# Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

On a leval highway @ 60mph it is about 250-275 although in my average driving
around Olympia which has a lot of hills it is more like 350-375

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com



Dave,

What is your RAV4's wh/mi @ 60mph on level highway?

Mark




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Powered By DC wrote:
> >
> > On a leval highway @ 60mph it is about 250-275 although in my average driving
> > around Olympia which has a lot of hills it is more like 350-375
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 11:09:06AM -0800, Powered By DC wrote:
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Dave,
Did the batteries fit in the same place as the RAV4 EV, or did you 
have to put them somewhere else?

Thanks.

Bill

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

We are using 48 of the 200 AH cells in this particular Rav4 and the evision
does say that we are using about 2.24ah per mile for my usual "spirited"
driving where I routinely drive 65-70 mph. However I am not sure that the
Evision is completly accurate because the data from our controller as well
as the amount of energy we are putting back into the pack durring charging
does not match up. Quite often I have to reset the Evision to full after
charging. As an example when I charged it to full last night the evision
reads 86% charged and I had to reset it to full. We have only taken it
below 20% SOC a couple times durring our testing. The Rav actually seems to
be more efficient at 65mph than it is at 55-60mph. Both our motor and
controller seem to favor the higher RPM's. We have spent a lot of time
trying to make it more efficient, trying different combinations of
components and various cooling methods. We currently have 8 different fans
cooling the motor, controller, and various other components and I believe it
is about as efficient as a DC system can be. Our range is a solid 80 +
miles just about any way you drive it and if watch how hard you accelerate,
coast when possible, anticipate stops, ect. its about 100 miles. I would
think that your vehicle should get a 120-130 mile range based on what we
have seen. Our last Rav had 52 of the 260AH cells and I personally drove it
142 miles and had range left. Did you put LLR tires on it yet ? Alignment
? Do you have a fan on the motor ? All those things can make a difference
in the range. 

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com


Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
> 
>


> Powered By DC wrote:
> >>
> >> On a leval highway @ 60mph it is about 250-275 although in my average
> >> driving
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

We put them all under the vehicle similar to the factory Rav4 EV

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com




> Bill Dennis-2 wrote:
> >
> > Dave,
> > Did the batteries fit in the same place as the RAV4 EV, or did you
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> 
> > How are you balancing those TS LFP 260s?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Powered By DC wrote:
> >
> > does not match up. Quite often I have to reset the Evision to full after
> > charging. As an example when I charged it to full last night the evision
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Hello, I'm a newbie that has been lurking for some time.

Am interested in someday doing a conversion on our 1st gen CR-V we've 
owned since new. It's still getting around fine with the OEM drivetrain 
but eventually I'd like to go electric.

Can you point me towards a webpage detailing these LifePo batteries? 
Also would like to know more about the motor controller used to get 
reasonable performance for 100 miles (my goal).

Chris in TN

Willie McKemie wrote:
>


> Powered By DC wrote:
> >
> >> does not match up. Quite often I have to reset the Evision to full after
> >> charging. As an example when I charged it to full last night the evision
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Busbodger wrote:
> > Hello, I'm a newbie that has been lurking for some time.
> >
> > Am interested in someday doing a conversion on our 1st gen CR-V we've
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> On 7 Mar 2009 at 8:53, Busbodger wrote:
> 
> > Hello, I'm a newbie ... interested in someday doing a conversion ...
> > Can you point me towards a webpage detailing these LifePo batteries?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Busbodger wrote:
> 
> > Hello, I'm a newbie that has been lurking for some time.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Your average driving around Olympia?! I'm from olympia! You should sign up
at the Lacey Alternative Energy Fair at the Beginning of May! I'll be there
with my electric superbeetle.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

How are you determining what a full charge is? Not just by pack 
voltage, I hope.

-We have a pretty good grasp on how much energy we are using through our
data loging. I think we are going to try to put shielded wires to the
evision to see if it helps. 


This is a new car; it seems wasteful to put new tires on it. I would 
want to put at least 30K miles on the ones I have. Then, I'll be 
looking for LLR. What are you using? I'm running 40psi and thinking 
of going to 45. I should check the toe-in. Do you run zero toe-in? 
Without wandering? I wasn't aware that motor cooling was a factor in 
efficiency.

-We are using continental cross contact tires at the suggestion of some
Factory Rav4 EV owners they are great for the wet weather we have up here. 
We set our alignment up like the factory rav as well it is not quite zero
tow in. From the testing we have done I believe motor and controller
cooling makes a difference in efficiency and an even bigger difference in
performance.

