# group buy lifepo4



## FalconEV (Aug 21, 2007)

100Ah high rate discharge cells, 4C continuous
New on market
$200 each + shipping from west coast
see falconev dot com for info and my email
container is waiting for 2 more weeks
Tsky is a dead donkey
Andy


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Those are the new Sky Energy cells, (who also makes Thundersky cells), with an improved C rate. (TS 3C-10C, vs SE 4C-12C), not exactly ground breaking. Your price is a bit on the high side since poweredbydc.com is offering a group buy of TS cells for 1.10ah plus shipping and the new SE cells have no proven track record.


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## FalconEV (Aug 21, 2007)

buying Tsky cells now would be throwing your $ away. No matter how cheap they are. But, many need to learn the hard way. Tsky has been shut down.
They are looking for another processor for their cheapo cells


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Dude, you really need to learn how to promote your business without crapping on other people, its really not helping you in any way.

You are promoting same product that can be purchased direct from the factory, but you are buying it thru a reseller in a 3rd country ( Taiwan ) which jacks up your price and yet you find it acceptable to come in and crap on others 

If you compare your offer with Dave Kois's offer right next to yours here, and compare how both are presented, I highly doubt that you will find a single customer who will buy from you and not from Dave.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

It's true that a few years ago TS shipped some crap cells and some people got burned. However, I've seen absolutely no reports of problems with their LiFePO4 cells, and everyone I've seen say they perform to specs or better. If the cells are bad that is the fault of the manufacturer, which is the same manufacturer of the cells you are trying to sell. You can't have it both ways.


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## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words guys  

And to Falcon EV :

Those Cells come from Sky Energy
Sky Energy is a TS OEM They produce cells for TS
I have several of them here now and they did not come from Sky they came from TS
TS is in no way a "dead donkey"
Here is a pic of one on my desk and I can get them for a much better price to anyone that is interested

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
EV Components, LLC
253-988-5020


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## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

Powered By DC said:


> "
> ...I can get them for a much better price to anyone that is interested


Boy do I love capitalism!


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

jorhyne said:


> Boy do I love capitalism!


The cost to the group was approximately $1.10 per AH (plus shipping, customs, agent fees) and included all of the sizes. 40 AH, 60 AH, 90 AH, 100 AH, 160 AH, 200 AH, 260 AH.

The order also included all hardware.

If you can wait for 8-12 week to take delivery, this is the most cost effective way to buy.

We are already planning our next buy in mid to late May. 
Contact Dave Kois or James Morrison if you are interested.

[email protected]
[email protected]


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

Powered By DC said:


> Those Cells come from Sky Energy
> Sky Energy is a TS OEM They produce cells for TS
> I have several of them here now and they did not come from Sky they came from TS
> TS is in no way a "dead donkey"
> Here is a pic of one on my desk and I can get them for a much better price to anyone that is interested


The only way I can tell the difference is the posts aren't poorly covered in annodization 

Sky Energy's are the same as TS... and I did talk Sky Energy down to 1.05/AH on orders over 100 PCs not long ago


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## FalconEV (Aug 21, 2007)

Since none of you know whats really going on w TS and SE, I wont debate it.
If you love the TS cells, buy them.
My ad was for those not in the TS love group, who want an option.


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

FalconEV said:


> Since none of you know whats really going on w TS and SE, I wont debate it.
> If you love the TS cells, buy them.
> My ad was for those not in the TS love group, who want an option.


We are likely doing a Sky Energy buy also in the near future. We are trying to get the price down so that we can offer at $1.10 AH on that deal also.

Selling these at $2.00 per AH is not competitive. Most people working on an EV project plan months in advance, so they typically are fine with waiting 8-12 weeks for delivery if it can get them a much lower price.

That is what Dave Kois and I are trying to do for buyers. Plan in advance and get the lowest price possible for the LIFEPO4 batteries.

James Morrison
[email protected]

www.peakoilgarage.com (blog)


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

FalconEV said:


> Since none of you know whats really going on w TS and SE, I wont debate it.
> If you love the TS cells, buy them.
> My ad was for those not in the TS love group, who want an option.


Your ad was bashing one product, a product which has been performing well by the way, while hyping another product and misrepresenting it's capabilities, all while over charging for it. A 1C rate improvement is not groundbreaking, and the price you are charging is much too high.
Other than that, good job


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## jorhyne (Aug 20, 2008)

Nice I think you guys scared him away!


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## Jeff (Sep 25, 2008)

dimitri said:


> Dude, you really need to learn how to promote your business without crapping on other people, its really not helping you in any way.
> 
> You are promoting same product that can be purchased direct from the factory, but you are buying it thru a reseller in a 3rd country ( Taiwan ) which jacks up your price and yet you find it acceptable to come in and crap on others
> 
> If you compare your offer with Dave Kois's offer right next to yours here, and compare how both are presented, I highly doubt that you will find a single customer who will buy from you and not from Dave.


Including helping to resolve your customer's problems before they publish some preemptive stink  about their experience with you (regardless of whether the customer is a noob) is another facet in running a business:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=236&start=30
(bottom of page)

Regards, Jeff


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Well this thread went south in a hurry.

