# Anyone deal with these folks: www.calmotors.com



## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

I saw them in Autobloggreen and their products seem to be good.

http://www.calmotors.com/products.php?category=products&page=medium

Has anyone dealt with them or used their product? I'm looking at their "MID/FULL SIZE CAR" kit. Operating voltage seems rather high though.
________
DISPENSARIES


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## Juiced (May 2, 2009)

Not me but I did take a quick glance at the web page.

Lot of Cad drawings. 

I would have to make some calls first.


Ed


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Good luck with that. I called but all I get an an aswering service to leave a voice mail. I called at least 6 times already.
I'm trying to figure out if the motors are AC Induction.
________
RufousSexyGrl


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## Juiced (May 2, 2009)

Well there you go.... 

I would pass. There are many of reputable places to get parts from.


Ed


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Juiced said:


> Well there you go....
> 
> I would pass. There are many of reputable places to get parts from.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I just shitcanned their phone number.
________
Buy Hot Box


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## jagjet (Jun 17, 2009)

Dialed the number published and C'est Voila! Human Contact 

I just finished a very promising conversation with Mike Kasaba at Cal Motors today. He is a knowledgeable and quite personable individual with the company. They are in production now and will soon be able to produce much larger monthly numbers due to a recent affiliation with Parker.

They appear not to be geared to the DIY market, but they are up and running with a viable and very tidy design. I also found that they have a simulation program to assist with 90% accuracy what you might expect from the product in your application. 

While they are a young company it is my belief that they have a bright future and good prospects.

Don't be so quick to right them off!

Robert Phelps
Independent Photojournalist, Historic Racecar restorer and Electric car builder


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

jagjet said:


> Dialed the number published and C'est Voila! Human Contact


No thanks, I don't deal with a business where I have to be "Lucky" to get a hold of someone. 
Their number stays in the shitcan for me.
________
DANIELLA_RUSH


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## calmotors (Jun 26, 2009)

Hello. This is Mike Kasaba, CEO of CalMotors. Someone mentioned your posting so I am here to apologize for our phone system. We had 2 weeks of no receptionist and a backlog of calls to our mainline. We now have a new phone system that allows you to choose the department or dial by name.

The majority of our work is with OEMs and start-up vehicle companies that intend to produce high volumes of vehicles within the next few years. But I would be happy to take your call and talk through your requirements. Our systems use brushless Permanent Magnet motors as opposed to AC induction. Our inverters will drive an AC induction motor just as well as our permanent magnet motors, but permanent magnet motors are higher torque and lower RPM which fit better with conventional gearboxes and the balance of the driveline components. 

Best of luck with your project.

- Mike


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## jagjet (Jun 17, 2009)

Sadly I find the only thing worst than a closed mind is an empty mind!

If you have no conflict with this company then I have provided you with new information. 

It is your choice to use it in the spirit it was intented or you can remain in the dark !

It is of course your choice

Cheers

Robert


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## Usher (Feb 4, 2009)

jagjet said:


> They are in production now and will soon be able to produce much larger monthly numbers due to a recent affiliation with Parker.


Did you ask them about ballpark pricing for products? The "sports car" system they have on their website looks perfect for what I want to do.


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## jagjet (Jun 17, 2009)

They are working on a simulation and cost projections for me at this time and I will be able to share more as it becomes available

Robert


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

jagjet said:


> It is your choice to use it in the spirit it was intented or you can remain in the dark !
> 
> Robert


 
Dang, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings bro....my appologies....
Technically After calling and left a VM, I HAVE been in the dark.
OK, sure they had some phone issues so per his post, I'll give them another chance, but they mentioned they only deal with OEM (which leaves most of us out) so I thank you for your contact and info and his (calmotors) info.
________
CiaraDarling


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

GP250WC MOTOR
*Peak Power*
207 kW / 278 hp
*Continuous Power*
96 kW / 129hp
*Peak Torque*
219 Nm / 162 lb-ft
*Continuous Torque*
125 Nm / 92 lb-ft
*Maximum Speed*
13900 RPM
*Efficiency*
97%
*Min Coolant Flow (50/50 Glycol / H2O)*
5 l/min
*Inlet Coolant Temp*
55 °C / 155 °F
*Max Inlet Coolant Pressure*
2.0 Bar / 30 PSI
*Weight*
55 kg / 121 lbs
*Dimensions (LxWxH)*
427mm X 185mm X 185mm / 16.8" X 7.3" X 7.3" 


there sportscar package .... almost to good to be true ... 278 hp peak ... only 121lbs ! !!!! 

it would sound perfect for my 300zx conversion !! only need a price ... ill have to email shortly ... !


