# RX8 Conversion



## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi all,
Ok we're to start.....I bought RX8 Yesterday to convert,
Have spoken to a few people (thx skooler) and this will be my diary of events.

This is what I hope to build into the car........
WARP11HV, Warp drive industrial 1200A, 70 Sinolopy 200AH for a pack voltage of around 260V, Elcon 5kw charger, possibly 2 DC-DC converters in parrellel.

Also I want all the original gear to work, so yes to AC and all other mod cons....

Hopefully this will give me some good acceleration not to worried about top speed as long as I can hit 90 at some point would be good, more interested in range and that's why I'm going for loads of batteries (if I can fit them in) 

Anyway thx again will post again soon
P.s. any ideas are welcome


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hello again!

If you are planning on using the 11HV are you going to keep the gearbox or mount it straight onto the rear diff? (in the transmission tunnell) 

I havent measured it but i'm sure there is space for an 11" in there!

how much did you pay for the RX8 (if you dont mind me asking?)

Cheers,

Mike


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I have not read much about the Sinolopy batteries. have you compared closely with CALB? Internal Resistance, stated max C and est cycle life


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow that is a massive pack - 45 kWh. That would weigh 400 kilos or so.

What sort of range are you expecting with that - 150 to 200 miles?

One alternative to think about is using a higher voltage and smaller cells for better acceleration, less current (heat), and same range using the Soliton 1 or the 360v version of the Warp drive.

If you actually push the Sinopoly 200ah cells @ 1200 amps in a pack I can only guess but you'd probably see sag from 3.3v to somewhere around 2.5v to 2.7v which would give you around 210 kW to the motor

Smaller cells might be easier to position as well.

Good luck with it all I wish I could be in same stage, I'm stuck in the dreaming phase.


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hello again!
> 
> If you are planning on using the 11HV are you going to keep the gearbox or mount it straight onto the rear diff? (in the transmission tunnell)
> 
> ...


Hi mike, was gonna use the gearbox, and I payed £2k on a 05 plate it is imacculate. 

As for battery comparisons spent a lot of time looking at different makes there really isn't a lot in them, calb, winston or sinolopy. Sinolopy are currently doing smallest form factor which is why I'm looking at them, but could change when I get nearer to buying them.
On mpc I would like about 120 at 80%dod with normal town driving, is that too much to ask!!!

Ok question what make is a good high power output dc-dc converter? Needs to be isolated. 
Spending today just checking everything out in the car and looking all around and underneath, unfortunately have got to repair my old ice car today


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi mike, was gonna use the gearbox, and I payed £2k on a 05 plate it is imacculate.
> 
> As for battery comparisons spent a lot of time looking at different makes there really isn't a lot in them, calb, winston or sinolopy. Sinolopy are currently doing smallest form factor which is why I'm looking at them, but could change when I get nearer to buying them.
> On mpc I would like about 120 at 80%dod with normal town driving, is that too much to ask!!!
> ...


Hi Spyder,

I would really think about getting rid of the gearbox with your motor. The rotary engines are known for not being producing much torque. The gearbox may not be able to take it. (others can probably advise better than I can!) 

With an 11" on the gearbox you will also be very close to the electric part of the steering rack, my 9" clears it my about an inch (above the rack) mines about 16.5" long. (dont take that the wrong way!)

120 miles should be fine with your pack. I calculated 290WH per mile on mine. Meaning that you need a ~44KW pack for 120miles at 80% DoD. I the pack yous suggested was 45KW?

I'm not sure about DC-DC converters, I am planning to run a small 4s3p pack of headway 16AH cells for my 12V with a small (20amp) DC-DC to keep it topped up. Have a look at some build threads and the links on the RHS to see what is being used.

I calculated an hours typical driving on mine, with the lights on and the radio at 'audible' volume. the 12v systems will suck 38Amps. its worth mentioning the electric steering is rated at 40amps but not continuously.

Let me know when you are looking at purchasing cells. I was also looking at sinopoly and we might be able to save on shipping and get discounts if people purchase together.

£2000 for an '05 plate is good! I payed £1200 for my 2004 and have made over £650 back by selling parts on ebay!

good luck!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Also worth having a look at this link - helped me a LOT!

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=178937


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hi Spyder,
> 
> I would really think about getting rid of the gearbox with your motor. The rotary engines are known for not being producing much torque. The gearbox may not be able to take it. (others can probably advise better than I can!)


From RX-8 specifications. 

Power: 177 kW , 238 HP SAE @ 8,500 rpm; 159 ft lb , 216 Nm @ 5,500 rpm

The Warp 11 will do 140ft lb at about 460 amps looking at the Netgain chart. It should make the same 159 ft lb peak torque as the stock RX-8 at around 500 amps.

