# MGAlectric



## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

mmm. MGA. My dad has one of those. If only he would fix it up and drive it.

Suggest you read up on the wiki and FAQ to start getting some background on energy, power, volts, amps, watts, and the relationships between them. We talk in those terms all the time here and knowing the basic relationships will help you ask the right questions.

In short, for a 40 mile range in a fairly small, light car like an MGA you should probably have about 10 to 12 KwH (kilowatt-hours) of usable battery capacity. It terms of range, it doesn't really matter whether this capacity is at 72 volts at 160 ah (ampere hours) or 300v at 40ah. If you use lithium batteris, this is only a couple hundred pounds of weight.

Where voltage and AH capacity (and also battery chemistry) come into play is as a factor in the overall performance of the vehicle. a full sized, 72v car probably isn't going to have more than 40-45mph top speed and it will take its time getting there. A 300V battery will allow for much higher top speed. On the other hand, the higher the ah capacity of the batteries, the more torque (basically proportional to amps from the battery pack) you will be able to get out of the motor. Battery chemistry is also a major factor in how many amps you can dump from the battery pack, as some batteries can only put out about 1 "C" rate and others can do 20C, or basically 20 times the power for the same "size" battery. 

Lots of variable here as I have alluded to. Suggest taking your time and reading up on it a bit.

Good luck.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi MGA

Voltage, 
- depends on your controller, 
Your controller will effectively reduce the battery voltage to what is needed by the motor 

I have an OpenRevolt controller so I am limited to 150v
My motor is out of a 48v forklift - I expect to operate at higher voltage and rpm than the forklift so I have advanced the brushes

The forks and column of the old forklift are quite sale-able - farmers here bolt them to the back of their tractors - hey presto a farm forklift!


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi I'm new but have been watching from the dark corners of the internet. I finally jumped in and bought a forklift for $1500.oo bucks. Stripped it out and due to my simplemindness completely disassembled the electrical control board. I now have this great big pile of STUFF? I am rebuilding the frame and body of my 1958 MGA and am currently in the process of putting it back together. I expect this entire process to take m a year (I HOPE). 

I've read where the EV-1 controller will work for up to 144volts. Is that all of them or select ones?

I've sold the battery pack and the scrap metal and have 3/4th of hte money back now only in for $500.oo 

I know there will be more money involved-I'm searching out batteries and wondering if my motor might be a problem.

The largest motor and the one I want to use is 15inches and over 100lbs but it was a hydraulic pump/ It is rated 36/48 volts but there is no shaft on it rather it has a female end--what to do????

HELP please

MGAlectric


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi, I have merged your previous thread with this one so that the advice given is together.

Glad to see you have found your way onto the forum.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Found this thread yet?

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html

If your forklift motor is 15" in DIAMETER it is probably complete overkill. You will have heaps of torque but no top end. Kinda like gas and diesel engines, the bigger an electric motor is the more it favors torque over RPM. 

However if it is 15" in length, and about 8" to 9" in diameter it is probably a good size, presuming everything else about it is OK (see above thread). A Machine shop can probably convert the motor shaft into a male, keyed shaft. Somebody locally who does a lot of conversions has had that done to a lot of motors they get from ebay.

cheers


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

No its 15 inches long but only 7.5 dia--I will have the same problem as Forkenswift. It is a pump motor with only two hook ups and it has a female receptable not a stud. I can't seem to find their email anywhere to ask if what they did worked and what to do ect. have not taken it apart yet--but it is a CLARK motor--
is that a good one?


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Are you able to utilize the male member that fits the female output? (Sounds naughty, doesn't it?)


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

probably but I can't figure how to keep it seated????


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

If the shaft is an internal spline then maybe a motor shop can weld the male shaft into the female shaft. It depends on how good a fit it is.
The armature would need turning on a lathe afterwards to true it.

Alternatively if the shaft isn't too large a diameter then a new shaft can be sleved over the top and wleded on and a bigger bearing used over the top of it.

can you post a photo of the motor, in particular the drive end to show the shaft?


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> If the shaft is an internal spline then maybe a motor shop can weld the male shaft into the female shaft. It depends on how good a fit it is.
> The armature would need turning on a lathe afterwards to true it.
> 
> Alternatively if the shaft isn't too large a diameter then a new shaft can be sleved over the top and wleded on and a bigger bearing used over the top of it.
> ...


 
I'll send a pic can you tell me how to do that? I like the idea of welding the shaft on permanently.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

diver653 said:


> I'll send a pic can you tell me how to do that?


