# 500A vs 1000A



## mk4gti (May 6, 2011)

I'm at 2200lbs running a Soliton JR, 38x130AH Calbs, impulse 9

Performance is good but not crazy... I'd go for the 1k for the extra umph when you require it. Otherwise I think you can get by with a 500A.


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm at a bit under 3000 pounds, and have my batteries limited to 400a lately. The difference between 500a and 650a to the motor (Warp9) is definitely noticeable. Not sure what the actual change would be in zero to 60 as I'm more limited by my 400a battery limit in a 'contest of acceleration.' But the the difference in off the line feel is large. With the motor side set to 650a, I can easily just leave it in third gear if I want. When I have it set at 500a, I need to use 2nd gear or it's just too lethargic off the line.

500a at the motor from a stop in 2nd gear is normal econo car type acceleration. 650a in 2nd will spin the front wheels, but the current drops very quickly and by 1500 rpm or so it's into battery current limit mode.

In normal driving, I start in 2nd gear and don't draw more than 400-450a (to the motor, more like 200a from the batteries) on a normal start. But it's nice to have more there when needed. Like having a little more fun, or if my wife is going to drive the car and doesn't want to shift (just leaves it in third gear all the time).

Assuming it's in your budget, and it physically fits, I see no downside to using a 1000a controller and limiting the battery current to what you want.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Caps18 said:


> If I am looking at two controllers, and everything is the same, except for the amount of amps that can be delivered to the motor by the controller, what impact will this have on normal driving?


If everything is the same (same cost, really?) a 1000A controller running at 500A will likely last longer than a 500A controller doing the same. 

Most controllers will let you adjust the current limit, so you could set it to 6 or 700 as a backup to having your foot go easy on the batts.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Caps18 said:


> If I am looking at two controllers, and everything is the same, except for the amount of amps that can be delivered to the motor by the controller, what impact will this have on normal driving?


Generally speaking, that give more available torque (great advantage IMO).

To clarify: What motor do you use? With or without transmission?


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Generally speaking, that give more available torque (great advantage IMO).
> 
> To clarify: What motor do you use? With or without transmission?



I am planing on using a Warp 9" and a manual transmission.

I'm sure the 1000A one will cost more, but I don't want to live with an underpowered vehicle if I choose the 500A one based on saving a few bucks. However, I think it should be fine still. Does using different gears impact how quick it accelerates at 500A?

I just don't have a good feel for how many Amps it will use in the normal everyday driving. 0-45 time is much more important in my city due to having to turn from a stop sign into traffic. I saw EVTV when they were driving the Escalade using 180A cruising on the highway (with 2 controllers). How many amps would a 2000 lbs vehicle use at different constant speeds?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I've run my buggy with a 400 amps controller and a 1000 amp controller. The 400 amp controller was an old Curtis 1221B that limited motor amps to 400. Since battery amps won't exceed motor amps the battery amps where also limited to 400. I used a 120 volt Optima battery pack. The 1000 amp controller is a Zilla Z1k that has separately settable motor and battery amp limits. I set the motor down to 300 amps and the motor current limit to 900 amps. That means the motor can get 900 amps up to about 1/3 of the pack voltage, then the motor current drops as the motor voltage rises until the motor is getting 300 amps at full pack voltage. I am running a 38 cell Lithium battery pack (121.6 volts.) The buggy weight dropped a little, from 1400 lb. to 1200 lb. 

The extra motor amps with the Zilla means a lot more low end torque. I can leave it in 3rd gear from 0-70 mph in most situations. I no longer have to use 2nd around town and shift to 3rd somewhere between 35 and 45 mph. It increases the drivability and reduces shifting. The peak power to weight ratio is actually worse with the low battery current limit, but the average power to weight ratio is better and the car is noticeably faster.


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

If you are very mature with an iron will then 1,000 amps is the way to go. You will be able to regulate the amp output with the foot peddle and have the extra power there if you ever really need it. If you are like me you will have good intentions but be mashing the peddle all the way every chance you get. If you have a 2,000 pound car with 144volt nom and 500 amps you will have a fairly peppy car. My Ev is 2760 with 144 V @ 500 amps and ADC 9” and it has very good acceleration and pulls some steep hills just fine. Put a 1,000 amp controller in and it would fly at the cost of way shorter range and more wear and tear on the motor. 
One last thing…If you go with a 1,000 amp controller make sure you have the motor secured with good mounts and the axles are strong enough.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

I vote for 1000A.

The reasons are already given:

1. Disappointment. If you spend a year of your life doing something, you want the outcome to be worthwhile.

2. You'll want more, TRUST ME. Electric power is addictive. Everybody skimps on their first build. After 6-months they are starting a 2nd build with 'real' power. Preemptive strike yourself and get there on the first try.

3. Nothing sells people on electric cars like a little Zoom. Nothing turns them off of electric cars like putt-putt. It's sad, but people like power.

4. You can always turn a 1000A down, but you can't turn a 500A up. Even if you run at 550A, that is 110%.

However, if you get the 1000A controller and crank it up and drive around with your foot constantly on the floor you WILL suffer motor issues. 650-750A is the happy zone where you will have great power without blowing your brushes to bits. Don't start in 3rd gear. Use 2nd. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. People love to say, "look how great this is, I can start in 3rd gear!" Zap! There goes another set of brushes. High-amperage at low rpm is the hardest thing on the motor. Using the gears saves watts and the motor by keeping it in the more efficient rpm range.