I would keep the transmission and the clutch. You will want to use second and third gears. Besides shifting is fun.

If you don't add too much weight it will be a very fast and fun car.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

dougingraham said:


> From RX-8 specifications.
> 
> Power: 177 kW , 238 HP SAE @ 8,500 rpm; 159 ft lb , 216 Nm @ 5,500 rpm
> 
> ...


Dougingraham,

I'm not saying spyder should or shouldnt keep the transmission (I am keeping it in my RX8 conversion)

My concern is whether it can handle the torque. It would be really dissapointing if the gearbox is destroyed the first time the pedal hits the floor!

Your calculation (appears correct to me) 159ft lbs at 500amps, matching the stock engines peak.

Only problem being the use of a 1200A controller. I'm not sure how much torque increases with amps but I bet its significantly more at 1200A than 500A - perhaps ~300ft lbs?

I also have concerns over clearance. There is a crossmember and the steering rack 18." from the bell housing face. my 9" motor Just misses it by 3/4" (above the rack) an 11" motor that is the same length would almost definately interfere.

I will take some pictures of mine and get the tape measure out when it lightens up tomorrow!

like I said, i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do but putting twice the intended torque through the gearbox may not be ideal, it could be fine. Its just something to consider!

Cheers,

Mike


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> Also worth having a look at this link - helped me a LOT!
> 
> http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=178937


I had never looked at an RX-8 closely but I am struck by how similar everything looks to my RX-7. I guess it makes sense since both cars are front engine rotarys with rear wheel drive and manual transmissions.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> Dougingraham,
> 
> My concern is whether it can handle the torque. It would be really dissapointing if the gearbox is destroyed the first time the pedal hits the floor!
> 
> ...


I understand your concern. I have the same with my RX-7. There is a turbo kit I found for the RX8 that boosts the power to 390 horsepower at 7400 rpm and 290 pound-feet of torque at 5100 rpm. They suggest you upgrade the clutch but it sounds like everything else was ok.

But if you are concerned there is a real simple solution. Set the controller to limit amps to 500 at first. That should protect everything pretty nicely. You can always increase the current limit a little at a time until something breaks. Then fix what broke and back the amps off <grin>. More than likely the clutch will be the thing that gives out first. And that is not too hard to replace.

I hope there is room for the 11" motor. I really would like to see that setup.

Best Wishes!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I've been working on mine today (removing the oil radiators from behind the front bumper, if you ever need to take the bumper off feel free to pm me first!)

While I was at it I had a measure up of the transmission/gearbox tunnell and the distance to the crossmember.

See pics below.

There is almost exactly 11" in the tunnel but its surrounded by a heat shield and sound proofing. should be enough for your motor if you want/need to take that route.



















The crossmember is ~18" from the face of the bellhousing (I marked it before taking it out). My 9" motor will just clear it but a 11" motor may foul it.



















Cheers,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Thx guys good info,
Will have to look into it a bit more, really would like to fit the 11" motor with clutch and gearbox.
The link you gave me, great minds think alike I already have it saved lol

My idea of starting to strip the RX8 this week is on hold due to work commitments, hopefully will start soon (let's hope)
Got some mock-ups made for motor, controller and such so I can see we're things can go.
Skooler, what charger you looking at using ? I looked at 5kw Elcon should take about 5 hrs to do full charge from 80% dod. Also you asked what RX8 I have, it has climate control but doesn't have sat nav or cruise control which is great because I didn't want the extra hassle. 

Ok time for some rest. Cheers guys keep info coming


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm not entirely decided on the charger yet. I have the elcon 5kw on my list though, great minds hey?

I am also looking at http://www.ev-power.eu/?p=p_63&sName=chargers-(6-kw-pfc) mainly because it will avoid the import taxes.

have you looked at Kostov motors? They work out cheaper and shipping should be quicker as they are based in bulgaria. They sell a lot of other components also.

Just a thought!


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

skooler said:


> I'm not entirely decided on the charger yet. I have the elcon 5kw on my list though, great minds hey?
> 
> I am also looking at http://www.ev-power.eu/?p=p_63&sName=chargers-(6-kw-pfc) mainly because it will avoid the import taxes.
> 
> ...


Yep great minds, been looking at that site too, charger is very nice a bit on the large size but should charge my pack quicker.
And the price is good. Will take a look at Kostov motors, havent really looked at them much so dont know.

