# 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi All, 

*[Update 07/01/13]*: We have improved the design over the last few months, with beefier PCBs, better drive circuits etc. As a result, this is now a 12kW / 70A charger for under $1,000! Also, we now have an option for 100A output! Finally, a custom enclosure is now an option - professionally machined and powder-coated in awesome black matte finish to show off your charger. As always, you can get more info on the latest specs / build videos / etc at http://www.emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics. Now there are over 100 of these out there!


ORIGINAL POST BELOW:

Over the last few months, my team has developed a 10kW / 60A charger design that exceeds all known chargers available on the market today (that you can put into a vehicle, anyway) - both in power and features. We just hated to pay $4000 to be able to charge our conversions in less than 5 hours...

An incomplete run-down of the capabilities:
* 10kW rated power - tested to 15kW continuous with liquid cooling
* 110 / 220VAC, up to 400VDC input 
* up to 350VDC battery voltage (up to 425V with very minor modifications)
* fully PF corrected option available
* 144x144 color screen for controls & readout
* Output power control
* All battery types supported with micro-processor controlled charging regimes
* Integration features - BMS cut-off, End-of-charge signal
* Thermal protection
* Timer shutoff
* Compact design - latest units are packed into a 12x11x8-inch box (air cooled) or 10x8x7" for liquid-cooled
* User-programmable through a USB cable

We have made design fully open-source and available to all. So if you are so inclined, you can make it yourself for ~$900 all-in (including all the heatsinks, enclosure, etc, etc.).

So far (May 2011), we have made and installed 4 complete units and helped ~10 people to make their own builds. Our first unit was installed into the Fiat Conversion described at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/noob-starting-1977-fiat-124-spider-51822.html. It is charging our 110AH 200V LiFePo4 pack at 50A in ~2.5 hours. Max current tested is 65A at lower voltages (tested up to ~100V, I would imagine this would hold up to 144V or so). 

Update (August 2012): about 20 complete units installed, ~40 made from kits.

If you like, we can help you with PCBs, parts kits, assembled / tested boards, and fully assembled units. Again, details are at http://emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics.

I hope that this effort will make EV conversions a bit more affordable to people and we will have a modest contribution to getting more EVs on the roads! Please consider supporting it by letting us help you with building out your units.

As always, we welcome feedback / suggestions / questions.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Hi ,

I visted your website a day or two ago. Really nice conversion!

Also I was impressed by how small the inductor is your using for the buck regulator. 10kw , very little flux-swing?


On teh PFC issue which is quite substantial regarding the wattage. TI had a very nice application where they used a buck PFC!!! Very little added complexity is required. 

Here's the link to their chip & design example
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?literatureNumber=slusak8&fileType=pdf


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

steven4601 said:


> Hi ,
> 
> I visted your website a day or two ago. Really nice conversion!
> 
> ...


Thanks Steven! Checked it out - really interesting given that the main problem with boost-type PFCs is very high peak switch & inductor currents. The only issue is that buck type can only be used for batteries up to ~200V while keeping PF above 0.9. Still, would cover most of the EV conversion batteries...


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Power electronics is fun.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Looks good, Thank you for the work...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys - am starting developing PFC for this beast. 

Will try the boost (again) BUT this time using rugged a 1200V 400A continuous IGBT instead of 2 wimpy 60A MOSFETS. I am thinking of using IR1153S chip - mostly because that's the only CCM PFC chip available from DigiKey that's switching at slower than 50-65kHz. Since I am using large IGBT, driving at anything higher than 32kHz is going to be too 'expensive' (power loss and beefy drive components - wise).

Anybody had any experience with these chips?

Will be designing the PCB now. Will use the 10A driver boards I have designed earlier. Should be able to do first tests within the next 10 days or so....

Thx!
Valery.


PS. Steve, I thought hard about your buck PFC chip suggestion and it's going to be tough to make that work in my application for 256V nominal battery - CV cutoff for that one is 284V so would be tough to use buck from 330V rectified...


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Really nice work Valery and way to go for sharing and making this open source! This is the true spirit of DIY forum stuff!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

valerun said:


> Over the last few months, my team has developed a 10kW / 60A charger design that exceeds all known chargers available on the market today



this is great, but wouldn't it require getting the power company to basically install a whole additional 100amp panel for service? That's a couple grand.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> this is great, but wouldn't it require getting the power company to basically install a whole additional 100amp panel for service? That's a couple grand.


not really. in my case, I just tapped into the 60A line that used to run my electric stove (long removed). If not existing 60A line, you can just install an additional 60A breaker into your existing panel and run off that. The minimum service level I've seen in California is 100A to residential house (in fact, most new houses tend to have 150A-200A main breaker) so should be fine even with everything else plugged in.

V


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

As an electrical contractor I can tell you that the 10Kw charger will be fine on most homes in the US which usually have at least a 100A service. Most people who can afford a lithium pack can afford a newer home with even larger services I would think.

The 25Kw unit will have more instances of tripped main breaker but for a 200A service on a normal size home it should be ok most of the time even on a total electric home. That one would be a good candidate for a 3 phase 208V service also, reducing the current draw to about 65-70A from 104.

I have a question about the precision of the voltage at the shutdown point. Ie if it's set for 170V, how much can it deviate from 170V? I may be a candidate for the 10Kw in a kit form so I can get more use of my truck. 

Another question, what are the dimensions of the unit as I have mine behind the seat of my S10 which barely clears my Zivan NG5.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> ...I have mine behind the seat of my S10 which barely clears my Zivan NG5.


wow, that must heat the cabin up nicely after a charge! good in the winter.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

dtb, I keep the windows open in the summer but yes in the winter it helps.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ElectriCar said:


> I have a question about the precision of the voltage at the shutdown point. Ie if it's set for 170V, how much can it deviate from 170V? I may be a candidate for the 10Kw in a kit form so I can get more use of my truck.
> 
> Another question, what are the dimensions of the unit as I have mine behind the seat of my S10 which barely clears my Zivan NG5.


Hi ElectriCar, 

the voltage resolution is ~0.5-1V on the full pack voltage (10-bit ADC measuring the output of a hall sensor with ~5mV/V sensitivity to pack voltage). for a 170V pack, this will mean ~0.01-0.02V per cell. I normally set up the chargers for 3.5V CV cutoff for a few reasons:
1. Enables reliable end of charge detection for a bottom-balanced pack without driving any cell above 3.6V (for a pack with capacity matched to ~2% - which has been the case in all my dealings with CALB batteries).
2. Leaves 1-2% of capacity untapped at the top - which is good for battery longevity
3. Allows for any voltage sensor deviations due to limited resolution, unusual temperature profile, etc.

Dimensions are ~10x15x6". You will also need some space on the sides of the unit for connections and cooling.

Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

testing different PFC circuits now. Boost topology seems to be working but two stages do hit the efficiency...

so what do you guys think of going single-stage discontinuous conduction mode buck-boost? From what I read up, if it is kept in DCM, that topology naturally has high Power Factor.

A couple of questions I am struggling with a bit though (perhaps some lurking power management gurus can comment ;-):

1. Is what I read about naturally high PF correct?

2. How feasible is to let a microcontroller manage switching frequency based on output current (to keep things in DCM)? Max update rate is going to be ~1kHz so frequency will have to be calculated (as opposed to controlled based on real-time current sensing). 

3. Since there is no bulk cap pre-switch, there will be 120Hz ripple on output. Probably uncorrectable by my previous approach of jacking up duty cycle and letting current limiter shave off the peaks. Not sure how big of a deal that 120Hz ripple, though.

Any ideas?
Valery.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

1. Power Factor depends strongly on the power. Discontinious COnduction (Critical conduction) mode PFC's often are suited for lower powers. (<1kw)

Reason: large flux swings require ferrite. When using ferrite to its max (full flux swing & high frequencies) it starts to dissipate substantially more than the copper windings.

Sollution: go to Continious conduction mode (ferrites still can be used, but also Iron powder) for high power (1kw>). CCM has a lower flux swing in the storage inductor, but your IGBT or mosfet will be 'hit' harder because it will be hard-switching. Hard-switching is not really an issue , just expect a few watt's extra there. 


2. why use a micro when an 80 cent PFC chip can perform equally & proven technology. Missing feedback detection, easy to replicate, easier to get certification. A CCM converter chip will fall back to DCM automaggically when the output current is too low to sustain CCM. 

3. No bulk-capacitor for your buck-converter? It will need some sort of bulk capacity. You else might get beat-frequencies causing regulation / loop instabilities. 


CCM should be possible to do 97..98% without going overboard. Just use a fine stranded Litze wire for your storage inductor and keep the beginning and end away from eachother inside the bobbin. Using low drain-source capacitance capacitor will improve efficiency & SiC diodes. 
99% requires tweaking and is likely only possible at reduced power levels.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Steven for you help! Really appreciate it!



steven4601 said:


> 2. why use a micro when an 80 cent PFC chip can perform equally & proven technology. Missing feedback detection, easy to replicate, easier to get certification. A CCM converter chip will fall back to DCM automaggically when the output current is too low to sustain CCM.


mostly because one can't get access to these chip's inner control circuits. In order to make these work in a charger, I need to be able to command the chip to maintain certain constant current or voltage. With the chips I studied, it's far from trivial. I have bought some PWM chips with exposed error amplifier inputs but hasn't tried it yet.



steven4601 said:


> 3. No bulk-capacitor for your buck-converter? It will need some sort of bulk capacity. You else might get beat-frequencies causing regulation / loop instabilities.


there are - both on input and output. I was referring to the buck-boost topology with high PF which would not have a bulk cap on input. And therefore would have large 120Hz ripple on output.



steven4601 said:


> CCM should be possible to do 97..98% without going overboard. Just use a fine stranded Litze wire for your storage inductor and keep the beginning and end away from eachother inside the bobbin. Using low drain-source capacitance capacitor will improve efficiency & SiC diodes.
> 99% requires tweaking and is likely only possible at reduced power levels.


you're probably right - maybe I just shouldn't stress out too much about these 2-5% losses and just go with a straightforward boost PFC followed by micro-controlled charger PWM converter. Have designed a PCB today based on IR1153 PFC chip (datasheet attached). Picked that for its low switching frequency as am planning to use a 200A IGBT module as a switch.

SiC diodes are hard to come by at this current level I think, no?

Thanks again!
Valery.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

valerun said:


> mostly because one can't get access to these chip's inner control circuits. In order to make these work in a charger, I need to be able to command the chip to maintain certain constant current or voltage. With the chips I studied, it's far from trivial. I have bought some PWM chips with exposed error amplifier inputs but hasn't tried it yet.


I think you can design the PFC stand-alone. No control lines what so ever. Also you do not need to controll the current or voltage for the PFC once you have chosen the resistor values. eg, 400Vdc out, ~ 25A limit




valerun said:


> you're probably right - maybe I just shouldn't stress out too much about these 2-5% losses and just go with a straightforward boost PFC followed by micro-controlled charger PWM converter. Have designed a PCB today based on IR1153 PFC chip (datasheet attached). Picked that for its low switching frequency as am planning to use a 200A IGBT module as a switch.


200A IGBT for PFC ? Which brand and model are you planning on using? Those brick type IGBT's may not be as efficient for 20Khz than you like. Paralleling 3 or 4 smaller Mosfets/IGBT's is no shame either. ST & IRF has some nice 40+ [email protected] 100C-j IGBT's under 5 euro that can do 40kHz with reasonable losses.



valerun said:


> SiC diodes are hard to come by at this current level I think, no?
> Thanks again!
> Valery.


@ 22kHz SiC is a waste of funds  
HOw are you going to filter the input? 22kHz requires some serious input (X2) capacitors.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

steven4601 said:


> 200A IGBT for PFC ? Which brand and model are you planning on using? Those brick type IGBT's may not be as efficient for 20Khz than you like. Paralleling 3 or 4 smaller Mosfets/IGBT's is no shame either. ST & IRF has some nice 40+ [email protected] 100C-j IGBT's under 5 euro that can do 40kHz with reasonable losses.


I was hoping to use something like the attached. 600ns turn-on/off times (Rg=10Ohm), 600nQ switching charge. <300ns reverse recovery on the diode (will use one of the IGBTs in the module as freewheeling diode). Hence 22kHz - should limit switching time to ~2% of the cycle max.

Of course, 5 50A MOSFETs like the attached could do the trick, as well - theoretically with much smaller losses but to take advantage of that, I'd have to REALLY pay attention to parasitics due to higher dV/dt. So far, my success rate on that beyond 32kHz was a bit spotty ;-))

V


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Just doing rough guess is that you will have about 100A inductor current worst case.

From the graph switching-losses vs current (mid way between 25 and 125tj):
Switching losses then are 
Eon = 2.5mJ * 22kHz = 55 Watt for turning on 
Eoff = 6.0mJ * 22kHz = 132 watt for turning off. 
that is ~180..200 watts switching losses. 

conduction losses 2V * 100A watts * 0.7 = 140

Total igbt loss 320 watts. or seen from 10kW output, 3.2% loss.

Not bad, but i think you might find better switchers with little effort. 
A similar powerloss result but for 17 USD worth of switchers can be realized with the : STGW30NC60VD 

Either way its going to work.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Steven - will try some new things next weekend & will post.

Some good progress on the charger itself:
1. Added automatic calibration menus - on power-up, the charger goes through self-calibration of all the sensors - zero point and (for all-important battery voltage sensor) sensitivity calibration. I am soooo happy I don't have to hardcode these things now for every unit I build!
2. Added battery type / size menus - again, only once per power-up.
3. Added output power memory so that the next time you connect the mains, the charger will begin charging using your last saved settings (after 10 sec timeout)
4. Added intelligent fan control based on heatsink temperature. Now can leave charger plugged into 12V circuit all the time - total draw ~2W 
5. Added variable switching frequency control. The idea is to minimize switching losses while keeping output ripple current below 0.4. ripple factor ~ T * D (1-D) / Iout. The higher the current and the closer duty cycle is to 0 or 100%, the lower the frequency I can use. Limited the range to 2-12kHz for now - can see the effect very clearly - pushing 10kW into the 280V pack keeps the heatsink at 35C (with fans on)! 
6. Did the thermal checks of all components in different regimes. Made a couple of design tweaks to bring everything close together (e.g., my input caps were heating up to 85C at 8kW before, etc). The limiting factor now is actually ...wires connecting components ;-) I guess that's a good problem to have.
7. Redesigned power stage to use a single 200A 600V IGBT module for both a switch and a freewheeling diode. Saving space while getting rid of isolation headaches (WHO THE F*K decided that on all diodes the cathode has to be connected to the backplate???). Will try to push 80-100A output current with this design. The limiting factor will be the inductor I think... Will probably try to use 2 in parallel - at that current level, half the inductance should be sufficient.

V


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

steven4601 said:


> Total igbt loss 320 watts. or seen from 10kW output, 3.2% loss.
> 
> Not bad, but i think you might find better switchers with little effort.
> A similar powerloss result but for 17 USD worth of switchers can be realized with the : STGW30NC60VD


Double-E for dummies question.. The power rating for the IGBT you spec is 250 watts, that's only in regards to the switching losses or the total throughput energy?

Thanks

-Bruce


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Sorry, forgot to mention , in my previous response id had 5 of these paralleled. One mosfet is about 3 to 3.5 usd totalling at 17 USD.

5x 250 is 1250 watt maximum heat-loss. 

Your question about losses however is slightly more complex when looking in detail. Purely looking the maximum power dissipation number only gives an idea of what is possible. Its not a guarantee. 
This is because junction temperature depends strongly on the length of the pulse.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

steven4601 said:


> This is because junction temperature depends strongly on the length of the pulse.


Yes but wouldn't you spec the design in this case to have peak current to be under continuous rating for components? Esp given paralleling of many smaller parts and resulting need for additional derating?

V


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Continious rating as in DC?

That way you'll be safe ofcourse, but depending on the application, the silicon can be pushed further as long the junction temperatures are satisfied. The graphs describing the thermal resistance vs time are a great way to estimate the junction temperature for high current pulses.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

steven4601 said:


> Your question about losses however is slightly more complex when looking in detail. Purely looking the maximum power dissipation number only gives an idea of what is possible. Its not a guarantee.


So.. keep going bigger till it's not smoking hot


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bruceme said:


> So.. keep going bigger till it's not smoking hot


LOL. Well, I have learned, thermal management is nothing to laugh about. Just most recently, I had to deal with my freewheeling diodes blowing up at the rated current just because I used thicker thermal tape instead of my usual one (had to use thicker tape for better electrical isolation of 1000V spikes on IGBT turn-off in the new 700V design). So had to mount diodes metal-to-metal to copper heat spreader first and then spreader to sink through tape. A bit of a hassle... Again, who decided that cathodes should be electrically connected to baseplate on all the power diodes???

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

10 200A dual IGBT modules showed up in the mail today. Will be testing out the PFC and new, 17kW / 100A output version of the charger later this week. I think this will be the ultimate charger, capable of fully utilizing max rating of the level 2 J1772 output. Stay tuned.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

valerun said:


> 10 200A dual IGBT modules showed up in the mail today. Will be testing out the PFC and new, 17kW / 100A output version of the charger later this week. I think this will be the ultimate charger, capable of fully utilizing max rating of the level 2 J1772 output. Stay tuned.


I want one of those


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ok a bit slower than promised but I finally got to finishing the PFC stage for the charger! (if you are wondering why took longer than expected, check http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/another-diy-dc-controller-mock-60262.html ;-)

Total parts cost ~$130 if you get them in bulk - including a used 200A half-bridge IGBT module from ebay. Of course, if you use this PFC stage with the charger, you are saving input bridge and at least one elcap that you now don't need for the voltage doubling. So technically net parts cost is probably around $100.

Tested to ~5kW so far. Waveforms are pretty clean - I am only limited by the heatsink at the moment as this thing does generate a bit of heat and my minuscule fanless heatsink just doesn't cut it ;-)

Recap of some parameters:
1. IR1153 PFC chip with overcurrent, overvoltage, undervoltage, etc protections. Switching at 22kHz - ideal for IGBT. Custom PCB
2. Same IGBT driver design as in the main charger unit - on a new custom PCB mounted directly on IGBT leads
3. 400uH inductor - same type as in the main charger unit.
4. In a half-bridge module I am using (200A 600V), one IGBT is used as switch, another one has G-E shorted to serve as freewheel diode. That way, stray inductances are minimized and thermal management is simplified. None of that stupid cathode-to-heatsink electrical connection to deal with in all the 'normal' power diodes...

Will post schematics and PCB files to the site soon - I'd imagine we'll add this to our kit options.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

anyone has schematics for GFCI circuits? I want to build one into this charger. As a few rightly mentioned, since it's non-isolated, we need some additional protection. Instead of using off-the-shelf $100 50A 240V GFCI, seems more sensible to just add a bit of circuitry to the existing design.


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## Huub3 (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi Valerun,

As I am looking into a 600 V battery pack (AC conversion), one of my concerns is the charger.

I see some options:
1) I split the pack into manageable chunks (say 3 x 200 V, or 2 x 300 V)

2) I go to the charger-per-cell set-up as rwaudio has done it (very elegant I think as it might reduce the need for BMS)

3) I find an option to charge the whole pack in one piece (so 600 V)

This last option is something that I am growing to like more and more, as it is simple, efficient and much simpler to build/test (I think).

What would be your opinion on using your design for such a 600 V charger? Very much interested in knowing the do's and dont's and limitations.

Regards,


Huub


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Huub3 said:


> 2) I go to the charger-per-cell set-up as rwaudio has done it (very elegant I think as it might reduce the need for BMS)


For a voltage that high you will need a whole lot of dc/dc converters, (~200) but you probably won't need high current ones, I would suggest making sure something suitable is available in that quantity for a decent price before proceeding. You will still need some form of low voltage warning since the pack would be top balanced.

Even though I'm going with the dc/dc charger this time around, it's hard not to be interested in this project. Great work Valerun!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Huub3 said:


> Hi Valerun,
> 
> As I am looking into a 600 V battery pack (AC conversion), one of my concerns is the charger.
> 
> ...


Huub - it is very possible. In fact, since your output currents are going to be quite a bit lower in a 600V config, your inductor and other output components would not be as stressed as in a, say, 144V config when the output is 60A.

You have to make sure that:
1. all your power stage components are rated for at least 800V (better at 1000V).
2. Unless you go for 1000V / 1200V components, layout will be super-important (it will be just 'very important' if you go for 1200V rated parts ;-)
3. your insulation is good for at least 800V (most cables are 600V rated)
4. you will, of course, need a boost stage in front of your charger to get the input voltage to something significantly higher than your pack nominal (100V above is a good rule of thumb). You can use either (a) PFC stage I have mentioned above - with different voltage setting resistors, or (b) use a voltage tripler on the 240VAC input. (a) is preferred due to better power factor, likely smaller volume, and ability to handle 110VAC, as well.

Hope this helps.

V


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

great work ,I also am interested in high voltage packs .


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> great work ,I also am interested in high voltage packs .


so, while we are on the high-voltage packs topic. Just was thinking about it earlier today - what is the highest safe voltage one can apply to the commonly available DC motors - Kostovs, Netgains? I know they have max continuous voltage ratings (170V for regular Netgains, 288V for HV, 250V for Kostov 11 SFM, etc) but what about max instantaneous. This is what's going to limit the battery pack voltage you can go with while using those motors. I, too, would love to go with 600V max pack to reduce the current draw and be able to upgrade my pack / add range extension packs etc but I am afraid that sending 600V pulses to even a Netgain HV might just fry it.

thoughts?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm thinking industrial vfd's powering Prius or Reme pm motors .


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## Huub3 (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi Valerun,

thanks for this reply.

To be honest, EE is not my strongest competence. I am already pretty proud in having my AC combo of motor and inverter (industrial) running, and now understanding how to specify the rewinding.

So, going into DIY charging certainly is a leap for me, let alone the 600 V variant. I assume I will be looking for support in this field, also to avoid killing me or my family.

However, I still am very much interested in your design. Do you have indications in your documentation where the different options (current, voltage, # of cells) are to be set, or is this totally SW controlled? Or (I hope not), is this something that every user has to experimentally find out him/herself?

I understand most of your remarks, but still I am certain that I do not grasp the magnitude of something like "layout is really important", so any guidance would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards,


Huub



valerun said:


> Huub - it is very possible. In fact, since your output currents are going to be quite a bit lower in a 600V config, your inductor and other output components would not be as stressed as in a, say, 144V config when the output is 60A.
> 
> You have to make sure that:
> 1. all your power stage components are rated for at least 800V (better at 1000V).
> ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Huub3 said:


> So, going into DIY charging certainly is a leap for me, let alone the 600 V variant. I assume I will be looking for support in this field, also to avoid killing me or my family.
> 
> However, I still am very much interested in your design. Do you have indications in your documentation where the different options (current, voltage, # of cells) are to be set, or is this totally SW controlled? Or (I hope not), is this something that every user has to experimentally find out him/herself?
> 
> I understand most of your remarks, but still I am certain that I do not grasp the magnitude of something like "layout is really important", so any guidance would be very much appreciated.


Sure - have you read our page with details on the charger at http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl? It has answers to a lot of the above (you might need to read through the code, etc to get to some of them though). E.g., there are photos of the layout, notes on the right way to place components, etc.

Generally, all the parameters are controlled in software which is open source. No hardware changes of any kind are required (save for making sure that your components can handle the voltage).

Finally, you can always have us build it for you - see the above page for details.

Thanks,
V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

thinking about changing the basic design of the charger into isolated flyback converter. If the inductor is operated in discontinuous mode, it will have a naturally high PF. The peak currents will be high (I think flyback goes up to 3.5 Irms) but I am planning to use a 200A IGBT (400A peak) as a switch anyway so should work. What do you think?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I think it would have to be a full bridge converter to handle the power. Not trying to discourage but i don't feel like isolation is a big advantage for an ev charger. A good earth fault breaker is half the battle. If I were worried about isolation i'd put a mains frequency transformer in my home charge point. Weight and size don't matter as its stationary.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I think it would have to be a full bridge converter to handle the power.


you might be right. What about half-bridge? 

on isolation, Lee had a good point - if you don't provide protection, people won't use protection and then someone gets shocked (or worse) sooner or later.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Isolation isn't a magic bullet. Isolation can fail too, especially if it is being pushed to its power limit. 

There are 3 things that are available for user shock protection, isolation, ground fault circuit interrupt, and earth grounding. You really should use *2* of them.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys,

so after fighting the typical current sense noise issue in my PFC design down to the ground in the last week, we have a first box with PFC completed! Now I just don't see how anything else out there can possibly be better but of course I am biased ;-)

Anyway, onward to further improvements: in addition to the built-in GFCI protection, I thought it would be quite neat to develop stacked power stages design - a la Vicor bricks that give you gate in and gate out signals... The slave module would have only the power stage (PFC + buck) and would take in gate signals. This way all the stages will get natural current sharing - limited only by tolerance in choke's inductance... Then one could drive up to the charging station, plug in 2 cords and halve the charge time...

What do you think?

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I would actually be interested in a 3 phase input. I've access to 415v 3 phase at work and all of the public charge stations being installed in Ireland are 32amp 415v 3 phase so would be great to be able to reduce charge time on street.

I see a few saturdays in work with a couple igbts and rectifiers in my near future


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> in Ireland are 32amp 415v 3 phase so would be great to be able to reduce charge time on street.


Lucky you! That's 2x the power we get here in US from charging stations! If I get some 200A 1200V dual modules, can boost up to 700V and bring DC and 3-phase terminals out. That would be a pretty universal unit... Interesting


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

oh, man, these NEW IGBTs are sooo sweet: http://cgi.ebay.com/SEMIKRON-SPT-IG...ltDomain_0&hash=item41599f32aa#ht_2686wt_1110

$100 per, but Trise and Tfall of FIFTY NANOSECONDS! 

BTW might even make economic sense - this is at least 2-3% of efficiency at max load - or $0.08 per charge for a 35kWhr pack. Pays back in 2-3 years ;-))


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

valerun said:


> oh, man, these NEW IGBTs are sooo sweet: http://cgi.ebay.com/SEMIKRON-SPT-IG...ltDomain_0&hash=item41599f32aa#ht_2686wt_1110
> 
> $100 per, but Trise and Tfall of FIFTY NANOSECONDS!


.......must................resist............


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

;-)

ok the charger code now updated with full config stored in EEPROM. Configuration setup is through the 2-button interface and LCD screen. With PFC stage, any battery voltage up to ~320V nominal is a fair game.

With future 700VDC boosted bus design, sky's the limit. ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I would actually be interested in a 3 phase input. I've access to 415v 3 phase at work and all of the public charge stations being installed in Ireland are 32amp 415v 3 phase so would be great to be able to reduce charge time on street.
> 
> I see a few saturdays in work with a couple igbts and rectifiers in my near future


This should be relatively easy - just use a universal rectifier capable of 3-phase input. Just watch out for the DC rail voltage (will be ~560VDC for a 415VAC 3-phase input I think). Have to use 1200V IGBTs for that - one of those new SEMIKRON modules on ebay... mmmm.... ;-)


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Val , does the software make any provision for a real time clock? Would be excellent to have a timer function for use with off peak electricity.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

+1. Peak here is 10.9 cents vs 5.9 for night time. 
Timer could also allow an off time for redundancy
.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Val , does the software make any provision for a real time clock? Would be excellent to have a timer function for use with off peak electricity.


not yet. not sure how to do it on Arduino - I hope one of the people building this thing will just write an add-on to the code and share back.

A batch of heatsinks arrived - 400lbs or so. Haven't seen so much aluminum in one place before I think... ;-))

PS. Thanks to a few of you guys who sent their suggestions / comments on kits - I will be updating the info on the site this coming weekend. Also will add new version of the software, updated component set (making assembly a bit easier), and somewhat simplified schematics.

Stay tuned. 

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I'll give it a go. Back in the day i used the DS1302 rtc chip quite a lot. Should be able to make it talk to the arduino.


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

You just need to add this breakout board and talk to it over I2C bus

http://cgi.ebay.com/DS1307-Based-Re...ultDomain_0&hash=item35b3b44f66#ht_831wt_1344


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

latest unit layout (with PFC stage). Still being tuned but seems to be able to fit everything into 8x10x7" box (with heatsink on top)


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

You Sir are a steely eyed missile man


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## Rocketmaker10000 (Dec 7, 2008)

This is excellent. Do you have any Resellers? I'm interested. www.TAEC.co

Thanks in advance.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

valerun said:


> 400lbs or so. Haven't seen so much aluminum in one place before I think... ;-))












Perhaps the most aluminum in one place... or maybe the Sea Shadow










-Bruce


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## jonathanb (Aug 17, 2011)

Nice project! I'm not a fan of the SAE connector system with its proprietary charging stations, so its nice to see that someone out there is developing a system that really can "plug in anywhere". I have one safety concern, though. According to the schematic posted at http://www.emotorwerks.com/images/EMWsite/VMcharger-V12.bmp, the negative output of the charger is not fused. According to the input configuration, the midpoint of the DC link is earth, not B-. Therefore, a short from B- to ground will produce a fault across the negative rail caps at a minimum. When connected to 240V split-phase input power, the fault will also draw current from the source, since only one of the inputs is fused.

For proper safety, _both _of the input _and both _of the output terminals should be fused. It is not typically proper to fuse the neutral, so the second input fuse should be added only on the other 240V input path, not the 120V neutral path.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Val , do you have a schematic and bom for the pfc stage?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

10kW in an 8x10x7 box? Wow! That's smaller than my 4kW (on a cool day) Manzanita PFC30. I could get about 30 miles per hour charge at 55A.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> 10kW in an 8x10x7 box? Wow! That's smaller than my 4kW (on a cool day) Manzanita PFC30. I could get about 30 miles per hour charge at 55A.


yes but:
* heatsink is sticking out by 2" (+1" for fans)
* compact packaging is still being tuned and tested for thermal balance at max power. 

Damien - check out http://emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/EMW_PFC.pl. Just put it up - hot off the press, so to speak.

Thx.
V


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

valerun said:


> Damien - check out http://emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/EMW_PFC.pl. Just put it up - hot off the press, so to speak.
> 
> Thx.
> V


They have PHD in Physics from Russian University http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/team.pl , they will be at the EVCCON http://www.evtv.me/SPEAKERS.htm September 21-25, 2011 - Cape Girardeau Missouri - http://www.evtv.me/evccon.html 

My 2 c
-Y


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

The igbt driver board seems to be somewhat different from the earlier version. The one i have for the pfc and the normal buck stage seems to be the type in the photo. Could you confirm the gate and emitter connections? Also the 18v zeners seem to be missing from this version. Is that ok?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> The igbt driver board seems to be somewhat different from the earlier version. The one i have for the pfc and the normal buck stage seems to be the type in the photo. Could you confirm the gate and emitter connections? Also the 18v zeners seem to be missing from this version. Is that ok?


yes, gate and emitter are in the right places. They can be soldered directly to the control pins of the IGBT modules we use (200A 600V half-bridge). Re zeners - haven't had any problems as long as the boards are directly on the modules.

Let me know how it works out for you.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I've made some progress with the charger. Got the control , igbt driver and current sensor boards built. Still waiting on some bits for the pfc board. Made a start on the power stage today. Am using 1200v 150a igbts from a ups. Inductors are from ups also.

Had a slight industrial accident with the potting compound Got more of it on the bench and on myself then on the inductors.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I've made some progress with the charger. Got the control , igbt driver and current sensor boards built. Still waiting on some bits for the pfc board. Made a start on the power stage today. Am using 1200v 150a igbts from a ups. Inductors are from ups also.
> 
> Had a slight industrial accident with the potting compound Got more of it on the bench and on myself then on the inductors.


Thanks for posting! That board looks familiar ;-) 

this looks like one mean charger... best practice on using fully isolated, large base diode modules, too!

V


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Hi
I've doing some testing with an old vfd, it have all the power stage setup
and it has 415v setup for the powerstage
testing it with 24v dc at the moment to see how the software works doing it with an Arduino Duemilanove.
I have problems with the mesurements, they are not as acurate as I would like. I can do it all manual with an pot so ahhhhh just have to transfere it to software.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> I've made some progress with the charger.


3-phase? Wow, that's going to be seriously beefy. What kva are you targeting with that?


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

oops, duped


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

Just at first blush... that's very similar to a 3-phase ACIM inverter 

I know you can use a 3-phase inverter as a charger as well (by using run caps and the motor coil to buck/boost). Pairing an inverter/motor pair would make an amazing DIY all-in-one power system.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bruceme said:


> Just at first blush... that's very similar to a 3-phase ACIM inverter
> 
> I know you can use a 3-phase inverter as a charger as well (by using run caps and the motor coil to buck/boost). Pairing an inverter/motor pair would make an amazing DIY all-in-one power system.


Isn't this what AC prop guys do with their power unit?

We could do something in our DC world, too - using motor as an inductor. Does require a bunch of contactors, though...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

made some updates to the site - schematics and pcb design, mostly. some old info was still there. also, added a page on PFC - http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/EMW_PFC.pl


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm looking over the schematic you used the Synchronous Buck topology... very nice. You control S2 to make buck more efficient and if you close S1, it's a straight forward boost topology.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

valerun said:


> Isn't this what AC prop guys do with their power unit?
> 
> We could do something in our DC world, too - using motor as an inductor. Does require a bunch of contactors, though...


I've spent a lot of time thinking about that... basically big switches and capacitors cost money, why do we have two sets of them, one for charging and one for controlling the motor?

A DC controller is a very big switch with a filter (I drew it horz. flipped so it matches the schematic below).










That would need to be turned into this...









Any ideas?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bruceme said:


> I've spent a lot of time thinking about that... basically big switches and capacitors cost money, why do we have two sets of them, one for charging and one for controlling the motor?
> 
> A DC controller is a very big switch with a filter (I drew it horz. flipped so it matches the schematic below).
> 
> Any ideas?


Yes, this is indeed tempting. At some point while working on this stuff, I asked EVnetics guys about using the Soliton for charging. A few issues - nothing insurmountable but things to figure out:
1. Need a big inductor. Can use a motor if some contactors are added (need at least 2 contactors + 2 less powerful relays). The contactors / relays alone will run you at $400-500 already. And since at least one of the contactors is on the motor side, it really has to be able to withstand 1000A so likely to be one of the more expensive types...
2. Without good amount of filtering upfront, DC controller will likely have issues with rectified AC. The controller expects relatively clean DC. To get there at the power levels you would be trying would require capacitance on the order of 100,000uF. Which will run you another $500 or so. 
3. Assuming the idea is to use controller to get faster charge, you really start needing a proper PFC upfront. The problem is you need one more inductor of same size and you don't have a second motor to use it as an inductor.

Again, nothing insurmountable but starts adding up.

Actually, I think if you are after higher power levels, the best approach would be:
1. Up to ~20kW - just soup up this design with more powerful inductors, diodes, etc.
2. Beyond ~20kW, having to have 2 inductors really starts to slow you down. Probably an optimal approach would be to get one of the 1200V 600A modules, wire it as a DCM Buck-Boost topology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck–boost_converter) and use a motor as an inductor. DCM will give you the naturally high power factor. Buck-boost will give you flexible output voltage (lower or higher than input). You will still need some contactors whose configuration will depend on how your controller is wired internally (with M+ = B+ or M- = B-). You might be able to replace some (but not all) contactors with power diodes. With a 600A module, you can get up to ~50kW.
3. I do not really see the way to get beyond 50kW charging power without having 2 motors at your disposal.

Hope this makes sense. 

PS. We are testing a few higher-power setups now - one being just a souped-up version of the design described in this thread - with PFC producing DC bus of ~700V; one using DCM buck-boost topology (similar to #2 above but with a standalone inductor). The latter will likely use a dedicated PWM chip similar to what we are trying in our controller mock design (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/another-diy-dc-controller-mock-60262.html). Will def let you know how it goes.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Quick update on PFC stage progress. See attached photo of a 750V PFC booster working. Using 2 1200V 400A IGBT devices (one as a switcher, one as a diode). Note new type of inductor - 1mH 50A parts directly from China - 100A rated in parallel. Also note virtually no wires - most connections done with copper bus sheets (pardon the brazing skills - no career in plumbing for me, I guess... ;-). 

Will run with real load tomorrow. Hoping to get to 20-25kW with this setup.


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## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

valerun said:


> Note new type of inductor - 1mH 50A parts directly from China - 100A rated in parallel. Also note virtually no wires - most connections done with copper bus sheets (pardon the brazing skills - no career in plumbing for me, I guess... ;-).


The new inductors grabbed my attention. Do you have a spec sheet for these? Also, What frequency will you be running these at? I think I saw something before around 20-25khz. 

I love the layout, But have to ask what is with the grinding of the heatsink before mounting everything? 

Great Job. Its nice to see a DIY charger makeing progress. My is just collecting dust during the nice weather while I work on my Vette.

-Adam


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adamj12b said:


> The new inductors grabbed my attention. Do you have a spec sheet for these? Also, What frequency will you be running these at? I think I saw something before around 20-25khz.
> 
> I love the layout, But have to ask what is with the grinding of the heatsink before mounting everything?
> 
> ...


Hi Adam - will dig up the spec sheet. in the meantime, some of my measurements below:
1. 3 stacked cores for the overall height of ~2.5", OD ~3in, ID ~2in; I believe it's a iron powder core. 
2. ~50 turns of 4 strands of 16/18-gauge copper wire
3. 1mH inductance
4. ~13-15 mOhm DC resistance
5. Rated for 50A DC current (which would make for ~40W in copper loss)

Re polishing - after cutting the threads, had to file the thing down a bit. Next time will probably just mill it flat (we are cutting all the holes on a CNC mill already anyway).

QUESTION: 
At 750V, 8000uF caps store a pretty good amount of energy. The problem I've been having related to that is my 20A 110V circuit breakers pop when turning this thing on. I have increase the soft-start time already to 300ms (as opposed to reference design recommendation of 100ms. Raising it further will likely result in problems with loop response. So I need some creative suggestions. I was thinking of fitting an inrush limiter thermistor (datasheet attached) between the small film cap I have right after the freewheel diode and the large bulk output cap. Could also fit this right after the bridge or in the AC line but then will probably have PFC chip's brown-out protection kicking in due to the initial voltage drop on the resistor before it heats up... Could also think about the precharge relay but that adds quite a bit of complexity... Ideas?

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

After talking to a couple of you offline, just realized that my PFC stage can be easily used to boost the DC voltage to the same output value. Reading the datasheet for the ir1153 chip we are using, it is clear that the chip will force the input current track whatever input voltage. In the case of rectified AC input, this will result in half-sinusoidal current draw and hence the power factor correction. But in the case of DC, this will result just in a constant current draw but the booster will produce the same voltage.

So the charger design with PFC stage can be used for ANY type of input - universal AC or any DC input voltage within ~100-400V. Both limits are soft and can be changed by changing the values of the resistors on the PFC board.

This would be useful for things like jumping one electric car with another, charging car from your solar battery banks, etc, etc.

What do you guys think?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I love it what kind of input to output ratios could we get . thinking of the solar charger , but many other applications . got me thinking about my 2 motor(or 4 motor) 4x4 , makes the high level charger possible . great work !


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> I love it what kind of input to output ratios could we get . thinking of the solar charger , but many other applications . got me thinking about my 2 motor(or 4 motor) 4x4 , makes the high level charger possible . great work !


thx! without any mods to the PFC booster, 160VDC-350VDC inputs are possible, producing 400VDC output (I am only talking about the PFC stage here - you would then use the buck stage to lower the voltage down to what your batteries need and do regulation of output current etc). 

With minor mods to the PFC (different values of the resistors):
1. lower input boundary is not really limited. I think down to 12V can work but obviously I have not tested this.
2. upper input boundary is your desired boosted voltage - 20-30V. E.g., with the standard 400V output, you can go as high as 370-380VDC on input
3. output boosted DC voltage is limited only by components - we got it up to 750VDC but since dialed down to 650V because of ...wire insulation that's rated for 600V. With 1200VDC IGBTs, high-voltage output film cap (10-15uF) and output elcaps in series, and good power stage layout (e.g., copper buses no wires), I would be comfortable going up to 900V.
4. output to input voltage ratio cannot be infinite due to things like parasitic inductor resistance etc. I don't know what the top ratio is but we were able to get 750V output from 110VAC so at least that
5. As you increase that ratio, watch out for the inductor current. Basically, with the design shown (which has 2 inductors each rated for 1.5x the current of ones we include in our kits), I would not go beyond 80-100A input current. Which, at 48VDC input, would mean max of 5kW. Of course, running from 220VAC, we are hoping to get 20kW from this setup...

Will try under full load tomorrow from various input voltages and report.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

I think I figured out how to deal with the initial in-rush at the high-voltage PFC start-up:
1. Put one of the large in-rush resistors right before the output cap. At 650V, 40A rated resistor would be plenty. 
2. Increase the soft-start time to 2s (instead of the datasheet / reference design's 100ms). Further exploration of the design formulas for ir1153 chip revealed that it's possible to go quite a bit higher in that parameter.

will test tomorrow.

V


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Has anyone built a 110v/220v 48v 60amp charger out of this yet?

i am curious what the best set of build components for something like that would be?

(I say 60amps because my pack is rated for 63amps up to about 50% soc 50amps to about 65% soc and 30 amps up to 80% soc, then trickling down)

Would be interesting to try and build the so called 5 stage greensaver battery charger.

Thanx
Ryan


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rmay635703 said:


> Has anyone built a 110v/220v 48v 60amp charger out of this yet?
> 
> i am curious what the best set of build components for something like that would be?
> 
> ...


Hi Ryan - should definitely be possible. I can configure one of our bench units for this output and post a video of its charging if you like. We could use 15 CALB cells to simulate your load. At this power level and low output voltage, I'd say you don't even need PFC...


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

valerun said:


> Hi Ryan - should definitely be possible. I can configure one of our bench units for this output and post a video of its charging if you like. We could use 15 CALB cells to simulate your load. At this power level and low output voltage, I'd say you don't even need PFC...


Thats what I was hoping, with me the simpler (and cheaper) the better.

I am uncertain how minimalist you can safely go though with such a simple power requirement.

The only trouble though is that on 110v it would need to be limited to probably 25 or 30 amps so as to not exceed the rating of the particular outlets I have available, one is 110v 30amps though.

Ah but now i am starting to dream of make things complex again, adjustable charge rate to match whatever source i have


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rmay635703 said:


> Thats what I was hoping, with me the simpler (and cheaper) the better.
> 
> I am uncertain how minimalist you can safely go though with such a simple power requirement.
> 
> ...


got it. You still need control over the output anyway - to dial in your charge profile. That puts some lower limit on the cost of the solution that would work here...

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Small bit of progress on the charger. Getting the layout sorted now. Caps are 450v 10,000uf. Can't decide on whether to series them for 5,000uf at 900v for 3 phase input or use it on 240v single phase and have one cap as the dc bus and one as the output .... 

Plan now is to mount an enclosure on top of the caps with the control circuit , input rccb and output fuse. Maybe use a transparent lid for the display. I'm toying with the idea of having the display wireless and in a little handheld enclosure with a pp3 battery and a 433mhz link.

LCR meter finally turned up and my salvaged torroid filter inductors measure in at 580uH. Series , parallel or one as pfc ...........

Next move is to implement the IEC61851 charger control. Should be relatively easy. As the on street charge poles here in Ireland are 32amp 3 phase they use mode 3 1khz pwm signal. No need for anything fancy here just filter it to dc and apply to a digital input via a 5v1 zener. If signal present , assume 32amp input , if no signal assume 13amp.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

jackbauer said:


> Small bit of progress on the charger


THERE's absolutely NOTHING small about that... Just remember it's not the size of the boat!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Nice, Damien! Are you operating the charger stage as boost or buck now?

In other news, we have successfully tested the PFC stage to 15kW at 650VDC output (using different components from the reference design we use in kits). Same power stage tested to boost 100V battery to power 5kW load at 400V. Amazing what you can do with these rugged IGBTs...

Will post some pics once we put everything in the box. Not sure if people will be interested in kits etc at these voltages / power levels - we are building these for ourselves as we plan to run 500-600V packs in our BMWs.

Also some news on the controller in http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/another-diy-dc-controller-mock-60262p13.html


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

couple of boxed layout for the 650VDC 15kW PFC stage as promised. Will see how it holds up under full load... There is a dedicated fan blowing through inductors now. Also, the inductors are rated for ~3x the current of the previous ones.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Not had much time to play with the charger due to work commitments. The liquid cooled heatsink i bought on ebay did arrive today. As a bonus I got 2 three phase solid state relays! I'm very partial to the liquid cooling due to the space saving and my experiences with the motor controller. Obviously i'll have to drill and tap new mounting holes for the igbt and inductors etc. Don't think it will cause an issue as I can use thread tape on the screws to make them water tight. 

The inductors I stripped from an emerson ups are reading at 1mH so I might put two in parallel for higher current. In theory I could stand the heatsink vertical and put parts on both sides.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Like always it's a feast for my eyes, Jack. But how are you going to cool it, with a pump, and a radiator with a fan? Is it really worth the trouble?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Yeh pump , rad , fan setup. I actually think it is worth the effort. My air cooled controller had a tendency to reach thermal limit on a long trip. I see a lot of others with various brands of controller having this issue. The switch to liquid cooling was amazing. Now it barely gets above ambient. This charger generates a lot of heat in small areas. Getting that heat out and away from the parts is critical for running at high power. With the 3 phase on street charge points now springing up I want to able able to charge as quickly as possible to help mitigate the problem of only having a 10kwh pack.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Ah, of course, it's the fast removing of heat to another place. Relocate the problem.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

yes, the inductors are the worst here. Really important to (1) get the biggest ones you can find and live with, and (2) make sure the heat from inductors will not find its way to the semiconductors. 

All this is *especially* important if you have a PFC stage in the same box - the peak currents are higher in the boost stage and the frequency is way higher (22kHz vs. 10kHz). Both of these drive heat.

Remember that at the level of power we are talking about (10-15kW), even at 95% efficiency per stage we are talking about up to 1.5kW of heat to remove. This is a LOT of heat.

So until we get a bit more creative with stuff like energy-recovery snubbers, etc, we need a way to remove heat relatively quickly. Liquid cooling is pretty good. Especially if you already have liquid cooling setup for the controller. 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

oil cooling or gas cooling, flooding the inverter box , pumping to a radiator( oil cooled X ray machines ) or by using gas( Helium or Hydrogen ) you can cool the motor to , low windage , great penetration , very high thermal conductivity , no oxidation of parts . Turbo inter coolers are a perfect fit for gas to gas heat exchange . turbo compressor stage with electric motor for moving the gasses . The big utilities use 5-7 psi with Hydrogen for their generator cooling with a water heat exchanger under the generator in the same cabinet .: I understand Hydrogen is 1/2 the weight of helium therefore 2X the thermal conductivity .


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

aeroscott said:


> oil cooling or gas cooling, flooding the inverter box , pumping to a radiator( oil cooled X ray machines ) or by using gas( Helium or Hydrogen ) you can cool the motor to , low windage , great penetration , very high thermal conductivity , no oxidation of parts . Turbo inter coolers are a perfect fit for gas to gas heat exchange . turbo compressor stage with electric motor for moving the gasses . The big utilities use 5-7 psi with Hydrogen for their generator cooling with a water heat exchanger under the generator in the same cabinet .: I understand Hydrogen is 1/2 the weight of helium therefore 2X the thermal conductivity .


Hydrogen is also highly explosive, especially when you're working with high voltages and possible sparks.

Total Immersion Cooling using Mineral Oil is great. Mineral Oil is completely non-conductive, and it what's typically used by power companies to cool pole-mounted power transformers (Along with some extreme PC overclockers, who build systems in aquariums filled with oil). However, Mineral Oil is heavy, obviously, and can have issues with thermal expansion at 90c+, and gelling at under 5c. Or, if you really want safety and reliability, look into 3M Flourinert.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

how do you get the missing O2 into a pressure vessel that has positive pressure . Utilities have been using it since the 70's without indecent . If you could make all 2 or 3 cubic ft. mix with 20% O2 (air), how bad could a worst case explosion be under 1000 Btu , it wont even burn a newspaper laying on top of battery that I was charging @ 80-100 amps when a loose cable sparked , sounded like a gunshot , blew the top off the battery and acid all around . Its over before a fire can start . No worse then a ice backfire or a airbag , if a blowout diaphragm is installed you will have no containment damage . If the local fire dept. or DOT can't handle the idea of thermal nuclear Hydrogen bomb in your car ,LOL,which every car with a LA battery has ( per mixed stoichiometric [balanced fuel to O2 ratio]) , go with helium , if you can handle the car sounding like a chipmunk . LOL Good points on the oil cooling , no bad effects on the components ? I was concerned about the caps .


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Anarin , best small pickup I drove is a Volvo wagon or a Mercedes wagon . 3M does everything well .But not cheap .


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> how do you get the missing O2 into a pressure vessel that has positive pressure . .


you guys are so hardcore! ;-)

I was thinking about oil but it requires circulation system etc. A bit of overkill for the charger system I think. I am thinking of combining controller and charger on one liquid cold plate. Then 2 devices can be reduced in size / afford higher performance.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

The professor that runs the U C Davis ev program , had told me that oil cooling of the motor was almost imposable to get right . Well I can see erosion problems at high rev's and missing spots creating hot spots . So without looking into it further , the gas cooling would more easily handle all systems ( motor , controller , charger ) . Whatever system , active cooling will lead to smaller , lighter and more reliable systems .


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Got the components mounted on the liquid cooled heatsink. Now gotta wait 48 hours for the damn epoxy to cure!


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Got the components mounted on the liquid cooled heatsink. Now gotta wait 48 hours for the damn epoxy to cure!


jackbauer, a First GREAT JOB, THANK YOU for your efforts!!!

Just wanted to ask what kind epoxy are you using? Is this would be enough to transfer the heat, or some sort of "indent" needed for coils? 

Thank you.
-Youri.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Its supposed to be a thermally conductive potting compound. Soon see if it works!


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Very nice , I'm trying to ID the parts . I was thinking of how to work a mechanical switch in a oil or gas cooled box sealed box . Get a stainless ball valve , cut body off , weld or braze the stem / seal on to box and you have a sealed threw hull rotary actuator .


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Interesting thought. I have been looking at a way to power the heater in the car from the mains so as I could pre heat the cabin with mains power. I've also been looking at some radiator / fan options for the charger. Sooo why not run the charger coolant loop through the heater matrix and rig a relay to turn the blower on when the car is charging. Might kill 2 birds ...


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

By charging early morning you could get a wormed up car on those cold mornings .


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Damien, 
I have a question: Have you manufactured cooling plate yourself or purchased it from someone? 

What is the size?

Do you have any pics how it looks inside?

Thank you.
-Y


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

very interesting. if the timing is right, of course. which will require RTC. Damien - I remember you were trying to add that circuit to the charger - any updates? Would love to add to design.

Built another unit in the last couple of days - with a single large fan, PWM controlled depending on sink temperature. Will post some pics soon.

Got a power factor meter. PFC works - phase angle of 185-188 degrees, power factor generally more than 97% in variety of power levels.

Finally, measured efficiency with a true power meter. 32A 115V battery output (3.7kW) consumes 4.2kW from the 240V mains - 88% efficiency. PFC does take its toll... 

Thanks,
V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

1-ev.com said:


> Damien,
> I have a question: Have you manufactured cooling plate yourself or purchased it from someone?
> 
> What is the size?
> ...


Not sure about Damien's, but I found good single-pass plates on ebay for ~$110 shipped (8x12", with 8x11" usable space). These are designed for bars to cool liquids etc. They need to be milled flat which is not a big deal..


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

That chill plate I just happened upon on ebay from a surplus supplier. It came a with a couple of 3 phase solid state relays! I haven't looked at the rtc just yet. Been busy with work stuff. I usually charge in the early morning from approx 4am so it would be ideal to use the waste charger heat to warm the passenger cabin and demist the windows.

Purchased this radiator :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380354337324?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Its designed for two 120mm fans or will fit neatly into the heater matrix housing on the bmw.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

valerun said:


> Not sure about Damien's, but I found good single-pass plates on ebay for ~$110 shipped (8x12", with 8x11" usable space). These are designed for bars to cool liquids etc. They need to be milled flat which is not a big deal..


Valery, thank you. Are those for liquid cooling?

I have CNC-lathe, so I can make my own. I was thinking to buy already manufactured, it should be cheaper...

-Y


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

1-ev.com said:


> Valery, thank you. Are those for liquid cooling?
> 
> I have CNC-lathe, so I can make my own. I was thinking to buy already manufactured, it should be cheaper...
> 
> -Y


Yes, normally used to run liquid to be cooled inside the plate, while plate is immersed in ice. Typically used in bars etc to chill water, coke, etc for drinks ;-)


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Nice looking exchanger . I'm thinking about separating some of the cooling system for reliability reasons , maybe just a few valves or plugs , tees and a little hose with clamps for that down on the side of the road . maybe overkill ?


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

I've a quetion about single phase. First I thought 230Vac is 325Vdc. But if I look at this wiki I get confused:

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...ngspannungen.PNG&filetimestamp=20110126205058

Thist is a graph of three phase, and it shows a max voltage difference between a phase and neutral of +325V to -325V. I thought single phase power is just one phase of three phase power. 

In my limmited understaning I expect, if I connect a single phase to a rectifier bridge and a capacitor, a potential difference of 650Vdc? What am I missing?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

230v is the rms value. It actually swings +/- 311v if memory serves. Rectified 230v typically results in an on load dc bus of about 310vdc.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> 230v is the rms value. It actually swings +/- 311v if memory serves. Rectified 230v typically results in an on load dc bus of about 310vdc.


230V is the rms (root 2) of 325V, but... between neutral and one phase there is never more than 325V difference. Negative and positive. So I can understand that from an AC point of view it's 230V rms. It doesn't care if it is 0-230V+ or 0-230V-, the difference in rms is 230V.

But rectified and connected to a capacitor the currenct can never reverse, so at the positive end of the capacitor the voltage will rise to 325V+ and at the negative side it will become eventually 325V-, making a potential difference of a whopping 650V... Not?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Jan said:


> 230V is the rms (root 2) of 325V, but... between neutral and one phase there is never more than 325V difference. Negative and positive. So I can understand that from an AC point of view it's 230V rms. It doesn't care if it is 0-230V+ or 0-230V-, the difference in rms is 230V.
> 
> But rectified and connected to a capacitor the currenct can never reverse, so at the positive end of the capacitor the voltage will rise to 325V+ and at the negative side it will become eventually 325V-, making a potential difference of a whopping 650V... Not?


you can get 650VDC out of 230VAC if you 'catch' the top of the positive sinusoid half with one diode and the bottom of the negative half with another diode. That's how the voltage doubler works. For schematics, check out our charger schematics at http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Quick update. 

Fully assembled 10kW PFC charger tested on our new BMW conversion for a couple of full charges (32A CC, 311V CV). Still air cooled and still on a 10x8" heatsink but took an 80W automotive radiator fan. With speed control depending on temperature so relatively efficient.

In the new layout, everything (including a heatsink) is enclosed in a 11x12x8" steel box. This way, nothing is sticking out and fan runs air in the box, preventing any hotspots for the components not on the heatsink.

Seems that 11x12x8" is the right size for this charger with air cooling. ~10W / in^3. 

Will post more pics detailing assembly soon.

Also started working on a modular design inspired by the VICOR modules. Would love to get your feedback on the overall system design. 

There will be the following modules one could assemble / buy kits for:
1. Control module providing all the supply voltages, gate drive signal, and LCD. It will be taking in thermistor inputs and voltage / current inputs 
V from slave modules.
2. 3kW 400V PFC module. Mounted inside a milled aluminum heat spreader, with built-in thermistor.
3. 3kW 20A buck charger module. Mounted inside a milled aluminum heat spreader, with built-in thermistor and gate input.

At 3kW, these could be based on smaller IGBTs and run at 30-50kHz, reducing the size of the modules further. 

Both PFC and buck heat spreaders will be designed to be connected either to a finned heatsink for air cooling or chill plate for liquid cooling.

A user would be able to connect arbitrary number of buck modules in parallel using the same gate drive. A PFC module can be connected to each buck module to get the proper PF correction if desired.

The only open question is whether to do the isolation at the PFC stage. If yes, how exactly.

Any thoughts?

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I think that's a great idea. Especially if available in kit form with the "difficult" components. Personally , I'm not hugely concerned about isolation. It's a nice to have not a need to have. In fact looking at it this way. If a short occurs from hv to chassis with a non isolated charger the gfi will pop thus alerting the user to a problem. That has actually happen to me. In any event , modern sub 10mA trip gfis make it virtually impossible to receive a fatal to earth shock.

I made a bit of progress over the weekend on the liquid cooled design. I'm fitting all the hardware for use with 3 phase but will do initial tests on single. Inductors are wired in parallel for 500uH. Enclosure , pump and npt hose barbs on order.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> you can get 650VDC out of 230VAC if you 'catch' the top of the positive sinusoid half with one diode and the bottom of the negative half with another diode. That's how the voltage doubler works. For schematics, check out our charger schematics at http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl.


I can see what you do with 120Vac, Val. Connecting Neutral to the middle of two capacitors, and the phase rectified over the positive and negative end of the both. That way I could get 650Vdc with 230Vac. If I want.

But I still don't understand why I won't get 650Vdc with the simple setup of 1 rectifier and 1 capacitor... More lessons to learn.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Hi Valerun,

I'm very interested in this charger, but concerned about AC current spikes on the o'scope shot on your website where you say: 

"Hardware current limiting: an output current sensor signal passed through a 1-microsecond RC-filter feeds into comparator and is compared with reference voltage set based on target current output (set via D6 PWM pin filtered through low-pass RC). When instantaneous current exceeds reference value for >2-3us, PWM is stopped. Primary function of this circuit is to suppress 120Hz ripple that is VERY pronounced at high current levels - see scope screenshot below (peaks are at 120A - with average output current of 40A! I was not sure that's good for my batteries so I've designed this circuit in...). Useful side benefit is a short-circuit protection."

Looks like there are also higher frequency spikes present, no? Do you have a shot of what the output looks like with your additional current suppression circuit? 

I am looking for about 170V/60A max DC output on 240VAC input and about 170V/12A DC on 120VAC input.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

Are these Thyristor/ Diode Modules any good for this purpose? They're used in motordrives to rectify the AC current. 

http://www.rell.com/resources/RellDocuments/SYS_24/609903.pdf
http://www.pwrx.com/summary/thyristor-diode.aspx


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Looks like there are also higher frequency spikes present, no? Do you have a shot of what the output looks like with your additional current suppression circuit?
> 
> I am looking for about 170V/60A max DC output on 240VAC input and about 170V/12A DC on 120VAC input.


Will post some scope shots. There will be some high-frequency noise on the scope but that will be EMI-induced. I will show that by taking a shot of the scope with probe shorted - you will see same amplitude HF noise there, as well.

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Enclosure turned up today. Everything seems to fit well. I have decided to make a clear polycarbonate "sub cover" that will fit just under the steel lid and carry all the control system and display. The lid will have suitable cuttouts for these.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Enclosure turned up today. Everything seems to fit well. I have decided to make a clear polycarbonate "sub cover" that will fit just under the steel lid and carry all the control system and display. The lid will have suitable cuttouts for these.


Beautiful - I gather from the pic that you are building PFC version, correct? 

Still playing with the modular charger idea. Did some testing with smaller FETs and found it (again) really hard to push significant power through those. PFC is significantly more stressful for components than buck. Peak inductor current is ~1.6 of RMS input current PLUS inductor ripple - so easily can be 2x of RMS input current. At 3kW from 110V line, this can be 60A. Not very healthy. That's why I like these IGBT bricks so much - they can take all that abuse no problem.

So as a result, am thinking of larger modules again but with different splits:
1. 10-15kW buck module - box 1. Use case - at home when you can afford low PF or off 3-phase input when you don't need as much power factor correction to begin with. Would include input caps wired as voltage doubler and 110/220V relay to switch it, 70W power supply for gates and fan, and power FET for fan control. This module takes external gate drive signal. These can be stacked to get near-arbitrary power levels. 
2. Buck control box. Includes Arduino control board, LCD, control buttons, and a small 12V power supply just for Arduino. Will take in all the inputs from sensors through one shielded Ethernet cable and provide gate drive output through another shielded cable. Need only one of these per system.
3. 7-8kW master PFC stage - box 2. Will include PFC control board and 70W power supply for gates and fan control. Use case: public charging stations or when full utilization of AC power is otherwise essential. Has small output caps (just for stability as bulk caps will be placed in the buck stage), takes rectfied AC input (as rectifiers are in the buck stage already), outputs 380VDC power at 20A and gate signal to drive additional PFC slaves. 
4. 7-8kW slave PFC stage - box 2.1. Same as #2 only no control board, takes PFC gate signal from the master. This allows equal load sharing (within tolerances of an inductor)

What do you guys think???

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm actually going non pfc for this version. What I actually believe is most important is that an open source high power programmable charger is now available to the ev community. Whatever form it may take. Even a little 1.5kw charger from chennic would have cost more than the parts and would not be upgradable or reprogrammable. I will be adding IEC61851 mode 3 functionallity to this design once its up and running. Will be a long time before any of the major manufacturers offer that and at what cost?

My original implementation of this design is running happy over one year later. Never once has it failed to terminate charge properly. The one failure it suffered was due to my using a dodgy ebay bus cap. Breaker tripped , swapped cap , back up and running in 30 mins. In an industry swamped with unobtanium and imaginary products its a breath of fresh air.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Radiator assembly with two 120mm high flow rate 240v ac fans fitted. Ports are 1/4". Its a Koolace HX-CU720VS for anyone interested. Copper core radiator used for server water cooling. Bout $50 on ebay.


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## drdhdmd (Aug 5, 2007)

Has anyone actually built and used one of these successfully? I have a PFC20b and need more current output.


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

drdhdmd said:


> Has anyone actually built and used one of these successfully? I have a PFC20b and need more current output.


Considering that valerun has the kits available on his web site and he has been doing much of the design and testing work that would be a yes. Maybe you should check out http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl as given in the first posts to this thread.


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

I would also like to hear about the experiences of someone who has purchased the kit, assembled it, configured the unit to their pack, and used the charger as their primary charger in an EV. A review would be nice. Any one out there that has purchased the kit, and is now using it?? Thanks,

JACK


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

gravelydude said:


> I would also like to hear about the experiences of someone who has purchased the kit, assembled it, configured the unit to their pack, and used the charger as their primary charger in an EV. A review would be nice. Any one out there that has purchased the kit, and is now using it?? Thanks,
> 
> JACK


Hey Guys - I'll ask some of the guys who did that to chime in. Can't guarantee they will but I'll ask ;-)

Also, jackbauer looks to be very close to completion on his build.

V


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## gravelydude (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks Valerun. That would be great. I respect and enjoy reading Jack's input in the forum as well as his videos; but you and Jack are way above the knowledge level of most DIY EV converters. Accordingly, I would rather hear from an electrical novice that has successfully completed one of your kits. Thanks again,

JACK


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## drdhdmd (Aug 5, 2007)

GizmoEV said:


> Considering that valerun has the kits available on his web site and he has been doing much of the design and testing work that would be a yes. Maybe you should check out http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl as given in the first posts to this thread.


I did check out their web site and I've called them 3 times and left 3 messages. So far not one call back. 

Of course this still doesn't answer my question about whether or not anyone has indeed bought a kit from them and got it working.

I am interested in doing this but I prefer not to be their first customer....


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

I have a question about the charger as it relates to the PFC stage.

The estimate for the base unit is 95% efficient. That would mean that you are losing 500 watts somewhere.

You indicate your site that the PFC seems to consume 500watts in switching to correct the power factor. How does this effect the efficiency of the base unit? I'm assuming that it helps but by how much?

Have you done some additional real world testing on these units to get real wall to battery efficiencies? If so how does the base unit compare to the PFC fed unit?

I'm very much interested in the PF corrected unit, and I'm hoping that the wall to battery efficiency is better than the 90% (95% pfc plus 95% charger) that the numbers posted on your site suggest.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

drdhdmd said:


> I am interested in doing this but I prefer not to be their first customer....
> 
> then you can bee second, I have bought the pcb, igbt and display from valerun.
> 
> ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

palmer_md said:


> I have a question about the charger as it relates to the PFC stage.
> 
> The estimate for the base unit is 95% efficient. That would mean that you are losing 500 watts somewhere.
> 
> ...


Hi Palmer - 

yes, 90% is a good estimate I think for the PFC version. At half-load (5kW), measured at 88%. Buck stage is ~95% efficient but lower power factor, of course. 

We will do some more measurement this week (completing design and build of a modular system now as per one of my recent posts here).

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> still missing the 100A hall sensor and cables for the display. someday.


I believe we had them sent a while ago. Hm, ok, will resend.



nfj said:


> For the software part.... It is farrrrr... from finish and could need some tweaking, and the measurement part should be better. !


Appreciate your feedback. Please check the latest version on the site - there were a number of improvements since your order.

This is also a beauty of open source - you are free to make it do whatever you want. I aim to provide a platform (software, hardware) upon which you guys will improve and build.

I'd love to get your specific comments on design (please do check out the latest code on the site, though ;-)

Thanks!
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

drdhdmd said:


> I did check out their web site and I've called them 3 times and left 3 messages. So far not one call back.
> 
> Of course this still doesn't answer my question about whether or not anyone has indeed bought a kit from them and got it working.
> 
> I am interested in doing this but I prefer not to be their first customer....


Hi Dave, 

Got your last message. Sorry took a while to respond - we were on the road for most of the last 2 weeks - EVCCON in Missouri, launch of our first conversion solution for BMW 3-series, and a couple of car shows. At times like this, we are way more reachable through email or forum (generally 24 hours reply time).

Anyway, to address your questions:
1. We had ~20 kits shipped to date. 
2. It does take a bit of time to complete the build (as mentioned on our site) - this is not a simple 'solder parts together' task - you have to pay attention to layouts, ensure adequate cooling, etc. I would not recommend a complete electronics novice to do this. Largely because if anything goes wrong, it will be quite hard to troubleshoot remotely. 
3. We are about to announce complete units availability for this design - novices would probably be better off just buying that.

Because of the time it usually takes to build (we got this down to ~15-20 hours parts-to-tested-unit in our lab but we have built ~10 already so quite a bit of learning baked into these times). If you don't have prior experience building complex electronics projects, I'd say it will take 50 hours to build and test.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!
V


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> novices would probably be better off just buying that.
> 
> ...


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Software !
" Maxbatvoltage " how do we get there ? how do we start ? how do we end ? . 

" charge curve " how should it bee ? how fast do we get there ? and how much Amp to put in at the time ?

"check " is the batteri ok to charge ? do the batteri take the Amp(timewhise) . can we check, did we get there last time .

This is some of the questions I have been asking myself 

regards - nfj


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> Software !
> " Maxbatvoltage " how do we get there ? how do we start ? how do we end ? .
> 
> " charge curve " how should it bee ? how fast do we get there ? and how much Amp to put in at the time ?
> ...


sure:

1. Maxbatvoltage is not used in normal operations. It is a safeguard against incorrect user settings. You can, as a user, set arbitrary CV point for the charger. Maxbatvoltage will override you if you are going beyond the safe boundary. set at 3.8V for LiFePo4 which I think is a good compromise. 

2. not sure what you mean by charge curve. The charger operates as CC/CV supply with programmable C for CC step and V for CV step. That's all there is to the curve. The user programs output current and CV cutoff. Usually any output current below 0.3C is super-safe for the batteries. Higher currents are also fine as long as the batteries do not heat up.

3. not sure what you mean by "check". The charger automatically shuts off when current drops to certain value after reaching CV point. If batteries don't 'take the current', this will happen earlier. Either way, no damage is possible to the batteries. There is also minbattvoltage parameter that prevents the charger from starting if the battery voltage too low (<2.5V in LiFePo4 case). 

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

valerun said:


> sure:
> 
> 1. Maxbatvoltage is not used in normal operations. It is a safeguard against incorrect user settings. You can, as a user, set arbitrary CV point for the charger. Maxbatvoltage will override you if you are going beyond the safe boundary. set at 3.8V for LiFePo4 which I think is a good compromise.
> OK: lets call it endOfcharge indput
> ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> chargecurve: ? when you conect the batteri and mesure the voltage
> and you know the Ah of the batteri, determin how meny Ah to put in, and if you not get there on time, report a fail
> And I dont like that the C rises so fast, it should be in steps.





nfj said:


> Check: if the voltage rise to fast dependent of the Chargecurve: report fail
> regards nfj


You can't know AH of the LiFePo4 battery by measuring voltage. Discharge curve is too flat for any reliable measure. If in the middle of the curve, you might be able to guess within 20-30% at best. 

In any case, the charger would shut off when hitting the preset CV voltage, avoiding damage to the batteries under any scenario. What failure mode are you trying to avoid. To my knowledge, no LiFePo4 charger today has this kind of functionality...

All LiFePo4 batteries are spec'ed by their manufacturers to be charged at 0.3C until preset CV (3.6V in case of CALBs, somewhat different for other manufacturers), then maintaining that CV until the current hits 0.05C. There are no steps recommended for output current. I'm all for safer charging but I just haven't seen any studies showing that manufacturer-recommended charge profiles are not the best ones... I'd love to get a reference to such studies if they exist.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Little video of the charger build so far and a wet run of the cooling system :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFqI0DLOGFU


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Mounted the radiator on the enclosure today with a piece of aluminium angle and some 6mm threaded rod. Still not sure if I will mount the radiator in the passenger cabin. Depends on the amount of heat it pumps out!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Mounted the radiator on the enclosure today with a piece of aluminium angle and some 6mm threaded rod. Still not sure if I will mount the radiator in the passenger cabin. Depends on the amount of heat it pumps out!


looks very serious, Damien! ;-)

very interested in your experience with liquid cooling. We will probably go for liquid cooling in our production designs - for motor (new Netgain liquid-cooled), controller and charger.

Finally figured the right box and fan system for the air cooled 10kW charger with PFC. That PFC stage adds quite a bit of waste heat. At 30A 343V output, heatsink is stabilized at 53 degrees C. not bad but the thing sounds a bit like a jet engine spooling up ;-)

Will be testing the first modular system (with 2 parallel 10kW modules) next week!

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

some photos from one of the latest builds (this is the unit currently in the BMW). Also a couple from a recent run at full power on a 98-cell pack (343VDC CV cutoff). The meter in the picture is a power and power factor meter. It shows 10.42kW AC input, 359 degree power factor angle (equivalent to 0.998 power factor = cosine of the angle). The screen shows 29A output at 332V which is ~9.65kW. So looks like ~750W of loss, or ~92% efficiency. Although should be taken with a grain of salt given that this is a subtraction of the two large, similar numbers.

As mentioned in the previous post, heat removal for a 10kW PFC unit in a small box is an interesting task. We will be testing some liquid cooled units this week.

V


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## Jaesin (Mar 6, 2011)

It looks fantastic. Really nice!

I would love to see a schematic of the latest PFC version, All together.

I am still trying to piece all the pieces together in my head.

I have a couple of 3 terminal half bridge Semikron fast switching IGBT's with built in secondary diodes but they are only 75 amp modules (SKM75GAR063D diagram attached). 
I figure they should work as long as I limit the output current. I just want to check that this assumption is correct.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Jaesin said:


> It looks fantastic. Really nice!
> 
> I would love to see a schematic of the latest PFC version, All together.
> 
> ...


yes, we need to update the schematics. Will try to get to is in the next few days. Testing the new modular design takes most of the time now.

These modules will work but you will be limited on power. The charger stage will be totally fine - all the way up to the rated 60A output of the charger. Where you will have problems is PFC stage - peak currents there can be over 120A at 10kW. You would need to derate the peak power of the charger in firmware (or just select output current accordingly).

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Some more progress on the charger build. Got the control stage built up on a piece of 6mm clear polycarbonate. All of the i/o to the control board are terminated on a piece of barrier strip. Also mounted on the polycarbonate are the display screen and the push buttons. Mounted two epcos 4700uf 400v caps in the main enclosure and a piece of din rail for the input rcbo , earth point and output fuse. Also mounted a 12v 5A dc power supply for the logic and coolant pump.

Can't wait to fire this thing up


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

That is nice work Jack. I've only gotten the control board assembled and sort of figured out how I want to place the power components. I did hook up the 100A hall board to a single cell charger I built from Vicor modules. I didn't have a good way to monitor up 80 amps and this seems to work nicely although I did have to drill out the hole in the board because it is too small to handle 10 gauge wire. I think you could probably get 8 gauge through the hall sensor. The 10 gauge is warm with just 40 amps so I will limit to that for the single cell charger for now.

Thanks for posting the pictures! You have given me some more ideas.


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## Jaesin (Mar 6, 2011)

Nice work fellas, Any tips on inductor sources and cap values? 
I have a ton of transformers laying around, might I be able to remove the secondaries and use the primary side of one of those?

Where are you guys getting those fat toroids? I didn't see any that large on ebay.


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## charliehorse55 (Sep 23, 2011)

How difficult would it be to modify this to charge up to 450V? Could it be as simple as buying components rated for a higher voltage?

The higher voltage chargers are really expensive, which is why I'd love to use something like this instead.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

charliehorse55 said:


> How difficult would it be to modify this to charge up to 450V? Could it be as simple as buying components rated for a higher voltage?
> 
> The higher voltage chargers are really expensive, which is why I'd love to use something like this instead.


Hi Charlie - yes. We actually had one of our units built with 1200V devices and got it to work at ~650VDC so it's definitely possible. You can get the IGBT half-bridge modules 200A 1200V on ebay new for ~$100 each (you need 2). Rest is relatively inexpensive.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Its alive!!! Alive I say! Had two small problems. Seems my secondhand 3 phase bridge rectifer had a shorted diode. Fortunatly , I powered up with a light bulb in series with the mains supply (old habits die hard!) so no damage was done. Moral of that story : don't use cheap second hand parts. Next the display told me my mains bus was at -900vdc. I missed out two pins on the arduino and pcb. Once they were fitted it ran up no problem with 300w of light bulb load. Now running a 240v 2500w electric oven element as per the photos. I'll have some video and more photos later if it doesn't explode


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Its alive!!! Alive I say! Had two small problems. Seems my secondhand 3 phase bridge rectifer had a shorted diode. Fortunatly , I powered up with a light bulb in series with the mains supply (old habits die hard!) so no damage was done. Moral of that story : don't use cheap second hand parts. Next the display told me my mains bus was at -900vdc. I missed out two pins on the arduino and pcb. Once they were fitted it ran up no problem with 300w of light bulb load. Now running a 240v 2500w electric oven element as per the photos. I'll have some video and more photos later if it doesn't explode


very nice, Damien! Have you tried running it up to 3-4kW? Should be possible with this element. I'd do that and then try batteries ;-)


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I took it up to about 3kw later on today then had a mishap! The battery sensing resistor got hot enough to burn through the insulation of the ground sense wire. Bang. And yes i got it on tape Took out the igbt , driver chip and dc dc converter. Vaporised the sense resistor. Got the bits swapped out and its now up and running again.

Here is some video from earlier tests :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-xeX9GZ19s

I have to say I'm very impressed so far. No temp rise at all , very stable. I would like to identify the weird noise I observed on the scope in the video. Any ideas?


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

HI,
I was goin to ask if you where using a diff probe, but as the video shows you are. Id recommend borrowing a fast storage scope. Analog scopes are rather useless around power supplies. You cant zoom into anything with an analog scope.

That tapered dying Sine looks like an LC circuit ringing. That is likely to only occour during a longer off period of the igbt. 

Is the PWM signal itself modulated by a lower frequency on-off cycle?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I took it up to about 3kw later on today then had a mishap! The battery sensing resistor got hot enough to burn through the insulation of the ground sense wire. Bang. And yes i got it on tape Took out the igbt , driver chip and dc dc converter. Vaporised the sense resistor. Got the bits swapped out and its now up and running again.
> 
> Here is some video from earlier tests :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-xeX9GZ19s
> ...


did you mount the voltage sense resistor on the heatsink? The 5k resistor supplied dissipates ~20W at 100% duty cycle (330VDC from 240VAC)... We have started to change to 10k resistor for the higher-voltage units that operate beyond 200VDC output.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

No I didnt heatsink the resistor. My mistake. As the tab is non isolated i'll need to use a mounting kit. Here's the video of the pop 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZZOGMek0S0


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

5k for sensing 350VDC? !? Why is that extremely low value chosen?

If it is only part of a voltage divider, half a meg sounds more logic.
If you need more bandwidth you can bandwidth compensate it with some small caps.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Steven, The hall sensor used for pack voltage monitoring is 40mA fsd so i guess this is why the resistor need to let a good bit of current pass. Thanks for the tip on the scope.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Ok that is explained that. 

Ignore from here on.


Perhaps it can be upgraded in the future using an (linear) optocoupler with dual transistor output. That way a small current into the led produces two galvanicly isolated transfers to two transistors. The first is needed for the local feedback to an voltage sense amplifier ( opamp), the second output is for the reception @ the processor side (also requires an opamp).

The only down side is more parts and depending on the topology of the supply requires an additional aux supply output for the opamps.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> No I didnt heatsink the resistor. My mistake. As the tab is non isolated i'll need to use a mounting kit. Here's the video of the pop
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZZOGMek0S0


Damien- the tab on that resistor should be isolated... Please check the datasheet. We mount it to same heatsink as everything else without isolation


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just checked. Your right. Must have been a leadout wire that melted into the ground and caused the pop. Lesson learned I sent you an email about ordering a few spares.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just looking at the pfc circuit , how is the current sense resistor setup? I see on the calculation on the webpage 4m Ohms. Also is the high side igbt diode used as Dbst? Do you see any issues with having the pcf stage remote to the charger and the dc bus cabled between the two?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Just looking at the pfc circuit , how is the current sense resistor setup? I see on the calculation on the webpage 4m Ohms. Also is the high side igbt diode used as Dbst? Do you see any issues with having the pcf stage remote to the charger and the dc bus cabled between the two?


Hi Damien, 

We are using 3mOhm resistors in our builds (metal strip, rated for 5W I believe). The high-side IGBT diode is used as freewheel diode, yes. No issue with separating the two - this is how we run a few units here. All the AC components in PFC output are filtered by output caps (we have both film (right next to the IGBT terminals) and elcap) and you have the caps (film and elcap) on the input of the charger stage - so inductance of cables does not really matter. Now, if you decide to NOT have bulk cap in the PFC stage and rely on the input caps located remotely in the charger stage, you might have a bit higher chance of issues but we have not seen any in our builds.

You also had a questions about charger shifting frequencies. This is a designed feature in V06 firmware (latest posted on site). The charger constantly calculates the ripple current in the inductor and checks if it can reduce the switching frequency (or, conversely, needs to increase it) to stay below 40% ripple factor (generally accepted compromise for SMPS design). Lower switching frequency is good for reducing the AC losses throughout the system. With the inductors supplied as part of the full kit, the saturation formulas built into the firmware are accurate. If you use your own inductors, those might or might not work. Therefore, you might need to either (1) modify the constants in the code or (2) disable the feature altogether and fix the switching frequency to 16kHz (good compromise for IGBT-based design). 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Ehm guys, I've started to play again with my setup. I've placed 4 250V capacitors in series and between the middle two I placed a light buld as a charge resistor, en to be able to see what happens. It seems to work perfectly, the bulb lights up for a second or two and fades away. But... The voltage over the caps rises to 500V. And that (I suppose) is because my multimeter is max 500Vdc. If I short the bulb, the voltage stays that high. Nothing changes. 

I did not place the neutral between the caps, like Valerun does in its 110V schema. Just the + from the rectifiers to the + of the caps, and the - to the -.

It's actually what I expected that would happen, but what I'm told is not supposed to happen. Help...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Jan , not sure i understand what your doing. Could you do a little sketch?


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

The 4 capacitors are each 250V. And the lightbulb is a small 25W 230V bulb.

I would expect 320-325Vdc over the caps, but it is at least 499V.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

ok understand now. My bus runs at around 320vdc with a 230vac input. That said I am using one 400v 4700uf cap. Try this. Put two caps in series on the dc side instead of 4 and put the bulb on the ac side of the bridge.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Jan said:


> It's actually what I expected that would happen, but what I'm told is not supposed to happen. Help...


highly unusual. at peak AC voltage I would expect just below 400V on your caps...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Finally received my replacement 5k 20w thick film sense resistor today and mounted it to the heatsink. Also received the Unitrend power meter. Did a few runs at a little over 2kw this evening :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nht9uT_7_pI


I have 3 more 2500w cooker oven elements ordered for 10kw total load. Once they turn up the fun can really start


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Jack, 

I did it a little differently. I attached an extra light bulb as 'The Load'. 

Without the load turned off [edited] it goes streight to 499V.
With the the load switched on it drops to 330-340V. And the charge resister bulb glowes a tiny little bit. Not much current over there. 

After switched off again is goes quickly to 470-480V and then it slowly greeps o aprox 497V.

The aprox 335V under load seems OK. I suppose if the load really gets serious it will drop even lower. 

And it looks like it doesn't exceed really 500V. Not much. I think I can live with this.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> highly unusual. at peak AC voltage I would expect just below 400V on your caps...


Why, Valerun?


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Jack, nice you got a storage scope now to see what it sort of looks like. Try borrowing a deep memeory scope next time.  

As I expected, the IGBT stops. Can you add the AC mains voltage signal on channel B to see where in the period it stops? It appears to me it stop where the AC mains period crosses zero.

About the 'dancing'.. was the scope set to AC input ? 

The voltage accros the IGBT might be off to a little worry. It appears to turn on fine until it is 2/3 or 3/4 of the way where it kinks into a much lower dv/dt. Saturation of the inductors might cause this. Iron power inductance drops of fast above a certain amounts of tesla. 

Are there more inductors of different magnetic core material / turn-count in series? If the voltage across the IGBT does not reach its saturation voltage you may loose one sooner than later.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Jan said:


> Why, Valerun?


Jan, it really makes no sense to get 500V from 230Vac.


Are you using a battery operated volt/multi-meter or a bench-top unit?


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

steven4601 said:


> Jan, it really makes no sense to get 500V from 230Vac.
> 
> 
> Are you using a battery operated volt/multi-meter or a bench-top unit?


Battery operated multimeter. It seems to work just fine. 

Why doesn't it make any sense? The peak voltage difference in 230Vac is 650V. I was expecting that it would rise eventually to this 650V, but I was told that it would not go further than 325v. Now I have 500V. A trade off. Compromis. Everybody happy.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

What are you implying ? You can alter the laws of physics? 

It is rather foolish to accept 500V there.


Assuming 230Vac to Neutral.
The only way to get 500+ volts there if you'd be connecting it between two phases of a 3-phase source. L1 & L2 or L2 & L3 or L1 & L3.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

steven4601 said:


> What are you implying ? You can alter the laws of physics?
> 
> It is rather foolish to accept 500V there.
> 
> ...


I don't imply anything, Steven. Just give you my measurements. You can build the little circuit yourselve and show me your readings.

Why can't a single phase that cycles between +325V to -325V not charge a capacitor to 500V? My expection was that it eventually would go to 650V. Why doesn't it do that? What's so special about 325V or what I measure nearly 500V?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Ok guys I'm a moron. I had the probe connected across the freewheel diode not the switch! Doh

Jan , a 230v rms voltage does indeed swing a peak to peak of over 600v. When its full wave rectified , the bottom half of the waveform is flipped up and the peak voltage now becomes approx 330v. You can create a 500v dc bus using a voltage doubler which effectively uses the two half cycles stacked on top of each other. Hope that makes sense!


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Jan said:


> I don't imply anything, Steven. Just give you my measurements. You can build the little circuit yourselve and show me your readings.
> 
> Why can't a single phase that cycles between +325V to -325V not charge a capacitor to 500V? My expection was that it eventually would go to 650V. Why doesn't it do that? What's so special about 325V or what I measure nearly 500V?



Here, I used isolated 40VAC from a transformer for safety as I do not have enough diffprobe's.

CH2 Green is the rectified DC into a 100nF capacitor
CH 3& 4 Blue and Purple are the AC inputs referenced from the negative rectifier terminal. Pink is a MATH function (CH 3 - CH4) to show the AC input voltage.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Mmm... It's not really the same, I seems to me you reasen to what you expect. I will measure tomorow again. And try to check/calibrate my multimeter. 

I feel the need to repeat myself: I do not expect 500V, I did not calculate 500V. I *measure* 500V.

Edit: Maybe tomorrow. My life is not completely mine.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Mmm... New battery in the Multimeter and it is all as it's supposed to be: 310V over the caps... No panic anymore.


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Ah that is too bad. ehhh, I mean that is good!

But I would have posted this rather funny picture/link if you insisted it was still 500V








http://xkcd.com/386/


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Quick update. Finally received a box of 2500w electric oven elements. Wired up two and powered up. The charger kinda looked at em and said "Whats this? an led?" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_oRLafzys


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Quick update. Finally received a box of 2500w electric oven elements. Wired up two and powered up. The charger kinda looked at em and said "Whats this? an led?"
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_oRLafzys


checked out your video. looking good there. liquid cooling is pretty cool (pun intended ;-)) definitely using it for all our conversions going forward. So much space saving, too!

I am surprised your inductors are running so cool... can you post a datasheet or some info on those?

thx! V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

The benefits of liquid cooling are huge. Yes its more work an complexity to implement but well worth it in the end. Some people go way overboard with stainless braided hose etc and it ends up costing a fortune. We're not trying to cool an ICE with tens of kw of waste heat. Just a few transistors with a kw or two at most. But very concentrated in a small area.

The inductors came from a junk 3 phase ups where they were used to smooth the output from a controlled rectifier. They measured up at 1mH on my cheap ebay lcr meter. I used two in parallel. They are very well bonded to the heatsink with this thermal epoxy:
http://radionics.rs-online.com/web/...976652065706F78792673633D592677633D4E4F4E4526

My next plan is to get a block of aluminium and mill out the profile of an inductor. Then use that compound to pot it into the block. Can then be easilly heatsink mounted.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Right , latest update:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qBZpjRyEsM

Now running the charger into 4 x 2500w heating elements. After one hour of running peak inductor temp was 45C. Unfortunatly , the heating elements started a fire but wasn't serious


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Right , latest update:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qBZpjRyEsM
> 
> Now running the charger into 4 x 2500w heating elements. After one hour of running peak inductor temp was 45C. Unfortunatly , the heating elements started a fire but wasn't serious


WOW. 

good stuff! time to hook into batteries??? ;-)


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Ran the charger on the traction battery for the first time this morning and all i can say is Holy Crap! Upgraded to v06 firmware , ran about 20ah out of the pack then hooked up the charger with some jump leads. Set for 48 cell , 64ah , max imput current 30A , max output current 32A (0.5C) , did the voltage cal and let her rip. First thing I noticed is the switching freq started at 16khz instead of 10khz when i had been running v04 on the heating elements. After a minute or two this popped up to 20khz and the charger ran silent. No sounds other than fans and coolant pump. Now for the really cool part (pun!) , peak heatsink temp was only 22C at 4.2kw.Ambient about 10C. I'm guessing the higher switching freq makes things happier. Power factor hovered between 0.996 and 0.998 which is really amazing considering there is no active pfc in this build.

The charger had enough power at 30amps input (230v) to blow through the cc phase and switch over to cv. It held the pack voltage to within 0.5V of actual voltage measured at the terminals. I didnt have time to let it run all the way to shutoff but thats the next test. I'll do a deep discharge and complete charge.

Val , is there any way to mod the code to let it run on the dummy load with v06? ie skip the pack voltage chaeck like on v04? Btw does the filter circuit code need a mod to run with 50hz mains input? ie 100hz ripple instead of 120hz? Oh and if you're ever in Ireland i'll buy you a drink cos this is one hell of a charger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8PdJDBVqg


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Now that the charger is running I'm looking at making it respond to the control pilot signal provided by the evse. It is a 1khz square wave whose duty cycle represents the maximum current available from the supply. See the attached schematic. The pwm is fed into D1 , R3 and R4. SW1 determins state B or state C. When in state c (power on) the signal will be at 6v and pwm at a period defined in both iec61851 and j1772 specifications. This signal is fed into buffer amplifier X1 and into a low pass filter comprised of R1 , R2 and C1 which convert the pwm signal into a steady state dc voltage of between approx 1v and 4v depending on pwm duty cycle. This is then fed into arduino pin A4 where it can be used in software to set charger input power.

Now i just gotta learn ardunio ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Now that the charger is running I'm looking at making it respond to the control pilot signal provided by the evse. It is a 1khz square wave whose duty cycle represents the maximum current available from the supply. See the attached schematic. The pwm is fed into D1 , R3 and R4. SW1 determins state B or state C. When in state c (power on) the signal will be at 6v and pwm at a period defined in both iec61851 and j1772 specifications. This signal is fed into buffer amplifier X1 and into a low pass filter comprised of R1 , R2 and C1 which convert the pwm signal into a steady state dc voltage of between approx 1v and 4v depending on pwm duty cycle. This is then fed into arduino pin A4 where it can be used in software to set charger input power.
> 
> Now i just gotta learn ardunio ...


Damien - here's how we do it (this is not tested yet but we will test in the next few days - as soon as I get a new shipment from Rush of TucsonEV - those J1772 inlets and plugs). Anyway, you do not really need any additional circuitry on top of what you already have in the charger. You just need one Arduino digital pin that you connect to the pilot through a 1.1-1.2k resistor. Then you make it listen to the pilot signal, counting time of high vs. low state and get J1772 PWM duty and therefore current from that. Then you turn the pin from high-impedance input state to low-impedance output state and set to LOW. That will pull the pilot down and EVSE should respond with turning on the power to your unit. 

Note that for this you need to have source of power for your Arduino before you get it from the J1772 mains...

V

code (some other changes need to be made in a couple of places - mostly definitions changing from const int to int etc). First few lines are old code so you can see where we place the J1772 fragment
-----
void loop() { 
// ---------------real loop()
float pwr;
mainsV=read_mV();
outV=readV();

// this is the right place for J1772 lookup
// check if there is a signal
pinMode(pin_J1772, INPUT);
int sum=0;
for(x=0; x<1000; x++) {
sum+=digitalRead(pin_J1772);
delay(1);
}
// adjust max power based on readout
if(sum>50) { // noise control; also, failsafe if power connected is NOT J1772
absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*sum*6/100; // from J1772 specs, every 1% duty corresponds to 0.6A input current
// enable power now
pinMode(pin_J1772, OUTPUT);
digitalWrite(pin_J1772, LOW); // this pulls down the pilot signal pin and enables J1772 output
}
---------------


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Nice solution. The only problem I see is that it would be what is reffered to as simplified mode 3 in the iec61851 spec (don't think this applies to j1772) and the evse would limit output current to 10amps. In order to achieve full current the vehicle must go from state B to state C. Not difficult to do. I'll have a rethink.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Scratch that i'm wrong. Just wire the pilot through the diode and 2k7 to ground and route the 1k3 to the arduino pin. Now the arduino can control state b and c. Full mode 3. Neat I'll see if i can rig this up during the week as I have a Ducati home charge point i can test with.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Scratch that i'm wrong. Just wire the pilot through the diode and 2k7 to ground and route the 1k3 to the arduino pin. Now the arduino can control state b and c. Full mode 3. Neat I'll see if i can rig this up during the week as I have a Ducati home charge point i can test with.


yes, exactly. let me know how it works for you.

Finally got to running 2 chargers in parallel today - not bad. 16kW into the pack. Tripped the 60A line breaker after 20 min. Time to rewire the garage for 100A ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

on J1772:

Damien just had a very good point: the J1772 code I posted needs to work before the AC mains are on. Which is an issue for all our chargers that are working off the AC mains with the internal 12V AC adapter providing power for electronics. 

My preliminary answer to this is: just hardwire the whole resistor-diode circuit to be active on plug-in. 2.7k, 1.3k, and diode. Then EVSE will switch the power on as soon as I plug in. Then the code I posted would work. Charger would just need to read the pilot signal (that will still be there, just 6V amplitude, not 12) and determine the power available. And you don't even need to switch the pin to OUTPUT mode...

What do you think?

Valery


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Two parallel chargers sound like fun. My next move will be 3 phase! Anyway I have done some thinking and see a few problems with the j1772 hookup. First , it would apply a 9v and 6v square wave to the arduino input which might annoy it! Second as i said simplified mode 3 will result in max 10 amps out from the evse. At least in europe. See attached schematic as possible answer. Though it does need two io lines.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Two parallel chargers sound like fun. My next move will be 3 phase! Anyway I have done some thinking and see a few problems with the j1772 hookup. First , it would apply a 9v and 6v square wave to the arduino input which might annoy it! Second as i said simplified mode 3 will result in max 10 amps out from the evse. At least in europe. See attached schematic as possible answer. Though it does need two io lines.


Hm, still don't think you need any circuitry beyond the resistor-diode network. Just re-read the specs. No mention of the required delay between state B and C. So one can have diode and a 882R resistor connected in series between pilot and ground right away and EVSE should turn on AC and pilot PWM. What I would do re 6V is just split 882R into 150R and 750R and pick up the 5V signal off 750R. Makes sense? Still just one input pin needed. At least per J1772 specs in the US (attached).

V


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Nice idea on the resistor divider. Sadly here in Ireland the charge points use iec61851 standard which defines "simplified mode 3" as a diode and 882R resistor. It will enable the evse but only at 10amps output and only single phase so not much use for myself. I'll need to use state b and c to get full power hence my little fet based circuit. I'll build it up and test with the home charge point.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> Power factor hovered between 0.996 and 0.998 which is really amazing considering there is no active pfc in this build.


Are these lithium cells "appearing" to be nearly purely resistive, negating the need for PFC circuitry? Or is there some other reason for the nearly perfect power factor?


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

valerun said:


> Finally got to running 2 chargers in parallel today - not bad. 16kW into the pack. Tripped the 60A line breaker after 20 min. Time to rewire the garage for 100A ;-)


What are the advantages and disadvantages of running two or three of these in parallel versus building a single large unit with this design?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I honestly don't know why the power factor is so good. I did think that the battery load would shift the current waveform out of phase with the voltage. I am guessing that the little hardware overcurrent circuit that Val used is helping. Along with a pair of 4700uf 400v filter caps.

Regards building several small units as opposed to one big one. The advantage is not needing very large custom magnetics which are near impossible to obtain.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I honestly don't know why the power factor is so good. I did think that the battery load would shift the current waveform out of phase with the voltage. I am guessing that the little hardware overcurrent circuit that Val used is helping. Along with a pair of 4700uf 400v filter caps.
> 
> Regards building several small units as opposed to one big one. The advantage is not needing very large custom magnetics which are near impossible to obtain.


you are right, Damien. Also, there is no point to have anything more than 10kW in the car - it's just increasing the weight of the car and since there are no charging stations rated for more than 7kW (at least here in the US), you would be carrying dead weight around. So the ideal situation is having a 10kW unit in the car and another unit (10kW or higher) in your garage to parallel to the in-car unit. Then the advantage of having that second unit to also be 10kW is same layout / full swappability. a) easier to build 2 units that are the same, b) if your in-car unit fails for whatever reason, you have an immediate spare in your garage.

That would be my logic.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I honestly don't know why the power factor is so good. I did think that the battery load would shift the current waveform out of phase with the voltage. I am guessing that the little hardware overcurrent circuit that Val used is helping. Along with a pair of 4700uf 400v filter caps.
> 
> Regards building several small units as opposed to one big one. The advantage is not needing very large custom magnetics which are near impossible to obtain.


on power factor - current limiter should be helping by limiting peak current draw. Another factor is likely a relatively low inductance of the main inductor.

The data from Damien's measurements is consistent with my measurements. That said, I'd love someone to measure PF using a different instrument (both Damien and myself are using the same model number of a PF meter). 

IF the PF numbers we are getting are correct, we will probably stop making PFC stages altogether for our conversions and just go with 1200V devices with a voltage quadrupler / doubler (for 110/220V, respectively) upfront. Would give us a 670V DC bus to buck down from. So should be good for any battery voltage up to 550V or so. Good enough i think ;-)


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

valerun said:


> you are right, Damien. Also, there is no point to have anything more than 10kW in the car - it's just increasing the weight of the car and since there are no charging stations rated for more than 7kW (at least here in the US), you would be carrying dead weight around. So the ideal situation is having a 10kW unit in the car and another unit (10kW or higher) in your garage to parallel to the in-car unit. Then the advantage of having that second unit to also be 10kW is same layout / full swappability. a) easier to build 2 units that are the same, b) if your in-car unit fails for whatever reason, you have an immediate spare in your garage.
> 
> That would be my logic.


That's awesome. 10kW on-board and 20kW off-board for 30kw charging. Would you still build the 20kw as two 10kw chargers in parallel? Seems by your original logic you would as then you'd have 3 identical chargers.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Val , that's very interesting that you are getting the same pf readings. I did check the meter with an LC circuit just to make sure it worked! I am inclined to believe the meter for a few reasons. I have an old but very accurate ac clamp that i used to measure input current during the battery charge run on saturday. With 20amps measured input at 230v the power meter was reading approx 4500w. Close enough. Output was 26amps at 164v or 4264w so about 230w of loss. If the pf had not been close to unity I don't think I would have observed these numbers.

Interestingly enough some of the European car makers (Renault being the leader) are betting on AC fast charging using 3 phase 400v 63amp service and onboard 22kw chargers. I have heard that they are using the windings in the traction motor as the inductor. The on street charge points being installed here in Ireland are all 3 phase 400v 32amp. I can draw 230v single phase from them at 32amps for a max of about 6.5kw. Now if I could use rectified 3 phase at 600vdc that power would go up to about 12kw! That's a project for next year i reckon

Anyway I had a play with my Ducati home charger using the attached schematic. Worked great. Fet is an old BS108 I had laying around. In state B the voltage was 4.5v peak so will be fine for the arduino i/o line. Interestingly the duty cycle was 26.5% (16amp output) in both state b and simplified mode 3 so perhaps they didnt implement the power reduction in this unit. Gotta love standards ....


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## steven4601 (Nov 11, 2010)

Damien, do you have a suitable current probe? ( 50A 10kHz bandwidth or better)? If you could plot ingoing voltage and current then you'd be able to see what really is going on.

IF you'd put an FFT analyis on it you'd should be able to plot the harmonics it puts out / consumes


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Sadly my test equipment is somewhat lacking! I have a Prodyn T-125-hf current probe but i think its designed for rf work as it has a bandwidth from 120khz to 600mhz. Now if anyone wants to donate a nice Tektronix current probe and amp i'd be more than happy to test it out


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Anyway I had a play with my Ducati home charger using the attached schematic. Worked great. Fet is an old BS108 I had laying around. In state B the voltage was 4.5v peak so will be fine for the arduino i/o line. Interestingly the duty cycle was 26.5% (16amp output) in both state b and simplified mode 3 so perhaps they didnt implement the power reduction in this unit. Gotta love standards ....


super. can you post your code?

@palmer_md: yes, I would achieve 30kW via 3 10kW units. Either that or motor windings as inductor and a big 400A half-bridge unit. To avoid dealing with a controller's freewheeling diode and to avoid spinning the motor backwards, we would have to connect the IGBT chopper circuit's output to the midpoint between field and armature. 

Also, would need to install some capacitors in parallel with the battery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Sadly my test equipment is somewhat lacking! I have a Prodyn T-125-hf current probe but i think its designed for rf work as it has a bandwidth from 120khz to 600mhz. Now if anyone wants to donate a nice Tektronix current probe and amp i'd be more than happy to test it out


can't you just run an incoming wire through a current transformer / hall sensor and feed one channel off that and second channel directly to AC input voltage?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

just thought about the appeal of a single 20kW unit. One other problem you have to deal with is the rating of your caps for ripple current. The caps in the current units run pretty warm at 10kW output. if put in airflow, probably could be taken to 20kW.

No way I can make PFC at 20kW though - peak current just way too high. So unless the motor coil is used, no luck.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

Have you tried using the internals of a big old VFD? they have a big (soft starting) rectifier (3 fase), caps, inductors, and maybe also usable IGBT's


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Here is the code :
// this is the right place for J1772 lookup
// check if there is a signal
pinMode(pin_J1772, INPUT);
pinMode(pin_s2, OUTPUT);
digitalWrite(pin_s2, LOW); // Select state B
int sum=0;
for(x=0; x<1000; x++) {
sum+=digitalRead(pin_J1772);
delay(1);
}
// adjust max power based on readout
if(sum>50) { // noise control; also, failsafe if power connected is NOT J1772
absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*sum*6/100; // from J1772 specs, every 1% duty corresponds to 0.6A input current
// enable power now

digitalWrite(pin_s2, HIGH); // Select state C

Just a few mods to the original. Will test later in the week.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

the J1772 plugs and inlets arrived! Rush of tucsonev.com did a good job. Super-fat AWG6 power cables rated for 70A. Will be wiring our facility here with proper J1772 system (plugs, signal comms and all).


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I am following up on valerun's advice and posting my question here instead of the original charger thread. Here's my problem as I stated it there and I believe a couple of other people there are having the same problem. 

Ok I imported both TImer1 and u_LCD144 into my sketch from the library now I get this error 

In file included from cpp.57
home/desktop/Arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.h:19:
error: redefinition of 'class TimerOne'
home/desktop/Arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.h:20
error: Previous definition of 'class TimerOne'

I will get this right one of these days... 







http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=268669
User Dougingraham has stated on the thread that this is the same problem he has been having and that 'I wonder if they included a default timer code in the libraries in 0022' I have been looking for this in the arduino library to no avail.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Snakub said:


> In file included from cpp.57
> home/desktop/Arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.h:19:
> error: redefinition of 'class TimerOne'
> home/desktop/Arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.h:20
> error: Previous definition of 'class TimerOne'


Have you tried my suggestion of adding the following to TimerOne.h:
---------------
// on the very top of the file
#ifndef TIMERONELIB
#define TIMERONELIB


//...

// on the very bottom of the file
#endif
--------------
?

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Major update on the charger - power stage is now getting its own PCB so you don't have to mess with the layout anymore. Preview attached. Testing now - should be ready as part of kits in ~2 weeks.

The footprint is ~9"x6", total height with all components is ~4". Can be mounted to a cold plate or an air-cooled ribbed heatsink of 8x5" or larger. 

This board, combined with a driver board (now a single board for PFC control and 2 IGBT drivers), and an Arduino board, comprise a full kit.

Let me know if any questions.

Thanks,
V


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## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

valerun said:


> Major update on the charger - power stage is now getting its own PCB so you don't have to mess with the layout anymore. Preview attached. Testing now - should be ready as part of kits in ~2 weeks.
> 
> The footprint is ~9"x6", total height with all components is ~4". Can be mounted to a cold plate or an air-cooled ribbed heatsink of 8x5" or larger.
> 
> ...


Hey Val,

That's a great idea to keep everything on 1 board. How thick of copper will it be made from?

One thing that I notice that worries me is the very small isolation gap between the + leg of the caps and the negative plane of the top of the board. 

What IGBT's is it designed for?

-Adam


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I was just starting to study snubbers and saw there are more complex topologies that tout better efficiency etc. At what post did you talk about snubbers .


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Put me down for two!


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Did another run this evening at just under 6kw. Ran for 30 mins no problems. Igbt temp topped out at 45C , inductors at 55C. I think this is as much power as i can run through the current design. Which is fine as its the most that I can draw from on street charge points anyway!


I think the next move will be the cooling block for the inductors. Came upon a nice 1200v 600amp fuji half bridge igbt module so maybe 10 inductors , 3 phase input ,Sbe ring cap right on top of the igbt , 150amps out??


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Did another run this evening at just under 6kw. Ran for 30 mins no problems. Igbt temp topped out at 45C , inductors at 55C. I think this is as much power as i can run through the current design. Which is fine as its the most that I can draw from on street charge points anyway!
> 
> 
> I think the next move will be the cooling block for the inductors. Came upon a nice 1200v 600amp fuji half bridge igbt module so maybe 10 inductors , 3 phase input ,Sbe ring cap right on top of the igbt , 150amps out??


Damien you're so cautious... ;-) Most inductor cores are not losing any significant lifetime if run below 150C! Most copper enameled wires are good to 180C. So I would definitiely not worry about your inductors getting to 55C. I think you can safely let them run up to 100C. 

IGBT is different, of course. Not sure how you sample the temp there but standard approach seems to be to sample heatsink close to IGBT and start thermal derating when heatsink hits 55C. Remember that all those semiconductors are spec'ed to run fine at 125C junction temp...

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> I was just starting to study snubbers and saw there are more complex topologies that tout better efficiency etc. At what post did you talk about snubbers .


Hi Aeroscott - there are a few posts here on snubbers. Pls search within a thread. Energy recovery snubbers are great but require tuning etc. At the power levels we are talking about (low, 10kW), IMHO, saving 100-200W is not worth the complexity, cost, and additional points of failure. 

In the current design of the charger, most of the losses come NOT from AC losses but rather from the conduction losses through IGBTs, freewheeling diodes, inductors, and output diode. Snubbers would not do anything to those. 

In order to reduce losses significantly from the current design, we would have to go back to FET-based design with synchronous rectification. However, I would then need 5+ devices per side per stage in parallel - or total of 20+ FETs to run this thing. All of them need to be isolated from the heatsink. In my experience, the latter requirement is a major source of failures and weird voltage leaks in high-vibration, high temp swing environments. 

And even if all that can be dealt with, it would be tough to make work because you start running out of FET options when you need to deal with 350VDC rectified at 100A peaks... The best I could find (500V 52A max continuous) had 0.14R Rds, which, even if you use 5 of them in parallel, you get 0.03R, or 1.5V drop at 50A which is as good / bad as the IGBTs we use now... So whats the point?

I think the ONLY ways to increase efficiency in this design are as follows:
1. Increase the size of magnetics so you can reduce resistive losses in inductors and decrease AC frequency further at the same time. This would be worth ~100-150W savings at 10kW
2. Use SiC diodes as freewheel and output diodes. Unfortunately, they don't make them rated at 100A just yet. And if they did, they would be $100 apiece... This would be worth ~100-150W savings at 10kW
3. Drop PFC stage. Would mean higher peak line currents and therefore inability to draw full rated power from EVSE/house circuit breakers. Works only if your battery below 250V CV
4. Increase DC rail voltage to decrease currents. Natural choice is doubling the voltages (voltage doubler on 240VAC line in non-PFC version - gives 670VDC rail; or a PFC booster to 750V) Would mean more expensive components. 

Out of all these only #1 is somewhat interesting. We are trying it out now. If you have any other ideas that would not be too complex, I'd love to hear them.

There's also a radical solution of going with a single-device flyback working in a discontinuous mode. That way you would get:
1. Automatic PFC due to absence of low-frequency dynamics (inductor current goes to zero each switching period)
2. Radically lower number of components.
3. Easier possibility of isolation

Of course, there are tradeoffs:
1. Voltage stress doubles so you need 1200V IGBTs
2. Peak current goes even higher - to 3-4x the output current. So you would need 400A IGBT / diode combo and much thicker inductor wire.
3. There will be irreducible voltage / current ripple at output
4. You will need to vary switching frequency to keep the thing in DCM with varying load.
5. Much higher EMI and line noise that you would need to filter out / protect your logic from

That said, we are contemplating doing this sometime soon.

Enough SMPS geekery for now ;-)

V


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

thanks so much ,you explained so much and well. Next to study drivers .


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Did another run this evening at just under 6kw. Ran for 30 mins no problems. Igbt temp topped out at 45C , inductors at 55C. I think this is as much power as i can run through the current design. Which is fine as its the most that I can draw from on street charge points anyway!
> 
> 
> I think the next move will be the cooling block for the inductors. Came upon a nice 1200v 600amp fuji half bridge igbt module so maybe 10 inductors , 3 phase input ,Sbe ring cap right on top of the igbt , 150amps out??


150A is NICE. ;-)) 

Watch out for the bridge failures at that power level. This was the single most frequent source of problems for us. We have found that most rectifier bridges have inadequate thermal resistance, so when you try using a 50A bridge at 40A RMS, it explodes shortly even as heatsink temp below 50C. And that's not even counting the effect of current pulses that you get in a non-PFC design. Arguably, 480V 3 phase is much easier on these guys but still.

Also, careful with inductors - you need certain minimum inductance to have manageable ripple at lowest current setting (0.05C cutoff for LifePo4). So you would probably need to connect your inductors in something like 3s3p config. At some point, it becomes just a bit unwieldy and it's easier to get a big core like E610-34 from micrometals.com and wound it with 8 strands of gauge 14 or something. In fact, I am experimenting with exactly that right now


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adamj12b said:


> Hey Val,
> 
> That's a great idea to keep everything on 1 board. How thick of copper will it be made from?
> 
> ...


good question Adam. We did some calcs on http://www.desmith.net/NMdS/Electronics/TraceWidth.html. According to that ANSI (read: conservative) standard, 50A needs just 1-inch wide trace even with a standard 1 oz/ft^2 copper thickness (assuming 50C temp rise). So that's what we are testing out now. Also, don't forget that we have an airflow across the PCB surface.

same source also gives 0.1" separation between PFC out and negative trace (the highest voltage differential in this design). So very good point - have updated the design now. Thanks!

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adamj12b said:


> What IGBT's is it designed for?
> 
> -Adam


Adam - missed your last question. this version is designed for 
Fuji 2MBI200N-060 600V 200A half-bridge modules. There seems to be a virtually endless supply of these on ebay from a bunch of sources. any other 600V+ 150A+ 23-mm spaced half-bridge would work, as well. 

I am thinking of redesigning this to also be compatible with 1200V modules so people can choose higher DC rail voltages (selfish interest here as we plan to run 400V packs soon) but I am running into sourcing problems with caps - no-one seems to be making 500/600V elcaps...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I've never seen an elcap rated above 450v. Most 3 phase power supplies I know would use 2 450v parts in series. Will you be using a boost converter to charge the 400v pack? I wonder would an 800v or 1000v c4de cap work?

Hope to start testing the pilot signal circuit and software tomorrow.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I've never seen an elcap rated above 450v. Most 3 phase power supplies I know would use 2 450v parts in series. Will you be using a boost converter to charge the 400v pack? I wonder would an 800v or 1000v c4de cap work?
> 
> Hope to start testing the pilot signal circuit and software tomorrow.


Yeah, probably what I should do. 

for 400V pack, we'd just tune PFC to get the 500VDC rail out. Just change one resistor.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Well , i fitted the circuit for the control pilot signal monitoring and got to work on the code. Good news is its working. Bad news , I have a bug in the power computation. See the code fragment below:
switch(state)
{
case STATE_WAIT_TIMEOUT:
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, "Waiting for mains or CP"); //charger waits for mains or control pilot
mainsV=read_mV();
if(mainsV>min_mainsV ){
myLCD->clrScreen(); // clear lcd
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, "Mode 1 detected"); 
delay(2000); //wait 2 secs 
state = STATE_CHARGE; //if mains is detected then assume mode 1 and commence charge at 2500w max power.
}

digitalWrite(pin_s2, LOW); // Select state B
sum=0;
sum = pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);
// for(x=0; x<1000; x++) {
// sum+=digitalRead(pin_J1772);
// delay(1);
// }
// adjust max power based on readout
if(sum>50) { // noise control; also, failsafe if power connected is NOT J1772
digitalWrite(pin_s2, HIGH); // Select state C
delay(2000); //wait 2 secs 
mainsV=read_mV(); //must re read mains input after power is turned on
sprintf(str, "SUM: %d",(sum));
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, str);
delay(2000); //wait 1 secs
absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*sum*6/100; // from J1772 specs, every 1% duty corresponds to 0.6A input current
// enable power now

myLCD->clrScreen(); // clear lcd
 myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, "Mode 3 detected"); 
delay(2000); //wait 2 secs
state = STATE_CHARGE; //we have mode 3 so commence charge at defined power level.
}


break;

Now , if i'm on mode 1 (ie no pilot signal) then power defaults to 2500w just fine. I had some difficulty with the code for computng the duty cycle so decided to use the arduino command pulsein instead and it works fine. My home charger outputs a 26.5% duty cycle for 16amps at 230v. pulsein reports on screen as 264 which is close enough for government work. Problem is the charger still ramps up to over 20amps input for about 4.4kw output. I have done the maths and it should be limiting to about 3.4kw or a bit over 15.5amps input. My guess is that the program is ignoring the computed absmaxchargerpower for some weird reason. Val , could you give the code a look over? Programming is not my strong point!

I also modded the hardware and code to let the charger logic use the vehicle 12v feeds and wait for either mains input or pilot signal. This part seems to be working fine.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Some progress. I now have the charger computing max power from the control pilot but its not making sense. First the read_mV function does not seem to return a value representitive of the mains. With 230v input it was returing an integer value of approx 4800! So i decided to not read the mains voltage (its always 230v here anyway) and updated the calculation routine as follows:

absMaxChargerPower=(230*sum*6)/100;

Pulsein returned a value of 264 for my 16amp evse which should have returned a value 3644w. Instead it calculated 364w!! So I modded the calc to :
absMaxChargerPower=(230*sum*6)/10;

which now returns 3644w! why? the maths say it should be 36kw. So obviously there is a divide by ten somewhere. 

the saga continues ....


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Quick video on the mode 3 code running from a 16amp evse :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn8jkrj3aE

Seems to be very reliably determining the pwm duty and calcing the power. I'd still like to know why i'm and order of magnitiude out on the calculaction though. Hope to test with 32amp mode 3 evse during the week.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

hi 
With 230v input it was returing an integer value of approx 4800!

it is not an integer look at !
char *ftoa(char *a, double f, int precision)
{
long p[] = {0,10,100,1000,10000,100000,1000000,10000000,100000000};

char *ret = a;
long heiltal = (long)f;
itoa(heiltal, a, 10);
while (*a != '\0') a++;
*a++ = '.';
long desimal = abs((long)((f - heiltal) * p[precision]));
_itoa(desimal, a, 10);_
return ret;
}

use 
sprintf(str, "Out = %_*s*_ A ", ftoa(tmpstr, 1.*outC, 1)); myLCD->printStr(0, 4, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str); 
and you have with .1 desimal
regards nfj


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Forgive my ignorance but i'm not sure what all that means


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Quick video on the mode 3 code running from a 16amp evse :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn8jkrj3aE
> 
> Seems to be very reliably determining the pwm duty and calcing the power. I'd still like to know why i'm and order of magnitiude out on the calculaction though. Hope to test with 32amp mode 3 evse during the week.


Hi Damien - good stuff. That /10 beats me, too. I will try your code when I come back to office in a week or so (international travels).

Couple of questions to power electronics gurus (I know some of you are lurking here ;-):
1. Any good references for SSIPP design? (Single Stage Isolated PFC Power supply)
2. If you had to transmit a 20kHz gate signal from one unit to another 10 meters away, how would you do it? Low power, logic signal only (it will get buffered into high-amps gate drive signal inside the receiver). Initially I was thinking of putting in a low-impedance buffered-output inverter such as in PDF attached. But maybe I am reinventing the wheel and there are common solutions? preserving pulse width is quite important...

Thanks,
Valery.


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

Given the distance and potential ground differences, I would advise use of a differential line driver and line receiver used for RS485 with appropriate line termination resistors.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Forgive my ignorance but i'm not sure what all that means


HI
absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*264.0)*6.0)/100.0; it give's 3443.1
sprintf(str, "Power = %s W ", ftoa(tpstr, absMaxChargerPower,1)); myLCD->printStr(0, 4, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str); 
when using a Float you have to use '.0' as 230.0

http://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/Float
you are at the right point in the program use a funktion to get the sum for pin_J1772 like read_V() copy it and and change the input pin, if you need help, I will look in to it later.


best regards
nfj


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

zaxxon said:


> Given the distance and potential ground differences,
> I would advise use of a differential line driver and line receiver used for RS485 with appropriate line termination resistors.


Are you thinking of something like the AM26LS31/32 series?

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/am26ls31.pdf

These are popular in T1-E2 applications and have a long history of reliability.
There are other manufacturers too.

I would consider driving both the "local" and "remote" unit via the driver/receiver to keep everything in sync.


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

Weisheimer said:


> Are you thinking of something like the AM26LS31/32 series?
> 
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/am26ls31.pdf
> 
> ...


Yes, These are a a good choice. I think there are others that require less operating currnt, but are slower. 

PS. Good to know you made it back safely.


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## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

valerun said:


> Have you tried my suggestion of adding the following to TimerOne.h:
> ---------------
> // on the very top of the file
> #ifndef TIMERONELIB
> ...


 Hmmm... I added what you said to the TimerOne.h file in the arduino library but now when I try to compile the program it reads a different error 

home/desktop/arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.cpp:In member function 'void TimerOne: "attachInterrupt(void (*)(), long int) ' :
home/Desktop/arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.cpp:78:
error 'TIMSK1' was not declared in this scope
home/ deskop/arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.cpp: In
member function 'void TimerOne: :detachInterrupt ()' :
home/ deskop/arduino-0022/libraries/Timer1/TimerOne.cpp:85:
error 'TIMSK1' was not declared in this scope


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

nfj , thanks for your help. I'm starting to understand how the arduino deals with numbers a bit better. This evening i setup a 32amp evse on the bench whoose pilot duty is 52.5%. pulseIn recorded this as 526. when the power calc came out it kept reporting 1188w! I took nfj's advice and rewrote the calc routine as follows :

absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*sum)*6.0)/10.0;

I also defined the pulsein variable as an unsigned int and absMaxChargerPower as an unsigned int. now i am getting power calculations of 7344w. it should be 7258w. Not a problem in itself but i would still like to know why the arduino is not doing the maths as it should. No doubt its a case of garbage in garbage out knowing my programming skills


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

HI Damien
you welcome

is it the code you posted u use
cant see where you print it to the display ?
it is the "ftoa and itoa " that fuck the values up sort off
the arduino is calculating ok 

on the videos where you show the display,
it updates wery slow have you conected the TX from the display to the arduino RX ???
my display is very fast, also the input from the buttons 
in the code
case STATE_CHARGE
there could bee a problem

maxOutC=min(pwr*charger_efficiency*230/maxOutV, absMaxChargerCurrent);
maxOutC=min(maxOutC, absMaxChargerPower/maxOutV );
_*// curb further if user-spec'ed current is less
maxOutC=min(maxOutC, configuration.CC); *_
and one more you diffinition of 
pinMode(pin_J1772, INPUT);
pinMode(pin_s2, OUTPUT);
chould bee in the SETUP section 
the setup section is only run once and is for diffinition's
best regards
nfj

just tested 
absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*526.0)*6.0)/100.0; = 7258.7 !!!


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

No I don't have the display tx connected back to the arduino. I just watched evtv where they did a test of the charger and i noticed the display was much faster than mine. I guess thats the answer! I'll make the changes you suggested tomorrow and report back.


----------



## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes have seen the EVTV and he pointed out what I have changed time ago
but I have changed so mutch that it is not compatibel enymore I use external converters for the Amp and volt measurements, converts 0-5 volts input to the arduino, noise imune and galvanised isolation, just some I have from another project
bot of course nothing is impossibel it just take some time


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> Yes have seen the EVTV and he pointed out what I have changed time ago
> but I have changed so mutch that it is not compatibel enymore I use external converters for the Amp and volt measurements, converts 0-5 volts input to the arduino, noise imune and galvanised isolation, just some I have from another project
> bot of course nothing is impossibel it just take some time


Nfj - could you pls post some details about your sensing setup? We are always looking to improve the design. In the latest version of charger the sensors will be sitting directly on the power pcb and will be 2-3x more sensitive. The will still have the same conceptual setup though - running voltage through sense resistor into the current sensor. Another approach we have considered was using v2f with opto isolator and counter. But that was just too complex...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

zaxxon said:


> Yes, These are a a good choice. I think there are others that require less operating currnt, but are slower.
> 
> PS. Good to know you made it back safely.


Thanks guys! Will try them shortly. How would you deal with delays due to wire length/inductance?


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## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

valerun said:


> Nfj - could you pls post some details about your sensing setup? We are always looking to improve the design. In the latest version of charger the sensors will be sitting directly on the power pcb and will be 2-3x more sensitive. The will still have the same conceptual setup though - running voltage through sense resistor into the current sensor. Another approach we have considered was using v2f with opto isolator and counter. But that was just too complex...


Have you considered ISO-OP-amps for reading values from the powersection to the control section. They do cost a little more but might be a good way to keep isolation and still get analogue values over the isolation.

Regards
/Per


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

valerun said:


> Nfj - could you pls post some details about your sensing setup? We are always looking to improve the design. In the latest version of charger the sensors will be sitting directly on the power pcb and will be 2-3x more sensitive. The will still have the same conceptual setup
> 
> Hi Valery
> have got the hall sensor, snailmail maby Chrismas
> ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> valerun said:
> 
> 
> > have got the hall sensor, snailmail maby Chrismas
> ...


----------



## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

valerun said:


> nfj said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks nfj - got it. These are pretty expensive, no?
> ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

pm_dawn said:


> Have you considered ISO-OP-amps for reading values from the powersection to the control section. They do cost a little more but might be a good way to keep isolation and still get analogue values over the isolation.
> 
> Regards
> /Per


cool idea. Thanks! Something like this: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/HCPL-7520-000E/516-1684-5-ND/825320?

The only issue is that all of them have gain in the range of 8-10 which means I would have to divide the input to 0-0.3V range and hence subject to more noise... Any ideas?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Connected the display tx back to arduino rx and the display now updates much faster. However :
absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*526.0)*6.0)/10.0; 

returns a value of -1W !!! arrgghhh!


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

ok i'm an idiot.
absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*526.0)*6.0)/10.0; 

the /10 pushed the number over the limit of an unsigned int. changing to :

absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*526.0)*6.0)/100.0;

gives 7258w as expected. so it looks like the number format from pulsein might be the problem as its an unsigned long.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> ok i'm an idiot.
> absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*526.0)*6.0)/10.0;
> 
> the /10 pushed the number over the limit of an unsigned int. changing to :
> ...


don't be too hard on yourself ;-) Arduino typecasting is a major pain in the rear... Got me so many times...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks Val Tried this:

absMaxChargerPower=((230*526)*6)/100;

Now , everything is defined as an unsigned int. Which from what i can see is a plain 16 bit number. Returns 49!! What.the.hell.?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Thanks Val Tried this:
> 
> absMaxChargerPower=((230*526)*6)/100;
> 
> Now , everything is defined as an unsigned int. Which from what i can see is a plain 16 bit number. Returns 49!! What.the.hell.?


that wouldn't work because 230*526 > 65535 which is a limit for unsigned int. I'd recommend defining all involved variables as long int.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Tried long int and unsigned long. Still returns 49. If I put .0 after the numbers it works fine. However pulsein cannot be defined as a float. Gonna post over on the arduino forum.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Thanks Val Tried this:
> 
> absMaxChargerPower=((230*526)*6)/100;
> 
> Now , everything is defined as an unsigned int. Which from what i can see is a plain 16 bit number. Returns 49!! What.the.hell.?



HI
all those funny numbers come from when you *convert a number to a string *it is this funktion that do the trik

char *ftoa(char *a, double f, int precision)
{
long p[] = {0,10,100,1000,10000,100000,1000000,10000000,100000000};

char *ret = a;
long heiltal = (long)f;
itoa(heiltal, a, 10);
while (*a != '\0') a++;
*a++ = '.';
long desimal = abs((long)((f - heiltal) * p[precision]));
itoa(desimal, a, 10);
return ret;
}

This code first converts the integer part by casting the double to a long and convert it using itoa. Then it appends a '.' to the string, and finally it converts the decimals by multipying them by a factor of 10^precision, cast this to a long and convert it using itoa.

it can do many funy thing's to the printed numbers 

BUT it is only the string printout thats not corect 
hope it helps  
regards nfj


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks nfj. When it displays 49w on the screen and the charger goes into power mode it doesnt send out any power. That is why i was thinking that it really set itself to 49w. Now if the decimal to string conversion is actually effecting absMaxChargerPower ........


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

GOT IT!!!!!!

absMaxChargerPower=((230ul*526ul)*6ul)/100ul;


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Hi
ok where are we now ?
float absMaxChargerPower ok
230v you put in the formula
526 pulses(sum) you put in the formula
so absMaxChargerPower=((230.0*526)*6.0)/100.0; 
and converted and printed to the display sprintf(str, "Power = %s W ", ftoa(tpstr, absMaxChargerPower,1)); myLCD->printStr(0, 4, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str);
does it work for you ?


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Nize

then IF you configure "configuration.CC"
it is where absMaxChargePower goes for check
maxOutC=min(maxOutC, *absMaxChargerPower*/maxOutV );
// curb further if user-spec'ed current is less
 maxOutC=min(maxOutC, configuration.CC); 
so if you configuration.CC is lower you will not get full power ??
regards nfj


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Exactly. if the user set output current is lower than max charger power then it wont go to full power. If the calculated maxchargerpower is lower than the user setting then it throttles back. This is the code that is now running perfectly:

case STATE_WAIT_TIMEOUT:
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, "Waiting for mains or CP"); //charger waits for mains or control pilot
mainsV=read_mV();
if(mainsV>min_mainsV ){
myLCD->clrScreen(); // clear lcd
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, "Mode 1 detected"); 
delay(2000); //wait 2 secs 
state = STATE_CHARGE; //if mains is detected then assume mode 1 and commence charge at 2500w max power.
}

digitalWrite(pin_s2, LOW); // Select state B
sum=0;
sum = pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);
if(sum>50) { // noise control; also, failsafe if power connected is NOT J1772
if (sum>850) sum=850; //850 = 85% duty which equals 51amps input as per iec61851 11kw at 230v.
digitalWrite(pin_s2, HIGH); // Select state C
delay(2000); //wait 2 secs 
mainsV=read_mV(); //must re read mains input after power is turned on
sprintf(str, "sum: %d",(sum));
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, str);
delay(5000); //wait 1 secs
absMaxChargerPower=((230ul*sum)*6ul)/100ul; // from J1772 specs, every 1% duty corresponds to 0.6A input current
// enable power now

myLCD->clrScreen(); // clear lcd
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, "Mode 3 detected"); 
delay(2000); //wait 2 secs
myLCD->clrScreen(); // clear lcd
sprintf(str, "Power: %dW",(absMaxChargerPower)); //display calculated power
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, str);
delay(10000); //wait 10 secs
state = STATE_CHARGE; //we have mode 3 so commence charge at defined power level.
}

What seems to have happened is that when i wrote 230 in the formula it defaulted to treating this vaule as an integer. Then the result of the calculation was also forced to an integer hence the rubbish numbers. When i wrote 230.0 it forced the result to a float. Writing 230ul forces the number and the result to be an unsigned long which calculates perfectly!! Bring back the commodore 64 i say


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Exactly. if the user set output current is lower than max charger power then it wont go to full power. If the calculated maxchargerpower is lower than the user setting then it throttles back. This is the code that is now running perfectly:
> 
> Hmmmmmmmm !
> You have a 10Kw charger go to a thing that have potential of deliver the power and you now can detect it
> ...


regards nfj


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

In my particular case I run a headway pack of 64ah. The recommended charge rate is 0.5C or 32amps so i have set the charger max output current at 35amps. Obviously if I had a pack of say 160ah cells than ramping the output up to the maximum allowed by the evse would be no problem. Thanks again for all the help. 

Val , what's you take on temperature compensation for lifepo4? In particular charging below 0C?


----------



## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> In my particular case I run a headway pack of 64ah. The recommended charge rate is 0.5C or 32amps so i have set the charger max output current at 35amps. Obviously if I had a pack of say 160ah cells than ramping the output up to the maximum allowed by the evse would be no problem.
> 
> Ok then I adress it to val.
> If you in you house only have 10A for the charger and have user settings for that
> ...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Not quite. In the code mod I did the charger looks for two things. Either a control pilot or mains power. If it sees a control pilot it scales its power according to the capability of the evse if no user current limit is set. If it sees mains power with no pilot signal it assumes mode 1 charging which is a standard domestic plug socket.

All of this is not strictly necessary. I could simply install a 32amp socket at my house and program the charger accordingly. But if i visit a friend who only has a 13 amp socket i have to reset the parameters. Then there is the issue of the various capability of the on street evse. Here in Ireland this can be 13amps 230v single phase , 16amps 230v single phase , 32amps 230v single phase , 400v 32amps three phase or 63amps 400v three phase . A friend of mine has a leaf and had the 16amp 230v ducati home charge station installed. I can now visit him and just plug in. The charger will scale its power to match supply. Either that or it'll fritz out , go to max amps and cook it


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Not quite. _*In the code mod I did*_ the charger looks for two things. Either a control pilot or mains power. If it sees a control pilot it scales its power according to the capability of the evse if no user current limit is set. If it sees mains power with no pilot signal it assumes mode 1 charging which is a standard domestic plug socket.
> 
> All of this is not strictly necessary. I could simply install a 32amp socket at my house and program the charger accordingly. But if i visit a friend who only has a 13 amp socket i have to reset the parameters. Then there is the issue of the various capability of the on street evse. Here in Ireland this can be 13amps 230v single phase , 16amps 230v single phase , 32amps 230v single phase , 400v 32amps three phase or 63amps 400v three phase . A friend of mine has a leaf and had the 16amp 230v ducati home charge station installed. I can now visit him and just plug in. The charger will scale its power to match supply. Either that or it'll fritz out , go to max amps and cook it


Haaaaa   it's just what I mean. 
on Val's webside there is no upgrade for this mod


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm sure Val will post the update once he's tested it out. Heck even I don't trust my code. Anyway i've just run a full power test with 32amp 230v evse. Working great. Latest code attached but please note its in no way debugged or properly tested and may melt your car


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

valerun said:


> Thanks guys! Will try them shortly. How would you deal with delays due to wire length/inductance?


Assuming a wire similar to Cat5 twisted wire pair with a propagation delay of 5 ns/m. For a 10 m wire, the delay would be 50 ns. Given this is equivalent to a 0.1% duty cycle change for a 20KHz switching frequency it probably can be ignored. If it must match, one should add equivalent delay line on the local driver to compensate.


----------



## pm_dawn (Sep 14, 2009)

valerun said:


> cool idea. Thanks! Something like this: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/HCPL-7520-000E/516-1684-5-ND/825320?
> 
> The only issue is that all of them have gain in the range of 8-10 which means I would have to divide the input to 0-0.3V range and hence subject to more noise... Any ideas?


Check out the ISO122 and ISO124 series.
They seem to have gain 1 !

Here is a pdf with the circuit used in the controller in my car. it uses the ISO122 for all three sense leads from power section,, voltage, armature current and also field current.

Regards
/Per


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

pm_dawn said:


> Check out the ISO122 and ISO124 series.
> They seem to have gain 1 !
> 
> Here is a pdf with the circuit used in the controller in my car. it uses the ISO122 for all three sense leads from power section,, voltage, armature current and also field current.
> ...


Thanks! Very helpful schematics. These parts are $20+ per, though... Plus the need for an isolated supply on the input side. Which makes the solution ~2x more expensive compared to what we use now. We will probably try the $4 current sense parts first and see how much noise there is. 

stay tuned


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Valerun, I don't think you ever posted the photo's referred to in the post at the link below. Sorry if I missed them.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261165&postcount=125


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Thanks! Very helpful schematics. These parts are $20+ per, though... Plus the need for an isolated supply on the input side. Which makes the solution ~2x more expensive compared to what we use now. We will probably try the $4 current sense parts first and see how much noise there is.
> 
> stay tuned


well, turns out no free lunch (surprise, huh?). The current sense op-amps require a secondary op-amp to reference the output to a meaningful point (e.g., ground). I am back to square one now - my original hall-effect based solution is more elegant, less expensive and much simpler. The only issue is heat dissipation in sense resistors.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

zaxxon said:


> Assuming a wire similar to Cat5 twisted wire pair with a propagation delay of 5 ns/m. For a 10 m wire, the delay would be 50 ns. Given this is equivalent to a 0.1% duty cycle change for a 20KHz switching frequency it probably can be ignored. If it must match, one should add equivalent delay line on the local driver to compensate.


makes sense. thanks. The drivers are now added to PCBs. Will test as soon as I am back in country (Dec 6-ish).


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Valerun, I don't think you ever posted the photo's referred to in the post at the link below. Sorry if I missed them.
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261165&postcount=125


sorry will do as soon as get back to US and start the next round of testing on new PCBs (Dec 6)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Latest FULL set of PCBs. Would love to hear your comments. Uploaded in ExpressPCB format so you can dissect etc. V (EOM)


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## green caveman (Oct 2, 2009)

I almost hate to ask this on a 10kW/60A thread, but if I consider that a 100Ah pack should be charged at 0.3C for a 120V pack we're taking approximately [email protected] 

Would it be possible to produce a BOM for lower current off-board components that would significantly lower the cost of the charger? 

I'd really like to have an Ardiuno controlled charger, especially if we can get Bluetooth and an Android front-end, but there's a huge cost in the 60A components that doesn't seem to be justified in my case.

(I'm still not sure I have the skills to build and test - more reading would be required to determine the detail of documentation available.)


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

green caveman said:


> I almost hate to ask this on a 10kW/60A thread, but if I consider that a 100Ah pack should be charged at 0.3C for a 120V pack we're taking approximately [email protected]
> 
> Would it be possible to produce a BOM for lower current off-board components that would significantly lower the cost of the charger?
> 
> ...


Actually the cost would not be any different in lower-current version of this design. The IGBTs we use are available for $30-40 from ebay so you can't save much there by moving down in power rating. 

Maybe you can save on some wiring / circuit breakers etc but it wouldn't be worth it. 

The BOM is already lower than the cheapest 2kW charger you can buy, so I doubt we will work on reducing that. THe work is now focused on making the assembly easier and adding more safety / configuration features.


----------



## green caveman (Oct 2, 2009)

valerun said:


> Actually the cost would not be any different in lower-current version of this design. The IGBTs we use are available for $30-40 from ebay so you can't save much there by moving down in power rating.
> 
> Maybe you can save on some wiring / circuit breakers etc but it wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> The BOM is already lower than the cheapest 2kW charger you can buy, so I doubt we will work on reducing that. THe work is now focused on making the assembly easier and adding more safety / configuration features.


Is that the same as saying that if I buy the PCB w/components from you and chase down the high-power components separately I'll have a reasonable compromise of time spent searching for/buying components and cost?

Good assembly instructions and more safety is definitely a good plan, and I'd like to buy, at least some things, from you to encourage you in making progress, but it's hard to justify spending almost double what the lowest cost controller would cost me, even if what I end up with would be better (but have more features/power/etc. than I could use).


----------



## green caveman (Oct 2, 2009)

valerun said:


> The work is now focused on making the assembly easier and adding more safety / configuration features.


The PCB assembly (assuming that someone buys the kit from you) seems manageable. The off-board is a challenge regardless of where the parts come from.

Are you sure that the BOM matches the schematic (and the "Some notes from..." section)? (I'm not sure they don't, just asking). There a varistor referenced that I'm not sure is on the schematic.

Some cleanup of the notes might help - clarify jargon and remove suggestions that are now part of the design.

Does anyone have more/different/etc. photos of the internals, suggested layouts, etc. etc..

I'm still not sure that I can build it, but I think I'm getting closer to knowing one way or the other.


----------



## green caveman (Oct 2, 2009)

The source listed in the BOM for the inductor no longer seems to be selling that part. What are the required specs on that part so that I can search for a replacement.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Hi
http://seth.drivexc.com/MQP/PFC_Batt_Charger_NoCode.pdf

Here is how and all the hurdles to build a switchmode charger
40-400v 2Kw 

regards
nfj


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

The inductors i used were removed from the mains filter circuit of a 3 phase computer ups. They measured in at 1mH each on a cheap lcr meter. i used two in parallel for 0.5mH but double the current.

I've made a few extra modifications to the charger. Installed a solid state relay in the ac line to the fans and coolant pump psu. Controlled directly from the arduino fan output pin. Fans and coolant pump cut in at 20C. Also purchased a 12v 7 day timer on ebay. This is a simple little device with a single NO contact that can be controlled by time or a manual override button on the front. I connected a 4v7 zener across the 10k pulldown resistor on the bms input pin and sent a 12v signal throught the timer and a 1k resistor to that pin. Reversed the logic in software so the charger idles if the pin is low waiting for it to go high to commence charge. Charging is terminated by the timer opening the contact and the pin reverting low.

Full mode 3 communication is now running stable with the charger reading the control pilot signal and calibrating power accordingly. When running in mode 3 the charger enables power by selecting state c but does not begin charging until the timer brings the bms pin high. This is so as to allow battery heaters to raise the pack temperature before commencement of charge. Another option for this would be pack termperature monitoring. That's on the to do list!

Latest code attached and a video of operation on a load bank :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaeKXdtx_EM


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Jack, is the 4v7 notation you used the same as 4.7V used here in the US?


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

In a word.Yes. Could also use 5v1 but as they have a wide tolerance i chose a 4v7.


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## green caveman (Oct 2, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> The inductors i used were removed from the mains filter circuit of a 3 phase computer ups. They measured in at 1mH each on a cheap lcr meter. i used two in parallel for 0.5mH but double the current.


I'm amazingly impressed that a number of very smart and knowledgeable people, primarily people contributing to threads here, have put together a design for a low-cost, advanced, open, battery charger.

My problem is, that I'm not one of those, and to make the design useful to a wider audience, let's say the "electronic technician" level rather than designer, we need a BOM that has clear specs on each of the parts.

If the "technician level" is not the target audience for the charger, or perhaps not yet, then we need to be clear on this.

What I'm gathering is that the inductance is not that important. The spec'd part (Falco T23037) was 333mH, but it seems that 500mH also works (or is there no micro/milli "m" issue and there really is a factor of 1000 difference here). 

The current (dependent on frequency??) requirement is not spec'd, inductors also have frequency specs, voltages, etc. etc. 



jackbauer said:


> I've made a few extra modifications to the charger.[...]


This is definitely where my interest lies - monitoring, remote displays, data, interfaces to other systems, etc. etc. 

But to get here, I have to get the basic charger built.

Thanks,


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I write milli Henry as (mH) and micro Henry as (uH). Sorry for the confusion. I have a few spare inductors so if your stuck for two I can mail em over. Magnetics are by far and away the most difficult components to source for these kind of projects. Most suppliers won't talk at all and those who do want to sell in moq of 10k pieces. Val is working with a supplier to come up with a workable design that will be available off the shelf. 


The bill of material needs to be better as do the build instructions etc. I am sure Val is working on that. To be honest its a new design so nothing is cast in stone right now and subject to change. That's the problem with doing open source development work. Some idiot (like me!) comes along and starts adding bits on


----------



## green caveman (Oct 2, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> I write milli Henry as (mH) and micro Henry as (uH).


Yes, but what's Falco using?



jackbauer said:


> Sorry for the confusion. I have a few spare inductors so if your stuck for two I can mail em over. Magnetics are by far and away the most difficult components to source for these kind of projects. Most suppliers won't talk at all and those who do want to sell in moq of 10k pieces. Val is working with a supplier to come up with a workable design that will be available off the shelf.


I don't mind trying to help to find a source for the part, but I'd need to know what I'm looking for. That slip of paper you had to the purchasing guy and say "Buy me one of these" (H1-H2mH, I1-I2A, V1-V2VDC, etc. etc.).



jackbauer said:


> The bill of material needs to be better as do the build instructions etc. I am sure Val is working on that. To be honest its a new design so nothing is cast in stone right now and subject to change. That's the problem with doing open source development work. Some idiot (like me!) comes along and starts adding bits on


No product (open source or otherwise) is ever finished. At some point you have to decide that it has reached a state where it can move from being a product only available to the cognoscenti and be made available to the next level of people down the technology tree - the people who don't thoroughly understand it, but are competent enough to use it.

I think I'm asking if there is a plan/the charger is ready to move to that state. A design is "fixed" (even if better ones are just around the corner), documentation is cleaned up (schematics match completed BOM, jargon removed). 

References to options are eliminated. It's OK to say this inductor can be X-YmH, but not OK to say if X is used then capacitor C should be changed to capacitance F, etc. (I don't think there's much, if any, of this).

It's OK to say the charger has not yet reached that state, development is still in progress, no time for clean up, documentation, etc. etc. That just means I'm not the target consumer, I'm cool with that and will move along. Better that than frustration and failure (for me an others). This same question was, I think, asked slightly differently in a different thread.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just spent the last few days installing the charger in the car. Started off today at 48% soc on the pack and running at 7kw had it up near 100% in well under an hour. Biggest issue I have so far is the voltage detection at end of charge. During the CC phase it detects the cuttoff point (164v) just fine and switches over to CV. In CV it consistently reads low on the pack voltage. I got it sorta working by messing about with the number of cells and cv point. I think it would be a good idea to do away with the cell count etc and just let the user set the cv point and cuttoff current. Not sure if my programming skills are up to it but i'm going to give it a go. 

Next problem is that it tends to pop the 32amp breaker at turn on about 50% of the time even if the ntcs are cold. I am using a motor rated breaker but it still gets popped.

So all in working well on first run just need to get these few issues wrestled down. Video and pics later.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just noticed in the code the parameter :
const float sensorV_R=10000.0;

Now in my case i'm using a 5k sense resistor. Would this cause problems with the voltage calcs?


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> That's the problem with doing open source development work. Some idiot (like me!) comes along and starts adding bits on


I am one of those idiots and here I go.
my requirement is 3 phase AC variable frequency/voltage input to a 450-765 Volt DC. 250 KW the controller feeds back to a engine/turbine that drives an 3 phase alternator.
as a future there would be a DC 150KW 300 amp source that will be monitored. as well as the 500VDC FAST DC charging source.
So I would like to marry mine with yours.
additionally I use oil cooling on caps and IBGT's.


I will update your expesspcb files and give you photos of the parts I use as well as sousrces

you are welcome to use the items as you see fit
my thoughts on this is someone can start out small and just add as they grow in requirments. like tinker toys.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Few pics of the charger in the car with lid removed.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Just noticed in the code the parameter :
> const float sensorV_R=10000.0;
> 
> Now in my case i'm using a 5k sense resistor. Would this cause problems with the voltage calcs?


no, it gets calibrated away when you do the calibration step the first time you run the charger.

how much off is the CV cutoff? There is a programmed hysteresis in the control loop so that the charger does not oscillate (voltage hysteresis is controlled by 'spreadV' variable. It is normally set to ~2-3x the voltage resolution, or 1.5V-3V depending on the voltage sense resistor. With that, CV stage goes like this: the charger ramps current until V hits preset CV cutoff. Then the duty stays same until V hits CV+hysteresis. Then charger reduces duty. What you can do is: (1) reduce hysteresis to 1-1.5V since you are using a 5k resistor), (2) change the code to remove upper-limit hysteresis (change line 'if(out1 > CX+spread) {' to 'if(out1 > CX) {'), or (3) just tweak CV so that it hits the right value (this is the easiest since it does not require code changes but of course this is a kludge).

Hope this helps.

The current versions of the charger are shipping with suggestion #2 implemented.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks Val i've just implemented suggestion 2. Will test tomorrow and report back. This is one great charger. Thank you for making it available to the community!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> I am one of those idiots and here I go.
> my requirement is 3 phase AC variable frequency/voltage input to a 450-765 Volt DC. 250 KW the controller feeds back to a engine/turbine that drives an 3 phase alternator.
> as a future there would be a DC 150KW 300 amp source that will be monitored. as well as the 500VDC FAST DC charging source.
> So I would like to marry mine with yours.
> ...


sounds good bj. I would agree that at that power level motor-generator setup is probably best for initial power conditioning / processing stage and isolation.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Thanks Val i've just implemented suggestion 2. Will test tomorrow and report back. This is one great charger. Thank you for making it available to the community!


Thanks Damien. We are implementing your J1772 suggestions and releasing the next version of the charger in the next 5-7 days. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Also, our Inductor supplier seems to be getting their act together and we will soon have ~$60 1mH 50A rated inductors that can go up to 100A peak currents. Stay tuned.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> sounds good bj. I would agree that at that power level motor-generator setup is probably best for initial power conditioning / processing stage and isolation.


Thanks. After further thought I decided to do mine on a separate thread give your thread link to start.
once I post the schematics and PCB you can see if you want to incorporate it.
as you see there is a different design layout, but if you look at it as a tinker toy you can cut and add as needed.

charging-uderway


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Today is turning into a real good news / bad news day in charger land.

Good news : Hitting cv point to within 0.3v accuracy.
Bad news : Not displaying the exact voltage on the screen. ie at 164v actual the display reads 162v but the firmware must be reading it as its easing off the current and holding voltage.
Good news : Even at full power , heatsink temp never exceed 38C.
Bad news : coolant pump stopped working.
Good news : Overtemp limiting works.
Bad news : got a mouthful of ethylene glycol when back flushing the coolant system.
Good news : pump working again.


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## attaman (Feb 15, 2011)

Hi Jack, I remember I saw once the incorrect voltage being displayed, but then after re-ran the initial calibration/setup at some point it asked me to measure the voltage with a trusted instrument and punch it in (Val, correct me if I'm wrong). The voltage was displayed correctly after that.

I wonder what ethylene glycol tastes like? That's why I use the ethanol/water solution a.k.a. vodka for the coolant  

Henry




jackbauer said:


> Today is turning into a real good news / bad news day in charger land.
> 
> Good news : Hitting cv point to within 0.3v accuracy.
> Bad news : Not displaying the exact voltage on the screen. ie at 164v actual the display reads 162v but the firmware must be reading it as its easing off the current and holding voltage.
> ...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

It tastes bad! Really bad. Vodka is not a bad idea. I used to work in a factory and the Polish guys kept the vodka in the freezer. Never froze . On a serious note I am having problems with type B breakers tripping when plugging in the charger due to the inrush current on the dc bus capacitor. What would you guys think of using a second set of 2 NTCs on the neutral side of the bridge rectifier?


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

attaman said:


> I wonder what ethylene glycol tastes like? That's why I use the ethanol/water solution a.k.a. vodka for the coolant


Ethylene Glycol freezes at -51c (For a 70% solution). 80-proof vodka, on the other hand, freezes at -27c. Of course, in Ireland, it won't get cold enough for that to really matter, but here in Canada, temperatures can get down to -45c pre-windchill.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> On a serious note I am having problems with type B breakers tripping when plugging in the charger due to the inrush current on the dc bus capacitor. What would you guys think of using a second set of 2 NTCs on the neutral side of the bridge rectifier?


It would probably work. Don't they get pretty hot in operation though? There is a point at which it is worth it efficiency wise to do a precharge circuit on the input. The PFC front end would also solve this but again you have the extra losses involved in that. Do you actually need caps as large as you have? Reducing the capacitance could be another way to solve it. Depends on the tolerable ripple currents. Since all we are doing is charging batteries you can probably get away with quite a lot. Its not like this is a lab grade power supply after all.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Good news : Hitting cv point to within 0.3v accuracy.
> Bad news : Not displaying the exact voltage on the screen. ie at 164v actual the display reads 162v but the firmware must be reading it as its easing off the current and holding voltage.


This sounds like calibration issue. What is you try to recalibrate with the battery voltage as close as possible to the operating voltage? Also, some error might be there due to a number of reasons:
1. Your multimeter might be averaging voltage differently from the charger firmware. Say, RMS vs straight average. Since there is a voltage ripple at the output, that could matter
2. Voltage drop in wiring. If you measure voltage at battery terminals, it will generally be lower than on charger output. At max current (60A), it can easily be a few volts off.

hope this helps.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> It would probably work. Don't they get pretty hot in operation though? There is a point at which it is worth it efficiency wise to do a precharge circuit on the input. The PFC front end would also solve this but again you have the extra losses involved in that. Do you actually need caps as large as you have? Reducing the capacitance could be another way to solve it. Depends on the tolerable ripple currents. Since all we are doing is charging batteries you can probably get away with quite a lot. Its not like this is a lab grade power supply after all.


yes, operating temp of 200C (!). Don't get them close to flammable / meltable material. The dissipation is actually not that high - 15-20W - just done from a very small area.

Precharge might be a good idea for non-PFC units. Should be relatively easy to implement in the current version of the charger. Will need a 50A 250VAC relay. The board already has relay drivers built in and input voltage is already being sensed so no other hardware changes are needed. I will post some code in a few min. Basically, I will use the fact that in an RC circuit, voltage goes up as exp(-<const>*<time>). Therefore, by monitoring rate of voltage rise, you can determine the point in time when to engage the relay. Or, of course, you can simply time it to turn on 5 sec after charger is plugged in. even with 10000uF (overkill), 100 Ohm precharge resistor would get you to within 1-e(-5) = 0.7% of the full voltage on caps within 5 sec. The dissipation in the resistor would be CU^2/2 = 0.01*330^2/2=500J. A 25W resistor should be able to handle that short-term dissipation. You won't even need to heatsink it.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

precharge code. This is from our controller firmware:

-----place this in the pin definition area in the beginning of the code-------
const int pin_precharge=8;
-------------------------------

-----place this in the setup() function -----------------------------------
pinMode(pin_precharge, OUTPUT);

//---------------- pre-charge sequence
// logic - sample voltage on input caps once every 100ms. When rate of 
// change drops either by 10x 
// or below 10V/sec, close the precharge bypass relay 
float prev_mainsV=read_mV();
float d_mainsV=0, d_mainsV0=0;
do {
n++;
delay(100);
mainsV=read_mV();
d_mainsV=mainsV-prev_mainsV;
if(n==1) d_mainsV0=d_mainsV; // first sample
} while(d_mainsV/d_mainsV0>0.1 && d_mainsV>1.);
digitalWrite(pin_precharge, HIGH);
-------------------------------------------------------------------

let me know how it works if you decide to implement

V


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> It tastes bad! Really bad. Vodka is not a bad idea. I used to work in a factory and the Polish guys kept the vodka in the freezer. Never froze . On a serious note I am having problems with type B breakers tripping when plugging in the charger due to the inrush current on the dc bus capacitor. What would you guys think of using a second set of 2 NTCs on the neutral side of the bridge rectifier?


from a relay perspective use a use one with a pre charge contacts.
I chose to replace the rectifiers with SCRs that allow ramp up.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I really don't want to go down the road of a precharge circuit if at all possible. Apart from anything I don't have a lot of room in the box! The NTCs are a very nice solution. Gotta do some thinking ....


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> It tastes bad! Really bad. Vodka is not a bad idea. I used to work in a factory and the Polish guys kept the vodka in the freezer. Never froze . On a serious note I am having problems with type B breakers tripping when plugging in the charger due to the inrush current on the dc bus capacitor. What would you guys think of using a second set of 2 NTCs on the neutral side of the bridge rectifier?


I've managed to freeze vodka before, you just need to set a lower temperature. The water freezes and the alcohol remains fluid. It's interesting to marvel at a chunk of frozen water inside of the alcohol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_distillation


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

This is large amperage relay I use. it has a precharge contacts you add a resistor.
EPIC® Hermetic Sealed DC and AC Contactor - 150+ Amp Power Switching
*Chassis level UL508 sized power terminals* – No need for specially routed power cables, special bus bars, or special lugs. 
*Rugged EPIC® Seal rated to 175°C* – Reduced risk of fire or meltdown in over current conditions. The same technology used for advanced aerospace programs.*
Hermetically Sealed* – Designed to meet: UL1604 for Class I & II, Div 2 and Class III for use in hazardous locations, IP67 for temporary water immersion for 30 min, SAE J1171 - external ignition protection, and ISO8846 for protection against ignition around flammable gasses. *

Optional High Efficiency Dual DC Coils* – Very low 12 or 24 VDC continuous coil power with no EMI emissions or cross-talk on your system control power. Ideal for battery powered systems or where low power is needed. 
*Built-in coil suppression for all DC coils* – Saves you engineering time and parts cost to add external coil suppression. 
*Stainless steel hardware and mounting inserts*, for years of corrosion free service. 
*UL508 ambient compliant* to 75°C but can operate continuously at 85°C with a higher terminal temperature rise of 60°C. Can also operate up to 125°C in special cases - contact GIGAVAC for details. 
*Not position sensitive* – can be mounted in any position for ease of installation.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> This is large amperage relay I use. it has a precharge contacts you add a resistor.
> EPIC® Hermetic Sealed DC and AC Contactor - 150+ Amp Power Switching
> *Chassis level UL508 sized power terminals* – No need for specially routed power cables, special bus bars, or special lugs.
> *Rugged EPIC® Seal rated to 175°C* – Reduced risk of fire or meltdown in over current conditions. The same technology used for advanced aerospace programs.*
> ...


Well, yes. But it's a $200 part... Doesn't really go along with a sub-$1000 charger concept I think. 

Damien, I think it's either:
1. Reduce the caps. You can calculate the minimum C you need from the power you are trying to draw and acceptable voltage drop on caps (I use 50V in my calcs). This is probably the easiest option.
2. Add more NTC's in series. This is an easy but lossy and hot option
3. Add precharge. This is the EE-correct option but requires additional hardware / code
4. Add inrush inductor. Heavy option. 
5. Add a manual 50A 250AC switch in place of precharge relay. This is probably the best option if you want to do minimal changes to the design.

Let us know what you end up doing and how it worked out.

Thanks,
V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

question for you guys. 

I want to implement a reverse polarity protection. Driven by a recent reverse polarity accident with our 320VDC battery. Was a bit scary actually...

Anyway, I am thinking of replacing an output diode with a thyristor. Couple of questions:
1. What would be the clever way to drive it? I would hate to have to add the whole opto+isolated power supply bundle to do just this
2. Are there any other ways to implement this without introducing significant extra loss into the charger? Solid-state relay could be one but (a) not sure it will withstand +/- 400V, and (b) it introduces up to 2V drop which is not fun.

Any clever ideas?

Thanks!
V


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I'd use the el cheapo style on my battery cables: Prior to turning on, connect cable. If LED's glow red, you are backwards, if they glow green, you are good to go. a couple of zeners, resistor or two, and a bi color led, you are done. Big massive LED for effect on battery connector end


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> Well, yes. But it's a $200 part... Doesn't really go along with a sub-$1000 charger concept I think.
> 
> V


Oh sorry, did not come across the $1,000 price.
Have to check my BOM for my project. Not sure it will be an advantage to you at that price.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> Oh sorry, did not come across the $1,000 price.
> Have to check my BOM for my project. Not sure it will be an advantage to you at that price.


yes, 10kW at <$1000 BOM seems to be the magic number. Pretty hard to achieve if you want a modern set of features but possible.

That said, we are also working on fast charging system which will naturally have a higher cost tolerance. Right now our fast charging is accomplished by 3 of the 10kW units in parallel pumping 25kW into the pack. We could probably be a bit more intelligent and run bigger devices (e.g., 600A 600V IGBT modules, large inductors, etc). For that project, your experience would be super-valuable.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

if I can be of assistance let me know.
However the design I use is SCR for the rectifiers that use zero crossing to control votage to the Raw DC bus. the SCR have hardware defined minumim voltage so the voltage reference can have power as well the low voltage componets. 
The Raw DC is fed to a Mosfet/zener combination that powers the Power processing like programming a larger voltage for the Raw DC.
The Direct DC is simply a blocking Diode. The protocol for the Connect is ramp up so there is no precharge to consider.
The Raw DC is then connected to a Ultra capacitor pack, if desired.
The controller and Batteries (charger/inverter) are also connected to the Raw DC bus
the Batteries have the equivalent of your charger and an inverter to boost the Batteries voltage to the RAW DC line level. this allows the battery pack to be 1/3 the voltage of the Raw DC.
The controller the Takes the RAW DC to feed the motor.
raw DC is 765 Volts at 300 amps.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> question for you guys.
> 
> I want to implement a reverse polarity protection. Driven by a recent reverse polarity accident with our 320VDC battery. Was a bit scary actually...
> 
> ...


cheapest is to add an contact on the hot lead that is connected to a led the indicates reverse polarity. so the contact is used before connecting the cable.

you can power your low voltage stuff with a mosfet for voltage divider and a 15 volt Zener the connect all you low voltage supplies to it. This lets all you sensor and you can have a crowbar that shuts down the charger. it late so I am not really coherent. will revisit this when I am awake and hae some coffee.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking in the case of the charger today I can fit in a single pole 50A shower contactor if I swap the rcbo for a standard single pole circuit breaker. This would allow for precharge. Basically , the rcbo combines a 30mA RCD (GFI) and a 32A circuit breaker in one. Now I have another rcbo in the feed to my home charge point and one in work. Also the on street charge points have 30mA RCDs built in so i'm starting to think the rcbo in the charger may be redundant? Any thoughts?


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

you can use a 10amp contactor for precharge if you want to be patient.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Looking in the case of the charger today I can fit in a single pole 50A shower contactor if I swap the rcbo for a standard single pole circuit breaker. This would allow for precharge. Basically , the rcbo combines a 30mA RCD (GFI) and a 32A circuit breaker in one. Now I have another rcbo in the feed to my home charge point and one in work. Also the on street charge points have 30mA RCDs built in so i'm starting to think the rcbo in the charger may be redundant? Any thoughts?


makes sense I think. let us know how it works. Are you planning to drive it off Arduino or some timed circuit or manually?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> you can use a 10amp contactor for precharge if you want to be patient.


not sure I understand. You need that contactor to be able to run full charger current (in jackbauer's case, 45A) through it once the precharge is complete. Or we are talking different circuits? I am envisioning just a contactor in parallel with 100 Ohm 25W resistor - placed between the bridge and the caps. When you connect AC power, the caps will charge through the resistor. Then after some period of time (either calculated by Arduino based on rate of voltage rise or just preset), the contactor closes to bypass the resistor. From then on, all the power flows through that contactor.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> not sure I understand. You need that contactor to be able to run full charger current (in jackbauer's case, 45A) through it once the precharge is complete. Or we are talking different circuits? I am envisioning just a contactor in parallel with 100 Ohm 25W resistor - placed between the bridge and the caps. When you connect AC power, the caps will charge through the resistor. Then after some period of time (either calculated by Arduino based on rate of voltage rise or just preset), the contactor closes to bypass the resistor. From then on, all the power flows through that contactor.


your solution seems the best.
actually you can hard wire the resistor since it will be shorted once the parallel contactor is made. you only need the contactor on the resistor if you leave the AC on all the time.
I was tongue n cheek about waiting.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Looking in the case of the charger today I can fit in a single pole 50A shower contactor if I swap the rcbo for a standard single pole circuit breaker. This would allow for precharge. Basically , the rcbo combines a 30mA RCD (GFI) and a 32A circuit breaker in one. Now I have another rcbo in the feed to my home charge point and one in work. Also the on street charge points have 30mA RCDs built in so i'm starting to think the rcbo in the charger may be redundant? Any thoughts?


why not use a thyristor as a softstarter, control it with the arduino they are small footprint dont you have any from all the ups you have peeled 

nfj


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Good news you guys - the latest version of the charger design is now fully tested and operational. We will start shipping it ASAP. I expect the kit pricing to go up by ~$200 but it will be more than offset by the dramatic improvement in manufacturability as you will no longer have to think about layout and wire power connections among components, etc. 

Major changes since last version:
1. PFC built in by default 
2. Everything is on the PCBs now, including the power stage. Minimal wiring required now
3. Improved sensor hookup and component selection to increase resolution by a factor of 2 (voltage) to 4 (current).
4. Everything is spec'ed to be included into a 10x8x7" box, with a 7" diameter radiator fan mounted outside the box. We will start supplying enclosures together with kits soon.

Let me know if any questions.

V


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

just a few points now your at this level.
I suggest you make you project IP65.
add a extruded Heat sink to the side for box, the fins are outside the box.
have a solder mask on the PCBs.
use non corrosive RTV on the back of the PCB's to cover solder points. Use non corrosive RTV and all parts on a PCB that are larger than 1/2 Watt. 

I suggest also that the unit only be mounted in the Trunk to remove as much Dust and corrosive mist that get generated when driving.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> Looking in the case of the charger today I can fit in a single pole 50A shower contactor if I swap the rcbo for a standard single pole circuit breaker. This would allow for precharge. Basically , the rcbo combines a 30mA RCD (GFI) and a 32A circuit breaker in one. Now I have another rcbo in the feed to my home charge point and one in work. Also the on street charge points have 30mA RCDs built in so i'm starting to think the rcbo in the charger may be redundant? Any thoughts?


If you are using the charger only with J1772 EVSE I see no reason to have any kind of circuit breaker on the input side. The J1772 EVSE already has that. If you are planning on having a low power mode where you can plug an extension cord into a wall outlet you would probably want to fuse that although with this charger the problem is turning it down enough so it doesn't activate the residential protection device. You do need a fuse or breaker between the charger and the battery because there is no protection there and there are a couple of components that fail shorted.

I need to get back to work on my charger as I am fast approaching the time when I will want to use it.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> If you are using the charger only with J1772 EVSE I see no reason to have any kind of circuit breaker on the input side. The J1772 EVSE already has that. If you are planning on having a low power mode where you can plug an extension cord into a wall outlet you would probably want to fuse that although with this charger the problem is turning it down enough so it doesn't activate the residential protection device. You do need a fuse or breaker between the charger and the battery because there is no protection there and there are a couple of components that fail shorted.
> 
> I need to get back to work on my charger as I am fast approaching the time when I will want to use it.


Hi Doug - actually it doesn't matter whether your fuse on the input or output. The output diode is preventing the current flow from the battery so even if your IGBTs fail shorted, there will be no short seen by the battery. That said, you probably do need a fuse on the output for reverse polarity protection ("crowbar"-style protection - better than nothing, unless some other method is implemented).

So, save for polarity protection, I would just fuse the input since you will have a direct short from line to battery if your buck IGBT fails. If your PFC IGBT fails, you have an internal short for the line input. In both cases, if the line is broken by a fuse, you are protected. 

Hope this makes sense


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> just a few points now your at this level.
> I suggest you make you project IP65.
> add a extruded Heat sink to the side for box, the fins are outside the box.
> have a solder mask on the PCBs.
> ...


Thanks!

very good suggestions. One of them is a bit problematic though - IP65. That is, until we figure out a way to cool inductors without airflow... Working on that (having custom inductors made in China for us) but probably a bit off still. If you have any ideas, we would definitely welcome!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> why not use a thyristor as a softstarter, control it with the arduino they are small footprint dont you have any from all the ups you have peeled
> 
> nfj


nfj - how would you wire the thyristor in this case? You would need a variable current through gate to control ramp, no? How would you provide that?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

My take on the inductors is to embed them in the heatsink with thermal epoxy. Either liquid or air cooled.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> Thanks!
> 
> very good suggestions. One of them is a bit problematic though - IP65. That is, until we figure out a way to cool inductors without airflow... Working on that (having custom inductors made in China for us) but probably a bit off still. If you have any ideas, we would definitely welcome!


I use an outside pcb that has standoff and a sheet metal cover with a flange to use sheet metal screws.
The large capacitors should be in a fluid cooling to prolong life.
I did this by making them on a PCB that is the cover of a regular chassis box with RTV seal.I use 5w oil.
BTW you might think of employing Disabled or stay at home in USA for the coils.
I support some software that is enterprise Material requirements. it has a manufacturing component. be glad to work with you on setting yourself up. The software is open source and a Apache Foundation TLC


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

to give you a little info about me in the area. I started @ 12 as a Ham with tubes. that was 1953. our family had a business of Automatic Pilot for Fishing boats. I started as the floor sweeper, and learned each disipline of the business, Clean room for Compasses, Electronics, Welding, Machining, Motor tear down and coil and armature build, Hydraulics and design.
The business ran for over 100yrs and had the reputation for being accurate and dependable.
Boats are notorious for putting electronics here there is not circulation and extreme temps. They are also known for their bad grounding and RF running over every conductor.
EV wise I looked at dong my toyota but got Caught up converting my Bus I live in to a electric.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Well, yes. But it's a $200 part... Doesn't really go along with a sub-$1000 charger concept I think.
> 
> Damien, I think it's either:
> 1. Reduce the caps. You can calculate the minimum C you need from the power you are trying to draw and acceptable voltage drop on caps (I use 50V in my calcs). This is probably the easiest option.
> ...


Just thought about this a bit more and asked a couple of people. Two updates:
1. PFC version will need inrush limiting, as well - the AC line "sees" the PFC storage caps upon connection (only a low-inductance PFC inductor between rectifier bridge and the caps).
2. Some people suggested that one doesn't really need a large inductor for this low-frequency application. They mentioned laminated steel core.... What do you guys think?

V


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

This thread never dies... What's the current status? Can I build one of these or not?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bruceme said:


> This thread never dies... What's the current status? Can I build one of these or not?


Hi Bruce - of course. Many people did and you can, too. 

Product improvement is a never-ending process, though. So I do not expect this thread ever to die ;-)


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

valerun said:


> Thanks!
> 
> very good suggestions. One of them is a bit problematic though - IP65. That is, until we figure out a way to cool inductors without airflow... Working on that (having custom inductors made in China for us) but probably a bit off still. If you have any ideas, we would definitely welcome!


We use watercooled inductors on our pipe mill welders. Just make sure that you do not create a conduction path with the water connections.

Dawid


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

valerun said:


> nfj - how would you wire the thyristor in this case? You would need a variable current through gate to control ramp, no? How would you provide that?


http://download.vincotech.com/power/documentsection/AN40903%20Active%20PFC%20with%20Inrush%20Control.pdf

her is a nize setup with short circuit protection and active pfc 

and here is how to with a thyristor and a mosfet to control the inrush.

http://www.edn-europe.com/limitinrushcurrentinhighpowerapplications+article+4723+Europe.html


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Jack, I'm not sure what the problem is, so my sugestion might be prety stupid. Since I have 2 sets of 250V capacitors, I've placed the pre-charge circuit between these two sets. Because I think there's the least amount of current running. And switching the relay occurs at zero volt. Just wait for the input voltage to become stable. I don't know how much current is generated there. I suppose it's a function of the current running trough the main circuit, and/or the voltage. I think that place simplifies the pre-charge relay significantly.

btw. I've blown up my gate driver, does anyone know a better ebay source?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Its actually not so much a problem now. Never tripped out at home as its switched via contactor in the evse. It frequently trips a 32A breaker in work but i suspect this may be due to the manual isolator switch arcing or bouncing at switch on.


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## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hi guys,

I really appreciate the work, you put in this project, it is really awesome! (I love Arduino, and the fact that it can do anything.)
I read the emotorwerks site, and more than 15 pages from this topic, and still keeping on reading, but I can't wait for the answers  :

I have read that batt.packs above 50V are supported. Is it really so?
I would like to use this charger with different packs, ranging from 36V to 84V.
Do this support my "small" 36V / 48V packs also?

(a sub question: I got some TS90 LFP cells, which are deep discharged, because a friend of mine let the distributed BMS modules on them, without charging for 5 months, and they "ate" the cells. Each are about 0.2V. I am trying to recover them 1by1, and it would be very good, if I could charge them "automatically", with a special curve. But it means ~4.0V charging voltage, at 0.5A. Is it possible to use this charger for such purposes?)

I would use it in Europe, where the PFC module is said to be recommended. However (if I don't really want to go above 3kW) is it a must, or can be omitted?

Did you perhaps considered using Olimex's Olimexino-STM32?
(http://www.olimex.com/dev/olimexino-stm32.html)
It's not an ordinary Arduino board, but a Maple clone, but it has built in CAN support, on the half price of a Sparkfun CANShield (+ the price of the Arduino board, so the cost is under 1/3). For automotive purposes, it can be a good choice (I think  )

I would like to add the code for the Sparkfun DS1307 module (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/99), I have used it a couple of times. 

When can I buy the latest version of the charger? 

Thanks
KG


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

kovgab3 said:


> (a sub question: I got some TS90 LFP cells, which are deep discharged, because a friend of mine let the distributed BMS modules on them, without charging for 5 months, and they "ate" the cells. Each are about 0.2V. I am trying to recover them 1by1, and it would be very good, if I could charge them "automatically", with a special curve. But it means ~4.0V charging voltage, at 0.5A. Is it possible to use this charger for such purposes?)


While this is OT I would caution against charging your cells to 4.0V. Just use a bench top PS and set it to 3.4V and what ever current it can put out and you can leave it alone essentially forever. At low currents you don't charge to as high of a voltage as you do when you stop the charge at 0.05C or 4.5A in the case of your 90Ah cells.


----------



## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

Thank you for your suggestion, I will try it.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> http://download.vincotech.com/power/documentsection/AN40903%20Active%20PFC%20with%20Inrush%20Control.pdf
> 
> her is a nize setup with short circuit protection and active pfc
> 
> ...


GREAT stuff - thanks!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kovgab3 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I really appreciate the work, you put in this project, it is really awesome! (I love Arduino, and the fact that it can do anything.)


thanks!



kovgab3 said:


> I have read that batt.packs above 50V are supported. Is it really so?
> I would like to use this charger with different packs, ranging from 36V to 84V.
> Do this support my "small" 36V / 48V packs also?


yes. With packs of this voltage, your setup would be even easier - I would not do PFC since you are going to be limited in power anyway (output current is limited to 50-60A due to the inductor saturation). Moreover, you don't need a voltage doubler since you are going to use 220V in Europe (and even if you connect to 110 here, you get plenty of voltage for your batteries). 



kovgab3 said:


> (a sub question: I got some TS90 LFP cells, which are deep discharged, because a friend of mine let the distributed BMS modules on them, without charging for 5 months, and they "ate" the cells. Each are about 0.2V. I am trying to recover them 1by1, and it would be very good, if I could charge them "automatically", with a special curve. But it means ~4.0V charging voltage, at 0.5A. Is it possible to use this charger for such purposes?)


You can try. Current regulation is down to ~0.5A in this charger so you might have to accept 1.0A fluctuating to 0.5A and 1.5A. Moreover, I would agree with another poster and not set 4.0V. I would rather set the CV at some low voltage and see if the cells come up (the output voltage will be very low in the beginning regardless of what you set CV at - until cells are charged a bit) - maybe 3.3 or 3.4V. 



kovgab3 said:


> Did you perhaps considered using Olimex's Olimexino-STM32?
> (http://www.olimex.com/dev/olimexino-stm32.html)
> It's not an ordinary Arduino board, but a Maple clone, but it has built in CAN support, on the half price of a Sparkfun CANShield (+ the price of the Arduino board, so the cost is under 1/3). For automotive purposes, it can be a good choice (I think  )


Unlikely we are going to change design of that piece much at that stage. That said, we are using Max32 boards with CAN for our EV Dashboard product (being released now).



kovgab3 said:


> When can I buy the latest version of the charger?


Now would be a good time ;-) Would you be looking for a fully built unit or a kit? Please send an email to valery at emotorwerks dot com and we will discuss further.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hi Valery,

Email has been sent to you.
thanks,


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Little update on the charger :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shqN9MLRVWE
Sorry for my bad camera work. Ended up taking the easy option on the inrush issue and just used two more NTCs. No more tripped breakers.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Cool, Cool Charger, Great Job !!!! and Happy Holidays to all of you, too!!!


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi all, I've seen this thread since it's creation and read a little about it. With the gargantuan size of this thread, I'm certainly not keen on reading all 300+ pages as I'm more interested in just having one, not really concerned with knowing all the inner workings of it. 

Just wondering what the status is at this point. Is this charger ready now and all the bugs worked out or are you still working through some things? IIRC, you were planning for a kit at some point and also sell them already built. If you're not at that point yet will this ever happen? 

Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend!


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Hi all, I've seen this thread since it's creation and read a little about it. With the gargantuan size of this thread, I'm certainly not keen on reading all 300+ pages as I'm more interested in just having one, not really concerned with knowing all the inner workings of it.
> 
> Just wondering what the status is at this point. Is this charger ready now and all the bugs worked out or are you still working through some things? IIRC, you were planning for a kit at some point and also sell them already built. If you're not at that point yet will this ever happen?
> 
> Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend!


I've been following this thread a bit as well, Valerun has kits available and the best info I've found is from the links in his signature.

Although it looks like work is still going on I think the charger is at a mature point where if you jumped in now you would have a solid charger. (and one that you can update the firmware as things are updated!!!)


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## klapauzius (Dec 22, 2011)

I am new to this forum, but I have followed this thread with quite some interest. Not having read all of it, I saw that you briefly discussed an isolated design. 

Do you think it is possible to modify the current design to make it isolated? 

If it were, in theory one could use it to charge a Leaf through the QC port (leaving all the CHaDeMO protocol issues aside for a moment).
Since the current charger on the Leaf is quite small (3.3 kW) and L3 charging stations are rare, but J1772 compatible L2 chargers, some capable of supplying 19.8 kW, are more plentiful, I thought a CHaDeMO to J1772 "adapter" would be quite practical.

A central element in such an adapter would be an isolated charger (which needs at least 400 V DC output) which would be fed either through a standard AC power connector or J1772 connector (which would make it work with L2 evses), and output through CHaDeMO.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Why would the charger need to be isolated for this application? I would guess the Leaf uses a floating pack.


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## klapauzius (Dec 22, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> Why would the charger need to be isolated for this application? I would guess the Leaf uses a floating pack.


It wont charge if connected to a non-isolated charger, I have been told.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Can anyone who has built the EMW charger post a picture or two of their completed innards? I've got the kit and am deep into it but the build details provided are...let's say less than complete.

Thanks


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> GREAT stuff - thanks!


Val, is it possible to buy the gate driver circuit only? I can't find an A3120 source on ebay, and I can't buy anything from digikey et al. And I don't want to make a habbit of blowing it up. So, I prefer a complete circuit with resistors, caps and the +15, -15V dc converter. 

And to anyone: I've a few big 250V caps in series to get 500V. That works, but they tend to get out of balance. They end up with zero volts over the the lot, but with a few volts in the caps self. That imbalance grows over time and use, and decreases the total voltage a few volts.

I've placed a few 250k resistors, but they don't seem to work. I can see the voltage drop slowly if it's still high, but when it gets low it hardly drops anymore. I seem to need resistors that increse their resistance when the voltage rises, and visa versa. Do they exist? Or is there another way


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Jan said:


> Val, is it possible to buy the gate driver circuit only? I can't find an A3120 source on ebay, and I can't buy anything from digikey et al. And I don't want to make a habbit of blowing it up. So, I prefer a complete circuit with resistors, caps and the +15, -15V dc converter.
> 
> hi Jan
> 
> ...


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

I'll repeat my plea for help: Are any of the past builders of the EMW kit reading this thread and would be willing to answer questions? The kit contents I received a couple of weeks ago don't match the BOM or schematic in a few areas and I need some assistance piecing together this puzzle.

Thanks and Merry Christmas


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Ask away. Mine is a little different but the core charger remains the same.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

nfj said:


> Jan said:
> 
> 
> > Val, is it possible to buy the gate driver circuit only? I can't find an A3120 source on ebay, and I can't buy anything from digikey et al. And I don't want to make a habbit of blowing it up. So, I prefer a complete circuit with resistors, caps and the +15, -15V dc converter.
> ...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Jan I have an RS account so don't be stuck.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Jan said:


> Val, is it possible to buy the gate driver circuit only? I can't find an A3120 source on ebay, and I can't buy anything from digikey et al. And I don't want to make a habbit of blowing it up. So, I prefer a complete circuit with resistors, caps and the +15, -15V dc converter.
> 
> And to anyone: I've a few big 250V caps in series to get 500V. That works, but they tend to get out of balance. They end up with zero volts over the the lot, but with a few volts in the caps self. That imbalance grows over time and use, and decreases the total voltage a few volts.
> 
> I've placed a few 250k resistors, but they don't seem to work. I can see the voltage drop slowly if it's still high, but when it gets low it hardly drops anymore. I seem to need resistors that increse their resistance when the voltage rises, and visa versa. Do they exist? Or is there another way


Hi Guys - sorry for some reason I stopped receiving notifications from the thread a few days ago... Was kind of wondering ;-)

Anyway, a few answers:

1. Jan: Yes, you can definitely get just a gate drive circuit. Please email me directly at valery at emotorwerks dot com with more specifics / for more details. On caps & resistors - are your caps identical? We are spec'ing 82k 3W resistors across those big caps for HV dissipation once charger is disconnected. But I don't think they will help much with voltage imbalance...

2. to people asking about the state of development: the design is fairly mature and quite a few people have these things working. Next iteration of the kits will have PCBs for everything but we will first use those to build complete units, with kits following in a couple of weeks or so.

3. On isolation for Leaf: interesting. If you don't connect the ground, how will it figure out that the charger is not isolated? On isolation point in general - this is likely still a couple of months off. not so easy to build a 10kW high-frequency transformer.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

11kW test of the new kit format went well in the last 2 days. Still air cooled.

Now working on rewriting control loop with PID code from our motor controllers.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Is that the pcb version? What temp rise were you getting on the heatsink? Well done.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Is that the pcb version? What temp rise were you getting on the heatsink? Well done.


yes. 30C over ambient. Inductors are off heatsink but in airflow. get to ~120C. Fan is a single 120mm, 3A 12VDC, operated at 15V so ~60W.


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks, Jack. I'll remember that.

Val, as you can see I ordered again on ebay. And I'll try it one more time myself. And I'll try smaller resistors, or more precize I place a few in parallel. 

And yes, the caps are supposed to be the same. So, I gather, it isn't normal this happens? Maybe one or two are a bit out of shape. 

But the strange thing is, the voltage inbalance is not always the same. It can be negative or positive on either set. 

To be exact: I've got 4 caps in total, with 2 in parallel and in series. With the pre-charge resistor and relay in the middle. Maybe that's not such a good idea.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Jan said:


> Thanks, Jack. I'll remember that.
> 
> Val, as you can see I ordered again on ebay. And I'll try it one more time myself. And I'll try smaller resistors, or more precize I place a few in parallel.


what was the failure mode? Also, if you post a photo of your power stage layout, would help diagnose. Thx!


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

For those who are working with the code and trying to compile it with the latest arduino environment (1.0), it threw a slew of errors involving WProgram.h when I tried to compile it. A quick google search came up with this (just an example, ignore the references to pins_arduino etc):

"Yeah, Arduino 1.0 basically breaks most libraries. I'll be publishing all new libraries for my products this week, but in the mean time, you can simply change the include in DigitShield.h from this:

*Code:*
#include "WProgram.h"
#include <pins_arduino.h>


to this:

*Code:*
#if defined(ARDUINO) && ARDUINO >= 100
#include "Arduino.h"
#else
#include "WProgram.h"
#include <pins_arduino.h>
#endif"

Looks like the include for 1.0 should be Arduino.h 
WProgram.h is "include"d in the base program file and the lcd library.

edit: unfortunately that's not all it takes to fix this.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> For those who are working with the code and trying to compile it with the latest arduino environment (1.0), it threw a slew of errors involving WProgram.h when I tried to compile it. A quick google search came up with this (just an example, ignore the references to pins_arduino etc):
> 
> "Yeah, Arduino 1.0 basically breaks most libraries. I'll be publishing all new libraries for my products this week, but in the mean time, you can simply change the include in DigitShield.h from this:
> 
> ...


yes, that's a bummer. I will post Arduino 0022 version on our site - this is a previous distro under which everything compiles.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> yes, that's a bummer. I will post Arduino 0022 version on our site - this is a previous distro under which everything compiles.


Yup, that's actually how I got around this. 022 is still available from the arduino site.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> yes, that's a bummer. I will post Arduino 0022 version on our site - this is a previous distro under which everything compiles.


ok here goes - http://www.eMotorWerks.com/code/arduino-0022.zip. Note that it's a 83MB file... As far as I know, you can unzip it into whatever folder and it will work (Arduino.exe is in the main folder of that archive). As a bonus, this archive includes all the libraries referenced on our site that are required to make charger code work...

Let me know if further issues.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Shouldn't the 10k resistor at the bottom of the driver board go to the ground plane? Right now it's going....nowhere.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Shouldn't the 10k resistor at the bottom of the driver board go to the ground plane? Right now it's going....nowhere.


you're right. Should go to ground. Looks like a glitch with a ground plane in this batch. Sorry about it.


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## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi Guys - sorry for some reason I stopped receiving notifications from the thread a few days ago... Was kind of wondering ;-)


Hi Valery,

Did you received my email?
I still would like to get a charger 

thanks,
KG


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> what was the failure mode? Also, if you post a photo of your power stage layout, would help diagnose. Thx!


Thanks for the offer, Val. But I've got to rebuild it first again. When I receive my gate driver, I'll post a pretty picture. I've played a little, after my first kill, with a couple of power transistors, a pnp (or was it npn?) transistor and an under powered opto coupler, to make my own 'gate driver'. But that leads to nowhere. It's all about learning and understanding. Step by step.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kovgab3 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Did you received my email?
> I still would like to get a charger
> ...


Sorry KG - can't locate it for some reason - could you please resend?

Thanks!
V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

All - couple of updates:

1. Per popular request, some layout photos for a non-PFC buck stage, PFC stage, and full PFC charger were posted on our site at http://www.emotorwerks.com/images/EMWsite/charger_V13/buck/, http://www.emotorwerks.com/images/EMWsite/charger_V13/PFC/, and http://www.emotorwerks.com/images/EMWsite/charger_V13/fullPFC/. All of these are also linked to from our main charger page and the PFC page.

2. Note that to get a full version of the page, you have to add the following code to our usual page address: "?cc=gfw7iuef7" (usual page is http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl). Advice of our lawyers... ;-)

Let me know if any questions.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks Valery, that helps a lot.

I see that the buck pictures and the schematic show two snubber capacitors but only one comes with the kit. Am I correct in assuming that this is the one that is not necessary?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Thanks Valery, that helps a lot.
> 
> I see that the buck pictures and the schematic show two snubber capacitors but only one comes with the kit. Am I correct in assuming that this is the one that is not necessary?


Yes, that's right.


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## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

valerun said:


> Sorry KG - can't locate it for some reason - could you please resend?


Hi Val,

I have sent you the email, from 2 different email addresses 
Hope now arrives.

thanks in advance,
KG


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Happy New Year everyone! 

The New 2012 will bring a lot of new exciting events for EV-land. We are all pioneers of what to come and we at EMW are proud to contribute to the noble cause of freeing the world from fossil transportation!

Best of Wishes to you all.

Valery.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Valery,
Happy new year and best wishes to you as well. Your contributions and patience with those of us that are not quite as electronically advanced is much appreciated.


And now another technical question 

After I got your response about the snubber, i was reviewing the lessons learned on your charger page and it says "RC Snubbers across freewheel diodes" and " RCD snubber - not used in our current design -...across collector-emitter" (I assume the latter refers to the switching half of the IGBT).
That seems opposite of the post a couple back where you say the freewheel diode snubber is not needed. I'm soldering these up and will be going live soon, so I want to confirm (and I'd like to learn). Why no freewheel snubber anymore -or- what did I misunderstand?

edit: added another question. There are two 60A output diodes in the parts kit. Are these used in parallel? I'm not seeing any references to multiple output diodes elsewhere...

Thanks


----------



## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I asked about using the charger for controlling solar via MPPT (maximum power point tracking . Someone built a small one using Arduino . Link also has good description why it helps maximize watts from not well matched or varying sources like solar , wind ,hydro and generators . www.timnolan.com


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Jack now that you've gotten your 10K charger up and running so beautifully would you consider documenting the schematic, bill of materials and build instructions?







I like your layout and the hardware you have come to use. 

Is that Val's printed circuit board I see in your videos? I bought 2 of his first generation boards. Have yet to build. I hope the first generation is still a valid PCB.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

swoozle , the reason the freewheel diode snubber is not required on the latest gen is that the low side igbt is used as the freewheel. As it is in the same package as the switching igbt the inductance in the path from switch to diode is negligible and thus no hard spikes are created that would have required snubbing. Previous version used a separate igbt and diode hence the need for a snubber. Hope that explains the situation.

2010Ranger , I can do some documentation certainly if it would be beneficial. The biggest difficulty is obtaining a liquid cooled heatsink. Everything else is off the shelf more or less. Those suppliers that claim to supply them actually can't (surprise surprise eh?) and anyone that I have approached for custom manufacture either locally here in Ireland or abroad want silly money. I'm still looking for a good solution. Yes it's Val's control board with a few mods for input / output , j1772 etc.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks Jack, that explains it perfectly.

Another question for you, I saw your question a ways back about disabling the pack voltage check in the current firmware so you could run your heating element deadload test but I didn't see an answer. I'm getting close to that point and would like to do the same. I assume you modified the code yourself; is it fairly trivial? If not, could I get a snippet of the changes you made?

Thanks


----------



## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Jack.

"The biggest difficulty is obtaining a liquid cooled heatsink. Everything else is off the shelf more or less. Those suppliers that claim to supply them actually can't (surprise surprise eh?) and anyone that I have approached for custom manufacture either locally here in Ireland or abroad want silly money. I'm still looking for a good solution."

Hi and happy new year

http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/product-group/liquidcoldplates/blister

how much cooling is needed  ? the one shown is 4Kw

will ask them for a price, they will be back 3/01

regards nfj


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

swoozle , what I did at first was to use an older code that did not check for battery voltage. Afterwards I did a test with the charger outside the car and programmed the settings into eprom.They stay in eprom even after a code change which is very useful. I have a modded code on the laptop which i will upload later.

nfj , I contacted avid thermalloy (amongst others) a few weeks back. They provided contact details for an Irish agent who explained that despite the wonderful looking website these parts were not in fact available , would be a 90 day leadtime for samples at a cost of over 700 euros each. Another wonderful example of the "oem only" rule that seems to be working out very well these days. Just ask A123


----------



## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> nfj , I contacted avid thermalloy (amongst others) a few weeks back. They provided contact details for an Irish agent who explained that despite the wonderful looking website these parts were not in fact available , would be a 90 day leadtime for samples at a cost of over 700 euros each. Another wonderful example of the "oem only" rule that seems to be working out very well these days. Just ask A123


was it the company's price you asked for 
http://www.rell.com/Pages/Search-Results.aspx?productCategory=10190
on there web 10 is available 38.93$ but dont know if they are efektive enough


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Interesting. McMaster have something similar.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Interesting. McMaster have something similar.


I have searched a little on the net 
http://dk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Aavid-Thermalloy/416401U00000G/?qs=nRD1PKnFC2Ee55JbQfizjw==
288euro it is for 15= 18euro mouser is also in ireland

http://dk.farnell.com/aavid-thermalloy/416401u00000g/liquid-cold-plate/dp/1773327#similarProducts
they have a sister company in usa

group purchase


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Here we go :
http://ie.farnell.com/aavid-thermalloy/416601u00000g/liquid-cold-plate/dp/1773329

Call it 200 euro. So much for cutting out the middle man! Thanks for the tip nfj much appreciated.


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Here we go :
> http://ie.farnell.com/aavid-thermalloy/416601u00000g/liquid-cold-plate/dp/1773329
> 
> Call it 200 euro. So much for cutting out the middle man! Thanks for the tip nfj much appreciated.


you are welcome 

it is 6eur cheaper in Ireland


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

hi jack and Val

more batteries bigger charger in your BMW  bigger everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX-_azD2vNo&feature=related


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## Inframan (Jan 30, 2011)

I have some questions because I am thinking about building this charger too. Could I use another lcd than the one recommended? Because I already have a few laying around. Pin out is as follows-
1=logic supply voltage (plus 5v) 
2=ground 
3=LCD driver voltage+13v 
4=data or instruction 
5=r/w select 
6=enable signal 
7-14=data bus line 
15=chip selection segment driver 1 
16=chip selection segment driver 2 
17=reset signal 
18=dc-dc converter 
19=led backlight anode 
20=led back light cathode 
Where exactly would the RX and TX connect to?


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## nfj (Sep 25, 2009)

Inframan said:


> I have some questions because I am thinking about building this charger too. Could I use another lcd than the one recommended? Because I already have a few laying around. Pin out is as follows-
> 1=logic supply voltage (plus 5v)
> 2=ground
> 3=LCD driver voltage+13v
> ...


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Valery or anyone: There are dual 60A output diodes in the kit. Is one of those a freewheel diode from when the IGBT was but a half-bridge (and so is now unnecessary)?

Thanks


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Obviously I can't be sure but I only used one diode and that was on the output.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> swoozle , what I did at first was to use an older code that did not check for battery voltage. Afterwards I did a test with the charger outside the car and programmed the settings into eprom.They stay in eprom even after a code change which is very useful. I have a modded code on the laptop which i will upload later.


Jack, I've got the charger ready to roll and am working on testing it. If you get a chance to post that code it would be much appreciated. Thanks


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Modded code attached. Be careful as the voltage sensor will not be very well calibrated. I'd suggest using a small load for a first test. Say a 100w light bulb.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Somehow I managed to kill the 15V DC-DC.... but thanks for the code, Jack, I'll use it in a few days when I get the new 15V.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> hi jack and Val
> 
> more batteries bigger charger in your BMW  bigger everything
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX-_azD2vNo&feature=related


;-) going to be even bigger soon. The prototype 2 we are building now has 120 cells for ~400VDC working voltage!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Valery or anyone: There are dual 60A output diodes in the kit. Is one of those a freewheel diode from when the IGBT was but a half-bridge (and so is now unnecessary)?
> 
> Thanks


Hi, sorry for the delay. These are output diodes. If you want to run the charger at max output current (60A), it's a good idea to use 2 of these in parallel - unless you have a very good cooling setup like jackbauer's.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

all - we are shooting an assembly video for a non-PFC version now - using a 10x8x7" box. Should help with assembly. Will have it done next week.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Inframan said:


> I have some questions because I am thinking about building this charger too. Could I use another lcd than the one recommended? Because I already have a few laying around. Pin out is as follows-
> 1=logic supply voltage (plus 5v)
> 2=ground
> 3=LCD driver voltage+13v
> ...


would be tough - your LCD requires at least 10 data outputs from Arduino. The charger firmware uses almost all available - definitely not going to find 10. Now, you can of course replace the arduino we use with Arduino Mega but that would require wiring the connections with jump wire etc. Too much trouble for saving $40 on LCD IMO.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> Jack now that you've gotten your 10K charger up and running so beautifully would you consider documenting the schematic, bill of materials and build instructions?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First generation is a valid PCB (that actually was 4th generation but the first we started to sell).

Schematics and all other info are still on our site at http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7

We have just added build photos to that page. Next week we will ad a build video that is being shot now.

Let me know if questions.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

nfj said:


> Jack.
> 
> "The biggest difficulty is obtaining a liquid cooled heatsink. Everything else is off the shelf more or less. Those suppliers that claim to supply them actually can't (surprise surprise eh?) and anyone that I have approached for custom manufacture either locally here in Ireland or abroad want silly money. I'm still looking for a good solution."
> 
> ...


what about these:
http://www.rell.com/Pages/Search-Results.aspx?productCategory=10190

I would go with 2 units of 180-10-6C Wakefield plates (6x3" each) for this charger, connect water paths in series. Benefit of using 2 is flexibility in where you put the holes for mounting parts (input bridge, IGBT, output diode, inductor).


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> what about these:
> http://www.rell.com/Pages/Search-Results.aspx?productCategory=10190
> 
> I would go with 2 units of 180-10-6C Wakefield plates (6x3" each) for this charger, connect water paths in series. Benefit of using 2 is flexibility in where you put the holes for mounting parts (input bridge, IGBT, output diode, inductor).


here is the manfucture I have used for cold plates
http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/contact/disty-search
I use the 4 pass cost about $108 each. 
if you have machining ability you can drill a block of aluminum then use copper tubing fitting epoxied on the ends.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> here is the manfucture I have used for cold plates
> http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/contact/disty-search
> I use the 4 pass cost about $108 each.
> if you have machining ability you can drill a block of aluminum then use copper tubing fitting epoxied on the ends.


hm, that's a good idea. Would increase the thermal resistance though, no?

BTW http://www.rell.com/Pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=173961 is a 4-4-pass 6x5.5" - $58 at quantity of 25. 

We could do a group buy - if enough of you guys are interested, I can order a lot of 25 and resell to you guys at nominal price covering my shipping etc. 

let me know.
Valery.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> hm, that's a good idea. Would increase the thermal resistance though, no?


it depends if you use a 1/2 thick block with 1/4 tubing you will have more thermal resistance over a 3/8 thick block with 1/4 tubing or 1/2 thick with 3/8 tubing.



> BTW http://www.rell.com/Pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=173961 is a 4-4-pass 6x5.5" - $58 at quantity of 25.
> 
> We could do a group buy - if enough of you guys are interested, I can order a lot of 25 and resell to you guys at nominal price covering my shipping etc.
> 
> ...


The difference between yours and the one I showed you is thermal resistance. The ones I showed you have the tubing exposed to the base of the IGBT. 
you can built a cheap one that should work using an aluminum box with a seperator in it to have the fluid cicurlate from input to output port. That is the design I am moving to for the IGBT's and Torroids and D type Ferrite transformer I use.


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

valerun said:


> all - we are shooting an assembly video for a non-PFC version now - using a 10x8x7" box. Should help with assembly. Will have it done next week.


Valery, that’s great news. Thank you… thank you…. Please consider shooting, viewing and publishing the video with the novice to intermediate builder in mind. Doing so should keep you, and this forum, from having to answering a lot of questions. Not that a good question doesn’t add to the discussion.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

ARG, I got bitten by missing the A4/A5 pins on the arduino headers. I'd feel really dumb but JackBauer got caught by the same error. 

Ya know, I think I actually would have caught that if there was a 2-pin header connector in the kit.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> ARG, I got bitten by missing the A4/A5 pins on the arduino headers. I'd feel really dumb but JackBauer got caught by the same error.
> 
> Ya know, I think I actually would have caught that if there was a 2-pin header connector in the kit.


Included 3-pin female header can be used by removing one pin. Also, A4 is not used by charger firmware and A5 is used for mains voltage sensing. Losing that signal should not result in any serious consequences. At worst, the charger won't start or will limit power to 1.5-1.8kW.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

have you thought of breaking outs parts for a DC to DC.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

bjfreeman said:


> have you thought of breaking outs parts for a DC to DC.


A DC/DC converter needs to be isolated. There would be considerable changes to the design.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> A DC/DC converter needs to be isolated. There would be considerable changes to the design.


absolutely correct. Also, DC/DC (assuming you mean pack voltage -> 12V converter) is not a pressing problem in EV conversions land - there are a ton of offerings and one can hack any 12V power supply to make one.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> absolutely correct. Also, DC/DC (assuming you mean pack voltage -> 12V converter) is not a pressing problem in EV conversions land - there are a ton of offerings and one can hack any 12V power supply to make one.


What I see is that power supplies that are used do not follow the stage charging and or high current that are in most autos currently.
but OK, I will continue with mine.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

dougingraham said:


> A DC/DC converter needs to be isolated. There would be considerable changes to the design.


Isolated in what way?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> Isolated in what way?


full galvanic isolation from the mains. which this charger isn't (like any other available on DIY conversion market). We are now working on an isolated version but that's just one of the many things we are working on and likely not going to be released for a few months.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

OK, that was...interesting. I managed to kill the IGBT. 
The inductor was sitting on the heat sink and grounded out when the IGBT switched on. I'd just mounted the control board on threaded rod standoffs on the chassis, so that was the path to ground. Amazingly, the control board appears to be ok even though the ground pin on the 12v power supply gave a significant puff of smoke.
However, now the IGBT is wide open permanently. .3 ohms C1 to E1 either way. Not quite sure how/why that happened....but on to ebay. 

Now for the questions:
Control board isolation. Valerun, I see that your boards appear to be hard mounted to the heatsink/chassis. Jack, yours appear to be on plastic standoffs. I think I've just learned that it should be isolated. Is that right?

100A current sensor. I've been chasing what appear to be some issues with the output current sensor and the max current reference. 
- The 100A sensor is giving spurious readings (the charger display numbers) even right after calibration. -10A, -20A with no current flowing, the high voltage side isn't even energized. I'm using 3 conductor ribbon cable for testing right now. Could that be picking up interference and screwing it up?

Thanks


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> full galvanic isolation from the mains. which this charger isn't (like any other available on DIY conversion market). We are now working on an isolated version but that's just one of the many things we are working on and likely not going to be released for a few months.


 I believe there is a misunderstanding.
I was suggesting a separate project that hooks to the battery pack an used staged charging with the 60amp ability to charge the 12volt system. It would have the ability to set the stages, for lead-acid and for LI.

You could used you core parts for the charger and add some code.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

bjfreeman said:


> I believe there is a misunderstanding.
> I was suggesting a separate project that hooks to the battery pack an used staged charging with the 60amp ability to charge the 12volt system. It would have the ability to set the stages, for lead-acid and for LI.
> 
> You could used you core parts for the charger and add some code.


Ah, got it. Yes, of course. The only thing is, I would just use 120VAC input rectified so that the ratio of input voltage to output is not too large.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> OK, that was...interesting. I managed to kill the IGBT.
> The inductor was sitting on the heat sink and grounded out when the IGBT switched on. I'd just mounted the control board on threaded rod standoffs on the chassis, so that was the path to ground. Amazingly, the control board appears to be ok even though the ground pin on the 12v power supply gave a significant puff of smoke.
> However, now the IGBT is wide open permanently. .3 ohms C1 to E1 either way. Not quite sure how/why that happened....but on to ebay.
> 
> ...


sorry to hear. I'll take a stab at these here but we probably should try to troubleshoot over email with photos.

1. Control board (the one with Arduino on it) being grounded is perfectly fine. The driver boards should not be grounded and should be on the IGBT

2. Inductor should be isolated from heatsink / case

3. 100A sensor - seems like electrical contact issue - can you measure the voltage on the A0 pin of arduino and see if that fluctuates? Then check +5V power on sensor and see if that fluctuates. Then make sure you have a filtering capacitor installed as per schematics at pin A0 (0.1uF I think in V6).

If the above does not help, please email and we will take it from there.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

the current PFC design has just been tested at 14kW continuous (40A 345V output). 52C heatsink, 150-160C inductor temps. We will continue rating our chargers at 10kW but thought that it would be nice to know that they can go up to 14kW (and probably 15... will test more next week).


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> the current PFC design has just been tested at 14kW continuous (40A 345V output). 52C heatsink, 150-160C inductor temps. We will continue rating our chargers at 10kW but thought that it would be nice to know that they can go up to 14kW (and probably 15... will test more next week).


Hi Valerun,

Is the 14KW only at 40A 345V output?

I will have a 48KWH pack, (75 x 200AH Cells, 240V nominal) I will need to charge this from 80% DoD in under 4 hours.

I have a 240VAC 63A supply to charge from.

Could the charger output 240V 50-60A? (assuming the 14KW spec)

Cheers,

Mike


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Skooler , I mounted the control board onto a polycarbonate cover so its completly isolated. As Val said , the driver should be mounted on the igbt terminals. Are you in the uk? I might have a spare igbt lying around you can have for postage cost. I'll have a look today. You would probably be charging your pack to something like 265v for a full charge. So the output current would be 14000/265 = 52A. there would be some efficency loss so call it 50A.

In other news I took the car into Dublin last week for a meeting and plugged into a public charge point. Two things happened. First , the kWh meter on the charge point display started clocking up faster than a petrol pump and about two minutes into the charge it shutdown with a "Power limit exceeded" error message Fortunatly I had the laptop with me and reprogrammed the arduino to limit to a measly 5kw. I spoke with the power company and they said they didnt expect to see a car with a 10kw charger use the evse until 2013!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Skooler , I mounted the control board onto a polycarbonate cover so its completly isolated. As Val said , the driver should be mounted on the igbt terminals. Are you in the uk? I might have a spare igbt lying around you can have for postage cost. I'll have a look today. You would probably be charging your pack to something like 265v for a full charge. So the output current would be 14000/265 = 52A. there would be some efficency loss so call it 50A.
> 
> In other news I took the car into Dublin last week for a meeting and plugged into a public charge point. Two things happened. First , the kWh meter on the charge point display started clocking up faster than a petrol pump and about two minutes into the charge it shutdown with a "Power limit exceeded" error message Fortunatly I had the laptop with me and reprogrammed the arduino to limit to a measly 5kw. I spoke with the power company and they said they didnt expect to see a car with a 10kw charger use the evse until 2013!


way to go, Damien! ;-) I bet with your excellent liquid cooling setup you can run it at 15kW, too...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valerun,
> 
> Is the 14KW only at 40A 345V output?
> 
> ...


Hi Mike, 

That's a good pack you've got ;-)

With adequate cooling, it can. Air cooling is easier to set up. You will need large amount of airflow through inductors and input bridges. We found that 40-50W fan work well enough if placed right.

Now, with 240V nominal / 280V max output, you don't *have* to have a PFC booster for raising the voltage. However, with 14kW draw from the mains you probably need PFC to eliminate wiring hum / heating and avoid tripping your 63A breaker at 40A average.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

valerun said:


> Ah, got it. Yes, of course. The only thing is, I would just use 120VAC input rectified so that the ratio of input voltage to output is not too large.


Ok will continues with mine that powers off the battery pack, since I have another section that charges the battery pack on the go.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> That's a good pack you've got ;-)
> 
> ...




Thanks Valerun,

I havent recieved the pack yet, It will be a beast! Should be able to easily put out 1400 AMPS (7C) 

Understood with cooling, how is this best achieved? Fans on the charger? vent hot air out of the car? heat exchanger? water cooling with outside radiator?

Will the charger consistently charge at ~14KW or is this just peak?

I ask because I NEED to be able to charge the pack in 4 hours (ideally 3.5). For some background its so I can visit a customer (using around 70% of the pack), charge while i'm there and then drive back. My average appointment is around 4 hours.

Could I use two of these together to be sure? (space / cost isn't a huge issue) is it necessary?

Finally is a 63A, 240v outlet enough?

JackBauer,

I think you have confused my post with Swoozles, I dont need an IGBT (yet). Thanks for confirming the output though  

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Mike


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Sorry my mistake. Hadn't had my third cup of tea this morning!


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

I won't take you up on your offer, Jack.  Skooler might need that one yet.
Plus I'm a little far from you in Seattle.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Thanks Valerun,
> 
> I havent recieved the pack yet, It will be a beast! Should be able to easily put out 1400 AMPS (7C)


NICE. What is the controller you are planning to use? 



skooler said:


> Understood with cooling, how is this best achieved? Fans on the charger? vent hot air out of the car? heat exchanger? water cooling with outside radiator?


For now, we recommend forced air (fans) - easier to ensure every part of the charger is cooled. Inductors are pretty hard to cool with water cooling (at least we haven't figured out an easy way yet. Also, IGBT driver parts heat up quite a bit during operation so you need airflow against them, as well.



skooler said:


> Will the charger consistently charge at ~14KW or is this just peak?


It should but we have tested it to this power level on the bench at 20C ambient. Your mileage may vary. Thermal protection is built-in, so higher ambient won't blow it but may result in intermittent operation if, say, you are in 40C ambient...



skooler said:


> I ask because I NEED to be able to charge the pack in 4 hours (ideally 3.5). For some background its so I can visit a customer (using around 70% of the pack), charge while i'm there and then drive back. My average appointment is around 4 hours.


for this, 10kW would be enough, too, right? 



skooler said:


> Could I use two of these together to be sure? (space / cost isn't a huge issue) is it necessary?


Yes, this is what we do here. There are output diodes on each charger that allow paralleling.



skooler said:


> Finally is a 63A, 240v outlet enough?


Should be - this is ~15KW... The PFC charger is ~90-93% efficient at your voltage, so this input could in principle get you 13.5-14kW into the battery.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> NICE. What is the controller you are planning to use?
> 
> 
> For now, we recommend forced air (fans) - easier to ensure every part of the charger is cooled. Inductors are pretty hard to cool with water cooling (at least we haven't figured out an easy way yet. Also, IGBT driver parts heat up quite a bit during operation so you need airflow against them, as well.
> ...


Hi Valerun, I plan on using the Soliton 1, 1000Amps is more than I'll ever need, and definately more than my motor will handle! as long as I can go 80MPH+, keep up with other traffic and have a bit of fun on the way I'm happy.

I'm building more of a long range commuter vehicle than a sports car.

Forced air makes sense.

Just to make sure I understand, a higher ambient temperature will effectively mean that the charger puts out less energy? (by running intermittently?)

10KW to the battery would be enough. Although the faster it charges the better as sometimes I leave early (3 hours). I dont mind waiting the extra 30mins or whatever if I have to, obviously not having to wait is better!

I'm thinking the next step is for me to build one of these things, see how it performs and if its taking too long to charge, parellel another or look at better cooling.

Something I think would be useful is to have some kind of alert for the SoC. Something like an SMS at say 80% then 100% charged.

I once had a car alarm fob that showed what had triggered the alarm (door opened etc) perhaps something like this (a fob on keyring with a LCD with 0-100%?)

http://www.in-car-stuff.com/shop/sniper-2way-pager-alarm-system-p-339.html?osCsid=a881f234987be73befbf8f2fd43a7878

It was really useful!

Just a thought!

Cheers,

Mike


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

A quick mea culpa, my wandering current readings were due to the wrong flux. Boy, that makes for some freaky behavior when you've got a semi-conductive flux on the board!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Just to make sure I understand, a higher ambient temperature will effectively mean that the charger puts out less energy? (by running intermittently?)


yes but it would have to be above 30-35C ambient. Below that 10kW is continuous. A bigger consideration as we found out is the placement of the unit in the car. If placed in a really confined area without easy access to outside air, it heats up the area rather fast...



skooler said:


> Something I think would be useful is to have some kind of alert for the SoC. Something like an SMS at say 80% then 100% charged.


Yes. Tough to do though for a standalone unit. In our conversions, we will be mating the charger to our EV Dash system that uses Android tablet as display / GPS / internet access unit. Then we could do periodic status push to some relay website where you would be able to access.

But that's a couple of months away...

V


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## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

valerun said:


> A bigger consideration as we found out is the placement of the unit in the car. If placed in a really confined area without easy access to outside air, it heats up the area rather fast...


The Honda Insight, mine is a 2000 model, has intakes inside the cabin and exhausts outside the car, underneath, IIRC. Maybe putting an exhaust port to the outside forcing air to enter the cabin through somewhere else in the car would fix the issue.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

GizmoEV said:


> The Honda Insight, mine is a 2000 model, has intakes inside the cabin and exhausts outside the car, underneath, IIRC. Maybe putting an exhaust port to the outside forcing air to enter the cabin through somewhere else in the car would fix the issue.


this is a good idea. what is the easiest way to do that you think? would need a blower with a hose on the inlet, right?

an alternative, of course, is liquid cooling. I wonder how many of our prospects would like that option. If people are interested, we can do a bulk buy of the compatible cold plates.


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## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey Val,
I've tried to get a hold of some one on your website to order a kit, but no one has responed. Can you PM me. I want to start building this charger right away. Will the $275 kit come with every thing I need but the enclosure?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Camaro said:


> Hey Val,
> I've tried to get a hold of some one on your website to order a kit, but no one has responed. Can you PM me. I want to start building this charger right away.


Hi Camaro, PM sent. So we can fix the issue with the site, could you please let me know how you tried to connect?


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## Camaro (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks Val, I can't wait to get started on it!


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Val.... could you update us on your progress making the charger build video? I for one am waiting to build my two chargers until I can experience the visual evidence of your efforts. For which I am grateful.... 2010Ranger


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Received my new control board and components kit today. Ordered the liquid cooled heatsink :
http://ie.farnell.com/aavid-thermalloy/416601u00000g/liquid-cold-plate/dp/1773329

The specs for version two are 3 phase 400v input and 22kw max power. Gonna have to order more of those fan oven elements


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm about to start building the control board. Does anyone want one of my ultra boring videos on the subject?


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## esoneson (Sep 1, 2008)

Yup....got my popcorn and Diet Coke ready......

Eric



jackbauer said:


> I'm about to start building the control board. Does anyone want one of my ultra boring videos on the subject?


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## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

jackbauer said:


> I'm about to start building the control board. Does anyone want one of my ultra boring videos on the subject?


of course, of course
Please don't hesitate to make those videos for the "masses"


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

+1, Your videos are Great!!!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I'm about to start building the control board. Does anyone want one of my ultra boring videos on the subject?


Damien, conquering the charging challenge, one kW at a time! ;-)

22kW - nice! Videos - awesome!

BTW, we are almost done with our video/photo set. 20% remaining (mostly on box assembly).


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Jack; Boring? Hardly.... Insightful? Yes.... let the show begin.

Val, thanks for the update on the video/photo set.... 

2010Ranger


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

All - a number of you asked for updated PFC schematics. Happy to announce that it has been updated on our main PFC page at http://emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/EMW_PFC.pl and also attached here below. 

Note that we spec this now at up to 15kW. We offer this as kit, fully assembled standalone stage or as part of full PFC charger kit / unit.


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## toledi (Mar 7, 2011)

Hey !

I just bought:
Full PCB set for a 10kW / 60A EMW open-source EV charger

Also I`m gathering the rest of the parts needed to complete this Charger.
Keep up the good work.
Will post pictures.

Greetings from Slovenia


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

The heatsink arrived


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> The heatsink arrived


wow it does look pretty nice! 

On our side, we are placing an order for 25 units of http://www.rell.com/Pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=175029 (6"x5.5" 4-pass double-sided cold plate, 0.038 C/W at 1 GPM). Next version of the kit / charger will be mountable to this plate (or good old finned heatsink). We at EMW will also use the other side of the plate for our controller IGBT (one of those big square 1400A 1200V units). 

Will post some pics once cold plates arrive.

V


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

They have different sizes http://www.rell.com/Pages/Search-Results.aspx?productCategory=10190

My 2 c.
-Y.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

1-ev.com said:


> They have different sizes http://www.rell.com/Pages/Search-Results.aspx?productCategory=10190
> 
> My 2 c.
> -Y.


right. the 180-20-12C is the next size up and 2x the heat removal capacity. A bit too big for our initial prototyping but maybe we will have to migrate there after testing (controller losses might be a bit high for this little device).


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

For day-to-day use is the charger left connected to the battery pack? Or is there a need to have a contactor break connection when not actively charging?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> For day-to-day use is the charger left connected to the battery pack? Or is there a need to have a contactor break connection when not actively charging?


should be ok to keep connected at all times.


----------



## kovgab3 (Sep 23, 2011)

swoozle said:


> For day-to-day use is the charger left connected to the battery pack? Or is there a need to have a contactor break connection when not actively charging?


Read this article:
http://www.auto88.cz/_info/Doc/GWL-Power-Cell-Damage-OverCharge.pdf

They have sold a good amount of TS cells, and they have their own BMS (which has quite "luxury" functions, but is expensive also. http://ev-power.eu/?p=p_47&sName=rt-bms-3.2v It can balance at 10A(!))

I think, that if you follow their advices, and set up your charger keeping them in mind, then you can leave it on the pack.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

schematics for the non-PFC charger has been updated, as well. http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7, as usual.

let us know if we are still missing something.

Those videos & photos ARE coming!

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> schematics for the non-PFC charger has been updated, as well.


Yay, more idiot-proof for us idiots! 

One thing I found, umm, strange(?), but not something that belongs in your schematic, is that the 100A hall sensor datasheet shows an arrow going through the centerline from lead to non-lead side. 
I assumed that would be the "positive" current flow direction.

Nah ah.

Current has to flow from non-lead to lead side to register as positive by the controller software.

Maybe that's electron flow direction?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Maybe that's electron flow direction?


LOL ;-)

Yes, that particular 'feature' of the datasheet got us a couple of times, as well...

we have a couple of relevant photos on our build photo pages (linked from the usual http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7) - see http://www.emotorwerks.com/images/EMWsite/charger_V13/fullPFC/17.html, for example. Admittedly, they are a bit buried and we will try to do better job of highlighting the key gotchas in the future.

PS. Check out our newest EV Dashboard release at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/new-flavors-ev-display-63265p11.html and http://www.emotorwerks.com/emw3/product/ev-dashboard-by-emw-basic-edition/ (sorry for the plug ;-). So exciting!

V


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

valerun said:


> All - a number of you asked for updated PFC schematics. Happy to announce that it has been updated on our main PFC page at http://emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/EMW_PFC.pl and also attached here below.


There seem to be a few errors on that circuit. The lower IGBT (which is drawn as a MOSFET) has its gate and emitter shorted, which should not be the case. (The upper IGBT also has its gate and emitter shorted, but that one looks to be valid, i.e. only the diode of the upper IGBT is used).

Finally, L1's value is given in microfarads; presumably, this should be microhenries.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Coulomb said:


> There seem to be a few errors on that circuit. The lower IGBT (which is drawn as a MOSFET) has its gate and emitter shorted, which should not be the case. (The upper IGBT also has its gate and emitter shorted, but that one looks to be valid, i.e. only the diode of the upper IGBT is used).
> 
> Finally, L1's value is given in microfarads; presumably, this should be microhenries.


you are absolutely right. thanks for noticing (copy-paste error). updated now.

V


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Yow, that inrush resistor gets warm. Over 200F at only 9A.
Prompted me to take a look at the datasheet: at 100% current, the body temp is spec'd at 200. 

Celsius.

Holy crabcakes. 

A manual pre-charge setup works nicely and I see that you put out some code to make it automagic. Jackbauer, did you end up using this?

Is there an advantage to the inrush other than cost and simplicity? I'm willing to take that hit to keep the heat source out.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Holy crabcakes.
> 
> A manual pre-charge setup works nicely and I see that you put out some code to make it automagic. Jackbauer, did you end up using this?
> 
> Is there an advantage to the inrush other than cost and simplicity? I'm willing to take that hit to keep the heat source out.


yes, they do get warm. you can wire a precharge relay or just a toggle switch (rated for 40A) that you would bypass by ~100R resistor and would turn on after 5-10 sec after you connect the main AC input.


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Started some layout work on the 3 phase version today. Just getting a feel for size etc. Am aiming to use 4 of the ex ups 1mH inductors. 2s2p for 1mH but good current handling. currently running a 2p setup in the car on single phase with good results but I want to be able to pump out 100A upto 250v so cross section will be an issue. The main bus caps are 10,000uf 450v and will be wired in series to deal with the approx 650v dc bus derived from rectified 400v 3 phase. The main challenge will be the thermal interface between the inductors and the cold plate. Initial thoughts are to build an aluminium box to contain the thermal epoxy but i'll see what works. Not sure if the igbt (1200v 150A) will be up to the task so if anyone cares to donate a 300A 1200v module 

swoozle , I actually ended up with 4 ntc inrush suppressors. 2 paralleled on the live and neutral connections to the rectifier. Works well as long as you keep them in free air away from any temp sensitive parts.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Started some layout work on the 3 phase version today. Just getting a feel for size etc. Am aiming to use 4 of the ex ups 1mH inductors. 2s2p for 1mH but good current handling. currently running a 2p setup in the car on single phase with good results but I want to be able to pump out 100A upto 250v so cross section will be an issue. The main bus caps are 10,000uf 450v and will be wired in series to deal with the approx 650v dc bus derived from rectified 400v 3 phase. The main challenge will be the thermal interface between the inductors and the cold plate. Initial thoughts are to build an aluminium box to contain the thermal epoxy but i'll see what works. Not sure if the igbt (1200v 150A) will be up to the task so if anyone cares to donate a 300A 1200v module
> 
> swoozle , I actually ended up with 4 ntc inrush suppressors. 2 paralleled on the live and neutral connections to the rectifier. Works well as long as you keep them in free air away from any temp sensitive parts.


That is a monster, jb! ;-)) 

Couple of suggestions:
1. Consider paralleling one more IGBT. 
2. You do not need 1mH at this current levels at all. 300uH works fine even at just 30-40A output level. Higher current = lower possible inductance. So I would just use 2-3p of your 1mH inductors.
3. Don't see a film cap on the DC input. You would need 30-50uF at this power level - ideally right between your bridge and IGBTs
4. What is your output cap? Consider that you need 650V rating on the output, as well - regardless of your actual battery voltage. 

Looking forward to your great reports and videos.

V


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## caglassmith (Apr 18, 2011)

jackbauer,

A couple questions. How fast do you anticipate this 3-phase monster will recharge your pack? Have you measured the PF/phase angle of your existing charger while it is charging your pack? 

Your videos have been VERY helpful. I had considered water cooling, but was a bit unsure if it would work -- until now. Great way to transport heat from the source to the outside.

CAGlassmith...


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks for the pointers Val. I'm still collecting parts. Do have some nice 25uf 1000v arcotronics mkp caps for the igbt. Also may be able to "borrow" a 1200v 600amp igbt from work complete with vla502 driver! 

caglassmith , I don't really expect to fit the 3 phase charger in my car. It would be too powerful. I'm aiming it at my friend's 328i conversion which is going to be a hv system around 300v and 30ish kwh. I have measured a pf of about 0.98 on the single phase charger at full power into my pack. Pf for the car is about .94 mostly due to the chennic charger that charges the 12v system battery. Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad the videos were helpful. As i get building the 3 phase unit i'll make some more.


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

valerun said:


> Damien, conquering the charging challenge, one kW at a time! ;-)
> 
> 22kW - nice! Videos - awesome!
> 
> BTW, we are almost done with our video/photo set. 20% remaining (mostly on box assembly).


Hi Val... how are you and your team coming along with the video/photo set? 

2010


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> Hi Val... how are you and your team coming along with the video/photo set?
> 
> 2010


Hi All - ok finally we were able to get this thing together. See our first charger assembly video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWPNYsj66ek

Let me know what you think.

We will add some photos soon.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Cool - Cool - Cool


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi All - ok finally we were able to get this thing together. See our first charger assembly video at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWPNYsj66ek
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> ...


 Nice. Very good of you to put in this time/effort! What are the dimensions of the box?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Nice. Very good of you to put in this time/effort! What are the dimensions of the box?


thx! We use 10x8x7" (check the mention on video in the end) - digikey ID HM310-ND. For new builders, we recommend 10x10x8 (digikey ID HM312-ND) as things get pretty tight in a 10x8x7.

for the new version we are releasing soon, we will use / recommend same for non-PFC version. For PFC, we will be using 10x10x8 (digikey ID HM312-ND).

V


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## caglassmith (Apr 18, 2011)

Valery,

Very good video. Having just received my parts kit a week ago, this video clears up a lot of nagging questions. 

But one question remains regarding the DC power supply. My kit contained a 5" square PC board that allows me to mount two bridge rectifiers and 16 capacitors -- configured as two separate DC supplies. Each supply uses a 50A bridge rectifier connected to two series groups of four parallel capacitors. (Will attempt to attach a picture to this message.)

I assume that I should connect the two separate supplies in parallel -- AC in to AC in, Out+ to Out+, and Out - to Out-. Is this correct, or am I missing something?

Roger...


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Is this the charger we need for cross country travel? A trailer mounted generator around 10kw feeding AC power to this charger which maintains the charge of the battery pack.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Is this the charger we need for cross country travel? A trailer mounted generator around 10kw feeding AC power to this charger which maintains the charge of the battery pack.


yes it can be ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

caglassmith said:


> Valery,
> 
> Very good video. Having just received my parts kit a week ago, this video clears up a lot of nagging questions.
> 
> ...



Hi Roger - almost right. These are voltage doubler boards. What you would do is the following:
1. Connect Out+ to Out+, Out- to Out-
2. Connect AC terminal that's off-center to same AC terminal on another board (call it AC0 terminal)
3. Center AC terminals are NOT connected together - they are your input 220VAC terminals. (call these AC1 and AC2 terminals)
4. To get voltage doubling for 110VAC input, you would need to do either of the following:
(a) wire a relay between AC0 and AC1. this relay should close ONLY when the input voltage sensor sees 110VAC. We will be posting our latest firmware with this shortly
(b) bring out all AC0/1/2 terminals to your outside AC connector. Then you would connect 220VAC to AC1/2, and 110VAC to AC0/1. This is the safest mechanism but requires separate wiring for 110VAC and 220VAC.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

firmware 7.1 added to site (http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7). No changes to hardware required. See site for details.

V


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

What inductor are you using? That's my final piece to the charger puzzle, short of building my own.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

TheSGC said:


> What inductor are you using? That's my final piece to the charger puzzle, short of building my own.