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

crackerjackz said:


> GP250WC MOTOR
> *Peak Power*
> 207 kW / 278 hp
> *Continuous Power*
> ...


Specs look even better than AC Propulsion, which seems unlikely. Hopefully, when you get pricing info it won't be something ridiculous like $10K.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

Well we can all hope for these specks and $3, I'm a dreamer


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

dreamer said:


> Specs look even better than AC Propulsion, which seems unlikely. Hopefully, when you get pricing info it won't be something ridiculous like $10K.


 
im guessing the fact that they are water cooled means they can get more power out of a smaller engine without it blowing. if thats the case cost shouldnt be to rediculously high .... i mean would would just be a small engien with a good casing to take more power. obviosly a air cooled engine is limitied by ventilation and heat ... i like there idea ... price would be nice to see....


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Well, considering the one poster that did contact them said they only deal with OEM, what good will the specs do for us non OEM'rs other than drolling?
I have drolled for a while since I discovered them. Too bad they don't sell to just individuals. It would be nice. I also contacted UQM. They said they only deal with OEM also and their price for the 75KW package was ~$20K.
________
M F L B


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

COS said:


> Well, considering the one poster that did contact them said they only deal with OEM, what good will the specs do for us non OEM'rs other than drolling?
> I have drolled for a while since I discovered them. Too bad they don't sell to just individuals. It would be nice. I also contacted UQM. They said they only deal with OEM also and their price for the 75KW package was ~$20K.


And people wonder why electric vehicles are not prevalent.

The first company to bite the bullet and produce an affordable AC motor + controller package with those specs will clean up. Low weight and high efficiency are nice, but they don't offset the cost factor -- not when a DC system with comparable power can be purchased for $5K.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

dreamer said:


> And people wonder why electric vehicles are not prevalent.
> 
> The first company to bite the bullet and produce an affordable AC motor + controller package with those specs will clean up.


EXACTLY!!!

Although I was an asshole about these CalMotors folks, I hope they do change their minds and sell to regular Joe th Plimbers like us at a comparable price of the NetGain products. 
One can wish....
________
Syanna


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## Usher (Feb 4, 2009)

I really don't see why anyone would expect these motors to cost as little as the Netgain ones. The Calmotors specs show more than 10 times the power to weight ratio of the Warp motors. If they really did offer to sell their sports car system for $10,000 I would probably order one right now.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Usher said:


> I really don't see why anyone would expect these motors to cost as little as the Netgain ones. The Calmotors specs show more than 10 times the power to weight ratio of the Warp motors. If they really did offer to sell their sports car system for $10,000 I would probably order one right now.


 
id be first on the list for 10,000 !! even 12,000 ... ! its absolutely perfect for what I need ...  ... ill have to cantact them through my boss see if he gets a better price.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Usher said:


> I really don't see why anyone would expect these motors to cost as little as the Netgain ones. The Calmotors specs show more than 10 times the power to weight ratio of the Warp motors. If they really did offer to sell their sports car system for $10,000 I would probably order one right now.


 
You're not comparing the sports car pkg ti the NetGain r u?
I was comparing the small car to the NetGaon Warp 9.

Maybe they would be willing to sell if there was a "Multiple Purchase" order or something. 

Anyone know if they brake regen? It's kind of a deal breaker for me if they don't. Otherwise there's no great reason for the high price other than more torque.
________
Web Shows


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Pretty sure regen is a given in these motors, no reason not to do it.


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## dreamer (Feb 28, 2009)

Usher said:


> I really don't see why anyone would expect these motors to cost as little as the Netgain ones. The Calmotors specs show more than 10 times the power to weight ratio of the Warp motors. If they really did offer to sell their sports car system for $10,000 I would probably order one right now.


It's not really a matter of costing as "little" as the Netgain motors. The Netgain motors are also hugely overpriced, because they are virtually handbuilt.

An advantage of electric motors vs. ICE engines is the small number of parts in an electric motor. It is simply a small number of components machined from copper and iron and relatively simple assembly. It isn't rocket science. Raw materials cost wouldn't be more than a few hundred dollars per motor.

The controller is another matter entirely. There you actually have some complexity and expensive components and assembly.

Still, economy of scale is the solution to the high initial design and tooling costs. If you believed there was a market of a million units a year for your design, you would spend a Billion dollars on an automated plant to produce that many. 

That is what I mean when I say somebody needs to "bite the bullet". Put up a billion dollars and then profit even with a $1,000/unit OEM price. That is the price level it will take to make EV's as common as ICE's. 