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

What controller is on the RAV4? 48*3.5 would be ~170VDC fully charged,
and I remember most of the available DC controllers hating anything
above 150V...

Do you do anything special to keep the controller happy after a full
charge?

Thanks,
Thor Johnson


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Powered By DC
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 4:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4


We are using 48 of the 200 AH cells in this particular Rav4 and the
evision
does say that we are using about 2.24ah per mile for my usual "spirited"
driving where I routinely drive 65-70 mph. However I am not sure that
the
Evision is completly accurate because the data from our controller as
well
as the amount of energy we are putting back into the pack durring
charging
does not match up. Quite often I have to reset the Evision to full
after
charging. As an example when I charged it to full last night the evision
reads 86% charged and I had to reset it to full. We have only taken it
below 20% SOC a couple times durring our testing. The Rav actually
seems to
be more efficient at 65mph than it is at 55-60mph. Both our motor and
controller seem to favor the higher RPM's. We have spent a lot of time
trying to make it more efficient, trying different combinations of
components and various cooling methods. We currently have 8 different
fans
cooling the motor, controller, and various other components and I
believe it
is about as efficient as a DC system can be. Our range is a solid 80 +
miles just about any way you drive it and if watch how hard you
accelerate,
coast when possible, anticipate stops, ect. its about 100 miles. I
would
think that your vehicle should get a 120-130 mile range based on what we
have seen. Our last Rav had 52 of the 260AH cells and I personally
drove it
142 miles and had range left. Did you put LLR tires on it yet ?
Alignment
? Do you have a fan on the motor ? All those things can make a
difference
in the range. 

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com


Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
> 
>


> Powered By DC wrote:
> >>
> >> On a leval highway @ 60mph it is about 250-275 although in my average
> >> driving
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Sounds like a DCP Raptor can handle that
or a Zilla of course. 


Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Thor Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 6:54 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4

What controller is on the RAV4? 48*3.5 would be ~170VDC fully charged,
and I remember most of the available DC controllers hating anything
above 150V...

Do you do anything special to keep the controller happy after a full
charge?

Thanks,
Thor Johnson


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Powered By DC
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 4:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4


We are using 48 of the 200 AH cells in this particular Rav4 and the
evision
does say that we are using about 2.24ah per mile for my usual "spirited"
driving where I routinely drive 65-70 mph. However I am not sure that
the
Evision is completly accurate because the data from our controller as
well
as the amount of energy we are putting back into the pack durring
charging
does not match up. Quite often I have to reset the Evision to full
after
charging. As an example when I charged it to full last night the evision
reads 86% charged and I had to reset it to full. We have only taken it
below 20% SOC a couple times durring our testing. The Rav actually
seems to
be more efficient at 65mph than it is at 55-60mph. Both our motor and
controller seem to favor the higher RPM's. We have spent a lot of time
trying to make it more efficient, trying different combinations of
components and various cooling methods. We currently have 8 different
fans
cooling the motor, controller, and various other components and I
believe it
is about as efficient as a DC system can be. Our range is a solid 80 +
miles just about any way you drive it and if watch how hard you
accelerate,
coast when possible, anticipate stops, ect. its about 100 miles. I
would
think that your vehicle should get a 120-130 mile range based on what we
have seen. Our last Rav had 52 of the 260AH cells and I personally
drove it
142 miles and had range left. Did you put LLR tires on it yet ?
Alignment
? Do you have a fan on the motor ? All those things can make a
difference
in the range. 

Dave Kois
Powered By DC, LLC
www.poweredbydc.com


Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
> 
>


> Powered By DC wrote:
> >>
> >> On a leval highway @ 60mph it is about 250-275 although in my average
> >> driving
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

We are Beta testing a new controller from Synkromotive in Portland. It is a
great controller that is fully programable. They should be bringing it to
market in the near future 


What controller is on the RAV4? 48*3.5 would be ~170VDC fully charged,
and I remember most of the available DC controllers hating anything
above 150V...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

THANK YOU! Exactly what I was looking for... 

Chris

On Saturday 07 March 2009 12:42:32 Willie McKemie wrote:
>


> Busbodger wrote:
> > > Hello, I'm a newbie that has been lurking for some time.
> > >
> > > Am interested in someday doing a conversion on our 1st gen CR-V we've
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Thanks David. I am mostly working on the self education end of the project 
right now since that is most affordable. This list is amazing! 

I do plan to start small and work up. Our first family EV will be a go-cart 
for our kids. Something slow (~15 mph). I'm sure it will be much better 
recieved than the noisy dirt bike that the kid down the street bombs around 
the neighborhood on. 