We wind our own. Micrometals core E315-34, 50 turns of 5 strands 16AWG.


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## adamj12b (May 4, 2009)

valerun said:


> We wind our own. Micrometals core E315-34, 50 turns of 5 strands 16AWG.


Is this a custom core or did you mean to say E305-34?

Micrometals does not list a 315 with that core material. 

-Adam


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adamj12b said:


> Is this a custom core or did you mean to say E305-34?
> 
> Micrometals does not list a 315 with that core material.
> 
> -Adam


Ah, you're right, Adam - it's E305-34.

According to MIcroMetals inductor design software, it saturates to 51% of original permeability at 50A bias.

Anywhere from 40 turns to 50 turns should do. The interesting thing is that if you do more or less than 50-60 turns, your total inductor dissipation at 50A output goes up - if you do fewer turns, core losses rise fast, if you do more, wire losses rise fast. 

I just thought that given the number of board-only kits we sold, we should probably add an inductor product to our site?

We are working with a CA supplier now to custom-wind an edge-wire inductor for us. Stay tuned.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> 4. To get voltage doubling for 110VAC input, you would need to do either of the following:
> (a) wire a relay between AC0 and AC1. this relay should close ONLY when the input voltage sensor sees 110VAC. We will be posting our latest firmware with this shortly
> Thanks,
> Valery.


Do you have a new version of the schematic showing how to implement this?


Thanks


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

Valerun,
I'm considering your charger for my 45 cell, 144V 100Ah LiFePo4 Calib pack and would like to know the efficiency of the charger. I have a 30A 230V circuit available to feed the charger and with a 162V charge voltage, what type of output current could I expect from the charger under these conditions?
Joe


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

JoeG said:


> Valerun,
> I'm considering your charger for my 45 cell, 144V 100Ah LiFePo4 Calib pack and would like to know the efficiency of the charger. I have a 30A 230V circuit available to feed the charger and with a 162V charge voltage, what type of output current could I expect from the charger under these conditions?
> Joe


Thanks Joe - you should expect to max out your input at ~7kW with the PFC version of the charger. Our measurements suggest 91-92% efficiency at max power so you would see 6.4kW or ~40A output into your pack.

If you use non-PFC version, you will see somewhat higher efficiency (~95%) but you won't be able to draw full 7kW from your source as the breakers will likely trip around 5.5kW or so.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I recently had a chance to look at the circuit diagram for a 50kw DC fast charger. Its power converter stage was basically a half bridge as per the picture. Kinda got me to thinking that the existing control board could probably drive this sort of a power stage with the appropriate driver.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> I recently had a chance to look at the circuit diagram for a 50kw DC fast charger. Its power converter stage was basically a half bridge as per the picture. Kinda got me to thinking that the existing control board could probably drive this sort of a power stage with the appropriate driver.


Actually, even the driver board that we use in our kits / chargers is adequate - it can easily drive a 1200V 400A devices. A power stage built out of these would be capable of 30-60kW depending on output voltage.

The biggest problem is actually a transformer design in this case (if you want to make it isolated). I would love to see the specs / pics of that 50kW transformer! What frequency does it operate at?

V


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Not sure of the freq. I only had a few minutes with the schematic. That said I would say its something arounf 12-14khz as I could just barely hear it when in operation. So in that half bridge design I guess its just a case of inverting the drive signal for the high side? Would it need some deadtime in there due to the turn off tail?

Transformer was not very big at all , about 3/4 the size of a shoebox.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

Is the isolation a requirement? since the AC-version isn't...or is it to be able to get a higher output voltage?

Is there a standard dc-voltage used? (if so what is it?)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Not sure of the freq. I only had a few minutes with the schematic. That said I would say its something arounf 12-14khz as I could just barely hear it when in operation. So in that half bridge design I guess its just a case of inverting the drive signal for the high side? Would it need some deadtime in there due to the turn off tail?
> 
> Transformer was not very big at all , about 3/4 the size of a shoebox.


Yes, you need some deadtime but you can get Arduino to do that for you - just use another PWM pin (from the same internal timer) and set to phase correct PWM mode so that centers of peaks are in the same place. Then set the Duty_2=1-Duty_1 and invert Duty_2 output. Limit Duty_1 to 47-48%. This will get you a minimum 4-6% deadtime.

I'd love to learn more about transformer design - core type / material, wire gauges / strands / turns, etc ;-)

If 50kW half-bridge transformer is so small, maybe we can make a 10-15kW flyback transformer? Then one can have an isolated PFC charger with just a single switch...


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi!

I started my charger build this week. The arduino programming cost a lot of time, turned out I had connected the programming cable in the wrong way. Must electrically line up with the 6 pins at the front of the Arduino board.

Anyway, the software is running now but I'm having display troubles:











Seems like the screen isn't correctly updated. At the top you see how two description texts get mangled, same thing happens when changing numbers. If you change from 0 to 1 the 0 isn't cleared before the 1 is written. I didn't see that behaviour on the demo video, whats wrong?

Thanks for any help
Johannes


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Hi!
> 
> I started my charger build this week.


Great! 

1. How long is your display cable?
2. Do you have garbage on the screen or just overrides with new but meaningful content?

V


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> Great!
> 
> 1. How long is your display cable?
> 2. Do you have garbage on the screen or just overrides with new but meaningful content?
> ...


1. The cable is about 1m (the one you supplied). I connected the shield to GND
2. Its meaningful content as far as readable

Whenever theres a complete screen refresh (displ->clear()) everything looks fine, but after some values change the problem occurs.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> 1. The cable is about 1m (the one you supplied). I connected the shield to GND
> 2. Its meaningful content as far as readable
> 
> Whenever theres a complete screen refresh (displ->clear()) everything looks fine, but after some values change the problem occurs.


hm. have you changed the code at all?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

You mean a transformer like this one ?  Not from a 50kw fast charger but something very similar using the same half bridge topology. I have a whole bunch of these so if you want one just let me know.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> hm. have you changed the code at all?


No, just downloaded version 7.1, compiled, uploaded.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Fixed it. In the display library you wait 500ms for an acknowledge byte. Apparent at startup that is too little. I changed this to 2.5s (maybe overkill, but since I connected the TX line it doesn't hurt).

Generally, in the source code there are a lot of magic numbers and unclear naming (no pun intended).
Stuff like 

if(out1 < -10 || out2 < -10) 

would be easier to understand if it read

if(outputCur < OUTCUR_PLAUSIBILTY_THRESH || ampHoursOut < OUTAMPH_PLAUSIBILTY_THRESH)

Or something similar. I'm not even sure if out2 is ampHoursOut.

Regards
Johannes


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Fixed it. In the display library you wait 500ms for an acknowledge byte. Apparent at startup that is too little. I changed this to 2.5s (maybe overkill, but since I connected the TX line it doesn't hurt).
> 
> Generally, in the source code there are a lot of magic numbers and unclear naming (no pun intended).
> Stuff like
> ...


glad it worked out. 

out1 and out2 change their meaning depending on whether you are in CC or CV model. They are mapped into output voltage and current. See details in the code. Specifically, on line 612 in V7.1, you can find the following comment:

// here, out1 is what is being controlled (kept constant), out2 is a termination criterion

In the next 13 lines, the assignments are clearly spelled out:
---
outC=readC(); // every cycle
outC_avg=(outC_avg*(nSamplesStopVar-1)+outC)/nSamplesStopVar; // moving average
outV=readV();
outV_avg=(outV_avg*(nSamplesStopVar-1)+outV)/nSamplesStopVar; // moving average
if(cycleType==1) {
// CC - constant current, stop by max voltage
out1=outC_avg; // controlled variable
out2=outV_avg; // stop variable
} else if(cycleType==2) {
// CV - constant voltage, stop by min current
out1=outV_avg; // controlled variable
out2=outC_avg; // stop variable
}
----------


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

boekel said:


> Is the isolation a requirement? since the AC-version isn't...or is it to be able to get a higher output voltage?
> 
> Is there a standard dc-voltage used? (if so what is it?)


not a requirement for this application. But since we are also going after OEM market, it will become a requirement for us soon.

EDIT: not sure what you mean by standard DC voltage. In the PFC version, the input AC is boosted to ~380V before being processed by the main power stage down to whatever your battery is (with progressive loss of precision below ~50-70VDC).


----------



## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

valerun said:


> not a requirement for this application. But since we are also going after OEM market, it will become a requirement for us soon.
> 
> EDIT: not sure what you mean by standard DC voltage. In the PFC version, the input AC is boosted to ~380V before being processed by the main power stage down to whatever your battery is (with progressive loss of precision below ~50-70VDC).


I heard there are charging points that provide DC to the car, is that a standard voltage that you know of?


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> glad it worked out.
> 
> out1 and out2 change their meaning depending on whether you are in CC or CV model. They are mapped into output voltage and current. See details in the code. Specifically, on line 612 in V7.1, you can find the following comment:


Ok, lets not get hung up on it.

Next question, heres what the switching looks like









Scope is set to 5V/div and 2µs/div. So, like mentioned elsewhere the gate voltage is between -15 and 13V. The Miller plateau his rather long at around 1µs. The fall time from 13 to 0V Vge works out to 800ns. 
The DCDC converter as well as the opto and gate resistor get rather warm and the whole gate drive circuit consumes 350mA.
Is that still ok or should I reduce switching frequency/replace the IGBT by a smaller one? I'm using a 1200V/400A module right now.

EDIT: this is not gonna work. I just ran 5A through it for a few minutes and the IGBT gets really hot. What to do?
EDIT2: and yet another mistake on my side: I had selected the wrong board (8MHz version) in arduino. Thus all the ms->cycles calculations were off: delay times and especially PWM period. Thus, the PWM frequency was 40 kHz! Did another run with 20 kHz and its only a matter of seconds for the IGBT to heat up. Now trying 10 kHz. But I think the problem is that the IGBT spends around 2µs per cycle in the linear region.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I ordered some samples of the inductor, and I just salvaged 500 uH inductor from my old K&W BC-20 charger which is good up to 20 AMPs. 

I'm getting a little creative with my charger, I am going to use another rectifier for the output diode and since the 40mA hall effects are out of stock I am designing another voltage sensing circuit.

I don't have anything close to a 10 KW power source, so I'm aiming for a 1.5 KW 120v mode and a 4-6 KW 240 volt mode.


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi All - ok finally we were able to get this thing together. See our first charger assembly video at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWPNYsj66ek
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> ...


Hi Val; I thank you and the team for the video. It's much appreciated. Could you put up some pictures of the boards? Some dead-on... some at various angles. 

I see you're winding inductors, are you selling them separate from the kits? If so I need two. If not where did you purchase the cores? I don't see anywhere on Micrometals site to purchase them.

Again thanks for the video it's great..... 2010


----------



## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

Nice to see a 400v 3 phase charger on the way. Don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but in Europe (at least here in Sweden) it is customary to use 400V 3phase for anything above 3kW (10/16A 230V single phase being the most common). 

In fact finding a single phase outlet at 230V and 10kW would be a quite difficult, the only place you would find it would be in a 64A 400V 3 phase outlet (extracting one phase plus neutral would give 230V 64A). 

400V 16A 3 phase is however very common, finding or installing one would rarely be a problem. So a 3 phase higher voltage version would be great for me and many others.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

The Netherlands: most houses have 230V - 3x25A / 30A / 35A, although not every house uses all 3 phases (I use 1x25A at home)

I don't know how high you can get in most places without new cables.


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

boekel said:


> The Netherlands: most houses have 230V - 3x25A / 30A / 35A, although not every house uses all 3 phases (I use 1x25A at home)
> 
> I don't know how high you can get in most places without new cables.


It's about the same here, but i guess you still don't usually have single phase outlets installed at above 16A? Installing a single phase outlet connected to the main fuses (25/30/35A) would be fairly simple of course, but it still wouldn't add up to 10kW. Maybe it is affordable to upgrade to 45A, but either way I'm sure you agree a 3 phase charger would be best.


----------



## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

crap said:


> It's about the same here, but i guess you still don't usually have single phase outlets installed at above 16A?


For electrical cooking with a one phase supply it normal to have 2x 16A coupled, so effectively 32A (about 7kW)


> either way I'm sure you agree a 3 phase charger would be best.


I agree.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Has anyone does a virtual build of this charger or similar using a circuit simulator? 

I don't know if there are even any out there that can handle something this complex. but if so it'd be a great way to try out different substitutions or modifications before doing a real test.


----------



## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

boekel said:


> For electrical cooking with a one phase supply it normal to have 2x 16A coupled, so effectively 32A (about 7kW)


I suppose 7kW would also be a useful quick charge, but i assume the stove uses two separate phases? If so this would still not be available with a single phase charger. If not, the main fuses would have to be above 32A...

By the way, will the 3 phase charger also be available with PFC?


----------



## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm not intending to run pfc on the 3 phase charger. Its much less of a problem than single phase in any event. Got the control panel all wired up last weekend , gotta sort out the power stage next. Kinda delayed by a pesky E39 that showed up unannounced


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Ok, lets not get hung up on it.
> 
> Next question, heres what the switching looks like
> 
> ...


what kind of heatsink are you using? Using the sink we supply, with a 600V 200A half bridge, we normally can run at 1.5kW output without any fans for 10-20 minutes before heatsink gets to 55C...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Has anyone does a virtual build of this charger or similar using a circuit simulator?
> 
> I don't know if there are even any out there that can handle something this complex. but if so it'd be a great way to try out different substitutions or modifications before doing a real test.


we have done limited simulations in Tina. What are you trying to try out?


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Just considering scrounging components and wanting to see the effects of using less than ideal parts.


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> what kind of heatsink are you using? Using the sink we supply, with a 600V 200A half bridge, we normally can run at 1.5kW output without any fans for 10-20 minutes before heatsink gets to 55C...


The one you supplied. But forget about it. I didn't have the caps connected. Now that it's all wired up including the inductor, temp is 33C after [email protected] (still testing with my lab power supply, too scared of AC mains as of yet).
Two more questions came up:
1. Mains voltage is 65V but is displayed as 412V Any ideas?
2. The hardware overcurrent protection kicks in at 5A. Adding a 100µ cap to the existing 10µ between Pin3 and GND "solved" the problem. Whats wrong there?

Apart from that I'm pretty delighted. The kit didn't miss any parts so far (haven't started on the PFC stage).

Heres a picture of progress 3 days ago:









Note the nice snubber cap that came with the IGBT brick.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> The one you supplied. But forget about it. I didn't have the caps connected. Now that it's all wired up including the inductor, temp is 33C after [email protected] (still testing with my lab power supply, too scared of AC mains as of yet).
> Two more questions came up:
> 1. Mains voltage is 65V but is displayed as 412V Any ideas?
> 2. The hardware overcurrent protection kicks in at 5A. Adding a 100µ cap to the existing 10µ between Pin3 and GND "solved" the problem. Whats wrong there?
> ...


Glad it's working out! 

re max current: pin3 is a button input and should not have any effect. The hardware protection is set by the micro to 1.3*target output current. So if you set your output current to 5A, the protection will kick in at 6.5A...

re mains voltage being off - can you check that your sensing resistor is really 82k for mains sensing?

Thanks!
Valery.


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> Glad it's working out!
> 
> re max current: pin3 is a button input and should not have any effect. The hardware protection is set by the micro to 1.3*target output current. So if you set your output current to 5A, the protection will kick in at 6.5A...


Strange this. I set target current to 8A and once it hit 5A it started making terrible noises which I pinned on over current protection. Adding that capacitor helped. Why? Anything wrong with keeping it?



valerun said:


> re mains voltage being off - can you check that your sensing resistor is really 82k for mains sensing?


I'm not... Two resistors came in a TO220 package, 10k and 5k. Using 5k for output voltage sensing (works fine) and 10k for input. Will replace it by 82k which should solve the problem. Whats the 10k resistor for?

Thanks a lot!
Johannes


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Strange this. I set target current to 8A and once it hit 5A it started making terrible noises which I pinned on over current protection. Adding that capacitor helped. Why? Anything wrong with keeping it?
> 
> 
> I'm not... Two resistors came in a TO220 package, 10k and 5k. Using 5k for output voltage sensing (works fine) and 10k for input. Will replace it by 82k which should solve the problem. Whats the 10k resistor for?
> ...


Use 10k resistor as output voltage sensing resistor for output voltage beyond ~280V.

Is your input DC or AC now? If AC, do you have input caps?


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> Use 10k resistor as output voltage sensing resistor for output voltage beyond ~280V.
> 
> Is your input DC or AC now? If AC, do you have input caps?


I get it. Input is DC. I have two 6800µ in series.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> I get it. Input is DC. I have two 6800µ in series.


so where did you put the 100uF cap. pin3 should not have affected anything...


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> so where did you put the 100uF cap. pin3 should not have affected anything...


But thats where it is. In parallel to the 10µ cap.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> But thats where it is. In parallel to the 10µ cap.


ah, pin3 of the LM211, not arduino, right? ok. yes, you can use 100uF there. What likely happening is that the output current is so low for the combination of inductance and frequency that ripple current is high enough for the peak current to go above the max current threshold even if the average current is much lower. Are you running 20khz? and you are using the supplied inductor? finally, what is your load? battery or resistive?


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> ah, pin3 of the LM211, not arduino, right? ok. yes, you can use 100uF there. What likely happening is that the output current is so low for the combination of inductance and frequency that ripple current is high enough for the peak current to go above the max current threshold even if the average current is much lower. Are you running 20khz? and you are using the supplied inductor? finally, what is your load? battery or resistive?


Yeah exactly. I'm running 16kHz with the supplied inductor and 12 40Ah TS cells.

I will be charging a 500V pack from a 230V/16A outlet, so these low currents are actually quite likely. Different story on 3-phase outputs.

Just tried out that inrush resistor thingy. It measures 1 Ohm when cold so I was quite sceptical whether it will limit anything. I connected in in series with the mains, is that correct? When plugging in the lights went out... So I'm precharging with a kettle now.

Also the PN2222 at the PWM output somehow went bad. The amplitude of the PWM signal was just 3-4V which did not reliably switch on the opto and generated messy PWM on the output. I replaced it with one of my trusty BC549Cs. Now works as expected and I'm charging another 12 pack directly from the mains @15A! I can still hear the 16 kHz beep, didn't expect my ears to be holding up that well.


----------



## EV Dawg (Oct 30, 2011)

Hi,

Where can I find a replacement voltage sensing hall sensor supplied with the kit as well as the 10R or similar gate resistor?

Turns out I had the 10.0K with the 10RJ swapped, and as soon as I plugged in the battery (over 110v) to do the voltage calibration, the 10RJ instantly melted and took the hall sensor with it.

Thanks in advance


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

EV Dawg said:


> Hi,
> 
> Where can I find a replacement voltage sensing hall sensor supplied with the kit as well as the 10R or similar gate resistor?
> 
> ...


Hi - Sorry to hear. Digikey is best in US. (we are out of stock on those now)


----------



## Spyder.ev (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi valery,
Question your new 10kw charger has it got control for J1772 ?
Am looking to buy yours looks great but want control incorporated. I know jack did a mod but was wondering if you have. Also your fully built non pfc charger does it come with fan ?
Thanks
Nick


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Spyder.ev said:


> Hi valery,
> Question your new 10kw charger has it got control for J1772 ?
> Am looking to buy yours looks great but want control incorporated. I know jack did a mod but was wondering if you have. Also your fully built non pfc charger does it come with fan ?
> Thanks
> Nick


Hi Nick - yes, the charger now has J1772 logic. Fully built chargers come ready to run - with fans and all. Non-PFC version will need 12V input from your car and will require separate 110VAC and 220VAC inputs. PFC version has internal 12V supply and has a single 85-260VAC input.

V


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Nick - yes, the charger now has J1772 logic. Fully built chargers come ready to run - with fans and all. Non-PFC version will need 12V input from your car and will require separate 110VAC and 220VAC inputs. PFC version has internal 12V supply and has a single 85-260VAC input.
> 
> V


 Look like the pfc version is about twice the size as the non-pfc. Is that correct valerun?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Look like the pfc version is about twice the size as the non-pfc. Is that correct valerun?


not anymore - we are building them all in the same size now - 11x12x8 box. 

Two main reasons:
1. Easier logistics - helps keep prices down
2. Easier to fix things if something goes wrong
3. Allows to use our latest PCB-based design 

So the remaining differences are:
1. 12V supply from a car is needed for non-PFC
2. Separate 110 / 220VAC inputs needed for non-PFC
3. Price is slightly higher for the PFC version (~15%)

V


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

Valery,

Where can I find the BOM and schematics for the latest version that you shipped to me this past week? I looked all over your website and all I could find is the earlier versions.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

StanSimmons said:


> Valery,
> 
> Where can I find the BOM and schematics for the latest version that you shipped to me this past week? I looked all over your website and all I could find is the earlier versions.


Hi Stan - just sent you an email. We are not distributing them widely yet - this is why you can't find them on site.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

Valery,

I have one of the first kits from mid last year. I am struggling to make it work. The input voltage sensor that has the 82k resistor is measuring 1776v and some times 600 volts I am just testing with 120vac. there is no output volatage. The lcd works and working as if it was charging but no voltage out.
any ideas what could be the cause?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

richardriver said:


> Valery,
> 
> I have one of the first kits from mid last year. I am struggling to make it work. The input voltage sensor that has the 82k resistor is measuring 1776v and some times 600 volts I am just testing with 120vac. there is no output volatage. The lcd works and working as if it was charging but no voltage out.
> any ideas what could be the cause?


Hi - sounds like an intermittent connection between positive HV input and hall sensor. Or between hall and analog pin. Can you check voltage on hall's output, and Arduino A5 pin? Also, please measure 82k resistor and confirm it's really 82k. Finally, measure voltage on that 82k resistor.

this should help troubleshoot.

thanks,
valery.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

I have developed a Canbus card that you can connect to your arduino. it is isolated from the arduino and is powered by 12v souirce used to power the canus
I have posted the dGN you can use
you can use the charger ones for sure and maybe a few of the others.


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## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

Thanks Valery, found out that I never got pin 5 and 4 connected to the board. So I connected it and the voltage now is showing 66v (on lcd). On the hall sensor measured 2.51v as A5 pin. The mains voltage is 176.4v on the 82k resistor is 176.2v on the sensor is 160 mv. No voltage is coming out of the charger. Everything else seems to be working.
duty cycle stays 0% freq 20khz out 0A , 0V temp 22c AH in 0AH. Not sure what I am missing should I put some sort of load?


----------



## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

richardriver said:


> Thanks Valery, found out that I never got pin 5 and 4 connected to the board. So I connected it and the voltage now is showing 66v (on lcd). On the hall sensor measured 2.51v as A5 pin. The mains voltage is 176.4v on the 82k resistor is 176.2v on the sensor is 160 mv. No voltage is coming out of the charger. Everything else seems to be working.
> duty cycle stays 0% freq 20khz out 0A , 0V temp 22c AH in 0AH. Not sure what I am missing should I put some sort of load?


I know that other chargers won't do anything without a load.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

somanywelps said:


> I know that other chargers won't do anything without a load.


It starts in constant current mode. If there's no load, it should ramp to 100% duty cycle in an attempt to reach the target current. At least that's what it did for me.


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## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

When I connect a 36v battery, it does read the battery voltage however, it never goes into charge mode. As soon as I remove the battery it start showing the charging screen showing DT% and freq (out 0v ,0A) but nothing happens. It seems that the main switch (igbt) is not being driven. When I connect the battery again after a few secs, it goes back to the parameters change screen and still shows 66v on mains in.


----------



## zafh15a (Mar 13, 2012)

Has anyone used the ewerks complete kit, assembled it, and now has a working charger. If so please tell me how it went. Were there debuging problems that were not due to assembler error? quality of componants (solder mask on board ?). completeness of kit. surface mount soldering required??. 

thank you.


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

zafh15a said:


> Has anyone used the ewerks complete kit, assembled it, and now has a working charger. If so please tell me how it went. Were there debuging problems that were not due to assembler error? quality of componants (solder mask on board ?). completeness of kit. surface mount soldering required??.
> 
> thank you.


I have assembled one, but recognize that my kit is not the latest version. Hopefully the difficulties I had (at least those not due to operator error) have been addressed in the latest version. At the very least, the assembly video that they have now should make things a lot easier. That and the photos of some assembled and partially assembled chargers. When I first started there were neither photos of the latest version of the kit nor any real assembly instructions.

I had some problems because of mismatch between the BOM and the circuit diagram in a few areas. In some cases the parts on the diagram were not supplied because they had been made optional; in other cases the specific component was different than on the diagram. All of these were easily worked with some email back and forth with Valery. 

The soldering was easy, no surface mount.

There's another thread in this subforum that has some info from my and Citystromer's assembly experiences, you might want to look at that. It's called "building the 10kW Charger".

All that said, mine is done, working well and seems like a very nice charger. In spite of my mostly-self-imposed challenges, it was fun to put together and I certainly learned a lot. Plus I saved a crapload of money  In other words, it's a perfect example of why we do DIY


----------



## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi - sounds like an intermittent connection between positive HV input and hall sensor. Or between hall and analog pin. Can you check voltage on hall's output, and Arduino A5 pin? Also, please measure 82k resistor and confirm it's really 82k. Finally, measure voltage on that 82k resistor.
> 
> this should help troubleshoot.
> 
> ...




Hi,

so it seems that the PWM pulse is working and present on pin 6 of the LM211P comparator (oscilloscope) . However, I dont see any pulse coming out pin 7 of the LM211. May it be the lm211 that stopped working? definitely the A3120 is not receiving any signal (pulse)


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

richardriver said:


> Hi,
> 
> so it seems that the PWM pulse is working and present on pin 6 of the LM211P comparator (oscilloscope) . However, I dont see any pulse coming out pin 7 of the LM211. May it be the lm211 that stopped working? definitely the A3120 is not receiving any signal (pulse)


I had some issues with the over-current protection (posted 3 pages ago). Also one of the transistors had died (might have happened during my experiments).

Now I have a PFC question. PFC is up and running beautifully. But I noticed that galvanic isolation is sacrificed. Do I need yet another separate power supply, one for PFC one for the charger? Or is the lack of galvanic isolation of the charger control board not a problem?

I have replaced the current based in-voltage measurement with a simple resistive one. In case anyone is interested I can post some details. I did this because the hall sensor died and apparently there's no replacement.

EDIT: I just tested whether ditching the galvanic isolation poses a problem. It does. I had done some testing with my lab power supply to make sure everything was wired correctly and working. Then I hooked up the PFC+charger to AC and BANG! The connection between the two grounds vaporized, driver and PFC ICs died in the incident  So there must be another isolating DCDC-converter to supply the PFC circuit.


----------



## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

Have any of you had any problem with the 40mA hall sensors? the input voltage read 66v at 120v (cap reads 174v)....I swapped the hall sensors and now...I get 100v..are these hall sensors pretty delicate.. I just cant get a correct input voltage reading..I ordered another to from digikey but they are backordered until May...


----------



## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

richardriver said:


> Have any of you had any problem with the 40mA hall sensors? the input voltage read 66v at 120v (cap reads 174v)....I swapped the hall sensors and now...I get 100v..are these hall sensors pretty delicate.. I just cant get a correct input voltage reading..I ordered another to from digikey but they are backordered until May...


LM211 was bad, I replaced it and now works, just the voltage measuring issue with the hall effect sensors.


----------



## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

richardriver said:


> LM211 was bad, I replaced it and now works, just the voltage measuring issue with the hall effect sensors.


After frying mine I replaced it with a simple resistor bridge. 1M - 10k - 1M. Not very accurate but close enough.

Heres a picture of my build, more can be found in my album:









I added PWM control for the fan. At 30°C it runs at 30% and switches off at 25°C. At 50°C it runs at 90% and cuts back to 30% at 45°C.
Never got up to 50°C though, only by touching the sensor with the soldering iron.


----------



## richardriver (May 29, 2011)

jhuebner said:


> After frying mine I replaced it with a simple resistor bridge. 1M - 10k - 1M. Not very accurate but close enough.
> 
> Heres a picture of my build, more can be found in my album:
> 
> ...



I see, I am gonna have to wait until digikey sends me the 2 hall sensors by May 5th!.. Which pwm pin are you using to control the fan?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

wow. lots of updates. Apologies guys - DIYEcar forum stopped sending me updates. Will answer questions tomorrow.

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

richardriver said:


> Thanks Valery, found out that I never got pin 5 and 4 connected to the board. So I connected it and the voltage now is showing 66v (on lcd). On the hall sensor measured 2.51v as A5 pin. The mains voltage is 176.4v on the 82k resistor is 176.2v on the sensor is 160 mv. No voltage is coming out of the charger. Everything else seems to be working.
> duty cycle stays 0% freq 20khz out 0A , 0V temp 22c AH in 0AH. Not sure what I am missing should I put some sort of load?


2.51V is very close to the zero-current reading of the hall sensor. Can you check if that voltage changes when you remove input AC?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> I had some issues with the over-current protection (posted 3 pages ago). Also one of the transistors had died (might have happened during my experiments).
> 
> Now I have a PFC question. PFC is up and running beautifully. But I noticed that galvanic isolation is sacrificed. Do I need yet another separate power supply, one for PFC one for the charger? Or is the lack of galvanic isolation of the charger control board not a problem?
> 
> ...


Sorry about the blow-up. Lack of isolation that you described should not result in a blow-up. It is not recommended to lose isolation (because then you have your traction battery connected to the vehicle chassis which is a no-no) but it is not catastrophic like you described. Please check for any other possible connection from components to heatsink/box. We had a few units blow up in the early days because we used diodes with cathode connected to backplate and our isolating strips were punctured between diode and heatsink... Then we had a couple due to bridges' backplates not being isolated... Then one of our builders had a blow-up because his inductor touched heatsink... You get the idea ;-)


----------



## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

jhuebner;294532
I have replaced the current based in-voltage measurement with a simple resistive one. In case anyone is interested I can post some details. I did this because the hall sensor died and apparently there's no replacement.
[/QUOTE said:


> there are two Hall effects I use, a toroidal and inline
> 
> I use the inline mostly.


----------



## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

The new design looks really nifty.... There are some major changes to the layout and I wish I had the documentation so I could complete it.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

richardriver said:


> I see, I am gonna have to wait until digikey sends me the 2 hall sensors by May 5th!.. Which pwm pin are you using to control the fan?


I'm using pin D10 which is the other output of timer1



valerun said:


> Sorry about the blow-up. Lack of isolation that you described should not result in a blow-up. It is not recommended to lose isolation (because then you have your traction battery connected to the vehicle chassis which is a no-no) but it is not catastrophic like you described. Please check for any other possible connection from components to heatsink/box. We had a few units blow up in the early days because we used diodes with cathode connected to backplate and our isolating strips were punctured between diode and heatsink... Then we had a couple due to bridges' backplates not being isolated... Then one of our builders had a blow-up because his inductor touched heatsink... You get the idea ;-)


Well I frequently measure the ohmic resistance between the chassis/heat sink and +/-. It's been infinite so far. I only use half bridge modules anyway.
What did cause a problem was my newly introduced resistor bridge for input voltage measuring. The 1M resistor was mounted too close to the ground plane. It was ok with 60V from my lab power but ignited a spark when run off mains voltage (320V). Maybe this caused the PFC module failure as well...
Regarding distances - on the PFC board the high voltage inputs are surrounded by the ground plane. It smells like trouble. I will put some glue around it.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Regarding distances - on the PFC board the high voltage inputs are surrounded by the ground plane. It smells like trouble. I will put some glue around it.


We use Corona Dope coating for this (something like http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/4226.html )


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## EV Dawg (Oct 30, 2011)

*Troubleshooting tips*

Hi, I am trying to figure out why my charger is skipping to the charge complete screen instead of initiating the charge. Any advice for troubleshooting would be great.

Here's what I've done so far:

I've re-calibrated the battery output voltage several times with a 111 volt battery. It seems to always show 058 or 059 before I type in the numbers 111. Once that is done, despite the CV setting of 124V, which is clearly displayed on the screen after the countdown, the charger resorts to "charge complete" instead of initiating the charge process.

I've tried keeping the 59 volt setting during the calibration, just to see what would happen, and I got a "battery disconnected" error when trying to inititate the charge.

Also, I don't know if this matters, but plugging the charger into a 120VAC results in 340VDC (read by my voltmeter) across the capacitors, and reads 245 to 256 volts on the LCD screen.

Thanks


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Try putting a resistive load across the output (oven/cooktop burners work well) and run the charge cycle. That will rule out (or not) problems with the output voltage measurement.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Did you connect the charge-complete output to the HVC (BMS) input? Thats why mine wouldn't charge in the beginning


----------



## EV Dawg (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks for the input. So I ran a few more experiments, but still no luck. I should also mention that this is the non-pfc kit charger that I put together, so I am sure there could be errors in the circuitry. There is no BMS attached at the moment. I was only planning on using it to interupt the 12V to the control board once this issue is resolved.

I put 41kohms that I had across the output terminals. One literally shocking issue , but not too surprising is that there is 170v between the HV GND and Earth GND. It doesn't look like there is any way around that, but could it be a source for voltage reading errors? The control board is isolated though I am wondering if the control gnd should be connected to earth gnd.

Also, upon voltage calibration, I even tried setting the 110V pack as 90 volts, just to see, and I still get the charge complete screen immediately after the charge confirmation screen appears.

Anyhow, the voltage sensors seem to be working properly, each showing about a 26.5 mV/mA.

I am running software version 7.1


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

EV Dawg said:


> Thanks for the input. So I ran a few more experiments, but still no luck. I should also mention that this is the non-pfc kit charger that I put together, so I am sure there could be errors in the circuitry. There is no BMS attached at the moment. I was only planning on using it to interupt the 12V to the control board once this issue is resolved.
> 
> I put 41kohms that I had across the output terminals. One literally shocking issue , but not too surprising is that there is 170v between the HV GND and Earth GND. It doesn't look like there is any way around that, but could it be a source for voltage reading errors? The control board is isolated though I am wondering if the control gnd should be connected to earth gnd.
> 
> ...


Please connect EOC output and BMS input of the charger. Or you can connect BMS to +5V. Basically, the charger expects +5V on the BMS input in order to run. If it does not see it, it will exit the charging loop immediately, which is what seems to be happening here.

You can also disable this in code, of course.

Let me know if that helps. 

Re earth ground & HV - you expect high voltage potential between HV lines and ground so I wouldn't say this by itself is a problem. The control ground can be linked to earth ground.

Re 340V from 110VAC - this is the voltage doubler circuit at work, producing the output voltage that's equal to peak-to-peak amplitude of the input AC voltage. LCD screen is showing approximate input AC voltage (calculated by a simple division of the sensed input DC voltage by sqrt(2)). 

hope this helps.

Valery


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## EV Dawg (Oct 30, 2011)

Ok. That explains a lot. Thanks. I was under the impression that the BMS was to cut out the entire 12v supply, because I did not see any BMS wiring in the schematic.

So it looks like pin D12 is the pin that is supposed to be held at 5v in order for the charger to run according to the description in the code. Correct?

Just now, I connected the 5v regulated supply directly to the D12 pin. However, I am still getting the same result. Is there something else I am missing?

Thanks

EDIT: It was pin 13 

Now it seems to be working!!!. I had the current set at 5 amps, and now the current sensor is apparently on backwards, because it reads negative current. The inrush resistors got up to 190F in about a minute which is worrysome.

Thanks for all your help!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

EV Dawg said:


> Ok. That explains a lot. Thanks. I was under the impression that the BMS was to cut out the entire 12v supply, because I did not see any BMS wiring in the schematic.
> 
> So it looks like pin D12 is the pin that is supposed to be held at 5v in order for the charger to run according to the description in the code. Correct?
> 
> ...


Awesome! Pls make sure your sensor is in the right direction. 

Working temp for the inrush resistors is 200 degrees CENTIGRADE (almost 400 F) so 190F is ok.

Valery.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> Awesome! Pls make sure your sensor is in the right direction.
> 
> Working temp for the inrush resistors is 200 degrees CENTIGRADE (almost 400 F) so 190F is ok.
> 
> Valery.


Are you planning to replace that sucker with a precharge resistor + relay? Works well for me. I connected the relay to the fan output.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Are you planning to replace that sucker with a precharge resistor + relay? Works well for me. I connected the relay to the fan output.


...that is clever!.. nice, Johannes! we should do that


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## Nordic (Mar 28, 2012)

Hi Vale and Jack

I enjoyed reading the threads about the development of this project. 

I have been thinking of building a charger for my e-bike pack which currently consists of 14S 10 Amphr LiFePo4. I charge at about 51 volts now and wonder if this circuit would work? The idea would be to build the circuit from your kit without the big capacitors, large heatsink and high current\voltage IGBT for now as I only need 10-20 Amps out at 51 Volts but allow for a future upgrade of power components if I do get an EV car or increase the pack capacity. 

Question:
Will the circuit run on 110 volts AC input without a voltage doubler? I would feel better if in case of an IGBT short if only 150 VDC hit my cells and BMS briefly before the fuse blew rather than 350 VDC or so.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Nordic said:


> Hi Vale and Jack
> 
> I enjoyed reading the threads about the development of this project.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your interest!

The circuit will work with any FET or IGBT up to ~400A 1200V. We have exactly this circuit working on FET-based 50-V charger for my son's scooter right now ;-) If you like, we can send you the PCBs we use for that (I now have a habit of ordering 10 copies of everything so have some leftovers around that I can sell at cost). 

Re 150 vs 300VDC hitting your cells - neither will hurt them as they would actually *never* be hit with anything significantly above their CV. All the voltage will be dropped on your house wiring and then the fuse would trip. So I wouldn't worry much about that. Either way, sounds like you won't need a doubler anyway since your battery voltage is low. The circuit does not need doubler to operate

Hope this helps.

Valery


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## Nordic (Mar 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Re 150 vs 300VDC hitting your cells - neither will hurt them as they would actually *never* be hit with anything significantly above their CV. All the voltage will be dropped on your house wiring and then the fuse would trip. So I wouldn't worry much about that. Either way, sounds like you won't need a doubler anyway since your battery voltage is low. The circuit does not need doubler to operate
> 
> Valery


Thanks for the reply.
I was more concerned with the BMS Mosfets poping as they are probably rated at 75 VDC or so also I have a 75 Volt Schottky diode in series in the bike Battery to prevent a reverse polarity mishap if the charger wires are connected backwards. 

I would like to take a run at this circuit. Are the circuit boards for the scooter different than the 10KW version? I ask because I may modify the low power version to higher power down the road as I mentioned.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Nordic said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I was more concerned with the BMS Mosfets poping as they are probably rated at 75 VDC or so also I have a 75 Volt Schottky diode in series in the bike Battery to prevent a reverse polarity mishap if the charger wires are connected backwards.
> 
> I would like to take a run at this circuit. Are the circuit boards for the scooter different than the 10KW version? I ask because I may modify the low power version to higher power down the road as I mentioned.


should be fine - those BMS boards won't see any different voltage from the cells.

the circuit I mentioned is different from 10kW version. It will only work up to ~20A output. If you want capability to upgrade later, I would suggest going with the full kit version.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just added more cells to the pack for 52s4p and charging to 179.5v. Charging and terminating perfectly. Great advantage to have a programmable charger in this case. Few button presses and your done.

I had an NTC fail last week. Charger shutdown and suffered no other damage. Only had one spare so running on that now while waiting on digikey! If I had more room in the enclosure I'd probably look at a precharge setup.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Just added more cells to the pack for 52s4p and charging to 179.5v. Charging and terminating perfectly. Great advantage to have a programmable charger in this case. Few button presses and your done.
> 
> I had an NTC fail last week. Charger shutdown and suffered no other damage. Only had one spare so running on that now while waiting on digikey! If I had more room in the enclosure I'd probably look at a precharge setup.


Thanks for an update! Yes, those NTCs are a bit sensitive to mechanic disturbances (e.g., we had them outside the box on a couple of units and under a bit of flex at full power, they deteriorate with time). So best to ensure their leads cannot move relative to each other. And for full power, best to parallel 2 of them.

Precharge is best, of course, but requires more components. One trick we are now using in our units here is an 10K resistor across the output diode. If you battery is ~ or more than 200V, this will keep the main caps charged to that voltage and most of the inrush will go away. 

If you decide to do a proper precharge, do what Johannes suggested - use fan turn-on signal for a precharge relay, as well. That point in code is usually reached 15 seconds after AC is connected - plenty for a proper precharge circuit (with 10000uF main caps, you need to have R<500 Ohm for RC<5 seconds; 330R is a good choice. has to be able to absorb 500 Joules and not blow up so one of those aluminum-case 10W resistors might be best)


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## tonystark (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi Valery,
Will you check your email.
Would likelove an updated on the charger order.
Thanks,
Johnny


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Finally, some more progress on the charger.

The spare parts arrived last week so I repaired the PFC board. Before blowing it up again I did some more checking. Connected the input to an 80V LiFePo pack and the output to a lead battery. On the PFC circuit I skipped one 1M resistor on all voltage measuring inputs so it generated 190V from 80V. I let the charger run at low amps and took out the scope.
Turns out I could see the PFC 22khz switching when measuring between ground and the heatsink! Turns out the inductor had shorted with the heatsink, heres why:










The inductor is mounted next to the heatsink and obviously touched it.

So Valery, you were right 

Now I'm running of mains voltage. The PFC generates 320V, so no higher than rectifying voltage, is that correct? I thought it should be 380V from the back of my head. I can see PFC switching though.

Next step is to increase PFC voltage in small steps and finally to 600V to charge my 500V pack.

I'm also getting a 3~ rectifier to charge from 3~ outputs.

EDIT: not quite... the PFC wasn't actually working, I saw the buck switching. PFC blew up again because that chinese power supply seems to lack proper isolation i.e. the output voltage doesn't seem to be really floating. This is frustrating, especially since the 1153s is so hard to replace. Next time I'll order 10 or so.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Finally, some more progress on the charger.
> 
> The spare parts arrived last week so I repaired the PFC board. Before blowing it up again I did some more checking. Connected the input to an 80V LiFePo pack and the output to a lead battery. On the PFC circuit I skipped one 1M resistor on all voltage measuring inputs so it generated 190V from 80V. I let the charger run at low amps and took out the scope.
> Turns out I could see the PFC 22khz switching when measuring between ground and the heatsink! Turns out the inductor had shorted with the heatsink, heres why:
> ...


Glad you got the short figured out! 

Re PFC: what exactly blew up? The PFC power stage blow ups are pretty spectacular as they result in shorting the mains through IGBT. Based on your description, that's not what happened, right? when you say 'chinese power supply', which one do you mean? Maybe some other shorts somewhere? 

Also, in a few cases, we had PFC stalling because of the insufficient supply voltage (1153 chips minimum operating voltage is 14V per datasheet) or because we forgot to connect input voltage pickup (Vbop) to the PFC board.

Let's figure this out.

V


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> Glad you got the short figured out!
> 
> Re PFC: what exactly blew up? The PFC power stage blow ups are pretty spectacular as they result in shorting the mains through IGBT. Based on your description, that's not what happened, right? when you say 'chinese power supply', which one do you mean? Maybe some other shorts somewhere?
> 
> ...


The ir1153s melted (has a small hole), everything else seems ok.
By chinese power supply I mean the laptop ac/dc supply. The precharge PTC makes popping noises and it takes a couple of attempts until it actually delivers stable power. Was like that from the beginning.

When I hooked up the mains supply through a one-pole switch (switched off) the main breaker tripped and the power supply smoked.

so
Phase ---|------|-- +15V
Neutral --|AC/DC|-- GND --- Power GND ---- | Rectifier | --- Neutral or phase

trips the breaker. In my opinion this is only possible when the galvanic isolation within the AC/DC doesn't hold up.

With 80Vdc the PFC worked nicely.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Small update on the charger. Installed a precharge system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egp372p7pMw


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Small update on the charger. Installed a precharge system.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egp372p7pMw


Nice  Liked your comments "you can't know everything ahead of schedule".

Just why didn't you use the arduino to time the precharge? (In order to reduce component count)


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Could have used the arduino but would have necessitated a code mod and wiring a solid state relay to control the contactor. Only had a few hours on friday to get it done and needed a quick fix. Seems to be working quite well and didn't turn out too bad from a layout perspective.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

I have been working on approaching chargers from those that work in RVs, and using the CAN approach.
this can be considered a major upgrade to the present charger.
The first thing that came out of it was a PCB for monitoring AC/DC Current, upto 100 amp, voltage, and AC phasing. 
As it says it is prototype. Should have it checked out this summer.
the other is using the olimexino layout. since it already incorporates the CAN interface.
As a side effort, I have converted the Ardiuno Code used to work with the STM32, which I would be glad to donate, once it is checked out. 
I will also be willing to donate the eagle files for the modified olimexino layout for use in this charger.

you are welcome to incorporate this and take it over as yours if you want. let me know.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

Valery,

I'm still waiting...
... less patiently.

There are several members of the local Electric Auto Association that are VERY interested in your charger and Android Dashboard. They have been pestering me on a weekly basis for updates.

Stan


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

StanSimmons said:


> Valery,
> 
> I'm still waiting...
> ... less patiently.
> ...


Hi Stan - as discussed over email, the parts have been sent a week ago. If you don't receive them in the next day or so, we will re-send. But we already had a situation similar to this with another customer when we issued refund only to have the parts arrive the next day and the customer had to go through a transaction again.

Hope it does show up today / tomorrow.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## lowcarbon-idea (Sep 2, 2010)

Cool! How about the input power factor and Efficiency of this charger? Could it controllable? It is a amasing low cost solution.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

lowcarbon-idea said:


> Cool! How about the input power factor and Efficiency of this charger? Could it controllable? It is a amasing low cost solution.


PFC unit has >0.95 power factor. Full power efficiency is over 90%.

Could it be controllable? - depends on what you call controllable. It can be fully programmed to match your battery type / size. In fact, it can be programmed to do things that are completely different from the charging - e.g., DC-DC booster, etc.


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## kortas (Apr 18, 2012)

lowcarbon-idea said:


> Cool! How about the input power factor and Efficiency of this charger? Could it controllable? It is a amasing low cost solution.


It is amazingly simple and low cost because it lacks galvanic isolation.

Many people at school told me not to make this kind of charger because it can be dangerous  Well I am going to finish it anyway.

When I touch + electrode of a welding power supply (around 100V) I get just a small pop (capacitive). I do not think this would happen with EMW charger if I touch +100V output?

I was thinking about using *RCD* (residual protective device) to improve safety of this charger. Since RCD is able to protect you from direct contact with 230V... What do you think?


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## mckemie (Aug 22, 2007)

I've been getting a bad feeling about my charger order. Here is the situation:
1) I placed an order and paid via PayPal April 18
2) I exchanged emails with Valery April 19
3) On April 20, I posed a few questions, including shipping date, but got no response.
4) On May 3, I queried again and did get a response which estimated shipping "next week".
5) On May 18, I sent another query asking for a delivery. And got no response.
6) Today, May 23, I called (650)-400-3591 and got a recorded message telling me "the mailbox is full".

I'll wait a couple of days more and see if PayPal can offer a remedy.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

Communication is not his best skill.

He uses the USPS for shipping... the second worst method in the US. 

I suspect that between Earth Day (April 21,22) and Maker Faire (May 19,20) and the prep for both events he didn't take the time to expedite orders.

You will get your product eventually, but check the parts to make sure you have everything. I think he must have *********************** doing his pick and pack for shipping. It took three tries to get everything correct on my order. (Spoke too soon, still missing parts)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

mckemie said:


> I've been getting a bad feeling about my charger order. Here is the situation:
> 1) I placed an order and paid via PayPal April 18
> 2) I exchanged emails with Valery April 19
> 3) On April 20, I posed a few questions, including shipping date, but got no response.
> ...


Sorry William - we did fall behind on the orders a bit in the past couple of months. I apologize to you and all others who have been affected. 

Last couple of weeks, were able to catch up quite a bit, though. Got 3 units shipped today and yours is the first of the 3 remaining outstanding orders we have. 

We are also moving to UPS as our shipper so things should become more streamlined with the tracking numbers and such.

Overall, this is definitely a learning experience for us making an open-source product that is as complicated and sophisticated as this. As Stan mentioned above (and as others noted on a number of previous pages), we always try to make things right if they do get delayed, etc. While we might have delayed responses / shipments on a few occasions, we have not left anyone hanging. Whenever we saw that we cannot deliver on time and the customer cannot afford to wait, we have issued refunds.

I will follow up with you over email on timing of your specific order.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

I do a lot of ordering and shipping on USPS.
First class with tracking usually reaches across the US in about 5 business days.
then there is the fix rate express with Tracking.
I have not had one missplaced shipment with USPS in 5 yrs.

UPS tracking is only good to businesses. the will leave packages on the porch for residential. 

FWIIW


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

3 orders out of 3 orders, Palo Alto, CA to Dallas, TX, USPS took more than a week... one took 11 days. 

I happily pay extra for tracking info that actually tracks with the package, USPS tracking usually updates the day after the package has arrived. 

I've had bills and checks coming to me lost by USPS, I've had IRS paperwork going out lost by USPS (that one was painful). I don't send anything time sensitive or valuable thru USPS, and haven't for years. The only thing that I get reliably and quickly from USPS is junk mail. 

YMMV


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

StanSimmons said:


> I think he must have *********************** doing his pick and pack for shipping. It took three tries to get everything correct on my order.


Hi Stan, consider the fact that you are talking here about real people who are reading this forum... they are also people who helps us give you, the user, an access to a free, open-source design for a product that this market just does not have...


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi Stan, consider the fact that you are talking here about real people who are reading this forum... they are also people who helps us give you, the user, an access to a free, open-source design for a product that this market just does not have...


I finally checked the parts on the last set your people sent... I had assumed that on the third try someone would be extra careful, so I hadn't bothered to check until I sat down to try to finish the kit tonight. I'll be sending you an email tomorrow with the details. 

Perhaps I was a bit pejorative about your shipping dept. Due to the nature of what types of parts were missing and incorrect on my order, I could only assume that whoever picked and packed my original order was unable (or unwilling) to read a pick list. Whoever packed it has cost you a lot of time, grief and shipping costs to deal with my order. I worked as a "pick and pack" grunt years ago while going to school, and I would have been fired over a similar mistake... especially if it happened a second time.

While I'm happy that you have been eager to work out problems, I feel that some attention to detail in the shipping department could dramatically reduce the need for working out said problems. 

I'd also like to recommend that your documentation add a complete parts check list, indicating what is included in the kit and what must be purchased locally. Much of the back and forth on the missing parts could have been remedied with such a list.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

StanSimmons said:


> I'd also like to recommend that your documentation add a complete parts check list, indicating what is included in the kit and what must be purchased locally. Much of the back and forth on the missing parts could have been remedied with such a list.


I'll second this. I had the very same problem and it adds a level of frustration that is unnecessary and easily avoided with the simple act of including a printed page that already exists. I know others have experienced this as well.

That said, I certainly appreciate the extremely supportive community and the product and and I hope you are profiting appropriately.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

swoozle said:


> ...and I hope you are profiting appropriately.


At their prices? You got to be kidding. These guys have put in a lot of work to create a high power smart charger for low cost, then create a kit to make it even lower cost to diyers, and they mostly get grief about this or that problem. This is only a sideline to them, their main effort is conversions. 

You see this again and again on this site. Evnetics, Electric Motor Werks, and others make very little if any profit selling to diyers. I see people thanking them for making their products available far less often than I see people complaining about this or that little issue. I've often wondered why anyone serves this market. Without people like them the quality and choices of components available would be much less. Soliton1 and Jr, minibms, evdisplay, Android for evdisplay, 10kW smart charger, none of these were available when I converted a car in 2009, and all of them have been developed by individuals. Many of these people are new to setting up a business, and their products are new. You've got to expect some problems and growing pains in this case. This is not directed at you swoozle, as it is clear you were thanking them for their efforts. So Stan when will you be offering a product at less than rock bottom prices with excellent support and no mistakes right out of the starting gate?


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> At their prices? You got to be kidding. These guys have put in a lot of work to create a high power smart charger for low cost, then create a kit to make it even lower cost to diyers, and they mostly get grief about this or that problem. This is only a sideline to them, their main effort is conversions.
> 
> You see this again and again on this site. Evnetics, Electric Motor Werks, and others make very little if any profit selling to diyers. I see people thanking them for making their products available far less often than I see people complaining about this or that little issue. I've often wondered why anyone serves this market. Without people like them the quality and choices of components available would be much less. Soliton1 and Jr, minibms, evdisplay, Android for evdisplay, 10kW smart charger, none of these were available when I converted a car in 2009, and all of them have been developed by individuals. Many of these people are new to setting up a business, and their products are new. You've got to expect some problems and growing pains in this case. This is not directed at you swoozle, as it is clear you were thanking them for their efforts. So Stan when will you be offering a product at less than rock bottom prices with excellent support and no mistakes right out of the starting gate?



+1 - Agreed with tomofreno;
Just wanted to add that GM and other Main$tream Manufactures WILL NOT do anything without $$$ "profiting appropriately" in their pocket and EVERYONE is OKAY with this... Also, They WILL NOT do anything for DIY guys like us... 

My 2 c
-Y.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

tomofreno said:


> So Stan when will you be offering a product at less than rock bottom prices with excellent support and no mistakes right out of the starting gate?


I think that I have been VERY understanding about the issues and delays on my order, and I'm sure Valery will agree. 

I think you will have to agree that having paid in full on March 13, 2012 that I should be able to reasonably expect to have all the correct parts more than 10 weeks later.

I fully understand that the DIY stuff is a side business for him, and I do thank him for making it available. If I had known all the issues that were going to come up, I still would buy from Valery... but I would spend the extra bucks and buy the complete, tested charger.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

StanSimmons said:


> I think that I have been VERY understanding about the issues and delays on my order, and I'm sure Valery will agree.
> 
> I think you will have to agree that having paid in full on March 13, 2012 that I should be able to reasonably expect to have all the correct parts more than 10 weeks later.
> 
> I fully understand that the DIY stuff is a side business for him, and I do thank him for making it available. If I had known all the issues that were going to come up, I still would buy from Valery... but I would spend the extra bucks and buy the complete, tested charger.


I sell amplifier kits and I know mistakes kill any profit on a sale because the extra shipping cost is a killer.

I'm about to order a Kit, please Val answer my PM 
I hope all is well with the parts I order since it would include international shipping.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thank you guys for your support!

We are honestly trying our best to serve all our customers while continuing to develop our DIY products - from our Android EV Dashboard to this Charger to our full conversion kits. 

I do welcome constructive criticism and ideas for improvements. Just keep it professional and factual - without getting personal. Last thing I want is for this forum to hold useless emotional back-and-forth discussions of my personnel's "developmental challenges"... 

For those who think they are not getting the value out of our work, I'd like to point to a well-known rule-of-thumb in the electronics products business - to make a profitable consumer electronics product, your retail price should be at least FOUR times the cost of your components. That's the only way a business can pay for picking / packing, handling the phones / emails in a timely manner, customer service (esp. on DIY products like this - you would not believe some of the questions we are getting...), reseller margins, costs of returns, general business overhead, and investment into future versions. 

Think about this next time you evaluate the available options... For an extra credit, you can try to guess if we are making any money on these things ;-) 

Anyway, enough of this. *My next post here will be introducing the new version of the kits and chargers we are now making available - this is a very exciting new development and I am sure you guys will all love it. *

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kortas said:


> It is amazingly simple and low cost because it lacks galvanic isolation.
> 
> Many people at school told me not to make this kind of charger because it can be dangerous  Well I am going to finish it anyway.
> 
> ...


There are ways to make this charger as safe as an isolated unit. We have a number of customers who use it on a GFCI-protected circuits. GFCI protection is routinely used to protect electrical outlets in wet areas like spas, garages, etc. It will break the circuit before you will feel anything.

Furthermore, all of the public charging stations have this protection built in so you will be safe charging outside of your garage, as well.

But yes, without additional protection such as GFCI, it is not as safe as a fully isolated unit. Designing & building an isolated 10kW+ unit is not trivial and not cheap.

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ok guys - as promised.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7 is what you were waiting for 

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Looks great Val  Will you be doing a kit for just the control board and driver? How have you implemented the J1772 if you don't mind my asking?


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

jackbauer said:


> Looks great Val  Will you be doing a kit for just the control board and driver? How have you implemented the J1772 if you don't mind my asking?


It says J1772 support under additional features.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Great work, guys! Can the DC input feature support (now or in the future) Level 3 charging such as the CHAdeMO system ?

Also, have you thought about being a real charging station hog and using two J1772 inputs at the same time?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

electro wrks said:


> Great work, guys! Can the DC input feature support (now or in the future) Level 3 charging such as the CHAdeMO system ?


The Level 3 charging is basically a connection directly to the traction battery. The car tells the Level 3 station what it needs and the charge is controlled by the electronics in the ground station. There is no good reason why the CPU in the charger couldn't be configured to talk to a CHAdeMO station assuming the specs are published.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

somanywelps said:


> It says J1772 support under additional features.


I think jackbauer wanted to know how we did it. Here's how:
1. We deploy an 'abridged' version of the handshake - as soon as the plug is inserted, we command the EVSE to turn on the AC (via hardwired diode + 1k resistor)
2. Then the firmware looks at the pilot signal and calculates the max available power:

// check J1772
J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);
if(J1772_dur>50) { // noise control. also, deals with the case when no J1772 signal present at all
absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6A input
}


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

electro wrks said:


> Great work, guys! Can the DC input feature support (now or in the future) Level 3 charging such as the CHAdeMO system ?
> 
> Also, have you thought about being a real charging station hog and using two J1772 inputs at the same time?


1. yes but we need to implement the handshake protocol in firmware. If someone has access to CHAdeMO specs with CAN messaging details, PM me.

2. yes! we are actually planning to put in a second J1772 into our cars soon. just need to have a separate pilot RD network to force turn-on on the second plug.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Finally some good news from the PFC front: I replaced the ir1153s and connected it to the power supply using another 15V isolated DC/DC converter.
It was too late last night to test in on my actual pack but charging my 80V test pack off the mains worked nicely!

Now some questions:
1. How do I increase the boost voltage to 600V?
2. I observed that when I used my lab power supply (65V) and boosted to 190V I could only draw about 1A from the boost stage. Higher than that resulted in a duty cycle > 70% and some ugly-sounding (current?) limiting mode of the PFC. Does that point out a problem or I will I be fine when charging from the mains?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Finally some good news from the PFC front: I replaced the ir1153s and connected it to the power supply using another 15V isolated DC/DC converter.
> It was too late last night to test in on my actual pack but charging my 80V test pack off the mains worked nicely!
> 
> Now some questions:
> ...


Great news, Johannes!

1. You just need to modify the voltage divider resistor values. In the reference design (380V DC output), 2x 1M resistors and a 27k resistor are used. This represents a division factor of ~77. Per ir1153 datasheet, you need to multiply this by 5V to get an output voltage, which in this case turns out to be 385V. You just need to make the division factor = 600/5=120. The easiest is to replace one of your 1M resistors with 2 1M resistors wired in series. MAKE SURE ALL YOUR CAPS, CONNECTORS, etc. ARE RATED TO WITHSTAND AT LEAST 600VDC (700 would be safer), and SEMICONDUCTORS (IGBT, freewheeling diode) - AT LEAST 1,000V (due to switching voltage spikes).

2. Most likely this is undervoltage protection kicking in. Since you were able to charge your 80V pack from the mains at high power (?), I think you should be fine.

Let us know how it goes. Remember to go slowly on the power increase, measure the temperature often, and wear eye protection (just in case - those elcap explosions are nasty ;-)

V


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi all,

I got my V9 kit yesterday and it looks great! I have a few decisions to make on placement of components before I take the plunge on assembly.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> 2. Most likely this is undervoltage protection kicking in. Since you were able to charge your 80V pack from the mains at high power (?), I think you should be fine.


No, I was only charging with 1A because the pack is 98% full.

Yesterday I "charged" a resistor (namely a kettle). At 100V/3A the current limiter of the buck stage kicked in. I then disabled the PFC by disconnecting its power, so the buck stage runs "normally" from rectified AC. I let it ramp up to 5A with no problems (as before).
I also made a makeshift AC-current sensor for my scope (10 rounds around the output cable). Without PFC I could only see some remainders of the buck stage switching and inductor resonant swings, with PFC I saw some nasty spikes whenever the buck stage switched on.
What am I missing?

I'm already planning to ditch the PFC stage alltogether and use a voltage doubler for 1-phase charging and a bridge rectifier for 3-phase charging. What do you think about that?


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

Warning... noob question here!

What is the advantage and/or reason for the PFC stage? It appears to lower overall efficiency, but allow a wider range of voltage input and higher voltage output. If I have a basic 30a/220v wall plug and a 168v pack, is there any need for the PFC? What does it get me?

thanks...
david. (early in the process of upgrading to a high power charger, still figuring out my requirements. If I go this route, it will be a pre-built unit, not a kit.)


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, basically a 1-phase outlet does not deliver continous power as does a 3-phase outlet.

Behind the rectifier you get this








The capacitors integrate over these waves and make the "valleys" quite a bit less deep. But theres still some ripple.
So now, while theres a valley, the charger pulls energy just from the caps and on the next positive slope the caps are recharged. In the moment of recharging the ingoing current is higher. So if you're charging at 10A (input) average the peak input current might reach up to 15A. In Germany, 1-phase outlets are usually fused with 16A. So if you were to charge at 11A input current the breaker trips.

The PFC stage boosts the voltage to a constant value. So on a "hill" it boosts less, in a valley it boosts more. Since now the caps are kept at a constant voltage and the effect of charging peak-current is gone.

What does it get you? You can use your wall outlet to its full rated power.

The mathematical explanation is probably more to the point but less intuitive (to me at least).
PFC makes the charger look like a resistor to the grid. Without PFC it looks like a capacitor.

Speaking of my charger: I have removed the PFC stage and done some tests with the voltage doubler configuration. My precharge resistors are now too large to charge the capacitors in time. Will have to get some lower value. Apart from that it worked really well.

I will now add a 3-phase rectifier in case I ever want to do fast charging. Those commercial charging stages offer 3-phase output as well.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> Well, basically a 1-phase outlet does not deliver continous power as does a 3-phase outlet.


nice post, Johannes! With an animated circuit diagram - nice 

One small correction - even with the PFC stage, boosted voltage is not constant - it has a significant 120Hz ripple component. Otherwise it would not be able to look resistive to the AC line. That ripple, however, is much smaller than what you would get with the voltage doubler / simple rectifier.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> No, I was only charging with 1A because the pack is 98% full.
> 
> Yesterday I "charged" a resistor (namely a kettle). At 100V/3A the current limiter of the buck stage kicked in. I then disabled the PFC by disconnecting its power, so the buck stage runs "normally" from rectified AC. I let it ramp up to 5A with no problems (as before).
> I also made a makeshift AC-current sensor for my scope (10 rounds around the output cable). Without PFC I could only see some remainders of the buck stage switching and inductor resonant swings, with PFC I saw some nasty spikes whenever the buck stage switched on.
> ...


Hm. Sounds like the issue in current sensing circuit in the PFC stage. If that pickup is noisy, you will get early cutoffs like that. 

Can you post a photo of your PFC stage layout, with current sensing circuit clearly visible?

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

You even mentioned this on your build instructions... silly me.

Unfortunatly I have removed the PFC stage now and am using the voltage doubler.

Heres an old picture without wire though:










From the shunt to the control board, which sits on the gate contacts, there about 7cm of that grey cable that you see all around. No shielding, no twisted pair....


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

jhuebner said:


> What does it get you? You can use your wall outlet to its full rated power.


so without the PFC stage, my 220v 30a outlet would be limited to ~20a? Is that about right? but it would be a little more efficient without the PFC? Is that also right?

would this be the same case using a public charging station (Chargepoint Level 2 in my case, the ones near me are listed as 208v/240v, 30a, J1772)? Would I be limited to 20a at these stations without the PFC stage?

Sorry, It's been about 20 years since I've taken EE101 and barely get the cool diagram you posted.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

dladd said:


> so without the PFC stage, my 220v 30a outlet would be limited to ~20a? Is that about right? but it would be a little more efficient without the PFC? Is that also right?


both correct as far as I can see.



dladd said:


> would this be the same case using a public charging station (Chargepoint Level 2 in my case, the ones near me are listed as 208v/240v, 30a, J1772)? Would I be limited to 20a at these stations without the PFC stage?
> 
> Sorry, It's been about 20 years since I've taken EE101 and barely get the cool diagram you posted.


Aren't the public charging stations 3-phase? Otherwise I'm not really informed. Anyway with PFC you get more continous power at lower current rates.

I don't take credits for the diagram, its stolen 
http://www.schule-bw.de/unterricht/...material/e_lehre_1/elektronik/brueckenglg.htm

Regards,
Johannes


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Guys , my non-pfc version gets about .95pf so the loss may not be as bad as you think.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Guys , my non-pfc version gets about .95pf so the loss may not be as bad as you think.


What value are your caps? Do large caps help PF?
Mine are 2 6800µ in series, so 3400µ.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

4700uf on the input and output. Not sure if it helps but i was very impressed with the pf. And i've not had any cable heating either even when running on a 13A supply.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

I consider my charger finished as far as 1-phase charging is concerned



















I've done another test run in voltage doubler configuration giving me about 650V DC on the input. I charged the battery pack of my Ligier (55x60Ah Sinopoly) at 190V/12A. The heatsink temp got to 43°C which really isn't much.

I have changed the construction a bit:
1. Precharge relay instead of PTC
2. For AC input I use a Wieland RST20I5 GS1 (3-phase capable)
3. For DC output I use an Anderson SB50
4. As input elcaps I use 2 6800µf in series
5. As output elcaps I use 2 330µF in series
6. For input voltage measuring I use a resistor bridge (because the hall sensor melted)
7. Not using the circuit breaker because its rated for 120Vac
8. The fan is PWM controlled
9. The IGBT module is an SKM400GB126 - 1200V, 400A. Its complete overkill and I'm thinking of swapping it for a 1200V, 50A IGBT

Since the voltage doubler configuration works so well I removed the PFC stage. Removes complexity and extra heat-producing silicon. As mentioned above I can still charge at 2,2kW and thats already more than a single plug-in device is allowed to consume in Germany.

Once I get the 3-phase configuration running power factor is not an issue anyway. That will give me 11kW - exciting 

So all the ups and downs are digested and I want to say: thank you Valery for offering this awesome kit! And thanks to everybody who contributed.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> I consider my charger finished as far as 1-phase charging is concerned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks VERY nice, Johannes - what they call 'production quality'! ;-)

Once you go to a smaller IGBT, the efficiency will improve even more - as the IGBT will be able to switch faster and spend less time in linear mode.

Re voltage measurement - so as I understand, you tied Arduino ground with high-voltage ground? Did you experience any noise issues? 

Also, make sure that your HV ground is isolated from the box - the control board's ground is routed to mounting points so if you mount it to the box with metal bolts, Arduino ground is connected to the box. If you tie HV ground with Arduino ground through resistor bridge, your box is now connected to negative battery terminal. When you mount the box to the frame of your car, your car will get connected to negative battery terminal - which is dangerous, esp at your target voltage! But maybe I misunderstood your description above...

Valery.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks 

No worries, the voltage measurement uses a 1M resistor on either pole. Also, the mounting points that are surrounded with copper are fixed with plastic holders, not metal. I have also connected the earth to the heatsink as to trip fault current detectors (GFCI?).

In our house earth and neutral are the same, so any hard fault will cause the regular breaker to trip.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi,

Is anyone else working on assembling Version 9?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is anyone else working on assembling Version 9?


I just received my V9 parts today.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Robin,

Are you doing the PFC or non-PFC? I'm leaning toward a custom enclosure to make it shorter in height and a little longer. So I'm building the boards up and see how I can rearrange the layout. I'm going with non-PFC.

Zak


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Robin,
> 
> Are you doing the PFC or non-PFC? I'm leaning toward a custom enclosure to make it shorter in height and a little longer. So I'm building the boards up and see how I can rearrange the layout. I'm going with non-PFC.
> 
> Zak


I'm going with PFC, and also a custom enclosure to fit the remaining space beside my batteries.

I just went through the parts, all the big stuff is good, but I'll have to check on some resistor/cap values and an oddly marked IC.


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## StanSimmons (Sep 3, 2011)

I've finally got all of the components for v9 (PFC, water cooled) and am nearly finished with the board construction. I'm looking forward to testing it later in the week.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

StanSimmons said:


> I've finally got all of the components for v9 (PFC, water cooled) and am nearly finished with the board construction. I'm looking forward to testing it later in the week.


Good news Stan, If you can post a few pics that would be great!


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Assembly process photo: Keeping Arduino pins vertical for soldering - Note: no pins in A6,A7 holes. 
Love my new Hakko FX-888 Soldering Station and 4 tips, well worth the money.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I've been contemplating documenting/photographing my build process. Mine is an air cooled PFC version, but would give many of the basics for someone building any version. I designed and sell a headphone amplifier kit and I think based on the description/photo's that I created anyone could build it even if they've never touched a soldering iron before.

This is my build instruction set for the amplifier kit, I would organize it in a similar way for the charger if I go ahead with it.
http://rwaudio.com/RW%20Audio%20Amp1%20DIY%20Assembly%20Guide%20Rev.%201.0.pdf


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Here's a YouTube instructional video on soldering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

I made a 9 pin female header for the LCD Screen.











I still need to make a support for the top of the screen, but it's easier to remove the screen if necessary.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> I made a 9 pin female header for the LCD Screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great tips, Zak - thanks for sharing! We will be including your tips / photos into our build manuals if you don't mind...

We are starting the next batch of 5 units now - will be posting pictures as we go. After done, will post a full photo/video set on site.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

No problem using the pics, glad you like the ideas. You might include a long enough strip of the female header material for this option. I do believe an upper screen support is needed. The screen also could simply be glued to the enclosure and stay there if the control board is removed. If something happens to the lcd it would certainly be a lot easier to fix without having to unsolder it's pins from the control board.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Assembly process photo: Keeping Arduino pins vertical for soldering - Note: no pins in A6,A7 holes.
> Love my new Hakko FX-888 Soldering Station and 4 tips, well worth the money.


I borrowed your idea and tweaked it slightly, by raising the PCB off the desk you can use the PCB itself as the guide without the need for stand offs.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

And some more build progress. I'm not using the standard EMW enclosure so my assembly is slightly different than the instructions. I'm building the enclosure around the heatsink, using the heatsink itself as part of the enclosure. I'm quite impressed by the physical layout of the high power pieces along with the driver board. It would be nice if the main control board was a bit more integrated or lined up nicer with the driver board since they have the most board to board wires. The overall layout of everything that mounts to the heatsink is very well done though and is a very efficient use of 3D space without limiting access to the mounting bolts for the IGBT's or rectifiers.
(Reminder, this is the air cooled PFC version of the charger)











The only "issue" I have with the kit is many of the parts don't fit the footprint on the PCB, I believe mine was one of the first kits so lets just hope I got leftovers from the previous design. Val, make sure you update to the proper components to fit the PCB and make assembly simpler and nicer.











I used my CNC router to drill markers holes for the main layout, the holes were then tapped as M4, M5 as required along with the shallow temp sensor hole. 











I made a small change to the diode block "wiring" I used a pair of 0.1875" x 0.5" x 0.9" copper blocks drilled with the appropriate holes to both mount to the diode block putting the two diodes in parallel as well as having a hole sized to the 8 Awg wire. This is where a good soldering iron comes in handy, a low power iron would not solder 8awg to a copper block. The legs on the Hall sensor are also too big for the PCB holes and must be trimmed down slightly to fit, don't take off too much material though!!











Instead of mounting the Inductors with the leads facing up I decided that one connection from each inductor could be soldered directly to the PCB. This simplifies assembly and will reduce the wiring a bit but it will slightly complicate servicing the power PCB if it's every required to replace an IGBT or something else.











Instead of the bent steel straps as per the instructions I decided to build a "beam" to clamp both inductors to the heatsink. This beam will also become the mounting point for the "top" of the enclosure as it's shown in the photo.
I made it the same length as the heatsink so the sides of the enclosure will bolt up to both the heatsink as well as the ends of the beam.











As you can see there is nothing fancy about the "beam" it is made up from some aluminium I had laying around. 1.25" x 0.125" C channel (1" internal) gives the perfect spacing to straddle the inductors without interfering with the wires. A piece of 1" x 0.5" and 1" x 0.375" bar stock fill in most of the channel so that it both sits on the inductors where I want it to and doesn't sit on the plastic part. I'll add some screws to the middle and ends to make it one piece so there should be minimal flex when it's tightened down to hold the inductors with the single center bolt.


IMAGE REMOVED BECAUSE IT SHOWED THE DRIVER BOARD INSTALLED BACKWARDS WHICH WILL BLOW UP YOUR PFC IGBT AND MANY OTHER SMALL PARTS!

And finally a general view from the other side with the driver board etc. Right now everything is dry fit for testing and assembly. Once I'm happy with the whole layout I'll be mounting everything permanently and using heatsink compound and loctite.

The final charger should be fairly compact at 10.25" x 7" x around 9.5 -10.5"











This is the initial rendering of the top panel, all of the "divots" would be through holes for airflow, the display and buttons would be front and center(ish), this would mount to the heatsink in the same orientation as the driver board with the heatsink fins open at the bottom. You will notice the drilled/tapped holes in the sides of the heatsink where all of these panels will attach.











This is the initial idea for the bottom panel, it would cover the full size of the heatsink with mounting for the fans with some through holes for wiring since the power brick would be mounted just above the fans in the open area. Since I have limited space two of the screws that mount the panel to the heatsink would be attached through the fans themselves.


One warning, when assembling the main power board be careful of the polarity of C11, there are two + signs within the circle the larger one is correct, the smaller one could throw you off. I had actually installed it backwards initially but caught it with a quick double check of the PCB file before soldering. This would be a big boom at some point!!

The one question I do have though is about PWM fan control, is this implemented already via the Fan out on the main control board or is that simply to control a relay to turn the fans on/off, if so what decides when to turn the fans on/off???


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> And some more build progress. I'm not using the standard EMW enclosure so my assembly is slightly different than the instructions. I'm building the enclosure around the heatsink, using the heatsink itself as part of the enclosure. I'm quite impressed by the physical layout of the high power pieces along with the driver board. It would be nice if the main control board was a bit more integrated or lined up nicer with the driver board since they have the most board to board wires. The overall layout of everything that mounts to the heatsink is very well done though and is a very efficient use of 3D space without limiting access to the mounting bolts for the IGBT's or rectifiers.
> (Reminder, this is the air cooled PFC version of the charger)
> 
> The one question I do have though is about PWM fan control, is this implemented already via the Fan out on the main control board or is that simply to control a relay to turn the fans on/off, if so what decides when to turn the fans on/off???


WOW this is such a nice build and GREAT photos - thanks for sharing!!

PWM Fan control is implemented but as-is it will drive fans with <1A total current. Depending on your fan config, this might or might not work. You can also always swap out the PN2222 transistor with a power FET (something like 10A 200V unit and then drive any fan combo with that. Just remember to take power for the fan before the 12V regulator or you will risk burning the regulator.

To simplify the assembly and make the unit more failsafe, in the fully built units we wire the fans to the 15V supply directly so that they are on whenever the charger is running. You could also run them in parallel to the input / output relay control for a bit finer control.

V


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> WOW this is such a nice build and GREAT photos - thanks for sharing!!
> 
> PWM Fan control is implemented but as-is it will drive fans with <1A total current. Depending on your fan config, this might or might not work. You can also always swap out the PN2222 transistor with a power FET (something like 10A 200V unit and then drive any fan combo with that. Just remember to take power for the fan before the 12V regulator or you will risk burning the regulator.
> 
> ...


Thanks!
Once I get the charger up and running I think I'll play with the different methods of powering the fans and see what works best. Ambient temp in my garage is typically 15-25C in the summer and 0-5C in the winter.

A bit more progress..










So this is the basic design made with V-Carve Pro (CAM software with some very basic CAD functions)











Aluminium panel after drilling marker holes. I don't have any coolant on the CNC machine so drilling through holes for this would overheat the drill bit and cause issues, so I stick with 0.05" deep marker holes.











After milling and engraving but before cleanup. 











Cleaned up, paint filled, buttons installed and the display sitting behind the cut out just to make sure the opening is large enough to view all of the text. The protective film is still on the display so there is some glare etc. The display is quite nice once the film is removed. As you can see my engraving depth wasn't perfect on the EMW 10kW part, this is due to slight overtightening of the mounting screw in the upper left corner. The table is MDF so this type of thing is somewhat hard to avoid on my DIY CNC Router. I also should have reduced the engraving depth of the button labels but it works.











Test fit on the enclosure to make sure my measurements were correct and there is enough clearance for the display and buttons. Looks good so far!

I have the fan mount panel also designed and the tool paths ready, I should be able to mill that this weekend as well. Then I have to decide on fan size (120mm x 25mm/38mm) to finalize the design of the side panels. This is important because the side panels are also the "legs" and will determine how far off the "floor" the fans sit for proper airflow.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

It's been a productive day, a bit more progress...










The fan bracket / bottom panel of the charger.












Some 120mm x 38mm fans for test fitting. I will probably go with 120mm x 25mm fans instead.











The basic shape of the charger is coming together nicely.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That's a really nice looking build. Maybe I should look into getting a CNC machine. But for anyone who does not have access to one, I have found an on-line source for specially milled and engraved panels such as this. I have used www.frontpanelexpress.com, and a panel like this might be about $50, and shipped within 2 weeks. They have their own design drafting software. 

Conversely, if you would be interested in some small quantity prototype and production panels, the company I do design engineering for might be interested. I can tell that you are conscientious and have excellent skills and quality. Maybe you can contact me by PM to discuss details, if you are interested.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Experiencing a bit of a weird problem with the charger. I have been using on street charge points quite a bit over the past few months. Most are limited to 16A at 230v and the charger has read the pilot signal and adjusted power to match with no problems. More powerful 32A charge points are being installed and last Sunday I attempted to use one. The charger calibrated correctly and began charging at full power ([email protected] on the dc side). However about 10 seconds later the charge point shut off power and displayed "current overload" on its display. Tried a few more times with same result. I contacted the power company and they kindly provided a log file from the charge point. Apparently the charger was drawing 42A from the supply. Now this didn't make any sense as I us a 32A circuit breaker in the charger and on my home power connection for the car and they have never tripped. 

Connected up a clamp on ammeter at home and started charging. 28.2A. Connected my UNI-T power analyser and got a 0.94pf and roughly the same power and current readings. Finally I tried a newer clamp on ammeter and it read 42A! Next tried a home energy meter which has a little split core CT and it claimed i was drawing 9kw. It also turns out the on street charge points derive current from an energy meter so it looks as if this is what is causing the problem. So I'm trying to figure out why this is happening. Any help much appreciated. 


@rwaudio very nice build indeed!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Many clamp-on ammeters do not respond to the DC component or distorted waveforms that may be caused by switching supplies, especially if they do not have adequate PF correction circuitry and line filters. But the DC component is a likely culprit. True RMS meters are a lot more expensive, generally $100 or more, and they can go out of calibration especially at zero reading.

It would be helpful to see a scope display of the waveform. And also a schematic or basic conceptual drawing of main components, switching frequency, etc. It's not too surprising that a 32 amp circuit breaker did not trip on 42 amps. They are generally designed to NOT trip at the 32 amp rating and are guaranteed to trip at maybe 125% of rating, or 40 amps, within a time frame up to an hour. The trip current and time may also be affected by temperature and other factors.

The 9 kW seems reasonable since 230V and 42 amps at 94% PF is 9.08 kW. I haven't closely followed the entire thread but I'll see what I can do to help if you provide a link to the appropriate documents. Open source is great!

OK, I found the schematic and converted it to a PNG image and PDF:










I'm not sure exactly what you are doing with the PWM but it appears to be a basic inductive current mode buck converter. There may be a problem with reading the output current accurately since the LEM module output is simply filtered to the average DC level, while RMS may be different. But the output appears to be well filtered with 1000 uF so the waveform may be close to pure DC. And I'm not sure how the LM211 creates the PWM signal, although obviously it changes the duty cycle based on output current. I assume also that the voltage module tells the processor when the desired float voltage has been reached and throttles back the PWM to maintain that level. Just thinking and typing and tossing ideas into the ring. Obviously it works and the purpose of analyzing the circuit is to determine what might be causing your problem. OK, enough for now. I just need to get more familiar with the circuit and the application.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks Paul. I hooked the scope up to the current transformer in the energy meter. Waveform photos attached. I connected a 2kw electric kettle as a comparison and the current waveform is a sine. The charger does have a line filter but no pfc frontend.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> I hooked the scope up to the current transformer in the energy meter. Waveform photos attached.


Right. Well, the problem is pretty obvious, isn't it? The current is nowhere near sinusoidal, so it's nowhere near unity power factor. In fact, it's nowhere near 0.94 either. The line filter has knocked the worst spikiness off the current waveform, but it's still really poor power factor.

I see that the charger waveform is at 10x the volts per division of the jug. Assuming a 2000 W jug and 240 V mains, I figure the RMS jug current to be 8.3 A, or 11.8 A peak to zero (so 23.6 A peak to peak, but it's easier to use peak to zero here). So that's about 5.9 A per division. So on the charger trace, each division would represent about 59 A, assuming the same current transformer is used. So the charger is drawing peaks of around 89 A. This is the same peak current that 63 A RMS would have; the charge point said 42 A so that would imply a power factor of around 0.67, if that maths is valid (and it seems pretty dodgy). 0.67 is about right for a diode capacitor load with minimal filtering.

I've seen it asked: "what's the advantage of power factor correction?". Well, this is the very reason: so that supplies that are sensitive to power factor / harmonic distortion can be used. The 89 A peaks in the current heat the wiring a lot more than 32 A RMS peaks would (peaking at abut 45 A); remember that cable heating is proportional to the square of the current. 89^2 is almost 4 times higher than 45^2. This more than compensates for the fact that the 89 A pulses don't last all that long. So that's why the charge point is pedantic about power factor: it's effectively saying "it's expensive enough to supply a sine wave at 32 A with 45 A peaks; don't ask me to supply 89 A peaks, so I won't do it for more than 10 seconds". I'm actually surprised that your 32 A circuit breaker in the charger doesn't shut off after less than an hour as well.

My apologies if some of my assumptions are off, but I think that the basic result is clear: the charger (without the PFC stage) has a poor power factor.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks Coulomb. Certainly makes a bit more sense now. Guess I'm a slow learner Solved the problem for the short term by reducing the maximum output power on the DC side by 5A. Not a great loss in charge time and had a dramatic effect on the ac input current. 

Would this effect be as problematic on a 3 phase input?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> That's a really nice looking build. Maybe I should look into getting a CNC machine. But for anyone who does not have access to one, I have found an on-line source for specially milled and engraved panels such as this. I have used www.frontpanelexpress.com, and a panel like this might be about $50, and shipped within 2 weeks. They have their own design drafting software.
> 
> Conversely, if you would be interested in some small quantity prototype and production panels, the company I do design engineering for might be interested. I can tell that you are conscientious and have excellent skills and quality. Maybe you can contact me by PM to discuss details, if you are interested.


Thanks for the comments, I can't take on any more side jobs right now or it'll take me another year to finish my conversion.



jackbauer said:


> @rwaudio very nice build indeed!


Thanks jackbauer, I've taken a lot of inspiration from both your charger and controller builds.



jackbauer said:


> Thanks Coulomb. Certainly makes a bit more sense now. Guess I'm a slow learner Solved the problem for the short term by reducing the maximum output power on the DC side by 5A. Not a great loss in charge time and had a dramatic effect on the ac input current.
> 
> Would this effect be as problematic on a 3 phase input?


Just out of curiosity does the internal current measurement for input/output as measured bye the charger match what your hand held meters were reflecting? (Even if it's not an accurate absolute value) Does this new info and problem affect what you believe the power factor to be on the charger?

A good portion of my charging will be off of 120v 15A when I'm at work or at a friends house etc. So it's pretty important to not blow breakers in this situation.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I did a quick simulation of your basic charger circuit, and the input current waveform looks very much like your scope traces:








The problem is the inrush current of the capacitors, which is limited by the 0.5 ohm resistor, but still is almost 100 amps. The resistor dissipates almost 1000 watts of power even at this output of about 6.6 kW, so that kills your efficiency. The input current is 44A RMS at 223 VRMS, which is 9.8 kVA, and the actual power is 7.87 kW, so your power factor is 0.80.

Now see what happens if you remove the resistor and add a 2mH inductor after the rectifiers:








The charging peaks have been reduced to 69 amps, and the output voltage has been reduced to about 250 VDC, so the output power is now 6.37kW. But the input current is 35 amps RMS, which at 223 VAC is 7.8 kVA, while actual power is 6.41 kW. This is still 82% PF, but your output power is 6.36 kW, so your efficiency is 99%.

Changing the output inductor to 20 mH reduces the output voltage to about 200 V, so you only get 3.89 kW into the same 10 ohm load, but now your input current peaks are only 27A and RMS current is 20A, so input VA is 4460 and PF is 87%.

The ASC files for the simulations are on my website page at:
http://www.enginuitysystems.com/pix/
You can also reduce the output capacitors to 1000 uF if you can tolerate 47V P-P of ripple out of 200VDC. I don't know about LiPo cells, but many battery chargers have a lot of ripple and are essentially unfiltered. 

The simulation also gives good results using a 4 ohm resistive load for about 50 amps and nearly 10kVA. And it has 91% PF under those conditions.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

PStechPaul said:


> The problem is the inrush current of the capacitors, which is limited by the 0.5 ohm resistor, but still is almost 100 amps.


The inrush resistors help reduce current peaks during operation? That I did not know. I took them out and went with precharging the caps during startup.
This would help explain why I can't get more than about 10 amps (indicated) out of a 15 amp circuit without popping the breaker.

Is it just a matter of adding the inductor after the rectifier? No other changes to the circuit required as a result of that?
Like this one?:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RB8522-25-2M0/817-1676-ND/3125495

Now I just need to find a place to stuff a large inductor in my little box.

Thanks much


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't use the PTC inrush suppressor anymore having changed to a precharge resistor and contactor. I use a 4700uf cap on the input rectifier and another on the dc output. Just trying to understand all this. The current spikes are caused by the bus capacitor charging when the mains voltage increases above the (decreasing) cap voltage? Thus , when the charger is running harder the spikes are more pronounced. Now if we add an inductor between the rectifier and bus cap / charger circuit it acts to smooth out the pulses. Is that the idea?


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> would the effect be as pronounced on a 3 phase input?


No. DC ripple with three phase is only 6%. A simple line filter is all that is required. 

Phone misbehaving.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Thus , when the charger is running harder the spikes are more pronounced. Now if we add an inductor between the rectifier and bus cap / charger circuit it acts to smooth out the pulses. Is that the idea?


Yes. The inductor might be better in series with the mains.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The inductor you showed from DigiKey should do the job, although it is only rated for 25 amps. Two in parallel will give you the 50 amp rating but the combined inductance will be cut in half to 1 mH. It might help, but not a whole lot. The 20mH inductor really did the job nicely, and it allowed the reduction of the output capacitors, but such an inductor will be fairly large and heavy and expensive. Like this:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/inductors-coils-chokes/fixed/196627?k=CH-50

This might be a good choice, as it will handle over 50A with forced air cooling. It's 1.5 mH so you may need two in series:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSe...go&lang=en&keywords=RB8522-36&x=0&y=0&cur=USD

The precharge resistor might be a good idea. The initial surge current for a simulation with 3mH and the 10,000 uF capacitors is 300A for 9 mSec.

Here is a simulation for a precharge system which limits the peaks to under 100 amps. There is one at the beginning and another when the precharge resistor is shorted out by the relay when the voltage reaches about 200V:









BTW, I found a pretty good article on the SMPS: http://www.ecircuitcenter.com/Circuits/smps_buck/smps_buck.htm


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Last picture for awhile...

This gives a better idea of the overall design. It's meant to "stand up" like this with the fans blowing up. Dimensions of the enclosure are 7 1/8" x 10 1/4" x 10 9/16". The maximum dimensions with buttons, terminals and feet will be 8" x 10 1/4" x 11" (different shape but smaller in volume than a 4kw Elcon)










There will be about 1 1/2" between the fans and the bottom of the battery box where this will be mounted. Hopefully that provides enough airflow using a pair of 75-100cfm fans.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just mulling something around in my head here. Wouldn't it be possible to build the charger with a pfc front end for single phase and a rectifier / filter for 3 phase? Best of both worlds. Just feed the dc input of the buck stage from either source.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Just mulling something around in my head here. Wouldn't it be possible to build the charger with a pfc front end for single phase and a rectifier / filter for 3 phase? Best of both worlds. Just feed the dc input of the buck stage from either source.


Sounds ok to me, except you'd need a large switch, and you'd want to make sure that you never switched the high DC voltage while under load. So really for the few percent of efficiency that you gain, it would be easier to have the PFC stage there all the time, with six diodes on the input, and just feed into any pair of 3-phase inputs when you have single phase.

Huh, maybe you could put the six 3-phase diodes after the PFC stage, and arrange another diode so that DC doesn't get fed to the output of the PFC stage when you are using 3-phase. You'd want to be careful that you don't have a 3-phase plug of some sort that you could get a shock from when using single phase input; in theory the diodes would prevent current at the 3-phase inputs, but I'd bet there would be enough current from leakage and capacitance across the diode junctions to give a nasty shock.

The three phase filter would be between the 3-phase input and the 6-diode bridge.

So there are some safety / practicality issues to think through, but it might be doable.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

rwaudio said:


> Last picture for awhile...
> 
> This gives a better idea of the overall design. It's meant to "stand up" like this with the fans blowing up. Dimensions of the enclosure are 7 1/8" x 10 1/4" x 10 9/16". The maximum dimensions with buttons, terminals and feet will be 8" x 10 1/4" x 11" (different shape but smaller in volume than a 4kw Elcon)
> 
> There will be about 1 1/2" between the fans and the bottom of the battery box where this will be mounted. Hopefully that provides enough airflow using a pair of 75-100cfm fans.


 Looks very nice! Thanks for the build photos. Edit: any reason one couldn't rotate that top panel 180 degree and mount it with the 7 1/8" dimension vertical (fins up)?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> Looks very nice! Thanks for the build photos. Edit: any reason one couldn't rotate that top panel 180 degree and mount it with the 7 1/8" dimension vertical (fins up)?


None at all, as long as some care was taken to make sure the display/switches don't interfere with the driver board, it's pretty tight in that area.

I will be bringing out the AC and battery wiring through the face that would become the bottom though, so it would probably be desirable to bring out the wiring through the display/switch side and engrave accordingly.

If doing that the 11" dimension would be reduced to 8 5/8 + fans.

This charger didn't exist when I designed my battery box and it was a late decision to go with it so my build is an adaptation to fit a very specific shape/size/airflow.

If I was designing an enclosure for a more mainstream flat mounting with heat sink up it would look quite different.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

From my simulations and experience, I can see that power factor correction, or PFC, is important, and perhaps even more so than I had originally considered. The problem is, essentially, that a single phase AC source has zero crossings during which time no usable power can be extracted. So, in order to maintain a constant output voltage (or current), energy must be stored. 

Inductors store energy in the form of current and a magnetic field, so they are best used where a fairly constant current must be maintained. But their operation during times of near zero crossing of the power source involve inductive spikes and high voltages, and/or fast operating diodes and other semiconductors to handle this, or snubbers which can waste energy. Inductors tend to be expensive and heavy, especially for high currents and low frequency. 

Capacitors are generally the preferred means of storing energy, and they are generally inexpensive and lightweight. They store energy in the form of voltage, so they are ideal where a fairly constant voltage is needed and where the load may draw surges of high current. But the storage of energy requires a high charging current during much of the higher voltage portions of an AC power supply, and without current limiting, the current can be extremely high and is limited mostly by the impedance of the power source and the capacity of the wiring and protective devices such as fuses and circuit breakers. These high current surges into capacitors cause current distortion and low power factor, which means that the current may be much higher than it would be for the same power resistive load. 

There is an interesting article on PFC techniques I found at:
http://cktse.eie.polyu.edu.hk/Tse-IEEElecture2.pdf

I need to absorb some of that information and then maybe make some proposals on possible design improvements using PFC. I may need to rethink some of the suggestions I have made for using a simple inductor, and/or a precharge resistor.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> From my simulations and experience, I can see that power factor correction, or PFC, is important, and perhaps even more so than I had originally considered. The problem is, essentially, that a single phase AC source has zero crossings during which time no usable power can be extracted. So, in order to maintain a constant output voltage (or current), energy must be stored.
> 
> Inductors store energy in the form of current and a magnetic field, so they are best used where a fairly constant current must be maintained. But their operation during times of near zero crossing of the power source involve inductive spikes and high voltages, and/or fast operating diodes and other semiconductors to handle this, or snubbers which can waste energy. Inductors tend to be expensive and heavy, especially for high currents and low frequency.
> 
> ...


There is already a PFC version of the charger available, have a look at what Valery has already done with the design and perhaps there's some improvements you can recommend.


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## mckemie (Aug 22, 2007)

mckemie said:


> I've been getting a bad feeling about my charger order. Here is the situation:
> 1) I placed an order and paid via PayPal April 18
> 2) I exchanged emails with Valery April 19
> 3) On April 20, I posed a few questions, including shipping date, but got no response.
> ...


I did finally receive the charger a few weeks ago; mid-June, I guess. Charger seems to work, but I haven't thoroughly exercised it. I struggled to get the external wiring done. One of the problems is that the outside screw terminal strip is too small for the needed wire and lugs. Finally used 8ga for the battery side and 10ga for the ac side and filed down some lugs. When attached to the screw terminal strip, the wires are uncomfortably close to one another.

I wonder if the charger can be used as a DC-DC? I am experimenting using a surplus UPS to provide backup 240vac from my car battery. Typical battery voltage is 160v (48 cells) while the UPS apparently wants at least 167v. So, I wonder if the charger could be used to stepup 150-160vdc to 170-200vdc?


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

the design is a Buck converter, which means the input has to be higher than the output.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

mckemie said:


> I wonder if the charger can be used as a DC-DC? I am experimenting using a surplus UPS to provide backup 240vac from my car battery. Typical battery voltage is 160v (48 cells) while the UPS apparently wants at least 167v. So, I wonder if the charger could be used to stepup 150-160vdc to 170-200vdc?


the PFC version can be rewired to do that since it has a booster stage inside, non-PFC version can't. 

A couple of solutions I see:

1. Add a few cells to your car. Probably hard to do

2. Add an off-car 12V battery in series to your car's battery whenever you want to power your house with your car. Since the UPS is stationary, you can permanently mount the battery there and hook it up to a separate 12V charger that will keep the battery in charged state. If you size that 12V battery so that it has a higher capacity than your car pack, you will never completely run it down when it's in series with the pack. Note that your pack voltage won't be 160V under load - both due to the current draw and due to sag from dropping SoC. This will be especially important if your ambient temps drop below 10C. I would probably design for 2.9-3.0V cell voltage, which means you would have a shortage of 167-139V = 28V. Perhaps you could get away with 2 12V batteries.

3. Build a booster (similar design to the PFC stage of our charger). Most flexible but probably most expensive solution. 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## mckemie (Aug 22, 2007)

valerun said:


> the PFC version can be rewired to do that since it has a booster stage inside, non-PFC version can't.
> 
> A couple of solutions I see:
> 
> ...


Could a PFC charger be configured to boost dc AND serve as a charger with minor "switch from one to the other" effort?

I am planning to do 2) above to test the UPS. I have the UPS hooked to the battery with a SB50 cable (where I would otherwise plug in a charger) so I could easily assemble a SB50 cable with several cells stuck in the middle of the + conductor. I do have several extra cells. I can't really see getting those cells in the car. I have 260ah cells so using lead 12v batteries doesn't seem attractive; I would have to have two or more in parallel.

The anticipated current demands of the UPS are small compared to the cell size. Maybe 1/20-1/5 C. So, I anticipate almost no sag.

Such a lash up would be for testing only. For "real" use I would have to figure out how to use the BMS to cut the load in the event of a low single cell and also extend the bms to the extra cells.

Thanks for the comments!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

A booster might be the easiest solution. Get an isolated 24 VDC switching supply and run it from the car battery pack 150 VDC. If you need 1500 watts, that's 10 amps at 150 VDC. But the booster will only need to add 24 VDC at 10 amps. So a 240 watt supply is all you need. Probably less than $50.  Here ya go:
http://www.mpja.com/24V-10A-Hengfu-Power-Supply/productinfo/18436+PS/


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## mckemie (Aug 22, 2007)

PStechPaul said:


> A booster might be the easiest solution. Get an isolated 24 VDC switching supply and run it from the car battery pack 150 VDC. If you need 1500 watts, that's 10 amps at 150 VDC. But the booster will only need to add 24 VDC at 10 amps. So a 240 watt supply is all you need. Probably less than $50.  Here ya go:
> http://www.mpja.com/24V-10A-Hengfu-Power-Supply/productinfo/18436+PS/


An interesting concept. I'm not an electronics guy, so that is new to me.
I'm looking for around 50 amps so I guess I could use five in parallel to each other and in series with the battery input to the UPS. The above product indicates that it might not operate on DC: voltage range switch selectable, 47-63hz. I do know that some power supplies will operate on DC input, but I'm not sure how to identify them.
Here is the UPS:
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SURT5000XLT


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The UPS is rated 3500 watts, so that would be about 21 amps at 160V. It's usually not a good idea to parallel power supplies. But series connection is fine. So here's a 12V 25 amp supply for $100:
http://www.mpja.com/12V-25A-Hengfu-Power-Supply/productinfo/16488+PS/

It's rated 85-132 VAC so the equivalent DC is 120-186 VDC so your 160 VDC pack voltage is perfect. The first thing a switching supply does is convert the AC to DC with a bridge rectifier and capacitor. It is possible that the rectifiers could be underrated for the equivalent DC, but that's unlikely. The only thing that might cause a problem is the initial surge connecting your battery pack to the supply. So maybe a precharge resistor would be a good idea. Just add an 8 ohm resistor which will limit the surge to 20 amps, and add a 12V power relay to the output so it pulls in when the 12VDC comes up and switches out (shorts) the power resistor. 

Your system might work with just the 12V boost. Otherwise add another in series. And it's a good idea to have the output of the UPS disconnected from the load when you first apply battery power. This will limit the inrush and avoid instability or blown fuses (you WILL have fuses, won't you?)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> The UPS is rated 3500 watts, so that would be about 21 amps at 160V. It's usually not a good idea to parallel power supplies. But series connection is fine. So here's a 12V 25 amp supply for $100:
> http://www.mpja.com/12V-25A-Hengfu-Power-Supply/productinfo/16488+PS/
> 
> It's rated 85-132 VAC so the equivalent DC is 120-186 VDC so your 160 VDC pack voltage is perfect. The first thing a switching supply does is convert the AC to DC with a bridge rectifier and capacitor. It is possible that the rectifiers could be underrated for the equivalent DC, but that's unlikely. The only thing that might cause a problem is the initial surge connecting your battery pack to the supply. So maybe a precharge resistor would be a good idea. Just add an 8 ohm resistor which will limit the surge to 20 amps, and add a 12V power relay to the output so it pulls in when the 12VDC comes up and switches out (shorts) the power resistor.
> ...


clever. yes, this is probably better than my idea with the 12V batteries...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

R&D update: 
We have just finished development of the first version of a 10kW DC-DC booster. 

Partially based on our PFC stage design, it allows to use lower-voltage DC supply to charge a higher-voltage battery. 

Potential uses include portable EV 'jumpers', EV range extenders, interfacing to lower voltage solar panel bank, etc. 

Input voltage: 10-400V
Output voltage: 10-400V (has to be higher than input)
Max input current: 100A
Max output current: 100A
Max power: 10kW

Combined with our PFC stage and buck charger designs, this completes our 3-piece power conversion system. Now we can convert DC or AC power at any voltage to DC power at any voltage.

Next up is isolated version of the PFC stage.

Let me know if questions.

Thanks for your continued support!
Valery & team.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'd be interested in knowing the topology for your DC-DC boost converter. I'm assuming it's a forward boost converter running at 100 kHz or so with a large ferrite inductor. Can it produce 320 VDC from 24 VDC? I'm working on a 1.0 to 2.0 kW version using a center tapped push-pull transformer circuit. My latest simulation shows over 98% efficiency but probably 95% will be more realistic. I figure it could be built for under $100 at least for a DIY version. I'll probably make mine open-source as well. Do you have updated schematics, BOM and specifications? Good job!


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Sounds cool. I've always wanted to have some solar charging on-board but can't fit enough cells to hit the pack voltage +50% that is typically used. What's the efficiency?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> R&D update:
> We have just finished development of the first version of a 10kW DC-DC booster.
> 
> Partially based on our PFC stage design, it allows to use lower-voltage DC supply to charge a higher-voltage battery.
> ...


I guess that makes DC fast charging from 480VAC work fairly well for the 600+V packs you plan to use. Each electron transferred at high potential, lots of energy per electron, so not as much charge need be transferred to transfer a given amount of energy to the pack. Then 100A charging can give a charge to 80% SOC fairly quickly. Need cells with high C rate though for larger discharge currents, and they need to be able to charge at 2C or so and discharge at 3 or 4C continuous (depending on cell size) with 3000 or more cycle life. Could have 640V, 60Ah for 38kWh pack and charge from 20% SOC to 80% SOC in about 20 minutes, 36 minutes for same charge for a 64kWh pack. That would sure make ev's more appealing to a wider group.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Sounds cool. I've always wanted to have some solar charging on-board but can't fit enough cells to hit the pack voltage +50% that is typically used. What's the efficiency?


Haven't measured efficiency yet but since it's a single-stage, should be pretty good for low Vout:Vin ratios (2-4). Will measure later this week and post.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I'm working on a 1.0 to 2.0 kW version using a center tapped push-pull transformer circuit. My latest simulation shows over 98% efficiency but probably 95% will be more realistic. I figure it could be built for under $100 at least for a DIY version. I'll probably make mine open-source as well. Do you have updated schematics, BOM and specifications? Good job!


I'm also really interested by a DIY 120v 1.5 Kw charger. 
Let me know if you start your own thread about a low power DIY charger. 
Thanks.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yabert said:


> I'm also really interested by a DIY 120v 1.5 Kw charger.
> Let me know if you start your own thread about a low power DIY charger.
> Thanks.


I don't think he is talking about a charger, though... I think he's talking about a booster.

On the charger side, the $100 cost target is not likely to be achievable due to the requirement for the microprocessor control of the charging profile. If you want to be able to program the charger without re-uploading firmware every time, you will also need interface. These things add over $100 just in parts costs (in bulk pricing!).

It will sound like heresy but my suggestion for a low-power 120V charger (1-1.5kW) would actually be to just build a voltage doubler with caps sized to provide the voltage profile to meet your target level of power. You would then connect that directly to your battery (has to be above ~150V for this hack to work). You complete that by adding a 20A 120VAC relay on the input and adding a simple comparator-FET switch that would turn off the relay once the target voltage has been achieved. Something like that. Note that none of this has been tested in any way ;-)


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Oh!... (Translation problem)...
Thanks Valerun for the tips.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yabert said:


> Oh!... (Translation problem)...
> Thanks Valerun for the tips.


no problem. maybe I should just draw up and test a circuit for the minimalistic low-power charger I described earlier... THAT unit could be close to $100 in parts costs..


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

Go Valerun ,
A lot of people, me included, don't need a high power charger, and end up with one from China, because the low power, low cost options don't exist here.
Joe


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't really know the specifications required for chargers of this type, but it is very easy and inexpensive to make a voltage doubler circuit to get about 300 VDC from 120 VAC mains. Just about every switching supply does that as a first order of business (or design). Assuming you can draw no more than 15 amps from the usual receptacle, you will be limited to about 1800W. With 240V and 30A, usually available at the breaker box, you can get 7200W. 

Most people have 100A or 200A service, so there is an apparent maximum of 48 kW, but in reality, the transformer serving as many as 10 or more homes is typically rated about 50 kW. So it's OK to max out if you're the only one doing it, but if everybody does, it won't work unless the utility does a major upgrade.

As far as programming a charger for optimum charging profiles, PICs are cheap, even with USB interface, so making changes and keeping track of the charging is as simple as keeping data in the EEPROM and/or using the PC to modify the charging profile for your needs.

I don't see any problem making a good $50 or $100 charger.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I don't see any problem making a good $50 or $100 charger.


yes, before you actually start adding the costs 

The caps alone will cost you close to $100 for a 7kW version... Heatsink... fans... AC adapter (because you cannot connect 12V car battery ground to the HV ground)... box (these are surprisingly expensive actually - another >$50 item)... 30A relay... 

So, while it can be done cheaper by sacrificing flexibility and control, there's a real lower bound on the costs which is nowhere near $100...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I don't really know the specifications required for chargers of this type, but it is very easy and inexpensive to make a voltage doubler circuit to get about 300 VDC from 120 VAC mains.


yes, this is the design of the input part of the non-PFC version of our charger. The tradeoff is lower power factor which does not have a noticeable effect at low power but will limit the amount of power you can draw from a given circuit due to higher peak currents. So you will likely be able to draw only 1200-1500W from a 120VAC source and maybe 5kW from a 240VAC 30A circuit before the breakers trip...

V


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> yes, before you actually start adding the costs
> 
> The caps alone will cost you close to $100 for a 7kW version... Heatsink... fans... AC adapter (because you cannot connect 12V car battery ground to the HV ground)... box (these are surprisingly expensive actually - another >$50 item)... 30A relay...
> 
> So, while it can be done cheaper by sacrificing flexibility and control, there's a real lower bound on the costs which is nowhere near $100...


I didn't consider the ground problem. On 120VAC mains you can keep the neutral reference and have it non-isolated, but not 240 VAC. However, you could use a 3 or 4 wire system with neutral, and run two doublers in parallel off the hot lines.

The power factor might be solved by eliminating the capacitors and just current limiting the peaks above the battery voltage. For a 200 volt battery pack on 240 VAC the duty cycle is something like 50%. For lower voltage packs the duty cycle would be greater.

I also tried a simulation of a "poor man's charger" using only capacitors and rectifiers. This works on 240 VAC and provides 6 amps out into a 250V battery pack with 10 ohms internal resistance. The actual output power is 1815 watts with input power of 1878 watts for an efficiency of 96.6% (YMMV - this depends on the capacitor ESR), but input VA is 3840, so PF is poor. But that's why it's called a poor man's...










Note that the negative of the battery is at power line ground. You can remove the entire bottom half and run this on 120 VAC for 5.3 amps out and 27 amps in, so you'd need to use smaller capacitors (3000 uF) and get 3.8 amps charge from 18 amps at 120 VAC. But that's still a 1000 watt charger that will fit in a lunchbox and only dissipate 85 watts. 

Also, there is no regulation or charge profile, but the charge does taper off as the battery voltage comes up. You could probably plug this into a Powerstat and adjust it so that the float voltage would be close to what is recommended. Just some crazy ideas to play around with!


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

valerun said:


> no problem. maybe I should just draw up and test a circuit for the minimalistic low-power charger I described earlier... THAT unit could be close to $100 in parts costs..


Absolutely!

Like JoeG said, many of us are limited to 1800w power (120v 15A) or simply don't need high power charger. 
A simple minimalistic low-power charger will be very welcome.
I think a fix output voltage can be acceptable if this simplifie the design and lowered the cost.


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## mckemie (Aug 22, 2007)

Yabert said:


> I think a fix output voltage can be acceptable if this simplifie the design and lowered the cost.


A charger that does 165-175v will serve nicely for 48 cells and probably for 45 and maybe for as few as 40 if your BMS cuts the power to the charger.

Some while ago, I added 3 cells to my 45 cell pack and also switched to low voltage miniBMS modules. I was somewhat surprised that my old KingPan and Elcon chargers continued to serve well. My Zivan wanted lower voltage to start.


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## mckemie (Aug 22, 2007)

mckemie said:


> I did finally receive the charger a few weeks ago; mid-June, I guess. Charger seems to work, but I haven't thoroughly exercised it. I struggled to get the external wiring done. One of the problems is that the outside screw terminal strip is too small for the needed wire and lugs. Finally used 8ga for the battery side and 10ga for the ac side and filed down some lugs. When attached to the screw terminal strip, the wires are uncomfortably close to one another.


After some experience using the charger, I offer the following:
1) I started with mostly 10ga wiring. After finding too much heat in the cables, I went to 8ga. I still can't use full power for very long so I'm searching for suitable 6ga wire. It seems a 10kw charger really needs at least 6ga. As noted above, the screw terminal strip is too small to nicely accommodate such large wire. It would be nice if the terminal strip had some protection against accidental touching.
2) The software that uses the display uses four colors. Two of those colors, red and blue as I recall, have poor contrast. At least, to my eyes.
3) The charger won't run on 120vac the way I have it wired. The other chargers I use take either 240 or 120 on the same two wires; I have an adapter cable at the vehicle inlet (upstream of the BMS relays) that is used to supply 120vac when desired. The 10kw charger apparently wants to get it's 120 off of different terminals. Since the ac power runs through BMS controlled relays, it is not at all convenient to retain BMS control for both 120 and 240. I wonder if the odd 120v terminal on the charger should be jumped to one of the 240v terminals?
4) The software at times refers to right or left buttons. While viewing the display, those directions are reversed. That is, the "right" button is on the left side. Or vice versa.

Other than the above, the charger has worked nicely with no problems. I have used it for short periods of time in parallel with an isolated Elcon charger. I have hopes of eventually charging at close to 60 battery amps with two chargers. I use about 1.7 ah/mile, so that would be around 35 mph. Woo Hoo! I used to think that 10-15mph was a high charging rate.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

zsnemeth said:


> What I'd prefer, is not really a basic charger but a low power one.
> 
> Ok, here is my list:
> - 1500-2000W 110-220V dual voltage or selectable
> ...


the problem with this setup is that it will cost the same as Chinese 1.5kW chargers that work fine for 95% of people (e.g., http://evsource.com/tls_HFPFC_1_5KW.php unit for $560 retail...). 5% of people who need programmable low-power charger with bells and whistles won't be enough to make economic sense for anyone to develop such a product... 

So the meaningful opportunity in my opinion lies in 2 extreme areas: 
1. High-power (10kW+) charger with all bells and whistles at substantially lower price than alternative. This is our charger
2. Low-power (1.5-2kW) bare-bones charger discussed in the last few posts. If can be made for ~50% of the abovementioned $560 chinese charger, this could be a large-volume product, thereby offsetting time / $ investment into R&D around it. And yes, even for such a design, I estimate ~2 months of work getting it to perform just like you want it - across multiple battery voltages, capacities, thermal conditions, etc.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Valerun,

How difficult would it be to make your charger, a balance charger for Lipo? I am going to run this charger either way, but it sure would be nice if it balanced. Here is the quick specs on my pack. 111v nominal 30ah can handle 5C charge here is my pack build ( http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/lipo-pack-build-76807.html )

EDIT: I have been advised that this would not be useful or necessary 

Thanks,


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

winzeracer said:


> Valerun,
> 
> How difficult would it be to make your charger, a balance charger for Lipo? I am going to run this charger either way, but it sure would be nice if it balanced. Here is the quick specs on my pack. 111v nominal 30ah can handle 5C charge here is my pack build ( http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/lipo-pack-build-76807.html )
> 
> ...


I'm sure Valerun will explain "why" this can't be done, but having built one of these chargers I can say it's not possible based on the current design. You would be better off with a string of RC type chargers (if any of them are isolated that is) that already do balancing, it would be difficult to get near the same power level and efficiency though.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I'm sure Valerun will explain "why" this can't be done, but having built one of these chargers I can say it's not possible based on the current design. You would be better off with a string of RC type chargers (if any of them are isolated that is) that already do balancing, it would be difficult to get near the same power level and efficiency though.


Thanks Robin for jumping in here.

The easiest way to do this is to get BMS for each cell and let them do the balancing. miniBMS work well.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

update on charger:

1. Efficiency of the charger has been tested a bit more thoroughly. The range is from ~90% at 110VAC 1.5kW to 96% at 230 VAC 10kW. This is for the PFC version, with power factor better than 0.97. So pretty good.

2. We have changed the design of the inductors (to big toroids). As a result, we now are successfully testing 80A continuous outputs at up to 15kW. With high-power fans (~20W total), getting heatsink temps at just 30C over ambient

3. Implemented gradual temperature derating: starting to reduce the output current at 55C linearly to zero output at 85C (heatsink temp).

4. Testing smaller & lighter heatsinks. Again, with high-power fans can get away with half the surface area. So can fit the PFC version into a 10x10x8" box.

Happy to answer any questions. 

As usual, more into on kits and chargers is available at http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery can you make a few things more clear in the build notes below:

Button:

iii. Connect a normally closed button between 2 horizontal vias on top of the vertical LCD connector – below the top 6-pin row of Arduino mounting pins 

This is the last and only mention of this button, I suppose it might be a reset button or for some other purpose, but you can't tell from the instructions

Wiring in the AC adapter:
*9. Prepare the off-board components. *Note that connectors are best made out of Pololu wires and connector housings (http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/71 , http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/70 – note that these are not included in kits).
a. Cut AC adapter’s cord at 12” from the adapter; solder one line input wire to Out “-“ copper bracket on the doubler board, another line input wire – to Out “-“ bracket.

This sounds like you are saying to wire both input leads to the AC adapter to the same place, where is the second input line actually supposed to be attached to?

J1772 connections:

v. BMS/EOC/J1772 connector. Split wires between a 3-pin and 4-pin connectors. Solder other ends to a 7-pin round connector. 

This is all you say on how this charger might interface or connect to a J1772 system

Some sort of wiring diagram for these small harnesses is needed.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery can you make a few things more clear in the build notes below:
> 
> Button:
> 
> ...


Thanks Zak for correcting us! We have updated and re-uploaded build instructions to our site.

Valery.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

Hey Valery,

I've sent you a couple of PMs over the last 2 weeks, could you please respond to them? 
In the PMs I sent you I had 3 small questions regarding the build instructions, so if you wanted to answer them on here that would benefit everyone.

Also, where is everyone getting their build instructions from?
I can't seem to find the build instructions on the actual site, I have to go via a link that you posted a while back. 
Could you post a link to the instructions?

Thanks!


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,

Since the Arduino came with no headers attached to it, I can assume that it also came with no sketch installed in it as recieved in the kit?

Can the Arduino be programmed while removed from the charger and then installed in place?

Thanks,
Zak


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Valery,
> 
> Since the Arduino came with no headers attached to it, I can assume that it also came with no sketch installed in it as recieved in the kit?
> 
> ...


As part of the instructions, it says to load the most recent code. I didn't confirm, but you are likely correct that it comes without the sketch installed. You can remove the arduino, program it and reinstall it in the charger. This is what I did as well. 

How close are you to power up and testing?


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Robin,

I'm getting closer, attaching the big wires, outputs etc. After I get that done I'll do the smaller sub harnesses. I think I'm done with milling on the case. Things are looking good on the layout and construction after I get it powered up I'll post a series of pictures of the build. Box size is 8" x 6-1/2" x 14". Internal 2 pole breaker, 15v power supply, SB50 as well as 1/4 stud outputs, screen easily removeable so it can be transfered to the dash of the car.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> Hey Valery,
> 
> I've sent you a couple of PMs over the last 2 weeks, could you please respond to them?
> In the PMs I sent you I had 3 small questions regarding the build instructions, so if you wanted to answer them on here that would benefit everyone.
> ...


The instructions are at the same link: http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7

Will get to PMs now. The PM system here is really not the best comm tool as I don't get any notifications on my email when I get those.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Valery,
> 
> Since the Arduino came with no headers attached to it, I can assume that it also came with no sketch installed in it as recieved in the kit?
> 
> ...


Yes and Yes.

It can also be programmed in-circuit - this is what the headers are for on the top of the arduino placement on the control board. In our fully built units, we are using them to wire an outside programming connector.

V


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

valerun said:


> The instructions are at the same link: http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7
> 
> Will get to PMs now. The PM system here is really not the best comm tool as I don't get any notifications on my email when I get those.
> 
> V


Valerun,

You can setup email notification for PMs, i had the same prob, just goto your settings.

What modifications are needed for 100amp charging?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

winzeracer said:


> Valerun,
> 
> You can setup email notification for PMs, i had the same prob, just goto your settings.
> 
> What modifications are needed for 100amp charging?


will do. should have thought about it myself ;-)

100A charging:
1. Inductors swapped out for larger (ideally toroids - we now use T400-40D cores from Micrometals and test to 80A continuous). For 100A continuous, you might need to go up a size - to T520. Of course, your winding will have to be beefed up, too - something like 8 strands of AWG16. On the plus side, you can wind fewer turns. For 100A, something like 150uH would do. Use micrometals software from http://micrometals.com/downloads/MicroRelease_March2010.exe to design your inductor. Keep in mind that you need 150uH AT 100A DC bias - if you don't take saturation into account, you will end up blowing up your IGBTs...) 
2. this is kind of obvious: wiring from IGBT to output needs to be beefed up to at least AWG4
3. Note that you will still be limited to ~15kW max power as at that point you will be hitting >100A peak current in the PFC inductor 

Hope this helps.

Or you can ask us to custom-build for you ;-)

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,
I'm having problems uploading the sketch to the arduino. I have arduino 1.0.1 software on both windows 7 and XP computers but have not been able to get arduino-0022 to do anything on either but imediately end after clicking on the exe file.

I can download a blink sketch to the arduino and it works using 1.0.1, is the 0022 required?

Using 1.0.1 I get an error saying:

expected initializer before token

do I need to add the two libraries manually, neither way gets past the error.

I'm trying to use "charger_2012_05_01_V09_ISO.PDE", is that the right file? 

More complete step by step instructions for arduino beginners would be helpful.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery, after several unsuccessful attempts at running the 0022 software I erased all arduino files from my documents and C: drive and redownloaded the zip file from your site, then extracted it to a folder on my C: drive, rebooted and then the software would run without abruptly ending. 

I compiled and uploaded the file to the arduino without an error popping up. Two more small wiring harnesses to go before trial lift-off. I did not do anything about the two library downloads, they are still in an EMW folder on my desktop and don't know the correct procedure for "addiing" them to the sketch. If there are no errors when it uploads does that mean I don't have to add them to the sketch?


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

Do you think someone (perhaps Rwaudio Or Zak) could post some higher definition photos of their populated PCBs?

I think it would be a great help when assembling the kit! Having something to look at to compare for accuracy and component orientation etc will save someone's charger.

I would like to get to posting mine tonight or tomorrow, since I haven't finished them yet (got the remaining missing components today).

Better yet, seeing how the PCBs connect to each other (connection methods) would be great!

Thanks guys!


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

powerhouse said:


> Do you think someone (perhaps Rwaudio Or Zak) could post some higher definition photos of their populated PCBs?
> 
> I think it would be a great help when assembling the kit! Having something to look at to compare for accuracy and component orientation etc will save someone's charger.
> 
> ...


I'll post photo's as soon as mine is up and running and I know I have it assembled correctly, I'd hate to post a photo showing everyone how to do it wrong.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Valery, after several unsuccessful attempts at running the 0022 software I erased all arduino files from my documents and C: drive and redownloaded the zip file from your site, then extracted it to a folder on my C: drive, rebooted and then the software would run without abruptly ending.
> 
> I compiled and uploaded the file to the arduino without an error popping up. Two more small wiring harnesses to go before trial lift-off. I did not do anything about the two library downloads, they are still in an EMW folder on my desktop and don't know the correct procedure for "addiing" them to the sketch. If there are no errors when it uploads does that mean I don't have to add them to the sketch?


You don't need to manually add or attach the library, it simply needs to be available when the code is compiled and uploaded to the controller. If the library was not available you should get an error during the compiling process.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

This is my version of the EMW Charger, movable screeen, 8"x 6-1/2"x 14" box, heatsink tunnel exhaust:










Bottom views, 120v input, 90 CFM Delta fan:










Fan blows directly onto inductor on it's way to heatsink fin tunnel.










Voltage Doubler board split in half for tunnel style cooling: 










Both Anderson SB50 and 1/4" stud outputs.










Here you go, this is non-pfc and has not been powered up yet, there's a female harness header I left on one of the driver board male pin rows.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Valery, after several unsuccessful attempts at running the 0022 software I erased all arduino files from my documents and C: drive and redownloaded the zip file from your site, then extracted it to a folder on my C: drive, rebooted and then the software would run without abruptly ending.
> 
> I compiled and uploaded the file to the arduino without an error popping up. Two more small wiring harnesses to go before trial lift-off. I did not do anything about the two library downloads, they are still in an EMW folder on my desktop and don't know the correct procedure for "addiing" them to the sketch. If there are no errors when it uploads does that mean I don't have to add them to the sketch?


glad it worked out. if the library files are in the same folder as the main sketch, they would be added automatically by Arduino software. The firmware would not compile without those libraries so you should be ok I think.

Let us know how it goes with the power up. Please go slow and follow instructions in the build notes.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> This is my version of the EMW Charger, movable screeen, 8"x 6-1/2"x 14" box, heatsink tunnel exhaust:


MAN, this looks pretty good! Great build. Pretty good use of space. Very good fan positioning

Couple of [thermal] things to watch out for (potentially) in a dense build like this:
1. IGBT drivers, their DC-DC converters & gate resistors will heat up and need a certain small amount of airflow. Best to just measure the temp of those with an infrared thermometer and make sure that it does not go beyond ~70C
2. Inrush resistors will heat up to 200C or beyond (that's their normal operating temp). As such, placing them inside the enclosure may create a thermal problem. Especially close to elcaps that don't like heat. Again, I would probably (a) drill some vent holes right above those, and (b) measure the temp of caps right under the resistors after 10-20 min of full-power operation. Outside surface of caps should not go beyond 50-60C.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## dillond666 (Dec 27, 2010)

The brass output terminals scare me! I know I'd accidentally lean on them and cook myself. Maybe put a tallish plastic divider between them? Cracking looking build though


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Looking good, just picked up ups which runs on 328 volt pack Also my Ford Ranger EV runs this voltage So I was looking into maximum power point tracking for charging these packs from solar cells (20-30% more wattage). This MPPT is a measuring of the voltage/amps coming from any solar array, wind generator or genset to get the maimum watts into the battery pack via PWM modification What I have been hoping is that this will just be a software mod to the open source charger or a arduino moded vfd or ups . MPPT needs to check incoming V and A multiply to watts , store in memory , adjust pwm , stop pwm and measure battery voltage , turn on pwm at a new higher/lower rate , stop measure ( repeat) save data / compare ,pick a ever changing MPPT.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> Looking good, just picked up ups which runs on 328 volt pack Also my Ford Ranger EV runs this voltage So I was looking into maximum power point tracking for charging these packs from solar cells (20-30% more wattage). This MPPT is a measuring of the voltage/amps coming from any solar array, wind generator or genset to get the maimum watts into the battery pack via PWM modification What I have been hoping is that this will just be a software mod to the open source charger or a arduino moded vfd or ups . MPPT needs to check incoming V and A multiply to watts , store in memory , adjust pwm , stop pwm and measure battery voltage , turn on pwm at a new higher/lower rate , stop measure ( repeat) save data / compare ,pick a ever changing MPPT.


good idea. well, the firmware is open source so pls feel free to edit to match your needs and post back so others can use. This sounds like a very relevant and interesting use case.

V


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

I was waiting to post these photos till after I got it operational but powerhouse requested some photos of the boards so I put them up ahead of time.

Airflow on the component side of the coolling system can be increased by changing the size of the small holes just above the breaker.

The 1/4 studs are longer so a shock guard can be slipped over them.

A heat shield plate can be glued on top of the caps to protect them from the heat of the inrush current limiter resistors. 

Valery, can a time delay be setup so the relay you see on the back wall bypasses the current inrush limiter resistors after initial power-up and avoid that heat/inefficiency?


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Valery, thanks ,it looks very interesting , I'm under the gun so it will be slow but I will post links to what I find .


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Valery, can a time delay be setup so the relay you see on the back wall bypasses the current inrush limiter resistors after initial power-up and avoid that heat/inefficiency?


Ah, got it - no problem then. Did not know that you decided to implement an input relay. Do you have an output relay, as well, or you are using a diode to block the battery voltage on connection? 

We have started using 2-pole 60A relays in some of our recent builds, with one pole used for input, another - for output. With something like 330R 3-10W resistor (ideally PTC) across the relays, you get the inrush taken care of automatically.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

The output diode is inplace on the side of the inductor support.

The relay on the back wall is a 240v coil relay I planned to direct 120 volt power in, n/c, and to disconnect the power to the exposed plug in the back when the 240 ac is present on L1 and L2. 

Your talking about the heat being generated by the inrush resistors got me thinking of other uses for that relay space. I wondered if the fan pin on the control board could be used to power the coil of a relay that disconnects/bypasses the inrush resistors as the temperature rose, which it will do as soon as the charger starts working.

So my question remains, are the inrush current resistors required to be in the circuit after the initial power-up?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> The output diode is inplace on the side of the inductor support.
> 
> ...


Yes fan pin could be used but why not use the inrelay / outrelay pins that are also there. The code to drive them is already in the firmware so you don't need to re program anything...


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks Valery I'll look into it, if the diode is already in place does that mean I can get by with only one relay for the input side?


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> We have started using 2-pole 60A relays in some of our recent builds, with one pole used for input, another - for output. With something like 330R 3-10W resistor (ideally PTC) across the relays, you get the inrush taken care of automatically.



Valery, do you have a mouser/digikey link for that relay? I'd like to retrofit one to the previous model EMW charger I have.
Thx


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Thanks Valery I'll look into it, if the diode is already in place does that mean I can get by with only one relay for the input side?


yes. among other things, that would save you ~40W dissipation in those inrush resistors.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Valery,

I was just looking at the schematics for the PFC version and I don't understand why the NTC current limiter is needed. It looks like it limits the inrush current to only a 15uf cap and the IR1153 chip has soft start and current limiting so it doesn't seem like it would be needed.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> Valery,
> 
> I was just looking at the schematics for the PFC version and I don't understand why the NTC current limiter is needed. It looks like it limits the inrush current to only a 15uf cap and the IR1153 chip has soft start and current limiting so it doesn't seem like it would be needed.


The freewheeling diode of the PFC stage directly connects input to the PFC output caps (~9,000uF). It is a pretty rugged diode (rated for 200A continuous) so it will survive. However, the breakers will likely trip in whatever you would connect the charger to. J1772 EVSEs all trip on connection of this charger without inrush limiting - either through resistors or input relay.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> Valery,
> 
> I was just looking at the schematics for the PFC version and I don't understand why the NTC current limiter is needed. It looks like it limits the inrush current to only a 15uf cap and the IR1153 chip has soft start and current limiting so it doesn't seem like it would be needed.


btw have you received your unit yet? Did you have a chance to power it up?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Valery, do you have a mouser/digikey link for that relay? I'd like to retrofit one to the previous model EMW charger I have.
> Thx


not really as we have bought some stock from China directly. But you can try to use something like http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7-1611004-4/PB1646-ND/2053669 and wire the 240VAC coil to the PFC output (or voltage doubler output in a non-PFC version). You will need to use a power resistor inline with the coil to reduce coil current to spec (since you are now feeding it with 330-380VDC instead of 240VAC).


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> btw have you received your unit yet? Did you have a chance to power it up?


Received it yesterday, have not powered it up yet. Does this one behave well if powered up and not connected to batteries?


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

From the revised build notes:

a. Cut AC adapter’s cord at 12” from the adapter; solder one line input wire to Out “-“ copper bracket on the doubler board, another line input wire – to Out “+“ bracket.

Doesn't this mean the power supply is getting fed 330-380VDC? I sent you and email as I did not recieve a AC adapter with my kit and bought a 100-240 volt ac input one on ebay. Sounds like it will blow it up or am I missing something?


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> not really as we have bought some stock from China directly. But you can try to use something like http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7-1611004-4/PB1646-ND/2053669 and wire the 240VAC coil to the PFC output (or voltage doubler output in a non-PFC version). You will need to use a power resistor inline with the coil to reduce coil current to spec (since you are now feeding it with 330-380VDC instead of 240VAC).


So as the caps charge up through the pre-charge resistor, they kick on the relay and bypass the pre-charge automatically... niiiice


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> From the revised build notes:
> 
> ...


The power supply will be getting 330VDC. For vast majority of the low-power adapters that take 240VAC input, this is absolutely fine. The first thing they have on the input side is a diode bridge and caps - which convert 240VAC input into 330VDC...

Will get back to you on email re AC adapter - we started including in kit at some point in the last couple of months.

Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> Received it yesterday, have not powered it up yet. Does this one behave well if powered up and not connected to batteries?


yes, this design can take full PFC voltage on the output so can be powered up with open output.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,

I'm haveing to remove the Arduino in order to program it, I get an error:

Problem uploading to the Arduino if it is in the charger. See Arduino troubleshooting

Averdude: stk500_getsync():not in sync: resp=0xe0
Averdude: stk500_disable()rotocal errpr, expect = 0x14,resp=0x51

If it is out of the charger I can upload to it


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

I can't seem to make this produce any voltage in testing setup


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Valery,
> 
> I'm haveing to remove the Arduino in order to program it, I get an error:
> 
> ...


I've been having the same issue. Early on when I plugged it into the header I soldered to the board for testing I could upload software. Then I made two changes so I don't know which is the cause, I connected the driver board to the main board along with all other sensors and I added an extension cable to the programming port to bring it outside the enclosure. Once I did those two things I could no longer program in circuit.

I did get my charger up and running for the first time last night and charged an 8S pack of A123's at 47.5A off of a 110v line briefly. I didn't let it complete the charging process because the voltage measurement was way off and I had to "trick" the charger to get it to come on at all. Setting the charger to 9S and 3.65v per cell made it turn on and behave as expected with the exception of the displayed voltage which fluctuated between 5-10v when in reality the pack started at 25.8v and was higher during charging. During calibration the charger displayed 25v as expected, I tried calibrating to both 25 and 26v (actual voltage was 25.8v). I'm happy to get to this stage though, it might be the fact I'm trying to charge an 8S pack which is lower than the recommended cell count. I may grab more cells and make an 80+v pack and see if things get better.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I've been having the same issue. Early on when I plugged it into the header I soldered to the board for testing I could upload software. Then I made two changes so I don't know which is the cause, I connected the driver board to the main board along with all other sensors and I added an extension cable to the programming port to bring it outside the enclosure. Once I did those two things I could no longer program in circuit.
> 
> I did get my charger up and running for the first time last night and charged an 8S pack of A123's at 47.5A off of a 110v line briefly. I didn't let it complete the charging process because the voltage measurement was way off and I had to "trick" the charger to get it to come on at all. Setting the charger to 9S and 3.65v per cell made it turn on and behave as expected with the exception of the displayed voltage which fluctuated between 5-10v when in reality the pack started at 25.8v and was higher during charging. During calibration the charger displayed 25v as expected, I tried calibrating to both 25 and 26v (actual voltage was 25.8v). I'm happy to get to this stage though, it might be the fact I'm trying to charge an 8S pack which is lower than the recommended cell count. I may grab more cells and make an 80+v pack and see if things get better.


Great to see you got it to work. Let us know how the increased cell count works. Although this is a bit unusual to see that much of a fluctuation. Can you measure the voltage at all points along the voltage sensing chain - starting with the sensing wire going to output, proceeding through the voltage divider (maybe measuring on the corresponding pin of the ISO124 chip?), and finally the voltage coming out of the other end of ISO124. Let us know what you find.

On programming in-circuit - this is what the normally-closed button is for in step 1.u.iii of the latest PFC build instructions. You have to press it while programming. This temporarily de-powers the LCD. Basically the LCD's serial pins interfere with the programming action when LCD is powered on. So you need to turn it off. that's what the NC button is for. Let us know if that helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

This is what I posted 11 days ago:

Hi Valery can you make a few things more clear in the build notes below:

Button:

iii. Connect a normally closed button between 2 horizontal vias on top of the vertical LCD connector – below the top 6-pin row of Arduino mounting pins 

This is the last and only mention of this button, I suppose it might be a reset button or for some other purpose, but you can't tell from the instructions

Now you tell us why this button is there and how to use it, it does allow you to upload when you use it. 

A great deal of aggravation could have been avoided if you had told us about pressing this button while uploading


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> This is what I posted 11 days ago:
> 
> Hi Valery can you make a few things more clear in the build notes below:
> 
> ...


Hi Don - yes, we missed this. Thanks for catching. We have updated the guides right away after your note and reposted on our site. Sounds like it is still not fully clear so I will make sure we do another pass.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> Hi Don - yes, we missed this. Thanks for catching. We have updated the guides right away after your note and reposted on our site. Sounds like it is still not fully clear so I will make sure we do another pass.
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery.


The build notes in the PFC version are similarly confusing:

_iii.	Connect a normally closed button between 2 horizontal vias on top of the vertical LCD connector – below the top 6-pin row of Arduino mounting pins 
v.	If you decide not to mount buttons and / or LCD on the control board, you will need to do the following:
i.	Bridge the 2 horizontal vias from the last item_

I'm guessing that your intention was that if the display was remote mounted it could be removed for programming. Mine is remote mounted, but with a non removable ribbon cable, looks like I'll be adding a switch.

I have a friend who wants me to assemble a kit for him, now that I have most of the issues worked out I could probably document the build process much better on the next one.

I'll let you know if I have better luck with the voltage accuracy on a higher voltage pack.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> The build notes in the PFC version are similarly confusing:
> 
> _iii.	Connect a normally closed button between 2 horizontal vias on top of the vertical LCD connector – below the top 6-pin row of Arduino mounting pins
> v.	If you decide not to mount buttons and / or LCD on the control board, you will need to do the following:
> ...


I see how this could be confusing. The build document does specify only 2 ways to connect LCD - (1) direct on board, and (2) remotely using the supplied 7-pin connector. It also specifies that same connector is then to be used for programming. In this case, there is no way you would have LCD connected while programming.

Will clarify in the next version of the build manual.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> I see how this could be confusing. The build document does specify only 2 ways to connect LCD - (1) direct on board, and (2) remotely using the supplied 7-pin connector. It also specifies that same connector is then to be used for programming. In this case, there is no way you would have LCD connected while programming.
> 
> Will clarify in the next version of the build manual.
> 
> ...


Ok, it makes more sense now. 

I know that you know the charger inside and out, you've been wonderful at trouble shooting when I only give you a few specific details. The issue is without a better description it can be hard for us to understand how you intend for the charger to be assembled and used. I had no idea that you meant for the the display connector and the programming port could only be used separately. I received two sets of 7 pin connectors, to do what you propose I believe I would need an extra female 7 pin side in order to make one for the display and then remove it and plug in the programming version.

7 pin male #1 attached to box as LCD/Programming connector
7 pin male #2 attached to box as BMS/EOC/1772 etc. connector

7 pin female #1 attached to cable to LCD
7 pin female #2 attached to cable to BMS and other external wiring

If I understand correctly you intend for the LCD female connector to be unplugged and an adapter to be plugged in to 7 pin male #1 for programming?

Once we get these little things worked out it will be much easier for others to assemble/program/use the charger the way you intended.

For my application I'll implement the switch since my LCD is hard wired, but I just wanted to help clear it up for others.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Robin, 
In my build a female header sticks right through and is flush with the front wall so the lcd can be slipped out and an extension cord plugged in that could lead to the dash of the car. I don't know how many wires would actually be necessary to run but I think this is a great way to attach the LCD, just a llittle velcro pad on the back of the LCD. The 4 screws in the corners just have double nuts between the front panel and the control board. The switches are soldered directly on, Tactile Button Switch, momentary,6x6x13mm, Red and Green, 20PCS for $6 on ebay. You might say I have a few left over, let me know if you need any.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Robin,
> In my build a female header sticks right through and is flush with the front wall so the lcd can be slipped out and an extension cord plugged in that could lead to the dash of the car. I don't know how many wires would actually be necessary to run but I think this is a great way to attach the LCD, just a llittle velcro pad on the back of the LCD. The 4 screws in the corners just have double nuts between the front panel and the control board. The switches are soldered directly on, Tactile Button Switch, momentary,6x6x13mm, Red and Green, 20PCS for $6 on ebay. You might say I have a few left over, let me know if you need any.


That sounds like a good way to do it. Where are you mounting the LCD? I'm keeping mine on the charger enclosure along with the buttons, so I just need to decide where to put the programing connector. I have lots of momentary switches so I should be able to pick one suitable for the location I decide on.

Thanks again Valery for clearing up the LCD/Programming issue, it seems so simple now.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

OK, I give up. This charger has beaten me and killed any chance to put it in my car and drive the car to EVCCON in 1 week. 
You can't get a photo of what the boards are supposed to look like just one that says some components are missing on the non-pfc version.
You can't diagnos any difficulty you have in the testing phase
It's just a f__ked up deal.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> OK, I give up. This charger has beaten me and killed any chance to put it in my car and drive the car to EVCCON in 1 week.
> You can't get a photo of what the boards are supposed to look like just one that says some components are missing on th non-pfc version.
> You can't diagnos any difficulty you have in the testing phase
> It's just a f__ked up deal.


It's too bad my version is different from yours. I still have some small issues, but I put 33Ah into my pack last night and other than some fluctuating voltage readings at the start it worked perfectly.

What is your charger doing/not doing? Have you made it through the 12v power up test and light bulb test? (assuming of course the testing process is the same for your charger, I haven't actually read the build instructions for the non-pfc version)


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

*11. Test the charger. *This is the testing sequence we use at EMW on all units. Generally, if any step fails, DO NOT proceed until you fix whatever is preventing it from passing. *USE EYE PROTECTION! WEAR RUBBER SHOES! DO NOT TOUCH MORE THAN ONE BARE CONTACT AT ANY TIME! *The following sequences assume unmodified firmware (from the official EMW distribution)
a. Upload the firmware
i. Connect the programming cable you made earlier to your PC. Make sure your PC recognizes the cable and assigns it a separate COM port
ii. Make sure you have latest firmware downloaded from EMW site, and Arduino-0022 downloaded and installed
iii. Make sure your downloaded code has “#define DEBUG” statement (line 40-ish) uncommented & compile
iv. Connect the cable to the charger and attempt upload
v. Alternatively, you can upload directly onto the small Arduino board using the supplied programming cable / FTDI breakout board
b. Test logic circuits
i. Make a BMS dongle
1. Connect loose wires to a 7-pin female plug – use pins you used when connecting the male connector for BMS / EOC / J1772 outputs (all the wires from the connector on the bottom of the control board)
2. Connect BMS wire to EOC wire (you would normally connect these to your BMS loop – for testing, just short together)
ii. Connect BMS Dongle
iii. Connect LCD cable (if you have chosen to make LCD external)
iv. Connect a *separate power cord* to the AC adapter, plug in to 110VAC. DO NOT CONNECT THE MAIN AC POWER INPUT YET!
v. Fans should turn on 
vi. The screen should go live
vii. On the screen, program the charger to LiFePo4, 30 cells, 3.5 V CV cutoff (‘350’ setting in the CV menu)
viii. Make sure you calibrate the charger. In this first calibration, use 30-60V battery when requested to connect battery. Watch polarity!
ix. After calibrations are done, set the charger to max output current of 10A and let it go into the charging mode (with the battery connected), watch the duty display go up from zero to 9x%. 
x. The output voltage reading on LCD should be very close to your battery voltage. The current reading should be zero (or 1A max)
xi. Check the heatsink temperature readout. Should be close to ambient
xii. Disconnect AC

Results: Duty = 19.7% 
Out = 0.0A, 53V
Temp = 26C
Runtime = 12 Min 
　
c. Test power circuits – FROM THIS POINT ON, YOU *HAVE* TO USE PROTECTIVE GLASSES. One wrong polarity elcap soldered in reverse can mean a very violent explosion with boiling electrolyte shooting in all directions. Not fun…
i. Connect 30-60V battery to 220V AC inputs – ideally through a 30A+ DC circuit breaker. You may want to first connect a 12V battery to test that there are no shorts
ii. Measure input voltage on the IGBT (bottom and middle terminals). Should be equal to your input voltage minus ~1V

Result: 51.6V

iii. Measure input current if possible. Should be very close to zero.
iv. Connect some load to the charger (best to use 2 110VAC lamps in series. If not possible, a single lamp would work). Measure output voltage. It should be close to zero
v. Connect the AC cord from your logic test to 110VAC (DO NOT CONNECT THE MAIN AC INPUT OF THE CHARGER YET!)
vi. Let the charger time out through the calibration routine and power setting routine. During the power setting routine, note the stated input voltage. It should approximately match the input voltage you connected

Result: 52V 

vii. Watch the duty go up from zero to 9x%
viii. This time, output voltage should go up to ~your input voltage; output current rise may or may not be indicated (depends on the resistance of load)


Result FAIL: tried: 100watt light bulb and a .7 ohm wound resistor

Duty = 13.6%
Out = 0.0A, 0.0V
Temp = 26C
AH in = 0.0AH
Runtime = 4 Min 

ix. Disconnect AC from the adapter
x. Disconnect DC input

I haven't gotten it to put out any voltage in further testing thusfar.
Maybe someone with a non-pfc V9 charger will take some photos of their boards and I can track down what component I left out.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> OK, I give up. This charger has beaten me and killed any chance to put it in my car and drive the car to EVCCON in 1 week.
> You can't get a photo of what the boards are supposed to look like just one that says some components are missing on the non-pfc version.
> You can't diagnos any difficulty you have in the testing phase
> It's just a f__ked up deal.


Hi Don - sorry about your frustration. We are trying hard to help everyone in their builds as other people on the thread can attest. And there are over 30 people out there who have completed their builds. But this IS a complex project. We have said it ourselves on the site several times. So please give yourself a bit of room & time to check and re-check and debug things. 

On the components missing etc - there are schematics posted to the site, PCB files with component markings, BOM files with lists of parts used for each version, and build instructions that are step-by-step separate for PFC and non-PFC units. Yes we could of course do more but can't do it all at the same time. 

We will continue to debug your unit offline.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,
I've gone over all the traces in the photos on your site and of the boards I built and can't find any missing components or circuit board paths that could be causing a problem


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I just want to buy a 10 or larger KW unit, factory built and working if you guys have that going yet. I think I recall reading you were close to production on the 10kw and that was a year or more ago. I take it it's still home built now since I can't find anything anywhere online, correct?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

The factory built models are available.

Minimally you hook up the two wires to the AC and the two wires to the battery. You tie the BMS wire to the EOC wire if you dont have a BMS and then plug it in. (there is slightly more to it than this but not much). And then you have a working charger.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/emw3/product/fully-assembled-and-tested-pfc-charger/


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

My charger is finally getting somewhere...


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,
I got a message on the charger about a bad dc voltage sensor, could that be my problem all along?


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

powerhouse said:


> My charger is finally getting somewhere...


Be careful, it looks like your driver board is installed backwards..... guess how I know?

Maybe I should look back at my pictures and make sure I'm not still showing that in any of mine... I blew up the PFC IGBT as well as A3120 and dc/dc, the PFC chip and a resistor or two.... Valery quickly pointed out it goes the other way.... 

My charger is now working though, I just have a small voltage sensing issue to work out.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

rwaudio said:


> Be careful, it looks like your driver board is installed backwards..... guess how I know?
> 
> Maybe I should look back at my pictures and make sure I'm not still showing that in any of mine... I blew up the PFC IGBT as well as A3120 and dc/dc, the PFC chip and a resistor or two.... Valery quickly pointed out it goes the other way....
> 
> My charger is now working though, I just have a small voltage sensing issue to work out.


Man you really saved me there!
Yes unfortunately I did see it first on your pictures and assumed it was correct lolol.
Oh well, at least I hadn't powered it up yet!


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

powerhouse said:


> Man you really saved me there!
> Yes unfortunately I did see it first on your pictures and assumed it was correct lolol.
> Oh well, at least I hadn't powered it up yet!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the build instructions lead you to believe that is the correct way??

edit.. I went back and removed the image from the post that showed the driver board installed backwards. I would suggest removing that photo from your post to avoid confusing others, or make a note or something.

I found a 90degree connector at digikey that lets you keep the 5 wire harness pointing towards the power board, I'll dig up the part number.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

rwaudio said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the build instructions lead you to believe that is the correct way??
> 
> I found a 90degree connector at digikey that lets you keep the 5 wire harness pointing towards the power board, I'll dig up the part number.


Yes,
it says "Most of the components on the driver board should be facing the rest of power buck board".
I didn't understand how / why it would be designed with the 5 pin connector facing inward...

Ill likely just desolder the connector and solder it on the backside so that it faces the power board.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Robin,
The image powerhouse of the assembly has the components on the driver board facing the components on the power board. That is correct, isn't it, that's how I have mine.

I think we would all benefit from Valery keeping a camera next to his workbench


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Robin,
> The image powerhouse of the assembly has the components on the driver board facing the components on the power board. That is correct, isn't it, that's how I have mine.
> 
> I think we would all benefit from Valery keeping a camera next to his workbench


That's how I had mine as well and I blew up the PFC IGBT, A3120, dc/dc converter, PFC chip etc.

The pictures below are from my working charger. I have replaced the PFC dc/dc converter with a higher power version that will live through brief overloads or short circuits, I blew up the normal style twice.

Sorry for the crappy pictures this is simply to show you how it should be installed.

edit.. if you look at the bottom two pictures Valery has on his website in the charger page where you download the build instructions etc from it shows the driver board installed with the components facing AWAY from the power board.... I noticed this too late..


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

dang, thanks for saving me rw...
Valery you need to fix those instructions before someone else falls victim!
The directions completely contradict the way it needs to be installed.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

AAAAARGG,
I'm having all kind of difficulties with my build and the instructions clearly state:

p. Insert 3 male 90-degree spade connectors into the female spade connectors on the buck power board, mounting pins facing you. Position driver board so that these pins fit into the mounting pads on the driver board (Components on the driver board should be facing the rest of power buck board. Solder pins in place.

The above is from the non-pfc build notes, I don't know if it's different for the pfc version.

Damn

Robin, I looked at the photos, they are different from my instructions say to do. Do you have any instructions that Valery sent you that you could post here?

Has anyone out there built or have a non-pfc V9 and can shed some llight on this?


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

Zak650 said:


> AAAAARGG,
> I'm having all kind of difficulties with my build and the instructions clearly state:
> 
> p. Insert 3 male 90-degree spade connectors into the female spade connectors on the buck power board, mounting pins facing you. Position driver board so that these pins fit into the mounting pads on the driver board (Components on the driver board should be facing the rest of power buck board. Solder pins in place.
> ...


What if its made to face inwards on the non-PFC version?
Maybe (just possibly) Valery wrote the directions for the Non-PFC version first, and then edited those instructions to create the PFC version but forgot to change the orientation of the driver board.
This would explain why your charger hasn't exploded like Rw's?


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

powerhouse said:


> What if its made to face inwards on the non-PFC version?
> Maybe (just possibly) Valery wrote the directions for the Non-PFC version first, and then edited those instructions to create the PFC version but forgot to change the orientation of the driver board.
> This would explain why your charger hasn't exploded like Rw's?


I know, but my charger has yet to charge and I've had no success getting it to output power.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

powerhouse said:


> What if its made to face inwards on the non-PFC version?
> Maybe (just possibly) Valery wrote the directions for the Non-PFC version first, and then edited those instructions to create the PFC version but forgot to change the orientation of the driver board.
> This would explain why your charger hasn't exploded like Rw's?


I only blew up the PFC section when it was installed backwards, the main section was just fine, I would suspect the possibility being the same would happen in the non-PFC version as well, but I would ask Valery for 100% clarification before going further.

_Valery Miftakhov "email address removed for spam prevention" 
Jul 19

to Robin 
so it is buck side that blew up. on the picture '2', you have the driver board inserted backwards - is this how it was when you powered up?

If that's the case, what happened is likely instead of '-15v', '+15v' was applied to the gate of the PFC IGBT and it opened, shorting the input. Most likely, PFC side IGBT is blown with collector shorted to gate (this is what could blow the gate resistor, as well...)

please confirm my understanding.

Thanks,

-
Valery Miftakhov, Ph.D._

That was Valery's diagnosis to the photo's that I sent him, which is exactly the same as powerhouse's build. Valery was exactly right and I replaced the components that he suggested and eventually the charger worked.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Robin,

What all did you have to replace to get your charger opperational again?
I have 3 IGBTs I scored on ebay but wonder what else might be bad.

If the gate resistor is bad where and on what board is it, a resistor # would be good too?


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Zak650 said:


> Robin,
> 
> What all did you have to replace to get your charger opperational again?
> I have 3 IGBTs I scored on ebay but wonder what else might be bad.
> ...


All of the parts I replaced were in the PFC section of the charger with the exception of the A3120 and dc/dc converter in the buck section.

I wouldn't replace any parts until you hear from Valery, having the driver board installed backwards in the non-pfc version may not have the same outcome as my PFC version. It also took some time for things to blow up but it was very obvious when they did.

After looking over the PCB for the non-pfc version I would suspect the driver board is supposed to be installed the way you have it, or opposite to the way the PFC version should be installed. There is a difference to how the G1/E1 terminals are laid out with an additional terminal on the far right side of the board to act as a support for the unused PFC side of the driver board.

Valery will have to confirm but I would suspect the build instructions are correct for the non-pfc version with regard to the orientation of the driver board anyway.

Sorry the problem is likely not that simple.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks Robin, I enjoy goog news, hope it's already correct


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> Yes,
> it says "Most of the components on the driver board should be facing the rest of power buck board".
> I didn't understand how / why it would be designed with the 5 pin connector facing inward...
> 
> Ill likely just desolder the connector and solder it on the backside so that it faces the power board.


quick note - PFC and non-PFC versions are different in the way driver board is installed - for non-PFC version the components should face the power board, for PFC - should face away from the power board.

Latest set of instructions with more explicit directions posted to site. Also posted more images (linked from same page, direct link: http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/images/assembly/).

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Thanks Robin, I enjoy goog news, hope it's already correct


yes, instructions correct for non-PFC. Components facing the power board. Can you post photos of your build for diagnosis?

Thanks,
Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,
Great job on the EMW site!!! The photos are fantastic!


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

Valery, did you go to Burning Man , thinking it would be cool to see ev's there . I haven't gone in 6 years and miss it. 
I was thinking more on the mppt charge controller . Would be possible to use your driver cards/ controller to run one of my vfd's as charger . Looked on your site and didn't see anything about that .


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> Valery, did you go to Burning Man , thinking it would be cool to see ev's there . I haven't gone in 6 years and miss it.
> I was thinking more on the mppt charge controller . Would be possible to use your driver cards/ controller to run one of my vfd's as charger . Looked on your site and didn't see anything about that .


Miss BRC, too. Skipped last 2 years due to our EV startup ;-) Will try to make it out there again next year.

Re your vfd question: our control board hardware is very adaptable so I would imagine the answer to your question is yes.

Let me know.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

All - we are changing a bit a way we fulfill kit orders. Specifically, you will be getting a power board pre-assembled with most of the parts placed and soldered. This will save ~1-2 hours in your build (and potential for mistakes). Apart from providing better experience to our builders, this will actually help us in packing step as otherwise we have to pack all components individually and we noticed that it takes about the same time as just putting them on the PCBs...

Hope you guys like that.

Valery


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

I'd like to hook up a lightobject voltmeter/relay as a high-voltage cutoff charging safety measure. 

What is better, have it interrupt the 12V supply to the EMW charger (shutting the charger down, though not in a very controlled fashion) or have it trip the contactor on the incoming AC lines?

I'm going to anticipate someone saying it should trigger the BMS cutoff input to the charger, but I'd like to have this more independent from the charger than that.

Also, what's better to monitor, my canary cell or the whole pack voltage? I'm assuming it's the total pack voltage.

Thanks


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

swoozle said:


> I'd like to hook up a lightobject voltmeter/relay as a high-voltage cutoff charging safety measure.
> 
> What is better, have it interrupt the 12V supply to the EMW charger (shutting the charger down, though not in a very controlled fashion) or have it trip the contactor on the incoming AC lines?
> 
> ...


I've been thinking the same thing, however the meter has two relays, why not use one of them to disconnect the BMS loop at a volt or two above the preset voltage and then use the other one a couple volts higher as a hard cut off on the contactor or something if the BMS loop is unable to shut it down?


----------



## drdhdmd (Aug 5, 2007)

Does anyone know if this charger will be harmed if it is turned on without a load or if the AC breaker opens when it is charging at full output current?


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

rwaudio said:


> I've been thinking the same thing, however the meter has two relays, why not use one of them to disconnect the BMS loop at a volt or two above the preset voltage and then use the other one a couple volts higher as a hard cut off on the contactor or something if the BMS loop is unable to shut it down?



Great idea, that's what I'm going to do.

Thanks!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

drdhdmd said:


> Does anyone know if this charger will be harmed if it is turned on without a load or if the AC breaker opens when it is charging at full output current?


it will not be harmed. happens to us here in the lab all the time as we start testing these things at 15kW on a routine basis and tripping 60A lines every day. Got to put in a 100A line...

You can also cut 12V. There are UVLO protections built into the front-end PFC unit and you can also enable UVLO protection in firmware for the output buck stage.

12V is probably easier as a relay to break 60A at 240VAC is not small (or inexpensive)...


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I'm finally happy to report that the charger seems to be working pretty close to exactly how it should!! 

Valery the capacitor addition (I used a 0.0039uF cap on the ISO124) and the voltage reading is completely stable and accurate now.

I still need more testing with the termination however on the first try it terminated at the correct voltage however the current hadn't tapered down very much at all. It was only on a 20S test pack though. I'm currently charging another module from the pack 8S so that I could up the current off a 120v line just to see if things worked ok and was accurate. Currently charging at 51.6A with a stable heatsink temperature of 38C.

(Still charging while I post this, currently at 36 minutes 31.0Ah in and charging at 50.7A)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I'm finally happy to report that the charger seems to be working pretty close to exactly how it should!!
> 
> Valery the capacitor addition (I used a 0.0039uF cap on the ISO124) and the voltage reading is completely stable and accurate now.
> 
> ...


awesome! great to see!

on your 20S test, what was the battery capacity and what was the current output you set?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

I have to say we are becoming great believers here in liquid cooling - esp when you already have a liquid-cooling-capable controller like Soliton in your car. Ability to extract heat is just unreal. We just run the same charger design pumping almost 18kW into the 340V pack at just 47C stable sink temp!

So if you have a Soliton or Netgain controls controller in your car, get a liquid-cooled version of the charger kit (or full unit) and set up a liquid cooling loop in your car. You won't regret it.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> I have to say we are becoming great believers here in liquid cooling - esp when you already have a liquid-cooling-capable controller like Soliton in your car. Ability to extract heat is just unreal. We just run the same charger design pumping almost 18kW into the 340V pack at just 47C stable sink temp!
> 
> So if you have a Soliton or Netgain controls controller in your car, get a liquid-cooled version of the charger kit (or full unit) and set up a liquid cooling loop in your car. You won't regret it.
> 
> V


plus, with the new toroid inductors you can get it into 10x8x7" box!


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## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

valerun said:


> I have to say we are becoming great believers here in liquid cooling - esp when you already have a liquid-cooling-capable controller like Soliton in your car. Ability to extract heat is just unreal. We just run the same charger design pumping almost 18kW into the 340V pack at just 47C stable sink temp!
> 
> So if you have a Soliton or Netgain controls controller in your car, get a liquid-cooled version of the charger kit (or full unit) and set up a liquid cooling loop in your car. You won't regret it.
> 
> V


If the pre-built charger is being used at a 6kW power level, do you think it could be in an enclosed location with minimal airflow (a partitioned part of the trunk) if it was plumbed to a cooling system with a small radiator under the car? Will the cooling system pull enough of the heat out so that the main box would be okay without any airflow? If liquid cooling is used, are there any fans on the main unit at all?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dladd said:


> If the pre-built charger is being used at a 6kW power level, do you think it could be in an enclosed location with minimal airflow (a partitioned part of the trunk) if it was plumbed to a cooling system with a small radiator under the car? Will the cooling system pull enough of the heat out so that the main box would be okay without any airflow? If liquid cooling is used, are there any fans on the main unit at all?


The current configuration of the liquid cooled units requires a small fan for inductors. You could, in principle, mount the inductors to the other side of the cold plate with thermal epoxy. This would get 98% of heat coupled to the cold plate. the remaining 2% is in things like wiring and control circuitry. To let that dissipate, I would suggest doing an open build, with a cold plate fixed to the car body. That way you will have more air around the electronics and also less thermal barriers between the electronics and outside air.

hope this makes sense.

Valery


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> not really as we have bought some stock from China directly. But you can try to use something like http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7-1611004-4/PB1646-ND/2053669 and wire the 240VAC coil to the PFC output (or voltage doubler output in a non-PFC version). You will need to use a power resistor inline with the coil to reduce coil current to spec (since you are now feeding it with 330-380VDC instead of 240VAC).


I have this contactor now, but it apparently wants about double the current DC to pull in the coil as it needs on AC. The coil heats up unacceptably running that much current.
Too bad, it is such an elegant way to do precharge.

Is there an easy way to address this or to reduce the coil current once it is pulled in?


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Auto pre-charge continued 

Val (emailed as well),

I assume that V9 of the firmware isn't for the pre-V9 hardware. Otherwise I would load that and take advantage of the mains input relay signal available.

What about using the fan/output relay pin? As long as the precharge resistors are fairly low resistance to allow somewhat rapid precharge, will that cause any problems? Hmmm, might mess up the 120/240V sensing and auto-select relay signal, which I want to use...I suppose I could lengthen the startup delay a little to deal with that.

Thanks


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

An AC coil can be used on DC but generally at a lower voltage rating. On AC, the coil current will be limited by the coil resistance and its inductance, and when the contactor closes there will be an increase of inductance due to the closing of the magnetic gap, and the current will decrease. An AC coil also has a shorted turn which provides a phase-shifted current which keeps it from chattering as the AC voltage drops below that required to hold the contact closed.

For DC, the only limit to current is the coil resistance. It takes a certain amount of current to pull the contactor closed, which is obtained at about 1/2 the AC voltage, depending on coil resistance and inductance. But that amount of current is much less than what is needed to hold it closed, and will usually be too much for continuous operation. This is particularly true for larger contactors. Small DC relays do not have this problem,

If the full DC voltage will be applied directly to the coil, it is possible to use a large capacitor across a series resistor so that the relay gets a surge of current sufficient to pull in, and then as the capacitor charges up, the current will diminish to that determined by the resistor. You can estimate the size of the capacitor by using an RC time constant of about 100 mSec, long enough for the contactor to operate. So if a resistor of 100 ohms provides the proper holding current, the capacitor would be 1000 uF for a 100 mSec time constant. 

I have also designed a PWM circuit using a PIC which applies full voltage for 100mSec and then uses about 20% PWM to reduce the effective applied voltage to hold the contactor closed. It's a very simple PIC project and the components are probably less than $2. I can provide a schematic and PIC code if anyone is interested.


----------



## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

Great idea.. sign me up!


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

rwaudio said:


> I still need more testing with the termination however on the first try it terminated at the correct voltage however the current hadn't tapered down very much at all. It was only on a 20S test pack though. I'm currently charging another module from the pack 8S so that I could up the current off a 120v line just to see if things worked ok and was accurate. Currently charging at 51.6A with a stable heatsink temperature of 38C.


I too am seeing it not taper much before it cuts off. Since I was at EVCCon I haven't had a chance to look at it too much but once I get home I will investigate. I entered 033 cells, 360 for the CC/CV point and 100 AH for the configuration settings. My impression is that it is just cutting off when it reaches the CV point instead of tapering the charge. This is not a problem for me as I was considering doing this anyway. In any case I will watch it very closely when I get home and think about it as well. In fact it could be that because I am charging off of a 110v outlet and have it set up so as not to pop a circuit breaker there is nothing to taper down to.

Other than the drone of the fans I am pretty pleased with the assembled version of the PFC charger. I plugged it into my Killawatt and it indicates a power factor of .99 which is excellent.


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

dougingraham said:


> .... In fact it could be that because I am charging off of a 110v outlet and have it set up so as not to pop a circuit breaker there is nothing to taper down to...



That's what I thought as well, but the code says it is using 0.05C. For my 130 Ah cells that would be 6.5 amps and it always seems to go straight from CC to shutoff whether I'm charging at 8 amps or 15 amps.

For you of course that would be 5 amps. What are you charging at?


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

PStechPaul said:


> An AC coil can be used on DC but generally at a lower voltage rating....



Thanks Paul, great info. Unfortunately it means I cannot easily use that AC coil because I want it to pull in as the main caps charge up. The slow ramp means there's no opportunity to use a cap as you outline. I'll just use that 240V-coil contactor in my EVSE. I bought another 12V-coil 240V relay for the charger input mains and I'll use the fan signal to trip it.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Auto pre-charge continued
> 
> Val (emailed as well),
> 
> ...


yes you can reuse outrelay signal. however that would work only in PFC version and you would need to insert relay inline with the PFC inductor.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> That's what I thought as well, but the code says it is using 0.05C. For my 130 Ah cells that would be 6.5 amps and it always seems to go straight from CC to shutoff whether I'm charging at 8 amps or 15 amps.
> 
> For you of course that would be 5 amps. What are you charging at?


let's sort this out. How many cells in your config?


----------



## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

swoozle said:


> For you of course that would be 5 amps. What are you charging at?


The last charge was from a hotel room outlet so I had it turned back to 8 amps input which was showing a current of around 6 amps output. So not much to taper down from. And I have yet to actually see the end of the charge. The only reason I mentioned it was that you usually see them in the CV portion of the charge for quite a bit of time.


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> yes you can reuse outrelay signal. however that would work only in PFC version and you would need to insert relay inline with the PFC inductor.


Valery, why is this? I don't have a PFC version and had just planned (in fact have wired up) a double pole relay on the incoming 120V/neutral or 240V phases. 

There are 80R pre-charge resistors around this relay so the main caps should charge up close to full by the time the arduino wakes up. As far as I can tell, the charger won't even know the relay is there. It'll kick on right before the charger wants to draw any current from the mains.


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Valery,

I took part of your schematic and added what I have wired up. Please let me know where this has problems.

1) The EVSE and the vehicle-side J1772 board talk and the EVSE turns on mains power (separate off-board relay not shown) at the same time the vehicle-side board turns on 12V to the charger
2) By the time the charger boots and gets through the first timeout, the caps are charged enough for the charger to determine whether 120V or 240V is connected, and closes the voltage doubler relay via pin 5 if 120V
3) After the second timeout and shortly before charging starts, the fan relay signal closes the onboard mains relay
4) charging starts

(...5) The prox signal triggers the charge-complete BMS input to stop charging if J1772 plug removal is initiated...hmm, I think that also removes 12V at the same time, not exactly a graceful shutdown. need to check that...)


Edit 10/4/12: No patience. It's charging with this setup right now. The mains relay worked like a charm. I have the 120V relay wired in as well but am not in a hurry to test it; too much rewiring just for a test since I won't be using 120V at home. Although I suppose it would be smart to have an opportunity-charge 120V plug, but that could be hardwired to the 120V terminals.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Valery,
> 
> I took part of your schematic and added what I have wired up. Please let me know where this has problems.
> 
> ...


Awesome. Thanks for a write-up. (& sorry for lag in response - I switched to the digest email notifications from this forum and that feature is obviously broken...). We will include it into our site. 

When I said in PFC only, I have assumed you would source power for 15V AC adapter from after the voltage doubler caps. In that setup, you would not be able to power up the control board before you get the caps charged. Hence a catch 22... 

But if you source 12V from vehicle, then you obviously can do what you said.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

update on some R&D progress.

For those of you with battery voltages over 310V-320V nominal, we now have a 'semi-intelligent' charger that is basically a PFC stage controlled by a dedicated CC-CV chip. You set CC and CV points using resistors and the J1772 support and such are not super-precise but you do save the whole control board, screen, half a power stage and a ton of connectors. 

On top of that, heat loss is less than half of the full PFC+buck version. 

As a result, we were able to run 20kW into our BMW conversion (311V nominal) from a 10x8x7" box with air cooling...

We are trying to understand how many people might be interested in this - if enough of you are interested, we will put together a kit / built units. Should be ~50% of the price of our current PFC+buck chargers.

Let me know.

Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

swoozle said:


> Valery,
> 
> I took part of your schematic and added what I have wired up. Please let me know where this has problems.
> 
> ...


 could you pls post your schematic file so we can add to the site? thanks!


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

valerun said:


> could you pls post your schematic file so we can add to the site? thanks!


Really all i had was the gif that I attached to my earlier post....

I took a screen cap of a PDF of your sch file and added some text and lines in powerpoint 
I suppose I could have just done it in ExpressSCH, huh.  but I didn't know anyone would want it. Let me take a whack at it.


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## Inframan (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey I think something maybe wrong with my charger but I am using the old version is there a schematic up anywhere of the old version?


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## Inframan (Jan 30, 2011)

Does anyone remember how the old lcd schematic went particularly the button with respect to digital pin 2? Help would be enormously appreciated!


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

Inframan said:


> Does anyone remember how the old lcd schematic went particularly the button with respect to digital pin 2? Help would be enormously appreciated!


The schematic one version back (if that's what you are looking for) is still here:
http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7


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## Inframan (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks for responding I think I saw this schematic a couple of days ago but didn't think it was the right one because my firmware doesn't mention pin D3 for the lcd. It also has no battery temp sensor inputs as well as a an IGBT I think for synchronous rectification. Really don't know what to do at this point...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Inframan said:


> Thanks for responding I think I saw this schematic a couple of days ago but didn't think it was the right one because my firmware doesn't mention pin D3 for the lcd. It also has no battery temp sensor inputs as well as a an IGBT I think for synchronous rectification. Really don't know what to do at this point...


Hi Inframan - see the PM


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Inframan said:


> Thanks for responding I think I saw this schematic a couple of days ago but didn't think it was the right one because my firmware doesn't mention pin D3 for the lcd. It also has no battery temp sensor inputs as well as a an IGBT I think for synchronous rectification. Really don't know what to do at this point...


You can't do so-called synchronous rectification with IGBTs, only MOSFETs. This is because MOSFETs can conduct equally well in both directions (drain to source or source to drain). IGBTs only allow current to flow from collector to emitter and block it - though weakly - from emitter to collector.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi All - 

We have a few PFC air-cooled units ready to ship. Please PM / email if you want one.

Thanks!
Valery.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

I'd be interested in a watercooled unit...


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## jhl (Nov 28, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi All -
> 
> We have a few PFC air-cooled units ready to ship. Please PM / email if you want one.
> 
> ...


Valery,

I am building the air-cooled unit from a kit bought from you. I have the V9.4 driver board. Could you please post the schematic of this board so that I can start the build?

Thanks,
JH


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> I'd be interested in a watercooled unit...


Hi Skooler - we now have a couple of water-cooled units, as well.

Let me know in the PM / email to charger at emotorwerks dot com

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhl said:


> Valery,
> 
> I am building the air-cooled unit from a kit bought from you. I have the V9.4 driver board. Could you please post the schematic of this board so that I can start the build?
> 
> ...


Hi JH - hope you were able to use the PCB file I have sent. Let me know if you have additional questions. 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jhl (Nov 28, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi JH - hope you were able to use the PCB file I have sent. Let me know if you have additional questions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery.


Yes, I was able to use the PCB file you sent to me to re-engineer the schematic. Still have not finished the building yet.

Thanks,
JH


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi Skooler - we now have a couple of water-cooled units, as well.
> 
> Let me know in the PM / email to charger at emotorwerks dot com
> 
> ...


Hi Valery,

You should have recieved my order for the watercooled unit, pfc upgrade and emw dash driver board through Jordysport - Ee decided it was a good idea to share on postage.

Cheers


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

I thought I would update my build with some pictures of the charger in its current state

Major props to Rwaudio for all the help and a significant influence on the placement of my parts. 
I plan on powering it up within the week, so if anyone notices any mistakes PLEASE LET ME KNOW 










The driver board will be mounted to the side of the enclosure, hence the reason it is just sitting on the side. Same thing with the AC adapter, I still need to wire that thing up.










I used some 10-32 bolts and nuts and lock washers to make a system that allows me to connect and remove the inductors very easily. The red and black wires you see coming from the lower right corner of the power board are from the 12v regulator, mounted to the heatsink next to the IGBT.










I copied RW audio's output diode method. However, I extended a copper bar (the one that solders to the PCB) so that the double diode isn't covered by the power board. This way, you can screw / unscrew it.










One last picture of everything...


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Nice pics!

Now I'm scared!


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## Huub3 (Aug 16, 2009)

Good morning Valery,

I did not see a response on this announcement yet. I would be interested in a charger for 580-600 V pack voltage. I will be LiFePo, so BMS is in order, no decision yet how this will be implemented (and also not 100% clear how you do this in the semi-intelligent charger that you mention below).

Can you elaborate a bit more on your high-voltage plans/planning?

Best regards, and thanks a lot,


Huub



valerun said:


> update on some R&D progress.
> 
> For those of you with battery voltages over 310V-320V nominal, we now have a 'semi-intelligent' charger that is basically a PFC stage controlled by a dedicated CC-CV chip. You set CC and CV points using resistors and the J1772 support and such are not super-precise but you do save the whole control board, screen, half a power stage and a ton of connectors.
> 
> ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> You should have recieved my order for the watercooled unit, pfc upgrade and emw dash driver board through Jordysport - Ee decided it was a good idea to share on postage.
> 
> Cheers


yes, received and shipping later this week.

Thanks!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> I thought I would update my build with some pictures of the charger in its current state


looks great! can you post a close-up of control board & driver board in one shot with connecting wires?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Huub3 said:


> Good morning Valery,
> 
> I did not see a response on this announcement yet. I would be interested in a charger for 580-600 V pack voltage. I will be LiFePo, so BMS is in order, no decision yet how this will be implemented (and also not 100% clear how you do this in the semi-intelligent charger that you mention below).
> 
> ...


Hi Huub - 

We are testing the 3rd iteration of this new design now (some issues with logic isolation and loop stability etc in the first 2). Seems to be pretty stable now but we have not yet tested J1772 operation and overtemp protection. Getting a batch of new PCBs this Fri and will test by Tue next week.

If that works out, we will spec the unit at:
1. Power output of 15kW
2. Input voltage: 85-260VAC universal (full rated power available only >200VAC, automatic derating to 1.2kW below that)
3. Output voltage: 310-450VDC. . CC-CV charging profile. Above 450 VDC, will need to use alternative IGBT & caps- something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEMIKRON-Du...261?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4159787af5 (if not avail anymore, google for datasheet for SKM100GB128D)
4. Liquid or air cooling

Let us know what you think.


----------



## Huub3 (Aug 16, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Huub -
> 
> We are testing the 3rd iteration of this new design now (some issues with logic isolation and loop stability etc in the first 2). Seems to be pretty stable now but we have not yet tested J1772 operation and overtemp protection. Getting a batch of new PCBs this Fri and will test by Tue next week.
> 
> ...


Hello Valery,

sounds interesting. What would be the main differences with your standard design? How would this link to a BMS?

Any info on the costs of such a charger?

Best regards,


Huub


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Huub3 said:


> Hello Valery,
> 
> sounds interesting. What would be the main differences with your standard design? How would this link to a BMS?
> 
> ...


Ah, sorry missed the BMS question. The easiest would be to just wire an AC relay before the charger and connect that to the BMS.

The main difference of this charger to the standard one is that's a single PFC stage unit with some special control of PFC stage that allows to maintain PFC function while limiting current output. 

The cost will be under $2,000.

Let us know what you think.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## DDDvvv (Apr 2, 2012)

great job on this project.

im thinking of constructing this charger. is it possible to get the main schematic?

I checked your site and all I found was the pfc stage.
thanks


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

DDDvvv said:


> great job on this project.
> 
> im thinking of constructing this charger. is it possible to get the main schematic?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your interest. Please see http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hey All - couple of exciting news on the charger.

1. After some extensive testing with some new hardware (inductors / IGBTs) and a few software tweaks related to thermal management, we are raising the rating of our charging systems to 12kW / 70A max output (from 10kW / 50A output). 

2. Furthermore, the latest toroid inductors allow using 10x10x8" enclosure for air-cooled units, and 10x8x7 for water-cooled units. 

3. The current sensor has been upgraded from 50A to 100A to allow further increase of controlled current range to ~130A. We will be testing the units at 100A continuous output in the next couple of weeks. 

I hope that a lot of you out there with 'normal' voltage packs (144-200V) will be very happy about these new improvements. 

As always, all the fully built units are tested at 120-130% of the rated output for ~1hr duty before leaving our assembly line. 

We now have a couple of water-cooled & air-cooled units in stock available for immediate delivery. 

Please let us know if any questions.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I made PDFs of the schematics. I have attached the overall schematic. I can upload them all if it's OK with you. It may be better if I put them on my website or you can put them on yours. The PDF may be easier to view. Looks like a nice design. 

Attached are the schematics in PDF.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I made PDFs of the schematics. I have attached the overall schematic. I can upload them all if it's OK with you. It may be better if I put them on my website or you can put them on yours. The PDF may be easier to view. Looks like a nice design.


thanks! yes, pls upload and I will re-post to our site. Thx!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

some eye candy our VP of Engineering put together as we are working to scale the manufacturing of this charging system. Enjoy ;-)


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Valery:

This product looks better and better everyday. 

Can you give me (and others) a rough idea of what the recommended experience level is to successfully complete your charger kit.

I have a good working knowledge of electronics and have done some simple PCB soldering (arduino boards, etc.) but I'm definately not an electrical engineer that can easily follow a schematic and see how the components should be placed. Would I be able to complete a kit like this? The YouTube video you've posted along with the information on your site makes it look pretty straightforward but I have my doubts. 

thanks and keep up the good work.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Valery:
> 
> This product looks better and better everyday.
> 
> ...


Thanks Shane! 

With the latest iterations, it is actually fairly simple. The YouTube video you are referring to details the process for the older version - which was way more complicated than the current process. Now, with all the components placed on PCBs, there is really low probability of errors. 

I think you should be totally fine. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

PS. I know we owe you guys an updated assembly video - with all the R&D work on this and some other exciting stuff (to be announced soon), this slipped through cracks a bit. We will try to get this one done this week.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

great couple of stress testing sessions over the last few days. Quick summary:

1. tested 100A continuous output (into a 70VDC battery but should scale up to 12kW rated power). Everything's good after ~50 min (full charge of the pack). Will try 125A in the next couple of days. Note that you need to wound your inductor differently for this - a little fewer turns, a lot more strands of wire. Same core, though. To support these new developments, we will be moving to 100A current sensors on the output starting next month (or earlier per special requests). This will allow us to go up to ~130A before sensor saturation. In summary, you can charge your 120VDC pack at 100A now! Quick charging is here - at ~$1K kit price.

2. Discovered the next weak thermal point in the current design. Before you start worrying, the failure happened at ~18kW output which is 50% over charger rating. We just wanted to see how much safety margin we have. What's interesting is where the bottleneck is - a diode bridge... PCB! After ~20 min at the above power, the AC traces basically exploded. We are now working on sourcing power PCBs made from 3oz copper (as opposed to ~1.25 oz we currently have). Following that, we expect to be able to release the 15kW and maybe even 20kW versions. Probably not going to happen in the next month, though. Again, at the 12kW rated power output of the current charger version, this issue does not exist at all so you are all safe. 

3. Tested a couple of new IGBTs - all with same basic rating but a bit better switching characteristics. Seem to be running quite a bit cooler - by 10C at max power which is significant. Problem is, of course, that these cost ~$100 more for 2 units we need for the PFC version of the charger. For now, we will supply these if requested as a special order at the above cost premium. Let us know when ordering. 

Let us know if any questions.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> great couple of stress testing sessions over the last few days. Quick summary:
> 
> 1. tested 100A continuous output (into a 70VDC battery but should scale up to 12kW rated power). Everything's good after ~50 min (full charge of the pack). Will try 125A in the next couple of days. Note that you need to wound your inductor differently for this - a little fewer turns, a lot more strands of wire. Same core, though. To support these new developments, we will be moving to 100A current sensors on the output starting next month (or earlier per special requests). This will allow us to go up to ~130A before sensor saturation. In summary, you can charge your 120VDC pack at 100A now! Quick charging is here - at ~$1K kit price.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery,

Has mine been shipped yet? if not I'd be interested in the improved current sensor!


----------



## Jordysport (Mar 22, 2009)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Has mine been shipped yet? if not I'd be interested in the improved current sensor!


Put it this way if it hasn't I'm going to fuming! should be with me on Monday or Tuesday they said Mike.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Jordysport said:


> Put it this way if it hasn't I'm going to fuming! should be with me on Monday or Tuesday they said Mike.


Awesome 

I might look for a larger current sensor locally.

If I could push 12KW (3.5hr charge) from this then it makes my car perfect for 100% of my routine driving.

Might be fine on the current spec but if not then it looks like the obvious upgrade path.


----------



## Snakub (Sep 8, 2008)

I just finished my homemade version of your charger and the lcd just goes to lifepo4 to nimh/nicad and flashes between those rapidly and pushing the buttons just makes it go faster the charger is not hooked to a battery bank and the two 40 ma current sensors aren't hooked to high voltage other than that everything is wired up what could be the problem?


----------



## toledi (Mar 7, 2011)

Many thanks to Valery for this great charger.


I just finish assembling my charger v7.1 (non PFC), using it on 220V AC only.

I want to charge my Pb pack (8 Pb batteries 12V/100Ah in series) 96V / 100Ah
*In the calibration what is the CV number for Pb?*
I try 225 (2.25V per cell), and 48 cells - not working - LCD writes Batteries not connected., when I press button, Duty= 0% and stays like that forever
I try 14 (14V per battery), and 8 cells - not working - LCD: charging complete
(I unlock/unkomment the Pb settings in software v7.1 as instructed by Valery)


I try charging LiFePo4 and charger works fine. Here is the picture:


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Awesome
> 
> I might look for a larger current sensor locally.
> 
> ...


All orders since ~mid Nov are shipping with new toroid inductors and are rated for 70A. You can push 100A through if you are careful about inductor cooling. Generally, you should not allow the core heat up more than ~120C. At 70A and the recommended fan setup (2 5-7W fans), inductors get to ~80-90C. 

You *will* need to use a different current sensor if you want to push beyond 70A (sensor rated at 50A and is saturating at ~75A so pushing beyond 70A is actually quite dangerous as the charger will see fixed 75A readout while the actual current grows uncontrollably). We will be shipping the 100A rated sensor starting from now. The charger will still be rated at 70A though - you would need to request a high-current option in order for us to wound and ship higher-current inductors. For now, that option is free.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

valerun said:


> All orders since ~mid Nov are shipping with new toroid inductors and are rated for 70A. You can push 100A through if you are careful about inductor cooling. Generally, you should not allow the core heat up more than ~120C. At 70A and the recommended fan setup (2 5-7W fans), inductors get to ~80-90C.
> 
> You *will* need to use a different current sensor if you want to push beyond 70A (sensor rated at 50A and is saturating at ~75A so pushing beyond 70A is actually quite dangerous as the charger will see fixed 75A readout while the actual current grows uncontrollably). We will be shipping the 100A rated sensor starting from now. The charger will still be rated at 70A though - you would need to request a high-current option in order for us to wound and ship higher-current inductors. For now, that option is free.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I am aiming at building this charger, but a have a few questions:

What will i need to do to downgrade the circuit to 3KW and most importantly keep the inrush current low, so the 13A breaker wont cut


Can I later change the output voltage? I currently charge 4 packs at 144V, but that may change later to 2 packs at 288V


Can I use a 600V 50Amp IGBT and smaller/less capacitors?


Are the transformers or any inductors on the power supply custom winded? 


Thanks, Carlos


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

cts_casemod said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am aiming at building this charger, but a have a few questions:
> 
> ...


Hi Carlos - 

Well, just using design as-is would work fine at 3kW and will be fully programmable at any time for any battery voltage / configuration. 

Now, assuming you want to reduce overall costs by downgrading components, here are some suggestions:
* No need for 2 bridges - use just one
* Bulk capacitance is ~power so can be reduced by a factor of 3
* 50A IGBTs would be plenty
* off-the shelf inductors can be used BUT make sure to increase inductance by ~3x relative to 10kW design

Hope this helps.

Needless to say, you would need to completely redesign power board.

Why 3kw when you can have 12kw? ;-)

V


----------



## adeyo (Jun 6, 2012)

Hi, I've been looking at this charger for some time. I recently purchased an incomplete EV project... It was in the EV America kit on a 98 Chevy s10. I might also move on to an AC project if I'm successfully completing this S 10. Also, I am currently installing a 10 kilowatt solar panel system on my home with a sunny island inverter/bms system to enable me to go off the grid. 

So... Where is this all going? 

I am wondering if I made this charger, will it work for both my S 10 and potential future AC Vehicles if I use different battery types? 

Also, is it possible to use the sunny island as a charger for my electric vehicle? (and thereby not spend money on making this charger) it has up to 26kw output. Specs here : http://www.affordable-solar.com/store/archive-sma-inverters/sma-sunny-island-5048U-inverter


----------



## adeyo (Jun 6, 2012)

Also, if this is possible could it be used as a fast charger? (above post)


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adeyo said:


> Hi, I've been looking at this charger for some time. I recently purchased an incomplete EV project... It was in the EV America kit on a 98 Chevy s10. I might also move on to an AC project if I'm successfully completing this S 10. Also, I am currently installing a 10 kilowatt solar panel system on my home with a sunny island inverter/bms system to enable me to go off the grid.
> 
> So... Where is this all going?
> 
> ...


Hi adeyo,

well, the Sunny Island you linked to is just a 120VAC output system (I suspect they do also provide 240VAC output at higher power levels but still it's just an AC output). You still need a charger to convert that AC power into the right charging DC voltage / current profile. So you wouldn't be able to get away just with the inverter.

This charger can be used with any battery voltage from ~12V up to ~400V before you have to start changing elements of design. I know people who are using this design at 700V output votages (with some mods such as different IGBTs, caps, and redesigned power PCBs).

On your fast charger question - did you mean the charger or the inverter [can be used to fast charge]? Assuming it's the former, it all depends on your definition of 'fast charging'. We have by now shipped a few units with 100A max output current (still limited at 12kW output power). For vast majority of people, this is pretty fast charging. 

That said, we are now working on a high-power / high-voltage (300VDC+) design that will be able to do 100-150A output at 350VDC from AC. We have a 15kW version of that working on our bench now. 

We are also working on a high-power (~100kW, 300A output version that will charge from a DC source). We have a 20kW version of this working on our bench now. 

Both of these are ~2 months away from becoming products that we would be ready to release. 

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

from one of the recent tests of the 100A output unit going to one of our customers. AH counter runs pretty fast at that rate ;-))


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

check out http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=339138#post339138

Just branched out our HV High-Power charger discussion there. We just tested a 40kW PFC charger (still operating off single-phase 240VAC supply).

V


----------



## adeyo (Jun 6, 2012)

valerun said:


> Sunny Island you linked to is just a 120VAC output system (I suspect they do also provide 240VAC output at higher power levels but still it's just an AC output). You still need a charger to convert that AC power into the right charging DC voltage / current profile. So you wouldn't be able to get away just with the inverter.
> 
> ........................
> 
> On your fast charger question - did you mean the charger or the inverter [can be used to fast charge]? Assuming it's the former, it all depends on your definition of 'fast charging'. We have by now shipped a few units with 100A max output current (still limited at 12kW output power). For vast majority of people, this is pretty fast charging.


The unique thing about the sunny island is it has a built in bms system as well as charger. It works in conjunction with their sunny boy inverter. When the grid goes down, the Sunny Island kicks in and regulates the current from the PV system to charge a battery bank for off grid use. It then uses the connected (48v) battery bank to run power to the home. (i believe it sends dc power back to the connected sunny boy inverter to create ac power again.) I don't completely understand it yet but I have spoken to one of their techs. I've also spoken to a dc solar tech. They used the sunny island to charge the world record breaking electric motorcycle out in the desert (using their own battery generator)..... On another note, they are limited to 56amps output. Also, they are only designed for nicad, lead acid and one other type of battery (can't remember). They said I could use lithium but it's unsupported. 

......................................... 

On another note, how quickly do you think I could charge an ev with 144v battery (approx 20kw) using your charger connected to my home? I still don't really have a good grasp of this. Abs if i stay away from lithium, do you recommend any other 'cheaper' battery type over the others? 

I appreciate your response! I'm moving forward one step at a time and learning what I can from these forums. I think I'm probably going to try to buy one of your chargers somehow, as I'm not confident enough to make my own!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adeyo said:


> The unique thing about the sunny island is it has a built in bms system as well as charger. It works in conjunction with their sunny boy inverter. When the grid goes down, the Sunny Island kicks in and regulates the current from the PV system to charge a battery bank for off grid use. It then uses the connected (48v) battery bank to run power to the home. (i believe it sends dc power back to the connected sunny boy inverter to create ac power again.) I don't completely understand it yet but I have spoken to one of their techs. I've also spoken to a dc solar tech. They used the sunny island to charge the world record breaking electric motorcycle out in the desert (using their own battery generator)..... On another note, they are limited to 56amps output. Also, they are only designed for nicad, lead acid and one other type of battery (can't remember). They said I could use lithium but it's unsupported.
> 
> .........................................
> 
> ...


Sure, this is why these forums exist.

12kw rating of the charger means you will be able to recharge your 20kwhr battery in ~1 hr 40 min.


----------



## adeyo (Jun 6, 2012)

valerun said:


> Sure, this is why these forums exist.
> 
> 12kw rating of the charger means you will be able to recharge your 20kwhr battery in ~1 hr 40 min.


Thank you! 

Is there a simple formula to calculate this? Let's say I bump up my battery to 25kw, how do i calculate the charge time then?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

toledi said:


> Many thanks to Valery for this great charger.
> 
> 
> I just finish assembling my charger v7.1 (non PFC), using it on 220V AC only.
> ...


Hi - did you get this working for Lead Acid batteries? If not, pls PM / email me.

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

adeyo said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Is there a simple formula to calculate this? Let's say I bump up my battery to 25kw, how do i calculate the charge time then?


25 / 12 = ~2 hrs.


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## adeyo (Jun 6, 2012)

Thanks... That makes sense


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

I'm currently building the v9 kit.

Could you confirm the capacitors required for C38-C42?

The manual states:



> 2 10uF caps: C38-39
> 2 100uF caps: C40-41


Your Bill of materials states:



> C38-C39 10uF
> C40 50uF
> C41-C42 100 - 330uF


http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/EMW-10000_BOM-V09.2.xlsx

Included in the kit are:


3 * 10uF
8 * 47uF
1 * 100uF
1 * 330uF
Just wanted to confirm before soldering it!


Cheers,


Mike


----------



## adeyo (Jun 6, 2012)

Has anyone thought of a YouTube video (edited down a little of course) for creating this charger. I feel add if i watched it done, I would have the confidence to attempt it myself. I've built computers and soldered a little, but this concept intimidates me!


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

adeyo said:


> Has anyone thought of a YouTube video (edited down a little of course) for creating this charger. I feel add if i watched it done, I would have the confidence to attempt it myself. I've built computers and soldered a little, but this concept intimidates me!


It seems relatively easy, I have about the same experience as you and I'm finding it fine other than the EMW build photos, bill of materials and build instructions all contradicting eachother!

Other than that it seems like a well thought out kit, the PCBs are good quality and well laid out.

I'm starting a build thread for the charger which I will update with loads of descriptions and photos. See my sig.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I'm currently building the v9 kit.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - thanks for noting - in the recent tweaks, some of the materials have gotten slightly out of sync. We just fixed that last week - please refer to the updated manuals on the site. 

That said, the only conflict in the above lists I see is a 100-330uF range for C41-42 instead of just 100uF. Those caps' values are not critical, as long as in that range.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi Mike - thanks for noting - in the recent tweaks, some of the materials have gotten slightly out of sync. We just fixed that last week - please refer to the updated manuals on the site.
> 
> That said, the only conflict in the above lists I see is a 100-330uF range for C41-42 instead of just 100uF. Those caps' values are not critical, as long as in that range.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery,

That makes sense.

What size cap should be in C40? 50uF or 100uF?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> That makes sense.
> 
> ...


50uF is fine


----------



## wessss77 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey Valerun....okay so I am getting my pack in next week 120v 260Ah...if i read this right I should if i have the 60Amp service line and your charger, I should be able to fully charge from "empty" in about 2.5 hours. If i pull up to a local charge station that may only be 30 amp service it may take twice as long?? 4 times as long on a 15A?? I like the setup and am seriously looking at this. How long should it take to put a kit together myself if i ordered the PFC kit and I can hold and use a soldering iron...rough guesstimate...I may take the more secure way and let you guys put it together for me.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

wessss77 said:


> Hey Valerun....okay so I am getting my pack in next week 120v 260Ah...if i read this right I should if i have the 60Amp service line and your charger, I should be able to fully charge from "empty" in about 2.5 hours. If i pull up to a local charge station that may only be 30 amp service it may take twice as long?? 4 times as long on a 15A?? I like the setup and am seriously looking at this. How long should it take to put a kit together myself if i ordered the PFC kit and I can hold and use a soldering iron...rough guesstimate...I may take the more secure way and let you guys put it together for me.


Hi wessss77, 

yes, 60A line is optimal. Your math is roughly correct. You will need to specify 'high-current' option during ordering so we wind your inductor for 100A output current (otherwise limited to 70A). Also, due to the last CV step having reducing current (any Lithium battery charger does this), 260AH will take more than 260/100=2.6 hrs to charge. I'd say 0-100% would be 3 hrs in your case, 2hrs from 10% to 90% (which is a more realistic scenario anyway).

If you have experience assembling electronics and have good attention to details, putting a kit together is pretty easy. With all the tools ready, it will take you about 50 hours to get it done - from kit to assembled unit in the box. Ideally, in addition to the usual tools, you would also have a scope and infrared thermometer.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

No thermistor was supplied with my kit (along with a selection of other parts)

What spec of thermistor would you recommend?

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## shockersdud (Jan 27, 2013)

valerun said:


> Hi All,
> 
> [Initial concept of this charger is based on the design originally appearing at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...build-your-own-intelligent-charger-36627.html (Simonrafferty's thread). As that thread is now 50+ pages long, I decided to break this one into its own thread. For all the gory technical details leading into this design, please refer to the above thread.]
> 
> ...


Just started my electronics carrier. I am trying to design my own motor and will surely need experts guidance. I will post my problems in later posts. Please help me then


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> No thermistor was supplied with my kit (along with a selection of other parts)
> 
> ...


Valery,

I have sent you several emails over the last week or so. Please check your spam folder. I am writing here as I guess you read forum emails.

I have several parts missing. Please confirm the spec for the thermistor.

Also, I am missing the ac adaptor, your BOM says it should be included.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> No thermistor was supplied with my kit (along with a selection of other parts)
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - thermistor is a really small part - pls make sure you check the sides of the box etc - it's a bead 1mm wide with very thin leads.

Anyway, pls email to valery at emotorwerks dot com with the list of parts. Please note that a lot of the spaces on the driver PCB are not populated in the non-PFC version - and therefore those parts are not supplied. Please make sure you refer to the right version of the build manual / BOM.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Valery,
> 
> I have sent you several emails over the last week or so. Please check your spam folder. I am writing here as I guess you read forum emails.
> 
> ...


sorry did not get those. Could not find in the Spam folder, as well. Which address did you use? Also, see my reply above re parts


----------



## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

I finished putting together the charger to all of the specification and tested all of the connections yet I still can not see my batteries. 
. I uploaded the latest software and the charger will still not see my batteries. I have battery voltage to the Vout of the driver board that’s it. The power board is dead or not receiving power due to the diode , however the driver board and control board seem to be working fine, all pins are cleared, continuity and power.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

kittplayer said:


> I finished putting together the charger to all of the specification and tested all of the connections yet I still can not see my batteries.
> . I uploaded the latest software and the charger will still not see my batteries. I have battery voltage to the Vout of the driver board that’s it. The power board is dead or not receiving power due to the diode , however the driver board and control board seem to be working fine, all pins are cleared, continuity and power.


Did you go through the testing procedure? Light bulb, heater etc? Does it ramp up the duty cycle as mentioned in the process?
Is it a PFC nonPFC? A photo or two helps since it can be easy to pick large issues, the build instructions aren't that great.


----------



## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

I didnt get that far, I am in the initial stage where it says to connect 30-60V batteries for calibration. I have the AC adapter plugged into the wall bypassing the AC into board.(AC0, AC1)


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kittplayer said:


> I didnt get that far, I am in the initial stage where it says to connect 30-60V batteries for calibration. I have the AC adapter plugged into the wall bypassing the AC into board.(AC0, AC1)


Hi kittplayer - thanks for posting here! Could you pls post a few good pics of your setup, with critical board-to-board and Vout connections visible?

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## qryptiq (Dec 29, 2012)

Valery

The measurements - is that in Inches?


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

kittplayer said:


> I didnt get that far, I am in the initial stage where it says to connect 30-60V batteries for calibration. I have the AC adapter plugged into the wall bypassing the AC into board.(AC0, AC1)


Do you have the voltage sense wire connected on the power board side of the diode or the output side of the diode? (it should be the output side)


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kittplayer said:


> I didnt get that far, I am in the initial stage where it says to connect 30-60V batteries for calibration. I have the AC adapter plugged into the wall bypassing the AC into board.(AC0, AC1)


Assuming you see the battery voltage on the Vout pin of the driver board.

Next I would check the input voltage of the white 7520 chip (see datasheet attached; voltage between pins 2 and 3 needs to be measured) - you should see a small (~100mV for 70V battery) voltage change when you connect / disconnect the battery. If that passes, I would then check the output of the 7520 chip (between pins 7 and 6). The voltage change on the output should be ~10x the voltage change on the input. If that passes, check the voltage on the corresponding pin of the Arduino (check the code for the right pin number).

[note to others: this applies only to non-PFC with a V9.4+ driver board version as described on our site - this version uses a slightly different voltage sensing approach for battery voltage]

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

This is anon PFC system.


----------



## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

To the output side of the Diode


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kittplayer said:


> To the output side of the Diode


kittplayer - see email. I think the reason is the orientation of the driver board. let us know if that helps.

thx!


----------



## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

Fixed the board oreintation while the computer seems to have gotten a bit zippier, I still cannot see the batteries.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

kittplayer said:


> Fixed the board oreintation while the computer seems to have gotten a bit zippier, I still cannot see the batteries.


see email response


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

some cool related stuff posted in our 25-40kW charger thread at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/25-40kw-pfc-charger-high-voltage-82629.html...


----------



## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

Are there schematics and PCB layout available somewhere? I didn't find it.

I actually wanted to order a kit but I would have to pay customs, import tax and high shipping costs, which is a bit annoying.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

marc02228 said:


> Are there schematics and PCB layout available somewhere? I didn't find it.
> 
> I actually wanted to order a kit but I would have to pay customs, import tax and high shipping costs, which is a bit annoying.


Hi marc02228 - check out http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7

Also sent you a PM.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi marc02228 - check out http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7
> 
> Also sent you a PM.
> 
> ...


Cool, thanks Valery.

Curious, that I didn't find this page. I was searching for 20 minutes or so^^


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

Quick question,

I'm having height issues with my enclosure (old fuel tank)

Are there any issue with extending the connections between the power and driver boards?

The top of the tank is about half an inch above the caps which is just about OK but the board sits slightly higher and would be too close for comfort.

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Quick question,
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - sorry for delay (didn't get notification of your post for some reason). 

up to 5cm extension is usually ok. Make sure you tightly twist the gate driver wires.

Thanks,
valery


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> Hi Mike - sorry for delay (didn't get notification of your post for some reason).
> 
> up to 5cm extension is usually ok. Make sure you tightly twist the gate driver wires.
> 
> ...


PERFECT!

Its all going to fit 

Thanks a million.


----------



## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

For use in Europe on 240v with 16amp fuse for instance, which mode could it be used on? And if on 3 phases? How would it be wired?
Also, how long would it take to charge 24 or 28 100Ah LifePo4 cells in series
then at those scenarios?

Thanks!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Red Neck said:


> For use in Europe on 240v with 16amp fuse for instance, which mode could it be used on? And if on 3 phases? How would it be wired?
> Also, how long would it take to charge 24 or 28 100Ah LifePo4 cells in series
> then at those scenarios?
> 
> Thanks!


3-phase is possible but only on 208/240V 3-phase, not on Europe's standard 400V 3-phase. The latter results in rectified voltage that's higher than rating of most of the components.

Assuming 240V 16A service, 28 100Ah cells (~100V CV point) will be charged from 0% to 100% in ~3 hours.

If you have access to your electrical panel, I would try to install a 60A breaker to take full advantage of this unit.

hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks. So with a 60 Amp breaker, it could be charged in inder an hour, 45 minutes?


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Red Neck said:


> Thanks. So with a 60 Amp breaker, it could be charged in inder an hour, 45 minutes?


You may want to check, but from my knowledge the recommended charging current for a 100Ah LiFePo4 is 30A, charging at a higher current will reduce the life of the cells


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

> charging at a higher current will reduce the life of the cells


Actually it is not really proven yet. We know that running them at higher temps is actually good for them. Can't imagine lowering the life more than what they would normally loose. As long as you don't overcharge or over discharge I see no reason to not fast charge.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

And if the reduction is like very minimal percentages over its life then its really not an issue.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> And if the reduction is like very minimal percentages over its life then its really not an issue.


I prefer (considering the money invested) to fallow the manufacturer instructions, and for my CALB SE100AH is 0.3C=30A.

Was just a suggestion, anyone can feel free to experiment, I have nothing against that  .


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So how is your truck doing with 100AH cells? What is your amp draw from them? Range?


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> So how is your truck doing with 100AH cells? What is your amp draw from them? Range?


I never saw more than 180A on hard acceleration on battery side, due to weather conditions the range test are postpone . I am very happy with it. Top speed is 80Mph. Today I drive it for 35 miles with the heater on, 20 miles at 65Mph and the rest at 30-40Mph and I used 50A. BTW I have no intentions to go lower than 20% SOC which means 80A useable @ 320V.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

So basically you will have about 25.6 usable kWh pack. Nice. You should get a decent range with that. I get 70 miles average at freeway speeds of 55 to 60 mph. With heat less and with air in the summer still about 70 miles because in the summer the car can go further and I only have a 24kWh pack which is not fully used either. 

I think you will really like your car for a very long time. 

Excellent. I only charge at about the same rate. But that is because my charger is only so big. For my VW roadster I will FAST charge with a stationary DC and charge at about 50 to 75 amps. I have done so at 150 but that was a tough one with my stationary pack. 

Will look forward to hearing about your distance tests at 80%. 

Pete


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Red Neck said:


> Thanks. So with a 60 Amp breaker, it could be charged in inder an hour, 45 minutes?


~1 hr. Charging slows down after ~90-95% SOC


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

I would be charging bottom balanced cells to 90% or maybe 95% SOC max
anyway and would want the charger to shut off the moment it reaches 3.5v per cell for instance. And I am not too worried about lifetime of cells. Besides, I too made experiments with charging them at 3C and even slightly higher between 20 and 90% SOC and they appear to handle it wonderfully. I just did it on level
of individual cells, not the pack since I don't have a charger for that. Yet 

So to 95% SOC max, it would take 45 minutes or even less?

Thanks


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

I would like to share my experiences of fast charging/discharging A123 26650 LiFe cells that myself and some friends used in R/C helicopters for a while. The LiFe cells are 2.3Ah 3.6V cells that are factory rated to discharge up to 70A continuous, 120A burst, with a factory recommended fast charge of 4C, 10A and have a cycle life of over *1000 cycles at 10c discharge/1c charge.* We pulled them out of Dewalt 36V drill packs before you could get them as loose cells. We *killed the packs in about 250-300 cycles of fast charging/discharging them.* By killed I mean reduced the capacity to about 50%. We stopped using them because lighter, higher output, cheaper taiwan lipos became available. So, if our LiFe car cells have a *stated life at 0.3C charge, 3C discharge, most likely, you will see only 25-30% of the stated life cycle if you fast charge/discharge them.* This is just a guess, base on years of abusing NiCads, Nimhs, LiFe, & Lipo batteries in R/C toys. I have a Lipo battery in my R/C transmitter that has lived for 6 years now, having been charged at 0.1C, with hundreds of partial charges, and discharged at a very low rate. The same battery in a R/C heli with a high discharge rate would last about 75 cycles to 50% capacity. The point of all this is *Fast Charge/Discharge = Major loss in battery life.* It is possible that a partial fast charge, in the middle of the batterys cycle area, *might* not hurt the batterys cycle life, but taking it up to the CV point will.
I'm willing to play around with a $30-$100 R/C pack, but I'm really trying to baby my $5000 Calib , 45S, 100Ah, car pack, so that I can get 10, or more years out of it. 
Joe


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

It is likely, that you also overcharged them a bit? The trick with lithium is to stop at about 95% of less in terms of state of charge. They do not even begin
to seriously heat up by 90%...


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Red Neck said:


> It is likely, that you also overcharged them a bit? The trick with lithium is to stop at about 95% of less in terms of state of charge. They do not even begin
> to seriously heat up by 90%...


JoeG talks about charging faster than what's recommended. I have no experience with LiFePO4, but read every scientific paper I could find online, and they all confirm his experience. 

The two rules I've learned from paper are: 

1. Charge as slow and low as you can afford. 
2. And stay in the middle. In other words keep away from both ends.

So if you're going to need e.g. half of your total capacity. Charge to 75% SOC and discharge to 25%. If you’re going to need 30%, charge to 65% and discharge to 35%. This way they will live much longer and a lot happier.

Another rule is: Keep them cool, but not cold. They're prety human if it comes to temperature. In a cool climate they live longer. 

For maximum performance they have to get warm. But they will die younger.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Jan said:


> JoeG talks about charging faster than what's recommended. I have no experience with LiFePO4, but read every scientific paper I could find online, and they all confirm his experience.
> 
> The two rules I've learned from paper are:
> 
> ...


all very true. We look at the fast charge capability as a valuable option. After we put in our first 40kW units, we found ourselves using our 100-mile range cars quite a bit more on the weekends. Our typical trip on a weekend is 40-60 miles round-trip. When you can top up back to 95% in 30 min at home, you stop noticing the range limitation altogether. 

Yes, every fast-charge at 100A+ takes a bit of battery life with it but we do it just 2-3 times / week, out of total of ~10 charges / week.

With the size of a 40kW unit being the same as older versions of our 10kW charger (12x11x8" steel box), this is a nice option to have.

V


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Jan said:


> Another rule is: Keep them cool, but not cold. They're prety human if it comes to temperature. In a cool climate they live longer.
> 
> For maximum performance they have to get warm. But they will die younger.


On a recent episode of EVTV Jack mentioned he had read a life cycle study of LiFePo4 that indicated operation at elevated temperature of 55C actually gave the best overall life. I have not read this study but it makes sense to me although it is opposite behavior of other types of batteries.

It is pretty tough to charge too fast from a household circuit. I have a 52 cell pack of 100AH cells which means a peak voltage of 187.2 volts during charge. To hit the max charge rate of 3C would require 56160 watts into the battery near the end of charge and if the charger is 90% efficient that means you need to draw 62.4kw from the grid. This would be 260 amps from a 240 volt service. Most houses only have a 200 amp service. Currently it is impossible to even reach 3C if you use all of your homes available current. If you assume it is safe to use half your houses circuit you can charge at 24kw into the charger which means at 90% efficiency in the charger the car will see 21.6kw. This would be 115 amps at the end of charge and 138 amps if the pack was nearly empty so a little over 1C in my case. A 10kw charger like the EMW one would only do .64C at the start and .53C near the end on a pack like mine which is not a particularly large one.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

dougingraham said:


> On a recent episode of EVTV Jack mentioned he had read a life cycle study of LiFePo4 that indicated operation at elevated temperature of 55C actually gave the best overall life. I have not read this study but it makes sense to me although it is opposite behavior of other types of batteries.
> 
> It is pretty tough to charge too fast from a household circuit. I have a 52 cell pack of 100AH cells which means a peak voltage of 187.2 volts during charge. To hit the max charge rate of 3C would require 56160 watts into the battery near the end of charge and if the charger is 90% efficient that means you need to draw 62.4kw from the grid. This would be 260 amps from a 240 volt service. Most houses only have a 200 amp service. Currently it is impossible to even reach 3C if you use all of your homes available current. If you assume it is safe to use half your houses circuit you can charge at 24kw into the charger which means at 90% efficiency in the charger the car will see 21.6kw. This would be 115 amps at the end of charge and 138 amps if the pack was nearly empty so a little over 1C in my case. A 10kw charger like the EMW one would only do .64C at the start and .53C near the end on a pack like mine which is not a particularly large one.


On Calib Power website if you look at SE100AH you will see that the Recommend Charging/Discharging current is 0.3C = 30A, so can you explain your 3C charging current you use in your example ? . A higher current probably won't do to much harm for a few seconds in regeneration mode, but regular charging at 3C will be bad for the cell life.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

CALB and any other manufacturer can only recommend the settings they used to get the rated result. They haven't tested 3C charging for 2000 cycles, nor has anyone else (that's published it). They can't possibly test everything that we may try, though I wish they would do and publish much more.

Doug is referencing 3C charging tests done by Jack R on EVTV. He demonstrated that fast charging could be done to a high SOC and the only significant heating (which is what is assumed to be what wears down other batteries when fast charging) was caused in the last couple % and occurred when slow charging to spec as well.


----------



## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

TEV said:


> On Calib Power website if you look at SE100AH you will see that the Recommend Charging/Discharging current is 0.3C = 30A, so can you explain your 3C charging current you use in your example ? . A higher current probably won't do to much harm for a few seconds in regeneration mode, but regular charging at 3C will be bad for the cell life.


Sure. The GBS cells I have along with others like the CALB CA series all specify a maximum charge rate of 3C. Jack Rickard even demonstrated only a 10 degree temp increase on a 3C charge rate of the CALB CA series. This was around a 95% capacity charge in about 20 minutes. The cell seemed none the worse for it. Of course there is no way to tell how much lifespan was lost if any.

I am pretty sure we can't make a valid claim of cycle life reduction at higher charge rates because nobody has done the testing (or nobody has published the test results). The RC Hobby guys have beat up the A123 26650 cells , sometimes charging at 10C or more and have seen reduction in life. But they also really beat them up on the discharge side sometimes exceeding 30C. So which is it that is killing them? Probably the heat.

My point was that you can't even get to 1C with a 10kw charger with my pack that I consider small. Its not much of an issue because you just dont have a big enough connection to the grid at your home even if you had access to a charger that could do it.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> Sure. The GBS cells I have along with others like the CALB CA series all specify a maximum charge rate of 3C.


CALB seems to be the only big name that doesn't say 3C max for charging, just 1C, and just 2C discharge but we assume they can do more and pulse isn't even mentioned.


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

The reason I'm following this thread is that I'm in the market for a 33A, 160V charger so that I can charge my 100Ah cells once in a while at 0.3C or 33A. As Val says, it would increase the usablity of my EV. If you have 180Ah cells, 54A would be required to reach that level and Val's charger one of the options to do this if you like to tinker. I posted the above fast charge info for the people with no battery experiance, who might not know that fast charging at 1C, on a 0.3C recommend rate cell will come with a price. As for my R/C fast charging we were using chargers that balanced and controlled each cell in the pack to a specific cut-off voltage, not bulk charging , with separate BMS systems like we do with car packs. As a side note, we did do some Zip charging of A123 2.3Ah packs, directly connecting a 4S pack to a 12V auto pack to charge them at 45A, or about *20C*, or about a *3 minute charge time*. . You controlled charge rate by charge cable length only. The cells didn't get more than warm until the last 10% or so. We were using sketchy analog termination circuits, so packs with that treatment were only good for about 20 cycles.
Cheers,
Joe


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

JoeG said:


> We were using sketchy analog termination circuits, so packs with that treatment were only good for about 20 cycles.
> Cheers,
> Joe


sounds like fun times, Joe ;-)

Anyway, based on our experience designing, testing (and blowing up LOL) all kinds of power electronics, on-board AC charging above 1-1.5C really doesn't make much sense - the charger becomes too heavy (inductors), you can't get away with relatively cheap 200A IGBTs, caps need to be upgraded, cooling becomes an issue, etc.

Off-board is different as you don't care as much about the weight. The next problem you hit is 200A max house draw, which means 150A realistic draw, or ~30-32kW (remember that you're not going to get 240V on your charger once you draw 150A...). And even at 150A, we are only getting ~100A or 1C into our 320VDC nominal packs.

To get faster than that in a residential setting, you would have to go DC-DC from one pack into another. Expensive, of course. But quick. Just did 3C using our freshly built DIY controller (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/another-diy-dc-controller-mock-60262p8.html, post #147). From a 420V pack into a 320V pack in the car. The use case here would be reusing the main controller as a DC-DC charger with motor as an inductor. Then you would only need a PFC front-end for AC charging - instead of the complete 2-stage charger - and can benefit from ~2x increase in power density.

V


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## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Yes Val, I agree. That's why I wrote "..can afford". I mean that of course in respect to time, not money. And I should have added: "This way the occasional fast charge won't hurt as much."


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

*Not isolated during charge?*

When not charging my pack measures as well isolated from the frame. 
I charge using a 240V J1772 connection and during charge the car frame is well grounded to earth per the standard J1772 setup.
However, during charge (using this EMW charger), I get ~-8V from ground (car frame) to pack positive and ~-168V from ground to pack negative (my pack is ~160V nominal).

Is that normal? I've seen mention that this is a non-isolated charger; is that how it manifests? It seems strange.
I tried to measure the resistance of that connection during charge, but just managed to trip the EVSE's ground fault detection. At least I know that works well


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Not isolated during charge?*



swoozle said:


> When not charging my pack measures as well isolated from the frame.
> I charge using a 240V J1772 connection and during charge the car frame is well grounded to earth per the standard J1772 setup.
> However, during charge (using this EMW charger), I get ~-8V from ground (car frame) to pack positive and ~-168V from ground to pack negative (my pack is ~160V nominal).
> 
> ...


Yes there would be voltage detected from pack to ground when using non-isolated chargers. Rectified 120 is ~165VDC. I am sure that's what you see from ground to pack negative. Then the positive is same voltage with your pack voltage subtracted. 

The GFCI circuit is working as you mentioned so no real danger here. 

All the public charging stations have GFCI protection. For extra safety, we recommend installing GFCI breaker on the circuit at your house that you use for the charger. You could also install one right in your car along with a charger, too.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey Everyone,

I finally have all of the parts to build my EMW Charger, here are parts that I have added to the liquid cooled PFC version with IGBT upgrade.

-Swiftech 240mm heat exchanger with integrated resivor and pump
- 240v 50a Flanged twist lock receptacle
- 12v 60 watt power supply
- Anderson Powerpole connector for DC out
- Bud Industries 10" X 17" X 5" Alum enclosure

Here is a pic, more to follow


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

winzeracer said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I finally have all of the parts to build my EMW Charger, here are parts that I have added to the liquid cooled PFC version with IGBT upgrade.
> 
> ...


If I do not have a fan on the PFC inductor, will that cause a problem?


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

winzeracer said:


> If I do not have a fan on the PFC inductor, will that cause a problem?


Yes
Those things get seriously hot when running the charger


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

winzeracer said:


> If I do not have a fan on the PFC inductor, will that cause a problem?


you don't have to have a fan right on the inductor but it should be in the direct airflow. See the Solidworks design pic attached for a preferred placement


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok I should be ok, I have a fan right on the Output Inductor, and will have a vent near the both inductors. 

I found a local "hackerspace" (new to me, google it), and will be lasercutting some cool vents and a plexiglass lid.


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

winzeracer said:


> Ok I should be ok, I have a fan right on the Output Inductor, and will have a vent near the both inductors.
> 
> I found a local "hackerspace" (new to me, google it), and will be lasercutting some cool vents and a plexiglass lid.


Very good tip about the "hackerspace" I would try to visit the Cleveland one.

Thanks.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for the HackerSpace idea. I found one less than 10 miles from me:
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/(Baltimore)_Harford_Hackerspace
http://baltimorehackerspace.com/

However, the ones I found seem to be concentrated on computers, cryptology, and biology. I'd like to find one with machine shop capabilities (CNC and laser cutting).

This one, in Reston, VA, is about an hour drive but probably more useful:
http://nova-labs.org/blog/


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Does anyone have any pictures of the non-pfc version of this charger that they would be willing to share?

There seems to be plenty of pictures of the PFC version floating around the EMW website and this forum but I can't find much in the way of the non-PFC version.

I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to fit my voltage doubler board and the rest of the boards onto the chill plate and into the box properly.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of the non-pfc version of this charger that they would be willing to share?
> 
> There seems to be plenty of pictures of the PFC version floating around the EMW website and this forum but I can't find much in the way of the non-PFC version.
> 
> I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to fit my voltage doubler board and the rest of the boards onto the chill plate and into the box properly.


Hi Shane - most of the non-PFC kits ship out as air-cooled so not sure if anyone will responds with relevant pics...

In your case, you might have to utilize both sides of the plate and mount it on standoffs.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Valery


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## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

*120V/240V switching*

Valery,

You've got an automated switching setup in your schematics for 120V/240V sensing/switching. What happens if that doesn't work correctly; what are the consequences? 
With 120V source, if the 120 neutral leg is only connected to the bridge you just don't get the voltage doubler working, right? That's fail safe.
But with 240V source, what happens if the other 240V phase is connected between the caps where it shouldn't be? Is that fail safe?

Thanks


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of the non-pfc version of this charger that they would be willing to share?
> 
> There seems to be plenty of pictures of the PFC version floating around the EMW website and this forum but I can't find much in the way of the non-PFC version.
> 
> I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to fit my voltage doubler board and the rest of the boards onto the chill plate and into the box properly.


Hello Yukon_Shane

I have just received the Non-PFC version (air cooled) as a kit from Emotorwerks and will be beginning the build very soon, I currently have photos of the parts supplied but that is it for now, I will be posting details/photos of the build as it progresses on this site, I was going to do this as part of my build thread (First Build Honda Beat EV) unless this thread is a better place for it. (maybe both threads?)

Graham


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hello Yukon_Shane
> 
> I have just received the Non-PFC version (air cooled) as a kit from Emotorwerks and will be beginning the build very soon, I currently have photos of the parts supplied but that is it for now, I will be posting details/photos of the build as it progresses on this site, I was going to do this as part of my build thread (First Build Honda Beat EV) unless this thread is a better place for it. (maybe both threads?)
> 
> Graham


Hi Graham,

that would be great. I'm a bit of a visual thinker and I'm finding the text based instructions a bit of a challenge. Having more pictures in the instructions would help alot and a video would be even better (hint hint Valery). I'll post a few pictures of my progress as well. I think this thread is probably a good place for it unless someone objects (can't see why they would).

Thanks,
Shane


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Shane - most of the non-PFC kits ship out as air-cooled so not sure if anyone will responds with relevant pics...
> 
> In your case, you might have to utilize both sides of the plate and mount it on standoffs.
> 
> ...


I think I understand what your suggesting. Essentially your saying I'll need to sandwich the chill plate between the voltage doubler and the IGBT/Driver board. 

With that in mind I think the easiest thing to do will be to flip the voltage doubler board upside down (caps facing down) and mount it to the lid of the 10x8x7 box with standoffs, then mount the chill plate to the bridge rectifiers on the backside of the voltage doubler board, then mount the IGBT to the other side of the chill plate.

That approach will give me the room I need (almost exactly 7" tall and plent of room in the box for the inductor) but is there any problem having the top of the caps touching the lid of the box? should I use some sillicon on the top of the caps to adhere them and the voltage doubler board to the box or will this cause overheating problems in the caps?

thanks
Shane


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: 120V/240V switching*



swoozle said:


> Valery,
> 
> You've got an automated switching setup in your schematics for 120V/240V sensing/switching. What happens if that doesn't work correctly; what are the consequences?
> With 120V source, if the 120 neutral leg is only connected to the bridge you just don't get the voltage doubler working, right? That's fail safe.
> ...


Good question. No, that's not fail-safe. This would put 670VDC across caps, IGBT and some other components, destroying many. 

That said, probability of that happening is pretty low. The main reason that *might* happen is if your input voltage sensor gets disconnected and Arduino reads low input and decides to double it. However, we have a protection in code for that. So unless you somehow tamper with sensor hardware (resistor dividers, etc.) or software, you should be fine.

Of course, for ultimate fail-safe, we suggest to run 2 separate input lines - one for 110V, one for 240v

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yukon_Shane said:


> but is there any problem having the top of the caps touching the lid of the box? should I use some sillicon on the top of the caps to adhere them and the voltage doubler board to the box or will this cause overheating problems in the caps?
> 
> thanks
> Shane


Hi Shane - you don't want the caps to touch metal box. I would place a 1-2mm insulator (or silicon sealer as you suggest) between them and the box. I'd go for the non-sealing insulator as that would make it easier to disassemble the unit if you need to. 

The doubler caps don't heat up as much so you should be fine. You are going to have some airflow in your box for the inductor anyway, correct?

V


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Shane - you don't want the caps to touch metal box. I would place a 1-2mm insulator (or silicon sealer as you suggest) between them and the box. I'd go for the non-sealing insulator as that would make it easier to disassemble the unit if you need to.
> 
> The doubler caps don't heat up as much so you should be fine. You are going to have some airflow in your box for the inductor anyway, correct?
> 
> V


Sounds good, I'll find a thin insulating material to line the bottom of the box with before mounting the voltage doubler (let me know if you have any suggestions for insulating material). I test fit everything last night and using this approach actually makes everything fit very nicely in a 10x8x7 enclosure. It's really just a matter of getting extra-long standoffs to mount the voltage doubler board to the box.

I will have a large fan directed at the inductor that will also be pulling air through the voltage doubler board caps so they will definately see some airflow. I was just concerned that having them insulated at the top might cause heat problems but if they don't heat up much I'm sure I'll be fine.

thanks again


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

What communication does the EMW charger do with an EVSE? Does it simply pull the EVSE signal low to turn on the relay in the EVSE, or does it do more than that? Does it signal end of charge to the EVSE?

The "quick start" guide states that the end-of-charge trigger in the CV phase is 0.05C. Can the charger be set to charge at output currents less than the 0.05C level (9A for my cells)? If so, how is end of charge determined?

Thanks


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

A couple more questions:

1) Regarding 100A version: from post #823: 


> tested 100A continuous output (into a 70VDC battery but should scale up to 12kW rated power). Everything's good after ~50 min (full charge of the pack). Will try 125A in the next couple of days. *Note that you need to wound your inductor differently for this - a little fewer turns, a lot more strands of wire. Same core, though.* To support these new developments, we will be moving to 100A current sensors on the output starting next month (or earlier per special requests).


Is this now incorporated into the build instructions, i.e. number of turns, wire size?

2) Regarding build video: from post #822: 


> With the latest iterations, it is actually fairly simple. The YouTube video you are referring to details the process for the older version - which was way more complicated than the current process. Now, with all the components placed on PCBs, there is really low probability of errors.
> *PS. I know we owe you guys an updated assembly video* - with all the R&D work on this and some other exciting stuff (to be announced soon), this slipped through cracks a bit. We will try to get this one done this week.


Has this new build video been completed?


Thanks


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> What communication does the EMW charger do with an EVSE? Does it simply pull the EVSE signal low to turn on the relay in the EVSE, or does it do more than that? Does it signal end of charge to the EVSE?
> 
> The "quick start" guide states that the end-of-charge trigger in the CV phase is 0.05C. Can the charger be set to charge at output currents less than the 0.05C level (9A for my cells)? If so, how is end of charge determined?
> 
> Thanks


In addition to pulling down J1772, the charger measures the duty cycle of the and sets the max power based on that. If you then set higher rate through interface, J1772 will override. If no J1772 signal, charger will operate at the power level set through interface.

on 0.05C, you would have to change the code or fake the cell capacity in setup menu (i.e. to get 9A termination point, say that you have 180AH cells).

