# [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

other than getting a used mechanical meter like is attached to your
house (and you need to buy a meter base for it ~$40?), this is the
next cheapest thing I have found:

http://ekmmetering.com/EKM_Metering/120V,_External_CT_Meter.html#2

I want one, I dont have one yet either.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hialeah meter company. About $25 for the meter and $14 for a socket, IIRC.

Z



> Joel Sell <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my
> > 120v AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joel,
I was successful at finding a utility electric meter on eBay for $15
(several available now) and mounted it in a plastic box from Home Depot. I
wired it in series and it has worked great.



> Joel Sell <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my
> > 120v AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A very simple way to get a meter, is to go the the meter shop at your local 
power company. Many of the power companies are replacing the older meters 
with a remote reading type.

Then if the local power company dos not supply the meter base any longer, 
then get a purchase order from them to get a meter base from a wholesale 
electrical supply company.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel Sell" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:48 AM
Subject: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?


> Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my 
> 120v AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be 
> something that I can plug in and take out, and something that doesn't cost 
> me an arm and a leg. I'm finding some online, but most of them cost more 
> than $100, and I was hoping to spend less than $25.
> Thanks,
> Joel in Philly
>
>
>
>
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 8 Jan 2009 at 7:48, Joel Sell wrote:
> 
> > Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my 120v
> > AC outlet?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joel,
There=B4s a unit called a "Kill A Watt". They cost about $35. Only =

good for a max. of 15 amps though. Mine is a model P4400. Maybe they =

make ones that can handle more amps. Mine has a digital readout and =

shows any one of the following: voltage, amps,watts, Hz and Kwh.
Tom


> Joel Sell wrote:
> > Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my =
> 120v AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be some=
> thing that I can plug in and take out, and something that doesn't cost me a=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Actually they do more than 15 amps, but they have an alarm that starts at 15
amps...I think I've gotten it to about 2200 watts

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Tom Coddington <[email protected]>wrot=
e:

> Joel,
> There=B4s a unit called a "Kill A Watt". They cost about $35. Only
> good for a max. of 15 amps though. Mine is a model P4400. Maybe they
> make ones that can handle more amps. Mine has a digital readout and
> shows any one of the following: voltage, amps,watts, Hz and Kwh.
> Tom


> > Joel Sell wrote:
> > > Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my
> > 120v AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be
> > something that I can plug in and take out, and something that doesn't cost
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Is there an equivalent of the killawatt for 220 volts?

Eduardo Kaftanski
[email protected]
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Coddington <[email protected]>

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:48:27 =

To: <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]=
u.edu>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?


Joel,
There=B4s a unit called a "Kill A Watt". They cost about $35. Only =

good for a max. of 15 amps though. Mine is a model P4400. Maybe they =

make ones that can handle more amps. Mine has a digital readout and =

shows any one of the following: voltage, amps,watts, Hz and Kwh.
Tom


> Joel Sell wrote:
> > Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my =
> 120v AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be some=
> thing that I can plug in and take out, and something that doesn't cost me a=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Brand Electronics is the (much) higher quality alternative to the Kill-A-
Watt, and is fairly well known in AE circles. They make a "whole house" kWh 
meter, model 20-CTR, which handles 240v and up to 40a. Presumably this is 
for a PV home, not a grid home, as most grid homes these days have 200 amp 
panels. 

Brand make a different kWh meter for that application, the "One Meter."

http://www.brandelectronics.com/

If you don't need or want Brand's fancy features, though, a regular old-
fashioned mechanical kWh meter will be WAY cheaper.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > Brand Electronics is the (much) higher quality alternative to the
> > Kill-A-
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have a Kill-a-watt meter as well. I was using it until it started
melting. pulling over 10 amps (but less than 14, on a 20A circuit 3ft
from the breaker box) for 4 hours makes it heat up to where the case
starts melting away from the plug areas.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I guess it depends on operating temperature...




> Jon Glauser <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I have a Kill-a-watt meter as well. I was using it until it started
> > melting. pulling over 10 amps (but less than 14, on a 20A circuit 3ft
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have frequently seen heat-damaged cords and equipment.
Those were seldom from over-current, mostly what I found
were that the pins or the plug in which it was plugged
were corroded, so that too high resistance caused a much
larger than usual power loss, heating up the contacts and
occasionally causing spontaneous dis-assembly.
Check the wall plug into which you plugged your device
for clean contacts. Make sure to turn off the circuit.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jon Glauser
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:27 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?

I have a Kill-a-watt meter as well. I was using it until it started
melting. pulling over 10 amps (but less than 14, on a 20A circuit 3ft
from the breaker box) for 4 hours makes it heat up to where the case
starts melting away from the plug areas.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

BTW,
For several years I have used a Kill-a-Watt alike
device rated at 13A AC to monitor my 3000Wp solar
system, grid-connected via a 2500W 230V inverter
which could easily send over 11A back into the grid.

