# Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*



> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Maybe this is a good time to ask. What do people think would be the
> > "best" way to provide plans? Printed on paper like R.Q. Riley? In some
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Maybe this is a good time to ask. What do people think would be the
> > "best" way to provide plans? Printed on paper like R.Q. Riley? In some
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Yes, Google Sketchup is a very good program for being free (still very
cheap, like under $500 for the pro version), and more and more people are
using it. We used it extensively for solar layouts and renderings the last
place I worked. It is aimed more for 3D stuff than 2D, so we used
omnigraffle for the 2D stuff (which is a similar program to visio, only a
bit nicer IMO -- only for Macs).

Z



> Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Lee wrote -

> . I'm trying to learn CAD
> to create good drawings, but it's slow going. It seems that all CAD
> programs are expensive and hard to learn, and try to lock you into
> "their" way of doing things, which makes sharing very difficult.

Lee,

So what else is new?

I use ACAD everyday for my job and I couldn't agree with you more... but from an 
engineering/architectual point of view it is fantastic, as are all the Autodesk, Solidworks, 
pro-Egineer, etc programs.

I recently came across a new free/beta drawing program from Dassault Systems, the Solidworks 
Company. http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/draftsight-overview/.

I've experimented a little with it and really like it.

Rush
Tucson AZ 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Rush,
Thanks for that link. I know of Lee's headaches. In the past 5 months I've had 
to learn Altium Designer for schematic and board layout, what a PITA.
I'm also in the process of learning Autocad since packaging of my new AC 
inverter control for golf carts needs to be designed without help
of a mechanical engineer/drafting technician. This drags out the design cycle, 
but should be rewarding knowing you did the hardware and packaging work on your 
own.
Rod


----- Original Message ----
From: Rush <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:53:55 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated 
Conversions !


Lee wrote -

> . I'm trying to learn CAD
> to create good drawings, but it's slow going. It seems that all CAD
> programs are expensive and hard to learn, and try to lock you into
> "their" way of doing things, which makes sharing very difficult.

Lee,

So what else is new?

I use ACAD everyday for my job and I couldn't agree with you more... but from an 

engineering/architectual point of view it is fantastic, as are all the Autodesk, 
Solidworks, 

pro-Egineer, etc programs.

I recently came across a new free/beta drawing program from Dassault Systems, 
the Solidworks 

Company. http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/draftsight-overview/.

I've experimented a little with it and really like it.

Rush
Tucson AZ 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*



> Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Rush,
> > Thanks for that link. I know of Lee's headaches. In the past 5 mont=
> hs I've had
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Rush,

I agree, DS really raised the bar with releasing draftsight, and i'm not
being biased, i just happen to be a software engineer at Dassault Systemes


Another decent freebee out there i've tried recently is called QCAD. just
google it, you can find easy windows installers for it, etc.

Ed Moore
Tolland, CT



> Rush <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Lee wrote -
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Lee,

First, what is it you're trying to do? Are you trying to provide 2D
engineering-type drawings? Or, is it more like 3D assembly instructions?
Are people supposed to work with (i.e. enhance or modify) these drawings in
some way or just view them?

Several people have mentioned Sketchup, which I think is awesome and
brilliantly simple to learn. It's great for modeling - even in excruciating
detail. You can rotate objects in any direction, zoom in, even go inside,
hide or expose portions by toggling layers. It's no good for engineering or
architectural drawings, though.

Not to overwhelm you, but I use AutoSketch, by AutoDesk (actually they
bought out another company) for architectural working drawings. Anyway,
it's more user friendly than AutoCad from what I see. Pretty cheap. Very
simple to learn the essentials. It does a good job with layers, colors,
line weights, better with right angles than organic shapes, though you can
do the latter. All 2D. Has a proprietary file format, but can produce DXF
files too.

Peri


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: 04 November, 2010 8:33 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated
Conversions !

Two options that I can think of is pdf format... these are quite versatile
and readable by a variety of computers with free programs in order to print
them (either native for Mac, or free downloads for PC).

