# Everspring.net: A source for ThunderSky.



## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Hello all, I thought I might share with you my contacts with Peter Lee at Everspring Global. Each reply will include my email and Peter's reply.



> Hello,
> 
> I am interested in Thunder Sky's Lithium Ion batteries. I found your website by doing a search for the batteries. I am an Electric Vehicle enthusiast and hobbiest. A group of my friends and I are researching pricing and availability of lithium ion batteries for various conversion projects. I was wondering if you can send me a price list on your LFP and LCP series of batteries, and advise if you offer bulk discounts on battery purchases. Also, can you advise on the status of Thunder Sky's warranty and replacement service? We are trying to determine if the quality control problems reported by several customers are being addressed by Thunder Sky.
> 
> ...


Peter's reply:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> You know all those stories are part fact and part fiction. Like all products, there will be issues. It's how we handle the problems which makes a product successful or not...it's not if the product is 100% problem free - there is no such things.
> 
> ...


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

2nd email:


> Thanks for the info Peter. At your prices, I'm estimating approximately $9500 for my 144V battery pack (which is reasonable). Do you have a distribution point here in the United States, or are the batteries shipped directly from China? Also, are the cells tested or conditioned prior to shipping to ensure they are in working order?
> 
> Greg


Peter's Reply:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> We ship all the cells directly to the US from China. Let me have you delivery address so our Admin can work out the shipment cost.
> 
> ...


Peter's 2nd reply to same email:


> Hi Greg, [FONT=宋体]
> I made two copies of PI for your selection, please see attached proforma invoices(one is by sea, the other is by air).
> 
> Best regards,
> Administrator




He attached shipping quotes as well:

$350 for 30 days be sea to the nearest port.

or

$1047 for 10 days by air to the closest international airport

Thought you all might find that useful.




[/FONT]


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey Thanks for the info. are you planning on buying some from them? i can't decide if i should go with thundersky or lionev...i hear good things from both and i hear bad things from both...but i have never really seen 100% successful lithium pack. i would like to see somone with lithium post how much $, what batteries, top speed, acceleration, and range. and show some proof


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## onesojourner (May 6, 2008)

Those prices seem to be much better than any where else I have seen. is any one actually using these batteries?


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

There is a video on YouTube about Bob Siebert's AC conversion (many of you may have already seen this):

Linky

He's experienced a 20% failure rate on the batteries, but the other 80% work great...so now he's using a battery pack with 2 different kinds of batteries.

I'm thinking of risking it and going with their batteries for my Pontiac Vibe conversion, to begin next spring. I've also thought of becoming a ThunderSky Dealer, but the prices would be higher than what Everspring advertises, since I'd have to cover shipping/testing. I'd want to test out all the batteries and provide replacements if there were failures. All the necessary equipment and inventory would make the overhead much higher than direct shipping from China. However, if their quality control comes up, that might be non-issue. I just don't know if there's a big enough market here for their batteries to justify opening a distributorship (assuming I can form a business agreement with ThunderSky).

There seems to be an understanding with Chinese manufacturing that there will be an "acceptable" high percentage of products that don't meet design standards. Here in the U.S., we might expect a rate of .01% or less manufacturer defects, whereas China might say a rate of 15-20% is acceptable. That said, I've own plenty of products made in China that have worked fine for years. But the kind of investment that Li-Ion batteries pose make the possible 20% failure rate unacceptable.

Since shipping is so expensive on such a heavy item, and since the batteries are so expensive to begin with, I'd rather not order 20% more than I really need to cover any defective cells.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Another thing to consider is this: The discount goes up on larger quantity buys. My discount for a 144V 90Ah pack is 7%. But if we ordered a few more cells, the discount goes up...we could arrange a group purchase. Shipping is likely to go up, but probably not proportionately, so we'd save there too. Just food for thought at this point, since I'm not ready to order yet


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## onesojourner (May 6, 2008)

I think a group buy would be great. I would not be joining but for those that want them now is the time.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

Uncle Joseph, i've also owned products from china that have lasted for years, but i've also had many things recalled that i had bought for my nephew. they have had alot of things recalled lately. i agree that 20% is too much of a risk. and so much for that warranty, Bob sure didn't get his. thats alot of money to spend and not have somone keep up their half of the deal.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

I'm going to look into setting up a business arrangement with ThunderSky. If the mark-up is sufficient (i.e. a dealer can get them way cheaper than the average consumer), then it still might be fruitful for a businessperson to start a relationship with them. The problem is that I don't speak any of the various dialects of Chinese...all I can sale is "hello" in Mandarin (maybe that would get my foot in the door ).

However, setting up a business arrangement will take a lot of time and money. I'll have to research the market here first. I know it exists...lots of people want to get in on affordable Li-Ion. So far, ThunderSky has the best prices (direct). I'd have to be able to purchase (as a business) batteries at sufficient discounts to honor the warranty here. Meaning that I'd have to stock enough properly functioning batteries for replacements if customers needed them. If my relationship was good enough with ThunderSky, then perhaps they'd honor their own warranty with my theoretical company. Shipping defective cells back to them would be a waste of money, and I'd have to build in recycling costs on the defectives.

