# Fiat 500 motor choice



## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

Howdy,

Something that light could easily use an AC50 or an AC35 without any trouble. If you don't want to bother with the transmission, talk to the factory (HPEVS) and get the Grazziano transaxle as well. A coworker of mine has a Kewet (smaller than your car) that just screams with the AC50 in it - she has a video on youtube showing her burn rubber with it. 

Cheers!
Peter


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> she has a video on youtube showing her burn rubber with it.



Link please. I'd love to see it.


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

onegreenev said:


> Link please. I'd love to see it.


Here ya go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP5mHNFg4yc

There are others, but this is short and to the point. 

Cheers!


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

For me DC is a good option right now and I don't really have the money right now for a 4300 dollar system and I will be able to build the controller so it really doesn't make sense for me to go with that system. I will just put my free system in and spend the rest on lithium if this motor works for this size car  Some more facts about this motor its an advanced dc and it has a some sort of rating number on it AU25001-2-95H89 whatever that means and here are the pics I took.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I'll take a quick stab at what I would look for:

A 4 pole series wound motor for low end torque
About 70-80 pounds to handle an appropriate amount of power
Around 30 commutator bars so it can handle 90+ volts


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Snakub said:


> For me DC is a good option right now..... I will just put my free system in and spend the rest on lithium


You are absolutely right about this!

Your motor seem similar than ADC A00-4009 http://evolveelectrics.com/ADC Motors.html
I think it's a bit small for your car. It will move it, but not very fastly and probably not over a hill. And it will overheat fast after few miles.
Do you have spec on the name plate?
What kind of performance do you expect (top speed, acceleration time)?


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

There's no info really on the motor name plate its all scratched off. I would like 60 mph and at least some performance up a hill like 40 mph and acceleration doesn't matter too much to me. If it can't do this what do you think would be a more appropriate motor that would fit in this small engine bay?


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

Snakub said:


> For me DC is a good option right now and I don't really have the money right now for a 4300 dollar system and I will be able to build the controller so it really doesn't make sense for me to go with that system. I will just put my free system in and spend the rest on lithium if this motor works for this size car  Some more facts about this motor its an advanced dc and it has a some sort of rating number on it AU25001-2-95H89 whatever that means and here are the pics I took.


Free can get expensive. I think the 500’s curb at 1,300 pounds. The motor you show does not look promising especially if you go the extra weight of lead acid batteries. You could put an AC35 or AC50 with 96 volt 100 amp hour lithium’s for a little under ten grand.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

The 1959 fiat weighs in at about 1000 lbs with gas components I would say it weighs less than 900 stripped. With a 72 volt pack of 9 trojan 8 volt batteries weighing 63 lbs each that's 567 lb's so we'll say 1450 curb weight. So if a 140 lb warp 9 can move around a 4200 lb vehicle like my e truck why couldn't a 50 lb motor move around a vehicle nearly with nearly three times less weight??


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Snakub said:


> There's no info really on the motor name plate its all scratched off. I would like 60 mph and at least some performance up a hill like 40 mph and acceleration doesn't matter too much to me. If it can't do this what do you think would be a more appropriate motor that would fit in this small engine bay?


Hi snak,

Finally got some performance expectations from you  Even in such a small car, I suspect this motor will be marginal. It probably will get to 60 mph with 72 volts and the right gear, but won't maintain it for long until overheating sits in. You may lengthen that time with forced air cooling of the motor.

It appears to be a 6.6 inch diameter series wound traction motor from a 36 or 48 volt Clark lift truck, three wheeler I think, with dual drive motors. For that application it likely was rated at 3 to 4 hp for one hour using just the internal fan for cooling. With extra cooling and 72 volts you may push it up to the likes of a 6 to 8 hp motor.

The spline is likely an involute profile. I hope the coupler you found matches. You may want to try to gauge the hardness of the coupler to determine if it is softer than the shaft. You want it to wear first not the motor shaft. You'll need to support the coupled shaft with bearings and assemble with exact alignment and then lubricate the spline.

