# [EVDL] Logisystems pot box



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Steve Powers wrote:
> > I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest rev) on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a blown controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems pot box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis 1231 in the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until at least 50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very poor performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the Curtis 1231 and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to about 4.6k. The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get full power.
> 
> The only trouble I had with my Logisystem controllers with Logisystem
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, you have to take into account that the controller and motor work together as part of a system, so my own experience may not exactly match what you are dealing with. With my motor, a 6.7 inch ADC and controller a 120v 1000amp Logisystem (running on 108v pack of Nicads) I am very satisfied. I am using a PB-6 potbox. I have great throttle control, full power, and no jerky starts, and have had the setup on the road for over two years. I drive it almost every day.



When I first got my controller I spent a couple of hours tweaking the pot boxes which control the throttle ramp and current settings on the controller. I would make a small change, drive the truck on a short circuit which included several starts and stops as well as some higher speed runs. In the end, I think I ended up with the current turned up to max and the throttle ramp set in a manner which adequately smoothed out the starts. Of course, I also have a 4 speed manual transmission and retained the clutch, but I can take off in any gear with or without the clutch. Reverse I always use the clutch, without it is not smooth at all, even dangerous. First gear without the clutch can be a little jerky if I am trying to creep as it is hard to keep my foot even enough, but it's just fine for normal acceleration and many times I do not use first gear anyway.



The adjustable throttle ramp is a nice feature, but to be honest, the best way to smooth out a jerky start is to use the clutch and accelerate like you do with an ICE.



damon

> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:48:43 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest rev) on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a blown controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems pot box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis 1231 in the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until at least 50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very poor performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the Curtis 1231 and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to about 4.6k. The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get full power.
> 
> So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full throttle that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to even budge is completely ridiculous.
> 
> What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are decent and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do to make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me full throttle.
> 
> I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it. So, I have to find a way to make it work.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm having the same problem with the Mustang (Azure Dynamics AC55 with a 
PB-8 potbox). I've tried several things, with no success thus far. I've been 
talking to Azure tech support about programming slower ramp times, but they 
aren't being very helpful. It jitterbugs unless you are really careful on 
the throttle, forward or reverse. I want to try a stronger shorter spring 
next - but if anyone has a suggestion to try, I'm all ears.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Powers" <[email protected]>
To: "ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box


>I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest rev) 
>on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a blown 
>controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems pot 
>box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis 1231 in 
>the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until at least 
>50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very poor 
>performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the Curtis 1231 
>and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to about 4.6k. 
>The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get full power.
>
> So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full throttle 
> that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to even budge 
> is completely ridiculous.
>
> What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are decent 
> and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do to 
> make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me full 
> throttle.
>
> I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it. So, 
> I have to find a way to make it work.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joe,

Can they program the potbox response?
It may be that the response has a too steep rise
over too short distance, which will easily allow you
to overshoot, unless the throttle is operated very
careful with the heel of your foot "locked" against the floor. 
I would certainly try to figure out which resistance area
is being used for most of the active output of the controller,
the 10% to 90% output area, try to find out if that is being
spread out over the potbox resistance range or that (say) only
10% difference in resistance causes 80% of output variation.

If the controller cannot be changed then it is possible to
design a combination of fixed resistors and a pot that will
utilize the pot's range better, but then you first need to
know which range the controller uses for 0 - 100% and if the
10 to 90% output of the controller is a relatively large part
of that range.
If it is not, in cases where the response of the controller is
not somewhat linear with the pot's rotation, you will need to
get the controller fixed before you can successfully use it
in combination with an accelerator control.

