# 95 Metro lithium upgrade



## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

The motor: ADC 8'"

The controller: Raptor 1200

The charger: Manzanita pfc20

The batteries: 45 Tornado 100ah cells.

BMS: Cell log 8. I have been reading up on this, and like what I see. I will top balance the pack initially, and view it from time to time, but I do intend to use the high and low voltage signals ro protect my cells.

Update: I ended up installing an Orion BMS

The instrumentation: Looking for ideas. I have a dead Xantrex in there right now, so basically I have nothing. I am looking for ideas for simple cost effective display.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I can't live without my JLD404s. Can't beat it at $65.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

(plus the cost of a shunt)


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yes, plus shipping. < $90-100 all in.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Yea, these look like a good deal. I just came across some controversial discussion on this vs the evdisplay, so it just got more complicated for me. From what I understand, the evdisplay is made by an open source guy on this forum, which boosts his credibility in my opinion. Now I have to track this down and see who I want to do business with as well. Any comments on this are welcome.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I am seeing this meter at jack richards for 175$


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I think I like the jld404 more. Where do you get it for under 100$


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> The motor: ADC 8'"
> 
> The controller: Raptor 1200
> 
> ...


raptor 1200 in a metro? you still have a transmission?!? 

I have used the CycleAnalyst, which is very affordable shunt technology solution... The early one I bought was not build for HV so I have some problems with it floating past zero when charging, and it is less accurate when temp changes. The newer ones are better I think. I have a large display dash mount format one in the Miata which seems to be more stable.

I also have an evDisplay which is Hall technology was affordable for next conversion but have not used it yet.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

evmetro said:


> I think I like the jld404 more. Where do you get it for under 100$


Probably same place Jack gets his...lightobject is one hit above him on a google search.
You can also get a variety of compatible shunts there.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

It looks like jacks includes a shunt. The one for 68 does not say if it has a shunt. This car is equipped with a shunt with leads going to the inop xantrex. I do not know much about shunts yet, and I can not see any markings on the one I have. Is there a way to determine if this one will be appropriate? It is big and heavy and has a brown composite board and was used with 20 6 volt trojans.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Do you have a picture of it? Most American shunts are 50mv and not compatible with most Chinese meters which need 75mv shunts.

You need one sized for at least your average current, but don't get one under 200A as they're kinda flimsy. http://www.lightobject.com/Search.aspx?k=shunt

Also, note, the JLD404 is $65 here. What you're looking at for $68 is not the right meter.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)




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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yeah, looks like an American style 50mv shunt, likely 500A. Are you sure there aren't any markings under that crud somewhere?


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I looked everywhere. This thing was converted in 1999, and I have no idea when it went in. I can tell you that it is heavy though. Is there a good way to test it to see if it is any good? (I am not sure if they go bad) Just wondering if this could be what is wrong with the xantrex. The display is blank and dead, 12v were present on the back of the display.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

It's probably still good, but the only way to know for sure it's characteristics would be to apply a known current and measure the voltage drop. You'd have to be able to measure a 50mv drop under a 500A load to confirm my guess.

The shunt would only affect the reading on the Xantrex, not its display. If an LCD goes blank it's not getting power (bad fuse?) or part of the circuit is fried.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> It looks like jacks includes a shunt. The one for 68 does not say if it has a shunt. This car is equipped with a shunt with leads going to the inop xantrex. I do not know much about shunts yet, and I can not see any markings on the one I have. Is there a way to determine if this one will be appropriate? It is big and heavy and has a brown composite board and was used with 20 6 volt trojans.


if you already have a shunt, it will probably be ok as they are sized to max amps you expect to put thru producing a 'typical' voltage for the meter. likke a 500a-50mV is pretty typical. Going from memory, I think both the evDisplay and CycleAnalyst expect 0-50mV output to the meter.... not sure if they can handle 0-75mV....

the cycle analysts I know require that the shunt is on the NEGATIVE leg of the traction pack, I dunno about the other ones.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Here is an ebay link to a 1000 amp 75mv shunt you can use with the meter from lightobject. Buy the meter from them and get your shunt on ebay. I am using the 1000 amp but I am sure you could use the lower 800 amp too. There are a few different versions for $20 or less each on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000A-75mV-...219?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a39f35f3












Actually for this one its $27 bucks. 










http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mM5cIQvCCkwf1R73NGrWIFA.jpg


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Get one with the JLD direct from Lightobject

(and BTW, 50mV shunts work with them, you just have to play around with the scales on the JLD. Jack goes over this in one of his blogs).

