# [EVDL] Insulation for battery box



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How about spray foam? If you made some sort of form of thin sheet
plastic or thin sheet metal, then filled the void between the form and
the box with spray foam, it might work. Just trying to spray it onto
the outside of the box is likely to have bad results... in my
experience, it tends to drip off, overexpand, get on EVERYTHING else
near it, etc, unless it's a closed space to hold it. Even so it will
tend to ooze out the top or the filling holes wherever, but that's
easier to deal with. Drawback would be that you could not easily
remove it in case you needed to work on anything else -- you'd have to
cut it off, then reform it afterwards.

Z



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi gang,
> >
> > I've got a problem, and am looking for some ideas.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Two ideas; how about the blue pad material sold at sports stores as sleeping
pads; is there a paint on material (like the foam used to insulate cracks in
a building)?

Esko

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 3:44 PM
To: EV list
Subject: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box

Hi gang,

I've got a problem, and am looking for some ideas.

I bit the bullet and finally replaced the 10-year-old pack of twelve 12v 
batteries in my LeCar EV with fifteen 8v floodeds. This has meant 
crowding them tightly in the battery boxes, leaving no room for insulation.

But here in Minnesota, insulation is virtually mandatory to drive it in 
the winter. The wattage needed by a heater is excessive without 
insulation to help it.

The front box is 1/4" polyethylene; five sides and a lid. It sits in an 
angle iron rack. The rack stands on four legs a few inches high, so it 
*barely* clears the highest points of various mechanical bits underneath 
(top of the steering rack, transaxle, etc.). Likewise for the sides; 
they have a couple inches to spare, but *barely* clear a number of 
mechanical items. It don't think it's possible to squeeze more batteries 
under the hood of this car.

I'm trying to think of a way to insulate the outside of the polyethylene 
box, including the rack it is sitting on. The sides are smooth, but the 
insulation will have to fit around irregular mechanical parts like the 
brake master cylinder and steering column. Underneath the box is even 
worse; the angle iron rack creates a very irregular surface.

My first thought was fiberglass batts, perhaps inside plastic bags for 
protection. But Tim was worried that under the hood of a car, the 
fiberglass will absorb and trap water.

Next thought was to use closed cell polyethylene foam sheets. It won't 
absorb water, and is flexible so it could be conformed and trimmed to 
fit. I see it used for packaging, under floors, and for sill insulation 
(between the floor joists and cement foundation. But, I can't find 
anyone who has it in anything except little 1/8" or 3/16" thick by 6" 
wide rolls.

So, what other ideas do folks have? How would you do it?
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Next thought was to use closed cell polyethylene foam sheets. It won't
> > absorb water, and is flexible so it could be conformed and trimmed to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Lee,

Go to a place that does vinyl tops for vehicles and pick up that water proof 
foam padding that is 1/4 thick that has some type of plastic film on both 
sides. This stuff comes about 5 foot wide and any length you want.

I use this on my first EV that had aluminum boxes. I then went to a 
upholstery shop to get some exterior vinyl material that I cover the foam on 
both sides. I cut the vinyl larger then foam piece where it would overlap 
the foam sheets about 4 inches on all sides.

I use one of the 3-M spray adhesives on the vinyl lap edges. I pick up some 
button type metal snaps and place them on the lap edges. I made up 6 panels 
for each box. I had such a tight fit and had to bridge the battery box 
supports by cutting V or U sections out off the flaps that over lap.

Full glue the bottom panel on the bottom, because when I first left it un 
glue, I had condensation building up in the bottom panel. I then install a 
grommet in the center of the bottom panel to let the water out. I then 
latter glue the panel to the box.

The 1/4 of foam is only go give you 1.25 R factor where if you could use two 
layers which will give you 2.50 R Factor

You can calculated the heat loss by this formula:

Btu's = SF x u x TD

SF = the total exterior of the fox in square foot
u = u factor which is equal to 1/R-Factor
TD = Temperature Different between the inside of the battery box and
ambient temperature.



