# Battery Life



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PTS said:


> Hi all practical genious,
> 
> I start to look into this Build Electric Car thingy the last couple days. One of the question I have in mind is the battery life. It would be very helpful for me if you can chip in your experience how long the battery will last. I always thought that if the battery go through the charge and discharge cycle many times then its life will be shorter. Discharge means (to me) it went bellow 10%. How long do your batteries last ?
> 
> ...


lots of variables... lots of answers are here on the forum, the FAQs, or come read thru my site (link at bottom of post).


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## PTS (Jun 6, 2011)

Dan,

Thanks for the link. So beside the enthusiasm, promoting green, and the joy of building something, it doesn't save much when it come down to money right. For example, say you spend 2k on 16 batteries ??, and drove for 7337 miles. For a bad millage sedan, say 20mpg, it would take 367 gal to go 7337 miles. At $4 bucks a gallon, it would cost $1467.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

PTS said:


> Dan,
> 
> Thanks for the link. So beside the enthusiasm, promoting green, and the joy of building something, it doesn't save much when it come down to money right. For example, say you spend 2k on 23 batteries, and drove for 7337 miles. For a bad millage sedan, say 20mpg, it would take 367 gal to go 7337 miles. At $4 bucks a gallon, it would cost $1467.


you don't save much money with a lead-acid build, you save a LOT with lithium. You gotta remember the lithium pack is probably going to last 75000 miles.... the electricity per mile is only about $.03 at today's residential rates. So, you spread the $5000 for batteries, and add the cost of electricity at your vehicles Whr/mile to get a cost per mile.

Then on the gasoline side... over the same 75000 miles, add the cost of at least 25 oil changes, a set of plugs, air and fuel filters, one serpintine belt and maybe a water pump PLUS the cost of gas with your vehicles milage. What's the cost per mile?

I am a strong proponent of installing PV as well. In my case, using more electricity (instead of gasoline) helps me pay off BOTH investments faster.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> you don't save much money with a lead-acid build, you save a LOT with lithium. You gotta remember the lithium pack is probably going to last 75000 miles.... the electricity per mile is only about $.03 at today's residential rates. So, you spread the $5000 for batteries, and add the cost of electricity at your vehicles Whr/mile to get a cost per mile.
> 
> Then on the gasoline side... over the same 75000 miles, add the cost of at least 25 oil changes, a set of plugs, air and fuel filters, one serpintine belt and maybe a water pump PLUS the cost of gas with your vehicles milage. What's the cost per mile?
> 
> I am a strong proponent of installing PV as well. In my case, using more electricity (instead of gasoline) helps me pay off BOTH investments faster.


How about if you only drive the EV 1000 miles a year? Then one would only get 10,000 miles out of the LIFE's. 

Here in Minnesota I can only use my EV 8 months out of the year, and I use an electric bike for a lot of my summer transportation. I think the winter cold helps preserve LA batteries. I know people here who have used the same LA batteries for 8 years, and I am hoping mine last that long (another 5 years). Then I am hoping for some better options when I go battery shopping. 

I am mostly interested in the LA carbons. Maybe with them, I can use my same charger, and lose 250#'s.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

gojo said:


> How about if you only drive the EV 1000 miles a year? Then one would only get 10,000 miles out of the LIFE's.


LiFePO4 (Thundersky/Winston/CALB) does not have a calender limit on life... just cycle life. If you only drive 1000 miles per year, the pack could outlive YOU.



gojo said:


> Here in Minnesota I can only use my EV 8 months out of the year, and I use an electric bike for a lot of my summer transportation. I think the winter cold helps preserve LA batteries.


quite the opposite, for LA or LiFePO4.
LiFePO4 batteries are happiest right around 75 deg F. Battery boxes *should* be insulated and have warmers in winter. There are lots of curves available showing you just how much temp affects batteries. Cold is NOT good, and if you persist in that believe, it explains why your batteries are not performing well.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> Cold is NOT good, and if you persist in that believe, it explains why your batteries are not performing well.


