# Cafe Electric shutting down Zilla. Alternatives?



## Muju (Jan 25, 2008)

Well just as I was about to place my order with them, I found this.

http://www.cafeelectricpress.com/blog/?cat=2

Even if I could get an order in under the deadline, I am not sure I want to order a controller from a company going out of business. So until another company picks up the license, I am out of luck.

So, what controllers out there have similar reliability to the Zilla? I know everyone goes with the Curtis, but to be honest, the start up tone is kind of a deal breaker for me.

So here is what I am looking for. 

1) Something that can easily handle 144v so if I want to go higher in the future I can. I liked the Zilla 1k because it was overkill for my spitfire so I knew it would last.
2) Something reliable from a company I know will still be in business if I ever need to go back for questions.
3) Something without the Curtis squeal.

Anyone have any sugestions?


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## Jacob Riskin (Jun 10, 2008)

This is very sad, I wish Otmar all the best for his health, and hope he's okay.

It's also a pretty big blow to the community but I'm sure someone will pick up the pieces.

Good luck Otmar!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

For the record, that "start up tone" is a switching of the pulse width frequency from 15kHz (still audible to some, myself included) to 1.5kHz, which makes slow speed much easier to control.

If you can't hear a tube-type TV "whine" when it's on, you won't hear the higher frequency operation either, and the 1.5kHz big that the curtis uses only lasts for a short period, shorter if you hammer down.

The Zilla uses a 15.1kHz frequency, without a lower frequency for slow speed.

I believe Alltrax uses a 16kHz frequency, Kelly uses 15 I think... Can't remember what the others use.

Zilla is more or less in a world of its own when it comes to power delivery. I don't know if Auburn still makes controllers, or ... hmm, name escapes me... 

Kelly and Alltrax have some controllers that put more amps out than the Curtis line-up, but those guys don't have the same sort of reputation as Curtis. I've read about people blowing one of those controllers in weeks, and read of people blowing a Curtis after 10 years.

I don't care one way or another if I have the 1.5kHz tone from a Curtis, it helps grab people's attention if they don't hear an engine and you're starting to move. Without it, I think I'd have to put a soft-note low dB train whistle like the commuter trains around here use, and that would be more annoying to me since it's not automatic.


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## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

Logisystems most recent redesign has IGBT based controllers with models up to 156V at 550A, 750A, and 1000A, with some models above 1000A. They are air cooled with integrated heat sinks and mounts for cooling fans. They are another alternative to the Curtis.

The Zilla is not necessarily dead, they are just looking to license the manufacturing operation to another outfit.


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## Muju (Jan 25, 2008)

I am hoping that someone will pick up the license soon, but who knows.


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## kixGas (May 2, 2008)

Zilla definitely seems to be the way to go. I really hope someone picks them up by the time I am ready to get off my butt and build my EV.


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## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

Before you make up your mind, have you heard the Curtis "tone" for yourself? I've been driving mine now for 6 months and dont even notice the sound...


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Great point, Twilly...

And "I heard it on a video" doesn't count... for some reason, video cameras are set up to pick up spoken words very clearly even from across the room. 1.5kHz is within the normal bandwidth for human speech, so cameras tend to "intensify" the sound a little.

Then again, I have severe hearing loss right around 1.5kHz, so my thoughts on hearing the "tone" aren't exactly an objective reference.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

How do the Solectria controllers do in the hiss category? I have tinnitus that has rendered high frequencies physically painful for me. 15khz flyback transformers on TVs are a serious annoyance.


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## Muju (Jan 25, 2008)

I have not heard a curtis in person, so the videos may be making it worse then it is, but I have very sensitive hearing. I do here TVs when turned on and things like the mosquito ring tone are painful to me.


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## supercivic (Jul 23, 2008)

I am converting a 98 civic and was planning on using a Zilla 1000 amp controller and a Warp 9" motor to the stock five speed. I am in the planning stages and I am not ready to purchase the controller just yet. Is there any comparable systems out there that can deliver the same performance as the Zilla? I started looking at some AC systems but I find it hard to compare the two.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

comparible? not yet.

there are some other possible solutions

Our company (synkromotive) Is preparing a controller (in my motorcycle) for use in car conversions. 156V 600+Amps USB programmable, contactor controllers like the zilla, diagnostics, logging.

Logisystems also has a high power one (they claim) but I have not seen power vs time vs temperature data. I wonder if they can do 1000A with convection cooling on a controller as small as they've got. I wonder how they get that 1000A number. I talked to Jim at Logisystems and he didn't give me much to go by.

Kelly also has one, mixed results from people


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## john818 (Aug 1, 2008)

Sorry to hear Otmar isn't well. I think coming across the website on his 914 is what originally sparked my interest in EVs 2 years ago or so.

We all know Zilla controllers are great, but what does everyone think is great about them? Is it the AMP rating, programability, or other features? What should we look for in a Zilla alternative?

I'm tempted to get in the Zilla queue despite the chance they'll close. From what I've read, Otmar promises to honor warrantees, and if someone picks up the company, support should continue beyond then. I'll have to think about it.


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