Hope this helps.

Thx.
V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> A couple more questions:
> 
> 1) Regarding 100A version: from post #823:
> Is this now incorporated into the build instructions, i.e. number of turns, wire size?
> ...


1) not in instructions yet. short version: T520-34D core, 12 strands of 16AWG, 50 turns. Not lightweight... If you have exceptionally good cooling, you may get away with T400-30D, 10 strands, 50 turns.

2) not ready yet. We are waiting on the professionally made enclosures now to do a video with those.

Thanks,
Valery


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

valerun said:


> 1) not in instructions yet. short version: T520-34D core, 12 strands of 16AWG, 50 turns. Not lightweight... If you have exceptionally good cooling, you may get away with T400-30D, 10 strands, 50 turns.
> 
> 2) not ready yet. We are waiting on the professionally made enclosures now to do a video with those.
> 
> ...


Valery,

New Video would be greatly appreciated! Here is a pic of the Laser Cut lid I made at a local Hackerspace.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

winzeracer said:


> Valery,
> 
> New Video would be greatly appreciated! Here is a pic of the Laser Cut lid I made at a local Hackerspace.


nice! do you CNC the rest of the unit, as well?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

got the enclosures - looking good!

will use for all orders from now on.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Looks good! Is it 10"x10"x8" tall? It appears taller.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Looks good! Is it 10"x10"x8" tall? It appears taller.


yes, 10x10x8. maybe it's just the angle that makes it appear taller. 

BTW, we just managed to fit our 25kW high-voltage unit into the same box - testing intelligent control now. Pretty cool new approach - a digital PFC with predictive switch control.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

valerun said:


> http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7,
> Valery


Why the link doesn't work now?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yabert said:


> Why the link doesn't work now?


Hi - please use 

http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7 instead.

we have just launched a new website and not all DIY content was migrated yet


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks
But why the links doesn't work on this page.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Had the same problem.

delete the first part of the URL for the link (http://www.emotorwerks.com) and replace with "http://74.208.162.121" instead.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Of course once you get to that page none of the links on that page work yet either, like the bill of material links, build instructions, or downloads.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Zak650 said:


> Of course once you get to that page none of the links on that page work yet either, like the bill of material links, build instructions, or downloads.


Yep! for example the BOM is now: http://74.208.162.121/VMcharger_V9/EMW-10000_BOM-V09.xlsx


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sorry guys - in the site migration shuffle, some links got broken. We have now restored all links from the page http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7 so you should be able to access without having to replace emotorwerks.com with IP.

We will replicate this page on our new site ASAP (hopefully this weekend). 

Hope you like the new website design more.

Thanks,
Valery


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## DDDvvv (Apr 2, 2012)

Thats a sweet looking panel. Who rolled it out for you? Frontpanelexpress?

I would buy your charger kit, if I was not rolling out my own.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

DDDvvv said:


> Thats a sweet looking panel. Who rolled it out for you? Frontpanelexpress?
> 
> I would buy your charger kit, if I was not rolling out my own.


no, the whole box was custom-built. But that panelexpress is an interesting company - thanks for the link!

do you have a link to your product?

Thanks,
Valery


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## DDDvvv (Apr 2, 2012)

Product ???

Im just the guy trying to charge a battery with a contraption full of spaghetti wiring and some silicon, on my dining table.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

Thought I would update everyone with pictures of the charger. These are from ~ 6 weeks ago, so it doesn't reflect the current state of the charger. It currently has fans and is fully enclosed (except for the top). 
I am using a remotely located LCD & control buttons, placed in a laser cut acrylic enclosure.
Sadly, I still dont have the charger working. i have been suffering from a 'squeal' that occurs when the charger is running. Recently I upgraded from 120v to 330v for the traction pack, and the charger screams when it runs. Heres a video of whats going on, if anyone has advice on what it could be please let me know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJK3etFiwHk

And pics of the charger, I admit I kinda copied RWaudio's charger front plate


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> Thought I would update everyone with pictures of the charger. These are from ~ 6 weeks ago, so it doesn't reflect the current state of the charger. It currently has fans and is fully enclosed (except for the top).
> I am using a remotely located LCD & control buttons, placed in a laser cut acrylic enclosure.
> Sadly, I still dont have the charger working. i have been suffering from a 'squeal' that occurs when the charger is running. Recently I upgraded from 120v to 330v for the traction pack, and the charger screams when it runs. Heres a video of whats going on, if anyone has advice on what it could be please let me know!
> 
> ...


looks very industrial ) love the control box. 

Scream is indicative of the noise pickup on the PFC current sensor line (the one going from 0.003R resistor to the driver board. Couple of things to check:
1. Make sure those 2 wires are tightly twisted
2. Try installing a 100R resistor between IsS and IsG pins of the driver board 5-pin connector
3. Try installing an additional 0.1uF cap parallel to C34

Also, let us know when you start hearing the noise - usually it appears beyond certain current. The reason you did not hear it before is that your power output was limited by max output current until you've upgraded to 300V pack.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

valerun said:


> looks very industrial ) love the control box.
> 
> Scream is indicative of the noise pickup on the PFC current sensor line (the one going from 0.003R resistor to the driver board. Couple of things to check:
> 1. Make sure those 2 wires are tightly twisted
> ...


Thanks 
Quick response! As per our emails, all of the modifications were completed on the charger. In the video, there is a 100 ohm resistor between isS and isG, there is a .1uF cap parallel to C34, and the two wires are twisted! 
Not sure where to go from here


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I can hear the whine so either it's really loud or at a low enough frequency for my old ears to hear. My dog Muttley picked up on it too. I'm not familiar with the design, but it seems to be a simple buck converter. It sounds like an inductor is saturating and drawing a lot of current, which could happen with high line voltage, low frequency, or an inductor with too low inductance (or shorted turn). A scope trace would be helpful. Also, the photos show some long, thick cables that might need to be physically secured from vibration. And they appear to be low voltage speaker cables, possibly not rated for the high voltage. Just some ideas...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I can hear the whine so either it's really loud or at a low enough frequency for my old ears to hear. My dog Muttley picked up on it too. I'm not familiar with the design, but it seems to be a simple buck converter. It sounds like an inductor is saturating and drawing a lot of current, which could happen with high line voltage, low frequency, or an inductor with too low inductance (or shorted turn). A scope trace would be helpful. Also, the photos show some long, thick cables that might need to be physically secured from vibration. And they appear to be low voltage speaker cables, possibly not rated for the high voltage. Just some ideas...


The design is a dual-stage - PFC followed by a buck. The sound is coming from the PFC stage. The reason is hardware current limiting kicking in below the intended threshold. The current limiting is managed by the IR1153 PFC chip. Normally caused by the noisy current sense line. Easy fixes include a few things I mentioned above. If those don't work, a bit more involving fix may involve some dremeling on the driver board.

The inductor cores are powdered iron so they saturate very softly. They are operated in a swing mode so at max current they are saturated to ~50% by design. 

One additional trouble-shooting idea - can you try swapping the two inductors - using the current buck stage inductor in a PFC stage and vice versa? This will show if there is a problem with the inductor (e.g., a shorted turn like Paul said)?

Thanks,
Valery


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

powerhouse said:


> Thought I would update everyone with pictures of the charger. These are from ~ 6 weeks ago, so it doesn't reflect the current state of the charger. It currently has fans and is fully enclosed (except for the top).
> I am using a remotely located LCD & control buttons, placed in a laser cut acrylic enclosure.
> Sadly, I still dont have the charger working. i have been suffering from a 'squeal' that occurs when the charger is running. Recently I upgraded from 120v to 330v for the traction pack, and the charger screams when it runs. Heres a video of whats going on, if anyone has advice on what it could be please let me know!
> 
> ...


Looks familiar! Nicely done.


----------



## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

PStechPaul said:


> I can hear the whine so either it's really loud or at a low enough frequency for my old ears to hear. My dog Muttley picked up on it too. I'm not familiar with the design, but it seems to be a simple buck converter. It sounds like an inductor is saturating and drawing a lot of current, which could happen with high line voltage, low frequency, or an inductor with too low inductance (or shorted turn). A scope trace would be helpful. Also, the photos show some long, thick cables that might need to be physically secured from vibration. And they appear to be low voltage speaker cables, possibly not rated for the high voltage. Just some ideas...


Thanks for the suggestions! I can provide a scope trace, where would I place the scopes leads? 
Once I finish the charger, I will make sure to secure those wires! As for the speaker cable, its what everyone has been using (8 awg) and seem to be successful with. Thanks for the suggestions!



valerun said:


> The design is a dual-stage - PFC followed by a buck. The sound is coming from the PFC stage. The reason is hardware current limiting kicking in below the intended threshold. The current limiting is managed by the IR1153 PFC chip. Normally caused by the noisy current sense line. Easy fixes include a few things I mentioned above. If those don't work, a bit more involving fix may involve some dremeling on the driver board.
> 
> The inductor cores are powdered iron so they saturate very softly. They are operated in a swing mode so at max current they are saturated to ~50% by design.
> 
> ...


Dremeling my driver board?!? 
I went ahead and gave switching the inductors a shot, nada. I did receive a different tone, but I think thats because the inductors were secured down to the heat sink. This leads me to believe that the inductors are the ones making the noise (as Paul suggested).

Hopefully we can figure this out soon


----------



## swoozle (Nov 13, 2011)

powerhouse said:


> As for the speaker cable, its what everyone has been using (8 awg) and seem to be successful with. Thanks for the suggestions!


Not to sound like a nervous nelly (I've got some of this stuff in mine as well) but insulator temp resistance is a also concern of mine with this wire.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> This leads me to believe that the inductors are the ones making the noise (as Paul suggested).
> 
> Hopefully we can figure this out soon


Yes, the noise definitely comes out of the inductors but the inductors are likely not the cause of the noise.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

swoozle said:


> Not to sound like a nervous nelly (I've got some of this stuff in mine as well) but insulator temp resistance is a also concern of mine with this wire.


I didnt think about that...! I will switch out the wire for some higher quality stuff before I seal it all up 




valerun said:


> Yes, the noise definitely comes out of the inductors but the inductors are likely not the cause of the noise.


Ah good point. Im interested to see what the problem is being caused by


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I received the EMW charger kit a couple days ago. It was packaged very nicely, but I seem to be missing some capacitors for the control board, the only part I've worked on so far. I also have version V10 of this board which is a bit different from the boards shown in documentation on the EMW website.

A photo of one of the two inductors is below. They are made of varnished transformer wire wound on toroidal cores. Does anyone have this design? If so, how and where did you mount them? The photo of the charger on the EMW website with toroidal inductors (which look much nicer) shows them mounted behind the heat sink where they are in the airflow. The build instructions describe mounting them on the heatsink. Much better heat sinking the way rwaudio clamped his rectangular ones down onto the heat sink. I'm not sure how to hold these things in a way that won't scrub the varnish off over time, and I don't see any way to get conductive heat transfer, only forced convection if in the airflow. There are two about 3.5" diameter metal disks with a bunch of rubber gaskets in the kit. Wondering if these are supposed to be used to clamp the toroids? The gaskets don't seem as if they would have good thermal conductivity. Anyone with experience in mounting these?








Edit: Photo from EMW website:


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That's a rather ugly looking toroid, and looks like an amateurish hand-wound effort. When adjacent coils overlap as shown here, they can rub the insulation loose and cause shorted turns. It is better to wind several layers separated by mylar strips. It is common practice to use metal disks and rubber washers to mount toroids with a single bolt through the center, but there are also "omega brackets" which fit around the periphery and allow the coils to be mounted vertically.

http://toroid.com/mounting_hardware/washer.htm
http://toroid.com/mounting_hardware/omega_bracket.htm

There is some good information on toroidal inductors and transformers here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_inductors_and_transformers

One thing that is sometimes not considered is that a winding that overlaps itself and continues several times around the toroid also makes a spiral winding in the plane of the torus and can cause unwanted stray magnetic fields and other effects. The proper method is to wind almost to the beginning and then back so that this effect cancels and most of the magnetic field stays within the core. Here is sme discussion of this:
http://www.electronicspoint.com/transformer-windings-t112626.html

Here is a video showing a high speed toroidal winding machine that makes a really nice looking toroid, although they continue winding in the same direction without reversing. It probably does not matter very much with only two or three layers of fine wire as is the case here:





 
Here is a video of a much larger toroid using heavier magnet wire. It appears to be a branch of MD based www.toroid.com, in Brazil.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> That's a rather ugly looking toroid, and looks like an amateurish hand-wound effort. When adjacent coils overlap as shown here, they can rub the insulation loose and cause shorted turns. It is better to wind several layers separated by mylar strips. It is common practice to use metal disks and rubber washers to mount toroids with a single bolt through the center, but there are also "omega brackets" which fit around the periphery and allow the coils to be mounted vertically...


 Yes, I was quite disappointed when I opened them, as I was expecting something more professional like the ones shown in the photo of the opened charger on the EMW website. Thanks for the links. The first one, regarding mounting with disks and rubber washers says: "This mounting method is quite adequate for transformers up to 15 lbs (7 kg), *provided the transformer is not installed in a product subject to rough handling*."
It will get jostled around quite a lot in a vehicle. With the multiple stranded multiple turns crossed over each other with nothing but varnish in between I am concerned the varnish will scrub off over time with the clamp force squeezing them together.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

FWIW I have a similar inductor design, although it appears to be wound differently and looks more professional.

I used some heavy duty P clips with a rubber isolater such as the ones in the link below.

Works perfectly and isolated from everything else.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/planet-silicone/_i.html?_nkw=p+clip&submit=Search&_sid=1025427757

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Mike


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Wow! that really is a nasty looking toroid. I've not seen a commercially sold one that looks like that before...


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Looking at it again, mine (version 9.1) Doesn't look much better!


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

Those should be (and could be very easily) dipped in varnish, just like motors. For example, oven-curable class F or preferably class H polyester resin. It would cost almost nothing and would be a relatively quick step in the process. IMO, this is a must. Large, high-voltage inductors are good only for quick testing when not varnished.

Get some from a motor (re)winding supplier or a rewind shop. Dip the finished product & cure & voila.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

skooler said:


> Looking at it again, mine (version 9.1) Doesn't look much better...


 That one doesn't appear to have turns crossing each other as mine do. That is my concern. Clamping them will result in high pressure at some points where turns cross each other due to the small contact area. I think these may scrub as the vehicle jolts over potholes and cracks in roads, resulting in the windings eventually shorting at these points. The inductors will have to be clamped fairly tightly to hold them in place during such jolts, resulting in high pressure points. 

On the bright side, I like the way things were kitted. The controller and driver boards and their components were kitted in a separate box with foam lined trays holding components. The power board and components were in a separate package. Made it very easy to set up and start assembling the control board and driver boards. Everything was well-packed.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The second image looks like a bifilar wound toroid, with two or three strands twisted and then wrapped for higher current. This is also good for high frequency where skin effect can be significant. For the highest quality and efficiency, Litz wire may be used.

The P-clips may work but if they wrap around the core and through the hole, you must make sure that they are fully insulated or they will form shorted turns which negate the inductance and may cause heating of the steel material.

For the test set I designed, I used four 1.4 kVA toroids separated by neoprene foam rings and held on the ends by garolite phenolic pieces and four pieces of allthread wrapped in rubber hose:










Here are photos of a toroid that I disassembled to remove some turns, and then reassembled:


----------



## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

PStechPaul said:


> The second image looks like a bifilar wound toroid, with two or three strands twisted and then wrapped for higher current. This is also good for high frequency where skin effect can be significant. For the highest quality and efficiency, Litz wire may be used.
> 
> The P-clips may work but if they wrap around the core and through the hole, you must make sure that they are fully insulated or they will form shorted turns which negate the inductance and may cause heating of the steel material.
> 
> ...



Paul,

You really know your electronics! Wow! 
Are you an EE by trade? 

Also, is that a charger? Or what...

Thanks for all the insight on this thread


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The unit pictured is an auxiliary section of a portable high current circuit breaker test now known as the PI-1600. The two sections bolt together to provide an output of 5V at 1600A continuous and pulses up to more than 16kA.

Here are pictures of the complete unit:


















Here is my first prototype of a toroidal high current test set, using four standard 1.4 kVA primary cores (0.7 v/turn) from www.toroid.com. I made this originally around 1995, and at first I used three cores and aluminum bus bars, but this one with all copper was able to output 2.8V at 2000 amps continuous and about 16,000 amps for short pulses:


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> FWIW I have a similar inductor design, although it appears to be wound differently and looks more professional.
> 
> I used some heavy duty P clips with a rubber isolater such as the ones in the link below.
> 
> ...


Hi Guys - the new toroid inductors can be mounted in 2 ways:
1. Using included steel disk washers and neoprene washers. Using 2 neoprene washers per side should work fine. The downside here is that the inner part of the inductor will run hot.
2. To get absolute max current capacity from the inductors, you can mount using C-brackets cut out of HDPE or similar material. If cut to size, you can use just one of these per inductor, on the bottom.

I would be careful about using the P clips you mentioned because they will create a shorted turn on the inductor. As a result, the clip may overheat and the efficiency of charger will drop.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

I built mine out of fiberglass, it was pretty easy. I used a roll of duct tape cut in half as a form. See attached pics.

Valery,
I also have the V9 inductors and have overlapping turns, based on the above conversation I am a bit concerned. Should I use extra class H insulation like has been sugested? What about the stray magnetic field that has been mentioned?

Thanks,
Brock


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> The second image looks like a bifilar wound toroid, with two or three strands twisted and then wrapped for higher current. This is also good for high frequency where skin effect can be significant. For the highest quality and efficiency, Litz wire may be used.
> 
> The P-clips may work but if they wrap around the core and through the hole, you must make sure that they are fully insulated or they will form shorted turns which negate the inductance and may cause heating of the steel material.
> 
> ...


This is pretty cool. But don't these toroids have the same overlap of turns without tape between them (I have selected one of your images above that makes it clear)? In a number of 'production' inductors we have tried before going to our custom toroids, we saw the same approach.

Again, plastic C brackets or isolated P clips are best ways to mount these. Steel / neoprene washers is a second-best method.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

winzeracer said:


> I built mine out of fiberglass, it was pretty easy. I used a roll of duct tape cut in half as a form. See attached pics.
> 
> Valery,
> I also have the V9 inductors and have overlapping turns, based on the above conversation I am a bit concerned. Should I use extra class H insulation like has been sugested? What about the stray magnetic field that has been mentioned?
> ...


Hi Brock - 

don't worry about the stray mag field - it's there but very small. Way smaller than in the E-type core inductors that we have used in the previous versions of the charger. Those E-type cores worked fine, as well. The only reason we moved to toroids is better cooling - one-layer toroid cools several times better than E-type with 5+ layers. 

On the overlapping turns - hasn't been a problem in our units (we are using at least 5 charging systems ourselves in our cars). The wire used has H200C insulation which is rated for 5KV breakdown voltage and 200-degree centigrade operation. 

That said, one thing that we will start doing is applying varnish to finished inductors. You can also do that post-production using something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/Insulating-...841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc9c8d4c1

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

winzeracer said:


> I built mine out of fiberglass, it was pretty easy. I used a roll of duct tape cut in half as a form. See attached pics.
> 
> Valery,
> I also have the V9 inductors and have overlapping turns, based on the above conversation I am a bit concerned. Should I use extra class H insulation like has been sugested? What about the stray magnetic field that has been mentioned?
> ...


Brock,

What kind of amperage are you expecting to run through the larger inductor you made there?

Pete


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Yes, I was quite disappointed when I opened them, as I was expecting something more professional like the ones shown in the photo of the opened charger on the EMW website. Thanks for the links. The first one, regarding mounting with disks and rubber washers says: "This mounting method is quite adequate for transformers up to 15 lbs (7 kg), *provided the transformer is not installed in a product subject to rough handling*."
> It will get jostled around quite a lot in a vehicle. With the multiple stranded multiple turns crossed over each other with nothing but varnish in between I am concerned the varnish will scrub off over time with the clamp force squeezing them together.


Couple of additional points on this one: all the twisted wires are connected in parallel. This builds a sort of a Litz wire from 6 AWG16 strands to carry high-frequency better. AWG 16 is about optimal for 20-25kHz which is exactly right for this design. The twisted wires do not have any voltage difference between them. Even if the insulation wears off between the wires in the twisted bundle, nothing will happen at all. Wearing between turns would be a bigger problem. The wire we use has a heavy-duty double-insulation which is pretty tough. This could be further reinforced by varnish as described in the previous post. Alternatively, one can unwind a second layer and add H-class tape on top of the first layer and re-apply the second layer.

Re how these look relative to the picture on our site - the first photo on our site page for this product is actually not a photo bit a solidworks CAD model rendering. Just a very realistic one 

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> Brock,
> 
> What kind of amperage are you expecting to run through the larger inductor you made there?
> 
> Pete


Should be good for 100A with adequate cooling.


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> Should be good for 100A with adequate cooling.


That is great news. Now from what I saw and read is this just wire wound around a fiberglass core or was that just to make the holder? What kind of core would be best for the inductor. I need one that can handle about 300 amps or better. Can smaller inductors be placed in series to increase the total amperage that its able to handle? 

Application is for the DC fast charging from a bank of Solar Batteries to charge our 120 volt pack. The Solar bank is 48 volts. 

Would a toroid coil be best. I have a bunch like what is shown here. Except mine also include other outputs as my toroid is used as a transformer and outputs different voltages. Thought I could use the different sets of wires tied together as a single wire to be used as an inductor or to take it apart and rewind it with heavier wire for a beefy inductor. Yes we will need to have plenty of air around it while charging.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I just want to point out that the toroids I picture are transformers, and use a tape wound silicon steel core, which is not suitable for inductors because they have no air gap. It would be possible to cut an air gap in such a core, but unless the laminations were glued together or otherwise stabilized, it would lose much of its physical integrity. I also noted that the toroid I opened up had some crossing of adjacent turns, and it is almost impossible to avoid it while achieving maximum winding fill.

For an inductor such as is used in this charger, the core is more likely ferrite or powdered iron, which has a distributed air gap due to the granularity of the magnetic material. Also, depending on how the inductor is used, there may or may not be significant voltage between turns that touch or overlap. As long as there is not much compression on the crossed wires, and shock and vibration are minimized, there will probably be no problem. The multiple strands of smaller gauge wire will help increase efficiency at higher frequencies, and enable somewhat easier winding.

I found a pretty good reference for power design involving transformers and inductors, and it includes a good wire size chart with a section on Litz wire:
http://www.lodestonepacific.com/distrib/pdfs/Magnetics/Design_Application_Notes.pdf

I have received samples of cores and bobbins from Lodestone Pacific and I can recommend them as a good source of these materials.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I have a bunch of large inductors similar in shape but large and made with thick flat copper. Can these be set in parallel and still work as a single large inductor. Can't get pics of mine until tomorrow. Hoping to use what I have.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Valery,

Thank you for the response about the inductors I may put Kapton tape between overlapped turns.

Pete,

Valery built the larger inductor, as he said it is for 100amp output. They have the same iron core as shown in mine and Skoolers pics, my inductor mount is made of fiberglass.
Yes you should be able to run many parallel inductors to get push 300 amps current, the tricky part would be getting the right equivalent inductance. Link for reference.

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/parallel-inductors.html

Thanks,
Brock


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Here are a couple pics of what I have. Also what about just using a large coil of copper tubing with connectors on the end?


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

Time to go rest my foot. Surgery does hurt. Feeling much better. Bouncing back fast.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

onegreenev said:


> Here are a couple pics of what I have. Also what about just using a large coil of copper tubing with connectors on the end?


Have you calculated how much current your copper tubing can handle? Looks like they could work, just need to make sure all the physics and math work out.

Brock


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

I did not do the tubing but I do have the nice open coils. Dug out of some medical equipment from years ago. Figured I could use some of the stuff. For the coiled tubing I saw that on the same site that builds the coils I have. They call it non saturable inductance. Not sure what that means. Learning all the time. 


Figured if coper tubing could be used I could build something that would work. Not sure how exact we need to be for the use of these. They do need to handle a pretty high current. Taking a low voltage high current and bump it up to high voltage lower amperage. The inductors would need to handle differing amperages. Not just one. 

Pete 

Time to rest. Will resume tomorrow. Can't do much right now except sit on the couch with the foot up.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

onegreenev said:


> I did not do the tubing but I do have the nice open coils. Dug out of some medical equipment from years ago. Figured I could use some of the stuff. For the coiled tubing I saw that on the same site that builds the coils I have. They call it non saturable inductance. Not sure what that means. Learning all the time.
> 
> 
> Figured if coper tubing could be used I could build something that would work. Not sure how exact we need to be for the use of these. They do need to handle a pretty high current. Taking a low voltage high current and bump it up to high voltage lower amperage. The inductors would need to handle differing amperages. Not just one.
> ...


Hi Pete - 

the chargers use powdered iron cores from Micrometals. These guys are great. 

Generally, you can get higher current rating by just paralleling inductors. The inductance will go down but you generally will need lower inductance for higher current anyway.

Tube inductors are an interesting idea. It helps with battling the skin effect and also allows you to get creative with inductor cooling. If you use oil cooling setup, you can run the oil through the charger's cold plate first, then directly through non-isolated tubes (connected by plastic isolating tubing!), then to the radiator. Just don't forget that the core is heating up quite a bit, as well, and you need some ways to cool that, too.

Note that you CAN have high-current without any cores BUT the stray field can be too high. One of the functions of the core is concentrating of the magnetic flux. In a typical iron powder core, the concentration factor is 50-125, in a typical gapless ferrite core - 2000-5000. As a result, there is practically no flux leakage, especially from a toroid inductor. Air core inductors will radiate much much more. At your power levels, this will likely be quite intense...


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## Genius Pooh (Dec 23, 2011)

I have silly question

I read as If use very fast switcher Transformer and capacitor could be very small why in this project don't use very fast switch?

Fast IGBT is not that much expansive


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Pete - Tube inductors are an interesting idea. It helps with battling the skin effect and also allows you to get creative with inductor cooling. If you use oil cooling setup, you can run the oil through the charger's cold plate first, then directly through non-isolated tubes (connected by plastic isolating tubing!), then to the radiator. Just don't forget that the core is heating up quite a bit, as well, and you need some ways to cool that, too...


 That is a common method to make inductors used in RF impedance matching networks where not much inductance is required to obtain significant inductive reactance. At least the ones carrying large currents, the others don't require cooling. We don't use oil for the coolant though. We use deionized water since it is plumbed to the tools. Usually just several turns of 1/4" - 3/8" diam Ag coated copper tubing, air core, for frequencies in the 10 to 30 MHz range, less for higher frequencies. At 10 MHz skin depth is a bit over 20 microns.

I like the idea of dipping the coils. Should make them handle clamping better.

Do you have a photo of a coil with your C clamp Valery? I'm thinking of doing something like that, using two dielectric upright posts, about 1/2" x 1" cross section snug against each side of the coil and bolted to the chassis, and a 1" piece of PVC pipe through the center hole of the coil bolted down to the top of the uprights. Plan to wrap the PVC with some neoprene before bolting down, and use shims between the pipe and posts to adjust so it gives a small amount of force on the coil.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Genius Pooh said:


> I have silly question
> 
> I read as If use very fast switcher Transformer and capacitor could be very small why in this project don't use very fast switch?
> 
> Fast IGBT is not that much expansive


20kHz is about the highest frequency the high-power IGBTs are recommended to use. Our IGBT upgrade could allow up to 30kHz

The limiting factor is switching losses. Higher switching frequency means higher switching losses. In this charger (unless you used the upgraded IGBTs) switching losses are higher than conduction losses so you might be reducing the max possible power output of the charger by increasing the frequency.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## kittplayer (Feb 10, 2011)

Valery its tim in Los Angles, so I have your charger on but it is not charging my batteries. Weve done everything as stated, as well when connected to batteries the unit comes on and stays on even when the AC power is not present. Am I missing a diode? Anyway im getting nothing going to the batteries from charger.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The air core inductors are probably useless for a buck or boost converter with switching frequency under 1 MHz and power levels of 10kW. Here is information on how to calculate the inductance of simple helical and toroidal inductors:
http://www.lcbsystems.com/InduCalc.html

So if you have 4 turns of 5" diameter and 6" long, the inductance works out to be:
4^2 * 5^2 / (18*5 + 40*6) = 1.21 uH.

If you run 100 amps through the coil, the energy stored is 
0.5*1.21*100^2 = 6060 microjoules = 0.006 watt-seconds

Roughly, to get 10 kW, you need to transfer this energy by means of switching 10000/0.006 = 1.67 MHz.

At 16 kHz switching frequency you need more like 120 uH, which really requires a core of ferrite, powdered iron, or laminated silicon steel or iron.

Check my calculations. I may be wrong. But my feeling based on experience is that a 10kW switching supply of any topology will need to have components about twenty times larger than those in a 500W computer supply, and perhaps much larger if switching at 16 KHz instead of 200kHz to 2 MHz as many switchers use.

I found a better formula:
http://www.newcircuits.com/article.php?id=tut001

It is 0.2 * n^2 * d^2 / (3*d + 9*l + 10*t) where n=turns, d=diameter, l=length, and t=wire thickness, and I got 1.16 uH with 0.1" thick wire.

The calculator program in the first link seems to differ from what I got using his formula, which showed 1.89 uH.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

> Do you have a photo of a coil with your C clamp Valery?


 Nevermind, I found your description in your build notes:

"1. HDPE brackets holding toroid to the box (use ¾-1” thick HDPE such as this one: http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/HDPE_Sheet/HDPENAT0-750SR24X48). You want to make 2 C-brackets."

Seems clear you cut C's out of the material, insert them through the center holes in the coils, and bolt them to the enclosure to hold the coils in place. I assume you place neoprene between the coils and enclosure?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You might try PVC conduit clamps. They come in sizes from 1/2" to maybe 6" or more, and are inexpensive. You can get them at Home Depot or an industrial supply house like Grainger.

http://www.kraloyfittings.com/Content/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=40









http://www.lowes.com/pd_115982-223-...Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&facetInfo=1&state=R


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

tomofreno said:


> Nevermind, I found your description in your build notes:
> 
> "1. HDPE brackets holding toroid to the box (use ¾-1” thick HDPE such as this one: http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/HDPE_Sheet/HDPENAT0-750SR24X48). You want to make 2 C-brackets."
> 
> Seems clear you cut C's out of the material, insert them through the center holes in the coils, and bolt them to the enclosure to hold the coils in place. I assume you place neoprene between the coils and enclosure?


I would try to avoid HDPE, it melts at 275 F.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

powerhouse said:


> I would try to avoid HDPE, it melts at 275 F.


 Evidently it hasn't reached that temperature in the EMW cars. What do you suggest? Nylon has a melting point of 216 C, and should be fairly easy to find a scrap at a plastics house.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

tomofreno said:


> Evidently it hasn't reached that temperature in the EMW cars. What do you suggest? Nylon has a melting point of 216 C, and should be fairly easy to find a scrap at a plastics house.


Whatever material you want, PVC, ABS, Nylon, Ceramic Etc. All have higher melting points

If I were mounting the toroids, I would purchase a sheet of 1/8" rubber, a rubber stopper the diameter of hole in the toroid, and a giant fender washer.
Drill and tap a hole in the heatsink for something like a 10-32 bolt
Cut the rubber sheet to the diameter of the toroids, cut a hole in the center for the 10-32 bolt. Make two.
Drill a hole for the bolt down the rubber stopper
Place the rubber sheet down on the heatsink, place the toroid, place the rubber stopper in the middle of the toroid, place another bit of the rubber sheet on top of the toroid, then top off with the fender washer. Place the bolt through the entire thing, and tighten!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The problem with filling the center of the toroid is that the windings are more densely packed there and the heat is more concentrated. If you do not allow air flow or provide a thermally conductive path, the temperature can rise and possibly exceed the rating of the enamel coating of the wire.

You can get high temperature cable ties and keep the center open, and even provide forced air cooling. Here are some high temperature ties:

http://www.cabletieguys.com/specialty-cable-ties.htm
http://www.nelcoproducts.com/shoppi...+Ties+(18+lb.+-+120+lb.+Tensile)#.UWTV153D_IU
http://www.eis-inc.com/files/pdf/supplier_showcase_page_downloads/tnb/hi_temp_ty.pdf
http://www.industrialsupplymagazine.com/pages/Products---ThomasandBetts_051311.php
http://www.mcmaster.com/#zip-ties/=m95koa


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> The problem with filling the center of the toroid is that the windings are more densely packed there and the heat is more concentrated...


 Yeah, Valery pointed that out:


> Hi Guys - the new toroid inductors can be mounted in 2 ways:
> 1. Using included steel disk washers and neoprene washers. Using 2 neoprene washers per side should work fine. The downside here is that the inner part of the inductor will run hot.
> 2. To get absolute max current capacity from the inductors, you can mount using C-brackets cut out of HDPE or similar material. If cut to size, you can use just one of these per inductor, on the bottom.


 I think the C brackets will work well, and with the coils dipped I think "snug" clamping won't be an issue. I'm thinking of PVC pipe like I said, but with the irregular surface of the coil it may well not matter whether the clamping part is rounded or flat on the bottom. Will see when I get them back from being dipped and baked.

Powerhouse, the toroids don't mount on the heat sink, they mount to the bottom of the enclosure, standing up behind the heat sink in the airflow - like the CAD 3D shows. No room for them on the heat sink.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> I would try to avoid HDPE, it melts at 275 F.


the inductors should not be getting above 100C (212F) when adequately cooled. If they are getting hotter than that, you need to either improve the cooling or decrease the current. TO GET THE MAX RATED POWER OUT OF YOUR BUILD, YOU MUST EXPOSE THE WINDINGS TO DIRECT AIRFLOW. See the CAD drawing below for suggested layout

On C brackets: you can avoid rubbing and make the mount stiffer by unwinding a few turns and inserting a C bracked to brace the core only. Then wind the removed turns back, putting one turn over the bracket to hold it in place while handling before final mounting.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

What if you made the inductor by wrapping the wire around the outside of an iron pipe 8 inches long or two in parallel with steel cross bars at the ends?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The iron pipe would have rather poor magnetic properties. It may work OK as a hash filter, but would be very inefficient (and horribly noisy) at high audio switching frequencies. Powdered iron, ferrite, or thin laminations of silicon steel are required for efficient boost or buck converters. For an interesting analysis of a design project where the wrong type of inductors proved problematic, read the following:

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-042507-092653/unrestricted/MQP_D_1_2.pdf


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> ...On C brackets: you can avoid rubbing and make the mount stiffer by unwinding a few turns and inserting a C bracked to brace the core only. Then wind the removed turns back, putting one turn over the bracket to hold it in place while handling before final mounting.


 They could be wound as in the wikipedia article PS referenced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_inductors_and_transformers) to eliminate the azimuthal component of current and making the gap about 3/4" to accomodate a 3/4" wide C clamp. Could make the C clamp of 1/2" X 3/4" xsect dielectric, one horizontal, two uprights, and add a bottom horizontal bar of sufficient thickness for the core to rest on so that the windings don't touch the case. Fasten with bolts down through the two ends of the top horizontal bar, the uprights and bottom bar and the case. With the uprights fitted snugly against the core, this would clamp the core very tightly with no force on the windings. The bottom bar would also reinforce the case. No need to dip the coils in this case I would think.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

I'm in the final stages of my build. Just need to connect the boards together and connect the LCD and buttons.

I have the 10 pin ulcd14 with a separate board which houses the LCD and buttons.

I cant find any documentation on how this connects to the control board. any clues.

Finally, I also have the FTDI board in the link below. Where does this connect?

Cheers,

Mike

LCD
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11377

FTDI board
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873


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## agazdziak (Sep 24, 2012)

Quick question about using the BMS dongle on the charger. I'll be using a lithiumate lite - can I just connect pins 1 and 2 (Charge OK) to the BMS and EOC wires (yellow and purple)?


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

agazdziak said:


> Quick question about using the BMS dongle on the charger. I'll be using a lithiumate lite - can I just connect pins 1 and 2 (Charge OK) to the BMS and EOC wires (yellow and purple)?


You may need to use a relay.
The code for the charger is a bit flawed for use with BMS and should get revised soon, the changes are simple and minimal.

The way the charger works is by detecting if the EOC and BMS wires are shorted, which the charger would interpret as there being a BMS connected and the BMS telling the charger its is OK to charge. Later, when the BMS decides the charge is complete, it needs to open the relay so that the EOC and BMS are disconnected. This will tell the charger that to shut off.

There are two issues with this:

1. If the charger is powered up and the relay that shorts BMS and EOC has not closed yet, it will assume there is no BMS and begin to charge based on the parameters you programmed the charger with.
This is dangerous especially if your pack is out of balance. I had this occur during my first charge, and after I noticed a battery had touched 3.6 and the charger had not stopped I realized that something was wrong. 
Had I left and not turned off the charger at that moment that cell (and others) would have died or caught fire.

2. The code is flawed in its BMS shut down control. *Everyone needs to fix this if they are running a BMS with the charger.* 
What happens is that when the charge is nearly complete, the BMS will open the relay between EOC and BMS wires. This will tell the charger (assuming it sensed a BMS at the beginning) to stop charging. It will do this, and will acknowledge that it did by displaying a message "charge complete! XXX Ah in to battery pack". 
Unfortunately, if you dont disconnect power to the charger after the message is displayed by unplugging it / flipping a circuit breaker switch, you will fry your battery pack.
I noticed this after I charged my pack and noticed that the voltage kept rising while it was saying the charge was complete. I used my BMS's utility software to view the cell's voltages, and noticed that they all seemed to be floating at their charge voltage rather than sinking and settling back to their nominal voltage. Turned out that the charger was still supplying power to the pack even when it said that the charge was complete.

Valery advised me that in order to fix this, you need to put a 
duty=0; Timer1.setPwmDuty(pin_PWM, 0);
line before each 'return' statement in runChargeStep() function.

The BMS issue could be fixed by editing all BMSON=0 to BMSON=1 throughout the code, however I had no luck with this method yet.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> You may need to use a relay.
> The code for the charger is a bit flawed for use with BMS and should get revised soon, the changes are simple and minimal.
> 
> The way the charger works is by detecting if the EOC and BMS wires are shorted, which the charger would interpret as there being a BMS connected and the BMS telling the charger its is OK to charge. Later, when the BMS decides the charge is complete, it needs to open the relay so that the EOC and BMS are disconnected. This will tell the charger that to shut off.
> ...



Thanks for the write-up. The fix to phantom charge issue (trickle charge being supplied after BMS turn-off) has been posted on our page http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7 (just download the latest code). 

You are right about the BMS detection logic - it is not fail-safe right now if the relay is open when the charger starts. We actually had the code set up earlier such that you *had* to short the EOC and BMS wires in order for the charger to start. Then we added a workaround for those cases when no BMS is present. You're making a very good case for rolling that change back.

I will post an updated code tomorrow & will post a note here.

Thanks!
This is what open source is all about - better product through community design!

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

agazdziak said:


> Quick question about using the BMS dongle on the charger. I'll be using a lithiumate lite - can I just connect pins 1 and 2 (Charge OK) to the BMS and EOC wires (yellow and purple)?


can you post a logic table for pins 1 and 2 of lithiumate lite? 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I'm in the final stages of my build. Just need to connect the boards together and connect the LCD and buttons.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - in your version, the LCD board connects to the set of pins right on top of the Arduino on the control board. There are 6 wires you will be connecting (left side - control board, right side - LCD board; pin numbers given from the left of the Control board pin set - orient the board so that the pin set is on top of Arduino board and you are looking at the board from the component side):
Tx (pin 2) -> Rx
Rx (pin 3) -> Tx
Vcc (pin 4)-> Vcc
GND (pin 5) -> GND
pin 7 -> red button (you can also trace this on the control PCB)
pin 8 -> green button 

FTDI is needed only for programming. You do not have to keep it connected to the charger at all times. We normally just bring out the wires from the first 6 pins of the above connector (on control board) and then when needed, connect the FTDI to those wires.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> They could be wound as in the wikipedia article PS referenced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_inductors_and_transformers) to eliminate the azimuthal component of current and making the gap about 3/4" to accomodate a 3/4" wide C clamp. Could make the C clamp of 1/2" X 3/4" xsect dielectric, one horizontal, two uprights, and add a bottom horizontal bar of sufficient thickness for the core to rest on so that the windings don't touch the case. Fasten with bolts down through the two ends of the top horizontal bar, the uprights and bottom bar and the case. With the uprights fitted snugly against the core, this would clamp the core very tightly with no force on the windings. The bottom bar would also reinforce the case. No need to dip the coils in this case I would think.


this is a good mounting technique, yes. Another variation is to just take a piece of 2.75"x2"x0.75" dielectric and cut out the C shape from that. Predrill 2 holes for the screws on the ends of the 'C'. Put a piece of rubber between the assembly and the case to isolate. Screw down the whole thing to the case.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Thanks for the write-up. The fix to phantom charge issue (trickle charge being supplied after BMS turn-off) has been posted on our page http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7 (just download the latest code).
> 
> You are right about the BMS detection logic - it is not fail-safe right now if the relay is open when the charger starts. We actually had the code set up earlier such that you *had* to short the EOC and BMS wires in order for the charger to start. Then we added a workaround for those cases when no BMS is present. You're making a very good case for rolling that change back.
> 
> ...


Firmware has been re-uploaded to the site at http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7

The phantom charge issue has been confirmed fixed in both production and dev versions of the code. 

The 'BMS relay open at charger start' edge case has been addressed in the dev version. Note that it will now require BMS and EOC pins to be connected via a low-resistance (<1kOhm) loop in order to start the charger. If you don't plan to use BMS, just connect those pins together with a wire / jumper - they are next to each other on the control board.

All complete chargers will be shipped with this version of the code.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

valerun said:


> Firmware has been re-uploaded to the site at http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7
> 
> The phantom charge issue has been confirmed fixed in both production and dev versions of the code.
> 
> ...


Excellently done Valery, that was fast!
I am very happy that you have continued providing support and improving the charger even after months.
Check your email BTW, I sent you an email tomorrow!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

just a couple of pics on the possible inductor mounting approach. C-bracket made out of HDPE and 2mm insulation sheet.

hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

This post is on using the EMW charger for 100A output on lower voltage battery packs (120V* 100A = 12kW, the rated output). 

*Input diode bridge:* 

Valery:


> Input diode bridge can handle up to 18kW input power. The limiting factor there is actually not the pins but the PCB board. That's why we started doubling the PCB for bridges.


 The attached photo shows the dual boards (diode pins are soldered to both boards). There is no need to tie (“reinforce”) negative bridge pins and 2 AC input pins on each diode together using the dual boards, but wire connections should be made to both boards.








Regarding connection from the input diode bridge to the power board:



> #10 is fine for that connection. I assume you will have good airflow in the box so they will get some cooling. They are also short which helps.


 *Inductors: *

Valery:


> Re inductor - you are right in your calcs. We use 16 AWG H-insulation (200C) magnet wire. Such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/AWG-16-Copp...390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bf5f7356. I suggest you buy direct from ebay - will be easier.
> 
> Note that you do NOT need to change anything in the PFC inductor - it is designed to handle 12kW rated power. As long as you don't exceed that, you only need to modify the output (buck) inductor.


 The calc referred to is: (90 – 70)/70 = 29% (but for 100A would be 43%). The number of strands in the Litz wire then need to be increased by 43%, so about 9 strands instead of the standard 6 to maintain similar current density, and the number of turns on the core needs to be decreased by 43% to keep the same flux density in the core. 

I counted 48 turns when I removed the original winding. The wire measured 19 ft 4 inch, pulled out fairly straight, but actual length is a bit longer, which agrees well with 48 turns for the about 1 5/16” by 7/8” cross section core since there is some overlap of turns. The original winding then used about 6*20 ft = 120 ft of 16 gauge wire. 

There are 125.5 ft/lb of 16 gauge, so 120 ft is a bit less than 1 lb. The 100A coil requires 43% greater number of strands and 43% less turns, so about the same total length and weight of wire (same power density). The same weight of 14 gauge would be required for the same power. Gauge 14 is 79 ft/lb, so 1 lb would be more than enough for 43% less turns, about 27, of 6 strands each.

The AC leads, leads between the inductors and power board, and those between the terminal strip and power board and output diode of course need to be increased to larger gauge to handle the higher current. The leads are bolted to the power board as shown in photos on the EMW website.

I had my inductors dipped, but it turned out to be easy to unwind one, and after a 10 - 15 minute soak in lacquer thinner, the softened varnish easily scraped off the core (was only single dipped).

Edit: I ended up modifying the buck inductor to 34 turns, each with 14 strands of 18 AWG.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> This post is on using the EMW charger for 100A output on lower voltage battery packs (120V* 100A = 12kW, the rated output).
> 
> *Input diode bridge:*
> 
> ...


Thanks Tom for posting this - I am sure this will be useful for a few people here. 

ON AWG14 vs 16 for the inductors. I wouldn't use anything thicker than AWG 16. Even 16 is not exactly optimal due to skin effect. Optimal is AWG 19 (see http://daycounter.com/Calculators/SkinEffect/Skin-Effect-Calculator.phtml for some calcs / formulas). We use AWG 16 as a middle ground between what's optimal for the PFC stage (22kHz) and the buck stage (12-16kHz).

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Skin depth in a good conductor at 22 kHz is 17.4 mil, and at 14 kHz is 21.8 mil, using the standard equation d = (pi*f*u*s)^-1, where u is permeability, s is conductivity, f freq, and pi = 3.14. 

Current falls of as e^-z/d, so about 63% flows within one skin depth of the surface and 95% within 3 skin depths of the surface, which would be 52 mils and 65 mils at 22 and 14 kHz. 

The _effective_ area for current flow (to give same resistance as DC, the _effective_ resistance) is taken as one skin depth in width because assuming that the E and H fields extend one skin depth into the material _unattenuated_ (their values at the surface) gives about the same area under the curve on a graph of E and H versus skin depth as 3 skin depths for the actual attenuated fields. Edit: In other words we can say that the AC resistance is the same as the DC resistance if the unattenuated fields extend one skin depth into the material resulting in a uniform current flow throughout that depth equal to it's value at the surface. So_ if _the fields were unattenuated, a one skin depth thickness would give about the same resistance and power loss as a DC current flowing throughout the entire cross sectional area of a solid conductor of the same radius, but the fields are attenuated, so Ag coatings for conductors used at RF frequencies are usually at least 3 skin depths in thickness. Gauge 16 wire is 51 mils diam so seems small to me.

Edit: What rule of thumb do audio people use for wire size?
Edit: I see my source of confusion. According to Terman (Electronic and Radio Engineering) the size of the strands in Litz wire is chosen so that there is little skin effect within each strand (so ~ constant current throughout the cross section). Then you would want the strands less than 2 skin depths in diameter. You also want the "stranding properly done" so that each strand links with the same number of flux lines as the others, resulting about the same inductance for each, so they each carry the same proportion of the total current. With you now!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Skin depth in a good conductor at 22 kHz is 17.4 mil, and at 14 kHz is 21.8 mil
> ....
> The size of the strands in Litz wire is chosen so that there is little skin effect within each strand (so ~ constant current throughout the cross section). Then you would want the strands less than 2 skin depths in diameter.
> 
> You also want the "stranding properly done" so that each strand links with the same number of flux lines as the others, resulting about the same inductance for each, so they each carry the same proportion of the total current. With you now!


That's right. This is why you have to twist all the strands of wire reasonably tightly so every conductor goes through all positions relative to the center of the bundle many times.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Anyone guess what this is?

hint: some new open-source product from EMW - to be released soon ;-)

V


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Level 3 EVSE?


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Some sort of 10KW night light?


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

People always talk about skin effect and there are nice formulas and tables for that, while in reality skin effect is insignificant in most transformers and inductors because there is a much more severe problem caused by so called "proximity effect". The difference is, it's much harder to determine because the actual winding structure affects it a lot. It gets quite complex pretty quickly and the best way might be actual testing.

So, don't assume that the "skin effect" calculations tell anything about the truth in transformer/inductor design. It's actually much worse. Skin effect predominates in power transmission (single wires, or wires far away from each other).


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Anyone have the part number for the 12V regulator referred to in step 8h of the build notes?


> h. In the left short side of the box, drill 3/16” hole on the side of AC adapter for mounting main 12V linear regulator. Good location is 2” from your side, 3.5” from the top. Total dissipation will be 1-2W so no need for extensive heatsinking but some is required hence mounting the regulator to the box.


I don't see one listed in the _off-board mounted_ section of the BOM, and there is not one in the components I have left in the kit.


----------



## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

valerun said:


> Anyone guess what this is?
> 
> hint: some new open-source product from EMW - to be released soon ;-)
> 
> V


Giant dog bag or dixie cup dispenser?


----------



## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

valerun said:


> Anyone guess what this is?
> 
> hint: some new open-source product from EMW - to be released soon ;-)
> 
> V


20kW ChaDeMo charging station.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

tomofreno said:


> Anyone have the part number for the 12V regulator referred to in step 8h of the build notes?
> I don't see one listed in the _off-board mounted_ section of the BOM, and there is not one in the components I have left in the kit.


I had the same issue - completely missing!

just buy a 12v regulator rated for a couple of amps.


----------



## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

tomofreno said:


> Anyone have the part number for the 12V regulator referred to in step 8h of the build notes?
> I don't see one listed in the _off-board mounted_ section of the BOM, and there is not one in the components I have left in the kit.


The 12V regulator on my early kit I think was a LM2940CT-12. Just a 3 pin TO-220 package regulator. The LM2940CT-12 is a low dropout regulator so the input only needs to be a couple of tenths of a volt over the regulated output and it needs minimal capacitance to be stable.

I may be wrong but wasn't this replaced with a separate switcher that runs off of the AC input and just provides the regulated 12 volts? If so you are looking for something you no longer need. Or is it the separate switcher that is missing?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> I had the same issue - completely missing!
> 
> just buy a 12v regulator rated for a couple of amps.


no need for a regulator in recent kits - they are all supplied with precise 12V regulated supply so 12V post-reg is not needed. This should be mentioned somewhere in the build instructions.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> People always talk about skin effect and there are nice formulas and tables for that, while in reality skin effect is insignificant in most transformers and inductors because there is a much more severe problem caused by so called "proximity effect". The difference is, it's much harder to determine because the actual winding structure affects it a lot. It gets quite complex pretty quickly and the best way might be actual testing.
> 
> So, don't assume that the "skin effect" calculations tell anything about the truth in transformer/inductor design. It's actually much worse. Skin effect predominates in power transmission (single wires, or wires far away from each other).


Hi Siwastaja - you are correct in general but in this case skin effect matters much more than it usually does as the winding is single-layer. Most of the proximity effect issues come from multi-layer windings.


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## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

agazdziak said:


> Quick question about using the BMS dongle on the charger. I'll be using a lithiumate lite - can I just connect pins 1 and 2 (Charge OK) to the BMS and EOC wires (yellow and purple)?


I am using the Lithiumate Lite as well. I'm a bit aggravated that the charge current limit on that BMS is 30A. Does anyone know a work-around for this?

Can you split the output from the charger with one line going to the BMS and the other going through a resistor of equivalent resistance as the sensor?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> no need for a regulator in recent kits - they are all supplied with precise 12V regulated supply so 12V post-reg is not needed. This should be mentioned somewhere in the build instructions.


 No it is not. Step 9ii instructs to


> Cut 2 10" wires (ideally red a black) and 2 6" wires (same colors). Solder these to the DC output of the AC adapter (red to positive output, black to negative/ground). One set of these wires will go to the fans. Another set will go to the 12V regulator.


Step 9ii instructs to mount the 12V regulator. The build notes need to be updated in several areas. 

Edit: It would be best if several changes were bundled together and introduced at one time, and the rev rolled on both the kit and documentation. Typically just the last few digits of the number - the dash number - are changed. Then customers know if they have -001 kit they need to download -001 Build Notes and BOM for example. It requires more time and effort, but it is much easier than fielding dozens of questions because the documentation is incomplete or out of date. If you aren't selling many kits then it may be less demanding to just answer questions, but the more kits sold the more time and effort this will save. In higher volume production change control procedures and complete and accurate documentation are critical for success.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> no need for a regulator in recent kits - they are all supplied with precise 12V regulated supply so 12V post-reg is not needed. This should be mentioned somewhere in the build instructions.


Valery,

Mine was supplied with no power supply or regulator! Hence the use of a regulator and a laptop power supply as listed in the instructions and BOM (version 9.1)


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

My kit has a power supply included. It looks like a typical laptop power supply. How do you tell the difference between the precision 12V source supplied with newer kits and the adapter supplied with the older ones? It says: I-MAG AC Adapter, Model: IM120EU-400D.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> My kit has a power supply included. It looks like a typical laptop power supply. How do you tell the difference between the precision 12V source supplied with newer kits and the adapter supplied with the older ones? It says: I-MAG AC Adapter, Model: IM120EU-400D.


That looks like the new 12v version. My kits had the older voltage selectable model. Just confirm it says 12v output and you should be good to go.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Valery,
> 
> Mine was supplied with no power supply or regulator! Hence the use of a regulator and a laptop power supply as listed in the instructions and BOM (version 9.1)


hold on, no power supply at all?? Please PM and if really the case, we will send asap.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> hold on, no power supply at all?? Please PM and if really the case, we will send asap.


Valery, don't worry about it, the faff and hassle with customs just isn't worth it. I'll happily exchange for some advice!

I have found an old laptop power supply rated for 15v. I am using that with a 12v regulator sourced locally (same one as in your BOM).

While we're on the topic. Do I need this power supply at all? Can I not just steal 12v from the car?

Also, How exactly does the J1772 work using the AC adaptor for 12v? Surely there is no 12v to activate J1772 to give the car AC, and no AC for the adapter until there is 12v? (you see where I'm going with this!)

Finally, If I were to source the 12v from the car, how do I control the fans and water cooling? Is there an output on the charger to switch a 12v relay (turning on pump and fans) when it requires cooling? I notice there is a fan header on the control board.

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

skooler said:


> ...While we're on the topic. Do I need this power supply at all? Can I not just steal 12v from the car?


 I recall that somewhere in the Build Notes V9.2 it states the option of using the vehicle's 12V.



> Also, How exactly does the J1772 work using the AC adaptor for 12v? Surely there is no 12v to activate J1772 to give the car AC, and no AC for the adapter until there is 12v? (you see where I'm going with this!)


 A resistive divider is all that is required to turn on the AC in the EVSE. Then the 12V will turn on and the charger can further communicate with the EVSE.



> Finally, If I were to source the 12v from the car, how do I control the fans and water cooling? Is there an output on the charger to switch a 12v relay (turning on pump and fans) when it requires cooling? I notice there is a fan header on the control board.


 Step 9bii states:
_Cut 2 10” wires (ideally red and black) and 2 6” wires (same colors).Solder __these to the DC output of the AC adapter (red to positive output, black to_ _negative / ground). One set of these wires will go to the fans. Another set_ _will go to the 12V regulator._

Steps 11biv, v state:
_Connect a separate power cord to the AC adapter, plug in to 110VAC (DO __NOT CONNECT AC TO THE CHARGER – ONLY TO THE AC ADAPTER)._
_Fans should turn on._


These indicate that the fans come on as soon as AC is supplied the adapter, or 12V is applied to them from the vehicle. You could use a 12V
relay with an AC "coil" side to connect your vehicle's 12V to the fans and pump when the charger is plugged in.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> No it is not. Step 9ii instructs to Step 9ii instructs to mount the 12V regulator. The build notes need to be updated in several areas.
> 
> Edit: It would be best if several changes were bundled together and introduced at one time, and the rev rolled on both the kit and documentation. Typically just the last few digits of the number - the dash number - are changed. Then customers know if they have -001 kit they need to download -001 Build Notes and BOM for example. It requires more time and effort, but it is much easier than fielding dozens of questions because the documentation is incomplete or out of date. If you aren't selling many kits then it may be less demanding to just answer questions, but the more kits sold the more time and effort this will save. In higher volume production change control procedures and complete and accurate documentation are critical for success.


Tom - you are of course absolutely right. Unfortunately, we have a bit of catch-22 with a lot of kits out there already with slight differences, so a single doc will still be challenging. We have tried to address this by building some optionality into the latest set of build instructions. For example, 9b in the currently online set of build instructions (PFC example, non-PFC may have slightly different numbering) starts with '[ONLY IF SUPPLIED WITH A 15V AC ADAPTER]' and then proceeds to talk about the 12v reg mounting. 

We will do a full review of the documents next week after the Maker Faire this weekend (we are exhibiting so things are a bit hectic this week). The new set of instructions will use a new fully machined enclosure as a template. I think that those of you who have ordered a kit with that option will be very very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the enclosure and the final build!

Thank you all very much for your feedback on our products - we really appreciate it and try to address the issues asap.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Rastusmalinus said:


> I am using the Lithiumate Lite as well. I'm a bit aggravated that the charge current limit on that BMS is 30A. Does anyone know a work-around for this?
> 
> Can you split the output from the charger with one line going to the BMS and the other going through a resistor of equivalent resistance as the sensor?


You can but that will interfere with SOC measurement by Lithiumate as it will think that much less energy went into the pack than really did... Not sure what that will mean in terms of operation of the BMS - maybe some Lithiumate experts can answer.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Valery, don't worry about it, the faff and hassle with customs just isn't worth it. I'll happily exchange for some advice!
> 
> I have found an old laptop power supply rated for 15v. I am using that with a 12v regulator sourced locally (same one as in your BOM).
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - 

good question on the circular dependency of J1772 power availability and control board. The way we get out of that is by hardwiring power demand circuit into the charger - this is a combination of a signal diode and a 1k resistor on the bottom of the control board. That way, the charger *passively* demands AC power the second J1772 cord is plugged in. That energizes internal circuitry and from then on, the control board takes it over with duty cycle measurement, etc.

You can use car's 12v, of course. Just make sure that you are wiring the fans to be controlled by the control board (as opposed to hardwiring to 12v supply as per instructions). That's where the fan header comes in handy - it is driven by a single N2222 so can drive ~300-500mA without heatsinking hence you will need a relay to switch fans. We are starting to ship new versions of the control boards soon that will have high-power FET with freewheeling diode on a couple of Arduino outputs. Those will be able to control up to 10A without heatsinking (using 30V 2 milliohm Rds FETs and 30A peak schottky diodes).

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> You could use a 12V
> relay with an AC "coil" side to connect your vehicle's 12V to the fans and pump when the charger is plugged in.


clever. ;-)


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Tom - you are of course absolutely right. Unfortunately, we have a bit of catch-22 with a lot of kits out there already with slight differences, so a single doc will still be challenging. We have tried to address this by building some optionality into the latest set of build instructions. For example, 9b in the currently online set of build instructions (PFC example, non-PFC may have slightly different numbering) starts with '[ONLY IF SUPPLIED WITH A 15V AC ADAPTER]' and then proceeds to talk about the 12v reg mounting.
> 
> We will do a full review of the documents next week after the Maker Faire this weekend (we are exhibiting so things are a bit hectic this week). The new set of instructions will use a new fully machined enclosure as a template. I think that those of you who have ordered a kit with that option will be very very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the enclosure and the final build!
> 
> ...


 Well yeah, but those kits will be built before long, and the existing documentation can be archived for people with those kits to access if need be in the future (say someone buys an older charger second hand and needs documentation to troubleshoot it). Then you can start rev control with bundled features going forward from there. The new features mentioned above and any others that will be ready soon would be released in a new kit with new revision number and updated documentation specific to that kit with references to older kits removed, and with a rev number matching the kit. More work, but less confusing to users, and less confusion means less questions for you to field. 

Machined housing eh? Wish I had waited a bit longer...

You might also consider a water cooled version that is totally enclosed, no fans, with separate small heat exchanger mounted elsewhere on the vehicle and lines to the chill plate you have in the charger. Could then be dust and water proof. If the vehicle has a water cooled controller, it and the charger could use the same heat exchanger since they are not on at the same time.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Valery, I have just visited the www.emotorwerks.com website and I could not find any links to documentation such as schematics and assembly instructions. Also there is a broken link in your sig to a non-existent page on that site. And IIRC, the schematics were in .SCH format which required a special application to view, which is free, but I have another schematic program that also uses the .SCH extension, so it creates problems. I converted some of them to PDF which is more convenient, but I could not locate them except on my own computer.

I realize you are and will be very busy, but hopefully soon you may be able to provide quick links to the documentation. It should at least be with the charger PCB kit in the website store:

http://www.emotorwerks.com/products...set-for-a-10kw-60a-emw-open-source-ev-charger

or:

http://emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics

Thanks for your efforts, and good luck at the show.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Valery, I have just visited the www.emotorwerks.com website and I could not find any links to documentation such as schematics and assembly instructions. Also there is a broken link in your sig to a non-existent page on that site. And IIRC, the schematics were in .SCH format which required a special application to view, which is free, but I have another schematic program that also uses the .SCH extension, so it creates problems. I converted some of them to PDF which is more convenient, but I could not locate them except on my own computer.
> 
> I realize you are and will be very busy, but hopefully soon you may be able to provide quick links to the documentation. It should at least be with the charger PCB kit in the website store:
> 
> ...


Hi Paul - please in the meantime use this for detailed info: http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7

am changing the sig now... Thanks!
V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

All - need your feedback on something. 

We are thinking of sourcing and adding to our web store J1772 hardware (plug / inlets / cables)

A 32A J1772 inlet with a 1m pigtail would retail from our store for $89, matching plug with a 25-foot cable - for $149.

What do you think - makes sense to do it? Would you buy?

Thanks,
Valery


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

valerun said:


> All - need your feedback on something.
> 
> We are thinking of sourcing and adding to our web store J1772 hardware (plug / inlets / cables)
> 
> ...


Are these the same Chinese knockoff plugs that we see elsewhere? 
or are they UL listed??


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## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

valerun said:


> All - need your feedback on something.
> 
> We are thinking of sourcing and adding to our web store J1772 hardware (plug / inlets / cables)
> 
> ...


It's the inlet limited to 32A ? Or is just because of the cable ? My charger can take 42A from a 240V outlet.

Your charger is a 10KW, so you should have an inlet rated for that.

This is just my opinion  , keep up with the good work.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

azdeltawye said:


> Are these the same Chinese knockoff plugs that we see elsewhere?
> or are they UL listed??


We can source UL listed, as well. Generally a $10s more - due to price difference on cables.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

TEV said:


> It's the inlet limited to 32A ? Or is just because of the cable ? My charger can take 42A from a 240V outlet.
> 
> Your charger is a 10KW, so you should have an inlet rated for that.
> 
> This is just my opinion  , keep up with the good work.


Yes, definitely a good point ;-) We are talking to the supplier regarding fitting AWG 8 cable for 50A rating. Right now the only breaks are 16/32/70A...

Valery


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## azdeltawye (Dec 30, 2008)

valerun said:


> We can source UL listed, as well. Generally a $10s more - due to price difference on cables.


Great! UL J1772 connectors are the only way to go. 

I've had issues with my Chinese non-UL inlet and binding with the o-ring type seal in a non-Chinese plug. It takes a considerable amount of force to plug in a Chargepoint or Blink EVSE plug due to the poor tolerances of the sealing surface of the Chinese inlet. 

I've actually had to remove the seals on the EVSEs that I regularly use...


----------



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

valerun said:


> Yes, definitely a good point ;-) We are talking to the supplier regarding fitting AWG 8 cable for 50A rating. Right now the only breaks are 16/32/70A...
> 
> Valery



What AWG is the 70A one ? If is AWG 6 it's perfect.

Bigger is always better


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

TEV said:


> What AWG is the 70A one ? If is AWG 6 it's perfect.
> 
> Bigger is always better


yes, it's 6 on the 70A ones. Expensive cables, damn it ;-)


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> yes, it's 6 on the 70A ones. Expensive cables, damn it ;-)


 That is what I'm using for the output on my EMW charger output, 8 AWG for the input. I wanted to use 4 for the output but the lugs are too large for contact to the PC board, and I couldn't find power cable in that AWG, only stranded single conductor. I plan to run up to 85 - 90A through it (modified the buck inductor to 34 turns, 14 strands of 18 AWG). Will have to see how hot things get. Short runs though. Need to find time to complete the charger now.

Valery, what were you using on the charger you ran at 100A output into a 70V pack?

Edit: I found some lugs for #4 AWG with holes for #10 bolts, so used 4 gauge welding cable for the outputs.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> That is what I'm using for the output on my EMW charger output, 8 AWG for the input. I wanted to use 4 for the output but the lugs are too large for contact to the PC board, and I couldn't find power cable in that AWG, only stranded single conductor. I plan to run up to 85 - 90A through it (modified the buck inductor to 34 turns, 14 strands of 18 AWG). Will have to see how hot things get. Short runs though. Need to find time to complete the charger now.
> 
> Valery, what were you using on the charger you ran at 100A output into a 70V pack?


AWG 4 for that one. We also used dual AWG 8 wires - works fine and no problems interfacing the PCB


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Ok Guys! Long overdue build videos are HERE! The first set we did details assembly of the PFC unit, air cooled. This is by far the most popular configuration so we started with that. Also, the assembly procedure for all other configurations is at least 80% the same. Enjoy!

There are 9 videos in total. They are all organized into this playlist. You can also access them individually from the list below:

Part 1 - Kit Contents
Part 2 - Heatsink prep
Part 3 - Power board 
Part 4 - Bridge Board 
Part 5 - Driver Board 
Part 6 - Control Board 
Part 7 - Final Assembly
Part 8 - Power up
Part 9 - Experiments with the newly built unit 

Let me know what you think. Any comments welcome!

Thanks!
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> Good job, the videos are a welcome addition. It would really be good to make a video of the testing procedure as well.
> 
> Zak


Hi Zak - the testing procedure post-build is in the Power Up clip. Also, there are some elements of testing in a control board clip.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

Good job getting the videos out.
I saw those later, I don't think they were all on youtube when I watched them early this morning. I think you need to reshoot the testing procedure video so we can see what you are doing on screen instead of just a shot of the charger internals and not being able to see what you are connecting to where, seeing what the screen on the charger is showing, the resistors you are using during the test, etc.

The dual charger setup is really impressive!

Thanks,
Zak


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Zak - the testing procedure post-build is in the Power Up clip. Also, there are some elements of testing in a control board clip.
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery


 The test procedure seems to be mainly in the Part 7 Final Assembly video. Thanks Valery.


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks, 
I believe what was happening with youtube was the video was stalled and the audio kept going so I didn't see the looped Anderson connector or the inrush reistors in my stalled video till I tried again later. Usually I can use use Realplayer to download videos so the stalled video is avoided but it seem that's not possible with these clips. 
Zak


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I didn't have a problem with the one video I tried, but sometimes you can change the video quality so that it runs smoothly and syncs with the sound. I use ATubeCatcher to download videos from YouTube.


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> I didn't have a problem with the one video I tried, but sometimes you can change the video quality so that it runs smoothly and syncs with the sound. I use ATubeCatcher to download videos from YouTube.


Thanks, I've been suffering through some computer difficulties and after reinstalling a few programs I got it to run correctly.


----------



## agazdziak (Sep 24, 2012)

Quick question RE zero-point calibration: I was following the quick start reference guide and when I shorted the outputs there was a bright and loud spark. Is this to be expected? The charger didn't trip a breaker and seems to power up OK, but I'm weary to repeat the calibration since it seemed unusual.

This is on a PFC unit that was purchased assembled.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

agazdziak said:


> Quick question RE zero-point calibration: I was following the quick start reference guide and when I shorted the outputs there was a bright and loud spark. Is this to be expected? The charger didn't trip a breaker and seems to power up OK, but I'm weary to repeat the calibration since it seemed unusual.
> 
> This is on a PFC unit that was purchased assembled.


Hi - this is not normal if this is the first power-up of the unit. If the unit was powered up shortly before this (or the battery was connected prior to this), then you could get the spark from residual charge.

Please measure the voltage on the output before shorting. If it is higher than 10-20V, dissipate the charge with a large resistor - best to use a couple of regular lamps in series.

Another possibility is that something is wrong with the unit. First test would be dissipating the charge and then measuring voltage on the output right after the charger is plugged in. If the voltage immediately goes up to hundreds of volts, there may be a problem with power stage.

Please let us know.

PS. also, all the chargers that are shipped assembled are calibrated already so you don't really have to do it unless you want absolute precision on your specific battery.

Valery.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I finished building the charger, but can't get the firmware to compile and upload. Compiling error says it can't create Timer1/TimerOne.cpp.o: no such file or directory exist. I downloaded the Timer1 and uLCD_144 files, unzipped them and put them in the arduino library folder, so don't understand what the problem is. There is a TimerOne.cpp file in the Timer1 folder.


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> I finished building the charger, but can't get the firmware to compile and upload. Compiling error says it can't create Timer1/TimerOne.cpp.o: no such file or directory exist. I downloaded the Timer1 and uLCD_144 files, unzipped them and put them in the arduino library folder, so don't understand what the problem is. There is a TimerOne.cpp file in the Timer1 folder.


Hi,
Are you using the 0022 version of the Arduino platform? I don't think the other version will operate correctly.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Zak650 said:


> Hi,
> Are you using the 0022 version of the Arduino platform? I don't think the other version will operate correctly.


Yes, downloaded it from the link on the EMW site. Thanks.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Ok, got it compiled (just tried it again and it worked) and uploaded (after correcting some programming cable mis-wiring). On to testing.


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

hi guys, im nearing the end of assembly on my charger I just need some help figuring these last few parts

L. n2222 trasistor S7 not labeled on board

Posible locations circled in red


Can someone help me locate S7



Also steps: h. i.
h. Make a 5-pin (only 2 side pins used) thermistor connector. See section “Prepare the off-board components“ for general instructions for making harnesses. Cut 24” pre-crimped wires and solder one end to thermistor (heat-shrink-wrap thermistor connections and thermistor itself to prevent shorting to heatsink).
i. Using heat glue or super-glue, secure the thermistor in the thermistor hole.


so it tells you to make a hole for thermistor, make a harness and to shrink and glue it to heatsink, but it never says where to connect it, where does the 5pin with only 2 wire connector go to?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

jehu said:


> hi guys, im nearing the end of assembly on my charger I just need some help figuring these last few parts
> 
> L. n2222 trasistor S7 not labeled on board...Can someone help me locate S7


 It's on the RHS of the Arduino. Highlighted in the attached image.



> Also steps: h. i...so it tells you to make a hole for thermistor, make a harness and to shrink and glue it to heatsink, but it never says where to connect it, where does the 5pin with only 2 wire connector go to?


 On the two outer pins on the 5 pin connector next to the Arduino: Temp and GND. Circled in the attached image.
View attachment Cntrl Bd.pdf


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

tomofreno said:


> It's on the RHS of the Arduino. Highlighted in the attached image.



Problem is my circuit board is different than the picture. All along the build i had the feeling that the build instructions where for another version of the PCB but i have not found the right ones.



tomofreno said:


> On the two outer pins on the 5 pin connector next to the Arduino: Temp and GND. Circled in the attached image.
> View attachment 16377


My PCB has Temp on the correct pin but the other one is labeled +5 not GND, GND is on the center pin instead



Here is the interesting thing, Just last week they have uploaded video assembly guides for the SmartCharge-12000 and the section showing how to assemble the controller board, the guy in the vid says "this is how your board should look like" 

there is only three n2222 transistors, just like mu PCB.

I purchased the $999.00 Complete EMW SmartCharge-10000 non-PFC component kit, no enclosure kit, I think I got the high voltage stuff right I just need to finish the controller board, load software and test it out, can i follow the SmartCharge-12000 instructions?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Looks like you have a newer version board. I think mine is V10. Revision numbers are not well-controlled across boards, Build Notes, BOM, schematics, and pcb files (meaning they are not all updated together), so there is conflicting, missing, or outdated info sometimes. For example my board has R40 mounted off to the RHS of the Arduino, but the posted pcb file shows it under the Arduino. Sometimes you have to email Valery to get clarification. You also have to check multiple sources for info. Valery makes some remarks in the videos that are not in the Build Notes. For example, you have to specify the Arduino device you when upload firmware. That info is not in the Build Notes, but Valery mentions it in video 7 - or you could examine the chip you have, but at that point the control board is already mounted in the charger so a bit of a pain to examine. Use both the part 7, Final Assembly video (testing begins about 30 minutes in) and the Build Notes. I haven't completed testing so can't say much more than that. Also be careful of differences between pfc and non-pfc versions. For example, on the pfc version the driver board is mounted on the power board with the front side (where most of components are mounted) facing away from the power board, whereas it is mounted with the front side facing the power board on the non-pfc versions. This has been mentioned a few times in this thread.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Problem is my circuit board is different than the picture. All along the build i had the feeling that the build instructions where for another version of the PCB but i have not found the right ones.
> 
> My PCB has Temp on the correct pin but the other one is labeled +5 not GND, GND is on the center pin instead
> 
> ...


Hi Jehu - 

Your board is good as is, assuming you are ok powering your fans directly from the 12V AC supply (which 90%+ of our builders do). The large FET you circled on the newer board is for PWM control of those fans and is not required.

The MSWord instruction manuals are slightly dated in a couple of places now that we had to redesign a control board a bit to accommodate new version of the LCD (they changed the pinouts on us without notice ;-). Also, we now have a fully machined enclosure so no need to cut all the holes in the box etc. We are now working on updating those instructions. Hopefully next week we will be able to post the updated version.

Right now, the videos represent the latest and should take precedence over text instructions if there is conflict.

On thermistor connection - it should be connected between GND and Temp pin of the connector. We had to move GND pin when redesigning board - refer to the label on the board. 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks for your help Valery,


Alright I'm stuck uploading the code to the arduino.
I've successfully uploaded the Main Sketch? the main code

No errors

Now the instructions say:
"You will also need to download this LCD library and this PWM Timer library and install them into your Arduino/libraries folder."

Downloaded the libraries. And dropped them to the libraries folder:






They are now available from the drop down "import Library" menu so they are in the right place?





Anyways I dont know what to do now, If import them they appear on top of the code and i says to include them.


If I upload, then i get the following errors:


Can someone help me?


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

It seems to be particularly the timer one as all else uploads fine


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> It seems to be particularly the timer one as all else uploads fine


weird but you should be ok - if the code compiles, that means the libraries got linked successfully. Looks like Mac implementation of Arduino IDE loads the libraries automatically (?)

Valery


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> weird but you should be ok - if the code compiles, that means the libraries got linked successfully. Looks like Mac implementation of Arduino IDE loads the libraries automatically (?)
> 
> Valery


I've had issues with MAc and arduino in the past. if you are still having problems try it on windows.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

guys, quick question -anyone has ideas for a good PCB manufacturing house that can do 4-10 oz copper boards, ideally 0.125" thick FR4? We are hitting a point when further power increase in this design is limited by the PCBs and our current manufacturer (ExpressPCB) has very severe limitations on what they can (or are willing) to do.

Thx. 
Valery


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> guys, quick question -anyone has ideas for a good PCB manufacturing house that can do 4-10 oz copper boards, ideally 0.125" thick FR4? We are hitting a point when further power increase in this design is limited by the PCBs and our current manufacturer (ExpressPCB) has very severe limitations on what they can (or are willing) to do.
> 
> Thx.
> Valery


You can try these guys http://www.pad2pad.com They are pretty acomodating so they might be able to help.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can't beat www.pcbcart.com in China. I got an instant quote for 5 pieces of 6"x8" PCB 0.126" thick, 4 oz copper, for $24 each plus $142 one-time tooling charge, or $261 total, with 8 day delivery. 

I have also had good results from www.eiconnect.com. Talk to Melody and tell her I sent you. They'll probably be able to do the job and give you a good price (but not as low as from China). They also can do metal clad boards (usually for high power LEDs) but maybe they can use copper and basically machine it for the traces.

I also like www.pcbfabexpress.com. I don't know their special capabilities, but they have very good prices for prototype quantities with fast turnaround (5 days or so).

For any of these you will need Gerber files and Excellon drill files. I think ExpressPCB uses a proprietary format.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

So this build is determined to be challenging.
I got the software thing sorted out, powered the board up using the usb power, ran through the set up and then moved on to the Hi voltage stuff, 

Slowly connected everything, no sparks no smoke, shorted the output, no sparks, but then it didnt prompt me to connect the battery and confirm the voltage so i'm not sure whats up there.

I connected the battery anyways it sensed voltage because then it allowed me to run the charging sequence, except there is no power coming out to the battery.



So not really know how to trouble shoot this...
Is it software? Could it be this setup for a PFC charger and Im running a NON-PFC but i dont know what this code needs for Non PFC

#define PFC // is this a PFC unit?
// #define UV12 // enable gate supply undervoltage protection?
// #define NiXX // do we want support for Nickel chemistries?

Any help highly appreciated


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> guys, quick question -anyone has ideas for a good PCB manufacturing house that can do 4-10 oz copper boards, ideally 0.125" thick FR4? We are hitting a point when further power increase in this design is limited by the PCBs and our current manufacturer (ExpressPCB) has very severe limitations on what they can (or are willing) to do.
> 
> Thx.
> Valery


I like pcbcore.com
I've been using them for many years with great results.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> So this build is determined to be challenging.
> I got the software thing sorted out, powered the board up using the usb power, ran through the set up and then moved on to the Hi voltage stuff,
> 
> Slowly connected everything, no sparks no smoke, shorted the output, no sparks, but then it didnt prompt me to connect the battery and confirm the voltage so i'm not sure whats up there.
> ...


Congrats on getting this far. 2 things:
1. you do need to comment out the #define PFC clause
2. you also most likely need to uncomment #define A7520_V statement

Just to be sure, can you post a photo of your driver board?

Also, I'm concerned about the other 'challenges' you have implied in your post. I'd like to know what those are and make sure they are addressed.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> You can't beat www.pcbcart.com in China. I got an instant quote for 5 pieces of 6"x8" PCB 0.126" thick, 4 oz copper, for $24 each plus $142 one-time tooling charge, or $261 total, with 8 day delivery.
> 
> I have also had good results from www.eiconnect.com. Talk to Melody and tell her I sent you. They'll probably be able to do the job and give you a good price (but not as low as from China). They also can do metal clad boards (usually for high power LEDs) but maybe they can use copper and basically machine it for the traces.
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul - you really are a a walking encyclopedia! ;-)

Will start with EI guys tomorrow.

V


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Ok here is the code as I last uploaded:

//------------------------------ MAIN SWITCHES -----------------------------------
#define drop110power // reduce power to ~1.5kW when connected to 110VAC?
// #define hall150U // 150A output current unidirectional sensor?
#define hall100U // 100A output current unidirectional sensor? (default for kits / chargers shipped from 12/12)
// #define MCC100A // 100A output rating - use ONLY with a custom-wound inductor
//#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
//#define PFC // is this a PFC unit?
// #define UV12 // enable gate supply undervoltage protection?
// #define NiXX // do we want support for Nickel chemistries?
//------------------------------- END MAIN SWITCHES ------------------------------

Here is the driver board:


As far as the "Challenges" i was just speaking generally, I'm not used to struggling this much to complete a task, I usually can figure stuff out on my own so i feel dumb posting here this much.
Thanks for all the help Valery

*UPDATE:*

ok I changed line:
//#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
to
#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)

So now the program prompts me to connect the battery pack, but then it doesnt recognize voltage going in

Ok so i've gone thru the build instructions to see if I missed anything, especially in the censors and something caught my eye,

instructions 
R. Build a connection harness for HV connector
iv. Solder Vbop wire to the left lead of the 82k resistor. This will be used to sense input voltage
v. Solder Vout wire to the cathode of output diode (or, if using output relay, to the output pin of the relay). This will be used to sense output voltage

is Vout the center pin and not the 2nd pin from the top down?



*Update*
I removed the white connector and I indeed had it wrong, I had the cathode of output diode wire going to a pin that was not connected to anything.
I installed it in the right place, ran the initial set up and it did not make a difference. It still says it does not recognize battery
I also found that the BMS EOC dongle was not installed correctly so fixed that but it made no difference


So if i run the charging sequence without the battery connected to the charger it goes into this screen, it almost seems like its actually outputting 43V but if i measure the charger leads It reads 0v 


If I run the charging sequence with the battery connected to the charger then it goes into this screen

A few seconds later it goes into this one 

And a few seconds later it goes into this screen


So im kind of stuck, apart from going over every single step of the build process to see if i missed or installed something wrong I dont know what to do.

*UPDATE*
Im second guessing myself on the following building step:
iv. Solder Vbop wire to the left lead of the 82k resistor. This will be used to sense input voltage

is this the left side? "Left" is a relevant term so i find it hard to know.


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## racunniff (Jan 14, 2009)

I've been digging around, and have not found the answer, so I thought I'd ask here. Are there any issues with mounting an air-cooled version of the charger on its side, like this?









The specific concern, I guess, would be the tendency of components on top to be hotter than those below.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

racunniff said:


> I've been digging around, and have not found the answer, so I thought I'd ask here. Are there any issues with mounting an air-cooled version of the charger on its side, like this?
> 
> View attachment 16418
> 
> ...


racuniff - main issue would actually be structural stress on the inductor mounts. They are really designed to be oriented such that the C-bracket mount is on the bottom.

thermal considerations are less relevant as any natural convection effects are negligible compared to the forced air cooling from the fans.

I'd recommend mounting on the bottom.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Ok here is the code as I last uploaded:
> 
> //------------------------------ MAIN SWITCHES -----------------------------------
> #define drop110power // reduce power to ~1.5kW when connected to 110VAC?
> ...


yes this is the correct side of the 82k resistor. 

Have you set up the charger for your battery? If you specified different # of cells during setup vs the battery you are using now, you could get the 'battery not connected' screen. 

Also, you need to re-calibrate your unit as you changed a major switch in the code affecting voltage sense (#define A7520_V). Please go through the procedure again. This may be why you see 43V on the LCD while the actual output is zero. 

One more thing - you seem to have zero output voltage at 96.9% duty cycle. This means that there is a break in either the power wiring or in PWM signal path from Arduino to the IGBT. Let's take care of the first issue (calibration & voltage sensing) and then we will tackle this.

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> You can't beat www.pcbcart.com in China. I got an instant quote for 5 pieces of 6"x8" PCB 0.126" thick, 4 oz copper, for $24 each plus $142 one-time tooling charge, or $261 total, with 8 day delivery.
> 
> I have also had good results from www.eiconnect.com. Talk to Melody and tell her I sent you. They'll probably be able to do the job and give you a good price (but not as low as from China). They also can do metal clad boards (usually for high power LEDs) but maybe they can use copper and basically machine it for the traces.
> 
> ...


Ordered initial set from EIconnect. Seems to be a great outfit - if works out, will move all our volume to them. 

Re ExpressPCB proprietary format - check out http://www.robotroom.com/CopperConnection/. $49 license gets you a fully functional PCB layout soft with full Gerber outputs PLUS it can read ExpressPCB files!!! This has been one of the best finds of the year for me.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

posted update on 20kW design at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=356300&postcount=27


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> Ordered initial set from EIconnect. Seems to be a great outfit - if works out, will move all our volume to them.
> 
> Re ExpressPCB proprietary format - check out http://www.robotroom.com/CopperConnection/. $49 license gets you a fully functional PCB layout soft with full Gerber outputs PLUS it can read ExpressPCB files!!! This has been one of the best finds of the year for me.


I would prefer to use my own PCB design suite, which is Mentor Graphics PADS2004 (and I also have an installation for version 9.x). It includes full featured schematic capture, PCB layout, and high performance autorouter, with the ability to use OLE dynamic linking between the schematic and the layout. It also has full design rule checking for clearance, connectivity, and other parameters. 

For SMT assembly I use www.aapcb.com (which is NOT the same as Advanced Circuits).


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

*UPDATE*


valerun said:


> One more thing - you seem to have zero output voltage at 96.9% duty cycle. This means that there is a break in either the power wiring or in PWM signal path from Arduino to the IGBT.


Ok I found 2 problems,
*1st* I had the output Diode backwards thats why I had no power coming out, fixed that, now my voltmeter reads 160vdc, so now it seems the IGBT is just always on.
*2nd * I took a closer look to the IGBT connections, it turns out I had the female spade connectors on E1 and G1 going into the same leg on the driver board essentially shorting out E1 and G1 and both connected to the E1 connection on the driver board

Fixed 



valerun said:


> Let's take care of the first issue (calibration & voltage sensing) and then we will tackle this.





valerun said:


> You need to re-calibrate your unit as you changed a major switch in the code affecting voltage sense (#define A7520_V). Please go through the procedure again. This may be why you see 43V on the LCD while the actual output is zero.


Attempted to run calibration sequence, but I really can't short out the output with 160vdc present.
so i ignored and I let the charger time out and go into charge sequence, it gives me this screen


I ran calibration without mains power on, then connected mains, then tested the output, turns out the 160v on the output leads is a leak as it dissipates when i put a load on it (light or heater)

So the calibration worked as im no longer getting the "something is wired wrong" message and it now reads the battery pack voltage correctly at 77vdc but unfortunately still reaches 96.9% duty cycle and it outputs 0Amps.


Now here is a question, the build instructions say:
i. Cut 10” length of gauge 8/10 wire, solder one end to AC1 output. This will be the shared 110/220VAC input. 
ii. Cut 12” length of gauge 8/10 wire, solder one end to AC2 output. This will be the second input line for 220VAC. 
iii. Cut 10” length of gauge 12 wire, solder one end to AC0 output. This will be the second input line for 110VAC. 
I have 2 identical boards, one for each of the 2 Diode Bride rectifiers, they both have a hole marked AC0 and another AC1/2
So the wire from step iii. to AC0 goes in either board right? How about AC1 and AC2 does it matter which AC1/2 i designate ac1 or AC2? 
The reason I ask is because right now I have 110VAC mains going to the AC0 hole of one of the boards and the other leg to the AC1/2 hole on the same board and the charger senses IN: 272V. Is that right?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Ok I found 2 problems,
> *1st* I had the output Diode backwards thats why I had no power coming out, fixed that, now my voltmeter reads 160vdc, so now it seems the IGBT is just always on.
> ...


good progress. 

Yes, you have it wired right. The signal still does not seem to get to the IGBT gate terminal. Do you have a scope to check the IGBT gate signal? You need to trace the PWM output from Arduino through control board to driver board, through A3120 and to IGBT terminal and see where it stops. Do this with a resistive load (e.g. 2 120V lamps in series) in case the signal comes through while you're at 97% duty.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Alright, today I took the entire charger apart, I put it together before watching your video build so I had the airflow wrong, I had the inductor before the heatsink so took the opportunity to fix that.

I think I found the problem, while testing early today I heard a Pop! not too loud, no flash, no smoke , no smell. I looked and looked but i couldn't find where it had come from, until now

Traces of flash near R6 and C28

Looking at the build instructions it looks like
h. Place 0.1uF caps: C14, 27, 28, 30, 31
iii. Place 10R power resistor R6, bend upwards

0.1uF cap looks right, thats that only value blue cap the kit ships with right? marked 104K

The 10R power resistor doesn't look right, which one is 10R? this is all the parts I have left, 

Oh.....Im so dumb, its that big black one isnt it? ok replacing it now.... hope it works


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Alright, today I took the entire charger apart, I put it together before watching your video build so I had the airflow wrong, I had the inductor before the heatsink so took the opportunity to fix that.
> 
> I think I found the problem, while testing early today I heard a Pop! not too loud, no flash, no smoke , no smell. I looked and looked but i couldn't find where it had come from, until now
> 
> ...


the big black one, yes. Once you place it and before putting things back togeher, please power the driver board separately (with 12V) and measure voltage between the output pins (the 90-degree metal connectors near the A3120). You are looking for -15V. If you don't see -15V, there is a bigger problem.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

just posted a test of 20kW high-voltage unit to the separate thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/25-40kw-pfc-charger-high-voltage-82629p2.html


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> before putting things back togeher, please power the driver board separately (with 12V) and measure voltage between the output pins (the 90-degree metal connectors near the A3120). You are looking for -15V. If you don't see -15V, there is a bigger problem.


Ok here it is everything put back together, applied 12V to the driver board and measured the output on the 90 degree connectors and I get -14.8v


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Ok here it is everything put back together, applied 12V to the driver board and measured the output on the 90 degree connectors and I get -14.8v


super - this is good. let's try to power it up now. remember to go slow, start with 110V, check output voltage before shorting output, etc.

let us know.

V


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

jehu said:


> Ok here it is everything put back together, applied 12V to the driver board and measured the output on the 90 degree connectors and I get -14.8v


Just a minor nit FYI, it looks like the low battery indicator is showing on the meter, and I have found that it can result in wrong readings. If the battery voltage is low enough that the internal reference is low, the readings will be high. But this happened only after I ignored the indicator for awhile.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> super - this is good. let's try to power it up now. remember to go slow, start with 110V, check output voltage before shorting output, etc.
> let us know.
> V


No luck, ran calibration, and setup, once it goes into charging sequence it shows no amps 




valerun said:


> The signal still does not seem to get to the IGBT gate terminal. Do you have a scope to check the IGBT gate signal? You need to trace the PWM output from Arduino through control board to driver board, through A3120 and to IGBT terminal and see where it stops. Do this with a resistive load (e.g. 2 120V lamps in series) in case the signal comes through while you're at 97% duty.


Unfortunately I do not have a scope or the know how to use one even if I did. Is there a way I could buy assembled controller and driver boards from you Valery? if I replace these boards with tested working ones and there is still a problem then we can concentrate in the HV circuitry


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> No luck, ran calibration, and setup, once it goes into charging sequence it shows no amps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


we can do that but I would hate you spending $$$ (even if it's with us) to fix what's likely a minor problem... 

You don't need a scope to do basic follow-through. While your duty is at 97%: 
1. check voltage on input of A3120. 
2. same before the 220R resistor that feeds that input
3. same for PWM output on control board
4. same for the PWM output pin of the Arduino (look up the pin number in code and its location in PCB file).
5. check voltage between C1 and E2 terminals of IGBT

Let us know what you get.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

off topic - have any of you guys have seen good, current list of conversion shops around the country (and maybe world)? Could you pls PM me if you have?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> off topic - have any of you guys have seen good, current list of conversion shops around the country (and maybe world)? Could you pls PM me if you have?


No but perhaps it would be something good to have on the site (as would a list of suppliers). Perhaps in the wiki?


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery,

One way to approach builds that are running into difficulties might be for builders to send you their boards to get them checked out. The driver and control boards aren't that large and could be sent priority mail. When all else fails, would this be an option?

Zak


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Valery,
> 
> One way to approach builds that are running into difficulties might be for builders to send you their boards to get them checked out. The driver and control boards aren't that large and could be sent priority mail. When all else fails, would this be an option?
> 
> Zak


Yes, we have actually done it for a couple of builds. We normally commit only to a quick review and fixing obvious and fixable issues. Anything over that we quote for. In every one of those cases, we had to rebuild the boards, I think...


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Don't give up now Jehu, you are so close and some of us are watching your build closely, your posts are very usefull to the rest of us especialy with the excelent photos you have included to clarify your builds correctness with valery.

A picture tells a thousand words as they say and in this case that is so true, I am about a 1/4 way through a NON-PFC build so the issues you are experiencing may well be relevant along with all of valery's answers to your very specific questioning, keep it up I cant wait to see your SUCCESS! post.

Graham



jehu said:


> No luck, ran calibration, and setup, once it goes into charging sequence it shows no amps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

jehu said:


> Ok here it is everything put back together, applied 12V to the driver board and measured the output on the 90 degree connectors and I get -14.8v


Just noticed something in this pic. The cable coming from the right IGBT looks a bit thin for something that potentially carries 60 amps. You should be using 8 guage as a minimum.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Zak

I would have to disagree with the send it to valery to get it fixed, as this is an open source build it is absolutely essential for everyone who is building one of these great chargers to post all of their issues with good photos and detailed explinations.

That way we can build up a catalogue of solutions to common mistakes that people might make, this leads to improved build notes which I am sure Valery would appreciate, keep it open and public.

I will almost certainly be posting lots of photos and questions when I make mistakes in this complex and challenging build, and this is the best place to do it, I have also been following your post's closely Zak as you are doing a non pfc build just like mine (albeit 110V with a voltage doubler board) I am in the UK so we have 220V AC mains and I am sure the mistakes (and posts) I am bound to make will help the next UK non PFC builder.

How is your build going Zak have you powered it up yet, we would all love to hear more on your progress?



Zak650 said:


> Valery,
> 
> One way to approach builds that are running into difficulties might be for builders to send you their boards to get them checked out. The driver and control boards aren't that large and could be sent priority mail. When all else fails, would this be an option?
> 
> Zak


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Zak
> 
> I would have to disagree with the send it to valery to get it fixed, as this is an open source build it is absolutely essential for everyone who is building one of these great chargers to post all of their issues with good photos and detailed explinations.
> 
> ...


Watch out if your using non-pfc in the UK...

The electric companies can get a bit funny over here. ask me how I know!


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

jehu said:


> Ok here it is everything put back together, applied 12V to the driver board and measured the output on the 90 degree connectors and I get -14.8v


 
Be carefull with that PCB. It seems to me it may be touching the top of the caps, which may cause a potential short somewhere! Always use something in between


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

In regards to this charger, seems like the inductors need forced ventilation. For use with a closed enclosure under the bonnet, with water cooling, will it be enough to put some thermal compound between the inductors and the heatsink?


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Skooler

OK, How do you know and why, I am afraid I am a complete novice at EV building but I am learning fast, I had no idea what PFC meant other than looking it up on Wikipedia, (Power Factor Correction) after speaking to my EV expert (Jozzer) he said it was not neccesary for the minor correction I would recieve in the charging performance, there was no mention of it affecting the power companies profits (Like I care!).

I remember my old electronics tutor years ago telling me about a mod you could do to florescent tube lights to reduce the power consumption to nearly nothing (it was either removing a capacitor or resistor from the driver board can’t remember which) the power companies did not like this either!

is this something similar?

also whilst I am posting you do you have a blog for your RX8 conversion? 
My partner has just bought one with no engine for me to convert after I have finished the Honda Beat, talk about put the pressure on :-0

Graham



skooler said:


> Watch out if your using non-pfc in the UK...
> 
> The electric companies can get a bit funny over here. ask me how I know!


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Graham,

Non EV related - I use 28v, 200amp power supplies as part of my day job. We used to have some old non pfc versions until the power company wrote a nice letter and demanded we stop using them as our neighbours were having brownouts and equipment blowing up. Turns out that everyone under the same substation was having issues.

Basically, without PFC, the AC supplies Sine wave is damaged slightly as it is not quite a true sine wave drawn by the charger. The addition of PFC gets this closer to being a true sine wave which means less 'pollution' on the grid.

The power companies don't like the use of non PFC for two reasons.

1. The electric meter on the supply will not have an accurate reading (might not be in your favour!)
2. The pollution to the grid can cause problems for other stuff connected to it (ever had a flickering light while welding?)

As this is 12kw we are playing with I would say its definitely worthwhile unless you don't mind living in a disco!

For some people with a large supply to themselves in a remote area it may not be necessary.



sexstrap said:


> Hi Skooler
> 
> OK, How do you know and why, I am afraid I am a complete novice at EV building but I am learning fast, I had no idea what PFC meant other than looking it up on Wikipedia, (Power Factor Correction) after speaking to my EV expert (Jozzer) he said it was not neccesary for the minior correction I would recieve in the charging performance, there was no mention of it affecting the power companies profits (Like I care!).
> 
> ...


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

sexstrap said:


> I remember my old electronics tutor years ago telling me about a mod you could do to florescent tube lights to reduce the power consumption to nearly nothing (it was either removing a capacitor or resistor from the driver board can’t remember which) the power companies did not like this either!




This is off-topic, but these are most often urban legends told by people who don't have a clue about what they are talking about but still want to show off. This is one of those.

Yes there is a good mod, removing the input power wire reduces the consumption to zero!

--

Re PFC, if I was valery, I would stop selling the non-PFC version, for the reasons stated above. Today, as active PFC is relatively cheap and easy, almost all cheap Chinese power supplies are already implementing it. The higher the power level, the more important it gets.

From the kit point of view, having only one product instead of two would make the process, build notes etc. easier, so that could offset the price difference a bit.

One word: responsibility.

With non-PFC, you are just blowing your own fuses (or, limiting the power you could get from your socket) and poisoning the electricity. It's not about anyone's profits.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Skooler

Oh! That is news to me, thanks for the info, I think the PFC version was considerably more expensive and more to build.

I am guessing as you knew this beforehand and you bought the PFC version of Valery's charger (or did you build your own from scratch?) I also understand that the PFC boards are optional extras so I could add them afterwards as a mod, any ideas how true this is?

and maybe (quite possibly) I missed something but I did not see any warnings about using NON PFC versions on EMotorwerks website, correct me if I am wrong Valery, if not maybe there should be warning about the risks of using NON PFC.

I do live out in the sticks and I am at least a mile from my nearest neighbour however I don’t want to upset them or cause any power issues with other equipment I have in my house, which is on a different meter and a lot closer, but from your description this does not help filter out the noise. 

In the 8 years I have lived in this house (and I don’t intend to move again) I have had no end of issues with the power in the house, we have been arguing with the power companies (several different one's as they change all the time! so much for privatisation, thanks Maggie!) for all this time and have managed to improve things slightly with new overhead cables and some changes to the neutral side of the connection (Common Neutral I think) however we do get lighting strikes quite regularly at around this time of year each year, that come down to power pylons in our area, this usually knocks out our power supply for a few hours at least, 2-3 times a year! (great fun though)

Sorry some of this is slightly off topic.

and Skooler (sorry to ask again) do you have a blog/website/thread on this site of your RX8 build?

Graham



skooler said:


> Hi Graham,
> 
> Non EV related - I use 28v, 200amp power supplies as part of my day job. We used to have some old non pfc versions until the power company wrote a nice letter and demanded we stop using them as our neighbours were having brownouts and equipment blowing up. Turns out that everyone under the same substation was having issues.
> 
> ...


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Skooler
> 
> Oh! That is news to me, thanks for the info, I think the PFC version was considerably more expensive and more to build.
> 
> ...


Happy to help, Someone else will probably want to expand on my description. I don't claim to be an expert but that's how I understand it - please correct me if I am wrong!

My advice would be to get the extra parts either from Valery or source them yourself (might be cheaper due to shipping / customs) there is a Bill of Materials on the EMW website. As far as I understand it the same boards are used.

Build thread is in my signature ;-) It's long overdue an update but as things are about to change (lithium) I thought I'd wait.

EDIT: And yes I built the charger myself. I'm currently playing with the code and then I'm going to power it up in the next day or so for testing.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Happy to help, Someone else will probably want to expand on my description. I don't claim to be an expert but that's how I understand it - please correct me if I am wrong!
> 
> My advice would be to get the extra parts either from Valery or source them yourself (might be cheaper due to shipping / customs) there is a Bill of Materials on the EMW website. As far as I understand it the same boards are used.
> 
> ...


skooler - you're spot on re PFC benefits. Ideally, all the significant power drawinf equipment would have PF=1.0. But, as usual, real life is trade-offs. In the US, PF guidelines are rarely (never?) enforced in residential settings. Basically the only way to get any attention drawn to non-PFC loads is if they result in your neighbors' equipment malfunction, they complain, and power company investigates. Unless you live in the apartment (where your socket might be shared with a neighbor on the other side of the wall), you have to triy really hard to affect your neighbor's supply that much. 

For example, I personally had non-PFC versions of our charger drawing up to 15kW at my house without any disruptions to our household equipment, let alone neighbors'. You do get your breakers tripped earlier - which you can of course deal with by just oversizing your breaker a bit. The only real issue I see is with public charging stations that have 30A breakers inside that you can't oversize. Non-PFC charger will trip those breakers earlier (say, at 21A average current), thereby limiting the amount of power you can draw to 70% of the rated charging station power.

A lot of people don't perceive this as a significant downside (e.g., not planning to use charging stations that much anyway, etc.) so they decide to save $300 and go for non-PFC.

Non-PFC also easier to assemble (less parts, more free space in box, etc). Not 2x faster but maybe 20-30%. Non-PFC is also easier on thermal management as you have 2 power processing stages (bridge + buck) instead of 3 (bridge + boost + buck) and only 1 inductor instead of 2. Peak currents are higher so you don't get a full 2x decrease in dissipation but you do get ~30%. With same heatsink and fans, this translates into lower temp rise and more forgiveness in layout etc.

So we see about 50/50 split in non-PFC and PFC kit orders

Re upgrade from non-PFC to PFC version. It IS possible to do after you build a non-PFC version but you will need to build the separate PFC stage in a separate box. The cost will also be more than the cost of upgrade at the order time because we cannot just substitute boards / parts after you used them. The main difference is in power boards - bridge and main power boards are different. Quick stat: to date, we had only ~2-3% of our non-PFC kit customers buying a PFC add-on after they build the non-PFC charger.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

guys, you're going to love it. Our new hire poured through our build notes / layouts / schematics over the last couple of weeks and we should be ready to update all doc this week!

He has done it while building a few units to see how it feels to build these things without any prior knowledge (something neither I or our other R&D guys can do - we just spent too much time on this so a lot of things are automatic and we don't notice small glitches in instructions, etc). 

Should be good. Just a couple more days.

V


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> guys, you're going to love it. Our new hire poured through our build notes / layouts / schematics over the last couple of weeks and we should be ready to update all doc this week!
> 
> He has done it while building a few units to see how it feels to build these things without any prior knowledge (something neither I or our other R&D guys can do - we just spent too much time on this so a lot of things are automatic and we don't notice small glitches in instructions, etc).
> 
> ...


That's great news Valery. Just in time for me to no longer need it! (mines 98% done)

I've already started a build thread for mine and I plan to update it once complete.

I'll openly say here for the record. At first I was a bit disappointed/ annoyed at the quality of the instructions and a couple of missing parts. 

Once you get your head around it it is fine and is actually very well designed and not too hard to build. All in all I'm happy with mine, despite the missing parts.

My feedback to EMW is to have much clearer build instructions, much tighter quality control (from a component selection point of view) and to keep version control simple.

I'd highly recommend only releasing major versions as a kit. If anybody wants to modify that with later developments then they'll have to do the extra work rather than confusing everything.

If you want somebody (that doesn't know the charger inside out) to have a read and comment on the instructions before you release them then let me know.

Also happy to trial build one following the instructions word for word if you like, I could even put one of the junior guys with no prior knowledge on it to see just what can go wrong! 

Cheers,

Mike


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Skooler
> 
> OK, How do you know and why, I am afraid I am a complete novice at EV building but I am learning fast, I had no idea what PFC meant other than looking it up on Wikipedia, (Power Factor Correction) after speaking to my EV expert (Jozzer) he said it was not neccesary for the minor correction I would recieve in the charging performance, there was no mention of it affecting the power companies profits (Like I care!).
> 
> ...


If you have a newer smart meter that they read with a Ir Device or is networked they will know and they may want to charge you. 
To be fair I wouldnt use in excess of 16Amps without PFC for several reasons but that is my personal opinion. Using 60Amps is nonsense it will cause extra stress on the components, wiring, etc and if you need to use the charger on a public point you will take more time to recharge.

I would also be aware of the older sockets. While in Europe 16Amps is typical here in the UK we have 13Amp sockets and the breaker or the fuse dont really care if you take 16 untill something melts down. So you may actually be charging at 2000Watt (that should be safe) however the circuit may be drawing 16Amps. This is the reason of those fancy plugs for auto use. Ive burned a few sockets in the past pulling in excess of 20Amps. The fuse just very got hot, but it didnt burn. Eventually the socket melted down and stoped making electric contact.

Typical residential service on my area is 60Amps. You might want to check yours before as you will either have to use PFC or reduce the charging current.

Last it depends on your battery voltage. For example, the only reason I can charge my 307V pack witout PFC is because my supply is 245-250VAC which is a nonsense, but still I dont charge at more that 13Amps (usually 4Amps). I am working on my own PFC to use on public charge stations. 



sexstrap said:


> I remember my old electronics tutor years ago telling me about a mod you could do to florescent tube lights to reduce the power consumption to nearly nothing (it was either removing a capacitor or resistor from the driver board can’t remember which) the power companies did not like this either!
> 
> is this something similar?
> 
> ...


On Inductive loads (motors, older flurescent and sodium lamps, etc) you can use the described method to correct PFC using a capacitor and assuming the load is constant, but the charger is actually the oposite: capacitive. Not only that, it only absorbs power on the small window the diodes are conducting, so you really need an active PFC circuit if you want to have a corrected power factor.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You might consider adding a line reactor to improve power factor. I found a 1.4 mH 11 amp single phase reactor for $24 + $14 shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MagneTek-5P...or-Conditioner-TCI-9702-5P10450-/321010079514

I did an LTSpice simulation with a full wave bridge, 10,000 uF capacitor, and a 10 ohm resistive load, with a 95 volt RMS 60 Hz sine wave input. The results are:


```
No Reactor   93.9V 35.2A RMS  124.6A peak 1.68 kW  3.305 kVA  50.8 PF
 
With Reactor 95.5V 16.3A RMS   32.0A peak 1.22 kW  1.558 kVA  78.3 PF
```
Maybe a low-tech solution is the easy way to fix this. If you need more current, here's a 35 amp unit for about $60:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENZE-308-1...98MH-35A-AMP-2945B-32775-R20872-/380616217534

For more information:
http://www.powertransformer.us/aclinereactor.htm
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pd...e/energystatus/powerquality/line_reactors.pdf
http://www.schaffner.com/en/downloads/file-download/file/line-reactors-in-power-electronics.html


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> You might consider adding a line reactor to improve power factor. I found a 1.4 mH 11 amp single phase reactor for $24 + $14 shipping:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MagneTek-5P...or-Conditioner-TCI-9702-5P10450-/321010079514


It will work assuming it is operating at full load.
Once the load drops or the charge reaches CV the power factor will drop again, so you'll need different ones to charge on a 16, 32 or at home with a 60Amp supply.

Some computer power supplies have this, also knows as "passive pfc" which is no more than an heavy inductor in series with the AC supply.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Yes, it works best at full load, but at light loads the PF is not really a problem. For instance, with a 100 ohm load, I get this:


```
With reactor 95.3V  2.31A RMS   6.4A Peak  144.4W  220.1 VA  65.6 PF
 
No reactor   93.7V  5.25A RMS  27.4A Peak  174.9W  491.9 VA  35.5 PF
```
It greatly reduces the peak current and the PF is still reasonable. For a stationary home charger, the size and weight are not a concern and it's a very reliable and cheap way to bring the PF and peak currents below what might cause power quality problems and complaints from neighbors or the power company. A line reactor is also very effective at shrugging off high line transients as may be caused by lightning or high voltage wires falling across the 120/240 service lines due to wind, falling branches, and ice. An electronic PF correction circuit - not so much.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> guys, you're going to love it.
> Our new hire poured through our build notes / layouts / schematics over the last couple of weeks and we should be ready to update all doc this week!
> 
> He has done it while building a few units to see how it feels to build these things without any prior knowledge


Excellent!



> (something neither I or our other R&D guys can do - we just spent too much time on this so a lot of things are automatic and we don't notice small glitches in instructions, etc).


Exactly!



> Should be good. V


 I agree!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> You might consider adding a line reactor to improve power factor. I found a 1.4 mH 11 amp single phase reactor for $24 + $14 shipping:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MagneTek-5P...or-Conditioner-TCI-9702-5P10450-/321010079514
> 
> I did an LTSpice simulation with a full wave bridge, 10,000 uF capacitor, and a 10 ohm resistive load, with a 95 volt RMS 60 Hz sine wave input. The results are:
> ...


Thanks for pointing out this great option, Paul. Not too heavy, either - less than 1kg. Getting 2 of those in parallel is still a bit cheaper than adding a PFC front-end and adds only 4 lbs. 

Active PFC is, of course, a textbook solution and results in near-perfect PF across all load levels.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

Just double checking everything before powering up.

I put a big question mark in the instructions meaning t go back over this...

Under the instructions for the driver board (section 3e) they state:



> Solder 1uF caps directly onto the pins of each of u1,2.


I assume that this is for both the ISO124P opamps?

I only ask because the below picture (clearly an older driver board) has no caps soldered to it.

Can you confirm or perhaps provide an updated picture? are these essential?

Cheers,

Mike


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> Yes, it works best at full load, but at light loads the PF is not really a problem. For instance, with a 100 ohm load, I get this:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


I have one of those rated for 1.5KW sitting on my desk.
It didnt work well with the pack charging at 160V, so today I decided to charge the pack as a whole at 320V.

I get 60% PF at 200Watt, 80% at 800Watt and 82% at 900Watt. 
Original PF was 44.

Nice one Paul 



valerun said:


> Active PFC is, of course, a textbook solution and results in near-perfect PF across all load levels.




I have some PFC power supplies here and while they get 99% PFC at full load, loads below 10% of the rated power have very low PFC of 30%.

They start having decent power factor (70+) above 20% load.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Valery

Ok, so here is my progress so far.

This is for NON-PFC, Single phase, UK 220V AC. 

*Update 1 ***Warning the LM211P is reverse orientated here as you can tell from the screen print underneath, Top right hand corner IC***
DO NOT RUN YOUR CONTROL BOARD WITH THE LM211P INSERTED THE WRONG WAY AROUND AS IT IS SHOWN BELOW, I DID IT RESULTED IN A BLOWN LM211P AND 2N2222!*

*Update 2 *** C32 & R13 in the sensing circuit are also wrong in this photo I have only just discovered that the small orange ceramic (1uf) capacitor is used here not one of the blue ceramics (0.1uf) This will cause a voltage sensing error which should be spotted during low voltage tests, in fact I had 2 mistakes in my sensing circuit, C32 was 0.1uf instead of the correct 1uf, and R13 was 27K instead of the correct 2.7K. *











*Arduino board (V10)*

(h.) in v9.2 build notes, I assume D4 is D1 marked on V10 board?
Other than this I hope this board is good?










*Driver board (V9.5)*

U2 – I am assuming the white A7520 replaces U2 on the V9.5 non-PFC board and that it is required for my board as it was supplied, however the build notes I have are for non-PFC (V9.2) and don’t advise of any support components for this chip, in comparison to Jehu’s photos (p108 in this thread) S1,S2,S3,C1,C2,C5,C? (between U1&U3) are not present and not advised by the 9.2 build notes to be fitted, should I fit all these components as in Jehu’s build? (I don’t have the transistors, not supplied, I have 12 of the x 0.1uf blue caps left)

Also R3 & R14 are not fitted are these the 27K R13 & R15 described in (f.) of the v9.2 build notes (also not supplied), are these required?

Also, (l.) Of the v9.2 build notes “place 2 pin HV connector” also not supplied and the holes on the V9.5 driver board are smaller than the ones in Jehu’s build, I do have a selection of male and female standard voltage pin connectors left over (supplied) can I use these or should I get a 2 Pin HV plug and socket that fits these smaller holes? (I may be able to reclaim a suitable connector of an old PC motherboard, I am an IT Tech so I have many computer boards etc laying about, although I am not sure if these are rated for HV, they do look identical to Jehu’s HV connector)

And one last thing on the V10 driver board, can you tell me if my male spade connectors are in the right place, I have copied Jehu’s placement but not sure if this is correct, or if I need all 3, v9.2 build notes only mention fitting the 2 female ones on the IGBT side and 1 on the other side that connects to the 82K resistor (b. iii of the power board build notes).

(p.) of the driver board build notes says “insert 3 male spade’s” but (according to the v9.2 build notes) I would only have 1 female fitted on this side of the board?
I am guessing that these positions are correct and that I should have a female spade in both the G1 & E1 positions, (I am 1 female spade short) on the Power board (Driver side).



















*Power board*

I am thinking this is all good other than the E1 female spade (already mentioned in driver board issues above) not fitted yet (I have 1 female spade left for this) and G1, I will have to suck some solder out here to fit Female spade if required (must be surely?) oh and R46 is not fitted, not supplied is this required for non-PFC, I guess not?

I have not siliconed the caps yet either.

As you can see most of my current issues are with the driver board.

Appologies for the large post, but I was trying to be as exact as possible in the descriptions so I dont have to post lots of times.

Many thanks in advance of your eagerly anticipated reply ;-)

Graham


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Valery,

I am finally getting finished with my build from November, and wanted to check with you before putting power to the input. I ran the test under 11a and 11b of the manual.
Everything is working so far (but I had to remove the LCD from the mini breakout board for LCD and buttons you supplied because the reset was being grounded, and the display wouldn't power up. it looks like this is a non-issue with the new board layout.)

Unfortunately I am running into another problem. After calibrating the voltage to 60V, the display lists error "battery not connected or reverse polarity. Press any button to ignore"










If I ignore, then it completes the rest of the steps. duty cycle goes to 97% and voltage reads 60V correctly.










any ideas?



thanks,

-Jason


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Just double checking everything before powering up.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - not essential. We are dropping these in the latest version of build notes (which is being finished hopefully today!)

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

cts_casemod said:


> I have some PFC power supplies here and while they get 99% PFC at full load, loads below 10% of the rated power have very low PFC of 30%.
> 
> They start having decent power factor (70+) above 20% load.


interesting. we should measure ours at 1kW. will do. the only reason I can think of why this might be the case is oversized input caps which distort the current shape. The input caps are the only components sitting outside of the PFC chip control loop that is supposed to force input current into sinusoidal shape.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Awesome report, Graham. Thanks for posting photos - this really makes a difference. Guys - this is the best practice when you have a question / problem - post a high-res photo of the boards!



sexstrap said:


> *Arduino board (V10)*
> 
> (h.) in v9.2 build notes, I assume D4 is D1 marked on V10 board?
> Other than this I hope this board is good?


Yes, D4=D1. Is being corrected in latest notes. Also, pls populate C45-47 (0.1uF). You will also need to place a blue button from the back side (left of Arduino board on your photo). This will be used to turn off the LCD for Arduino programming. 




sexstrap said:


> *Driver board (V9.5)*
> 
> U2 – I am assuming the white A7520 replaces U2 on the V9.5 non-PFC board and that it is required for my board as it was supplied, however the build notes I have are for non-PFC (V9.2) and don’t advise of any support components for this chip, in comparison to Jehu’s photos (p108 in this thread) S1,S2,S3,C1,C2,C5,C? (between U1&U3) are not present and not advised by the 9.2 build notes to be fitted, should I fit all these components as in Jehu’s build? (I don’t have the transistors, not supplied, I have 12 of the x 0.1uf blue caps left)
> 
> Also R3 & R14 are not fitted are these the 27K R13 & R15 described in (f.) of the v9.2 build notes (also not supplied), are these required?


Yes, slightly different board. We talk about this on our page at http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7, in the PCB layout section. The link to the PCB file for this version is there, as well: http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/EMW-10000_DriverPCB_V9.4.pcb. Please refer to that for population of that section of the board.
Please note that the transistor-looking parts are *not* the transistors but rather voltage regulators. Can you check to make sure you don't have those? Also, pls check the transistor-looking parts you have populated on control board to make sure they all have '2222' labeling on them and not one of '78L05' or '79L05'?



sexstrap said:


> Also, (l.) Of the v9.2 build notes “place 2 pin HV connector” also not supplied and the holes on the V9.5 driver board are smaller than the ones in Jehu’s build, I do have a selection of male and female standard voltage pin connectors left over (supplied) can I use these or should I get a 2 Pin HV plug and socket that fits these smaller holes? (I may be able to reclaim a suitable connector of an old PC motherboard, I am an IT Tech so I have many computer boards etc laying about, although I am not sure if these are rated for HV, they do look identical to Jehu’s HV connector)


Yes, just use 0.1" connectors that you have. You will notice that we have skipped a position between all HV pins so it should not be a problem to use standard pin/housings. Just pay more attention to orientation when you plug things in as the resulting connector will not have polarity and can be mated in reverse by mistake.



sexstrap said:


> And one last thing on the V10 driver board, can you tell me if my male spade connectors are in the right place, I have copied Jehu’s placement but not sure if this is correct, or if I need all 3, v9.2 build notes only mention fitting the 2 female ones on the IGBT side and 1 on the other side that connects to the 82K resistor (b. iii of the power board build notes).


yes, your placement is correct - you can confirm by aligning driver board with your power board and checking where it will mate.



sexstrap said:


> (p.) of the driver board build notes says “insert 3 male spade’s” but (according to the v9.2 build notes) I would only have 1 female fitted on this side of the board?
> I am guessing that these positions are correct and that I should have a female spade in both the G1 & E1 positions, (I am 1 female spade short) on the Power board (Driver side).
> 
> *Power board*
> ...


Yes, you will need to fit female spades onto G1 E1. R46 is indeed optional on the non-PFC power board (omitted altogether on the next revision of the board). 

Sounds like there are a couple of missing parts (2x 78L05, 1x 79L05, 1x spade). All of them are quite small - could you pls do me a favor and double-check your packaging materials for those? Also, please check your Control board per my notes above to make sure you haven't placed some of these there by mistake?

Thanks again for a great write-up!
Valery.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

js1tr3 said:


> any ideas?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -Jason


Your images don't show up. They are in "dropbox" and you might need to change settings to make them public.


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

cant get dropbox to cooperate so here are the pics.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~siegeljb/emwc/


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi All - 

It's here (well, sort of)! ;-)

A preview version of the new self-consistent set of docs is at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

They should apply pretty well to all kits sent out in the last few months.

Please check the above link and comment. 

I will have my new assembler to go through again and build another unit per these instructions but he is getting better and better at assembly. Which means he gets worse and worse as a genuine tester of the instructions ;-)

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

js1tr3 said:


> cant get dropbox to cooperate so here are the pics.
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~siegeljb/emwc/


thanks for images. Could you pls remove the images from the post itself - they are so large that the page formatting gets pretty messed up ;-)

I can see them all in your link, right?

thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

js1tr3 said:


> Valery,
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I am running into another problem. After calibrating the voltage to 60V, the display lists error "battery not connected or reverse polarity. Press any button to ignore"
> ...


Hi Jason - what did you set your cell count at? If the charger sees significantly different voltage from expected, it assumes that something is wrong with the battery...


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can easily resize the images using MS Paint or any other image software. Usually 640x480 or 800x600 is good for forums. This is 800x600:










If the BBcode allowed it, this should also work:


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi All -
> 
> It's here (well, sort of)! ;-)
> 
> ...


 I looked over the pfc version build notes. Very significant improvement! Some things I noted:

Much more detail on tools and additional parts required, as well as links to sources of more specialized tools, right up front in the document.

BOM with link to it mentioned right up front. Also general listing of kit parts right up front.

More detailed instructions with photos showing each step clearly.

Clear photos showing connections on boards/between boards with labels on board clearly readable.

Myself, I could assemble the charger from these notes without the videos. Of course I am more familiar with it now, so as you mentioned with respect to your new build part time notes editor, a poorer judge of the documentation.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Guys - cross-posting from our EVSE thread.:

---------------------
All - we are launching our KickStarter campaign for the $99 Open Source Level 2 EVSE tomorrow at 1pm pacific time! WooHoo!

We will be sending out a separate note / post here once it is live and you can participate.
---------------------

Please don't reply in this thread so we can keep it on topic - go to http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=357126#post357126 and post there if interested.

Thanks!
Valery


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am looking at the 7 MB PDF document of "Build Notes", and I found some problems and have some suggestions:

1. Many of the links (such as the recommended multimeter and DC clamp-on) are not active hyperlinks and seem to be merely blue underlined text.

2. I doubt that you can get a DC clamp ammeter for $40. As you say, it may say AC/DC but clamp is AC only. And if you are really serious about taking measurements, you should get a meter with true-RMS AC+DC capability, and/or a digital storage scope. 
(a) Here are meters I found that are in that price range (and higher) and do not seem to be true DC:
http://www.amazon.com/Meters-PCMT20...372018737&sr=8-6&keywords=Digital+Clamp+Meter
http://www.amazon.com/Auto-ranging-Digital-Clamp-Meter/dp/B001VGND88/ref=pd_sim_hi_2

(b). These are meters truly capable of DC measurement, but at $100+, and some may not even be true RMS:
http://www.amazon.com/GTC-CM100-Current-Clamp-Meter/dp/B001TCWL1E/ref=pd_cp_hi_2

(c) This is true-RMS, $135, and yet only AC amps:
http://www.amazon.com/UEi-DL389-Dis...72019556&sr=8-21&keywords=Digital+Clamp+Meter

(d) These seem to be a good buy at about $70-$150 with true RMS AC/DC and some with capacitance (some are true-RMS AC only):
http://www.kmart.com/craftsman-professional-true-rms-ac-dc-clamp-ammeter/p-03473756000P
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_03416254000P
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MS2108-TRUE...608?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588814c138
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-F...302?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abc8cbe6e
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinometer-U...853?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25689446bd
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIPLETT-TR...917?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2328993e25
(It might be good to have a separate thread for recommended instruments for EV projects)​3. The labels on the PCB are aligned at four different angles. It is best to have them at no more than two angles for easier reading. And they also should be numbered in a consistent pattern with designators increasing left-to-right and top-to-bottom. The reference designations also should be placed so that they are visible after mounting the part (wherever possible), and they should follow the standard abbreviations (L for inductor, for instance, and not IND):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_designator

4. It may be best to have most of the board prebuilt with machine-mounted SMT components, and not offer so many options such as choosing an output diode or relay, which do not affect cost too much and can be confusing or cause damage if installed wrong.

5. Make sure that the silicone caulk you use (page 31) is electrical grade. Ordinary silicone releases acetic acid (vinegar smell) and this will slowly but inevitably erode the exposed copper and solder and cause problems, and the trapped acid is conductive and can cause leakage.
http://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-306-electronic-grade-silicone-sealant-adhesive/
http://www.mcmaster.com/#potting-silicone/=nbm0nx

6. It is a good idea to use the standard resistor color code for wire colors on connectors. So brown=1, red=2, ..., white=9, black-10, then start again with brown=11. Or you can use white/brown stripe for 11, etc. Pin 1 of connectors (and ICs) should almost always have a square pad, and I like to place the reference designator close to pin 1. If possible, connectors should be along the edges of the board, and should be numbered left to right on the edge closest to you. And use polarized connectors wherever possible.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I've already built an air cooled version of the EMW and it's working beautifully in my car. I was going to build a 2nd air cooled version for a friend, but because the kit was different enough I couldn't use the same CAD files and panel designs for the 2nd charger so it was on to plan B.










Since I had to start from scratch (or at least revise all of the panels) I told my friend he was getting my air cooled version and I'm going to build a water cooled one.

I bought an 8" x 8" x 0.75" aluminium plate for another purpose, however it's just about ideal for the EMW.






Test fitting the silicone gasket










Drilling and tapping the G1/4 threads, since the rest of my cooling hardware is computer stuff, standard fittings will thread in.










And a test fit of a 1/2" barb fitting. I may go with 90 degree fittings, depends on the final mounting location in the car.










Both barbs and the silicone gasket. I still have tons of holes to drill and tap on the top and bottom as well as around the edges. The asymmetrical design of the cooling channel is to leave enough room for the mounting holes on the other side for the IGBT's, diode, input bridges etc.










Test fitting everything on the block.










The final dimensions including mounting feet will be:
10" x 8.3" x 5.5" This doesn't include the barb's or cooling hoses that will run out the side.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

RW, what is the board to the right of the driver board in the second to last photo? And is that the special sauce to make it all work in the bottle in the same photo?


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> RW, what is the board to the right of the driver board in the second to last photo? And is that the special sauce to make it all work in the bottle in the same photo?


The board on the right is the guts of a 12v universal input wall wart I had laying around. That seems to be Valery's new method so I thought I'd give it a try, much smaller than the previous brick.

Yes the bottle on the right is what really makes this thing work. Should have made it onto the BOM!!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I've already built an air cooled version of the EMW and it's working beautifully in my car. I was going to build a 2nd air cooled version for a friend, but because the kit was different enough I couldn't use the same CAD files and panel designs for the 2nd charger so it was on to plan B.


RW, your build reports are awesome. Love the bottle, too - will make into the BOM in V14, I promise. ;-)

Yes, 2A 12V supply is sufficient for the current kit (using our spec'ed fans, anyway - 0.6A each x2).

PS. You've seen our new machined enclosure, right? Perfect for an air cooled kit... ;-)

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Paul - super-informative as always.

Quick responses below:



PStechPaul said:


> 1. Many of the links (such as the recommended multimeter and DC clamp-on) are not active hyperlinks and seem to be merely blue underlined text.


you're right. this is odd. will fix. must be PDF conversion run amok...



PStechPaul said:


> 2. I doubt that you can get a DC clamp ammeter for $40. As you say, it may say AC/DC but clamp is AC only. And if you are really serious about taking measurements, you should get a meter with true-RMS AC+DC capability, and/or a digital storage scope.


http://www.amazon.com/MASTECH-MS210...1881946&sr=1-1&keywords=400A+DC+current+clamp
is the link in the build manual. It is 400A DC but not true RMS. We've got it in the shop here. Works fine for general checks etc.



PStechPaul said:


> [/INDENT]3. The labels on the PCB are aligned at four different angles. It is best to have them at no more than two angles for easier reading. And they also should be numbered in a consistent pattern with designators increasing left-to-right and top-to-bottom. The reference designations also should be placed so that they are visible after mounting the part (wherever possible), and they should follow the standard abbreviations (L for inductor, for instance, and not IND):


will deal with alignment and visibility issues right away. 

Reference sequence is harder as it will require re-syncing everything across all materials. major multi-day effort. 



PStechPaul said:


> 4. It may be best to have most of the board prebuilt with machine-mounted SMT components, and not offer so many options such as choosing an output diode or relay, which do not affect cost too much and can be confusing or cause damage if installed wrong.


true. that's what we plan to do with our upcoming EVSE product. We thought about this for the charger product but decided that the volumes are too low to justify time / $ spent on redesign of the boards and job setup. Also, the major revisions are being made now almost on a quarterly basis so we don't run up the # of units high enough to amortize this investment. But maybe we should take another look at this once the EVSE product is off the ground. 



PStechPaul said:


> 5. Make sure that the silicone caulk you use (page 31) is electrical grade. Ordinary silicone releases acetic acid (vinegar smell) and this will slowly but inevitably erode the exposed copper and solder and cause problems, and the trapped acid is conductive and can cause leakage.
> http://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-306-electronic-grade-silicone-sealant-adhesive/
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#potting-silicone/=nbm0nx


updated in the BOM



PStechPaul said:


> 6. It is a good idea to use the standard resistor color code for wire colors on connectors. So brown=1, red=2, ..., white=9, black-10, then start again with brown=11. Or you can use white/brown stripe for 11, etc. Pin 1 of connectors (and ICs) should almost always have a square pad, and I like to place the reference designator close to pin 1. If possible, connectors should be along the edges of the board, and should be numbered left to right on the edge closest to you. And use polarized connectors wherever possible.


very good points. will try to adopt as many as we can without major time spend.

Thanks again, Paul!

Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

...as I was writing up the MODS section of the build manual, I realized that we can get up to 35kW from this charger in DC-DC mode! 

All you need to do is bypass one or more processing stages and add some minor tweaks to the firmware! This would be very useful in battery-to-battery charging or solar-to-car charging, etc.

For some details on how to get this working, see the MODS section in the updated build manual here: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/EMW-12000_PFC-V12-Build_Notes.pdf

We will include the necessary firmware tweaks in the next firmware release.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Paul, thanks for the heads up on the images. I resized them.

Valery, you were correct about the number of cells. ( I see that is in the new version of the build notes)

Since I was using a 60V supply to "simulate" the battery once I changed the number of cells down to 18 (from 30 specified in the build notes). I'm getting past the "battery not connected error." Next step is to proceed to the HV testing (maybe I'm going too slowly).

quick question, why does the build notes say fit in-rush limiters in parallel (2 and 0.5 ohms supplied in my kit) ? doesn't this just further reduce the resistance? It was my understanding that you shouldn't put NTC devices in parallel.

thanks,

-J


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

js1tr3 said:


> quick question, why does the build notes say fit in-rush limiters in parallel (2 and 0.5 ohms supplied in my kit) ? doesn't this just further reduce the resistance? It was my understanding that you shouldn't put NTC devices in parallel.


not anymore  new build notes specify putting one in each incoming AC line. So they will effectively be connected in series.

We need to figure out something about mounting those in the next revision of PCBs...

V


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Awesome report, Graham. Thanks for posting photos - this really makes a difference. Guys - this is the best practice when you have a question / problem - post a high-res photo of the boards!


No problem, my photos are a little large and blurry but that is the best my ixus 50 in macro could manage, 5mp is looking a little dated now.



> Yes, D4=D1. Is being corrected in latest notes. Also, pls populate C45-47 (0.1uF). You will also need to place a blue button from the back side (left of Arduino board on your photo). This will be used to turn off the LCD for Arduino programming.


Great, will do this and thanks for the heads up on the blue button I did not even notice this!



> Yes, slightly different board. We talk about this on our page at http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7, in the PCB layout section. The link to the PCB file for this version is there, as well: http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/EMW-10000_DriverPCB_V9.4.pcb. Please refer to that for population of that section of the board.


Ah, now I see the file I need I cant read it it has the extension .man what am I supposed to use to view/read this file? ***Update*** OK, RTFM! I am showing my noobness here "express PCB" open the .pcb file and use "set component properties" to show me which component is which, thanks Valery.



> Please note that the transistor-looking parts are *not* the transistors but rather voltage regulators. Can you check to make sure you don't have those? Also, pls check the transistor-looking parts you have populated on control board to make sure they all have '2222' labeling on them and not one of '78L05' or '79L05'?


I have checked the transistors, I definitely only had 4 and they are on the arduino/control board, they are all 2222's, not to worry, it's not worth sending such small low value components and I may even have some 7805's in stock somewhere.



> Yes, just use 0.1" connectors that you have. You will notice that we have skipped a position between all HV pins so it should not be a problem to use standard pin/housings. Just pay more attention to orientation when you plug things in as the resulting connector will not have polarity and can be mated in reverse by mistake.


Thanks, will do.



> yes, your placement is correct - you can confirm by aligning driver board with your power board and checking where it will mate.
> 
> Yes, you will need to fit female spades onto G1 E1. R46 is indeed optional on the non-PFC power board (omitted altogether on the next revision of the board).


Great.



> Sounds like there are a couple of missing parts (2x 78L05, 1x 79L05, 1x spade). All of them are quite small - could you pls do me a favor and double-check your packaging materials for those? Also, please check your Control board per my notes above to make sure you haven't placed some of these there by mistake?


Yes all these bits are missing, I was very careful not to bin anything by mistake, and in fact it was so well packed that it would have been impossible as the small components box was taped completely over all sides with brown tape to avoid bits coming out in transit, however I may have lost the female spade, they are tiny and shiny difficult to see if dropped, as I said not to worry I will source these locally.



> Thanks again for a great write-up!
> Valery.


No Problem, Thanks for the great/prompt feedback

Graham


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

To Valery:

I am almost done assembling (have rev.10 boards), my own enclosure created out of old PC case (10"x9"x7"). Uploaded successfully the FW: [.../EMW-10000_firmware_V09.zip[/url] . About to connect all the high power cables to Power Board. Have few questions:

1) Is the above FW the latest for PFC version?
2) Bunch of your pictures of Control Board show some cables connected to "A out", "B out" and "5V out". Cannot find any reference in old or new instructions. Should I ignore it (I do not want to miss anything)?

Thanks


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

george7g said:


> To Valery:
> 
> I am almost done assembling (have rev.10 boards), my own enclosure created out of old PC case (10"x9"x7"). Uploaded successfully the FW: http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/EMW-10000_firmware_V09.zip . About to connect all the high power cables to Power Board. Have few questions:
> 
> ...


Hi George - you're right - there shouldn't be any connections to A/B/5V on driver boards. These are for multi-stage setups when many power stages are driven from one master control board.

Valery.


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks Valery.

What about the first question? Is this the latest rev. of the FW?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

george7g said:


> Thanks Valery.
> 
> What about the first question? Is this the latest rev. of the FW?


try dev version (link on same charger page): http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/charger_2012_09_01_V09_3_ISO.pde

Valery.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

sexstrap said:


> Don't give up now Jehu, you are so close and some of us are watching your build closely...
> Graham


Not giving up, well sorta..... I had to take a break I was just too frustrated, I'm not used to struggling so much.


Due to the fact I have limited experience in electronics and that I didn't have build instructions for the V9.5 of the driver board and I couldn't find any pictures on this thread I decided to have Valery pre-populate and test controller and driver boards and send them to me. I just need to get my car going, charging is the only thing keeping me from driving my EV, my pack is bottom balanced just waiting for its first charge.

Now I will find out whats wrong with these boards as I plan on eventually building them into a PFC charger with a custom built aluminum enclosure, i'll take my time on that project.

The interesting thing is that it seems like member js1tr3 is having the same issue Im having, his charger is behaving the same way.
It reaches duty = 96.9% in a few seconds and it shows 0.0A out and 0.0AH in. (post #1117)


Few hours ago Valery sent me pictures of the finished tested boards and something caught my eye.

C3 and C4 Caps seem to be missing on my driver board, So i installed them and tested 

No Luck no change, well.... a 0.2AH difference


Sexstrap it looks like your driver board is also missing C3 and C4 Caps


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I completed the build of the EMW charger some time ago but I cannot get it to run the EMW program. 

I have the EOC and BMS inputs shorted together (the two pins closest to the Arduino on the 7 pin male header below the Arduino on the Control Board), and verified they are shorted by measuring with a DVM between the sockets in the female connector plugged into the male header on the Control Board. 

I have un-commented the "define DEBUG" line of code as the build notes say, but not the "define DEBUG0" line:
//#define DEBUG0 // just increase maximums
#define DEBUG // additional printouts / delays / etc.

"define pfc" is also un-commented (I have a pfc unit):
#define PFC // is this a PFC unit?

I compiled the EMW code, charger_2010_09_01_V09_3_ISO.pde, and uploaded it to the Arduino Pro Mini. LEDs on the FTDI flashed indicating communication.

When I then plug in the charger 12V adapter to 120AC, the fans turn on and the LCD lights and displays its identifier “uLCD-144…” The LCD does not go “live” with input from the EMW firmware. The red LED on the underside of the Arduino Pro Mini lights and remains on, the green LED does not.

I opened the Blink example program in Arduino sketch, compiled it and uploaded it to the Arduino Pro Mini mounted in the Control Board in the charger. It ran fine. The green LED on pin 13 on the Arduino blinked on/off at 1 second intervals.

So the Arduino Pro Mini, programming cable, driver, etc seem to be fine. 

Why doesn't the EMW program run??


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

How is the screen connected? have you got anything to display on the screen at all?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Yes, the screen has power to it and displays it's default identifier which is "uLCD-144" plus some other stuff, but it does not "go live" with input from the EMW program. The screen is mounted on the back of the control board, with its pins soldered directly to the board, no separate box/cable.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Ah OK, only mention it as had a similar issue with mine, turned out I had the pins on the screen mixed up but that isn't possible if it's mounted directly to the board.

sorry cant help


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Not giving up, well sorta..... I had to take a break I was just too frustrated, I'm not used to struggling so much.
> 
> 
> Due to the fact I have limited experience in electronics and that I didn't have build instructions for the V9.5 of the driver board and I couldn't find any pictures on this thread I decided to have Valery pre-populate and test controller and driver boards and send them to me. I just need to get my car going, charging is the only thing keeping me from driving my EV, my pack is bottom balanced just waiting for its first charge.
> ...


Hi Jehu - the C3/4 shouldn't matter that much. They are adding supply stability for mains voltage measurement that is not as critical.

I think the problem here is the PWM signal from Arduino does not reach the driver. Something best to check with scope probe along the signal path, unfortunately. 

Anyway, your assembled and tested boards are on their way to you now - I think you should be getting them on Thu. Let us know how it goes then.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Yes, the screen has power to it and displays it's default identifier which is "uLCD-144" plus some other stuff, but it does not "go live" with input from the EMW program. The screen is mounted on the back of the control board, with its pins soldered directly to the board, no separate box/cable.


is there a chance that LCD's serial input got damaged during the reverse polarity incident?

PLs do the following test: take out Arduino board, connect to FTDI, upload the firmware, and then in Arduino IDE open Serial monitor (Tools menu item). You should be seeing comms from EMW firmware in that monitor window. Let us know what you get (maybe a screenshot?)

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> is there a chance that LCD's serial input got damaged during the reverse polarity incident?


I was thinking that's about all it can be. It can probably post the identifier info without the additional on-board communications functioning on the board. I found the LCD, uLCD-144 GFX, on Sparkfun, but it seems to have been discontinued and replaced with one with different pins, the uLCD-144 G2 GFX. Didn't see it on tinyos.



> PLs do the following test: take out Arduino board, connect to FTDI, upload the firmware, and then in Arduino IDE open Serial monitor (Tools menu item). You should be seeing comms from EMW firmware in that monitor window. Let us know what you get (maybe a screenshot?)


 Sure...
















I was trying to think of a test that would give some detectable signal that would verify the Arduino was running the EMW code, narrowing it down to the LCD. That did it. Know of a current source for the LCD?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

May as well post some photos while I wait to get another LCD. This is the pfc version, with buck inductor rewound for higher output current (~85A) for my lower voltage pack (36 series connected cells).

7 pin connector for EOC, BMS, etc on LHS, 6 pin programming cable connector next to #4 welding cable outputs to Anderson connector.








AC input








AC adapter is unplugged here, can see some of the Acetal (Delrin) fixturing for the inductors, which are sitting on a 1/4" thick sheet of Acetal.








Mount for AC adapter, lower # turns inductor I wound (looks as bad as EMWs)








AC leads go to terminal strip on inside rear of enclosure (green is tied to the enclosure), inrush current limiters mounted on terminal strip, connecting AC input to AC leads to input bridge.








Front, showing Control and Driver boards








#4 +/- output leads, buck coil connection on standoff lower RHS








8 AWG connecting output diode to Power Board, 4 AWG output lead from diode, Vout sense wire attached to diode with ring terminal.








Control Board








Driver Board


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> May as well post some photos while I wait to get another LCD. This is the pfc version, with buck inductor rewound for higher output current (~85A) for my lower voltage pack (36 series connected cells).


Looking good! Does your control board have a single or double-row socket for the LCD?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Looking good! Does your control board have a single or double-row socket for the LCD?


 The board is still in the charger so a bit difficult to see, but it looks like single row, 5 pins, which seems it would be the newer LCD-144-G2 GFX board, correct? I'll pull it later today when I have time and verify.

Edit: Ah, got it in better light, and see there are two rows of 5 pins each, so appears to be the G2.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> The board is still in the charger so a bit difficult to see, but it looks like single row, 5 pins, which seems it would be the newer LCD-144-G2 GFX board, correct? I'll pull it later today when I have time and verify.
> 
> Edit: Ah, got it in better light, and see there are two rows of 5 pins each, so appears to be the G2.


Good. that's what I thought. So it would be compatible with G2. You do need to reflash the LCD from GFX to simple serial. You would need an LCD programming dongle for that. Or if you haven't ordered yours from sparkfun yet, we can send you one already programmed. Would def be cheaper than LCD + programming dongle.

Let me know.

V


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery.

I have been having trouble getting the screen to operate. I have v9.1 with the external LCD board.

After a bit of troubleshooting I realised I had soldered the screen to the wrong side of the external LCD board (stupid mistake!!). That is now fixed but on powering everything up I have nothing.

I managed to trace it back to the 12v regulator (mounted to the case just after the AC adapter) I can measure ~15v going in but only a few mv coming out.

I assume its had it. I just checked the old BOM and cant find the part or it's part number. Is this regulator still required? if so what should I replace it with?

Cheers,

Mike


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery.
> 
> I have been having trouble getting the screen to operate. I have v9.1 with the external LCD board.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike - does the regulator have any output without load? Those things are self-protecting and can withstand a short. if you see 12v output without load and only a few mv with the load, that means the load is shorted.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

guys - latest version of build notes - more photos, checked on 4 builds now, 60 pages long.

Check it out. Posting updated PCB files tomorrow.

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/EMW-12000_PFC-V12-Build_Notes.pdf


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi valery. Measured only a few mv with nothing connected. I'll get a replacement. Output needs to be 12v right?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi valery. Measured only a few mv with nothing connected. I'll get a replacement. Output needs to be 12v right?


yes, 12v. looks like it's toast...


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> yes, 12v. looks like it's toast...


Yep, not sure what has caused it (tad worrying).

Could you confirm the below part will work?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/2a-positive-fixed-voltage-regulators-7939

partnumber: L78S12CV

Sorry to be a pain. I really wish I'd have purchased version 10 of the kit, Reading the instructions and seeing pictures it looks so much simpler!


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Ditto on the version 10, looks much better/simpler. Probably wouldn't have taken quite so long to decipher the instructions and build.

I had similar problems with LCD when soldered into breakout board caused RST pin tied to ground. result == no screen. I bought the G2 version, re-programmed it, and got it working before I realized the problem. Removed the old screen from the breakout board and wired it up correctly and it works perfectly. As for the 12V supply I bought one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002FH54L6/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1

-Jason


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Is this what is required to reflash the uLCD from GFX to serial?
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11814
-plus software downloaded from their site?


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> You will also need to place a blue button from the back side (left of Arduino board on your photo). This will be used to turn off the LCD for Arduino programming.


Valery, is the blue button a push to make or toggle type switch?

I would describe the other two buttons on the control board as "push to make" (cant remember the correct terminology for this at the moment)

and "Toggle type" would be push once to make and again to break the connection, i.e. toggling on and off (or connected/unconnected).

And as for the 78L05 & 79L05's on the control board I am guessing these are T092 package type?

Graham


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Looks like it.
I Got mine here, 

http://www.robotshop.com/4d-programming-cable-usb-serial.html

little cheaper, but with shipping its a wash.


----------



## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

sexstrap said:


> I would describe the other two buttons on the control board as "push to make" (cant remember the correct terminology for this at the moment)


I think you mean a momentary switch. See, you almost had it on the tip of your tongue


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Valery, is the blue button a push to make or toggle type switch?
> Graham


 It is two position, in/out, out for uploading firmware, in for operation. Edit: in is closed, out open.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

js1tr3 said:


> Looks like it.
> I Got mine here,
> 
> http://www.robotshop.com/4d-programming-cable-usb-serial.html
> ...


Thanks. Ordered the one from Sparkfun since I've ordered there before and don't want anymore passwords.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Good. that's what I thought. So it would be compatible with G2. You do need to reflash the LCD from GFX to simple serial. You would need an LCD programming dongle for that. Or if you haven't ordered yours from sparkfun yet, we can send you one already programmed. Would def be cheaper than LCD + programming dongle.
> 
> Let me know.
> 
> V


 I already ordered one by the time I saw this. Emailed you about a possible swap + $ but no response, so I ordered a programming cable.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Yep, not sure what has caused it (tad worrying).
> 
> Could you confirm the below part will work?
> 
> ...


yes should work


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Recorded a little video of my charger troubles, the saga continues.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jbbJ44Kibw&feature=youtu.be


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Recorded a little video of my charger troubles, the saga continues.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looked at your videos. the current state seems to be quite different from the last time. Is your output connected? Couldn't reliably tell from the video. When you measure voltage on the output, what do you see - before charger starts and after it goes through to 'charging complete' stage?


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> looked at your videos. the current state seems to be quite different from the last time. Is your output connected? Couldn't reliably tell from the video. When you measure voltage on the output, what do you see - before charger starts and after it goes through to 'charging complete' stage?



What the hell is wrong with youtube? im pretty sure i uploaded a 5 minute video, not sure why its only showing 1:40 minutes of it, I think its me, im cursed. 

Anyways I also uploaded it to vimeo and look at that it shows you the entire thing 

https://vimeo.com/69285497


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> What the hell is wrong with youtube? im pretty sure i uploaded a 5 minute video, not sure why its only showing 1:40 minutes of it, I think its me, im cursed.
> 
> Anyways I also uploaded it to vimeo and look at that it shows you the entire thing
> 
> https://vimeo.com/69285497


I saw the full duration (more than 4.5 minutes). Any details on my questions?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ok guys some PCB porn below. ;-) 

Got the power boards form Electronic Interconnect. Soooooo nice! Thanks Paul for your suggestion to try them out!

While ExpressPCB boards worked fine, these represent a significant improvement. 4oz copper - 3x thicker than before which will help carrying all the current we need.. Boards themselves are 50% thicker, as well, so they virtually don't flex anymore at all. 

These in the photo are huge 22x16" boards! about 3x in surface compared to the super-lame ExpressPCB capabilities! 

We will be testing these in the next few weeks and will post some results. In the meantime, we are reducing the price of the current version of PCBs (and, correspondingly, the kits) by $75 - till supplies last. PM me if you'd like to take advantage of this promo and order your kit / PCB set today.

PS. In other news, our PFC build notes, images, and PCB layout files are now official and frozen until next release (the new EI boards below match the directions, as well). Same link as before: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

Thanks!
Valery.


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Nice PCBs there Valery, I will probably be ordering some of the power boards later since i have an extra cotroller and driver board now.


Anyways, update on my troubles with my built


valerun said:


> looked at your videos. the current state seems to be quite different from the last time. Is your output connected? Couldn't reliably tell from the video. When you measure voltage on the output, what do you see - before charger starts and after it goes through to 'charging complete' stage?


I uploaded another video
https://vimeo.com/69366555


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

I'm still having issues with my LCD using the external LCD board

On powering up, all that is displayed is the default screen for the LCD (indicating it has power). nothing else.

Instructions for this board are non existent but it looks like it should be simple. I have created a cable to connect it the control board, as per your reply a few pages back.

I also found I had a flakey 5v so have reinforced the PCB tracks using copper wire.

Could you take a look at the two below images in case I have made an obvious mistakes?

I can email you a copy of the code that I uploaded to the charger in case it is of any use?

I've also noticed that the lcd is labelled "uLCD14" not 144, should this matter?

Finally, could it be that a different LCD library is needed for this board?

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Nice PCBs there Valery, I will probably be ordering some of the power boards later since i have an extra cotroller and driver board now.
> 
> 
> Anyways, update on my troubles with my built
> ...


Thanks. 

Looks like there might be 2 issues:

1. Setup is not matching battery you are connecting. What is the cell count you have specified in your charger setup. You mentioned 80V battery - this is ~25 cells, correct? With battery connected, turn on the charger, interrupt the first 5-sec timeout and specify 350 as your CV cutoff, 25 as your battery count, and your correct capacity. When asked to short the output, just press a green button to override (your new boards are already calibrated). 

2. somehow power does not get to the output (as your light is still not lighting up). I need to see the connection of the driver board to the power board - please shoot a video of the insides of the unit, focusing on that area. Might be easier to snap some stills...

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I'm still having issues with my LCD using the external LCD board
> 
> ...


nothing super obvious but can you check your TX / RX connections to the LCD from Arduino? Arduino's TX (transmit) should go to the LCD's RX (receive) and Arduino's RX should go to the LCD's TX.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi valery. Tx goes to rx and rx to tx. I have checked continuity between the control board and the lcd board ( between arduino pins and lcd pins) and it all seems ok. Anything else to check? Cheers, mike


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Looks like there might be 2 issues:
> 
> ...



I have 32 cells on my pack currently, i started with 2.7vdc per cell so pack voltage was 86.4v but since i've been running tests on the charger and powering the lamp i've lost the 6volts so i am now at 80v

here are the pictures of my driver board connected to the power board


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> I have 32 cells on my pack currently, i started with 2.7vdc per cell so pack voltage was 86.4v but since i've been running tests on the charger and powering the lamp i've lost the 6volts so i am now at 80v
> 
> here are the pictures of my driver board connected to the power board


Jehu - pls don't use your pack for any more tests. Until you get the lamp light up with the charger, do not proceed to the battery step.


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Jehu - pls don't use your pack for any more tests. Until you get the lamp light up with the charger, do not proceed to the battery step.


Ok, so any chance that it could be a bad IGBT? What else can it be?

Is this a good replacement? http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=19K9207
or this one?
http://www.newark.com/powerex/cm200du-24nfh/igbt-module-1-2kv-200a/dp/19K9213?ref=lookahead


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Ok, so any chance that it could be a bad IGBT? What else can it be?
> 
> Is this a good replacement? http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=19K9207
> or this one?
> http://www.newark.com/powerex/cm200du-24nfh/igbt-module-1-2kv-200a/dp/19K9213?ref=lookahead


Hi Jehu - I don't know. It's really difficult to debug these things remotely without scope readouts etc. It is unlikely that the IGBT is bad. I really need a picture / video of your connections to help you further.

V


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Hi Jehu - I don't know. It's really difficult to debug these things remotely without scope readouts etc. It is unlikely that the IGBT is bad. I really need a picture / video of your connections to help you further.
> 
> V


Are you not able to see the 3 pictures i posted? or is it they are not particularly helpful?

pictures:


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

skooler said:


> Hi valery. Tx goes to rx and rx to tx. I have checked continuity between the control board and the lcd board ( between arduino pins and lcd pins) and it all seems ok. Anything else to check? Cheers, mike


Valery,

Just seen post 1145 of this thread.

I can confirm that I see the "Thank you for choosing EMW Charger!" message in the arduino serial monitor.

I guess this means that its either a cable issue (mismatch) or the screen has had it.

What should I do next?

I can confirm it is wired as below



> Hi Mike - in your version, the LCD board connects to the set of pins right on top of the Arduino on the control board. There are 6 wires you will be connecting (left side - control board, right side - LCD board; pin numbers given from the left of the Control board pin set - orient the board so that the pin set is on top of Arduino board and you are looking at the board from the component side):
> Tx (pin 2) -> Rx
> Rx (pin 3) -> Tx
> Vcc (pin 4)-> Vcc
> ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Valery,
> 
> Just seen post 1145 of this thread.
> 
> ...


You have replaced your LCD, correct? And it reflashed fine with the serial firmware? Can you now try to reflash it again and see if that works? If that works, then your LCD is fine. If not, somehow it got damaged again. Note that you don't need to take the LCD out of the circuit to reflash it - just make sure you don't have anything that could be sending conflictign signals on the TX/RX lines.

Thanks,
valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Are you not able to see the 3 pictures i posted? or is it they are not particularly helpful?


Hi Jehu - sorry they were not loading for me earlier for some reason. Can you take a clear picture of the control board with all the connections to it? It's a bit blurry in your second photo.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> nothing super obvious but can you check your TX / RX connections to the LCD from Arduino? Arduino's TX (transmit) should go to the LCD's RX (receive) and Arduino's RX should go to the LCD's TX.


also, pls check that you don't have any solder bridges on the small LCD board. I would just check resistance between RX and TX, RX and GND, and TX and GND while the LCD board is unplugged from the control board.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> You have replaced your LCD, correct? And it reflashed fine with the serial firmware? Can you now try to reflash it again and see if that works? If that works, then your LCD is fine. If not, somehow it got damaged again. Note that you don't need to take the LCD out of the circuit to reflash it - just make sure you don't have anything that could be sending conflictign signals on the TX/RX lines.
> 
> Thanks,
> valery


Hi Valery,

No, this is still the original LCD sent from EMW. How would I go about getting a replacement or a programming connector?

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> No, this is still the original LCD sent from EMW. How would I go about getting a replacement or a programming connector?
> 
> ...


ok got it. We could send you a pre-programmed LCD. You would then connect it through a simple 4-position cable to the control board and check operation. Alternatively, you could send us your control board and we can check it with the new LCD and see if the LCD is even a problem.

Pls PM/email me with what you'd like to do.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Hi Jehu - sorry they were not loading for me earlier for some reason. Can you take a clear picture of the control board with all the connections to it? It's a bit blurry in your second photo.
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery.


Ok how about this one








Full size: http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3696/6kta.jpg

The new driver board is bigger than the old one so i'm in the process of moving everything 3/8" to the left side of the heatsink so the driver board hs clearance on the chassis


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Ok how about this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


seems correct. can you measure the voltage on the output pad of the power board as the charger ramps up (into a lamp load)? Output pad is the one going to the diode. Let us know how it behaves - what it starts with, how it changes as charger ramps up, etc.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> ok got it. We could send you a pre-programmed LCD. You would then connect it through a simple 4-position cable to the control board and check operation. Alternatively, you could send us your control board and we can check it with the new LCD and see if the LCD is even a problem.
> 
> Pls PM/email me with what you'd like to do.
> 
> ...


PM sent


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

k guys only 1 PFC kit left at $75 off. Let us know who wants it ;-)

Happy 4th.

V


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Had a chance to put the charger back together again today. Found the right standoffs on MCMasterrCar.com Wished they had longer ones but these will do

Removed the clear silicon and used the right Electronics grade white silicone instead. Replaced the High voltage 10 Gauge cables to 6 Gauge, better safe than sorry.




valerun said:


> seems correct. can you measure the voltage on the output pad of the power board as the charger ramps up (into a lamp load)? Output pad is the one going to the diode. Let us know how it behaves - what it starts with, how it changes as charger ramps up, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery.


I measured voltage between the middle pad of the IGBT and the output pad on the power board, and it always measures 0vdc, the charger ramps up to 96.9% duty but no change on the output.


I inspected the IGBT closely and it looks like its had some swelling, there is a tiny crack on the pad where the phillips screw is at, is there any way to test this thing?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can do a very rough check of an IGBT or MOSFET by using a DMM to apply a voltage to charge the gate capacitance and then checking for continuity from collector (drain) to emitter (source). You might need a higher voltage than most DMMs put out on ohms or diode check, but I have tested some modules this way.

A better test is to put a 1k-10k resistor across the gate terminals, and a 12V lamp from the collector (drain) to a battery (+) terminal, and the (-) terminal to the emitter (source). A 9V or 12V battery will work. Then connect a jumper (or pushbutton switch) from the battery (+) to the gate (perhaps through a 100 ohm resistor to be safe), and the lamp should light while connected. 

You can use a larger battery and a heavier load for a more comprehensive test, where you can check the voltage drop while on. And you can also check for breakdown voltage if you use a current limited insulation tester (Megger or Hipot). 

You can get high voltage low current supplies surplus pretty cheap, and I think you can also use the flash circuit from disposable cameras. Here are some ideas (the higher voltage supplies may be handy to test wiring for insulation breakdown):
http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/me...AR&Product_Code=TM90PWS1164&Category_Code=PWS
http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/me...AR&Product_Code=TM92PWS2091&Category_Code=PWS

Here is something that seems perfect. 5VDC in, 400VAC output, only $3. You may need a bridge rectifier to get DC, and then use something like a 1 Meg resistor to limit the current. 
http://www.mpja.com/CCFL-Inverter-5V-In_400V-Output/productinfo/18747%20PS/

You can get an insulation tester for about $55:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Meg...Tester-VC60B-DCV-ACV-resistance-/221018623378

Remember to follow safety precautions with all high voltage!


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

I just use any power supply in range of 10 - 17 Vdc, apply it to Gate (+) and Emitter (-), and then use multimeter to check the continuity or resistance between Collector and Emitter, it should be a short circuit with some voltage drop (around 1V at low test current). Then remove the power source and short the gate to emitter and there should be no continuity anymore (a very large megaohm resistance may be OK.)


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Valery,

I modified your code to work with the latest version of Arduino (1.05). Can you take a look?

https://github.com/js1tr3/EMWSmartCharge10000_Devel

I tried it out (in debug mode) and it was working to deliver 1A into my load at 60V. The next step is to connect mains and check the PFC circuit. Have to mount the inductors for better cooling also.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks guys for the recommendations. These are very good ways to quickly check IGBTs for a reasonably full set of properties.

I doubt Jehu's issue is going to manifest itself through these tests, however. The IGBTs almost always fail with something fused inside. Gate to Collector, Collector to Emitter, etc. The fact that his IGBT has full 330V on C1 and zero on E1, plus the fact that driver circuits are still intact, means that there are no shorts of any kind in the IGBT. 

That said, maybe there is a failure mode I have not seen yet... always possible, of course.

Jehu, what I would do in your case is get (buy, borrow) a scope. Nothing super - fancy is really needed. Something like this would work, too (a 72MS/sec 2+2 channel mini-scope for $180 from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/DSO203-72MHz-...8&qid=1373148814&sr=1-9&keywords=oscilloscope

Having a scope in your toolbox will drive HUGE improvements in your ability to understand and debug your projects. For example, you could easily trace your PWM signals all the way through all the circuits using a tool like this. 

Let us know what your IGBT tests tell you.

Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

js1tr3 said:


> Valery,
> 
> I modified your code to work with the latest version of Arduino (1.05). Can you take a look?
> 
> ...


awesome! Can you do a diff on pre- and post- modification so we can see what lines were changed? We are about to release a new firmware and I want to make sure we incorporate your update there.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys - we are thinking of selling a few of the assembled test units at a good discount - let me know if anyone is interested. These are perfectly operational units - the only thing is that they generally are not as pretty as our production units (;-). They have been in use for a while (few months) so we know they work well ;-)

Specifically, we have a couple of our High-Voltage units (battery voltage over 310V nominal) - one rated at 15kW, one at 18kW; and one liquid-cooled 12kW unit (universal output voltage).

Let me know.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't have the files on my computer at work, but I think you can view the diffs online using github at the following link.

https://github.com/js1tr3/EMWSmartCharge10000_Devel/commit/02ed7e79b0d846a8e1d3f476ebc84b7a8ea55b26

let me know if this works for you.

-Jason


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I received a new uLCD-144-G2 and flashed the serial firmware to it using the 4D IDE and the interface I referenced above from Sparkfun following these steps:

1) Selected “Create New Project”
2) Selected “uLCD-144-G2 and clicked “Next”
3) Selected “Serial”
4) Clicked on the “Tools” tab and selected “SPE load”, then exited without saving the project. LED's on the Sparkfun board flashed indicating communication.


After uploading the EMW firmware to the Arduino I turned on the LCD and got this message: "Missing internal file". Did the serial firmware not upload to the LCD properly?


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

You need to use PmmC loader to get the older SGC firmware.

http://www.4dsystems.com.au/downloads/Serial-Display-Modules/uLCD-144-G2(SGC)/PmmC/

or re-write the graphics driver to use the new firmware for v4 of the workshop .

I started this project but haven't had time to finish.


----------



## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

sorry details about the older firmware are here...
http://old.4dsystems.com.au/prod.php?id=231


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Thanks! Unfortunately, when I attempt to upload the uLCD-144rSGC-R17.pmmchttp://old.4dsystems.com.au/downloa...s/uLCD-144-G2(SGC)/PmmC/uLCD-144rSGC-R17.pmmc file using the pmmc loader in 4D I get an "access denied" message, then it just keeps retrying until I cancel.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

js1tr3 said:


> You need to use PmmC loader to get the older SGC firmware.
> 
> http://www.4dsystems.com.au/downloads/Serial-Display-Modules/uLCD-144-G2(SGC)/PmmC/
> 
> ...


Getting GLX working with the Arduino would be pretty cool I suppose. I would be interested in learning about your experience with 4D IDE and GLX programming. We were thinking of using these screens as standalone monitors for our various projects. The idea is to have a sensor attached to the screen's ADC, have processing happen in the LCD chip, and displayed right there. Stuff like cheap in-dash dedicated displays etc is possible.

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Thanks! Unfortunately, when I attempt to upload the uLCD-144rSGC-R17.pmmchttp://old.4dsystems.com.au/downloa...s/uLCD-144-G2(SGC)/PmmC/uLCD-144rSGC-R17.pmmc file using the pmmc loader in 4D I get an "access denied" message, then it just keeps retrying until I cancel.


Hi Tom - you would use a PMMC uploader (a standalone executable), not the IDE. I have just posted these files to our new repository at http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/ - go to Supporting/LCD folder and download PMMC zip file.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Shut things down, repeated, and it programmed successfully. Thanks again!


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Ok, now when power is applied to the 12V adapter the charger enters setup and displays "Cell type", but the choices (LiFePO4...) are being continuously cycled through quickly on the display and pushing the green or red button has no effect, it just keeps cycling through displaying the different types not allowing you to select one.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Shut things down, repeated, and it programmed successfully. Thanks again!


awesome. let us know how the power-up goes


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Ok, now when power is applied to the 12V adapter the charger enters setup and displays "Cell type", but the choices (LiFePO4...) are being continuously cycled through quickly on the display and pushing the green or red button has no effect, it just keeps cycling through displaying the different types not allowing you to select one.


The red button is jammed or wires leading to it are crossed / solder-bridged.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Tom - you would use a PMMC uploader (a standalone executable), not the IDE. I have just posted these files to our new repository at http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/ - go to Supporting/LCD folder and download PMMC zip file.
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery.


 pmmC upload is in the IDE also, under Tools (after you select the device and "serial"). That's what I used. Seems the cycling through the cell types would be a program error, but that doesn't seem possible since I am using the same firmware as others. Guess I'll check the code anyway in case it somehow was corrupted. Don't know what else to check.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

All - good news - both PFC and non-PFC BOMs, Build Notes, Assembly Photos, etc are now up to date and posted to http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

Let me know if any additional comments.

Thanks,
Valery.


PS. And we still have 1 kit at $75 off ;-)


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> pmmC upload is in the IDE also, under Tools (after you select the device and "serial"). That's what I used. Seems the cycling through the cell types would be a program error, but that doesn't seem possible since I am using the same firmware as others. Guess I'll check the code anyway in case it somehow was corrupted. Don't know what else to check.


Hi Tom - see my earlier post re potential solder bridge / button jam


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> The red button is jammed or wires leading to it are crossed / solder-bridged.


 Ahh, ok thanks. The button springs out after pressing, and there are no wires to it, just 4 pins soldered in the board far apart so no chance of solder bridge. Apparently the button is defective as all 4 pins are shorted to each other. Fortunately, I have another since the kit had two red buttons but no green, so I ordered a green.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Ahh, ok thanks. The button springs out after pressing, and there are no wires to it, just 4 pins soldered in the board far apart so no chance of solder bridge. Apparently the button is defective as all 4 pins are shorted to each other. Fortunately, I have another since the kit had two red buttons but no green, so I ordered a green.


check the orientation of the button, as well. If inserted 90 degrees off, it will look shorted all the way as you described. See datasheet here: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-1123&y=-74&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=401-1992-ND

V


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## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

its Alive!

http://warpedporsche.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-battery-charger-is-alive.html

I finally got around to testing it, not that I have ordered my batteries yet. 

Thanks Valery!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

js1tr3 said:


> its Alive!
> 
> http://warpedporsche.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-battery-charger-is-alive.html
> 
> ...


this is AWESOME, Jason - congrats! Get those batteries already! ;-)


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Ok I bought another IGBT of exact specs, installed it and connected a lamp (w two bulbs, one incandescent and one fluorescent) to the charger output, Applied 120VAC mains power. 
The charger told me there was no battery connected no voltage detected, 
I pressed the button to ignore,
Charger went into charger sequence,
Both bulbs lid up, incandescent burned up, Fluorescent started smoking 
After 10 seconds the 12V power supply quit 
I started smelling something burn so I disconnected power.


So it seems that maybe there was something up with the old IGBT.
Now I have to figure out why the 12V power supply quit, and after some investigation I found that the power supply is fine, the problem is in the driver board, A short has developed somewhere in the 12V circuitry.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Ok I bought another IGBT of exact specs, installed it and connected a lamp (w two bulbs, one incandescent and one fluorescent) to the charger output, Applied 120VAC mains power.
> The charger told me there was no battery connected no voltage detected,
> I pressed the button to ignore,
> Charger went into charger sequence,
> ...


Hi Jehu - 

A short is most likely due to power stage failure. The sequence usually goes like this: something goes wrong with the power stage (overvoltage / current, etc); IGBT fails with gate shorted to collector; driver circuit gets exposed to full 330V and Dc-DC and A3120 fail; DC-DC shorts out the primary 12V supply.

Not saying that this is what happened but could be. 

Some thoughts on the potential causes:
1. Did the lamps light up immediately after the charger went into the charging mode or gradually as the duty ramped?
2. Have you shorted the G2 E2 terminals of the IGBT?
3. Can you check for potential shorts between IGBT and the board on the bottom of the power board?

Thanks,
Valery


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> check the orientation of the button, as well. If inserted 90 degrees off, it will look shorted all the way as you described. See datasheet here: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-1123&y=-74&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=401-1992-ND
> 
> V


 That was it. Started testing. Passed initial tests through connecting 30-60V battery to AC inputs. Failed on checking output voltage with 110VAC to the adapter only and two light bulbs in series as the load. I have zero volt at the output rather than the connected battery voltage. Duty cycle was 97%. I have 15VDC to the IGBT pins, and have 39.9V between the middle and lower buck IGBT terminals with 41.2V battery (I assume by lower you mean closest to the front of the charger by the driver board), but 0 output voltage and current on the LCD, and I verified 0 V between the output terminals with a DVM.

Edit: Only thing I know of that I have different in the Arduino sketch is I un-commented MCC100A, since I have a custom lower inductance buck inductor.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Seems like a post got deleted. I had a notification of a post made 1:05 EDT today.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> Seems like a post got deleted. I had a notification of a post made 1:05 EDT today.


 Yeah, decided there was no point in posting it.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> That was it. Started testing. Passed initial tests through connecting 30-60V battery to AC inputs. Failed on checking output voltage with 110VAC to the adapter only and two light bulbs in series as the load. I have zero volt at the output rather than the connected battery voltage. Duty cycle was 97%. I have 15VDC to the IGBT pins, and have 39.9V between the middle and lower buck IGBT terminals with 41.2V battery (I assume by lower you mean closest to the front of the charger by the driver board), but 0 output voltage and current on the LCD, and I verified 0 V between the output terminals with a DVM.
> 
> Edit: Only thing I know of that I have different in the Arduino sketch is I un-commented MCC100A, since I have a custom lower inductance buck inductor.


FYI Tom and I are working this out over email and will post update when we are done.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Valery

I have another question on the build, I sent you an email initialy but I guess your are busy so I have resorted to hassling you here ;-)

Regarding the Diode Bridges (I have an MDS 150A 1600V, one supplied in the kit, it has 5 connections)

Do I need this at all if I am using single phase 240V AC (as I am here in the UK)? Or is this only used as part of the Voltage Doubler part of the charger (not required AFAIK for 240V single phase setups)

All the Build notes I have seen so far have only referenced the use of Diode Bridges when using Voltage doubler boards.

Also the "Current Limiters" appear to be connected to the Diode Bridges (as shown in "Zak650's" photo on Page 71 of the DIY electric car forum's charger thread)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210p71.html

All the wires coming from (what appears to be) the diode bridge in this photo (although the one in this photo has 6 connections) appear to be going to the voltage doubler boards, leading me to suspect that I don't need the diode bridge or the current limiters at all?

Am I correct in this assumption?

I don't suppose you would have any build notes for a "*Single Phase, Non-PFC, 240V AC*" build? (with a schematic for a "*Single Phase, Non-PFC, 240V AC*" build?)

i.e. build notes without any voltage doubling at all and no PFC boost board, I am primarily looking for some (build notes) that describe how to wire the 3 HV connections on the IGBT, for a *Single Phase, Non PFC, 240V AC*,UK setup?

Where I am supposed to connect the F*@king great 10000uf 400V capacitor? (being an electrolytic polarity is important but I am not even sure where I am supposed to connect it!)

and how to wire the supplied 12V AC adaptor to the charger? (although I may be able to figure this out from the existing build notes, as I have not gotten to this bit yet)

apologies for my confusion but all the build notes I have seen so far (and most, if not all the build's on DiyElectricCar) have been for either full PFC or 110V or both!

Many Thanks in advance

Graham


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I have another question on the build, I sent you an email initialy but I guess your are busy so I have resorted to hassling you here ;-)
> 
> ...


 I would guess that all builds are for 240VAC since you can't utilize the charger at its full power capability with 120VAC. Mine is 240VAC, pfc (posted photos several pages back). As far as I know all kits use an input diode bridge. There are two inputs to the bridge for the AC and two outputs for short wires soldered directly to the Power Board (see the overall schematic for the charger). There are actually four of these but you only use two - and make sure you use the correct two to line up with the holes on the Power Board.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

tomofreno said:


> I would guess that all builds are for 240VAC since you can't utilize the charger at its full power capability with 120VAC. Mine is 240VAC, pfc (posted photos several pages back). As far as I know all kits use an input diode bridge. There are two inputs to the bridge for the AC and two outputs for short wires soldered directly to the Power Board (see the overall schematic for the charger). There are actually four of these but you only use two - and make sure you use the correct two to line up with the holes on the Power Board.


Hello Tomofreno

Thanks for the reply, I am struggling a little here.

I cannot find any reference to any diode bridge's on the "overall schematic" (Rev 1.0, dated 3/24/2012) however there is mention of "IBGT Bridges" on the Power board schematic's, they are referenced as "top half of IGBT bridge" and "bottom half of IBGT bridge" but as the other "off board" components are marked clearly as "(off-board)" in this schematic and the IGBT bridges are not, I had assumed that these diodes were internal to the IGBT, are they, or are these the "Input Diode Bridges"?

The V12 build notes only mention the words "Input Diode" twice in the whole document, once in reference to heat sink marking and again in reference to heat sink drilling (which would make sense as the diode bridge I have is obviously meant to be mounted on the heat sink) but other than the diode's on the power board schematic (which may well be the one's) I can’t find any reference in the build instructions on how or where to wire the (Diode Bridge's or Input Diodes, if they are the same thing which from your reply I guess they are?)

I have looked at your photos and they have proved useful in clarifying to me how/where the inrush current limiters are supposed to be connected (and I have today found the reference in the build instructions to these inrush current limiters) so at least that is one hurdle passed, thanks.

But I am unable to identify the input diode/s (one package/part) as this would be fixed to the heat sink which is not shown in your photo.
also your build does not appear to have a very large single capacitor like the one shown on my blog, and I have no idea where I connect this

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/ 

(last/bottom most image on this first page) you can also see the diode bridge in this photo black thing near the current limiters.

Many Thanks

Graham


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I can't help you a lot with the non-pfc version, but go here:

http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7

and scroll down to where it says schematics. You will also have to download Expresspcb software to see them. The schematic that shows the input diode bridge is ...pfc&buck-PowerBoard_V9.0.sch. If you scroll down further it says additional assembly images. This photo of an input diode board is among them:

http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/images/assembly/2.html

You will have to reference the schematics, BOM, datasheets on devices from Digikey, etc. to gain some understanding of the circuits and what the different components are.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

tomofreno said:


> I can't help you a lot with the non-pfc version, but go here:
> 
> http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMcharger_V9.pl?cc=gfw7iuef7
> 
> ...


Hi again Tomofreno

Thanks, that was very helpful, I have now found the "off board" Diode Bridge on the PFC versions PFC&Buck Power board schematic as you described.

This schematic also shows the 2 current limiters and where and how you are supposed to connect them, thanks again this is really useful information.

However it leads me to believe that none of this is necessary for the Non-PFC version, as none of this is shown on the Non-PFC Buck Power board schematic (or in fact in any of the Non-PFC schematics!)

So I guess I will have to wait for confirmation as to whether I need these components or not from Valery, there was some confusion over the exact kit type I got as I was not supplied with an output diode initially (which Valery has since sent) but I was supplied with the input diodes (albeit in a single sealed package rather than a board with two bridge diode packages soldered to it) and 2 current limiters! 

The only one of these components that is shown on the Non-PFC schematics is the output diode, which was not initially supplied (Valery did explain how this genuine mistake had happened however)

Thanks again, another small step forward 

Graham


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> That was it. Started testing. Passed initial tests through connecting 30-60V battery to AC inputs. Failed on checking output voltage with 110VAC to the adapter only and two light bulbs in series as the load. I have zero volt at the output rather than the connected battery voltage. Duty cycle was 97%. I have 15VDC to the IGBT pins, and have 39.9V between the middle and lower buck IGBT terminals with 41.2V battery (I assume by lower you mean closest to the front of the charger by the driver board), but 0 output voltage and current on the LCD, and I verified 0 V between the output terminals with a DVM.
> 
> Edit: Only thing I know of that I have different in the Arduino sketch is I un-commented MCC100A, since I have a custom lower inductance buck inductor.


 This was finally traced to a poor solder joint on Pin 4 on the LM211 to the ground plane. It looked soldered (even with a magnifying glass), but showed indefinitely high resistance to other pins on the ground plane. After re-soldering it, the charger passed the test with ~40VDC to AC inputs and two light bulbs as load, output voltage was about equal input voltage! 

When populating the boards I was not able to use my small tipped soldering iron to solder the ground plane pins because it didn't have enough power - too much heat sinking. I used a larger iron, but would remove it as soon as I thought it was soldered for fear of applying too much heat. All other ground plane pins checked ok. 

On to the rest of testing! Thanks to Valery for all the help in pin pointing the problem! He directed me on what to test next, and suggested the poor solder connection as the problem.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Graham - sorry for a bit of a lag here.

Answers below:

> Regarding the Diode Bridges (I have an MDS 150A 1600V, one supplied in the kit, it has 5 connections). Do I need this at all if I am using single phase 240V AC (as I am here in the UK)? Or is this only used as part of the Voltage Doubler part of the charger (not required AFAIK for 240V single phase setups)

Yes, you need this - just not as a doubler but a simple rectifier. Connect input AC lines (through inrush resistors) to the ~ AC inputs of the bridge (use 2 of the 3 available AC inputs), and then connect +/- outputs of the bridge to the 10000uF cap.

> I don't suppose you would have any build notes for a "Single Phase, Non-PFC, 240V AC" build? (with a schematic for a "Single Phase, Non-PFC, 240V AC" build?)

Not yet but the only thing that's different is connection of the bridge to large cap. Rest is the same (electrically, anyway). 

> Where I am supposed to connect the F*@king great 10000uf 400V capacitor? (being an electrolytic polarity is important but I am not even sure where I am supposed to connect it!)

;-) it does look pretty impressive, doesn't it? ;-) Anyway, see above for how to connect the cap to the bridge. After you're done with that, you will connect the cap to the power board in the same way you would connect the voltage doubler board - + or cap to the bottom terminal of the IGBT (C1), '-' of the cap - to the middle terminal (E2).


> and how to wire the supplied 12V AC adaptor to the charger? (although I may be able to figure this out from the existing build notes, as I have not gotten to this bit yet)

yes, it is covered in the instructions. basically, you would connect the AC input of the adapter to the large cap (polarity does not matter) and output of the AC adapter would go to a 3-pin power connector on the driver board.


> apologies for my confusion but all the build notes I have seen so far (and most, if not all the build's on DiyElectricCar) have been for either full PFC or 110V or both!

no problem at all. Again, apologies for a bit of delay in response. 

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> However it leads me to believe that none of this is necessary for the Non-PFC version, as none of this is shown on the Non-PFC Buck Power board schematic (or in fact in any of the Non-PFC schematics!)


Hi Graham - as mentioned in my last post, you still need the bridge and inrush resistors in your version.

V


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Are the "bridges" in question the two copper wires that connect the two halves of the circuit board together? If so they are needed because without them you have no complete circuit between the two halves of the board which are isolated from each other. Is that correct Valery? I have version 9 charger.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Zak650 said:


> Are the "bridges" in question the two copper wires that connect the two halves of the circuit board together? If so they are needed because without them you have no complete circuit between the two halves of the board which are isolated from each other. Is that correct Valery? I have version 9 charger.


Hi Zak650

No, They are the "Diode Bridge Rectifiers" that are required for the AC input side, Valery has explained all to me now.

I was confused by the differences between the PFC & Non-PFC schematics, the Non-PFC schematics did not show either the Inrush current limiting "Resistors" (thanks Valery did not know these were just whopping great resistors, hence them getting rather hot as I understand) or the Diode Bridge Rectifiers.

Also the Diode bridge I have in my kit was a single encapsulated package rather than the two separate bridge rectifying diodes on a separate PCB shown in all the photos in the build notes, confusing me further.

I am easily confused when it comes to areas of tech that I am not familiar with and High Power High Voltage is not something I want to get wrong when I am connecting it to £3500 worth of Lithium Batteries! BOOM! ;-)

I think I should now have everything I need (information wise) to complete this beast, thanks again Valery & Tomofreno for your very helpful guidance.
Looking forward to posting my test phase 

I am hoping my EV may be running around mid August, so not long now.

you can check on the progress on my blog if anyone is interested, I have done a few updates recently.

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/

Graham


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

There seems to be some discrepancy between Build Notes V9 and Build Notes V12. 
V9 part 11d "Test full operation - small resistive load" starts with the instruction to comment out the "#define DEBUG" statement, connect the AC input of the 12V adapter to the AC input of the charger, and connect 110VAC to the charger AC input.

This corresponds to part 3b of V12 "Test the charger" except *V12 does not instruct to comment out the "#define DEBUG" statement*.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Testing completed through charging battery pack with 120VAC input. Photo of LCD while charging 119V pack at 11.4A (22.1% duty cycle):








Blurry, but best I could get. Now have to wait to get #8 power cord and connectors for 240VAC input before I can test at higher current.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Something to be aware of if you have a V10 Control Board: Mine had the 5 pin connector that the thermistor connects to labeled: GND, +5, UVLO, T2, Temp, from top to bottom, but the actual PC board connections are as given in the photos in the V12 build instructions: +5, UVLO, GND, T2, Temp. So the thermistor goes to the middle pin and Temp pin. My temperature readout didn't work until I moved the wire from top to middle pin.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Testing completed through charging battery pack with 120VAC input. Photo of LCD while charging 119V pack at 11.4A (22.1% duty cycle):
> 
> View attachment 16672
> 
> Blurry, but best I could get. Now have to wait to get #8 power cord and connectors for 240VAC input before I can test at higher current.


AWESOME. Congrats Tom!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

New Control and Driver PCBs are in. 

On Control Boards, provision for relays (for fan control, precharge if needed, etc).

Promotion - kits $50 off until the end of July!

Valery.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,
I've replaced the current sensor on my Version 9 non-PFC charger with a 100amp unit. My charger kit was shipped on 5-21-2012. What all will I need to change in the latest software dump for my charger. If this is not the correct file to use please let me know.

Thanks,
Zak


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> I've replaced the current sensor on my Version 9 non-PFC charger with a 100amp unit. My charger kit was shipped on 5-21-2012. What all will I need to change in the latest software dump for my charger. If this is not the correct file to use please let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Zak


Hi Zak - I will need to see photos of all your boards to make sure.

thx.
Valery


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

Here's a couple photos, the doubler board is pretty much buried un-viewable without disassembling:


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*

Hello Valery,

managed to power the unit up, tested it, hooked it up to the battery. Everything works fine except input voltage and temp reading.

Few questions:

1) The input voltage shows 150V ±2V. My mains input is ~120V. Why is it? I noticed that in your videos it shows the same when powered to 120V.

2) It appears that the temp reading is wrong. It shows absolute zero (-273). I checked the thermistor at the connectors - it reads 81.5kΩ at room temp.

Please help.

Thanks, George


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Here's a couple photos, the doubler board is pretty much buried un-viewable without disassembling:


Thanks Zak - you should be able to use the latest firmware from our 'official' page at http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/. Just make sure your #define statement set is matching your boards. See build manual (non-PFC) for details. Specifically, you will want to make sure that PFC and 7520 statements are commented out.

Let me know if any questions.

thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

one of the builds with new enclosure - thicker walls, longer cooling slots on the back, mounting holes for the sink and inductors, and three fans for better airflow. 

Kits are still $50 off (until end of July as mentioned in the last post).

Also, $100 off the fully built units now until the end of July, as well!


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Let me know if any questions.

thanks,
Valery.[/QUOTE]

Valery, I seem to recall that you might be using a different LCD these days. Does that matter? Are the library files in V12 the correct ones to use?

Thanks,
Zak


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> Hello Valery,
> 
> managed to power the unit up, tested it, hooked it up to the battery. Everything works fine except input voltage and temp reading.
> 
> ...


Hi George - #1 is fine - it shows something close to the rectified voltage. Latest firmware fixes this but let's get you rolling on the firmware you have now so we are sure we don't have any hardware issues.

#2 - try connecting your thermistor to positions 3 and 5 (looking at the control board with arduino board positioned vertically with 6-pin programming connector on top). On most recent control boards, the thermistor connection terminals points were moved to be closer. Please refer to the new manual if in doubt - http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

Let us know what happens.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Let me know if any questions.
> 
> thanks,
> Valery.


Valery, I seem to recall that you might be using a different LCD these days. Does that matter? Are the library files in V12 the correct ones to use?

Thanks,
Zak[/QUOTE]

just the pinout is different. all libs are still the same.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*

Quote:
Originally Posted by george7g 
Hello Valery,

managed to power the unit up, tested it, hooked it up to the battery. Everything works fine except input voltage and temp reading.

Few questions:

1) The input voltage shows 150V ±2V. My mains input is ~120V. Why is it? I noticed that in your videos it shows the same when powered to 120V.

2) It appears that the temp reading is wrong. It shows absolute zero (-273). I checked the thermistor at the connectors - it reads 81.5kΩ at room temp.

Please help.

Thanks, George



valerun said:


> Hi George - #1 is fine - it shows something close to the rectified voltage. Latest firmware fixes this but let's get you rolling on the firmware you have now so we are sure we don't have any hardware issues.
> 
> #2 - try connecting your thermistor to positions 3 and 5 (looking at the control board with arduino board positioned vertically with 6-pin programming connector on top). On most recent control boards, the thermistor connection terminals points were moved to be closer. Please refer to the new manual if in doubt - http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/
> 
> Let us know what happens.


Hello Valery,
Thanks for answering 1).

Re: 2)
Tried to connect to all three positions 1+5 (as orig. v9 manual), 3+5, 1+3. That means I tried GND+Temp (as orig. v9 manual), UVL0+Temp, GND+UVL0.
No difference - still get -273˚C.

Do not know which pin you refer to 1. I have the Control Board rev.10, the pins from the top are:
- GND
- +5
- UVL0
- T2
- Temp

Any other suggestion?

Thanks, George


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> Tried to connect to all three positions 1+5 (as orig. v9 manual), 3+5, 1+3. That means I tried GND+Temp (as orig. v9 manual), UVL0+Temp, GND+UVL0.
> No difference - still get -273˚C.


can you check voltage on pin A2 of the Arduino?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



valerun said:


> can you check voltage on pin A2 of the Arduino?


Just measured: 4.96VDC. On my Rev.10 Board A2 is connected to pin called Temp.

Hope that helps.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> Just measured: 4.96VDC. On my Rev.10 Board A2 is connected to pin called Temp.
> 
> Hope that helps.


so Arduino is not getting the signal. The way it works is there is a pull-up resistor (100k, R48), connected through a temp-gnd connector to a 100k nominal thermistor, thereby creating a voltage divider from 5v. What you see right now is the 5v voltage that is not being pulled down by a thermistor. Somewhere in the circuit there is a break - please check.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



valerun said:


> so Arduino is not getting the signal. The way it works is there is a pull-up resistor (100k, R48), connected through a temp-gnd connector to a 100k nominal thermistor, thereby creating a voltage divider from 5v. What you see right now is the 5v voltage that is not being pulled down by a thermistor. Somewhere in the circuit there is a break - please check.


I checked everything as you stated:

1. all solder joints are perfect
2. pulled out the R48 resistor, yes it is 100k

BUT,

I found that the PCB dwg V9 in manual is substantially different than my actual v.10 board:
a) the top pin called GND is actually not connected to ground but to +5 connected to 3-pin connector up left and cap C46!
b) everything seems to be shifted down by 1 pin.
c) I tried to run it by connecting one end of thermistor to temp and the second to middle GND pin on top left 3-pin header - same results -273˚C.
d) The top left 3-pin header is unoccupied, right?

I am attaching front and rear view.

Please advise.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> I checked everything as you stated:
> 
> 1. all solder joints are perfect
> 2. pulled out the R48 resistor, yes it is 100k
> ...


Thanks for photos! help a lot. As I suggested, your board has GND in the middle pin. Pls connect thermistor between that and Temp. But sounds like you did it already and it didn't work?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



valerun said:


> Thanks for photos! help a lot. As I suggested, your board has GND in the middle pin. Pls connect thermistor between that and Temp. But sounds like you did it already and it didn't work?


1. I did try to connect it to the ground of unoccupied 3-pin on the left top. No, it did not work. [see c) in my prior post]

2. There is no ground at any of the 5 pins left of Arduino board - please check the rear picture detail (click to enlarge the thumbnail).

What else should I try?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> 1. I did try to connect it to the ground of unoccupied 3-pin on the left top. No, it did not work. [see c) in my prior post]
> 
> 2. There is no ground at any of the 5 pins left of Arduino board - please check the rear picture detail (click to enlarge the thumbnail).
> 
> What else should I try?


middle pin is GND. It's connected to both ground planes - on top and bottom. can you check continuity between that pin and one of the ground pads?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



valerun said:


> middle pin is GND. It's connected to both ground planes - on top and bottom. can you check continuity between that pin and one of the ground pads?


Yes, you are right, it is connected through via. Measured 0.6Ω.
Plugged the thermistor to Temp and middle pin connected to ground - but still no cigar (-273˚C).

Is the Temp pin connected to correct Arduino pin on this mismarked v10 board?

What else?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> Yes, you are right, it is connected through via. Measured 0.6Ω.
> Plugged the thermistor to Temp and middle pin connected to ground - but still no cigar (-273˚C).
> 
> Is the Temp pin connected to correct Arduino pin on this mismarked v10 board?
> ...


yes temp pin is connected because otherwise you would not see -273. something is pulling that pin to 5v. have you measured voltage in the middle of the resistor divider formed by R48 and thermistor (just measure Temp pin)? this would be first thing I would do.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



valerun said:


> yes temp pin is connected because otherwise you would not see -273. something is pulling that pin to 5v. have you measured voltage in the middle of the resistor divider formed by R48 and thermistor (just measure Temp pin)? this would be first thing I would do.


I measured 0V between the Temp pin and GND pin. Thought that C43 0.1µF (104) is shorted, it shows 0Ω across, but it is not. Removed C43 and it still shows short between Temp pin and GND. Removed R48 (100kΩ) but it still shows short. No obvious defect anywhere.

Could it be defective v10 board?

Had anyone experienced this before?

EDIT - PROBLEM SOLVED:

Found a problem - DEFECTIVE v10 Control Board! 

The upper hole for the C43 cap is shorted to ground. I had to cut three traces to isolate that hole. I bypassed it, soldered the top wire of the cap directly to R48, and jumpered Temp pin to the same R48 end. 

Finally, I am getting correct heatsink temp reading! Yupee!


----------



## mrbigh (Dec 31, 2008)

Valery
Is the " EMW JuiceBox " available as a kit form yet?
Thanks


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp + input voltage reading*



george7g said:


> I measured 0V between the Temp pin and GND pin. Thought that C43 0.1µF (104) is shorted, it shows 0Ω across, but it is not. Removed C43 and it still shows short between Temp pin and GND. Removed R48 (100kΩ) but it still shows short. No obvious defect anywhere.
> 
> Could it be defective v10 board?
> 
> ...


Glad you solved it! But I don't see on your photos any defects on the board - the upper pad is clear of ground planes on both sides, no?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Wrong/no temp reading*



valerun said:


> Glad you solved it! But I don't see on your photos any defects on the board - the upper pad is clear of ground planes on both sides, no?


Yep, neither do I see anything wrong on either surface. Apparently, there is something wrong inside the board. Now when I isolated that hole it still reads shorted to the ground. Go figure.

Important is, that with your hints I started measure all the paths from Temp pin, removed C43, removed R48 and still got short. Then started cutting traces until this hole is isolated.

I am happy camper now! 


Glad that this is the only trouble I have encountered during the entire build! Managed to house everything inside 10" x 9" x 7".

Thanks for all your help!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Wrong/no temp reading*



george7g said:


> Yep, neither do I see anything wrong on either surface. Apparently, there is something wrong inside the board. Now when I isolated that hole it still reads shorted to the ground. Go figure.
> 
> Important is, that with your hints I started measure all the paths from Temp pin, removed C43, removed R48 and still got short. Then started cutting traces until this hole is isolated.
> 
> ...


WOW 10" x 9" x 7" is very cool! Please do post photos of the full setup once complete (open lid pls ;-))

Thanks!
Valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

mrbigh said:


> Valery
> Is the " EMW JuiceBox " available as a kit form yet?
> Thanks


was available on KickStarter until earlier today. Will be posting to the site tomorrow, as well - but at higher prices as promised ;-)


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

I have just put this question to Valery directly via email but I thought I should ask the charger forum thread as well.

I am considering J1772 connectivity for charging around the country at the myriad of charge points that are popping up in the UK at the moment.

However I am worried about this expensive connector/cable being stolen from the car so I was intending to wire the “cable end” of the J1772 cable and plug (the $149 one on EMW's website) directly to the charger that will be safely locked and secured (bolted) in the boot of my EV, I was then going to use the socket (the $89 one on EMW's website) at home and make it into a charge point on the wall of my garage.

What I am not sure about is, if I wire it in this way

a) is it safe, i.e. when the J1772 plug is pulled the charger will shut off? 
b) will the J1772 plug that is wired directly to the charger in the boot plug directly into a J1772 charge point (the male/female J1772ness is confusing me)

Sorry if this is a naive question but I am learning fast here, still in my 1st EV year and nearly on the road 

Anyway if what I am proposing is possible it would save money as there would be no need for a J1772 socket in the car and on the wall at home (2 sockets), and I would only need one J1772 Plug and cable, rather than a cable with J1772 Plugs at both ends (2 plugs) which would also be easily stolen whilst the car is charging at my local supermarket for example!

(I live in the UK and if it isn’t bolted down it won’t be there when you come back, guaranteed!)

Graham


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> I have just put this question to Valery directly via email but I thought I should ask the charger forum thread as well.
> 
> I am considering J1772 connectivity for charging around the country at the myriad of charge points that are popping up in the UK at the moment.
> 
> ...


Hi Graham

Great to hear you are close.

You need a female J1772 socket (inlet) to be installed in a vehicle. Then Male plug and wire gets connected to 230V wiring in your house. 

Hope that helps. 

V


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## aminorjourney (May 16, 2008)

Graham, 

I currently have a J1772 inlet for sale -- rated up to 70 amps, I believe. Let me know if you'd like to buy it £50 OVNO...


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Hi Graham
> 
> Great to hear you are close.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

I realise your suggestion is the normal solution for J1772 plug and socket fitting.

However, this would mean that I would need another (additional) "double ended" J1772 plug lead to connect the car to a charge point in town.

I was trying to avoid the need for this additional cable (which is £270 in the UK) and the likelihood that this very expensive additional cable would get stolen whilst I was walking around town waiting for my car to charge.

My question is - 

Is it technically possible to wire the plug and cable directly to the charger (safely secured in the boot) and when I want to charge in town I just open the boot reel out this cable and plug it into the charge point in town this would be a 1 cable, 1 plug, (1 socket at home) solution.

rather than 1 socket on the car, 1 plug & 1 cable wired into my wall at home, and an additional lead with 2 plugs for connecting my car to a charge point in town, this is a much more expensive and potentially steal able option.

Or are public charge points the wrong gender? for my proposed simpler, cheaper, more secure, solution.

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

aminorjourney said:


> Graham,
> 
> I currently have a J1772 inlet for sale -- rated up to 70 amps, I believe. Let me know if you'd like to buy it £50 OVNO...


Hi aminorjourney

Thanks for the offer, I have sent you a private message.

Graham


----------



## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

sexstrap said:


> However I am worried about this expensive connector/cable being stolen from the car so I was intending to wire the “cable end” of the J1772 cable and plug (the $149 one on EMW's website) directly to the charger that will be safely locked and secured (bolted) in the boot of my EV, I was then going to use the socket (the $89 one on EMW's website) at home and make it into a charge point on the wall of my garage.


The cable with the fancy connector is always connected permanently to the EVSE (the fixed charging points). There is a female plug mounted somewhere on the car that is connected to the onboard charger. This plug is often mounted under the gas cap cover on our DIY projects.



sexstrap said:


> What I am not sure about is, if I wire it in this way
> 
> a) is it safe, i.e. when the J1772 plug is pulled the charger will shut off?
> b) will the J1772 plug that is wired directly to the charger in the boot plug directly into a J1772 charge point (the male/female J1772ness is confusing me)


a) The disconnect button on the connector is both a switch and the physical release. When you push the button the EVSE disconnects the power so, yes the charger will shut off. It has no choice because the mains power is disconnected.

b) Makes no sense since the cable cannot be connected to the car. There is no place to plug it in at a charging point.

To reiterate, you need a female connector mounted on the car that is connected to the charger. The charger will need to read the signal sent out by the EVSE that first tells it that it is connected to an EVSE and second how many amps it is allowed to draw from the EVSE. The charger then sends back a signal that tells the EVSE to turn on the power. You will need an EVSE with a cable mounted in your garage that plugs into the car. The EVSE can be nothing more than a circuit breaker connected to the cable which you will manually turn on after connecting the cable to the car or it can implement the J1772 protocol. For insurance purposes I suggest you buy a certified EVSE or if something happens your insurance will probably not cover your loss.

What a lot of people do is have a second connector mounted somewhere on the car where you can plug in an extension cord that can go to a regular wall outlet and carry an extension cord along. For times where a J1772 charge station is not available.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> The cable with the fancy connector is always connected permanently to the EVSE (the fixed charging points). There is a female plug mounted somewhere on the car that is connected to the onboard charger. This plug is often mounted under the gas cap cover on our DIY projects.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


exactly. Thanks Doug


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi,

A bit offtopic, 
I have been reading about your newest level 2 charging station, but may I ask, is there a way for we, DIY users to actually use that system in our regular cars? Say you have the charging station, sure you still need some hardware on the car, would you be able to supply that?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

cts_casemod said:


> Hi,
> 
> A bit offtopic,
> I have been reading about your newest level 2 charging station, but may I ask, is there a way for we, DIY users to actually use that system in our regular cars? Say you have the charging station, sure you still need some hardware on the car, would you be able to supply that?


Hi - thanks for the question. Yes, our chargers are J1772-enabled. We also sell J1772 inlets in our store - http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store. Recommend to get that for any conversion - to be able to use all the public charging stations. Mount it in place of your gas inlet and you have a very slick installation.

Valery.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Complete unit 10" x 9" x 7"*



valerun said:


> WOW 10" x 9" x 7" is very cool! Please do post photos of the full setup once complete (open lid pls ;-))
> 
> Thanks!
> Valery


Here they are. 

- Used old PC case, reduced the height and depth. 
- LCD is remote on top - used 2x5-pin connectors and 10-lead cable (since I did not know which leads are needed), the switches are in front. 
- The unit will be placed on the right hand side in the trunk behind the wheel well.

Question: do I really need the LCD switch to program the Arduino? What if I just unplug the LCD cable?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Complete unit 10" x 9" x 7"*



george7g said:


> Here they are.
> 
> - Used old PC case, reduced the height and depth.
> - LCD is remote on top - used 2x5-pin connectors and 10-lead cable (since I did not know which leads are needed), the switches are in front.
> ...


That's a cool-looking build, George! Kudos.

Yes, you can just unplug LCD cable for programming. In fact, you can just unplug LCD's TX line - that's what creates comms conflict with programming.

V


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> exactly. Thanks Doug


Hi Valery & Dougingraham

Maybe things are different in the states but here in the UK we have lots of Chargemaster charge points.

http://www.chargemasterplc.com/

If you scroll through the pictures on the 1st page you can see the 3 Pin UK "Socket", the J1772 is just the same a "Socket" under the flap below that one , No cables, Just sockets!

Here is the London borough of Hillingdon’s useful explanation of how you are supposed to use them.

http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/23026/Charge-master

As you can see by the photo the charge points are just 2 sockets, not hardwired cables!

And the Hillingdon info clearly states.

"If you need a charging cable, this can also be obtained from Chargemaster and you should provide details of the car, the charging rate for the vehicle along with the required connectors and Chargemaster will provide a quotation for a cable that meets your requirements."

Note the "Quotation" part of that disclaimer, so in other words here in the UK it appears that consumers have to shell out for a double ended J1772 plugged cable at the cost of £270!

Please note, This is not meant to be a bitch of any sort, but it does sound like the charge points you have in the US are supplied with a permanently wired J1772 cable, is this the case?

Are we being ripped off here in the UK (I would not be surprised) 

Anyway this brings me back to my question of is it technically possible to wire a single ended J1772 plug directly to the car to avoid the need for more expensive cables? and have a j1772 socket on the wall at home?

Graham

PS. Sorry about hijacking this thread, but I am trying to establish if it is possible to wire a J1772 plug directly to the EMW charger, I guess I should move this discussion to a J1772 thread somewhere else on this site, (any suggestions of where?) As a lot of this info is more J1772 that EMW charger, Sorry.


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Sextrap,

Fellow frustrated UK charge-station user here!

Basically, it's a complete farce! 

Some stations (most by me) have a male j1772 with cable that I can plug into the inlet on the car.

Others, have the IEC 62196 which I believe is the socket you refer to? (it's not a J1772)

My workaround was to buy a 70 amp J1772 cable and attach a 3 phase (red) commando socket to one end (it's a rugged 5 pin connector, not actually using it for 3 phase). I then created various adapters to allow me to plug into various plugs.

Currently I have:

IEC 62196 - 3 phase commando 
63 amp single phase (blue) commando - 3 phase commando 
32 amp single phase (blue) commando - 3 phase commando 
16 amp single phase (blue) commando - 3 phase commando 
13 amp UK 3 pin - 3 phase commando - 3 phase commando 

Each of these can then attach to the 3 phase connector with the j1772 connector at the other end (which connects to a single j1772 input on the car)

Far from ideal, the end result is you end up driving around with a boot full of adapters for various uses! I have about £800 worth of cabling, adapters sockets etc which I occasionally have to leave on the street ready to be nicked 

luckily, most of the stations by me have J1772 leads so not that much of an issue.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Mike


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

skooler said:


> Hi Sextrap,
> 
> Fellow frustrated UK charge-station user here!
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike

That has put me out of my misery (well sort of) at least I now realise that you are correct the chargemasters are Type 2 Mennekes sockets not J1772 (naivety corrected, still learning!).

I guess you would be a good person to ask then Mike, what in your opinion (knowing what you now know about the farcical charge point fiasco here in the UK) would you fit to your charger, if you were to do it all again?

Socket, Plug, and what standard if any fits most charge points, you have encountered?

Or is it wise to go for the J1772 in the hope that it will eventually be accepted as the universal standard. (it looks like the Type 2 Mennekes is currently the universal standard, is it not?)

Graham


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Complete unit 10" x 9" x 7"*

Posted on another thread (Charger selection help, by evmetro) by dougingraham:


> I have the EMW charger and even though it has been out a while now I still don't really consider it ready for prime time. The EMW charger needs an independent software audit. The software has little glitches which doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Occasionally the one I have powers up with the PFC section not operating. I can see this because I monitor the input to the charger. If left it will pop the breaker from over current.


 Have you heard of other cases of this Valery?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Complete unit 10" x 9" x 7"*



tomofreno said:


> Posted on another thread (Charger selection help, by evmetro) by dougingraham: Have you heard of other cases of this Valery?


Thanks Tom for posting. No I haven't. In fact I haven't heard about this one, as well. Doug - if you see this, pls PM me for debugging.

Note that the unit in question is a version from ~1 year ago. 

Re independent software audit - of course we warmly welcome any and all inspections of the code - it is completely open source and anyone can see it. All the reported glitches are generally fixed within days and updated firmware posted on our site and announced on this forum. 

Direct communication is key. If we don't know about an issue, we can't fix it.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

hey guys - check out this video we just shot on 3 12kW chargers operating at max power in parallel. Good demo of stacking multiple units.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn0Bqsaiugo


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

What's the reason for using 3 fans rather than 2? Was some part getting too hot?

Some questions on J1772:

1) For implementation with the EMW charger I just need to connect the pilot wire to the J1772 pin on the connector below the Arduino correct, nothing further?

2) I have a J1772 adapter I purchased from tusconev a couple years ago. Anyone know if special tools are required to remove the pins and solder new (longer) wires to them? How are they removed? Need more length to go from the gas fill to the charger under the hood, and I want it waterproof the entire length.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> What's the reason for using 3 fans rather than 2? Was some part getting too hot?
> 
> Some questions on J1772:
> 
> ...


Hi Tom - the reason for 3 fans is that we have adapted this enclosure to be used for our 25kW high-voltage units, as well. They need a bit more cooling on top due to taller inductor being used.

Of course, having 3 fans helps our main 12kW product, as well. but it is not critical.

1) you need to connect pilot to J1772 pin below Arduino and J1772 ground to GND of the control board (there is a GND pin on the same connector, as well)

2) Might be tough. I would just extend the wires you have and epoxy the connection point...


----------



## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

My replacement LCD and board arrived thismorning. Thanks for that!

Quick question: It has been supplied with an extra button, what does it do!? looking at the tracks it looks as though it removes 5v from the LCD?

Do I need to use this or can I just bridge the area on the RHS of the circuit board?

I will be unplugging the LCD from the control board and using the same headers on top of the arduino for programming so I assume it is not needed?

Cheers,

Mike


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> My replacement LCD and board arrived thismorning. Thanks for that!
> 
> ...


Yes, Mike - not needed if you unplug the LCD for programming. THen just short the 3rd button so LCD gets power.


----------



## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

Valery check your emails!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

powerhouse said:


> Valery check your emails!


replied. thx!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crazy question - what do you guys think of making EMW Charger WiFi enabled? We just successfully developed WiFi interface (well, unidirectional for now) for our JuiceBox EVSE product (shameless plug here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/emw/emw-juicebox-an-open-source-level-2-ev-charging-st). Was relatively easy to do...

BTW we still have those 3 chargers you saw in our latest video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn0Bqsaiugo). If you ask nicely, we can even extend our July $100 off offer on one of those... ;-))

Let me know.

V


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## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

If you implement WiFi on those devices, please make it capable of getting an address from an existing network via DHCP... the last thing I need in my car is another separate WiFi network! I already have a hotspot for the car, and the elithion WiFi dongle makes its own network...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

njloof said:


> If you implement WiFi on those devices, please make it capable of getting an address from an existing network via DHCP... the last thing I need in my car is another separate WiFi network! I already have a hotspot for the car, and the elithion WiFi dongle makes its own network...


We could do either. I would imagine there is a case for AP mode, as well - when you are charging somewhere other than your house and need to see the status etc on your phone standing next to the car, etc. Although you can use our EV Dash for that already...

something to think about in case we decide to do this...

thanks for feedback.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Also, wanted to ask you guys a strategic question - where do you think we should take these from here? What should be the next set of features built into the design? As you think about it, pretend you are us and you are interested in building features that would be useful for the largest number of people out there. I.e. exotic features that are interesting to 1-2 people in special situations are not what we are looking for.

Some possibilities:

Interface
1. WiFi / BlueTooth connectivity
2. CAN

Power specs
1. Higher power (nice but will people really be able to use it?)
2. Wider input power capabilities (e.g., 48V DC input, etc - today, the units are spec'ed for 100-400V input only)

Industrial design
1. Lower profile
2. protection from elements

Others?

What do people think?

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

Most production EVs have a remote status indicator either at the connector or on the dash -- as simple as flashing during charge and solid when fully charged. If there's a spare pin on the arduino board you could add it in software, and would serve BMS and no-BMS users alike.

An idiotproof manual would be great too. You put out a lot of information, Valery, but I promise you a good tech writer could do a really nice job on an operation manual.


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

I have 2 thermistor hooked up to two different heat sinks, I have the 2nd thermistor wired to t2 above the temp connection. Is that correct and do I need to change a setting in the firmware file to account for this?

Zak


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

njloof said:


> Most production EVs have a remote status indicator either at the connector or on the dash -- as simple as flashing during charge and solid when fully charged. If there's a spare pin on the arduino board you could add it in software, and would serve BMS and no-BMS users alike.
> 
> An idiotproof manual would be great too. You put out a lot of information, Valery, but I promise you a good tech writer could do a really nice job on an operation manual.


Manual is a great idea. Any tech writers in here who could help out? ;-)

re indication - there is an EOC output already on the charger that goes low when charge is complete. Can be wired directly into the LED (up to ~20-30mA). And of course, ideally we'd like you guys to use our Android - based EV dash for display - that way you not only see the charge status but see voltage, amps, temperature, etc.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I have 2 thermistor hooked up to two different heat sinks, I have the 2nd thermistor wired to t2 above the temp connection. Is that correct and do I need to change a setting in the firmware file to account for this?
> 
> Zak


Hi Zak - you do need to change the firmware. In the latest one, there is already a provision for dual temp sensing (originally designed for sensing temp of the inductors in our 25kW units but can be used for your application, as well). Check http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/. You are looking for IND_temp #define switch. You will need to change relative weighting of the two temp inputs in the related function in the firmware.

Let me know if questions.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

Valery,
One additional feature that you might consider is isolation for safety.
Joe


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

JoeG said:


> Valery,
> One additional feature that you might consider is isolation for safety.
> Joe


Thanks Joe. This is a whole new design. See my note on the topic at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=360623&postcount=14


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

Things went fairly well with reassembly and I'm back to the testing phase.
My testing pack is 17 calb CA100 cells. 
Power is supplied through the AC adapter. 
Adapter outputs 15V @3A. 
Everything goes fine voltage it suggests is 053, I confirm 
I set the cell count to 17 
charge parameter set @ 10A 
When I try running the charger for a split second multicolored printing appears on the screen too quickly to read then a message appears:
Lost AC input. Exiting in 5 sec.
Then 
Charging complete! Press right button to run again.

I tried shooting a video, very hard to make out, un-postable

multi colored frame of video looks like this, best I can make out:

Duty = 9.7x

Out = 0.0A, 53V

T = 23C
AH In = 0.0AH

Runtime = 0min

Zak


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Things went fairly well with reassembly and I'm back to the testing phase.
> My testing pack is 17 calb CA100 cells.
> ...


ok that looks good. The charger is constantly checking input voltage and exits if it doesn't see AC input (which you don't have yet in this logic-only test so it's normal). 

Next step is to connect your 53V pack to the input and use some resistive load on the output.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

OK guys - thanks for your suggestions over forum and in PM for next improvements.

We have decided that the next feature will be automatic control of all our charging systems via serial interface!

You will [very soon] be able to control the chargers by connecting to them via UART serial (or USB from your PC!) and monitor charging progress and issue commands such as "C55,V210" (ramp to 55A until you hit 210V), etc.

This will be an interim step towards a CAN-enabled system.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Valery


----------



## Nuts&Volts (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi there,

My only suggestion would be a lower profile liquid cooled version. I work on a lot of electric motorcycles and will have a lot of trouble fitting this charger on-board for long trips. A longer shorter charger that I can tuck in the tail, belly or tank would be great. Maybe this would help out with those other vehicle types as well. The weight isn't as much of an issue as the volume. 

Actually if I can have access to the CAD of the large components I could throw together a few ideas.

Keep it up. Love reading the updates. 
Kyle


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,

Still not working.

Limited test of Power + Logic stages: 240v ac in connected to 120v ac

screen:

Parameters
In 138V 10A
Out 10A
Timeout 0 min

While charging screen:

Duty = 93.3

Out = 0.0A, 0V
T = 24C
Ah In = 0.0AH
Runtime 2Min


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

Happy to report the LCD you sent worked a treat. No idea what could have been wrong with the old one?

Anyway, started testing and have successfully passed the dc input tests. Only issue is the temp reading is 75c+. Disconnecting the sensor harness fron the control board drops it to -5c. It jumps about a little here too.

Any ideas?

The other issue I have is when i connect AC to the charger it trips the breaker? Any ideas there?

Cheers,

Mike


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Still not working.
> 
> ...


this is with the resistive load on the output, I assume?

Most likely the PWM from Arduino D9 pin is not getting through to the driver board. I would check the signal path. Someone had a similar issue recently - turned out to be a bad solder joint on a LM211 comparator.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Happy to report the LCD you sent worked a treat. No idea what could have been wrong with the old one?
> 
> ...


On AC: are you connecting through inrush resistors?

On temp: pls check resistance of the pull-up resistor and the thermistor itself under ambient conditions.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

quick update on the Serial comms to the charger. 

This seemingly simple mod actually resulted in a reasonably sizeable rewrite of all LCD communication routines. Basically we started running out of RAM. With just 2KB of it on the Pro Mini, this is actually quite easy to do. So we had to move a lot of stuff into the PROGMEM. Problem solved (for now, anyway).

Here's how things work now:

1. On startup, the charger checks if the LCD is responding to its init commands

2. If LCD responds, the charger assumes it's in the 'manual' mode - regular operation commences

3. If LCD does not respond, the charger assumes it's in a serial-controlled mode

4. In serial-controlled mode, you can connect to the charger via simple terminal at 9600 baud. You can then monitor charger state and issue commands

5. Commands are contextual, with response depending on which state the charger is in right now. Every command is an ASCII string starting with symbols 'M,' and ending with ',E'.

6. If the charger is in 'waiting for command' mode (signified by 1Hz 'READY' message transmitted by the charger), the main command is 'M,ccc,vvv,E', where ccc is the CC current and vvv is the CV voltage. 

7. In the charging state, the charger will send an ASCII string with major parameters every second. Format: 'M,D0,C965,V334,T-68,O1,R0,E' - [D]uty 0%, output [C]urrent 96.5A, output [V]oltage 334V, heatsink [T]emp -68C, [O]utput charge 0.1AH, [R]untime 0 minutes.

8. In 'charging' state, the charger will accept a 'STOP' command. If issued once, the charger pauses. If issued twice, the charger stops. If, after the first STOP command, a START command is issued, the charger resumes. This is the same behavior as charger's response to manual button inputs in the manual mode. In fact, same functions are used... RED button is emulated by 'M,001,000,E' command, GREEN - by 'M,000,001,E'.

This set obviously is a 'Minimally Viable' set that allows for automatic control of the unit. Feedback welcome. 

In the next day or two, we will re-shoot our favorite demo of our 3 chargers running in parallel but this time controlled by an Arduino Due running 3 serial connections to these units. 

Stay tuned.

Valery


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

I sourced some inrush current limiters and that has solved the breaker problem.

Thanks for that!

I now have a new problem.

When connected to a DC source with a resistive load (two cooker hobs in parallel clamped to an aluminium block) the duty cycle begins to go up and then the screen goes blank (at around 60% duty, a couple of econds after the screen comes up) the screen then shows something about stage 2 (?) the duty ramps back up again to about 60% and the screen goes blank again. Eventually I get the battery disconnected screen but when I press a button to overide, it just comes back in a loop.

It has exactly the same symptoms when connected to an AC source except the duty only ramps up to about 9% in a split second (with an audible whine) before shutting off.

On my first DC test with a 14 cell pack it worked fine, duty sat at 96.9% for a good few minutes and the current eventually tapered down to 0.1A. the hobs got nice and warm - too warm to touch. I am now unable to replicate this.

Any ideas?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I sourced some inrush current limiters and that has solved the breaker problem.
> 
> ...


interesting. Any changes in how you route the LCD wiring? Remote chance that you are picking up some noise on your serial lines. Are they tightly twisted and away from high-power lines & esp inductors?


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> interesting. Any changes in how you route the LCD wiring? Remote chance that you are picking up some noise on your serial lines. Are they tightly twisted and away from high-power lines & esp inductors?


That's a possibility, I have been bench testing outside of the case so worth looking into, it worked fine on Sunday but didn't work last night after reconnecting everything.

It seems as though the arduino is shutting down the screen. 

Monitoring voltage, it drops as soon as the screen goes dead. It then comes back for 'phase 2', then drops again.

I'll upload a video of it if that helps?

Cheers,

Mike


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> That's a possibility, I have been bench testing outside of the case so worth looking into, it worked fine on Sunday but didn't work last night after reconnecting everything.
> 
> It seems as though the arduino is shutting down the screen.
> 
> ...


sure thing - the more info, the better


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> sure thing - the more info, the better


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


>


 got it. no noise. typical operation for incorrect number of cells setting. what is your # of cells you specified in the setup?

basically, if you specified, say, 10 cells in the setup, the charger will think your CV cutoff is 3.5v*10=35v. When it starts ramping up, if it hits 35v on the output, it will think it's done in CC step and will move to CV step (that's what type=2 means, we should probably spell it out on the screen - good point). If it then gets over 35v in the CV step and stays there, it will think it's done and say charge complete (that's what you see blinking before the 'battery not connected' message)

of course, another reason might be incorrect calibration resulting in charger thinking it sees higher voltage than it really is.

yet another reason might be that load somehow got disconnected and output voltage jumps as soon as the ramp starts. Do you get any amps registered at all on the screen (was hard to see on video - for some reason I could not 'pop it out' of the post...)


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

valerun said:


> got it. no noise. typical operation for incorrect number of cells setting. what is your # of cells you specified in the setup?
> 
> basically, if you specified, say, 10 cells in the setup, the charger will think your CV cutoff is 3.5v*10=35v. When it starts ramping up, if it hits 35v on the output, it will think it's done in CC step and will move to CV step (that's what type=2 means, we should probably spell it out on the screen - good point). If it then gets over 35v in the CV step and stays there, it will think it's done and say charge complete (that's what you see blinking before the 'battery not connected' message)
> 
> ...


Hi Valery,

That makes perfect sense. Hopefully it is something that simple!

I have it setup for 10 or 14 cells (cant remember off the top of my head).

It shows zero current in the video but I did manage it to show 10A through 0.1A on the previous DC source test before adding the inrush limiters.

I'll have a play tomorrow and see if I can get it to work.

Thanks again!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> That makes perfect sense. Hopefully it is something that simple!
> 
> ...


so the voltage goes up but current stays at zero? hm. sounds like load disconnect... or maybe it just happens so fast that it doesn't register...


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> ...I have a J1772 adapter I purchased from tusconev a couple years ago. Anyone know if special tools are required to remove the pins and solder new (longer) wires to them? How are they removed? Need more length to go from the gas fill to the charger under the hood, and I want it waterproof the entire length.


 Turns out this is easy. Just one screw inserted from the back holds the receptacle together. Remove it, pop the back half apart from the front half, clip the wires and remove the pins, de-solder the wires, feed new ones through and solder them.

Valery,

You said to connect Control board ground (GND) to the J1772 ground, and the pilot pin to the J1772 inlet pin on the Control board (iirc). The J1772 ground is also tied to the charger enclosure, so is connected to vehicle chassis ground if the charger enclosure is bolted to a conductive surface in the vehicle. Is this the way you do it on your cars?

No use is made of the proximity pin correct?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Turns out this is easy. Just one screw inserted from the back holds the receptacle together. Remove it, pop the back half apart from the front half, clip the wires and remove the pins, de-solder the wires, feed new ones through and solder them.
> 
> Valery,
> 
> ...


Yes, the charger's signal ground is linked to vehicle chassis. A few of our builders actually do away with the AC adapter altogether and connect the charger directly to the vehicle's 12V supply. You would just need to build the fan switch in that case that would only turn on when AC is present.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> That makes perfect sense. Hopefully it is something that simple!
> 
> ...


Any update? Want to make sure you get it working!


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Not yet, didn't get chance to take a look last night


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery, i have tested the charger and it works fine on the large resistive load, but when we connect a battery pack to it (28 cells) and configure it to run on 10 amps it blows the 13 amp fuse.

We have tried with the power configured to 1 amp and the duty cycle stays at 0%, if we set it to 2 amps it tries to draw 28amps from the ac supply, which blows the fuse again any ideas?

Many thanks!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> Hi Valery, i have tested the charger and it works fine on the large resistive load, but when we connect a battery pack to it (28 cells) and configure it to run on 10 amps it blows the 13 amp fuse.
> 
> We have tried with the power configured to 1 amp and the duty cycle stays at 0%, if we set it to 2 amps it tries to draw 28amps from the ac supply, which blows the fuse again any ideas?
> 
> Many thanks!


Remind me if you have PFC or non-PFC. In order for us to diagnose something like this, we need all adjacent parameters. Best way is to shoot a video of the troubled operation while pointing to the screen.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Pfc. Will try and get a video tomorrow.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Valery,

Video to follow soon, charger says it is drawing 0.1 amps, but our amp meter shows an 18amp draw on the mains side. Charger works for 1-2 minutes then cuts out...

Cheers


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTwUro2Czlc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

skooler said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTwUro2Czlc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


good video. where does that power go? into the heating elements? Into something else? What is the true output current? 

Immediate suspicion is of course the current sensor. Please check the wiring. Sometimes it's easy to connect that 3-pin connector in backwards...

The charger will not limit the duty if it doesn't see the sensor signal... You need to check the continuity of the signal from sensor's output to the pin on Arduino that reads the current. Refer to sensor datasheet for what to expect the sensor to produce - http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/0758/0758.pdf. Refer to the firmware to see which pin it should go to - http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V1...ger_2013_05_31_V11/charger_2013_05_31_V11.pde.


Thanks,
Valery


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

That test looks very familiar  I would say the charger is running wide open and the only limit is the resistance of the elements. As Val said first port of call would be the current sensor and its dc supply. Also look for a short between the sensor signal pin and ground.

Val , do you have schematics available for the new version? That current sensor looks interesting!


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## Mark Masterson (Aug 15, 2013)

skooler said:


>




Hi All !
I don't have this charger in person, but the "fault" seems to be obviuos...

I'm assuming U're using two heating elements wired in parallel, each of [email protected] thus 14.4 Ohm.
The charger's output Voltage is 266V DC so if U do the math it will show just over 18A to the load and since the output Voltage is just slightly higher than the mains Voltage, that only confirms that the inverter works perfectly fine...

The problem is wiring for the current sensor.

All the best
mark


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Also keep in mind that the resistance is calculated for the element at full working temperature. It could easily have 1/2 or 1/3 the resistance when cold, and thus would draw 2 or 3 times the current until the element heats up to where it glows.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Skooler - any updates?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I finally got the EMW charger installed in the car and 50A charge plug with 8 AWG power cord installed. Below are some results from the first test with 240VAC:

*First test of EMW charger with 240V

* *Low Current:*

*Settings: *Input I = 20A, output I = 20A
*
EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 120V
Iout = 19.3A
Duty Cycle: 27.8%
T = 39C (near end of test, ambient 33 C)

*EKM meter *(on AC to charger):
V = 236V
I = 22.8V (known that the EKM doesn’t read current accurately, but somehow calculates power correctly. Current seems roughly twice correct value) *Edit 9/5/13: I finally bothered to email EKM and ask about this. This is their explanation which makes sense:*


> Because there is no reference to Neutral with this meter, the current reading is deceiving. The meter reads current in both lines, which in your case is equal (balanced), and for purposes of calculating power and energy, uses half the voltage, approximately what it would be from Line to Neutral. So because it is totaling the current in both lines, the current reading is twice what one would expect when thinking about a 240V circuit. What we are metering is, in effect, two 120V circuits, so if you think about as 120V x Amps Line1 + 120V x Amps Line2 = 120V x (Amps Line1 + Amps Line2) the math works out.


 P = 2643W
Cos(theta) = 0.99 for lines 1 and 2

*TBS Gauge* (V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack)
V = 120.3V
I = 19.3A (good agreement with EMW)

*Comments:*
1) No noise from EMW other than fans
2) All readings very stable


*High Current:*

*Settings:* Input I = 40A, output I = 75A

*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 122V
59A < Iout < 62A
Duty Cycle: 34.2%
Initial T = 44C 
Final T = 59C (test < 10 minutes long, didn’t record run time or Ah in, dang!)

*EKM meter* 
V = 234V
64 < I < 70 (again, reads roughly twice correct value)
6.7kW < Power < 8kW
Cos(theta) = 1.00 for Lines 1 & 2

*TBS gauge* 
V = 121.8 (agrees with EMW)
56 < I < 64 (agrees with EMW, as well as can expect with ripple)

*Comments: *
1) No noise from EMW other than the fans.
2) Removed cover after this test and measured inductor temp’s with Extech IR meter. Buck was 81C, PFC was 49C.
3) Lot of ripple in high current test. Current and power continually varied on TBS and EKM meters, and EMW screen. Wish I had a scope to see the output current to the batteries.
4) Strange that duty cycles in the two tests are not very different.

