# Chevy Volt/Opel Ampera Inverter



## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Gentlemen, 

As you might have noticed in my Honda IMA inverter thread I love tinkering with electronics. However the Honda inverter was too tiny for my dreams so when an Opel Ampera (chevy volt) inverter came along for the right money I knew what I wanted from Santa.

Oh my wat a beauty, after prying her open you are greeted by the brain board, containing 4 ICs each with a task. Two for the two different 3 phase stage, a monitoring IC and a main controller. However lacking on this board is any kind of clear large power supply for the different voltages needed for switching IGBTs. There is a power supply section , however I am not sure what the function is.

Second board down is the powerstage, clearly recognizable by the multiples of 6, the left and the right side are two separate stages which are not linked only by their HV supply for the voltage creation for the drive voltages. Also clearly visable is now the three phase current sensing per stage, 5 wire output and clearly identifiable by the chosen colors, this will however be validated later with some careful probing.

Finally the power connection side, there are two connectors here, and one is clearly the main connector while the other serves as power in from the charger if I am not mistaken, however the load of wires going down below the power stage makes me wonder that is down there. 

Questions:
Anyone know what is below the powerstage and where the who connectors go to ad the HV side? 
Anyone got some more pictures of thier inverters that they haven taken apart?

I would like to use this thread to document my reverse engineering progress and my findings, if anyone has any relevent information on this inverter please share it.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Did some reverse engineering. Stripped the current sensors out for some testing, and got good results. 

Now just got to make an interface board and hookup for the current sensors.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Don't know what year model you have, but, maybe this info will be of some use to you.

http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4372600/3/Teardown-reveals-Chevy-Volt-s-electronic-secrets?isCmsPreview=1


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes I saw that article, and that gave me the idea to go for the inverter. Shows a nicely split design that only has one big pcb that is really application specific.

However it does not specify what is in the inverter besides the parts which I already seen and reverse engineerd.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

neat, looks like they have a tiny processor or something by each gate, and bi-directional optos? maybe sending a phase voltage signal back (edit, and/or desat?)?


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

No, there is one opto per gate to do the switching of said gate and an opto for fault, need to dig a little into what driver is used to confirm whether it has desat detection.

Opto's are avago m46t and m43t.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

got a driver part number? also any markings on the transformer?

fwiw, if those sot23 are npn/pnp pairs then it might have desat.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Took one just now.

FE 009

31003 or 3i003

How ever I got it working so I could test some faults tomorrow to see what trips it since all the fault opto's are coupled to one transistor.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Succes, got it working and doing a little spinning. However like with the Honda inverter my issues with emc were back. Will now be making a drop in board for this inverter.

Anyone with more experience might want to voice in on some pcb/electronic design choices.

Currently I am planning the following:

12v in with ground tied to case like the oem part
isolated 5v supply for the processor and hall sensors
5v supply for the driver stages seperate form processor
Opto isolation on gate signals
Canbus for throttle inputs


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Turns out I should have spent alittle more time reverse engineering. Current sense lines are pulled to ground by 5k resistors inorder to have minimal current thus kill pesky phantom currents.

Added these to the lebowski board i am currently using, reset the chip and ran through setup. No more issues during FOC measurement 

Hooked throttles up and tested it, she purs like a kitten.


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## ChazFisher (Sep 30, 2017)

Nice work! Did you identify the part numbers of the IGBT's? And do both 3-phase inverters use the same IGBT's?


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## ChazFisher (Sep 30, 2017)

OK, I may have answered my own question. Found this paper, presented to the SAE by an engineer at GM: https://www.delphi.com/docs/default...chevrolet-volt-extended-range-ev.pdf?sfvrsn=6

It looks like both 1st and 2nd gen Volt inverters use IGBTs that are custom-made for GM. 3-phase inverter modules for two separate motors. The design requirements were:
1st gen: PIM-A - 220 Arms max, 150 Arms continuous
PIM-B - 425 Arms max, 150 Arms continuous
2nd gen: PIM-A and -B - 325 Arms max, 150 Arms continuous


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## trseven (Dec 9, 2008)

Great work! I'm working on getting an old DC conversion S10 going. I've bought a Chevy Volt charger and got it going by sending it can commands. My problem is I plan on using a salvaged Volt or I3 pack. Chargers lowest voltage 200V, my current DC controller 150V, don't want to reconfigure the pack to charge/drive. Would like to go with a Volt inverter and Nissan Leaf motor. Could you share how you got your Volt inverter going? It would help me out tremendously. I have an electronics background but this is a bit over my head!
Thanks! Gerry


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Check out weberauto on youtube .He just did a volt power inverter video.
Says they spec. out at 1000amps and 650 volts for each side.
I want to power a welder, 60hz 3 phase inverter and a ev conversion .I think this is the best power section going. 
The 60 cycle inverters switch at about 10khz. to get a good sine wave and power inverters switch at 2khz. (lower switching losses) So I was thinking that you could overlay (slightly out of phase ) the outputs of each power stage which would give 4khz. switching . As I understand it power inverter's usually can be turned up to 5khz. (hardware limits ,igbt , caps driver boards ) The overlaid system should give a nice sine wave 3 phase output.
This would be very nice for welding because smooth power makes better,easier welds even when using pulsed mode.
This may even help when running the volt in cuppled mode (2 motors clutched to run as 1)
The volt system may even do this .
After thinking about it the inverters are wired to each motor . If wired together the pulses could not overlap (shootthrew)


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Turns out I should have spent alittle more time reverse engineering. Current sense lines are pulled to ground by 5k resistors inorder to have minimal current thus kill pesky phantom currents.
> 
> Added these to the lebowski board i am currently using, reset the chip and ran through setup. No more issues during FOC measurement
> 
> Hooked throttles up and tested it, she purs like a kitten.


Hey Tom 

I got a chip from Bas and i would like to use it to drive Leaf motor. But lately i had some faults in my own inverter design. Quite catastrophic events... I dont want to do more damage and i cand find the reason all IGBTs went south.... I would like to get a Volt inverter to have a solid design. Can you help me with how you interfaced your logic board outputs? Where did you connect 6 PWMs and what did you use to sense current? Do you have any pictures or schematic of your interface/connection to Volt inverter? 

tnx


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Did i not post this pdf with all the pinouts?

I noticed I did not include this vid

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRh9DjJUplo


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Did i not post this pdf with all the pinouts?


Well yes thank you. 
But i assumed you had to remove some PCBs. Didnt you remove logic board? Where do you connect to have a fault output? 

Which transistor module do you use to drive motor? Or do you use both of them since you state outputs are isolated?

The way you are telling this means is you succeded? Would you recommend using this inverter to drive 360Vdc 400A motor?

tnx

Arber


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

I did not use the fault outputs.

You need to make your own pcb to do the controls, thus replacing the original logic board.

I am using one stage, should be enough for the motor you are describing. 

I have succeeded, however due to not having a vehicle to test with i have not taken it much further than I can spin the motor and regen.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> I did not use the fault outputs.
> 
> You need to make your own pcb to do the controls, thus replacing the original logic board.
> 
> ...


I did 60kKm on my Mazda with ACIM motor/JHuebner inverter but lately i had so much unexplained IGBT blowouts that i do not want to rebuild my power stage. I did use desat drivers lately and i got good feedback with overcurrent events from them. I would like to use that also. Did you find out what pin signals fault event. 
I would suggest lowering supply voltage without main DC connected. Usualy in IPM modules Fault/overtemp/UVLO and other outputs are gathered in a single fault pin. 

I will try to get one Volt inverter asap then  thanks.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I saw someone mentioned Weberauto channel and i went to search for it. What a find! I am impressed. Also i got some ideas, like running quattro drive AND one AC compressor from this inverter. If i only got to that hydraulic control drive underneath chill plate without disturbing IGBTs....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM6s3sLaTqE&t=7s


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Great drive for a quad motor . With all those tiny igbts gas cooling the top side would work great.Anyone want a 3000hp ev. lol
Thanks putting the video up.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Wow, thats a damn compact unit. And I like that channel, that guy loves what hes doing 
Of course I think the logic could be simplified


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

With Tesla using switched reluctance and LTI(Laterno international) using it for many years . I think it's time to revisit the SR inverter topology (with no shoot-through and square wave (1/10 switching losses )
Rebuss the volt inverter and mod the motor to SR, ideas


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I think 12 switches are needed, one volt inverter per motor.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> I think 12 switches are needed, one volt inverter per motor.


Basically You would have to make the rotor yourself... But you could use stator in 6 phase configuration with 4 pole rotor. Rotor cage wouldnt be shorted though. You would have to make some system to transfer excitation from inverter to rotor. 
Meet Kolektor slip rings. It is a Slovenian company who invented them . 
http://www.kolektorhybridics.com/products/slip-rings

I think the main prtoblem with 3 and 6 pole setup were vibrations at low rpm. 8 pole system would fare better or run it at high rpm all the time, or so they say...

Did you see the french cars already use SR motors. Or some hybrids of thereof. Check rotor at 7:30. At 9:15 you can clearly see Kolektor sliprings on the shaft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cyxAgqG78


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

The rotor in that video is a generator type . A SR will be just like a induction except it will look like a gear viewed from the end. They my not want to show that part . 
When Tesla was starting up about 2005 they were at a ev meet in Palo Alto
I talked with there motor engineer and he said the stater was subbed out , the magic was in the rotor , so they would do that in house to keep competition in the dark as long as possible .
On the inverter they can but not always do. set the bus so each igbt so that it must go through the stater coil to short out. Instead of just across a bus bar.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Tom

on page 3 of your pdf you refer to 30V power supply? Where do we need this? I thought inverter is powered from main battery directly? So did you use 30V battery? 
I thought of using 48Vdc from a scooter battery. Do i have to connect it somewhere else inside?

Also you mentioned you connect gnd. Where do you connect it on inverter? Maybe from inverter case to motor case? Are internals grounded outside?

tnx

Arber


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

No those are just notes of what needs to work.

So the HV input needs to be above 30V, this is due to the fact there is an hv buck converter that creates the gate drive voltage.

when i say ground or gnd I mean 12V ground, or car chassis. So the inverter casing should also be grounded in a proper installation.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tnx for the explanation. Seeing your pdf i had a thought... Should the gate signals actually have to be 5V or would system react to 3V3? 
Johannes inverter sends 3V3 towards drivers even though it supplises 5V to power them. 
Do you think that would work or should i think of 3v to 5v converter? 
Also you say driver signals have to be inverted for PWM to work? So signal LOW opens transistor and signal HIGH closes it?

tnx

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

The gates get pulled high by the supply you feed it.

I would just give it a try, you can always later add an 3 to 5V converters.

Yes pulling the gates to ground will activate them.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Yes pulling the gates to ground will activate them.


You can use inverter Active Low mode then.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Tom

Can you confirm gate connector/header on brain board is this one?
S18B-MECK-2GA-A
and current sensors are this one?
S10B-MECK-2GA-A

I can see they are both dual row connectors. I would like to make headers on my new brain board so i would just use connectors on wires as they came. 
Also current sensor wires are stacked in two levels on brain board connector. We could use any of the levels for single connector.

tnx

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

It looks real close, I cannot tell for sure.

Where are you going to order the connectors, cannot find a source besides mouser.

I would order the connector before getting your pcb made just to be sure.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> I did not use the fault outputs.
> 
> You need to make your own pcb to do the controls, thus replacing the original logic board.
> 
> ...


