# Woody's Tractor Project



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Very nice work on the shaft! I'd be looking at some sort of a 3 wheel setup. On the subject of insane ev projects i've been eyeing up a mini digger and a forklift pump motor combo


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've also been eyeing up minidiggers but can't find one cheap enough. It should be a fairly straight forward conversion.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Great minds eh? One good thing is that the building game in Ireland is dead so stuff like minis can be had for pennies on the dollar! No need for a controller just a good contactor like a kilovac. So all thats needed would be an ev van with a trailer for the ev mini digger. Low carbon garden services ltd!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm sure the only thing coming down in cost here is the labour cost. machinery and hire charges don't seem much cheaper yet.

My neighbour needs a minidigger at some point soon so I reckon the prices are stying up until after he has hired one.


I've got to find time to collect the Land Rover axle when the snow clears a bit. I don't even know what the dif ratio is yet. It might be better to just sell it on and get a series rear axle and have a known 4.7:1 diff.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Great minds eh? One good thing is that the building game in Ireland is dead so stuff like minis can be had for pennies on the dollar! No need for a controller just a good contactor like a kilovac. So all thats needed would be an ev van with a trailer for the ev mini digger. Low carbon garden services ltd!


Got a great new job idea there Jack! 
The building game was great up here in the Lake country
of the Northwoods of Wisconsin - then the bottom dropped out!

But the wealthy cabin owners from the big cities still use garden services BUT
this time of year - Plowing driveways of the white stuff . EV plowing in -20 degree (err Fahrenheit) ... 

Nice job on the spline Woody - I will be lurking!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was back and forth in the snow to a neighbours house today as I am cat sitting for ten days. I was thinking that if I had a little tractor running I could be playing with a snow plough!

In the end the cold got the better of me and I brought the cat over to holiday at mine with my cats. Saves me the back and forth nonsense trying to get the cat to toilet outside.


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Nice job indeed on the shaft Woody, I like your style

Steve


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jozzer said:


> Nice job indeed on the shaft Woody, I like your style
> 
> Steve


Cheers Steve, Don't tell me, you have a shaft for the motor that you forgot to tell me about.


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## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Hehe, yeah, I left it on the seat of the electric minidigger/tractor that the motor used to be in


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've just scored 5 Land Rover Defender wheels and tyres for free for this project.

Only down side is that they are down in Bordon Hampshire!

I still need to find another front axle though, preferably with brakes, and a means of getting a 7:1 reduction gearing between the motor and transfer box.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I've just scored 5 Land Rover Defender wheels and tyres for free for this project.
> 
> Only down side is that they are down in Bordon Hampshire!
> 
> I still need to find another front axle though, preferably with brakes, and a means of getting a 7:1 reduction gearing between the motor and transfer box.


Woody,

Tractor Thing Indeed

Good greif how much metal are you planing to move with that little golf cart motor. 

Two truck axles
Necessary spindles and hubs and steering
Truck wheels
Transfer case

Anyway, joking aside, looking at the picture of the transfer case It looks like a jack shaft is going to be the only cheap answer for your 7:1 reduction if you go with chain drive. 

You mentioned eariler that you don't have room for much gearing on the input side of the transfer case. In the picture it looks like you might be able to reroute the shifter stuff to allow more clearance. 

If you keep adding weight and shafts and stuff you're going to need a lot more then 7:1 though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hiya Jim,

I'm using Land Rover parts as I know them and have converted them before. They will be shortened and stripped down to very little so weight won't be that bad, besides, motors can be replaced with bigger items!
I will play it by ear and see how 'big' it gets.

I will start with one narrowed Land Rover axle at the back with a big wheel on each end and small wheels for the front on go kart type steering.
If weight is a problem then I will cut out the centre of the axle and replace it with the transfer box and put the reduction gearing as chains between the transfer box outputs and the drive shafts. Or drop the transfer box and just have a chain drive to the axle flange.

The problem with the transfer box is that the selector shafts poke out right next to the input flange. I would need to extend the drive out beyond the selector shafts.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

I know you have already invested a lot of effort in your tractor thingy and will most likely continue with what you already have in mind. But I thought I would throw these ideas out just fort he heck of it.

Here is a link to a axle that would be perfect (If you could find a like item over there) these were made for the popular (over here) Ranch and Farm utility vehuicle.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2156122420373739&item=13-1430&catname=

Another path you could take, I think you should look to see what there is in England that compares to an International Cub Cadet, Bolans or Wheel Horse garden tractor or just the cast iron type transaxle, they are all are darn near indestructible when properly modified. Even stock they will handle a lot. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cub-Cadet-1200-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5638330bc3

My own electric conversion of a Cub Cadet was cheap and easy. With 48 volts it will reach 14 to 15 MPH. The nice thing is if you find an engineless model, you end up with everything else you need except the electric drive. I spent a probably less then 200.00 USD on the chassis (excepting the specific bits for tractor pulling) including paint. 

Sorry, just ramblin on and on. Stuck in the house for a while will do that to you.

Have a great holiday season


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Jim, I will look into your suggestions further and take the advice of someone wiser then myself.

I do like the look of the cub axle, I will need to see if there is something similar over here. If not I will be making my own. So far the items I have my eye on are free, if a little distant. I accept that free doesn't necessarily mean good.

I found another lawn tractor for £125 but the axle looks very weak so I passed it by.
I'll keep looking.

Have a great Christmas, Jim.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Come on, cut out this "wiser than" crap. More opinionated might cover i,. different experiences might also.

I wish I had done half of the nice stuff you've done in metal, never mind what you have done in wood.

Everything that follows is based on my perception that what you want is a back yard (garden?) putt putt, something that can pull a little wagon or you can mount an implement on to do a bit of work. But still use it to run down the sidewalk to the corner. 

Back to the tractor. The Cub transaxle is handy because of the included axles and wheel flanges (a common 5 bolt on 4.5 inch Ford and Chrysler pattern), internal brake, all reductions being internal and the single longitudinal 5/8th input shaft makes it easier to hook up an electric motor. But man, since it is built like a miniature farming tractor, it is heavy.

A couple of other Ideas, Have you thought about just getting a golf cart or industrial truck rear axle, then mounting the motor as it was intended? From there it would be easy to build something to fit your needs. The side winder type input shaft garden tractor and lawn tractor (there really IS a difference between them) transaxles would also work if you redid your motors front cover to allow it to take more side loading.

Going back to that transfer case (box) you have. Are you sure that rerouting/relocating the shifter stuff isn't possible. That would make adding a large sprocket easier. Of course that would give you a very heavy version of a side winder garden tractor axle without axles, flanges and brakes.

I would think that some where in England, there should be a wrecking yard for garden tractors. That would be a great place to find "stuff" like steering and linkage. Hope there is one close.

Nice thing about doing a small vehicle like this is it can be assembled in the cellar during the nasty months and then partially disassembled and reassembled outside in the spring. I found also, these little things can require everything electrical (with the exception of a heater) that a full sized EV will need. Great practice.

Good Holiday Wishes Back At You,


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hah! Wisdom comes in many guises as does experience and crap.
The cellar assembly also features in my plans given there is 4" of snow and a peasoup fog outside.

I have been extensively searching Ebay for lack of any other easy options today adn have found an engineless Husqvarna LR110. However, anything with the Cub type axle was intact and costly.

There is always one of these.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Bear with me on this, just ocupying a slow day with nothing to do.

The Husky you linked to is a good example of a LAWN (YUK) tractor, everything is tin can. The motor would have to be mounted vertically. For this kind of setup you would expect a lot of side load on the front bearing and cover you made for the motor.

That Ferguson you refer to would have been a nice fixer upper for me 10 years ago. The price is very nice for what is there. Since the engine is also the frame it would take some doing to convert to BEV.

Now here is something that would be fun. 
Again 10 years ago I would have probably went for it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Farm-Ga...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55ffe890


This is a nice sidewinder type GARDEN tractor. These Wheel Horse and the Sears sidewinders are probably some of the toughest little tractors out there. 
When you build something out of one of these you are building a family heirloom. A lot of these are 40 - 50 years old and really don't show that much wear. Again sidewinders are going to put a side load on the wooden end cap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wheel-Horse-Gar...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f0060934

Here is another Diamond in the rough. Inline drive train, very similar to a Cub. In line would work well for the end cap you made.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Allis-Chalmers-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0eeae81b

Another fun project. I've seen these redone as a ICE setup but would work well as a electric. Convert one of the two wheel walk behind garden tractors into a articulated unit with the addition of a perminantly mounted wagon. You stand/sit in the wagon and "Plow Handle" steer. The wagon would be a great way to show off some wood work. The one shown below is just an example seems like everyone built one of these things. In fact I beleive you can still buy them new.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Planet-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item25555375ff

All in all, a nice way to while away an afternoon.

Be well


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You notice, Jim, that it is Christmas day and we are online talking little old tractors. If we were local we'd probably be in the shed working on one together.
I have an excuse though that I celebrated on the winter solstice and this week is just time off.

That is a nice selection of machinery you've found there, we just don't have the same sort of thing on Ebay UK. There are a few in Tractor and Machinery and, maybe I'm sad, I bought a copy to read over Christmas!
Most are still either full size tractors or small but fully working and that is reflected in the price.

I must admit that I would like a miniature of one of these:









I don't think a sidewinder set up will be an issue as I can fit bearings on both sides of the drive member on the splined shaft before fitting the motor. Also if something works I can remachine the endcap in aluminium.

I should be careful of not spending too much time and effort making a big fun machine and not enough on learning about the electric motor drive system.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

I guess everybody has their own way to do Holidays.

Last thought for the day, I know that there are garden tractor pulling groups in England. I've seen You Tube stuff. They might be a good resource for locating what you want at a reasonable price.

Those big 4WD tractors are neat, I know what you mean about wanting one. 

As far as building a tractor today, we probably would be. As it was today in between posts, I spent a bit of time today down in the cellar pulling down the blown Cub axle. Blew the diff when the tractor went up on the wheelie bars and the rear wheels spun up, right at the end of the pull, so when the wheels hit the ground. . . .boom. Got a new heavier diff carier, but I need to switch the riveted on ring gear. Started grinding rivet heads but had to give up after a while.

When you're old and sick you need to do what you can, when you can, if you are going to get anything done.

We started our newest puller last week. I'll get back to it tomorrow. 7 1/2 feet long 1350 lbs. with driver. 

I have a small Ford pick up truck axle that is narrowed.
We have a 13 inch GE that will be mounted above the pumpkin of the axle We will chain drive from motor to the axle. 

The Ford 7.5 inch axle has a 5.14:1 ratio and a positraction (may get rid of that). 
With 12 inch rim x 12 inch wide x 26 inch diameter pulling tires we should see wheel speeds in the area 50 - 60 MPH depending on how fast we can spin the motor.
Our starting out battery will be around 160 volts and 5-600 amps. This tractor will be driven by my electric tractor partner. He is an old electric drag bike builder/driver.

I layed out and started cutting metal for a new additional battery box for the Cub Cadet to go over the motor in the front. I want to be able to go to 60 volts so that when I run into these guys with their "STOCK" tractors that the governor seems to have fallen off of (they turn 6000 rpm). The new battery will be a plug in deal, 48 volts when I pull wirth legal 13 horse people and 60 volts for the rest. The new battery will replace some preexisting weight.

I'm probably going to try to get at least one of the ICE tractors running again (they both have carburation problems). The single engine will be easier the double engine is more fun. We will see which one gets done.

I figure with the way my lungs are falling apart this will be my last year at this, I want to get as much done as possible.

I'll be watching to see what happens. I hope you find something "interesting" for your tractor thingy.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm sorry, Jim, to hear your illness is preventing you from doing as much as you would like. It will be a shame for you to stop pulling. Your advice will always be valuable even if you no longer compete.
Take care of yourself.

As a sideline (one can't have too many project ideas on the go), I have been doing some calcs and if I used the transfer box as a transaxle for a front drive trike and fitted the chain drive I have of 3.5:1 then I could get a nice 30mph from it with 23" tyres.
If I kept the weight down to 350kg with smooth bodywork plus 48v LiFePO4 pack it will do 30mph at 2.6kW at about 90W/mile.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

You guys are making me think of possible applications for my warp 13


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> You guys are making me think of possible applications for my warp 13


If you want to run with this, Jack, I'm happy to help.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

So, having stripped the Land Rover axle and got the innards out to play with I happened across a really cheap 2CV gearbox with inboard disc brakes.

To make things simpler and to save weight I will use the gearbox as it is with the motor on the front and have it bolted to a chassis. I will use the Land Rover stub axles and hubs but nothing else. The diff, axle case, shafts and swivel housings, discs and calipers can all be sold on. The 2CV gear ratios are fairly low too so the motor will easily drive it around slowly.

This makes the fun mechanical bit quicker and easier but will get me to the electrical learning curve more effectively.

The 2CV gearbox could also be recycled into a trike later on though my jury is still out considering the pros and cons for front or rear wheel drive.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Woodsmith,

Unless your plywood end cap is only temporary, you might consider coating it with an epoxy paint for oil resistance and putting a stainless band clamp around the circumference to maintain the integrity at the bolt hole locations. It looks good.

Chuck


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> So, having stripped the Land Rover axle and got the innards out to play with I happened across a really cheap 2CV gearbox with inboard disc brakes.


If you feel "the urge" to take a picture - that would be nice  .. I am still lurking on this...


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

I know Jim is lurking here also so here is my two "Commie" (Belarus) tractors... Errr they pull - but just around the farm ... Reworked them both - 

The snow was in early fall - it would now be up to the first step - lol....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Salty9 said:


> Woodsmith,
> 
> Unless your plywood end cap is only temporary, you might consider coating it with an epoxy paint for oil resistance and putting a stainless band clamp around the circumference to maintain the integrity at the bolt hole locations. It looks good.
> 
> Chuck


The end cap is only temporary, I wanted to test run the motor to find out what it would do before committing myself to further work. I will remake it in aluminium when I know what sort of ounting I will need to make with it.
Same with the splined shaft, I may make another or a different shape one yet.



Dave Koller said:


> If you feel "the urge" to take a picture - that would be nice  .. I am still lurking on this...


Very lax of me.

I hadn't photographed the axle as it was oily and muddy and out doors in the cold.
Then it was in the work shop in bits being washed.
At neither time did I want to get my phone greasy or take my gloves off until the job was done. I will try and post a workshop view this week end.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> I know Jim is lurking here also so here is my two "Commie" (Belarus) tractors... Errr they pull - but just around the farm ... Reworked them both -
> 
> The snow was in early fall - it would now be up to the first step - lol....


Dave,

Nice looking tractors. Wish I could afford stuff like that. My last tractor was a worn out 1938 Mini Mo. I couldn't afford to fix it when the welsh plugs between the cylinders blocks rusted away so I gave it to a collector for restoration.

Stuff built over here has gotten so expensive I don't blame you for going eslewhere. 

Between satisfying the Fat Cat businessmen who need their trophy bonuses, the unions, the vocal minority, and the Governments, there isn't much money left to build anything if you want to stay competitive with companies that don't have to put up with that crap.

Have a great one,


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> The end cap is only temporary, I wanted to test run the motor to find out what it would do before committing myself to further work. I will remake it in aluminium when I know what sort of ounting I will need to make with it.
> Same with the splined shaft, I may make another or a different shape one yet.
> 
> 
> ...


Woody,

What the heck are you trying to build. First off it was a conversion of a lawn/garden tractor. Just a quicky job to learn the electrics so you didn't mess up the real EV.

Now you are out there with THIS axle and THAT transmission. God only knows what kind of steering, brakes, orther axle and chassis you plan to use . That's just a little motor. It sound like you want to haul a City Bus sized vehicle around with it. You can get so lost in a project like that you will never finish your MR2. 

This is going to be fun to watch.

Be Well,


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jim, I'm just playing, I miss playing with automotive bits but I am more used to playing with huge automotive bits. I have culture shock!

A basic compact tractor, even non running, would cost quite a bit more then I have spent so far.

Anyway, photos.
















Just a quick shot from each end of the bench.
Stripped down axle, transfer box, 2CV box, buckets of bits.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Looks like you might have fun with all of that Wood 

I'll stick to my circuit boards for now lol...

You think those disk brakes come off easy?

Nice and compact - wheelies in the yard ..


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

WOW how to you keep your bench so clean

Mine hasen't been that organised in years.

I have lots of started project stuff like this too. I woulkd take pictures but I'm too ashamed.

One of ny pullers uses a VW rabbit transaxle with a D&D ES 15A motor with the motor geared down 2 to 1 using a jackshaft.

I grafted a front end, steering, seat and hood from an old Sears tractor to the frame. I used the Hubs, Brakes and Spindles from a VW Dasher welded into the frame along with stock Rabbit alxes.

I'll attach a picture (ist Picture) of it taken at one of the Clubs shows. I let a few people try it out. Makes for big EV grins, this guy couldn't get enough of it, I had to pry him off. I'll attach another picture of when I was installing the motor. You'll notice how everything is twice as heavy as it needs to be. Got to break myself from overbuilding everything. (2nd picture)

The tractor is a work in progress so it hasent't been repainted yet. It sat out back for a few years once the ICE went bad.

I spent too much time on the Cub (3rd picture) so I didn't get the Different finished. The cub is something like I thought you wanted.

Since you are goung to build something around the size of a compact tractor I would recommend that you find a small 3 speed trans to put in between the 2CV and your motor. That will give you the gear reduction you need.

Then find the biggest rims you can at least 16 inches. Look around for garden tractor breakers and see if you cant find a set of wheels and tires. 

By the way the tractor pictured in my signature is the different when it still had the ICE in it.

Sounds like you are just having more fun then is decent.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

This is what I would have prefered to be working on, the AEC Matador timber tractor I used to have (note the big red estate car parked behind it for scale):









Another previous project I may have posted pics of before:









And the three speed transfer box I built for it:








The transfer box, when complete, probably weighed as much as one of your tractors, Jim!

The bench is only clean and clear because it has only been there for a few weeks.

All this playing is also procrastinating as I am supposed to be writing lesson plans for a history class and waiting for a few more pay cheques before I can get a motor for the MR2.
I am even tempted to use the golf buggy motor and 48v controller on the MR2 just to get it road legal if I haven't got a proper motor for it in the meantime.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've started to clean the 2CV box and have removed the brake calipers, discs and driveshafts.









The calipers are an odd design. The fixing bolts also hold the two sides of the caliper together. So once it is removed it falls apart pushed open by the handbrake/parking brake caliper spring.









Interesting that the drive flange has a locating ring on it but it only locates and centralises the disc. The drive shaft CV joint is only located and centralised by the bolts alone. I guess they had better be a snug fit.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I seem to be collecting a lot of cheap mechanical bits.

The latest find is this:
















It is the back end of a Ransomes vergecutter and it gives me a two speed transaxle with wheels and hubs and a mount for the motor. The front end has four bolts that will allow a simple front end to be bolted on to take steering and batteries. The ratios are approximately 8.5:1 and 16:1 plus around 3:1 to 4:1 on the pulley.

Now I stop looking and start building, all the other bits will be back on Ebay so I can get some batteries.

The motor will be interchangable from this project to the MR2 to get the MR2 road legal.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I seem to be collecting a lot of cheap mechanical bits.
> 
> The latest find is this:
> 
> ...


 
Woody,

I see you are now on the right track to build a proper tractor thingy.

I can't wait to see what you come up with. Are you going to build your own front end or will you get a generic lawn tractor from the scrap yard? If you go the scrap yard route watch out for some of the really crappy steering systems. All plastic bushings and stamped gears they are usually worn out about a week before you buy it new. Try to find a tractor with a cast Iron front axle, most likely the rest of the steering will be of better quality.

If you build your own give me a shout. I know the angles necessary to get a proper steering for a narrow front end.

If you can find a Ross steering box that would be great. They were used over here on a lot of the high end garden tractors. Do a search on US eBay you will see a lot of them from used to rebuilt $20.00 to $120.00. Once you know what you are looking for maybe you can find one or something similar. You can bring back a total trash Ross gearbox to better then 80% with about 20.00 in bearings, a litle grease And some effort. access to a lathe makes it better. 

That rear end looks STRONG and those equipment mounting points look like they would suppoet a lot more the those tires would.

Are we goin to see a piece of art wooden body once you get it moving?

Now I have two things I can't wait for, your tractor thingy and now the 13 inch motor for the new pulling tractor is getting closer to complete. A buddy with a nice shop is letting my partner in this project and me use equipment when it's free. I have the movable brush rigging almost done, we will have the keyway in place by Thursday (man that shaft is hard) The end bells have been machined down and cleaned up for Powder Kote. We will clean up the barrel through the week. The end bells will be chrome silver and the barrel will be electric blue metal flake with yellow lightning bolts.

I hope you plan on replacing that wood motor end plate since this will be a side winder. Though it might be OK with a properly supported shaft.

Sorry to run on so but I am just happy to see the tractor thingy going forward.

I'll be watching
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Jim.
It only cost me £10 at the scrap metal yard!

I'll look forward to the 13" photos on your thread and some more pulling video.

I have ordered a 22mm thick aluminium plate from Ebay to make a new end cap for the motor.
I figured that if I kept the outside of the plate square then it would give me 4 lugs for bolting down to the adaptor plate on the MR2. It would be bigger then my lathe would chuck but I realised that if I removed the chuck and bolted the plate to the chuck drive plate then I could use the gap in the bed to get 10" diameter swing.

I will be using the short splined shaft I made earlier to take a pulley and I think that if I mounded it between two bearings then there will be no radial load on the motor. It would also allow the motor to be slipped off the shaft to use on the MR2 until it gets its own motor.

I was going to make the front end as, having found a lawn tractor grave yard, the ones available were costly and looked more suited to a child's pedal cart. Any advice would be great as I was going to just make an 'agricutural' center pivot beam axle with simple (and approximate) akerman steering. It will only have a speed of 0.7 and 1.3 mph per 1000rpm in each gear if I use a 4:1 pulley drive.

This week I will be busy as I have to prepare a couple of pieces of my furniture work to be used for a HRH visit to work. I will have a Royal bottom on my chair, signing papers on my table. If it works out it will be a great publicity photo for my website.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers Jim.
> It only cost me £10 at the scrap metal yard!
> 
> I'll look forward to the 13" photos on your thread and some more pulling video.
> ...


Woody,

Great news about HRH. Post a picture on this site if you can.

Sound like you have the motor set up well in hand. what you describe for drive shafting should do the job. Think about an overdrive jackshaft set up to maybe try to get the top speed up around 5mph. Over all it would be more usable. Belt drive should be fine. 

Couple of questions about the Tractor Thingy (called TT in the future). 
General questions:



Does the TT 

Have a real differential?
Have any kind of brakes?
Have a reverse?
Questions related to the potential front end:

What size will the OD of the final rear wheels and tires be?
What will the center to center width of the final rear tires be?
What diameter front wheels?
What is the planned width (center to center of the tires)?
Suggestions:
See if the lawn tractor yard might not have a couple of usable spindles or even a completefront axle with wheel and tires. The spindles alone will save you half of the figuring and work because the ackerman steering offset and KPI is already built into the units.

If you are going totally from scratch a good general spec. for the ackerman steering offset is 15 degrees per side and a good general KPI is also 15 degreese. For the standard garden tractor front wheel that will put the SAI contact close to the center of the tire with a 2 degree +- camber.

From there, once you know front and rear tire diameters it is easy to set up caster, trail, camber and SAI.

I know you might be saying, is this needed on something only going am couple of miles an hour? But I bet that in the end it will go faster, plus it will be heavy with the batteries so you might as well make steering as acurate and easy as possible.

A thought:
Check on what if any costs iof any are involved import wise if I were to send you a pair of spindles as a gift. They would probably be classed as used auto parts or some such. I have three or four pair sitting around that I will never use. I don't think the shipping would be too bad. I'll weigh them and see.

As far as the Big 13, I guess I better start a build thread. I'll take my camera over with me next week and snap a few of the motor worl we are doing at the shop.

TT forever,
Jim

EDIT.

Sorry; Didn't read/understand that you have the MPH in hand with a 4 to 1 drive. Ignore the jack shaft suggestion.

End EDIT


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Great news about HRH. Post a picture on this site if you can.


It's a senior HRH too so I am quite nervous in case my stuff isn't up to scratch on the day or security have an issue somewhere.



Jimdear2 said:


> Sound like you have the motor set up well in hand. what you describe for drive shafting should do the job. Think about an overdrive jackshaft set up to maybe try to get the top speed up around 5mph. Over all it would be more usable. Belt drive should be fine.


I can use a bigger drive pulley to get almost any speed but I was working on 4:1 or 3:1 reduction as a starting point. Also I am not sure what rpm the motor will pull yet.



Jimdear2 said:


> Couple of questions about the Tractor Thingy (called TT in the future).
> General questions:
> 
> Does the TT



Have a real differential? *Yes.*
Have any kind of brakes? * No, But I was thinking of a transmission brake on the drive pulley or use the plug braking of the controller.*
Have a reverse? *No, but I can reverse the motor as the brushes are neutral set for its design voltage.*
Questions related to the potential front end:

What size will the OD of the final rear wheels and tires be? *I am thinking of starting off with a set of old 205 55 16" tyres off my car on steel rims giving a 23" diameter but it will depend on getting suitable rims cheap, otherwise whatever else I find.*
What will the center to center width of the final rear tires be? *Not sure yet, will see what the wheels are like and then I will make spacers, figuring on about 24" centres to a maximum width of, say, 30".*
What diameter front wheels? *I have a pair of 8" diameter trolley wheels or I can use the 15" diameter wheels that came with this axle.*
What is the planned width (center to center of the tires)? *As above.*



Jimdear2 said:


> Suggestions:
> See if the lawn tractor yard might not have a couple of usable spindles or even a completefront axle with wheel and tires. The spindles alone will save you half of the figuring and work because the ackerman steering offset and KPI is already built into the units.


They are just the budget ride on mower type where an 'L' shaped rod doubles as king pin and axle threaded through folded tin work. The steering is another 'L' shaped rod that gives 2/3 turns lock to lock.



Jimdear2 said:


> If you are going totally from scratch a good general spec. for the ackerman steering offset is 15 degrees per side and a good general KPI is also 15 degreese. For the standard garden tractor front wheel that will put the SAI contact close to the center of the tire with a 2 degree +- camber.
> 
> From there, once you know front and rear tire diameters it is easy to set up caster, trail, camber and SAI.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that would be wonderful. I am sure we can blag customs into letting though a late Christmas present.
I can appreciate the preference for good steering due to the weight and future fun factor  so good spindles would be a great starting point.



Jimdear2 said:


> As far as the Big 13, I guess I better start a build thread. I'll take my camera over with me next week and snap a few of the motor worl we are doing at the shop.
> 
> TT forever,
> Jim


I will look forward to it.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Have any kind of brakes? *No, But I was thinking of a transmission brake on the drive pulley or use the plug braking of the controller*.


The pully in the picture looks like it has a couple of surfaces the you could make a nice disc type brake work on.



Woodsmith said:


> What size will the OD of the final rear wheels and tires be? *I am thinking of starting off with a set of old 205 55 16" tyres off my car on steel rims giving a 23" diameter but it will depend on getting suitable rims cheap, otherwise whatever else I find*.


Twenty three inch overall is a good starting point. Most of the garden tractors over here use a 23 or 26 inch diameter agracultral or grass tire so there are many wheel and tire combos around that would give you a wide low, pressure flotation tire later on if you want it. Using 23 inches would allow you to go to ag tires and wheels without affecting the front end. Lets lock it in at 23 inches rear tire diameter. Those usally mount to a 10 inch diameter wheel. Make sure the hubs on the axle will clear. I don't have a set of 10 inch wheels handy but I think the smallest ID is around 7.5 inches.



Woodsmith said:


> What will the center to center width of the final rear tires be? *Not sure yet, will see what the wheels are like and then I will make spacers, figuring on about 24" centres to a maximum width of, say, 30".*
> 
> What diameter front wheels? *I have a pair of 8" diameter trolley wheels or I can use the 15" diameter wheels that came with this axle.*
> 
> What is the planned width (center to center of the tires)? *As above*.


Lets lock it in at 30 inches center to center for now. I think that the 15 inch diameter wheels would better serve because larger diameter handles soft stuff better. Give me a proposed final length and we can both start sketching in a final product.





Woodsmith said:


> They are just the budget ride on mower type where an 'L' shaped rod doubles as king pin and axle threaded through folded tin work. The steering is another 'L' shaped rod that gives 2/3 turns lock to lock.


I think you are going to want at least 2 to 2.5 turns lock to lock. If you can't find anything premade, I have sucssfully built steering systems using chain and sptockets. We can look into that later. 




Woodsmith said:


> Thank you, that would be wonderful. I am sure we can blag customs into letting though a late Christmas present.
> I can appreciate the preference for good steering due to the weight and future fun factor  so good spindles would be a great starting point.


PM me and we can see whats up, I'll weigh the spindles and see what postage will be.

I'll do a first sketch and trade you for your ideas. I'll send it along in a day or so. Picked up a chest cold and with my lungs I have to stay in bed. Doing E-Mail on my netbook and wireless is about my limit for the next little bit.

Later,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

All sounds good so far.
In between waxing my table I have been in the workshop stripping and cleaning the axle.









The hubs have one set of four clearance holes that will take M6 bolts and three threaded holes that take some UNC bolts. They are very hefty.









The motor is a little wide to line up easily.
I will have to move the big driven pulley outwards somehow so that the motor is more central.









I have put the axle on stands to get an idea of layout and proportions.

















As it stands the wheel base is around 44" and flexible. The axle stands are a little high giving a 25" effective wheel diameter off the bench but it is close enough to do for now.
I was thinking of using these batteries and the layout would allow four of them to sit in a 2x2 long thin layout from the axle case to the front end. Each battery is 510mm long x 240mm high x 110mm wide so I would have a pack size of 1020mm x 240mm x 220mm weighing in at 148kg.
I will need to establish the batteries are suitable before I can build the front end to accommodate them.

I would use smaller batteries but they cost a bit more and I was thinking that these would also give the MR2 enough 'get up and go' to get it legal, I hope.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

I like it. Rear motor makes sense.

Suggestions;

Best put all your battery weight up front. You will be shocked at how easy that front end is going to come up. As far as power, those Gel cells should work OK, but I heard the gells dont take high draw, deep cycleing well. Probably not a problem with the tractor (I get a half hour running at almost full throttle out of 4 very used 45 ah AGM batteries) but might be with the car if you need to go any distance. Another thing with gells, don't forget that the can be mounted at any angle.

A thought on motor alignment. Maybe a jackshaft or a 1 to 1 right angle drive? 

The front spindles I'll be sending you are 3/4 inch. They are made from bent 3/4 inch round stock, machined and then the steering arms are positioned and welded. I would love to send you what is in the eBay pictures except that axles of eithe one are cast iron and weigh about 20 plus pounds.

Cub Cadet axle
http://cgi.ebay.com/1967-Cub-Cadet-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5885cc97ab

John Deer Garden tractor axle
http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-John-Deere...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5885ad1a9c

The drag link arm are what the bottom bushing of the axle rests on. Very simple stuff. 

The wheels will be retained by either a snap ring or a flat washer and bolt or cotter pin. I don't remember what type I have here. I'll send you a picture as soon as I can get out to the shed. We are goin through some global warming here . 20 degrees F (-17 C). The warmest its been all week.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's great, I can make an axle from some 70mm x 50mm x 3mm box section.

I will have a look for other battery options but I am doubling or trippling the cost with conventional deep cycle ones that are also big enough for the car. I am only expecting the car to move enough to be tested and made legal.

I was thinking of a right angle drive for the motor while I was working on it. I will need to see what I can find. There was a pile of worm and wheel gearboxes at the scrap yard but I ignored them last week as there was too much mangled machinery around them. Probably too much reduction anyway.

I started on the frame for the TT.

I had some 40mm x 5mm angle from the scrap metal yard so I used that to for the bottom part of the frame. It is a bit small but it will do as a start and I will make a top frame over the batteries and then brace the whole thing into a girder bridge. If I can find some 50 or 60mm angle that would be better.
I need the TT to be CKD so that I can get it back off the bench and out of the basement so the four bolt attachment to the axle is really good.
I also need to get some extraction fitted as welding indoors isn't nice.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> That's great, I can make an axle from some 70mm x 50mm x 3mm box section.
> 
> I will have a look for other battery options but I am doubling or trippling the cost with conventional deep cycle ones that are also big enough for the car. I am only expecting the car to move enough to be tested and made legal.
> 
> ...


 
Woody,

WOW, you don't fool around once you start something.

A thought on the pully. It looks like it is keyed and pinned to the shaft. could you drive out the pin and turn the pully around so the snout is towards the gearbox then redrill and repin it. That looks like it would give you another inch.

Looking at the rear hubs with the three bolts. I remember seeing some French vehicles that used a three bolt pattern. Any chance they are the same?

On the front wheels make some spoked hubs and bolt them into the 4 bolt holes. Get some tubing that will comtain 3/4 inch ID bearings or bushings and make spokes from flat stock, Weld them to the hub on an angle then bolt or weld them to the wheel. Made a rear wheel for a Motorcycle Ice Racer with side car like that once. Used an old steel hub from a something motorcycle (can't remember) and a 15 inch car rim we had cut the center out of. We had the widest tire out there. This was back in the days when a 4 inch Harley rim and tire was the widest thing out there.

Don't say welding indoors around me. Just saying the words make my lungs clench up.

You keep going like this and you will finish in time to plow the last snow this year.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes the pulley is keyed and I am soaking it in WD40 to get the set screw out. Reversed it will give about an inch but I would like 3". I may make up a shaft extension for it and just move it out where it fits best.

I need to get to a scrap yard and measure some wheels to see if there is anything that will fit. I would like to be able to find some 16" wheels off a Ford Transit twin wheel. The off set would save making up spacers to increase the track width and I would be able to use the tyres I have or use dumper tyres later though that would increase diameter. 
At the moment it is whatever comes first.

The front wheels will probably just be a steel tube welded through a steel disc and bored to take bearings and then turned true to fit the wheels.
Again, the scrap yard had some 8" and 10" discs cuts from 10mm plate, dozens of them, and I didn't get any. I will see if there are any left tomorrow.

There was some snow this morning but only a dusting. I am hoping that there won't be any more. The cold makes my hands hurt too much to work metal.


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## Dalardan (Jul 4, 2008)

About adding a shaft to move your pulley 3" further than your differential, I'll bring my 2 cents here.

I've recently made a Formula SAE car with a snowmobile engine developping around 55hp. Using the stock CVT, it have been quite interesting in means of power, slipping 22" OD slicks of 7" wide. The problem is that on the secondary pulley of the CVT, there was 3" of room between the pulley and the first bearing. This brought flex in the secondary shaft as a bending moment was applied to it (lever effect). This brought the pulleys nearer and made then unaligned. In the end, it even torn our frame! Why I'm telling you here is that you'll what to add a support bearing the nearest possible to your pulleys to cancel this moment and keep the center-to-center of the pulleys exact. 

By the way, moment here is used a "flexion torque" of the pulley shaft. Not really sure how to say it.

Keep up the news, it's going really fast and is evenly interesting!

Dalardan


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Dalarden,
Yes I will be adding an extra bearing if I extend the pulley shaft. Where I can I would prefer to have shafts in shear between two bearings instead of in bending, especially if the shaft is long. I will need to see what the scrapyard angel has to offer in alternatives first.

So today I popped into a car breakers to find a couple of steel rims to use for the back of the TT. The intention was to get 16"x6" ish as I have a couple of old tyres from my car that would do as good slicks to start with. Also using 16" rims would allow me to use Land Rover off road tyres or dumper truck tyres. The chap pointed me to a skip full of old rims and told me to find what I wanted from the scrap. I found a couple of 16" x 6.5" steel wheel rims that felt a bit light but had a lot of offset to widen the track a bit. £5 the pair so I had them and left. They were aluminium with electronic pressure sensors on the valves. Not sure what car they were from but they will do.

So this is where we are at now with the tyres on the rims:

















I will make some spacers to make them fit and then use then inside out.

I also went to my friendly scrap metal yard and came out with something that I don't know if it will be a bargain or a waste of money. However, more on that in my MR2 thread as it is more relevent there.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Hi Dalarden,
> So today I popped into a car breakers to find a couple of steel rims to use for the back of the TT. The intention was to get 16"x6" ish as I have a couple of old tyres from my car that would do as good slicks to start with. Also using 16" rims would allow me to use Land Rover off road tyres or dumper truck tyres. The chap pointed me to a skip full of old rims and told me to find what I wanted from the scrap. I found a couple of 16" x 6.5" steel wheel rims that felt a bit light but had a lot of offset to widen the track a bit. £5 the pair so I had them and left. They were aluminium with electronic pressure sensors on the valves. Not sure what car they were from but they will do.
> 
> I will make some spacers to make them fit and then use then inside out.
> ...


Woody,

Nice find on the wheels. The wire looks promising as well. 

I beleive I'll have those spindles on their way to you maybe this Wednesday. You will have to handle anything at your end to get them out of hock. Their value will be about $20.00 USD.

They are made from 3/4 inch bar stock that has been bent, machined and had the steering arms positioned and welded to so you can look for wheel bearings and tubing that will work with that for your hubs. Most tractors using the cast iron axles just bored the axle and ran the spindles in the cast iron with grease (should be obvious in the eBay pages I sent).

If you make an axle up out of box section tube and round tube you can run them in the tube OK as long as you grease the heck out of them (that's how I did my double engine tractor). I also ground grease reliefs into the spindle to make sure the grease got distributed


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thank you Jim, I will let you know when they arrive.

I am up late trying to work out a spacer/adapter design to fit the wheels.
The wheels have 5 studs at 108mm pcd and a 60mm bore. I have found out that they are Renault: Espace, 21 turbo, Val Satis wheels, interesting but not helpful.
The transaxle hubs have 3 studs at 118mm, or more likely 4 5/8" pcd.

I'd like to get about 2 1/2" to 3" spacer, probably a disc on each end of some 3" pipe, turned and drilled to fit the studs. I will need to have a 60mm spigot for the wheels though and a flange to locate to the axle hub.
It is made awkward for fitting the wheels back to front as the outside doesn't have an easy flat face for mounting.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Thank you Jim, I will let you know when they arrive.
> 
> I am up late trying to work out a spacer/adapter design to fit the wheels.
> The wheels have 5 studs at 108mm pcd and a 60mm bore. I have found out that they are Renault: Espace, 21 turbo, Val Satis wheels, interesting but not helpful.
> ...


Woody,

Yep "sure" it's a pain to figure out stuff like that . . . NOT. Those kinds of things are what we do this for. Thats braging rights. 

Here is a possible way to mount the wheels. 

Bring the 5 bolts through the adapter plate. Then install 5 lug nuts backwards (taper out) install the wheel using standard nuts and washers properly tightened against the backiside of the wheel. This will center the wheel on the cones of the reversed lug nuts. You wont need the centering spigot although mounting would be easir=er if it were there. Since I'm not there looking at it, I'm sure there are refinements.

Looking good.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Here is a possible way to mount the wheels.
> 
> Bring the 5 bolts through the adapter plate. Then install 5 lug nuts backwards (taper out) install the wheel using standard nuts and washers properly tightened against the backiside of the wheel. This will center the wheel on the cones of the reversed lug nuts. You wont need the centering spigot although mounting would be easier if it were there. Since I'm not there looking at it, I'm sure there are refinements.
> 
> ...


Good idea, and there in lies the first small hurdle, finding lug nuts. Everything here uses bolts rather then nuts.

I have 4 lug nuts left from my first ever car, a 1972 Ford Escort mk1.

I shall make some, I think, if I can't find any. Back to ebay.




I am still pleasently surprised at how helpful and generous people are, you sending the spindles, jackbauer's vacuum switch, Jozzer's buggy motor, The chap at the tyre shop fitting the tyres for free and just now, I was outside chatting to some tree surgeons feeling a tree and they sharpened my chainsaw properly for me and showed me what I was doing wrong.
And my mum wonders why I help dig out driveways in the snow, send free firewood off to friends and do free jobs for some people.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I am still pleasently surprised at how helpful and generous people are, you sending the spindles, jackbauer's vacuum switch, Jozzer's buggy motor, The chap at the tyre shop fitting the tyres for free and just now, I was outside chatting to some tree surgeons feeling a tree and they sharpened my chainsaw properly for me and showed me what I was doing wrong.
> And my mum wonders why I help dig out driveways in the snow, send free firewood off to friends and do free jobs for some people.


A very smart person I know of once wrote (I don't know if he originated it) I paraphrase;

"When you've recieved help, don't pay back PAY FORWARD"

Robert Heinline . . . Smart Man !


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Pay it forwards is good and healthy, I like that. There was a film about that wasn't there?

Here it is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0223897/



I got the big pulley off this afternoon and had a play with bits I had that might fit the shaft. I came up with this for race gearing! Funny how the little sprocket was a perfect fit including keyway!









I also found a triple pulley block that fitted the shaft so I just need to open the keyway a bit to use it. I figured that I could machine it and use it to mount the bigger chain sprocket and then fit the small one on the motor shaft and then house the whole thing in a chain case that allows for bearings both sides of the sprockets and for tensioning and safety.
The input drive shaft can then stay in place while the motor is pulled for the car.
The tooth count is 12 and 42 so there will be a good reduction to allow for higher motor speeds.








Image seems to be upside down, not sure what Photobucket is playing at.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Pay it forwards is good and healthy, I like that. There was a film about that wasn't there?
> 
> Here it is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0223897/


I'll have to see if I can find it and watch it. Amazon for $2.00 used I'll order it.

I believe I first heard this back in the late 60s early 70s. Robert A Heinlein (Sorry about misspelling the first time around) was a Science Fiction writer of some note. He used the quote in one of his stories. It appears he did not originate it though. I checked the quotes directly attributed to him

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/robert_a_heinlein.html

If you've got some time read through them. I think you'll find the interesting.

I try to base a lot of my actions around these ideas and those of Ayn Rand.



Woodsmith said:


> I got the big pulley off this afternoon and had a play with bits I had that might fit the shaft. I came up with this for race gearing! Funny how the little sprocket was a perfect fit including keyway!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like you have things in hand. A idea if you use the triple pully and if your trans has a neutral you might consider a power take off i.e. another pully and shaft with a slip belt clutch.

Jim


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

A quote from Heinlein I remember after too many decades is:

"An artist sees no greater diversity in nature than a lawyer sees in the truth"


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Looks like you have things in hand. A idea if you use the triple pully and if your trans has a neutral you might consider a power take off i.e. another pully and shaft with a slip belt clutch.
> 
> Jim


Now there's an idea!
Transaxle is two speed with a neutral. I guess orinially intended so that the mower could be pushed about without it turning over the petrol engine.
I could have a small winch and a crane over the front like the old steam traction engines, or I could run a small hydraulic pump as I have a little 500kg truck loading crane.

I could get carried away.

I'll have a read about Heinlein, thanks.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I could get carried away.
> 
> I'll have a read about Heinlein, thanks.


Woody,

Come on . . . getting carried away is what it's all about, thats where the fun is. First you dream about what you want, then you build what you can afford.


Just got back from my partner's place. We finally managed to get the fields out of the barrel. I didn't beleive it, but the fields are heavier then the barrel.

Picked up a set of spindles, but need to find the steering link arm and couple of other pieces tomorrow morning out in the shed. Should have them boxed up and on their way tomorrow. I might have some 1/2 x 20 lug nuts I could throw in, I have to look. Probably not a good idea the SAE pitch thread bolts might cost you a fortune. Let me know if you think you can use them.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Jim.

I think I am going to get a box of M12x45 cap screws and then eiher turn a cone onto some nuts or get some Ford wheel nuts on Ebay. They seem to be selling in packs of 4 and I need 10! 

While I am getting the bolts I will probably sort out an order for other misc high tensile nuts and bolts. Buying them in small quantities from the local DIY shed is pointless as they are made of cheese there.

I am going to have to try and make the hub adaptors into some kind of simple disc brake with a parking brake lock if I am to use the driven pulley as a PTO.

I decided to take a load of scrap to the scrap metal yard today, I was cleaning my car out to take my furniture to college tomorrow and 'got carried away' in the tidy up. Came back with £76. Not bad for the bits of dead engine and some old push bikes and some of the lead from my roof repairs. That's half the cost of the cable covered.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Thanks Jim.
> 
> I think I am going to get a box of M12x45 cap screws and then eiher turn a cone onto some nuts or get some Ford wheel nuts on Ebay. They seem to be selling in packs of 4 and I need 10!
> 
> ...


Woody,

Just about to walk out of the house to go to the post office. I got the spindles but I can't find the arm that links the spindles to the steering link rod. Well its a simple piece and you should have no difficulty fabricatinng it. I'll make a drawing and sens it to you.I've also included an old pair of the wheel bearing that are used in the front wheels. They are a bkit ratty but maybe you can use therm as examples. They are standard hardware store wheel barrow wheel bearings over here. Maybe you can find equivalents. 

Got to go for now, sounds like you have the front wheels and rear wheels figutred out. Thats great! ! ! If your interested I have made steering gear up with a 3 to 1 ratio using chain, sprockets, self aligning ag. bearings and a bit of flat stock. If you can't find any thing at the scrap yard (you seem to have a good local yard) let me know and I'll forward a description.

By the way you can come and clean up my scrap pile any time your over here i'ts got to be going over two ton now.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's great Jim, Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to another package to play with.
I got the aluminum plate to make a new end cap for the motor today, the postman was very curious as to what it was as it was the size of an A4 pad of paper but way too heavy!

I think I may have the steering in progress. I won, on Ebay, an old series Land Rover steering box and a Mini steering column and wheel, £10 and 99p respectively so a good price.
I think I can cut the steering box to make it fit and then UJ the steering column to it.

I've got to work out a lesson plan for a drawing office practice class tomorrow now, and it is already 'tomorrow' so another late night!


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## Dalardan (Jul 4, 2008)

Usually, this is normal. When you go to sleep the same day as the day you woke up, you don't work enough...  Just kidding. Well... Not that much...

Have fun with your lesson plan!

Dalardan


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dalardan said:


> Usually, this is normal. When you go to sleep the same day as the day you woke up, you don't work enough...  Just kidding. Well... Not that much...
> 
> Have fun with your lesson plan!
> 
> Dalardan


Sleep? Who said anything about sleep?

I suffer from severe insomnia and have had as little as 4 hours sleep in a week. I still get to go to bed though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Great news about HRH. Post a picture on this site if you can.


The HRH visit went very well today.

I didn't get to meet him myself as I had to cover my manager's class while he was doing the meet and greet routine. 

However, I have video and a photo slide show.

Burnley Express short video of visit
Burnley Express photo slide show.
In the slideshow at 1.37 HRH Prince Charles is looking at my chair and then the following images are of him seated and signing a photograph on my table.

He did seem impressed and there must have been hundreds of press photos of him sitting there.

Just imagine, the heir to the thrown has sat on, and used, the same table and chair I use when I am posting on here.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Awesome wood :d:d:d


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Awesome wood :d:d:d


Thanks Dave. Rightly or wrongly, I felt very proud that my work was chosen for the Prince to use.


Today I decided to work on the transmission.

I looked at the small triple pulley to mount the big sprocket to and with a lot of measuring I decided I wanted the sprocket a littler further out still to make the motor shaft easier to line up. It would also save cutting the keyway in the pulley.

I machined one end of the pulley to locate on the boss on the original big pulley, gambling that the boss was true though cast. The dial gauge said it was only about 0.04" out in a slight bulge on one side so I filed a little off. I would have turned it true but it was too big for the lathe.
I then drilled and bolted the pulleys together lined up on a turned shaft to keep it true. Once I was sure it was ok I then turned the other end of the small pulley to create a flat face and a small spigot to locate the sprocket before that was also bolted on.

The bolts through the big pulley were going to be trapped between the pulley and the gearbox casing and the set screw was going to be hidden by the small pulley. I had to fit the big pulley to the shaft and then slowly bolt on the small pulley a few turns at a time on each bolt until it was tight. A qhick check showed that it was within 0.01" true. Would have like it to be better so I may find a better way if it is a problem.
The sprocket was then bolted on.

















The bore of the small pulley will locate a second shaft which will have a bearing on it to support some of the radial loads.

I also began to make a new motor shaft sized to take the small sprocket. and that is on the lathe now.
I will get some sealed bearings for both the shafts before I finish machining them.

I then decided to have a look at the Land Rover steering box.
It felt rough and empty of oil. I slowly opened it up and found that it was full but of water not oil! No wonder it was cheap!

Well, on the basis that it didn't need to be perfect I set about overhauling it. Having dryed it out and given it all a good inspection it was missing one ball from the top bearing and the bottom bearing inner race had a few pits. Nothing to loose so I stripped it, cleaned it and packed it all with grease before reassembling. Not too bad, just a little grumble in a couple of spots in the four turns lock to lock but no perceptable play after adjustment and re-shimming.
I didn't take any photos as my phone was playing the sound track to Calamity Jane (I've got to learn it for the show in May) and my hands were covered in grease.

So given a reasonable steering box I decided to have a look at the Mini steering column to see if there was any useful parts. I took a chance and removed the steering wheel and tried it on the Land Rover column. And it fitted!
Perfect, a little Mini steering wheel for the little tractor.

So that all for now. I am going to shop for some bearings and do some college homework.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I use these guys for bearings , pulleys etc:
http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PT-AND-BEARINGS__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Good service and good prices. I got two ntn bearings for my motor from them worked out about 30 euros. The muppets over here wanted over a hundred!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Jack, I have them saved now and will see what else they may have for me.

I was looking at these bearings:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160399797763&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I made the motor drive shaft today.

It was turned to size to allow for a 6204 2RS bearing on each side of the sprocket. I cut the splines in the same way I cut the previous shaft splines, with an angle grinder, though by this stage the grinding disc was hardly bigger then the locking nut!

I needed to cut a keyway into the shaft and lacking a mill or any other keyway cutting equipment or machinery I decided to cut it by hand, the old fashioned way.

I drilled a hole at the blind end of the keyway by the shaft shoulder and then scribed two parallel lines to the width of the key. I then ground a small cold chisel to a narrow edge and began chiselling.









Having got a shallow sloping start I figured that I needed to drill the other end too. I chain drilled to depth and then chiseled out the waste forming square sides with radiused ends to the keyway.

I then made the key by cutting a piece of steel from a bit of 10mm thick plate and filing it down to width to fit. The excess was then cut off and the ends radiused.
I then filed the hight of the key to obtain a tight fit.
The small sprocket was then carefully drifted on.

















I then fitted it to the motor and tried a length of old 08B-1 chain to fit. There is no coupler link on it.

















I have now ordered a set of bearings from the seller jackbauer recommended and also, from the same seller, a new chain and coupling link.
I could have used the old chain but didn't fancy suffering the same fate that was thought to have happened to Parry Thomas and Babs, not that I'll be setting any speed records.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Nice work. I made the jig in this video for keyway cutting. Saved me hours of torture!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgZol6Mfvo


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm going to have to make one of those jigs, and then buy some end mills. I can see this being something I will end up doing more of.

But for now, being a tractor, agricultural will suffice.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jim's spindles were delivered an hour ago.








No import tax to pay either so that was good.
Many thanks Jim.

The delivery woke me. All this lack of sleep and I finally slept so soundly that I wasn't all that happy being woken but it was worth it. Unfortunately all that sleep came after my alarm clock went off and only got me through to lunch time. I should have been working hanging a door for a neighbour so I have sent my appologies and I will do it later rather then work on the tractor.

I also got my delivery of drive chain, chain couplers and bearings. The bearing were one short as the package split open in the post but I have emailed the seller about it so hopefully I will get a replacement.

I also had a 'Doh!' moment. Jim's spindles, and he did tell me, are 3/4". I machined my drive components to take 20mm bearings and ordered a bag of 10 as they were cheap at £7.36 for 10. Doh!
I should have machined to 3/4" and just got one set of bearings to fit everything. I have asked the bearing seller to price me a set of 3/4" bearings along with the missing 20mm.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Jim's spindles were delivered an hour ago.
> No import tax to pay either so that was good.
> Many thanks Jim.


Glad you got them and that their was no duty.



Woodsmith said:


> The delivery woke me. All this lack of sleep and I finally slept so soundly that I wasn't all that happy being woken but it was worth it. Unfortunately all that sleep came after my alarm clock went off and only got me through to lunch time. I should have been working hanging a door for a neighbour so I have sent my appologies and I will do it later rather then work on the tractor.


With all of the hoopala around a visit of royality, along with what appeares to be a very busy schedule. (you hide it well but it peeks through). I can guess you could be a bit on the frazzled side and need a bit of extra sleep.



Woodsmith said:


> I also got my delivery of drive chain, chain couplers and bearings. The bearing were one short as the package split open in the post but I have emailed the seller about it so hopefully I will get a replacement.
> 
> I also had a 'Doh!' moment. Jim's spindles, and he did tell me, are 3/4". I machined my drive components to take 20mm bearings and ordered a bag of 10 as they were cheap at £7.36 for 10. Doh!
> I should have machined to 3/4" and just got one set of bearings to fit everything. I have asked the bearing seller to price me a set of 3/4" bearings along with the missing 20mm.


A couple of points on the spindles. Do you understand the terms TOOT, KPI, SAI, Camber, Caster, Toe, Trail, Wheel offset and Contact patch. All the correct angles are built into that set of spindles I sent. That is, WHEN you use the right angle and sizes on the the pieces you construct. Since you will be using the TT as a general yard and neigherbourhood vehicle we want to get it right so you arn't fighting the steering all of the time.

First thing, since you are ordering bearings, the King pin posts need to run in bushings not ball bearings. You could use taper bearings but that will just overcomplicate things. 

For the King pin tubes you need to figure how to fit your components into the overall length allowed. This is the dimension from the support flange to the retaining washer and bolt. both tubes need to be the same length.

I use a piece of 1.5 inch OD X 1 inch ID steel tube. I get two 1 inch OD x 3/4 inch ID with a 1.5 inch flange hardware store bushings per side. You cut the tube to the proper length, then press the bushings into the tube, ream and polish the inside of the bushings until a proper fit is made.

A hint, the weight of the front end is going to rest on that little flange where the steering arms attach. It works but there is a lot of friction there. I always put a radial bearing with two thrust washers here. When I'm done I make up a little skirt seal to keep trash out of the radial bearing and allow grease to flow out.

All of the above should equal the dimension between the flange and the retaining bolt and washer.

For other bearings, If you plan on an articulated front axle (I would) you will need at least a 1 inch solid crosspin and bushings. Bigger is better here.

Since I don't have a Cad program (couldn't use it if I did) and what I do (did) use for dimensioned drawing went away when my system crashed. Then I bought a new machine with Windows 7 which won't load the old software. Now I've been sick and my hand shakes so much I can't freehand it.

What that was all leading up to . . . is we can't do any more to the front end until the rear end is finished and firmly locked down. Your steering box location is finalized. Length, wheel base, axle drop and front track is established.

What we want is the contact patch established in the linier center of the tire with a 1/2 inch or so of trail behind the verticle centerline. In order for the Toe Out On Turns (TOOT) to be correct the front track is going to have to be about the same width as the original tractor (we can fudge that a bit though) 

Sorry to be so verbose Woody, I've been stuck in this house for over a week with this latest episode of the whats going around. I'm about ready to explode, in fact if I could stop wheezing and hacking long enough I think I would explode.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Jim,

Steering geometry is not too much of a problem, studied it 25 years ago and still have the text books.

I was playing with the two bearing that you included and decided that they may make good bottom bearings for the king pins as they will take axial and radial loads. I can then bush the rest of the kingpin.

The bearings I have ordered will be for the wheels. Making axle hubs is going to be cheaper then buying some and the ones I can buy are for 1" axles so I would have to machine a sleeve anyway.

The axle will pivot and I will probably bush a 27mm bolt for it just because I have some. I am aiming for a couple of radius arms going back towards the rear axle on to a ball joint. That should line up with the steering box to reduce bump steer.

I am roughing out components but, as you say, I can settle on anything until the rear end is done and I know the track and wheel base. At the moment the wheel base is going to depend on what batteries I decide to use and how much space they take up.

I still have the motor end cap to make, motor mount, chain case, rear and wheel spacers. Then I need to figure out where I will sit and where my feet need to go. That will need to be fixed as I can't adjust my legs! That will then determine the steering wheel and hence the steering box.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am just recovering from being ill this last week, probably exhaustion as no other symtoms except for extreme tiredness, fatigue and a slight fever. I did make it into work and taught a couple of classes and cancelled one but I suffered for it.

So I got on with some work yesterday and today.

I managed to pick up a very cheap pair of wheels and tyres that I decided to use as the bolt holes are 12mm on 4"pcd as opposed to the ones I had which were 6mm holes on a 6" or so pcd. They are also wider and with a higher load capacity.









I machined some tubes to take the hub bearings. I used scaffold tube as it was the right size and removed most of the galvanising so I could weld it.
I then started cutting some 10mm plate to make the flange for the wheel bolts.
All that hacksawing is hard work so I only managed to cut one, first into a hexagon and then into a, umm.... twelveagon? before turning it held on the centre bore. The bore was just a random hole from a hole saw but good enough as a start.









I then found that I couldn't hold the flange on the lathe chuck to machine the bore and mark the bolt holes.
I pondered it for a while before I decided to remove the chuck and use the back plate as a makeshift faceplate. The back plate had three holes in it so I cut a bit of aluminum plate to size and marked the three holes at 90mm pcd.
It didn't fit. The holes were not equidistant. I then drilled three more holes adjusted to fit and tapped to M8. I bolted the aluminium to the backplate and turned it round and made a centering rebate in it to fit the backplate. It was then reversed, refitted and trued up. I maked the four 4"pcd holes and then drilled and tapped to M8.
I could then bolt the flanges to the plate for turning and also use the same fitting to turn the motor end cap and any other large plates.









So now I have one of the flanges drilled and turned and pressed onto the hub.

















I will tap the four holes to M12 for the bolts and then press the flange on to the hub for welding. I will need to work out the wheel offset relative to the steering arms to ensure that the wheels don't rub.

That's all for now. All that work and then theatre reherasals has left me shattered.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I spent a good day in the workshop today, slow and steady with a few good rest breaks.
I managed to finish the hubs. The second one I began to hack saw but decided to buy some new blades for the jigsaw. The second was quicker to machine as I knew what I was doing with it this time.
The bolt holes were drilled, adjusted and then tapped to M12. The flanges were then pressed onto the hubs and the offset established. I then welded them both sides. The welding was rough as there was still some galvanising in places and I am still using up some old rods I found in a damp bucket some years ago . Also I was rushing the job rather then having a break first and coming back to it fresh.

















So while I still had the faceplate on the lathe and some new jigsaw blades I decided to make the motor endcap.
I cut a slab of 22mm aluminium to a 7 1/2" square and marked out the principle diameters. I also marked out the faceplate holes at 4"pcd for mounting on the lathe and also four holes at 8" pcd in the corners for mounting the motor.









The two holes in the bearing bore are for bearing extraction by jacking it out with a couple of bolts. The two counter bored holes are teh 4"pcd holes. I had to counterbore the bolts in so that I didn't machine the heads off them. It meant that I also had to cut a slot so the bolts could be screwed in with a screw driver.

The existing alloy ring on the motor frame has four randomly placed threaded holes, presumably for its original use. I added a fifth hole to complete the spacing. The holes were tapped in a UNC thread for which I had no bolts so I retapped at M6.
However, I didn't have an M6 tap either and the only screws I had were slightly too short and countersunk No.3 Posidrive stainless from another job.
I cut some flutes onto one of the screws and used it as a tap to recut the threaded holes and to tap the new hole in the alloy mounting ring.
The endcap holes were then counterbored to take the contersunk screwheads.

