A little more versatile would be .dwg format from autocad, which you can
download a variety of free readers (which do not allow modifying of the
files, but you can view them) for mac or PC. Not too hard, and doesn't
require buying the several $ cad program unless you want to modify it (if
you allow people to do that anyway...). Most of the other CAD programs out
there (visio, omnigraffle, etc) do allow importing dwg files from autocad,
though with varying degrees of corruption of the drawing while doing it.....

Z


> Maybe this is a good time to ask. What do people think would be the 
> "best" way to provide plans? Printed on paper like R.Q. Riley? In some 
> cheap toy CAD package that no one uses? In some popular commercial CAD 
> package that you have to buy? I don't want to just give everything 
> away; we have to somehow keep control of the design, or all I've done 
> is waste all our time and money.
>
> -
>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

>
> Maybe this is a good time to ask. What do people think would be the
> "best" way to provide plans? Printed on paper like R.Q. Riley? In some
> cheap toy CAD package that no one uses? In some popular commercial CAD
> package that you have to buy? I don't want to just give everything 
> away;
> we have to somehow keep control of the design, or all I've done is 
> waste
> all our time and money.
>
> -- 
> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
>

Sketchup, please!

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*



> Peri Hartman wrote:
> 
> > Several people have mentioned Sketchup, which I think is awesome and
> > brilliantly simple to learn. It's great for modeling - even in
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 11/5/2010 2:25 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> >> Sketchup, please!
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Lee,

Have you considered trying to find a college student that would take 
the project on to gain experience. Can you really afford the time to 
do this all yourself?



> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > On 11/5/2010 2:25 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> >> Sketchup, please!
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Hi,

I used SketchUp and DataCAD in combination to do the model and drawings for may CarBEN EV open source design. Having the 3D information in the hands of the builder makes a lot of sense.

Email me if you would like a copy of the SketchUp file, and/or the DataCAD file (or a DWG of it)! 

Check my blog (linked in my signature) for a look at the CarBEN design, as example of what you can do in SketchUp. My only issue with a SU model, is that I want to do CFD analysis, so I can check the aerodynamics.

>> Maybe this is a good time to ask. What do people think would be the
>> "best" way to provide plans? Printed on paper like R.Q. Riley? In some
>> cheap toy CAD package that no one uses? In some popular commercial CAD
>> package that you have to buy? I don't want to just give everything 
>> away; we have to somehow keep control of the design, or all I've done is 
>> waste all our time and money.
>> 
> 
> Sketchup, please!

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

They do aim it at that in the marketing, but you can do dimensioned drawings
with it as well, and export them in .dwg format (autocad) with the pro
version.



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 11/5/2010 2:25 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote:
> > > Sketchup, please!
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Hi Lee,

>> Have you considered trying to find a college student that would take
>> the project on to gain experience. Can you really afford the time to
>> do this all yourself?
> 
> Yes, indeed I did try this. I worked with a team of students from MIT. 
> We scanned our Sunrise body, and gave them the files. They were going to 
> do wonderful things, but instead just played with the files to make 
> pretty pictures of dream cars that they will never build. And gave free 
> copies to their friends...

What kind of files are the scans? If I can, I'd be happy to try and make a model the Sunrise for you.

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*

Been using Altium since 2004 and protel before that, it was great in the
beginning and went downhill from there as they "improved" it. We use altium
and have mech engineers using pro E for the case designs, Altium has so many
features I can't remember them all, I could never do justice to pro e as
well! I could do something with Acad but having mech eng to do the
mechanical produces a much better product. I don't think anyone can do
everything well anymore, there is just too much to know.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Peter Gabrielsson
Sent: Friday, 5 November 2010 1:13 p.m.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated
Conversions !



> Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Rush,
> > Thanks for that link. I know of Lee's headaches. In the past 5 mont=
> hs
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] It is time to raise the bar, to more Sophisticated Conversions !*



> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > I think what Roger meant was not some volunteer work
> > which often results in "loose cannon" behaviour - it may
> > fire or not and it may be in a useful direction or not...
> ...


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