I would have actually been interested to find out what Andy knows, or claims to know about TS.....THEN we might have been able to draw some better conclusions. What would have been the harm in that?

Its not like this was a political discussion or something, its ok to show a little courtesy with topics like this.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Since the first post of the thread was misleading I'm not sure how much useful information would have been presented. At any time he could have provided documented facts to back up his claims, if he had them.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I would have still given him a chance to prove his claims. Maybe there would have been useful information and maybe not. The point is we don't know now.


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## Jeff (Sep 25, 2008)

david85 said:


> I would have still given him a chance to prove his claims. Maybe there would have been useful information and maybe not. The point is we don't know now.


David, I'm sorry about being a contributor to driving the original poster away with my critical response. 

There are a couple of EV related forums involved with group purchases of large format prismatic cells, and from folks with credibility.

It's different if you simply want performance data. Perhaps that was your goal. If you are interested in buying there are choices in the ~$1 per Ah.

I'll go quiety now.

Regards, jeff


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

david85 said:


> I would have still given him a chance to prove his claims. Maybe there would have been useful information and maybe not. The point is we don't know now.


I don't think anyone told him to leave, and if he didn't like the fact that we actually knew the real manufacturer of his cells and that he was over charging for them that's really not our fault. Were we not supposed to point that out, and potentially have some unsuspecting member get over charged for the cells? I certainly hope anytime anyone here sees something like that happening they speak up.
If something is up with SE and TS, and there does seem to be, we'll find out anyway. I just don't see how we could place much credibility on his information when he started out misrepresenting "his" product.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Here's a post from Sky Energy on their cells:
http://www.nabble.com/Sky-Energy-th...m-battery-manufacturer-for-EV-td23251023.html


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Theres nothing wrong with you calling him out if you feel something is not quite right, but I still feel that you were a little too short with him to really be sure. You could have simply asked for proof of claims. Something that anyone should ask for.

Andy could have certainly handled it much better too, but the problem is it escalated to the point where it helps no one. Its not like some one should feel the need to apologise or anything but I do feel it could have been handled a little better by both sides. I'm not trying to single anyone out.

I haven't seen any hard evidence that falconEV is a scam or vaporware house so I don't know why there seems to be hostility toward them.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I must say, thier 180Ah cells (the same dimensions and weight as T/sky's 160Ah cells!!) look very attractive for ev use, and 2000 to 3000 cycles at 80%/70% dod! if they even get close to that for real at $.35 Wh, wow I so want some!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I can only speak for myself but my "hostility" stems from the tone of his initial post and the "facts" he presented. He made a similar post on the EVDL. Photoshopping his logo on a picture of a Sky Energy battery and claiming it's something groundbreaking, while charging an unrealistic price, left a bad taste in my mouth. Purchasing Lithium batteries is a risky enough situation without muddying the waters unnecessarily. It's also somewhat foolish these days with internet access and more open communication with battery manufacturers. Technologic has been testing the Sky Energy TK cell which looks good, and Dave and James from poweredbydc are checking out the SE cell. I expect more reliable information without the hype to follow.
If FalconEV had simply said "I'm selling the newer SE cells with slightly better C rates and density from Sky Energy for $2.00ah" my only criticism would have been that the price was a bit high. I'm not sure there is any real reason for these cells to cost more than TS cells.


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> If FalconEV had simply said "I'm selling the newer SE cells with slightly better C rates and density from Sky Energy for $2.00ah" my only criticism would have been that the price was a bit high. I'm not sure there is any real reason for these cells to cost more than TS cells.


If you order 100 AH cells from TS these days, the odds are good that you will actually receive the blue Sky Energy cells. We cannot promise it. But it has happened in past orders.

All of the TS factories and Sky Energy work together for orders. Not every factory makes every size cell. So they trade with each other to complete orders.

That having been said, Dave Kois and I are working on a bulk purchase directly with Sky Energy. I believe their largest size cell is the 160 AH. They don't have the 200 AH or 260 AH cells. So if you are interested in the blue Sky Energy cells and the size you need is 60 AH, 100 AH or 160 AH then I am sure they have those. Contact Dave Kois to verify.

[email protected]

We are doing this bulk Sky Energy purchase at $1.10 per AH plus actual costs for customs, agent fees and ocean container shipping. Expect to add about 10% for those actual costs. 

James Morrison
Electric Vehicle Components LLC
[email protected]
(website under construction)


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Their Alibaba page shows a 180 SE cell and a 400 TK cell.
http://skyenergy.en.alibaba.com/


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Actually I secured a quote a few weeks ago for a 144V 180 Ah battery. Was told that 200 ah didn't exist.


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## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

Whatever Sky Energy has available in terms of sizes, that is what we can include in our bulk order. If you are interested in joining the bulk order, we expect that it will be the same as the Thundersky order. 
$1.10 per AH and it includes all of the hardware.

If you have an interest, contact Dave Kois [email protected] for details. We expect that order to go between May 15th and May 31st.

Thanks,
James Morrison
[email protected]


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