# Lotus Esprit Conversion



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Aquilante,

I hate to pour cold water on your dreams but you will end up with something heavier slower and less fuel efficient than the original Esprit.

The concept has a 47 hp IC engine - look at 47 hp - 35Kw gen sets - big and heavy!

A major manufacturer can make a hybrid work with marginally greater efficiency than an IC - but it takes millions!

You would be better building a BEV and mounting your gen set on a trailer for the occasions when more range is needed


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks Duncan, soon I will contact an italian manufacturer who actually build car conversion (from IC to EV).
I am very curious to verify what you say.
The Lotus car has more or less 300KW of power.
I think that for the Esprit 130/140 will be enough: I don't have to go to Le Mans..... 

in 2009 the car design firm Italdesign (Giugiaro) made this prototype
http://www.worldcarfans.com/109030417586/italdesign-giugiaro-namir-hybrid-concept-animated-video

this is a computer graphics animation but they really build the car.
it seems to work.

I know that the perfect solution will be a full EV but battery costs, weight and autonomy are great problem these days.
Tesla Roadster is a great car but it seems that if you drive it hard you have a quite limited fun time.

Damn! today is sunday and I must wait for tomorrow......


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

It can be done, but it will be very hard and expensive.

If you use an internal combustion engine, there will be little room for the electric stuff. Notice the Nash-Frasier car used wheel motors which got them out of the engine compartment. Right now there are no decent wheel motors available to the public that I know of.

Without wheel motors you are trying to cram a generator AND an electric drive train in the car and there won't be enough room.

It will DEFINITELY cost more to build a hybrid than an electric vehicle since you will have to buy all the electric stuff PLUS the generator stuff. 

You need to be super technical to pull this off.


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

costs are the major issue for sure.
I need someone able to make calculation about KW, KWh, A, Ah and all other thing like that.

regarding room for engine and motor I think that it shouldn't be a problem: someone puts a IC V12 in the rear of an Esprit like mine!

Thanks anyway!


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

You should be able to duplicate that $400,000 show car that has state-of-the-art technology without any problem, any DIY mechanic that can turn a wrench could build one for $4,000 in a few weeks, just ask a few questions and you can figure it out. Just need a little motor and a generator in back and some old forklift parts.



aquilante said:


> costs are the major issue for sure.
> I need someone able to make calculation about KW, KWh, A, Ah and all other thing like that.
> 
> regarding room for engine and motor I think that it shouldn't be a problem: someone puts a IC V12 in the rear of an Esprit like mine!
> ...


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

nimblemotors said:


> You should be able to duplicate that $400,000 show car that has state-of-the-art technology without any problem, any DIY mechanic that can turn a wrench could build one for $4,000 in a few weeks, just ask a few questions and you can figure it out. Just need a little motor and a generator in back and some old forklift parts.


that's interesting.
I saw many thread here about forklifts: are they a good source for useful hardware?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

aquilante said:


> I saw many thread here about forklifts: are they a good source for useful hardware?


Sure, but not for the project you describe in post #1. For that you need a million dollar budget and professional engineering.


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

In America this is called "sarcasm". He is saying that it is impossible given your budget and expertise. I believe you could study up and build an electrical car as many on this site have done, and maybe even add a range-extending generator, but the project you propose would be both very expensive and very technical.

If you hope to build an electric car, you will have learn enough to run the calcs yourself. It is not that hard and there are many good sources on the web.

Cheers.



nimblemotors said:


> You should be able to duplicate that $400,000 show car that has state-of-the-art technology without any problem, any DIY mechanic that can turn a wrench could build one for $4,000 in a few weeks, just ask a few questions and you can figure it out. Just need a little motor and a generator in back and some old forklift parts.


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

ruckus said:


> In America this is called "sarcasm". He is saying that it is impossible given your budget and expertise. I believe you could study up and build an electrical car as many on this site have done, and maybe even add a range-extending generator, but the project you propose would be both very expensive and very technical.
> 
> If you hope to build an electric car, you will have learn enough to run the calcs yourself. It is not that hard and there are many good sources on the web.
> 
> Cheers.


 oh..... here in Italy we have many different ways to call it....
I'll search around for information before give up!
thank you


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

just talk to a manufacturer who make EV conversion.

60KW motor (probably I need a slightly big one) - $4.000
Controller - $4.000
Batteries (Lithium) - $10.000 
Other electrical stuff - $1500

It's not cheap but it can be done....


