# Working with Elcon on Charger Reprogram



## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

Hey, folks. Has anyone had trouble working with Elcon in CA recently? After exchanging some emails, they said they could reprogram my charger for me, so I shipped it and it was signed for last Tuesday. 2-3 day turn around they said. I'm still waiting, and they told me it's not even programmed yet. Is this typical, or should I be concerned?


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Never tried but I can show you how to program it yourself.


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

That would be incredible. Could you tell me a bit about that before I ask them to just send it back? This is there most recent reply today:

"We programmed and tested your charger but it didn't work because the internal hardware is different than what is stated on the outside.

We will have to figure out what the actual hardware is and then reprogram it. It should take a couple of days."

Sounds like stalling to me, but whatever.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

The voltages and current rating are determined by the hardware so it is possible to put in a program that won’t run. 

As far as doing it yourself you would need some hardware and skills such as soldering and using Arduino software. 

I believe everything you need to know is already on this forum under Elcon firmware facts.


https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134225&highlight=Elcon+firmware


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

pdove said:


> The voltages and current rating are determined by the hardware so it is possible to put in a program that won’t run.
> 
> As far as doing it yourself you would need some hardware and skills such as soldering and using Arduino software.
> 
> ...


I read through some of that thread earlier, and I decided that I didn't have time to dig in to fully understand all of it right now. The car has been down for two months due to a charger issue, and with work and school full time, it will be down for at least another two before I have time to really dig in. In the interest of getting the car back on the road, I purchased a 1 year old Elcon 2500 PFC charger from eBay with the understanding that I could send it to them to be reprogrammed.

This was labelled as the 144v model, and was configured for charging lead acid batteries. I believe the highest algorithm was for 206.6v, and the bottom was 73.8v. All of that was on the label. I asked for 96v, 100v, 144v, 196v, and 200v algorithms, all of which were within the bounds of what was already on the charger. That's why I'm kind of confused about them having trouble with the hardware...

That all being said, I'm going through the thread here and there in case they try to drag it out.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Yes, the voltage range is determined by the parts inside such as the transformer. It’s usually written on the transformers with paint. Someone could have gotten the cover mixed up with another charger if they had more than one. I would ask the person that sold it to you. I have never interfaced with Elcon before but I heard they were kind of short with their communication.

What was wrong with your old charger? We could possible fix it. We have fixed quite a few. The programming seems daunting but it is not that hard. You need to build a little driver board and connect to an arduino and then load the arduino code from a computer. Them plug into the charger and download the code into the charger.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Was my experience that they wanted your nominal voltage, type of battery, how many, and ah of pack. They then took a week or so to reprogram. I got steps starting at nominal and incremental in one volt.

Yup they're cryptic. With so many knock offs and revisions they have their hands full.


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

pdove said:


> Yes, the voltage range is determined by the parts inside such as the transformer. It’s usually written on the transformers with paint. Someone could have gotten the cover mixed up with another charger if they had more than one. I would ask the person that sold it to you. I have never interfaced with Elcon before but I heard they were kind of short with their communication.
> 
> 
> 
> What was wrong with your old charger? We could possible fix it. We have fixed quite a few. The programming seems daunting but it is not that hard. You need to build a little driver board and connect to an arduino and then load the arduino code from a computer. Them plug into the charger and download the code into the charger.




The old charger is a 3.3kw TC charger. It’s set up for CAN, but it doesn’t work properly. Randomly shuts off, loses communication, etc. TC has not been helpful thus far, and I started to dig into the charger but that’s in another thread.

As far as the Elcon charger, they just told me they finished yesterday and that it’s shipping today. Good enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

jbman said:


> The old charger is a 3.3kw TC charger.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the same thing as an Elcon. Both manufactured by the same company. The can be reprogrammed to use enable instead of can or vise-versa


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

pdove said:


> That is the same thing as an Elcon. Both manufactured by the same company. The can be reprogrammed to use enable instead of can or vise-versa


This is the new style of charger, and it has full CAN control. I can set voltage and amperage directly from my BMS. It's not just on/off like the old ones. I have already been down the road of trying to get them to repair/reprogram this charger, and they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole, probably because it's potted imo. The only option they gave me was to buy another one at cost as a replacement. That's their "warranty".


