# E MAIL Ripperton Electric Posty Bike



## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

got this project going while I was waiting for KHB14801 but its now on hold as the R1 has priority.
This project is a dead ringer for a hub motor ($1,700) but as I already have this AC motor off EBay for $200 I will try to use it with the 2x 72v Kelly controllers from a recent abandoned Mountain Bike project.










Of course I have to modify everything I touch so the external fan goes in the bin and I made room for an internal fan.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

The 6:1 reduction is overkill as far as top speed is concerned, I will need a 36t front and rear sprocket for 1:1 chain drive ratio if I assume the motor can push this bike to 65kmh


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

k the planetary motor has been chucked and replaced with a Crystalyte 5403
which hasnt been made yet.
I tacked onto the Endless Sphere group buy and ordered 2 bare hubs.
1x 5403 and 1x 5404 for $450 each. Should be here about Christmas.


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## voicecoils (Jun 15, 2008)

Brilliant name for the electric postie bike!

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out with the hubmotor.

Another small engined, light moto which would be interesting for an electric conversion is the Sachs Madass, i'm sure you've seen it:


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

voicecoils said:


> Brilliant name for the electric postie bike!
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how it turns out with the hubmotor.
> 
> Another small engined, light moto which would be interesting for an electric conversion is the Sachs Madass, i'm sure you've seen it:


Heh I stole the name off this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2144LCxAik

Im working on a theory of having a high turn winding with high voltage controller. so you get good torque off the mark AND also relatively good top speed.
24-144V,200A,Brushless Speed Controller KHB14201-General Brushless Controller 
This Kelly should be good for $700 and finally get to use my LifeTechs LiFePo4 in a 50s 2p pack weighing 35kg


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Heres the pack which stradles the frame between seat and steering


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

voicecoils said:


> Brilliant name for the electric postie bike!
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how it turns out with the hubmotor.
> 
> Another small engined, light moto which would be interesting for an electric conversion is the Sachs Madass, i'm sure you've seen it:


I think youve got a point coils
and considering they are about the same price as a posty bike,
I think Ive just found a replacement for the venerable CT
much better looking and with a disc brake front and rear.
To engineer and reregister an electric conversion I still need to have
the rear friction brake and that is a lot easier to do if its a disc to start with


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Got the footpegs on and went for a roll down the driveway and noticed the forks are pretty piss weak, they bottom easy even without an engine in.
So better not put all the cells right up front..... means redesign the pack.










Now 50s 3p, this way get to run 5 cells in series before using a busbar.
Spread the weight (55kg) more evenly toward the rear.
Means having 2 packs mirrored on either side of the bike still removable
for charging.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

redesigning the footpegs bothered me for a long time. This is a bit ugly but does the job, will be partially covered by the pack


















Front brake duties are now assigned to the original R1 clutch lever.
The original switch has been kicking around in my toolbox for the last 9 years


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Also good news about the rear brake.
Have been talking to the Engineer who usually does our E-verts road worthyness and said as long as the rear brake can pull 0.7G during braking without locking the wheel it will pass. Doesnt have to hold the bike still either.
so probly wont have to re engineer a disc brake onto the Crystalyte.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

One more battery pack design just for good measure


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Got 2 new Crystalyte 5400 bare hubs, one 3 turn and one 4 turn off the Endless Sphere group buy.
The 4 turn is going in the posty bike and the 3 turn is being sold.
Actually had a buyer for $800 but he thinks he has found a supplier in Melbourne for about $500 so he has put the purchase on hold.
13.3kg with cast iron stator center.
already tried to pull a side cover off and it didnt budge, very tight.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

My postie mate will be pleased to see this. If you're ever sued for copyright over the name you could try Going Postal. Hang on , that was a book and tv series. With reference to the frame strength, some larger posties carry a reduced bag load to comply with the compliance plate .


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

A long dead project brought back to life as somewhere to put the 2 8kW hub motors that came out of the Mira.
The hubs were bolted together back to back but they will now go together nose to nose and have new rotor flanges made that resemble spokes, ie protrude out past the rotor back iron and support the rim. Each motor will have 3 wide spokes that are spaced apart so the 3 spokes from the other motor will fit in the spaces. A Kelly 144v 600A controller and all the old LiPo cells from the R1 2011/2012 packs.


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

So both motors will drive the rear wheel? Not going to try 2WD?  

I look forward to seeing how you go with this.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Thalass said:


> So both motors will drive the rear wheel? Not going to try 2WD?
> I look forward to seeing how you go with this.


