# [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Dennis,

I live in Maryland and I had a 5.6 kW solar array system installed last November. In Maryland, the situation is much more advantageous than yours since the MD legislation forces the utilities to buy power from small suppliers (like me) at the same rate as they sell it!

Last month, my electric bill was $7.16 and consisted only in administrative costs titled "Customer Charge", "Universal Service Charge" and "Gross Receipt tax". Since I had generated a SURPLUS of 52 kWh, my bill came with a -52 kWh reading which became a credit. I will be using this credit this month because of fairly hot weather that forced me to turn on the air conditioner units. However, the credits earned are forfeited if they are not used at the end of the year, but this will not be a problem since I have a large house that will use more electricity than I can generate.

Furthermore, and this is the icing on the cake, the MD utilities have to supply (by law) a minimum percentage of their electricity generated via renewable means. If they cannot, they will be fined by the State. Local utilities are currently far behind on their renewable energy build-up and they have been allowed to buy Renewable Energy Credits (RECs) from individual suppliers who operate wind farms or solar arrays. 
This means that PEPCO, the local utility, will buy from me the power "credits" I have generated at a rate between $337.50 and $351.00 per MWh. My (calculated) generated energy is 6 MWh per year, which brings me an income of more than $2,000 per year. The time to recoup my solar array investment is about 6 years. Let me confess that I have a big smile when the sun is shining while I am recharging my Electric Neon for free!

The lesson of this story is that the rules are driven by local politicians. Maryland is one of the most advanced state in energy conservation, and lots of activists like me have strongly expressed to their elected representatives their desire to have the state encourage alternate energies.

It belongs to the people to tell (sometimes forcefully) their representatives what they want and why they want it. Sometimes it works!

Good luck!


Michael Bonard
Potomac, MD
Electric Neon EV album #1823




Message: 14
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 07:04:16 -0400
From: Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] energy storage system
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Right I hope you are right, but I do not trust the Utility. If I install a
PV Panel on my roof, (A BIG one !) and there is power left over after my
total consumption, here they will buy the excess and put it into the grid.
But they sell at one price and buy your power at only 15% if you want to
sell it to them. So if you generate 6 units of power during the day and need
to use one unit for lighting? during the evening, you break even. They just
don't "Play Fair."

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Dennis,

I live in Maryland and I had a 5.6 kW solar array system installed last 
November. In Maryland, the situation is much more advantageous than 
yours since the MD legislation forces the utilities to buy power from 
small suppliers (like me) at the same rate as they sell it!

Last month, my electric bill was $7.16 and consisted only in 
administrative costs titled "Customer Charge", "Universal Service 
Charge" and "Gross Receipt tax". Since I had generated a SURPLUS of 52 
kWh, my bill came with a -52 kWh reading which became a credit. I will 
be using this credit this month because of fairly hot weather that 
forced me to turn on the air conditioner units. However, the credits 
earned are forfeited if they are not used at the end of the year, but 
this will not be a problem since I have a large house that will use more 
electricity than I can generate.

Furthermore, and this is the icing on the cake, the MD utilities have to 
supply (by law) a minimum percentage of their electricity generated via 
renewable means. If they cannot, they will be fined by the State. Local 
utilities are currently far behind on their renewable energy build-up 
and they have been allowed to buy Renewable Energy Credits (RECs) from 
individual suppliers who operate wind farms or solar arrays. This means 
that PEPCO, the local utility, will buy from me the power "credits" I 
have generated at a rate between $337.50 and $351.00 per MWh. My 
(calculated) generated energy is 6 MWh per year, which brings me an 
income of more than $2,000 per year. The time to recoup my solar array 
investment is about 6 years. Let me confess that I have a big smile when 
the sun is shining while I am recharging my Electric Neon for free!

The lesson of this story is that the rules are driven by local 
politicians. Maryland is one of the most advanced state in energy 
conservation, and lots of activists like me have strongly expressed to 
their elected representatives their desire to have the state encourage 
alternate energies.

It belongs to the people to tell (sometimes forcefully) their 
representatives what they want and why they want it. Sometimes it works!

Good luck!


