# headway 38120L/38120S/38120P are available



## lorraine (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi all,

Headway 38120L/38120S/38120P cells are all available now!!

The detailed specifications of these cells,please find in attachment.

Lorraine --Xinghai Energy
email: [email protected]
MSN: [email protected]


----------



## Little-Acorn (Jan 12, 2010)

Sorry for the (slight) change in subject. But are the 40160 (20Ah or 16Ah) cells available?

Thanks!


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

I talked to someone direct at headway on Monday. Currently the 12Ah and 16Ah are not in production. There was a small sample run. They plan on being in full production with in 1-2 months.....earlier if possible.


----------



## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Just a warn:

I Tested the 10 Ah and 12 Ah cells. The 12 Ah cells have lower C capabilities than the 10 Ah. The voltage of the 12 Ah cells drops below 2V at 9C.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

how'd you test that 9C discharge Crodriver? Got a graph?


----------



## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

frodus said:


> how'd you test that 9C discharge Crodriver? Got a graph?


I have tested it with a simple load and a cycle analyst. Today a friend of mine tested it with professional equipment and confirmed my results.

I have recorded the data from my test, I'll have to find it. Here is a graph of my friend:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15942

He also told me that he felt some vibration in the cell when discharged at high currents (?!).

We know that it has some kind of valve for high pressure protection inside. Maybe the vibration is related to the valve.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

good info, but realize, the 12 and 16Ah cells are not in full consumer production.... it was a test run. There were some issues with the 16Ah cells too.

I remember when there were issues with the 10Ah cells and it seems like they've gotten much better.


----------



## Little-Acorn (Jan 12, 2010)

frodus said:


> I talked to someone direct at headway on Monday. Currently the 12Ah and 16Ah are not in production. There was a small sample run. They plan on being in full production with in 1-2 months.....earlier if possible.


Thank you, frodus. Hopefully the 16Ah cells (are these 40160S cells?) will come out in time for your next boat shipment of other cells!


----------



## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

frodus said:


> I remember when there were issues with the 10Ah cells and it seems like they've gotten much better.


Yes, we can't wait to get confirmation on the new cells performance from someone incorporating them into something bigger then an e-bike...hint hint


----------



## Little-Acorn (Jan 12, 2010)

pgt400 said:


> Yes, we can't wait to get confirmation on the new cells performance from someone incorporating them into something bigger then an e-bike...hint hint


I'll settle for getting the word from someone who put them in an ebike.

In fact, I'll volunteer to be the one!


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

pgt400 said:


> Yes, we can't wait to get confirmation on the new cells performance from someone incorporating them into something bigger then an e-bike...hint hint


haha, i'm workin on it, workin on it. Had to bail out a customer that needed cells ASAP.... so my 200 38120S cells had to get sold  they're being replaced with the same 38120S cells.


----------



## Little-Acorn (Jan 12, 2010)

frodus said:


> haha, i'm workin on it, workin on it. Had to bail out a customer that needed cells ASAP.... so *my 200 cells had to get sold*  they're being replaced with the 10Ah cells.


Hey!

Travis, you wouldn't happen to have sixteen more 40160 cells sitting around after tests, would you?

Do you take CASH? 

I'd love to be able to get started sizing my battery boxes, mounts etc. 

KnowWhatAhMean?


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Little-Acorn said:


> Hey!
> 
> Travis, you wouldn't happen to have sixteen more 40160 cells sitting around after tests, would you?
> 
> ...


I never had any of the 40160.... this entire thread is about the 38120 cells....... I had 200 38120S cells and had to get rid of them....reread what I posted.

Headway made a very few 40160 cells, and those are gone. They won't be in production for another month or two.


----------



## Little-Acorn (Jan 12, 2010)

frodus said:


> I never had any of the 40160.... this entire thread is about the 38120 cells....... I had 200 38120S cells and had to get rid of them....reread what I posted.
> 
> Headway made a very few 40160 cells, and those are gone. They won't be in production for another month or two.


 OK, thanks. Just wanted to check and make sure.


----------



## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

Has anyone ever purchased cells from Lorraine? He states he's a Headway direct employee...have not seen any posts from him laterly?


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

pgt400 said:


> Has anyone ever purchased cells from Lorraine? He states he's a Headway direct employee...have not seen any posts from him laterly?


They all claim that. 

It is a China tradition for reselllers to pretend to western customers that they are the factory. It is not true for most of them.

Victoria is definitely not a Headway employee. We have confirmed that directly with the Headway factory that we purchase in bulk from.

The advantage with buying from EV Components (USA distributor) is that we do warranty the cells and will deal with the factory for you on the replacements. 

As an individual, it is very tough to deal with the factory for a warranty claim on a small order. Headway responds to us when we make a claim because they want me to purchase large qunatities again in the future.


