# Brands of Batteries available in Australia



## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

Hey DVR, sound's like you're at the same place as me.

I've emailed Shaun Willams a couple of times about batteries and his information isn't inspiring. His electric-echo site says

90Ah Deep Cycle lead acid1,690.00 Supplied by Apollo Batteries

and his advice for my 1989 Pulsar was along the lines of "you'll need to cram about 350kg worth of batteries into that little Nissan, which I doubt will be legal..."

He gets about 20km of highway driving using these batteries and has to recharge at work before driving home. I need double that range, so I'm having to hold my breath and look at li-ions. At this stage, it's looking like $US6,000 plus freight + Battery Management System. OUCH 

It looks like Everspring are the importer of ThunderSky Li-ions, but they only have a 360 day warranty. Last I heard these ThunderSky batteries were being treated with caution - anyone heard anything new about Thundersky's? Did they live up their marketing hype?


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> I've emailed Shaun Willams a couple of times about batteries and his information isn't inspiring. His electric-echo site says
> 
> 90Ah Deep Cycle lead acid1,690.00 Supplied by Apollo Batteries
> 
> and his advice for my 1989 Pulsar was along the lines of "you'll need to cram about 350kg worth of batteries into that little Nissan, which I doubt will be legal..."


Yeah that kind of bland response is really useless. I know that guys like Shaun are under no obligation to be helpful, but their sites give you the impression that they want to.

What I found "particularly interesting" was the pathetic response I got from EVPOWER! I told them specifically that I wanted an individualised quote on LIPO's and everything that i would need to charge and maintain them plus freight. His respone was, 

quote *"Cost for batteries, BMS, charger and fuel gauge would be in the range of $10-$20k"* unquote!!!

I replied to him and indicated that that isnt good enough and he responed with "*$15-18K"*

Oh gee thanks!? real professional, it's the kind of thing that engenders trust innit?

On the flip side if you think your gonna go with lipo's talk to Trev at FOUNDRY AND FIBERGLASS

http://thebackshed.com/foundryandfibreglass/

Brilliant bloke, VERY helpfull, and he actually encoureged me to ask questions and seem to know what he’s talking about. Although he did suggest that I would need 200ah batts to get 80-100kms in a 98 Holden (opel) Vectra with a FB1-4001A. Seems a little steep since KIWIEV is expecting to get maybe 75 km from only 85ah and I recon a Tredia and a Vectra would be pretty similar weightwise.

Anyway, keep looking and post what you decide on or find out.


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

How much does the vectra weigh before conversion?

My Pulsar is 1,450kg. I'm so desperate to get a decent range I'm even thinking about filling the tyres with Helium instead of air to reduce weight.

Ultimately, I think I'm resigned to spending on the Li-ions because I need 50km on a single charge, even though I'm only doing 70km/h. I know Shaun's Echo won't do even half that (because he does 110km/h for 15km to work) and Gavin doesn't need that kind of range in NZ...

Maybe I'll be the one to take the plunge and you'll all be waiting with bated breath to hear how well they work??


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> How much does the vectra weigh before conversion?
> 
> My Pulsar is 1,450kg.


Are you sure thats the kerb weight and not the Gross weight? A 98 cd Vectra weighs around 1300Kgs unlaiden

I recon the pulsar is a smaller car


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## the gas wizard (Apr 19, 2008)

hey fellas. i'm in the same boat too! this is a number of a battery company in sydney but they have branches all over the place. they sell 6volt 250ah batteries with around [email protected] and they weigh 18kgs. i'm doing a 48volt town car and these should give a fair range i hope

good luck


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

the gas wizard said:


> hey fellas. i'm in the same boat too! this is a number of a battery company in sydney but they have branches all over the place. they sell 6volt 250ah batteries with around [email protected] and they weigh 18kgs. i'm doing a 48volt town car and these should give a fair range i hope
> 
> good luck


Questions:
1. What is the company name/phone number?
2. 6v 250Ah - does this mean you need 20 batteries to make 120v? At 18kg each thats 360kg being added to the car = not practical. That's like saying obese people are healthier because just walking is a gym workout because of the weight they're carrying.

Unless there's a different way of obtaining the volts? Which is highly possible since I know nothing about electronics.

3. What range is your 48v town car? I need 45km = 28 miles before recharge. Minimum.

4. How much do those 6v 250Ah batteries cost?


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## O'Zeeke (Mar 9, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> My Pulsar is 1,450kg. I'm so desperate to get a decent range I'm even thinking about filling the tyres with Helium instead of air to reduce weight.


 BRILLIANT, jkaswell. I have to check out the amount of lift/volume. Maybe hydrogen would provide more lift but i think it leaks out faster.


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> Questions:
> 
> 2. 6v 250Ah - does this mean you need 20 batteries to make 120v? At 18kg each thats 360kg being added to the car = not practical. That's like saying obese people are healthier because just walking is a gym workout because of the weight they're carrying.


How much weight can you remove from the car?
Engine, exhaust, starter, fuel tank, AC (if you can live without it), alternator, radiator?
Buy lighter rims and rotors...depending on your budget...

In my 97 escort I'm hoping to remove 550 lbs, I'm also planning on using a 96 volt system which requires less batteries.


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## the gas wizard (Apr 19, 2008)

sorry i'm an idiot. i left the message with no details 
the company name is Best Batteries and the phone number is 02 9729 2288
i should be able to have that range no worries. lead batteries get heavy if you want good ones! the GM EV1 had 1100lbs of lead acid batteries in it with a 80-100mile range and it could do 85 mph!


