# [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok I'm game, I always thought you didn't want to do it because the concrete
kept the bottom side of the battery colder then the top side of the battery.
I'll sit here and wait and see what the experts have to say with you but I
don't think it's myth.

Mark Grasser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mark Hanson
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters


Hi,

Has mythbusters done a battery on the concrete floor test? I had trouble
trying to email them on their website but that would be a *good* one to do.
I still get that comment from people who should know better when they see my
batteries laying on my concrete floor, like the neighbor said, "oh no,
you'll ground out your batteries". I said "don't worry there only $2800
worth of Ni-Cads". He just shook his head.

Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Back in the early days, we use wood cases to enclose the cells of the 
batteries. As the battery ages, the wood would get saturated with acid and 
the cells would self discharge.

Normally the shortest path from cell to cell is from the battery cap to the 
next cap. In a plastic case battery, it is easy to clean off this 
conductive path, but with wood, the acid embedded deep into the wood which 
acted like a conductive path which was hard to clean.

In the wood surfaces, the conductive path was not only across the top but 
down the sides and across the bottom. This is how some of the end cells 
conducted to each other. Down the sides, across the bottom and up the other 
sides.

Placing the battery on a concrete surface, only deteriorate the concrete, 
which absorbed the acid, which increase the conductive path across the 
bottom from cell to cell.

So the conclusion when some one saw the concrete was eaten out with the 
battery acid and the battery was discharge, they assume that the concrete it 
self discharge the battery, but what it only did was increase the conductive 
path from cell to cell in another direction.

It was very common to set batteries on a sand tray that was suspended off 
the floor or wood stand. These batteries did not have any tops on them, so 
it was common for the electrolyte to weep down the sides.

Later when they started to seal the tops on a glass type cell, then the sand 
trays would not be required.

This battery data is from my Standard Handbook of Electrical Systems.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Grasser" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters


> Ok I'm game, I always thought you didn't want to do it because the 
> concrete
> kept the bottom side of the battery colder then the top side of the 
> battery.
> I'll sit here and wait and see what the experts have to say with you but I
> don't think it's myth.
>
> Mark Grasser
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:03 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Has mythbusters done a battery on the concrete floor test? I had trouble
> trying to email them on their website but that would be a *good* one to 
> do.
> I still get that comment from people who should know better when they see 
> my
> batteries laying on my concrete floor, like the neighbor said, "oh no,
> you'll ground out your batteries". I said "don't worry there only $2800
> worth of Ni-Cads". He just shook his head.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger.
> http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh
> _messenger_052008
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has mythbusters done a battery on the concrete floor
> test? 
Yes they have...results BUSTED

Myth began in old days when cases were rubber or wood
and allowed electrolite to leak. no porblem wirh
newer plastic cased batts if kept clean

don't know about ni-cads but ass-u-me they would be ok
too??

I said "don't
> worry there only $2800
> worth of Ni-Cads". He just shook his head.
> 
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
_________________________________________________________________
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> Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh
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> 



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow, well I guess this is what is great about this list. I had to go look.
This below from the Trojan web site. Don't know how it applies to Nicads
though.

Storing a battery on concrete will discharge it quicker- Long ago, when
battery cases were made out of natural rubber, this was true. Now, however,
battery cases are made of polypropylene or other modern materials that allow
a battery to be stored anywhere. A battery's rate of discharge is affected
by its construction, its age, and the ambient temperature. The main issue
with storing on concrete is that if the battery leaks, the concrete will be
damaged.

Mark Grasser



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:54 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters

Back in the early days, we use wood cases to enclose the cells of the 
batteries. As the battery ages, the wood would get saturated with acid and 
the cells would self discharge.

Normally the shortest path from cell to cell is from the battery cap to the 
next cap. In a plastic case battery, it is easy to clean off this 
conductive path, but with wood, the acid embedded deep into the wood which 
acted like a conductive path which was hard to clean.

In the wood surfaces, the conductive path was not only across the top but 
down the sides and across the bottom. This is how some of the end cells 
conducted to each other. Down the sides, across the bottom and up the other

sides.

Placing the battery on a concrete surface, only deteriorate the concrete, 
which absorbed the acid, which increase the conductive path across the 
bottom from cell to cell.

So the conclusion when some one saw the concrete was eaten out with the 
battery acid and the battery was discharge, they assume that the concrete it

self discharge the battery, but what it only did was increase the conductive

path from cell to cell in another direction.

It was very common to set batteries on a sand tray that was suspended off 
the floor or wood stand. These batteries did not have any tops on them, so 
it was common for the electrolyte to weep down the sides.

Later when they started to seal the tops on a glass type cell, then the sand

trays would not be required.

This battery data is from my Standard Handbook of Electrical Systems.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Grasser" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters


> Ok I'm game, I always thought you didn't want to do it because the 
> concrete
> kept the bottom side of the battery colder then the top side of the 
> battery.
> I'll sit here and wait and see what the experts have to say with you but I
> don't think it's myth.
>
> Mark Grasser
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf
> Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:03 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Battery on Concrete, Mythbusters
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Has mythbusters done a battery on the concrete floor test? I had trouble
> trying to email them on their website but that would be a *good* one to 
> do.
> I still get that comment from people who should know better when they see 
> my
> batteries laying on my concrete floor, like the neighbor said, "oh no,
> you'll ground out your batteries". I said "don't worry there only $2800
> worth of Ni-Cads". He just shook his head.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh
> _messenger_052008
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This has been discussed in the past on the EVDL. Look in the old archive at 


http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/

Search terms :

battery "concrete floor"

Hope this helps.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

the way I understand it in days gone by moisture in the concrete would complete a circuit through the battery case and cause the battery to discharge but todays batteries have much better case materials that do not leak voltage so easily
> 
> Ok I'm game, I always thought you didn't want to do it because the concrete
> kept the bottom side of the battery colder then the top side of the battery.
> I'll sit here and wait and see what the experts have to say with you but I
> don't think it's myth.
> 
> Mark Grasser
> 
>

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One thing that isn't a myth though is that the battery acid will eat 
through the concrete.

I left an old 8-volt flooded battery on the garage floor for about 4 
months and when I moved it the top surface of the concrete was eaten 
away. Apparently, the battery had a small leak, enough for it to 
cause damage to the floor. So now I routinely put old and new 
batteries on some sort of barrier so it doesn't sit directly on the 
floor.

Chip




> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:55:08 +0000
> ...


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