# D&D ES 31B Motor Specifications



## reggiewatson (Jan 4, 2009)

Does anyone have the specs for a D&D ES-31B motor? I called the company today and they told me to call Wilderness EV to get them since they are an authorized distributor. I left a message and am waiting to hear back. I thought someone here might have the specs. I would like to know max amps and for how long as well as max continuous amps.

Thanks,

Reggie


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Does this motor have Regen? or is it a straight series DC type?


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## reggiewatson (Jan 4, 2009)

I think it is straight series DC. I have not seen anything about Regen.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

The ES-31B is a single shaft series wound motor, rated at 18 HP continuous, 72 to 144 volts. It is supposed to be 190 AMPs continuous and on par with the ADC 8" motor for continuous power.


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## reggiewatson (Jan 4, 2009)

TheSGC said:


> The ES-31B is a single shaft series wound motor, rated at 18 HP continuous, 72 to 144 volts. It is supposed to be 190 AMPs continuous and on par with the ADC 8" motor for continuous power.


Is that 190AMPS at 144 volts or 72? Any Ideas on the max amps for say 10 secs?

Thanks,
Reggie


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I think that is the rating at 72 volts. As for the 10 sec rating, it should be 500 AMPs since the motor has a similar design to the ADC X91-4003, but has 8 more HP to it. From what I can find, the ES-31B has a 18 HP continuous rating, but can get quite hot so don't push it past that continuously unless you blower cool it.


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## reggiewatson (Jan 4, 2009)

I would like to blower cool it anyways. I have seen the kits for the Warp motors but have not seen anything for the D&D motors. Any thoughts on how to do it and pitfalls to avoid?


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

reggiewatson said:


> I would like to blower cool it anyways. I have seen the kits for the Warp motors but have not seen anything for the D&D motors. Any thoughts on how to do it and pitfalls to avoid?


It's really easy to make a blower cooler. I am finishing up mine for my ADC K99-4007 and it is a 170 CFM 12 volt blower, an L piece of PVC pipe and a metal band that goes around the motor. The metal band is just I piece of aluminum flashing from Home Depot that I cut to size of the motor and shaped around the terminals on it. My website should have the pictures later today.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Oh, I found some pics already on my site. http://civicity.blogspot.com/2008/11/bits-and-pieces.html

It's the third and fourth picture down.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

TheSGC said:


> The ES-31B is a single shaft series wound motor, rated at 18 HP continuous, 72 to 144 volts. It is supposed to be 190 AMPs continuous and on par with the ADC 8" motor for continuous power.


From asking them directly (we are an authorized D&D dealer): 275A for 1 hour or until the motor windings hit 180C. That's what they told me, anyway.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Tesseract said:


> From asking them directly (we are an authorized D&D dealer): 275A for 1 hour or until the motor windings hit 180C. That's what they told me, anyway.


Wow, I really like those specs. I know what motor I am getting for my upgrade.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> 275A for 1 hour or until the motor windings hit 180C. That's what they told me, anyway.


That's pretty wide open. Could hit 180C in 10 minutes. And I guess they don't care how hot the brushes get. Not a solid rating at all.

major


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

major said:


> That's pretty wide open. Could hit 180C in 10 minutes. And I guess they don't care how hot the brushes get. Not a solid rating at all.
> 
> major


And this makes them different from every other motor manufacturer in what way???


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## reggiewatson (Jan 4, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> From asking them directly (we are an authorized D&D dealer): 275A for 1 hour or until the motor windings hit 180C. That's what they told me, anyway.


Thanks Tesseract,
What about peak amps for 10 sec, and for 2 min? What I'm trying to figure out is the size of the controller I want to purchase. I want to get the most out of this motor that I can without burning it up.

Reggie


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> And this makes them different from every other motor manufacturer in what way???


The proper way to rate the motor is to state the insulation class. Most are class H, good for 180C. And then the temperature rise for the rating curve. Most often this is 140C rise for class H. This is done because the ambient can vary. Then for that 140C rise, a specified time and load is given (for the particular ventilation of the machine).

For instance: 60 minutes, Class H, 140C rise, 100 amps, 48 volts, TEFC. Then all motors of that part number would have all internal temperatures within allowable limits when run under those conditions.

Not this crap "275A for 1 hour or until the motor windings hit 180C". That might work if you were running in subzero ambient. But what is the user supposed to do? Load the thing with thermocouples and see when it reaches 180? That is BS.