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

aquilante said:


> just talk to a manufacturer who make EV conversion.
> 
> 60KW motor (probably I need a slightly big one) - $4.000
> Controller - $4.000
> ...


Hi aquilante,

What you outline above could be a good estimate of the main components for a conversion which would yield mediocre performance. But a far cry from this: 



aquilante said:


> 2) Build a long range car with the handling of a proper sportscar...........connected to a generator. This will be the charger for the battery.......118 KW (160HP) and with this power the car speed was 125 Mph (200 Km/h).
> So, more or less, this is the power I need.


That is all we are trying to tell you.

Good luck,

major


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks Major, I've to work hard on it.
I just talk by phone with that guy so I must meet him to define details.

I know that's not easy but it's a challenge for sure!

My idea of "good handling" is a car with a quick response to accelleration.
Pure speed it's no so important: our speed limit on highway is 80 mph.
They told me that with a 90KW motor they made a car really fun to drive.
I am gonna to have a test ride!


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes, you are on the right path. Talk to some experts and go for a test drive.

Keep your expectations realistic. A $200,000 car is going to be $200,000. 

I disagree with Major that $20k will only get you mediocre results. I think you would be very pleased with the results.

Where in Italy are you? My father in-law grew up on the north coast of Sicily.

Are there many electric cars in Italy?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

ruckus said:


> I disagree with Major that $20k will only get you mediocre results.


Compared to his stated objectives


> a long range car with the handling of a proper sportscar...........connected to a generator......car speed was 125 Mph (200 Km/h).


 the result from a $20K conversion will be mediocre 



ruckus said:


> I think you would be very pleased with the results.


Yeah, he may like what he ends up having. After most guys sink that money and effort into a conversion, they tend to like the results.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I would think that in Italy you just need sharp acceleration and quick steering in town, and good bumpers. Top speed doesn't even figure.





major said:


> Yeah, he may like what he ends up having. After most guys sink that money and effort into a conversion, they tend to like the results.


Whether they like it or not, eh, major?


I know I will love mine even if it is complete rubbish and becomes a pain in the neck to own, I will still love it.


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

@ruckus - my budget for a standard IC restoration is not so far from money figure they told me. Higher but not impossible.
I'll check what can be done with that money (using a lot of "lateral thinking" of course)

I am from north Italy, near Venice

@Woodsmith & Major
Yes, handling is a matter of acceleration and ability to make turns keeping the car on the road.
Pure speed is another thing.
That 125 Mph is from original car.
I definitely prefer a car that makes 0-60 in 5 sec and let me overtake easily than a superfast car that you can only use on track or on german highways.

@Woodsmith
I live in the north of Italy so bumpers are not so important.
In south Italy instead.....


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Ciao Aquilante.

I lived and worked in Italy for a few years, and have family and work there still (in the EV business).
I'm curious as to how you will make this vehicle legal on the road once it is made? I understood it was not possible to do this, and actually spent 6 months trying (without sucess) to export a converted Aprilia there for a customer. We really tried everything, but it seems the only way would have been for Aprilia to have fitted all the parts themselves and subitted formal documentation! None of the contacts I, or the Italian customer had could help at all.
Hope you have a plan, hope you have a plan others can use too!


Steve


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Aquilante,

You can make a fast - or at least nippy - electric for ~ $20,000
(My budget is ~ $10,000 - and I hope it will be quick)
BUT
you will have to sacrifice range - and any range extending generator will be on a trailer

If you can live with 50 miles range and pull a trailer when you are going further then you can make your Lotus into a rapid wee car

Look up the Tesla for what can be made with serious money

Incidentally - the motor you are looking at is probably AC
AC = sophisticated, nice, expensive
DC = cheap, powerfull, barbaric
You choose!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

@Jozzer
Burocracy in Italy is crazy!
The only way to have a street legal veichle is via the german TUV.
Even there it's not easy but, if you know someone who live there, it's possible to register the car at his name and then "buy back" the car.

Luckly I have a friend who live in Italy but also german citizen.

The Company I contacted for information about EV conversion has links in Germany.
I'll try to obtain those names.

@ Duncan
The question of range extender is the key.
without it probably I will never go on.
I don't want a ton of batteries on my car.

Lotus Engineering with this concept http://www.ubergrun.de/lotus-evora-414-e-hybrid/ has choosen a small 1.2 liter engine tuned to run at 3500 rpm giving 47 CV (34KW)
with this small IC engine they keep the batteries in charge.
Are they crazy?
Are they lying?

