# Evnetics Soliton availability



## Roderick (Dec 8, 2013)

Semper Vivus said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was just looking around for DC controller options and I am wondering about availabilty of the Soliton controller.
> Some time ago thay were available in every online store, now it's a bit harder to find.
> ...


I hear they have stopped production some point last year. 
As for the availability, EV Source or EV west might have few left. 
you could always find 2nd hand here as well.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yeah, we stopped making the Soliton controllers in early 2015. If you are in Germany you will need the EMC-compliant version made by Rebbl unless the vehicle will not be driven on the road in the EU.

Sorry, but Soliton controller sales dropped off steeply over the course of 2014 so we made a tactical decision to move into a completely different market (locomotive drive systems). Service is still available for Soliton controllers, though the turnaround time is much longer now.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Is there no longer a plan to sell the Soliton controller design to another company?


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## minispeed (Jun 30, 2013)

I checked with both (evwest evsource) about the Jr, both list it and would let me add to cart. Neither have stock, neither offered a soliton 1 as available (but I didn't ask directly). Evwest said it's basically zilla only foy DC but they can sell an AC kit cheaper.


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## Boxster-warp (Jun 22, 2014)

Helle
Evwest have netgain Controller in the Shop.
Greetings Boxsterwarp


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Is there no longer a plan to sell the Soliton controller design to another company?


I'd say the chances of that happening at this point are close to zero.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> I'd say the chances of that happening at this point are close to zero.


That's too bad, it was/is a great controller. My Soliton Jr. has worked flawlessly for several years and I was hoping to eventually upgrade to a Soliton 1.

The 100 year old Zilla doesn't interest me much so I guess my next conversion will have to be AC whether I like it or not. Better start saving my pennies...


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

Have you checked out the Zeva 1,000 amp controller? It is only a max 175v controller, but I have been eyeing it for a while now, considering it.

http://www.zeva.com.au/index.php?product=121

The attractive thing to me, is that $1,595 in AUD is around $1,210 USD. (Right this minute.)
Which is the cheapest 1,000 amp controller that isn't a kit that I have seen so far.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

akseminole said:


> Have you checked out the Zeva 1,000 amp controller? It is only a max 175v controller, but I have been eyeing it for a while now, considering it.
> 
> http://www.zeva.com.au/index.php?product=121


Does anyone on here have experience with the Zeva controller? Seems like a great choice for a daily commuter conversion, though I am curious how it would fare in a more performance minded application.

I, too, planned to save up for the Soliton 1, but was put off when I found out they ceased production. Even if I still found one, that is a lot of money to invest into something with uncertain future support. Plus since it is my first conversion, I decided I would rather go with a more budget friendly controller the first time around, since I will not be needing more than 160V. The catch is that I would also like to take the car to some drifting and autocross events, so the more Amps it can handle the better.

At the moment I have narrowed my choices to the Zeva and the Synkromotive controllers.

If you are looking for a high power DC performance controller, the Zilla and the Netgain WarP-Drive are your options.


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## akseminole (Jan 5, 2014)

Last July, Zeva posted on here about wanting a diyelectriccar tester to buy a controller and do a write up. I'm still waiting for the writeup.. I wonder if anyone did buy a reduced price controller, it seemed like a hell of a deal.

According to the MC1000C manual, it is capable of 1,000 amps for 1 minute and 300 amps continuous. 

What I find even more attractive than the prices, is the touch screen can bus interface that you can program the controller from. Also, it seems relatively easy to set up. The touch screen interface: http://www.zeva.com.au/index.php?product=119

Remember, the prices on the website are in Australian dollars, so they may not be as expensive as it looks at first blush.

I really just wish I could find a review from anyone who has one.


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

akseminole said:


> Have you checked out the Zeva 1,000 amp controller? It is only a max 175v controller, but I have been eyeing it for a while now, considering it.
> 
> http://www.zeva.com.au/index.php?product=121
> 
> ...


It would be great to hear some real life experience with this controller. Based on the specs and the pictures of the controller my initially take is that it likely has significantly lower performance then the soliton Jr.