That's not a completely insane idea and it even has some valid design advantages not so much the 2WD extra traction but more for better weight distribution and regen on the front wheel.
The little posty will be overwhelmed by the extra 40kg all being shovelled into the rear of it and only partially offset by the battery pack (50kg) in the middle of the bike.
Those 2 2WD advantages would cancel some other aspects of the RWD design like doing wheelies !! and only needing to find 1 new wheel rim and only needing one (600A) controller.
Il be getting a 13" front or rear alloy wheel from a more modern scooter and removing the hub and spokes so it can be bolted to the Hubmotor spokes. The larger case tire will better handle the weight of the motor.
In RWD all the braking will be regen as the standard front drum brake is weak at best.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Just rmbrd a friend of mine did a project using a Yamaha T-MAX rear end and still had the front wheel. Cast alloy 120/80-14. The spokes can be cut off and the rim can be machined to leave enough room for a right angled valve. The swingarm is 150mm between arms and the tire is 125mm.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Tire circumference is 1.7m and the hubs did 1300rpm on 134v.
They would do 1700rpm on 175v, that would equal about 160kmh if I have the current to push it to almost max rpm.


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

Now that I would love to see haha!


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Hub motor is coming together.
TMax rim has been machined out and single piece spoke plate fits inside nicely.


Spoke plate gets steps machined into it for rotor and rotor hub.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Then the spoke plate gets chopped up.
Theres the 115mm cutoff wheel in the back ground...."BadBoy"



And fitted to the rotor hubs


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Then the 2 rotor hubs go together nose to nose.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Stators in place.


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

And the record for the world's most overbuilt moped goes to...


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

samwichse said:


> And the record for the world's most overbuilt moped goes to...


Thanks Sam !


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## midaztouch (Mar 28, 2011)

Like I said before, your a bad man! It looks good!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

Just make sure you post a video of popping wheelies on this thing


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Going well so far with the mounting of the TMax rim onto the spoke plate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAmNmFKu1lw&list=UUoOd7A2JVRmeuaEfGbO7f_g&index=1


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

The template made from black 3mm nylon had to be made 3 times so that the distance between the pilot holes made for 12 equal spaces around the inner surface of the rim. Turned out 88mm was spot on.
Will use M6 dome head screws and then seal them off with a band of inner tube placed like rim tape glued to the rim to seal air in. Want to keep using the tubeless tire and valve.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Fitted the rotor to the stator and it scuffed a bit so I put the stators on the lathe to see how true they were and being Chinese they were a bit out.
It wasn't just the whole stator being eccentric to the stub axle, the laminations were a bit warped.
Instead of using a normal metal cutting tip which would have spread the laminations I used my old brake disc grinder and partially resurfaced the tooth area.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Having to design a new adjustable hall sensor bracket I noticed that there was a detectable polarity 45 degrees off to the side of the magnet meaning I didn't have to lodge the sensor in the stator lamination but just outside it.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

RIPPERTON said:


> Instead of using a normal metal cutting tip which would have spread the laminations I used my old brake disc grinder and partially resurfaced the tooth area.


That will increase the eddy current losses. It negates the lamination surface resistance on the O.D. Looks like a high pole count so frequency in the stator teeth may be pretty high. You have any temperature indicator paint you could apply to see how hot they get?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

major said:


> That will increase the eddy current losses. It negates the lamination surface resistance on the O.D. Looks like a high pole count so frequency in the stator teeth may be pretty high. You have any temperature indicator paint you could apply to see how hot they get?


I thought it would have some effect as you pointed out but getting it to turn freely is probably a priority so Il have to apply a bit of bush mechanic code.
In the Mira these motors ran very cool as they are open with means to propel the air through them and across the magnets. I will have a laser thermometer pointed at the windings and stators when it gets running.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Heres the Hall Sensor bracket with one sensor epoxy'd in.


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## agniusm (Apr 30, 2012)

Wicked build. Especially on the motor. Dont you think with that power frame can fall apart ?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

agniusm said:


> Wicked build. Especially on the motor. Dont you think with that power frame can fall apart ?


Ive got a good welder


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

It runs !
So this demonstrates that you can position a hall sensor outside of the stator core and it will still be close enough to sense the magnetic fields of the magnets.
The rotor is a bit eccentric and this could produce vibration at speed but like I said before theres an element of "bush" in this build as I just want to get it running and on 175v and 600 A it could just be the worlds fastest posty ? and the worlds roughest.
Next is to shim the rim to the spokes and seal it so it will hold air and then build another 80v pack using the flogged out 2012 LiPo cells from the R1 and put it in series with the one Ive already built (photo later).
The 2 identical packs will be attached to either side of the frame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF_ZyWqxj1E&list=UUoOd7A2JVRmeuaEfGbO7f_g&index=1


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## agniusm (Apr 30, 2012)

What are those donor hubs you're building into double trouble?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

agniusm said:


> What are those donor hubs you're building into double trouble?


http://www.hs-escooter.com/sdp/1012...Hub_Motor_single_shaft_hub_motor_Electri.html


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