Eventually once one of our daily drivers needs an engine I hope to go the EV 
route. Both vehicles are solid but they are getting pretty long in the tooth. 
My commute is an easy EV commute - about 10 miles of 30-50 mph. My wife's is 
more like 25 miles each way at 60 mph. 

Thank you to everyone for your responses! I'll keep reading. 

Chris in TN



> On Saturday 07 March 2009 13:46:23 EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > On 7 Mar 2009 at 8:53, Busbodger wrote:
> > > Hello, I'm a newbie ... interested in someday doing a conversion ...
> > > Can you point me towards a webpage detailing these LifePo batteries?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Chris,

There's a rule of thumb for Lithium Batteries that you might find 
useful. Its very simplistic, but will probably get you in the 
ballpark. The rule of thumb is that one gallon of gas is equivalent 
to 8kWh of battery. So, say you were starting with a vehicle that got 
30 MPG, and you wanted to drive 60 mile, you would need 60/30 x 8kWh = 
16 kWh of usable energy in lithium batteries. Since you should design 
your pack to not go below 80% DOD (depth of discharge), you would want 
a 20kWh pack. This rule of thumb doesn't work well for lead batteries.

So your wife would need a $10-$12K lithium pack to do her daily commute.

Your commute could easily be done with regular 6 or 8 V flooded golf 
cart batteries.

In the end, you really have to motivated by more than cheaper 
transportation to go this route. I think most people on this list 
have other motivations like independence from foreign oil, climate 
change, sustainable living, and so on. Some others just enjoy the 
challenge, and then there are the drag racers amongst us. Whatever 
floats your boat... your welcome on this list.



> Chris wrote:
> 
> > Thanks David. I am mostly working on the self education end of the
> > project
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

I have a question about this rule of thumb and car mileage. Do we use 
the city,highway,combined?
Does the same distinction exist for EV's?

I never drove my1987 300zx as an ICE. It currently gets about 
425wh/mile, quiet awful.
I went online to the epa and looked at what they say for mileage and 
they say 15 city 22 highway 18 combined.
Why is the mileage for this car so low? I would of thought my 4000lb 
current weight is what is causing the 425 wh/mile number but now I am 
not so sure. My pontiac grand am had a 3100 V6, same as the Z but 
weighs only 2800, it gets 28 on the freeway and about 17 in town (epa 
says 17/26. I like there new numbers.)
But if you look the 4 cyl model gets 19/29. For the size, I have always 
thought the grand am got poor mileage. I think the difference is 
automatic vs stick, motor size shouldn't effect mileage much.

So is rolling resistance the issue here? Is the 425wh a tell tale as why 
the Z car mileage is so low?(all my driving is in town, under 50)
I have been wondering if the independent rear suspension RWD is just 
that much more wasteful than say a FWD.
Or is it all about weight.

> Chris,
>
> There's a rule of thumb for Lithium Batteries that you might find 
> useful. Its very simplistic, but will probably get you in the 
> ballpark. The rule of thumb is that one gallon of gas is equivalent 
> to 8kWh of battery. So, say you were starting with a vehicle that got 
> 30 MPG, and you wanted to drive 60 mile, you would need 60/30 x 8kWh = 
> 16 kWh of usable energy in lithium batteries. Since you should design 
> your pack to not go below 80% DOD (depth of discharge), you would want 
> a 20kWh pack. This rule of thumb doesn't work well for lead batteries.
>
> So your wife would need a $10-$12K lithium pack to do her daily commute.
>
> Your commute could easily be done with regular 6 or 8 V flooded golf 
> cart batteries.
>
> In the end, you really have to motivated by more than cheaper 
> transportation to go this route. I think most people on this list 
> have other motivations like independence from foreign oil, climate 
> change, sustainable living, and so on. Some others just enjoy the 
> challenge, and then there are the drag racers amongst us. Whatever 
> floats your boat... your welcome on this list. 

_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

Does the 300ZX still have the low profile wide tires? I bet they are quite 
a drag on the system if so. Would be interesting to see what just a tire 
change would do to your numbers.
Just a thought from the peanut gallery
Kelly

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4


>I have a question about this rule of thumb and car mileage. Do we use
> the city,highway,combined?
> Does the same distinction exist for EV's?
>
> I never drove my1987 300zx as an ICE. It currently gets about
> 425wh/mile, quiet awful.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

How are you measuring 425wh/mile?
Is that energy used from the mains?
Or energy the battery has delivered to the controller?