NOTE that a common failure mode of a pot is a crack which
causes (almost) 100% of the resistance change in a small area.
Older pots are prone to wear through the carbon layer on the
circle that the contact follows, resulting in momentary loss
of the output which is heard as a scratching sound in audio
devices when moving the pot. To give a defined output even
when contact is lost, many pots used for control purpose have
a (much) higher value external resistor between the moving 
contact and the contact representing no output. On our versions
of control where the potbox gives 0 to 5k resistance and not a
control voltage, such a safety is not easy to implement.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of joe
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 9:58 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box

I'm having the same problem with the Mustang (Azure Dynamics AC55 with a
PB-8 potbox). I've tried several things, with no success thus far. I've
been talking to Azure tech support about programming slower ramp times,
but they aren't being very helpful. It jitterbugs unless you are really
careful on the throttle, forward or reverse. I want to try a stronger
shorter spring next - but if anyone has a suggestion to try, I'm all
ears.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[email protected]>
To: "ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box


>I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest
rev) 
>on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a
blown 
>controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems pot

>box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis
1231 in 
>the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until at
least 
>50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very poor 
>performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the Curtis
1231 
>and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to about
4.6k. 
>The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get full
power.
>
> So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full
throttle 
> that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to even
budge 
> is completely ridiculous.
>
> What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are
decent 
> and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do
to 
> make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me
full 
> throttle.
>
> I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it.
So, 
> I have to find a way to make it work.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have tested the pot, and adjusted the arm a little - so now it starts at 
about 1/3rd of the arm travel. I don't know where the top end is, as I would 
have to disconnect the controller to test that. And I found out some of my 
DVM's won't test it at all, for some reason. I have 2 Fluke's (a 12 and a 
T-5), and neither one of them will show anything. The Universal brand AC/DC 
clamp-on ammeter is the only one that will show the resistance on the 
potbox.

I think that the controller should be able to be programmed for slower 
ramp-up, but haven't figured out how to change the programming yet.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box


> Joe,
>
> Can they program the potbox response?
> It may be that the response has a too steep rise
> over too short distance, which will easily allow you
> to overshoot, unless the throttle is operated very
> careful with the heel of your foot "locked" against the floor.
> I would certainly try to figure out which resistance area
> is being used for most of the active output of the controller,
> the 10% to 90% output area, try to find out if that is being
> spread out over the potbox resistance range or that (say) only
> 10% difference in resistance causes 80% of output variation.
>
> If the controller cannot be changed then it is possible to
> design a combination of fixed resistors and a pot that will
> utilize the pot's range better, but then you first need to
> know which range the controller uses for 0 - 100% and if the
> 10 to 90% output of the controller is a relatively large part
> of that range.
> If it is not, in cases where the response of the controller is
> not somewhat linear with the pot's rotation, you will need to
> get the controller fixed before you can successfully use it
> in combination with an accelerator control.
>
> NOTE that a common failure mode of a pot is a crack which
> causes (almost) 100% of the resistance change in a small area.
> Older pots are prone to wear through the carbon layer on the
> circle that the contact follows, resulting in momentary loss
> of the output which is heard as a scratching sound in audio
> devices when moving the pot. To give a defined output even
> when contact is lost, many pots used for control purpose have
> a (much) higher value external resistor between the moving
> contact and the contact representing no output. On our versions
> of control where the potbox gives 0 to 5k resistance and not a
> control voltage, such a safety is not easy to implement.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of joe
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 9:58 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
>
> I'm having the same problem with the Mustang (Azure Dynamics AC55 with a
> PB-8 potbox). I've tried several things, with no success thus far. I've
> been talking to Azure tech support about programming slower ramp times,
> but they aren't being very helpful. It jitterbugs unless you are really
> careful on the throttle, forward or reverse. I want to try a stronger
> shorter spring next - but if anyone has a suggestion to try, I'm all
> ears.
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [email protected]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Powers" <[email protected]>
> To: "ev" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 3:48 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
>
>
>>I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest
> rev)
>>on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a
> blown
>>controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems pot
>
>>box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis
> 1231 in
>>the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until at
> least
>>50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very poor
>>performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the Curtis
> 1231
>>and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to about
> 4.6k.
>>The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get full
> power.
>>
>> So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full
> throttle
>> that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to even
> budge
>> is completely ridiculous.
>>
>> What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are
> decent
>> and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do
> to
>> make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me
> full
>> throttle.
>>
>> I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it.
> So,
>> I have to find a way to make it work.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Damon,