The relatively low voltage along with the continuous current rating of 300 amps isn't very impressive. The peak current of 1,000 amps sounds good but I have trouble believing that it can hold 1,000 amps for 1 minute without having significant thermal issues. Even my soliton Jr. with liquid cooling struggles to stay cool under load and the Zeva doesn't seem to have much in the way of cooling. 

My guess is this controller probably performance similarly to the old Curtis controllers or perhaps the Logisystems revised version (but hopefully more reliably). 

It's good to see another company developing a low cost controller but I'd prefer if they charged a bit more money and gave us a liquid cooled controller that could handle over 600 amps continuous.


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## zeva (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi folks, someone from AEVA brought this thread to my attention so I thought I should chime in.

I can sympathise with Tesseract’s comments about (DC) controller sales dropping off over the last couple of years. I suspect it’s partly because the AC options are becoming more compelling, and partly because a lot of would-be converters can now just buy a production EV instead.

I started making controllers in 2010, though the 1000A version only came out in 2014. Most controllers over the years have gone to the Australian market, plus a few ‘600s to New Zealand and South Africa. Shipping is a bit pricey for overseas customers, something like US$100. There weren’t any takers for that half-price-for-review MC1K offer from a while ago - then I think everyone (including me) forgot about it. I guess that means it’s still up for grabs?

I do agree with Matej’s comment that they’re more suited to commuter conversions than performance applications, where higher continuous power is needed (and hence water cooling is important). But the “modus operandi” for commuter vehicles is a burst of power while accelerating, then relatively low continuous power. That said, the controller housings are compatible with external water cooling blocks - EV Works here in Perth have machined a few up over the years, and it raises the continuous current rating considerably (something like double).

Since there are quite a few tech-heads on this forum, FYI the ZEVA controllers do use a power stage electrically similar to the old Curtis controllers, but with more modern, efficient semiconductors, and a microcontroller-based logic board. The MC1K has 16x IRFP4668 MOSFETs for the low side (giving a “wide open” on-resistance around 0.5mOhm) and 16x STTH6002 diodes on the high side.

AFAIK the Solitons and HV Zillas are IGBT based, which come into their own at higher voltages, but IGBTs are (rather a lot) less efficient around the 150V mark. IGBTs often have a voltage drop around 1.5-2V, which means 3-4x more heat at 1000A. At lower current, the difference only widens - e.g at 300A, MOSFETs generate ~45W of heat vs 450W+ for IGBTs.. though the overall difference is not quite so stark because both also have freewheel diodes producing heat. Anyway, that’s part of why the ZEVA controllers get away without so much cooling.

Happy to answer any questions people might have about the ZEVA controllers, including more technical design stuff. I’ll see if I can chase up some independent comments from one of the MC1K owners here in Australia too.


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

Ok, can I accept the half price offer for the 1000 A controller? I have 120 Ah 160 V leaf pack, and kostov K11 alpha in toyota celica 1997  

If it's still on, of course


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

riba2233 said:


> Ok, can I accept the half price offer for the 1000 A controller? I have 120 Ah 160 V leaf pack, and kostov K11 alpha in toyota celica 1997
> 
> If it's still on, of course


Cool test setup for that controller.
Does your motor have windings for lower voltage, because for a standard alpha 160 is quite low?


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

Semper Vivus said:


> Cool test setup for that controller.
> Does your motor have windings for lower voltage, because for a standard alpha 160 is quite low?


Thanks, yeah I know it's lowish voltage for that motor, but unfortunately it doesn't have windings for lower voltage like standard K11. But it's a temporary setup, I will be raising voltage in the future. Also, rpm should be close to 4000 so it will be manageable at least I hope


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## zeva (Nov 4, 2013)

riba2233 said:


> Ok, can I accept the half price offer for the 1000 A controller? I have 120 Ah 160 V leaf pack, and kostov K11 alpha in toyota celica 1997
> 
> If it's still on, of course


Sure. I'll be away for the next few days (Easter holiday) but can follow up early next week.

Have others used K11 Alphas with 1000A controllers successfully? I ask because I remember seeing K9s with commutator damage from 1000A controllers a few years back.. But hopefully the '11s have beefier construction.