The motor may get you a drivable small EV but may fall short on full performance or not last a long time. But if you have a real tight budget, go for it. You'd be ahead putting any additional funds into Lithium opposed to an expensive motor at this stage 

Good luck,

major


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## GREENHORNET (Dec 25, 2012)

Hey Snakub,

I agree with major on this one but we should put this into a little better perspective. Defined goals would be good but first we need to know what we are converting originally. 

The Fiat was a steel unibody rear wheel drive vehicle that had a curb weight of 1,065lbs. It used a 479cc 2 cylinder 0.5L gas engine with specs of 17bhp or 12.1kw @ 4400rpm and 20Ft-lbs 27nm @ 2700rpm. The top speed of this guy was 53mph. With its curb weight and .5L engine it got approx 42mpg in either engine. With a little help from a buddy pushing it you might have got it up to 60 MPH  

Now that we know the original car specs than we need to know the goals for this EV conversion. For ex. EV top speed and range! so then we know if we are dealing with an EV freeway capable conversion or an EV that is only meant for surface streets! 

Usually what comes first though is the design priorities. Such as budget and time! 

From one of your previous posts it sounded like you would rather use the motor you currently have than buy a different one to save money. The extra funds you would put into a battery pack. So to me it sounds like this is a budget conversion and in this case the expectations for performance should be realistic. It will be a stretch to get it to 50mph with that motor you currently have! 

As major eluded to the vehicle will be no speed demon  however if you are only going to drive it on surface streets that you will be fine. You will be pushing the motor no doubt so you will need to make sure it stays cool. If time was not an issue I would hold out for a used series that can put out 8-10hp cont @ 72V-96V. That would give you the ability to go the original speed of the car and possibly more depending on your controller and battery selection. 

You can save money with the DIY DC controller which is good. I think you mentioned that also in the thread so batteries as always will be the big ticket item here. Just depends on how much weight you want to save and how much room you have for the batteries. In addition to design budget and priorities of course. 

A general rule of thumb is for every thousand pounds of loaded vehicle weight figure around 6-8hp continuous on the flats. Now if you want to go freeway speeds you need more, if you need to go over hills you need more etc.. Its generally ok to have an overpowered motor but is not generally a good idea to have an undersized one cuz of the challenges of keeping it cool are tougher and the risk of blowing it up go way up. 

I think it would be cool to keep the specs similar if possible. If you don't mind it going 35mph to 45mph on surface streets than move forward with the build. Who knows your little motor might be just perfect you all ready have it so why not use it. The worst thing that could happen is you blow it up but its free so why not see what it can do if money savings is the top priority! 

Either way its a win win bro you are taking one more gas guzzler and turning it into something that does not require you to stop by the gas station and fill up or requires you to get DMV air quality testing and can possibly charge up solely by clean energy if you have some PV arrays! 

Best of luck to you Snakub on your build,

GreenHornet


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks a lot for your reply major I have been really wanting to know about where this motor came from. With all the problems that you have suggested I now think that this motors destined for a dual motor go kart project of mine. But you don't think that the coupler I had planned from surplus center would work? Any suggestion for a series motor that would fit in the engine bay of the 500?


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## GREENHORNET (Dec 25, 2012)

One other option you may think about that would definitely work is a PMAC motor. I am just throwing this out as space is a big deal in a small Fiat 500. You could also dual motor these on the cheap for great performance out of a small fiat 500. Fitting 2 of these motors would be a piece of cake. 

The ME0913 would do the trick on a car this size. The motor has a good weight to power ratio at 35lbs and 12kw/16HP continuous @ 96V. They can be purchased new for under $700.00 if you look around and used you can pick them up pretty cheap. So a dual motor setup could feasably be done for under $1000 used with this option. That would give you a compact 75lb motor combo that could put out 24kw/32HP cont and peak out at 60kw/80HP at 96V  They are Brushless designed so no maintenance on these boys ever. Use a small tranny on them in your conversion and you would be good to go. You would also most likely have superior performance capability than the original ICE version had. 

The controllers suited for these guys would be a Sevcon Gen4 not sure for pricing on these guys but I would estimate them at around $1000 or under model depending. The only drawback to going dual motor on these is you would need 2 controllers they do not play nicely with a single controller configuration. So added controller cost would be needed. However you may be able to find some good used controllers or check around for any DIY ones this is always an option. 

Specs: http://www.motenergy.com/me0913.html


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