Michael Bonard
Potomac, MD
Electric Neon EV album #1823




Message: 14
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 07:04:16 -0400
From: Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] energy storage system
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Right I hope you are right, but I do not trust the Utility. If I 
install a
PV Panel on my roof, (A BIG one !) and there is power left over after my
total consumption, here they will buy the excess and put it into the grid.
But they sell at one price and buy your power at only 15% if you want to
sell it to them. So if you generate 6 units of power during the day and 
need
to use one unit for lighting? during the evening, you break even. They just
don't "Play Fair."


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bonard" <[email protected]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland


> Hi Dennis,
>
> I live in Maryland and I had a 5.6 kW solar array system installed last
> November. In Maryland, the situation is much more advantageous than
> yours since the MD legislation forces the utilities to buy power from
> small suppliers (like me) at the same rate as they sell it!

Wow! Lucky you! I met a guy up here in CT with a 10 kw display, and 
saw HIS Zero E bill. He has Sonny Boy inverters and feeds back more than he 
uses!He also is rather well off, playing with boats. We all know that they 
are holes in the water to dump money, anyhow?
>
> Last month, my electric bill was $7.16 and consisted only in
> administrative costs titled "Customer Charge", "Universal Service
> Charge" and "Gross Receipt tax". Since I had generated a SURPLUS of 52
> kWh, my bill came with a -52 kWh reading which became a credit. I will
> be using this credit this month because of fairly hot weather that
> forced me to turn on the air conditioner units. However, the credits
> earned are forfeited if they are not used at the end of the year, but
> this will not be a problem since I have a large house that will use more
> electricity than I can generate.
>
> Furthermore, and this is the icing on the cake, the MD utilities have to
> supply (by law) a minimum percentage of their electricity generated via
> renewable means. If they cannot, they will be fined by the State. Local
> utilities are currently far behind on their renewable energy build-up
> and they have been allowed to buy Renewable Energy Credits (RECs) from
> individual suppliers who operate wind farms or solar arrays. This means
> that PEPCO, the local utility, will buy from me the power "credits" I
> have generated at a rate between $337.50 and $351.00 per MWh. My
> (calculated) generated energy is 6 MWh per year, which brings me an
> income of more than $2,000 per year. The time to recoup my solar array
> investment is about 6 years. Let me confess that I have a big smile when
> the sun is shining while I am recharging my Electric Neon for free!

YES! Heartwarming story, and on the Least Coast, too!? Doug Korthof does 
this in Sunny Cali-Fornia, Where It Never Rains to quote that song a few 
years ago. BUT MD SOGS in the summer!! Humidity and muggyness like Florida. 
You HAVE to run AC to survive!
>
> The lesson of this story is that the rules are driven by local
> politicians. Maryland is one of the most advanced state in energy
> conservation, and lots of activists like me have strongly expressed to
> their elected representatives their desire to have the state encourage
> alternate energies.

Anfd you were heard!? Amazing!
>
> It belongs to the people to tell (sometimes forcefully) their
> representatives what they want and why they want it. Sometimes it works!
>
> Good luck!

Ya gunna NEED it! CT goes on biz as usual, and highest E rates in the 
country to prove it!

Bob Rice

Cool sunny Killingworth CT

*9 electric Jetta "Led Sled" on the EV Album, too.
>
>
> Michael Bonard
> Potomac, MD
> Electric Neon EV album #1823
>
>
>
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 07:04:16 -0400
> From: Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] energy storage system
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Right I hope you are right, but I do not trust the Utility. If I
> install a
> PV Panel on my roof, (A BIG one !) and there is power left over after my
> total consumption, here they will buy the excess and put it into the grid.
> But they sell at one price and buy your power at only 15% if you want to
> sell it to them. So if you generate 6 units of power during the day and
> need
> to use one unit for lighting? during the evening, you break even. They 
> just
> don't "Play Fair."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

No, if you think about it, Pepco is not paying you anything. I have
the same situation with BGE. All you are seeing is that you are using
your own electricity that you generated instead of buying it from
them. The key is where you say the credits earned are forfeited if
they are not used by the end of the year. This means that Pepco takes
whatever electricity you generate that exceeds what you use and PAYS
YOU NOTHING for it. If I am wrong and you actually get a check from
Pepco, please let us all know as this will change my thinking on
installing solar. I have my electric usage reduced to the point where
my electric bill is a fraction of what my friends pay (my total
electric and gas bill, with all fees, rarely exceeds $150 per month
and is generally quite a bit lower). As long as I have to give BGE my
surplus electricity rather than them buying it from me, it's not
really worth it for me to install solar.