We'll know the time for electric vehicle adoption has come when we hear GE or somebody else has made this level of commitment. The fact that AC Propulsion, PML Flightlink, UQM, etc. have not attracted this level of investment is kind of surprising to me.


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## Usher (Feb 4, 2009)

dreamer said:


> It's not really a matter of costing as "little" as the Netgain motors. The Netgain motors are also hugely overpriced, because they are virtually handbuilt.
> 
> Still, economy of scale is the solution to the high initial design and tooling costs. If you believed there was a market of a million units a year for your design, you would spend a Billion dollars on an automated plant to produce that many.


This is exactly why I said that $10,000 for the system would not be overpriced. No company has gone into mass production of high-power, low-weight electric drive systems, and it looks like no one is going to in the next couple years. You have to realize that if you want one of these systems right now, you'll have to pay an "early adopter fee." I don't have a problem with that, since that's how every new technology is.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Jeez, why doesn't someone just call them and ask the price? I just bought a different motor unfortunately. You sure see the effect of not having a wound rotor with Joule heating - look at how large the continuous power is!

Tom


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

dreamer said:


> .
> 
> Still, economy of scale is the solution to the high initial design and tooling costs. If you believed there was a market of a million units a year for your design, you would spend a Billion dollars on an automated plant to produce that many.
> 
> That is what I mean when I say somebody needs to "bite the bullet". Put up a billion dollars and then profit even with a $1,000/unit OEM price. That is the price level it will take to make EV's as common as ICE's.


If that's the case, then they should do as the software industry does. Sell the product at low cost and charge for the support. At every project you will need to get some type of support. They can tier their support for OEM, Small Conversion Shop and DIY'rs.

One can dream right?
________
VAPOR GENIE VAPORIZER


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> Jeez, why doesn't someone just call them and ask the price? I just bought a different motor unfortunately. You sure see the effect of not having a wound rotor with Joule heating - look at how large the continuous power is!
> 
> Tom


 
Ive spoken to the salesmen over a few emails. price for the sports car package is 18,000 $ ... thats for one unit either company or individual . if a multiple order is done he says price goes down substantially ! ... salesman seems very nice and professional ! now I just have to convince my boss to pay 18,000 for a motors setup and over 25,000 $ in batteries !  im sure the motor is easy to convince im wondering how high he will jump when i tell him about the tek batteries ... !


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## Usher (Feb 4, 2009)

I hadn't planned on purchasing parts for my conversion until this fall or winter, but I would be in for a group buy right now if you can find some other people to help bring the price down.

Did you ask them if they also have gearboxes for these motors? Ideally I'd be looking for a similar design to the Tesla Roadster and Ford Ranger EV gearboxes (motor mounted transversely, directly attached to the differential), preferably with a torsen limited slip differential. I'd be looking for something between 8:1 and 10:1 final drive ratio.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

crackerjackz said:


> Ive spoken to the salesmen over a few emails. price for the sports car package is 18,000 $ ... thats for one unit either company or individual .


Holy shit Batman! $18K? That's well outta my range there bro.
________
HERBAL GRINDER


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

That's kind of what I would expect for such a high power well-made (looks like it anyway) system, one-off. Do you really require $25k in batteries? You can purchase LiFePO4 cells from evcomponents for $1.10/Ah plus 10% for delivery to the U.S. So $25k would be 20.8k Ah, or 104 200Ah cells. That's 333V nominal, 66.6kWh, about 10kWh more than a tesla


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> That's kind of what I would expect for such a high power well-made (looks like it anyway) system, one-off. Do you really require $25k in batteries? You can purchase LiFePO4 cells from evcomponents for $1.10/Ah plus 10% for delivery to the U.S. So $25k would be 20.8k Ah, or 104 200Ah cells. That's 333V nominal, 66.6kWh, about 10kWh more than a tesla


is that price including a BMS for the cells? e.g. cell balancers, charge monitors, etc...

also...

http://calmotors.com/products.php?category=products&page=sportscar

website says 400A peak and 207kW...thats 518V of batteries....

http://www.evcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SE40AHA cost about 45$ each with 480 Peak (pulse amps)

3.2V X 162 = 518V
162 x 45$ = 7290$
each weighs 1.5kg (3.3lbs)
3.3lbs x 162 = 535lbs

If it only takes 24hp (18kw) to keep a car moving at 70mph (freeway cruising)

