# VW Bug - Electric Current 9.82sec 133 mph 1/4 mile



## John Wayland (May 26, 2008)

Hello Everyone,

The numerical info in the title of this post should have been '9.51 @135.65 mph'!

>After googling around it seems Black Current is running a pretty similar setup to >White Zombie but still with a lead acid pack.









Correction...Black Current switched to a hi pro lithium pack and is no longer running on lead acid. Having run his best lead acid ET of 11.2, I had predicted this non-street legal MC (modified conversion) class machine would drop right into the 9s once he got a light and powerful lithium pack...he did! A BIG congrats to Olly! Time slip info and full details were immediately provided.

An interesting comparison:

Zombie's best lead acid ET was 11.8, and largely due to the change to lithium, dropped to 10.2 - a 13% improvement. We ran four nearly identical 10.2 ETs due to limits I had dialed in. That percent of increase will rise to about 15% the next time we hit the track when I raise those limits to allow the PS class (pro street) 110 mile per charge fully street legal Zombie to just dip into the 9s.

Black Current's best lead acid ET was 11.2, and largely due to the change to lithium, dropped to 9.5 - a 15% improvement.

Lithium is really the game changer!

In forming the rules for NEDRA's race classes, we considered safety, fairness, and the 'spirit' of each class. That 'spirit' part of the classes plays a bigger role with electrics as it does with gassers, since NEDRA's goal is to promote EVs as an alternative to gasoline-fueled vehicles. If you want to push the electric envelope as far as you can for your chosen vehicle, you can design it to comply with MC (modified conversion) or XS (extreme street) where nearly anything goes...you can run a gutted shell of a car and remove stock glass, bumpers, use minimalist composite panels, paper-thin composite for windows, etc. - all to go a light as you can with no concerns about the car resembling what it once was. If you instead want to go as quick and fast as you can while keeping the car fully street legal and having all original bodywork, bumpers, glass, and the interior in tact, we have the SC (street conversion) and PS (pro street) classes. Whether a pure race car, a race-oriented street car, or a street car that is damn quick, they all do their part to dispel the notion that EVs are slow, dull, and boring.

Another point of interest - both Black Current and White Zombie use the same Siamese 9 'Impulse' style Jim Husted-built motor, both use a Zilla controller, both use a Ford 9 inch rear end, and both run LiPol packs.

Again, congrats to Olly and his crew! Olly is a good sport, and together with his crew has done an outstanding job on the design, build, and track performance of his electric Bug. A have a feeling high 8s are on the horizon!

See Ya...John Wayland


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## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

John Wayland said:


> .....
> 
> Again, congrats to Olly and his crew! Olly is a good sport, and together with his crew has done an outstanding job on the design, build, and track performance of his electric Bug. A have a feeling high 8s are on the horizon!
> 
> See Ya...John Wayland


Thanks for the clarification John. Just another point of note, Olly has been active in NEDRA during his whole build and has shared all the information about his build while asking questions and learning from many of the folks who have been doing this for a while. Olly is now the NEDRA Regional Director for all of the UK. No doubt we will be hearing much more from Olly and team Black Current as new improvements are found.

Mike Willmon
NEDRA, President


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Not a bad run for a 1200lb car. Similar to the very light and small White Zombie. I would love to see NEDRA or ECEDRA car running in the 9's with a 2500lbs plus car.


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## John Wayland (May 26, 2008)

Hello Everyone.

It's amazing to me how much misinformation one guy can spread - this latest one from Adamowicz:

>Not a bad run for a 1200lb car. Similar to the very light and small White Zombie. I >would love to see NEDRA or ECEDRA car running in the 9's with a 2500lbs plus car.

In his push to 'equalize' things in his favor, he's posted at the EVDL that a 1983 B210 weighed 2000 lbs....problem is, the B210 was only made from '74 through '78! Now, here he is again with more bad info. The Zombie's stats, including its curb weight of 2348 lbs., are available at my web site. 

How is 1200 lbs. similar to 2348 lbs.? How similar is a track-only tube frame Bug with light weight composite bodywork and wrinkle wall drag slicks, to a street legal, daily-driver factory steel unibody Datsun on DOT tires? 

As to a 2500 lb. car running 9s, the Zombie is just 152 lbs. shy of that mark and a scant .2 seconds away from the 9s (with restrictions dialed in)...and it just went 82 miles on one charge with the same tires it drag races on, with about 30% capacity left in its pack.

