# It begins...



## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

Sorry guys... Forgot to include... 

I have driven a Tesla and I want my 944 to be competitive... 400 volt with ulra caps for acceleration and regen ... Think Tesla and no, I can't use their vendor...


You guys are the BEST!

Doug


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

A Warp motor (pick your poison),CALP Lithum cells, forget the ultra caps, and a Soliton1 controller, this would be a good start.

Regen is only good for braking, if thats what you desire, go with this setup....

http://hpevs.com/

Roy


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## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you Roy Von Rogers. The web site you recommended is predominately aimed at 25 mph vehicles. I'm looking for 80+. Maybe I have not learned anything on this site, but I don't think there is a motor/controller that will push a Porsche 944 over 80 MPH using a 48 volt system... Help me I'm missing something my friend...

Doug


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

shock said:


> Thank you Roy Von Rogers. The web site you recommended is predominately aimed at 25 mph vehicles. I'm looking for 80+. Maybe I have not learned anything on this site, but I don't think there is a motor/controller that will push a Porsche 944 over 80 MPH using a 48 volt system... Help me I'm missing something my friend...
> 
> Doug


you are not missing much, a 48 volt system in a Porsche 944 will not get you any where near the performance you are talking about


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

shock said:


> Thank you Roy Von Rogers. The web site you recommended is predominately aimed at 25 mph vehicles. I'm looking for 80+. Maybe I have not learned anything on this site, but I don't think there is a motor/controller that will push a Porsche 944 over 80 MPH using a 48 volt system... Help me I'm missing something my friend...
> 
> Doug


The systems on there are all good up to about 100V, the AC50 goes up to 130V peak.
http://hpevs.com/drive-systems/ac-50

but I'd get something bigger with higher voltage and get a nice AC drive system elsewhere, along with some high discharge, high capacity batteries. Forget supercaps, they're pointless if you use some decent batteries.

look around here:
It's a buddy of mine that converted his BMW.... he knows where to get the siemens motors, as well as the new one he put in that is based on a Remy motor. Controllers are all Rinehart Motion. Batteries are A123 for his main pack and Headway for his range extender.
http://www.evdrive.com/bmw_project/acmotor.html
check down the page at the July 2011 update to get an idea the size of the Remy motor. 

Also check here:
http://www.metricmind.com/motor.htm

Let me know if you want some help... I work very closely with him. My company is helping him with integration of some of the components.


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## x88x (Aug 19, 2011)

Out of curiosity, is there any reason you're set on an AC drive? From the research I've done, for the price point you're looking at, I would think series-wound DC (ie, NetGain, Kostov, etc) would be a better choice.


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## ishiwgao (May 5, 2011)

frodus said:


> look around here:
> It's a buddy of mine that converted his BMW.... he knows where to get the siemens motors, as well as the new one he put in that is based on a Remy motor. Controllers are all Rinehart Motion. Batteries are A123 for his main pack and Headway for his range extender.
> http://www.evdrive.com/bmw_project/acmotor.html
> check down the page at the July 2011 update to get an idea the size of the Remy motor.


I cant see any post that has 2011 in it, let alone picture about the remy motor?


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## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

x88x said:


> Out of curiosity, is there any reason you're set on an AC drive? From the research I've done, for the price point you're looking at, I would think series-wound DC (ie, NetGain, Kostov, etc) would be a better choice.


I know that most DIYers have done DC in the past, but I believe AC is the future. I also want to deploy some creative regen concepts that I can only do with AC. I know AC is much more expensive but thats OK. There are endless discussions on these boards on the AC/DC debate so I don't want to derail my thread here...

Cheers!


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

ishiwgao said:


> I cant see any post that has 2011 in it, let alone picture about the remy motor?


oops, sorry

http://www.evdrive.com/index.html


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

shock said:


> I know that most DIYers have done DC in the past, but I believe AC is the future. I also want to deploy some creative regen concepts that I can only do with AC. I know AC is much more expensive but thats OK. There are endless discussions on these boards on the AC/DC debate so I don't want to derail my thread here...
> 
> Cheers!


If this is your first build, forget "creative solutions". Build a basic dc/ac vehicle with stuff thats known to work, and have fun doing it.

Roy


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## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> If this is your first build, forget "creative solutions". Build a basic dc/ac vehicle with stuff thats known to work, and have fun doing it.
> 
> Roy


Reasonable advice. That being said - anyone have a firm opinion for ac motor/controller and batteries that are best for my requirements? (listed at start of thread)


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

shock said:


> Reasonable advice. That being said - anyone have a firm opinion for ac motor/controller and batteries that are best for my requirements? (listed at start of thread)


Based on your desired performance, I would say skip AC and advance directly to DC. There are few high power AC options and most are quite costly. There is also little experience with those options here (like surplus Siemens hardware.) 

