# *Building* a 1953 Hudson Hornet EV



## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

*Building, not just planning...I've been planning a classic car/hotrod EV for 20 years. Now is the time to build it.

Hello all! I have a fair bit of personal history with EVs. My path to the altar of the Spinning Magnets began with the OPEC/Arab Oil Embargo in the 70s. I had built up a bunch of VWs and classic hotrods in the 80s & 90s. The early 90s brought us the first Gulf War. 

In '95, I started planning a classic/hotrod/street rod BEV with lead-acid batteries and an on-board generator to charge up in a pinch. After so many years, the plan has been updated to AC motor(s), lithium batteries, and a bunch of other new-ish tech.

Skills-wise, I put myself through college working in a body shop, welding, and writing computer software. I went on to work on movies and build lots of motion control equipment. I bought a car dealership with family in '06, partially to build and sell converted EVs. We did a couple of VW Rabbits, but it didn't pan out. I also did a bunch of bicycles over the last few years.

For this project I have;
'53 Hudson Hornet sedan (3600lbs./1630kg, but 1000lbs of that is ICE+);
$25k budget (but ultimately, whatever it takes, within reason);
15 to 30+ hours/week;
A 2-car garage w/lift (plus bonus room) in my home in Los Angeles.

My rough modern plan included a Curtis AC-35 dual motor with approx. 45kWh of SmartCar Li-Ion batteries, and (at some point) a turbine-powered generator (could be Harley-powered too, running on LPG). I was planning on using the Hudson trans, but now I'm shopping for something stronger (probably a Ford Top-Loader 3-sp.).

In a phone conversation with Michael Bream at EVWest, he suggested two HPEVs AC-50 motors in tandem at 96v instead of the dual AC-35at 144v I had been considering. I was puzzled by 96v versus 144v, but the torque curves seem to bear out the higher, smoother torque of the 96v version of these particular motors/controllers. 

I found a gent who has built a '65 Ford Falcon van EV with the AC-35 dual motor and LiFePo4 batteries. Even with the same weight as the Hudson, he more than doubled the stock performance. Justin did a phenomenal job with it.

My old plan was for a hyper-performance StreetRod-style build. By now, I'm just looking to build cool and fun EV classic car for everyday driving. 2-3x stock acceleration will be necessary for rowdy moods. Looking for 100-130 mile range from the non-rowdy moods. As previously mentioned, I am still looking to build a turbine-powered genset...it's been a long time coming. I really should make it have access to public chargers.

I'm digging this forum, and I'm kinda bummed I didn't find it earlier...y'all are inspirational!

Thanks for any advice and/or encouragement! Brian


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Welcome! It sounds like an amazing project, and you seem to be very well qualified by experience to do it. 

Post lots of pics!

Yes, the 96V AC50/1238 is capable of pulling 650A, hence more torque than the 144V 1239 which is only able to pull 500A. I was surprised when I dug into the curves to help another poster. That's going to mean a lot of cell parallelling and a hefty charge current...but of course fewer cells also means less BMS.

All I can say is I love my AC50 in my Spitfire- it's a perfect match. I love the regen- it's like having power brakes, with the 10-15% range gain and lower brake wear being gravy. It's been a very fun and reliable ride for me. Enjoyed the process immensely- just wish I'd started with a car in better condition now that I know how great the EV conversion worked out!


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

I'd think about trying to get ahold of one of those larger siemens AC motors and a scott drive. Higher voltage systems have various benefits over low voltage systems. 

Shouldn't be any trouble finding space for 40+kwh in a hornet, and yes the massive 6cyl and associated care and feeding in one of those things could easily add up to 1000lbs or so. Aerodynamics could be worse for a 50's car given the "fastback" style these cars have.

I have a family member who is big into vintage hudsons and has a whole fleet thereof (Some of which actually run too  ). It would be fun to see what you can achieve. 

Keep us posted.


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

Update: The last few months have been filled with lessons in patience and tenacity. I gotta give it to you folks who stick with it through all the dramas of life, plus inconsistent, unreliable, and downright dishonest vendors and suppliers. Good people are out there in the majority, but it doesn't take many bozos to screw up a well-laid plan. Enough about that...

It took a while to get shop and tools ready for this project, but progress is slowly but steadily happening. I thought I'd share some progress instead of just lurking here nearly everyday, lol. My first plan for this car was to see how I could make this Hornet an EV and change as little as practical. Hudsons are very light for 50s American cars, but that's still about 3500 pounds (less than 1600kg). I thought I'd take out 1000 pounds of ICE and hopefully replace it less than a 1000 pounds of EV goodness. 