I then refitted the alloy ring and endcap to the motor and my phone cam batteries ran out.









I did debate for a while what orientation to have the square plate relative to the terminal bolts and decided that having the bolts 90deg to the square was easier to work with later then at 45deg.

I am hoping I don't get complaints from the neighbours in the morning as I was still machining at 11.45pm!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Good to see you back at it Wood!  still lurking with interest!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A quick overview:
























The motor may be placed under the seat, it seems to fit nicely there and moves more weight forwards. It will mean that I will put my four gel batteries lying on the sides right at the front in a stack. It will leave room between the batteries and the motor to put the steering box and a 'transmission tunnel' to house the controller and electrical bits in a demountable box.
Foot controlls can go either side of that.

The space behind the seat can be used for something driven off the pulley as a PTO. The seat may also be something better but for now the old plastic will do as a guide and for scale.

I decided to work on the rear wheel spacers/adpators.
I had two 10" steel discs I found at the scrap metal yard so I marked them out and pilot drilled all the holes to fit them to the tractor wheel hubs. I also drilled holes to mount the plate on the lathe for turning.









The notch in the edge won't matter but the disc is big enough to be a disc brake with a mechanical caliper.
I have machined a rebate on one side to fit the existing hub and on the other side I will need to add a bit of 3" tube to use as a short extension to a smaller plate to match the wheel centre.

But for now, food and theatre rehersals.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

This was more fiddly to set up then I thought.

With a lot of messing about today I finally decided to go out and buy, from a steel stock holder, some 60mm OD pipe to make the rear wheel hubs.
I am a little worried about the bending moment on the axle shaft if I have the rear wheel track too wide. The axle is only semi floating and the original hub is already dished 1" for the original wheels. I was planning on adding another 2 1/2" to meet the wheel centre allowing space to make the spacer into a disc brake. I might scrub that and push the wheel dish tight up against the spacer disc. It would move the wheel in 1 1/2" from where it was going to be.

The 60mm pipe is a snug fit on the wheel centre hole so I will see what it is like.
Here is the first one. The other one will be made tomorrow.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

WOW - WOW - WOW.

Here now, what is going on here? I go take a week vacation in hospital and you go and build a darn near complete tractor from scratch. Awsome work from limited resources DUDE.

I like your choice of front wheels. The others had a retro look. This is better.

Glad I didn't leave the building yet, (got kind of close this time), I want to see what you end up with. A bit of excitement, Emergency (911) sevices 10 inches of snow in a 1/8 mile driveway, darring EMS service's hero slogging through the snow with the meds carried on his back, I'm out of portable Oxygen, can't breath, can't get back to the house, passing out, daring rescues, everything but blood. . . Where are the NEWs coptors and cameras when I'm the star. Sorry, no news at 11:00

I'm having a ball watching what you are doing. I know this stuff can be done (been there, done that). It's just the way you present the stuff, it's FUN

I can't wait until I get the chance to post bits on our new pulling tractor with the 13 inch motor. See if we can have as much fun as you seem to.

Some small suggestions. 
I beleive those are 16 inch rear wheels and if so they are a natural for 16 agrcultural tires. Ag tires are MUCH taller, even if you don't use them (over here, qiute often you can find used ones cheap), a subsiquent ower might want to. Try www.millertire.com or others to get sizes and visuals. Try to design that fitment into the overall scheme. Maybe a second swap in axle with dropped spindles for use with ag tires and standard axle when used with mud and snows. 

Also remember that weight equals traction and power is transmitted through the REAR tires. Leave room back ther to add weight if needed. The big diameter of the ag tires will let you run these things in some pretty soft stuff.

Finally, try to route any pulling/pushing stress through/into that big cast iron housing. Things like a snow plow, you can mount the blade lift to the frame, but the push bars should go into the transaxle.

I think that in the end your going to end up with a very slow, very versitile, very powerful Tractor Thingy that you are going to have a ball using and lending out to the neighbors. Plus you will have all of the fun of finding and fixing the problems and more fun making implements. 

You seem to have a concern about braking, my suggestion is a small car caliper (hydraluic is fine) and master cylinder from a wrecking yard that can be mounted to the rear drive sprocket. You can go for split system differential braking (it is handy, even on something so small) but without knowing what's inside that diff I wouldn't do it for fear of breakage. A single caliper on the sprocket with the internal reduction will do all of the stopping you might need unless you plan on going into the house moving business. Look at rear calipers with parking brake mechanisms inside (some older honda and vw come to mind). They had an external arm the rotated a ratcheting screw that would apply the caliper piston.

Enough for now, I slept myself out in the hospital but it's catching up and I need to do the meds yet tonight.

Have fun.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> WOW - WOW - WOW.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear you are recovering. That is good news. I am as much posting all the little details as I know that you would enjoy reading them all. It would be so boring if it was just 'Fit, fit, fit, done!'
I am having fun with it and knowing that you are watching makes it all the more fun to have a go at stuff and find solutions.



Jimdear2 said:


> I like your choice of front wheels. The others had a retro look. This is better.


I figured the static weight on the front would be quite high with all the batteries there and so I didn't want the tyres to be on their limit. They also look more in keeping with the wide 'slicks' on the back for hotrodding!


Jimdear2 said:


> Some small suggestions.
> I beleive those are 16 inch rear wheels and if so they are a natural for 16 agrcultural tires. Ag tires are MUCH taller, even if you don't use them (over here, qiute often you can find used ones cheap), a subsiquent ower might want to. Try www.millertire.com or others to get sizes and visuals. Try to design that fitment into the overall scheme. Maybe a second swap in axle with dropped spindles for use with ag tires and standard axle when used with mud and snows.
> 
> Also remember that weight equals traction and power is transmitted through the REAR tires. Leave room back ther to add weight if needed. The big diameter of the ag tires will let you run these things in some pretty soft stuff.


Yep, 16". I kept to that despite it being easier to use a couple of 14" dual rims from a Transit van. I figured that there are lots of cheap Land Rover and mini dumper tyres out there that I would eventually find a set to use. The variable height front end has crossed my mind and I have already raised the transaxle on stands to see what it would look like.

The 60mm hub tubes are 6" long so that they project well into the wheel well with a view to hanging wheel weight on them if needed, though if I don't stop eating so much cake I may be looking at helium in the tyres to make it tread more lightly!



Jimdear2 said:


> Finally, try to route any pulling/pushing stress through/into that big cast iron housing. Things like a snow plow, you can mount the blade lift to the frame, but the push bars should go into the transaxle.
> 
> I think that in the end your going to end up with a very slow, very versitile, very powerful Tractor Thingy that you are going to have a ball using and lending out to the neighbors. Plus you will have all of the fun of finding and fixing the problems and more fun making implements.


Yes, I am looking at slow in preference to hotrod. I was always more into irrisistable force rather then out and out speed in my car playing days, hence a massive 6x6 Land Rover and an AEC Matador.
There are suitable bolt holes around the transaxle for locating impliments, both front and back.



Jimdear2 said:


> You seem to have a concern about braking, my suggestion is a small car caliper (hydraluic is fine) and master cylinder from a wrecking yard that can be mounted to the rear drive sprocket. You can go for split system differential braking (it is handy, even on something so small) but without knowing what's inside that diff I wouldn't do it for fear of breakage. A single caliper on the sprocket with the internal reduction will do all of the stopping you might need unless you plan on going into the house moving business. Look at rear calipers with parking brake mechanisms inside (some older honda and vw come to mind). They had an external arm the rotated a ratcheting screw that would apply the caliper piston.


I have been looking at the little calipers from the 2CV gearbox as they have hydraulic and mechanical pads. The pipework is tiny though so a trip to the breakers may be needed. I wanted to have the disc brakes as I had in mind fiddle brakes for steering and in lieu of a diff lock as well as being service brakes.
The parking brake can be a simple sprag, on a lever, through the spokes of the drive pulley.

I was really just concerned about the loading on the axle shafts and bearings though if I were to allow room for big calipers. I might still make the calipers though as I can make them thinner along the lines of the X-Brake for the Land Rover parking brake.











Jimdear2 said:


> Enough for now, I slept myself out in the hospital but it's catching up and I need to do the meds yet tonight.
> 
> Have fun.


Take good care of yourself.
I watched your YouTube videos again the other night as inspiration.
Looking forward to the 13" videos.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Grrrrrrrrr!

I decided to have another test of the motor with the sprocket shaft in place. I've not run the motor at all since making the shafts for both the tractor and the MR2.

There was a visible wibble on the sprocket shaft so I tried the MR2 coupler and there was a wobble there too!

I put the dial guage on it and there was about 0.5mm whip on the shaft end.

I checked the shafts between centres on the lathe and chucked on the splines and both were true.

With a lot of head scratching and checking I think the motor shaft might not be true!
The outside of it where the bearing sits is fine, the internal splines seem to run out!

My first shaft was a little loose so I figured that the slight run out on it was due to slackness. Maybe it wasn't.

I am going out to dinner tonight so I am going to leave it and come back to it with a clear head in the morning.

Maybe I need to reduce my splines down and make it a wobbly loose fit so that it self aligns in the bearings.

So I have achieved very little this afternoon. I was going to cut some more 10mm scrap yard plate to make the wheel hub flanges with the 5 holes at 108mm pcd for the rear wheels but the plate wouldn't cut. Even with a 9" disc cutter it was barely making much of a cut in it. I don't know what sort of steel it is but it is really hard. I will have to get something else.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Grrrrrrrrr!
> 
> I decided to have another test of the motor with the sprocket shaft in place. I've not run the motor at all since making the shafts for both the tractor and the MR2..


Woody,

Been thinking about your wobble. 

First I think it is probably a non-problem once you get the two output shaft support bearings firmly mounted to the drive end motor cap you made. 

You should have the armature properly supported now with the bearing in the end plate made. As long as the armature is centered in the fields, there is not going to be any problem there. 

The output shaft is going to be held into concentric alignment to the motor by the mounting and placement of the two shaft support bearings.

I've run into this spline alignment thing previously and have come mto the conclusion that it is un-important. there is goining to be some sort of slop with that kind of spline connection.

I would bet you could, by steping the output shaft into the armature spline one tooth at a time, find the original trueness.

In order for that sprocket shaft to have any contricity the shaft would have to have been turned while in the armature, it would require a master location and a very tight fit.

In effect the spline is going to act as a flexible coupler, absorbing any slight misanignments. As long as there is no binding when it's all put together don't worry about it.

I think you should spend your available worry time elsewhere.
Jim



Woodsmith said:


> There was a visible wibble on the sprocket shaft so I tried the MR2 coupler and there was a wobble there too!
> 
> I put the dial guage on it and there was about 0.5mm whip on the shaft end.
> 
> ...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

A agree with Jim. Looking at my own recent coupler experience. First time i fitted it to the motor , the gearbox was doing the funky chicken! It was just a case of finding the one location it was happy and grinding back a bolt head. Its extremely frustrating but the best thing to do is down tools and take a break.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks guys.
I've left the wobble alone and not been back in the workshop since (doing accounts and lesson plans instead) but it still bugs me.

If it was just loose then I guess it would be ok as a 'flexible joint' but at anything more then about 5mm engagement the shaft whips round against the bearings. I can't even hold the outer bearing to centre it without it vibrating my hand.

I Think I will turn the splines to a slight barrel shape so that it has a proper wobble. That may give the bearings a fair chance of centrering the shaft without too much induced vibration.

It does mean that I daren't use it on the MR2 as there is no point risking any damage to the gearbox.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

It's at times like this "*Get A Bigger Hammer*" sounds like good advice.

Like Jack says, Down Tools, Take a Second Look.

My guess is you have a chip or rough spot in the splines at it's current installed location. 

Pull shaft out
polish and clean
Step one spline (counter) Clockwise
Recheck; If N/G
Pull shaft out
polish and clean
Step one spline (counter) Clockwise
Recheck; If N/G

Continue above until a satisfactory fit is acheived then place matchmarks.



Woodsmith said:


> Thanks guys.
> I've left the wobble alone and not been back in the workshop since (doing accounts and lesson plans instead) but it still bugs me.


This kind of runout bugged the H*** out of me as well until I thought the whole power path through. I'm running 2 ea. 1.1L 150 hp M/C engines through one 1 1/8th inch spline shafts necked down to 7/8 inch, chain drive down to a common input shaft to a single trans. and am doing it at 5000 shaft rpm. Like Jack says the Funkey Chicken! Still haven't broken anything in 5 years.



Woodsmith said:


> If it was just loose then I guess it would be ok as a 'flexible joint' but at anything more then about 5mm engagement the shaft whips round against the bearings. I can't even hold the outer bearing to centre it without it vibrating my hand.
> 
> I Think I will turn the splines to a slight barrel shape so that it has a proper wobble. That may give the bearings a fair chance of centrering the shaft without too much induced vibration.


As I said before, probably a chip or tight spot. You get a chance, look over some of the antique farm machines that still run (some with no reworkinng) after 100 years of service. What you are building is a marvel of moderen engineering.

Before I would remove any more metal, I would wire brush and polish and test fit, see it you cant find that sweet spot.



Woodsmith said:


> It does mean that I daren't use it on the MR2 as there is no point risking any damage to the gearbox.


Heck no! ! ! As long as the motor output center line and the transmisson input center line are concentric and properly supported, whatever coupleing is in between doese't (within reason) matter.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I skimmed the splines a little so they are not a dead snug fit and then, as you said, rotated around until there was a 'sweet spot'. I added a bit of light oil to allow the splines to move and settle more easily and it was there.

I marked the motor shaft to line up with the keyway and there it will stay.

I did the same on the MR2 coupling too so that is now acceptable by feel. Being loose fit the dial gauge was useless so it was down to finger tips on the spinny bits.

I can now get back to the important job of rear wheel hubs, and the accounts I guess. I'm up to date to June last year and still have to October to get done. Being ASD this sort of paperwork isn't easy and is very stressful but I can't afford someone else to do it for me. Maybe I need to.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Whew!!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Whew!!!


Quite.

I really wanted it spot on to prevent vibration but this is close enough I think. Anyway, I still have 7 more bearings so there are a few spare if they wear out.


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## darel60 (Feb 22, 2010)

Hey man you have really got great mind.
Hats off to you and best of luck for this.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Darel.

Having got my accounts out the way I did a bit more real work today.

I found a pair of 5 stud hubs in the scrap metal yard that seemed to fit my wheels. They didn't, 118mm pcd instead of the 108mm pcd that I needed. I think they are the drive hubs from a Jaguar rear axle as there were 3 diffs and some suspension parts from the same at the yard.

I have marked the correct stud holes in the hubs and I will turn off the bearing spigot and splines and bore them to fit my 60mm hub tubes. It saves me cutting steel discs at least.

I only got an hour in the workshop today so I should have them done, all being well, during the weekend.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Here's a photo of one of the hubs on the lathe. This one will need the long bearing spigot cutting off an then the round flange can be bored to 60mm and then drilled to the stud pattern. It can then be welded onto the tractor hubs.









I also picked up the brake calipers today.








They seem in good order and will just need some new pads (which will probably outlast the tractor!) and plumbing in to work.
They are, I've been told M10x1 pipe unions using 3/16" pipe.
The Land Rover clutch master cylinders I want to use is 3/8" UNF also with 3/16" pipe so it should be an easy job to connect up.

I can either have two master cylinders on two pedals to get service brakes and to have fiddle brakes for steering or I can have one master cylinder on one pedal for the service brakes and then two left foot in line master cylinders for the fiddle brakes making it a four pedal tractor!

I also got some bronze bushes to use on the front kingpins. Two at 3/4" bore and two at 11/16" bore in case the kingpins are a little worn and I need to bore to fit.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Glad to see progress. 

On the rear brakes I would go with two side by side masters for what you call fiddle brakes (we call them differential steering brakes) and then use a link bar to tie the pedals together when you need streight brakeing. 

I think you said that you are going to weld these new hubs into the existing tractor stuff. Those flanges arn't cast iron are they? Hope not, that stainless rod to weld steel to cast iron is expensive.

By the way you mentioned you were using damp rod and getting crappy welds. You may already know this but try baking the rod in an oven for a while, if the rod isn't too far gone it helps.

You are going to need at least one 3/4 inch ID brass and one 3/4 inch ID steel thrust washer for each side to support the front end. They will go between the axle you are building and the welded on thrust washers of the spindles.

I've gone back to limited work on the new tractor and started a build thread titled Big 13 Pulling Tractor and Sand Rail.

Got the text in but I'm having trouble with Windows 7 allowing me to place or follow links to attachments. I've been here before and know what to do but it takes a while. Might go back to an XP machine for this DIY stuff. Look it up when you have time. I'll get the art in this weekend.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey Jim,

Good to see you up and working again.

I think I am coming down with something, a fitful 12 hours of sleep and I have a head ache and bunged up sinuses!

The hubs are steel so they will weld fine. I did bake the rods but they have some spot contamination, a bit of rust and some of the coating is chipped off in places so though they work they are difficult. But while there is a bucket full of them I am reluctant to buy new when the welds are well over requirement anyway.

I am using the ball thrust bearings you supplied with the spindles on the king pins with the bush at the top end. That should be ok.
I also drilled out the UNC threads and re tapped to M12 all round to make my life easier. The hubs are now secured with a short length of HT studding and a couple of nuts locked on the end.

The fiddle brakes are going to be one master cylinder with reservoir feeding into two slave cylinders, one for each wheel.
It will mean that I can have throttle and brake under my right foot and the steering brakes under my left foot. A kit of unions and copper pipe is cheap enough to make it worth doing that way. I think it will be more intuative for me but I can't plumb anything for a while as I will still need to split the tractor to get it out the basement.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ouch!

Having machined and drilled one of the hubs I started tapping the M12 holes. The tap caught and snapped and as it whiped round the sharp end slashed my finger open.

I've just ordered a new M12 tap form Ebay after a second dressing change due to leakage.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Having machined and drilled one of the hubs I started tapping the M12 holes. The tap caught and snapped and as it whiped round the sharp end slashed my finger open.
> 
> I've just ordered a new M12 tap form Ebay after a second dressing change due to leakage.


 
Woody,

Just a nudge in the ribs, Cut metal not flesh

No stiches I hope?

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Just a nudge in the ribs, Cut metal not flesh
> 
> ...


No stitches, just a lot ouch.

It was my own fault, obviously it was my fault as I teach health and safety.

The hole I was tapping was right across a rebate on the hub. It was marked and drilled on the flat side but I was tapping from the other side where it emerged on the rebate. It was only small and I should have returned it to the lathe and skimmed it off, but I didn't.

Also I normally start the tap in the pillar drill to make sure it was upright, again I didn't and started the first two by hand sucessfully.

Then, on the third, the tap gave up and shot sidways to where my fingers where steadying the tap as it started.

Left hand ring finger now has a ragged gash from the crease of the end joint around to the edge of the nail.
My own fault for trying to do some work tonight when I was already sporting a mild head ache and maybe the beginings of a cold and tire from work. 
I do know better.

So I am up at 3.40 in the morning with a cup of tea, a bowl of noodles and some pain killers. Ho hum!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> No stitches, just a lot ouch.
> 
> It was my own fault, obviously it was my fault as I teach health and safety.
> 
> ...


Woody,

Know that drag butt feeling well. Sitting up while feeling bad is a royal pain. 

I have to get up every 4 to 6 hours and do an albuterol inhalation and generally try to do something positive, but lately, yuck. I think winter blues and cabin fever has got a hold of me. In the last few weeks we have had mostly cloudy and snowy weather and that does wear on you.

I should be setting up the old PC to get back to XP so I can upload the pictures that Win7 won't do because of a incompatibility with a older program load that won't compleatly uninstal. Going to have to reload Win 7, this has happened before.

It has been a blessing that I have been able to do somethings over at my friends place. My basement is too cold right now. Your basement must be a blessing for you. A place to be creative in directions you want to go just for yourself.

Our new tractor is going to be a radical departure from accepted practice so we are not able to just grab existing stuff and plug it in like most ultralights. Just like yours everything requires thought.

I guess from what I read that you guys over in Merry Olde have a lot of the same weather conditions. Just cold and cloudy enough to be depressing.

Joy Joy, two or three weeks and we will see green and sunshine start back into our lives and we can start accomplishing things.

Can't wait until you have the TT above ground level and can make it move.

I just hope that you get it to a stable, useable point befor ou start off on the car again.

Of course I want to see how that works out as well. I always liked that make model, but was always too practicle to buy one. You need trucks in the country.

Ah enough ramblin. need to go to sleep. and for sure I better start using PM for this type of crap. Not too much DIY in the above.

Heal Fast (thats an order)
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Heal Fast (thats an order)
> Jim


Yesss Sir! (salutes)

It is only a finger but the sore bit is the bit I use to press the left shift on the keyboard, control the movement of the handles on the lathe, steady components while cramping up on the drill press, etc.

I have been doing a bit more machining today but gloves and lathe handles don't allow for good control, or safety. Plus I got it bleeding again.

I think I will work on something else, front axle, bearing mounts for the chain drive, workshop spring clean maybe.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I set to work on the lathe again wanting to finish off the rear hubs. I finished machining the second hub, drilled the stud holes and made sure I machined off the rebate on the flat side. I then got on with machining the rebate off the first hub but the stud holes made it both noisy and clunky and I didn't want to break another tip on the tool. 

I took it easy but then found that the big first reduction pulley was slipping. I tightened up the set screws. I then found in the swarf, another set screw that had fallen out from somewhere else.

Then the motor stopped.

With a bit of frustrated testing I found the starting and running coils to be ok so I reckoned on the capacitor being faulty. I borrowed a cap from another motor and tried it. The motor ran but was a bit rough. That was put down to the cap being the wrong size.
We spent much of this afternoon hunting through our stock of electrical stuff for a 16uF cap to no avail so Maplins kindly charged me £5.57 for one. Of course the new cap was physically bigger and had exposed terminals so I had to make a new insulating cover for it to protect it from metal swarf.

I then found where that other set screw came from. The second of the two set screws on the speed change pulleys was about to fall out. Both replaced and tightened.

I finished the rear hubs eventually.


































I will need to work out the wheel offset and then make a spacer to press both hubs on the same distance for welding.

I then started boring out the front king pin bearing sleeves.
I drilled out some solid bar to 14mm and then used the boring bar to open the bore to 19.5mm to give clearence for the spindle king pins.









I will bore out one end for the ball thrust bearing and the other end for the bronze bush.
It can then be welded onto the ends of the front axle.

I will need to work out the caster to put on the kingpin bearing sleeve so that the 40mm x 80mm box section front axle can remain plumb and level. There is a phospher broze tube on Ebay that I am tempted to buy for the front axle centre pivot.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I got a little silly!

I got me some big rubber!

























265 x 75 x 16 off road rubber.

I found them cheap on Ebay and thought I should get them fitted and on the tractor before I welded the hubs in place.
I did a bit of measuring and if I weld the hubs so the inner flange is 50mm from the disc I should have the sufficient clearence for the caliper and still have the tyre centre line as close as possible to the hub bearing. I need to keep the track as narrow as possible now.

I want to make up the drive shaft carriage for the motor now so that I can power it up as soon as the hubs are welded on.

I will be purchasing four 100Ah gel batteries for the tractor very soon and collecting a 10" motor from Simon Rafferty at the same time.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I dont know if you could justify the cost but i'd recommend odyssey batteries. They have insane power and almost no sag.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Go with it Woody! Now your talking Tractor! I think your impulsiveness will drive this beauty to a fabulous end. Just keep in mind the measurements of the opening of your shop.

Eric




Woodsmith said:


> I got a little silly!
> 
> I got me some big rubber!
> 
> ...


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

LOL Wood! Your tires remind me of my old "Beach Buggy" - chopped a 55 Ford flathead to a real short body added on a jeep grill... AND split the rims (so they were TWICE as wide) and put old Cadillac tires on them - really run the sand ... 

Keep it up I'll be watching!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> I dont know if you could justify the cost but i'd recommend odyssey batteries. They have insane power and almost no sag.


I don't know if I need insane power. At 48V the motor is rated at 3.1hp, thats 2312W and that works out at 48A. The controller can cope with 500A. I'm not sure what I will actually draw.

The batteries I am planning on getting are these as someone on the BVS forum recommended the seller and the batteries to me.



esoneson said:


> Go with it Woody! Now your talking Tractor! I think your impulsiveness will drive this beauty to a fabulous end. Just keep in mind the measurements of the opening of your shop.
> 
> Eric


Opening of my shop? The build is happening in a basement!
I will need to dismantel it to get it up the stairs and outside.


I visited the Doc today and was given some ABs for a chest infection and told to take a couple of days off to rest.

So what do I do when I get back? I set to making the motor drive shaft mount.
I hunted around the workshop scraps bin and found the replaceable oil seal rings from the hubs I was working on. It turns out that they were just the right size, with a skim on the lathe, to fit the bearings. I also had a bit of tube and some tread plate.
A bit of sawing, bashing and welding later and I came up with this. Not a measurement taken and all adjustments done with the big hammer. I tack welded at each stage and then refitted everything to the motor and then bashed it about until it ran smoothly. I then stitch welded and bashed in turn until it was all assembled.
The plate on the motor is removeable leaving the drive shaft intact. It will be welded to some more tread plate and then it will be bolted on sliders to the chassis rails.
























Much of the welding had to be done with the bearings and shaft in situ to aid alignment so I will replace the bearings with fresh ones a I am sure the seals and lube will have thrown in the towel by now.

As I was about to call it a day I couldn't help but break the chain and put in a split link. Not having a chain splitter I had to press the pin out in the vice using a small socket and a M4 bolt.
I then assembled the chain and got a battery from the MR2 and connected up.


Using a small car ammeter it draws around 15A.


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## Dalardan (Jul 4, 2008)

Woohoo! That's a nice milestone.

Good job for the shaft mount. It will also protect what's around the little sprocket which is a good idea. Do you plan to make a whole scatter shield over that fast spinning chain just under your butt? 

Great build.

Dalardan


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks.

Yes, there will be a 'bullet proof' chain guard that will allow for easy access to the pulleys for a PTO and will also be able to allow for chain tensioning. It may be part of the wheel arch/mud guard that will go between me and those wheels!

Have you heard the story of Parry Thomas, the land speed record breaker? The (inaccurate IIRC) story was that a drive chain on his car, Bab's, broke during a record attempt and decapitated him. It was only after his car was dug up out of the Pendine sands that they found the chain guards intact.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yes, there will be a 'bullet proof' chain guard that will allow for easy access to the pulleys for a PTO and will also be able to allow for chain tensioning. It may be part of the wheel arch/mud guard that will go between me and those wheels!


Nice movie - took me forever to download on dial-up - Curious if you were going to put in a small idler sprocket with spring to auto-tension the chain slap on high torque dig-ins ( and just in general ) ?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Nice movie - took me forever to download on dial-up - Curious if you were going to put in a small idler sprocket with spring to auto-tension the chain slap on high torque dig-ins ( and just in general ) ?


I hadn't thought of that as an option. The problem would come in reversing the motor to go backwards, the tensioner would then be on the drive side.

The other way would be to have two tensioners mounted on a swinging arm so that the drive side can always be a straight run.

Maybe if I come across two small sprockets or maybe even just a rubbing tensioner pad.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

What about a timing belt tensioner? I get em free from a local garage. Very usefull for belt drives etc.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I just tried running the chain with a bearing on a stick to see what the tension is like.

Apart from the motor moving about I think most of the chain slap is that the large sprocket has a bit of run out. The bore seems ok so I think it is where the triple pulley bolts to the large pulley. A small run out there would be a large run out at the sprocket teeth.

I shall have a look at truing it up. I was on Ebay looking at timing belt and timing chain tensioners last night just to see what shape they came in.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I just tried running the chain with a bearing on a stick to see what the tension is like.
> 
> Apart from the motor moving about I think most of the chain slap is that the large sprocket has a bit of run out. The bore seems ok so I think it is where the triple pulley bolts to the large pulley. A small run out there would be a large run out at the sprocket teeth.
> 
> I shall have a look at truing it up. I was on Ebay looking at timing belt and timing chain tensioners last night just to see what shape they came in.


Yep - the sprocket has run-out AND the Chain will stretch a bit as used - hence the the tensioner .... Not a big deal to do.. but will be better in the long run for the sprockets ...

Er --- still lurking....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Yep - the sprocket has run-out AND the Chain will stretch a bit as used - hence the the tensioner .... Not a big deal to do.. but will be better in the long run for the sprockets ...
> 
> Er --- still lurking....


I spent a bit too much time trying to centre the sprocket this afternoon and although I can get it close it never quite sits right. I am going to take the whole thing apart and true it on the lathe on a spindle.
I was playing around with the idea of having the motor carriage on a sprung mount but that would be more complicated then just fitting a tensioner. 

I did get the front kingpin sleeves machined and bushed. They will need a light reeming to get a good fit and a grease nipple fitted. I will also ned to get a washer on the bottom end so the bearing has a clean surface to rest on.

















Once that is done I can work out the best castor angle to use and weld them to the front axle beam.

Out to the theatre group's AGM tonight. They have asked me to grow a beard for our up and coming production of Calamity Jane!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I managed to finish the rear hubs this evening. I tapped the holes in the flange to M12 and then pressed the hub flanges on to the 60mm hub tube. With a bit of messing about I got the flanges in the right place and welded them both sides.









I then fitted the bolts with lock washers and used nyloc nuts to act as locators for the conical stud holes in the wheel.









Being money tight I decided to only buy a pack of ten nylocs as I had 5 stud wheels. It would have been a good idea except that, as can only be expected, one of the nuts was only half formed and useless!
I will need to go out to a DIY shed tomorrow to buy one nut!









Anyway, I fitted the rear wheels for now and gave it a spin.










Those big wheels are scary!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Those big wheels are scary!


LOL NOW add two MORE big wheels to that Rear - extra dig-in extra stable on those hairpin turns ...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> LOL NOW add two MORE big wheels to that Rear - extra dig-in extra stable on those hairpin turns ...


LOL!

I will be saved that option by the fact that these are scrap yard wheels of uncertain heritige so it is unlikely I will find a second set. Same goes for the tyres. I'm not spending twice the cost of the tractor for a second set of big tyres.

However, it is tempting....










Or even


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Once that is done I can work out the best castor angle to use and weld them to the front axle beam.


Depending on what you plan and where you will drive it

*All soft stuff*


1 degree of negative to 1 degree of positive caster with no negitive camber and maybe some positive camber 0 toe in

Use for All soft dirt never out of the garden.
Steers really easy in the super soft dirt due to no trail. Since you plan fiddle brakes this set up is probably not needed
Really funky steering at anything over a creep
Backing up can be difficult
Not real good for pushing
*Some soft and some hard surface, Real good on lawn*

1.5 to 2 degrees of Negitive Caster with 0 to 1.5 degrees of negitive camber and about 1/16 to 1/8 toe in. Go to as much as 3 degrees caster if you ever plan on speeds above 6 or 7 MPH.
This is pretty general purpose
Should give easy steering and follow (self steer) well when steering differential brakes are used
From what I can sketch/guess from the pictures you will have about 3/4 to 1 inch of trail, which helps keep the wheels streight when on rough ground.
It looks like you have the KPI point intersecting just about in the inner third of the tire which should slow down stering kick back and give a bit of dig in when turning.
The remaining angles are built into the spindles I sent, so toe out on turns will be OK for the width you seem to be aiming for. There should be very little scrub.
I recommend that you set the king pin bushings into the axle to give 0 degrees caster and whatever you decide you want for camber. You then set your center pivot bushing in at a angle to give the caster you want.
Another method is to set the pivot pin and bushing into the axle to give 0 caster then use mount plates with different dimensions to give desired caster.
Most garden tractors set caster at 0 degrees. It's just that they self center and steer straight so much better with a little bit of caster.
I sure do like the way this is all falling together. in the end it is going to look better then a lot of the commercial built units. Also with the chain and sprocket set up you should quickly find the right gearing for the use you want 

You must have a magic eye when you go to the scrap yard to spot so many thing that fit together with a little massaging. It looks like you are going to have the back end finished to an 85% point (mechanically done, everything but touch up, clean up and paint) within the next couple of weeks, baring other commitments.

A suggestion for the frame rails, maybe another length welded on to create a box section. It looks like the tractor thingie is going to be long enough to twist.

Keep on
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> *Some soft and some hard surface, Real good on lawn*
> 
> I recommend that you set the king pin bushings into the axle to give 0 degrees caster and whatever you decide you want for camber. You then set your center pivot bushing in at a angle to give the caster you want.


Thanks for your input, Jim.
I was thinking of setting the caster angle on the centre pivot, it saves trying to get both ends of the axle to match at an angle. If I get it slightly out it will still be the same at each end.



Jimdear2 said:


> A suggestion for the frame rails, maybe another length welded on to create a box section. It looks like the tractor thingie is going to be long enough to twist.
> 
> Keep on
> Jim


When I started it was quite a small tractor and I was thinking it was over length. Now as it has developed the length is right but the rails are now too small at only 40x40x4mm. I hadn't done anything about it as without batteries yet nothing much is happening between the axles.

I had thought about making the existing rails into a triangulated frame but that is a lot of work. I am going to leave them for planning as a template and then replace them with whatever I have to hand. I have a lot of random lengths of box section and some I beams. 

I think maybe replace the long chassis rails with two 60x40mm or some 100x50mm box and then sit everything on top of the rails.

Or I can use 50x50mm box and have top and bottom rails running under and over the battery pack forming a cage.

I also have some 6"x3" rolled steel channel beams. One length as a backbone rail migh work, though a bit weighty.

I will need to start measuring my stock to see what I have of the right lengths, maybe another visit to the scrap metal yard is in order.




Jimdear2 said:


> You must have a magic eye when you go to the scrap yard to spot so many thing that fit together with a little massaging.


Ahhh, that is one of the advantages of having ASD. I can carry a design, and all its possible permutations and development directions in my head and then see things that fall in place for any future stage of the process. I also carry a pen and note book of dimensions and a tape measure.

It is funny that I can spot exactly the bit of wood or metal that will be right for a job in a scrap yard but I can't spot my own Mum, or any one else I know, when our paths cross while out shopping.

Now, I will go to bed or the morning will be lost.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I decided to strat building a new and stronger chassis today. Having measured my stock of steel the best pieces of sufficent length were two 2"x2"x1/8" square box. They were 4" too short really but that can be resolved.

At the mounting end I needed to reduce the box down to about 1/4" thick for the mounting hole. I decided to weld on a 5" length of 50x50x6mm angle. I drilled the 16mm hole first and then decided to cut the box to a 45deg angle at the end. The cut was then capped with some 6mm plate. I then welded the angle to the end of the box section. This was repeated for the other side.









To overcome the length I am going to weld on a cross member at the front of the chassis. This is going to be a length of 100x50mm laid on the flat. This will bring the overall length back to where I want it. The cross member will be capped at each end so it is stronger and not open to the elements. I will also weld on another cross member part way along the underside of the chassis rails. This will act as a pick up point for the front axle radius arms. I will cut some more of the 6mm angle to pick up the top bolts on the transaxle but I want to decide on the seat height and position so that they can also be part of the seat mounting.

I stopped work at this point as I had hack sawed through 96" of 1/8" steel and 38" of 6mm steel and was panting for breath and coughing. My Father visited the workshop and commented on the amount of smoke. I hadn't realised how much the welding fumes had built up. 
Hmmm, welding fumes, breathless, chest infection. Not a good combination.

I spent the rest of the day sorting out a powerful centrifugal fan, a big hole in one wall and designing some shaped ducting to join the fan to an air brick in the outside wall. I had to stop that early due to the noise of knocking holes in the wall at 9.30pm. I will carry on tomorrow.
I also took the time to reorganise the lighting in the workshop. I moved some of the lights so that I wasn't casting a shadow over my work space and then added some more lights above the vice and the welding corner. Fortunately I did the wiring originally and so left a lot of slack in the cable for future changes.

My Mother also popped in for a look and all she had to say was 'Those are big wheels! How are you going to get it out of the basement?'


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I decided to strat building a new and stronger chassis today. Having measured my stock of steel the best pieces of sufficent length were two 2"x2"x1/8" square box. They were 4" too short really but that can be resolved.
> 
> At the mounting end I needed to reduce the box down to about 1/4" thick for the mounting hole. I decided to weld on a 5" length of 50x50x6mm angle. I drilled the 16mm hole first and then decided to cut the box to a 45deg angle at the end. The cut was then capped with some 6mm plate. I then welded the angle to the end of the box section. This was repeated for the other side.


I think that you are on the right track, you will want the front able to carry sustantial weight to counter balance something like a PTO roto tiller while being stiff enough to have the front end come off the ground while carring that weight. 



Woodsmith said:


> To overcome the length I am going to weld on a cross member at the front of the chassis. This is going to be a length of 100x50mm laid on the flat. This will bring the overall length back to where I want it. The cross member will be capped at each end so it is stronger and not open to the elements. I will also weld on another cross member part way along the underside of the chassis rails. This will act as a pick up point for the front axle radius arms. I will cut some more of the 6mm angle to pick up the top bolts on the transaxle but I want to decide on the seat height and position so that they can also be part of the seat mounting..


Most garden tractors build enough stiffness into the front axle pivot pin and generally use rub plates to keep the front axle square to the frame. Radius arms may be a bit of over kill here. As always the KISS principle should win out. You are the man on site so you do what you see needed.



Woodsmith said:


> I stopped work at this point as I had hack sawed through 96" of 1/8" steel and 38" of 6mm steel and was panting for breath and coughing. My Father visited the workshop and commented on the amount of smoke. I hadn't realised how much the welding fumes had built up.
> Hmmm, welding fumes, breathless, chest infection. Not a good combination..


Woody, since you know my medical background you know what I'm going to say about this situation.

&^%$)***%#[email protected]!^%$#&^%%$#*(*&^%^@##$%^&*(*^$%@%*((**&^%$^&**(((()))&&^$%#[email protected]#$%^^& and don't you ever do it again.

I can tell you being a slave to an oxygen tank is NOT fun.



Woodsmith said:


> I spent the rest of the day sorting out a powerful centrifugal fan, a big hole in one wall and designing some shaped ducting to join the fan to an air brick in the outside wall. I had to stop that early due to the noise of knocking holes in the wall at 9.30pm. I will carry on tomorrow.
> I also took the time to reorganise the lighting in the workshop. I moved some of the lights so that I wasn't casting a shadow over my work space and then added some more lights above the vice and the welding corner. Fortunately I did the wiring originally and so left a lot of slack in the cable for future changes.
> 
> My Mother also popped in for a look and all she had to say was 'Those are big wheels! How are you going to get it out of the basement?'


Moms are great, so sorry mine has passed on, she had 85 good years though.

I'm glad you are getting your basment shop worked up and organized. Once the tractor thingy is done you will have a lot to do to get the MR2 done. You will probably spend a lot of time commuting back and forth.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I finished intalling the extraction, Jim.

It's not pretty but it is functional.
















The fan casing is fitted to a snub bit of wall built when the room was going to be divided. I then built an awkward wooden box duct in the space behind it to an airbrick. It took a fair amount of building foam to seal it up and I think it is still leaking into the wall cavity.
However, most of the fumes are drawn outside. I will build an extension to the fan case to allow a 4" pipe to be directed to the weld area. That will pull the fumes more effectively.

To test it I welded the front cross member to the tractor chassis rails.









It pulled a bit and I now have a 2mm twist at the front end. I will try and straighten it before I do anymore to it. OK, I know it is only 2mm but it is bugging me.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Good show on the vent system. Anything to change the air down there. 

An olde, but still true. An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. Take a few days to get rid of that chest problem. Pneumonia or Bronkitus (sorry about the spelling) are not fun.

Boy, don't you just hate it when you get a pull or twist like that. When welding without a flat steel surface to clamp to you sure can get some interesting shapes.

Heat and Beat to suit they say

I've had a bit of luck by taking a sawsall and cutting partway through the part then twist and bend the slots closed and welding them up. Grind it flat and it will look pretty good.

Otherwise you can use up a lot of welding gas in an oxy/acetelene set trying to pull the metal. If you're doing it all the time it's easy. Since we are not WOOPS

Otherwise it's looking good.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Jim.

I don't have any heat to apply to the rails so it may well be a brute force fix.

I might try bending it a little and then adding another crossmember. If that doesn't work I will cut through the welds and bend it.

I have just posed a question about batteries and the controller in the Batteries forum. Best be sure of what I am doing before I triple the spend on the tractor so far.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The chassis twist has been reduced. Leaning on it a lot while it was locked in the bench vice helped.  Less then 1mm along 1200mm.

I have now welded on the vertical lengths of angle to pick up the transaxle top mounts. It is now assembled with cardboard spacers between the chassis rails and the transaxle. This will allow a bit of clearence when I weld in a rear crossmember.

The motor and seat is back on again while I work out where the cross member needs to go. Options are to put one just forward of the centreline of the rails where the tail end of the battery pack would be. I could figure the steering box location and put one there, or I could put one just ahead of the transaxle.
They could all go in but it would be overkill and hard work.

I also managed to centre the driven sprocket and the chain now runs smoothly and without too much whip or noise. I may be able to get away with just sliding to motor to tension it without an added tensioner. We'll see.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Another idea. Timing chain tensioner!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Another idea. Timing chain tensioner!


That's what I thought you meant the first time when you said timing belt tensioner. I've been looking at Land Rover ones. Cheap and small when the mounting plate is cut down a bit.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

How does that work ? Is it meant to be in oil as a friction type tensioner?

I was thinking it should look like this :

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/6318.cfm?gpf

On a shaft and spring held turning with chain...

Perhaps on both sides (forward - reverse)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> How does that work ? Is it meant to be in oil as a friction type tensioner?
> 
> I was thinking it should look like this :
> 
> ...


Yes, it is supposed to be in oil and it is a friction tensioner. With the small amount of chain slap I have now I figured that it would just make enough contact to manage it.
The sprocket on a bearing is better but I would need a little more space for one, or two even, then I have unless they come in something like 12 tooth size. It may mean making one on a bronze bush.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was faffing around today uncetain of what to work on so I built the front axle.

I was going to use a length of 40x60mm box that I have already cut to length but the 60mm was too close to the height of the kingpin bearing to work well.
I decided to change it for a length of 50x50x4mm box instead.

Having marked out the centre line I marked the distance for the top and the bottom of the kingpins from the centre line. That gave me the kingpin inclination.
I then measured and marked the castor angle.
I then pilot drilled and hole sawed the top and bottom of the box to take the kingpin bearing sleeve.
The ends of the box were then cut off through the centre line of the holes.
The sleeves where then welded in place.

















I drilled and tapped for a greese nipple on both sleeves.









The left hand kingpin has a hole in it which I assume was for fitting a steering arm but I wasn't sure how best to use it. The hole was just shy of 8mm so I drilled it out to clearence size.









Looking around my scrap metal pile I found the lift arm from an old side jack for a car. It was round to square but in the square end there was a 3/4" bore which just happened to fit the kingpin snugly.
I decided to cross drill it to line up with the kingpin hole. 
I made one side 8mm and the other side was tapped to M8.

















I measured and cut the piece to create a level top surface. This required the use of a spirit level to mark around the square for cutting.









To bolt it there is not quite enough clearence for a bolt head so I cut the coach bolt down to length and put a slot in one end. The thread is long enough for a lock nut on the other side which has a little more space.








I will replace it with an M8 12.6 cap screw when I can find one.

I then used some 25x5mm flat bar to make the steering arm. It was cut to length, trimmed to shape and welded on.


















I have some M10 ball joints which I will use to setup the steering links. I think they are a bit small but the exisitng holes and the hole I put in the new arm are 10mm.
If I can find some M12 ball joints then I would prefer them for size.

In welding all this up I found that the leaks from my make shift rough ducting were increasing and blowing back into the workshop.
I decided that this evening I should rip it apart and reseal it all from the inside. A can of foam later and I think it is sealed. I will leave it to cure before I test it though, I think that is one of the things that went wrong last time.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Nice! 

Makes me want to hop up my ride-on at the farm!! It is boring cutting around the old apple trees and house and down the 1000 foot drive. To small to get my brush hog on the tractor around - too big for the ride-on LOL..


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Dave, nice it may be but that front axle made me jump a few times when it over balanced, swung round and then rolled off the bench. 

The sooner I get the centre pivot on the better.

You, at least have a farm to justify a tractor of any size, my back garden is tiny and full of bonsai and my front, well it is a large drive way, large for the UK, tiny for the US. I don't even have lawn!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Beeeee u ti ful job on that front end.

You pretty much managed to recreate the original front end components design exactly.

The method that you used to build the new axle beam is exactly the one I now use for the pulling tractors

You are really building a family hand me down that should last a long time. Going to be one Boss Rig when it's done.

Welds are looking a lot better


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thank you Jim.

I figured the welds needed to be better here as there would be a lot of weight and dynamic loading on the axle so the use of clean steel and selecting the cleanest rods helped. Also I could really 'add more weld' to improve things here without it looking ugly and interfering with the steering.

I guess not welding in a smog and under better lighting makes a difference too.

I only wish I had family to hand it down to one day.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I to spend some money today.

I bought some M10 studding and some 12mm bore tube. It hardly broke the bank but it was the principle. 
I decided to make up the track rod and, figuring that M10 studding would be a bit weak, I applied a bit of engineering. I placed the studding in a tube and pretensioned it. It is now considerably more rigid then the studding and tube would have been on their own.


















The tube being 12mm bore will allow me to upgrade to M12 ball joints when I can get some cheaply. I already have some M12 studding to hand.
I am hoping to use the same set up between the steering arm and the steering box.

While I was thinking about the axle centre pivot I dug out these bearings. I forgot I had them from my Land Rover days about 20 years ago!









I could use this 2" bore one for the pivot even though it is huge!

















I will probably get a smaller one from Ebay, 20 or 25mm should be fine I think and not too costly.

I will be going to London this weekend and I will get some batteries and a 10" motor for the MR2 from Simon Rafferty. Cheers Simon.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I to spend some money today.
> 
> I bought some M10 studding and some 12mm bore tube. It hardly broke the band but it was the principle.
> I decided to make up the track rod and, figuring that M10 studding would be a bit weak, I applied a bit of engineering. I placed the studding in a tube and pretensioned it. It is now considerably more rigid then the studding an tube would have been on their own.
> ...


Woody,

What you have made here is probably twice as strong as what most garden tractors come with. As long as the tubing is thick wall enough not to buckle if you jam a tire What you have is good.



Woodsmith said:


> While I was thinking about the axle centre pivot I dug out these bearings. I forgot I had them from my Land Rover days about 20 years ago!
> 
> I could use this 2" bore one for the pivot even though it is huge!
> 
> ...


Don't forget those are self aligning bearings with a spherical outer race. Using this kind of set up would alow your front end to wander all over the place. You would have to build some form of radius rod set up. Too complex and subject to damage.

Much simpler would be a simple pin and bushing. Bore your front cross member front and back, weld in a pin that protrudes forward. Turn out a Bushing and Pivot similar to your king pin bushings that would weld to the top of the axle. One advantage to this is the ease of squareing up the front axle to the rear axle by nudging things into place befor welding. Plus a bushing is much stronger in this type of application.




Woodsmith said:


> I will be going to London this weekend and I will get some batteries and a 10" motor for the MR2 from Simon Rafferty. Cheers Simon.


Going to get thiose marathon batteries? Question, If so, Does Simon have anything to test those batteries so you can get something done within the seven days warrenty?

Just noticed that one of those three pillow blocks in the picture is split, Maybe a bushing or bearing clamped into that and then weld the housing to the axle (after suitable alignment) might be a good way to go.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was banking on the self alignment of the bearing to help in setting up. I was going to have radius arms, maybe with M12 or M16 threaded ends for adjustment. I always figured on the radius arms being a must anyway as I wanted positive alignment rather then the axle rubbing on the chassis to keep it square. That would just leave a greasy patch on the crossmember that dirt would stick to.

I had the same set up on my 6x6 Land Rover but with a transverse leaf spring as well. I will need to decide where the steering box is going though as the radius arms would need to pivot from the same point on the chassis.

I was going to leave the Marathon batteries for later on when money is better, March is a costly month. Simon has some Optima batteries that he has been getting from a local scrap yard. He has taken the ones that he tested as good but I don't have a battery tester, only a volt meter, so I will borrow/buy a set from him to set up for testing later.
When I get the Marathons I will return the Optimas to Simon for his next project.

I was thinking that with the four Marathons I could set up some switches to change the wiring of the batteries to get 48v and 12/24v connection. That would make charging in parallel easier without having to get a 48v charger, or four 12v ones, and I could run a 12/24v inverter to get 240vac.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

I'll take a picture of a complete Cub Cadet front suspension that shows the steering, axle, pivot and pin in the console that welds to the frame (it was cut off the stock frame for a custom installation). Look it over you might find you are overdoing the axle mount. I may have to PM you to get them picture past this windows 7 problem. I do have the new XP system up I just havent had time to sit down and redo everything.


Of course you are the man on site so you have to do what you think is right for your build. Experiance shows that whatever you choose to do it will work fine.

Optimas are a pretty good battery in their own right. Even sickly ones should do you well.

Yep fiddling with voltage and inverters should be first on your agenda. Having a suitable mobile power supply for electric tools will be handy. Plus as I mentioned it makes a nice back up UPS for for the home frige if there is a power failure.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> I'll take a picture of a complete Cub Cadet front suspension that shows the steering, axle, pivot and pin in the console that welds to the frame (it was cut off the stock frame for a custom installation). Look it over you might find you are overdoing the axle mount.


I probably am over doing things a bit but for lack of finite element analysis to pare things down to their minimum I am going for belt and braces approach and a bit of gut feeling along with a dollop of aesthetics. 
Also I am weighing up buying some small and cheap off the shelf components to save a lot of hacksawing and awkward turning with the limited tooling I have. 
I must figure a four jaw chuck and a new set of hole saws into my purchases at some point.

I have a nice phosper bronze bush I pulled from a sewing machine pulley but the OD and ID are just awkward sizes that don't quite fit any of the bits of tube and bar I have for turning.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Dude, I keep forgetting to say something because I am enjoying the show so much!  This project is just freakin awesome!!! You're making it really, really, hard to keep my focus on the Inhaler. I have had some other ideas in mind I want to try since I started it. Easier, more fun, stuff, like your tractor project.

Popcorn in one hand, Pepsi in the other, waiting for more...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Dude, I keep forgetting to say something because I am enjoying the show so much!  This project is just freakin awesome!!! You're making it really, really, hard to keep my focus on the Inhaler. I have had some other ideas in mind I want to try since I started it. Easier, more fun, stuff, like your tractor project.
> 
> Popcorn in one hand, Pepsi in the other, waiting for more...


Cheers Todd.

I've just been to the scrap metal yard and found some 1" thick wall square tube to make the radius arms with. While I was there I also found something that may form the basis of another project.

It's a complete shaft drive back wheel off a motorbike, only a few quid so I had it. I went to a local bike shop to get help identifying it and it seems to be a Yamaha Virago, large engine model due to the big fat tyre that is on it. The tyre, brake shoes and bearings are all in good servicable condition and the drive gears seem to move smoothly.

I just need the reverse trike project to use it on.


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

One quick observation; If you keep finding stuff for the 'next project', you're going to have to get a bigger basement,,,,,, or is that one of the next projects?
Recently, I decided that retirement was in my near future, so I bought a 3 acre parcel and proceeded to build a 40' x 60' garage, for my projects. After getting all my stuff home, from the places I had it stored,,,,,, not much room for projects,,,,,, never ending cycle


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Been there... I had a newly-built shop, attached to my house, and at least nine active projects; plus enough parts to start a few more. I sold everything and moved to an apartment in the city! I have two garage spaces, one for my driver, and one for the street rod. I promised myself I won't ever stick that many of my own irons in the fire again. I want a motorcyle but it either has to be road worthy as-is (until it's "time" comes), or purchased _after_ the Inhaler is a complete running vehicle (if it's a project bike).

So far, it's working very well because the Inhaler would still be a pile of parts and materials if I had purchased something else. Sorry for the detour Woody - on with the show!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

LOL, yes, I have a big house but not that big. It is already mostly filled with my Father's stuff from when he retired and moved into the granny flat!

I am tempted to put the wheel on Ebay as an earner, even if I sold the tyre I would see a healthy profit on it. The final drive may come in useful for a steering box on the tractor if the Land Rover one is no good.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, I have picked up a 10" motor and four batteries from Simon Rafferty, thanks Simon.









The label on the motor seems to be lacking just the information that would be useful.









If anyone can shed any light that would be useful.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Woodsmith, have you tried their site?

http://www.jungheinrich.de/en/no_cache/com/index-de/services/order-product-information.html

And ask info for motor type F12-13


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jan said:


> Woodsmith, have you tried their site?
> 
> http://www.jungheinrich.de/en/no_cache/com/index-de/services/order-product-information.html
> 
> And ask info for motor type F12-13


Thank you for the link. I have just requested information from them.


I am now back from a woodworking competition and trade show in London and my students worked very well. Hopefully this week I can get the motor and batteries in the workshop and do something with them.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

What kind of shaft is on that motor?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> What kind of shaft is on that motor?


I'm not sure yet, it is still buried in the boot of my car until tomorrow. It has a helical cut gear on it at the moment so I assume that there will be a keyed shaft rather then splined.

Edit to add: I had a quick look this morning while some students were helping to unload my car. The gear looks like it is on a splined shaft. That means I can use the gear as part of the coupler. Maybe drill it and mount the flywheel on it to keep the clutch.


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> The gear looks like it is on a splined shaft. That means I can use the gear as part of the coupler. Maybe drill it and mount the flywheel on it to keep the clutch.


My guess is that the gear will be too hard to drill,,, you might think along the lines of grinding it true and then silver soldering it to your mount. I pressed a length of brass through the splines then chucked the brass to keep it concentric. 'Even tried using a ceramic tool with less than stellar success,,,,, the grinder attached to the steady rest proved to be the correct tool


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

you could weld it with a 29/9 rod. I have a few if you need em.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

grayballs said:


> My guess is that the gear will be too hard to drill,,, you might think along the lines of grinding it true and then silver soldering it to your mount. I pressed a length of brass through the splines then chucked the brass to keep it concentric. 'Even tried using a ceramic tool with less than stellar success,,,,, the grinder attached to the steady rest proved to be the correct tool


If it truly is hard all the way through, think about taking it to a heat treat shop and see if it can be anneald (spelling?). 

I've also found that spline and gear speciality shops aren't as expensive as I thought (At least in our economy right now)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> If it truly is hard all the way through, think about taking it to a heat treat shop and see if it can be anneald (spelling?).
> 
> I've also found that spline and gear speciality shops aren't as expensive as I thought (At least in our economy right now)


That would be more what I had in mind for it. It would also give a better shop a job they could do with more accuracy then I could.

I am going to carry on this on the MR2 thread with some motor photos until such time that this motor ends up on the tractor!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was just bidding on a 48v charger on Ebay and replying to the motor thread and missed the end of the auction! £62 it went for! I could have had that. Oh well.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Not done much recently, been very tired and still getting over a chest infection and college inspection.

Today I got to the scrap yard again. The chap there can't understand why I am still buying bits of metal when the prices are so high. It is still cheaper then buying new.

Anyway, I came back with a bit of 2" bar to use as the front axle pivot pin.








I will need to summon up a bit if determination before I get the hacksaw out on it. It will take a while before I get through it.
I will them hole saw in a bit of 10mm plate and weld it on before welding the assembly onto the front cross member of the tractor. The bearing block can then be bolted to the axle. I am still undecided on either rubbing blocks or radius arms to control the movement of the axle.
There was also a set of one piece twin taper roller bearings that may also be usable if I decide to set the axle on just a pin and rubbing on the chassis.

I also found in the scrap pile a throttle body.








Not sure what it was from but I am hoping it will give me a TPS to use as a thottle pot.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was intending to spend the day wood turning but the live centre on the tailstock broke.
It relied on a single ball race to support all the turning loads and the balls just popped out.









So I rebuilt it around the taper and fitted twin bearings. I had to make a new rotor for it to fit the twin bearings. The bearings turned out to be the same size as used on skate board wheels. Dirt cheap for a set of 8.









So, I never really got back to my wood turning as it got late and the lathe is noisy enough to disturb the neighbours so I got on with the tractor.

I decided to make the front axle pivot.
Given all the options I decided to use the taper roller bearings. They just happen to be the right size to fit in some gas pipe and I happen to have a bit of round bar that almost fitted the bore.

To make the mount I used some 50x50x3mm box section. I wanted to hole saw though it but I didn't have a saw the right size that still had teeth. So hacksawed the straight cuts and then chain drilled the curved parts.









I filed the lumps and bumps off it to fit the gas pipe which was turned true on the lathe.









I turned the pivot pin to diameter while the welding cooled down.
Here are the components. The two bearing are front wheel bearings but I don't know what from. They were at the scrap metal yard with loads of others so I took the best ones.









This is the assembly.









The bearing will be bolted to the axle while the pin will be welded to the cross member.
I set the height of the pin so that the centre line is aligned with the bottom surface of the cross member. That way I can cut a semi circular slot in the cross member and weld the pin both ends and along its length.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Today I added a cross member to the chassi rails to help keep the twist out of it. I had to brace it before I could weld to prevent any more movement. It came out ok but really heavy. The cross member should line up to support the back end of the battery pack.









I also finished the front axle pivot while the chassis was upturned. I cut a slot into the front cross member and set the pin into it for half its diameter. I then welded in the pivot pin having checked to make sure it was on the centre line.
I also finished the bearing mount by welding in two bits of angle iron to fill in the open ends of the box and to provide a thicker base to bolt through. I then drilled and bolted it to the axle. It is only held in by some studding for now as I need to buy a couple of 100mm M12 bolts.
I should ahve welded in some crush tubes when I was building up the axle but I didn't. I will probably drill out the holes and feed some tube through for welding and then make a 6mm spreader plate underneath.









Jim has mentioned to me a few times, quite correctly, that I should sort out my air quality and fume extraction. Having put the fan in I decided to add some ducting today. It is some used 63mm bore dust extraction duct from my workshop after I upgraded to 100mm ducts. It has blast gates to control the suction to select for welding fumes and lathe turning fumes from the cutting fluid.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Today I added a cross member to the chassi rails to help keep the twist out of it. I had to brace it before I could weld to prevent any more movement. It came out ok but really heavy. The cross member should line up to support the back end of the battery pack.


I assume there will be substantial diagonal bacing between the upper transmission mounts and the lower frame somewhere forward of this crossmember. Don't mean to be picky or belabor the obvious, but I would rather be hated for pointing out something someone forgot, then accepted as one of the guys and ignoring a FUBAR.

I wanted to ask, are you placing all of the batteries forward of the rear axle or spliting the pack?

Have you decided if you will add a hood and grill or just leave the front end bare? 



Woodsmith said:


> I also finished the front axle pivot while the chassis was upturned. I cut a slot into the front cross member and set the pin into it for half its diameter. I then welded in the pivot pin having checked to make sure it was on the centre line.
> I also finished the bearing mount by welding in two bits of angle iron to fill in the open ends of the box and to provide a thicker base to bolt through. I then drilled and bolted it to the axle. It is only held in by some studding for now as I need to buy a couple of 100mm M12 bolts.
> I should ahve welded in some crush tubes when I was building up the axle but I didn't. I will probably drill out the holes and feed some tube through for welding and then make a 6mm spreader plate underneath.


