# Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand:Crown
Model:cr-222
Volts:6
# of failures in first year:4
Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries:Yes
Notes: wondering if this was typical ... all were single dead cells

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/EV-battery-failure-rate----tp24382821p24382853.html
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

> EV battery failure rate?

Brand/Model: Exide EV-105 6v flooded golf cart battery, rated 105 min at 75a
# of failures in first year: 12 out of 12
Was this your first ever set of EV batteries? Yep!

I murdered them in about 6 months, using all the classical methods:
- not breaking them in gently when new
- drawing 500-1000 amp currents (melting off terminals in the process)
- seeing how far I could go on a charge (i.e. running them completely dead)
- crawling back home at 5 mph (because that's all the faster it would go)
- failing to promptly recharge them (leave them sitting dead several 
days at a time)
- connecting a "dumb" charger that never shut off (and forgetting to 
manually turn it off)
- forgetting to check or add water
- repeat until dead :-(

I learned. My second pack lasted about 2 years. The third lasted 5 
years, and the next one 7 years.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: East Penn Deka
Model: 8G31 (group 31 gel)
Volts: 12
# of failures in first year: 2
Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries: yes
Notes: I bought a set of 24 and two were low from day one. I kept topping off separately but they never kept up with the rest of the pack and got worse. Replaced under pro-rated warranty. Never abused, always monitored all 24 batts individually, used temp compensated programmable charger to manufacturers specs.


Gary Krysztopik
www.ZWheelz.com
www.aceaa.org
San Antonio, TX



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: Trojan
Model: T125 (230Ah)
Volts: 6
# of failures in first year: 0
Was this your first ever set of EV batteries: yes
Charger: Zivan NG3
Miles on pack: ~5000

I have 20 batteries for a 120V pack. I have run them low a few times.
I water them and check terminals every month. At a recent competition
on a closed 1 mile oval at a constant 35mph I ran 67 miles and still had
juice remaining. Great batteries.

Al (1981 VW Rabbit Pickup)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: Exide
Model: 235 X
Volts: 6
# of failures in first year: 9
Was this your first ever set of EV batteries: NO
Charger: Custom made by Cableform - variable voltage, constant ampere and 
regulated
Miles on pack: 0

These were 30 new batteries I bought back in 1985. The minute I press the 
accelerator, 9 of them blew up. I found that the manufacture dates on these 
9 batteries were about a year old which was setting on the shelf at the 
dealer. Another ten in the group was over 6 months old that came from a 
warehouse and 11 was a month old which came from the manufacture.

I had the dealer replace the whole set. This is the reason you must have a 
match and balance set. Be sure you get batteries with the same manufacture 
date that is not over 30 days old.

Also request to get a match set from the manufacture, which will be within 
0.001 volt of each other at 1.277 SG and the ampere is in one percent of 
each other. Many battery manufacturers do not do the match set any more, as 
where you have to request the dealer that has a battery analyzer do this for 
you.

My last 180 V pack of Trojans T-145's was purchase in April 4, 2002 and they 
are all running good. The manufacture date was only two weeks old and I did 
the battery checks with a analyzer my self before I took delivery. I had to 
check four pallet loads before I got a perfect match set.

Roland 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: Trojan	
Model: T-875
Volts: 8x15
# of failures in first year: 1
Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries: Yes
Notes: Blew off a battery post accelerating through an intersection, 
glided into a parking lot and jumped around dead battery. Back on the 
road in less than thirty minutes.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: Exide (from NAPA)
Model: GC2-H
Volts: 6V x 16
# of failures in first year: 1
Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries: Yes
Notes: First year ends in September. no failures. I keep battery draw
below 300 (I might have gone to 350A a couple times for a second or
two), typically up to 250A. They sag a lot, depending on temperature.
In the winter (~30F) I could barely get 200A at 84V. In the summer
(85+F), I get 250-300A at 88-90V.

Supposedly I should get something like 40 miles range with these
batteries. But the sag gets so bad that I've never gone more than 20
miles. It could be because I dont allow the voltage to go lower than
84V (1.75Vpc).

Some of my batteries are a little out of balance, something like +- 0.05V I=
IRC.

Water use has been quite low. They dont spit all over when charging
(am I doing it wrong?). I'm using a Russco charger at 10 battery amps.
I adjust the voltage for the temperature.

Would I buy them again? probably not. I want something with less sag,
less weight. I'll likely find 8V or 12V batteries next time.

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: Universal Battery	
Model: 12-260
Volts: 300: 25*2 strings
# of failures in first year: 2
Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries: No
Notes: One of the UB batteries literally failed open "out of the box" 
before the pack was lifted. The other (it was in the same box of two 
batteries) failed a week after the car went live while I was driving 
about 5 miles from the house.

Same symptom, battery just reads *open* with zero volts. No damage, no 
smoke, no nothing. I need to cut them open.

Replaced, and rest of pack is happy as a clam.

Chris

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

No batteries for me yet, empty shell of a car getting painted this week...