Good luck!


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Caps18 said:


> I am 90% sure that 500A will be just fine with me, but I just need to get some other opinions on this.


I remember another guy asking about 1000A controllers. 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25799
Might be some opinions there, but that was nearly 4 years ago.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

major said:


> I remember another guy asking about 1000A controllers.
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25799
> Might be some opinions there, but that was nearly 4 years ago.



Thanks, that will be a good read tonight.

But, electricity, amps and volts haven't changed in the past 4 years. I am disappointed that the EV parts manufacturers haven't done what computer parts makers did in the 80s and 90s. They would benchmark and test different configurations of the same car to show what impact changing one part (and spending more money) would have.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

ruckus said:


> I vote for 1000A.
> 
> The reasons are already given:
> 
> ...


That was the 10% thought in my mind... Now I am 90% sure I will go with the 1000A one even if it will take a few months longer to save up the money. I guess if I am going to spend $13,000 for a 500A truck or $14,000 for a 1000A truck it would be a simple choice.

I don't want to spend the next 10 years thinking, if only I had gone with the 1000A one.


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Caps18 said:


> That was the 10% thought in my mind... Now I am 90% sure I will go with the 1000A one even if it will take a few months longer to save up the money. I guess if I am going to spend $13,000 for a 500A truck or $14,000 for a 1000A truck it would be a simple choice.
> 
> I don't want to spend the next 10 years thinking, if only I had gone with the 1000A one.



I am an advocate for buying the higher performance version (1000A controller) however you shouldn't feel like the you are trapped or stuck if you choose the 500A version, as long as the controller is in good condition you can sell it to another enthusiast on the forum and recover up to ~80% of your original cost...


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

I got the Soliton 1 instead of the Jr. I have tried it with the current limits set to the same as the Jr and the car is satisfactory driving around in traffic. It is 2200 lbs with a Warp 9 and 33 cells. With 1000A the Warp9 will produce around 270 ft-lbs of torque. It will be about half that at 500A. I broke a motor mount with the 1000A setting in 2nd gear while demonstrating the car. It is zero to 25 in under a second when you don't break a motor mount. This better than any ride in an amusement park.

The one thing I do regret with buying the 1000A controller is the size. I would have had a more options for mounting the smaller controller and I could have put in two more cells.

If the extra money won't kill you and you have a place to mount it go for the larger controller. Nobody says you have to use the extra current but you can't if it isn't there.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Caps18 said:


> I don't want to spend the next 10 years thinking, if only I had gone with the 1000A one.


You are absolutely right.

And I'm not sure what is the based of the Ruckus comment about motor issues. I personally push 1000A (for few seconds) at motor terminal 4-5 time per day since a years now and the brush and commutator are in perfect shape (I used Impulse 9). I've also run my car continously during two month in fourth gear without problem (But cold winter air help a lot to cool the motor).
Some racers push 2000A in those motors, so 1000A for 2-3 sec isn't too hard for them.

And I have done the same observation than Doug, my 1900 lbs car is moving well with only 500A, but I will never regret to have the 1000A available. In fact, after running for a year, I would like to have a 1400A controler now...


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Since you have limited yourself to 144V you need the amps to have reasonable acceleration. You could double your voltage and pull 500 amps to twice the RPM and get the same acceleration using a lower gear, but that is more money than just getting the higher amp controller.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Watch out about your advice Batterypoweredtoad.

It's not true for a Warp 9 since you are limited to 170-180v and rpm limited to 5500. 
Over 250 lbs-ft of torque (1000A) in second gear will always beat around 120 lbs-ft (500A) in first gear because even if the torque at wheel is the same at start, you will need to shift the second speed at low speed and after the torque at wheel will be half.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Ah but we must consider sag! His 144V nominal will be more like 100V at 1000 Amps. The upper volt limit of a WarP9 will make it slightly less than the RPM at double the volts but the math is still pretty close. Factor in that the apples to apples 500 Amp/1000 Amp controller comparison is likely really between the _*600*_ Amp Junior and 1000 amp Soliton 1 and it gets even more even.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Yabert said:


> You are absolutely right.
> 
> And I'm not sure what is the based of the Ruckus comment about motor issues. I personally push 1000A (for few seconds) at motor terminal 4-5 time per day since a years now and the brush and commutator are in perfect shape (I used Impulse 9). I've also run my car continously during two month in fourth gear without problem (But cold winter air help a lot to cool the motor).
> Some racers push 2000A in those motors, so 1000A for 2-3 sec isn't too hard for them.
> ...


Glad to hear you are having good success.  Sounds like fun.

Not sure why some others (including myself) are not. It may be duration, voltage, brush break-in, or manufacturing variability. I think a number of failures are happening on the highway where it is easy to inadvertently exceed the continuous hp rating. They seem to tolerate momentary abuse much better.

You are a good case point that electric power is addictive. Once you get some, you always want MORE. It seems to turn almost everybody into a hot-rodder.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

*1000 amps* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *500 amps*










Actually, that is more like 2000 amps!


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

That is awesome. But shouldn't that switch be inside?


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

When drag racing a red emergency shut-off switch is required on the rear of the vehicle. The track officials complained that the switch wasn't marked to indicate which direction was "off" so John Wayland cleared it up. 

That picture has been running through my head since I saw the title of this thread!


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