Woody, you have just got to stop making such nicely done stuff with a few hand tools and a lathe. I feel so bad when I look at some of the ugly crap (good, strong, well done crap, but still ugly) I have done. It is just amazing what you accomplish. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I agree that you will want to reinforce the attach points of the pivot bearing assembly to the axle tube. The first time you ram a front tire into an obstruction (it will happen) you will see why. For myself I would align the axle to the rear end and then weld the pivot to the axle tube. I think that welding would be less likely to move or fail.



Four things to mention. 

The pivot pin needs to be shortened or a spacer places behind the bearing inner race to a point where, when you put in the retainer bolt and washer, there is some preload on the inner race of those bearings. That type of split inner race bearing needs a bit of pressure through the inner race stack. On a car, those bearings get a couple of hundred foot pounds of torque on the axle nut.
You need to put suspension travel stops on the frame to prevent the suspension from turning too far and winding up your steering linkage. I would limit the total movement to between 4 and 6 inches. Think about the deepest furrow you might run one front wheel into while the rear wheels stay on a flat surface.
When you put in the stops, reinforce the contact point on the axle tube. You will be suprised at how much force is applied to that point.
Thinki about adding steering stops to limit turning angle.



Woodsmith said:


> Jim has mentioned to me a few times, quite correctly, that I should sort out my air quality and fume extraction. Having put the fan in I decided to add some ducting today. It is some used 63mm bore dust extraction duct from my workshop after I upgraded to 100mm ducts. It has blast gates to control the suction to select for welding fumes and lathe turning fumes from the cutting fluid.


Believe me, later on in life, every time you take an unrestricted breath while walking up a flight of stairs (or hack saw through a piece of 2 inch bar stock) you will thank yourself for doing it.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> I assume there will be substantial diagonal bacing between the upper transmission mounts and the lower frame somewhere forward of this crossmember. Don't mean to be picky or belabor the obvious, but I would rather be hated for pointing out something someone forgot, then accepted as one of the guys and ignoring a FUBAR.
> 
> I wanted to ask, are you placing all of the batteries forward of the rear axle or spliting the pack?
> 
> Have you decided if you will add a hood and grill or just leave the front end bare?


There will be further bracing, that will come when the motor is mounted. I want to make sure I can remove the motor easily if I want to. It will probably form the basis of a 'transmission tunnel' that will box in the controller.

All the batteries will go at the front I think, in one big pack. I will then build a hood and 'grille' to make it look nice when it all works. Also I will need to be able to kep the weather off the electrical bits.




Jimdear2 said:


> Woody, you have just got to stop making such nicely done stuff with a few hand tools and a lathe. I feel so bad when I look at some of the ugly crap (good, strong, well done crap, but still ugly) I have done. It is just amazing what you accomplish. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who feels this way.


Unfortunately, to me it is ugly and rough and along the lines of a 'rat mobile'.



Jimdear2 said:


> I agree that you will want to reinforce the attach points of the pivot bearing assembly to the axle tube. The first time you ram a front tire into an obstruction (it will happen) you will see why. For myself I would align the axle to the rear end and then weld the pivot to the axle tube. I think that welding would be less likely to move or fail.


Having set it up I will make a rigid A frame to a bearing towards the back of the chassis. That will control the movement of the axle allowing the whole assembly to pivot on a single axis and absorb any knocks and bumps.




Jimdear2 said:


> Four things to mention.
> 
> The pivot pin needs to be shortened or a spacer places behind the bearing inner race to a point where, when you put in the retainer bolt and washer, there is some preload on the inner race of those bearings. That type of split inner race bearing needs a bit of pressure through the inner race stack. On a car, those bearings get a couple of hundred foot pounds of torque on the axle nut.
> You need to put suspension travel stops on the frame to prevent the suspension from turning too far and winding up your steering linkage. I would limit the total movement to between 4 and 6 inches. Think about the deepest furrow you might run one front wheel into while the rear wheels stay on a flat surface.
> ...



I left the pivot pin long to add a plate behind it to support the axle. The bearing is against a small shouder spacing it away from the weld. The plate will fill the gap but I need to get a hole saw to fit first. As there are two sets of bearings I will also put a small spacer between the bearing inner races so that the compression of the bearings acts on all the inner races. Having drilled the M12 threaded hole I am wondering if I should have gone up to M16 for the bolt to hold it all on. Maybe I shall get an electric drill on it and open it up for the bigger bolt.
The suspension travel stops will, hopefully, be part of an assembly over the pivot that also supports the front end of the pivot pin so that it is not in single shear or bending. However, I don't have any furrows. On my 6x6 Land Rover I limited the front axle to +-18" each side, 3' in all. I won't be looking for that much.
Steering stops are just going to be fiddly I think. Currently the ball joint stops when it hits the axle beam. The steering arm is below the axle so I will have to make something up.
 


Jimdear2 said:


> Believe me, later on in life, every time you take an unrestricted breath while walking up a flight of stairs (or hack saw through a piece of 2 inch bar stock) you will thank yourself for doing it.


Yes, I will do. I am even thinking of adding another fan to get more air movement.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Managed to get a few hours back in the workshop today.

I wanted to play with motor positions and looked at putting the motor back behind the axle. It makes installation easier and shortens the chain. I thought about it to allow for batteries running the full length of the chassis rails low down.

Then I changed back to front mounting it again.

I wanted to keep the space behine the axle free for, umm, doing something else with. Maybe a small winch or other powered tooling.

So I made up the motor mount.



Just welding the plate onto the bottom of the motor drive plate showed up so many problems. Little bits of distortion added up making alignment difficult and causing the shaft to bind.

Nothing a big hammer and a vice couldn't resolve though.

Eventually the motor became a sliding fit and the shaft showed no 'stickiness'.
I will make up the sliding part of the mount to locate it on the chassis next and then it can be installed properly.

That is when I will be able to start temporarily connecting up the controller to see if it works properly.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I finally got back in the workshop to do a bit more with the tractor.

Having been chatting with Jimdear about front axle location I had a rethink.
I was originally going to use radius arms to locate the axle but with hind sight I think Jim is right about a simple means of location without radius arms. The front axle will be located in a channel that prevents it from yawing and pitching but allowing it to roll on the central pivot pin.

So having made that bearing mount I decide to make another one.

First off, I made a big hole in a bit of 4"x2" box. I bought a hole saw for it this time, however, the saw only came in 57mm or 64mm and I needed a 60mm hole. So what I did was to file one side to 60mm and leave the other side.
I cut a length of 60mm OD pipe and turned it true both ends. I then turned a 57mm shoulder on one end and inserted it in the box section. That made sure that the tube was flush and tight at one end and protruding at the other end.

















I then marked out and cut the top off the box section to create sloping surfaces and then bent and welded a length of 2"x1/4" flat bar.

















I then capped the open ends with some more flat bar.









When it had cooled down I ground and sanded the welds to make the box flat with no rough edges.

















I then welded it to the axle beam and ground off all the welds again. This is how it mounts now.

















There will be a 10mm plate fixed between the axle and the front cross member of the chassis. The axle will bear against the plate to control any unwanted movement.
The plate will continue over the top of the axle so that the sloping surfaces will have something to stop against when the wheels are at the limits of their vertical travel.
Then a third plate will bolt in front of the axle along the top edge and onto the axle pivot pin to trap the axle in place and prevent it from falling off the pin when I reverse.
That will make an upside down U shape over the axle that will be greased on the inside.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

How can one guy have so much fun without us??? ..
Still lurking on that build... We have had warm weather here (early) - so I get to work on all the chores!... BUT car is next!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> How can one guy have so much fun without us??? ..
> Still lurking on that build... We have had warm weather here (early) - so I get to work on all the chores!... BUT car is next!


We've had some snow again over here! Summer didn't last long. 

Talking of fun, I almost forgot to take photos.
I have modified a big old portable stereo cassette player to take the output from my phone so I now have loud music in the workshop!
It means that I am happily singing and dancing my way around the workshop as I work. I say 'singing' loosely as I also wear a big respirator to keep out the dust and muck. But with my phone plugged into the stereo I keep forgetting to take pictures.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Dave Koller said:


> How can one guy have so much fun...


Too much fun! I've been soooo tempted to start a motorcycle project I want to do since I started watching you build this tractor. I try to hurry up and decide what parts the Inhaler needs most and buy them before I spend the money on motorcycle parts!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Glad you got away from radius arms. It's personal, but I don't like them.

What you did do is wonderfully done and way over built just the way a tractor should be. It looks like you could carry the weight of the world on that front end.

A word of caution you may have already taken into consideration, make sure that the steering linkage clears the frame with the suspension tilted all the way and turned all the way in both directions. I would rough in the steering box, pitman arm and drag link before I finalized any more on the suspension and pivots.

Don't ask me how I know this is a good thing to do at this point of your build.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> A word of caution you may have already taken into consideration, make sure that the steering linkage clears the frame with the suspension tilted all the way and turned all the way in both directions. I would rough in the steering box, pitman arm and drag link before I finalized any more on the suspension and pivots.
> 
> Don't ask me how I know this is a good thing to do at this point of your build.
> 
> Jim


Ahhh, done that already with the last set up. 

I set the steering arm length to clear the wheel on full lock and the chassis on full tilt mocked up to roughly where the steering box will go.
The track rod is level with the bottom edge of the axle tube and clears to just over +- a foot of wheel travel at full lock either way. It is now limited to around about +-6" or so.

I am hoping that the wheel spindles will be up to task and as strong as the rest of the axle. There is likely to be 148kg of batteries right at the front end, plus the weight of the tractor. I was also thinking of things like snow plough weight, front loader bucket weight and even a crane jib over the front axle like the old steam traction engines.









Just found this image and thought it was cute.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Too much fun! I've been soooo tempted to start a motorcycle project I want to do since I started watching you build this tractor. I try to hurry up and decide what parts the Inhaler needs most and buy them before I spend the money on motorcycle parts!


You do realise that my MR2 may never get done expecially as I have a 2CV gearbox and also a shaft drive motor bike rear wheel as another possible project!

Of course, I still have the Land Rover axle and Lada Niva transfer box so an even bigger, stronger tractor is always possible.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> You do realise that my MR2 may never get done expecially as I have a 2CV gearbox and also a shaft drive motor bike rear wheel as another possible project!
> 
> Of course, I still have the Land Rover axle and Lada Niva transfer box so an even bigger, stronger tractor is always possible.


Uh huh, that's the kind of thought trains that bring me back to reality. I see parts that would work well for the motorcycle and start sketching... Eventually I start to realize how much money those sketches would take away from the Inhaler, and go buy some parts for it!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Right, having been distracted by some work shop reorganisation and a couple of dates (so far so good) I got a little bit of work done on the tractor again.

I decided to add some location for the motor so that I can run it at speed without having to wedge it in place.








I used a bit of angle welded to the chassis to hold the motor mount down. Then a couple of bolts threaded to the angle will allow adjustment of the motor side to side to ensure the chain is aligned. Another couple of bolts on the upright bit of chassis will allow tensioning of the chain by pushing the motor forwards.

I will do something similar on the other side to locate the com end of the motor.

Now I can aim to connect the Curtis and four Optima batteries to see what happens. I should be able to rig up a throttle pot to control the speed. I have the one from the MR2, another one I found in the scrap yard and a slider pot I found in my parts bin.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I figured that I had got to the stage where I no longer need the tractor on the bench and also need to be able to sit on it to work out the ergonomics of the seating and the steering.
I did a big tidy up of tools and equipment, removed a load of stuff that no longer needed to be there and cleaned up.
I then dismantled the tractor and took the makeshift bench apart. It was only a plywood board on a couple of old tables. I then re built the tractor on the ground.

Huh! Something wasn't right. I had a twist in the chassis before when I first welded it. With a lot of effort and an extra cross member I managed to get it square. However, it never really bolted back to the transaxle after that so I left it with a coule of bolts just for setting up.
Now on the floor I could see what was wrong. The bolt holes on the trans axle casting were not symetrical. The casting bolts together from two halves and there are a pair of holes on each half that the chassis bolted to. The holes on one side were 1/8" higher then on the other side.

That explains why the chassis was twisted when I first welded it up using the transaxle as a jig!

I filed the holes to ovals and eventually got it to fit and it all looks square now.








It looks really small now it is on the floor!

Re fitting the wheels was a chore. I hadn't thought much about it having, literally, the ground clearance of a big 4x4 on those tyres but trying to lift the transaxle to get the wheels on was a puzzle.
In the end I just flipped it on to its side and lowered the wheel on from above and then did the same the other side.

I couldn't resist putting the battery on it to see how it would go.









I should have figured a way to take some video of this first mile stone, the tractor moving under its own power but....

...I should rig up something better or safer first.

I put the battery on it and then crouched on the chassis in front of the battery and facing backwards. I then fitted some cables and decided to touch the cable on the 12v battery just to see if it would move.

Now I did have some doubts as to whether that little golf buggy motor would turn those big tyres but, nope, no problems there.

As soon as I touched the cable on the battery it shot forwards, nearly pitching me over the back!
Only my hand moving and breaking the connection stopped me falling into the spinning chain.
I reckon that had I not been sitting on the chassis it would probably have popped a small wheelie!

This is going to be fun!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

{{munching popcorn, sipping Pepsi}}


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> {{munching popcorn, sipping Pepsi}}


And now for the main feature of the evening....
Turning 4' of workshop space into 5' of runway!


It does pop a small wheelie but after half a dozen runs with an ordinary starter battery I thought I'd better get the video made.

It bashed the workbench so hard the seal popped off the front axle pivot bearing!

The heavy breathing is just me with a respirator on due to the dust in the workshop from cleaning up.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Looking good. I really like what I see.

The first time it moves on it's own is a wonderful moment isn't it. I'm glad for you.

If you can hit something hard enough to pop out a seal and not bend anything I would say your frame and front end are strong enough.

What's next. Steering? Seating? Chain Guard? Battery Boxes?

Hurry Up

Glad to see you went with a movable motor mount instead of a tensioner. I was going to suggest it, but I have made so many suggestions I didn't want to seem like a smart ass.

Take care
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Yeah, once I got the big sprocket centralised properly the chain whip disappeared and so I didn't see the need for a tensioner anymore. I can get the chain quite tight this way and that keeps it under control.

I am now working on the brake caliper mounts as they are awkward to do and so I don't want to leave them too long.

I have been balancing on a chair seat on it to work out the steering position. The Land Rover steering box will need cutting down a bit as the wheel is chin level! I will fix the seat height first though.
I still need to finish off the front axle mount so that the axle isn't just loose on the pivot and then I can start on the steering.

First off I want to rig up the controller to see if it all works on 48v. I have just bought sone battery post clamps and some crimp eye terminals from Ebay. I will just use domestic 6mm cable to wire up with using Simon's Optimas to begin with. I can make the terminal eyes by twisting the 7 strands for now. I have, probably, well over £1k of domestic cable in green and yellow earth colour so I might as well use some of it before committing the 35mm EV cable.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Another milestone!

Well, 3/4 of a mile stone really. 

I set up the tractor on stands and started wiring the controller. For lack of proper bits and pieces I cobbled together the short bits of battery cable I had and some odds and ends of welding cable to get the high current side connected.
I then bunched up all the controller connections that need to go live and then made up a pot. For the pot I found a stereo 10K linear slider and connected the two sides in parallel to give me 5K.

I then connected three of the four Optima batteries together using a set of jump leads (hence 3/4 of a mile stone!). I then decided I needed a kill switch, as I couldn't keep on with just touching a lead to a terminal, so I put a battery isolator in line.

When I powered up the Curtis flashed 2,3 warning a sequencing fault. this I took to mean that I hadn't connected the isolator, key switch, failsafe, seat switch and all the other live bits in the right order, they all just came on at once.
I tried sliding the pot and then suddenly got full throttle! Panic! Shut down! Check everything!

I had the slider upside down.

I slid it the other way and tried again. It works. I have speed control and frantic acceleration. I then realised I had the gear box in high gear. No wonder yesterday's run shot across the workshop so fast. Hmmm, wheelies in high gear!

After the throttle had been cycled the Curtis indicated correct operation with a single flash so all is well. That was a relief to find the controller that cost me all of about £65 was working fine.

Anyway, here's some video.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've made up the brake mountings now. They are just bits of angle extended with a bit of flat bar. I have welded them onto the mounting brackets a the back of the transaxle. It does mean that the whole bracket needs to be removed to change the pads but I doubt I will need to do that too frequently.

















I then decided to paint them.

















I think the tractor will be silver.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

This is where the tractor stands today.








Hey, I have a new avatar!

I have been playing with seat positions and I think if the front edge of the seat is lined up with the front of the motor then it is about right. That lets me set up the steering.

The Land Rover steering box needs to sit above the chassis to align with the front axle so I needed to shorten it a bit. I figured about 5 1/2" shorter would be fine. I have no photos so I will describe.

First I dismantled the column on the box. The actual shaft has a narrow section in the middle that looks like it is friction welded onto the top and bottom ends so that the box and wheel splines could be used with other applications. That made things easier. I cut the middle out of the shaft and cleaned up the ends.
I then found a bit of pipe and bored it out to fit and pressed it on the shaft. I then welded it together.

The mounting flange on the end of the column tube was unclamped and the tube cut down and refitted to the flange. The steering box was then reassembled.

I will need to machine the splines on the output shaft though. Try as I might I can't find a cheap drop arm for the box, or the nut to hold it on. I will make my own drop arm to fit and re thread the shaft.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Woody,

I sure hope that seat is substantial. If not and without a chainguard, with you sitting there when that chain lets go.......you might be saying ta-ta to your goolies.

Eric




Woodsmith said:


> I have been playing with seat positions and I think if the front edge of the seat is lined up with the front of the motor then it is about right.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody, 

Looking Good.

Not too long till the first trip around the yard. 

Can't wait till video is released.

I guess I just can't close a post without a suggestion. 

Are you going to make wood or metal Grill, Fenders and Hood. Wood would be fantastic and a couple of pictures would sure go a long way to showcase all of your skills.

Jim


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Wood would be fantastic and a couple of pictures would sure go a long way to showcase all of your skills.
> 
> Jim


I second that Jim!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

esoneson said:


> Woody,
> 
> I sure hope that seat is substantial. If not and without a chainguard, with you sitting there when that chain lets go.......you might be saying ta-ta to your goolies.
> 
> Eric


The seat is only something to set position with. I have no intention of using an old plastic school chair.
I will have a very substantial chain guard even before I get beyond 1/2 throttle at 36v. I have no faith in the chain holding up until it has survived being thrashed hauling logs at full throttle.

Notice on my last video I was on the other side of the tractor to usual as I was hiding in case the chain gave up. I didn't want to be on the same side as it if it went flying.



Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Looking Good.
> 
> ...


Round the yard? My yard is way too small to get round even on roller skates! I don't have room for a tractor, even a wheel barrow is a bit more then needed sometimes. However, when has that been an excuse not to have a tractor?
I will play on the road outside, given it is unadopted, and over at my friend's house, he has a much bigger yard.

I want to make up the battery box and the chain guard in steel and then I really want to use wood for the body work and seat.
I am undecided as to real wood, cherry, walnut, oak, or to use birch ply stacked and carved. Maybe both. I will have to empty my box trailer and park it in there to reduce the theft risk and to keep it dry.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Now a few months ago I found, in the scrap metal yard, a dozen of these things:









They are 6mm thick steel plate rings with machined beveled edges.

I cut one in half.









And then started cold bending a bit of 50x6mm flat bar.









It almost fits.









There we go.









Add the other half ring.









And weld up.









Add a bit more flat bar.









And some more flat bar.









{Rolf Harris}Can you see what it is yet?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It is for all those who are worried about my butt! 


































I think 6mm steel plate should contain the chain.

I still need to add some more flat bar to the outer side of the chain guard to finish off but I ran out.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I found a bit more steel, a bracket from an old gym work out dooberry thingie I found at the scrap yard, so I finished off the chain guard.

A bit of paint make so much difference.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The post today brought some battery clamps and a pile of crimp connectors, 8mm and 10mm for 35sqmm cable. I have 11m of 35sqmm welding cable to use.
I have also bought a terminal crimp tool so that I should be able to start making up cables.

First though I need to decide on where the controller needs to live.
Any thoughts on 'best' positioning of a Curtis 1214 controller? Flat on its base, vertical upright terminals top or bottom, vertical sideways, nearer the motor, nearer the batteries? Should I put it in a box with a fan, leave it exposed with just the terminals covered?

I may be limited to where ever I can fit it but I would like to put some thought into this.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> The post today brought some battery clamps and a pile of crimp connectors, 8mm and 10mm for 35sqmm cable. I have 11m of 35sqmm welding cable to use.
> I have also bought a terminal crimp tool so that I should be able to start making up cables.


Woody, 

Lucky you!

I have been trying to find that exact crimping tool on this side of the pond for quite a while. I can find the Harbor Freight one with the TOO SMALL dies. I bought one of those, found the dies smaller then marked then went looking for a bigger one like the one you bought , No Luck. 

Even the equivalent set to mine that the UK sellers sell, have bigger dies. (Grumble Bitch Swear) I started a thread on the problem and it is still running, the only fix we have so far is grind out one of the smaller dies.

I can find the name brand (Greenlee and such) ones for $300.00 plus but I can't find the China built ones like the one you bought over here. I checked on buying one from UK eBay but freight and duty were killers.



Woodsmith said:


> First though I need to decide on where the controller needs to live.
> Any thoughts on 'best' positioning of a Curtis 1214 controller? Flat on its base, vertical upright terminals top or bottom, vertical sideways, nearer the motor, nearer the batteries? Should I put it in a box with a fan, leave it exposed with just the terminals covered?
> 
> I may be limited to where ever I can fit it but I would like to put some thought into this.


About the position of the controller and electronics. 

I would build a open sided (for venting any gasses) box over the batteries where you have them located now, then place the controller and components on top of the box and build your hood over that. The box could also be dash and steering column support. If you look at pictures of my cub you will see where these suggestions come from.

Keep on building,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Lucky you!
> 
> ...


I wonder if I could send one to you, on loan so to speak, so you wouldn't need to pay duty and tax on it? Hmmm....



Jimdear2 said:


> About the position of the controller and electronics.
> 
> I would build a open sided (for venting any gasses) box over the batteries where you have them located now, then place the controller and components on top of the box and build your hood over that. The box could also be dash and steering column support. If you look at pictures of my cub you will see where these suggestions come from.
> 
> ...


Cheers Jim.

The battery arrangement in the last photo are too wide and would foul the steering so I am going to put three in line, sideways on, and then the forth on top lengthways at the front so it is narrower. That would leave me a battery sized space just ahead of the steering column. I guess the controller can go there along with all the switch gear and contactors.

I have spoken (texted) with Simon Rafferty and he is gifting me the batteries. I will return the favour in wood sometime. That will save me some £200+ in getting the Marathon Gel batteries and will allow me to get on with the build.

My next purchase will need to be a tachometer, with a shift light, so I can monitor the motor speed and cut off the controller if I over rev in low gear or lift/spin a wheel.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I got post!

This arrived today along with some crimp terminals and battery clamps.









I've yet to test it out but will report back on how well it makes 35sqmm crimps for the tractor. I also have a couple of 120sqmm crimps so I may make up one of them to see.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I thought about making cables but before I can do that I needed to mount the batteries and the controller. Before I can do that I needed to sort out the steering column.

With a lot of faffing about balanced on a loose plastic seat set on some bits of MDF packing whilst holding a steering wheel with on hand and a tape measure with thte other I decided on changing the battery pack around and tilting the column more.

I made up two bits of 40x40x5mm angle to mount on the steering box and then G cramped it in place to test out. Good thing I did, the steering wheel needed to be higher to allow me to be able to get onto the seat. After a lot of clambering on and off (and replacing the seat each time) I settled on a position.

















I welded it in place. My out of position welding needs more practice. Vertical up was a bit blobby. Anyway a coat of paint makes a good distraction.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

It is really starting to look like a tractor thingy now. That steering gear is going to work a treat.

I know I've brought this up before but could you look into moving two of those batteries to the rear of the tractor. I think you are going to have too much weight on the front and that will really affect tracton. I know rhe room at the rear is limited. Possibly you could incorperate the battery rack for two batteries as part of the seat structure or seat mount. Even put them into pods on top of the fenders (the top of the pods would then make nice armrests).

Have you had any luck with making the pitman arm? You said you were going to turn down the tapered splined portion of the steering box output shaft. I would think that the shaft would be hardened. A thought, something I was going to try once until I found the arm I needed. Drill and then machine a matching taper into a piece of aluminum, then using the retaining nut force the piece onto the shaft splines. 

Another idea would be to turn a matching taper into a piece of round stock cut a keyway into the shaft and round stock then center the steering box and linkage and weld an arm on the adapter piece.

I know you will come up with another better way but I have fun thinking about way to solve problems.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey Jim,

I will get the steering working and then see if the weight is too noticable through the steering. I am more concerned about the wide front tyres being hard to turn. I could put two batteries between the steering box and the motor to move some of the weight back a bit and there is always the platform just behind the transaxle as well.

I would like to keep the foot well area clear though as it make it a nice step through.

I decided to turn the splines off the shaft in the end, I just couldn't find a pitman arm. They were hard but I put the shaft on the lathe and used a grinder on it as it spun. It got the hardness off and I turned it down to 22mm.
The shaft was bent where the taper came out of the box. I had to cut off the end of the shaft and redrill the centre in the drill press so it would spin true.
I am going to turn a smooth taper on the shaft and then put a flat on one side. I can then make up a steel piece to fit and use the nut to press it onto the taper. The existing thread was damaged so I have ordered from Ebay a M16x1.5 die and holder to put a new thread on it. I chose that size as it is a fine thread and the same as a standard Land Rover wheel stud. I have plenty of wheel nuts to suit and it will be a useful size.

The annoying thing is that having done the turning I have now found a pitman arm on Ebay!

Oh well. My made up one will, at least, have a crank in it to clear the chassis and fit an M10 ball joint.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

If you can, plan on at least two of the batteries on the platform behind the seat. 

The following are some of those, "I'll say it just in case he hasen't thought of them" things I'm always doing.

That steering box should have no problem turning the steering. How many turns lock to lock? Most garden tractors seem to go with about 2 turns or less lock to lock. You might try limiting yours to that using the right length pitman arm and phisical stops. Three or four turns on something as light and short as a garden tractor would be a waste.

Do you need 12 volts to operate your contactors? If you do don't forget to leave room for a 12 volt battery.

Do you already have the motor reversing contactor set up? Are you using Albright contactors?

be well,
Jim


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## Tinodesis (May 4, 2008)

Hi Woody,

I like your project!

I have to smile when you make use of parts you find in the scrap yard. You're a true craftsman.

I have a bad habit of bringing things home that might work for something, some day.


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

Very Nice!! I wish I had your fabrication skills.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

zaxxon said:


> Very Nice!! I wish I had your fabrication skills.





Tinodesis said:


> Hi Woody,
> 
> I like your project!
> 
> ...


Thank you. I have spent most of my life making things and using scraps for the fun and challenge as much as for the money saving.



Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> If you can, plan on at least two of the batteries on the platform behind the seat.
> 
> ...


What I had in mind with the steering was to have a longer then standard pitman arm. The Land Rover box is about 4 turns lock to lock so if the pitman arm is long then I can achieve full steering with fewer turn. It will stop the steering being over geared. I can then add stops to the steering box mount to stop the pitman arm at set limits of travel each way.

I have got two Albright winch contactors and I was planning on using a small sealed LA 12v battery to run them and other 12v circuits.
I thought, with lighting, I could use 24v bulbs and use two batteries to run the lights on each side of the tractor. That will keep the loads balanced and can be switched through double pole switches or contactors.

I will play with the battery location and see what works as options. I was hoping to keep the rear platform free for a winch or a hydraulic pump maybe. No harm in exploring the options though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I resolved two items in one today.

I cut some 50x6mm angle to make a battery tray. OK, it is a bit heavy for a battery tray but the location of it also allowed me to use it as a 'bump stop' for the front axle.

























The angle at the front will allow me to bolt a 6 or 10mm plate onto that will drop down to the axle pivot and locate the axle from falling off the front of the pivot. It will also create an upside down channel that the axle will be trapped in to control any yaw movment.

The batteries will sit in this position leaving a space at the front.

















The front space will allow me to make some kind of interesting front grille and a place to mount lights and stuff. It is interesting that even though there is no need for a radiator I still want a front grille to make it look right!

The batteries are a loose fit and that will allow me to add some softer padding between the steel and the batteries.

While I was welding the frame to the chassis the welder cut out a couple of times due to over heating. I have a couple of nice fans on a panel so I used one to cool the welder.









I cut a hole in the back panel of the welder, panel beat the remaining louvers flat and bolted the fan in place and connected it to the main power switch. That will mean that it is always on and cooling the welder.
The fan pulls air through the welder and expels it out the back. It is a really strong fan too so I will need to be careful of it pulling debris through the welder.

I will use the other fan to do the same mod to my other welder.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Great work Wood!!!!
I am still lurking and watching - I had visions of that thing all laminated with wood when you are done including that seat ... Like a little roadster - what a parade showpiece - don't forget the hitch on the back to tow around all those trailers and wagons ... Yep it is looking good!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> don't forget the hitch on the back to tow around all those trailers and wagons ... Yep it is looking good!


I have a special tow hitch to go on the back.

I'll get photos of it.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had this made up 20 years ago.
It is an old military towing hook with a UK standard 50mm ball welded to it. It will still take a standard NATO 76.2x41.2mm towing eye and also a ball hitch.









A friend who was a coded welder working on pressure vessels 'borrowed' some high strength welding rods from work and welded it for me. It was tested to several tons on my old S3 Land Rover before I up graded to a bigger hook from one of these.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

LOL that will most certainly do  !


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> I know I've brought this up before but could you look into moving two of those batteries to the rear of the tractor. I think you are going to have too much weight on the front and that will really affect tracton.


One reason I have been worried about rear axle weight is this:









The original axle was very narrow and to make it useful I extended the original hubs outwards by bolting on the brake disc and the new hub. It moves the wheel centre a long way out from the axle bearing and relies on the short bit of keyed shaft onto the original hub to hold all that off set. The original hub was itself already off set an inch or so so I am looking at best part of a foot between the bearing and the tyre contact patch.

At the time I wasn't banking on it being as heavy or as big so I may have to either make up new drive half shafts that are longer and stronger with bearings further out or get a bigger transaxle.

I found this on Ebay. Wheelhorse 8 speed transaxle.
It is at the wrong end of the country to me though but I am thinking about it, just in case.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

That is a pretty significant distance out there from the bearing. What about outboard supports with crankshaft style plain bearings, since you enjoy slicing and stitching metal into new parts?

Is shipping expensive there? A lot of my parts have come from different parts of the country.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> That is a pretty significant distance out there from the bearing. What about outboard supports with crankshaft style plain bearings, since you enjoy slicing and stitching metal into new parts?
> 
> Is shipping expensive there? A lot of my parts have come from different parts of the country.


It sort of evolved this way as things grew.
There isn't space to add a plain bearing anywhere useful and the trans axle is cast iron so not easy to weld to. Also the axle end tube on the casting are rough and off centre to the drive shaft so I would need to be able to place the whole of the half casing in a lathe to turn the outside of the tube round and concentric.

An alternative would be to extend or make longer drive shafts and support them on a pillow block bearing on a sub frame. That would allow the brakes to be pushed further outboard and for the wheel rim to be turned the right way round again.

If I was to do that then I could use the 2CV transaxle with 4 speeds and reverse and built in inboard disc brakes.

I could get the Wheelhorse axle, whether I drive down to pick up or get a courier it is still even more cost and a redesign of the business end of the tractor. (I have asked the seller for a delivery cost.) However, that may just mean a Mk2 or Mk3 version.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Yep, just had a quick measure.

With these big tyres the wheel track is 30" centre to centre and there is 10" between the bearings in the transaxle so the off set is 10" each side.


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## Tinodesis (May 4, 2008)

Hi Woody,

That front end with built-in bump stops is nice. You're making great progress.

Does your KPI introduce some camber in the front wheels? It seems logical given the axle is solid.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Tinodesis said:


> Hi Woody,
> 
> That front end with built-in bump stops is nice. You're making great progress.
> 
> Does your KPI introduce some camber in the front wheels? It seems logical given the axle is solid.


The wheels are pretty much vertical with all the KPI in the axle set up. It made it easier to set up that way and it meant that I could run wide or narrow (relative to their diameter) tyres when I hadn't decided which I would have.

Positive camber, where the top of the wheel sticks out more then the bottom, is one way of getting the KPI to meet the contact point without it being at too great an angle. For slow speed this is a fine way of compromising.

Negative camber, where the bottom of the wheel sticks out more then the top, is better for high speed handling. To achive this on modern cars the wheels have a very deep dish so that the hub and kingpin can all be inside the wheel. This required bigger rims. You can see where modern car's wide alloy wheels have developed from compared to the old narrow steel rims of the 50's and 60's.

The rims on the tractor are too small for the kingpin to be inside it so the KPI is actually less then would be ideal with tyres that width. The intersection is about 1/4 of the way in from the inner edge of the contact patch. That leaves 3/4 of the contact patch to scrub when the wheel is steered. That makes the steering heavy.
A way to improve that would have been to add some negative camber so the tyre rolls round as if cone shaped.

I was limited to the kingpins/spindles that Jimdear2 was kind enough to send to me but were more intended for narrower or taller tyres.

There are whole text books just on this subject.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...An alternative would be to extend or make longer drive shafts and support them on a pillow block bearing on a sub frame. That would allow the brakes to be pushed further outboard and for the wheel rim to be turned the right way round again...


That sounds like a good plan. Now, hurry up and get this chassis sorted out so we can see some woodwork!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have steering!

This morning I got, in the post, a M16x1.5 die.
I got on with finishing the steering box spindle. I machined a short taper, 20mm to 21.5mm over 15mm. I then used the die to for the thread on the end of the spindle. That size of die gave me a big fine thread that allowed me to use a Land Rover wheel nut.

I then sawed two flats onto the taper to make it sort of oval shaped at 16mm across the flats.

















To make the pitman arm I cut a piece of 10mm flat bar and drilled a 16mm hole through it. I then touched it on each side with a 20mm drill to get a guide diameter.

Using a round file I carefully filed the hole to form the oval. Then I approximated the taper.
By forcing the plate onto the spindle with the wheel nut a little bit at a time I was able to improve the hole to a tight and snug fit.

I then welded a bit of bent 6mm flat bar to it to form the rest of the pitman arm.

















I then measured and cut the steering rod in the same way as the track rod, M10 studding pre-tensioned in a tube.

















So now I have steering. I can only turn right as a left turn pushes the front axle off the pivot pin. I still need to finish that bit.

The steering is very light, even with two batteries up front. 4 turns lock to lock in the box though I think with stops I will only be using about 3.5 turns.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

What is it you're planning to use this little earth mover, er uh I mean tractor, for? I've gotten so caught up in the special effects that I forgot what the plot is.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> What is it you're planning to use this litle earth mover, er uh I mean tractor, for?


Ummmm....errrr.....hmmmm.....climbing a steep learning curve?

The rear garden of my house is the size of a large living room and is stuffed with fruit trees, bonzai trees and veggies growing in pots.
The front drive can hold 7 cars if carefully parked if the piles of sandstone cobbles, concrete kerb stones and logs weren't there.
The road outside is quiet and unadopted and friends and neighbours have larger gardens but nothing that can't be mown with a push mower in about an hour.

So....errrr.....doesn't everyone _need_ a tractor?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

You couldn't have given a better answer!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, Jimdear sometimes mentions eventually seeing my tractor having a spin around the yard. The best I could do would be to try out the steering brakes and pirouette it around one wheel.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, I've done the bit that stops the front axle falling off.

The bearing is now retained by a cup made from a bit of thick walled tube welded to a disc of 10mm plate that was the waste from using a hole saw. I keep all of those bits in a pile as they com in useful!

I also cut a bit of 10mm plate to control axle yaw. The plate needed a near semicircle cutting from it to clear the pivot bearing. The back of the cut out was also chamfered all round to clear the weld on the axle bearing tube.

I clamped the plate in position on the chassis and drilled through at 12mm to take 4 M12 bolts.

















You can see there is a bit of OCD going on with the bolt heads.

Anyway, having bolted it all together and tested it I realised that I should have drilled the middle two bolt holes to suit standard tow ball hole centres. I could have used the spacing to mount a tow ball on the front end. 

Oh well. It at least it looks neat.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Wood:

You realize you can drive around your neighborhood pushing cars out of parking spots and trees over for hire with that "little" project!

I want to see videos (even if I have dialup) of you burning rubber on the street!

Looking great keep up the pics - I love it !


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Wood:
> 
> You realize you can drive around your neighborhood pushing cars out of parking spots and trees over for hire with that "little" project!


They don't call me Woodsmith for nothing!

I already pull trees.

























My trailer extends for the really long ones, up to 4.8m plus overhang!








That's one of the two trailers I've made.

The other one is an aluminium box made from contruction site signs and Land Rover roofs.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Newly painted parts are on.
Only painted in red oxide for now. I will paint the whole chassis when all the welding is done.









I loaded the batteries on board to see how the steering felt. It is still quite light and can be turned lock to lock with one finger in the steering wheel spokes.

One thing I noticed though, the steering arm on the axle moves. This results in half a turn of free play at the steering wheel.









The arm is fixed to the kingpin with a pin.









There is a little play in the whole assembly and no way of removing the play in its conventional set up.
The kingpin is parallel with a hole across its diameter and all the steering torque is transmitted through the pin.
I will need to find another way to assemble this joint so that the arm and the kingpin can be tightened up.
maybe I can weld up the hole and make some sort of tapered cotter pin set up like on an old bike pedal or maybe put a flat on the shaft and taper fit it like the pitman arm.

I shall sleep on it.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Having got the big 12" motor I just had to have a play.









Now, I just need to move the steering box over a little and then I can fit a propshaft to the transaxle.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Hmmm, I wonder if it could do a back flip if you put the 48 volts on a contactor and flipped the switch. Better get a helmet and a neck brace!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if it could do a back flip if you put the 48 volts on a contactor and flipped the switch. Better get a helmet and a neck brace!


Might need another chassis upgrade too.

This is getting in to Jimdear's territory for a puller.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Might need another chassis upgrade too.
> 
> This is getting in to Jimdear's territory for a puller.


Woody,

Now let's see, for a 12 inch motor . . .


Front end and steering are fine.
Need to add about 2 feet to the chassis length (7 feet from centerline of rear axle to the most forward pount of the tractor. Reinforce the frame for the torque and build a roll cage.
Need to design an adjustible hitch plate to compensate for changes in height do to tire pressure and weight changes 13 inch pull height.
Need some kind of transmission with a 2.5 to 1 or so low gear and reverse
Need a narrowed solid rear axle with a 5 or 6 to 1 ratio, open differential and what you call fiddle brakes.
Need a pair of 15 x 15.5 x 32 pulling tires or modified bar tires
Need a pair of 15 inch wide rims 15 inch diameter
Need at least 6 to 800 amps at around 144 to 220 volts in batteries
Need a controller, contactor, wiring contactor and whatever to support the chosen volt/amp choice.
All this can't exceed 1850 lbs with driver on board.
Lets see for about $1500.00 for rear wheels and tires $2000.00 for controller and contactors, figure about $3 to $5000.00 for high C discharge (15 to 20) lead acid or lithium batteries, another $5000.00 for all of the other stuff. 

Of course you could probably cut that way down with your skills. I know I have gotten good at scrounging and making do.

You would have a damn good puller when you were done.

Get going, Let's go pullin FUN FUN FUN

jIM

PS
You moght try shortening the length of the arm that the drag link from the steering box connects to. This should reduce the number of turns needed. Second point, where that steering arm connects to the king pin, they generally use a spiral spring pin instead of a bolt. That seems to tighten that up a bit.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I can but dream, Jim.

I think I am happy with the way the steering is at the moment. The small wheel allows easy 'palm of the hand' whizzing round of the wheel for quick lock to lock. I may change that once I have it rolling outside but it isn't a difficult mod to make later.

For the steering arm to the kingpin I was thinking of drilling from above half in the arm and half in the kingpin and tapping a thread for a set screw to act as a key.

Both projects are fun now that I have that motor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Now let's see, for a 12 inch motor . . .
> 
> ...


Piece a cake for Woody! 

One (aesthetic) tip: When you start the woodwork on your stretched, big tired, caged, pulling tractor you gotta leave that Art Deco motor visible. Make the comm end protrude through the grille (bend the wooden grille bars around it, closing the gaps down as they sweep and blending into the sides of the shell). Arch the sides over the motor, and make sure the DE is visible. When do we start?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Piece a cake for Woody!
> 
> One (aesthetic) tip: When you start the woodwork on your stretched, big tired, caged, pulling tractor you gotta leave that Art Deco motor visible. Make the comm end protrude through the grille (bend the wooden grille bars around it, closing the gaps down as they sweep and blending into the sides of the shell). Arch the sides over the motor, and make sure the DE is visible. When do we start?


I was thinking along these lines for the front end.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I was thinking along these lines for the front end.


That looks the business!  (Did I use it right?)


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Lordy isn't that car body beautiful. It's truly a shame that men who could produce something like that as a one off hand made are becoming rare.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Lordy isn't that car body beautiful. It's truly a shame that men who could produce something like that as a one off hand made are becoming rare.


There's a resurgence going on. Some of the stuff that's being created in hot rodding now is beyond description. There are more shops every year learning to to hammer and roll bodies from flat sheets of aluminum or steel. Even chassis are being crafted from steel sheet that look like stamped and/or hydroformed factory pieces.

I got a quote on having the Inhaler's body hammered out in aluminum, but A123's and custom-would coils seem to make more sense.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> That looks the business!  (Did I use it right?)


Yep, that's right. We should eventually find some commonality in our common language.

That is a lovely construction and a rare skill in today's world of makers.

I want to make that sort of front end in wood with a recessed 'grille' type insert with my logo on it. It would be a nice carving and shaping job.

I will need to finalise the battery trays and controller mount first so that I know what the internal structure is going to be like. Then I need to select my timbers.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I want to make that sort of front end in wood with a recessed 'grille' type insert with my logo on it. It would be a nice carving and shaping job.
> 
> I will need to finalise the battery trays and controller mount first so that I know what the internal structure is going to be like. Then I need to select my timbers.


I can't wait! Pepsi will be chilled and popcorn ready to pop, when that day comes!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I think I have found a set of headlights that may work well in the grille area of a Napier Railton type nose cone for the tractor.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150437519743&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Those are perfect.


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## Tinodesis (May 4, 2008)

I like them too, Woody.

I'm sure you could work them into tractor's front end. High tech meets old-school!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've bid on the lights, still a few days to go yet so we'll see how it goes.

I figured that if I have lights I really need to have the batteries and controller in place.

I decided on a staggered approach like this:








That gives me the space to slope the front end to get that nose cone shape I want.

I started with the 50x2mm angle to get the bottom pair in.









And then a removable tray for the top pair.








I am able to strap all the batteries down with one strap but I will get a proper 2" strap and ratchet to replace the weedy luggage strap.

I still need to make the controller mount. I'm not sure if I will mount it on the steering column or maybe between the chassis rails ahead of the motor.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I tackled one of those niggles today, in between playing with the MR2.

I had been wanting to sort out the play in the steering. The solution was to screw in a keyway. There was a hollow in the top of the steering arm that I had to plug tightly with a bit of turned bar. I then drilled though the arm to key the arm to the kingpin.
It was then tapped M8 and a bolt and lock nut inserted.








It is so nice to have positive and play free steering.

I also put the batteries on charge.
One was reading 13.65V while the other three were reading between 12.35V and 12.67V.

I then painted the battery trays with red oxide.

It is slowly coming together but I have still not decided where to mount the controller.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Battery trays fitted and a better ratchet strap found.









I started work on the seat mounting this evening. I wanted somthing that would allow me to move the seat back and forth to get a good position and also allow me to tilt the seat forward to access the transaxle and to allow a seat switch to be used.

I decided on reusing the original 40x40x4mm bright steel angle I had to set up the chassis with.
The seat base frame is bolt on and the raised flanges will allow me to build a seat onto it.

















It now painted and drying. When it is refitted I will then be able to sort out the seating position to begin making a seat. Then I will have the ergonomics sorted around the seat and steering wheel and can start on the foot pedal positions. That means brakes and throttle! Yay!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Figure out your controller location yet? Cut, sand, shape any wood yet?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Figure out your controller location yet? Cut, sand, shape any wood yet?


I am tempted to mount the controller with the fins vertical ish so it will probably be on the steering column. In the chassis seems like a good fit but I don't want it to get damaged if I drive through any mud or splash in big puddles. I thought about under the seat too but then I don't know what happens to these things if they fail. Just thinking of m38mike's Electro-Willys and his controller fire. I wouldn't want to scorch the wood work!

I will be shaping wood soon now that I have the seat frame, that will probably be the costliest part of the tractor. Still not decided on a timber yet. Cedar would be weather resistant and mellow to a nice grey tone but I am one of those few people who can't stand the smell of it.

I have a big bulk of Cherry I could use, that would make the tractor a reddish brown (rust?) colour. Ash would look nice and light but would rot within the year. Bright red Padduk would be very Massey Ferguson but well out of my price range for the quantity. Oak would not like being so close to steel and it would look orange. The list goes on, the price goes up. 

Plywood! Laminated birch ply would be affordable. That and some brush on wood grain from a tin....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I will be shaping wood soon now that I have the seat frame, that will probably be the costliest part of the tractor. Still not decided on a timber yet....
> 
> I have a big bulk of Cherry I could use, that would make the tractor a reddish brown (rust?) colour...


I vote for the Cherry. Nice grain, nice natural coloring, plus you already have it so it leaves your cash free for other needs.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I vote for the Cherry. Nice grain, nice natural coloring, plus you already have it so it leaves your cash free for other needs.


One of the downsides of carving in 'billet wood', unlike your billet aluminium, is that the chips aren't recycleable!

Anyway, I was wondering about siting the controller upside down inder the seat. Would that cause heat dissipation problems? Not that I am going to be pulling high amps for a long time.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> One of the downsides of carving in 'billet wood', unlike your billet aluminium, is that the chips aren't recycleable!
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering about siting the controller upside down inder the seat. Would that cause heat dissipation problems? Not that I am going to be pulling high amps for a long time.


You could make some nice particle board. 

Good question on the controller. I was wondering pretty much the same thing, because I want to mount Scratch's inside the tank shell on its side. Controller on one side of the frame, contactor, fuses, etc, on the other.

If you only use it in good weather you could carve a hole in the tractor's hood and have the fins on display!  My controller, charger, dc-dc, and electronics, on the Inhaler are going to be under glass in the bed.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

If they were bigger, more attractive fins I might think about them being on display but they look a bit weedy, more a surface finish then 'real' cooling fins.

You could have a cooling fan drawing air up from the underside of the tank.

I could do likewise and have seat heating/cooling. 

I can't really imagine partical board made from £70+ per cube foot timber.
It's American Cherry BTW, can't get really big sections of timber in the UK. I have a 10' length 10"x3" to play with, not sure it will be enough though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I want one of these for the tractor!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I want one of these for the tractor!


LOL you do know my EV sounds like a Hemi engine on start... And all of my functions TALK to the driver - look at the last pages of my thread listed below...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> LOL you do know my EV sounds like a Hemi engine on start... And all of my functions TALK to the driver - look at the last pages of my thread listed below...




If my car kept talking to me it would get shouted back at. It is bad enough that he satnav nags at me to "At the next available moment please make a U turn."
"I can't you idiot, the road is closed, that's why I am going this way!"


I prefer the language of mechanical noises and vibrations, or lack of.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A nice big package arrived this morning.

I bought two of these. Albright 48V contactors.

They are physically bigger then I thought, about 4" square by 3" thick. The contact gap is only about 4-5mm.

Not sure what current they will handle, I think about 150A. Not quite full capacity for the tractor but with short duration use they might be ok. Besides with two of them I could double up or just keep one as a spare.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> A nice big package arrived this morning.
> 
> I bought two of these. Albright 48V contactors.
> 
> ...


Woody,

I believe what you have is a Medium Duty Reversing Contactor with magnetic blowouts.

Thats a pretty good score, I may be wrong but I believe they list for plus $200.00 USD. 

Glad you got both at that price.

If you are planing on disassembling it and using it for a main contactor, I beleive only one can be used. The other would need modification. At least the SW 202 that I bought was that way.

Go to this link for Albright specs. 

http://curtisinstruments.com/?fuseaction=cDatasheets.dspListDS&CatID=7&siteID=1

The second listing down on the page will link to a Postscript page with all of the specs for the SW180 and 190 series.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> I believe what you have is a Medium Duty Reversing Contactor with magnetic blowouts.


I agree.



> If you are planing on disassembling it and using it for a main contactor, I beleive only one can be used. The other would need modification.


I think the 2 contactors are identical.

From the picture from the auction, it looks like they have 80V coils. Although it said 48 V.

But on the other hand, why not use them for reversing the tractor? My old eTractor needs to have the gear lever pushed into reverse. I intend to install a reversing contactor which is much easier to use. Just a flick of a switch and no messing around with the stupid shifter. In fact, I'm thinking of removing the shift lever and staying in 2nd all the time, with electric reverse 

major


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jim, major, yes they are a pair of reversing contactors and they have magnets in the contact area. They are the 48V ones, the seller had 80V ones too (but I was outbid for them) and he had the photos switched around on his auctions.

As the two parts are identical I am tempted to remove the cross over links on one set and use them as two isolators for the main supply circuit but it seems a waste when I can just use a 48V isolator switch. I am thinking of this one on Ebay.

I will get one set of contactors wired in as soon as I get this crazy theatre stuff out the way and my back is better.

ETA:Looking on the Curtis data sheets it would seem that I could run my controller at maximum amps for about 3-4minutes and still be within the contactor duty cycle.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I started wiring up the battery leads today, no photos as I got a bit distracted hearing a chainsaw buzzing outside (see the MR2 thread).

I am using ordinary battery clamps and first go with the 35sqmm cable wasn't very nice. The strands just spread around the screws which then cut through the strands.

I decided copper ferules would be good but not having any I tried an alternative.
I cut some 15mm copper pipe into 20mm long bits. I then cut each bit of pipe in half. The twisted strands of cable was then wrapped in the half round bit of pipe before it was clamped in the battery clamp. The screws could then crush down on the copper pipe making a 'D' shaped ferule. It seems to work.

So now I have a 48v battery pack ready to fuse.

I will need to make a mock up of the dash panel to house the potential switches and instruments soI know where the rest of the cabling will need to reach.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

As posted in the MR2 thread I have been really busy recently with house building stuff following falling through a floor.

Yesterday I found a structural problem with a supporting wall holding up my roof that needs immediate rectification before it collapses. I can do the work and have the roof supported through the house so it is safe for the time being.

Anyway, I decided, for some obscure reason, to weigh the tractor and the big 12" motor.
So I wondered down into 'the pit of dispair', the workshop, with my bathroom scales and weighed the load on a front and back wheel of the tractor. I know it isn't going to be deadly accurate as the tractor isn't level when I lift one wheel onto the scales but it will be close enough.

Front wheel: 52.6kg (axle 105.2kg)
Back wheel: 84.2kg (axle 168.4kg)

That should translate to 273.6kg or 603lbs (just over twice the weight of my 12" motor!).
I will need to allow a bit more for body work and all the rest of the stuff that needs to go on.

I was worrying about the weight for trailering but it is well within what I can move on an unbraked trailer.
I can tow up to 600kg unbraked with my car so that will allow me a good amount of weight to go into the trailer construction if needed.
Alternatively, I have just picked up, from Freecycle, a tiny little trailer with a broken leaf spring. The wheels are dinky and have a maximum load of 250kg each I think. That will give me around 150kg to build a lightweight trailer on those wheels, possibly just a frame that keeps the tractor wheels off the road while towing.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...possibly just a frame that keeps the tractor wheels off the road while towing.


That's the route I am going with the Inhaler. After you brought up backing up, I realized that I don't want to flat tow it. I want to be able to back up, and cover the street rod in bad weather. I don't want a big heavy trailer that I have to have a truck to tow, or dedicated place to store, either. The solution is basically like a dolly that attaches to the frame of the Inhaler, picking it up off the ground a little, and can be stored against the wall in the garage with it.

My goal is to use the street rod's frame for the main strength, making the "trailer" really more of a third axle and tow bar.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> My goal is to use the street rod's frame for the main strength, making the "trailer" really more of a third axle and tow bar.


Yes, along similar lines I was thinking of a long beam from the tow hitch with cross bars that attach to the axles on the tractor and the suspension for the trailer axle.
I'm trying to figure an easy way to put it under the tractor and then lifting the tractor off the ground.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Yes, along similar lines I was thinking of a long beam from the tow hitch with cross bars that attach to the axles on the tractor and the suspension for the trailer axle...


I am debating between a beam that reaches all the way from hitch to trailer axle, or a two-piece deal. A tow bar that bolts to the frame up front, and a dolly that bolts to it in back. I like the two-piece idea for convenience of getting everything hooked up. I can't think of any reason my chassis wouldn't be okay serving as the trailer frame. I need to make a decision soon because that's one of my next projects.





Woodsmith said:


> ...I'm trying to figure an easy way to put it under the tractor and then lifting the tractor off the ground.


I thought about that too. The easiest way seems to be to remove the trailer's wheels, jack the towee up from the rear differential, slide the tower under, wheels on, let it down. I guess casters would be a good idea for sliding it around under the towee.

I also want to have a canvas cover made that will wrap the whole vehicle. I'll can make composite hoops to keep it from rubbing on stuff, as it flaps in the wind. I considered a hard cover, but that brings up the storage issue again. I remember helping my buddy cover, uncover, and fold up the canvas cover for his race boat. Nice neat little package (when folded) that also did a good job of protecting the boat.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I thought about having a hitch on the tractor and just putting the axles under the back but I would have a nose(tongue) weight problem unless I put the trailer axle forward of the rear wheels.

I think in the US your trailers have wheels further back with a higher tongue weight then we have here. Makes it more stable but our cars don't have the rear axle load ratings for it.

I might go and check where the balance point of the tractor is.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I thought about having a hitch on the tractor and just putting the axles under the back but I would have a nose(tongue) weight problem unless I put the trailer axle forward of the rear wheels.
> 
> I think in the US your trailers have wheels further back with a higher tongue weight then we have here. Makes it more stable but our cars don't have the rear axle load ratings for it.
> 
> I might go and check where the balance point of the tractor is.


That's what I'm talking about - the trailer wheels in front of the towee's rear wheels. I will be towing with a car, so I need to keep the tongue weight reasonable. I've pulled around a ton with it before, with say a couple hundred pounds of tongue weight, and it pulled pretty decent.

I need to find the balance point as well, as soon as I get the motor and body permanently installed. I was just going to use some cement blocks to mock-up the battery weight when I get to that point. I want to design the dolly part so I can make fine adjustments to the trailer axle location as I build to rebalance, if necessary. You have all that pretty much sorted out though, so your weight distribution shouldn't chance enough to require rebalancing.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The balance point of the tractor is a line about 4" ahead of the rear tyres.
I fiugure if I get the trailer wheels centred just ahead of the tractor transaxle then I should get reasonable weight distribution. It just means that the big tyres are in the way a little.

It might be easier to set it up to tow backwards. The trailer wheels can then sit comfotably half way along the tractor wheel base.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It seems like ages since I did any work on the tractor but after picking up a cast iron bath from Ebay and then doing some more building work on my house I decided it was time to get back to some real fun!

I faffed about with the controller for a while and then decided to move it from under the seat. I figured I wanted to have a gear shift and a parking brake and that would start taking up space under the seat to fit the linkages in place.

So the controller got a new home at the back of the steering box.
Having got it there I decided to start placing some of the high current cables. I removed the batteries for safety.
I figured that I should put the reversing contactor near the motor to reduce the number of cables being run so that now lives under the seat.

This is where the controller is.









Only two 35sqmm cables will run to the motor.









Those who know Curtis controllers will notice that one of the cables was in the wrong place so I moved it.









Here is the motor and reversing contactor.

















Doing all that wiring meant I got to play with my cheap hydraulic crimper.








Those with a keen eye can see what is wrong with this picture.

I am using 35sqmm cable with 35-8 crimps.
The 35sqmm dies are only able to form a nice hexagon on the crimp it is so loose that the cable just slides out of it. It was so loose I was able to push the strands back in too.

I switched to using a 25sqmm die and crimped twice. First press was with the crimp turned 60deg and pressed about 90%. I then turned the crimp one flat and pressed it again fully.
I had to turn the crimp as the first one was left with large flat bits of flash where a bit of the crimp was squeezed out of the hex and between the flat parts of the die.

It is a pain to have to do this but it works.

I may try adding a dome head steel rivet inside the 35sqmm die so that it puts a dimple on one of the flats and see if that will work better.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> It seems like ages since I did any work on the tractor but after picking up a cast iron bath from Ebay and then doing some more building work on my house I decided it was time to get back to some real fun!


It's about time you got back to work on the important stuff. 

Really though I probably speak for everyone Glad you are back at it, I think we all want to see it roll with you sitting on it.



Woodsmith said:


> I faffed about with the controller for a while and then decided to move it from under the seat. I figured I wanted to have a gear shift and a parking brake and that would start taking up space under the seat to fit the linkages in place.
> 
> So the controller got a new home at the back of the steering box.
> Having got it there I decided to start placing some of the high current cables. I removed the batteries for safety.
> I figured that I should put the reversing contactor near the motor to reduce the number of cables being run so that now lives under the seat.


Your cable layout and controller position look good, The way you have it set up it should be easy to add a fan below the controller if heating is ever a problem.



Woodsmith said:


> Doing all that wiring meant I got to play with my cheap hydraulic crimper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could it be that the china tool has a set of dies with the holes inaccuratly placed, naw that would never happen




Woodsmith said:


> I am using 35sqmm cable with 35-8 crimps.
> The 35sqmm dies are only able to form a nice hexagon on the crimp it is so loose that the cable just slides out of it. It was so loose I was able to push the strands back in too.
> 
> I switched to using a 25sqmm die and crimped twice. First press was with the crimp turned 60deg and pressed about 90%. I then turned the crimp one flat and pressed it again fully.
> ...


I have noticed that the lugs that you order form various suppliers will have considerable differences in wall thickness, that may be the reason the 35sqmm dies did not do a good job. I have been using hydraulic crimper on some to the smaller stuff like anderson connectors on 6 and 4 awg wire and have noticed a large variation in wall thickness between different lugs. I compensate with different dies just like you did.

I have done a number of crimps that left the flash on the side of the crimpand don't see any reason not to, except how it looks, so I just leave it that way. I tried what you did but noticed cracks where the flash was pushed in. You are working with bigger stuff so you might not get cracks.

Anyway cant wait to see how it all turns out


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> It's about time you got back to work on the important stuff...


Exactly. 

So, what's the plan for the bodywork and seat now Woodster?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> It's about time you got back to work on the important stuff.


 Yeah, I needed a break from the house. In the reworking of the bedroom suite layout I have had a few ideas and a lot of input from others while working. I am now at the stage where I need to decide a final design before I invest too much more work.
The idea I am now swaying towards requires me to build one, maybe two, curved doors for the room. The curved doors won't be a simple curve but half a hyperbola, almost flat on the hinge side and a tightening curve on the lock side, and also a mirror image of each other.



Jimdear2 said:


> I have done a number of crimps that left the flash on the side of the crimpand don't see any reason not to, except how it looks, so I just leave it that way. I tried what you did but noticed cracks where the flash was pushed in. You are working with bigger stuff so you might not get cracks.
> 
> Anyway cant wait to see how it all turns out


I only wanted to loose the flash before it appeared as it was a pain filling it off before I put the heat shrink onto it.
Anyway, it works and the tool was cheap so I can't complain too much.



toddshotrods said:


> Exactly.
> 
> So, what's the plan for the bodywork and seat now Woodster?