500A:
http://www.lightobject.com/500A-75mV-DC-Shunt-P217.aspx

800A:
http://www.lightobject.com/800A-75mV-DC-Shunt-P686.aspx

1000A:
http://www.lightobject.com/1000A-75mV-DC-Shunt-P687.aspx


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Unless you're converting an Escalade, Hummer, or other inefficient monstrosity you don't need a shunt over 500A.

Like cable, they're sized for continuous/average current. A shunt shouldn't need to be the size of your hand.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

frodus said:


> Get one with the JLD direct from Lightobject
> 
> (and BTW, 50mV shunts work with them, you just have to play around with the scales on the JLD. Jack goes over this in one of his blogs).
> 
> ...


Yes as Frodus points out. Get them from one source.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Yes 500 amp 75mv volt shunts will do just fine if you never go above 500 amps on your current draw. Yes the 1000 amp shunts are rather large but not really an issue. If you nee one they work great. 

Pete 

Mine is a 1000 amp 75 mv shunt. I can max out at 950 amps. I have it set for 700 right now.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

My pack is a 3c/7c 100ah setup, so I can probably get by with a smaller shunt. The one that is there weighs about as much as the controller, so I will probably grab a new 500a shunt. Thanks for the replys. 

I got all the lead out of the car, and it looks like it is ready for a motocross. Looks like the suspension was beefed up to handle those 20 trojan t125s. Whoever converted this made a big battery tray where the back seat used to be, and my 45 100ah cells are smaller than the "bathtub" where the lead was. I plan an aluminum box with a WIDE flange to fit the bigger than needed hole in the floor. The exciting part is that there will be no batteries under the hood, so things will look pretty basic when you open the hood. It will also be nice to have all the cells in a single pack.

The aluminum spool gun got a work out today making the framework for the underhood components. I would like to get as much done before the cells get here, but I know they will be sitting on the power supply for awhile. The second build is nice because I know what to do with the cells this time. Get them balancing right away, and not the day I want to hook them up...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I ended up ordering the 65$ jld, and the 800 amp shunt from the same site. 25 bucks is pretty cheap for an ev part...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

A little progress.... I got some aluminum framework in for the underhood components.










Below you can see the pfc 20 and the raptor 1200 Below these, is the vacuum pump. I don't know who makes it, but it is loud and works. It is staying.










I finally got the batteries in for this today. 45 tornado 100ah cells. The bigger cells are for a different build that I have going with 36 200ah cells and an ac 50 kit.










Here is the proposed layout of the single battery box with all 45 cells.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

The hippies that converted this thing way back in the lead age hacked a huge hole in the floor to hold all those floodies. The primary structure was what looked like an old steel shelving unit, cardboard, duct tape and you name it, so the pic below is after it is gutted and you can see the beginning of the new structure.










This box tubing should hold the weight and hold the car together. Next it will need some sheet metal.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> The hippies that converted this thing way back in the lead age


lead age... love it. 
you might consider fabbing a plastic box with skirt to drop in that hole. Make the box tight on the cells, and install a skirt around edges to overlap the crater edges. 1/4" polypro or ABS is pretty easy to work with and heat-weld.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I made a simple rectangular box out of aluminum that will allow the entire pack to lift out in one peice with a cherry picker. The floor will get fabbed to accommodate the box. It will be really nice to have a one piece pack.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Got some more stuff done on this ride...










It holds a spare tire now










and a battery box... 










Here is a view of the bottom


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Cells in place. I went ahead and stuck the tiny bus bars that came with these cells on top of the ones I made.










I also swung by home depot and picked up the stuff I use to make my 50 amp connection... all of 20 bucks! I sandwich the male plug into the box with the lid. I use a hole saw to make the opening for the male prongs to stick out of the lid, and I drill holes all the way through the lid and through the back. I run bolts through the whole thing, and weld nuts to the back of the box so that I can hold it all together and onto the back side of the fuel pocket.










