# More Bad News for Lithium Battieries



## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Well our friends at NBC News just gave lithium batteries another Black Eye with their lead story tonight which covered several lithium battery fires on commercial airliners. Not the batteries the plane uses for the APU but as Cargo in freight containers and passenger electronics. 

1999 LAX freight container caught fire while unloading.

2004 FEDEX plane was being unloaded and a freight container caught fire

2006 UPS plane barely made it to Pennsylvania airport after a container caught fire. 

2010 UPS cargo planes carrying 80.000 batteries caught fire in flight and crashed near Dubai.

2011 Asain Airline Cargo plane carrying lithium car batteries caught fire and crashed near Korea. 

2014 Fuji Air just before takeoff noticed fire in the cargo hold where a passenger bag had a lithium battery in checked baggae caught fire.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

6 incidents in 14 years ! ..( 5 in the last 10yrs)
I wonder how that compares to say ...
..number of deaths from airline food poisioning,?
...or crashes attributed to pilot error ?
Any other random event on an aircraft ?

But yes, its a bad rap for the product.


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## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

If you ever have seen how they handle the cargo or luggage when loading and unloading, you are not to be surprised. 
One would need like a Pelican Flight Case for each cell in order to keep them safe........

Regards
/Per


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Just goes to show that lithium batteries are afraid to fly. Seriously, someone needs to do better shipping methods.


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

I wonder if batteries shipped could be shipped lithium type empty. If a CALB cell was shipped at 2v, even if there was a short, how much energy would it have. 

Also would make bottom balancing easier...grin>


Roy


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> I wonder if batteries shipped could be shipped lithium type empty. If a CALB cell was shipped at 2v, even if there was a short, how much energy would it have.


Too risky for the manufactures warranty. Although lithium batteries have low self discharge rates, they still have self discharge. They just sit too long on the dealers/distributors shelf to long to do that.

In the RC world we store our batteries @ roughly 60% SOC and keep them in the fridge to prolong them. To destroy then we shoot them with a 22 and soak them over night in a bucket of water.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> I wonder if batteries shipped could be shipped lithium type empty. If a CALB cell was shipped at 2v, even if there was a short, how much energy would it have.
> 
> Also would make bottom balancing easier...grin>
> 
> ...


Search YouTube vids of "LiPo disposal".
You will find examples of cells with even a fraction of a volt remaining, still have enough energy to seriously "off gas" flammable gasses if punctured .
( and that is after 3 days immersed in a brine solution !)
Water or brine immersion is NOT a reliable method of discharging cells to a "safe" level.
It seems the only safe LiPo cell is one that has been discharged to 0.1 volts or less, and then have it's terminals permanently shorted !
Not much of a solution for shipping new cells though !


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## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

We cut through a 100ah calb with a chop saw made a lot of dust and that lovely pears smell it will be on youtube at some point.


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## racunniff (Jan 14, 2009)

Sunking said:


> Well our friends at NBC News just gave lithium batteries another Black Eye with their lead story tonight which covered several lithium battery fires on commercial airliners. Not the batteries the plane uses for the APU but as Cargo in freight containers and passenger electronics.


This, of course, is not really news. Lithium batteries have been prohibited in checked baggage for a while - for example, http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...edia/faa_airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf It started with laptop batteries - as far back as 2006 if I recall correctly. That said, I'm curious who is behind pushing this as some sort of urgent story...


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Dream liner Ntsb determination was just released. News cycle needs new earthshaking news to promote fear of everything.

Same deal back to 1996 with nicads and metal wastebaskets.


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## evpower (Aug 9, 2013)

Nathan219 said:


> We cut through a 100ah calb with a chop saw made a lot of dust and that lovely pears smell it will be on youtube at some point.


Check this link to a home-made video with nailing the blue CALB SE model of the LFP cell: http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/101864398106/

More CALB cell reviews and info here: http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/tagged/calb


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## evpower (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: News for LiFePO4 safety*

Check these support articles for LiFePO4 safety:

* Real failure rate for the LFP cells
http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/112072937036/

* Can a LiFePO4 battery set itself on fire?
http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/73991378470/

Support articles provided by GWL/Power - http://www.ev-power.eu/


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