# [EVDL] Experience with Failed Soneil Chargers



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tim Kutscha wrote:
> > I installed a full bank of Soneil chargers two nights ago on my 144V
> > EV and started charging the system. When I woke up the next morning,
> > the batteries were charged, but five of the twelve chargers had
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Whoops computer went batty. Sorry if this is a repeat



> Lee Hart wrote:
> > It's hard to tell what failed.
> 
> Yes, I agree.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My Soneil charger is the high power 48v unit. I have left it on continuously for a few years now. The only two faults are the power led failed and they wouldn't fix it. Told me to return it to the retail source. The second fault was a few days ago it stopped charging and was really really hot. I unplugged it and started it up a few hours later and it is functioning again. I pull it out of the Lepton storage space now & make sure the vents aren't blocked. My four BB 50ah batteries are within hundredths of a volt. The Soneil has worked well so far for years. It doesn't matter how many chargers and batteries you have. Each battery & charger really only sees each other until the circuit is closed. I suspect the BB batteries were very close to begin with. Have always been on charge. This combo maybe the holy grail of battery charging. Constant maintenance charge. The batteries are never left sitting uncharged for long. Lawrence Rhodes.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 7 Jun 2009 at 12:22, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> 
> > This combo maybe the holy grail of battery charging. Constant maintenance
> > charge. The batteries are never left sitting uncharged for long.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This would be my guess as the Soneils I have had experience with do run hot=
. If I were to use a bunch in series I would take them out of their cases =
and mount them in a new case with forced air flow to keep them cool.

damon

> =

> I don't see any temperature sensors. Is it possible you packed all the =

> chargers tightly together, and they overheated to cause the failures?
> -- =

> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> =

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http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=3Dftp_val_wl_290
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David and I have had these discussions in the past. I'm sure it will 
come as a surprise to him that agree with his statement this time, but 
it's only because of how he worded it. "Constant maintenance chargers" 
(trickle chargers, or as I prefer, 'slow cookers') are not good for 
batteries.

However, that's not what Soneils do. (Disclosure: I am a distributor 
for Soneil chargers.)

Soneil chargers monitor the battery state of charge, and stop charging 
when the battery reaches the programmed maximum voltage. They continue 
monitoring, and when the battery reaches a trigger voltage, the charger 
starts the charging cycle again.

As for a 'holy grail' of charging, I don't think it exists. Batteries 
die of old age, overwork, and most frequently, battricide. However, 
they do die (even Edison cells). I have spent a lot of money on 
batteries on a lot of EVs over the years, and I'm still looking for 
better answers to protect my battery investments (hence my interest in 
PakTrakrsfor the past couple of years). Soneils are not a perfect 
charging solution, but they have worked better for me than anything else 
I have used (and that covers some ground).

The fact that we have now added NiCd, NiMH, Li-ion, LiPo, LiFePo4 and 
other chemistries to the mix of batteries we are using just complicates 
the 'best' charging algorithms and desired finish voltages, which makes 
mating up chargers that much more of a challenge.

Darryl McMahon
Econogics
================================================================



> David Roden wrote:
> Message: 6 Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:09:15 -0400 From: "EVDL
> Administrator" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Experience with
> Failed Soneil Chargers To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I just got word back from Electric Rider about the Soneil chargers. It turns
out that the 1214S model doesn't support series configuration anymore after
a design change by Soneil. Here's the e-mail from Electric Rider:

--------------------------------------------------------------
Tim,

Well, based on this email I sent an email to Soneil. Apparently there has a
been a design change in some of their chargers (these included) which
prevents you from being able to charge while in a "series" configuration.
This means that the half with no LED are dead. This also means you can't use
that charger type with that configuration. I apologize for this huge
inconvenience, I have no idea why they would change the design. The closest
12v Soneil charger we have that does not have this design change is the
1212SR, but it is a 5amp and is $89.95ea. We can refund your order or
replace the same value with 1212SR chargers, I'm not sure what else to offer
you. Both issues you have found have been somewhat unbelievable, I apologize
for the "luck" on this. For the electric bike application, both charger
types work great. The electric car application has a few unexpected
differences....

Thanks,
Mike

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Experience-with-Failed-Soneil-Chargers-tp23911906p23930905.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm running the Soniel 1206 3 amp on the electrabishi. About half of my 
original order are dead. I think they get hot and die from heat 
exhaustion. They don't appear to be made for long continuous use. But 
they do work, when they work. A couple lost their regulation ability, 
red light (full charge) on all the time. The other failure indication 
I got was no light at all.

Soniel said the ones I got were able to do series operation and even 
figured out that I could run between 10 and 13 of them on one 120V 15A 
circuit. But charging at 3A takes a long time. I usually bulk charge 
with the PFC-20 and then flip the Soniels on at night to top off.

Mike




> TimK wrote:
> 
> > I just got word back from Electric Rider about the Soneil chargers.
> > It turns
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Mark (and All),
Although I've posted about this before, I've been using 16 of the
Soneil 12V 1212SR chargers in the RX-7 for many years without
murdering batteries! From your EV Album page:
http://www.evalbum.com/822
It looks like you used a 24V Soneil 2404. (And later switched to
individual 12V chargers.) From the Soneil website:
http://soneil.com/Completesets/SPEC2404S.022701.pdf
The maximum voltage should be 28.8 volts, or 14.4 per battery like the
1212, so I wonder if your chargers were set wrong, or if having one
charger on two batteries was the problem?
Suck Amps,
BB


> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:02:52 +0000
> From: Mark Fisher
>
> I too had a bad experience with Soneil chargers with my first murdered pack (48v).
>
> Mark

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