# Heater ideas for EV conversions



## Galtha48 (Feb 3, 2008)

Starting to look at converting my wifes Ranger PU to Electric as an alternative to buying her a new car. 

I am wondering about a couple of issues.

1. Cost of the batteries seems quite high. Especially the newer NiMH ones. 
Any way around that? How many batteries would I need for the project?

2. How do most folks provide heat for warmth, defrosting the windows, etc.?
After the conversion that waste heat from the old ICE is gone. 
So what is the best way to provide that with the new setup? 
Anything like an electric element near the old heater box would likely 
use up quite a few watts that could be used to run the vehicle a few 
more miles. Though it probably would not need to be run for very long
to get the inside of the vehicle comfortable. I don't see any mention of 
that on the Lion EV conversion site. Guess in CA they don't need a 
heater? 

Thanks in advance for any ideas on these matters.


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

There are many ways to heat your car.

The most popular way is to get some ceramic heating elements and place it inside the heater box like you said.

Most of the time this is very fast and effective.

Some people use hairdryers hooked up right into the air system.

Both of those ways do use a considerable amount of power though, depending on how much battery power you have this could be minor.

You can even use miniature propane or natural gas heaters, though that does kind of defeat the purpose of being fully electric.


About the batteries, yes the good batteries are expensive, this is the only reason ICE cars still exist, because batteries are a large up front investment in EVs.

There is no way to get around the cost of batteries and I would not recommend buying any used batteries.


To that extent I've only ever heard good things about LionEV's battery packs and they're about as cheap as you can get Lithium batteries.

Hope that answers your questions.


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## TexomaEV (Jul 26, 2007)

LionEV's 2008 Ranger conversion utilizes the original vehicle's radiator overflow container with an immersion heating element to heat coolant that is pumped through the original heater core.

They will be offering a complete conversion kit for the 2008 Ranger with a LiFePO4 pack very soon. Not sure if the transmission your ranger will be a match though.

Look at the LionEV ranger videos at:

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&b=0&vid=1895161&gid=3331502


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## Galtha48 (Feb 3, 2008)

TexomaEV said:


> LionEV's 2008 Ranger conversion utilizes the original vehicle's radiator overflow container with an immersion heating element to heat coolant that is pumped through the original heater core.
> 
> They will be offering a complete conversion kit for the 2008 Ranger with a LiFePO4 pack very soon. Not sure if the transmission your ranger will be a match though.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I watched the videos. Ceramic element in the heater box seems like the way to go. Any ideas where to get an element that would fit well and be efficient? Suggestions where to look? 

I can see why LionEV use an emmersion heating element. The heater box does not need to be removed. So much less time involved for LionEV for the conversion. However, I cannot imagine that heating water to 190 F or so like the original system and then using the heater core to extract the heat could be very effective or efficient. 

As far as the conversion cost goes: $15K or so for batteries, plus the electric motor, controls, battery boxes, adaptors, etc.. Wow, what would my total cost be? Not to mention my time to do the conversion. $25 to $30K? 
I could probably buy a nice used Prius for that much. 

Like the idea of an electric car. Cost of gas for the Ranger right now is about $150 per month. The payback time for this setup would be, what? 20 years? 
Probably less considering the reduced maintenance cost of the electric vs ICE but still..............!! The rest of this vehicle will likely be rusted out and falling apart by the time any kind of payback is achieved. And if I need brake, clutch or transmission parts by then they may be pretty difficult to come by.


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## Thalass (Dec 28, 2007)

Y'know, it just occurred to me... If you're at home, and your car is plugged in, could you not use mains power to defrost your windows before you leave? You would save a bit of battery power, though you would probably have to keep defrosting as you drove if it was cold enough. Perhaps a thermostat in your car could switch on the heater during the charge cycle overnight, so that in the morning the car would be toasty warm and fully charged!


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

I created a wiki article here about EV charging Costs and Cost per mile:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8293

Most EV's cost $0.02-0.08 per mile to run.

As compared to if you had a 30MPG car and gas costed $3.00 per gallon near you, the 30MPH car would cost $0.10 per mile to run.

A lower end car of 25 MPG would be $0.12 per mile.
Finally an SUV with 20 MPG would cost $0.15 per mile.

You may not think that's a lot but over 10,000 miles the 25MPG car would cost $1200 in gas and a good EV ($0.03 per mile) would cost $300.

$300 vs $1200, the 25 MPG car thus costs 4 times more to run based off gas prices alone.

Now this can vary based on the efficiency of your EV and how much electricity costs ect.

But you need to decide if an EV is right for you.

Me for example, I plan on getting a job in town 3.5 miles away, thus I need an EV that can do 20 miles or so of range per day for lunch travel and ect.

This can potentially save me around $50 a month on gas.


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## TexomaEV (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks for that breakdown in EV cost savings. Plus the conversion kit for the DIY Ranger is nowhere near what you are thinking if what the Texas rep has leaked to me so far. I want to badly to mention it, but it's not my place to do so, at least not until told I can.......


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## gojo (Feb 1, 2011)

Mastiff said:


> I created a wiki article here about EV charging Costs and Cost per mile:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8293
> 
> Most EV's cost $0.02-0.08 per mile to run.
> ...