Did another brief test after this with settings Iin = Iout = 40A.
Saw ripple as other higher current test, e.g. 37A < Iout < 40A according to EMW screen, TBS: 38 < Iout < 41. Duty cycle was 33.4%. Doesn't seem to change much!

Why so much ripple, and so little change in duty cycle?

Edit: I did another test at 20A and noticed that the EMW display at startup shows input voltage = 323V. Is this parameter supposed to be the VAC input?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I finally got the EMW charger installed in the car and 50A charge plug with 8 AWG power cord installed. Below are some results from the first test with 240VAC:
> 
> *First test of EMW charger with 240V
> 
> ...


Very good report, Tom! 

And looks like everything is working correctly!

The current fluctuations are due to duty cycle constantly 'dancing' around the optimal value. Due to finite resolution of the duty cycle in Arduino (well, any MCU for that matter), the charger can never operate exactly at the ideal duty so it constantly jumps from the integer above ideal and the integer below ideal (for 10-bit PWM, this would amount to 0.1% duty cycle jump). May not seem like much but the more efficient the design is and the stiffer the batteries are, the bigger the change in the output current with duty. It is not unusual to see 100A/% of duty when charger is connected to batteries in the middle of SOC range with short thick cables. 

This should also answer your question about why duty is not that different between two current settings. Think about the charger as a tea kettle (never used this analogy before - let's see how that works ;-). Duty cycle is a level of water in the kettle. Initially, you add water but nothing happens - the level just goes up - that's the duty & voltage rising. At some point, water starts spilling over - that's the current rising when duty / voltage reaches your battery voltage. After that, you can add just a bit of water but the flow increases dramatically - so a little duty change causes large change in current. Makes sense?

The output inductor seems to be getting hot - what's the airflow situation on it?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think what you are describing is the shift from discontinuous mode to continuous mode in the buck converter. In continuous mode, the current in the inductor never goes to zero, and the PWM must be very tightly and quickly controlled because each PWM cycle can add to the current, just like slapping a bicycle tire will keep increasing its speed. So dedicated PWM devices use cycle-by-cycle current monitoring of the inductor and provide feedback to trim the PWM to exactly what is needed to supply the output current. The energy in the inductor goes up by the square of the current so it can easily overshoot and you may get the oscillatory effect that you see, especially if you are using a processor to adjust the PWM duty cycle in fixed amounts. Also the resolution and sampling rate of the ADC converter that monitors the current, and the time constant of filter components, may introduce delay in correction and produce instability.

I don't understand the principles thoroughly, as they are highly mathematical as well as involve magnetics, which are not my strong points. I tried to find some articles about continuous conduction mode and they are mostly very technical and beyond simple understanding, but they may be useful:
http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen5807/course_material/CPM/Ridley_1991.pdf
http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen5807/course_material/sampled/sun-dcm2.pdf
http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~kushnero/temp/guamicuk.pdf

The following application note from TI seems to be more understandable, and compares continuous and discontinuous modes.
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva057/slva057.pdf

Something else to consider is the reduction of inductance as current increases, and eventual saturation, at which point the current through the series inductor increases greatly. This may also explain some of the heating observed in the inductors. It could be either conductive losses due to resistance (which also increases with temperature), or core losses which occur mostly at higher frequencies and fast switching rates, or a combination.

Switching converters are based on rather simple fundamentals of inductance and energy storage and transfer, but real world designs are non-trivial and there are many factors involved to achieve stability and efficiency.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I see...when output voltage exceeds battery pack V there is a surge of current, so even a small change in duty cycle results in a relatively large change in current. So I should expect up to 10A change in output current per 0.1% change in duty cycle? But then why is everything stable at settings of 20A and below?

Charging this morning at settings Iin = Iout = 30A

*EMW readings*:
Vout = 121V
28.5 < Iout < 30.5
Ti = 21C, after ~10 min T steady at 31C
Duty cycle: 33.1% steady

*TBS gauge:*
26.9 < I < 30.3
V = 121.3

EKM meter:
V = 237.8V
31.1 < I < 35.0
3823W < P < 4110W
Cos (theta) = 1.00 for L1 and L2

This was for about the first 20 minutes or so. Then I checked after about 35 minutes and everything was much more steady! Duty cycle was steady at 33.2%, Iout was 29.3 to 29.5A, input current and power (EKM meter) were steady at 34.0A and 3981W. Checked again after about 45 minutes and things were fluctuating about the same again. 

Regarding output inductor: The fans are running at good speed, but I don't feel that much air flow out the back of the charger, probably due to impedance by the heat sink. This is the one I rewound to 34 turns, 14 strands of #18 wire. I used about 1 lb of wire total, which I think is about the same as the original 48 turn, 6 strands each of #16 wire, so thought it should handle about the same power density. Has me worried that it may melt the Acetal holding it.

Edit: Stopped charging at 47.2 Ah and 96 minutes run time. Pulled cover and measured inductor temps at about 197F on buck 97F on PFC. But these readings seem to be a bit high since I could hold my finger on the PFC and it barely felt warm, and I could hold my finger on the buck for about 10 seconds before it became uncomfortable. There is always the problem of emissivity with IR measurements...Acetal looks fine, not even warm to the touch.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Something else to consider is the reduction of inductance as current increases, and eventual saturation, at which point the current through the series inductor increases greatly. This may also explain some of the heating observed in the inductors. It could be either conductive losses due to resistance (which also increases with temperature), or core losses which occur mostly at higher frequencies and fast switching rates, or a combination.
> 
> Switching converters are based on rather simple fundamentals of inductance and energy storage and transfer, but real world designs are non-trivial and there are many factors involved to achieve stability and efficiency.


True in principle but not really applicable here. In our application, the core is designed to be partially saturated at max output. We use the material that has soft saturation curve which means that current overshoots due to saturation are minimized. This setup is sometimes called a 'swinging core'. Among other benefits, this allows us to reduce current ripple at low output current, as well (as the inductance goes UP with reduction in current). This is why we don't use ferrites for our cores - they saturate much quicker and sharper.

The heating in the inductors has dual source, yes. Wire and core. Wire losses are less problematic as they are on surface and can be effectively cooled. Also, wire insulation is generally good to 200C. Core is a much bigger thermal headache. Heating is internal so it takes some time for that heat to get out. Secondly, the core aging accelerates significantly above ~100-120C for powder iron cores. 

Core loss is generally proportional to AC flux swing (dB) to the power of 2-3 (depending on core material) and to frequency (f) to the power of 1-1.5 (depending on core material). A typical curve might be 
P_loss = a * dB^2 * f^1.3

Thing to note here is that dB is proportional to the voltage difference on the inductor (dV) and inverse to inductance (L) and frequency (f):
dB = b * dV / (L * f)
dV is the difference between the input and output voltage of the inductor - in the case of our chargers, this is a difference between PFC stage output (~380V) and your battery voltage (120V).

So in reality, core loss generally reduces with frequency, not increases - in our example:
P_loss = c * dV^2 * L^-2 * f^-0.7
(note negative power of f)

Further complication is inductor saturation which decreases L with current. This increases L term in the above equation. 

Now, looking at the P_loss equation, you see that the lower the battery voltage, the higher the loss will be - quadratically. Higher current will drive the core deeper into saturation so the L will go down and further increase the loss. You can offset by increasing the frequency but then your IGBTs are heating up more so you can practically get to only ~20kHz (from the 14kHz default). 

So you can see the thermal management is a bit complex ;-) All this was taken into account in our inductor design so provided adequate airflow, you should be fine. 

What is the power ratings for your fans?

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Edit: Stopped charging at 47.2 Ah and 96 minutes run time. Pulled cover and measured inductor temps at about 197F on buck 97F on PFC. But these readings seem to be a bit high since I could hold my finger on the PFC and it barely felt warm, and I could hold my finger on the buck for about 10 seconds before it became uncomfortable. There is always the problem of emissivity with IR measurements...Acetal looks fine, not even warm to the touch.


you probably felt wire temp, not the core temp and the IR saw mostly core radiation. So your core heats up much more than the wire. See my question re cooling power


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> ...Now, looking at the P_loss equation, you see that the lower the battery voltage, the higher the loss will be - quadratically. Higher current will drive the core deeper into saturation so the L will go down and further increase the loss...


 Another disadvantage of a low voltage pack.



> What is the power ratings for your fans?
> 
> V


 I purchased them from you with the charger enclosure. Iirc they are 150 cfm?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Another disadvantage of a low voltage pack.
> 
> I purchased them from you with the charger enclosure. Iirc they are 150 cfm?


ah, ok ;-) then they should be fine. You may try to increase the frequency of the buck stage. The variable you're looking for is called 'period' - it should be set to 70 in the default version of the code - just try setting it to 60 or 50. This variable defines switching period in microseconds.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> ah, ok ;-) then they should be fine. You may try to increase the frequency of the buck stage. The variable you're looking for is called 'period' - it should be set to 70 in the default version of the code - just try setting it to 60 or 50. This variable defines switching period in microseconds.


 I found the _period_ variable in the code and it is set to 70. I may try 60, but first I want to try a 75A (output) run with the cover off so I can monitor core temperature with the IR meter. I'm worried about overheating the core, since I hit 80 C after those two short runs.

Another issue: I tried using the charger with an EVSE today and got an error: _Venting required_. I don't get this error with the same EVSE if I use the standard little diode/two resistor circuit between EVSE pilot and ground, rather than connecting EVSE pilot and ground to the J1772 and GND pins on the connector below the Arduino on the EMW charger.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I ran a higher current test:

*Settings:*
Input current: 47A
Output current: 80A

Initial heat sink temp = ambient temp = 30C

Initially the output current settled in the range: 70.1A < Iout < 76.4A
Output voltage was 122V.
After 2 minutes run time the output inductor core was at 77C. After 3 minutes run time: 87C. After 5 minutes run time 92C. Terminated charging at that point. 

After about 3 minutes the output current had fallen to the low 60's. The heat sink temperature was 48C at that point, 50C at 4 and 5 minutes. Current de-rating should start at 55C heat sink temp since I have un-commented _#define MCC100A_, but it seems to be using the standard 47C de-rating.

The inrush limiting resistors were at 138C after 5 minutes.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

More related to the EVSE giving _ERROR, venting required_ message when the EMW is connected:
According to this line of code in the 2012_09_01_V09_3 software the J1772 pilot is connected through a diode and 1.3k resistor to ground:


> const int pin_J1772=7; // J1772 pilot input. 1.3k is hardwired on V14+ pcbs so J1772 will power on on connect


 However, the schematic shows a 3.3k. I don't see any reference to a 1.3k resistor on the Control Board in the Build Notes. The only 3.3k resistor I see on the Control Board is R37 in step 1f which it says is optional, and doesn't explain why. Iirc, I left this off since it was optional. 


The standard J1772 interface is through a diode and 2.74k resistor to ground, with a 1.3k resistor and switch in parallel with the 2.74k. The EVSE shows a vehicle connected with the switch open, and power is tuned on in the EVSE when the switch is closed. Not sure why the EMW schematic shows 3.3k.

According to the J1772 spec _venting required_ is signaled with a 270 Ohm resistance, so I don't see why am getting that.

Edit: Looking at the pcb file, it appears that the J1772 pin on the Control Board is connected through D4 to R36 and C50 (10 nF). According to the V09 Build Notes step 1b R36 is 1k.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> More related to the EVSE giving _ERROR, venting required_ message when the EMW is connected:
> According to this line of code in the 2012_09_01_V09_3 software the J1772 pilot is connected through a diode and 1.3k resistor to ground:
> However, the schematic shows a 3.3k. I don't see any reference to a 1.3k resistor on the Control Board in the Build Notes. The only 3.3k resistor I see on the Control Board is R37 in step 1f which it says is optional, and doesn't explain why. Iirc, I left this off since it was optional.
> 
> ...


Just checked the schematics - you're absolutely right - we list the wrong value - it should read 1k instead of 3.3k. On the PCB layout file, it says 1k which is the correct value. 

That 1k would have the same effect as 2.7k and 1.3k in parallel.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I ran a higher current test:
> 
> *Settings:*
> Input current: 47A
> ...


regarding output current falling & derating. Sometime in May, we have changed the derating logic to start earlier for 100A version. The reason is that it takes some 'effort' for heat to travel from the point of generation (in this case output IGBT) to the point of measurement in the middle of sink. That creates a difference between measured and actual temperature. The faster heat production, the bigger the difference. Since the temperature you care about is actually the semiconductor junction, you need to take that dynamic difference into account. We have [approximately] calculated and taken into account that difference and for 70A 12kW version it translates to derating from 55C or so. For 100A version - a bit lower. This could probably be relaxed but we wanted to make sure we are conservative in our default settings so the likelihood of frying the components is very low.

I'd suggest trying lower switching frequency. If that does not help, adding a few turns to your inductor (even if that means you have to use fewer strands - always easier to cool the wire than the core).


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> regarding output current falling & derating. Sometime in May, we have changed the derating logic to start earlier for 100A version. The reason is that it takes some 'effort' for heat to travel from the point of generation (in this case output IGBT) to the point of measurement in the middle of sink. That creates a difference between measured and actual temperature. The faster heat production, the bigger the difference. Since the temperature you care about is actually the semiconductor junction, you need to take that dynamic difference into account. We have [approximately] calculated and taken into account that difference and for 70A 12kW version it translates to derating from 55C or so. For 100A version - a bit lower. This could probably be relaxed but we wanted to make sure we are conservative in our default settings so the likelihood of frying the components is very low.
> 
> I'd suggest trying lower switching frequency. If that does not help, adding a few turns to your inductor (even if that means you have to use fewer strands - always easier to cool the wire than the core).


 I tried charging at Iout = Iin = 35A this morning. Initial heat sink temperature = ambient = 23C. Temperature of inductor core:
3 min, 44C
11 min, 84C
18 min, 88C
25 min, 98C
Terminated charging at 25 minutes. Heat sink temp was 36 C.
Input AC power was 4620W < P < 4700W
output current: 
EMW: 33.4A < Io < 35.1A
TBS: 31.2A < Io < 34.8A
Vout: 121V
So Pout ~ 4070 W

Looks like I will have to pull the output inductor and rewind it to closer to the original 48 turns rather than the 34 turns I re-wound it to in order to be able to run higher output currents, and live with the max output current the higher number of turns permits. As it is now, this is more like a 3kW charger for a nominal 115V pack rather than a 12kW charger. Rewinding looks the most promising since dB goes as L^ -2. Maybe I will be able to get around 60% more power if I rewind the inductor to 48 turns. If so, that would put max output power at around 5kW for my pack V. I will test higher frequency, but since dB goes at f^ -0.7, I don't expect to gain much that way. 

Based on this, I would say without significantly more cooling of the output inductor this charger is limited to much lower than rated output power when used on a lower voltage pack due to core loss in the output inductor that Valery outlined a few posts back.

Valery, how many turns were on the output coil in the charger used in this test?
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=338506&postcount=835
Did you measure core temperature after 30, 60 minutes?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

More test results:
1) Test with charger cover removed and 150 cfm 4.75"x4.75" fan mounted directly over the output inductor. Same settings as previous test, Iout = Iin = 35. At 14 minutes run time core temp was 77C versus 84C w/o fan. Ambient temp had increased from 23C during first test, to about 30C during this test, so adding this about 7C offset, maybe ran cooler by 14C.

2) Decreased _period_ to 55, and removed 150 cfm fan. Same settings as prior test. Core temp was 96C at 14 minutes run time versus 86C in test with _period_ = 70. Initial heat sink and core temps were 30C and 34C respectively. Ambient was about 34C (ambient rises fast in a metal garage once the sun comes up). If we give the benefit of the doubt and subtract the difference in ambient temps, 11C, then core temp was similar to what it was with _period_ = 70. I think I can at least say it wasn't a significant improvement.

I would sure like to know what number of turns, number of strands, and wire size you used, as well as max core temp and run time, for those two 100A tests you posted Valery.


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

Hi Valery,

Have you thought about using a pack with higher voltage than the mains peak and then ditch the buck stage, only using the active PFC stage? Just a very quick thought, but this would practically halve the power electronic cost & size and reduce losses if done right. And a 350V pack would still be within reason for most controllers using 600V IGBTs.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> More test results:
> 1) Test with charger cover removed and 150 cfm 4.75"x4.75" fan mounted directly over the output inductor. Same settings as previous test, Iout = Iin = 35. At 14 minutes run time core temp was 77C versus 84C w/o fan. Ambient temp had increased from 23C during first test, to about 30C during this test, so adding this about 7C offset, maybe ran cooler by 14C.
> 
> 2) Decreased _period_ to 55, and removed 150 cfm fan. Same settings as prior test. Core temp was 96C at 14 minutes run time versus 86C in test with _period_ = 70. Initial heat sink and core temps were 30C and 34C respectively. Ambient was about 34C (ambient rises fast in a metal garage once the sun comes up). If we give the benefit of the doubt and subtract the difference in ambient temps, 11C, then core temp was similar to what it was with _period_ = 70. I think I can at least say it wasn't a significant improvement.
> ...


Hi Tom - core heating up this much at 35A output is abnormal and most likely means that the core is starting to fail due to overheating. You need a new core. What I suggest we do is to send you a spare inductor as a free replacement. We can run it on the test rig here going into the 100V pack and post a video.

Let me know.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Have you thought about using a pack with higher voltage than the mains peak and then ditch the buck stage, only using the active PFC stage? Just a very quick thought, but this would practically halve the power electronic cost & size and reduce losses if done right. And a 350V pack would still be within reason for most controllers using 600V IGBTs.


Yes, you're spot on. This is exactly what we are doing with our 25kW units that you see on some of our videos on YouTube. Larger T520 core and single-stage based on a 600A IGBT.

One potential concern there is high current ripple (120Hz). Unavoidable if you want to maintain good PF. Capacitor banks (to smooth the output 120Hz ripple current) are pretty useless at this power level and a stiff load like LiFePo4 batteries. However, most people I talked to (including battery supplier) think that 120Hz ripple should not hurt LiFePo4. But there is no real testing around that.

The ideal solution here is, of course, 3-phase. Running 100A 3-phase 240V supply on 3 of such PFCdirect stages gets us to 70kW+ and results in a constant DC power delivery to the battery due to the properties of 3-phase AC. We will be testing this soon in our new warehouse where we finally got a proper 3-phase hookup


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Tom - core heating up this much at 35A output is abnormal and most likely means that the core is starting to fail due to overheating. You need a new core. What I suggest we do is to send you a spare inductor as a free replacement. We can run it on the test rig here going into the 100V pack and post a video.
> 
> Let me know.
> 
> ...


Send it!!!


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> The ideal solution here is, of course, 3-phase. Running 100A 3-phase 240V supply on 3 of such PFCdirect stages gets us to 70kW+ and results in a constant DC power delivery to the battery due to the properties of 3-phase AC. We will be testing this soon in our new warehouse where we finally got a proper 3-phase hookup


This is exactly what we are thinking about for our conversions. Around here, the largest normal 1-phase socket is 16A, but 3-phase 3x16A supply is pretty common (even in residential areas) so the 11 kW charger would consist of three 3.6 kW chargers. The same charger would work for 1-phase operation too with only one section in use, with more ripple of course. I agree with you that the ripple _shouldn't_ be a problem for the batteries. Li-ion has been studied with microcycling and it's not a problem. And this case isn't even about cycling as the direction is not reversed.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Just checked the schematics - you're absolutely right - we list the wrong value - it should read 1k instead of 3.3k. On the PCB layout file, it says 1k which is the correct value.
> 
> That 1k would have the same effect as 2.7k and 1.3k in parallel.


 I checked wiring connections and R36 (the resistor in series with the diode from the J1772 pin). Wiring is connected correctly with J1772 pilot wire to J1772 pin on the control board and J1772 ground wire to GND pin on the control board, and R36 is 977 Ohm. Don't know why I am getting an _Error: Venting required_ message from the EVSE.


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> This is exactly what we are doing with our 25kW units that you see on some of our videos on YouTube. Larger T520 core and single-stage based on a 600A IGBT.


One question. Do you have a specific reason for using a 600A semiconductor here? Have you seen problems with tighter tolerances with your earlier designs? I think a 150A IGBT (with a 1ms peak rating of 300A at 80deg C) would do the trick, in theory, with a lot of safety margin. 

(600A * 320V = 192 kW )

We are using 150A IGBTs in our inverter and have measured up to at least 130A _continuous DC bus_ current and everything is working great. Not a lot of leeway here! IGBTs are quite robust I guess with more conservative current ratings than MOSFETs.

Thanks for your commitment in open design scene.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*J1772 pilot not working*

To Valery.



tomofreno said:


> I checked wiring connections and R36 (the resistor in series with the diode from the J1772 pin). Wiring is connected correctly with J1772 pilot wire to J1772 pin on the control board and J1772 ground wire to GND pin on the control board, and R36 is 977 Ohm. Don't know why I am getting an _Error: Venting required_ message from the EVSE.


1) I have a similar problem with J1772 pilot connection, EVSE just does not start at all. I tried to measure the resistance between the ground pin and 1772 pin and got 1.38 MΩ. If I reverse the Ohmmeter leads, it reads infinite resistance (assuming it is correct function of the diode). Shouldn't I get ~1kΩ between 1772 pin and ground pin?

I guess it might be simpler to just build standalone J1772 diode+switch+2.7k+1.3k resistors box as Tom did.

2) Another question: I discovered that my chassis/heatsink is not connected to any of the boards' ground. Where is the proper physical connection location? Does it matter?

Thanks, George


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I checked wiring connections and R36 (the resistor in series with the diode from the J1772 pin). Wiring is connected correctly with J1772 pilot wire to J1772 pin on the control board and J1772 ground wire to GND pin on the control board, and R36 is 977 Ohm. Don't know why I am getting an _Error: Venting required_ message from the EVSE.


could you pls send me a copy of your firmware?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> To Valery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi George - could you pls send a photo of your control board with J1772 circuitry visible?

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> One question. Do you have a specific reason for using a 600A semiconductor here? Have you seen problems with tighter tolerances with your earlier designs? I think a 150A IGBT (with a 1ms peak rating of 300A at 80deg C) would do the trick, in theory, with a lot of safety margin.
> 
> (600A * 320V = 192 kW )
> 
> ...


300A device could work, yes. The reason we use 600A is two-fold:
1. We had easier access to 600A devices ;-)
2. We are hoping to utilize same design for 50kW single-phase system. 

At 50kW, we expect to see peak currents of over 400A (~300A 'average peak' of 120Hz line current + ~30-40% high-frequency ripple. 

Part of this is also a choice of switching frequency - we are trying to stay at a reasonably high frequency (18-22kHz) to reduce audible noise during charge (much more annoying than controller noise during motion) and make it easier on the inductors (the most stressed element in this design at the moment).

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Valery


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

50kw, crazy  ..at least to me considering I have 240v 100 amp service. I'd imagine a 19.2kwh pack of 100 60Ah CALB CA cells would probably not be too happy swallowing 50kw if I did it too often. Then again I'm a little nervous about even 1C if it was a daily event. I also imagine the housemates reaction to "hey, I know it's 95 degrees outside but I'm going to turn off the AC for a little bit while I pull 24kw, you're cool with that, right?"


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

> at least to me considering I have 240v 100 amp service.


At those power levels, three-phase starts making more sense. It's possible with one phase, but these power levels are on the brink of _requiring_ paralleled components anyway (instead of a single huge IGBT brick and inductor), and in that case, three units work better (with less ripple) when ran off a 3-phase supply than three paralleled units from a 1-phase supply.



> I'd imagine a 19.2kwh pack of 100 60Ah CALB CA cells would probably not be too happy swallowing 50kw if I did it too often.


I have seen no proof up to date that 2.6C quick charging would cause any ill effects. It is possible, but not shown. I'm pretty optimistic on this.



> Then again I'm a little nervous about even 1C if it was a daily event.


This is a very typical charging rate and definitely not a problem.


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm also thinking about issues with cabling and interconnects in the full series because that is a sustained rate far beyond what I would be able to pull from the pack when driving, pushing that much back in and I think I'd consider larger cables to keep the resistance down to keep the efficiency up. 150+ amps through 2/0 cable might not be too bad but the terminal connections will need some good attention too. Getting away with 10C (600 amps in my case) is pretty easy for 15 seconds but a long chunk of high amperage and I can't help to think I'll be getting something warm. Regarding high sustained C rates, I'm reminded of the video of Jack discharging CALB SE cells at 4C and having them get beyond the temperature I'm comfortable having my cells at when they were roughly at 25% SOC and venting shortly after. Granted CALB CA cells should be fine with 3C in the short term but overall cycle life hasn't been tested with charging at a high rate to full for plenty of cycles with prismatic cells. I'm not trying to discourage anyone but rather to watch terminal temperatures carefully when doing this to make sure things are in check for at least the first few times when pulling them full from a lower SOC. If someone just drove down to say 20% SOC with a smallish pack, charged up at a high rate and brought it back to 20% SOC and charged again I'd imagine you'd be getting close to the thermal limits. In the case of the Nissan Leaf it is an issue as the pack goes into thermal cutback(enough to be limited to little more power than needed for highway cruising) on a hot day after two or three fast charges.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> To Valery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 George, you can see the diode, R36 resistor and 10nF cap on the Control board right above the 7 pin connector with the J1772 pin with the board mounted in the charger. You might check the resistor with a DVM - maybe a poor solder joint? You should measure around 1kOhm since there should just be the diode in series with the parallel connection of the cap and R36 between the J1772 pin and the GND pin (5th and 3rd pins on the connector from the end by the Arduino chip). 

I made up the separate box for my PFC30 charger. I can swap out chargers quickly with Anderson connectors on both input and output, and swapping bms cables (PFC30 uses the minibms N.O. relay, EMW uses the N.C.). I have a switch on the box to disconnect the pilot line to it when using the EMW charger. My tests of the J1772 with the EMW were done with this box completely disconnected though.

If you connect the J1772 ground to the GND pin on the 7 pin connector on the control board your charger enclosure will be connected to the charger circuit ground, since the J1772 main power cord has a ground lead which is connected to your charger enclosure.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> could you pls send me a copy of your firmware?


 Will do. I went through it looking for lines of code related to J1772 and this is what I found at different places in the code:

const int pin_J1772=7; // J1772 pilot input. 1.3k is hardwired on V14+ pcbs so J1772 will power on on connect


// digital inputs
pinMode(pin_pwrCtrlButton, INPUT);
pinMode(pin_pwrCtrl2Button, INPUT);
pinMode(pin_J1772, INPUT);


void loop() { 
// ---------------real loop()
float pwr;
int J1772_dur;
mainsV=read_mV();
outV=readV();


// check J1772
J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);
if(J1772_dur>50) { // noise control. also, deals with the case when no J1772 signal present at all
absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6A input


I checked, and measured 977 Ohms from pin D7 on the Arduino to the GND pin on the 7 pin connector.
Edit: Something strange: Measuring resistance just across the diode I get 0.796MOhm in one polarity, indefinitely high in the other (diode checker shows the diode is ok, 0.642V in forward direction), and when I measure from Arduino pin D7 to the GND pin on the 7 pin connector I measure 977 Ohm with either polarity. Pin D7 is not on the control board schematic so I don't know if anything else is connected to it.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> could you pls send me a copy of your firmware?


Sent you an email with the code. Also sent you emails regarding the output inductor.


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



valerun said:


> Hi George - could you pls send a photo of your control board with J1772 circuitry visible?
> 
> Thanks,
> Valery


Here it is.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> Here it is.


 Looks like mine. On J1772 Wikipedia says 1.3k in parallel with the 2.74k pulls the 12V down to 6V and trips the relay to connect power, and 270 Ohm in parallel pulls it down to 3V signaling that venting is required. But mine is acting like anything less than 6V signals venting is required. I may test that by temporarily adding a resistor in parallel with the 1.3k in my little box to pull the signal down to 5V (about what it is with 977 Ohm in parallel with the 2.74k). Easier than messing with the EMW control board.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



tomofreno said:


> Looks like mine. On J1772 Wikipedia says 1.3k in parallel with the 2.74k pulls the 12V down to 6V and trips the relay to connect power, and 270 Ohm in parallel pulls it down to 3V signaling that venting is required. But mine is acting like anything less than 6V signals venting is required. I may test that by temporarily adding a resistor in parallel with the 1.3k in my little box to pull the signal down to 5V (about what it is with 977 Ohm in parallel with the 2.74k). Easier than messing with the EMW control board.


 Did this test, 3930 Ohm in parallel with the 1.3k, measured 975 Ohm. Not the problem. Relay in the EVSE still trips and says "Charging", when I switch in this resistance as Wikipedia says it should.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



tomofreno said:


> Did this test, 3930 Ohm in parallel with the 1.3k, measured 975 Ohm. Not the problem. Relay in the EVSE still trips and says "Charging", when I switch in this resistance as Wikipedia says it should.


Hello Tom,

I am not sure I fully understand what you wrote. 

Are you saying that adding 3.9kOhm in parallel to 1.3kOhm resolved your problem? That contractor in EVSE is now clamping as it suppose to and you can now charge without an issue? Please confirm my understanding.

I agree that this route is easier that trying to figure out the problem with EMW charger control board. I already build the switch with soldered-on resistors and diode. 

I am ME, not EE, but am still puzzled why my diode shows open circuit in one direction, but ~3MOhm in the opposite, measured with regular Fluke DMM set for Ohms. What am I missing?


----------



## pas940 (Aug 21, 2013)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> Hello Tom,
> 
> I am ME, not EE, but am still puzzled why my diode shows open circuit in one direction, but ~3MOhm in the opposite, measured with regular Fluke DMM set for Ohms. What am I missing?


The meter can't read through a diode as the voltage used to test is too low to forward bias the diode, this is why they have a diode test range
If you try the diode test it displays the volt drop across the diode, not sure what you'll get with a series resistance, maybe just the volt drop still as I'd think the current would be very low


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> Hello Tom,
> 
> I am not sure I fully understand what you wrote.
> 
> ...


 Sorry it wasn't clear. I just added 3.9kOhm in parallel with the 1.3kOhm resistor in the box to give about the same 977 Ohm resistance in parallel with the 2.74kOhm resistor as we have on the EMW control board. I then plugged in the J1772 from the EVSE to the car, no charger installed, just testing if this resistance would operate the EVSE. The EVSE worked fine with this resistance. This is the same 977 Ohm resistance (nominal 1kOhm resistor) I have in parallel with the 2.74kOhm resistor in the EMW control board, so this is not the reason the EMW is causing the EVSE to post that venting is required. Must be some other problem. I really don't see why it is causing the EVSE to give this message.

A schematic of the circuit that is in the box is here:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/j1772-vehicle-connector-52823.html
Again, for the test I just added 3.9kOhm in parallel with the 1.3kOhm so the box would have the same resistance in parallel with the 2.74kOhm resistor as I have on the EMW control board.

Yes, the easiest route for now is to just make up a box like this, connect it to the J1772 ground and pilot wires, and have no connection of these wires to the EMW charger itself. When you plug in the EVSE to the car with only the 2.74kOhm in the circuit with the diode the EVSE will indicate that a vehicle is connected, when you turn on the switch adding the 1.3kOhm in parallel to the 2.74kOhm the relay in the EVSE will turn on connecting AC power your charger and the EVSE will state something like "Charging". 

What you don't have this way is the EMW charger communicating with the EVSE to limit power to what is available from the EVSE, so you will have to do that yourself by setting power level with the input/output current settings for the EMW when it first powers up. Valery is a busy guy, but I'm sure he will get around to solving this before too long.


----------



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> Hello Tom,
> 
> I am not sure I fully understand what you wrote.
> 
> ...


The beauty of the internet is that you don't have to be an EE or ME , all you have to be is a GE (Google Engineer  ).
A good GE will open a web browser on the Google page and type "how a diode works" 

I am proud to be a GE 

P.S. the results you got when measuring a diode on ohm scale are ok, that's how you measure a diode when you don't have the diode scale.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



pas940 said:


> The meter can't read through a diode as the voltage used to test is too low to forward bias the diode, this is why they have a diode test range
> If you try the diode test it displays the volt drop across the diode, not sure what you'll get with a series resistance, maybe just the volt drop still as I'd think the current would be very low


Thanks, I knew there is something I am missing.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



tomofreno said:


> Sorry it wasn't clear. I just added 3.9kOhm in parallel with the 1.3kOhm resistor in the box to give about the same 977 Ohm resistance in parallel with the 2.74kOhm resistor as we have on the EMW control board. I then plugged in the J1772 from the EVSE to the car, no charger installed, just testing if this resistance would operate the EVSE. The EVSE worked fine with this resistance. This is the same 977 Ohm resistance (nominal 1kOhm resistor) I have in parallel with the 2.74kOhm resistor in the EMW control board, so this is not the reason the EMW is causing the EVSE to post that venting is required. Must be some other problem. I really don't see why it is causing the EVSE to give this message.
> 
> A schematic of the circuit that is in the box is here:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/j1772-vehicle-connector-52823.html
> ...


Hi Tom - just so I understand - you have both 2.74 AND 1k resistors on EMW board?

Just ~1k is required to move EVSE into state 'C' (power requested). 

Also, is there any chance that your inlet has some resistance already installed between pilot and ground?

V


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



valerun said:


> Hi Tom - just so I understand - you have both 2.74 AND 1k resistors on EMW board?
> 
> Just ~1k is required to move EVSE into state 'C' (power requested).
> 
> ...


No. I was referring to the small box I have with the standard circuit in it, as shown in the E. Tischer drawing I gave a link to. I made this for use with the PFC30 charger, and just used it to test if 977 Ohm rather than 882 Ohm (1.3k in parallel with 2.74k) would cause the EVSE to give the "venting required" message (out of desperation). It didn't. It turned on power and said "Charging".

I just have the diode, in series with a parallel connection of the nominal 1kOhm (977 Ohm actual) resistor and a capacitor on the EMW control board, same as in George's photo - and same as in the schematic, except the schematic shows 3.3k.

No I don't think have any other resistance in the circuit. I pulled the J1772 connector apart and soldered new longer wires onto it so I could mount it in my gas fill door, so I know there are no other resistors there. The pilot and ground wires to the front of the car are #16 AWG.

According to Wikipedia, "venting required" is triggered by using a 270 Ohm in parallel with the 2.74k, resulting in 3V (rather than the 6V you get with the 1.3k in parallel), so I don't see why I am getting this signal. Has nothing to do with the duty cycle of the square wave, so should not be dependent on any code. I don't get it.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



tomofreno said:


> No. I was referring to the small box I have with the standard circuit in it, as shown in the E. Tischer drawing I gave a link to. I made this for use with the PFC30 charger, and just used it to test if 977 Ohm rather than 882 Ohm (1.3k in parallel with 2.74k) would cause the EVSE to give the "venting required" message (out of desperation). It didn't. It turned on power and said "Charging".
> 
> I just have the diode, in series with a parallel connection of the nominal 1kOhm (977 Ohm actual) resistor and a capacitor on the EMW control board, same as in George's photo - and same as in the schematic, except the schematic shows 3.3k.
> 
> ...


super weird. can you look at the pilot signal with the scope when you connect the charger?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



valerun said:


> super weird. can you look at the pilot signal with the scope when you connect the charger?


 Maybe it was just a glitch. I think I'll try another EVSE after I get the new inductor from you.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*

George, you said your charger doesn't work with an EVSE. In what way? What is it doing?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



tomofreno said:


> George, you said your charger doesn't work with an EVSE. In what way? What is it doing?


It did not start charging, no action.

I will not be able to do more testing until much later. Will let you know.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



george7g said:


> It did not start charging, no action.
> 
> I will not be able to do more testing until much later. Will let you know.


 Sounds like the EOC pin was not connected to the BMS pin? I used the N.C. relay on the minibms main board to connect these and that worked.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

guys - quick question. What is the best packing approach you saw for electronic kits? We are trying to improve the way we deliver the kits - both for the charger and our new EVSE product. 

cost is important (both materials and labor) as we try to keep our pricing at same level while adding features.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> guys - quick question. What is the best packing approach you saw for electronic kits? We are trying to improve the way we deliver the kits - both for the charger and our new EVSE product.
> 
> cost is important (both materials and labor) as we try to keep our pricing at same level while adding features.


Not sure what you are looking for here...packaging materials, organization of the packaged parts...
From my experience with the EMW charger, it would be nice if the kit were organized by sub units, e.g. in the case of the charger that would be Control Board, Driver Board, Power board, off- board components...Parts for each of these subunits would be packaged separately within the main shipping box, and have the section of the BOM detailing parts of that sub unit included with them. That way, you open up the sub unit package, which has the revision number on it, check parts against the included BOM of the same rev for that sub unit, then proceed with assembly. You would see immediately if you are missing parts, so you can get them on order, and you wouldn't have to hunt through as many parts looking for the one you need during assembly. 

I recommend all packaging be made of easily recyclable materials. In order to reduce paper use you could just include a list of links in the kit for the sub unit BOMs on line.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Tom. What about packing the actual parts within the sub unit?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

When I have put kits together for PCB assembly, I have printed out the BOM in a label format, and then I taped the parts to each label. This works well for SMT components especially. Using standard 1"x2.5" label format, you can put 30 parts on one page. The company I used to build my boards used my BOM and created these labels:


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> When I have put kits together for PCB assembly, I have printed out the BOM in a label format, and then I taped the parts to each label. This works well for SMT components especially. Using standard 1"x2.5" label format, you can put 30 parts on one page. The company I used to build my boards used my BOM and created these labels:


that's a great idea, Paul! Thanks.

What would you place the label with parts on?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I just used ordinary heavy weight printer paper, but it could be taped to a piece of cardboard for easier handling. The SMT parts were mostly cut tape, but you can also directly tape leaded parts to the label. For some loose parts, I use small plastic ziplock bags that are also sometimes used for pills. I got some pretty cheap at the dollar store. I just folded the cut label and put it in the bag, so it is reusable.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Thanks Tom. What about packing the actual parts within the sub unit?


I don't know much about packaging. Maybe attach labels like Paul's to biodegradable bags from these folks:
http://www.recycledpackaging.com/


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772 pilot not working*



tomofreno said:


> Sounds like the EOC pin was not connected to the BMS pin? I used the N.C. relay on the minibms main board to connect these and that worked.


I think the problem was that my chassis ground was not connected to Ctrl Bd ground. When I connected, I accidentally fried some components because my ground lead striked over the live battery contact. 

Will have to fix that issue first, when I have time.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Tom - core heating up this much at 35A output is abnormal and most likely means that the core is starting to fail due to overheating. You need a new core. What I suggest we do is to send you a spare inductor as a free replacement. We can run it on the test rig here going into the 100V pack and post a video.
> 
> Let me know.
> 
> ...


 Any progress on this?


----------



## TexasCotton (Sep 18, 2008)

Glad I watched youtube on this diy charger............
After self assembly and support and test. You may still be left needing a charger


----------



## zipper1 (Mar 10, 2013)

Is anyone here selling or building one ? Please reply ASAP.
In Kind,
Zipper


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

I think there are a lot of us currently building one.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

TexasCotton said:


> Glad I watched youtube on this diy charger............
> After self assembly and support and test. You may still be left needing a charger


Of course. As stated on the first page of the build manual, as well. This is not a simple project. There is a reason for a $1,000 difference between the kit and a fully assembled & tested unit...

EDIT: ok a bit more explanation now. Like I said, it's a complex project. It is not a good project for someone who have not assembled electronic kits before. It is also not a good project for someone who wants to just solder pieces together without learning how things work. Now there are more than a few people who have done this successfully as a first kit or done this without reading through the schematics, etc. But sometimes it doesn't go as planned and things become difficult if you don't have experience, or tools, or understanding of how this thing works. A simple bad solder joint can derail the whole build for days as you debug the reasons for weird behavior. We actually had this happen to more than a couple of our builders. The layout is equally important - some people get in trouble by moving things around resulting in poor airflows in the critical areas. Thankfully, for about 6-9 months, all our kits have all the electronic components placed on PCBs - before we did that, there was a number of build problem related to people using alternative layouts resulting in higher parasitic inductances etc. 

So yes, it can be overwhelming. But with the right attitude, it all works out. And we do try hard to make sure that customers' builds succeed. We have accepted incomplete customer builds in our shop several times to diagnose for free. Every time it's a few hours of our time as everyone's build is different and we need to digest that before we can test anything. Try getting that from other manufacturers. Oh, wait, there is no kit that you can buy from other manufacturers... ;-) 

In the end, we build our complete units from absolutely the same kit components that you get. Every single thing is the same... Except maybe wires and bolts that we don't include in the kits.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Tom - core heating up this much at 35A output is abnormal and most likely means that the core is starting to fail due to overheating. You need a new core. What I suggest we do is to send you a spare inductor as a free replacement. We can run it on the test rig here going into the 100V pack and post a video.
> 
> Let me know.
> 
> ...


 Valery, Would you please answer the emails I've sent you on this? You said at the time it would be around 1 week...its 2 now. I guess I should have used rwaudio's conversion table.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Valery, Would you please answer the emails I've sent you on this? You said at the time it would be around 1 week...its 2 now. I guess I should have used rwaudio's conversion table.


Fedex'ed, you should have it in 1-2 days.


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

TexasCotton said:


> Glad I watched youtube on this diy charger............
> After self assembly and support and test. You may still be left needing a charger


If you just "need" a charger AND you want to save money, this kit is definitely NOT for you.

If, on the other hand, you are trying to explore new horizons, if you desire to learn a thing or two AND if you want to have a satisfaction of creating something better than what is generally available, then yes, try it by all means. 

On top of it, EMW (Valery) provides the support you can only dream of anywhere else! And most of us are very grateful for this unique opportunity.

But then again, if you just NEED a charger, just buy the finished one, EMW sells those too.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

george7g said:


> If you just "need" a charger AND you want to save money, this kit is definitely NOT for you.
> 
> If, on the other hand, you are trying to explore new horizons, if you desire to learn a thing or two AND if you want to have a satisfaction of creating something better than what is generally available, then yes, try it by all means.
> 
> ...


Thanks George!

Note that we also have a pre-assembly service on the kits, as well. Includes all PCB assembly - you just need to connect boards together and mount. Still saves ~$300-400 compared to the finished unit and lets you avoid board assembly issues.

Anyway, thought I'd also share a quick peek into the future for you guys. Below is our new control board - fresh off the press, so to speak. Will be testing in the next few weeks. This is Big Deal:
1. Based on Arduino Due, it has at least 10x the processing power compared to the current MCU version (84Mhz vs 16Mhz, 32-bit vs 8-bit, etc)
2. Never run out of memory - 512KB flash vs 32KB, 96KB of RAM vs 2KB, etc
3. Better comms: dual CAN tranceivers on board. Will be using CAN-DUE open-source library which seems to be in the top shape now (thanks to the work of some EVTV-affiliated guys!). Also, 4 hardware UART ports are available on Due. 2 of them will be used by LCD & WiFI (yes, read more below)
4. 256kbit EEPROM on board
5. micro-SD card on board
6. WiFly WiFI module on board - same one as used in our JuiceBox product.
7. 2 onboard relays for things like fan control, control of large precharge relays, etc
8. Direct USB programming - no FTDI required

And, of course, all the goodies you came to expect from our control boards (J1772, relay controls, temp sensors, LCD interface, etc, etc).

The board is designed to be a complete drop-in replacement for the current boards. It has the same mounting footprint and we preserved all the pin assignments and connector mapping. 

This is a prototype at this point, of course. So we would like your input on what else you'd like us to add to the board? E.g., more access to I/O, RTC, etc.

Also, what would you do with this new computing power? Tell us. One thing we will definitely use this board for is running a complete PFC algorithm in our 25-50kW units. This will allow for full control over switching frequencies etc. We will of course also implement CAN control of the charger (extending the serial control capability already there in the current units).

Let us know what you think!

V.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Make it speak to the deluxe dashboard and display charging info, input voltage, current, etc..... get some basic control FROM the dashboard? If that is secure/safe enough. IE something like the Tesla model S where you can within a certain range choose to undercharge the pack. 

It would be nice if there was an easier way to select between two charge currents. I commonly charge at two places and have to go through the set up on the charger to change the current. A couple of hardware inputs, or a few even, program 1, 2, 3 etc. 

Or if you really want to get fancy make it talk to the dashboard, and using built in tablet/phone GPS let it save charge current settings for different plugs based on location.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I was not familiar with the Arduino Due but I found a good overview as well as some discussion here:
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDue

I noticed some overlapped components on the board but I assume they are for optional or alternate configurations. Other than that I have no way of knowing just how good this design may be, and I have already mentioned my preference for having all reference designators face only one or two ways, and to use standard designators, and to have them ordered left-to-right and top-to-bottom. But I also realize you need to maintain compatibility with previous versions and documentation. 

It might be helpful to add a connector for a Blutooth module on one of the serial ports. This may be less complex than WiFi and it is very low cost.


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Valery,
I like the Due, it looks good. My feature list:
Real time clock based charging for overnight charging no matter what time the car was plugged in. 
A toggle switch for high/low charging current rates for example 32 amp/72 amp charge points.
DC-Dc charging system for plugging into high speed charge point locations.

Now for the real option: spoofing Tesla Super chargers into thinking there's a model S plugged in!


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> ...Real time clock based charging for overnight charging no matter what time the car was plugged in...


 +1. Also use it to do partial charges, to say charge for 30 minutes to add enough to get to your destination. Have it ramp down power at the end, and then trigger a relay on the AC input to disconnect AC power.

The ability to store several different input/output current settings which could be quickly selected for the power you wanted to use would also be nice, though I find just changing them in "parameters" is not that much trouble.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Fedex'ed, you should have it in 1-2 days.


Thanks! I'll post some data once I get it installed and tested.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> +1. Also use it to do partial charges, to say charge for 30 minutes to add enough to get to your destination. Have it ramp down power at the end, and then trigger a relay on the AC input to disconnect AC power.
> 
> The ability to store several different input/output current settings which could be quickly selected for the power you wanted to use would also be nice, though I find just changing them in "parameters" is not that much trouble.


Thanks guys for your suggestions! Note that you can already do time-bound charging via setting a timeout in the parameters. It doesn't trigger the input relay but does ramp the current down at the end of the charge.

1. I hear you about the RTC - will add. 
2. Will also add a BT option as a plug-in that can be inserted from the outside, with antenna sticking out of the unit.
3. Will add charger profiles via software (selected at startup). By default, the selection will stick until changed. 

Questions: 
1. Anyone has a good reference to a good set of CAN commands that we should support? We will definitely implement voltage and current setting commands per Leaf's CHAdeMO specs.
2. We can have a very simple remote control installed (garage door opener style) with 4 buttons that could be used for charging profile selection etc. Useful or you'd prefer control from your phone / tablet?

PS. board fully populated below. Will report on results of tests soon. 

V


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> 3. Will add charger profiles via software (selected at startup). By default, the selection will stick until changed.


I'm sure you'd have IO left, how hard would it be to assign one or more digital inputs to those profiles to allow hardware switches? A two or three position toggle in a convenient location (glove box or even dash) would give quick access the most commonly used profiles.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I'm sure you'd have IO left, how hard would it be to assign one or more digital inputs to those profiles to allow hardware switches? A two or three position toggle in a convenient location (glove box or even dash) would give quick access the most commonly used profiles.


good point. hardwired or wireless?


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Hi Graham
> 
> Great to hear you are close.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

Getting very close now, The car is in my garden now having it's final wire-up, may even manage a trundle round the garden tomorrow if all goes well with it's first HV power up.
Most of the bits are done now, traction pack is in, will be just running from 2 pack to start with for testing, soliton Jr is in and has been powered up from cars 12V IGN circuit.
Finished wiring up the Motor/DC-DC convertor today just the Vac pump relay to do but wont need that for a test tomorrow.
All I need to do is connect the battery leads and give it a whirl 
However I powered up the 12V section of the Charger last night for testing all looked well for about 0.5s "snap", "crackle", I did not wait for the pop! fried a 2n2222 (S3) on closer inspection tonight I realise my school boy error :-(
I had reverse orientated the lM211P that connects to S3
seeing as the board was still powering up and had not completely destroyed the 2n2222 before I pulled the plug do you think its likely the LM211P is useable?
Would it hurt to try it in the correct orientation, with a new 2n2222 of course which I do have in stock, and if so what would the symptoms be if the LM211P was fried?
Looking forward to powering up the HV stage 
Just checked all the other IC orientations on the driver board. (Dummy!)
Oh, and I got the J1772 connectors, Socket & PCB's a couple of weeks back now Thanks for that, been so busy trying to finish the car haven't posted here for ages, have been updating the blog a bit though with a few new pics and the usual waffle.

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/

Thanks Graham


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> good point. hardwired or wireless?


I think hardwired is good, that gives the option to the builder to have the switch(s) on the charger or mounted remotely. 

What kind of wireless did you have in mind?

My use case would be pull up at work, flick switch to "work" setting, plug in the car but otherwise ignore it. Same with home etc. Right now I have to pop the hatch, move a piece of carpet, plug in the car, wait for the charger to get to the 2nd menu, change the current, and start the charger. I also have to remember what settings I have in the charger, at home I charge at higher current than work, so I can use the work setting at home it just takes longer, if I forget to change the home setting back to work it will blow the breaker at work and I have to bother the appropriate people to get in the locked electrical room to reset the breaker. On a normal day it's really not that bad, on a rainy day it's a bit annoying.

What are the board dimensions? 

I'm finishing up the build of a compact watercooled version 9 charger. I might leave some room for a different main board if the driver board doesn't change.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> good point. hardwired or wireless?


 I'd prefer the 4 button remote you suggested, but switches would work, just less flexibility. My charger is under the hood and so is a 50A plug which I use at home or at RV parks. But I've added a J1772 in the gas door so for EVSE use away from home there would be no need for me to open the hood if I had a remote or switches (or if I had thought to mount the LCD and buttons in a box in the car).
Btw, I mentioned a few pages back that the EKM meter current readings were about twice what they should be, but it measured power accurately. I finally bothered to email EKM to ask why. Their response is below, makes sense:


> Because there is no reference to Neutral with this meter, the current reading is deceiving. The meter reads current in both lines, which in your case is equal (balanced), and for purposes of calculating power and energy, uses half the voltage, approximately what it would be from Line to Neutral. So because it is totaling the current in both lines, the current reading is twice what one would expect when thinking about a 240V circuit. What we are metering is, in effect, two 120V circuits, so if you think about as 120V x Amps Line1 + 120V x Amps Line2 = 120V x (Amps Line1 + Amps Line2) the math works out.


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Wireless connection to an android phone for changing the settings would be great.
A small computer type stereo jack (3 wires) would let you plug in a spdt switch away from the charger(on the cars dashboard). 
A center off position would "tell" the control board there's no switch connection present and it reverts to a default preset or front panel button menu / android phone adjustment system. 
You would have three separate charge rates (high, low, & default preset) before ever powering the charger up. 
It really would be best to have just a simple switch that you can tell what charge rate it's going to be without ever powering anything up, just check the position of the toggle switch and plug the AC in. 
No guess work, no time spent getting to the correct menu, no problem just quick. 
Something probably needs to make the switch only active on startup or inactive while charging in case someone wonders "what does this do?" while charging and toggles the switch.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I think hardwired is good, that gives the option to the builder to have the switch(s) on the charger or mounted remotely.
> 
> What kind of wireless did you have in mind?
> 
> ...


wireless remote is a simple garage-door-opener style remote with 4 buttons. We use it on our JuiceBox premium to preserve water resistance (no buttons sticking out of the box). 

Dimensions of the new board are 4x5 inches.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Hi Valery,
> I like the Due, it looks good. My feature list:
> Real time clock based charging for overnight charging no matter what time the car was plugged in.
> A toggle switch for high/low charging current rates for example 32 amp/72 amp charge points.
> ...


missed the DC-DC point earlier - this is a really good idea... Although I'm afraid the connector is going to be an issue - we are looking for these now for our future CHAdeMO units and they are all >$1000...


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> wireless remote is a simple garage-door-opener style remote with 4 buttons. We use it on our JuiceBox premium to preserve water resistance (no buttons sticking out of the box).
> 
> Dimensions of the new board are 4x5 inches.


Ok, perhaps the option of both, but for me it's exactly what Zak650 described with the spdt switch where you set it before plugging in and it just does whatever program is tied to that switch setting. I would imagine with the wireless set up you should still require some sort of "timing" to make it work. IE plug in then press the selection or whatever.


----------



## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

One of the benefits of the front panel stereo jack is that the charger is built and functions exactly the same but the actual location of the three position toggle switch is completely flexible in it's location or if it isn't even used.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*10kW / 60A DIY charger data*

I received the new output inductor yesterday afternoon, installed it and tested it today (9/6/13). Results are given below. A total of 4 tests were done (title of each test is underlined). It is better than the previous inductor as far as max temperature. I could not test it at 12kW as the charger would only put out a max of about 11kW, and only for about 3 minutes before heat sink temp started thermal cutback of the output (third test). See "comments" at end of each test for more details.

All tests were done with period = 55 in the code, same as it was set at in the latter part of first set of tests (with the other output inductor). Nothing changed since first tests other than the new output inductor. Pack was at 81.1 Ah used (180Ah cells) at start of testing (55% SoC). Testing was started after the car sat overnight, ambient T at start: 24C. Cover was left off the charger in order to measure inductor temp with IR meter on EXTECH 830 meter.

*Lower Current:*
*Settings: *Input I = 25A, output I = 40A
*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 121
37.6 < Iout < 40.2
Duty Cycle: 33.5%
Initial T = 24 C
Final T = 39 C
Run Time: 10 min
Ah in: 8

*EKM meter *(on AC to charger):
V = 239V
20.9 < I < 23.3
4931W < P < 5300W
Power factor line 1 = Power Factor line 2 = 1.00

*TBS Gauge* (V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack)
V = 120.8
37.2 < I < 40.1
Ah in: 8.1

*Comments:*
Output inductor T: 56 C at 8 min, 69 C at 10 min
Efficiency ~91% (using TBS & EKM readings)

*Higher Current:*
*Settings:* Input I = 45A, output I = 80A

*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 122
68.2A < Iout < 71.5A
Duty Cycle: 33.6%
Initial T = 25 C
Final T = 49 C, steady last 3 minutes
Run Time: 10 min
Ah in: 11

*EKM meter *(on AC input to charger) 
V = 234V
36.7A < I < 40.7A
8527W < Power < 9005W
Power factor line 1 = Power factor line 2 = 1.00

*TBS gauge *(V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack) 
V = 121.8V
65.4A < I < 70.2A

*Comments: *
Did not reach the set point input or output currents.
Output inductor T: 44C initial, 84C at 6 min, 92C at 10 min, still creeping up
Apparently started thermal cutback, since EMW output current reading dropped to 58A/61A and EKM power dropped to 7716W/8300W by ~ 9 min
Initial average power in = 8766W, initial ave power out (TBS) = 8258W, efficiency ~ 94%

*Still higher input/output current settings: *

*Settings:* Input I = 55A, output I = 100A

*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 122.8
83.4A < Iout < 86.6A
Duty Cycle: 35.3%
Initial T = 26 C
Final T = 51 C
Run Time: 3 min

*EKM meter* (on AC to charger) 
V = 230V
48.3A < I < 51A
10911W < Power < 11002W
Power factor line 1 = Power factor line 2 = 1.00

*TBS gauge *(V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack) 
V = 122.9V
73.2A < I < 80.1A

*Comments:*
It takes about 2 - 3 minutes to get all the readings due to the oscillations, so I did not measure coil T until 3 minutes, at which point it was 64C and climbing. I read these quickly so I may not have caught the true highest and lowest values for each, and I read the TBS last which is likely why the current is a bit lower than the EMW readings.
I stopped the test because by 3 min the heat sink temp was 51C and output current was down to about 68A.

*Charge at 35A output setting to reach CC/CV transition and test current cut back*

*Settings:* Input I = 30A, output I = 35A

*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 122V
32.9 < Iout < 35.3
Duty Cycle: 33.2%
Initial T = 27C
Final T = 80C (stable)
Run Time: 90 min 
Ah in: 51 (Charger stopped, posted “Charging complete, press right button to run again”)

*EKM meter *(on AC to charger) 
V = 239V
33.4A < I < 39.6A
4039W < Power < 4681W
Power factor line 1 = Power factor line 2 = 1.00

*TBS gauge *(V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack) 
V = 121.3
29.2A < I < 34.8A

*Comments:*
I did not see any CC/CV transition with output current tapering down to 0.05C. Within 1 min after I took the 90 minute temperature readings the charger stopped and posted: "Charging complete, push right button to run again". The pack was about 6 Ah short of full. I had set the cell voltage at 3.45V so expected the charger to cut back current at about 3.45*36 cells = 124.2V. I didn't see the voltage at the end due to taking other readings, so not sure what the final voltage was, but there was no tapering of current before it stopped (unless it was mighty quick).

After about 15 minutes run time in this test all readings stabilized (stopped oscillating) and remained stable until about 35 min run time when they resumed oscillating. Current readings on all meters did not oscillate by more than 0.2A during this time other than a longer term drift downward by about 1A total over the 20 minute period before they started oscillating over the same range as before. I also noticed they stabilized at about 78 min run time, but were only stable for about 2-3 min that time. Readings while stable after 15 min:
EMW: 33.2% Duty cycle, 34.5A output current, 122V, TBS: 33.7A, 121.7V, EKM: 38.8A, 4599W. These are similar to the average of the oscillating readings.

Efficiency from readings while stable: 89% (TBS readings), 92% (EMW readings)
Battery T at end of all tests: 35C
Ambient T at end of all tests: 33C
Output inductor and heat sink temperatures vs time for this test:
View attachment EMW temp vs time, 9_6_13.pdf

After letting things cool a bit after this test I unplugged the charger, measured the output inductor temp at 66C, and touched the core with my finger between windings. I could not leave my finger on it more than 4 - 5 sec, so yes it was fairly hot. It will require a lot more cooling of both the heat sink and output inductor for me to get even 10kW out of this charger for more than a few minutes.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger data*

For the above 9/6/13 measurements I held the IR meter about 3 1/2 to 4" away from the inductor, pointed at about 1/4" of core exposed between two windings. Spot size is 1/2" at 4", so the readings are some average of the core and winding. I may try to get a thermistor and tape it to the core between the windings and see what it reads.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Valery

After my Schoolboy error, I corrected the orientation of the LM211P and replaced the fried 2n2222.
powered up and after a little fiddling got the firmware to upload successfully, YEY 
So now I have my 12V section powered up.
However I seem to have the same display issue as jhuebner had on page 50 of this thread, could this be being caused by a fried lM211P?
jhuebner sorted his by changing some values in the display library but I am guessing you would have fixed this in this Firmware release:-
V 2013_05_31_V11
which is the one I am using.
Does the LM211P have anything to do with screen refreshes?
It does not from the looks of the schematic .
(in layman's terms what does the LM211 do? It appears to take input from the J1772 so I am guessing some sort of voltage control/cutoff signal for the charge point).
Any ideas what might be causing the garbled display? It makes setting up the unit almost impossible.

Many Thanks

Graham


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger data*

I mounted 150 CFM fan above the output inductor for this test. All else was the same as previous tests. The pack had 28 Ah used at the start of the test, or 84% SoC.

*Settings: *Input I = 35A, output I = 70A
*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 123V
50.4 < Iout < 56.6 These reduced to 46.3/50.3 after ~14 min when heat sink was at 48C
Duty Cycle: 34.4%
Initial T = 22 C
Final T = 48 C
Run Time: 15 min

*EKM meter *(on AC to charger):
V = 237V
29.3A < I < 32.7A
6855W < P < 7583W

*TBS Gauge* (V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack)
V = 122.7
50.5 < I < 56.2

Temp’s vs time: T core T heat sink Time (min)
31 37 2
38 43 5
41 47 10
44 48 15
50 48 20

efficiency: 91% (using TBS and EKM readings)

*Comments:*
The additional fan reduced the output inductor temperature significantly. Enough at this power level that the heat sink temperature started thermal cutback while the inductor core was less than 50C, so should be fine to run at this power level, which is about the max I can get from a 30A public EVSE. 

I would have to replace the heat sink fans purchased from EMW with higher CFM ones to go higher in output power. I haven’t gotten a response from Valery on the CFM of these fans, and cannot see any labeling on them while mounted in the charger, but suspect they are less than 150 CFM because of their smaller size (~95x95x25mm), compared to the 151 CFM fan I used over the output inductor which is 120x120x38mm thick.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> However I powered up the 12V section of the Charger last night for testing all looked well for about 0.5s "snap", "crackle", I did not wait for the pop! fried a 2n2222 (S3) on closer inspection tonight I realise my school boy error :-(
> I had reverse orientated the lM211P that connects to S3
> seeing as the board was still powering up and had not completely destroyed the 2n2222 before I pulled the plug do you think its likely the LM211P is useable?
> ...


Hi Graham - sorry for the delay in responding. The energy had to go somewhere so probably LM211P is dead. But you can try using it in the right orientation, of course. Just watch for the input current on the supply.

Unlikely anything else is dead so looking forward to your next report.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

couple more photos of the new Due-based control board. testing later this week (I hope).


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Tom - your test reports are best I've ever seen! Thank you for posting in such detail - I know this can be tedious...

The fans we use are DigiKey part number 603-1216-ND - 72 CFM.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I charged at nominal 30A output this morning and saw that when the EMW reading for output voltage was 124V, the charger displayed "Type2..." for about 2 -3 sec, then posted "Charging complete, press right button to run again". Iirc type2 means it has started the CV phase, but it only lasted a couple seconds then shut off. Why did it not taper current down to 0.05C (9A for my 180Ah cells)? 
(I expected it to enter CV at this voltage since I set cell voltage at 345, so 124.2V for 36 cells, so it is doing that correctly)

I will have to add more cooling to the charger. I'm thinking of removing the two 70 CFM fans and mounting two 150 CFM fans in place of them on the outside of the front of the charger since they are too thick (38mm) to fit inside. This would approx double the cooling, permitting higher power output without thermal cutback, and hopefully keep the output inductor cool enough to run at 7 - 8 kW. If I require further cooling of the inductor I can cut through the enclosure cover and mount another fan above the inductor. Again, the measured efficiencies seem fine, it just appears there is not enough cooling to run higher currents due to output IGBT and output inductor getting too hot. This wouldn't be an issue with a 300V pack since currents are lower, but is with a 120V one. It would be a lot easier to cut out the back and mount the fans on the outside of the back of the charger, but I don't think they would cool the heat sink sufficiently that way due to blockage and heating of the air by the inductors.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I charged at nominal 30A output this morning and saw that when the EMW reading for output voltage was 124V, the charger displayed "Type2..." for about 2 -3 sec, then posted "Charging complete, press right button to run again". Iirc type2 means it has started the CV phase, but it only lasted a couple seconds then shut off. Why did it not taper current down to 0.05C (9A for my 180Ah cells)?
> (I expected it to enter CV at this voltage since I set cell voltage at 345, so 124.2V for 36 cells, so it is doing that correctly)
> 
> I will have to add more cooling to the charger. I'm thinking of removing the two 70 CFM fans and mounting two 150 CFM fans in place of them on the outside of the front of the charger since they are too thick (38mm) to fit inside. This would approx double the cooling, permitting higher power output without thermal cutback, and hopefully keep the output inductor cool enough to run at 7 - 8 kW. If I require further cooling of the inductor I can cut through the enclosure cover and mount another fan above the inductor. Again, the measured efficiencies seem fine, it just appears there is not enough cooling to run higher currents due to output IGBT and output inductor getting too hot. This wouldn't be an issue with a 300V pack since currents are lower, but is with a 120V one. It would be a lot easier to cut out the back and mount the fans on the outside of the back of the charger, but I don't think they would cool the heat sink sufficiently that way due to blockage and heating of the air by the inductors.


the short CV step is due to cells keeping their high voltage for a while after CC step is over. The lower your CV point, the slower the dissipation of that voltage is. At 3.5V CV, you normally don't have a problem. At 3.55V CV, I've never seen that problem. 

Basically, if the voltage does not fall within the 5 second break between CC and CV, the charger sees CV voltage on the cells without any current and after a few seconds of observing that decides that the cells are fully charged.

re cooling - consider adding those 150 CFM fans as 'pullers' on the outside of the case next to inductors. You might have to block out the rest of the output grill in that case to avoid parasitic recirculation...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi valery 

Just a bit of time until i order your charger ... Is it csa certified yet or no ? Im asking because quebec laws need it to be ... I can get away with it myself if need be ... Im an electricien by trade and i know how to bypass these foolish laws but if its not yet csa approved you might want to arange something with me ... The inly problem is that its ever changing ... Dont know if it would have to be approved at every change that could get costly and annoying


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Hi Graham - sorry for the delay in responding. The energy had to go somewhere so probably LM211P is dead. But you can try using it in the right orientation, of course. Just watch for the input current on the supply.
> 
> Unlikely anything else is dead so looking forward to your next report.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

LM211 came today, fitted it immediately, no change to the operation, it still does not ask me to connect the battery for calibration just skips to "Max INput current"

So I am guessing the LM211 was fine after all, still stuck however

Any Suggestions?

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Hi valery
> 
> Just a bit of time until i order your charger ... Is it csa certified yet or no ? Im asking because quebec laws need it to be ... I can get away with it myself if need be ... Im an electricien by trade and i know how to bypass these foolish laws but if its not yet csa approved you might want to arange something with me ... The inly problem is that its ever changing ... Dont know if it would have to be approved at every change that could get costly and annoying


Hi - no it is not certified. Re arrangements - please PM me


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> LM211 came today, fitted it immediately, no change to the operation, it still does not ask me to connect the battery for calibration just skips to "Max INput current"
> 
> ...


LM211 was most likely fried - you just didn't yet get to the point in testing the charger when it would matter.

Time to troubleshoot. I need you to measure voltage on the input pin of A7520 when no AC is connected - just power up 12V. Let me know what you see

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

mentioned this to Tom in our email exchange and realized that this could be useful to a bunch of people. In the last few versions of the control board and firmware, we have a provision for the second thermistor. If you uncomment INDtemp #define switch, the charger will combine both readings to decide when to cut back on power. By default, thermal derating starts at 55C for heatsink, 85C for the inductor. In case of fan failure this leads to ~70-75C heatsink temp and ~100C inductor temp (with 250V output).


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> mentioned this to Tom in our email exchange and realized that this could be useful to a bunch of people. In the last few versions of the control board and firmware, we have a provision for the second thermistor. If you uncomment INDtemp #define switch, the charger will combine both readings to decide when to cut back on power. By default, thermal derating starts at 55C for heatsink, 85C for the inductor. In case of fan failure this leads to ~70-75C heatsink temp and ~100C inductor temp (with 250V output).


Is this "T2" on the Control board?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Sorry, should have asked this...do you have any suggestions for attaching the thermistor to the core? And you knew this was coming...any way to display both temperatures, rather than just the heat sink temperature?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Ah, yes, it is T2. From the code:


> #ifdef IND_Temp return max(hST, t2*0.65); #else return hST; #endif } // read the charger heatsink temp float read_heatSinkT() { return read_T(pin_heatSinkT, R0_hST, R1_hST, V_hST, B_hST); } // *read the charger secondary temp float read_T2*() { return read_T(pin_temp2, R0_t2ST, R1_t2ST, V_t2ST, B_t2ST); }


My version does not have the defIND statement and associated code. Any issues running the newest version on my charger with V10 control board?


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> LM211 was most likely fried - you just didn't yet get to the point in testing the charger when it would matter.
> 
> Time to troubleshoot. I need you to measure voltage on the input pin of A7520 when no AC is connected - just power up 12V. Let me know what you see
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying promptly Valery, Will do this 1st thing tonight after work, however as I dont yet have access to a schematic of the driver board that shows an A7520 can you tell me which pin is the input?, I have V9.4 Driver board with the A7520 fitted and I have the the PCB layout file but not the schematic, Can you send me a link to the schematic for V9.4 Driver board?

Thanks

Graham


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> ...And you knew this was coming...any way to display both temperatures, rather than just the heat sink temperature?


 Looks like it does this. From the newest version of firmware:



> #ifdef IND_Temp
> sprintf(str, "T = %dC, %dC ", int(b1T), int(t2)); myLCD->printStr(0, 5, 2, 0x1f, 0, 0, str);
> #else
> sprintf(str, "T = %dC ", int(b1T)); myLCD->printStr(0, 5, 2, 0x1f, 0, 0, str);


So it appears it prints both "Temp" and "T2", if IND_Temp is un-commented and only "Temp" if not.

Great! Now I just need a thermistor and a way to attach it to the core. Maybe just sit it on there and put a glob of silicone over it. Then I guess I'll just try the newest firmware and see if it works.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Valery,
My V9 code does not have the inductor temperature code so I've downloaded V11. There is no #defineHall100U statement in V11, only Allegro_100U for output current sensor. Also an Allegro_150U which it says needs to stay un-commented. Will this work ok with my older driver board and V10 control board? Should I change the code to add #defineHall100U?


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> LM211 was most likely fried - you just didn't yet get to the point in testing the charger when it would matter.
> 
> Time to troubleshoot. I need you to measure voltage on the input pin of A7520 when no AC is connected - just power up 12V. Let me know what you see
> 
> ...


 
Hi Valery

All pins on the A7520 have 0V except for pin's 6 & 8 which have 4.82V on them with 12V DC applied via the AC adaptor.

I have no AC Power connected to the charger and will not until all 12V testing is complete and working as expected.

Thanks

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Valery,
> My V9 code does not have the inductor temperature code so I've downloaded V11. There is no #defineHall100U statement in V11, only Allegro_100U for output current sensor. Also an Allegro_150U which it says needs to stay un-commented. Will this work ok with my older driver board and V10 control board? Should I change the code to add #defineHall100U?


Yes, 
#define OUTC_SENSOR Allegro_100U // default is Allegro_100U
replaces Hall100U switch from before. 

The code should work on your board, yes. Just make sure 7520 switches are in correct configuration for your driver board.

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> All pins on the A7520 have 0V except for pin's 6 & 8 which have 4.82V on them with 12V DC applied via the AC adaptor.
> 
> ...


Hm, could be the power supply problem for 7520. Can you measure voltage between:
1. pins 1 and 4 of 7520
2. pins 8 and 5 of 7520
3. pins 5 and 4 of U6 (A3120 on the PFC (left) side of the driver board - even if you don't have it placed)
4. pins 8 and 4 of U6
5. pins 5 and 8 of U7 (A3120 on the buck (right) side of the driver board)

Thanks,
Valery.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Hm, could be the power supply problem for 7520. Can you measure voltage between:
> 1. pins 1 and 4 of 7520
> 2. pins 8 and 5 of 7520
> 3. pins 5 and 4 of U6 (A3120 on the PFC (left) side of the driver board - even if you don't have it placed)
> ...


Hi Valery

1. pins 1 and 4 of 7520 = 4.8v
2. pins 8 and 5 of 7520 = 4.84v
3. pins 5 and 4 of U6 (A3120 on the PFC (left) side of the driver board - even if you don't have it placed) = 15.71v
4. pins 8 and 4 of U6 = 15.69v
5. pins 5 and 8 of U7 (A3120 on the buck (right) side of the driver board) = 0v

Just drove my EV around the garden for the very first time after spending this morning reassembling & recalibrating the TPS. "Quick get the camera" 

MOT soon, no pressure 

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> 1. pins 1 and 4 of 7520 = 4.8v
> 2. pins 8 and 5 of 7520 = 4.84v
> ...


so 7520 has power... I thought you said before that all pins on the chip have zero volts except 2. Anyway, can you measure between pins 2 and 4, and 7 and 5?

Also, your last reading of 0V (on U7) indicates that the U4 DC-DC is out, possibly with the U7 (usually these go together).


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I think hardwired is good, that gives the option to the builder to have the switch(s) on the charger or mounted remotely.
> 
> What kind of wireless did you have in mind?
> 
> ...


Hi

I read this thread with interest. I built one EMW charger from half kit. I have it set up as a 3phase unit with common neutral. I use three 50A bridges with outputs joined at the capacitors. This way i can use all the benefits of the AC lines and have only 320VDC output. 
However at work and at other stations i also have single phase 230VAC. How to switch to single phase since it only has 16A fuse? 
Valery helped; i used one multipole 230V relay and wired it before 2nd bridge to energise only in the presence of the 2nd phase. On the NO pole i wired +320VDC output of the bridges, but on the NC side i wired +12VDC from the power supply. Common wire goes to the Vbop pin of the driver board connector. 

In the code "pwr=min(pwr, 9.); // equivalent 15A from 110VAC // DEBUG" I changed (pwr, 14) to get like 3kW iutput from a single phase.

This way i could switch from 3 or single phase automatically. 
That is i will test the charger this week . I will let you know how it turns out. You could replicate the system easily with a 12Vdc relay and manual control - two position switch at the fuel cover... I like the one with the red safety, it emanates importance "do not touch (!) unless you know what it does"... 

http://mazdamx3ev.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/polnilec-10kw/

A


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

tomofreno said:


> I checked wiring connections and R36 (the resistor in series with the diode from the J1772 pin). Wiring is connected correctly with J1772 pilot wire to J1772 pin on the control board and J1772 ground wire to GND pin on the control board, and R36 is 977 Ohm. Don't know why I am getting an _Error: Venting required_ message from the EVSE.


 Bad diode. Failed diode checker test. I replaced it with a new one, and while I was at it replaced the 1kOhm with an 827 Ohm I had. Works now.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> so 7520 has power... I thought you said before that all pins on the chip have zero volts except 2. Anyway, can you measure between pins 2 and 4, and 7 and 5?
> 
> Also, your last reading of 0V (on U7) indicates that the U4 DC-DC is out, possibly with the U7 (usually these go together).


Hi Valery

I measured the first readings using the ground pin of C3 as a ground reference, from there the 7520 only has readings on pins, 6 (4.82V) & 8 (4.82V)

The second set of readings were taken from the 7520 itself, "between" the pins you mentioned, I have just realised the two ground planes are not connected, i.e. pin 4 & 5 of A7520, my mistake.

1. pins 1 and 4 of 7520 = 4.8v
2. pins 8 and 5 of 7520 = 4.84v
3. pins 5 and 4 of U6 (A3120 on the PFC (left) side of the driver board - even if you don't have it placed) = -15.71v (minus)
4. pins 8 and 4 of U6 = 15.69v
5. pins 5 and 8 of U7 (A3120 on the buck (right) side of the driver board) = -31.5v (minus)

And on checking, (the late nights are obviously getting to me )

I mistook a 0L for a 0V, my DVM was reading out of range on the U7 reading, whoops! it is actually at -31.5v not zero, sorry.

and the reading on 5 and 4 of U6 was actually -15.71 a negative value.
 
And finally between pins:-

2 and 4 is -0.5v
7 and 5 is 0v

I assume we are talking about the A7520 here.

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I mistook a 0L for a 0V, my DVM was reading out of range on the U7 reading, whoops! it is actually at -31.5v not zero, sorry.
> 
> ...


ok good re U6, U7 - all DC-DC converters seem to work - which is a good thing.

A7520 pin 2 to 4 voltage is too far into negative for some reason. I will need you to investigate. Please check voltage on the connection point between S1 and R13 (careful not to short anything) - measure relative to pin 4 of the A7520 (or any point on the same ground plane). Should read -5V. If it reads more negative (say, -15V), check that S1 is indeed a LM79l05 part.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> ok good re U6, U7 - all DC-DC converters seem to work - which is a good thing.
> 
> A7520 pin 2 to 4 voltage is too far into negative for some reason. I will need you to investigate. Please check voltage on the connection point between S1 and R13 (careful not to short anything) - measure relative to pin 4 of the A7520 (or any point on the same ground plane). Should read -5V. If it reads more negative (say, -15V), check that S1 is indeed a LM79l05 part.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

If you mean the connection point that is physically located between S1 & R13 then I think this is Vout on S1 and is at -4.94v (connected to R3)

S1 is definitely a 79L05.

Many thanks

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> If you mean the connection point that is physically located between S1 & R13 then I think this is Vout on S1 and is at -4.94v (connected to R3)
> 
> ...


interesting. The R3/R13 divider is supposed to bring that voltage from -5V down to 2.7k/68k*(-5V)=-0.2V - which should be the voltage at pin 2 (relative to pins 3 or 4). You are seeing -0.5V. If your measurement is correct, this is the reason why your unit can't calibrate. I would double check R3/R13 resistor values and soldering quality.


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## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

So I purchased a fully assembled and tested EMW 12000 charger. It arrived yesterday, a little bent up from shipping but looked OK.

Today I wired it up expecting to charge my newly converted mower and....nothing.

No LCD display, no fans spinning. I've tried 120v and 240v, tried a DC input, tried different voltage battery packs...nothing.

I've opened it up and I don't see anything wrong. One of the inductor mounts is cracked, but nothing that should keep it from powering up.

I'm stumped. Why doesn't my charger turn on?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

AmpEater said:


> So I purchased a fully assembled and tested EMW 12000 charger. It arrived yesterday, a little bent up from shipping but looked OK.
> 
> Today I wired it up expecting to charge my newly converted mower and....nothing.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Sorry for the trouble. Seems like damage in transit. Could you pls file a claim with the shipper and have them ship it back?

Maybe also take a couple of snaps with the lid open?

Thanks,
Valery.


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## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

valerun said:


> Interesting. Sorry for the trouble. Seems like damage in transit. Could you pls file a claim with the shipper and have them ship it back?
> 
> Maybe also take a couple of snaps with the lid open?
> 
> ...


I uploaded some images. http://imgur.com/a/IjghK Does anything stand out?

I could ship the unit back, but I'd much prefer to find the problem and get it working. Does a lack of power to the screen possibly indicate a problem with the power supply board?

Thanks for getting back to me quickly


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

AmpEater said:


> I uploaded some images. http://imgur.com/a/IjghK Does anything stand out?
> 
> I could ship the unit back, but I'd much prefer to find the problem and get it working. Does a lack of power to the screen possibly indicate a problem with the power supply board?
> 
> Thanks for getting back to me quickly


Thanks for photos! Like you said, nothing stands out. Can you check all wiring connections? Particularly from power supply board to the driver board. We had this type of case before when a connector went loose after shipping.

Thanks,
V


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## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

valerun said:


> Thanks for photos! Like you said, nothing stands out. Can you check all wiring connections? Particularly from power supply board to the driver board. We had this type of case before when a connector went loose after shipping.
> 
> Thanks,
> V


So I hooked up the unit to a 100v DC battery and starting poking stuff, when I touched the 5 pin big white connector the unit powered up. It also looks like perhaps the wire connected to N on the supply board was contacting the leg of D4 on the supply board. I will secure it with glue.


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

Hi Valery,

I'd like to experiment with different core materials etc.

Can you provide the exact part number and/or source where you get your inductor cores, or is this a "trade secret"? It would be interesting to compare with ferrite cores etc.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I'd like to experiment with different core materials etc.
> 
> Can you provide the exact part number and/or source where you get your inductor cores, or is this a "trade secret"? It would be interesting to compare with ferrite cores etc.


no secrets ;-) 

Micrometals T400-30D. 4 strands of AWG16, 50-60 turns. Download Micrometals simulator soft from their site to model this inductor. 

You will get ~130uH at 70A bias current. ~50W core loss. Note that their lifetime estimates are based on natural convection cooling and are not valid for forced air. 

Ferrites will not work for this application as the flux swing is way too high for any reasonably sized core. The largest ferrite core we found (for our current tests of the high-voltage isolation stage) is Ferroxcube T140 series. And we have to use 2 of those stacked in order to handle 200V AC swing with reasonable number of turns (<100). For the PFC stage of this charger, you will have to design the inductor that can handle 2x that - 400V on the PFC stage. Then there is an issue of the DC flux bias in both inductors and ferrites don't handle that well. Then you have to deal with the copper loss from 100+ turns. It's not pretty. And 2 of those cores cost us $250... $200 in volume. The only reason we had to go with ferrites for that application is that we needed to get high magnetizing inductance for the transformer. 

I'd suggest you stick to powder metal as they support flux of up to 1.3T (as opposed to 0.3-0.35T for ferrites). There are lower-loss cores from Micrometals. They are also much more expensive and also lower AL values so you need more turns to get the reasonable current ripple.

We went through this thinking process a couple of times and believe that with forced air, T400-30D are best compromise. But of course it's impossible to cover all permutations so maybe you will find something we missed.

Aside from trying new cores for the existing unit, perhaps you could help us with the transformer design for the isolation stage? PM me if interested. Any other magnetics experts here - please chime in, as well.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Valery,

I loaded the V11 code into the charger after installing a thermistor on the output inductor. The charger started fine. I ran through calibration again, set the power, and when I confirmed "Yes" to "Run charger", it indicated it was starting Type 1...then the LCD went blank. It remained blank for several seconds, then posted that charging was complete. Ran it again, same thing. Checked the current meter when the LCD went blank, and the charger did not put out any current. For some reason it thinks the pack is at 126V rather than the actual 119V. So is it getting an incorrect voltage reading? I have the ISO124.

Here are my main switch settings:

//------------------------------ MAIN SWITCHES -----------------------------------
#define INmC_SENSOR Allegro_150U // this needs to stay uncommented!
// #define OUTC_SENSOR Tamura_50B // Tamura_50B
#define OUTC_SENSOR Allegro_100U // Allegro_100U
#define MCC100A // 100A output rating - use ONLY with a custom-wound inductor
// #define buck_Ecore // Ecore output inductor - limit output current to lower value
//#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
// #define A7520_mV // using A7520 optoisolation for mV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
// #define PC817 // mains voltage sensing based on a crude regular opto (V13 boards)
#define PFC // is this a PFC unit?
// #define PFCdirect // is this a PFCDirect 25kW unit?
float PFCvoltage=370.; // normally 370
#define drop110power // reduce power to ~1.5kW when connected to 110VAC?
// #define UVLO // enable gate supply undervoltage protection?
// #define NiXX // do we want support for Nickel chemistries?
#define IND_Temp // do we have a second temp probe on the inductor?

I guess I'l reload the V9 code for now so I can charge.


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks! Unfortunately, I'm no magnetics expert either. I think there are very few of those. For most of us, magnetics are more or less black magic where experimentation with the actual products defines everything. But I'll report in if I find any useful modifications in your way of thinking.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> interesting. The R3/R13 divider is supposed to bring that voltage from -5V down to 2.7k/68k*(-5V)=-0.2V - which should be the voltage at pin 2 (relative to pins 3 or 4). You are seeing -0.5V. If your measurement is correct, this is the reason why your unit can't calibrate. I would double check R3/R13 resistor values and soldering quality.


Hi Valery

Thank you very much, I had inadvertently used a 27K as R13 not 2.7K as required.

Replaced R13 with the tiny 2.7K (which I had in the bits that were left over)

Great, 1 step forward  the screen now shows "Calibrated Zero" as expected and then "Connect battery to calibrate or press any button to skip"

Connected Battery (74v pack, 36 x 18.5v Turnigy LIPO's, 4 banks of 9 cells in parallel, 45AH)

Unfortunately that is as far as it went 

Where do I go to debug the sensing circuit?

Many thanks

Graham


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> Thank you very much, I had inadvertently used a 27K as R13 not 2.7K as required.
> 
> ...


when you connected battery, did the LCD say anything at all?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Valery,
> 
> I loaded the V11 code into the charger after installing a thermistor on the output inductor. The charger started fine. I ran through calibration again, set the power, and when I confirmed "Yes" to "Run charger", it indicated it was starting Type 1...then the LCD went blank. It remained blank for several seconds, then posted that charging was complete. Ran it again, same thing. Checked the current meter when the LCD went blank, and the charger did not put out any current. For some reason it thinks the pack is at 126V rather than the actual 119V. So is it getting an incorrect voltage reading? I have the ISO124.
> 
> ...


Tom - do you have BMS and EOC pins connected together (directly or through a closed loop BMS system)?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Tom - do you have BMS and EOC pins connected together (directly or through a closed loop BMS system)?


Ahhh! I forgot to plug the jumper in. But here is something strange...I loaded the V9 software on it and it ran fine with EOC and BMS pins disconnected. Well, I'll load the V11 code and try it again with the jumper this time.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> when you connected battery, did the LCD say anything at all?


Hi Valery

No, It just stays on the "Connect battery to calibrate or press any button to skip" screen.

It never detects the battery is connected at all.

I assume I was not meant to "press any button" and skip the calibration.

I waited 5 minutes no change, disconnected battery, still no change, repeated everything just to make sure, still no change.

Where should I start with checking the voltage sensing circuit?

Graham


----------



## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> No, It just stays on the "Connect battery to calibrate or press any button to skip" screen.
> 
> ...


Unless this has been changed greatly since I put mine together it is pretty simple. Check the output voltage hall sensor and make certain it has the gnd and 5V on the power pins and with the battery leads shorted you should see about 2.5 volts on the signal pin. Connect up the battery and you should see the signal voltage change upward. If the voltage goes down the wire is passing through the hall sensor the wrong way. If it doesn't change then there is no current flowing through the resistor that is connected to the battery plus or is it the wrong resistor or the hall sensor is broken. You should see pack voltage across that resistor when the battery is hooked up even if the resistor is wrong.

If all that looks ok then check the input pin on the CPU. It should match the output of the hall sensor. If that looks good then the software isn't checking that A/D input or that CPU input has been blown.

Good luck!


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

dougingraham said:


> Unless this has been changed greatly since I put mine together it is pretty simple. Check the output voltage hall sensor and make certain it has the gnd and 5V on the power pins and with the battery leads shorted you should see about 2.5 volts on the signal pin. Connect up the battery and you should see the signal voltage change upward. If the voltage goes down the wire is passing through the hall sensor the wrong way. If it doesn't change then there is no current flowing through the resistor that is connected to the battery plus or is it the wrong resistor or the hall sensor is broken. You should see pack voltage across that resistor when the battery is hooked up even if the resistor is wrong.
> 
> If all that looks ok then check the input pin on the CPU. It should match the output of the hall sensor. If that looks good then the software isn't checking that A/D input or that CPU input has been blown.
> 
> Good luck!


Hi Dougingraham

Thanks for replying.

You set me on the right path to my next schoolboy error 

I had my Vbop, Vout connector incorrectly placed (vout connected to Vbop and Vbop connected to Vovp, Dummy!

So thanks very much Dougingraham I am sure Valery would have got me there but I really appreciate the help.

On with the testing 

Many Thanks

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

This is a question to anyone on this forum who has a working EMW charger and knows how to use it (because I don't, yet )

when switched on the charger asks you for:

cell type
CV cuttoff
number of cells
capacity

If I have a battery box with 36 cells wired as 4 series banks of 9 parallel blocks giving a total of 45AH in the whole box. (each cell is 5AH)

does the charger want details of each cell in the box plus the number of cells.

or is it asking me for the capacity of the whole box

i.e. do I enter 45 for the capacity or 5?

Many Thanks

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dougingraham said:


> Unless this has been changed greatly since I put mine together it is pretty simple. Check the output voltage hall sensor and make certain it has the gnd and 5V on the power pins and with the battery leads shorted you should see about 2.5 volts on the signal pin. Connect up the battery and you should see the signal voltage change upward. If the voltage goes down the wire is passing through the hall sensor the wrong way. If it doesn't change then there is no current flowing through the resistor that is connected to the battery plus or is it the wrong resistor or the hall sensor is broken. You should see pack voltage across that resistor when the battery is hooked up even if the resistor is wrong.
> 
> If all that looks ok then check the input pin on the CPU. It should match the output of the hall sensor. If that looks good then the software isn't checking that A/D input or that CPU input has been blown.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks Doug. Things have changed a bit since V9. The battery voltage sensing is now done via A7520 opto-isolated amplifier. pin 2 is input, pin 7 is output. So the tracing procedure you mentioned is almost the same except the specific voltages and A7520 portion. 

BTW if you read the firmware code and PCB layout, the below will become obvious, as well.

Voltages: 
1. Battery voltage goes into the driver board connector and into the voltage divider formed by R9,10,13. Division factor is 2M/2.7k ~ 750x. So battery voltage of 100V would produce 140mV bias on the output of that divider
2. That output is biased by the 68k/2.7k divider fed from a -5V voltage regulator. Per my earlier post, that bias works out to ~ -200mV. This is what you should see between pins 2 and 4 of A7520 when the output of the charger is shorted. Battery voltage of 100V should produce 140mV-200mV=-60mV.
3. That -60mV is then amplified and transferred to the secondary side of the A7520 chip. Gain is ~10x. Gain curve is in the datasheet of the chip - figure 5 on page 9. Basically it produces 2V output when 0V is applied to the input, and close to 0V when -200mV is applied to input. Hence the initial bias of -200mV.

With this knowledge, you can trace the signal from input to the driver board to the input pin of the Arduino that measures the voltage (again, per firmware pin setting section, this is pin_bV=1 - this is analog pin A1 on the pro mini).

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> This is a question to anyone on this forum who has a working EMW charger and knows how to use it (because I don't, yet )
> 
> when switched on the charger asks you for:
> 
> ...


You need to specify 4 cells of 45AH. 

Note that this pack voltage (12V, right?) may be too low for the charger to do calibration. In the manual, we are suggesting to use 30-60V battery for initial calibration and your actual battery pack in your car for the final calibration


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Dougingraham
> 
> Thanks for replying.
> 
> ...


good that you found out. careful with these connections - incorrect connections on high-voltage sensing can have bad consequences. 

For example, if you had your Vovp and Vbop swapped, your PFC stage would not know when to stop pumping up the voltage, would go over 450V capacitor rating and blow up all caps, possibly along with both IGBTs. We had one cap blowing up once (reverse polarity) - it's pretty spectacular. Wear goggles anytime you test with high voltage applied.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> when you connected battery, did the LCD say anything at all?


 
Hi Valery

I think I have the low voltage stage working completely now.

Dougingraham guided me to my mistake (see post)

now I can get right though the low voltage test but when it goes to show me the duty cycle it detects the lack of AC voltage and says "Lost AC input. Exiting in 5 sec..."

I am guessing this is all good.

I want to check what I am supposed to enter in the "Capacity" field in the setup, is that the capacity of 1 cell in the box/pack or the capacity of the whole box/pack?

Should I move onto connecting my 75V box (of 36 cells 5AH, 4 series banks of 9 parallel cells) to the AC Inputs?

Graham


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> good that you found out. careful with these connections - incorrect connections on high-voltage sensing can have bad consequences.
> 
> For example, if you had your Vovp and Vbop swapped, your PFC stage would not know when to stop pumping up the voltage, would go over 450V capacitor rating and blow up all caps, possibly along with both IGBTs. We had one cap blowing up once (reverse polarity) - it's pretty spectacular. Wear goggles anytime you test with high voltage applied.


Hi Valery

Luckily for me I am building the non-PFC version so there were no components populating the Vovp line, this is what led me to my wrong connection.

Looking forward to testing the AC side.

Graham


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> You need to specify 4 cells of 45AH.
> 
> Note that this pack voltage (12V, right?) may be too low for the charger to do calibration. In the manual, we are suggesting to use 30-60V battery for initial calibration and your actual battery pack in your car for the final calibration


Hi Valery

No Sorry I am using 1 of my 3 actual 74v battery boxes. not the 12V 45AH battery.

Each box has 36 cells

each cell is 18.5v @ 5AH, giving a total of 74v in the box

the 45AH comes from the way the box is configured 4 series banks of 9 parallel blocks.

I understand the parallel cells add up in AH's and the series blocks add up in volts.

So AFAIK (Don't forget I am new to all of this)

4 * 18.5V gives 74V in the box
9 * 5AH gives 45AH in the box

So if I want to charge the whole box I would set (once I have completed the testing)

36 cells in the cell count
45AH in the capacity (or 5AH?)

I am using this box to do the calibration so I need to get the capacity bit right I guess before I move on.

Graham


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## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

I have put in an order for a second EMW-12000 charger and 2 of the 100A inductors because most of my fast charging needs are for 48v packs. Could you please include a replacement inductor mount for the one that snapped in shipping last time? I forgot to add the note at the time of ordering. Thanks


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

AmpEater said:


> I have put in an order for a second EMW-12000 charger and 2 of the 100A inductors because most of my fast charging needs are for 48v packs. Could you please include a replacement inductor mount for the one that snapped in shipping last time? I forgot to add the note at the time of ordering. Thanks


Thanks! Will do. Can you tell me which carrier delivered your box and tracking number if any? I want to make sure we avoid a repeat of that if possible.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> No Sorry I am using 1 of my 3 actual 74v battery boxes. not the 12V 45AH battery.
> 
> ...


not quite. # of cells is the number of base lithium cells you have in series. Each of your boxes has multiple cells in series inside to get 18.5V. You need to enter that number times 4. Also, what are you entering as CV?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

question for you guys - how many of you care about isolation? charger isolation, that is... ;-)


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> not quite. # of cells is the number of base lithium cells you have in series. Each of your boxes has multiple cells in series inside to get 18.5V. You need to enter that number times 4. Also, what are you entering as CV?


Hi Valery



Ok, I have 36 Turnigy "5S1P" 18.5V 5AH "cell sticks" in each box (3 boxes in the whole traction pack)
AFAIK "5S1P" means 5 cells in a series stick, so do I multiply the number of cells in the a single "5S1P" stick by the number of sticks in 1 box and enter this number as the cell count.
i.e. 5 * 36 = 180 actual individual cells in 1 box (cell count - option 1) 

Or as they are configured as 4 series banks each with 9 sticks in parallel, would I enter
5 * 4 = 20 cells in each series string in each box (9 of these strings in each box in parallel) (cell count - option 2)

And for the capacity

Would I enter the AH capacity of 1 series string i.e. 5 AH? (AH don’t add in series AFAIK) (capacity - option 1)
Or do I enter 45 AH? (the AH rating for the whole box) 
i.e. 9 parallel sticks (AH do add in parallel AFAIK) 9 * 5 AH = 45AH (capacity - option 2)

Apologies if it appears that I have no idea what I am doing  but that is because I have no idea what I am doing 
And to answer you last question, I have 350 set in the CV cut-off, as this is what it tells me to set in the testing procedure.
I know I should probably know this, but I don’t know what CV cut-off is or does!
I have read the "Quick Start Guide" but it appears to assume that you know how to use an EV charger and are familiar with the EV charging terminology.

As yet I am not.

Yours Sincerely

Graham Martin


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> question for you guys - how many of you care about isolation? charger isolation, that is... ;-)


Hi again Valery

I do, only because I would love to become a UK seller of your charger but unless it is isolated I would have a very hard time doing this legally.

If you do develop a fully galvanically isolated version as a kit that resellers could build localy and resell, I would be very interested in the full PFC, fully isolated version.

Graham


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## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

sexstrap said:


> I do, only because I would love to become a UK seller of your charger but unless it is isolated I would have a very hard time doing this legally.


I bet this is some kind of misunderstanding of what the legislation really says.

IMHO, charger isolation is a joke and may cause false sense of security. 

What really is important is isolating the battery pack and the whole HV side within norms. This is equally important even if the charger is isolated.

The only exception would be low-voltage systems (usually < 100V) so that there is no HV to be isolated. Then, an isolating charger is a viable option.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Siwastaja said:


> I bet this is some kind of misunderstanding of what the legislation really says.
> 
> IMHO, charger isolation is a joke and may cause false sense of security.
> 
> ...


Hi Siwastaja

you may well be right I am only going on the advice of others.

I was recently advised that:-

"I think you may have trouble marketing that charger in the EU – it’s very difficult these days dealing in any power electronics that doesn’t have full certification, and from what I can see this charger has a long way to go to meet all the requirements. It cost over £25000 to get even the Soliton through EU testing. Also liability for a device connected to an expensive pack is a nightmare!"

I hope this is wrong but I am of the opinion that this person knows what they are talking about.

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> I bet this is some kind of misunderstanding of what the legislation really says.
> 
> IMHO, charger isolation is a joke and may cause false sense of security.
> 
> ...


I generally agree BUT all the production cars are testing for mains isolation so if we hope to use our chargers in those (and we do), we need isolation. 

For conversions, less of a need as you control how you build your system.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

I have branched out the isolated stage discussion to a separate thread - http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/open-source-isolated-12kw-charger-89311.html

Please comment there on isolation-specific issues. There are some tech notes there already.

Thanks,
V


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> not quite. # of cells is the number of base lithium cells you have in series. Each of your boxes has multiple cells in series inside to get 18.5V. You need to enter that number times 4. Also, what are you entering as CV?


Hi Valery

Just ran my charger low voltage test with 3.5V CV cut off, 20 "Series" cells @ 45AH , the parameters screen shows in 1V, 10A in, 10A out, timeout 0 min.

it then cycles through 2 screens one with Type 1 CX=10 and the other Type 2 CX=70 as the first line off settings and ends up on the Charging complete screen 0AH in, I don't see the duty display

Am I at least getting my cell count and capacity figures right now for the pack I am using?

When calibrating the battery it detects the pack as 71 volts (70 volts the first time I did it)

Graham


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> Just ran my charger low voltage test with 3.5V CV cut off, 20 "Series" cells @ 45AH , the parameters screen shows in 1V, 10A in, 10A out, timeout 0 min.
> 
> ...


Looks like your pack voltage is higher than 3.5*20=70... That's why the charger thinks they are fully charged already


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Looks like your pack voltage is higher than 3.5*20=70... That's why the charger thinks they are fully charged already


Hi Valery

So I tried increasing the CV cuttoff to 3.6 as 3.6 * 20 = 72 as the calibration step seems to detect the voltage as being 71v despite me telling it that it is actually at 75v (measured) this made no difference

Tried again with CV cuttoff at 3.7 (3.7*20=74) this time it sensed the pack voltage at 70 again but still no change, still don't see the duty display.

and again with CV cuttoff at 3.8 (3.8*20=76) this is definitely above my measured pack voltage and it sensed 71v again, but YEY  this time I did see the duty display albeit very briefly before it goes to "Lost AC input exiting in 5 sec"

would I be right in thinking that this is working as expected, is the "Lost AC input" expected considering I am still at the first stage of testing (low voltage) with no AC connected (it does not lie!)

Do you think I can move onto connecting the battery to the AC input?

Graham


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> So I tried increasing the CV cuttoff to 3.6 as 3.6 * 20 = 72 as the calibration step seems to detect the voltage as being 71v despite me telling it that it is actually at 75v (measured) this made no difference
> 
> ...


Yes, I think you're safe now. 

On the calibration issue, I'd like you to snap some photos of your calibration steps (better yet, a video) and post here. Something is off but shouldn't be threatening.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Valery,

I connected the bms to the charger and it ran with the V12 code, and displayed both heat sink and "T2" temperatures, but the T2 temp reading was high, like 80C and fluctuating, while the inductor was still at room temperature. The charger posted a message that it was over heated. I am using one of the 100k thermistors from the V9 BOM (317-1264-ND), one side wired to T2 (4th pin from top of the 5 pin connector, next to "Temp"), the other spliced into the same ground wire I am using for the other thermistor on the heat sink - that temperature is reading fine. I thought maybe it was picking up EMI from the inductor fields so I pulled it off and set it on a grounded metal part, but it made no difference. Any ideas? How do you mount thermistors on the inductor?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*

Hello Valery,

can't find the answer anywhere. At what temperature should the fan control turn the fans on? I am running now at >60˚C, but fans are still not on.

Connected small 12V relay coil between FAN pin and ground, power contacts feed the positive to fans.

Please advise, thanks.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*EMW charger test at 7500W output*

*9/21/13 *Test of EMW charger with two 150 cfm "puller" fans mounted on back. 

*Settings: *Input I = 40A, output I = 70A

*EMW readings while charging:*
Vout = 122V
58.6A < Iout < 64.4A
Duty Cycle: 34.2% – 34.4%
Initial T = 21 C
Final T = 42 C
Run Time: 45 min
Ah in: 46

*EKM meter *(on AC to charger):
V = 233V
33.7A < I < 36.4A
7754W < P < 8493W
Power factor line 1 = Power Factor line 2 = 1.00

*TBS Gauge* (V, I into battery pack, shunt on ground side of pack)
V = 121.7
58.6 < I < 64.3A
Ah in: 46

*Comments:*
The charger was run with the cover on. It was removed to take inductor temperature readings, then replaced.
The added fans had a much larger effect on output inductor temperature than heat sink temperature.
Average input current 35A, average output current 61A, average input power 8123W, average output power 7442W, efficiency 92%.
Ambient temperature was 21C. 

Time (min) Output Ind T (C) Heat sink T (C)
0 21
6 39
8 41 41
15 47 41
30 43 42
40 44 42

The heat sink was running about 21C above ambient, output inductor about 23C above ambient. Thermal cutback occurs at 48 C heat sink temperature (for 100A unit), so would occur at about 27C or 80F for these conditions. A Summer temperature of 98F or 37C is common in which case maximum output power would be significantly lower. Looks like water cooling and two 150 cfm fans on the back to cool the output inductor would be required for this charger to possibly put out 10 - 12kW into a 120V pack at 37C ambient. Higher cfm fans on the front would help quit a bit, but it would be tight to try and fit them inside (they are 38mm thick). 

I may try mounting two more 150 cfm fans on the front outside and remove the 70 cfm ones, but not this year. It's getting cooler so it will run ok, and I've spent enough time on it. 

I did not get the T2 reading to work. It always shows very high temperature and fluctuates regardless of where I put the thermistor in the unit - and right from the start, before the charger is putting out any power. Thermistor resistance is ok and there is continuity through it from one Pololu socket to the other, so I don't know what the issue is. Edit: I also checked and continuity is good from the Pololu socket for T2 to the A4 pin on the Arduino.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



george7g said:


> Hello Valery,
> 
> can't find the answer anywhere. At what temperature should the fan control turn the fans on? I am running now at >60˚C, but fans are still not on.
> 
> ...


//

------------- THERMAL DERATING OF CHARGER 
// for now, simple protection by pausing charger until cooldown to certain temp
// note that heatSink temp at the point of measurement is generally 20-30 deg C LOWER than temperature 
// of critical components attached to heatsink (due to distance from components to probe)
// use maxHeatSinkT of <60 to ensure <85 deg C temp of components
// this assumes thermistor placement near the heat generating components
// BTW, modest airflow (120mm PC fan) with a large (8x10x3" heatsink should be sufficient for 
// up to 30A output at max power 
#ifndef MCC100A
const int maxHeatSinkT=55; // in Centigrades - will start derating here
#else
const int maxHeatSinkT=47; // more aggressive derating at high current output
#endif
const int ABSmaxHeatSinkT=85; // in Centigrades - will stop the charger altogether here
i*nt midHeatSinkT=45; // turn on the fans here*; also wait until cool down to this temp before resuming at the prev power level 
int lowHeatSinkT=35; // turn off the fans here 
const int MAXFANDUTY=160; // with 15.5V supply, do not send more than 10V to the fan = 60-65% duty
int fanduty=0;


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*J1772*

Btw, I never did get the EMW charger to work with J1772. I prematurely stated that I did. I connected a diode to a 827 Ohm resistor and connected these across the pilot and ground pins of the J1772, and it turned on the EVSE. I assumed they would work when soldered in the Control board. They do not. I get the same “Venting Required” error.

I put a jumper between the pilot and ground pins on the J1772 connector on the car, and measured resistance between the J1772 and G (ground) sockets in the Pololu connector on the 7 pin header under the Arduino and got less than 1 Ohm. So I have good continuity to there from the pilot and ground pins on the J1772 connector. I repeated the measurement with the jumper removed and got 6.28 MOhm (the high resistance of the diode due to low test current). I then moved the probes to the leg of the diode soldered to the board at the J1772 pin and the leg of the resistor soldered to the ground plane of the board and got the same resistance. So continuity is good from the J1772 connector to the components on the board. The problem is in the board. 

As explained previously I have a box with a diode and resistor in it mounted near the charger and connected to the same pilot and ground wires from the J1772 connector through a switch (so I can disconnect them when using the EMW and use the circuitry on the EMW Control board instead). It turns on the EVSE fine with no errors. The problem is with the EMW.

Pin D7 of the Arduino is connected to the node at the resistor-diode connection point. My best guess is that the Arduino is causing the error, possibly by pulling down the voltage from the EVSE. I haven’t found any info on that pin, so have no idea if this is plausible. I could test this by de-soldering the leg of the diode and leg of the resistor from this node on the board and just connecting them without contact to the board, but it is easier to just cut the wires in the cable (I still need the cable for BMS input) and use the separate resistor-diode box to turn on the EVSE. I’ve wasted enough time on it.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772*



tomofreno said:


> Btw, I never did get the EMW charger to work with J1772. I prematurely stated that I did. I connected a diode to a 827 Ohm resistor and connected these across the pilot and ground pins of the J1772, and it turned on the EVSE. I assumed they would work when soldered in the Control board. They do not. I get the same “Venting Required” error.


Same here Tom,

I thought that I am doing something wrong, wasted so much time on it too. Tried 720Ω resistor which read about the same voltage drop as J1772 circuitry shows, still did not work. You are just confirming that there is apparently some error in the board wiring - notice that J1772 traces are still connected to other circuits on the control board which surely affects the behavior.

My recommended (and proven by me) solution is very simple: 
Solder diode cathode side directly to 820Ω resistor (860Ω will do too) in series and solder this directly between PILOT and GND pins of the J1772 socket cable. Resistor and cathode on ground side, no switch needed. One could also place it directly inside the J1772 socket. This solution is based on: http://modularevpower.com/J1772_2012.htm.

This way it is completely separate from EWM charger and works like a charm, charged with it more than ~20 times by now on my company's ChargePoint.

Guarantee it will work.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Yes, I think you're safe now.
> 
> On the calibration issue, I'd like you to snap some photos of your calibration steps (better yet, a video) and post here. Something is off but shouldn't be threatening.


Hi Valery

I proceeded to HV testing and things were looking good.
Connecting my 75v DC 45AH battery to the AC inputs went well.
All measurements checked out fine.
Apart from the spark upon connection which scared the S#!t out of me (even though I was expecting it)
moved on to the full AC test and this also went well (initially).
Input voltage was around 288V (correct for 240Vac I think, RMS?)
Input current was set at 10A in and out as in the notes
Output voltage was still at zero as expected

started the charger and the dummy load lamps (2x60w incandescent bulbs in series) lit as it entered the CV stage with an audible click then I got the duty screen, however when the values started to change the display problem (not clearing screen as values change) reared again, I had been working around this with clrscreen statements.

As I could not see the readings without this being fixed I pulled the plug (Bad Idea?) and disconnected the load as in the instructions.

I need to fix the display refresh issue before I can move on.
When I plugged in AC power a second time the dummy load lit immediately!
And trying to repeat the test it responded differently, it just showed the Type 1 & 2 screens and then says charging complete without showing the duty screen 
I tried disconnecting the dummy load and powering on this tripped my circuit breaker!

I then tried switching it back on (load connected again and it lit up again) and seeing if I could cancel the charge somehow, whilst going through the menus I heard a snap and saw a whiff of smoke, powered off immediately.
smell check narrowed it down to the driver board I think (defiantly not control board) no obvious burn signs, so I guess it is back to low voltage testing again? 

low voltage test failed, now it wont even power up, the only life I get is two flashing lights on arduino red green in quick succession and nothing else LCD is blank.

removed driver board quickly and checked over the board with my nose trying to identify which component had fried and my top lip revealed that U4 was red hot, so I am guessing this is fried and possibly the A3120 as well (you mentioned when these go they go together)

considering the "charge stuck on" issue I was getting after powering off during the ramping phase of the AC connected 1st run test, can you suggest what may be causing this behaviour and if it may have also caused the failure? 

Graham

P.S. Just placed an order at digikey for a replacement DC-DC (U4) and a few other bits for the next charger build, enough to get free delivery.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

One mystery solved I think. I checked through the code, and under "Temperature sensor block" I noticed a constant for a 100k "divider" resistor. The Control board schematic shows a 100k connected to Vcc to form a resistive voltage divider with the thermistor for "Temp" the heat sink temperature. It does not show a second such circuit for T2 (at least the schematic I have). 

I checked the BOM for V9 (what I used) and there is only one 100k resistor listed, R48, which is the one for "Temp". I also checked the build notes, and they instruct to install R48, 100k, but there is no mention of R33, which is shown right next to R48 in the PCB Express file for the Control board (both my older version and V12). 

I pulled the cover off the charger, and there is only one resistor at the location on the Control board where R48 and R33 are supposed to be. 
The PCB Express file for my older board shows both R33 and R48 but does not show the connections from them to "Temp" and "T2". The file for V12 does however. Seems pretty clear that R33 was never installed, and that is why despite having good continuity from the "T2" thermistor to the Arduino, the readings are bonkers because there is no connection to Vcc through R33. I'll have to get a 100k, remove the Control board yet again, and install it.

Now if I can just figure out why the J1772 doesn't work...


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Valery,

It appears that if you are using the charger set up for max 100A output (#define MCC100A), and want to use T2, you will also have to go to "Temperature readout functions" in the code and change 0.65 = 55C/85C to 0.55 = 47C/85C because thermal cutback starts at 47C if you define MCC100A. Otherwise the output inductor will be permitted to go to only 72C rather than 85C. Is this correct, or is this already done somewhere else in the code using MCC100A? I didn't see it anywhere. Actually I guess it should be set up as an ifdef MCC100A under the ifdef IND_Temp.

I like having T2 since the charger triggers thermal cutback if the heat sink OR output inductor get too hot.

EDIT: I changed the code to:
//====================== temperature readout functions ===========================
// compute the equivalent (normalized) charger temp
float getNormT(float hST, float t2) {
// assume max sink T is 55 (47 if define MCC100A), max t2 (inductor) is 85 - approx but reasonably close to reality
// therefore need to rescale t2 by 55/85=0.65 (or 47/85 = 0.55 if define MCC100A).
// BUT ONLY IF WE HAVE THIS SECONDARY MEASUREMENT
#ifdef MCC100A
float proportion1 = 0.55;
#else
float proportion1 = 0.65;
#endif
#ifdef IND_Temp
return max(hST, t2*proportion1);
#else
return hST;
#endif
}


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772*

*AND NOW FOR THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION!!*

This diode and resistor connected between the J1772 pilot and ground pins:








turn on power in the EVSE:








The same diode and resistor, soldered into the EMW V10 Control board, with the cathode of the diode toward the resistor as in the above test, and C50 (cap to ground from the diode/resistor node) removed to make things simple (and continuity good between the J1772 pin and ground pin on the 7 pin connector):








When connected between the J1772 pilot and ground pins:








give this result:







*
WHY???
*This is the third diode I have had in the board. The last one I removed checked ok with a diode tester after removal.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Valery,
> 
> It appears that if you are using the charger set up for max 100A output (#define MCC100A), and want to use T2, you will also have to go to "Temperature readout functions" in the code and change 0.65 = 55C/85C to 0.55 = 47C/85C because thermal cutback starts at 47C if you define MCC100A. Otherwise the output inductor will be permitted to go to only 72C rather than 85C. Is this correct, or is this already done somewhere else in the code using MCC100A? I didn't see it anywhere. Actually I guess it should be set up as an ifdef MCC100A under the ifdef IND_Temp.
> 
> ...


Good catch Tom! Will incorporate in the code on our side, too!

Re J1772 - we are investigating this now as it seems to be affecting several kit builds now.

Thanks,
Valery/


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



george7g said:


> Hello Valery,
> 
> can't find the answer anywhere. At what temperature should the fan control turn the fans on? I am running now at >60˚C, but fans are still not on.
> 
> ...


Hi George - I suggest you power the fans directly from the 12V power supply in the charger.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772*



george7g said:


> Same here Tom,
> 
> I thought that I am doing something wrong, wasted so much time on it too. Tried 720Ω resistor which read about the same voltage drop as J1772 circuitry shows, still did not work. You are just confirming that there is apparently some error in the board wiring - notice that J1772 traces are still connected to other circuits on the control board which surely affects the behavior.
> 
> ...



Hi Guys - we are looking into this now as this behavior is indeed very bizarre - especially as you are confirming that you see the correct voltage drop when connected to the unit... 

BTW the only thing J1772 pilot is connected to beyond diode and resistor is a D7 pin on Arduino. As that pin is set to 'INPUT' mode in setup() function, it is supposed to have 20kOhm+ impedance and have no effect on the circuit operation.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> One mystery solved I think. I checked through the code, and under "Temperature sensor block" I noticed a constant for a 100k "divider" resistor. The Control board schematic shows a 100k connected to Vcc to form a resistive voltage divider with the thermistor for "Temp" the heat sink temperature. It does not show a second such circuit for T2 (at least the schematic I have).
> 
> I checked the BOM for V9 (what I used) and there is only one 100k resistor listed, R48, which is the one for "Temp". I also checked the build notes, and they instruct to install R48, 100k, but there is no mention of R33, which is shown right next to R48 in the PCB Express file for the Control board (both my older version and V12).
> 
> ...


You're right, Tom - sorry for not getting to reply to you quicker. As the inductor temp reading was just introduced and it's optional, the instructions do not call for populating these.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I proceeded to HV testing and things were looking good.
> Connecting my 75v DC 45AH battery to the AC inputs went well.
> ...


Hi Graham - 

looks like the output IGBT failed, taking part of the driver circuit with it. Sorry to hear. Hard to debug remotely - best thing is to send pics / video of the charger with all connections visible. We had something like this happen once when we forgot to solder together the G2 & E2 terminals of the output IGBT. In that case, there is no freewheel diode in the circuit and at any real power level, IGBT gets a large voltage spike that fries it. 

Again, just a hypothesis. 

Regardless of the reason, you probably need IGBT, A3120, and a DC/DC.

To test IGBT, measure resistance / voltage drop between all main terminals. If any of those measurements read 0 Ohm or 0 Volts, the IGBT needs to be replaced.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772*



valerun said:


> Hi Guys - we are looking into this now as this behavior is indeed very bizarre - especially as you are confirming that you see the correct voltage drop when connected to the unit...
> 
> BTW the only thing J1772 pilot is connected to beyond diode and resistor is a D7 pin on Arduino. As that pin is set to 'INPUT' mode in setup() function, it is supposed to have 20kOhm+ impedance and have no effect on the circuit operation.


Damn, I think I know what it is! The Arduino chip has input protection on pins that clamps the pin to close to Vcc (5V). The actual clamping voltage would be somewhere between 5.2 and 5.4V. This is close enough to the 6V spec'ed for J1772 as a normal 'power state' but apparently some (many?) EVSEs interpret this as the next state down ('ventilated power required') which has a nominal pilot voltage of just 3V?

Can one or both of you measure the voltage on the D7 pin when you connect the J1772 cable? We will definitely measure it on our unit but I am suspecting that your unit might have different behavior given that you have used a 1.3kOhm resistor in the beginning - which might have resulted in 7-8V on the D7 and potentially damage the pin.

Let me know what you find.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772*



valerun said:


> Damn, I think I know what it is! The Arduino chip has input protection on pins that clamps the pin to close to Vcc (5V). The actual clamping voltage would be somewhere between 5.2 and 5.4V. This is close enough to the 6V spec'ed for J1772 as a normal 'power state' but apparently some (many?) EVSEs interpret this as the next state down ('ventilated power required') which has a nominal pilot voltage of just 3V?
> 
> Can one or both of you measure the voltage on the D7 pin when you connect the J1772 cable? We will definitely measure it on our unit but I am suspecting that your unit might have different behavior given that you have used a 1.3kOhm resistor in the beginning - which might have resulted in 7-8V on the D7 and potentially damage the pin.
> 
> Let me know what you find.


 I used a 1k in the beginning, not 1.3k.

I de-soldered both the diode and pin from the board node to which Arduino pin D7 is connected, and soldered that diode leg directly to the resistor leg with no board connection (basically like having them in a separate box):








They are below the arduino, in front of the 7 pin connector. That works, confirming the problem is with pin D7.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> You're right, Tom - sorry for not getting to reply to you quicker. As the inductor temp reading was just introduced and it's optional, the instructions do not call for populating these.


 Yep, with R33 in place (and the code changes I mentioned above):


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772*



valerun said:


> Damn, I think I know what it is! The Arduino chip has input protection on pins that clamps the pin to close to Vcc (5V). The actual clamping voltage would be somewhere between 5.2 and 5.4V. This is close enough to the 6V spec'ed for J1772 as a normal 'power state' but apparently some (many?) EVSEs interpret this as the next state down ('ventilated power required') which has a nominal pilot voltage of just 3V?
> 
> Can one or both of you measure the voltage on the D7 pin when you connect the J1772 cable? We will definitely measure it on our unit but I am suspecting that your unit might have different behavior given that you have used a 1.3kOhm resistor in the beginning - which might have resulted in 7-8V on the D7 and potentially damage the pin.
> 
> Let me know what you find.


 I measure a bit over 2V relative to Control board ground while charging at the conditions given in the screen shot in post 1490. That is with nothing connected to pin D7.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772*



tomofreno said:


> I measure a bit over 2V relative to Control board ground while charging at the conditions given in the above screen shot.


thx. that's with nothing connected to the pin? this is probably ok. the question is what voltage it's pulling the input down to when connected. We will measure this today, as well.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: J1772*



valerun said:


> thx. that's with nothing connected to the pin? this is probably ok. the question is what voltage it's pulling the input down to when connected. We will measure this today, as well.


 Well, 2V < 3V that signals venting required, and it can only go lower when it is connected to the 1k resistor to ground, correct?

Charger is working well now with the exception of communication with an EVSE - which I have not needed so far anyway. I charged at ~55ADC yesterday and when it reached the CC/CV point of ~125V it went into Type2 and slowly cut back current while holding 123 - 124V, and stopped charging when the current reached 9A (0.05C) as it should. Output inductor temp is working, and it turns on an EVSE, so doing everything I need for now. Thanks for your help Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772*



tomofreno said:


> Well, 2V < 3V that signals venting required, and it can only go lower when it is connected to the 1k resistor to ground, correct?
> 
> Charger is working well now with the exception of communication with an EVSE - which I have not needed so far anyway. I charged at ~55ADC yesterday and when it reached the CC/CV point of ~125V it went into Type2 and slowly cut back current while holding 123 - 124V, and stopped charging when the current reached 9A (0.05C) as it should. Output inductor temp is working, and it turns on an EVSE, so doing everything I need for now. Thanks for your help Valery.


awesome!

re D7: you are right BUT there is a positive voltage supplied from EVSE through that diode so D7 CAN go beyond 2V unconnected voltage. Will test and report. 

But it's pretty clear that we need to add a ~10k resistor in series with D7 pin to the board so that D7 does not shunt the J pilot signal. Will update the manual with the workaround for now and will fix in the next run. 

I think what tripped us here is that not every EVSE throws an error on this so in our initial tests this just slipped through...


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



valerun said:


> Hi George - I suggest you power the fans directly from the 12V power supply in the charger.


I am going to put 40˚C "NO" snap thermostat directly on the inductor to control the fan. Closes at 40˚C, opens at 30˚C.

That way I am going to bypass non-working built-in fan control on the Ctrl Bd as you suggest, but still running the fans only as needed.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772*



valerun said:


> awesome!
> 
> re D7: you are right BUT there is a positive voltage supplied from EVSE through that diode so D7 CAN go beyond 2V unconnected voltage. Will test and report.
> 
> ...


Why adding another part which increases complexity?

Why not just keep a single resistor 820-860Ω + diode completely isolated from the rest of the Ctrl Bd circuits? Keep it simple.

It works, I have tested it - see my earlier post.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



george7g said:


> I am going to put 40˚C "NO" snap thermostat directly on the inductor to control the fan. Closes at 40˚C, opens at 30˚C.
> 
> That way I am going to bypass non-working built-in fan control on the Ctrl Bd as you suggest, but still running the fans only as needed.


Built-in fan control works but you may need to put additional parts in as the variable fan control has been made optional ~6 months ago. 

pin D8 feeds into the NPN or N-FET S9 (ID not shown on board as it's optional) and then goes into 'Fan' pin on the connector below Arduino. You also need to have D1 populated to avoid voltage kickback (ID not shown on board).

If you use N2222 for S9, you will need to add a relay to drive fans. If using a FET, ok to drive directly. In either case, you would connect the other end of the fan / relay to +12V supply. S9 pulls 'Fan' pin down to ground when activated.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: J1772*



george7g said:


> Why adding another part which increases complexity?
> 
> Why not just keep a single resistor 820-860Ω + diode completely isolated from the rest of the Ctrl Bd circuits? Keep it simple.
> 
> It works, I have tested it - see my earlier post.


To get J1772 current sensing and automatic limit of the input current depending on the pilot signal. You can see this in the firmware.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Hi Graham -
> 
> looks like the output IGBT failed, taking part of the driver circuit with it. Sorry to hear. Hard to debug remotely - best thing is to send pics / video of the charger with all connections visible. We had something like this happen once when we forgot to solder together the G2 & E2 terminals of the output IGBT. In that case, there is no freewheel diode in the circuit and at any real power level, IGBT gets a large voltage spike that fries it.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

there is a good set of photos on my blog, link below.

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/emw-charger-testing-final-chapter-i-hope.html

I have just checked and the large capacitor is definitely wired with the red to the positive side (large yellow cover over the connections in older photos below)

These photos were taken prior to completion

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/last-few-weeksdays-now.html

I have attempted to measure resistance between IGBT terminals and I am getting odd results, the value is not stable and either rises or falls on a depending on the polarity of the dvm connections

I am definitely getting a dead short between the ind2 connection and C1

Can I measure the resistance as you suggest with the IBGT in situ or will I get false readings?

can you see if I have made any other glaring errors with the HV wiring that could have caused the IBGT to fail?

And can you give me the digikey or other part number for the IGBT

(I guess the IGBT's are not cheap parts to replace!)

Graham


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



valerun said:


> Built-in fan control works but you may need to put additional parts in as the variable fan control has been made optional ~6 months ago.
> 
> pin D8 feeds into the NPN or N-FET S9 (ID not shown on board as it's optional) and then goes into 'Fan' pin on the connector below Arduino. You also need to have D1 populated to avoid voltage kickback (ID not shown on board).
> 
> If you use N2222 for S9, you will need to add a relay to drive fans. If using a FET, ok to drive directly. In either case, you would connect the other end of the fan / relay to +12V supply. S9 pulls 'Fan' pin down to ground when activated.


I tried to do just that, connected small 12V relay to FAN pin (from S2, my bd. is Rev 10) and ground, but it did not work up to 60˚C and I did not want to cook it further without the fan.

I think I do not need variable fan speed, plain "on when over 40˚C" and "off below 30˚C" will work fine for me I gather. Will see how simple snap thermostat mounted on inductor works when I install it.

BTW, which inductor is hotter when the charger runs? The output one (IND2)?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



valerun said:


> ...If you use N2222 for S9, you will need to add a relay to drive fans. If using a FET, ok to drive directly. In either case, you would connect the other end of the fan / relay to +12V supply. S9 pulls 'Fan' pin down to ground when activated.


 This is what I was thinking of doing for the two 150 cfm fans I added. I plan to just replace the present 12V/4A supply in the charger with this new 12V/9A one. I could just let the fans run as long as the charger is plugged in, but thought it would be nice to be able to turn them off when not needed - like in colder weather and/or running low charge current. Original fans would remain on.

Any issues with replacing the 12V supply? It is supposed to be a good quality UL listed supply. Seems I can just unplug the old and plug in the new. The 9A should be more than enough for everything I think. 

I likely will just connect them to 12V directly now, and look into using the FET output if/when you come up with a work around for the J1772. I'm in no hurry to remove the control board again. Would be nice to get both done at the same time.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



george7g said:


> ...BTW, which inductor is hotter when the charger runs? The output one (IND2)?


Yes the output.


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*

I have a V10 control board, and it appears that Arduino D8 is connected to S2 through R26. There is no diode as shown on the V12 board (is that the D1 you mentioned?), though it appears I could just solder one to the center and bottom legs of S2. Is S2 the same as the S9 you mention on the newer boards? Maybe I should just connect the fans direct.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



tomofreno said:


> Yes the output.


Ok then. 

Forget the Ctrl Bd circuit, 40˚C NO snap thermostat to control the fans will do for me.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: J1772*



valerun said:


> To get J1772 current sensing and automatic limit of the input current depending on the pilot signal. You can see this in the firmware.


I see, now I understand. 

Well, until that part is figured out, I'll keep it inside my cord, the way it works.

Thanks for explanation.


----------



## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



george7g said:


> I tried to do just that, connected small 12V relay to FAN pin (from S2, my bd. is Rev 10) and ground, but it did not work up to 60˚C and I did not want to cook it further without the fan.
> 
> I think I do not need variable fan speed, plain "on when over 40˚C" and "off below 30˚C" will work fine for me I gather. Will see how simple snap thermostat mounted on inductor works when I install it.
> 
> BTW, which inductor is hotter when the charger runs? The output one (IND2)?


George,

I am brand new here, but I have read all 1500+ posts. I think I understand that the FAN pin "pulls" down to ground when active so the other side of your relay coil needed to go to +12V.

respectfully,
John


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



John N said:


> George,
> 
> I am brand new here, but I have read all 1500+ posts. I think I understand that the FAN pin "pulls" down to ground when active so the other side of your relay coil needed to go to +12V.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarification John. 

It is little counter intuitive, but I'll try it when I have a chance next week.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



tomofreno said:


> This is what I was thinking of doing for the two 150 cfm fans I added. I plan to just replace the present 12V/4A supply in the charger with this new 12V/9A one. I could just let the fans run as long as the charger is plugged in, but thought it would be nice to be able to turn them off when not needed - like in colder weather and/or running low charge current. Original fans would remain on.
> 
> Any issues with replacing the 12V supply? It is supposed to be a good quality UL listed supply. Seems I can just unplug the old and plug in the new. The 9A should be more than enough for everything I think.
> 
> I likely will just connect them to 12V directly now, and look into using the FET output if/when you come up with a work around for the J1772. I'm in no hurry to remove the control board again. Would be nice to get both done at the same time.


no issues with replacing the supply as long as it is producing steady 12V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



tomofreno said:


> Yes the output.


depends on the battery voltage. Heating is proportional to RMS current. If your battery voltage is higher than 240V, your PFC inductor (Ind1) will heat up more than Ind2. And vice versa


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> there is a good set of photos on my blog, link below.
> 
> ...



dead short between Ind and C1 = blown IGBT. sorry. Can you confirm that you had the G2 & E2 soldered together (i.e. shorted to each other)?


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Fan Control trigger temperature - ON temp? OFF temp?*



valerun said:


> depends on the battery voltage. Heating is proportional to RMS current. If your battery voltage is higher than 240V, your PFC inductor (Ind1) will heat up more than Ind2. And vice versa


I am using 76x cells, so that means I am way over 240V. So I will put my fan control snap thermostat on Ind1 then.

Or alternately, I can put one on each and connect them in parallel.

Thanks for clear answer Valery.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> dead short between Ind and C1 = blown IGBT. sorry. Can you confirm that you had the G2 & E2 soldered together (i.e. shorted to each other)?


Yes G2 & E2 Shorted by directly soldering the contacts on the IGBT, the two connections (G2 & E2) on the HV power board are unused, they appear to be connected to each other but I thought the instructions referred to not using these PCB connections at all and instead directly joining the G2 & E2 pins on the IGBT?

can I also assume that the blue film capacitors are not polarised? (can go any way round, I ask as the PCB has +ve and -ve printed on just one of the film caps placeholders on the screen print)

Does anything look wrong on my HV wiring?

Pictures in previous post (on blog)

and have you got the part number for the IGBT so I can order another? it is not in the BOM just says "EMW to supply"

Graham


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Yes G2 & E2 Shorted by directly soldering the contacts on the IGBT, the two connections (G2 & E2) on the HV power board are unused, they appear to be connected to each other but I thought the instructions referred to not using these PCB connections at all and instead directly joining the G2 & E2 pins on the IGBT?
> 
> can I also assume that the blue film capacitors are not polarised? (can go any way round, I ask as the PCB has +ve and -ve printed on just one of the film caps placeholders on the screen print)
> 
> ...


yes, film caps are not polarized

HV wiring looks ok on pics but it's hard to judge remotely - esp when it concerns things like clearances between board traces and IGBT terminals on the bottom of the board, etc.

have a question on one of your statements from prev posts:
------
Started the charger and the dummy load lamps (2x60w incandescent bulbs in series) lit up as it entered the CV stage with an audible click then I got the duty screen, however when the values started to change the display problem (not clearing screen as values change) reared its ugly head again, I had been working around this with clrscreen statements.
------
did the lamps GRADUALLY lit up BEFORE it went from CC into the CV mode? Or abruptly from zero to full brightness? When exactly did you hear a click?

The IGBTs are sourced from Semikron directly now in bulk - I'm not sure they even sell them through DigiKey. Current part number is SKM195GB066D. You can see more info at http://www.sindopower.com/en/Produc...=search&searchparam=SKM195GB066D&cur=1&lang=1.

Valery.


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Shot IGBT*



valerun said:


> ... did the lamps GRADUALLY lit up BEFORE it went from CC into the CV mode? Or abruptly from zero to full brightness? When exactly did you hear a click?
> 
> The IGBTs are sourced from Semikron directly now in bulk - I'm not sure they even sell them through DigiKey. Current part number is SKM195GB066D. You can see more info at http://www.sindopower.com/en/Produc...=search&searchparam=SKM195GB066D&cur=1&lang=1.
> 
> Valery.


It appears that there are few of us who managed to fry DC/DC inverter ($8) -> IGBT driver ($4) -> IGBT (>$100) which is not a cheap mistake to make.

Just curious, since we all are more or less DYI tinkerers, would it be possible to put some kind of protection in this chain so when I fry the inverter and IGBT driver, it will still protect IGBT?

I am sure many future builders would appreciate it.


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> yes, film caps are not polarized
> 
> HV wiring looks ok on pics but it's hard to judge remotely - esp when it concerns things like clearances between board traces and IGBT terminals on the bottom of the board, etc.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

Thanks for responding.

The lamps lit abruptly with the click as it entered CV mode (type 2 screen?)
basicaly the lamps did not lite up until the Type 1 screen (CC Mode?) vanished and the Type 2 screen (CV Mode?) appeared then it clicked and the lamps lit at full brightness straight away.
I pulled the plug less than 10 seconds later as I realised that I could not read the display (another problem that I need to fix first)
Being plugged into AC 220v mains with no way of reading the display I switched off.
Kicking myself now for turning on again to try and clear the problem which I assumed was a software issue and needed a reset, I thought by repeating the test the CC Mode would switch off the IGBT it didnt instead it blew! 
Where can I get the IGBT's (I need 2 now for the 2 chargers I am building) from the link you provided? is there a UK/European supplier of IGBT's that would be useable?
alternatively can you quote me for a couple?
from your link they are £63.00 each! as you buy them in bulk can you provide them cheaper than me buying from Semikron?
Also the ones on your link above appear to only have 2 connections, how would I join the G2 & E2 connections as they dont appear to be present in the image on the SKM195GB066D? are they joined internally?
My measurements to identify if the IGBT was dead were taken with the IGBT in situ should I to remove it to test it properly?

also I will need to identify what caused the IGBT failiure as I dont want to replace and blow another one!

but before I go anywhere near this I will have to fix the display refresh issue any ideas what might be causing this? (wrong Timer1 library perhaps? dont forget I got this from arduio's page directly as I could not find it on your ftp space)

Graham


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> Thanks for responding.
> 
> ...


Graham - thanks for a detailed report. 

Don't kick yourself for plugging it back in - based on your report, the failure happened at the same time it 'clicked' as it was going into the CV. 

Also, the way it usually goes is IGBT fails *first*, shorting internally. This usually puts high voltage between Gate and Emitter which in turn blow the driver and the DC/DC converter. Because we are using isolation for driver circuits, the damage stops there. The isolation was put in specifically for that purpose - in the classic driver design, these would not be isolated and as a result failure of such type would blow up the whole supply, including the Arduino, 12V power supply, etc. 

Again, it's hard to debug these remotely. An intermittent short between the board and IGBT could easily do this but I can't see the underside of your board, etc. 

A couple more questions on your failure sequence:
1. did the lamps light up at all before the charger switched into the CV stage? 
2. Did you see the duty cycle ramp up at all in the CC step?

Thanks,
V


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Graham - thanks for a detailed report.
> 
> Don't kick yourself for plugging it back in - based on your report, the failure happened at the same time it 'clicked' as it was going into the CV.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

1. No the lamps did not light before the charger switched to the CV stage (only after the click which I assume is the CV stage kicking in?)

2. No I only saw the duty screen after the CV stage (after the click and the lights were lit) and although I could see it was changing I could not read the values due to the display refresh issue.

I will dissasemble the power board this weekend and get a good look at the underside of the board and test the IGBT again out of circuit (I will take photos and post).

Graham


----------



## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

*Re: Shot IGBT*



george7g said:


> It appears that there are few of us who managed to fry DC/DC inverter ($8) -> IGBT driver ($4) -> IGBT (>$100) which is not a cheap mistake to make.
> 
> Just curious, since we all are more or less DYI tinkerers, would it be possible to put some kind of protection in this chain so when I fry the inverter and IGBT driver, it will still protect IGBT?
> 
> I am sure many future builders would appreciate it.


Hi George7g

How was yours shorted C2E1-C1 like mine or some other way?
Did you manage to identify what the cause of your shorted IGBT was?
Is your charger now working?
I am as yet unable to identify any reason why mine blew.

Graham


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: Shot IGBT*



sexstrap said:


> Hi George7g
> 
> How was yours shorted C2E1-C1 like mine or some other way?
> Did you manage to identify what the cause of your shorted IGBT was?
> ...


Installation was correct, charger was working properly except J1772 and Fan temp control.

My J1772 did not work as designed and during my debugging of this specific problem I accidentally shorted GND lead from Ctrl Bd to ~60V positive on battery.

Fried DC/DC convertor, 3184 IGBT driver and IGBT itself.


----------



## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

On your website it's stated that the PFC charger will go up to 350vdc or 425v with "some simple mods", but I can't find any mention of these mods anywhere. What needs to be done to increase the output voltage a little?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

AmpEater said:


> On your website it's stated that the PFC charger will go up to 350vdc or 425v with "some simple mods", but I can't find any mention of these mods anywhere. What needs to be done to increase the output voltage a little?


2 adjustments needed:

1. Resistor divider connected to Vovp pin of the driver board connector need to be adjusted - the output voltage of the divider should be 5V at the desired PFC output voltage. In the standard build, the resistors used are 2x 1M and 27k, which form a ~75x division. 75 * 5 = 375V. The easiest way to adjust is to INCREASE the value of one of the 1M resistors

2. Resistor divider connected to Vout pin of the same connector needs to be adjusted - the upper portion of the divider needs to be changed from 2M (in the standard version) to 2M * <your desired output voltage> / 300. So, if you want to change your output voltage to be 420V, you would change 2M into 2M * 420/300 = 2.8M. Again, the easiest way to do this is to increase the value of one of the 1M resistors.

3. In firmware, you need to change '2000' in the line below to '2800' (in the example from #2 above:
const float upperR0_mV=2000.; // 2M in regular units

Adding this to the manual, as well.

Thanks,
V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi guys - some quick feedback needed on the IP66 version of the charger we are working on now. As you know, the main challenge is cooling the inductors. Here is our current approach. Would love to hear thoughts!

Below is the description for the PFC stage but will be applicable to the DC/DC buck / isolation stage, as well.

1. 0.25" alum baseplate 6"x12. The power boards are mounted to that.

2. 2" segment of alum tube with 0.5" thick walls mounted to the baseplate, to serve as the outer heat-conducting shell for the inductor. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=19686&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=60

3. 2" segment of alum round rod to be the inner heat-conducting shell for the inductor. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1091&step=4&showunits=inches&id=195&top_cat=60

4. Inductor is potted inside this cavity. OB-200 from http://www.omega.com/pptst/OB-100_OB-200_OT-200.html. Leads are exiting from the top (which is kept open to avoid a shorted turn)

5. After assembly of the unit, a formed box with a gasket mounted on top of the baseplate (trying to source that now - enclosures have so far been the toughest part of our R&D efforts across products - funny how that happens...)

6. Cable entry is done through IP66 cable glands (similar to what we now use in our JuiceBoxes). One for power entry / exit, one for signal.

7. Cold plate or heatsink, etc is mounted to the baseplate of the finished unit. 

This way we don't have to deal with liquid inside the enclosure, remain completely flexible as to the type of cooling we use, maintain full environmental protection (actually a requirement from some of our industrial clients). 

We are also investigating other cores for this application as it will be harder to remove heat in this scenario and we need to reduce the size. We are sampling some HighFlux cores from Mag-Inc now. They have much better loss and flux handling characteristics compared to iron powder. They are stable up to 200C and don't exhibit thermal aging. Unfortunately they are also 4x the price as the core is basically half nickel by weight. This will likely mean that, if used for both stages, this will raise the price of the charger by $200 or so. 

We are hoping to run some tests soon.

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi guys - some quick feedback needed on the IP66 version of the charger we are working on now. As you know, the main challenge is cooling the inductors. Here is our current approach. Would love to hear thoughts!
> 
> Below is the description for the PFC stage but will be applicable to the DC/DC buck / isolation stage, as well.
> 
> ...


Any thoughts? 

Also, would love to hear some opinion on another project we are looking into: 3-phase PFC charger. Initial specs (for a non-isolated version) are:
* Input voltage: up to 600V RMS
* Output voltage: up to 735V DC (when fed from 600V, correspondingly lower for other voltages - max voltage being ~1.22*Vrms)
* Output power: 30kW
* Efficiency: 97%
* Single-phase operation: possible with an addition of a separate booster circuit.

Any demand for that, you think? Any feedback on parameters?


----------



## charliehorse55 (Sep 23, 2011)

600V charger sounds good. Here in Canada 600V is a standard 3 phase supply voltage (along with 208 and 240) so it would work well with the charger. 

At 35 amps per phase you could use a normal industrial cable as well. 

Ideally this charger would be watercooled and IP65+ as well.


----------



## charliehorse55 (Sep 23, 2011)

Also, what modifications would have to be made to the design to allow it to invert pack voltage DC to 120V AC? I'm not too familiar with the exact design of the charger, but I understand some chargers have this capability. 

I need a 120V AC bus to provide an electrical outlet, power a window AC unit and a computer power supply for DC12V.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You could get a 110VAC single phase VFD which should work on 120-180 VDC:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-1-5KW-2HP-7A-/251194079165

You can use many three phase VFDs on DC. If your bus voltage is like 200-400 VDC you can use a 208-230 VAC VFD. If you have appliances that can work on 220 VAC this would be perfect. And it may be possible to set up the drive to produce 120 VAC 60 Hz with a 200-400 VDC source.

The other option is to use standard automotive inverters for the accessory battery of 12V or 24V or even 48V to 120 or 240 VAC. You can get them from 100W or so up to about 5000W, and some are true sine wave, but they are more expensive.

I'm not sure if the VFD above is single phase output. But here are some that definitely are:
http://controlresources.com/vfd/?gclid=CN2965Oq_7kCFRGi4Aod62kAzg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuji-FVR008-E7S-7EX-1-9kVA-single-phase-variable-speed-drive-/110747169646
http://www.anaconsystems.com/text/singleov.html
http://www.wolfautomation.com/ProductList.aspx?CategoryID=5103
http://www.anaconsystems.com/text/opti_e2.html


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

charliehorse55 said:


> 600V charger sounds good. Here in Canada 600V is a standard 3 phase supply voltage (along with 208 and 240) so it would work well with the charger.
> 
> At 35 amps per phase you could use a normal industrial cable as well.
> 
> Ideally this charger would be watercooled and IP65+ as well.


It would be IP66 with alum baseplate that can be mounted to the cooling system of choice. Similar to VICOR brick setup


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> Hi guys - some quick feedback needed on the IP66 version of the charger we are working on now. As you know, the main challenge is cooling the inductors. Here is our current approach. Would love to hear thoughts!


Hi,

I've been thinking along the same lines, but instead of building the cavity from separate parts, I guess it would be simpler and cheaper to machine it out of a single block of aluminum. You can easily do it with a turntable or with a CNC. This would be especially true if you needed to machine the cooling block anyway in CNC. The result would be very professional and you could do any cutting you need at the same time.

As you are having at least two inductors (or two inductors + one transformer), CNC'ing these 2-3 cavities would come with no extra work needed.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been thinking along the same lines, but instead of building the cavity from separate parts, I guess it would be simpler and cheaper to machine it out of a single block of aluminum. You can easily do it with a turntable or with a CNC. This would be especially true if you needed to machine the cooling block anyway in CNC. The result would be very professional and you could do any cutting you need at the same time.
> 
> As you are having at least two inductors (or two inductors + one transformer), CNC'ing these 2-3 cavities would come with no extra work needed.


true re professional look but 2.5" thick alum plate is not cheap. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=12514&step=4&showunits=inches&id=76&top_cat=60 says $300+ for 12x12"... 

And we would have to remove most of the material - for the power board placement. Which means time. 

What I can see us doing is machining the cavity from 2.5" of a solid cylinder like http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=15234&step=4&showunits=inches&id=195&top_cat=60 and then mounting that to the baseplate. 

Anyone has any references to thermal modeling of the potted inductors? How do I calculate the thermal resistance, for example?

V


----------



## Siwastaja (Aug 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> Anyone has any references to thermal modeling of the potted inductors? How do I calculate the thermal resistance, for example?


A quick napkin calculation should be good enough for a starting point.

We wound our first inductor on Micrometals 300D sized core, so using this as a starting point and assuming OB-200 thermal epoxy...

k = 9.6 BTU*in / (hr * ft^2 * degF) (as per datasheet) = 1.38 W/(m*K) (converted to sane units)

(http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-calculator-d_857.html)

Surface area of the inductor, not including the top part:


```
0.077m * pi * 0.025 m (outer shell) +
0.049m * pi * 0.025 m (inner shell) +
(pi * (0.077m / 2)^2   - pi * (0.049m / 2)^2) (bottom surface)
= 0.00604 m^2 + 0.00385 m^2 + 0.00277 m^2
= 0.0127 m^2
```
Let's calculate how much power would cause a temperature gradient of 10 degC in the epoxy (assuming average thickness of 7mm):


```
Heat transfer 
P = k * area * dT / thickness
= 1.38 W/(m*K)   * 0.0127 m^2 * 10K / 0.007 m
= 25 Watts.
```
(Or you can solve dT from the equation and start with the power which would be copper and core losses combined.)

So clearly this epoxy is only good if you can keep the layer thin, 7mm is way too much; or if you can accept higher dT, but I guess these powdered iron cores can't take too much.

I was also thinking about directly cooling the inductor in water, but then the insulation would need to be just right (without hindering heat transfer) or you could get into problems in a few years...


----------



## charliehorse55 (Sep 23, 2011)

Maybe a heatpipe going from the inductor core to the heatsink base could work? Only tricky part would be insulating the heat pipe from the wire.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Siwastaja said:


> So clearly this epoxy is only good if you can keep the layer thin, 7mm is way too much; or if you can accept higher dT, but I guess these powdered iron cores can't take too much.


Yes. This is why we are testing HighFlux cores now for this design. Stable to 200C and no thermal aging. Higher peak flux, too. But way more expensive. As usual in life, really ;-)


----------



## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

Siwastaja said:


> I was also thinking about directly cooling the inductor in water, but then the insulation would need to be just right (without hindering heat transfer) or you could get into problems in a few years...


Forget water, too much risk. You might want to use oil filled 'bath'. That's how big industrial transformers are cooled. 
The trick would be to get proper liquid tight seal for the wires.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

george7g said:


> Forget water, too much risk. You might want to use oil filled 'bath'. That's how big industrial transformers are cooled.
> The trick would be to get proper liquid tight seal for the wires.


liquids are messy and generally not practical in a compact setup. What works for large stationary transformers could be tough to pull off in a small mobile charger. 

I think getting the inductor specified to 200C temp and using potted core is the way to go here. Will let you know how it goes.

BTW in other news, 97% efficiency for our latest test of the 1:1 isolation stage... (at 300-350V in/out)

V


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> So I tried increasing the CV cuttoff to 3.6 as 3.6 * 20 = 72 as the calibration step seems to detect the voltage as being 71v despite me telling it that it is actually at 75v (measured) this made no difference
> 
> ...


Hi guys

I have almost exactly the same problem as Graham.

Initially I connected only 12VDC supply and tried to start/calibrate the charger. I used 11 cells from my car. Charger detected the cells but offered me 68VDC as the voltage. After i set 35VDC and 10A output i tried to start the charger. It went in the charging mode but after a second screen said: "Lost AC input. Exiting in 5s". This without showing duty cycle. 
I only connect 12V supply. I am not brave enough to go forward and connect AC to the power section!! It seems that charger cant find input voltage?

I have a driver board version with one ISO124 and one HCPL-7520, One before V9.4 i think. Non-PFC charger.
Also i connected a line from +320VDC side of the rectifier to the Vbop pin of the connector and Vout is connected to the +output of the diode.

I also found out i used only one 1Mohm resistor for R9 on driver board. R10 i just shorted as it said in pcb driver board file. My battery will not exceed 150VDC. Should i actually use 1.2Mohm for R10?

Hm i can also connect 11cells =35VDC as input source and connect 10 cells as a battery load. Maybe it would not fry the circuit?

Please advise....
















TNX

Arber


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I have almost exactly the same problem as Graham.
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - thanks for posting here. You got 68V because your R10 is shorted - that makes the charger think that your voltage is double its actual value. It's normal and is corrected via calibration (which I think you did already). Next time you start the charger, it should show you the actual voltage.

The charger won't start charging off 12V supply. There is some code in the firmware that throws 'no AC' error if input voltage goes below certain limit (I think it's about 30-40V but you can easily check in firmware by searching for the text of your error).

So yes, please connect some source beyond 30-40V and try again. 

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok now i ve done it! I had to solder 1M resistor instead of shorting R10 and now charger works. I got it connected through some light bulbs just to be safe. Initially i charged with 2A and 10% duty. After success i took the bulbs off and charged off single phase with 10A output at 36VDC. Input shows 286V steady.
I kept it there for 15minutes and check some functions. I noticed next issues:

1. NTC thermistor shows -68deg C. I checked and thermistor shows 103Kohm. Is this too much? Did i connect it wrong? To which pins should i connect it? 

2. BMS and EOC outputs are dead. No voltage on them. Besides charger is doing just fine without having them connected. Is this a problem?
I also measure some 30VAC from BMS/EOC to charger casing!!! 

Otherwise charger is working happily at 36V 10A 14% duty....

Do you have some schematic for the control board? It would help greatly.

tnx

Arber


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Ok now i ve done it! I had to solder 1M resistor instead of shorting R10 and now charger works. I got it connected through some light bulbs just to be safe. Initially i charged with 2A and 10% duty. After success i took the bulbs off and charged off single phase with 10A output at 36VDC. Input shows 286V steady.
> I kept it there for 15minutes and check some functions. I noticed next issues:
> 
> 1. NTC thermistor shows -68deg C. I checked and thermistor shows 103Kohm. Is this too much? Did i connect it wrong? To which pins should i connect it?
> ...


 You can find schematics and other documentation here:
http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

The thermocouple may be connected incorrectly to the control board. Should go to "temp" and GND pins. GND (ground) pin is the center one on the 5 pin header, "temp" is the bottom one. It will also give -68V reading if R48 is missing (no Vcc to the thermocouple).

When you do full testing of the charger you will have to connect the EOC pin to the BMS pin or the charger won't run.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> You can find schematics and other documentation here:
> http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/
> 
> The thermocouple may be connected incorrectly to the control board. Should go to "temp" and GND pins. GND (ground) pin is the center one on the 5 pin header, "temp" is the bottom one. It will also give -68V reading if R48 is missing (no Vcc to the thermocouple).
> ...


TNX

I checked and i think i took R48 off on purpose. I dont remember why exactly, i think i saw some pictures here without it .

I am charging 35VDC battery at 10A and i am quite happy with the performance. However EOC and BMS remain unconnected. Charger works fine.
Could be internal short?

I dont know if it will work fully at 150VDC without EOC/BMS signal

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> TNX
> 
> I checked and i think i took R48 off on purpose. I dont remember why exactly, i think i saw some pictures here without it .
> 
> ...


awesome. 150VDC won't be any different from 35VDC so you should be fine. 

re EOC - what version of firmware are you using?

V


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Huh, i use the latest firmware of course...

I checked the schematic for the control board and it seems arduino outputs signal directly??!! So it seems Arduino o/ps are bad.
Could i forgot to put some switch in the firmware?

I also use R39 puldown resistor from BMS i/p to ground, is that ok.

This is my control board unfinished. I will take a photo of the finished board ASAP.
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/20130531_009.jpg

tnx 

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Huh, i use the latest firmware of course...
> 
> I checked the schematic for the control board and it seems arduino outputs signal directly??!! So it seems Arduino o/ps are bad.
> Could i forgot to put some switch in the firmware?
> ...


should work with latest firmware. looking forward to complete board's pics


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

all - just updated PFC build manual on site. has latest driver board build instructions (as of a few days ago, we have moved to V13 driver board) and a J1772 fix (thanks tomofreno!)


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Any thoughts?
> 
> Also, would love to hear some opinion on another project we are looking into: 3-phase PFC charger. Initial specs (for a non-isolated version) are:
> * Input voltage: up to 600V RMS
> ...


Spec'ing parts for this now. Some incredible stuff out there. Check this out - http://www.cree.com/power/products/...Files/Cree/Power/Data Sheets/CCS050M12CM2.pdf

So beautiful... SiC all around, very low switching loss, low overshoots... Of course, it a $450 part but still... ;-)


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

Can you elaborate on the EOC and BMS ports?

1. What configuration are they? Current drain...Current source...etc?

2. What are the voltages here?
I would like for EOC to activate LED diode next to my charging port. This is a signal to some outside device yes?
I would like to trigger "BMS input" when my BMS sees all cells have reached 3.5V and a relay opens! That would stop charger. Do you have another way of activating BMS input?

tnx

Arber


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Another question i have about arduino pin D6 and corresponding the "shutdown" output pin on the PCB board. How could this be used? Could i use this pin to signal the charger to stop? Then i could define BMS pin to only reduce duty (this would have to be supported in software of course) to 2A which is max current my BMS can hold at the end!

tnx

A


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## Yeaw (Nov 25, 2012)

Maybe a little off topic for the current PFC discussion, but does the Juicebox have fuses protecting the charger itself? I see that it has GFCI that would protect against phase imbalance but what about a short that the breaker panel failed to trip for? Am I missing something? It looks like almost all of the commercial chargers contain fuses for just this sort of protection, and I think this would especially be important if the EVSE wasn't directly wired into the breaker panel.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> Can you elaborate on the EOC and BMS ports?
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - please review the firmware. EOC is output pin, active LOW. source / sink 40ma but that's max spec - you will probably want to limit your load to 20ma

BMS is input pin, pulled low by 10k resistor to ground, active LOW (active means a signal to charger to stop now). 

This arrangement is designed to work with a closed-loop BMS like mini-BMS. When the charge starts and the BMS loop is closed (low resistance), EOC output (HIGH or INACTIVE as the charge has NOT yet completed) is channeled through that closed loop directly into the BMS input pin. Therefore, BMS pin is in HIGH or INACTIVE state. When cell voltage goes too high, mini-BMS will open the loop, and pull-down resistor on BMS pin will pull it into the ACTIVE, LOW state. Charger stops.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Another question i have about arduino pin D6 and corresponding the "shutdown" output pin on the PCB board. How could this be used? Could i use this pin to signal the charger to stop? Then i could define BMS pin to only reduce duty (this would have to be supported in software of course) to 2A which is max current my BMS can hold at the end!
> 
> tnx
> 
> A


Hi Arber - please review the firmware. 

In the official firmware, D6 is configured as output pin but is not used. It is wired to be pulling down the PWM on the output of the control board. Some situations that might call for this: loss of 12V supply, PWM output stuck high for some reason, etc.

You can of course redefine any of the pins in firmware. Generally, the following 4 pins, while defined in the pin definition header in firmware, are not really used and can be repurposed:
* inrelay
* outrelay
* 110relay
* shutdown

Thanks,
V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Yeaw said:


> Maybe a little off topic for the current PFC discussion, but does the Juicebox have fuses protecting the charger itself? I see that it has GFCI that would protect against phase imbalance but what about a short that the breaker panel failed to trip for? Am I missing something? It looks like almost all of the commercial chargers contain fuses for just this sort of protection, and I think this would especially be important if the EVSE wasn't directly wired into the breaker panel.


Neither JuiceBox (which is our EVSE product) or our SmartCharger (our charger product) have internal fuses by default. One can of course install an internal breaker into either for redundancy but the general expectation is that the charger or EVSE is *always* plugged into a dedicated circuit with a dedicated breaker.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber - please review the firmware.
> 
> In the official firmware, D6 is configured as output pin but is not used. It is wired to be pulling down the PWM on the output of the control board. Some situations that might call for this: loss of 12V supply, PWM output stuck high for some reason, etc.
> 
> ...


OK

My idea was to use this pin (D6/Shutdown) as input to stop charger. 
If it is output, could it then be used with NO relay connected to gnd? What would be the reaction, would the charger stop if D6 went to gnd?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber - please review the firmware. EOC is output pin, active LOW. source / sink 40ma but that's max spec - you will probably want to limit your load to 20ma
> 
> BMS is input pin, pulled low by 10k resistor to ground, active LOW (active means a signal to charger to stop now).
> 
> This arrangement is designed to work with a closed-loop BMS like mini-BMS. When the charge starts and the BMS loop is closed (low resistance), EOC output (HIGH or INACTIVE as the charge has NOT yet completed) is channeled through that closed loop directly into the BMS input pin. Therefore, BMS pin is in HIGH or INACTIVE state. When cell voltage goes too high, mini-BMS will open the loop, and pull-down resistor on BMS pin will pull it into the ACTIVE, LOW state. Charger stops.


So for EOC i could use +5V from the board and connect small relay to light green LED at the charging port to indicate FULL. While charging another red LED will be lit trough relays other contact . Simple arrangement to notify me on the charger status in the morning.

My BMS has open drain type o/p on the master board (N channel mosfet). So i would put another relay here to route (to drain) +5V to BMS input yes? That way i could switch charger off if needed. Would it work that way, or would i also need to connect EOC pin?

But what do you think about my charger normally working with BMS and EOC disconnected? Huh...
Also here are the pictures of completed driver and control board.
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/20131010_001.jpg
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/20131010_004.jpg

Did i miss something?

tnx

Arber


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tnx guys for the help. I finished the charger and it runs happily at 25A out with cca 16A going in through single phase. I still have to make 3phase cable to test the full power of the charger. 

I am weary though... At 25A it ran at 45°C and duty was at 50% only!!! Huh, with 3phase i think i will have to use water cooling. That means disassembling charger and drilling some holes for copper pipes. I will also add pump to cycle the water slowly. Or maybe i will just use more powerfull fan. Curently i use high volume-low speed 230VAC fan.

Also i noticed after i connected thermistor correctly BMS and EOC work as advertised. Must be some conditional in the firmware...

I will make signaling as i said before. Three LED diodes: RED for charger operating, GREEN for battery charged, YELLOW for BMS shunting!

I will post some pictures here soon.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Tnx guys for the help. I finished the charger and it runs happily at 25A out with cca 16A going in through single phase. I still have to make 3phase cable to test the full power of the charger.
> 
> I am weary though... At 25A it ran at 45°C and duty was at 50% only!!! Huh, with 3phase i think i will have to use water cooling. That means disassembling charger and drilling some holes for copper pipes. I will also add pump to cycle the water slowly. Or maybe i will just use more powerfull fan. Curently i use high volume-low speed 230VAC fan.
> 
> ...


Great to hear about you progress, Arber!

25A from 230V? Or about 6kW? What is your ambient temperature? Can you post datasheet for the fan you are using? Is the inductor before heatsink or after?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

No, 25A are outgoing at 140VDC, actual input is 16A 230VAC (50Hz) with 16A autotrip fuse. I also have FID (you guys call it GFI) at the source. 
Inductor is downstream with only the fan behind pulling air trough. Air enters the box under the car and exhaust is behind the last bulkhead, under the rear fender. I dont use any heatsink as such. All elements are sitting on a 30mm thick Alu plate (2x 150mm) that i wanted to use for water cooling. My friends convinced me it will have enough mass to dissipate temperature into the car body. My fan is some 160mm 230VAC unit i picked up at my friends place, it runs indipendently from temperature. I have no idea of its origin... has no id plate...

You can see the arrangement here:
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/20130907_0012.jpg
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/20130907_0052.jpg
the white thing beside driver board is the timer for precharge - 10s to allow caps to fill and allow arduino to start.

Last night i left the charger on at 22A output and it was holding at 45°C.
I seriously think i will make some holes in those plates and put copper pipes trough. Water cooling.....should run colder than my beer .

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> No, 25A are outgoing at 140VDC, actual input is 16A 230VAC (50Hz) with 16A autotrip fuse. I also have FID (you guys call it GFI) at the source.
> Inductor is downstream with only the fan behind pulling air trough. Air enters the box under the car and exhaust is behind the last bulkhead, under the rear fender. I dont use any heatsink as such. All elements are sitting on a 30mm thick Alu plate (2x 150mm) that i wanted to use for water cooling. My friends convinced me it will have enough mass to dissipate temperature into the car body. My fan is some 160mm 230VAC unit i picked up at my friends place, it runs indipendently from temperature. I have no idea of its origin... has no id plate...
> 
> You can see the arrangement here:
> ...


Ah, got it. Yes, alum plate by itself is not a very good heatsink - the surface area is too small. In a heatsink, W/C (watts removed per 1 C temp rise) is pretty much proportional to the surface area. The sink that we use has ~7x the surface area compared to the plate of the same size (looking from the top). That's what helps get the heat out. 

So unless your plate is really well thermally bonded to the body of the car, it will limit the amount of power you can push through the charger. 

Liquid cooling will solve the problem, of course. Instead of drilling holes, I would suggest to get one of the cold plates (from us or anywhere else) and just mount your plate onto that.

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes i suspected that, however i havent secured the charger into the deck yet. I just have it sitting on batteries. 

Today i noticed one other thing. The 110V derating doesnt work. I tried to tell my charger it is connected to 12VDC but it said "lost AC input..." and refused to charge. How did you get it to reduce power?

I have a wire from + side of the rectifiers to the Vbop on the driver. Between i put 230VAC relay to svitch on only when 2nd phase is active! On the other contact i put 12VDC so it fulfils the "les than 180V" input. Is this too small?

I have another idea; i could connect rectifier + and - (320VDC) with two (R1=220K + R2=270K) resistors to create cca 500K resistor and take the input from the middle junction. Relay would trigger on 2nd phase as before. It should read cca 150VDC yes? That way firmware should know when i am riding single phase and reduce current accordingly. I guess resistors wouldnt heatup much at that high value?

http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/20131013_006.jpg

How would you do this? Any ideas?


tnx

Arber


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## janzicek (Jul 27, 2013)

valerun said:


> all - just updated PFC build manual on site. has latest driver board build instructions (as of a few days ago, we have moved to V13 driver board) and a J1772 fix (thanks tomofreno!)


Good day Valery, I built up my V13 board, the instructions are very good. The only thing I noticed was, I think D2 needs to be placed but is not mentioned in the build up. Please let me know.

Thanks again,
Josh


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## janzicek (Jul 27, 2013)

janzicek said:


> Good day Valery, I built up my V13 board, the instructions are very good. The only thing I noticed was, I think D2 needs to be placed but is not mentioned in the build up. Please let me know.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Josh


Also, C30 and C31 are called out for population but do not appear on the PCB.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Yes i suspected that, however i havent secured the charger into the deck yet. I just have it sitting on batteries.
> 
> Today i noticed one other thing. The 110V derating doesnt work. I tried to tell my charger it is connected to 12VDC but it said "lost AC input..." and refused to charge. How did you get it to reduce power?
> 
> ...


Yes 12v is too low. I think we talked about it a few posts back. You can modify all these settings in the firmware. I would really encourage you to study the code to understand how various things work. It is quite well documented - about a third of the lines in the code are comments...

You could just put another 2M resistor in series with the existing 2M in the default input voltage divider (inserted via your relay). This way your charge will read half the actual voltage. 

V


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

janzicek said:


> ...The only thing I noticed was, I think D2 needs to be placed but is not mentioned in the build up... Also, C30 and C31 are called out for population but do not appear on the PCB.


 I also recently completed assembly of a V13 driver board and had two 116 Ohm resistors, one diode, and two capacitors leftover. I saw no call out for a diode in the latest V12 build notes for any of the variants of the V12 - V13 driver boards, and the only diodes I find on the driver board pcb files are Z1 and Z2 which are labeled on the V9 board but not on the V13. They are not listed in the V9 BOM, so apparently not used. Curious that we each had a diode included in our kits.

C30 and C31 are on one of the V12 (there are two) pcb files and on the V9 but not on the pcb file for V13 and the other V12 version, so apparently they are not used anymore (you can see the layout at the top of the boards is quite different).

I emailed Valery yesterday about the above components but have not received a response. Maybe he will respond here.


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## janzicek (Jul 27, 2013)

tomofreno said:


> I also recently completed assembly of a V13 driver board and had two 116 Ohm resistors, one diode, and two capacitors leftover. I saw no call out for a diode in the latest V12 build notes for any of the variants of the V12 - V13 driver boards, and the only diodes I find on the driver board pcb files are Z1 and Z2 which are labeled on the V9 board but not on the V13. They are not listed in the V9 BOM, so apparently not used. Curious that we each had a diode included in our kits.
> 
> C30 and C31 are on one of the V12 (there are two) pcb files and on the V9 but not on the pcb file for V13 and the other V12 version, so apparently they are not used anymore (you can see the layout at the top of the boards is quite different).
> 
> I emailed Valery yesterday about the above components but have not received a response. Maybe he will respond here.


The reason I went ahead and placed D2 is that I saw no other way for the Arduino to sense mains voltage. D2 supplies the PC817 which will provide "rough" voltage measurement ability to the arduino across the isolation barrier. Without D2 I don't think there is an alternate method. I'm sure we'll recieve clarification from Valery soon.

Thanks for the comments,
Josh


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

janzicek said:


> The reason I went ahead and placed D2 is that I saw no other way for the Arduino to sense mains voltage. D2 supplies the PC817 which will provide "rough" voltage measurement ability to the arduino across the isolation barrier. Without D2 I don't think there is an alternate method. I'm sure we'll recieve clarification from Valery soon.
> 
> Thanks for the comments,
> Josh


Hi Josh - yes D2 is required for completing the circuit for input voltage measurement (and also for the PFC chip input voltage sensing).

Updating manual now


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Quick Start Guide posted on the site at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

Manual updated per latest comments - thanks!

V12 Firmware posted. Many updates including the Serial control of charger, more efficient use of memory, etc. Switches preset for PFC kits / units - no changes required (assuming latest hardware). 

Should be fully backward-compatible (assuming switches are adjusted accordingly).

Thanks,
V


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

janzicek said:


> The reason I went ahead and placed D2 is that I saw no other way for the Arduino to sense mains voltage. D2 supplies the PC817 which will provide "rough" voltage measurement ability to the arduino across the isolation barrier. Without D2 I don't think there is an alternate method. I'm sure we'll recieve clarification from Valery soon.
> 
> Thanks for the comments,
> Josh


Thanks! I didn't see that.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Schematics for Driver board, Control board, and overall charger are all updated to the current version of the boards at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V1...layouts/EMW_SmartCharge-12000_schematics-V12/

Long overdue, I know, but better late than never, right?

Thanks for your patience. 

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

power stage schematics are also now fully up to date on site. 

Next up - minor BOM updates to sync with manual and schematics (less critical).

Now working on qualifying the next version of power inductors - HighFlux cores (half-nickel). Smaller cores, lower core losses, and can run at 200C continuous. ~5x more expensive than the ones we are using now but will likely allow us to rate the unit at 15kW 70A output with relatively small price increase


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Yes 12v is too low. I think we talked about it a few posts back. You can modify all these settings in the firmware.  I would really encourage you to study the code to understand how various things work. It is quite well documented - about a third of the lines in the code are comments...
> 
> You could just put another 2M resistor in series with the existing 2M in the default input voltage divider (inserted via your relay). This way your charge will read half the actual voltage.
> 
> V


TNX for the idea, yes that will work excellent. 
However i already tried to connect 3 phases and sadly found out reality.... Ok, it blew away one cap on power board, no harm done to the IGBT. 
BUT!!! i reconsidered my schetch i sent you. I found out it wouldnt work because diode bridges are upstream of the common neutral. They basicaly act as a load on each phase. But those are actually connected/shorted downstream. NO GO!

On the picture is a half bridge rectifier. I will be using available 3 bridges, i will just short the input and connect neutral to the - directly. This should be valid 230VAC / 320VDC 3 phase rectifier capable of supplying 30A input and having at least 50A output. 

However when i will connect single phase i cant just use the same lines. I will then use additional bridge with its own contacts. I will also use dedicated port for single phase - under the rear bumper... The 2M resistor we discussed will controll power in case i use single phase, limiting to cca 3kW. 

A


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I recently replaced my driver board with the V13 board and now the LCD won't turn on. I checked for a stuck red or green button, made sure the black button was pushed in, removed the bms cable and used a wire to short the EOC and BMS pins - and checked they were connected with a dvm on the pololu sockets, but cannot get the LCD to turn on. It turns on fine with the programming cable connected and the "Thank you..." and other messages print to the LCD - tested that before and after the above tests. Anyone know any possible causes?

These are my main switch settings:

//------------------------------ MAIN SWITCHES -----------------------------------
#define INmC_SENSOR Allegro_150U // this needs to stay uncommented!
// #define OUTC_SENSOR Tamura_50B // Tamura_50B
#define OUTC_SENSOR Allegro_100U // Allegro_100U
#define MCC100A // 100A output rating - use ONLY with a custom-wound inductor
// #define buck_Ecore // Ecore output inductor - limit output current to lower value
#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
#define A7520_mV // using A7520 optoisolation for mV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
#define PC817 // mains voltage sensing based on a crude regular opto (V13 boards)
#define PFC // is this a PFC unit?
// #define PFCdirect // is this a PFCDirect 25kW unit?
float PFCvoltage=370.; // normally 370
#define drop110power // reduce power to ~1.5kW when connected to 110VAC?
// #define UVLO // enable gate supply undervoltage protection?
// #define NiXX // do we want support for Nickel chemistries?
#define IND_Temp // do we have a second temp probe on the inductor?
//------------------------------- END MAIN SWITCHES ------------------------------


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I recently replaced my driver board with the V13 board and now the LCD won't turn on. I checked for a stuck red or green button, made sure the black button was pushed in, removed the bms cable and used a wire to short the EOC and BMS pins - and checked they were connected with a dvm on the pololu sockets, but cannot get the LCD to turn on. It turns on fine with the programming cable connected and the "Thank you..." and other messages print to the LCD - tested that before and after the above tests. Anyone know any possible causes?
> 
> These are my main switch settings:
> 
> ...


Hi Tom - have you measured supply voltages on control board? is ~12V there? Is +5V there (measure right after the LM7805 or on one of the VCC pins of Arduino board. Programing button has no effect?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Tom - have you measured supply voltages on control board? is ~12V there? Is +5V there (measure right after the LM7805 or on one of the VCC pins of Arduino board. Programing button has no effect?


Thanks. I had checked 12V, but assumed 5V was ok since I had just replaced the regulator. Bad assumption. Had to replace it again.

Now everything seems ok but it does not put out any current/voltage. Will check +/-15V and input V to IGBT when I get a chance.


----------



## Citystromer (May 2, 2009)

Hi,
I wanted to ask this dumb question:
For a privat individual, what would be the advantage of investing into a pfc. 
Thanks for any answer.


----------



## Micro (Oct 20, 2013)

valerun said:


> power stage schematics are also now fully up to date on site.
> 
> Next up - minor BOM updates to sync with manual and schematics (less critical).
> 
> Now working on qualifying the next version of power inductors - HighFlux cores (half-nickel). Smaller cores, lower core losses, and can run at 200C continuous. ~5x more expensive than the ones we are using now but will likely allow us to rate the unit at 15kW 70A output with relatively small price increase


@valerun

First I would like to thank you for this great project, But I have some questions regarding the PFC stage, excuse me if they have been asked before.

I have attached a PDF file to clear the schematic I am referring to, ignore chip type I am using.
And I am referring to your schematic (131011. EMW_10-15kW_charger_DriverBoard_V12-13.sch)

Questions:-

1- What is the correct part number for U2 (A7520).

2- In your previous schematics, I have seen that you are supplying the IGBT driver (HCPL3120) through isolated DC-DC converters, And this is just robust, And I see in your last schematic that you are supplying the IGBT driver through 78015 and 79015, no isolation with DC - DC converters. did you get same results with the new supply ?

3- Why your PFC stage has double IGBTs, in other word I see double PFC stages!! why?

4- I am still not sure if you ran this thing at 110VAC?

5- Have you ever faced problems from EMI generated from the PFC stage?

6- Do you have some oscilloscope waves for the PFC IGBTs, and drive signal while its running?

7- U3 and U4 DC -DC 2W is a dual power supply units? +-15VDC and +12VDC?

Thank you for your time

Regards


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Valery,
I cannot get the charger to let me calibrate voltage. 

First two times I started the charger it just went to the "Charging complete..." screen immediately after starting the CC mode. Second two times it went to the normal display with duty cycle, output voltage, etc. but all values except temperatures were zero (TBS gauge also reads zero current).

On the last of these attempts I verified that +/-15V was ok. Verified no shorts between IGBT terminals. Re-traced the Iss, Isg, Vbop, etc lines since that connector had to be replaced with a pololu, and verified they are correct. Measured 365V between C1 and C2 of the right side IGBT when powered on. 

I started up the charger again and went through the calibration routine. After shorting outputs to calibrate zero it gave me the message to "Connect battery to calibrate voltage or press any button to skip." After connecting the output to the pack I pressed the green button and the display read "Battery not connected or...press any button to ignore". I pressed the green button and it displayed the normal screen for charging and duty cycle started going from 2% to 5% with a fraction of an amp current, at which point I pressed the red button to terminate the charge because I didn't think the voltage had been calibrated. About the time I pressed the button there was a pop and flash from the right side of the charger.

I can't find any sign of damage on any of the boards, and the IGBTs are not shorted. I checked for discoloration, cracked component, signs of arcing using a 3X magnifying lamp and couldn't find anything.

I then decided to do the first part of the test procedure, so I un-commented #define debug and connected 120VAC only to the adapter. Ran through the calibration routine again. After shorting inputs and verifying 36 cells LiFePO4, I got the screen to calibrate voltage or press any button to skip. I connected the output to the battery pack, pressed the green button and the charger went to the "run charger" screen. I unplugged it and again went through the calibration routine. This time I did not get the screen to calibrate voltage. After zero calibration and verifying 36 cells LiFePO4, it displayed "Battery disconnected or...press any button to continue..." I connected the output to the pack and pressed the green button. It again went to the "run charger" screen and I unplugged the charger. I repeated this 3 more times and could not get the calibrate voltage screen again.

It seems to me to act like the firmware (I am using V11) and hardware do not jive. I have both #define 7520_V and #define 7520_mV un-commented. Is this correct for the V13 board? It has a 7520 chip. I would like to re-check +/-15V but I don't want to proceed further without getting the voltage calibrated.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Still cannot get the charger to calibrate voltage with the new V13 driver board. After shorting the output in the calibration routine and pressing the green button, it asks to verify the number of cells is 36. It does not prompt to connect the battery. When I press "yes" to verify the cell count it then posts "Output disconnected or reverse polarity, press any button to continue. CAUTION!" If I press a button it goes to the normal screen displayed while charging. I cannot get the voltage calibration as described in the build notes:


> 2. If it does ask to short the output
> a. MEASURE the output before shorting
> b. If it reads more than a few volts, connect your dummy lamp load to the output. Measure again in a few seconds
> c. If it still reads more than a few volts, something is wrong. Time to debug
> ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Still cannot get the charger to calibrate voltage with the new V13 driver board. After shorting the output in the calibration routine and pressing the green button, it asks to verify the number of cells is 36. It does not prompt to connect the battery. When I press "yes" to verify the cell count it then posts "Output disconnected or reverse polarity, press any button to continue. CAUTION!" If I press a button it goes to the normal screen displayed while charging. I cannot get the voltage calibration as described in the build notes:


Hi Tom - 

for V13 board, please use 
------------
// #define A7520_mV
#define PC817
-----------
switch combo

But that should not be the reason for skipping the calibration step. Are you pressing the green button when the charger asks to connect the battery? You should not - you need to let the charger detect the battery and print the voltage it sees. Then you would enter the correct voltage using buttons. Pressing a button on 'connect battery' message but before the battery voltage is displayed will cause the charger to skip this step. 

The corresponding code is at ~line 650:
--------------
outV=readV(); // get the readings with zero-point already calibrated
if(fabs(outV)<3) { // should be pretty tight after zero calibration
myLCD->clrScreen();
printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CAL1); // this asks to connect the battery
delay(1000); // to avoid reading same button state as in prev step
while(1) {
outV=readV();
if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton) || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button)) break;
if(outV>10) { // loop until battery not connected
delay(5000); // let settle
outV=readV(); // read settled voltage
// calibrate
printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CAL2);
// calibration routine here - if actual voltage > shown, REDUCE the constant
configuration.Vcal_k=DecimalDigitInput3(int(outV))/outV;
break; // from while() loop
}
}
}
----------------------

From this, if you see 'connect battery' message, your zero calibration was successful.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Citystromer said:


> Hi,
> I wanted to ask this dumb question:
> For a privat individual, what would be the advantage of investing into a pfc.
> Thanks for any answer.


not dumb at all. 

apart from being nicer to the grid, PFC helps you to extract the most power out of circuit breakers. This is less important at home as you can always oversize your breakers (at the expense of some reduction in safety - usually minimal). It IS important, however, for charging from public EVSEs where you cannot change the breaker value. Without PFC, you will generally be limited to 60-80% of the rated EVSE current.

Another benefit of PFC is higher output voltage range - up to 450VDC in this charger design. Non-PFC will go only up to ~270V at full power.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Micro - 

Answers inline below.

> 1- What is the correct part number for U2 (A7520).
Please see BOM file for details. From BOM file: 
IC - HCPL-7520 516-1684-5-ND

> last schematic that you are supplying the IGBT driver through 78015 and 79015, no isolation with DC - DC converters. 
not true. Drivers still supplied with isolated supplies. The regulators you mentioned are used to supply voltage measuring circuit and are on the IGBT side of isolation barrier

> 3- Why your PFC stage has double IGBTs, in other word I see double PFC stages!! why?
Dual IGBT module is used for each stage. One half is used as IGBT, another - as a freewheeling diode (with IGBT disabled by connecting G and E together)

> 4- I am still not sure if you ran this thing at 110VAC?
Yes - any VAC from ~100 to ~260

> 5- Have you ever faced problems from EMI generated from the PFC stage?
not for over a year now. even at elevated power levels (we tested the current design for short-term delivery of up to 18kW)

> 6- Do you have some oscilloscope waves for the PFC IGBTs, and drive signal while its running?
will see what I can find

> 7- U3 and U4 DC -DC 2W is a dual power supply units? +-15VDC and +12VDC?
yes - 12VDC input, +/-15 output. 1W per channel.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Tom -
> 
> for V13 board, please use
> ------------
> ...


 # define A7520_V and # define PC817 are un-commented. I saw in the V12 build notes that #define A 7520_mV should be commented out, so did that. It didn't make any difference for the problem. 

The charger never asks to connect the battery. I looked over the code and agree it should ask to connect the battery and then give the chance to edit it, but it does not. As I said, after I short the outputs and press the green button it asks to confirm 36 LiFePO4 cells, I select "yes" and it then posts "Output disconnected or reverse polarity..."

I've tried calibrating 6 times just this morning, with the same result every time. I measured continuity between the outputs to ensure they were shorted before pressing the green button.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> # define A7520_V and # define PC817 are un-commented. I saw in the V12 build notes that #define A 7520_mV should be commented out, so did that. It didn't make any difference for the problem.
> 
> The charger never asks to connect the battery. I looked over the code and agree it should ask to connect the battery and then give the chance to edit it, but it does not. As I said, after I short the outputs and press the green button it asks to confirm 36 LiFePO4 cells, I select "yes" and it then posts "Output disconnected or reverse polarity..."
> 
> I've tried calibrating 6 times just this morning, with the same result every time. I measured continuity between the outputs to ensure they were shorted before pressing the green button.


got it. Ah, sorry my fault here - the connection between the control and driver board is slightly different in V13. It is described in the latest manual but is easy to miss as it's in a different part of the manual. Basically, the driver board now depends on control board to provide 5V supply. So you need to connect the last pin of the 6-pin PWM output connector on control board and last pin of PWM input connect on driver board together.

Let's see what that does. Sorry I should have figured this out earlier.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> got it. Ah, sorry my fault here - the connection between the control and driver board is slightly different in V13. It is described in the latest manual but is easy to miss as it's in a different part of the manual. Basically, the driver board now depends on control board to provide 5V supply. So you need to connect the last pin of the 6-pin PWM output connector on control board and last pin of PWM input connect on driver board together.
> 
> Let's see what that does. Sorry I should have figured this out earlier.


 That took care of that problem. Goes through the entire calibration routine now. Guess I should have looked further through the V12 build notes rather than at that one section on the driver bd.

I think I may have blown the output IGBT in my earlier attempts to run it without the 5V connected. After connecting the 5V I tried running at 10A output current and the screen read correct voltage, but zero current. I measure indefinitely high resistance between the middle and bottom IGBT terminals, and when I get the probe close to one of the terminals (with other probe touching the other terminal) it arcs to the terminal (no power connected to the charger).


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> That took care of that problem. Goes through the entire calibration routine now. Guess I should have looked further through the V12 build notes rather than at that one section on the driver bd.
> 
> I think I may have blown the output IGBT in my earlier attempts to run it without the 5V connected. After connecting the 5V I tried running at 10A output current and the screen read correct voltage, but zero current. I measure indefinitely high resistance between the middle and bottom IGBT terminals, and when I get the probe close to one of the terminals (with other probe touching the other terminal) it arcs to the terminal (no power connected to the charger).


I think it's just because your caps are still charged up. So resistance meter errors out...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys - 

Kits have been updated (as of ~a week ago so a few of you have received the new formats).

Main changes:

1. V13 driver board uses different voltage sensing mechanism for input AC. Substantial component count reduction. Manual updated with instructions for this board

2. the PFC inductor has been re-spec'ed to a E-core inductor from special materials - HighFlux core running much cooler than iron powder, and tape wire that allowed the winding to be one-layer while providing the needed inductance. It's also much ligher and easier to mount with a simple brace. This inductor is spec'ed to 200C continuous operation and will heat up to ~140-150C at 12kW output power (assuming adequate airflow). So don't touch it ;-) On the buck output side, we still use the large toroid iron powder core inductor - could not yet find the large enough high flux core for 70A outoput... This change obviously cost us a bit - that's how we used part of the savings from the driver board simplification.

3. All kits are now shipped with upgraded latest-gen Semikron IGBTs. Due to their better properties, we have also been able to go from 195A IGBTs to 145A part. Finally, since we are now reusing these IGBTs in our upcoming 3--phase design, we were able to order these in bulk. Still, even after all this, the move to latest-gen increased our costs a good bit so that's where the rest of driver board simplification went (and then some).

4. Control boards now include provision for 2 8A relays that you can use for precharge, etc. We will be updating the BOM with corresponding part numbers, etc

5. LCD has been changed to the latest version from 4D systems. No physical change but the firmware library is different. We will be posting new lib to our site shortly (this week most likely). It's already working in our JuiceBox EVSE so it's just the matter of testing charger messages for line breaks etc in the new display.

6. As some of you noticed, we now have 3 fans in the machined enclosure. While this does improve the inductor cooling in the 12kW version, main reason for the additional fan is that we are reusing the same enclosure for our upcoming 25kW high-voltage PFC charger (several beta units operational in field already). In that design, inductor is physically much bigger and needs cooling on the top, as well. 

7. On the firmware side, we now have remote control via serial. Command set is described in the Quick Start guide posted at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/. 

I think that's all. 

Thank you all for your continued support of this open source project!

Valery.


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## Micro (Oct 20, 2013)

valerun said:


> Thanks Micro -
> 
> Answers inline below.
> 
> ...


Hi Valerun.

Please see attached schematic published at your site, and please explain the 78015 and 79015 wiring.

And how the driver board is getting supply, and where is the isolation?

and if you can show me a wave at G of IGBT with load it will be great!

Thanks


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Micro said:


> Hi Valerun.
> 
> Please see attached schematic published at your site, and please explain the 78015 and 79015 wiring.
> 
> ...


isolation is in U3, U4 within the Driver schematic box


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## Micro (Oct 20, 2013)

valerun said:


> isolation is in U3, U4 within the Driver schematic box


Hi

I really cant see any U3,U4 in my schematic attached before.

Part number for those?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Just a minor nit: the S1 and S2 are 78L05 and 79L05. The lower case 'L' or 'l' looks like a '1'. I don't know why they use the 'S' reference designation, which is usually used for switches.

I see U3 and U4 in the box at the bottom of the schematic. Do the gate drive power supply capacitors need to be so large (22-50 uF)? And is the DC-DC happy with such a large capacitive load? I suppose it's OK, at least for Traco's DC-DC, which can handle 390 uF:
http://www.tracopower.com/products/tmh.pdf

But the input of the DC-DC should be bypassed with a small low impedance film capacitor, close to the device.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> I think it's just because your caps are still charged up. So resistance meter errors out...


Ok, but why do I have 34% duty cycle, 120V output V, and 0.0 current? I let it run for about 15-20 seconds and current remained at zero - confirmed by TBS gauge/shunt. I have 12V, 15V, and 5V, and 364V on the IGBT. Duty cycle increases after it starts but current remains 0.0.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Ok, but why do I have 34% duty cycle, 120V output V, and 0.0 current? I let it run for about 15-20 seconds and current remained at zero - confirmed by TBS gauge/shunt. I have 12V, 15V, and 5V, and 364V on the IGBT. Duty cycle increases after it starts but current remains 0.0.


So the IGBT works then. Otherwise you would see a ramp all the way to 97%. What is the voltage on the current sensor's pins?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> So the IGBT works then. Otherwise you would see a ramp all the way to 97%. What is the voltage on the current sensor's pins?


 4.97V between Vcc and signal ground, and 2.52V between Viout and signal ground. Seems to have 2.52 Viout whether charger is in charge mode or not. Not sure though, I can't see the LCD to check charger status while probing, and it only runs a short while before stopping and posting that charging is complete. Difficult to probe those 3 small legs since my 12V adapter is mounted over them. Current reading was 0.0 to 0.1A. TBS verifies zero output current. If the current sensor has failed will that prevent the charger from putting out current?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> 4.97V between Vcc and signal ground, and 2.52V between Viout and signal ground. Seems to have 2.52 Viout whether charger is in charge mode or not. Not sure though, I can't see the LCD to check charger status while probing, and it only runs a short while before stopping and posting that charging is complete. Difficult to probe those 3 small legs since my 12V adapter is mounted over them. Current reading was 0.0 to 0.1A. TBS verifies zero output current. If the current sensor has failed will that prevent the charger from putting out current?


can you try running into a resistive load?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> TNX for the idea, yes that will work excellent.
> However i already tried to connect 3 phases and sadly found out reality.... Ok, it blew away one cap on power board, no harm done to the IGBT.
> BUT!!! i reconsidered my schetch i sent you. I found out it wouldnt work because diode bridges are upstream of the common neutral. They basicaly act as a load on each phase. But those are actually connected/shorted downstream. NO GO!
> 
> ...


Valery!!!

I wired the charger 3 phase half bridge rectified and N line to the negative output of the capacitors. It is now giving 55A at 57°C. I noticed it began to decrease a bit. At this rate it will fill my cells in cca 4 hours!

Anyways i will definitely add water cooling as i have a small package charger.
Also i will add special circuit to trigger single phase with one full bridge rectifier to charge with 20A. Also i will make some reducer circuit. I will add schematics here...

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery!!!
> 
> I wired the charger 3 phase half bridge rectified and N line to the negative output of the capacitors. It is now giving 55A at 57°C. I noticed it began to decrease a bit. At this rate it will fill my cells in cca 4 hours!
> 
> ...


That's great to hear, Arber! Can you measure temperature of the inductors and post here?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i we done it and more... I managed to burn one bridge. Poor thing was probably sufferring. Luckly i installed fast fuses so no other damage. I replaced it and corrected the wiring. Now i can charge from three phase at cca 30A output with 16A going trough N line and 10A trough RST. System thinks input is 20A single phase. Heatsink temp is cca 47deg so no problem. However i will definitely go for water cooling. I just need to cut into my alu block. 

When charging through single phase i set up reduction to 14A output and input follows with 8A. 

Wiring.... 

I also think of losing N from triphase altogether and running + and - from inverted diodes. The problem will be precharge which will have to have one 100R resistor and strong DC contactor. I will try to find space for it.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Well i we done it and more... I managed to burn one bridge. Poor thing was probably sufferring. Luckly i installed fast fuses so no other damage. I replaced it and corrected the wiring. Now i can charge from three phase at cca 30A output with 16A going trough N line and 10A trough RST. System thinks input is 20A single phase. Heatsink temp is cca 47deg so no problem. However i will definitely go for water cooling. I just need to cut into my alu block.
> 
> When charging through single phase i set up reduction to 14A output and input follows with 8A.
> 
> ...


thanks for posting! Do you know your inductor temperature after 20-30 minutes of running? Also, what DC voltage do you get after the bridges (on input caps)?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Inductor is hot but i can hold my hand on it for half minute. 30A is not much i guess, but it is a stable current/stable temp at 50°C. When at 55A temp is only rising.

Voltage from inductor + to caps - is cca 325VDC, relative to the inductor output is 150VDC however. Charger sees 285VDC. I measured today, since yesterday the priority was to get the system working. I cant measure temp more accurately, i will have to get IR scope.

It seems that temp is more stable with 3phase since it can output more amps with less temp on the heatsink.

//I will next try to get 3phase mirroring halfbridge to get full 320VDC without N line. I figured N is only slowing the system down. //

EDIT: This would not work, since one phase would allways be in short...
Well back to water cooling then.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

since the charger is now working rather well, i wanted to modify the controls some. 
My batteries through 30A+ charge run quite high at 3.4V and in the end couple tends to overtake toward 3.8V. BMS sees that and stops the charge in time. However at least 10 cells are not yet in balancing phase. So if i want to level the top i have to reduce charging phase to 5A and let them start balancing slowly at 3.6V. 

My BMS has one output to stop the charger and one output to send a signal to reduce charging when first cell starts to balance. I intended to use this command to lower the charge to 4A. 

Can I use "drop110power" function to lower power on command during charging? Or is this conditional checked only in the begginning of charge. 
It would be ideal to use just one more relay.

Also i noticed charger doesnt go into CV mode AT ALL!!! It just waits like 5s (?) when it reaches preset voltage and then goes out. Is that normal? Are my cells so big charger cant see voltage drop? 
I got idea for how to end the charge. After charging with 30A or 50A charger would quit and go to lower/balancing charge of 2A (preset) it will hover there for a preset time and then quit completely. This way it would alow for some lower cells to catch up. I see a trend in my pack 32 cells are balancing but 10 are just shy of balancing when the charger quits. If i set the charger to end at 3.8V per cell other cells would go to 3.8V and BMS will cut off. But if i charge at 2A or 4A, the BMS manages to hold other cells untill all reach 3.6V and then quits.
Usualy they need cca 15min to balance at 4A. How would you do this in code? Add some lines or maybe change CV phase since it is quite useless with me.

tnx

Arber


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## Micro (Oct 20, 2013)

Any part numbers or links on the web for the +-12VDC power supply?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> can you try running into a resistive load?


I must be overlooking something. I un-commented #define debug and tried to run the "large resistive load" test with number of cells set to 70. I get "battery disconnected...press any button to ignore...". Press a button it displays the "Type 1..." screen indicating it is starting CC mode, then I get the "battery disconnected..." screen again. Sometimes it just keeps re-displaying the "battery disconnected..." message again and again when I press a button, but each time it did try to start type 1 it just gave me that message again.

It seems that the firmware is inconsistent now, it doesn't always do the same thing, sometimes it displays different screens, other times it skips them. Never did that before. It was always very consistent. Seems there is something it doesn't like. I also noticed that in earlier tests with the V13 driver board and the charger connected to the battery, it said the input voltage was 184V. The AC voltage was 244V. In these resistive load tests it said the input voltage was 193V. The AC voltage was again over 240V.


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

OK, I have recieved my kit and am unable to correlate the parts with the BOM since I have the combination V12-V13 boards. I believe I may be missing a few resistors but I have a large assortment on my shelf. I began the assembly working with what I can feel confident about in the directions and parts on hand.

The first questions to arise are on the driver board. What is the wattage of resistor R53, the outline on the board is huge and the 200K resistor I have is 1/8 watt? How close does R16 need to be to the 90-100 ohm callout? (provided in my kit are a couple 120 ohm resistors) R17 is called out as 3.3K, the part provided is 3.5K and the part number on the BOM is for 3.6K, will any of them work? I remember from long ago that resistor and capacitor values were generally pretty soft.

respectfully,
John


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## Micro (Oct 20, 2013)

Any idea who is going to answer?

what is the part number for the +-12VDC power supply unit.

pictures? link to the SMPS?

PLEASE SOME ONE?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Micro said:


> Any idea who is going to answer?
> 
> what is the part number for the +-12VDC power supply unit.
> 
> ...


Just use 2A 12VDC power supply for laptops, strip the plastic off and glue it to the casing. Resolder the wires and add some connectors. I used some pertinax to isolate between PSU and aluminum housing.

A


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## Micro (Oct 20, 2013)

arber333 said:


> Just use 2A 12VDC power supply for laptops, strip the plastic off and glue it to the casing. Resolder the wires and add some connectors. I used some pertinax to isolate between PSU and aluminum housing.
> 
> A


Hmmm


But that not what I mean!!!

there are two power supplies in the schematic. U3 U4

and its +12V GND -12V

to supply the DRIVER BOARD


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> since the charger is now working rather well, i wanted to modify the controls some.
> My batteries through 30A+ charge run quite high at 3.4V and in the end couple tends to overtake toward 3.8V. BMS sees that and stops the charge in time. However at least 10 cells are not yet in balancing phase. So if i want to level the top i have to reduce charging phase to 5A and let them start balancing slowly at 3.6V.
> ...


HI Arber - drop110power is active only at the beginning of charge cycle.

re switching to CV point - what is your CV setting now? If the voltage does not drop in those 5 seconds after CC stage finishes, the charger will exhibit the behavior you described. This would normally happen when you either use low CV point (e.g. 3.4V) or low C rate (e.g., 10A into a 180AH cell).


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> OK, I have recieved my kit and am unable to correlate the parts with the BOM since I have the combination V12-V13 boards. I believe I may be missing a few resistors but I have a large assortment on my shelf. I began the assembly working with what I can feel confident about in the directions and parts on hand.
> 
> The first questions to arise are on the driver board. What is the wattage of resistor R53, the outline on the board is huge and the 200K resistor I have is 1/8 watt? How close does R16 need to be to the 90-100 ohm callout? (provided in my kit are a couple 120 ohm resistors) R17 is called out as 3.3K, the part provided is 3.5K and the part number on the BOM is for 3.6K, will any of them work? I remember from long ago that resistor and capacitor values were generally pretty soft.
> 
> ...


Hi John - 

R53 is 2W. You should have a couple of units of 200KZCT-ND in your box - please let me know if missing. 

20-30% tolerance on R16, R17 is ok. 

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Micro said:


> Hmmm
> 
> 
> But that not what I mean!!!
> ...


in the BOM, posted on http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/, there is a reference to a part number you are looking for. 102-2065-ND in DigiKey. I really encourage you to read through the materials available on that site.

PS. The supply's outputs are +15 and -15V, not 12V. 12V is the input.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I must be overlooking something. I un-commented #define debug and tried to run the "large resistive load" test with number of cells set to 70. I get "battery disconnected...press any button to ignore...". Press a button it displays the "Type 1..." screen indicating it is starting CC mode, then I get the "battery disconnected..." screen again. Sometimes it just keeps re-displaying the "battery disconnected..." message again and again when I press a button, but each time it did try to start type 1 it just gave me that message again.
> 
> It seems that the firmware is inconsistent now, it doesn't always do the same thing, sometimes it displays different screens, other times it skips them. Never did that before. It was always very consistent. Seems there is something it doesn't like. I also noticed that in earlier tests with the V13 driver board and the charger connected to the battery, it said the input voltage was 184V. The AC voltage was 244V. In these resistive load tests it said the input voltage was 193V. The AC voltage was again over 240V.


Tom - input voltage reading is now an approximate reading and is only used to decide whether the input is 120V or 240V. The mid-point is 180 so anything over 180 is treated as 240V. 

Please make sure you use the latest version of the firmware from http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/30 - Firmware/charger_2013_07_31_V12/. I have just uploaded the latest (the previous version had 10/14 timestamp so should have already been the latest but just in case I re-uploaded).

So I understand this correctly - you are saying that you [sometimes?] see the charger go into CC type=1 and exit right away even before you get the duty screen?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> HI Arber - drop110power is active only at the beginning of charge cycle.
> 
> re switching to CV point - what is your CV setting now? If the voltage does not drop in those 5 seconds after CC stage finishes, the charger will exhibit the behavior you described. This would normally happen when you either use low CV point (e.g. 3.4V) or low C rate (e.g., 10A into a 180AH cell).


Yes i tried to change input with DPDT switch and the charger didnt even flinch. I will have to check one of the free inputs and write some code . Will take a while...

Please tell me more about CV. I set my charger to end at 3.70V and my BMS is programmed to shunt at 3.60V per cell. So the charger should go into CV just by the fact BMS drains 2A from the cells, but it does not. Is there a constant i missed?

TNX

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Yes i tried to change input with DPDT switch and the charger didnt even flinch. I will have to check one of the free inputs and write some code . Will take a while...
> 
> Please tell me more about CV. I set my charger to end at 3.70V and my BMS is programmed to shunt at 3.60V per cell. So the charger should go into CV just by the fact BMS drains 2A from the cells, but it does not. Is there a constant i missed?
> 
> ...


Hi

On other hand, is it possible to program the charger to go to 2A for some 15min in the end instead of CV? I think CV is not really needed with LiFe cells. 

Can you help?
I need a free input for arduino to register my command. From your schematics all except BMS are outputs. Couldnt i change a port in software to have a different state (drain input) so when receiving input from +5V trough a relay charger would go intu 2A (4A) cycle and charge balanced cells. Eventually would shut down due to all cells reaching their limit and BMS signaling to stop. I was thinking of using D11 port since i dont use relay.

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi
> 
> On other hand, is it possible to program the charger to go to 2A for some 15min in the end instead of CV? I think CV is not really needed with LiFe cells.
> 
> ...


yes you can easily reprogram any digital pin for input or output. This is done in the setup() function in the firmware.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys - some developments on Isolation stage. Posted at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13349&start=400 if you are interested.


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

There was only one 2 watt resistor in the box. I have a 5 watt 5% one in my parts box and can use it. It isn't worth the expense of mailing a single resistor since I have a sub.

I have been plodding along a little each day and will let you know if I find any other parts missing. I did find a glitch in the build notes though. In the driver board V13 section it calls for caps C30 and C31 to be installed but Ctrl F in Express PCB shows them to be on the control board. It also calls for R16 to be installed twice.

respectfully,
John


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> HI Arber - drop110power is active only at the beginning of charge cycle.
> 
> re switching to CV point - what is your CV setting now? If the voltage does not drop in those 5 seconds after CC stage finishes, the charger will exhibit the behavior you described. This would normally happen when you either use low CV point (e.g. 3.4V) or low C rate (e.g., 10A into a 180AH cell).


Huh, i checked and tested. My setting is 3,65V per cell and 42 cells make it 153V. One of my cells at 35A goes right through BMS limit 3,8V, so charger off... What would happen at 60A!!!
At 10A cells come pretty much together and charger waits 5s at 153V and then off!!! No CV at all. I tried at 15A - the same!!! I tried to set cells as 60Ah, 100Ah, 200Ah, all the same.

I would really like to have a secondary charge at cca 4A so charger could revert there when it is stopped by BMS. At 4A i got really well tapered balancing to 3,65V per cell. Also at that charge cells stayed at this voltage through the night. 

A


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Hi guys, I made video in where I discuss using the EMW charger


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

The V12 BOM file here: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/
has an xps file extension. What program uses this type file? The version of Excel I have uses .xls. Has this changed with a newer Excel version?


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

tomofreno said:


> The V12 BOM file here: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/
> has an xps file extension. What program uses this type file? The version of Excel I have uses .xls. Has this changed with a newer Excel version?


Kind of PDF document structure by Microsoft I believe. It's available here "http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11816"

2010Ranger


----------



## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Has the "hardware kit" add-on been created yet? I don't see it in the online store and I don't have close access to a source of stand-offs and the like. Ordering them off the internet is not logical since it would take so many to make an order that wouldn't end up being more shiping and handling than parts.

respectfully,
John


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> Has the "hardware kit" add-on been created yet? I don't see it in the online store and I don't have close access to a source of stand-offs and the like. Ordering them off the internet is not logical since it would take so many to make an order that wouldn't end up being more shiping and handling than parts.
> 
> respectfully,
> John


Hi John, you are right, of course. We have just documented all the hardware pieces that would be ideal in the SmartCharge assembly. Will be putting up a product later this week. Total of 143 hardware pieces, out of which only 9 are somewhat special. But we do understand that it's easier to get them from a single place. So this is coming.

Thanks for pushing!

valery


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi John, you are right, of course. We have just documented all the hardware pieces that would be ideal in the SmartCharge assembly. Will be putting up a product later this week. Total of 143 hardware pieces, out of which only 9 are somewhat special. But we do understand that it's easier to get them from a single place. So this is coming.
> 
> Thanks for pushing!
> 
> valery


should we include the wiring?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> should we include the wiring?


hardware kit spec below. Looks good?


----------



## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

It looks like you doubled up on the bridge to power board connection with both #10 wire and 3/4" stand offs.

Personally, as a controls electrician, I don't need the wires but probably many others do so I would put them in just to make it "complete." I did order some of the pololu wires and fittings and it was in the $50 range to get an assortment of pre-crimped wires and housings so putting them in would probably help most people keep the cost down, I just thought I would like to have some on the shelf for some other projects.

Another option might be to put the silicone in the kit as well "IF" you can get a decent price on it by the case or in some sort of bulk.

Of course, all these items will make the price higher, but the simplicity of getting it all at one place would be worth it, at least to me.

respectfully,
John


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> It looks like you doubled up on the bridge to power board connection with both #10 wire and 3/4" stand offs.
> 
> Personally, as a controls electrician, I don't need the wires but probably many others do so I would put them in just to make it "complete." I did order some of the pololu wires and fittings and it was in the $50 range to get an assortment of pre-crimped wires and housings so putting them in would probably help most people keep the cost down, I just thought I would like to have some on the shelf for some other projects.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback, John. 

Re that bridge to power board connection, we would not use #10 copper wire if we use the standoffs. Standoffs are more complex but make it easier to disassemble things if needed.

We will be pricing this complete wire+hardware kit next week. Will see if we can add the silicone, as well. 

Thanks,
V


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

That is my point, the parts list you posted showed both the wire and the standoffs for the bridge to power board connection. You only need one or the other and my vote would be for the standoffs for the reason you stated, ease of disassembly for repair.

respectfully,
John


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

John N said:


> That is my point, the parts list you posted showed both the wire and the standoffs for the bridge to power board connection. You only need one or the other and my vote would be for the standoffs for the reason you stated, ease of disassembly for repair.
> 
> respectfully,
> John


Val, I'm with John on this and the wiring. Your product is at a point at which the smallest of things add tremendous value in making it a "complete" kit. If someone wants to add pin stripes they can make that decision on their own.

Respectfully,
2010Ranger


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I still dont get reliable CV phase. Let me explain:

First i charge with 35A untill charger reaches preset voltage in my case 3,65. Then it kind of goes to CV phase, ramping current very slowly. But only for 30s or so and it doesnt even reaches 10A and shutdown.
Also my cells are 3,6V while at 30A, but when charger releases voltage falls to 3,45V per cell... This is no use for balancing and so my cells are cca 0,2V apart when charger stops. BMS doesnt even have the chance to balance couple of cells. 

Should i change some constants? Which ones?
Or should i change voltage per cell in the begginning?

How does this statement function? Should i use 37 here to have higher CV or should i use 35 to start CV lower? Remember my BMS starts balancing at 3,6V per cell
"// CV constant (N/A for LA, Ni)
const int CVs[4]={36, -10}; // in 0.1V units; charging voltage for CALB 3.6V per cell. Using 3.55 here to ensure reliable detecion of end-of-charge for a bottom-balanced pack"

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I still dont get reliable CV phase. Let me explain:
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - 

You would want to set CV higher than your BMS balancing point. My guess is that 0.05V extra is just not enough given the low cell count and finite precision of voltage control. I would set CV at 3.7V or even 3.8V (assuming you have BMS shut-off wired into the charger). 

Regarding shutoff current in CV step - it is set to 5% of AH capacity in the firmware. You can change it to 1% or whatever you want to match your BMW shunting capacity. If your BMS is able to shunt 1A, I would set your termination current to 2-3A (or 1.5% for 180AH cells). Look for the following line:
---------
const float min_CV_Crating=0.05; // wait until the current goes to XC (use values from your battery's datasheet)
---------
you would change this to 
---------
const float min_CV_Crating=0.015; // wait until the current goes to XC (use values from your battery's datasheet)
----------

Let us know how it works.

thanks,
Valery


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery, what is the mz requirement for an oscilloscope to test these chargers?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Valery, what is the mz requirement for an oscilloscope to test these chargers?


anything higher than 10MHz would work - this is a relatively low-frequency power supply (20-22kHz).

We love Owon units - have 3 of them now in our labs - a 30Mhz version can be had for less than $300 new from http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OWON-SD...30675?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3f205ee953

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber -
> 
> You would want to set CV higher than your BMS balancing point. My guess is that 0.05V extra is just not enough given the low cell count and finite precision of voltage control. I would set CV at 3.7V or even 3.8V (assuming you have BMS shut-off wired into the charger).
> 
> ...


Hi Valery

Yes! Today i changed CV constant to 37 and the response was my charger went to 0% duty and 0.0A when it reached 153V, as i manualy set CV 3,65V per cell. BUT it just stood there for couple of seconds and then very slowly started ramping current and going towards 153V again. When it reached 5A and 153V it went to 0% again and repeated... By then my BMS finished when all of my cells reached balancing treshold. I never see the CV display you show on video. 
Could this be a problem? My software is now V12.

For a second test i left CV constant at 37 and changed manual CV to 3.60V and programmed my BMS to start to balance at 3,6V. We ll see...

I use Sinopoly 200Ah cells, so const float 0,05 is applicable. I balance with 2A, but i am considering the heat! I guess 1A will be enough. I also use BMS termination i mentioned above - when all cells balance, charger is off. 
Also charger goes off if any cell goes trough 3,78V.

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well, i guess system works with tapering current and holding duty cycle, but i still dont see the actual CV screen. System at 152V goes down to 0% duty and slowly ramps towards 5A, then goes down to 0% duty again and repeats. All the time it goes up to 152V. 
But it does not finish charging if i dont use balancing! If i leave BMS line closed charger goes towards 0% duty at 152V and in the morning it holds at 0% duty 0,00A and red LED for EOC is on! That means charger doesnt know when to cutoff on itself.

I have a closed loop from EOC - BMS. However i added parallel line from EOC to opto port of arduino relay. This relay is signaling charger state with red and green LED. It has its own power from +5V on the board. I only use EOC to trigger optocoupler with low state. Schematic attached.... 

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

OK !!! i have a problem now.
For some time now i am using newer V12 firmware.
Today I changed CV constant to 38 and tried to charge with V12 firmware. But first time i plugged my charger 3phase it tripped fuses. I reset everything and tried again. This time it went ok. But input voltage is now only 120V no matter if i measure from + directly or from 2M resistor split. However cap voltage is 330VDC! Some software thing?

I decided to try the old V11 firmware and it worked the first time. Normal 285V input and 33A out! Huh but CV doesnt work hee it only shows mode 2 screen and then goes out. It dont even shows the duty screen.

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> OK !!! i have a problem now.
> For some time now i am using newer V12 firmware.
> Today I changed CV constant to 38 and tried to charge with V12 firmware. But first time i plugged my charger 3phase it tripped fuses. I reset everything and tried again. This time it went ok. But input voltage is now only 120V no matter if i measure from + directly or from 2M resistor split. However cap voltage is 330VDC! Some software thing?
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - this is most likely due to #define switches not matching your configuration. Please check instructions in the manual for how to configure new firmware for your driver boards


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

While playing with Arduino software i thought of a way to reduce charger at will.
Actually it is already implemented. Thermistor loop!

I put a relay and one 80K resistor in paralel with thermistor to get high temp signaling. Relay is triggered by BMS reduce port. In effect it comes on when first cell reaches balancing state. At that point i see charger temp at 55°C and when i apply resistor temp jumps to 72°C. In effect this automaticaly reduces charge rate to cca 8A. Perfect for balancing in the end. 

However, what i also see is when i remove the resistor charger doesnt resume duty but stays at 8A even temperature now shows 36°C. 
Valery can you help? I use V11 software now. Is there an exit from this reduction loop other than charger manual reset? 
Maybe some return function?

TNX

A


----------



## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

One quick question... There're instructions in MOD pdf file regarding 3 phase rectifying circuit; why are they restricted to non-PFC version only? In my understanding output from bridges is just DC with some ripple, as long as it is within ~450V max. should be fine for PFC stage input, am I missing something?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

z_power said:


> One quick question... There're instructions in MOD pdf file regarding 3 phase rectifying circuit; why are they restricted to non-PFC version only? In my understanding output from bridges is just DC with some ripple, as long as it is within ~450V max. should be fine for PFC stage input, am I missing something?


Yes you are right - this should be fine. I think we meant that you are not going to have PFC functionality in this case. Your power factor will be poor despite the fact that you have a PFC stage.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> While playing with Arduino software i thought of a way to reduce charger at will.
> Actually it is already implemented. Thermistor loop!
> 
> I put a relay and one 80K resistor in paralel with thermistor to get high temp signaling. Relay is triggered by BMS reduce port. In effect it comes on when first cell reaches balancing state. At that point i see charger temp at 55°C and when i apply resistor temp jumps to 72°C. In effect this automaticaly reduces charge rate to cca 8A. Perfect for balancing in the end.
> ...


Bonus points for creativity!

There is no 'hold' in that loop - as soon as the temp reduces, the charger should ramp the current back up. My guess is that it does not do that for the same reason you are not seeing CV loop. 

Let's try the following: reduce the value of spreadV to 1.0 (instead of 2.0 default) and see if that helps.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I will try that with spreadV...

Here is the schematic and MY wiring. Later i figured how to simplify it, and will post it after work after i try it in action. 

Another thing!
Lately i am seeing a cell that while at 30A charge keeps getting higher. It reaches Vmax value on my BMS and charger stops. But after this cell voltage falls inside the range with the rest of the pack. But the most curious thing is if i charge with 10A this cell will ramp up slower than the rest and will usually reach 3,55V last one from the pack, even though it was the first in line at 30A!!
Anyone care to explain?

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

z_power said:


> One quick question... There're instructions in MOD pdf file regarding 3 phase rectifying circuit; why are they restricted to non-PFC version only? In my understanding output from bridges is just DC with some ripple, as long as it is within ~450V max. should be fine for PFC stage input, am I missing something?


I am running nonPFC charger at 33A steady with 55°C temp. BUT i have half bridge setup with neutral hooked directly to caps negative input. 
It works but i see my cables are getting warm quite a bit. Probably current ripple in neutral line  it is getting crowded there...

However i see/hear quite a bit less inductor hummm with 3phase vs 1phase. Also i dont get any shock from the battery terminals when i touch them. Ok i dont usually touch teminals!!! Freak... :].

I dont see why we couldnt use 3phase with PFC setup, since it would mean less ripple and more power trough smaller cables.

Another thing; why couldnt we simply modify charger for 600VDC operation. Which components to replace? I belive sheer ease of connection and power of full bridge 3phase would outweight price of components. Also we wouldnt need PFC would we? We would also need less smoothing caps across 3phase bridge and there would be no EMI usually associated with N line and GND.
Oh the power....

Your toughts anyone?


----------



## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks valerun and arber333, that clarifies a lot, however I'll keep asking questions if you don't mind 
If PFC is a must and we'd like to avoid higher DC link voltage like 560Vrms/690V peak maybe we could use 3 paralleled PFC stages feeding common DC link? With modular structure of Valery's design this shouldn't be hard and these 3 modules could be smaller, in ~5 kW range - with cheaper inductors and IGBTs. Opinions?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Bonus points for creativity!
> 
> There is no 'hold' in that loop - as soon as the temp reduces, the charger should ramp the current back up. My guess is that it does not do that for the same reason you are not seeing CV loop.
> 
> Let's try the following: reduce the value of spreadV to 1.0 (instead of 2.0 default) and see if that helps.


I looked up the code. I noticed before that when calibrating charger offers me 2 - 3V less than actual voltage. Could this be because of the spreadV parameter?

Can you also suggest how to setup following parameters to charge cells to 3,6V? Why is maxBattVs at 3,8, Is it not better to have maxBattVs at cca 3,6 and CV constant a little higher?
_____________________________________________________________
// CV constant (N/A for LA, Ni)
const float CVs[4]={3.5, -1, -1, 4.2}; // charging voltage for CALB 3.6V per cell. Using 3.55 here to ensure reliable detecion of end-of-charge for a bottom-balanced pack

// absolute maximum voltage
const float maxBattVs[4]={3.8, 1.6, 15., 4.5};
_____________________________________________________________

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> I looked up the code. I noticed before that when calibrating charger offers me 2 - 3V less than actual voltage. Could this be because of the spreadV parameter?
> 
> Can you also suggest how to setup following parameters to charge cells to 3,6V? Why is maxBattVs at 3,8, Is it not better to have maxBattVs at cca 3,6 and CV constant a little higher?
> _____________________________________________________________
> ...


spreadV does not affect calibration, only the loop behavior

I would not touch maxbattv - it is there to prevent you from setting CV too high by mistake.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> spreadV does not affect calibration, only the loop behavior
> 
> I would not touch maxbattv - it is there to prevent you from setting CV too high by mistake.


Ok i wont...

Actually i already succesfully installed V12 software. I set it up and tried to charge. Currently it is sending 45A to the battery. Actually i belive with new software the inductor hum is even less!

I tested temperature reduction of course. It is working wery well. At 55°C i enter the reduction and it starts to ramp down the current. At 75°C it can hold cca 13A. I am using 26K resistor in paralel with 100K NTC (actual 35K at 50°C). I belive i will use 18K resistor or such to simulate 80°C and have less than 10A charging current.

While measuring temp i figured charger is not so hot even for 55°C. How does your measuring work? Because i figured the heatsink is not realy that hot - maybe some 45°C - while thermistor shows 55°C... Even inductor is only warm not hot. Could you uprate charger manualy? 

Can you explain? 

tnx

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Ok i wont...
> 
> Actually i already succesfully installed V12 software. I set it up and tried to charge. Currently it is sending 45A to the battery. Actually i belive with new software the inductor hum is even less!
> 
> ...


Good to hear, Arber!

Thermistor temp is real. 

Valery.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Good to hear, Arber!
> 
> Thermistor temp is real.
> 
> Valery.


OK i see, i wont bother with this then .

I must say i succesfully charged couple of times now with relay throwing resistor/thermistor in paralel and display showed 75°C. 
I use 100K (30K at 55°C) thermistor + 16K resistor in paralel. Anything higher will cause "overtemperature" to kick in.
Current was holding at 12A. Not ideal for balancing, but close enough for my BMS to hold and batteries to level off. 
However i notice that once over 70°C charger doesnt resume 30A if i return to normal condition. This isnt a problem, since lowering current is expected after a long charge with BMS activated.

CC/CV transition still doesnt work! But now at least my charger finishes batteries to 100%.

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

OK now to open a new position

I read about J1772 standard and i see a resemblance with EU Mennekes connector we use for triphase. 

My question is, could i use this connector to intelligently command charger to reduce current to 5A? Vhat would be the input voltage (or current) required? 

I could feed this port from +5V or +12V of control board trough a resistor divider and BMS relay. I guess that could achieve finer control over current.
Would that work?

tnx 

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I got some strange behavior from charger yesterday. When i connected the plug it tripped my fuses! Pins L and N had burn marks on them. So i suspect there lies the problem. 

BUT all i changed from last time was i added a gnd line from mains power to the car chassis. Charger i s still floating. Should i connect gnd wire to the charger case? 
The problem is i dont use gnd line in triphase and it still tripped the fuses!

Also if i manualy switch the fuses to ON position, charger starts and is working normaly. Should i be worried?

EDIT: I found my precharge relay is burned in closed position! I replaced it with normal 25A contactor.
I am now trying to setup a precharge trough 12V relay from the control board, but the power comes on instantly. Someone discussed here he used those pins for precharge. Please can you help me how to set this up so i could have cca 10s delay? 

tnx

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> I got some strange behavior from charger yesterday. When i connected the plug it tripped my fuses! Pins L and N had burn marks on them. So i suspect there lies the problem.
> 
> BUT all i changed from last time was i added a gnd line from mains power to the car chassis. Charger i s still floating. Should i connect gnd wire to the charger case?
> The problem is i dont use gnd line in triphase and it still tripped the fuses!
> ...


I recommend driving precharge relay from the firmware. This way you don't have to mess with analog circuits and can control delay duration etc without resoldering stuff.

V


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> I recommend driving precharge relay from the firmware. This way you don't have to mess with analog circuits and can control delay duration etc without resoldering stuff.
> 
> V


OK i checked and i havent even installed mosfet to drive the fan. This due to the fact that i use 230VAC fan. 

Can you advise me if i can use IRF510 mosfet instead of PSMN2R0-30PL? I have them plenty at home and i dont expect i will be switching more than 100mA for precharge relay. Gate treshold voltage is cca 4V!? Good enough? 
The relay will in turn drive 230V 25A contactor. Should do the job.

tnx

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> OK i checked and i havent even installed mosfet to drive the fan. This due to the fact that i use 230VAC fan.
> 
> Can you advise me if i can use IRF510 mosfet instead of PSMN2R0-30PL? I have them plenty at home and i dont expect i will be switching more than 100mA for precharge relay. Gate treshold voltage is cca 4V!? Good enough?
> The relay will in turn drive 230V 25A contactor. Should do the job.
> ...


Try it - gate resistor ~100R. V


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Thanks for an update! Yes, those NTCs are a bit sensitive to mechanic disturbances (e.g., we had them outside the box on a couple of units and under a bit of flex at full power, they deteriorate with time). So best to ensure their leads cannot move relative to each other. And for full power, best to parallel 2 of them.
> 
> Precharge is best, of course, but requires more components. One trick we are now using in our units here is an 10K resistor across the output diode. If you battery is ~ or more than 200V, this will keep the main caps charged to that voltage and most of the inrush will go away.
> 
> If you decide to do a proper precharge, do what Johannes suggested - use fan turn-on signal for a precharge relay, as well. That point in code is usually reached 15 seconds after AC is connected - plenty for a proper precharge circuit (with 10000uF main caps, you need to have R<500 Ohm for RC<5 seconds; 330R is a good choice. has to be able to absorb 500 Joules and not blow up so one of those aluminum-case 10W resistors might be best)


Valery i read some older posts and found this one. Why wasnt this put into the mods file? It would save me and others a couple of timer relays...

Also, can you explain, would changing fan port to precharge relay port work with the current code as is or would i have to modify code regarding temperature response?

Now i figured to use only 2222 transistor to switch on precharge relay (small arduino relay) and hold. No need for mosfet to do that.

tnx

Arber


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery i read some older posts and found this one. Why wasnt this put into the mods file? It would save me and others a couple of timer relays...
> 
> Also, can you explain, would changing fan port to precharge relay port work with the current code as is or would i have to modify code regarding temperature response?
> 
> ...


will add - thanks for digging this up! small correction on the inrush resistors - we now advise against paralleling but rather ship 2 resistors of lower R value that we recommend putting in each leg of the input AC power.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

cool update on isolated charger design posted at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=371754#post371754

we got to 20kW!


----------



## ZCWcara (Nov 27, 2013)

hiya you may also be interested in this YouTube film on how to build your own Charging Station http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPUdKC2wl0&feature=youtu.be 
and you can get the parts here: http://shop.zerocarbonworld.org/Charging-Station-Components/


----------



## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Valerun,

Just another push for the hardware kit.

respectfully,
John


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> will add - thanks for digging this up! small correction on the inrush resistors - we now advise against paralleling but rather ship 2 resistors of lower R value that we recommend putting in each leg of the input AC power.


Valery, 

I would have a suggestion on how to modify prechage circuit without changing anything on the board.
When i read the code i found out you already had D4 wired to trigger after 15s . Instant precharge. I use 12V arduino relay module and trigger it with pulse from D4. For power i use +12V and GND pins on the same connector.

This small relay joins contacts on one 230VAC 25A 2 pole contactor. But for first 15s there is a 150R 150W resistor (a bit overkill) across relay contacts to reduce current to caps. It works here.

Drawing follows...

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Also i would like to ask another q.

I intend to use "pin_110relay" on pin D11 as input to drop power to 10A as BMS starts to shunt. 
Can i just declare this pin as INPUT and add 10k pulldown resistor to GND? The same way BMS is configured? 
I would declare D11 active HIGH. I could get positive signal from 12V/5V on board. 2nd BMS relay would then signal balancing.

Also what do you suggest i do in the code? I tought of using a simple float function.

I would set up new variable for derating:
"float maxOutC2=10" // max 10A for slower balancing in the end

Then I would set up condition:

If(pin_110relay, HIGH) { //condition met, BMS shunting, 
maxOutC2=maxOutC // limited to 10A,
}
else {
maxOutC1=maxOutC // return maxoutC control to charger 
}

Would resistor be ok in the end when charger is finished, since you switch relay off in the end. I think current to caps would be very small at that time. 
Would that work for digital derating? 

tnx

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

All - latest firmware update posted on http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/30 - Firmware/V12/

Biggest change is the proper support for the latest version of the LCD that is being sent out with the kits. If you received your kit in November, you will definitely need this firmware. As usual, you would install the libs into your Arduino-0022 folder and the actual firmware in the folder of your choice.

Plus a couple of other relatively minor tweaks to improve things here and there.

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Also i would like to ask another q.
> 
> I intend to use "pin_110relay" on pin D11 as input to drop power to 10A as BMS starts to shunt.
> Can i just declare this pin as INPUT and add 10k pulldown resistor to GND? The same way BMS is configured?
> ...


this is ok but you need to do 
-------
maxOutC=maxOutC1
--------

and not the other way around


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> this is ok but you need to do
> -------
> maxOutC=maxOutC1
> --------
> ...


OK will correct! 
It was just stupid copy paste glitch .

Do you think 150R 150W resistor will hold after charger finishes charging cycle (or BMS cut-off for some reason) and precharge relay will open contactor will open. How much current do you think caps will draw? Resistor could be on its own for hours!!! 

