# Tesla's 'Brick' Problem



## EVDL Archive (Jul 26, 2007)

Michael Degusta, who has a $5000 deposit on a Tesla Model S, uncovers a potentially serious flaw in the company's battery design that could leave inattentive Roadster owners with a $40,000 bill or a useful vehicle.

More...


----------



## gyronut (Feb 7, 2009)

That's really a killer....


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

Follow the warranty rules and you will have no problem. I have a Leaf and it is stated not to leave my vehicle for more than two weeks unplugged if you have less than a full charge. If you have an electric vehicle you NEED to USE it. So sad too bad to those that don't follow the rules. I use mine daily and will not have that issue. If you leave for an extended period you charge it up and leave it plugged in with a proper charge station. No extension cords or leaving it for months un-plugged while taking the slow boat to Japan. Sorry it is not a killer deal. If your not going to drive it don't buy it. Simple.

Pete


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

I left mine for two weeks unplugged with a full charge. Guess what? I still had a full charge when I got home.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Isn't the leaf smart enough to have a maintenance mode too? It seems like 1/2 the price gets you 2x the engineering.

With a $40K battery pack they should have:
electronic switch to engage storage mode, user selectable and software triggered at 10% SOC.
physical switch, manually activated or triggered at 5% SOC.


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

No maintenance mode that I am aware.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

gottdi said:


> Follow the warranty rules and you will have no problem.


That's fine if the warranty is reasonable, not always plugged in when parked.

Sir, our gps records (you know we're tracking you, right?) indicate that you stopped at a 7-11 2 years ago and bought a twinkie without plugging in to charge. We have tracked your current battery issues back to that event and can, regrettably, offer you no warranty coverage.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

gottdi said:


> No maintenance mode that I am aware.


ok, thanks. Guess I heard wrong. Any idea what the resting draw on the leaf is? At least you're not running coolant pumps.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

I guess a guy had his plugged in with a 100 ft extension cord and the length of the cord was enough to reduce the power to below what was needed. Is it just me, or does that seem like a rather large resting draw?


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yeah, I don't buy that one. There must have been something wrong with the cord or a tripped breaker or it's just a cover to shift blame from some other issue.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

What a bunch of crap! As mentioned above, a low voltage cutout relay should be OEM on any electric vehicle. The only load connected across my pack is a set of resistors close to 250K ohms IIRC. It will take months or years to kill my pack that way and if you don't drive it for six months or such you probably don't need one anyway!


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

And I am quite sure you don't have the sophisticated instrumentation of the Leaf or Tesla. Knowing that it would be much easier to just shut off the whole thing. But if you need to have things Always ON then it is not such an easy issue. But in my opinion the whole article stinks of more negative press towards electric cars and much of the information is either BOGUS or very limited as to what ACTUALLY happened to cause the pack to go dead. In my testing of the LiFePO4 cells, low power draining does not kill the cell. I have cells at or nearly zero volts and they have been sitting there for at least 3 years and they are not dead. They all bounce back and work just fine. We even did a capacity check on one and it was like 98% at double the discharge rate of the cell. So I'd more say the whole article is jut BOGUS FEAR MONGERING. 

FUD at its finest. 

Pete


----------



## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

And it did not even phase the stock price today...small dip and then bounced right back.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I designed my truck knowing you don't want something to drain your batteries while parked. One thing they likely do is maintain temperatures of the pack even while parked. Heating and cooling takes a lot of energy.

Still, even though you can't idiot proof everything, something as critcal as dead pack prevention should take priority over* everything*. An electronic monitor that disconnects everything from the pack at a very low SOC is nothing to do. 

I have construction equipment that I will replace the batteries in eventually and that's exactly my plan with them. I will NOT allow the batteries to be drained to death! If the SOC to gets below a certain point the battery will be disconnected, end of story.

A shunt trip breaker or something similar will do the trick. The contacts on these are manually operated, on or off. It functions just like a breaker but with a coil inside that when energized will open the contacts.


----------



## DJBecker (Nov 3, 2010)

gottdi said:


> In my testing of the LiFePO4 cells, low power draining does not kill the cell. I have cells at or nearly zero volts and they have been sitting there for at least 3 years and they are not dead.


Remember that Tesla has shipped only Roadsters, and they all used 18650 laptop cells. Not modern LiFePO4 cells.

In laptop use the battery pack has a battery monitor to report on the SoC. Many have a series MOSFET that protects against over-current and over-discharge. So it's uncommon for the cells to experience full discharge.