The way to convert such a meter to a feed-back
meter is by swapping one of the pairs that measures
either voltage or current (=voltage across a known
resistor)

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:50 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?

I have frequently seen heat-damaged cords and equipment.
Those were seldom from over-current, mostly what I found
were that the pins or the plug in which it was plugged
were corroded, so that too high resistance caused a much
larger than usual power loss, heating up the contacts and
occasionally causing spontaneous dis-assembly.
Check the wall plug into which you plugged your device
for clean contacts. Make sure to turn off the circuit.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jon Glauser
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:27 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?

I have a Kill-a-watt meter as well. I was using it until it started
melting. pulling over 10 amps (but less than 14, on a 20A circuit 3ft
from the breaker box) for 4 hours makes it heat up to where the case
starts melting away from the plug areas.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It is recommended to use a receptacle and plug combination that is rated for 
the amount of time it use.

A residential receptacle for living rooms and bedrooms can be rated for 1.5 
amp continuous duty. This is a cheaper type devices.

The kitchen and bathroom can be rated for 5 amp continuous duty.

There should be a single dedicated circuit to the refrigerator, freezer and 
wash machine a similar items on specification rated receptacles which may be 
5 to 15 amp continuous rated.

Shops with a single device plug in all the time that draws 15 amps should be 
a industrial rated receptacle. Very heavy duty that is rated for a 5 lb 
pull out. These receptacles are normally a 120 vac 20 amp type with a 1.25 
percent service factor, meaning that this type of receptacle can pull 16 
amps continuous on a 20 amp device and circuit.

The industrial grade are the same as hospitals grade which is identified 
with a green dot. In these areas, there is in house safety inspectors that 
test these receptacles before any equipment is plug into it.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?


> I have frequently seen heat-damaged cords and equipment.
> Those were seldom from over-current, mostly what I found
> were that the pins or the plug in which it was plugged
> were corroded, so that too high resistance caused a much
> larger than usual power loss, heating up the contacts and
> occasionally causing spontaneous dis-assembly.
> Check the wall plug into which you plugged your device
> for clean contacts. Make sure to turn off the circuit.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Jon Glauser
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:27 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?
>
> I have a Kill-a-watt meter as well. I was using it until it started
> melting. pulling over 10 amps (but less than 14, on a 20A circuit 3ft
> from the breaker box) for 4 hours makes it heat up to where the case
> starts melting away from the plug areas.
>
> -Jon Glauser
> http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
> http://www.evalbum.com/555
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I wired my garage with 2 120v outlets on separate sides of the
entrance box so there is 240v across the hot leads.
I then wired a meter that would plug into it. I have both 120 and 240v
outlets in series with the meter.
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/2008/07/energy-consumption.html

My first Killawatt was replaced as defective, the replacement now
gives crazy readings. I wouldn't recommend it. Others seem to be
having better luck.


-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm going to hazard a guess here that the problem is not with the 
"KillaWatt" meter, but with your jury-rigged method of wiring the 240V. 
Please, listers, do NOT
wire for 240V in this fashio - it is not safe, and could be a fire hazard!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "storm connors" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?


>I wired my garage with 2 120v outlets on separate sides of the
> entrance box so there is 240v across the hot leads.
> I then wired a meter that would plug into it. I have both 120 and 240v
> outlets in series with the meter.
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/2008/07/energy-consumption.html
>
> My first Killawatt was replaced as defective, the replacement now
> gives crazy readings. I wouldn't recommend it. Others seem to be
> having better luck.
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> I'm going to hazard a guess here that the problem is not with the 
> "KillaWatt" meter, but with your jury-rigged method of wiring the 
> 240V. Please, listers, do NOT
> wire for 240V in this fashio - it is not safe, and could be a fire 
> hazard!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [email protected]

HUH? Why would this be a fire hazard? a 220 circuit is just two breakers 
one on each side and both sets of wires run to the destination plug.
Construction workers have used this to run table saws, you can actually 
buy this ready made.

Electrically this is the same.

It is actually legal to take two circuits and replace the breaker and 
the plug at the other end(as long as you don't let there be any other 
110V items on the circuits.

I would suggest ganging the breakers.

He probably wants to avoid replacing the plugs because he wants to use 
it as 110 ocassionally.

I do not understand exactly what is meant by "both 120 and 240 in series 
with meter" but I don't see how the setup could hurt the meters. The 
Phasing is handled by the power company.

I have wired 4 or 5 houses and to many industrial boxes and machines to 
count. I can't tell you how many times I have seen 220V 3phase plugs 
with strings of 110V plugs off of it all on one breaker. This stuff was 
wired by an electrician and passed inspection :-(. Now this practice I 
think IS a fire hazard because you have a 60A 3phase breaker and 110V 
15A plugs.