Here is how it looks installed. This pic is from another metro conversion that I did that is on the road now. Just hit those three bolts with an impact wrench or electric ratchet, and the complete box is in your hand in about a minute. You can then take the lid of the box and install whatever 220 plug that your heart desires. I stick with 50 amp welder because my shop has welders.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Here is how this thing looked when I bought it with dead lead.










Have a look at that bend in the strut... no wonder the wheel was rubbing on the chassis!










I straightened things out and picked up some stuff from pick n pull.



















I


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I did not want to get too carried away with making a show quality engine bay, but I gave it a little love on the bottom and gave it an undercoat layer.










Then started building. Those two big ass contactors are my AC mains. Only one of them comes on at a time since I have two charging inlets (110 and 220) that are wired in parallel and both have male pins. Without these contactors, you could plug in 220 and then read 220 on the male pins of the 110 charging inlet. Having two AC main relays allows whichever plug is not being used to be safe. I also have it wired so that you can make the stupid mistake of plugging in the both the 110 and the 220 at the same time. Both AC/DC power supplies would come on if you made that mistake, but only one contactor would come on.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I was able to salvage most of the 0/3 cable from this old lead sled, even though the component layout is way different in this lithium upgrade. It is a little dirty and dusty, but it works! The 8/3 extension cord wire for my AC circuits kinda matches the thickness of the 0/3 cable, so it all looks pretty uniform. That is 8/3 running from the charger to the AC main contactors, and from the contactors through the car to each of the two charging inlets. I still need to route my 12 volts to them from my two AC DC power supplies that get powered up from whichever charging inlet I choose to use. That aluminum square thing behind the tranny is the aux battery tray that holds a 26ah SLA battery.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Had to pick up a different DC DC converter since the one that came with the load of lead was meant for a lower voltage. The lead was 20 6v trojans, and this is 45 lithium cells. I was not particularly excited about the contactor that turned on the DC DC, but I went ahead and re used it. It is plenty old and dusty, so apparently it did the job for a long time. At least it is in a safer place now instead of behind the dash mixed up with the stuff back there. As far as I know, if the contactor fails, the contacts should weld themselves up, in which case I can look for the more appropriate unit. I could not find any identifying markings on this one, but the contacts are actually huge compared to the 80 amp 240 ones that I am using for the AC mains... Anyway, here is the DC DC mounted up. The aluminum mounting that I made for this is made from scraps of aluminum from my scrap box, and it is extremely light.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> Had to pick up a different DC DC converter since the one that came with the load of lead was meant for a lower voltage.... I could not find any identifying markings on this one, but the contacts are actually huge compared to the 80 amp 240 ones that I am using for the AC mains...


This looks like a contactor that most people use for a heater on/off... probably good for switching up to 20 or 30 amps at full DC pack voltage. But, I have to ask, why switch it on/off at all? why not have the dc-dc 'always on' when the main pack circuit is on? This would maintain the charge in a small aux battery, and make sure that all standby 12v loads are maintained like interior lights, radio stations, clock, etc.

I would recommend at least a small aux battery (I use a 4ah starter battery for ATVs) just to soak up voltage sag/spikes in the 12v system when vacuum pump clicks on/off.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have a row of toggle switches that I have installed to configure this thing for a variety of options. One of them is an on-off-on switch that allows me to select between having the DC DC come on with the ignition key or the aux battery, or to simply switch it off. I prefer having it come on with the key for normal operation, but if I want to turn it off the option is there. I will probably only use the aux battery to turn it on if I am doing maintainence on the car and don't want to have the key on.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Here is a shot of the aux battery sitting in the tray in the picture above.











Here is the 50 amp plug installed. When I make this car pretty, I just back out those three bolts and let the box dangle inside while I paint the fuel pocket.










Here are the "gateway" plugs. Although I am not really big on charging with 110v, every EV in North America needs one of these. I call it the gateway plug because it is the gateway to the largest charging grid on the planet. This unit in the picture is very special, because it has male pins that allow an ordinary 110v extension cord to be used, and the recessed pins are impossible to touch and get shocked from. If every new OEM EV was equipped with one of these guys, people would have fewer problems buying OEM EVs. This plug is what people in North America think of when they think about charging their power saws, cell phones and cars. No adapter, no big ass EVSE box thingy, no BS. Just plug it in when you get home, eat dinner, and go to bed. Like I said, I am not big on 110v charging, but I know what is essential for travel in N America in an EV. I do most of my charging with the 50 amp 220 plug.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Ok, I just read the entire thread for this rework / upgrade project. Since I've also followed your build that is way better than most cars on the road today, I am sure this one will turn out as a nice driver. 