Here in Italy motorscooter are very popular.
A 500cc engine has more than 50CV.
Why an engine like that it is not useful for this purpose?
If Lotus claim to use a 1.2lt 34KW for a 300KW motor system why do I need a trailer for my 90KW stuff?
With a range extender on board I will need only 20 miles range on batteries.
I'm really trying to understand this.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Aquilante

Using petrol through a generator to power your car gives a *very low* overall efficiency compared to driving direct

A Lotus is a small car - you will probably retain the gearbox, the motor will replace the engine
You will then be trying to fit in 45 to 90 large batteries (dependent on voltage)(the more the better)
10Kwhrs = 30-50 miles = 100Kg

You will be struggling to get the batteries on board! 

Then you want a gen set with radiator, alternator, fuel tank, air flow for the radiator 

Get yourself a plastic model Esprit, make some model batteries and motor and see how to fit them all in!

Lotus is starting from scratch - they will be designing spaces for things right from the start - and spending MONEY!! 

Try with a model first - the Tesla which is a lotus shell has 53Kwhrs on board so it can be done
(No gearbox and a motor controller that costs $25K - if it was available)


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

thanks Duncan.
I really have to talk a couple of hours with an engineer to overview the whole thing.

Lotus Evora is not a new project: it was born in 2008 as standard IC car
and in the rear there is less room for engine compared to an Esprit.

Let me think about this.....


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Two shots of the donor car.

As you can see, the car is splitted in two parts: body and chassis.
Once you have removed the body the chassis is completely accessible so it's really easy to work around.

I'm thinking about to use the space inside the main beam to place the batteries.
Now inside the beam there are the gear linkage and the radiator plumbing.
Removing from there the water tubes I think there will be a lot of space for battery cells like the Headway.

Another option (I have to check) could be to place the traction motors inside the front part of the beam using somenthing like two WarP7 linked together in series so there would be more free space behind for the range extender.
what do you think about this?

Radiator for the range extender ICE could be in the rear booth (to reduce plumbing weight)

The engine should be around 330/350lbs
Then I can remove the exhaust, change the old and heavy wheels with somenthing lighter.
The interior will be similar to the attached shot of my Lotus Elise


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

I really appreciated your comments.
They help me to start to see things in a more practical way.
I red a lot on this forum and on the internet and I found many interesting informations.

Let me restart from a different point.

1) budget
Since this is my first conversion a DC system would be a better thing

2) motor
Kostov K9 or WarP9 would be ok (or the two WarP7 linked option - see above post)
rwaudio placed in his Porsche 944 a Warp11 and in his plan it will give a lot of KW in power, well above what you see in the specs.
I don't understand yet how it's possible but for me is ok: it means that I don't need a monster motor.

3) Looking at a dyno test of my car (Lotus Elise with 88KW) I found that I usually use a range from 30 to 60 KW. Rarely more than 70.
an overtake it's a matter of 5 sec

4) In the spreadsheet about KW usage I found here, I saw that for a 1000lbs car like mine I need somenthing around 45KW to mantain 80mph

5) for my range extender I found this http://www.sogagroup.com//?id_pagina=7&id_pagina_2=22&id_pagina_3=44&id_pagina_4=71&Lang=_1 (see attached file)
they are brushless alternator that (if I understood the specs) can give 40KW at 1800rpm at high voltage
I have to talk to someone of the company about tech and costs
It's not light in weight but it could be worse.
It's quite compact (20-inch in length)
I don't know how many KW I need to spin the alternator (maybe around 40?)

6) Batteries
With the 40KW range extender in place I think I will need less batteries
An autonomy of 20 miles could be ok (just the miles to find the next gas station if I go out of fuel)
I have to calculate di Ah and the correct voltage of the pack

7) for the ICE I'm oriented to small engines from a junkyard: 
there is a 3-cylinder from Daihatsu with 50KW that could be ok
there is even a small diesel engine from Mercedes Smart: it's a turbocharged 800cc with 40KW and 130 Nm of torque at 2500 rpm.
I don't know if it is enough.



These are the new basis of the project.
Please keep coming your comments and suggestions.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Aquilante

Your numbers look OK

Is that your car - or just some photos you found?