Absolutely. We had a cold snap here in houston a month ago; my floodies acted uncharged in the morning on the way to work (with temps 40-50 F) and had much more juice in them heading home (75-90 F).

Just because it is recommended to keep your AAs in the fridge for long life does not mean the same applies to EV batteries.


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

PTS said:


> Hi all practical genious,
> 
> I start to look into this Build Electric Car thingy the last couple days. One of the question I have in mind is the battery life. It would be very helpful for me if you can chip in your experience how long the battery will last. I always thought that if the battery go through the charge and discharge cycle many times then its life will be shorter. Discharge means (to me) it went bellow 10%. How long do your batteries last ?
> 
> ...


As I understand it, The lifetime of lithium batteries is degraded most by operating or storing them at temperatures greater than 40 degrees C. They can also be damaged by overcharging, but not so much by over-discharging so long as they are not driven to reverse polarity.
Capacity loss is related to the total number of Ahr of charge and discharge regardless of DOD or rate, as long as They are not abused..
If you are going to store them, they should be cool and at less than 1/2 state of charge.
Gerhard


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

GerhardRP said:


> Capacity loss is related to the total number of Ahr of charge and discharge regardless of DOD or rate, as long as They are not abused..


I almost agree completely. With the addition that moving amps in the middle of the SOC is less damaging than at both ends. It's not lineair, but curves at both ends. Staying away from both ends gives you the most ah during their life.

In my opinion a charger should have three ways of charging. Maximum, for full capacity, standard to 80% SOC, and minimal to 60% SOC. 

If you don't need the car for a while or you don't need more than 20% of the total capacity, use 'Minimal'. If you need maximum range, for once in a while, use 'Maximum'. And in all other situations: 'Standard'.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> LiFePO4 (Thundersky/Winston/CALB) does not have a calender limit on life... just cycle life. If you only drive 1000 miles per year, the pack could outlive YOU.
> 
> 
> quite the opposite, for LA or LiFePO4.
> LiFePO4 batteries are happiest right around 75 deg F. Battery boxes *should* be insulated and have warmers in winter. There are lots of curves available showing you just how much temp affects batteries. Cold is NOT good, and if you persist in that believe, it explains why your batteries are not performing well.


My reference to cold was in regards to LA batteries, and a benefit I suspect in preserving them in a Minnesota winter. 

I don't know what affect -20F to -35F cold would have on LIFE's, but that is how cold it gets in my barn were the car is being stored four months out of the year. I don't think these cold temps hurt LA, and in fact may slow the aging process.

My only experience with LIFE is my electric bikes, and I take the battery packs inside during the winter. I keep them charged, and I have only got two and a half years from them. I had two packs; one I barely used, but kept charged, and one I used regularly. The both lasted the same amount of time. I got them both from Ping. It could be the batteries, or it could be the charger, or it could be that LIFE batteries just have a limited shelf life.

I am only saying; I am skeptical from my experiences that LIFE packs will last 10 years. My packs went fast when they went. Both packs seemed to work fine and quit quickly and unexpectedly.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> LiFePO4 (Thundersky/Winston/CALB) does not have a calender limit on life... just cycle life. If you only drive 1000 miles per year, the pack could outlive YOU.
> 
> How do you prove number of cycles?
> 
> ...


I do not believe cold is good for LIFE batteries, and that is one of the reasons I am still leaning towards LA's. The benefit I wonder about is if cold helps preseve LA batteries during our Minnesota winters. The batteries hold their charges longer when it gets cold, so maybe the aging process is slowed down also. 

I suspect sitting out in 35 below zero temps could have some serious consequences for LIFE batteries. This is one of the reasons I am interested in the LA carbon batteries.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

How do you figure LA holds charge better when it's cold? Car batteries can literally FREEZE to death when it's too cold out and they're not fully charged.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> How do you figure LA holds charge better when it's cold? Car batteries can literally FREEZE to death when it's too cold out and they're not fully charged.


My theory goes back to my motorcycling days. If I kept my battery in the house for the winter it would run done faster then if I left it outside in the cold. 

And yes, I had to keep it charged so it wouldn't freeze outside, but I didn't have charge it as often. 