Ran up all the electrics i could with it sat outside my garage, put a clamp meter on the cable coming from the battery, it was pulling 39A without the Power steering thats roughly 500w. http://www.evsource.com/tls_dcdc.php
This looks good but cant find if its isolated so will have to mail them and find out, would have to mount in box but thats no problem.
Ok back to work

cheers guys


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi guys,
Ok quick update,
Got few days off so have started stripping parts, will take some photos to let you see.
The exhaust is gone and the boot is stripped, also emptied the fuel tank.
Tomorrow hope to remove the heat shields and prop-shaft then start removing the tank.
Have spoken to someone who already converted an RX8 and he says there is a lot of work to get the engine ECU,s and other computers to work after the ICE is removed, I was wondering if anyone has had problems with there's? And can give me any advice ? 
Anyway will check in tomorrow with update
Cheers


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi guys,
Ok update will start stripping engine bay tomorrow, then once engine and radiator is out I can really start measuring up.
Skooler, how did you remove the PCM unit ? 
Also are you now selling sinolopy batteries ? 

Will post some pics tomorrow of my progress, parts have started to arrive, and hope to buy motor, controller in January subject to exact dimensions when engine is out.
Have made 2 mock up battery boxes for boot space, 1 fits in between suspension struts in boot other I'm hoping to sink to lower boot level so I still regain 2/3rds of boot space.
All looks good but need to cut out boot to make sure.
Ok as always any help is appreciated and keep ideas coming...


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## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

skooler said:


> From RX-8 specifications.
> 
> Power: 177 kW , 238 HP SAE @ 8,500 rpm; 159 ft lb , 216 Nm @ 5,500 rpm
> 
> ...


warp11hv - about:

400 ft-lb /1100a
450 ft-lb /1250a

taken from wheels on dyno - check JRs cobra dyno runs on evtv

btw. v sag~25% (220v to 168)

second stage clutch been fired on warp9(1000a)Speedster in first few minutes out of garage door; stage four - seems ok


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

I wonder if they weren't building enough torque-lag into the controller...I am not sure about the netgain controller but the soliton has a few functions that can slow the rate of amperage, even on WOT, to allow the EV to feel more like a ICE. Slowing the rate at which the amps increase also acts as an additional benefit in that it can help to protect the cars driveline from the instantly available torque, something the car wasn't ever built for.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi guys,
> Ok update will start stripping engine bay tomorrow, then once engine and radiator is out I can really start measuring up.
> Skooler, how did you remove the PCM unit ?
> Also are you now selling sinolopy batteries ?
> ...


Hi Spyder,

A word of advice on the radiator, take the front bumper off first it makes it soooooo much simpler to remove, you'll need it off for the oil coilant radiators (by the foglights) anyway.

A video of how to do it is here:
http://www.502streetscene.net/forum/showthread.php?t=135572

30 minutes long but its worth a watch.

As for the PCM unit. I havent removed it but you'll need to take the top cover off to get to the engine wiring loom. Basically take the cover off (from memory there is a bolt by the battery tray). Then you will see a metalic cover (I think its a brass colour) with two bolts. Remove these and you'll be able to get to the loom connecors (I had to grind one of the bolts off). There are 3/4 square connector blocks that simply pull out and a rubber gromet will lift out with them.

I would post a picture but I'm not near the car at the moment.

You will need a 21mm long reach socket to get the gearbox off the mounts that connect it to the rear differential. (not many sets seem to have one!)

Not sure on the forum rules about advertising items for sale so I have sent you a PM. You might want to look in the classifieds section and discuss the batteries there.

Cheers,

Mike


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> On the ptm I have taken cover off but all the fixings are the type that shear when done up so there are no fixings I can undo  did you keep the engine harness


Does it look like a rounded bolt?

On mine I had to grind it off, I assumed it had been rounded when mine had an engine change before I purchased it. You will have plenty of regular bolts left over that you can replace them with. its just 2 bolts directly on the plate.

There's a thick metal plate between the electronics and the bolt so you'll struggle to do any damage to it.

I have removed the engine loom completely and will only put back what is needed. e.g. pickups from the gearbox etc. I will then create some kind of circuit to generate the necessary signals to fool the ECU to thinking the engines still there.

Some pics of how you get on would be good 

Cheers,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

skooler said:


> Does it look like a rounded bolt?
> 
> On mine I had to grind it off, I assumed it had been rounded when mine had an engine change before I purchased it. You will have plenty of regular bolts left over that you can replace them with. its just 2 bolts directly on the plate.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
here is a picture all the bolts are the same not sure how to remove without damage 
Plus a couple of other photos of work in progress
Would be really interested in pictures of your adaptor plate when you get it.
cheers


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi Mike,
> here is a picture all the bolts are the same not sure how to remove without damage
> Plus a couple of other photos of work in progress
> Would be really interested in pictures of your adaptor plate when you get it.
> cheers


Spyder,

It looks slightly different to mine! was yours the 192ps or 230ps model? mine was the 192. Mine had already had an engine rebuild so it might have already been hacked about a bit!

I will take a picture of mine when I'm next near the car. Possibly later today.

Looks like i'm not getting the adaptor plate until next week now. i will post pictures when its complete.