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > HUH? Why would this be a fire hazard? a 220 circuit is just
> > two breakers one on each side and both sets of wires run to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is how my house is wire and is normally use in commercial buildings 
using 3 phases and one neutral for 3 circuits of 120 vac 20 receptacles.

The breakers are gang or use a common 2 or 3 pole breaker. The first 
receptacle on the circuit is wire to Line 1 and the next one is on Line 2 
and the next is on Line 3. In a single phase wiring, it alternates Line 1 
and 2 with the same common neutral.

In this type of wiring, you can replace any one 120 volt 20 amp receptacle 
with a 240 volt 20 amp receptacle. Which is preferred over plugging in two 
120 volt plugs separate into two different receptacles for 240 volts, 
because if one plug comes out, the plug will still be live because of feed 
back from the other circuit.

It is also preferred to not connect the feed wires directly to the 
receptacle for a pass through connection. We are require to connect the 
wires together and a tap off wire going to the receptacle using a approve 
wing nut. If a person only turns off a single gang breaker that is not 
gang, the neutral wire will still have feedback voltage from the other line.

If you are going to use a GFI receptacle on this circuit, then you must run 
a separate neutral wire wire to that GFI receptacle. Do not pass though the 
neutral from a GFI receptacle that is on one phase to another non-GFI 
receptacle on a different phase.

Normally a residential house is not wire this way, but its common in 
commercial and industrial buildings that may have a in house electrician 
that maintains this type of system.

Roland





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?


> > I'm going to hazard a guess here that the problem is not with the
> > "KillaWatt" meter, but with your jury-rigged method of wiring the
> > 240V. Please, listers, do NOT
> > wire for 240V in this fashio - it is not safe, and could be a fire
> > hazard!
> >
> > Joseph H. Strubhar
> >
> > Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> >
> > E-mail: [email protected]
>
> HUH? Why would this be a fire hazard? a 220 circuit is just two breakers
> one on each side and both sets of wires run to the destination plug.
> Construction workers have used this to run table saws, you can actually
> buy this ready made.
>
> Electrically this is the same.
>
> It is actually legal to take two circuits and replace the breaker and
> the plug at the other end(as long as you don't let there be any other
> 110V items on the circuits.
>
> I would suggest ganging the breakers.
>
> He probably wants to avoid replacing the plugs because he wants to use
> it as 110 ocassionally.
>
> I do not understand exactly what is meant by "both 120 and 240 in series
> with meter" but I don't see how the setup could hurt the meters. The
> Phasing is handled by the power company.
>
> I have wired 4 or 5 houses and to many industrial boxes and machines to
> count. I can't tell you how many times I have seen 220V 3phase plugs
> with strings of 110V plugs off of it all on one breaker. This stuff was
> wired by an electrician and passed inspection :-(. Now this practice I
> think IS a fire hazard because you have a 60A 3phase breaker and 110V
> 15A plugs.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
>> > I have wired 4 or 5 houses and to many industrial boxes and
>> > machines to count. I can't tell you how many times I have
>> > seen 220V 3phase plugs with strings of 110V plugs off of it
>> > all on one breaker. This stuff was wired by an electrician
>> > and passed inspection :-( . Now this practice I think IS a
>> > fire hazard because you have a 60A 3phase breaker and 110V 15A plugs.
>> 
>
> Not necessarily. The breaker is sized to protect the wiring, not the load you plug into the outlet.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
> 
The wiring to the 120V plugs wasn't sized for the 60A! I have seen this 
a lot in non-residential wiring.

Of course, I had a fire in my office from 110V that no reasonable 
breaker would of caught.
Get this: 2 pages of paper stapled together fell off the back of the 
desk. The lamp plug was out just enough for the stable to bridge the two 
prongs of the plug and the staple turned into an igniter!

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The 110 v outlet is rated for 15 or 20 amps max, that rating is being 
violated by the 60 a. breaker, Roger.

R.E. the office fire, the American style grounded 120 v receptacle has a 
third grounded "U" pin that is supposed to be at the top to shield that precise 
problem. l l u

u l l

wrong right 
many electricians install them inverted!



In a message dated 1/15/2009 10:06:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

>
>> > I have wired 4 or 5 houses and to many industrial boxes and
>> > machines to count. I can't tell you how many times I have
>> > seen 220V 3phase plugs with strings of 110V plugs off of it
>> > all on one breaker. This stuff was wired by an electrician
>> > and passed inspection :-( . Now this practice I think IS a
>> > fire hazard because you have a 60A 3phase breaker and 110V 15A plugs.
>> 
>
> Not necessarily. The breaker is sized to protect the wiring, Not the 
load you plug into the outlet.
> And the 
fixtures like the 15 or 20 a outlets.
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
> 
The wiring to the 120V plugs wasn't sized for the 60A! I have seen this 
a lot in non-residential wiring.