It makes me think the shelf life of LA's may be extended when they are stored at cold temperatures; just like things keep longer in the freezer.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

gojo said:


> It makes me think the shelf life of LA's may be extended when they are stored at cold temperatures; just like things keep longer in the freezer.



you're completely wrong GoJo, I don't know why you persist in this theory that has no basis in reality. Cold is not good for ANY chemistry battery I know of.

cold temps inhibit chemical reactions in lead-acid... you will have much reduced capacity and higher voltage sag in the cold. facts are facts.

The negative effect of cold on Li is a different mechanism as Li is more of a physical electron transfer, and not quite as bad, but still a negative effect at temps less than 65 deg F and worse the colder it gets. No matter what batteries you have, you *should* consider a warming system and insulated battery boxes if you vehicle is going to be sitting outside in sub-freezing temps.

You don't have to take MY word for it. Just get some of the capacity vs temp and/or voltage sag vs temp curves from manufactures.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> you're completely wrong GoJo, I don't know why you persist in this theory that has no basis in reality. Cold is not good for ANY chemistry battery I know of.
> 
> cold temps inhibit chemical reactions in lead-acid... you will have much reduced capacity and higher voltage sag in the cold. facts are facts.
> 
> ...


Ok. I am just trying to make clear what my personal theory was because it seemed like some of the responses didn't understand what I was trying to get across. I know I have little to base it on, and I am just trying to learn something. 

So do you suggest storing my lead acid batteries in the house during sub zero weather? 

I only use my car for 8 months out of the year, and for the last couple of winters, I have left the batteries out in the barn. I charge them on the coldest nights. They seem to still be working ok.

Thank you for your response.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

> So do you suggest storing my lead acid batteries in the house during sub zero weather?


By all means *store* the cells fully charged and in the cold. It slows all chemical reactions so it slows self discharge as well as the side reactions that cause aging. It increases internal resistance too, so if you are *using* the battery at high rates when cold it can be hard on the battery. When the battery warms it returns to normal.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

gojo said:


> So do you suggest storing my lead acid batteries in the house during sub zero weather?


no.... sitting in the cold won't 'hurt' them just by being cold. BUT they will have very much reduced capacity if you DO use them. Throwing a charge at lead-acid periodically won't hurt, and will help, even if they are cold.

BUT, you do NOT want to throw a charge at a pack of LiFePO4 if they are very cold (below freezing). The manufactures say this, and I'd believe it. I am not sure, but I think you run the risk of localized hot spots internally. The Li batteries would be perfectly happy sitting for 3 months in the cold, as long as you disconnect the pack from any possible load.



gojo said:


> I only use my car for 8 months out of the year, and for the last couple of winters, I have left the batteries out in the barn. I charge them on the coldest nights. They seem to still be working ok.
> Thank you for your response.


Why do you not use the car mid-winter?

If you DO want to use it, I'd suggest 'farnum heat pads' or a product from heatline.com under the batteries in an insulated box in the vehicle. Or.... get one of the fabric one-car 'garages' that is like a yurt and put the car in there with a space heater at night to keep the whole car above freezing.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> no.... sitting in the cold won't 'hurt' them just by being cold. BUT they will have very much reduced capacity if you DO use them. Throwing a charge at lead-acid periodically won't hurt, and will help, even if they are cold.
> 
> BUT, you do NOT want to throw a charge at a pack of LiFePO4 if they are very cold (below freezing). The manufactures say this, and I'd believe it. I am not sure, but I think you run the risk of localized hot spots internally. The Li batteries would be perfectly happy sitting for 3 months in the cold, as long as you disconnect the pack from any possible load.
> 
> ...


I kind of new to EV's, so I am keeping it simple for now. When it starts getting down below freezing I will start to lose range due to less efficient batteries, and using electric heaters. I have a gas power truck for the cold. 

Also, the conversion is a 1983 Mazda RX7, and it is in nice condition. Come winter they throw salt all over the roads, and it gives the cars cancer.