Cheers,

Mike


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> Spyder,
> 
> It looks slightly different to mine! was yours the 192ps or 230ps model? mine was the 192. Mine had already had an engine rebuild so it might have already been hacked about a bit!
> 
> ...


 
I've got the pictures from mine 

Looks as though mine had already been cut up - probably from the engine rebuild its had.

The two green arrows show the bolts that are holding it on. the rest of the holes look as though they have been drilled out although there does not appear to be any thread in the plastics (see second pic).

I would suggest drilling the heads from the bolts marked by the green arrows and see if it comes free.

I had to grind off the one on the right hand side as it was rounded off (see 'damage' on second pic).



















Hope this helps,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi guys, update time....
Ok engine is out measurements taken, and I'm nearly ready to order motor, controller and basically everything else (apart from batteries) will take front bumper off tomorrow to remove oil radiators then that is everything out that needs to be 
Am now thinking of buying 10kw open source charger as it seems just too good for price thx for all info from other threads. Has anyone bought one ? Also is there a add on for J1772 Comms ? 
I'm hoping on fitting 44 batteries in boot and 26 in front looks tight in engine bay can easily get 22 it's just the other 4 mmmm will have to rethink a bit.

Skooler, when do you expect your first batteries ? Also how's your project going have you had first drive yet ? 
Cheers guys.


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Also anyone know good heater with upto 240vdc ?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Apologies if the formatting isn't up to scratch, I'm on my blackberry with only GPRS.

Hi spyder,
Sweet work any pics?

I'm expecting my first big batch of cells in march, I need to double check stock, a local photo-voltaic company are having quite a few but haven't confirmed how many.

I will be ordering more once the funds clear.

Is it the 200AH that you want?

My project is going well. I had a test drive on xmas eve. Motor was in with jump leads through the window, passenger then controls power with the crocodile clips!

Have a look at the below link:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MHC21148?feature=watch

I haven't posted an update yet because I wanted to finnish off my mounts first.

When the video was taken, the motor was sitting on a bracket for the steering rack. I will post up pics of the finished mounts in the nexyt few days.

Cheers,

Mike


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I designed an add on for the 10kw charger to use J1772 (actually iec61851 in europe) and its working well. Details over on the charger thread. Nice project by the way


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## kakheath (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi guys. This is my first post on the forum. I'm planning an RX8 conversion as well. I just bought the car on Friday (Jan13). I've been thinking of using Headway batteries with 2 WarP 9's. I'm gonna start off with a basic setup and then in a year expand to the final design. First phase will use only 1 WarP 9 with the trans and 70% of the batteries. Later probably next summer I'll remove the trans and go direct drive and add the second motor and additional batteries. Thanks for sharing your builds. I love reading about your progress. Good luck to you both.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

kakheath said:


> Hi guys. This is my first post on the forum. I'm planning an RX8 conversion as well. I just bought the car on Friday (Jan13). I've been thinking of using Headway batteries with 2 WarP 9's. I'm gonna start off with a basic setup and then in a year expand to the final design. First phase will use only 1 WarP 9 with the trans and 70% of the batteries. Later probably next summer I'll remove the trans and go direct drive and add the second motor and additional batteries. Thanks for sharing your builds. I love reading about your progress. Good luck to you both.


Hi Kakheath,

Great to hear of another RX8 conversion, I look forward to sharing ideas 

What are your range/ power expectations? 

Spyder and I both seem to be making long range conversions, looks like yours will be a bit of a power beast 

Why two warp 9s and not a warp11 (or 2 )? (or kostov?)

Space between the gearbox and the crossmember is tight (~18" from memory) bare this in mind when selecting a motor and adapter.

Why headway cells? There is a surprising amount of room for batteries when you get everything out.

Perhaps you should create a build thread so we avoid hijacking Spyder's thread?

Mods, how about a subforum for RX8 conversions? 

Cheers,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi All,
ok Have got everything out of car clutch and flywheel are off engine and wiring loom is off.
Have ordered Motor and controller and everything else, well most.....
Been looking at Vacumm pumps and the Audi/VW one looks good but has anyone used one and if so is it noisey? 
Skooler quick question are you changing throttle pedal as RX8 has fly by wire one and im not sure how i we reuse this ???

Will start cutting boot out for battery box friday and start to tidy up and install some minor parts and then the long wait for Motor/ controller to arrive  
Couple of pics for you guys to have a laugh at, the cardboard boxes are rough sizes for motor controller and contactor/ fuse box put in place so i can size stuff up....


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## kakheath (Jan 7, 2012)

I read you were planning to use an 11" motor, but it's not clear. What motor and controller did you finally order and when do you expect them to arrive?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Skooler quick question are you changing throttle pedal as RX8 has fly by wire one and im not sure how i we reuse this ???