Dave in Glen Burnie, Maryland



> Michael Bonard <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Dennis,
> >
> > I live in Maryland and I had a 5.6 kW solar array system installed last N=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > As long as I have to give BGE my
> > surplus electricity rather than them buying it from me, it's not
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Here in California we get 1 to 1. If we have extra at the end of the year we
can request a voucher. PG&E won't pay but Roseville Power will. They are a
green power supplier and will honor a PG&E voucher. We have yet to have
extra atthe end of the year. Close but no go yet. Love the solar. Ours is
7.2kw.

Pete 

-----
With off the shelf parts you can build an affordable EV.
http://greenev.zapto.org/electricvw
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Grid-tie-system-rules-in-Maryland-tp2247936p2248130.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Zeke,

I don't know where you live, but up here, electric bills of 300 to 400
a month for a modest house are quite common. At only 150 a month, it
would take a very long time to pay back the cost of the panels,
inverter, wiring, installation, permits, etc. If I were allowed to
purchase surplus equipment and install it myself, it would be quite
doable. However, by law, I'm required to hire a licensed electrician
to even just replace a ceiling fan. Maryland is ridiculously
restrictive on what I can do myself. If I decide to remain in this
house, I might still have some installed, but current plans are to
move to a less costly state within the next year or so.

Yes, I would be installing solar partially to make a statement. I
would especially like to show how I can charge my EV from the sun,
once I get my EV. Being able to produce what I use, including an EV,
and still have surplus to sell back would show just how effective
solar can be.

On 6/8/10, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> wrote:
>


> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> As long as I have to give BGE my
> >> surplus electricity rather than them buying it from me, it's not
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> However, by law, I'm required to hire a licensed electrician
> to even just replace a ceiling fan. Maryland is ridiculously
> restrictive on what I can do myself.

That is pretty nuts ....
AZ is a little more lax  you can do your own PV install you just have to
get it inspected by the city and pass NEC.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Doesn't CA have a rate structure tied to load? So that at peak times the 
cost is higher? If so then you would be generating at peak rate times 
(sunny days when ACs are running) and hopefully using (charging cars at 
night) at low rate times. In that case you would be leveraging your 
investment.

VA is like MD - they pay me what I pay them, but can't have a net 
surplus over the year. I just connected my 4kW array two weeks ago. I 
think it's a good deal. We had a one time state rebate program last fall 
(which pushed me over the edge) of $2/W.

- SteveS



> gottdi wrote:
> > Here in California we get 1 to 1. If we have extra at the end of the year we
> > can request a voucher. PG&E won't pay but Roseville Power will. They are a
> > green power supplier and will honor a PG&E voucher. We have yet to have
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes California does have a structure tied to load. But only if you 
choose to do that. There are special restrictions and for the most 
part we would not be able to conform to those and so choose to just do 
the normal 1 to 1. If later we decide we can conform then we will take 
advantage of the load structure which is quite good. That would put us 
over and we could have some left over. Take a voucher to the other 
provider for a rebate check.

Pete 



On Jun 8, 2010, at 7:49 PM, SteveS-5 [via Electric Vehicle Discussion 


> List] wrote:
> 
> > Doesn't CA have a rate structure tied to load? So that at peak times
> > the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Colorado. We're still on a fixed rate structure, at around 10 cents a kWh,
summer winter, day night, no variation. An "average" house here uses around
750kWh per month, so about $75/month, though there are certainly alot with
higher... more like 1500kWh a month. Alot of houses here still don't have
air conditioning, so that keeps the average usage down, but that's changing
-- almost all newer houses do have A/C. But, there are a number with
electric heat too, and of course, that's much more. I've seen up to $500 a
month for that, which is considered quite a lot.



> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Zeke,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I lived in a rental unit in CA (Sunnyvale) where
PG&E offers ToU metering for anyone who registers
that he is charging an EV at home.
(This includes a free meter swap).
I found that while the night tariff was much lower
and I could charge my EV at about 6c/kWh the
combination of much higher peak tariff and the
extra electricity use pushing be out of the
baseline rates, made it a wash with the old meter
which was fixed 10c/kWh or so.
You need to do the calculation before going for it.
If you have very low daily usage or have PV offset almost
all of your day usage then it definitely can be a boon.