A system of 500V would use 36AH...If you took the 45AH batteries down to 36AH (80% DOD) your range would be 70 miles per charge...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> That's kind of what I would expect for such a high power well-made (looks like it anyway) system, one-off. Do you really require $25k in batteries? You can purchase LiFePO4 cells from evcomponents for $1.10/Ah plus 10% for delivery to the U.S. So $25k would be 20.8k Ah, or 104 200Ah cells. That's 333V nominal, 66.6kWh, about 10kWh more than a tesla


 
lol the calmotors sportscar system requires 350 volts nominal ! the actual estimate from tekbatteries.com is 47,850 $ for the battery pack he believes i need ! plus 486$ in shipping and 4,816$ in taxe... for a total battery weight of 285 lbs !  obviosly thats absurde in my eyes for batteries ... so im deffinetly looking for a better battery alternative ... but the calmotor price i believe is a FAIR price ...


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> is that price including a BMS for the cells? e.g. cell balancers, charge monitors, etc...


The way I read their site that a big "No sir..."
It looks like it's just for the controller, motor and PCM. There is nothing to indicate a battery or BMS.

Seems like a really great product package but for my budget it's "Cost Prohibitive".
________
Vapor Genie Review


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

COS said:


> The way I read their site that a big "No sir..."
> It looks like it's just for the controller, motor and PCM. There is nothing to indicate a battery or BMS.
> 
> Seems like a really great product package but for my budget it's "Cost Prohibitive".


+1 mine is too COS..

I like the motor controller for 18K$ but still not understanding what voltage to use to get the desired kw with the 400A controller....unless of course for 18K$ CAL is offerng the 1000A controller...THEN there is no question this setup is one of the best out there....


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

I would buy a few of this sport car packages if I didn't already ordered and payed another system 

Their system looks great and the price IS OK!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Compared to UQM and ACP at about $25K it's a good price, but still way more than most are willing or able to pay for daily transportation needs.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Bowser330 said:


> +1 mine is too COS..
> 
> I like the motor controller for 18K$ but still not understanding what voltage to use to get the desired kw with the 400A controller....unless of course for 18K$ CAL is offerng the 1000A controller...THEN there is no question this setup is one of the best out there....


For what it's worth, IMHO, The higher your voltage the more efficient your motor is and of course better performance off the line. You guys are looking at the sports car model so the "Nominal" listed voltage is probably where you want to be. 
I am looking at the Full/Mid size and the listed "Nominal" is 650VDC!!! Holy shit! I'm sure you can run in just fine at 336VDC......lol......might no best efficient but fuk dude, that's some major $$$$ for a batt pack! My wallet is just screaming at right now to leave that web page. 
Although it is still not as muck as someone posted UPM is but damn......
________
Group Sex Cam


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Actually they seem to list to different voltage ranges for their motors, 350 nominal or 650 nominal. Frankly I think 350 is plenty.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

I don't see the problem with 600+ V.

If you go with lithium you can choose smaller (40Ah) cells.

187 cells = 600V @ 286 kg


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

More cells means more complex BMS, more connections, more possible things to go wrong. It's also harder to find chargers for higher voltage. Not to mention potential problems working with those voltages, most wiring is not rated to go that high. Unless you are building a real race vehicle I don't think it's worth it. 350 volts will keep amp draw pretty low most of the time.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Every time I return to this thread, I look at the (pretty) pictures of their products and ask myself why they would use drawings instead of photos of the products.

It always makes me wonder . . .


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## [email protected]@koZ (Apr 28, 2009)

Any new info folks?
I would like to have the "Mid-size and Full Size cars"pack but i don't know the price...
I am planing to convert my *NEW* mazda2  and i am still searching for the most suitable motor for my car.
For any advice - suggestions please feel free to replay.


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

I also have been talking with them and they get back 2 me once in a blue moon. Then I ask for an official price list and they never send it. These people do not know how to conduct business. I am a VP of a large company and I would avoid people like this like the plaque, because usually bad contact means bad company. At this point I am done sending any communication to them. I am working with a factory in China to develop a great controller I will keep you up to date on that.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

they dont deal with customers ! ... they deal with oem manufacturers ... I said this before in the thread ! I got direct answers and direct quotes right away when I contacted them from my company. if you have the cash up front for at least 20,000 dollars in a motor setup then contact them or ask me to . or else dont even bother your waisting your time and theres.


the setups like they sell arent made to be sold to do it yourselfers. for oem. we are talking of very high voltages and complex pieces. they dont want anyone dying from hooking up a 600 volt system wrong and I totally understand them for it ! simple and easy big companies or no business.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Can't believe this... 

AC Propulsion, UQM, this guys. Looks like they don't need the money in such a crisis 

As far as I know only ACP sold some units to BMW for their Minis. What are the others living of?!


