# Facing slow sales, GM temporarily idles Volt production line



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

As compared to Leaf sales.....It indicates a preference for pure electric vehicles.


----------



## AviatorBJP (Sep 17, 2011)

I am sad to hear about GMs struggles. The Leaf seems to be doing well though. In September 2011 Leaf sales were double Volt sales. February 2012 marked 20,000 Leafs sold worldwide. 

GM wasn't willing to brave the market a second time with a true EV.

Bravo Nissan. Good luck GM. That "double clutch" seems to be a double edge sword.

Dear GM Santa, if you are listening: I would like an electric car with a 40 mile range, nix the gasoline engine, and make the price less than my entire four years of college.

-Brad


----------



## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

Trying to market a $40k hybrid and claim it's (partial)electric isn't fooling anyone.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The surprising thing is that Toyota can make a plug-in prius cheaper and with far greater range than...Toyota.

Prius: $20K
Plug-in kit installed by Toyota: $10K
= Plugin prius with 36 miles EV mode.

Should be possible to DIY a new prius plugin with a 50 mile range for around $26K, or an old one for $10K


----------



## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

The Volt is too much money for my budget. I also want an EV and not a "Range Extended Electric Vehicle." OTOH, I hate to see the car become a punching bag for an election campaign. 

I saw a Volt ad on TV last night and was happy to finally see it was not the "it's the car we had to build" ad with Volt skeletons going down the assembly line in the middle of the street. I don't think they've marketed it properly yet.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> The surprising thing is that Toyota can make a plug-in prius cheaper and with far greater range than...Toyota.
> 
> Prius: $20K
> Plug-in kit installed by Toyota: $10K
> ...


Exactly. I wouldn't buy anything Chevrolet made. Been there done that got a T-shirt. GMC trucks and Chevy have just always been problematic with the several I've owned, worked on or paid others to work on. 

Regarding the Volt, it's obviously overpriced. I think GM has made a serious judgement error in what people want OR they purposely priced it high to stifle sales for some reason. They did kill the electric car once you know, what has changed? Did Obama force their hand into building this thing as a condition of the bailouts? 

Regardless, I'm surprised the thing has sold as many as it has as expensive as it is.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Isn't the Prius really underpowered in electric only mode though? Also, doesn't it turn on the gas motor automatically at anything over 60 mph?


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Prius goes into gas mode at 34mph pre 2012. Current model can go to 62mph before gas mode. Can't speak for power, don't own one.


----------



## AviatorBJP (Sep 17, 2011)

Hybrids are not all equal. This is how I usually clump them together:

1) The standard hybrid is a gas car with an electric _efficiency extender_.

2) A plug in hybrid is an electric car with a gas _range and top speed extender_.

3) A serial hybrid car like the GM Volt is an electric car with a gas _range extender_.

The Volt was moving the right direction, its too bad they didn't take one more step and make an true electric car.


----------



## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

I have a relative with a Volt, he loves it. Goes well with his lifestyle (he's a retired engineer who loves techie stuff) and home solar system. It's their only car, daily driving on solar generated power, road trips whenever. Sort of the perfect target audience, too bad there aren't more retired rich folks who want to save the Earth around.


----------



## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

I could afford a Volt. I lost all passion for it when they made it look like a Malibu -- if I wanted a lame 100% passion-less car, I would buy one of those. GM makes plenty. 

But I could have gotten over the pedestrian looks ... The nail in the coffin was the massive NiMh battery pack causing the removal of the middle back seat.


----------



## AviatorBJP (Sep 17, 2011)

I cannot afford an Volt, at least not now. I am part of the working poor. A volt would cost me three years of my current wages. Though, I do not feel powerless about National Energy Independence, Fuel Prices, Global Warming, and other larger than life problems. I am building my own EV for an eighth the cost of the Volt. If a poor, 23 year old, college kid can do it, why can't GM 'the giant' do better than $38K? I bet they could do it for half. 

Maybe we should have an EV convention in the parking lot of GM. Give them some inspiration.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

lowcrawler said:


> I could afford a Volt. I lost all passion for it when they made it look like a Malibu -- if I wanted a lame 100% passion-less car, I would buy one of those. GM makes plenty.
> 
> But I could have gotten over the pedestrian looks ... The nail in the coffin was the massive NiMh battery pack causing the removal of the middle back seat.


The Volt battery is not NiMh, it is a lithium ion battery made by LG. IIRC, its nickel-manganese-cobalt.

Personally, I think it looks great, and I'm not a fan of most GM designs.


----------



## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

rochesterricer said:


> The Volt battery is not NiMh, it is a lithium ion battery made by LG. IIRC, its nickel-manganese-cobalt.


My mistake. Thank you for the correction.