How about figuring in the cost of battery replacement? $2000 in L/A batteries will go about 20,000 miles, and would add $.10 per mile. This would make it cost more to drive the electric car, but one may break even on lower EV maintainance costs.


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## Inframan (Jan 30, 2011)

Here is an idea I don't know if its been discussed though. What about a hair dryer plugged into an inverter that is powered off a relatively small lithium battery and the lithium battery is charged when the car is charging. That way no charge would be taken away from your main pack while driving. Questions though how big would the lithium battery have to be and where would I get it for relatively cheap?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

In some areas the hand held hairdryer wouldn't be allowed as a demisting device.

During this winter, and the last one, I have been using a domestic fan heater in my ICE car to preheat the interior before setting off in the morning. It takes about 15mins.
The problem comes when leaving work at night....


If you use a wet system linked to the existing heater matrix then keep the pipe runs short and the volume of water small. It should then be possible to heat it in less time then it takes to boil a kettle of water, if your heater is powerful enough at pack voltage. It also keeps the weight of water and anitifreeze low.
You could have a preheated large tank of water to save using energy on the move but then the weight of the water might be better as extra batteries.

It is worth doing a search on ceramic heater installations.
Due to the way they work some DIYers have had some difficulty with initial current draw when cold.
Also if you have a powerful fan you may notice that the heated air is cooler if the fan is on high flow, a slower fan speed may then demist quicker then a powerful blast.


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

Maybe just use the hair dryer heating element in the heater box and the already installed heater fan. I would think the element would run on 144 DC but I stand to be corrected.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That would work but there is a fire risk if the fan isn't blowing. Conventional heater elements will get very hot if the heat isn't taken away rapidly.

Ceramic heaters reduce current flow as they heat up and so are self regulating.


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## rfhendrix (Jan 24, 2011)

Woodsmith said:


> That would work but there is a fire risk if the fan isn't blowing. Conventional heater elements will get very hot if the heat isn't taken away rapidly.
> 
> Ceramic heaters reduce current flow as they heat up and so are self regulating.


Thanks for the tip.


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## BillHoo (Feb 23, 2011)

Just get a small kerosene heater and bolt it down somehwere.

Like this:










You could make a small, removable metal enclosure so that it is stable and won't tip over.

It uses a battery just to light and then continues to burn on it's own until you press the EXTINGUISH button. Put it on the lowest setting.

Keep the window opened a crack to avoid CO2 posioning.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

BillHoo said:


> Just get a small kerosene heater and bolt it down somehwere.
> 
> Like this:
> 
> ...


I can see the headlines now.... "Man dies of carbon monoxide poisoning in electric car" 

There are plenty of electric solutions for heat, if you must burn a "gas" then keep it outside the cabin and use it to heat some water or something and run it into the heater core.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Hi! Here's what I did for a heater in my VW Bug.

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/11/plug-bug-electric-ceramic-heater/

The heater works "okay". Not too hot. I think I would have also liked a blower that puts out a little more "umph". I'm also looking into using the blower to cool the motor and pre-heat the heater intake air, allowing the ceramic heater to work a little less hard.

I used a kit from CanEV.com -- however, now that I have more experience with wiring and stuff, I would look into buying my own ceramic core and installing it. 

-corbin


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## idarusskie (Feb 17, 2011)

There are two issues to think about. one is to heat your butt the other is to clear your windshield. 
Some buses use a non heated fan to keep the window next to the door clear. old cars used to have vent windows that could direct air from the outside against the window(this would add drag). It all depends on how cold and how long the drive. one might try as small muffin fan.


To heat you butt you can wear warmer clothes or perhaps heat the seat. Although heating your batteries is more critical then heating you butt.
an example:
http://www.freeshippinginternet.com/fsi/wagan-deluxe-heated-car-seat-cushion-12v-plug-409.html


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I use a simple 1500 watt ceramic core heater, and made a little box that I was able to slip in the middle of the ductwork between fan and central diverter.... I had problems with initial draw blowing fuses IF I turned on heater while under acceleration and battery pack was sagging; I had a 96v nominal FLAs. I ended up putting 40 amp slo-blo fuses on to handle that first second or so....

I have a series of step-by-step photo on my site (link in sig)


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## redcelt007 (Oct 2, 2008)

As far as a heater, I'm working on a system that uses the heating element from a small coffee maker. It has a tube welded to a heating element that water passes through. I connected it to my 60 volt pack and it only drew 5 amps. It got very hot as well. I have this element bolted onto a small aluminum tank with a small pump inside. My idea is to circulate water through the heater core for heat in the winter and use the same tank and pump assembly to circulate ice water in the summer. I'll post results when I finish the installation.


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## redcelt007 (Oct 2, 2008)

p control Decided that the heater can wait until colder weather. I continued with the ac idea and it works! It basically consists of a small ice chest mounted in the motor compartment. In the ice chest is a 12v bilge pump (harbor freight) that circulates ice water through the heater core. All I do is add water with as much ice as the chest can hold. Turn on the pump and heater fan with the temp control all the way open.


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