Thanks. For now I am pretty much pushing my EV to the limits. I have 10, 12 volt, 150 Ah Trojans. I have 11 miles to work, and then 11 home again. The RX7 is 2700#s. Do you think the heating pads would make it work?


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

EVfun said:


> By all means *store* the cells fully charged and in the cold. It slows all chemical reactions so it slows self discharge as well as the side reactions that cause aging. It increases internal resistance too, so if you are *using* the battery at high rates when cold it can be hard on the battery. When the battery warms it returns to normal.


Thank You. That is the point I am trying to make. I may have found something good about winter, in that it keeps my LA batteries from aging as fast when they are being stored in the cold. 

I think there is something to learned yet with Lithium and sub zero temps. 

I am interested in what happens with the LA carbon batteries. For someone who doesn't drive much, and lives in a cold climate they may be the answer.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

gojo said:


> When it starts getting down below freezing I will start to lose range due to less efficient batteries, and using electric heaters.
> 
> Also, the conversion is a 1983 Mazda RX7, and it is in nice condition. Come winter they throw salt all over the roads, and it gives the cars cancer.
> 
> Thanks. For now I am pretty much pushing my EV to the limits. I have 10, 12 volt, 150 Ah Trojans. I have 11 miles to work, and then 11 home again. The RX7 is 2700#s. Do you think the heating pads would make it work?


warming batteries doesn't take much juice, pads are only 15 watts under each battery, and the heatline you could customize at less than that... just enough to keep things warm. Lead loses close to 30% when it drops from 65 deg f to 32.... Li not so much, but some.

The heatline is interesting stuff because it can be plugged into AC wall power when available at night, and then if it is brutally cold and you have to leave behicle out in the day you can run a plug to power it fro the DC pack directly.

I am leaning toward the heatline, but not installed it yet as our winters are mild, and my commuter gets to spend nights in a garage that hangs around 50 degrees in winter.

either option would require a box or enclosed insulating foam shell to prevent heat loss for the winter at least....


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> you're completely wrong GoJo, I don't know why you persist in this theory that has no basis in reality. Cold is not good for ANY chemistry battery I know of.


Actually, he is correct. LA batteries (particularly VRLA) life is extended in temperatures below about 75 degrees F and shortened in temps above it. Performance is better above this threshold and worse below it....hence the impact on life. For VRLA, the impact of increased temps on life is actually quite dramatic. Obviously, I'm not talking about freezing them solid. These facts are pretty well documented if you go look for it. 
If you ever want to buy used batteries from a UPS application for solar, for example, the # 1 question you need to answer is if the room they were kept in was air conditioned or not.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Lithium batteries are usable down to about -80 or so, much like FLA.

The problem is a Lithium battery literally looses its phyical Ahr rating as temperature drops.

What this means is that fully charged Lithium batteries as they cool will become overcharged and suffer much the same damage as if you did overcharge them.

In other words you can generally only charge a lithium battery to 50% in cold weather and at that only VERY slowly.

The discharge end is no different than normal, just more sluggish but you can pull as much as you want cold (up to their rating), they just don't respond as well and obvously only hold half a charge.

Cheers
Ryan


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

rmay635703 said:


> The problem is a Lithium battery literally looses its phyical Ahr rating as temperature drops.
> 
> What this means is that fully charged Lithium batteries as they cool will become overcharged and suffer much the same damage as if you did overcharge them.
> 
> In other words you can generally only charge a lithium battery to 50% in cold weather and at that only VERY slowly.



wow, I am going to have to see references on this.... i don't see how a cell sitting at 'full' at room temp would become 'overfull' if cooled.

I DO see how a 'frozen' cell where the electrolyte is not able to transfer properly and rapidly should not have a charge applied t as to avoid hotspots and internal issues.