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Arber - if I understand correctly how you plan to connect that resistor, then yes, it will be fine (connected across the relay). You don't actually need it nearly that powerful as the caps don't draw any current once they are charged. When fully charged, they contain max of 10,000uF * 400^2 /2 = 800 Joules. With a 150R resistor, your RC time constant is ~1.5 seconds. ~1/2 of the total energy gets delivered during that time. So you have instantaneous power of ~250W for 1.5 seconds. Power resistors generally can withstand momentary overload by 10x pretty easily. So anything above 25W would do for your application. 

We use 330R 10W resistor for precharge in our new 25kW units.

Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> Valerun,
> 
> Just another push for the hardware kit.
> 
> ...


Hi John - will try to do today!


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## dscherbarth (Dec 6, 2013)

had an e-mail exchange with Valery that he asked me to post here:

I had a minor mishap placing the control board display and ended up ordering another from sparkfun. I bread boarded the display to supply power and got the 4d systems initial display. after adding to the control board and verifying power however i don't seem to be able to see anything on the display and can't get the arduino to see it either... any idea's on how to debug in place? would rather not buy another...

Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks
Doug

Hi Doug - sorry about the lag in response. I will reply here but could you pls report your question and my reply to DIYecar forum at http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=372512?

Now to the answer - it's actually relatively simple: 

In their infinite wisdom, 4D systems (the LCD manufacturer) has decided to change the entire API in their latest LCD release. As a result, everyone's applications broke. IMO someone should get fired in their product management team for this... Anyway, we had to spend a few days rewriting our code to support the new display and the latest is now posted to our site at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/30 - Firmware/V12/. It should run out of the box for you but (as usual) pls make sure the '#define' switches in the code match your board configuration.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I found an application note that seems to address this issue:
http://www.4dsystems.com.au/downloa...- Migrating from PICASO-SGC-GFX to PICASO.pdf

But I don't particularly like that they have removed all documentation for the previous versions from their website and provide it only to existing customers upon special request. I suppose this is a problem with single source components, which should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

Here is a video that may show how to set up the new displays:


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I found an application note that seems to address this issue:
> http://www.4dsystems.com.au/downloa...- Migrating from PICASO-SGC-GFX to PICASO.pdf
> 
> But I don't particularly like that they have removed all documentation for the previous versions from their website and provide it only to existing customers upon special request. I suppose this is a problem with single source components, which should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.
> ...


Thanks Paul - yes, we've got all these docs from them as 'migration assistance'. We are using same displays in our JuiceBox EVSE & our first order was 500 units with them so they paid a bit of attention to us... Still, we did not get any support beyond just a bunch of docs.

It was highly non-trivial. The Arduino library that they have written for the new display did not work for us as it took too much memory (both RAM and flash) and we run out of both on the Pro Mini). So we ended up spending 30-40 hours porting stuff over. I do not recommend to try that at home ;-)


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## dscherbarth (Dec 6, 2013)

Bringing up my charger this morning. Everything was going well until I went to test the pfc output voltage (supposed to be ~350v) but I had last used the fluke as an unfused current tester. bang!, fire and smoke :-( 

In looking to asses the damage, I find that 12v ps and controller board seem ok, but the driver board at least has the u8 smt chip burnt and does not pass 12v on to the controller board. Is it worth trying to replace u8? I don't see u8 on the schematic. Is there a reasonable way to test IGBT's to see if the perhaps survived?

Thanks for any thoughts.

edit: found driver board u8 (ir1153) and ordered a replacement. static ohmeter tests indicate that IGBT's may be ok...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

hi valerystill waiting for pictures to my diode bridge to power board clearance problem ?? .... also I received 3 ceramic resistors with my kit of 200k ohm value ( red /black / yello / gold ) ... I say ceramic because they are bigger and I believe ceramic coated and probrebly of larger wattage ... the thing is on your power board you ask for 2 resistors in the first step . r45 , r47 ... r47 no problem my problem is with r45 ... the pcb indicates a 82k ohm resistor is needed ..... I do not have any large resistors of that value ?? was there a change to the resistor made ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

oh and obviously let me know when you have written up the directions for the v.13 non pfc control board as I am waiting on this to build my control board . thank you .


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> oh and obviously let me know when you have written up the directions for the v.13 non pfc control board as I am waiting on this to build my control board . thank you .


the control board is the same as in PFC. Driver board is different - the following is not populated:
R5,6-PFC (populate R6-nonPFC instead),7,8,11,12,14,15,16,17,20
C32,33,34,35,36,37
U8

and the board is inserted with components facing the power board (instead of facing outside for the PFC version)

Thanks,
V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dscherbarth said:


> Bringing up my charger this morning. Everything was going well until I went to test the pfc output voltage (supposed to be ~350v) but I had last used the fluke as an unfused current tester. bang!, fire and smoke :-(
> 
> In looking to asses the damage, I find that 12v ps and controller board seem ok, but the driver board at least has the u8 smt chip burnt and does not pass 12v on to the controller board. Is it worth trying to replace u8? I don't see u8 on the schematic. Is there a reasonable way to test IGBT's to see if the perhaps survived?
> 
> ...


sorry to hear. I am actually surprised that you had parts fail because of this - it should have been just a straight discharge into your meter if you used terminals on the power board to measure...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> hi valerystill waiting for pictures to my diode bridge to power board clearance problem ?? .... also I received 3 ceramic resistors with my kit of 200k ohm value ( red /black / yello / gold ) ... I say ceramic because they are bigger and I believe ceramic coated and probrebly of larger wattage ... the thing is on your power board you ask for 2 resistors in the first step . r45 , r47 ... r47 no problem my problem is with r45 ... the pcb indicates a 82k ohm resistor is needed ..... I do not have any large resistors of that value ?? was there a change to the resistor made ?


use 200k instead of 82k - these are just bleed resistors for the caps. Will update instructions - thanks!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi John - will try to do today!


ok without going into too much of the pricing analysis, how about $49 for the full hardware & wiring kit? The latest count is ~200 pieces.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Yes, I think you're safe now.
> 
> On the calibration issue, I'd like you to snap some photos of your calibration steps (better yet, a video) and post here. Something is off but shouldn't be threatening.


Hi Valery

Got my replacement IBGT/Driver/isolator fitted and got back to low voltage testing last weekend.
I have also realised that because I am using LIPO batteries not LIFEPO the nominal voltage for LIPO is 3.7v fully charged at 4.2v per single cell.
The firmware does not allow CV above 399 from the LIFEPO menu option which makes sense for LIFEPO.
Can you advise as to how I would modify the firmware to either add another menu option for LIPO (preferred option) or modify the LIFEPO option so that I can set a CV of 420 (which I am assuming is what I would need to do to fully charge my pack)

I also videoed my calibration sequence as you requested and posted it on my blog.
Below is the duty screen I ripped from the video as it flashes up very briefly before I get the "No AC connected" message











The video of the sequence is on my blog, latest post.

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk/

As you can see (on the video) the voltage is sensed at 72v not 76v as it should be, and the temp is obviously not working as well.
My battery pack is 36 x 18.5v 5S1P Turnigy LIPO configured as 4 series banks of 9 in parallel, so I am setting cell count to 20 (4x5s) and my capacity to 45AH.
This time I connected the battery via the 2 in rush resistors to avoid any potential spikes destroying anything as I read somewhere that if you are using a traction pack of over 150v then this was advised (my total pack is 222v although I am testing with just a third of it) this battery box is also separately fused with a 30A fuse.
And although the display refresh issue at first seemed to be cured by the latest firmware it seems that it does not clear the screen between stages (this is not a big issue however as I can still read the display now that the changing parts of the display update correctly)

Many Thanks

Graham


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## dscherbarth (Dec 6, 2013)

valerun said:


> sorry to hear. I am actually surprised that you had parts fail because of this - it should have been just a straight discharge into your meter if you used terminals on the power board to measure...


looks like pin 1 of u8 is where the smoke came out  yes attempt to measure on the terminals (lost the dvm probe ends and a little of the brass screws) I'll let you know how things look after i replace the pfc controller chip. The schematic i have does not show u8. i can probably intuit from the pcb. thanks


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

tomofreno said:


> You can find schematics and other documentation here:
> http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/
> 
> The thermocouple may be connected incorrectly to the control board. Should go to "temp" and GND pins. GND (ground) pin is the center one on the 5 pin header, "temp" is the bottom one. It will also give -68V reading if R48 is missing (no Vcc to the thermocouple).
> ...


Hi Tomofreno

I have the same -68 deg C issue, I do have R48 placed and on my V10 control board the GND pin is at the opposite end of the 5 pin connector not in the center (I checked the link you posted here and on the V12 control board it is in the center as you correctly state), I am trusting the screen print here on my V10 board! any ideas if the screen print is wrong here on the V10 board (Valery?) or has the control board thermistor wiring actualy changed that much between these 2 revisions of control board? I will check the actual circuit tonight to try and solve this.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Tomofreno
> 
> I have the same -68 deg C issue, I do have R48 placed and on my V10 control board the GND pin is at the opposite end of the 5 pin connector not in the center (I checked the link you posted here and on the V12 control board it is in the center as you correctly state), I am trusting the screen print here on my V10 board! any ideas if the screen print is wrong here on the V10 board (Valery?) or has the control board thermistor wiring actualy changed that much between these 2 revisions of control board? I will check the actual circuit tonight to try and solve this.


 I have a V10 control board also. It has been a while, but I am fairly confident it has the center pin as ground. Look at the back of the board and see which of the pins is connected to the ground plane. I know the pcb file shows the top pin is, but I think that is incorrect. I recall looking at my board and seeing that was the problem, changing it and having it work.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I have a V10 control board also. It has been a while, but I am fairly confident it has the center pin as ground. Look at the back of the board and see which of the pins is connected to the ground plane. I know the pcb file shows the top pin is, but I think that is incorrect. I recall looking at my board and seeing that was the problem, changing it and having it work.


Thanks Tom! You are absolutely correct.

V


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> Thanks Tom! You are absolutely correct.
> 
> V


Thanks Tom/Valery

Checked my board last night and sure enough the PCB file I have refers to the V9 board, my V10 board in closer to the V12 PCB file.

I have modified the loom to connect to the right pins, not tested it as yet.

Graham


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

My charger works good and for now i charge at 35A. I am working now on better air cooling fins to get to 50A continuous.

The problem i face now is EMI. My BMS is digital and works with twisted pair comm wires. Each input is secured with optocoupler that gets power from battery + and line is RCed with 10uF and 0,1uF capacitors. All wiring then goes to master unit which also uses input opto and uses 0,01uF across 330R resistor as RC filter to block low Hz pulses from the motor. It works in respect to motor EMI. 
But when i connect charger, duty continues and reaches 50% with 30A output. Cca 3s after that BMS gets crazy values and cuts charger off.
I had to physically separate charger from car chassis for the EMI to stop.
Now thing works, BUT i guess i violate some safety protocols...

I suspect BMS master gets 22kHz noise from IGBT trough GND input and it saturates RC filter on master unit? I suspect master because battery - is isolated from chassis so are BMS modules. 

Do you have any thoughts on the matter? How to solve it? Maybe some RC filter on +12/GND input into master, or if i use audio LC filter...? Hm

What about putting 100nF (ceramic cap) and 1uF (foil cap) in parallel with each 680uF cap on power board to filter more noise from IGBT? Would that help at all? I dont want to blow something up...

Also can you tell why did you decide to switch negative line with IGBT? Is it not positive line that gets chopped in normal UPS? 

tnx

Arber


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## kortas (Apr 18, 2012)

arber333 said:


> The problem i face now is EMI. My BMS is digital and works with twisted pair comm wires. Each input is secured with optocoupler that gets power from battery + and line is RCed with 10uF and 0,1uF capacitors.


It seems like you are using very similar system to BMS123. We have installed this system in Citroen Berlingo with "suspicious" onboard charger and the behaviour is the same. When charger starts charging then BMS stops receiving correct values (LEDs stop blinking).

I believe that the solution should be very similar in our cases (both Sagem or EMW Charger)... But still I have not found the proper way how to do it.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

kortas said:


> It seems like you are using very similar system to BMS123. We have installed this system in Citroen Berlingo with "suspicious" onboard charger and the behaviour is the same. When charger starts charging then BMS stops receiving correct values (LEDs stop blinking).
> 
> I believe that the solution should be very similar in our cases (both Sagem or EMW Charger)... But still I have not found the proper way how to do it.


Yes, before i used some shaddy 2kW chineese charger. It gave the same EMI. At the time i didnt think charger was to blame. I tought BMS was picking up noise from power lines. It seems problem runs in chassis connection to charger. Hm i wonder now... maybe i should put another tyco contactor to negative battery line just before inverter. To rule out the inverter capacitor bank ghost discharge!!! Maybe the power line is not wholly isolated (floating).

One solution would be to use stone age BMS with reference diode, resistor bridge and one transistor with no communication between modules .
I am now working on one such design using analog BMS and optocoupler connection connected in AND loop. So when at least one cell will start to balance, loop will be cut and charger will reduce. Afterwards charger will balance out as preprogrammed. Simple but effective. 
However it is hard to go backwards when you can see the voltage/position of each cell in the system...
I guess this is why old Russian technology uses spiders as indicators . If there is a spider nesting in the system and system works; leave it alone!!!

thoughts?

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> It seems problem runs in chassis connection to charger.
> 
> thoughts?


You mentioned that the BMS is getting some crazy values when charger is on - can you give some details? Is it on voltage, current, or both? What exactly does it report?

The high-frequency noise should be well filtered at the output of the charger - by 4x 680uF caps and a 15uF film cap. Additional capacitance won't help much. The only thing that might remain on the output is 120Hz ripple that' not completely suppressed by the output stage but that normally does not present problems. 

High frequency ripple on the input is higher but it should not be coupled to the box. Are you grounding the charger during charge?

Thanks,
Valery.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> You mentioned that the BMS is getting some crazy values when charger is on - can you give some details? Is it on voltage, current, or both? What exactly does it report?
> 
> The high-frequency noise should be well filtered at the output of the charger - by 4x 680uF caps and a 15uF film cap. Additional capacitance won't help much. The only thing that might remain on the output is 120Hz ripple that' not completely suppressed by the output stage but that normally does not present problems.
> 
> ...


Well i am seeing that BMS reports random values from min to max voltage per cell. So when it shows max voltage BMS automaticaly sends charger off signal.

When i measured signal with my Velleman pocket scope i got some 22kHz and nice square weave. I guess this is from IGBT. Also when i measure on BMS comm line i see the same signal overrriding comms square weave. When i looked closely i saw BMS signal is still present.
I actually use RC filter to suppress low frequency noise from motor control. It is most pronounced when motor is starting and freq control spits V/Hz into motor.

Yes i had Alu box bolted to frame, also household GND is connected to car. That is when BMS acted strange when charger reached 50% duty at 35A.

From then on i have charger on rubber sealant blocks bolted so it is not touching chassis. 
Do you think i should ground charger frame to house, but leave car chassis off? Not a good idea i belive.

A


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## AmpEater (Mar 10, 2008)

So I'm trying to get a J1772 system working with my juicebox and EMW 12000 charger. I bought the J1772 connector and sockets all from EMW. There are two smaller gauge pilot wires labled CC and CP. I'm assuming CP is pilot and connects to the brown wire on the EMW charger. Where does CC go? Ground? And does the charger need to be grounded for J1772 to work?

Thanks for any help! Can't wait to get a single charging setup for all my EVs


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i must say i made a lot of progress to-date. 

1. I reassembled the charger with 40mm cooling fins and 100A 3phase bridge. 
There is also a 50A single phase bridge which is switched on with another contactor. That way i can use single AND triphase trough SINGLE power connector. Sweet! Also i use simple voltage divider to lower power when using single phase. 

2. Today I ran it [email protected] and it worked to 50°C. Problem was my 1st phase threw a fuse after 15min. I measured and at 50A i have 16A consumption trough R. S and T are cca 14A! I guess contactors, fan and PSU take their 2A. 
I tried lowering charge and it worked at 45ADC. R-S-T remains stable and fuses are barely humming. All this is trough half weave rectified input with N connected directly to caps negative side. 

3. BMS noise is now gone! When i first assembled the charger i used two bolts to secure capacitor banks to diode bridges. Of course they were made of metal. Now when i use only a single 3phase bridge they are not needed anymore, so i made a new fixing from strong plastic. Presto - no EMI!
I guess there is allways something to learn...

I love this charger it is so small for the power output!

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

There is another thing i toy with now that i finished my charger and it works as it should.

TRIPHASE FULL BRIDGE!!!

Can you tell me Valery what exactly i should modify to get the charger working at 600VDC rectified?

1. use 1000V 200A IGBT
2. use 400V caps after rectifier
3. use paralel 400V caps on power board, or 600V caps
What about driver board? Would it manage 600V switching in the IGBT?

I think NONPFC charger using 3phase input would not have any trouble charging at most charging places. Europeans would be specialy interested!!!

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> There is another thing i toy with now that i finished my charger and it works as it should.
> 
> TRIPHASE FULL BRIDGE!!!
> 
> ...


Arber, you are on the bleeding edge! ;-))

Yes, the PCBs would handle the voltage - they are generally designed with 0.1" separation of HV traces. According to IPC standard for a permanently coated board, this is good up to about 800V. And those standards are quite conservative.

Your main issue will be elcaps. I would use 2 400V caps in series post-bridge, replace 2 film caps on power board with 800VDC versions, replace IGBT with 1200V 100A (no need for 200A version since your duty cycle will be pretty low), and add 2s4p set of 400V 680uF caps close to the IGBT to replace elcaps on the main power board.

The size of the unit will be larger but it will handle higher voltage. 

The problem, of course, is that the power factor will be quite poor. This is why you are tripping your breakers now, by the way... with poor power factor, the breakers are tripped long before your *average* current reaches their rated current.

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

AmpEater said:


> So I'm trying to get a J1772 system working with my juicebox and EMW 12000 charger. I bought the J1772 connector and sockets all from EMW. There are two smaller gauge pilot wires labled CC and CP. I'm assuming CP is pilot and connects to the brown wire on the EMW charger. Where does CC go? Ground? And does the charger need to be grounded for J1772 to work?
> 
> Thanks for any help! Can't wait to get a single charging setup for all my EVs


CP is the pilot, yes. You can double-check by following procedure in our manual at http://emotorwerks.com/JuiceBox_Pub...ox Kit Assembly Instructions - V8.6 - V21.pdf (page 23, middle). 

CC can be left unconnected (we normally just cut it flush with the jacket)

Charger does not need to be grounded but you will need to connect the J cable ground to the control board ground in your SmartCharge-12000.

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Arber, you are on the bleeding edge! ;-))
> 
> Yes, the PCBs would handle the voltage - they are generally designed with 0.1" separation of HV traces. According to IPC standard for a permanently coated board, this is good up to about 800V. And those standards are quite conservative.
> 
> ...


Sooooo  if i understood about PF: easiest would be now to just change my cable cross-section to say 4mm2 and i would get improved PF? Well not PF but current capacity....
That 2,5mm2 N line is getting pretty warm. 
On the other hand, i dont have fuse on the N line. Just the RST.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Sooooo  if i understood about PF: easiest would be now to just change my cable cross-section to say 4mm2 and i would get improved PF? Well not PF but current capacity....
> That 2,5mm2 N line is getting pretty warm.
> On the other hand, i dont have fuse on the N line. Just the RST.
> 
> A


well, that won't help your PF but the wires will heat up less, yes.

To improve your PF, you would have to add an active power factor correction stage. This is far from trivial for 3-phase in a non-isolated design. We are working on it now as a custom project for a customer but won't have anything ready for general availability for at least a couple of months. 

Valery


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Darn! I got to 100% SOC but I still cant get to CV phase. I set my voltage at 3.62V per cell and i set my float CV constant at 37 (3.7V right?). Now when pack voltage comes to 152V duty drops to 0% and slowly rises back - amps also. It does that repeatedly untill BMS cuts off. 
I dont understand, shouldn there be some CV phase starting at cca 150V and holding at 152V? 
Can you find a reason? I can send you my code if it would help...

Strange...

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Darn! I got to 100% SOC but I still cant get to CV phase. I set my voltage at 3.62V per cell and i set my float CV constant at 37 (3.7V right?). Now when pack voltage comes to 152V duty drops to 0% and slowly rises back - amps also. It does that repeatedly untill BMS cuts off.
> I dont understand, shouldn there be some CV phase starting at cca 150V and holding at 152V?
> Can you find a reason? I can send you my code if it would help...
> 
> ...


The normal sequence is:
1. CC step: current rises to your specified current target and stays there. Voltage slowly rises
2. CC ends: voltage hits CV point. Charger stops CC step, current goes to zero
3. CV step: voltage rises to CV point and stays there. Current initially rises to whatever value that gets the charger to CV point and then starts dropping all the way to 5% of the AH rating (in default version of the firmware) 
4. CV ends: charger stops, with 'charging complete' message and amount of AH displayed.

Valery


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> The normal sequence is:
> 1. CC step: current rises to your specified current target and stays there. Voltage slowly rises
> 2. CC ends: voltage hits CV point. Charger stops CC step, current goes to zero
> 3. CV step: voltage rises to CV point and stays there. Current initially rises to whatever value that gets the charger to CV point and then starts dropping all the way to 5% of the AH rating (in default version of the firmware)
> ...


OK!

1. CC step, CHECK!
2. CC ends, CHECK! No screen change between CC/CV mode change
3. CV step, current rises, voltage rises to a point when current drops to 0 and cycles again.... FAIL!
4. CV ends, there is no stop..... FAIL! BMS has to intervene at some point otherwise it would just cycle step 3. 

const int CVs[4] {37, -10}, what exactly does -10 mean?
I got a feeling Arduino doesnt output EOC signal at the end of CV. Could that be a hardware problem? 

also how to setup this:
const float instantMaxCRatio 1.4; 
I got 70A inductor you sent me at the start of 2013? Can i use this value or would you recommend other? I dont even hear inductor now that i charge at 45A on 3phase.

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> OK!
> 
> 1. CC step, CHECK!
> 2. CC ends, CHECK! No screen change between CC/CV mode change
> ...


k pls send your code to charger at emotorwerks.com


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## KUSAW (Jul 1, 2011)

Happen to me on this charger:

Dobe all of the test step.

On the display : 
Battery charging, but after arround 5 second always says," charge complete"....

Now, re-checking everything again....

Btw, my battery pack is 144v/200ah, 3.2v/cell


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

KUSAW said:


> Happen to me on this charger:
> 
> Dobe all of the test step.
> 
> ...


I guess charger thinks your battery is full.
First, connect battery at least 60VDC, 30V is too small. Then calibrate the charger to the battery. If your V reading after zero point is off more than a couple V then your driver board has a problem.
Check resistor voltage divider on your driver board. I had the same problem, because i used too small resistors for the sense line. R9 and R10! After i put correct values charger started normaly. I use 2x 1M for R9 and R10 resistors and it gets me up to 2V difference from my voltmeter! 

A


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## dscherbarth (Dec 6, 2013)

dscherbarth said:


> looks like pin 1 of u8 is where the smoke came out  yes attempt to measure on the terminals (lost the dvm probe ends and a little of the brass screws) I'll let you know how things look after i replace the pfc controller chip. The schematic i have does not show u8. i can probably intuit from the pcb. thanks


IR1153 chip replaced but applying 12v seems to saturate the 2a 12v supply. Static resistance across 12v in is 2.4 ohms this is only powering the 2 +- 15v supplies Seems high. Valery do you know what this should be? Do you have a price for just the driver board and parts?

Thanks


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dscherbarth said:


> IR1153 chip replaced but applying 12v seems to saturate the 2a 12v supply. Static resistance across 12v in is 2.4 ohms this is only powering the 2 +- 15v supplies Seems high. Valery do you know what this should be? Do you have a price for just the driver board and parts?
> 
> Thanks


most likely IR1153 took the DC/DC supply with it. When DC/DC goes, they usually fail shorted - this may be where your current is going. Easiest way is to check the output voltage of the DC/DC. Take out the driver board and apply 12V to it, while measuring voltage between gate and emitter of the PFC side output. IF all works well, you should see -15V on the gate output relative to the emitter. If DC/DC or A3120 failed, you will see zero


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## dscherbarth (Dec 6, 2013)

valerun said:


> most likely IR1153 took the DC/DC supply with it. When DC/DC goes, they usually fail shorted - this may be where your current is going. Easiest way is to check the output voltage of the DC/DC. Take out the driver board and apply 12V to it, while measuring voltage between gate and emitter of the PFC side output. IF all works well, you should see -15V on the gate output relative to the emitter. If DC/DC or A3120 failed, you will see zero


yep pfc 15v power supply seems shorted. I'll replace and report back thanks


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Timer setting?*

Valery, 

happy to report that I've been using the charger multiple times daily since October. Very satisfied with it!
No more issues - using off-charger J1772 circuit and snap disc thermostat attached to hotter inductor to control the fans - both simple but reliable.

Question:
I am trying to program the timer to 3h time out, but this value lasts only that specific charging cycle. I would like to be able to preset it just like I preset the cell cutoff voltage or capacity or number of cells, so I do not have to do it every single time. Is that possible?

Thanks, George


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Valery

Tested with AC mains connected this evening, 1st time after blown IGBT.

Except this time I connected the bulbs inline with the battery on Arber's advice, (via email correspondence direct wit Arber)

He suggested that I should never have connected the dummy load (2 x 60watt light bulbs in parallel) directly between the output terminals without having a capacitive load in series with them (i.e. my battery), and that this is what most likely blew my IGBT!

Can you confirm if when doing the 1st AC connected test section "b. Limited test of Power + Logic stages" Page 52 of EMW-12000_Non-PFC-V12-Build_Notes, you are supposed to connect JUST the lamps with no battery at all?

After all this is shorting the output which does seem like a no no, and I did fret over it the first time but this is what the instructions seem to suggest, that at this point I should JUST be connecting the dummy load and not through (in series with) batteries?

Thanks

Graham


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

hey valery ... just wanted to signal a few more bugs .... in the non pfc 12k unit you specifically say on the control board to solder the arduino first .... 

2 step ... includes r39 then r42 ... these are under the arduino .... im guessing the need to be welded on the other side of the board ?? shouldn't this be mentioned ?? 

im still waiting on your pictures to clarify the diode bridge problem im having with fitting between the heatsink and power board :s .... 

as always thanks in advance ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Also i would like to ask another q.
> 
> I intend to use "pin_110relay" on pin D11 as input to drop power to 10A as BMS starts to shunt.
> Can i just declare this pin as INPUT and add 10k pulldown resistor to GND? The same way BMS is configured?
> ...


Hi Valery

I actualy tried to set up charger reduction. It failed. Charger didnt reduce power.

I set up the maxOutC2 constant and paired it with maxOutC.

I set up the 110relay D11 port as receiver and fan D8 port as transmitter in a loop exactly as BMS/EOC loop. 
In hardware i removed fan transistor and connected port directly as EOC. 110relay i also connected directly while adding pulldown resistor. Exactly as with BMS pin.

I inserted the code right after the BMS/EOC and thermal management routine.

I set fan port to start high when charger is working, so this would be allways on. Should i rather connect +5V from power pin?

Do you have any other ideas on how to make the code work?

tnx

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

Again i see something i have to share with others. If you know more please tell me.
I run my charger 3 phase. I noticed there is a 2A difference between phases. Ie R shows cca 16A, S cca 14A and T shows 13A or so. 
First i tought that my contactor which is connected to R draws 2A! But NO, someone told me that when looking at capacitors R will always fill them first to fullest. But S and T will fill caps only up to 2/3s. It has to do something with harmonics of the phases. Now when i read some about this i figured if i got the frequency of IGBT right (subtle differences) i could equalise consumption on all phases. 

Well i got a feeling it has to do something with the "instantMaxCRatio". Because when i changed it from 1,4 to 1,6 i dont even hear the inductor now and fuses hold for 2hours at 45A. But before when i had it to 1,3 my fuses went off only after 15min.

Care to comment or any suggestion?

A


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

arber333 said:


> ...I run my charger 3 phase. I noticed there is a 2A difference between phases....


You can't do PFC on a full-wave rectified 3 phase waveform because much of the sine wave information is lost (the DC output never goes to zero, even without capacitor filtering):










So you need a separate full-wave rectifier and PFC block for each phase, and then you can sum their outputs together in a common reservoir capacitor.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> You can't do PFC on a full-wave rectified 3 phase waveform because much of the sine wave information is lost (the DC output never goes to zero, even without capacitor filtering):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well.....yes!

Heh, i circumvented this by using half bridge with N line connected to the negative side of caps. This way charger thinks it is still fueled by single phase, only this time by 150Hz input. 
Well not exactly because phases overlap and i think charger sees cca 120Hz power source. But there are harmonic losses because ovelaping phases, especially with R. Our power is 230VAC 50Hz. Also i use Non PFC charger, i charge up to 152VDC!
This why i would like to fine tune IGBT (and inductor) so i could get proper distributed consumption over RST. I would like to know if someone knows how to fine tune the frequency of IGBT. Like 0,1% difference both ways. 
I dont want to know the precise theory just enough to be able to balance the input .

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Any news about the resistors ? And photos ofthediode bridge on the heatsink ?


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

hello new to this forum, i like alot of topics talked about, i have recently purchased a 12kw pfc kit 100 amp almost done just need help finishing it up, if anyone has any comments, i try to program the arduino and get errors about "my lcd not declared," "timer 1" i never used arduino before i read the instructions but cant get the program to run correctly


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

patrick1 said:


> hello new to this forum, i like alot of topics talked about, i have recently purchased a 12kw pfc kit 100 amp almost done just need help finishing it up, if anyone has any comments, i try to program the arduino and get errors about "my lcd not declared," "timer 1" i never used arduino before i read the instructions but cant get the program to run correctly


Sounds like you might have the wrong firmware version, the very latest firmware has been completely rewritten as 4D systems have changed their API for the LCD panel that EMW used for this charger, think the latest Version 12 is for the new LCD, previous firmware versions 11 and below are for the original LCD panel.

UPDATE, OK scratch my previous comment I have just checked the latest firmware (V12) and it should work for both LCD's 

Also check you have the Timer1 & uLCD_144 libraries in the "libraries" folder inside the "arduino-0022" folder, also I think you have (or had, may have moved on now?) to use version 0022.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Valery

My charger is now working 
I have managed to charge but I am still having problems with getting to 100% SOC.
I am using LIPO with nominal 3.7v Max 4.2v

the firmware says:-

// CV constant (N/A for LA, Ni)
const float CVs[4]={3.5, -1, -1, 4.2}; // charging voltage for CALB 3.6V per cell. Using 3.55 here to ensure reliable detecion of end-of-charge for a bottom-balanced pack
// absolute maximum voltage
const float maxBattVs[4]={3.8, 1.6, 15., 4.5};

Can you advise of what values I should use to reflect the LIPO Nominal and Max voltage differences (differences from LIFEPO if any). Update, Found post from Valery to Arber stating that this code has no effect on sensing! So how would I go about changing the code to allow charging of LIPO to 100% SOC?

R9 & R10 are 1Meg

When I calibrate my full pack (which is currently at 243v) the charger reads 208v when sensing. Update, Found C32 was 0.1uf not 1uf as it should have been fixed this and now I get 230v sensed V
Do I need to change the resistor divider or should I change the firmware? I am so close to fitting this charger into my car now 

Many Thanks in advance


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> R9 is 1Meg and R10 is 1.2Meg
> 
> ...


Hi Graham!

I got the same problem when i first built my charger. I got up to 150VDC and my resistor divider was R9=1M R10=0 i shorted it!!!! I then changed R10 to 1,2M and got cca 20% error in voltage sensing. Then i changed R10 to 1M and i dont have problems anymore. It is accurate up to 2V now!

A


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

arber333 said:


> Hi Graham!
> 
> I got the same problem when i first built my charger. I got up to 150VDC and my resistor divider was R9=1M R10=0 i shorted it!!!! I then changed R10 to 1,2M and got cca 20% error in voltage sensing. Then i changed R10 to 1M and i dont have problems anymore. It is accurate up to 2V now!
> 
> A


Hi Arber

I am battling with my voltage sensing issue right now, R9=1M, R10 was also 1M but I changed it yesterday to 1.2M, this just made things worse!
So I am now checking all the component values around the voltage sensing circuit.
R13 is 27K AFAIK from my photographs and checking the colour code it looks right(I have not removed it to check with DVM but I am sure its right)
I did originally put a 27K instead of a 2.7K for R13 but Valery helped me find this when my voltage sense did not work at all, so R13 is definitely 2.7K
With R9 & R10=1M I was getting a 23v error, charger sensed 220v DVM read 243v so something is definitely out somewhere.
Do you think that because I am using LIPO not LIFEPO with a different nominal and Max Voltage this could be causing the error?
There are values in the software that set the nominal and max V's I think but Valery advised you not to touch these stating that it had no effect on sensing.
Other than lowering the value of R10 to less than 1M I am stumped at the moment.
I am just checking C32 as I was supplied with 1 different cap of the same size but orange instead of blue did not use this so I am currently searching for images of others builds to check this is correct.

Update 1, I think that is it I just checked the build photos and it is orange not blue so I think I have used a 0.1uf instead of a 1uf for C32! Changing it now.

Update 2, Changed C32 for a 1uf and tested, sure enough the voltage sensing is a lot more accurate but still not bang on (during the calibration).

Now when I do the battery calibration sequence I get 230v as the sensed voltage, 243v on the DVM, does anyone know if this first sensed voltage value during the calibration setup should ever be bang on correct or should I expect it to be out by this much, after all it does then ask you to measure and enter the exact value.
Once I have entered the exact value it then senses the voltage almost exactly i.e. the Voltage Out shown on the duty screen matches my DVM readings almost exactly (fractions of a volt out).
However I am still having trouble getting to 100% SOC without lying about the number of cells I have in my traction pack, I am currently saying I have around 4-6 cells more than I actually have, Is this related to the fact I cant set the CV higher than 3.99v?
AFAIK I should be setting the CV to my maximum individual cell voltage, 4.2v for LIPO's so does anyone know if this means I should be setting my CV to 420, is this correct?
I have managed to get it to charge to 243v by setting my cell count to 64 (4 more cells than I actually have) and the CV to 3.94, at 45AH, with these settings it shows MaxV on the Type 1 (CC Stage) duty screen of 252v which would be exactly right for my pack but it never gets to MaxV it goes to 243v and the Duty drops to 0% along with the Amps In to 0.0AH and it just sits there never enters CV Stage (I have not given it ages but a good 20 minutes or so) I also noticed a split second disconnection (by wiggling Anderson connector) is enough to push it into CV stage but it just skips straight to Charging complete and never shows the CV Duty screen.

Sounds very like what you are seeing Arber, what firmware version are you using? I am still on V11, I have had a brief look at V12 and it looks quite different but I think most of the changes are to accommodate the new LCD panel, but Valery states somewhere that it also includes some minor tweaks maybe I should upgrade it anyhow.

Advice from anyone reading this is always appreciated, especially if you have one of these chargers.

Thanks again Arber for all your advice so far, I will definitely be having a go at the pre-charge circuit you suggested, as I understand that the inrush resistors waste around 40watts as heat!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I used up all my tricks... I tried to create a loop which would trigger charger reduction to 5A! Well untill now i hadnt had any luck.

I tried and modified 110_relay port as input and fan port as output. Basicaly BMS/EOC loop. When charger starts i get cca 4,7V between them which is ok as i persume. Fan port is output high, while 110_relay is input active low. I even used 10k pulldown resistor on the pads of old transistor mount (110_relay).

In the code i put this just before BMS/EOC rroutine :

//BMS Derating to 5A 
if(digitalRead(pin_110relay)==LOW) { //condition met, BMS shunting,
maxOutC1=5 // limited to 5A,
}
else{
float maxOutC1=maxOutC; // return maxoutC control to charger 
}

also i added:
digitalWrite(pin_fan, HIGH); 
in the charger routine, so ports are active only when charger starts. I even commented out pin_fan,HIGH in thermal derating routine.

Please is there something i am doing wrong? How would you lower power with one relay(switch)?

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Arber
> 
> I am battling with my voltage sensing issue right now, R9=1M, R10 was also 1M but I changed it yesterday to 1.2M, this just made things worse!
> So I am now checking all the component values around the voltage sensing circuit.
> ...


Shit! I use V12 code now. I still have the early version before LCD changes. It works fine except for the CC/CV transition.

I am not sure anymore if it is something in the code. Now i belive it must be something in circuit. You are British are you not? So you use 230VAC 50Hz same as we do no? At this point i am starting to believe different power could have different effect on charger. So i took some measurements. I checked voltages on cap bridge, on IGBT and on power supply and control board. I came up with a strange reading. When i check voltage between igbt + and casing i get some 30VAC! Also on control board power. I mean instrument sees 0VDC, but on AC setting 30VAC are there.

Could you measure your charger? Check voltage on your metal casing(or heatsink) and IGBT contacts and also control board power lines. 

I get the feeling my PSU is letting out some AC on the 12V lines. I will try to replace it this week.

There is another thought. For lowering the power when charging single phase i use a 230VAC relay. Could it be, that this relay is interfeering with my voltage sense lines? I will also take it out and try my CC/CV transition.

A


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

arber333 said:


> Shit! I use V12 code now. I still have the early version before LCD changes. It works fine except for the CC/CV transition.
> 
> I am not sure anymore if it is something in the code. Now i belive it must be something in circuit. You are British are you not? So you use 230VAC 50Hz same as we do no? At this point i am starting to believe different power could have different effect on charger. So i took some measurements. I checked voltages on cap bridge, on IGBT and on power supply and control board. I came up with a strange reading. When i check voltage between igbt + and casing i get some 30VAC! Also on control board power. I mean instrument sees 0VDC, but on AC setting 30VAC are there.
> 
> ...


Hi Arber

Yes I am in UK same power as you I think 240Vac although I am single phase only (you can get 3 phase in UK but not usual for domestic supply)

It is funny you note the AC on casing because I thought that was just me but as far as I can tell the heatsink seems to be the live part I have not tested actual voltage yet (will do today) but I noticed this the first time I ran charger in its case.

As soon as I powered up all seemed normal went to configure and as soon as I touched the case I got a shock of it, powered off immediately and as I knew that the only part my charger that touches the box is the heatsink I just removed the 4 machine screws holding the charger to the case and tried again, problem solved no shocks this time.

I thought it was either induced from the Inductor or leakage from the IGBT, Output diode or bridge rectifier but I really don't know for sure, It is a pain (literally!) because I was just thinking of using plastic/nylon screws to solve the problem but now you are making me think that it is wrong and needs fixing, this is not an isolated charger so I assumed that this was normal and that I just needed to insulate the heatsink from the case.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Heads up to anyone buying the emw charger ... When i was ordering i asked if i should buy the non pfc or pfc version for my application ... 150 volts system with 47 100 ah lithiums ... I was told non pfc would be very sufficient for my needs ...

My only regrets !! I should have bought the pfc version !!! All the build notes / schematics and pictures are for the pfc version as well as all the videos ... The instructions on the non pfc are outdated and for older versions with many changes as well as much less precise than the pfc versions ... 

Ive been waiting for over 3 weeks for a solution to a clearance issue from the changed diode bridge not mentioned anywhere  ... 

I know have my power board and doubler board complete ... Waiting on incomplete information to finish the rest

I think the charger is amazing ... Great quality parts ect ... But save yourself the trouble of incomplete information ... Buy the pfc version !!! 

I built power board and doubler board in one night ... But the control board has incomplete info in the non pfc version and for the driver board version 13 which i received there are simply no instructions for this board ... Waiting nearly a month  ... 

If someone has pictures of the new white diode bridge which is much higher than the previous and how it was fitted please do share ??


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

This is the diode bridge i received ....

Also under the Arduino on the control board there are 2 resistors situated under the Arduino ... Im guessing we solder these on the other side of the pcb board ?


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

crackerjackz said:


> View attachment 17647
> 
> View attachment 17648
> 
> ...


Hi Crackerjackz

I have the same non-pfc kit as you with the same white output diode, I have a version 10 control board however.
I am not sure what you mean by a clearance issue but my output diode is just mounted on my heatsink closely to the output corner of the power board, you can see photos on my blog in my signature.
Keep the link wire between the +ve power output to the output diodes input as short as you can, mine is around 5cm.

The white output diode package is just 2 diodes with the output side connected inside the package the inputs are not connected so you will need to join them in parallel and just use the single remaining output as your +ve battery terminal, basically pin 1 is your output battery terminal, pins 2 and 3 should be joined with large gauge wire and they are connected to your output of the power board.

As for the resistors under the arduino, I haver mine slotted into inline sockets supplied (did you not get these?) that way you can remove the arduino board if required and it gives clearance for the resistors (I have had to remove mine several times) if I were you I would de-solder the arduino mount the resistors and put some inline sockets to slot the arduino to raise the arduino of the PCB by about 1cm.

I am far from an expert but I have just got mine working after 7 months, using some (most!) of my spare time tinkering with it, it was a hard slog but worth it in the end.

I am also living proof that a total novice can build this kit and get it working!

However as you and the rest of us have discovered it is not plain sailing the build notes are lagging and I blew my IGBT/Driver/isolator the first time I plugged it into mains, I am not sure exactly why as yet but I have been advised that the lamps should only be connected with a capacitive in series with them otherwise you are essentially shorting the output, bad idea, I did this and blew the IGBT immediately.

So be careful when you get to testing make sure you complete all the low voltage tests before moving on, and don't ever short the outputs otherwise you are looking at an expensive repair.

keep posting with your progress & good luck.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Guys i ve solved it!!!

I got the BMS reduction loop correct and now it works. 
To whom it may concern, this is the code:
EDIT: I use code V12 from 31th of July 2013, the first version!

I declared input pin as
pinMode(pin_110relay, INPUT);

and left output pin as
pinMode(pin_fan, OUTPUT);

Then i added command to switch the output on when the charger starts. Basicaly i just added one line to EOC start line:
digitalWrite(pin_EOC, HIGH);
digitalWrite(pin_fan, HIGH); 

The conditional:
//BMS derating to 5A
if(digital read(pin_110relay)==LOW) { //condition met, BMS shunting
maxOutC1=maxOutC/8; //reducing to 1/8 is 5A for me
}
else {
maxOutC1=maxOutC; //return control to charger
}

I had to search if any of the ports is actually used in the code. I then commented fan port use in temp derating loop. I dont use 12V fans and even if i did i wouldnt switch them off during charging.

I had to also change hardware some. I removed both transistors from fan and 110relay lines as well as limiting resistors. I then joined line from D8 to the fan port on control board.

http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/20131221_002.jpg
EDIT: this picture was taken before the J1772 mod. Since then i changed diode and resistor as shown in the new build manual.

For the 110relay line i also joined line all the way from D11 to the output pin, but i had to add 10K pulldown resistor to keep high impedance port at 0V. I did it this way: i soldered one leg of resistor to D11 transistor center pad and the other to the leftmost(gnd) pad. I further connected middle pad to right one directly and in effect i got a straight line from D11 to 110relay output with resistor junction in the middle pulling residual voltage down to GND.

Since i run 40A charge 1/8 is my divider. You can set up yours as you wish.
I must say direct command maxOutC1=5 doesnt work. So i guess charger has to calculate its values...

That leaves only CV transition!!! I belive i will solve this also soon.

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Crackerjackz
> 
> 
> As for the resistors under the arduino, I haver mine slotted into inline sockets supplied (did you not get these?) that way you can remove the arduino board if required and it gives clearance for the resistors (I have had to remove mine several times) if I were you I would de-solder the arduino mount the resistors and put some inline sockets to slot the arduino to raise the arduino of the PCB by about 1cm.


thank you so much although not pleased by "MY MISTAKE " .... which in my mind is not my mistake but bad instructions as I quote the exact instructions provided .... 

​ 1. Solder the male pins to the Arduino board. You might receive a version of the board with all pins already placed – in that case skip this step (do make sure that all the pads on the Arduino board have pins soldered to – those A4/5 pins on the inside can be easy to miss!) 
1. make sure you place the pins from the component side so that Arduino board components end up facing the control board when Arduino board gets inserted into the control board 
 Electric Motor Werks, Inc. High Performance Electric Vehicle Conversions http://www.eMotorWerks.com 
[email protected] 228 Hamilton Ave, 3rd Floor http://www.eMotorWerks.com USA 35 
 　
 2. do not forget A4 A5 p 

looks like ill have no choice to desolder the arduino which very much does not make me happy and solder the second set of female pins like should have been done the first time .... 

thank you sexstrap .... these " instructions " honestly irritate me .... and yet when I go to the pfc version to validate some things its usually more clear .... except for this step which in my mind should be clearly stated that a female set of pins are to be soldered to the board so that the arduino with male pins may be installed and removed as needed ........


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ok so im starting to fix my arduino problem but i need to know with what to fix it lol ... I have two different sets of female pin connectors , long legged 6 pin and short leg 4 or 12 pin .... Which ones am i to solder to the pcb to be able to then put or remove my arduino at will ? Its presently soldered directly with the male pins and yes it is a bitch to desolder lol ...


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

crackerjackz said:


> Ok so im starting to fix my arduino problem but i need to know with what to fix it lol ... I have two different sets of female pin connectors , long legged 6 pin and short leg 4 or 12 pin .... Which ones am i to solder to the pcb to be able to then put or remove my arduino at will ? Its presently soldered directly with the male pins and yes it is a bitch to desolder lol ...
> View attachment 17679


Hi again Crackerjackz

Yes I wondered this also but I don't think it really matters, I just tried to use the right number of pins where required without having to make any sockets up from more than 1 socket strip (if you see what I mean) the length of the pins may have some relevance but it was beyond me and does not seem to make any difference to the end product, just fit them flush with the board and trim the excess metal.

I found it useful to read all the instructions for all the boards before starting and placing all the sockets and other components first to see how it was going to look, however I did end up fitting socket strips for the LCD and later deciding to solder the LCD in permanently so there is always going to be a little toing and froing in a project as complex as this one.

do you have any de-soldering wick or are you just using a solder pump?

I ended up getting some wick as well as it really helps for the fiddly areas and prevents you damaging the PCB tracks when de-soldering, its cheap too.

And slightly off topic but do you have a build blog for your EV? if so add it o your signature like I (and others) have, you would not believe how useful it is to write up what you are doing, I found that the action of writing up what you have done quite often allows the penny to drop and you see you obvious mistakes before (or usually just after) you make them (and trust me you want to be spotting those mistakes now not when you start powering it all up!).

A build blog is invaluable for an EV as it allows you to keep track of what you have done and others to take an interest and comment on you build as it progresses.
This site also has a garage section where you can post an image of your EV and details this is also very useful I would advise using it.

and most important for you right now would be to study the build photos (any you can find) on this thread and other peoples blogs linked from this thread (you have read this whole thread begging to end have you not?) as this will also highlight any daft mistakes you have made or are about to make. (I even ended up using a Google "image" search with terms like "Non-Pfc" "EMW" "10KW" "Charger" to find others relevant images that might help.)

But bear in mind that others may have made mistakes also as the time of their assemblies (I did) but you can always edit your posts on this thread if you make some comments that you later want to retract or correct

I found that the board build was the easiest part and when it came to mounting it all on the heatsink and wiring it all up the instructions get even worse, I think it is expected that you can read a schematic and relate it to the PCB files (I can do this but it is not easy for me and takes a lot of time).

I would also advise reading this build thread from beginning to end, don't worry that most of it will be gobbledegook to start with because as you get to a part where you are stuck you will remember reading something that relates to your problem and re-reading the post a second (or third time) will then help.

Also check page 112 of this thread for my build photos (be sure to read the red updates!) as these are my (Control board incomplete, Valery's replies to my post will help here) build photos and may prove helpful, AFAIK the driver and power boards are fine in these photos, and if you have not done so already, download Express PCB install and study the PCB files for the "Exact" version of the board you are using, if they are there, if not use the closest version number to the one you have, you can double click the individual components to get the exact values and make sure you have them correct according to the PCB files (this is not always true however for example the V12 build notes state 1Meg for R10 on the driver board, the V12 Driver board states 1.2Meg for R10! (not a major problem but still an inconsistency)

Oh yeah and Happy New Year to all fellow EVers!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Folks!

I whish you all a happy new year 2014. Many joys with your projects....

Valery i have a question for you. Please answer if you think it is dangerous.
Now that my charger responds and lowers amps when i tell it, could the same be possible for CV phase?

I could go and put this code in my if conditional:
runChargeStep(2, maxOutV, 2, configuration.AH*min_CV_Crating); 

Do you think charger will respond?

At the time my BMS starts to balance, my pack has 151V already (95% full) And my CV limit is 152V so i dont think there would be a problem if i commanded CV there. 

So do you think i should try?

A


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hi Valery

Happy new year for 2014, I hope you had a good one.

Firstly can you confirm that this charger is potentially capable of charging LIPO batteries correctly? (Update:- Valery has confirmed via email that yes it can)
I thought I had got my charger working over xmas and although it goes through the motions it is not putting the required charge into my pack so it is back to testing and fault finding (Broke down this morning 400yards from my door!). Update my break down may well have been my fault and not a lack of charge in my pack! got home this eve checked pack voltage it was fine! 
I have been charging at 16A in/out, setting 66 cells (I have actually got 60) to get it to push the voltage up to my required 252v, CV of ~394 (I have been adjusting this to get it to even start charging) @45AH, However it appears to bring the voltage up rather quicker than I would expect.
Update:- Valery has confirmed that I was using the correct settings here around 64 cells (I had tried 64-66) and that yes for LIPO's I should be setting 4.2v CV cut off or 420 CV on the menu
To quote Valery "CC-CV charging profile programmed into charger will handle any Lithium chemistry provided CV point is programmed correctly. From what I know, CV for LiPo needs to be set to ~4.2V per cell. The current version of the firmware for charger does not allow >3.99 (will be changed in the next version) so you are correct in trying to adjust using higher cell count."
My pack used to take around 3 1/2 hours at 16A using two Zivan dumb chargers so I know that at 16A it should take around this time, in fact it brings the voltage up to the required ~250v and then (whilst still in CC mode) the duty drops off to zero very quickly down to zero and it just sits there, all this happens in less than an hour! (Update my charger may be pushing twice the current I am expecting and just charging way faster than I am used to, I am borrowing a DC current clamp this weekend to confirm/test current drawn/output)
I still have issues with the fact I am using LIPO and would like some advice as to what I need to change (hardware/software) to inform the charger that I am using LIPO not LIFEPO and that the nominal and Max voltages are higher. (new firmware should deal with this issue, thanks Valery)
I am not sure if this is related to the lack of total charge or not.
The charger never enters CV mode unless I wiggle the anderson connector at which point it switches to CV mode and still sits at zero duty.(Still not sure if CV is working the duty drops off as if it has entered CV stage but I never see the stage 2 Screen unless I force it by v short interrupt i.e. wiggling) 
basically it is not working properly.*(Update WRONG it may be working way better than I was expecting!)*
I would like to add another battery type for LIPO in software, how would I go about doing this and what changes I would need to make to the LIPO voltage configuration in the firmware?(update None new firmware coming soon)
Can you suggest where I go from here in terms of testing? (I have just borrowed a current clamp meter from work to do some AC side checks, will post details on forum)
Do you know of anyone who is successfully charging LIPO batteries (Not LIFEPO) with your charger? (have you ever tried?) Update again to quote Valery"We have charged small-ish LIPO packs on this charger with no problem." 
Update:- I have just been advised by a good freind who knows his LIPOS that "LifePo4 also has a very different charge curve, so the code may well require some work! Lipo changes voltage gradually according to SoC, LifePo4 just sits at more or less nominal voltage until it reaches 85% Soc.." 
don't get the wrong Idea I am not interested in returning it or anything, just want to implement LIPO as an extra on this cool charger and I am just enquiring as to whether I am about to reinvent the wheel ;-) Update:- Valery has beaten me to it new firmware should support CV's up to 4.2v (420 on menu CV setting)


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so looks like all have to start doing a build log :s lol .... but for the moment I fixed my arduino problem .. desoldered and resoldered with male and female pins  . made sure no short circuits occurred between pins because of it ... 

I was putting the resistors in when I saw the instructions asking for a 6.8k ohm resistor in position r38 which was not listed on pcb . found it in pcb express it happens to be just under the writing of the card written universal control board v12 ... its just under the word control ... I looked at other peoples builds and don't see anything there .... looked at schematics and it is there and definetly suppose to be a 6.8 k ???? I don't have any 6.8 k even tested with my ohm meter to be sure ???? 

is this resistor not needed or wrong number ?
Version:0.9 StartHtml: 105 EndHtml: 1170 StartFragment: 334 EndFragment: 1138 4. 6.8k resistor: R38 5. 3.3k resistor: R37 6. [OPTIONAL for UVLO shutdown not needed in PFC] a. Place 6.8k resistor: R38 b. Place 3.3k resistor: R37 

I don't have a pfc I have NON pfc .... what is the uvlo shutdown ?? under voltage L? 0 ? ????? and im guessing if I don't need the 6.8k I also don't need the 3.3k ??


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

crackerjackz said:


> ok so looks like all have to start doing a build log :s lol .... but for the moment I fixed my arduino problem .. desoldered and resoldered with male and female pins  . made sure no short circuits occurred between pins because of it ...
> 
> I was putting the resistors in when I saw the instructions asking for a 6.8k ohm resistor in position r38 which was not listed on pcb . found it in pcb express it happens to be just under the writing of the card written universal control board v12 ... its just under the word control ... I looked at other peoples builds and don't see anything there .... looked at schematics and it is there and definetly suppose to be a 6.8 k ???? I don't have any 6.8 k even tested with my ohm meter to be sure ????
> 
> ...


Hi Crackerjackz

R38 not needed for Non PFC AFAIK, I dont have it fitted on mine and it works fine, not sure what it is supposed to do I cant even find it on the schematics! (But that is probably my poor schematic reading skills!)

I basicaly ignored anything that said it was optional on the BOM, after all you can always add them later if you find that you need the optional extra feature they provide.

Good luck.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Hi Crackerjackz
> 
> R38 not needed for Non PFC AFAIK, I dont have it fitted on mine and it works fine, not sure what it is supposed to do I cant even find it on the schematics! (But that is probably my poor schematic reading skills!)
> 
> ...


ctrl + f in the schematics diagrams using express sch will find you automatically the componenet you are looking for just like in pcb express  ... r38 and r37 are 12 volt regulated in series and go to uvlo ... ?? so im going without them as I don't even know what the uvlo option is ?? ... 

this leads me to more weird or missing parts :s ... 

r44 - in instructions is suppose to be 220r ... in schematics 330r ... in sextraps picture of his control board page 112 ... I cant tell one hundred percent but I believe I see it with a color code ... red red brown gold which in fact would be 220 and 5% precision ... i ended up putting a 220 ohm and im hoping it will be ok ? 

c40 - 50-100 uf cap i don't have one in the kit i received ... but in schematics it looks to me like a regulator .... its on the negative side of the power supply to the u9 lm11 chip (pin 3 of u9) ...?? should i go out and buy one ? 

c41 - 100- 470 uf 16+ volts .... i don't have one .... same problem ... its on the +5v of the arduino and out to the 100k off board thermistor ... ??? should i go out and buy one ??

c42 - 100 uf or higher 25 volt + ... I don't have one . in shematics it says 300 uf ... its in parelle with the 12 volt regulated lines so im guessing its just to regulate the power/ filter ... ?? should i go out and buy one ?? 

all the caps i have are 47 uf 35 volts x 6 / 10 uf 50 volts x1 left 2 used on control board / and 2 x 1000 uf 25 volts ... and in sextraps pics i see he has bigger than my 47 uf caps ... ?? any help appreciated ...

wanted to add ... why was the c43/c45/c46/c47/c48 pierced as if to indicate the negative side of the caps ... ?? these are non polarized caps from what ive looks up only to be 100% sure ... from valerys build photos it looks like the holes were filled with solder ? should i and why were these pierced with a drill when i got the board out of the box ?? pcb issues ?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> ctrl + f in the schematics diagrams using express sch will find you automatically the componenet you are looking for just like in pcb express  ... r38 and r37 are 12 volt regulated in series and go to uvlo ... ?? so im going without them as I don't even know what the uvlo option is ?? ...
> 
> this leads me to more weird or missing parts :s ...
> 
> ...


Sorry guys I went amiss a bit - something about subscription mode to this thread that I need to sort out....

Anyway, the drill-out had to be done because of my stupid mistake when copy-pasting components from another board that had only one ground plane. On the component in question (a 0.1uF cap), one of the pads was connected to a top layer and this was invisible on the board I was copying from (since it had only bottom layer ground plane). I failed to notice and found out the mistake only after receiving 40 boards ;-0. Hence the drill-out ;-)

Now to some of the questions:
* UVLO is not needed - optional. Sorry for the remnants in the manual
* use 1000uF for C41, 42
* use 47uF for C40
* r44 can be anything between 100 and 330. Limits match current range of the 3120 optocoupler

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

BTW some of the time last few days was spent on this: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13349&p=347456#p347456


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## Farfle (Jan 16, 2011)

Feel free to tell me if this is the wrong place to be, but I have run into a problem with assembling our Non-PFC kit we h ave purchased. 

We have a V13 driver board, but I can't find instructions for Non-PFC assembly. I have assembled what matches between the V12 Non-PFC and the instructions for the PFC V13 board, but there are still a few loose ends.... Any help would be awesome.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I thought I would post this in case someone has a similar issue in the future, plus it is instructive on part of the operation of the charger.

The output IGBT in my charger failed, and I replaced it and the 3120 driver chip which I found was no longer isolated. The output current sensor used to give accurate readings, but after this mishap its current readings were about a factor of 2.7 too low as shown in the table below:

*Set point……..Sensor Output……..Output Current, display……..Output Current, actual……..Actual/display*
15A………………….3.10V……………………………..14.5A…………………………………............40A………………………………2.75
20A………………….3.30V……………………………..19.1A…………………………………............52A………………………………2.72
25A………………….3.49V……………………………..24.1A…………………………………............66A………………………………2.74

Readings are approximate averages since the values are oscillating a bit. The actual output current values are from the shunt and TBS gauge, and are correct based on readings with my other charger and power input measured with the EKM meter on the charger input, as well as the fact that the EMW charger’s displayed output current used to agree with it very well. The output of the current sensor goes directly to pin A0 of the Arduino (defined as pin_C in firmware) through a 1k series resistor. Not much to go wrong. I’m running the same firmware with no changes.

The value of output current on the display appears to be given by *return (sampleRead(pin_C)-V_o_C)/k_V_C* in this section of the code:

_// read output charger current_
_float readC() {_
_ // read current pin_
_#ifdef PFCdirect_
_ // in the V02 PFCdirect units, current is measured using TAMURA sensors and runs into negative _
_ // to make 3.3V logic compatible_
_ return (V_o_C-sampleRead(pin_C))/k_V_C; // runs into negative_
_#else_
_ *return (sampleRead(pin_C)-V_o_C)/k_V_C;*_
_#endif_


Pin_C is defined as pin A0 on the Arduino, the current sensor output. I assumed this equation is: 

voltage on pin_C minus the quiescent sensor output divided by the sensor sensitivity, i.e. (V on pin_C – 0.6) /0.04 using the data sheet values for sensor quiescent output voltage and sensitivity.

Solving the above equation for some quiescent output voltage, X, rather than using the 0.6 value gives:

X = sensor output – display current*sensor sensitivity = 2.52, 2.54, and 2.53 for the above three conditions. 

It seems the value of V_o_C being used is about 2.53. Since the actual output current is about 2.74 times the display current, the equation can be written as:

X = sensor output – (actual current/2.74)*sensor sensitivity = sensor output – actual current*0.0146

Rearranging this to the above equation for output current (now actual current not display current):

actual output current = (pin_C – 2.53)/0.0146 = 39A, 53A, 66A for the above three conditions.

The quiescent voltage, or offset, is first set to the data sheet value in the firmware:

_ *case Allegro_100U: *_
* return 0.6; // direct from datasheet*

But then is adjusted during the charger calibration routine:

_*// output current calibration*_
* configuration.Ccal=outC*k_V_C;*

So apparently the firmware is recording and using the new offset of 2.53V. I then confirmed this by interrupting the charger during start up and measuring the sensor quiescent output: 2.526V. It does not calibrate sensitivity, rather it uses the data sheet sensitivity of 40mV/A:

_ *case Allegro_100U:*_
* return 0.04; // direct from datasheet*

That is why it is reporting the above output current values on the display. It apparently is using this equation:

(V on pin_C – 2.53) /0.04 = 14.3A, 19.3A, 24.0A for the above three conditions

At first glance the sensitivity seems ok since increasing the current set point by 5A results in an increase in sensor output of 0.2V, or 40mV/A sensitivity. However, the actual current increases much more than this, so the actual sensitivity is much lower, about 0.0146V/A. It appears that the shorting of the IGBT resulted in damage to the current sensor. I then tested this by changing the sensor sensitivity in the firmware from 0.04 to 0.0146. The actual output current as measured with the shunt and TBS gauge now agrees with the output current on the charger display.

Although the charger works fine now, I ordered a new current sensor since I am concerned this one may drift, shift, or quit altogether in the future.
Update 1/11/14: replaced the sensor and went through the calibration routine to calibrate the offset. Displayed current is now accurate, so it was a bad sensor.


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## Farfle (Jan 16, 2011)

Farfle said:


> Feel free to tell me if this is the wrong place to be, but I have run into a problem with assembling our Non-PFC kit we h ave purchased.
> 
> We have a V13 driver board, but I can't find instructions for Non-PFC assembly. I have assembled what matches between the V12 Non-PFC and the instructions for the PFC V13 board, but there are still a few loose ends.... Any help would be awesome.


Got an email reply from Valery, hopefully this helps someone else fix their problem:

the following is not populated:
R5, R6-PFC (populate R6-nonPFC instead),7,8,11,12,14,15,16,17,20
C32,33,34,35,36,37
U8
and the board is inserted with components facing the power board (instead of facing outside for the PFC version)


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Guys

whoever is building their charger AND is living in Europe or any other country that uses 3phase domestic power - check this out!

I got an idea that i will follow with my charger.

Now i charge 3phase, true, but only half bridge. Which leaves me with cca 5kW of power on 16A fuses only. I could use 20A fuses, but not on public stations. Also my charger has N line connected directly to capacitor - line. Not a good proposition. If i try to charge single phase i only get to 16A when my fuse starts to chatter .

To remedy half bridge wiring i propose this:

1. Wire 3 phase bridge with R,S,T connection and + and - output to caps.
2. I will prepare 3phase transformer delta - delta, 3x 400VAC 10A input - 3x 230VAC 25A (per phase) output. This is phase voltage mind you. 
3. I will wire my connector so that at home charger will have RST transformer output wired to 3 phase full bridge for 380VDC rectified. Also 12V PSU will be wired between R and S and so receive 230VAC as before.
4. However when on public charging station i will connect only bridge R and S input to Phase and Neutral in effect creating single phase full bridge using only 4 diodes of the 6. 

Also hidden benefit is that at least at home charger is isolated .
Downside is 50kg transformer is needed for 10kW charge.

Control element will have to be told to reduce current when on public power, but now we know how, this is not a problem. Also SAE J1772/IEC 62196 support could reduce charge as appropriate. 


Of course this has to be tested, but theory is sound

will update further...

A


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello Valery/All

Both I and Arber have reported getting some voltage (AC I think) on the heat-sink. (I did try to measure it whilst charging, between the AC earth and the heat-sink but got inconsistent floating readings) so cant be sure what is causing this (or weather I am measuring it correctly).

1) is this normal i.e. expected? (I understand that this is normal in some chargers)

2) would it be OK to isolate the AC Bridge Rectifier/IGBT/Output Diode using say some mica sheet as with Mosfets to eliminate this problem.

I have seen (online/eBay) some mica sheet for screening microwaves that could be cut down but not sure if they would be good enough for thermal transfer, I have never seen large mica transistor/IBGT specific mica sheets.

I ask as if I bolt the heat-sink to the case with metal screws I get a nice AC tingle from the case (not good)

and as I want to fit this inside the car I don't want the chassis having any voltage on it of any sort.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm preparing to control the fan power with a relay controlled by the "fan" function on the control board. The fan duty appears to be limited to 60% due to possible use of a 15.5V supply:

_const int MAXFANDUTY=160; // with 15.5V supply, do not send more than 10V to the fan = 60-65% duty_

My supply is 12.5V, so any issue with changing 160 above to 183? Also, why limit to 10V, I've been running them straight from the 12.5V supply.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sexstrap said:


> Hello Valery/All
> 
> Both I and Arber have reported getting some voltage (AC I think) on the heat-sink. (I did try to measure it whilst charging, between the AC earth and the heat-sink but got inconsistent floating readings) so cant be sure what is causing this (or weather I am measuring it correctly).
> 
> ...


Hi Graham

Actually i asked around and i found a guy who built V7 charger here in Slovenia. He uses plastic casing so he didnt get any EMI from the charger. When he measured voltage on + line of IGBT and his heatsink he found some 20VAC present. 
Me i get some 30VAC but i use 3phase supply with common N line connected to - caps. I think this is enough to channel most of the shocks... If i touch battery terminals now i dont get zapped vs before when i used single phase bridge. 
Also i ground car chassis during charge. Not the charger casing though, this would cause tons of EMI in my BMS.....

A


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Update on the output current problem (post #1730): I replaced the sensor and went through the calibration routine to calibrate the offset. Displayed current is now accurate, so it was a bad sensor.


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

OK, so I'm moving along at a glacial rate on my build but I have hit another snag. The final assembly tells me to connect the fans to +12 and gnd on the control board on a three pin header. I have read, re-downloaded, and re-read the manual and don't find anything about three pin headers on the control board. There appears to be three 3-pin headers in the upper left corner of the board drawing but nothing about populating them and the photo shows a different board with only one header there. Are those the headers to be used for the fans?

respectfuly,
John


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

John N said:


> OK, so I'm moving along at a glacial rate on my build but I have hit another snag. The final assembly tells me to connect the fans to +12 and gnd on the control board on a three pin header. I have read, re-downloaded, and re-read the manual and don't find anything about three pin headers on the control board. There appears to be three 3-pin headers in the upper left corner of the board drawing but nothing about populating them and the photo shows a different board with only one header there. Are those the headers to be used for the fans?
> 
> respectfuly,
> John


You don't say what you are building, pfc or non-pfc, nor which version board you have, but page 37 of the pfc build notes shows three 3 pin connectors on the upper left of the V12 control board right next to each other, all connected to +12V, G, and +5V. Some of the photos of populated boards are older versions. On page 42: 
_3. Prepare fan connection
a. Solder together fan leads in parallel (positive to positive, negative to negative)
b. Solder a 2-pin female header to the resulting 2 wires (use 3 pin header with the middle position left vacant)
c. This header will mate to the 3-pin power connector on the control board (using +12 and GND pins only) and will feed the fans with 12V whenever the AC power is applied to the charger_


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Sorry, yes I'm building the PFC version. I have the V13 driver board and I believe the control board is V12. I saw the three 3 pin connector spots up in the corner but even they don't match with "use a 3 pin header with the middle pin left vacant". I know I'm picking nits here but with the amount of power we are playing with I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
respectfully,
John


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> Sorry, yes I'm building the PFC version. I have the V13 driver board and I believe the control board is V12. I saw the three 3 pin connector spots up in the corner but even they don't match with "use a 3 pin header with the middle pin left vacant". I know I'm picking nits here but with the amount of power we are playing with I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
> respectfully,
> John


Hi John - you can hardwire the fans onto +12/Gnd or build a small 3-pin connector for them. In the latter case, best thing is to populate one of those 3 3-pad connector spaces you mentioned and use that. This is what they are for - expansions. I have logged this in our manual changelog - will add a couple of bullets in the next version. Thanks!

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

general update - 

as some of you might know, we are hard at work to upgrade our charger to be compatible with Nissan Leaf Quick-Charge protocol. 

Part of that work involved a complete rewrite of the charger code to get the timing / stability performance up to the standards of quick-charge protocol.

I have just posted the latest version of the resulting code to our usual repository on our site. Some release details at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13349&p=348695#p348412 (read some of that thread to get an idea of the 'big picture' if you like).

Note that this release is PURELY EXPERIMENTAL and may blow up your charger. It is now working stably on our couple of test units (same hardware as V12 kits / units shipping now) but YMMV. 

Also, this does not yet include the QuickCharge protocol implementation but that's coming soon, as well. Read same thread above for details if interested. 

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Arber, you are on the bleeding edge! ;-))
> 
> Yes, the PCBs would handle the voltage - they are generally designed with 0.1" separation of HV traces. According to IPC standard for a permanently coated board, this is good up to about 800V. And those standards are quite conservative.
> 
> ...


Valery

Transformer cores are quite expensive !

Since you are using PFC stage BEFORE main IGBT to reduce ripple, shouldnt i use some first stage chopper thing for my charger.

1. I would use 3phase 100A bridge 
2. Afterwards i would put 2x 4700uF 400V caps across DC.
3. Do you think i should use another buck stage to switch the voltage down to 300VDC 30A before the main charger? A crude 6kHz buck controlled by NE555 would be ok, since it would reside in my garage with cables as short as practical.

OR!

4. Would i use beefed up EMW charger (1200V IGBT and series output caps) 

What would be more efficient, you think?

tnx

A


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I performed the "hack" of the J1772 described in the V12 build notes and the charger now works with my Open EVSE. 

I then set the input current to 40A and output to 80A (120V pack) to test if the communications for max power worked. I am only getting about 23-25A instead of the 32A it should supply if there is no other load. I got about 23A ave on one session, 25A on another. 

The equation used in the EMW firmware for max power is: 
_absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - *every 100uS = 6A input*_

I think it should be 6.4 not 6, for 32A available at 50% duty cycle (500 microsec), but that is a small effect. I’m thinking maybe the problem is in estimation of mainsV, set equal read_mV here:

_float pwr;_
_ int J1772_dur;_
_ mainsV=read_mV();_

From the bold text below it appears that read_mV is the rms mains voltage as estimated by the PC817 chip on a V13 driver board (pin_mV is pin 5 of the Arduino, _mV out_ from the PC817):

_// read mains voltage. this function will take ~15mS to complete!_
*float read_mV()*_ {_
_ // find peak voltage_
_ float peakV=0, peakV_new=0;_

_ // need to sample at least 10ms - half-period of 50Hz input_
_ // analogRead takes 0.1uS itself_
_ // to be sure we cover 10mS, add a delay of 70uS to each loop_
_ for(int i=0; i<100; i++) {_
*#ifdef PC817 *
* peakV_new=5-analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.;*_ // with PC817 sensing, opto inverts the wave_
_ // R4 on the driver board is selected so that the 5V means ~the same input voltage as 5V in ISO124 sensing_
_#else _
_ peakV_new=analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // 10-bit ADC_
_#endif_
_ if(peakV_new>peakV) peakV=peakV_new;_
_ delayMicroseconds(70);_
_ }_
* return (peakV-V_o_mV)*divider_k_mV/1.414*1.2; // RMS + adjustment for RC filter on the control board*

My mains voltage value on the display is low. For example on one occasion the displayed input voltage read 203V when the mains voltage was 243V as measured by the EKM meter. Using this in the above equation for max power I get 203*30 = 6090W. The mains voltage decreases when charging starts, e.g. from 243V down to 235V. Assuming the displayed value decreases a similar amount, this would give a max power of 196*30 = 5880W. The EKM measured input power was 5760W to 5960W, or about 5860W. 

In addition to this the displayed value for input voltage is not repeatable, it varies somewhat from one charge session to another for a given actual mains voltage. On another occasion the displayed value on startup was 198V and the EKM value of mains voltage was 246V. Ambient temperature varies widely over the course 24 hours in my unheated metal garage, from around 25 F early morning to 65F in the afternoon these days, so maybe the displayed Vin variability is due to PC817 measurement temperature sensitivity. The above 203V measurement was at 26 F ambient. I think the 198V measurement was in the afternoon, so would have been at significantly warmer ambient. 

I'm thinking adding a factor of about 1.2 to the max power equation. Don't think I can do anything to address the variability. First I will check it with another EVSE, and/or see if I can access to measure the duty cycle of the square wave with a scope to confirm it is 500 microsec. Fairly confident it is. Will be interesting to see how much the displayed input voltage is off in summer temps.

This isn't a big deal, but would be nice to have it limit power close to the max value so I don't have to reset power when I use an EVSE. Anyone else see this using the V13 driver board?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I should have mentioned, on the bright side I charged at about 44A DC with the EVSE this morning and the EMW switched from CC to CV, tapered current down to 0.05C with pack voltage at 126V (3.5*36 cells) then posted "Charging complete" on the display, the TBS gauge re-zeroed itself at the end and displayed "Full", and all but a few shunts were on just before completion of charging. Whoohoo!


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## 1-ev.com (Nov 4, 2010)

Val, Great Job!!

I have a question: 

What is the latest on the house circuit breakers, specially with "Juice" ? type B breakers ?

I see in FAQ it shows 14-50R RV 50A outlet.

North America - 240v case.

Thank you, -Y.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I question the means by which the AC voltage is being measured. I have a lot of experience reading voltage and current of mains voltage waveforms, including significant distortion, and the correct way (IMHO) is to sample the waveform precisely at a rate which is an integer multiple of the frequency. I have used as low as 600 samples/second and as high as 2400, and I have been able to achieve measurement accuracy of better than 1% true RMS (including DC).

For 60 Hz, a 600/s sampling rate gives 10 samples per cycle, while for 50 Hz it gives 12/cycle. If you take samples over a 100 mSec period, you obtain an integral number of 10 or 12 cycles, and it can be shown mathematically that there is very little difference in reading no matter at what phase angle the readings start.

I use a 10 bit ADC and I take each reading and square it for a maximum of 1023*1023 = 104569 counts, but for a sine wave or the equivalent DC it is really 1023 / sqrt(2) = 723 so the square is 523264. I take these samples at 600/sec for 100 mSec so 60 samples, and the sum of squares is then 31395870, which fits well within a 32 bit unsigned long integer of 4294967295. I then adjust the value by dividing by 60, or actually 64 which involves just a simple 6 bit shift, for a value of 490560. Then I take a square root, which is the only floating point operation required, to get 700.4. this is easily scaled to the original 723 if required, but since the reading must be scaled to real world voltage units anyway, it is not necessary. In fact, the only time real world units are needed is for the human readable display.

In my data acquisition designs, I usually use a clock-driven timer which generates an interrupt at precise intervals corresponding to the sample rate desired, in this case 600/sec. The ISR simply starts the sampling and conversion, and then allows other processing to continue. When the ADC has finished its conversion, it generates another interrupt, which reads the value, performs the square function, and adds it to the 32 bit accumulator. At the end of the prescribed number of samples, it stores the value in another variable, zeroes the original, and continues. Thus you can read the stored value at any time it is needed, and at that time perform the floating point square root function. Thus the ISRs contribute very little overhead, and the conversion of raw data to true RMS is very accurate and efficient. You really don't want hard-coded delay functions except for very short intervals of a few microseconds.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> Transformer cores are quite expensive !
> 
> ...


It's better to use the redesigned version of the charger. The additional buck is not a great solution because of very high risk of applying full rectified voltage to the downstream charger. Say, load suddenly disappears but your buck stage does not react soon enough - you just blew up your downstream charger...

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

1-ev.com said:


> Val, Great Job!!
> 
> I have a question:
> 
> ...


Not sure what the exact question is but We advise 60A breaker on a 14-50R line. If your load is on for <3 hours, you are allowed to draw full 50A from it per NEC.

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I question the means by which the AC voltage is being measured. I have a lot of experience reading voltage and current of mains voltage waveforms, including significant distortion, and the correct way (IMHO) is to sample the waveform precisely at a rate which is an integer multiple of the frequency. I have used as low as 600 samples/second and as high as 2400, and I have been able to achieve measurement accuracy of better than 1% true RMS (including DC).
> 
> For 60 Hz, a 600/s sampling rate gives 10 samples per cycle, while for 50 Hz it gives 12/cycle. If you take samples over a 100 mSec period, you obtain an integral number of 10 or 12 cycles, and it can be shown mathematically that there is very little difference in reading no matter at what phase angle the readings start.
> 
> ...


HI Paul - thanks for your write up! Yes, this approach would definitely be much more precise than what we now have - once you add the required linear isolation chip with associated circuitry... 

The question is, how much precision is really necessary. All the circuitry required (isolation amplifier, isolated DC/DC, resistor dividers, etc) will cost ~$15 in volume, which means it adds ~$20 to the kit cost. May not seem much but... if you are going to this length for 1% precise input voltage reading, why not go for 0.1% precision on the output current? With thermal compensation, zero-drift amps, etc. 

The point is, a good design is only as precise as needed for the application. Otherwise it's overpriced and unnecessarily complex.

Now, in this particular case, it may seem that we need more precision on the input voltage because of the way J1772 current limiting is implemented. But in fact that's not what's needed. What's needed is the way to directly measure the input current - with something like AC-1075 current sensor (that is used in our JuiceBox EVSEs) hooked to one of the free analog Arduino pins through a simple diode-resistor network. 

I have just added this mod to the feature list for the next hardware revision. It will be implemented on the diode bridge board (that sits under the main power board) - together with placements for the inrush resistors (that now don't really have a place anywhere right now and are supposed to be mounted outside of the charger enclosure). 

Thanks for bringing this up and driving a very useful discussion.

Valery


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't have the latest schematics, but I would assume the basic circuitry of the V9.0 would be similar enough. I question the reasoning behind using the voltage at the output of the FWB into the 15uF capacitor, which is then filtered by 27k/2M and a 0.1uF capacitor. The peak voltage which is used for the displayed input voltage will vary considerably due to the current being drawn by the IGBT bridge, as well as the variation in the forward drop of the diode bridge, and the waveform of the AC supply itself. You already have the isolation amplifier for Vbop, and AFAIK its only purpose in the control board as mVout is for the input voltage display in the code listed above.

The same isolation amplifier could be used to measure the direct AC voltage by waveform sampling. The ISO124 is rather expensive, but there are some much cheaper alternatives, such as:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/amc1100.pdf

Actually, I question the need for isolation, since it is possible to use an instrumentation (differential) amplifier with 1M or greater resistors, for a maximum of 300 uA on 300V peak mains. It is also quite simple to read the +/- excursions of the AC waveform by using an offset to the PIC's ADC input. The 1% resistors required are very inexpensive even for 50ppm tempco. I only question the measurement method because of "tomofreno"'s post with the complaint of inaccurate and erratic voltage readings.


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

OK, I've mucked my way a little further and have made it to the inductors. All of the pictures I've found have been of hand wound wire on round cores. In the kit I recieved one like that and one much smaller square unit that has a label on it CWS EK55246-221M-50AH. Which one is the PFC inductor and which one is the output or buck? I'm trying to attach a photo of the two inductors. I apologise if the photo file is too large.
I am working on a basic 12 KW PFC kit.

respectfully,
John


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> OK, I've mucked my way a little further and have made it to the inductors. All of the pictures I've found have been of hand wound wire on round cores. In the kit I recieved one like that and one much smaller square unit that has a label on it CWS EK55246-221M-50AH. Which one is the PFC inductor and which one is the output or buck? I'm trying to attach a photo of the two inductors. I apologise if the photo file is too large.
> I am working on a basic 12 KW PFC kit.
> 
> respectfully,
> John


Hi John - the larger one is normally an output inductor. BUT if you have output voltage more than 250V, it might be better to use the larger one for PFC.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Oosm3yjWM


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> It's better to use the redesigned version of the charger. The additional buck is not a great solution because of very high risk of applying full rectified voltage to the downstream charger. Say, load suddenly disappears but your buck stage does not react soon enough - you just blew up your downstream charger...
> 
> V


OK i will do that. The only problem is space. I will have to make some rearrangements to fit double caps etc... 
Can you tell me how much input capacitance can i get away with? Now i use two banks of 4P2S 1800uF 200V for cca 7600uF 400V group capacitance yes? 
So could i use 2S2P 3300uF 400V caps for group C of 3300uF at 800V? 
The problem as i see it would be current ripple at 230VAC single phase public network where i would connect occasionally for 3,5kW charge. Otherwise 3phase full bridge would get very little ripple. Please advise if it is viable to go on with 3300uf caps or maybe 4700uF...

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Keep energy stored roughly the same and you will be fine. So for double the voltage, you need quarter of capacitance. 

Thanks
V


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I don't have the latest schematics, but I would assume the basic circuitry of the V9.0 would be similar enough...


 The V13 driver board is quite different in this regard. It uses the PC817 chip for mains voltage, and is not as accurate as the chip used on the V9 boards. The J1772 spec is based on current not power, 32A at 50% duty cycle, so it would be better to measure input current directly as Valery said, though the oscillation of the input current magnitude will complicate things a bit. I think just adding a factor of 1.2 will get me close, only issue will be if voltage measurement varies significantly summer to winter due to temperature.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

OK, I have the new schematics now, and I have printed them as PDF so they are easier to work with (and you are free to add them to the EMW website or whatever):
http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/

So I see that the voltage is now being estimated by means of the transfer characteristics of the optocoupler PC817, which is a 4 terminal device and the base of the transistor is not connected to the collector as shown in the schematic. Here are the specs:
http://www.sharpsma.com/download/PC817XNNSZ0Fpdf

Note that the transfer ratio is highly variable. For 5 mA input, and 5V output, the collector current can be 2.5 to 30 mA, or transfer ratio of 50% to 600%. The LED is driven by a 200k resistor from 110 to 450 VDC for a current of 0.5 to 2.25 mA. So at a nominal 300 VDC it will be 1.5 mA and the output current will be 0.75 to 9.0 mA and the voltage drop on R4 at 2.5 kOhms will be 1.875 at 50% or at the 5 V rail at 150% or more.

Thus it appears that the mvOut signal is really only an indicator of voltage present and not for an actual voltage reading. It may be possible to test the PC817 and select those with a usable transfer ratio, and then adjust R4 to get a meaningful reading at a particular voltage. But I doubt that the transfer characteristic is linear, and it will certainly be affected by temperature and aging.

I assume this change was done to save the considerable cost of the isolation amplifier and DC-DC converter, but I think it should be noted that the display voltage reading is only an approximation. And in fact I would not have it at all, since it seems to be a source of confusion when the readings do not match the actual voltage.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> OK, I have the new schematics now, and I have printed them as PDF so they are easier to work with (and you are free to add them to the EMW website or whatever):
> http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/
> 
> So I see that the voltage is now being estimated by means of the transfer characteristics of the optocoupler PC817, which is a 4 terminal device and the base of the transistor is not connected to the collector as shown in the schematic. Here are the specs:
> ...


 Yes, I think maybe Valery was thinking it was only used to detect 240VAC versus 120VAC connected to the charger, and forgot about its use in the J1772 calc, so he thought a very rough measurement was good enough. 

I doubt the current sensor he said he will add will be retrofitable, so maybe I will just see what the PC817 says the input voltage is when I connect to an EVSE, then set my input/output currents to give me close to max power based on that rather than rely on the power calculation. The V9 board I used to have gave much better voltage measurement.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have some questions and/or constructive criticism of the design. Here are images of the relevant schematics:

















Perhaps I don't fully understand what the circuit does, but it looks like the PFC stage conditions the mains AC supply to get 340-380 VDC on the bank of capacitors C1-C14 (7280 uF), which is then connected externally to the DC input of the buck converter which in turn supplies up to 450 VDC and up to 100A for battery charging. Other than the question that a battery charger may not need so much filtering, I think I see how this works.

I already mentioned the problem I see with using the optocoupler U5 for input voltage measurement, so no more need be said. It appears that U2 is an isolated voltage regulator or controller, but I could not find any specifications or sources for an A7520. It appears to use Vout and the -15VDC from the 79105 "S1" to generate a "vOut" voltage to the control PCB. This may be what is labeled "V" on that schematic, and it is filtered and sent to the controller as A1-Vsense.

[edit] The device is actually an HCPL-7520, Isolated Linear Sensing IC:
http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-0956EN

It may be advantageous instead to use an isolated error amplifier such as:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FO/FOD2742A.pdf
or
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/ADuM3190.pdf
[/edit]

Is there a detailed theory of operation for this unit? It would help immensely. Also I watched the video you had posted but the screen with rolling data did not show anything useful.

[edit2] I just had an idea for a simple and inexpensive isolation amplifier. You can use two identical optoisolators (perhaps a dual device), and feed the LED for one from, say, a 100k resistor to the high voltage (0-400V) you want to measure. Feed the other LED with a 1k resistor from the output of an op-amp. The inputs of the op-amp are driven from the phototransistors of the op-amps. When the circuit stabilizes, the voltage from the op-amp should be 1/100 that of the high voltage you want to measure. As long as the optocouplers are identical, or at least very similar, this should provide a very linear voltage measurement over a limited range, but at least from 100-400 VDC. It does not require a DC-DC converter, and can be made from less than a dollar in parts.
[/edit2]


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

finished my control board . only difference with everyone else is I don't have a cute little red wire going from the top of r38 to I don't know where because no ones pictures show were it goes ??? its not in the instructions ??

onto the non pfc v13 driver board questions ... 

1.in the directions given to me and others you specify that u8 is no longer valid ... ok but further along they ask for two a3120 chips . u6 and u7 ... I only have one ?is this normal and if so is it considered u6 or u7 ?? 

2.also to help anyone out as well as to be sure of my installation . chip u5 the optocoupler. http://classiccmp.org/rtellason/chipdata/pc817.pdf

I placed pin 1 on the "square" pin on the pcb board which I assume to be the positive (anode ) just want to validate because besides the markings on the chip not much indication of the orientation ?? 

3. I did not have a 2.4k resistor for r4 . I put a 2.7k ... should I buy a 2.4 to replace or will I be ok ?

4. instructions ask for 4 male 90 degree spade connectors ... I only have 3 ? ... but I do have 5 female connectors 4 of which go onto my power board ?? what am I to do with this .... 
and the positioning of the 4th connector on the board is confusing ??? ... I put my r6 10 ohm resistor over the r6-non pfc pins leaving 2 empt under the resistor and 4 to the right of this written r6-pfc and under that buck (pfc) where should I put the 4th male connector once I figure were to get one quick :s ????


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

is it normal to have spare parts when the charger boards are finished lol ???

I have a yellow 105 cap and a 200 k ohm resistor and 2 x 222a 3 pin rectifiers which have me kinda worried lol 

the rest just a few of 1k 10k resistors which im guessing are just thrown in the kit without actually counting .... 

any answers appreciated because tomorrow im putting it all together once I get the few missing parts ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok third post today ... last one for the day then its good night ... I would love not to have to ask these questions but its so darn unclear . ive went through all of sexstraps build photos and although he got it built he did it with his own enclosure and not like emw says its suppose to fit . 

http://electrobeatev.blogspot.co.uk...00-07:00&max-results=7&start=14&by-date=false


I am looking for a photo of how to fit the darn igbt and diode bridge onto the heat sink . the new model output bridge mskd70-08 d932 ... the white one higher and bigger then all the plans and photos that emw has ! I just cant figure how to mount it onto the heat sink under the power board B+ out without either shorting all 3 diode bolts or having it half off the darn heatsink ! also the instructions say and I quote ! 

​Prepare the IGBT 
i. Mount the IGBT on a heatsink (don’t forget to apply thermal paste between the IGBT and the heatsink) 
ii. Solder together the E2 and G2 pins of the IGBT 
iii. Fit the 2 supplied female spade connectors on the E1 and G1 pins of the IGBT 
c. Place the pre-assembled power board on top of the IGBT, fitting the pins of the spade connector through their mounting holes from the bottom of the board. You might need to bend the IGBT pins slightly to make a fit. Secure the board to IGBT’s top terminal; solder the spade connector pins. 
d. Place the third female spade connector from the top of the board

there are no e1 g1 or e2 g2 pins on this darn igbt ! skm145gb066d
​http://www.galco.com/techdoc/sekg/skm145gb066d_dat.pdf

there are however bolts 1, 2, 3 and pins 4,5,6,7 . 

as for the diode bridge mskd70-08 d932 im guessing i put pins 2 and 3 . and my bolts 2 and 3 that are now together go to the B+ of the power baord . ? 
http://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_download/123885-mskd70-msad70-mscd70-rev2-pdf


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Keep energy stored roughly the same and you will be fine. So for double the voltage, you need quarter of capacitance.
> 
> Thanks
> V


Hi V

I am preparing a new add-in capacitor board for 680uF input caps before IGBT. I will wire them 2S2P 680uF and add one 15uF 800V for ripple smoothing. I will put this board directly ontop of the screw-in IGBT input contacts +(C1) and -(E2). I also got some snubber caps though. Some 1uF 800V film caps with thick legs to put directly across IGBT C1 and E2 contacts. It should supposedly smooth out switching ripple further. Would you reccomend it?










Also i would like to know your opinion. Do you think i must double the two 680uF 450V caps after the IGBT and L1. I think they are capable of carrying 150VDC of the output. I am running out of space here... .

tnx

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

How am i suppose to fit the diode bridge on the heatsink ... It doesnt clear under the power board even less if you jump pins 2 and 3 ... It doesnt fit anywhere else !!!! ????









As for the power board to igbt connections this is what i did . Its not what the instructions say but its what i did can someone validate its ok ?? Is there a problem if the pins 6and 7 that were welded together ln the igbt touch the e2 hole on the pcb ? Should i shorten pins or it doesnt matter since e2 on the pcb is not used ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Done for the day and until answers are given  ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Useful updates for anyone building the non pfc 12 kw charger with v13 driver board. 

-there is only one a3120 chip . not two . waiting on reply if its u6 or u7 im guessing u6 .

- also there are only 3 male spade connectors on this board not 4 like in the pfc version . confirmation of were will come .

- as for my diode bridge positioning problem ive been having for months . I have the wrong diode bridge ( white and to high for my installation under power board.) . valery sent me one low clearance black one very quickly i should receive it this week .


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Next question. On the Arduino software, .pde files and .h files. I have found Arduino 0022 through Google as I couldn't locate it on VMcharger V12P. I've unzipped it, run it, declined the option to update it, "opened" the "charger_2013_07_31_V12.pde" file, checked the switches as listed on page 56 of the build notes, and tried to compile. There was a lot of red text at the bottom of the screen and in browsing through it I saw a problem with "include <MemoryFree.h>" and also TimerOne.h and uLCD_144_SPE.h. I can't find the MemoryFree.h file anywhere and finally commented it out. I found the other two files and copied them into many places in the Arduino file tree to see if it would pick them up from somewhere. I must have hit the right place sometime since it now shows TimerOne.h and uLCD_144_SPE.h on tabs in the "sketch book"? I'm still getting errors compiling but they are now listed as "undefined reference to 'uLCD_144_SPE:rintStr(...." or "undefined reference to 'TimerOne::setPwmDuty(...."
I expect I am missing a step to get the files really included in the compile process or maybe I don't really have them in the correct sub-directory.

Any pointers for where to look for either the solution or a reference to Arduino instructions and errors?

I forgot to mention I'm building a base model 12KW PFC unit.

respectfully,
John


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

John N said:


> Next question. On the Arduino software, .pde files and .h files. I have found Arduino 0022 through Google as I couldn't locate it on VMcharger V12P. I've unzipped it, run it, declined the option to update it, "opened" the "charger_2013_07_31_V12.pde" file, checked the switches as listed on page 56 of the build notes, and tried to compile. There was a lot of red text at the bottom of the screen and in browsing through it I saw a problem with "include <MemoryFree.h>" and also TimerOne.h and uLCD_144_SPE.h. I can't find the MemoryFree.h file anywhere and finally commented it out. I found the other two files and copied them into many places in the Arduino file tree to see if it would pick them up from somewhere. I must have hit the right place sometime since it now shows TimerOne.h and uLCD_144_SPE.h on tabs in the "sketch book"? I'm still getting errors compiling but they are now listed as "undefined reference to 'uLCD_144_SPE:rintStr(...." or "undefined reference to 'TimerOne::setPwmDuty(...."
> I expect I am missing a step to get the files really included in the compile process or maybe I don't really have them in the correct sub-directory.
> 
> Any pointers for where to look for either the solution or a reference to Arduino instructions and errors?
> ...


 The LCD_144 library is at the EMW site: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/99 - Supporting/

Don't know why timer1 isn't there. You can get it at the Arduino website: http://playground.arduino.cc/code/timer1

Both folders should be in your libraries folder under arduino: C:\Arduino\arduino-0022\libraries


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

My EMW charger frequently quits charging after the CC phase. The other day I was there as it made the transition. It ended the CC phase and displayed the "Type2..." screen indicating it was starting the CV phase, then displayed the normal charging display with duty cycle, output current and voltage, temperatures, etc. But it only displayed this about 3 seconds then displayed the "Charging complete..." screen. So it is terminating type1 and starting type2 ok, but for some reason terminates type2 immediately. Stop variable is output current < 0.05C, which is 9A in my case. It would be less than this when the step first starts, before current ramps up. Maybe it is checking it too quickly, seeing it is less than 9A, and terminating?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi all,

I tried to charge now at 50A just to prove i can and my fuses are strained to the end. I noticed something else however. When my charger started to overheat to 62deg C it didnt lower current below 50A!!! I guess my conditional has overridden temp reduction loop. So when conditioning "else" statement i had to return control also to the temp loop. Here is the code, it now works for me:

pinMode(pin_110relay, INPUT); // i declared input pin as
pinMode(pin_fan, OUTPUT); // and left output pin as

// i added command to switch the output on when the charger starts. Basicaly i just added one line to EOC start line 
digitalWrite(pin_EOC, HIGH); 
digitalWrite(pin_fan, HIGH); 

//BMS derating to 5A
if(digital read(pin_110relay)==LOW) { //condition met, BMS shunting
maxOutC1=maxOutC/8; //reducing to 1/8 is 5A for me
}
else {
maxOutC1=maxOutC*abs(ABSmaxHeatSinkT-normT)/(ABSmaxHeatSinkT-maxHeatSinkT); //return control to charger
}

This way temp loop gets control back in the event that charger is overheating while my conditional applies.

Do any of you know some Arduino programming? Do you think my code position is logical AFTER the temp reduction loop? I keep thinking i had to put my code BEFORE the temp reduction conditional. Just so the else statement from before would stay true: 
else {
maxOutC1=maxOutC
}

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Still no answer ....














Were do the male 90 degree spade connectors go on the driver board ! Non pfc v13 driver board ..... 

There are no instructions for this board only what goes on or not and even that is incomplet and misleading as the reference is the pfc v13 driver board ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Still no answer ....
> View attachment 17810
> View attachment 17811
> 
> ...


U7 needs to be populated, along with R18. R6-non-PFC (10R power resistor) needs to go into the pads that have R6-non-PFC resistor outline - these are higher on your photo than where you placed the resistor right now. At the moment, your R6 is sitting in the holes where 90-degree pins should go. 

I believe there is a note in the manual regarding board orientation. Specifically, the non-PFC board is supposed to be inserted with components towards the rest of the power board. If you try to do that, you will see that the 90-degree pins have to be placed from the side of the components on the driver board. 

Also, when you do that trial fit to power board, you will see which pads the 90-degree pins have to go in. Specifically, on your second photo, 2 of the 90-degree pins go to the pad set on the right marked 'Buck (non-PFC)'. Then 1 pin goes into the pads sitting on the ground plane of the left.

Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> The LCD_144 library is at the EMW site: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/99 - Supporting/
> 
> Don't know why timer1 isn't there. You can get it at the Arduino website: http://playground.arduino.cc/code/timer1
> 
> Both folders should be in your libraries folder under arduino: C:\Arduino\arduino-0022\libraries


guys, pls take all code from one folder: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/30 - Firmware/V12/

unzip and install in the right locations (libs to your Arduino libraries folder, main code - anywhere)

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> is it normal to have spare parts when the charger boards are finished lol ???
> 
> I have a yellow 105 cap and a 200 k ohm resistor and 2 x 222a 3 pin rectifiers which have me kinda worried lol
> 
> ...


some extras are normal, yes. 

3-pin rectifiers - what do they say on the part?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> My EMW charger frequently quits charging after the CC phase. The other day I was there as it made the transition. It ended the CC phase and displayed the "Type2..." screen indicating it was starting the CV phase, then displayed the normal charging display with duty cycle, output current and voltage, temperatures, etc. But it only displayed this about 3 seconds then displayed the "Charging complete..." screen. So it is terminating type1 and starting type2 ok, but for some reason terminates type2 immediately. Stop variable is output current < 0.05C, which is 9A in my case. It would be less than this when the step first starts, before current ramps up. Maybe it is checking it too quickly, seeing it is less than 9A, and terminating?


Tom - there is a special piece of code in the firmware to prevent this:
---around line ~1290--------
// use small hysteresis (spread*2) to avoid jitter 
// if current or voltage too LOW, INcrease duty cycle
if(out1 < CX-spread) {
// only if we are safe to go up - this is slow protection as it just stops duty from rising
if(duty<MAXDUTY && outC<maxOutC1) {
duty++; 
}
} else {
out1Reached=1;
}
-------then around line ~1340----------
// also, no point to break on stopMin before the CX condition has been reached
// do break if we spent over X minutes in this step
if(stopType==2 && out2 < stopValue && (out1Reached==1 || (millis()-timer_step)/60000>CV_timeout) ) {
breakCycle=1;
}
-------------------------------------------

these are supposed to help avoid the situation you describe. 

So the only guess I have is that in your CV step, the charger gets to >9A in a few seconds but by that time, the voltage is well above CV point and it just cuts current and therefore termination condition is now met. 

Does this behavior depend on the output current setting?

valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi V
> 
> I am preparing a new add-in capacitor board for 680uF input caps before IGBT. I will wire them 2S2P 680uF and add one 15uF 800V for ripple smoothing. I will put this board directly ontop of the screw-in IGBT input contacts +(C1) and -(E2). I also got some snubber caps though. Some 1uF 800V film caps with thick legs to put directly across IGBT C1 and E2 contacts. It should supposedly smooth out switching ripple further. Would you reccomend it?
> 
> ...


looks ok. Snubber would be a good idea if your main caps are not very close to IGBT


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> some extras are normal, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 3-pin rectifiers - what do they say on the part?



Pn 
2222a
C36

Thanks for the answers i should be good to finish it know


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Tom - there is a special piece of code in the firmware to prevent this:
> ---around line ~1290--------
> // use small hysteresis (spread*2) to avoid jitter
> // if current or voltage too LOW, INcrease duty cycle
> ...


 I'm running the V11 firmware which doesn't have the "do break if we spent over X minutes at this step" modification, V11 code:
_// also, no point to break on stopMin before the CX condition has been reached
if(stopType==2 && out2 < stopValue && out1Reached==1) {
breakCycle=1;
}
#ifdef NiXX_

I've only charged at between 25A and 55A. It usually doesn't enter CV, but has a couple times at 55A charge current. I think I'll modifythe code in my V11 firmware as in your post:
_if(stopType==2 && out2 < stopValue && (out1Reached==1 *||* *(millis()-timer_step)/60000>CV_timeout) )* {
breakCycle=1;_

i.e. add the bold part, and see if that fixes the issue. Everything is working well otherwise, so I'm reluctant to migrate to V12.

Edit: got a compiling error due to timer_step not declared, so maybe I'll have to use V12.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

crackerjackz said:


> Pn
> 2222a
> C36
> 
> Thanks for the answers i should be good to finish it know


That's not a "three terminal diode", that's the part number for one of the most popular small signal NPN transistors ever made. In fact, I would say that if you don't know what a 2N2222 is you have no business assembling an electronic kit that plugs into the AC mains.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Situations like this point to a serious problem with kits. It seems it would be far better to use SMDs for most of the components and have them machine placed. For a 4"x6" board the assembly cost runs about $40-$55 each for small quantities (30, 20, 10). There is also some NRE for tooling but there are sometimes special discounts. I use:
www.aapcb.com

When I receive the boards I just need to hand assemble about 15 thru-hole parts which takes about 1/2 hour per board. I get the boards for about $5 each from www.pcbcart.com. 

Some thru-hole parts are becoming hard to get, so it may be wise to use SMDs for future major revisions.

There is always a risk when allowing people to build their own boards and assemblies, and I'm not sure how much money is saved because of the up front cost of making individual kits, and the time spent doing the assembly and troubleshooting. The many versions complicates this further.


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

To anyone building the non pfc v13 driver board here is a picture of MY COMPLET setup if you need referance  ... Ill try to write instructions soon enough to help others ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

V13 non pfc driver board complet


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Situations like this point to a serious problem with kits. It seems it would be far better to use SMDs for most of the components and have them machine placed. For a 4"x6" board the assembly cost runs about $40-$55 each for small quantities (30, 20, 10). There is also some NRE for tooling but there are sometimes special discounts. I use:
> www.aapcb.com
> 
> When I receive the boards I just need to hand assemble about 15 thru-hole parts which takes about 1/2 hour per board. I get the boards for about $5 each from www.pcbcart.com.
> ...


Absolutely agree. That's the approach we took with the EVSE products (JuiceBox) - PCB is pre-assembled, enclosure hardware is pre-stamped, etc. The difference is the volume. At the much lower volume for DC charging products, the price increase on the kit will be high enough to cause the substantial overall price hike for the kit. Also, one needs to run stock and order batches. 

So for now, we can't do it and keep meaningful pricing. As we get more volume later this year, we will start doing this, however.

Valery.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> That's not a "three terminal diode", that's the part number for one of the most popular small signal NPN transistors ever made. In fact, I would say that if you don't know what a 2N2222 is you have no business assembling an electronic kit that plugs into the AC mains.




I never called it a diode . I called it a 3 pin rectifier . As for my competence in building a kit like so . Im an 8 year working electrician in some of the biggest projects in canada . I also have two years of cegep in industrial electronics . I have 2 ev builds done so far a motocross a john deere gator and know a 25000$ bmw project . I can read schematics and pcb layouts great but shouldnt have to so much !!! I have 3 kids under 3 years and very little free time . Incomplet instructions or even worse no instructions piss me off as instead of building i lose my time reading schematics and pcb layouts or online part sheets ... 

I respect your knowledge tesserect as ive seen you answer much but dont think because i dont means i shouldnt be around a pcb . thats insulting and trust me im the guy in my area people call when pcb boards blow or automated machines fail . I wouldnt build it i clouldnt , engineers do that but ill fix anything electrical or mechanical !

My respectful steamoff i hadnt seen your post till know !


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

anyone looking to find the arduino -0022 software on the emw site and cant find it like me .... http://files.arduino.cc/downloads/arduino-0022.zip


I am reluctant to plug in my usb cable to the arduino as im not 100% sure of which is the ground pin . from my understanding the groundpin would be the lowest of the series of 8 pins when the control board is installed in which only 6 are used for programming . in the pcb layouts I would believe it to be the square pin on the control board just over the arduino to the left ? 
just want to make sure don't wanna blow my arduino or my usb adapter for that matter . 


its now 11:30 im off to bed as the horses need to be fed at 6 but tomorrow for sure is the first low voltage startup


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> anyone looking to find the arduino -0022 software on the emw site and cant find it like me .... http://files.arduino.cc/downloads/arduino-0022.zip


posted to site


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> anyone looking to find the arduino -0022 software on the emw site and cant find it like me .... http://files.arduino.cc/downloads/arduino-0022.zip
> 
> 
> I am reluctant to plug in my usb cable to the arduino as im not 100% sure of which is the ground pin . from my understanding the groundpin would be the lowest of the series of 8 pins when the control board is installed in which only 6 are used for programming . in the pcb layouts I would believe it to be the square pin on the control board just over the arduino to the left ?
> ...


There is clear labeling on the PCB that says 'BLK' and 'GRN' on the sides of the connector. FTDI board has those markings, as well. Align the two and you should be fine.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

crackerjackz said:


> I never called it a diode . I called it a 3 pin rectifier .


A diode is another name for a rectifier...



crackerjackz said:


> As for my competence in building a kit like so . Im an 8 year working electrician in some of the biggest projects in canada .


An electrician, eh? Then I bet you have come across similar situations in your profession? You know, stuff like a water heater that draws 30A supplied by 14ga. romex? Or finding that the "extra" green wire in a conduit was used to add another circuit? Or my personal favorite, finding an Eaton breaker forced into a SquareD panel... If you saw mistakes like that I imagine you would conclude that whoever did them had no business messing around with electricity, right? Well, there you go.



crackerjackz said:


> I can read schematics and pcb layouts great but shouldnt have to so much !!! I have 3 kids under 3 years and very little free time . Incomplet instructions or even worse no instructions piss me off as instead of building i lose my time reading schematics and pcb layouts or online part sheets ...


Oh, I agree that the documentation for this kit is terrible, but that is also a known quantity. I mean, people have been bitching about this for nearly 3 years now...

As for your comment about having very little free time - why did you buy the kit instead of the preassembled (and, I hope, tested) product? I mean, not only does it take more time to build - and debug - a kit, but you also need to have a decent selection of electronic tools to do so, including a scope. 

I ignored the rest of your reply, as it only seemed to be an ad hominem attack on engineers in general, and me specifically. I know my posting here won't convince you to put down the soldering iron, so to speak, but my hope is that maybe someone else who is equally as inexperienced with electronics as you will think twice before buying this kit.


And a side note: my participation in this thread should not be taken as an endorsement of this product.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Tesserect your an ass. 

I didnt bitch engineers i said that they build the boards that i couldnt build. But i can fix them. 

I wont justify my right in building this charger in the knowledge sense . I am more than qualified to do so. And if the instructions were good a lot more people could and would. Which would be a good thing for evs.

Why build it myself ? I am getting the charger csa approved . I want to know as much about it as possible as to be able to pass inspection with no hassles. Csa approval is a must for canada quebec chargers for ev´s.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

crackerjackz said:


> Tesserect your an ass.


Oh, I don't disagree with your assessment of me at all, but I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion at hand.



crackerjackz said:


> I wont justify my right in building this charger in the knowledge sense . I am more than qualified to do so.


Right. This is a classic example of what is known in psychology as the Dunning-Kruger effect: the unskilled overestimate their ability while the highly skilled underestimate it.



crackerjackz said:


> Why build it myself ? I am getting the charger csa approved . I want to know as much about it as possible as to be able to pass inspection with no hassles. Csa approval is a must for canada quebec chargers for ev´s.


I can assure you this charger cannot meet the standards of the CSA (or any other safety agency) because: 1) The output is not isolated from the AC mains; 2) meeting creepage and clearance requirements, as well as the application of "double" or "reinforced" insulation is entirely up to you, the kit-builder; 3) no provision to interrupt the connection to the mains in the event of a ground fault.

To say nothing of EMI emissions/immunity requirements... I mean, there isn't even a line filter present, and even a 5W USB charger needs one to pass EMI emissions limits.

But feel free to spend as much of your money as you like proving me wrong.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Lol it wont cost me much to prove you wrong . ill send you the picture of the csa approuval in a month or two . 

I told you . You dont know me or what i can do . When i show you the papers you can shove them up your ass just like what gets out of your mouth.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Right. This is a classic example of what is known in psychology as the Dunning-Kruger effect: the unskilled overestimate their ability while the highly skilled underestimate it.


Now I had just about enough of your pompous..... well yourself! If you do not want to add some meaningfull value to your posts please feel free to other threads on this forum.

As for the unskilled etc... I am an aviation(mechanical) engineer who used to build model and real airplanes. How i ended up converting EVs i dont know. I know however i learned a lot and i am still learning. This is the place i absorbed most of unrefined knowledge and then did my part in sharing it further. So if you dont have something usefull to contribute just hold your thoughts until you do. 



Tesseract said:


> I can assure you this charger cannot meet the standards of the CSA (or any other safety agency) because: 1) The output is not isolated from the AC mains; 2) meeting creepage and clearance requirements, as well as the application of "double" or "reinforced" insulation is entirely up to you, the kit-builder; 3) no provision to interrupt the connection to the mains in the event of a ground fault.


1. I decided on cost & performance estimate. 
2. I did it!!!
3. I use GFCI with my charger definitely. This is the reason i want to go to full triphase.



Tesseract said:


> To say nothing of EMI emissions/immunity requirements... I mean, there isn't even a line filter present, and even a 5W USB charger needs one to pass EMI emissions limits.
> But feel free to spend as much of your money as you like proving me wrong.


Well if I would measure the EMI in my car like they demand today i would fail automatically. But EU manufacturers go to Spain since their regulations allow testing of EMI outdors and they test it "in driving conditions" at 100km/h ... while i should go to some scarry test chamber and torque my motor on rollers with probes 20cm from my hood, spending thousands of €!!!
If that is the measure of their correctness then i will take the liberty and install this charger which is used only at home anyways... 

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

- i installed ardiuno 0222 

- Transferred the emw library files into the librairies arduino folder 

- ran the emw charger sketch and uncommented what had to be uncommented . 

Got error as below when uploading







... Messed around for 30 minutes and realized although not mentioned that the .h file with the sketch has to go into the ardiuno library folder as well ...

Fixed that problem 

But know ... I get this








Figured hell ill do the same . But i cant find a memoryfree.h file anywhere not on my computer nor on the files from the emw site ?? What to do ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

redownloaded all the emw files ... rescanned. nothing no memoryfree.h file anywhere ... my conclusion is theres a file missing just like the arduino installation files were missing on the site ?? valery ??


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> redownloaded all the emw files ... rescanned. nothing no memoryfree.h file anywhere ... my conclusion is theres a file missing just like the arduino installation files were missing on the site ?? valery ??


Sorry about that. Uploaded to http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/30 - Firmware/V12/

Valery


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

arber333 said:


> Now I had just about enough of your pompous..... well yourself! If you do not want to add some meaningfull value to your posts please feel free to other threads on this forum.


Tell me, arber333 - if I started off a post to you calling you "pompous" would you be inclined to consider the rest of what I wrote seriously? Well, despite that bit of rudeness I am going to extend that courtesy to you anyway.



arber333 said:


> As for the unskilled etc... I am an aviation(mechanical) engineer who used to build model and real airplanes.


Your background as a mechanical engineer that builds model and real airplanes strongly suggests you are up to the challenge of converting a car to electric, but that doesn't automatically translate into an ability to build a switchmode charger kit, especially one that is as poorly documented - and potentially dangerous if assembled incorrectly - as this one.

And here is the part of my admonition that crackerjack (and now you) seem to be ignoring: the more poorly a kit is documented, the more skill and knowledge you need to make sense of it. I don't want to belittle Valery's efforts to deliver an affordable high power charger to the DIY community, but my assessment is that this thing is one step up from a kludge/hack when it comes to design and documentation. I mean, in a couple of messages above this one crackerjackz just found out that a header file was missing from the source code!?!

Unsurprisingly, I don't think Valery should offer this product as a kit at all, and not just because it is so kludgy, but also because it often takes just as much time to put together a kit of parts for an electronic product as it does to just assemble the damn thing! 

At the very least, though, Valery should do some vetting of potential kit customers to weed out those who can't, for example, recognize the part number on a small signal transistor. Seriously - you need to be able to identify common electronic parts on sight to be able to put together a kit like this; no different than being able to differentiate between a sheet metal screw and a machine bolt to build an airplane, really.



arber333 said:


> Well if I would measure the EMI in my car like they demand today i would fail automatically. But EU manufacturers go to Spain since their regulations allow testing of EMI outdors and they test it "in driving conditions" at 100km/h ... ...


Oh, I totally agree that the EU has gone totally bat**** crazy when it comes to EMI regulations, but that doesn't mean there is no merit to them. Just adding an extra couple of cm to the connection between the IGBT module and its DC link capacitor can result in a tremendous amount of ringing that will wreak havoc on everything else - including that fussy little Arduino that supposedly controls this charger - if it doesn't outright destroy the IGBT itself.

In fact, problems related to EMI are the most common complaint to our support address, and chief among them is erratic RPM readings from using an unshielded cable for the RPM sensor and/or routing it alongside any of the high power cables.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ok so downloaded the memoryfolder installed ect ...

The program know compiles properly but when uploading i get a not in sync resp=0x00 error pictured below 








Uninstalled and reinstalled usb adapter . Rechecked its well on com3 and made sure arduino program is on com3 but no luck still the same error ? Is there something else missing ? File ? Program ? Something i should know ? 

Last minute thought i toke off arduino and pressed reset button not sure if without power a reset does much ? Probrebly not ? Anyway retried still same error !


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Tesserect ...


And here is the part of my admonition that crackerjack (and now you) seem to be ignoring: the more poorly a kit is documented, the more skill and knowledge you need to make sense of it. I don't want to belittle Valery's efforts to deliver an affordable high power charger to the DIY community, but my assessment is that this thing is one step up from a kludge/hack when it comes to design and documentation. I mean, in a couple of messages above this one crackerjackz just found out that a header file was missing from the source code!?!

Saying i shouldnt build a charger is the same as saying you shouldnt build nothing but electronics . Forget the ac power lines or even less hooking up the 100+ volts of an ev as you would be dangerous doing since you dont have the skills . You should play in 30 volts and less as the actual law states . 

This would be ridiculous . Anyone being careful and reading about and following instructions with the right tools can hook up there ev batteries. Is there danger . Yes even for the skilled . Ive worked with 25000 volt power lines and have still managed to spark a 12 volt or even a 100 volt dc system its part of the risk ... 

Just saying ... Stop bashing and start loving lol im on a diy forum its to do it myself !!!!


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> There is clear labeling on the PCB that says 'BLK' and 'GRN' on the sides of the connector. FTDI board has those markings, as well. Align the two and you should be fine.


im working now to fix my uploading problem . the arduino does have the labeling as you described but not the usb serial adapter ... its pins are named as goes ... 

GND/cts/vcc/txd/rxd/dtr ... there is no blk as you mention . im right now reading and losing my time figuring out what is going on. if I have the right usb serial adapter for this arduino ect ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

http://www.tinyosshop.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=600


says it all ... gnd is not grn at all ... hope my arduino isn't blown damnit .

well at least I know I didn't blow my arduino  lol its reverse polarity protected lol http://www.tinyosshop.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=221
I emailed the seller for the ftdi to usb adapter to know the details of the red and green leds but if someone can help before I get a reply that would help ? 
if all is running good with the usb adapter plugged into a com port should the green led be on even if the arduino is not there . does something indicate that the converter is up and working before having to plug in an arduino ? 
Im still getting a ( not in sync : resp=0x00 )error ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so all I can understand so far is when the usb adapter and arduino are connected and ok there should be a red power led that should be on (on the arduino not the converter chip) none in my case  

http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Arduino-Pro-Mini-schematic.pdf

I verified I did have 5.0 volts dc from pin vcc to gnd. but apon looking farther discovered the 5.0 volts wasn't going any further . reheated my welds and rechecked all is ok .

my vcc weld must have been bad from desoldering the hole board to resoldering it all over again on .1 headers . 

anyway all to say problem fixed ... starting low voltage testing


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> ok so all I can understand so far is when the usb adapter and arduino are connected and ok there should be a red power led that should be on (on the arduino not the converter chip) none in my case
> 
> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Arduino-Pro-Mini-schematic.pdf
> 
> ...


Great to hear!


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Oh, I agree that the documentation for this kit is terrible, but that is also a known quantity. I mean, people have been bitching about this for nearly 3 years now...


And it was stepped up quite dramatically around 6 months ago as you can see from the history of this forum. With the videos and all.

We did let the non-PFC version slip a bit, that's true...


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> And it was stepped up quite dramatically around 6 months ago as you can see from the history of this forum. With the videos and all.
> 
> We did let the non-PFC version slip a bit, that's true...


 As in any startup with limited resources, documentation lags development since attention is necessarily focused on the latter. I think the documentation for the PFC version is quite adequate now. I too would likely be complaining about the non-pfc documentation though, as I complained about the pfc documentation in the past. As for the other "shortcomings" mentioned, those are intentional in order to reduce cost. I think it has been made quite clear that EMW's main goal was to create a low cost relatively high power charger. In that regard it is similar to Rich's development of the unisolated Manzanita Micro chargers some years ago. I used a Manzanita PFC30 for about 3 1/2 years, and now the EMW on my car. Both have worked well for me. It has also been well understood by anyone who paid attention that the EMW charger has been in ongoing development, so for example the one I built has many improvements over the first one rwaudio built, and it is still improving. 

EMW is more of a collaboration than a company with products. They are open and share everything, posting both hardware and firmware as it is being developed rather than waiting until it is a well-tested product. You have to keep this in mind and realize you are purchasing something that is in ongoing development. The charger's hardware and firmware are open source, so it is relatively easy to look it over and see if it is adequate for your needs. This sort of thing is not suitable for all people, but great fun for those of us for which it is.

Taking account of their time in creating and supporting kits, it seems clear they don't make any money from it, and do it mainly because of their passion for ev's and to contribute to the ev community.


----------



## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Hi guys,

I've been working more on my unit this past week. I have V12 control board and V13 driver board in a PFC air cooled unit. I got the Arduino programmed last week without the memorywide.h file. When I tried to run the first test with just power to the 12V power supply, it didn't want to power up. I figured out that the 2 amp power supply couldn't start the 3 ea .6 amp fans. It kept going into shutdown and then restarting (the power supply). I figure the starting surge for the fans is just too much for the power supply or it is a weak unit. Unfortunately in the testing of the power supply I crossed the 12V buss with the 5V buss when I was connecting a hook clip for my meter.

That appears to have taken out my arduino. I was able to get to Sacramento to Frys to get another one since I didn't want to wait for a replacement. It cost $20 and is made by OSEPP. BIG WARNING!! It has a reversed pinout for the pins on the end of the board and they also had an order of the boards get out into the wild with the bootstrap code for the UNO instead of the ATmega328P that we use (of course I got one of those boards too). I was able to get it to take the code with the memorywide.h file and made a crossover connection for the six pins on the end.

Everythings happy and I start through the first calibration and the screen starts looping through "battery not connected or reversed". In testing tonight I find that there is no connection from the controller board to the driver board for the 5V buss so the A7520 doesn't have power so the A1 input is not there. Anyone know where the missing connection is supposed to be made? Is there an un-documented jumper from the upper left of the control board to the upper right of the driver board for the A, B, and +5V signals? Or is the PWM signal jumper supposed to be 6 pin instead of a 3 pin? I used a jumper lead to connect just the 5V lead from control to driver and it dropped out of the loop and took the calibration.

I also need a recomendation for a stiffer power supply to be able to put the fans back on line.

respectfully,
John


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi John - yes, you need to connect pin 6 of the PWM output connector on the control board and pin 6 of the PWM input connector on the driver board to supply 5V to the driver board. Updating manual...


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I received my low profile diode bridge last night so i can finally finish the power connections tonight . I looked at the data sheets but dont find which is anode or cathode ? I know the diode screws have to be doubled the emw instructions show this pretty well . But which side is anode and which cathode i dont ser any referance on the part or data sherts ? Or it has no importance ? 

As always help appreciated thank you ..,.

As for the control board and driver board the +5 volts is mentioned in the non pfc kit nothing about pwm wires though ? Just a pfc connection maybe ?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

John N said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been working more on my unit this past week. I have V12 control board and V13 driver board in a PFC air cooled unit. I got the Arduino programmed last week without the memorywide.h file. When I tried to run the first test with just power to the 12V power supply, it didn't want to power up. I figured out that the 2 amp power supply couldn't start the 3 ea .6 amp fans. It kept going into shutdown and then restarting (the power supply). I figure the starting surge for the fans is just too much for the power supply or it is a weak unit. Unfortunately in the testing of the power supply I crossed the 12V buss with the 5V buss when I was connecting a hook clip for my meter.


 Kind of tight in there to probe, I've done similar.



> That appears to have taken out my arduino. I was able to get to Sacramento to Frys to get another one since I didn't want to wait for a replacement. It cost $20 and is made by OSEPP. BIG WARNING!! It has a reversed pinout for the pins on the end of the board and they also had an order of the boards get out into the wild with the bootstrap code for the UNO instead of the ATmega328P that we use (of course I got one of those boards too). I was able to get it to take the code with the memorywide.h file and made a crossover connection for the six pins on the end.


 Good to know!



> Everythings happy and I start through the first calibration and the screen starts looping through "battery not connected or reversed". In testing tonight I find that there is no connection from the controller board to the driver board for the 5V buss so the A7520 doesn't have power so the A1 input is not there. Anyone know where the missing connection is supposed to be made? Is there an un-documented jumper from the upper left of the control board to the upper right of the driver board for the A, B, and +5V signals? Or is the PWM signal jumper supposed to be 6 pin instead of a 3 pin? I used a jumper lead to connect just the 5V lead from control to driver and it dropped out of the loop and took the calibration.


 The V13 driver board receives 5V from the controller board. You can see a pin marked "+5 out" on the 6 pin header above the green button on the control board, and a "+5 in" pin on the 6 pin header on the upper right of the driver board.



> I also need a recomendation for a stiffer power supply to be able to put the fans back on line.


 I added some 150 cfm fans so needed more power. I bought a 9A adapter from here:
http://www.12vadapters.com/
Only been using it a short time so can't say how reliable it is.

respectfully,
John[/QUOTE]


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

finished building the charger . started low voltage testing . screen loads ect asks for vcc ect ... green button works fine from what I think It does ... select bascally . but the red button doesn't do anything ? I toke out the arduino because voltage testing gave nothing but a 5 volt difference at all times between vcc and pins d2 and d3 which are the button arduino inputs . 

I notice that my buttons have 16 k ohms between the pins when depressed and 0 when pressed . are these buttons suppose to have 16k ohms when depressed . seems like it should be infinite like any normal switch . both of my buttons do this ?? I tested the ohms from switches to resistors and then to arduino pins but because of the 15k switches when not pressed the numbers are just messed up . 

I get continuity between the too buttons but when the arduino wasn't there I was getting continuity from the arduino vcc to the two buttons ? so I placed a temporary jumper but that did nothing ? 


before I continu debugging these switches ... is 16 k ohm between an open ( not pressed green or red button ) not normal or normal ??


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> Tom - there is a special piece of code in the firmware to prevent this:
> ---around line ~1290--------
> // use small hysteresis (spread*2) to avoid jitter
> // if current or voltage too LOW, INcrease duty cycle
> ...


 Observed CC/CV transition again, at ~40A output current. This time CC ended, "Type 2..." displayed for several seconds, then "Charging complete..." displayed, did not display the normal charging screen at all. CC ended immediately when the output voltage reached 126V (= 36*3.5). Output voltage was rising very slowly at that point - when I arrived it was 125V, and took about 4 minutes to get to 126V.

The only thing different in the above V12 firmware from the V11 is the conditional to end the CV step if it goes too long [|| (millis()-timer_step)/60000>CV_timeout)], which is not an issue, so seems to be no advantage to go to V12 in this regard. I downloaded V12 anyway and tried to compile it. Got two errors:
‘class uLCD_144’ has no member named ‘isAlive’
MemoryFree.h: No such file or directory

- Despite downloading the MemoryFree.h folder into my Arduino libraries folder where uLCD_144 and timer1 folders are located.


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

crackerjackz said:


> finished building the charger . started low voltage testing . screen loads ect asks for vcc ect ... green button works fine from what I think It does ... select bascally . but the red button doesn't do anything ? I toke out the arduino because voltage testing gave nothing but a 5 volt difference at all times between vcc and pins d2 and d3 which are the button arduino inputs .
> 
> That would be expected as the d2 and d3 pins are pulled low by the 10K resistors R40 and R41.
> 
> ...


respectfully,
John


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I seem to remember an issue with these buttons needing to be oriented properly. See if they work when rotated 90 degrees.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> finished building the charger . started low voltage testing . screen loads ect asks for vcc ect ... green button works fine from what I think It does ... select bascally . but the red button doesn't do anything ? I toke out the arduino because voltage testing gave nothing but a 5 volt difference at all times between vcc and pins d2 and d3 which are the button arduino inputs .
> 
> I notice that my buttons have 16 k ohms between the pins when depressed and 0 when pressed . are these buttons suppose to have 16k ohms when depressed . seems like it should be infinite like any normal switch . both of my buttons do this ?? I tested the ohms from switches to resistors and then to arduino pins but because of the 15k switches when not pressed the numbers are just messed up .
> 
> ...


sounds like you are measuring in-circuit. so the readings don't really correspond to the button resistance. so you are saying d2 and d3 voltage is always zero (with respect to Ground)? But the green button works?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I seem to remember an issue with these buttons needing to be oriented properly. See if they work when rotated 90 degrees.


GOOD tip, Paul! I forgot about that already ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> I received my low profile diode bridge last night so i can finally finish the power connections tonight . I looked at the data sheets but dont find which is anode or cathode ? I know the diode screws have to be doubled the emw instructions show this pretty well . But which side is anode and which cathode i dont ser any referance on the part or data sherts ? Or it has no importance ?
> 
> As always help appreciated thank you ..,.
> 
> As for the control board and driver board the +5 volts is mentioned in the non pfc kit nothing about pwm wires though ? Just a pfc connection maybe ?


datasheet for diode should have the anode/cathode markings. Anyway, check this out: http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/DSEI2x101-06A.pdf

control board and driver board should have one 4-wire connection (+12, PWM, Gnd, +5) and one 3-wire connection (Gnd, V, mV)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Observed CC/CV transition again, at ~40A output current. This time CC ended, "Type 2..." displayed for several seconds, then "Charging complete..." displayed, did not display the normal charging screen at all. CC ended immediately when the output voltage reached 126V (= 36*3.5). Output voltage was rising very slowly at that point - when I arrived it was 125V, and took about 4 minutes to get to 126V.
> 
> The only thing different in the above V12 firmware from the V11 is the conditional to end the CV step if it goes too long [|| (millis()-timer_step)/60000>CV_timeout)], which is not an issue, so seems to be no advantage to go to V12 in this regard. I downloaded V12 anyway and tried to compile it. Got two errors:
> ‘class uLCD_144’ has no member named ‘isAlive’
> ...


please also reinstall uLCD library from the same zipfile as you used for V12 firmware. 

the isAlive function was added so that the firmware can detect presence of the LCD. This was needed in order to switch between manual control (LCD, buttons) and fully automated serial control.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

finally discovered how to see the different layers on the pcb files  helps a lot in debugging lol ... my buttons are well orientated . 

as for the vcc not making sense there are two vcc on the arduinos which I just discovered . im guessing a vcc in and out ? anyway when I follow the pcb drawings all is ok with everything . I get continuity 0 ohm from the vcc ( out ) to pins d2 and d3 . what im thinking is my damn arduino is gonna be a pain in the ass since I had to unweld and reweld it . I think it didn't like the experience just as much as I did . im ordering a new one right know even if the welds work when reheated I don't want to wait any longer when I find other problems with the arduino ... my welds have a hard time sinking into the arduino board since it was heated so much  ...

ordered two arduinos ill have a spare lol 

its confirmed my arduino pins for d2 ( red button ) don't make it into the arduino circuit. the welding and unwelding and rewelding is propably the culprit but in the end reason doesn't matter ill have to wait for the new ones to arrive to start the startup sequence. I verified to make sure that my pcb board was not also damaged for the same reason and from what I can tell all is ok. I toke a female arduino pin and tested continuity to a farther resistor or pin for each connection and all seemed good  ...


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Valery; Julia sent me my uLCD 144 G2 I got it in two days.... thank her for me! Now I'm looking to add it to my EMW SmartCharger 10000 sketch (circa January 2011).

I think I'm in a world of trouble as I've recently read on this site that you had to go to great lengths to add the G2 to the current charger version. Any advice as to how I can shoehorn the G2 into my older model charger sketch? Anyone else have any ideas?
Thanks,
Dan Mills aka 2010Ranger
[email protected]


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> Hi Valery; Julia sent me my uLCD 144 G2 I got it in two days.... thank her for me! Now I'm looking to add it to my EMW SmartCharger 10000 sketch (circa January 2011).
> 
> I think I'm in a world of trouble as I've recently read on this site that you had to go to great lengths to add the G2 to the current charger version. Any advice as to how I can shoehorn the G2 into my older model charger sketch? Anyone else have any ideas?
> Thanks,
> ...


Hi Dan - it might be simple actually. If you just add our uLCD_SPE library to your Arduino libraries folder and change your #includes to use that instead of uLCD library, you could make it work. 

Once you make it compile and show text on screen, you will have to go through all printouts in the code and insert line breaks - because in their infinite wisdom 4D guys have decided to break backward compatibility by removing line wrapping altogether. 

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks!
Valery


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Another J1772 issue*

I've used the EMW with several different EVSE's now. Two worked fine. One (on two separate occasions) posted a fault twice before working. 

One that was recently installed would only let me draw about 8A AC. I've tried it on two separate occasions and both times charger output current ramps up to 14A DC and stays there, corresponding to around 8A AC input current for my pack voltage.

I contacted the city engineer who was project manager for the installation and he said it should put out 30A. He also checked records and verified the EVSE had put out higher current to other vehicles, but mine charged at much lower power.

Looking at the EMW code I don't see any reason for this other than the square wave duty cycle being less than 150 usec, but that wouldn't seem to be the issue if other vehicles are charging at higher power.

Any ideas?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



tomofreno said:


> One that was recently installed would only let me draw about 8A AC. I've tried it on two separate occasions and both times charger output current ramps up to 14A DC and stays there, corresponding to around 8A AC input current for my pack voltage.
> 
> I contacted the city engineer who was project manager for the installation and he said it should put out 30A. He also checked records and verified the EVSE had put out higher current to other vehicles, but mine charged at much lower power.
> 
> Looking at the EMW code I don't see any reason for this other than the square wave duty cycle being less than 150 usec, but that wouldn't seem to be the issue if other vehicles are charging at higher power.


The EVSE tells the charger what current it is allowed to draw. It is up to the charger to pull the correct current. I would say the charger is not interpreting the EVSE correctly in this case. Pulling less than the EVSE tells the charger is ok. Pulling more tends to pop the breaker.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



dougingraham said:


> The EVSE tells the charger what current it is allowed to draw. It is up to the charger to pull the correct current. I would say the charger is not interpreting the EVSE correctly in this case. Pulling less than the EVSE tells the charger is ok. Pulling more tends to pop the breaker.


 The question is why it works with the other EVSE's and not this one. Why does it just misinterpret this one since they are all supposed to be putting out a 1kHz square wave? And how does it misinterpret it? It is just measuring the duty cycle and calculating permitted max output power based on that:


_J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);_
_ if(J1772_dur>50) { // noise control. also, deals with the case when no J1772 signal present at all_
_ absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6A input_


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



tomofreno said:


> The question is why it works with the other EVSE's and not this one. Why does it just misinterpret this one since they are all supposed to be putting out a 1kHz square wave? And how does it misinterpret it? It is just measuring the duty cycle and calculating permitted max output power based on that:
> 
> 
> _J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);_
> ...


this is indeed strange, Tom. I imagine it would probably be too much to ask to hook up the scope to the signal while it's plugged into that EVSE?

Also, one other idea is that *maybe* the charger thinks it's connected to 120V supply with that other EVSE? Sometimes, commercial 208V supply can drop below 200V if heavily loaded. The charger's threshold for 120V switch is midpoint between 120 and 240, or 180V. So a significantly sagged 208 could get close to that. Esp considering that mains voltage measurement is not calibrated. 

What does the charger show on the screen when plugged in to that EVSE? In the second timeout (the 10-second one), it should show input voltage. What does that say? What is that usually saying when you plug into a known 240V source?

V


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



valerun said:


> this is indeed strange, Tom. I imagine it would probably be too much to ask to hook up the scope to the signal while it's plugged into that EVSE?
> 
> Also, one other idea is that *maybe* the charger thinks it's connected to 120V supply with that other EVSE? Sometimes, commercial 208V supply can drop below 200V if heavily loaded. The charger's threshold for 120V switch is midpoint between 120 and 240, or 180V. So a significantly sagged 208 could get close to that. Esp considering that mains voltage measurement is not calibrated.
> 
> ...


 I hadn't thought about the charger thinking it is connected to 120VAC, that's a good one! I was thinking the decision point for 120/240VAC was lower than 180V, and that the EVSE was 240VAC. The PC817 usually reads the mains voltage low by around 15 - 20% - I've seen readings from 193V to 205V for actual mains V of 239V to 246V (you really should change the hardware for this measurement if you do another driver board rev, a current measurement like you mentioned would be nice, but accurate V like the earlier rev boards had would fine too). If the voltage at that EVSE is around 208 then 0.85*208 = 176.8V, below the 180V threshold. Also, 220VAC*0.8 = 176V. Seems like a good chance that is what is happening. I didn't look at the input voltage on the display at startup, so I'll try it again. Think I'll lower the decision point from 180V to 150V (edit: was thinking rms, I set it to 163V, since the PC817 readings are low) before I re-test, since the EVSE is 30 miles away so not convenient to do a sequence of testing.

I did think about taking a diode/resistor to connect across the pilot and gnd pins to check the duty cycle with my scope. But the fact that it delivered more power to other cars makes me think the duty cycle is likely ok.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



dougingraham said:


> ...Pulling more tends to pop the breaker.


 On older EVSEs and ones without communcations, yes. The newer ones I've used interrupt with a relay and throw a fault for too much power permitting you to try again. You can then just interrupt the EMW when restarting it (before it starts charging), select Configure Power, and set it to a lower value.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



valerun said:


> ...Also, one other idea is that *maybe* the charger thinks it's connected to 120V supply with that other EVSE? Sometimes, commercial 208V supply can drop below 200V if heavily loaded. The charger's threshold for 120V switch is midpoint between 120 and 240, or 180V. So a significantly sagged 208 could get close to that. Esp considering that mains voltage measurement is not calibrated.
> V


 I got a chance to test this today and that was it! The EKM meter measured 207VAC, and Vin on the EMW display was 179V, just under the 180V decision point. The EVSE is in a Community Center parking lot with public indoor pool, exercise facility, and library, all of which were closed today. The other times I tried it the facilities were crowded, so likely the voltage was lower due to greater load. Because I had lowered the decision voltage to 163V I was able to charge at 6.5kW, which is about all you can get at 207V/32A. I think I'll set it to 170V now. 

I never considered this since all the EVSEs I've used have been 240V, including one at the power company office and substation just 1/2 mile from this EVSE. This one is nice because of the nearby facilities.
Thanks!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Another J1772 issue*



tomofreno said:


> I got a chance to test this today and that was it! The EKM meter measured 207VAC, and Vin on the EMW display was 179V, just under the 180V decision point. The EVSE is in a Community Center parking lot with public indoor pool, exercise facility, and library, all of which were closed today. The other times I tried it the facilities were crowded, so likely the voltage was lower due to greater load. Because I had lowered the decision voltage to 163V I was able to charge at 6.5kW, which is about all you can get at 207V/32A. I think I'll set it to 170V now.
> 
> I never considered this since all the EVSEs I've used have been 240V, including one at the power company office and substation just 1/2 mile from this EVSE. This one is nice because of the nearby facilities.
> Thanks!


Awesome!

Actually, after thinking about this a bit more, I think the right fix should be ignoring input voltage altogether when J1772 signal is detected - the EVSE should know better in this case!

Will make the change in next rev of firmware.

Thanks for pushing - 
Valery


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It should be possible to adjust the resistors on either side of the optocoupler to get a reasonable voltage reading. Perhaps a trimpot to calibrate it. It will probably vary considerably with time and temperature but should stay close enough to determine 120 vs 240 nominal. Most of the variation is probably the tolerance of the transfer ratio of the optocoupler.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just thought I'd post a quick update on my version of this charger. Its a liquid cooled version with the EMW control system and my own power electronics. Installed in my E36 conversion in Nov 2011 it has ran flawlessly. Never once failed to charge and never once failed to terminate properly.When moving house in summer of 2012 it sometimes ran six times a day in 25c ambient with direct sunlight on a black car seven days a week!

Am now looking at the new control board from Valery with my own power stage again but this time with pfc on the single phase input and direct rectified 400vac three phase for fast charging. Will post videos and updates once the build is underway.


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Heads Up on a good deal.... it ends Feb 10th 

Leviton just wanted to say thank you for your recent order from our e-Store (-http://store.leviton dot com). 
Please use the code "CHAMPS25" and save 25% (Richard Sherman’s number) on all of your orders this week from the e-Store to help celebrate the Seattle Seahawks Superbowl win!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> Heads Up on a good deal.... it ends Feb 10th
> 
> Leviton just wanted to say thank you for your recent order from our e-Store (-http://store.leviton dot com).
> Please use the code "CHAMPS25" and save 25% (Richard Sherman’s number) on all of your orders this week from the e-Store to help celebrate the Seattle Seahawks Superbowl win!


nice! thanks for sharing!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> It should be possible to adjust the resistors on either side of the optocoupler to get a reasonable voltage reading. Perhaps a trimpot to calibrate it. It will probably vary considerably with time and temperature but should stay close enough to determine 120 vs 240 nominal. Most of the variation is probably the tolerance of the transfer ratio of the optocoupler.


absolutely correct, Paul. CTR on those things is not very tightly controlled. Therefore, the kits would require calibration in some cases. We are writing up the procedure now in the manual.

By the way, the PFC build manual has been moved from MSWord to Google Docs and is now posted online at https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...N-GHv85InmnCtq7k5OKz6l6RijqqVGUo3uvpSM2k/edit

By going to Google Docs, we will dramatically reduce the latency of edits to the manual as now all our techs can update the manual at the same time without any version control issues. 

Also, any of you can comment on sections of that document - right in the document! We will use those comments to perfect the manual as we go.

Next, we will post the non-PFC build manual there, as well. 

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Just thought I'd post a quick update on my version of this charger. Its a liquid cooled version with the EMW control system and my own power electronics. Installed in my E36 conversion in Nov 2011 it has ran flawlessly. Never once failed to charge and never once failed to terminate properly.When moving house in summer of 2012 it sometimes ran six times a day in 25c ambient with direct sunlight on a black car seven days a week!
> 
> Am now looking at the new control board from Valery with my own power stage again but this time with pfc on the single phase input and direct rectified 400vac three phase for fast charging. Will post videos and updates once the build is underway.


Thank you for your report! You will find the new version even easier to build and new firmware more capable than the one from 2011.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm not so concerned with calibration as with variability over wide temperature range with change of seasons. I just added a factor into the J1772 power equation to compensate for the underestimation of voltage. If variability is low that will work fine, if not, it will be a pain to try and keep the max calculated power near the limit I can use.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> absolutely correct, Paul. CTR on those things is not very tightly controlled. Therefore, the kits would require calibration in some cases. We are writing up the procedure now in the manual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I very much like this idea valery !! And although my build is almost complete i WILL push to help better the non pfc documents since they are truly lacking . Ill help were i can


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## McRat (Jul 10, 2012)

Newbie question.

Will this charge a Chevy Volt battery pack without it being in the car?

ie - Is this a standalone DC LiPo high voltage (360vdc nominal, 400vdc charge voltage) charger?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

McRat said:


> Newbie question.
> 
> Will this charge a Chevy Volt battery pack without it being in the car?
> 
> ie - Is this a standalone DC LiPo high voltage (360vdc nominal, 400vdc charge voltage) charger?


Yes it will (assuming you have a direct access to the energized pack terminals).


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## araizis (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi Valery,

A friend is helping me build up 2 EMW Battery Charger kits version 9.2 with PFC sent to New Zealand. Is this the best place to contact you? Questions below. Thanks for your help, Tony

Some questions about the IGBT “Driver Board” :-

·One of the driver PCBs has “C14” and the other has “C16” in the same position (there’s no C16 in the BOM) – Are they the same revision and do I just treat “C16” like “C14” ?

·For C14 you have P5178-ND as the DigiKey part # but that is a polarised aluminium capacitor in a can package, the PCB markings and the capacitor on your YouTube video shows a small (ceramic ?) type ! – What is the correct type / part # ?

·C34, C36, C35, C37, R16, R18, R19 and R21 all have values specified between an upper and lower limit on the BOM – Where is the information on how we select the correct values required ?

·R5 and R6 you have listed DigiKey # PF1262-5.000-ND and TR20JBD10R0-ND, but these are TO-126 and TO-220 thick film 20W packages not the “wire wound” 3W ones on your video – What is the correct DigiKey part # ?


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

OK, coming at it again. PFC, air cooled, V12 control board, V13 Driver board. I got a new 12V 4A power supply and the fans and controls work on the 12V supply. 

I went on with the Limited test of Power stage. Used a 36V Lithium battery pack, no sizzles pops or hisses. Input voltage on IGBT read 35V which I expect is from diode drops in the bridge rectifier. 0 input current and 0 output voltage with dummy lamp load.

Moved on to the 120V test, no sizzles pops or hisses again. Check of PFC stage FAIL! only 165V on IGBT C1 and E2.

Set input and output powers to 10A, looked at displayed voltage on screen 356V??

Charger went into run mode and lamps did ramp up so I checked the output voltage and it was at 100V. It then went back down, went into stage 2 and ramped the lamps up again. Ramped down and said charge complete.

Is the PFC stage controlled by the Arduino percieved input voltage and possibly being held down by the 356 volt reading? I went back to the A7520 where I was missing the voltage reading when the +5V supply jumper was omitted and got the following readings.
pin 1 to pin 3or4 4.97V
pin 2 to pin 3or4 -.191V
pin 8 to pin 5 5.0V
pin 7 to pin 5 .646V

Where do I go next? The build notes just say debug. Is there a written debug procedure? I tried going back to last summers posts and started reading them to see if there were any clues but I haven't caught them if they were there. I havn't made it all the way up to current on this pass of reading but thought I would ask to see if there are some pointers available.

respectfully,
John


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Was able to get back to have another look this evening and tried checking the other things on the driver board. I powered up just the 12V supply and started checking the low voltage things again. I checked the +&- 15V coming out of both DC-DC modules and those readings are at +&- 15V. I also checked the outputs of the 78L05 and 79L05 regulators and they have the proper output voltages as well. I took the board out and checked the solder joints and verified all of the resistors with a magnifying head piece. I know I sorted them with a meter when I began since some of them had extra color bands. I checked any that I had a question on with a meter again and they checked out even in circuit.

On the schematic I see some signal coming into the IR1153S through R16 labeled I_sense. The other end is labeled Isn+ and I think on the circuit board it is labeled IsS. What kind of signal should I see coming in on this wire? Should I be looking with a scope or just a volt meter? Will it be referenced to IsG or Isn-?

respectfully,
John


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

araizis said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> A friend is helping me build up 2 EMW Battery Charger kits version 9.2 with PFC sent to New Zealand. Is this the best place to contact you? Questions below. Thanks for your help, Tony
> 
> ...


Apologies for the delay (some unexpected travel):

1. yes, C14 can be marked as C16 (see page 31 in the manual - https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...N-GHv85InmnCtq7k5OKz6l6RijqqVGUo3uvpSM2k/edit)

2. C14 should be a ceramic 3.3uF cap (in fact, value doesn't matter much and can be anything between 0.1uF and 4.7uF for battery charging application - since the voltage never changes rapidly when battery is connected)

3. Any value between stated lower and upper limits will work

4. WND10RFETCT-ND is a good choice for non-inductive wirewound resistors

Which BOM version are you referring to? I want to make sure we clean these up. 

Thanks,
valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> Was able to get back to have another look this evening and tried checking the other things on the driver board. I powered up just the 12V supply and started checking the low voltage things again. I checked the +&- 15V coming out of both DC-DC modules and those readings are at +&- 15V. I also checked the outputs of the 78L05 and 79L05 regulators and they have the proper output voltages as well. I took the board out and checked the solder joints and verified all of the resistors with a magnifying head piece. I know I sorted them with a meter when I began since some of them had extra color bands. I checked any that I had a question on with a meter again and they checked out even in circuit.
> 
> On the schematic I see some signal coming into the IR1153S through R16 labeled I_sense. The other end is labeled Isn+ and I think on the circuit board it is labeled IsS. What kind of signal should I see coming in on this wire? Should I be looking with a scope or just a volt meter? Will it be referenced to IsG or Isn-?
> 
> ...


Hi John - sorry for the delay. 

There are several 'lockout' functions in IR1153 that might be disabling it in your case. 

First thing I would do is to check voltage on R12-C32-pin4 (of IR1153) junction. You need to measure while 110VAC is on (so pls be careful). The voltage should be above 1V. 

Second, I would check voltage on R7-R14-C33-pin5/6 junction (again, while 110V is on). It should be above 1V.

Third, make sure your IsS and IsG are connected properly to the corresponding pads on the power board. 

Let us know how this turns out. 

Re 356V input voltage reading - looks like you will need to do a bit of calibration of the input voltage measurement circuit. I will explain how when we get there.

thanks,
valery


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Silly me, I neglected to install the diode shown on the schematic as D2 600V rectifier. I don't find it in the BOM or the Build Notes but there was a 1N4005 in the kit. Checked online and its a 600V unit. Soldered it in and my IGBT voltage check is now showing 372V and the display is reading 294. This is while plugged into a 120VAC cord.

I'm working on PFC air cooled V12&13 unit and intend to ultimately use it on a 72V pack. I currently have a 36V pack of lithiums for another project that I thought I would use to get the charger finished and tested. The 36V pack is 11 cells at 60AH.

I moved on to pg60 in the build notes, Check PFC Operation step ix. I went back and set parameters for 30 cells and 100AH per the instructions and let it go into run mode with two 100W lamps in series on the output. It goes into stage 1, the lamps ramp up quickly to some level then right back down to off. The screen says step complete, pauses, and then moves on to stage 2 and does the same thing again before throwing up a charge complete message. This all happens about as fast you can read this, I know it is faster than I can type it. I tried to take a video with my phone but it isn't very good and I won't be able to pull it out until I get back to my office late tonight.

I remember this problem being discussed late last fall but I don't remember the cure.
I started back at msg 1650 and read forward to the end without finding it so it must be farther back than that.

respectfully,
John


----------



## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, another one bites the dust. 

After locating and installing the missing D2 I ran into the quick on quick off problem I mentioned above. Here is a video in MP4 format at http://www.indele.com/Run1.MP4 in the lower right corner the glow from the lights can be seen when it comes up both times.

While researching the older posts I ran into #1579 where it is mentioned that the firmware needs to be setup to un-comment #define PC817 in V13 so I looked and it was still commented out in my file. I changed that, re-compiled, and downloaded to the Arduino. Only missed one step, I did not go back and re-calibrate. The reported AC had gone from 356V down to 294V with the diode and with the #define PC817 in the sketch it dropped to 120V. 

As shown in this clip: http://www.indele.com/Run3.MP4 it ran through the first stage but during the second stage I heard the dreaded "pop" and the lamps went on full bright. I was trying to get a voltmeter on the output to see what it would read but saw a small puff of the magic smoke and the display looked like the 12V supply had shut down momentarily and then came back on. That is when I hit the circuit breaker to kill the AC input.

The output IGBT now reads 0 ohms in several directions and the DC-DC unit at U4 has visual evidence of a bad smoking habit. I think I remember a post some ways back (you'd think I could remember since I have been going back looking so much the last few days) that mentioned a third part that usually went in the package fail. Probably U7, one of the the A3120s.

Is it likely that a firmware error would be able to take out the IGBT or must there be some other physical fault? There was another run after the PC817 line was modified and before the pop that had acted like the first run. I had just pulled back for run3 to get the lamps into the picture.

Hopefully EMW can send me an email with the costs to replace these parts.

I know the videos are really bad, it is a flip phone and my first try at using it for video.

respectfully,
John


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Valery... I read from your build notes that 

_"Design notes:
The original charger design was created early 2011 and was the basis for our kits up until May 2012. Information on that design is still available from Electric Motor Werks on request. "
_
Would you please point me to the "pre May 2011" information link? 

I have 2 of the original boards and admittedly am behind the curve, but at the same time I'm determined to finish. 








I've combined several of your versions in this build. I have the three fan enclosure and installed a 240vac to 12vdc power supply underside of the top.

I've assembled the driver and control boards and have the uLCD_114G2 working. I modified the sketch (charger_2011_07_21_V06) by substituting the uLCD_144_SPE.h as you suggested in a previous post. 

I just needed to comment out two lines 
// myLCD->setBgColor(0, 0, 0); 
// myLCD->setContrast(0x0f);

But I still need to figure out why the text doesn't wrap on the uLCD_114G2, in the following line....

case STATE_BT:
myLCD->printStr(0, 0, 2, 0, 0x3f, 0x00, "Thank you for choosing EMW Charger! Press any button to configure"); 
// if config is not forced, just timeout and send to end of config. Else, wait until button press
if(forceConfig==0) {
forceConfig=BtnTimeout(5, 5); // -1 if no button pressed; 1 otherwise..... 

Do I need to install the 4D Systems Goldelox library?

Also when I power up the control board the sketch blows right by the above and stops at the end of the next _if, else statement_

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

John N said:


> Well, another one bites the dust.
> 
> After locating and installing the missing D2 I ran into the quick on quick off problem I mentioned above. Here is a video in MP4 format at http://www.indele.com/Run1.MP4 in the lower right corner the glow from the lights can be seen when it comes up both times.
> 
> ...


 
ok so what do we do with #define PC817 comment or uncomment with version 13 ?? 

since no version of the instructions esist for a non-pfc version 13 what am I to do ? I just received my new arduinos so im hoping to start the startsequenses tonight  ....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Hello .  ok so I started troubleshooting the instructions again to get this thing finally finished once and for all . my new arduino is configured and my buttons now all work  . 

I put the 350 volt on screen 
then the 30 cells 
then it asks for capacity ... not mentioned in instrcutions ? so I put 20 for guessing sake . 

then it skipped shorting output ect ... so im assumingmy 7520 chip configuration in the program is wrong ? 

#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)

in the arduino program the #define A7520_V part is dark and bigger . meaning commented from what I understand . so this shouldn't be my problem ?

know I toke the liberty of commenting meaning making bigger and darker . #define V12_nonPFC ( situated just over the main switches section) and uncommented meaning made smaller and less dark. #define V12_PFC .... shouldn't have or ok ? its not mentioned in the instructions ? 

that's it for tonight I have to go change a dead man switch on my gator if I want to be able to use it tomorrow morning and not have to use a damn wheelbarrow lol .


----------



## rukiwi (Jan 30, 2014)

*Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger - testing in Auckland*



araizis said:


> A friend is helping me build up 2 EMW Battery Charger kits version 9.2 with PFC sent to New Zealand.


G'day, araizis

- How is your progress with building that charger? Have you finished it? 
What are you planning to charge with it - what type of battery? 
Are you in Auckland so that we can test it?
- Do you know the best place to order just PCB in New Zealand or perhaps from overseas?

Valera, 
Would you send me just PCB?

Cheers,


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

crackerjackz said:


> Hello .  ok so I started troubleshooting the instructions again to get this thing finally finished once and for all . my new arduino is configured and my buttons now all work  .
> 
> I put the 350 volt on screen
> then the 30 cells
> ...


valery ? still waiting on a reply for this one ? ....

and this one 

#define PC817 comment or uncomment with version 13 ?? 

since no version of the instructions esist for a non-pfc version 13 what am I to do ?


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

12 kw non pfc build with v13 driver board and v12 control board 

there appears to be a jumper missing in the instructions . on the universal control board in the build photos there is a red wire from one side of the pcb to the other side . when I look at the pcb files it appears to bring 12 volts from one side of the board to the other as if the pcbs had a problem with them ? if I look at the pcb low copper layer this jumper should serve as nothing ? or am I missing something ? 

I sent the pictures to valery of the above as my tapatalk app is down for the forum ? 

I also sent him a screen shot of my arduino programmed switches to have him verify it .... hopefully .... as im getting a voltage sensing issue probrebly related to the programming. still waitng also on the 817 something right above this post .... ??? 

also there is a flaw in the instructions as I had no 12 volts on the driver board once the assembly was finished per the instructions . so what I did was put a a wire from the +12 and gnd pins on the driver board directy to the power supply in parallel with the control board power . I rechecked instructions and its seriously missing from what I can tell ...


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Gonna need help here valery .... Something must be wrong in my codeing ... 

On startup it asks for voltage ... I enter 350 . Then asks number of cells i enter 30 . Then it asks capacity i put in 20 . Then it says discharge output ( now at 1v) press btn ..., ????

I reverified my settings but as i mentioned above i have no clue what to fo because of v13 driver board do i comment out pc817 or not ? What do i do with # define a750_mv ?? ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Non pfc 12k as always . V13 driver board . V12 universal control board .


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

after two hours of fidgeting with the switches and trying tofigure it out by myself I give up before I blow something .... email sent to valery as is below ! 

you instructions state and I quote !!! 

​ 
 
MAIN SWITCHES -----------‘) 

i. Comment out ‘#define PFC’ 

ii. Uncomment ‘#define A7520_V’ if your driver board uses a 7520 chip for battery voltage sensing 

iii. You should normally have ‘#define OUTC_SENSOR Allegro_100U’ 

iv. If using a custom 100A output inductor, uncomment ‘#define MCC100A’ 

v. Make sure ‘#define PFCdirect’, ‘#define UV12’, ‘#define NiXX’, ‘#define buck_Ecore’, ‘#define A7520_mV’ are all COMMENTED OUT 

8. Upload the code to the charger 
 


from this ..... what do I do with #define V12_nonPFC do I leave commented or do I uncomment  for it to become functional ? might sound obvious to you . but its not ! and not in the instructions !!

iii . You should normally have ‘#define OUTC_SENSOR Allegro_100U’ what does that mean ? is it suppose to be commented or uncommented ? 


#define PC817 // mains voltage sensing based on a crude regular opto (V13 boards)
I have a v13 non pfc charger . what do I do with the pc817 line which specifically mentions the v13 board ? 

what do I do with 
#define A7520_mV // using A7520 optoisolation for mV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124) as I am doubting this should stay commented out ????? 



the fact that I get the message . discharge output ( now at 1v) press btn ? is this a programming error or something else ? obviously my programming isn't a sure thing since information is incomplete but this message instead of asking to short the output what does it signify to you ? 

as always help appreciated and needed thanks everyone .


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery .....


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

crackerjackz said:


> after two hours of fidgeting with the switches and trying tofigure it out by myself I give up before I blow something .... email sent to valery as is below !
> 
> you instructions state and I quote !!!
> 
> ...


I hope I haven't given you any misleading suggestions. These are just my thoughts. Take them for what their worth....


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Valery .....


Well i can see you didnt set 30 cells 20Ah, but 20 cells at 20Ah. Why? You should select correct values first.
From the start power ONLY your PSU so arduino can start. After you set calibration, then you connect 230VAC to input bridges, using light bulbs to limit current. 


Then as i see you have 1V residual voltage, probably in your caps or maybe just your sensing part is not calibrated yet.

1. disconnect battery
2. use a 10cm piece of 1,5mm2 insulated wire and make a half loop and stripp the ends
3. use this wire to short output connector of the charger. (do not short the battery side mind you  ). 

4. Now you should get a spark from this short and then your caps will be empty. 
5. Hold the wire on the out connectors while pressing LEFT button! This will invoke "calibrating" on screen and after couple of seconds you should get "connect battery" on screen. 
5. Do it and your screen should show correct voltage +/- 1V or so. 
6. Go forth if you see everything OK or.... contact Vallery if you see anything wrong. 

Up to this point this is only calibration. From here on you will start power cycle. Do not go further if all is not good!
Use 2x 60W incandesent light bulbs in paralel on the input line to limit current in hardware. I suggest you limit the "input" and "output" current (software) to 1A and lift the limit to 2A, 5A and 10A after you figure everything is fine.

good luck

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Well i can see you didnt set 30 cells 20Ah, but 20 cells at 20Ah. Why? You should select correct values first.
> From the start power ONLY your PSU so arduino can start. After you set calibration, then you connect 230VAC to input bridges, using light bulbs to limit current.
> 
> 
> ...


you made me doubt myself about having put in the right input numbers so I redid it to confirm jut before posting this . I input 350 volts , 30 cells , 20 ah capacity . as soon as I pres next the number moves over to the right but becomes a 20 instead of a 30 . ... why ?? no clue , maybe valery could explain ? as for the ah capacity I should input I have no clue as this is not in the instructions ....

im guessing what I have is a programming error ... if anyone has a 12kwatt non pfc charger with a v.13 driver board if it could be possible to send me your working program to my email [email protected] I could validate my program and stop thinking its the programming or not ... valery you could do this as well im sure .... 

as for my caps being energized . I have never yet hooked anything up , no battery no output no lamps ect ... all ive powered up is 12 volts to the driver board and control board . per the instructions . and since the charger does not ask me to short the output ive stopped there as the instructions precise to do .... 

any help appreciated ...


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> you made me doubt myself about having put in the right input numbers so I redid it to confirm jut before posting this . I input 350 volts , 30 cells , 20 ah capacity . as soon as I pres next the number moves over to the right but becomes a 20 instead of a 30 . ... why ?? no clue , maybe valery could explain ? as for the ah capacity I should input I have no clue as this is not in the instructions ....
> 
> im guessing what I have is a programming error ... if anyone has a 12kwatt non pfc charger with a v.13 driver board if it could be possible to send me your working program to my email [email protected] I could validate my program and stop thinking its the programming or not ... valery you could do this as well im sure ....
> 
> ...


Huh, that must be some error in software, since i dont see how hardware could influence selection. 
You should input Ah from your battery value. How much a single cell has in Ah? Or if you use paralel wiring, how much Ah is in each serial element.
Which code do you use? I use V12 software and it is a version before LCD change. 
Hm While talking about LCD, did you check if you set the LCD correct in your software? You should also read PFC instruction just to compare. NonPFC isnt very supported at this time.

A


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> Would you please point me to the "pre May 2011" information link?
> 
> But I still need to figure out why the text doesn't wrap on the uLCD_114G2, in the following line...


On the #1: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/

On the #2: for wrapping, you would need V12 firmware which has different text string setup for SPE


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I have no clue whats right and whats wrong in the program . I went with what i think since as you mentioned the instructions for the non pfc are shit ( you didnt say shit but i do ) emw should not sell another unit until the catch up there crappy instructions ... 

Whats right wrong for my version in the program ??? Only valery would know or someone with a complet functionning non pfc charger with v13 driver board . Once again anyone with one please do help and send me your working program ...


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks Val ....


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> Silly me, I neglected to install the diode shown on the schematic as D2 600V rectifier. I don't find it in the BOM or the Build Notes but there was a 1N4005 in the kit. Checked online and its a 600V unit. Soldered it in and my IGBT voltage check is now showing 372V and the display is reading 294. This is while plugged into a 120VAC cord.
> 
> I'm working on PFC air cooled V12&13 unit and intend to ultimately use it on a 72V pack. I currently have a 36V pack of lithiums for another project that I thought I would use to get the charger finished and tested. The 36V pack is 11 cells at 60AH.
> 
> ...


this is not a problem. it's normal behavior. voltage ramps up until it hits your predefined CV point (which is 105V for 30 cells at 3.5V CV per cell). When ity hits that value, charger declares step 1 complete. Then it ramps on step 2 and maintains CV while observing current. As the current on the lamps is going to be less than 0.05C for your 100AH setting, it will soon declare step 2 complete and will exit.


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey valery ... No answers to my problems ? ... Do you have a working non pfc charger with a v13 driver board ? If so it would be very simple to send me the finished working program . That way i could stop bitching and start testing . Id love to program it myself but you have no instructions .............................im not a c++ programmer although i do understand if and else conditions in your programming ... Help appreciated . Arber thanks for your program ill compare tonight but im starting to suspect functionability issues in the v13 driver board with a non pfc version that i would like to confirm with valerys working program .


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> Well, another one bites the dust.
> 
> After locating and installing the missing D2 I ran into the quick on quick off problem I mentioned above. Here is a video in MP4 format at http://www.indele.com/Run1.MP4 in the lower right corner the glow from the lights can be seen when it comes up both times.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear. #define PC817 cannot cause the failure you have experienced. Other parts of the firmware definitely can - any part that manipulates the PWM duty ramp. But since you did not change any of that, I would look for a physical problem somewhere. 

Assuming the parts you need are IGBT, A3120, DC-DC, the cost would be $100 plus shipping. 

Thanks,
Valery.


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber thanks again . I looked at your program for a while didn't see any difference to what I had pretty much figured for the settings . but I added my eeprom.h file to complete the package . when I try to compile it gives a ( case label not with switch limit ) error .... ? 

I tried by adding the pc817 switch and without it on . 

I also don't know what to do with ... 
#define A7520_mV // using A7520 optoisolation for mV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124

I had tried pretty much every option with my program  im hoping I can get someone to send me a version 13 non pfc program complete  ???


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok just tried the calibrating thing ... doesn't work . I shorted the outputs and pressed the red back button and it went into calibrating asking me to connect battery . it then said no batt or reversal press btn to ignore .... I had 50.1 volts of acids on it . polarity was good . 

its either the program or something is missing on the v13 driver board . If something is missing I wouldn't be surprised ... for the last time ... anyone with a working non pfc charger with version 13 driver board here is the great time to join the conversation  lol ... if I could get a picture of this darn finished driver board it would be great ... actually I have a picture of my finished driver board so someone could just verify it ... comes out to the same ... ill upload it just below this message with my tapatalk app  ...


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)




----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger - testing in Auckland*



rukiwi said:


> G'day, araizis
> 
> - How is your progress with building that charger? Have you finished it?
> What are you planning to charge with it - what type of battery?
> ...


Hi rukiwi - yes, you can just get the PCBs - I believe there is a corresponding product in our store: http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/category/listing/17-dc-charging-systems

Thanks,
valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> View attachment 18142
> View attachment 18143
> View attachment 18144


the board looks fine. Make sure your S1 and S2 are the right ones (one should be 78l05, another 79l05).

Your switches should have the following uncommented:
#define A7520_V
#define PC817

if you want to be super-sure, send me your code and I will post the switches section with the right ones for your unit.

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> 12 kw non pfc build with v13 driver board and v12 control board
> 
> there appears to be a jumper missing in the instructions . on the universal control board in the build photos there is a red wire from one side of the pcb to the other side . when I look at the pcb files it appears to bring 12 volts from one side of the board to the other as if the pcbs had a problem with them ? if I look at the pcb low copper layer this jumper should serve as nothing ? or am I missing something ?
> 
> ...


12V power is supplied from the AC adapter to driver board (via a dedicated 3-pin header), then it goes from driver board to control board (via 2 power pins on a 6-pin header on driver board). So if you got both of those connected, you will have 12v power on control board. 

Also, pls make sure your 5v pin on the same 6-pin driver board connector is connected to the corresponding 5v pin on the matching 6-pin control board connector 

Generally, for control / driver board connections and overall software debugging, you might find it useful to refer to the corresponding sections of the PFC manual at https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...N-GHv85InmnCtq7k5OKz6l6RijqqVGUo3uvpSM2k/edit

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> View attachment 18119
> 
> Gonna need help here valery .... Something must be wrong in my codeing ...
> 
> ...


comment out #define A7520_mV. Shoud be:
----------
// #define A7520_mV


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> after two hours of fidgeting with the switches and trying tofigure it out by myself I give up before I blow something .... email sent to valery as is below !
> 
> you instructions state and I quote !!!
> 
> ...


well, step 'v' in the quoted text above says that '#define A7520_mV' has to be commented out...

'discharge output' is a normal step in calibration. measure voltage first before discharging to avoid unpleasant surprises...


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> 12V power is supplied from the AC adapter to driver board (via a dedicated 3-pin header), then it goes from driver board to control board (via 2 power pins on a 6-pin header on driver board). So if you got both of those connected, you will have 12v power on control board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im guessing my problem is power then . Theres nothing in the build manual non pfc for it . Ill refer to the pfc tonight as you suggest . I hace 12 volts in parallel at the moment for both boards . I dont recall a 5 volt wire so ill be verifying it tonight . As for the switches im sure there fine from what you stated and what arber sent me . 

Thanks for replies . Ill confirm my s1 and s2 while im at it ...


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ok so I think all the wiring is complete and ok . I used the pfc verison and intergrated the non pfc into it ... the non pfc says to ignore the a and b in and outs on the driver and control boards but the non pfc says to hook them up which I did . also I connected the old out from the control board to the pwm in on the driver board as that's the only place I figured they would go ?? but nothing anywhere mentions these .... 

anyway charger starts up fine ... I enter 350 volts cv , 30 cells , 100 ah . ... then charger says discharge output(now at 0 v) press btn .

I verified only o.o5 volts 
I shorted the output and pressed the green button 

charger then says connect batt . btn to skip ... I connect my 4x 20 ah oddessey agm test batteries . (50.2 volts ) and press the green button 

it then says confirm 30 lifepo4 cells 
(yes) I press green button 

it says no batt or reversal btn to ignore .... I ignore by pressing green button 

charger says max input current . 

I put 10 

asks max out current 

I put 10 

asks charge 
I press the green button ...

charger duty goes from 0 to 95.7 % 

but the rest stays at 

out= 0.0A, 1 v

t=46C
ah=0.0ah
t=1min 

.... during the whole tests I had my fluke clamp meter on my battery cables and another fluke tester with leads on the battery pack 50.2 volts constent and 0.00 amps ... 

now when I restart the charger it asks me if I want to change parameters or run program ... 

10 max in 10 max out current and 1 volt .... ?? what to do is this normal or not lol ? it meantions in the instructions something about the charger not understanding the 30 cell count with only 50.2 volts connected ... what am I to do ? continue steps further ? debug ? if so what ? 
by the way is the temperature in farenheits or Celsius ? 46 ferenheit is 8 Celsius which would be a little low as im not cold lol but the wind is damn cold blowing though ...


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

By Joe I think you've done it Ollie....

Crackerjackz does the duty cycle ramp up? If not may be the batteries are already charged?

2010Ranger


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Yes duty cyle climbs rapidly from 0 to 95.7 % ... Batteries are charged yes . They are only to test the charger and its calibration but i cant seem to get the voltage sensing to work . So im hesitant to do anything else . Obviosly the charger shouldnt charge since the ac is only on the power supply ... But im guessing i should be able to read my battery voltage on the output which is i believe essential and the reason for the control testing .... ?


----------



## penguinapricot (Apr 19, 2010)

*open source design link to schematic PCB file and source code*

Hi,

Is there a link to the Schematics, source code and PCB file ?,
I did look around the website.

Thanks,


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

penguinapricot said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a link to the Schematics, source code and PCB file ?,
> I did look around the website.
> ...


http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

Its all in there depending what versions you want ect ...


----------



## penguinapricot (Apr 19, 2010)

*Schematics PDF*

Thanks for the link.

It looks good, but
Are there PDF's of the schematics, ?

I use DipTrace.
(I also have tried to open in DXP, I believe the schematics may be in latest version of Altium ?...viewing it requires signing up to Altium-club, and they start trying to call me with a sales rep)

Pdf's would be awesome.. 
?

Thanks again !


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The files are in ExpressPCB format. I converted some of them to PDF and offered them to Valery to put on the EMW website, but you can get them here:
http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/

They are version 12/13, not sure if PFC or non. You can get ExpressPCB free from their website:
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Download.htm


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

*Re: Schematics PDF*

You can open and print pcb files with ExpressPCB I use version 7.0.2

2010Ranger


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Yes duty cyle climbs rapidly from 0 to 95.7 % ... Batteries are charged yes . They are only to test the charger and its calibration but i cant seem to get the voltage sensing to work . So im hesitant to do anything else . Obviosly the charger shouldnt charge since the ac is only on the power supply ... But im guessing i should be able to read my battery voltage on the output which is i believe essential and the reason for the control testing .... ?


you are very close now!

yes you should be able to sense the battery voltage with just your 12V power supply getting AC power. 

Can you make sure your 5v line is connected between control and driver board? Not having that could explain 0V reading.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I am hard at modifying nonPFC charger to 600VDC input from 3phase bridge. Ive made a new 3000uF 800VDC input cap bank which should have larger energy capacity at 600VDC than original. Single phase i wont charge more than 3kW, so no problem there. Just on the IGBT i will mount 680uF 800V (2s2p)caps + 15uF 800V foil cap. To top it all i will put a snubber cap directly on + and - of IGBT contacts. This should take care of any switching noise.
There is one difficulty though... El. caps after toroid, lets call it output caps are still 400VDC with one 15uF foil cap also 400V. Should i worry about rating there? As i gather after IGBT and inductor the voltage there is actual output voltage ie. 144V, is it? Is there something i dont know?

My problem derives from my charger case. I dont have enough room to insert another 680uF 800V (2S2P)cap package and 800V film cap is a bit large. Please tell me what you think about current output stage, will it survive with 400VDC rating?
I need to know quick, because i have the car disassembled and i cannot drive to work now . I have to use the air stinker Honda Civic...

tnx

Arber


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Yes the +5 volt wire is present from the control board to driver board . Only unsure part is i connected the old out from the driver board to the pwm in on the control board ? Is this ok or not ? As for the 5volts i checked the s1 and s2 transistors and there were good according to your instructions in the past posts ... I will check tonight with my tester that the +5 volts is present and good everywhere ... Please confirm pwm in and old out go together or not ??? Thanks


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ok so started some official testing .... 

on the pcb17 sharp chip I have 5.0 volts dc between pins 4 and 3 . 4 being positive and 3 being negative ... http://www.futurlec.com/LED/PC817.shtml

on the a7520 chip I have 5.0 volts dc between pins 5 and 8 . 8 being positive and 5 being negative. I also have 5.0 volts betwwen pins 1 and 4 .
http://people.ece.cornell.edu/land/...am584/HCPL-7520-300E-Avago-datasheet-7803.pdf

from what I can tell that's perfectly fine ... know I started the charger got it into voltage sensing and connected the battery .... 0 volts . I checked at the pc817 chip nothing on pins 2 and 3 which are the voltage sensing pins ... so that got me to realizing that even with the 50.2 volt battery connected I don't have 50.2 volts from the b+ on the power board and middle of igbt - pin .... but I do have 50.2 volts when I move my positive prong to before the diode bridge ... im guessing either my diode bridge is upside down or its normal for the voltage not to go back in by that direction and its well placed ? 


http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/Datasheets-16/DSA-302723.pdf
it is currently placed with the slotted side at the B+ of the power board meaning according to the build photos of the non pfc the anode goes to the B+ of the power board ... so this would be suppose to be ok ? therefore if I want to sense voltage I need to be before the diode bridge with my vout wire ? my vout wire is presently welded to the powerboard in a vout hole next to the B+ terminal ... honestly know its late im confused so I might not be making sense ... please help  ... 

my power board B+ positive is on this side of the bridge -> and the battery + is on this side ... in picture form of an anode cathode lol 

if my diode bridge is placed correctly I just don't get how im suppose to sense voltage ?? unless my sensing wire needs to go on the battery side before the diode bridge ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Picture as is on my charger . The slotted side is the visible side going to the b+ of power board


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

crackerjackz you are correct that the Vout sense lead from the driver board needs to go on the battery side of the output diode. It is described on page 30 of the non-pfc build notes section ii step 4. You must be careful, there are several signals labeled Vout or v out on the schematics.

respectfully
John


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

John N said:


> crackerjackz you are correct that the Vout sense lead from the driver board needs to go on the battery side of the output diode. It is described on page 30 of the non-pfc build notes section ii step 4. You must be careful, there are several signals labeled Vout or v out on the schematics.
> 
> respectfully
> John



4. Solder Vout wire to the cathode of output diode (or, if using output relay, to the
output pin of the relay). This will be used to sense output voltage Here’s how the board should look after you are done:

Oh damn .... Your right and it is very clearly written too ... My first problem caused by me lol ... I had jumped to conclusions when i had seen vout on the driverboard and since i didnt have the right diode when i built the rest i think i just figured thats were it went ... 

Thanks for reply  tonight i just might be able to finish troubleshooting  if so that would kick ass i could go for csa approuval next week ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> 4. Solder Vout wire to the cathode of output diode (or, if using output relay, to the
> output pin of the relay). This will be used to sense output voltage Here’s how the board should look after you are done:
> 
> Oh damn .... Your right and it is very clearly written too ... My first problem caused by me lol ... I had jumped to conclusions when i had seen vout on the driverboard and since i didnt have the right diode when i built the rest i think i just figured thats were it went ...
> ...


Awesome. 

Pls start powered testing as described in the manual - first with battery or 110V used as source and lamps used as load. Only then proceed to battery as load. The reason is that battery is a very 'stiff' load and if you have some malfunction in your PWM drive circuit / logic and IGBT turns full on, the current from AC supply into battery can get very large and blow up your IGBT.

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I am hard at modifying nonPFC charger to 600VDC input from 3phase bridge. Ive made a new 3000uF 800VDC input cap bank which should have larger energy capacity at 600VDC than original. Single phase i wont charge more than 3kW, so no problem there. Just on the IGBT i will mount 680uF 800V (2s2p)caps + 15uF 800V foil cap. To top it all i will put a snubber cap directly on + and - of IGBT contacts. This should take care of any switching noise.
> There is one difficulty though... El. caps after toroid, lets call it output caps are still 400VDC with one 15uF foil cap also 400V. Should i worry about rating there? As i gather after IGBT and inductor the voltage there is actual output voltage ie. 144V, is it? Is there something i dont know?
> ...


Hi Arber - 

Yes, we got to get you out of the stinker and back into the clean car ;-)

You are right that the output voltage is just 144V (equal to your battery voltage when battery is connected. So if your battery is always connected to the output of the charger, you are safe to use 400V caps on the output. 

The danger comes in when your output is not connected and you power up your charger from 600V supply. Since there is nothing preventing the output to rise beyond 400V cap rating, you run a danger of that ruining your day...

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Valery.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I intend to follow instructions perfectly but thanks for the heads up . I read somewhere that the lamp loads had to be 60 watt lamps is this true or will 100 watt bulbs do as well ? Didnt see anything about that in the manuals but someone said it on this forum a couple pages back ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> You are right that the output voltage is just 144V (equal to your battery voltage when battery is connected. So if your battery is always connected to the output of the charger, you are safe to use 400V caps on the output.
> 
> The danger comes in when your output is not connected and you power up your charger from 600V supply. Since there is nothing preventing the output to rise beyond 400V cap rating, you run a danger of that ruining your day...


Well i get it, but how am i suppose to calibrate output? Hm Would it be ok if i simply connect to 230VAC single phase just for that purpose and then run 400VAC majority time?

I also use a diode on + output, so this is connected to battery allways. Diode is 1200V element!

Of course charger will be fully capable to charge at 230VAC, i will just have to connect different cable in following order: R(L1) S(N) T(N/A) N(N) Gnd(Gnd)
S and N have to be shorted (in single phase cable) in order to get 230VAC to 12V PSU and Fan! In 400VAC setup i will have R S T N Gnd with R and N supplying 230VAC to PSU. Sounds logical?

TNX

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Started testing the power circuits . everything started well but know as soon as I plug in the charger theres a 300 volt output which I would guess means the igbt is full on ? ... anyway ill explain ...

did the low power sensing circuit testing . shorted output then connected battery (50.2 volt acid test batteries ) . charger read 49 . I modified to 050 . then watch duty cycle go from 0 to 95.7% .... all was fine 

. connected my 50.2 volt battery system to the ac 240 volt inputs of the charger ( didn't know if I should put on the 120 or 240 decided it would be safest on the 240 volt inputs ) manual just says to connect battery to ac input of the charger . anyway got a little spark there when the caps filled up ect ... waited then tested 49.2 at the two lowest igbt bolts . I still have 50.2 at the battery eaning 1 volt difference ... decided that was fine ... 

then the manual states to connect the 120 volt ac line to the 240 volt ac inputs . did this and got the charger to start but weirdly the duty cycle would ramp up to 19 % then change stage then ramp up to 19% then .... finished ... 

anyway I then maybe badly but decided to try by putting the 120 volts ac on the 120 volt ac lines . started the charger ran the charge program ... the lights fliggered low high low high about 4 or 6 times going from 75 to 105 volts charger read 85 if I remember my tester was reading the fluctuation the charger was reading rms im guessing . anyway then the charger kicked into the second stage lights came on bright but with 300 volts at the output .... it was very stable though I must say  lol .... no fluctuation this time . anyway it then said charge complete ... but the lights stayed on and so did the 300 votls .... 

know well wherever I put the 120volts ac either on the 120 volt ac leads or the 240 volt leads even with a 30 cell 350 cv and 100 ah numbers as soon as I plug the charger the output is 300 volts dc and I get bright lights ... 

obviously I probrebly have a igbt problem ... I don't see ANY physical damage anywhere at all ... is there a way of testing the igbt in place to verify if its failed ? from what I understand the igbt is basically the on/off switch for the dc + output before the inductor ? so if like at the moment the +in on the igbt board has 0 ohms to the inductor screw on the driver board that would mean its failed open ? from what I read on the specs sheet this thing is tough as hell and can take a beating ... almost 1200 amps of short circuit at 25 degrees Celsius ... how the hell could this thing blow with no trace of nothing else ? since I had the voltage going from 75 to 105 volts 4 or 5 times im guessing that would mean the igbt was varying ? caused by what that I don't know ? but could this have blown it ? does semikron offer guarantees on there igbts  lol ? 

anyway gotta find out first if its blown so help for that appreciated ... then a little help to verify what could have caused it ... and well then obviously if you could send me a price to send me a new igbt to my email [email protected] it would be appreciated  ... 


as always thanks ... I am a little baffled though as to what could have happened with nothing else being apparently blown :s ? is there something I should check that normally would have blown witht the igbt ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

damn that's one hell of a text I wrote up there lol ... 

last thought for the night... could the pwm in on the driver board connected to the old out on the control board that I connected but still don't have a response that they go together be a reason ? I saw you write somewhere that a bad pwm power setting could blow an igbt ? ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

reread a whole bunch of posts for the past hour about the charger to change my mind a little lol ....

redid from scratch the 12 volt testing .... all works fine ...

battery voltage testing is right on 50 volts my fuke testers says 50.2 ...

im hesitant though to restart the 120 volt testing until I get news of what I had done was good or not and if my igbt is blown ....

edit : .... Im darn sure my igbt is blown because now when I put my 50 volt battery to the input 240 volt of the charger and the dummy light loads to the output they light up constently .... so valery I definetly need an igbt so please email me for that as well as how to check what could be blown as well and why because im really not getting what caused it ... hoefully I described my steps well enough that you can help ...

thanks in advance ... good night its now 12:45 and horses are fed at 6:00 ... by me lol :S


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

the description is very thorough, thanks! which version of firmware are you using?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> reread a whole bunch of posts for the past hour about the charger to change my mind a little lol ....
> 
> redid from scratch the 12 volt testing .... all works fine ...
> 
> ...


Well i warned about testing charger with light bulbs on output havent i? I belive i said it to Graham (Sexstrap) last year in october??? 
Valery, any comment? Can you explain if this test step has any true merit, or just destroys IGBTs? Some work fine with water heater as a load? Maybe two bulbs are to small a load?

I never used dummy load with my charger, only battery. It hs to be more than 30V more like 50V. And i skipped DC input testing, because i dont intend to use it that way. 
I put 2x 60W bulbs in paralel as precharge and current limiter on one AC line though. 
I then set the input at 1A and output at 1A and then i raised output in steps. When all was well i removed bulbs and input 2A, then 5A then 10A and also raised output. Then i put the charger in the box....

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Arber yes you warned ... But i figured that following instructions from who built it would be best . 

Bad move or not dunno did this cause my failure or a harware issue dont know 

. I have the very latest firmware valery . Toke it on your website no more than a month ago .

Edit: charger_2013_07_31_v12 firware .... 

First off could you confirm to me that pwm in on the driver board does go into the old out on the control board ? Im talking about the connector with the a and b in and out wires ... 

Second . I checked all my hardware ... Chips , caps, and connections everything looks fine . Except obviously igbt . Low voltage testing confirms my 12 volt and 5 volt circuits are intact ... What next :s ? 

Arber as for the ignt testing problem do you know of anyone who just changed the igbt . Then restarted testing but only the 5kw heater element and everything was fine ?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Arber yes you warned ... But i figured that following instructions from who built it would be best .
> 
> Bad move or not dunno did this cause my failure or a harware issue dont know
> 
> ...


Sooo... you use nonPFC unit? If yes read on, if not let Valery help because i only have experience with nonPFC. 

Well as i remember Graham (sexstrap) replaced IGBT and then did the test with battery connected. It was a success. Besides that i dont know. I have seen Jackbauer and couple guys run 3kW or more heaters as a load. They heated some water to see if the charger dealt with power. 

I think bulbs on output are a waste of time. If you connect two bulbs on AC line you are protected from inrush and you should test in small steps as i said.

1. 2x 60W bulbs on 230VAC + 1A input + 1A output + battery cca 48VDC

2. Change output to 2A then 3A then 5A! See if it works.

3. Take the bulbs off and input to 2A. Output to 2A and battery connected.
If it works change output from 2A to 8A in steps. 

4. Prepare a precharge circuit and contactor and place charger in a box. Be sure to draw a schematic if you deviated from original design. I know i did.

5. Connect charger to complete battery, calibrate and set input 1A, output 1A and observe. If all works raise limits by 5A, but keep input same as output. 
When you are at your AC fuse limit stop raising input but continue with output as long as the charger allows.

6. Sit back and observe. If your output is higher than 50A you should watch for derating point so you can optimise output current.

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Arber i do have a nonpfc 12 kw unit .... Everything is version 12 except the driver board which is version 13 ... I havent seen anyone as of yet with a non pfc version 13 driver board that is working ... Ive seen a few building though .... 

I get your idea of a bad load for lamps on the output but i just dont get how emw hasnt blown anything yet if they do the same to test there units ... Uńless they dont since there so sure of themselves after doing so many that they go straight to a 5kw heater element .... ?? Valery maybe you could clarify your testing ? Does your builder still do the lightbulb test on his new units officially ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I have a 5 kw heater element . I will wait gor valery to answer me about the pwm in and old out ... Then hopefully he can make me test something to make sure everything is ok except the igbt ... Ill then order a new igbt ... Then i might just skip the bulb test . Ill decide after thought and discussion with everyone who wants to help  ..


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> I have a 5 kw heater element . I will wait gor valery to answer me about the pwm in and old out ... Then hopefully he can make me test something to make sure everything is ok except the igbt ... Ill then order a new igbt ... Then i might just skip the bulb test . Ill decide after thought and discussion with everyone who wants to help  ..


Ok

I now remember Sexstrap mentioned he d blown IGBT and with it went driver chip also. Have you checked this chip. There has to be a test described in some early posts. Look for september 2013.

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Im guessing the driver chip is probrebly the a3120 chip ? If so its only a few dollars ... Might as well order a new one with the igbt ? 

How can i confirm 100% the igbt is blown and not in position full open ? Obvioudly it needs to be tested disconnected ... Was my test good ? Test continuity between top and bottom pins if 0 ohms igbt is blown full on ? 

I will try to find tonight arber the previous posts you mentioned . But not to long if i want to still have a wife in the morning lol ... Ive sorta been exagerating lately on the charger time lol ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Im guessing the driver chip is probrebly the a3120 chip ? If so its only a few dollars ... Might as well order a new one with the igbt ?
> 
> How can i confirm 100% the igbt is blown and not in position full open ? Obvioudly it needs to be tested disconnected ... Was my test good ? Test continuity between top and bottom pins if 0 ohms igbt is blown full on ?
> 
> I will try to find tonight arber the previous posts you mentioned . But not to long if i want to still have a wife in the morning lol ... Ive sorta been exagerating lately on the charger time lol ...


normally A3120, DC-DC, and IGBT would fail together. You can test this by removing a driver board from the charger and applying 12V to it separately. You should see -15V between Gate and Emitter terminals of the driver board (the ones that go into the power board)

to quickly check IGBT, measure resistance between all pairs of main terminals - none of them should read solid zero. You do not need to disconnect from circuit - just make sure there are no remaining voltages in circuit before you do resistance testing. If you get a zero in any of these measurements, you have a problem. If not, the problem might still be there but in a different place - usually gate would short to collector. If you have easy access to gate terminals, you can measure those resistances, as well (between gate and all main terminals)

Re light bulb test killing IGBTs - this is highly unlikely. The only time we have seen IGBT failures at no load (lamps are approximately = no load) was when we had immediate duty ramp on IGBT gate signal for some reason. When output caps are completely discharged, turning IGBT suddenly into those caps will most likely kill it. 

In our tests, that happened a couple of times when we played with time constants for duty ramp for our new CHAdeMO units. It also happened a couple of times when we [quickly] ramped duty before the output PWM was enabled through the hardware current limiter. As a result, duty would ramp to 97% first and then hardware limiter would allow PWM signal through. Blown IGBT

None of these scenarios should be your problem unless you attempted to use V14 Experimental firmware or changed timing in firmware. I believe you haven't done any of that.

I would do a look-over of your boards to make sure that all solder joints etc are clean, tight and without any bridges, and there are no visible issues with components. Esp look at the 10k resistor on the power board - it often gets blown together with IGBT (but not always). 

You can test into any resistive load - 5kW heater would be fine. The reason we suggest lamps is that (1) they are cheap and usually available without a trip to a specialized / online store, (2) if anything goes wrong, interrupting lamp current is trivial (vs a 5kW load at 300VDC that *will* produce an arc, hopefully without a flash). If you don't trust lamps, I would go with a 1-2kW resistive load rated for 240VAC. Something like http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Stainle...393721726&sr=8-8&keywords=heating+element+1kw (use submerged, of course). 

V


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Valery what do you think of using a 240volt variac when I beginning to bring up the line side power for testing. Would you also use the 2 x 60w series light bulbs?

Thanks,
2010Ranger


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Thanks for reply valery ... Tommorow night ill verify my boards ect ... Ill make sure to order what i need for monday morning ... 

I need a reply though for pwm in driver board and old out on control board ... Do they go together or not i have a bad feeling they dont .


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok i see. 
There is another thing i noticed some time ago when i was playing with used IGBTs. If you touch E1G1 or E2G2 control terminals with a bare hand, sometimes you have some static on you. What you get is one dead IGBT without a lot of noise. So i would advise to use caution when handeling contacts. Maybe have them covered when not installed. I use simple isolated faston connectors to cover control contacts.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

Can you tell (or persume) how would the charger behave with 600VDC input? I have it almost complete, connected and i have to setup voltage sensing. It has to know if it is connected only single phase. So it doesnt flip fuses. 
How would you have at it?

I tried it like this:

#ifdef drop110power 
//set to 300V to trigger reduction for 3phase charger connected single phase only
if(mainsV<300) { 
pwr/=2; // later, pwr is assumed to be a 220VAC-equivalent current
pwr=min(pwr, 12.); // equivalent 15A from 110VAC // DEBUG 

Do you think your V12 resistor divider will behave similarily than before?
Also i am not sure if "pwr/=2" is correct. 3phase power is measured 1,7X single phase, so is it ok to input this?

TNX

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> Can you tell (or persume) how would the charger behave with 600VDC input? I have it almost complete, connected and i have to setup voltage sensing. It has to know if it is connected only single phase. So it doesnt flip fuses.
> How would you have at it?
> ...


I assume all the IGBTs and input caps have been changed to higher voltage parts? Also, since your output caps are rated only for 400V, I would connect your battery to the output before powering up the charger.

1.73 is the right factor (sqrt(3)). But that assumes PF corrected loads. The right ration for non-PF load could be different. 

Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi All - 

Quick update on the Due-based charger control.

As some of your might remember, a couple of months back we have started working on the next-gen control board that would run our chargers. The main trigger was not only us running out of resources even for normal charger operations, but also the desire to implement CANbus control and CHAdeMO protocol. And leave enough space for all the other goodies. 

We are now very close to that point, with the 4th gen of this board going into small run production. We have already used the previous gen for our successful CHAdeMO demos.

Specs:
1.	Processing power
1.	Based on Arduino Due board featuring a 32-bit Atmel ARM microcontroller running at 84MHz (compare to 16MHz on a Pro Mini)
2.	96KB of RAM and 512KB of program flash (up from 2KB and 32KB on a Pro Mini, resopectively)​2.	I/O
1.	All the usual inputs and outputs that were present and used on our previous boards. Along with identical mounting hole pattern and LCD-button layout, this makes this board a straight drop-in replacement for our existing control boards (required level conversion from 5V sensors into a 3.3V Due is implemented on board)
2.	Additional ~5 analog and ~10 digital inputs / outputs are broken out for user access (the charger enclosure will be appropriately modified to allow access)
3.	All 4 UART Serials are broken out and accessible from outside if needed
4.	2 CAN tranceivers up to 1Mbps, 8 mailboxes per channel). Accessible via a DB9 connector
5.	2 high-current open-collector outputs (up to 5A)
6.	3 high voltage relays tied to 3 digital outputs - 8A 250VAC rating. These are used in CHAdeMO implementation 
7.	Wireless remote (150 feet range) to emulate up to 4 buttons. 2 buttons are tied to the normal buttons you find on the current control boards.​3.	Storage
1.	MicroSD slot on board (SPI controlled, libraries available) - great for logging
2.	32KB EEPROM (Due does not have EEPROM so we had to add our own to store charger configs etc) - compare to just 1KB on a Pro Mini​4.	Comms
1.	WiFi on board - tied to one of the UART serial ports
1.	based on the Roving Networks RN-171 module that has proven itself very well in our JuiceBox EVSEs. 
2.	This is an intelligent module that can do quite a lot and itself has a 32-bit microcontroller with a number of accessible input / outputs
3.	WPS one-button setup is enabled and the button is on board, accessible from outside​2.	BlueTooth on board - tied to the same UART serial port as WiFi so one can use either WiFi or BT. I think this is a reasonable compromise
3.	Fiber optic transmitter & receiver connected to UART2 / digital pins (16/17). Noise-free comms with the outside world using inexpensive fiber and hardware (~$30 per channel all-in cost)​5.	Other
1.	RTC on I2C bus - with battery backup​
Thank you all for your suggestions - as you can see we have incorporate pretty much all of them!

As this has become a rather powerful board in its own right, we expect that a few people will be interested in the board for various purposes outside our charging systems. So we will be setting up a separate product on our site for this. 

Expected availability for ordering a standalone board (bare PCB or fully assembled) is end of this month (March 2014). Expected availability in our chargers - April 2014 (as we need to port all the charger code to Due and test it fully).

Let us know what you think. Also, let me know if you'd like to get one of the boards from this prototype run. 

Thanks!
Valery


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

okay valery my tests are pretty much done on what I need to order to repair the damage from the blown igbt .... 

a few questions first  ....

1. I still don't have a reply on what happens with the driver board ( pwm in) located beween the +12 out and gnd out . does this go or not go to the control board ( old out ) between +12 in and gnd in ?

2. my igbt has physical damage when you look through the center bolt hole you can see ripped copper connections. so obviously that's toast and I get 0 ohms between power taps 1 and 3 ... am I correctto say its scrap ? lol not really a question just having a laugh and want to be sure lol ...

3 . your dc to dc converters .... vesd-s12-d15 ... they are 12 volts in 15 volts out . ive read the spec sheets ect and mine is toast ( U4) . the one going to the igbt . but the other one on the left ( U3) that im not sure what its suppose to power honestly is out of whack .... 12.29 volts in ... 31.47 volts between pins 5 and 7 ( out + and out - ) and 15.67 volts between 6 and 7 ( vout + and comm ) ... this obviously isn't right ????? 

4. while unplugging things to check the driver board ect ... I noticed something that troubles me a little .... input ac0 on the voltage doubler ... your instructions specify to connect ac0 this is your neutral 120 volt in ... there are two ac0 inputs one on each sideof each bank of capacitors ... what troubles me is I just now realized that my ac0 in is not on the same side as my shared 120/240 input wire . in other words ... ac1 ( 120/240) wire is on the left . my ac2 (240 volt ) input is on the right . and my ac0 neutral input is on the right .... could this cause a problem ? is this wrong ? should I move my ac0 to the left with the 120/240 shared input ac1 ? 


thanks in advance ...

for the parts please email me a paypal invoice [email protected] that I will pay immediately ! I want the parts asap ! my csa approuval is getting urgent as im sorta waiting for my charger to be approuved by my company to change company lol .... long story  ...

I need : IGBT skm145gb066d , R45 resistor on power Board getting weird numbers im guessing from caps but I don't want to mess around its getting replaced , 2 x dc to dc converters ( VESD2-S12-D15 ) , A3120v 1308 chip ( what I think drives the IGBT has signs of overheat) , my power resistor appears fine I still get 9.9 ohms on it . If you think of anything that usually gets blown along with an IGBT please advise Ill check during my lunch tomorrow ... 


besides that well im still clueless as to why my igbt got blown ... except that arber and a few people seem to think the light output test may be a culprit ... ? what do you think ? obviously I will check all solders and make sure nothing is shorted out which i did when building but will do again , but besides that :s ? I don't want to put it back together and then have it blow again ... 

sorry for the book ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> 1. I still don't have a reply on what happens with the driver board ( pwm in) located beween the +12 out and gnd out . does this go or not go to the control board ( old out ) between +12 in and gnd in ?


yes, 'PWM in' connects to 'Old out'. 



crackerjackz said:


> 2. my igbt has physical damage when you look through the center bolt hole you can see ripped copper connections. so obviously that's toast and I get 0 ohms between power taps 1 and 3 ... am I correctto say its scrap ? lol not really a question just having a laugh and want to be sure lol ...


yeah sounds like it's toast



crackerjackz said:


> 3 . your dc to dc converters .... vesd-s12-d15 ... they are 12 volts in 15 volts out . ive read the spec sheets ect and mine is toast ( U4) . the one going to the igbt . but the other one on the left ( U3) that im not sure what its suppose to power honestly is out of whack .... 12.29 volts in ... 31.47 volts between pins 5 and 7 ( out + and out - ) and 15.67 volts between 6 and 7 ( vout + and comm ) ... this obviously isn't right ?????


it's exactly what's expected. dc-dc produces +/-15v



crackerjackz said:


> 4. while unplugging things to check the driver board ect ... I noticed something that troubles me a little .... input ac0 on the voltage doubler ... your instructions specify to connect ac0 this is your neutral 120 volt in ... there are two ac0 inputs one on each sideof each bank of capacitors ... what troubles me is I just now realized that my ac0 in is not on the same side as my shared 120/240 input wire . in other words ... ac1 ( 120/240) wire is on the left . my ac2 (240 volt ) input is on the right . and my ac0 neutral input is on the right .... could this cause a problem ? is this wrong ? should I move my ac0 to the left with the 120/240 shared input ac1 ?


it should not matter for relatively recent boards but pls move just in case. 



crackerjackz said:


> I need : IGBT skm145gb066d , R45 resistor on power Board getting weird numbers im guessing from caps but I don't want to mess around its getting replaced , 2 x dc to dc converters ( VESD2-S12-D15 ) , A3120v 1308 chip ( what I think drives the IGBT has signs of overheat) , my power resistor appears fine I still get 9.9 ohms on it . If you think of anything that usually gets blown along with an IGBT please advise Ill check during my lunch tomorrow ...


will do.



crackerjackz said:


> besides that well im still clueless as to why my igbt got blown ... except that arber and a few people seem to think the light output test may be a culprit ... ? what do you think ? obviously I will check all solders and make sure nothing is shorted out which i did when building but will do again , but besides that :s ? I don't want to put it back together and then have it blow again ...


lamps as a cause would be very unusual. You could also skip the lamps and test directly with the battery on output.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> I assume all the IGBTs and input caps have been changed to higher voltage parts? Also, since your output caps are rated only for 400V, I would connect your battery to the output before powering up the charger.
> 
> 1.73 is the right factor (sqrt(3)). But that assumes PF corrected loads. The right ration for non-PF load could be different.
> 
> Valery.


Yes definitely i changed the main cap bank to 3000uF 800V and the bank on input of IGBT is now 680uF 800V + 15uF 800V foil cap. Also i added big snubber cap 1uF 800V i found in a triphase UPS . This should cover energy demand and lessen ripple. However i need something to tell my charger to lower power when on 230VAC. Would my suggestion in post #1908 be ok? If not tell me what could i do?

Why did you choose "pwr/=2; // later, pwr is assumed to be a 220VAC-equivalent current"
Is this due to single phase power rating between 115VAC and 230VAC being 2? So then i should replace 2 with factor 1,7 for my charger, yes? Please confirm. 

This is my charger now:
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/02032014069.jpg

I will test single phase power today as i stated before. First using lamps on input with 1A, 2A, 5A and then 10A without lamps. If this test goes well, i will apply 3phase and repeat tests with 3 bulbs this time .
I will still use N line but only to supply 230VAC to PSU, fan and 12V battery charger.

Wish me luck....

TNX

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

it's exactly what's expected. dc-dc produces +/-15v

I was thinking out+ to out- would be 15 volts . If i figure correctly to get what i get 30 volts . The converter does + 15 volts to com and -15 volts to comm but not relative to each other ... Hense -30 between pins 5-7 ??


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

A DC-DC converter rated +/- 15V will give 30 volts between the rails. 

Some suggestions for initial testing:

1. Get some inexpensive fast acting fuses and add them liberally, on the load, on each IGBT, in series with each large capacitor, etc. Size them so that they will blow within 10-20 mSec at the maximum device ratings.

2. Add some appropriately rated TVS diodes across each IGBT and the capacitors, after the fuses. This will protect against overvoltage.

3. Connect something like a 1k resistor from gate to emitter of each IGBT to protect against static when handling them.

4. Add test points to the circuit board for multimeter and scope probes. They can be just solid wire with a small loop which will hold the probe tip or provide a place to clip the reference lead. It prevents disaster when the probe slips on IC pins and such.

5. Get some surplus IGBTs for about $20 each for initial testing.

6. To test an IGBT, use a 9 or 12V battery and a small lamp load on the collector. Using a 1k resistor, apply 9 or 12V to the gate, and the lamp should light. It should stay lit for a little while when you disconnect because of gate capacitance. Then short the gate to emitter (best using the 1k resistor), and the lamp should turn off.


----------



## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Valery / Anyone? what do you think of using a 240volt variac when I beginning to bring up the line side power for testing. Would you also use the 2 x 60w series light bulbs?

Thanks,
2010Ranger


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

DOH!

I failed... I think i burned 3phase bridge when charger tripped the fuses. Otherwise charger woke up and Arduino worked fine. Precharge worked in 10s to 310V on single phase. Havent tried 3phase yet. But when i started charging 1A the moment contactor engaged fuse tripped.

Valery can you please check if my igbt is ok for this charger. I use Mitsubishi CM300DY-24H. I think it is fine, but please check. I have to check my wiring.

tnx

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Parts invoice ?? :s


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

OK i did it. It seems i burned one of the diode but five was ok. I replaced 3phase bridge and i tried to charge. I got as far as 15A input on single phase. Then IGBT started to make noises. I guess cap bank is too small. 3000uF at 320VDC. And i see voltage drop to 275VDC.
On triphase it is another story. I get 600VDC and i can draw equivalent 32A at 520VDC from mains. That is 44A with 140VDC on output at 54% duty. My fuses protested at that point. PF is still here .

I guess i will try to change momentary amp draw to 1,3 and i will change power to 1,75. We will see...

I will also try to design larger cap bank. 4000uF to 900V.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nope charger is acting again. 

Now i dont know what to think. I plug in and precharge fills caps only to 143VDC!!! Charger actualy shows 125V. Incidently 143V is also the voltage of the battery in my car. Strange... 
I measured multiple times, i even connected 3phase and saw the same 143V across C1 and E2. Is IGBT fried or could this be caps?

If i measure bridge i get 230VAC between L1 and L2 but i get also 80VAC from L1 to L3!!! But L3 is not connected in single phase.

Help i am totally clueless.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

It seems i did burn my IGBT somehow. I disconnected input caps and they topped up normaly at 310V. So i went on to measure IGBT and G1 to E1 has diode continuity by itself. That means that gate is shot! Ah well... Now i just have to check driver board. How did you said you checked? 

1. apply 12V to input. Get -15V on output terminals.
2. appy pwm signal to PWM on input. Get square function on output.
Anything else?

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> It seems i did burn my IGBT somehow. I disconnected input caps and they topped up normaly at 310V. So i went on to measure IGBT and G1 to E1 has diode continuity by itself. That means that gate is shot! Ah well... Now i just have to check driver board. How did you said you checked?
> 
> 1. apply 12V to input. Get -15V on output terminals.
> 2. appy pwm signal to PWM on input. Get square function on output.
> ...


Hi Valery

Can you tell me if this chip is ok for replacement IGBT driver on V12 driver board?

http://si.farnell.com/avago-technologies/hcpl-3120-000e/optocoupler-2-5a-gate-drive-o-p/dp/9995439

I have one at home 

tnx

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

??? ... Valery any news on parts


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> Can you tell me if this chip is ok for replacement IGBT driver on V12 driver board?
> 
> ...


Valery...

any clues on driver?

When i connected driver board to 12V and put PWM in i didnt get any voltage trough G an E terminals, so i guess driver is toast. Also DCDC is not giving any voltage. I noticed though that A7520 chip is getting very hot just on 12V! is there anything i should know? Both DCDC around it give steady +/-15V.

tnx


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

since Ive been left in the dark for a week with no update whatsoever I have no choice but to get parts on my own or risk losing even more precious time ...


before I order I have question concerning chip numbers .... for example ....

is a a3120v theoretically equivalent with a a3120 
1308 0802

or do the last digits have an impact from what I can tell they are just manufacturer numbers ? ... 

im looking at this http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-PCS-HCPL-3...537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461bc09c89 to replace my igbt gate driver ... 


igbt is easy exact same number found .... 

dc to dc converter ... original part was vesd-s12-d15 found a vesd1-s12-d15 which I calso believe to be exactly the same thing ... ?? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CUI-Inc-VESD...329?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d2087141

200k resistor to replace r45 also easy ...

any help to determine if the new parts I want to order will work would be great ... I intend to buy two of each of what is mentioned above as to not cause so much delays if another problems accurs during testing or later on ... 

thanks ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sorry for delay.

DigiKey Part Numbers are (these are also listed on the BOM file on our site):
* A3120 driver: 516-2197-5-ND or 516-2254-5-ND
* DC-DC: 102-2065-ND

IGBT - any 600V IGBT with 150A or higher rating with terminal spacing of 23mm will do. Example is http://www.sindopower.com/en/Produc...ET-Modules/SEMITRANS/SKM145GB066D.html?cur=1&

Thanks,
Valery


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Is it that you are uninterested in the sale of parts ? Obviosly it would be cheaper and faster to buy from you ...

Well faster. ... That all depends if you would take another week to send me the invoice and then another to send the parts ... But cheaper yes thats almost certain ..


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ive ordered officially 2 x new IGBt modules 

10 x 200 k ohm 3 watt (r45 resisotors ) 

im waiting on a shipping estimate on digikey for 2 x a3120 chip and 2 x vesd2-s12-d15 dcto dc converters ...

2 of each will allow me to not have such shitty not understandable downtimes if something goes wrong ....


knock on wood about the something goes wrong part ....


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> sorry for delay.
> 
> DigiKey Part Numbers are (these are also listed on the BOM file on our site):
> * A3120 driver: 516-2197-5-ND or 516-2254-5-ND
> ...


Well i got the same problem, ordering from digikey in EU is expensive.
Thanks for confirming P/Ns. Though I already found appropriate driver replacement on farnell. Also i got another 150A 1200V IGBT here:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/350983017091?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I have to be more carefull this time though. Some of my friends think that i caused IGBT blowout by touching charger casing? Who knows what can happen at 600V. Though charger did run for nearly 30minutes without noise or fuse chatter.

Also i would like to order PCBs for my next charger iteration:

non-PFC charger
1x power PCB 
1x driver PCB
1x control PCB
1x LCD 

Please send invoice on my mail where i also put this querry

tnx

Arber


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey arber that igt looks less promising no ? May just be appearences ... I found the same original on ebay ... http://m.ebay.ca/itm?itemId=131085867646


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I aint taking chances im buying two of everything .... Just have to wait till tommorow for a digikey response ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Hey arber that igt looks less promising no ? May just be appearences ... I found the same original on ebay ... http://m.ebay.ca/itm?itemId=131085867646


Sure, regarding amps it is weaker, however i need it to survive 600VDC input and 60A output at least. I guess 150A rating will have to do. It also has very similar contacts for mounting to PCB.

A


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Hello my name is Patrick I'm new to this forum, I would like to say its good to see so many people interested in these builds. I bought this 12kwr charger kit 4 months ago, and I've been really disappointed in the fact that i assembled it to maybe 80% 2 and a half months ago and it needed to be updated mostly so I sent it to Valery to have it updated and have not received anything yet. I have been waiting over 2 months now with no charger no refund. I specifically said I am willing to pay $1000 in cash just to have it updated. If this is not enough please have Valery just send it back to me then. Now will someone please talk to Valery for me I am willing to pay anyone for their help. He has not emailed me for over a month and i cant get into contact with him. I really don't want to have bring any legal problems here but I really just wanted my charger fixed properly. If someone can talk to Valery I would very much appreciate it, if anyone needs to contact me my number is 702-300-3127 email is [email protected]. Thanks everyone.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

You sent it to get updated ? You mean completed ? Cant wait to hear valerys side of the story on this one ... Ill give valery the benefit of doubt until he responds . If you dont get an answer repost every few days hell pop back out soon enough ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

patrick1 said:


> Hello my name is Patrick I'm new to this forum, I would like to say its good to see so many people interested in these builds. I bought this 12kwr charger kit 4 months ago, and I've been really disappointed in the fact that i assembled it to maybe 80% 2 and a half months ago and it needed to be updated mostly so I sent it to Valery to have it updated and have not received anything yet. I have been waiting over 2 months now with no charger no refund. I specifically said I am willing to pay $1000 in cash just to have it updated. If this is not enough please have Valery just send it back to me then. Now will someone please talk to Valery for me I am willing to pay anyone for their help. He has not emailed me for over a month and i cant get into contact with him. I really don't want to have bring any legal problems here but I really just wanted my charger fixed properly. If someone can talk to Valery I would very much appreciate it, if anyone needs to contact me my number is 702-300-3127 email is [email protected]. Thanks everyone.


Hi Patrick - we have never agreed to fix your partially assembled kit. We have agreed to evaluate. Yes I understand you really want us to but unfortunately I cannot commit to a specific timeline. 

We have received your offer to pay $1,000 on March 9 (1 business day ago). Unfortunately, while it may seem like a generous amount of money on the surface, it is really hard to justify for me to do this even at this price. Here's why.

* in a couple of cases when we did agree to do such a job for people, we ended up completely scrapping the builds. If the assembly quality is not at the level that we have in units going out of our shop, we have to scrap it as I cannot let a sub-par assembled unit leave my shop. So in most cases, we ended up rebuilding from near-scratch

* I cannot have any of my assembly guys do this job - they do not have years of experience required to troubleshoot someone's partial build. Hence I would have to do it myself. Moreover, I would have to spend way more time on this compared to just building a completely new unit. 

So like I told you before, it's not about the money but rather about when I will have large enough chunk of time to work on it. It is actually easier for me to just have a new unit built and sent to you but unfortunately I cannot do this for $1,000...

We can of course send you your partially assembled kit back. As you remember from our email exchanges before you sent it in, I have really tried to help you diagnose it and direct you to fix it. This is really the only viable way for me. Every time we take one of these jobs, it ends up being a huge time sink and in the end we have to take a loss.

Hope you understand.

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Also i would like to order PCBs for my next charger iteration:
> 
> non-PFC charger
> 1x power PCB
> ...


email sent. I assumed you are looking for non-PFC and don't need the bridge / voltage doubler board?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Patrick ... You say your build was 80% complete .... Was it complete in building ? Or you stopped building at some point ? Were you finished and just trouble shooting ? Was it a pfc or non pfc unit ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Digikey parts ordered  amazing service and canadians 8 $ next day shipping with order 200 $ and less . ... Cant ask for more . 

They changed the dc dc converter part though valery . Your part number isnt manufactured anymore ... 

Dc replacement. Pem2-s12-d15-s ... 102-2776-nd is the new number


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Ok well if you can do it great, if not then please send it back to me. If you need my address please say so.


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

I do actually want something, I wanna buy the updated arduino due with wifi and the lil remote. If i purchase these can you install the charger firmware and software for me? I had a hard time trying to do that. Does this new arduino have a usb port? I'll pay for whatever, let me know about how much it is total? thanks alot


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Patrick, I got you beat dude, Im going on 3+ months waiting on a couple of chargers I sent in for repairs.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

jehu said:


> Patrick, I got you beat dude, Im going on 3+ months waiting on a couple of chargers I sent in for repairs.




A couple ??? Why would you have more then one ? You say repair ... Did they ever work ? Did you start and not finish them ? If so i totally understand valerys side of view ... For pfc versions anyway .... If non pfc i understand there wanting to quite since the instructions made me angry and want to quite at least 5 times as well !!!!!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

patrick1 said:


> I do actually want something, I wanna buy the updated arduino due with wifi and the lil remote. If i purchase these can you install the charger firmware and software for me? I had a hard time trying to do that. Does this new arduino have a usb port? I'll pay for whatever, let me know about how much it is total? thanks alot


Hi Patrick - sure. 

But not sure I understand. The control board for the charger is based on Arduino Pro MIni. We can get one programmed and sent to you at no charge at all. Please confirm that this is what you want. We are working on a Due-based control board but it's not in production yet. 

Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> A couple ??? Why would you have more then one ? You say repair ... Did they ever work ? Did you start and not finish them ? If so i totally understand valerys side of view ... For pfc versions anyway .... If non pfc i understand there wanting to quite since the instructions made me angry and want to quite at least 5 times as well !!!!!


I will let Jehu fill in the details but one was a partially completed kit and another is a test bench unit that had the output shorted by external connections (and IGBTs blown as a result). 

ADDITION: the incomplete kit was not complete so not powered up. Test bench unit was working fine until the output was shorted.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Did he build both ? If he built them but cant change the blown igbt now im completly lost ...?


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

ok so then yes just program my current arduino if you can, and send the lil red button on the control board i think i damaged mine by accident. If you see anything else noticeable on my charger i might need let me know, appreciate it alot. If theres time to have wifi and that lil remote control added let me know too.


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

I will also be in your area sunday and monday, I would like to just pick up my charger in person if thats ok?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi all.

I had communicatin with Valery and would like to post reply here.

Do IGBT specs have something with safe usage at 600VDC or its just voltage rating? I heard 1200V IGBTs are usualy slower than 600V variant. Is there something true to this? 
Is my IGBT response time good enough? 
Better questioon, would the Vin voltage divider on driver board be up to the task at 580VDC?

He replied:

You need 1200V IGBTs. They are slower but you don't really have an option there ;-)
Good question on the divider - you will need to add another 1.5M resistor in series with 2 1M resistors. You would then need to adjust the upperR_bV value in the code. You might need to do the same for the input voltage measurement.

............


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I wanted to ask about input resistor divider. You proposed 1,5Mohm resistor added in series? How would i do this on the driver board?

Like here?

Vbop ->---[1M]----[1M]--[1,5M]-->- comparator

and like this?

Vout ->--[1M]----[1M]----[1,5M]-->-comparator

Or I could just solder resistor directly between both 1M. Providing to unsolder the center connection first. 

But why would i need to add 1,5M also to Vout? does it matter?
Where is the line in V12 software for Vout divider? Or is this done by calibration at the start?

Also would you speculate what would happen with PFC at triphase? Would it be better at 400VAC triphase than at 230VAC single phase? I hope it vill be better.

TNX

Arber


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




600 volt igbts ate the standards in his kits though ... No ? You would only need a 1200 volt igbt since your uping your voltage output and playing around with 3 phase inputs am i correct ?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> I wanted to ask about input resistor divider. You proposed 1,5Mohm resistor added in series? How would i do this on the driver board?
> 
> Like here?
> 
> ...



You're right - no need to change on Vout as your battery is below 350V. Your understanding of how to wire is correct.

We have not measured 3-phase PFs yet. So I really don't know. Would be awesome if you do that and post here ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> 600 volt igbts ate the standards in his kits though ... No ? You would only need a 1200 volt igbt since your uping your voltage output and playing around with 3 phase inputs am i correct ?


His input voltage is 400V 3-phase which produces rectified voltage close to 600V. Too close to a voltage rating of 600V IGBTs. Good practice is to keep below 90% (better even 80%) of the voltage ratings AFTER you account for spikes / higher-than-normal input voltage (up to 10% is allowed in AC mains in the US...) / etc.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

patrick1 said:


> I will also be in your area sunday and monday, I would like to just pick up my charger in person if thats ok?


Sunday afternoon is best. I will PM you the address.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> His input voltage is 400V 3-phase which produces rectified voltage close to 600V. Too close to a voltage rating of 600V IGBTs. Good practice is to keep below 90% (better even 80%) of the voltage ratings AFTER you account for spikes / higher-than-normal input voltage (up to 10% is allowed in AC mains in the US...) / etc.


Yes and i hope greater voltage could in fact help with IGBT heating. But as i see now it depends if IGBT can switch at fast enough rate. 
Valery, can you tell if i could lower PWM frequency from 20kHz to say 16kHz just by programming? Or is PWM hardware fixed?

Let me remind that i ran the charger on 3phase, phase to neutral, that is Y 230V with 120° phase shift. Its awsome charging at 6kW from 16A fuses. BUT at 230VAC PF limits me to cca 60% of available power and fuses are at their limit here. Even though that L1/2/3 had only 10A running trough it!!! Also N cable is hot with 25A running trough it! This really sux . That is why i would like to make it 3phase lin to line 400VAC. Then even at 10A per phase i would draw true 10kW. Of course if charger does not overheat. But i got that covered too .

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Yes and i hope greater voltage could in fact help with IGBT heating. But as i see now it depends if IGBT can switch at fast enough rate.
> 
> Valery, can you tell if i could lower PWM frequency from 20kHz to say 16kHz just by programming? Or is PWM hardware fixed?
> 
> ...




Wait in three phase if all lines are equal say 10 amps you should have 0 on neutral because they cancel out .... Just like with 120/240 .... 

Isnt your neutral ac0 wire # 8 awg or 10 ? If so it shoulnt not heat at all till at least 30 amps .... ?


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks very much valery


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

By the way val the earliest I can be in your area on sunday is around 8pm if thats too late for you, then I can do anytime monday. let me know please


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Wait in three phase if all lines are equal say 10 amps you should have 0 on neutral because they cancel out .... Just like with 120/240 ....
> 
> Isnt your neutral ac0 wire # 8 awg or 10 ? If so it shoulnt not heat at all till at least 30 amps .... ?


Yes that was the idea, so i wouldnt even need to connect N wire, all would be done by 3 phases. But unfortunately load varries, so it is close. Also i think much interference would be gone. I had it wired directly to batt negative, so i imagine batteries got their share of AC harmonics.

I use 2,5mm2 as my mains wire. Anything else would be nonsense, since my house mains is wired with 2,5mm2 too . That is why i am confident N line will hold 25A. But 1/3 of the energy is wasted in hald bridge...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery 

What would happen if i put 2M 1% resistor in Vin sense line and correct software to 4M? Would it behave normaly? I dont have any 500k resistors and to get them i would have to wait couple days. I want to start charging at least from 1phase, so i can drive to work. Therefore i can add 2x 1M or 1x 2M. It will probably extend sensing to cca 800V no ? 

So software will change to:
const float upperR0_mV=4000.; 

EDIT: I saw on V13 driver schematic you use a diode in front of sense resistors. I dont have a diode on my V12 driver. Why, is it any better?
tnx
Is it ok to use any PC817 opto in V13 board or is there special one?

Also, is R15 27K fixed value?

A


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Hello sorry to bug you val but i didnt get any address yet, also I can be there monday is that ok? my email is [email protected]


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

ok got the address, however I can come only on monday hope thats ok with you


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I assembled my charger and connected. Huh? Arduino started good, precharge worked ok, BUT!!!
Charger said it cant find battery or wrong connection??!!!

i tried 
1. Polarity was good
2. battery connected
3. I checked output diode with 12V and a bulb, it is ok!
4. I changed A7520 comparator, but it is still the same.

What could it be? I changed driver and 15V supply already.

TNX

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> I assembled my charger and connected. Huh? Arduino started good, precharge worked ok, BUT!!!
> Charger said it cant find battery or wrong connection??!!!
> 
> i tried
> ...


Ahm... i feel bad, actually i just had to replace 3pin connector. I guess it was some broken pin and control board didnt get voltage reference from driver.
I am charging now 1phase slowly at 15A. Later i will ramp up.
I noticed though that my cap bank is not enough. Above 12A output it starts to make noises and input voltage goes down to 288VDC. I will add 4 more caps to make 4000uF bank up to 900V. That should cover power demand.

EDIT: for now i just removed 900V caps and put in the old 7200uF 400V stuff. It works now and all... BUT! i have some problems with precharge. Since i calculated for 600VDC my resistors are now 470R. But this is for 3phase. From 1phase it now takes at least 20s to fill the cap bank. 
Valery can you steer me in software where i can change first 5s start delay? I would rather have 10s, but i cant find reference in code.

tnx

A


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## Andilux (Mar 16, 2014)

Dear Arber !

Valery said you have made your Charger to a three Phase System. Does it Work ? Best regards, Andreas


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Andilux said:


> Dear Arber !
> 
> Valery said you have made your Charger to a three Phase System. Does it Work ? Best regards, Andreas


I am still at it. When i first connected 3phase it worked. Then i charged at 6kW (42A) without a sound . Well for 30minutes at least, then fuses went and i guess IGBT blew. I had to replace driver and psu too. For now i keep at 1phase untill i get another charger working. Then i will try again.
Also i am checking possible isolation as two switch 20kHz forward converter...
We ll see how it goes.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> His input voltage is 400V 3-phase which produces rectified voltage close to 600V. Too close to a voltage rating of 600V IGBTs. Good practice is to keep below 90% (better even 80%) of the voltage ratings AFTER you account for spikes / higher-than-normal input voltage (up to 10% is allowed in AC mains in the US...) / etc.



Valery can you steer me in software where i can change first 5s start delay? Or second 10s power-on delay. I cant find reference in code.

EDIT: Thats ok, i found it and set it from 5 to 15s forced config delay. That way my caps are at 285VDC when charger main timeout starts.

if(forceConfig==0) {
forceConfig=BtnTimeout(15, 5); 

tnx

A


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## Andilux (Mar 16, 2014)

Dear Alber !

When I made it whith two Phases ( only 7 KW max ) than we have about 390 V. So I can check it on a 3 Phase 32 A, so it must work whith max 14 KW ?
Its not the Solution, I want to do it whith 3 Phase and max 11 KW. Its the Plug there be around everywhere. 

Best regards, Andreas


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Hello its Patrick I just got here to your shop and no one is here, I drove up from Vegas and I just wanna pick up the charger


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Andilux said:


> Dear Alber !
> 
> When I made it whith two Phases ( only 7 KW max ) than we have about 390 V. So I can check it on a 3 Phase 32 A, so it must work whith max 14 KW ?
> Its not the Solution, I want to do it whith 3 Phase and max 11 KW. Its the Plug there be around everywhere.
> ...


That is a good idea, hm maybe i will wire it like you. I use 3phase bridge, so it shouldnt be a problem. I could just disconnect third phase . It would give me 380VDC though, have to watch out! But that would mean i can use 600V IGBT and all components as they are . Yes i think it would charge at 7,6kW but my experience showed my cooling is effective up to 6kW.
EDIT: On the other hand i made some calcs and it looks like DC voltage will be 550V so again my 400V cap bank wont handle so much. Back to 3phase...


Well i think the mennekes plug is normal type II in EU. But it shouldnt be a problem to use just 2 phases from it.

Charger goes up to 70A and to 12kW if you have enough battery voltage.

I will try my charger at 3phase again when i get (or make) a replacement in case something goes wrong.

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi started repairing my charger ... im only waiting on my new igbts to finish it up ... didn't see any bad welds or shorts anywhere on either the power boards or voltage doubler board . I will however change my ac0 input to the same side on the doubler board as my 120/240 volt shared input line ... Im wondering if this could be the culprit in my blown igbt ?? I cant figure out anything else ? when it did blow I was verifying dc output with 2 lights in series 1x 100 watt bulb and 1 x 60 watt buld . I was using 120 volt input ... 

anyway onto other questions ... what can I shut off on the charger to completely disconnect the charger and all outputs to the battery pack . meaning what can I disconnect that will for sure stop charging my batteries if something occurs . I will be using a jld404 as a safety voltage measuring device to stop the charger . I know I could just cut the contact where the bms connects . but this does not shut power if igbt blows ? or does it ? ... can an igbt blow after charger works fine from vibrations ect and goes overvoltage to the battery pack ?? the other option I see is installing 70 amp contactor on both input lines of the charger ? and using a 120 volt input to the coil passing through the jld404 contact ??