If I listen to all that you say, then it appears
that you do have jerky starts with the controller,
but you have found a way around it (use clutch)
which could make the vehicle acceptable and you 
may be very satisfied as you express, but when I
hear you say that reversing is even dangerous if
you do not use the clutch, then I no longer wonder
why others are complaining. In an EV you do not
expect to use the clutch except to quickly change
gears, so making a jerky and dangerous controller 
work by using a clutch sounds like a bandaid to me
and the others are right to say that something is
seriously wrong with the controller and your info
confirms that you have the same problem, despite
the tweaking of pots to get a nice throttle ramp.

I am glad for you that your opinion is that you are
very happy, but I have the impression that your 
data tells a different story.

Just my opinion,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 8:13 AM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box


Well, you have to take into account that the controller and motor work
together as part of a system, so my own experience may not exactly match
what you are dealing with. With my motor, a 6.7 inch ADC and controller
a 120v 1000amp Logisystem (running on 108v pack of Nicads) I am very
satisfied. I am using a PB-6 potbox. I have great throttle control,
full power, and no jerky starts, and have had the setup on the road for
over two years. I drive it almost every day.



When I first got my controller I spent a couple of hours tweaking the
pot boxes which control the throttle ramp and current settings on the
controller. I would make a small change, drive the truck on a short
circuit which included several starts and stops as well as some higher
speed runs. In the end, I think I ended up with the current turned up
to max and the throttle ramp set in a manner which adequately smoothed
out the starts. Of course, I also have a 4 speed manual transmission
and retained the clutch, but I can take off in any gear with or without
the clutch. Reverse I always use the clutch, without it is not smooth
at all, even dangerous. First gear without the clutch can be a little
jerky if I am trying to creep as it is hard to keep my foot even enough,
but it's just fine for normal acceleration and many times I do not use
first gear anyway.



The adjustable throttle ramp is a nice feature, but to be honest, the
best way to smooth out a jerky start is to use the clutch and accelerate
like you do with an ICE.



damon

> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:48:43 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest
rev) on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a
blown controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems
pot box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis
1231 in the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until
at least 50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very
poor performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the
Curtis 1231 and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to
about 4.6k. The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get
full power.
> 
> So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full
throttle that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to
even budge is completely ridiculous.
> 
> What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are decent
and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do to
make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me
full throttle.
> 
> I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it.
So, I have to find a way to make it work.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: 
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

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ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You know, you may be right or perhaps not... The truth is that I am used to driving my truck and automatically do the things I do now. Perhaps for fun I will take it to a parking lot and see how difficult it is to start smoothly in different gears including reverse. I don't believe that mine is as bad as some others have experienced with the Logisystems controller as my motor is generally smaller than others and less torqy(sp?) I do take off all the time without using the clutch, but my habbit is to always use the clutch in reverse, and use it when in traffic if I am in a situation where I would only lightly depress the accelerator, such as creeping a few feet at a stop light.