Hi, TomDB
Did you by any chance at least tried the Fault outputs? Would you know what kind of output it was? Was it open collector or push-pull? I am drawing my board now and need to know if i make direct connection or do i make pullup arrangement?

I intend to draw a full board with two lebowski controller interfaces on one single board. That way we could use both IGBT modules if we decide to, or populate just one.
I managed to get 18p headers for drivers and 5p headers for current sensors. I will interface tham in such a way there wont be anything to change aside from removing main board from unit.

Hm... do any of you know what kind of connectors are on the right?
I bet they are hard to get. I think i will make my front plate flange and in it some grommet or other type of sealed hole to put cables through. 

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

My inverter came with damaged input connectors so I have not looked at those on the board.

Can do that once im back from my Holiday break. 

Do you know the Lebowski board does not interface directly with the fault pins.

I will check the output of those too, should just be one wire per stage, a white one.

Also I will make sure the mapping of the current sensor connector is correct.

As i just have the mapping for the connector on the sensor itself and not on the main board in my documentation.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thank you.
Yes i know Lebowski does not use Fault pin, but i discussed this with Bas and he suggested i use reset/enable pin. I think i will use a simple transistor interface to pull signal to GND when fault condition applies. I will just have to know what kind of output it is. 

For the output wires i already decided i will make a front flange with O-ring and use a simple water tight grommet to run cables to main board. I also found my front connectors skewed a bit. 

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi TomDB

Do you know what kind of outputs are the Temp A, B, C? Are they just fault triggering or full analog signals? It would be good to know, because i am going to put one Pic16f alongside main chip to check for fault from drivers and signal reset to main chip. It will work as precharge and main contactor triggering also. I could implement Temp reading and program reaction to overtemperature as well. 

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> Can you confirm gate connector/header on brain board is this one?
> S18B-MECK-2GA-A
> ...


I can confirm that connectors are the ones i mentioned here. I got some from Mouser CZ, they were the only ones able to supply per piece. Rest will supply ridiculous amount only - 1000pcs or so. 
I tried gate control cable and connector header is S18B-MECK-2GA-A (male) with 18MEC-B-2A (female) on cable. 
I tried current sensor cable. On sensor side they are 05MEC-B-1A (female) and 10MEC-B-2A (female) on cable but on the PCB side it is S10B-MECK-2GA-A male header. 
Power supply uses one 05MEC-B-1A female connector on cable with S05B-MECK-1GA-B male header with middle pins removed to supply power to brain PCB. 
Cable crimps are SMEC-A021GF-M0.5.

You can check datasheet here... https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/564/eMEC-472100.pdf 
I also got design files for Designspark.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just got one of these myself. First job is to get the cover off


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Just got one of these myself. First job is to get the cover off


Watch your fingers. It is glued with the black gasket sealant. Very hard. I pried it open using three hands and 2 chiesels. 
Those 3 hands were not mine...!

Well D I am drawing a simple 12V powered board for Lebowski brain to ooperate single module. It is however a bare mosfet driver. It needs things like precharge and signal control processor. I was thinking of using pic16F chip.... but how do you feel about arduino nano? Do you think it could reliable handle things like:

- precharge voltage control
- main contactor control 
- temperature control
- car - human interface (led lights and LCD) 
- fault/desat/UVLO control 

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Using my pinouts diagrams and manual this should be a breeze for you Damien.


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## Nuts&Volts (Dec 20, 2011)

I purchased one of these recently off of eBay after seeing the tear down by Weber state. Little bit of connector damage. Grand plan is to parallel the IGBTs to a Nissan Leaf motor for somewhere around 1000A peak. 

The integrated low thermal resistance heatsinks on the power stage are the big win for me. 

By the way the OEM unit is about 30lbs and roughly 11.5”x16”x 5.25”. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi TomDB

Is it possible you can also find the function of the connector pins for the tranny hydraulic pump on the far left? I am asking because you clearly have a method of determining driver pin function. 
I suppose tranny pump inverter control is the same as main drive. Could you try to determine the pins for us? 
If we wake up that inverter we can use it for example to drive Prius AC compressor with it. That would give us working AC in the same cooling package as inverter.

tnx

Arber


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Arber, no problem it shall go on my weekend job list. 

Did the board connectors work out?

Edit: looking at that video, in order to get onto that pcb I will have to be doing quite some disassembly, anyone got a spare board laying around i can reverse engineer?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Arber, no problem it shall go on my weekend job list.
> 
> Did the board connectors work out?
> 
> Edit: looking at that video, in order to get onto that pcb I will have to be doing quite some disassembly, anyone got a spare board laying around i can reverse engineer?


From video i got that if we remove side panel with sensors and bolts from DC link cap. The cap should be removed with the lower lid. 
My backup plan was/still is i would make small inverter like this one here and would just use inverter as cooling plate....
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140346&highlight=prius+inverter

I will try to get you the plate.

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Had a look at the main board, they use the same HCT 541a line driver.
However the aux connector has large 180ohm resistors inline so I need to figure out why.

https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC74HCT541A-D.PDF

But this does mean once I have a board it should be quite straight forward.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Had a look at the main board, they use the same HCT 541a line driver.
> However the aux connector has large 180ohm resistors inline so I need to figure out why.
> 
> https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC74HCT541A-D.PDF
> ...


I will try to get you a sacrificial board to play with .

Connectors i stated here are the exact match with ones on the cables of driver board. They all go together fine. Only problem is they are a pain to get in small volume. They just told me that Mouser shipped last two connector headers i ordered in January.

Does aux has any feedback signal going back to brain? For a proven system we would have to receive at least 2x current sensors + evaporator temperature. 
I will have to check if it needs backEMF also.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Thank you Arber for getting me the third and smallest powerstage out of the inverter. Or atleast a second one, as mine is burried so far it would possibly ruin my working inverter.

It is the one used to drive the oil pump. You might say it right now does not hold alot of secrets for me. 

Dont you love it when engineers do not hide it, color coding of the wiring is key here, plus some looking at things in three.

Look at the 'top' near the three power terminals, there are three times three pins. Some probing proved out that two of the pins are linked to all the same pins on the three sets.
One thus assumes one is ground and one is power, and yes this is taking a leap and suggesting these might be current sensors like an ACS758. 

The wiring loom reveals that the two pins which connect to all sets are a black and red wire, the other pins each come out as a seperate wire; yellow green and blue. 
Thus these must be some sort of sensors, hooking up the positive to red and negative to black and observing one of the other wires reveals indeed the 5V on red gets halved on the wire.

Now finding the correct stud and pin on the pcb and passing current through it results in a changing value. I can now safetly say the three wires on the 8 pin connector are phase current sensors. 5V is red, ground is black and the offset is half of VCC (5V).

Curiously looking for things of 6 on the board i notice that there are 6 caps on the connector, corresponding with the following wire colors; 2x yellow 2x green 2x blue. Now these are highly likely the driver signals.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Power supply chip is the NEC C1009G

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/6667/NEC/UPC1099GS.html

The main driver chip is the international rectifier AUIRS2336S

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/gate-driver-ics/non-isolated-gate-driver-ic/automotive-general-purpose-gate-driver-ics/auirs2336s/

Unfortunately, the board is double sided with the isolation IC on the back side, this means i cannot probe it directly. First thing to get figured out is how to activate the Gate driver power stages. So this might involve some dangerous high voltages and probing.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> The main driver chip is the international rectifier AUIRS2336S


Hm... so the signals could be 3V3 level also? I am thinking of keeping to 5V though. I think i will use SMD lebowski brain.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Arber, there is an isolating IC on the bottom of the pcb. 

So I need to figure out how much HV voltage it needs before it turns on the secondary side power. 

Will look at the main brain board a bit to see if I can decipher in which direction the remaining signals want to be pulled.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

The secrets of control are no more.

Does anyone have information on the physical rating of the power stage components in the AUX inverter?

Please find attached the latest; Quick Start Guide to the Chevy/Vauxhall/Opel/GM inverter.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Collected all the required headers into Design Spark, will get some dimensions off my Main Control Board to see if I want to design a full board or have a modular one.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> The secrets of control are no more.
> 
> Does anyone have information on the physical rating of the power stage components in the AUX inverter?
> 
> Please find attached the latest; Quick Start Guide to the Chevy/Vauxhall/Opel/GM inverter.


Wow thx Tom. 

I decided it would be best to use sensorless controller with this power stage. So i ordered one SMD Lebowski brain board from Andy (*whereswally606*) on endless sphere. This will allow me to use one additional controller chip to run prechargeand external triggering like AC switch, predharge, DC contactor, Fault, undervoltage protection etc....

EDIT: I searched for that 18pin split connector and i cant seem to find a source. Beside original main board of course. Oh well i will be cutting into original board anyway.

I put a request for DS header design of S18B-MECK-1GA connector. I will put it to my design board and i will share other connectors here for anyone who would like to design a board for it.

EDIT2: I got all connector headers for various design software, see attachment...


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

I modelled up my own 8+10 single row header.

all dimensions here: http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/eMEC.pdf


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## Nuts&Volts (Dec 20, 2011)

arber333 said:


> Wow thx Tom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was hoping to go this route as well. So you plan to make 1 board that interfaces 2 Lebowski SMD control boards to the Volt driver stages? 

I’m debating whether I try to parallel the output stages of this inverter or split the Leaf motor phase wires (currently two parallel leads per phase) and run the motor as a split phase motor with two controllers basically. 

Wasn’t planning to use the third inverter, but it could be handy for an AC compressor. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nuts&Volts said:


> I was hoping to go this route as well. So you plan to make 1 board that interfaces 2 Lebowski SMD control boards to the Volt driver stages?
> 
> I’m debating whether I try to parallel the output stages of this inverter or split the Leaf motor phase wires (currently two parallel leads per phase) and run the motor as a split phase motor with two controllers basically.
> 
> ...


I intended to make a single board with 2 interfaces for motors or generators, whichever would be chosen. There would be one interface for sensorless application. This would control the original Volt/Ampera gearbox pump to actuate clutch mechanism or you could use this to drive AC compressor at steady RPM/power.

I would recomend the use of two motors for drivetrain and one auxilliary device. I am not sure about paralleling two drive modules. Probably it could be done, but there would be stray inductance and strange current circulation to consider with only one motor on parallel inverters. I am not sure how to interface signals for two parallel inverter designs. Probably some common signal chip or amplifier interface would be required, so both power sections would trigger at the same time.
I would go with two motors, one in front and one in the back. If you use Ampera power section IGBTs are rated 500A with 1000A for 1ms. If you consider two Leaf motors each on its own wheel pair that would be 180kW x2 = 360kW with a short burst towards 500kW. Power transfer would be better if you reduce power to rear wheel pair a bit. It would still accelerate close to Concept1.
I am just not sure which battery would be able to sustain this power....

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

The connectors are quite hard to obtain, has anyone been having luck getting them?

Otherwise I would suggest changing them out.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> The connectors are quite hard to obtain, has anyone been having luck getting them?
> 
> Otherwise I would suggest changing them out.


I got a set of driver connectors and sensor connectors from Mouser, but i waited two months for them. 
Last 18p connector is unobtainable however. I will pull it from the main board.

A


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

A bit like the Tesla small drive unit. Two small two pin connectors unobtainable so I desolder them from the Tesla board. Watching with interest. You guys are saving me a job


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> A bit like the Tesla small drive unit. Two small two pin connectors unobtainable so I desolder them from the Tesla board. Watching with interest. You guys are saving me a job


I am 3/4 of a Job into drawing of Lebowski design where i changed my mind. I will try to make 3x sockets for SMD version from Andy. It is really smallish board, only a bit larger than Olimex board. I would have three of them. 
Also i would have another chip to controll perifery. Maybe Pic16F or Pic18F.
I need control of Inputs: Voltage sensing, Fault signal, Start signal, BMS signal... and Outputs: Precharge, DC contactor, Fault light, Voltage light.

