# [EVDL] I need some feedback



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've decided to take the plunge with a conversion project and get creative =
with funding by submitting a proposal to Kickstarter. I'd love some feedbac=
k to punch up my project page. It is not active yet and won't be till I fee=
l I've got it as polished as possible.

If you want to check it out, the preview link is here: http://www.kickstart=
er.com/projects/927219984/144445169?token=3Ddba4f6e7

Thanks in advance!
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't take these the wrong way, but there are a few (constructive)
comments/questions:

- A Studebaker seems like a heavy car to convert. It also seems kind of
too unconventional to garner much interest. I would think people
considering investing in this project would want to support a project that
other people can easily replicate themselves. Also, a good rule of thumb on
conversion projects is to stick to a popular car that is easy to get parts
for and that you can find cheap. Are you doing this car because you have it
already sitting out back of the house? Or just because you think they're
neat cars. Neither is necessarily a good reason.
- The next obvious question potential donors are going to ask is: what
are your qualifications to build this car? Have you done an EV conversion
before? What is the likelihood that you'll actually be able to pull it off?
- The second obvious question is: what are you qualifications to write a
book on the project? Have you ever written a non-fiction "how to" book
before? What is the likelihood that you can finish the project? Where are
you going to publish it? How will you market it?
- Next question is: what will make your book and/or project unique? Why
wouldn't someone just buy one of the existing books on conversion from
amazon and do their own?
- What kind of timescale are you going to need to perform both jobs?
Typically, kickstarter projects need to be finished within 30-60 days or
they probably won't get funded. Writing a good, well-researched and written
book will take 6-12 months alone, in my experience. I'm the author of a
number of published nonfiction books; most people who think they can write
abook, but never have, are usually in for a rude awakening. It's a LOT
harder than it looks to produce something worthwhile and useful.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing this, but I am trying to offer
some hard-won advice. Before jumping in with a kickstarter project, spend a
few months getting everything figured out ahead of time, rough
draft/outline the book, etc.

Just my two cents...
-M



> Jay Robison <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I've decided to take the plunge with a conversion project and get creative
> > with funding by submitting a proposal to Kickstarter. I'd love some
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 18 Apr 2012 at 11:29, Mark Warner wrote:
> 
> > - A Studebaker seems like a heavy car to convert. It also seems kind of too
> > unconventional to garner much interest.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jay,

Your basic set up looks good. Here are some suggestions that I think would =
get some buy in:
*A picture of a similar vehicle that you would like to purchase to begin th=
e conversion, something on E-bay, a local car, something on the internet th=
at is finished and sharp, something that needs a lot of work.
*Sell your expertise or drive, show what you have built before, what projec=
t you have done with passion and hard work. Did you rebuild or repair a fir=
st car, build things as a hobby, undertake a project that was difficult and=
time consuming?
*Are there any local people that build electric cars that have offered to a=
ssist that would lend their name, expertise, support, ideas....
*You are going to put in a lot of labor, ideas, creativity. What else can y=
ou provide? Do you have a Studebaker rolling chassis in the barn? A neighbo=
r who has offered to weld up battery boxes, skills in soldering, mechanical=
ability, a relative with a machine shop, a motor from a dc powered forklif=
t just waiting to be used?
*Do you have time to update the web page from time to time so that supporte=
rs can watch and feel a part of the process? Do not commit too much time he=
re because that takes away resources from the project, but an occasional up=
date would be helpful.

Please add a dose of safety to your work, high voltage, sparks, hot conduct=
ors, motor controllers suddenly failed 100% on, jacks, etc..

I aim to be helpful and I hope I have not stepped on any toes. You are cons=
idering a tough but doable project and should be commended....Electric conv=
ersion and possible rebuild of an older car, write a book, spend time with =
family and a second child on the way!

I am interested in your book.