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

jbman said:


> This is the new style of charger, and it has full CAN control. I can set voltage and amperage directly from my BMS. It's not just on/off like the old ones. I have already been down the road of trying to get them to repair/reprogram this charger, and they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole, probably because it's potted imo. The only option they gave me was to buy another one at cost as a replacement. That's their "warranty".


The old ones can be CAN control as well. It's just a software load and they work the same way. You command it voltage and current. The on/off models are like your current one and don't have the CAN interface.

I've not played with a new one but I imagine they aren't too different.


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## jbman (Oct 26, 2017)

pdove said:


> The old ones can be CAN control as well. It's just a software load and they work the same way. You command it voltage and current. The on/off models are like your current one and don't have the CAN interface.
> 
> I've not played with a new one but I imagine they aren't too different.


I wasn't aware that could be done without a module to interface with the charger. That's neat. You can look at the other thread, where I posted a few pictures of the innards so far.


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## Clipper (Jan 30, 2011)

pdove said:


> What was wrong with your old charger? We could possible fix it. We have fixed quite a few.


Hi, pdove,
I just posted a message in batteries and chargers, explaining my symptoms… I’m having trouble getting hold of Elcon to diagnose an issue. Could you help me? Or perhaps fix or reprogram my charger? 
Thanks...

Incidentally, what gave rise to the problem is that I added two cells to a 40 cell pack. Even with 42 cells, the old programming should cover the charging… It’s a 520V algorithm 133-142V in 1V steps. I have drained the battery down below 134V, and I’m trying to charge it to 142, Which is about 3.38V per cell.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

Clipper said:


> Incidentally, what gave rise to the problem is that I added two cells to a 40 cell pack. Even with 42 cells, the old programming should cover the charging… It’s a 520V algorithm 133-142V in 1V steps. I have drained the battery down below 134V, and I’m trying to charge it to 142, Which is about 3.38V per cell.


3.38 VPC is quite low. You'd really want to go to around 3.55 VPC, which was 142 V for your 40-cell configuration.

If you're stuck at setting 7 (139 V), then even a battery drained to 134 V (it might have sprung back a bit in voltage) might look too high to start charging. And 139 V / 42 cells = 3.31 VPC, not even at the resting voltage of a 50% charged cell.

I think you will need reprogramming for about 42 x 3.55 = 149 V. Elcon in California could do it (if they are still interested in these older models), and Paul could probably do it. Though he may have a slightly different lithium algorithm than the "520V" (nothing to do with voltage) "curve" or "algorithm". Or you could do it yourself; the instructions and software are on this forum, but it's a bit daunting for most.

It's also possible that your charger's voltage measurements have drifted over the years, so it could do with a calibration. I believe that Paul can do this too, but it wipes out your existing charge program. No problem if it is going to be overwritten anyway for higher voltage.

I believe that your 120 V hardware can go up to 154 V (at full power; 161 V at half power).


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks Coulomb you are the best!


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## Clipper (Jan 30, 2011)

Coulomb said:


> 3.38 VPC is quite low. You'd really want to go to around 3.55 VPC, which was 142 V for your 40-cell configuration.
> 
> Elcon in California could do it (if they are still interested in these older models).


I would love to get it reprogrammed; but as I said, I’m having trouble getting hold of Elcon. I am charging my other cars to about 3.54 per cell. When charging stops, they immediately sag back to about 3.35. So I figured 3.38 was on the low side, but that should be adequate for testing.