BTW, I asked PG&E for meter swap and it got installed within
3 days, but I am not sure if the owner or the next renter
liked it - I never asked...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of gottdi
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland


Yes California does have a structure tied to load. But only if you
choose to do that. There are special restrictions and for the most part
we would not be able to conform to those and so choose to just do the
normal 1 to 1. If later we decide we can conform then we will take
advantage of the load structure which is quite good. That would put us
over and we could have some left over. Take a voucher to the other
provider for a rebate check.

Pete 



On Jun 8, 2010, at 7:49 PM, SteveS-5 [via Electric Vehicle Discussion


> List] wrote:
> 
> > Doesn't CA have a rate structure tied to load? So that at peak times
> > the cost is higher? If so then you would be generating at peak rate
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ooops.
My house where I installed 3 kW solar panels
generated 2100kWh per year and consumption
was about 1700 per year.
This was a 3-bedroom house, lived in by a family
of 4 with electric cooking, washing, drying...
How can anyone use 60,000kWh per year? Oooops.


Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:02 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland

Colorado. We're still on a fixed rate structure, at around 10 cents a
kWh, summer winter, day night, no variation. An "average" house here
uses around 750kWh per month, so about $75/month, though there are
certainly alot with higher... more like 1500kWh a month. Alot of houses
here still don't have air conditioning, so that keeps the average usage
down, but that's changing
-- almost all newer houses do have A/C. But, there are a number with
electric heat too, and of course, that's much more. I've seen up to
$500 a month for that, which is considered quite a lot.

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Dave Davidson <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > Zeke,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Electric heat quickly outswamps just about any other use of electricity.....
but alot of people think that heat is the easy thing to do with solar
energy... it's not. Running an EV is easier.

I grew up in a house with a 194 watt PV array as the only electricity
source. It was fine except in the winter.

Z



> Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Ooops.
> > My house where I installed 3 kW solar panels
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

We're with 2.5kw solar and ToU net metering with PGE in Portland.
We zero out on mid-peak power each month and PGE applies our excess
generation to offset our ON-peak power usage, which is pretty cool. Last
month, we had no billable ON or MID-peak power, just OFF-peak. Nice.
-MylesT

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland

I lived in a rental unit in CA (Sunnyvale) where
PG&E offers ToU metering for anyone who registers

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

you folks are missing a critical point

Here in Maryland, Michael Bonard has a 5+ Kw PV array
he makes around 6Mw (6,000kWh) per year which are 6 solar REC's (around $90=
0 if bought residential wholesale)

he gets to BOTH use the generated electrons, offsetting his electric bill b=
y ~$900/yr, AND additionally get paid ~$2,000 per year (declining scale) by=
selling the RIGHTS to Pepco to say they "used his 6 REC's" as renewable en=
ergy, effectively double dipping, =

having total avoided and payments of nearly $3,000 positive cash flow to hi=
m per year

you buy a 5kw for ~$24-30,000, get a 30% federal tax break bringing cost to=
between $17,-21,000
so payback is 6-8 years AND then your electricity is free except for a nomi=
nal connect charge and you are running your EV and house on very locally pr=
oduced power



----- Original Message ----
From: Myles Twete <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, June 9, 2010 1:32:06 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland

We're with 2.5kw solar and ToU net metering with PGE in Portland.
We zero out on mid-peak power each month and PGE applies our excess
generation to offset our ON-peak power usage, which is pretty cool. Last
month, we had no billable ON or MID-peak power, just OFF-peak. Nice.
-MylesT

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland

I lived in a rental unit in CA (Sunnyvale) where
PG&E offers ToU metering for anyone who registers

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years minimum
working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take the
exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.

But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own house.....
regardless of qualifications



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > > Or become a licensed electrician?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In Wisconsin to do your own home all you need to do is go down to the code
enforcement office and take a written test. About an hour. I got a perfect
paper, must have been a pretty easy test.

Mark Grasser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:10 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland

?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years minimum
working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take the
exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.

But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own house.....
regardless of qualifications



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > > Or become a licensed electrician?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On 6/9/2010 9:10 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> ?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years minimum
> working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take the
> exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.
>
> But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own house.....
> regardless of qualifications
>
>


> Lee Hart<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> >>> Or become a licensed electrician?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It's like that in Michigan too. I personally think that's stupid. If you 
know enough to pass the exam that should be enough. But unions are evil 
organizations that wield a lot of power.