Comparing the gutted hollow shell trailer queen Camaro with its ill-fitting flimsy composite front, doors, and paper-thin plastic windows, to the 100+ mile per charge 10.2 second Zombie that is all factory steel, glass, bumpers, interior panels and carpet, and has all its street legal required items functioning...it begs the question who really has the toy car?


See Ya...John Wayland


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Not a bad run for a 1200lb car. Similar to the very light and small White Zombie. I would love to see NEDRA or ECEDRA car running in the 9's with a 2500lbs plus car.


If by "similar" you mean the White Zombie weighs almost twice as much as the Black Current.


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

> Comparing the gutted hollow shell trailer queen Camaro with its ill-fitting flimsy composite front, doors, and paper-thin plastic windows, to the 100+ mile per charge 10.2 second Zombie that is all factory steel, glass, bumpers, interior panels and carpet, and has all its street legal required items functioning...it begs the question who really has the toy car?


Gonna be hard to argue this one. 

Thanks John

Love watching your car beat the pants off the competition. 

Pete 

Your work has been an inspiration to me for a long time now.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

John,

You are queen of misinformation, you claim your car to be a stock Datsun, but it is far from stock with a lighter floor and after market suspension.

You know nothing about drag racing and do not even drive your own car. Try racing by the rules that fit all racers, not specific rules that only fit your car. 

You love to write these long ridiculous rants on your car and your life, try getting some balls and racing. I am surprised you can get your head through the door.

You see where my car is at now, I challenge you to a drag race $5000.00 and you can have someone else race you toy. Do you have any balls?



John Wayland said:


> Hello Everyone.
> 
> It's amazing to me how much misinformation one guy can spread - this latest one from Adamowicz:
> 
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

EVfun said:


> If by "similar" you mean the White Zombie weighs almost twice as much as the Black Current.


Very similar means - small size vehicle. Both the Datsun and the VW create very little wind resistance due to their small bodies.


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

I think your misinformed. Many race car owners don't race their own cars.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Now there's some impressive acceleration!


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## nosill (Dec 31, 2010)

I personally think you guys should praise the acomplishments of each other instead of trying to kick the other one down. You are doing projects that would be alot easier sharing info and learning everything on your own and wrecking alot of parts in the process. You are not building cars that you can just open a book and put it together you have to rely on info of others to complete the projects easier. When I agreed to take on the job of building this car for Ron Adamowicz(not knowing what I was getting myself into-LOL) I knew this was going to be the begining of the next big thing and with the help of sean (SPL PIMP) I think we will be building more of these cars. Even though I wasn't involed with all the electronics of the car I do have some electrical backround and will be looking further into further into what I can do to make them faster. Back in the early 90's I got involved in the street cars racing on small tires(10.5") and stock suspensions running in the 10's and weighing 3500lbs to what they(outlaw 10.5) involved into today running in the mid 6's in the quarter weighing 2800 to 3100lbs . So lets get along and lets move these things up the respect ladder and as Lawless is showing with the bike get those low ET's, Thanx, Bill Scrivener


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## dawnpatrol (Jul 11, 2010)

Hi Guys

As a noob I wanted to try and promote discussion about Electric Current, particularly as it is in the UK where I am and I had never heard of it AND knowone was talking about it on here! I have now joined evdl ans so have been trying to piece the info together to help improve my knowledge...and it is getting there.

I have been through the PlasmaBoyRacing site again and again and it really is a treasure trove of information...so thanks John.

So....lets talk about the good and not get UGLY..then we can all learn...as people like John and Olly are very knowledgable and have backed this up with real time performance..

Kind Rgds Adrian


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

It's so weird to listen to that strip announcer with his English accent and his appropriate use of language. Jolly good show mate, tea? 

If you've never been shot out of a cannon, here's what it looks like. See if you can spot the other car in the "race". http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NLqQ35PFWl8

JR


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## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

JRoque said:


> It's so weird to listen to that strip announcer with his English accent and his appropriate use of language. Jolly good show mate, tea?
> 
> If you've never been shot out of a cannon, here's what it looks like. See if you can spot the other car in the "race". http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NLqQ35PFWl8
> 
> JR


What other car in the race? You mean the one that stayed parked at the line?