The energy has to go somewhere, if its going to rolling resistance, then you
would expect to see hot bearings, tires or maybe rubbing brakes.
If its being lost in the transmission, that would be hot.
Whats your transmission temperature like?

How much cruising poewr do you need at various speeds?

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Tuesday, 10 March 2009 10:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4

I have a question about this rule of thumb and car mileage. Do we use the
city,highway,combined?
Does the same distinction exist for EV's?

I never drove my1987 300zx as an ICE. It currently gets about 425wh/mile,
quiet awful.
I went online to the epa and looked at what they say for mileage and they
say 15 city 22 highway 18 combined.
Why is the mileage for this car so low? I would of thought my 4000lb current
weight is what is causing the 425 wh/mile number but now I am not so sure.
My pontiac grand am had a 3100 V6, same as the Z but weighs only 2800, it
gets 28 on the freeway and about 17 in town (epa says 17/26. I like there
new numbers.) But if you look the 4 cyl model gets 19/29. For the size, I
have always thought the grand am got poor mileage. I think the difference is
automatic vs stick, motor size shouldn't effect mileage much.

So is rolling resistance the issue here? Is the 425wh a tell tale as why the
Z car mileage is so low?(all my driving is in town, under 50) I have been
wondering if the independent rear suspension RWD is just that much more
wasteful than say a FWD.
Or is it all about weight.

> Chris,
>
> There's a rule of thumb for Lithium Batteries that you might find 
> useful. Its very simplistic, but will probably get you in the 
> ballpark. The rule of thumb is that one gallon of gas is equivalent 
> to 8kWh of battery. So, say you were starting with a vehicle that got 
> 30 MPG, and you wanted to drive 60 mile, you would need 60/30 x 8kWh =
> 16 kWh of usable energy in lithium batteries. Since you should design 
> your pack to not go below 80% DOD (depth of discharge), you would want 
> a 20kWh pack. This rule of thumb doesn't work well for lead batteries.
>
> So your wife would need a $10-$12K lithium pack to do her daily commute.
>
> Your commute could easily be done with regular 6 or 8 V flooded golf 
> cart batteries.
>
> In the end, you really have to motivated by more than cheaper 
> transportation to go this route. I think most people on this list 
> have other motivations like independence from foreign oil, climate 
> change, sustainable living, and so on. Some others just enjoy the 
> challenge, and then there are the drag racers amongst us. Whatever 
> floats your boat... your welcome on this list.

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> On 10 Mar 2009 at 6:25, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > I have a question about this rule of thumb and car mileage. Do we use
> > the city,highway,combined?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> > I have a question about this rule of thumb and car mileage. Do we use
> > the city,highway,combined?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

>
> How are you measuring 425wh/mile?
> 
With the odometer and the emeter. Odometer is a little off checking it 
against googlemaps
> Is that energy used from the mains?
> Or energy the battery has delivered to the controller?
>
> The energy has to go somewhere, if its going to rolling resistance, then you
> would expect to see hot bearings, tires or maybe rubbing brakes.
> If its being lost in the transmission, that would be hot.
> Whats your transmission temperature like?
> 
I agree that is has to go someplace, but everything is warm, nothing 
stands out.
Alignment is off in back To much negative camber which could mean too 
much sidewall flexing.
Tires are typical for this vehicle the are a 60 series. Nothing special.
> 
> How much cruising poewr do you need at various speeds?
> 
Using just the emeter to measure amps and volts it looks like 50A at 
277V for 60mph.
I know, that would be only 230wh/mile. It seems like it is the 
accelerations that get me.
But it takes a pretty consistent 2600 watts to work and 2400 watts home 
(about 6 miles)
> Matt
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

You are discovering the secrets of EV driving.

The acceleration from 0 to 60 on an EV can easily
cost you the energy to drive between 1/2 and 1 mile
at constant 60, so if you have a fast route with
a lot of stops (like an arterial road with traffic
lights at every intersection) you may try and see
if there is an alternative route that has lower
speed (even a 30 MPH road will bring you home in 
the same time as a 55 MPH road where you are
waiting for traffic lights almost half the time)
or a route that has fewer stops or predictable
stops where the traffic is light enough that
you can roll towards the stop and avoid the
jackrabbit starts that are almost required in
rush-hour traffic.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4