I have used D&D motors. Not this part number. They make a pretty good motor. And gave me solid data on performance and ratings. All they make is 6.6 inchers. I doubt a 6.6 inch D&D, or any other, would have a legitimate 60 minute rating of 275 amps. So your 180C limit comes into play. How many minutes does it take to reach 180C? They don't tell you that, so it is a crap shoot. You have no idea of what you're getting.

I used to rate motors for a living, ones used in the forklift industry. We had pretty well defined standards. I can say, for the most part, that motors for the diy EV market are very poorly defined WRT to performance and ratings.

"275A for 1 hour or until the motor windings hit 180C" is like giving a rating for a battery "100 Ahr or until it reaches 10 volts". So what if the battery only goes 10 minutes at 10 amps before it reaches 10 volts, it conforms to the "rating".

Regards,

major


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

major said:


> ...I can say, for the most part, that motors for the diy EV market are very poorly defined WRT to performance and ratings.


That was pretty much my point when I asked "this makes them different, how?" and why I appended "at least that's what they told me" to my original response. EV motors have such hokey ratings they make MOSFET manufacturers look like paragons of truth.

Unfortunately, it looks like the end-user *does* have to thread thermocouples throughout the motor windings and use an infrared thermometer to monitor the commutator temp to get a true current vs. time rating...


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

At "CloudElectric" stands: "The efficiency RPM on this motor is about 110 RPM/Volt".
What does that meen to me? At 120V meens 13200rpm? that sounds not realistic to me, is it?

Has anyone a motor rpm/amp curve for the 120/144Volt version?
I only found some data about 48V and 72V version.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

To get my license in germany, I need to get some certificates about this Motor or even a similar D&D Motor.
An emc (electromagnetic compatibility) document would be perfect but I take anything about this motor 
I hope one of you can help me.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

brainzel said:


> To get my license in germany, I need to get some certificates about this Motor or even a similar D&D Motor.
> An emc (electromagnetic compatibility) document would be perfect but I take anything about this motor
> I hope one of you can help me.


Hi brain,

I think you will have to get this from D&D or maybe the vendor from whom you purchased the motor. Or D&D may have a distributor over who can help. Contact them.



brainzel said:


> At "CloudElectric" stands: "The efficiency RPM on this motor is about 110 RPM/Volt".
> What does that meen to me? At 120V meens 13200rpm? that sounds not realistic to me, is it?


The RPM/Volt parameter is often used for PM motors; rarely for series wound motors. And it has little if anything to do with efficiency. But you are correct, if you apply 120 volts to this motor, the RPM would be quite high, but it would depend on the load. 



> Has anyone a motor rpm/amp curve for the 120/144Volt version?
> I only found some data about 48V and 72V version.


If you have the 72 volt speed torque characteristic curve (or data points), you can proportion the RPM at any load point by the voltage ratio for a close approximation.

Regards,

major


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

major said:


> If you have the 72 volt speed torque characteristic curve (or data points), you can proportion the RPM at any load point by the voltage ratio for a close approximation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> major


Hi major,
Was this sepex measurement an es 31? If so, extrapolation may be possible.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42896
Gerhard


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

GerhardRP said:


> Hi major,
> Was this sepex measurement an es 31? If so, extrapolation may be possible.
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42896
> Gerhard


Hi Gerhard,

No. It was ES-71G-52. The ES 31B is series, from what I saw.

major


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## dynoguy (Jun 29, 2010)

I am not very good with the theory on this stuff but here is my two cents worth on how my ev went with 31B motors.

I have had two 31B motors in my car, a 120 volt system. Burned both of them up. Actually blew the brushes completely out. Alabama can get kinda hot in August. And I had the front completely blocked off. On a thread I started sometime ago I was told I needed to add a blower set up kind of like one that is in this one to cool it. I think that most of my problems were the operator though, I never really knew how to drive an ev. 

D&D sold me the second one so I don't understand why they wouldn't sell one to someone else. I bought my original kit from Wilderness EV. Trying to get hold them use to be almost impossible. I haven't called them in ages though. 

There was some talk earlier about draw and continuous use, so here is a little of my history with one- My set up drew over 400 amps under hard acceleration, and it really accelerated! 5th gear going up hill and it would accelerate. Could be part of the reason I have killed two of'em...lol D&D told me the motor was rated at 200 amps continuous draw. I don't pretend to know much about this stuff so I just tried to keep the amp gauge under 200 amps most of the time. Obviously didn't do a very good job though. 

Since my car is set up for this motor I am going to get another when I come up with bucks. And I like the guy I have talked to at D&D.


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