Do any of you have some design on that? It would save time greatly. Specially if the firmware is allready written. I am no programmer. 

A


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Arber,

I am taking the same approach, I will design a 'generic' controller board that can drop onto an interface board. Or be connected using a ribbon cable, depends on what socket/header you solder onto the board.

Almost done with the generic board schematic, only the power supply is left. 
I am thinking of using all the same headers for now so the total bom cost should be cheap to knock out the Lebowski boards.

What sort of functions are you looking for? Possibly a Teensy could form the extra control brain, however this might be overkill for a simple application. 

However, I have more interesting projects in mind since the volt inverter contains two quite powerful stages that can drive two motors.


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## Nuts&Volts (Dec 20, 2011)

It would be nice if that board had a resolver to encoder circuit/chip built in. 

From the information I have seen the Volt IGBTs are 600A peak units. 

I’m planning to split the Leaf motor phases and run each with a powerstage of the volt controller. This would require two Lebowski brain boards operating in a master/slave arrangement. Other option is one brain board that operates both powerstages with outputs parallled and use the motor as a standard 3phase machine. Either way I wouldnt be asking for more than 300-400kW peak to give some buffer. 500/1000A peaks (3-5secs). This is the lonnnnnng term goal. 

And two Volt packs should be plenty of battery to do that I would think. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nuts&Volts said:


> It would be nice if that board had a resolver to encoder circuit/chip built in.
> 
> From the information I have seen the Volt IGBTs are 600A peak units.
> 
> ...


No Ampera IGBTs are 500A 650V units. They are capable of 1000A for 1ms.
I stand corrected, IGBTs are Hitachi MBB650SV6A with 650A 650V rating. They should be capable of 1000A for 1ms. I think that is quite enough for normal BLDC motor.

I wouldnt recommend to use two brain boards with paralel inverters and a single engine, because of problems with sync. You do know that there is a signle capacitor and power line inside?
I would recommend to use two motors each on its own axis. However if you absolutely want paralel inverters then use a single brain to drive transistors trough an amplifier circuit. Connect phases in paralel before the cabels come to the motor. That way you dont get transient loops.

I am also in process of drawing three brained interface board. Third will drive AC compressor. 

I am trying to use Arduino Nano to use I/O signals. Everything will be digital, except maybe Voltage sensing and Evaporator logic.

I will use next I/O connections:
- 12V power
- GND
- Precharge signal out
- DC switch signal out
- Enable/start for all units, Arduino will decide which should start
- Reset for all units on the outside + each own reset trough driver Fault line
- Reverse signal for main drive unit
- Throttle signals 2x
- Motor Hall signals UVW 3x

- A/C unit on
- Evaporator temp could be checked by Arduino?
EDIT: I may not need Evap temp probe. My car has automatic AC so i just take the wire that used to turn on the compressor and... what do you know, enable the lebowski to turn on the compressor! DOH!

- MB generator on
- BMS input for the Arduino to control MB motor generator regen
- manual Throttle for regen trough Arduino
Probably we wont use UVW signals for generator since torque is more or less constant.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Arber,
> 
> I am taking the same approach, I will design a 'generic' controller board that can drop onto an interface board. Or be connected using a ribbon cable, depends on what socket/header you solder onto the board.
> 
> ...


Tom do you use voltage sensing with Lebowski? As i understand that would remove isolation. Bas does not recommend it. I will use arduino to sense preset voltage and trigger DC switch, power reduction or PWM stop etc...
How do you intend to observe temperature of IGBTs? Is there an algoritm with Lebowski brain or is it just digital safety? Are sensors inside IGBTs digital? That we could use then...

EDIT: Furthermore i propose that you test aux inverter with your remy motor. You could limit aux Lebowski to less than 3kW or 10A. I think you should test it with some load. I am sure that small inverter can survive that. 
You could simply desolder the PCB to see the rating on the chip. But you would risk damaging the PCB.... In any case it was meant to be sacrified for knowledge. 

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok i sent interface board to manufacture. 
I will be getting 5 pieces back.

Idea here is that i use Johannes master board to control precharge and DC contactor and of course the start pin. That way i dont need other controller chips in case i use only one motor. 

However in case of multiple motors i prepared interface through Arduino that would control generator and compressor throttle action. That way one could have one inverter to drive primary motor and rest would be slaved to Arduino. They would be turned on by a switch from inside car. 
AC would simply be controlled by internal AC controller that used to trigger compressor clutch. AC compressor than would work very much analog to old belt driven unit. I dont think actively varying RPM of compressor would bring any energy benefit, besides car already uses ON/OFF control. I just have to find how to fine tune it. 

Idea is to ramp up RPM of generator/compressor to some 5000RPM in say 3s and keep constant torque with max at 75%. That would not stress mechanical parts too much and allow gasoline genset to follow electric machine. When at borderline conditions arduino would have a hysteresis that would eliminate fast on/off state change.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Very nice work, how much do you think it will cost get the pcb made?

Have you found a good source of the connectors?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Very nice work, how much do you think it will cost get the pcb made?
> 
> Have you found a good source of the connectors?


Not exactly .
It is a long wait to get those connectors from Mouser. I see a best bet to gut the existing master board and get them from there. It is not that inverter will need another brain board after my surgery . 
But you have to be really carefull applying heat when removing connectors. They have a lot of gnd pins and you can burn yourself if you are not carefull.

EDIT: 5 boards were some 40€ with shipping, so lets say 10€ each board. I also ordered 5x Lebowski boards for about 5€ each. Those i made for DIP chips. It is simpler that way, 5V tolerance and supply... 
Then there are parts to populate. I will try to populate all and see then how much it was. My design uses Johannes board as mandatory. Everything else can be omitted. 
Later i can make another revision to use Arduno nano to observe precharge and actuate DC contactor and enable pins in case someone would want 3x Lebowski boards.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Surprise surprise! 
I got my boards today and i tried to fit the main board to inverter. Like a glove!!! I would have to cutoff a little on the side so cables will fit better.

Also i have Johannes board almost assembled. I may remove 5V regulator from Johannes board and only use one on the main board. What do you think, could two 5V buck regulators coexist? They would be supplied from the same 12V source and will have 5V as well as GND in common. Also there is hefty capacitance near both.

I also received my processor boards for lebowski design. It is simple sensorless design with a possible use of UVW hall sensors reserved.

I now have to decide how to fit everything together. If i try flush fit i maybe can get away with original aluminum cover. This is not good for experimenting though, since i may have to remove boards to try another approach.
Probably would be better to use fitted headers. Board could be dissassembled, but it would be too high to install stock cover. I will try to get something 3D printed...

Arduino nano at the top will be a throttle controller for AC and can also run generator or second motor.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Arber, very nice work. 

I am very glad I was able to help out get you to this stage. Now we got to find out if it actually works, but then again the pcb is practically a wiring loom 

Lets hope you can find a source for the remaining connectors, because I think the dual socket connector will be a pain to remove.

Just a thought on the lid, create a simple aluminium spacer ring and if you are done testing remove headers to use the pins to solder to the main board.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Arber, very nice work.
> 
> I am very glad I was able to help out get you to this stage. Now we got to find out if it actually works, but then again the pcb is practically a wiring loom
> 
> ...


Yes i think there is no way around it, Delco main board will be destroyed when pulling connectors off. But in reality that is about everything we need from it. I will try to develop procedure to get connectors off the board relatively easy. Probably will include heatgun, but no open fire.

I intend to try also Lebowski brain in solo config. This is where Arduino will come in use. To enable precharge. I dont want to just put the precharge on timer. HV has to be verified otherwise no DC contactor and no inverter operation. 

I am not sure if large discharge resistor will interfere with precharge. I will use 470R like before. Maybe 2 of them in parallel?

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I got connectors safely off the main board. 
That was more effort than expected. 4 layer board sinks heat and GND pins dont seem to budge. There is a danger you pull the rest of the connector off the board while one pin remains soldered still. I managed to get it off with 420°C soldering iron with fine point. I kept heating the pin from the reverse side with my point as well as heat station. At some point i pushed on the stub and kept pressure so the pin slided in and i rammed the point through the hole so connector fell out. Wheu!!!

I got the most problems from 18p gate connectors, rest was not problematic. Main board is scrap now though...

Another question to EEs here. 
What will happen if i use PSU on Johannes board and use another PSU with the same regulator and more caps? Basicaly it would be the same as one on the old boards. I would run them in paralel. Would it cause a problem? 
They are quite close together and i can use monster cap on 5V side. To smooth out ripple i can put in 100n film caps across all elcaps. 

Then there is arduino whith its own 5V/3V regulator onboard....


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I had some hairy moments yesterday. 
Just when i had everything set up i did a triple continuity check with my multimeter. I measured signals as well as power supply. Well darn... +5V plane was shorting to GND. How can that be, i checked just that once before.

I just installed Johannes board and short was coming from there. I did one thorough check and after some bickering i found Johannes made a mistake of not notifying me of different JP4 connector layout and i made a mistake of just copying the rev 2 board configuration, DOH. 

Now everything else fits. But nontheless i will make another interface revision ASAP. It seems a shame though to wait couple of weeks with inverter sitting there. So I decided to put some dual row headers on both sides and make connector that would connect correct pins together. It will take me couple of days to get everything, but in any case i need to get voltage sensor parts, so i think untill thursday or so...

I also did some beginner mistakes on Lebowski circuit, but nothing i cant repair.

I can see the problem of closing the lid after everything. It will require some 3D sculpturing, maybe 3D printing a flange...

EDIT:I was bored in the evening  so i went and milled the alu shield so that there is at least 2mm clearance from lowest part of PCB to alu shield. 
I intend to put thin isolated sheet under interface board to further separate the two. Caution! Alu shield is soft, but it is not perfectly straight. Mine was somewhat warped and i ended up milling too much. Not a problem though...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I got the sensor connector pinout now and i can see lights are on . Now lets see if someone is home...


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Very nice progress, hopefully you end up with something that others can use.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Very nice progress, hopefully you end up with something that others can use.


Lets see... hah! 
1. one guy suggested to use two ampera 6bridge modules on a single Leaf motor. Of course both should run off a single Lebowski brain. 

2. i got idea to put one Leaf motor in front and one Volvo hybrid 60kW motor on the rear axle 

3. I will try running two Emrax motors like on a front axle.

4. There is an option of one motor in the back and second motor paired with gas engine for range extender

All the while there would be AC compressor connected to the third inverter. And that is your work Tom, thanks. 
Do you think you could connect your small inverter to a Prius AC compressor and run it with port closed? That would tell us if small inverter can be used to run serious AC at all. 

tnx

Arber


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Nicely done. Will check that header when back home. Wasn't aware it changed.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Since more stuff went wrong on my inverter interface board i decided to step back and redesign new rev. PCB. 

So today i let myself go and measured Ampera inverter temp sensors. I heated it up to 70°C and let the pump slowly cool it down. 