I'd like to chime in and say how interesting and potentially useful this particular thread is! The more responses there are, the better it gets. Maybe when it winds down, somebody can start an "EV motor failure rate" thread (and then one for controllers, then one for chargers, etc. etc.)

Best Regards,

- Gene


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

> 
> Brand: Johnson Controls
> Model: I don't recall (they were basic 105-minute golf car batteries)
> Volts: 48 (8ea * 6v)
> # of failures in first year: 0
> Was this your first ever set of EV batteries: Yes

These were in a 1980 Comuta-Car, with the original factory Vanguard charger, 
a pretty crude number that never really shut off. I read somewhere that I 
should just leave the car on charge when I wasn't using it, so I did. They 
sure used a lot of water! It wasn't long before odd looking stuff was 
floating in the electrolyte. 

The car had a contactor controller with no current limit and no ammeter. I 
estimate that my peak hill-climbing currents probably exceeded 1000 amps. 
IIRC, the C-car owner's manual said to climb hills with the pedal to the 
floor; I actually did for a while, until I learned better. The current was 
enough to vaporize motor brush pigtails a few times, though in all fairness 
that was a weak spot in that feeble little golf car motor. 

Later, I got a 350 amp transistor controller. I didn't burn up any more 
brush pigtails after that, but forever after, I had to have a running start 
to climb a hill of any substance. (But I digress.)

By the time the batteries were 18 months old, they still worked. I'd had no 
catastropic failures, but my range had fallen from 35 miles to about 20 
miles. Maybe I didn't charge them enough. ;-)

Almost forgot, I did have one near-failure. A battery terminal overheated 
thanks to a clamp I hadn't tightened properly. However, enough of the post 
survived that I was able to carry on with that battery. 

For my interconnects, I actually used those crummy discount store clamp-on 
replacement battery connectors. Between each pair I used two parallel 
lengths of bare #4 or so stranded copper electrical ground wire. I smeared 
them all over with Vaseline so they wouldn't corrode. Remarkably, they 
didn't fail.

I eventually learned. ;-)

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

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bmZvL2V2Cgo=


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

> 
> Brand:Trojan
> Model: T105
> Volts:96
> # of failures in first year: 0
# of failures in second year: 0
# of failures at end of third year: 2
> Was this your first ever set of EV batteries:yes
> Notes:
Two 20 mile trips daily. Charged after each.
12,000 miles.

John in Sylmar, CA
www.evalbum.com/1749



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*



> JS wrote:
> > Two 20 mile trips daily. Charged after each.
> > 12,000 miles.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

> Brand: US Battery
> Model: US 8VGC XC
> Volts: 8
> # of failures in first year: 1
> Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries: Yes
> Notes: Two months after purchasing 18 batteries, one of the cells on one of
> the batteries showed sign of failure (dropping SG with each charge cycle,
> although voltage was always OK). US Battery has exchanged the battery under
> warranty, at no cost to me (they've been great, thank you!). Their engineers
> inspected it and responded with this message: "A hard paste lump had
> punctured the separator and caused a short."


I believe that this is probably a rare manufacturing defect (and this is why
we have warranties) but the important thing about this experience is to
check the S.G. regularly. PakTrakr did not catch this problem, and probably
would not until it was too late. Across all 72 (18 * 4) cells, my S.G. was
1.313 +/- 0.005, except for this one cell which only got up to 1.145 fully
charged. The battery voltage was normal.

--Dave
http://www.evalbum.com/2500
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

Brand: Sam's Club
Model: GC-6
Volts: 6
# of failures in first year: 0
Miles:~5000
Was this your fist ever set of EV batteries: Yes

Home brew charger with shutoff timer


-----
2000 Ford Focus, 9" ADC, Zilla 1K, 18x Sam's Club 6V GC-2's 
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/EV-battery-failure-rate----tp24382821p24935992.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*



> Dave Hale wrote:
> >> Brand: US Battery
> >> Model: US 8VGC XC
> >> Volts: 8
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*



> Chuck Hursch <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > How did you initiate the feedback loop on the battery?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*

<snip> =

> What I'd really like to
> have is a gismo =

> that would have a computer feed off of it to send the
> values directly to =

> the computer. Almost since the beginning, I've used a
> voice-actuated =

> portable recorder to avoid having to set the hydrometer
> down to write =

> down values. It will take me about 45 minutes for 16
> 6V batteries to =

> get the initial data off all the cells into the recorder,
> then I upload =

> that soundtrack to the computer to build the
> spreadsheet.

I like your voice recorder idea; I think I will give it a try. I have been=
playing with trying to interface a web cam or cheap digital camera to my r=
efractometer; after a while of trying to stare into that little thing, it's=
hard for me to focus my eye. And both of mine (bought a second one on eba=
y, from the same place, after I couldn't find my first one. Both were abou=
t $40 with shipping. Both temp. corrected) seem to read differently depend=
ing on the "angle" I'm looking into it. They both read the same (to the ac=
curacy that I can read it). If I can get a good enough video image, I can =
write some software that will read it for me...

- Steven Ciciora



=


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] EV battery failure rate ??*



> Steven Ciciora wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> What I'd really like to
> >> have is a gismo
> ...


----------

