# 90-Second Battery Swap Torpedoes Decades of Oil Company Propaganda Efforts



## EVDL Archive (Jul 26, 2007)

Nathaniel Downes sees Tesla's successful demonstration of a 90-second battery swap as shutting up Republican critics and their oil company funders.

More...


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

..and the associated costs also torpedo any financial case for an EV !


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Good article! That's one issue that I have a HUGE beef with on those Republicans that are anti electric. And not all of them are that way, mostly they don't want another industry with government subsidies like Sugar and others...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes, only Republicans have been supporting the Oil industry all these years...

Battery swapping is still stupid for anything but fleet usage. The accounting alone will take far more than 5 minutes per fill-up.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Battery swapping is still stupid for anything but fleet usage. The accounting alone will take far more than 5 minutes per fill-up.


Would you mind explaining that statement?

Why would it take more than a few seconds to read the RFID, barcode, key fob or credit card swipe? 

What is stupid about battery swapping? I think it is great for my hand tools. And I'd love to be able to use my EV to visit my mom who is 2 hours away down the highway. Instead I drive my pick-up truck and burn $50 of gas. If there was a BatSwap Station halfway down, that'd work great for me 

I don't know if battery swapping will be the future of EVs or not. But it certainly is a valid method to refuel the EV. We used it in racing. Years ago, we could swap 1200 lbs of Pb-Acid in the hot pit in 20 seconds. Recently with the eKart during the Indy race, we swapped 4 kWh of Lithium in 7 seconds. It works.

Personally I rather charge at home overnight and would do so even if there were BatSwap stations all over the place. But having options like fast charging or swaps may enable me to expand my EV use and rid myself of the gas burner all together. What's wrong with that


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Karter2 said:


> ..and the associated costs also torpedo any financial case for an EV !


Only if you never charge at home. Using a swap station for the occasional long trip doesn't drastically alter the operating costs for an EV.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

major said:


> Why would it take more than a few seconds to read the RFID, barcode, key fob or credit card swipe?


 I doubt it will be that straight forward unfortunately.
Remember , this is a $20k battery you are swapping. Both parties (you and Tesla) need to be sure both packs are "solid" so some basic checks need to be performed.
would you swap a suitcase with $20k inside for another "similar" suitcase from a stranger without some basic "checks" and a little formal paperwork !
This whole system seems to be based on the principle of returning to the same station to collect (and pay for) your original pack again ,which wont happen for all long trips, otherwise there will be some complex ( & expensive) battery pack shipping involved !


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Karter2 said:


> I doubt it will be that straight forward unfortunately.
> Remember , this is a $20k battery you are swapping. Both parties (you and Tesla) need to be sure both packs are "solid" so some basic checks need to be performed.
> would you swap a suitcase with $20k inside for another "similar" suitcase from a stranger without some basic "checks" and a little formal paperwork !
> This whole system seems to be based on the principle of returning to the same station to collect (and pay for) your original pack again ,which wont happen for all long trips, otherwise there will be some complex ( & expensive) battery pack shipping involved !


I think they'll have all that worked out. And the stranger is Tesla, the guy you handed over $100k to for the car in the first place. You think Bubba's corner garage is going to have the battery exchange equipment for the Model S and accept cash only?

Most people are trusting of the gasoline stations. They pull up and pump 20 gallons of an unseen liquid into their $40k automobile without a second thought. I'd think dealing with a Tesla BatSwap station would be safer than that. Tesla can't afford to be passing out bad batteries (badderies).

There is no reason the basic checks can't be done in seconds or even ahead of time. 

I guess it is because this is DIY, but there seems to be some emotional attachment to the battery. Try thinking of it like the fuel tank. What if gas stations exchanged the empty fuel tank for a full tank instead of pumping liquid? What's the big deal? It is just part of the car which nobody sees anyway. As long as it performs and functions properly, it's just another part of the car. One should be as good as any other.


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## Ampster (Oct 6, 2012)

That is a good point Major. 
Also, don't forget the NY Times rebuttal. Tesla is gathering heaps of data about each car and the battery attached to it. They have no incentive to swap a "baddery", and they have the data to prevent it.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

major said:


> Would you mind explaining that statement?
> 
> Why would it take more than a few seconds to read the RFID, barcode, key fob or credit card swipe?


 
It's not just about the initial transaction. It's about the battery having to be stored, charged, held until owner returns, if owner returns. If they do, reload the right one, If not, calculate the cost differential from their old battery to the new one (and Tesla's announcement assumes all replacement batteries are brand new and that the customer would always pay the difference. I would think once people begin using the program there will be batteries of varying age in the stock and the credit could go either way) and open the 2nd mortgage to cover the cost.



major said:


> What is stupid about battery swapping? I think it is great for my hand tools.


I hope your hand tools do not have $40k swappable batteries.



major said:


> And I'd love to be able to use my EV to visit my mom who is 2 hours away down the highway. Instead I drive my pick-up truck and burn $50 of gas. If there was a BatSwap Station halfway down, that'd work great for me


So you would pay $120-160 in swap charges to avoid $50 in gas? Ok.



major said:


> I don't know if battery swapping will be the future of EVs or not. But it certainly is a valid method to refuel the EV. We used it in racing.


Racing is not public commuting. If you own all the batts it makes sense to swap and charge offline, as I said for fleet usage where it would be ideal.

It's primarily a financial issue. Tesla will be continually trading property valued higher than most people's cars. The 'gas tax' alone on that will be a beast to address in every state. Better Place and some European OEMs have sought to address the issue by leasing the batteries, so they retain the property, but then the customer ends up paying monthly fees far in excess of what a normal person could spend on gas.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Ziggy,

Don't be ridiculous. If it can't make economic sense, then it's a non-issue because it won't happen. But there is no real reason it could not be developed into a viable solution. There may be forces that prevent it from happening, or by the time it could be implemented, the 1000 mile battery becomes available, but it is not stupid.

major


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## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

In Tesla's case they said your car is automatically
IDed when you pull into the swap station and your credit card is on file. So the swap begins in just a few seconds.


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