Ampera 1/3 inverter temp sensor 
20°C ---- 5,9K
25°C ---- 4,3K
30°C ---- 3,9K
35°C ---- 3,2K
40°C ---- 2,7K
45°C ---- 2,3K
50°C ---- 2,0K
55°C ---- 1,8K
60°C ---- 1,5K
65°C ---- 1,3K
70°C ---- 1K

While i had heater ready i also measured my Leaf motor and its sensor. This one is not linear untill well into 50°C. Because my heater has bimetal thermostat i couldnt go beyond 70°C. Maybe later when i hack the heater to 100°C.

Leaf motor temp sensor
20°C ---- 18K
25°C ---- 17K
30°C ---- 16,4K
35°C ---- 14,2K
40°C ---- 12.3K
45°C ---- 11K
50°C ---- 9,2K
55°C ---- 8,3K
60°C ---- 7,6K
65°C ---- 7,2K
70°C ---- 6,6K

EDIT: I got IGBT datasheet very kindly from mr. John Kelly and there is good table for thermistor in the last page. Thank you.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Like i said procedure to remove connectors from Volt/Ampera main board:

1. Prepare solder station, use fairly pointed solder iron. set it to 350°C. 

2. Prepare one flat scredriver cca. 3mm across chisel.

3. Heat up the screws that keep connectors fixed from the underside. You can use heatgun, but i figured 350°C of soldering station quickly heats up screw. 

4. When solder inside screw is soft insert scredriver and try turning it. Dont overheat screw since you can melt plastic inside connector. 

5. When screwes are out prepare soldering station + vacuum pump.

6. Heat each pin from the underside and suck solder out of the hole. Make sure to force the pin to move in the hole after you suck solder out. 
Afterwards try moving connector a little to see which pins need more persuading . That way there will be less resistance when pulling connector out.
GND pin solder cannot be vacuumed off since GND plain is hidden inside PCB.

7. When only GND connection remains put more solder on that one and heat it up. When solder is soft push that pin in its hole (that is the reason for pointed soldering iron). 

When connector falls out the front you are done. Make sure you have lots of hands available. I needed at least 3 to succesfuly perform this. 

Enjoy!

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Tom

Yesterday i had a new development. I had made small interface boards that can connect Ampera inverter to Johannes main boards. They include signal inverting and current sensor connectors. But there is also inverter temp output. It is compact and suits well to single inverter use.

However i got OClimit error on trying to connect with inverter. When trying to find error i pulled driver cable and OClimit stopped. When i investigated i found out that pin i thought as driver Fault pin is automaticaly connected to GND. There is like 47R difference from Fault pin to sensor GND.

Do you know how Fault pin 4 (white wire) of driver connector is connected? Can you confirm it is a GND connection with some resistance on your inverter? 
Do you think i would need to connect a PNP transistor to sustain enable signal? Johannes has a Fault scheme so 12V signal is always present on working inverter. Similar to Lebowski Enable pin. If Fault pin is triggered 12V goes to GND and trigger OClimit error that shuts down PWM. 

Do you have an idea how to use your scheme with that signal connection? Probably this pin goes high when Fault condition, but i am not sure how to test it. 

tnx

EDIT: All posts from this thread are back!!!


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## nirodg (Jun 27, 2018)

Interesting post mate, any updates on it? 

Just got on my hand a Nissan 2012 drive unit and planning to reverse reverse engineering to partially/fully control it


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Here i am running small ACIM motor with Johannes inverter Rev 2 and my interface board. Voltage is 54V and i have it set to 20A due to small battery, Tom helped me to figure that Fault pin is always low when in nomal operation. When out of normal it goes float. 
I think i can use it as is with a single NPN transistor and invert signal.

I still have to prepare my Lebowski module so i can run PMSM motors. But this setup works very good now. I am happy with it as a proof of concept.

Also i have to setup a test for AC compressor with Lebowski at 360Vdc. 

Further info follows.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I have made a simple circuit with one BC547 transistor and pullup resistor.
Luckily i have built in space for one ATtiny whose function should be to observe third phase sensor and trigger overcurrent event if it happens. So i just used its holes and made some connections.

When i tried it everything worked on 54Vdc so i just unplugged battery and i got one pulse from Fault pin and then it returned to GND! Hm... It should be enough.

EDIT: Well DOH! We ran the motor at 200Vdc. Whenever we tried to run it we got OClimit thrown. In the end i tried to cut collector connection to Fault pin on brain board. That solved it. I could now run the motor. I am now thinking this Fault pin is not about Fault but about some signal that tells driver status to brain..

EDIT2: No that is not the case! I managed to connect my scope to inverter while driving the car. Fault signal stays low during operation. Problem is there is a 50us signal from power stage that jumps up and i guess it triggers transistor base. Also OClimit is thrown from current sensors since hash builds up 2x over the signal. 
I put 4K7 pulldown resistors to signal lines and it helps some, but i really think i will have to use cable shield for sensor cables.

EDIT3: I replaced 4K7 with 1K pullup resistor at NPN base.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I have done a current test of Aux inverter unit that Tom sent back to me. 

Since inside is a hall sensor, that means if i connect 12V H4 light bulb to positive contact and phase no1 and i apply [email protected] through reverse diode of transistor. That way i should get a measurement from sensor weather it is from 2.5V down or up. 
I got a variable PSU and fed a headlight lightbulb different voltage so i got confirmed 1A steps and measured results. Of course after 5A i had to connect the second bulb contact to get to 10A. I had ammeter connected trough whole test. 


U0A = 2,542V
U1A = 2.585V
U1,5A = 2.605V
U2A = 2.625V
U3A = 2.672V
U4A = 2.712V
U5A = 2.752V
U6A = 2.802V
U7A = 2.840V
U8A = 2.882V
U9A = 2.925V
U10A = 2.965V


Ergo i conclude that sensor is in fact Allegro ACS758LCB-050B of some variant. It shows a steady change of 40mV/1A as i change the load. I dont have courage to put more than 10A load to inverter since it has just a small alu plate to cool it. And at 10A it became noticably warm. Like body temperature. This means at pwm load inverter will heat up even more. But 10A will be more than enough to drive my compressor.


tnx Tom for your instructions. You can put this data to your file.


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## Tomdb (Jan 28, 2013)

Nice work Arber, we are slowly taming another inverter.

updated document attached


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

DOH! I am having trouble with EMI. There is 50us hard switching signal propagating through 12V and 5V logic supply. 
It looks exactly like on the photo. 
After some 150A phase current sensors trip the OClimit which would have to trigger only at 800Arms. 
I tried with 4K7 pulldown resistors on current sensor signal like Tom suggested, but return signal is still too high and triggers OClimit. 
Anyone have any ideas?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I had this exact problem with the Tesla boards. You need a simple RC filter on the line to soak up these spikes. Have a look in the logic section of this schematic :
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Tesla-Drive-Unit/blob/master/Tesla_V3 - Schematic.pdf


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I had this exact problem with the Tesla boards. You need a simple RC filter on the line to soak up these spikes. Have a look in the logic section of this schematic :
> https://github.com/damienmaguire/Tesla-Drive-Unit/blob/master/Tesla_V3 - Schematic.pdf


Tnx Damien

I have also seen you use additional diode on +12V input. Does it help any?
I will trace my main board where to put RC filter on. 

Someone suggested to also try one small toroid as common mode choke. 

A


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I always use a diode on automotive designs. Some moron will always connect the 12v battery backwards


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I always use a diode on automotive designs. Some moron will always connect the 12v battery backwards


OH! Right .

Yeah i thought RC filter allready is as good as it going to be. Seems like i have to think about that too. Tnx again, will just copy your schematic and see where it leeds me .


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hurah! I drove my car on the driveway with Ampera inverter at 360Vdc! I use 30kW ACIM motor in my car.
I used Johannes rev. 2 mainboard and a small interface PCB to collect driver and current sensor signals together. I tried to keep cables at minimum. 

I have made a quick surgery on my car, transplanting inverter and splicing signal cables to keep the same logic connector on the car. I used only essential wires and a single mode encoder, but i could drove uphill with handbrake on and no OClimit is tripped! I have OC set to 600A. I use deadtime 185pt best which is 3.6us. I measured in steady state with no HV connected, only signals. 
I also tried to vary deadtime from 2.5us to 5us and all i can notice is motor oscilating a bit at the same setting if i lengthen deadtime past 3us. My PWM runs at 8.8kHz. 

Can you tell me how much deadtime you used 

Ampera inverter is more noisy in comparison with my existing inverter, but that was expected since it is not optimised yet. I keep seeing dash lights flicker.


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## Nuts&Volts (Dec 20, 2011)

Nicely done! I’m just starting in on setting up a Lebowski chip to run this powerstage so very glad to hear you’re having success


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nuts&Volts said:


> Nicely done! I’m just starting in on setting up a Lebowski chip to run this powerstage so very glad to hear you’re having success
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have 5 triple lebowski boards made for Ampera/Volt inverter inverter ready here. Now that i proved the concept with ACIM motor i can move forward and install it and try to drive Leaf motor. 

If you need design files for Lebowski interface are here:
https://github.com/arber333/Ampera-Lebowski-interface

And sensor board interface tested with Johannes rev. 2 mainboard
https://github.com/arber333/Ampera-inverter-driver-interface

I still have some of sensor board interface PCBs left if anyone is interested in using Ampera inverter with Johannes controller. PM me.

I made theese with designspark PCB
More will follow...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tom thank you for the info, it seems results were truly best with deadtime setting 1.6us. It just didnt seem a good idea after my experience with Skyper drivers that need 3.3us deadtime.

From some application tutorial i got equasion td = ((toff - ton) + (driver propagation delay time)) * 1,2
So we can use worst case from datasheet td = ((2us - 0,9us) + (0,3us)) * 1,2 = 1,6us. That is with !presumption! drivers need 300ns relative delay... 1,2 being safety factor, so drivers should be quite fast... 

Well Avago M46 has propagation delay 200ns and if driverchip is very fast this could work.

Comments on how did you come to 1.6us?

EDIT: I also tried with 1.2us and it seems inverter doesnt mind it. I bet if i floor it i will trip desat though . Well also i tried 2.4us and 3.3us and further from 1.6us i went more oscillations i had in control loop. At 3.6us i couldnt even drive because of oscillations. Probably motor needed more boost voltage to overcome ohm losses. I just left it there and returned to 1.6us. 
At 1.6us deadtime and my previous settings ACIM motor was different beast with Ampera inverter than with my DIY inverter. More immediate power is available for takeoff.
Probably because of fast DC link cap. I only have 6600uF elcaps in mine. Ampera has 800uF of foil cap. That is 8000uF elcap equivalent. And it doesnt need snubbers too.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I managed to use ampera IGBT temp sensor. They are three built into each power section. I only need to use one from MGB.

I am thinking of using Arduino to sense other power sections temperature. That way i could stop PWM if temp goes out of limit.
IGBT datasheet says it can live up to 130deg C but i think i will only go as far as 85deg C.


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## Monzsta (Nov 21, 2017)

Hello. I'm the owner of a '13 Volt. I've been eyeballing ebay inverters looking to possibly modify mine. Here's the scoop. The more powerful Cadillac ELR uses the same part number inverter as my car. Only the programming has changed for more power.

I'm looking for an intact brain board I might be able to reverse engineer or JTAG to figure out how to get into it's programming.

I've also followed a few Volt battery builds and can't help but wonder if upgrading my Volt's conductors and mid pack fuse would yield any improvements. The bus bars between batteries is basically a flat strip on lugs, might be easy to double them up.