At the end of the project the EV grin you get will be priceless, and drivin=
g past the gas stations, or stopping to air up your tires, will be rewardin=
g.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Jay Robison
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:50 AM
To: Electric Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] I need some feedback

-I've decided to take the plunge with a conversion project and get creative=
with funding by submitting a proposal to Kickstarter. I'd love some feedba=
ck to punch up my project page. It is not active yet and won't be till I fe=
el I've got it as polished as possible.

-If you want to check it out, the preview link is here: http://www.kickstar=
ter.com/projects/927219984/144445169?token=3Ddba4f6e7

-Thanks in advance!


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| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If I did this--by any means--it'd have to be a Lark or a Hawk. I've actuall=
y wanted to do this for years, so I've done research and the curb weight on=
a GT Hawk ('62-'64) is right around 3000 pounds; a Lark is less--around 25=
00 lbs., IIRC.


________________________________
From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> =

Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I need some feedback
=



> On 18 Apr 2012 at 11:29, Mark Warner wrote:
> 
> > - A Studebaker seems like a heavy car to convert. It also seems ki=
> nd of too
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've done a successful Kickstarter project. (Got $5k for a $2k project.)
Probably the biggest thing that you need to do is to make the rewards more
interesting. Is there anything that you can make and give out. Anything
from refrigerator magnets to offering to sit down and have coffee with
people. Give people options and lots of them. Half of my money came from
big rewards for amounts $100 or more. But, my rewards gave them something
substantial in return. Unfortunately, your project appears to benefit you
more than others (you get to keep the car, afterall). This is something
that may be tough for the Kickstarter communities to get behind.

-D




> Alan Brinkman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Jay,
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 18 Apr 2012 at 13:01, Daniel Busby wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, your project appears to benefit you more than others
> > (you get to keep the car, afterall). This is something that may be
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I do not know kickstarter, but if you already have an in, then 
you are ahead of many. Perhaps it was the Muppet's Fozzie Bear 
mention
http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Fozzie%27s_Studebaker
that brought donations from those that are willing to throw a few 
buck$ at someone with a rainbows-and-unicorns dream. 

Who knows, that does not matter, you are in. I doubt you would have
garnered much interest if you had a detailed EV nuts and bolts 
blurb up there (like many techie-types active on the evdl are 
more interested in yacking about). 

But now that you are in, from what I have read on your kickstarter 
trolling-for-donation$ page, A Studebaker as the donor is set in 
stone because of your addiction.

Could you reply with what your EV driving needs are:

Range:
Is this conversion going to be a daily driver?
If so, how far a commute?

Top Speed:
Whenever I have been anywhere in Texas, in comparison to the other
parts of the U.S. I have been in, it seemed state politicians loved 
petroleum businesses, as there seemed to be asphalt to drive on going 
anywhere and everywhere (some places roads dead-ended at no-where/ a 
farmer's dirt field, etc.).

That was not a dig as I do not want to be known to 'Mess with Texas'.
For the all too brief few weeks at different parts of Texas I stayed 
on company business, it let me know the conversion needs to be highway
speed capable with a top speed of at least 75 mph so not raise the 
ire of any asphalt cowboys (Texas drivers more-politely let me know I 
need to push my boot down and get out of their way or get off the 
road).

Seating:
With a family of soon-to-be four, seating for all of them would be 
nice, but is that how you plan to use the conversion EV? I would plan
to keep the EV for at least 10 years after all that work to get my 
money's worth out of it. By that time your kids will be preteen size. 

Charging:
Though the EVSE infrastructure is rapidly changing in Texas, after 
looking at the EVSE on recargo.com there is plenty within Austin, but
not much outside of that realm. So, even with a 6.6kW on-board charger
and a J1772 coupler, right now you would not be able to charge you 
way north toward Dallas where the N. TX Studebaker club is at
http://clubs.hemmings.com/notxsdc/

If you wanted to attend any of their shows with your conversion you 
would need to rent a Uhaul flat bed and tow vehicle there (I've done 
it, it can be done with enough time & $).