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## eva-michael (Apr 13, 2010)

For any LiFePO4 or any Lithium, 
One thing must notice: If you want your batteries cycle life as long as possible, dont just use small Ah batteries to save money and just discharge in a high C rate. Batteries are just like human, Being push too hard will let them want to died or died earlier. 
For discharge, keep C rate around 0.5C-2C in most of the time will help keep good cycle life. At most of the time, use battery capacity no more than 80%.(This is what we call 80% DOD)

For charge, if you don't hurry up to finish the charge: use a charger which will take 2-6hours to finish charge. You can have two charger if you also demand fast charger. One slow and one fast.
1C charge: 1 hours 80-90% capcity will not be problem but just do it when you request fast charge.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

Lead acid is a proven technology that has a proven life cycle where lithium is still theorized as having a long life span. I do not appose lithium batteries, however lead acid batteries give me the range that I need to go. 

20 6V FLA 232 ah batteries are giving my escort a 60 mile range (actually driven and tested) at 45 Mph. I do not require to use the freeway so I imagine it would be much less in those conditions. 

I can say that my car ran for 3 years on Trojan 105's. I charged my car when I needed to. 

My new set of batteries are interstate batteries and I was told by their lab scientists to charge often after the initial breaking in period. 

You can get into lead acid batteries quicker, cheaper and you will be purchasing them from and american company that you can return them to when they go bad.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

gsmith191145 said:


> Lead acid is a proven technology that has a proven life cycle where lithium is still theorized as having a long life span. I do not appose lithium batteries, however lead acid batteries give me the range that I need to go.
> 
> 20 6V FLA 232 ah batteries are giving my escort a 60 mile range (actually driven and tested) at 45 Mph. I do not require to use the freeway so I imagine it would be much less in those conditions.
> 
> ...


How many miles did you get out of your LA batteries in the 3 years?


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Battery Life 3 year range*

I know that I drove 37.5 miles a day for work. It works out to be just under 

30000 miles in three years. I did not factor in shopping and weekend activities. 

I can add 5000 miles a year in shopping and activities. 

Truth be told after the first month of driving my car I stopped thinking of it as a 

project and more as a regular vehicle. I charged it 5 days a week. I drove 

anywhere I wanted to without regards to distance. Everything I need is within

my cars driving radius. 

It costs me .01 cent per mile to charge my car. (actually less now, I have a new charger which is more efficient)

The batteries cost .06 cents per mile if changed every 3 years. 

My wifes 2002 V6 Mustang costs .18 cents per mile at 3.49 a gallon. 

I own a 1994 Ford Lightning. It gets .32 cents per mile at 3.49 a gallon. 

I set aside 20 dollars a week to save for new batteries. After 3 years of 

saving there is more than enough to cover a new pack and really who misses 

20 dollars out of their pay check.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

*Re: Battery Life 3 year range*

I assume you mean .01 dollars per mile etc?


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

*Re: Battery Life 3 year range*



gsmith191145 said:


> I know that I drove 37.5 miles a day for work. It works out to be just under
> 
> 30000 miles in three years. I did not factor in shopping and weekend activities.
> 
> ...


Interesting and practical.
I live in Minnesota, and I would only be using my EV about 8 months out of the year. Our winters include temperatures of 30 below zero, and there are heavy applications of salt on our highways, so my 83 RX7 spends winter in the barn.
During the summer I ride my bike a lot, so the most I would put on the EV would be maybe a couple of thousand miles in a year, so I am very concerned about the shelf life of my batteries. 
My hopes are with good care the LA batteries could last 10 years, and I could get 20,000 miles out of them, and that would come to about 10 cents a mile for my batteries. If I figure 3 cents for electricity, I come up with 13 cents a mile, which I am told, is about the cost of $3 gasoline. 
So with these figures, the most I could anticipate from the car is lower maintenance costs, and the good feeling of not being dependent on foreign oil to get around. 
I have a friend who got 8 years out of his LA’s, and he is known to drive them to DOD on occasion. I have a theory that cold storage slows the aging process of LA’s, so the 4 months of storing the batteries outside with just an occasional charge, may be added to the total shelf life of the batteries. 
I don’t know how 2000 miles a year would play out with lithium, or how 30 below zero would affect them, and I don’t want to be the sacrificial lamb in order to find out. I am very interested in the LA carbon technology.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: Battery Life 3 year range*



gsmith191145 said:


> I know that I drove 37.5 miles a day for work. It works out to be just under
> 30000 miles in three years. I did not factor in shopping and weekend activities.
> I can add 5000 miles a year in shopping and activities.


