# [EVDL] Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
Lawrence Rhodes..

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected] cleannewworld
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:25 pm ((PST))

(A good argument for solid state lithium-ion batteries, and 100% pure
electric cars... Interesting this writer picked the xB as the least of all
evil... that's what I drive. But then, Toyota in its grand wisdom, stopped
making the version I own, transformed the new edition into a plain run of
the mill SUV. Shame on them! Rem)

Central Connecticut State University
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

Editorial & Commentary

March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so
environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show
the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate 'green
car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes
more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first
understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid
on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower,
1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine
that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000
revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it
is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where
the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you,
it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The
battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the
gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great
energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which
netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles
per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized
how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds
limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests
which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway
speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the
Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the
Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs
less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing
this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that
is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the
Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is
mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so
much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used
the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the
plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and
Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the
plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming
every environmentalist's nightmare.

"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the
soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace
energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a
British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to
make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous
plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery
in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce 'nickel
foam.' From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are
shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required
to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like
environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a
Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50
percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined
energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials
(metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected
lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven
over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on
the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer
will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing
it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy
one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion
only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still
obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price
of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a
non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If all be true then the only hope for man is to stop breeding and 
start walking. No clothing, No nothing but bare butt. No fires 
allowed nor are any tools of any kind. That would not be 
environmentally sound practice. Leave no dukie and don't leave any 
stone turned over. Turn it back if you move it.

: )

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here's the link to dust to dust:

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

I think once they start using the lithium in the hybrids, the arguments are
not as strong.

Lithium has a very low melting point, and so it should cost less energy to
produce. I hope the reliance on Nickel is just a transition phase they
needed to go through to get the technology out there.



> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > If all be true then the only hope for man is to stop breeding and
> > start walking. No clothing, No nothing but bare butt. No fires
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
> > Lawrence Rhodes..
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> "Lawrence Rhodes" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
> > Lawrence Rhodes..
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
> 
> I bought a Prius a few months ago. Since a 100k mile warranty is
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

NOPE for both questions. Same goes for iron, aluminum, and any metals 
mining or mineral mining. It just destroys the land. Now it can be 
covered and put back into use but that takes money and time as well.

Hybrids and Electrics are in reality only greener but not green.

Bottom line is: How Green Do You Want To Go?

: )


> Shawn Rutledge wrote:
> 
> > Aren't there any
> > environmentally friendly methods for nickel mining and refining yet?
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > NOPE for both questions. Same goes for iron, aluminum, and any metals
> > mining or mineral mining. It just destroys the land. Now it can be
> > covered and put back into use but that takes money and time as well.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I got numbers from somewhere that from the overall lifetime CO2 
emissions (not to mention even the other types of pollution) 
manufacturing is about 20-25%. That's for ICE.

Now say that Ni-MH is ditched and Lions put in service. 150 miles on 
batteries only. Less Nickel. Batter pure EV performance and efficiency.

Say I charge from wind power plant and have no CO2 on my electrons.

Now the manufacturing would be nearly 100% of overall CO2 emissions in 
my case.

Comparing to hummer in this case is a bit strange and it seems to me 
that the writer is seeking something to write with big letters on the cover.

-Jukka


Lawrence Rhodes kirjoitti:
> I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
> Lawrence Rhodes..
> 
> Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected] cleannewworld
> Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:25 pm ((PST))
> 
> (A good argument for solid state lithium-ion batteries, and 100% pure
> electric cars... Interesting this writer picked the xB as the least of all
> evil... that's what I drive. But then, Toyota in its grand wisdom, stopped
> making the version I own, transformed the new edition into a plain run of
> the mill SUV. Shame on them! Rem)
> 
> Central Connecticut State University
> http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188
> 
> Editorial & Commentary
> 
> March 7, 2007
> Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
> By Chris Demorro
> Staff Writer
> 
> The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so
> environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show
> the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate 'green
> car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes
> more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
> 
> Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first
> understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid
> on the market, the Toyota Prius.
> 
> The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower,
> 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine
> that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000
> revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it
> is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where
> the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you,
> it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The
> battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the
> gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great
> energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
> 
> You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which
> netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles
> per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized
> how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds
> limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests
> which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway
> speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the
> Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the
> Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs
> less then half what the Prius costs.
> 
> However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing
> this article. It gets much worse.
> 
> Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that
> is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the
> Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is
> mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so
> much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used
> the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the
> plant is devoid of any life for miles.
> 
> The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and
> Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the
> plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming
> every environmentalist's nightmare.
> 
> "The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the
> soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace
> energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a
> British-based newspaper.
> 
> All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to
> make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous
> plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery
> in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce 'nickel
> foam.' From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are
> shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required
> to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like
> environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
> 
> Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.
> 
> When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a
> Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50
> percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.
> 
> Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined
> energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials
> (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected
> lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven
> over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
> 
> The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on
> the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer
> will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing
> it.
> 
> So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy
> one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion
> only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still
> obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
> 
> One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price
> of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a
> non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It's a ruse to slam EV and Hybrid technology and to give the excuse 
to keep that gas guzzler of a beast. Anyone can make a claim but a 
claim is all it is. No proof and others will perpetuate it to make an 
excuse.


They are missing the point of EV or Hybrid. The point is to get off 
the oil. If it can be built to reduce the damaging effects on the 
environment then it is greener. It's just one green step forward.

We have solar on our home but the materials used to make that solar 
panel and electronic controls was built with non green technology. 
But the power we get is green power. Still some environmental damage 
was caused by making the panels. It is as with all products you use 
or buy. ALL products degrade the environment. Now is the time to 
reduce that and recycle as much as possible. It is the better thing 
to do.


Anyway this is not the proper forum for this rant.

: )

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's what I was thinking. Why do dust-to-dust hitpieces always assume that the entire car will just get dumped in a landfill and all new vehicles require virgin materials?

----- Original Message ----
I wonder how much recycled nickel Toyota uses in their batteries.


_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jukka J=E4rvinen wrote:
> 
> > Now say that Ni-MH is ditched and Lions put in service. 150 miles on =
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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