My total battery box area was about 50 square feet and using 1/2 of foam a 
2.5 R-factor at a 100 degree difference between 30 below to 70 degree above 
becomes:

Btu's 50 SF x 1/2.5 x 100 TD = 2000 Btu's loss at 30 below

If 1000 watts = 3412 Btus, then it will take 586 watts to maintain 70 
degrees inside the battery box setting outside at 30 below.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
To: "EV list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box


> Hi gang,
>
> I've got a problem, and am looking for some ideas.
>
> I bit the bullet and finally replaced the 10-year-old pack of twelve 12v
> batteries in my LeCar EV with fifteen 8v floodeds. This has meant
> crowding them tightly in the battery boxes, leaving no room for 
> insulation.
>
> But here in Minnesota, insulation is virtually mandatory to drive it in
> the winter. The wattage needed by a heater is excessive without
> insulation to help it.
>
> The front box is 1/4" polyethylene; five sides and a lid. It sits in an
> angle iron rack. The rack stands on four legs a few inches high, so it
> *barely* clears the highest points of various mechanical bits underneath
> (top of the steering rack, transaxle, etc.). Likewise for the sides;
> they have a couple inches to spare, but *barely* clear a number of
> mechanical items. It don't think it's possible to squeeze more batteries
> under the hood of this car.
>
> I'm trying to think of a way to insulate the outside of the polyethylene
> box, including the rack it is sitting on. The sides are smooth, but the
> insulation will have to fit around irregular mechanical parts like the
> brake master cylinder and steering column. Underneath the box is even
> worse; the angle iron rack creates a very irregular surface.
>
> My first thought was fiberglass batts, perhaps inside plastic bags for
> protection. But Tim was worried that under the hood of a car, the
> fiberglass will absorb and trap water.
>
> Next thought was to use closed cell polyethylene foam sheets. It won't
> absorb water, and is flexible so it could be conformed and trimmed to
> fit. I see it used for packaging, under floors, and for sill insulation
> (between the floor joists and cement foundation. But, I can't find
> anyone who has it in anything except little 1/8" or 3/16" thick by 6"
> wide rolls.
>
> So, what other ideas do folks have? How would you do it?
> -- 
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Zeke wrote

>How about spray foam? If you made some sort of form of thin sheet
>plastic or thin sheet metal, then filled the void between the form and
>the box with spray foam, it might work. Just trying to spray it onto
>the outside of the box is likely to have bad results... in my
>experience, it tends to drip off, overexpand, get on EVERYTHING else
>near it, etc, unless it's a closed space to hold it. Even so it will
>tend to ooze out the top or the filling holes wherever, but that's
>easier to deal with. Drawback would be that you could not easily
>remove it in case you needed to work on anything else -- you'd have to
>cut it off, then reform it afterwards.

Expanding on Zeke's idea (pun) - construct a cardboard protective structure 
around the 'exterior' of the vehicle components and lay some polyethylene 
film on top of it to make a mold/form. Make sure that the cardboard 
structure does not undercut the components. You can make it in parts, such 
as a stature is molded in various parts, so that you can remove it when 
needed. Take some expandable foam with good R value, such as urethane, and 
foam it in place between the Battery box sides and the cardboard mold with 
the polyethylene skin.

There are also soy based expanding foams with good R value from the 'green' 
building community that can be used instead of the urethane.

Rush
Tucson AZ


_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

you should try to find some 'thinsulate' cloth, made by 3M. It is a v good insulator and being a fibre wadding it will conform to some strange shapes or compress in tight spots. I have sourced some from a boat builders before - it's often used in the cabin walls.

Cheers
Dave




_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Hi gang,
>
> I've got a problem, and am looking for some ideas.
>
> I bit the bullet and finally replaced the 10-year-old pack of twelve
> 12v batteries in my LeCar EV with fifteen 8v floodeds. This has meant
> crowding them tightly in the battery boxes, leaving no room for
> insulation.
>
> But here in Minnesota, insulation is virtually mandatory to drive it
> in the winter. The wattage needed by a heater is excessive without
> insulation to help it.
>
> The front box is 1/4" polyethylene; five sides and a lid. It sits in
> an angle iron rack. The rack stands on four legs a few inches high, so
> it *barely* clears the highest points of various mechanical bits
> underneath (top of the steering rack, transaxle, etc.). Likewise for
> the sides; they have a couple inches to spare, but *barely* clear a
> number of mechanical items. It don't think it's possible to squeeze
> more batteries under the hood of this car.
>
> I'm trying to think of a way to insulate the outside of the
> polyethylene box, including the rack it is sitting on. The sides are
> smooth, but the insulation will have to fit around irregular
> mechanical parts like the brake master cylinder and steering column.
> Underneath the box is even worse; the angle iron rack creates a very
> irregular surface.
>
> My first thought was fiberglass batts, perhaps inside plastic bags for
> protection. But Tim was worried that under the hood of a car, the
> fiberglass will absorb and trap water.
>
> Next thought was to use closed cell polyethylene foam sheets. It won't
> absorb water, and is flexible so it could be conformed and trimmed to
> fit. I see it used for packaging, under floors, and for sill
> insulation (between the floor joists and cement foundation. But, I
> can't find anyone who has it in anything except little 1/8" or 3/16"
> thick by 6" wide rolls.
>
> So, what other ideas do folks have? How would you do it?
> -- 
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> -- 
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