If its your car make some foam and cardboard models of the motors, batteries, gen set...
and spend a few hours seeing where things can go.
A small car is surprisingly difficult to package, everything is the wrong size and shape to go where it "should" go

If its not your car you still need a plastic model to play with

Don't forget you will be changing this as you go along - as you package things remember you will almost certainly have to be able to take it back out again to fix/improve it


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi Duncan,
yes, that's my car.

as soon as I will define di setup of the system I'll make some cardboard models of everything.

I have problem to define the right amount and type of batteries.
sometimes turns out that I have to spend 50.000$ in lithium and sometimes that I have 3tons of batteries on board.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi
Very nice build! I tried to get one but could not find a decent example that i could afford. Went for Jaguar xjs instead. I´ll convert that for the summer if i can find the time.
My Range Rover conversion does 90kmh with 45kw so you should get much faster with same power, just to help you figure your needs.
Regards, Harri


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

Nice car.

You could do a lot to get better mileage from the current car. Check out ecomodder.com 

I am somewhat doubtful a generator engine, generator, electric motor, and batteries will all fit in that chassis. You will still need the shifter linkage for the transmission and possibly the radiator tubing since you will still have a ICE engine.

Your proposed system will DEFINITELY increase weight, which will decrease performance and mileage over the stock system. Please realize that if you build a series hybrid as you are suggesting, that the engine need not create the same horsepower (KW) as the current motor, or there would be NO advantage to going hybrid. The motor should be sized for average KW needed to maintain highway cruising speed. Bursts of speed can come from the battery. You could even size the engine much smaller, and it would act as a range-extender/backup power source. 

$10,000 in lithium should get you almost 200km if you keep your speed reasonable. With a range-extending generator that produces half of your highway kw you could either go 400km, or reduce the battery in half and still get a range of 200km.

Use this calculator to find your highway kw:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php
You will find that the kw increases EXPONENTIALLY with speed over 100kph.


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi ruckus,
it's not easy I know but 200km (at 10.000$ of batteries) are not enough.

sometimes I have to go to Milan for work reasons: going there and come back are more than 500km in a day.
The idea to have a generator on board is to be sure to came back home.

I'ts a great challenge!
Luckly the car is quite light.

Today I get the cost for the generator:
42KW - 130kg - 3000$ 

This forum is a big source of informations
My idea of the project start to be a little more clear


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

I would like to have a nimble car with brisk acceleration instead of a fast highway car.
If I have to choose I prefer to do 0-60mph in 6 sec and then 70 on the highway.

highway is boring even at 100.


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

If you go to ecomodder, you will see a short discussion of my Porsche Boxster,
which I am planning building as a fast gas-electric hybrid street/racer.

My approach is to use a Prius transaxle, a big bank of ultracapitors and a small pack of A123/Thundersky batteries, and a 1.0L turbocharged ICE.
It is basically taking the Prius design, and bumping up the power by 4x or 10x in both gas engine and electrical power. 

Building a car like this is nothing close to off-the-shelf, it is totally custom and experimental, and thus there is no simple answer on how to build one. It will be very expensive, even if you have skills to do much of it yourself. 

You might also look at my MGeo project, which is just a ICE car that I hope will get 80-100mpg. Strip down a car as light as possible and use a very small engine, and improve the aerodynamics, and it can get good MPG. For long distances, an EV just doesn't work unless you have a very very large and expensive battery, aka a $100k Tesla.





aquilante said:


> I would like to have a nimble car with brisk acceleration instead of a fast highway car.
> If I have to choose I prefer to do 0-60mph in 6 sec and then 70 on the highway.
> 
> highway is boring even at 100.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Aquilante

_*Sometimes I have to go to Milan for work reasons: going there and come back are more than 500km in a day.
The idea to have a generator on board is to be sure to came back home.*_

That is where a generator on a trailer would come in handy - a nice light nippy EV for normal use
When you have to take the highway through to Milan hitch up the trailer

Have you driven with a small trailer? - you can almost forget its there - until you come to reverse it!
If you can't get the hang of reversing simple unhook it and move it manually - a 300Kg trailer is easy to move manually

Beware of the armchair warriors who will tell you what they are going to do!!
I consider myself a deckchair warrior - my car is 80% (OK 70%) done


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

The small trailer is of course a practical solution but ..... 
a Lotus Esprit with a trailer.... it's quite embarrassing....  unless you have a Caterham 7 on it! 

to have more space for all the stuff a six wheel car would be glamorous but I can't imagine the costs!



from rough calculations it comes out that the new full system will add 400/500lbs to the original weight of 2000lbs.
I will end up with a 2500lbs car: not bad anyway


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

nimblemotors said:


> If you go to ecomodder, you will see a short discussion of my Porsche Boxster,
> which I am planning building as a fast gas-electric hybrid street/racer.
> 
> My approach is to use a Prius transaxle, a big bank of ultracapitors and a small pack of A123/Thundersky batteries, and a 1.0L turbocharged ICE.
> ...