----------



## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

Probably true that they both don't work for Headway directly, but also true is that Victoria or Lorraine can deliver by air in 6-7 days AND for less money then EVC with their typical 2-3 month delivery. Granted the difference in money is only ~$2-$3/cell, but the delivery difference is HUGE. Has EVC ever considered selling with an Air Shipment option? 




EVComponents said:


> They all claim that.
> 
> It is a China tradition for reselllers to pretend to western customers that they are the factory. It is not true for most of them.
> 
> ...


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

pgt400 said:


> Probably true that they both don't work for Headway directly, but also true is that Victoria or Lorraine can deliver by air in 6-7 days AND for less money then EVC with their typical 2-3 month delivery. Granted the difference in money is only ~$2-$3/cell, but the delivery difference is HUGE. Has EVC ever considered selling with an Air Shipment option?


6-7 days, but not legally! (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11211&hilit=shipping+lithium)
We don't want to risk shipping illegally via air to the US. We ship via sea freight and ground for all of our US orders. There is no UN testing done on these Headway cells, so for anything over 3 cells worth of lithium, guess what, you're the importer on record, so you could be liable for these fines. ANY Air distribution done to the US or inside the US, has to be documented as Hazmat class 9 and have the UN testing done and have a trained packer (specially trained to ship/package lithium). Be careful, If you're in the US, you could get a knock on your door and some heavy fines following. The laws went into effect late 2009/early 2010. I've called and verified with 3 different people. Victoria and Lorraine (and headway, and TS, and SE are untouchable, since their jurisdiction is US only.... but they could be on a watch list if discovered).


Also, there is no warranty support with Victoria or Lorraine, and it gets very expensive when shipping large quantities. EVC has had Headways in stock for over 4 months, typical delivery times under 2 weeks for the loose cells and Packs we have in stock. The leadtime for TS and SE cells is 2-3 months, not Headway.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11211&hilit=shipping+lithium


----------



## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

Not true, I know several people that have gotten warranty replacement from Victoria. Last month I contacted EVC for 16 Headway cells...no stock, so I got from another source (paid more). 

"Also, there is no warranty support with Victoria or Lorraine, and it gets very expensive when shipping large quantities. EVC has had Headways in stock for over 4 months, typical delivery times under 2 weeks for the loose cells and Packs we have in stock."


----------



## EVComponents (Apr 20, 2009)

frodus said:


> Also, there is no warranty support with Victoria or Lorraine, and it gets very expensive when shipping large quantities.
> 
> EVC has had Headways in stock for over 4 months, typical delivery times under 2 weeks for the loose cells and Packs we have in stock. The leadtime for TS and SE cells is 2-3 months, not Headway.


That is correct. We have several hundred of the Headway 38120S cells in stock (Seattle warehouse) ready for quick ground shipping in the USA.

I am now starting our next bulk import order with Headway. So hopefully we will be consistently keeping them in stock for quick shipping.


----------



## pgt400 (Jul 12, 2008)

Interesting read about the Hazmat class 9, seems to apply to air AND ground....how does EVC ship inside USA legally then?

"The DOT are serious about enforcing it. It seems to apply to road, air, and public waterway transportation in the US. All rechargeable lithium ion batteries with above 25g (that's grams) of lithium are classified this way."





frodus said:


> 6-7 days, but not legally! (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11211&hilit=shipping+lithium)
> We don't want to risk shipping illegally via air to the US. We ship via sea freight and ground for all of our US orders. There is no UN testing done on these Headway cells, so for anything over 3 cells worth of lithium, guess what, you're the importer on record, so you could be liable for these fines. ANY Air distribution done to the US or inside the US, has to be documented as Hazmat class 9 and have the UN testing done and have a trained packer (specially trained to ship/package lithium). Be careful, If you're in the US, you could get a knock on your door and some heavy fines following. The laws went into effect late 2009/early 2010. I've called and verified with 3 different people. Victoria and Lorraine (and headway, and TS, and SE are untouchable, since their jurisdiction is US only.... but they could be on a watch list if discovered).
> 
> 
> Also, there is no warranty support with Victoria or Lorraine, and it gets very expensive when shipping large quantities. EVC has had Headways in stock for over 4 months, typical delivery times under 2 weeks for the loose cells and Packs we have in stock. The leadtime for TS and SE cells is 2-3 months, not Headway.


----------



## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

pgt400 said:


> Interesting read about the Hazmat class 9, seems to apply to air AND ground....how does EVC ship inside USA legally then?
> 
> "The DOT are serious about enforcing it. It seems to apply to road, air, and public waterway transportation in the US. All rechargeable lithium ion batteries with above 25g (that's grams) of lithium are classified this way."


Read the whole thread, the UN testing applies to Air. Ground must be properly labeled (which we do) and packed properly. They have stricter guidelines for Air. They have different requirements for each type of shipping, at least thats what the NTSB told me.

We're playing the safe side until everything is figured out.


----------