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## Andilux (Mar 16, 2014)

Dear Arber !

Thanks for Infos. I think if you make 550 V DC on Power Board, the Capacitors are blown away....
I have the Problem to load the Firmware from Valerys Homepage into my Arduino board. I Need a firmware which is working. Connect is OK, when I make a Test whih the blink - the Board is blinking. 

Can somebody helps ?
Thanks and best regards, Andreas


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Hi started repairing my charger ... im only waiting on my new igbts to finish it up ... didn't see any bad welds or shorts anywhere on either the power boards or voltage doubler board . I will however change my ac0 input to the same side on the doubler board as my 120/240 volt shared input line ... Im wondering if this could be the culprit in my blown igbt ?? I cant figure out anything else ? when it did blow I was verifying dc output with 2 lights in series 1x 100 watt bulb and 1 x 60 watt buld . I was using 120 volt input ...
> 
> anyway onto other questions ... what can I shut off on the charger to completely disconnect the charger and all outputs to the battery pack . meaning what can I disconnect that will for sure stop charging my batteries if something occurs . I will be using a jld404 as a safety voltage measuring device to stop the charger . I know I could just cut the contact where the bms connects . but this does not shut power if igbt blows ? or does it ? ... can an igbt blow after charger works fine from vibrations ect and goes overvoltage to the battery pack ?? the other option I see is installing 70 amp contactor on both input lines of the charger ? and using a 120 volt input to the coil passing through the jld404 contact ??


Good to hear you are progressing.
For charger disconnect i use 400VAC 20A 3phase AC contactor (it is small) with precharge resistors. I cut only phase line, neutral is not neccessary. Here my BMS can disconnect charger completely. Though i wouldnt want this to happen at power. I set it up to disconnect it trough software. AC contactors are less likely to weld under power than DC. IF something would happen to IGBT disconnect of input power would in effect kill power to battery. As a matter of fact it happened before and my fuses quickly shorted and prevented more damage to charger. Also i use fast 120A diode on + output to prevent battery reaching the output caps .

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Andilux said:


> Dear Arber !
> 
> Thanks for Infos. I think if you make 550 V DC on Power Board, the Capacitors are blown away....
> I have the Problem to load the Firmware from Valerys Homepage into my Arduino board. I Need a firmware which is working. Connect is OK, when I make a Test whih the blink - the Board is blinking.
> ...


That could happen if you have wrong arduino version. Try using Arduino Version 0.22. Other versions dont work. Check discussion after post: #1049.


A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Andilux said:


> Dear Arber !
> 
> Thanks for Infos. I think if you make 550 V DC on Power Board, the Capacitors are blown away....
> I have the Problem to load the Firmware from Valerys Homepage into my Arduino board. I Need a firmware which is working. Connect is OK, when I make a Test whih the blink - the Board is blinking.
> ...



As stated by arber check the posts a few pages back i had some problems with that as well ... What version charger do you have ? Pfc ? Non pfc ? Did you set your switches right in the arduino program and as stated what version of arduino program are you using ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Good to hear you are progressing.
> For charger disconnect i use 400VAC 20A 3phase AC contactor (it is small) with precharge resistors. I cut only phase line, neutral is not neccessary. Here my BMS can disconnect charger completely. Though i wouldnt want this to happen at power. I set it up to disconnect it trough software. AC contactors are less likely to weld under power than DC. IF something would happen to IGBT disconnect of input power would in effect kill power to battery. As a matter of fact it happened before and my fuses quickly shorted and prevented more damage to charger. Also i use fast 120A diode on + output to prevent battery reaching the output caps .
> 
> A


Why would you use precharge resistors on an ac contact ? 20 amps isnt that under rated ? .... 

As for your diode on battery + i like that idea a lot !!!! Fuses where did you put fuses to protect igbt ect ??


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Why would you use precharge resistors on an ac contact ? 20 amps isnt that under rated ? ....
> 
> As for your diode on battery + i like that idea a lot !!!! Fuses where did you put fuses to protect igbt ect ??


Yes i use precharge 470R 50W on each Line (L1, L2, L3). Reason is, it works  besides it is easier to precharge on HVAC than DC voltage after input bridge. For DC it has to be a lot bigger contactor anyways and i dont have enough room... http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/02032014069.jpg
But that is 20A on each leg that means 20A x 400VAC x sqrt3 3phase input  13kW! There is also one relay that throws contactor when arduino opens precharge port.
I changed setup delay from 5s to 15s so my caps reach 285VDC in time. Mind you i use three resistors on threephase bridge, so on single phase both act like 850R, so precharge is slower. On threephase the precharge time is the same.

Automatic 20A fuses are on the wallbox also GFIC. Besides every charging station here has at least 16A fuses. So your cables are protected.

A


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## Andilux (Mar 16, 2014)

Dear Crackerjackz 

I have the latest Version from E Motorwerks as a PFC Charger. The Arduino Versoin is 0022 ? I tried to take the Firmware from E Motorwerk Homepage, but I cannot load it to the board. If you have an emailadress, i can send you the Screenshot.

Best regards Andreas


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Send me the screenshot to [email protected] ... Did you take your arduino program from the emw site ? Also you must not update when you open it and asks to update ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Today i found the code that sets IGBT frequency. It was set at 50us and as calculated 1/50us = 20kHt.
I noticed that my new IGBT is running hot. At only 25A heatsink had 57°C and charger was in temp reduction all the time. Inductor wasnt that hot...
So i changed this to 60us for 16kHz and results were lower temp at 50°C at all times. I guess the 1200V IGBT is really slower than 600V one. 
This is the code:

#define period 60 // us

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Got my new igbts today  ... Wont have time to fiddle with the charger tonight though or the wife is gonna kill me lol ... Updates coming soon ... Ill be sure to film my testing this time so people can see whats going on ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

god I hate desoldering .... such a pain in the ass ... + my desolder sucker screwed up :s ... had to finish by shooting 125 psi of air through the holes to clean them out right after heating them lol .... 

few bits and pieces left to connect like the pwm wires and stuff but everything is back together  ... take two begins tonight !! I sure hope all goes well this time  ... I decided to not do the lightbulb test ... im a skeptic of it since my igbt blew for no darn apparent reason ... all my welds were clean and not touching ... reheated a few just to be 100 % sure ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ok so the testing has rebegun ... gonna need some help here valery ... 

I made a video of my 12 volt power up . your instructions clearly say that the charger should ask you to short the output .... if this does not occur its probrebly because of a bad switch .... 

here is a screenshot of my switch settings ... 
<a href="http://s265.photobucket.com/user/snekecrew/media/screenshotarduino.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii206/snekecrew/screenshotarduino.png" border="0" alt=" photo screenshotarduino.png"/></a>

I am very confident in my switch settings but we never know ... last time I started the charger before things blew if I would short the output and press the green button the calibration would start and ask me to connect batt and then it would display my voltage ect .... this time im not taking any chances ... 

if debugging is needed what should I be looking at ? my voltage sensing is from the + ouput wire of the batterys to vout on the driver board and from the 200k 3 watt resistor on the power board to the vbop on the driver board . I know the a7520 does the voltage reading but what should I verify if anything . thank you ... 

im waiting on my darn cellphone to finish uploading to photobucket ... never uploaded videos before so ill describe what happens in case it doesn't work ....

I put 120 volts ac to 12 volt power supply only !!... 

start the charger

- input lifepo4 type yes 
-350 volts cv
-30 cell count 
-100 ah 
charger says: discharge output 
( now at 0 v )
press btn

I press the green button 

charger says: calibrated zero 

then switches screen and says : connect batt. btn to skip


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

... Anyone had this issue ? Any help appreciated ....

I truly dislike having to look through schematics for a pfc unit when I don't have a pfc unit ... debugging is just a ridiculous waste of time figuring what I do and don't use .... something has to be done with the schematics / instructions for non pfc units valery ... seriously its complet bullshit ... I got an email from you 2 days ago saying you were gonna answer my questions that night .... ?? nothing ... and today I got a reply that you sent to someone else at 3:30 to help fix there charger .the reason I got it is because I was on his email list because I helped him through the programming and arduino issues ... I was glad to do so . as I mentioned before if you can start helping me so I can get this darn thing done and over with ill be glad to update your instructions with all my proper pics and texts but I aint gonna do so until I can get this thing up and running properly for obvious reasons ! 

Did I say I HATE looking at schematics with a whole bunch of useless parts for my build ... it gets VERY confusing !!!


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

im going to post every damn thing I do because im pissed off because even the schematics are wrong !!!!!!!!!!! 


driver board v13.0

schematics say d 2 is a 600 volt rectifier ... pcb files say its a 400 volt rectifier ... in reality ... its a diode ... the voltage I don't give a crap because I don't wanna waste even more time .

pcb file says r9 1m ohm resistor r10 1.2 m ohm resistor in series with each other then in series to the output cathode side of d2 . surprise there are no r9 resistors in the schematic files !! do ctrl f and search for yourselves  ... there is however a r11 which shouldn't be there that is there ... know is this the right r11 that should be r9 or a new r11 that isn't relevent ... this is the kind of bullshit that makes so much loss of time its ridiculous ! 

gonna figure that shit part out and ill be back with more great news im sure ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so ive been checking every resistor / component on the driver board to verify if maybe I have a short circuit somewhere making that the charger does not ask me to short the output on startup which supposedly would maybe be a switch programming issue bit since I haven't gotten a reply im trying to find a short because that's the only option I can come up with or a reversed or bad component ... 

pc817 all is good verified datasheets to make 100 % orientation was good . but now theres two things I don't get ...I thought that the two wires coming from the power board were for the voltage sensing ... vbop and vout ... this is false ?? vout goes to the + in of the a 7520 chip which is a current sensing ic ?? I thought the acs758 chip on the power board was the current sensing chip ?? ... then the vbop wire from the + side of the battery goes through a bunch of diodes and caps and resistors then goes to the pc817 chip which is the linear voltage sensing ... so im guessing vbop is the actual voltage sensing wire . what is its ground reference to the battery ? 

were is the vout wire suppose to be connected to on the power board ?? I have it currently soldered onto the + battery on the diode bridge under the power board . its welded onto the battery side meaning I get battery voltage on that wire as soon as one is connected . instructions says it would be for voltage sensing ... I don't get it since it goes to a current sensing chip ? ... the vbop wire which is to on the left of a 200 k 3 watt resistor (r45 ) on the power board that goes to the pc817 chip which is a voltage sensing chip ... so what the hell is going on ? why does my charger think my output is shorted ......


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so ive been checking every resistor / component on the driver board to verify if maybe I have a short circuit somewhere making that the charger does not ask me to short the output on startup which supposedly would maybe be a switch programming issue bit since I haven't gotten a reply im trying to find a short because that's the only option I can come up with or a reversed or bad component ... 

pc817 all is good verified datasheets to make 100 % orientation was good . but now theres two things I don't get ...I thought that the two wires coming from the power board were for the voltage sensing ... vbop and vout ... this is false ?? vout goes to the + in of the a 7520 chip which is a current sensing ic ?? I thought the acs758 chip on the power board was the current sensing chip ?? ... then the vbop wire from the + side of the battery goes through a bunch of diodes and caps and resistors then goes to the pc817 chip which is the linear voltage sensing ... so im guessing vbop is the actual voltage sensing wire . what is its ground reference to the battery ? 

were is the vout wire suppose to be connected to on the power board ?? I have it currently soldered onto the + battery on the diode bridge under the power board . its welded onto the battery side meaning I get battery voltage on that wire as soon as one is connected . instructions says it would be for voltage sensing ... I don't get it since it goes to a current sensing chip ? ... the vbop wire which is to on the left of a 200 k 3 watt resistor (r45 ) on the power board that goes to the pc817 chip which is a voltage sensing chip ... so what the hell is going on ? why does my charger think my output is shorted ......


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so upon further checking ive realised that the pc817 chip is a millivolt sensing chip which I don't understand because its rated to 5000 volts ?? and the a 7520 would be the volt sensing chip ... how ? no clue since its a current sensing chip initially . im guessing with resistors making it into a voltage chip is possible ? 

any from there I can see they go the the universal control board ... im gonna try to run the charger without the voltage checking wires to the driver board to see if all runs well if so ill know the problem is with the driver board not the control board ... which I hope because the control board is a pain to take off  ... 

im getting to like these one way conversations ...  ... if valery is lucky I just might get his thread to 2000 posts by tonight ... well by tomorrow night maybe lol ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

just finished my little test procedure ... didn't show much of anything lol . 

except after putting the ah of the battery instead of saying 

output voltage now 0 v 

calibrated 0 

connect battery then press btn 

it did 

output voltage now -30 volts 

calibrated 0 

connect battery then press btn 

....

...

scratching my head on this one ... 


.....


......


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so to the universal power board ... 

a5 input on the arduino is the mv sensing 

and a1 is the voltage sensing ... verified that all resistors relevant to this were in place ... im hesistating taking it off the charger to look for bad welds as ive already checked these for welds or I wouldn't have put it on if I wasn't sure of m welds ... starting to truly wonder about the damn programming ...


head scratching......



......



wife calls ..... 

.... looks like she wants to cheer me up from my pissed off charger mood lol ... cya 

......


tomorrow is another night .... 

im gonna start making this thread my charger building diary lol


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> ok so to the universal power board ...
> 
> a5 input on the arduino is the mv sensing
> 
> ...


HUH. I read your posting and i got concerned, since i intend to order some PCBs from Valery. But if V13 doesnt work what is the point. Rather i could copy V12 board and draw it in designspark...

Ok i think i know the problem. I met it myself . 

1. Check your output diode if it has correct orientation. If not Vout wire could show 0V which could cause your charger to demand battery. You did connect battery to charger like it asked you did you?

2. Check Vbop line from wire input to the reference chip. Read your resistors,then check if that joint resistance correspond to your program. here is the line:
//--------- mains voltage 
#ifdef PFCdirect
const float upperR0_mV=2400.; // 2.4M in PFC direct units to extend sensing to 420V
#else
const float upperR0_mV=2000.; // 2M in regular units

Now check your Vout line resistance and compare to software:

//--------- battery voltage 
#ifdef PFCdirect
const float upperR0_bV=2400.; // 2.4M in PFC direct units to extend sensing to 420V
#else
const float upperR0_bV=2000.; // 2M in regular units

If your resistance is different then correct this in software and check charger response. I actually changed my Vbop line resistance to 4M to get higher voltage reference for 600V input.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I have a difficulty grasping something in your design in V13 Driver board. Please if you can find the time check this for me. I will buy two sets of NonPFC PCBs and they will come with V13 driver i imagine.

Vbop line is rough voltage measurement as it seems. According to sch file you are using one diode, 200K resistor and a small cap to read mV with PC817 chip. 
I noticed there is another resistor pair from the diode to GND - 2M joint resistance. But this also leads to (in nonPFC nonexistant) PFC correction chip. Do we connect this resistor pair in NonPFC units and how does this divider reflect in your software for NonPFC?

tnx

Arber


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From what your saying your talking about r9 and r10 in pcb files and r10 and r11 ( which is wrong its a double number ) in the schematics files

Both are 1 m ohm resistors in series . From my understanding it brings down the voltage to millivolts for the pc817 chip to read ...


----------



## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> HUH. I read your posting and i got concerned, since i intend to order some PCBs from Valery. But if V13 doesnt work what is the point. Rather i could copy V12 board and draw it in designspark...
> 
> Ok i think i know the problem. I met it myself .
> 
> ...



Thanks arber for your reply ill look into it tonight although i doubt that would be it ... Doesnt hurt to verify since im clueless 


My problem is after setting the battery parameters the charger does not ask me to short the output . It just automaticàly says calibrated 0 for half a second then says connect battery then press btn ... Valerys instructions absolutely say the charger should ask to short the output or debug ... Which debug is what im doing ... 

When i short the output without it asking and press the green button it does go in calibration and the right voltage or near is displayed when i connect my 50 volt battery 


My issue is i dont want to risk another igbt since the charger does not ask me to short the output :s ...


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> From what your saying your talking about r9 and r10 in pcb files and r10 and r11 ( which is wrong its a double number ) in the schematics files
> 
> Both are 1 m ohm resistors in series . From my understanding it brings down the voltage to millivolts for the pc817 chip to read ...


Yes but i dont understand how this is applicable towards GND side, since Vout is using 2M as series resistance. Then how does PC817 measure mV? Is it as an ammeter? Hm... But why 2M on the underside if i dont use PFC chip?

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

#define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
// #define A7520_mV // using A7520 optoisolation for mV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
#define PC817 // mains voltage sensing based on a crude regular opto (V13 boards)


arduino programming ... 

according to the programming .... a 7520 is for outv sensing meaning the battery voltage reading .... 

the pc817 chip would be to read the main line voltage ... probrebly for the 1.5 k watt 120 volt reading and so forth ... 

that means the millivolts are not being read by the pc817 chip ... !!

so technically the a 7520 would also be used for the millivolt sensing ?? so it should be uncommented not commented as the missing instructions would be technically saying ?? 

but then that means that the mv wire going from the arduino to the pc817 chip is wrong ?? as it says mv for millivolts when in fact it would actually be reading line voltage ?? 

lol obviously something in this v 13 board doesn't make sense ....


valery you never answered me when a few pages back I asked you if you had a functional non pfc unit with a v.13 driver board ... im seriously starting to doubt ... ??


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> #define A7520_V // using A7520 optoisolation for outV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
> // #define A7520_mV // using A7520 optoisolation for mV sensing? (as opposed to ISO124)
> #define PC817 // mains voltage sensing based on a crude regular opto (V13 boards)
> 
> ...


Well #define A7520_mV should be commented out since it is mV voltage PFC unit needs. From the look of the V13 driver board and schematic this driver board is made for PFC unit. I too would like to know if it works with NonPFC unit.
Maybe there is some mod to make the board function?

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> The V13 driver board receives 5V from the controller board. You can see a pin marked "+5 out" on the 6 pin header above the green button on the control board, and a "+5 in" pin on the 6 pin header on the upper right of the driver board.


crackerjackz
I saw this post. I guess you need +5V in to operate driver sensing. On schematic it clearly powers Vin sensing opto. Can you tell me if you have it connected?

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Yes i have + 5 volts connected from control board .... 

Everything works . If i connect battery the battery voltage is displayed ect ... I am just never asked to short output . I think theres a programming issue or hardware issue with non pfc v13 driver boards ....


Id really like valery to show up in this thread any moment now :s ..... .....


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery can you steer me in software where i can change first 5s start delay? I would rather have 10s, but i cant find reference in code.
> A


Search for 'forceConfig=BtnTimeout(5, 7);' line. Should be around line 800. '5' is the number of seconds to wait for button press


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Hi started repairing my charger ... im only waiting on my new igbts to finish it up ... didn't see any bad welds or shorts anywhere on either the power boards or voltage doubler board . I will however change my ac0 input to the same side on the doubler board as my 120/240 volt shared input line ... Im wondering if this could be the culprit in my blown igbt ?? I cant figure out anything else ? when it did blow I was verifying dc output with 2 lights in series 1x 100 watt bulb and 1 x 60 watt buld . I was using 120 volt input ...
> 
> anyway onto other questions ... what can I shut off on the charger to completely disconnect the charger and all outputs to the battery pack . meaning what can I disconnect that will for sure stop charging my batteries if something occurs . I will be using a jld404 as a safety voltage measuring device to stop the charger . I know I could just cut the contact where the bms connects . but this does not shut power if igbt blows ? or does it ? ... can an igbt blow after charger works fine from vibrations ect and goes overvoltage to the battery pack ?? the other option I see is installing 70 amp contactor on both input lines of the charger ? and using a 120 volt input to the coil passing through the jld404 contact ??


You should fuse the input or output of the charger or use a breaker on input AC line. If the output IGBT blows, this will force very high current draw from the AC line to battery and will either blow the fuse or trip the breaker


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Today i found the code that sets IGBT frequency. It was set at 50us and as calculated 1/50us = 20kHt.
> I noticed that my new IGBT is running hot. At only 25A heatsink had 57°C and charger was in temp reduction all the time. Inductor wasnt that hot...
> So i changed this to 60us for 16kHz and results were lower temp at 50°C at all times. I guess the 1200V IGBT is really slower than 600V one.
> This is the code:
> ...


great! yes, 1200V devices are slower, especially the older generations. Careful with lowering the frequency too much - the output current ripple goes up as you lower frequency. If you go too far in frequency reduction, you may saturate the inductor, overheat your caps, or overcurrent your IGBT. Best to check via a scope connected to a current sensor inline with the inductor. Normally you should see a linear sawtooth waveform for the inductor current. Saturation shows as curving up of the upslope current ramp. Generally, you don't want the slope of that upward part to increase more than 2x from the bottom of the sawtooth waveform to the top.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Ok so the testing has rebegun ... gonna need some help here valery ...
> 
> I made a video of my 12 volt power up . your instructions clearly say that the charger should ask you to short the output .... if this does not occur its probrebly because of a bad switch ....
> 
> ...


we changed the language from 'short the output' to 'discharge the output' as a few people have attempted to short the output with the battery connected... with some spectacular results, of course. So this sequence you describe above seems normal


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> pc817 all is good verified datasheets to make 100 % orientation was good . but now theres two things I don't get ...I thought that the two wires coming from the power board were for the voltage sensing ... vbop and vout ... this is false ?? vout goes to the + in of the a 7520 chip which is a current sensing ic ?? I thought the acs758 chip on the power board was the current sensing chip ?? ... then the vbop wire from the + side of the battery goes through a bunch of diodes and caps and resistors then goes to the pc817 chip which is the linear voltage sensing ... so im guessing vbop is the actual voltage sensing wire . what is its ground reference to the battery ?
> 
> were is the vout wire suppose to be connected to on the power board ?? I have it currently soldered onto the + battery on the diode bridge under the power board . its welded onto the battery side meaning I get battery voltage on that wire as soon as one is connected . instructions says it would be for voltage sensing ... I don't get it since it goes to a current sensing chip ? ... the vbop wire which is to on the left of a 200 k 3 watt resistor (r45 ) on the power board that goes to the pc817 chip which is a voltage sensing chip ... so what the hell is going on ? why does my charger think my output is shorted ......


A7520 is for battery voltage sensing
PC817 - for input voltage sensing after the input bridge
current sensing chip is on power board and is directly connected to the control board. there are no driver board components participating in current sensing in any way

why do you think your charger thinks the output is shorted? I could not see that from what you posted...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> ok so upon further checking ive realised that the pc817 chip is a millivolt sensing chip which I don't understand because its rated to 5000 volts ?? and the a 7520 would be the volt sensing chip ... how ? no clue since its a current sensing chip initially . im guessing with resistors making it into a voltage chip is possible ?
> 
> any from there I can see they go the the universal control board ... im gonna try to run the charger without the voltage checking wires to the driver board to see if all runs well if so ill know the problem is with the driver board not the control board ... which I hope because the control board is a pain to take off  ...
> 
> im getting to like these one way conversations ...  ... if valery is lucky I just might get his thread to 2000 posts by tonight ... well by tomorrow night maybe lol ...


PC817 is an analog optocoupler. It transfers input current into output current. We use it as a voltage sensor by running input voltage through a known resistor value (200k) and transferring that current onto the other side. On that other side, there is a resistor to +5V which translates the current back into voltage. That voltage is read by Arduino. 

A7520 is an analog precision opto-amplifier. It translates input voltage into output voltage. It takes input voltage range from ~-0.25 to +0.25V and translates into 0-4V range on the output. You can see all this in a datasheet. We use a resistor divider to bring the output voltage of the charger into that -0.25 to +0.25 range of the chip. The output is a scaled voltage that Arduino can accept.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

So your saying when the charger says output voltage now 0 volts press any btn that its actually saying short the output except you changed the terminology ?? .... Wtf wouldnt this be in the instructions !! Do you have any idea how many hours i uselessly lost !!? .... 

... Fail ... Utter fail ... 

The good news is then my charger is fine and i can begin power testing


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I have a difficulty grasping something in your design in V13 Driver board. Please if you can find the time check this for me. I will buy two sets of NonPFC PCBs and they will come with V13 driver i imagine.
> 
> ...


[just repeating my email response so others see it, as well]

for non-PFC, no need in the 2M divider from Vbop. Unused in V13.

We have ~40 V13s out there to date - ~half as fully built units, half as kits. 

The only end-user differences from the V12 are:

1. you need to connect +5v between driver and control board. this is already in the instructions

2. you *may* need to calibrate your input voltage sensing manually. this is due to production spread of current transfer ratios in PC817. Note that your charger will work even without this calibration. The only potential effect from uncalibrated input voltage sensing could be erroneous 120V input detection which will force limitation of output power. If you encounter this in your build (when connected to 240V), you will need to calibrate manually by editing firmware threshold. I believe the procedure is now described in the manual. But anyway, here it is: 'measure mV terminal voltage on driver board when 120V is connected. then measure same when 240V is connected. let's say you get V1 and V2 measurements. then edit firmware line ~1450 ( if(5-mV > 2.) return 240 to place (5-(V1+V2)/2) instead of '2.'. For example, if you read V1=4.5V, V2=2V (typical), you would put (5-(4.5+2)/2)=1.75 instead of 2. into the firmware. 

But again, most likely you won't need to do #2 calibration.

Hope this helps.

thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> So your saying when the charger says output voltage now 0 volts press any btn that its actually saying short the output except you changed the terminology ?? .... Wtf wouldnt this be in the instructions !! Do you have any idea how many hours i uselessly lost !!? ....
> 
> ... Fail ... Utter fail ...
> 
> The good news is then my charger is fine and i can begin power testing


it says 'discharge output'. I think most people would interpret this as an instruction to do exactly that... I'm not sure how we could say this better. Maybe you have some ideas


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> it says 'discharge output'. I think most people would interpret this as an instruction to do exactly that... I'm not sure how we could say this better. Maybe you have some ideas


Also, I would suggest not to complicate your debugging by changing firmware from a known working version for your unit (as you apparently did since you are getting a different instruction wording from your charger now). I would advise to solve one problem at a time, keeping everything else the same. Once you solve the problem, you make further small adjustments and check operation after every change. Making numerous changes across subsystems at the same time is asking for trouble...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

patrick1 said:


> Hello its Patrick I just got here to your shop and no one is here, I drove up from Vegas and I just wanna pick up the charger


just to close this off - we have connected with Patrick and he picked up both his kit and a new fully assembled charger that he would be using as hit build reference, as well. I will let him add any details he would feel comfortable adding. 

V


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Actually saying discharge output is fine but the instructions should keep with your changes !! This is what i have problems with ... 

Your instructions c'early state if your charger does not ask you to short the ouput something is wrong time to debug ...

Id still be pissed but id be a fool to do so since you so well described how the pc817 / a 7520 ect function ... Plus it means my charger is good to go to the power testing phase . 

But you still need to fix your schematics ... R9 in driver board is wrongly identified as r11 which is wrong and r11 is already used somewhere else to the left of r10 ... 

Il say it again i think your a genius but your instructions suck lol !! 

On that thanks for your answers its much appreciated . Ill finish my testing tonight ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so things aren't looking good once again lol ... not sure if I wanna laugh or cry now but anyway here goes ... 

12 volt testing was good . 

control board and driver board voltage testing was fine . meaning the input voltage testing was good and the output voltage testing as well . heres where things go wrong ... 

since I had had very bad experiences with the lightbulb test I skipped it . I connected a 5 kilowatt 600 volt water tank heater element which I had here for the farm anyway ... I connected the heater to the output of the charger and connected the ac line ... nothing no screen ect ... realised I hadn't put the ac power cord back on the 12 volt laptop power supply . unplugged the charger from the wall 120 ac and connected the power supply 120 volt lines to the charger... the screen went live as well as fans but quickly went back out probrebly from empyting the capacitors . no biggy I figured. so I then connected the ac to the main charger inputs once more ... 

my lights in my room flicker and the charger does a dreaded click sound ... I unplugged immediately . tested igbt with wires on pin 3 disconnected and its 0.0 ohms between pins 3 and 2 ... so another blown igbt ... FY*(?&(?&? . put 120 volts back onto the 12 volt power supply only ... screen goes live ... I end up seeing that the input max current was at 110 amps wtf .... 


first off could having powered the charger without powering the 12 volt power supply have caused the charger to go full on ? or even on at all ? secondly what the hell is happening for the charger to start outputting power without having even had time to start up the screen ? and 3 but not least isn't the charger suppose to limit input power to 1.5 kw on 120 volt mains ? ... so even if it was written 110 amps this could not happen from my 120 volt wall outlet ? 

my mains voltage sensing works I know this because y readings on screen read 120 volts when running to test the duty cycle to 95.7 ..

anyway that's once again were I am now ... wondering what the hell to do next . I have a last spare igbt and dc dc and a7520 chip although these all seem fine except for igbt ... upon testing dcdc I found a bad weld on the underside of board on the - side giving me -8 to comm to the pcb while on the components side slipping a fine piece of wire I get - 15 volts to com ... could this have caused such a fast igbt fail ? + 15 volt to com is good . I don't think anything but igbt is blown ... 

valery I had already looked over all my welds and even tested most of them with my tester from lead to underside of pcb ... what am I to do now ? I already ordered myself a new igbt but ive blown enough ... no more blowing igbts ! please help :s ... my new igbts are exactly the same part numbers as the originals you gave me except off ebay from china ... 

I already verified my welds on the a3120v chip and they are all good ... I get ground were needed and no shorts between pins except for the two ground plains one next to each other ( from my counting pins 3 and 4 ) and the two center pins going to the buck resistor ( pins 6 and 7 ).

heres my learning newbie igbt user question. my understanding is that the igbt controls all voltage and current leaving the charger ... the way it does this is with the two inputs ( pins 4 and 5 ) ( we short 6 and 7 together so the inductor is always in parallel with the battery output ? if im wrong please explain as im not 100% sure what the inductor is there for ??? ) . if you power the charger and have nothing connected to pins 4 and 5 of the igbt then nothing happens no output occurs or full power occurs ?? I get that the a 3120 chip controls the igbt but what coukd cause it to go full on if not the chip itself being badly welded ? could the input of this chip be shorted or x cause the chip to think it has to go full on ? is full on to much for the igbt hense why it blows ?? 

lots of questions but I want to understand this to get what the hell is going on and why im having so many issues  

 today is a sad and bad day .... .... ... r.i.p dead igbt ...

any helped appreciated as always ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Crackerjackz
You do use a precharge circuit dont you? Otherwise i dont imagine why your fuses werent blown when you connected without control unit. The way this works is to prevent exposing your power circuit to full mains voltage before caps fill up. Then it doesnt matter if your IGBT is in action or not, since voltages are equalised and you have diode on the output. 
BUT again i say handle IGBTs with care, it is not uncommon for the G&E contacts to fail when you touch them with bare hands. Use some metalic parts that are grounded, to discharge static from your body(i use my house radiators). Or better use faston connectors with plastic covering to protect contacts. When you are ready just pull fastons from GE and install your driver board, works for me. 

Hm maybe you should use 2x small (TO247 size) IGBTs and connect them to your power board instead of one big module. The stuff is the same, but less expensive $6/pc. Untill you find out if it works...

http://si.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stgw40n120kd/igbt-1200v-80a-240w-to247/dp/2344080

I intend to make very small 3,5kW unit using one small 80A igbt + one soft diode. That should keep the weight and size down. Inductor i will have to wire myself there is no other way if i want to keep the weight/size down.

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It is quite possible that your Chinese IGBTs from eBay are counterfeit, as was apparently the case with some Schottky rectifiers someone here had problems with a while back. In that case, I think they copied the markings from something like a 200 amp rectifier, but they probably had a 20 amp unit inside the encapsulation. It would test the same as the genuine article using ohmmeter readings and light loads, but you could tell it was a smaller device when it showed over 1 volt forward drop at 100 amps.

Modern IGBTs and MOSFETs are fairly rugged devices, and normal handling is unlikely to damage the gates, but it is still wise to use caution, especially during the winter (extended now into spring), where the air is dry, and static can be a problem. The gate-emitter terminals should be shorted with a couple turns of bare wire or solder, and it also might be good to attach something like a 10k resistor, and even leave it there when connected to the circuit.

You can fairly easily and safely test an IGBT with a reasonably heavy load, like an automobile headlamp or 12V heater, and use a 12V battery for the supply. Connect the gate to the battery with like a 1k resistor and the lamp should light, and will draw something like 20-30 amps. Read the voltage across the C-E of the IGBT and it should read something like 0.5-1.0 volts. Check the data sheet for more exact numbers. This should be enough to verify that it is not a fake.

The voltage handling capacity is a little trickier, but you can use a DC insulation tester that can apply 500 or 1000 volts at very low current, so even if it breaks down it will do no harm, as it will be acting like a zener and the power will be minimal.

I can imagine that it continues to be frustrating dealing with confusing documentation and possibly defective components, but you should be able to provide protection during initial power-up and testing so that damage will be unlikely. You can put lamps or heaters in series with the AC line to limit current from that source, and you can temporarily use smaller bus capacitors or add fast blow fuses and resistors to limit high current surges from them, until the circuit runs nicely at very low charge levels.

Good luck!


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Thanks for your inputs ... Ill definetly verify my second igbt with a 12 volt battery before installing it ... Ive already emailed the ebay supplier to inform of my possible issue ... 

As for the precharge circuit ???? Unless it comes with the charger non pfc unit i dont have one . I did however install my inrush limiter on my 120 volt line to prevent inrush currents ... But thats it ... 

I made sure yo never touch the small contacts on the igbt with my hands ... As for the 3 big screw pins well besides screwdriver and bolts nothing touched. ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Thanks for your inputs ... Ill definetly verify my second igbt with a 12 volt battery before installing it ... Ive already emailed the ebay supplier to inform of my possible issue ...
> 
> As for the precharge circuit ???? Unless it comes with the charger non pfc unit i dont have one . I did however install my inrush limiter on my 120 volt line to prevent inrush currents ... But thats it ...
> 
> I made sure yo never touch the small contacts on the igbt with my hands ... As for the 3 big screw pins well besides screwdriver and bolts nothing touched. ...


Try to build precharge circuit it is more comfortable than using inrush resistors and control board already has connection for it.
Check post #1655 and previous posts to see how to wire one 12V precharge relay which closes main AC power relay.

http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/12-1.gif or 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-charge

My schematic:








My precharge circuit for 3phase is the same:
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/02032014067.jpg
and 20A 3phase contactor:
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/16032014082.jpg


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

What i dont get is even if the charger goes full on it should never exceed 480 volts .... The igbt can take 600 ... ??? Thats two igbts one for sure good quality and the second to confirm ... I dont get how they could blow if there within thr voltage ratings ... Something mudt be wrong in my power connections ?? Ill take the dust off my scope tonight and give you all some precise numbers .....


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> What i dont get is even if the charger goes full on it should never exceed 480 volts .... The igbt can take 600 ... ??? Thats two igbts one for sure good quality and the second to confirm ... I dont get how they could blow if there within thr voltage ratings ... Something mudt be wrong in my power connections ?? Ill take the dust off my scope tonight and give you all some precise numbers .....


What you can do, and i did it when i burned IGBT, is connect precharge relay and one (edit) 330R or 470R 30W resistor across AC contactor and connect AC to charger without +/- connected to IGBT contacts. Then measure V rise on caps. It should fill up in cca 15s from 0 to 300V(or 180V if you have only 115VAC). That will show your cap/rectifier is wired correctly. Then you go and measure voltage across output diode. You should get your battery voltage from output to negative. 
Well then you use small IGBT and diode (dont forget you used half of doubleIGBT module as diode), you connect accordingly and test at small current. When all is good you go and change to your 200A module!

Also like Valery said i burned IGBT when i used it 3phase at frequency not suited for 300A 1200V brick. Now i am preparing to run smaller IGBT at 16kHz conservatively. We shall see...

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery i found specs for my driver HCPL-3120... It can operate at 600V but its cutting it close. For 3phase operation i found its brother HCPL-J312 that has 1200V operation. 
Would you think it was driver that failed because of voltage spike? 
When i get it i will install this instead and try to charge . Its only €3.

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Valery,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Precharge ... Ill probrebly add this . I already have a 12 volt 30 amp contactor at home im just wondering if the coil is going to take to many watts to energize and kill something on the control board ill test it first ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Precharge ... Ill probrebly add this . I already have a 12 volt 30 amp contactor at home im just wondering if the coil is going to take to many watts to energize and kill something on the control board ill test it first ...


Heavens NO! At that power you would have to use a mosfet on control board and a good snubber diode. No no, i just used existing N2222 transistor and wired small arduino 12V relay module to trigger main AC contactor. That contactor is the one you wire precharge resistor across. 
Here is one arduino relay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-12V-1...al_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item5d4a6a70eb

And on AC contactor example
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250V-Coil...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item2c73867861

Like i said the precharge timer is already defined in software and i just lengtened it to 15s + 10s to get more time to charge caps to 550V at least. 
You can wire your precharge and try it without IGBT. You just take a picture when you are done and set it here fo me to look at it beforehand .

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Lol will do ... I figured the arduino couldnt take much current hense when i said id test it i was gonna check first i hadnt even looked at anything yet . I will however order the two relays you linked ... Already have a 330 ohm 50 watt metal casing resistor so i figured id use that ??

However shouldnt the ac contacter coil be 120-240 ac ?? So as to function even if the charger gets only connected to 120 volts ac ? Unless you use the power after the voltage doubler or some other ????


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Lol will do ... I figured the arduino couldnt take much current hense when i said id test it i was gonna check first i hadnt even looked at anything yet . I will however order the two relays you linked ... Already have a 330 ohm 50 watt metal casing resistor so i figured id use that ??
> 
> However shouldnt the ac contacter coil be 120-240 ac ?? So as to function even if the charger gets only connected to 120 volts ac ? Unless you use the power after the voltage doubler or some other ????


Ahm  yes i would belive so. Iam from EU so we only use 230VAC and 3x120° of those make 400VAC triangle. In your case you should think some more what is your priority 120VAC or 240VAC

EDIT: On the other hand, you could use the same kind of contactor wired for 24VAC!!! You would just connect it to 12VDC source trough 12V small arduino relay. Or you could install one power mosfet and trigger relay directly. Naming is provided in pcb. Check out ebay or just go to some household electricians store. I use some of those relays in my car and they work from 12VDC and the better side is the coil does not heat up so much than straight 12VDC coil (car actualy uses 13,5VDC)...

From my experience, iam now using single phase from only halfbridge. That is similar as your 120VAC fullbridge and i must say fuses trip often and charger chatters when over 10A output... so i simply dont charge other than from 3phase (halfbridge that is...).

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

we haven't had any failures from lack of relay-based precharge. as long as you use those pre-charge resistors and they are allowed to cool between connections (~1-2 minutes), you should be fine. Especially at 120VAC.

Re your question on why the 600V IGBT would fail at 120V input: the 'click' sound you hear indicates (most likely) a high-current spike through IGBT. With the charger output not plugged into the battery, such a spike can only be caused by your output capacitors getting connected to the input through the IGBT that for some reason got turned full on. At that initial moment, IGBT basically shorts the input caps and promptly blows up. 

Likely reason for IGBT to turn on CAN be the absence of 12V supply. It can also be absence of 10k resistor between Gate and Emitter terminals (I believe it's R1 on the power board). What happens in these cases is this: as the input voltage rises (on IGBT's collector), the Gate voltage rises, as well - due to presence of a so-called Miller capacitance (C_CG on the first page of https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infin...90004&fileId=db3a304412b407950112b40ed1711291, for example). At some point, Gate voltage exceeds the IGBT turn-on voltage and you get a full-on situation. 

The severity of this event / probability of failure depends on the capacitance of the particular IGBT you use, the rate of voltage rise on the collector, and output capacitance you end up shorting into. Generally speaking, higher ratio of C_CG / C_GE, higher input voltage, lower input capacitance (to a degree), and higher output capacitance are all making situation worse.

But if you have a 5-10k resistor between G and E and you have 12V present at the time of voltage rise, nothing should happen. 

Hope this helps. 
Valery.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> we haven't had any failures from lack of relay-based precharge. as long as you use those pre-charge resistors and they are allowed to cool between connections (~1-2 minutes), you should be fine. Especially at 120VAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Helps probrebly more than you think ... I really failed on the 12 volt power supply  ... So basically a igbt in its normal state is full on hense why with the control board not powered up the igbt goes full on ? ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I toke off my igbt tonight . I was expecting to have 0 ohms between bolts 3 and 2 of the igbt like last time it blew but this wasn't the case ? I have 1.585 megaohms with positive on 3 neg on 2 and 0.373 megaohms with pos on 2 and neg on 3 . ... 1.47 mega ohms between 1 and 2 pos on 1 neg on 2 and 0.375 mega ohms neg on 1 and pos on 2 .... 

not the numbers I expected .... three days ago I had a clear 0 ohms between 3 and 2 ... head scratching ... im gonna try 12 volt testing like I was recommended ill post results in an edit of this thread when im done ...


just tested my doubler board to make sure everything was good with that ... with 120 volts applied after a few seconds I get a stable 330 volts dc ... 0 volts ac ... so im guessing that's right on ... I put my voltmeter on the out + and out - of the doubler board where the 12 volt power supply gets connected to ... but that led me to wonder how the hell the 12 volt power supply works ?? ... I does work but I don't get how since I get 330 volts dc and 0 ac ... its a 120 - 240 volt ac power supply .. ? im guessing it just does work on dc since all it is is a bunch of capacitors and diodes ... it just has to work less hard to correct the waveform ? yes I was smart and discharged the caps after using a 10 watt 330 ohm resistor  lol ... 


gonna need help on testing the igbt  ... ive never used an igbt before and honestly cant get my head completely around it ... http://www.semikron.com/products/data/cur/assets/SKM145GB066D_22890045.pdf this is my igbt 

and this is a video that someone made on how to test an igbt ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDaBLufCREk

from the datasheets I just realized that bolt one is common to bolt 2 and 3 ... does that mean its the emitter ( negative ) ? I just don't know where to put my positive and negative wires and which pin to touch ( 4 or 5 ) to then turn the light on or off ... im thinking bolt 1 is my emitter and bolt 2 and 3 are positives ? and pin 4 is my gate ? ... any help appreciated obviously I think pstech paul suggested a 1 k resistor but that was probrebly to not have to touch the igbt myself and avoid shorting it out im guessing ??

last but not least ... the inductor ... what is it there for ? what its purpose ? and is it normal I have 0 ohms between its two terminals when disconnected ? I get its just wiring but its a lot of wiring curled up that's not suppose to touch each other since its isolated like a transformer ? shouldn't I have at least a few ohms or half ohms like on a motor coil or transformer lol ? something ?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I would not test an IGBT by using my body as a conductor, although 12V is generally safe and the gate of an IGBT does not draw any significant current, except for a slit second while charging and discharging the gate capacitance. But this sort of test will determine if there is any appreciable gate leakage, which can indicate a failing unit. If you notice, it seems like one of the IGBTs lit the lamp brightly and then it began to dim over a few seconds, but that also could have been the camera changing the f-stop to adjust exposure.

I suggested a 1k resistor from the 12V battery to limit current in case you touched the wrong terminal (E) which would cause a short circuit and fireworks. The 10k resistor from G-E was to prevent an overvoltage from static or even electric fields. The gate capacitance will usually limit the voltage actually seen by the gate, because it takes a fairly significant amount of energy to charge it to an unsafe voltage (20V for this device). But repeated contact with static could eventually charge it too high, and leakage from high voltage sources could gradually do that as well. That's why there should be some resistance on the gate when the device is in a live circuit with battery voltage or charging voltage available.

A dual IGBT in half bridge configuration has a collector at the top, and its emitter is connected to the collector of the lower device, while its emitter is at the bottom and usually connected to GND (perhaps through a current sense resistor). There are usually two terminals for the gate connections to each device, but one of them is connected to its emitter. This is for convenience and provides a better way to connect the control wires, which are usually a twisted pair from the driver. If one device is to be used only for its body diode, the gate should be shorted to its emitter to make sure that it cannot turn on and short the DC bus to the collector of the lower device.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

OK so everything is going well  ... did all the low power tests everything was fine ... I think what my charger may have not liked in my first igbt error was that I didn't put any in rush limiters and didn't wait to start anything .... anyway ...

I was about to go on with the 240 volt 5 kw tests but decided not to since my charger did not detect that I actually had 240 volts but still read 110 volts ? which is weird obviously ... 

help valery  so close lol ... 

on that I call it a night its know midnight and I get up at 6 lol


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Tested the charger on 5 k load with 240 volts on input . Charger still only detects 120 but i did a charge test at 10 amps max in and out ... Everythings works well  

Im gonna try to figure out my voltage reading issue tonight but besides that everything is good


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

As stated above charger works now !  which is a very very good thing lol ... I do have one last little thing to fix before I can do my full power tests without cheating the arduino code to disregard the input voltage ... 

my charger always reads from 105 to 120 volts input even if connected to 240 volts ... ? ... my understanding of the voltage input reading ... 

vbop hooked up to the left side of the r45 resistor on the power board . meaning closer to the gate and emitter side of the igbt then the right unused side . goes to vbop inout on driver board . from there it passes though diode d2 ( which I verified is in the right direction) then it goes to r53 a 200 k ohm resistor ( I have a 3 watt but that doesn't change anything ) . from there it goes to U5 the optocoupler . as current which is read by the optocoupler which then translates that into a different current on the other side . which then gets +5 volts applied to it through a 2.4 k ohm resistor ( r4) then this signal now from what I understand being voltage goes to the pin mv of the driver board . to then be brought to the control board as mv to then go to the arduino and is read by this arduino ...

if my 120 volt reading works how come my 240 volt reading wouldn't work ?? if something was defective im guessing it wouldn't read any voltage at all ? or is it preset to read a given false 120 volts by defect ? 

as always thank you ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The PC817 current transfer ratio (CTR) can be 50% to 600%. So with a 200k resistor to the input rectified DC voltage (180V for 120AC and 360V for 240AC), the diode current will be roughly 1 mA to 2 mA. If the CTR is 300%, the phototransistor will conduct 3 mA to 6 mA. The 2.4k resistor will thus drop 7.2V to 14.4V, but with a 5 VDC source this just means that the output will be saturated and its voltage will be very low for either input voltage.

If you look at the datasheet in the link above, you will see that the saturation voltage can be as low as 80 mV at 1 mA collector current. The maximum collector current with a 5V supply and 2.4k will be about 2mA, and the saturation voltage might be as high as 160mV. 

You need to make component changes to get the device into its linear region, where the output voltage C-E is about 2-3 volts with 120 VAC applied. This can be done by increasing the input resistor from 200k to 300k or 500k or whatever works for that particular device. You could also lower the value of the pull-up resistor from 2.4k to about 1k.

This shows what you are dealing with, and it appears that there is not much of a linear region. The best you may hope for might be to achieve essentially an on/off reading for a 2:1 change in diode current:


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> The PC817 current transfer ratio (CTR) can be 50% to 600%. So with a 200k resistor to the input rectified DC voltage (180V for 120AC and 360V for 240AC), the diode current will be roughly 1 mA to 2 mA. If the CTR is 300%, the phototransistor will conduct 3 mA to 6 mA. The 2.4k resistor will thus drop 7.2V to 14.4V, but with a 5 VDC source this just means that the output will be saturated and its voltage will be very low for either input voltage.
> 
> If you look at the datasheet in the link above, you will see that the saturation voltage can be as low as 80 mV at 1 mA collector current. The maximum collector current with a 5V supply and 2.4k will be about 2mA, and the saturation voltage might be as high as 160mV.
> 
> ...




Thanks ill verify tonight what voltage i get at 120 volts ... Techniclly from that i could just do some math to find out what resistor to put to end up in the proper voltage range for my particular optocoupler ??


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That graph is only for a "typical" device. The CTR can vary from 50% to 600%, or more than 10:1, so you would first need to measure your particular device. It would be easier to simply change the input resistor until you get a significant change in output from 120 to 240.

The device has a more linear curve with higher diode current (and higher output current), but for 5 mA input at 360V that will be almost 2 watts. A better device would be the H11F1 and similar components, which exhibit a much more linear change in *resistance* depending on input current. But they are only available in 6 pin DIP packages.

Something else that might work would be a 200V zener in series with the 200k resistor. Thus it would take at least 200V for the opto-LED to see any current, so it would be *off* for 120V and *on* for 240V. Instead of the zener (which may be hard to find in such high voltage), you could use two or three NE-2 neon lamps in series, which take about 60-90V to conduct, and also will give a visual indication of the higher voltage.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Id really like your input on this pc817 issue valery ? Do you have to play around in a guessing game of residtances with every new charger ???


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

My complet non pfc 12 kilowatt charger  ...


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi Folks, we are converting our first electric car, a 2000 Audi TT. Motor is in, lithium cells are in, BMS is in. We are now building one of the EMotor Werks 12KW chargers. 


We have the Arduino programmed and have started into the steps of testing the charger. The preliminary tests went fine. 

We got to step Part8/2/c/iii Limited Test Power & Logic. We applied 120VAC to charger input. The two small wires from the power board are soldered to the AC to 12VDC adapter input.

The LCD screen does not come live. Voltage at the AC Adapter input is instantaneously about 30VAC, then 4.5VAC for a second, then 0.4VAC. There is no 12vdc output from the adapter. Voltage on the lower contacts of both the IGBT's is 174VDC.

Can you tell from this what is wrong? Has anyone else gotten this far and been stuck? 


Thanks for your input 

Yours, Chris & William


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Not clear where your 12 volt power supply is connected ? Do you have a pfc or non pfc charger ? 
If its connected st the right place there must be something wrong with your power components ... Capacitors / input bridge ect ...


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks, Crackerjacz, We are building the PFC 12 KW charger. When we put 120VAC directly onto the input of the 12VDC adapter (mounted on top of the large caps) we get a fine 12vdc source and the LCD lights up for programming, etc. But when we put 120vac on the charger input terminals, and source the 12vdc adapter via two small wires off the power board (per assembly instructions) we get no AC into the adapter, so no 12vdc out from it. Also at this point the IGBT's have only 174vdc (not the 350-400vdc they are supposed to have). 

Do we have a defective bridge board? 

I'm no electrical engineer but it just seems wrong to source the AC adapter from the power board, since the power board is fed through the bridge. How can there be 120VAC on the power board?


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

There isn't 120vac on the input of the 12V power supply. You should be measuring a DC input voltage on the order of 170 volts. The power supply should be a universal input and accept the DC in. The screen might not come live if the black programming button is in program mode. Its sole purpose is to disconnect power to the screen when programming to allow the Arduino to decide to go into serial mode.

respectfully,
John


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello John N, Thanks, I didn't realize that the adapter is a universal type. However, I do not have 170 volts at the adapter input. When I measure it I get 30vdc for an instant, then about 4v for a second, then it goes down to 0.4vdc. I do have 174vdc at the IGBT's. Any other idea what's going on?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Williamws3 said:


> Thanks, Crackerjacz, We are building the PFC 12 KW charger. When we put 120VAC directly onto the input of the 12VDC adapter (mounted on top of the large caps) we get a fine 12vdc source and the LCD lights up for programming, etc. But when we put 120vac on the charger input terminals, and source the 12vdc adapter via two small wires off the power board (per assembly instructions) we get no AC into the adapter, so no 12vdc out from it. Also at this point the IGBT's have only 174vdc (not the 350-400vdc they are supposed to have).
> 
> Do we have a defective bridge board?
> 
> I'm no electrical engineer but it just seems wrong to source the AC adapter from the power board, since the power board is fed through the bridge. How can there be 120VAC on the power board?



I have a none pfc unit so it might be different but were i connect my 12 volt power supply i have dc power only as well over 170 volts dc that is . 
If you dont i would definetly recheck your capacitors and power components until you have that power i would disconnect any power wiring going to the igbt because you could blow it . If you dont have 15 volts dc on the igbt gate and emitter your at risk of blowing it when testing things ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello John N, Thanks, I didn't realize that the adapter is a universal type. However, I do not have 170 volts at the adapter input. When I measure it I get 30vdc for an instant, then about 4v for a second, then it goes down to 0.4vdc. I do have 174vdc at the IGBT's. Any other idea what's going on?



Just read this message ... I have a non pfc unit so check carefully but my igbt inputs are were i connect my 12 volt power supply input except i dont connect it at the igbt location but on my voltage doubler output going to the igbt ... Im wondering if your connecting your power supply to the right place ... Post a picture or describe with detail ... ???


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

I don't see on the PC board diagram where it might be from, but it sounds like you have the 12 power supply input in series with a capacitor. I would check very carefully where the 2 small wires are connected to the main power board. From what I see on the PCB there are 3 small holes in an "L" shape labeled Vbop for the + side and 2 small holes labeled In"-" for the - side. They are on either side of one of the blue square capacitors labeled CF1. I would also check the electrolytic capacitors (round ones) for correct orientation and good solder joints.

Lastly, disconnect the 12v fans. I had a problem with my power supply in that at 2 amps it was not able to drive the 3 fans and so it shut down. I was able to get a little farther into the testing while I waited to obtain a larger power supply. You can't get into any heavy power testing without the fans but the unit should run.

respectfully,
John


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks, John N. Per your suggestion I unplugged the 3 fans. Now the input to the 12v adapter is at 174vdc. Still nothing on the LCD. I pulled out the driver board and took off the 12v plug to check it. There is no 12vdc output from the adapter, even with 174vdc at the input. 

So I have a defective universal 12v adapter, correct? 

Also just slightly spooked that I may have blown up the IGBT's when there was no low voltage on their gates & emitters. How will I know? 

thanks for your continued help Williamws3


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Either you have a bad power supply or the output is shorted. How sure are you of your connections from the power supply to the plug that goes onto the control board. If you made flying splices are you sure that they are insulated from each other? I don't think the fans would have anything to do with the power supply input. Many of these small power supplies survive a shorted output.

As for the IGBTs, look back a few pages 4-5 and there was a large discussion about testing the IGBTs. You are coming up on where I am in the build process so I don't know how much farther I'll be able to take you. I got to the 120V testing and when using the 2 light bulb test I managed to blow my IGBT and a few other parts. I am now ready to go back through the build notes from the beginning and check all of my work. I have also downloaded a more recent firmware file to put into the Arduino as well as purchasing a replacement Arduino from Sparkfun just to be sure. My original firmware was from Oct 2013 and the "new" files are from Feb 2014.

Life has just gotten in the way of getting back on the build.

respectfully,
John


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

John N said:


> I don't see on the PC board diagram where it might be from, but it sounds like you have the 12 power supply input in series with a capacitor. I would check very carefully where the 2 small wires are connected to the main power board. From what I see on the PCB there are 3 small holes in an "L" shape labeled Vbop for the + side and 2 small holes labeled In"-" for the - side. They are on either side of one of the blue square capacitors labeled CF1. I would also check the electrolytic capacitors (round ones) for correct orientation and good solder joints.
> 
> Lastly, disconnect the 12v fans. I had a problem with my power supply in that at 2 amps it was not able to drive the 3 fans and so it shut down. I was able to get a little farther into the testing while I waited to obtain a larger power supply. You can't get into any heavy power testing without the fans but the unit should run.
> 
> ...


William - it sounds like your multimeter is in AC mode when you are measuring voltage on the input of the AC adapter. Pls put it into a DC mode and try again. The fact that you have some AC reading when you connect suggests that you do have DC voltage on the input - and you are seeing a short decaying spike on your meter (in AC mode) as your meter's parasitic capacitances charge up...

Your issues sounds like a power supply issue. I would go sequentially from the input power to the voltage supply on your boards and check every step. First of all, measure the input on your power supply in DC mode. If that checks out, disconnect your power supply's output and measure output voltage (DC mode). If you get 12V when not connected, reconnect output to the board and measure again. Etc. At some point in the chain, you will find that supply voltage disappears...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey valery  ... Read a few posts back to my pc817 input voltage reading issue id like your input on the matter ... Thanks


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi Valery, You are right, I was looking for AC power at the input to the 12 adapter. I didn't realize that it is a universal adapter. 

I just checked it more carefully and found the problem. The input to the adapter has a +and a - side -- if they're connected wrong there is no output. I've got it connected correctly now and the fans run, LCD comes on. 

However, the voltage at the output IGBT is still only 174VDC. So, the PFC stage is not starting. Please correspond with your next suggestion for debugging....

Yours, William Smith III 401-423-0433


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

I got tired of opening my trunk every time i want to stop the charger when i got it connected to public charging stations. I tried to build small device that would:

a) show the charger is in operation - red LED wired to BMS port, so its on when BMS port comes active.

b) stop the charger with a press of the button - i build the button and connected it to "shutdown" port under D4 and D5. Basicaly i pulled the PWM to ground when i wanted to stop the charger.

It worked at small current say 5A, but above 9A charger started to hum and at 10A noise became so loud my BMS tripped comms and stopped the charger.

How should i connect the shutdown port, because the wires are clearly picking up charger noise... 
Should i use D6 port and S6 N2222 to stop PWM on command? But what about port D6? Would it create problems if i sent 5V trough pin D6 to open S6 that would in effect pulled pwm to gnd? 

EDIT: Could i use BC547 instead of N2222 transistor?

tnx

Arber


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Is there a BOM and / or circuit diagram available for the V12 control board?


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Here ya go lad.....

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/EMW-12000_BOM-V12.xps


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks, the adapter is now working after we polarized the input correctly. We had not realized that it was a universal adapter, nor that the input needs to be correctly polarized. 

We went to the next step of testing and the PFC stage does not turn on. Everything appears normal on the LCD except that the input voltage is shown as 356v and the temperature shows as -68C. Voltage on the two lower contacts of th IGBT's is 174vdc (not the 350 - 400that should be ther per the build notes).


Is there any place in the build notes or on the forum where there are steps to debug the PFC stage?


Thanks for your guidance. Williamws3


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Williamws3 said:


> Thanks, the adapter is now working after we polarized the input correctly. We had not realized that it was a universal adapter, nor that the input needs to be correctly polarized.
> 
> We went to the next step of testing and the PFC stage does not turn on. Everything appears normal on the LCD except that the input voltage is shown as 356v and the temperature shows as -68C. Voltage on the two lower contacts of th IGBT's is 174vdc (not the 350 - 400that should be ther per the build notes).
> 
> ...



For your input voltage issue ... Do you have a version 13 driver board ? If so you probrebly have the same voltage reading issue as i do . Im still waiting on valery on how to fix ... Read a few pages back pstechpaul gave some good pointers for it about the pc817 chip . Im just waiting for valerys confirmation if this is what i should do . For your temp reading there are two temp inputs on the control board make sure your connected properly on the first


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery ........ ??????

Over a week and a half with no answer even though youve been on the forum answering in the 100$ evse thread ??? ...


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Hi Guys, I'm enjoying digging into this.

Checking out the arduino code now (btw it really is much simpler to absorb in one long-ish purpose built pde file than 500 odd source and header files, so thank you!)


A couple notes, 

I'm sorting out a custom "intelligent" bms and I would like to be able to pause charging instead of completely shutting it down, I'm hoping to do active balance, but I don't want to build in a huge balance capacity (expensive at hundreds of cells) so it may have trouble keeping up with the charger. But still it makes sense to top balance, so you get more energy density, and it shuffles the charges around while you are driving and parked away from an outlet. Anyway, when it needs more charge, is there any other option besides hijacking the green button? Do you think that when it isn't charging it could pull down pin_BMS and the bms can pull up the line to signal that it is ready for more charge? some other interface? would it then make sense for it to revert to runChargeStep(1, or runChargeStep(2, whichever it was doing when last interrupted? 

EDIT: checking out serialmode, that looks like a possibility. Also means since the bms stays in the car, the vehicle max current/volts can stay with the car.


Also, a note on millis():
it overflows like every 49+ days (4,294,967,295 ms). 
So the code needs to be aware of that so it can compensate. Every 7 weeks your week counter will discard .7 days and reset to 0. They say "get a RTC" but the mcu crystal is plenty accurate enough IMHO, it is a software problem. that users inherit. You can simply wrap millis() in a function that detects the overflow (saves the value from the last call) and compensates, i.e. long long.

Which reminds me that the juicebox has an rtc option, and discusses things like timing charges, so I realize that puts this in the "middle" of the station passthrough and the bms, but I wonder what sort of discussions are going on about who initiates charges and when.

Thanks, and totally awesome project!


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

thanks, Crackerjackz, the post by PStechpaul with the graph about the igbt emitters is way beyond me .....yes, we have a v13 driver board.

Valery, we have only 174 vdc on the igbt's lower contacts. PFC stage obviously isn't turning on. What styeps do we use to debug?

Thanks, Williamws3


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

Williamws3, Take a look back at around post 1840. I was having a problem with non-functioning PFC and got some help from Valerun at that time. My problem turned out to be a missing diode D2.

respectfully,
John


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

getting seriously discouraged here. I read back to posts 185 & 186 and am now pretty spooked about making a small mistake and frying some major component. I'm okay at mechanical things but am nowhere near you guys in being able to look at a circuit diagram and figure out what it means. 

Valery, if you can't give a step-by-step troubleshooting sequence to fix the problem of 174vdc on the igbt's, would yo consider taking back our fully built charger and debugging it yourself? How much wold you charge for this? 

We need to get this car running because it's my son't senior HS project. Need help.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Hi Valery, I was wondering if you can take a look at those chargers I sent you in December, I've been borrowing a manzanita from a friend but he will need it back at the end of this month and so the Old Samba will not have a way to charge its batteries. If you can't work on them anytime soon can I have them shipped back so i can at least take one last crack at them before i decide to buy a store bought charger?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Is the arduino software for the V12 control card available?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Ok found it. Are we still stuck with using arduino v22 to compile or have the libraries been updated?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

jackbauer said:


> Ok found it. Are we still stuck with using arduino v22 to compile or have the libraries been updated?



Arduino program v22 still ....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

jehu said:


> Hi Valery, I was wondering if you can take a look at those chargers I sent you in December, I've been borrowing a manzanita from a friend but he will need it back at the end of this month and so the Old Samba will not have a way to charge its batteries. If you can't work on them anytime soon can I have them shipped back so i can at least take one last crack at them before i decide to buy a store bought charger?



Those ?? You also bought more than one and didnt complet one ???


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## Dbot (Apr 14, 2014)

Nice this will help me quite a bit!


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery !!!! 2 week mark now waiting on what to do about the input voltage reading concerning the pc817 detecting always 120 volts not 240 .... ????????????


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

crackerjackz said:


> Arduino program v22 still ....


lol, you sure arduino is a good fit for this?  Sure, easy to program but another flaky layer at each upgrade. It is kinda important that your charger works reliably. probably should consider packaging up the current gcc that came with arduino and putting it into a build script for a few platforms and locking down the toolchain/libraries just so nobody screws up their batteries/car/house/village. Folks can still edit and recompile, but less newbie hackers might be the safe bet. Just saying, arduino development focuses on toys and flashy lights, and an upgrade for better flashy lights could possibly have an adverse effect on a $30,000 EV.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery ... Got an email from you two days ago saying youd answer that night about the pc817 calibration .....?No answer ....


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Valery ... Got an email from you two days ago saying youd answer that night about the pc817 calibration .....?No answer ....


am traveling now, guys - give me a couple of days.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Hi Valery, I was wondering if you can take a look at those chargers I sent you in December, I've been borrowing a manzanita from a friend but he will need it back at the end of this month and so the Old Samba will not have a way to charge its batteries. If you can't work on them anytime soon can I have them shipped back so i can at least take one last crack at them before i decide to buy a store bought charger?


will get you at least one of them soon, Jehu. Sorry it took so long.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Ok found it. Are we still stuck with using arduino v22 to compile or have the libraries been updated?


Sorry Damien - no update yet. We are working on a new control board based on Arduino Due - we will switch over to Arduino v1.5.x at that point. Should be soon. I will post a couple of things on this after I answer some urgent questions here


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dcb said:


> lol, you sure arduino is a good fit for this?  Sure, easy to program but another flaky layer at each upgrade. It is kinda important that your charger works reliably. probably should consider packaging up the current gcc that came with arduino and putting it into a build script for a few platforms and locking down the toolchain/libraries just so nobody screws up their batteries/car/house/village. Folks can still edit and recompile, but less newbie hackers might be the safe bet. Just saying, arduino development focuses on toys and flashy lights, and an upgrade for better flashy lights could possibly have an adverse effect on a $30,000 EV.


well, yes this is not a complete foolproof industrial platform for sure. But so far not a single issue related to hardware Arduino problems. A few issues when people edited their firmware in suboptimal ways but hey, that's sort of the point of Open Source, no?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> getting seriously discouraged here. I read back to posts 185 & 186 and am now pretty spooked about making a small mistake and frying some major component. I'm okay at mechanical things but am nowhere near you guys in being able to look at a circuit diagram and figure out what it means.
> 
> Valery, if you can't give a step-by-step troubleshooting sequence to fix the problem of 174vdc on the igbt's, would yo consider taking back our fully built charger and debugging it yourself? How much wold you charge for this?
> 
> We need to get this car running because it's my son't senior HS project. Need help.


Hi William - will need you to post your photo of the driver board here to diagnose. I hope it's just a missing / misplaced component. Here is just a list of things we have seen that prevent PFC stage to turn on:
1. Incomplete circuit when signal from Vbop terminal pin does not reach the PFC chip. This is the example John gave
2. Incomplete / incorrect circuit from Vout to PFC chip. 
3. +/-15V supply for PFC stage is not producing output voltage (easiest way to check is to measure voltage between G and E pins of the driver board IGBT terminals on the PFC side.
4. Overheated chip when soldering. 
There are other possible reasons but the above are most frequent.

Picture will help. 

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dcb said:


> Hi Guys, I'm enjoying digging into this.
> 
> Checking out the arduino code now (btw it really is much simpler to absorb in one long-ish purpose built pde file than 500 odd source and header files, so thank you!)
> 
> ...


Thanks dcb!

yes, SERIALCONTROL mode is best for your case, I think. Note that for full capabilities in Serial Control mode you will need V14 firmware - PM me if needed. It is still in testing stage but we feel pretty good about it already - it runs a few of our CHAdeMO chargers for the last few weeks. 

re millis - yes, you are absolutely correct and JuiceBox firmware before V8.6.5 was vulnerable to this effect. Since then, we changed the timing code to count seconds and not millis. Seconds are counted via a timer-driven interrupt. So now we are running 49000-day overflow risk. Which is ~120 years. I wonder if any of our JuiceBoxes will live for that long ;-) would be kind of cool ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> I got tired of opening my trunk every time i want to stop the charger when i got it connected to public charging stations. I tried to build small device that would:
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - 

Why don't you just insert a normally closed switch between BMS and EOC pins? This will emulate BMS. If you already have your BMS wired in there, add switch in series with your closed-loop BMS.

Thanks,
Valery


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber -
> 
> Why don't you just insert a normally closed switch between BMS and EOC pins? This will emulate BMS. If you already have your BMS wired in there, add switch in series with your closed-loop BMS.
> 
> ...


Sometimes the simplest solutions run away from you . Will do.

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> OK so everything is going well  ... did all the low power tests everything was fine ... I think what my charger may have not liked in my first igbt error was that I didn't put any in rush limiters and didn't wait to start anything .... anyway ...
> 
> I was about to go on with the 240 volt 5 kw tests but decided not to since my charger did not detect that I actually had 240 volts but still read 110 volts ? which is weird obviously ...
> 
> ...


ok finally got to this - sorry for delay. I know it's been 2 weeks. 

I have just added a description of calibration procedure to page 62 of the PFC manual. https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...N-GHv85InmnCtq7k5OKz6l6RijqqVGUo3uvpSM2k/edit. I could have sweared I have written this out already but maybe that was in my dreams lol... Please let me know how that goes.

In any case, lower reading won't hurt the charger - detecting 120V will just force the limit on output power of ~1.8kW.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

I think I have answered all critical questions here. Let me know if I missed any. 

Now a quick update on R&D front. As some of you know, we have been working on the Arduino Due-based control board. While we were able to make the board and put the Due on it (and actually use the board in our CHAdeMO controllers for SmartChargers), Due board is just way too big for a use case like this. 

So we have designed our own version of Arduino Due board but with more functions and much smaller. At the expense of a few things, of course, but we feel that the trade-offs we made are very good, especially if one were to use our board in small-run production such as SmartCharge chargers. 

The current version of the PCB is shown below, along with key parameters listed on the image. The plan is to order the first set of test boards this week and start testing next week. 

If there are any embedded gurus here, please let me know what you think!

Valery


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I tried again at 600V and it worked up to 30A. Charger worked for 1 hour and got to 45°C. This was all good and well. However when i tried to charge at 40A charger threw fuses and after a second there was a crack from inside. When i checked i found 10k 250mW resistor across E1G1 was blown. Why would that happen? 

I decided to abandon the full 3phase buck charger because if one cannot charge more than 30A there are no real benefits from higher voltage. 
I will now try to build one mini version up to 25A output and keep my old one as 3phase halfbridge that works nicely up to 45A 6kW.

DOH!


I changed the blown IGBT for the old one 200A 600V Fuji and repaired driver board. Now charger works single phase. I set it to 20kHz operation and 1,6 max current limiter. Still at 25A out i hear some noises from charger as someone would scratch the table. Can you tell me what this is, inductor or IGBT? My cap bank is 6600uF and i have plenty of low ESR caps.

tnx 

A


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello Valery, thanks for your message last night. I am attaching two photos of our diver board. Let me know if you can tell anything from these, or if you need close-up photos of any area. We will try troubleshooting per your suggestions.
Yours, William 3


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello Valery, thanks for your message last night. I am attaching two photos of our diver board. Let me know if you can tell anything from these, or if you need close-up photos of any area. We will try troubleshooting per your suggestions.
> Yours, William 3


Is there supposed to be a solder bridge on U8?


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

*Page 36 doesn't say anything about a solder bridge

Assembly sequence – current board type

Group 1: (lowest-height components first)
Place IR1153 PFC surface-mount chip U8, solder
Place A7520 chip U2
Place PC817 (opto-isolator) U5
Place 8-dip sockets for U6 & U7 (if supplied) or A3120 / 3184 chips (2) directly to board
Turn over, solder, trim leads

*


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

*Williamws3* would you send pics of the bottom side of these boards? dcb's got a sharp eye. School projects needed completing on time.....


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Hi William - will need you to post your photo of the driver board here to diagnose. I hope it's just a missing / misplaced component. Here is just a list of things we have seen that prevent PFC stage to turn on:
> 1. Incomplete circuit when signal from Vbop terminal pin does not reach the PFC chip. This is the example John gave
> 2. Incomplete / incorrect circuit from Vout to PFC chip.
> 3. +/-15V supply for PFC stage is not producing output voltage (easiest way to check is to measure voltage between G and E pins of the driver board IGBT terminals on the PFC side.
> ...


Hello Valery, Here are preliminary results of the tests you suggested: 
1) Vbop pin to GND out pin on driver board shows 0.14vdc
2) Vout pin to GND out pin on driver board shows no voltage
(these two tests done with 120VAC on charger input, and driver board unplugged from IGBT's)
3) no voltage between G & E pins where driver board connects to IGBT's (driver board plugged in to IGBT's)
4) I don't think we overheated a of the chips while soldering. The only obvious anomaly is pins 5&6 of the 1153 surface-mount chip U8 are soldered together (I asked you about this before). Is this the PFC chip? How would I troubleshoot this chip?
Thanks for your continued help. William 3


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks, DCB and Ranger, we appreciate your help. Here is a photo of the bottom of our driver board. Let me know if yo see any anomaly.

Yes, on our U8 chip pins 5 & 6are soldered together. What happened is that in the original soldering they merged, then I tried to separate them and realized that they are connected on the PCB. I had tried to cut the connection with a knife so to make sure that the connection is there,I left them soldered together. I asked Valery about this and he confirmed it's okay.


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi Ranger, yes, it was my mistake in the build to have to leave that solder bridge. Actually the pins are connected on the pcb so I think this is okay. I queried Valery about a month ago about it and he confirmed it's okay.

Can you help me with trobleshooting the Vbop and Vout voltages? I'm measuring with the charger connected to 120vac, between these pins and the and negative pin on the driverboard (the negative side of the pins that drive the fans). I get no voltage on either wire. Should I be measuring somewhere else?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello Valery, Here are preliminary results of the tests you suggested:
> 1) Vbop pin to GND out pin on driver board shows 0.14vdc
> 2) Vout pin to GND out pin on driver board shows no voltage
> (these two tests done with 120VAC on charger input, and driver board unplugged from IGBT's)
> ...


u8 must be your pfc chip or at least related because it is not found on the non pfc charger .... as for pin 5 and 6 it doesn't matter for sure that they are welded together because as seen in the pcb files those to pins are already joined in board ... 

honestly your welds though look like they didn't penetrate very deep ... might just be the picture because I cant make it bigger but it appears like there are blobs of resin on top of the pcb but not much that melted down the middle were the connections are at ... am I mistaken ? how long did you heat your legs on components before putting your resin ?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> ok finally got to this - sorry for delay. I know it's been 2 weeks.
> 
> I have just added a description of calibration procedure to page 62 of the PFC manual. https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...N-GHv85InmnCtq7k5OKz6l6RijqqVGUo3uvpSM2k/edit. I could have sweared I have written this out already but maybe that was in my dreams lol... Please let me know how that goes.
> 
> In any case, lower reading won't hurt the charger - detecting 120V will just force the limit on output power of ~1.8kW.


the fact that you added how to calibrate the chip is great ... but im not sure if I should laugh or just call it pathetic that this hasn't made it into the non pfc build notes .... honestly your non pfc build notes are WAY behind and the pictures are obsolete .... 

you gotta do something about the non pfc unit build notes ... unless you don't want to sell anymore and only sell pfc versions ? which could be what you want ? either just stop the selling of these units until you get some good instructions !! I love my charger I love the idea that I built it myself and you allowed that ect ... but you have no idea how many hours I lost to your crappy ,shitty , outdated non pfc unit instructions ... every time id ask a question and youd answer me : oh that's in the pfc build notes in this or that section just disregard this and that and this and that because your non pfc ... I feel like dying a little more of frustration ...


my .02 cent venting ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

pstechpaul .... thanks for your help about the pc817 chip issues .... sure enough it is fixable in the software from valerys instructions which he just added to the pfc build notes .... I will be doing this as soon as my time allows as I am in the hurrying process of officially ordering my sinoploy cells and need to figure out what fits ect and transfer money to canev before wednsday  ...



 
 
 Full test of the Charger on resistive load:

 Connect the 5kW load to the output

 Connect 240VAC to the input

 Confirm your charger reads 240V input voltage (only for V13 driver boards or higher)

 Wait to time out through the first 5-second timeout

 The charger should now show 240V input voltage

 If the input voltage reading is still 120V, you need to calibrate a sensing circuit based on PC817 IC by editing this line in code: “ if(peakV>2.) return 240;” - this will be around line 1411 in V12 firmware

 easiest way is to change ‘2.’ until you get correct detection of BOTH 120V and 240V

 best to change that value to the middle of the current range you are exploring

 For example, if the current value is 2., change it to 1. (mid point between 0 and 2). If the charger now reads 240V on both 120V and 240V input, change the threshold value to 1.5 (midpoint between 1 and 2V). 

 Repeat until you get reliable detection.
 
 Another, more precise way is to measure voltage on mV pin of the G-V-mV connector on top right of the driver board and adjust the same line in firmware based on your readings.

 Measure mV voltage (relative to the G pin on the same connector) when charger is connected to 110V. This is your V1

 DO same for 240V connection. This is your V2

Change the ‘2.’ threshold in firmware to ‘5-(V1+V2)/2’. Basically, you are moving the threshold to the midpoint of the voltage Arduino detects at these two voltage points.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I tried again at 600V and it worked up to 30A. Charger worked for 1 hour and got to 45°C. This was all good and well. However when i tried to charge at 40A charger threw fuses and after a second there was a crack from inside. When i checked i found 10k 250mW resistor across E1G1 was blown. Why would that happen?
> 
> ...



can you post the latest photos of your power board?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> the fact that you added how to calibrate the chip is great ... but im not sure if I should laugh or just call it pathetic that this hasn't made it into the non pfc build notes .... honestly your non pfc build notes are WAY behind and the pictures are obsolete ....
> 
> you gotta do something about the non pfc unit build notes ... unless you don't want to sell anymore and only sell pfc versions ? which could be what you want ? either just stop the selling of these units until you get some good instructions !! I love my charger I love the idea that I built it myself and you allowed that ect ... but you have no idea how many hours I lost to your crappy ,shitty , outdated non pfc unit instructions ... every time id ask a question and youd answer me : oh that's in the pfc build notes in this or that section just disregard this and that and this and that because your non pfc ... I feel like dying a little more of frustration ...
> 
> ...


fair enough. sorry about that. 

this product (NON-PFC version of SmartCharge-12000) is therefore now discontinued and will not be sold anymore.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> u8 must be your pfc chip or at least related because it is not found on the non pfc charger .... as for pin 5 and 6 it doesn't matter for sure that they are welded together because as seen in the pcb files those to pins are already joined in board ...
> 
> honestly your welds though look like they didn't penetrate very deep ... might just be the picture because I cant make it bigger but it appears like there are blobs of resin on top of the pcb but not much that melted down the middle were the connections are at ... am I mistaken ? how long did you heat your legs on components before putting your resin ?


Hi William - are you measuring these while the driver board is properly connected to all Vbop/Vout/Vovp/IsG/IsS leads from the power board?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello Valery, Here are preliminary results of the tests you suggested:
> 1) Vbop pin to GND out pin on driver board shows 0.14vdc
> 2) Vout pin to GND out pin on driver board shows no voltage
> (these two tests done with 120VAC on charger input, and driver board unplugged from IGBT's)
> ...


#3 above means that there is no power supply to the driver circuitry. I assume the driver board is connected to 12V supply when you are measuring the voltage?

As next step, I would measure the voltage on the outputs of the PFC-side DC-DC converter (black rectangle with 3+2 pins). The outputs are a set of 3 pins. You need to measure between pin 1 and 3 of that set (careful don't short anything or you will damage DC-DC)

And yes, solder bridge between pins 5 and 6 is ok (these pins are connected on board).

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> can you post the latest photos of your power board?


There is nothing special, this is normal NonPFC V9 power board. I just removed IGBT input caps together with 15uF film cap and replaced them with my own bank of caps that can hold 800VDC. Here: 
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/02032014063.jpg

I added one 1.5uF snubber cap but i still get the schratching noise when over 22A on single phase. Mind you, i dont get the noise when i connect to 3phase half bridge. So i deducted this is some form of single phase current weaveform pulse, because 3phase weave form is almost level. You have more experience, can you tell what this is and can it harm my charger?
Could i get rid of it and how? 

tnx

A


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Hi William - are you measuring these while the driver board is properly connected to all Vbop/Vout/Vovp/IsG/IsS leads from the power board?


Hello Valery, I tested again and I must have had something unplugged. 

I'm now reading 15.6vdc on the G & E terminals of the PFC IGBT. I'm reading 39vdc between pins 1 & 3 of the PFC DC-DC rectangle.

I'm still not getting much at the Vbop and Vout pins on the driver board (measured to the GND out pin on the driver board). I get a few volts at first and then it goes down to near zero.

The lower terminals of the two IGBT's still show 172vdc.

Can you tell what is happening, or what I should test next? Thanks, William 3


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

Valery, 
Wouldn't it make sense to put out a step by step, board by board testing procedure that people could follow. Apply this voltage here, should read this this point. Attach scope leads here, should look like this so at another spot. As it is now someone builds a charger and if it works great. But if it doesn't it's a lot of shooting in the dark trying to hit a target.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Zak650 said:


> Valery,
> Wouldn't it make sense to put out a step by step, board by board testing procedure that people could follow. Apply this voltage here, should read this this point. Attach scope leads here, should look like this so at another spot. As it is now someone builds a charger and if it works great. But if it doesn't it's a lot of shooting in the dark trying to hit a target.


good idea. We have a short troubleshooting guide for our EVSE kits - should do same here. Will start adding to the manual.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> I'm still not getting much at the Vbop and Vout pins on the driver board (measured to the GND out pin on the driver board). I get a few volts at first and then it goes down to near zero.


Gnd Out is Arduino ground. It is not connected to anything on the power board side. You should be measuring Vbop/Vout/Vovp relative to high voltage (power) ground - you can find it on the center terminal of either IGBT.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> There is nothing special, this is normal NonPFC V9 power board. I just removed IGBT input caps together with 15uF film cap and replaced them with my own bank of caps that can hold 800VDC. Here:
> http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/02032014063.jpg
> 
> I added one 1.5uF snubber cap but i still get the schratching noise when over 22A on single phase. Mind you, i dont get the noise when i connect to 3phase half bridge. So i deducted this is some form of single phase current weaveform pulse, because 3phase weave form is almost level. You have more experience, can you tell what this is and can it harm my charger?
> ...


the noise is most likely coming from operation of the overcurrent protection on control board (there is a hardware overcurrent circuit based on LM211P comparator). You are right in your hypothesis that single-phase waveform makes it easier to trigger this effect on the top of the wave. The factors that would contribute to the effect are: low input/output capacitance, low inductance of the output inductor, low PWM frequency, high voltage difference between input and output, and low instantMaxCRatio set in firmware. 

First thing I would try is setting instantMaxCRatio=1.6. Then I would make sure PWM frequency is set to 20khz (period=50 in firmware). See if this fixes the problem. If not, we need to know your total capacitances on input and output and what inductor you are using

This could also be due to noise pickup on current sensor line. Try this: when your charger emits this noise, try moving the wires connecting your current sensor to control board and see if that changes the noise. If it does, then at least part of the problem is sensor wiring layout.

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> the noise is most likely coming from operation of the overcurrent protection on control board (there is a hardware overcurrent circuit based on LM211P comparator). You are right in your hypothesis that single-phase waveform makes it easier to trigger this effect on the top of the wave. The factors that would contribute to the effect are: low input/output capacitance, low inductance of the output inductor, low PWM frequency, high voltage difference between input and output, and low instantMaxCRatio set in firmware.
> 
> First thing I would try is setting instantMaxCRatio=1.6. Then I would make sure PWM frequency is set to 20khz (period=50 in firmware). See if this fixes the problem. If not, we need to know your total capacitances on input and output and what inductor you are using
> 
> ...


1. My period is set to 50 and instantMaxCRatio=1.6 all the time.
2. I tried to move wires and nothing changes. 
3. My total cap bank would be like this:

5000uF bridge + 680uF (4 caps in 2s2p) on IGBT + 15uF polycap + 1,5uF snubber
after IGBT there is 1300uF + 15uF polycap 

is it too small?
I will change input bank now to:
8000uF + 2500uF + 15uF + 1,5

We ll see...

A


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Gnd Out is Arduino ground. It is not connected to anything on the power board side. You should be measuring Vbop/Vout/Vovp relative to high voltage (power) ground - you can find it on the center terminal of either IGBT.


Thanks, Valery, I tested again using the center tap on the output IGBT as ground. The voltages read: 
Vbop = 17vdc
Vout = 0
Vovp = 174vdc
Still only 174vdc on bottom two terminals of IGBT's

Can you tell what is going wrong? Maybe I should stay up to midnight here on the E Coast so that we can troubleshoot this without the 24-hour delays?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Valery, I wonder if it would help to have a video camera running while someone builds and tests a complete board, either at the factory or by someone who has successfully built one? A picture is worth 1000 words, and a video is worth 1000 pictures.

Sometimes I think things get lost and misunderstood in translation, or because of different levels of understanding and experience with electronics. If I had need for an EV charger, I'd be happy to do it myself. Maybe you can offer an extra discount for someone to document a successful build and test. I can understand the frustration of those who have had so many problems, especially when expensive components are damaged, and I also understand your predicament in being unable to provide the time for explanations and corrections and proper documentation with so many versions and tweaks.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> Thanks, Valery, I tested again using the center tap on the output IGBT as ground. The voltages read:
> Vbop = 17vdc
> Vout = 0
> Vovp = 174vdc
> ...


Vbop is too low. It should read the same as your rectified input voltage - ~170VDC


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Valery, I wonder if it would help to have a video camera running while someone builds and tests a complete board, either at the factory or by someone who has successfully built one? A picture is worth 1000 words, and a video is worth 1000 pictures.
> 
> Sometimes I think things get lost and misunderstood in translation, or because of different levels of understanding and experience with electronics. If I had need for an EV charger, I'd be happy to do it myself. Maybe you can offer an extra discount for someone to document a successful build and test. I can understand the frustration of those who have had so many problems, especially when expensive components are damaged, and I also understand your predicament in being unable to provide the time for explanations and corrections and proper documentation with so many versions and tweaks.


Paul - thanks. we actually DO have a 4-hour, 10-part assembly video on Youtube... Unfortunately, that stuff is not sufficient when problems arise. What we need is a robust troubleshooting guide. But frankly we are getting to the point when the whole kit business is just too much hassle...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> 1. My period is set to 50 and instantMaxCRatio=1.6 all the time.
> 2. I tried to move wires and nothing changes.
> 3. My total cap bank would be like this:
> 
> ...


 well i think i got it.
Since i dont have the need for 800V components anymore i broke my 5000uF 900VDC cap bank and made smaller 8000uF 450Vdc. Then i changed also 680uF 800Vdc preIGBT bank and made 2500uF 400Vdc out of it. I left output bank as is... Pictures following...

Results are spectacular - NOT! No noise, no vibration, no nothing!!! Just steady 26A output. Looks like i didnt have enough capacitance on input.

I think my future charger will use only 8000uF input caps with 15uF poly cap and one 0,75uF snubber cap. This should further reduce weight/size. 
I am still weighing benefits of Mica vs pressed silk. Latter i would still had to cut and drill it but it is much more robust than mica sheet.

A


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Vbop is too low. It should read the same as your rectified input voltage - ~170VDC


Hi Valery,
I tested again and now Vbop is showing 170vdc, only a few volts lower than the rectified input of 174. Maybe I mis-read the meter before? 

But still no voltage above 174 on the igbt's. Any more suggestions for debugging it? William3


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Hi William - will need you to post your photo of the driver board here to diagnose. I hope it's just a missing / misplaced component. Here is just a list of things we have seen that prevent PFC stage to turn on:
> 1. Incomplete circuit when signal from Vbop terminal pin does not reach the PFC chip. This is the example John gave
> 2. Incomplete / incorrect circuit from Vout to PFC chip.
> 3. +/-15V supply for PFC stage is not producing output voltage (easiest way to check is to measure voltage between G and E pins of the driver board IGBT terminals on the PFC side.
> ...


Hello Valery and happy Easter. I wold still like to troubleshoot this charger as I think we are very near to getting it going. 

I saw on the build notes that you've added a paragraph about testing the driver board outputs. I did this and the right pair of outputs (buck side) reads 15.5vdc, and he left side pair reads 14vdc. A little low but something is there. 

In your message quoted above you say that the signals from Vbop and Vout must reach the PFC chip (this is U8, the IR1153 chip, correct?) Can you tell me which pins on U8 to test for these signals, and what voltages should be present? 

Per your quote above, perhaps I burned the chip when I soldered it. Should I just get another IR1153 chip and install it?

Thanks for your continued support. William 3


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi 

To enyone who might concern...

I assembled input capacitor for my charger with this caps:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251169273012?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

They are cheap and appear to hold 1000uF at 450Vdc. That means i can use only 8 of teese to fully satisfy my input requirements. 
PCB i made from single sided PCB piece, drilled and dremeled and in the end soldered across all tracks. This to provide corrosion protection and allow better current carrying ability. At first i built 6P2S bank to hold 3000uF at 900V.
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/28022014048.jpg

I have now didassembled the latter cap bank and built 8P bank in the same manner for single phase charger. It works beautifully. It even saved me some space. 

enjoy!!!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi
> 
> To enyone who might concern...
> 
> ...


hardcore. that's a lot of solder! ;-))


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello Valery and happy Easter. I wold still like to troubleshoot this charger as I think we are very near to getting it going.
> 
> I saw on the build notes that you've added a paragraph about testing the driver board outputs. I did this and the right pair of outputs (buck side) reads 15.5vdc, and he left side pair reads 14vdc. A little low but something is there.
> 
> ...


Please take a look at the schematics of the system and IR1153 datasheet. This will help you understand how the whole thing works. 

We can send you a 1153 chip (or 2) free of charge but you will have to use a SMD reworking station to remove the old chip... Do you have one? Something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/898D-2in1-S...586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdc282a72


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

question to the electronics gurus who might be around: we are looking for a SMD reflow oven - any good recommendations? Not toaster-based ones... ;-)


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> hardcore. that's a lot of solder! ;-))


Yes, i couldnt get my hands on good quality PCB with thick copper layer, so i had to make my own . I also sprayes it with plastic spray to isolate it. This plate is mounted inverted and is separated from Al cooling block by 0,5mm sheet of pertinax.

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Please take a look at the schematics of the system and IR1153 datasheet. This will help you understand how the whole thing works.
> 
> We can send you a 1153 chip (or 2) free of charge but you will have to use a SMD reworking station to remove the old chip... Do you have one? Something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/898D-2in1-S...586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdc282a72


When i built my NonPFC charger i mistakenly installed PFC chip. I did it using my $50 soldier iron station with 0,8mm tip. After i figured my mistake i used the same tip, some fine copper braid and soldier vacuum pump and it went off with a little patience. 
I dont need to suggest that you would probably need 3 hands for such an operation . 

A


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Please take a look at the schematics of the system and IR1153 datasheet. This will help you understand how the whole thing works.
> 
> We can send you a 1153 chip (or 2) free of charge but you will have to use a SMD reworking station to remove the old chip... Do you have one? Something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/898D-2in1-S...586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdc282a72


Hello Valery, I have ordered two of the IR1153chips from Digikey so no need to send them. I looked at the SMD rework station and it seems overly complex -- as a master in destruction I feel that I can get the chip off the pcb (of course then I won't be able to test it to see if it was bad or not....)

Re: reading the schematic and datasheet you are dealing with someone who can take a tree and turn it into a trestle table, but who reads data sheets upside down. Perhaps I shouldn't have started this project but I'm in too far to stop now. Thanks for your continued support. Williamws3


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello Valery, I have ordered two of the IR1153chips from Digikey so no need to send them. I looked at the SMD rework station and it seems overly complex -- as a master in destruction I feel that I can get the chip off the pcb (of course then I won't be able to test it to see if it was bad or not....)
> 
> Re: reading the schematic and datasheet you are dealing with someone who can take a tree and turn it into a trestle table, but who reads data sheets upside down. Perhaps I shouldn't have started this project but I'm in too far to stop now. Thanks for your continued support. Williamws3


Hi William - just try not to rip off the PCB traces as you are removing the chip. 

Before measuring any additional voltages etc, let's get the chip replaced.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Question about three phase input:
So as I understand it, the main reason, why three phase is a problem is, that the rectified (european) voltage of a six diode bridge rectifier is too high (560V DC).

But what about three single rectifier, one per phase and connecting the DC outputs (325V) together?

That would lower the costs and fit the input voltage of the smart charger.

Just a thought ...
Michael


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

brainzel said:


> Question about three phase input:
> So as I understand it, the main reason, why three phase is a problem is, that the rectified (european) voltage of a six diode bridge rectifier is too high (560V DC).
> 
> But what about three single rectifier, one per phase and connecting the DC outputs (325V) together?
> ...


Well yes and no...!

You cant connect full 3p input to common load. In that case capacitor being the load. You have to use three separate loads. It would cause all kinds of short circuit. Believe me i tried before... N line has to be connected together somewhere behind bridges and that creates star circuit (short).

Also i tried using 3phase bridge with 1200V components and there is a point at 40A when 150A IGBT gets blown. But i still dont know if it was 
IGBT or was it driver? I did use 1200V rated driver! 

My solution is:
1. connect 3ph bridge to use only + output (3 diodes) and connect the N line to - of the capacitor. It works very well!!! But being halfbridge it can use only half energy from the lines. I run it up to 6kW output.

2. use three smaller chargers each connected to its own phase L1 L2 L3 with common N, each using its own cap bank. Then the load should be more level and you could pull like 10kW load from circuit with N load resulting as single phase load. 
I am working on this one now. The trade off is more parts and 3 output inductors. HEAVY.

My solution would be to build 3 small cap banks and use 3 TO247 IGBTs at 35kHz which would allow for much smaller inductors. Current trough each TOs would be cca 25A so inductors can be even smaller. But i dont know if control could run single PWM signal for three IGBTs...

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

I found this article. 
http://ecee.colorado.edu/copec/paper_archives/interleavedzerocurrent_nov2007.pdf
More complex buck converter but they built succesfull 3phase application! As i read here my IGBT overheated too fast and blew because junction was too hot. If i had two of them interleaving at Zero current my charger would have survived and fed at least 60A if not more.

Check it out, i think i will build one with my driver board using your control board.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> I found this article.
> http://ecee.colorado.edu/copec/paper_archives/interleavedzerocurrent_nov2007.pdf
> ...


Thanks! We are actually building a buck based pfc 3 phase 30kw charger for an industrial customer. It requires real time pwm management and recalculation of duty cycles every 50us...

We should have something by aug


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> I found this article.
> http://ecee.colorado.edu/copec/paper_archives/interleavedzerocurrent_nov2007.pdf
> ...


I've just read it. It will have the same problems with 3-phase as the current buck. Their 3-phase application is a 3-phase inverter or 3-phase boost. No buck. Maybe I am missing something, though.

Valery


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Hi William - just try not to rip off the PCB traces as you are removing the chip.
> 
> Before measuring any additional voltages etc, let's get the chip replaced.


Hello Valery, We have now replaced the IR1153 chip and I was extremely careful in soldering the pins so I'm sure it was not overheated.

I'm getting the same voltages as before: 
Vbop 172 v
Vout zero v
Vovp 174 v
G to E pins on IGBT's about 15 v both sides
bottom two contacts on IGBT's 173v both sides
LCD screen says 356v input (but only 120vac is connected in charger input)

Can you tell what is happening from this, or suggest any other places to debug?
Thanks, William 3


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello Valery, We have now replaced the IR1153 chip and I was extremely careful in soldering the pins so I'm sure it was not overheated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your wrong input voltage is caused by the pc817 chip on the driver board ... Adjusting it is described in the latest pfc manual near the bottom ...


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

crackerjackz said:


> Your wrong input voltage is caused by the pc817 chip on the driver board ... Adjusting it is described in the latest pfc manual near the bottom ...



Thanks Crackerjackz, but i'm still confused. I don't think I am looking at the place in the manual to which you refer. I don't know which is the pc817 chip, there's no listing for it on the driver board parts list. Also in the new debugging paragraph, it gives instructions for pressing the LCD buttons to change the settings. However there doesn't appear to be a way to set the input voltage -- it just sows up as 356v. Is this a problem? 

Per your earlier suggestion I have re-soldered the connections on the driver board -- no obvious problem there. 

Per Valery's debugging list, I have checked the IR1153 pin 5/6 voltage and it is 2.28vdc --okay. But the IR1153 pin4 shows zero volts -- not okay. What do I do next?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

crackerjackz said:


> pstechpaul .... thanks for your help about the pc817 chip issues .... sure enough it is fixable in the software from valerys instructions which he just added to the pfc build notes .... I will be doing this as soon as my time allows as I am in the hurrying process of officially ordering my sinoploy cells and need to figure out what fits ect and transfer money to canev before wednsday  ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is in the pfc build notes its to correct bad readinds of input voltage .... U for sure have a pc817 chip ... Its on the top left part of the driver board v13 unless you dont have a version 13? ... Its a 4 pin chip ...


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks for your quick response Crackerjackz, now I see where the instructions are in the manual. We are not quite that far yet -- still stuck on the 'limited test of power plus logic.'
We're only getting 174 vdc on the lower points of the igbt's (should get 350 v) so we're trying to debug that, kind of floundering around with it.
No voltage on pin 4 of the IR1153 chip -- any suggestions what to do about that? Yrs, william 3


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

I just went back and looked at your earlier photos of your driver board and it looks to me like your diode D2 is installed backwards and thus blocking the Vbop signal from getting to pin 4 on the IR1153 chip

respectfully,
John


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello JohnN, thank you vey much for checking my work. Yes,the diode was reversed. I have put it in place correctly and now I have 2.27vdc on the IR1153 pin 4.

But still only 174 v on the IGBT bottom two terminals. Something else must be wrong.... Can anyone else see my mistake?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

As much as id love to help i can only help with what ive done ... I have a non pfc version emw charger ... Some parts are the same but lots arent :s ... 

If you only have 174 volts but should have over 300 obviously your voltage doubler part isnt doing its job ... From what i understand because the first igbt isnt opening ? Check the pcb files with pcb express ... You can go to the different layers of the boards by pressing either the arrows pointing down or up with red and green on the top part of the program ... Use your tester and make sure continuity is good between parts ... This is how i found i had a bad weld on my arduino inputs which made my buttons not work ...


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Williamws3 said:


> Hello JohnN, thank you vey much for checking my work. Yes,the diode was reversed. I have put it in place correctly and now I have 2.27vdc on the IR1153 pin 4.
> 
> But still only 174 v on the IGBT bottom two terminals. Something else must be wrong.... Can anyone else see my mistake?


Please post pics of both sides of your Bridge Board. Also if you could take a high resolution slow panning video of your unit something may jump out at one of the DIY viewers.

Does anyone have a link to this versions schematic?

Thanks 2010Ranger


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

thanks to all 3 of you guys for your help today. I'm slightly reluctant to take apart the bridge board since it is heavily soldered to the power board (not fastened with standoffs). But I can do that Ranger if you think it may help.

Schematics of these boards are at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V1...layouts/EMW_SmartCharge-12000_schematics-V12/ but you need a special program to read them.

Valery -- do you have any other suggestions? Would I have blown out something else by putting the diode in backwards?


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

is this your doubler (on the left)?
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14920&d=1354514056
Might you be using the 240v inputs with 110v?


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello DCB, Geez, I don't think my charger has a doubler. Nothing about it in the build manual and there is only one pair of AC input connections. Sorry, I can build furniture and mechanical stuff pretty well but reading schematics is not a great skill here.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

What software is needed to open those .sch files? Eagle doesn't like 'em.


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

dcb said:


> What software is needed to open those .sch files? Eagle doesn't like 'em.


Hi DCB, there is a link near the beginning of the build manual. http://www.expresspcb.com


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Here are the schematics I have for the V12 boards:

















I also have PDF versions here:
http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/

[edit] I don't see where the 15V power for the IR1153 comes from. I assume there is a +/- 15V DC-DC converter somewhere not explicitly shown.

From what I see, the PFC circuit acts as a high frequency boost converter that gets 340-380 VAC from 85-265 VAC, so it is not really a voltage doubler. Without this active circuit, the output of the FWB rectifier will be about 1.4 times the RMS input, or 120 to 371 volts. A voltage doubler could be constructed from the FWB by connecting half of the large capacitors from the (+) of the bridge to the input low side (N), and the others from N to the bridge (-). Then you will get voltage doubling without using an active boost converter. Like this:










PS: It may be helpful to read the application note for the design of the PFC using the IR1153. Particularly, the recommended circuit uses two voltage dividers on the output, one for regulation and the other for OVP. The design of the EMW charger uses a single divider and connects the two pins together. I could not find a specific prohibition against this, but there must be a reason for the two dividers. It may be that the two feedback loops have different time constants or hysteresis. There should be a theory of operation for the charger explaining such design decisions.
http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1167.pdf


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Particularly, the recommended circuit uses two voltage dividers on the output, one for regulation and the other for OVP. The design of the EMW charger uses a single divider and connects the two pins together. I could not find a specific prohibition against this, but there must be a reason for the two dividers. It may be that the two feedback loops have different time constants or hysteresis. There should be a theory of operation for the charger explaining such design decisions.
> http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1167.pdf


Thanks Paul for your usual thorough commentary.

Combined OVP / reg resistors are not a factor here. OVP kicks in only at 105% of regulation voltage so there is a 5% margin. We never had any issues with that.

dcb - you would use ExpressPCB/ExpressSCH to read the .sch and .pcb files provided on our site.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Williamws3 said:


> thanks to all 3 of you guys for your help today. I'm slightly reluctant to take apart the bridge board since it is heavily soldered to the power board (not fastened with standoffs). But I can do that Ranger if you think it may help.
> 
> Schematics of these boards are at http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V1...layouts/EMW_SmartCharge-12000_schematics-V12/ but you need a special program to read them.
> 
> Valery -- do you have any other suggestions? Would I have blown out something else by putting the diode in backwards?


William - I think at this point the best thing you can do is to send you driver board to us.


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> William - I think at this point the best thing you can do is to send you driver board to us.


Thanks, Valery, it's in today's mail to you at the Hamilton Ave Palo Alto address. Maybe I should sent the rest of the charger and pay you to debug it?

Anyway let me know what you find out with the driver board. Williamws3


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

hi valery ... its me again  ... everything was going fine with my charger almost a month ago ... hadn't had time to touch it since ... the only thing I needed left to do was adjust the pc817 chip reading ... while following your instructions I managed to make the igbt go on full on all time again ... meaning another blown igbt ... is it your instructions or something else I don't know ... ill explain ... 

1. plugged the 5000 watt 600 volt water heater to the dc output of the charger 
2. put 120 volts ac onto the input of the charger 
3.fans start /screen goes live ...
4. I let the charger go into charging mode at my last config ... 30 cells 10 amps max in 10 amps max out ...
5. everything is fine 
6. I take out my tester and put the negative lead to the g inputon the driver board .
7. take my right lead and put it on the mv input of the driver board .
8. tester is in dc mode as I supposed it should be ? as that's not in the instructions... tester reads 2.0 then 1.998 then 2.0 so I hold it there for I dunno maybe 3 seconds ... then the numbers jump to 3.1 then 3.9 then lights flash and breaker goes pop ... I figured I must of had to many things plugged into my outlet ( lithium Milwaukee battery charger , extra 400 watt work light and laptop ) so I unplug everything else and put the breaker back on ... I run to my tester which is now on the dc output and surprise 300 some odd volts dc appear and pop goes the breaker again ... 


can holding the tester in dc volts on the mv and g pins of the driver board have an affect on charger output ?

were does the charger save its calibration measurements ... meaning if the charger isn't used for over a month does it have to be recalibrated or do the numbers get saved to an eeprom or other ? ...

it just doesn't make sense .... everything was fine a month ago ... I had tested it with 120 and 240 to 10 amps in and out but I was limited in power output to 1.5 kw because it only read 120 volts ... now a month later in which it hasn't moved ... I even checked the connections in case everything was and is fine ... I plug it in everything is fine and goes fine ... then I check the voltages of mv and g ... pop goes the weasel ... wtf is going on ?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> hi valery ... its me again  ... everything was going fine with my charger almost a month ago ... hadn't had time to touch it since ... the only thing I needed left to do was adjust the pc817 chip reading ... while following your instructions I managed to make the igbt go on full on all time again ... meaning another blown igbt ... is it your instructions or something else I don't know ... ill explain ...
> 
> 1. plugged the 5000 watt 600 volt water heater to the dc output of the charger
> 2. put 120 volts ac onto the input of the charger
> ...


was it putting out any current when you started measuring?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> was it putting out any current when you started measuring?



I didnt verify honestly ... I had just finished the time outs to start the charge ... But just before that i had it charging the heater element with amps and all ... Then i unplugged read your instructions and replugged then did the voltage tests


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The only thing I can see here that would cause the IGBT to be destroyed is if the gate G2 would turn on unexpectedly. I don't see how measuring the voltage of mv input to G would cause this. The G net is also identified by the triangular ground symbol. It seems like the E2 net is not explicitly connected to the G net, and they may be isolated, or perhaps connected at some point not shown on the schematic.

It seems that if Q1-2 turns on, it will draw current through the main inductor L1 and the diode bridge and the NTC limiting resistor, from the AC line. If this is a 30 amp circuit the breaker should trip instantaneously at 300-600 amps, but that could be as long as 3 cycles or 50 mSec. A fast-acting fuse would give better protection and actual sub-cycle current limiting so that the I^2t rating of the IGBT might not be exceeded.

There may be a way to provide better and faster protection for the IGBT, by sensing an extreme overcurrent event and triggering a latch (such as an SCR) that will short the G2 to E2 gate signal. I feel frustrated that I cannot provide more definitive help. I'd be willing to have a look at one of these problematic chargers to see if I can find any design problems or way to protect the major components from damage. I know that Valery is rather swamped and I know how difficult it can be to address these problems. Send me a PM if you would be willing to send me a partially completed charger or PCBs to look at.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> The only thing I can see here that would cause the IGBT to be destroyed is if the gate G2 would turn on unexpectedly. I don't see how measuring the voltage of mv input to G would cause this. The G net is also identified by the triangular ground symbol. It seems like the E2 net is not explicitly connected to the G net, and they may be isolated, or perhaps connected at some point not shown on the schematic.
> 
> It seems that if Q1-2 turns on, it will draw current through the main inductor L1 and the diode bridge and the NTC limiting resistor, from the AC line. If this is a 30 amp circuit the breaker should trip instantaneously at 300-600 amps, but that could be as long as 3 cycles or 50 mSec. A fast-acting fuse would give better protection and actual sub-cycle current limiting so that the I^2t rating of the IGBT might not be exceeded.
> 
> There may be a way to provide better and faster protection for the IGBT, by sensing an extreme overcurrent event and triggering a latch (such as an SCR) that will short the G2 to E2 gate signal. I feel frustrated that I cannot provide more definitive help. I'd be willing to have a look at one of these problematic chargers to see if I can find any design problems or way to protect the major components from damage. I know that Valery is rather swamped and I know how difficult it can be to address these problems. Send me a PM if you would be willing to send me a partially completed charger or PCBs to look at.


Thank you Paul for your generous offer! I hope that we together figure this out. 

Just as a reference - we are now building 2-3 of these complete units every week (although only PFC version these days) and so far had only one case of field charger failure in normal use (just last week, actually - are investigating next week when we get the unit into the lab).


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I dont doubt for a second valery that your pfc unit perfprms well ... It is well documented and has been built over and over again plus your schematics and pcb files are sll for this unit ...

You know were i stand in referance to the non pfc unit .... I just regret not having put the extra 400$ in the beginning to buy it :s what sucks most is it wasnt a money decision it was simply not needed ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Pstechpaul were are you from ? ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Honestly the timing is wrong for me to continue fixing this thing right now ... Im going to order an elcon 1500 charger with my cells to start off ... In june when the car is passed inspection ect ill be getting back to this thing ... I havent changed my mind about this charger and i definetly will complete it i just dont have the time these days and i want the beamer out of my garage and finished this june  ...

I just dont get why it would work fine one day then not the other ? 

You had asked me valery if the charger was putting out amps ? In either case could testing the voltage of mv to g have caused the igbt to go full on ?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am just N of Baltimore, MD. Send me a PM if you'd like to have me take a look at your charger. No guarantees (except that I'll get it back to you). I'm curious to see how it's built.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Honestly the timing is wrong for me to continue fixing this thing right now ... Im going to order an elcon 1500 charger with my cells to start off ... In june when the car is passed inspection ect ill be getting back to this thing ... I havent changed my mind about this charger and i definetly will complete it i just dont have the time these days and i want the beamer out of my garage and finished this june  ...
> 
> I just dont get why it would work fine one day then not the other ?
> 
> You had asked me valery if the charger was putting out amps ? In either case could testing the voltage of mv to g have caused the igbt to go full on ?


highly unlikely that just measuring the voltage on those pins would cause this. Accidentally shorting or disconnecting something due to pressure from measurement probes could but impossible to know, really.

I am playing with an idea of a streaming video 'show' of the assembly of our kits with audience participation - we would take one of the assembled unit orders and assemble in front of the camera, taking questions from the audience as we go. Probably in 3-4 segments. Then post the whole thing (including the comments / questions and our answers) to our site. What do you guys think?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think most important would be a step-by-step start-up and calibration procedure, showing exactly where to place DMM and scope probes, and the AC and DC voltages and waveforms to be expected. The assembly probably only needs to show mounting and soldering of critical components. No need to show each resitor and capacitor being inserted and soldered, unless the orientation is "peculiar".

For production test sets I design, I make a test procedure using a spreadsheet, and start with basic visual inspection, verification of grounds and isolation, HiPot testing as appropriate, initial power-up, power supply voltages, clock frequencies, etc. There are tolerances for everything except simple yes/no OK/FAIL checks, and there are usually test points on the PCB with holes big enough to hold the point of a probe. I also provide a bare wire jumper on the PCB where the analog and digital/power grounds are joined, and this is a convenient place for a ground clip.

Here is an example of a data sheet. There is also a more verbose and detailed procedure that accompanies this:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18851&stc=1&d=1399186435


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## DaMenaCe (Apr 29, 2014)

how you doing Valery??

i am very new to EV conversion and i am sort of confused as if your products "Juicebox" and "Juicebox premium" are meant for Any converted cars or its a replacement option for OEM chargers provided by manufactured EVs. Again apologies if this is a silly question, clearly i am ignorant enough about the EVs to be confused.

I am in process of gathering information to convert one on very tight budget and i am searching for a reliable Battery charger. 

Thanks,
Dennis.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

I agree with pstechpaul valery ... The pfc version instructions would be plenty enough for me ... The problem is keeping them up to date !! And debugging as mentioned by paul . Your newly added debugging section is a great start ... 

As for non pfc well its just critically lagging behind :s ...


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

I think it would be a great idea and resource. I've watched all of your videos and have the following constructive comments. 1. Video only in HD at an optimum angles. 2. No back ground music. 3. Work from a script to keep small details from being misplaced in the dialog timeline. 4. Use a lapel microphone for the assembler. And ditto to PStechPaul's comments.

Can wait !!! 2010 Ranger


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

http://youtu.be/K6VKBMTaGR4

Always love watching damien maguires videos even more now that hes getting into the emw charger build and tweeking  ....


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Pretty good video, but it could be shortened quite a bit and still give all the information needed. I'm not sure I particularly like his idea of using the heat-conductive epoxy as he did for the inductors. I think it would be much better to put a tube around the outside and inside of each of the toroids, and then fill the space with a smaller amount of the epoxy. It would be less expensive, the toroids would be removeable if necessary, and would probably make a neater looking job.

Also, I think it would be better to put another rubber gasket on the top side and use washers made of phenolic or steel. You can get toroid mounting kits from www.toroid.com and they include two rubber gaskets and an indented steel washer for the bolt through the center.
http://www.toroid.com/mounting_hardware/mounting_hardware.htm


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## Andilux (Mar 16, 2014)

HI Users !

If somebody Needs an ready working EMW Charger please say to me. I dont can use it on three phases and so maybe some other People can Need it.

please send me an email [email protected]

lg Andreas


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys - 

We will be ordering a new batch of PCBs shortly. Now is a good time to make some tweaks / add / subtract things. 

Ideas?

Valery


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## Zak650 (Sep 20, 2008)

valerun said:


> Hi Guys -
> 
> We will be ordering a new batch of PCBs shortly. Now is a good time to make some tweaks / add / subtract things.
> 
> ...


Dotted lines around components that are to be left empty in non-pfc chargers, solid lines around components that are used in both.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

ok just finished the first version of the updated power PCB (PFC only, we will not be offering non-PFC kits / units beyond this batch per cracker's suggestion). 

New:
1. Moved all HV voltage dividers to power board. No more HV wiring going to driver board
2. Ability to run up to 800V output! Elcaps are now wired in series. 200-250V caps used for a standard 350V output configuration, 400-450V - for 800V configuration. Clearances are increased, as well. 
3. Larger vias for wires going to driver board
4. Change bridge board to bridge module (3-phase 150A rectifier)

Any other mods to power section?

V


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> ok just finished the first version of the updated power PCB (PFC only, we will not be offering non-PFC kits / units beyond this batch per cracker's suggestion).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup i did say you should stop selling these kits if you werent willing to keep the instructions up to date like the pfc versions ... Makes me sad you quite so easily .. Your choice not mine but its definetly best that way ... It will save a lot of time and anger to you and builders ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Yup i did say you should stop selling these kits if you werent willing to keep the instructions up to date like the pfc versions ... Makes me sad you quite so easily .. Your choice not mine but its definetly best that way ... It will save a lot of time and anger to you and builders ...


well, with 95% of orders for PFC, we just can't maintain the non-PFC at the same level. So there it goes.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

William - we have tested your board, replaced the IR chip and it works on our stand. It will be sent back to you tomorrow.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I hate to be "that guy", I really appreciate all your work (and everyone elses) on this and the parent thread.

I wanted to expand on my own experience with arduino in automotive environments. I abandoned it and went with straight C/C++ fairly early on because of the issues encountered.

Indeed there are issues:
http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/node/380
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=50780.0

One of the main problems I see (aside from instabilities between IDE/toolchain versions) is that a bootloader means that the chip can modify its own programming. And if anything happens (i.e. weird brownout/surge, unanticipated bug) it can, and eventually will mess itself. At best it will fail nicely, at worst it wont limit charging when it is supposed to.
So while it has achieved production like status/pricing, it is still hobby grade at its core. While I "get" the marketing appeal of using arduino in the name, it is counter to "production ready" IMHO.

Arduino seems more appropriate as a prototype tool, i.e. for sorting out a $200 diy charger, but even then I would move to a straight atmega and ensure the fuses/whatnot are set for production, and possibly just use the arduino as an isp programmer (i.e. via avrstudio->external tools->avrdude) or /signal generator-test fixture. Indeed you can use an arduino to isp program another arduino, the hardware doesn't seem to be an issue that I know of, but the firmware/chip settings do cause problems in production (though just adding an atmega with a crystal and an isp header to the pcb would be more cost effective)

But instead you are moving to the flashiest/edgiest version of arduino, and at the same time going after OEM market (not DIY)...

Just my $0.02.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dcb said:


> I hate to be "that guy", I really appreciate all your work (and everyone elses) on this and the parent thread.
> 
> I wanted to expand on my own experience with arduino in automotive environments. I abandoned it and went with straight C/C++ fairly early on because of the issues encountered.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comments dcb. You have a point, of course. 

The good news is that hardware is actually fine, like you said. So given enough prodding, one day we will just move to Atmel studio and be done with it. Using the same hardware. 

Perhaps you could help?


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> William - we have tested your board, replaced the IR chip and it works on our stand. It will be sent back to you tomorrow.


Thanks, Valery, we'll continue with power testing as soon as we get it.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Sorry to bother Valery, but I was wondering if you can take a look at those chargers I sent you in December, I really have to return the manzanita I borrowed so the Old Samba will not have a way to charge its batteries.


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> William - we have tested your board, replaced the IR chip and it works on our stand. It will be sent back to you tomorrow.


Hi Valery,

Thanks for sending back our driver board which arrived today. 

I installed it in the built charger and there's no difference. Voltage on the bottom terminals of the two IGBT's still 170v. LCD reads 194v input. 12 and 15 v between the G&E terminals of the IGBT'S. Same as before. 

Then I was just checking for voltage on the Vovp and the probe must have touched something it shouldn't have. Loud ZAP noise and smoke and the fans started to run slowly.

So pretty discouraged here again. Does anyone want a fully built charger to debug? Yours, William Smith III 401-423-0433.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'd be willing to have a look at it, but I do not have any "current" need for a high power charger. No guarantees as to when I might get around to working on it, or if I will be able to fix it. But I'm interested in looking at the design and construction, and I can document some diagnostic procedures that may help others with troubleshooting. PM me if interested, and hopefully the unit can be sent cheaply via USPS large flat rate box. I might not need the heat sinks and fans, as I would do only low power testing (100 watts or so).


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Is there any information on the construction of the "awg 10 bridge" designated R5 on the power circuit? Obviously its used for current sensing in the pfc boost stage but I don't know what length etc to make it. Many thanks.


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

Hello Valery,
Congratulations on your very useful thread which today passed the remarkable 300,000 views. It is still on its original topic too. Great Job!
Gerhard


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Damien your link on the DIYelectriccar site to the e39ev.com is not correct. Just tried it and no luck. I did go to the other link evbmw and was able to get to the e39. Thought you'd like to know...

Danny Mills, Cape Cod


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

GerhardRP said:


> Hello Valery,
> Congratulations on your very useful thread which today passed the remarkable 300,000 views. It is still on its original topic too. Great Job!
> Gerhard


;-)) thanks Gerhard.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Is there any information on the construction of the "awg 10 bridge" designated R5 on the power circuit? Obviously its used for current sensing in the pfc boost stage but I don't know what length etc to make it. Many thanks.


we take 4-5" long piece and fold in half with 2 halfs as close as possible to minimize inductance. 

This will likely be replaced by a proper current sensing resistor soon.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Screenshot of the updated power board (PFC) below. As mentioned before, changes include:
1. max input and output voltages are now 800V (up from ~425V)
2. all HV sensing circuitry is now on power board - no more high-voltage lines going to the driver board (thanks tomofreno for email discussion that led to this)
3. Additional film cap on PFC stage output to increase voltage margin for the IGBTs (soak up a bit more of the spikes) and counteract slight increase in board inductance due to slotting to accommodate series cap connections.
4. minor mods to hole sizes for easier mounting of terminals


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## John N (Sep 25, 2013)

valerun said:


> we take 4-5" long piece and fold in half with 2 halfs as close as possible to minimize inductance.
> 
> This will likely be replaced by a proper current sensing resistor soon.


If this is too short, would that be a reason why some of us are blowing IGBTs or having other problems? I just looked at the build notes again and saw that it called out ~2 inches and I know I tried to make mine as short as possible since I didn't realize at the time it was being used as a current sense resistor, just "connect(ing) the neg planes."
respectfully,
John


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Progress....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> we take 4-5" long piece and fold in half with 2 halfs as close as possible to minimize inductance.
> 
> 
> 
> This will likely be replaced by a proper current sensing resistor soon.




Im guessing this is only pfc version stuff ?? Since i dont understand what your talking about ?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sadly we will have to raise the pricing of kits from June 1st. PFC Kit prices will go up by $100 - to $1,399. Largely driven by price increase on heatsinks, IGBTs, and inductors. 

If you want to take advantage of the current pricing, place your order before June 1st. 

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Screenshot of the updated power board (PFC) below. As mentioned before, changes include:
> 1. max input and output voltages are now 800V (up from ~425V)
> 2. all HV sensing circuitry is now on power board - no more high-voltage lines going to the driver board (thanks tomofreno for email discussion that led to this)
> 3. Additional film cap on PFC stage output to increase voltage margin for the IGBTs (soak up a bit more of the spikes) and counteract slight increase in board inductance due to slotting to accommodate series cap connections.
> 4. minor mods to hole sizes for easier mounting of terminals


Hm

Can you tell me if it is possible to run your PFC charger from 3phase 600V then? I mean 600VDC rectified would get to 580VDC real with some 16A input yes? That would be my network capability...
I read somewhere that PFC cant be done easily for 3phase in joint system. It has to be done each phase by itself... 
Would your PFC stage system at least manage driving the 600VDC output efficiently?

tnx

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't know why PFC would be necessary for three phase input. And I think an actual 600 VAC supply would produce close to 900 VDC after rectification and filtering. I tried to find something on 3 phase PFC:

http://iecon2008.auburn.edu/files/Smedley.pdf
http://www.ixys.com/Documents/AppNotes/IXAN0001.pdf
http://www.deltartp.com/dpel/dpelconferencepapers/APEC12Jang.pdf

So it can be done and has been implemented, but it seems rather complex for the relatively small improvement of PF.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hm
> 
> Can you tell me if it is possible to run your PFC charger from 3phase 600V then? I mean 600VDC rectified would get to 580VDC real with some 16A input yes? That would be my network capability...
> I read somewhere that PFC cant be done easily for 3phase in joint system. It has to be done each phase by itself...
> ...


Our 3-phase system is not PFC at this point. The board has been reworked to allow for use of elcaps in series so we can get the rectified voltage up to 900V. Of course, we'd use 1200V IGBTs in this case.


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

valerun said:


> Screenshot of the updated power board (PFC) below. As mentioned before, changes include:
> 1. max input and output voltages are now 800V (up from ~425V)
> 2. all HV sensing circuitry is now on power board - no more high-voltage lines going to the driver board (thanks tomofreno for email discussion that led to this)
> 3. Additional film cap on PFC stage output to increase voltage margin for the IGBTs (soak up a bit more of the spikes) and counteract slight increase in board inductance due to slotting to accommodate series cap connections.
> 4. minor mods to hole sizes for easier mounting of terminals


Hello Valery, It's very nice to hear that now there are no high voltages on the driver board. I believe that a very small slip of my probe when I was trying to measure the voltage on the driver board Vovp solder joint is what led to the high voltage short which has incapacitated my charger. The new design is undoubtedly safer if it keeps the high voltages in one area only.

I don't know what to do next to debug the charger. How do I find out what damage if any the high voltage short did to the driver board or the igbt's? And how do I proceed to debug the charger, which was not working before I made the high voltage short?

Can you offer a retrofit to my kit so that I could incorporate the new changes?

An other help you could offer me? Thanks, William Smith III 401-423-0433


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Our 3-phase system is not PFC at this point. The board has been reworked to allow for use of elcaps in series so we can get the rectified voltage up to 900V. Of course, we'd use 1200V IGBTs in this case.


Hm, very good! 

How about driver board? Last i checked the driver chip was 600VDC rated. 
I replaced mine with the 1200V version of the same, but it still blew with 1200V IGBT. I guessed duty of 27% was too much for transistor junction so it melted.
Voltage difference from 600VDC to 150VDC is too much and i should probably use two stage buck or some form of isolated charger. But for now half bridge 3phase works great at 6kW and frankly i dont need any more .

My friend is working on Audi TT with 420VDC voltage or more though. I belive your 600VDC 3ph charger would be applicable then with some 75% duty.

Can you provide schematics and pcbs for the driver and power board of this voltage so we can DIY? 

TNX

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hm, very good!
> 
> How about driver board? Last i checked the driver chip was 600VDC rated.
> I replaced mine with the 1200V version of the same, but it still blew with 1200V IGBT. I guessed duty of 27% was too much for transistor junction so it melted.
> ...


Arber - will definitely provide once we test them and all that - the intention is to make these the next version of the kit, so it's definitely going to stay open source and the docs will definitely be released. 

We just got the power boards from the PCB house. Look nice. Assembled one, no immediate issues which is nice. ;-)

Driver & control boards arrive on Fri so weekend is going to be fun. 

We would use 516-1879-5-ND for over 500V operation. That said, we have used 3120 chip up to 800V so far with no issues. 

Re step-down from 600 to 150 - it's perfectly fine. Why do you think it is sub-optimal? As long as you can measure output voltage precisely and control it with enough resolution, you should be perfectly fine. 

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Arber - will definitely provide once we test them and all that - the intention is to make these the next version of the kit, so it's definitely going to stay open source and the docs will definitely be released.
> 
> We just got the power boards from the PCB house. Look nice. Assembled one, no immediate issues which is nice. ;-)
> 
> ...


Well yes from 600VDCin to 150VDCout it is good for up to 30A charging. Any more than that junction is toast - my two poor 1200V IGBTs can tell you that... So if i can charge 40+A from 3phase halfbridge 320VDC and have no problems, why i would bother with flimsy 30A from fullbridge charger. Sure if my pack voltage would be 360VDC i would get clear 10kW out! 

Next car will be 320VDC for sure!

A


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Valery, help a brother out, I need a charger.


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## patrick1 (Dec 26, 2013)

hey whats up im just checking the status of my charger?? hope all is going well


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

patrick1 said:


> hey whats up im just checking the status of my charger?? hope all is going well


Hi Patrick - your programmed Arduino is on its way. Charger will be back to you on Fri.

Thanks!
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Valery, help a brother out, I need a charger.


Jehu - your unit is going back to you this Sat. Thanks!


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Congratulations Valery.... I hear you've sold Jack 10 premium Juice Boxes.

2010 Ranger


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

*WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*

My charger build went fairly smoothly....as did the testing. I installed it in the car and did my first charge. As well as a few top-ups after some test drives. It would not switch to CV stage, but I think I have to adjust that number in the code.

Anyway....I presumably had a working charger.

So I go to plug it in the other night....BZZZIP...with a small spark.

WTF????

I pulled the charger and what do I find? A fried output resistor. So I changed it and re-tested. This time with no mains power - just the 12V control circuitry.

This time sizzle and smoke from the 15V output DC/DC converter.

Are you kidding me?

After some testing, it looks like the output IGBT is toast also. Just great...

Does anyone here have any idea why the OUTPUT circuitry would suddenly do this? Especially RIGHT AFTER PLUGGING IN? I did NOT even START the charge yet??? I would expect something like this from the PFC stage - and NOT the output stage. Suggestions?

Also, suggestions on where to buy "quality" IGBT's? I don't see them on EMW site anymore???

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*



Old.DSMer said:


> My charger build went fairly smoothly....as did the testing. I installed it in the car and did my first charge. As well as a few top-ups after some test drives. It would not switch to CV stage, but I think I have to adjust that number in the code.
> 
> Anyway....I presumably had a working charger.
> 
> ...


That resistor is sitting between gate and emitter of the output IGBT. Its function is to not allow output IGBT to turn on without a driving signal from A3120. 

What is your battery voltage and how is it connected to the charger?

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

2010Ranger said:


> Congratulations Valery.... I hear you've sold Jack 10 premium Juice Boxes.
> 
> 2010 Ranger


right. thanks. it's a bit scary as Jack is known for torturing hardware on his shows ;-) But I think these will survive.. We'll see

V


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

*Re: WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*



valerun said:


> That resistor is sitting between gate and emitter of the output IGBT. Its function is to not allow output IGBT to turn on without a driving signal from A3120.
> 
> What is your battery voltage and how is it connected to the charger?
> 
> V


My battery is 86s - so 275V nominal. Sits around 280 after a charge. I have an output diode on the positive side. Blue Sea pack disconnect switch on the negative side. Then wired direct to the most positive and most negative of the traction pack. I know I need to get a fuse in there as well, just haven't done it yet.

I don't recall seeing an answer to this question:


John N said:


> If this is too short, would that be a reason why some of us are blowing IGBTs or having other problems? I just looked at the build notes again and saw that it called out ~2 inches and I know I tried to make mine as short as possible since I didn't realize at the time it was being used as a current sense resistor, just "connect(ing) the neg planes."
> respectfully,
> John


Could that be my problem? My version also called for ~2" and as per the instructions, I used the remaining wire to reinforce the negative side of my diode bridge.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

The output of the PC817 chip varies with temperature resulting in variation of absMaxChargerPower with temperature. As a result, the max power the charger uses from an EVSE is temperature dependent due to the mainsV variable:

*absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6.4/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6.4A input*

For example, at 30 C and actual mains voltage of VAC=246V, the PC817 output is mainsV= 175V, reducing power by about 29%. At 9 C and VAC=245V mainsV=200V, resulting in 18% reduction. The PC817 chips are highly variable (see post by PStechPaul), so of course others will likely give different results and data would have to be gathered for each specific chip.

I made the following changes to the firmware to correct for this variability with temperature using a simple regression equation I fitted to half a dozen data points I recorded at start up of the charger (before it starts charging) for Vin and VAC as functions of temperature. The EKM meter at charger input supplied the VAC values and heat sink temperature was taken as ambient temperature (agreed with thermometer hanging nearby).

1) Added:

*float Ta=0; //ambient temperature variable used to modify mainsV* 

at end of global variables (needs this scope because I want to use it in the void loop() function as well as the void setup() function).

2) Added this code at end of void setup (), just before the closing bracket – so it only runs once at charger startup ensuring Ta is the heatsink temperature at startup: 

*//Assign value to ambient temperature variable Ta by reading heatsink temperature once at startup of charger*
*Ta=read_heatSinkT();*

I am assuming here that the charger hasn’t been running so heat sink temp is a good approximation of PC817 temperature. Of course PC817 temp might drift as the charger runs. I don’t account for this effect – if it did drift much I would expect that charger output current would change with time. I haven’t observed this. Heat sink temperature will likely be significantly greater than the PC817 temperature if the charger has been running a while, so if the charger is shut off after running a while, then re-started, it will overcorrect mainsV giving too high a value. In this case in order to get a more correct Vin value, the charger would have to be interrupted during startup to let the fans run to cool the heat sink before resuming charging. 

3) Modified mainsV to make it a function of ambient temperature so that it reads the corrected value to the LCD and uses it in other parts of the code (note the parentheses around read_mV(), you’ll get a unary error without these:

*mainsV=(read_mV())*(1.1412+0.009137*Ta); //modified to correct for temperature variation of PC817 output*

4) Also added temperature correction for mainsV near end of “main charger loop” section of firmware:

*mainsV=(read_mV())*(1.1412+0.009137*Ta); // only infrequently as the averaging interval is pretty long (10mS), corrected for temperature variation of PC817*


After making these modifications the display read Vin = 239V at start up for 17C ambient and the EKM meter read VAC = 240.8V, a 0.7% error (would have been about 24% error at this temperature without correction). AC input current to the charger from the EVSE was 32A (EKM meter). AC voltage pulled down to 232V resulting in input power of about 7.4kW, so the modifications seem to work ok.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I did not realize that the output of the PC817 was used for anything other than determining whether the input was 120 or 240V nominal (or whatever the two rated mains are). Even that is not assured unless the load resistor is selected and the software has proper limits. If the ADC reading is used for any sort of power or VA computation, or even for a display value, then "all bets are off". The input resistors (IIRC) are set to supply a very low current to the LED of the optocoupler, even lower than its recommended lower limit, and thus the photodiode/transistor will have a highly variable current transfer ratio which may depend on temperature as well as aging effects. If the failures can be traced to this, or even suspected, I would remove the PC817 entirely and patch in either an isolation amplifier or make a differential amplifier that will produce an accurate voltage representative of the input. It may even be better to monitor the AC input directly and not the rectified DC supply. It is fairly easy to take enough samples to measure a 50/60 Hz waveform and obtain an average (or even true RMS) value in software.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I did not realize that the output of the PC817 was used for anything other than determining whether the input was 120 or 240V nominal (or whatever the two rated mains are). Even that is not assured unless the load resistor is selected and the software has proper limits. If the ADC reading is used for any sort of power or VA computation, or even for a display value, then "all bets are off". The input resistors (IIRC) are set to supply a very low current to the LED of the optocoupler, even lower than its recommended lower limit, and thus the photodiode/transistor will have a highly variable current transfer ratio which may depend on temperature as well as aging effects. If the failures can be traced to this, or even suspected, I would remove the PC817 entirely and patch in either an isolation amplifier or make a differential amplifier that will produce an accurate voltage representative of the input. It may even be better to monitor the AC input directly and not the rectified DC supply. It is fairly easy to take enough samples to measure a 50/60 Hz waveform and obtain an average (or even true RMS) value in software.


I only have data for 6 or 7 different temperatures (9 to 30C range), but I have a number of data points at most temperatures from different EVSE's with different voltage levels and the difference in VAC and Vin is actually fairly repeatable as a function of temperature, not nearly as bad as you seem to think Paul. It's actually not a big deal, I've been doing ok by just adding a fudge factor into the J1772 power calculation, usually getting around 6.5kW from 240V EVSE's. But I had to increase the fudge factor as springtime temperatures arrived and the PC817 output decreased. I'll test this a while and see how it works.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> I only have data for 6 or 7 different temperatures (9 to 30C range), but I have a number of data points at most temperatures from different EVSE's with different voltage levels and the difference in VAC and Vin is actually fairly repeatable as a function of temperature, not nearly as bad as you seem to think Paul. It's actually not a big deal, I've been doing ok by just adding a fudge factor into the J1772 power calculation, usually getting around 6.5kW from 240V EVSE's. But I had to increase the fudge factor as springtime temperatures arrived and the PC817 output decreased. I'll test this a while and see how it works.


yes, if you just fit your specific PC817, this is fine. These are Tom's mods to the code that he is sharing with the rest of the group so you guys can use this in your chargers if you like. 

In the stock charger firmware, PC817 is used as suggested by Paul - just separate 120V and 240V. In the current version, we are shipping PC817 variant that has relatively small production spread of CTRs so it has been pretty stable (as in, no need to recalibrate the code in the last 10-15 units we shipped).

V


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

To clarify, in the version 11 firmware I am using, and also in version 9 that I used previously, the below statement is in the code in order set the maximum power the charger draws from an EVSE based on the duty cycle (J1772 dur) of the EVSE signal:

*absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6.4/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6.4A input

*I first inserted a constant in the numerator of this equation to compensate for the low voltage reading of the PC817, since it was limiting the charger power draw from EVSEs significantly below what I could get with the max 32A EVSE current. As temperatures increased this spring I found that the "constant" changed considerably with temperature, so I further modified it to make it a function of temperature as described in the earlier post. Apparently EMW removed this code from newer versions of the software, since Valery remarked that "in the stock firmware" it is only used for the 120/240V determination. I don't know what version it was changed in.

Edit: It's only an issue when absMaxChargerPower is less than the max the EVSE can supply, so you could just eliminate this code from the firmware, or multiply it by a constant so it is always greater than the max the EVSE can supply, and limit power by setting input current on the charger to 32A.


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Jehu - your unit is going back to you this Sat. Thanks!


Thanks Valery, Hoping this saturday is the one.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

O lawd... Thou Shalt Not Use Phototransistor Optocouplers Open Loop.

It is easy to see that the initial accuracy of the Current Transfer Ratio (CTR) is bad - the spec in the typical datasheet spans a 2:1 range - but CTR also changes considerably with temperature _and_ age.

Secondly, the CTR is not terribly linear with respect to LED forward current. While I suppose one can use the all-too-common kludge of a lookup table in a micro to "linearize" the phototransistor, that still doesn't address temperature and aging factors, and you still need calibrate for initial CTR.

A better approach would be to use an op-amp and negative feedback to linearize and stabilize the phototransistor's output. Most commercial offline switching power supplies use the infamous TL431 adjustable shunt regulator to implement this approach because it is cheap and performs reasonably well (the main objections being low bandwidth [ie - poor transient response] and, if one is not careful, startup problems with the SMPS).

Best, however, would be to use a so-called "linear optocoupler" such as, for example, the LOC110. I leave it to the interested parties to investigate these options further.

One thing is for sure, though - using a phototransistor optocoupler "open loop" to transmit anything but a digital signal will end in tears. I wouldn't even rely on such a circuit to differentiate between 120 and 240VAC.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Where are the schematics for this open source design? i looked on page 1 and followed the links to the store, etc. but did not see or find a link to the actual circuits.


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

schematics can be found here:
http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V1...layouts/EMW_SmartCharge-12000_schematics-V12/


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If you would prefer PDFs I have them here:
http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/

Valery, you are welcome to copy them to your website. They make it easy to take a quick look without having to install ExpressPCB.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

*Re: WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*



Old.DSMer said:


> Anyway....I presumably had a working charger.
> 
> So I go to plug it in the other night....BZZZIP...with a small spark.
> 
> WTF????


Regarding my issue described above - I was just replying to RWAudio in another post. Something occurred to me that I didn't previously realize. All of my previous charging was done on 240V. The failure took place when I plugged in to 120V. Couple questions:

1. I have inrush limiters on both lines feeding the bridge. So on 240V, both hots have the limiters. But on 120V, the NEUTRAL will also have a limiter. Could this cause the problem?

2. I did need to recalibrate my PC817. And I DID notice a difference when it was warm while in the middle of a charge cycle. Clearly the temperature effects described above. During calibration with the heat sink around 35 degrees - it would not recognize 240V. It kept saying 120V. I re-adjusted the values to achieve 240V recognition. I think my value ended up around 3.75.

3. The wires from the inrush limiters to the bridge are probably around 6" and 8". They can be seen in the lower right of the image posted in my earlier thread. Based on Valery's videos and pictures, I don't think that should pose any problems either. Or do they?

All wiring and connections were secure. No detectable shorts. I'm at a loss and frankly kind of nervous about firing it back up once my new IGBTs arrive. Usually electronics don't "sort of" work. They either do...or they don't. I'm concerned that this WAS working and suddenly blew.

Any suggestions on things to check are greatly appreciated!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

120V operation should not be any different from 240V. If anything, 120V is easier on the charger, not harder. Is yours PFC or non-PFC?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*Re: WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*



Old.DSMer said:


> ... All of my previous charging was done on 240V. The failure took place when I plugged in to 120V.
> 
> 2. I did need to recalibrate my PC817...During calibration with the heat sink around 35 degrees - it would not recognize 240V. It kept saying 120V. I re-adjusted the values to achieve 240V recognition.


So after the PC817 was calibrated for 240, you were using it on 120--so might it now not recognize 120 and need recal before operating on 120?

Also did your gate driver smoke? If the power ground somehow shorted to the control ground thru a sneak circuit path, then you would have ~9 watts in that 10k 1/8w resistor--which is why it smoked. The +/-15V dc-dc converter is likely smoked since the Emitter reference line floats at the Output DC voltage (<450VDC), and the 12V supply is referenced to ground. Trying to get isolation between the high voltage pack and the driver is tricky to manage, especially when switching on the high side.

Another weird thing i noticed is the 200k bleed resistor, which for a ~360VDC PFC Voltage would mean it takes over an hour for the capacitor bank to bleed down after you shut it off.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> 120V operation should not be any different from 240V. If anything, 120V is easier on the charger, not harder. Is yours PFC or non-PFC?


Agree 100%. Its the v12/13 PFC.

Can't understand why it WORKED for a few charges and now NOTHING works.

On the buck side, I replaced the resistor, driver IC, DC/DC, and IGBT.

Now, the PFC side doesn't even work. That DC/DC still appears to be good with +/-15V on the rails.

The buck IGBT is constantly on. PFC doesn't appear to be working since I'm only getting my supply voltage output.

I'm testing with a DC power supply providing about 86V and only about 600mA. So hopefully I won't blow up anything else until I get this sorted out.

My frustration level is exploding right now. Mostly due to my lack of knowing WHY its doing this??????

I can scope the gate signals - but I don't think that will tell me much.

Anyone with suggestions on things to check???


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

*Re: WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*



kennybobby said:


> So after the PC817 was calibrated for 240, you were using it on 120--so might it now not recognize 120 and need recal before operating on 120?


My thoughts exactly - I replaced all the original parameters and it now recognizes my test voltage (86V) as 120V. So that appears to be working.




kennybobby said:


> Also did your gate driver smoke? If the power ground somehow shorted to the control ground thru a sneak circuit path, then you would have ~9 watts in that 10k 1/8w resistor--which is why it smoked. The +/-15V dc-dc converter is likely smoked since the Emitter reference line floats at the Output DC voltage (<450VDC), and the 12V supply is referenced to ground. Trying to get isolation between the high voltage pack and the driver is tricky to manage, especially when switching on the high side.


I believe you are correct. Initially the resistor blew and probably took out the gate drive. I replaced the resister but didn't replace the gate drive. Then the DC/DC went. This time, I replaced all of them. I've used isolated driver ICs in other applications. For the most part, they worked well for me. I'm starting to suspect something with Arduino. I had prior instances with PicAXE chips toasting the PWM outputs. I'm going to scope the PWM signal line to see if its latched high....might explain why the buck is constantly on. No idea why the PFC no longer works....one thing at a time I guess.



kennybobby said:


> Another weird thing i noticed is the 200k bleed resistor, which for a ~360VDC PFC Voltage would mean it takes over an hour for the capacitor bank to bleed down after you shut it off.


Mine only takes about 15-20 min to bleed down quite low (30-ish V). And yep, probably close to an hour before I see zero.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Looking a little closer at the driver schematic I see that my JPG image had cut off the bottom part. So here is the full page:










It looks like the gate driver circuit has the emitter connected to the common of the +/-15V DC-DC converter, and the A3120 uses the 15 volt rails for its output. This should be fine as long as the outputs of the DC-DC come up normally, but I wonder if it is possible to get a brief imbalance that might put an abnormal and excessive voltage on the gate? 

Also, I don't know the model or specs on the DC-DC, but sometimes the specified isolation voltage (often 500 or 1000 V) is an absolute maximum rating and the continuous rating may be much less. I had a difficult time finding a DC-DC rated for continuous operation on 480 VAC mains, and the only ones that were so rated were actually 4000 VDC with special "hardened" isolation construction which meant extra clearance and several layers of insulation, and they were quite expensive. I got them from TRACO. 

Here is an excerpt from a data sheet for a Murata 2W DC-DC converter with nominal 1 kV isolation:



> ISOLATION VOLTAGE
> 
> ‘Hi Pot Test’, ‘Flash Tested’, ‘Withstand Voltage’, ‘Proof Voltage’, ‘Dielectric Withstand Voltage’ & ‘Isolation Test Voltage’ are all terms that relate to the same thing, a test voltage,
> applied for a speciﬁed time, across a component designed to provide electrical isolation, to verify the integrity of that isolation.
> ...





It is also possible for there to be a considerable amount of capacitance from input to output of typical DC-DC converters, and on start-up, it could cause a momentary high voltage pulse to appear WRT ground. A sudden catastrophic failure at start-up seems to point to such a possibility. When I redesigned my SCR trigger board, I used special high-isolation dual E-core bobbins rather than a standard overlayed toroid winding. This, along with potting, should ensure a high isolation voltage for continuous across-the-line use, which usually requires UL or other agency testing and approval.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Hmmm... Tried to edit my post and it showed a blank. So this is just additional information. I found a similar DC-DC converter that is rated for high/low side IGBT drives and it has 5.2 kV isolation which meets agency approvals. Here is more info:

http://www.murata-ps.com/en/news/new-products/2468

Note, even with 5.2 kV hipot rating, this device is only qualified to 200 VRMS per standard safety approval. That's the problem I had with the TRACO devices as well, and I needed 480 VAC. So even 240 VAC will be more than officially approved. Maybe the well proven charge pump drive ICs are the way to go. The drives don't really "need" to be isolated, although they depend on the breakdown voltages of diodes, capacitors, resistors, and other components. Anything can fail. But it's important to design with various levels of "fail-safe" to limit damage from catastrophic failures.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> Hmmm... Tried to edit my post and it showed a blank. So this is just additional information. I found a similar DC-DC converter that is rated for high/low side IGBT drives and it has 5.2 kV isolation which meets agency approvals. Here is more info:
> 
> http://www.murata-ps.com/en/news/new-products/2468
> 
> Note, even with 5.2 kV hipot rating, this device is only qualified to 200 VRMS per standard safety approval. That's the problem I had with the TRACO devices as well, and I needed 480 VAC. So even 240 VAC will be more than officially approved. Maybe the well proven charge pump drive ICs are the way to go. The drives don't really "need" to be isolated, although they depend on the breakdown voltages of diodes, capacitors, resistors, and other components. Anything can fail. But it's important to design with various levels of "fail-safe" to limit damage from catastrophic failures.


Thanks for all the info PStechPaul...so you think the DC/DC could be the problem? If so, I'm very surprised nobody else is experiencing this. I don't really know how many chargers are out there and currently in-use versus in-build-state?

Regarding the gate drives - I have had good success with the TC4420 and IR2117 driver IC's. Very simple to implement and 600V isolation. Granted, none of my previous projects approached the high power handling of this charger. That said, driver logic and control is fairly universal regardless of power handling. There are some newer technologies now, and even some ICs with high and low side drives combined (FAN7932).

I measured the PWM on D9 of the Arduino. It appears to be working as expected. I also measured the PWM at the output pin of the control board (called "Old Out"). It was inverted. I don't recall seeing discussion of the PWM being inverted.....???

I then measured E2-->G2 = -15.48V (PFC stage)

And E1-->G1 = +13.5V (buck stage)

Shouldn't "OFF" be -15V and "ON" be +15V? And if so, what the heck is holding the buck gate at +13V??? The PWM drive is sitting around 5V, which (if the signal is inverted), should be "OFF".

I have not looked into the PFC stage yet - but if I had to guess, I'd bet on the PC817 being toast, since the drive is held at -15V.

I'm not an electronics expert by any means. But I thought I had a pretty good handle on this charger. The sudden catastrophic failure has me questioning everything - including my "perceived" understanding of this product.

Not sure where to go next.....????


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> Looking a little closer at the driver schematic I see that my JPG image had cut off the bottom part. So here is the full page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No indication of inverted gate drive. Possibly a problem on my control board and in fact, it may be holding the gate "ON" instead of "OFF". Seems to logical....I will have to double check. I normally don't use inverted drives for single FETS if it can be avoided.

I checked Digikey and they don't have a +/-15V Murata in stock.

To be honest, I'm not wanting to completely re-design the drive/control circuit. If there are as many chargers out there "working" as this thread would predict....then....its gotta be something I'm doing wrong or did wrong. Could it be improved? I think so - definitely by adding multiple layers of failure prevention. Current limiting DC/DC and possibly resetable fused inputs would be a good start.

The originally spec'd DC/DC are now shown as obsolete on the datasheets....but that doesn't mean they won't do their job. Interestingly, one of the DC/DC's I received from Digikey was DOA.
http://www.digikey.ca/product-search/en?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=ca&keywords=VESD2-S12-D15&x=0&y=0&formaction=on

Thanks for the tips, and please keep any other suggestions coming!


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Old.DSMer said:


> No indication of inverted gate drive. Possibly a problem on my control board and in fact, it may be holding the gate "ON" instead of "OFF". Seems to logical....I will have to double check. I normally don't use inverted drives for single FETS if it can be avoided.


I was correct. It is not an inverted drive. S3 also failed in the mysterious power surge - or whatever the hell happened.

So the buck stage now appears to be working as expected. PWM follows pin D9 and output IGBT E1-->G1 is now at -15V when the charger is "OFF".

Next to trouble-shoot the PFC stage. Which still is not working...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am somewhat shooting in the dark and grasping at straws trying to find anything that could be wrong with the design or the assembly that might cause the problems that seem to be occurring with this unit. Here are a few more ideas:

1) The datasheet for the CUI DC-DC converter specifies no more than 0.47 uF output filter capacitors for the 15V version, citing possible start-up problems otherwise, and this design seems to have 22-50 uF. That could cause one or both of the outputs to go into overload condition or exhibit "motorboat" oscillations and erratic output voltage for some time. If the A3120 driver does not have good noise immunity or power supply bypassing capacitors, its output could do funny things that the IGBT may not like.

2) The build notes show the PCB attached to the top of the capacitors with white silicone caulk. If this is not electrical grade, it will contain acetic acid (smells like vinegar), which can attack the copper and tin of the PCB and components, and it may also be conductive which effectively deteriorates the isolation of the DC-DC and other devices.

3) The DOA condition of your DC-DC may indicate a problem with the component design or manufacture, and it could be something that deteriorates with time. It would be good to do a detailed test of this and other parts that provide isolation, which should include an insulation resistance test at several voltages within spec, and observed over time for fluctuations, and also a capacitance reading. 

I can't think of anything else ATM. It's a challenge doing remote forensic analysis, but without an actual unit to play with, there's only so much I can do. 

[edit] I couldn't figure out what S3 might be, until I looked at the build notes and saw that it was a transistor (which should be Q). Anyway, I found it on the control board, and don't see why it should have been damaged, although if OldOut connects to OldIn, then it seems that it is used to drive G1 of the power board series IGBT. I don't really understand the logic of the circuit, with D9 PWM and D10 maxC somehow driving the gate of the buck circuit drive IGBT2, presumably with an adjustable PWM. I'd have to dig much deeper into the code and the overall circuit to figure it out, and it's just too hard to follow some of the connections.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Thank you for everything PStechPaul. It would, indeed, be nearly impossible to troubleshoot without an actual unit. For some reason, I thought you'd already built one 

The fact that my PFC stage WAS working [and is now toast] might be due to the output being latched high.

The IR1153 seems to have a floating gate drive. Despite replacing my other A3120 - thought (hoped) that would be the problem. Replacing the SMD IR1153 is not going to be fun. I need to order some of those also.

I did not mount my 12V supply with silicone - currently I left it in its original box and built my own mount for the charger - which still needs some finishing. My other components are siliconed with electrical grade product.

The output capacitance discrepancy is definitely an issue. And the DOA status of one DC/DC doesn't instill much faith in that product. How or why an output stage failure would affect the PFC stage, I do not know. Unless the short circuit (with the output IGBT latching "ON") overloaded the PFC stage. Yet the PFC IGBT doesn't seem to be defective. Guess I better investigate that as well.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

> [edit] I couldn't figure out what S3 might be, until I looked at the build notes and saw that it was a transistor (which should be Q). Anyway, I found it on the control board, and don't see why it should have been damaged, although if OldOut connects to OldIn, then it seems that it is used to drive G1 of the power board series IGBT. I don't really understand the logic of the circuit, with D9 PWM and D10 maxC somehow driving the gate of the buck circuit drive IGBT2, presumably with an adjustable PWM. I'd have to dig much deeper into the code and the overall circuit to figure it out, and it's just too hard to follow some of the connections.


Just saw your updated post.

This is exactly why I prefer driver IC's. Simply power it, feed it the necessary control signal, and millions of dollars of International Rectifier Engineering prowess does its thing 

I don't quite understand the logic of the control circuit. The PWM signal is fed through a linear comparator. By default, OLD OUT has a 5V pullup resistor. The transistor (S3) keeps it grounded until the PWM signal turns it on. Thus mirroring the drive signal. My only thought is that the Arduino pin D9 can't source the current required to drive the A3120.

Still not 100% clear on the interaction of maxC on D10....


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

I've been so paranoid about the inexplicable power surge that fried my output stage, I have not connected to mains voltage and have been trouble-shooting/testing with a current limited DC supply.

Duh....the IR1153 probably didn't see a high enough voltage and was thus in Brown-Out Protection phase.

Upon connection of a fused mains supply cord....everything powered up and PFC is working as expected.

One last issue I'd like to review with everyone --- when you first connect mains power, does your control board "tick" upon startup? Its almost like a faint "spark" sound as the screen fires up. With my current limiting supply powering the 12V laptop power adapter, this does not happen. When I plug in the laptop adapter directly to 120v, this does not happen. With mains input through the input bridge (creating DC) and THEN to the laptop adapter, the screen "ticks". Any comments? I would sure hate to fry things again due to some kind of oversight in my logic supply circuitry?


Tomorrow I will re-calibrate and connect my pack. And hopefully charge once again !!!!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I looked into the source code and found out (as I somewhat suspected) that the D10 pin of the Arduino uses PWM to set a maximum current level. That's why there is such a large TC (10k x 50uF) of 500 mSec. I will assume that this voltage starts at zero and then is raised to the current limit level once that has been set up in software, and at the inverting input of the LM211 this means just a little current from the sensor will set the output high which in turn drives OldOut low which should turn off the IGBT. 

I don't understand the reasoning for this design, as it would seem easier to simply read the current level with an ADC and adjust or shut down the PWM directly in software. Without a theory of operation it is difficult to second-guess the designer's intentions and rationale for various elements of a design. But it does not seem right to rely on a high signal from the LM211, or from the shutdown signal D6, to cause the drive to be turned off. If the LM211 fails shorted or the Arduino fails with outputs tristated, the IGBT could be turned on. It's unlikely, because of the pullup R32 to the 12V supply, but if the 5V supply is active when the 12V supply is not, then the IGBT would be turned on. It is hard to follow the power supplies, so I don't know if this is a likely scenario. 

I can't really see where "12V regulated" comes from, but I do see that it provides the +5V supply from a linear regulator. There are also other +5V and -5V supplies from the +/-15V supply to U2 for Vout, but I don't know what it measures - it might connect to R25 and A1 on the Arduino for Vsense, but the label just says "V". The A7520 appears to be an optocoupler of some sort but I can't see how it can measure the voltage of anything.

[edit] Now I see the two 1M resistors R10 and R11 to "Vout", but that's confusing because the output of the A7520 (which I find is also known as HCPL7520 and is an isolated current sensor) is also labeled "V out".

Anyway, I love a mystery, but I don't know here to go from here. I just have too hard a time following the schematics.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> Just saw your updated post.
> 
> This is exactly why I prefer driver IC's. Simply power it, feed it the necessary control signal, and millions of dollars of International Rectifier Engineering prowess does its thing
> 
> ...


Logic of the PWM circuit is to not pass the PWM signal if the instantaneous current is higher than maxC current set in the firmware (and fed into the circuit from D10 via an RC circuit). The filtered maxC reference point and the instantaneous current are fed into the separate inputs of the comparator. The output is then modulated with D9 PWM signal that is fed into the ENABLE pin of the comparator.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: WORKING v12/13 TOASTED UNEXPECTEDLY???*



kennybobby said:


> So after the PC817 was calibrated for 240, you were using it on 120--so might it now not recognize 120 and need recal before operating on 120?
> 
> Also did your gate driver smoke? If the power ground somehow shorted to the control ground thru a sneak circuit path, then you would have ~9 watts in that 10k 1/8w resistor--which is why it smoked. The +/-15V dc-dc converter is likely smoked since the Emitter reference line floats at the Output DC voltage (<450VDC), and the 12V supply is referenced to ground. Trying to get isolation between the high voltage pack and the driver is tricky to manage, especially when switching on the high side.
> 
> Another weird thing i noticed is the 200k bleed resistor, which for a ~360VDC PFC Voltage would mean it takes over an hour for the capacitor bank to bleed down after you shut it off.


The system is immune to shorting the power grounds and control ground. The power and control sections are isolated only for safety and noise isolation purposes.

RC is on the slow side, yes. Ideal design would include a bleeder relay with a small resistor. Our next version of the charger will have a 330 Ohm bleeder resistor which will be connected only when both battery and AC input are disconnected


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Hmmm... Tried to edit my post and it showed a blank. So this is just additional information. I found a similar DC-DC converter that is rated for high/low side IGBT drives and it has 5.2 kV isolation which meets agency approvals. Here is more info:
> 
> http://www.murata-ps.com/en/news/new-products/2468
> 
> Note, even with 5.2 kV hipot rating, this device is only qualified to 200 VRMS per standard safety approval. That's the problem I had with the TRACO devices as well, and I needed 480 VAC. So even 240 VAC will be more than officially approved. Maybe the well proven charge pump drive ICs are the way to go. The drives don't really "need" to be isolated, although they depend on the breakdown voltages of diodes, capacitors, resistors, and other components. Anything can fail. But it's important to design with various levels of "fail-safe" to limit damage from catastrophic failures.


The default part used in kits / units now is http://www.recom-power.com/pdf/Econoline/RKZ.pdf. The part has Short-Circuit Protection and rated for 1,500VAC 1 minute withstand. There are no 'continuous' ratings on any of the DC/DC converters I have seen (that 5.2kv part is actually an anomaly in specifying a separate continuous isolation rating).


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> Thanks for all the info PStechPaul...so you think the DC/DC could be the problem? If so, I'm very surprised nobody else is experiencing this. I don't really know how many chargers are out there and currently in-use versus in-build-state?
> 
> Regarding the gate drives - I have had good success with the TC4420 and IR2117 driver IC's. Very simple to implement and 600V isolation. Granted, none of my previous projects approached the high power handling of this charger. That said, driver logic and control is fairly universal regardless of power handling. There are some newer technologies now, and even some ICs with high and low side drives combined (FAN7932).
> 
> ...


IR2117 won't work here. You need at least 1.5A drive capability. Anything less and the IGBTs will overheat from excessive switching losses.

D9 and Old out should be in phase. If they are not, something is wrong.

The reason you see +13.5V on G1 of IGBT2 (buck) is that D9 ramps to 97% duty and stays there (normal behavior as it tries to ramp current and can't because you have no load).


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> Logic of the PWM circuit is to not pass the PWM signal if the instantaneous current is higher than maxC current set in the firmware (and fed into the circuit from D10 via an RC circuit). The filtered maxC reference point and the instantaneous current are fed into the separate inputs of the comparator. The output is then modulated with D9 PWM signal that is fed into the ENABLE pin of the comparator.


OK, thanks for clarifying. Still not clear why the PWM signal couldn't be adjusted in software based on the maxC setting? Neither here nor there...I'll run with it for now!


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> IR2117 won't work here. You need at least 1.5A drive capability. Anything less and the IGBTs will overheat from excessive switching losses.
> 
> D9 and Old out should be in phase. If they are not, something is wrong.
> 
> The reason you see +13.5V on G1 of IGBT2 (buck) is that D9 ramps to 97% duty and stays there (normal behavior as it tries to ramp current and can't because you have no load).


Right, the IR2117 does have that limitation. Something like a FAN7371 can do 4A sink/source. But everything has its pros and cons.

I couldn't figure out why they were out-of-phase and just kept back-tracking the components until I found the cause. No idea why S3 would have failed?

G1 was locked at +13.5 when the charger was "OFF" due to the failed S3 and the 5V pullup (R44) on the gate drive. Its now working properly and is held at -15V when "OFF". And ramps up to +13.5 when "charging". I haven't connected it back in the car yet - will follow up tonight.

I think I'll swap out the DC/DC with those current limiting ones you now use. Redundancy to protect from collateral damage I hope!

Thanks for the input! Still no idea as to the root cause of the failure? Could it be the high capacitive loads PStechPaul discovered?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I looked into the source code and found out (as I somewhat suspected) that the D10 pin of the Arduino uses PWM to set a maximum current level. That's why there is such a large TC (10k x 50uF) of 500 mSec. I will assume that this voltage starts at zero and then is raised to the current limit level once that has been set up in software, and at the inverting input of the LM211 this means just a little current from the sensor will set the output high which in turn drives OldOut low which should turn off the IGBT.
> 
> I don't understand the reasoning for this design, as it would seem easier to simply read the current level with an ADC and adjust or shut down the PWM directly in software. Without a theory of operation it is difficult to second-guess the designer's intentions and rationale for various elements of a design. But it does not seem right to rely on a high signal from the LM211, or from the shutdown signal D6, to cause the drive to be turned off. If the LM211 fails shorted or the Arduino fails with outputs tristated, the IGBT could be turned on. It's unlikely, because of the pullup R32 to the 12V supply, but if the 5V supply is active when the 12V supply is not, then the IGBT would be turned on. It is hard to follow the power supplies, so I don't know if this is a likely scenario.


The reason for this design is the need to respond in microseconds to overcurrent events. No way to do this in software on a 16MHz ATMega328P that takes 100 microseconds to perform an ADC conversion (I know there is a way to speed that up but that comes at the expense of the precision which we cannot afford to do).


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I can understand the rationale for this, where an overcurrent condition (especially a short circuit) would need to shut down within microseconds, and the 1k/10nF would have a 10 uSec TC. BUT, this only removes the drive to the 150 uH inductor, which has a certain amount of stored energy that will still be dumped into the load, but the 2000 uF of capacitors on the output into a nominal 300V 30A (10 ohm) load has a TC of 20 mSec, which can transfer a lot of energy even after the IGBT has been turned off. This current will be dumped through the 600V 50A diode, and could easily exceed its peak I^2t current rating, unless there is a fast-acting fuse to the battery pack (and I don't see one).

The A0 input of the Arduino should see this excessive current, which will continue for long enough after the PWM drive has been shut down via the high-speed circuitry, so that it can implement a latch that requires a time delay or manual restart to resume charging once the fault has been cleared, so hopefully that has been implemented in software. 

I'm not familiar with the Arduino, but most PICs have a built-in comparator that can implement a high-speed shutdown, and the ADCs can easily sample at 10,000 samples per second, or 100 uSec, which should be fast enough to disable the PWM drive within a couple of PWM periods at 20 kHz. As you said, that is also attainable with the Arduino, and I think it is more than sufficient.

Please don't interpret my observations as criticism, except with the most constructive intent. I think it always helps a designer to have someone second-guess their designs, and even attempt to find fault, especially if it can be done before a product is released. I am trying to play "devil's advocate" in a way, only because there appear to be some problems with the design or the implementation that have resulted in catastrophic failures, and these seem to have arisen recently, which may coincide with a newer version of the boards and/or firmware which I think occurred late last year. 

It would be really helpful to everyone, I think, if you could provide a fairly detailed theory of operation, explaining the purpose of each element of the design. That should not be too difficult, probably less than a day's work, and then perhaps I can more intelligently critique any weaknesses or applaud any clever and effective design elements.

Every designer has a unique perspective based on previous experience, education, familiarity with circuit elements, interpretation of data sheets, and ultimate intentions of a design. There are many constraints, such as cost, simplicity, reliability, obsolescence, safety, environment, and versatility. The fact that there are perhaps 100+ of these units still working reliably speaks for much excellence in the basic design, but I think there may have been some unfortunate changes recently, and I think there are ways to improve the concept, and/or modify the present design to address the issues that seem to have emerged recently. I'm here to help.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> Right, the IR2117 does have that limitation. Something like a FAN7371 can do 4A sink/source. But everything has its pros and cons.
> 
> I couldn't figure out why they were out-of-phase and just kept back-tracking the components until I found the cause. No idea why S3 would have failed?
> 
> ...


Somehow high voltage might have found a way to S3. 

I haven't seen that failure mode for S3 before. I did see S3 fail before but when 12V supply was applied in reverse polarity to the control board - which is not the case here. 

This would definitely imply failure of isolation (either in DC / DC and / or driver chip) AND failure of IGBT with Gate getting fused to Collector (a frequent failure mode for IGBTs). 

It is hard to say why IGBT failed in the first place. Maybe it was a surge of gate voltage beyond rated 20V (relative to emitter), maybe something else. If it was overvoltage, if could have been caused by DC/DC surge (but that would have to be pretty extreme to go from 12V rated to 20V+). The fact that it happened at startup may point to additional gate voltage boost from Miller capacitance of the IGBT. It could also point to startup overshoot of the 12V supply...

At any rate, looks like we need to add some 18V zeners in a few places (2 per gate on IGBTs, and 2 per DC-DC)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Please don't interpret my observations as criticism, except with the most constructive intent. I think it always helps a designer to have someone second-guess their designs, and even attempt to find fault, especially if it can be done before a product is released. I am trying to play "devil's advocate" in a way, only because there appear to be some problems with the design or the implementation that have resulted in catastrophic failures, and these seem to have arisen recently, which may coincide with a newer version of the boards and/or firmware which I think occurred late last year.
> 
> It would be really helpful to everyone, I think, if you could provide a fairly detailed theory of operation, explaining the purpose of each element of the design. That should not be too difficult, probably less than a day's work, and then perhaps I can more intelligently critique any weaknesses or applaud any clever and effective design elements.
> 
> Every designer has a unique perspective based on previous experience, education, familiarity with circuit elements, interpretation of data sheets, and ultimate intentions of a design. There are many constraints, such as cost, simplicity, reliability, obsolescence, safety, environment, and versatility. The fact that there are perhaps 100+ of these units still working reliably speaks for much excellence in the basic design, but I think there may have been some unfortunate changes recently, and I think there are ways to improve the concept, and/or modify the present design to address the issues that seem to have emerged recently. I'm here to help.


Thanks Paul - I appreciate it. These are good ideas and I am hoping to find time for explaining the theory of operation - perhaps during my vacation next week ;-)

There were no significant changes to design for a while now. The only variable thing is DC/DC part number that was shifting a couple of times in the last half a year or so... There was also a move to PC817-based input voltage sensing but if anything, it reduced the number of potential failure points as now we are using 2 DC/DC modules instead of 3 we used before. 

Re Arduino managing OC protection, 100uS is not fast enough. 150uH inductor carrying 70A DC bias and suddenly getting output shorted with 400VDC across it can ramp to over 1,000A in 100uS (as it would be already 40-50% saturated at 70A DC bias and will be driven into complete saturation shortly thereafter). The PFC caps would happily support that level of current for a while (1,000A for 100uS is just 0.1 Coulomb, and those caps carry 4 Coulombs at 400VDC). 145A IGBT will most likely not survive this.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

My point is that the current monitor is after the inductor and diode and capacitors, so an overcurrent condition after these elements will not be seen by the IGBT for quite some time. Also, during start-up, there is no way to measure the current through the IGBT as it is charging the capacitors through the inductor. If the buck converter runs in continuous mode, without cycle-by-cycle peak current sensing through the inductor, it can easily saturate, in which case the capacitors will effectively be a short-circuit on the output of the IGBT, while the output current sensor will report very little current because the battery voltage will be higher than the capacitor voltage.

In fact, from what I can see, if the "optional" output diode is not installed (or if it fails), there will be a huge surge current when the battery pack is connected, until it charges up the 2000 uF of capacitors. The current sensor will register a negative current which will drive the + input of the comparator (and the A0 input of the Arduino) below the power supply rail, which it might not like, and it will certainly not register an overcurrent condition. Of course there is no mechanism to reduce this current, but it could cause a latch-up condition and subsequent failure of the logic circuitry and processor.

Typically, there should be some means of measuring the current through the IGBT itself, which is often accomplished with a small current sense resistor and level shifting circuitry. The A7520 is ideally suited to that purpose, and it is really misapplied as a voltage sensor. A very simple means of fast overcurrent protection is by means of a resistor that will give 700 mV at, say, 200 amps, or 0.0035 ohms, and an RC filter to the gate of a small SCR across the gate-emitter terminals. This will latch on and keep the IGBT turned off until the PWM signal or other protection is activated, and will then self-reset. 

Unless there are other means of limiting the current through the IGBT during start-up, I think this is a very likely mechanism for the failures noted, especially when they occur upon first application of input power.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Firstly, my charger is working again on 120V mains...at about 1450W...which is exactly what its supposed to do.

However, it is not entering CV stage. Is this because my cutoff is set at 349 instead of 350? In the code, the CV stage parameter is 35. If I change it to 34, it will be too low. Is my easiest option to change the cutoff back to 350? My pack is bottom balanced, 86s CALB CA100 cells. I just don't want to over-charge since I'm not running a BMS right now.


PStechPaul, I did some experimenting tonight after reading you last post - specifically regarding the inrush current on startup.

I had previously mentioned the strange "tick" or "spark" sound when powering up with the laptop supply connected to rectified mains. IT IS NOT the display. It is the PFC inductor. This would suggest a large, sudden inrush of current on the initial application of mains power.

This only occurs when the caps are empty.

I removed mains power. Waited about 20 seconds. And re-applied mains. No "tick". The caps were nearly full. I would conclude your suspicions are correct.
*Valery, is this normal behaviour? Or do I have another glitch?*

The documentation on the IR1153 PFC chip does have soft start capability.


> ...The soft start time is essentially controlled by voltage error amplifier compensation components selected...


I'm not clear as to how this is calculated?



> ...As VCOMP voltage rises gradually, the IC allows a higher and higher RMS current into the PFC converter. This controlled increase of the input current amplitude contributes to reducing system component stress during start-up.


Based on my DOA DC/DC converter from Digikey....I'm heavily leaning towards this as the root cause of the failure. Possibly combined with sudden stress from an over accelerated PFC boost stage. Especially considering it was the OUTPUT stage that failed immediately after mains power was applied. The PFC stage seems to have been fine....not sure if I even needed to replace the driver since I was (stupidly) testing it incorrectly. I will have to order the current limiting DC/DC you spec'd.

Thanks for the help and (hopefully) continued improvement and reliability.

Can you advise the best way to implement the 18V Zeners on my v12/13 boards? I'd rather not have to scrape and expose existing traces?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> My point is that the current monitor is after the inductor and diode and capacitors, so an overcurrent condition after these elements will not be seen by the IGBT for quite some time. Also, during start-up, there is no way to measure the current through the IGBT as it is charging the capacitors through the inductor. If the buck converter runs in continuous mode, without cycle-by-cycle peak current sensing through the inductor, it can easily saturate, in which case the capacitors will effectively be a short-circuit on the output of the IGBT, while the output current sensor will report very little current because the battery voltage will be higher than the capacitor voltage.


not quite. the charger starts up with output buck IGBT turned off. The first chance for the IGBT to turn on is ~10-15 seconds after the first 2 timeouts. 

On overcurrent event, same calculation applies as I mentioned before. A typical inductance at rated load is 80uH. Short circuit on the output means 400VDC gets applied across the already loaded inductor. This results in the current ramp rate of >5A / uS. The inductor will further saturate as the current ramps so the ramp rate will quickly and exponentially increase. Hence we have about 10uS to catch the event before the current exceeds 200A. Hence the ADC is too slow. 




PStechPaul said:


> The current sensor will register a negative current which will drive the + input of the comparator (and the A0 input of the Arduino) below the power supply rail, which it might not like, and it will certainly not register an overcurrent condition. Of course there is no mechanism to reduce this current, but it could cause a latch-up condition and subsequent failure of the logic circuitry and processor.


no it couldn't. Current sensor used in the charger is a single supply sensor and the output cannot go below the ground rail. 




PStechPaul said:


> The A7520 is ideally suited to that purpose, and it is really misapplied as a voltage sensor.


'misapplied' is a strong word, Paul. Let's not use such judgment unless really necessary. A7520 is nothing else but an isolated VOLTAGE AMPLIFIER. It is NORMALLY applied in the current sensing circuits to amplify VOLTAGE from the current sensing resistor. I'm not sure what problem you see in using a voltage amplifier for amplifying voltage...




PStechPaul said:


> A very simple means of fast overcurrent protection is by means of a resistor that will give 700 mV at, say, 200 amps, or 0.0035 ohms, and an RC filter to the gate of a small SCR across the gate-emitter terminals. This will latch on and keep the IGBT turned off until the PWM signal or other protection is activated, and will then self-reset.


700mV at 200A is 140 Watts dissipation, Paul... Resistive current sensing is rarely used at high currents for that exact reason. One could add a separate current sensor in series with inductor but per my calculation above, this wouldn't make much difference (due to a low inductance of the inductor). 




PStechPaul said:


> Unless there are other means of limiting the current through the IGBT during start-up, I think this is a very likely mechanism for the failures noted, especially when they occur upon first application of input power.


No it is not. Startup does not CURRENT-stress the output (buck) IGBT at all. As I mentioned above, the charger starts with output IGBT turned off. The output caps are blocked by the reverse diode in the output IGBT. Therefore, no current can flow from PFC caps to output caps.

An output (buck) IGBT can be VOLTAGE-stressed on startup if the stars align in just the wrong way:
1. Rate of rise of the PFC rail is high enough to contribute to a few volts of gate voltage rise via Miller capacitance
2. Higher-than-normal output of the DC/DC converter creates an overvoltage on Gate. 
This, while unlikely, could happen. Hence the addition of the zeners that I think will help. 


Overall, I know that throwing a lot of ideas can be fun but I'd like to filter that flow a bit to focus on the stuff that can actually plausibly happen. Otherwise we can get a lot of people thrashing around fixing fantom problems.

I think that based on the discussion to date, the most likely cause is failure of isolation of DC/DC combined with the failure of output IGBT - likely due to overvoltage on the Gate vs Emitter (based on the fact it happens on startup).

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> I had previously mentioned the strange "tick" or "spark" sound when powering up with the laptop supply connected to rectified mains. IT IS NOT the display. It is the PFC inductor. This would suggest a large, sudden inrush of current on the initial application of mains power.
> 
> This only occurs when the caps are empty.
> 
> I removed mains power. Waited about 20 seconds. And re-applied mains. No "tick". The caps were nearly full. I would conclude your suspicions are correct.


Not quite. Paul was talking about overcurrent of the OUTPUT IGBT, not PFC IGBT. The inrush current DOES OCCUR when input AC is charging empty PFC caps. This current passes through the PFC diode (which is a part of the PFC IGBT module). If the specified inrush resistors are used, this current is limited to ~100-200A for 1-2 milliseconds which is not a problem for that diode. 

The issue MAY appear when:
1. Input AC power removed right after the charger was running with high input current of 20A+
2. Caps are then drained by whatever means in 30 seconds or less
3. Input AC power reapplied within 30 seconds or less of the AC power removal

In this case, the inrush resistors would be still hot and would not limit the inrush current. This COULD result in PFC diode damage. But that would manifest itself as a PFC IGBT module failure. Which is not what you have.




Old.DSMer said:


> Can you advise the best way to implement the 18V Zeners on my v12/13 boards? I'd rather not have to scrape and expose existing traces?


The boards already have pads for those parts (to install between G and E pins of IGBTs). You would take 2 zeners per IGBT, connect them cathode-to-cathode, and solder into the power board or driver board between G and E pins (just follow the traces from those pins to find pad locations).

thanks,
Valery


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> Not quite. Paul was talking about overcurrent of the OUTPUT IGBT, not PFC IGBT. The inrush current DOES OCCUR when input AC is charging empty PFC caps. This current passes through the PFC diode (which is a part of the PFC IGBT module). If the specified inrush resistors are used, this current is limited to ~100-200A for 1-2 milliseconds which is not a problem for that diode.


I am running the inrush limiters. I have never plugged and unplugged consecutively. When the failure occurred, it had been unplugged for several days - so no chance of anything in the caps (I'm using an output diode also).

If the PFC chip doesn't soft-start , wouldn't the output IGBT also see that same instantaneous voltage spike? Regardless - I think most evidence is now pointing to the DC/DC failure/short.



valerun said:


> The issue MAY appear when:
> 1. Input AC power removed right after the charger was running with high input current of 20A+
> 2. Caps are then drained by whatever means in 30 seconds or less
> 3. Input AC power reapplied within 30 seconds or less of the AC power removal
> ...


I understand and agree with this scenario.




valerun said:


> The boards already have pads for those parts (to install between G and E pins of IGBTs). You would take 2 zeners per IGBT, connect them cathode-to-cathode, and solder into the power board or driver board between G and E pins (just follow the traces from those pins to find pad locations).


Great design feature, I'll dig up some parts and do the upgrade 

Was my CV statement correct? Should I just change the cutoff back to 350?


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## green_EV 2000 (May 2, 2014)

valerun said:


> Hi All,
> 
> *[Update 07/01/13]*: We have improved the design over the last few months, with beefier PCBs, better drive circuits etc. As a result, this is now a 12kW / 70A charger for under $1,000! Also, we now have an option for 100A output! Finally, a custom enclosure is now an option - professionally machined and powder-coated in awesome black matte finish to show off your charger. As always, you can get more info on the latest specs / build videos / etc at http://www.emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics. Now there are over 100 of these out there!
> 
> ...


mainly than if CAN Communications with battery management system（ BMS), Meet this ?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I had a reply ready to post but it went to the bit bucket. Basically I apologized for my overzealous criticism and overlooking the power issue of the resistive current sensor. 

Also I recommended a $0.30 TVS diode instead of two $0.04 18V zeners. The TVS diode will clamp at about 23V maximum at 15 amp surge current, whereas the zeners have about 20 ohms dynamic impedance and even a 1 amp surge will allow 20V plus the 18V zener potential. 

Here is the datasheet for the TVS diodes. I recommend PK4E16CA:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/240/Littelfuse_TVS-Diode_P4KE-63873.pdf

Here is the datasheet for a common zener, 1N4746A:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/427/1n4728a-104110.pdf


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

I can only find stock on the P4KE15CA. Should be OK and its clamp voltage is just slightly lower than P4KE16CA at 21.2V vs 22.5V.

It does not appear the MGJ2 is available in a +/-15V version.

I'm going with the MEJ2 instead. Recommended input capacitance of 10 microfarads - and will support up to 47 with "delayed startup time". Typical startup is about 15ms into 10 --- not sure what it will be with 47?

I could not find stock of the RKZ. Digikey shipping is a fraction of the cost of Mouser (at lease for us Canucks) so I'm buying what they have available.

Any thoughts on input current protection for the DC/DC's?

PFC soft start???


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The MEJ2 seems like a good choice, and it will operate into load capacitance of 10-47 uF. It's good to have large capacitance for the initial charging of the gate capacitance. Once it is charged there is almost no current and plenty of time for the DC-DC to recharge for the next pulse. There will also be some reverse current when the gate is turned off and its capacitance is discharged and reverse-charged.

I would expect a linear relationship of capacitance to startup time, so 15 mSec at 10 uF would be about 70 mSec at 47 uF. Also remember that many electrolytics are specified with as much as +80% tolerance, so you could actually have 85 uF and 120 mSec startup. It is very important to delay operation of the PWM until the available gate voltage exceeds the minimum for solid turn-on. Otherwise it may apply insufficient voltage and enter the much feared linear region where you may have simultaneous 150 VDC and 100 amps. Ka-Pow(er) ! 

Please note that there is a minimum load requirement of 10% for specified output voltage. With less than 5% the output may _*typically*_ rise to *twice *rated voltage, and the IGBT may not like 30V applied to its gate. With the TVS diodes, this will not happen, but it will result in the excess energy being dissipated in them. The 10k gate resistors specified in the EMW design is only a 0.03 watt load. I recommend using 1k resistors for 0.3 watts.

My recommended MGJ2 is preferred because the IGBTs do not need the full -15 V gate to turn off quickly and reliably. The +15/-5 is all that is needed, and it may actually improve the ON switching characteristics because there will be less gate charge to absorb. A change of 20V compared to 30V is less than half the energy.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> Also remember that many electrolytics are specified with as much as +80% tolerance, so you could actually have 85 uF and 120 mSec startup. It is very important to delay operation of the PWM until the available gate voltage exceeds the minimum for solid turn-on. Otherwise it may apply insufficient voltage and enter the much feared linear region where you may have simultaneous 150 VDC and 100 amps. Ka-Pow(er) !


Thus my interest in the operation of the soft start functionality of the IR1153? I probably won't proceed until I have a better understanding of this. Need to do more research.....



PStechPaul said:


> Please note that there is a minimum load requirement of 10% for specified output voltage. With less than 5% the output may _*typically*_ rise to *twice *rated voltage, and the IGBT may not like 30V applied to its gate. With the TVS diodes, this will not happen, but it will result in the excess energy being dissipated in them. The 10k gate resistors specified in the EMW design is only a 0.03 watt load. I recommend using 1k resistors for 0.3 watts.


I think this is a modification worth trying. I have to check my parts bin for some 1K - otherwise I'll have to order some with my DC/DC and TVS's.



PStechPaul said:


> My recommended MGJ2 is preferred because the IGBTs do not need the full -15 V gate to turn off quickly and reliably. The +15/-5 is all that is needed, and it may actually improve the ON switching characteristics because there will be less gate charge to absorb. A change of 20V compared to 30V is less than half the energy.


Interesting proposal - it would definitely reduce switching losses. Not sure there are that many switching losses to begin with. Valery, what do you think?

I ran the charger again tonight, this time on 240V. It seemed to work nicely except I still have that "snapping sound" above 12A. Video here from when I had them axially aligned. I dis-assembled my toroid mounting and have them perpendicular side-by-side. So there should have been no cross-talk or interference. Thoughts?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

The clicking noise sounds like a relay...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I had a reply ready to post but it went to the bit bucket. Basically I apologized for my overzealous criticism and overlooking the power issue of the resistive current sensor.
> 
> Also I recommended a $0.30 TVS diode instead of two $0.04 18V zeners. The TVS diode will clamp at about 23V maximum at 15 amp surge current, whereas the zeners have about 20 ohms dynamic impedance and even a 1 amp surge will allow 20V plus the 18V zener potential.
> 
> ...


no problem. it's all good fun. as long as we don't confuse everyone else too much ;-)

TVS with these specs won't work, unfortunately. You need to clamp at below 20V as that is a breakdown voltage for IGBT Gate-Emitter junction. Hence dual 18V zeners. That seems to be the standard approach...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I would suggest putting 15V zeners directly on the outputs of the DC-DC converter, as they will assure a regulated 15VDC rather than up to 30VDC under minimal load conditions. Actually, the 10k gate resistor is not applied to the DC-DC until the gate driver turns ON. At that point, the 47 uF capacitors on the 15V supplies will be at maximum no-load voltage and they will be discharged at several amperes into the much smaller gate capacitance. Perhaps the original DC-DC converters were regulated, but the replacements being discussed are not. Perhaps it would be advisable to measure these voltages.

The TVS diodes are guaranteed to clamp even high current pulses to the maximum specified voltage, whereas zeners are rated at a nominal current based on a percentage of continuous wattage. The dynamic impedance is revealed at higher current short duration pulses, so an 18V 1 watt zener with 20 ohms impedance will be 18 + 0.05*20 or 19 volts at just under its rated continuous power at 50 mA, but for a 1 ampere surge it will be 18 + 1*20 or 38 volts. I'll put my money on the TVS diode, and if you are really concerned about 23V on a 20V maximum gate, you can choose one rated at about 13V which will clamp at less than 20V. It will also absorb the discharge of the DC-DC converter output capacitors through the gate driver when it is energized, which is probably capable of 2 amps or more.

We can approach this as "fun", and anyone who does not understand my concerns is free to ignore them or discredit them, but I would much rather have someone set up some tests and actually take measurements, probably using a fairly high speed storage scope, to verify or disprove my assertions. If I had one of these boards (even without the more expensive power components), I would be able to perform these tests, but I am not willing to purchase one, as I have no immediate use for it. I'm willing to invest a few hours of my time to analyze this design, as a donation to the DIY EV community, and hopefully I may discover that the design is flawless. But if I find problems, they probably may be easily and cheaply corrected, and the result will be a better product and better reliability and satisfaction for the customers who are understandably frustrated and confused by these recent problems.

OK, I think I'm done for now, unless I am given the opportunity for further testing on actual hardware. I am here to help.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

kennybobby said:


> The clicking noise sounds like a relay...


Perhaps in the video. But in reality it is definitely not the click of a relay. More like the static spark you get after dragging your feet across the carpet and then zapping your unsuspecting sibling in the ear.

I'm surprised (and concerned about my build) that nobody else has noticed this! ? ?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Also I recommended a $0.30 TVS diode instead of two $0.04 18V zeners. The TVS diode will clamp at about 23V maximum at 15 amp surge current, whereas the zeners have about 20 ohms dynamic impedance and even a 1 amp surge will allow 20V plus the 18V zener potential.


Furthermore, dynamic impedance has no relevance to this discussion at all. It is a small-signal characteristic of the zener, typically specified at a very low currents through the device (e.g., 1mA). At large currents, impedance is much much smaller. Typical datasheet at http://www.mccsemi.com/up_pdf/1n5338b-1n5369b(Do-15).pdf. Enjoy vertical I-V lines on Fig 8 on page 5...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Please note that there is a minimum load requirement of 10% for specified output voltage. With less than 5% the output may _*typically*_ rise to *twice *rated voltage, and the IGBT may not like 30V applied to its gate.


not true. 

Datasheet for the RKZ series used now: http://www.recom-power.com/pdf/Econoline/RKZ.pdf. Page 2, RKZ-xx15D figure, 1215 line - typical overshoot spec'ed at 25% for ZERO load. 

Besides, in reality, if you look at schematics, these converters are always loaded with at least a 3120 driver IC. Per datasheet http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-0161EN, page 10, typical supply current is 2.5mA which provides 5% load. Negative rail will be further loaded with at least 3% from a 10k resistor. 

Furthermore, on the PFC side, positive rail gets loaded with IR1153 PFC chip - datasheet http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/ir1153.pdf, page 3 - another 7% typical. 

Finally, 7520 isolated amp loads positive rail some more - datasheet http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-0956EN, page 7 - typical input supply current of 11.6mA, which is another 23% of rated DC/DC load. 

So if you actually count, you will see that the positive rail gets loaded immediately with 35% of the rated load, and negative rail - with 8%. 




PStechPaul said:


> The 10k gate resistors specified in the EMW design is only a 0.03 watt load. I recommend using 1k resistors for 0.3 watts.


10k gate shunt resistor is a standard value used in the vast majority of reference circuits you will find in many many application notes. 1k won't hurt but it will result in spending 25% of your rated DC/DC converter output on just this one resistor.




PStechPaul said:


> My recommended MGJ2 is preferred because the IGBTs do not need the full -15 V gate to turn off quickly and reliably. The +15/-5 is all that is needed, and it may actually improve the ON switching characteristics because there will be less gate charge to absorb. A change of 20V compared to 30V is less than half the energy.


Partially true. Actually, majority of reference circuits for high-power IGBTs list +15/-8V supply. These tend to be expensive hence the selection of a symmetrical supply (which can also be found in a few reference circuits). 

The switching characteristics will not be affected at all. The only effect will be slightly shorter delay in switching ON. That will not result in any change in switching losses. 

Frankly responding with all the corrections starts to feel more and more like a waste of my time so I will stop here. Feel free to experiment but keep in mind that 100s of datasheets and application notes have been studied to a lot of detail and over 30 IGBTs and other assorted components have been blown up through various experiments over the course of the last 3 years (most of them in the early months, of course). The design can of course be improved - just don't let yourself fall into the illusion that it will be easy. Most people get quite discouraged after blowing up a few $50-100 components ;-))

Yours, 
V


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

OK, there is something seriously wrong with the output. Buzzing noise at higher power level. Any suggestions? Anyone?

Charger at 240V, 23A input - 5.5 kW Video

And when the power level is lowered, all is good:
Charger at 240V, 15A input - 3.6 kW Video

I have verified this sound is coming from the output coil. Not the board.

I previously had a friend fully test/confirm these coils and then VPI them to increase their reliability/durability. Is this a switching problem since its somewhat erratic? If you listen to my previous video, there is no constant frequency. In the above video at 5.5 kW, it seems pretty steady.

*EDIT* This is with the build as per all the spec sheets and original components. I have not altered anything in the design thus far - with the exception of having the coils VPI'ed


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> I ran the charger again tonight, this time on 240V. It seemed to work nicely except I still have that "snapping sound" above 12A.


This is one of the current limiting mechanisms kicking in. Obviously unwanted in this normal operation. I would try this:

1. For PFC side
Increase the size of the cap in the RC circuit between IsS and IsG on the driver board. max of 0.1uF

2. For the output (buck) side
* Increase the size of the cap in the RC circuit sitting on the C input, feeding the comparator. max of 0.1uF
* In firmware increase the absMaxCirrentRatio to 1.6 or 1.8

Let us know how it goes. Also, please let us know if the clicking becomes more or less prevalent when you further increase the output power.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I really can't hear anything more than very faint clicks, even with earbuds plugged in and volume maxxed. I do have some hearing loss, especially at high frequencies 5 kHz and higher, so that could be my problem. A clicking noise may indicate magnetostriction of the ferrite or iron core, or it could be movement of the windings due to the Lorentz force. Both may be indication of very high current approaching and reaching saturation:

http://jalpanshah.blogspot.com/2013/05/acoustical-noise-of-power-transformer.html

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=716105

One little known phenomenon of toroidal cores is that a winding that continues around more than 360 degrees in the same circumferential direction essentially forms another coil wrapped around the center rather than around the torus. I think its effects are minimal, but they can be avoided by winding each layer less than 360 degrees and then reversing direction.

Of course, this is all "in fun", and since my suggestions are being challenged and dismissed, I think it's time to "butt out" of Valery's thread. It is his product, after all, and he says he has tested all of the elements where I have found possible concerns. You may PM me if you would like to have me look into what's going on, or start a new thread, but I see that I'm getting on Valery's nerves and I don't want to do that.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> This is one of the current limiting mechanisms kicking in. Obviously unwanted in this normal operation. I would try this:
> 
> 1. For PFC side
> Increase the size of the cap in the RC circuit between IsS and IsG on the driver board. max of 0.1uF


Original build specs contain 0.1uF at C34 - which is what I have (unless I misunderstand you?)



valerun said:


> 2. For the output (buck) side
> * Increase the size of the cap in the RC circuit sitting on the C input, feeding the comparator. max of 0.1uF


Original build specs contain 0.1uF at C2 - which is also what I have.



valerun said:


> * In firmware increase the absMaxCirrentRatio to 1.6 or 1.8
> 
> Let us know how it goes. Also, please let us know if the clicking becomes more or less prevalent when you further increase the output power.


The code I have uses the parameter absMaxCRatio and was 1.6. I increased it to 1.8. No improvement. Runs pretty good around 15A. Starts randomly snapping around 17A. All-out infrequent buzz at 23A. I did not let it run more than a second or two at 23A. I have a long (40') 10-3 extension cord on my 240V circuit and a 30A breaker, so thats why I chose 23A. I could probably go up to 25A but I don't see any reason to do that right now.

Is there another parameter called absMaxCurrentRatio somewhere? I couldn't find it if there is?

Also, I don't have the test sheets from the coils. But I believe they are close to your specified 150uH. The rewind shop was not impressed with the multi-layer random twisted pairs...but they said the coils tested fine. They WERE impressed with the high quality cores. I'm not convinced this is a transformer issue.


----------



## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I really can't hear anything more than very faint clicks, even with earbuds plugged in and volume maxxed. I do have some hearing loss, especially at high frequencies 5 kHz and higher, so that could be my problem. A clicking noise may indicate magnetostriction of the ferrite or iron core, or it could be movement of the windings due to the Lorentz force. Both may be indication of very high current approaching and reaching saturation:
> 
> http://jalpanshah.blogspot.com/2013/05/acoustical-noise-of-power-transformer.html
> 
> ...


Trouble-shooting power electronics can be frustrating...I'm sure we all agree with that. So not as much "fun" for me. I'll be having fun when I can reliably charge at 30-40A. Till then, I'll keep trying to optimize my build.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. Always good to have different perspectives and things to check. As per my previous posts, the coils did test fully within specs and aside from the winding techniques, should work just fine.

Your above links are an extension of RWAudio's initial suggestions and our concerns of cross-talk between the transformers when I had them axially mounted. It would appear that was not affecting this problem.

Sorry for the poor video quality - cell phones don't really pick up the best audio. Especially at high frequency. I need my speakers full blast to hear the snapping sounds. I don't want to use the word "sparking" sounds because I think there would be bad luck with that  However, it is a much higher frequency than "clicking".


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

The control board cap I am talking about is C49. It is normally spec'ed at 10nF.

To generate some more ideas, I need photos of your build. I would be looking at layout of components, where the sensor wires are positioned, how your current wire connecting 2 copper planes on the power board looks, etc.

Do you have a scope?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> ...videos...


on your videos, C34 and C36 are missing from the driver board...

another thought - your charger has been working for a while, correct? When it was working, it did not have any noise issues, correct? What changed between then and now? This is what I would focus my attention on. 

PS. You have found the right variable in firmware - that's what I meant.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Of course, this is all "in fun", and since my suggestions are being challenged and dismissed, I think it's time to "butt out" of Valery's thread. It is his product, after all, and he says he has tested all of the elements where I have found possible concerns. You may PM me if you would like to have me look into what's going on, or start a new thread, but I see that I'm getting on Valery's nerves and I don't want to do that.


Paul - we need more people like you contributing. BUT it would go much smoother if:

1. People ask & listen before telling. Why is X designed the way it is? How does Y work? Perhaps someone has thought through the various alternatives and that's why it is designed the way it is...

2. Suggestions are vetted against datasheets, etc. before claiming things like 2x the rated voltage at zero load, etc. Especially if such suggestions are delivered with conviction and 'this is the right way to do things' positioning. Similar to point #1, I'm totally fine with even absolutely off-the-cuff ideas IF they are delivered appropriately - e.g., "haven't thought about this much but have you considered X" kind of approach.

Hope this makes sense.

Otherwise I am having to spend time to go through all those datasheets to respond to incorrect statements. Because they are delivered with such conviction, people will be taking them at face value, and at best spending their time and resources on spurious tweaks instead of attacking root cause. Hence I feel I have to respond to each such occasion.

V


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

As points of clarification, please note that:

(1) My figure of 2x nominal voltage was for the DC-DC converter that Old.DSMer was planning to use:
http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/ncl/kdc_mej2.pdf

(2) The zener that you chose is a 5W version which does have lower dynamic resistance (about 2 ohms):
http://www.mccsemi.com/up_pdf/1n5338b-1n5369b(Do-15).pdf
compared with the more common 1 watt 1N4746A which has 20 ohms:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/427/1n4728a-104110.pdf

As for the "straight" V/I curves, please note that the 18V zener shows about a 1 volt increase at 100 mA, which indicates about 10 ohms dynamic resistance. Even with the specified 2 ohm typical dynamic resistance, at 1 amp surge it would just about reach the 20 V maximum gate voltage, and at 2.5 amps (maximum of A3120) it could be as high as 23 volts. If the surge comes from the Miller capacitance, it could be higher.

I did goof in my suggestion about a sense resistor. But my other concerns are based in the datasheets, and were correct. I had not factored in the quiescent current of the ICs on the 15V supply, so that would reduce the maximum voltage. But I have used 15V zeners directly across such DC-DC converters with great success and it costs very little money or power to obtain an accurate and consistent power supply voltage.

If you object to this clarification, then I really will just "go away". But I wanted to set the record straight from my POV.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> on your videos, C34 and C36 are missing from the driver board...
> 
> another thought - your charger has been working for a while, correct? When it was working, it did not have any noise issues, correct? What changed between then and now? This is what I would focus my attention on.
> 
> PS. You have found the right variable in firmware - that's what I meant.


OMG  C34 and C36 were missing. How in the world did you pick that out of a shaky cell phone video? Amazing!

I just dug up some caps from my parts bin and put those in. Sure enough, I can pull 25A on 240V input and no issues now. I'll have to upgrade my breaker panel to draw any more....but I'm satisfied for now. Thank you guys so much for you help in trouble-shooting. Valery - I'm forever grateful and incredibly impressed you could pick that out!!! I've gone over those boards countless times and completely kept overlooking that!!!!

I previously did one full charge from my bottom-balanced state. And only 3 top-ups before the failure. I'm still going to get the current limiting DC/DCs as well as dual zeners (might also try the 13V TVS's....).


*My CV stage does not work. It completes the CC phase. Shows the parameters to start the CV stage, but then just switches to Step Completed and then goes to Charge Completed...... Any suggestions on that?*

I do have an HP scope. And a lower quality USB scope which is nice for recording.

My copper connecting wire is about 2" as per your assembly videos and original instructions from October 13,2013. I see the March 3,2014 still call up the 2" wire.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> But I have used 15V zeners directly across such DC-DC converters with great success and it costs very little money or power to obtain an accurate and consistent power supply voltage.


yes, zeners on DC/DC outputs will provide [a bit of] additional safety. If I were to fit them in, I would use same 18V ones that would be used for the gates. That way you are not loading the converter unnecessarily.

Anyway, in the spirit of full disclosure, here is my design improvement list for this charger. None of them are major but each one would make the system work better. Take a look & comment in the doc if you have your wish lists.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> OMG  C34 and C36 were missing. How in the world did you pick that out of a shaky cell phone video? Amazing!
> 
> *My CV stage does not work. It completes the CC phase. Shows the parameters to start the CV stage, but then just switches to Step Completed and then goes to Charge Completed...... Any suggestions on that?*


Super! Glad we sorted that out. That's why I normally ask anyone with build issues to post their board photos as the first step. Am also glad you didn't start any unneeded surgeries...

On the CV stage - this has been reported a few times by different people. Time to investigate. 
* What is your firmware version? 
* Any mods since you downloaded from our site?
* Does the behavior change depending on output current in the CC stage?

Sometimes, if your CV point is too low, the cells don't have time to sag enough after CC stage terminates, and the charger measures voltage close to CV point and decides that CV stage is done, as well...

tomofreno had similar issues - Tom, can you chime in?


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> * What is your firmware version?
> * Any mods since you downloaded from our site?
> * Does the behavior change depending on output current in the CC stage?
> 
> tomofreno had similar issues - Tom, can you chime in?


Thanks again Valery, I'll get things running properly and then add the zeners (have to order some).

* Firmware : charger_2013_07_31_V12
* Mods : None, pure "stock" build
* No change with 15A or 25A, both skip CV

Is there a delay timer between phases? Could I just increase this?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

valerun said:


> ...tomofreno had similar issues - Tom, can you chime in?


 Yes. The charger would always terminate charging after CC when I had the CC/CV threshold at 3.48V. At 3.5V it would terminate after CC much of the time, but maybe around 30-40% of the time enter and complete CV. It seemed to complete CV better at higher charge currents. I then (a few months ago) changed it to 3.55V and it completes CV every time. Highest cells reach a max of 3.58V during the CV phase when charging at 55A, bit lower at lower currents. After sitting for about 1 hour the average cell V is 3.35V. All shunts are on by end of CV, and the TBS gauge triggers at 0.053C and resets to flash "Full". 

An average cell V of 3.55 would likely be a problem for a bottom balanced pack, depending on how well-matched the cells are. I wouldn't want to drive such a pack to that high of average cell voltage. Would be nice if the algorithm could be changed to make the transition more reliable at lower cell voltages, like 3.45V for bottom balanced packs.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

tomofreno said:


> Yes. The charger would always terminate charging after CC when I had the CC/CV threshold at 3.48V. At 3.5V it would terminate after CC much of the time, but maybe around 30-40% of the time enter and complete CV. It seemed to complete CV better at higher charge currents. I then (a few months ago) changed it to 3.55V and it completes CV every time. Highest cells reach a max of 3.58V during the CV phase when charging at 55A, bit lower at lower currents. After sitting for about 1 hour the average cell V is 3.35V. All shunts are on by end of CV, and the TBS gauge triggers at 0.053C and resets to flash "Full".
> 
> An average cell V of 3.55 would likely be a problem for a bottom balanced pack, depending on how well-matched the cells are. I wouldn't want to drive such a pack to that high of average cell voltage. Would be nice if the algorithm could be changed to make the transition more reliable at lower cell voltages, like 3.45V for bottom balanced packs.


Thanks Tom!

The easiest fix is to insert a delay(30000) between the two calls of the runChargeStep() function circa line 975: 
---------------------------
if(!runChargeStep(1, round(maxOutC), 1, maxOutV)) {
// CV step
delay(30000);
runChargeStep(2, maxOutV, 2, configuration.AH*min_CV_Crating);
}
---------------------------


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> Thanks Tom!
> 
> The easiest fix is to insert a delay(30000) between the two calls of the runChargeStep() function circa line 975:
> ---------------------------
> ...


Beautiful. Fixed the CV stage problem. *Thanks for all the help and input guys!*

I tweaked the screen outputs slightly and added the total time to the charge complete output. I think I'll also add a decimal to the Ah because rounding 9.4 down to 9 or 9.5 up to 10 would have critical effects on my calculations and data logging... (LOL...just kidding) 

*Curious about the CV length of time....it only lasted about 30-45 seconds.*

It seems to me that the CV stage should be much longer. Is it based on a % of the max charge current? Mine started at about 17.5A and quit at about 5.6A...did not taper any lower?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Old.DSMer said:


> It seems to me that the CV stage should be much longer. Is it based on a % of the max charge current? Mine started at about 17.5A and quit at about 5.6A...did not taper any lower?


I normally charge from 120 VAC so my starting current is about 6.5 amps and with 100AH cells it tapers to about 5 amps (C/20) but since the charging current is already below that at the start of the CV stage there isn't much of a CV stage. I expect that is what you are encountering as well.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

dougingraham said:


> I normally charge from 120 VAC so my starting current is about 6.5 amps and with 100AH cells it tapers to about 5 amps (C/20) but since the charging current is already below that at the start of the CV stage there isn't much of a CV stage. I expect that is what you are encountering as well.


Hi dougingraham, interesting info - thanks! How long have you been running this way and do you think it would cause any cell degredation?

My CC stage fluctuates around 17.5A and stops at 301V (3.50*86). With the pause we added to the code, the voltage drops back down to about 292V. The CV stage starts and ramps current up to 17-ish amps...until it reaches 301V. Then it tapers current back down while maintaining 301V. So 5A is the minimum allowable during CV stage. I wonder if this was set lower if it would be better? I know when I was running the PL6's...they would stay at the CV stage right down to a very small amperage...can't remember the exact number though.

*So is a longer CV stage better than immediate shut-off with a bottom balanced pack?*

I would guess a longer CV stage would be better with a top balancing BMS...but then that would be controlled by the BMS and EOC pins communicating with the BMS module. So the length of time at CV is controlled externally and not by the charger.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Old.DSMer said:


> I tweaked the screen outputs slightly and added the total time to the charge complete output. *I think I'll also add a decimal to the Ah ...*


I'm not familiar with Arduino coding and/or formatting. This does not appear to be as easy as I thought using the LCD print functions. Can anyone advise on the correct method to convert the floating point AH_charger variable to an ascii decimal string in order to print? I tried to mimic the PWM output, but it doesn't work.


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

*Re: charging cutoff*



Old.DSMer said:


> ...The CV stage starts and ramps current up to 17-ish amps...until it reaches 301V. Then it tapers current back down while maintaining 301V. So 5A is the minimum allowable during CV stage. I wonder if this was set lower if it would be better?


No it wouldn't unless you want to overcharge and damage your cells...The charging procedure indicates to STOP charging during the CV stage when the current falls to C/20--if you continue at a lower level you are overcharging and just go ask Boeing how 'float charging' worked out for them on the dreamliner 787.

p.s. Trust but Verify--i hope you have a good quality voltmeter and current probe with which to monitor and check that the voltage and current is accurate. It doesn't take much error at the top or bottom ends to go past the edge, it can happen quickly and the damage is irreversible--lessons learned...


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

kennybobby said:


> No it wouldn't unless you want to overcharge and damage your cells...The charging procedure indicates to STOP charging during the CV stage when the current falls to C/20--if you continue at a lower level you are overcharging and just go ask Boeing how 'float charging' worked out for them on the dreamliner 787.
> 
> p.s. Trust but Verify--i hope you have a good quality voltmeter and current probe with which to monitor and check that the voltage and current is accurate. It doesn't take much error at the top or bottom ends to go past the edge, it can happen quickly and the damage is irreversible--lessons learned...


Thanks for the info and concern kennybobby, definitely do not want to overcharge! I've only run a few short discharge and charge cycles so far. All cell measurements were exactly correct. I have been watching my smallest capacity cells and so far so good. I believe a BMS is in my future, if nothing else, for good data logging.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Old.DSMer said:


> Hi dougingraham, interesting info - thanks! How long have you been running this way and do you think it would cause any cell degredation?


Almost 2 years (4600 miles driven). I have told the charger 51 cells and 3.45 volts as the point to switch to CV mode so I am undercharging a little bit. It looks like to about 96%. The pack is bottom balanced. Sometime in July I am going to check the bottom balance.



Old.DSMer said:


> My CC stage fluctuates around 17.5A and stops at 301V (3.50*86). With the pause we added to the code, the voltage drops back down to about 292V. The CV stage starts and ramps current up to 17-ish amps...until it reaches 301V. Then it tapers current back down while maintaining 301V. So 5A is the minimum allowable during CV stage. I wonder if this was set lower if it would be better? I know when I was running the PL6's...they would stay at the CV stage right down to a very small amperage...can't remember the exact number though.


The CV current cutoff point is based on the capacity of the cells when you configure the charger. I believe it is C/20 which for 100AH cells is 5 amps. If you want a different stopping point you can tell it some other size of cell. I keep thinking I will spend some time on a code audit and add a proper configuration mode where you can manually enter all the parameters. I think the PL6 also by default uses C/20.



Old.DSMer said:


> So is a longer CV stage better than immediate shut-off with a bottom balanced pack?


With a bottom balanced pack you do not want to fully charge. An immediate shut off is probably to be preferred. My own experiments with Lithium types of cells show that if you fully charge there is a very slight tendency towards self top balancing. This happens because when a cell goes into the CV region the charge efficiency goes down very slightly and some of the charge energy is converted to heat. So if you are pushing your cells into the CV region for much time the weakest cell is going to eventually be un-bottom balanced. This is a very slow and subtle process and it takes many cycles to even see that it is happening. It certainly would not be able to initially top balance a pack but it will keep a pack from drifting out of top balance if you fully charge a top balanced pack. After many years of cycles the weakest cells in the bottom balanced pack will drift out of balance by a few hundred mah.

You can check the SOC of your LiFe pack by waiting 12 hours after the charger shuts off and measuring the voltage of all your cells. If the pack is bottom balanced the weakest cell will have the highest voltage. If you have fully charged the pack the cell with the highest voltage will be close to 3.4000 volts. If you leave it sit for a few days it will settle to just a little below that. If the highest cells are much above 3.4000 volts then you are slightly overcharging those cells.


----------



## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

not trying to be a buzz kill but what problems have people had with these chargers?
this thing could charge my pack in half an hour so it seems pretty good to me
iv just read in a few random places that people have had problems with them
is this due to people not taking enough care when putting it together or was it a problem with the pre assembled units?
thanks


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

arklan said:


> not trying to be a buzz kill but what problems have people had with these chargers?
> this thing could charge my pack in half an hour so it seems pretty good to me
> iv just read in a few random places that people have had problems with them
> is this due to people not taking enough care when putting it together or was it a problem with the pre assembled units?
> thanks


Care to post your source?

These chargers are quite mature. I personally don't use one because they are an overkill and certainly miss the whole point of those that dont need or want a super fast charger, but I would have my doubts if the product would give problems considering the current development state.

There are some things you need to be aware such as lack of isolation, but that is by design, not a fault, so you should familiarize yourself with the design and see if it fits. Power is adjustable so you don't really need to charge at full speed if you don't want to.

This comes in two flavours a fully built assembled and tested and a DIY kit. If you choose to go the DIY route make sure you have a good electronics knowledge.

Now, once you clarify this *issues* you've read about surely someone can give you some clarification.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

dougingraham said:


> Almost 2 years (4600 miles driven). I have told the charger 51 cells and 3.45 volts as the point to switch to CV mode so I am undercharging a little bit. It looks like to about 96%. The pack is bottom balanced. Sometime in July I am going to check the bottom balance.


Thanks dougingraham, good to hear your bottom balanced pack is healthy.




dougingraham said:


> The CV current cutoff point is based on the capacity of the cells when you configure the charger. I believe it is C/20 which for 100AH cells is 5 amps.


Right, sounds good to me - I'll leave it as-is and re-adjust if/when I get a BMS.



dougingraham said:


> With a bottom balanced pack you do not want to fully charge. An immediate shut off is probably to be preferred. My own experiments with Lithium types of cells show that if you fully charge there is a very slight tendency towards self top balancing. This happens because when a cell goes into the CV region the charge efficiency goes down very slightly and some of the charge energy is converted to heat. So if you are pushing your cells into the CV region for much time the weakest cell is going to eventually be un-bottom balanced. This is a very slow and subtle process and it takes many cycles to even see that it is happening. It certainly would not be able to initially top balance a pack but it will keep a pack from drifting out of top balance if you fully charge a top balanced pack. After many years of cycles the weakest cells in the bottom balanced pack will drift out of balance by a few hundred mah.
> 
> You can check the SOC of your LiFe pack by waiting 12 hours after the charger shuts off and measuring the voltage of all your cells. If the pack is bottom balanced the weakest cell will have the highest voltage. If you have fully charged the pack the cell with the highest voltage will be close to 3.4000 volts. If you leave it sit for a few days it will settle to just a little below that. If the highest cells are much above 3.4000 volts then you are slightly overcharging those cells.


Thanks for all the great info, I'll have to remove my covers and re-inspect. My cells stayed very close after bottom balancing - all within about 2%.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I top balance my pack.
Before the first use I wired all the cells in parallel and left them to balance for two days at 3.6V. After that I leave the individual cells stand for two weeks and measure the voltage again. They are typically within +/- 0.1V
If any cell drops too much then I don't use it, happened with two in 256.

The reason to do this is simply because I never leave my battery go down to a complete zero, so I want the top balanced so I don't need to worry with the charger.


So in practice any method will do it just depends if you prefer to be safe in a LVC or a HVC.

To avoid losing balance never discharge below 15% or charge above 95% as these regions are probe to lose balance due to non recoverable energy loss caused by the random increase in the internal impedance of the cells.


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

*My CV stage does not work. It completes the CC phase. Shows the parameters to start the CV stage, but then just switches to Step Completed and then goes to Charge Completed...... Any suggestions on that?*

I have the opposite problem: the CV stage never ends. CC ends correctly and CV begins as it should, but even with battery capacity set at 180 Ah, the CV stage will still be running with current at less than 2 amps. I also set capacity at 100 Ah with the same result. Any ideas?


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

gregsh said:


> I have the opposite problem: the CV stage never ends. CC ends correctly and CV begins as it should, but even with battery capacity set at 180 Ah, the CV stage will still be running with current at less than 2 amps. I also set capacity at 100 Ah with the same result. Any ideas?


What board versions and software version?


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

Originally Posted by *gregsh*  
_I have the opposite problem: the CV stage never ends. CC ends correctly and CV begins as it should, but even with battery capacity set at 180 Ah, the CV stage will still be running with current at less than 2 amps. I also set capacity at 100 Ah with the same result. Any ideas?_

_What board versions and software version?
_
V13 hardware, V12 software


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

gregsh said:


> *My CV stage does not work. It completes the CC phase. Shows the parameters to start the CV stage, but then just switches to Step Completed and then goes to Charge Completed...... Any suggestions on that?*
> 
> I have the opposite problem: the CV stage never ends. CC ends correctly and CV begins as it should, but even with battery capacity set at 180 Ah, the CV stage will still be running with current at less than 2 amps. I also set capacity at 100 Ah with the same result. Any ideas?



How do the voltages look? Does any cell reach HVC?
I seen some older/faulty cells whose voltage quickly drops to 3.4V, while the good ones stay at 3.5 or 3.6. 
Your BMS might be trying to balance the cells for this reason, leaving the chager stuck on the CV stage. Its worth to disable balancing and check voltages individually


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

valerun said:


> Jehu - your unit is going back to you this Sat. Thanks!


Hi Valery, hey can you specity which saturday you meant? another month has gone by and I still have no charger.


thanks


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

cts_casemod said:


> How do the voltages look? Does any cell reach HVC?
> I seen some older/faulty cells whose voltage quickly drops to 3.4V, while the good ones stay at 3.5 or 3.6.
> Your BMS might be trying to balance the cells for this reason, leaving the chager stuck on the CV stage. Its worth to disable balancing and check voltages individually


I don't use a BMS. I'm charging a _Better Place_ pack to 3.95 volts, although the cells could go to 4.2 volts. Other details that may or may not be relevant: 
1. the charger stays in the garage, not the car, so I plug in both sides every charge; 
2. I only discharge to 3.7 volts or so; 
3. cells are 2S2P in 48 modules, which I have hooked up in 3 parallel sets of 16 modules, for a nominal 125 volt system; 
4. cells are pretty well-matched for voltage so far. 
5. the charger has two inrush resistors on the AC side, and one on the DC side.
Shouldn't the software just be looking for .05C to tell it when to shut off?


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Not sure when you downloaded your software, but I did end up with 2 different programs that were both v12. I also had a v12 control board and 13 power board.

The charger software should use C/20 as shut off. I do not use an inrush limiter on the battery side. But I do run an output diode. It could be that extra resistor dissipating power. But the charger should still shut off.

Did you do any software mods? What date is your software file? Have you tried it without the battery-side resistor?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery Hi

During a long use (rather uneventfull too) of the charger in halfbridge 3phase mode i noticed that charger still doesnt want to go into CV mode at all. Rather it starts to lessen current when BMS is balancing. It goes down to 2A where it stays untill all shunts of my BMS are balancing. Then BMS commands charger shutoff and after a 5s delay this happens.

What i noticed was, the last cell that comes to 3,55V is kept there for a very short time and creeps down to 3,5V while others are still 3,54V since they were kept there longer. I have a feeling this is causing the last cell to slowly loose balance relative to other cells. 
To solve this i would like to keep charging for a limited time (5s) after shutoff command is given (i already use this). The shutoff command would then only pull PWM to gnd and would restart it after "if" loop is released, it wouldnt completely shutoff charger. After some 10x repeating this command charger would shutdown.

Do you think this could be done safely without charger going to shutoff immidiately? 

TNX

A


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Hi Valery , I havent heard back from you in a while, its been now 7 months since I sent you those chargers and its pretty clear to me that you either don't want to or can't for some reason work on my chargers, Unfortunately I've ran out of time I need to sort out a charger for my vehicle, I will be attending Re-Fuel this weekend and I would like to schedule either a pick up of the chargers at your shop or maybe at re-fuel if you are attending. Please let me know what would work for you, so I can get these chargers back and figure where to go from there.


thanks


jehu


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

I hope someone can help... I just started up the SmartCharge 12000 (PFC) for the first time and I'm having some trouble. I am going to the DMV tomorrow to get the vehicle inspected for my registration, and I'd really like to have it fully charged.

I am using an Open EVSE that I have built and tested on a friends Brammo Empulse R. The Open EVSE is fully functional. However, when I plug it into the SmartCharge 12000 charger it doesn't turn on. I have the pilot signal (J1772 CP - I also bought the J1772 receptacle from EMotorWerks) connected to the input cable (green wire). Is this the right signal?

To get going without the EVSE I've tried simply connecting a 115V power cable to the AC inputs (black to AC1, white to AC2 and green to chassis). The charger starts and I can configure everything except the input voltage. It always stays at 240V. I thought this charger should automatically recognize 90-260V AC?

In any case, If I could only figure out how to change the input voltage to 115V, and/or get the Open EVSE to connect (which I assume would allow the pilot signal to tell the charger to expect 115V) I would be good to go...

Please help ASAP if you can!!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sholland said:


> I am using an Open EVSE that I have built and tested on a friends Brammo Empulse R. The Open EVSE is fully functional. However, when I plug it into the SmartCharge 12000 charger it doesn't turn on. I have the pilot signal (J1772 CP - I also bought the J1772 receptacle from EMotorWerks) connected to the input cable (green wire). Is this the right signal?
> 
> To get going without the EVSE I've tried simply connecting a 115V power cable to the AC inputs (black to AC1, white to AC2 and green to chassis). The charger starts and I can configure everything except the input voltage. It always stays at 240V. I thought this charger should automatically recognize 90-260V AC?
> 
> ...


Hi Stephen - 

What does your OpenEVSE tell you when you plug the charger in? 

Also, is your J1772 ground connected to the box and to the black (ground) wire of the BMS/J1772 connector in the charger?

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jehu said:


> Hi Valery , I havent heard back from you in a while, its been now 7 months since I sent you those chargers and its pretty clear to me that you either don't want to or can't for some reason work on my chargers, Unfortunately I've ran out of time I need to sort out a charger for my vehicle, I will be attending Re-Fuel this weekend and I would like to schedule either a pick up of the chargers at your shop or maybe at re-fuel if you are attending. Please let me know what would work for you, so I can get these chargers back and figure where to go from there.
> 
> 
> thanks
> ...


Hi Jehu - 

I know this sucks - sorry about that. One thing after another, really. Why don't you drop by on Sunday and I will try to get at least one of these done by then?

Thanks,
Valery


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

valerun said:


> Hi Stephen -
> 
> What does your OpenEVSE tell you when you plug the charger in?
> 
> ...


The EVSE doesn't do anything. Does the proximity wire on the J1772 receptacle need to be attached to voltage divider?

The J1772 receptacle green wire and black (ground) wire of the BMS/J1772 connector in the charger are both connected to chassis.


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

Regardless of the EVSE, why doesn't the charger recognize the input is 115V or allow configuration to 115V when directly connected?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I already built another control board and driver board. I have a problem that could help someone also. I dont have 2N2222 transistors. I do have however like 100 BC547 signal transistors. I want to replace them for the S4, S5 and the D6 transistor for PWM pulldown. I checked the datasheet and they would be ok. Except for the current drain. BCs are 100mA transistor where 2N are 500mA. How much is the PWM output demand from driver board? Would those BC transistors be ok with your circuit? 
They are much easier to get here in EU.

TNX

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> great! yes, 1200V devices are slower, especially the older generations. Careful with lowering the frequency too much - the output current ripple goes up as you lower frequency. If you go too far in frequency reduction, you may saturate the inductor, overheat your caps, or overcurrent your IGBT. Best to check via a scope connected to a current sensor inline with the inductor. Normally you should see a linear sawtooth waveform for the inductor current. Saturation shows as curving up of the upslope current ramp. Generally, you don't want the slope of that upward part to increase more than 2x from the bottom of the sawtooth waveform to the top.


Can you explain how to connect my scope to sense current weaveform? Should i make a Y harness for the onboard hall current sensor and just connect scope to signal and gnd wires? I am preparing to reconfigure 3phase again. I will increase current from 30A in steps of 1A and observe the current at 14kHz.

tnx

Arber


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I already built another control board and driver board. I have a problem that could help someone also. I dont have 2N2222 transistors. I do have however like 100 BC547 signal transistors. I want to replace them for the S4, S5 and the D6 transistor for PWM pulldown. I checked the datasheet and they would be ok. Except for the current drain. BCs are 100mA transistor where 2N are 500mA. How much is the PWM output demand from driver board? Would those BC transistors be ok with your circuit?
> They are much easier to get here in EU.
> ...


would be ok. these npn's are driving pullup resistors - the smallest one being 200 ohm on a 5V rail - hence 25ma.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thank you V ill get on to it.

Can you answer as well on how to check for inductor saturation at 14khz? I mean how to connect the scope? I dont want to burn my probe...

tnx

A


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

So the question this morning is, do I do the 6 hour drive back to LA, or do I drive up 90 miles to Palo Alto to see if I can pick up those chargers? 
I kind of need to get back home to work , but I also really really need my charger situation settled


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I got it! I played a little with arduino program and i set up a loop that keeps charging on for enough time so every cell stays at 3,55V(or whatever you setup). While BMS jumps off at 42 cells balancing it is transient signal and can cause premature charger shutoff. So i ensured that it has to stay on a little longer for charger to shutoff. 
Here is the code modified:

// check HVC signal from BMS
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) { // active LOW (so you need to pull up by connecting miniBMS loop to EOC signal)
// BMS commanding charger to stop
delay(500); // noise protection - ensure signal stays on for 500ms or so
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) { // this is now for real
printClrMsg(MSG_BMSSTOP, 5000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
delay (1000); //delay current on for 1s to keep off transients
stopPWM(); //stop PWM but not charger, if next condition doesnt apply, charger resets
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) { 
delay(100); //noise protection for 100ms
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) { 
delay (200);
stopPWM();
return 1; // assume this is a normal end-of charge but do not allow any more steps (return 1)


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

I noticed on the power board (nonPFC) there is Vout terminal near B+ sign. Can you tell me is this irrelavant or is it something i must use. I will use diode on the B+ output leads. So if i remember correctly i have to connect Vout sense wire to the diode cathode side. Please confirm or warn me!!!

tnx

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i reconfigured my charger to 3phase full bridge again. It works currently at 30A output at 38°C. I ran it for an hour but then my battery was full and BMS stopped it.
So far i guess the thing works with 3800uF capacitance at 580VDC charging 150VDC with your largest inductor. It is cca 200mm with wire. All your other inductors i have seen are smaller. Can you tell me how much mH is it?










I changed switching to 13333Hz as suggested by Valery. It seems to work rather well. Charger is now producing audible buzz. No surprise since it is in audible range. Buzz is present trough the whole current range from 2A to 30A. Charger works at 27% duty, but when it comes trough 16A sound changes in intensity for a second and is the same again...

I also changed instantMaxCRatio from 1.4 to 1.6. When i changed capacitor configuration i noticed two opposite pole caps have dried out. I think it is because of too much current demand. I am thinking if i keep current ratio at 1.6 it will also lower induction requirements. Valery please comment true/false?

Since Valery suggest i should also increase induction i am thinking... I dont have the space to fit another inductor. However i could wire another 30 or so loops over the existing wiring Valery what do you think would this increase induction at all? 

I tried to check for saturation with scope. My scope is too small. I only got series of spikes with jagged edges. I would need a better scope...



A


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Is anyone working on a V14 Control board?
There doesn't appear to be any instructions yet, no parts list/schematic, the only V14 reference I can find is some Experimental Firmware.

Anyone hear from Valery on this yet? My emails have gone unanswered.

It's very close to the V13 control board, so I assembled using that as a reference, but there are a few parts leftover, just wondering if any of them are important to basic operation or are just for add ons?


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

New thread. After several weeks of successful charging, I need some help, but first, some background.