I will need to get the brakes fitted and then save a little to get a DC-DC converter to figure out where it will go. That will determine the bonnet shape and size. When I get the parking brake and gear stick in place I will start laying out a seat for it. That will be sooner I think.

Then it will need to be stripped and taken outside 'to the body shop' but with the current spate of cold, wet and windy weather here (with it being summer!) We can't finish the drive and so I don't have space for it yet.

Soon though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Managed a little more work today.

I welded in a bracket to hold the reversing contactor. I will need to sort out some sort of cover for it to protect the terminals from extraneous metal parts and dirt.









I also figured where my feet would need to go to operate pedals and clamped a bit of bar under the chassis like bike foot pegs. The easiest way to weld it was to tip the tractor up on end. Fortunately it just fits with the front wheels removed.









I extended the extraction to pull away the fumes while welding.









I have also been working on the parking brake.
I am planning on using a length of V belt on the original drive pulley. One end will be anchored and the other end will wrap almost all the way round the pulley and then be fixed to the prake lever.
I need to figure a ratchet on it some how.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I need to figure a ratchet on it some how.


The easy way seems to be to use an automotive e-brake handle and modify it. You get the whole ratchet/release mechanism cheap and just adapt it for your application.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Todd beat me to the E brake handle suggestion (Great minds think alike). That should give a nice looking result. If you work with end piece (the end with an adjuster) of the cable you might be able to place the handle in a nice location.

On your tractor transport trailer I would like to suggest the trailer we used to build to transport our dune buggies. 

It is a T shaped rig. The ball hitch is welded to the base of the T the wheels go at the cross of the T with drop axles and the carrier pans for the rear wheels go just behind the T. The T is built from some 2x2 thick wall square tubing. You want the crossbar of rhe T to be about 3 to 4 inches above the ground with the tires installd, hence the drop axles. The rear pans are placed to balance the weight mostly on the trailer tires. The pan ramps can be fixed or hinged. the front of the tractor is modified with a bracket with a 2 and a bit inch wide notch that will slide over the verticle of the T. We used to glue plastic onto a flat welded to the top of the notch.

The way it works is you drove up to the trailer front wheels go onto the pans and you continue to drive forward. When the front wheels go off the pans the bracket engages to the verticle of the T and as you continue to drive forward, the bracket slides up the verticle until the rear wheels are on the pans.

We used to just bolt the front sliding bracket of the tractor to ears welded onto the verticle of the T (these were also stops to keep you from going too far). Then a couple of ratchet straps over the rear tires and you are off and running.

The trailer stores easily on its side or hanging against a wall. We just backed the pans aginst a suitable wall and then used a rope and pully to pull it up against the wall.

If what I wrote is not clear, let me know and I'll try to make you a sketch, my hands are getting a bit shakey.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have a big old parking brake lever off an old Sankey army trailer that might come in useful. The route the brake lever takes is a little complex though, it weaves it way under the seat frame past the reversing contactor. I will see if I can fit a ratchet pawl in it somewhere.

I can see what you mean with the trailer Jim. What would you have for suspension on such a T frame over there? Over here we would use Indespension rubber suspended trailing arms. I am hoping not to have to buy any.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I have a big old parking brake lever off an old Sankey army trailer that might come in useful. The route the brake lever takes is a little complex though, it weaves it way under the seat frame past the reversing contactor. I will see if I can fit a ratchet pawl in it somewhere.
> 
> I can see what you mean with the trailer Jim. What would you have for suspension on such a T frame over there? Over here we would use Indespension rubber suspended trailing arms. I am hoping not to have to buy any.


Woody,

Suspension . . . we don use no steeenking suspension.

Truely, we never bothered with suspension, everything was so light that the trailer tires and the big lowpressure baloneys on the buggy did what little we needed. 

I don't know if you would need anything other then big soft tires on the trailer for the weight you will have. The right size tire and low pressure should give you at least 2 to 3 inches.

As far as the brake lever take a trip to a local dismanteler get something nice and a few feet of cable. The Thingy is looking too nice now to cobble something ugly onto it.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

We have to have trailer suspension over here to be legal on the road at any weight unless it is, say a cycle trailer or running at less then 12mph.
Apparently going over 12mph with an unsuspended trailer doesn't get a speeding ticket, it gets a 'constructions and use' offence which carries hefty fines and possible loss of operators licence if it is commercial use.

This is the type of brake leve I have in mind.
Mine is a bit tatty but should clean up.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> We have to have trailer suspension over here to be legal on the road at any weight unless it is, say a cycle trailer or running at less then 12mph.
> Apparently going over 12mph with an unsuspended trailer doesn't get a speeding ticket, it gets a 'constructions and use' offence which carries hefty fines and possible loss of operators licence if it is commercial use.


Got to keep those Public Servants" happy. You got to wonder though, which politicians relative benifited from that rule.



Woodsmith said:


> This is the type of brake lever I have in mind.
> Mine is a bit tatty but should clean up.


Well, if you have it on hand, I guess it will do. Better then spending money that can be used elsewhere and it really does look business like, if a little large.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> ...and it really does look business like, if a little large.


Just wait until Woody get through welding it up on the tractor with 1/2" steel plate!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Just wait until Woody get through welding it up on the tractor with 1/2" steel plate!


LOL!

You two know me too well!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I spent a few hours in the workshop this evening, after getting a soaking in the rain earlier.
I started on wiring up the control circuit loom and the battery monitoring system.

I decided that I only really needed to be able to check the voltages of the pack and also the indivdual batteries to be able to tell what's going on to start with. So I got a cheap (free from my Dad's old stock) multimeter and a rotary 2 pole 6 way, break before make (very important that bit) switch.
I have a wire from each end of the pack and one from each link making five wires. That allows me to wire up the switch so that I have an off position, one position for each battery and the final one for the pack. The multimeter is connected to the switch and so I can check each battery voltage and the pack voltage in turn.









I then made up a loom from the back of the tractor to the front. I decided to tape wrap the wires flat like ribbon cable. Easier for me to 'see' the loom.
At the back I have the connections for the reversing contactors and also the 'seat switch'. I might not have a seat switch a the seat won't have any movement in it but I figured that I would have the switch on the gear shift as a neutral lock out. I can always add the seat switch on series if I change my mind.









At the controller I made my connections to the controller plug. The plug was a computor connector from Maplins with leads already connected. I soldered and sleaved the connections with heat shrink.
The loom then continues up to the dash for a reversing switch and the key switch.









I did have an ON-OFF-ON switch somewhere but I seem to have misplaced it. I may just have to buy one.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

I did not want to be left out here! I am still Lurking and working 18 hours a day... So keep up the work and the pics they make my day, late at night!

I see Todd and Jim have kept you well in line...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Glad you're enjoying it, Dave. I had a ride on it today!


I installed a makeshift dash today to hold the switches and fuses. It is very basic for now but allows me to resolve cable lengths and locations for stuff.

The dash holds a battery isolator with a low current switch on the back, a 300a fuse, the reversing switch and the battery monitoring switch.

















With it all connected up and a microswitch on the neutral lockout I was able to test the operation of the loom.
I jacked up the back end of the tractor so it didn't run across the workshop.   
I used the normally closed position on the microswitch to save holding it shut. The throttle is still the same slider pot used before.

Here is a video of how it is working with forward and reverse.


I decided to take it off the stands and have a ride!  

It works really well! Even though I am using a hand throttle, and I only had 2' of space to move in, it was fun going back and forth and steering it about on the floor!
I didn't take video as I needed both hands but definate EV grin as it is my first ride on my own EV build! 

Not having brakes yet I wanted to see what plug braking did so I connected it and had a go. I didn't notice much effect but I suppose only having 2' of driving space wouldn't allow much effect.
I think I will add the plug braking and a switch so that I can switch it in or out.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Here is a little video of a milestone for all my friends here who have been helpful and supportive, Todd, Simon Rafferty, Jozzer, Jackbauer, to name a few.
But I want to dedicate this to my friend, Jimdear2, who has become a real good friend away from the forum, for all his support and encouragement on my little tractor project.

So, Jim, this is for you:


Sorry it cut the top of my head off at the start but that's the problem with these little phone cameras and small basement workshops.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Great accomplishment!!!! I only wish I might be able to match just a fraction of your skill and application.

I did notice that uncontrollable GRIN!!!!!

Well done.....and thanks for the video

Eric


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

esoneson said:


> Great accomplishment!!!! I only wish I might be able to match just a fraction of your skill and application.
> 
> I did notice that uncontrollable GRIN!!!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks Eric, I don't know about skill and application but FUN, FUN, FUN has been the driving force! It's even better then 'honeys' and stuff.

My cheeks are aching as I am still grinning!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Dude, that's just freakin' awesome! I'm beyond happy for you!  Anything I did to help, I was more than glad to do. I just can't believe I'm smiling this much for a tractor - so cool!  (No offense Jim, it just hasn't ever been my cup of tea )


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

^^^LOL, Todd!
I'm still grinning and I've spent the evening at the theatre doing other stuff.

I know you prefer your hotrods but this thing burns rubber! Well, it chirps those big tyres when I hit the reversing switch at 1/4 throttle and happily spins the tyres when I back it up against the table behind it. The table leg has broken off, now I've hit it square on a couple of times!

I daren't hit full throttle as I only have a couple or three feet to move about in.

I have climbed a set of car ramps, easy, a 4" baulk of timber, easy, the 8" height of the ramps side on, scary but still easy. Once the tyre tread gets a bite the motor just happily lifts it up. The only noise is the controller whine.
The only problem climbing things is how to get off again, without brakes it just rolls away into something less strong. I have to stop playing with it until I get brakes as it is a bit like a bull in a china shop!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Snake it out to the street and pop a few wheelies !! 

Made my day !!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't think I would have let myself get that far in the basement, with that sturdy of a toy - foundation work on a house isn't easy or cheap!  At the very least, I would have a whole shop full of toys and equipment to replace.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Snake it out to the street and pop a few wheelies !!


If only I could I would, it is in a basement if you remember.

Once I get the brakes done, parking and service, and got a proper foot throttle I will need to dismantle it, clean and paint all the parts before I can take it outside. It will then be reassembled and readied for bodywork. I will be playing with it outside then though.

I still don't have anywhere to put it yet and I may have to empty out my box trailer to use as a garage until it is bodied and weather proof.

Todd will be watching in interest then as I will be wood working and Jim will be tutting at me as I start assembling the parts to build a commuting trike.
That will also be wooden bodied too, I think.

If the trike idea takes off then I will sell on the MR2 and get a more loved donor vehicle for the 12" motor. Still fancy an MGB GT for that.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I don't think I would have let myself get that far in the basement, with that sturdy of a toy - foundation work on a house isn't easy or cheap!  At the very least, I would have a whole shop full of toys and equipment to replace.


Ahhh, but I built the foundations for the house.

About ten years ago I underpinned my house, with the help of my late friend, David, and now have it all sitting on a reinforced concrete raft foundation with drainage channels underneath to control the ground water. 
I know my house isn't going anywhere if I hit it with the tractor, my work benches are another matter though!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I know my house isn't going anywhere if I hit it with the tractor, my work benches are another matter though!


Woody,

Is that why you titled your first drive video a "bench test"?

I am soooooooo glad to see that EV grin. I bet there are a bunch of us that got an EV grin as well. I'm sure that many of us that are following your build all feel like we have a little piece of the tractor.

Thanks you for your comments. Any help you accepted from me made my day since I'm so restricted now. If I can't do at least I can contribute.

Keep at it,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

LOL

All my videos are titled 'bench test' just due to my aspie way of managing my files. It is bench test as it is in the workshop and will change to road test when it is outside even though it may not be on a road.

I am glad it makes you happy to see how the tractor is developing, that is important to me.

Take care Jim.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

I meant to bring this up in the last post. I know you are getting ready to get your brakes working. Just wanted to say I had good luck with automotive clutch master cylinders. If you go to a dismanteller yard and get the master cylinders, pushrod and pedal and remote reservoirs (If equipped) from a like pair of cars you can put a nice brake system togeather. I used them on the Something Different tractor and have had very good luck with them. 

Another good cheap source for master cylinder are those from motorcycles. I use the front brake master cylinders and cllutch master cylinder from the motorcycles on the V65 single engine and the twin V65 double engine tractors.

I have see people take them off the handlebar and hook them up, bleed them, then once the reservoir cap is on, turn and mount them 90 degrees so the lever points up and actually foot operate rhe levers. Works great.

Just suggestions, I'll be interested to see what you finally do end up with.

Jim


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Add go-cart kits to that Jim... I was thinking about the motorcycles also LOL...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jim, I have an old but unused single line master cylinder from a Series Land Rover clutch pedal. It has the reservoir on it and I was planning to use that one for the main foot brake.

I then found cheap on Ebay a similar cylinder without the reservoir so I bought it. I was planning on getting a second one so I could use them for the fiddle brakes.

For now though I am tempted to leave the fiddle brakes, as you mentions a while ago, adn concentrate on getting it working properly. I am going to have right foot for 'go' and left foot for 'stop'.
It occured to me tonight while working on the parking brake and gear shift that I could just fit that second cylinder in line and have a parking brake lever on it and just park on the hydraulics. It's not road legal so I don't have to meet the non hydraulic element of the braking requirements.

Anyway, I got the parking brake sorted out by using a bit of lateral thinking. Instead of trying to get a V belt to work on the pulley I decided to have lock on the holes in the pulley centre.

I used a bit of springy flat bar with a bolt in it that locates on the holes and then fixed the bar to one of the transmission bolts. I then made a push pull shaft with a ramp on it to engage/disengage the bolt. A simple lever will move the shaft back and forth without the need for a ratchet or any other complex mechanisms.

Brake on:









Brake off:










I also started sorting out a gear lever linkage to connect to the gear knob that was under the seat.
I made use of a couple of holes on the side of the transmission case to mount a bracket and then made a crank to work the selector.

















the fork is a loose fit on the selector but trapped between the washers and the nut. The other end will have a push pull shaft to a lever.

I've not made the levers for either the parking brake or the gear shift as I am thinking of making them from wood. also I nned to have the seat position finalised before I can be sure that the levers will be accessible and not in the way.


For the trottle I came across this on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-rover-de...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20b210e99a
I am trying to find out what resistance the pot on it is. If it is 5k then it would make an excellent pedal to use.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody, 

I'll post this link here because I know you will get a kick out of it and this is probably one of the most accessed threads on the Forum so lots of others will see it..

http://blog.aekpackagingequipment.c...e-teamed-up-with-Orange-County-Choppers!.aspx

Would you beleive a 13 inch race prepped GE in a motorcycle with a 600 HP battery. It came out of Dennis Berube's Drag Race Pick Up

Kill a Cycle watch out. Plus they want to try a land speed run with it.

Going to be fun to watch.

Jim


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> For the trottle I came across this on Ebay.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-rover-de...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20b210e99a
> I am trying to find out what resistance the pot on it is. If it is 5k then it would make an excellent pedal to use.


Woody I was looking around and found this one as well.

eBay Item number 280537013106 10 pounds. 

They might be hall effect as well, do you have that option on your controller?

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't think mine does hall effect.

I found the same item on Ebay today. I'm watching a few at the moment. Simon Rafferty has one 'under his bench' that he has offered me so I will see what he wants for it and then hopefully have a play. He thinks they are 5k pots too.



That's one powerful bike if they manage to pull it off!
I didn't know OCC did fast bikes, the 'American Chopper' series we have here must be really out of date.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> I'll post this link here because I know you will get a kick out of it and this is probably one of the most accessed threads on the Forum so lots of others will see it..
> 
> ...


I'm all mixed up on this one. I'm trying to be excited because I love racing, and love that big 13" motor, but the whole plan doesn't make sense. I really hope that OCC is really a figure head for television coverage. Motorcycle racers on professionally-built bikes, with just a minor flaw or simple driver error, have been decapitated. When I was drag racing (much slower) motorcycles, getting a ride as a Pro rider was my goal. I stopped because I don't have a strong enough fear instinct to back out of the throttle - meaning one day I was going to die trying. I really didn't care about dying, I just knew my bed-ridden mom needed me alive. All that being said, you couldn't pay me any sum of money to ride a 7-second OCC-built bike down the track.

The second issue is a torque motor in a bike. It was perfect in the truck because it was a heavy vehicle. I am borderline with an 11-inch motor in a 1200lb street rod, and already thinking of ways to deal with having too much torque. You want to put the bike on the (wheelie) bar off the line for weight transfer, but you also want the front wheel back on the asphalt before too long. Riding a 7-second unicycle on a wrinkle-wall slick is not good. 600hp from a 13" motor means more torque than a lot of purpose-built drag cars can effectively use. In the concept drawing, there's 350lbs of motor plus the rider just in front of the rear tire. Even If the battery pack is heavy, the balance is off. might do okay on the salt though, with more static weight on the back wheel, and a less finicky power delivery.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...That's one powerful bike if they manage to pull it off!
> I didn't know OCC did fast bikes, the 'American Chopper' series we have here must be really out of date.


There was a dragbike done on one of the shows, quite a while ago, but I can't remember who the company was. It was pretty much a standard Harley dragbike - everything where it's supposed to be, with some of their touch in non-critical areas. IIRC, there was professional input on the chassis and on riding it. They had enough sense to know they had no idea what they were doing - hope they still do. Dismemberment and/or death come quickly with motorcycle errors.

I constantly entertain the idea of building an electric drag bike. I've come to realize that I don't have parents, siblings, or a spouse to worry about leaving behind and that itch has kind of resurfaced. It's not intense enough, so far, that I have to scratch it but it's definitely back.

EDIT: I looked on the TLC site. The NAPA bike ran 9.99, with a pro rider. He said it was probably capable of 8.90's. That's impressive but worlds away from a Pro bike. I went close to that 9.99 on a stock wheelbase GSXR (no wheelie bar), and my buddy has run a 9-teen or 9.0 (can't remember for sure) on his Kawasaki ZX14 (stretched with NOS, no wheelie bar). He was looking for 8's when I moved, but I haven't talked to him since to see if he got there yet. The point being - that's amateur territory and nothing like aiming for 7's. You have time to eat lunch and read a book in the 9's.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I made a parking brake lever.

Brake off:









Brake on:









It works well enough to stop the tractor from rolling away but while playing I forgot to let off the brake before applying drive. The brake broke. The bolt in the pulley spokes was ripped out and the steel strap twisted all out of shape. I have now 'beefed' it up a lot but I might remake it in my usual 6mm steel. It will be fine for parking up though.

I also made the gear lever from some 20x2mm box tube.










The link is a bit of 5mm rod that I had spare. I formed eyes into the ends to fit the M8 bolts.

Trying it out I found that the curved part of the lever was rubbing the back of my knee while sitting so I adjusted it.
I shortened the rod and put a twist into the lever so it is further back.









The next thing was to make the brake pedal. That was more my usual over the top and over engineered part.

















I still need to make a bracket for the master cylinder and also I will need to bend the crank lever over a bit as the cyclinder is a little close to the edge of the pedal.

This is how it all looks from the driver's seat (excuse the view between my legs!).








You can see how the brake pedal fits in
The gear lever, to the right, is forward for low gear. High gear is only a 1 1/2" backwards.

I also have this master cylinder.









It will sit low between the chassis rails and have a conventional hand brake lever over it. It will be plumbed in line with the foot brake working on the same hydraulic line so I won't leave it on when parked over night, the bolt in the pulley spokes will surfice for that.

I also tried the MR2 throttle pot.









It works but, like the slider pot, seems to have a dead area over the first 1/4 to 1/3 of the action. I am begining to wonder if it is controller programming.
Reading the manual I can see that I can reprogramme it with a £450 programmer or by manual methods with the flashing LED. However, it doesn't say how.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Making real progress I see. Most of what you have done looks real good. 

I would like to comment on one thing that looks dangerous. I think that your footpegs are too far back. Without fenders you stand a chance of getting you leg caught between the peg and the tire. Even with fenders, at the best, your leg and heel will be cramped against the fender. Take a look at newer tractors and see how their seating position and I think you will see what I mean. The existing pegs should be the rearmost of a footboard.

Again, before you tie down your brakes I would like to suggest that you skip the single master cylinder to both calipers set up you are currently planning and go to a dual master cylinder set up with one master to one caliper. If the two masters you have are both 3/4 inch bore You are golden. Place both the masters side by side then all you have to do is tap the reservoir of one and plumb it to the other. You place your pedals close enough together that you can cover both with your foot and far enough apart to operate one at a time. Or you can use a tie bar to link both pedals when driving. Then when you need differential brakes you flip out the tie Bar and press the required pedal. 

Looks like the only thing you need to complete the thing is a decent throttle. Did you find out from Simon what those diesel throttles were? Zero to 5K ohms or something else. 

Any sketches of proposed Hoods and Fenders?

Be well,
Jim


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> ...Any sketches of proposed Hoods and Fenders?...


That's what I was wondering?!


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## MJ Monterey (Aug 20, 2009)

You can be sure they will come out as fine as this

http://www.alexandreleupin.com/albums/album111/Hispano_Suiza_H6C_Tulip_Wood_Torpedo_1.sized.jpg


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Making real progress I see. Most of what you have done looks real good.
> 
> ...


Hi Jim, I read your post earlier today and you got me thinking so I had another look at what you meant.

The foot peg is supposed to be the back of my heal rather then the instep. I put it there as a starting point on the basis it was the rear most point of my foot and I need to keep the space ahead clear until the pedals were sorted. I can't move my feet any further forward as the steering link will need space too.
However, I see what you mean about the risk of getting my foot caught in the tyre, thank you for the warning. I will either have body work ahead of the wheel or I will have a foot board with a raised back sheild behind my ankle.

I also had a rethink on the brakes too. I spent most of the day 'stock taking' my steel to see how much 'stuff' I have left to use and then how best to make a dual pedal set up.

So I came up with this.

































Big pedals for big feet.
I think I am going to get a second cylinder without reservior and use them for the foot brakes. The one with reservior will be used to feed them and be applied with a hand brake lever. That way I have a hand brake and dual foot brakes.

ETA: With all that cutting I finally had to change the hacksaw blade.








Apart from a few cuts with an angle gringer, everything on the tractor has been cut with that one blade. Pretty good going.

Simon does think the Land Rover pedal is 5k, he is going to send his to me to play with. Hopefully in a week or so I can start assembling that.

I want the tractor to be outside next week so I can start working on the bodywork (Todd).
I will empty out my box trailer so I can garage the tractor inside it. I will want to clean up all the metal work and get it all painted while it is apart. I'm not sure how I am going to get the tractor in the trailer yet, the easy way is to assemble inside, or I can winch it in.
I can't risk driving it in as there is not quite enough head room for me to do that safely, unless I have remote control!

I don't have body work plans yet, much depends on what works as I start framing it and placing the key outline points.

I have had a thought about another costly essential, the DC-DC converter.
I have 48v in the pack.
If I use 24v lamps in the lighting system and then run front and rear lights, on each side, in series then I can feed them with pack voltage.
There is nothing else that needs any lower voltage.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I want the tractor to be outside next week so I can start working on the bodywork (Todd)...


Is it next week yet? 

Pedals are too cool for school! Sweet!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> However, I see what you mean about the risk of getting my foot caught in the tyre, thank you for the warning. I will either have body work ahead of the wheel or I will have a foot board with a raised back sheild behind my ankle.


Glad you saw that. Hate to change your nickname to shorty or gimpy.



Woodsmith said:


> I also had a rethink on the brakes too. I spent most of the day 'stock taking' my steel to see how much 'stuff' I have left to use and then how best to make a dual pedal set up.
> 
> I think I am going to get a second cylinder without reservior and use them for the foot brakes. The one with reservior will be used to feed them and be applied with a hand brake lever. That way I have a hand brake and dual foot brakes.


Looks really good . . . and very uhhh "substantial" is one word that comes to mind. I guess you won't have to worry too much about bending anything. 



Woodsmith said:


> ETA: With all that cutting I finally had to change the hacksaw blade.
> 
> Apart from a few cuts with an angle gringer, everything on the tractor has been cut with that one blade. Pretty good going.


WOW . . . I hope you saved the name of who made/sold that blade! Send them a picture of the tractor and a testimonial and they might send you a lifetime supply of blades (a pack of two)

Jokeing aside, you really should send something off if you know who made it, companies always enjoy getting stuff like that.

At the very least, mount it on a nice framed display panel and put it in a place of honor in you new Diggs on the third floor.



Woodsmith said:


> Simon does think the Land Rover pedal is 5k, he is going to send his to me to play with. Hopefully in a week or so I can start assembling that.


Man that would be a real break if it is 0 to 5K. That would save you from having to make a "Substantial" throttle pedal



Woodsmith said:


> I will empty out my box trailer so I can garage the tractor inside it. I will want to clean up all the metal work and get it all painted while it is apart. I'm not sure how I am going to get the tractor in the trailer yet, the easy way is to assemble inside, or I can winch it in.
> I can't risk driving it in as there is not quite enough head room for me to do that safely, unless I have remote control!


We actually do something similar to remote control with some of the gas pulling tractors when loading and unloading them, just pop them into low gear or start them in gear and idle them around. I can suggest your slider reostat and a set of long jumper wires. You could even lay guide rails to keep the steering straight when driving in and backing out.

Another thought is a tempoary garage a quick wooden frame and a cheep plastic tarp. I know this guy who is supposed to be really good with wood.



Woodsmith said:


> I want the tractor to be outside next week so I can start working on the bodywork (Todd).
> 
> I don't have body work plans yet, much depends on what works as I start framing it and placing the key outline points.


Can't wait. Are you thinking retro or something else.?



Woodsmith said:


> I have had a thought about another costly essential, the DC-DC converter.
> I have 48v in the pack.
> If I use 24v lamps in the lighting system and then run front and rear lights, on each side, in series then I can feed them with pack voltage.
> There is nothing else that needs any lower voltage.


I can't help you with that, electronics and I don't get along. My only suggestions would be to build lights out of a bunch of LEDs in series.

I also saw someone building small DC to DCs out of wall warts and computer power supplies.

Maybe Simon or one of the other electronics wizkids can come up with something inexpensive you can build. 

Be well and keep on having fun,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Is it next week yet?
> 
> Pedals are too cool for school! Sweet!


Giz a chance, Todd!
I am only hoping that I can get it outside and assembled again. It will be a little while before I have anything for you to look at.

The process will be a little like yours, experimentation on the vehicle to see what looks right. To do that I want to be able to sit on it and photograph it to get proportions and shape right. I still don't know how I am going to make the body yet. Metal bashing is the easiest, followed by glass on a mould.

I may make a foam former and lay wood veneers, like doing glass fibre but more difficult, or I may make a body frame and then cover it with ply or thick veneers. Maybe it will be laid up in small sticks, bread and butter style, and then carved.

I won't forget to take photos, though I generally don't publish my working methods (in case it goes wrong) but I will make an exception.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> ...Looks really good . . . and very uhhh "substantial" is one word that comes to mind. I guess you won't have to worry too much about bending anything...


It just looks normal to me now when looking at Woody's projects. I just hope I don't start subconsciously thinking it's normal on my own, or I'll be the slowest racer on the track - never break anything though! 





Jimdear2 said:


> ...Man that would be a real break if it is 0 to 5K. That would save you from having to make a "Substantial" throttle pedal...


Don't get your hopes up, he can still opt to mount the "unsubstantial" Rover pedal with 1" plate. 





Jimdear2 said:


> ...Can't wait. Are you thinking retro or something else.?...


Speaking of that, are there going to be sketches or renderings to guide your Woodness on this journey? Holler if you need a hand, that's one thing we can share freely without shipping and duties. I assume you can draw perfectly fine on your own, since you have serious artistic skills, but just wanted to let you know I'm here, willing, and able, if you need anything...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Looks really good . . . and very uhhh "substantial" is one word that comes to mind. I guess you won't have to worry too much about bending anything.





toddshotrods said:


> It just looks normal to me now when looking at Woody's projects. I just hope I don't start subconsciously thinking it's normal on my own, or I'll be the slowest racer on the track - never break anything though!


I only use what I have. Thing is, thinner stuff rusts away while it is it the scrap yard before I can get to it!



Jimdear2 said:


> WOW . . . I hope you saved the name of who made/sold that blade! Send them a picture of the tractor and a testimonial and they might send you a lifetime supply of blades (a pack of two)
> 
> Jokeing aside, you really should send something off if you know who made it, companies always enjoy getting stuff like that.
> 
> At the very least, mount it on a nice framed display panel and put it in a place of honor in you new Diggs on the third floor.


It is an Eclipse 24tpi blade. My dad has loads of cheap 'made in China' blades that are blunt after about 2" of 10mm plate. They were free but wasted time changing blades so I spent some money and bought the Eclipse blade at the start of the project. Money well spent and still cheaper, and quieter, then a Sawsall.





Jimdear2 said:


> Man that would be a real break if it is 0 to 5K. That would save you from having to make a "Substantial" throttle pedal





toddshotrods said:


> Don't get your hopes up, he can still opt to mount the "unsubstantial" Rover pedal with 1" plate.


I do still have the previous brake pedal and figured that would make a good throttle pedal working a cable to the MR2 TPS.



Jimdear2 said:


> We actually do something similar to remote control with some of the gas pulling tractors when loading and unloading them, just pop them into low gear or start them in gear and idle them around. I can suggest your slider reostat and a set of long jumper wires. You could even lay guide rails to keep the steering straight when driving in and backing out.


I may have to try that. I think the controller can be set to 15% power so that would be a good remote control setting.



Jimdear2 said:


> Another thought is a tempoary garage a quick wooden frame and a cheep plastic tarp. I know this guy who is supposed to be really good with wood.


No room for that, I don't have a yard or garden for the tractor you know. Were've stopped laying cobbles on the drive at the moment as it has been too wet so stuff is just everywhere and I can hardly get the car on the drive never mind a shed for the tractor.





Jimdear2 said:


> Can't wait. Are you thinking retro or something else?
> Be well and keep on having fun,
> Jim





toddshotrods said:


> Speaking of that, are there going to be sketches or renderings to guide your Woodness on this journey? Holler if you need a hand, that's one thing we can share freely without shipping and duties. I assume you can draw perfectly fine on your own, since you have serious artistic skills, but just wanted to let you know I'm here, willing, and able, if you need anything...


Cheers Todd, I will call on you if I need to.

I am still thinking of that lovely Napier Railton nose cone.

For the seat, I found out that I will need a back rest due to the fierce acceleration. The seat base is also about the same height as the rear wheels and so may have the fenders attached to it or be a part of it. I am undecided about upholstery. Depends on how soft I run the tyres I suppose. I have a bag of leather off cuts that could be used to make a conventional style seat and I do like the 'bomber' seat that Fishguts has for his trike.

I will see.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...Cheers Todd, I will call on you if I need to.
> 
> I am still thinking of that lovely Napier Railton nose cone...


Cool & I love that nose!

I just knew you would catch me and quote that before I could correct my grammar and fix my typos - darn it!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I think I've fixed the typos for you, Todd.

I have carried on with the brake pedals sorting out little details like pedal stops, return springs and mounting the cylinders.

The cylinders are mounted on a frame of 20x2mm square tube on the basis I didn't have any suitable flat plate that was worth cutting up for it. It made it simpler to sort out and gives me the option to add a third cylinder for a hand brake or foot brake if I dicide to.
The pedal stop is the square post behind the pivot point. Both pedals lean back on it. To set the stop to level the pedals I had thought about having adjustable screws but that was getting silly for detail so I decided that once set it will stay put so I added a welded blob on the back of the right pedal and filed it down until it rested at the same level as the left pedal.









For return springs I found a set of old Anglepoise lamp springs. The heavy single spring is used for the heavier pedal and the two lighter springs are on the lighter pedal. It feels about right.









So now the view below looks much better and complete.









I am not far off stripping it all down to move it outside. I will have to order some prake pipe, rigid and flexi, as once it is reassembled I will be so tempted to take it for a drive and I really want to have brakes for that.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Just lovely. Very well made and very uhhhh "substantial".

I think you will find that with the set up you have you will not need a third master for dual brakes. If you want single pedal action, all you need is a tie bar between the two pedals

As far as a parking brake all you need is a flip up stop on one of the pedals that will keep it applied. If you feel a lever is needed then you can take your big ratchet lever from that trailer and make a link that presses against the back of the arms where the push rods are attached. Move the lever and the arms are pressed forward.

Throttle and a bit of plumbing left, getting close. You are going to have everyone sitting on the edge of their seat until you make that first official run down the block.

One last question I've been meaning to ask. Have you checked the oil in the transmission?

Going to paint each item as it appears from the basement in order of assembly? What color, basic black gloss or some other?

Get going
Jim


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Just got in from the fields - we had a break in the rain and good days so I have one of the Belarus tractors raking my wind-rows and I can tell you for fact the brakes on almost ALL Belarus suck! I have hills and have learned NOT to stop - Sooo you have FAR exceeded the brake systems on my huge tractors!!! Nice job Wood, it is up to your usually great standard....


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Nice job Wood, it is up to your usually great standard....


Hey Dave, be careful of what you say or Woody will start thinking he's as good as he really is.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Hey Dave, be careful of what you say or Woody will start thinking he's as good as he really is.
> 
> Jim


Ha ha ha ha!

How do you know I'm not just one of these sad nutters sitting at home and making up this whole yarn from images pinched off the internet?


I am going to take my time over the break down and paint, not because I am doing a fantastic spray job but because I want to photograph the whole process to form a build manual. I also want to properly label the cables and their connections.
I will brush paint in red oxide but I haven't decided on a colour yet. I must do some research. I don't know if I want a modest and sedate colour or something bright and colourful. Colourful will need a perfect surface finish though.

In the meantime I decided to cut the back end off the tractor.
It used to be this long:









Now it is this long:









The reason is because there was really very little lateral strength in it being in two parts, however, I couldn't weld them together as they need to be in two parts to be removable with the brake calipers attached. I wanted some lateral strength for mounting a tow hitch and didn't want to bend anything cornering.

Also, the tow hitch I want to use is a little bigger then the one that came with the transaxle, and a lot longer.
Original green one against the replacement.









I will make up a plate to take the hitch and will span and bridge the two bits on the axle and add some lateral support.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Also, the tow hitch I want to use is a little bigger then the one that came with the transaxle, and a lot longer.
> Original green one against the replacement.
> 
> 
> ...


Yep Todd we all knew he would find somewhere to put a piece of 1/2 inch plate.

Good lord Woody do you think you have maybe taken substantial a little too far. 

Dave will probably tell you that is a bigger hitch then is on his big farm tractors. It sure is bigger then the one on the Fordson Super Major we have here on the farm and that tractor weighs about 5 or 6000 lbs.

Are we having fun?
Jim

Hope the front wheels will stay on the ground.
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I can't use that hitch anywhere else so I might as well use it on the tractor. I've pulled 38 tons with it when it was on my Land Rover. Anyway, the scale will match the rear tyres and I don't have a weight issue with this build.

The alternative would be to start with hydraulics and a 3 point hitch but I don't have any land to cultivate.

When I start on the trike I will be weighing everything to get it as light as strength will allow, you'll all see a different side to me then.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...Also, the tow hitch I want to use is a little bigger then the one that came with the transaxle, and a lot longer.
> Original green one against the replacement.


I was literally trying to find a second tow hitch in the picture!  I didn't even realize the little one _could_ be a hitch!





Jimdear2 said:


> Yep Todd we all knew he would find somewhere to put a piece of 1/2 inch plate....


I'm not the least bit surprised. All I can do is ! I still can't believe a tractor makes me smile this much! A darn tractor! 




Jimdear2 said:


> ...Hope the front wheels will stay on the ground...


That wouldn't be as much fun! Woody I think you need to find a piece of 2" plate to mount that tow hitch! 

I would probably get in trouble with that tractor. The temptation to hook it up to things and take off to see which one won would be more than I could stand.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I would probably get in trouble with that tractor. The temptation to hook it up to things and take off to see which one won would be more than I could stand.


Todd,

Better watch out. You start talking like that and you'll be out to the tractor pulls soon. Last guy who said that to me ended up disassembling his electric drag bike and used the parts to build an electric Cub Cadet puller and now is building a ultralight puller with a 13 inch GE in it with me.



woodsmith said:


> When I start on the trike I will be weighing everything to get it as light as strength will allow, you'll all see a different side to me then.


Woody,

And I'll probably be looking over you shoulder making my "suggestions" and counting the ounces (grams) with you and being a pain in the a$$ like always.

I have got to get back to work on the big 13 so you can get even with me with some good seggestions.

Hopfully the weather will start to change so I can get back outside. This last month of rain 90 degrees and 80%n humidity has kept me indoors for the whole month.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> Todd,
> 
> Better watch out. You start talking like that and you'll be out to the tractor pulls soon. Last guy who said that to me ended up disassembling his electric drag bike and used the parts to build an electric Cub Cadet puller and now is building a ultralight puller with a 13 inch GE in it with me....


Haha!  Destroying things with Woody's tractor sounds like fun, but put your money on finding me trying to wrinkle the asphalt somewhere. 

It will be fun to watch you switch gears and build a lightweight trike Woody. Talk about a contrast - strong and powerful off-roader, to light and efficient street vehicle! I'll be sitting on the other shoulder balancing Jim's practicality with a little dose of extreme thinking! 

Is it next week yet?


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Haha!  Destroying things with Woody's tractor sounds like fun, but put your money on finding me trying to wrinkle the asphalt somewhere.


Ya, I did my asphalt wrinkleing back in the 60's when it was still fun and before qubic money ruined it for the little guy.

Now I wrinkle dirt and don't have to worry about the big money guys. This sport just confuses those people. Especially when they try it and find out just how hard it is. Art Arfrons I believe is the only one who actually made it. 

I would love to build an electric and go back to drags but even the electrics have the big money guys and then there is the rest of us. How many of us can afford $20,000 batteries from manufacturers that won't even sell batteries to individuals.



toddshotrods said:


> It will be fun to watch you switch gears and build a lightweight trike Woody. Talk about a contrast - strong and powerful off-roader, to light and efficient street vehicle! I'll be sitting on the other shoulder balancing Jim's practicality with a little dose of extreme thinking!


I guess we will have to both keep an eye on him, but I think we are up to it.



toddshotrods said:


> Is it next week yet?


Coming Soon, get your popcorn and sodas ready, warm up the big screen and be ready for the event of the century. Woody is a real trooper and for sure will put on a good show.

Produced By Woody
Directed By Woody
Special Effects By Woody
Camera By Woody
And
Starring WOODY and His Electric Tractor

(Man . . . Woody it better not break on the first run or I'm in trouble. You know somebody will sue me for false advetising)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

This is where it is all fun.

I love the 'irresitable force against the immovable object' thing and have been a huge fan of heavy haulage trucking. None of the 100 ton stuff, mind, more like great feats, like a Scammell 240 ton capacity Contractor moving over 1000 tons on its own.
It is less fun nowadays as they use powered trailers that don't have a bellowing muscular tractor at the front.

I remember many years ago talking to a heavy haulage driver about the limitations of pulling and once we talked through bigger engines, stronger gear boxes, lower ratios, stronger axles, more rubber on the road, it finally came down to pealing back the black top completely off the road. It has happened!

As for my tractor, I will be wanting to see what it will pull and what breaks first. I already know the weak point is going to be either the chain or the little keyed axles poking out of the transaxle. They were intended for a little 50cc petrol engine on 12" diameter tyres!

If the axle goes then I still have that Land Rover axle and Lada Niva transfer box with the potential for four wheel drive. Not forgeting the 12" motor too.

Todd, time to admit it, you are becoming a tractor convert!
Your next project will look something like this:








Or this:










I am taking a day off today to do some paper work and fulfill my job hunting obligations.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

double post eliminated


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...it finally came down to pealing back the black top completely off the road. It has happened!...


To a lesser degree, this happens daily with large trucks on asphalt. I am painfully aware of it because my car has three inches of ground clearance and at intersections where trucks stop and accelerate all day/every day it's like being out on the ocean for me! The asphalt is literally pushed and pulled into large ripples that I can't simply drive over without ripping some critical component from under the car.  The most interesting thing to me is that they continue to resurface them with asphalt. It just seems like common sense would kick in and say, "maybe concrete would be better for about 50-100 feet here!" 






Woodsmith said:


> ...Todd, time to admit it, you are becoming a tractor convert!
> Your next project will look something like this:


ROFL!  Not even close friend, but I am enjoying the show! I'm joking when I say I can't believe I'm smiling for a tractor. I love anything that moves with power, and especially on wheels. I have always been fascinated with extreme 4WD trucks (especially monster trucks) but have never even been tempted to build or own one. I just like seeing them. I'll just live vacariously through you and Jim in this regard.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> ROFL!  Not even close friend, but I am enjoying the show! I'm joking when I say I can't believe I'm smiling for a tractor. I love anything that moves with power, and especially on wheels. I have always been fascinated with extreme 4WD trucks (especially monster trucks) but have never even been tempted to build or own one. I just like seeing them. I'll just live vacariously through you and Jim in this regard.


Hey Woody,

Since Todd plans to live vacariously through you and me, think we should charge admission?

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Hey Woody,
> 
> Since Todd plans to live vacariously through you and me, think we should charge admission?
> 
> Jim


I think that is a great idea! 
Tractor funding!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> Hey Woody,
> 
> Since Todd plans to live vacariously through you and me, think we should charge admission?
> 
> Jim





Woodsmith said:


> I think that is a great idea!
> Tractor funding!


Lol!  Okay, I'll pay up, but if you guys hear the commotion, smell the tire smoke, and come nosing around Hot Rod Lane there will be a small toll at the gate.  Popcorn is 50 bucks a bag and comes only in Extra Salty; drinks start at 5 bucks an ounce!  Barter system available upon request.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

LOL, Todd!

I am close to taking the tractor apart but I decided to rework the parking brake. I really wasn't happy with the bolt in the pulley system as the bolt wasn't up to stopping the tractor if it was moving, or driven, and if I added more strength then I would risk breaking the pulley if the brake went on while it was moving.

So I went back to my original plan of putting a belt on the pulley to act like a band brake.

I made a belt anchor under the back of the chain guard.









The belt covers just over 180deg of the pulley and then is fixed to a lever.
Brake on:









Brake off:









Currently the brake works on a push rod on the lever I already have but I don't have a ratchet for it. I began playing with making one using a section of ring gear from the MR2 flywheel.
I tried to make the ring gear into a sideways arc as that was the only space left so a bit of straightening was needed.









Followed by a bit of bending.









I was thinking about this effect.

















However, I also found a really cheap hand brake lever on Ebay and put in a bid. It will fit better under the seat and allow me to change to a pull rod. That will allow me more tension on the belt.
As it is I can stall the motor in reverse as the belt is pulled against the anchor but in forward the belt pulls against the push rod and it flexes allowing the brake to slacken.

I have also ordered a pair of braided flexible brake lines to be made up to fit between the imperial thread master cylinders and the metric calipers. I am having banjo fittings on the ends as it will allow a tighter 90deg connection making the pipe run both shorter and neater.

I also have the head lights sorted out. I lost the bidding on the neat motor bike lights I saw ages ago but have since found that they are one main one dip which isn't what I want.
I have bought a pair of 65mm diameter foglights to fit in the grille opening. They will be the focal point at the top of the two lobes of the heart shaped opening.
I will also be using a pair of 6" round driving spots mounted on stalks on each side of the grille. I have had these from my first Land Rover back in 1986. I also have a pair of rectangular spots from my first car in 1984 that I will try to see if the look is better.
This shows that not all hoarding is bad.

I will go with having 24v bulbs and no DC-DC converter.
I figure that if I treated each side on its own circuit with the front fog and spot in parallel and then in series with the tail light then that should allow me to have main and dip lights. The brake lights will be in series with each other and the reverse lights will be like wise.
I am using Land Rover tail lights as I have them.








I will have the red ones for stop tail and the white ones for the reverse. No indicators as I can just stick out an arm!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I just got a couple of packages delivered.









A 50V retro meter that will grace the tractor's dash and a pair of clip on DC ammeters, +-100A charging and +-600A starting.

The voltmeter is about 4" diameter overall and has that nice 'mad scientist's laboratory' look about it. All I need are some hefty knife switches and one of those plasma sparky things that Frankenstein has.









The ammeters will be good for testing though the clips at the back need opening up a little to fit over EV size cables. 
To test it I set the parking brake on the tractor and ran the motor gently to see what happens.
The motor slips the brake at about 50A forwards and at just shy of 100A in reverse.
That tells me I need to do some more work on the parking brake to even it up a bit.

I have won the brake lever for £4.50 so I should get that in a couple of days. I can then improve the parking brake effectiveness.
I am also collecting the fog lights today.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Pah!
The front foglights I bought are not fog lights, they are spot lights!
I do wish people would properly describe their items.

However, they are so cheap that it wouldn't be worth the effort to return them so I am going to swap them for the really nice 'projector type' fog lights I have on my car.
I fitted the projector fogs under the back bumper to use as off road reversing lights when pushing the trailer. They are a bit wasted there and so I am going to put the spots under there and use the projector fogs on the tractor.

While I am looking for the finishing touches I came across this switch on the RS Components site.








Absolutley perfect as my reversing switch.
Sadly there is no data on the switch so I can't even tell what sort of switching it has or current capacity. At the worse I will use to switch a relay to drive the reversing contactor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I love that voltmeter! Gives me ideas...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I love that voltmeter! Gives me ideas...


I'm trying to find an ammeter to match. A few weeks ago I saw some old WW2 aircraft ones that were +300A but didn't get them as I wasn't thinking along those lines and didn't want the trouble of finding shunts for them.
Now I would love to be able to get one but can I find one? The best I can manage is either modern ones at 300A or old style ones at 5A!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Going....









Going....









Gone!









Right, now where's that paint brush!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Now we're cooking with fire!  Even though you've actually disassembled it, it still has to feel good to be moving to the next phase and out of the basement shop. It's so easy for projects to get stalled and stuck in limbo, I'm happy to see you move forward. It will be really awesome to see it re-assembled and outside for the first time!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Yeah, It does feel good that it is another major step change. It was also kinda sad too as my creation is now in bits again and I know I won't be able to sit and have a drive for a while.
I should have left it until today as the parking brake lever arrived this morning and I could have sorted out the fitting. As it is I will do it with part assembly and scope for adjustment. The pull rod will need a relay crank in it to clear the transaxle but that is fairly easy to make up afterwards.

I have decided on a colour for the chassis and metal bits.

Satin black!

I looked a loads of tractors and they are all bright and glossy in red, blue, green, grey, yellow, etc.
However, unlike other tractors, I am not showing off the 'beefy' chassis and transmission. I want the attention on the bodywork. So, of all the possible muted colours, I decided on a non shiny black.
It also won't show any imperfections so I won't need to grind back and fill all of the welds to make it look right.
Coincidentally the rear wheels are already satin black so I won't need to paint them.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I have decided on a colour for the chassis and metal bits.
> 
> Satin black!...


I really, really, like that! I was hoping you would go with something low key on the chassis and make the wood pop, and you can use any variety and finish you want on it. Satin black is awesome because it hides the details in plain site. The woodwork will be center stage, but for those who are interested the details of what makes it all work will be there in full detail - layer after of layer of awesome fabrication! Perfect Woody.





Woodsmith said:


> ...It also won't show any imperfections...


You might want to do some testing to figure what will and won't show. That satin black hides imperfections is a bit of a myth. In hot rods, the black primer cars are actually among the most difficult to make look right because a lot of things you wouldn't expect show through.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Wood stain it LOL! Black will show off all the wood you are going to use... Right?

Remember to post the first video of yourself driving down the street with all the neighbors (pitchforks in hand ) chasing you!

Next move, since it broke down so easy, is to make a kit --- ...

Nice work!!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I really, really, like that! I was hoping you would go with something low key on the chassis and make the wood pop, and you can use any variety and finish you want on it. Satin black is awesome because it hides the details in plain site. The woodwork will be center stage, but for those who are interested the details of what makes it all work will be there in full detail - layer after of layer of awesome fabrication! Perfect Woody.





Dave Koller said:


> Wood stain it LOL! Black will show off all the wood you are going to use... Right?


Yes, that is sort of what I was thinking, it is a good back ground colour without being matt. I have used satin black on a Land Rover in the past, satin black and fluorescent orange, and the effect is good, it made the orange stand out even more.



toddshotrods said:


> You might want to do some testing to figure what will and won't show. That satin black hides imperfections is a bit of a myth. In hot rods, the black primer cars are actually among the most difficult to make look right because a lot of things you wouldn't expect show through.


I'm not too fussed about most of it, the flat parts are fairly flat, but the deep dark corners where the welding is a bit rough won't show so much. Black is a tough one to use as shiny black shows every panel ripple and white doesn't. Matt black shows every surface imperfection in the paint as it still reflects quite well. It also grabs dirt. Satin in a good compromise.



Dave Koller said:


> Remember to post the first video of yourself driving down the street with all the neighbors (pitchforks in hand ) chasing you!


As soon as it is reassembled and I have the throttle and brakes working it will be difficult not to keep driving it about.
I will try and get some video of it moveing more then 2' each way.



Dave Koller said:


> Next move, since it broke down so easy, is to make a kit --- ...
> 
> Nice work!!!


Ahhh, now there's a thought.
I already have a small too box that I am using to hold just the few tools needed to reassemble it. Two of each 10mm, 13mm, 14mm, 17mm, 19mm spanners and one 11mm spanner and very few sockets.

I will see if I can think 'kit' with the trike.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A sea of red oxide!









I painted as much as I could, if I get the chance I will turn everythign over and paint the undersides tomorrow. I won't mind giving it an extra day to properly harden though.

I think I will need to set up some hooks on the ceiling to hang parts from as I paint the top coat.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I tried a bit of the satin paint.
Where it is good it looked like powder coat, where it wasn't so good will hopefully not show.

I do need to make sure the red oxide is properly cured though as where I tried it on recently dry red it looked wet and some of the red showed through.
So no more painting for a while.

I have now recieved the Land Rover Defender pedal from Simon Rafferty.
It is a neat little unit. Lots of pins in the plug and I may have to try and find a connector for it. I have identified two pins that give 1.5ohm to 5.45kohm so I think that should be good enough.
The pedal only moves through about 30deg so it should be a good fit on the tractor and on future projects.









The mounting is easy, three 8mm holes straight through the back of the pivot bracket. There is a plastic spacer to allow clearance for the tangs on the torsion springs and for the end of the pedal to protrude. I guess it could be dispensed with if it was mounted on a bracket with suitable holes in.









The pins are in two rows, one row with 4 pins and one with 5 pin. The top pair of pins on their own are the ones I am going to use as shown by the pencil marks on the side of the pot.









You can see how narrow it is with just the pot sticking out on the right side









Here you can see the mounting holes.

I made a plate to mount it on the side of the tractor chassis. I am mounting it so that the pivot and the pedal rubber are horizontal and level with the top of the chassis rail with the pivot ahead of the rubber.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

My brake lines have arrived!









When I ordered them from Llama4x4.com I was asked what colour I wanted after discussing the variety of end fittings.
I mistakenly figured that the end fittings were coloured and the hose was standard stainless braid. So I decided on red fittings.

Actually I am happy with red pipes, differentiates them from black cables.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I started assembling some of the painted parts to the chassis today, still in the workshop but nothing that will make it too heavy to take outside.

The Brakes are fiddly to fit so that seemed an obvious workshop assembly. I also fitted the throttle pedal too. It was a bit difficult to judge the best position for it without a seat for reference so I took a best guess for comfort by straddling the chassis with my heels on the pegs.

It looks a little forward but means that I can work it with the toe of my boot but also not stand on it when getting on and off the tractor.

















Nothing left to do now except make sure the rest of the paint is fully cured and then I can take it outside.

I had a bit of a problem with the black having a hint of red from the primer but that was only on the first coat.
I have painted the brake calipers red to match the brake pipes, that will be my only bit of 'bling'!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The tractor is now out of the basement workshop and in the back of my box trailer.
Carpeted luxury!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have built up the tractor outside today. I won't bore you all with lots of assembly photos, most weren't that clear anyway.
But here are a few.

Looks very small and bare.









I fitted some 'carrots' over the controller cables to cover the terminals.









And also fitted the voltmeter onto the temporary dash. I am so tempted to find similar ones for the trike, I love the genuine retro-ness of it.









Plumbing for the brakes. The pipes were 1.3m and 1.4 meters long. However, once I fitted them one way I found I needed to swap the pipes left to right as the lengths didn't sit well the way they were intended.
I decided to use some 40mm waste pipe as conduits to house all the pipe and cables.

















I love the red brakes!









As you can see, I don't have much of a driveway! Makes you wonder what I am going to do with a tractor on it!

Dad was still laying the cobbles beside me as I was building up the tractor.









It is now in the trailer.









Things were not so good with the brakes. I will need to change the brake pedals as the lever is too long at the cylinder end. Even standing on the pedal has too little effect on slowing it down. The pedal is about a 2:1 leverage at the foot pad and I can raise that to 3:1 if I shorten the cylinder end. I don't think it will be enough though so I may need to move the pivot backwards and lengthen the pedal as well.

Driving into the trailer was an experience too. I used two old fire doors as ramps and the tractor romped up easily. However, there isn't enough headroom for me to stay sitting on the seat so part way up I needed to get off, still with my foot hard on the brakes and Dad pushing, to chock the wheels. I could then slowly remote drive it in on the hand throttle. The steering wheel only clears if I use ramps to keep the rear wheels low as the steering wheel eases in. Not sure how it will reverse out if I can't get on the brakes. I do have a winch set up inside so that may help.
I will have to make up proper ramps for it.

I have yet to fit the hand brake lever. I tried drilling it to bolt in but the steel is hardened so I will need to fabricate something to weld on to it. That will be another day.

For now, I will need to start working on a seat and also wire up the throttle pedal as soon as I get a connector plug for it.


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## albano (Jan 12, 2009)

Well done on your project Woody, It good to see someone like you start the project and finish. Try and use some wiring sleeve instead of insulating tape, it will look a lot neater. 
Hope you will have a lot of fun with it and show us some video of yourself riding it.


Albano (SA)


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I found a guy on ebay (chinese i suspect) selling volt and amp meters who has a bunch of retro looking stuff. I'll try and dig out the link. Love those old girling master cylinders

thats a hell of a project. fabing everyting from scratch. well done!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Looking good buddy. . .

Suggestions for the brakes, you are going to need a minimum 4 or 5 to 1 ratio. 

First step;
Cut off the pedals pads at the last 90 degree bend and rotate them 90 degreed up and weld them back on so the part you cut off is verticle. This move the pedal so you are taking advantage of the total length if the pedal arm.

Second step;
Move the masters as low as you can on the pivot arm. From my vantige point here, it looks like you can get at least a 5 to 1. 

As soon as I can I'll get a picture of the Wilwood Brake pedal set up on my buddies tractor i'll sen it to you, but to the best of my rememberance the pedal ratio is around 8 or so to one. I think if you can get 5 to one you will be OK.

I have a very similar set up on the Something Different using VW Rabbit front calipers and similar masters. I can stop it even at 1300 lbs. but I can't lock the wheels. Part of the trouble is the diameter of the caliper piston is almost 4 times the master piston piston size. I have about a 3.5 to 4 to 1 ration on the different. 

In one of your photos I see a big gap between the pads and the disc. Make sure the caliper, isn't one of those low drag set up where the piston backs way out. If that is the case you are moving a lot of fluid just to get the pads into contact with the discs.

There are formulas that allow you to work this out but you know about my math difficulties, I go glassy eyed at more then 1 plus 1. Try looking them up, maybe the Wikipedia.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks guys, I couldn't have done it without all of your support and all the general help and information on the forum.



albano said:


> Well done on your project Woody, It good to see someone like you start the project and finish. Try and use some wiring sleeve instead of insulating tape, it will look a lot neater.
> Hope you will have a lot of fun with it and show us some video of yourself riding it.
> 
> 
> Albano (SA)


Yes, that is a good idea. I was trying to use what I had where I could and I have buckets full of insulating tape of all colours. I have been thinking of some of that braided sleeve to give a retro cable effect. I will see if I can find the stuff in a colour I like



jackbauer said:


> I found a guy on ebay (chinese i suspect) selling volt and amp meters who has a bunch of retro looking stuff. I'll try and dig out the link. Love those old girling master cylinders
> 
> thats a hell of a project. fabing everyting from scratch. well done!


I would be interested in that link, thanks. I would like a similar 3-400A ammeter for the tractor and a 100V voltmeter and 5-600A ammeter for the trike in the same retro look. If I can't find any I may have to use modern meters and put false fronts on.



Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Looking good buddy. . .
> 
> ...


I'll try that and see how much I can get out of it. I am sure with a bit of reworking I should be able to get something good enough without resorting to compound linkages or, worse, a pair of servos and a vacuum pump!




Jimdear2 said:


> In one of your photos I see a big gap between the pads and the disc. Make sure the caliper, isn't one of those low drag set up where the piston backs way out. If that is the case you are moving a lot of fluid just to get the pads into contact with the discs.


I hadn't pressured the system at that point so the calipers were wide open for fitting. They close up nice and snug with just a bit of drag.
I had managed to bleed one circuit, locked off the nipple and then topped up the reserviour. Then I pressed the pedal and, just closing the calipers, emptied the reservoir so I had to bleed it again.
So quick and easy to bleed though, great being able to have a hand at both ends of the system and still watch both the bleed pipe and the reserviour.

It occured to me that it will probably take me all year to bed in the brakes!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Now that it is outside - and the neighbors are peering - mount the machine gun turret on the front - 

Nice job the Trike will be a "piece of cake" for you now !


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Here ya go:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/High-Quality-...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563e42e2d6

Have a search under "meters" in his shop for what you need.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I would have gladly paid admission to see you hopping off and remotely guiding the tractor in the trailer! If these teaching, woodworking, EV-ing, things don't pan out, maybe you should consider a career as a stunt double.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks for that jack, I have been having a look at their stuff. Not quite the same but close enough for it not to matter greatly. I wouldn't mind too much about not matching on the tractor but I would get matching sets for the trike.

Dave, The trike won't be that easy, have you seen what Todd drew for me in the trike thread?


I couldn't be a stunt anything, Todd, too much self preservation. My Mum asked why I didn't just duck down and carry on driving the tractor in the trailer! I just didn't fancy rackin my back withthe door frame or crushing it as my finger slips on the throttle pot.

Right, I am going to have to get some more building work done on the house while I to ponder how make a few changes to the tractor brakes.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Two things came to mind while I was reading through the posts.

On your brakes either a smaller caliper piston bore or a liger master bore will help.

Does your controller have a half power input. My Alltrax has a terminal that is used when reversing either with a transmission or the motor. By powering that terminal (it's called half speed reverse) it cuts the power in half. It makes tight manuvering a breeze. I have mine on a toggle switch. I use it when backing to the sled or when a kid or newby tries the tractor. I also use it when loading onto the trailer.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Two things came to mind while I was reading through the posts.
> 
> On your brakes either a smaller caliper piston bore or a liger master bore will help.


Other way round I think.
I did think of that but then it is more cost that I will defer to after I have tried re making the pedals. I might struggle with larger caliper pistons as space is tight but I might be able to find smaller bore masters.



Jimdear2 said:


> Does your controller have a half power input. My Alltrax has a terminal that is used when reversing either with a transmission or the motor. By powering that terminal (it's called half speed reverse) it cuts the power in half. It makes tight manuvering a breeze. I have mine on a toggle switch. I use it when backing to the sled or when a kid or newby tries the tractor. I also use it when loading onto the trailer.
> 
> Jim


In theory it has a 15% throttle limit for use with certain programmes when used as a pedestrian controlled vehicle. However, though it is programmable I have no instructions on how to programme it without using a Curtis programmer. The manual says it can be done but doesn't explain beyond 'here's how to do it with a programmer'.