I suspect that this story was written because the author needed something to write about / needed page hits. Not because it's a common problem, even among the very small population of Tesla owners.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Hey, maybe this means we can find Roadsters with bad battery packs for cheap a few years down the road, that we can then retrofit with modern packs


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

DJBecker said:


> Remember that Tesla has shipped only Roadsters, and they all used 18650 laptop cells. Not modern LiFePO4 cells.
> 
> Not because it's a common problem, even among the very small population of Tesla owners.


Just what I was going to say about the cells. 6800 laptop cells are quite different from what anyone else is using, especially compared to LiFePO4, built for EV use, cells.

I'm sure total pack death is quite rare, but from chatter on Tesla forums it seems the steady drain is quite normal and expected. It's easily reproduceable and measureable, and I could see it causing issues if you drain the pack most of the way before parking somewhere. Tesla hasn't called enough attention to it, not wanting to scare off potential buyers for an uncommon event, but not taking care of former customers can bite you too.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The owner's manual does have a warning about needing to charge once you hit 0%, or you will hurt the battery. It later mentions the battery draining at rest and says you should not leave it unplugged for over 48 hours with a charge under 15% and strongly recommends you leave it plugged in for long term storage.

It doesn't directly link the dead battery warning with the storage issue. Tesla could have saved a lot of bad press by giving the 5 individuals new batteries, and updating the software to prevent this from happening. They're obviously well aware of the issue if they're gps tracking customers to charge their cars without their knowledge.

Correction: The bit about permanently damaging the battery is not a warning, just a caution. There are apparently over 90 more serious things you should be worried about, along with around 30 other cautions to keep in mind.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Over all, I'm not surprised by the article and frankly I don't see what the big deal is. We knew from the start that there would be compromises, such as the risk of a battery not lasting much beyond 5 years if they used the 18650 cells.

If some one drove their $60k ford F350 4x4 diesel through a river and hydrolocked the engine, they too would likely have a void warranty. I think this is one of those RTFM moments if indeed there are half a dozen cases of 'bricked' cars. Besides, if you can afford a tesla, you can probably afford the battery.

The part about the car being completely immobilized seems a bit fishy to me however. If its true, I have no doubt that tesla knows a way to unlock the wheels but would rather not dispense that information. Then anyone with a piece of paper and screw driver might be able crawl under to get it - 'unstuck'


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Nobody's driven through a river though. If you left your car unplugged for 2 months, would you expect it to need 50% of it's cost in repairs?

The real issue isn't just rich people taking a $40-50K hit, it's the fact that every Tesla would have this issue if they don't fix it, even the ones designed for the 'commoners'.

The immobilized bit is obvious, if the motor is set to park, and there's no power to it, how would it get out of park? They hyped that up though because they're idiots and don't know how parked cars are usually towed.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Just to add to what you said, some might be uncomfortable with leaving something like a tesla plugged in for months at a time. I sure don't need nor have to leave my EV plugged in.

Dunno.....I can't afford one anyway so it doesn't mean much to me.


----------



## Neuman (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm curious if this scenario is common to all EVs or just the battery technology used by the manufacturers?

Do DIY available LifePO4 (?) batteries have the same behavior?


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Neuman said:


> I'm curious if this scenario is common to all EVs or just the battery technology used by the manufacturers?
> 
> Do DIY available LifePO4 (?) batteries have the same behavior?


Depends on how they design the vehicle more than anything. If the vehicle has equipment connected to the pack while shut down then yes there's an issue. 

As long as it's plugged in and power is on, with an acceptable power cord then supposedly it will be ok. Anything happens, breaker trips, GFCI receptacle shuts down, someone unplugs the cord etc, it could fail. And that's just BS for them to set this thing up like that. 

Tesla is a novice auto company but should know better. With stunts like that they're going to take a beating when enough people get burned. 

My beef is that it's totally preventable unless the cells they use self discharge. In that case there's no way around it. Prismatic cells, those common to EV DIY'ers are not like that unless damaged somehow.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Tesla is doing a terrible job with this situation IMO:

http://jalopnik.com/5887499/who-is-trying-to-smear-the-tesla-battery-problem-whistleblower


----------



## nicklogan (Feb 4, 2010)

>


Ziggythewiz said:


> Nobody's driven through a river though. If you left your car unplugged for 2 months, would you expect it to need 50% of it's cost in repairs?
> 
> If you drained the oil from your ICE engine and then ran it until it seized up, would you expect a new motor for free.?
> 
> ...