If I’m stuck on algorithm seven, then it should start charging at anything below 139 V, shouldn’t it? Historically, I’ve been able to do that with my other cars… Top it back off after I’ve only burned 10 or 20 amp hours.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Clipper said:


> I would love to get it reprogrammed; but as I said, I’m having trouble getting hold of Elcon. I am charging my other cars to about 3.54 per cell. When charging stops, they immediately sag back to about 3.35. So I figured 3.38 was on the low side, but that should be adequate for testing.
> 
> If I’m stuck on algorithm seven, then it should start charging at anything below 139 V, shouldn’t it? Historically, I’ve been able to do that with my other cars… Top it back off after I’ve only burned 10 or 20 amp hours.


Send my a PM and I will give you my address. You can ship it to me and I will reprogram it.


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Hello Pdove,
Any chance I could get a reprogram on my charger? It is an Elcon pfc 2500(I think from 2002. I could pay you cash money?? Thanks man. No worries if you got no intrest I understand. Just trying to get my electric car on the rode! already got some sweet lg chem batteries from Tom.
Thanks,
Jake


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

I can do it. I would need to know what you have and what you want it to do?


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

I got 8 2015 LG chem packs from a Chrysler Pacifica hybrid. 20.8 kwh. 2.6 kw pack.4.2v cells. 45ah cell.

any chance you could reprogram my Zivan Ng3? No worries if you only like elcons, I get that.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

leman2112 said:


> I got 8 2015 LG chem packs from a Chrysler Pacifica hybrid. 20.8 kwh. 2.6 kw pack.4.2v cells. 45ah cell.
> 
> any chance you could reprogram my Zivan Ng3? No worries if you only like elcons, I get that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I have never used a Zivan NG3 but I found this on the internet! Seems easy enough.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...justment.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2LlXLtPTTIXDGMoE3nfqta

It is hard to tell what you have from your description... maybe 12 or 13 cells in series


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## leman2112 (Dec 2, 2018)

Nice. Thanks man. I got 8 packs. It is 16 cells in a pack. 16x8=128 cells total. So I do not need to reprogram this charger to get a specific charging algorithm. I can just adjust the parameters with the pot adjusters and plug it all together and go shred? Or am I missing something. 

My car is a 144v system. Kinda just want to run 2s4p right now to keep it simple. If I plan on running two lg chem packs in series 57v x 2= 114v then 4 in parallel. (This is based on the voltage they are charged to when bought. These may charge to 67.2v however I am not positive yet still researching them. May have changed the cell chemistry from 2015 to 2017, but so far I have not found any evidence of a change 67.2vx 2 =134.2v. Still planning on reconfiguring my packs with a spot welder someday to get them to 144v in series but would like to drive it a bit on the road this summer. 

If I set it up 2s4p for the meantime, Can I charge my batteries with my zivan ng3 with the maximum voltage pot set at 114v for safety and it will shut off keeping my batteries from over charging? I plan on having a bms hooked up when I try this. Not sure witch one I am going to buy. Probably should just get the spot welder first and get to the 144v nominal setting the motor is looking for.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

leman2112 said:


> Nice. Thanks man. I got 8 packs. It is 16 cells in a pack. 16x8=128 cells total. So I do not need to reprogram this charger to get a specific charging algorithm. I can just adjust the parameters with the pot adjusters and plug it all together and go shred? Or am I missing something.
> 
> My car is a 144v system. Kinda just want to run 2s4p right now to keep it simple. If I plan on running two lg chem packs in series 57v x 2= 114v then 4 in parallel. (This is based on the voltage they are charged to when bought. These may charge to 67.2v however I am not positive yet still researching them. May have changed the cell chemistry from 2015 to 2017, but so far I have not found any evidence of a change 67.2vx 2 =134.2v. Still planning on reconfiguring my packs with a spot welder someday to get them to 144v in series but would like to drive it a bit on the road this summer.
> 
> If I set it up 2s4p for the meantime, Can I charge my batteries with my zivan ng3 with the maximum voltage pot set at 114v for safety and it will shut off keeping my batteries from over charging? I plan on having a bms hooked up when I try this. Not sure witch one I am going to buy. Probably should just get the spot welder first and get to the 144v nominal setting the motor is looking for.