Hi Spyder,

I am not 100% but I am told it uses dual 0-5v outputs (for redundancy) I planned to use one for the original ECU and one for the Soliton.

Otherwise I was going to keep the pedal and run the output through an Arduino, outputting the correct throttle output for the soliton with a 'fail off' coded in.

Cheers

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi Kakheath,
The Motor is a WARP11HV with a WARP II Industrial 260V1200A controller,
i purchased these and other parts from EVSOURCE who are friendly and seem to know what there talking about. I also after talking to Ryan at EVSOURCE have a beta Bluetooth adapter for my Android phone which can setup the controller and monitor all values which i really like the idea of.
Cant wait for my parts to arrive but being on the other side of the big pond has some disadvantages it takes ages to get stuff  so i will be waiting a while.
Skooler can you remember did you get the magic number before you removed your flywheel ? ( the dstance from edge of engine block to face of flywheel) Also what is the distance from from outside edge to outside edge of your adaptoR ?

Latest update for me is i have cut hole in boot for rear battery box and removed some old exhaust mounts from under the car and am now just really doing little jobs around the car waiting for parts.....
My new Vacuum pupmp arrived today so i now need to fabricate a brkt for it to sit on, its a nice little Audi/Volvo pump not sure how loud it is yet will run it up probably tomorow and let you guys know. 
ok think thats it from me,
Any questions or coments are really appreciated

cheers guys


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Skooler can you remember did you get the magic number before you removed your flywheel ? ( the dstance from edge of engine block to face of flywheel) Also what is the distance from from outside edge to outside edge of your adaptoR ?


 
We need pictures Spyder!

I measured the distance to the flywheel face from where the starter motor was located (with the engine still in). Its then just a case of making sure it goes back where it came from!

Basically I measured the distance from the motor face to the flywheel to work out how deep into the bellhousing the motor would go and adjust the thickness accordingly..

My design uses spacers to allow for some tweaking (I changed my spacer thickness from 24mm to 12mm to make the clutch disengage properly after i realised the motor and gearbox shaft were touching. I will hopefully post an update tonight.

Total thickness of the adapter plate is 37mm - two half inch aluminium plates and three 12mm spacers.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Quick update, 
My order has been in with EVSource for nearly a month now nothing shipped yet  
Have decided to buy a adaptor plate and coupling from Canadian electric as they already have one designed to fit...less work for me  
That's about it for now as all I can do is wait for parts  hopefully not much longer.
Skooler, how long does it take to get batteries from sinolopy ? 

Ok update soon

Nick


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Skooler, how long does it take to get batteries from sinolopy ?


H Nick,

Between 4 and 6 weeks when I dont have stock. (as I said in the other thread, I sold my first stock order and my own cells!)

About 2 days when I do have stock!

PM me if you're interested 

Cheers,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi all,
Ok update time with hopefully a few photos,
Motor and coupling with lightened flywheel and clutch now ready for installation into car in next few days i hope.
I have installed the new radiator, had to make some new brackets to acommadate it but not to hard to do, Also have asked a local training group to build me a platform in welded aluminium to support Controller, 12v Battery and a Aluminium box to house all my contactor, relay and dc/dc convertor, which has been test fitted and is now just having final welding then being sprayed black (so it disappears) 
Will post pictures when i have it in my hand.
Have looked at the Accelerator pedal on the RX8 and talked to Skooler, it looks a lot like the pedal i was going to buy from evsource so think i will have to check out to see if i can save some dosh..
Got lots to do but its been raining solid for last few days, and unfortunately i cant get it in garage 
So will have to wait until it brightns up to install the Motor.
Also i have new Heater to install and a few other bits (more brackets to make) lol.
ok will update soon
cheers 
Nick


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Sweet work! looking good 

Let me know if you need any more info on the pedal. It was a pig of a job for me and if I can help then I am more than happy to.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Spyder.ev said:


> ...
> Have looked at the Accelerator pedal on the RX8 and talked to Skooler, it looks a lot like the pedal i was going to buy from evsource so think i will have to check out to see if i can save some dosh...


I'm pretty sure the NetGain Controllers need to have the throttle map programmed by Ryan - it can't hurt to see if your pedal will work, but don't be surprised if it doesn't.

Two other things I saw in your pictures which don't look kosher:

1. Fuses really ought to be mounted in proper fuse holders and current should never have to flow through either the bolts or the nuts to go through the fuse. That is to say, the crimp terminal on the cable ends should be in direct contact with the fuse blades, and not separated by nuts, washers, etc.