DC still rules the track because it still gets you a lot more horsepower for the dollars. About the only AC system with the kind of installed base needed for user support would be the Curtis offerings. They won't have the power you want since they peak out at around 80 horsepower. 

In the land of DC I'd say one series wound 9 or 11 inch motor. Shove power at it with one Zilla Z2k-HV, and back it up with a nice pack of 180 amp hour CALB or Winston cells, about 80 of them. That will put about 240 horsepower on the road when your right foot develops the itch. Since electric horsepower has a flatter power band than most gas engines if will feel like more power still (more average power under the curve compared to a 240 HP gas engine.)


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## shock (Jul 16, 2011)

EVfun said:


> Based on your desired performance, I would say skip AC and advance directly to DC. There are few high power AC options and most are quite costly. There is also little experience with those options here (like surplus Siemens hardware.)
> 
> DC still rules the track because it still gets you a lot more horsepower for the dollars. About the only AC system with the kind of installed base needed for user support would be the Curtis offerings. They won't have the power you want since they peak out at around 80 horsepower.
> 
> In the land of DC I'd say one series wound 9 or 11 inch motor. Shove power at it with one Zilla Z2k-HV, and back it up with a nice pack of 180 amp hour CALB or Winston cells, about 80 of them. That will put about 240 horsepower on the road when your right foot develops the itch. Since electric horsepower has a flatter power band than most gas engines if will feel like more power still (more average power under the curve compared to a 240 HP gas engine.)


That's a powerful argument on AC versus DC - I have indeed been having difficulty finding the HP I wanted in AC, and I am really counting on the experienced support of this forum... Maybe I'll have to give up on braking regen.

Say I do go DC... I don't see many DIY'ers getting clean freeway speeds over long distances. Not that it's impossible, but these forums are loaded with "I stay off the freeways", or "someday I'm gonna do this or that to get the range I need". With your recommendation above do you think I can get 80 miles per charge at 80 miles per hour in a Porsche 944? (Not questioning you, just want to be careful we are talking about the same specs. I want to do this right the first time.)

Thank you so much for the reply!

Doug


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

shock said:


> do you think I can get 80 miles per charge at 80 miles per hour in a Porsche 944?


well, considering the HP you need to keep the vehicle rolling at 80, plus a little extra for passing and hills.... a Warp 9 at 156v would probably be 'enough', but if you have room for 11" it would be easier. Trouble with extended high output is you are going to want to be careful that motor has cool air pushed thru it with some good ductwork for intake and exiting the engine bay, and probably want fluid-cooled controller like Soliton Jr or Soliton1. For 80 miles at 80mph, you probably would be very safe with 200ah cells, and MAY get by with 180ah cells.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

That 80 miles at 80 mph part... I would scrap the idea of using a 9 inch motor and step up to an 11 inch motor that can take fairly high voltage. The motors continuous rating will be a design point. You will want to keep the tranny so you can keep the rpm up on the freeway and grab the next taller gear (yup, you read that right) when you want to pass someone. 

I'm pretty sure the capacity is there even though your desired speed is high, what is the cd and frontal area? 80, 180 amp hour CALB or Winston cells would be way over a 100 mile pack at "normal" (60 mph) freeway speeds. Most EVers (myself included) are urban dwellers so we don't get to open it up very often or for very long.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

There's plenty of BLDC stuff out there too, so consider that too.

Not everything is AC Induction.


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## x88x (Aug 19, 2011)

frodus said:


> There's plenty of BLDC stuff out there too, so consider that too.
> 
> Not everything is AC Induction.


How many BLDC motors are there on the market that could put out the kind of power he's looking for though? I know of one.
http://currentevtech.com/Drive-Syst...ers/120KW-BLDC-Motor-and-Controller-p168.html
_Maybe_ two (if you push it).
http://currentevtech.com/Drive-Syst...lers/80KW-BLDC-Motor-and-Controller-p167.html

There's one more I've seen info about that's around the 80-100kW range, but it's still in the development stages....can't find the link atm; I'll add it if I find it.

There's lots of awesome BLDC stuff for small vehicles, and I would love to see more big BLDC motors on the market for large, powerful, vehicles, but as far as I've seen, they are very few and far between...and ones you can actually buy are even rarer (as with everything in the EV world). I'm guessing one of the limiting factors is the cost of the high power permanent magnets needed by such high power BLDC motors.


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