If I were you I would reconfigure the way you want them. trying to go back later to make changes to a working vehicle is a pain and you will probably never get back to it. However it also means that you won't be able to use all the cells so you overall capacity will be lower 2s3p with 21 cells left over. Higher voltage will just give you more power and top end speed but more cells gives you longer range.

As far as the Zivan that was the same impression I got just adjust the pot.


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## Mountain Goat EV (Apr 26, 2021)

@pdove and others,

I have a PFC2500 that was for flooded batteries and I am trying to use it on. 32s li-ion battery made from chevy volt cells. I don't understand the charge curve chart attached. Can I use the charger as is and just rely on the BMS to stop at 134.4 volts or does this charger need reprogrammed?








Any input is helpful.

Edit: I also have a zivan NG3 and will look into what you guys mentioned about adjusting the pot.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Mountain Goat EV said:


> @pdove and others,
> 
> I have a PFC2500 that was for flooded batteries and I am trying to use it on. 32s li-ion battery made from chevy volt cells. I don't understand the charge curve chart attached. Can I use the charger as is and just rely on the BMS to stop at 134.4 volts or does this charger need reprogrammed?
> View attachment 122539
> ...


The software has variables that can be changed with the external push button. Usually they will contain several AH and number of cell combinations. This one looks a little different showing Ah and current endpoint combinations. Looks like they are all 72 cells. Lead acid cells are nominal 2v and max 2.1v. so 72 cells is 151.2 volts. Yes you should be able to control the enable function of the charger to turn it on and off if the voltage is enough for your application. here is a document that explains your algorithm.


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

pdove said:


> The software has variables that can be changed with the external push button. Usually they will contain several AH and number of cell combinations. This one looks a little different showing Ah and current endpoint combinations. Looks like they are all 72 cells. Lead acid cells are nominal 2v and max 2.1v. so 72 cells is 151.2 volts. Yes you should be able to control the enable function of the charger to turn it on and off if the voltage is enough for your application. here is a document that explains your algorithm.


Re-programming is easy so you might want to consider loading a CAN image into the charger then you just feed it voltage and current once a second to turn it one when the message stops it turns off.


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## Mountain Goat EV (Apr 26, 2021)

pdove said:


> The software has variables that can be changed with the external push button. Usually they will contain several AH and number of cell combinations. This one looks a little different showing Ah and current endpoint combinations. Looks like they are all 72 cells. Lead acid cells are nominal 2v and max 2.1v. so 72 cells is 151.2 volts. Yes you should be able to control the enable function of the charger to turn it on and off if the voltage is enough for your application. here is a document that explains your algorithm.


Thanks for the quick response! I am thinking I will use the zivan because of the ease of changing settings but I thought it is worth asking how would I control the enable on the elcon? Has that been discussed somewhere already? And so with my charge curve selection, all I am changing would be current output correct?


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## pdove (Jan 9, 2012)

Mountain Goat EV said:


> Thanks for the quick response! I am thinking I will use the zivan because of the ease of changing settings but I thought it is worth asking how would I control the enable on the elcon? Has that been discussed somewhere already? And so with my charge curve selection, all I am changing would be current output correct?


I am not following. So the elcon TCCH chargers have a complicated charge program as seen in the graph I sent where it charges in stages. In your case it charges at a constant current until V4 (2.44V per cell or 175.68v) then switches to constant voltage untill the current equals I3 (Ah/34.4) curve. So if you are set for 127Ah cells then I3 is 3.74A. This is where it cuts off by itself. The charger is enabled by connecting pin 1 of the round connector on the front to pin 3. So, if your bms can control a swith you can have it monitor the voltage and open the switch to disconnect pin one from pin three thus turning the charger off.


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