Input is 240VAC and 24 amps from a 30 amp circuit. There are two inrush resistors, one on each branch, on the input side. Output is roughly 128VDC and up to 44 amps. There was a single inrush resistor on the positive output. The inrush resistors were supplied with the kit. There was no output diode. I leave my charger at home and plug it into the wall and the car each night. 



I’d been charging with no issues until last Friday, when the inrush resistor on the output side disintegrated. I had no replacement inrush resistor, but I did have an IXYS output diode, so I hooked that up, mounting it on an external heatsink to get back into action. The first charge worked the same as always, but at 1-2 seconds into the second charge, there was a “pop”, a spark near the front of the charger, the circuit breaker tripped, and everything went dark and quiet.


An examination of the charger revealed only a burned resistor, R6 on the driver board. Questions:
1. Is that likely to be the only problem or is it the tip of the iceberg?
2. What did happen?
3. Will a new R6 fix it, and if not, how _can_ I fix it?
4. Are there any improvements I could make?
Thanks in advance for any guidance or insight.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

R6 is a 10 ohm 2 watt resistor from the gate driver U6 (or U7) to one of the IGBTs which could be in the PFC (pre-regulator) boost circuit or the PWM buck regulator which performs the charging function. Normally this resistor will see only 15V pulses from the driver U6 or U7 and peak current may be 15/10 or 1.5A for only 10 uSec or so while charging the gate capacitance. If the gate is shorted, the maximum power would be 2.25 * 10 or 22.5 watts, but the DC-DC converter can only provide 2W, so it is unlikely to burn up the resistor.

The more likely scenario, as was discussed several pages back, is that a high current surge through the IGBT was imposed on the gate, and without a zener or TVS diode (as was suggested and confirmed by Valery), this could destroy the gate as well as damage other components in the drive circuit (such as R6 and the driver and the DC-DC converter). IIRC this same scenario has occurred several times before, and IMHO there should be an urgent alert to add overvoltage protection on the gates. I suggest a 15V bidirectional TVS diode, while Valery suggests 18V zeners (there should be two in series back-to-back since gate voltage is +/- 15V).

You can perform a few simple tests on the IGBT to see if it has been destroyed or severely degraded. If the gate-emitter is not shorted, you should be able to apply 9 VDC from a small battery, and it should hold the charge and turn the IGBT ON and you can read continuity from collector to emitter, or use the battery with an LED or 12V lamp to see if it conducts. Then by shorting the B-E junction it should turn off. Any further testing would involve applying full voltage from a current-limited supply to see if the IGBT is breaking down at less than its rated voltage.

You might also try running the circuitry with the IGBTs disconnected, to see if you get normal voltages from the gate drivers and at other points. And you may also use an ohmmeter (with the circuit unpowered) to see if the output of the gate driver is shorted.

Good luck!


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

As Paul previously stated, test the low voltage circuitry after repairing the resistor. If the IGBT gate was damaged, I would highly suspect other components in the chain. If you apply power and have not repaired the other components, you will continue to fry things.

I had a similar "incident" except it was right after applying ac power, didn't even start the charge phase. And there was quite a bit of collateral damage.

I have received my order of zeners and isolated dc/dc with over current protection. But I have yet to install them. I need to find time for that.

Good luck with the repair and keep us updated! Also curious to know why you run an inrush limiter on the output? Is that to prevent a spark when you connect the pack? Do you then have a bypass relay? Or do you just constantly keep it connected?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well thats it, i am giving up this 3phase idea. It is too heavy and bulky to succesfuly implement. Also this 12kHz noise is horrible and my inductor is hot as hell.

The only working option i came up with so far is 3phase half bridge with separate single phase bridge and contactor that can switch N line between modes. It gives 6kW from the wall but 2,5mm2 cables and fuses are pretty hot running like this.

Next i tried to join two chargers together to see if i can run them each on its own phase. The N line would be common of course, but i figured since the loads are now two i could connect them to the battery.
Result were thrown fuses! I guess some second phase wave comes back trough N line of the first phase and it creates short. I tried to get some diodes to separate negative output, but i am having trouble in measuring battery voltage and hence chargers wont start. Next i will short the diodes with 10k resistors to quickly fill output caps, so charger can sense battery.

Major problem i was having with was imbalance of chargers. I had one that had 6kuF input caps and other 8kuF. I tried to run them at same frequency and 10A output, but it still caused some strange behaviour ultimately throwing fuses.

I have now built two identical small chargers with TO247 IGBT and 6kuF input and 2kuF output capacitance. Max current will be 25A. Inductors will be smaler but identical and running at 35kHz at least if not up to 80kHz. This should lower inductance requirements further...
The best thing of it: both will be run from 3phase input bridge at 600VDC, but they will be wired inline, so each will sense only 300VDC and hence survive 3phase. That means i could run at least 50A from 3phases. 

Valery can you discuss the charger control? Lets say i want to paralel the two charger outputs, how could i slave one to the other? I read somewhere you tried this yes?
I need to make chargers behave the same so the loads will be 50:50...

A


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

Thanks, Paul and Old.DSMer, for your quick replies. This will get me started in my troubleshooting. 
To answer Old.DSMer's question, the unit was built without an output diode, so I put an inrush resistor on the output to control precharge and to minimize the spark. (Even with the resistor, there was some spark.) There is no bypass relay; the inrush resistor is working the entire time, just like on the input side. There is a small voltage drop, but I could compensate for that in the configuration. In hindsight, perhaps the ~44 amp load was too close to the 50 amp resistor capacity, resulting in the short life that I saw.

To avoid a repeat event, I have some questions (please see my previous message for needed details):
1.  Could the installation of the output diode have caused or contributed to the failure I experienced, if I did it properly? (I did get one proper charge out of the setup with the diode.) 
2.  Could the installation of the output diode have caused or contributed to the failure I experienced, if I did it incorrectly, or would it just not work?
3.  What is the “best” way to precharge the output capacitors to protect output components?
4.  Is there something else that I should be doing to prevent high current surges, beyond what has been discussed so far? 
5. Is the B-E junction a typo, or do I know even less than I thought? What should it be?

Thanks again.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

For testing the IGBT, the B-E junction is correct, not a typo. (Well, technically, it might be more correct to say G(ate)-E(mitter) You apply a voltage to the gate to charge its capacitance and turn it on, then short B-E to discharge it and turn the device off.

Here is the schematic of the power board and external components:










The input limiters are shown as 0.5R 50A, and typically they will drop to about 1/10 cold resistance when running full current. So 50A and 0.05R will be 125W each. I don't have exact part number or specs, but I have used smaller NTCs and they have overheated and disintegrated after some time. Using forced air cooling may "backfire" because it might make them cooler and the resistance could double and the power could be doubled also.

The 600V 50A output diode will only prevent the battery pack from charging the output capacitors. If the capacitors are already charged up and higher in voltage than the pack, they will discharge through the diode into the pack. The only bleeder resistor I see is the 200k R4, with about 2000 uF, so the TC appears to be 400 seconds. It might be good to use something like a 1 ohm 100 watt resistor with a switch or contactor across it so that you can bypass it once things are equalized and you want to start charging.

Maybe I'll make a short video about how to test an IGBT.

Somebody's already done it:


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> Is anyone working on a V14 Control board?
> There doesn't appear to be any instructions yet, no parts list/schematic, the only V14 reference I can find is some Experimental Firmware.
> 
> Anyone hear from Valery on this yet? My emails have gone unanswered.
> ...


Hi Robin - sorry must have missed your emails. V14 control board can be built per V13 instructions. 

V14 power board can also be built per V13 instructions. 

V14 driver board IS substantially different and we are releasing schematics and manuals any day now - doing final proofreading. 

Thanks,
valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Paul for picking up some slack while I was out. We are going through UL certification of our JuiceBox EVSE and it's a _major_ project that drives me a bit crazy and soaks up most of the time...

Anyway, regarding R6 problem. Most likely it's a typical string of IGBT+DriverChip+DC/DC+R6 cascading failures. They start with IGBT failure. 

Conceivably, this could have happened due to voltage on PFC caps ramping up too quickly on AC connection and driving a gate of an output IGBT through Miller capacitance to the point of output IGBT turning on and shorting into empty output caps. 

What is Miller turn on? Basically, due to IGBT having capacitance between C and G (normally denoted as C_res in datasheets), C-E voltage rise can drive G-E voltage rise. The maximum possible G-E voltage in this case is simply V_ce * C_ies / C_res (C_ies being input capacitance of IGBT). Typical values for 100-200A 600V devices, C_ies is ~10nF, C_res ~0.5nF - forming a capacitive voltage divider with 20:1 ratio. With a typical threshold G-E voltage of ~6V, sufficiently quick collector voltage rise to just 120V can trigger a Miller turn-on. 

In reality, there is always resistance between G-E that quickly bleeds that voltage below the threshold. Normally this is a very small gate driver resistance - 10R in our design. This 10R resistance forms an RC circuit with time constant of just 100ns - this means that the initial voltage on C_ies will drop to just 37% of its initial value within 100ns. Given the relative slowness of the IGBTs, this 'blip' of G-E voltage will not result in any appreciable effect. The problem is that at the initial charger power-up the IGBT driver is not active for a few tens of milliseconds (dc/dc has not yet provided sufficient supply to 3120 driver chip) and the gate is tied to emitter only with a 10k gate shunting resistor. Now the time constant is 1,000 times longer, or 100us. Given sufficiently bad timing (e.g., AC connected to charger at the peak of AC wave) and very 'stiff' AC supply (e.g., right at the main house panel with 200A service), this could result in a few microseconds of output IGBT turn-on. Given the output capacitance of ~2,000uF, such an event would be equivalent to a dead short if the caps are at zero volts (or any voltage sufficiently below the collector voltage). Given that 145A IGBTs we use are spec'ed at only 6us short-circuit withstand time, one can see the risk.

Further, there are a few things that would make things worse: (1) hot inrush resistors, (2) any distance between driver board and IGBT, (3) higher input voltage, (4) any additional capacitance on the output

Given the number of these chargers out there, this combination of factors, however unlikely, seems to have played out in at least two documented cases. It never happened to us in the lab and we have every single one of the fully assembled chargers powered up at least 5 times for testing before we send them out. That's a lot of power-ups. 


What can be done to reduce likelihood of this type of failure (from easy hacks to more involving proper fixes):

0. Try not to subject your charger to harsh conditions. Have input or output constantly connected (to AC and battery, respectively). Do not power into hot inrush resistors (or no resistors at all). Etc.

1. Reduce the size of gate shunting resistor (from 10k to something between 1 and 3k). This will help shunt Miller currents. This increases power draw on the Dc/DC so should be approached with care. 1k resistor will result in 0.23W dissipation (out of ~1.5W power reserve from 2W Dc/dc used). Paul actually suggested this one before but for a different reason. 

2. Add a capacitor between gate and emitter. In the AppNote below, Infineon recommends a value of such capacitor to be ~ 0.01 Qge if there is a possibility of Miller turn-ons. For a 145A IGBT we use, this would mean ~10nF (which is ~equal to the input capacitance of the IGBT itself). Any increase in gate capacitance increases dissipation in the driver circuitry so has to be approached with care. The total gate capacitance is being recharged from -15V to +15V and back every cycle. This means CapRechargePower = 2* C *15^2 * f. At 20kHz, every 1nF contributes 0.009W. Same amount of power is dissipated in the gate resistor. Call it total of 0.02W per nF. 10nF+10nF would mean 0.4W so there is probably some room to further increase capacitance. Maybe even 20nF could be tolerated - which would increase the division factor of the capacitive divider form 20:1 to 60:1 which would make Miller turn-on from standard 240VAC input impossible even theoretically. 

3. Do both #1 and #2 (say, 2.7k and 10nF). Watch power balance of dc/dc converter per above.

4. Install a proper precharge relay circuit. Charger software and control board already have provisions for that - just add a relay and bypass resistor. The procedure is described in the build manual.

5. Add an active miller clamp circuit. This is the best approach but requires a change in PCB layout. 

More info on Miller effects & mitigation techniques: https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infin...90004&fileId=db3a304412b407950112b40ed1711291

Hope this makes sense. 

PS. And of course, you should add those back-to-back 18V 5W zeners between each IGBT's G and E

Thanks,
Valery


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Excellent explanation, Valery. I had not considered the possibility of the IGBT turning ON due to Miller capacitance, but only the more serious (but less likely) event that the maximum gate voltage could be exceeded. The gate voltage would have to rise almost instananeously, because otherwise the IGBT would turn ON (within a few microseconds) and the collector voltage would drop, thus limiting the gate voltage to safe levels.

So then the problem could be the surge current from the supply side into the discharged output capacitors. This might be addressed with an NTC resistor as now used on the input, or a current limiting resistor with a bypass relay or switch that takes it out of the circuit once things are stabilized. Of course, that relay or switch would need to be rated at something like 300 VDC and 50 amps, so it's not a trivial component. Perhaps it would be best implemented on the input, where it would be handling AC and thus a more ordinary multipole 20-40A contactor could be used.

Another possibility is adding a small SPDT relay to the gate circuit that would disconnect the drive and connect G-E until things have stabilized.

The only thing I still disagree with is your suggestion to use two 18V zeners back-to-back. I think a bidirectional TVS rated at 15-18V would exhibit a sharper turn-on and will hold the voltage below a level of damage at much higher surge current levels.

PS: I was looking at the wrong capacitor bank when I calculated the TC in my previous post. I'll correct that.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Paul - 

interesting suggestion on the small relay on gate. haven't thought about that one. Although I think that active miller clamp would serve the same purpose, as well. 

I still think the best starting point would be to reduce the gate shunting resistor to 2.7k (from 10k) and add a 10nF (0.01uF) ceramic cap in parallel with that resistor). 

That would help with the potential root cause we have identified and can be done extremely easily. 

V


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

Thanks for all the suggestions; it looks like I have my work cut out for me for a while. 
Regarding output capacitor precharging, however, couldn’t I just put a modest power capacity 1k ohm or similar sized resistor across the 50A output diode and leave it connected all the time? I calculate RC at about 2.2 seconds, and since I plug in the batteries before the ac, I easily get to 5 time constants before charging starts. The batteries would slowly precharge the caps, and when battery charging started, wouldn’t essentially all the current pass through the diode, and almost none through the resistor?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The resistor should work pretty well, I would think. You might also be able to use one or two 120V incandescent lamps which will give a visual indication of the battery pack charging the capacitors. A 40 watt bulb has about 25 ohms resistance when cold but about 350 ohms when fully lit, so it should charge up the capacitors pretty quickly when first connected and then taper off. It will also eliminate the diode voltage drop when measuring the pack voltage with little or no current being supplied, but that may be insignificant.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valery .... were are my parts .... 3 months now ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> valery .... were are my parts .... 3 months now ...


lost in transit from you to us. as you know. we are sending you the replacement


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

gregsh said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions; it looks like I have my work cut out for me for a while.
> Regarding output capacitor precharging, however, couldn’t I just put a modest power capacity 1k ohm or similar sized resistor across the 50A output diode and leave it connected all the time? I calculate RC at about 2.2 seconds, and since I plug in the batteries before the ac, I easily get to 5 time constants before charging starts. The batteries would slowly precharge the caps, and when battery charging started, wouldn’t essentially all the current pass through the diode, and almost none through the resistor?



yes, this would work.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi

Sorry for changing subject...

Regarding 3phase i tried most options and failed! 
I intend to try another version that would likely work.

Two stage buck charger. 
1. power goes IN trough 3phase bridge and is rectified to 600VDC. 
2. There are two large 4700uF 450V caps wired for smoothing
3. IGBT 1200V 100A is drived by fixed PWM duty signal from port 11 of existing arduino pro mini control pcb. This is one of the faster PWM ports and also not used now, since i dont use 110V doubler relay. 1st stage Driver board i will make according to existing schematic
4. Inductor for 380V 25A
5. Output caps are also second stage input caps - 2000uF with 15uF snubber cap.
6. What follows next is the rest of the existing NonPFC buck charger.

This should now work with a little changes in software. Mostly adding soft starting PWM on port 11 to precharge second stage caps. Then port 11 PWM would run independent from the rest of charger.

Valery:
What frequency do you reccomend for 60% duty 600VDC to 350VDC. I was thinking 8kHz since there can be more turns due to less amps on first inductor. Do you think it would be impleasant? 

tnx

Arber


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## jehu (Oct 28, 2012)

Alright guys, 
1st thanks Valery for delivering my charger to my office, its been charging my Samba ever since.

2) I always threatened to come back and finish building a charger and I've decided to start again. Im going to start by milling a custom liquid cooled milled aluminum case, I will attempt to pot the inductors using that thermal epoxy Valery posted a link to somewhere back in this thread. Here is the basic design:








I just got my set of v14 PCB boards but I think I'm missing the input diode board, can you confirm if Im supposed to get one of those Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

hi Guys - 

Just got a set of V14 docs posted. Some minor glitches may still remain. By the end of next week, will have in tip-top shape. V14 is what ships now. 

Check them out here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing

Jehu - yes, no separate bridge board anymore - we now use an integrated bridge module. 

Val


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> lost in transit from you to us. as you know. we are sending you the replacement


that doesn't tell me shit about were my parts are ...I have emails from you dating two weeks ago saying they would ship out the next day !! .... where are my parts im VERY annoyed with this hassle of a waste of time from your company. in part by your company directly and indirectly !! 

this makes no sense at all !!! 3 months to get two working charger boards !!! and wait I still haven't got them yet !!! better yet lets hope this time you guys get them mounted properly !! ...

sorry if I sound arrogant ! at this point in time _I very much am more than annoyed with this b.s and nonsense ! _


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> Hi Robin - sorry must have missed your emails. V14 control board can be built per V13 instructions.
> 
> V14 power board can also be built per V13 instructions.
> 
> ...


For anyone else reading this it's INCORRECT. If you want a shot at a working charger do NOT use V13 instructions, they will get you part way but don't work.



valerun said:


> hi Guys -
> 
> Just got a set of V14 docs posted. Some minor glitches may still remain. By the end of next week, will have in tip-top shape. V14 is what ships now.
> 
> ...


Turns out there are quite a few differences between the v13 and v14 control boards... At least we have a first round of documents and firmware.



crackerjackz said:


> that doesn't tell me shit about were my parts are ...I have emails from you dating two weeks ago saying they would ship out the next day !! .... where are my parts im VERY annoyed with this hassle of a waste of time from your company. in part by your company directly and indirectly !!
> 
> this makes no sense at all !!! 3 months to get two working charger boards !!! and wait I still haven't got them yet !!! better yet lets hope this time you guys get them mounted properly !! ...
> 
> sorry if I sound arrogant ! at this point in time _I very much am more than annoyed with this b.s and nonsense ! _


I hear your pain, I purchased a Deluxe dashboard quite awhile ago, I had issues with the board as well as the bluetooth transceiver. At the same time I backed the kickstarter for the Juicebox, Valery had said he would replace the Deluxe Dashboard PCB as well as the bluetooth module. Given I didn't need it right away I said it could ship with the Juicebox to save shipping and hassle.

Juicebox turns up by itself, no problem it was almost a year after backing it so easy to forget. All emails go unanswered. 

Order a new charger kit for a member of this board, he assembled my adapter plate I'm assembling his charger. Request that the missing Deluxe dashboard/bluetooth module get shipped with this new charger. Charger arrives by itself. Again emails go unanswered, emails asking for instruction and documentation or just a simple list of differences/changes between v13 and v14. No answer.....

The previous answer above says build it from V13 documents but doesn't mention any king of warning about use it only as a starting point, wait for the V14 documents to complete the board.

The display was also DOA, however I had a spare from the previous version charger that I haven't finished yet. So I believe I have the charger running, it's charging a 12v battery right now, have to see what happens over time.

I'll have to do some digging in the firmware and see if I can make some changes though, timer is now in seconds (not simply includes seconds.... is in seconds) Also I'll have to find out what dAH's are because they sure aren't Amp Hours.
1096 seconds is just over 18 minutes so I would expect about 1/3'd of the 1.4-1.5A current which is close to 0.4Ah = 4 dAH??

I would have much preferred a V13 board that I could have assembled/tested and sent on to the end user who is patiently waiting for a charger.

Valery?


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dAH = 0.1AH

Robin - we just sent you a full refund for the dash. The product has been discontinued. 

cracker - you want us to send you a refund for your boards, as well? You got them at cost of components. We built them and sent them to you. You received them but wanted the headers be moved to the opposite side. They got lost in the mail on the way back to us. Post office and our mailbox company are still 'investigating'. Sorry we did not meet your expectations.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

upon a bit of reflection, it's pretty clear to me that we are not doing a good job on non-standard orders (partial builds, kit diagnostics, kit repairs, etc, etc). Mostly because such orders are huge time sinks and they constantly get deprioritized vs standard orders that can be fulfilled efficiently.

So we will no longer be taking any custom orders. Basically, if it does not exist in our online store, it cannot be ordered. 

We will likely also soon discontinue charger kits altogether. Nobody is ever happy with documentation (rightly so) and when people make mistakes they of course blame us. Add to that a relatively low volume of orders and our lack of margin on them and support of kits looks like a pretty dumb business decision...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> For anyone else reading this it's INCORRECT. If you want a shot at a working charger do NOT use V13 instructions, they will get you part way but don't work.
> 
> Turns out there are quite a few differences between the v13 and v14 control boards... At least we have a first round of documents and firmware.


V14 control board CAN be built using V12/13 instructions. The only potential gotcha is that the C40 cap in V12/13 instructions is now C3 on the silkscreen. The board _looks_ different but schematic is the same

V14 control board, built per V12/13 instructions WILL work with V12 firmware. It will NOT work with V14 firmware. To use V14 firmware, you need to build per V14 instructions.

V14 power board CAN be built using V12/13 instructions. The only difference is instead of all large elcaps being parallel, we now use a 2p elcap config to extend voltage range of the charger. V14 power board built per V12/13 instructions can ONLY be used with a V13 driver board.

V14 driver board can only be built per V14 instructions. If you have a V14 driver board, you will also HAVE to build the power board per V14 instructions. 

Hope this helps. Robin - what issue did you have with the V14 control board that made you believe it cannot be built per V12/13 instructions?

Thanks,
Valery


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> dAH = 0.1AH
> 
> Robin - we just sent you a full refund for the dash. The product has been discontinued.
> 
> cracker - you want us to send you a refund for your boards, as well? You got them at cost of components. We built them and sent them to you. You received them but wanted the headers be moved to the opposite side. They got lost in the mail on the way back to us. Post office and our mailbox company are still 'investigating'. Sorry we did not meet your expectations.


Thank you for resolving this once and for all.



valerun said:


> upon a bit of reflection, it's pretty clear to me that we are not doing a good job on non-standard orders (partial builds, kit diagnostics, kit repairs, etc, etc). Mostly because such orders are huge time sinks and they constantly get deprioritized vs standard orders that can be fulfilled efficiently.
> 
> So we will no longer be taking any custom orders. Basically, if it does not exist in our online store, it cannot be ordered.
> 
> We will likely also soon discontinue charger kits altogether. Nobody is ever happy with documentation (rightly so) and when people make mistakes they of course blame us. Add to that a relatively low volume of orders and our lack of margin on them and support of kits looks like a pretty dumb business decision...


I honestly think this is a great decision. Build the charger and sell it complete, if you want to do something nice for the community simply publish something like V14 as the open source charger and leave it at that. Continue development in house and more importantly keep control of the final product.



valerun said:


> V14 control board CAN be built using V12/13 instructions. The only potential gotcha is that the C40 cap in V12/13 instructions is now C3 on the silkscreen. The board _looks_ different but schematic is the same
> 
> V14 control board, built per V12/13 instructions WILL work with V12 firmware. It will NOT work with V14 firmware. To use V14 firmware, you need to build per V14 instructions.
> 
> ...


I emailed photo's of the behavior, V12/13 assembly running V12/13 firmware it looked like something related to input current just wasn't working, I never dug into it because I had no information saying it could work, I had already wasted a huge amount of time on what should be a straightforward build.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Robin - 

when you say display was DOA, what does that mean? Does not power up? Does not display what you expect? Something else? Note that you need to match the LCD type #define switch in the firmware to your LCD type. Your older LCD likely has a different version of LCD firmware on it compared to latest ones that ship with kits. 

re input voltage measurement at 'random values' as you mentioned in your email from this past Saturday: 

1. Are you using a new Arduino Pro Mini that has not been programmed before or you reused the older one? What you see seems like a previously programmed EEPROM data read into a different struct. We changed the format of the config struct a few times in the past months so you might just see that. 

2. Regardless, you should be able to overwrite by going through a full config procedure. For that, you should know that config is not getting written out into the EEPROM until the charger actually goes into the charging mode (you will know that by seeing duty display 'D: XXX' on top of the screen. If you reset before that, the config will not take

3. is your 5V line connected from control to driver board? It is needed for input voltage measurement


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

re lags replying to emails - I will not normally reply to any emails when answers could benefit more than the person who is asking the question. In that case, I will post the answers to the forum instead. Just like I did with the V14 vs V13 vs V12 questions a few days ago. Etc.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Finally, a relevant parallel from our JuiceBox EVSE experience. 

We have recently discontinued all kits except the most simple one. After sending over 500 kits out, we have realized that most people don't have any idea of how unskilled they really are.

We also started to completely refuse kit returns for any reason. Over 90% of the kits returned to us due to 'problems with components supplied' were actually damaged during builds by things like errors in power supply connections, shorting the board when trying to measure voltages, etc. See the skills point above...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Valery: Do you have any surplus older boards or damaged/junk assemblies? I don't really need a high power charger but I might be able to repurpose the boards and some components for a DC-DC boost converter. I would be willing to pay for shipping cost and perhaps some extra for some of the components. It may also help me to be able to help others who have the kits and are having problems. I agree that the issues are probably caused by errors in assembly and testing, and skill levels are highly variable. Considering the high power levels involved and the dangers of catastrophic failure of components, as well as their high cost, it is probably best to discontinue the kits, although perhaps you may continue to offer the bare boards and components for those who may need replacements, or who can build a charger from the schematics rather than a step-by-step instruction.

Please PM me if you would be willing to do this. Thanks.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> Robin -
> 
> when you say display was DOA, what does that mean? Does not power up? Does not display what you expect? Something else? Note that you need to match the LCD type #define switch in the firmware to your LCD type. Your older LCD likely has a different version of LCD firmware on it compared to latest ones that ship with kits.
> 
> ...


Attached is a photo of the G2 display. It does this when plugged into the control board or the 4D systems cable. The other display boots up on it's own with some 4D systems info when plugged into the 4D systems cable.

I redid the config each time I changed something, at the moment it's working, after installing the missing parts per the V14 instructions and using the V14 firmware. There is a "static" type sound on power up at 120v using an inrush limiter on each leg. I haven't been able to do any high power tests, however a low voltage 20A test revealed some odd sounds. I'm not sure if it's the same as what Old.DSMer encountered or not, but I need to do a bit more testing. I'll try charging my car with it tomorrow and see what happens. 

I hope you continue the development of this charger but assemble them in house, I'm sure it would keep your margins higher and let you keep control of revisions much easier while virtually eliminating your customer support requirements and document process. I know my process is very different for a public kit, vs something I assemble in house.

You may also want to look at SMD if you build more of these in house to increase efficiency and possibly reduce the driver/control board size, or even merge them into a single board. It would also be easy to put the Atmel chip on the board and not require a "real" arduino. Bring the cost down where it makes sense.

I've switched my small run Headphone Amplifiers from all through hole to about 80% SMD and using a solder stencil and small reflow oven I can assemble a batch of boards in about 1/3rd the time of the through hole version. SMD also allowed me to vastly improve the layout for much higher performance.

During prototyping get your SMD stencils here:
http://www.oshstencils.com/
They are decent quality and dirt cheap, they are good for small production runs, but cheap enough for prototyping a single board.

Good luck, I hope you can still find a place in the EV components marketplace, your products just need more refinement and polish before they are released.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can get small quantities of machine-assembled SMD boards for a rather reasonable cost. I use www.aapcb.com and they assembled 40 4"x6" boards with about 80 components for about $50/each, using my components which I sent them as a kit. They are OK with cut tape and loose components. Here is an image of part of the board:










Some of the components are thru-hole and I assemble those myself. Only takes about 20 minutes per board.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

rwaudio said:


> I hope you continue the development of this charger but assemble them in house, I'm sure it would keep your margins higher and let you keep control of revisions much easier while virtually eliminating your customer support requirements and document process. I know my process is very different for a public kit, vs something I assemble in house.
> 
> You may also want to look at SMD if you build more of these in house to increase efficiency and possibly reduce the driver/control board size, or even merge them into a single board. It would also be easy to put the Atmel chip on the board and not require a "real" arduino. Bring the cost down where it makes sense.


I second all of that. With the GEVCU project we initially were using an Arduino Due installed upside down onto our board. That was a mess and prone to problems. Eventually we moved all the relevant parts to our own board but maintained total compatibility with the Arduino Due in terms of IDE support. So far as the IDE knows it's still a Due. Basically everything possible is SMD. I think that it can be a great thing to build boards that still support the Arduino IDE. That allows people to get involved who probably couldn't get a more complicated build environment setup and who probably don't have JTAG programmers and all that fun stuff.

For the GEVCU project we don't offer kits. A few of us considered it for a while but we decided not to for basically all the reasons that EMW now doesn't want to offer them. It's hard to put together a complicated board and not ruin something. When you go to 0402 SMD components and fine pitch processors it's hard to get them soldered properly if you are a hobbyist. But, our schematics are open source too. I do know of people who have put their own boards together - it's actually reasonably common. But, 10-20x more people buy them than assemble them. And, if all you do is post the schematics you can nearly guarantee that only the super hardcore people will attempt to do it themselves. That's fine by me.

Just my two cents.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> dAH = 0.1AH
> 
> Robin - we just sent you a full refund for the dash. The product has been discontinued.
> 
> cracker - you want us to send you a refund for your boards, as well? You got them at cost of components. We built them and sent them to you. You received them but wanted the headers be moved to the opposite side. They got lost in the mail on the way back to us. Post office and our mailbox company are still 'investigating'. Sorry we did not meet your expectations.


I dont want a refund on the parts i want a working charger .... i didnt ask to have the pins moved side for pleasure its a must for a non pfc build .... THE BOARD WAS WRONGLY BuilT .... i didnt ask for cost price you screwed up ... dont turn this on me ... you screwed up now fix it by sending me a proper working non pfc driver board and new igbt like i paid for 3 months ago ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

To anyone who might concern.

I got a problem (two connected i think actually) that keeps persisting and havent figured out a solution.

I built a single phase 230VAC NonPFC charger. V13 driver, V12 control board and standard NonPFC power board. I use it to charge 28A from EU single phase. No problem here, BUT!

1. After a while my charger goes to "pause". You have to manually trigger button to continue charging.

2. After finishing charge i cant return to "run" option again. Its as if arduino would freeze. But if i take off the LCD cable it goes to "run" screen by itself. I also noticed arduino having somewhat slower response than i remember inb V11 and V12 early software.

I replaced the arduino chip but no avail.
I tried to use another V12 control board, no difference here
I tried to change buttons etc...
When i took button connectors off, charger worked OK, but after end of charge i connected buttons and again no change. I even tried to short button pins together but no reaction. 

Could it be that button port resistors are too large? I use 1K now, i could add 680R for the buttons only.

Has anyone here seen anything similar? 
Luckily all charger functions are good, but this glitch makes it annoying.

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

crackerjackz said:


> I dont want a refund on the parts i want a working charger .... i didnt ask to have the pins moved side for pleasure its a must for a non pfc build .... THE BOARD WAS WRONGLY BuilT .... i didnt ask for cost price you screwed up ... dont turn this on me ... you screwed up now fix it by sending me a proper working non pfc driver board and new igbt like i paid for 3 months ago ...




Valery .... guess what ? Im still waiting to know where my charger parts are ?..... should i paste your email from 2 weeks ago stating youd build a new board and send it tommorow ? Your services suck ass .... i regret having bought anything from emw . But now im stuck and have no choice .... send me the damn parts so i can get the damn charger finished and over with ..... ive never had services from anywhere or anyone as bad as yours .... aweful ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> Attached is a photo of the G2 display. It does this when plugged into the control board or the 4D systems cable. The other display boots up on it's own with some 4D systems info when plugged into the 4D systems cable.
> 
> I redid the config each time I changed something, at the moment it's working, after installing the missing parts per the V14 instructions and using the V14 firmware. There is a "static" type sound on power up at 120v using an inrush limiter on each leg. I haven't been able to do any high power tests, however a low voltage 20A test revealed some odd sounds. I'm not sure if it's the same as what Old.DSMer encountered or not, but I need to do a bit more testing. I'll try charging my car with it tomorrow and see what happens.
> 
> ...


yes, of course. but given the volume of the conversion market, this just doesn't make much sense. 

We are doing full SMT builds for our EVSE products - soon will hit 2,000 sold. When we see path to this kind of volume on this product, we will move to SMT. Otherwise every design iteration is expensive contracted work.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Valery .... guess what ? Im still waiting to know where my charger parts are ?..... should i paste your email from 2 weeks ago stating youd build a new board and send it tommorow ? Your services suck ass .... i regret having bought anything from emw . But now im stuck and have no choice .... send me the damn parts so i can get the damn charger finished and over with ..... ive never had services from anywhere or anyone as bad as yours .... aweful ...


this is enough. I have just sent you a refund for your boards. You can keep the control board you have. I will not tolerate your insults anymore. I wonder how effective your approach is with other people.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> To anyone who might concern.
> 
> I got a problem (two connected i think actually) that keeps persisting and havent figured out a solution.
> 
> ...


Arber - is your LCD remote or mounted on the board?

Long wires can pick up noise and conduct it into the Arduino over Serial UART lines. This could result in freeze-ups. We had this happen before. That is one of the reasons for installing LCD on board. 

If you do want to install LCD off board, I would try to run shielded cable and route it as far as possible from high-power components

Hope this helps. 

Thanks,
Valery


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

CKidder said:


> I second all of that. With the GEVCU project we initially were using an Arduino Due installed upside down onto our board. That was a mess and prone to problems. Eventually we moved all the relevant parts to our own board but maintained total compatibility with the Arduino Due in terms of IDE support. So far as the IDE knows it's still a Due. Basically everything possible is SMD. I think that it can be a great thing to build boards that still support the Arduino IDE. That allows people to get involved who probably couldn't get a more complicated build environment setup and who probably don't have JTAG programmers and all that fun stuff.
> 
> For the GEVCU project we don't offer kits. A few of us considered it for a while but we decided not to for basically all the reasons that EMW now doesn't want to offer them. It's hard to put together a complicated board and not ruin something. When you go to 0402 SMD components and fine pitch processors it's hard to get them soldered properly if you are a hobbyist. But, our schematics are open source too. I do know of people who have put their own boards together - it's actually reasonably common. But, 10-20x more people buy them than assemble them. And, if all you do is post the schematics you can nearly guarantee that only the super hardcore people will attempt to do it themselves. That's fine by me.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Thanks Collin - great to see you here! ;-)

Yes, you're absolutely right. 

BTW I am thinking of you every time we work on our CHAdeMO chargers ;-) Some good recent progress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heJOTydLijY&list=UU2eyEqWJ9muVsTaPiCobO_A

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Arber - is your LCD remote or mounted on the board?
> 
> Long wires can pick up noise and conduct it into the Arduino over Serial UART lines. This could result in freeze-ups. We had this happen before. That is one of the reasons for installing LCD on board.
> 
> ...


Hm... yes i am using 30cm UTP off-site cable. Maybe this is so, but i got another charger working flawlessly with the same setup. 
One difference is the first charger is already in aluminum box versus the other which is setup on heatsink only...
Other difference is first LCD is old one and second (with a glitch) is LCD SPE.

For now i resoldered button pulldown resistors and button wires. I will try to charge today and see how it goes.

For the shielded cable, how would you connect the shield? Could i just connect it to pcb 0V as GND or do i need to ground it in a car?

tnx

A


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## 2010Ranger (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you Val...... I too have had enough of this rant and incivility


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Hi Valery,
My charger is still working fine, and has greatly increased the use of my ev for longer trips thanks to shorter charging time. Nice going out to the garage in the morning and seeing the TBS gauge flashing "Full". Also nice seeing all the LEDs on the minibms light up just a few minutes before end of charge at 3.5V/cell. 

I understand you not wanting to offer kits, but I’m glad you did for a while so that I could build one. I’m surprised you lasted as long as you did supporting them. Most of my problems during the build were self-imposed, and I marveled at the time and effort you spent fielding questions from myself and others at no cost. A valiant effort indeed! 
I sympathize with Robin and others who waited so long for orders, but like I said in the past, it is not surprising to see from a small start-up with very limited resources and so many irons in the fire. I think you could have made it a little easier on yourself with a more disciplined PDR and much less frequent and more controlled releases, but it would still be a big time sink fielding questions and packaging the kits. You get much better ROI selling completed product – and less frustration from customers. Good luck on your continuing work, and thanks for supporting the kits for so long!


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> Thanks Collin - great to see you here! ;-)
> 
> Yes, you're absolutely right.
> 
> ...


Woah, that's one serious charger! It's good to see it working so well!


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That is impressive. I am confused about the readings of the log shown on the screen, though. One line shows 


```
OUT: 674dA 393V
(which I thought might be the setting, which you say is bypassed for the test)

And what seem to be the actual readings:

M, 079, 410, 491

up to

M, 089, 410, 499
```
But in the first set of readings the "OUT" shows 661 to 674 dA, and voltage 402 to 404. And at the end of the test they drop to zero.

I'm not familiar with the format of the readings, and it would be helpful to show what they designate. I could probably dig into the code to find out, but it would be better if you could explain it for the video.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hm... yes i am using 30cm UTP off-site cable. Maybe this is so, but i got another charger working flawlessly with the same setup.
> One difference is the first charger is already in aluminum box versus the other which is setup on heatsink only...
> Other difference is first LCD is old one and second (with a glitch) is LCD SPE.
> 
> ...


just PCB ground is fine. perhaps alum box does help ;-)

we did have a build with 6-foot (!) LCD cable working fine but (1) cable was shielded, and (2) cable was connected to the back of the board (the side closer to the wall of the box) and exited the case through LCD window so it never passed next to any other components. 

V


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> That is impressive. I am confused about the readings of the log shown on the screen, though. One line shows
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Sure thing, Paul!

See our datasheet for CHAdeMO controller here: https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...Wo35OwWUbYmfKx3LBR67aY7ZZ0dnQfpFK-zqMzJ0/edit

a relevant summary:

* M,089,410,499,E is a command from controller to charger to output 89A until battery hits 410v. 499 is just a poor man's checksum (a simple C+V % 1000 calculation)

* OUT: 674dA 393V is actual readout by the controller. 67.4A, 393V

* there are also strings like 'M,D730,C665,V394,T050,O001,S395,E' - these are reports from the charger back to controller. Duty 0%, Current 66.5A, voltage 394V, heatsink at 50C, output charge 0.1AH, and checksum.

At the moment, controller measurements are just there for redundancy - the actual reporting back to the car is done using calibrated values reported by the charger. So far so good.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

CKidder said:


> Woah, that's one serious charger! It's good to see it working so well!


thx. the funny fact - we found out that it is very hard to really test 36kW CHAdeMO charger with an actual car - the output power is so high that the car starts ramping down current requests before we get into any thermal problems ;-)

we are now trying to get to 50kW on the same hardware with some tweaks. Should be able to post something tomorrow-ish


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> just PCB ground is fine. perhaps alum box does help ;-)
> 
> we did have a build with 6-foot (!) LCD cable working fine but (1) cable was shielded, and (2) cable was connected to the back of the board (the side closer to the wall of the box) and exited the case through LCD window so it never passed next to any other components.
> 
> V


Valery

I had an interesting discussion with a guy who made his own AC controller here in Slovenia. Yes, it was a little one sided debate , but i got some usefull tips out of it.
It seems that for the 600V IGBTs have to be opened hard for efficient work at high current. He said 10R G-E resistor wouldnt be good, creates too much lag. He uses 4R7 resistor with 300A IGBTs. Supposedly large IGBTs have much larger capacitance to drain sharply than TOs.
Also he says my HCPL 3120 (yours also?) 2A driver chip is a joke in the case of 600VDC input. He says he drives his 600V 300A IGBTs with 6A driver current and he doesnt have any problems with overheating junction at that power level. Whats more he uses the same 2W DCDCs and they work fine for a driver with 6A. PWM works at 16kHz. BUT control chip is a real STM32 .

Now my questions.
1. Do you know a drop in replacement for the driver with 4A or similar. I would be willing to try the theory.
2. I am preparing to change 10R resistors to 6R8. Do you think i could go further to 4R7? Where in the datasheet can you discern that?

tnx

Arber


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> this is enough. I have just sent you a refund for your boards. You can keep the control board you have. I will not tolerate your insults anymore. I wonder how effective your approach is with other people.



Ive never had this approach before but ive never had services this bad ... i dont want a refund ... without a proper working driver board my charger is as good as a brick ..... either refund everything and ill send you back your charger built as is or send me a working driver board ....

3 months ..... 3 months ive been waiting ... to many mistakes and incomplete documentation .... just aweful


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

2010Ranger said:


> Thank you Val...... I too have had enough of this rant and incivility


You obviously have no idea of the situation .... im in mexico at the moment installing a new electrical board for a new factory but trust me ill take the necessary time when i get back to write the full story ...

emw has misguided and misinformed about its 12 kw non pfc charger from the moment i got it ... wrong parts ... bad documentation even worse no documentation for the driver board ! ... i ordered complet boards .. they arrived wrongly built with missing parts after way to long .... i sent them back ... i have the tracking info saying they recieved them .... lost ..... after 1 month still no progress there answer ..... there lost .... what am i to do emails go unanswered nothing changes .... yes this might seem like im pissed and angry .... because i am !!! 

I want a working properly built driver board like i ordered 3 or 4 months ago i cant even tell anymoree how long ago ....


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

*Zeners and Miller Capacitance Upgrade*

Valery (and all), I have completed these upgrades and the charger is working great (it was working fine before, but I didn't want to roll the dice every time I plugged in - seeing as how my luck has not been the best). I included some pictures for reference. Clearance is a little tight, but nothing overly concerning. I used the values recommended earlier - 2.7k & 10nF.

I've never built a product of this power capacity. So I approached this project with caution and a bit of concern. However, I'm grateful for your help along with Paul and others contributing to this thread. And (as Tomofreno said), thanks for providing the kits up till now.

I can't say it better, so I'll agree with tomofreno - thanks and good luck! Please email or PM me if you ever need a demo/prototype tester 


tomofreno said:


> ...I sympathize with Robin and others who waited so long for orders, but like I said in the past, it is not surprising to see from a small start-up with very limited resources and so many irons in the fire. I think you could have made it a little easier on yourself with a more disciplined PDR and much less frequent and more controlled releases, but it would still be a big time sink fielding questions and packaging the kits. You get much better ROI selling completed product – and less frustration from customers. Good luck on your continuing work, and thanks for supporting the kits for so long!


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Valery a few V14 issues, the firmware is stock, the built as per v14 control, v13 driver, v13 power instructions.

1: The charger doesn't terminate. It did hit close to CV (it was 2v low vs measure with a Fluke) but it got down to 0.1A after charging at 14A output.

2: It hits the output current nicely, however the input current doesn't mean much, you have to change the settings and measure the results. Selecting 19A input on a 20A/240v circuit left the charger drawing 24-25A.

3: It's supposed to self limit on 120v to not blow a breaker, with the charger set to appropriate 240v values plugging it into 120v left the charger drawing 19A, it shouldn't draw more than 12A. (Did it draw 19A based on my 240v settings?)

4: During programming it correctly identifies 240v and 120v however during charging it always shows 120v as the input. With the exception of the situation where it didn't terminate, it showed 240v input when the output read 286v 0.1A.

5: I will be trying J1772 soon, should I expect it to draw way too much? Or will it set correctly based on the Pilot signal.
I assembled it using the v14 control board instructions, I didn't do the J1772 HACK as shown in the v13 instructions.


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

I second a couple of rwaudio's comments. For reference, I bought an assembled unit with V13 hardware and v12 software.

1: _The charger doesn't terminate._ Same thing for me. It continued way past .05C and has never shut off on its own.

4: _ During programming it correctly identifies 240v and 120v however during charging it always shows 120v as the input._ This is the same as on my charger.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

gregsh said:


> I second a couple of rwaudio's comments. For reference, I bought an assembled unit with V13 hardware and v12 software.
> 
> 1: _The charger doesn't terminate._ Same thing for me. It continued way past .05C and has never shut off on its own.
> 
> 4: _ During programming it correctly identifies 240v and 120v however during charging it always shows 120v as the input._ This is the same as on my charger.


Hi

I am dealing with this from V12! My charger doesnt even go to CV. It just throttles back duty when it reaches set voltage and waits for a minute and than takes duty slowly up. From 0.1A to cca 5A and then it throttles back... etc. 
I had to use my BMS to stop charger when all cells start balancing. Also i now use a separate input to slow charger to 2A (gradually) so the BMS can balance cells. 
See posts around 1718 if you are interested! I used up two remaining arduino ports, but i now see i could just use one port as an input and +5V to create loop. Whenever my BMS would report a balancing was triggered, relay would sever the loop and charger would slowly lower power.

A


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

rwaudio said:


> 3: It's supposed to self limit on 120v to not blow a breaker, with the charger set to appropriate 240v values plugging it into 120v left the charger drawing 19A, it shouldn't draw more than 12A. (Did it draw 19A based on my 240v settings?)


I had this problem - on initial startup, it ramped over 17A and would usually kick the breaker.

You can adjust it in the code around line 939 (see attached pic).


Actual input current is controlled through the pwr function in the code:

```
maxOutC=min(pwr*charger_efficiency*240/maxOutV, absMaxChargeCurrent)
```
Note the maxOutV parameter --- this indicates your pack voltage will also affect the input current. Under the drop110Power statement, I changed my parameter to 5. instead of 9. It automatically draws around 10A when plugged into 120V. You can calculate the approximate draw with a HV pack. Previously using the 9 parameter, with and upper limit of 296V, the charger would try draw 16.8A.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: Zeners and Miller Capacitance Upgrade*



Old.DSMer said:


> Valery (and all), I have completed these upgrades and the charger is working great (it was working fine before, but I didn't want to roll the dice every time I plugged in - seeing as how my luck has not been the best). I included some pictures for reference. Clearance is a little tight, but nothing overly concerning. I used the values recommended earlier - 2.7k & 10nF.
> 
> I've never built a product of this power capacity. So I approached this project with caution and a bit of concern. However, I'm grateful for your help along with Paul and others contributing to this thread. And (as Tomofreno said), thanks for providing the kits up till now.
> 
> I can't say it better, so I'll agree with tomofreno - thanks and good luck! Please email or PM me if you ever need a demo/prototype tester


Thanks Guys! I am glad I could help ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> Valery a few V14 issues, the firmware is stock, the built as per v14 control, v13 driver, v13 power instructions.
> 
> 1: The charger doesn't terminate. It did hit close to CV (it was 2v low vs measure with a Fluke) but it got down to 0.1A after charging at 14A output.
> 
> ...


thanks rwaudio for a detailed report!

1. Congratulations - you have found a bug in V14. Update posted to https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing (V14.4.zip). Thanks!

2. Input current is calculated, not measured. See response by Old.DSMer earlier for the location in code and exact formula. You will see that if your input voltage is lower from 240V, the charger will draw more than your setting. The right fix is to replace 240V with something closer to what you expect the input voltage to be when loaded (220?)

3. You are using V14 firmware, correct?

4. this is a known issue that does not affect any other aspect of operation. The reason for it is that during the initial sampling of input voltage, it is pure DC = peak of the AC wave. OTOH, during operation, it is haversine, with average voltage of 2 * peak voltage / pi(). That average voltage is low enough for the charger to think it sees 120V input. The proper way to handle is to show the value of the first sample only throughout the run of the charger

5. J1772 will be affected by the same issues as #2 above. Fixing #2 (via resetting 240V to something more realistic for your settings) will address this concern, as well. 

Hope this helps. 

Thx. 

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> I had an interesting discussion with a guy who made his own AC controller here in Slovenia. Yes, it was a little one sided debate , but i got some usefull tips out of it.
> It seems that for the 600V IGBTs have to be opened hard for efficient work at high current. He said 10R G-E resistor wouldnt be good, creates too much lag. He uses 4R7 resistor with 300A IGBTs. Supposedly large IGBTs have much larger capacitance to drain sharply than TOs.
> ...


Thanks Arber. 

most datasheets for 600V 100-200A devices suggest 5-10R as gate resistors. We keep on the conservative side to avoid any potential issues with overvoltage spikes. You can definitely run 4R7 with our layout (or other good layout with good film caps immediately next to IGBTs, parallel power planes, etc). You will have to be more careful as you approach voltage limit of IGBTs, though. Since a few people reprogram our units to run 450VDC PFC rail, we are staying on the conservative side. 

higher current devices do require lower Rg to switch more efficiently. In our 25kW units, we use Rg=4R0 for turn-off, and 2R0 for turn-on. Unfortunately, there is no isolated driver that can drive these low Rgs. So we have built our own NPN-PNP driver from a couple of complementary 20A transistors (MJF44H11GOS-ND and MJF45H11GOS-ND). They are driven by 3120 chip through a 10R resistor to their bases. Works pretty well (from same 2W DC-DC, yes).


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Thanks Arber.
> 
> most datasheets for 600V 100-200A devices suggest 5-10R as gate resistors. We keep on the conservative side to avoid any potential issues with overvoltage spikes. You can definitely run 4R7 with our layout (or other good layout with good film caps immediately next to IGBTs, parallel power planes, etc). You will have to be more careful as you approach voltage limit of IGBTs, though. Since a few people reprogram our units to run 450VDC PFC rail, we are staying on the conservative side.
> 
> higher current devices do require lower Rg to switch more efficiently. In our 25kW units, we use Rg=4R0 for turn-off, and 2R0 for turn-on. Unfortunately, there is no isolated driver that can drive these low Rgs. So we have built our own NPN-PNP driver from a couple of complementary 20A transistors (MJF44H11GOS-ND and MJF45H11GOS-ND). They are driven by 3120 chip through a 10R resistor to their bases. Works pretty well (from same 2W DC-DC, yes).


Hah! I new there has to be a trade secret! Thanks for sharing. Seriously.
For now i will be switching to 6R8/4R7 resistor to check my charger operation at 600VDC. I also use a large 1uF snubber capright on the pads of IGBT. It should keep transients out.
First I will run this at 230VAC input 50A output as before, since i know dissipation here. I will observe heating. Then i will go for 600V again.

If my IGBT doesnt make it i will try 2 stage BUCK. First 600VDC to 380VDC and then to whichever voltage we want. I will make my own driver board with HCPL J312 and 555 chip and BJT transistor pair to control PWM. I could start it with Arduino pin 11 so i will have some control over it.
Do you think i could use Pin 11 as PWM pin at 20kHz (or 16kHz) directly? It would be fixed PWM with soft start (10s ramping) to make precharge of middle caps...

tnx

A


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Old.DSMer said:


> I had this problem - on initial startup, it ramped over 17A and would usually kick the breaker.
> 
> You can adjust it in the code around line 939 (see attached pic).
> 
> ...





valerun said:


> thanks rwaudio for a detailed report!
> 
> 1. Congratulations - you have found a bug in V14. Update posted to https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing (V14.4.zip). Thanks!
> 
> ...


Thanks guys (Yes I'm using the V14 Firmware), I'll try the new firmware with the suggested tweaks and see how things go. I had assumed the input current was measured since the old version had current shunt resistors after the rectifier.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Old.DSMer said:


> I had this problem - on initial startup, it ramped over 17A and would usually kick the breaker.
> 
> You can adjust it in the code around line 939 (see attached pic).
> 
> ...


Here's to hoping!
For reference it's line 1097 in the V14.4 firmware if anyone else needs to change it.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valerun :
cracker - you want us to send you a refund for your boards, as well? You got them at cost of components. We built them and sent them to you. You received them but wanted the headers be moved to the opposite side. They got lost in the mail on the way back to us. Post office and our mailbox company are still 'investigating'. Sorry we did not meet your expectations.





crackerjackz said:


> I dont want a refund on the parts i want a working charger .... i didnt ask to have the pins moved side for pleasure its a must for a non pfc build .... THE BOARD WAS WRONGLY BuilT .... i didnt ask for cost price you screwed up ... dont turn this on me ... you screwed up now fix it by sending me a proper working non pfc driver board and new igbt like i paid for 3 months ago ...


What i want is what i paid for in a NORMAL timely manner without the wrong parts, bad communication ive come to expect from emw ....  sad because i had such high hopes .... 

ive said it often .... valery your a genius but you suck at directions and even worse customer service :s .... please fix your wrongs so i can finish my charger .... thank you ....


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Valerun :
> cracker - you want us to send you a refund for your boards, as well? You got them at cost of components. We built them and sent them to you. You received them but wanted the headers be moved to the opposite side. They got lost in the mail on the way back to us. Post office and our mailbox company are still 'investigating'. Sorry we did not meet your expectations.
> 
> What i want is what i paid for in a NORMAL timely manner without the wrong parts, bad communication ive come to expect from emw ....  sad because i had such high hopes ....
> ...


Stop your whining! I mean if you want your charger built than ask nicely and pay for the services. 

I understand sometimes things happen. I burned two IGBTs totaly unneccesary and i know it. So i bit the apple and bought another one - and driver, and DCDC. I recently resoldered opto voltage sensor and burned it... Sacrifice of development... But you it seems dont want the charger but constantly complaining for help. If you are unable to build the charger you should admit yourself and move on, have someone build it for you or something. I mean i charged at least 25000Km in the time you tried to build yours, come on...
EDIT: If you ave some PCB drawing skils you can make your own driver board, NonPFC is very simple now at V13. For control board i dont know, but still think positive... 

I am not lauging at you. I allready knew that i was financing Valerys development when i bought NonPFC charger, but i still bought and built two more for my friends. They work and good i might add. 

Try to take this as a hobby - hobby is usually big expenditure of money... and dont slander, you are just wasting your brain power.

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I should probably stay out of this except to offer technical support and ideas for troubleshooting and future design. And my offer to look at and diagnose a dysfunctional set of boards still stands, but I can't make any guarantees, and I don't have any need for a charger at this time, so I cannot justify purchasing a complete kit or even bare PCBs. I do have some experience writing detailed assembly and testing procedures for similar assemblies, and I might be able to simplify and clarify some things. 

For a build such as this, I think the savings of buying a kit should be used to purchase proper test equipment such as a true-RMS multimeter and a good oscilloscope, as well as other useful items such as a power supply and load bank. The cost of a finished and tested charger includes these costs as well as time and expertise on the part of the vendor, as well as probably a very narrow margin of profit that gets blown every time there is a major problem that needs to be corrected. 

I know that Valery is overloaded with his R&D, production, and customer support, and the more units in the field, the greater the need for attention. I have a similar situation with products I sell, but I don't sell kits, and the complete PCB assemblies cost less than $100 each, so I can offer a flat rate of $100 for repair.

Building a kit of this type, involving many large, expensive components, as well as dangerous voltages and current, requires a great deal of skill as well as proper equipment and knowledge of basic testing and troubleshooting techniques. The suggestions I have made are really quite basic and very often it appears that those who have problems do not have the experience and know-how to make proper measurements and interpret them. Without that level of expertise, a DIY build of this magnitude is ill-advised, and Valery has made the right decision by discontinuing the kits. However, perhaps he could supply the PCBs and selected hard-to-find or special parts. But the detailed instructions are difficult to maintain, and someone with reasonable skills should be able to assemble and test these boards from the schematic.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I should probably stay out of this except to offer technical support and ideas for troubleshooting and future design. And my offer to look at and diagnose a dysfunctional set of boards still stands, but I can't make any guarantees, and I don't have any need for a charger at this time, so I cannot justify purchasing a complete kit or even bare PCBs. I do have some experience writing detailed assembly and testing procedures for similar assemblies, and I might be able to simplify and clarify some things.
> 
> For a build such as this, I think the savings of buying a kit should be used to purchase proper test equipment such as a true-RMS multimeter and a good oscilloscope, as well as other useful items such as a power supply and load bank. The cost of a finished and tested charger includes these costs as well as time and expertise on the part of the vendor, as well as probably a very narrow margin of profit that gets blown every time there is a major problem that needs to be corrected.
> 
> ...


thanks Paul - you had great suggestions. A few of your design improvements are in the manuals now. https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...WUuQaBlZjY0Bpl32SmvJy8rTZgg2p0Nn8MAndeE/edit#, synced to BOM in the same folder https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing.

changes made to v15 board files (to be fabricated later)

I like to be able to continue to offer part kits but we will be extremely clear that there should be very limited support expectations. We will also qualify the kit buyers by asking a set of specific questions designed to test people's skills. We have been doing this lately with our JuiceBox kits and it seems to be working. 

I just really want to get people an opportunity to learn power electronics and build their own high-power chargers. 

A few years back, I have learned from people like myself who were willing to give out their designs and expertise. I feel like I am in a relatively unusual position to be free to share my designs as I wish and at the same time having resources to push R&D - usually all these designs get locked up in corporate walls due to NDA and all other corporate crap. I wanted to do something different. 

Same motivation for our JuiceBox EVSE. 

Same for the upcoming CHAdeMO charger - don't remember if I posted this video before or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUILFJc9gY&list=UU2eyEqWJ9muVsTaPiCobO_A - CHAdeMO home charger - now running at 44kW!!


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> thanks Paul - you had great suggestions. A few of your design improvements are in the manuals now. https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...WUuQaBlZjY0Bpl32SmvJy8rTZgg2p0Nn8MAndeE/edit#, synced to BOM in the same folder https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing.
> 
> changes made to v15 board files (to be fabricated later)
> 
> ...




OooooooooH I want one of the CHAdeMO chargers.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

The expertise I have ... It's the time I don't have. ... 3 kids ... 30 horses and a full time job as an electrician will do that. : s ... 


I built the charger ... Never got the driver board instructions. ... Schematics are all for the Pfc version. ... When the driver boards came out there was a whole bunch of info missing basically the version 13 driver boards were being sold and no instructions or schematics had even been released ( which in my mind is inacceptable ). in the first steps of building I even had issues and had sent multiple emails concerning an issue with my output diode being to big to fit under the boards ... after finally having taken a bunch of pictures and 2 more emails I was told I didn't get the right one sent with my kit ... After blowing two igbts and Dc to. Dc convertes while testing I verified with an oscilloscope that my power boards were ok ... having confirmed the proper functioning of the power boards I then ordered a built control board and driver board considering I didn't have time to waste on missing instructions ... The boards arrived 1 month later with no igbt like I ordered ... Even worse the driver board was wrongly built ... Components on one side and connectors on the other. ... For a non Pfc unit everything must be on the same side its impossible to fit or else this is one of the good informations in the instructions which I guarantee are true ... I sent it back to get repaired with valerys approuval that it wasn't a problem since they made a mistake and it would be fixed rapidly ... I got the tracking saying it arrived but valery says it's lost in mail or at the place of arrival which for some reason emw doesn't get there mail sent directly to them ??? ... I sent proof of tracking and a picture of my 20 $ receipt to send it with tracking info... 3 months later I am we're I am now no parts, no clue were anything is and down 250 used ... On a side note the driver board and control board I received had discrepancies to valerys latest instructions for building which I thought was amusing and not normal ... my guess is emw gets there non pfc units working yes but doesn't keep there instructions or ways of building up to date which is why people with non pfc kits have so many issues when building theres ... 

all this to say ... as a paying customer who was very patient in the beginning and very proud to build his own charger and help emw grow bigger in the same process ... I need my parts which I paid for .. which are a working v.13 driver board for a non pfc 12 kilowatt charger . and a new igbt for that same charger ... I was VERY patient ... I sent MULTIPLE emails to know whats going on every week or so ... many of the last ones especially after my parts for repair were lost went completly unanswered ... hense why I came to this board to bitch ! ... its the only place that seems to get emws attention ... which isn't normal ! ...


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Nice to see you plan to continue offering kits. I purchased a kit as much or more to force myself to learn some power electronics and school myself on arduino as to obtain a high power charger for relatively low cost. I think this is the attitude you must have to be satisfied and happy with assembling one of these kits. A problem to me was an opportunity to learn. 


I’ll say it again though, do yourself and users a favor and pick the most mature, well-documented and trouble-free version as verified by users and offer ONLY that as a kit. Don’t offer your latest and greatest, but immature -even if you offer the same version for years. That version will become very well known due to people posting issues and answers on it. I’m still running v11 firmware. It is working well because I have fussed with the firmware to fix some bugs and add things I wanted. This knowledge, and similar from others (well at least some, most seem to come here just to take, not give in return) would be posted here and available to present builders if the kits had stayed with this version. I know it would have prevented you from adding some features but…too bad, it would have avoided quite a bit of frustration. 


The more versions in the field the more difficulty supporting them, and with a small staff it is an impossible task. When you feel it is time to transition to a new version, offer it to some more knowledgeable people at a significantly reduced cost in return for careful documentation of bugs/issues. Someone like Paul would be a good candidate. Only release it after a several iterations like this, reducing the competency of the builder a bit each time. And when you do introduce it, stop offering the older version, just archive the documentation on it so it is available  to those with existing chargers. This will allow you to focus on supporting only one version after a short overlap completing support of last builds of the older one. And set customer expectations upfront. Tell them what to expect and what not to expect.


To those considering a kit:
The people at EMW are mainly interesting in development, and are continually branching out to new products. Most of their time and effort is directed there, with little left for support. They offer the kits to give those with the above attitude and sufficient electronics background the opportunity to learn and obtain a high power charger at lower cost, and are willing to give some support such as answering questions. I don’t think people should expect them to do more than that simply because it is not a priority to them. They are smart guys who enjoy figuring out new things, not fixing someone else’s mess, which is a big time sink and not very satisfying to them. That’s just the way it is. EMW is not like the old Radio Shack or Heathkit. Their main purpose is not to sell kits. They are a bunch of people having fun developing stuff, who spin off some kits on the side to help folks with the right attitude and knowledge. Don’t expect trouble-free, easy to assemble kits from them. And one other thing, don't bite the hand that feeds you.


Sorry for so much preaching, but I lived this for many years as an engineering manager and in the early years felt the pain of having immature products in the field. I learned.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> Nice to see you plan to continue offering kits. I purchased a kit as much or more to force myself to learn some power electronics and school myself on arduino as to obtain a high power charger for relatively low cost. I think this is the attitude you must have to be satisfied and happy with assembling one of these kits. A problem to me was an opportunity to learn.
> 
> 
> I’ll say it again though, do yourself and users a favor and pick the most mature, well-documented and trouble-free version as verified by users and offer ONLY that as a kit. Don’t offer your latest and greatest, but immature -even if you offer the same version for years. That version will become very well known due to people posting issues and answers on it. I’m still running v11 firmware. It is working well because I have fussed with the firmware to fix some bugs and add things I wanted. This knowledge, and similar from others (well at least some, most seem to come here just to take, not give in return) would be posted here and available to present builders if the kits had stayed with this version. I know it would have prevented you from adding some features but…too bad, it would have avoided quite a bit of frustration.
> ...


I agree with most of what you said, it's good advice both for EMW and potential EMW customers. I have an electronics background, I design small signal amplifiers and have designed small smps for use in those amplifiers. EMW chargers are honestly my first high power project ever (this is my 3rd EMW charger, spread over many years) the problem is the documentation on release. I ordered the most recent kit mid June, it didn't ship till early July and I had it mid July. The documentation wasn't released until August 31st. I could have had the charger working with a schematic, but I had nothing. No change list vs the last version, no BOM, no direction, no nothing. This is what is very frustrating, I would have much preferred a V13 charger.

I'm not sure who else is finishing up a V14 charger, however the new firmware that Valery posted may not have fixed the termination issue, I have to run another cycle, however my charger never terminated, it never even stopped at the CV voltage it just kept going. It's a good thing I was around to watch it.

I'm not sure if I re calibrated this time after updating the firmware. I would hope that can't be a cause of a runaway charger. I will reload the firmware, the 110v #define was commented out in the stock release of the code so it appears there was no hope of 110v lower power charging working properly, then re calibrate, and charge. Either way there is something very wrong, I was hoping that this version wouldn't require the same level of attention and tweaking the code to make the basics work. It's a good thing I love EV's...


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

rwaudio said:


> ...the problem is the documentation on release. I ordered the most recent kit mid June, it didn't ship till early July and I had it mid July. The documentation wasn't released until August 31st. I could have had the charger working with a schematic, but I had nothing. No change list vs the last version, no BOM, no direction, no nothing. This is what is very frustrating, I would have much preferred a V13 charger.


 I think that is one of the main problems. Valery and others certainly have put a lot of work into documentation, including the videos, and for no ROI considering their time. I thought the documents for the PFC V12 were in pretty good shape after he hired a new person to do build verifications and correct/augment documentation. Together with the videos there was a lot of detailed information. You had to use both though to not miss some of the details. But not long after that was in place they started shipping new versions. I think it would have been better to just have kept refining the V12 documents – things like making sure the close up photos of boards are all V12, not some of earlier versions. But that is easy for me to say. I’m sure they were excited about new improvements and wanted to show their latest and greatest. You just create more problems releasing it without thoroughly checked documentation though. You tend to forget how puzzling it is to people in the field who know nothing about it when you have been living and breathing it for months. And it makes it more difficult for people to share learning. More than once I looked at a post and thought, well I don’t know anything about that version of hardware or firmware. I thought the Google Docs was a good move in this direction since kit builders could document issues. Problem is, most of the kit builders don’t want to be bothered with documenting either.


With multiple versions in the field, the instructions were more confusing since they contained directions for several versions (must have been quite taxing for Valery to keep track of all those details when he is off working on Juicebox, or Chademo, or…). I would limit them to one for clarity.
Documentation, error checking, build verifying…are boring and tedious. I don’t think you are going to get the EMW guys to spend much more time than they already have on it, and myself I think it is better for them to spend their time developing. So to minimize the required time, stick to one version for a long time. Long enough to have some kit builders who are willing do build verifys on the next version and audit/correct the documentation - after a summer intern has done the same in-house like they did with V12. And before you do this, wait and bundle a number of changes together for the next version so that the number of versions is much more limited.


Hopefully Valery finds some of these comments useful. They have already done a number of the things I’ve mentioned to varying degrees. I’m sure there are ways to improve things that I have overlooked. It is easy to forget when you are frustrated by missing parts, mistakes in the documentation, missing documentation…, but Valery the crew have done a lot. I admire their enthusiasm.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

For the products I design, I consider the schematic to be the controlling document, and I take great pains to make sure every component has a complete set of attributes that include manufacturer and vendor part numbers and even approximate cost. I have a VBA script that produces a comma-delineated (CSV) file that can be imported into Excel or Open Office, and it becomes a spreadsheet with all pertinent information including total cost. 

I have been frustrated with Valery's schematics which can be confusing and possibly inaccurate. They are produced using a free schematic capture program that is linked to the proprietary and free ExpressPCB layout software. I can understand the need to control costs, but since the schematic and PCB are of profound importance to a professional product, I think it would be a wise investment to use more professional software. 

I have been using Mentor Graphics PADS design suite almost since it was first offered on 5-1/4" MSDOS floppy disks, and I also had purchased another design suite (Project PCB) for over $1000 around 1989, and then top of the line schematic design software (Futurenet DASH5), which I think was close to $2000. I have spent $500/year on the PADS software maintenance and updated versions. I have discontinued maintenance and I don't need the advanced features of newer versions, but I appreciate the capabilities of the software which enforces various design constraints such as track width and spacing, and it has a very powerful autorouter which saves a lot of time for complex boards. It has design rule checking (DRC) which detects clearance and connectivity issues. 

The EMW boards seem to be relatively simple but IMHO they could be made better and the labeling clearer. As to the actual "hands-on" quality I can't say, having never had any of the boards in my hands, but I know that some of the newer boards are now being made by a high-quality PCB house that I have used for a long time (www.eiconnect.com).


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have just now looked at a few of the assembly videos, and have some suggestions. Some may already be implemented, or there may be reasons for why you have done things in a certain way. Just be aware that these _might_ be helpful.

1. I'm not sure if the pads for the connection of the capacitors to the power and ground planes have thermal reliefs, but they should, and it will make soldering easier and better.

2. I would suggest a temperature controlled soldering station with about 40W element and an appropriate size tip.

3. Unless you supply the solder, it would be good to advise the type and size.

4. After soldering, the boards should be cleaned with alcohol and a stiff horsehair brush, and followed by scrubbing with hot water and detergent, then a clear water wash, and finally drying with hot air.

5. It appears that some of the ICs are mounted on white styrofoam. They should be kept in black conductive foam, or aluminum foil, or other static protective means. Handling and soldering precautions also should be used.

6. It looks like you are using solid wire for the connectors. Stranded may be better. The video does not show the crimping technique very clearly, and it is important to use the correct tool properly. Also I had suggested using wire colors matching pin positions using the resistor codes, brown for 1, red for 2, ... and black for 10. Like some ribbon cable.

7. It can be helpful to use a square pad for pin 1 of all connectors and IC sockets.

8. For the power board it may be best to supply the copper washers, and it may be best for them to be plated with silver or nickel, or cleaned with Scotch-Brite and protected from corrosion with grease or NoAlOx. These measures are commonly used for bus bars carrying thousands of amps, and it's surprising how much resistance a connection can have when the surfaces are oxidized.

9. Rather than clipping component leads that are long enough to touch other circuit elements such as the IGBT terminals, I would recommend using a good flush cutter and then go over each soldered connection with another application of solder (or just flux and touch with the iron), so that you can run your finger over the bottom of the board and feel any sharp edges. Each connection should be a smooth "bubble" of solder. And this procedure also double checks for possible missed solder joints.

10. Make sure the silicone caulk is electrical grade.

11. It looks like you have used spacers instead of screws for several of the IGBT connections. I didn't see where that was explained, but maybe I missed it.

12. Why does the charger take so long to ramp down the duty cycle when CV point is reached?

I know you are no longer offering kits, but some of these suggestions may help those that do, or are having problems. The videos are very good, and I now understand more about the design and construction. Seems to be a very nice unit.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I agree with most of what you said, it's good advice both for EMW and potential EMW customers. I have an electronics background, I design small signal amplifiers and have designed small smps for use in those amplifiers. EMW chargers are honestly my first high power project ever (this is my 3rd EMW charger, spread over many years) the problem is the documentation on release. I ordered the most recent kit mid June, it didn't ship till early July and I had it mid July. The documentation wasn't released until August 31st. I could have had the charger working with a schematic, but I had nothing. No change list vs the last version, no BOM, no direction, no nothing. This is what is very frustrating, I would have much preferred a V13 charger.
> 
> I'm not sure who else is finishing up a V14 charger, however the new firmware that Valery posted may not have fixed the termination issue, I have to run another cycle, however my charger never terminated, it never even stopped at the CV voltage it just kept going. It's a good thing I was around to watch it.
> 
> I'm not sure if I re calibrated this time after updating the firmware. I would hope that can't be a cause of a runaway charger. I will reload the firmware, the 110v #define was commented out in the stock release of the code so it appears there was no hope of 110v lower power charging working properly, then re calibrate, and charge. Either way there is something very wrong, I was hoping that this version wouldn't require the same level of attention and tweaking the code to make the basics work. It's a good thing I love EV's...


charger code has 2 levels of protection against runaway. one is in the normal charging loop - around line 1325 (that part ramps down the current as the charger hits CV), and another one in the fast pid loop - around line 746 (that shuts off the PWM altogether if the voltage exceeds CV by 5%). 

looking at the code, looks like I have effectively disabled the first one by one of the changes between V14_3 and V14_4. I have now fixed that and reposted V14_4 to https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing - please try that. 

The critical change is [around line 1325] from
-----------
if(outV > maxOutV) {
maxOutC1-=Cstep;
if(maxOutC1<0) maxOutC1=0;
} 
----------
to
----------
if(outV > maxOutV) {
maxOutC-=Cstep;
if(maxOutC<0) maxOutC=0;
} 
----------

Please let me know how it works out. 

Thanks,
V


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

The expertise I have ... It's the time I don't have. ... 3 kids ... 30 horses and a full time job as an electrician will do that. : s ... 





I built the charger ... Never got the driver board instructions. ... Schematics are all for the Pfc version. ... When the driver boards came out there was a whole bunch of info missing basically the version 13 driver boards were being sold and no instructions or schematics had even been released ( which in my mind is inacceptable ). in the first steps of building I even had issues and had sent multiple emails concerning an issue with my output diode being to big to fit under the boards ... after finally having taken a bunch of pictures and 2 more emails I was told I didn't get the right one sent with my kit ... After blowing two igbts and Dc to. Dc convertes while testing I verified with an oscilloscope that my power boards were ok ... having confirmed the proper functioning of the power boards I then ordered a built control board and driver board considering I didn't have time to waste on missing instructions ... The boards arrived 1 month later with no igbt like I ordered ... Even worse the driver board was wrongly built ... Components on one side and connectors on the other. ... For a non Pfc unit everything must be on the same side its impossible to fit or else this is one of the good informations in the instructions which I guarantee are true ... I sent it back to get repaired with valerys approuval that it wasn't a problem since they made a mistake and it would be fixed rapidly ... I got the tracking saying it arrived but valery says it's lost in mail or at the place of arrival which for some reason emw doesn't get there mail sent directly to them ??? ... I sent proof of tracking and a picture of my 20 $ receipt to send it with tracking info... 3 months later I am we're I am now no parts, no clue were anything is and down 250 used ... On a side note the driver board and control board I received had discrepancies to valerys latest instructions for building which I thought was amusing and not normal ... my guess is emw gets there non pfc units working yes but doesn't keep there instructions or ways of building up to date which is why people with non pfc kits have so many issues when building theres ... 



all this to say ... as a paying customer who was very patient in the beginning and very proud to build his own charger and help emw grow bigger in the same process ... I need my parts which I paid for .. which are a working v.13 driver board for a non pfc 12 kilowatt charger . and a new igbt for that same charger ... I was VERY patient ... I sent MULTIPLE emails to know whats going on every week or so ... many of the last ones especially after my parts for repair were lost went completly unanswered ... hense why I came to this board to bitch ! ... its the only place that seems to get emws attention ... which isn't normal ! ..


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Since i spent power boards Valery sent me for two chargers i replicated and built very small power PCB for TO247 transistor and diodes. All connections for driver were the same as on V12 schematics. 
When i connected the driver and control boards to test, charger calibration was good until after shorting output. Then charger said "confirm 42 cell output" and when i did that i got "no battery or reverse connection"!!! 

1. I checked output diode connection and was good. 
2. I checked output cables Vout, Vbop and they showed correct voltage against negative cable.
3. I checked sensor lines on driver PCB and on control PCB - all checked OK
4. I checked 12V and 5V power supply on driver and control PCB - OK
5. I even connected 12V battery to control board under power and LCD showed voltage correctly!

It then dawned on me! In the rush to complete the powerPCB i forgot to connect the power board to driver negative reference! The lone terminal to the left of driverPCB is not there only to support driverPCB but to give reference for voltage measurement. You cant see that just from the schematic, its a designer solution. So you see what i have been dealing with trough this week ...
I guess i wrote my own building notes as well as schematics to be able to repeatedly build V12 with different version driver boards... 

Valery your charger is gaining popularity here, but because of the lack of single phase power (16A only) we cannot benefit from the large design. I can draw max 50A from the half bridge 3phase setup, anything more will trip fuses.
So i decided to build smaller, more cost effective version with TO247 IGBT and diodes that will be limited to 30A current. Something in the range of 3,6kW we can draw from single phase... Also for 30A inductor can be smaller and PWM can run at 35kHz because smaller IGBTs have less switching loss. 

Valery keep up developing, but i suggest not to discontinue your previous designs (NonPFC), but just freeze design so everyone can build i.e. V12 with PC817/HCPL7520 sense driver board.

If you agree I can try and prepare exact assembly manual for NonPFC built with positioning all elements and mounting them. Also separate test/troubleshooting manual. With your approval of course. 

A


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> charger code has 2 levels of protection against runaway. one is in the normal charging loop - around line 1325 (that part ramps down the current as the charger hits CV), and another one in the fast pid loop - around line 746 (that shuts off the PWM altogether if the voltage exceeds CV by 5%).
> 
> looking at the code, looks like I have effectively disabled the first one by one of the changes between V14_3 and V14_4. I have now fixed that and reposted V14_4 to https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing - please try that.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the quick response to this Valery, I wasn't ready to completely blame the code yet. I'll give it a try and confirm if it works or not.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery i have a problem...
In your development did you see a duty frozen at cca 7.8% and current at 0A?
I get this after a flawless calibration and normal start. I set current at 1A input and 1A output. Duty is at 7.8% and never rises. Could this be the driver or comparator? Or maybe PWM transistor is broken?

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery i have a problem...
> In your development did you see a duty frozen at cca 7.8% and current at 0A?
> I get this after a flawless calibration and normal start. I set current at 1A input and 1A output. Duty is at 7.8% and never rises. Could this be the driver or comparator? Or maybe PWM transistor is broken?
> 
> ...


haven't seen that. not sure what it could be but 1A output could be challenging to regulate - depending on your current sensor resolution. What is the current sensor you are using?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Since i spent power boards Valery sent me for two chargers i replicated and built very small power PCB for TO247 transistor and diodes. All connections for driver were the same as on V12 schematics.
> When i connected the driver and control boards to test, charger calibration was good until after shorting output. Then charger said "confirm 42 cell output" and when i did that i got "no battery or reverse connection"!!!
> 
> 1. I checked output diode connection and was good.
> ...


Arber - sure thing - it would be awesome to have an experienced builder to expand on this and provide build references!

we have tested our non-PFC version (branded as a QuickCharge-25000 LV on our site) on a 3-phase 400V source and are getting pretty good results. This is the unit used in our 50kW CHAdeMO demo video I posted a few posts above.

So non-PFC is not dead, we just moved it to 3-phase applications only, where it's much less disruptive to not have full power correction. 

direct link here: http://emotorwerks.com/products/onl...lv-a-25kw-charger-for-lower-voltage-batteries

this page explains overall product portfolio - http://emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics. ALL these products run the same v14_4 charger code - just #define switches are different 

v


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> haven't seen that. not sure what it could be but 1A output could be challenging to regulate - depending on your current sensor resolution. What is the current sensor you are using?


DOH!
I changed LM211 chip and still nothing. BUT when i moved LCD around the duty kept moving some
I checked PWM with no load. Sure nice square wave all raound...
I put the battery back, but this time i kept scope hooked to E-G terminals. I got nice square graph at first, but it soon became garbled. Also i started to hear inductor hissing. It was heating much for the measly 2A it was putting out. Hm i am using T300-26D (yelow with white side) 55 loops.

My G E leads are 3cm long on opposite sides of the PCB. Do you think this could throw off PWM?

I am using ACS75 L,CB-100U current sensor as i dont want to change the code much.
Last time I was charging at 4A and inductor was hissing and heating up, also LCD was locked and buttons were very sluggish to respond, like 5s for effect.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> DOH!
> I changed LM211 chip and still nothing. BUT when i moved LCD around the duty kept moving some
> I checked PWM with no load. Sure nice square wave all raound...
> I put the battery back, but this time i kept scope hooked to E-G terminals. I got nice square graph at first, but it soon became garbled. Also i started to hear inductor hissing. It was heating much for the measly 2A it was putting out. Hm i am using T300-26D (yelow with white side) 55 loops.
> ...



sounds like a problem is using high-current sensor with low current output. 

Three issues from this:

1. It's very hard for the charger to regulate output. 1A on a 100A sensor is just 40mV on the output, or 8 LSB on the 10-bit ADC. So at best the regulation will be in 0.125A steps, in reality one never gets true 10-bit precision from a 10-bit ADC, especially given that the output current always has some ripple

2. It is quite hard on hardware current limiting circuitry. With 1A output, the hardware limit is likely set at 1.6A via PWM from pin 10 of the Arduino through RC and into LM211. That reference is just 24mV higher than the 1A sensor output. Any amount of noise into those circuits and your current limiter is going to turn into erratic PWM cutoffs

3. Unless you _dramatically_ increase inductance, 1A will definitely make your inductor run in discontinuous mode. Which means that the current is delivered in short spikes of high current, followed by a 0A period for the rest of the cycle. This makes it much harder still on the current limiting circuitry (and somewhat harder for the current measurement circuit). 

In the stock 12kW charger, the inductors are designed to give you ~50% ripple factor at full load (190V over 130uH at worst-case 25uS (50%) duty gives you 35A ripple). This provides a nice DC bias current and a nice manageable sawtooth around it. 100A sensor looking at 70A output with 50% ripple means that it sees current zigzag from 52A to 88A in one cycle - which is very nicely sitting relative to the max measurable current rating, allowing use of full ADC dynamic range. Easy to average and easy to compare to current reference.

Broader point is that while a lot of people may have a set of [perfectly valid] 10 improvement ideas for the design, the fact is that vast majority of what's in the design is there for a reason. A good number of those things were suggested by people on this forum but usually only ~10-20% of suggestions really make sense. Just putting this into perspective ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> For the products I design, I consider the schematic to be the controlling document, and I take great pains to make sure every component has a complete set of attributes that include manufacturer and vendor part numbers and even approximate cost. I have a VBA script that produces a comma-delineated (CSV) file that can be imported into Excel or Open Office, and it becomes a spreadsheet with all pertinent information including total cost.
> 
> I have been frustrated with Valery's schematics which can be confusing and possibly inaccurate. They are produced using a free schematic capture program that is linked to the proprietary and free ExpressPCB layout software. I can understand the need to control costs, but since the schematic and PCB are of profound importance to a professional product, I think it would be a wise investment to use more professional software.
> 
> ...


I believe PADS is now starting around $5,000 for commercial use...

We now are moving to Diptrace which is a nice midrange (prosumer? ;-) product with full capabilities including autorouting etc. The schematics for V14 at https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing are made with that. Porting these schematics from Express PCB and updating the manual to V14 cost us ~$5,000 in hired resources. 

Just so you guys have a sense of perspective, $5,000 is about equal to amount of profit we make from ~25 charger kits...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> 1. I'm not sure if the pads for the connection of the capacitors to the power and ground planes have thermal reliefs, but they should, and it will make soldering easier and better.


this is intentional. Ripple current into / from those caps is on the order of 10A per pad. Thermal relief pads could very well just blow up at that level of current



PStechPaul said:


> 2. I would suggest a temperature controlled soldering station with about 40W element and an appropriate size tip.


yes. we use hakko fx-888d - very nice but not exactly cheap



PStechPaul said:


> 3. Unless you supply the solder, it would be good to advise the type and size.


right. leaded is best but obviously not the safest (health-wise). similar to many other things in life ;-) 



PStechPaul said:


> 4. After soldering, the boards should be cleaned with alcohol and a stiff horsehair brush, and followed by scrubbing with hot water and detergent, then a clear water wash, and finally drying with hot air.


would be nice, yes



PStechPaul said:


> 5. It appears that some of the ICs are mounted on white styrofoam. They should be kept in black conductive foam, or aluminum foil, or other static protective means. Handling and soldering precautions also should be used.


good points



PStechPaul said:


> 6. It looks like you are using solid wire for the connectors. Stranded may be better. The video does not show the crimping technique very clearly, and it is important to use the correct tool properly. Also I had suggested using wire colors matching pin positions using the resistor codes, brown for 1, red for 2, ... and black for 10. Like some ribbon cable.


we are using stranded pre-crimped Pololu wires for in-house builds. These same wires and housings are also available as part of our hardware and wiring bundle for SmartCharge-12000



PStechPaul said:


> 7. It can be helpful to use a square pad for pin 1 of all connectors and IC sockets.


implemented in V15 boards - thanks!



PStechPaul said:


> 8. For the power board it may be best to supply the copper washers, and it may be best for them to be plated with silver or nickel, or cleaned with Scotch-Brite and protected from corrosion with grease or NoAlOx. These measures are commonly used for bus bars carrying thousands of amps, and it's surprising how much resistance a connection can have when the surfaces are oxidized.


thanks - I will research this. Any sources for ready-made hardware like this?



PStechPaul said:


> 9. Rather than clipping component leads that are long enough to touch other circuit elements such as the IGBT terminals, I would recommend using a good flush cutter and then go over each soldered connection with another application of solder (or just flux and touch with the iron), so that you can run your finger over the bottom of the board and feel any sharp edges. Each connection should be a smooth "bubble" of solder. And this procedure also double checks for possible missed solder joints.


added this to manual!



PStechPaul said:


> 10. Make sure the silicone caulk is electrical grade.


yes.



PStechPaul said:


> 11. It looks like you have used spacers instead of screws for several of the IGBT connections. I didn't see where that was explained, but maybe I missed it.


not sure what you refer to - is this about alum standoffs? These are to raise the wires above tall elcaps



PStechPaul said:


> 12. Why does the charger take so long to ramp down the duty cycle when CV point is reached?


not sure what you mean exactly. CV stage is usually quite long in duration as the current is ramped down slowly to maintain CV voltage. The stage is terminated only when the current reaches certain low value (0.05C typical).


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Copper washers are available from McMaster, but they are not cheap, and don't appear to be plated:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-copper-washers/=tp7hz9

Also from Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/80-piece-copper-washer-assortment-67526.html

And eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-100-10-FLAT-WASHER-COPPER-/221400631221
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50Pcs-GB-St...-Flat-Washers-Used-w-Nuts-Bolts-/141137786087

I'm not sure why these washers are needed, and it seems awkward to balance them on the IGBTs and then thread the screws through the PCB. And the depth of the threaded holes in the IGBTs is not a lot, so the length of the screw may be critical so as to get enough threads for a secure connection and not bottom out. I've seen some IGBTs that I got surplus and they had M/F brass standoffs on the terminals.

As for the current carrying capacity of the spokes of the thermal reliefs, I think you can get by with less copper than what is recommended for longer tracks, because the proximity of the thermally conductive ground or power plane keeps the temperature low enough to be safe. There is probably a greater danger of a poor solder joint, especially by a novice with inadequate equipment. And there is also the danger that when the large area of copper around the component (and especially under the capacitors where convection cooling is minimal), the temperature required for a good joint may remain high for a long time and damage the component. Here is a track width calculator and some discussion of thermal spoke size:
http://www.circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/01/31/pcb-trace-width-calculator/

Also, I'm not sure that the ripple current in those capacitors is actually as high as 10A RMS. There are 13 x 560uF capacitors running at about 400V and an output of 30 amps for 12 kW, so I would think the RMS current in the entire capacitor bank would be comparable, and thus no more than about 3 or 4 amps per capacitor. This would be especially true for the PFC version where much of the energy storage and transfer takes place in the first stage inductors.

You can get a pretty nice soldering station for under $50, and replacement handles/elements for about $7:
http://www.mpja.com/Solder-Station-with-LED-Display-ZD-929C/productinfo/15845%20TL
http://www.mpja.com/Solder-Station-15845-TL-ZD-929C-Replacement-Handle/productinfo/15846 TL

They also have SMD tweezers for about $13 that fit the same base:
http://www.mpja.com/Hot-Tweezer-Adapter-For15845-TL-ZD-929C-Solder-Station/productinfo/15847 TL

The spacers I referred to are what appear to be aluminum standoffs from the screw connections on the IGBTs. If they are to carry any considerable amount of current, it is important to note the lower conductivity of aluminum compared to copper (but it's better than brass), but more important is that these spacers are anodized which results in a non-conductive surface. 

For that, as well as the copper washers, and the PCB thermals, it may be a good idea to use a thermal imaging gun or a non-contact IR thermometer to look for hot spots.

I had not heard about DipTrace until now. Here is what I found:
http://www.electroniccircuitsdesign.com/pcb-layout/diptrace-pcb-review.html
http://www.diptrace.com/
http://codeandlife.com/tags/diptrace/
http://tmech.blogspot.com/2007/10/diptrace-pcb-design-software-review.html
http://wiki.mkrd.info/DipTrace_Review
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DipTrace

Just about all reviews and comments were positive, and at $800 for the full package, it is quite reasonable. The autorouter seems to be its weak point, but your boards are fairly simple, and it seems that it can link to a professional autorouter if needed.

I will continue to use PADS because it meets and exceeds all my present and future needs. I once looked at Eagle but it was disappointing. I also tried Kicad a long time ago and it seemed to have some problems. But if I needed to purchase a new PCB package I'd definitely try DipTrace. Thanks for the information.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> sounds like a problem is using high-current sensor with low current output.
> 
> Three issues from this:
> 
> ...


TNX 

So the solution would be twofold

1. Replace 100A sensor with 50A and try as it is. Do i have to change code for the same type of sensor - only less amps? Where in the code is this found?

2. I could wire another inductor. I used 26D because it promised higher inductance in lesser package. Should i use the same core material as you, green/gray? hm... Or do you think i should raise frequency to 35khz? Might be worth the losses.

I must say i tried it at 5A also but no change. Was this to low a load? But charger must be able to hold small current for balancing.
The EMI it throws around is incredible. It jams LCD and everything. Even if the wires are moved inductor changes tune  i could play a song on it... funny?

EDIT: I will then try at 20A to see if it will run steady, but the problem i see it the ramping TO 20A!!! I have to solve this...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Discontinuous mode at low duty cycle may cause high frequency "ringing" at the end of the energy transfer, which can cause a lot of RFI. It can be reduced by using snubbers at the expense of greater losses, or sometimes it id possible to dump the energy back into the primary storage element (Mains capacitors). A better way to control low output currents may be to use "burst" mode, which is essentially a lower frequency PWM of perhaps 100 Hz where you run the charger at, say 10% duty cycle, but cycle it on for 1 mSec and off for 9 mSec to get an effective PWM of 1%. This results in higher ripple but it might not be a problem. 

This method is often used with LED brightness control with like 1000:1 range, but since the human eye is insensitive to 100 Hz the brightness appears to vary smoothly without flicker. For a battery charger it may be necessary to evaluate the effects of, say, 10 amps, applied 1 mSec out of 10, rather than 1 amp of pure DC. The current ripple could be greatly reduced by using an inductor and capacitor, but it may require that it be switched in and out depending on the charge current needed.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

The expertise I have ... It's the time I don't have. ... 3 kids ... 30 horses and a full time job as an electrician will do that. : s ... 





I built the charger ... Never got the driver board instructions. ... Schematics are all for the Pfc version. ... When the driver boards came out there was a whole bunch of info missing basically the version 13 driver boards were being sold and no instructions or schematics had even been released ( which in my mind is inacceptable ). in the first steps of building I even had issues and had sent multiple emails concerning an issue with my output diode being to big to fit under the boards ... after finally having taken a bunch of pictures and 2 more emails I was told I didn't get the right one sent with my kit ... After blowing two igbts and Dc to. Dc convertes while testing I verified with an oscilloscope that my power boards were ok ... having confirmed the proper functioning of the power boards I then ordered a built control board and driver board considering I didn't have time to waste on missing instructions ... The boards arrived 1 month later with no igbt like I ordered ... Even worse the driver board was wrongly built ... Components on one side and connectors on the other. ... For a non Pfc unit everything must be on the same side its impossible to fit or else this is one of the good informations in the instructions which I guarantee are true ... I sent it back to get repaired with valerys approuval that it wasn't a problem since they made a mistake and it would be fixed rapidly ... I got the tracking saying it arrived but valery says it's lost in mail or at the place of arrival which for some reason emw doesn't get there mail sent directly to them ??? ... I sent proof of tracking and a picture of my 20 $ receipt to send it with tracking info... 3 months later I am we're I am now no parts, no clue were anything is and down 250 used ... On a side note the driver board and control board I received had discrepancies to valerys latest instructions for building which I thought was amusing and not normal ... my guess is emw gets there non pfc units working yes but doesn't keep there instructions or ways of building up to date which is why people with non pfc kits have so many issues when building theres ... 



all this to say ... as a paying customer who was very patient in the beginning and very proud to build his own charger and help emw grow bigger in the same process ... I need my parts which I paid for .. which are a working v.13 driver board for a non pfc 12 kilowatt charger . and a new igbt for that same charger ... I was VERY patient ... I sent MULTIPLE emails to know whats going on every week or so ... many of the last ones especially after my parts for repair were lost went completly unanswered ... hense why I came to this board to bitch ! ... its the only place that seems to get emws attention ... which isn't normal ! .. 



valery .... I still need a working driver board and IGBT like I ordered 3 months ago !! ... you know the one you sent to me wrongly built that I sent back to get made properly but never came back to me after 3 months ? ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think we all heard you the first and second time. It's not doing you or anyone else any good to copy and paste the same whining comments over and over again. I can understand your frustration but you should try and do something positive and make helpful suggestions, or just stfu. If you really had the expertise you claim I think you should have been able to identify the problems you had as well as power up and test the boards and assembly in a non-destructive manner, and you could provide details of what you did, which might help others. You may also help by commenting on my observations and suggestions and see if any of those might apply to your situation. 

I am eagerly following this discussion and the development of new products because I want to be an asset to the EV community and I would like products such as EMW's to be as reliable and affordable as possible. But I don't have any "skin in the game" and I don't need an EV charger, and if I did I would most likely design and build it myself, because I have a different design concept and I'd like to see how it might compare to this.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I think we all heard you the first and second time. It's not doing you or anyone else any good to copy and paste the same whining comments over and over again. I can understand your frustration but you should try and do something positive and make helpful suggestions, or just stfu. If you really had the expertise you claim I think you should have been able to identify the problems you had as well as power up and test the boards and assembly in a non-destructive manner, and you could provide details of what you did, which might help others. You may also help by commenting on my observations and suggestions and see if any of those might apply to your situation.
> 
> I am eagerly following this discussion and the development of new products because I want to be an asset to the EV community and I would like products such as EMW's to be as reliable and affordable as possible. But I don't have any "skin in the game" and I don't need an EV charger, and if I did I would most likely design and build it myself, because I have a different design concept and I'd like to see how it might compare to this.




You say you understood the first time obviosly you didnt .... I build automated systems for companies around the world all day long ... At night when im in the area im father of 3 kids under 3 years old . I also own a stable with my wife of 30 horses which my wife runs ... Im the fixer ... After all this i have time ... 0 to build things ... I put aside fixing and anything else around to finish my car and charger . Ive wasted enough time because of emws misguiding information missing documents and bad company management . Im not wasting one more second sorting through there bad documents . Hense why i bought a finished working board to finish my charger !!! Thats all its missing !!! 3 months !!!! 3 fing months still no working board at my doorstep !!!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> TNX
> 
> So the solution would be twofold
> 
> ...


yeah, I think you are getting some issues with noise. Given your layout is completely different from our stock, would you mind posting a few pictures of your setup - best along with PCB layout files.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I'm not sure why these washers are needed, and it seems awkward to balance them on the IGBTs and then thread the screws through the PCB. And the depth of the threaded holes in the IGBTs is not a lot, so the length of the screw may be critical so as to get enough threads for a secure connection and not bottom out. I've seen some IGBTs that I got surplus and they had M/F brass standoffs on the terminals.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure that the ripple current in those capacitors is actually as high as 10A RMS. There are 13 x 560uF capacitors running at about 400V and an output of 30 amps for 12 kW, so I would think the RMS current in the entire capacitor bank would be comparable, and thus no more than about 3 or 4 amps per capacitor. This would be especially true for the PFC version where much of the energy storage and transfer takes place in the first stage inductors.


washers only needed for iGBTs with long landing pads. The ones we now ship with kits (new SEMIKRON 145A 600V - very nice devices!) have short square landing pads and do not require any washers. 

ripple current: actually, PFC is the hardest topology for output caps. The current into caps is always discontinuous. At input AC current of 50A, the peak current on top of AC waveform is 70A. This is the current pulsing into the PFC cap bank on every cycle. The caps that are closest to IGBT get most of the high-frequency component of the ripple current - the ones further away mostly see just 120Hz component. That's one of the fascinating aspects of high-power, high-frequency electronics - nothing is static and best way to think of the energy flows is to use analogies from hydrodynamics - electrical energy is a fluid that you push through pipes, bottles, taps, etc ;-) At least for me this makes it much more intuitive to understand what really happens on that board... so anyway, these effects mean that majority of that 70A ripple hits just 4-5 caps around the IGBT. Hence my estimate of 10A ripple. 

Then there is ripple from the output IGBT pulling on the PFC caps. Sadly, buck topology is the hardest topology for _input_ caps. The current from those caps is always discontunious. As it's always equal to the output DC current, a 70A output would result in 70A ripple applied to the caps next to output IGBT. 

The combined effect is that the caps between the two IGBTs are the most stressed. If you measure their temperature at max current, you will see that they run the hottest. This is partially why we have put film caps next to both IGBTs, as well. This is also partially why we ram air into the gap between the PCB and heatsink in the middle - it cools the copper plates that in turn extract heat from caps. Having thermal relief pads would be counter-productive in this case. 

PS. We did see PCB copper explode around cap leads a couple of times during stress tests back when we had 1.25oz copper on the power board. that was even without using thermal relief pads. Maybe it would be ok if we used them but I don't want to try ;-)

BTW the fact that output PFC current and input buck current are discontinuous makes the section between the two IGBT extremely noisy if layout is in any way sub-optimal. 

V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> You say you understood the first time obviosly you didnt .... I build automated systems for companies around the world all day long ... At night when im in the area im father of 3 kids under 3 years old . I also own a stable with my wife of 30 horses which my wife runs ... Im the fixer ... After all this i have time ... 0 to build things ... I put aside fixing and anything else around to finish my car and charger . Ive wasted enough time because of emws misguiding information missing documents and bad company management . Im not wasting one more second sorting through there bad documents . Hense why i bought a finished working board to finish my charger !!! Thats all its missing !!! 3 months !!!! 3 fing months still no working board at my doorstep !!!


you got a full refund for your board order. pissing me off more won't help


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

i Still need a working driver board And igbt ...... Valery ? ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> PS. We did see PCB copper explode around cap leads a couple of times during stress tests back when we had 1.25oz copper on the power board. that was even without using thermal relief pads. Maybe it would be ok if we used them but I don't want to try ;-)
> 
> V


I am now using two 4700uf 450V caps on input. I found them removed from a large UPS station. I tested them and they still keep 4500uF. Besides the capacity there is also ESR to consider. For example i used 8000uF bank of 8x 1000uF caps versus one of those 4700uF caps... A single cap didnt even make a sound at 40A output while a bank of 8 1000uF caps was buzzing like angry wasps.

Regarding copper stress on PCB, i found out that if you solder caps very close to PCB the stress is greatest on the sides of the board. I use rubber pads (silicon or i just cut rubber tube from a bicycle) under caps. This releaves stress when caps expand. Once I had contacts rip off off the cap that was stressed too much!

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> you got a full refund for your board order. case closed. your pissing me off more won't help you, my friend



I have a 2000$ brick with your name on it that says the case isnt closed ... What's sad is you see it as not normal that i got pissed after waiting for 3 months for a part !!!!! 3 months !!!!! You dont even realise youve made a mistake you just blame the post office and then the company you get your things delivered to ect ... The reason i sent the board back is because you screwed up in the first place ... Yes i got pissed and talked your company down ... Im more than allowed at this point after so long and so many excuses ...

Tonight im going to rebuy on your site a driver board . well try to do it right this time .... Again .... Hopefully you will agree for the best of both our worlds ... 

How many non answered emails ... No news ... The only way to get your attention is on here ... Its sad ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> yeah, I think you are getting some issues with noise. Given your layout is completely different from our stock, would you mind posting a few pictures of your setup - best along with PCB layout files.


Here are pictures of single phase charger. All elements are TO247 with silicon washer on the back. I see no problem with temp on transistor.
Inductor i made from T300-26D core that promised better permeability for smaller package. I approached this with continuous load in mind, i never taught it ran in discontinuous... Hm.

Pictures are here:
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/02092014653.jpg?w=627
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/25082014620.jpg?w=627
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/25082014619.jpg?w=627
http://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/08092014660.jpg?w=627

Do you think it would be ok if i used T300-40D core with 55 turns like you use on larger T400 cores? By which parameter did you design inductor exactly? Is it core permeability or or wire turns? T300 would make for a smaller/lighter package .

tnx


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am not a magnetics expert but I took a look at the specifications for the different core materials, and here is what I found:
http://www.micrometals.com/materials_index.html

T400-30D (per schematic) 81 nH/N^2 55 turns=>242 uH
T300-26D 160 nH/N^2 55 turns=>484 uH
T300-40D 142 nH/N^2 55 turns=>429 uH

Per the winding tables showing energy storage limits vs temperature rise, for full winding and 25C rise:
T400-30D 200,000 uJ * 10kHz => 2000 watts
T300-26D 89,500 uJ * 10kHz => 895 watts
T300-40D 89,800 uJ * 10 kHz => 898 watts
T400-40D 241,000 uJ * 10 kHz => 2410 watts
T400-52 134,000 uJ * 10 kHz => 1340 watts (half thickness core)
T400-40 122,000 uJ * 10 kHz => 1220 watts

It appears that the type 40 material has higher power handling capacity and type 52 is even better. All of these materials seem to be usable up to about 100 kHz so it may be worthwhile to explore the use of much faster IGBTs or MOSFETs to achieve smaller (and cheaper) magnetics and higher efficiency. But it is difficult to find MOSFETs much higher than 600V, especially with current ratings typical of IGBTs. 

But I did find a 600V 75A 36mOhm 600W MOSFET for about $10:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMshyDBzk1/Wi5R7vBZHzT67wOnRRXfffrc=

And a 1200V 90A 25mOhm 460W MOSFET for about $68:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...DBzk1/Wi8JAly6dyqCmpo1TssfI9JWYNMTX%2bZ2GIA==


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I am not a magnetics expert but I took a look at the specifications for the different core materials, and here is what I found:
> http://www.micrometals.com/materials_index.html
> 
> T400-30D (per schematic) 81 nH/N^2 55 turns=>242 uH
> ...


Hm, would you think then it is best i use the T300-40D core with higher PWM frequency. Say 35KHz or 55kHz? So not to allow current to cross to zero during other half of the cycle? 

I am using those IGBT now and they seem to have less dissipation at higher freq. than big IGBTs. The point is i want small 1phase 3,5kW charger.
http://si.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stgw39nc60vd/igbt-to-247/dp/1293660

Up untill now i am getting all sorts of noise from my inductor, LCD is not working and buttons are sluggish. Charger however is outputting 5A like i set it in pwr settings. Go figure.

I will try to up frequency with the same core, while i wait for a different one. 

Valery; i must say i tested my first (big) charger at 1A and it performed very good! You must have balanced design very well. Compliments. However if you used 100A sensor and in my small charger i keep your firmware/hardware intact, then i dont see the problem with sensor. This would be the problem with inductor then, no?

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Huh, strange... I set up small charger and start it. It suddenly worked fine. I set up 15A output and it worked at 14.5A to the 0.2A precision. Normaly when my large charger works there s cca 3 to 5A variation in reading. Hm I will add a fan and try some more.
...............................................................................
After a while i touched control board and immediately inductor gave out noise, LCD froze but PWM was ok. Huh, it seems this was caused by a set of 230AC wires that drives my contactor. They come in driver board relay and leave for contactor, all AC triggering. Hm...

Also i noticed again how charger went into pause after 15A charging and after i stopped it it diddnt want to reset, what could that be!!!
I will try and add shield to LCD cable.
...................................................................................................................................................................................................
EDIT: I tried to charge at 18A and charger worked fine, YAY!!!! I think i have to be careful of sensing cable length and position. When i put it in a box i will shorten wires etc...
Now i have to install a good fan and heatsink and try at 25A! And investigate the strange pausing during charge... I will post photos of it later.

A


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## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

Hello, can anyone please help us with this problem?

When we input 60v DC to the charger, the screen shows 346v as the input current,
and when we input 120v AC the charger is showing 292v on the input. So it seem that the charger is inverting?. I did notice some notes about adjusting something in the firmware code,
but only if its not reading 120v / 240v properly, nothing about the voltage being inverse.

any ideas where to start troubleshooting this problem?
thanks
brucifer


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

This story seems to be closed. I successfully built and tested small 3kW charger on the frame of the EMW large nonpfc charger. It works and is small enough to fit to electric bicycle or e-bike! Still it is NonPFC and hence lower on efficiency, but it gets the job done very well.
________________________________________________________________
Valery i would like to ask you for your help with 600V buck module for 3phase charger. I want to use one TO247 IGBT with a HCPL J312 driver wired the same as on the driver board. What it lacks is a fixed PWM signal from arduino. 
Since i still have one port free on controll board - port 11 i could use it as a fixed PWM output. 
My question is, is this worth pursuing? Can i get PWM from port 11 to work at 20kHz or whatever clock the main PWM runs? I mean can i use the same timer prescaler as for the main PWM pin?

I need the pin 11 to come online BEFORE other controls, and slowly up the duty so that middle capacitors get at least 2/3 of their charge. Then i drive this PWM at fixed duty cca 65% for 380VDC input on original EMW charger input. Since this will be HV to MV operation i belive 380V 25A input will suffice, so i can use TO247s and the whole module can be very small, except for inductor which i will have to determine on the go.

Other option is make a fixed PWM with 555 chip, and use port 11 only to trigger 555 chip. But at 20kHz 555 is not really stable....Hm

tnx

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It is actually cheaper and easier to use something like a PIC12F1822 (less than $1) and it needs no external components to generate a stable PWM signal up to several hundred kHz.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> It is actually cheaper and easier to use something like a PIC12F1822 (less than $1) and it needs no external components to generate a stable PWM signal up to several hundred kHz.


Huh i would never thought of that... I still have 10 of them lying in wait from my BMS project.  tnx for the idea.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Huh, strange... I set up small charger and start it. It suddenly worked fine. I set up 15A output and it worked at 14.5A to the 0.2A precision. Normaly when my large charger works there s cca 3 to 5A variation in reading. Hm I will add a fan and try some more.
> ...............................................................................
> After a while i touched control board and immediately inductor gave out noise, LCD froze but PWM was ok. Huh, it seems this was caused by a set of 230AC wires that drives my contactor. They come in driver board relay and leave for contactor, all AC triggering. Hm...
> 
> ...



this is awesome, Arber! yes, keep all your signal wires short and tightly twisted. Remember that the higher the frequency, the easier it is to pick up noise.

Also, just an anecdote from a couple of years back when i had a very stubborn problem with charger going haywire above ~10a output. tried a bunch of things - nothing worked. then, after ~4 hours of pulling my hair out, i noticed that one of the signal ground wires was passing through an inductor on the way to the control board (layout was different back then). So that wire actually acted as a half-turn on the transformer with the inductor as a primary. As the power was ramping up, that secondary produced spikes a few volts in magnitude and screwed everything up. In retrospect looks like a pretty dumb error... ;-))


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> This story seems to be closed. I successfully built and tested small 3kW charger on the frame of the EMW large nonpfc charger. It works and is small enough to fit to electric bicycle or e-bike! Still it is NonPFC and hence lower on efficiency, but it gets the job done very well.
> ________________________________________________________________
> Valery i would like to ask you for your help with 600V buck module for 3phase charger. I want to use one TO247 IGBT with a HCPL J312 driver wired the same as on the driver board. What it lacks is a fixed PWM signal from arduino.
> Since i still have one port free on controll board - port 11 i could use it as a fixed PWM output.
> ...


why do you need a fixed duty? Don't you want the charger to regulate that output?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> why do you need a fixed duty? Don't you want the charger to regulate that output?


Err yes, but i dont know if i can use arduino port 11 to output different PWM frequency than main PWM pin. The way i see it timers are used up for various purposes already. Can i use port 11 to output my PWM signal?
I could then feed 35kHz signal to the second driver/IGBT board mounted on heatsink trough TO247 transistors. That way i wouldnt need such large inductor in between. Also i could trigger this PWM a couple of seconds before main pwm to charge caps in the middle. And in case i connect to 230VAC, PWM could automaticaly become trough signal and open IGBT fully so i could use the second stage freely . There would be some losses but hopefully not too much. 

Can you help here? I would like to simply add one PWM pin to arduino. 

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> this is awesome, Arber! yes, keep all your signal wires short and tightly twisted. Remember that the higher the frequency, the easier it is to pick up noise.
> 
> Also, just an anecdote from a couple of years back when i had a very stubborn problem with charger going haywire above ~10a output. tried a bunch of things - nothing worked. then, after ~4 hours of pulling my hair out, i noticed that one of the signal ground wires was passing through an inductor on the way to the control board (layout was different back then). So that wire actually acted as a half-turn on the transformer with the inductor as a primary. As the power was ramping up, that secondary produced spikes a few volts in magnitude and screwed everything up. In retrospect looks like a pretty dumb error... ;-))


Yes i use 35kHz now and TOs are heating up some. I am still waiting for a proper heatsink. But LCD keeps locking when on cable! I wiill try with FTP cable but ultimately i will just solder it to control board.

Well i had to wire my toroid from the middle so magnetics are canceling themselves automatically. I did however remove all input wires from inductor proximity. I think it helps. 
Heh, you must have figured out by now i have a profesional disfunction; i just have to reduce things to the limit, and so i used a very small 1A 12V AC/DC power supply and it works very well. Since i use 230VAC fan 1A current is sufficient.

EDIT: While we are at it, i tried this cheap 12V 1A PSU with my battery voltage. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331067315864?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
It gave off enough current to feed my BMS circuit AND start the car (main contactor, mind you). And even better it is completely isolated. I think i will use one of them connected to BMS aster to fully separat6e supply voltage. Also i will add AC socket to my battery in the back. This will allow me tu use one 12V PSU to start my car in case 12V battery is empty. 

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

crackerjackz said:


> I have a 2000$ brick with your name on it that says the case isnt closed ... What's sad is you see it as not normal that i got pissed after waiting for 3 months for a part !!!!! 3 months !!!!! You dont even realise youve made a mistake you just blame the post office and then the company you get your things delivered to ect ... The reason i sent the board back is because you screwed up in the first place ... Yes i got pissed and talked your company down ... Im more than allowed at this point after so long and so many excuses ...
> 
> Tonight im going to rebuy on your site a driver board . well try to do it right this time .... Again .... Hopefully you will agree for the best of both our worlds ...
> 
> How many non answered emails ... No news ... The only way to get your attention is on here ... Its sad ...




Valery i sent you an email 2 or 3 days ago .... The driver board isnt sold on your website ... Please take note of that email and reply thank you ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Valery i sent you an email 2 or 3 days ago .... The driver board isnt sold on your website ... Please take note of that email and reply thank you ...


They were never available from our site - the only things that were ever available are PCB sets, complete kits, and complete assembled board sets. We did sell a few boards loose but only as exceptions when someone really needed help. Most times that didn't help...

Not sure what you refer to as a $2,000 brick, either. You paid $999 for a non-PFC kit - just like everyone else. And like it says in the manual - go ahead and shop around to get all the parts yourself - you will see that you've pretty much just paid for the parts. 

IMHO a person who doesn't have any time in his / her life AND has no experience building complex electronic systems from parts shouldn't really attempt building something like this in the first place. This caution is repeated in the manual at least twice. 

We are all big boys here and can hopefully understand when we go beyond our depth and not blame other people for it. If you can't / don't have time to put the kit together, get an assembled unit. We can't and won't ever accept a return on a partially assembled kit - only a suicidal company would do that. 

We could of course sell you assembled boards (and we did once already) but at this point I think this will just create more of a liability as we would just give you more reason to blame us for any downstream issues regardless of reason. 

So all I am prepared to do is to sell you unpopulated PCBs and parts - with you being fully responsible for assembly quality / testing / etc. Feel free to email me directly.

Val.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Brucifer said:


> Hello, can anyone please help us with this problem?
> 
> When we input 60v DC to the charger, the screen shows 346v as the input current,
> and when we input 120v AC the charger is showing 292v on the input. So it seem that the charger is inverting?. I did notice some notes about adjusting something in the firmware code,
> ...


just fyi to rest what I replied to Bruce over email:

-----
The only system function depending on the input voltage measurement is a 120v derating. So if you power it up with 240v , you are going to be fine.

To really fix it, you would need to edit the firmware function read_mV()
-----

the read_mV function calibration is described elsewhere in this forum. That description is now also available from the manual - page 70 in https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...WUuQaBlZjY0Bpl32SmvJy8rTZgg2p0Nn8MAndeE/edit#


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Err yes, but i dont know if i can use arduino port 11 to output different PWM frequency than main PWM pin. The way i see it timers are used up for various purposes already. Can i use port 11 to output my PWM signal?
> I could then feed 35kHz signal to the second driver/IGBT board mounted on heatsink trough TO247 transistors. That way i wouldnt need such large inductor in between. Also i could trigger this PWM a couple of seconds before main pwm to charge caps in the middle. And in case i connect to 230VAC, PWM could automaticaly become trough signal and open IGBT fully so i could use the second stage freely . There would be some losses but hopefully not too much.
> 
> Can you help here? I would like to simply add one PWM pin to arduino.
> ...


Sure - from http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PwmFrequency:
-----------------------------------
PWM frequencies are tied together in pairs of pins. If one in a pair is changed, the other is also changed to match:
* - Pins 5 and 6 are paired on timer0
* - Pins 9 and 10 are paired on timer1
* - Pins 3 and 11 are paired on timer2
-----------------------------------

the charger uses pins 9 and 10 on timer1 for main PWM and current limit reference outputs, respectively. Pin 3 is used for one of the buttons. Which leaves you with pins 5, 6, 11 that you could theoretically use for your new PWM signal. 

However, from http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/SecretsOfArduinoPWM:
------------------
The Arduino uses Timer 0 internally for the millis() and delay() functions, so be warned that changing the frequency of this timer will cause those functions to be erroneous. Using the PWM outputs is safe if you don't change the frequency, though.
------------------

Hence your pin 11 is indeed the only choice you have for your own PWM setup. Lucky you ;-)

Now I still have the same question - why do you need a fixed-duty PWM? Fixed duty would mean that you cannot regulate the output of whatever you are driving with that PWM...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Err yes, but i dont know if i can use arduino port 11 to output different PWM frequency than main PWM pin. The way i see it timers are used up for various purposes already. Can i use port 11 to output my PWM signal?
> I could then feed 35kHz signal to the second driver/IGBT board mounted on heatsink trough TO247 transistors. That way i wouldnt need such large inductor in between. Also i could trigger this PWM a couple of seconds before main pwm to charge caps in the middle. And in case i connect to 230VAC, PWM could automaticaly become trough signal and open IGBT fully so i could use the second stage freely . There would be some losses but hopefully not too much.
> 
> Can you help here? I would like to simply add one PWM pin to arduino.
> ...


BTW make sure you have a very good electrical isolation between that TO247 case and the heatsink. The metal tabs on virtually all TO220 / TO247 devices are electrically live as they are tied to the collector of the IGBT. By the way that also makes them quite strong radiators of EMI - especially if the case is not isolated from the heatsink - in that situation your heatsink becomes a large antenna for all the transients that happen on the collector.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

just for fun. this is a QuickCharge-25000 LV running the same latest-version inductor we now ship as part of kits. 60C steady-state inductor temp at 25C ambient! 53C steady-state heatsink temp! Running from 240VAC 3-phase.

[the reason temp reading is 46C at just 84 sec runtime is that we run it at 90A for a few minutes before this 100A run]


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Sure - from http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PwmFrequency:
> -----------------------------------
> PWM frequencies are tied together in pairs of pins. If one in a pair is changed, the other is also changed to match:
> * - Pins 5 and 6 are paired on timer0
> ...


I knew i had to use pin11 for pwm, but i didnt know if i can use it at different freq than other pins...
Hm, should i edit prescaler for timer2? Is there anything EMW coupled with timer2? I will try to use as high frequency as practical, because i can then use smaller inductor. And i saw that from 600V to 400V 25A you need 600uH inductance at 16kHz! With 35Khz i would need only 300uH!

Well as for fixed duty... i need 65% duty to lower voltage from 600V (more like 580V) to 380V which i can then use with EMW charger (it would now get named 2nd stage module, like a lunar module ). 
For the first stage lack of control doesnt really matter. It should just throw out a voltage around 380V and up to 25A of current. I should only time it to open couple s before main charger to precharge caps in the middle (behind first IGBT) and shutdown with the rest of the process. 

Hm maybe i should also make a sort of ramping from 20% to 65% to ease the load on caps, but then again with three precharge resistors and 15s precharge i should use maybe 5s delay between first and main function start.

I would then use input V measuring to open IGBT continuously if the input voltage is bellow 400V. That should allow the use of single phase also. 

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> BTW make sure you have a very good electrical isolation between that TO247 case and the heatsink. The metal tabs on virtually all TO220 / TO247 devices are electrically live as they are tied to the collector of the IGBT. By the way that also makes them quite strong radiators of EMI - especially if the case is not isolated from the heatsink - in that situation your heatsink becomes a large antenna for all the transients that happen on the collector.


Yes i use silicon pads and i measured the contacts - no short...

BUT i figured something else... If TO247 is used to transfer 25A then so are its legs and pads etc... In my enthusiasm i forgot to space legs apart to give E and C generous tracks. I have only like 3mm of 2oz copper... I will add solid 1.5mm2 wire between E / C and rest of board!

A


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> They were never available from our site - the only things that were ever available are PCB sets, complete kits, and complete assembled board sets. We did sell a few boards loose but only as exceptions when someone really needed help. Most times that didn't help...
> 
> Not sure what you refer to as a $2,000 brick, either. You paid $999 for a non-PFC kit - just like everyone else. And like it says in the manual - go ahead and shop around to get all the parts yourself - you will see that you've pretty much just paid for the parts.
> 
> ...






Lol if only people on this site new the whole story .... At this point in time any further debating about who sucks more the guy making shitty instructions or the guy following them is pointless .... Send me an email quote of an unpopulated version 13 non pfc driver board with a a3180 ??? Standoff ... Obviosly i would like all the parts that go on it .... I also need an igbt ... 


Thanks in advance for all your wonderful amazing help .... 

Ps my background is a college degree in industrial electronics and a degree as a master electrician and journeyman ... 
I build systems that you could only dream of ... Difference is i make them from scratch with people how know there stuff and know how to make electrical schematics and diagrams ... You dont ... Debate me on that and trust me ill fill this thread with every single error on every page and missing document you have . Your plans are aweful misleading and not even for non pfc units lol ... 

This aside ... Ill have no choice but to populate and finish the charger myself ... Which i will do ... But ill need the parts ... As always thank you ... Send me the paypal invoice you know my informations ...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Lol if only people on this site new the whole story .... At this point in time any further debating about who sucks more the guy making shitty instructions or the guy following them is pointless .... Send me an email quote of an unpopulated version 13 non pfc driver board with a a3180 ??? Standoff ... Obviosly i would like all the parts that go on it .... I also need an igbt ...
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for all your wonderful amazing help ....
> ...


Shit!!!

What is it with you guys with masters and all .... attitude. I dont need my title when i am welding and working on a lathe... its actually a hindrance, all the study and all.
And in the end you insult the guy who will send you goods for payment. Heh where i come from you would get your stuff but something very tiny would be missing, just to teach you that YOU need the object not the attitude! And to think of i was trying to help you...
I would probably be next.

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Actually the driver board (at least the non-PFC version) does not have a whole lot of parts and they are pretty easily available, so you could build it on a perf-board easily enough. I've done things far more complex. While you are at it, you might be able to incorporate some of the design improvements that have been suggested here. And you might be able to get a few IGBTs surplus or pulled from VFDs, although size and form factor may be difficult to match. I think that's what I would do. It's not "rocket science".


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Paul i agree i could build it on a perforated board ... But as you mentioned size would be an issue also once again ... Time ... As for the attitude ... Trust me im not like this normally but getting told i should stay away from building high power electronics is insulting like you have no idea ... Ive built as big as 25000 volt bus bar systems down to the basics of and and or gate car alarm boards ... 


Im very unsatisfied of emw in so many ways ... Im surprised there still in business ... But whatever there company policy is ... I still need my charger to get finished ... Hense why im asking for the parts ...


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## Vhclbldr (Feb 8, 2014)

This thread has gone a bit off the rails...
Oh, and filled with "aweful" grammar....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Still waiting ...


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

crackerjackz said:


> Still waiting ...


Can I be of any assistance? I feel your pain, I have a V14 with crappy firmware the charger doesn't function. I don't have the time and energy to debug the new version. I will wait until it's figured out and hopefully be able to load a working version. I've built a version before version numbers, plus a V9ish and now a V14. I tried to make the deluxe dashboard work, it had so much potential, I have a juicebox that's on the do to list as well.

Valery is a brilliant man, his motivation and desire to bring these products to the community is wonderful. He's a crappy businessman and worse technical writer. I mean no offence to him and EMW, I hope they find their place in the EV community to be successful and make happy customers.

For whatever reason I'm a multiple repeat customer, maybe I'm hoping that they get better in time, but if anything they get worse, much worse as they diversify and spread themselves too thin to make any single thing work. The last version of the firmware that Valery sent appeared to be strait off a bench or test unit. For a very different purpose, configured for dc/dc charging or something I don't remember I gave up. Changing the main configs to the 12kw doesn't allow the code to compile, there are 50+ errors.

I would expect a V14 product to have a level of refinement and polish that changing a few variables in the top of the code selects the device, maybe some user configurable options for desired functions, but something that works and compiles and runs. Something tested, something that isn't going to burn down my car because I walked away from it.

I have a spare IGBT, I honestly haven't looked at the differences between a PFC/non PFC version, except for my first charger told me to install the driver board backwards (copy and paste error from the non PFC version) well it blew up....

In short I feel your pain, and as a fellow Canadian I'm happy to go out of my way to help you if Valery won't. Do you have the original driver board that was a problem?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery hi.

Last time i asked about Hall sensor and i didnt get the whole answer. Can you tell me if i can simply use Allegro 050U sensor instead of 100U? Of course i would comment correct switches in code... Or is there more to it than simply changing sensor?

Also, i would like to ask according to your experience, what is the proportional capacitance required by PFC charger at 30A output? I could use 2000uF after PFC stage and 4000uF 450V after main chopper. Of course i would use 15uF plastic caps. Do you think it would be enough at this output?

tnx

Arber


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

rwaudio said:


> Can I be of any assistance? I feel your pain, I have a V14 with crappy firmware the charger doesn't function. I don't have the time and energy to debug the new version. I will wait until it's figured out and hopefully be able to load a working version. I've built a version before version numbers, plus a V9ish and now a V14. I tried to make the deluxe dashboard work, it had so much potential, I have a juicebox that's on the do to list as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes i still have the problematic driver board ,is it problematic ... I think not i just think theres missing parts because of bad instructions ... When i received valerys wrongly built board i had taken pics to show him and explain discrepancies between my board and his board . When i reread his instructions my board was on par ... My guess is they make there boards work with every update but dont update there instructions ...


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

rwaudio said:


> Can I be of any assistance? I feel your pain, I have a V14 with crappy firmware the charger doesn't function. I don't have the time and energy to debug the new version. I will wait until it's figured out and hopefully be able to load a working version. I've built a version before version numbers, plus a V9ish and now a V14. I tried to make the deluxe dashboard work, it had so much potential, I have a juicebox that's on the do to list as well.
> 
> Valery is a brilliant man, his motivation and desire to bring these products to the community is wonderful. He's a crappy businessman and worse technical writer. I mean no offence to him and EMW, I hope they find their place in the EV community to be successful and make happy customers.
> 
> ...


It sounds as if a few people have mentioned that the firmware has issues. I've looked at the 14_4 firmware that is the most current version. It can be a bit difficult to follow and I could see how it'd be easy to mis-configure it such that it would not compile or would not work. It probably doesn't help that it is supposed to be compiled with a very old version of the Arduino IDE. I haven't used the 022 version of the IDE in years (that version is nearly 4 years old!)

It isn't exactly a super secret since it is on my github account but I've been working on a fork of their firmware. I'm currently messing about with porting it to an Arduino Due based version. I do not work from EMW so this isn't anything official but I'm hoping to come up with something easier to compile, faster, fitter, happier, more productive. This, unfortunately, doesn't do a bit of good for everyone using the current control boards with ATMEGA chips. But, you've got to start somewhere.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have also offered to help. I'm pretty good at technical writing for assembly, test, troubleshooting, and calibration procedures, and that would probably be a major factor in getting these kits built correctly as well as being able to test them at low power so that things don't blow up as they seem to. But in order to do so, I would need a set of boards (old ones or scrap ones partially assembled would be OK), and perhaps some of those parts that are hard to find. I can provide my own IGBTs and magnetics to make a lower power version of the charger, which would be ideal for engineering and troubleshooting purposes. I have no need for such a charger, so I am not willing to spend any more than maybe $20 or so for the boards.

Most likely, once I have successfully constructed a scaled-down version (perhaps 1000 watts), I would make some rather major changes as I have proposed earlier, to see if they improve the operation and safety of the device. Although I would be willing to get an Arduino development kit just so I could "get my feet wet" as it were, and use the source code supplied by EMW, I would probably prefer to port the software to a PIC platform, with which I am more familiar, and which I think is more appropriate for a professional design.

I have made a similar offer before, and it has gone unanswered. It does not especially bother me, since I have no "skin in the game", but I think I could help the EV community and the efforts of EMW. If I needed a high power charger and had the problems presented here, I would be discouraged as well. As I and others have said, there are two sides to this problem, and valid reasons for everyone's viewpoints, but it almost seems like things are getting worse with new releases of boards, component changes, and software revisions.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I have also offered to help. I'm pretty good at technical writing for assembly, test, troubleshooting, and calibration procedures, and that would probably be a major factor in getting these kits built correctly as well as being able to test them at low power so that things don't blow up as they seem to. But in order to do so, I would need a set of boards (old ones or scrap ones partially assembled would be OK), and perhaps some of those parts that are hard to find. I can provide my own IGBTs and magnetics to make a lower power version of the charger, which would be ideal for engineering and troubleshooting purposes. I have no need for such a charger, so I am not willing to spend any more than maybe $20 or so for the boards.
> 
> Most likely, once I have successfully constructed a scaled-down version (perhaps 1000 watts), I would make some rather major changes as I have proposed earlier, to see if they improve the operation and safety of the device. Although I would be willing to get an Arduino development kit just so I could "get my feet wet" as it were, and use the source code supplied by EMW, I would probably prefer to port the software to a PIC platform, with which I am more familiar, and which I think is more appropriate for a professional design.
> 
> I have made a similar offer before, and it has gone unanswered. It does not especially bother me, since I have no "skin in the game", but I think I could help the EV community and the efforts of EMW. If I needed a high power charger and had the problems presented here, I would be discouraged as well. As I and others have said, there are two sides to this problem, and valid reasons for everyone's viewpoints, but it almost seems like things are getting worse with new releases of boards, component changes, and software revisions.




Tell you what .... Emw sent me a working ... Well supposedly ... Universal control board ... I already had one complete unit built from there instructions ... Send me your full address to my email [email protected] ... You deserve a board with everything youve done .... I woûd gladly send you my driver board as well if emw would send me a working unit  ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Email sent.

Valery, would you be willing to send me some boards (non-working or bare) and some of the less common parts for the charger? That way I can have a better idea what's going on, and thus be able to offer more informed help for those who seem to need it.

BTW, I just found the latest documentation for V14, and I see that there have been some changes (improvements) to the schematics. But the BOM and build instructions seem to be available only in the on-line Google Docs format, and although I was able to copy and paste the spreadsheet, it lost much of the formatting, and I could only "print" the instructions to a PDF file. 

I might as well try my hand at working with the Arduino, and apparently the one being used is the Arduino Pro Mini 5V 16 MHz, which is $10 from SparkFun, and the FTDI bridge is about $15. I might be able to buy them locally:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/431996/Arduino_Pro_Mini_Board
http://www.microcenter.com/product/389986/OSEPP_FTDI_Breakout_Board

I may need to order the display from SparkFun:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11377

Or would any of these work?
http://www.microcenter.com/product/414966/28_TFT_Touch_Shield
http://www.microcenter.com/product/396460/Graphic_LCD_Board
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-Serial-...CD-Module-Display-128-x-160Dots-/171066165967
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2-Serail-...62K-Colors-4-IO-Needed-ILI9341C-/181254367563

Anything else I might need to get started?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Display is already on the board so is the already programmed arduino ... Ill send you the complet finished per instructions ... Emw universal control board version 12 ...


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

I purchased the asembled and tested PFC 12K SmartCharge from EMW 3 months ago. The charger has been working wonderfully every day, until yesterday. The charger appears to now have no output current. The display says its supplying 0.5A, even though it is well below CV (168V measured, with 181V CV, 51 LiFePO4 @3.55V cutoff). The pack is not getting charged.

What could be wrong? I've checked for any loose connections, burnt ICs, etc, and everything looks good. It recognizes the EVSEs pilot signal, because if I change the current level I see the corresponding change in the display.

I didn't build it so I'm not familiar with the circuit. What can I check?

Or should I just send it back?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> Lol if only people on this site new the whole story .... At this point in time any further debating about who sucks more the guy making shitty instructions or the guy following them is pointless .... Send me an email quote of an unpopulated version 13 non pfc driver board with a a3180 ??? Standoff ... Obviosly i would like all the parts that go on it .... I also need an igbt ...
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for all your wonderful amazing help ....
> ...


dude, you know what. enough with this. who do you think you are? you can't tell a transistor from a voltage regulator, you think that a diode and rectifier are completely different things and mock ME for using those terms interchangeably (if you need to refresh your memory, read back a few pages here), and then you shit all over what my company does here. You know what, show me what YOU did for the community. 

I am not interested in any further business with you.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sholland said:


> I purchased the asembled and tested PFC 12K SmartCharge from EMW 3 months ago. The charger has been working wonderfully every day, until yesterday. The charger appears to now have no output current. The display says its supplying 0.5A, even though it is well below CV (168V measured, with 181V CV, 51 LiFePO4 @3.55V cutoff). The pack is not getting charged.
> 
> What could be wrong? I've checked for any loose connections, burnt ICs, etc, and everything looks good. It recognizes the EVSEs pilot signal, because if I change the current level I see the corresponding change in the display.
> 
> ...


What version driver board do you have?

Check HCPL 7520 opto chip on your driver board. Check its connections from driver board to control board. Specially check V output pin. 
When i assembled one NonPFC unit myself i get this error also. When no input voltage charger was increasing duty, but with all power connected charger would stay at 0,5A!
I use DIP8 casings for all chips and i just checked I/Os and found V doesnt have anything on. I changed 7520 chip and it worked...

Also check LM211 comparator for operation.

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery hi.
> 
> Last time i asked about Hall sensor and i didnt get the whole answer. Can you tell me if i can simply use Allegro 050U sensor instead of 100U? Of course i would comment correct switches in code... Or is there more to it than simply changing sensor?
> 
> ...


yes you can just change to 050U - just make sure you change the switches but you know that already. 

output capacitance is not too sensitive. In fact, it would be better to not use that much capacitance on the output and instead use much of it between the two stages.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sholland said:


> I purchased the asembled and tested PFC 12K SmartCharge from EMW 3 months ago. The charger has been working wonderfully every day, until yesterday. The charger appears to now have no output current. The display says its supplying 0.5A, even though it is well below CV (168V measured, with 181V CV, 51 LiFePO4 @3.55V cutoff). The pack is not getting charged.
> 
> What could be wrong? I've checked for any loose connections, burnt ICs, etc, and everything looks good. It recognizes the EVSEs pilot signal, because if I change the current level I see the corresponding change in the display.
> 
> ...


Come by our San Carlos shop. We will figure it out. Evenings or weekends are best. I believe you have the address. 

Thx.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Email sent.
> 
> Valery, would you be willing to send me some boards (non-working or bare) and some of the less common parts for the charger? That way I can have a better idea what's going on, and thus be able to offer more informed help for those who seem to need it.
> 
> ...


Paul - I can send you a bunch of bare boards, yes. Just pay shipping. I believe you have my email - let me know what parts you would want to get. I can get you some smaller inductors etc, as well. 

PIC is fine but do note that this locks your design out of the most enthusiasts. Many people are comfortable enough with very un-intimidating Arduino but those professional environment from chip manufacturers look scary enough for most that no-one bothers. So be ready that very very few people will ever be even looking at the code and there will be no derivative work by anyone else.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Valery - I don't have your email in my address book, and most of my emails from 2013 and earlier are not easily accessible. I'll send an email to your company using [email protected]. Can I just send you something like $50 through PayPal to cover a medium or large flat rate box? You can add whatever you think I might need. If I will have a complete control board with the Arduino and display, I would need only some of the parts for the power board and the driver. I'll make a list of what I'd like to have and email you. Thanks.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Paul - I can send you a bunch of bare boards, yes. Just pay shipping. I believe you have my email - let me know what parts you would want to get. I can get you some smaller inductors etc, as well.
> 
> PIC is fine but do note that this locks your design out of the most enthusiasts. Many people are comfortable enough with very un-intimidating Arduino but those professional environment from chip manufacturers look scary enough for most that no-one bothers. So be ready that very very few people will ever be even looking at the code and there will be no derivative work by anyone else.


I must agree with you Val. I used PIC on my BMS and have to read some books to modify the code. But this was only adding delays and changing one function. I couldnt get myself to try pwm or registry addressing and other stuff... Arduino is very easy to figure out for a normal Joe. 

Hm, what i figured out however is; charger is more important than battery size . Being able to charge quickly is a great asset. 
So Paul if you can contribute to making general software for PIC or AVR so we can use reliable chips with minimum of user involvement in programming (just upload new firmware version) that would be great. You could even use cheaper 1602 LCD etc...
What this needs is a normally working platform with good performance so we can freeze hardware design and develop stable software. That means that charger will stay fixed though, no more experimenting on that design... Which is a good thing for us normal customers . 

my 5c...

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> The last version of the firmware that Valery sent appeared to be strait off a bench or test unit. For a very different purpose, configured for dc/dc charging or something I don't remember I gave up. Changing the main configs to the 12kw doesn't allow the code to compile, there are 50+ errors.


You should have posted it here or emailed me as soon as you saw the issue, Robin. 

Here are what the switches should be set to for a 12kW V14 unit:

//============================== MAIN SWITCHES FOR EMotorWerks chargers =================
#define VerStr "V14.4"
#define SmartCharge // 12kW chargers
#define PFC // is this a PFC unit? no need to have this when QuickCharge is selected

// #define QuickCharge // 25kW chargers - ONLY FOR AC PFC unit

// #define DCDC // module is used in DC-DC mode (buck or boost)
// #define DCDC_BUCK // the voltage readings are swapped

// sensor constants - moved them to here as they are changed very often depending on what unit we have
// 1M in low-voltage units (up to 150V)
// 2M in SmartCharge-12000 standard units
// 2.4M in older PFCdirect units
// 3M in newer PFCdirect units
// 5-6M in high voltage units (only on high-side)
const float upperR0_mV=2000.; 
const float upperR0_bV=2000.; 
// ===================================================================================================


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have sent Valery a list of the parts I might need. My immediate goal will be to become familiar with the circuitry and especially the Arduino and display. I want to be able to test each board separately and document how I do so, and then build a low power version of the charger for testing. 

I am currently working on a project using PIC12F1822s for PWM drive of DC relays, and I have seen how the EMI from driving the coils with 24VDC PWM at 2.5 kHz and a few amps peak current can cause problems, so I can imagine what it could be like with 300 VDC and 40 amps at 10-15 kHz.

It is probably a very long and difficult project to port the code from the Arduino to a PIC, as there are 1750 lines of code, but much of that is comments, and it is written in C so it may mostly require some macros to redefine some of the Arduino-specific functions and variables. There may also be library functions that are not included in the charger-specific code.

I have taken a cursory look at the code and a few things may need further investigation. I see that the ADC conversion takes 100 mSec which may be a problem if a frequency higher than the present 4 kHz timer interrupt is used for ADC timing. The PWM frequency can be set from about 8 kHz to 20 kHz. Just getting familiar with things at this point...

One of the cardinal rules of switching power supply design is to know the inductor current at all times and being able to react to it if it exceeds the point of saturation. This typically needs cycle-by-cycle control, which is difficult using a 100 mSec ADC that also reads other parameters. The only current measurement seems to be the filtered output to the battery pack, so it appears that the PWM control must rely on other means. It is premature at this point to analyze the operation very much, but I want to observe the behavior of the software PID loop and see how it works, and I may try some other design variations of software and hardware depending on what I find.

Ultimately, I may repurpose this to be a DC-DC boost converter or a variable DC power supply or even a PWM DC motor controller. I really don't need a high power battery charger at this time. Another possibility would be to obtain the additional parts needed and just build a complete functional charger, perhaps with some modifications, and send it to someone who can use it as originally intended and see if any changes I may have made work better.

I also have other projects, so this may take some time, and no guarantees of progress or success.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

good stuff, Paul.

current limiting on PFC stage is done cycle-by-cycle by the iR1153 pFC chip. However, we are operating far below that limit so in all practical situations it does not really kick in. 

current limiting on buck side is done by hardware limiter based on LM211 comparator that is working off the battery current sensor. It is not cycle by cycle but typical latency is ~10 microseconds which works out to less than one cycle. 

PID loop operates on the same current reading as buck stage but as you pointed out it's measured only every 250 microseconds. However, because the system does not depend on this measurement for overcurrent protection, the frequency of measurement is not critical. In fact, until V14, we did not even have a PID loop - the duty increment / decrement was simple +1 / -1 in the main loop() function. The reason for adding proper PID loop control was the need for relatively rapid (~50A/second) ramp rates for our CHAdeMO implementations.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Paul - I would _really_ encourage you to keep this in Arduino domain. This would allow people to pick up and build on top of your work.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> You should have posted it here or emailed me as soon as you saw the issue, Robin.
> 
> Here are what the switches should be set to for a 12kW V14 unit:
> 
> ...


I did change the switches you show, the code doesn't compile and has 50+ errors. I left it at that and stopped working on it because I had to complete everything else on my car for an EV car show. The EV car show was great, I was the only conversion in a fleet of OEM's volts/leafs/teslas etc.

I'll get back to the charger soon and give you proper feedback on what doesn't work if it hasn't already been sorted out.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

RWAudio: You should probably send Val an email (or even post here) what errors you are getting. Merely saying 50+ doesn't help to narrow it down unfortunately. Also, are you using the 022 version of the Arduino IDE? You can still download it: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/OldSoftwareReleases

I really like the Arduino IDE in some ways because it does allow people to get into programming who probably would otherwise be turned off by the complicated IDE that most programmers use. But, sometimes the Arduino IDE can be a bit of a pain and sometimes the version you use is really important.

My other guess is: have you installed all of the libraries that the project uses? I know it's got libraries for things like the LCD display and such. You will need those to compile.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> Paul - I would _really_ encourage you to keep this in Arduino domain. This would allow people to pick up and build on top of your work.


I'd suggest that as well. Not only is the Arduino IDE more accessible but the AtMega chips are faster (per clock) too. It's not abnormal to be using 20-40MHz crystals with a PIC chip because it only executes an instruction every four clocks (The 8 bit PICs anyway... the higher end PIC24 and PIC32 chips don't have this problem I don't think). I've done quite a bit of development for PIC, AVR, and ARM and I can tell you that ARM is by far the most fun (and complicated) but AVR isn't too bad either (especially not with something like the Arduino library). But, sometimes you go with what you know. If one knows PIC programming but has no experience with AVR then maybe that would bias opinion.

So, I'd still suggest that Paul stick with AVR. The most compelling reason is that the code already runs on AVR so why take the time to port it? Instead play with the existing code and ideas will be easier/faster to try out. Most all of it is in C anyway and someone who programs in C should be able to modify the code whether that C code is running on AVR, PC, MAC, PIC, or a dead badger (did you know you can install linux on a dead badger?)


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> dude, you know what. enough with this. who do you think you are? you can't tell a transistor from a voltage regulator, you think that a diode and rectifier are completely different things and mock ME for using those terms interchangeably (if you need to refresh your memory, read back a few pages here), and then you shit all over what my company does here. You know what, show me what YOU did for the community.
> 
> I am not interested in any further business with you.





Lol your pissed and have no reason ... I bought a kit ... Cant follow instructions because there insufficient ... Bought complete boards ... Got them but wrongly built ... Sent one back ... 3 months later still no board ????!! 

Now i want bare boards and your service still sucks because after three weeks i still dont have an invoice .... Wtf lol ? 

As for the wrong name on parts ?? I remember calling something a rectifier and you complaining you didnt know what i was talking about lol same goes for the wrong diode bridge i got with the kit ... ? One month to find out you screwed up ... That i dont care ...

The service when you buy things is what im bitching about ... 

3 weeks ive been waiting for a driver board in parts ... Lol still no invoice ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Eitherway valery ... Im sending pstechpaul the control board tommorow ... After that ill start looking back into the charger slowly ... Ill figure it out myself and with others im sure but the same stands your services are crap ... And ill make sure people stay aware of how crappy emw is ....


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

CKidder said:


> RWAudio: You should probably send Val an email (or even post here) what errors you are getting. Merely saying 50+ doesn't help to narrow it down unfortunately. Also, are you using the 022 version of the Arduino IDE? You can still download it: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/OldSoftwareReleases
> 
> I really like the Arduino IDE in some ways because it does allow people to get into programming who probably would otherwise be turned off by the complicated IDE that most programmers use. But, sometimes the Arduino IDE can be a bit of a pain and sometimes the version you use is really important.
> 
> My other guess is: have you installed all of the libraries that the project uses? I know it's got libraries for things like the LCD display and such. You will need those to compile.


It's good to see you here, we need more experienced people in the game. I was tight on time and wasn't able to go any further when it didn't work. I will load the code again and give Val a proper bunch of info when I can, I haven't because you are exactly correct saying 50 errors and "it doesn't work" doesn't help much.
I have my arduino IDE set up, I've loaded half a dozen versions of code on this thing with varying levels of functionality.


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## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi all,

I use an Elithion BMS with the EMW charger. Many times whether I stop the charger or the BMS stops the charger, I get a fault on the BMS that says the current sensor is installed backwards. I know that is not the case, and I never got this fault with my Elcon charger.

Does anyone have an idea of why this is happening?

My charger is non-PFC, v.12, I think.

Thanks,

Brandon


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)




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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)




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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

ok so to get started on some serious work .... lets see if you can see differences between my built per instruction board and valerys emw built board ... 


there are Many at least 4 ... 

the main one which concerns me the most is on the back side where the arduino is ... middle right of the board . I have a resistor and a diode one on top of each other ( fifth picture) 6 and 7th picture is a zoom on the area of my board versus emws board ... emw has 2 resistors and one diode put into a y pattern as if it was a y 3 phase transformer ... ?? didn't see that in the instructions weird ?? ....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

pstechpaul ... your control board is wrapped and in a box ready to go ... ill do my best to send it out tomorrow but it all depends on how well work goes :s ... im guessing you will receive it within 2 weeks ... I wont send it with any tracking or anything at all since emw proves tracking info is not worth the extra money because things still get lost even if there tracked and called in as received ... still haven't figured that one out ??? ... lol


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

valerun said:


> Come by our San Carlos shop. We will figure it out. Evenings or weekends are best. I believe you have the address.
> 
> Thx.


Thanks for taking the time to fix it for me. As always, it was great talking to you...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sholland said:


> Thanks for taking the time to fix it for me. As always, it was great talking to you...


no problem. Just so everyone gets the benefit of learning from others, posting a short summary here. 

Zero output current was due to PFC stage not boosting the voltage to 380VDC. sholland's pack is 170V so 120V rectified is not enough to push any current into the pack. 

We connected a scope to PFC driver output - the PWM was there. We determined the issue to be a failed PFC IGBT. My hypothesis was that the reason was exactly what we discussed here a few pages ago - Miller-induced spike on AC connect. We have installed the proposed fixes (dual 18V 5W zeners, 10nF cap, and 2.7k resistor across Gate-Emitter of both IGBTs).

The charger is operational now. I am sure sholland will give us an update as it goes.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

V14.5 is posted on https://drive.google.com/a/emotorwerks.com/?tab=mo#folders/0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE

CV termination is now safe - previously observed overvoltages of up to 3% of the pack voltage (introduced in V14 firmware rewrite) have now been fixed. Also, implemented proper input and output relay control for precharge on both sides. 

Outstanding item: CV stage gets stuck at zero-current, zero-duty state indefinitely. Safe but annoying. Will be fixed in V14.6.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> ok so to get started on some serious work .... lets see if you can see differences between my built per instruction board and valerys emw built board ...


LOL just don't burst from all the self-importance ;-)


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> V14.5 is posted on https://drive.google.com/a/emotorwerks.com/?tab=mo#folders/0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE
> 
> CV termination is now safe - previously observed overvoltages of up to 3% of the pack voltage (introduced in V14 firmware rewrite) have now been fixed. Also, implemented proper input and output relay control for precharge on both sides.
> 
> Outstanding item: CV stage gets stuck at zero-current, zero-duty state indefinitely. Safe but annoying. Will be fixed in V14.6.


v14.6 is posted. Proper CV step termination. 

To my knowledge, there are no outstanding issues. 

FYI photo of the 12K unit with precharge relays and experimental potted inductors attached.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> the main one which concerns me the most is on the back side where the arduino is ... middle right of the board . I have a resistor and a diode one on top of each other ( fifth picture) 6 and 7th picture is a zoom on the area of my board versus emws board ... emw has 2 resistors and one diode put into a y pattern as if it was a y 3 phase transformer ... ?? didn't see that in the instructions weird ?? ....


do you even know what that circuit does? ;-)

Anyway, page 36 in V12/13 PFC instructions: https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...N-GHv85InmnCtq7k5OKz6l6RijqqVGUo3uvpSM2k/edit

the PCB 'glitch' that required this hack was fixed in V14 hardware release (that is shipping now). 

V14 manual at https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...fWUuQaBlZjY0Bpl32SmvJy8rTZgg2p0Nn8MAndeE/edit


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

love those Enerdel batteries BTW - full charge at 3C (95A into a 32AH module) and could not detect any temp rise...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> do you even know what that circuit does? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love how you reference a pfc document build for a non pfc unit .... Cant bitch to much i suppose since you actually toke time to see what was going on .... Thanks ... 
as to finding out why the difference no i didnt take time to see what the circuit does lol i had 1 hour of free time yesterday ... That included a well deserved 30 min ev drive  ...


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> v14.6 is posted. Proper CV step termination.
> 
> To my knowledge, there are no outstanding issues.
> 
> FYI photo of the 12K unit with precharge relays and experimental potted inductors attached.


Thanks Valery I'll give it a try, and let you know how it goes. Thank you for addressing the problems, sorry I couldn't provide more immediate and defined issues when I found them.


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## sholland (Jan 16, 2012)

valerun said:


> no problem. Just so everyone gets the benefit of learning from others, posting a short summary here.
> 
> Zero output current was due to PFC stage not boosting the voltage to 380VDC. sholland's pack is 170V so 120V rectified is not enough to push any current into the pack.
> 
> ...


Hi Valery,

Just a quick update... I plugged in this morning on the Schneider level 2 EVSEs at work, and it only gets detected as 120V. As a result, I had to adjust the max input current to allow it to still charge at level 2 levels. It doesn't really affect me too much other than it displays incorrectly.

I wonder if the custom firmware changes you did for me before to properly detect 120V (when it was always displaying 240V) have been upset by the mods made yesterday...

In any case, just FYI, and perhaps down the road it can be fixed in a future firmware update.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> they diversify and spread themselves too thin to make any single thing work.


3 years ago, we were trying to produce and sell:
1. EV Conversions
2. EV Conversion kits
3. DC Chargers
4. EV Instrumentation
5. Battery packs

today, we are doing:
1. DC Chargers
2. AC Charging stations

all other products have been discontinued exactly in order to focus more on the Charging systems alone. We stopped doing conversions, no longer offer kits, stopped offering EV Dash, discontinued non-PFC SmartCharge, etc.

That said, of course there are more projects that resources. I apologize for the inconvenience this might cause - I only hope that the benefit to the community is higher than the pain ;-)

V


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> 3 years ago, we were trying to produce and sell:
> 1. EV Conversions
> 2. EV Conversion kits
> 3. DC Chargers
> ...


I was not aware of those changes, I think that's a good step towards moving EMW in the right direction. Good luck! I would pay more (within reason) for a 12kw charger that had the build quality and refinement of a Brusa.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

sholland said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> Just a quick update... I plugged in this morning on the Schneider level 2 EVSEs at work, and it only gets detected as 120V. As a result, I had to adjust the max input current to allow it to still charge at level 2 levels. It doesn't really affect me too much other than it displays incorrectly.
> 
> ...


Thanks for update. 

I have taken a quick look. You are right - under high load, input voltage is reported lower than it really is. This is happening due to deepening 'dips' of the input rectified voltage as the charger gets loaded. Before V14.4, it did not matter. In V14.4, a change in CV stage transition handling resulted in the behavior you have just described. Not harmful but annoying. 

Fixed in V14.7 - just posted at https://drive.google.com/a/emotorwerks.com/?tab=mo#folders/0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE. The fix is to use the value measured at the start of charger.

Actual change:
from (circa line 1377):
------
mainsV=read_mV(); // read input voltage only infrequentry

#ifdef CHECKMAINS 
// check mains
if(mainsV<minMains) {
delay(2000);
printClrMsg(MSG_LOSTIN, 5000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
return 1; // error
}
#endif
---------
to
---------


#ifdef CHECKMAINS 
// check mains
if(read_mV()<minMains) {
delay(2000);
printClrMsg(MSG_LOSTIN, 5000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
return 1; // error
}
#endif
------------

There is a side effect for DC-DC applications feeding from a declining-voltage power source (i.e. battery) - the actual input current will [slightly] increase above your preset input current limit as the battery voltage sags. Should not be a major factor in most applications. 

V


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## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

valerun said:


> 3 years ago, we were trying to produce and sell:
> 1. EV Conversions
> 2. EV Conversion kits
> 3. DC Chargers
> ...


So you are no longer offering EV Dash? 

I noted that it was not on your store site for awhile but it appears to be back again.

Is this product completely discontinued or will Dimitri continuing to sell them?


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> 3 years ago, we were trying to produce and sell:
> 1. EV Conversions
> 2. EV Conversion kits
> 3. DC Chargers
> ...


I think it's worth mentioning that a lot of people probably don't really appreciate all the work it takes to bring this stuff to market. It can be incredibly time consuming and expensive to bring even small projects to market. It's a constant battle to try to get all of your projects done all the while wanting to do so much more. I'd have a whole lot more projects going if I won the lotto and got a few clones of me built.

The best thing and worst thing about open source projects is that they tend to end up like giant public beta tests. The things you release end up being beta tested by several people - the end users of the product. Sometimes things work great, sometimes they don't. Revisions come and go. The GEVCU project is not that especially old and is already on revision 5.2 of the hardware. There have been hundreds of software revisions.

Speaking of the code for the GEVCU project, there are a lot of times where the WIP branch is either broken or acts funny. Occasionally either I'll commit to master with something that actually works or Jack will come out with an official version and flash it onto 50 units then sell them. But, development of new things can be messy. In commercial projects often nobody sees a thing until it is "done" for some definition of done. In open source projects people tend to see all the in-between. Sometimes they get bitten. Sometimes they get really cool stuff before hardly anyone else gets the chance. Open source projects with open source hardware can be kind of scary to create. The creator is responsible for everything - the hardware, the software, the documentation. And that means that everyone knows where their fingers are destined to point should anything be out of place. That's not particularly enjoyable at times. 

So, I really sympathize with how difficult these things can be. I do think it was probably a good thing to concentrate on a couple of projects. It seems like EMW has always been associated with high powered chargers in my mind so concentrating on just that seems to make sense. 

Thank you, Val, for the time and effort you and the rest of EMW have put into chargers.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have taken a closer look at the V14 PCB schematics. They are a great improvement over the V12-13. I have some suggestions and concerns.

1. The problem with the voltage sag causing incorrect mains voltage readings can be corrected to some extent by changing the software to read peak voltage over one or more cycles. This will not be affected by the ripple on the input DC capacitor. Of course the problem remains with using an optocoupler as an analog voltage sensor. We have discussed this before.

2. Having two 200 VDC capacitors in series rather than single 450V may cause problems if they have different internal parallel (leakage) resistance, so their voltages may not be equal. This could be solved easily by tying all the series connection points together, and adding a bleeder resistor across each half.

3. The use of a copper jumper (R5-2) for overcurrent protection may be an issue. The actual value will be extremely low and highly variable due to its short length (2") and imprecise wire size (#10-#12). #10 has 0.001 ohms/ft at 25C and #12 has 0.0016. A 2" length will be 16 or 27 uOhms, which will be about 8.3-13 mV at 50 amps. The peak current sensor of the IR1153 is about 500 mV, which corresponds to about 2500 amps. So I doubt this will provide any effective protection.

I'll look at various parts of the design when I receive the circuit boards, and I'll provide what I think may be flaws or concerns. I may be overly critical, but I want to play the "Devil's advocate", as it is better IMHO to make false criticism (which you can explain and dismiss), rather than allow a real problem to go unnoticed.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I have taken a closer look at the V14 PCB schematics. They are a great improvement over the V12-13. I have some suggestions and concerns.
> 
> 1. The problem with the voltage sag causing incorrect mains voltage readings can be corrected to some extent by changing the software to read peak voltage over one or more cycles. This will not be affected by the ripple on the input DC capacitor. Of course the problem remains with using an optocoupler as an analog voltage sensor. We have discussed this before.
> 
> ...



I shipped the board out today  ... You should receive it shortly the lady at the post office said about 5 - 7 days .... 

Hopefully it wont get lost in the mail ... Or worse lost when it arrives at your place but badly placed lol ... ( joke im having fun at emws expense ) ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

crackerjackz said:


> I shipped the board out today  ... You should receive it shortly the lady at the post office said about 5 - 7 days ....
> 
> Hopefully it wont get lost in the mail ... Or worse lost when it arrives at your place but badly placed lol ... ( joke im having fun at emws expense ) ...


Looking forward to its arrival. Flat rate shipping in the US includes tracking, and I think it would be worth a few dollars when the contents are valuable. I've received things from Canada a few times with no problems, and it certainly should not get lost once it arrives at my door. I'll let you know when it arrives and I'll do a quick overview of what I find, including some clear close-ups of possible problem areas such as you tried to show (but I can't make out just what has been done).

I have also requested some blank or defective/junk boards and some components from Valery, and I hope they arrive soon as well. I'm glad you are trying to be patient and respectful in your recent comments. I can understand your frustration as well as Valery's predicament and I hope I can help make this product more reliable, along with learning something about the Arduino and high power switching designs.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Huh, strange... I set up small charger and start it. It suddenly worked fine. I set up 15A output and it worked at 14.5A to the 0.2A precision. Normaly when my large charger works there s cca 3 to 5A variation in reading. Hm I will add a fan and try some more.
> ...............................................................................
> After a while i touched control board and immediately inductor gave out noise, LCD froze but PWM was ok. Huh, it seems this was caused by a set of 230AC wires that drives my contactor. They come in driver board relay and leave for contactor, all AC triggering. Hm...
> 
> ...


EDIT2: I figured why charger seemed to pause and freeze during charging. It seems input cable dimension is important more than we think. While i used 0,75mm2 just for testing charger stopped on its own and LCD seemed to freeze etc... BUT when i used 2,5mm2 those problems stopped at once. 
So for 30A NONPFC single phase charger i use 3x 2,5mm2 input cables and 2x 6mm2 output cables. A bit oversize but it works good. 

A


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> So you are no longer offering EV Dash?
> 
> I noted that it was not on your store site for awhile but it appears to be back again.
> 
> Is this product completely discontinued or will Dimitri continuing to sell them?


Shane, see my latest posts in 2 threads related to EV Display, right here on the first page of this sub forum. Everything is explained there.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Valery

I have another question. 
I noticed the tx and rx ports on arduino chip are not used. Could they be used to communicate with GSM module to send simple commands to send SMS of charger status? 
I think it would be simple to insert conditionals in code where major events happen. This would then report any anomalies...

It would be very helpful to know the status of charger when waiting for charge.

I found this GSM module
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281394256979?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

tnx

Arber


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> I have another question.
> I noticed the tx and rx ports on arduino chip are not used. Could they be used to communicate with GSM module to send simple commands to send SMS of charger status?
> ...


Sure, I personally don't see any reason that this could not happen - with 2 major buts... 

Big but 1:
The thing is, serial port sending in Arduino is blocking. That's a bad thing. When you try to send something over the serial port, say "This is a test string" it will literally send T, then wait until it is sent and send h then wait then send i, all the while waiting around doing nothing. Interrupts can probably fire in the mean time but the sketch itself essentially freezes. Thus, too much serial port traffic is a bad thing. Now, it is possible to implement serial port interrupts for transmission. I have done this in the past. 

Big but 2:
It is my understanding that the current control boards keep the processor quite busy and use a lot of RAM and ROM- it is only an 8 bit processor after all (16MHz I believe). Adding SMS output to the code might either take away too much from the processing it is doing and/or fill up RAM or ROM too much. So, maybe it isn't possible for a MEGA256. Now, there are plans for using an Arduino Due in place of the Mega. The Due is 12x faster and has significantly more RAM and ROM. It also has all sorts of other great things like DMA for communications. So, there'd be no problem at all keeping up.

So, sure, it's probably a good idea. Keep in mind that it is an open source project so if you wanted it badly enough you could always contribute the code to the project (assuming you are a programmer... I don't know your level of programming knowledge.) That's the great thing about open source.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I don't see buying a sim card plan for tiny bits of data on a home based unit, but you can always send it wired or wirelessly to a nearby computer (or android phone via $5 bluetooth module), possibly even hack an old wrt54g router to log the data and xmit it (i.e. ddwrt) or serve up a status page, they have a serial port and are good at wifi and run linux (and often available at goodwill for $5), lots of options. You can send an email to yourself (or to your phone #) if it detects something unusual.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

dcb said:


> I don't see buying a sim card plan for tiny bits of data on a home based unit, but you can always send it wired or wirelessly to a nearby computer (or android phone via $5 bluetooth module), possibly even hack an old wrt54g router to log the data and xmit it (i.e. ddwrt) or serve up a status page, they have a serial port and are good at wifi and run linux (and often available at goodwill for $5), lots of options. You can send an email to yourself (or to your phone #) if it detects something unusual.


No no, of course not. This would not serve as comm for every code glitch. 
I would use it as status reporting tool. It would be very useful if i was on a meeting and wanted to know charger status before i leave.

OTOH maybe i could use another arduino connected to charger DB9 output and gather the information. When requested from GSM module this second processor would output in txt format. 
Also when EOC signal from charger would be lost it would report end of charge.
Also when 12V signal from chargers PSU would be lost it would report AC line fault etc...

I have the EV display unit V2 and i made pwm circuit for in dash fuel meter. It outputs certain duty to show 100% to 0% fuel. This signal could also be taken to have aproximate SOC reporting trough SMS... 


A


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

ok, but it isn't clear to me how that module sends data without a sim card and provider (monthly plan), am I missing something?

Are you wanting like text alerts on your phone? does your phone provider have an email to text gateway?

Is this charger in your vehicle I assume?

If it had a decent wifi radio, could you ad-hoc to it from your meeting location to check status? how about some other radio based comm (i.e. hacked 1 mile walkie talkie, or wwan?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

dcb said:


> ok, but it isn't clear to me how that module sends data without a sim card and provider (monthly plan), am I missing something?
> 
> Are you wanting like text alerts on your phone? does your phone provider have an email to text gateway?
> 
> ...


Well i dont see a problem here. I would simply use a prepaid SIM and unlock it. Then i would have to preprogram arduino to output AT commands and txt. I think i will first try to use it with arduino and a simple switch .

A


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Well i dont see a problem here. I would simply use a prepaid SIM and unlock it.



I've heard of unlocking prepaid phones (I've done it, go phones are easy), but I don't know how to get them to communicate anything without paying a provider for a connection. Am I still missing something?


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

dcb said:


> I don't see buying a sim card plan for tiny bits of data on a home based unit, but you can always send it wired or wirelessly to a nearby computer (or android phone via $5 bluetooth module), possibly even hack an old wrt54g router to log the data and xmit it (i.e. ddwrt) or serve up a status page, they have a serial port and are good at wifi and run linux (and often available at goodwill for $5), lots of options. You can send an email to yourself (or to your phone #) if it detects something unusual.


For those of us that cant part at home (I for one live in London and can only dream to have private parking, let alone space to charge), I see some market to just integrate a cheap SIM900 module with a £5 prepay sim card.

Of course using text messaging would make things way easier than using a data service


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

dcb said:


> I've heard of unlocking prepaid phones (I've done it, go phones are easy), but I don't know how to get them to communicate anything without paying a provider for a connection. Am I still missing something?


He's mentioning using a prepaid SIM card with credit previously (pre-paid) added. Pretty common where I live.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

cts_casemod said:


> He's mentioning using a prepaid SIM card with credit previously (pre-paid) added. Pretty common where I live.


Ah, I see, free outgoing texts, that could be useful in a car...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

dcb said:


> Ah, I see, free outgoing texts, that could be useful in a car...


Well i dont care even if texts are not free. The point is not to only get text if something goes wrong, but to send a text like #STATUS and the gizmo would reply with AMPxxx, Vxxx, AHxxx even xxx%SOC!!!

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There are PICs that have Ethernet which can connect to your router, and you can access the device as a web page. It could also use WiFi, and the charger could use Bluetooth to connect to your home computer or portable device. I did this a couple of years ago with a $99 demo board and my friend in Oklahoma was able to access it via the internet. It can be set up to read data and/or control things remotely. I would assume that you could set up a PHP script on the server where the web page resides and have it send an email if there is a change in some parameter that needs attention. There are also probably various ways to send a text message, or even use a land line to call your cell phone via modem and activate a voice synthesizer or prerecorded messages.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Valery
> 
> I have another question.
> I noticed the tx and rx ports on arduino chip are not used. Could they be used to communicate with GSM module to send simple commands to send SMS of charger status?
> ...


Valery

Can you tell me more of the DB9 port on control board? It seems it is there to output signals outside from the charger. Why use this?

Also how do you connect TX RX in paralel with LCD? I see no provision on control board to do so. 
I taught of using another arduino pro mini to receive serial report string from charger and on demand send txt trough GSM module. Does TX line automatically send comm string even if LCD is active?

This other arduino could also be used to switch off LCD and send "stop" command etc...

Hm, i thought of another thing...
If i build another Arduino and connect it trough TX/RX it could be used with its own LCD and GSM module. That way i could do everything i want and still had display active...
tnx

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I will just let it be known that I have received the control PCB assy from CrackerJax but I have not even heard back fro Valery about my offer to pay shipping and a reasonable added cost for other boards and parts. I may have time in a week or so to do some inspection, testing and analysis of this board. I was a bit surprised at how small and simple it is. The soldering could be a bit better but it seems OK, and there is some flux residue which should be cleaned. I noticed that there are some pads that seem to have been milled out (C43, C45, C46, C47, C48, C51), and the layout seems to have parts crowded in some areas, and some are not well labeled.

Valery, I want to help. Can you let me know what you can send me and how much I should pay for what I need? Or at least let me know if the email address I used is OK?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Emw drilled those pads ... Board issues ???


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

If i was emw you would get a free charger just for your help so far ,... Just saying :s


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am starting to examine the "Universal Control Board V12" I received from CrackerJackz and I'm having trouble correlating it to the schematic(s) and figuring out how to hook it up to DC power and observe the display and operate the key switches.

The Version 12 schematic does not show the SIP connectors or the DB9 connector (also unlabeled on the PCB). It is labeled J3 on the V14 schematic, but pin 1 (labeled TX1) has no connection, and pin 2 (labeled RX1) connects to R5 and the end pin of an unlabeled 6 position SIP connector. This appears to be labeled "V" on the block "To Driver Board". This is shown as J3-4 on the V14 schematic.

This is very confusing and I'm just getting started. Can anyone let me know if this is actually a V12 board, and if the V12 schematic dated 09/23/2013 is the latest and most complete documentation for the design? I'll do a bit more on this and hopefully I'll be able to apply 12VDC to the specified pins on the other unlabeled 6-position SIP connector that has:

1. +12 in
2. oldOut
3. GND
4. Aout
5. Bout
6. +5Vout

This seems to correspond to J7 on the V14 schematic.

There are many unlabeled components on the board I have... 

This shows some of the components missing reference designations:










This shows one of the counterbored pads:










The following view shows some disconnected copper shapes that should be part of the ground plane. And some of these are just barely connected by thin pieces of copper:










Also notice that there are thermal spokes on pin 5 of the DB9 connector bottom, but on the top, there are none, so it may be difficult to solder.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

The schematics i had when building the charger were the pfc schematics ... Since schematics for the non pfc version 13 driver board do not exist lol ... Imagine how confusing that was ... Better yet there are no indtructions at all for the non pfc unit and what little schematics there are are usually wrong ... 

I ended up looking at the pcb files and undelayers to follow the plans when debugging ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Its esrly morning here now getting the kids ready ect ... Ill do my best to clarify what i can clarify tonight ... Gotta start again at some point :s although im dreeding the instructions and files again ... Eurgh :s 

your 12 volts goes to + 12 in and gnd in ... 

That board then sends the 5 volts dc to the driver board ... 

Mv and v are the voltage measurement signals from the contreversial pc817 chip ... From memory ..


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

When i was building the non pfc unit i was told by valery to look at the pfc unit instructions and vidoes ... Im not sure how i was ever suppose to succeed building it without even proper schematics / no build videos / no proper board mounting instructions / no driver board information whatsoever !! ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

The worst is when i restart looking into things tonight after no more than 4 5 months ... My boards are now completly obsolete lol ... New versions of everything came out ... Lol fun fun fun ...


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## janzicek (Jul 27, 2013)

Hello Rastus... I also have the Elithion BMS and i have noticed that whenever there is a power cycle of the BMS it will set that fault if there is any charge current at all. I had an issue with a loose connection, whenever I would hit a pothole while regen braking the BMS would set that fault. Is there anything in your setup that could cause BMS power cycle or reset during charge?

Best Regards,
Josh



Rastusmalinus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I use an Elithion BMS with the EMW charger. Many times whether I stop the charger or the BMS stops the charger, I get a fault on the BMS that says the current sensor is installed backwards. I know that is not the case, and I never got this fault with my Elcon charger.
> 
> ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have installed ExpressPCB so I might be able to look at the PCB layout files and determine the identification of some of the unlabeled components on the board. I have the V14 board loaded now and it appears to be much the same as the V12 I have, but when I select the "mystery" components (transistors) there is no indication of their reference designation or other properties. On the V12 board I found a transistor where the center pin (base for PN2222A) is connected to an un-named connector pin labeled "fan", and the V12 schematic shows an un-named transistor with its collector going to "FAN" as well as to an un-named diode to ground. Possibly this transistor is a different type with a ECB pinout instead of EBC, but I don't know and there seems to be no way to tell. The V14 PCB has the same connection.

The V14 schematic shows this transistor as S9 and it is a TO-220 logic level MOSFET with the usual GDS pinout, but the part outline is the same as for the TO-92 and if you use the flat side for the tab, the MOSFET would be reversed. Hmmm. That must be some powerful fan to need a 100 ampere $2 MOSFET to drive it!? There is another one in the schematic, S7, which connects to D5-HC, whatever that is, on J10-4. And these are all connected to "analog ground", which should be reserved only for low level and sensitive signals. 

I am beginning to understand why so many folks have been having problems with these boards. The circuits are very simple, but the schematics and labeling are extremely confusing and incomplete. I would have thought the V14 board would be much better, but it's not. This is very likely due to the use of a hobby grade schematic and PCB package rather than even a low end semi-professional package like Eagle. I know that Valery has finally started using a better package for newer designs, and hopefully that will improve the new products, but I am quite dismayed by the quality of these boards, and the design itself.

*Valery*, I still have not heard from you in response to my email of September 25. I know you are busy with other things, but I am offering to _help people_ with the problems they are having with your kits, _at no charge_, and I'm actually willing to _pay_ you for this "privilege". I can fully understand the frustration that Crackerjackz has had, and if I had actually paid a thousand dollars for such a kit and experienced such problems and no reply after two weeks, I would not be amused.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Paul, I have all the v12 schematics and a working control board. Using Express PCB helped allot in decyphering connections. Let me know if you need anything.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think the schematics I have for the V12 are the latest for the board I have, but the V14 schematics are somewhat easier to follow. It's difficult to determine what changes were actually made.

After playing with ExpressPCB I found that I could double-click on a component and it would open up a "properties" dialog where the reference designator can be entered, modified, and hidden. I found one of the transistors was assigned S9, but it was hidden. When I tried to unhide it, it was reported that there was already another S9, although it was only a warning and duplicate assignments are allowed. I was also able to change it to Q9, which is a standard reference designator for transistors and similar devices. S9 would be used for a switch.

I ran the netlist check and it immediately found one of many errors showing "stubs" or traces that connect only to one pin. Also, I was unable to produce a netlist from either the schematic or the PCB. The connections do not appear to be associated with net labels. And I found that some of the SIP connectors are actually just rows of pads with lines drawn around them to look like a component.

The more I look, the more I am dismayed by the design and the PCB layout and the documentation. I should be able to apply 12V power to the board soon, and hopefully see the display light up and display something. But there's not much more I can do with just the control board.

Well, maybe I can get an Arduino programming module (FTDI bridge) and get some experience with that, which may be worthwhile on its own. But I doubt that I will go very far with that. I think the Arduino is a good hobby product and perhaps is simpler in some respects than a PIC, but the device used in the charger ("Pro Mini") appears to be one of the low end versions and has 16k flash and 1k SRAM. It is interesting that the "non-Pro" version has twice the memory. The "Pro" is $10 while the "Mini 05" is $34. The "Pro" might have the same memory, but the "CC" website shows the lower numbers:
http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardProMini


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

"S9" on the v12 control board is actually the LM7805, 5V regulator (TO-220 package).

Try to set aside "standard convention" and put yourself in the mindset of an inventive creator. I don't believe Val was focused on dotting all the 'i's and crossing all the 't's. Express PCB will be your friend if you get past that (trust me ) I never did use the netlist function, so don't know about that.

Express PCB has limited ground plane functions - which is why you'll find nice little disconnected islands everywhere. Having designed some boards in the past with EPCB, I know you can minimize this by keeping as many orthogonal traces as possible. These boards have many different angles, so that doesn't work well for EPCB's strengths.

Pin 11 is a PWM output to control a fan based on temperature using a PN2222. I think generally he used the TO-220 package pins since they are farther apart and easier to solder than the "standard" TO-92 package. At least, thats my impression. I have not looked at the v14 schematics or PCBs, so I'm not sure of the differences.

I also had the counter-bored holes on mine. It appeared to me that the double-layer board was incorrectly connected at those points. Which would have grounded most of them, creating dead shorts. The back side of the board is where the connections should have been made. The counterbore separates those legs from the ground planes. This can be verified in the EPCB files by turning on/off the top/bottom layers.

I have not investigated the serial connections, but I'm curious to see where arber333 goes with his texting scheme. I think it would be pretty neat to text my EV and have it reply with charging status. Pay-as-you-go GSM cards are quite economical.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There is another S9 between C49 and C50, which is the transistor for the fan.

I consider myself an inventive creator, or perhaps a creative inventor, but having almost 50 years of electronics experience including PCB design, and having done troubleshooting and repair on electronic equipment from vacuum tubes to ICs, this board is about the worst I have ever seen. I consider myself somewhat of an artist, and I take great care to design PCBs that are visually pleasing, clearly marked, and properly routed. Standard reference designations were well established by the mid 1960s, and ExpressPCB allows their use, so there is no excuse for "creativity" when it causes confusion and errors. And this is (apparently) the 14th revision of this board! 

I don't have the PCB files for V12, and I don't know how to find them on the website: http://www.emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics. If anyone has these or knows a URL where they may be found, please let me know.

Also on that same page is a picture of a wired control board but it has two DB9 connectors and no relays (RL1 and RL2). I have no idea what revision it is and the image info provides no clue.

I have some V9 schematics I downloaded some time ago. I don't know where they may be located now. If anyone has V9 or V12-13, unless you have already downloaded the documentation, it seems you are out of luck and totally on your own. 

Still no response from Valery. Oh well....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

.... I might just want to send you my charger as is .... Complete but not functional ... ( i dont have a functional igbt at the moment and until i verify my driver board theres no point in burning 100$ igbts  ) Obviously i would want it back ... But it would let you see the whole package ... Ill get informed on pricing ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Paul sorry i didnt get back to you yet with more details ... I had a fan issue in my ev and cold weather is here now  ... Ended up being a blown capacitor in the control unit in the counsel  .30$ fix ... Ill do my best tonight or else tommorow at the max ...


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## Weisheimer (May 11, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> ...I have some V9 schematics I downloaded some time ago. I don't know where they may be located now. If anyone has V9 or V12-13, unless you have already downloaded the documentation, it seems you are out of luck and totally on your own. ....


Try:

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> There is another S9 between C49 and C50, which is the transistor for the fan.


I see that now..except I took the labelling to mean the fan was under the label. I did not follow that trace across the pins to the other side. Its not populated on my board. And I see its another potential point of confusion.




PStechPaul said:


> I consider myself an inventive creator, or perhaps a creative inventor, but having almost 50 years of electronics experience including PCB design, and having done troubleshooting and repair on electronic equipment from vacuum tubes to ICs, this board is about the worst I have ever seen. I consider myself somewhat of an artist, and I take great care to design PCBs that are visually pleasing, clearly marked, and properly routed. Standard reference designations were well established by the mid 1960s, and ExpressPCB allows their use, so there is no excuse for "creativity" when it causes confusion and errors. And this is (apparently) the 14th revision of this board!


I like to think of it as pride in workmanship - and going that extra mile can surely make a huge difference in the end. Subsequent revisions "should" become more clear...not more confusing.




PStechPaul said:


> Also on that same page is a picture of a wired control board but it has two DB9 connectors and no relays (RL1 and RL2). I have no idea what revision it is and the image info provides no clue.


Not sure either....

I also discovered 2 flavours of the v12 software. One works, one doesn't. I did not spend the time trying to figure out the differences. If you need a working copy, let me know.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> There is another S9 between C49 and C50, which is the transistor for the fan.
> 
> I consider myself an inventive creator, or perhaps a creative inventor, but having almost 50 years of electronics experience including PCB design, and having done troubleshooting and repair on electronic equipment from vacuum tubes to ICs, this board is about the worst I have ever seen. I consider myself somewhat of an artist, and I take great care to design PCBs that are visually pleasing, clearly marked, and properly routed. Standard reference designations were well established by the mid 1960s, and ExpressPCB allows their use, so there is no excuse for "creativity" when it causes confusion and errors. And this is (apparently) the 14th revision of this board!
> 
> ...


guys, some of you really need to take some communication classes IMO. 

Your expectation of my quick and eager responses to your questions after you trash the work distributed for free for you to use is quite amusing ;-)


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> guys, some of you really need to take some communication classes IMO.
> 
> Your expectation of my quick and eager responses to your questions after you trash the work distributed for free for you to use is quite amusing ;-)


im sorry I missed the point were its free for me ... I bought a system "in parts" with instructions and step by step procedures to build ... 


no instructions for the driver board were ever given . no step by step documentation and not even proper schematics ... just saying ...

now im looking to finish my charger that im ungladly stuck with. I have a 1500 watt elcon which does marvels for now ... if I would have known emw would have been like this ... I would have invested in a 6,000 watt reliable elcon without even hesitating ... valery its sad you honestly don't see anything wrong with your services ??


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have been respectful and honest in my assessment. I am also impressed that you have been able to produce a charger that mostly does what it needs to do at a reasonable cost. But I also offer what is meant to be constructive criticism, as well as assistance for you, but more importantly, your customers, who are understandably confused and frustrated and angry because they need a charger, but have encountered problems.

I don't need a charger, and if I did, I would just build my own. I might have considered an EMW charger, but from what I have seen, it would be more trouble than it's worth. I understand that a one-person business as you seem to be, at least in terms of engineering and sales, may not be able to do everything with a high level of expertise and efficiency. I follow the generally accepted rule of selling your strong points and buying those that are weak. 

As for expecting a quick and eager response to my email, I simply requested a few boards (bare, working, or messed up), and some inexpensive components that I might not have in stock, so that I could put together a probably scaled-down version of the charger so that I could observe its operation (or malfunction) and provide better support for _your_ customers who have been having problems. And far from asking _you_ to pay _me_ for my professional services, I have offered to pay _you_ for shipping and a bit more for some of the less common parts. Why has it taken two weeks for you to reply to my email, and your complaint about my "communication skills" is your only response?

I have tried to support or at least explain your position when you became angry with Crackerjackz for complaining about unanswered emails and "lost" items and incorrectly built boards and missing parts and unclear documentation, but now that I have looked into this more deeply, I can fully understand his frustration and anger. He and I have communicated just fine, and he shipped his board as promised and I received it quickly enough. As for the documentation, I was unable to find what I needed for the previous V12-13 boards, and had to get a link from someone else. And I'm not even sure that it works. The EMW website is visually slick and attractive, but rather deficient in content and navigation.

At this point, I am tempted to combine the boards into one or two, using only those portions of your design that seem reasonable and necessary, and use my own ideas for other functions. I can keep the Arduino for compatibility, but I might also add a PIC which could replace it. I would make a complete and easy to follow schematic, which would be used to make a PCB which would be laid out better and would pass 100% DRC (design rule checking) for connectivity and clearance - no chance of shorted pads or tracks. From what I see, and from past experience, this would take about 2-3 days of work, and I could submit the Gerbers and have 3-5 boards in my hands about 10 days later, for about $150. About a day to stuff (including many SMT components), and then a step-by-step power-up and connection to external components.

But I really don't have the time or monetary incentive or need to do this. I'd rather work on other projects for which I have immediate use. And I'm not really a magnetics expert, and Valery is probably better at that than I am. But I have done some lower power designs, and I want to make a DC-DC converter of at least 1000W, and there is much similarity in the designs. So, realistically, I may be able to design and build that, but with optional functionality to work as a charger.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

paul to be honest I feel like just sending you my charger as is ... I know it has a blown IGBT , I have a spare dc to dc converter and igbt driver . 

I just don't have the patience nor the wanting to deal with emws lack of information for this charger ... your skills and competence outserpace mine ... my driver board issue could very well be a dumb minor mistake and maybe it would hardly take you any time to find ... if you would be willing to have a look at it ill sincerely look into how much it would be for me to send it to you ... obviously wether you could find the issue or not I would want it back ... I would pay for the shipping back ... let me now if you would be interested ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

couldn't even find the old documents on the emw website anymore  ..... 



http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/ good thing I had favorites on them ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Ill be posting the files on here paul as I redownload them because I have to restart from scratch because my laptop died on me 2 months ago ... Back to the old trusty computer ... 


Version 12-13 non-pfc directions ( note there are no driver board version v.13 instructions ... they just don't exist never have and probrebly never will .... ask emw why .... ??? ) 
http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V1...SmartCharge-12000_Non-PFC-V12-Build_Notes.pdf


funny how the pictures to help build the thing still date from version 9.5 ... http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/20 - Build images - non-PFC/driver boards/DSC_7391.JPG

schematics : ( non pfc schematics don't really exist what there is is a mix of non pfc and pfc in a confusing bundle to demystify filled with errors ... ) 

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/00 - Schematics/


bill of material : same applies here demistfy between non pfc and pfc ... 

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/03 - BOM/


PCB layouts .... 

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/05 - PCB Layouts/


firmware : heres where I had the most issues as when I started these steps there were whole libraires missing on the site ... after a week valery updated them after me hassling him that the program wouldn't compile ... ) is it complete now ??? ill see when I get there again ... 

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/30 - Firmware/


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:45 AM, cracker <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi valery i received the charger boards today but no igbt ??? The invoice you had sent me included an igbt ...

Also theres an issue on the driver board the connector pins arent on the proper side of the board :s it cannot fit in my charger the way they are ???... All connector pins should be mounted on the side of the parts not on the opposite ...

Shall i send it back to get fixed  my soldering skills are great but I cant so so about my desoldering thought  ... ???? Would you like me to try or just send it back to get fixed without taking any chances ...

I appreciate that you mounted the a3120 on a chip holder greatly though  ...

There are a few differences in harware mounting between what you sent me and what your instructions state but ill get back to that when everything works to figure out if my issue was caused by this ...

As always thanks ... Waiting on what to do with driver board ... And my new igbt 

Sent from my iPhone







Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:08:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Charger boards
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]


ah, you are of course absolutely right regarding IGBT! 

Your call re sending the boards back or fixing the connectors yourself - I am happy to do it for you and I need to ship your IGBT anyway...


Let me know.


Thanks,
Valery







On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:38 AM, cracker <[email protected]> wrote:

whats going on valery ???? haven't got my boards back theve been shipped your way for over a month not reasonnable in timing in my mind especially for just a minor repair of your mistake ?? also please don't forget to ship the igbt with the board this time  thanks .... 
from: the one and only!! [email protected] !!






Subject: Re: Charger boards
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

Hi! I haven't seen them yet. Which address have you used? 

Thanks,
Valery.











À : [email protected] 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 20 juillet 2014 23:01:07 À : [email protected] ([email protected]) 




.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P { padding:0px; } .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage { font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri; } from tracking info directly ...


electric motor werks
228 Hamilton ave
3rd floor
palo alto , ca
94301 , u.s 


tracking info says the package was received on 18th of june !!!! 

from: the one and only!! [email protected] !!







​ 
​


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:32:00 -0700
Subject: Re: charger board ...
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]


Oh bummer. This is a shared office space we use for our corporate mail. Seems like they failed to notify us of the package. I will drop by there tomorrow and have them find the package. 

Thanks,
Valery







> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 7:35 PM, cracker 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: 
> p.s it was sent in the same brown box you sent me it in .... please do 
> not forget the igbt after the repair is complet thank you .... 
> 
> 
> from: the one and only!! 
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> !! 
> 














De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 29 juillet 2014 13:11:13 À : Valery Miftakhov ([email protected]) 






??????? Any news , thanks 

from: the one and only!! [email protected] !!


________________________________


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

cracker 

2014-08-09 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : Valery Miftakhov 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 9 août 2014 17:44:49 À : Valery Miftakhov ([email protected]) 




What is going on valery ? Where is my repaired new board ? And new Igbt ? I've been patient enough ! Over Two months is ridiculous to stay polite !! 

Sent from my iPhone Valery Miftakhov Ajouter aux contacts 
2014-08-09 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/#À : cracker 



Afficher ce message... 







De : *Valery Miftakhov* ([email protected]) Cet expéditeur figure dans votre liste verte. Envoyé :9 août 2014 18:52:18À :cracker ([email protected]) 




Hi! The mailbox people could not locate the shipment and we are now making them to either find the package or reimburse us. 

I will send them another message now and will call again on Monday. 


Valery


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery Miftakhov 
Ajouter aux contacts 
2014-08-11 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : crackerjackz crac 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *Valery Miftakhov* ([email protected]) Cet expéditeur figure dans votre liste verte. Envoyé : 11 août 2014 18:45:09 À : crackerjackz crac ([email protected]) 




Hi - could you pls forward me the tracking info (number, who signed for it, etc) - see thread below for some details - as you can see, I sent my guy twice to their location and they couldn't find anything. At this point, we need the actual tracking info showing they received it. 

Sorry about all the trouble. 


I want to build you a replacement board and ship right away - can you re-confirm what was in the package and what we needed to do and what we needed to add to the package?


Thanks!
Valery.





Tracking number Lm801407588ca
Canadapost.ca .... Pics below 


There was a non Pfc emw 12000 version 13 driver board ! The correction was to solder the connection pins on the proper side with the components as this was not the case the pins were on the opposite side for I don't know what reason ... You were to ship back to me a new Igbt I paid for but you failed to send with the new driver board and control board ... My control board seemed fine ... Please make sure to socket the a3120 chip ( Igbt driver chip) so it can be easily swiped out... 


The car is complet I'll be refinishing the charger after my wedding august 30th ... I'll make sure to send you oscilloscope images of my power outputs before installing your tested and true control and driver boards as to confirm the rest of my charger is good to go ... 





cracker 
2014-08-13 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : Valery Miftakhov 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 13 août 2014 12:27:54 À : Valery Miftakhov ([email protected]) 




What's next ? ... 

Sent from my iPhone


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Weisheimer's link seems to have provided all available documentation for V11, V12, and V13, and V14 seems to be what I found in GoogleDocs, which is the only link I found on the website. Thanks.

Crackerjackz, if you want to send me the complete charger, it would help tremendously. I can't guarantee when I'll get around to doing any in-depth analysis and testing, but while I am focused on it I will probably be motivated to dig right in for a while. The charger and the control PCB remain yours, of course, and you may have them back whenever you want. However, I might make some modifications as I do my analysis.

If it saves a lot of weight, size, and shipping cost, you might be able to exclude the cabinet, heat sinks, and IGBTs. OTOH, with the complete unit, I might be able to get it working, and you'd have a complete charger. Hopefully Valery might be able to send me some old boards and parts, but I'm not holding my breath. 

As for the firmware, I have never worked with the Arduino, so that might take some time and effort. But what I saw of it does not look too complex. Most of the 1000 lines seem to be comments.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

cracker 

2014-08-14 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : [email protected] 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 14 août 2014 22:14:03 À : [email protected] ([email protected]) 




.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P { padding:0px; } .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage { font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri; } whats going on ... thank you ... ?

from: the one and only!! [email protected] !! 




Valery Miftakhov Ajouter aux contacts 
2014-08-15 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : cracker, Valery Miftakhov 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *Valery Miftakhov* ([email protected]) Cet expéditeur figure dans votre liste verte. Envoyé : 15 août 2014 01:49:14 À : cracker ([email protected]); Valery Miftakhov ([email protected]) 




No news from the post guys but we are sending you a board and IGBT tomorrow. 


Congrats on the wedding!!


Thanks,
Valery.



 cracker 

2014-08-18 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : Valery Miftakhov 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 18 août 2014 09:00:30 À : Valery Miftakhov ([email protected]) 




So ......

Sent from my iPhone


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

cracker 

2014-08-27 
 

https://col130.mail.live.com/ol/# À : [email protected] 
 


Afficher ce message... 
 






De : *cracker* ([email protected]) Envoyé : 27 août 2014 22:07:52 À : [email protected] ([email protected]) 




.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P { padding:0px; } .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage { font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri; } did you ship out my parts ? ... what exactly and when ... thanks ... 

from: the one and only!! [email protected] !! 





AFTER THIS I WENT onto diyelectriccar.com and started being an asshole !!!! . after rereading all my emails and valerys ... my conclusion is simple ... valery send me my driverboard and IGBT .... I deserve it  thank you !!!! emw exposed !!!!!1


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I just found something odd. The PCB file for V12 shows three SIP-3 "connectors" in the upper left, labeled +12, GND, and +5, top to bottom. But on the board from CrackerJackz, also labeled V12, these are labeled +12, +5, and GND. The routing also differs between these two identically labeled boards. Hmmm...

This board is actually according to V13 of the PCB file, but the silkscreen says V12. This is a two-part board which has the relays on the top part with the control board circuitry, and the bottom part which is snapped off is the driver board which is labeled V13.0. 

It looks like this version corrected the previous V12 control board where the ground plane had shorted out the tracks for C43, C45, C46, C51, and the unlabeled C44. But these pads were counterbored as was required for the original V12 anyway.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> im sorry I missed the point were its free for me ... I bought a system "in parts" with instructions and step by step procedures to build ...
> 
> 
> no instructions for the driver board were ever given . no step by step documentation and not even proper schematics ... just saying ...
> ...


no, of course we took way too much time to get that situation sorted out - with parts lost in the mail and all. I apologized for it more than once and refunded your money for these parts that we never recovered. 

And yes, the documentation wasn't where it needed to be for a non-PFC version and I admitted it myself. In the end, we pulled that version of the kit altogether. 

But that particular remark you're reacting to here was not targeted at you. It was rather a comment on the flavor of 'helping' that starts with saying things like 'this board is about the worst I have ever seen'. Could be true, I don't know, but perhaps you shouldn't start with that if you expect / want a constructive response ;-)

Re free vs. not free - we've been through this already. The part costs alone is pretty much the same as the price of a kit. Hence everything else you're getting is free. 

Like I said before - you're welcome to redesign the whole thing from scratch if you don't like it. I would be curious to see how many of you would have the determination to follow through from the initial napkin design that Simon and Damien had 3 years ago and build a working product out of it. If you can do it, awesome - we need more inexpensive, innovative products in EV space. I was just hoping that the approach you choose would not involve trashing other people's work.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Hey, Valery. I know that your remark was directed at me, and I'm sorry if I "ruffled your feathers", but I hate being ignored, so at least I found a way to get your attention. I am concerned about your lack of response to my offer to help, and a simple request for some junk PCBs and parts has gone unanswered for more than two weeks, which I consider rude and unprofessional. I am trying to help, and I thought you would appreciate some professional assistance and constructive criticism. Apparently you have chosen to take a defensive stance, and that is your prerogative. I have no intention of entering into competition with you on this or other products, but if I can help your customers in any way, I will do so. 

Your move...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I just found something odd. The PCB file for V12 shows three SIP-3 "connectors" in the upper left, labeled +12, GND, and +5, top to bottom. But on the board from CrackerJackz, also labeled V12, these are labeled +12, +5, and GND. The routing also differs between these two identically labeled boards. Hmmm...
> 
> This board is actually according to V13 of the PCB file, but the silkscreen says V12. This is a two-part board which has the relays on the top part with the control board circuitry, and the bottom part which is snapped off is the driver board which is labeled V13.0.
> 
> It looks like this version corrected the previous V12 control board where the ground plane had shorted out the tracks for C43, C45, C46, C51, and the unlabeled C44. But these pads were counterbored as was required for the original V12 anyway.


Paul - if you really want to iterate on and improve the design, I would not start with boards 2 versions before the current. You can see the current v14 versions at https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing

it has schematics in Diptrace, as well - which is not as nice as pads but a step in the right direction from EPCB, for sure. 

the V15 schematics and layouts are being worked on now and will be SMT based, with all components prepopulated on the boards (except power board with its huge caps, of course). probably a couple of months out before we have these in 'flesh', though.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Hey, Valery. I know that your remark was directed at me, and I'm sorry if I "ruffled your feathers", but I hate being ignored, so at least I found a way to get your attention. I am concerned about your lack of response to my offer to help, and a simple request for some junk PCBs and parts has gone unanswered for more than two weeks, which I consider rude and unprofessional. I am trying to help, and I thought you would appreciate some professional assistance and constructive criticism. Apparently you have chosen to take a defensive stance, and that is your prerogative. I have no intention of entering into competition with you on this or other products, but if I can help your customers in any way, I will do so.
> 
> Your move...


I did not intend to be rude to you, Paul. There could be 100 reasons for someone to not answer... That's the difference between silence and a proactive statement... 

But anyway, like I said - if you want to improve on the design, I would not be looking at a bunch of old boards much - that would largely be a waste of time. I would instead do what Collin did [with software in his case] - ask me what the latest design files are so we have the best starting point, understand what's being worked on right now, agree who's working on what so we don't duplicate efforts, and get the next rev out - the best ever. 

That said, your boards are in the box, waiting to be dropped off at the post. I can't find your address in my email box, however - sorry if I missed it. Pls email to [email protected]

Thx


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery ... Its great you realise theres was a major lack of service for my build ... Wonderful ... Obviously i still need and would love to see my emw charger working ... For that i still need a driver board :s .... I would appreciate you sending me a bill for a complete finished and tested driver board and igbt ... I say finished and tested because i dont want to deal with instructions / schematics / tweaks ... Unless you can provide me clear instructions on a v13 non pfc driver board but i dont think thats the case ? ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Here is what I found on the latest V14 Control/Driver PCB:









There may be other problems not shown. I have tried to identify all of the components and their RefDes are shown in red. Some are not on the schematic (NOS). There is a trace going to U3-1 that is partially outside the board outline. There are some traces that are only 10 mils wide, which may be adequate for the current capacity but are unnecessary. I generally use 12 or 15 mils as default and 20-30 mils for power and ground.

There are two zeners connected from R5 to the ground plane that need to be wired in series (back to back) and placed on the board for gate protection, but they are not on the schematic and have no part outline or RefDes on the PCB. There are two others that are called D1 and D2 on the schematic, and are shown in parallel. On the PCB they are called Z1 and Z2, and correctly connected in series, but the polarity is not shown.

There is a component called R6-PFC on the layout, and simply R6 on the schematic. The PCB also shows R6-NonPFC, but it is not actually a component, and is just lines drawn on the silkscreen. This has also been done for many of the connectors, such as the FTDI cable connector J11.

Hopefully the marked-up component map will help those who have the V14 board. Now I will need to do the same for the V12 board I received from CrackerJackz, so I have a way to do a power-up and look at the signals and such. When I have made a V12 component map, I will post it here.

Good luck, and send me some as well, as I may need it! 

[edit] Here's a video clip of first power-up:

http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/DSCN1555.AVI


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> it has schematics in Diptrace, as well - which is not as nice as pads but a step in the right direction from EPCB, for sure.
> 
> the V15 schematics and layouts are being worked on now and will be SMT based, with all components prepopulated on the boards (except power board with its huge caps, of course). probably a couple of months out before we have these in 'flesh', though.


The new Diptrace files are really awesome! I know, for me, being able to see a circuit in a schematic view is extremely helpful. Sometimes it's just too hard to see what's going on when you look at a board file. I've always been kind of partial to being able to cross reference between schematic and board. So, this is really good news. I hadn't used DipTrace before but I love how it'll highlight all of the pins/lines that connect together when you hover over one of them. I wish it were that easy in EagleCad. 

Anyway, I think that lots of people are going to like these new schematic files.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have marked up the V12/13 layouts and schematics for control and driver:




























It is still confusing, but hopefully these markups will make it a little less so.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Just curious paul ... My understanding is that the control board for non pfc and pfc is exactly the same .... For the driver board thats not the case though ? The pfc version drives two igbts ... Hense the note on the top saying to look at the build instructions from emw ( that dont exist ) ...


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## gregsh (Jul 6, 2014)

_From August: After several weeks of successful charging, my charger has quit, but first some background. __Input is 240VAC and 24 amps from a 30 amp circuit. There are two inrush resistors, one on each branch, on the input side. Output is roughly 128VDC and up to 44 amps. There was a single inrush resistor on the positive output. The inrush resistors were supplied with the kit. There was no output diode. I leave my charger at home and plug it into the wall and the car each night. Last night,__ at 1-2 seconds into the charge cycle, there was a “pop”, a spark near the front of the charger, the circuit breaker tripped, and everything went dark and quiet._
I finally have everything back together and have hit a snag in testing at step c.iii.8. This is where the charger goes to “run” on 110V and where there are light bulbs instead of batteries at the output end. My charger goes directly to “BMS stop” without lighting the bulbs. Thinking that there might be a problem with my test setup, I also tried connecting the charger to my car batteries, but obtained the same result. In every case there was no change from the output precharge voltage when the charger turned on, and no noise, spark, or smoke.
Parts replaced and added:
1. Output IGBT- PFC side tested ok at low voltage, and showed 375V on connection to 110VAC.
2. Burned 10R resistor on driver board- Output side
3. Burned C28 104 cap on driver board- Output side
4. Added TVS, cap, and different resistor on both sides of power board, per recommendations to handle the Miller effect.
5. Added output diode and 1K ohm power resistor on output side, with LED indicator to show successful output cap precharge (seems to work well).
Inrush resistors remain on input side. Logic all seems to work. Before reinstalling the driver board, I put 12VDC in and measured 15VDC at the output connectors. My uneducated guess is that the output A3120 needs to be replaced, but is this correct, and is it sufficient? What are my next steps?
On a more general note, I second crackerjackz’s request for a fully assembled driver board. In fact, I think that it might be a profit opportunity to provide fully assembled replacements for all boards to speed repair and increase success rate and customer satisfaction. EMW could certify the boards as successfully tested, but would need provide no further warranty.
If anyone has an idea on how to proceed on my repair, please share. Thanks.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It appears that the control board may be the same for both PFC and non-PFC, but it's difficult to determine because of the discrepancies between schematic and PCB. The board CrackerJackz sent me has some components missing, and I need to look at the schematic to see what they are and if they are needed. For instance:

R38 and R37 form a voltage divider from the regulated 12V supply to provide about 4V to the Arduino A3 (UVLO). I don't know how the Arduino is configured, but if that is an analog input, it will be floating and could read anything, and possibly pick up noise and leakage current and cause problems or damage. R38 has a larger footprint but the resistor is the same size as R37.

R33 and C51 are missing, and they are used for the external thermistor. This goes to Arduino A4 and is labeled T2. Perhaps this is only for the PFC version.

C44 is missing and not on schematic. It appears to be a filter cap for UVLO.

R49 and R50 are missing. They are NOS. R50 goes across C51 and the thermistor for T2. Perhaps it is used for wires? R49 goes across C39, which is used for A5 - MainsV. This appears to be the same as Vbop but it is derived from driver board mVout which is the questionable output of the optocoupler U5. So if this signal is used, it likely has lots of noise and ripple which may cause erratic determination of mains voltage as has been discussed.

C30 and C31 are missing, and not surprisingly are NOS. They are filters for A6 and A7, which (like A4 and A5) seem to go to pads under the Arduino and not connected to anything. They also connect to R45 and R46 (NOS), which go to bC and Th on pads in the LL corner. 

R34 and S1 are missing, and are not labeled on the schematic. But they appear to be used for the doubler relay. The part name for S1 shows it as N2222 and used *only* for _*non-PFC*_. Same for R34.

R26, S9, and D1 are missing. They are on the schematic (but not labeled) and are used for the fan. R26 is 1k to the gate from Arduino pin D8. S9 is a 100 amp MOSFET with 6800 pF gate capacitance, for 6.8 uSec TC. This might cause considerable switching losses if used for PWM. But the components are not there so it's a moot point.

S6, S7, and S8 are missing (I mislabeled them on my annotated image), along with some of their associated resistors. S6 and R28 are used for the shutdown function. S7, R29, and D3 are used for D5-HC. R29 is populated but S7 is not, so it has no purpose. S8 and R30 are used for D4.

So, those are the differences in the control PCB, but this board was apparently built by CrackerJackz and as he said, the board from EMW was different. Perhaps he can do a similar assessment, but this does take a lot of time. It is difficult when there are so many versions of the PCBs and the schematics, and they are not adequately labeled and parts are missing and extra parts or decals are present.

There is also an older version of V12 where the control PCB may be identical except for the two relays that were added in the later version, which is called V13. That version may have changed the driver board labeled 13.0 in both files V12 and V13, and the V13 file removed the V12 and V12.0 (PFC) which were combined in one layout.

This is still quite confusing but hopefully I have provided some valuable information that can be used by those with V12, V13, and possibly V14 builds. Whew. I need a drink!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

> Parts replaced and added:
> 1. Output IGBT- PFC side tested ok at low voltage, and showed 375V on connection to 110VAC.
> 2. Burned 10R resistor on driver board- Output side
> 3. Burned C28 104 cap on driver board- Output side
> ...


I think that whatever burned the 10R power resistor (R6?) and the filter capacitor C28 would also destroy or damage the optically coupled gate driver U7 and the DC-DC converter U4. I don't know if these components drive the PFC section or the PWM buck converter. You should provide the version number and PFC or non-PFC info. I don't have one of these boards yet, so I can't provide much help until Valery sends me some boards and parts as he said he might, or if I get the complete charger from CrackerJackz. 

I will assume you have a PFC version, and that the damage is in the output (Buck converter/charger) section.

If you are getting +15VDC on the gate drive then it indicates that the DC-DC might be OK but the A3120 is damaged. Its output should be low without current through the LED. 

If the DC-DC converter is VESD2-S12-D15, it is obsolete. Here is the spec sheet:
http://www.cui.com/product/resource/vesd2-sip.pdf

This calls for 0.47 uF capacitors on the output, and a minimum 10% load, as otherwise the output may become unstable and exceed the nominal 15V. It is possible that you may read 15V with your meter but a scope may reveal higher peaks that could damage the A3120 which has an absolute maximum of 35V while the +/-15V is very close (30V). The schematic calls for 22-50 uF capacitors. There should also be a 2.2 uF capacitor close to the 12V input of the DC-DC. The closest capacitor is C24, which has a rather long track to the (+) input, and the (-) input is connected to the ground plane which seems somewhat discontinuous and probably connects at some point quite far away.

My suggestions would be 
(1) replace U6 A3120 and U3 DC-DC converter (and make sure it is rated for continuous use at 375 VDC isolation)
(2) Add a 2.2uF ceramic or low impedance electrolytic directly across the input pins of DC-DC U3 (and U4)
(3) Replace the large C20 and C21 capacitors with the recommended values (but check the specs on the replacement DC-DC). Do this also for C22 and C23.
(4) Add 15V zeners (1N4744 or similar) across the output terminals of the DC-DC converters (U3 and U4)
(5) Replace the 10k G-E resistors on the IGBTs with 1k.
(6) Add two 15V (not 18V) zeners in series back-to-back across the G-E of the IGBTs.

If you do this carefully there is little risk and much protection to be gained. But don't hold me responsible if something blows up again. There are proper ways to test the operation before applying full power, but this requires test equipment (which I have) and familiarity with the circuit (which I am slowly acquiring). I will also offer to have you send the driver board (or the complete charger) to me at your expense for shipping, and I'll at least try to get it working. 

Good luck!


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> It appears that the control board may be the same for both PFC and non-PFC, but it's difficult to determine because of the discrepancies between schematic and PCB. The board CrackerJackz sent me has some components missing, and I need to look at the schematic to see what they are and if they are needed. For instance:
> 
> R38 and R37 form a voltage divider from the regulated 12V supply to provide about 4V to the Arduino A3 (UVLO). I don't know how the Arduino is configured, but if that is an analog input, it will be floating and could read anything, and possibly pick up noise and leakage current and cause problems or damage. R38 has a larger footprint but the resistor is the same size as R37.
> 
> ...




Holy .... Crappers .... Im loading the pc to respond to that lol ... My iphone wont do ... Ill get back to you with emws built control board in just a few minutes ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> It appears that the control board may be the same for both PFC and non-PFC, but it's difficult to determine because of the discrepancies between schematic and PCB. The board CrackerJackz sent me has some components missing, and I need to look at the schematic to see what they are and if they are needed. For instance:
> 
> R38 and R37 form a voltage divider from the regulated 12V supply to provide about 4V to the Arduino A3 (UVLO). I don't know how the Arduino is configured, but if that is an analog input, it will be floating and could read anything, and possibly pick up noise and leakage current and cause problems or damage. R38 has a larger footprint but the resistor is the same size as R37.
> 
> ...




my biggest concen between my board and emws board is with ... d4 (diode ) and r36 ( resistor ) ... instead of having a diode in d4 and a resistor in r36 on emws built board I have .


cathode side of diode is in its proper place ... then two resistors welded to the anode side of the diode ... the resistors then go each separately to a separate end of the r36 resistor ... valery said this was to fix a "bug " in the pcb board ... but I had never seen this in his instructions or anywere until I mentioned it to him a week or two ago ... all he responded is I probrebly didn't even know what the circuit does ... exactly what it does hes right I have no clue ... but I know its tide to the j1772 input signal id love to see more but r1 in the schematic is not found on the pcb drawings ... and c-50 isn't populated so im guessing its a pfc version capacitor ? ... d4 the diode im referring to is also a horrible name because theres a d4 transistor on the fan doubler relay schematic on the right ...


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

my biggest concen between my board and emws board is with ... d4 (diode ) and r36 ( resistor ) ... instead of having a diode in d4 and a resistor in r36 on emws built board I have .


cathode side of diode is in its proper place ... then two resistors welded to the anode side of the diode ... the resistors then go each separately to a separate end of the r36 resistor ... valery said this was to fix a "bug " in the pcb board ... but I had never seen this in his instructions or anywere until I mentioned it to him a week or two ago ... all he responded is I probrebly didn't even know what the circuit does ... exactly what it does hes right I have no clue ... but I know its tide to the j1772 input signal id love to see more but r1 in the schematic is not found on the pcb drawings ... and c-50 isn't populated so im guessing its a pfc version capacitor ? ... d4 the diode im referring to is also a horrible name because theres a d4 transistor on the fan doubler relay schematic on the right ...


on emws board ......

r37-r38 are also not populated 

r33-c51 not populated

r34 not populated , s1 isn't labled on my pcb and when I search for it I comes up only on the driver board so to much time to waste finding it ... my only transistors populated are ( s3,s4,s5,s9)

r26,d1 not populated s9 is populated ... 

c44 , r49 are populated but r50 is not populated ... 

c30,c31 not populated

r49 not populated but c39 is populated ...

s8-r30 not populated 

r28-r29 not populated ...


as mentionedabove the only transistors populated are ... s3,s4,s5,s9 ....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Heres the bug fix by emw ....


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)




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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm not familiar with the J1772. Here is what I found:

http://modularevpower.com/J1772_EVSE.htm
http://modularevpower.com/Images/EVSE%204%20diagram%204-2.pdf
http://modularevpower.com/Images/EVSE4 Assembly 1-0.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU9RDyz8OBU
http://jackrickard.blogspot.com/2011/01/j1772-2009-charging-for-your-ev.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-EV-J1772-Charging-Station/
http://sologiccal.blogspot.com/2011/08/j1772-pilot-signal.html

I'll look at these later. It seems that the pilot signal is not simple, and there is no reason for you to know how it works or how the EMW charger circuit performs this function. I would think that there should be a basic "theory of operation" for the EMW charger. I do that for most of the products I design. It helps me and others who may need to troubleshoot, repair, or modify a circuit.

I found a pretty good explanation of the J1772 and its various states and control handshaking:
https://open-evse.googlecode.com/files/J1772.pdf










I can't see how the J1772 pilot circuit can accomplish this. The diode provides the mechanism for the Pilot Low signal to remain at -12V, but the Arduino must somehow provide the 2.74k resistance to GND to indicate that it is ready, and it must also sense the presence of the 9V 1 kHz square wave to know that there is a charging station connected. Then the BMS needs to add another resistor to ground to get 882 ohms total, which is 1.3k. The "kludge" on CrackerJackz's board may have a 2.74k to GND and a 1.3k to Arduino D7, but it looks as if it connects to R1, which does not seem to be populated. Perhaps somehow the BMS connects to this point and performs this function?

The EVTV reference shows a very simple implementation:


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

gregsh said:


> _From August: After several weeks of successful charging, my charger has quit, but first some background. __Input is 240VAC and 24 amps from a 30 amp circuit. There are two inrush resistors, one on each branch, on the input side. Output is roughly 128VDC and up to 44 amps. There was a single inrush resistor on the positive output. The inrush resistors were supplied with the kit. There was no output diode. I leave my charger at home and plug it into the wall and the car each night. Last night,__ at 1-2 seconds into the charge cycle, there was a “pop”, a spark near the front of the charger, the circuit breaker tripped, and everything went dark and quiet._
> I finally have everything back together and have hit a snag in testing at step c.iii.8. This is where the charger goes to “run” on 110V and where there are light bulbs instead of batteries at the output end. My charger goes directly to “BMS stop” without lighting the bulbs. Thinking that there might be a problem with my test setup, I also tried connecting the charger to my car batteries, but obtained the same result. In every case there was no change from the output precharge voltage when the charger turned on, and no noise, spark, or smoke.
> Parts replaced and added:
> 1. Output IGBT- PFC side tested ok at low voltage, and showed 375V on connection to 110VAC.
> ...


Hi Greg - 

BMS stop is normally shown when there is no jumper / closed-loop BMS (such as CleanPowerAuto's miniBMS) between EOC and BMS pins. Could you pls check?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> View attachment 28746
> View attachment 28754
> View attachment 28762
> 
> ...


J1772 circuit on the charger is a simple resistor-diode circuit that puts the EVSE into the state 'C' (Charging). It consists of a small signal diode (anode to J1772 pilot input) and a series 1k resistor to ground. The reading by Arduino is taken from the mid-point of this circuit via a 10k resistor. The other end of that 10k resistor goes to D7 digital input


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> R38 and R37 form a voltage divider from the regulated 12V supply to provide about 4V to the Arduino A3 (UVLO). I don't know how the Arduino is configured, but if that is an analog input, it will be floating and could read anything, and possibly pick up noise and leakage current and cause problems or damage. R38 has a larger footprint but the resistor is the same size as R37.


Unused input. Arduino manual itself (http://arduino.cc/en/pmwiki.php?n=Reference/RandomSeed) calls for using floating analog pins as Random seed value. I would think the makers of the board would not be recommending something unsafe.

UVLO is done in the system at the IGBT driver level - A3120 / J312 will go into low state if supply goes below 12V.



PStechPaul said:


> R33 and C51 are missing, and they are used for the external thermistor. This goes to Arduino A4 and is labeled T2. Perhaps this is only for the PFC version.


secondary thermistor. unused in standard builds



PStechPaul said:


> C44 is missing and not on schematic. It appears to be a filter cap for UVLO.


correct. unused



PStechPaul said:


> R49 and R50 are missing. They are NOS. R50 goes across C51 and the thermistor for T2. Perhaps it is used for wires? R49 goes across C39, which is used for A5 - MainsV. This appears to be the same as Vbop but it is derived from driver board mVout which is the questionable output of the optocoupler U5. So if this signal is used, it likely has lots of noise and ripple which may cause erratic determination of mains voltage as has been discussed.


unused in standard configuration of the charger. We have also been through this one many times and it is mentioned many times in the manual - components without refdes on the board are NO LOAD for standard configuration. Hence you don't see them. 



PStechPaul said:


> C30 and C31 are missing, and not surprisingly are NOS. They are filters for A6 and A7, which (like A4 and A5) seem to go to pads under the Arduino and not connected to anything. They also connect to R45 and R46 (NOS), which go to bC and Th on pads in the LL corner.


unused in standard configuration



PStechPaul said:


> R34 and S1 are missing, and are not labeled on the schematic. But they appear to be used for the doubler relay. The part name for S1 shows it as N2222 and used *only* for _*non-PFC*_. Same for R34.


correct but unused in standard configuration for a long time as using relay to switch on the doubler is inherently unsafe operation and we stopped doing it long time ago. 




PStechPaul said:


> R26, S9, and D1 are missing. They are on the schematic (but not labeled) and are used for the fan. R26 is 1k to the gate from Arduino pin D8. S9 is a 100 amp MOSFET with 6800 pF gate capacitance, for 6.8 uSec TC. This might cause considerable switching losses if used for PWM. But the components are not there so it's a moot point.


unused in standard configuration. Fans are connected directly to 12V power supply



PStechPaul said:


> S6, S7, and S8 are missing (I mislabeled them on my annotated image), along with some of their associated resistors. S6 and R28 are used for the shutdown function. S7, R29, and D3 are used for D5-HC. R29 is populated but S7 is not, so it has no purpose. S8 and R30 are used for D4.


unused in standard configuration.




PStechPaul said:


> There is also an older version of V12 where the control PCB may be identical except for the two relays that were added in the later version, which is called V13. That version may have changed the driver board labeled 13.0 in both files V12 and V13, and the V13 file removed the V12 and V12.0 (PFC) which were combined in one layout.


correct



PStechPaul said:


> This is still quite confusing but hopefully I have provided some valuable information that can be used by those with V12, V13, and possibly V14 builds. Whew. I need a drink!


thanks for going through, Paul.

As I mentioned above, the reason for nearly all of the above is that the standard configuration does not use a lot of optional parts on the board. To avoid confusion, we removed their silkscreens from the board outline and noted that un-referenced outlines are NO LOAD


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> I would think the makers of the board would not be recommending something unsafe...


To be fair, I don't think the makers intended arduino for 25kw homemade chargers connected to DIY electric vehicles parked in garages next to sleeping humans. There would be a lot more discipline involved in the release cycle, and a lot of arduino developers losing sleep, if so. Randomly flashing pretty LEDs is (or should be) a completely different mindset.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> J1772 circuit on the charger is a simple resistor-diode circuit that puts the EVSE into the state 'C' (Charging). It consists of a small signal diode (anode to J1772 pilot input) and a series 1k resistor to ground. The reading by Arduino is taken from the mid-point of this circuit via a 10k resistor. The other end of that 10k resistor goes to D7 digital input[/
> 
> I get why then your board had that pcb hack done to it ... Shouldnt it be noted for everyone to do the same with a v12 pcb board ????? Pfc is well as non pfc ...
> 
> ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dcb said:


> To be fair, I don't think the makers intended arduino for 25kw homemade chargers connected to DIY electric vehicles parked in garages next to sleeping humans. There would be a lot more discipline involved in the release cycle, and a lot of arduino developers losing sleep, if so. Randomly flashing pretty LEDs is (or should be) a completely different mindset.


how about large unmanned vehicles?


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> how about large unmanned vehicles?


I really appreciate your contributions to open source hardware, sincerely, thank you for that, but I hope you understand that countering with fallacies costs credibility. I don't see how prototype UMVs in a controlled setting applies to your product. This environment is anything but controlled, or actively monitored during operation (chances are the operator is asleep).

Why do you care about leaving a rather prototypical layer of software and hardware in your somewhat critical control system product? It *seems* like marketing to me, which is entirely the wrong reason to introduce such variables and risks. I don't see any other reason why the DUE would be a priority either, you must know on some level how many bugs and variables (and customer misconceptions) are being invited to the party there.

I appreciate there is something of a business agenda at work here, and again I am very grateful for your open source contributions. Just asking you to think about the engineering compromises being made in the name of marketing. Do you think you would sell less units if you avoided the unnecessary (and cost/variable/confusion introducing) arduino hardware/software layer, and settled on a chip and a compiler version instead?


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> J1772 circuit on the charger is a simple resistor-diode circuit that puts the EVSE into the state 'C' (Charging). It consists of a small signal diode (anode to J1772 pilot input) and a series 1k resistor to ground. The reading by Arduino is taken from the mid-point of this circuit via a 10k resistor. The other end of that 10k resistor goes to D7 digital input


I did find the "Hack" included in the v12 build instructions, so it was previously addressed. I have not tested it with an actual EVSE...can anyone confirm the J1772 operation of the charger? I don't know what I'd do if I damaged a public station or did something worse???

How does the charger handle current negotiation? If I use a 20A station but my charger is set for 30A, will it trip the EVSE? Or do I just have to make sure I properly adjust the charger based on the EVSE power? I do not recall seeing code to handle the Pilot Signal Duty Cycle current negotiation scheme.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

dcb said:


> Why do you care about leaving a rather prototypical layer of software and hardware in your somewhat critical control system product? It *seems* like marketing to me, which is entirely the wrong reason to introduce such variables and risks. I don't see any other reason why the DUE would be a priority either, you must know on some level how many bugs and variables (and customer misconceptions) are being invited to the party there.
> 
> I appreciate there is something of a business agenda at work here, and again I am very grateful for your open source contributions. Just asking you to think about the engineering compromises being made in the name of marketing. Do you think you would sell less units if you avoided the unnecessary (and cost/variable/confusion introducing) arduino hardware/software layer, and settled on a chip and a compiler version instead?


I'm going to jump in with my two cents. I'm not Valery but I am deeply involved with several projects that use the Arduino library and Arduino/Arduino-Like hardware. One such project is an ECU for electric cars and so is approximately as mission-critical as EMW's charger systems. The only difference is that you're going to be in the car while the ECU is working. 

So, the question for someone like Val or me is: why use Arduino instead of doing it yourself? There are many factors at play here. Actually, for the ECU we did eventually roll our own hardware which was based upon the Arduino Due. The hardware is now basically a very much beefed up Arduino Due with isolated power and inputs. It still uses the same software as we were careful to be pin-compatible. So, yes, there is an argument to using custom hardware. It can be more robust. But, the counter argument is that rolling your own hardware means extra work and extra expense. In our initial designs we had an Arduino Due installed upside down on a custom board. Once we had more experience with the Due we transitioned to a totally custom board with everything integrated. This can be a viable pathway to getting good, robust hardware. I've heard of some people who have had bad luck with Due units but mostly I've found them to be pretty reliable if not abused. Then there is software. For the most part the Arduino library is very reliable. It does lack a few things such as use of the watchdog timer. It also is not constructed for mission critical applications - there really isn't a real time OS by default. But, those things can be added. I know I've added a whole bunch of stuff via libraries.

But, that goes back to the whole reason for using commodity hardware and software in the first place: the bottom line is that the goal is to allow more people to work with your product. Personally I have built custom boards and I've written embedded software with just the compiler libraries and my own code. But, how many people can you expect to do that? I could give my dad an Arduino and get him to blink some lights. I could show him how to edit a couple of parameters and re-upload the sketch too. Arduino makes getting into development easy. It doesn't magically let you do advanced things but it does make uploading and small changes easier.

But, to be perfectly blunt, do I still worry a bit about using Arduino hardware and software in mission critical systems? Sure I do. I also worry a bit that code I wrote is currently propelling people down the road with 100kw motors. Open source hardware and software can be a bit scary because all of your skeletons are in open view. If I write bad code a lot of people will know about it. If hardware designs I helped create break or aren't robust then everyone can see it plain as day. But, my hope is that using well tested things like the Arduino library would be beneficial as it is actively used by huge numbers of people and is in active development. To some extent relying on the Arduino library is no different from relying on the compiler's included libraries.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Old.DSMer said:


> I did find the "Hack" included in the v12 build instructions, so it was previously addressed. I have not tested it with an actual EVSE...can anyone confirm the J1772 operation of the charger? I don't know what I'd do if I damaged a public station or did something worse???
> 
> 
> 
> How does the charger handle current negotiation? If I use a 20A station but my charger is set for 30A, will it trip the EVSE? Or do I just have to make sure I properly adjust the charger based on the EVSE power? I do not recall seeing code to handle the Pilot Signal Duty Cycle current negotiation scheme.




You must have seen this in the pfc build instructions ... I guarantee you there is not a word of this in the non pfc instructions .... At the very least not 4 months ago ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> (1) replace U6 A3120 and U3 DC-DC converter (and make sure it is rated for continuous use at 375 VDC isolation)


correct. but I thought I have advised Greg of that before and he replaced these parts already. His latest reported BMS stop issue is unrelated to any of this anyway - it's a control flow feature - charger expects EOC and BMS pins to be connected in order to start charging sequence.



PStechPaul said:


> (2) Add a 2.2uF ceramic or low impedance electrolytic directly across the input pins of DC-DC U3 (and U4)


would help but not required. Note that there is already a 47uF elcap on input placed on the driver board.



PStechPaul said:


> (3) Replace the large C20 and C21 capacitors with the recommended values (but check the specs on the replacement DC-DC). Do this also for C22 and C23.


correct. new spec'ed part is http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=945-1922-5-ND, accepting up to 220uF capacitive load. 47uF caps are more than enough for this application



PStechPaul said:


> (4) Add 15V zeners (1N4744 or similar) across the output terminals of the DC-DC converters (U3 and U4)


not required if you already have zeners on gates. Also, having 15V zeners can actually damage the DC/DC converter. All these converters have ratiometric outputs - i.e. if you supply 10% higher input voltage, they will produce 10% higher output voltage. So if your 12V supply is higher than 12V (happens quite often within a few percent), your output will be higher than 15V and your zeners will load the supply - unnecessarily and potentially dangerously. If you want redundant protection here, use 17-18V zeners (more on this below)



PStechPaul said:


> (5) Replace the 10k G-E resistors on the IGBTs with 1k.


my recommendation is 2.7k (now in manuals) but 1k would also work - just make sure you use 1/4W part.

you also need a 4.7-10nF cap across the G-E terminals - this recommendation has been made a few pages back, as well. It's also now in manuals.



PStechPaul said:


> (6) Add two 15V (not 18V) zeners in series back-to-back across the G-E of IGBTs


This is simply incorrect. 