If you have a photobucket or similar photo hosting then you can just cut and past the url for the image straight into your post.

If the image is on your computer you can use the 'manage attachments' button below the reply screen. That will open a small window where you can browse your folders for the image and then upload it to the server. You may need to reduce the image size. I generally go for 800x600 as it is the biggest that fits all the forums I use.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

diver653 said:


> I'll send a pic can you tell me how to do that? I like the idea of welding the shaft on permanently.


this needs to be a precision job, and properly heat-treated for strength rather than brittleness... small misalignment may cause it to crack over time. keeping a clutch covers for a lot of small errors.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

OK here are pictures of the motor


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

diver653 said:


> Hi I'm new but have been watching from the dark corners of the internet. I finally jumped in and bought a forklift for $1500.oo bucks. Stripped it out and due to my simplemindness completely disassembled the electrical control board. I now have this great big pile of STUFF?



patching together a pile of old stuff may cost less, but its gonna cause a lot of headaches.  forklift motors need adjustment to handle higher voltages, and you really need higher voltages for road-worthy EVs to keep the amps down.

For a drivable vehicle I would not recommend less than 96v at the very least, and much prefer 120v as the rated limit matching many motors and the economical lower capacity controllers like the curtis 1221c. Investing just a little more in your motor/controller will yield a much more fun and dependable driver with the same amount of work!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> this needs to be a precision job, and properly heat-treated for strength rather than brittleness... small misalignment may cause it to crack over time. keeping a clutch covers for a lot of small errors.


Hence getting a motor shop to do it. It wouldn't be the DIY element of the build.
I can't quite make out, from the photo, the inside of the shaft. Is it splined or plain? What is transmitting the drive forces to the the pump?

Here's a thought.

While getting all the bits sorted out it is worth keeping a look out for a drive motor that has a male shaft. If one comes along then you can sell on the motor you have. If you have a local motor shop that can fix the shaft for you it may be worth seeing if they have a more suitable motor in stock that they may part ex for you.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

It has a 9 splined receptor for the shaft. Fits well together and it fitted into a shaft that has a gear on it for the pump. there is ample room to cut of the gear and have a slot cut in it.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Check http://forkenswift.com/electric-car-parts.htm.

Perhaps it might help.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks. I found that site earlier this year and it is part of the inspiration for my project. The biggest problem I have is finding a plan that is definitive enough that even a rookie can follow. I don't know which part is what nor do I know in what order that must be wired. I know that I must find a motor contlor and plan on ordering Paul and Sabrina's. I have chosen the amount (96 volts) but don't know again how to wire all this in what order. Thanks for your awesome assistance on this forum-You guys rock!!!


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

A friend introduced me to his friend Carson Steen of www.plumquick.com They are extrememly nice people and have said they will help in any way


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Alright--gonna use the largest of the motors-7.5 inch dia and 15 inches long. It has a female receptcal but the shaft from that was going to the pump can be welded to it and then will have ot be TRUED. I'm going with Paul and Sabrina's kit for the 144 volt controller. 
So now I have to get the body back on the MG and get it prepped body work and paint. I think I am going to mount the tranny and motor then put it back in before I put the body back on.

I am still mulling over batteries-price versus how much I can squeeze out of my budget for them. I KNOW they are the most important for distance and service. Any adivice for long lasting and reasonable price?


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have you checked http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/current-ev-tech-warning-54607p9.html? Post#86

I have no experience with these batteries but the price seems reasonable and dtbaker trustworthy.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

Salty9 said:


> Have you checked http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/current-ev-tech-warning-54607p9.html? Post#86
> 
> I have no experience with these batteries but the price seems reasonable and dtbaker trustworthy.



thanks for the vote of confidence. 

The Thundersky company is not around any more, they changed name to 'Winston' due to some corporate changes in China. In my research they are perhaps second best compared to CALB, but could be bought for a little less... Its what I have in my car. These PARTICULAR batteries have been sitting on a shelf for about 18 months while some ex-clients including myself were suing EVComponents.com for non-delivery under the direction of James Morrison. The case recently 'resolved' in Settlement of some inventory we were able to get from a warehouse of his. Dave Kois at currentEVtech.com has agreed to sell it at discount through his storefront and handle shipping for a small commission. The price is pretty darn good for quality lithium because we would like to liquidate the inventory and get cash settlements to all the Plaintiffs.