I tried that expandable foam in a can and found it to be a messy hard to
control substance to work with. It made a great foam and the extended
nozzle allowed me to start injection at the bottom between 2 batteries
and work my way to the top. So If it would be possible to get a second
PP sheet spaced a 1/4 inch away then inject foam. It will probably work
as a glue between the two sheets.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Hi gang,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My batteries are also a tight fit; I used blue foam glued to the outside of some of the boxes with adequate relief to miss shocks, steering box, etc., then covered those with 1/4" louan plywood for some physical protection. Not as good as it could be but much better than nothing and serves well here in Maine.

Frank




________________________________
From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
To: EV list <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 6:43:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box

<So, what other ideas do folks have? How would you do it?>



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I tried that expandable foam in a can and found it to be a messy hard to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > Lee, there are a number of fair solutions to your box insulation problem. I
> > have tried unsuccessfully with several of them. Three worked well and were
> > easier than the others. In order of my success: First was Styrofoam panels in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

What about some type of spray on foam? You protect the things that can't=
be coated and spray away. They use it to insulate steel beams in buildi=
ngs and it is pretty tuff. Don't knw that would work or not but thought =
I would throw it out.

I appologize if this has already been discussed. Not having a lot of tim=
e to read mail, I delete a lot before actually reading from the list.

Scott




________________________________
From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
To: EV list <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 5:43:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box

Hi gang,

I've got a problem, and am looking for some ideas.

I bit the bullet and finally replaced the 10-year-old pack of twelve 12v =

batteries in my LeCar EV with fifteen 8v floodeds. This has meant =

crowding them tightly in the battery boxes, leaving no room for insulation.

But here in Minnesota, insulation is virtually mandatory to drive it in =

the winter. The wattage needed by a heater is excessive without =

insulation to help it.

The front box is 1/4" polyethylene; five sides and a lid. It sits in an =

angle iron rack. The rack stands on four legs a few inches high, so it =

*barely* clears the highest points of various mechanical bits underneath =

(top of the steering rack, transaxle, etc.). Likewise for the sides; =

they have a couple inches to spare, but *barely* clear a number of =

mechanical items. It don't think it's possible to squeeze more batteries =

under the hood of this car.

I'm trying to think of a way to insulate the outside of the polyethylene =

box, including the rack it is sitting on. The sides are smooth, but the =

insulation will have to fit around irregular mechanical parts like the =

brake master cylinder and steering column. Underneath the box is even =

worse; the angle iron rack creates a very irregular surface.

My first thought was fiberglass batts, perhaps inside plastic bags for =

protection. But Tim was worried that under the hood of a car, the =

fiberglass will absorb and trap water.

Next thought was to use closed cell polyethylene foam sheets. It won't =

absorb water, and is flexible so it could be conformed and trimmed to =

fit. I see it used for packaging, under floors, and for sill insulation =

(between the floor joists and cement foundation. But, I can't find =

anyone who has it in anything except little 1/8" or 3/16" thick by 6" =

wide rolls.

So, what other ideas do folks have? How would you do it?
-- =

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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=

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I see that everyone is thinking outside the box here, but you've all
missed the most obvious answer.

Lee, just move somewhere warm.



Mark

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mark Fowler wrote:
> > I see that everyone is thinking outside the box here, but you've all
> > missed the most obvious answer.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ha, ha. Hope I don't offend anyone, but my theory is that motivation 
is inversely proportional to temperature. I made that up back in 
college when the nice spring weather would come rolling in. Who wants 
to sit at a desk and work when it so nice outside. Then after college 
when I saw the pace that work would get done on projects down south, 
it confirmed that theory. The slowest workers I ever dealt with were 
in Saudi Arabia. I was there overseeing an installation, What should 
have taken one week took eight. But to be fair 115-120 deg heat is 
pretty stifling. The work days would be 6AM-10AM, break, 5PM-9PM for 
anyone that worked outside.



> Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Mark Fowler wrote:
> >> I see that everyone is thinking outside the box here, but you've all
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the suggestions, gang! This list is a great resource. I 
think I'll try a combination of these ideas.

Foam is an attractive option for insulating irregular surfaces. I agree 
that the instant foam cans are horribly messy. So, I ordered an 
"Instapak" kit from Sealed Air. This has the foam in plastic bags, with 
premeasured amounts of the foaming agents inside. Break the inner 
container, and it fills the bag with foam without getting it on 
anything. It's normally used for packaging delicate items for shipment.