damon

> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:47:37 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> Hi Damon,
> 
> If I listen to all that you say, then it appears
> that you do have jerky starts with the controller,
> but you have found a way around it (use clutch)
> which could make the vehicle acceptable and you 
> may be very satisfied as you express, but when I
> hear you say that reversing is even dangerous if
> you do not use the clutch, then I no longer wonder
> why others are complaining. In an EV you do not
> expect to use the clutch except to quickly change
> gears, so making a jerky and dangerous controller 
> work by using a clutch sounds like a bandaid to me
> and the others are right to say that something is
> seriously wrong with the controller and your info
> confirms that you have the same problem, despite
> the tweaking of pots to get a nice throttle ramp.
> 
> I am glad for you that your opinion is that you are
> very happy, but I have the impression that your 
> data tells a different story.
> 
> Just my opinion,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 8:13 AM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> 
> Well, you have to take into account that the controller and motor work
> together as part of a system, so my own experience may not exactly match
> what you are dealing with. With my motor, a 6.7 inch ADC and controller
> a 120v 1000amp Logisystem (running on 108v pack of Nicads) I am very
> satisfied. I am using a PB-6 potbox. I have great throttle control,
> full power, and no jerky starts, and have had the setup on the road for
> over two years. I drive it almost every day.
> 
> 
> 
> When I first got my controller I spent a couple of hours tweaking the
> pot boxes which control the throttle ramp and current settings on the
> controller. I would make a small change, drive the truck on a short
> circuit which included several starts and stops as well as some higher
> speed runs. In the end, I think I ended up with the current turned up
> to max and the throttle ramp set in a manner which adequately smoothed
> out the starts. Of course, I also have a 4 speed manual transmission
> and retained the clutch, but I can take off in any gear with or without
> the clutch. Reverse I always use the clutch, without it is not smooth
> at all, even dangerous. First gear without the clutch can be a little
> jerky if I am trying to creep as it is hard to keep my foot even enough,
> but it's just fine for normal acceleration and many times I do not use
> first gear anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> The adjustable throttle ramp is a nice feature, but to be honest, the
> best way to smooth out a jerky start is to use the clutch and accelerate
> like you do with an ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> damon
> 
> > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:48:43 -0700
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> > 
> > I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest
> rev) on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a
> blown controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems
> pot box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis
> 1231 in the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until
> at least 50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very
> poor performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the
> Curtis 1231 and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to
> about 4.6k. The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get
> full power.
> > 
> > So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full
> throttle that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to
> even budge is completely ridiculous.
> > 
> > What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are decent
> and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do to
> make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me
> full throttle.
> > 
> > I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it.
> So, I have to find a way to make it work.
> > 
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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> > 
> 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I tested this out today in my truck. 1st gear is fine for taking off without a clutch, but not for creeping slowly, and reverse is always a no go as far as I'm concerned without the clutch. In both cases it is too torqy. My other 3 forward gears are fine for any kind take off or creeping without engaging the clutch.



I'm still not sure the blame goes to the controller, but you can make up your own mind. Personally I have never considered building a DC powered EV without a clutch, which makes it a total non-issue for me.



damon



From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:40:55 +0000



You know, you may be right or perhaps not... The truth is that I am used to driving my truck and automatically do the things I do now. Perhaps for fun I will take it to a parking lot and see how difficult it is to start smoothly in different gears including reverse. I don't believe that mine is as bad as some others have experienced with the Logisystems controller as my motor is generally smaller than others and less torqy(sp?) I do take off all the time without using the clutch, but my habbit is to always use the clutch in reverse, and use it when in traffic if I am in a situation where I would only lightly depress the accelerator, such as creeping a few feet at a stop light.