You said you were using 45 100ah cells, so 144v, 14.4 kW battery pack. I'm just guessing here, but are you expecting ~ 45 miles range? 80% DoD and 250w per mile is how I got to {actually} 46.08 miles.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I am not well versed with DC motors, so I don't know how many watts per mile this rig will use. What I do know, is that my AC35/7601 in the other metro ran about 160kwh per mile. I usually like to calculate 200 wh/mile on a Metro, so I am going to assume for now that 14.4 Kwh times 80% is 11.5 kwh, divided by 200 kwh/mile is 57.6 miles maximum range, and I will probably keep it to 45 miles. I ended up getting an Orion for this rig, so I will have pretty good information available to view once I get it on the road.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

It is excellent to see this coming along so well. Little things always come along but you will know for next build what to do before you put it together. Grind it off a bit. Had to do that to the VW before. 

Pete


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I ended up sending the controller out for a rebuild, so I lost some time on this build. I bolted in my freshly rebuilt controller this morning, and was amazed at what it feels like to have a Raptor 1200 in lightweight lithium ride like a metro! It only lays down one black strip on the ground, but it will do it for an awful long time. It seems that this controller is a beast!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Well with 1200 amps on tap it should be. The Raptor is a great controller. What is your system voltage for that car?


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

45 100ah cells. Meter reads 151 volts. The Raptor 1200 in a car weighing less than 2000 lbs is enough to make a man giggle like a girl...


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> I ended up sending the controller out for a rebuild, so I lost some time on this build. I bolted in my freshly rebuilt controller this morning, and was amazed at what it feels like to have a Raptor 1200 in lightweight lithium ride like a metro! It only lays down one black strip on the ground, but it will do it for an awful long time. It seems that this controller is a beast!



good lord, 1200amp max ?! probably double stock torque at least.... be careful not to burn up your clutch, or break the transmission!

I am contemplating controller upgrade myself.  the Curtis 1221c works, and I get there, but its not 'impressive'. I am going to be helping a local high school build one with a Soliton Jr. 600amp controller that should be more than adequate.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I had to upgrade the main contactor. I have had two of the ev200 contactors weld together and the second one just cost me a few bucks for a capacitor inside the Raptor. My charger charged the controller through the welded contactor. All fixed again, and I have one of these now for a main contactor. It is taller than my aux battery that is sitting right next to it.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

hhhmmm, welding main contactors? why?

are you opening/closing under load?

...something not quite right here.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I do not know the history of the welded contactors. What I do know is that this car got a lot of EV miles over 12 years before I bought it, and that amost all the conversion work was remarkably shitty. Both of the contactors had broken mount holes, and looked really old.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> I do not know the history of the welded contactors. What I do know is that this car got a lot of EV miles over 12 years before I bought it, and that amost all the conversion work was remarkably shitty. Both of the contactors had broken mount holes, and looked really old.


ooooohhhhhhh, ok. i was afraid maybe you had things wired such that contactors were open/closing every time throttle ksi was at zero, there have been a couple people that have done that, and it really zaps the crap out of the contactors.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

She ain't pretty yet, but I put it together enough to drive around and shake out whatever problems it is going to give me.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Well this thing runs great and is really fun to drive, but one of the cells is weak and I am waiting for a new one to come from China. The manufacturer, Tornado, has agreed to stand behind their product and replace it. In the meantime, I can get into the paint work. This one will not be as in depth as my last one, but here goes. 

Lots of dents and scrapes to fix










I bought this rig wrecked and picked up the hood, left fender and left door from a white metro at pick n pull. I need to get all the insides of these parts painted blue so that I can close the door and only worry about painting the outside. In this next pic, I am getting rid of the hood emblem. I will weld up these holes. I really like not having emblems and moldings on my builds.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Still taking things apart and fixing dents. Here she is with all the glass out.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Still getting this one ready for paint. Every panel has a an unbelievable number of dings and dents.



















I have every thing primered now, just have to paint the insides of them the right color and hang them back on the car.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

wow
continue to be amazed with the 'concours d elegance' approach for a friggin GEO METRO.....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

evmetro said:


> ... The Raptor 1200 in a car weighing less than 2000 lbs is enough to make a man giggle like a girl...



my new favorite quote of all time I think.....