If you got 35,000 miles and close to 1000 charge cycles at 60% to 70% DOD daily.... you really had amazing performance from lead-acid. 

I got a little less than 8000 miles in about 500 cycles over about 20 months before my range dropped from 40 to 20 and would not get me through my usual 15 to 20 mile day without some serious sag the last couple miles.

getting more than 700 cycles at average of 60% DOD per cycle, and retaining more than half original capacity, is pretty unusual for lead-acid in EV use I think.


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

*Re: Battery Life 3 year range*



dtbaker said:


> If you got 35,000 miles and close to 1000 charge cycles at 60% to 70% DOD daily.... you really had amazing performance from lead-acid.
> 
> I got a little less than 8000 miles in about 500 cycles over about 20 months before my range dropped from 40 to 20 and would not get me through my usual 15 to 20 mile day without some serious sag the last couple miles.
> 
> getting more than 700 cycles at average of 60% DOD per cycle, and retaining more than half original capacity, is pretty unusual for lead-acid in EV use I think.


How about shelf life for LA's that aren't used a lot? It would take me about 5 years to put on 8000 miles, and it would cost me about $2000 to replace the batteries ( 10 Trojan 1275's ). 

If you paid similar to me for your pack, you are looking at 25cents per mile for the batteries if my math serves me. My hope, and the hope of everyone driving electric cars is there will be something soon to bring down the costs, and we will win. The LA carbons are interesting.


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## atzi (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: Battery Life 3 year range*



gsmith191145 said:


> It costs me .01 cent per mile to charge my car. (actually less now, I have a new charger which is more efficient)


How did you come up with the figure of 1¢ per mile? Do you have a electric meter on your charger, record your mileage and do the math? That would 100 watts a mile at 10¢ a killowatt.
I have not seen anyone doing that well. 3¢ a mile maybe.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

Its not magic, but if you pour out the electrolyte until you get as much of the garbage out of the batteries as possible, then replenish the acid and water. It is a matter of running out of components to make a chemical reaction. You will run out of sulfuric acid before you will run out of lead. 

No it was not merely luck that my batteries did so well. I tried this trick I did with car batteries and it worked. Even sometimes you can resurrect a battery from the dead with this trick. 

I also was told by one of interstates people that keeping the batteries charged will reduce the amount of sulfation. 

I suppose driving habits and components factor into battery life as well. 

I drive my car like an electric car. I do not try to accelerate like driving a 

IC 

I draw no more than 250 amp draw on the motor while accelerating. 

I changed out battery chargers as well. I picked up a charger that charges

my batteries slower so they do not over heat and cause the plates to warp. 

My father owned the same model car as mine and he figured out remedies to 

certain issues with the vehicle. 

One thing that I found very helpful is keeping the batteries at a proper

working temperature. For me that meant placing spacers between the 

batteries and blowing air through them while driving and charging. ( I live in 

Arizona) Also believe it or not, they have to be warm in the Arizona winter 

ha!

I could go on writing about things I have tried and the ones that worked. Have a good night.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

I pay .04 cents per kilowatt hour for power. I have a time of use plan. I charge on off peak times when the rates are .04 cents. Not sure if that helps your calculation. 

I had a charger that used 2.5kw per hour to charge my car. Charge the car ten 

hours or less. My car gets 60 miles to a charge. I do not drive 60 miles a day 

nor does my car require 10 hours to charge after my 37.5 mile commute. 


(2.5 kW X 10 Hours) / [ 1 kW per hour] (.04 per kW hour)/[60 mile range]= .0166666 infiniti symbol not available.

I got a new charger. That is why it is off. My original charger was a 1.5kW 

per hour. 2 cents is not bad either. plus i got three years out of my first set 

of batteries with a mid cycle electrolyte replacement. 

I just want to let everyone know what I have done and what has worked for

me and hopefully they can replicate it or have close to the same results. 

Enjoy.


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