I'm pretty handy with a scope, volt meter and GM's own diagnostic tools. I don't have a CAN bus sniffer yet but I am working on it. If I can help anyone without sacrificing my own equipment I'd be glad to do so.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Monzsta said:


> Hello. I'm the owner of a '13 Volt. I've been eyeballing ebay inverters looking to possibly modify mine. Here's the scoop. The more powerful Cadillac ELR uses the same part number inverter as my car. Only the programming has changed for more power.
> 
> I'm looking for an intact brain board I might be able to reverse engineer or JTAG to figure out how to get into it's programming.
> 
> ...


Heh, your timing is great! I just got a broken Ampera here. I gutted the car and got DCDC, charger, inverter, AC compressor, heater, pumps and lots of hoses from it. I just need to get to battery and transmission. I need to lift a car up to reach battery. I will probably sell its engine and transmission later, since my Pug 406c has lower bonnet.

While i was happily dissassembling it i found out some thruths about it. Now DC cable from battery is 35mm2 shielded cable granted. Motor cables however are puny little 16mm2! Huh i am not sure how this works since Ampera has much more whomp that those little cables do her credit. On the outside they may look thick 50mm2 like with Leaf motor, on the inside i see a 16mm2 going from each contact crimp. Dont know if 35mm2 cables matter if you cant push more than 300Arms to motors. Hm.. if you can replace those cables maybe you could get more instant power from the motor. 
Current sensors are 700A device. Contact area is thick enough for 35mm2 lug and i threaded M6 threads into them easily. Constant power will still depend from programming im afraid.

EDIT: See pics attached... i put M8 stud in for comparison.

I intend to try the Leaf motor with Ampera inverter and i think this motor can eat full 600A inverter can give. I will also use 2x Ampera batteries so they should be able to sustain power. 

A


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## Monzsta (Nov 21, 2017)

arber333 said:


> Heh, your timing is great! I just got a broken Ampera here. I gutted the car and got DCDC, charger, inverter, AC compressor, heater, pumps and lots of hoses from it. I just need to get to battery and transmission. I need to lift a car up to reach battery. I will probably sell its engine and transmission later, since my Pug 406c has lower bonnet.
> 
> While i was happily dissassembling it i found out some thruths about it. Now DC cable from battery is 35mm2 shielded cable granted. Motor cables however are puny little 16mm2! Huh i am not sure how this works since Ampera has much more whomp that those little cables do her credit. On the outside they may look thick 50mm2 like with Leaf motor, on the inside i see a 16mm2 going from each contact crimp. Dont know if 35mm2 cables matter if you cant push more than 300Arms to motors. Hm.. if you can replace those cables maybe you could get more instant power from the motor.
> Current sensors are 700A device. Contact area is thick enough for 35mm2 lug and i threaded M6 threads into them easily. Constant power will still depend from programming im afraid.
> ...


I wonder if the inverter strategy is closed loop. If you can skew the current sensors so the upper end is deadened, (i.e. actual 200A would be "seen" as 150A) thus fooling it into supplying more current? I know there is another current sensor in the battery pack, I'd assume they'd have to all match.

Just thinking out loud.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Monzsta said:


> I wonder if the inverter strategy is closed loop. If you can skew the current sensors so the upper end is deadened, (i.e. actual 200A would be "seen" as 150A) thus fooling it into supplying more current? I know there is another current sensor in the battery pack, I'd assume they'd have to all match.
> 
> Just thinking out loud.



I am not sure if that would apply. Battery sensor is there to provide SOC measurement. It usually only shows DC current. Sensors inside inverter are full 700A capable and provide phase measurement. That there are 3x in one casing tells me they use FOC with 3rd phase correction. Not just 3rd phase calculation. This is totally closed loop. 



In my mind the only thing to do is to replace brainboard with DIY and try one motor at a time. I am not quite sure what transmission would do in manual mode though. I am pretty sure though MB is directly connected to wheel output. Everything behind it is coupled on additionally and on demand. So at least i can try if MB rotates driveshafts.


A


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

arber333 said:


> In my mind the only thing to do is to replace brainboard with DIY and try one motor at a time. I am not quite sure what transmission would do in manual mode though. I am pretty sure though MB is directly connected to wheel output. Everything behind it is coupled on additionally and on demand.


Not quite.

There are two generations of Volt/Ampera, with the second starting with the 2016 model year. They have two different generations of transaxle: 4ET50 for Gen1, and 5ET40 for Gen2. Both transaxles are input power-split systems (like a Toyota hybrid - such as a Prius - but not of the same configuration) with some added clutches to enable additional modes.

In both generations, neither MG-A nor MB-B is ever coupled directly to the output. In a 4ET50, if mechanically connected at all, it is through a planetary gearset: MG-A (when connected) drives the ring gear; MG-B (which is always connected) drives the sun gear; and the output to the differential is from the planet carrier.

Clutches enable multiple operating modes (of the 4ET50):

one-motor electric: ring gear is locked, MG-B drives vehicle through planetary gear set
two-motor electric: MG-A drives ring gear, MG-B drives sun gear, planetary gears mix outputs and both motor-generators are managed to reach desired engine speed
series hybrid: engine drives MG-A, MG-A decoupled from gears, ring gear is locked, MG-B drives vehicle through planetary gear set
power-split hybrid: engine coupled to MG-A, both drive ring gear, MG-B drives sun gear, planetary gears mix outputs and both motor-generators are managed to reach desired engine speed

The second generation's 5ET40 is more complex, with two planetary gear sets and five operating modes.

So if you want to use a Volt/Ampera transaxle as an electric-only drive unit, you need to decide which motor or motors you are using (presumably both), engage the correct clutches, and drive both motors at suitable speeds (and you need to decide what those are). If you engage all of the clutches, it will be locked up and not turn. Even if you want to use only MG-B, you need to decouple MG-A and lock the ring gear (with a different clutch) to get drive to the wheels.

I found this to be an interesting description of transitioning through a specific set of operating conditions in the first gen Volt:
Watching the Volt’s 4ET50 transmission shift gears in extended-range mode

These are informative descriptions of operating modes for the second generation's 5ET40 (but I assume you are working with the earlier 4ET50 so this wouldn't apply):
Gen 2 Volt Transmission Operating Modes Explained
2016 Chevrolet Volt Powertrain: How It Works In Electric, Hybrid Modes

Either of these descriptions could have errors; the authoritative source would be GM, in either technical manuals or technical papers such as these (which are only available by purchase from SAE):

The Voltec 4ET50 Electric Drive System 2011-01-0355
The GM “Voltec” 4ET50 Multi-Mode Electric Transaxle 2011-01-0887
The Next Generation “Voltec” Extended Range EV Propulsion System 2015-01-1152
Just put "voltec" in the search bar on the SAE site for lots of material, some of which are freely available articles (but those generally don't have detailed operating mode descriptions).


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

WOW! @brian_ this is something. I didnt expect it to be so complicated however. 
It is true, i toyed with using 4ET50 transmission directly with engaged MGB with other drives unplugged. While this would give me top speed 120km/h i would use Lebowski brain with 25% field weakening to get to 150km/h. That would be plenty enough for me. 

Is there any data about MGB and MGA pole count and resolver/encoder wiring? For starters where exactly are wires to resolver interface?

tnx


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

arber333 said:


> WOW! @brian_ this is something. I didnt expect it to be so complicated however.


The first generation transaxle (4ET50) really doesn't have a lot of parts, compared to a conventional automatic transmission, but operation can still be difficult to follow, and it's still more complex (due to the added clutches) than a Prius transaxle.



arber333 said:


> It is true, i toyed with using 4ET50 transmission directly with engaged MGB with other drives unplugged. While this would give me top speed 120km/h i would use Lebowski brain with 25% field weakening to get to 150km/h. That would be plenty enough for me.


Although this means wasting the MG-A (it's just ballast along for the ride), it makes some sense, since MG-B is much larger than MG-A in the 4ET50. You need the MG-A clutch disengaged and ring gear grounding clutch engaged for this to drive the car.

You certainly wouldn't want to run only one motor in the later 5ET40 transaxle, since the two motor-generators are the same size.



arber333 said:


> Is there any data about MGB and MGA pole count and resolver/encoder wiring? For starters where exactly are wires to resolver interface?


I don't have that level of detail. Motor design information is probably all available in GM technical papers, but most of those would need to be purchased. Wiring details might be in Volt/Ampera service manuals; you can buy temporary online access to those from commercial services such as ALLDATAdiy

Just be sure that you get the right generation: while some basic concepts are the same, almost every detail of the 4ET50 and 5ET40 transaxles are different, including motor sizes and mechanical configuration.

There is a long tear-down video available:
Chevrolet Volt 4ET50 Transaxle Components and Operation (2011-2015)
I don't know if this gets into either motor details or encoder wiring, but for someone who owns this transaxle it's probably worth watching (and reading the attached comments about possible errors in the explanation). If nothing else, it shows an extraordinarily clean and well-labelled set of components and how they fit together.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes, Mr. Kelly kindly provided IGBT datasheet for me to adapt Ampera inverter thermistor to Johannes code. Also that datasheet confirmed deadtime setting used be TomDB. 

It would be nice to know MGA or MGB pole count. We could drive it sensorless with Lebowski inverter... 
EDIT: Oh wait, Mr. Kelly did tell me in a mail they are both 8 pole motors. I did a teeth count on a photo of MGA stator and it is 24/3 = 8. Since it should rotate beyond 6000rpm i think this is correct. 


A


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## Monzsta (Nov 21, 2017)

arber333 said:


> Yes, Mr. Kelly kindly provided IGBT datasheet for me to adapt Ampera inverter thermistor to Johannes code. Also that datasheet confirmed deadtime setting used be TomDB.
> 
> It would be nice to know MGA or MGB pole count. We could drive it sensorless with Lebowski inverter...
> EDIT: Oh wait, Mr. Kelly did tell me in a mail they are both 8 pole motors. I did a tooth count on a photo of MGA stator and it is 24/3 = 8. Since it should rotate beyond 6000rpm i think this is correct.
> ...


I thought I read somewhere that at top speed (101 mph) motor b is over 9,000 rpm. I'll have to go look.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Monzsta said:


> I thought I read somewhere that at top speed (101 mph) motor b is over 9,000 rpm. I'll have to go look.


Well Ampera does not go beyond 100mph. And at 70mph MGB starts to reduce rpm and couples MGA to rotate in reverse thus increasing rpm span on driveshafts. This is felt as a short lack of power with immediate acceleration beyond 70mph. It is no use to drive so fast anyways. Ungodly drag together with wind noise makes this experience undisirable.


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## Monzsta (Nov 21, 2017)

arber333 said:


> Well Ampera does not go beyond 100mph. And at 70mph MGB starts to reduce rpm and couples MGA to rotate in reverse thus increasing rpm span on driveshafts. This is felt as a short lack of power with immediate acceleration beyond 70mph. It is no use to drive so fast anyways. Ungodly drag together with wind noise makes this experience undisirable.


It depends on throttle position. At WOT it stays in one motor mode. If you're cruising, it'll shift into blended motor configuration. I hate the lag when shifting, it's caught me out with no acceleration at some critical times like merging onto a fast highway from an onramp with a tight turn.

The programmers should have worked a little more to reduce the shift time, and should only allow single motor in Sport mode where, presumably you don't care about giving up a few miles of range.

Here's an interesting video that visually illustrates what happens and when with numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6ssU278Uk0


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## brstina (Oct 3, 2018)

I'm following your progress with interest. I was wondering if you could tell what is max input voltage you could supply to volt inverter. I have seen that IGBTs are rated at 650V, but I would expect that you would wanna throttle down some.