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

NISSAN recommends you use the following driving and charging habits, where possible, to help maximize the battery’s useful life:
. Avoid exposing a vehicle to ambient tem- peratures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
. Avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures below −13F (−25C) for over 7 days.
. Avoid leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge) .
. Allow the vehicle and Li-ion battery to cool down after use before charging.
. Park/store your vehicle in cool locations out of direct sunlight and away from heat sources.
. Use the normal charging or trickle charging methods to charge the Li-ion battery and minimize the use of public Fast Charge or Quick Charger.
. Allow the battery charge to be below at least 80% before charging.
. Moderate driving.
. Use of ECO mode.
. NISSAN recommends charging the bat- teries using the long life mode unless the vehicle is going to be driven a long distance. See “Charging timer” in the “CH. Charging” section.
. If vehicle will not be used for long period of time:
— NISSAN recommends charging with long life mode.
— Charge once every 3 months.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

gottdi said:


> . Avoid exposing a vehicle to ambient tem- peratures above 1208F (498C) for over 24 hours.
> . Avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures below −138F (−258C) for over 7 days.


Please tell me where these two apply, I do not want to live there!!


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Please tell me where these two apply, I do not want to live there!!


The Degree Symbol comes across as an 8 when you copy paste. Delete the 8 you see. Just a glitch from computer to web. Oh well.


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Direct from the TESLA OWNER MANUAL

Leaving the vehicle unplugged
Even when you’re not driving the vehicle, the Battery will slowly lose its charge. Therefore, when you’re not using the vehicle, you should leave it plugged in. However, situations may arise in which you must leave the vehicle unplugged for an extended time (for example, at an airport when travelling for a couple of weeks). If this is the case, it is your responsibility to ensure that the Battery does not become fully depleted. Charge the Battery to a maximum level before leaving it. Keep in mind that when the vehicle is left unplugged with a full Battery, the initial rate of decline can be significant. When fully charged, the Battery’s charge level can drop as much as 7% a day and 50% within the first week. When the Battery’s charge level falls below 50%, the rate of decline slows down to approximately 5% per week. Over-discharge can permanently damage the Battery.
If for some reason, you are unable to keep the vehicle plugged in when it is not being used, it is up to you to preserve battery life by paying attention to the charge level and the temperature (see bulleted list below). If leaving your vehicle unplugged for more than 24 hours, follow these do’s and don’ts to avoid prematurely decreasing the life of your vehicle’s Battery:

• DO leave the vehicle plugged in whenever possible.
• DO maintain at least a 15% charge level in the Battery if leaving it unplugged for more than 48 hours.
• DO charge the Battery to a full charge before leaving it unplugged. This maintains the charge level needed to keep the Battery’s electronics operational. If storing for more than 15 days, it is strongly recommended that you keep it plugged in.
• DO NOT expose an unplugged vehicle to ambient temperatures below -20°F (-29°C) or above 120°F (49°C.

Use the vehicle’s Touch Screen to determine the charge level and temperature of the Battery. For details, refer to the Touch Screen Users Manual, provided in your owners package.

Storing your vehicle
If you plan to leave the vehicle unused for longer than 15 days, it is recommended that you leave the vehicle connected to the High Power Connector and select the ‘Storage’ charge setting using the Touch Screen. When you charge the vehicle using the Storage charge setting, the vehicle is automatically kept at a reduced charge level to optimize the life of the individual cells within the Battery. Keep in mind that the reduced charge level also reduces the vehicle’s available driving range. So remember to change the setting back to ‘Standard’ before taking the vehicle on an extended drive. For details on how to select the Storage charge setting, refer to the Touch Screen Users Manual, provided in your owners package.


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Not sure why this worked and it did not work with the first cut paste? Odd


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Interesting, the degree symbol did not copy paste properly from the Nissan PDF document but worked perfectly from the Tesla PDF document. Damn computers.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

gottdi said:


> When fully charged, the Battery’s charge level can drop as much as 7% a day and 50% within the first week. When the Battery’s charge level falls below 50%, the rate of decline slows down to approximately 5% per week.


This part really concerns me. It must be really bad for the battery to be mostly charged if their storage mode holds it at 50 and leaving it full it actively runs itself down to 50.

Also, somewhere in the manual it said the BMS functions run periodically when it is plugged in to maintain them and their environment, but it seems from people talking that it actively runs all the time, so either the manual is wrong on that point, or these cells have a rediculous self discharge rate. Lead lasts longer, and certainly recovers better.