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## riba2233 (Apr 29, 2015)

zeva said:


> Sure. I'll be away for the next few days (Easter holiday) but can follow up early next week.
> 
> Have others used K11 Alphas with 1000A controllers successfully? I ask because I remember seeing K9s with commutator damage from 1000A controllers a few years back.. But hopefully the '11s have beefier construction.



That's great, thank you! I'm also away for few days so that's ok.

Yeah, many others used K11 with 1000 A controller, no problems at all  

http://www.evalbum.com/4765

http://www.evalbum.com/5148

http://www.evalbum.com/1860

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=38171



You can contact me once you are ready, thank you a lot!  
Jakov


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

thanks for the response and information about your controller zeva. I'll be curious to here others experience with the controller. It's great to see some alternatives in the controllers space. 

I also appreciate your breakdown on the difference between the IGBT based controllers and yours.


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## bonewibb (Aug 30, 2009)

Guess I should hang onto my still-in-the-box Evnetics Soliton Jr controller and Rebirth VW adapter for museum pieces.


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## Semper Vivus (Apr 13, 2011)

@zeva:
I'm looking forward to more technical informations regarding the following:
- Is it possibe to adjust current limits via the CAN interface while operation (i.g. in combination with a CAN enabled BMS)?
- Does the controller support a function for limiting rpm of a series DC motor or will it be supported in future?
- Have there been any basic considerations regarding EMC while designing the controller? That question is important for me, because here in Germany the vehicle would have to pass a EMC test with that controller. I.g. I've read of vehicles with Netgain controllers, that passed that tests and vehicles with Zillas, that didn't passed it. Of course the controller may need some additional filtering then (see Evnetics Soliton EMC kit for Europe).

Kind regards,
Tom


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## zeva (Nov 4, 2013)

Semper Vivus said:


> @zeva:
> I'm looking forward to more technical informations regarding the following:
> - Is it possibe to adjust current limits via the CAN interface while operation (i.g. in combination with a CAN enabled BMS)?
> - Does the controller support a function for limiting rpm of a series DC motor or will it be supported in future?
> ...


- The controller's settings can be updated over CAN bus anytime the controller's logic board is powered up, so it would be possible to have a BMS update current limits dynamically, though it's not really the recommended practice! Usually settings would only occasionally be changed. Most people use our EVMS Monitor for configuration, but it will accept settings updates from any device on the CAN bus if all the values are valid.
- No support for RPM limiting at present, and there's no spare input which could be used on the existing logic board or case plugs.. But one option may be an RPM sensor on the CAN bus which the controller could listen to. I could look into it if the demand was there.
- EMC testing must complicate conversions quite a bit! It's not something I've looked into yet (not a requirement for Individually Constructed Vehicles here in Aus, and I don't think there are any ZEVA controllers in EU yet). I'd be interested to learn what companies like Rebbl had to do to get EMC compliance for the Solitons (for example).


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## MPaulHolmes (Feb 23, 2008)

You can also do a sensorless RPM limit. You have to figure out what numbers work for your specific motor, but it really does work. All you need is the PWM duty and the motor amps feedback. luv1 is basically the duty. Fran Sabolich came up with this, by the way.


```
/*
				// original logic in v1.11
				// if current feedback > motor_speed_calc_amps, then rpm = k * V / current_feedback
				// else rpm = 0
				if (current_fb > config.motor_sc_amps) luv1 = luv1 / (unsigned long)current_fb;
				else luv1 = 0;
				*/

				// logic changed slightly in v1.11b
				// if current feedback > motor_speed_calc_amps, then rpm = k * V / current_feedback
				// else rpm = k * V / motor_speed_calc_amps
				if (current_fb > config.motor_sc_amps) luv1 = luv1 / (unsigned long)current_fb;
				else luv1 = luv1 / (unsigned long)(config.motor_sc_amps + 1);

				if (luv1 > motor_overspeed_threshold) {
					if (motor_os_count < (unsigned char)config.motor_os_dt) motor_os_count++;
					else {
						// we have motor overspeed
						fault_bits |= MOTOR_OS_FAULT;
						motor_os_count = 0;
						motor_os_fault_timer = config.motor_os_ft;
					}
				}
				else motor_os_count = 0;
```


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