With some difficulty, I located a roll of 1/4" polyethylene foam 
insulation about 3 feet wide. For my front box, I'm going to try making 
an outer box around the outside of battery box with this foam sheet, and 
then use the instapak bags to fill the irregular space in between them.

My rear box is a lot more straightforward. I can use the polyethylene 
foam as a liner for the box before putting the batteries in, and add 
more insulation on the outside.

My battery box heater are assembled on a sheet of aluminum that sits 
under the batteries. I disassembled a couple 60 watt battery heating 
blankets to get the roughly 16 foot long heating wire inside. I attached 
this wire to the aluminum sheet with double-sided carpet tape, spread 
roughly evenly over the surface. A sheet of aluminum foil is placed over 
the wire, to provide a safety ground. The AC line cord's ground wire is 
connected to the foil and aluminum sheet.

A piece of the 1/4" polyethylene foam will go in the bottom of the 
battery box first. The aluminum heating plate goes in next, with the 
wire side down. The foam acts as insulation, and prevents the battery 
weight from crushing the wire insulation. The aluminum plate provides a 
heat spreader and smooth surface to transfer heat to the batteries evenly.

The last issue is to arrange the ventilation. I have about 1" around the 
top edge for the air intake and exhaust holes. So, I'm looking for a 
small blower that has something close to a 1" hose for its inlet.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Lee, question because I don't remember your circumstances. Do you park the car in the garage at night? Do you run battery
heaters of any sorts?

One thing you should carefully consider is not to go overboard insulating them. In my Mitsubishi I built 1 full rectangle bed box
that housed all 16 Dekas (at the time). This box consists of 2" of EPS bead board in between inner and outer walls of 3/8" CDX. It
is like this on all sides. Except on the lid I can remove the insulation board.

I had done all the calcs on it to not allow more than a 10 degree drop with the truck parked outside at work for 10 hours in 0*F
temperatures. Well it worked fine in the winter, too fine actually. On heavy use days driving 15 miles would put 6*F to 8*F in the
batteries, charging them at night would out about 4*F to 6*F in them. But they would only lose 10* during the day on average 0*F
days. So sometimes when temps were above average I had to keep the box lid propped open a couple inches. That's not too much of a
problem and works fairly OK. 

The problem comes in the summer when the assumptions for my calculations were all wrong. With that much insulation I could not keep
the batteries cool enough, even driving around without the lid at all. I even reverted to parking outside at night (even though the
sun is still shining up here). I went back at one point to figure out what R-value I should drop to make it break even (for my
routine) in 0*F temps. It was something like I only needed 3/4" to 1" of the EPS beadboard (I get R=0.75 just from the plywood).
And even then the summer problem is still there. If I rebuild the box I will make it so I can either remove the insulation panels
in the summer, or somehow funnel air from under the cab into the battery box.

Just a thought before you foam it all up tight.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 8:12 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions, gang! This list is a great resource. I
> think I'll try a combination of these ideas.
> 
> Foam is an attractive option for insulating irregular surfaces. I agree
> that the instant foam cans are horribly messy. So, I ordered an
> "Instapak" kit from Sealed Air. This has the foam in plastic bags, with
> premeasured amounts of the foaming agents inside. Break the inner
> container, and it fills the bag with foam without getting it on
> anything. It's normally used for packaging delicate items for shipment.
> 
> With some difficulty, I located a roll of 1/4" polyethylene foam
> insulation about 3 feet wide. For my front box, I'm going to try making
> an outer box around the outside of battery box with this foam sheet, and
> then use the instapak bags to fill the irregular space in between them.
> 
> My rear box is a lot more straightforward. I can use the polyethylene
> foam as a liner for the box before putting the batteries in, and add
> more insulation on the outside.
> 
> My battery box heater are assembled on a sheet of aluminum that sits
> under the batteries. I disassembled a couple 60 watt battery heating
> blankets to get the roughly 16 foot long heating wire inside. I attached
> this wire to the aluminum sheet with double-sided carpet tape, spread
> roughly evenly over the surface. A sheet of aluminum foil is placed over
> the wire, to provide a safety ground. The AC line cord's ground wire is
> connected to the foil and aluminum sheet.
> 
> A piece of the 1/4" polyethylene foam will go in the bottom of the
> battery box first. The aluminum heating plate goes in next, with the
> wire side down. The foam acts as insulation, and prevents the battery
> weight from crushing the wire insulation. The aluminum plate provides a
> heat spreader and smooth surface to transfer heat to the batteries evenly.
> 
> The last issue is to arrange the ventilation. I have about 1" around the
> top edge for the air intake and exhaust holes. So, I'm looking for a
> small blower that has something close to a 1" hose for its inlet.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mike Willmon wrote:
> > Do you park the car in the garage at night?
> 
> It's usually in the garage, but not always. Of course, a garage in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mike Willmon wrote:
> > One thing you should carefully consider is not to go overboard insulating them. In my Mitsubishi I built 1 full rectangle bed box
> > that housed all 16 Dekas (at the time). This box consists of 2" of EPS bead board in between inner and outer walls of 3/8" CDX. It
> > is like this on all sides. Except on the lid I can remove the insulation board.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > I've had bad experiences with cold batteries in uninsulated boxes here
> > before. (Optimas in a Sparrow) Temps do get below freezing for weeks at
> > a time, and around freezing for several months.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello John,