For remote control I was thinking of getting a multi turn pot, maybe 5:1, and limiting it to one turn.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Woodsmith,

Brake Pedal ratio

Here in Godzone we have the Bible AKA - The New Zealand Hobby Car Technical Manual

QUOTE (page 8-11)
In the case of non boosted systems 
(1) no less than 5 :1
(2) no more than 7 : 1

There is an expansion that says with a light weight vehicle 4 : 1 might be OK

They are not anal about it - if it works its OK - but this was written by New Zealand car enthusiasts so it is good numbers to start with


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Those numbers are useful, Duncan. I think I have got up to the 7:1 end of the scale now.

I decided to combine shortening the lever at the cylinder end and then adding a second link as a multiplier.









You can see from the other side that the lever from the pedal pivot is now very short and that now works on an adjustable pull rod onto a 2:1 lever pivoted on a frame bolted above the master cylinders.









The return springs are a big snug but it shouldn't be too much of a problem.









I also decided to tackle the throttle pedal. A bit of loom and a plug arrived for it today. I tried it but nothing happened and the controller flashes throttle fault.

I removed the throttle and checked the readings again. After a few more trys and checks I discovered that my £1.99 multimeter that was Dad's left over stock wasn't reading right.
I had to set it to 20k and it quite happily read something low and flickery at one end and 5.6k at the other end. What I didn't realise was that it didn't read low ohms accurately unless I then switched it down to 200ohms and the 20ohms.
Testing with my quality DMM it told me that it was about 2k to 5.7k so no good.

I toyed wi thte idea of doing something else with the pedal and the MR2 throttle TPS but then decided that as the TD5 pot was scrap I might as well open it up and have a look inside.
It has 3 resistance tracks, three wiper tracks, three wipers and three resistances.
I found one track that was 5k, great. Unfortunately the only way it was connected to the pins was via a wiper track that had a 2k resistance in line.
I decided to 'hotwire' it and so I soldered a wire from the pin to the wiper.









I then checked it and found that the pedal at rest didn't allow the wiper to hit zero so I set about adding more range of movement both inside the pot and in the pedal.
I had to grind away a bit of the pedal so that it stopped higher when the pot read zero.









Great stuff. I now have a 5k throttle pot that goes from zero!
I put it back on the tractor and...

...Still no go.
Long story short, with a lot of messing about and fine tuning I discovered that I had rebuilt the pot to work from 0-5k and the controller wants 5k-0.

So I had another play with the insides of the pot and manage to get a set of connections that allows me to have 5k-0. Of course, now the pedal didn't have enough travel at the other end of the pot. It means that I now have 5k-0.7k so I can't get full throttle.
Anyway, not having full throttle isn't a problem for the time being and as I left the work shop at midnight it can wait to morning.
I will just have to grind away a bit more of the pedal at the full throttle end of its stop.

So now it is left in the vice.









I have bought a second TD5 pedal and cable for the trike thinking it would be fine. I will now have to do all these mods again.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Those numbers are useful, Duncan. I think I have got up to the 7:1 end of the scale now.
> 
> I decided to combine shortening the lever at the cylinder end and then adding a second link as a multiplier.


 
Woody,

Does the name Rube Goldberg mean anything to you. WoW . . . is all I can say. 

I knew you would find a way . . . but WoW 

I'll bet it stops good now though.



Woodsmith said:


> also decided to tackle the throttle pedal. A bit of loom and a plug arrived for it today. I tried it but nothing happened and the controller flashes throttle fault.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I have bought a second TD5 pedal and cable for the trike thinking it would be fine. I will now have to do all these mods again.


Just so you know, most controllers can have the throttle input changed to one of several selections. Depending on the controller you get to use on the trike you might not have to reverse it.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had to Google Rube Goldberg, Heath Robinson springs to mind.

Just the weight of the brake pedals, before I put the return springs back on, were enough to apply enough brakes to stop me being able to push the tractor.
I had a quick measure and I seem to have about 4:1 on the pedal and then a 2:1 multiplier on that link so a good 8:1 and no need for servo assist!



My Curtis should be able to cope with 0-5k, 5k-0, 20k-20k, 5v-0, 10v-0 and so on. I would just need to buy a £470 programmer for it and I can have it any way I want.
I just don't want to spend the money on the programmer, unless I end up having a fleet of EVs all with Curtis controllers.

I would still need to mod the throttle pot as it doesn't have a 0-5k or a 5k-0 anywhere on the pin outs without that hot wire link and extending the pedal travel.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I had to Google Rube Goldberg, Heath Robinson springs to mind.
> 
> Just the weight of the brake pedals, before I put the return springs back on, were enough to apply enough brakes to stop me being able to push the tractor.
> I had a quick measure and I seem to have about 4:1 on the pedal and then a 2:1 multiplier on that link so a good 8:1 and no need for servo assist!.


Hey can I send my brake system from the Something Different tractor to you to be reworked.

All I can say is WoW 



Woodsmith said:


> My Curtis should be able to cope with 0-5k, 5k-0, 20k-20k, 5v-0, 10v-0 and so on. I would just need to buy a £470 programmer for it and I can have it any way I want.
> I just don't want to spend the money on the programmer, unless I end up having a fleet of EVs all with Curtis controllers.
> 
> I would still need to mod the throttle pot as it doesn't have a 0-5k or a 5k-0 anywhere on the pin outs without that hot wire link and extending the pedal travel.


Isn't there a Curtis dealer around that could reprogram it for you and charge a nominal fee? Maybe a golf cart shop?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Isn't there a Curtis dealer around that could reprogram it for you and charge a nominal fee? Maybe a golf cart shop?


That's a point.
I shall have to look around and see. Golf's not my thing so I have never really noticed any shops.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I finally finished the throttle pedal.

Having increased the pedal travel in both directions I then needed to adjust the position of the pedal on the chassis. All I did was to elongate one of the two mounting holes and allow the bracket to pivot.

At the same time I found that all my work to get the pot to work from 5k-0 was partly wasted. The throttle doesn't produce any controller response until it is at 4.7k, best part of 20mm pedal movement, so I readjusted the pedal rest position so that it now sits at about 4.75k at the start.

Only thing left is the parking brake lever to fit but I have a mirgraine developing so I will call it a day for now.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Here is a link to a place with 16 inch real tractor tires. Someday when you are rich and famous you can buy a set. The actual reason I am sending you this is so you have an outside diameter of these tires when you build your fenders.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-7-16-John-Dee...emZ220577365969QQcategoryZ63988QQcmdZViewItem

Getting real close to that first drive down the street. Popcorn, beverage and recliner are all ready.

Hope your headache goes away.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Haha, Jim, I have a set already but at 6.00 16. As new condition and only £5 on ebay. I have had then a little while but as the truck tyres are on and they look wide and chunky I thought I'd leave the agri tyres until I could find a second set of rims.

The truck tyres are 285 75 16 and stand 31" tall and 11 1/4" wide so if my fenders fit them the agri tyres will easily fit and be lost in them.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Great, like you said you should look for anothe set of 16 inch wheels so you can switch as needed.

As I've said before"It never hurts to be sure"

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Here's a photo of the throttle pedal fitted.
I know I have used another load of insulation tape but it's free.









I also decided to fit the Land Rover ignition switch and steering lock to the steering column and also the main contactor and precharge resistor.

I decided to use the full fucntions of the ignition switch and have wired it so that when it is turned to the first position I have low current power available for lights and accessories and the second, starter, position is used to energise the main contactor with a latching circuit.

















So now if I click the key to starter I get a loud 'thunk' and the main and reversing contactors click in and the controller lights up. If I turn the key off, break the big red key isolator switch, blow a controller fuse or have any other power failure then the main contactor unlatches and everything shuts down.

It feels good having to use the extra turn to make the controller and high current circuits live, better then everything live at the first turn of the key.

As I can't work on the tractor now except for inside the trailer and as it is a bit dark in there I decided it is time to make some ramps.
I worked out from my steel stock pile that I had just enough 2" x 1/8" angle to make two 5' x 15" ramp frames. They are painted and drying at the moment. I will need to cut some plywood sheet to fit in them and tomorrow I should be able to roll the tractor back out again.

The 5' ramps give a good angle for the tractor to get in but also I can tilt the trailer backwards and have an even lower entry angle for transporting the trike. It means that I will need to make sure the trike is less then 10' overall length and I will have to make a simple bridging piece to fill the gap between the two ramps.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Here is a photo of the ramps. They will have a plywood board set into them for the time being and maybe in the future I will replace with hard wood for more strength and longevity.









While the paint was drying I set to with a remote throttle.
I used a stereo headphones 1/4" jack socket as it has a built in DPDT switch operated by inserting the plug.
This allows me to disconnect the foot throttle when the remote throttle is used. I have stuck with the slider pot for now as it feels right in one hand and managed to find a nice curly lead for it.









As it got dark I eventually figured where the parking brake lever will sit. With a lot of experimenting it is now bolted to the top of the brake cylinder frame. I can now make up a linkage, with a relay crank, to the band brake actuator at the back.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Some good news and some bad news.

Good news:
I have video of me, and my Dad, driving the tractor about in first gear. second was a bit too fast and bouncy on the cobbles and there is no padding on the seat.

Me:


Dad:


Bad news:
While playing and falling about laughing with silly EV grins I managed to get a clunk from the transaxle. I think a tooth has broken off.
I will need to see if anything comes out with the oil and look for a stronger replacement one.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

OK - first is MY picture of the wood ramps that remove (and weigh a ton!) for my Ev BEFORE conversion - Second, I opted to download your father's video, as he and I have Grey hair and beards ... Now it is no feat to download a video it takes about an hour on dialup - BUT it was worth HIS - proud of son - EV grin......

IT was terrific !! And I noted the speed of the Road OFF OF the Cobble stone street! -- Sorry about the "Clunk" - I wonder .....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Dave.

I haven't seen Dad have so much active fun for ages. He was really enjoying himself and looked so disapointed when something broke.

I do think it is probably a missing tooth somewhere. I don't know if it is worth fixing. I will see if the bits drain out with the oil and then see how it runs again. Run gently it might be ok for a bit.
I will work on a stronger replacement given the little Ransomes axle was only supposed to turn 15" diameter tyres on a push mower and I have more then double that.

I was thinking of using the 2CV transaxle mounted in a rigid cradle with Land Rover hubs and wheels. The motor can then drive through a chain drive to get the ratio low enough. Even in 1st gear it will still be faster then I have now.


That main road is fast, supposed to be 30mph but often illegally at 40 or more.

You ramps are prettier then mine. Mine now have a bit of dirty ply previously used in shuttering concrete.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

WRT lights, I know my dad always used to use a "spot" light on the passenger side, angled as a "Kerb finder", and a "flood" light on the driver side for general illumination for his foglights, and he used to make sure he mounted them below the bumper, to try and cut the glare (As well as having the foglight switch turn off the high beams). Unfortunately, switching off the high beams when the front foglights come on is (now) illegal, which means in foggy conditions you get nothing but a face full of glare from the high beams.

But then, this is in England, where headlight beams are specifically focused (and tested) to stop glare on all vehicles, instead of merely having the height of the bulb dictated (And then only on cars, and not trucks).

Since coming to Canada, I can't understand how people drive at night without being constantly blinded by badly-adjusted (or just plain obnoxious, filling the entirety of the window) headlights. I dread to think what adding foglights to the mix would do.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Just killing time and went to eBay UK. I found this tractor so we know that Wheelhorse did export to the UK.

This is the transmission (or one like it) you want. It has an automotive 5 on 4 1/4 inch wheel bolt pattern it has 3 forward and reverse (there were 4 speed versions as well). They were mounted to bent 1/4 flat steel frames so the mounting points are simple.

This is a side winder trans, but on the wrong side for your tractor.

Actually I can't beleive what they are selling this tractor for. Fifty years old and probably works better then most new ones and will still be working in fifty more if it is taken care of. It's mostly thick steel or cast iron.

You need to find something like this, with a bad engine and in run down condition so it sells cheap. The transmissions were pretty much bullet proof. 

Sorry to be ragging on you, I'm just stuck inside today and maybe tomorrow, bad air days.

Jim

But watch for something like this.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You mean this one, Jim?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wheelhorse-Co...w-/320574988821?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL

It is affordable and not too far away so I am now watching it. I need to see if I can afford it right now though.

Thank you.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Whoops !!!!!

Link??? What link ???? Oh that link

Yes, that is a realy nice old tractor.

I really didn't mean for you to buy this one, just look for one like it that is being retired to that old lawn in the sky. All you need is the transaxle to fix yours. 

I don't think I told you how impressed I was on how it turned out. Watching that vid of you and your dad riding on it and seeing how well all of the stuff you did worked made me feel good.

I felt so bad that the trans was not strong enough. It was very late in the build that you mentioned that it qriginally had a 50 cc engine. I had hoped that it was really over engineered and would hold up.

Jim



Woodsmith said:


> You mean this one, Jim?
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wheelhorse-Co...w-/320574988821?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL
> 
> It is affordable and not too far away so I am now watching it. I need to see if I can afford it right now though.
> ...


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## umurali2000 (May 3, 2010)

your presentation of shaft making too good. by the way which motor you are using? have you finalized the specifications?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

umurali2000 said:


> your presentation of shaft making too good. by the way which motor you are using? have you finalized the specifications?


I'm using a Club Car 3.1hp motor from a golf buggy.

Given I broke it the specifications will change a little now. Possible replacement transmission from a garden tractor or I might make something from the parts I have.


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## TractorFan1407 (Feb 25, 2009)

That's a cracking looking tractor, what speed can it do?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

TractorFan1407 said:


> That's a cracking looking tractor, what speed can it do?


Thank you. 

Well, I intended it to run around 7mph in low and 12mph in high. From having a play in high it seems to be getting to around 20mph or so at half/threequarter throttle. I was speed limited by trying not to get bounced out of the seat on the cobbles.


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## TractorFan1407 (Feb 25, 2009)

Is it safe at that speed? does it need a roll bar? or am I missing the point of the thrill!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

TractorFan1407 said:


> Is it safe at that speed? does it need a roll bar? or am I missing the point of the thrill!!


Ummm, its a toy, a plaything, a platform for learning about EVs. It doesn't, at this stage need to be 'safe' in that sense.

The brakes are really sharp, the steering works well, the nut behind the wheel knows not to be reckless.

I could add a roll bar that would add more weight high up in a tall and narrow vehicle and will significantly increase the chance of it being needed.

Besides, it wouldn't fit in the trailer if it had a roll bar!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I found this on Ebay.
It is a club car trans axle.

Any thoughts as to suitability as a replacement axle for the tractor, or similar next project?

I can't as yet find any 'tractor' transaxles.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I found this on Ebay.
> It is a club car trans axle.
> 
> Any thoughts as to suitability as a replacement axle for the tractor, or similar next project?
> ...


 
Woody,

That unit should work out with a bit of work, you would probably need to narrow it and the broken parts would not be used anyway. You would most likely pull the split sheaves variable ratio set up and go with chain drive. As long as you can get along with a single speed it should do OK. The ones I have seen disassembled use an automotive style ring and pinion around 6 or 8 or so to 1 reduction. There are also planetary style diffs in these things. I would still like to see you with a cast iron multi gear "real" transaxle. 

I went on UK eBay and found two tractors a simplicity and a wheel horse. both from the 1970s so they are the good ones. Both were complete and both were cheap under 300 pounds unfortunatly the internet dropped out as I was sending and I lost it all. The net is so slow tonight I just can't face doing the search again.

Another option is look for small engine/lawnmower repair shops. They almost always have junkers and parts units in the back. Over here it is often a retirement keep busy type of thing.

Keep on trying,
jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'll keep on looking, Jim.

There is a chap on Ebay who seems to be a wheel horse breaker. He used to have a couple of decent transaxles before I needed one. I do keep checking his stock but he is also nearly 200 miles away, as are a few of the other cheap tractors.

The internet is really playing up here now.
I can surf this forum but nothing else works.
Google and Ebay are both off line even Bing, AOL, yahoo and hotmail aren't working.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I bought an axle.
Don't know if it is really strong enough, only 3 speeds and reverse, but it was cheap and comes with wheels.
Check the price!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280569785902&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I bought an axle.
> Don't know if it is really strong enough, only 3 speeds and reverse, but it was cheap and comes with wheels.
> Check the price!
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280569785902&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


Woody,

Price is right for sure, if it won't do for the tractor it for sure would do for a sidewalk or yard cart. Something you can build and sell. You have almost enough pieces laying around to build a drive train. I nice retro wooden body, it would be a for sure money maker. 

I don't want to be a downer but I think you will find that this axle is a bit too light for the tractor you built. This is from what is known as a lawn tractor. Garden tractors are much more strongly built and will have axles with flanges and bolt on wheels. 

Most likely this has 6, 8 or 10 inch wheels that are located by either 2 snap rings on the shafts or a shoulder on the inner side and a bolt and washer on the outside. Both will drive the wheel with a keyway in the axle shaft.

I'm sure you could make it fit and work on your tractor but putting this in would be like putting a trans out of a MG miget (or some other light vehicle) into a V8 powered Land Rover and then expect to go off roading.

Keep looking.
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Yeah, I haven't seen it yet, picking it up on Monday but for the starting price of 99p I couldn't resist sticking in a £5 bid on it. I can weigh it in for scrap and get a profit!

I figured it would be a bit light but couldn't tell how light. One of the problems is that I am running 32" tyres and that is much bigger then many of the tractors and mowers that I have seen. That just leads to breaking gears as I have found.
The axle on that 13" forklift motor will be a bit too big so I am again thinking of the Lada transfer box and the Land Rover axle that I have. I could even go 4x4 then.

I might be able to make a little 'go-kart', with that mower axle, for Dad to play with.
A bit like this but meaner looking :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330479120725&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I might be able to make a little 'go-kart', with that mower axle, for Dad to play with.


Yah, we know . . . make a cart for Dad . . . sure we know Woody <wink - wink> Just something for him to run down to the market

We know, sure sure <wink> Something for Dad to play around with <wink>. You just wouldn't have time to fool with once it's built, much too busy. 

Although that transaxle you got may be too light for the Tractor Thingy you could probably have a lot of fun building something else with it. Look at what that guy is selling for start bid of 70 pounds, a half finished only kind of working cart. 

One big problem with that Murrey transaxle is that top input pulley, it means the motor has to go verticle or you have to do a twisted belt.

I had an idea, look for farm auctions near enough for you to drive to. you might just find a decent transaxle garden tractor or walk behind tractor hiding behind hay bales out in the barn. I used to work part time as a auctioneers ring man, you wouldn't believe some of the things we would find.

Still think that cast iron side winder transaxles are your best bet for what you have built. Sears Suburban and Simplicity are two more names that come to mind.

Be well,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dad is definately keen on a little go-kart to play with, honestly, it will be for him to play with though I may have a little go until the tractor is working again.

I have found these two but they are 250 miles away.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHEEL-HORSE-R...arden_GardenPowerTools_CA&hash=item1e5eb3338f
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHEEL-HORSE-8...arden_GardenPowerTools_CA&hash=item43a251a388
The cheap one would be worth going for if it stays cheap.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Dad is definately keen on a little go-kart to play with, honestly, it will be for him to play with though I may have a little go until the tractor is working again.
> I have found these two but they are 250 miles away.


For myself I would make the first guy a offer of maybe 40 or 50 pounds. and see if you could settle for less then 75. It is worth it.

If you can get this one, think about this, when you pull the Wheel Horse transaxle out for the Tractor Thingy you would now have a place to put that Murrey's transaxle you have coming. Then pull the small motor out of the TT and use it in the leftover Wheel Horse and Murrey pieces. I bet your Dad wouldn't object to a TT jr. That 9 inch motor would make the TT awsome.

It looks like the guy selling the first frame, in the middle picture it looks he may have some left over body parts and steering parts, ask if they go also



Woodsmith said:


> The cheap one would be worth going for if it stays cheap.


I don't think that one will stay cheap. It should go for 3 or 4 hundred USD over here where they are fairly common. This was a preimum tractor over here in it's day. It is a later model with the 4 speed trans with a hi-lo range box (the other was an early model 3 speed, which is probably better for electric.). 

If you were to get it you would probably want to pull and sell the ICE (should be worth a hundred at least if it's a Kolher) and put one of your motors in it's place. A little work and paint and you could have a real nice electric Wheel Horse. 

At least you have found some. If these don't work out

KEEP LOOKING,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I think you are right, Jim.
If I get that 13" sorted out then I will throw him an offer. Both the Wheelhorse and the 13" are in the same end of the country and it would be worth me getting the trailer down there to collect both at the same time.

Cheers.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, Jim, I have bought both the Wheelhorse rolling chassis and the 13" motor.

I guess at some point soon we can start pulling our respective land masses closer together!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Wonderful.

Since winter is coming I'm going to assume you will be staying with the trike for now.

I wish you had more workspace so you could work on them in parallel.

Can't wait to see the inside of that 13 inch motor and drive. I hope it's layed out like I think so you can use the internal gearing to get the additional reduction you need for a direct drive setup on the trike.

Once you get the Wheel Horse transaxle in hand I think you will see just how easy it is going to be to use it. I don't know if it will be easier to flip the motor or use a jackshaft since the input is on the other side. I think you will be able to still use your disc brakes and wheel adapters as well with suitable modification.

Once the Wheel Horse is off the chassis you should have no trouble putting the Murrey on the remains.

When you go to pick up the Wheel Horse see if the guy still has any of the body, and steering wheel and shaft.

Lots of pictures,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I picked up the baby axle today and also got a set of 'balloon' front wheels and tyres thrown in and also an Indespension axle just right for making the skeletal trailer for the tractor or just £10.
A good bargain.

Things are progressing fast.
I am driving 230 miles tomorrow morning to pick up the Forklift axle and 13" motor from South London and then 60 miles onwards into Kent to pick up the Wheelhorse.
Then home.
It will be a long day and I have just been outside in the dark rewireing a new trailer socket to the back of my car. The old one was full of aluminium corrosion, literally stuffed full of white powder.
At least I had a spare new one, also aluminium, so I painted the inside and then sprayed silicone spray all over it.

I will get photos of it all during the day. Too dark to photograph anything at the moment.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Have a safe drive


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers, Jim.

Missed the question from earlier.
I will probably work more on the trike but as the tractor is in the trailer I can do some work in there. I will have to rig up some low voltage lights inside.

I am also planning a temporary car port where I can build up the trike outside but I can also use it to work on the tractor until the trike is ready.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Sounds Like a plan.

Are you going to get rid of the MR2 to free up some space?

If you do check out some of the temporary shelters/garage in a box. I have 2 for storage, Michele's 87 firebird is in one we have had for 15 - 16 years. Made in China, its small, the car just fits but it has a solid frame, needs a new cover every 3 or 4 years. The other is a US made unit, 12 x 20 and big enough to work in. I store 3 pulling tractors and a garden tractor plus a lot of parts it's very nice.

Just a thought.
Jim


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Love my garage-in-a-box!!

Think I put a pic on here somewhere.

I added foam water-pipe covers and ran an extra silver tarp over the top and one on the floor to prevent condensation from cold... Mine was 289 at Menards and 30 bucks for the tarps... I even built a floor in it... Darn I thought it was on the forum some place.....

If I can't find it I will take a picture tomorrow....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Garage in a box?
I must look that up and see if I can use one.

Well, no photos tonight, too tired, will sort them out when I can.

All I will say is this.

I set out at 7.30am and arrived back home at 3am.
I drove 607miles, averaged 50mpg, sat in the the car for 13 hours, spent 1.5 hours visiting a friend for a cup of tea before heading home.

I now have an 11" motor on a forklift axle, plus two wheels to fit the axle, the axle mounts cut off the truck and a 6" unidirectional steering pump motor all thrown in for free.
I also have the Wheelhorse rolling chassis with steering column and steering wheel.

Added to that I have a broken trailer.

My fault, bad temporary engineering that wasn't completed and then forgotten about and resulted in fatigue failure of the welds holding the drawbar (tongue) to the trailer.
I found it failing at my 100mile trailer check when I was checking load security and wheel bearings. Drove the next 200 miles, slowly, using 5 ton ratchet straps to hold it all together. That is almost all that is holding it together when I parked up on my drive.

Stressful and exhausting doesn't come close.
Four hours in bed and I will have to see to uncoupling the trailer and making it safe standing, so I can use the car to go to work.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Garage in a box?
> I must look that up and see if I can use one..


Here are two links, the first is the China made one, the second is a higher quality (price) unit called Garage in a Box. Shelter logic says they sell these world wide in major retailers. I got mine in a farm and fleet store.

http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-garage-42211.html 
http://www.shelterlogic.com/Shelter_Retail_Main.html



Woodsmith said:


> Well, no photos tonight, too tired, will sort them out when I can.
> 
> All I will say is this.
> 
> ...


Sorry all didn't go well, glad you made it all the way back without loosing the trailer. Sounds like a really rough trip. A positive thought you will get to play with your new welder to fix up the trailer.

Wish the lift truck motor had turned out better, as you state in the other thread it's smaller then advertized and may need a drive end cover made. Bummer. But knowing you, you'll fix it up. 

At least the 6 inch motor or even one of the smaller motors should work well to power up the Murrey axle once it's mounted on the remains of the Wheel Horse frame, ought to make a great baby tractor for your Dad to putt around on. How many volts/amps is that toy scooter he bought, maybe you could get him going with the controller from that and a couple of cheap batteries.

Glad the Wheel Horse seem to have worked out well. glad you got the steering shaft and wheel. From that point it shouldn't take much to get it moving again with the Murrey transaxle.

Looking back over the tractor thingy build, it looks like you should be able to take your wheel adapters and disc brakes and easily adapt them to the wheel flanges of the transaxle. As an extra, the transaxle has an internal mechanical brake so you should have no problem connecting to that for a parking brake.

The only real problem is going to be flopping the motor and drive over to the other side. For me a problem for you a breeze.

Sorry if I'm ramblin on, I waited up until you got back safe. Time for me to hit the rack as well.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Jim.
I phoned my folks a couple of times saying that I had rested to explain my lateness, it was better then worrying them unnecessarily.

Anyway, here it is.









I picked up the axle first.










I also got the steering pump motor.









This is how I had it first, on the trailer.

















I over estimated the weight of the Wheelhorse and it was nowhere near enough, even right on the back of the trailer, to balance the forklift axle.

Notice how the drawbar isn't quite straight with the rest of the trailer.
It is also low because I have the forklift wheels in the back of the car.








Those must weight close on 100kg each!

I had to take one of the forklift wheels from the back of my car and put it on the back of the trailer and then shift the axle around and move it back a bit to reduce the weight on the hitch.









I then had to use the straps holding the tractor and the axle to brace and support the drawbar.









This is where the welds failed, on the tops of the 60x8mm angles where it was welded onto the 100x50x4mm box section.

















Those cracks go right through and the drawbar waggles up and down easily.
The box section is still firmly connected to the extending part of the drawbar though so I will just need to cut off the angle and then weld on some 6 or 10mm spreader plates before rewelding them onto the box section.
It was supposed to have a heavy duty frame over the box section to support a small hydraulic crane. The frame was supposed to be braced to the angle that the hitch is bolted to and the whole thing would then have been triangulated and corner braced.
The box section would then have had extending legs tucked inside.

Now, does anyong know how I can remove the rubber from these wheels?
They are three peice split rims with a massice circlip on the other side holding the flange on.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Just happened to see a program on TV the other day. Those tires are pressed onto the wheels. Have to rig up a hydraulic rig to press them off.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I think I might have seen a similar, or the same, programme a while ago. It showed rubber tyres being made for forklifts and then being pressed on and off wheels in a big hydraulic press.

I will see if the rubber cuts with a coarse saw. If I decide to use the axle for anything (really big pulling tractor?) then I will just cut the centres out and weld them to some easier to use rims.

I had a quick 'scrape' of the axle where the motor is attached and I think I can split the motor off leaving a large disc of the axle diff housing attached.
It seems to be a hub, joined to an axle tube, bolted to the bit attached to the motor on one side. Then on the other side is the diff housing follwed by the other hub. There might even be hub reduction gears too.

I will give it a good clean and then dismantle the axle to get it off the trailer and see if the motor can be used in that format.
No photos, again, as I am in college waiting to start a class.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

I finally got to those garage-in-a-box pictures for you....

Note the pipe foam on the pipes and the EXTRA tarp OVER the roof!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers, Dave.
A part of me thinks that if I got one of those my neighbours would think it was a crime scene.










I will look at some options in due course to see what the best options will be.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> I finally got to those garage-in-a-box pictures for you....
> 
> Note the pipe foam on the pipes and the EXTRA tarp OVER the roof!


You could actually make this quite habitable by using the new foam insulation being used in attic rafters between the top of this structure and the tarp.

One of these days, someone will get smart and make a double-wall cloth building designed specifically to have foam sprayed between the layers. Such a setup will go up in hours, last for years, and have better thermal insulation than most homes.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

PhantomPholly said:


> You could actually make this quite habitable by using the new foam insulation being used in attic rafters between the top of this structure and the tarp.
> 
> One of these days, someone will get smart and make a double-wall cloth building designed specifically to have foam sprayed between the layers. Such a setup will go up in hours, last for years, and have better thermal insulation than most homes.


That has been considered already but I am not sure where development is up to at the moment.
I found out about it on my MSc course on Environmental Achitecture. It was envisioned that it would be a good way to ship out emergency shelters to disaster areas around the world.
Then someone pointed out the very unenvironmentally friendly use of the PU foam.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> That has been considered already but I am not sure where development is up to at the moment.
> I found out about it on my MSc course on Environmental Achitecture. It was envisioned that it would be a good way to ship out emergency shelters to disaster areas around the world.
> Then someone pointed out the very unenvironmentally friendly use of the PU foam.


Well, if the structure stands for 50 years there's a good chance they will have discovered a way to recycle it by then...


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

It looks like the state of the art in Garden Tractor Pulling just took a leap forward. I think you're going to have to get back to work on yours if you expect to catch up.

Julian of Midwest Super Cub has built the first all out Garden Tractor Open Class electric puller, (that I know of). It's different from the Ultralight Class, (the Big 13 is an ultralight), in that it requires the use of a garden tractor transaxle. Ultra Light does not.

Anyway, he has 12 <Edit> Optoma <End Edit> Red tops for 144 volts (soon to be 10 and 120 volts because of weight). A Warp Drtive controller and an ADC 9 inch motor. It all appears to be tied into one of Midwests custom tube chassis and aluminium transaxles, wheel and body panels. It looks like he bypassed the initial reduction gear set of the Cub Cadet and is tied directly to the input of the transmission.

I have some construction Pictures and a couple of you tube videos I'll attach for your and others enjoyment.

First tryout, right outside the shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrCoGoJtovQ

First Hooks at the Columbus Indoor Pull (250 foot track) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFexW6m4vtE

Some Pictures. 

Enjoy,
Jim


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

An addendum to the last, Darin finally got his Video of his best run on 120 volts (he didn't blow a battery until the end of the pull).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_PEgBJE7-s

He is using an Alltrax 7245 and a bypass system to 120 volts he kicks in at about 50 feet.

The video is poor because it's at night, but you can see how far we have progressed in a year.

NEXT YEAR . . .

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Great photos and videos Jim.
I doubt I will be competitive with only four Optimas.

I hadn't thought about mounting them anyway other then upright, I guess they look too much like FLA batteries to want to break a habit of a lifetime.

Is that only a 9" motor? From the photos it looks so much like my 12" motor right down to the semi matt black paint. It gives me ideas! 

I am waiting for warmer, dryer weather and some time away from work to do some more on the tractor.

Just back from the docs today with more ABs for a chest infection that seems to still be hanging over from a few months ago so I am really drained and lethargic and only able to deal with my teaching work in between bouts of uselessness.

I started a thread in tech about making a reversing switch for the trike, if it is possible I will test it on the tractor first and hopefully lose the annoying 'CLUNK CLUNK' when I flick the switch.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Nice Jim! Monster shop!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

While the weather has been georgeous today (well relatively so for a February day in Manchester) I decided to do a bit of work on the tractor.

Yesterday I carefully wheeled the tractor out of the trailer/garage and with about a 50 point turn I managed to make it face the other way so that it was nose inwards. That made it easier to work on the transaxle and get it removed.

A while ago I bought this little thing, it is a Wheelhorse tractor and Jim thinks it will do fine as a replacement transaxle.









I also picked up a mower axle to start a little kart/tractor for Dad too and with the front of the Wheelhorse removed I decided to see how it looked mated to the mower axle. A little short that way but I think it will eventually work out. 








Dad thinks it is a cute size and so I will be starting another EV build. Another thread for the much hoped for new forum.

Anyway, with the tractor in the trailer I began the rear end strip down. I jacked up the back and put it on stands leaving the batteries in the front as ballast to keep the transaxle up in the air. The wheels came off first and then all the ancillaries.









I wanted to leave the brake calipers intact to save draining fluids for now and all the electrics are still connected. I can remove the reversing contactor in due course as the tractor has a 3F 1R transmission.
The transaxle came off in one easy lump.









I took the transaxle into the workshop to have a look at what was broken and on picking it up there was a distinct rattle from the inside. The sort of rattle that sounds bigger then a few missing teeth!








I'm sure I drained the oil when I put her away last August. I am sure of it.

Count the bits of crown wheel! It has exploded into shrapnal, six big pieces, a load of teeth, some crumbs and the two spider gears!









If anyone is a little worried about how much torque a little series DC motor can produce then here is a lesson the hard way.
Granted I was pulling wheelies on 48V at the time.

I thought it best to checkover the Wheelhorse transaxle too.








The wheels came off and I decided to actually drain the oil on this one before opening it up.
Hmmm, about two pints of water and a pint of mayo came out.

I will definately be splitting this one later to have a look. I will need to replace the axle oil seals in any case as it has been leaking on the slabs outside.

Anyone got a PDF of the insides of one of these? A service manual would be good but a parts image would let me know what I am in for when it is open.
Cheers.

Right, back to lesson planning for next week. Must get it done by tomorrow as I am possibly welding car sills on Saturday and then learning to make soap with my honey on Sunday.


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## Schmism (Aug 16, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


>


 Thats the kind of failure i would expect from over rev. radial fractures like that. IF you had over torqued it i would expect it to strip teeth off the outside before exploding it like that. old mowers (or 2 wheel walk behinds which i suspect that gearbox was from as it had no reverse) didnt go much more than a few mph (6mph tops)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It had stripped a few teeth but I suspect that it was the forces across the spider gears while the front wheels were off the ground that blew it apart, or at least fractured it.

The first bang, after the wheelie, it still drove albeit gently so I think it lost teeth then. The next time I tried running it to see what it was like I think the crown wheel just fell apart and left nothing.

My honey suggested it might just be beyond zip ties and duct tape.


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

Woody,

It's good to see the tractor getting some attention again. Tell your honey she has no faith in the male ego. I'm thinking duct tape, and some baling wire in lieu of zip ties. 

Mike


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

electromet said:


> Woody,
> 
> It's good to see the tractor getting some attention again. Tell your honey she has no faith in the male ego. I'm thinking duct tape, and some baling wire in lieu of zip ties.
> 
> Mike


To be fair she did remind me that I bought a hot melt glue gun the other week....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I can't get the Wheelhorse transaxle open.

It has a steel shaft at the back that supports the draw bar. The shaft passes through both halves of the casing and is rusted solid. I have soaked in penetrating fluid and bashed it so much that the ends were mushroomed over. I gave up and cut the the drawbar off and then cut through the shaft and left it flush with the case on both sides. It shall stay that way.

I have filled the transaxle with parrafin and spun the shafts in each gear to flush the water and mayo out.
It is now draining.

One thing I found was that with the mayo the diff felt open and both sides were free to spin. 
With the parrafin the diff was sticky.
With the parrafin drained out the diff is locked.

I am now wondering if it is the four speed model (3F 1R) with an LSD.
It has the planetary spur gear diff instead of the spider bevel gear diff as both half shafts are butted up together and push against the endfloat against each other.
Still can't get it open to check though.

In the mean time I have found a manual for the Wheelhorse transaxle now.
http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/Transmission_Uni-drive_1958_-_1982.pdf


Also given the ratios:
1st: 66.8:1
2nd: 42.4:1
3rd: 24.6:1
Rev: 51.5:1
I will need to change my chain sprokets from the motor to the transaxle.
With the existing 3.5:1 I would have 4.5mph in top at 4000rpm.
A 1:1 chain sprocket would give me 15mph at 4000rpm.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

I had a gearbox separation problem where the drive axle and inner bearing race were rusted together. I destroyed the case to find that out.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Salty9 said:


> I had a gearbox separation problem where the drive axle and inner bearing race were rusted together. I destroyed the case to find that out.


I hope that doesn't happen here. It all seemed to work ok.
I am tempted to drill out that shaft so I can split the box just to have a look. I will need to find a source of parts though.

Here's a nice bit of luck. I wanted to use Land Rover wheels as they are a good size for off road and agri tyres and they are easy to find.
I have the parts form a Discovery axle and found that the little Wheelhorse hub fits in it.

The raised centre of the hub that locates the wheel is the same size as the Land Rover wheel bearing grease seal diameter.

The Wheelhorse hub.









The back of the Land Rover hub showing the five bolt holes for the brake disc.









The two plug in together nice and snug with perfect location.









The five holes don't quite line up, the Land Rover ones are half a hole diameter further out but I can weld up and redrill new ones and also add a bit of metal around the edge so the holes are not too close to the rim.
I will also need to make a spacer so the bolts clamp the little hub and the disc tightly to the Land Rover hub.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I can't get the Wheelhorse transaxle open.
> 
> It has a steel shaft at the back that supports the draw bar. The shaft passes through both halves of the casing and is rusted solid. I have soaked in penetrating fluid and bashed it so much that the ends were mushroomed over. I gave up and cut the the drawbar off and then cut through the shaft and left it flush with the case on both sides. It shall stay that way..


Woody,

Try to drill through the pin lengthwise about 1/2 of its diameter, then heat the case boss, even propane heat should be enough. Then support the case and whang away. Might need two or three tries. Helps to get the case hot then squirt oil on the pin, it shrinks the pin and allows oil penitration. If you have an air hammer you can take a blunt tip and work over the outside of the pin boss area, lots of light hits will pulverise the rust bond. A air hammer is also handy for driving out the pin. Again lots of light hits tends to break the rust bond.

Any way it's not like you to give up.



Woodsmith said:


> II have filled the transaxle with parrafin and spun the shafts in each gear to flush the water and mayo out.
> It is now draining.
> 
> One thing I found was that with the mayo the diff felt open and both sides were free to spin.
> ...


Please give me the american translation of parafin, is that what we call kerosene?

I've found the heated ATF is a very good flush for something like this. ATF will really bond to water.80w90 or 70w90 should be what you want to put in at the end.



Woodsmith said:


> Still can't get it open to check though.


I say again, not like you to give up. You really need to get it apart. You dont want to go through getting all of the changes and mounting done and find the transaxle is no good.



Woodsmith said:


> IIn the mean time I have found a manual for the Wheelhorse transaxle now..


GREAT! I'm poor at internet searches and could only find some to buy.




Woodsmith said:


> IAlso given the ratios:
> 1st: 66.8:1
> 2nd: 42.4:1
> 3rd: 24.6:1
> ...


I get 15 MPH out of the yellow cub at about 5000 rpm so that sounds just right. You really don't want to go faster, it gets a bit squirlly at that speed. I haven't really needed 1st or 2nd gear for general use, 3rd and reverse is it. Bet when you get done, at 48 volts bet you can yank the front end off the ground in 3rd gear.

I don't think I've steered you wrong on that trans (I hope not). The four forward speed transaxles are stronger then the three speed forward, but I don't think you will ever do anything that will defeat the three. it seems that these sidewinder transaxles are rare in GB. You take what you can get.

Jim


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Dont forget to use nickel welding rods


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Dont forget to use nickel welding rods


Ummmm.....



I haven't quite given up on opening the box, it just isn't a priority for the moment.

I ground the shaft flat with a view to drilling it out. I figured that if I drilled it out I can get a stepped drift in there to help aim the blows better without mushrooming the end.

I'll try the propane torch though.

No time now until next week by the look of things.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

That hub looks like cast iron so you'd use a nickel or 29/9 rod to weld it.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Have you tried differential heating and cooling? Dry ice on the shaft and a propane torch applied carefully to the case


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Salty9 said:


> Have you tried differential heating and cooling? Dry ice on the shaft and a propane torch applied carefully to the case


Not yet.

I think the plan will be to bore a large hole, 10mm, through the centre, heat the case and then quench the shaft from the inside with a can of WD40 or a squirt of water.
I will need a drift with a reduced shank made ready to drift it out quickly.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I managed to drill out the shaft. I decided to drill off centre and open the hole out until it split the side of the shaft. It came out quite easily then.

I got the box opened up, spilling a bit more paraffin (kerosene) and mayo on the floor.
It looks ok.

















There is a very small amount of rust between a couple of the diff gear teeth and a little on the gear cluster shafts but nothing that would affect function.

The teeth are showing a little wear but again nothing that I can go much about and nothing that is threateningly bad. The half shafts are showing a little pitting on the outer ends where the needle roller bearings are but the rollers look fine, I suspect they have been changed at some point. 

It should last a while and by then I would have another solution. I'll most likely have broken it again doing something silly!

I have stripped as much as I can, cleaned and lubed and reassembled the box now. I made a paper gasket to seal it with but will need to find a Wheelhorse dealer to get a couple of axle oil seals.

So far so good.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

I've had nothing but grief from home-made gaskets and not much better from store bought paper gaskets. I use Permatex Copper Formagasket now for almost every use but high temp applications.
http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/enthusiasts/catalog_item_detail.asp?catalog=5665&levelcode=48107&product=753740&cattype=&ProductCategoryCode=


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I managed to drill out the shaft. I decided to drill off centre and open the hole out until it split the side of the shaft. It came out quite easily then.
> 
> I got the box opened up, spilling a bit more paraffin (kerosene) and mayo on the floor.
> It looks ok.
> ...


Woody,

Now thats the Woody I know, I knew that you couldn't pass up a challange like this. Didn't think about drilling off center, I'll have to remember that one.

I feel much better that the internals are in reasonable shape for something that old. I wish my internals were were as good as those parts look.

It looks like a lot of the pieces you built for the other trans will mount up without too much work needed. Save a bit of work.

I'll be watching over your shoulder.

Jim

PS if you can't find seals let me know, my buddy might have some plus there is a dealer near by.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Salty9 said:


> I've had nothing but grief from home-made gaskets and not much better from store bought paper gaskets. I use Permatex Copper Formagasket now for almost every use but high temp applications.
> http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/e...&product=753740&cattype=&ProductCategoryCode=


I've been lucky so far with home made gaskets. The plan is to add some kerosene and see if it wets the outside. If not then I will drain and add gear oil. Need to check what sort.



Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Now thats the Woody I know, I knew that you couldn't pass up a challange like this. Didn't think about drilling off center, I'll have to remember that one.
> 
> ...


It sorta dawned on me as I thought that if I drilled a central hole and it was still stuck I would saw a slot to split the tube. It then seemed sensible to 'split the tube' intentionally.

I'll bear it in mind about the seals, thanks Jim.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Woody

_*need to find a Wheelhorse dealer to get a couple of axle oil seals.*_

Have you tried your local bearing supply house? -these things are almost always standard sizes

Designing with a non standard size seal leads to the design engineer being fed to the wild seals

Big engineering companies keep a tank of them ready just in case


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Duncan,

I've not considered generic seals yet, I don't know what it should look like yet as they are missing I think.
The seal is 1" bore but it looks only about 1 1/4" OD making it a very small section. I need to dig out the old one, or what is left of it if anything to have a look.

I haven't worked out if the circular corded thing that fell out is a part of the seal or just a bit of string or thread that has been caught in the axle.

The manual is no help either, the seal drawing is just a circular thing marked as a seal.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi woody

I think even a good bearing shop will need a little more than that!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I think even I need a little more then that.

It should look something like this:
















(photos from this link http://whtractor.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=221&hl=)


I am struggling to find a part number as the searches are all based on the tractor model and serial number, and I have neither available.

I will call a dealer and see. No time left this week.


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## Ektus (Feb 15, 2011)

Hi Woody,


that looks like a standard radial shaft seal. They are available in a wide variety of brands and products, but normally any mechanically fitting seal will work in this application. So you need shaft diameter, bore diameter and depth and that's it. You may want to check out http://www.simrit.de/web/public/products/radialshaftseals for more information.


Ektus.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Ektus.
When I get a moment I will investigate with a view to sizing them. In the article where I got the images the chap says he fitted two seals each side. That may be a tempting idea if they would fit as it would avoid running one of the seals on a previously worn groove and maybe ensure a more secure seal.

In the meantime I have my hands on a pair of 72V Curtis controllers from Greyballs, one to replace the 48V Curtis on the tractor. The 48V one will go to Dad's kart, keep his speed down. The other 72V will go on the trike to get it running and legal borrowing the batteries from the tractor prior to an Open Revolt and Lithium.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've stillnot got the seals for the axle yet but I figured it was time to start getting some progress on the tractor again.

The first job is a nice simple one. To mate the Wheelhorse hubs to the Land Rover hubs so I can use Land Rover wheels and brakes.

The five holes on the Wheelhorse hubs almost match the brake disc mounting holes, they just needed moving outwards a little to a slightly larger PCD.

To do that I wound in the original wheel bolts as tight as they would go and hacksawed them flush both sides. I used a centre punch to stake the bolts so that they wouldn't move. Then I marked, punched and drilled the new holes at 10.5mm.









The shoulder of the hub locates tightly where the land Rover wheel bearing seal was and so I just needed spacers to go between the hub and the disc.
I cut these from some 1/2" steel gas pipe.









This is how it looks bolted up.









OK, I cheated! Those bolts are only 1" long. I need to buy some M10 x 80 bolts before I can finish the hubs.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I toyed with the idea of using my 9" motor for the tractor so I tried lining it up with the Wheelhorse transaxle. It was bigger then the transaxle!

I pulled the 7" motor back out of the tractor and that is more the right size. I had to cut the motor mount and the sprocket shaft carrier off so it could go back on the motor upside down to change it from left side chain to right side chain.

I am going to build a new back end for the tractor in the workshop and make it a bolt on unit to the front of the chassis The transaxle, motor, brake calipers and seat will all be one unit. The batteries, controller, brake cylinders, front axle and steering will be at the front.

The chassis split will happen just ahead of the motor leaving the cables and brake pipes.

I will remove the reversing contactors as the transaxle has a reverse gear. The contactors can be used to set up the trike on 48V for testing.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I made up the bracket to join the Wheelhorse transaxle to the tractor chassis today. I had a short peice of box section that was a nice snug fit over the box used for the tractor chassis.
That formed the socket for the coupling. A couple of bits of angle produced the flanges for bolting the transaxle to the bracket.

















The motor may fit in this position but there may be chain clearence issues.









If this is a problem then the motor may sit on top of the transaxle behind the gearstick.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The bolts arrived for the hubs today so I quickly bolted the hubs together.

Of course I couldn't resist putting the hubs on the transaxle to see and then I had to bring the wheels down into the basement workshop just to see how they would look and fit.
I haven't got the wide tyres fitted yet, those are still on the other wheels.








With the wheels on the right way they seemed too close together.








The track is only 24" with 14" between the sidewalls, too narrow to sit between.

I turned the wheels inside out to gain an extra 6" track width.
















Now the track is 30" with 20" between and an overall width of 38", much better.

However, with the Land Rover hubs and steel wheels I think just this bit weighs more then the rest of the tractor!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Just a little update.
The transaxle now has brakes. I used the same brake calipers I had before instead of the Land Rover ones as there seemed no point in overhauling a pair of big four pots when the Corsa calipers were fine.

To fit the calipers I made up brackets that U bolted to the square section of the Wheelhorse axle.

























There was a lot of trimming and notching to get the brackets to fit but nothing to arduous.

What was hard work was removing the 7.50 16 tyres from the steel rims and then the 265 75 16 tyres from the aluminium rims and fitting them to the steel rims.
At least I know I can remove big tyres on the floor without a tyre changing machine, or proper tyre levers.

I still have to sort out the chain drive for the motor and then it can all go back on the tractor chassis.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Good to see you back at it.

I do have a question. were you planning on using the tractor as a tow tug for 20.000 pound trucks. You have enough brake there to stop an avalanche. Just kidding

The OEM garden tractor factories used the same process as your brackets, although just a bit lighter, to fit the mechanical calipers they used on the hydro transaxles that didn't have a pinion shaft brake.

Looks like you are getting close to a ride around the street again. Probably wont have to worry about breakage again. I think you will like this a bit better with 3 gears once you get the chain drive ratio right. At a guess, you might want to top out at around 3 to 4 mph in low 5 to 8 in second and 10 to 12 in high (adjusted for the actual internal ratios).

Keep on going.

Jim


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Can't wait to see it and be sure your Dad drives it.. He looked quite happy in the video!!!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Defintely looks like it's Woody-built!  Looking good, and it's great to see the tractor getting some time again. It's kind of an institution around here.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers guys.

I've been using the tractor as therapy to get me active again.

Not every one knows but I have been really rather ill recently, loss of balance, dizziness, extreme vertigo and problems walking. Still, following a brain scan I've not had any 'urgent' news so that can't be a bad sign. However, I am signed off sick with strict instructions that I am not safe in a workshop (how's that news?) so I think there ends the college teaching.
I now have to get my own workshop back in to money making mode.

I am getting better gradually and doing little bits here and there, with no deadline pressures, helps.

Haha!  The brakes are a little on the big side, enough to stop a fully loaded Land Rover and some!

The chain gearing is a little fiddly to get right due to clearances, I will need to make a sprocket adaptor that moves it about 2" outboard of the shaft end to line up the motor in a good place and clear the chassis. If I use the motor sprocket as it, a 13 tooth, then I am looking at a 17-19 tooth on the axle to get the speeds Jim thinks.
Those 31" tyres gear things up a lot compared to the 20" Wheelhorse tyres.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

I gathered the illness from previous hints Woody. I will just ask if you have been checked for meniere's syndrome as your symptoms suggest that. I won't go into details as this is an improper place to mention my other occupation. 

Anyway keep up the tractor work and, as always, I will be lurking!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> I gathered the illness from previous hints Woody. I will just ask if you have been checked for meniere's syndrome as your symptoms suggest that. I won't go into details as this is an improper place to mention my other occupation.
> 
> Anyway keep up the tractor work and, as always, I will be lurking!


Cheers, The hospital did check for ear related causes but decided to look for possible problems in my brain comparing the messages from my ears and my eyes.

I am also working out that I am also having difficulties concentrating on a task, something that I was the opposite of before. I was always very focused on a task but now my mind wonders all over the place.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I picked up a sprocket today, on special order.

I requested a triplex taperlock sprocket for the tractor as the single had the teeth on the wrong end and couldn't be reversed on the shaft. The triplex allows me to use the outer of the three ignoring the other two.

Unfortunately the taperlock sits on the outer edge of the sprocket meaning that it is only 2/3 on the shaft. Would have been better if it were the other way round.

It will do though.
To save having the motor on a slide for chain tension I also bought a tensioner sprocket. It makes sense with this set up as the transaxle has a reverse gear.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Lookin good !!!!

Just glad you are able to keep at it. I for one, really know how difficult it is to keep goin when you are feeling down or sick. 

Can't wait to see you re-connect front and rear. The grin on you and your dad's face was priiceless.

Yer gonna hafta git movin to catch up. I got the Cub up to 72 volts, Gives a whole new meanning to the term HOT SEAT. Lordy, pry my finger loose from the steering wheel.

Glad to see both projects moving along.

Jim


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Yea!!! Wee Beastie work! Get it going this time and pull something down or over with it!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers guys, I'll see what I can do.

I will need to cut a notch in the rear frame, where I marked it with chalk, to clear the chain and then make the tensioner arm.

I might then go 72v too using one of the controllers I got from Greyballs.
I have a new friend, Derek (the clown), who is after converting his clown car to electric so he may get the 48v controller and 9" motor. Though I've still half a mind (all I have left that works) to put the 9" on the tractor and give Derek the 7".

Jim, I think you should use my woodsmith email as my other one is messing me about. I found your mail on my phone but not online for a while and only on Google not Thunderbird.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Very quickly this evening, before pain prevented me from working again, I did a bit more work.

I cut the notch out of the box section, inverted it and welded it back on.









Then I tried the chain for clearence. Perfect once the tensioner is on. (My honey's hands helping out a little!)









Now here's a dilemma. Eeny meeny miny mo, which motor to make it go?









Well this one fits very well.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Question Wood..
Is it better to idle up under the chain or over the top and force more teeth to mesh on the sprockets?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

From: 
Power Transmission Elements
Mechanical Designers' Workbook
J.E. Shigley, C.R Mischke
McGraw-Hill Publishing Company
New York
1990



> _Idlers_. Excessive chain sag caused by normal chain wear can be taken up by using adjustable idlers, chain tensioners, and adjustable-drive unit-mounted base plates.
> Idler sprockets, when positioned outside the chain, should be located near the smaller sprocket. Idler sprockets should be used with vertical drive configurations so as to prevent uncontrolled chain motion and possible disengagement from the lower sprocket.


I take from this that internally mounted idlers might be a normal configuration not requiring specific mention about positioning.

I am putting it inside to reduce the height of the chain case and any reduction in wrap is minimal.

As an aside the drive I'm using is non prefered as the prefered 'horizontal' drive system is for the drive side of the chain to be at the top. For this transaxle the motor spins counter clockwise and the drive side is, therefore, underneath.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, yesterday I was on a crutch and walking painfully.
Today I feel on top of the world!

We, honey and I, went in the workshop and I had a play with the tractor.

I looked at the bits of 'stuff' I had available for making a motor mount. I started with a bit of 50x50mm angle but it was a bit thin at about 2.5mm.









I then tried a bit of 60x60mm angle but that was 8mm thick and a bit awkward to work with hand tools.









Then I remembered the swivel plate that the motor came with.

















I dug it out, grateful I hadn't put it in for scrap, and parted the ring and bearing from the motor plate.









With a bit of careful measuring I scribed a cutting line to remove the larger part of the web to form a straight edge for mounting on the chassis.
Out came the trusty hacksaw.









Halfway through and time to turn it over.









A bit more cutting and nearly there.









Almost there.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It only took about 20 minutes to cut including stopping and talking about the process while my honey took photos and video.
The video won't convert from MP4 to something I can post so I might try again later if anyone is interested in seeing 250mm of 11mm plate being cut by hand.

This is how it looks in place.













































I will make a bracket for the CE to support that end to the chassis. I will need to get another sprocket and taperlock before I know where the motor will sit best.

Not sure where in the grand scheme the decision was made to use the 9" motor but it seems to fit quite well.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Woody , Is that plate cast iron? I have nickel welding rods by the dozen if you need a few. Nice work


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Well hello folks. Woodsmith's Honey here...

I'm learning a lot about electrics these days, but if anyone can enlighten me as to how cutting through 9 inches of 11mm metal is easier than cutting some notches out of 8mm metal, I'd be grateful.... 

Seriously, it's really coming together, to my untutored eyes, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in action sometime!

My electric vehicle experience is currently limited to driving a Bradshaws FB2 'truck' at work, something tells me this Wee Beastie will be a bit different.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Arch said:


> Well hello folks. Woodsmith's Honey here...
> 
> I'm learning a lot about electrics these days, but if anyone can enlighten me as to how cutting through 9 inches of 11mm metal is easier than cutting some notches out of 8mm metal, I'd be grateful....
> 
> ...


(after the standing ovation subsides...) Hello Woody's Honey! 

In the world of Woody-built vehicles, "easy" doesn't really apply. The only things that are important are the artistic component, and whether or not it's built strong enough to pull a bridge down! So sawing through 9 inches of 11mm thick metal with a hacksaw, makes perfect sense because it's ultimately 2mm thicker than the "easy" way. Right Woody?

I say screw the hacksaw and gnaw your way through it next time Woody, take old world craftsmanship to new levels.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Arch said:


> Well hello folks. Woodsmith's Honey here...
> 
> I'm learning a lot about electrics these days, but if anyone can enlighten me as to how cutting through 9 inches of 11mm metal is easier than cutting some notches out of 8mm metal, I'd be grateful....
> 
> ...



AND ALL I CAN SAY IS::     ! 
Nice to see you here!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Woody , Is that plate cast iron? I have nickel welding rods by the dozen if you need a few. Nice work


It might be, I will play with the off cut to check for certain. The part number on it seems to be cast in.
I've never welded cast iron (well, not knowingly with any sucess) so I might have a few rods to try with. Thank you.

If welding is 'difficult' I can always use the mulitude of M10 threaded holes on it to bolt it down.




Hi honey, glad to see you here.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Thanks for the welcomes! It's good to be here. I've been reading bits and pieces since I met Woody, it's a good way to keep up to date with what he's doing in the days between the weekends.

My own practical skills are minimal - I can hold things, if they aren't too heavy, and pass things on command, and I'm at my happiest sorting out large random collections of small objects (screws, washers, Lego bricks etc). All of these I hope will be helpful!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Honey, maybe you should look at starting a thread on 'Beryl' (the works Bradshaw) sometime to get tips on how she can increase her range.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Honey, maybe you should look at starting a thread on 'Beryl' (the works Bradshaw) sometime to get tips on how she can increase her range.


I may be too late for that. The Boss's visit to Bluebird seems to have been promising....

(we're in the process of possibly getting a new vehicle, and it's down to a choice of two or three now.)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Arch said:


> I may be too late for that. The Boss's visit to Bluebird seems to have been promising....
> 
> (we're in the process of possibly getting a new vehicle, and it's down to a choice of two or three now.)


Yay! A new EV about to go on the road! Will have to smash a (small) bottle of St. Nick's home brew cider on its bumper to 'launch' it.



I tried welding a bit of scrap mild steel to the bit of off cut from the motor bracket today.








It welded fine. I tried breaking off the tab of mild steel and with a lot of bashing with a lump hammer and bending in the vice it eventually broke off on the mild steel side. I guess that means I should be able to weld it to the chassis.

I also bought a sprocket for the motor shaft.
After discussing it with the chap at the shop he said that a 28mm taper lock would crack if I tightened it onto the 27.6mm splined shaft. In the end I bought an 18 tooth sprocket with a 1" bore. I turned the bore out to 27.5mm, honed it a little with a bit of abrasive cloth and gently bashed it on the shaft. I will need to make a key to fit in the keyway and one of the splines to take the drive.

I also fitted the chain to see how many links I can use.
The ideal position would have required a half link or an extra tooth on the sprocket but it isn't worth the effort to change it now.
The motor is 5mm closer to the transmission now. Better then 15mm further away









I have powered it and at 12v it runs well, not too noisy and much better the the previous set up.
I was going to take some video but my new phone video doesn't convert to WMA. Anyone know how I can do this?

As the chain is a fairly close fit I think putting the tensioner inside the chain run will be fine, it will only move out about 1/2" for full tension and the decrease in wrap is negligable.
I think I will try for a sprung idler though in case there is any variation in tension.

Getting closer to putting the tractor back together.

I still want to change to the 72v controller so I will need to do a little rewiring, which will also delete the reversing contactors, and to start on making two water cooling blocks one for each of the 72v controllers.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I was going to take some video but my new phone video doesn't convert to WMA. Anyone know how I can do this?...
> 
> ...Getting closer to putting the tractor back together...


Yay! Wee Beastie time! 