I'm giving serious thought to tossing the Curtis 1221 in mine and going to Zilla 1k


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

There is no way to fully describe what this kind of power is like in a Metro. You can be rolling along at about 25 mph in 2nd or third and the tires will light up and stay lit up when you nail it. I am not sure the formula to calculate HP, but 144 volts an 1200 amps is way overkill in a car this light. If you have testosterone in your body, it makes perfect sense. From what I can tell, it would not make much difference if you ran 1200 amps or 1000 amps. By all means, treat yourself to a big ass controller!


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

evmetro said:


> I am not sure the formula to calculate HP, but 144 volts an 1200 amps is way overkill in a car this light.


(144v * 1200a)/1000 * 1.33 = 230.4 hp

Of course, there may be a small amount of voltage sag at 1200a


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Got some color down. Many of the panels were white since this rig was wrecked when I bought it, and Pick n Pull donor car was white. Now the insides are blue.



















I added a reinforcement to the hole where my 110 charge plug mounts.


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Ooohh, sparkly blue. My favorite color! 
That's looking really good.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I took a little filler panel from below the tail light that had the original color on it over to my automotive paint supplier to have them match it up since the paint code was no longer affixed to my vehicle. I have never been too excited about the color of this Metro, but it looks like The color that my paint supplier mixed up for me is certainly not a good match. This could have been a pretty big problem if I had been wanting to just match up a section of the car for repair, but since this is a complete paint job the match is not really that important. Anyway, the color info on my can of base coat says it is from BMW, years 1999 to 2003. I clear coated the insides of the parts that I had shot the blue base on and now I can see the true color. Nothing like the color that I asked for, but I like it better and am going to run with it. In the pic below, you can see that the color is quite a bit different, depending on viewing angle. 



















You can see the original color on that filler panel that I am holding, and you can see how much different the color is with these two viewing angles. This paint will be too technical for me to paint it in pieces, all the panels will need to be on the car (except the bumpers) for this rig to match. I was after the original color so that there would be less to paint inside the door jambs, etc., but I will do the extra bit of work to get the whole car right. This thing should look a little classier with this paint compared to the original color.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I got the front and rear bumper covers for this rig from Pick n Pull, and they were textured raw plastic, and they had almost 20 years of scrapes and road rash on them. I like the painted look better, so these needed some love. The body filler does not stick to the raw plastic so I blew a coat of primer that does stick to plastic on. This will give me a base so that I can add filler to all the imperfections.










As you can see above, primer does not fill the imperfections. Below is how it looks after filling the imperfections, and blocking the primer. You can see a lot of the original black texture showing through where I have blocked.










Two bumpers ready for round two of the primer.










Now the imperfections are gone.










As soon as these are dry, I can final block them and they are ready for paint!


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Got a little paint work done on this one today...


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

This is going to be the world's only fully restored, show-ready Geo Metro.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

There is also one that I completed in my signature. That link is the build thread of a metro from start to car show.finish.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Here are all the panels for this rig in the base coat stage that dries flat. Hopefully they will be dry enough for the clear coat stage this evening, otherwise they will get cleared tomorrow.

Booth one: both bumpers, both fenders, hood, filler panels that go under the tail lights, and of coarse as we say on this site... the charge plug door.










here is a better view of the hood










Booth number two: both doors and the rear hatch.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Where the heck is that paint booth. I did not see that when I came over to your shop. Is that your booth or someone else there in your complex? 

Pete


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have a pretty good buddy network. The booth that the chassis is pictured in is in my complex, and the other two are a few blocks away at another buddy's shop. Three different booths.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

The clear turned out pretty sweet...



















The hood emblem holes were welded up and smoothed out, so here is a pic of the hood emblem done to my style... less is more










You can see the different lighting effects the shade of blue in this light..


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have had enough for today, but here is where I am leaving off for the night. Got a few panels back on. As usual, the blue looks different in both of these pics...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I will be wanting to install the glass pretty soon, so I needed to get it off to my tint guy. I like to get it all perfect before it is tinted so that I don't have to worry about scratching the fresh tint while prepping the install surface. A lot of folks overlook the glass when doing restorations, but if you do restore the glass too, it gives your ride a nicer look.