... and also, that makes me wonder how horribly they had to have designed the car to require the bastardization of the back seat. (given I'm retrofitting my 1970 beetle with a pack of the same size and maintaining the entire back seat)


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The beetle has a good sized storage space behind the back seat, most cars don't, unless it's called a trunk.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

lowcrawler said:


> My mistake. Thank you for the correction.
> 
> ... and also, that makes me wonder how horribly they had to have designed the car to require the bastardization of the back seat. (given I'm retrofitting my 1970 beetle with a pack of the same size and maintaining the entire back seat)


They needed to maintain the hatch area for cargo space, so a big hump back there would have been a problem. Also, moving it rearward would have significantly altered the weight distribution. They are also using a bigger battery than is needed so they can maximize cycle life by only using a portion of the battery SOC.


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

mizlplix said:


> As compared to Leaf sales.....It indicates a preference for pure electric vehicles.


i think its indicates preference $20k vs $40k
volt electric when you need it and unlimited range - when you need it, but...
market of enthusiasm and adopters who willing to pay premium - squeezed
60 000 expected - little bit late with 40k... now e-ford focus coming up and other plug-in hybrids...


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

AviatorBJP said:


> I am sad to hear about GMs struggles. The Leaf seems to be doing well though. In September 2011 Leaf sales were double Volt sales. February 2012 marked 20,000 Leafs sold worldwide.
> 
> GM wasn't willing to brave the market a second time with a true EV.
> 
> ...


------------------
20k leafs sold - not a bit too optimistic? seems its more like 20k$ vs. 40k$

volt sales ~1000 in Us a month; leaf ~ 800 (worlwide?) 
+ volt's twin - opel ampera coming-up in europe (with its high gas prices);
btw. ampera (volt) - european car of the year

-------------------

The Japanese automaker loudly trumpeted the 20,000 reservations it originally collected back in September, 2010 and Nissan's Mark Perry recently told AutoblogGreen that, since then, that number has climbed to around 26,000. Where do things stand today? That's not exactly simple to figure out. Here's what we know:


Number of accepted Leaf reservations: 26,000
– Number of Leaf models sold: 10,000
– Number sold in January: 800 (estimate)
– Number sold in February: 800 (estimate. Perry recently said these two months were sold out or nearly sold out)
– Number of people who haven't had a chance to order because they live in a state where the Leaf is not yet for sale: 2,000 (according, again, to Perry)
– Number of people who cancelled (unknown)
= 12,400 people or so
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/30/a-word-on-nissan-leaf-sales-orders-reservation-numbers/

btw. byd-e6 (on the roads in china since 2010) 186mi range 2011 spec, 400 km (250mi) 2012 spec ~ 35k$ for europe and us
so its a tough game now, not like few years ago


----------



## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I have driven Chevies all of my driving life. Hell even my initials are GMC.
I have worked on them in dealerships and work on my own.
I would take a GM over anything else.

I don't even buy a used Chevy unless it has 70,000 miles on it..
Have put over 250,00 miles on quite a few of them, some 400,000.
Not a bad one in the bunch.

I worked at a FORD dealershiop and all 4 of us drove CHEVIES!!

My Yugo is the only non GMC vehicle...but I did the conversion.
Now if we could just get a cheaper battery pack, before I get too old.
69 now and counting.


----------



## AviatorBJP (Sep 17, 2011)

Taken from http://www.slashgear.com/nissan-leaf-electric-car-hits-10k-sales-in-usa-20210211/

In what must be a positive sign for those of you out there hoping for a much more electric future for vehicles, smashing out the smoke that our combustable engines now pollute the world with at some point in the future, Nissan has announced that their 2011 sales of the all-electric Leaf vehicle have fallen just a few hundred short of the 10k mark, but have well eclipsed the number here now in the first month of 2012. The 10,000th auto to have been sold to a customer occurred sometime last week, this right before the 2012 Detroit Auto Show. This of course is nothing compared to the amount of Leaf vehicles that have been sold worldwide.

Across the entire earth there’ve been over twice the amount of Leaf cars sold by Nissan compared to what’s been sold here in the USA. These numbers are counted started at the launch of the vehicle back in December of 2010. Nissan Leaf Marketing and Sales Strategist for Nissan North America Brendan Jones had the following to say on the subject:

“From a Leaf perspective, 2011 was a great year and very positive for the company. [10,000 sales] is more EVs than have been sold in the United States — and 20,000 globally — than all the other OEMs combined throughout the world. So that’s an outstanding achievement.” – Jones


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

so, leaf 10k sold in us, + there is still a line
and line also for ford focus ev

40k$ volt facing tough times
though chevy small ev coming-up

battery prices should go down and become more affordable - russia opened largest in the world lithium ion battery plant (thundersky technology, built in 9 month) 
http://www.liotech.ru/newsen


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What kind of beastie uses the 700 ah cells? Smallest liotechs are 200.


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

Ziggythewiz said:


> What kind of beastie uses the 700 ah cells? Smallest liotechs are 200.


for buses and traks - they already have placed orders
they will talk to you personally about the price if you place order for 3 mln ah per year


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

while we talking and buying "made in usa" batts from china, they working and building: 

China's State Grid and BYD Launch World's Largest Battery Energy Storage Station

http://bydit.com/doce/news/press/
http://www.byd.com.cn/views/home/indexe.htm

p.s. prices on gas in China 30% higher than in US


----------