"Who loves ya, baby?"
Have you checked with your local Studebaker club about a conversion?
Would they accept you, or shun you because you have sacrilegiously 
modified it from original?

Pushing your envelope:
Outside Austin are some charge points, but Nissan dealerships 
may not allow you to charge if you are not their Leaf customer
(each dealership has their own thinking on this).

About the farthest you could go is likely to prearrange a visit at 
Willie's farm in Dale, TX (SE of Austin, near Livingston).
www.recargo.com/sites/2659
(recargo is slow today, so instead try)
http://carstations.com/4067

So, you may not have a need for a full powered 6kW on board charger,
and a 3kW half-powered one with a level-1 ability would do you fine.

Donor vehicle options: 
The EValbum.com does not have any Studebaker conversions found on a 
search (hint: you might want to give some thought as to why that is). 

If you reply that you are willing to consider other Studebaker models,
I suggest a Studebaker pickup truck over a sedan
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A2KJkIa0RZBPulsAY_SJzbkF?p=Studebaker+truck
A pu truck has the brakes and suspension to support the added weight 
the conversion will bring. Plus a tilt bed would allow you to mount 
the pack low on the chassis just under the bed. Plenty of room for 
the pack, a low center of gravity, and a tilt bed that gives easy 
access for monthly watering checks.

The pu truck has a large front bench seat. Perhaps less than enough 
for a family of two adults and two preteen kids, but you could mount 
rear facing seats in the bed like what the Subaru Brat had. The kids 
would have their own part of the vehicle to enjoy (albeit during fair 
weather)
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/08/31/13/26/1986_subaru_brat-pic-9209949507203417377.jpeg

Else, if your heart is set on a 1951 Studebaker Bullet Nose Commander
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A2KJketxRZBP5jAAhzOLuLkF?p=1951+Studebaker+Bullet+Nose+Commander
you will need to do some engineering to know where you are going to 
mount the pack.

Studebaker Station Wagon might be a compromise between the two, as
some Station Wagons have a more beefy suspension, brakes and room
for a pack
http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/cubawagon.jpg
( ref http://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/2005october.htm )

http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/pictures/1953_Studebaker_Cantrell_ad1.jpg
http://www.kitfoster.com/images/2008-6-18_1954StudeSWWeb-Large.jpg
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z5569/Studebaker-Champion-Woody-Wagon-Concept.aspx

Project price range:
Since you were concerned with the $30+k Leaf price I will assume a 
lower price would be better for you, as you are likely to spend way-
too-much on restoring just the Studebaker.

So a 144VDC PbSO4 wet-cell pack of at least T-105's would be a 
starting point (least cost, and least range).

Mark's post below, is what I heard all the time when I mentioned I 
wanted a larger donor vehicle to convert because of my personal size. 
Ridiculously, all the old-timers at EAA Chapters kept telling me it 
won't work as I might have a range of 10 miles. They were not 
listening as my size did not fit in the munchkin mobiles they were 
converting.

Because of my size, I chose the smallest big-vehicle I could get, an 
S-10 Blazer. Its inefficiencies reduced a drive system design that 
would have given an easy 50+ mile range on a munchkin mobile, but 
only gave a 40- mile range on my heavy wind-pusher.

So do not believe your choice can not make a conversion, just be 
prepared to do some engineering calculations to know what your real 
range will be, and how you are going to fit batteries into the sedan.

Lastly, if you do choose the sedan, you are going to have to beef up 
the brakes and suspension to handle the added weight. You should 
source those before committing to a vehicle model (that is the 
advantage to converting a truck or van, those donor vehicles already 
have what you need to handle the added weight). 
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker
...
http://studebakermuseum.org/p/about/history/
...
http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/techtips.asp


{brucedp.150m.com}



-


> Mark Warner wrote:
> > Don't take these the wrong way, but there are a few (constructive)
> > comments/questions:
> >
> ...


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