Hudsons dominated lots of racetracks in the early 50s, so I figured the rest of the running gear would be strong. Mostly true, but the only potentially weak link I saw was an expensive one, the T-86\R10 3sp OD transmission. With the benefit of hindsight, it would have been a whole lot easier to have proceeded with the T-86, but it would have been really expensive later to redo all the mounts and motor adapter to change it later, so I chose to go with a T-85/R11 3sp OD now, which is a much beefier version of the T-86. 

I like the idea of a 3sp because of fewer, stronger gears and wider ratios. We pretty much don't use 1st gear, which leaves a nice wide ratio between 2nd and 3rd.. Cooler than that is the electrically-operated planetary overdrive at 0.7:1 Near as I can tell, the T-85C-1A\R11 I have came from a '58 T-Bird with a V8. I found clutch parts at SummitRacing.com, including a 14-pound aluminum flywheel, and a stronger-than-stock clutch disk and pressure plate. I've got an aluminum bellhousing from a Hi-Po V8 Galaxie on its way from Motown. It's a rare piece, but it saves quite a few pounds. I'll pop the ring gear off of the flywheel too, because...who needs to carry a few extra pounds for nothing? Clearly not me, or this Hornet, hehe...

My buddy helped with the ICE removal and I have a nice, heavy pile of obsolete parts that can go back into the Hudson ecosystem. I have the transmission nearly set up, then it's down to EV West to digitize the tranny for an adapter. Michael Bream is such a great guy, and I'm getting pretty much all of my EV components from him, but the adapter seems like a real bottleneck with them...I can't wait a few months for one.

Does anyone have another vendor who can make an adapter pretty quickly? I think I could do it myself, and I might just try, but if someone can make a good one in reasonable amount of time, that would be best. I've looked for someone who has done a 58-65 Ford, but no luck.

I dig reading about everybody else's cars here. Take care, ladies and gents!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Kennedy engineering in Palmdale/lancaster for adapters


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

BuildMore said:


> ....
> Does anyone have another vendor who can make an adapter pretty quickly?
> ...


During my build I purchased quite a few parts from Electric Car Parts Company and was very happy with their service. I didn't buy my transmission adapter from them, but the do make custom adapters....

http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/Custom-Built-br-EV-Transmission-br-Adapter-Plates-br-and-Spacer-Rings-br-Industrial-Strength-Aluminum_p_34.html


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

Thanks, y'all...Kennedy is buried in some production run, and I'm talking with ECP... Thanks for recommendations, we'll see how this shakes out.


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

An update... After wasting 4 months waiting to hear back from EV West to take my money *for a whole system*, and for an appointment to bring my trans in for digitizing, I called a bunch of other folks to try to get my adapter made. No joy with that, so screw it, I'm gonna do what I shoulda done from the beginning...make it myself.

I've now got a Siemens motor, Azure DMOC, and EVTV GEVCU coming in hot from the nice folks at EVTV. The money I woulda spent on a store-bought adapter will go toward a mill, lathe, and tooling. 

Obviously, the new gear will be more than the cost of an adapter, but the experience and satisfaction will even it out...and I'll have the gear for the next one!


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

Update: After a year, an adapter plate is *finally done. I sure many of us have stories of challenges with vendors who don't deliver, so I'll save the drama, lol! 

Once I get the adapter sorted and start working on the motor mounts, I'll start sourcing the batteries. I had decided to wait until the adapter was done before I started on the battery pack because the choices seem to change daily, haha. 

I was initially going to use Tesla/SMART modules, but now they seem a bit old. I'm attracted to Volt modules, but they seem a bit heavy to get to 50-60kWh. I'm not afraid to build up a custom pack with individual cells. I've worked on small packs for bicycles.My Siemens motor and Azure DMOC seem to like high voltage 300-360VDC. 

I'm researching the possibilities, but if anyone has a fresh hot idea for a 40-60kWh pack and BMS, I'd love to hear about it. Take care, y'all!


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

Update: I've got batteries now! Inspired by Mr. Jaimeson (aka vhclbldr), I've purchased 24 of these 60v LG Chem modules. Next step is to plan the mounting, but I'm not very clear about the wiring scheme, or the BMS. I've searched and searched, but can't find any detailed info that relates to this situation. vhclbldr doesn't get into detail in his build thread here on the forum, or his more robust blog - http://electriccamino.blogspot.com/ (or I can't find it). I've been trying to reach him, but he seems very busy. I'm going to bring up those questions and ideas in another thread in an appropriate category. 

