# 355vdc Motor options?



## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

What kinds of options do I have if my battery is 355vdc nominal (96s LiPo)? Goal is 60 seconds at 110 kW.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

McRat said:


> What kinds of options do I have if my battery is 355vdc nominal (96s LiPo)? Goal is 60 seconds at 110 kW.


Remy motor/Rinehart controller,

UQM, 

Evo Electric/Rinehart controller,

Tesla (salvage),

Siemens


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks!

Well, after a quick glance at Remy pricing ($20k) I suppose I better consider reconfiguring the pack to a different voltage.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

McRat said:


> Well, after a quick glance at Remy pricing ($20k) I suppose I better consider reconfiguring the pack to a different voltage.


The duty cycle is the bitch.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

McRat said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Well, after a quick glance at Remy pricing ($20k) I suppose I better consider reconfiguring the pack to a different voltage.


Reconfiguring your pack is certainly an option, there are much cheaper options if you have time to wait for a good deal. There a lot of Siemens motors still rattling around out there.


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

What model Siemens would I be looking at?

I have one of the Azure Dynamics 24LS motors, but from my reading, it's not going to get anywhere near 110kw at any voltage, nor would 2 of them either.

I'm using a Chevy Volt battery assy. 
It's 3P 96S and 46Ah at 355v nominal, with the factory discharge setting at 6.7C. In the Cadillac ELR it appears to be ~10C discharge.

So to get my 110kw, I could redo the pack into:
4P 72S (259vdc / 424 amps) or 
5P 57S (205vdc / 536 amps) or
6P 48S (173vdc / 636 amps)

I have to repackage the battery anyhow.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

There are two options...there are the Siemens motors from the Azure dynamics auctions. There are quite a few of those, but most of them were bought by Jack Rickard who marked them way up. Sometimes they show up on Ebay or the classifieds for a more reasonable price. The other option is the "Ford Siemens" motor that is about the same size, but older. That one takes more creative work for the adapter, but several people have got it to work. Those aren't as common these days, but when they show up they are generally very cheap. With either one, the challenge is a controller, but there are some options there as well.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi McRat,

I'd examine the duty cycle you have set for the objective. LSR is about the only venue I can imagine requiring 60 seconds of peak power. You can certainly get the 110kW with many motor/controller combos, but holding it for 60 seconds is murder.

Siemens makes a great motor. But massive. And the control is expensive. 

major


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

Yeah, AutoX is point-n-stab. But there is little cool-down between WOT's, and you run 3 laps (4 if flagged) almost consecutively, so I figure to error on the safe side.

The more I'm looking at it, the worse the Insight is starting to look as an AutoX car.

LSD will be hard to find, wheel and tire choices are terrible, no aftermarket anything, aluminum body will make RWD conversion a dumb idea.

But I'm still going to get the Insight running on juice.

After driving my daughter's Volt, I'm now in love with electric traction. The Insight weighs 1/2 as much, so with the same 150HP, it should rip.

I really want a 2200lb Volt.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

McRat said:


> Yeah, AutoX is point-n-stab. But there is little cool-down between WOT's, and you run 3 laps (4 if flagged) almost consecutively, so I figure to error on the safe side.
> 
> The more I'm looking at it, the worse the Insight is starting to look as an AutoX car.
> 
> ...


LSR = Land Speed Racing = no turns 

If it is any type of circuit course, you'll not be at peak power the full lap. But demanding a motor that can do so ain't a bad idea, just very expensive.


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

My LSR career is over for now. 

It was a lot of fun, but had to pull the plug.

Sidebar - Did you see the Insight roll at El Mirage? 

This is probably going to be a Netgain 9 FWD "fun" car. I figure I can do everything under $10k.

How many volts will a Netgain 9 survive at?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

McRat said:


> How many volts will a Netgain 9 survive at?


I think the official number is 172. Tom Brunka from Helwig brushes kind of reluctantly said 192 with the proper brushes. I don't know if that also meant with their brush holders but it might.

I am running 173 just off the charge but with sag that is more like 130 at 1000 amps.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

McRat said:


> My LSR career is over for now.
> 
> It was a lot of fun, but had to pull the plug.
> 
> ...


If you had a leaf pack you could split it in half without repackaging for 180 volts which is usable but at the high end 

There are also a few controllers that will limit how much voltage your motor will see, sadly most don't go much over 200 volts.


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

The reason I didn't go with 1 Leaf battery is because 2 of them are used to supply 80kw. So you can't be sure that even 2 of them are safe at 110kw discharge, much less 1 of them.


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## gunnarhs (Apr 24, 2012)

McRat said:


> What kinds of options do I have if my battery is 355vdc nominal (96s LiPo)? Goal is 60 seconds at 110 kW.


Ok, I assume the budget is maximal 10.000 USD (?)

Look at this thread, I do not know if the offer is still valid
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84809&highlight=Siemens

Motors:
http://www.hec-drives.nl/Specs%20Siemens%201PV51XX.pdf

Controller (Higher Voltage than 400 V for more than 100 KW):
http://www.hec-drives.nl/Specs TI-4520.pdf (90 kW (?) max) 
or
http://www.hec-drives.nl/Specs TI-9030.pdf (over 100 kW max)

If you really have 350V+ and more than 5000 USD or motor
I would go for 
1PV5135-4WS18 (better when over 300V DC)
otherwise 
1PV5135-4WS14 (better when under 300V DC)

PS: I have not tested their controller (yet) but both motors can do 150 KW for 1 minute
(100 KW for at least 3 minutes).

But according to specs Power is at least 90 KW for 1 minute for smaller controller
P = U(rms) * I(rms), 
P(max) = (450V/1,4)*280A = 90 kW (for TI-4520)
P(max) = (820V/1,4)*350A = 205 kW (for TI-9030)

( Note: P (effective) = U(rms) * I(rms) * cos(Phi) )

U(rms) = U (dc) / 1,4 
cos(Phi) = 0,85

If you really need over 100 kW max it would be probably safest to have TI-9030 combined with 1PV5135-4WS18 
(combination at least 10.000 USD I would think)
Then you would need 400V DC to get 100 kW
P(max) = (400V/1,4)*350A = 100 kW (for 1 minute)

If you can settle with 70 kW max (50kW continuous) you can
keep your battery pack at 350V and use TI-4520 with 1PV5135-4WS14 
(cost about 7.000 USD)
P(max) = (350V/1,4)*280A = 70 kW (for 1 minute)
​


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## Nabla_Operator (Aug 5, 2011)

YASA 750  does the job for only 27 kilogram !

Works with Sevcon.

--


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## ruckus (Apr 15, 2009)

McRat said:


> What kinds of options do I have if my battery is 355vdc nominal (96s LiPo)? Goal is 60 seconds at 110 kW.


Here is an AZD Siemens doing 100 kw for 60 sec. at 360v with the Scott Drive 100:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F30AaYVSPck

For even more power consider the Scott Drive 200.

These also drive PMAC/BLDC motors if you want more torque and less rpm than the Siemens. In the video a BLDC motor is used in regen mode on the dyno.

Cheers


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