damon

> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:47:37 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> Hi Damon,
> 
> If I listen to all that you say, then it appears
> that you do have jerky starts with the controller,
> but you have found a way around it (use clutch)
> which could make the vehicle acceptable and you 
> may be very satisfied as you express, but when I
> hear you say that reversing is even dangerous if
> you do not use the clutch, then I no longer wonder
> why others are complaining. In an EV you do not
> expect to use the clutch except to quickly change
> gears, so making a jerky and dangerous controller 
> work by using a clutch sounds like a bandaid to me
> and the others are right to say that something is
> seriously wrong with the controller and your info
> confirms that you have the same problem, despite
> the tweaking of pots to get a nice throttle ramp.
> 
> I am glad for you that your opinion is that you are
> very happy, but I have the impression that your 
> data tells a different story.
> 
> Just my opinion,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 8:13 AM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> 
> Well, you have to take into account that the controller and motor work
> together as part of a system, so my own experience may not exactly match
> what you are dealing with. With my motor, a 6.7 inch ADC and controller
> a 120v 1000amp Logisystem (running on 108v pack of Nicads) I am very
> satisfied. I am using a PB-6 potbox. I have great throttle control,
> full power, and no jerky starts, and have had the setup on the road for
> over two years. I drive it almost every day.
> 
> 
> 
> When I first got my controller I spent a couple of hours tweaking the
> pot boxes which control the throttle ramp and current settings on the
> controller. I would make a small change, drive the truck on a short
> circuit which included several starts and stops as well as some higher
> speed runs. In the end, I think I ended up with the current turned up
> to max and the throttle ramp set in a manner which adequately smoothed
> out the starts. Of course, I also have a 4 speed manual transmission
> and retained the clutch, but I can take off in any gear with or without
> the clutch. Reverse I always use the clutch, without it is not smooth
> at all, even dangerous. First gear without the clutch can be a little
> jerky if I am trying to creep as it is hard to keep my foot even enough,
> but it's just fine for normal acceleration and many times I do not use
> first gear anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> The adjustable throttle ramp is a nice feature, but to be honest, the
> best way to smooth out a jerky start is to use the clutch and accelerate
> like you do with an ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> damon
> 
> > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:48:43 -0700
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> > 
> > I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the latest
> rev) on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and a
> blown controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new Logisystems
> pot box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out on the Curtis
> 1231 in the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car until
> at least 50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I got very
> poor performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed using the
> Curtis 1231 and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 and goes to
> about 4.6k. The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence why I didn't get
> full power.
> > 
> > So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full
> throttle that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car to
> even budge is completely ridiculous.
> > 
> > What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are decent
> and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do to
> make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give me
> full throttle.
> > 
> > I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it.
> So, I have to find a way to make it work.
> > 
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: 
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've built and drove 2 pickup conversions now and neither one had the extra
weight of a clutch. I wouldn't consider building one with a clutch.

Takes off fine in 1st gear or any other gear. I'm using Curtis though but
just the same its all in the fine tuning of the controller with the pot box.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of damon henry
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 3:12 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box


I tested this out today in my truck. 1st gear is fine for taking off
without a clutch, but not for creeping slowly, and reverse is always a no go
as far as I'm concerned without the clutch. In both cases it is too torqy.
My other 3 forward gears are fine for any kind take off or creeping without
engaging the clutch.



I'm still not sure the blame goes to the controller, but you can make up
your own mind. Personally I have never considered building a DC powered EV
without a clutch, which makes it a total non-issue for me.



damon



From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:40:55 +0000



You know, you may be right or perhaps not... The truth is that I am used to
driving my truck and automatically do the things I do now. Perhaps for fun
I will take it to a parking lot and see how difficult it is to start
smoothly in different gears including reverse. I don't believe that mine is
as bad as some others have experienced with the Logisystems controller as my
motor is generally smaller than others and less torqy(sp?) I do take off
all the time without using the clutch, but my habbit is to always use the
clutch in reverse, and use it when in traffic if I am in a situation where I
would only lightly depress the accelerator, such as creeping a few feet at a
stop light.