I'm assuming that Lee had the relevant experience to be able to get the 
license.

On 6/9/2010 10:10 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> ?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years minimum
> working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take the
> exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.
>
> But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own house.....
> regardless of qualifications
>
>


> Lee Hart<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In Oregon, you have to take 4 years apprenticeship schooling, plus 8000 
hours of working for a qualified electrical contractor with the proper 
supervision, then pass the test. And that's just to get a journeyman's 
license - to inspect, it takes 4 more years of working as a journeyman, then 
pass another test to get the inspector's license.

But you can work on an owner-occupied house, if you get permits and 
inspections, unless you plan to sell it in the next 5 years.

Of course, as a licensed electrical contractor that is also certified in 
solar installation, I have the connections to do it - but not the money!!!!

Barter, anyone??

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Grid tie system rules in Maryland


> ?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years 
> minimum
> working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take 
> the
> exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.
>
> But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own 
> house.....
> regardless of qualifications
>
>


> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> >> > Or become a licensed electrician?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Maryland is also very difficult to get licensed. At least in Anne
Arundel County, there's very little you can legally do to your own
home. For example, to legally replace a ceiling fan, I was supposed to
first get a building permit, then hire a licensed electrician to
install it, then have the installation inspected by the county.
Needless to say, I just replaced it myself, as most people do.

By the way, I was chatting with an installer in Maryland this past
weekend at the Power of DC. Besides all the other BS, the solar
installation must be inspected by the power company before it can be
connected, but there is no required time frame. The power company may
take six months or longer to get around to you.

At least I don't have a home owners association. They universally
prohibit any kind of solar panel installation.

On 6/9/10, Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/9/2010 9:10 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>> ?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years
>> minimum
>> working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take
>> the
>> exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.
>>
>> But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own
>> house.....
>> regardless of qualifications
>>
>>


> Lee Hart<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> >>>> Or become a licensed electrician?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Folks, sorry to break in, but please try to keep the discussion focused on 
EVs. 

For general alternative energy discussions, check out our sister list, 
[email protected]

Send a message to [email protected] (yes, it's still on the old 
SJSU listproc server) and include the text in the body

subscribe ae your-first-name your-last-name

You should receive a reply containing further instructions.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" an "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My electric provider in VA, NOVEC, had up to 30 days to inspect my 
installation, and another 30 days to actually install the new meter and 
let me switch it on. I mailed my notification on a Friday and the meter 
and go-ahead came the next Wednesday! Sometimes things work out. Bad 
news is I know have a digital meter so I don't get to see the meter spin 
backwards.

I was able to do all my own work, but a solar install must be signed off 
by a certified electrician. The system must also be signed off by a 
licensed PV installer to get the VA rebate. I was able to find someone 
that would work with me and let me provide the labor and get a 
discounted price.

BTW, thank you Mr Administrator, for letting this somewhat off-topic 
thread go on. I think it has a lot of EV related content. Just seeing 
what different places allow in terns of doing electrical work is really 
interesting. This pertains as well to putting in home charging stations, 
so I think it's germane.

- SteveS

On 6/9/2010 11:48 AM, Dave Davidson wrote:
> Maryland is also very difficult to get licensed. At least in Anne
> Arundel County, there's very little you can legally do to your own
> home. For example, to legally replace a ceiling fan, I was supposed to
> first get a building permit, then hire a licensed electrician to
> install it, then have the installation inspected by the county.
> Needless to say, I just replaced it myself, as most people do.
>
> By the way, I was chatting with an installer in Maryland this past
> weekend at the Power of DC. Besides all the other BS, the solar
> installation must be inspected by the power company before it can be
> connected, but there is no required time frame. The power company may
> take six months or longer to get around to you.
>
> At least I don't have a home owners association. They universally
> prohibit any kind of solar panel installation.
>
> On 6/9/10, Lee Hart<[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> On 6/9/2010 9:10 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>> 
>>> ?? Here, getting an master electricians license takes about 5 years
>>> minimum
>>> working as an apprentice and journeyman before you even qualify to take
>>> the
>>> exam. Most people take more like 6 to 8 years.
>>>
>>> But homeowners are allowed to do absolutely anything to their own
>>> house.....
>>> regardless of qualifications
>>>
>>>


> Lee Hart<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/8/2010 11:31 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

While straying a bit, I think this is fairly EV related since one of
the big arguements anti-EVers use is that we're just moving the
pollution. If we can point to solar panels as our source of
electricity, it boosts our arguement.