I notice that the bottom of the modules are metal. I can't find much info about these particular modules but those plates remind me of a Bolt battery I watched being disassembled. I'm sure that they are for cooling. I want to figure out some way to run chill plates underneath them. 

I've got components, materials, tools, and the operating room (garage shop) ready. I'm going to finally get bashing on old Teddy here! My motor/trans assembly is so compact that I may be able to push it down the trans tunnel a bit. My original ICE was so big and so heavy that I'll be left with a lot of free space, and we shouldn't gain much weight overall. I might even be able to have a trunk on both ends, like an old 914.


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## itchyback (May 28, 2014)

Love it. 
I'm converting an old jag so glad to see others doing old cars. I'm bogged down in programming at the moment so not much to show  Keep going!


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## mons2b (Nov 17, 2015)

That car is so beautiful. I love the lines. My personal opinion dont take away too much from the external classic non hotted up look. Ie ride height etc. But thats just me. 



BuildMore said:


> Update: The last few months have been filled with lessons in patience and tenacity. I gotta give it to you folks who stick with it through all the dramas of life, plus inconsistent, unreliable, and downright dishonest vendors and suppliers. Good people are out there in the majority, but it doesn't take many bozos to screw up a well-laid plan. Enough about that...
> 
> It took a while to get shop and tools ready for this project, but progress is slowly but steadily happening. I thought I'd share some progress instead of just lurking here nearly everyday, lol. My first plan for this car was to see how I could make this Hornet an EV and change as little as practical. Hudsons are very light for 50s American cars, but that's still about 3500 pounds (less than 1600kg). I thought I'd take out 1000 pounds of ICE and hopefully replace it less than a 1000 pounds of EV goodness.
> 
> ...


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

My plan was to stick with everything that's terrific with the design, which is pretty much everything on the exterior. I might do an adjustable ride height because it may be useful to be able to level out the new balance and loadout. I'm not looking for lowrider stance, or hotrod, etc. I love the stock wheels, trim, and chrome. 

I am gonna do up the interior like an old school rich guy's library/study with oxblood leather and custom everything. Steampunk-style (maybe brass) fittings, fixtures, and switchgear. I've got some battery modules running down the center of the car. Instead of bench seats, I'm gonna do four "easy chairs", with the modules in a console. Probably diamond-tuck, like an old wing chair, haha.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

BuildMore said:


> I am gonna do up the interior like an old school rich guy's library/study with oxblood leather and custom everything. Steampunk-style (maybe brass) fittings, fixtures, and switchgear. I've got some battery modules running down the center of the car.


Full-on steampunk could include making some of the electrical gear visible... while keeping it safe, of course. Possible? Too far from the theme?


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

Jah, man! My design philosophy/theme comes from this crazy idea... what if gasoline/petrol lost its bid for world domination of the transportation industry?... What if we went from steam to electric? 

I plan to celebrate and highlight the electric drivetrain as much as possible. I'll try to keep the look on point for the period, but I think I may have to make some concessions in the interest of safety, as you appropriately point out. I'll also follow conventions to keep first responders safe as well.

I should still have many opportunities to use Steam-punky materials wherever appropriate. Unfortunately, the motor will be buried beneath a mountain of lithium, wrapped like giant black plastic bricks haha. 

The cardboard boxes represent the LG Chem modules. The boxes are only slightly larger than the real modules, so, if the boxes fit, the modules should, too. 24 modules... 4p6s - 366VDC nom. 180Ah for nearly 66kWh. Each module is 16s itself, so the BMS could get hairy! If anyone has any advice for a setup like this, I'm open like a book, haha...


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

It is tough to meet enclosure requirements while showing off electrical hardware (makes showing cells with cables attached problematic) but it would be nice to see at least the cables attached to the controller.


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## BuildMore (Oct 28, 2016)

Copy that... I'll find some way to make it look as cool as it will run. Form before function, but form is still a factor, jah?


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## PacEmaker (Nov 22, 2018)

New member here, I have contemplated for years doing something like this with my '51 Hudson Pacemaker laying around in my shed. I probably won't start on it for a couple of years so your Hornet project is something I'm really keen to see as you go along!

Thanks for posting progress so far!

Geoff


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## PacEmaker (Nov 22, 2018)

Buildmore - since the private message system is a bit awkward on this forum, I'm hoping you could email me at [email protected] for a bit more correspondence whilst I'm planning my Hudson Pacemaker conversion? Cheers, Geoff.


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