Search online for free video converters. I've used one called Hamster with some success before. When I try to use it to change really large QuickTime movies (MPEG4) to WMA it knocks them down to 128 x 96 pixel size - really tiny picture. I haven't really tried to see why, or if it can be fixed though. It worked okay for converting my cell phone clips to WMA, when I was messing with the motor mount video - hmmm, I never finished that one...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Search online for free video converters. I've used one called Hamster with some success before. When I try to use it to change really large QuickTime movies (MPEG4) to WMA it knocks them down to 128 x 96 pixel size - really tiny picture. I haven't really tried to see why, or if it can be fixed though. It worked okay for converting my cell phone clips to WMA, when I was messing with the motor mount video - hmmm, I never finished that one...


I have been using http://www.convertfiles.com/ and it has been fine up til now. It works with MP4 video from my old phone but not MP4 on the new one. Also if I send the video from my new phone to my old one it won't play.
Maybe it is a phone issue, or a stupid 'tie you into our product and software' issue. If that is the case I will abandon the phone and return to my old one.


Anyway, done a bit of welding.
Having tested that the motor mount was weldable I spent some time carefully setting it square and true to the sprocket on the transmission. Then a few big tack welds followed and more checking. I decided to fully weld the outside joint while the motor was still attached as the motor is a really tight fit in the mount. To remove it could cause the mount to move.
Once welded I then added a brace to the transmission mounting plate behind the mount to keep it in position. Then I removed the motor and finished welding both sides where I could get the welder to.

















It is really rigid and with the motor refitted it is able to cantilever the motor off the chassis without any give. It took my weight, 85kg, on top of the motor's 43kg and only moved a millimeter downwards.

















I took video of it running but it still won't convert. I will go and film it with my old phone and then post it up.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> It is really rigid and with the motor refitted it is able to cantilever the motor off the chassis without any give. It took my weight, 85kg, on top of the motor's 43kg and only moved a millimeter downwards.



Hang on a minute. That motor is half your weight?!?!?! 

No wonder it looked like you were putting a bit of effort into lifting it...

Looking good, anyway! I think 'solid' is a word I'd use...


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

Arch said:


> No wonder it looked like you were putting a bit of effort into lifting it...
> 
> Looking good, anyway! I think 'solid' is a word I'd use...


Nice to have a translator,,,,,, for us US left coasters

Welcome....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Good to see you again greyballs, Arch is good, and useful.

Video, from old phone, as promised.



I worked through the three forward speeds and the reverse. It seems fine.

Bah Humbug to new Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc phones!
Yay to old Sony Ericsson W995 phone.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Woody; A question re chain; I bought this lubricant from the local bike shop. It is for offroad/onroad. Is there a better brand available? This one has better adhesion and less throwoff than a cheaper brand I tried, which was basically upholstery glue and light oil, resulting in a hot, stretched chain. Any suitable brand names would be appreciated as availability here in Oz may vary. Thanks.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

poprock1 said:


> Hi Woody; A question re chain; I bought this lubricant from the local bike shop. It is for offroad/onroad. Is there a better brand available? This one has better adhesion and less throwoff than a cheaper brand I tried, which was basically upholstery glue and light oil, resulting in a hot, stretched chain. Any suitable brand names would be appreciated as availability here in Oz may vary. Thanks.


Ummmm, Don't know.

To be honest, the only 'industrial chains' I have used in the past have been either in an enclosed oil bath or exposed and covered in thick gloopy gunk that got everywhere.

Not sure what I will actually do with mine aside from fitting a bullet proof cover.

However, from my cycling know how I would go with 'The Mickle Method', as made famous on www.cyclechat.net, as a way to clean and lube chain without all the mess. Mick's theory is that the chain only needs lube inside the rollers where the movement takes place but not where the chain touches the sprocket as there is no relative movement between the two, just contact/no contact. It means the outside can stay clean and dry with only a slight oily surface to reduce corrosion.
I will check if there is a recommended brand of lube and come back to you.

What are you using the chain on?


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

You may remember this post_:-_
_Hi; I have looked in different forums but could not find the thread posted last week on the dc motor that exploded after being towed. My query relates to safe rpm for an electrodynamic series 36v forklift dc motor. My dyna truck does 50mph-80kmh at 3000rpm. The dc is chain driven from the diff tailshaft yoke. tailshaft sprocket is 38 tooth; motor is 26. This ratio is 1:46-1, giving 4,384 rpm @50mph. Is this too much for this motor and will it meet a horrible end?_







Thanks for your reply. I have looked at the website (lube, wipe, wipe, wipe) . At first his logic is warped but then becomes logical.I will also look for the lubricants mentioned. The wipe method brings to mind the old saying. " all truth passes through three stages:- ridiculous, might be worth a look and lastly; of course, I've always known that"


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ah ha, I remember the thread, sorry short term memory been really bad recently.

The only thing I would add is that the Mickle Method is for bicycle chains I have no idea if it would work with high speed high power chain, The tractor will be my experiment and is less critical then a road car if it doesn't work!

IIRC from talking to Mick about chains, he says that modern chain (on bicycles) have oil seals on each link bearing and so the lube that it came with it stays in there, until someone uses a solvent to wash it all out! The problem is then how to get the new lube back inside the seal as added lube only sits on the outside whre it is not really needed.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Seeing it spin was awesome Woody!  You're making me want to play with something, but my hands are tied for a bit. We're going to try to have the Inhaler moving before the snow flies, and I am trying to be patient - you're not helping!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I made the tensioner this morning.

I cut a bit of 3mm plate, an off cut from the old tractor rear end, and drilled three holes in it. A 10mm hole for the pivot, a 13mm hole for the tensioner post and a 5mm hole for the spring.

The tensioner bearing is 16mm and so I cut the head of an old M16 bolt and turned a 13mm reduced step and shoulder onto it. That was then plug welded to the plate from behind.

I found a couple of springs from my scrap metal box, I think from an old steel bed frame. I drilled a hole in the brake caliper bracket on the axle and hooked it on there.









The tension from the bed springs was so high that the motor was struggling to turn against it.

I then found a really small spring from the MR2 alternator belt tensioner instead. The tension was perfect but it was too short to reach the hole in the caliper bracket so I made an extension from a broken bicycle spoke.









So that is all done.

I will still need to sort out the gear shift and a tow hitch but it is nearly time to dismantle it and bring it up to the rest of the tractor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...So that is all done.
> 
> I will still need to sort out the gear shift and a tow hitch but it is nearly time to dismantle it and bring it up to the rest of the tractor.


Nice Woody.  Can't wait to see it all together. That whole setup is wonderfully mechanical, like function expressed as art.


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

In years past, we used to run open primary chains on our Harleys. To lube them we used to 'boil' them in pariffin occasionally. It wasn't the most practical thing, but kept the lube off my back


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Mmmm, Don't know.
> 
> To be honest, the only 'industrial chains' I have used in the past have been either in an enclosed oil bath or exposed and covered in thick gooey gunk that got everywhere.
> 
> Not sure what I will actually do with mine aside from fitting a bullet proof cover.


Woody,

I did some looking around about chains back when I was running the double engined tractor. I had a terrible chain stretch problem. I looked into stainless and o ring commercial #50 and # 60 chains and their HD variants (thicker side plates) and modern motorcycle O'Ring chains sizes #530 and 630.

If you can (afford) find a piece of stainless O'Ring commercial chain for your tractor go with that, you won't be sorry. That stuff will run forever with just a bit of dry lube on the sprockets and hardly any stretch. Just spray off with water and a bit more dry lube. 

The motorcycle chain available over here matches the pitch for our #50 and #60 commercial chain but not the sprocket width. The M/C chain is designed for a thinner sprocket. So you must use their sprockets or machine yours thinner.

I love what you are doing, man it looks great. I can't wait for EV grin day.

A note of caution though. That transmission and axles you have now are strong. But I don't think it can take heavy use of the full power of a 72 volt 9 inch motor. Especially with heavy use of the fiddle brakes. I tore a standard carrier out of a cub cadet (about equal to your trans) with a 6.7 inch motor and 48 volts. 

The only other advice I can give you is slow on the go pedal, carry a LOT of weight up front and wheelie bars might be in order (I'm not joking here). I don't want to see you with a tractor on top of you.

See yah,
Jim

Added later. 

I like the unintended extra of the additional sprockets on the three row input sprockets. You should be able to figure a way to power many things from those like snow blowers and rototillers and things that can be stationary powered with the trans in neutral


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

grayballs said:


> In years past, we used to run open primary chains on our Harleys. To lube them we used to 'boil' them in pariffin occasionally. It wasn't the most practical thing, but kept the lube off my back


That's an interesting concept, it'll certainly get the lube in the chain. Not sure how a sealed chain, with O rings, would cope but good to know.

I will run mine dry on the outside with just the bullet proof guard adn see how it responds.

I have to visit the GP in a moment, just routine, and then figure how to move the carcus of the old, and wheeless, MR2 sideways on the drive to make space for some more ground works.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Jim, I doubt I will get as far as 72V but I am aware that there will be a lot of power and torque available. Also the trans is used to driving wheels 20" diameter and I using 31" diameter, that is going to be a big increase in loading.

I do have a pair of VW bus axle ends with the hub reduction I could also graft on to reduce the effective loading but then it will run backwards. I'd then have to reverse the motor and the tensioner.

Maybe if all goes well I could look at chain reduction on the axle ends. It would make the back end wider, as would the VW bus parts, but I could then turn the wheels back to the correct way round.

I am also sitting further forward in this set up or rather the axle is further back increasing the wheel base. That will add more weight to the front.
The weak point is going to be the four 3/8" UNC bolts that hold the transaxle to the chassis.

I'll look at roll over bars and wheelie bars as it comes together.

I'll keep an eye out for the stainless chain, not noticed it before, and get some if I can. It will also be a good choice for the trike too.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Good to see you again greyballs, Arch is good, and useful.
> 
> Video, from old phone, as promised.
> 
> ...



<old cycling running joke>

Chain's a bit slack... 

</joke>

And then of course, you've already sorted that. Looks good!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Wood.
On my "old" New Holland 488 haybine I use a foaming chain-lube that sticks like glue to the chains and does not sling off - (Its claim to fame). So - perhaps a farm store has that over the other side of the pond - or not ...

It is aptly called "chain lube" as a dozen others. I do not have the can here at my store but will look when I go up to my farm.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Wood.
> On my "old" New Holland 488 haybine I use a foaming chain-lube that sticks like glue to the chains and does not sling off - (Its claim to fame). So - perhaps a farm store has that over the other side of the pond - or not ...
> 
> Woody, Dave,
> ...


I've used the foaming stuff myself, when you find the "real" brand it works good, problem is so many brands now make the same claim, your like as not to get phoney stuff. 

I'll be interested in a brand name myseld since the Big 13 is chain drive.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

This evening, when most decent folk are settling down to their last cuppa tea before bed, I went into the workshop and got on with redesigning the gearshift on the transaxle.

The standard Wheelhorse shift is a sideways H pattern. Fine for it's original use but for me there were two problems.
The first is that the stick is going to end up 'where the sun don't shine' if I don't move it.
Second, if I extend the stick forwards then the sideways swing to get the gears is too wide to work between my knees.

I want to change the direction of the shift to a conventional H patternfrom:
1st-back right, 2nd-forward right, 3rd forward left, R-backwards left
to: 
1st-left forward, 2nd-right forward, 3rd-right backward, R-left backward
and placed on the left where I am used to having a stickshift.

I cut and adapted the stick to work with a remote bar running off to the right.
It is just a bit of tube with two M12 nuts welded on top and then bored out to 12mm.









Notice the mistake?
I welded the nuts on the wrong plane relative to the ball locating screw hole.

Solution? Drill a new hole 90deg further round the ball.









The remote bar is linked to a crank that will change front to back to side to side movement.
I have included enough rotational freedom so that the bar can be rotated from the stickshift changing the side to side movement to front to back.









It isn't clear how that will work but I have it in my head (and rough sketched on a bit of board in the workshop in case I forget). It will be easier to see it in action when it is done. Hopefully I will be closer to that tomorrow.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Jim -Woody:
As promised I took a few shots of the chain lube cans at my farm. Yep I still work 18 hour days at my age lol....

Justice Brothers is the name - well here we go with the pics...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers for that Dave, if I can avoid sticky chains I will do but if the 'dry' method isn't good then I will look for a similar chain lube.


I have finished the gearshift.

I tried making up a shifter but it was getting clumsy so I decided to use the stick from the MR2. It is designed to sit on top of the tunnel operating two cables running under the plastics.
This is it the right way up but with the stick cut off.









My modification was to dismantle it, cut the stick off the top end up to where teh cable fitted and weld a new stick to the underside of the ball. The cup was then taken apart and a big hole drilled into the bottom of it. 
I drilled a new hole in the sideways lever to take a ball joint.
The whole thing was then reassembled and turned upside down.









Using some of the ball jointed rods from the old tractor set up I rigged up two push rods for the forward backwards link and the side to side link.
The sick mounting plate was then cut down a bit and bolted at the front to the angle iron and at the back to one of the motor CE cap bolts.

The length of angle was also bolted to the CE cap but using two spare holes.
























(Arrgggg, horrible out of focus shot!)

I then fitted a stick knob and boots to both sticks.

















The boots came from the bag of parts that were with the Lada Niva transfer box.

Just the parking brake left but that can be done on the vehicle.
I am assuming that I have placed everything in a position that will suit the non existant seating and will still clear the wheels.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Just a quick video of the gearshift action.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Despite not going to bed until 4am (posting on x88x's thread) I was up at 8am and out to see to the neighbour's cat, I've been cat sitting this week and last.

I then decided to pull all the junk out of the trailer and drag the tractor to the doors and cut the back end off.









I then dismantled the trans in the workshop and brought up the chassis extension to weld on. It fitted perfectly. Just had to take a bit more paint off.









I then practiced my vertical and upside down welding with the stick welder. No major difficulties, just not as pretty but that is less important then strength.
I forgot to take photos until it was painted and pushed back into the trailer so the shots I did get are a bit awkward.

























It will get a coat of black paint before I bring up the rest of the bits.

I am now going to have lunch and then get over to the theatre to start painting the scenery. It is so good to have a bit of ability and strength come back. I just hope I can still paint scenery as well as I used to.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, I know it is a bit on the big side but....


I wanted to sort out the tow hitch this evening. After spending various bits of the day looking at the back of the transaxle I had to make a decision on how I was going to do it.

The Wheelhorse has a 3/4" diameter x 3" long horizontal hole cast into the back of the casing. This used to have a pin holding a heavy bracket that was loose and rattly that had a small hole in the end for impliments to fit onto. I don't know if it is a tractor thing but it was pretty useless for a rigid and conventional towing ball for trailer shunting.
It is also only 5mm from the casing so a big pin only has a tiny bit of hole on the bracket to hang onto.

So, having destroyed the original pin drilling it out I decided to bore the hole to 20mm as I have 20x150mm bolts to hand.

Not intending it to be an oversize, pull a house down, hitch it ended up that way due to having to incorporate a 20mm bolt. I used the bits of 50x50x6mm angle that was cut off from the old chassis.
It was drilled to take the 20mm bolt and also to take my big tow hook. I decided to use the big hook as a standard ball hitch would be too close to the axle and so the wheels would be in the way for turning.
It also made it easier to have the hitch centred on the 20mm bolt as it is a four bolt fixing insead of two for a conventional ball hitch.

I still need to cut the top end of the angles off and then weld a bracket to link it to the two seat bolt holes.
Thse holes are now retapped to M10 as I didn't have any UNC bolts to fit.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> OK, I know it is a bit on the big side but....


Blimey, when Woody thinks it's a bit big....



It's all looking good, you've done so much since the weekend!

I just saw a TV report from Gadaffi's underground bunker in Tripoli, and there was an abandoned golfcart/buggy thing. I thought, quick, get in there and salvage the bits!

You'll make an EV-er of me yet...


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Now that's what I call Woody-built!  You should take the Wee Beastie to London Heathrow and get some video of it tugging A380s around!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

let's see now; cast iron transaxle, 9 inch motor, 72 volts, 15 inch wheels and tires and a class superduty hitch.

I think I've got it.

Woodies Mountain Moving Ltd.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

LOL, you guys crack me up!

I've finished the hitch mount and now have everything painted in red oxide primer.










Now away for the weekend to spend a bit of time with Arch.

I'll reply to your email over the weekend, Jim.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

All the bits are painted, only one coat of satin black for now, and I have started to put the tractor together again.

I have left off the brake calipers and mounts as one of the brackets is a little close to the filler plug. Also if it leaks then there isn't anything difficult to remove or other fluids to deal with.

The hitch doesn't look too big really, well, not compared to the tyres.









One of the links on the gear selector is a little close to the nearside tyre but I can shorten it and it will be fine.

It is good to have it sitting on its wheels again.
When I get it out of the trailer I will be able to determine where the seat will go and if the gear stick is in the way or not.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Moving Mountains by the end of the week?

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Not quite, Jim, I have to get new tyres for the folding bike and do some more painting for the theatre.

I still have to make a water cooling block for the controller but there might be a quick road test on the original 48v Curtis in the meantime.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I fitted the brakes and tried to bleed them and found a couple of 'Doh!' problems.

The first one:
When I rebuilt the linkages to the master cylinders to make a compound link it limited the travel on the cylinder pushrod. That meant that I couldn't push through enough fluid to pump the air out. I had to dismantle the links and make a simple lever to operate the pushrod by hand to get enough travel. Still no good, the lever needs to be slightly cranked and I didn't have anything suitable to work with. The shelving strut I tried the first time bent under the load!

The second one:
With the brake calipers mounted on top of the axle casings it meant the bleed nipple was no longer the highest point being at about the 10 o'clock position relative to the cylinder.
I should really have mounted the cylinders at the back of the axle but as the new transaxle adds about 8-10" to the wheel base I wasn't sure the hoses would reach.
I will have to try re-mounting them and pulling a bit more hose through and routing them differently.

[Sigh!]


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...The second one:
> With the brake calipers mounted on top of the axle casings it meant the bleed nipple was no longer the highest point being at about the 10 o'clock position relative to the cylinder.
> I should really have mounted the cylinders at the back of the axle but as the new transaxle adds about 8-10" to the wheel base I wasn't sure the hoses would reach.
> I will have to try re-mounting them and pulling a bit more hose through and routing them differently.
> ...


When we stretched our bikes out, we used to flip the rear caliper down and make a new torque strut for it - just because we thought it looked better hanging down, than how the factory had them at 12 o'clock. To bleed we just unbolted the torque strut, rotated the caliper up, bled the brake, then put it back down. It's a sealed system, once you get the air out it doesn't "care" what position it's in. Wouldn't that work for you?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I tried taking the caliper off the bracket but because of the shape of the bracket it won't let it travel around the disc unless I pull the U bolts and remove the bracket as well.
I tried having the caliper on the trans with a block of wood between the pads but it kept falling off and spilling the jar of fluid.
It would be easier to just move the whole thing so I don't have to keep having it on and off the axle.

Rather just make it right and make life easier in the long run.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Try this. 

Jack the front end up until the bleed nipple is vertical and the reservoir is the highest point (disconnect the masters and temporally reposition if required) and gravity bleed them system. 

Another alternitive is pressure bleed backwards. Use a pump type oil can hooked to the bleeder with a hose and pump fluid to the reservoir.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It's a little bit stuck in the trailer at the moment, Jim, no head room to work never mind jacking up. I will reposition the calipers to make the job right I think.
However, I will sleep on it and look at it again with a clear head.
The priority at the moment is painting theatre sets but if I have to I will clear some space and roll the tractor out.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've relocated the calipers behind the axle.









It was a bit of a pain shuffling through some of the slack hose and then finding that the axle tubes are not square but rectangular. That meant reshaping the U bolts to fit the taller section of the axle and then cutting the plate holes into slots to fit the wider U bolts then fiddling with the awkward space for winding the nuts on.

However, it is done and much better.

I rigged up a slightly better lever to work the master cylinders and after a few pumps all the air is now out.

The pedals feel a little spongey but looking at it it is all movement in the calipers as the pads compress onto different size discs.

I am happier now.


So, to do:
Parking brake.
Water cooled heat sink.
Change controllers.
Rewire control circuits to remove the reversing switch.
Find another mounting point for the chain tensioner spring.
Make a seat mount and adapt the old chain guard to fit.

Off to a wedding this weekend so that will be it for the time being.


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## SimonRafferty (Apr 13, 2009)

You've done an amazing job there Alfred. I've just spent an hour reading the whole thread - and it's been a good evolution of ideas. I'm impressed how long you've managed to keep at it and stay enthusiastic!

Si


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Simon.

I have been itching to get back at it but it is too cold out there and I lack disposable funds for now. I do keep on top of the batteries though and charge them now and again to keep them topped up.

For now I am working out the chassis design on the trike at the moment.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It's been a while and I had an idea last night, while not able to sleep, and Arch and I implemented it this morning.

I unloaded the tractor from the trailer and then put my bikes in the trailer and tidied up the entrance hall to my house.
The tractor then came inside!

















It will make it so much easier to sort out the fine tuning and sorting that is needed now that the replacement motor and transaxle is attached.

I have found, now I can sit on it, that the gearshift is in the wrong place, right where my left knee should be. That will be relocated. The parking brake needs to be cable operated now, the power cables needs to be shortened and different terminals crimped to the ends.

Then I can start sorting out a seat and rear fenders and a hood over the batteries and an instrument panel. That will be made all the easier as it is now right outside my wood shop so I can see if I can get some wood work on it.
It won't be beautiful bit of craftsmanship as I think for the foreseeable future that part of my life is over so it will just be functional and practical. I will try to keep some sense of style and prettiness to it though, if I can.

Arch, my honey, is wonderful. Not only did she help me sort and clear the space, and help me get the tractor in doors but we also spent the rest of today stripping apart the old MR2, converting it into plastics for the tip, components to use on the trike and scrap metal to weigh in for some cash. For a non car mechanic she was a very quick learner and got into the dismantling with real enthusiasm.
Then again, Arch is as mad as I am, she built a full size paddle boat in her spare bedroom once.

Hopefully in a couple more weekends there will be an MR2 shaped space on my drive way and I can get a bit more house tidying done out there.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

I better just clarify, when he says 'full sized paddle boat' we're not talking about a Mississippi Steamer.... It is a single person pedal powered punt:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6903939735/

But I did build it, with some help from friends, in an empty upstairs bedroom. We checked beforehand that it would get down the stairs.

I'm looking forward to talking to my Mum on the phone next week, when she says "So, what did you do at the weekend" and I'll say "oh, we cleared the hallway..... ....and moved the tractor in there."

I'm trying to decide if, after a pause, she'll say "oh, that's nice!" or "you are bonkers, aren't you?"

Mind you, she dotes on Woodsmith, after he fixed her broken bathroom lightswitch, two days before Christmas.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> It's been a while and I had an idea last night, while not able to sleep, and Arch and I implemented it this morning.


See your head isn't as bent as you've been putting on. You still have good ideas



Woodsmith said:


> I unloaded the tractor from the trailer and then put my bikes in the trailer and tidied up the entrance hall to my house.
> The tractor then came inside!


Man what are you going to do with all that workspace. It looks like you have twice the actual working space you had in the basement, most of the room down there was tools and storage. Now you have a machine shop downstairs and a assembly room upstairs. REAL Hi Tech, keep all that machine and grinding crap out of the final assembly.



Woodsmith said:


> It will make it so much easier to sort out the fine tuning and sorting that is needed now that the replacement motor and transaxle is attached.
> 
> I have found, now I can sit on it, that the gearshift is in the wrong place, right where my left knee should be. That will be relocated. The parking brake needs to be cable operated now, the power cables needs to be shortened and different terminals crimped to the ends.
> 
> ...


I have a feeling that the more creative time you spend on things the faster your recovery will be. The more problems you encounter the faster you will find the ability to overcome them returning to you. 

Get the basics done and worry about beautiful later. Clean workmanship has it's own beauty.

With all of the work you put into that tractor and the short time you had to putt around on it, I say get it driveable and get it outside and play with it.



Woodsmith said:


> Arch, my honey, is wonderful. Not only did she help me sort and clear the space, and help me get the tractor in doors but we also spent the rest of today stripping apart the old MR2, converting it into plastics for the tip, components to use on the trike and scrap metal to weigh in for some cash. For a non car mechanic she was a very quick learner and got into the dismantling with real enthusiasm.
> 
> Then again, Arch is as mad as I am, she built a full size paddle boat in her spare bedroom once.


Arch sure has been a positive happening in your life. For a while there it looked like you went off the deep end with bikes. It looks now like things are sorting out and you can get back to spending a bit of time on the EVs again.



Woodsmith said:


> Hopefully in a couple more weekends there will be an MR2 shaped space on my drive way and I can get a bit more house tidying done out there.


Think about selling off the stripped body panels, doors, hoods and lids, there is usually a good market for those. Put them up on eBay

Just a thought, look at the Portable Sheds/Garage In A Box again, you might just find one that just might fit in that MR2 sized space and would be perfect for the Trike assembly. If you can't afford on a look see might give you the needed dimensions for you to build something out of available salvage.

I'll be in touch, my health took a downturn for a while but I've leveled off again.

Jim (JimDear2)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> See your head isn't as bent as you've been putting on. You still have good ideas


Sometimes that brain cell still works.




Jimdear2 said:


> Man what are you going to do with all that workspace. It looks like you have twice the actual working space you had in the basement, most of the room down there was tools and storage. Now you have a machine shop downstairs and a assembly room upstairs. REAL Hi Tech, keep all that machine and grinding crap out of the final assembly.


Yes, Arch and my folks both noticed that the hallway looked tidier and more spacious with the tractor even though the bikes took up less space!
I will be able to roll the tractor out the door to do any welding or cutting now and work at leisure in the evenings indoors.





Jimdear2 said:


> I have a feeling that the more creative time you spend on things the faster your recovery will be. The more problems you encounter the faster you will find the ability to overcome them returning to you.


That is one of the things about the Arts on Prescription thing that I am doing now, it forces me to get imaginative in my set 2 hour sessions. Nothing focuses the mind like a deadline!



Jimdear2 said:


> Get the basics done and worry about beautiful later. Clean workmanship has it's own beauty.
> 
> With all of the work you put into that tractor and the short time you had to putt around on it, I say get it driveable and get it outside and play with it.


That is sort of the idea now. It needs driving.
The change has added about 10" or so to the wheelbase so the rear tyres are much further away from my heels now. That makes it safer too.





Jimdear2 said:


> Arch sure has been a positive happening in your life. For a while there it looked like you went off the deep end with bikes. It looks now like things are sorting out and you can get back to spending a bit of time on the EVs again.


She is lovely.
The bikes have always been a part of my life and having something I could do when I was at my worst was really useful and kept me going. They are still a part of life and hopefully might even be a source of income in the longer term.





Jimdear2 said:


> Think about selling off the stripped body panels, doors, hoods and lids, there is usually a good market for those. Put them up on eBay
> 
> Just a thought, look at the Portable Sheds/Garage In A Box again, you might just find one that just might fit in that MR2 sized space and would be perfect for the Trike assembly. If you can't afford on a look see might give you the needed dimensions for you to build something out of available salvage.
> 
> ...


I am scrapping the car rather then selling the parts. The owners club has been telling me how valuable a rust free car is, whole or in parts, but no one has been buying. I have spend so much in sellers fees and advertising that I am at risk of losing money on it. Scrapping it is a definate and instant income.

I have thought about building a 'shed' for the trike to be built up in. I figured on using 8'x4' plywood sheets and having an 8'x12' footprint at 8' high. I just need to compare costs and visual and space impacts as it will need to be at the side of the house. Planning regs would prevent a shed forward of the house frontage IIRC.

I hope you health stays well, Jim. Good to see you posting again.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I connected the motor to the controller today. I had to cut the crimped lugs off the cables as the motor has a connector block for terminals. I am not that happy with it so I might remove that and crimp lugs on to the motor cables and bolt the controller cables onto it. I will need a terminal box I think as I don't want the motor cables being stressed from movement. I also put the batteries back into the tractor today and connected up.

First test I got a throttle fault, from the remote hand throttle.
Second test I got a 'missing contactor' fault.
Of course it has a missing contactor, two missing contactors in fact. The transaxle has a reverse gear and so I removed the reversing contactors.

The Curtis 1214 controller manual doesn't have an option for not having the contactors as part of the control circuits.

If I can't find a fix I will swap it for one of the 1209 72V controllers.

Then look for two more batteries and somewhere to put them!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I put in one of the Curtis 1209 controllers and nothing happened.

The controller doesn't even have a flashing light to show if it is live or dead.

I will get a test meter on it another time and see what is going on. Exhausted and headachey now and the manual is a lot to take in like that.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I put in one of the Curtis 1209 controllers and nothing happened.
> 
> The controller doesn't even have a flashing light to show if it is live or dead.
> 
> I will get a test meter on it another time and see what is going on. Exhausted and headachey now and the manual is a lot to take in like that.


That sucks. You did the right thing, walk away and come back to it fresh, when you feel like it. I wish I could do that, but the hot rods often have some pressing deadline that keeps me from being able to step away and refresh my brain. That's where I am now - two weeks to get both cars ready for an event, tired, stressing over some personal crap, and can't step away.

Enjoy the freedom of a totally for fun project!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers, Todd. I don't know if I connected it wrong or missed something.

I had another play, after a break and some tea.

I decided to put the Curtis 1214 controller back and wire in the reversing contactors. A bit of a fiddle as I had cut the power cables and now they were a little short. I got it in the end and then when checking the connections I had B+ and B- the wrong way round.

It was easier to change the cables at the controller end then mess with re terminating the motor end.

Still, that done, it worked.
I can now run the motor in both directions and have 3F1R or 1F3R gears.

Just need to relocate the gear stick and figure a cable parking brake next, and tidy all the excess control wiring that is draped on the floor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...Still, that done, it worked.
> I can now run the motor in both directions and have 3F1R or 1F3R gears....


Awesome! Who's driving in 3R?!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Nice Wood.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had the start of a migraine earlier but a big dose of meds and a sleep has subdued it.

So I got back to the task and moved the gear shift.

I removed the assembly and worked out the furthest back that I could move it on the mounting bolt positions. Turned out to be 110mm so I moved all the bolt holes that distance and shortened the linkages.

It works fine now. The stick is now next to my thigh instead of trying to be behind my knee.

Before position:









After position:

















I did also sustain a little injury, a cut finger, when a 5mm allen key snapped and I bashed into the end of the motor.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Feeling good today so I did a bit of work for Arch in the workshop and then got on with the tractor.

The parking brake is now fitted. I refitted the Mini lever on top of the brake cylinder mounting, as before, and connected the MR2 brake lever cable to it. The cable outer is not secured but rests as a guide over the top of the motor. The other end needed a threaded adjuster and hook for the cable end barrel so I made up one of those and fitted it. An old spring was then hooked on as a return.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Awesome! This is vintage Woody stuff, so good to see!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers, Todd!

More progress but no photos this time.

I fitted a seat. It is the same old plastic school chair I had strapped on it before but this time screwed down onto a pile of plywood that looks a little like an upturned tea chest.
Too shameful to want photos of it on the internet. 

It will work for now though and allow me to set up the rest of it.

I had to bend the gearstick outwards a little to clear the edge of the seat but other then that it cobbled together about as well as a 10 year old's soapbox cart!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I relented, I have recorded everything here so why not the shameful woodwork?


















It really is awful!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

SEAT IS BETTER THAN THE ONE I AM SITTING ON !!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm supposed to be a cabinet maker though.

Still, it is a start. Maybe I will relearn as I make some more bits for the tractor.

I will need to make some steel brackets to fix it to the chassis and then I can use the wood to start mounting fenders over the wheels and covering the vulnerable electrical bits.

Oh, almost forgot.

I drove it. Only a couple of feet back and forth but it works fine.
The chain is a little noisy and the parking brake isn't quite up to stalling the motor in any gear but neither does the foot brake!
So long as it stops it rolling down a steep slope then that will do.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

That looks alright to me! I will inspect it more closely tomorrow...

Anyway, it's a tractor, not a cabinet. It's meant to be a bit... agricultural.

Well done on driving it. You need a bigger hallway to drive round!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Arch said:


> Well done on driving it. You need a bigger hallway to drive round!


I was showing it off to a friend tonight and after a couple of very slow crawls, each, back and forth I decided to show off the acceleration in 3rd gear.
I kept my left foot covering the brakes and then stomped on the throttle, just for a moment and hit the brakes. I almost went through the front door having run over and crushed Mum's shopping trolley!


I think a 9" motor in something that weighs about 300kg may be a bit of overkill!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I think a 9" motor in something that weighs about 300kg may be a bit of overkill!



Woody,

Told you so!

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Told you so!
> 
> Jim


Jim, you wouldn't happen to have ever mentioned just how long that Wheelhorse transaxle might last under such abuse would you?

No point doing any body work in case I have to change it out again...


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Jim, you wouldn't happen to have ever mentioned just how long that Wheelhorse transaxle might last under such abuse would you?
> 
> No point doing any body work in case I have to change it out again...


Woody,

I seem to remember saying something about moving mountains or dragging the islands closer to the US coast.

Actually the three speed transaxle is pretty good . . . but it isn't the strongest Wheelhorse trans out there. Still you got it for a good price and there weren't a lot of choices out there, 

Plus I thought you would still be using the 6.7 inch motor. Yes the 9 inch is a bit of overkill for a yard putter. I think I mentioned that also.

I think that if you can set the controller to a slow throttle ramp and stay at 48 volts you should get good service, plus you won't be turning the tractor over every time you stab the throttle. you might want to sneak up on full throttle to keep the front end down..

You for sure want some kind of fender on it, the seat is good enough for now. Get it outside and use it a bit, see what needs changing and what breaks.

I'm still looking over your shoulder.

By the way, all that moving in and out and tearing down and reassembly, did you remember to put in some axle lube?

Jim


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...may be a bit of overkill!...


Someone want to translate that into plain English for me? I can't seem to figure out what that phrase means? 

Sounds like the Wee Beastie is a blast Woody!


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Todd

And here was me thinking Americans invented "overkill"


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> I think that if you can set the controller to a slow throttle ramp and stay at 48 volts you should get good service, plus you won't be turning the tractor over every time you stab the throttle. you might want to sneak up on full throttle to keep the front end down..


Without a programmer I will need to rely on a gentle right foot for that, or lose the weaker battery and drop to 36V.



Jimdear2 said:


> You for sure want some kind of fender on it, the seat is good enough for now. Get it outside and use it a bit, see what needs changing and what breaks.


Yes, the seat box will hopefully provide a mounting point for the fenders. The axle is a little short of spare bolt holes and I can't weld to it either, being cast iron.



Jimdear2 said:


> By the way, all that moving in and out and tearing down and reassembly, did you remember to put in some axle lube?


Yes, I had to put some in before I clamped the brake calipers on as one of them covers the filler plug. It's not leaked yet but I also haven't found oil seals for the axles and have slipped O rings on for now. They are easy enough to get at when I can get a couple of seals.



toddshotrods said:


> Someone want to translate that into plain English for me? I can't seem to figure out what that phrase means?
> 
> Sounds like the Wee Beastie is a blast Woody!


Cheers, Todd. I think in this case it means more motor than *I* can handle perched on top of a wooden box!



Duncan said:


> Hi Todd
> 
> And here was me thinking Americans invented "overkill"


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Duncan said:


> Hi Todd
> 
> And here was me thinking Americans invented "overkill"


No, that honor goes to the Egyptians for creating those _little_ pyramids. We're just carrying on the tradition. 



Woodsmith said:


> ...Cheers, Todd. I think in this case it means more motor than *I* can handle perched on top of a wooden box!


Lol!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> No, that honor goes to the Egyptians for creating those _little_ pyramids. We're just carrying on the tradition.


And at about the same time the British were moving a few _little_ stones around the country to make some decorative circles.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The tractor has been outside for a run up and down the drive, no more then about 30yrds each way.

It took a while though, the gearing is a little low. First gear is much less then walking speed, third is a little above walking speed. I guess I'm not going to be driving it far.

The plug braking and the very low ratios renders brakes almost unnecessary. Off the throttle and the tractor stops dead at such low speeds. It means that there is no running away on a slope so pottering about is much easier. Efficiency isn't such an issue so having to 'drive it' down a slope is fine.

If I switch to the smaller diameter agri tyres, 28" compared to 32", it will be even slower. Best incorporate a Kindle mount on the steering wheel!

I will ask Arch to test it tomorrow to see if the seat is too high for her. I still have the option to lower it up to 1 1/2" before I make brackets to bolt it down.


It was never an aspect of the design but the tractor is less then 2" narrower then my house doors.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Video of Arch on the tractor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Unbelievably, awesome_ly_, cool Woody and Arch! 

I can't believe you make me smile incessantly, for a _tractor_!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Lovely. Just needs bits of tin strung about in a steam punk sort of way to hide things. 

NO, I don't believe you that it was happenstance that the tractor is 2" smaller than the doors.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Todd, Piotrsko

Seriously, never measured the front door, I only ever intended the tractor to leave the house in bits to be assembled outside and then stay out there.



I have bought a cheap cycle computer to fit on it later, the sensor lead needs extending and brackets making up to hold the magnet and sensor head.

I took the opportunity to weigh the tractor, just by jacking up a front a rear wheel and resting them each on a bathroom scale.
The front wheel was 77kg, the rear 113kg giving 154kg F and 226kg R.

That gives a 380kg weight with a 40/60 F/R weight distribution without driver.

The thing is, when I used to have a Harley Davidson parked there I placed an 8x4 sheet of plywood on the floor to spread the weight and then put acrow props underneath to transfer the load from the floor joists to the concrete basement floor.
The Harley only weighed 330kg.

I think I will need to put those acrow props back in the basement!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Yes, I think some additional bracing might be good! If for no other reason than to stop me feeling nervous down in the basement... 

Great fun to drive! I like the slow pace, I'm used to it with the Bradshaw burden carrier we have at work, and it means I have plenty of time to think ahead! Nice turning circle too. I'm just glad Woody didn't put me under the additional stress of filming me trying to reverse it back into the house, but instead gave me helpful 'left lock, right lock, straighten up' kind of instructions.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, you know me, Arch, sensible down to Earth kinda person.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Well, you know me, Arch, sensible down to Earth kinda person.


You'll be down to earth pretty quickly if you sit on the tractor and it goes through the floor!


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Woodsmith said:


> I think a 9" motor in something that weighs about 300kg may be a bit of overkill!





toddshotrods said:


> Someone want to translate that into plain English for me? I can't seem to figure out what that phrase means?


I believe it roughly translates to incorporating engineering margin in the design for unexpected use cases and future upgrades. It is a common practice actually - you should see what this one guy on here is doing to a model T.

I always love seeing the project finally move on its own power. Still lots of little details to wrap up, but you can see the result of all of your work. I love the pictures. Congrats on getting to this point.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks Joey, I do enjoy working on the tractor, it is great smile enducer and 'pick me up'.

We have been into the basement and installed some timber and acrow props and the tractor is now safe from falling through a 140 year old floor. 

Being me I did, of course, sustain another minor injury. While shifting a tiny little bit of timber packing under the jack, when I was weighing the tractor, I managed to sprain two fingers in my right hand. They are now making their presence felt from my knuckles right up my forearm.

Oh well, an easy and restful evening for me now.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Well you know how long it took me to download on dial_up ...

But I did!

And it was great.. ( I still have the one of your Dad riding round )

Keep your fingers and toes and keep up the good work. 

!!!!


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Congrats Woody; not so much for your work but for finding a woman who can execute U turns so efficiently. She puts the sword to all the "woman
driver" jokes.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Well you know how long it took me to download on dial_up ...
> 
> But I did!
> 
> ...


Cheers Dave, I do think of you whenever I upload a video, I'm glad you are enjoying them.



poprock1 said:


> Congrats Woody; not so much for your work but for finding a woman who can execute U turns so efficiently. She puts the sword to all the "woman
> driver" jokes.


Arch is great! One of those people who are not burdened with the latest fashions, shoes, and handbags (except those she designs and makes to sell), very down to Earth and practical.
A wonderful find indeed.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

poprock1 said:


> Congrats Woody; not so much for your work but for finding a woman who can execute U turns so efficiently. She puts the sword to all the "woman
> driver" jokes.


Aw, shucks... 

I've driven a few odd things in my time (the downplated 12.5 tonne ex-mobile library springs to mind), and my work sees me driving a little EV truck with the steering wheel on the wrong side round small city streets so I'm not so bad... Thinking about it, I drive EV far more than ICE these days. Ask Woody about my tendency to misjudge kerbs when parking though...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have fitted the cycle computer.

I decided to fit the speed sensor on the front wheel with an aluminium bracket on the axle and the magnet on a tab bolted to the hub.

















The sensor is nicely tucked away inside the wheel dish.









The wiring was extended and the computer fitted to the temporary dash panel.

I went for a quick drive to see how fast I would be able to push it and peaked at 7mph before I was bouncing out of the seat. I think that is close to the speed limit but not quite full throttle.

On a smooth road, and with a chain guard for safety, I might get a bit closer to 10mph but it is quite fast enough for around here.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had to rework the steering arm on the top of the kingpin. There was a bit too much play developing and it was getting a bit wobbly.

The original kingpin was very short and only left a tiny stump to mount the steering arm to.

















I couldn't reduce the play in it so today I decided to rework it.

First off I needed to extend the kingpin. I ground the end to a conical point and then did likewise to a length of 3/4" round bar that had a 1/2" thread cut on the end. I clamped both bits to a length of angle iron and welded all around to join it checking it stayed straight. I then ground and filed it round.
Sorry no photos of all this as I was trying to get done before dinner.

I then made a new steering arm attachment by welding a couple of 1/4" plates to a bit of 3/4" bore pipe. The plate was drilled to take three M8 bolts and the gap between the plates cut out so the pipe could be clamped over the king pin. The steering arm was then welded back on in the same orientation as before

A spacer was made so a 1/2" nut could be used to secure the kingpin.

Fitted back on to the tractor it seems to work ok on friction alone. I will test it tomorrow.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Vintage Woody!  Maybe S.W.A.T., or whatever they're called on that side of the pond, could use this tractor to bust through concrete walls, into buildings, to get the bad guys!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Nah, we don't do things like that over here. We have H&S regulations!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rowning-man-3ft-deep-lake-half-boot-deep.html



I checked the steering and there is a little slippage in the new joint. I guessed friction wouldn't really be enough but I thought it would have been better.
I decided to drill and tap in three M8 set screws as keys. That seems to have sorted it.

At the same time I also fitted a towing ball to the front for nosing trailers about.
I made the mistake originally of fitting the front with four bolts at 3" centers, the tow ball fitting is 90mm centers. I decided that it was easier to open out the holes on an old towball to fit 3" centers then to rework the front of the tractor. The ball won't be used on the road nor for anything near its maximum loading so I guess it doesn't matter as much at the front. It won't be used on any other vehicle.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Up until now the process for recharging the tractor has been to dismantle the front end to pull all the batteries out and then recharge them on the floor one at a time. Don't have a 48v charger for them and probably won't for a while as there is little rush to charge up.

Today I decided to have a dig around my Dad's stores and found some bits to sort this out. I found 4 female IEC power plugs moulded onto leads and a male right angle IEC rewireable plug.

The female plugs will each be wired to a battery and the male plug to the charger so I can plug the charger into each battery in turn without removing the batteries for charging.

I made up a simple wooden device to hold all the female plugs together in a block to go on the tractor dash. 
First the plugs were clamped between two pieces of oak, screwed together, to keep their positions. I then cut a piece of plywood with a slot and glued it to the front of the oak to form a recessed set of plugs.
Got a bit of blood on the ply as I sharpened a chisel for the first time in nearly a year!

































It will do as a mk1 version and I can make a better one later on when I have a better idea of where they will need to be sited on the tractor body.
I will wire them in tomorrow, with fuses, when the glue is properly dry.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking good! Wish I had the patience to do that sort of work Sorry to hear about your health problems. Glad to see your getting back into the saddle!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers jack.

I have been feeling better and improving weekly.
Damned migraines are back but less troublesome then my illness overall so I can do more on the good days.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Nice idea Woody. We were planning to put some lead in the back of the Model E for the next promo video, just to make it move on screen. I should do something like that to make charging them up easier.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

We've just crunched some numbers and in theory, with new batteries the tractor will have a 47mile range at 7mph!

Probably half that with transmission friction though.

I will need to find a way to work it out accurately given the losses and plug braking loads.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

An 'eco' friend of mine has been meeting with a local 'green' farmer and told him about my tractor. The farmer wants to see it and trial it on the farm!

Not really sure it is a farm tractor, I was going to add a big winch and use it as a timber tractor. Still, if it can pull stuff about....

I had better get it looking more tractor like and weather proof. Best get a heat sink on the controller too.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Ha Ha it will haul a lot of manure 
Get around in all that muck and mire....
.................


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## greif (Jun 26, 2010)

I would love to build a mid size elec tractor with loader, maybe someday
Gary


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> An 'eco' friend of mine has been meeting with a local 'green' farmer and told him about my tractor. The farmer wants to see it and trial it on the farm!
> 
> Not really sure it is a farm tractor, I was going to add a big winch and use it as a timber tractor. Still, if it can pull stuff about....
> 
> I had better get it looking more tractor like and weather proof. Best get a heat sink on the controller too.


Woody,

Hey if you get the chance go out and play and see what breaks.

Those rear tires just won't do it in any kind of swamp or muck if you try pulling anything.

If you go , pictures please.

JIm


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> ...If you go , pictures please.
> 
> JIm


What ^^^ he said!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am really hoping nothing much does break this time, if it does I will end up with a full scale transaxle from a grey Fergie!
There will be pictures, and I will take the pair of Agri tread tyres with me as well. The current truck tyres are fine on hard ground but the Agri one will be better in the dirt.




greif said:


> I would love to build a mid size elec tractor with loader, maybe someday
> Gary


I have been playing with the idea of adding a hydraulic pump to the tailshaft of the motor. I have one spare from a fork truck pump motor I could use, complete with oil tank. I figured I could use it to run a hydraulic winch and maybe a small front end loader or my little loader crane. That will make it more useful all round.


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## greif (Jun 26, 2010)

If I ever do build one I think I would go with a seperate motor for pump so I can turn off as needed to save battery since powering a pump all the time sucks lots of juice. 
Take care
Gary


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have an electric clutch from an AC compressor, weighs less then a second motor.
I must try it and see though as I will also need a 12v supply.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I have a couple of forklift pump motor assemblies. One is 24v from a pallet jack the other is 36v from a small truck. Either is yours for the cost of postage if any help.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> I have a couple of forklift pump motor assemblies. One is 24v from a pallet jack the other is 36v from a small truck. Either is yours for the cost of postage if any help.


Thank you!

For fear of over speeding the 24v one on 48v I guess the 36v one would be best. My pump motor is 80v!

What would postage be on that please?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know. Might be cheaper to use DPD via work due to the weight.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers jack, really good of you.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Tomorrow I will be taken to visit a local organic farmer, one of many, who is interested in both some advice on irrigation and electric tractors.
I don't know what she thinks I know about tractors, electric or otherwise, but irrigation is chucking water on vegetables isn't it?


She has been looking at The Flying Beet electric Allis Chalmers G.
I reckon, if we can get the parts together and find a model G, that will be an easy conversion.


Anyway, I finally got around to connecting up the charging plugs to my tractor and have the batteries on charge, one at a time, in case I need to take it to demonstrate.
Slight problem of a scaffold tower in front of my house doors blocking the tractor's exit though. 


In other news, my doctor has told me off, my blood pressure is much too high. It has always been normal until I became ill.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I don't know what she thinks I know about tractors, electric or otherwise, but irrigation is chucking water on vegetables isn't it?
> ...


 Just hook the Wee Beastie up to a lake or river and drag it over to her farm!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Just hook the Wee Beastie up to a lake or river and drag it over to her farm!


I will be taking the Wee Beastie over there in a couple of weeks to hook up to anything that moves to see what it will pull.

I'm not expecting much as I don't have the weight or traction in the dirt but it will give some current and voltage reading to try and determine some sort of Wh/mile reading.

The farm is a small market garden type of place and one plot bed would only require 1100 metres of driving, 11 x 100m rows. We are hoping for 2-3 plot beds in a day at most.

Main concern now is security from the theft risk of the copper cables and lead acid batteries.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Sorry forgot all about the pump! Been mad recently. Will check it out next week and get shipped.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

No rush jack, I have been rushed too, hence BP shooting up so I am going to slow down big time.

Hasn't stopped me starting a new project though!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I changed the big 31" truck tyres for some smaller 28" agri tyres today. They were tucked under my trailer outside for most of the year and have that tangy smell of local cat pee! 

The rims are a little rusty so I may try to get them wire brushed and painted at some point.









I also found a suitably sized box for a temporary makeshift hood over the batteries. Quite apt given the tractor 'flat packed' when I brought it up out of the basement workshop! 









I also made a wooden remote throttle pot. 
It is a sandwich of Cherry/Oak/Cherry and waxed. It makes it a little nicer to hold in the hand and keeps all the connections together and safe.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

I love the bonnet. When I got in yesterday, at first glance I thought you'd made a nice wooden box....


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

If you two should separate who gets custody of the Ikea allen key?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

You DO know that slider pots tend to get erratic because of dirt getting in, right?

keep a good can of contact cleaner about, perhaps.

Like the bonnet design.


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## Thaniel (May 25, 2008)

Woodsmith, Love your thread. Cutting the splines with an angle grinder for the first motor was an inspiration. Ive never considered doing that. So many parts made with reasonable tools is great. However reading the thread has got me wanting a lathe really bad.

Thank you for posting your projects.

Thaniel


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

poprock1 said:


> If you two should separate who gets custody of the Ikea allen key?


I'm a modern woman, I bring my own allen keys to the relationship....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> You DO know that slider pots tend to get erratic because of dirt getting in, right?
> 
> keep a good can of contact cleaner about, perhaps.
> 
> Like the bonnet design.


Yes, I know, but thank you for the reminder. The slider pot is also an old one taken from an Amp that was already old before I got it about 25 years ago so I am grateful it is still working!

It works well enough for now to drive the tractor in and out of my box trailer as there isn't the head room for me to sit in the seat. I am hoping it will be sufficient for steady throttle testing, pulling an implement, when I get it over to the client's farm for a trial.
After that it becomes less important, I just wanted to pretty it up a bit before a client saw it as it was a sticky mass of electrical tape before.

When I make the proper dash panel I will fit a friction lever that presses on the throttle pedal, maybe, for hand control and then get a new pot for the remote control aspect.


This afternoon I finally got around to bolting the seat down to the chassis, no more bouncing the seat off when driving over cobbles!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Yes, I know, but thank you for the reminder. The slider pot is also an old one *taken from an Amp* that was already old before I got it about 25 years ago so I am grateful it is still working!


Hey, does that mean your tractor goes all the way up to 11? 

(Not even sure if you've seen Spinal Tap?)


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Arch said:


> Hey, does that mean your tractor goes all the way up to 11?
> 
> (Not even sure if you've seen Spinal Tap?)


 Your innuendo would have been lost on me if I hadn't seen the piece on the news yesterday about the demise of Jim Marshall of Marshall amps' fame.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Haha, if it goes to 11 anything then it is its top speed of 11kph (6.8mph)!

However, given the opportunity to full throttle the motor in neutral I think I will have to limit it to something much lower then 11!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I built up the 'transmission tunnel' today.

I used cardboard to mock up the locations of the cutout for the brake pedal and the hole for the parking brake. Then I cut some 'found' 4mm plywood board that used to part of a theatre set hence the ASBO green paint.
















It will be satin black soon.


It will do for now to keep weather off the brake assembly and the reversing contactors and give me somewhere to mount the stereo and cupholders!

I will need to remove it and work it a bit as the front end is unsupported and the controller still needs to come out to have a heatsink fitted. That will change the layout a bit as it would then move the controller too close to the button on the brake lever.

I have been playing about with ideas for a skeletal trailer for taking it to the farm but I think I will be better using my big box trailer for now rather then bodging something that is only a use once effort. 
Also the trailer axle I had was an unknown quantity and after a careful bit of paint removal I found the makers tag. Al-Ko (nice) but only 400KG at 25kph.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I decided that fancy bodywork is all very well but that would be no good if the controller over heats on the first proper test.

I have a bit of aluminium plate 60" long, 17" wide, 5/8" thick. It had some holes drilled into it and so I would have to work around those to make a water filled heatsink. I decided that as I would need to cut the end off the plate off to lose the holes I could just use that piece as a heatsink plate for the time being. It is 9"x17" and not ideal but good enough for now. Must get some heaksink paste next time I am out to go between the two.

It meant repositioning the controller as there isn't space between the steering column and parking brake for it so I moved it all it the top of the battery pack. The benefits of being a little generous with motor cable length.









I then fitted the now black seat and tunnel.









And fitted a 'cyclist's' cup holder.









Just need to find a suitable cubby box now.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...And fitted a 'cyclist's' cup holder...
> ...Just need to find a suitable cubby box now.


Creature comforts on a tractor!!!!  You and your honey planning a road trip through Europe on this thing?!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Creature comforts on a tractor!!!!  You and your honey planning a road trip through Europe on this thing?!


We were just joking about all the car paraphernalia you find around the parking brake lever, cup holder, cubby box, cig lighter, mobile phone, electric window switches....

....Hmmmm, electric windows....

Needs a stereo!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> We were just joking about all the car paraphernalia you find around the parking brake lever, cup holder, cubby box, cig lighter, mobile phone, electric window switches....
> ....Hmmmm, electric windows....
> Needs a stereo!


*Needs a CB radio, right Todd?*


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> *Needs a CB radio, right Todd?*


Do you still have CB over there?
I thought it was all cell phones.

I should fit bluetooth to stream music from my phone.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Oh Yes..... It is the "Nonsense" Band and well --- different sides of the pond on that joke lol...

I have been a licensed "Ham" Radio operator forever... (took my code and theory 

And to put it intelligently you need GPS, internet, iod, text, cell, and two-way communication on board. But in my warped way it would still be great to see you with an 8' whip antenna on the back ...


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Lol! Too funny! 

I was actually going to suggest a phone dock or bluetooth module. That's what I will be using in Schism. Actually, I am going to use a smart phone app for the gauges too. So that one little screen will entertain _and_ inform.

With your estimated top speed it would probably be easier for you to keep track of all the information on the tiny screen, while also head-bobbing to your favorite tunes.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Don't forget the bobble-head and statue of St. Mary. I don't know if they have dingle balls in the UK.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You guys make my day!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I still don't have a sensible hood over the batteries and controller yet but I found some Phenolic board with a white uPVC skin, 5mm thick. Not sure what to do with it yet as the sheets are only 15"x24" and I can't bend them and haven't figured a good way to edge joint them.

I did use some to make an under tray for the chassis though. It will keep any splashing away from the contactors and the motor, at least from underneath*.
I decided to pop rivet them in place and found some 5mm rivets that were long enough.
Just over half way through the riveter broke! My Dad's riveter is too small and my other riveter would have required laying the tractor on its side to be able to get underneath.

Oh well, I'll buy a new riveter tomorrow maybe.



* I still need to make a dust/weather cover over the motor CE to stop muck from the back wheels getting in there.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have started on the bodywork begining with the 'radiator grill panel'.

I found that the phenolic board glues quite well with araldite so I have been experimenting with it. The panel was cut to the size and shape I wanted and a small strip glued near to the bottom edge to shed water. Two strips were then glued to the sides so that side panels can be screwed to them.


















I am playing around with lights at the moment to see if I set two lights into the panel or mount them out board on brackets. With only 11" width I am a bit limited for space.

The hood will be folded from some sheet metal and will overhang the front panel recessing it. The back edge of the hood will also overhang the dash panel to keep weather off it.

I think I will need to get a DC-DC converter to run the lights.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I love the shape.  It's tall and narrow, and kind of classic shaped; not low and wide like a modern tractor would normally be.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd, I like the look but the material isn't gluing too well, I will rethink it. I made up the side panels and screwed them in place using M5 pan head stainless screws but the glued flanges kept breaking off on one side only.








The hood line will continue the projecting edge of the side panels.

Today I took off the dash panel and decided to reorganise the wiring for the proper dash.









I wasn't happy with the location of the controller, it is being compressed onto the batteries by the ratchet strap and there wasn't anything else there to put it on.
I decided to move it again and put it under the seat so the motor cables are nice and short.
That was a lot of work. The heat sink was too long so I hack sawed 40mm from the end of it. I then had to dismantle the seat frame to lower the side rails 16mm so the heat sink could rest on it upside down. In doing so I found that he frame wasn't quite square and so I ended up re cutting and messing with it to square it up.








Hmmm, I have a seat heater!

The cables were a tight fit to have them short enough to tuck under the the controller and long enough to be able to make the connections. I didn't want to cut up the long cables so I was trying to use the short ready made ones that were on the ClubCar motor.
Then I had to re make the loom for the control wiring and try to get that in there too.
Eventually it all fitted.
Being under the seat I wouldn't be able to see the LED flash to check fault codes and to see that the controller is happy.
I cut a hole and then put a cover over it!









The rest of the wiring was just fiddling about finding better cable routes and locations. I moved the main contactor from the back of the battery tray to the old controller mount and then called it a day so I could test to see if it all still worked.

I had a brief crisis of confidence when it came to switching on the main isolator switch. With no dash panel I was holding the isolator switch in my hand and the thoughts ran through my mind of a wiring fault blowing up the controller, or the batteries, or melting the isolator switch in my hand.
I decided to have a cup of tea and think it through. It was fine and nothing blew up.
However the contactor wasn't working, but I traced that to wiring the key switch the wrong way round. That sorted and it was fine.

Then I got a shock from the isolator switch.

I was thinking it was the 48V from the pack but it could have been something else.
The key switch was on, the contactor was off and my hand was bridging the isolator switch terminals.

Oh well, I'll sleep on it for now.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I decided to have a cup of tea and think it through. It was fine and nothing blew up.


Why does that always work for Englishmen ....

LoL looking good Wood....


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Remember they are responsible for the prince of darkness, LUCAS electrics.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Why does that always work for Englishmen ....


Maybe because we know how to brew a proper cup of tea?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I finally got around to shaping and fitting the dash panel today. It meant extending the height of the side panels and fortunately the phenolic panels I found had edge jointing plastic extrusions so I used them and they can be a 'go faster stripe'!

















This is the driver's eye view.








I drew a pencil line on the dash to show the visible area through the steering wheel where the instruments will be fitted.

The hood will overlap the top of the dash to provide some weather protection and solar glare.

You can see that the dash is wider then the rest of the bodywork. That will allow the hood to be wider at the rear then the front and create an overhang as a design feature.

I am torn between beating some metal to make a hood or making a woody hood. I think the woody hood will win as it will be nicer to make and I don't have any 1" steel plate left to bash into a hood shape.

I can't wait to get the Cycle Analyst so I can start planning the instrument layout.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

We have wood!

I started the wooden hood today. I had a rummage in my workshop and found some bits of English Oak that came out of an old sideboard cabinet that I dismantled.
The pieces were just long enough to make the hood length.

I have edged the first two pieces for the top of the hood. 

























The curved parts will be made by mitering a length of 70x30mm oak stick, from the same cabinet, to 22.5deg and jointing it on between the top and side pieces. The thickness of the sticks will allow the outside surface to be planed to a curve while the inside edge remains flat between the dash and front panels for location. The visible parts will be shaped and curved to follow the profile of the outside of the hood.

There are a lot of screw holes and old surface finish to clean up and repair but at least it uses some existing timber rather then buying new.

