# Electric Cars Not Entirely 'Zero Emission', Researcher Contends



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Does that include the emissions from the transportation, refinement and infrastructure of the standard automobile too? Just another apples to oranges comparison I am afraid.


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Not to mention that this is highly dependent on where you get your power from.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

rochesterricer said:


> Not to mention that this is highly dependent on where you get your power from.


We could really make things look dirty if we charged it from the failed reactors ( with power from before the trouble ) divided by the cleanup . LOL , I'm going to charge from solar cells .


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

aeroscott said:


> ...I'm going to charge from solar cells .


Me too. But now we have to figure how much pollution is produced making the cells...


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

rfhendrix said:


> Me too. But now we have to figure how much pollution is produced making the cells...


and no playing fast and loose with your figures , like not accounting for the charge in the screw gun . LOL


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The thing is that nothing is really zero emission unless it is 100% efficient from 'cradle to grave' including all processes involved.

Even just being alive causes the emission of methane and CO2. How far back down the chain would one count in terms of trying to show one thing is 'cleaner' then another?


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> The thing is that nothing is really zero emission unless it is 100% efficient from 'cradle to grave' including all processes involved.
> 
> Even just being alive causes the emission of methane and CO2. How far back down the chain would one count in terms of trying to show one thing is 'cleaner' then another?


I confess, I have probably contributed more than my share of pollution then. Just ask my wife!


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

If this study is true then it really only applies to the UK and their particular mix of power generation. I suspect that they have only considered purely tail pipe emissions of petroleum powered cars. They mention Prius emissions in those terms. As others have pointed out this is not the entire story for petrol car emissions. The origins of the petrol also has a big effect on its overall carbon burden. Tar sands and coal to liquids are even more carbon intensive. Even conventional oil will become more carbon intensive as it becomes more difficult to access. As the world relies more and more on alternative sources of petrol the dirtier it will become. Electric cars will relieve the world of some of its requirement to exploit these dirtier sources of energy so the energy requirement displaced is much dirtier than the average rate would suggest.


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

Woodsmith said:


> The thing is that nothing is really zero emission unless it is 100% efficient from 'cradle to grave' including all processes involved.


A car any car really is a total loss system it is 100% inefficient. All the energy you put in the vehicles tank or batteries is ultimately dissipated and lost to us. That is why when we talk about vehicle efficiency we are usually talking about a rate of consumption and not strictly speaking an efficiency.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

John said:


> A car any car really is a total loss system it is 100% inefficient. All the energy you put in the vehicles tank or batteries is ultimately dissipated and lost to us. That is why when we talk about vehicle efficiency we are usually talking about a rate of consumption and not strictly speaking an efficiency.


That's the point.

If a report is going to compare then it should, if it wants to be legitimate, compare like with like.

For emissions at the point of use an electric is going to be cleaner then fossil fuel. If it compares the source of the energy then compare electricity generation and transmission with oil refining and tanker delivery to the pump.
If it compares the source of the feedstock then it should look at the mining of coal, oil and gas as well as the renewables for electricity compared to the mining of crude oils and tars in its various forms and states.

And so on.

However, does one then compare the energy embodied in the construction of oil wells and tankers to the construction of power stations and wind turbines? And the energy of the factories used to construct all the component parts....ad infinitum?


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

Basically an EV is a zero emissions vehicle -- period.


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