Thats the (long) story. The short version is that the Thundersky batteries are very good quality and performance-wise, in the US ready to ship, and at a very good price until they're gone....


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

diver653 said:


> Alright--gonna use the largest of the motors-7.5 inch dia and 15 inches long. It has a female receptcal but the shaft from that was going to the pump can be welded to it and then will have ot be TRUED.



I just noticed this..... welding shafting, particularly those with splines or keyways, will be problematic unless heat-treated afterward be someone who really knows what they are doing.

why are you not going with a nice new ADC 8", or Warp 9" ?


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Cost---I'm doing this for myself but also to demonstrate to my students that it can be done and done fairly inexpensively. I've got a friend who is a great welder. Me no!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

new motors are a bit pricey. but considering they are the heart of the system, and a shaft failure could be catastrophic, I would be very hesitant to weld a motor shaft and have any confidence in the coupler/clutch/transmission.

unless you are getting the welding, heat-treat, and re-machining for free, its gonna cost almost as much as a new motor.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

did you check out www.plumquick.com guys? The said they would assist me with this--they seem to know what they are doing. Check out their site. and Free is for me in this case I am trading some parts to them for their assistance.

I do not mean to imply that you don't know what you are talking about--I know you do and i thank you for the heads up--on this part thanks


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

I've been searching as to how many amps batteries should be. and why amps are important at all. I've seen the various formulas and some discussions but no one has suggested how many amps a battery pac should be rated at for the various uses of EVs. I'm planning a fairly often use near daily driver for a 40 mile round trip. I'm sure I can plug in when I arrive at either destination.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

diver653 said:


> I've been searching as to how many amps batteries should be. and why amps are important at all. I've seen the various formulas and some discussions but no one has suggested how many amps a battery pac should be rated at for the various uses of EVs. I'm planning a fairly often use near daily driver for a 40 mile round trip. I'm sure I can plug in when I arrive at either destination.



I think you are confusing 'amps', with 'amp-hours'. The amp rating is usually a concern with the controller and how many amps you can put to the pavement to get desired performance in acceleration and how many amps you can maintain at a continuous speed without overheating the motor or controller with are thermally limited as you put more amps thru them.

amp-hours are the rating you need to work with to determine range.... the rating you may dig up from manufacturers needs to be modified if you are comparing different chemistry (lead-acid to lithium for instance), and then take into consideration your expected conditions like speed as well as size/weight/aero of the vehicle to get a closer estimate on range.

for example..... with my little Suzuki Swift (Geo Metro), which weighs right around 2000#....

with a 96v lead-acid pack (12 x 8v batteries with a 20-hr rating of 185 amp-hrs) I had a MAXIMUM range of 40 miles for 6 months to a year, which degraded to 20 or 25 after about 18 months/7000 miles. The car was right at its limit for suspension, braking and acceleration were marginal with almost 900# of lead on board. the key for looking at lead-acid ratings is that you have to de-rate a lot to extrapolate the EFFECTIVE 1-hr rating as that is the more 'normal' load you can expect in an EV use. 

same car, controller, and everything except upgrading to 120v LiFePO4 pack of 38 x 100ah thunderskies gives me a maximum of 50-55 miles, and WAY better performance because of no-sag under load, no-sag as discharged, and 500# less weight.

Based on actual comparison in the same car, I would say that good quality 8v system golf-cart battery with a 20-hr rating of 185 amp-hr is pretty close to equiv to a LiFePO4 system rated at 100 amp-hr.

I can also say that a 120v Li system, with 8" motor, despite a wimpy 400amp max Curtis controller (1221), provides a fairly zippy vehicle with very similar acceleration and power to the original ICE. The same car with the initial lead-acid pack was 'barely adequate'.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

I delivered the tranny, and adapter plate, the motor, and a splined shaft for the motor to the machine shop today. Since I am in a semi-rural area our school system has some construction carrer type classes. One of them at another school in the disctrict has agreed to fiqure out what they can do to mate everything together so that it can be easliy taken apart later. Love it. Friends and neighbors-its all about helping eachother out : )


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

ordered the Paul and Sabrina controller today-- used the scrap metal and scrap battery money from the fork lift and still had 20 bucks left. Waiting for the and motor to come back from the shop. Still working on the MGA body its not ready to go back on the frame yet. hopefully when I've gotten all the other items ready all the pieces will be assembled to put into the final project.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

selling parts from the MGA on Ebay and buying shiny parts for trim items--took seats out of the 74 MGBGT and this weekend taking out the motor and giving it to my son for his MGBGT. will use the tranny and another electric motor for another project after I've completed the MGA. The SAGA continues and I'm loving it!!!!