Just having a proper cup of tea now before carrying on.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> We have wood!...
> 
> ...I have edged the first two pieces for the top of the hood...
> 
> ...The curved parts will be made by mitering a length of 70x30mm oak stick, from the same cabinet, to 22.5deg and jointing it on between the top and side pieces. The thickness of the sticks will allow the outside surface to be planed to a curve while the inside edge remains flat between the dash and front panels for location. The visible parts will be shaped and curved to follow the profile of the outside of the hood...


Nice, me like!  I love the view from the "Captain's Chair" - that peak is so awesome!  I can't wait to see it with the rolled corners. How are you joining the wood pieces?





Woodsmith said:


> ...There are a lot of screw holes and old surface finish to clean up and repair but at least it uses some existing timber rather then buying new...


Maybe you can capitalize on them and give it a faux, well-used, antique appearance?





Woodsmith said:


> ...Just having a proper cup of tea now before carrying on....


Enjoying a "proper" mug of coffee, waiting for the show to resume...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd! 

I am mitering and gluing the pieces edge to edge. Just spent the time since the last post planing the corner pieces. The first two bits are glued at the moment and strapped up on the bench curing. I should be be able to put it to one side in about an hour and glue the next one.

For the corners I was going to use a length of matching oak but I found that it had mortices cut in it that didn't allow enough good usable length so I opted for some ash instead. The grain structure will be similar but much paler, another go faster stripe!
Maybe I can stain it to match.

The corners are much thicker pieces, 30mm against the 10mm panels. They are just being glued in at 45deg to make big chunky faceted corners for now but they are thick enough for me to plane them round to get the profile.

I am doing it as bodge it together thing with minimal measurements, just left to right comparisons against a few pencil marks.
I have found that the dash panel, mounted on the steering column isn't central, the column is a few mm over to the right. It wouldn't matter as much but with all these angles and miters a few mm throws everything out a long way.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Here is the second panel to be glued up.
Most of the alignment is by masking tape and the clamps are to just support the ends until the glue cures.









The one I did earlier shows how the curved sections will be made from the Ash stick.








I will shape the outside by planing and the inside will only be shaped where it shows at the front and back edges.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

That's going to work well Woody. I'm kind of curious to see what the two-toned wood looks like when you get it all glued up and the corners planed down. It might be pretty nice. I like Ash. At least the varieties I have seen, have had interesting detail in the grain.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

In many ways I am not even thinking much about how it will look.
Ash has a similar open grain look as Oak and that is the only reason I chose it. Also I didn't have anything other English oak that was the right size. I have plenty American oak but it is not different enough and would look more like a simple mismatch or mistake.

I am very tempted to just stain the Ash and Oak to the same colour.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I decided to hack away at the Ash this afternoon to get a fit around the front panel.

I just marked the position of the cutaway and then set to with a chisel and a template.








The one on the right needs to be cut back a bit further.

This is how it looks on the tractor.

















The surface is rough for now as I will refine to a closer fitting later, once the back end is fitted over the dash panel.

The Ash is a little too narrow but it is close enough to refine the edge down to nearer the 5mm of the phenolic panels. I may include a closer strip in the ridge between the oak panels as a feature.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Late evening in the workshop. This is soooooo good, I am remembering so much about what I am doing as I am doing it.

This is where I started from after dinner tonight. The hood fitted on and adjusted until the centre line gap closed up.









I then began planing the curve onto the outside of the Ash.

















Both sides done and the old varnish scraped off the Oak.

























I have cut some tapered Oak side panels for the hood and with great difficulty I have one set up gluing tonight. I will see how it works out in the morning and then glue the other side.
It is awkward as I didn't make any jigs and so have left myself the awkwardness of cramping up tapered boards with mitred joints against curved wood! Much masking tape, cramps, packing, propping and and stapling to keep it all in position!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Late evening in the workshop. This is soooooo good, I am remembering so much about what I am doing as I am doing it.


Yay!




> It is awkward as I didn't make any jigs and so have left myself the awkwardness of cramping up tapered boards with mitred joints against curved wood! Much masking tape, cramps, packing, propping and and stapling to keep it all in position!


It's a shame I had to go home, or I could have been an extra pair of hands!

Mind you, I might have had to stand there all night holding it firm. Would you have brought me a cup of tea every so often?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It seems the Arts on Prescription therapy is working and bringing my confidence back. It means I am much more relaxed about doing and less concerned about how I do it. I am finding that as I work I am instinctively starting to just reach for the right tools and using them without too much thought.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

That's awesome Woody. Reading the narrative in the last few posts sure does "feel" like classic Woody. 

Edit: Forgot to say - the hood looks great!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I still have one half of the hood gluing following a slight accident when I uncramped it before the glue was completely cured and then dropped it!

The other side is now nearly there.

















Just need to get the other side to the same point and then I can trim it to size.
A part of me wants to put a long piano hinge along the centre joint but I would need to weather proof it with a rubber seal underneath.

I also have headlights delivered this morning. Ebay link. They need bayonet dip/main bulbs though and I have never seen any of them.

The Cycle Analyst came this morning too. I will read the instructions later and then check its functions and and do a write up of installation and set up. Need to decide where it will fit on the dash though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have planed the other side of the hood and tried for size.

























Maybe tomorrow I will start shaping the edges. For now I am exhausted from all the hand working, planes, cabinet scrapers, chisels, not a power tool or abrasive paper in sight! Just how I like to work.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Beee - ute - tiful Woody!  You know I've been waiting for this day (to see this labor of love become a "woodie") - it's worth every second! I love it!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd! 

I am so tempted to now start changing those white phenolic panels to wood too!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers Todd!
> 
> I am so tempted to now start changing those white phenolic panels to wood too!


I was thinking that, but didn't want to be a troublemaker.  Since _you_ mentioned it - it would be awesome to see more Woodsmith in place of them!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, phenolic panels would be better used for mounting electrical bits to....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I just won these on Ebay.

I figured I could put the AC ones back on Ebay to get some money back but one of those 600A (700A peak?) gauges would look great on the tractor next to the old voltmeter!

Just need to figure the size of the shunt needed.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

My vote for all Wood!! Always could screw phenolic panels on the back (inside) for electrics -- The woodies look is all you!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am tending that way myself, I just need to see how much pre-used timber I have available to keep with the 'made of scrap' theme.

I found one of the hood sections was a slightly different fit to the other, the angle was slightly more acute and so the side part was pulling in a bit, only a couple of mm but it was enough to bug me. The fault was in the first joint between the top of the hood and the Ash and it just pulled the Ash inwards enough to make it slightly wrong.

I decided to fix it. I had to saw down the glue joint with a Japanese Hassunme saw and then plane the mitre to a slightly different angle and reglue it.









The angle is now the same as the other side. When it is cured (and I will make sure it is left the full 24 hours this time) I can clean and refine the shape of the curved section again.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, more photos.

I made up an Oak front panel with some Iroko battens glued to the rear edges. The side panels are still screwed to it as I managed to drill and tap M5 holes into the Iroko.

The hood fits a lot better and looks nicer too. I am still uncertain about whether or not to stain the Ash or leave it. I am tempted to leave it rather then make it look like I am trying to pretend it isn't Ash.

































The rear edge of the hood still needs to be trimmed to length but before I do that I had to decide on the dash.

I have started gluing some more Oak together to make a wider panel for it.










In the meantime I touched the +ve and -ve leads of the cycle Analyst to the battery pack and registered 49.8V so it appears to work and look quite brightly back lit.
I will need to figure the best location for it based on keeping the big vintage voltmeter and figuring a shunt to use the smaller aircraft ammeter.

Digital is all very good but nothing beats a moving needle on a dial!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Stain it all - pop the grain out make it classic - gotta love it in wood....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I love this hood Woody!  I vote for unstained, natural finish, letting the Ash be a feature in the design. Did you glue the halves together yet? I like your idea of an Ash strip between the top halves. You did mention that, didn't you?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I did mention an Ash strip, yes.

I am tending to leaving it natural. Thinking about it, if I made a mess of the staining then I would be sawing out the Ash and making a new bit! I am a bit perfectionist like that.

The Ash strip was an idea when I wasn't sure the middle would line up, it would be a bodging filler. I could still add it even if the Oak is glued.
I haven't glued it yet as it is easier to work on in two halves and I still need to figure how to locate and latch it to the rest of the body.

Also I want some kind of mascot on the front and need to figure out how to do that. And do I put the headlights in the front panel or sticking out on the sides? That will determine the decoration I do to the front panel.
Headlights in makes a face I can carve 'Thomas the Tank Engine' style, headlights out and it is just a grille.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...Also I want some kind of mascot on the front and need to figure out how to do that. And do I put the headlights in the front panel or sticking out on the sides? That will determine the decoration I do to the front panel.
> Headlights in makes a face I can carve 'Thomas the Tank Engine' style, headlights out and it is just a grille.


I was wondering what was going up there. I figured you weren't going to have just a blank "sheet" of wood. I like the idea of the headlights being in that panel, and the thought of you carving "a face" in it, based on the two peepers is very intriguing...


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Ha Ha ok leave it - I just meant the kind of stain that pops out the grain not covers the wood...... Then clear-coat to save. The different woods give it class !

Too bad you can't latch the top and hinge each side so you could open it up that way - like some old roadsters --- oh well it still looks great....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I could hinge it. I was thinking of a hinge in the middle but hadn't considered hinges at the sides. Might be worth investigating a bit further.

I will leave the wood natural and just add a coat or two of weatherproof varnish.




My ammeters have just arrived!
Need to work out what size shunt I need now.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

During a break in the rain I managed to get up the scaffold tower and get some more work done on the house. Just managed to get it all complete and the tower back down before the rain came.

I then went into the workshop and cut out the Oak dashboard.

















Stopped for tea, it has been a long day, to think about the instrument layout.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Gotta be Smiths gauges


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Pity I didn't have any Burl Walnut veneer, I could fit a drinks cabinet in the glovebox!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, I'm a bit stumped now.
I have been playing with the aircraft ammeter and have figured it takes 36mV to get to the 600A FSD.

I can't measure the internal resistance, too high for my DDM, and can't measure the current through the ammeter as it is too small.

Hmmm, I might have to rig up a 600A load and make up a working shunt that way.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I managed to spend a bit of time on the dash this evening.

I decided to just fit the Cycle Analyst for now, as it works and tells me everything I need to know. I will sort out the volt and amp analogue gauges later.

I positioned the CA centred at the top of the visible area of the dash. A rectangular hole was cut with a coping saw and the front edge rounded over with a router. The back edge needed to be relieved in a couple of places to clear parts of the circuit board.

Front.









Back.









The cutouts.









I needed to put the little button switch and decided on a central spot above the CA hidden from driver sight by the steering wheel rim.
I drilled a counter bored hole and hexagonised the front to retain the nut. The hole was then routed to match the CA hole.
Fitting the switch meant locating the nut and then rotating the switch from behind together with the whole CA. I figured it would be quicker then cutting the switch off and resoldering it!

















I then had an accident. While drilling the hole for the isolator switch I dropped the dash and managed to rip the wires off the back of it. The soldered connections managed to tear off a small amount of circuit board track.
I had to carefully scrap the lacquer off the board and solder the wires to the track. Then I needed to test it.

I fitted the dash and touched the wires to the pack.

















Well, the CA lives!

I don't know if the shunt connection works yet so I have been sorting out the high current wiring.
The shunt is fitted and the main fuse fitted. All the high current cables are fitted except for the main pack to isolator link. It was getting late and Arch had left me to work as she was tired. I decided not to connect up until I had a sleep and a chance to double check the wiring.

Anyway, next job, all being well, is to remove the dash again and fit the remote control socket, volt meter and ammeter, if I can figure a shunt for that too.
Once all that is done I can strip the dash and sand all the cutouts and edges to clean it up.


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm loving the combo of wood and electronics. The pictures are great. If you are taking votes, I would go for contrasting wood finish. Can't wait to see the wooden version of the tractor moving outside.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Joey said:


> I'm loving the combo of wood and electronics. The pictures are great. If you are taking votes, I would go for contrasting wood finish. Can't wait to see the wooden version of the tractor moving outside.


I think it will be left contrasting, and I may add more Ash to highlight it more. 

One thing I dislike is applying varnish, I am going to have to get a good polyurathane waterproof varnish on it before it goes outside. It appears to be 'monsoon season' over here hence we have drought warnings and hosepipe bans in place, alongside the flood warnings!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

More work done today.

I spent a bit of time sorting out the cables to get somewhere to connect the low current 48V stuff to. I used two earthing blocks to provide -ve and +ve terminal points. I am currently not using the +ve one as it is unfused after the main pack fuse. I will put an inline fuse there or replace it with a small fuse board. It all depends on how much 48V stuff needs to be connected to it.

I then fitted the big voltmeter, the reversing switch and the socket for the remote control lead.
At the same time I decided to cover and protect the back of the CA circuit board. I used an off cut of Oak and routed a hollow in the back of it and then used it to cover the CA.









The wiring isn't the tidiest but I will sort out a better fuse fitting and tidy it up. I am still using up odds and ends of preterminated wires.









The other side of the dash. Note the 'tractor reversing' reversing switch!

















And from the 'Captain's chair'.









Prior to connecting the main pack +ve cable to the isolator switch I figured it would be useful to break the pack continuity and fit a second isolator switch mid pack. That means I can isolate at two points and ensure that there is no continuity when I make and break the high current connections.
The isolator is at the side of the hood though as it is a servicing isolator I can locate it under the hood.









I did a quick test and the CA does indeed read the volts, amps and generates a kW reading when I power the motor.

To complete the CA connections I cut the magnetic speed sensor off and crimped on two spade terminals. That allowed me to connect it to the existing sensor I had already fitted from a bicycle computer. Spinning the front wheel showed the CA reading km/h. It all seems to work as it should.

The next job is to programme the CA to register the wheel size read miles.



Having done all this work in my hallway lit only by a 7W compact fluorescent light and a table lamp I finally got around to suspending a 5' fluorescent tube fitting from the ceiling. The hall is much brighter and I can now see what I am doing!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Having done all this work in my hallway lit only by a 7W compact fluorescent light and a table lamp I finally got around to suspending a 5' fluorescent tube fitting from the ceiling. The hall is much brighter and I can now see what I am doing!


He's only just realised he's built a tractor now he can see it! 

Seriously, it's looking good!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I broke the hood this evening.

I marked out and cut the rear of the hood to shape prior to gluing the two halves together.
All was going well when I cramped it up with glue and then one of the original joints failed.

The failure was in the glue. Both parts had a thin smear of fractured glue. Never had that happen before, usually the wood fails before the glue and one half will have splinters glued to it from the other half.
This is a glue I haven't used before, Titebond 111, and it doesn't seem to behave as it should according to the catalogue write up and reviews. I am wondering if it is a bad batch or out of date. Seems a little runny and this is the third or forth failure so far. The others have been the glued off cuts breaking when I tested them.

I have cleaned, planed and reglued the break. I think I will have to reinforce the joints with battens on the inside, using my usual PVA glue, and then cross brace the hood to help it stay rigid and together.

Oh well, we live and learn


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I picked up a fuse holder with a 30A fuse today. I will be able to fit individual line fuses to each of the low current circuits and feed them from the 48V terminal blocks.









I also moved the mid pack isolator and then put string on both the osolators and the key to keep them from escaping.

















The hood repair seems to have worked though I am not yet convinced the angle is as I would like it. However, I have decided to leave it for now and carry on.
I have added some reinforcement battens to the insides of the mitres and then made a jig to join the two halves of the hood. The hood joint is held by most of a roll of masking tape and then laid in the jig. Another batten is laid over the joint and then the whole if clamped with a cambered caul to provide even pressure along the length of the batten and to force the mitre to close in the jig.









Tomorrow I will see if I am cutting it up and starting again!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, I decided I wasn't happy with the shape of the hood after I took it out of the jig. The centre line is fine but the repair on the broken joint the other day just didn't quite hang right. So I sawed it off and started again on that one. It was a bit fiddly but eventually I got the angle where I wanted it and it is now cramped up and gluing. I will have another look at it tonight and then start planing it tomorrow.

In the meantime I programmed the Cycle Analyst.

So easy, even with only one button instead of the two buttons in the instructions. The instructions say to power up while pressing the button to bring up the set up screen. This was fine and easy to do. 

I scrolled through all the basic set up screens to see what was avaialble while reading the manual.
The basic process is to press the button for each screen. When the screen is found pres sand hold the button until 'OK' shows and then the screen can be set up. Press and hold the button to save the setting.

The first screen was the miles/km. Press and hold, toggle between the two and then press and hold. It is simple so long as your hands don't shake and you end up toggling back to km and saving when you wanted to save the miles!

The wheel diameter was a bit more fiddly as I had to determine the circumference of the front tyre in mm.
I jacked up a front wheel and then lowered it onto a tape measure. I then wrapped the tape measure around the tyre and read the numbers at the overlap.
To set the diameter I toggled to the wheel diameter screen, press and hold, then the first of the preset numbers were highlighted. I pressed to toggle through the numbers until the one I wanted showed. Then press and hold the button to save. The next number is highlighted and the process is repeated.

The rest of the settings were left as they were acceptable but I wanted to zero the ammeter reading, which had been hovering around the 0.5A mark.
I toggled the set up screens until I got to 'Advanced' and then press and hold to select.
I toggled through to the Shunt screen and selected. I left the shunt settings alone as I assume they are the correct factory settings.
At the end of the shunt settings was a 'Reset Zero' screen. Press and hold the button and the shunt is reset to read zero.

Scroll to the end of the set up menus and back to the standard running display.

Easy!

I then tape wrapped the sections of the wiring loom that were now loose and refitted the tunnel covers. I will make better ones in due course but they work, as templates, for the time being.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Photos!

The hood is all in one piece and fits snuggly. I took the opportunity to put in a wooden plug to cover the rusty screw hole in the middle of the hood and also put in a wedge shaped piece to repair the rusty split on the front edge.

It now fits properly on the tractor, well as properly as it gets without any proper measurements!
I just have to profile the front and rear edges and then give it a good cleaning and sanding.

I will make some cross braces to go inside to give it some strength but other then that I am happy with it.

I have also removed the ignition key switch and steering lock as it really is a bit redundant. I am not using the starter position on the switch and the lock can be removed with a 1/2" spanner so not much security. I will find or buy a keyswitch to fit in the dash but for now I have a loose rocker switch to power up.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

The hood, grill and dash are beautiful.

The side panels are not so beautiful.

Try a side by side photo with and without them. I think you would want to show off the batteries and demonstrate that it is really an electric vehicle.

If you really want side panels, my suggestion would be something like louvered panels.

Be well,
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> The hood, grill and dash are beautiful.


Thank you.


Jimdear2 said:


> The side panels are not so beautiful.
> 
> Be well,
> Jim



That is so true!

I currently need the side panels to hold the grill panel in place while I fit the hood. I was thinking of replacing them in Oak but I don't have any recycled pieces left that are the right length.

I could do louvered Oak slats with shorter pieces but I was hoping to keep the batteries covered from the weather and cold. I guess that isn't too big an issue if I keep it indoors and only take it out when it is dry.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Following our discussion at the weekend about ludicrous furniture detailing, how about leaded bay windows at the side? 

Semi-seriously, wooden panels with perspex windows in would show off the batteries.

My Mum was telling me earlier of a friend of hers at school whose Dad had a Jag (this would be 1950's) that not only had a walnut dash, but alos panels on the inside with paintings of English hunting scenes....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have just popped down to the workshop to fit the 600A ammeter. Hopefully the neighbours didn't notice the noise of a router cutting a 2" hole in Oak at 10.30pm!


















I hadn't fitted it before as I didn't know if I could sort out a shunt for it but it has now been 'Kimmed'!

Kim is an expert 'molisher' and 'fettler' of stuff on YACF and worked out for me that I could get a 0.06mOhm 21.6W shunt or I could use a 15kOhm and 4.7kOhm resistor to make a divider on the Cycle Analyst's shunt.

Tommorrow I will go out and get some resistors and maybe some presets to make up the divider to get the ammeter working!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Looks awesome Woody!  I even like it with the traditional tractor tires in back. I didn't think I would like them, but it's kind of cool.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd, I would like a slightly taller and wider set of agri tyres but I am limeted by 16" Land Rover rims. Many of the larger agri tyres seems to need a bigger rim, 16.5" or 17". They also tend to cost more then my whole tractor budget.


Today I bought a 15kOhm resistor and a 20turn 5kOhm trim pot to mount on a bit of strip board. The chap in the shop forgot to charge for the strip board and so it came to less then half price, I didn't notice until I got home and it wouldn't have been worth returning to settle up honestly. I might next time I go in but hey ho...

I rigged up the resistors to make a voltage divider and connected the ammeter to the wiper on the trim pot.
Nothing worked, no reading, no output, nothing.
After a lot of checking I decided to just remove it and test again. The ammeter was reading about 200A for 60A on the CA so it isn't faulty.
I decided to bypass the 15kOhm and just have the trim pot. It worked fine.

I am glad I got the 20 turn pot and not the 1 turn as once I found the correct range it was still down to fractional turns of the trim pot to get the calibration right.

So, how did I get the high current flow?
I put the tractor in third gear, parking brake tight on, foot hard on the foot brake and then gently throttled up.
The tractor starts to creep at 100A so I was trying to hold the tractor still on the brakes, keep my foot still and steady on the accelerator pedal and gently tweak the trim pot (which was hidden from view behind the ammeter in the dash) until the readings corresponded.
I had to do it quickly and in a few short bursts so as to not over heat the motor or controller under stall conditions.

But it is done now.



I saw a lovely old 10A ammeter on Ebay that matched my voltmeter.
I should have bought it and used the same method to create a 'x100' ammeter for the trike!
I might see if the seller still has it for sale.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I decided today to start on the mudguards. I had to put the bigger tyres back on the tractor first to make sure the mudguards are made big enough for them.









Opps wrong tractor!









I also fitted a bit more Oak to support the dashboard and the back edge of the white panels. I am tempted to just cover the white with some Oak effect sticky backed plastic  as I have a couple of rolls of it lying around. It is cheating but it also means I can keep the panels as patterns for when I find some more Oak.

For the mudguards I found a stash of shelves from an old Oak book case, some of which were very short and not useful for anything else. The shelves are not Oak but some other cheaper light weight wood with an Oak front edge. They will do.
I have decided to make the mudguards faceted in three parts with a longer top that will also be a mount for the tail lights later on.
I mitred the joints and biscuited them. In the process I found out just how badly I broke my sliding compound mitre saw a few years back when it caught a stone buried inside a log and jammed the saw. The mitres were at the correct angle but all had a slight curve in them that shows as a gape when the mitres are joined. I think the slide rails on the saw are bent a little with a slight curve to the right so the saw head moves in a slight arc. Oh well, I can sell it and then get another one, £500 or there abouts.

Anyway, the first mudguard is glued and I have reinforced the insides of the joints with a mahogany strip. The outside of the joint will be routed out and a strip laid in to cover the gappy joint.









I am less fussed about the quality here as I am still tempted to remake it all out of solid Oak one day but these boards will do for now.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It is nearly midnight here and what do I do?
Of course, I go back into my workshop and test fit the first mudguard!

























The front edge needs to be shortened to line up with the bottom edge of the chassis. I can then add foot boards over the foot pegs so that there is something for those with smaller feet to rest on!

I also decided to glue and cramp up the second one so that it will be ready in the morning. I can then plane the mahogany reinforcement pieces and glue those in while I tidy up the first mudguard.

















I need to tidy up my bench I think!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

If I was 50 years younger and lived at the beach like I used to - I would drive that "woody" tractor, surfboard on a top rack, to the beach - in fact I would have a canvas sun-top with fringe all about it just to sit under.... 


It is just great!!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It is a little bonkers really!

I could have beaten a pair of mudguards from some 1/8" aluminium sheet I have but I want to keep that for a job where it is the best (only) option.

I will need to clean the surface off the shelf panels as they look too much like 'Aunt Edith's sideboard'. I might even have to paint them if the wood looks too poor quality.
They were originally from the 1930's Art Deco book shelving units that used to be in Bolton Library (Lancashire UK). My ex-wife bought a large section of the shelving units to use and when she moved out I was left with a pile of shelf boards.
I wonder if she will miss them?


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

That fender shape looks strangely familiar. 

I used to get a lot of ribbing about the strange fender shape I used on my pullers. First tractor was a matter of expedience. I didn't have access to a set of rollers but could bend a sheet of aluminium with a couple of pieces of angle iron, some clamps and a rubber hammer. After that it was just stubbornness. 

A hint from experience, if your going to be in sticky mud you will want a bit more clearance. Three or four inches

Looking good.
Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> That fender shape looks strangely familiar.
> 
> ...


Both my trailer fenders are also that shape for the same reason as yours!


















I am banking on the big tires being used on hard standing with about 2" clearance. The agri tyres are about 3" smaller in diameter so I hope I will have my extra clearance that way. Of course, if I get bigger tyres....


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Both my trailer fenders are also that shape for the same reason as yours!


Goes to show you . . . great minds think alike



Woodsmith said:


> I am banking on the big tires being used on hard standing with about 2" clearance. The agri tyres are about 3" smaller in diameter so I hope I will have my extra clearance that way. Of course, if I get bigger tyres....


Bigger tires would just be a (good) excuse to make some more "Woody Stuff"

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Bigger tyres may also mean a bigger transaxle!

I do keep checking Ebay for them....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The mudguards are finally fitted.

That was a job and a half getting them right and fitted without moving the tractor too much.
I did fit both big tyres and then drive into the door way so that the rear wheels were up on the door step. That gave me the space underneath to get two angle iron outriggers welded on to support the front edge of the mudguards. The out riggers will also support foot boards as well, later.

With the tractor back inside I backed the mudguards with some of the phenolic sheet but I couldn't mount them on that. The front edge was bolted to the outriggers with three SS bolts into a threaded backing plate. That allowed a solid fixing without relying on the low strength timber.
Trying to work in that narrow gap against the wall was back breaking as there was no easy access. I could have moved the tractor but I was obstructing the hallway enough as it was and it is blowing a warm gale outside.
The top of the guards were screwed to an Oak batten that was then bolted to the seat back support. It is not strong enough to stand on but it is otherwise very functional. Some Airforce 'No Step' stickers should suffice.

I decided to paint the guards satin black, like the rest of the back end of the tractor as the wood was too poor quality. I am still tempted to remake then at some point with something nicer as they would do as a pattern.


























The clearance to the tyre is about 1 1/2" on the big tyres. That will be a good bit more with the agri tyres.

Very tired now, it has been a physically demanding process.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Beeeeee-U-ti-ful

Jim


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Way cool, but your work and assembly areas leave something to be desired, and the Cyclonic weather isn't helping. Painted the Substandard wood you say??????? Hmmmm, slipping a bit there. You must have that gotta get it done syndrome.

You need to pick a unifying color, one that will blend all your wood elements with the metal bits. Ask Arch for help here.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> T
> 
> I decided to paint the guards satin black, like the rest of the back end of the tractor as the wood was too poor quality. I am still tempted to remake then at some point with something nicer as they would do as a pattern.


Woody,

Well there is always veneer, Formica or "shudder" contact paper.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am on the look out for some better Oak boards but I will wait for them. The mudguards, as they stand, function and will be good templates.
It is the same with the boards for the 'tunnel' and the sides of the battery bay. I will get them done in due course as more Oak comes to hand. I do have three rolls of Oak effect Fablon though.

In the meantime I am trying to 'get it done' for testing at the farm to get real data for the farm tractor conversion job.


However, in other news, the tractor let out the magic smoke today.

It was only the fuse though.
I removed the dash to cut a hole for the controller 'power up' switch that I ordered today and when I was refitting it I was tired, low on sugar and trying to get it all back in before I get ready for dinner tonight.
I managed to connect the battery negative to the output side of the fuse and the battery positive to the controller onto the negative side of the shunt.
I am assuming that with both ends of the pack connected across the fuse when I closed the isolator switch that no current flowed anywhere else so the controller and CA will be unaffected.
There was just a little 'Pfffttt' and some smoke from the fuse.

Oh well. That will remind me why I usually go away for a cup of tea and then recheck the wiring before powering up.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Well there is always veneer, Formica or "shudder" *contact paper*.
> 
> Jim


If you mean what we in the UK know as "Sticky Back Plastic", then it's been mentioned.... 

In fact, I think there's a roll knocking about at my workplace that I could borrow....

We were discussing whether the tractor needs a name. I suggested "Watt", because whenever Woody tells anyone he's built an electric tractor in his hallway, they say "what?!?!?!??!"

Closely followed by "why?"


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> You need to pick a unifying color, one that will blend all your wood elements with the metal bits. Ask Arch for help here.


Arch! What colour are your belts and bags?


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Arch! What colour are your belts and bags?


Good question! 

I hope the smoke isn't too ominous....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It should just be a blown fuse.

I have ordered a replacement. At least I know the fuse works, worked....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Oak Effect Fablon!











I am making up the tunnel with the phenolic boards and thought I would try the 'Blue Peter sticky backed plastic'* version!


*UK children's TV series where, among other activities, presenters made models and toys and everything was covered in sticky backed plastic!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A little bit more Fablon 

I made the sides for the tunnel.









I dropped the height of the tunnel by half inch as the sides were 8" tall but the phenolic board was 15" wide. To save waste the sides are now 7 1/2" tall.

I also added a hood latch.









It is actually the trunk latch from the MR2. I am thinking of having a simple pull handle on the side of the hood area that releases the latch and at the same time switches off the isolator under there.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I like it - everything - Woody. Isn't the point here to just have fun and learn about EVs? That sticky back paper is helping you accomplish that by making it more presentable for its first public appearance, with no stress or hassles.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woody Hoody Latchy thingy --- Nice!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Yeah, right now it is just to get it weather resistant and presentable for field trials with clients and then I can carry on making it nice and woody.

Still kicking myself for blowing a fuse though!

As an aside, you'd think that with seven or eight winches and hoists in the house I would have one that would fit the back of the tractor! Nope. Gonna have to buy or make one to fit.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Didn't you install a hitch receiver to the front of the tractor, I've see winches that just hang on the ball and others that were mounted to receiver mounts. I think you should be able to massage something.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

No hitch receiver, Jim. I was hoping to fit a winch at the back where it could be driven from the traction motor when the trans was in neutral. No point having all that motor, controller and reversion contactor set up if I then have a 12V winch running off another battery.

I do have a 3000lbs 12v winch with a ball hitch mount that fits on the back of my car for my own brand of logging.



























I was trying to figure a 30:1 reduction between the motor and the winch drum on a manual winch but the manual ones I have are a higher ratio, ratchet pullers or are chain hoists which wouldn't work anyway.
I had though of going hydraulic but that is added expense as well.

I quite wanted a set up like this, but correspondingly smaller.








The winch, anchor and subframe can all be one unit, given that there is nothing much to bolt onto on the transaxle, that then hooks onto the axle and rear hitch mount. It can then take all the loads without putting too much through the transaxle case and chassis. It would then be removable too.

I guess I still miss my old AEC Matador timber tractor.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

HaHA you could have your own logging show... No easy feat that! Have a cup of tea and revel in the fact you ARE a problem solver......


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> HaHA you could have your own logging show... No easy feat that! Have a cup of tea and revel in the fact you ARE a problem solver......


Thanks Dave.

This was the tree, covered in ivy, and down a steep slope on the side of a gully at the bottom end of this garden.









Dropped it up hill.









Had to give it a high back cut to stop it kicking back and falling back down the gully.









And set the crown down on the patio in front of the shed.









Bullseye!


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

How many cups of tea did this effort require, and where are the obligatory pictures of the wee beastie proudly beside the tree?

First substandard wood........... I dunno, getting sloppy here.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Ever notice how they look bigger laying down? 

Miz


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> How many cups of tea did this effort require, and where are the obligatory pictures of the wee beastie proudly beside the tree?
> 
> First substandard wood........... I dunno, getting sloppy here.


I think there were three cups of tea with that one, it was a few years ago. This was when I was using my car for pulling trees so no posy tractor pics with this one.

The plastic wood is a just to keep progress for the time being. So I can get field trials in. If it wouldn't keep raining over here (well they do call Manchester the rainy city!) then I would risk a day out without cover. It is as much about keeping mud out of the electrical parts as keeping rain off when stopped.


I now have a design for fitting a winch (when I get one that fits) and ground anchor to the back of the tractor that will spread the load over the transaxle case to the chassis. 
I worry about loading the transaxle as it only bolts to the chassis with 4 3/8" bolts on the front of the casing. The bolts could pull out if I lift the front wheels and bounce them too hard. The 'bridge' I am going to build will span over the top of the transaxle joining the chassis to the tow hitch mount at the rear of the axle. It will effectively use the transaxle as a compression member, one side of a triangle, when winching.

I would like it to be strong enough to stand the whole tractor up on the points of the ground anchor, when winching, without anything breaking.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I now have a design for fitting a winch (when I get one that fits) and ground anchor to the back of the tractor that will spread the load over the transaxle case to the chassis.


Arch foresees a summer of auto-jumbles and car-boot sales....



Looking at those tree pics, I'm once again amazed at the things you can do! And I'm not sure who admires you more, me, or my Mum!

(It's me, really, but I reckon she thinks I've struck gold...)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Right, some non plastic photos!

I made a cross piece that I welded in the workshop to one of the tow hitch braces. That sets the position of the back end of the frame. The two notches cut into it are for hanging lifting chain to take the strain from the anchor.









I also cut and drilled the two side pieces while I was in the workshop. I used some 70x50x8mm angle that has been sitting on the workshop stairs for over a year.
As I still haven't got the replacement fuse I had to push the tractor outside to weld up. That left it in a slightly awkward space too close to a pile of bricks so I had to struggle around to get the wheels and mudguards off and to weld underneath without getting under it.

Ignore the overspray of grey primer, it was getting dark and I needed to get it back together again and in doors. (Why do people phone for a chat just as I am trying to weld and get a job done? Even when I say they carry on talking!)

This is the general layout. The angle iron extends the chassis up at an angle over the axle and brakes. The front end is fully welded to the chassis all round and the back end is welded to the cross piece I fitted earlier. It should mean that the transaxle should still be able to drop out the bottom of the chassis if/when I break it again.

























I should be able to fit a winch to the sloping surface of the angle irons at a later date.

The front end of the angle irons extend below the chassis and has a 16mm hole in it.









The spade anchor will pivot on that bolt hole and be pulled up tight under the axle for traveling and then dropped down, restrained by the chains, for winching. The load from the winch and the anchor should put the transaxle case in compression as it tries to lift the front of the chassis. Also any shock loads form towing should also be shared with the chassis instead of just the back of the transaxle case.

I figured that as the anchor is 1000mm long and the winch is about 500mm above the points on the anchor then, with a 500kg tractor I should be able to get a 1000kg line pull when all four wheels leave the ground.

To get the tractor back in the house I had to winch it in up the ramps using the stair newel post as the anchor. I fitted the newel post so I knew it was going to be strong enough.

I will have to go see a car with my neighbour, hence the earlier phone call, in the morning but after that I will get on with making the anchor.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> To get the tractor back in the house I had to winch it in up the ramps using the stair newel post as the anchor. I fitted the newel post so I knew it was going to be strong enough.




Some people have to child-proof, or dog-proof their houses. You have to tractor-proof yours!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Arch said:


> You have to tractor-proof yours!


Doesn't everybody?


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Doesn't everybody?


One must be careful... I started with a 24hp Kubota, and built a garage for it. Since then I bought another 58hp Kubota and a few implements (backhoe, post driver, brush hog, etc). The replacement garage is 60' by 100'. 
I now have more room for tractors


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

grayballs said:


> One must be careful... I started with a 24hp Kubota, and built a garage for it. Since then I bought another 58hp Kubota and a few implements (backhoe, post driver, brush hog, etc). The replacement garage is 60' by 100'.
> I now have more room for tractors


Moral is:
Build the garage 60' x 100' form the start!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I built the anchor today, well, mostly.

I used two lengths of the 70x50mm angle and at the pivot end added a bit of 70x30mm channel to make the 'hinge' a double shear. I wanted to keep the fit really close so that the anchor doesn't rattle or hang too low.

I found a couple of M16 bolts but the threads were badly damaged and also what I thought was a 16mm drill is slightly small and may be an imperial size.
So rather then file out the holes and cleaning the bolt threads I turned a couple of pins on the lathe and fitted split pins. I then heat treated them to make them harder.









This is the length of the anchor side members.









The pivot pin end.

















I cut another bit of angle, same size but thicker, about 11mm thick, for the spade.
















It will need a couple of spade points welding on to help it dig in.

This is how the chains will fit. I will need to determine the best place for the connection at the anchor and then find some spare lifting chain for it.









This evening I welded the anchor, while fitted on the tractor, to ensure alignment and squareness. It will need final welding in the workshop and then cross bracing and the spade points fitting. Then the anchor is done.

Just need a yet another winch now.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Doesn't everybody?



When I was talking to Mum some time back, and related how we'd cleared your hallway to put the tractor in, and then started to dismantle the MR2, I said "So just a normal weekend really" and there was a pause and she said "No love, that's not normal......"

I got over here at 5.30 this evening, and spent the first hour I was here not looking at Woody, due to the fact that he was welding, so I had to hide round the edge of the door....


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Woodsmith said:


> Moral is:
> Build the garage 60' x 100' form the start!


Neighbor Max did just that. only problem was that there is an immutable law that stuff expands to N-1 sq feet of available space.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Neighbor Max did just that. only problem was that there is an immutable law that stuff expands to N-1 sq feet of available space.


Yes but it takes longer - you just have to be grateful for the period before it catches up with you!

The flip side is tidying it takes lots longer!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, it has taken a few days of taking stuff apart and playing with the bits but I have a plan for a timber winch, driven by the traction motor. 

In the process Arch ended up stripping and cleaning a 1/4 ton chain hoist.

I stripped an old worm drive chain hoist which gave a length of 3/8" lift chain with a hook at each end. That will be the restraining chain for the anchor.
It also gave a worm and wheel.

I then looked in my box of broken bits from the old tractor transaxle and found that one of the gear wheels fitted the keyed shaft on the worm. The input shaft, with dog clutch also fitted the small 12t sprocket.








The large gearwheel will need to be pressed further onto the worm shaft later.

That sorts out the insides of the winch drive, it is nice when everything is standard sizes and fit together properly.
The motor drives the transaxle where there is a spare 17t sprocket.
Chain drive to the 12t sprocket.
Dog clutch to the small 18t gear.
Drives the large 56t gear.
Drives the single start worm.
Drives the 35t worm wheel.
That will have a cable drum fitted to it, hopefully with some sort of freewheel.
The dog clutch will allow the transaxle to drive the tractor without the winch being driven, though the 12t sprocket will freewheel quite fast. If I can find a larger sprocket I can change it later.

It gives a 76.88:1 ratio from the transaxle to the winch drum giving about 19rpm for 1500rpm from the motor.

I will need to build a case or chassis for the winch next and then fit it to the tractor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

This is going to be a true Woody-built winch (grabs popcorn)


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Neighbor Max did just that. only problem was that there is an immutable law that stuff expands to N-1 sq feet of available space.


I already bought the property, next door, and have applied for a variance and building permits. 120' x 220'. 'Bringing the machine shop home too.(Variance, because we have some stupid law that says one must have a house on the property, in order to have a garage)

Sorry about the thread hijack, Woody.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

grayballs said:


> I already bought the property, next door, and have applied for a variance and building permits. 120' x 220'. 'Bringing the machine shop home too.(Variance, because we have some stupid law that says one must have a house on the property, in order to have a garage)
> 
> Sorry about the thread hijack, Woody.


That's OK.

If I could I would be doing likewise.

Arch and I have plans, for after my parents have passed on, to sell the house I am in now and then to get a small holding. It would justify the tractor and give us some proper out door life and some food from the land.

I have cut up the MR2 abandoned project and it is ready to be taken to the scrap metal yard in the morning to be weighed in. 

































That will clear some of my space. Delivering my pile of firewood to a friend next week will clear most of the rest leaving just some building materials and a concrete 3 car parking lot.
That can then be dug up and turned to planting.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Anchor welded and fitted.

















I used some 2" flat bar to cross brace it and the corners that stuck out from the end will do as points. They may need a bit of reinforcement from underneath maybe.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I neeeeeed a stronger transaxle!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I neeeeeed a stronger transaxle!...


You broke it?!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> You broke it?!


It wasn't a big log, the sort of thing my car would pull out....

























I got it that far and got a clicking in the axle. I think it was the slip/grip/slip/grip in the undergrowth putting shocks through the system.

The bits I build don't break, the bits I get from Ebay....

I am going back to the original plan and start with a narrowed Land Rover Salisbury axle, the Lada transfer box and a 3:1 reduction chain drive from the motor. Build strong and build once!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Ouch! 



Woodsmith said:


> ...Build strong and build once!


There you go. That tractor kind of deserves a Woody-built drive system, to match the ruggedness of its construction.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm just browsing for an axle now.

Tomorrow I will pull that log out with my car and get a photo of it.


The CA recorded 1212W/mile for that little stunt!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody ...Woody...Woody,

I knew when you decided to use that BIG motor that something would eventually break. I just hoped that it would go a bit longer then it did.

I feel real bad in advising you to go with that transaxle, but I do think that with a reasonable size motor it would do fine doing garden tractor type stuff

That motor would do a 3000 pound compact tractor or a 5000 pound small farm tractor justice. Unfortunately that is a garden tractor transaxle, meant to be used with 12 or as much as a 16 horse ICE and maybe 10 or 15 foot pound of torque. It should hold a 100% overload, but not what you were doing.

The route you are now following will be much closer to a compact and should do the job.

Can't wait for the new project to start. When you are building you'er more fun then a good action adventure movie, like Tod says, get out the popcorn.

A thought on the differential, maybe look for an IRS stand alone differential. Get rid of the CV joints and make solid axles. Just a thought.

On another note the Big 13 is painted and going back together. We reset the motor and the home brew controller passed a milestone test today, we pushed 265 amps through a single IGBT at full pack voltage into the resistor bank and field coils. Pack voltage dropped about 5 or 6 volts . . . NO SMOKE. Do that with all six IGBTs and the thing should be EVIL.

I'll post pictures and stuff on Wednesday.

Be well and be sure I have lots of popcorn

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody ...Woody...Woody,
> 
> I knew when you decided to use that BIG motor that something would eventually break. I just hoped that it would go a bit longer then it did.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about it.

Thing is, I don't have a garden to garden tractor stuff with.
It might have survived if I had used the original 15" tall tyres that came with it and I had figured that the truck tyres would slip enough for traction to be the weak point.

I am going to start sourcing parts fro a bullet proof transmission but in the mean time I will remove and open up the transaxle and see what's what.
If there are teeth missing I can weld them up, grind them to shape and then 'heat treat' them with the arc welder. I've done that before on machinery.

Using an IRS diff is a good idea, I would just need to find one with a low ratio. The Land Rover Salisbury axle would be a 4.7:1 and easy to narrow as it has round tubes to cut and weld. I used to widen them that way too. It will also mean having big drum brakes and fully floating hubs that can take weight without worry.


Well done on the 265 amps!

I just checked my CA and the current peaked at 364A! Not sure about the sag but, say 45V and that would be around 16.4kW or 22hp


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Post-mortem photos.

It is nice not having to work outside as I don't have to worry about theft or rain damage.

I rolled the tractor forward a bit and then dragged it away from the wall enough to remove the wheels. I put the tractor on stands and stripped off the mudguards and wheels and then started to remove the transaxle.
It wasn't too difficult.
Remove anchor
Remove brake calipers
Remove chain tensioner spring
Remove hubs and disc assembly
Disconnect parking brake cable
Unbolt the tow hitch
Remove the drive chain
disconnect gear shift linkage
Place jacks under the trans
Undo four bolts on the front of the trans
Lower jacks
Trans falls out onto floor!









I took the trans down to the workshop, drained the oil and then placed it in the vice to open up working to the workshop manual.
Initially I could see a little shrapnal in the casing but turning the gears by hand and selecting each gear in turn showed nothing amiss. So I removed the axles and diff unit.









The diff didn't look healthy when I opened it up.


































I think once all the teeth broke off they just jammed the diff so I had drive and a little click every so often and all gears working.

I think it is beyond welding in some dentures.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Weld the diff solid. 

The tractor wont maneuver as well but you will have something to work with till you get the new setup done. As long as you are in dirt it isn't too bad as long as you have sufficient weight on the front.

I know that welding is a common fix for the little pulling tractors. The differential goes then the axles are next after you fix the diff. The transmissions very seldom break most of the hotrod fixes are diffs and axles.

I can probably find a set of pinions and send them to you. another thing, a friend says the four speed versions of that transaxle are a bit stronger.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Weld the diff solid.
> 
> Jim


Great minds think alike!

Just back up from the workshop having done just that.









I welded only the gears to each other so that they can still be removed from the housing and from the half shafts if I ever find a replacement set.

This is my first welded diff!

I'll get some more gasket paper and some gasket sealer tomorrow and then reassemble it.

I will also have to finish building a wall first though, just have five coping stones to fit, each about 300-400lbs in weight, to mortar in.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

I'll be seeing my friend tomorrow, he might have something, if not I'll look and see what is available over here.

Weld job looks good.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> I'll be seeing my friend tomorrow, he might have something, if not I'll look and see what is available over here.
> 
> ...


Many thanks to you Jim.

The trans is a 4 speed Unidrive (3F1R) with 1" axle and four 1 piece diff gears.

Not to worry too much about it though, I still need something stronger and have the gears  in motion for that.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I don't know the appropriate brands for over the pond, but you might as well go ford 9" diff, which was midsize American vehicles. an 8.8 would probably work as well, used in ford mid sized trucks. all kinds of parts, ratios up to 6.25:1 , many mods available, and can be built bullet proof.

OTOH, leave them big trees to the stump pullers.

BTW time for acuppa.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> I don't know the appropriate brands for over the pond, but you might as well go ford 9" diff, which was midsize American vehicles. an 8.8 would probably work as well, used in ford mid sized trucks. all kinds of parts, ratios up to 6.25:1 , many mods available, and can be built bullet proof.
> 
> OTOH, leave them big trees to the stump pullers.
> 
> BTW time for acuppa.


I've had a few cuppa's since this started!

The Ford 9" is a good axle but costly here and not so easy to find.

The Land Rover Salisbury (pretty much the same as a Dana 60 in the USA) is very strong in standard form and uses tubular axle tubes pressed into the forged diff centre. That makes it easy for me to cut and narrow in house. It is also cheap as the Land Rover chaps tend to strengthen the easier to work on Rover axle which has many after market parts.
The standard Salisbury, at 4.7:1, would be fine for me and should be just as bullet proof for a half ton tractor. I can couple it to the Lada transfer box, giving 1.2:1 and 2.135:1 ratios. The motor can then chain drive that with a 2.05:1 ratio (17/35).

I will run the transfer box facing backwards as the drive through the centre diff will be through the locking dog clutch and not through the diff spider gears. It also gives the option for a driven front axle one day. 

The chain drive element will also give me a live PTO for driving the winch.

That is where I went wrong, rushing to pull out that log for the weekend. I should have waited and built the winch, and then winched it out.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I bought gasket paper and sealer and reassembled the transaxle this morning. I left it to cure for the rest of the day and spent the time stone wall building.
Finished off the 6m length of wall that we started repairing last week.









This evening I brought the transaxle back up to the tractor and reassembled it. The whole job is so much easier then changing a clutch on a car!

The hardest part was getting the hubs back on the drive shafts, they were tight and I wanted them to stay that way. The longest part was refilling with oil, slow job with thick gear oil.

The tractor now has the Agri tyres on and is back on all fours.

I will have to see if the welded diff survives the first tight turn out of the front door.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I must apologise to my little tractor. It is much much more powerful and strong then I though.









I went over a little while ago to pull out that log that broke the tractor's axle.
The car wouldn't touch it pulling, did even worse then the tractor did.

So I used my car's winch. Given the winch is a 1500kg line pull it first pulled the car backwards against the parking brake. I put the car into gear to lock the front wheels as well and the winch stalled.
I used a pulley block to get a 2:1 line pull and the log slowly relented and started to move.
Then the car moved backwards.
I took the car further up the tarmac to get a firmer grip and to reduce the cable on the winch drum.
The log eventually came out.

There are two, maybe three spars that are ploughing deeply into the dirt and a chisel shaped leading edge that is digging in. I gave up, having only moved it as far as the tractor did, to avoid ploughing up the tarmac.









I will have to cut it up into two or three lumps to get it out as I no longer have my logging arch to lift it.

It is heavy too, with a bar under the side I could barely rock it to get the chain under it.


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I will have to cut it up into two or three lumps to get it out as I no longer have my logging *arch* to lift it.



I didn't know Arch was a logger. And she seemed a bit on the dainty side for that kind of challenge. And where did she go?



Eric


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Woodsmith said:


> The Land Rover Salisbury (pretty much the same as a Dana 60 in the USA) is very strong in standard form and uses tubular axle tubes pressed into the forged diff centre. That makes it easy for me to cut and narrow in house. It is also cheap as the Land Rover chaps tend to strengthen the easier to work on Rover axle which has many after market parts.


See? that was my problem. You never see anybody putting a rover diff on a dragster here on this side of the pond. The shortening the tubes is easy, getting the axles narrowed will be the challenge. I have faith in your skills.

Time for another cuppa. TTFN.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

esoneson said:


> I didn't know Arch was a logger. And she seemed a bit on the dainty side for that kind of challenge. And where did she go?
> 
> 
> 
> Eric







piotrsko said:


> See? that was my problem. You never see anybody putting a rover diff on a dragster here on this side of the pond. The shortening the tubes is easy, getting the axles narrowed will be the challenge. I have faith in your skills.
> 
> Time for another cuppa. TTFN.


As you say, shortening the tubes is easy. 

The half shafts could be easy. My plans: I could just cut them off where they stick out from the hub and weld the drive flanges on, with good prep and alignment, or I could grind a 10 spline end use standard LR 10 spline drive flanges, or I could go to Ashcroft Transmissions and buy some custom, extra strong shafts.

My preference is to grind my own as I can do that at no real cost and repeat if they break.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't know how the LR axles are made, but the smaller race chassis shops on this side of the pond that narrow Ford 9" rear ends usually do the housings in house, and send the axles out to a machine shop to be narrowed. Beside being incredibly strong, with great aftermarket support, the other key to the 9" is the axles are uniform diameter, meaning the machine can simply chop the required amount off and cut new splines (on the inside end). On some rear ends, like the Chevy 12-bolt, the axles are tapered on the inside end meaning they can't just be cut and re-splined. Turning them down probably gets into non-hardened steel, meaning they would have to be splined and re-hardened. Those types it usually cheaper to just buy aftermarket axles. The Ford rear end makes it a cheaper proposition, until the power levels climb. IIRC, it was somewhere between $100-200 to have the axles cut and re-splined. The chassis shop was going to charge me $250 to do the housing, so I figured I'd have around $500 in the whole thing.

Since you're not going fat enough for vibration to become a serious issue, you probably could do the housing just as you said, with or with a fixture, and narrow and re-spline the axles yourself. If they're straight, maybe you can cut and re-spline the inside like they're done on Ford rear ends? You might also check around to see if there's a shop that can re-spline them for you.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am trying to remember if the Salisbury axle shafts are parallel or not. I think they are so cutting splines would be simple.

I don't think I have a power issue if I was to just cut and spline or weld them. I peak at about 25hp with this set up I think. Axle speed shouldn't be an issue either unless I want to do competition pulling.

I will play it by ear when I get the axle.

The last time I worked on Salisbury axles I was widening them for my 6x6 truck.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Woody. Looking at the spring arrangement on your 6wheel l/rover the only way that I could see the single rear spring working is if it is pivoted at the u-bolts. Do you have close up photos or a description? Intriguing!


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Woody

I've been picking up all sorts of useful tips from your thread as you seem to have a lot of experience in repurposing bits of heavy metal.

I've got a question though. I've been looking at options for cutting splines as well. How do you go about it? The easiest way I can think of doing it with the modest equipment I have is to index the shaft in the lathe and cut the splines with something like a dremel mounted on the cross slide. I don't much like the idea of getting abrasive dust all over my lathe though.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

poprock1 said:


> Hi Woody. Looking at the spring arrangement on your 6wheel l/rover the only way that I could see the single rear spring working is if it is pivoted at the u-bolts. Do you have close up photos or a description? Intriguing!


The centre of the spring is U bolted to a hub that was turned to fit L-R wheel bearings and then fitted to stub axles bolted to some metal work that was welded to the chassis and bridged across with a cranked cross member.
That allowed the springs to pivot freely.
The ends of the springs were on swing shackles that were suspended from brackets welded on the axles. Each axle had a solidly welded A frame that pivoted on a centre pivot on a chassis cross member that allowed roll and pitch movement. Yaw was prevented by greased bearers that prevented the springs, and thus the axles from yawing sideways. It is very much a miniature of a heavy truck drive bogie.

The front axle was also centre pivoted.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

MalcolmB said:


> Hi Woody
> 
> I've been picking up all sorts of useful tips from your thread as you seem to have a lot of experience in repurposing bits of heavy metal.
> 
> I've got a question though. I've been looking at options for cutting splines as well. How do you go about it? The easiest way I can think of doing it with the modest equipment I have is to index the shaft in the lathe and cut the splines with something like a dremel mounted on the cross slide. I don't much like the idea of getting abrasive dust all over my lathe though.


I cut my splines for the ClubCar motor coupler as you described, by marking out on the lathe first. That gave me scribe lines for each spline.
I then used a cutting disk on a 4 1/2" angle grinder to carefully cut the splines while the shaft was held in the vice. Each spline was cut so that the scribe line was only just visible on the edge of the cut and then the depth of each cut was refined.

I was able to de-burr the cut spline edges with a diamond sharpening plate and square, flatten and refine the spline driving edges with the same until the splines fitted well.

This is one reason for considering resplining the outer end of the Salisbury half shafts. The inner end would have to be 24 involute splines, much harder to reproduce accurately by hand in something so hard. The outer end would also be a 24 spline but I can change the drive flanges to 10 spline which would be much easier to reproduce.

Salisbury spline on drive flange.









Rover 10 spline.








Much easier to reproduce.


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## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for the description! Yes, I reckon I could just about manage the Rover 10 spline that way, but higher spline counts and involute profiles are a bit more tricky. I've tried looking for suitable milling cutters, without any luck. I guess you would have to grind your own.

Cheers
Malcolm


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I did think about milling splines, fine if you have a mill and the material is soft enough. Grinding is easier for harder stuff but a very steady hand and strong lighting is needed to keep to a line.
The other thing to make it easier is to have a turned section on each end of the splines that correspond to the root diameter of the spline. That really helps maintain the depth of cut.
This is my first spline cutting.

























I know Simon Rafferty from X-Eng machines his own, non standard, splined drives for some of his creations.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I started to sort out the Lada Transfer box today, to get a sprocket on it for a bit of extra reduction.

In the previous incarnation of the tractor I had a 42t sprocket that I fitted to a triple pulley to adapt it to the old Ransomes transaxle.


















I dug that out and machined the pulley to make it shorter to fit on the transfer box.
It is bolted on with captive bolts that I had to remove the drive flange to fit.









It offsets the sprocket ahead of the selector lever and just misses the difflock lever, enough to fit a chain.

















Now all I need is to get hold of the Salisbury axle and I can start setting up a new back end for the tractor.


Except....


Except on the way back upstairs from dinner with my folks I think I have torn a muscle in my left calf.
I am sitting here in pain, having just got rid of 82 spam blog posts and a couple of spammers.

Not sure the pain meds are strong enough.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi Woody
Did not have any luck with a vacuum pump but spotted this wrecked Landrover, took some pics of the rear axle.
Is this what you are looking for?
I dont know how much they want for it but they are usually reasonable.
John


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Poor Woody!

So everyone, I'm running a sweepstake on how long it takes him to build an electric wheelchair, and how oversized the motor is going to be... 

Get well soon.


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## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Woody, it is inspiring to see you getting a lot out of these old parts and give them new life. Hope your leg mends quickly.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Hi Woody
> Did not have any luck with a vacuum pump but spotted this wrecked Landrover, took some pics of the rear axle.
> Is this what you are looking for?
> I dont know how much they want for it but they are usually reasonable.
> John


Yep, that's the one!

I can get one, taken off and complete, for £50 from a Land Rover breaker over in Wakefield so if it is comparable...


Cheers for the sympathy, leg is agony.
I think I could use the 12" motor for a wheel chair maybe? The weight would keep it stable.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers for the sympathy, leg is agony.
> I think I could use the 12" motor for a wheel chair maybe? The weight would keep it stable.


Just make sure you use a robust enough diff eh?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

My first ever cast!

I have a suspected ruptured achillies tendon. I have to go back to hospital in a few hours for it to be examined by a specialist to be sure. It sounds and feels like a rupture but the A&E doc couldn't find a definite break to be sure.

I am in a short cast for now so I can come home and rest a bit but if it is a rupture I could be in full leg cast for a couple of months maybe.

I guess moving logs about didn't only break my tractor.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Uh-oh - new thread coming for Woody's Wheelchair!  12" motor, steam punk theme, maybe with those "agri" tires, and welded diff, off the tractor - so he can finish logging! 

Sorry to hear about your leg Woody, hope it heals fast.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd.

Just back from hospital again. It is confirmed that I have ruptured my achillies tendon. The break is high up where it joins the muscle bulk so was difficult to confirm easily.

No surgery for now, I am in a plaster cast until next week and then I will be scanned to see if the break is healing or not. That will decide on the surgery. Either way I have eight weeks of being in plaster meaning no driving, cycling, walking or workshop meddling.

However, I did opt for a black cast as it would show the workshop dirt less.

















I wonder if I am just working in sympathy with the tractor?
Broke diff, ruptured tendon.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Ouch!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

You sure do seem to have more then your share of rotten luck. Both yourself and your projects. I just don't understand it, you do seem to put forward extra effort . . .

At least there is one ray of light, you can use the tractor as a mobility cart just like I use the yellow cub. Of course it won't turn as tight with the welded diff., but a bit of back and fill should handle that. At least the cast will make applying both brake pedals easy.

Stay active and in touch,

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You're not wrong there, Jim. 









(photo taken at doctor's waiting room)

I had a doctor's appointment booked for this afternoon and so I phoned for a cab with plenty of time. The cab company said that due to an incident on the motorway they couldn't promise a cab within a hour.
It is only about half a mile so I set off to walk, with Mum. Less then 10 yards from my house my crutches slipped on the wet ground and I went crashing down on my toes onto rough tarmac chippings.
That hurt, still does.

Thankfully a man working next door was kind enough to give me a lift, dripping blood and all, to the surgery while Mum walked, only one seat in the van.

My nice doctor did the honorable thing and, not knowing anything about what had happened over the last 24 hours, burst out laughing as I struggled into her consulting room.

I managed to call my friendly neighbour and he commandeered one of his tenants, who has a car, to come pick us up.

I am now drinking tea and looking forwards to the effects of the painkillers.


I can't see much of my toes and cleaning the cuts was more difficult then I thought. I can't turn my ankle for a better look and it hurts my knee joint trying to cross my leg over my lap to see.


My toe nail has shunted back into the cuticle a bit and there are some bleeding holes around the end of my toe from road rash. Whole toe is now a throbbing purple.

I don't think I will be working on anything for a while, nor shifting stuff to get the tractor out for a play.

A good time to catch up on some reading and DVD films.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woody,

Cancel the stay active comment of my last post. Best you have your mum lock you into a closet and feed you through a hatch.

Just stay healthy,
Jim


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Cancel the stay active comment of my last post. Best you have your mum lock you into a closet and feed you through a hatch.
> 
> ...