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## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

JRoque said:


> If you've never been shot out of a cannon, here's what it looks like. See if you can spot the other car in the "race". http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NLqQ35PFWl8
> 
> JR


What is it about that video that makes me giggle like a little kid?  

Say, what's the noise on the audio track when the driver mashes the throttle? Is it electrical noise from the commutation? Just curious.

Now I *really* want to be "shot out of a cannon!"


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## electrabishi (Mar 11, 2008)

Wirecutter said:


> What is it about that video that makes me giggle like a little kid?
> 
> Say, what's the noise on the audio track when the driver mashes the throttle? Is it electrical noise from the commutation? Just curious.
> 
> Now I *really* want to be "shot out of a cannon!"


Kinda sounds to me like a combination of gear noise and hot tire sticking to the pavement noise. The controller itself makes a little noise but I don't hear it above the road and gear noise. I can't hear it in mine either from inside the car. But when you're accelerating like that there's not much of anything you hear that sticks to your brain.... it all migrates to the back of the car ;-)

Mike


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi. I'd say that's commutation noise in RF form coming from the DC motors.

Back in the day, we used to put bleach (Clorox) on the tires to make them sticky. Perhaps is not as effective as we thought it was since I don't see anyone doing that anymore.

JR


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## Dink (Jun 3, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Very similar means - small size vehicle. Both the Datsun and the VW create very little wind resistance due to their small bodies.


Quit WHINNING !!!!!!!!! You chose your own car, sorry if you made the wrong choice in your car.


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## Dink (Jun 3, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> John,
> 
> You are queen of misinformation, you claim your car to be a stock Datsun, but it is far from stock with a lighter floor and after market suspension.
> 
> ...


 Wayland is at PIR all the time. Just shut up and go there. You made the challenge. Step up and show YOUR BALLS! Talk is cheap, and you seem to be the champ at that.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

Hey everyone,
the web page of the VW Bug states that the setup includes a small gear box that is "operated by solenoid and changes gear in a fraction of a second":

http://www.hvwc.co.uk/Blackcurrent/bc3/bc32.php

this sound really impressive!!! considering Tesla couldn't make their gearbox work. Does anyone know what exactly they are using? is there pictures or any further information on it?

Thanks!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

efan said:


> ...the setup includes a small gear box that is "operated by solenoid and changes gear in a fraction of a second":..
> 
> ...Does anyone know what exactly they are using? is there pictures or any further information on it?
> 
> Thanks!


Sounds and looks like the siamese motor setup Jim sells with the Gear Vendors overdrive unit. If you look at the pic with him standing with the motors, you'll see the overdrive unit on it. I thought there was a larger image, but I'm too tired to look right now.

I was planning on using a GV unit about seventy pages or so in my thread, but decided on a different (direct drive) setup.

I'm curious about his Zilla - 440v, but _only_ 680K watts. At a Z2K's max current that should be 880K - maybe it's a misprint. Either way, when did Otmar start doing an EEHV, 440v, Zilla?!


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> Sounds and looks like the siamese motor setup Jim sells with the Gear Vendors overdrive unit.


So...if that's the case, then when they say gearbox that is "operated by solenoid and changes gear in a fraction of a second" they actually refer to the series-parallel switching of Zilla? sounds very misleading, or is it just me.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

efan said:


> So...if that's the case, then when they say gearbox that is "operated by solenoid and changes gear in a fraction of a second" they actually refer to the series-parallel switching of Zilla? sounds very misleading, or is it just me.


No, it is referring to the Gear Vendors overdrive unit. Think of it as a very small and very strong two speed transmission. See a better description on their site:

http://www.gearvendors.com/


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

efan said:


> So...if that's the case, then when they say gearbox that is "operated by solenoid and changes gear in a fraction of a second" they actually refer to the series-parallel switching of Zilla? sounds very misleading, or is it just me.


No, if it's a GV overdrive unit it's an actual gearbox. The GV OD uses a planetary gear setup like an automatic transmission, but doesn't need the cooling system. It can change back and forth between the two ratios, at the flick of a switch. They can be built to handle 1200hp and have been proven on the street and in racing, with everything from a hot rod, to a motorhome, to a full-on race car. I thought about it, and had planned to use one (back then) because of the quality and capability of the piece.


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