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

Well maybe DIY Electric Car, the company, could arrange for some type of "Group Buy"...they do this on other forums for items that vendors require minimums for...

obtain commitments from more than the required number of people..

maybe even work with an escrow company or something, since we're talking pretty large sums...


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Jokerzwild said:


> I am working with a factory in China to develop a great controller I will keep you up to date on that.



Now, this looks more promising! 
Looking forward to more information about this effort, like configurability to match motor characteristics or stats on the already existing matched motors. I think you know what I mean.

Thanks for your efforts, this will help a lot of AC builds.

Eric


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## Jokerzwild (Jun 11, 2009)

That’s great if I wanted to I can easily buy 10, but that’s not what I am talking about. If I told you or one of my employees told you that they would do something for you then they better. I don’t care who you are if you are promised something then do it. I get it they sell to OEM then say that and let it go. The company I work for is a manufacturer based in China and 80% of our business is OEM, everyday people like us call looking for LED and we try to help. At least we will direct them to a distributor; we will even direct some to competitors. Thanks for your opinion!

Also I will keep you up to date on the controller, unfortunately I have worked with many Chinese factories and they sometimes just say they can hit specks. Then when it comes down to it they come no where close. So I guess we will see what happens.


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## COS (Dec 23, 2008)

Found some info on the company here...
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/06/calmotors-parker-20090602.html

Looks like "parker hannifin corporation" may be reselling their products? Maybe?
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/

I couldn't find their products in there though. Maybe too new and not yet integrated in the catalog.
________
California dispensary


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I read it as Parker Hannafin built the motors for Calmotors to Calmotors specifications, not as Parker Hannafin is a reseller.


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## pulkepop (Dec 20, 2008)

I sent an email asking specifically for a "compact car kit" and in less than 5 minutes got a "quote" from Mike Kasaba from CalMotors:

"We can sell you one system. Costs range from $15,000 to $20,000 depending on power and options."

These are the specs for the compact car kit:

*GP150WC MOTOR*

*Peak Power*
73 kW / 98 hp
*Continuous Power*
43 kW / 60 hp
*Peak Torque*
135 Nm / 100 lb-ft
*Continuous Torque*
73 Nm / 54 lb-ft
*Maximum Speed*
8000 RPM
*Efficiency*
97%
*Min Coolant Flow (50/50 Glycol / H2O)*
5 l/min
*Inlet Coolant Temp*
55 °C / 155 °F
*Max Inlet Coolant Pressure*
2.0 Bar / 30 PSI
*Weight*
44 kg / 97 lbs
*Dimensions (LxWxH)*
325mm X 185mm X 185mm / 12.8" X 7.3" X 7.3"


*GP400A CONTROLLER*
*Operating Voltage 350V Nominal*
205 - 410 VDC
*Operating Voltage 650V Nominal*
410-820 VDC
*Peak Current*
400 A (RMS)
*Rated Current*
200 A (RMS)
*Switching Frequency*
4.0 - 8.0 kHz
*Min Coolant Flow (50/50 Glycol / H2O)*
5 l/min
*Inlet Coolant Temp*
55 °C / 155 °F
*Max Inlet Coolant Pressure*
2.0 Bar / 30 PSI
*Weight*
16 kg / 35 lbs
*Dimensions (LxWxH)*
556mm X 285mm X 155mm / 21.9" X 11.2" X 6.1" 



*GP PCM*
*Power*
10 - 18V DC, 0.5A Quiescent
*Hardware*
Motorola Star12 16-bit, 25 MHz
On Board Temp Sensor
EEprom Storage 8KB
*Operating System*
automotive RTOS
*Signal I/O*
Analog Input (8)
Analog Output (8)
Digital Input (8)
*Power Drivers*
Relay Driver (8)
*Communications*
RS-232 (2)
CAN (2)
*Dimensions (LxWxH)*
185mm X 144mm X 56mm / 7.3" X 6.7" X 2.2"



Definitely out of my bounds


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned $18k. 
isn't that price for their sports car package or am i dreaming?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

efan said:


> Earlier in the thread someone mentioned $18k.
> isn't that price for their sports car package or am i dreaming?


 
correct 18k is for the sportcars package  !


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## Crash (Oct 20, 2009)

For the sports car setup:
Can someone give a max RPM/power time? How long can it hold this power at high RPM.


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## few2many (Jun 23, 2009)

Late to the thread. A long time ago, I sent these guys an email about packages and service. I was more specifically interested in the Terra Cruzer. The response came quick, they sell to dealers and at the time, didnt have any packages availible or costs for me.


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