I made my battery box modification back in 1985 by covering the entire bed 
with a layer of 1/2 foam on the sides and two layers of 1/2 foam on the 
bottom. One 1/2 layer in strips to fill the deep depression in the sheet 
metal and one 1/2 lay to smooth it.

I then completely cover the foam with a water proof marine carpet so as to 
protect the foam surface. The sides and bottom of the battery box was cover 
with 1/4 vinyl top foam padding and the cover with the marine carpet.

The top cover only had a layer of marine carpet on it. I do not heat the 
batteries now, which I did before 1996 when the EV was setting in a 
un-insulated garage which the battery had electric battery blankets made by 
Kats. It now sets in a garage that is insulated to 78 R-Factor walls, 135 
R-factor ceiling and a 19 R-Factor triple seal garage doors.

I keep the garage temperature at a range of 65 to 70 degree F. The lowest 
temperature the batteries I have every read was at 65 F when setting in the 
garage for 18 hours. Charging for about a hour at 30 amps, will raise the 
battery temperature from 65 to 77 F. Also driving for 1 mile at 200 amps 
will also raise the battery temperature from 65 to 77 F.

When the ambient temperature is at 70 F. and drive 5 miles at 200 amps, the 
battery temperature will get up to 90 F. Let it set for 2 hours and the 
battery temperature is back down to 77 F.

I ventilate the battery box, by having a 2 inch PVC pipe come straight up 
from the bottom of the bed and 90 degree in at the top of the batteries at 
one corner of the battery box. At the other corner, there is a 2 inch PVC 
pipe connection that connects to a PVC flexible pipe going to a 2 inch 
inline totally enclose acid proof fan and than out the bottom and out the 
back like a exhaust pipe.

The fan does not have to be running while the car is moving. The warm air 
above the battery, pulls the cooler air out the inlet pipe and out the 
exhaust pipe. Also if you face the exhaust output opening of the pipe 180 
degrees to the flow of the air when the EV is moving, this helps pull the 
warm air in.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box




> > John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > I've had bad experiences with cold batteries in uninsulated boxes here
> > > before. (Optimas in a Sparrow) Temps do get below freezing for weeks at
> > > a time, and around freezing for several months.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

At a very minimum with that much insulation I'm just recommending you design in a way to keep them cool in the summer. It may be
you have a toggle switch to manually turn on your vent fans if you need to. Or make it so you can lose the insulation in the
summer. Trying to maintain only a 20* differential between batteries and ambient will be hard with R12 insulation encompassing your
batteries.

I was running Deka 9A31's when I started. Now I have Crown CR-225 6V flooded cells. The flooded batteries are less efficient and
heat up more during charge and discharge.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:41 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] Insulation for battery box
> 


> > Mike Willmon wrote:
> > > One thing you should carefully consider is not to go overboard insulating them. In my Mitsubishi I built 1 full
> > rectangle bed box
> > > that housed all 16 Dekas (at the time). This box consists of 2" of EPS bead board in between inner and outer
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I mounted a computer slot fan on the outside of the box lining up the
hole in the fan with a hole in the box. Low current draw, low cost and
no sparks.



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > The last issue is to arrange the ventilation. I have about 1" around the
> > top edge for the air intake and exhaust holes. So, I'm looking for a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Removeable insulation also allows you to easily remove very swollen 
batteries. If you're worried about looks, wrap a 4" wide strip of 
cloth/nylon/whatever around the edges of the foam to hide the 
white/pink/blue.

- Adrian



> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> 
> 
> > So, what I may do is to keep the 1 1/2" foam in the bottom of the boxes,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> > How about duct insulation. Its used to insulate the outsides of HVAC =
> 
> > duct. It comes on rolls of various widths and thickneses. You cut it =
> ...


----------