First I trim off the old urethane bead that held the glass to the car.










and then remove the molding










Then it takes about a half hour per window to polish it with super fine #0000 steel wool. I try to get it looking brand new










It took me at least a half day to get all the windows perfect inside and out. I took the 5 windows to my tint guy (hatch, 2 rear sides, 2 door) so that he can do the usual treatment that I do on all my builds. 50% (hardly anything) on the doors, 5% (limo dark) on the back 3 and the "fatty" on the windshield. The fatty is just an upper strip of tint that comes down just below the factory shade strip so that I don't ever need to use the sun visors. I have a new windshield getting delivered to my tint guy, so I will have all 6 windows back in a few days.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

evmetro said:


>


I see you have the same HF heater that I have been using in my garage the last few weeks.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Yea, those heaters kick ass. That pic that you quoted might have been nicer if the other electric metro that is done was not covered up with that plastic.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

The usual polishing for the tail lights.










And a bulb update to LED










Installed on the car. The wheels are starting to look ugly...


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Now what are you doing working on Christmas? Oh well. Merry Christmas. Now what are you gonna do with two electric cars? Lookin good. Compared to the AC-35, how is that AC-75 doing for you? 

Pete


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Agreed with Pete on looking for the comparison between the two AC versions.

And not to be overlooked, Merry Christmas.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Don't worry Pete, I was not really working on Christmas, LOL. I had those pics on my tablet from Christmas eve day, just had not gotten around to posting them here. It is remarkable to see the difference between this 1200 amp DC conversion and the 650 amp AC conversions that I have done. While neither of the AC35 or the AC74 have anywhere near the power to the wheels that this monster has, they are both very adequate and far exceed the performance of the ICE. The feel of the AC systems is much smoother and feels more professional than this big DC system. The AC35 and the AC74 deliver the same 650 amps @108 volts, so not much difference in performance, but there is more torque available on the AC74. I have a 3.79 ratio transmission freshly rebuilt and ready to load into that EV to replace the 4.39 ratio unit, so I will soon have more to report on the performance of the AC74 when coupled to the appropriate transmission to utilize all that torque. My hunch is that the DC conversion in this thread could benefit from that same ratio. As for the AC35, that unit is probably the best match for a metro for its weight, cost, and performance. I can't wait to get that conversion out for a test drive...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I got the glass back from my tint guy, and went ahead and got the new windshield in place, along with the cowl and the roof moldings that run along the side of the windshield.










I also picked up the more aerodynamic composite style headlights off of a Metro in Pick n Pull today. They polished up pretty nice.










The pattern that you see is a little different from the one on my other conversion. You can see that the other Metro has a clear view through to the bulb. Oh well. Lights are lights.... I can't wait to get these two cars side by side to see what color is better...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I picked up wheels and tires for this thing. 14x5.5 wheels, 185x65r14 tires.










and of course, a nice balancing.










I still need to mount the wheels and freshen up the brakes and bearings, but I took it for a cruise today. Fun!










Every time I revive a Metro, the headliner is hanging down. Seems like they must use crappy glue. A nyway, here we go again.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

It is taking awhile to get the wheels on because I am also putting in new brake pads and rotors, and I am having to modify the coils. I also like to pretty things up a little. Here is the drivers side...










Since this thing was hauling around 1650 pounds of lead, it had some really beefy coils in the rear. I chopped two rounds off of them to get the height to match up with the new weight of the 350 pound lithium pack. Not sure how these coils will handle yet, so I will need to drive it around a little. That thinner coil is from the front. 










.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

It sure took a lot of work to upgrade this thing from lead to lithium, but here are before and after shots...


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

You are not a technician. You sir, are a Magician.

That is one nice repair-conversion.


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## CrunchTime (Feb 13, 2009)

evmetro said:


> It sure took a lot of work to upgrade this thing from lead to lithium, but here are before and after shots...