2. The EV200 contactor can carry a maximum current of 500A when both terminals are bolted to a large enough "heatsink". The continuous current rating of a single EV200 with just 2/0 (70mm²) cables connected to it is closer to 200A (hence the name, EV200). We use two of these contactors in parallel inside the Soliton1 where the large flat copper bus plates act as a heatsink while inside the control box for our dyno we just connect them in parallel with some small copper plates (scrapped bus plates, actually) and they run about 30-40C hotter as a result. In other words, you may want to use (3) EV200 contactors in parallel for a 1200A controller, depending on how often you think you'll pull 1200A from the batteries (not often, if ever, actually, but the consequences of the contactors overheating are not pretty at all).


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Nick,

What are the dimensions of your fuse? brand/model?

I have a couple of spare fuseholders here that may be suitable(I could onlly buy a pack of 3!)

I'm more than happy to chuck one in the post for you if you like?

Cheers,

Mike


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What's with the two contactors around the fuse?


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi guys,
To answer your questions the contractor on the left and the first1 connected to the fuse are for isolation only. The second is the controller conactor.
I did this for safety cut off I have an e-stop circuit running in the boot under the bonnet and through the ignition key. Thanks mike for offer if I change the way I'm doing things will def get hold of you
I am currently installing the heater and the new alloy washer tank, will update some pics tomorrow. 
Cheers guys


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Spyder.ev said:


> ...the contractor on the left and the first1 connected to the fuse are for isolation only. The second is the controller conactor....


So, you are only using *one* EV200 contactor to handle the full battery current of your 260V/1200A controller?

"What Could Possibly Go Wrong???"


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi tesseract,
Didn't read your first comment until now, totally agree should have at least 2 contactors
In parallel, as for netgain control, I'm going to have a chat with Ryan see if I can
Use my pedal. 
Cheers guys any help is good


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi tesseract,
> Didn't read your first comment until now, totally agree should have at least 2 contactors
> In parallel, as for netgain control, I'm going to have a chat with Ryan see if I can
> Use my pedal.
> Cheers guys any help is good



Do you mean - 2 contactors In *parallel*, ??

I am going to have two contactors (and a physical disconnect) in *series*


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Duncan said:


> Do you mean - 2 contactors In *parallel*, ??
> 
> I am going to have two contactors (and a physical disconnect) in *series*


Hi duncan,
Yer I mean parallel, as teserract pointed out for full load I need to spread the load between the 2 contractors or I will burn out the contractor.
Which is bad...lol
Thx
Nick


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi duncan,
> Yer I mean parallel, as teserract pointed out for full load I need to spread the load between the 2 contractors or I will burn out the contractor.
> Which is bad...lol
> Thx
> Nick


I may be wrong but I don't think that will help, the issue with a contactor is if it has to break the current under load

If you have two in parallel one will try and open first and will zorch as will it's buddy a few milliseconds later 
The danger is that one of them will fail closed - and you could have a runaway

I expect that if I do have to open the circuit because of a failed controller my contactors will - expire - and not be re-useable 

Two in series will give me a second bite if the first one fails to open
The physical disconnect will give a third chance


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Duncan said:


> I may be wrong but I don't think that will help, the issue with a contactor is if it has to break the current under load


You are indeed wrong. If the contactors were on the motor side of the controller then you would be right as the motor is an inductive load which will try to maintain the flow of current even when the circuit is broken (by inducing a voltage high enough to cross whatever gap might be in the way).

The battery side of a motor controller, however, is a capacitive load, and opening up into such - even in the event of an extreme overcurrent - is relatively benign; it is closing the contactors which is potentially hazardous, instead, because a capacitive load looks like a dead-short to a difference in voltage, hence the need for "precharge".


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks Tesseract

So I can reduce my worry about my contactors not opening - and when closed they should "current share" so 2 in parallel will only see the half the current.

So the worry about too small a contactor is overheating or stealing voltage across the closed contacts

Battery current is less than motor current so that is only an issue at higher speeds

I will be sticking to my series system as the regs here require me to open both sides of the battery

My pre-charge is a manual system - to start with at least


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Duncan said:


> ...
> So I can reduce my worry about my contactors not opening - and when closed they should "current share" so 2 in parallel will only see the half the current.


More or less correct. Slight differences in resistance in the contactors and the associated wiring will shift the current division between them away from a theoretically perfect 50%, but unless you really malf things up it shouldn't be more than a couple percentage points either way.



Duncan said:


> So the worry about too small a contactor is overheating or stealing voltage across the closed contacts


Correct. And as the contactors heat up their resistance will increase causing them to heat up even more until you get a nasty molten mess. A single EV200 (or Albright SW200) should be limited to 200-250A average current unless you can demonstrably prove - with thermocouples on the terminals - that they won't heat up more than about 25C (the resistance of Cu increases about 0.4%/C, or 10% every 25C).


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## kakheath (Jan 7, 2012)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi all,
> Ok update time with hopefully a few photos,
> Motor and coupling with lightened flywheel and clutch now ready for installation into car in next few days i hope.