Agreed 100%!!! Sit down somewhere!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> Cancel the stay active comment of my last post. Best you have your mum lock you into a closet and feed you through a hatch.
> 
> ...


I will be constructing some sort of cage, I think...



Woody, what _AM_ I going to do with you!?

Seriously, look after yourself!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

"If I didn't have bad luck - I'd have no luck at all!!"

 

when I first glanced at the white to black cast I thought you painted it LOL...

At least paint it in wood grain - (woody leg )

I have had the same luck with my dog - first she is bitten by another dog, 1" round and about that deep - puncture wounds heal from the bottom up - then she comes up lame not an ACL but some twist in her "good" leg - did the same to the other one last year. I used swim therapy - now have to wait till she is healed ---- argggggggggg ya just can't win sometimes! Head up Wood it all comes at once --- then it can only get better!!


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Yep, that's the one!
> 
> I can get one, taken off and complete, for £50 from a Land Rover breaker over in Wakefield so if it is comparable...
> 
> ...


When this rain clears I will go an ask them, we would probably have to take it off ourselves tho.

Sorry to hear about your leg, I hope it mends soon.
I am away for a week on Tuesday but will get back in touch when I get back.
Just started posting pics of my Volvo.

Take care.... ooops too late.
John


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> You're not wrong there, Jim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why does the Keystone Cops and Laural and Hardy keep coming into my thoughts....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am definitely taking it easy now. Leg up, cake and tea on demand and the TV remote in hand.

Really hoping that next week's scan shows healing taking place. Really don't want an operation and a full equine leg cast. Lower leg only is bad enough.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Laurel & Hardy? More like Frank Spencer & his long-suffering wife Betty! At approximately 55 my acuity started to decline and I have since developed a first-name relationship with the staff at casualty. Since retirement the accidents have almost ceased due to not being under pressure from deadlines. Hobbies are the way to unwind. It doesn't matter if your project is never finished or never moves under it's own power, it keeps us out of the kitchen.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

poprock1 said:


> Laurel & Hardy? More like Frank Spencer & his long-suffering wife Betty! At approximately 55 my acuity started to decline and I have since developed a first-name relationship with the staff at casualty. Since retirement the accidents have almost ceased due to not being under pressure from deadlines. Hobbies are the way to unwind. It doesn't matter if your project is never finished or never moves under it's own power, it keeps us out of the kitchen.



Here Here.....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I am definitely taking it easy now. Leg up, cake and tea on demand and the TV remote in hand....(


Now he's going to have to build a Woody treadmill to work off all that "taking it easy"!  Mend fast and well, old friend.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Here Here.....


Geez, no one would be taking the mick if I broke a BMW on the race track and then got injured playing football!



I have been designing a detachable plastic toe cap for my plaster cast to protect my toes so I can get about a bit more. Could do with a steel toe cap so I can get back in the workshop but would need to be in the workshop to make the steel toecap!

I still need to figure out how to field test the tractor at some point. Can't deliver it or drive it myself and Arch hasn't towed my trailer yet.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I have been designing a detachable plastic toe cap for my plaster cast to protect my toes so I can get about a bit more. Could do with a steel toe cap so I can get back in the workshop but would need to be in the workshop to make the steel toecap!



I can look out for a suitably sized tin can for you at work!

Of course, it doesn't really want to be cylindrical to fit your foot, more like an oblong or oval cross section. The sort of shape tinned meat comes in.

Oh, the irony, if Woody had a toecap from a Spam tin!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Arch said:


> I can look out for a suitably sized tin can for you at work!
> 
> Of course, it doesn't really want to be cylindrical to fit your foot, more like an oblong or oval cross section. The sort of shape tinned meat comes in.
> 
> Oh, the irony, if Woody had a toecap from a Spam tin!


LOL!
You crack me up honey!

One plastic toecap fitted and functional.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> LOL!
> You crack me up honey!



Glad to be of service!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

At least it is streamlined ...

But it looks as if it is missing the propeller! 

Paint toes on it for the next shot - and keep that sense of humor


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Brief update.
My achillies tendon isn't ruptured, but it is detached, in a 'ripped off it' kinda way, from my calf muscle. No wonder it hurts so much.
It does mean that I won't need surgery and the cast is off and replaced by a monster sized orthopedic boot for the next two months!
Also my toe is broken!

So, while I am sitting here watching YouTube videos and shooting spammers I started to ponder...

I am going to get a Salisbury (Dana 60) axle to rebuild the back end of the tractor.
Is there any mileage in fitting in an autobox somewhere to increase torque, in the converter, and soften the shock from the motor when I stamp on the volume pedal? Probably not I think.

Anyway, just pondering, but genuinely interested, for now....


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Re Dana diff: Back in the 70's 80's Aussie dragsters used the diff from 3 ton Dyna's. Appr 6:1 ratio in earlier models. Dyna 100 and 150 used a smaller car type diff with 4.1:1 ratio.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

For cost and availability I am pretty much stuck with 4.7:1 from a Series 3 Land Rover. Other ratios and axles from other vehicles seem to sky rocket in price in comparison.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Having just returned from our holiday yesterday I (we) picked up my Salisbury axle today.

There was one on Ebay for £60, with wheels, and I figured as it was fairly close by the extra £10 was worth it to save a longer drive with a trailer. The seller also had another Salisbury that has had its shafts and hubs removed so I had that for £15. It gives me a spare in case I get it wrong narrowing it.

Also I have a plan if I end up with a spare intact axle!

I can't do anything with either of them yet though. Arch had to drive my car and trailer to pick them up and they will stay in the trailer until I am able to move them about myself. At 120kg for the axle I am not healthy enough to be able to move it just yet.
I shall attempt to drain the oil at some point to see if the oil is clean or not.

Can't wait until I am able to get on with some more work!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Good to hear from you


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Good to see the tractor thread surface too!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers guys.

I had a 'Duh!' moment yesterday, while I was recovering from the exertion of tidying up the axles a little. (It is immensely frustrating and exhausting to have a ruptured tendon and broken toe on my left foot and now gout in my right foot! Gout is more painful to stand on then breaking a toe, but it is on the mend.)

One of the axles still had wheels attached and I wanted to just remove them so that I could measure the length of the axle from hub face to hub face.

I managed to loosen the wheel nuts and Arch and I pulled the wheels off and dropped the axle on the trailer floor.

The 'Duh!' moment was when I realised that I should have drained the axle oil while the axle was still on the wheels, and not sitting on the drain plug!
Oh well, I have scissor jacks and axle stands!


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Sounds all good to me ...well done.

If you need me to come up and lend you some muscle you only have to ask.
I am free almost always.

My little project is coming on nicely, drilled my controller PCB last night, I just need to transfer the design onto it for etching.

There was some good ex-telecom batts on ebay yesterday but they went before I could investigate properly. They looked good tho.

Take care, regards to Arch.
John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers John,

The axle is inside my covered box trailer at the moment and so I can attempt little bits of work with it every now and again. I might put the trailer legs down later and try to level it before I jack up the axle inside. That will reduce the chance of it falling off the jacks.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers John,
> 
> The axle is inside my covered box trailer at the moment and so I can attempt little bits of work with it every now and again. I might put the trailer legs down later and try to level it before I jack up the axle inside. That will reduce the chance of it falling off the jacks.


I will be happy to help if you ned me....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I managed to set the axle oil draining.

I firstly leveled the trailer and put the legs down for stability. Then I jacked the axle up, with a jack under the pinion to stop it rotating, and set it on axle stands. I did remember to loosen the drain plug first to make it easy, and then left it to drain into a old container.


























This is the other axle I picked up, without the hubs.









The stub axles are deeply rusted and scrap so if I use it I will replace them.

Wish I had a media blaster to de-rust it all.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I was just reading along thinking about what you're doing from my typical custom automotive perspective, then it occurred to me - this monster rear end is going in your TRACTOR!!!!!! 

This is good stuff, and classic Woody!  Makes our hammered .250" steel plate hot rod parts seem completely "normal"...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I was just reading along thinking about what you're doing from my typical custom automotive perspective, then it occurred to me - this monster rear end is going in your TRACTOR!!!!!!
> 
> This is good stuff, and classic Woody!  Makes our hammered .250" steel plate hot rod parts seem completely "normal"...


But it is normal!
Isn't it?

Anyway, this was the original route I was heading down, using a Rover type axle, right at the beginning of the build until Jim started pointing me towards itty-bitty little garden tractor stuff!
I should have stuck to my guns and used what I had at the time.

Go back and have a look at the first couple dozen or so posts and you'll see I was on the right track all along.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> But it is normal!
> Isn't it?...


Works for me... 




Woodsmith said:


> ...Go back and have a look at the first couple dozen or so posts and you'll see I was on the right track all along.


No need, I remember that. It's just that my mind adjusted to the standard tractor "weight" stuff, and now that it's becoming a proper Woody tractor plan again, I was caught off guard.

Also, in the beginning, I probably imagined it to be a huge beastly tractor, based on some of the components and type of parts you were making.  Now that it exists, and is small enough to fit in your hallway, those parts seem like monster truck stuff going in a mini pickup! 

That's a good thing in my book, by the way...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I still have some steering swivels and drive shafts from the front axle I used to have. I wonder if they would adapt to fit that other Salisbury axle I have in the trailer....


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

hello Woody

do the stub axles bolt onto the casing like a standard landrover axle, if so l have some you can have along with some hubs if you find you need them,
think they are 110 but not sailsbury, cant remember, but if they are any use to you you can have them, are you just chopping the long side down to the same as the short side or chopping both sides down ?
my mower project is progressing 

Andy


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Andy, I have been following your build on the tractor forum, it is looking good! I love the bead blasted finish you got. I think I would have clear coated that! 

My plan is to cut both ends down to make an axle that is around 36" hub to hub only so that with the narrowest wheels I can still get the tractor in through the front door of the house! If I use short shafts both sides it will only come down to 48" hub to hub. Nice and easy but I will then need dry out door storage and it won't fit in my trailer.

I will need to see if the pinion flange will need to be off centre, though, to align with the Lada transfer box and then see if I like the off centre look. Currently the pinion would be 1" off to the right if the axle tubes are of equal length.
I would like the diff to be central as it will just look better from the back.

The stub axles are bolt on but I can't remember if they are Salisbury specific fit or standard across all rear axles. I will check.
Front stub axles won't fit, nor will the swivel flange mount but I can always weld the swivels on if I got that far, or get some laser cut flanges made up.
I am also not sure if 110 stubs are metric and Series 3 are imperial. I can check that also. They may depend on year of issue. I know some 110s were drum brake and some disc and that may lead to variations too.

I guess one way to find out.


I went out earlier to find the first axle had finished draining and so I put the other one on stands to drain overnight.
There is a lot of oil in the first one and a noticeable amount of water in the second one. I will need to check the gears for corrosion but maybe at my power levels it wouldn't matter for a few thousand miles at 10mph!


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## Andy.Baloo (Aug 11, 2012)

hi Woody

yes the blasted finish is nice, l should have thought of clear coat would have looked cool , just been out and sprayed them with 2 pack black, look newer than new now 

if you want those stub axles and hubs just let me know, l am back in openshaw tommorrow and will be again in a couple of weeks,

l guess its too late now you have bought an landrover axle but would a LDV/Transit axle have been any good, its a salisbury too, 5.7 ratio,
diff in the centre but would still need to shorten the axle casings although they are only plug welded and easy to machine out so the axle tubes will pull out, but the thing that might appeal is the dual wheels in either 14" or 16" flavor, just a thought as there is one here that will get weighed in one of the days 

Andy


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Andy,

Yes please, do bring up the stub axles if you are passing. I can always adjust to fit if close enough.
Thank you.

I wanted a Transit axle with the lower ratio but couldn't find one that was affordable. The 16" twin wheel option had also crossed my mind too, not so sure I could afford four 9.00x16 dumper tyres for them though.

I think the diff is swappable as all the Salisbury and Dana stuff seems to have all come off the same tooling so I might be interested....

I've not tried pulling out the axle tubes, I've heard mixed stories about doing that in the past. I would just cut the tubes square, bevel the edges and then fit together with a thin backing piece inside to locate it and then weld around it. That is how I extended them in the past to wide track, long shafts both sides, for my Land Rover 6x6.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Hi Andy,
> I've not tried pulling out the axle tubes, I've heard mixed stories about doing that in the past. I would just cut the tubes square, bevel the edges and then fit together with a thin backing piece inside to locate it and then weld around it. That is how I extended them in the past to wide track, long shafts both sides, for my Land Rover 6x6.


Woody,

I have cut and narrowed a number of axles and found a really simple way to get a nice square cut on the tubes. Borrow or rent a tubing cutter big enough to span the axle tube and use it to start (score) the tube. You don't want to cut all the way through because the cutter will bevel the tube in. Once you have a good score use a good hack saw or saws-all. The blade will follow the score and give a very clean square cut.

I've had a couple of people mention that the bevel that is produced by cutting all the way with the cutter would make a nice relief for welding but that would make it difficult to sleeve the inside and get a square concentric fit without making a fixture that registers on the bearing pockets.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> I have cut and narrowed a number of axles and found a really simple way to get a nice square cut on the tubes. Borrow or rent a tubing cutter big enough to span the axle tube and use it to start (score) the tube. You don't want to cut all the way through because the cutter will bevel the tube in. Once you have a good score use a good hack saw or saws-all. The blade will follow the score and give a very clean square cut.
> 
> ...


Cheers Jim, good to see you back again.

Great minds again!
I have a pipe cutter for ceramic drainage pipe and I was going to use that to try to get the score mark all the way around.

The first time I did it I wrapped a sheet of paper around the tube to get the cut line square in pencil before carefully working around it with a hacksaw. I think the pipe cutter will give a much better line though.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers Jim, good to see you back again.


Woody,

It's good to be back, my wife became terminally ill and passed so I've been a bit preoccupied over the last year.



Woodsmith said:


> The first time I did it I wrapped a sheet of paper around the tube to get the cut line square in pencil before carefully working around it with a hacksaw. I think the pipe cutter will give a much better line though.


The first time I did it I used a large hose clamp as a guide. That worked pretty well also. Then I used the cut axles and reassembled the diff to get everything into alignment before welding. 

Since then a friend made a fixture to do Ford 9 inch axles. It uses pucks of steel cut to slide into the bearing pockets at the axle ends and clamp into the carrier bearings. Each puck was center bored to slip fit a piece of ground shafting so when the shafting was inserted through the pucks, the three pieces fall into perfect alignment. Everybody doing a V8 with a 9 inch has him do their axle now.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> 
> It's good to be back, my wife became terminally ill and passed so I've been a bit preoccupied over the last year.
> 
> Jim


I am so very sorry to hear that, Jim, you have my deepest sympathy for your loss.
My thoughts are, and always have been, with you my friend.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

That goes for me too Jim - stay busy.....


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

My condolences Jim.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> My condolences Jim.


Jim,

Mine as well. Keep on pulling.

Chuck


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

After 13 weeks I finally got permission to remove the orthopedic boot and exercise my leg. So, first job, after a bit of celebratory cake baking, was to get the tractor out for a bit of an airing.

I drove over to my neighbour's house and he came out and decided to have a go.

I shot some video.

this one is a bit long.






Excuse the camera shake, I am still not that steady on my feet.

You can see the inner rear wheel slipping due to the welded diff.
It also leaves rubber on the cobbles!










It was good to get the tractor out, even though I didn't get much chance to drive it myself. That often happens.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Brillient Woody, Glad you are back to adventuring.

I thought the diff on the tractor was knackered and thats what the Salsbury was for.
John


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Brillient Woody, Glad you are back to adventuring.
> 
> I thought the diff on the tractor was knackered and that's what the Salisbury was for.
> John


It is knackered. I welded it solid to keep it running for the time being.


I do have the issue now of whether to graft the Salisbury, transfer box and further reduction gears onto the back of the tractor or to graft bits of the tractor onto a new Salisbury based chassis. That would allow me to build something a little bigger to withstand the sort of weights and forces that would be generated.



I promise I won't be 'upgrading' it to use my 12" motor.....


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I promise I won't be 'upgrading' it to use my 12" motor.....


Careful. You've put that in writing (and I've quoted it to be sure....)


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I promise I won't be 'upgrading' it to use my 12" motor.....


Why not?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Why not?


I can't afford anything stronger then a Salisbury axle!




I might use it but I won't be 'upgrading' for it....


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I can't afford anything stronger then a Salisbury axle!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last week I queried Woody's eternal cycle of bigger motor-stronger axle-break-bigger motor...., and was told it was 'R and D'

Which I think means "Rebuild and Destroy"...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Arch said:


> Last week I queried Woody's eternal cycle of bigger motor-stronger axle-break-bigger motor...., and was told it was 'R and D'
> 
> Which I think means "Rebuild and Destroy"...


Well, all the big vehicle makers have R&D.

Wait 'til I get to crash testing!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Arch said:


> Last week I queried Woody's eternal cycle of bigger motor-stronger axle-break-bigger motor...., and was told it was 'R and D'
> 
> Which I think means "Rebuild and Destroy"...


Sounds kind of like the process of life. 





Woodsmith said:


> Well, all the big vehicle makers have R&D.
> 
> Wait 'til I get to crash testing!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Well, all the big vehicle makers have R&D.
> 
> Wait 'til I get to crash testing!



Do I need to get a new cycling jersey?


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Arch said:


> Careful. You've put that in writing (and I've quoted it to be sure....)


Everyone knows " bigger is better ".


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Sooooo.....

Any thoughts as to how much torque a BMW K100 motorbike gearbox will handle?


























I was just thinking of the 2.47:1 ratio drop between the motor and the Lada transfer box and losing the chain drive.

I could have Motor - BMW gearbox - Lada transfer box - Salisbury axle.

That would give me 5 sequential gears and a 2 speed transfer box to get a good spread of ratios.


It could also mean I have 'flappy paddle' gear shift on a tractor!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Love it!! Nice one Alfred!!


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Arch said:


> Careful. You've put that in writing (and I've quoted it to be sure....)


Only a woman would spot this mistake.....LOL


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Well, all the big vehicle makers have R&D.
> 
> Wait 'til I get to crash testing!


Then you will be back in plaster.....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Then you will be back in plaster.....


Me?

Haven't you noticed its never me driving in the videos?


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Me?
> 
> Haven't you noticed its never me driving in the videos?


I was thinking more of what Arch will do to you.......


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

johnsiddle said:


> I was thinking more of what Arch will do to you.......



That was what I thought!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Sooooo.....
> 
> Any thoughts as to how much torque a BMW K100 motorbike gearbox will handle?


Hey Woody, remember this box was made by BMW, one of those companies in the world that ALWAYS over-engineers their products. I would think that the box would handle anything a single standard size for vehicle weight rear tire could hook to the ground. Remember these transmission would also haul around as many as three people with a side car, plus their luggage. That's getting up near the weight of your trike. I think the rear tire is going to be the limiting factor here as long as you don't do too many 5th gear burnouts.



Woodsmith said:


> I was just thinking of the 2.47:1 ratio drop between the motor and the Lada transfer box and losing the chain drive.
> 
> I could have Motor - BMW gearbox - Lada transfer box - Salisbury axle.
> 
> That would give me 5 sequential gears and a 2 speed transfer box to get a good spread of ratios.


Woody I know you can be a great kidder but 10 speeds on a lightweight trike



Woodsmith said:


> It could also mean I have 'flappy paddle' gear shift on a tractor!


I suggest that you take a real good look at this trans, many bike transmissions had removable gears on BOTH shafts. Ideal for putting 2 and say 4th or 5th next to each other in the shift drum sequence and allowing you to remove unneeded gears. Also remember that many BMW bikes were (and still are) equipped with a reverse, I believe it was an add on box for some transmissions. So the flappy shifter could be "ratchet forward from neutral to low gear, Ratchet full back for high gear, ratchet half forward (or back) for neutral" Knowing you are an ex biker I know that you know how to shift a sliding dog trans without a clutch (just unload the trans for a split second). Might be worth taking another look, possibly with a two piece drive shaft to allow more offset for a wider wheel.

Keep on building so I can "look over your shoulder and offer advise". That's about all I can do now.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Hi Jim, I was thinking of using the BMW trans on the tractor. The trike is single speed.

Even with the Salisbury's 4.7:1 LR gears (or 5.7:1 Ford Transit gears) and the Lada transfer box the overall ratio is still too high. I would need to drop by about 2.5:1 again and that would be nicely in between the BMW's 2nd and 3rd gear.

Using the trans would remove the chain drive to the transfer box making it quieter and losing a possible 'weak link' whipping my butt.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Hi Jim, I was thinking of using the BMW trans on the tractor. The trike is single speed.


Woody,

OOPs

Just gettin old, eyes see mind doesn't register.

I saw the single wheel in the back and just assumed

Jim



Woodsmith said:


> Even with the Salisbury's 4.7:1 LR gears (or 5.7:1 Ford Transit gears) and the Lada transfer box the overall ratio is still too high. I would need to drop by about 2.5:1 again and that would be nicely in between the BMW's 2nd and 3rd gear.
> 
> Using the trans would remove the chain drive to the transfer box making it quieter and losing a possible 'weak link' whipping my butt.


Yep, taking a chain from right under your butt is always a good thing. The way you are going with this tractor you are going right past compact size to small tractor.

Jim


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Woody,
> The way you are going with this tractor you are going right past compact size to small tractor.
> 
> Jim


That is where I am thinking of building a whole new chassis, from the axle forwards and having a longer, wider frame to mount everything on. Then I can transfer all the good parts from the existing tractor to it.

It might not fit in the house anymore though....



An alternative with the drive train could be to follow your Big 13 route and just have one ratio on a covered chain drive, motor over the axle.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

In order to bring yet another cast iron bathtub into the house (long story) I had to take the tractor out of the way.
Arch took this video of me bringing it back in again.

The clicking sound is the joiner in the chain catching on the tensioner bracket. It does that sometimes.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> In order to bring yet another cast iron bathtub into the house (long story) I had to take the tractor out of the way.
> Arch took this video of me bringing it back in again.
> 
> The clicking sound is the joiner in the chain catching on the tensioner bracket. It does that sometimes.


Its a good job you have a double door... That's a neat machine, is that the one with a new Landy axle?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Close fit! That is a nice machine. You need a backup beeper!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

PStechPaul said:


> Close fit! That is a nice machine. You need a backup beeper!



Over here, instead of a beeper, a lot of our lorries have a recording of a voice saying "Warning. Vehicle is Reversing". 

I wonder how much tape loop is required for "Warning! Woody's got the tractor out again, and he's backing up, and he's put an even bigger motor in it, so get out the way quick!"


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Arch said:


> Over here, instead of a beeper, a lot of our lorries have a recording of a voice saying "Warning. Vehicle is Reversing".
> 
> I wonder how much tape loop is required for "Warning! Woody's got the tractor out again, and he's backing up, and he's put an even bigger motor in it, so get out the way quick!"


With a set of wings he could park it at Manchester Airport....


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It is less of a close fit with the agri tyres. The big truck tyres only left an inch clearance!

I've not fitted the Land Rover axle yet as I am trying to decide if I want to keep it narrow enough to bring indoors. The extra weight on the timber floor might also be a factor!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

So good to see my old friend again, and you too Woody.  Just kidding!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> So good to see my old friend again, and you too Woody.  Just kidding!




Here's the shocker. Just shunting the tractor around at 1-2 mph in first gear the Cycle Analyst recorded 1200wh/m!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Here's the shocker.


Not literally I hope, given the power source...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I found the ideal hood ornament for the tractor.

Modern 4x4s sometimes have those pointless inclinometers on the dash showing how far the truck has leaned over climbing up the curb. I thought I would do likewise but with a nice bubble level!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I found the ideal hood ornament for the tractor...


That really is perfect.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The tractor has been idle for quite a while now, much of my time having been taken up by house building work, getting back to work and so many other things, least of all volunteering at a preservation railway!

Anyway, I have just bought a VW Golf mk1 4 speed trans for 99p on Ebay. I figured that I can weld the diff and then use the trans to drive the Land Rover axle getting some good overall ratios, 14mph in 4th gear at 3000rpm.

It means I can build the replacement rear end as a half chassis and then graft it onto the front of the tractor. I will have to find a clutch plate to make a coupler and then make an adaptor plate for the motor to fit the trans bell housing. It will be just like doing a conventional car conversion!

I am also going to make the tractor a bit bigger as it will not need to be living in the house in future. I am planning to build a tractor garage at the side of the house where there is a passageway giving about 53" of clearance over 12'. It will be a secure lean to shed so the tractor will be more accessible and less of a 'trip hazard' in the house.

The other thing is that the tractor may be doing some real agricultural work soon, before the rebuild.

Arch and I will be ripping up the concrete part of my house driveway that was used for car parking in the past. That will be the front garden and Arch's vegetable patch. The soil under the concrete will be hard, compacted and pretty dead so I want to make a cultivator or sub-soiler to bolt on the tractor's ground anchor so that I can use it to break the ground and work in some manure.

The garden is really a bit too small to bother with mechanical working, about the size of three cars side by side, but it will be fun to try.

Hopefully some of this will happen this winter.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Yeah tractor!


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> The tractor has been idle for quite a while now, much of my time having been taken up by house building work, getting back to work and so many other things, least of all volunteering at a preservation railway!
> 
> Anyway, I have just bought a VW Golf mk1 4 speed trans for 99p on Ebay. I figured that I can weld the diff and then use the trans to drive the Land Rover axle getting some good overall ratios, 14mph in 4th gear at 3000rpm.
> 
> ...


Why dont you and Arch move into the shed and leave the house to the tractor?????


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

johnsiddle said:


> Why dont you and Arch move into the shed and leave the house to the tractor?????


Ummmm, you're an already married man aren't you?

I'd quite like to _be_ a married man in due course.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Ummmm, you're an already married man aren't you?
> 
> I'd quite like to _be_ a married man in due course.


Good point.... You can move into the shed after you are married.....


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## aodshocky (Jan 19, 2014)

this was like reading a great book only to find out that the last chapter has not been finished. i then realized that this is the time of year that does not get to much posting done for this project. can not wait for the warmer weather to see more.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The last chapter will get written. 

I am just very busy setting up in business again, after illness, and also renovating my house prior to getting married.

I have 8 weekends now to build a guest room before we have visitors.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

I am still lurking !!! Congrads!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

As a part of the house renovation stuff we are doing I had to move the tractor back out of the hall and into the trailer again.

The tractor wouldn't run despite being left with charged batteries. The voltmeter was showing 29V from the 48V pack.

I recharged the pack, one battery at a time and found that it only had enough power to drive about 30 yards before the voltage collapsed again.

I checked the individual voltages and found that the resting voltage was 12.6, 12.7, 12.6, 11.4
I charged up each battery and found afterwards
12.8, 12.9, 12.7, 12.1

I reckon I have a bad battery and three very tired batteries. They are ex scrap yard Optima red tops from Simon Rafferty.

I guess it might be time for a new pack and a proper 48v charger.

One plan is to make a removable lithium pack so that it can live in the tractor and also be pulled out as a 'make it run for testing' power pack for the trike later on. Maybe build the removable pack as a modular unit with the charger built in.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I guess it might be time for a new pack and a proper 48v charger.
> 
> One plan is to make a removable lithium pack so that it can live in the tractor and also be pulled out as a 'make it run for testing' power pack for the trike later on. Maybe build the removable pack as a modular unit with the charger built in.


I love the swappable pack idea - that's my only feasible way to get the Inhaler running in the short term - make it run off Scrape's pack.

Can only drive/ride one of 'em at a time! 

Also, I purchased a cheapo 48v scooter charger from eBay and, even though it's slow as molasses in a Polar Vortex, it makes the bike much more enjoyable because I can simply plug it in. Feels like a _normal_ EV...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had a thought.

As I need to do a partial rebuild of the tractor, and replace the batteries, and as I will want to 'borrow' the pack to get my truck running and legal, and as I will have a new project using the running gear from 'Beryl', Arch's work EV truck, and as I have been planning on quick release swapable battery packs, I could make up a small battery and controller unit.

The plan is to make a standard box that will fit each vehicle. Install a 48v lithium pack of 40 or 60 Ah. Include in the box: isolator contactor, controller, reversing contactor, fuses, and charger maybe.

The box can then be 'hung' on the vehicle, a multi pin plug will connect the control circuits on the vehicle to the box, two Anderson plugs will connect to the motor, a mains lead to plug in for charging.

I can then use the one pack and controller on each vehicle as needed on the tractor and on Beryl, and to 'prove' the truck concept.

All being well the truck will get its own version with an open revolt controller and charger, switchable for 48, 96, and 144v. One or two additional matching slave boxes will 'daisy chain' to increase the voltage as needs and funds allow.

What do you think?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That's quite similar to an idea I've had for quite some time. If each module is 48V or less, it will be relatively safe to handle, and the protective components will be less expensive than ones rated at much higher DC voltages. It should be possible to put several modules in parallel for higher current. However, if you put them in series for higher voltage, the fuses and contactors could see the higher total pack voltage, and that must be taken into account.

My concept was a little different in that it would incorporate an isolated DC-DC boost converter to provide a higher DC voltage capable of driving a VFD with 300 VDC or 600 VDC which could be obtained by series or parallel connection. It would be "fail-safe" because the high voltage would only be generated when the converter is working, and otherwise you would have only the lower battery voltage available. I would also have an isolated switching DC-DC charger built-in, and it might also be used to provide dynamic regenerative braking by using the motor voltage as the input and the lower DC output as the charging voltage for the batteries.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I like the idea of a dc-dc to boost the controller voltage but I doubt I would need it as much for my low speed needs.

Incorporating the 12v dc-dc is a good idea though.

One aspect is trying too keep the box weight low enough to lift manually.
I had thought about a little lift trolley but my driveway is all rough cobbles so trolleys don't roll well.
Also if I can keep the box to a max 24" long, 12" high, and 18" wide it will fit well on all three vehicles. I will need to check cell sizes and other components. I wouldn't mind if the charger was external then.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> I like the idea of a dc-dc to boost the controller voltage but I doubt I would need it as much for my low speed needs.
> 
> Incorporating the 12v dc-dc is a good idea though.
> 
> ...


Hi Woody.
I hope you are free from injuries at this time, becareful doing restoration work on the house.
Its a dangeraous place to work.

As you know I use three sets of 48v in my Volvo and to charge them I use three 54v power supplies from China.

They are able to be adjusted/used up to 57v (above that they make a buzzing soud and will blow up if left) which is about right for float charge. (14.25 v per battery or less if you wish)
They also have adjustable current limiting from low to 9amps max.
They soon put the charge back in my pack.

What is the cost of Lithiums these day's???? The weak spot in my Volvo as I only have 80amp batteries which is not a lot of range, I do have a 600w generator in the boot tho for emergencies.


john


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Arch said:


> Over here, instead of a beeper, a lot of our lorries have a recording of a voice saying "Warning. Vehicle is Reversing".
> 
> I wonder how much tape loop is required for "Warning! Woody's got the tractor out again, and he's backing up, and he's put an even bigger motor in it, so get out the way quick!"


You just need a little MP3 player and a loudspeaker swiched by the reversing switch.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

So far I am free from any injuries or unexpected defects, apart from a filling falling out of a tooth. No current house building work either.

Only two weeks left to our wedding day so I am being careful to remain in one piece an not in hospital!


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey Woody,

I've just finished reading through the 81 pages of this electric tractor build thread, and enjoyed minute of it! You're amazingly skilled at what you do. I loved the iterations and improvements you made throughout the years. Just wanted to say a bit 'Thank you so much!' for sharing the build with us, it's been a great inspiration (I'm about to embark on a compact tractor EV conversion...). I've subscribed and am looking forward to the next installment of the tractor build (as well as your EV-quadricycle), whenever you get round to it.

Much respect and kind regards from a springy NZ,

Duncan.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi Woody.
On the subject of charge points why not get British Gas to instal you a free one.
http://www.britishgas.co.uk/products-and-services/energy-saving/electric-vehicles.html 

You dont have to own an EV just tell them you are thinking of buying one.
They dont care much anyway cuz the Gov is paying.

Get the matching socket from AliBaba.

Sorry Woody, I have just read the link I posted, and see that British Gas ar now charging £115. 


john


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

DMA said:


> Hey Woody,
> 
> I've just finished reading through the 81 pages of this electric tractor build thread, and enjoyed minute of it! You're amazingly skilled at what you do. I loved the iterations and improvements you made throughout the years. Just wanted to say a bit 'Thank you so much!' for sharing the build with us, it's been a great inspiration (I'm about to embark on a compact tractor EV conversion...). I've subscribed and am looking forward to the next installment of the tractor build (as well as your EV-quadricycle), whenever you get round to it.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

Progress will still be slow as funds are tight, as is the case for many people, but there will be updates as the project continues.

Good luck with your own project, it will be great to see a build thread here to see how you get on.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

> Hi Woody.
> On the subject of charge points why not get British Gas to instal you a free one.
> http://www.britishgas.co.uk/products...-vehicles.html
> 
> ...


Nah, I'll install my own charging point. I have enough stuff in stock for the outlet and don't plan to charge elsewhere, except from a domestic socket once in a while.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

<<<<NEWS FLASH>>>>

There are some really lovely and generous people out there.
Someone, who wants to remain anonymous, has gifted/sponsored/supported me with a surprise battery pack for the tractor.

A large crate arrived this morning.

In it was sixteen 60Ah Calb cells and two 8cell BMS units.

I am most amazed and surprised by this and most humbled by the thought and generosity.
Thank you very, very much, you know who you are. 



I will now need to get on with building up the pack to fit the tractor and also sort out a charger for it too.
Any advice on that will be much appreciated.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Wow! That's awesome Woody! 

Kudos to the source of goodness!


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> <<<<NEWS FLASH>>>>
> 
> There are some really lovely and generous people out there.
> Someone, who wants to remain anonymous, has gifted/sponsored/supported me with a surprise battery pack for the tractor.
> ...


Wow! whose a lucky boy......
I need 150volts worth of 100Ah.... if anyones listening.....

well done mate.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks guys.

I am still  and in awe of the gift.

I will be looking for a suitable box to put the pack into that will make it a portable unit now.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Ya See what happens when you have a heart Wood! 

So happy for you and Thanks to whomever it was !!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Ya See what happens when you have a heart Wood!
> 
> So happy for you and Thanks to whomever it was !!!


I read that as a 'heart _*of*_ wood'!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> I read that as a 'heart _*of*_ wood'!


Yes, Dave does not complete sentences to make others think !!! 

LOL..


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

At Sunday school I was taught that all good things come from above. Perhaps it was the ARCHangel?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

poprock1 said:


> At Sunday school I was taught that all good things come from above. Perhaps it was the ARCHangel?


Nah, Arch was as surprised as I was.

It was a complete stranger, from another part of the world, who has decided to just help out, maybe 'paying it forward'? 


I bought some steel today that might have to be used in one or the other of my project vehicles!


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> <<<<NEWS FLASH>>>>
> 
> There are some really lovely and generous people out there.
> Someone, who wants to remain anonymous, has gifted/sponsored/supported me with a surprise battery pack for the tractor.
> ...


Wow, that's awesome Woody!  You must have done something right to get an early Christmas present? hehe. I guess you can make one of your planned modular power box now. 

Not that I want to hijack this amazing thread, but I've just created a new thread of my own tractor conversion project here. Hopefully I can make Bleuie half as awesome as your creation Woody.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

DMA said:


> Wow, that's awesome Woody!  You must have done something right to get an early Christmas present? hehe. I guess you can make one of your planned modular power box now.
> 
> Not that I want to hijack this amazing thread, but I've just created a new thread of my own tractor conversion project here. Hopefully I can make Bleuie half as awesome as your creation Woody.


Cheers!

Scary what some folks must think of me to do that! 

I am slowly putting together the plan to make an all in one power unit box that will be liftable without breaking my back.
The tractor may need a major rebuild to get the Land Rover axle underneath so it might be an opportunity to include some other design ideas, extending the wheel base, adding a winch and small pick up bed behind the seat perhaps and maybe a crane or lift platform for loading stuff.

It may be quiet but the cogs are whirring away.

I have looked at your thread and now have tractor envy!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Today, while picking up a Land Rover roof to use in extending my trailer, I also took the opportunity to pick up a short half shaft for the Salisbury axle I have.

I can now look forward to cutting the axle down so that I can have a short shaft in both sides making it narrower.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The tractor powered it way out of storage on lithium power today.

I wanted to get it out as I need to build a sub soiler or ripper for it to break up some compacted ground in a local park.
A community growing group lifted the turf to grow a wild flower meadow and found that the soil was so dry and compacted that they couldn't do anything with it. Rain water was just running off the surface and washing away the scattered seeds.

Arch suggested to them that someone with a tractor and appropriate tooling would be able to break up the surface. It slowly dawned on the growing group that she was talking about me! 
So now I have another project to work on! 

I am going to use the ground anchor as the mounting point for the ripping tines but it might be a trailing tool or it might be reversed and pushed under the belly of the tractor.
Not sure yet.


Compared to pushing into storage when the lead acid pack was dead, driving it back was a doddle!


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Hurrah! Good to hear the tractor has had some powered movement - especially with the newfangled LiFePo4 pack.  Have you built a box for them, or was the movement just 'temporary' move out of storage? **edit**: _Just saw the plastic battery box sitting on the back, behind the driver's seat._

Wow, that's some hard ground. Will be interesting to see what kind of current you pull when ripping it up, vs when 'idle' driving.

Are you planning on building the ripper yourself? Will you get some tynes and attach them to a home-made frame? Or will you build it all from scratch? Either way, looking forward to the thing that the maker of things makes.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Yep --- nice!! I suppose you are doing "wheelies" everywhere!!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Very cool and certainly unique in appearance. The engine compartment looks like two headstones fore and aft. I don't know if I'll get anything done on my tractor project this year. I had cervical spine surgery 2 weeks ago and once that heals I will need to get similar work done on my lumbar spine, probably end of summer. Lots of time to plan, but little ability to do the work. Kudos on your fine project!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

No wheelies until I get the Land Rover axle narrowed and installed. This time the tractor needs to be able to do a job, albeit a voluntary community one.

I will probably buy some cheap crow (wrecking) bars and clamp them to a frame that I can attach to the tractor's ground anchor and use them as the ripping tines. It is a one off job so I don't want to invest too much into it.

The easy thing would be to make a tow along cultivator and do the job with my car but it is a chance to play with the tractor a bit.

Just moving it about on the drive in first gear at a very slow crawl against the foot brake used 940Whr/mile according to the cycle Analyst!  Granted that isn't the most economical way of driving but it afford the best control in the small space I had. Speed was less then 0.1mph and didn't even register on the display! 

Everything I do at this time will be temporary and very 'make do' (more so then usual).
I think I will end up doing a complete breakdown rebuild around the Land Rover axle, transmission and motor.

I even had thoughts of moving the seating up to the front and putting a load bed at the back.
Much like this tiny dump truck we saw at the Pickering Steam Rally in 2013. It is about the size of a golf buggy.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Starting to sound like you are making mini me beryl


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Starting to sound like you are making mini me Beryl


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I got into the workshop and did some cutting and welding.

For the ripper tines I cut some 50 x 8mm flat bar and some 20mm round bar.
These were welded to the back of the ground anchor giving 6" of ground penetration.

With the anchor refitted I then used an old trailer jockey wheel jack to push the ripper into the ground. As the clamp for the jack doesn't allow any pivoting movement I added an extra link made from an old mountain bike suspension unit. That allows some pivoting and also a bit of springing in the system.

The winding handle is behind the seat and I am able to wind it while driving. There is enough push for the ripper to lift the rear wheels of the tractor clean off the ground. That should be plenty of down force into the soil.

The 50 x 6mm flat bar over the tines give them some extra lateral strenght and also means an assistant can stand on it to add a little extra weight if needed.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Just a 'ponder'....

I still don't have a charger for the lithium pack.
I do, however, have the charger for Beryl's 48v lead pack. Is there a way to use that to recharge the lithium pack in the short term until I can afford to get a proper charger?

Cheers.

I can try and get a photo of the Beryl's charger in case there is useful info there.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

As long as the lead charger current limit is within the safe range for your lithium pack, and close to the same float voltage, it should be OK, AFAIK. You should also add a voltage sensing relay which will stop charging when the maximum pack voltage is reached, preferably when end-charging at about C/10 or C/20. A series resistor may help, and you can lower the effective float voltage with silicon diodes at about 0.7 volts each. Might also be good to add a timer set to cut off when full charge is expected, depending on the C rate and initial state of (dis)charge.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> As long as the lead charger current limit is within the safe range for your lithium pack, and close to the same float voltage, it should be OK, AFAIK. You should also add a voltage sensing relay which will stop charging when the maximum pack voltage is reached, preferably when end-charging at about C/10 or C/20. A series resistor may help, and you can lower the effective float voltage with silicon diodes at about 0.7 volts each. Might also be good to add a timer set to cut off when full charge is expected, depending on the C rate and initial state of (dis)charge.


Thank you.

OK, that's sort of confused me a little but I will do some research into what you've said and see what I can figure out and do.

Sounds like you are saying yes but I need to make sure the max current and floating voltage are correct (I can check that and measure) and then make sure I don't over charge. So either put stuff (electronic bits) in to ensure that, or monitor it as much as possible as they near full charge and switch off before I over cook it.

That sound about right?


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

It has been my experience especially that life gets in the way of monitoring battery charge. You want the process to STOP when full for LiPO and you want it that way every time like when constable knocks on your door. Otherwise, there goes an overcharge leading to swelling.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> It has been my experience especially that life gets in the way of monitoring battery charge. You want the process to STOP when full for LiPO and you want it that way every time like when constable knocks on your door. Otherwise, there goes an overcharge leading to swelling.


Noted.

I will see how I can ensure that before I mess it all up. 

Thank you.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I decided to cut the old battery box frame off the front of the tractor and place the new box length ways to have it lower down and narrower.
I also refitted the oak bonnet (hood) to cover the exposed electrics on the back of the dash board.


I don't think anyone would notice it is slightly, errr, different!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Woodsmith said:


> Just a 'ponder'....
> 
> I still don't have a charger for the lithium pack.
> I do, however, have the charger for Beryl's 48v lead pack. Is there a way to use that to recharge the lithium pack in the short term until I can afford to get a proper charger?
> ...


This is the data plate from the Curtis Charger that came with Beryl. Not sure if it helps with anything at all.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Woody" Take it from an old farmer......

A pull-behind type of implement needs to be either heavy or sharp to cut in or it will just skid along the top and do little tillage. The best way for this type to work is to have someone stand on the implement when you are making a cut.

A belly mount is far better for your type of set up. You can use the weight of the tractor to control the soil penetration depth. The down side is that it is harder to attach and operate.

BTW: This type of implement with many smaller teeth is called a "Harrow".
A "ripper" is the same thing, just a few large/longer teeth.

A cheap Harrow can be made by making a small triangle of anything, about 6Cm square in cross section and a meter per side. Use 12mm concrete reinforcing bar to cut a bunch of 16Cm pieces, sharpen one end. Weld them to the triangle as close as you deem necessary. Make multiple passes .










Cotton picker spindles make the best teeth as they are long/tapered and high chromium steel. Any tractor shop will have buckets of them that have been changed out. Some just give them away. They are changed out because they get the tiny barbs worn down. 

Miz


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Miz. 

The spikes are pushed down with the winding handle on the trailer jack and pushes hard enough to lift the tractor off the ground.

It was going to be a single tine sub-soiler but I figured that I didn't have enough clearance for that depth, nor enough traction. So it developed into three smaller tines.

I am yet to hear back from the community gardeners so not sure what is happening there.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

PStechPaul said:


> As long as the lead charger current limit is within the safe range for your lithium pack, and close to the same float voltage, it should be OK, AFAIK. You should also add a voltage sensing relay which will stop charging when the maximum pack voltage is reached, preferably when end-charging at about C/10 or C/20. A series resistor may help, and you can lower the effective float voltage with silicon diodes at about 0.7 volts each. Might also be good to add a timer set to cut off when full charge is expected, depending on the C rate and initial state of (dis)charge.


Indeed - the 8 cell BMS units you mentioned, they don't perchance have high/low voltage relay capability perhaps? Are they the 'Cell Logger 8S' type?  If they are, you could use them to turn off the Pb charger once 'full' voltage is reached for any particular cell. This, in conjunction with top balancing and monitoring, should work.

Here's the manual that has some detail on it:

http://www.progressiverc.com/media/CellLog%208S.pdf

And a forum post from someone else who has done something similar:

http://priuschat.com/threads/cell-logger-8s-help-with-operation-with-a-relay.123279/page-2

Hope this helps!


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Well, we took the tractor out today to try it at the park..

It worked! Hopefully this link does too.

http://vid8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/SueArcher/DSCN3817.mp4

Woody will be along shortly with details and photos, I'm the one with the laptop just about capable of uploading a video...

(Oh, and Hi! Everyone!)


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The tractor performed really well.

I was able to wind the tines right into the soil to the point where the front edge of the ground anchor was scraping the surface. The limitation was finding many bricks and large stones in the soil causing a loss of traction. The tractor wasn't really heavy enough to put all the power through the tyres and into the ground so I spent a lot of time winding the tool up and down.

With only three tines welded to the anchor each run was done twice, over lapping a bit, to get more break up of the soil. I could have run with six tines without any problem but would have found more bricks!

The soil was still quite firm despite recent rains and so hopefully now we are done it will be better for seeding with wild flower seeds.

The 'knocking' noise is the split link on the drive chain just clipping the chain tensioner bracket.

Overall it ran at 1667Wh/mile and the voltage did sag to 30v at one point but recovered after a short break. Current draw wasn't that high, around 100A on the analogue gauge.
The CA display took so long to cycle around each display range that I had finished a run before I could see a reading.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Too cool - great to see my old buddy getting a little exercise! 

You too Woody!


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Yep hard at work ! Great to see !!!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thank you.

It was good to get out there and do some work with it, just to prove it, before I take it apart again to fit the Land Rover axle.
I have a couple more photos that Arch took but my laptop is refusing to process the images.

I will try again later.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That's a nice machine. Gotta get rid of that clacking noise, though! 

I hope I can get some work done on my tractor project(s) this summer, but just 5 weeks ago I just had 4 level cervical discectomy and fusion surgery on the spine in my neck, and it makes doing heavy work difficult. Plus I still need to get the lumbar spine done, which has been the source of most of my orthopedic issues. Yesterday I resurrected my electric mower which required wrestling with a frozen blade shaft and bushing, and today I am stiff and sore in many places.

I bought it two years ago for $25, including the two extension cords.









One of the old belts had snapped last year, and the new ones cost more than I paid for the mower. It had been sitting under an old leaky tarp since then, until I finally decided to fix it. It felt good to get it running again and it does a good job, but dragging the extension cords around is a hassle.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Excellent work Woody!  It's great to see the tractor moving and working, well done. And thanks for the figures and 'clacking' explanation - I was going to ask, haha.

Have you figured out how you're going to do your charging/balancing yet? I've been looking at Peter Perkins' BMS system with a few friends here in NZ, and it looks pretty good (seems to tick all of our boxes). I need a replacement BMS for Eve (a conversion I bought a few months ago), and will let you know how we get on if you like?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> That's a nice machine. Gotta get rid of that clacking noise, though!


Shame about your inactivity, hopefully you can heal well and quickly though the next bit of surgery.

Having the mower on batteries would be good. All that cord would be a PITA to drag around and not cut through.

The clacking noise will go. The tractor will be completely rebuilt.
I am going for a Land Rover Salisbury axle, a VW Polo transaxle to drive it, and no more noisy chain drive from the motor. I might even switch up to my 11", or the 12", motor and use the current 9" motor in the truck/Beryl build.


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## Arch (Aug 21, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> Shame about your inactivity, hopefully you can heal well and quickly though the next bit of surgery.
> 
> Having the mower on batteries would be good. All that cord would be a PITA to drag around and not cut through.
> .


How about an electric grid/net all above the lawn, and a pick-up, like a dodgem car? ;-)


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Cool! Then you could have an automatic mower with it's own "Home" where it parks to charge. Like those vacuum cleaners for the house. 

Miz


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## samwichse (Jan 28, 2012)

Like a Mad Max version of this http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-mowers/husqvarna-robotic-mowers-for-homeowners/


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There was some discussion of making an electric farm tractor powered from the grid by means of a rotating boom like those used for irrigation. It would make "crop circles". 

Another way to do it is to wrap the extension cord around a post and have the tractor/mower make an ever-larger spiral path until it reached the end (and perhaps it would unplug itself). A 6" diameter post would provide 18" wide paths, just right for my little mower.

The Soviets did it:
http://jalopnik.com/5796595/when-the-soviets-built-an-electric-tractor


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A grid supplied 'tractor' would work for smaller fields.

I think I'd go for a grid powered winch and pulley system hauling implements up and down a field. The winch can be anchored on a track on one side of the field and a return pulley on the other side.
The implement would be hauled back and forth in the same way as the old steam ploughing engines did.


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

samwichse said:


> Like a Mad Max version of this http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-mowers/husqvarna-robotic-mowers-for-homeowners/


Now that looks like the Tron version to me.

Miz


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I think I have recharged the battery pack! 

The pack voltage before charging was 39.9Volts.
I used Beryl's Curtis charger straight onto the pack and monitored the current and voltage.
It charged at 15-20 amps and the voltage slowly crept up to 54.6 volts over 2hrs.
I then had to leave for work it so I switched off and went out for a couple of hours. On return the cells were each at 3.34v with a couple flickering on 3.33-3.34v with a pack voltage of 53.4 volts.

The pack voltage when new was 52.4 volts.

I hope it is all ok....


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Looks good to me Woody!  what's the cutoff on the charger do you know? The pack/cells can habdle upt to approx 57v (3.6v per cell). It's just partially charged now, which won't hurt the cells.

If possible, I wouldn't let the pack drop below 40v (2
5v each cell). They don't like that.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thank you. 
I will continue charging when I am next around for long enough to monitor the pack. Out all day tomorrow.

I'm not sure what the charger cut off is, I guess I can charge up to 57v and then switch off if the charger doesn't do so automatically.

I hadn't expected the pack to have gotten that low. The pack was well used last Sunday and then left standing in the trailer. Yesterday, Friday, I did a lot of shunting about to get the tractor out of the trailer and back behind Beryl on the driveway. I noticed the pack was sagging below 40v and so switched off and pushed the tractor the rest of the way.
That was sorta the trigger to get the pack charged by fair means or foul.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Woodsmith said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what the charger cut off is, I guess I can charge up to 57v and then switch off if the charger doesn't do so automatically.


Playing with fire here Woody. Be careful. I would stop at 56, preferably with something automatic monitoring the stop.

Someone who has destroyed more batteries than a video game


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Playing with fire here Woody. Be careful. I would stop at 56, preferably with something automatic monitoring the stop.
> 
> Someone who has destroyed more batteries than a video game


Hmmm, that's a point.

I guess, as the batteries were gifted to me I should remember to value them more so then if I had paid with my own money. Destroying them wouldn't be good, or nice, given it is someone else's investment.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I put the charger back on today and let it run with a view to regular monitoring.

Then forgot about it over lunch and shopping with Arch and stuff! 

Anyway, just ran down to check and the charger had finished it's charge cycle and the pack is at 56.1 Volts. I hope it was ok up to the point of the charger switching off.

Anyway, I checked the cell voltages and they range from 3.48-3.51 volts.


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> The tractor performed really well.
> 
> I was able to wind the tines right into the soil to the point where the front edge of the ground anchor was scraping the surface. The limitation was finding many bricks and large stones in the soil causing a loss of traction. The tractor wasn't really heavy enough to put all the power through the tyres and into the ground so I spent a lot of time winding the tool up and down.
> 
> ...


Brillient.
Well done Woody/Arch.

PS, still looking for affordable lithiums.
regards John


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

mizlplix said:


> Cool! Then you could have an automatic mower with it's own "Home" where it parks to charge. Like those vacuum cleaners for the house.
> 
> Miz


You could use all the electronics from one of those robot vaccs and just scale up the motor and batteries......


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Woodsmith said:


> I put the charger back on today and let it run with a view to regular monitoring.
> 
> Then forgot about it over lunch and shopping with Arch and stuff!
> 
> ...


What did I warn you about????? Cool, sounds like you are good to go.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I have finally sorted out wiring for the Cellogs that came with the lithium pack. 

I could have spent a little money on buying two of these but decided to visit Maplin's and bought the 10 row plug and pins for half the cost and wired it myself.

The main reason is that I am often dubious about spam and security when sending my financial details to far east sellers.

I now need to figure out the software to read the Cellogs.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

Woodsmith said:


> I have finally sorted out wiring for the Cellogs that came with the lithium pack.
> 
> I could have spent a little money on buying two of these but decided to visit Maplin's and bought the 10 row plug and pins for half the cost and wired it myself.
> 
> ...


Good stuff Woody! 

I assume you're running Windows? I used a program called "Terminal". It's a simple program that you can use to communicate to a serial com port. Here's the website detailing it:

https://sites.google.com/site/terminalbpp/

I used the cell loggers to log the 56 cells in my EV (we call here Eve - she's our first EV!). I knew that some cells were dodgy and needed replacing, but the voltage levels all seemed fine when not under load. So I needed some data on the cells while under load.

A couple of pointers on using the Cell Loggers:


Be sure to create a log file before you start logging! Otherwise you can't transmit it to the Terminal program afterwards. Let me know if you would like help in how to do this.
Be sure to disconnect them when not actively monitoring - there is more draw on one of the cells than the rest, so it will unbalance your pack.
When you've connected the cell logger to your PC for uploading the logs, you need to connect to it from the Terminal program first. After you have connected, be sure to press the 'start log' next. Then you select the log file on the celllogger itself (through the menu), and select 'transmit'. You should see the data streaming to the Terminal window.


At risk of semi-hijacking your thread here's some of the logs for Eve.


Driving profile: http://loxley-farmlet.com/clusters.eve.ui.php?date=20150612&clusters=0,1,2,3,4,5,6
Charging profile: http://loxley-farmlet.com/clusters.eve.ui.php?date=20150613&clusters=0,1,2,3,4,5,6&interval=50


And yes, I know, charging cells above 3.6v is bad. There's obviously a problem with the BMS that came with the conversion and I'm tracking it down... 


Anyway, once you have the logs in a file, feel free to send them to me and I'll upload them for graphing if you like. I know it's a very manual process (I'm working on automating it), but I found it invaluable to see what was going on.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If the output transmitted from the cell loggers is in CSV (comma delimited) format, you should be able to import that directly into Excel or Open Office Spreadsheet and obtain graphs as you have done. But it may be tricky to separate the different cells you are monitoring. I did it for a single cell test with data for time, current, and voltage.

Teraterm is another terminal application that works well on Win7/8.


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## DMA (Jan 7, 2013)

PStechPaul said:


> If the output transmitted from the cell loggers is in CSV (comma delimited) format, you should be able to import that directly into Excel or Open Office Spreadsheet and obtain graphs as you have done. But it may be tricky to separate the different cells you are monitoring. I did it for a single cell test with data for time, current, and voltage.
> 
> Teraterm is another terminal application that works well on Win7/8.



They are indeed in CSV format (delimeter character is ';').

Here's a bit of a snippit from one of them:


```
Terminal log file
Date: 19/06/2015 - 1:46:17 p.m.
-----------------------------------------------
$STARTBULK;510;1000;122
$1;1;;3173;3172;3161;3161;3184;3174;3173;3180;25378;29
$1;1;;3176;3172;3161;3162;3184;3174;3174;3182;25385;28
$1;1;;3176;3172;3161;3162;3184;3174;3174;3183;25386;30
$1;1;;3176;3172;3162;3162;3185;3174;3174;3183;25388;18
$1;1;;3176;3172;3163;3163;3185;3176;3174;3184;25393;29
$1;1;;3176;3172;3162;3162;3185;3176;3174;3183;25390;25
...
```
Fields being:

?;?;;Cell1;Cell2;Cell3;Cell4;Cell5;Cell6;Cell7;Cell8;CellsTotal;Temperature(?)

The voltage readings are in milliVolts. I'm not sure if the last reading is in fact temperature (value kind of matches...), as it seems to fluctuate quite a lot. The temp would be taken from the loggers themselves, not at the cells, and these were within the car.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Only took about ten minutes to get this:


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## tinkeringgreg (Mar 27, 2008)

What ever happened to Woody's tractor the saga just came to an abrupt end?
Its a great story about a good project


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

You have a point tinkeringgreg......

Hi there Woody or Arch, you still around?
the last posting on this was ages ago.

I hope married life is good for you, perhaps that is why you have not posted for a while...

take care John


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## Maker_of_Things (Jun 28, 2019)

Hi Everyone!

Woody here, under a new name.

Sorry I have been absent, much going on, new married life, new business, many new activities in the community, and the login system as it was back then stopped letting me in!

No idea why but my password stopped working, the Admin access stopped working, password renew stopped working, basically I was locked out and unable to do anything about it!
I still get all the emails about spam though!

Anyway I will pop a bit more now...


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## johnsiddle (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi Woody.
Welcome back. I am sure some admin will promote you back to Admin quite soon.
Glad things are going good for you and Arch.
Since you have been gone my car has blown up loads of IGBTs so much so that I decided it had to be the motor.
It came out with a blue comm so I reckon it was definitive. I think it has been faulty from the start but put up with a poor Lead 144v but the Lithium 174v finally started the rot.
I am now in the process of fitting a forklift hydraulic motor with forced cooling and taking advantage of the strip down to design new charge electronics so that I charge the whole pack as one instead of three 58v chargers. It will simplify the wiring as well.
I shall post new pictures later.

How are the projects you had going, the tractor in particular?

Anyway good to hear from you.
Regards John


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## Maker_of_Things (Jun 28, 2019)

Noooooo! Don't make me admin! I have too much to do as it is!

Glad to hear there has been progress on your car, albeit finding what has been wrong and blowing things up. But still, that's the way to learn...


I haven't done anything ore with the tractor, sadly, as it has been at the back of the pile of stuff on the driveway. Beryl is in pieces and I found she was so rotten that she would be completely beyond any viable repair.
However, I am saving her cab and back axle. Maybe also her front axle though that is very worn out.

My current slow burn is to use Beryl's cab to build a 5/8 scale of an AEC Matador timber tractor, one that has been recabbed in the post war ear and fitted with a timber crane and winches.

My collection of DC forklift motors and Curtis controllers are still sitting in the workshop like some sort of time capsule of where I was when I last posted here. The lovely little 48v Lithium pack is still there, charged and monitored. 

I am no further with a car project as I just figured technology has moved so fast that I might as well save for a Tesla drive unit from Zero EV.
https://zero-ev.co.uk/ev-conversion-kits/

But it is still weighing up the cost of a conversion to buying a Nissan E-NV200.


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## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Just a quick HI! And glad to see you check in - I too am way too busy with life to be here .....
Dave


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## Maker_of_Things (Jun 28, 2019)

Cheers, Likewise too busy with life, work, everything.


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Surely common sense will be applied by admin and recognise the 290k views of your previous thread..We must depose the black prince and restore Woody to his former glory!!


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

There are "Admins" and "Admins"
This one knows how to zap spammers and .... that's about all!

I hope one of the more knowledgeable Admins does something - but anyway - welcome back


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## Maker_of_Things (Jun 28, 2019)

Thank you!

It is good to be back, albeit intermittently due to work load. Not sure now how much time I can spend on forums for the time being.

I can't believe I am gearing up to quote for another few months of work in a secret underground military bunker! It's an ongoing job renovating a national WW2 museum. A couple of years ago we built an entire street scene of interactive shops, a road, and the back of a lorry, in 3 months.


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