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

So I've pulled several more items off the 74 MGB lights and rims-easier to upgrade than the 58 MGA headlights. Over TURKEY day I plan to cut out new floor boards for the MGA frame. The motor and transmission are almost ready to go back into the frame.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

moving along now--motor is mated to tranny and I'm preparing to cut the floorboards to get them together to put back in. Have ordered many deals from EBAY on the rubber and cork body cushions in order to put the body back onto the frame. I think it best to wait until the motor and tranny are reinstalled before putting the body back on. I'm full of anticpation for the new year. I think I can be fully ready in the spring YEAH!!!


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Now I am considering what to do about the 230 volt charger that came with the fork lift. Can I convert it into a charging station for my car? How do I do that? I'm planning on 120 or 144 volt system yet I know little or nothing about how to complete this. Any assistance on the matter?


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have you read http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210.html?

Should be a lot of useful info there.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

thanks Salty9


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Got the Paul and Sabrina controller kit today--My friend and I will assemble it before the new year.

AND wow also got the motor and tranny back today---I'm grinning : )


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

So the Paul and Sabrina controller goes together nest week-How the heck do I test the thing to see if it works? Although someone gave me a link to another site about chargers-It seemed it was about building a charger. I wondered if I could use the old forklft charger in some wayz? Any help with that?


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

Connect the controller to a computer using serial cable. Use RTD explorer -software for example. If connection attemp is a success and you see some info about parameters and fancy graphs proceed to 12V testing with motor. Connect motor, controller and 12V battery together. Power the controller from separate 12V battery and swing potbox lever. Motor should spin. Adjust controller parameters if necessary. If everything seems to work you can install the controller to your vehicle and apply higher voltage.


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

thanks Mora. is that a download from some where on the internet? Thanks


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

no problem. RTD explorer can be found here: http://www.evvette.com/EVVette.com/RTD_Explorer.html


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

This weekend we finish up the controller and begin work assembling many of the parts back onto the body. The floor pans which are wood will remain wooden. I've increaded the width of the pans to 3/4 inch feel beter about that increase; previousily it was 5/8 inch. the motor and transmission are in and waiting for bracing to be installed. maybe over the weekend. I have treated all of the frame and body witha rust stop and everything is currently dark brown. ready for paint. I'm waiting on weather. -

Ordered a Craftsman powder coating gun for smaller parts--can't wait to see how this works. I'm building a small heat nook/oven to cook the small parts and big enough for rims--should be even more fun

I'm really enjoying putting everything back together with the help I've recuited and all the help from this board on the technical issues.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi div,

You sent me a message via email but denied return email  I prefer public discussion opposed to the private anyway, so hope you don't mind. 



> Is it ok to use 144 volts on a 36/48 volt presolite motor. I thought I understood that it was, then someone emailed me and said it would burn it up if I used 144 volts on this motor. Can you clarify?


Yes and no  144 volts direct to the motor....NO, it won't work out so well for ya  144 volt battery and a controller reducing the voltage to the motor....YES, it can work if you observe limitations  

So I glanced back and saw a 7.2 inch Prestolite pump motor. These came in several design varieties but let's say it is a series wound type and rated on a one hour duty at 48V, 3000 RPM and 200A. At that load (200A) you put 144V to the motor and it spins up to 9000 RPM and explodes with a lot of arcing along the way..........Won't work. Or you put 144V to the motor and load it to keep the RPM down under 5000 and you get several thousand amps and it arcs to death and melts down within seconds.....Won't work.

Put a controller inbetween the battery and motor and keep the motor voltage such that the RPM is reasonable and limit the current to the motor capability and.........It can work. Depending on those set limits and the particular motor design, you may want to advance the motor brushes another 4 or 5 degrees. The 7 inch Prestolite unidirectional motors of that vintage had a 4.5º advance from the factory.

Hope that helps,

major


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## diver653 (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry its been a while, like most everything you expect this to take less time than normal. My body man (volunteer) has been way off his game. he is outside and this summer has been no two days together without rain. I started up another project waiting for him. 

An electric motorcycle--fun as well--that is my project while I am waiting for the MGA to make it from back back to frame.
enough for the update--will post when there is news on the MGA  voulteers are always on their time and when its free--oh well


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