Great update. Looks like you're really making progress. Can you tell me more about the flywheel and adapter? Did you have to modify your flywheel in order for it to connect to the motor hub? When you say that you lightened it, how did you do this? Can you include pictures please to help me better understand? 

Thanks in advance. Can wait to hear about your first test drive. I'm excited for you.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

kakheath said:


> Great update. Looks like you're really making progress. Can you tell me more about the flywheel and adapter? Did you have to modify your flywheel in order for it to connect to the motor hub? When you say that you lightened it, how did you do this? Can you include pictures please to help me better understand?
> 
> Thanks in advance. Can wait to hear about your first test drive. I'm excited for you.


I'm also interested in how the flywheel is attached.

Kakheath, if you after ideas then post 45 onards on my build thread shows how I (well my machinist) machined the centre of my stock flywheel.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/good-motoriii-61556p5.html

Cheers,

Mike


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## kakheath (Jan 7, 2012)

skooler said:


> Kakheath, if you after ideas then post 45 onards on my build thread shows how I (well my machinist) machined the centre of my stock flywheel.
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/good-motoriii-61556p5.html
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike. I had reviewed your thread on the subject already. I will be doing something similar to yours, but wasn't sure if I needed to remove the taper from the ID of the flywheel or not. What I would really like to do it copy the tapered hub idea and have it tighten down onto the motor shaft like the taper hubs do. Below is a pic of a tapered hub. Instead of having the smaller piece on the left tighten into a hub, it would use the taper and key already inside the flywheel. One would need to drill the holes for the bolts to attach the tapered piece into place. Of course you would have to create the tapered adapter from scratch to match the taper inside the flywheel, but using the key and the clamping force of the design it might work very well.


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

kakheath said:


> Great update. Looks like you're really making progress. Can you tell me more about the flywheel and adapter? Did you have to modify your flywheel in order for it to connect to the motor hub? When you say that you lightened it, how did you do this? Can you include pictures please to help me better understand?
> 
> Thanks in advance. Can wait to hear about your first test drive. I'm excited for you.


Hi Kakheath, Skooler,
will post some pictures when i get home hopefully,
but the simple answer to your question is i bought the Adaptor plate and coupling from http://www.canev.com/
They do the adapter complete with the coupling for RX7 gearbox which is the same as the RX8, the coupling fits straight on the motor shaft and then you place the flywheel on it and use the existing large 54mm nut to tighten it up. It should then fit straight onto the gearbox (im hoping the distance is correct, randy at canev assures me it will fit perfectly) will find out thursday or friday.
The flywheel itself i took to a local engineering firm and asked them to remove some weight from the rear of the flywhell and then balance it which they did for about $30. The only problem that i might have is that the motor with adaptor plate is a little long so i might have to modify the subframe a little will find out soon.
ok thx all will update soon with some pics
cheers
Nick


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> The only problem that i might have is that the motor with adaptor plate is a little long so i might have to modify the subframe a little will find out soon.Nick


Hi Nick,

Looking good!

I wish I knew that the RX7 gearbox was the same!

My 9" clears the subframe, steering rack etc by well over an inch so your 11" should fit fine. I'm about 2 inches from the black round bar that passes above the steering rack. I cant see your motor being that much longer than mine.

The only other thing to consider is increasing the angle that the gearbox is positioned to give you more room. Mine is probably 10 degrees from stock but all works and fits well.

Cheers,

Mike


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## kakheath (Jan 7, 2012)

skooler said:


> Hi Nick,
> 
> Looking good!
> 
> ...


Don't forget the shifter. How ever much you raise the trans to clear the steering rack and cross member, the shifter inside the car will move higher as well. I installed a short shifter on my 97 camaro. I'm sure they're available for RX8s as well. I'm just not sure how far up you can go with the trans before you start hitting the heat shield underneath the car. I'm not that far along yet. I'm having Electric Car Company in Utah make my adapter and hub. I should be installing it in a few weeks. Will update on my build thread when it arrives.

I look forward to seeing more pics of your progress. Sounds like it's going to be a great product when complete. Thanks.


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi guys,
Ok Motor is in and running clutch worked first time and rear wheels spinning when in gear. Havent actually drove it yet as i have a few other things i want to do before taking the car off the jacks. Have installed the Heater and a special Alloy washer tank. Fitted the pump for the Heater and also the pump for the cooling for the controller. Am making a bracket for supporting the motor as we speak so should be in the car in next few days. So then i can get on with the controller and contactor arrangement.
Am really happy with the way the adaptor plate and coupling went in and worked first time. Hats off to Canadian Electic vehicles really good quality and as i say no need for adjustment.....

cheers 
Nick


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi guys,
> Ok Motor is in and running clutch worked first time and rear wheels spinning when in gear. Havent actually drove it yet as i have a few other things i want to do before taking the car off the jacks. Have installed the Heater and a special Alloy washer tank. Fitted the pump for the Heater and also the pump for the cooling for the controller. Am making a bracket for supporting the motor as we speak so should be in the car in next few days. So then i can get on with the controller and contactor arrangement.
> Am really happy with the way the adaptor plate and coupling went in and worked first time. Hats off to Canadian Electic vehicles really good quality and as i say no need for adjustment.....
> 
> ...


