pump for precharge. It will shut off when the trans internal pump starts working.

Yes, it works well, Feels positive and it is easy to literally inch forwards if you are near something.

Or stomp on it and hang on. The shift up or down is instant. No lags.

My powerglide weighs less than the T-5 5speed I took out.

Miz


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Miz, I see that a 2.18 planetary is available for the PG over the more usual 1.82, but they are pricey.

Swapping that in should yield lower RPMs, and allow a 5.14 R&P for the same performance in your case, but with the lower motor speeds, especially in that 30-45 MPH daily drive range, it could result in a nearly always one speed (light) car with a 4.71 or even 4.30 rear, with great highway driveability (lower noise, better motor torque curve) in top gear at typical highway speeds.

Other than the cost of the 2.18 planetary, is there any reason not do do that?

TomA


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Amperage. 

The AC50 runs cheaper at 6500 than 3500 (at the same vehicle speed)

It is the reverse of what an ICE does. (They need to be geared down to a lower speed.)

*-I am running with no wind, few stops and no hills or grades.

So, it would be no real advantage to me to invest in a lower first gear. 

If that were so, I would have kept the T-5 5 speed that was in the car. I would have only used two gears there, in my local. BUT, If I lived in hilly terrain, the close together ratios might have been of some use.

Miz


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

EXAMPLE: My old Jet Electrica liked 3200 RPM, third gear to cruise in. If I up shifted to fourth it lowered the motor RPM's, BUT it raised the motor AMP draw.
So, I went back to third gear and 3,200 RPM's. 

If you use a hand held electric grinder rated at 10 amps and pressed hard to lower it to half speed, you can pop the circuit breaker from over amping the circuit. A too of a high gear in an EV is the same thing. Let the motor run in it's comfy spot. It will be cooler, less amp draw and easier on equipment.

Miz


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## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

OK, I get it, that only works when the car is very light with a small cross-sectional area, and you don't need torque to keep it moving. I wasn't talking about your car specifically, but what to do with the motor/gearbox combination you have if it was under considerably more load.

The same AC50/PG RWD drivetrain in a larger 3000lb car (HPEVS's max rating for the motor, and a typical FE/RWD build) is going to run out of torque long before 6500RPM, especially at 130V, so I was thinking the way to get the motor back into its powerband on the highway in a heavier car is a taller rear end gear ratio, and then get the lower gear performance back (and the amperage back down) by widening the two ratios in the glide by swapping from a 1.82 low to a 2.18 low.

I'm asking because I want to know, not to be a PITA. Do you think you would have any pedal left over 4000RPM if you had a car that weighed double and had to push more air around than yours does? I'm thinking that the primary issue with a bigger car would be trying to keep as much as possible of the AC50's 130ft/lb max torque available at the speeds you'd need it in with each gear, like from 5-35mph in low and 25-60 in high. Spreading the ratios in the PG and switching to a taller rear axle ratio does that. That's what I was trying to ask, anyway...

It seems from what you're saying that so long as the motor has enough torque to keep the car moving, a higher steady rpm is generally better. I get that, but the AC 50 doesn't have much torque, and it falls away quickly like every other electric motor north of 3500rpm without high voltage to overcome the BEMF, and the Curtis 1238 can't deliver high voltage. So, unless the car is really light, the motor is done making good power by 4000, and from there to the 6500 cruising RPM would would be a long wait in a heavier EV. I was actually thinking about how to get the AC50's powerband spread wider across the two available 'glide ratios, and brought up into average road speeds, in order to keep the motor from going gutless in a heavier car below highway speeds. Maybe getting up to cruise doesn't take as much torque as I thought.

Am I making any sense?


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Hi, Tom:

Yes, you are clear in your thoughts. 

Vehicles in general all go by the same principles. A class "A" heavy-haul truck has an 18 speed transmission for a reason-to match the motors torque band to the load and the hill to get the top speed in every situation.

SO, in the case of a heavier car, a powerglide with an AC50 is not a good choice, even with a different rear gear or low gear. With only two gears available, you would have sucky over all performance.

One way to fix this is to have a bigger motor for the load.

Another way to fix this is to have more and even spaced- gears in the transmission.

Still another way is to lose the extra weight.

SO, your car of 3,500+ lbs , the weight is fixed, the motor is wimpy and your transmission needs more gears for it to drive what I call "Normally".

Back to AC50 torque curve. Forget the torque chart. In a car of 2500# the motor accelerates nicely right up to 7000 RPMs and only then gets mushy and slows down when reaching for the 8000 mark. The chart is a little deceiving. 

I have "seat of the pants" experience with 3000#-4000# cars, I extrapolate the AC50/glide to be a lot slower but will stay up with slower traffic. (VW beetles and loaded tractor rigs) But not pleasant. 

If I were building one, I would use a T-5 5 speed transmission with an AC50, OR a direct driven 4 speed automatic as others have done.

OR go to a DC system with at least 3 gears, but you still have that car weight problem to deal with.

To build a nice EV, you need to observe 3 things: Lowest weight, rock hard tires, largest battery pack you can afford and lastly, transmission gearing to adapt it to the terrain where you live. 

Miz


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