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

Duncan, are referring to me as an armchair warrior? 



Duncan said:


> Hi Aquilante
> 
> _*Sometimes I have to go to Milan for work reasons: going there and come back are more than 500km in a day.*_
> _*The idea to have a generator on board is to be sure to came back home.*_
> ...


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

This approach will add a lot of weight to the car, which will make it harder to accelerate, what advantage does it have?
You would need to significantly downsize the existing ICE to reduce its weight. 



aquilante said:


> nimblemotors said:
> 
> 
> > If you go to ecomodder, you will see a short discussion of my Porsche Boxster,
> ...


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

do you mean to use the Prius transaxle at rear?
uh, I see...

my idea is to use a small transaxle at front removing the gear and keeping only differential.
ok for capacitors and small batteries pack.

the original Lotus Engine is 250 lbs WITH ancillaries so it's not so heavy.
it has 117KW that you can easily tune to 130.

the front motor would just kick in to help the ICE to reach it's torque range: with torque from electric motor it would be a matter of one second burst even if the ICE is completely out of torque.

the tricky thing is to make the two motors working together.
probably using something able to recognize how fast the throttle pedal is pushed down.....


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

So you are not looking to increase your fuel efficiency?
You just want a faster car?



aquilante said:


> do you mean to use the Prius transaxle at rear?
> uh, I see...
> 
> my idea is to use a small transaxle at front removing the gear and keeping only differential.
> ...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

*Duncan, are referring to me as an armchair warrior? *

Who? Me? The very idea!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

nimblemotors said:


> So you are not looking to increase your fuel efficiency?
> You just want a faster car?


the first idea was to use the efficiency of the electric motors using a small ICE only for batteries reecharging.
An ICE well tuned has a better fuel efficiency.

I think that is still a good idea but I have to solve problems of costs, weight and space.


-------
The second concept is quite intriguing because it has three options:
1) full electric (low speed, urban use)
2) full ICE (for highways or long trips)
3) combo (for brisk accelleration or generally speking to help the to gain rpm)

The big problem is that I have to remove completely the existing front end replacing it with something different from another car.
I have to check if this then let me have a legal car....

------
a full EV option is under evaluation....


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Aquilante

_*The second concept is quite intriguing because it has three options:
1) full electric (low speed, urban use)
2) full ICE (for highways or long trips)
3) combo (for brisk accelleration or generally speking to help the to gain rpm)

The big problem is that I have to remove completely the existing front end replacing it with something different from another car.
I have to check if this then let me have a legal car....*_

You have a Lotus!!!!

If you are going down these routes sell it and buy an escort or something!

And you were worried about pulling a trailer!!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi Duncan, the second concept can't be done due to massive modifications required.
The idea is not bad in general: 4WD is a quite common layout for high end sportscars.

Starting from a stock front traction car would probably easier because at rear you have almost nothing.

Anyway, let's back to the original path!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

some shots from 2011 Geneva Motorshow

Lotus Evora 414 hybrid with on board range extender


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## Pi3141 (Jan 17, 2010)

Hi Aquilante,
Congrats on you car choice!

I Have a Lotus Excel which has been a pipe dream of mine to convert for over 10 years.











My excuse, apart from money, is I'm still researching my design!!
　
A good source of Lotus parts for your car is Lotusbits.com they are about 1 hour from me and are basically a scrap yard for old Lotus.

Anyway, have you seen the Zirtek Lotus Elise?

From Wiki-



> Zytek Lotus Elise
> The Zytek Lotus Elise is an electric sports car jointly produced by Lotus and Zytek, from 1998 and discontinued in 2003.
> Its 70 kilograms (150 lb) extruded aluminium space frame and lightweight composite body shell are factors in its low curb weight of 875 kilograms (1,930 lb). 250 nickel-cadmium batteries provide 300 volts (at full charge) to two Zytek oil-cooled brushless DC motors, which deliver a total power of 150 kW (200 hp) and torque of 100 N·m (74 lb·ft). These motors are each mated to a single-speed, fixed ratio transmission with an aluminium gear. Its acceleration time from 30 to 70 miles per hour (48 to 110 km/h) is 5 seconds, and from 0 to 90 miles per hour (140 km/h), 11.2 seconds. The car is governor-limited to 90 miles per hour (140 km/h) to conserve charge. The range per charge is typically 100 to 120 miles (160 to 190 km) and the car can be re-charged within an hour.
> There is an example of the Zytek Elise on display at the Heritage Motor Centre.
> Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise




You could easily emulate this, quite cheaply and get a working EV going then think about modifying.