Thanks


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

brstina said:


> I'm following your progress with interest. I was wondering if you could tell what is max input voltage you could supply to volt inverter. I have seen that IGBTs are rated at 650V, but I would expect that you would wanna throttle down some.
> 
> Thanks


RoT for IGBTs is not to exceed 60% of design voltage. There has to be some buffer left for sudden spikes and other transients. 
I would say not spent much time over 420Vdc rail with active PWM. I am sure it would work at 500Vdc, but for how long?

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I set up my board with Johannes inverter brain and my interface for Ampera and i tried to rotate Leaf motor with 60Vdc. Test went good. 
I am using resolver circuit, but could just as well use ABZ encoder.
Now i wired Ampera battery of 360Vdc. I am testing this setup now. 
Also my friend wired his inverter at 200Vdc. I will test both configuration. 
Todays test went on incredibly good. 
I changed phase wires and got a bang from the motor and then i also swaped the cos resolver wires. 
I managed to spun the motor, but only after i set up boost of 12000 and went to offset 32000. Offset is dependent on individual motor. Max value is 65000 or theroff. 
I then tried multiple offset settings and it seemed that motor could spin faster the more we were closing to 38000. Finally i tried 40000, but motor would rumble when turning and used too much amps.
At 38000 however motor would spin to 7000rpm at 200Vdc! Even better at 39000 motor would go towards 8000rpm, but with pron ounced roughness.
Then i took shots of RPM and freq at different settings. Also i took some shots of current paramters

With 40000 offset it seemed some smoke came from the hood! We stopped and investigated. Nothing seemed broken so we went for a drive test. 
We tried to start the car and drive it from the shop... the car went backwards!!!! We were turning transmission 8000rpm in reverse. Obviously bearing lubrication system wasnt made for fast rearwards turning. I am still surprised how the smoke lifted from under the hood...
How is it possible to turn backwards since we changed phase cables since last time car was going backwards? We turned motor at first with 27000 and it was very jumpy there. But it turned itself forwards with a car surging a bit then OClimit tripped. This was in the afternoon, before the nice frames. Changing cables wouldntz work.
I have OClimit at 600A and tonight it tripped many times....

Just now i tried again on my inverter with 360Vdc and offset 38000. I noticed i got correct rotation, but only about 1000rpm. Then i went to 28000 and motor went wild! I got 8Krpm, but it should give more proportionaly to voltage increase. Leaf gearbox is very quiet one. You almost dont hear the gears.
I did change boost setting from 8000 to 12000 to 25000 in the end. Each time i got to more RPM, but i also tripped OClimit when i reduced throttle. I did set 100A for regen limit though.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I have made a new brain board for Volt/Ampera inverter. This time i tried to run Leaf motor with Lebowski brain.
Board is made to test sensorless application with addition of 3x hall sensors for motor assisted start up to some 500rpm. 
I am now able to get a fairly good start from spinning motor up to 9800rpm. Problem is from 0 to some 200rpm. I have to use hall sensors to assist motor to start. https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/05/single-lebowski-ampera-inverter/

I had immediate success with Arlos settings, thanks for settings... 
Next i had some problems with motor conking and irregular running at low rpm. That is sensorless still. I experiemnted with the board and found out a disturbing thing. 
A bolt from one of the phase cables was touching a fitting inside inverter box. I had to redrill my phase hole so i gave it some more clearance. Those EMI went away now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9ziVQph9QE&t=101s

I installed 3x hall sensors onto winding above rotor. https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/07/3x-hall-sensors/
I made a jig out of old PCB and soldered cables and made wiring just long enough to insert sensors in 60deg pattern. I calculated it according to this procedure. 
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=84112&hilit=hall+sensors

Now other EMI appeared?! When i connected motor case with inverter case my controller went out or froze. 
Finally i traced this to a lack of 100nF decoupling cap on reset pin. When i added that one everything went normal like magic! Thanks for that again Arlo.

Now i must say motor runs perfectly with sensors. A little less perfect in assisted sensorless, and a bit wonky in sensorless. I can reach 10000rpm with some weakening enabled. 
Big thing to have good feel of is acceleration limiter. This now allows me to nominaly run unloaded motor to 10Krpm whereas before it went into thrashing and banging...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hurah! The car drives with Volt Lebowski inverter without a hitch! 
Thank youTomDB, Bas and thank you Arlo!

I had to revisit some of the FOC settings and slowly increased resistance value untill at 48mohm the motor took off into a steep hill without shaking or hesitation. I use 178uH inductance also. Car felt superb to drive and there was no power loss uphill. 
Also i changed regen ramp to range from 400erpm to 3000erpm. 
Best results i got when i recalibrated sensors and immediately reved the motor and used setup button to gather at least 10 samples. My offset was then at 0deg with spread of 2deg. This really helped with smooth driving. I am now using RLS magnet on end of shaft and their RMB28U8 encoder chip to output UVW signal for controler.

I also changed deadtime. It seems it interfered with FOC calibration. I used 2.1us and in the end 3.1us.

Transmission shifting required me to take regen to 0 and then motor allowed to engage synchros. Therefore i will not pull both throttles to GND, but instead i will just pull down the regen signal. 

This is the capture from controller. We use 200Vdc with 150Ah Kokam cells capable of 3C discharge nominaly and 5C max.

version:2A1_
0x019A	0xE000	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x0007	0xFFFA	0x4000	0x0006
0x5C00	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0110	0x045F	0x0117	0x0400	0x0400	0x000E	0xFFDB	0x48EF
0xFFE2	0x42AB	0xFFFF	0x0BBF	0x00DA	0x01F4	0x02EF	0x08DF
0x02A9	0xFFFF	0x01E1	0x0012	0x0192	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0x0BC0	0x1AD0	0x7FBC	0x7D2E	0x0030	0x795E	0x0000
0x07AE	0x0018	0x0000	0x01E0	0xFFFF	0xF852	0xFFE8	0x0000
0xFE20	0x0000	0x4CCD	0x0018	0x0000	0x01E0	0xFFFF	0xB333
0xFFE8	0x0000	0xFE20	0x06AD	0x02BC	0x0064	0x0019	0x2EF3
0xFF00	0xF437	0x9F37	0xC937	0x4937	0x1F37	0x7437	0xFF00
0x0E49	0x00CC	0x0087	0x0012	0x01C6	0x008B	0x0000	0x0577
0x02BB	0x03EE	0x03EE	0x03F0	0x09C3	0x1194	0x0097	0x04E0
0x0007	0x0D5A	0xFFC4	0x0BBF	0x1333	0x0000	0x0000	0xF999
0x0000	0x0000	0x010D	0x01A1	0x0043	0x03BC	0x15DD	0x0117
0x1066	0x045F	0x04B0	0x0258	0x0064	0x885C	0x115C	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0x0003	0x0000	0x0078	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFFD	0x0000
0xFF88	0x0000	0x0000	0x0005	0x0000	0x0064	0xFFFB	0x0000
0xFF9C	0x000C	0x0000	0x00F0	0xFFF4	0x0000	0xFF10	0x02D9
0x0221	0x0577	0x005B	0x0186	0x0221	0x0036	0x0010	0x0E10
0x88B8	0x03B6	0x6000	0x068F	0x0088	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF
0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0xFFFF	0x0000	0x1CCA	0x0005
0x8000	0x07B2	0x0000	0x7F80	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0xFFDB	0x48EF	0xFFE1	0x7773
0x07B2	0x0000	0x1000	0x612E	0x0000	0x7F80	0x0045	0x033D
0x010C	0x7FBD	0x0494	0x0000	0x04EA	0x04EF	0xFFDB	0x48EF
0xFFE1	0x7773	0x01B3	0x0001	0x8000	0x099E	0x0000	0x0000
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0xFFDB	0x48EF	0xFFE1	0x7773	0x099E	0x0000	0x3000	0x6417
0x0000	0x7F80	0x001A	0x01F9	0x0102	0x5D6A	0x01FC	0x00CB
0x0000	0xFFEF	0xFFDB	0x48EF	0xFFE1	0x7773	0x263E	0x0001
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000
0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0000	0x0324	0x0648	0x096A
0x0C8C	0x0FAB	0x12C8	0x15E2	0x18F9	0x1C0B	0x1F1A	0x2223
0x2528	0x2826	0x2B1F	0x2E11	0x30FB	0x33DF	0x36BA	0x398C
0x3C56	0x3F17	0x41CE	0x447A	0x471C	0x49B4	0x4C3F	0x4EBF
0x5133	0x539B	0x55F5	0x5842	*


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi TomDB

This evening i successfuly ran Remy HVH250 motor in sensorless mode. It started with 378Vdc beautifuly with only a little shaking back. 
Of course FOC measurement of Ri was way off. I used inductance 667uH and resistance 50mohm. I see the same trend also with Leaf motor. I set Ri about 3x of measured value.
See settings in file.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hm... i was notified of this video. Some Ukranian guys made a Peugeot van with Leaf motor and Volt inverter with outputs in paralell! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=_nF5oRZclFE

I would like to do the same to my Pug .


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## Grigoriy Kuzmuk (Jun 21, 2018)

I am the one who made this controller and this electric car.This is one of my old projects. The axles were broken twice and the gearbox was broken.🙂


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## damian.lo (Apr 22, 2018)

Hello,


Glad to see You here. Also I was wondering how did You do this. Have You maybe some more info about this? I'm (I think more of us) very interested to do the same like You did so maybe You can share some more info? Also my car is waiting to put something inside. Already I have gearbox + Leaf motor joined into small BMW.


Regards,
damian.lo


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Grigoriy Kuzmuk said:


> I am the one who made this controller and this electric car.This is one of my old projects. The axles were broken twice and the gearbox was broken.🙂


Really! Thanks for that video. I would much like to make a car start fast like this. My driveshafts are like 40mm tubes i hope they will hold. Which gearbox did you break? The original Pugs or the Leaf one? 

I can see you are using Volt inverter. Can you share what controller brain are you using to drive both sides of it? Or are you using just the Volt case and the whole power section is your product?
My plan is also to use at least one side of Volt inverter to drive a Leaf motor with either Lebowski or Johannes brain.
Thanks for your info.

Arber


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi all...

I must report that we recently toasted a Volt inverter while driving uphill like every day . Up to now it seemed this inverter is pretty much bulletproof with all the protections etc...
When i investigated and found the root cause i feel that i have to report it here. 
The source of the bang was a M6 stud on phase cable connection. I bored the contacts to accept M6 bolts to easier connect to motor. While the contact itself was good i found that underneath bolt there was an alu spar inside plastic carrier that was there to carry torque from the case bolts when tightened. This spar extended through plastic and was not evident when i bored plastic originaly and inspected for continuity. It seemed after under vibration bolt pushed against aluminum inside plastic and phase touched the case and car chassis ----> instant boom!

So the moral here is to rebore those holes from the back and cleare all plastic from the contacts at least 2mm around the threads. I will show some photos when i return home...


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Was anyone aware that the Chevy Spark EV uses the same IGBT, HV, and control board? Seems like Chevy saved some cost on development by simply populating half of the boards.

I'm currently in the process of using this as a DC controller for my Fiesta.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hah! It seems that every other thing is the same. Case is the same, i expect also main cap. 
What about small 3phase inverter for aux oil pump? Is the connector there or is the hole covered up?

Be carefull if you make holes in motor contact material. There is alu spar under plastic support that is connected to metal case. If not carefull this could really ruin your day.


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Thanks for the warning. I saw your previous post about that. I'll try to use short bolts and mind the plastic bits. I think I'm going to do what you did and just drill a hole in those input terminals. How did you manage to connect to the output.