I've looked at LionEV's cells and the look remarkably similar to ThunderSky. I wonder if they're already doing exactly what I'm proposing here. There is another company out there whose batteries look just like ThunderSky and LionEV. I suspect that many of these Li-Ion battery suppliers are marketing nothing more than re-badged imported cells, from ThunderSky or other similar manufacturers. Places like LionEV are big enough to house a large stock of batteries and test them prior to usage.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

It appears that International Battery, Inc. already does what I just proposed...I'll be contacting them! Although, there website shows no affiliation with ThunderSky (ThunderSky's website shows affiliation with them) that I can find. I just emailed Helena Lyczek regarding consumer purchases. Further review of their website shows that they produce battery solutions for military and industrial applications. If they do provide solutions for EV converters, I'm wondering what their prices will be.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

international battery inc has a factory right here in pa.,allentown specifcally.i contacted their sales rep about battery prices.$3.25us per amp hour.thats $325 for a 100 ah battery.they claim the batteries are manufactured at the allentown facility.also bob sieberts batteries were not the lifepo chemistry.hope this helps.


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

$325 for a 100AH battery? Hov many volts, what chemistry, style, shape, etc...? Details please!


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

If you do set up business with thundersky I would try and get an office near the factory in China and pay someone who lives over there to do a second round of more vigorous tests before they even get shipped. That way you can still return faulty cells and you aren't paying to ship them and recycle them. I remember someone in europe on the EVDL was talking about doing that. It would also mean that you could ship direct to other countries (such as australia =P) for people who want that added level of security when buying their pack.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

jukka jarvinen of FEVT was buying direct from thundersky and had an office in thundersky's building for awhile.FEVT is now attempting to produce the batteries in finland under license from thundersky,i haven't read of any more progress on that front.the $325 100ah battery i spoke of is 3.2v.i already have pricing for the same size battery direct from thundersky at $200.zuhai can beat that price at $170(no minimum order).but i am waiting to see if they will back up a failed cell.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> international battery inc has a factory right here in pa.,allentown specifcally.i contacted their sales rep about battery prices.$3.25us per amp hour.thats $325 for a 100 ah battery.they claim the batteries are manufactured at the allentown facility.also bob sieberts batteries were not the lifepo chemistry.hope this helps.


See, that's what I don't get. How does ThunderSky show Internationaly Battery, Inc. under their Production Base heading. Does that mean International Battery, Inc. is manufacturing batteries for ThunderSky (unlikely)? I'm sure some of the meaning is lost in the Chinese/English translation. I have not yet heard from the Sales Rep at International Battery, Inc.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

mattW said:


> If you do set up business with thundersky I would try and get an office near the factory in China and pay someone who lives over there to do a second round of more vigorous tests before they even get shipped. That way you can still return faulty cells and you aren't paying to ship them and recycle them. I remember someone in europe on the EVDL was talking about doing that. It would also mean that you could ship direct to other countries (such as australia =P) for people who want that added level of security when buying their pack.


Yeah, I read the same conversation on EVDL, which is what gave me the idea. I haven't heard enough new information to suggest they have overcome their production defects to an satisfactory level. However, it appears that almost all of Jukka Jarvinen's conversions listed on EVAlbum us ThunderSky's battery packs. I suppose they can't be that bad...

I'm not yet sold on Everspring, unless we can get enough people to do a group buy, so that we can order 10-20% more than we need to be safe. However, we could still end up with a whole pallet full of bad batteries. Maybe I'll take the chance for all of us in the end anyway, but I need to do more research.

What I need to do is find someone in China who can perform charge/discharge tests on the batteries prior to purchase from ThunderSky, who can them ship them by boat. I just don't happen to know anyone in China...let alone anyone near the ThunderSky factory.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> $325 for a 100AH battery? Hov many volts, what chemistry, style, shape, etc...? Details please!


You can check all their specs on current production batteries on their website at International Battery, Inc.

No price list yet.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> international battery inc has a factory right here in pa.,allentown specifcally.i contacted their sales rep about battery prices.$3.25us per amp hour.thats $325 for a 100 ah battery.they claim the batteries are manufactured at the allentown facility.also bob sieberts batteries were not the lifepo chemistry.hope this helps.


Was that for Lithium Cobalt Oxide cells or Lithium Iron Phosphate, or does it not matter? That seems pretty steep compared to the prices from Thundersky, even with shipping and some bad cells figured in.


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

that was for lifepo batteries.i didnt ask about the lico because those were the ones they had a 20 percent failure rate.i told the sales rep thundersky was undercutting them by a large margin and he said "yeah,but try and get them to honor a warranty".


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

Uncle Joseph said:


> It appears that International Battery, Inc. already does what I just proposed...I'll be contacting them!


International Battery has not replied to any of my emails...I'll be calling them soon to see what they say (if they answer the phone or talk to me).


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## pandrewb (May 12, 2008)

*News from International Battery*

I just spoke to Don at International Battery (Don 201-405-1200) He reports that they have their own factory that started production two weeks ago. They have taken the Thundersky technology and have " Made improvements " in product and manufacturing. He tells me that perhaps in 6 months they will have the capacity and distribution that will allow them to sell to individuals. 

Maybe your propsed group could get some sooner. Good Luck. Its the same old story. He also said that there is alot more activity in europe and that we should be looking there for companies that provide systems with BMS, chargers and cooling boxes.

Andrew - Spokane


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## pandrewb (May 12, 2008)

*Ningbo TS vs. Shenzhen*

does anybody think that there is a quality difference between the batteries that come out of the different factories ?


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