Have you seen the Honda 'Suitcase Generators' modify one of those and stick it in your boot for range extender.
It should be enough to 'limp' home on.



> Honda Portable Silent Generator EU20i: The quietest in its class !!!!!
> Delivering 2000 watts of portable power, the EU20i is the ultimate leisure generator for the more demanding user.


I believe the Renault Kangoo EV had a small ICE for limping home? Can you get one out of them?

Anyway - good luck!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi P31,
Lotusbits... I often look at their site for parts.
Lucky you...

Zytek Elise was interesting and in a sense was not bad compared to Tesla Roadster - 10 years before...

2Kw are not enough.
For my car more or less I need 40/45KW to keep 80/90 mph
Evora 414 uses a 35KW power generator to run the car

of course, you are not always on highways, but 30kw I think is the minimum for a 2000lbs car like the Esprit.
Not easy solution to find.

Looking on internet I found some interesting solutions using microturbines, revised Wankel engine and even an compress-air motor.
not for DIY and lot of money to spend


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## Pi3141 (Jan 17, 2010)

aquilante said:


> Looking on internet I found some interesting solutions using microturbines, revised Wankel engine and even an compress-air motor.
> not for DIY and lot of money to spend


Very interesting!

I too looked at similar.

Regarding the Wankel, I found a company producing small Wankel Motors that I though could be used as a generator in a hybrid system. But they were expensive.

In case you don't know - Norton motorcycles used 600cc Wankel Rotary engines, I was thinking about buying a bike and pulling the engine. But then Norton closed dow, the old bikes are rare now and expensive.

Nortons machine tooling got autioned off and someone bought the machine to produce those 600cc wankel engines.

There was a Moto Guzzi I believe that used a Rotary Engine, can't think of the model now.

Its well worth looking into to!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

thanks Pi3141, the motorcycle option is also unser study.

there are 900cc from Yamaha able to give 100CV at full throttle.
they are of course quite small and not so expensive.

Standard Wankel has many problems about fuel and oil consumption but I think it's a great solution because it is small and powerful.

New companies are developing this engine for better result


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

Atkins makes a smaller 1-rotor 13B rotary, not too expensive really,
I believe they are used in some small airplanes.

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/index.php?pag=14



aquilante said:


> thanks Pi3141, the motorcycle option is also unser study.
> 
> there are 900cc from Yamaha able to give 100CV at full throttle.
> they are of course quite small and not so expensive.
> ...


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

atkins rotary is on google but the links brings to an empty page....
maybe the company is closed....

I'll check later

thanks


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi

_*Looking on internet I found some interesting solutions using microturbines, revised Wankel engine and even an compress-air motor.*_

Micro-turbines are only efficient if you are using or re-generating the heat - the regenerators are much more bulky than the turbine

Wankels are inherently inefficient - low expansion ratio - thats why their exhausts are so hot

Air motors use compressed air as a fuel - batteries are lighter!


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## aquilante (Feb 12, 2011)

big problem yes.
for a range converter, pistons are probably still the solution.

about compress air motors I found this
http://www.engineair.com.au/

from DIY point of view is SciFi.
they don't sell single pieces

the motor itself seems interesting in its concept
don't know how many KW it can make.
it's light and a bin full almost of nothing can't weight a ton...

not for us, anyway...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

*and a bin full almost of nothing can't weight a ton..*.

Air weighs 1.2kg/m3 - air cars use air at 300 bar = 360Kg/m3 - 
Which is the amount to be equivalent to 1 gallon of petrol 

360Kg - and thats just the air not the tanks to contain it


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## Rich02si (Feb 22, 2011)

I would look into a motocross engine or small displacement sportbike. High kw per kg. Over in Europe you have to many great small displacement motorcycle engines. Say an Aprilia SXV 450 makes 45kw and is a relatively light package.. And is fuel injected. Though one thing to think about is making it legal for the road. Motorcycle engines don't have to follow as strict emissions standards as cars. So might want to look into CO2 levels.


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