The cap under the IGBT is a 850uF and there is also the small driver underneath as well. I actually hope to use that on a dryer motor just to play with. Pictures attached.

One thing I have noticed on this is a lack of snubber diode and any high frequency caps. Is this not a worry with the type of cap they used?

I am going to use the IGBT and the factory HV board as a DC motor controller and bridge the three IGBT to a common output. I interpreted the documentation that Tom posted as the inputs of the HV control board are pulled high internally, so pull them low to activate the side of the three phase half bridge you want. As I'm DC, I'll be pulling the low side half low via PWM to spin my DC motor. Since I will be using the factory controller on the factory IGBT, everything should be ideal and perfect (I'll post what went wrong later).

The IGBT is 650A per phase, or 1950A total for all three. I'll run it under 1000A at 240VDC (320A is my battery 5C rate so I'll turn it up from there to see what the batteries do). A bit surprising since the three phase 650A DC rating would only be 1125A (650A * sqrt 3), so conservatively 500A.

DC motors > AC motors for a given three phase half bridge?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Wow! Nice. Well i cant use DC motors here in Slovenia. And i think inverter is too elaborate to be used as only a halfh bridge chopper .

This means you can use small power stage to drive AC compressor. I am working on small control board to fit on the far left side of inverter and you can use original connector. This controller works with Leaf compressor. I tried on desk. Its just i dont know the limits of transistors. So i limit myself to 10A. 
It is run by Lebowski brain with sensorless mode. This has to be run by another controller like Arduino by changing throttle value etc... Alternatively it has CAN bus on board so you could command throttle with standoff CAN controler. 

I dont recommend you just use small bolts. This was just the thing that made me complacent. Since bolt was short i thought "it is ok to just drill through plastic". Well i found out that somewhere INSIDE plastic fitting was hidden alu spar that was touching the casing. Please take the current sensors assembly out and drill from front by 5mm and then redrill from the back through plastic material with 8mm drill. At last tap threads into brass from front. 

If you want i can send you one board. PM me.


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Thanks again for the advice. I'll take everything apart and double check. I'll mod the output connector plate and probably cut out the plastic behind it to make sure I don't short anywhere. As I'm combining the outputs, maybe I can screw on a plate to catch all the outputs. I'll post up some pics as I progress.

That board you have controls the igbt? Or does it interface to the existing clutch controller?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

e^2 said:


> Thanks again for the advice. I'll take everything apart and double check. I'll mod the output connector plate and probably cut out the plastic behind it to make sure I don't short anywhere. As I'm combining the outputs, maybe I can screw on a plate to catch all the outputs. I'll post up some pics as I progress.
> 
> That board you have controls the igbt? Or does it interface to the existing clutch controller?


Nope, i took everything out as control board is concerned. This PCB has Lebowski control section on it, CAN bus chip and analog lines. Driver outputs are 5V direct connections. small IGBT board has allegro current sensors on it and interfacing them is easy. 

I still have some problems with compressor starting under load. I may take the stator out and put some hall sensors in just so it starts reliably every time. Still Bas tells me i should tune out the motor first.


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Would there be better luck using the factory board and control interface?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Original interface was designed to only run Aux pump only when car was stationary. When driving off mechanical pum took over. Now we would use the same inverter drive to run AC compressor pretty much on permannent basis. I am not sure, but i think ECU was requesting to run the pump over CAN and inverter obliged. I think it was strictly on and off, no power variation.

We would be better off with own control i think.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Assembled board in Volt inverter with main Lebowski controller.
You can see the voltage/precharge sensing section, contactor control relays, arduino that controls that part and Lebowski chip. 

On the left You have another Lebowski chip in control of the AC compressor drive. I designed both hard lines for throttle response as well as CAN controls. In the end i think i will use CAN lines to start AC compressor from the cabin controls.
Edit: you may notice black chip just after white input connectors. This is inverter chip SN74LS06 which changes polarity of signals and shifts voltage level so i can use +12V signals with this 5V board without damaging it.


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## ConversionVirgin (Dec 16, 2019)

Hey I'm new to the forum and just picked a wrecked spark. I'm hoping to swap the battery and everything else into a BRZ. After seeing the post about spark and volt being the same, is this something you'd be able to build a controller for? Would this be the best way to get more power to the motor than factory.

Not trying to hijack your thread sorry just closest to what I'm looking for
In this video https://youtu.be/dM6s3sLaTqE?t=360 he says each igbt module can hold 1000 amps @650v (x2 involt?). Have you seen that?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi

I am not sure about max power for the Spark motor. I noticed Volt motors have really thin wires. Maybe 16mm2 thick. That way we can effectively get 350A per phase, maybe 400A into motor. If you would change the wires and use higher battery voltage you could do it. Motor power limit is used to protect battery from overcurrent.

IGBT module is capable to provide 1200A for 1ms but 600A for prolonged time. Mind you those are max ratings, therefore you want to reduce actual output by at least 20%. See datasheet. https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1011649&postcount=78
There are also thermistors inside. 

I tested torque control with Leaf motor as well as Emrax 80kW motor and Remy HVH250 motor. Inverter most certainly works. Since controls are by 5V interface usual uC would work with it. 
I succesfuly used Johannes STM32 chip with ACIM motors and Lebowski dsPIC30F4011 chip with PMSM. 
I am now working on the contactor and precharge interface. I want everything to be a compact product even in the case i have to transfer design to Prius gen 3 inverter. 
What would be the motor of your choice?

If you like i can build you one board to interface the inverter main IGBT.
PM me for details.


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## ConversionVirgin (Dec 16, 2019)

arber333 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am not sure about max power for the Spark motor. I noticed Volt motors have really thin wires. Maybe 16mm2 thick. That way we can effectively get 350A per phase, maybe 400A into motor. If you would change the wires and use higher battery voltage you could do it. Motor power limit is used to protect battery from overcurrent.
> 
> ...


 thanks for the reply I sent you a pm. The goal is to have two spark motors without transmission directly connected to a cv for each in the rear of a subaru brz. Using the spark battery or two of them and a volt inverter. Trying to see if this will be feasible. The spark motor makes 400ftlbs at the shaft so if I could join two together or one for each rear wheel it would make a fun daily or drift car lol. I just saw Damian video today and looks like he found a source to build his boards after he designs them online. I dont know if this is something that would make things easier for you as well. Thanks for all the info here. Looking forward to more


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

ConversionVirgin said:


> thanks for the reply I sent you a pm. The goal is to have two spark motors without transmission directly connected to a cv for each in the rear of a subaru brz. Using the spark battery or two of them and a volt inverter. Trying to see if this will be feasible. The spark motor makes 400ftlbs at the shaft so if I could join two together or one for each rear wheel it would make a fun daily or drift car lol. I just saw Damian video today and looks like he found a source to build his boards after he designs them online. I dont know if this is something that would make things easier for you as well. Thanks for all the info here. Looking forward to more


Well i make mixed DIP/SMD boards to the size of 0805 elements. Therefore they can be set/repaired by hand if needed. I use 2 sided boards. Price is no different if i use bottom stencil or not. so i prefer to use decoupling capacitors and pulldown resistors on the lower GND side. I havent had a real issue of pass through EMI that i didnt cause myself.

Now what kind of monster of motor you have? 400ftlb is 500Nm of torque! Usualy motor is 8pole and can spin to 10000rpm with 200Nm starting torque. In your case it goes only to 5000rpm and has 2x torque. I assume motor would be 12pole or even 16 pole design. Can you share some info on the motor assembly part number?

https://insideevs.com/news/324926/will-the-gen-2-volt-use-the-spark-ev-traction-motor-design/ 
I see the gearbox ratio is 3.87:1; this would imply torque to wheels in the range of 2000Nm! 

If you would only use the motors you would get 500Nm + 500Nm torque for starting. 800Nm on the axle is considered minimum to take off with a 1t car. You would have really lame starts. 

Again i recommend you keep both axles and change the wheel receptacles on the RWD/FWD sides to accept new axles. That way you would have 4WD and spread 4000Nm t oall of your wheels. Lebowski drive can extend the RPM by field weakening and adding current to advance/reduce the field of the stator.

What is the battery rating for your setup? 
Volt Gen1 cells should handle 400A current draw, that would be 140kW. Your setup would show 85kW + 85KW = 170kW. You would have to reduce power to each motor. I would recommend reducing RWD to 240A and FWD to 160A. 
Starting torque would not be impaired, you would protect battery at the higher RPM range.


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## ConversionVirgin (Dec 16, 2019)

I will start another thread as well with the goal of project and progress, but to summarize. I have a salvage 2014 Spark with DC fast charging. So 21kwh battery(pouch cell) and 400ftlb motor connected to factory trans. As you probably know the spark runs out of power fast once over 50mph and greater. This is going in a BRZ /frs unless it makes more sense to put another motor in rear of spark. I was hoping if i used two motors (in just the rear) without the transmission that the extra motor would take care of lack of gearing and move my efficiency to higher speeds. I would love to build the car for time attack (road course) racing. I didn't want to do AWD because I plan to put the batteries under the hood(possibly more behind driver and pass seat and switch to a tesla rear drive unit(model 3) later when they are morte plentiful and cheaper. The other option is just get the spark motor and trans in the rear of the brz and swap that later but I hate having to run trans coolr line to the back so I'd have to maybe put a small radiator in the rear that could catch air and cool the trans. The spark also has the charging/bat loop connected to the ac as well, so maybe I could incorporate that into something else to provide additional cooling for road racing. The BRZ uses canbus gauges so I thought I may even be able to use factory gauges for some parameters.

The hope is that I could use the spark or volt inverter and as much of the spark equipment as possible (charger, dc to dc, etc..) in the BRZ and later I would only have to fabricate the model 3 drive unit in and hopefully just change software on controller.

Here's a little info with a chart of the spark efficiency range https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/09/f18/fy_2014_vto_amr_apeem_overview-final_version.pdf


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomdb said:


> Took one just now.
> 
> FE 009
> 
> ...


Well since i obviously busted some of my drivers in my Volt inverter i decided to search for them. 
I found out they are Fuji Electric Fi009
https://www.fujielectric.com/company/tech/pdf/55-02/FER-55-2-046-2009.pdf

I cant find its datasheet. Probably it is proprietary...
Anyone has more info?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

It has been some time and i was developing a controler for both power stages of Ampera/Volt inverter. 
Both sides are used to get 1000Arms to the motor. 
25mm2 cables can be used out of the current sensors and when they come together Leaf motor uses 50mm2 phase cables. Perfect!
Brain is Johannes controler. It works with resolver interface to sense rotor position. Speeds up to 10000rpm are achievable. 

Out of experience i use inverter chip SN74LS06 that inverts positive signals from Olimex STM32 chip and makes them active low. 

I also designed a control for third power stage that would be driving aux oil pump inside Ampera transmission. Now it will drive AC compressor for my car. I use Lebowski drive since it can run PM mpotors sensorless. 

For first run i use single side, but later i intend to couple both 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LokKaTmOCwc&t=2s


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Good job! So both igbt feeds the same motor?

I made some progress on my "inverter" with the downtime. Got my code working pretty good with some safety features. I need to add the igbt temp sensors into the code and get a more robust current sense code working.

Since this video I've taken it for a drive. I'll try to do a vid tonight of how it all looks.
https://youtu.be/o4XMwwV1ZGQ


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

e^2 said:


> Good job! So both igbt feeds the same motor?
> 
> I made some progress on my "inverter" with the downtime. Got my code working pretty good with some safety features. I need to add the igbt temp sensors into the code and get a more robust current sense code working.
> 
> ...