Glad I went LiFePO4 in the end - nobody ever mentioned that using lead makes your fender and door crumple and your wheels fall off...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

It probably felt like an suv to the driver who ran into it. His car probably got pretty messed up too.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

I've read both Metro conversion threads as they went along, but if you mentioned this, I forgot. Are you doing these conversions for resale? Both of these EVs look better than what the OEMs send out the door.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Mark C said:


> I've read both Metro conversion threads as they went along, but if you mentioned this, I forgot. Are you doing these conversions for resale? Both of these EVs look better than what the OEMs send out the door.


evmetro's build IS more like a re-manufacture than a conversion.... but I hate to think how many hours he has into it! Thats a $50k metro he's got.  Mine is not nearly as pretty, purposely doing ONLY what I HAD to, it still took $12k in parts and 150 hours of labor. So, minimum sale price would be in the $15k range..... I have it for sale locally, but had no bites on this OR my Miata. But also not done a lot of marketing. Plan is to hold a couple lectures and see if I can develop my local market.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

Mark C said:


> I've read both Metro conversion threads as they went along, but if you mentioned this, I forgot. Are you doing these conversions for resale? Both of these EVs look better than what the OEMs send out the door.


Mark C, Thank you for the good words. My intent is to offer my conversion services for a fee, and to sell EV parts and components. My understanding of sound business practice is that one needs not only the technical skills to perform the contracted work and knowledge of the parts that are sold, but also the experience. When a customer's money comes into the picture, it is not the time to experiment and learn. These last two builds will inevitably be for sale, but they have been the research and development needed to satisfy the above prerequisites. If I was paying somebody to custom build an EV for me, or even do a simple conversion, I would want to see some kind of portfolio of other builds and I would need to see some of his work. I am searching for sensible and reliable parts and components to offer, ones that I have tested and used personally that I can feel good about offering to customers. I have a storefront website under construction and am developing relationships with vendors, and I am feeling pretty comfortable with my conversion skills now. I think I have something valuable to offer at this point, so stay tuned... There are two more builds under way that should broaden the knowledge even more; another Metro build with efficiency in mind, and a Cadillac with luxury and technology in mind.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

Thanks, and my sincere best wishes in this endeavor. 

I can imagine a potential customer coming to check out the idea of a conversion and then being offered a chance to see and drive an example of the work that could be expected. It's a lot of money to trust to any business, but much more difficult if you can't touch and feel examples of the craftsmanship.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> ... but I hate to think how many hours he has into it!


Whys that? the price of this education is priceless. His version of an education is far superior to what is currently available and costs a whole lot less. Really. He deserves a top A+ for the quality of work he has been doing and for the execution of the builds. Very well planned out and attention to detail.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I tried to leave behind a few items from the original conversion just for the fun of having some of its history retained, but the motor mount that was used in original hoaky conversion had to go. The one that mounts the end of the motor to the passenger side frame rail. Here is a pic of what they had used to hold the motor in with only two bolts going into the motor. I had to keep tightening the two bolts as the aluminum wore out under the bolt heads.










Yea, that is a piece of wood that was used as a spacer...










Here is the new mount. Luckily I did the motor compartment on this rig in primer... easy to match.










Here it is with the poly bushings installed.










and here it is in the car.  The original mount bracket was removed by whoever did the original conversion, so the mount welded to the frame rail is specifically for this mount.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I know there is some debate about rubber mount vs poly mount vs rigid mount, but I really like the feel of these poly bushings. A local 4x4 shop sells these DOM sleeve and bushing kits, so all you have to do is weld the DOM sleeve to your project and slide in the bushings.










They have some give for when the chassis flexes, but they are much stiffer than the rubber mounts. If you light up your tires or just apply lots of torque load to your drivetrain, the gear shifter does not even move around like it does with rubber mounts. It just makes your car feel like a heavier duty vehicle. Maybe "sporty" is the word...


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

I have always liked the wheels that I picked for the dark blue conversion in the background more than these wheels.










I have a '93 metro that is almost done that needed wheels, so I pulled these wheels off for the '93 since they will go better with the white paint job that I am doing on that one. If you can forgive me for using this EV for a workbench, here are the new wheels. I just did the wheel swap in the middle of my mess and have not even had this one out for a wash or test drive yet with the new wheels, but here they are.


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## Mark C (Jun 25, 2010)

A lot more Metros might have been sold had they looked as sweet as the ones you're converting do when they leave the confines of the shop. These both look very nice, but I agree with you on which wheels are nicer looking. Congratulations.


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## evmetro (Apr 9, 2012)

This should make up for the shot with all the dust and junk piled onto this EV. I took a couple of the EVs to a local car show today, so I had to get this one cleaned up.



















Here she is with her sister.


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