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Why be concerned. Follow the owners manual and you will not have an issue. If you truly follow the rules and have an issue I am quite sure the issue will be covered under warranty. 

Seems that many think the TESLA is some back yard hack by the sound of things here and over at EVDL. Sounds like many here and there know more than they do. What BULL CRAP. 

If you can't follow the rules you should not own one.


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Like I said before. The whole thing stinks of BULL SHIT.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/02/23/tesla-bricked-battery-story-may-have-a-short-circuit/


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

If it's BS, Tesla's being awful quiet about it.


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> If it's BS, Tesla's being awful quiet about it.


No, its more like everyone else is being extra noisy about a bunch of bull. It is what the form folks do. They hear some BS and run with it. 

It's bull.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Paraphrasing and adapting my favorite quote from revenge of the electric car:

People are really twisting this around and trying to make it sound like we messed up. The truth is...we really...well, kind of messed up.

-Elon Musk


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

gottdi said:


> Follow the warranty rules and you will have no problem. I have a Leaf and it is stated not to leave my vehicle for more than two weeks unplugged if you have less than a full charge.
> ...
> Pete





gottdi said:


> I left mine for two weeks unplugged with a full charge. Guess what? I still had a full charge when I got home.


Yes, there is very easy technical solution in basically any electric car (even diy) to this "problem", especially for EV Tesla class.
Their manual doesn't states - do not leave unplugged for 2 weeks (like on Leaf) it says - you can leave it unplugged for couple of weeks (not recommended). Drain: 50% - first week, 5% per day - after, which takes next 10 days to drain 50% of what left (to 25% total), 7+20 days - to 12.5% total.
No clear warning on 5-2 & 5-3 as it is in 9-3, suggests - this "problem" shouldn't even be there, such "teething problems" can and should be resolved immediately. Settle, rebate, insurance or other deal in such cases - whole situation will look and feel different - won't be a situation.
Now it's getting ridiculous, but their bad PR and poor handling of whole situation - casts shadow and not a good favour for EV community.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Here is Teslas response:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/plug-it

The earliest Roadsters will take over two months to discharge if parked at a 50 percent charge without being plugged in. From that starting point, Tesla has consistently innovated and improved our battery technology. For example, a Model S battery parked with 50 percent charge would approach full discharge only after about 12 months. Model S batteries also have the ability to protect themselves as they approach very low charge levels by going into a “deep sleep” mode that lowers the loss even further. A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

So, "the rumor is unfounded" because the car keeps telling itself that it's low, and we have fixed the issue for the S and the X...

And still with this confusing garbage: "A plugged-in Tesla is not only charging its battery, it is also keeping key systems within the car functioning properly."

Obviously, it's doing a lot of that crap while not plugged-in also.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

The fix for this is so simple it is trivial - and I'm sure a lawsuit or two will lead to it.

Simply have a master contactor that requires a minimum pack voltage to close, and shut off all power to all systems if voltage drops below that minimum. Then require a service call to recharge the battery, or create some bypass mechanism that only allows charging but not power use until the situation is resolved..


----------



## gyronut (Feb 7, 2009)

Nicely censored comments on the blog...


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

tesla sayes - it's only a rumor - there shouldn't be any "brick" problem... .... hmm ...
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/plug-it


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

gor said:


> tesla sayes - it's only a rumor - there shouldn't be any "brick" problem... .... hmm ...
> http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/plug-it





> In return, we ask that you remember to charge it.


They aren't getting it. It's not up to the consumers to change THEIR behavior to prevent catastrophe; it's up to the manufacturer to insure that simple negligence is not catastrophic. Building a car that let's the battery go to 100% DOD is asinine with the current battery chemistry.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Batteries will discharge just sitting on the shelf with no load. BMS will also place a small load on the pack, not really feasible to disconnect BMS. Just disconnecting the pack is not the simple solution you think it is. 

I think if someone parks their car at 50% SOC and leaves it unplugged for 1 year, that's about all you can protect for in my opinion. 



PhantomPholly said:


> The fix for this is so simple it is trivial - and I'm sure a lawsuit or two will lead to it.
> 
> Simply have a master contactor that requires a minimum pack voltage to close, and shut off all power to all systems if voltage drops below that minimum. Then require a service call to recharge the battery, or create some bypass mechanism that only allows charging but not power use until the situation is resolved..