damon

> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:47:37 -0700
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> Hi Damon,
> 
> If I listen to all that you say, then it appears that you do have 
> jerky starts with the controller, but you have found a way around it 
> (use clutch) which could make the vehicle acceptable and you may be 
> very satisfied as you express, but when I hear you say that reversing 
> is even dangerous if you do not use the clutch, then I no longer 
> wonder why others are complaining. In an EV you do not expect to use 
> the clutch except to quickly change gears, so making a jerky and 
> dangerous controller work by using a clutch sounds like a bandaid to 
> me and the others are right to say that something is seriously wrong 
> with the controller and your info confirms that you have the same 
> problem, despite the tweaking of pots to get a nice throttle ramp.
> 
> I am glad for you that your opinion is that you are very happy, but I 
> have the impression that your data tells a different story.
> 
> Just my opinion,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation 
> http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 8:13 AM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> 
> 
> Well, you have to take into account that the controller and motor work 
> together as part of a system, so my own experience may not exactly 
> match what you are dealing with. With my motor, a 6.7 inch ADC and 
> controller a 120v 1000amp Logisystem (running on 108v pack of Nicads) 
> I am very satisfied. I am using a PB-6 potbox. I have great throttle 
> control, full power, and no jerky starts, and have had the setup on 
> the road for over two years. I drive it almost every day.
> 
> 
> 
> When I first got my controller I spent a couple of hours tweaking the 
> pot boxes which control the throttle ramp and current settings on the 
> controller. I would make a small change, drive the truck on a short 
> circuit which included several starts and stops as well as some higher 
> speed runs. In the end, I think I ended up with the current turned up 
> to max and the throttle ramp set in a manner which adequately smoothed 
> out the starts. Of course, I also have a 4 speed manual transmission 
> and retained the clutch, but I can take off in any gear with or 
> without the clutch. Reverse I always use the clutch, without it is not 
> smooth at all, even dangerous. First gear without the clutch can be a 
> little jerky if I am trying to creep as it is hard to keep my foot 
> even enough, but it's just fine for normal acceleration and many times 
> I do not use first gear anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> The adjustable throttle ramp is a nice feature, but to be honest, the 
> best way to smooth out a jerky start is to use the clutch and 
> accelerate like you do with an ICE.
> 
> 
> 
> damon
> 
> > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:48:43 -0700
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems pot box
> > 
> > I originally tried to run my Logisystems controller (it is the 
> > latest
> rev) on a Curtis PB-6. Well, all that got me was a very jerky ride and 
> a blown controller. I got the controller rebuilt and got a new 
> Logisystems pot box. First, I installed the pot box and tried it out 
> on the Curtis
> 1231 in the car. Bad bad bad. I didn't get any movement of the car 
> until at least 50% throttle. Then, even with my foot to the floor, I 
> got very poor performance. I was getting maybe 70-80% of the speed 
> using the Curtis 1231 and PB-6. I measured the pot, and it starts at 0 
> and goes to about 4.6k. The pb-6 goes from about 0.2 to 5.2k. Hence 
> why I didn't get full power.
> > 
> > So, basically, the thing is a piece of junk. If I can't get full
> throttle that is just unacceptable. And, 50% throttle to get the car 
> to even budge is completely ridiculous.
> > 
> > What is going on here? How can people say these controllers are 
> > decent
> and work well. My experince is the exact opposite. So, what can I do 
> to make this work? I can't use the PB-6, and the logi pot won't give 
> me full throttle.
> > 
> > I'd just sell the thing and buy another Curtis, but no one wants it.
> So, I have to find a way to make it work.
> > 
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: 
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> I tested this out today in my truck. 1st gear is fine for taking off without a clutch, but not for creeping slowly, and reverse is always a no go as far as I'm concerned without the clutch. In both cases it is too torqy. My other 3 forward gears are fine for any kind take off or creeping without engaging the clutch.
>
> 
>
> I'm still not sure the blame goes to the controller, but you can make up your own mind. Personally I have never considered building a DC powered EV without a clutch, which makes it a total non-issue for me.
>
> 
>
> damon
> 
I have a zilla. king of the smooth starting controllers and I cannot use
first. The gear ratio is just too low and the vehicle jumps wildly then
stops then lurches again. I think it is because of the gear ratio. I
have no problem starting in 2nd as slow or fast as you would like,
smooth as glass. There just needs to be enough resistance. like peddling
a bike without resistance. (Heck I am even doing a bit of research on
high rpm bearings and they spec a minimum load)

Reverse is smooth, but I can really launch, the ratio would be an ideal
first gear for me :-(

PS. My clutch cannot be slipped, AT ALL. Maybe not the best choice.
Tilton triple plate metallic with no springs in disks

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