On 6/9/10, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> wrote:
>


> Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> Electric heat quickly outswamps just about any other use of
> electricity.....
> but alot of people think that heat is the easy thing to do with solar
> energy... it's not. Running an EV is easier.
>
> I grew up in a house with a 194 watt PV array as the only electricity
> source. It was fine except in the winter.
>

Very true, electric heaters being huge resistive loads are pretty silly to
run with PV.
Water heaters are usually load shifted to gas or another thermal source;
solar thermal hot water.

I'd say an EV is pretty much the perfect load for a pv system, its basically
a battery pack!
Essentially if you wanted to do it on a smaller scale you could use a dc
charge controller too.
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

When we ran our hot tub over the winter we used over 1500 kWh a 
month. Those things are energy hogs!



> Cor van de Water wrote:
> 
> > Ooops.
> > My house where I installed 3 kW solar panels
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, Roger, To reduce "Hot Tub" power consumption you have to set it up
inside in heated space with ambient air at 75 F. or hotter. Used on a patio
surrounded by snow is more fun but increases power consumption a lot.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>wr=
ote:

> When we ran our hot tub over the winter we used over 1500 kWh a
> month. Those things are energy hogs!
>
>


> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >
> > > Ooops.
> > > My house where I installed 3 kW solar panels
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave Hymers wrote:
> >Essentially if you wanted to do it on a smaller scale
> >you could use a dc charge controller too.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Researcher, Please hear me out, even though you won't LIKE all you hear. I
am sure you are correct that the item you were seeking is not available. So
you must chose an alternate path, not "Between the lines" to achieve your
goals. for example rewire the home if necessary to use different voltages
and different polarity, and AC or DC to power each load. Try to use DC for
as many items as you can, for example all lighting can be incandescent bulbs
and they work well on DC. Heating such as domestic hot water if far more
efficiently heated with its own solar collector. also a large insulated
water tank connected to it's own solar collector, connected to radiators is
a great way to heat structures and homes. All the fan motors can be replaced
with dc motors at far less cost than inverters to run them on ac, even
blowers for the HVAC system. It is also possible to use an alternative to
sealed unit compressers for refrigeration and aid conditioners, by replacing
them with open frame belt drive compressers and DC drive motors. An electric
range can operate on DC but the controls have to be changed along with the
use of multitaped "Burners" or "Elements" and they only give 3 or 4 "Clicks
between high and simmer to off. A lot of yaughts use DC power so look to
them for bits and pieces and appliances. also if you want to spend a lot of
extra money but use "Regular" appliances then use a 24 or 48 volt DC input
inverter and add a DC/DC to charge a small 24 or 48 volt mini-pac for the
inverter because DC / DC converters can be had in every range. you can then
get the 24 or 48 vdc input inverter from the Recreational vehicle industry,
Of course you would power the DC/DC converters from your 500V.DC main pack.
Also a lot of Inverters are sold for scrap along with some bad batteries as
units known as un-interruptable power supplies by almost every computer
business. There is also the old technology of a 120/240volr ac generator at
5, or 10 or 20 KW and drive it with a six or seven or nine inch DC motor but
the total conversion efficiency os likely to be 60 or 70 percent.
At any rate, All I'm trying to say of don't gove up, "There are always
Alternatives."
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM *
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
It=92s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation=92s 217 million passeng=
er
vehicles.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



> researcher <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I appologise to the admidistrator but I am buying in on this one because
> > I believe the EV community can do a lot to help out and influence the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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bmZvL2V2Cg==


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

aims has a 3 phase 12 kw unit this is off grid 24vdc

http://www.aimscorp.net/PWR12KW24V3p208.htm


sunny boy from SMA will do on grid 48 vdc

http://www.sma-america.com/de/produkte/insel-wechselrichter.html

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> researcher <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I believe the EV community can do a lot to help out and influence the
> > uptake of alternate energy systems.
> ...


----------