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

etischer said:


> Batteries will discharge just sitting on the shelf with no load. BMS will also place a small load on the pack, not really feasible to disconnect BMS. Just disconnecting the pack is not the simple solution you think it is.
> 
> I think if someone parks their car at 50% SOC and leaves it unplugged for 1 year, that's about all you can protect for in my opinion.


Yes, but 1 year is quite a bit more than 2 months.

Too, I thought that LiIon did not self-discharge nearly as quickly as older rechargeable technologies?

These cars should probably all be "smart" enough to "phone home" if their batteries are dying. Putting a pre-paid cellphone in the car which texts both the owner of record and the manufacturer in such contingencies would be a small price to pay for "insurance." Simple solutions exist; manufacturers excuses are no reason not to recognize a severe vulnerability in the technology.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

If you read the article, you'd see it does phone home. 

_And from Roadster 2.0 and beyond, your Tesla can even let us know it needs your attention. If that happens, we simply contact you and suggest you charge your car._​


PhantomPholly said:


> Y
> 
> These cars should probably all be "smart" enough to "phone home" if their batteries are dying. Putting a pre-paid cellphone in the car which texts both the owner of record and the manufacturer in such contingencies would be a small price to pay for "insurance." Simple solutions exist; manufacturers excuses are no reason not to recognize a severe vulnerability in the technology.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

etischer said:


> If you read the article, you'd see it does phone home.
> _And from Roadster 2.0 and beyond, your Tesla can even let us know it needs your attention. If that happens, we simply contact you and suggest you charge your car._​


I'm speaking of a company responsibility to retrofit existing vehicles, not about the fact that they finally woke up to the fact that their design was flawed. Again, in light of the potential litigation such a sensible and inexpensive solution would cost them pennies on the dollar.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

But they've mostly fixed the issue for the S and X, so it's just a rumor that any Roadsters had this issue.


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

Tesla do have instructions on how to deal with long term storage in their owner's manual. It is on pages 5-2 and 5-3.

Although, I don't believe Tesla is at fault with the 'bricking' issue (as they do document clearly in their owner's manual), I do believe that Tesla should increase awareness with their customers on how to care for their car and batteries. There is a lot of confusion about batteries. For example, with certain chemistries, you have to worry about memory effects, whilst with others, you should plug them in at every opportunity. This is enough to confuse a lot of people.

This awareness could come in various forms like 


customer days;
videos;
club events;
newsletters;
car care tips bulletins to customers.
These awareness campaigns also helps with customer bonding and helps prevent bad publicity. 



I would even go as far as raising this awareness in the brochures so that prospective customers can plan things in advance and cater for that the fact that they may have to have their car plugged, even when in long term storage.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Those are some good ideas, but unfortunately most people don't pay attention to anything. 

The problem is similar to the one all product designers have. It is simply a waste of time to expect the consumer to take responsibility for being reasonable, and courts will rule heavily in their favor if manufacturers don't take every reasonable, and even a few unreasonable, precautions up front. This is why the damned trucks all beep when they back up (and wake you up early in the morning when the garbage truck and school bus go by). Some people are simply too stupid to look before crossing the street, and the courts will rule that if the truck had made noise it might have gotten their attention (thus ruling the maker "negligent.").

Frankly, it's a sad world we've inherited where people are not held negligent for their own stupidity, but it is what it is.


----------



## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

PhantomPholly said:


> Those are some good ideas, but unfortunately most people don't pay attention to anything.
> 
> The problem is similar to the one all product designers have. It is simply a waste of time to expect the consumer to take responsibility for being reasonable, and courts will rule heavily in their favor if manufacturers don't take every reasonable, and even a few unreasonable, precautions up front. This is why the damned trucks all beep when they back up (and wake you up early in the morning when the garbage truck and school bus go by). Some people are simply too stupid to look before crossing the street, and the courts will rule that if the truck had made noise it might have gotten their attention (thus ruling the maker "negligent.").
> 
> Frankly, it's a sad world we've inherited where people are not held negligent for their own stupidity, but it is what it is.


Law makers in the future may require Electric Cars to have a beeper and maybe a flashing light to alert people who jay walk across the road that a car is coming.

On a different note, 99.8% of Tesla Roadsters have NOT been bricked. Interesting how this statistic is not mentioned in the debate.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

CrazyAl said:


> Law makers in the future may require Electric Cars to have a beeper and maybe a flashing light to alert people who jay walk across the road that a car is coming.
> 
> On a different note, 99.8% of Tesla Roadsters have NOT been bricked. Interesting how this statistic is not mentioned in the debate.