Any Updates?

I really envy that motor!


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi all
Yer a little update, first day I have worked on it in a while, once the motor mount was finished I realised my controller Brkt was too low so had to modify and strengthen. have been trying to use existing relays were possible (I hate car wiring) and this is taking some time. I have spoken to Ryan at netgain controls and he assures me the Rx8 pedal assembly will plug straight into the controller (may need a firmware update) which is good news.
Skooler, great video m8 your doing great, I'm a little bit behind I think  
On your slipping clutch it maybe your adapter plate is not quite the right distance  also were did you pick up brake input ? 

Have just filled both heating and cooling systems and ran pumps, fans and all looks ok, no leaks and fans run correctly next is to make Brkt for vacumn pump and finish wiring will upload some pictures when I get to pc. 
I envy we're your at mike, wish I was there  
Cheers 
Nick


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi all
> Yer a little update, first day I have worked on it in a while, once the motor mount was finished I realised my controller Brkt was too low so had to modify and strengthen. have been trying to use existing relays were possible (I hate car wiring) and this is taking some time. I have spoken to Ryan at netgain controls and he assures me the Rx8 pedal assembly will plug straight into the controller (may need a firmware update) which is good news.
> Skooler, great video m8 your doing great, I'm a little bit behind I think
> On your slipping clutch it maybe your adapter plate is not quite the right distance  also were did you pick up brake input ?
> ...


I havent put a brake input in yet.. I was thinking either directly from the pedal or the brakelight but that probably doesnt help!

Clutch slip issue is 'almost' sorted since i changed the controller ramp rate. I am starting to think its a distance issue 

Thanks, you're not that far behind!
Cheers,

Mike

Cheers,

Mike


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## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok guys a few pics,
Gonna try and finish the wiring as far as i can tomorow,
And mock up a brkt for the Vac pump.
Then i can start on the Battery brkts and boxes,
Now pedal wiring.......Mike i have found the wiring going to the ECU but bit thick errr.......if i piggy back the wiring then dont i have the problem that both the ecu and my controller will give it 5v ? or do i just piggy back the output side and leave the 2 inputs to come from the controller only??? or am i talkin rubbish ?
Been a long day will think on this a bit more.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Spyder.ev said:


> if i piggy back the wiring then dont i have the problem that both the ecu and my controller will give it 5v ? or do i just piggy back the output side and leave the 2 inputs to come from the controller only???


Only hook the 5v to one device. It probably doesn't matter but I would use the 5v from the controller since it needs to actually control the car based on the throttle position. The ground can be common and it probably is ok to share the position signal(s). But I would not connect the 5v supplies together. Probably nothing bad would happen but you never know. The other possibility is that if the motor controller wakes up after the ECU then the ECU might not see the throttle pedal and signal an error. So you would need to tie the throttle back to the ECU 5V in that case.

Good luck. I am watching your build with interest. An RX-8 is one of the cars on my short list for my next EV build.


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## kakheath (Jan 7, 2012)

Spyder.ev said:


> Ok guys a few pics,
> Gonna try and finish the wiring as far as i can tomorow,
> And mock up a brkt for the Vac pump.
> Then i can start on the Battery brkts and boxes,
> ...


You do impressive work Spyder. It looks like you and I are in a race now. Who will take their car for a drive first??? Just an FYI, constructing the battery boxes and getting the batteries all in place and hooked up takes the longest time of all. I wish you luck my friend. You are going to have a very nice ride when it's complete. Good luck.


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## dtmpower (Dec 15, 2009)

Spider

I see you are local to me in Southampton. Would it be ok to have a chat about local EV meets, or even arrange to take a look at your car. I am just starting out, getting some ideas, for an EV project of my own. 

I don't seem to be about to send you a PM on the forum, maybe you can send me a message. Thanks. John


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## dtmpower (Dec 15, 2009)

dtmpower said:


> Spider
> 
> I see you are local to me in Southampton. Would it be ok to have a chat about local EV meets, or even arrange to take a look at your car. I am just starting out, getting some ideas, for an EV project of my own.
> 
> I don't seem to be about to send you a PM on the forum, maybe you can send me a message. Thanks. John


Spider - would be great if we could catch up - your local to me and I could really do with some help on my project.


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