Nice DC application. How do you control current? Do you use feedback from original sensors *3?
If you used Volt inverrter you could get the second power stage to work also for double the power!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Since i was sucessful in running various motors with this PCB iteration i am publishing it in Design spark format. Some files on connectors and chips also.

https://github.com/arber333/Johannes-controler-Volt-Ampera-DUAL-IGBT-board


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

It is a work in progress.

I am using the factory current sensor but using just one output leg. Hoping I don't have a situation where the output phases are unbalanced too much, but I'm also watching pack current.

Currently having an issue with the Arduino hanging up. I think it might be noise and I've since grounded the case to 12V chassis ground. It is switching at 490 hz and it's so loud in the car.

Did you have this issue at all?


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Added the ground jumper but that didn't change my issue. Good thing to do anyway.

Turns out it was my code. I got stuck in a while loop to reduce the throttle but never went to go check the value again. Rookie mistake.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i have made it.

While i was trying to decypher Leaf AC compressor serial bus or whatever it uses i was getting nowhere. So i decided to just build me a compressor drive.
I will use Volt inverter, so inside is one Aux controler with enough power to drive compressor. It was originaly intended to run Aux hydraulic pump to keep transmission under pressure when car is stationary. When Tom and I inspected this drive we figured it has 50A sensors and while i was putting 10A load onto it it didnt get too warm. 

Now i have one Lebowski board inside connected to drive connector and Leaf compressor on the other side. I must say cables on that compressor are tiny. Just two strands of 0.20mm2 wire. I think max power on compressor is actually 10A.
Look at it running. Noisy boy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0WT1HOQl0

Also Lebowski measured motor parameters... 5100uH and 600mOhm per phase.
Soon i will get Prius compressor and will also try to run it.

Now what i need to develop is a CAN AC controller with some temp sensors and slow RPM ramp logic to simulate throttle ramp up. Also i will only use reset pin only to switch the drive ON. Rest I/Os are not needed it seems.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i have here Prius gen2 AC compressor. I love it. It is a simple motor on scroll compressor. It has exterior 3phase cables that one can connect to any inverter. I spent like 5 minutes on Lebowski inverter calibrating motor resistance and inductance. And it ran!

While i think other compressors are more powerfull, this one lends itself better to DIY use. 

Prius AC compressor Lebowski parameters: 
Motor Inductance: 2550uH
Motor phase resistance: 500mOhm 

Voltage used 360Vdc
Current set at 20Arms and max battery current 10A.


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

That's awesome to hear. I have one of those as well. You used the Lebowski controller directly on the igbt? Did you need to find a data sheet?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

e^2 said:


> That's awesome to hear. I have one of those as well. You used the Lebowski controller directly on the igbt? Did you need to find a data sheet?


Hah... i put it to the stake and burned it untill it spilled the details: 
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1017183&postcount=84

From then on i assumed it can carry 10A continuously and maybe 20A for short time. I then checked cables and i see 2 strands of 0.3mm2 cables. So 0.6mm2 in all.
EDIT: I mounted pipes on ports and plugged output pipe of compressor so it created pressure and measured load... 5A per phase max. I will observe this when i put it in the system and there is gas inside.
My assumption to use 3.1us deadtime also proved good. 
Also i saw here https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...346.html?&highlight=prius+compressor+inverter motor inside has 6 magnets and he claims is 3 pole. I am not so sure, but Lebowski brain does not care. It just works. Now i will have to be carefull about how much eRPM i assign to it but i think i will be OK with some 4 - 5K shaft RPM.

I also see motor from this compressor would be good for other applications. Maybe scooter motor or 3 wheeled ATV for my son .


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I am really happy! I got automatic AC start e.g. by AC clutch signal.

Like Lebowski stated i made simple voltage divider in front of throttle line. 10K/3K3 and i added 470uF cap across 3K3 resistor.
When i apply 13V to this line it makes 3V4 on divider, but cap charges it in about a second. This signal coupled with acceleration limiter causes AC compressor slowly to spool up and reach its working RPM. Voltage rise is slow enough to get it working reliably.
When i remove 13V signal motor spools down slowly and turns to standby.
I will experiment with it more and i think of calibrating throttle so it works up to 75%.

This will work with any AC system in a car, since you only need AC clutch command to start compressor and every car has this, even more elaborate automatic ACs.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yesterday was a good day! I got my Pug rolling with all support elements operational. I still see DCDC is overheating and i need to turn it around and provide some better 12V cooling fans. Maybe i will also need to provide fresh air to inside of trunk.

We got liftoff and i tried various throttle pedal settings with and without regen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVFfeTLZY84

I also found out the source of vibration. I didnt lock driveshaft bearing in place! Of course i didnt have the retaining plate since driveshafts were second hand. After a while i forgot about the fact RH shaft was only supported radially. I need to get a driveshaft bearing retainer to fix driveshaft in place. There is some wobbling in driveshaft when accelerating and regen and i am cautious because the bearing can be moved by hand.
I found online Nissan declares the retainer part 39776JD000 a consumable and to be replaced everytime driveshafts are taken off.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i found out what was bothering my Pug finally. It was not only a bearing support.
The left inside CV joint has a halfhsiezed bearing. In by itself i couldnt determine that since the wheels had so little resistance when lifted up. It was only when my friend an i tried to rotate both wheels simultaneously we noticed the LH side was grabbing the differential. I noticed a slight tick in the CV joint when turning outside of allignment. I guess this was something that was declaring itself before failure.
I will need to take the CV apart, inspect the bearings and the outer surface. Maybe it will be enough to just replace one bearing. If not i will need to change the whole Leaf CV bucket.


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## e^2 (Jul 22, 2017)

Guess I should post an update on mine.

The inverter has been working great on the DC motor. Looking to install the Leaf motor however. Was going to use the thunderstruck CAN unit but it is as expensive as going other routes.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a logic board for AC on a Leaf motor using this inverter for a novice? Was thinking of going OpenInverter but heard it is tricky to get going.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

e^2 said:


> Guess I should post an update on mine.
> 
> The inverter has been working great on the DC motor. Looking to install the Leaf motor however. Was going to use the thunderstruck CAN unit but it is as expensive as going other routes.
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion for a logic board for AC on a Leaf motor using this inverter for a novice? Was thinking of going OpenInverter but heard it is tricky to get going.


Well i am working on a replacement board for Volt inverter brain. You get to pull the main board out and just unsolder its connector headers. Then you solder them to your new board and populate the new brain board with components. Board has one main control chip which can control one or both IGBT sides of Volt inverter. Then i option a second aux controler which would drive A/C compressor. 
They are all smd elements but are in 0805 range so perfectly solderable by hand. If you want i can populate a board for you and send it to you for a fee. I am still working with resolver control. This brain takes only UVW signal so i need to convert resolver to that. On my car i managed with RLS mechanical interface instead of resolver. AC compressor drive

The other option is either my Openinverter rev2 board or JackBauers rev3 board. They are the same schematic, but JBs board is lower profile and you wouldnt need to make an insert for inverter case cover. Openinverter control is still a bit unrefined, but it is getting there. Big improvement is OEM resolver control onboard. Whatever resolver your motor uses Openinverter can deal with it...








Johannes FOC controler


It took me a little longer but i finished my version of Johannes FOC controler. It is based on Rev.2 board design. It has all usual I/Os. It uses 2 current sensors. to run either ACIM motor with si…




leafdriveblog.wordpress.com






VOLT/AMPERA inverter single controler dual IGBT drive - Page 4 - openinverter forum


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## Bakertw0 (Sep 9, 2020)

This is amazing work! I've been interested in modifying the chevy Volt for a good long while now. I bought one for Mom, and passed my 2014 onto my son as a first car after getting my model 3, but it was always a thought in my head about what the real limits of the inverter were considering what the battery was really capable of. I had attempted (extremely unsuccessfully) to modify the chevy ECU. My thought was to be able to disable the gas engine entirely so I could remove it, and convert the car to entirely electric. But the thought of using the components in an EV conversion escaped me because there was no external control for inverter that I was aware of. Also had no idea what the power levels really were. 

Again excellent work! Thank you so much for posting your work!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Bakertw0 said:


> This is amazing work! I've been interested in modifying the chevy Volt for a good long while now. I bought one for Mom, and passed my 2014 onto my son as a first car after getting my model 3, but it was always a thought in my head about what the real limits of the inverter were considering what the battery was really capable of. I had attempted (extremely unsuccessfully) to modify the chevy ECU. My thought was to be able to disable the gas engine entirely so I could remove it, and convert the car to entirely electric. But the thought of using the components in an EV conversion escaped me because there was no external control for inverter that I was aware of. Also had no idea what the power levels really were.
> 
> Again excellent work! Thank you so much for posting your work!


Now that is a guy after my thoughts! For some time now i am wondering if this EV conversion bussiness is not misunderstood. Sure nice old attractive car prefferably Aston Martin or Jaguar etc... combine nicely with latest Tesla LDU or Leaf inverter, but this is a lot of work. However what i am thinking now about the future of conversion is de-gasing true hybrid cars such as Lexus GS450h or Chevy Volt either generation. I am thinking of junking the engine and replacing the battery with high capacity one.
If you consider all engine support systems, exhaust and fuel system we can come at an interesting weight saving which could be used to fit more battery.
We would just have to replace the ECU with our design and tell it "dont you worry there is a lot of SOC left".


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## Bakertw0 (Sep 9, 2020)

yeah I saw alot of posts about teslonda where the volt battery pack was used, same with an s2000. And a few years ago my mothers car (2012 Volt) got the ice radiator damaged by some road debris and I started thinking about why not remove the gas engine entirely... The DC-DC, charger, and batteries have all been used but the inverter and motor didn't really see much use. Which I can understand that's an overly complicated design with the integrated motor gearbox with clutches. But, seeing this thread has revived my curiosity on the topic.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Bakertw0 said:


> yeah I saw alot of posts about teslonda where the volt battery pack was used, same with an s2000. And a few years ago my mothers car (2012 Volt) got the ice radiator damaged by some road debris and I started thinking about why not remove the gas engine entirely... The DC-DC, charger, and batteries have all been used but the inverter and motor didn't really see much use. Which I can understand that's an overly complicated design with the integrated motor gearbox with clutches. But, seeing this thread has revived my curiosity on the topic.


Hm... i am thinking first it would be good to have a programming dongle so you can reset faults .
1. You try to disconnect computer for the engine and listen to what CAN has to say. Then you connect it back and read CAN and compare msg for differences. I am quite sure disability to start engine would lead to car going to "turtle mode" for the last 5km or so. 

2. Maybe you could convince it there is not enough fuel in the tank and car wouldnt even try to start engine. 

3. Last option would be to insert "man in the middle" filter which would eat signals to the engine and spew out some engine condition that doesnt let it start. 

Main problems will be to gather all analog signals from motor, exhaust, intake etc... into digital enable signals.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well...
1. I fitted Prius AC compressor to my car and used Volt inverter 3rd power stage to start it sensorless into system under pressure. I managed to tune up Lebowski brain to start once out of 3 tries which is quite good. Also it would start the first time cold, but once compressor is running to stop it and restart it would require it cooled down before next start.

2. I inadvertently managed to find out the inverter phase current rating. It burned out at 35A phase at 360Vdc! Though it managed to stay alive for quite some time there it finally failed shorted and blew my 350A fuse! I need to make some changes....


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