I wouldn't attribute that to some conspiracy. That figure jibes with every other piece of hardware / software critiqued by humans. They only complain about the breaks; there are no "atta-boys!" for the successes.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

CrazyAl said:


> On a different note, 99.8% of Tesla Roadsters have NOT been bricked. Interesting how this statistic is not mentioned in the debate.


Tesla says it's just a rumor, so doesn't that mean it hasn't happened?


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

CrazyAl said:


> Law makers in the future may require Electric Cars to have a beeper and maybe a flashing light to alert people who jay walk across the road that a car is coming.


I'm pretty sure the beeping part has already been signed into law.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Maybe we could change it from a beeper to a Van de graf generator, or just a tesla coil, so when an EV passes by your hair will stand up, or you'll just get zapped to get your attention.


----------



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Maybe we could change it from a beeper to a Van de graf generator, or just a tesla coil, so when an EV passes by your hair will stand up, or you'll just get zapped to get your attention.


^^^^^

Post of the day...


----------



## Guest (Feb 29, 2012)

CrazyAl said:


> Law makers in the future may require Electric Cars to have a beeper and maybe a flashing light to alert people who jay walk across the road that a car is coming.
> 
> On a different note, 99.8% of Tesla Roadsters have NOT been bricked. Interesting how this statistic is not mentioned in the debate.



Hundreds if not thousands of people get hit by cars that DO make noise yet that is not mentioned either and yet none of the people are held liable for their stupidity. It's only those that have money that are held liable. 

My Leaf makes noise It makes noise at low speed so people can hear you coming and it even beeps on backup yet no one even turns the head to have a look to be sure they are not going to get hit. NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION TO THE NOISE. NO ONE.


----------



## Guest (Mar 1, 2012)

margaretB said:


> Electric cars -- though far from a new technology (electric cars preceded gas motors by decades) -- have become in-vogue again as an environmentally friendly alternative to typical cars. Most of these ?green? vehicles share one thing in common: They are boring. Many people would rather have a root canal than drive an electric car, but that might change if they take a spin in a Tesla.



Boring? Hardly. How many electric cars have you driven? Were they well built conversions or just old fat and sluggish golf carts with 4 doors. If so you must take a ride in a well built EV. I own a Leaf and its hardly boring. It is however a car. I feel that cars are cars. Not boring but not world shattering fun either. The Tesla Roadster is a fun Toy and would soon become boring but it can be just like any other vehicle. A car. The Tesla S is a car but a nice one. It too could be boring if you let it be boring. 

I love driving an electric car. Just knowing its electric and everyone else is sucking their wallets dry is pretty cool. Now that is the fun part. 

As for the Tesla Brick? Well if you keep it plugged in and charged and used you will not have that problem. If you really need a way to shut it off then contact Tesla. I am quite sure they are very aware of the issues. They are not a fly by night company. No back yard hack there. 

Pete


----------



## Guest (Mar 1, 2012)

margaretB said:


> They are boring. Many people would rather have a root canal than drive an electric car, but that might change if they take a spin in a Tesla.


Well how would you know you'd rather have a root canal over driving an electric car. Until you actually drive one you will never know. Even one that has similar performance of the ICE you'd be surprised at how they feel and how quiet they can be. Lots of noise is covered with engine noise. Much more than you might think. Even with an electric motor a car can be noisy but in a different way. They are smooth and quiet for the most part. They don't need to be a race car or have race car performance either. But you don't want a fat overweight lead sled to try either. Any well built electric will do. Crappy ones will just re-enforce not buying one. One thing that will make folks consider one is the price of fuel. Once they realize that they already spend a fortune on feeding the beast they will seriously consider one. 

Pete


----------



## Guest (Mar 1, 2012)

I remember when a friend purchased a jet ski. It was fun and exciting and was taken out lots the first season. It now sits in the garage doing nothing. It is a rather boring little boat. So to is the performance EV. It is fun for a season and then just becomes another vehicle. So get one that you will use all the time because it will he just another vehicle. But not terrible boring. 

Pete


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

gottdi said:


> Boring? Hardly. How many electric cars have you driven?


Most people would be quite satisfied with a boring electric car. I really started thinking of mine as a car, rather than a project, when it got to the point that I didn't think about acceleration, monitoring gauges, listening for abnormal sounds etc, but just drove it like a normal car.

I think most people here would be reluctant to let someone else drive their car regularly, because they're far from boring, they're all quite unique.


----------