>
> How are you measuring 425wh/mile?
> 
With the odometer and the emeter. Odometer is a little off checking it 
against googlemaps
> Is that energy used from the mains?
> Or energy the battery has delivered to the controller?
>
> The energy has to go somewhere, if its going to rolling resistance,
then you
> would expect to see hot bearings, tires or maybe rubbing brakes.
> If its being lost in the transmission, that would be hot.
> Whats your transmission temperature like?
> 
I agree that is has to go someplace, but everything is warm, nothing 
stands out.
Alignment is off in back To much negative camber which could mean too 
much sidewall flexing.
Tires are typical for this vehicle the are a 60 series. Nothing special.
> 
> How much cruising poewr do you need at various speeds?
> 
Using just the emeter to measure amps and volts it looks like 50A at 
277V for 60mph.
I know, that would be only 230wh/mile. It seems like it is the 
accelerations that get me.
But it takes a pretty consistent 2600 watts to work and 2400 watts home 
(about 6 miles)
> Matt
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*



> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 
> >> How much cruising poewr do you need at various speeds?
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

My guess is they probably have a fairly high rolling resistance. I consider
60 series fairly wide compared to a 75 series. Plus higher pressure is
better for rolling resistance.



> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> > Tires are typical for this vehicle the are a 60 series. Nothing special.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

50A at 277v at 60mph corresponds pretty well with my back of the envelope
calculations for cruising speed.
I calculated you would need 8.7kw to push the air out of the way.
So that means the other 5kw or so is needed for all the other losses
(rolling resistance, motor/controller efficiency, aux loads etc).

So assuming motor/controller is 80% efficient, that means 2.4kw (at the
wheels) is used to overcome rolling resistance.
Aux loads might represent some of that [email protected] cruise - does it at all
Jeff? If so rolling resistance will be less.

So since 230wh/mile is used in cruising,
The other 186wh/mile (1.116kwh for 6 miles (averaged between to and return
to cancel out elevetaion gain) is used in acceleration/deceleration 
If your vehicle weight is 1800kg (4000lbs) then you need 240wh at the
batteries to accelerate from 0-60mph.
So that would be 4-5 acceleration deceleration runs per 6 mile trip to work.
Is this accurate?

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Wednesday, 11 March 2009 7:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4

>
> How are you measuring 425wh/mile?
> 
With the odometer and the emeter. Odometer is a little off checking it
against googlemaps
> Is that energy used from the mains?
> Or energy the battery has delivered to the controller?
>
> The energy has to go somewhere, if its going to rolling resistance, 
> then you would expect to see hot bearings, tires or maybe rubbing brakes.
> If its being lost in the transmission, that would be hot.
> Whats your transmission temperature like?
> 
I agree that is has to go someplace, but everything is warm, nothing stands
out.
Alignment is off in back To much negative camber which could mean too much
sidewall flexing.
Tires are typical for this vehicle the are a 60 series. Nothing special.
> 
> How much cruising poewr do you need at various speeds?
> 
Using just the emeter to measure amps and volts it looks like 50A at 277V
for 60mph.
I know, that would be only 230wh/mile. It seems like it is the accelerations
that get me.
But it takes a pretty consistent 2600 watts to work and 2400 watts home
(about 6 miles)
> Matt
> 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23 - Release Date: 11/02/2009
12:00 AM


_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] RAV4 ev with Lifepo4*

>
> You are discovering the secrets of EV driving.
>
> The acceleration from 0 to 60 on an EV can easily
> cost you the energy to drive between 1/2 and 1 mile
> at constant 60, so if you have a fast route with
> a lot of stops (like an arterial road with traffic
> lights at every intersection) you may try and see
> if there is an alternative route that has lower
> speed (even a 30 MPH road will bring you home in 
> the same time as a 55 MPH road where you are
> waiting for traffic lights almost half the time)
> or a route that has fewer stops or predictable
> stops where the traffic is light enough that
> you can roll towards the stop and avoid the
> jackrabbit starts that are almost required in
> rush-hour traffic.
> 
Fresno, Ca. The stupidest, most unpredictable stoplights in California: 
with 50mph surface streets, all grade schools and high schools face main 
streets and every shopping center's main entry is a road across the 
front of the stores.(where they later try to stop the cars at every 
store front for pedestrians. Left turn lanes hold 4 cars and it is not 
uncommon to sit at a stop light with no cross traffic and count the 60 
cars waiting for nothing. There are hundreds of areas where it is 4 
lanes across town, except for 1 block. The city requires each developer 
to pay for the road in front, so a field has a single lane out front 
with asfault curbs.
There doesn't seem to be any city planning, it is all ad hoc at the 
developer whims. Don't even get me started on the constant building of 
strip malls when others sit empty. All this makes unpredictable traffic 
hard on fuel mileage and smog, which we worry about so much because we 
are a valley. Comical. At least it is flat, dead flat.
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------