Of course, I had a fire in my office from 110V that no reasonable 
breaker would of caught.
Get this: 2 pages of paper stapled together fell off the back of the 
desk. The lamp plug was out just enough for the stable to bridge the two 
prongs of the plug and the staple turned into an igniter!

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That is because with the ground at the bottom, the plug is smiling at
you.

Serious though - the exposed pins are the source of this (and other)
problems, that is why for many years the European plugs have been
changed because of new requirements that demand that for two-prong
plugs the socket does not need to be counter-sunk, but the pins
must have a shielded shaft and only the top exposed, so that
you can't touch a live pin, because before it touches the
socket's metal, the exposed part has disappeared and only the
insulated part is still outside.
The grounded plugs can only plug into sockets that will shield
the (all-metal) pins before they contact the clamps in the
socket because the socket is required to be "sunken" by a
certain depth in relation to the edge around the socket.

Of course you can still find old plugs (and sockets)
but all new equipment has been safe from the problem
that caused this fire.

Be safe,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?

The 110 v outlet is rated for 15 or 20 amps max, that rating is being 
violated by the 60 a. breaker, Roger.

R.E. the office fire, the American style grounded 120 v receptacle has a

third grounded "U" pin that is supposed to be at the top to shield that
precise 
problem. l l u


u l l


wrong right 
many electricians install them inverted!



In a message dated 1/15/2009 10:06:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

>
>> > I have wired 4 or 5 houses and to many industrial boxes and
>> > machines to count. I can't tell you how many times I have
>> > seen 220V 3phase plugs with strings of 110V plugs off of it
>> > all on one breaker. This stuff was wired by an electrician
>> > and passed inspection :-( . Now this practice I think IS a
>> > fire hazard because you have a 60A 3phase breaker and 110V 15A
plugs.
>> 
>
> Not necessarily. The breaker is sized to protect the wiring, Not
the 
load you plug into the outlet.
> And the 
fixtures like the 15 or 20 a outlets.
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
> 
The wiring to the 120V plugs wasn't sized for the 60A! I have seen this

a lot in non-residential wiring.

Of course, I had a fire in my office from 110V that no reasonable 
breaker would of caught.
Get this: 2 pages of paper stapled together fell off the back of the 
desk. The lamp plug was out just enough for the stable to bridge the
two 
prongs of the plug and the staple turned into an igniter!

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir
=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%2
6bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 16 Jan 2009 at 0:54, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Re the office fire, the American style grounded 120 v receptacle has a
> > third grounded "U" pin that is supposed to be at the top to shield that
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In some installations it is specified to install a 120 vac 60 hz 20 amp 2 
pole with ground or call a 3 wire grounding receptacle in the horizontal 
plane, with the neutral prong on top.

The reason here is if a plug is not inserted all the way leaving about a 
space for a pin or paper clip to full in behind the plug, it will first 
contact the neutral blade and then roll over and contact the ground blade.

This has happen which cause the curtains to burn which cause the building to 
burn up using the old style residential circuit breakers before a date that 
I can't recall at this time.

We now using a circuit breaker, where a person can insert a paper clip into 
the receptacle line and neutral with there bare fingers, and it will trip 
the circuit breaker before the paper clip even gets warm.

I did this test with a Square D circuit breaker which pass the test, but I 
use a long 12 inch long nose pliers on that one just in case. Many other 
types of residential grade circuit breakers did not pass the test, where the 
paper clip glow red and burn in half.

A shorting action between the neutral and ground blade may not cause a arc, 
because the neutral is grounded either back at the first disconnect switch 
or at a combination meter base and sometimes back at a pad mount 
transformer.

This action could cause more of a arc if the neutral has a high resistance 
path in many other device connections more than the ground wire path if 
there is a load on this receptacle. The ground wire is now providing the 
circuit path if shorted to the neutral.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?




> > On 16 Jan 2009 at 0:54, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > Re the office fire, the American style grounded 120 v receptacle has a
> > > third grounded "U" pin that is supposed to be at the top to shield that
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joe,
Do you think I was dumb enough to use a 120v Kilawatt meter on 220?

I am not sure what you see as a fire hazard in using two 120v outlets
to pick up 240v. Splitting a 240v outlet into 2 120s can lead to
ground/common problems if the traditional 3 conductor wire was used
for the 240 plus ground.

When I wired the output side of my meter, the original commons were
preserved and all components were grounded.



> joe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm going to hazard a guess here that the problem is not with the
> > "KillaWatt" meter, but with your jury-rigged method of wiring the 240V.
> > Please, listers, do NOT
> ...


----------