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Putting helium in tyres is an olg gokart racing trick, Doesnt really change the weight of the vehicle as gokarts have min weight restrictiond and are wieghed regularly. Helium helps the tyre build heat quicker in cold weather and doesnt increase the pressure inside the tyre as heat builds. It also leak out a lot faster cos it has a very tiny molocule compared to Air. Hydrogen is worse and because it permeates the pressure vessel it tends to make it brittle


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

There's got to be a method for charting the options here. Has anyone come across an evaluation of what battery/controller/motor/weight combinations will achieve a certain range?

The range formula must be something like:

# of batteries x volts / (weight x engine rating x average speed)

something like distance = (speed x time)/(fuel x consumption rate)

This graph is something I mocked up quickly using imaginary numbers. You can see higher range means higher weight and cost, but I need data from actual users to flesh it out. Is it worth circulating a questionnaire?


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

Check out the EValbum for a tonne of info to work out a formula; I think the battery to vehicle weight ratio would be the most important factor...Or wh/mile and pack energy. It would be a good resource if you worked it out.


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> There's got to be a method for charting the options here. Has anyone come across an evaluation of what battery/controller/motor/weight combinations will achieve a certain range?
> 
> The range formula must be something like:
> 
> ...


Its almost impossible because of so many other variables....

Driver habits (lead foot, slow and steady, somewhere in between) Terrain (uphill vs downhill), Starts and Stops.... do you get to cruise at 25-30mph or do you hit 6 stops signs in a 1 mile stretch.....


http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/

Thats fun to play with... Haven't built mine yet, so I don't know how close it is...


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Jlsawell,
Curb weights for an N13 Pulsar are listed as 1020kg for the GL, 1025kg for the GX, and 1035kg for the Q with the auto versions being 20kg heavier. Your ICE I would guess would be about 120kg. An FB1-4001A weighs about 65kg. If the 1450kg you quoted is the GVWR your standard payload for a GL would be 430kg. Difference in motor weight could give you about another 50kg to bring your available payload up to 480kg. Aussie design rule state a minimum of 81.6kg allowance per passenger. Limiting the vehicle to two passengers would allow the installed weight of the other equipment to be about 315kg. You could achieve a larger weight allocation by changing some non structural parts of the car for lighter fibreglass items such as guards, bonnet, and bumper outer and changing the wheels for lighter alloy items and removing some of the vehicles sound deadening materials.


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## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

MrCrabs said:


> http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/


The calculator is good, however it uses battery names, without giving the volts or Ah (specs). I don't think any of the batteries there are available in Australia. If the specs were used instead - we would be able to find a battery with the matching specs at a price in our own currency...

That's why I want to try and chart ah * v * (variables) = range. If you look at the calculator, the different gear displays aren't that useful either. There just isn't that much difference. 

It would be good if I could plug in something like:

Motor: Warp 9
Battery v: 12
Battery Ah: 100
No. of Batteries: 12
Controller: Zilla 2k
Total weight; 1,500kg / 3,300lb

And get a range result like:

60kmh / 40mph 75 kmh/60mph
48km / 30m 35km / 21m

That way I can go and price 12 x 12v 100ah batteries locally, rather than trying to import a battery that's specified on the calculator's list...


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

If you click on the "details" below the battery it shows you the specs.
If shows voltage, weight, Puekerts exponent, Puekerts capacity and internal resistance.

And if you go to the Battery calculator page http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/?s=b you can figure out the puek. exp and cap. based on the specs you find for your potential batteries.

The reason for such complexity is that you can't always pull 100 Ah out of a 100 Ah battery. You could pull 1A for 100 hours, but if you pulled 50 A it would last less than 2 hours.

If you want to enter your own car specs, click on details under the car selection box and you can change any of the parameters.


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## MrCrabs (Mar 7, 2008)

mattW said:


> Check out the EValbum for a tonne of info to work out a formula; I think the battery to vehicle weight ratio would be the most important factor...Or wh/mile and pack energy. It would be a good resource if you worked it out.


I read somewhere on this forum a rule of thumb someone posted...

If using Lead-Acid batteries, you get 2 miles for each % of the total vehicle weight that is made up of batteries. In math terms: range = 2 miles * 100 * (battery weight / total weight)
So according to this page http://www.ka9q.net/ev/questions.html the EV1 was %40 battery by weight, and GM claimed an 80 mile range, but the author of that page said he would keep it under 50 miles.

Playing around with the EV calculator, I can get my escort to ~3000 lbs total, with 768 lbs of that being batteries. That would be %25 battery weight and a 50 mile range. EV Calculator says I could get 40ish at 80 %DOD and 50ish at 100% DOD, both at 30 mph.

Anyone know why EV Calculator has a 1 for the incline by default? I would imagine most EVs go home->work->home so if its uphill 1 way, its downhill the other...


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## zacknolden (May 2, 2008)

They provide the exact solution to your battery needs whilst providing their agents.
_______________________________________________
Hit the Road with Autopartswarehouse


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

zacknolden said:


> They provide the exact solution to your battery needs whilst providing their agents.
> _______________________________________________
> Hit the Road with Autopartswarehouse


??? who, what where?????


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

What about BMS then? So far the only Aussie suppliers I've found for BMS has been EVPOWER and Foundry & FIBERGLASS. Both of these systems are for lithium and I would like to have them even if I run AGM's. the thundersky unit that Foundry & Fiberglass supply looks way cool though with it's 8" touch screen, $3,500 tho!!!

The only U.S. supplier that seems suitable is HOTJUICE's BEQ1. This thing looks brilliant and just what I will want on my batts. Unfortunately they don't ship outside the U.S. 
BUMMER


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