Paul - we have been through this before and you keep making a wrong recommendation. I am curious as to why you insist it - I hope that the motivation is not just to recommend something different from me... ;-)

Anyway, here are _multiple_ _manufacturer-authored_ application notes and _actual suggested driver designs_ that all call for 17-18V zeners:

http://www.pwrx.com/pwrx/docs/bg2b.pdf - see schematics
http://www.ineltron.de/english/powerex-data/BG1A.pdf - same
http://www.ixys.com/documents/appnotes/ixan0009.pdf - section 2.2
http://powerelectronics.com/discret...ate-drive-and-protect-high-power-igbt-modules - gate voltage control section
http://www.ixys.com/documents/appnotes/ixan0010.pdf - page 6

Do you guys really think I picked the values of components at random? ;-)

But even without going into any of these papers - there is a fundamental rule that a protection circuit should never be activated during normal operations. And a 15V zener block _will_ be constantly activated - every cycle

I hope that I don't have to post these again just a few pages later ;-)

Cheers, 
Val.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> I did find the "Hack" included in the v12 build instructions, so it was previously addressed. I have not tested it with an actual EVSE...can anyone confirm the J1772 operation of the charger? I don't know what I'd do if I damaged a public station or did something worse???
> 
> How does the charger handle current negotiation? If I use a 20A station but my charger is set for 30A, will it trip the EVSE? Or do I just have to make sure I properly adjust the charger based on the EVSE power? I do not recall seeing code to handle the Pilot Signal Duty Cycle current negotiation scheme.


There is a piece of code that does J1772 override - search for 'J1772' in the code. It uses Arduino's pulseIn function: http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/pulseIn

Note that it only handles the sub-54Amp section of the J1772 pilot mapping chart. Which, given the max rated power of this charger (12kW, or ~50A input power at 240V) is an ok comromise IMO.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I realize that electronic design engineers have their own way of approaching design issues, and some of my suggestions, which differ from yours, are minor. But I want to point out why I have made my recommendations.

1. The documentation you provided shows 17 or 18 volt zeners for gate protection. But if you look at the specifications you will see that the tolerance may be 5% or 10%, which could make the "knee" of the curve start at 19 or almost 20 volts. As current increases, the actual zener voltage can be higher, so it is possible that the 20V absolute maximum could be exceeded. Some of the documentation shows a 15V regulator for gate voltage, and the driver will drop about a volt, so that should eliminate any overvoltage from that source, and 18V zeners may be adequate for other sources such as Miller capacitance.

2. The documentation does not show the 4.7 to 10 nF capacitors on the gate. Switching times generally use the series resistor (3.3-27 ohms) in conjunction with the internal gate capacitance. But if these have been shown to improve performance, I have no problem with it.

3. The DC-DC converter specified (although now obsolete) has short circuit protection, so a zener directly across the output will not cause damage. But it will make sure that the output voltage is not excessive. There is no load other than the gate driver, and this DC-DC converter needs at least 10% load for stability. At 10% load, the output can be as much as 10% above nominal 15V, or 16.5V. I use zeners directly across the output of similar unregulated DC-DC converters in my products, and have had zero issues. I don't know what DC-DC you are now using - maybe the specs are different. But there are probably a lot of these in the field.

4. The 2.2 uF capacitor on the input is the recommended value according to the specs. Your 47 uF elcap may not have a low ESR at the switching frequency of the DC-DC converter, AND it is located far from the input. In fact, the traces are routed under U2, and the ground plane has some very thin sections. The DC-DC converter needs a bypass capacitor close to its leads to minimize high frequency currents. Your V13.0 board has a large antenna transmitting at 70 kHz. Probably much higher for a newer device.

5. Your new part may accept a higher load capacitance, but unless you issue a change notice for all customers to replace their devices, the correct values should be used. Specs for new part: http://www.recom-power.com/pdf/Econoline/RKZ.pdf

This is only a discussion of one design element, albeit a very important one. And the documentation should be updated to show ALL of most recent changes. IMHO it is unacceptable and irresponsible for the latest schematics to leave out these changes and "kludges" and only address them in the build notes (and they might not even be there). It is easy enough to add or remove parts on the schematic so that what you see is what you should have. I also think it is very confusing to have unlabeled parts on the PCB and the schematic. 

There should be one schematic showing every part on the corresponding PCB. If you have gone to the trouble of removing the reference designators on the PCB, why did you not also remove the part? For the schematics, it would be easy enough to make several versions in which they include all modifications, and leave out (or clearly mark) those components not used for certain variations. I hope your new design using DipTrace takes care of these issues. But since you are no longer offering (or supporting) kits, you will only need to deal with issues in-house, and those with various version boards and options will have to continue to struggle with conflicting, confusing, and incomplete documentation.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> This is only a discussion of one design element, albeit a very important one. And the documentation should be updated to show ALL of most recent changes. IMHO it is unacceptable and irresponsible for the latest schematics to leave out these changes and "kludges" and only address them in the build notes (and they might not even be there). It is easy enough to add or remove parts on the schematic so that what you see is what you should have. I also think it is very confusing to have unlabeled parts on the PCB and the schematic.
> 
> There should be one schematic showing every part on the corresponding PCB. If you have gone to the trouble of removing the reference designators on the PCB, why did you not also remove the part? For the schematics, it would be easy enough to make several versions in which they include all modifications, and leave out (or clearly mark) those components not used for certain variations. I hope your new design using DipTrace takes care of these issues. But since you are no longer offering (or supporting) kits, you will only need to deal with issues in-house, and those with various version boards and options will have to continue to struggle with conflicting, confusing, and incomplete documentation.




I second the one schematic for each design ... Finding what is used for the non pfc build all mixed in with the pfc schematics is completely nuts  



Valery ... Im waiting on your answer ... Will you be selling me a complete driver board ? Driver board in parts with PROPER ( and i capitalize proper ) instructions like it was suppose to be the case with the kit ... Or nothing ? ... Im waiting till tommorow ... After that my charger is on its way to pauls residence ...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I will address separately the issues with the J1772 circuit. Although I have only recently learned about it, I can make the following observations:

1. Here is the EMW "kludge" on the board CrackerJackz received:










Note that C50 is not populated (and there is no capacitor on any of the J1772 circuits I found), so this is probably a good thing, and maybe why the circuit didn't work as it appears on the schematic. But, perhaps more important, is that R1 is missing. This connects to D7 of the Arduino, so I think there is no way for the signal to be detected. But the board I got from CrackerJackz, also labeled V12, does not have R1 so it was added to the R13 artwork but the board REV was unchanged. A rather serious error, IMHO. I wonder what else changed, other than the correction to the copper flood which was fixed by counterboring the pads.

The J1772 handshaking should first present a resistor of 2.7k to ground, indicating that it is "ready". Then it should present an 882 ohm resistor, which signals the charger to go "live" and supply its voltage to the charger. This ideally would be handled by the BMS, but the charger should also know about the SOC and display the handshaking as the car is plugged in. But the EMW "kludge" uses a 1k resistor, which is probably close enough to 882 ohms that the charging station goes immediately into a "State C" charge condition, which could be dangerous or problematic. Even if the EMW charger goes into shutdown or low current charging mode, it will still be supplied with full voltage from EVSE. The connector is designed so that the pilot signal is disconnected first, as the connector is removed, but if it is pulled out quickly while delivering full charge there could be some arcing before the EVSE sees the loss of pilot and disconnects. *This is a very poor and dangerous design!*

Now, I will look at the software to see how the detection is implemented, assuming that R1 is installed or the "kludge" connects to D7. I'll come back and edit this post with further information. But I did want to point out the possible dangers of what I found so far.

[edit] I'm back. Here are some code snippets (from V14_4 PDE):


```
const byte pin_J1772=7; // J1772 pilot input. 1k is hardwired on V14+ pcbs so J1772 will power on on connect

pinMode(pin_J1772, INPUT);

 // check J1772
          J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);
          if(J1772_dur>50) { // noise control. also, deals with the case when no J1772 signal present at all
            configuration.mainsC=0.06*J1772_dur+3; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6A input - this will work up to 48A
            if(LCD_on) {
              sprintf(str, "IN: %dV, %dA", int(mainsV), configuration.mainsC); myLCD->printStr(1, 7, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str);
            }
          }

           mainsV=read_mV(); // for power adjustments
#ifdef drop110power       
           if(J1772_dur<50) { // but only if no J signal
             // curb power on 110VAC
             if(mainsV<160) { 
               maxMainsC=min(configuration.mainsC/2, 9.); // equivalent 15A from 110VAC // DEBUG
             }
           }
#endif
```
It appears that this code just checks for the presence of the 1 kHz square wave, and determines the mains voltage by means of the unreliable PC817 "mV" signal to adjust maximum power for the case of 110/120 VAC or 220/240 VAC. It then uses the duty cycle to set the available current. But the square wave with the 1k resistor will be about 6-7 volts, which exceeds the 5V rail of the Arduino. It is probably protected, and the 10k resistor will limit the current, so it _probably_ won't be damaged. But this is another example of poor design practice, and the documentation (ie, schematics) still do not show the circuitry supposedly provided by the "kludge".

PS: Valery, my intent is not to disparage your designs, but instead to provide constructive criticism and point out what appear to be serious errors as well as minor nits. I would hope you would take this information and use it to provide proper documentation for previous versions, and also incorporate some of them in your next design (which should be close to perfect after 15 revisions).


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

But the board I got from CrackerJackz, also labeled V12, does not have R1 so it was added to the R13 artwork but the board REV was unchanged. A rather serious error, IMHO. I wonder what else changed, other than the correction to the copper flood which was fixed by counterboring the pads.




so in theory ... the new control board I got from emw is a version 13 control board ... yet its labeled v12 and was still deburred in many places to fix a ground problem which technically wouldn't be there anymore ? ... 



as for the j1772 issue paul ... I agree with you about the arc flashes but all j1772 systems are prown to this if the connector is pulled to quickly without letting things shut down ...

for example ... my elcon is basically hooked up the same except I use a evse1 board in the car next to my charger to start the charge and end it ... my jld404 acts like a top charge bms and sends a contact to the evse1 board in the car telling it to shut off the evse when the charge is complete ... but if its still charging if the connector is pulled to quickly arcing will occur ... although I think I see your point as being that there is always power from the evse even if the charge is complete since the emw charger just sends a charge signal all the time ? theres no way for the resistor to change as its a fixed resistor which according to the schematics should be in series with the diode to the 12 volt ground ... because r1 and c50 are not present ... 

I see your issue with r1 and c50 not being there lol .... the arduino has no input whatsoever from the evse ... its basically just a hack to get the evse to start full charge all the time ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> valerun said:
> 
> 
> > J1772 circuit on the charger is a simple resistor-diode circuit that puts the EVSE into the state 'C' (Charging). It consists of a small signal diode (anode to J1772 pilot input) and a series 1k resistor to ground. The reading by Arduino is taken from the mid-point of this circuit via a 10k resistor. The other end of that 10k resistor goes to D7 digital input[/
> ...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> PS: Valery, my intent is not to disparage your designs, but instead to provide constructive criticism and point out what appear to be serious errors as well as minor nits. I would hope you would take this information and use it to provide proper documentation for previous versions, and also incorporate some of them in your next design (which should be close to perfect after 15 revisions).


Paul - i don't have a problem with constructive suggestions. I do have a problem with your tone of delivery at times. May I suggest that you do more questioning and less telling - that may actually help get things done your way. Otherwise things like 15V zener on gates delivered with the tone of utmost authority don't land too well and cause unnecessary friction. 

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Val.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I can see your point, and I will try a softer approach. But I can also see where you sometimes make absolute statements about some elements of your design that I disagree with, so unless something really is an undisputable fact, it would be better to use "weasel words" such as "it is my opinion" or "because of certain design constraints" or "according to the spec sheet" or "as has been demonstrated in the lab (or field)". Things like that do not so much make me want to reply with contradictory evidence, although I will try to explain the reasoning for my assertions, and it is your job as the designer to provide convincing evidence that I am wrong or that it is inconsequential.

I did find it compelling, and IMHO necessary, to point out the possible danger or malfunction of the missing handshaking steps for the J1772 connection. It is not difficult to implement, so I don't know why it should not be done. Also, I question the use of a 1k resistor when the standard calls for 882 ohms or a 2.7k and a 1.3k added in parallel to start charging.

It would be really helpful if you could provide explanations of each major circuit element, such as the J1772 interface, and not ridicule a customer who has purchased your product and has yet to be able to use it.

I am looking at the non-PFC VER12 build notes (deprecated) which should apply to the V12 control PCB I got from CrackerJackz. There are instructions to use the PCB file with ExpressPCB to determine unmarked (yet used) components on the board, which seems overly complicated. And there are so many "options" as well as board versions with subtle as well as major differences, that even as a competent engineer, I would have a lot of trouble building this.

The bare board shown on page 34 seems to be the same as I have, but the completed board shown on page 38 is different, having only one set of SIP3 connectors, rather than three, in the upper left, and having a red wire jumper from the 12V pad for the unlabeled R38 resistor to behind the voltage regulator labeled S9. R36, D4, and C50 are shown populated but not with the "kludge" that is necessary for the J1772 activation. I could not find this anywhere in this document.

A PFC V12-13 ODT document dated July 2014 shows the same older control boards. It does contain the "hack" which reads as follows:






> ‘Hack’ the J1772 input circuit:
> [*] In the V12 version of the boards, J1772 circuit is wired in a way that on *some *EVSEs triggers the wrong state (‘ventilated power’). Thanks to ‘tomofreno’ from DIYElectricCar.com forum for debugging this! Here’s a fix:
> 
> 
> ...



I'll stop here. I am trying to understand the design and determine why things have been done as they have, and ultimately to be able to help those who have been having problems. Hopefully you will be able to send the proper board to CrackerJackz to get his unit working, and I might expect to get your package of boards and parts to proceed on my end to get something working and tested.

Thanks.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> There is a piece of code that does J1772 override - search for 'J1772' in the code. It uses Arduino's pulseIn function: http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/pulseIn
> 
> Note that it only handles the sub-54Amp section of the J1772 pilot mapping chart. Which, given the max rated power of this charger (12kW, or ~50A input power at 240V) is an ok comromise IMO.


Very good, thanks Val. When I have the opportunity to test it, I will.

*Edit*
Having read more of the subsequent posts, it appears the code does change the input power based on the EVSE pilot.

One of my J1772 plugs (which I modified to charge with my welder cable) had a micro switch inside. It interrupts the pilot signal as soon as you press the release trigger. So, doesn't that simply turn off the EVSE? If so, there should be no arcing.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Old.DSMer said:


> One of my J1772 plugs (which I modified to charge with my welder cable) had a micro switch inside. It interrupts the pilot signal as soon as you press the release trigger. So, doesn't that simply turn off the EVSE? If so, there should be no arcing.


Technically there is, on the EVSE contactor, which is not nice. Much nicer to actually tell the charger to stop first and then, with only the idle current draw of the equipments the EVSE contactor can safely disconnect power.

My own system is programmed to idle the charger for 10 seconds on the button press, if the charge is not complete. After this, if the button is still pressed, sends stop request to the EVSE, if not resumes charge. The long delay is to avoid idiots pressing the button and stopping the charge (in which case I would have to swipe the card, take the plug out, swipe card again and plug again (!)).


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

cts_casemod said:


> ...My own system is programmed to idle the charger for 10 seconds on the button press, if the charge is not complete. After this, if the button is still pressed, sends stop request to the EVSE.....


Interesting explanation. What version are you running? Care to share your code? Previous interpretations (of the v12&14 control boards) suggest there isn't a way to send that communication to the EVSE?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There seems to be a very good explanation of the J1772 protocol, along with circuits, from the Open EVSE project:

https://open-evse.googlecode.com/files/J1772.pdf

This shows the handle pushbutton and the proximity circuit:


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Valery .... Im just waiting on your answer to decide what i must do next ....


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Old.DSMer said:


> Interesting explanation. What version are you running? Care to share your code? Previous interpretations (of the v12&14 control boards) suggest there isn't a way to send that communication to the EVSE?


This is for A PFC charger I designed (4KW, 440V). 
I just mentioned as good practice. Cutting 12KW has to wear the contacts quite fast, more yet for those not PFC corrected.

I am not sure about other parts of the world, the newer charging stations here in the UK require some sort of negotiation, above 13A. Most can supply 32A, single or 3 phase (3P+N), therefore 7 or 22KW.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> There seems to be a very good explanation of the J1772 protocol, along with circuits, from the Open EVSE project:


The EVSE doesn't read the button. The charger does. There is a description on my build page explaining this details for a 13Amp setup I used with the 1.5KW charger.

Its also up to the charger to properly read the pilot and make sure the maximum current is respected. I need this to charge in level 1 stations


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

cts_casemod said:


> The EVSE doesn't read the button. The charger does. There is a description on my build page explaining this details for a 13Amp setup I used with the 1.5KW charger.
> 
> Its also up to the charger to properly read the pilot and make sure the maximum current is respected. I need this to charge in level 1 stations


Guys, thanks for all the J1772 info. It appears to me that v12 EMW software does not handle mid-charge shutdown. So we either need to stop it at the charger (with the control buttons) before unplugging, or do something with the proximity as per this post (cts_casemod - is that the info you were referring to?). It describes signaling the proximity sensor - which will also enable or disable the EVSE. That should prevent any arcs while unplugging.

I believe the EMW code should handle the power adjustment based off the pilot signal. I had to adjust my 'equation' to reduce the input power even lower. I found the software calculated input current was a bit lower than the real-world draw, which resulted in kicked breakers. To prevent this with my first EVSE test, I might have to make the same adjustment....just to make sure I don't over do it.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Old.DSMer said:


> Guys, thanks for all the J1772 info. It appears to me that v12 EMW software does not handle mid-charge shutdown. So we either need to stop it at the charger (with the control buttons) before unplugging, or do something with the proximity as per this post (cts_casemod - is that the info you were referring to?). It describes signaling the proximity sensor - which will also enable or disable the EVSE. That should prevent any arcs while unplugging.


I'm confused. Can you take the plug out with the live power!?
Over here I cant do that. Unless I first tell the EVSE to cut power the cable is locked with an electric mechanism. With that said, I can remove it from the car first (hazard!), but that would imply the communication signals being present on the car (not just in the EVSE plug), making it easy to interface with the charger or a 3rd party device.

How many wires to you have accessible on the car side of the connector? Assuming P+N+E, 4 wires are the minimum and allow the charger to adapt charge rate in function of the pilot. With 5 wires, one can also implement the pilot function.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

cts_casemod said:


> I'm confused. Can you take the plug out with the live power!?
> Over here I cant do that. Unless I first tell the EVSE to cut power the cable is locked with an electric mechanism. With that said, I can remove it from the car first (hazard!), but that would imply the communication signals being present on the car (not just in the EVSE plug), making it easy to interface with the charger or a 3rd party device.
> 
> How many wires to you have accessible on the car side of the connector? Assuming P+N+E, 4 wires are the minimum and allow the charger to adapt charge rate in function of the pilot. With 5 wires, one can also implement the pilot function.



I have not tested on a live EVSE - just going by what others said earlier.

Getting back to the EMW specifically, it only uses the pilot (which I do have connected). Currently, the proximity is connected to nothing. I think I can add the resistor divider with a 5V source on the control board. But it seems like this would have been done already. Especially since the pilot is already handled. Perhaps I missed it in the build notes (don't have an accessible copy right now).


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Old.DSMer said:


> I have not tested on a live EVSE - just going by what others said earlier.
> 
> Getting back to the EMW specifically, it only uses the pilot (which I do have connected). Currently, the proximity is connected to nothing. I think I can add the resistor divider with a 5V source on the control board. But it seems like this would have been done already. Especially since the pilot is already handled. Perhaps I missed it in the build notes (don't have an accessible copy right now).


Not necessarily. 
If you cut the pilot the EVSE contactor should open. Not the best practice, but does the job. And its safe for the user (at the expense of additional wear on the EVSE contactor) which is what I think others are warning. In such case you would only need a a NC switch. When you press, the circuit goes open, the pilot goes to 12V and power is cut before you take the cable out.

The proximity can either be interpreted by the charger, the EVSE or both, as the standard implies. Some EVSE's don't implement it, so doing it on your side (the charger) is a safe bet. But to do that you need 5 wires and software to handle this.

I'm curious Valery hasn't clarified this yet, hes the best person to ask. Until then we are all making assumptions - As I mentioned it's both a hardware and software job.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Old.DSMer said:


> Guys, thanks for all the J1772 info. It appears to me that v12 EMW software does not handle mid-charge shutdown. So we either need to stop it at the charger (with the control buttons) before unplugging, or do something with the proximity as per this post (cts_casemod - is that the info you were referring to?). It describes signaling the proximity sensor - which will also enable or disable the EVSE. That should prevent any arcs while unplugging.
> 
> I believe the EMW code should handle the power adjustment based off the pilot signal. I had to adjust my 'equation' to reduce the input power even lower. I found the software calculated input current was a bit lower than the real-world draw, which resulted in kicked breakers. To prevent this with my first EVSE test, I might have to make the same adjustment....just to make sure I don't over do it.


Not sure what you are looking for...lots of earlier discussion in this thread on EMW and J1772 around Sept/2013 through Feb/2014 which show up in a search: Posts 1477,1478, 1482, and 1488 are about the charger not working with an EVSE, which resulted in the "hack", discussed in 1543, 1743. Valery explained why it is required in 1488. The PC817 chip was discussed in posts 1746, 1749, 1756, 1757, and 1758. The 120/240 switching was discussed in 1820, 1822, 1823, 1826, and 1832. More discussion on J1772 in posts 2192, 2194, and 2196 where I described modification of the firmware to provide temperature compensation for the PC817 output which varies with temperature.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on J1772:


_The signaling protocol has been designed so that:
_

_[FONT=&quot]supply equipment signals presence of AC input power[/FONT]_
_*[FONT=&quot]vehicle detects plug via proximity circuit (thus the vehicle can prevent driving away while connected)[/FONT]*_
_[FONT=&quot]control pilot functions begin [/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]supply equipment detects plug-in electric vehicle[/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]supply equipment indicates to PEV readiness to supply energy[/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]PEV ventilation requirements are determined[/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]supply equipment current capacity provided to PEV[/FONT]_
 
_[FONT=&quot]PEV commands energy flow[/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]PEV and supply equipment continuously monitor continuity of safety ground[/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]charge continues as determined by PEV[/FONT]_
_[FONT=&quot]charge may be interrupted by disconnecting the plug from the vehicle[/FONT]_
_The charging station puts 12 volts on the contact pilot CP and the proximity pilot PP (also "Plug Present") measuring the voltage differences.
 The pilot line circuitry examples in SAE J1772:2001 show that the current loop CP-PE is connected permanently via a 2740 Ω resistor making for a voltage drop to from +12 V to +9 V when a cable is hooked up to the charging station which activates the wave generator. The charging is activated by the car by adding parallel 1300 Ω resistor resulting in a voltage drop to +6 V or by adding a parallel 270 Ω resistor for a required ventilation resulting in a voltage drop +3 V. Hence the charging station can react by only checking the voltage range present on the CP-PE loop._


PP is proximity pilot, or "plug present". It is used by the vehicle to sense the connection of the J1772 plug, not used by the EVSE, so it is not required to charge from an EVSE, and is not use on the EMW chargers or on the adapters that tucsonev sells.

CP is contact pilot, which is used with the resistive divider on the EWM and on the tucsonev adapters.

The EVSE relay remains closed until you squeeze the trigger and remove the plug. If the charger is still charging, I turn it off (push LHS button twice) prior to disconnecting. The pilot pin breaks connection before the power pins, opening the EVSE relay to prevent arcing. I did forget to turn the charger off once...no problem, no arcing.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm not sure how commercial EVSE charging stations do it, but the EMW JuiceBox uses two 5% 27k resistors as a divider across the 5V supply, and a 3.3 uF capacitor to smooth out (integrate) the AC portion of the signal, which is presented via a 100k 5% resistor from the Pilot sensing pin. The +/- 12V signal is created by a rail-to-rail op-amp fed by a precision +12V supply and a non-precision -12V regulator. Since these components are typically 5% carbon film with a large tempco, the JuiceBox must calibrate itself. The reading of the vehicle's state is by means of a heavily filtered DC signal which depends on the accuracy of the components (which for all EMW products are 5% carbon film). Since the EVSE and the charger in the vehicle may or may not be of the EMW design, there is the possibility of significant error in the measurements and misinterpretation of the handshaking by either device. The EMW charger uses a 1k resistor instead of the specified 882 ohms which increases the likelihood of erroneous results. 

I have not been informed of the reason for these design anomalies, but I suspect that it has been an attempt to cut costs (mostly by pennies), although in some cases expensive components have been used where much cheaper ones would be just as good for the purpose. 

After analyzing most of the hardware design (difficult because the schematics are incorrect/confusing), and some of the firmware, I would not purchase or use either of these products, and if I had them, I would make major changes to the boards and the firmware. It is not my intention to disrespect EMW, but I think these designs need thorough review and all possible problems should be pointed out. Valery should then either fully explain the operation and reason for the design to be as it is, or make changes as necessary for more reliable and safer operation.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

This is just an unbiased opinion, what is happening here is a common problem with most open source designs. Lack of documentation.
For one the designer knows the details and can change them assuming this will be obvious. For other, its an open source design so its given in a bit of "good faith" with no guarantees expressed.

I think the product is quite innovative, but the poor documentation makes it easier to start from scratch than to try and understand whats going on, which even to the designer should be an issue. I need to review my old PCB detail sheet each time I work on some after a few months. Its just humanly impossible to remember all versions.

I am also opinionated to the fact that these things should never be sold as kits, unless the buyer would agree to assume any risks. Because although Valery may be making only a few pence profit selling the kits, it is a considerable investment for a buyer and it may be quite frustrating if things don't go out so well. So everyone looses.

Lastly, the standard follows a protocol. I don't see why these things need to be calibrated at all, like mentioned by Old.DSMer. If the EVSE is putting out the correct duty cycle then the hardware should be able to work in closed loop without any adjustments, if not I agree with Paul that perhaps the design should be revised.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

tomofreno said:


> The EVSE relay remains closed until you squeeze the trigger and remove the plug. If the charger is still charging, I turn it off (push LHS button twice) prior to disconnecting. The pilot pin breaks connection before the power pins, opening the EVSE relay to prevent arcing. I did forget to turn the charger off once...no problem, no arcing.


I mentioned about that earlier. If the charger is said to be compatible with the J1772 protocol then one should not need to manually turn off the charger. 

I also have to disagree with the "no arcing" statement. The contactor, as a mechanical device will take a given time to open the circuit. It might not visibly arc when the plug fully leaves the connector, but its quite likely to do so before the plug is completely off.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

tomofreno said:


> PP is proximity pilot, or "plug present". It is used by the vehicle to sense the connection of the J1772 plug, not used by the EVSE, so it is not required to charge from an EVSE, and is not use on the EMW chargers or on the adapters that tucsonev sells.
> 
> CP is contact pilot, which is used with the resistive divider on the EWM and on the tucsonev adapters.
> 
> The EVSE relay remains closed until you squeeze the trigger and remove the plug. If the charger is still charging, I turn it off (push LHS button twice) prior to disconnecting. The pilot pin breaks connection before the power pins, opening the EVSE relay to prevent arcing. I did forget to turn the charger off once...no problem, no arcing.


Thanks tomofreno for the post summary...good info in those post numbers. I also reviewed your temp compensation code but didn't see the need for it at the time, since I was mostly charging from standard outlets and had addressed the input current problem.

You manually shut down your charger before disconnecting. I would like it to automatically shut down when the button is pressed. I currently don't see a way to do this with existing circuitry, so something external to the charger will be required. However, this is a preliminary statement since I have not thoroughly investigated.

I don't think the below was ever addressed:


valerun said:


> we take 4-5" long piece and fold in half with 2 halfs as close as possible to minimize inductance.
> 
> This will likely be replaced by a proper current sensing resistor soon.





cts_casemod said:


> Lastly, the standard follows a protocol. I don't see why these things need to be calibrated at all, like mentioned by Old.DSMer. If the EVSE is putting out the correct duty cycle then the hardware should be able to work in closed loop without any adjustments, if not I agree with Paul that perhaps the design should be revised.


Due to the measurement error in the input current described in the above quote regarding the current sensing resistor - I had to modify the software because with the standard parameters it was pulling more current that it thought it was. My build notes instructed a 2" long piece....not 4-5". This kicked 120V breakers. I need to make sure the input current is correct to avoid this problem on an EVSE.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I'm not sure how commercial EVSE charging stations do it, but the EMW JuiceBox uses two 5% 27k resistors as a divider across the 5V supply, and a 3.3 uF capacitor to smooth out (integrate) the AC portion of the signal, which is presented via a 100k 5% resistor from the Pilot sensing pin. The +/- 12V signal is created by a rail-to-rail op-amp fed by a precision +12V supply and a non-precision -12V regulator. Since these components are typically 5% carbon film with a large tempco, the JuiceBox must calibrate itself. The reading of the vehicle's state is by means of a heavily filtered DC signal which depends on the accuracy of the components (which for all EMW products are 5% carbon film). Since the EVSE and the charger in the vehicle may or may not be of the EMW design, there is the possibility of significant error in the measurements and misinterpretation of the handshaking by either device. The EMW charger uses a 1k resistor instead of the specified 882 ohms which increases the likelihood of erroneous results.


The last 500 units of JuiceBox have shipped using [nearly-all] SMT design with 1% tolerance parts. as will all future ones. 

We will be going to 1% tolerance SMT parts in V15 of the SmartCharge


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

cts_casemod said:


> I also have to disagree with the "no arcing" statement. The contactor, as a mechanical device will take a given time to open the circuit. It might not visibly arc when the plug fully leaves the connector, but its quite likely to do so before the plug is completely off.


 The documentation says the pilot pin is shorter than the power pins to cut power before the power pins disengage. Do you have data that shows that is incorrect?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Old.DSMer said:


> You manually shut down your charger before disconnecting. I would like it to automatically shut down when the button is pressed. I currently don't see a way to do this with existing circuitry, so something external to the charger will be required. However, this is a preliminary statement since I have not thoroughly investigated.


 Actually it has finished charging most of the time, so I just unplug it. Do you want it to power down, or just stop charging? If the latter you could just use the EOC pin that the BMS uses for HVC. If the former you could route the J1772 power through a 240VAC relay and trigger the relay to disconnect power from the charger after you signal the EOC pin to stop charging. Mine is routed through a 240VAC relay but for a different reason. I have a 240V/50A Marinco plug as well as J1772, the relay automatically switches between them when power is connected (240V coil).

I've been using the charger for over a year and over 200 charges with no issues. Have charged at public EVSE's around 3 dozen times - mostly Chargepoint and Clipper Creek. Very routine now. Vin reported on the charger screen is always within 3% of the actual AC voltage (measured with EKM) since I modified the code to compensate for temperature variation of the PC817, so I get max available power from the 208V and 240V EVSEs.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

valerun said:


> The last 500 units of JuiceBox have shipped using [nearly-all] SMT design with 1% tolerance parts. as will all future ones.
> 
> We will be going to 1% tolerance SMT parts in V15 of the SmartCharge


That is impressive. 

Are schematics and BOMs and PCB layouts available for these new units? It might help those who have earlier units to have access to this design so maybe they can make some "hacks" for better performance and reliability. 

Will there be other design improvements for the charger?

Good luck!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

From what I can see from the software, the charger V14 only reads the pilot signal duty cycle to determine the current capacity of the EVSE, but nothing else, so it will probably just continue its charging until the mains voltage is removed. This relies on the EVSE relay dropping out when the pilot signal is broken by removal of the plug, and it depends on the difference in length of the pilot pin and the main power pins, and how quickly it is removed, to determine if arcing may occur on the EVSE contactor or the pins. Here is the relevant code for the charger:


```
pinMode(pin_J1772, INPUT);

       case STATE_WAIT_TIMEOUT:
          printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CFG);
          
          // check J1772
          J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);
          if(J1772_dur>50) { // noise control. also, deals with the case when no J1772 signal present at all
            configuration.mainsC=0.06*J1772_dur+3; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6A input - this will work up to 48A
            if(LCD_on) {
              sprintf(str, "IN: %dV, %dA", int(mainsV), configuration.mainsC); myLCD->printStr(1, 7, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str);
            }
          }
          
          x=BtnTimeout(10, 3);

          if(x == 1) state = STATE_TOP_MENU; // some button was pressed
          if(x == 0) // nothing pressed
           { 
            state = STATE_CHARGE;
           }
          break;
```
The JuiceBox uses A0 to sense the pilot signal. Here is the relevant code:


```
// pinouts changed significantly between 8.7 and 8.9 versions. They will also change
// between 8.9 and 8.10 versions
//---------------- analog inputs
const byte pin_pV=0; // pilot signal sensed through a 3-element divider 
const byte pin_V=1; // input voltage 
const byte pin_C=2; // AC current - as measured by the current transformer
const byte pin_throttle=3; // wired to a R10 trimpot - setting 240V current
// pins A4 reserved for SPI comms to RTC chip
#ifdef trim120current
  const byte pin_throttle120=5; // when RTC is not used, this is an input used to set 120V target current (0-30A range)
#endif
// pins A6 / A7 will be used as A0 / A1 in 8.10
// on 8.9 PCBs, A6 / A7 are erroneously connected to relays - all boards need to be corrected at assembly time 
// by (1) not soldering Arduino's A6 / A7 to the PCB, (2) jumping A6 to D12, and (3) jumping A7 to D13
// on 8.10 PCBs, the relays will be moved to A0 / A1 that can be used as digital outputs
// A0 and A1 functions will in turn be moved to A6 and A7

// read the average pilot voltage - this is a BLOCKING CALL (200ms)
// time constant of the RC filter: 27k/2 * 3.3uF = ~0.04s - enough to smooth 1kHz signal
float read_pV() {
  // ensure settling of the signal before measurement
  delay(100); // this is ~2.5 time constants of the RC filter on this pin - measured value should be within 2% of its settled value
  int reading=analogRead(pin_pV); // this takes 100uS
  // for anti-noise, read 180 degree off the prev reading 
  // (integer number of milliseconds + 500 uS (half-PWM-period) - ADC conversion time)
  delayMicroseconds(2500); 
  reading+=analogRead(pin_pV);
  float V_Ard_pin=reading*Aref/1024./2;

  V_J1772_pin_=(2*V_Ard_pin-5)*divider_pV_R+V_Ard_pin;

  return V_J1772_pin_;
}
```


```
//---------------------------- calibrate state boundaries ---------------------------------------------
  // first, need to record a minimum value of the wave - needed for pilot voltage measurement later on
  // set output pin to negative rail
  setPilot(0); // this should produce a steady -12V signal on a pilot pin
  pV_min=read_pV(); // this is supposed to be -12V

  // now calibrate the pilot voltage thresholds based on the actual voltage of positive rail 
  // calibration is done at every power-up
  setPilot(PWM_FULLON); // this should produce a steady +12V signal on a pilot pin
  float pVcal=read_pV();
#ifdef DEBUG
  sprintf(str, "pV: %d", int(pVcal*1000)); 
  printJBstr(0, 9, 2, 0x1f, 0, 0, str);      
#endif  

  // set default thresholds for pilot signal levels
  state_A_Vmin=def_state_A_Vmin; state_A_Vmax=def_state_A_Vmax; 
  state_B_Vmin=def_state_B_Vmin; state_B_Vmax=def_state_B_Vmax; 
  state_C_Vmin=def_state_C_Vmin; state_C_Vmax=def_state_C_Vmax; 
  state_D_Vmin=def_state_D_Vmin; state_D_Vmax=def_state_D_Vmax; 
  state_E_Vmin=-1.5, state_E_Vmax=1.5; 
  state_F_Vmin=-14., state_F_Vmax=-10.; 
  
  // recalibrate the pilot sensing code. helps fight any possible temperature / aging drifts
  // but only do it if it's not too far off - this will prevent recalibration in case the power 
  // cycles while the JuiceBox is plugged into the car
  // note that this will mean that the JuiceBox would not be able to recalibrate if the pilot is more than 
  // 10% off (unlikely with a precision 12V regulator used and R-R op amp)
  if(pVcal>def_state_B_Vmax) {  
    pVcal/=12.; // calibration constant
    // now adjust boundaries for top being not 12V
    state_A_Vmin=def_state_A_Vmin*pVcal;  state_A_Vmax=def_state_A_Vmax*pVcal; 
    state_B_Vmin=def_state_B_Vmin*pVcal;  state_B_Vmax=def_state_B_Vmax*pVcal; 
    state_C_Vmin=def_state_C_Vmin*pVcal;  state_C_Vmax=def_state_C_Vmax*pVcal; 
    state_D_Vmin=def_state_D_Vmin*pVcal;  state_D_Vmax=def_state_D_Vmax*pVcal; 
    state_E_Vmin=-1.5, state_E_Vmax=1.5; 
    state_F_Vmin=-14., state_F_Vmax=-10.; 
  }
```


```
if(state==STATE_C) {
      // entering charging state - check for diode
      setPilot(PWM_FULLON/2); // set a 50% duty so we have the easiest conditions for a diode test 
      if(read_pV()>-1.5) { // top is +6V, bottom is -12V, 50% duty -> average should be -3V; cut midpoint and test
        state=STATE_F; // diode check failure!
      } 
      energy=0; // reset energy counter for this cycle  
      timer=millis(); // start timer
      timer0=timer; // remember the start of charge
    }

// this will block for ~200ms due to read_pV()
int getState() {
  byte mode=1; // PWM is on 
  if(set_duty==PWM_FULLON) mode=0; // PWM is off
  
  float pV=read_pV();
  
#ifdef DEBUG
//  sprintf(str, "raw pV=%d, ", int(pV*1000));
//  printJBstr(0, 10, 2, 0x1f, 0, 0, str);      
#endif

  // in mode=1, the state is measured while pilot is oscillating so need to recalc
  // this should operate on the actual duty cycle (set_duty)
  // pV=pV_min*(1-duty)+pV_max*duty
  // so pV_max=(pV-pV_min*(1-duty))/duty
  if(mode==1) pV=((pV-pV_min)*PWM_res+pV_min*set_duty)/set_duty;
  
#ifdef DEBUG
//  sprintf(str, "calc pV=%d", int(pV*1000));
//  printJBstr(0, 11, 2, 0x1f, 0, 0, str);      
#endif

  if(pV>state_A_Vmin && pV<=state_A_Vmax) return STATE_A;
  if(pV>state_B_Vmin && pV<=state_B_Vmax) return STATE_B;
  if(pV>state_C_Vmin && pV<=state_C_Vmax) return STATE_C;
  if(pV>state_D_Vmin && pV<=state_D_Vmax) return STATE_D;
  if(pV>state_E_Vmin && pV<=state_E_Vmax) return STATE_E;
  if(pV>state_F_Vmin && pV<=state_F_Vmax) return STATE_F;

  return STATE_INVALID;
}
```
So it seems that all of this will take quite some time, at least 200 mSec, before any decision is made to disconnect the power out of the JuiceBox. Also, the 12V relay is driven by 15V, which causes greater saturation of the coil, and the commutatiing diode will maintain enough current to hold the relay in for a considerable amount of time. It may also open slowly, and possibly stick due to magnetization, which can cause contact arcing and deterioration.

The JuiceBox only supplies 120 or 240 VAC, which is easier on the contacts than DC, and there is not a lot of inductance in the circuit, although there is a 150 uH inductor in the PFC circuit. I don't know how the non-PFC circuit would behave if it is trying to charge the battery pack when power is suddenly removed, but it would be better if the PWM would be turned off when the disconnect is sensed.


----------



## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

tomofreno said:


> Actually it has finished charging most of the time, so I just unplug it. Do you want it to power down, or just stop charging? If the latter you could just use the EOC pin that the BMS uses for HVC.


I think its safest to have it power down. Or simple enough to just press the stop button. But if I ever forgot or some clown decided to unplug it from an EVSE, then I'd like to avoid arcing problems as much as possible. Right now using standard outlets, I always stop before removing or wait till complete. Using the EOC could work with some diodes to prevent interfering with the BMS.



tomofreno said:


> I've been using the charger for over a year and over 200 charges with no issues. Have charged at public EVSE's around 3 dozen times - mostly Chargepoint and Clipper Creek. Very routine now. Vin reported on the charger screen is always within 3% of the actual AC voltage (measured with EKM) since I modified the code to compensate for temperature variation of the PC817, so I get max available power from the 208V and 240V EVSEs.


Good to know and glad to hear you are working reliably. I had some issues early on, but have since applied some of Paul and Val's recommended updates. I hope to continue...fingers crossed.




PStechPaul said:


> From what I can see from the software, the charger V14 only reads the pilot signal duty cycle to determine the current capacity of the EVSE, but nothing else, so it will probably just continue its charging until the mains voltage is removed. This relies on the EVSE relay dropping out when the pilot signal is broken by removal of the plug, and it depends on the difference in length of the pilot pin and the main power pins, and how quickly it is removed, to determine if arcing may occur on the EVSE contactor or the pins. Here is the relevant code for the charger:
> 
> ......
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul, v12 handles it the same way, I believe. I'm sure you will agree that it would be best to come up with a method to stop the charger when the EVSE button on the handle is pressed - as per the J1772 standard.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The button on the handle could be wired in series with the pilot signal, which would mean that the EVSE would see that it was no longer connected and would (or should) shut down the power output. The EMW JuiceBox could be made to react quickly by sampling the actual square wave at the pilot signal point, which is easy to do because it is creating the waveform and the A/D can be triggered at each transition. Thus it could react within 1 mSec. Also, there could be a SSR to shut off the power, so it would stop within 1 cycle (16-20 mSec), and then the relay could drop out under a no current condition within 50-100 mSec for full disconnect of both AC lines. 

You can get a 40A 480VAC relay for about $10:
http://www.mpja.com/40A-480VAC-Solid-State-Relay/productinfo/31933 RL/

And a 4 pole 25A 480VAC mechanical relay (used) for $6:
http://www.mpja.com/24VDC-4PST-NO-PB-25A-Contactor/productinfo/18230 RL/

The EMW charger can be improved in many ways for little increase in cost. These have been discussed previously and are too numerous to reiterate in this post. As it is an open source design, it seems appropriate that customers and EV enthusiasts should be able to critique the design and make changes as suggested. I would like to see the latest and greatest documentation, at least the schematics, which of course must be done before even thinking about making a PCB and build notes. The schematic should be the controlling document, and should reflect every "hack" or other design change.


----------



## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Paul, I think your suggestion will work with the JuiceBox. And any cable where you can modify the wiring. However, I won't have that luxury with public charge stations.

I wonder if we can use the analog pin A4 (assigned to T2 which is not used - at least in my build). Perhaps it could be re-purposed to detect the voltage change when the button is pressed, as per the J1772 spec. Then simply calling the "stopPWM()" command would shut down the charger. Has anyone done this? I would imagine there is a way to re-start after a certain time period in case someone presses the button but does not remove the cable?


```
[color=#7E7E7E]//============================*HELPER*FUNCTIONS*====================================[/color]
[color=#7E7E7E]//*stop*output*in*a*controlled*fashion.*this*function*is*called*on*any*abnormal*event[/color]
[color=#CC6600]void[/color] stopPWM() {
**[color=#7E7E7E]// ramp down only to duty_crit as that spans the entire useful current range[/color]
**[color=#7E7E7E]// usually this is just 5-10% of the duty range, or <100 cycles[/color]
**[color=#7E7E7E]// therefore, can afford to use reasonable delay[/color]
**[color=#CC6600]for[/color]([color=#CC6600]int[/color] di=duty; di>duty_crit*0.9; di--) { [color=#7E7E7E]// additional safety factor of 0.9[/color]
****Timer1.setPwmDuty(pin_PWM,*di);
****[color=#CC6600]delay[/color](stepDelay0); [color=#7E7E7E]// default is 4ms[/color]
**}*
**[color=#7E7E7E]// now full reset[/color]
**duty=0;*
**Timer1.setPwmDuty(pin_PWM,*0);***********
}
```
There was also some discussion in post #1549 about the digital "shutdown" pin D6....but I'm not sure if/how this would work.

If anyone has done this - I would greatly appreciate some help. Otherwise, I'll continue to research/modify/test on my own accord.

Thanks in advance,
Old.DSMer


----------



## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

valerun said:


> There is a piece of code that does J1772 override - search for 'J1772' in the code. It uses Arduino's pulseIn function: http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/pulseIn
> 
> Note that it only handles the sub-54Amp section of the J1772 pilot mapping chart. Which, given the max rated power of this charger (12kW, or ~50A input power at 240V) is an ok comromise IMO.


I missed this post earlier - thanks Val, found it - good ol' "find" command


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I found the declaration in the Ver14.4 charger firmware but it's commented out and appears nowhere else. I could not find a date in the code except a 2014 copyright.

I think it may require a major rewrite of the code as well as some hardware tweaks to shut down the PWM quickly enough to save wear and tear on the public EVSE. I have some ideas for this design as well, but it's more complex and would take a major effort of time and materials. Since I'm not fluent with the Arduino I would have to learn more about it to be able to know what to do.

It looks like you might be able to use analog pins 3 or 4 to sense the voltage on the J1772 pin which now connects to digital input D7, but it will need a voltage divider and level shifter so the signal will be in the range of the ADC. It might be possible to add an RC filter but it's difficult to smooth out a square wave that varies so much. 

Another idea may be to implement a "missing pulse" detector on the D7 pin. There should be a high and low transition every 1 mSec, and implement the shutdown if these are missing. It looks like this pin is checked only during the initial STATE_WAIT_TIMEOUT. During the STATE_CHARGE the value of the pulse duration is used, but only if "drop110power" is defined, and the pin is not read.

This could be implemented on a PIC by using the Interrupt On Change feature so that each transition would cause an interrupt that sets a timer to a timeout value, and it could be decremented every 1 mSec. Thus a timeout value of 10 would shut down in 10 mSec if the pilot signal is lost. Any Arduino guys out there that could do this?

[re-edit] I looked at the functions for the Arduino and it seems that only higher level versions have extensive interrupt settings. The UNO has only two, on pins 2 and 3, which are used for the pushbuttons. But the interrupts are unused, so some pin swapping might work.

Another issue I found is that the internal reference for the ADC is not used, so all analog readings are ratiometric with respect to the +5V supply. The LM7805 is specified at about +/-4 to 5%, so this is another source of error. I also see that the analog conversion interrupt occurs at a 4 kHz rate although current readings are interleaved with other inputs which are sampled at a slower rate. There are floating point operations in the ISR which is generally not a good idea, and the operations being performed do not really need this, especially since the floating point values are then converted to integers.

Here is part of the code that performs the interleaved sampling:



```
if(tickerPWM1 & 0x1) {
     ADMUX |= pin_C;
     ADCSRA |= B11000000; // manually trigger next one
  } else {
    // Every parameter is measured every 16 cycles => 250 Hz measurement frequency for every variable
    // PID loop runs at the same frequency, as well    
    switch(tickerPWM1/2 & 0x7) {  
       // case set below is MISSING 0,4,7 - available for other sensors
       case 0: {
         // average outC
         if(fabs(outC)<1.) outC=readC(); // 
         outC=(outC*float(AVGCycles-1)+readC())/AVGCycles; 
         break;
       }
       case 1: {
         ADMUX |= pin_bV;
         ADCSRA |= B11000000; // manually trigger next one
         break;
       }
       case 2: {
         ADMUX |= pin_mV;
         ADCSRA |= B11000000; // manually trigger next one
         break;
```
Case 6 may be especially problematic because it performs a PID function, which may take longer than the 250 uSec between Timer1 ticks (apparently using a 4 kHz PWM). There is a separate ISR for the ADC and I'm not sure how they are synchronized. The ADC ISR mentions disabling interrupts until processing is complete, but it looks as if they are enabled as soon as the read is complete:


```
ISR(ADC_vect) { // Analog->Digital Conversion Complete
  byte ul, uh;
  cli(); // disable interrupt until function exit. otherwise nested interrupts...
  ul=ADCL;
  uh=ADCH;
  sei();
  
  unsigned int val= (uh << 8 | ul); // assuming ADLAR=0
  
  // just load things into the variables and exit interrupt - processing all in main loop
  // for most variable, average 2 values offset 180 degrees wrt haversine wave
  // for current measurement, average 16 measurements over 8ms, or one full haversine period
  switch(ADMUX & B00000111) {
   case pin_C: { // this is measured at 2kHz frequency
     if(outC_ADC==0) {
       outC_ADC_f=outC_ADC=val;
```
The sei() function looks like it sets the interrupt enable flag but I can't find it in the function list:
http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage

But it is here:
http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/AVR


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I think it may require a major rewrite of the code as well as some hardware tweaks to shut down the PWM quickly enough to save wear and tear on the public EVSE. I have some ideas for this design as well, but it's more complex and would take a major effort of time and materials. Since I'm not fluent with the Arduino I would have to learn more about it to be able to know what to do.


In the current code (PID-controlled V14), PWM can be shut down with 'normal' means in 4 milliseconds. Circa line 674 ('case 6:'), PID loop calculations process target current inputs etc, along with a PWM_enable flag.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I made some major edits on my last post on the previous page, and although I don't fully understand the code (yet), I found some issues that should be explained and addressed if my concerns are valid.

Also, I got to thinking about the safety of the male pins that may be exposed on the EV's charging inlet, but I see that they are connected to a FWB so the DC on the capacitors and batteries cannot flow back to these pins and create a hazard. Of course, if the diodes are leaky or shorted, it would present a major problem.

That brings up another concern. If the charger is hard wired to call for a full power charge from the EVSE, and if there is a failure of the components in the front end of the charger (diode bridge, capacitors, IGBTs), the EVSE would apply full power as soon as the pilot was connected. This could definitely cause a high current fault which would likely damage the contactor in the EVSE and/or cause its primary circuit protection components (fuses and/or circuit breakers) to activate. That's why the charger should be required to perform some basic self-tests before dropping the resistance of the J1772 pilot to call for full charge. If a public EVSE is damaged or if expensive fuses are blown, it would render it inoperable until serviced, and if a non-compliant home-made charger was found to have caused this, there could be serious liability issues. Valery, I hope you have sufficient liability insurance.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

tomofreno said:


> The documentation says the pilot pin is shorter than the power pins to cut power before the power pins disengage. *Do you have data that shows that is incorrect?*


Please quote where I said anything about that being incorrect.

Here's what I mentioned:
The contactor on the EVSE, as any mechanical device, will take some time to fully demagnetize and therefore wont cut the power as soon as the pilot pin is out. And of course the EVSE will take a certain time to actually realize the plug is out and switch the contactor off. 

So power is likely to be fully cut by the time one fully takes the plug out, which does not mean no arcing happens after the power connection is broken. 

Even with a solid state contactor, Assuming a 50Hz supply it could possibly take between 0 and 10ms depending on the angle of the AC supply.

The point is that the pilot was made smaller as a safety measure, to do exactly what you describe. It was not intended as a design feature to conveniently cut power without following the protocol. Anyone who does so, does it at his own risk.

Also on an earlier post I mentioned:



cts_casemod said:


> If you cut the pilot the EVSE contactor should open. [...] In such case you would only need a a NC switch. When you press, the circuit goes open, the pilot goes to 12V and power is cut before the cable is taken out.


A compliant EVSE should not re-apply power following this.

So its just really a case of this wasn't implemented because no attention was given to it, rather than not being feasible to accomplish and this is what am am criticizing.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I made some major edits on my last post on the previous page, and although I don't fully understand the code (yet), I found some issues that should be explained and addressed if my concerns are valid.
> 
> Also, I got to thinking about the safety of the male pins that may be exposed on the EV's charging inlet, but I see that they are connected to a FWB so the DC on the capacitors and batteries cannot flow back to these pins and create a hazard. Of course, if the diodes are leaky or shorted, it would present a major problem.
> 
> That brings up another concern. If the charger is hard wired to call for a full power charge from the EVSE, and if there is a failure of the components in the front end of the charger (diode bridge, capacitors, IGBTs), the EVSE would apply full power as soon as the pilot was connected. This could definitely cause a high current fault which would likely damage the contactor in the EVSE and/or cause its primary circuit protection components (fuses and/or circuit breakers) to activate. That's why the charger should be required to perform some basic self-tests before dropping the resistance of the J1772 pilot to call for full charge. If a public EVSE is damaged or if expensive fuses are blown, it would render it inoperable until serviced, and if a non-compliant home-made charger was found to have caused this, there could be serious liability issues. Valery, I hope you have sufficient liability insurance.


Seems to me that a way that could be avoided would be with an AC pre-charge. Let me go into details:

AC would flow into the charger trough a resistor to the bridge rectifier. The capacitors would slowly charge. The voltage drop across that resistor would be measured and the contactor would only be energized after it dropped to a small value such as 15 or 20V *AND* the capacitors were charged to at least 100V to comply with the auto-range capability.

After this the pre-charge relay/contactor would be closed and the charger enabled.

in the event of a short on the power components the maximum current draw would be given by the value of the series resistor. One could also place a thermal switch to cut power to the resistor should a overheat happen (it will, in case of a fault) and a timeout to trow an error if the pre-charge sequence failed or took longer than expected (leakage...).

I use a similar method for my charger, so proved and tested.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Excellent suggestion with the precharge resistor, and easily and inexpensively implemented. It would require a contactor across the resistor sufficient to carry the full charge current from the source, as well being able to withstand the full voltage applied, so that could be costly. If it were located on the AC side, it could be a less expensive AC relay, but if you used an EVSE that supplies DC, there could be a problem.

It would be a good idea for the EVSE to implement a soft-start means of applying power while monitoring the current into the vehicle and charger. This could be done by means of the SCR or TRIAC series control element I show in my design. It could be ramped up while maintaining no more than the maximum current per the specification, for a limited time as would be reasonable for charging the capacitors in the charger. 

The PFC circuit cannot control the current it produces, because the upper portion of the IGBT pair is used only as a diode. Thus the filter capacitors C1-C14 will draw current limited only by the off-board NTC current limiters, which function only for a brief time until they heat up and attain their lowest resistance. This current is measured by the driver board using the copper wire shunt R5, but it can only command the buck charge circuit to stop charging.

Perhaps a fuse on the input would be a good idea as well. But I like the idea of a precharge resistor instead of the limiters, and perhaps a solid state relay of sufficient size would be better than a relay. You can get a 40A 480V *DC* SSR for about $18:
http://www.mpja.com/40A-480VDC-Solid-State-Relay/productinfo/17289 RL/










It could be placed after the diode bridge and could even be operated using PWM for a "soft start" while charging the capacitors. And if the charger sees that they are not charging in a reasonable amount of time, it could be turned off and a fault signal could be presented to the EVSE to shut off the power. The SSR (or another IGBT) in this position could comprise an adjustable current regulator in conjunction with the PFC inductor L1, so that even with a shorted IGBT or capacitor bank, the current could be maintained at a safe level without saturating the inductor. 

_I like it!_


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> Excellent suggestion with the precharge resistor, and easily and inexpensively implemented. It would require a contactor across the resistor sufficient to carry the full charge current from the source, as well being able to withstand the full voltage applied, so that could be costly. If it were located on the AC side, it could be a less expensive AC relay, but if you used an EVSE that supplies DC, there could be a problem.
> 
> It would be a good idea for the EVSE to implement a soft-start means of applying power while monitoring the current into the vehicle and charger. This could be done by means of the SCR or TRIAC series control element I show in my design. It could be ramped up while maintaining no more than the maximum current per the specification, for a limited time as would be reasonable for charging the capacitors in the charger.
> 
> ...


Yes, I use a 3 phase contactor for the purpose, along with a MCB. Solid state relays, sadly dissipate a fair amount of power. For 10KW it would be considerable.

A Fuse is too slow, but a properly engineered charger will have IGBT desat protection. Assuming there is no fault with the primary and the capacitors are charged, the contactor is closed. A fault on the secondary would put the capacitor charge trough the IGBT which would immediately enter a short circuit desat condition. This is so fast it is undetectable by the input. Same as any intelligent power module.

Doing PWM with a short condition present is not a good idea. di/dt and dv/dt issues. The correct procedure is to turn of the IGBT slowly, so that the current is reduced gradually until zero. The other option is to start the IGBT with a small gate voltage, effectively working as a controlled resistor. Here the short circuit condition time is only limited by the ability of the device to stay within the thermal rating specs.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Since there is an inductor present (150 uH 50A), an IGBT or SSR could be turned on with 300 VDC into a short (or discharged capacitors) and the current would rise from 0 to 50 amps in 50*150/300 = 25 uSec, so a 50% duty cycle 20 kHz square wave should be adequate for discontinuous mode operation where all of the energy is transferred to the capacitors on every cycle. Properly done, a fast comparator reading inductor current could stop conduction when it reaches the peak value, and then resume once the current drops to zero. It could also run in continuous mode by starting again at a minimum value, perhaps half of the peak current. This can be done using a fixed PWM frequency or a free-running gate driver that maintains the same wave shape but adjusts frequency based on the measured setpoints. Very simple to implement, and works safely into a short circuit.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Essentially reassembling a buck converter. Good one.

The only issue I see is that the SSR is probably not fit to switch at anything higher than a few hertz, so perhaps a dedicated IGBT and gate driver would be necessary, which puts us on the same problem: these need to be inside the DC-Link, so a fault on the rectifiers could not be tested. For the AC link the fastest switch would be a SCR, so 10ms @ 50Hz minimum duty cycle.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It might be possible to use a Cuk converter with a single IGBT but two inductors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ćuk_converter










Or a SEPIC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-ended_primary-inductor_converter










The Cuk inverts the output, so that might be a problem, although there may be no reason why the input of the PFC could not be negative and the positive output used for the buck charger.

It might even be possible to eliminate the PFC section and use a buck converter with a free-running PWM based on current limits as described above, so that it would adjust the PWM for constant current on each point of the raw rectified AC waveform. Hmmm. Let me simulate that!


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

OK. Simulation done:










This shows a current regulated supply that limits input current to 21 amps peak with a 240 VAC input and provides a constant current into the 10 ohm load of 13A (133 VDC) with a 50 mV reference and 20 amps (196 VDC) with a 200 mV reference. Notice that it does this without any filter capacitors on the output of the bridge rectifier, and only 300 uF on the output. It uses a single MOSFET (which could be an IGBT), and a simple optoisolator with a single op-amp and resistor to control the current.

Oops! I mistakenly use 100 mH instead of 100 uH. 

Well, it does work, but it's not very efficient and a 100 mH 50 amp inductor might be as big as your battery pack, and heavier!

I'll let this stand as it is and try it with the correct value inductor.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Would you be kind enough to zip up the .asc when you are happy with it and post it?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

OK. I changed the inductor to 100 uH. Also, the op-amp I had chosen (LT1494) was a micropower device with a gain-bandwidth product of only 2.7 *k*Hz! So I used an LT1498 with g-bw of 10 MHz. Much better! Now it switches at about 35 kHz, but it's still not very efficient and the output has a lot of ripple. Here's the simulation:










It now draws input current of 11.2A RMS for 12.6A output which varies from 79-152V, and the MOSFET dissipates 192W for 1600W output. But that's 89% efficiency and it's a really crappy MOSFET drive circuit. 

For the higher output setting, it draws 18.5A RMS for 17.3A output which varies from 93-227V, and the MOSFET dissipates 284W for 3000W output. That is actually not too shabby with 91% efficiency. And the MOSFET I chose for this simulation has 0.125 ohms Ron, and is only a 200V device, so that could be improved as well. I'm going to try some tweaks and see if I can get better performance.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Whew. Made a lot of changes, but they're all good. I am now using a "proper" high side MOSFET driver which eliminates the slow optoisolator. Have a look:










Well, the MOSFET is still running hot, about 600 watts. The gate drive is definitely too slow, probably the 10 ohm gate resistor. It's running at 21 kHz. The low setting outputs 118V and 11.8A, varying from 10.4-12.8. At the high setting it is 13.3-16.4 amps.

Here is the new simulation:










Ah, much better. Low setting 10.4A, 104V, 26.6 kHz, 267W in the MOSFET, about 79% efficient. High setting 14.7A (13.6-15.5) and 331W losses, so 2250 watts out and 86.5% efficiency. 29.5 kHz.

I have the hysteresis of the comparator set so the inductor current varies between 28 and 5.4 amps:










You can see the gate drive waveform in tan on the bottom.

Here's the latest ASCII file:
http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/240Sine-320DC_PFC_Charger.asc


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I doubled the hysteresis using 1k and 50k, and doubled the output by using a 0.01 ohm sampling resistor:










16.8 amps output, 2.9 kW, 180W on the MOSFET, almost 97% efficient. 13 kHz at the peaks, 1.2 kHz at the minimum. Inductor current swings from -1.4 amps to +44 amps.

At the maximum output, the MOSFET shows 170 watts. Input is 5 kW, 28.9A at 240V or 6.94 kVA, or 72% PF. 21.7A RMS output 4.71 kW. Efficiency is 94.2%. Output current variation 15 to 28 amps. Output voltage varies from 144 to 280V. 










So ripple might be a problem, but probably can be fixed with more capacitance or higher inductance. To emulate the 12 kW EMW charger I will need to use a 2 ohm load, where 12 kW will be 154V. These simulations take a while, so I'll post again when I have results.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

OK, simulation done:










Note that the output ramps up with the control voltage to 100 mSec, and then remains steady at 32 to 34 amps to 200 mSec. At that point it quickly reaches the maximum of 60A peak with drops to 40A. At the 400 mSec point, control voltage drops to zero, and the output drops within 15 mSec to its minimum of 12.7 amps. I think this is due to the hysteresis, and can probably be set to practically zero with a negative control voltage or a positive bias on one of the op-amp (comparator) pins. 

The first part has 2.71 kW in and 2.24 kW out, for 82.6% efficiency (with 426W in the MOSFET). Inductor current varies from 17 to 53 amps, and frequency is 14.6 kHz. Input current is 20.4 A or 4.89 kVA and 55% PF.

The second part has 6.85 kW in and 6.11 kW out, for 89.2% efficiency (with 694W in the MOSFET). Inductor current varies from 45 to 78 amps, and frequency is 21.2 kHz. Input current is 48.6 A or 11.7 kVA and 59% PF.

Finally there is 513W in and 345W out, for 67% efficiency. Inductor varies from 0 to 36.4A, and 47 uSec at 0, with frequency 5.44 kHz.

I gotta build one of these!

[edit] I also ran it with a 0.1 ohm output, and the first level is 37.4A RMS and the second is 66.6A RMS. The input is 890W and output is 444W, and it runs at 3 kHz. So it is essentially the same into a short circuit.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I was thinking that perhaps it would make sense to use a dedicated micro such as an AT90PMW and implement the PFC section altogether from scratch. This could include the protection and driving circuit. More yet, for LV batteries, one could change to Buck PFC instead of boost.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It looks like the buck PFC converter is a good choice for the front end in any case, since it can easily stop current draw on the input and it's short-circuit proof on the output. Once you have a fairly good DC supply with good PF, it is rather easy to make a boost current regulator if you need higher voltage output. I did that for a constant current driver for 13 high power white LEDs in series, from a 12V battery to about 50V for the LEDs. About 40 watts with a circuit about 1/2" x 1" x 2.5" that fit into a flashlight.

Perhaps the charger should use an isolated output design, where the transformer can be designed for buck or boost. The transformer can be made with high inductance (no magnetic gap) for energy transfer, or lower inductance for energy storage and release as a SEPIC or Cuk or flyback design. 

The combination of these two circuits could be adapted to almost any input voltage, AC or DC, to generate any DC output voltage or current. Thus it could make a battery pack charger from any EVSE or AC supply, or it could be a DC-DC converter for pack voltage to auxiliary battery, or as I want, a converter from 48 VDC to 300 or 600 VDC for a VFD and AC motor.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I agree with having a buck/boost auto-range pfc rather than having both a boost stage and a buck stage on top of it. Efficiency wise one only has losses in one stage, rather than two. Also the pre-charge inrush can be limited.

But lets not forget that a fault at the primary IGBT could potentially connect the input directly to the output, defeating the purpose mentioned on last posts, unless the contactor/resistor is kept.

Using a buck frontend also has the disadvantage of a limited BUS voltage resulting on higher losses on the switching devices. Plus a buck device is never as good cleaning harmonics as a boost, since it acts as a simple rectifier when the supply is lower than the output.

What could fit the bill nicely would be a transformer based PFC. These are rare but they do exist. Basically a single stage transformer SPMS. The AC ripple does aper on the output but for a charger thats not really an issue.

Of course the whole thing is current regulated rather than voltage, to keep the sinusoidal current draw from the input.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The buck current supply shown here does have issues as you mention, and I agree that a precharge current limiter would be a good idea. The EVSE and the charger have switching power supplies with front-end rectifiers and capacitors of some size, so they will also pull some significant current when first powered. A PFC type may have some limiting, and the NTC type current limiters may be appropriate for that since a 15 watt supply will only draw about 150 mA from a 120V line.

This design is limited to about 100V for 120VAC input and 200V for 240VAC. A voltage doubler stage could be used, but that requires large capacitors and has poor PF. Also, the output is basically current regulated, so if a separate DC-DC boost circuit is used for charging, it would have to be able to work on a current source, or the front end would need to have additional circuitry to adjust the PWM for regulated voltage output. This might just involve a voltage feedback to the current mode comparator such that it can further reduce the PWM to get the voltage needed, while the current mode circuit will limit the maximum current.

There are ICs that use similar means for switching circuits, and I think they usually use a fixed frequency. I do think that a hardware based topology such as this will be simpler, cheaper, more reliable, and safer than a firmware based PWM, although I did use a PIC successfully for one of the flashlight LED boost converters, and I tried using a UC1843a or similar device which had problems for some reason.

Every circuit has failure modes that may cause major problems. The EMW PF front end could cause a high current fault if the controlling IGBT shorted, and the output capacitors (6000 uF) will be charged to at least the peak AC or DC voltage of the input supply through the series inductor and the diode half of the IGBT. 

An input precharge resistor and relay seems like an excellent idea, and may be safely and cheaply implemented with one or more of the little $3 30A 277V relays Valery found. Since they will normally only need to withstand the maximum voltage of the supply for a while, and then will close with a low voltage, they should be OK. If it opens while current is flowing, there could be arcing, but a properly designed snubber can reduce that to a safe level.

The buck current converter can shut off current flow before opening the relay, and the input current can be controlled. However, there will still be some capacitance across the diode bridge, so the precharge will be necessary (or at least advisable). Failure of the IGBT shorted will connect the input to the output, but this is not a dangerous condition if a second charger stage is still operable to limit voltage and current to the battery pack. The greatest danger would be a large overvoltage without effective current limiting into the battery pack. 

With the EMW design, the input to the buck converter will normally be 340-380 VDC, but it cannot go below the rectified peak voltage of the input, which is 180 to 360 VDC, even if the boost IGBT is shut down. A shorted capacitor C1-C14 will cause a high current fault on the input, which might be controlled by opening the precharge relay, but the precharge resistor would need to survive continuous application of the input voltage. This is where an additional main contactor may be advisable for a total disconnect. Two of the little 30A relays might be sufficient.

As for protecting the battery pack, a failure of the series IGBT of the charger will apply the full voltage of the PFC stage (or rectified mains without PFC) through the inductor L2 and the optional output diode into the battery pack. The voltage and current are monitored by the Arduino and it may react by trying to shut down the PWM, but this is futile if it's shorted. So the only protection for the battery pack is whatever fusing or other device is incorporated in the vehicle, and that is probably a 300 amp or larger fuse, which will not do anything for a destructive charge current of several hundred amps from the charger and EVSE. 

The charger could shut down the EVSE under such conditions, but cannot do so as presently designed. What may be needed is an overvoltage "crowbar" which connects a high current SCR across the filter capacitors C15-C18, or possibly by turning ON the other IGBT which is now used only as a diode. This crowbar could be triggered by either an overvoltage or overcurrent condition. This protection should be implemented by simple analog circuitry and not by the Arduino or other controller, as it needs to act quickly and independent of the "brain" which can also fail.

Some of the other topologies have distinct advantages. 

An isolated charger is inherently safe because it cannot provide output unless the input is functioning. Any failure or fault condition would result in stopping the PWM to the transformer and at worst would supply DC which would destroy the primary winding, although a fuse would probably prevent that.

Any of the topologies that have a series capacitor (SEPIC or Cuk) cannot supply DC to the output if the PWM is not working. These also have the advantage of being able to work in boost or buck mode, so with a low voltage from the PFC stage or the EVSE directly, the output voltage for any battery pack can be obtained. They can also be made with a transformer for isolation and I think that is highly advised.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> There are ICs that use similar means for switching circuits, and I think they usually use a fixed frequency. I do think that a hardware based topology such as this will be simpler, cheaper, more reliable, and safer than a firmware based PWM, although I did use a PIC successfully for one of the flashlight LED boost converters, and I tried using a UC1843a or similar device which had problems for some reason.


I was mentioning a custom microprocessor with hardware drivers, rather than a software approach. These work independently of the microprocessor and can be triggered by one of the hardware comparators on chip.

Some DSPIC30/33 Series also have them. I am using one for my new motor controller. On top of that I also use a flip flop and a buffer to disable the output should a fault occur, for example an overvoltage/overcurrent. This is just me being paranoiac with safety.



PStechPaul said:


> An input precharge resistor and relay seems like an excellent idea, and may be safely and cheaply implemented with one or more of the little $3 30A 277V relays Valery found. Since they will normally only need to withstand the maximum voltage of the supply for a while, and then will close with a low voltage, they should be OK. If it opens while current is flowing, there could be arcing, but a properly designed snubber can reduce that to a safe level.


Paul, I have to disagree with you on that one.
If you are having this aproach about safety using a cheap relay is not the way to go. I would never use anything less than what the EVSE uses which is a heavy duty contactor capable of breaking the connection under load.

They need to withstand the full current, which is more than 30A, and possibly being de-rated for operation in a closed space at continuous power, under high temperatures


PStechPaul said:


> As for protecting the battery pack, a failure of the series IGBT of the charger will apply the full voltage of the PFC stage (or rectified mains without PFC) through the inductor L2 and the optional output diode into the battery pack. The voltage and current are monitored by the Arduino and it may react by trying to shut down the PWM, but this is futile if it's shorted. So the only protection for the battery pack is whatever fusing or other device is incorporated in the vehicle, and that is probably a 300 amp or larger fuse, which will not do anything for a destructive charge current of several hundred amps from the charger and EVSE.


I use a separate fuse from the charger to the Battery pack, and as you mentioned a SCR built into the charger, shorts the output should the voltage rise too much. This is set to trigger at 480VDC. The charger should stop at 440V. Other voltages can easily be implemented.

Thankfully never used. 

This setup doesn't blow the battery pack fuse, but rather a fuse from the charger to the battery, which is a fast DC fuse with a rating of 1.5x the charger maximum current. There is also another fuse on the input, sized accordingly, in case the bridge rectifier shorts. Just a standard 415V AC fuse.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I agree that the little cheap relay may not be adequate, especially for a safety disconnect. But it is sure better than nothing, and will handle the lower power versions 120V 20A (2.4 kW) and 240V 30A (7.5 kW). And for safety, the pilot signal should be used to drop power from the EVSE in case of a fault.

The output fuse in conjunction with a crowbar is certainly highly recommended. I just wanted to point out some of the dangers of the EMW charger and EVSE as presently implemented. Some of these safety measures might be added to the units in the field, and if I get CrackerJacks's charger or the boards and parts from Valery, I'll document what can and should be done for the V12-V14 builds.

Maybe it can be done mostly with external parts or simple kludges on the boards, along with firmware modifications, but perhaps a small add-on board would make sense. However, it may be better to make a new control/power board that is compatible with the existing Arduino and display and perhaps other more costly parts (like the DC-DC converters) that might be unsoldered from the existing boards and reused. 

If there is enough demand for this, it might be possible to purchase a quantity of boards to bring the cost down to less than $20 each and the parts might be another $20. I haven't examined the V15 schematics or boards because they don't seem to be available yet, so I can't say if they will address the concerns I have mentioned.

Maybe they are in the new DipTrace format, but I still don't know where to get them. Even if they are no longer offered as a kit, I would want to have a complete schematic and board layout and test/cal/troubleshoot procedures before I'd consider buying one. I assume it's still open source?


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I reckon most of this changes would be better suited for a board rev. At least for safety purposes. Otherwise everyone would have a different component/feature and we would be back to square one.

Are there any [working] schematics on-line? If there is an effort to really make this open source then I'm willing to contribute towards some re-design features. As it stands, currently, there is not much open source about these chargers. If I were to try and design my own I wouldn't not be able to and the same is valid for any changes... Although as I was clear before I am not really into a lot of the stuff currently implemented, so a redesign would make more sense, specially the control section with the arduino and a new front end with all the protections we discussed and 3 separate PFC regulators to be able to fully use a 21KW Level 2 EVSE, rather than being limited to 7KW. This could easily be paralleled for operation from a single phase supply.

I am not up to date with the latest versions of the emw charger. Is the new PFC version redesigned from scratch or just a front end as the previous one?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Haven't heard from Valery for a while. He posted a link to the V14 schematics in DipTrace about 10 pages back, and there are also PDFs of these schematics. But they don't seem to be significantly different from V12-13. He said that the V15 schematics and boards were being worked on (and I think they were started in April). It would be very helpful for an open source project to post the most recent documentation as they are being worked on, so that others may see the details and possibly find problems and make corrections before they "go live" and boards are made and assembled in volume. So here is the latest AFAIK:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing


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## araizis (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi Valery,
My EV is now completed, and the V9 10kw/60A DIY charger is 99% complete. Just a few minor issues that we need clarification on.
(1) The Control unit schematic (Rev 4.0 6/23/2011) is that the correct schematic for the V9 charger
(2) Is R44 (on controller) meant to be 330 ohms or 220 ohms
(3) Is R44 connected to "old out" to go to the power board and if so where?
(4) Does "G" on the Power Board connect to common (Pin 4 of U3 (LM211))?
(5) There is only one 82k (2 watt) resistor on the PFC power board, but the "Rev 1.0) shows two (one is R4). Should there be one or two?

Thanks very much for all your help and fine work,

Tony


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

Just to let everyone know .... Today is monday ... I got an email friday that emw would send me a prototype driver board that has been tested to work in the v12 12 kilowatt non pfc charger ... It was suppose to ship out today ... To be continued  ...


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## dgh853 (Sep 9, 2014)

I've recently purchased a built SmartCharge 12000 but need to add some input resistors to the AC lines (running three phase and a separate HV capacitor bank) as the circuit trips whenever I connect it to the 3 phase outlet.

Valery has provided the resistors but I don't know how they need to be connected to the AC lines and there is nothing in the documentation to describe it let alone sample pictures. Do I need to include them in some sort of junction box outside the charger between the 3 phase outlet and the 3 AC cables (and ground) going into the charger.

Alternatively if I plan to use just single phase can I just disconnect the HV capacitor bank and ignore resistors and connect to 240V (Australian standard) single phase

Thanks in advance,
David


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If you are running three phase, you really don't need the large capacitor bank (13x 560 uF). It will probably work fine with just one of these capacitors. But you will need a three phase rectifier, and I don't see that on the schematic. 

Hopefully Valery can let you know what he recommends.

BTW, I noticed that the current sensor for the PFC power board has its ground (IsG) at the output of the section, and the other end (used for IsS) is at the negative terminal of the rectifier bridge. Thus any current drawn from the PFC section will cause a negative voltage at this point. On the Driver board the signals are labeled Isn+ and Isn- and this is further filtered and connected to the I_sense (pin 3) of PFC device IR1153s. But I see that this is correct according to the datasheet:
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/ir1153.pdf

and here is the app note:
http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1167.pdf

I see that the current sense resistor is just a few inches of #10AWG copper, which has 0.001 ohms/ft, so it is probably 500 uOhms. The current limit for a 0.0188 ohm resistor, according to the app note, is 43 amps. Thus 500 uOhms would be about 40 times that, or more than 1600 amps. Can this be correct?


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

dgh853 said:


> I've recently purchased a built SmartCharge 12000 but need to add some input resistors to the AC lines (running three phase and a separate HV capacitor bank) as the circuit trips whenever I connect it to the 3 phase outlet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





They must be in series with the ac lines ... Place them to be cooled by the fans and away from any danger ... They get very hot ... Theres a section in the instructions with a few minor details ... I placed them in junctions lugs on the frame of the charger in the path of the fans ....














Hopefully someone can confirm my installation to be approriate ?


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## dgh853 (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks. Used similar setup to crackerjackz and all working well now (60A terminal block).

Hooray - can now Fast Charge my Zero SR!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I just found the PC boards Valery had shipped to me - they went FedEx on Oct 15 and they had put the package on the porch of my other house/workshop where I was using the lathe yesterday. Here's what I got:










Here's a control board with the Arduino socket. I could not find any markings with the version number, so I don't know if they are older than the V12 I got from CrackerJackz, or a new version. Does anyone know?



















Two driver PCBs, same layout, no version markings, configured differently:










And a Power board:










Once I figure out what version these are, and which schematics correspond to them, I'll see what I can do with them. I will need to find out what parts I may need and get some on order, and then perhaps I'll mock up a low power version of the charger so I can make some measurements and see what's going on. But it would be far easier, and perhaps more productive, to have a mostly complete charger that just needs troubleshooting and repair. 

I'll also have to get another Arduino and an FTDI bridge so I can play around with the firmware and learn about how to program it and use it. Then my goals might be:

1. Make a control board that runs the Arduino code and shows something on the display.

2. Simulate the signals for maxC, Vsense, and Csense. I think the shutdown and UVLO are not used. I should be able to get a PWM signal based on the inputs.

3. Build a basic driver board and analyze the input voltage sensing circuit with the PC817 Opto, with Vbop in and mvOut to an analog pin of the Arduino.

4. Obtain a valid gate driver signal for the buck converter. The power board shows this as G1, but the driver board uses G2 for PFC, so I think it is actually G1, which is derived from OldIn, which comes from OldOut. 

5. Build a basic Power Board with an IGBT half-bridge, buck inductor, and some capacitors. I may need to get a 100A Allegro Hall Effect current sensor to make it work, although I may have something I can use.

6. Once these basic elements are functional, I might be able to get the firmware to play nice with the hardware and get a working buck converter. 

However, I would rather just proceed with an alternate design that does not require so much control from the Arduino, and use it only for basic monitoring and control of a separate hardware based buck circuit.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

... Id send you my charger paul but its like 150$ to send it  ... Valery just sent my new driver board last week ... I have hopes i can get it all working when i receive it :s .... Ill be doing a few oscilloscope tests on the power and control conponents before hooking up another 100$ igbt ... But i have to give this a last shot before i send it your way ....


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## araizis (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi Valery,

On closer inspection of instructions, I think I can now answer my own questions:

(1) The Control unit schematic (Rev 4.0 6/23/2011) is that the correct schematic for the V9 charger 

Ans: It is the correct schematic, but it has an error on it, which is confusing. The old out goes to the power board on the schematic, when it should be to the old in on the driver board.

(2) Is R44 (on controller) meant to be 330 ohms or 220 ohms

Ans: 220 ohms

(3) Is R44 connected to "old out" to go to the power board and if so where?

Ans: already answered in question 1

(4) Does "G" on the Power Board connect to common (Pin 4 of U3 (LM211))?

Ans: Yes. But the schematic has an error, as LM211 should be U9, not U3.

(5) There is only one 82k (2 watt) resistor on the PFC power board, but the "Rev 1.0) shows two (one is R4). Should there be one or two?

Ans: 1 for PFC and two for non-PFC

Cheers
Tony


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## araizis (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi Valery,

I am confident that the unit is assembled correctly. I have successfully compiled and upoaded the firmware of version 9, but the menu doesn't come up on the arduino with just standard 12 volt power supplied. 

1) Does it require any input signals from anywhere else to function properly, or should it work with just 12 volts and nothing else?

2) Should the green light on the control board flash when working properly, or should it stay off?

3) There are two files in the firmware directory one dated on the 5th Jan one on the 9th. Which one of these is the correct one to upload as trying to do both comes up with an error message. I have tried both individually, but no sign of the menu with either, so wondering I might have made a mistake with the hardware somewhere.

Thanks again.

Tony


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## dgh853 (Sep 9, 2014)

Can anyone conform how the input wires work for 230v single phase in Australia or Europe where it's one live wire one neutral and one earth. Are both the neutral and live connected to the AC input area or do I need to connect just the live single wire (and earth to a ground on the box).

The documentation refers to a minimum of two inputs but this is for USA split phase where there are two live wires to make 240v.

My unit is 3 phase cable and works with 3 live wires but wanted to use with only single phase for a while. 

Thanks.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Last night I bought an Arduino UNO, an FTDI adapter, and a Motor drive shield. I installed the software and was able to play with the simple "blink" sketch. I modified the sketch to change the blink rate, and I saved it in the Arduino folder in My Documents. I had some problems with the software finding the correct serial port COM7. It started with COM1 (which is not installed), and then I selected COM4 (which is actually the Bluetooth port). It just hung up trying to upload and never timed out or verified that it was progressing or had problems. 

I wanted to be able to download the firmware from the Arduino in binary or hex format, but I could not find any way to do that. It's not important for what I'm doing now, but I'd like to be able to save the image of the firmware in the Arduino Mini Pro that is in the control board for the charger that I got from CrackerJackz. 

There is some information here:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33433/how-to-read-the-current-program-from-an-arduino

It refers to a program called "avrdude" and a device called a "Dragon" and AVR studio and ISP. The Dragon is a programmer/debugger/emulator similar to the Microchip PICkit3, and costs $54. Probably a good investment for anyone doing serious work on the Arduino and Atmel AVR devices.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...NiUl38DfpSUdn5gR6VQb7z50kS8pQQJ8zwCQKkfKvQw==


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

dgh853 said:


> Can anyone conform how the input wires work for 230v single phase in Australia or Europe where it's one live wire one neutral and one earth. Are both the neutral and live connected to the AC input area or do I need to connect just the live single wire (and earth to a ground on the box).
> 
> The documentation refers to a minimum of two inputs but this is for USA split phase where there are two live wires to make 240v.
> 
> ...


In all reality, electrically the US split phase isn't really different than the European single phase 240v. In both cases the RMS voltage is 240v between the two wires. The only difference is that there is a ground or neutral wire in the US such that each of the power wires is only 120V to that neutral wire. The answer to your question is that you hook up your power and neutral wires to the AC inputs. This is no different than how you'd wire 120V power in the US - you just have twice the voltage. I think really bad things would happen if you left off the neutral wire and just used the case ground.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> Last night I bought an Arduino UNO, an FTDI adapter, and a Motor drive shield. I installed the software and was able to play with the simple "blink" sketch. I modified the sketch to change the blink rate, and I saved it in the Arduino folder in My Documents. I had some problems with the software finding the correct serial port COM7. It started with COM1 (which is not installed), and then I selected COM4 (which is actually the Bluetooth port). It just hung up trying to upload and never timed out or verified that it was progressing or had problems.


Yes, there can be a bit of a learning curve with Arduino. You'd think it'd be simpler since it is meant for the hobbyist and casual programmer but the whole serial port thing can be tricky for the beginner. 



> I wanted to be able to download the firmware from the Arduino in binary or hex format, but I could not find any way to do that. It's not important for what I'm doing now, but I'd like to be able to save the image of the firmware in the Arduino Mini Pro that is in the control board for the charger that I got from CrackerJackz.
> 
> There is some information here:
> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33433/how-to-read-the-current-program-from-an-arduino
> ...


I don't think you can download the firmware with avrdude and the Arduino bootloader. It seems like that doesn't quite work. You could do it with an AVR Dragon and ISP. I have a Dragon and they're pretty nice if a bit bare. The Dragon also supports JTAG which is handy. I actually have only ever used JTAG with the Dragon.

Apparently the Pro Mini has no ISP pins so you need to make your own like shown here: http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/MiniBootloader


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

You can get the binary via serial and bootloader, though the preferred method is via source and some version control (of code and tools, and hardware).

http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=6150.0


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valery ... could you please send me the tracking info on the driver board you sent me ... haven't had any news since ... just wondering where its at ... thanks ...


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## chong (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi 
just started my build here (V14). in the manual stated that there is a bug in the layout for the output sensor resistor, i attached the photo from the manual also the modified schematic. can anybody explain why such mod?
thx


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Valery was kind enough to send me some boards but unfortunately they were for older revisions so I don't have much to go on. But I think the schematic has C15 and C16 swapped, and the resistor and capacitor connect to the negative pin of C15, shown as C16 on the schematic. The negative pin of C16 is the center point between the DC supply and ground. It should not be connected there. C17 and C18 are also shown incorrectly on the schematic.

I am trying to help as much as I can since Valery is often unavailable for technical assistance, but since I do not have a charger or the latest boards there is only so much I can do. 

The build manual with the description of the "bug" is available at:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing

Here is an image of the PCB that may help explain the modification needed:










Note that the three resistors R8, R9, and R10 connect from the B+ to Vout, but it needs a resistor to GND (C15-) to form a voltage divider. This is 2.7k (R11). You may also need to add the filter capacitor C19-2 which is 0.01 uF. There is a note on the PCB drawing about adding the resistor, but it's hard to see with yellow on white background.

Hope this helps, and good luck!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi anyone, Valery...

I have been building NonPFC chargers now for some time and they work great even for 3phase. Though connected to only 3 positive diodes. On the other side N cable is connected directly to - output. This works up to 7kW but N cable gets very hot...

I ve been thinking... Does the 3phase rectified input mean anything to the PFC chip or would it consider as another DC connection input and open fully? 
Anyone knows what would happen if i connected PFC charger to 3phase bridge = 600VDC rail. Of course i would beef up the caps inductors and IGBTs. I could even replace driver with 1200V version. 
I dont want to waste my time with NonPFC anymore, since on single phase 3kW in EU inductor is not loaded enough hence it is only 70% efficient - cable losses. Effectivity rises upon 3phase connection due to heavier load and smoother DC link I suppose...

EDIT: I think i must explain further. I would not need PFC stage for 3phase, only when connected to single phase. I would like to know what would happen if i connected 3phase rectified input to PFC charger. Would it just let the current trough PFC module or would this cause it to stall?

tnx

A


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## dgh853 (Sep 9, 2014)

CKidder said:


> In all reality, electrically the US split phase isn't really different than the European single phase 240v. In both cases the RMS voltage is 240v between the two wires. The only difference is that there is a ground or neutral wire in the US such that each of the power wires is only 120V to that neutral wire. The answer to your question is that you hook up your power and neutral wires to the AC inputs. This is no different than how you'd wire 120V power in the US - you just have twice the voltage. I think really bad things would happen if you left off the neutral wire and just used the case ground.


Thanks, I did this but it reads 0 volts input on the tiny SmartCharge display. When I use 3 phase it reads pretty high at 464V.

Is it normal for these input readings to be out by so much or read zero - perhaps because mine was built with 3 phase in mind the voltage reading on single phase is out. I haven't tried to run the charger with 0 volts as I assume it would do nothing! Thoughts?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

On the other note 

I am now building NonPFC chargers with inductor mounted in a shroud directly in front of a fan opening. That way i maximize air cooling by increasing air speed on the surface of inductor. There is a tradeoff since the airspeed on heatsink is now reduced a bit, but i battle this with another fan at the other side of the box. Both fans are 230VAC and so consume only 30mA AC current. That also means i can just use small 1A PSU to power arduino.
The unit gets to 46°C at 52A 150VDC output = almost 8kW!!! And what is better, inductor is only warm to the touch!!!

I figure for PFC unit one could just mount another inductor to the intake of the first fan to maximize cooling even further.

Pictures follow...

enjoy

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

dgh853 said:


> Thanks, I did this but it reads 0 volts input on the tiny SmartCharge display. When I use 3 phase it reads pretty high at 464V.
> 
> Is it normal for these input readings to be out by so much or read zero - perhaps because mine was built with 3 phase in mind the voltage reading on single phase is out. I haven't tried to run the charger with 0 volts as I assume it would do nothing! Thoughts?


Hi

I am just curious about your 3phase build, i dont know about solution to your problem...
Can you post some pictures here of the inside of your charger? I would really like to see how a dedicated 3phase charger is different from normal PFC unit.

tnx

Arber


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## chong (Sep 17, 2014)

HI Paul,
really appreciate your reply, yes, it seems they swapped c15, 16 in the layout, but haven't done that in the schematic. 

Chong




PStechPaul said:


> Valery was kind enough to send me some boards but unfortunately they were for older revisions so I don't have much to go on. But I think the schematic has C15 and C16 swapped, and the resistor and capacitor connect to the negative pin of C15, shown as C16 on the schematic. The negative pin of C16 is the center point between the DC supply and ground. It should not be connected there. C17 and C18 are also shown incorrectly on the schematic.
> 
> I am trying to help as much as I can since Valery is often unavailable for technical assistance, but since I do not have a charger or the latest boards there is only so much I can do.
> 
> ...


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

I wanted to let everyone know that the German TÜV Nord was satisfied with the non-isolated version of the charger!

I made it explicit in the documentation that the charger is non-isolated.

It's one of the first kits.

Thanks again for making it available


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

araizis said:


> Hi Valery,
> 
> I am confident that the unit is assembled correctly. I have successfully compiled and upoaded the firmware of version 9, but the menu doesn't come up on the arduino with just standard 12 volt power supplied.
> 
> ...


hi Tony - did you have a confirmation of upload from Arduino IDE? Sounds like the firmware upload might not have succeeded and you just have an empty Arduino.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

crackerjackz said:


> valery ... could you please send me the tracking info on the driver board you sent me ... haven't had any news since ... just wondering where its at ... thanks ...


it went out a while ago... I would expect you to receive it by now.. Will check with my shipping guys for tracking.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

jhuebner said:


> I wanted to let everyone know that the German TÜV Nord was satisfied with the non-isolated version of the charger!
> 
> I made it explicit in the documentation that the charger is non-isolated.
> 
> ...


WOW! this is a great news, J! Can you post any of the docs / certificates here?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

chong said:


> HI Paul,
> really appreciate your reply, yes, it seems they swapped c15, 16 in the layout, but haven't done that in the schematic.
> 
> Chong


Hi Chong - 

This is not about C15/16 swap - those are connected in series and are interchangeable. 

The reason for the rework is the mistake on the board - the lower resistor of the Vout resistor divider was landed on the wrong power plane. It was landed on the HV positive instead of HV ground. If uncorrected, that would result in blowing up the HCPL-7520 isolating amp chip. The fix / rework is to connect that resistor (R11, 2.7k) to the HV ground plane which is tied to the negative lead of C15 (or any other place on the board connected to the same HV ground plane on the upper layer of the PCB).

Hope this makes sense. 

PS. I have also replied in the email regarding some tweaks to the BOM per your suggestions. Please check. Dorian is sending you some additional parts asap (today)

Thanks,
Valery.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

all - an additional round of cleanups was just done on the BOM / manual in the shared folder at https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing

Changes mostly affected BOM file (some slightly incorrect counts for ~4 parts). As we use BOM for packing reference, this may have resulted in shortage of 3-4 parts in recent shipments that have V14 driver boards.

There are also 2 changes to the manual:
1. gate resistor values changed to 2-5 Ohm from 10 Ohm. Using 2-5R results in lower heat losses and will make for an easier thermal regime for the unit
2. R5 on the power board has been changed to 2.7k (from 27k). This should improve the linearity of the input voltage sensing as 2.7k would provide some bias current for the U5 opto

Thanks,
Val


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

following suggestions from a few of you, we are now looking for a power electronics technician / engineer to help us with all of the above. The scope would include documentation maintenance, design iterations, and technical support. Most of the work will involve our B2B contracts, with some 'spillover' into DIY / open source. 

Requirements:
* EE - pending or earned
* hands-on experience with power electronics circuits
* experience with schematic capture & PCB layout tools

The closer to SF Bay Area, the better. 

Let me know if this could be a fit for any of you guys or someone you know.

Thanks,
Val


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dgh853 said:


> Thanks, I did this but it reads 0 volts input on the tiny SmartCharge display. When I use 3 phase it reads pretty high at 464V.
> 
> Is it normal for these input readings to be out by so much or read zero - perhaps because mine was built with 3 phase in mind the voltage reading on single phase is out. I haven't tried to run the charger with 0 volts as I assume it would do nothing! Thoughts?


Hi dgh - the input voltage sensing is imprecise. Its only purpose in SC-12K is to distinguish between 120V and 240V input so it can derate the power output. 

That said, you should not see zero when you apply 230VAC to it... This could be a calibration issue - please try to power up the unit while holding a green button. That will force reset to defaults of all EEPROM content. If that doesn't help, please post your photos of the screen. Or, better yet, a short video of the power-up sequence. 

Thanks,
Val


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi anyone, Valery...
> 
> I have been building NonPFC chargers now for some time and they work great even for 3phase. Though connected to only 3 positive diodes. On the other side N cable is connected directly to - output. This works up to 7kW but N cable gets very hot...
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - 

PFC chip would not care - it would still try to boost to the set PFC voltage. If the rectified voltage is higher than that set voltage, it would just sit there idle and not affect anything. 

So you will be fine. 

But, as you said, make sure that your caps and IGBTs have right ratings for 400V 3-phase input: you need at least 600V rating of the caps (we use 3 banks of 2200uF 200V caps in series for this) and 1200V IGBT. 

V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Val

I had interesting tought  those are always dangerous...
I drive 3phase AC motor and it is wired to cca 75V per phase, so the wire is quite thick! 
What if i used at least one (or two because it is wired as Y) of my motor windings as inductor for EMW charger.
I could wire my car so charger would be just bridge input caps, IGBT and output caps in really small box. Also water cooling becomes a real option, because we dont need to cool inductor by air!!!

The problem would be wires to and from motor. They could be cca 4m in length. Of course i could use 35mm2! Also i would use heavy contactor to disconnect motor from charger while car is in operation .

What do you think? Would it work or would inductance be too high?
Or would the wires be too long? Hm i could try it just like that...

tnx

A


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber -
> 
> PFC chip would not care - it would still try to boost to the set PFC voltage. If the rectified voltage is higher than that set voltage, it would just sit there idle and not affect anything.
> 
> ...


The DC voltage of rectified 3-phase is 1.732 times the RMS voltage. For 440v 3-phase this is 762 volts. For 400v 3-phase it is 692v. I'm not aware of a normal 3-phase voltage that would yield a 600v DC bus voltage. So, Arber should be careful here. 240v 3-phase would be OK but that has a bus voltage of around 415v.

Additionally, proper electronics design requires that nothing be stressed past about 80% of its rating. Thus, one really needs capacitors rated to 1000v and the 1200v IGBT to be safe at 440 3-phase. This is why a lot of motor controllers use 600v IGBTs but yet claim a maximum battery voltage of 400v. They're trying to have a lot of headroom to prevent failure.

So, Arber, please be careful.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

CKidder said:


> The DC voltage of rectified 3-phase is 1.732 times the RMS voltage. For 440v 3-phase this is 762 volts. For 400v 3-phase it is 692v. I'm not aware of a normal 3-phase voltage that would yield a 600v DC bus voltage. So, Arber should be careful here. 240v 3-phase would be OK but that has a bus voltage of around 415v.
> 
> Additionally, proper electronics design requires that nothing be stressed past about 80% of its rating. Thus, one really needs capacitors rated to 1000v and the 1200v IGBT to be safe at 440 3-phase. This is why a lot of motor controllers use 600v IGBTs but yet claim a maximum battery voltage of 400v. They're trying to have a lot of headroom to prevent failure.
> 
> So, Arber, please be careful.


400V phase-to-phase will give sqrt(2)*400 = 576V


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi Val
> 
> I had interesting tought  those are always dangerous...
> I drive 3phase AC motor and it is wired to cca 75V per phase, so the wire is quite thick!
> ...


could work. high inductance is not a problem. low is. measure it and if it's >150uH at zero current, you will be fine.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

valerun said:


> it went out a while ago... I would expect you to receive it by now.. Will check with my shipping guys for tracking.


My shipping guys said that it was delivered on Wednesday, Nov. 5th

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action?tLabels=LZ318420094US


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> 400V phase-to-phase will give sqrt(2)*400 = 576V


Oh... The assumption is that Arber is using 240v three phase but only a single phase from it so it is 400v phase to phase and 576v peak. If one were to use all three phases and rectify that way it's instead sqrt(3) * RMS voltage which is far higher.

My point about capacitor and IGBT rating still stands. Take that voltage and divide by .8 to get the safer value of 720v. So, 800v rated capacitors would be OK and the 1200v IGBT would have sufficient headroom too. I'd be way too squeamish to only use 600v rating for the caps.


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## jhuebner (Apr 30, 2010)

valerun said:


> WOW! this is a great news, J! Can you post any of the docs / certificates here?


I only have one certificate for the entire car. It doesn't explicitly mention the charger. I'll send you more info via email.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CKidder said:


> Oh... The assumption is that Arber is using 240v three phase but only a single phase from it so it is 400v phase to phase and 576v peak. If one were to use all three phases and rectify that way it's instead sqrt(3) * RMS voltage which is far higher.
> 
> My point about capacitor and IGBT rating still stands. Take that voltage and divide by .8 to get the safer value of 720v. So, 800v rated capacitors would be OK and the 1200v IGBT would have sufficient headroom too. I'd be way too squeamish to only use 600v rating for the caps.


As i stated earlier i would use 150A 1200V IGBT that is the exact format as the Fuji 200A 600V that i used before. Also i have two huge 4700uF 450V caps that have low ESR by itself. Also i use 15uF 800VDC plastic cap AND 1uF 1000V snubber that i picked of one 3phase UPS . 

The main problem is not the component rating as i had this config before. Rather the problem is inductance required. Valery says from 600VDC nominal (in real life i see 580VDC with my multimeter) to 150VDC out 3x inductance is required. 
I tried to lower frequency to 12kHz and inductor core would boil water.
Also i used 20kHz and inductor was happy but at 40A output i blew IGBT TWICE!!!

This time i want to try with two stages. One stage will drop rectified voltage from 600VDC to comfortable 380VDC. It will use small TO-247 40A 1200V transistor at 65% duty cycle. It will be loaded up to cca 25A. I am toying with the 35kHz frequency to get the inductance requirements lower.
Second stage will be our trusted buck converter to 150VDC. I guess it will put out some more losses but i hope to get 10kW at least. 147V x 70A = 10kW. With 0,8kW in losses??? System can perform up to 11kW!

Also i will try to use the exact inductor as on the output side since inductor depends on power not just on amps...

I was wondering how much loss would PFC stage incurr if it would run in series with buck?

Well see.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> could work. high inductance is not a problem. low is. measure it and if it's >150uH at zero current, you will be fine.


I will try to measure. 
Tomorrow I will disconnect two phases from controler and try to charge with motor connected as inductor. That should show how much uH i can afford. 

However i am worried about running with this in car. I can manage to disconnect 70A lines from IGBT to motor no problem, but i cant just disconnect motor from controller. Motor accelerating at 450A per phase would burn most of contactors that i could use in car. 

Also if i dont disconnect controller while charging it could force 70A current through mosfet reverse diodes inside..... dont know what could happen!!!

What do you think? What could i use?

A


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

CKidder said:


> Oh... The assumption is that Arber is using 240v three phase but only a single phase from it so it is 400v phase to phase and 576v peak. If one were to use all three phases and rectify that way it's instead sqrt(3) * RMS voltage which is far higher.....


No, the peak voltage of a sine wave is always 1.414x the RMS value. All that happens when you rectify 3ph. is the ripple is lower.

****

That said, this design is still a total train wreck that no one should be building or using.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There may be some errors in the assumptions made about the DC value of full wave rectified AC. As far as I know, European 220 VAC is three phase with 381 volts phase-to-phase. The peak voltage is 220 * sqrt(2) = 311V. The rectified DC according to my simulation comes out to be 309.7 VDC.

Also, if the parallel resistances of the capacitors in series are not equal, the voltage on the one with higher resistance will climb higher than the half-voltage point. In my simulation I show one with 100k and the other with 500k. After 100 seconds, the voltage on the one with higher resistance has climbed to 192V from a starting voltage of 155V. It would continue to climb until it reached about 5/6 * 310 or 258V. If these were 200V capacitors, that would be a serious problem. In actuality, perhaps, the parallel resistance may drop at higher voltages (increased leakage) and the voltage may stabilize at less than the theoretical value.

It would be good design practice to tie all the center point connections together, and add bleeder resistors of equal value across each bank. I would suggest something like 20k for a 200V capacitor, and for 1000 uF that would be a TC of 20 seconds, and a maximum power of 2 watts. The voltage will bleed down to a safe value in about a minute.










ASCII file: http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/3_phase_DC.asc


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> There may be some errors in the assumptions made about the DC value of full wave rectified AC. As far as I know, European 220 VAC is three phase with 381 volts phase-to-phase. The peak voltage is 220 * sqrt(2) = 311V. The rectified DC according to my simulation comes out to be 309.7 VDC.
> 
> Also, if the parallel resistances of the capacitors in series are not equal, the voltage on the one with higher resistance will climb higher than the half-voltage point. In my simulation I show one with 100k and the other with 500k. After 100 seconds, the voltage on the one with higher resistance has climbed to 192V from a starting voltage of 155V. It would continue to climb until it reached about 5/6 * 310 or 258V. If these were 200V capacitors, that would be a serious problem. In actuality, perhaps, the parallel resistance may drop at higher voltages (increased leakage) and the voltage may stabilize at less than the theoretical value.
> 
> ...


I think you are talking of EU 230VAC phase to N voltage. For 3phase we use 400VAC phase to phase (in Y connection that is) which under load goes down to cca 380VAC. I confirmed this by disconnecting my house and measuring phase to phase. I got 400V. When under load i get 382VAC P - P.
When rectified P - N gives 310VDC and 3P gives 600VDC although it drops to 580VDC under load.

I dont like to use smaller caps in large bunch. If somehing should happen to one in the line... bang.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You are correct. I used 220 VAC L-L when it should be L-N and L-L is 381 VAC. So here is the corrected simulation, showing 537 VDC and the voltage on C2 rises to 334 VDC in 100 seconds from its original 269 VDC:










ASCII file: http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/3_phase_star_DC.asc


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> No, the peak voltage of a sine wave is always 1.414x the RMS value. All that happens when you rectify 3ph. is the ripple is lower.
> 
> ****
> 
> That said, this design is still a total train wreck that no one should be building or using.


Sorry, I was confused. Sqrt(3) is the difference between line to neutral and line to line (I think in wye). RMS is still sqrt(2) like you said.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi everyone 

Have you noticed strange behaviour of the charger V12 and beyond? 
When on full charger is working normally. But some time in the charge it goes to pause or even stops the charge. it then has to be restarted.
Has anyone seen this? I got NonPFC charger, but controlls should be the same as PFC. 

Problem went away as soon as i used larger diameter AC wire from 1,5mm2 to 2,5mm2! But its still bugging me. 
Also when i shorted one button on controller charger did its job wery well. So it seems it could also be the arduino port sensitivity. Could the pull down resistor be too large? Should i use 6k8 instead? 

tnx

Arber


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

My guess is that the AC wires may be carrying enough current that they heat up and resistance increases and voltage sensed by the charger drops to a level that causes the wonky optoisolator voltage sensor to report a low voltage condition which may stop the charger. But IIRC the input voltage is determined only during the start-up sequence, so it could be something else.

As for the behavior of the button, it is unusual to use a pull-down resistor with the pushbutton connected to 5V. Some microcontrollers have internal pull-up resistors to keep the digital input at logic 1 and avoid floating to the linear region where the gate may draw lots of current through the totem-pole. The PIC devices use a "weak" pull-up of about 100K, so the 10k pull-down would leave the logic input at about 0.5V. This is rather close to the transition level. You could measure the voltage at the pin and lower the resistance until it reads 0.3V or less. You can look up the documentation for the ATmega168 for more definitive information. The pins do have internal pullups that are software selectable. On page 325 it shows 140 uA at 5V so the resistor is 5/0.140 = 35k. The pullup is enabled if a logic 1 is written to the input port. Check the source code to see if this is being done.

The requirements for the inductor and duty cycle and PWM frequency to get 150 VDC at 40 amps from 600 VDC can be calculated (or determined by simulation). Ideally you would want a current mode cycle-by-cycle switching topology where you apply voltage to the inductor until its current reaches, say, 45 amps, and then turn off the drive until the current drops to 35 amps. This will give an average of about 40 amps. Using a high speed current sensor on the inductor, this can be done every cycle, and it will not matter if the output is zero volts (where it will start until the capacitors are charged) or at its maximum of 150V. But we can assume it is already at full charge.

The voltage applied to the inductor will be 450V, and the current will rise at a rate of dI/dT = V/L. Operating in continuous mode, the inductor will have 35A flowing already, so you are looking at 10 amps rise, and for a frequency of 10 kHz at 50% duty cycle dI/dT=10A/5 uSec = 2A/uSec. 

Thus L = 450/2 = 225 uH.

If you have a larger inductor, dI/dT will be smaller and the frequency will be lower. Using just current control, this will happen automatically, and the inductor will never see more than 45A. You could reduce the hysteresis and switch at 39 and 41 amps for lower ripple, but then the frequency will increase. If the PWM frequency is fixed, you can only adjust the duty cycle. With a very high inductance, you will actually run at 100% duty cycle for several cycles until the target maximum is reached. Then you will run at 0% until the low level is reached. 

But the EMW charger only measures charging current, and not inductor current. Since the buck circuit is driving a high capacitance load, it will just run at whatever maximum duty cycle is set in the firmware, charging the capacitors at maximum allowed current, which must be calculated based on the inductance and PWM frequency. Once the capacitors are charged to the battery voltage, some of the current will pass through the output rectifier into the pack, and will be sensed by the Hall effect transducer and the charger duty cycle can be adjusted by the firmware.

Another consideration is saturation of the inductor. If the current exceeds the saturation level, continued applied voltage will cause very high current to flow, and with no way to detect it, bad things can happen. At lower frequency, this saturation will cause the inductor to overheat, while at higher frequencies, the IGBT switching losses will cause it to overheat and fail, as you have seen.

This is just one of what I consider to be many design deficiencies, and the reason why I want to analyze a charger and make some rather major changes that will involve much more than hardware and software "tweaks" and "hacks" to existing boards.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I agree with the second implication, i think pull down resistor is not pulling down enough and chip sees this as intermittent push of a button. However if i short the other button system stays stable. I guess the other button having nothing to do interlocks the first one... Hm, i will change resistor to 6K8 and charge for some time.

The problem is i havent seen that with my first charger - the first V11/V12 iteration. I must admit it still uses ISO122 to sense voltage and is way more accurate. 

As for the 3phase 1st stage i will use duty fixed at 65%. That means cca 380VDC on output. So i will try to ajust nominal inductance. Higher frequency should help... 
I tried to charge 25A with a small single phase charger at 35kHz. At 310VDC input it works very well i might add. For this i used T300 size inductor 55 turns and i selected 26 material. It shows greater permeability... However i found it should be kept from low current output, because of resonance.

I dont know what will happen at 600VDC input, but i will use T400-26D core and 50 turns of 4x0,9mm wire. TO247 should run at 35Khz. I hope it will be enough for 25A output. If succesful i will up the frequency in 5kHz steps and watch IGBT sweat :].

Input will be checked by two large 4700uF 450V caps wired 2S, and between stages will be EMW 1500uF caps in 450V bank. After that i will have IGBT and buck inductor with output cap bank that is the same as any EMW NonPFC charger. So control unit will oversee the second stage which will draw current from the first stage and hopefully voltage vill be stable enough to run at 70A output. 

Now i have to figure how to program arduino to separately output 35kHz PWM on pin 11 in addition of normal program which runs at 16kHz (up to 20kHz).

tnx

A


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Hi Vale, while watching some of the issues, it occurred to me that you might want to double check the state of the binary code on any chargers you receive (before reflashing), i.e. dump the elf and diff it with the master copy. I know it sounds like a long shot, but I've seen them get corrupted without much effort. If you are getting errors, then you will have to consider disabling the self-programming fuse/bootloader.



dcb said:


> You can get the binary via serial and bootloader...
> 
> http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=6150.0


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

dcb said:


> Hi Vale, while watching some of the issues, it occurred to me that you might want to double check the state of the binary code on any chargers you receive (before reflashing), i.e. dump the elf and diff it with the master copy. I know it sounds like a long shot, but I've seen them get corrupted without much effort. If you are getting errors, then you will have to consider disabling the self-programming fuse/bootloader.


I have had this happen to me as well (totally different project for something totally unrelated). Certain situations involving power fluctuation or brownout sometimes end up corrupting either the flash space or EEPROM space on microprocessors. From my experience it is far more likely to corrupt EEPROM than flash space.

So, yes, it is possible and I have seen it. Is that currently occurring to people with EMW chargers? I think it's unlikely. The processor would have to undergo bad voltage spikes (plus or minus) and/or have sustained low voltage on the input.

But, hey, it isn't so far out of the realm of possibility that I wouldn't give it a shot if I were EMW. It certainly doesn't hurt to make a copy of the program space and EEPROM just to see what's there.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It's fairly easy to have the firmware do a checksum or CRC check of its code space and compare it to a number also stored there. I don't think the basic Arduino IDE gives a checksum or a hex file, but it may be available with the Dragon debugger/programmer that I will be ordering. I have always used Microchip products and the checksum has always been available. I put the value in the source code, which helps identify a particular build. 

I have had oddball problems with a PIC18F4455 where there would be intermittent lockup using one IDE for programming, and the same code using a different IDE and the same programmer worked fine.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I just received a complete V12 PFC charger from John N. and I hope to be able to do some work on it soon. As far as what I find applies to the charger as built, and any minor tweaks of hardware or software, I'll post here. If I make major changes involving new boards or firmware rewrite, I'll make a separate thread.

It may be good to have a separate on-line resource for specific problems and resolutions, rather than having to delve deeply into this monster thread. There may be something like that already on the EMW website, but I have found it difficult to navigate and find the information needed. There have been so many changes to the boards and firmware over the last several years that it's very difficult to determine the correct combination. I would think that there should be only a couple of designs and older boards should be modified to reflect the latest (and hopefully most reliable) version.

I saw that John was having problems with the PF stage, and I had mentioned some possible problems with that design previously. Refer to the application note for the IR1153S: http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1167.pdf

This IC requires a proper signal on the Isense pin to perform its function. There are actually two functions. One is for its average current mode operation, using "soft" current limit protection. It also has a cycle-by-cycle peak current protection, which may be close to the average. The example is for a 2000 watt PFC stage at 170 VAC, where peak current is 23.4A and the resistor is 0.018 ohms, dissipating about 3 watts. For 12 kW and minimum voltage of 200 VAC, the peak current will be about four times that value (12000/200=60A RMS=85A peak) so the resistor would be about 0.005 ohms and power would be about 12 watts. The piece of #10 copper wire at 0.001 ohms/foot used in this design would need to be about five feet long to achieve the correct resistance.

Even with the correct resistance, the RC filter must meet the requirements to provide a good representation of the waveform at 22kHz, and the recommendation is for a corner frequency of about 1 MHz, which is met with R=100 and C=1000pF. The EMW design has a two stage filter on the power board with R=90 to 120 ohms and capacitance 1nF (1000pF) to 10nF(ten times recommended). Then the driver board has an additional filter of 90-120 ohms and a 0.1uF (100nF) capacitor, 100 times recommended. The combination of these values probably filter out most of the waveshape so if the inductor saturates and current rises quickly to a destructive level, the PFC chip will not see it, and the circuit will not be protected. Also, to work correctly, the Isn- connection needs to be tied closely to the GND pin of the IR1153. According to John, there was some signal on the I_sense pin, and since the sense resistor is only about 6" of wire, the signal must be caused by ground loop currents or induced EMI. The peak current protection will start activating at about 500mV.


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## crackerjackz (Jun 26, 2009)

valerun said:


> it went out a while ago... I would expect you to receive it by now.. Will check with my shipping guys for tracking.



Received it friday ... Thanks ... Im just wondering about the compatibilty with my 12 kilowatt non pfc charger as the board is written emw 10000 watt driver board on it ??? Does the arduino on the universal board you sent me hace to have some settings changed or its suppose to be plug and play ??


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

After analyzing the PFC stage I realized that, if the current limits were working properly, there would be no need for the input surge limiters. It would simply go into current limiting mode until the main storage capacitors get charged up. 

You can get a 0.0005 ohm 3 watt 1% SMT current sense resistor for about $0.75. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtlleCFQhR/zSLe9kSmbPbKREuv4a2KCyY=

That would produce 25 mV at 50 amps, and dissipate 1.25 watts. A simple differential amplifier could provide a 20x gain for the 500 mV needed to trigger the overcurrent limit. Total cost maybe $2, which might eliminate the NTC thermistors. The highest rating I found is 30 amps and 0.5 ohms (0.01 ohms hot), for about $3.60 each.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...eNK75brDwR52%2bBAw5x7TbqwOpDAe4h5FQCiD5jX8A==

At 30 amps they each dissipate 9 watts. Two in series with 250 volts applied will limit the initial surge to 250 amps and the 62 kW will likely heat them to maximum much faster than the RC time constant 1 * 8000uF = 8 mSec.


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## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

Good day.
I want to collect charging.
Should I start?
Sorry for my English.


----------



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> After analyzing the PFC stage I realized that, if the current limits were working properly, there would be no need for the input surge limiters. It would simply go into current limiting mode until the main storage capacitors get charged up.
> 
> You can get a 0.0005 ohm 3 watt 1% SMT current sense resistor for about $0.75. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtlleCFQhR/zSLe9kSmbPbKREuv4a2KCyY=
> 
> ...


So far as I know the inductors used in the 12kw unit are rated to 70A average so it seems like you'd want to set the current limit for somewhere in the 80A range so that you can have some fluctuation and still end up at 70A, wouldn't you? 80A is then 40mv and 3.2w which I suppose is not such a good thing. But, the current sensing resistor could be bumped to something like 0.0003 which would allow a 3w resistor to work fine.

But, I do like the idea of using current limiting more than I like the idea of using giant thermistors to limit the input rush. So, if you wanted to test something like this I'd be interested to hear how it goes.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm ordering a couple of 0.0003 ohm 3W resistors at $1.30 each, but really, 60 amps at 220 volts is 13.2 kW, which is above the nominal 12kW rating of the charger. I know Valery has pushed it to 15kW but I think that's a bit extreme. I know it is tempting to see just how much you can get out of a device but I'd rather maintain a good safety margin. I'm not convinced that the wiring and the PCB can handle that much current without problems, and for my own testing, I will probably limit to 20 amps.


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## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

Help save pcb a gerber format.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. The original EMW PCBs were done using ExpressPCB which is a proprietary format, but I think the newest boards are being made with a better design package that produces Gerbers. If and when I make some retrofit new design boards, they will be done using Mentor Graphics PADS for schematic and PCB, but the actual artwork will be Gerber photoplot files. If there is enough interest I'll just order a lot of boards from www.pcbcart.com in China and they will be less than $10 each, so no sense getting one or two boards made for personal use.

Your previous post where you want to "collect charging" does not make sense. You may order a charger (or possibly a kit) from EMW and I/we will try to help you with the build and getting it to work, but you may want to wait until I complete my analysis of the design and make changes as needed.


----------



## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

PStechPaul said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to say. The original EMW PCBs were done using ExpressPCB which is a proprietary format, but I think the newest boards are being made with a better design package that produces Gerbers. If and when I make some retrofit new design boards, they will be done using Mentor Graphics PADS for schematic and PCB, but the actual artwork will be Gerber photoplot files. If there is enough interest I'll just order a lot of boards from www.pcbcart.com in China and they will be less than $10 each, so no sense getting one or two boards made for personal use.
> 
> Your previous post where you want to "collect charging" does not make sense. You may order a charger (or possibly a kit) from EMW and I/we will try to help you with the build and getting it to work, but you may want to wait until I complete my analysis of the design and make changes as needed.


I do not have that kind of money to buy a kit. I will gather myself.
if you help will be very happy.
I need charging 100VDC 50-60A still connect to MENNEKES type 2 connector


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> The original EMW PCBs were done using ExpressPCB which is a proprietary format, but I think the newest boards are being made with a better design package that produces Gerbers. If and when I make some retrofit new design boards, they will be done using Mentor Graphics PADS for schematic and PCB, but the actual artwork will be Gerber photoplot files. If there is enough interest I'll just order a lot of boards from www.pcbcart.com in China and they will be less than $10 each, so no sense getting one or two boards made for personal use.


The problem with your plan is that Mentor PADS is uber expensive and nobody else has it. At least, nobody in the open source world does. I suppose this isn't a problem for you but it limits who can work on the files. As much as I hate ExpressPCB I at least understand why EMW would have used it. It is widely available and allows open source people to modify the designs. Now they are switching to DipTrace. This isn't strictly free but can be purchased reasonably cheaply. It also appears that most all of the EMW designs fit within the freeware limit so the free version could probably be used by most people. This keeps things in the spirit of open source. Having access to gerbers could technically be considered "open" but if you can only peek and not modify it is kind of a letdown. 

So, obviously you can do what you want with your time. But, I'm going to ask that you at least give DipTrace a chance because it will be much more helpful if the rest of the community could more directly benefit from your work. I suppose at worst someone like me could take your gerbers and view the schematics and reverse engineer the changes back to the DipTrace version.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> ... The original EMW PCBs were done using ExpressPCB which is a proprietary format ...


Just as a side note, I've used Copper Connection to convert my library of ExpressPCB boards to proper gerbers so I can order from any PCB house. I've used it to convert and order about a dozen of my older ExpressPCB boards and it does a fantastic job. It's not free but the $25 'student edition' will export Gerber and Excellon files.

While I have used both Cadence and Mentor professionally, for my personal work I've switched to the open-source KiCAD, mainly because I like having the source code and making mods to it if needed.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I tried Kicad quite a long time ago but it didn't do what I needed it to do (at that time), and I acquired a PADS suite from a company I had worked for when they switched to Protel. The company I now do work for also has PADS and so it is expedient to be able to use the same format. We both use PADS2004sp2 and the schematic capture (PADS Logic) does not require the dongle. I have the full suite running on my Win7 machine but it will not run on my Win8 machine. I also have a newer edition PADS 9.x that I got during one of Mentor's "lapsed support amnesty" programs, but I don't use it.

I don't see any reason to make Gerbers from the EMW charger boards because they really need a total redesign, and the existing design could be recreated in a couple of days, if desired. When I make the alternate design in PADS, it will hopefully be good enough not to need further revision, and might be made so that minor changes may be done fairly easily using a modular approach and compatibility with the existing design, at least for major components. 

There are Gerber viewing and editing packages available which may suffice for simple changes, and the Excellon drill file is also easy to modify as it is basically a CNC text file. The PADS files can be exported and imported as ASCII files and I have coded some software in Borland Delphi that can manipulate the data in various ways. It is fairly easy to extract XYRS data for position, rotation, and side information for each component, and the attributes are also available, which in most cases contain part numbers, vendors, and pricing. 

This is really a very simple design and I plan to use the software I already have and know rather than try something else at this point. Most important is to come up with a reliable and inexpensive design that "just works", and not have to fiddle with "bugs" and "tweaks" and myriad revisions of boards and firmware.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Today I made a shield for an Arduino UNO to interface a 1/8" TFT color display that might be an inexpensive ($6) option for the charger display. Here is a little video of the demo:


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I published a fast library for the ILI9341 (1.8 and 2.4"). You might want to try it instead of the stock. Check in this thread
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=181679.210

Paul, would you send me a PM with the code you're using? I would like to make some changes to the software. In fact I would be quite happy to redesign the complete control board, add native J1772 communication etc.

PS: I use the eagle layout editor. Same one Farnell provides the libraries for their components.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I got the code and other information from:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/358

The display I used http://www.ebay.com/itm//371061181530:










There is some discrepancy in pin names, but I figured it out:

Module Alt Arduino
1. Vcc +5V UNO power pin 2,5
2. GND GND UNO power pin 6,7
3. CS TFT_CS UNO pin 6
4. RESET RES UNO pin 8
5. A0 RS/DC UNO pin 7
6. SDA MOSI UNO pin 3 (was 5)
7. SCK SCLK UNO pin 4
8. LED LED+ UNO pin 5 (PWM for backlight)

The sketch I used was "graphicstest.pde".

Do you have a link to your IL9341 library? I looked through some of the thread but not sure what page the code is on. A touchscreen would be nice, but the two buttons on the original design should be enough, especially if a Bluetooth or serial connection can be used for more detailed programming and data reporting.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Post #191. There's a YouTube video on how to wire the display. I don't use the touch, but there were some other folks working on that using the utouch library.

What I meant was the original charger file. I assumed you had the charger working with that display already, or are you trying to design the software again from scratch?

I was also wondering last eve, what's the PWM frequency the charger works at?


----------



## BVH (Jul 4, 2014)

I realize my needs for a charger are no where near the power levels used by members here but I thought I'd ask. I have a new Prodeco electric bike that utilizes a 51.2 VDC nominal, 16S/12 Ah (2 parallel banks of 6Ah cells) LiFeP04 pouch pack. I’d like to treat my cells nicely and would ideally charge to a termination of 3.50 – 3.55 Volts per cell at about 4 to 4.5 Amp rate. I have both a 2 Amp and a 4 Amp charger that are just plug-in boxes and are not adjustable in any way. (Well, maybe there is a POT inside)

For my battery packs of 10S and smaller cell count, I have two high end, high output, completely configurable hobby chargers. Is there anything out in the LiFeP04 charger world like this that would be good up to 16S? I’d really like to be able to make my own settings.


Here are the hobby chargers:

http://www.revolectrix.com/pl8_specs_tab.htm

http://www.progressiverc.com/icharger-4010duo.htm


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

Hobby chargers like the icharger(great product, I have a 1010B) have the capability to monitor individual cells during the charge. Currently, none of the Car chargers have this feature. You have to purchase a separate BMS to terminate, or throttle back the charger for out of balance cells.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Ideally you want to find a constant voltage 48V power supply and build a CC-CV boost converter with a peak voltage of 3.55*16V.

Individual cell voltages and balancing are monitored by the BMS, which I assume you already have for LVC purposes.


----------



## BVH (Jul 4, 2014)

I should have mentioned that the pack has an internal BMS that does end-of-charge, drain/equalizing balancing so an adjustable charger does not need have to have the balancing function. I ride with a Cycle Analyst and am a data-loving person so I do my own LVC at 3.05 VPC.

I could build a CC-CV setup by following a plan with a materials list but don't have enough knowledge to know what to buy. Are there any web sites or threads here that could be followed?


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

BVH said:


> I should have mentioned that the pack has an internal BMS that does end-of-charge, drain/equalizing balancing so an adjustable charger does not need have to have the balancing function. I ride with a Cycle Analyst and am a data-loving person so I do my own LVC at 3.05 VPC.
> 
> I could build a CC-CV setup by following a plan with a materials list but don't have enough knowledge to know what to buy. Are there any web sites or threads here that could be followed?


Some boost converters up to 60V can be found relatively cheap on eBay. For a battery charger you only need to add a better heatsink and change the current limiting shunt resistor to suit whatever your max current is. Of course if you have no experience perhaps it is best to get some already built 16cell chargers. The 2A-3Ah are relatively affordable. High power are available for some small golf carts in the range of 4 to 10A. I guess you could have a look at any website that sells EV parts and enquire. They are sold as 48V but the actual voltage is in the range to charge 16LiFePO4 cells (CC-CV)


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## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

If you have an icharger 4010duo, which has 2 10S channels, why can't you just tap your 16S pack into 2ea 8S groups and use that charger?


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## BVH (Jul 4, 2014)

The battery is brand new with a two-year warranty. If I open he case, poof goes the warranty. I'm tempted but probably won't for a while.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I found and bought a CV/CC board for $6 that is designed for Li-Ion batteries but the same principles can be used for LiFePO4 or other chemistries. However it is only good for 30V output and 3A:
http://www.mpja.com/Constant-Voltage-or-Current-LED-or-Li-Battery-Driver_Charger/productinfo/31562%20PS

Hopefully my analysis and modification to the EMW charger will produce a scalable design that uses the same basic processor and firmware but can drive modular hardware units that can be made for a wide range of charging voltages and currents. For the small pack of about 50V and 5A the power level is only 250 watts. You can get a 48V 5A supply for $45:
http://www.mpja.com/48-Volt-Power-Supply-5A-240W-Switching-Hengfu/productinfo/18437 PS/

Or you might try using several of these 16V 3.75A adapter supplies in series. They are only $3 each on sale:
http://www.mpja.com/16-Volt-Adapter-Power-Supply-374A-Sunny/productinfo/19385 PS/

Once you have the voltage close to what you need you can boost it or buck it to get exactly what you want and add circuitry to achieve the desired charging profile. Of course these ideas require a lot more work and are OT for this thread except for general principles involved.

[edit] Regarding the display, this was just an attempt to become familiar with the Arduino and possibly to use a less expensive and more standard display. The PWM frequency appears to be set at 20 kHz for newer units, and as low as 14 kHz for slower IGBTs. See line 127 of the constants where period is defined as 50.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm trying to compile the EMW charger code and I'm getting some error messages. I am using Arduino 1.0.6. I also tried running the 0022 Alpha version downloaded from EMW and got some of the same (or similar) errors, and some indicating missing files or declarations. The build really should not depend on using an older version of the IDE.

Errors with 0022:


```
charger_2013_07_31_V12.cpp:52:24: error: MemoryFree.h: No such file or directory
charger_2013_07_31_V12.cpp:56:22: error: TimerOne.h: No such file or directory
charger_2013_07_31_V12.cpp:165:24: error: uLCD_144.h: No such file or directory
charger_2013_07_31_V12:136: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before '*' token
charger_2013_07_31_V12.cpp: In function 'void setup()':
charger_2013_07_31_V12:637: error: 'myLCD' was not declared in this scope
charger_2013_07_31_V12:637: error: 'uLCD_144' was not declared in this scope
charger_2013_07_31_V12.cpp: In function 'void loop()':
charger_2013_07_31_V12:842: error: 'myLCD' was not declared in this scope
charger_2013_07_31_V12:978: error: 'Timer1' was not declared in this scope
charger_2013_07_31_V12:1013: error: 'myLCD' was not declared in this scope
```
Using the newer version, with the files in an Arduino\sketches folder:

In file included from charger_2013_07_31_V12.pde:55:

```
/EEPROM_VMcharger.h: In function 'int EEPROM_writeAnything(int, const T&)':
EEPROM_VMcharger.h:6: error: expected initializer before '*' token
EEPROM_VMcharger.h:9: error: 'p' was not declared in this scope
/EEPROM_VMcharger.h: In function 'int EEPROM_readAnything(int, T&)':
EEPROM_VMcharger.h:15: error: 'byte' was not declared in this scope
EEPROM_VMcharger.h:15: error: 'p' was not declared in this scope
EEPROM_VMcharger.h:15: error: expected primary-expression before ')' token
EEPROM_VMcharger.h:15: error: expected primary-expression before 'void'
charger_2013_07_31_V12.pde: At global scope:
charger_2013_07_31_V12:141: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before '*' token
charger_2013_07_31_V12:150: error: 'byte' does not name a type
```
In that build, there was an error flagged in the EEPROM_VMcharger.h file:


```
#include <EEPROM.h>
#include <WProgram.h>  // for type definitions

template <class T> int EEPROM_writeAnything(int ee, const T& value)
{
    const byte* p = (const byte*)(const void*)&value;
    int i;
    for (i = 0; i < sizeof(value); i++)
      EEPROM.write(ee++, *p++);
    return i;
}

template <class T> int EEPROM_readAnything(int ee, T& value)
{
    byte* p = (byte*)(void*)&value;
    int i;
    for (i = 0; i < sizeof(value); i++)
      *p++ = EEPROM.read(ee++);
    return i;
}
```
I can't find any explanation of how to set up the environment for the Arduino and a search of the forum and this thread did not reveal anything useful. There should be something in the EMW website but I don't know where to look. 

I moved some header files into the folders where the errors were identified, and now I have these errors:


```
In file included from charger_2013_07_31_V12.ino:138:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\cores\arduino/Arduino.h:222: error: default argument given for parameter 3 of 'long unsigned int pulseIn(uint8_t, uint8_t, long unsigned int)'
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\cores\arduino/Arduino.h:131: error: after previous specification in 'long unsigned int pulseIn(uint8_t, uint8_t, long unsigned int)'
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\cores\arduino/Arduino.h:224: error: default argument given for parameter 3 of 'void tone(uint8_t, unsigned int, long unsigned int)'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:24: error: after previous specification in 'void tone(uint8_t, unsigned int, long unsigned int)'
In file included from C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\cores\arduino/Arduino.h:235,
                 from charger_2013_07_31_V12.ino:138:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:49: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A0'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:51: error: 'const uint8_t A0' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:50: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A1'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:52: error: 'const uint8_t A1' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:51: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A2'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:53: error: 'const uint8_t A2' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:52: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A3'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:54: error: 'const uint8_t A3' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:53: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A4'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:55: error: 'const uint8_t A4' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:54: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A5'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:56: error: 'const uint8_t A5' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:55: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A6'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:57: error: 'const uint8_t A6' previously defined here
C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_arduino.h:56: error: redefinition of 'const uint8_t A7'
C:\Users\paul_000\Documents\Arduino\libraries\uLCD_144_SPE/WProgram.h:58: error: 'const uint8_t A7' previously defined here
charger_2013_07_31_V12.ino: In function 'void setup()':
charger_2013_07_31_V12:655: error: 'EEPROM_readAnything' was not declared in this scope
charger_2013_07_31_V12.ino: In function 'void loop()':
charger_2013_07_31_V12:967: error: 'EEPROM_writeAnything' was not declared in this scope
```


----------



## BVH (Jul 4, 2014)

Just want to close this off-topic subject on a high note:

Someone on Endlesssphere pointed me to it.


----------



## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

What Magnetics - 150-250uH 70A inductors?
Where to buy?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Back to the EMW charger. I finally got it to compile! 

I did not fully understand how the libraries worked. The cpp and h files had to be in their own folders, and I also had to add the following conditional statement to the EEPROM_VMcharger.h file and the uLCD_144_SPE.h files:


```
#if ARDUINO >= 100
 #include "Arduino.h"
 #include "Print.h"
#else
 #include "WProgram.h"
#endif
```
I also started a sketch for a "Simple Charger" which I plan to use to perform simple functions such as writing to the display and reading the analog and digital inputs. Once I get the Dragon I might be able to run the firmware with breakpoints and examine variables and other such things, as well as being able to download the existing code and save it in HEX or BIN format so it can be restored if necessary when I start working on the charger. Mostly I'm starting to get used to the Arduino and the programming environment. The code is pretty straightforward C and C++ so changes should not be too difficult. 

That was quite a challenge, but now I feel as if I have wrestled a bear and won!


----------



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

It's good that you got it to compile. Libraries do belong in their own folders in the libraries folder for Arduino. I know that EMW says to use 0022 instead of the 1.0.X series. You probably should do this as I've personally had issues with Arduino projects that were developed with one version in mind but compiled with a newer version. This sucks but it isn't out of the realm of normal development. You'll note that many projects that come out even today for PC will be using Visual Studio 2005 or 2008 because they started with that version and they're terrified to even attempt to use something newer. 

Yes, the conditionals you added are the proper thing to do if you plan to compile code with both the pre and post 1.0.x IDE. 

With the AVR Dragon you can single step and use breakpoints but you will need to follow the directions at http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/MiniBootloader to build a debugging header. You probably already know that but it's good to keep it here in this part of the discussion for anyone else thinking to do the same.

The worst part of Arduino is getting started. Usually it's pretty smooth sailing once you figure out how to get compiling.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It seems that there are two ways to program the Arduino. The bootloader can be used with an FTDI USB-serial adapter and there is a row of six pins (JP1) on the Mini that correspond to the pins of the FTDI. These are as follows:

1 GND <=> GND
2 CTS <=> GND
3 VCC <=> VCC
4 TXD <=> RXI
5 RXI <=> TXD
6 DTR <=> DTR

But the EMW control board connects these pins to an 8 pin header as follows:

1 GRN <=> DTR (25)
2 TXO <=> TXO (26)
3 RXI <=> RXI (27)
4 VCC <=> VCC (28)
5 GND <=> GND (29+30)
6 BLK <=> D2 (20)
7 D2 <=> D2 (20)
8 D3 <=> D3 (19)

In the schematic of the Arduino Pro Mini, the DTR connects through a 0.1 uF capacitor to the reset switch and a 10k pullup to the ATMega168 PC6 (/RESET). However, the board I have has an ATMega328. I think it just has twice the flash memory.

For use with the Dragon and ISP, other pins are needed:
http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/MiniBootloader

The SPI pins (on a 3x2 connector) are:

1 MISO <=> JP6-10 (also PB4)
2 VCC <=> JP6-4
3 SCK <=> JP6-9 (also PB3 and connected with 330R to LED to GND)
4 MOSI <=> JP6-11 (also PB5)
5 RESET <=> JP6-3 (also PC6)
6 GND <=> JP6-2

The LED would need to be removed for SPI programming/debugging.


----------



## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

What Magnetics - 150-250uH 70A inductors?
Where to buy?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Borokhov said:


> What Magnetics - 150-250uH 70A inductors?
> Where to buy?


You pretty much need to make your own, or buy them from EMW. The BOM of the charger, and the build notes, show the specifications of the toroidal core as well as the number of turns, type of wire, etc. You may also get such cores on eBay, and you can figure out wire size by the current and the number of turns by the dimensions of the magnetic path and the magnetic characteristics of the material (permeability and saturation).

I bought a couple of these inductors for $1.25 each, and they have two windings which can be connected in series for 200 uH or in parallel for 50 uH. The resistance of each winding is 0.016 ohms, looks like #18 AWG, so probably good for 5-10 amps. You can build a low power version and use multiple coils in series and parallel to get what you need:

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m4186.html


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> ...You may also get such cores on eBay...


I've never seen anything close to the micrometals t-400-30d on ebay, and they are not in the emw store. You will have to experiment with anything you get from ebay to make sure it is up to the task. 


Have you gone through the micrometals simulations that vale suggested?

post 1442 

"Micrometals T400-30D. 4 strands of AWG16, 50-60 turns. Download Micrometals simulator soft from their site to model this inductor. 

You will get ~130uH at 70A bias current. ~50W..."


----------



## JoeG (Jul 18, 2010)

There is a Micrometals T400-2 on Ebay for $32.50 listed here,
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/T400-2-Toroid-1-piece-/121030970790


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

-2 is a very different material and application than -30, and the D means it is twice as high. 
http://www.micrometals.com/material/matapps.html


----------



## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

dcb said:


> I've never seen anything close to the micrometals t-400-30d on ebay, and they are not in the emw store. You will have to experiment with anything you get from ebay to make sure it is up to the task.
> 
> 
> Have you gone through the micrometals simulations that vale suggested?
> ...


This post I read.
where to buy a ferrite bead?
may have others that you can buy?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't know where you are located, but I assume it's not the US, so I can't really recommend where to buy magnetic components. Newark/Farnell are multinational and have a good selection of ferrite and perhaps also powdered iron cores. Toroids have pros and cons, and you may also consider E-I cores which are easier to wind, and you can get them with various gaps to use for energy storage and release as in a buck converter. But you can also get them with no gap which makes them more suitable for transformers. There is a lot of information available on inductors and magnetics in general, and I admit that I am not very knowledgeable in that area. But I am pretty good at building prototypes and testing various parameters and getting things to work. The EMW design has limitations due to the use of large motor control IGBTs which are generally limited to about 20 kHz, while most switching supplies operate at 50-200 kHz or higher, with associated reduction in size of the magnetic core, but copper losses dictate just how small you can make a PSU and how efficient it can be.

Some information:
http://powerelectronics.com/passive-components/ferrite-out-better-core-materials-your-pol-design
http://www.bytemark.com/products/powercon.htm
http://inductors.ru/pdf/Doc496_Ferrite&Powder_Core_Power_Inductors.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core

Here is an inductor design application, perhaps previously mentioned:
http://www.micrometals.com/software.html

My suggestion would be to build something on a small scale, perhaps 100 watts or so, and see how various materials work for the purpose you need.


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## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

PStechPaul said:


> I don't know where you are located, but I assume it's not the US, so I can't really recommend where to buy magnetic components. Newark/Farnell are multinational and have a good selection of ferrite and perhaps also powdered iron cores. Toroids have pros and cons, and you may also consider E-I cores which are easier to wind, and you can get them with various gaps to use for energy storage and release as in a buck converter. But you can also get them with no gap which makes them more suitable for transformers. There is a lot of information available on inductors and magnetics in general, and I admit that I am not very knowledgeable in that area. But I am pretty good at building prototypes and testing various parameters and getting things to work. The EMW design has limitations due to the use of large motor control IGBTs which are generally limited to about 20 kHz, while most switching supplies operate at 50-200 kHz or higher, with associated reduction in size of the magnetic core, but copper losses dictate just how small you can make a PSU and how efficient it can be.
> 
> Some information:
> http://powerelectronics.com/passive-components/ferrite-out-better-core-materials-your-pol-design
> ...


Yes you are right I am from Belarus. I'm not an expert in iron. By this, I asked someone can put other, more affordable ferrites. Which can be bought on Ebay or other store but with cheap shipping. http://www.cwsbytemark.com/ wants $ 200 for shipping.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Borokhov, take a look at this company in Poland: http://www.feryster.com.pl/polski/index.php?lang=en
If you find something suitable I could help you to communicate with them.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I don't understand how we went back 5 years to "go fish" on the inductors?!? Something is not right with this picture. Whomever is introducing the change needs to be specific about the components and capabilities.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> For use with the Dragon and ISP, other pins are needed:
> http://arduino.cc/en/Hacking/MiniBootloader
> 
> The SPI pins (on a 3x2 connector) are:
> ...


I have successfully hooked up to the ISP pins on the V14 control board. It should be noted that the BMS/J1772 header (J4 on the V14 board) has D12 and D13 on it. This screws up the ISP connection if the plug is connected to it. ISP works perfectly fine if the plug is removed. This doesn't make a lot of sense since those four wires for the BMS/J1772 are totally disconnected at the other side for me (just a female header sticking out of the case). It seems it is best to just disconnect the wires while debugging.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It seems that the "go to page" feature is broken so I had to manually edit the URL to get to the post #1442 on page 145:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210p145.html

I think the choice of powdered iron rather than ferrite also involved the relatively low switching frequency of 15-20 kHz. Powdered iron essentially has a "distributed gap" which stores energy. Ferrite requires a physical gap in the magnetic circuit for this purpose, and that is difficult to do with a toroid. E-cores can simply have one or more legs ground off, or they can be assembled with a thin piece of hard insulating and non-magnetic material to separate the core sections. 

A good US distributor for magnetic cores and bobbins is Lodestone Pacific. They have been good about supplying samples and their prices are reasonable, although I think they require a $100 minimum order. Not hard to do for 15kW cores!


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I like the multi-inductor thought, maybe peruse mouser/digikey for something they have a lot of and that has a datasheet?

I am kinda sticking to powdered iron here because I have no clue if the thing is gapped otherwise. But still lots to sort out, but something stocked in the thousands for a couple bucks that comes with a data sheet might be a step in the right direction.

http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...ee=0&rohs=0&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

This toroid core might work OK, and worth trying at $6 each:
http://www.newark.com/fair-rite/5943003801/ferrite-core-toroid-43/dp/27C1651

Data sheet: http://www.fair-rite.com/catalog_pdfs/5943003801.PDF

It has 930 nH for one turn so 15 turns would be 15^2*930 = 209 uH. I'll hazard a guess and say that this would be good for 10 amps, which is 150 ampere-turns.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetomotive_force I see that this is also equal to H*L where H is the field strength and L is the magnetic circuit length, which in this case is 14.4 cm and the cross sectional area is 1.58 cm^2. It can handle a flux density B=2900 Gauss at H=10 Oersteds. 150 A-t through a magnetic path of 14.4 cm would be 150/14.4 or 10.4 Oersteds, so my guess was pretty close.

As I said, I am far from expert at magnetics, and most of my experience has been at power line frequencies, but I have made a boost converter running at 50 kHz with 30 watts output from an inductor only about 20x20x10 mm, and more recently a transformer that produced about 200 watts in a step-up mode for 24 VDC in and 100-200 VDC out. I'll be doing a bit of experimentation with some toroidal and E cores and report back with some results. It's about time I got more familiar with this. But I'll do that in a separate thread unless it relates directly to the EMW charger and basic analysis and suggestions for improvement other than a complete redesign.

PS: From Digikey I found a 100 uH toroidal powdered iron inductor good for 17A (13A sat) and only 2.25" diameter and 1" high for about $13:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CTX100-10-52LPR/513-1720-ND/1144855

Remember that the amount of energy that can be stored goes linearly by inductance but square of current, so this one will store 0.5*100*13^2 = 6.9 mJ of energy. To get an idea of power, multiply by frequency, so at 100 kHz it seems that it should handle about 695 watts, but that seems unlikely. Using 13/1.4 = 9.3 amps RMS the energy becomes 4.3 mJ and power becomes 430 watts. That still seems high, and actually for a buck or boost converter at 50% duty cycle you'd have to halve the power as well. 215 watts seems at least possible. Look at the size of the transformer in a 500 watt computer PSU to get an idea of what is possible. To get an idea, here is a homebrew 750 watt transformer running at 40 kHz and the builder said he might expect as much as 2.5 kW if he pushed it harder. 

http://w5jgv.com/hv-ps-up1/index.htm

It looks to be about 4" cube so something like 10-30 watts/cubic inch is reasonable and actually the little boost circuit I built was able to reach about 25 watts with a 4 cc inductor. That's 6 watts/cc or 100 watts/cubic inch.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have some sort of sinus infection bug and I'm not feeling up to par, but I removed some of the unnecessary and problematic components such as the patched-on PC817 input voltage sensor and the 10 ohm 2 watt gate resistors. The opto definitely has to go - the resistors just don't need to be such high power. The gate is essentially a capacitor of about 10 nF so a 15V drive at 20 kHz so it will have a TC of 0.1 uSec. The peak power will be about 15^2/10 = 2.25 watts, but the duty cycle is only about 0.1/50 so RMS power will be only 4.5 mW.

I used the Arduino Mini Pro from CrackerJackz's board in the older model control board I got from Valery and when I apply 12 VDC power it displays

4D Systems
uLCD-144
4D Systems (c) 2010

If I cycle the display ON/OFF switch it takes a while and then shows a 6x12 or so rectangle at the bottom. I see that this display has nine pins on the bottom, whereas the display on the other control board is a -G2 version with a 2x5 header.

With 12VDC on the driver board I get the expected +/- 15V outputs from all three DC-DC converters. Pretty soon I hope to connect the Dragon and explore the firmware. And I'll see if I can get the PFC chip working with a proper sense resistor.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I have some sort of sinus infection bug and I'm not feeling up to par, but I removed some of the unnecessary and problematic components such as the patched-on PC817 input voltage sensor and the 10 ohm 2 watt gate resistors. The opto definitely has to go - the resistors just don't need to be such high power. The gate is essentially a capacitor of about 10 nF so a 15V drive at 20 kHz so it will have a TC of 0.1 uSec. The peak power will be about 15^2/10 = 2.25 watts, but the duty cycle is only about 0.1/50 so RMS power will be only 4.5 mW.
> 
> I used the Arduino Mini Pro from CrackerJackz's board in the older model control board I got from Valery and when I apply 12 VDC power it displays
> 
> ...


You might want to replace the opto with a Si8261 digital isolator. 
4A peak gate current. I use them everywhere now, even as charge pumps

4.5mW at 20KHz seems very low. What IGBT is that and how fast are the rising and falling times? I would expect at least 200mW, average for something that has to deal with 50A+


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I have some sort of sinus infection bug and I'm not feeling up to par, but I removed some of the unnecessary and problematic components such as the patched-on PC817 input voltage sensor and the 10 ohm 2 watt gate resistors. The opto definitely has to go - the resistors just don't need to be such high power. The gate is essentially a capacitor of about 10 nF so a 15V drive at 20 kHz so it will have a TC of 0.1 uSec. The peak power will be about 15^2/10 = 2.25 watts, but the duty cycle is only about 0.1/50 so RMS power will be only 4.5 mW.


Why is it that you think that optoisolated gate drivers should be removed? I guess I don't really understand what you're saying here...

I suppose that the gate resistors don't *need* to be 2W but it doesn't hurt anything. From what I've seen gate resistors for IGBT modules do tend to be about that size. 



> With 12VDC on the driver board I get the expected +/- 15V outputs from all three DC-DC converters. Pretty soon I hope to connect the Dragon and explore the firmware. And I'll see if I can get the PFC chip working with a proper sense resistor.


I can confirm that, at least on the v14 hardware, a Dragon will work fine. It is a bit weird that the Arduino pro mini board I have requires that I tell it that the device is ATA6614Q in the Dragon interface. I guess this is an ATMEGA328 coupled to a LIN chip all in the same package. So, programming wise it is the same but you have to specify the right chip or Dragon will complain. There's no guarantee that you have the same module I do but you might.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for the info about the Dragon. 

I don't want to remove the opto-isolated gate drives. What I'm removing is U5, the PC817 opto used for input voltage measurement. 

As for the resistors, I took out the TR20 devices which are actually 20 watts:
http://www.viking.com.tw/ftp/TR.pdf

The ones on the other driver board appear to be carbon composition (or possibly wirewound) of about 1 watt. Wirewound could be a problem when used for gate drive resistors. It seems that both of these are non-inductive and measure less than 0.3 uH. 

The TR20 resistors are about $3 each and are clearly not needed. The axial lead resistor appear to be these:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/WHC10RFET/WHC10RFECT-ND/678987
http://www.ohmite.com/cat/res_wh_wn.pdf
They are wirewound and cost over $1 each. They are non-inductive as well, but are really more than necessary for the purpose.

I'm trying to analyze the design and determine what can be easily changed to reduce cost and improve performance.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I made a schematic of the basic EMW PFC circuit with some modifications I think will enhance performance and reliability:










I had mentioned that the current limiting function of the PFC circuit, using the proper value of the sense resistor, might be able to limit the input surge as the capacitors are charged, but I see that the IGBT cannot control the output when it is lower than the input. So, I thought about adding a power relay and precharge resistor, but for protection against an output short circuit, the resistor would need to be 10k 10W, and the TC for 560uF would be 5.6 seconds (and that's just to 63%).

So I added another IGBT that should use the same sense resistor and the inductor as a simple current limited buck converter. As a part of that circuit, I show a differential amplifier using an op-amp to get about 1.5 volts when 50 amps flows through a 0.0003 ohm sense resistor. This signal is inverted for use by the IR1153S and then inverted again for the buck limiter and for use by an external processor to show the current draw. Another differential amplifier reads the input voltage for the same purpose. Otherwise it's fairly straightforward and uses the same +/- 15V DC-DC converters as the EMW design. The isolation is really needed only for the current limiting IGBT, but I kept the same basic drive and power supply circuit as the EMW design because it may allow re-use of components, and it is a reasonable design.

I have not added all the bypass capacitors and other final touches, but this should be a good start for implementing the PFC front end. A non-PFC unit could be made by just bypassing this and using the usual rectifiers and capacitors, and I also considered the possibility of using phase-fired SCRs on the front end as surge limiters, although they may need some inductance to work well. It is possible to start with a phase delay of almost 180 degrees and then reduce it slowly to 90, at which point they will be switching at peak and full voltage will be applied to the capacitors.

If short-circuit protection (other than fuses and such) is not required, then it may be possible to use a power resistor of about 300 ohms to limit current to 1 ampere during charge, which would be a 168 mSec TC with 560 uF and maximum power of 300 watts. Then the relay could close across the resistor and normal operation may proceed.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Use a smaller bridge, fed by a capacitor in series with the mains for pre-charge. 
Once the voltage reaches nominal value fire a contactor for the main bridge rectifier. Or make it solid state with a SCR bridge.

Edit: If the leakage is not an issue (current in when the contactor is open) one could also place it across the contactor terminals, with a small value resistor. This would act both as a pre-charge and a snubber. 

Calculations:
Assuming XC >> R, in the event of a short circuit most power would be reactive with only a small portion being converted to heat in the resistor, so at maximum short circuit current:

Assuming a short circuit condition, under a 240V supply with 60Hz mains, 10W, 10R pre-charge resistor in series with a 8uF C.

at 60Hz XC = 330Ohm, in series with a 10Ohm resistor. Therefore the RMS current would be 710mA

With a 240V supply, under a short circuit condition, roughly 7.1W are wasted in the resistor and 233W of reactive power (710mA) are safely returned to the grid. 
The total impedance is 340Ohm and the parts add up to less than $10


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Here is a simulation of a buck current limiter that seems to work pretty well:










It should work with one of the A3120 gate drivers and the op-amp need not be anything special, although it needs to be able to work on a single supply (12 VDC) and with input to GND.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> After analyzing the PFC stage I realized that, if the current limits were working properly, there would be no need for the input surge limiters. It would simply go into current limiting mode until the main storage capacitors get charged up.
> 
> You can get a 0.0005 ohm 3 watt 1% SMT current sense resistor for about $0.75. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtlleCFQhR/zSLe9kSmbPbKREuv4a2KCyY=
> 
> ...


no it wouldn't help much. The bulk of the initial inrush does not have anything to do with PFC stage operation. Inrush is caused largely by PFC storage caps charging through the PFC diode. 

there are inrush resistors in most of the commercial power supplies for that reason.

That said, above certain power, a proper precharge circuit is better.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> It seems that the "go to page" feature is broken so I had to manually edit the URL to get to the post #1442 on page 145:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210p145.html
> 
> I think the choice of powdered iron rather than ferrite also involved the relatively low switching frequency of 15-20 kHz. Powdered iron essentially has a "distributed gap" which stores energy. Ferrite requires a physical gap in the magnetic circuit for this purpose, and that is difficult to do with a toroid. E-cores can simply have one or more legs ground off, or they can be assembled with a thin piece of hard insulating and non-magnetic material to separate the core sections.
> ...


We moved away from iron powder cores. Too lossy. 

The process of evaluation has been described across ~50 posts earlier in this thread. 

All current systems are shipped with the new inductors professionally wound by Spang (a sister company of Magnetics, inc) on the same size HighFlux core (Nickel-Fe core). These are much more expensive but offer 1/5th of the AC losses, while preserving similar saturation characteristics. 

With these changes, the inductors are no longer limiting thermal factors.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

cts_casemod said:


> You might want to replace the opto with a Si8261 digital isolator.
> 4A peak gate current. I use them everywhere now, even as charge pumps
> 
> 4.5mW at 20KHz seems very low. What IGBT is that and how fast are the rising and falling times? I would expect at least 200mW, average for something that has to deal with 50A+


This is a nice chip! Thanks - ordered, will try out shortly


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

I'm not as of yet quite clear why you want to use a buck stage Paul?

If the primary objective is to take "unnecessary components" (and you went to the extreme of removing big resistors that were technically too expensive) wouldn't adding a 50 Amps rated IGBT and required heatsinking (the way I see its in series with the input, so there will be a conduction loss of 1.5V * 50A = 75W) be defeating the primary purpose? 

Also its not a fool proof method. If the objective was to protect the charger in case of the secondary IGBT fault, one needs to address that there's 50% chance that the primary IGBT fails as well. 

If i may suggest this method would be better employed if the charger was designed to perform both buck and boost rectification trough the primary inductor. That would provide both PFC and regulation with a single stage with an increase in the overall efficiency and a reduction in parts (A single inductor would be needed)


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

valerun said:


> This is a nice chip! Thanks - ordered, will try out shortly


Should be pin compatible with other optos as well.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I made a schematic of the basic EMW PFC circuit with some modifications I think will enhance performance and reliability:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The standard way to make a proper pre-charging circuit is to have 2 relays. One low-power relay to connect your precharge resistor and start charging caps, another (high-power) relay to connect input directly once your caps are precharged.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Have you noticed strange behaviour of the charger V12 and beyond?
> When on full charger is working normally. But some time in the charge it goes to pause or even stops the charge. it then has to be restarted.
> ...


Hi Arber - are your buttons and LCD mounted on the board or remote via a wire?

If the latter, noise can be induced by the charger magnetics / power wires. To combat that, you can either shield the wiring better or decrease the value of the pull-down resistors on buttons to something like 1k. Or both...


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dcb said:


> I've never seen anything close to the micrometals t-400-30d on ebay, and they are not in the emw store. You will have to experiment with anything you get from ebay to make sure it is up to the task.
> 
> 
> Have you gone through the micrometals simulations that vale suggested?
> ...


You can get them directly from MicroMetals, min order of 1 case (I believe it's 12 pieces). 

But as I mentioned earlier, we have moved to professionally wound High-Flux inductors (pic below). 7 strands of AWG18, 30 turns on a dual 1016 High-Flux core from Magnetics, Inc. 

These are not cheap (~$100 per piece in 100 unit volume) but they work beautifully up to 100A DC bias and 40% ripple. And they are rated up to 200C continuous instead of <100C for iron powder.

We are also exploring another set of inductors now - fully potted units in aluminum casing so they can thermally connect to heatsink (and are easier to mount). Will post some pics shortly. The key there is to ensure the cores do not overheat inside the thermal compound. Therefore we had the manufacturer fit thermistors inside our first samples to measure wire & core hotspots directly. Testing now. 

V


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Valery: Seems you have become very active after the holidays! So, just a few notes from my perspective:

1. It would be good if you offered the new cores (and the older ones, if you still have stock) at a reasonable cost for those who may need replacements or want to upgrade.

2. Similarly, if you have some of the other more expensive or harder to get parts, offering them for sale as well.

3. Although most of the design has been extensively discussed in this thread, it is virtually impossible to search through and extract "the wheat from the chaff", as it were. Perhaps a separate repository for the vital points on each design element (such as the inductors and the PC817 issues) would be helpful. An EMW design Wiki?

4. It would be helpful if you made available some of the detailed design information and test data, especially the analysis of the inductor design. I am not fully convinced that the root problem is the core material, especially at the very low 20kHz switching frequency. It may very well be saturating, but probably because there is not enough inductance for the frequency and power level, and losses may be I^2R from the copper during saturation. A proper sample resistor and amplifier and scope trace would show what's going on.

I have probably veered away from my original intentions by looking at what I think is a better way to achieve start-up current limiting, but I still think it is useful. I would probably implement it with a MOSFET, rather than an IGBT, and thus be able to use a much higher frequency. I found a 600V 37A 100mOhm MOSFET for about $5:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMshyDBzk1/Wi5QPiGYOoYcONj6yeBEOwHA=
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/FCH104N60F-254653.pdf

Two in parallel would handle 50 amps with 125 watts dissipation, but if this is used only for start-up surge current limiting, a relay contact could be applied across it when the capacitors are charged. In fact, there is no reason why the precharge must be 50 amps, and a single MOSFET (or IGBT) could be used to charge at, say, 20 amps, which would take 75 mSec to charge 5000 uF to 300 volts. 

For every problem there are many solutions, and each solution presents additional challenges and considerations. My main intent is to see where there may be problems in this design and offer relatively simple and inexpensive add-on solutions. But the way the various boards are laid out and interconnected makes this difficult if not impossible. That is why I am pursuing a modular approach, where functions are either separated or combined for minimal interconnection and mostly autonomous operation, so that the control board will be mostly an operator interface and its I/O will be limited to monitoring and controlling the charging in a non-time-critical way.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I have probably veered away from my original intentions by looking at what I think is a better way to achieve start-up current limiting, but I still think it is useful. I would probably implement it with a MOSFET, rather than an IGBT, and thus be able to use a much higher frequency. I found a 600V 37A 100mOhm MOSFET for about $5:
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMshyDBzk1/Wi5QPiGYOoYcONj6yeBEOwHA=
> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/FCH104N60F-254653.pdf
> 
> Two in parallel would handle 50 amps with 125 watts dissipation, but if this is used only for start-up surge current limiting, a relay contact could be applied across it when the capacitors are charged. In fact, there is no reason why the precharge must be 50 amps, and a single MOSFET (or IGBT) could be used to charge at, say, 20 amps, which would take 75 mSec to charge 5000 uF to 300 volts.


Using the relay would remove the advantage to go solid state altogether.

Just in case this got missed, the reason I suggested the thyristor was because it would do both the job of the rectifier (AC to DC) and the relay. As such there would be no additional circuit losses, other than those already present.

Now seriously speaking, Paul, why such a concern with the charging time? have you taken into account what would happen if the plug contacts bounced during plug insertion? 

I certainly wouldn't want the current to rise to quicker than 5 seconds. 
For the pre-charge seems like a good compromise between inrush current when plugging to a live socket and protection in case the user decided to take the plug out after insertion for some reason (maybe some debris on the connector and the plug was not fully fitted).

About your current source, I don't dislike the idea, but with modifications:


As mentioned, control power trough a SCR bridge rather than a contactor, IGBT...
Have a second small bridge for the precharge. This could simply be a half wave rectifier again controlled by a thyristor to make it solid state. For a small charging current like 3~5A this could be part of the main PCB
Use a low duty cycle PWM and a small inductor to charge the capacitors, in such a way that the Step down SM CC source IGBT would not be in series with the main circuit path.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> 1. It would be good if you offered the new cores (and the older ones, if you still have stock) at a reasonable cost for those who may need replacements or want to upgrade.


good idea. Done - reinstated in the product section of our site now. http://emotorwerks.com/products/onl.../27-70-100a-inductor-for-our-charging-systems. As I said before, this is a much costlier option than our previous one but we have decided to absorb the cost hike and keep the pricing of our products the same.




PStechPaul said:


> 4. It would be helpful if you made available some of the detailed design information and test data, especially the analysis of the inductor design. I am not fully convinced that the root problem is the core material, especially at the very low 20kHz switching frequency. It may very well be saturating, but probably because there is not enough inductance for the frequency and power level, and losses may be I^2R from the copper during saturation. A proper sample resistor and amplifier and scope trace would show what's going on.


Paul - the inductor selection, tuning, etc was probably 1/3rd of the time put into this product. I just can't spend days of my time writing it all up here to convince you. Some other members of this forum have helped with the inductor qualification (tomofreno most notably) and influenced us to move to the High-Flux. Yes, the proper inductor current sensing was done during the studies and saturation plots obtained. There are also saturation datasheets based on tests of these units by Spang / Magnetics. The new inductors lose ~30% of their initial inductance at 70A bias. The old ones lost 50%. 

In either case, if the inductor ever saturated completely, nobody would have their chargers working at all. 

Finally, yes, the losses from I^2*R are there - no matter what the inductor does. The losses from the core for Micrometals exceed copper losses. Core losses are very problematic in that case because (1) heat is hard to remove (generated deep inside) and (2) powder iron material starts to age rapidly above 90-100C. High Flux reduces AC losses by a factor of 3-5 and is rated at 200C continuous without thermal aging.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> 3. Although most of the design has been extensively discussed in this thread, it is virtually impossible to search through and extract "the wheat from the chaff", as it were. Perhaps a separate repository for the vital points on each design element (such as the inductors and the PC817 issues) would be helpful. An EMW design Wiki?


another good idea. I think you also mentioned that before - a 'theory of operation' type of document. This will be done in the next 4 weeks. We are onboarding a new engineer onto this product and I will have to do this anyway so no marginal cost


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> But the way the various boards are laid out and interconnected makes this difficult if not impossible. That is why I am pursuing a modular approach, where functions are either separated or combined for minimal interconnection and mostly autonomous operation, so that the control board will be mostly an operator interface and its I/O will be limited to monitoring and controlling the charging in a non-time-critical way.


Latest version attempts to separate this more. All HV dividers are moved to the power board so power-to-driver interface does not have any high potential differences anymore. Control board is running logic and connects to driver board for PWM output and sensor inputs. 

Further modularization could be to split the processing tasks into 2 MCUs - one would run high-speed control of the switchers and all sensing. It would transmit status etc to the 'interface' MCU at a relatively infrequent interval (say, every 10ms). Perhaps we should do this at some point. 

But first I want to move the code to the Due platform which will offer huge improvements across the board. Including things like CANbus control etc. Collin is doing some great work there and I am hoping to see this done in December. This is an example of a collaborative approach I wish everyone adopted.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

As promised, here's a snap of the potted inductor we are considering now, esp for sealed, liquid-cooled units some of our industrial customers want.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

valerun said:


> Further modularization could be to split the processing tasks into 2 MCUs - one would run high-speed control of the switchers and all sensing. It would transmit status etc to the 'interface' MCU at a relatively infrequent interval (say, every 10ms). Perhaps we should do this at some point.
> 
> But first I want to move the code to the Due platform which will offer huge improvements across the board. Including things like CANbus control etc. Collin is doing some great work there and I am hoping to see this done in December. This is an example of a collaborative approach I wish everyone adopted.


I'm not sure that it is really necessary to use two processors but the potential is there to do so. I2C is handy for this purpose. If ARM Cortex chips are used then they have multiple I2C ports so it's not a problem to dedicate one to inter-processor comm. Two processors makes it potentially more robust as a failure in one can automatically kill the whole charging process (if done properly.) At this point in time the Arduino run-time disables the watchdog circuitry on the Due and likely on ATMEGA chips as well. This makes use of a single processor a bit scarier than it otherwise would be. I don't know what might happen if the processor locks up (there are many versions of "locks up") but there is the potential that the PWM would not freeze and then the charging could get stuck. Using two processors can help with this but every single added component is another point of failure. Two processors are not necessarily more robust than one. With two processors either could fail (twice the chance). Some automotive grade processors have tandem cores that operate in lockstep and will fault if the two disagree. This causes potentially higher reliability of operation at the risk of twice the potential for a failure causing things to abort. It is an option if things absolutely, positively have to work correctly or not at all. You can really fall down the rabbit hole when discussing this stuff. The options are endless.

The Due / Cortex M3 is something like 10 times faster than the atmega328 and has a lot more hardware, tons more RAM, and a very large FLASH space. So, I think it'll really bring things to the next level. CANBus is really easy on the Due and things could progress pretty quickly on that front. One thing I really like about the Due is hardware DMA. This is handy for things like ADC and PWM where you can set a whole range of values and have the processor shuttle them back and forth behind your back (and for no processor time!)

My work is hosted at https://github.com/collin80 There's lots of stuff in there including a version of the VMCharger code. That version compiles with the 1.5.x version of the Arduino IDE and doesn't require any external libraries that wouldn't be included with the IDE so you can just basically compile it and go. Of course, be careful since it is a work in progress and not as fully tested as EMW official versions. I've tried it out several times and it is currently working. But, it should, of course, be considered to be suspect at this point and not used unattended at this point.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't really agree with the principle of using a processor to perform the cycle by cycle PWM and feedback loop for the charging function of what is essentially a simple boost converter topology. It is after all just a battery charger, and all it needs to do is convert an AC or DC source to an adjustable current source determined by user-supplied specifications and the charging profile of the battery pack. It is more appropriate, IMHO, to use well-proven analog techniques and perhaps a dedicated current-mode switching controller, and use a processor and A/D sampling of current and voltage to implement the specification. 

Assuming that a microcontroller is needed for a user interface hard-wired to the unit, or a remote display such as a touch-screen hand-held device or Bluetooth or WiFi, the use of hobby type hardware such as the Arduino may not be the best choice. I happen to prefer the Microchip PIC product line, but the Atmel devices are also quite capable. But it is not difficult to build the hardware with the actual device and I/O as actually needed, and not need the additional interconnections of the Mini Pro, UNO, Due, or whatever else is preferred.

I was wondering if the Arduino used a watchdog timer. I did not notice any code for resetting it in the loops of the sketches I looked at, and I saw some places where the code could possibly hang up. Maybe your revised code has some improvement, but I am not impressed with the present implementation up to Ver 13 or 14 that I have seen. I have implemented a boost converter using a PIC16F684 with PWM up to 100 kHz, and found that it was difficult to stabilize using just the ADC and software-adjusted PWM.

I don't want to seem overly critical, but I think this design needs a complete make-over. Perhaps I can make some tweaks so that those with the present versions may be able to get better reliability. It will be interesting to see the details of the latest design, and hopefully it will adequately address the concerns I and others have raised, and the problems that have been encountered.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

valerun said:


> Latest version attempts to separate this more. All HV dividers are moved to the power board so power-to-driver interface does not have any high potential differences anymore. Control board is running logic and connects to driver board for PWM output and sensor inputs.
> 
> Further modularization could be to split the processing tasks into 2 MCUs - one would run high-speed control of the switchers and all sensing. It would transmit status etc to the 'interface' MCU at a relatively infrequent interval (say, every 10ms). Perhaps we should do this at some point.
> 
> But first I want to move the code to the Due platform which will offer huge improvements across the board. Including things like CANbus control etc. Collin is doing some great work there and I am hoping to see this done in December. This is an example of a collaborative approach I wish everyone adopted.



Assuming the Due would be used, one could take advantage of the built in hardware PWM drivers rather than a second CPU. There is a programmable hardware (not CPU dependent) fault input to make the outputs tristate in case of a fault, for example a de-saturation fault of the IGBT driver (which I think should also be implemented) or a over-voltage hardware fault that could be used if the processor freezes with the PWM still operating.

LCD refresh, which is the most time consuming task, could be performed using DMA which would free the CPU from most load.



PStechPaul said:


> I don't really agree with the principle of using a processor to perform the cycle by cycle PWM and feedback loop for the charging function of what is essentially a simple boost converter topology. It is after all just a battery charger, and all it needs to do is convert an AC or DC source to an adjustable current source determined by user-supplied specifications and the charging profile of the battery pack. It is more appropriate, IMHO, to use well-proven analog techniques and perhaps a dedicated current-mode switching controller, and use a processor and A/D sampling of current and voltage to implement the specification.


Agree. Altough the arm processors do have built in hardware to achieve that making it a bit more reliable that the current implementation with the MEGA328.

Vallery, I need to point out again, that rather than continuing to work on an approach with a single inductor it could be cost effective to downsize and use a few individual cores of a smaller capacity. This would allow the charger to be modular regarding the required power, and would be particularly interesting for multiphase operation.

This would also make part availability a bit more simple. I am guessing that such large inductors are quite 'exotic' components, but going down into the 30A range surely there would be a few more choices.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

To address one issue that I have mentioned a while back, the new DC-DC converters are unregulated, and may put out more voltage than their specified +/- 15V with a light load. I am using a Traco TMA0512D which is a 1 watt 5V to +/-12V device, and with no load it produces 44 volts from the (+) to (-) terminal. I would expect a similar +/-15V device would produce even more, and perhaps enough to damage an IGBT rated at +/-20V on the gate. But I soldered some 1SMA5929 zeners across the outputs, and the voltages are now very close to +/-15, with no noticeable heating of the diodes or the converter. I'm sure the same thing would happen with the new DC-DC converters used in the EMW design. I think these are the latest:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PEM2-S12-D15-S/102-2776-ND/4009699
and these are the previous versions:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/VESD2-S12-D15-SIP/102-2065-ND/2295102
although I have a board with Recom RD-1215D

I am making an IGBT driver board that will plug into a module that has an Arduino UNO and a connector for a 128x160 TFT display, and the power components for a simple buck regulator. This was and may still be a low power prototype for a front end pre-charge device, but it may also suffice as a low power buck converter to be used as a battery charger. The same principles may be used in a scaled-up version and an alternate means of controlling the EMW 12kW charger. At least it may be used to learn more about the operation of the charger and the high power components. More on that later, but for now I suggest adding these zeners or 1N4744 and making sure that the unloaded output is within safe gate voltage limits.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

The DC-DC modules are specified for a minimum load of 10%, that's why the voltages drift. They are also required to have a stabilized input.

The manufacturer clearly states:

To ensure this module can operate efficiently and reliably, a minimum load is
specified for this kind of DC/DC converter in addition to a maximum load
(namely full load). During operation, make sure the specified range of input
voltage is not exceeded, the minimum output load is​​​​*not less than 10% *of the​
full load, and that this product should *not be operated under no load*!

Which means higher voltages are likely to damage not only the IGBT but the device itself. 

No zener diode is required, assuming the input is regulated, just make sure the minimum load is present, if not place a 2K resistor across the + to 0 and 0 to - to keep the output balanced.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

cts_casemod said:


> Assuming the Due would be used, one could take advantage of the built in hardware PWM drivers rather than a second CPU. There is a programmable hardware (not CPU dependent) fault input to make the outputs tristate in case of a fault, for example a de-saturation fault of the IGBT driver (which I think should also be implemented) or a over-voltage hardware fault that could be used if the processor freezes with the PWM still operating.
> 
> LCD refresh, which is the most time consuming task, could be performed using DMA which would free the CPU from most load.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much what I was saying. The ARM chip is much more capable hardware-wise and so you can take advantage of that to really take a lot of load off of the CPU. Not that you'd necessarily need to since it is so much faster anyway. Also, the ARM chip is 32bit native so it can crunch a lot more data per cycle anyway. 

The firmware for the charger uses a lot of 32 bit integers and floats - both of which are slow on an ATMEGA328 especially floating point. I'd like to do away with floating point because it is slow even on a Due (I believe you need an M4 chip to get an FPU) but it's a big job to turn hundreds of lines of floating point into fixed point. I don't believe that a charger really needs floating point. The precision of all the reported things - voltage, current, etc is not so high that you'd need 12 digit precision. I think that it could use 32bit fixed point with +/- 999,999,999 (9 digits used plus and minus) and set the decimal digits to 3 or 4 to give a range of +/- 99999.9999 This would be worlds faster in processing time but currently the code does run on a little ATMEGA328 so I don't see it being critically important to do right away.

The LCD is currently done via serial with text messages. It isn't pixel addressed so the refresh really isn't that time consuming anyway. Though, you certainly can DMA to the serial port and have the refreshes work in the background. One thing I do not like at all about the Arduino approach is that serial sending is blocking. They really should be doing interrupt based sending for serial data but they don't. Instead you sit around waiting for each byte to send before loading up the next. This is really, really slow when you are running 9600 baud. The Due can execute 70,000 instructions in the time it takes to send a byte at that speed. So, DMA is a vast improvement over the existing approach. But, interrupts would work nearly as well. If the ADC were set to DMA then it might make sense to do DMA ADC and interrupt serial as I believe the Cortex M3 is only dual port RAM so doing too many DMA operations will cause it to block somewhere for memory accesses. But, I haven't fully investigated the timing for this yet.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

I figured I'd also mention my experience with the 12kw charger so far.

I've had pretty good luck with the charger. I've heard a lot of stories from various people but I have not really had trouble. During all my testing of firmware I have not had the charger really malfunction. Once I had parameters wrong and it sent 100A to the battery pack. This caused the charger to hit overload in hardware or something and squeal like a pig but didn't hurt it. It's always a bit noisy (inductors sound like a washing machine) when charging but maybe that's just how it goes when you are pulling this sort of power.

There are a couple of things I found annoying but they aren't show stoppers: 

1. The buttons don't always register that well. I think this could be partly a software issue which is something I can fix. Someone mentioned that maybe the resistor network at the buttons is a bit out of range so maybe I'll investigate that as well.

2. It has no bleeder resistor by default so it stays "hot" when you disconnect it from AC and the battery. This makes transport a bit dicey unless you bleed it yourself. I suppose it's supposed to stay in the car connected to the battery so this isn't an issue for most people but when I'm doing all sorts of tests I run into it. Luckily I happen to have bleeders on hand so life goes on.

3. No built-in precharge circuitry (yet). I know this is on the docket but when you do a lot of testing disconnecting and reconnecting you have to try to precharge it a lot. I installed a single current limiter on the incoming AC. This is better than zero current limiters. I have not been precharging the battery connection though I should. It's a pain in the butt to precharge this side but maybe I'll put my other inrush limiter resistor on the battery connection. So far it hasn't broken anything to just let it blast current in when I connect the battery. But, it does seem to pull a surge and it's probably not good to do that hundreds of times. I'd like to see all the precharging be part of the charger in the future. I'm pretty sure that is the plan. Really the most important is to precharge at the AC line since that's where the connecting and disconnecting normally takes place. The battery side could stay connected forever for all it matters. Though, I'll bet some people will want to disconnect that when not in use too.

All in all the charger has been working fine for me. The configuration seems to work fine and it outputs the voltage and current you ask it to. So, thus far I've found it to be reliable. I even ran custom firmware on it with screwy charging parameters and didn't blow it up.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

the lcd interrupt approach (assuming atmega) doesn't seem like it would be any faster since you halt the main thread to service it.

fixed point is the way to go though if you are in need of optimizations.

P.S. thanks for the inductor updates Vale!


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

dcb said:


> the lcd interrupt approach (assuming atmega) doesn't seem like it would be any faster since you halt the main thread to service it.
> 
> fixed point is the way to go though if you are in need of optimizations.
> 
> P.S. thanks for the inductor updates Vale!


It's faster. Allow me to show the difference:

You want to send the string "1234"

No interrupts:
1. Load "1" into the serial transmit register
2. Wait while byte is sent (spin lock for 1/1200 of a second at 9600 baud)
3. Load "2" into the serial transmit register
4. Wait while byte is sent (spinlock)
etc

Interrupts:
1. Load "1" into serial transmit register
2. Load "234" into serial buffer
3. Go about your business in the sketch
4. 1/1200 of a second later the transmit register clears
5. Interrupt happens. "2" is loaded into transmit register
6. Go about your business in the sketch
7. 1/1200 of a second later the transmit register clears
etc.

Thus, the interrupt driven approach has the advantage in that the sketch resumes while the transmit buffer is being sent whereas the first version has to literally sit there and spinlock on the transmit buffer until it clears.

The DMA approach is even better:
1. Load "1234" into a memory buffer
2. Tell the DMA to send it to the serial port
3. Go about your business

But, you can only do this on the ARM Cortex based Due and not on all the other Arduino boards.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

The real thing to have in mind is not the arm processor speed, but the arduino environment which is damn slow as it has to make all the conversions.

If one is to bypass this software layer and directly access the hardware then things start to go much faster, but in the end, its all down to the programmer. 

I managed to get marginal speed differences between an atmega328 and a due many times, by using direct port manipulation and low leval functions, for example using the atmel serial print feature rather than the arduino Serialprint("Call this function a 1000 times!") which is just plain ridiculous.

The same thing for ADC's I use an interrupt based ADC reading and set the clock to whatever frequency I need, sometimes with manual triggering. Why on earth would one have to wait for the results to be available, or execute them once every loop if not needed? The same is true for the serial buffer, as pointed by CKidder.

The other smart thing many beginners forget about are look up tables and bit shifts rather than divisions, when possible.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> Valery: Seems you have become very active after the holidays! So, just a few notes from my perspective:
> 
> 1. It would be good if you offered the new cores (and the older ones, if you still have stock) at a reasonable cost for those who may need replacements or want to upgrade.
> 
> ...


 Wow Paul, you are really good at coming up with things for other people to do! Maybe you should do some of them?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have looked at the code, including CKidder's latest, and there are still many things I would do differently. That may be "programmer bias", and I recognize that there are many ways to implement functionality, but I do think the floating point has to be reserved for display purposes only. It is especially problematic in interrupt service routines. I'm not all that familiar with the Arduino code, but it seems to be a sort of higher level or interpretive version of C or C++. Thus, some functions, such as changing the PWM DC using AnalogWrite(), includes code to set the pin function and perhaps perform other calculations and setup, rather than just writing a value to the PR register. 

I use the software simulator for the Microchip PIC products, and have been surprised sometimes by the overhead of ISRs. In many cases this is due to poor optimization, but it also may be due to other sometimes subtle reasons that can often be seen in the assembly code. This may be corrected by using efficient coding techniques, and sometimes requires the use of low level assembler code.

As mentioned, multiplication and division can often be performed using shift functions on integers, which is much faster. Decimal points can be added for display purposes where speed is irrelevant. Averages can be taken by adding blocks of four, eight, or any convenient number, and the resulting integer can be used directly which can give a little more precision without the overhead of FP. Analog samples are best taken at a rate which corresponds to an integral number of half-cycles of the line frequency, so a 600 Hz sample rate gives 5 samples at 60 Hz and 6 samples at 50 Hz. This is a crude form of software filtering.

True RMS readings are also possible without using FP. Each sample is multiplied by itself (squared) and added to a sample buffer. After a certain number of samples has been taken, the total can be reduced to an integer of perhaps 12 bits (0-4095). Then a look-up table with just 128 entries can be used to find the closest 7 bit value that is the square root. The scaling of the original data can be restored by taking into account the number of shifts required to normalize the value to 12 bits. Such a technique may not be necessary with today's fast processors and math hardware, but my programming experience extends back to the days when the 8 MHz Z80 was advanced technology.

PS: To TomOfReno et al: I am making suggestions to the entire development team, in the spirit of a collaborative open source effort, and I am also doing things myself that are intended to support and enhance the product, and add to my understanding. But, like many such endeavors, there is an authoritative central entity (Valery) who ultimately makes the final decisions. I can accept many of these facets of the design, but there are some that I feel strongly about, so I want to pursue my own path to an improved product. 

The modular approach that I will be detailing mostly in my thread can be conducive to better utilization of resources by allowing functional blocks to be interchanged while keeping the other components the same. But this requires a lot of forethought and standardization, such as plug-in cards like the old PC ISA bus that allowed thousands of innovations to be developed while keeping the basic core essentially the same (and even that could be upgraded to a point).


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have looked at the code, including CKidder's latest, and there are still many things I would do differently. That may be "programmer bias", and I recognize that there are many ways to implement functionality, but I do think the floating point has to be reserved for display purposes only. It is especially problematic in interrupt service routines. I'm not all that familiar with the Arduino code, but it seems to be a sort of higher level or interpretive version of C or C++. Thus, some functions, such as changing the PWM DC using AnalogWrite(), includes code to set the pin function and perhaps perform other calculations and setup, rather than just writing a value to the PR register. 

I use the software simulator for the Microchip PIC products, and have been surprised sometimes by the overhead of ISRs. In many cases this is due to poor optimization, but it also may be due to other sometimes subtle reasons that can often be seen in the assembly code. This may be corrected by using efficient coding techniques, and sometimes requires the use of low level assembler code.

As mentioned, multiplication and division can often be performed using shift functions on integers, which is much faster. Decimal points can be added for display purposes where speed is irrelevant. Averages can be taken by adding blocks of four, eight, or any convenient number, and the resulting integer can be used directly which can give a little more precision without the overhead of FP. Analog samples are best taken at a rate which corresponds to an integral number of half-cycles of the line frequency, so a 600 Hz sample rate gives 5 samples at 60 Hz and 6 samples at 50 Hz. This is a crude form of software filtering.

True RMS readings are also possible without using FP. Each sample is multiplied by itself (squared) and added to a sample buffer. After a certain number of samples has been taken, the total can be reduced to an integer of perhaps 12 bits (0-4095). Then a look-up table with just 128 entries can be used to find the closest 7 bit value that is the square root. The scaling of the original data can be restored by taking into account the number of shifts required to normalize the value to 12 bits. Such a technique may not be necessary with today's fast processors and math hardware, but my programming experience extends back to the days when the 8 MHz Z80 was advanced technology.

PS: To TomOfReno et al: I am making suggestions to the entire development team, in the spirit of a collaborative open source effort, and I am also doing things myself that are intended to support and enhance the product, and add to my understanding. But, like many such endeavors, there is an authoritative central entity (Valery) who ultimately makes the final decisions. I can accept many of these facets of the design, but there are some that I feel strongly about, so I want to pursue my own path to an improved product. 

The modular approach that I will be detailing mostly in my thread can be conducive to better utilization of resources by allowing functional blocks to be interchanged while keeping the other components the same. But this requires a lot of forethought and standardization, such as plug-in cards like the old PC ISA bus that allowed thousands of innovations to be developed while keeping the basic core essentially the same (and even that could be upgraded to a point).


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Test post - recent posts do not show?


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

No arguments on dma, learned that from johannes on the st32 platform. (and he has lookup tables too)

yah, fixed point is essentially bitshift. But it is possible to send one character at a time without waiting without interrupts as well, and you can send it when the code is essentially idle (if such a place exists in your code). interrupts add overhead, so fully optimized interrupts would actually be slower, but it is nothing compared to a layer of arduino calls.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

*Test*

I jiggled the handle


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

from www.gif.net


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> I have looked at the code, including CKidder's latest, and there are still many things I would do differently.


Yeah, me too. So far most of my work has been to reorganize the existing code to be easier to work with. The actual changes will come later on. I think the only really big change I've made so far is to turn the whole thing into a non blocking unified state machine. That should appeal to the programmers out there but doesn't appreciably change how everything works.



> That may be "programmer bias", and I recognize that there are many ways to implement functionality, but I do think the floating point has to be reserved for display purposes only. It is especially problematic in interrupt service routines. I'm not all that familiar with the Arduino code, but it seems to be a sort of higher level or interpretive version of C or C++. Thus, some functions, such as changing the PWM DC using AnalogWrite(), includes code to set the pin function and perhaps perform other calculations and setup, rather than just writing a value to the PR register.


Yes, I've covered how I'm no fan of floating point on processors with no FPU. I would prefer to switch to fixed point of some sort. It is also true that there is overhead to Arduino calls. Usually people code around Arduino where speed matters. Though, if you are only calling AnalogWrite a few times a second then it doesn't matter if it maybe takes 0.1ms to execute. That's not really that bad. Now, if you had the CPU fully controlling the PWM with high resolution and you needed to change the duty cycle rapidly then that's another story. Then you'd want to either directly set the register or use DMA to have the hardware set itself essentially. It all depends on how often you need to make the calls. Slow calls are fine if you call them infrequently and they don't end up blocking anything important.



> As mentioned, multiplication and division can often be performed using shift functions on integers, which is much faster. Decimal points can be added for display purposes where speed is irrelevant. Averages can be taken by adding blocks of four, eight, or any convenient number, and the resulting integer can be used directly which can give a little more precision without the overhead of FP. Analog samples are best taken at a rate which corresponds to an integral number of half-cycles of the line frequency, so a 600 Hz sample rate gives 5 samples at 60 Hz and 6 samples at 50 Hz. This is a crude form of software filtering.


The ARM Cortex chip does single cycle multiplies of 32 bit integers so multiplication optimization isn't as important. Division is fairly fast on the ARM chip but still alternative techniques can be faster.



> True RMS readings are also possible without using FP. Each sample is multiplied by itself (squared) and added to a sample buffer. After a certain number of samples has been taken, the total can be reduced to an integer of perhaps 12 bits (0-4095). Then a look-up table with just 128 entries can be used to find the closest 7 bit value that is the square root. The scaling of the original data can be restored by taking into account the number of shifts required to normalize the value to 12 bits. Such a technique may not be necessary with today's fast processors and math hardware, but my programming experience extends back to the days when the 8 MHz Z80 was advanced technology.


Yeah, it pays to keep in mind that a Cortex chip can do single cycle multiplies and barrel shifts 0-32 bits in a single cycle too. It's native 32bit so such values are processed in a single shot. This vastly makes a lot of things easier and faster for averaging and RMS purposes. Thus, I don't know that look up tables are quite as handy. But, it also has a ton of RAM (comparatively speaking) so if you do need lookup tables you can make lots of them.

Anyway, the code is actively being worked on both by me and Valery. So, it doesn't hurt to offer suggestions and critiques. The worst that can happen is that nobody does it. But, at best it helps to set a good direction forward. It seems like most everyone agrees that DMA and fixed point are helpful and that interrupts should be fast. I can think of many ways to improve the existing code in logical ways. What exists now is good and works but there are natural evolutions that can improve it in various ways - switching to fixed point, removing serial transmit blocking, pin change based button presses, addition of more features, switching to a faster processor (AKA, the ARM chip from the Due). These things can improve what already exists to be even better and faster. And, like I said, it seems like everyone is pretty much on the same page so that makes things pretty straight forward.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Sounds like the project is in good hands. The charger would be easier to analyze, troubleshoot, and fix if there were absolutely rock solid documentation in the form of accurate schematics and well-commented code. Actually the code is pretty good in that respect, although it is somewhat convoluted, but much of the hardware design is obfuscated by schematics that do not match the PCBs, and changes that appear only in the build notes.

I hope the new boards and schematics are properly synchronized, and known deficiencies have been addressed. IIRC these were being "worked on" about 6 months ago but I don't think I've seen the latest version. What I have is V14, and I have posted mark-ups of these with various issues identified. These were from what were supposed to be the latest as of August 2014:
http://www.emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber - are your buttons and LCD mounted on the board or remote via a wire?
> 
> If the latter, noise can be induced by the charger magnetics / power wires. To combat that, you can either shield the wiring better or decrease the value of the pull-down resistors on buttons to something like 1k. Or both...


Well

I changed pull down resistors to 4.7K and i put 600uH 6kVA E inductor in. It now works on 3phase at 30A. I also put in one Fuji 2MBI100NC-120 IGBT. I still have to prepare some replacement material for testing at higher amps.

I use about a foot of cable inside alu charger box and a little more on the outside towards LCD. I also connected a shield to GND plane of control PCB. Is that ok? Or do i have to connect it to car chassis? I must say charger still goes into pause after some 10minutes... I can force it to work trough by constantly pressing the green button. I guess it overrides the pause routine.

Up untill now i didnt have any problems with controls even on 3phase. But now i even sense tingeling if i touch charger case and some car chassis GND point. When i measure i get 80VAC between charger and chassis. No DC voltage though. Hm... Now that i have N line free of the power section i can connect house GND cable to charger case. I will see if that cures the problem. 

It all started when i went to 600VDC 3phase, wired the two 4700uF caps in series and when i changed to 2MBI100NC-120 igbt. I am also using 6R8 gate resistor instead 9R1 datasheet says. Here is my question: Could the problem be the smaller resistor that could cause ringing in IGBT? Could the caps somehow caused this?

My batts are full now, but tomorrow i will try if single phase makes same problem...

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Well
> 
> I changed pull down resistors to 4.7K and i put 600uH 6kVA E inductor in. It now works on 3phase at 30A. I also put in one Fuji 2MBI100NC-120 IGBT. I still have to prepare some replacement material for testing at higher amps.
> 
> ...


Well i connected to single phase and there was still pausing at random times...
I tried to see the red button line on my scope; there is a constant sawtooth signal going trough the line. I guess this is result of IGBT switching. It is low about 1 - 2V but occasionally it goes trough 3V!

I made some changes in code. at the red button i put 10ms delay in the form of repeated if function, the same as at BMS line. 

Does anyone have any suggestion how to put 10ms delay in more elegant?

// red button?
if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH) {
// check if noise
delay(10);
if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH) {
for(int zz=0; zz<10; zz++) {
if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==LOW) bmask&=0b01; // reset bit 1
delay(5);
}
bmask|=0b10; // set bit 1
}}

It now works for an hour or so without interruption at 3phase 600VDC input and 30A 144V output. PWM runs at 14kHz and it holds at 29°C.
When i get another driver chip and +/-15V PSU i will start testing up to 60A. I dont think measly 100A IGBT will withstand any more.

A


----------



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Well i connected to single phase and there was still pausing at random times...
> I tried to see the red button line on my scope; there is a constant sawtooth signal going trough the line. I guess this is result of IGBT switching. It is low about 1 - 2V but occasionally it goes trough 3V!
> 
> I made some changes in code. at the red button i put 10ms delay in the form of repeated if function, the same as at BMS line.
> ...


Interesting. I would have thought that the 4.7k pull down would be enough to keep the voltage under 2v let alone 3v. The control board is pretty close to the driver board. It might be educational to see what happens if you put a shield in between the two boards. This is complicated by the fact that a proper shield is likely to be conductive but those boards have exposed pins. 

Have you checked the incoming power to the control board? It gets its power from the driver board and I wonder if enough activity at the driver board could cause the incoming power to get funky. 

Lastly, I would think it's possible that your scope is picking up the induced voltage and not the button. Have you tried putting the ground clip right on the end of your probe and placing it near the red button but not touching to see what happens? It is possible for the super sensitive probe to pick up more stray signal than the button with a pull down. I have heard of things like this happening near inductive sources.

I'm not an EE and maybe you know better than me but I figured I'd offer what suggestions I could.

More to my actual area of expertise: for more elegant delays, you can do it by setting a variable to the output of millis() and then checking millis() later to see if it is 10 higher than the variable you set. That would be 10ms later. This decouples the code into two chunks so it looks a bit more complicated but it doesn't block.


// red button?
if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH && someVariable == 0) {
someVariable = millis() + 10;
}
else if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH && millis() > someVariable) {
//do something here
}


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Why do you check if someVariable == 0? That would only be true once before the loop runs (?)
Anyway, that could be re-written as:


```
// red button?
    if((pin_pwrCtrlButton) && (!someVariable)) {
        someVariable = (millis() + 10);
    }
    else if((pin_pwrCtrlButton) && (millis() > someVariable)) {
        //do something here
    }
```
Also not to forget that before setup you would have to declare 


```
long somevariable = 0;
```
Assuming you don't need an accurate delay you could use a loop to burn time.
This would save some CPU time as the millis function uses a long (32bit) variable that continuously has to be checked plus a subtraction, but just as the millis, it wont lock you code as the delay function does. 

The flag could be used to other things as well. 


```
...
int16_t mydelay = 0;
byte delay_flag = 0;
...
setup()
{
...
}
void loop()
{
...
mydelay++
if (mydelay > 60000) //Change this to change the delay time. Range 0...65535
{
mydelay = 0;
delay_flag = 1;
}

//elsewhere in the loop

//if you_wanna_add_a_delay

if(pin_pwrCtrlButton) // Check if PWRCTRL button is high 
{
delay_flag = 0;
}

if (delay_flag)
{
//if delay_flag returns true this code will execute
}
```

arber333, did you made sure there was no noise on the voltage and current reading ADC's? perhaps a RC filter would be recommended to attenuate the signal a bit. I assume, at least the voltage signal comes from a R divider, so just add a 1uF capacitor in parallel from that pin on the uC to GND


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

cts_casemod said:


> arber333, did you made sure there was no noise on the voltage and current reading ADC's? perhaps a RC filter would be recommended to attenuate the signal a bit. I assume, at least the voltage signal comes from a R divider, so just add a 1uF capacitor in parallel from that pin on the uC to GND


Which ADCs are you talking about? On the control board or the driver?
Vsense and Csense lines already have decoupling caps. 
Maybe you think one 1uf cap across the 4.7K button pulldown resistor pulling the signal to gnd? Or do you think i should put one 100nf cap across 12V supply pins, since there is now only one big 470uF cap. Will try later, for now i will play with the code a bit since there is the best improvement...

TNX

A


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

arber333 said:


> Which ADCs are you talking about? On the control board or the driver?
> Vsense and Csense lines already have decoupling caps.
> Maybe you think one 1uf cap across the 4.7K button pulldown resistor pulling the signal to gnd? Or do you think i should put one 100nf cap across 12V supply pins, since there is now only one big 470uF cap. Will try later, for now i will play with the code a bit since there is the best improvement...
> 
> ...


Vsense line. Check if you have noise on that line, including a solid ground. Could be a variety of things from decoupling to bad joints/socket, hence my suggestion of soldering the cap directly to the physical pin to clear any doubts.

I'm not assuming decoupling to be the issue, however perhaps it would be a good idea to add some code to do serial/tft debugging to see if the CPU reboots at some point. For example a variable that increments once every second would indicate if the program restarted for some reason.

You could also start the charge and disable the stop button to clear any issues regarding signal integrity.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CKidder said:


> Interesting. I would have thought that the 4.7k pull down would be enough to keep the voltage under 2v let alone 3v. The control board is pretty close to the driver board. It might be educational to see what happens if you put a shield in between the two boards. This is complicated by the fact that a proper shield is likely to be conductive but those boards have exposed pins.
> 
> Have you checked the incoming power to the control board? It gets its power from the driver board and I wonder if enough activity at the driver board could cause the incoming power to get funky.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the code suggestion.
Actually i am ME aeronautical background... so i dont persume i know better than EE . 
I noticed that 12V input is full of noise DOH! it actually propagates trough the output wires and also alu case. I had to electricaly (small 20mm sealant blocks) separate charger from the car chassis in order to have a functional BMS. But up untill now i had no problems with this setup. It is only now with this IGBT and caps configured for 800VDC i see some EMI shadow.

A


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

arber333 said:


> Thanks for the code suggestion.
> Actually i am ME aeronautical background... so i dont persume i know better than EE .
> I noticed that 12V input is full of noise DOH! it actually propagates trough the output wires and also alu case. I had to electricaly (small 20mm sealant blocks) separate charger from the car chassis in order to have a functional BMS. But up untill now i had no problems with this setup. It is only now with this IGBT and caps configured for 800VDC i see some EMI shadow.
> 
> A


Welcome to the EMI world


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Actually, it is generally considered poor practice to use pull-downs on logic-level inputs. The threshold is usually about 0.7V for low and 1.5V (or less) for high. Many logic devices and microcontrollers have internal pull-ups which may be selected for each pin, and the Arduino (or the AtMega168) has this feature. If a "1" is written to an in input pin, the pull-up is enabled, and its value according to the data sheet is 20k to 50k. The AtMega168 inputs have thresholds of 2.3 to 2.6V with a 5V supply, so with the standard 10k pull-down and worst case internal 20k pull-up, the voltage would be about 1/3 Vcc or 1.7 volts with the button released. Thus the noise margin is about 2.6-1.7 or less than 1 volt.

There is no capacitor shown on the schematic, so there is a rather high impedance input path with no attenuation of noise, and because of the rats nest of interconnecting wires with signals and high voltage power levels constitutes transmitting and receiving antennas.

A common software method for debouncing and noise rejection of switch contacts is a loop which requires two or more successive logic changes for action to occur, with samples separated by a few mSec. Like this:


```
lastValue[1] = button[1];
int timeout[1] = 5;
while(digitalRead(Button1) <> LastValue[1] && timeout[1]>0) {
  timeout[1]--;
  delay(1); }
if(timeout[1]==0)
  button[1] = digitalRead(Button1);
```
Then proceed to act on the value of button[1]. The reading is only valid and will change after 5 milliseconds and 5 consecutive readings of the new state.

[edit] I just had an experience with a PIC project using PWM where I was seeing random anomalies with current surges, and I discovered that I had some variables that had not been declared "*volatile*". Thus the compiler optimization must have assigned it to a register that may have been changed elsewhere and not maintained as intended. I found that the Arduino supports this qualifier, and the charger code does not contain the "*volatile*" keyword. So this may cause some erratic behavior.
http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/Volatile


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm looking through the code for places where the buttons are defined and read:


```
void hardwareInit()
{
  // digital inputs
  pinMode(pin_pwrCtrlButton, INPUT);
  pinMode(pin_pwrCtrl2Button, INPUT);

....

void loadConfig()
{
    // check if needed to go into config 
    EEPROM_readAnything(0, configuration);
    // reset configuration if the green button is pressed at charger start
    // on first connection, do zero cal of mainsV, as well
    if(configuration.CC<=0 || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button)==1) {
        forceConfig=1; // first time running the charger after assembly

....

    // prep for output voltage zero calibration
    // this will generally NOT work on PFCdirect units as there is always voltage on the output
    // to calibrate at the factory / right after build, power 12V ONLY and follow through calibration
    outV=readV();
    sprintf(str, "Drain %dV, BTN", int(outV));  
    printMsg(str, 0, 0, 0, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00);
    while(!(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton) || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button)));
    outV=readV(); // re-read after discharge

....

        delay(1000); // to avoid reading same button state as in prev step
        while(1) {
            outV=readV();
            if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton) || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button))  break;

....

void startupConfig()
{
    printClrMsg(MSG_THX, 50, 0, 0x3f, 0);
    forceConfig=BtnTimeout(5, 7); // this will return 0 if no button pressed; 1 otherwise; 5 seconds, line #7
    if (forceConfig != 0)
    {
        state = STATE_SETUP_CV;
    }
    else state = STATE_WAIT_TIMEOUT;
}

....

    x=BtnTimeout(10, 3);

    if(x == 1) state = STATE_TOP_MENU; // some button was pressed
    if(x == 0) // nothing pressed
    { 
        state = STATE_CHARGE_START;
    }

....

/* //this used to run the charger given the below conditions but things are being restructured so it has to sit out here for now

  // run charger if: 
  //         (1) charger has NOT been run yet in this cycle, or 
  //         (2) has been run over a week ago
  //         (3) green button is pressed to override
  if(LCD_on==0 || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button)==HIGH || charger_run==0) {
*/

....

    // check if need to stop - RED button pressed? - both in LCD and non-LCD modes
    if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH) 
    {
        state = STATE_CHARGE_FINISH;
        return 0;
    }

....
```
This is the "new" code that is still being modified, and the section that has been commented out may be that which allows the charger to restart after the pauses that have been noted. All the button reads could be replaced by a function that contains debouncing and filtering as suggested above, and this might reduce the instances of pausing and erratic operation.

The BtnTimeout() function is in the Menu.cpp module:


```
byte BtnTimeout(byte n, byte line) {
  while(n > 0) {
    sprintf(str, "%d sec ", n); 
    printMsg(str, 0, 0, line, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);

    for(byte k=0; k<100; k++) {
      if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button) == HIGH) return 1;
      delay(10);
    }
    --n;
  }
  return 0;
```


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> Actually, it is generally considered poor practice to use pull-downs on logic-level inputs.


Dead wrong. It's considered poor practice to leave logic level inputs *floating*; there's nothing wrong with using a pulldown resistor on an input if you want it to default to a logic low.



PStechPaul said:


> Many logic devices and microcontrollers have internal pull-ups which may be selected for each pin, and the Arduino (or the AtMega168) has this feature.


Correct, but then you go on to outline a moronic situation where the internal pullup is enabled while an external pulldown is present, which makes no sense whatsover.

You also fail to note that any inputs with the internal pullup enabled revert to floating during power off, reset and boot-up. In a high noise environment, or for inputs exposed to the outside world, this is a recipe for disaster. Hence the general rule that you should ALWAYS use either a pulldown or a pullup on every logic input.*


* - exceptions are for terminated buses such as RMII (for ethernet) or SPI, etc.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks guys, i will have a long look into programming PICs and AVRs. My BMS runs on PIC but charger runs on AVR/Arduino...

@ PStechPaul: My charger runs normaly for the third charge now. I just added one line of 10ms delay and repeated condition for button press. It works, no more unintentional pauses. I also changed pulldowns to 4K7. Maybe i will also 
add one 104 cap across pulldown resistor just to see if i gain something.

Maybe good is good enough eh? 

Still waiting for spare DCDC and driver chip to boost current to 50A...

A


----------



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> A common software method for debouncing and noise rejection of switch contacts is a loop which requires two or more successive logic changes for action to occur, with samples separated by a few mSec. Like this:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


This is a perfectly valid suggestion. The code actually now has interrupt driven button code such that an interrupt fires as the button is pressed and this sets a flag. This has the advantage of registering the button press no matter what the rest of the code was doing at the time (so long as no ISRs are hogging the CPU). But, it has no debouncing at all. As soon as the button is triggered it sets the flag and that's it. This may or may not be acceptable. I haven't tested thoroughly enough to be sure that it'll work well enough. It would be nice to have some debouncing. But, so far the new version seems to work more reliably than it used to.



> [edit] I just had an experience with a PIC project using PWM where I was seeing random anomalies with current surges, and I discovered that I had some variables that had not been declared "*volatile*". Thus the compiler optimization must have assigned it to a register that may have been changed elsewhere and not maintained as intended. I found that the Arduino supports this qualifier, and the charger code does not contain the "*volatile*" keyword. So this may cause some erratic behavior.
> http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/Volatile


Thanks for the suggestion. You can see that I used volatile in my new code but I hadn't gone back to check the existing code. You're absolutely right, the code as it stands has a lot of variables that are set within an ISR but yet aren't specified as volatile. That's not going to continue. (EDIT) I just committed to github so that all variables that appear to require volatile are now set that way.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> I have probably veered away from my original intentions by looking at what I think is a better way to achieve start-up current limiting, but I still think it is useful. I would probably implement it with a MOSFET, rather than an IGBT, and thus be able to use a much higher frequency. I found a 600V 37A 100mOhm MOSFET for about $5:
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMshyDBzk1/Wi5QPiGYOoYcONj6yeBEOwHA=
> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/FCH104N60F-254653.pdf
> 
> ...


Paul, I put your idea in practice using a smaller scale setup as I'm building a buck converter to feed the accessories that needs current limiting.

I replaced the circuit on post #2696 with a simple UC3842. The current on the primary has to be limited because at the output of the converter current would increase beyond limits of the freewheeling diode.

I tested at 150V, using an UC3842 current control IC. With a 200mA primary current I got 6 Amps secondary current during a short circuit condition. The IC increases the duty cycle as the current goes down and while doing so the output voltage goes up, so quite a nice solution with only a few components. I used a small inductor I got from a PFC stage at 17KHz.

Do let me know if you want some more details.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi Guys - 

Just checking in. Good discussion. A bit less abusive so people can actually focus on doing something useful instead of talking at each other, displaying the overwhelming enormity of their knowledge on the subject ;-)

Sorry I was a bit silent for last few weeks as Collin worked on the software for the Due (awesome job on that, Collin! Your Due board is on its way now). 

I have been busy with many things, the most relevant to this thread being deployment of 5 25kW CHAdeMO chargers and 5 30kW bi-directional converters based on this architecture. 

We have also updated our charger enclosures to provide landing points for 60A relays to use for input and output precharge, expanded the footprint a bit to allow for better inductor airflow, and a few other things. 

[this is a repeat of some earlier post but I thought would be useful to do this again] we have implemented a few suggestions from the last few pages of this forum - most notably gate resistors / zeners / caps to reduce likelihood of dangerous gate voltages at start-up. Precharge relays can now be used to vastly reduce inrush currents and virtually eliminate the problem of parasitic start-up turn-ons. 

On QC-25 units (25kW single-stage), we have added ability for bidirectional control, over-voltage protections in boost mode, automatic serial control of the power direction, etc. The latest quick-start docs for these are https://docs.google.com/a/emotorwer...W2SHqop4QknphUMKS01k0NjaB67oY3zeXBlXH8tM/edit - you can follow links to CHAdeMO controller datasheet and specs for our revised serial protocol. 

Once the Due code is ready, we will start integrating CHAdeMO code into the main charger, thereby achieving our goal of a 25kW (50kW peak) CHAdeMO charging in a 1,000 in^3 volume, at <$4k end user price including all the bits and pieces (cable, plug, etc). 

We would love to get help from this community - as long as you guys keep your EQ up (google it ;-). Particularly, we could really use local EE-cred'ed testers. Let me know.

Thanks,
Val


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I agree that much more can be accomplished by keeping emotional responses to a minimum and instead focus on the goals that have been established. Within that framework, however, there are many variations, and that is the hallmark of creativity. I found a test for EQ, and I scored above average:

http://psychology.about.com/library/quiz/bl_eq_quiz.htm

Valery, I suggest that a new thread should be started for the new designs, especially if they will be radically different and not applicable to the original DIY charger up to V14 or V15. This thread would be best reserved for continued support of those who have this model.

I would be happy to provide a design review of your new charger(s) and DC-DC converters. I recognize that not all of my suggestions may meet with approval or be implemented, but I want to provide constructive criticism based on my own experience and knowledge.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

PStechPaul said:


> I agree that much more can be accomplished by keeping emotional responses to a minimum and instead focus on the goals that have been established. Within that framework, however, there are many variations, and that is the hallmark of creativity. I found a test for EQ, and I scored above average:.


Apparently everyone does. Perhaps I should have studied.


----------



## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

Question regarding fw v.13.

We have noticed that with the v.13 fw that the input voltage is not sensing correctly. When we input 120v the charger reads 290v and the mV=4.1. When we input 240v the charger reads 144v and the mV=2.08.

line 1400-1401:

#ifdef PC817
if(peakV>3.5) return 240;
return 120;
#endif

should this line be modified to be if(peakV<3.5) return 240;?

also, is it ok to load up the v.14 fw if we are running all v.14 boards except the driver board is v.13?

thanks
Brucifer


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Brucifer said:


> Question regarding fw v.13.
> 
> We have noticed that with the v.13 fw that the input voltage is not sensing correctly. When we input 120v the charger reads 290v and the mV=4.1. When we input 240v the charger reads 144v and the mV=2.08.
> 
> ...


Surprised no one has answered this. I'll try to shed some light...
I've attached the portions of the EMW schematics of the relevant circuitry in V12-13 and V14. 
View attachment PC817, compare V12_13, V14.pdf


They are similar in that current to the PC817 is limited by a 200k resistor. There are different divider ratios in the two versions, don't know why, but I don't think that effects the current through the PC817 input much. So I would expect the forward current of the PC817 varies between around 3/4 mA and 1 3/4 mA for 120VAC and 240VAC applied to the bridge rectifier. The c-e current for the PC817 increases with forward current over this range so the collector voltage, the "mV" signal, should be pulled down as you observe, lower for 240VAC. This agrees with Valery's note below in the V12-13 fw that it "inverts the waveform".

The section of fw you posted for V14 is quite different than my V11 which subtracts the "mV" reading from 5V (I assume for the above reason):

_#ifdef PC817 
peakV_new=5-analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // with PC817 sensing, opto inverts the wave_

Don't know why this was changed either. Mine works fine, though I modified the fw after fitting a simple regression equation for PC817 voltage values as a function of actual measured VAC to the charger:

_float pwr;_
_ int J1772_dur;_
_ mainsV=(read_mV())*(1.1412+0.009137*Ta); //modified to correct for temperature variation of PC817 output_
_ outV=readV();_

_and here:_

_mainsV=(read_mV())*(1.1412+0.009137*Ta); // only infrequently as the averaging interval is pretty long (10mS), corrected for temperature variation of PC817_

The "modified..." comments are mine. Charger display values have been within 3% of actual VAC for 18F < ambient T < 98F over the past year.
Looks to me like your fw should be different, but I am not familiar with what else is going on other than the few lines you posted, so I would wait for input from Valery. If anything I've said is incorrect I'm sure others here will jump all over it to correct me. You might also do a search (on posts, not threads) since this PC817 has been discussed several times here. It's one of Paul's favorite designs. :^))


----------



## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi tomofreno,
Thanks for the reply, we are actually running charger_2013_07_31_V12 fw.


This is the entire section in question:

//============================ voltage readout functions =====================
// read output voltage
float readV() {
return (sampleRead(pin_bV)-V_o_bV)*divider_k_bV; // isolation opamp
}

// read mains voltage. this function will take ~15mS to complete!
float read_mV() {
// find peak voltage
float peakV=0, peakV_new=0;

// need to sample at least 10ms - half-period of 50Hz input
// analogRead takes 0.1uS itself
// to be sure we cover 10mS, add a delay of 70uS to each loop
for(int i=0; i<100; i++) {
#ifdef PC817 
peakV_new=5-analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // with PC817 sensing, opto inverts the wave
// R4 on the driver board is selected so that the 5V means ~the same input voltage as 5V in ISO124 sensing
#else 
peakV_new=analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // 10-bit ADC
#endif
if(peakV_new>peakV) peakV=peakV_new;
delayMicroseconds(70);
}
#ifdef PC817
if(peakV>3.5) return 240;
return 120;
#endif

#ifdef DCinput
return (peakV-V_o_mV0)*divider_k_mV; // peak = RMS for DC
#else 
return (peakV-V_o_mV0)*divider_k_mV/1.414*1.2; // RMS + adjustment for RC filter on the control board
#endif
}
//============================ end voltage readout functions =====================

Not really sure where to go from here, we are just learning all this.
The charger is working properly except for the 120/240v operation. We can't up the current on the 240v operation as it thinks it's 120v. So we can only give it 15A.
Thanks for any help
Brucifer


----------



## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok, we figured it out!
the PC817 switch was not uncommented!
now we have it working.
Thanks
Brucifer


----------



## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

We tested using a juicebox for input and input 240v 50A output 50A to a 48 cell pack. We've discovered that 2 caps (C6, C9) got very hot (C6 was the hottest around 80C) and have melted their tops. We stopped charging and now are curious what would be causing this? The polarity is good on all caps.
Any suggestions?
thanks
Brucifer


----------



## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

We discovered a tiny short between the input inductor wire and the body of cap C9! A tiny pin sized hole in the insulation and the edge of the cable.
Hopefully the caps aren't shot, we are test charging again at 120V.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Brucifer said:


> Ok, we figured it out!
> the PC817 switch was not uncommented!
> now we have it working.
> Thanks
> Brucifer


Ah, good. Was going to say, your fw looks ok to me.


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## weareborg (Dec 29, 2014)

can some one please supply a link to download the 
library uLCD_144.h and libary TimerOne.h Thanks


----------



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

weareborg said:


> can some one please supply a link to download the
> library uLCD_144.h and libary TimerOne.h Thanks


Generally it is included with the source code when you download the source.

Otherwise, you could always grab those files out of my repo:
https://github.com/collin80/VMCharger


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## weareborg (Dec 29, 2014)

Help please 

ok we brought a VMcharger_V9 kit 9 months ago from EMotorWerks SmartCharge still cant get it to work.

When it arrived it came with a V11.1 control board, not a V9 the software link that was given was also for V9.
The uLCD14 display that came with the kit does not have the extra chip on the
back like the ones I see on the internet, also the ones on the internet with  the extra chip on the back are called uLCD_144

There seams to be meany versions of the (EEPROM_VMcharger.h) and the (charger_ISO.pde) files, also there is a lot
of firmware versions for the uLCD_144 also multiple verisions of the Arduino software used to compile the code.
There is always issues with the Timer1.h file and the uLCD_144 when compiling, even the Timer1.h has multiple versions,
can someone please please give me the correct info needed to get it to work.
Thanks


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have been trying to evaluate the various versions of the EMW PCBs and firmware with the intention of adding tweaks or possibly a new set of boards to make it reliable and easier to program. At this point I have one complete charger and several PC boards, and I was able to compile the latest released firmware using the latest Arduino software. IMHO, it will be best to make hardware changes on the boards such that they all match the latest schematics, and so that the latest firmware will work for all versions (with perhaps a few conditional parameters).

It seems that Valery is overwhelmed with the newest version of the charger as well as other projects such as the JuiceBox, and has been unable to provide assistance or repair non-working chargers people have sent him. I am willing to try to troubleshoot and repair non-working chargers, at minimal cost, so if you can send me your charger, I will see what I can do. I can't make any guarantees or time estimates, and I realize that it may cost as much as $100 for shipping each way, but perhaps I can determine what is wrong with your charger and I might be able to get it working. Please PM me for shipping information and more details.

[edit] I found some information on the uLCD14, and the main difference appears to be the 2x5 connector that replaces the old 9 pin SIP:
http://www.soselectronic.com/?str=1...ent-displays-from-4d-systems-already-in-stock

There are some differences between the Ver11.1 PCB you have and the Ver12 I found. Here is V12:










Best thing may be to compare your board to the schematic (although there are many confusing errors and omissions), and try to make it as close as possible. You should be able to apply 12VDC to the control board and power up the display with the Arduino. I had to make a few changes to the source files to get it to compile with the latest Arduino software. Look back a few pages to see what I did.

Mostly I think I changed the VMcharger.h file as follows:


```
#include <EEPROM.h>
#if ARDUINO >= 100
 #include "Arduino.h"
 #include "Print.h"
#else
 #include "WProgram.h"
#endif
```


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi all...

Can anyone help? Valery?

I have built another charger per V12 version. It is small 3kW single phase unit up to 30A current. Now i havent had problems untill the test phase.

I connected to 12V and ran it - no problem, charger reaches 95% duty and remains there since there is no power.
Then i connected power and ran 1A to 136V battery. Huh here i saw exactly the same as before. Duty kept rising to 95% but no amps went trough. 
1. i checked driver and DCDC - both fine
2. i checked pwm from arduino and driver - fine
3. i checked V, mV sensing - fine
4. i changed LM211 comparator.... same story
5. i changed IGBT just in case but result is the same...

Huh what could have happened? I get good +15V/-15V pwm out of the driver, igbt should drive current. What could it be?

tnx

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Hi all...
> 
> Can anyone help? Valery?
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - 

You are doing everything right... 

Can you post a part number for the IGBT you are using? Can you post a photo of your setup (I want to see how IGBTs are connected to the driver and the rest of circuit if possible)

So there is no voltage on the output at all while duty is 95%? What voltage is on the input?

Thanks,
Val


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

weareborg said:


> Help please
> 
> ok we brought a VMcharger_V9 kit 9 months ago from EMotorWerks SmartCharge still cant get it to work.
> 
> ...


weareborg - please email me valery at emotorwerks dot com. 

we have not been shipping v9 for over 2 years I think...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> Hi Arber -
> 
> You are doing everything right...
> 
> ...


Yes, i knew i am doing right, i just didnt see a possible cause for error...

Well i figured out ...it was output diode. It looked ok, but one leg was broken and only electrical check showed it.
I used one LED on 12V and connected it from + trough diode and LED towards -. 

My charger is a small 3kw unit. I made PCB myself and used components available here. Its nonPFC. I used your driver and control board. It cah charge up to 25A - 30A. Inductor is T300-26 micrometals core and 4mm2 wire.... I measured 600uH! It works good.
Other limits are the same as EMW charger. Pictures are attached. I will attach more recent photos later...

EDIT: As i promised here are fotos of my small charger
https://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/01022015903.jpg
https://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/01022015904.jpg
https://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/01022015909.jpg
https://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/01022015911.jpg


tnx

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I have another problem...My original charger works on 3 phase. But no matter what i do i cant get it to show input voltage correctly. It shows 51V input even though there is at least 580VDC! 

- I use driver board V12 with one ISO124 amp to sense input voltage. 
- i use 4M resistors to sense input and i defined 4000 in the code

I also made PSU from one 24VAC transformer and LM7824 regulator. I added one Zener and 2K2 resistor to make +15V/-8V divider to power my driver. I got sick of replacing DCDC bricks .

Before it worked very good, but i had to replace sense DCDC, ISO124 and 7805/7905 regulators.
Can you tell me what could this be and how can i correct it?

Also this ISO124 is quite expensive...
Can i ask how did you adapt your V13 driver board to sense higher input voltage? Did you have to add resistor value or similar? 
I would like to use one V13 driver board with opto to differ between 580VDC and 310VDC - three and single phase.

And one more...
Can i use V12 charger with V14 code? or is there some limitation?

tnx 

Arber


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

arber333 said:


> Hi Valery
> 
> I have another problem...My original charger works on 3 phase. But no matter what i do i cant get it to show input voltage correctly. It shows 51V input even though there is at least 580VDC!
> 
> ...


If cost is an issue and you're good with coding you might replace the voltage sense with a PCF8591. This is an I2C ADC with 8 bit resolution, so 3V/bit if we assume inputs up to 750V.

http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/PCF8591.pdf

You will also need a SI8600/8602 I2C digital isolator to provide isolation

http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si860x.pdf


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well no i am not good at code  sadly... But it seems i answer my own questions much. When i bought ISO124P i also got one ISO122JP by mistake. Today i just put it in... It seems it has 10x less gain than 124. When i put 40000 for the resistor value it showed 515V on input, DOH! Now i just have to tell it how much current to pass with single phase input.

Valery my question about your 3phase sense board still applies. Can you tell me what do you use to sense HV versus LV?

Also can i just replace my V12 code with V14? Or is it a nono?

A


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

arber333 said:


> Well no i am not good at code  sadly... But it seems i answer my own questions much. When i bought ISO124P i also got one ISO122JP by mistake. Today i just put it in... It seems it has 10x less gain than 124. When i put 40000 for the resistor value it showed 515V on input, DOH! Now i just have to tell it how much current to pass with single phase input.
> 
> Valery my question about your 3phase sense board still applies. Can you tell me what do you use to sense HV versus LV?
> 
> ...


Hi Arber - 

Yes, you can replace V12 code with V14 BUT you need to make a couple of adjustments to the control board first.

Specifically, you need to change a few caps. Basic explanation is that V14 implements proper PID control that depends on fast hardware loop reactions. The large cap values on V12 boards prevent PID code from doing its job. 

Must change: C40 on the control board needs to be below 1uF - we use 0.33uF (V12 board reference ID used)

Good to change: C14 on the driver board - to 0.1uF 

As always, after any major changes, start slow and confirm operation on low input voltages before going to high-voltage. 

Thanks, 
V


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks Val

So if i make those changes, i can use V13 driver PCB (with opto input sensing) with V14 directly on 3phase? Or should i change some resistor divider also? I am asking because i am not sure 200K 1W will hold against 600VDC. Should i add another in series? 

I will change those values and install V14 software for sure!

A


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

arber333 said:


> ...can use V13 driver PCB (with opto input sensing) with V14 directly on 3phase? Or should i change some resistor divider also? I am asking because i am not sure 200K 1W will hold against 600VDC...


Ohm's law says you can't use a single 200k/1W resistor to "hold against" 600VDC as it will have to dissipate 1.8W (V²/R); a good design will not subject a resistor to more than half its rated wattage. Another consideration is that the resistance of most resistors will vary with voltage, and good engineering practice is to limit the total drop across any one resistor to 150-200V. Ie - you need 3 or 4 resistors in series here.

Finally, you cannot perform power factor correction of a full-wave rectified 3ph. AC supply with a single PFC converter; you pretty much need a separate rectifier and PFC stage for each phase, only then can you sum them together on the DC side.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That's probably R53 on the driver board, and it drives the PC817 opto-isolator which is (incorrectly and problematically) used for input voltage measurement. Most resistors are rated for 300V maximum, so it would be prudent to use at least two in series. The total resistance should be no more than 200k, as this gives only 3 mA into the LED of the PC817 at 600V and only 750 uA at 150V. The graph for CTR vs I(in) only goes as low as 1 mA, at which point it drops to 80% typical. Thus the 2.4k resistor (R4) on the output will see only about 500 uA at which point it will drop only 1.2V from the 5V supply, or 3.8V. But the CTR can vary from 50% to 600%, and also changes considerably with temperature. I would hope that the newest version of the board and the firmware would correct this problem. At least have a trimpot on the driver board for R4 so it can be adjusted for the correct value at a given input voltage.

[edit] Also note that the V14 driver board differs considerably from the V13 board. The PC817 input (pin1) connects directly to the (un-named but J1 on schematic) header pin 4, and the signal from the collector goes to another (un-named but J3 on schematic) header pin 1 labeled "mv". D2 (which seems to have inadequate spacing for 600V) is on the V14 power PCB, connected to what is now called IN "+" on the PCB. R11, R12, and R15 are now labeled R6, R7, and R16 on the power PCB. C32 is now C20 and remains 1 uF. C26 (10uF) is now C5 (0.1 uF) on the power board, and a resistor R5 (27k) has been added to the VinSense circuit across the input of the PC817. This creates a voltage divider of 227/27 or 8.4/1 so a 150V input will be 17.8V if it were not for the LED in the PC817. It does not seem to accomplish anything useful. 

The new V14 power board uses 2200 uF 200V capacitors in series to obtain 1100 uF 400V. As I suggested previously, it would be advisable to tie all the center taps together, and to add two power resistors that would act as bleeders and voltage balancers. A diode to the output (battery pack) shown as optional in the V13 design would be good to avoid the pack being drained by these resistors.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi fellows!

I must report my success here. Like i said earlier i had lots of problems with driver PCB burnout. DCDC and HCPL driver in particular. I had to change driver DCDC AND IGBT like four, yes 4 times! All this on 3phase tryouts...

Finally i lost my nerves and went to a friend of mine who is working maintenance on 3phase UPS stations in 10kW - 100kW range. 
Well he gave me some pointers and schematics and i tried this. 
It worked THE FIRST TIME! Well now i know. Lets share some pointers:

1. Datasheet says IGBT needs some Rg resistor to open/close. Well this is optimal and usually this high strung IGBT fails due to ringing voltage.
They use at least 2x higher Rg than in datasheet. So if specified 10R they use 22R. Now heres the trick: in paralel with 22R they wire one ultrafast diode backwards and another 22R resistor that forms divider to 10R which is what driver sees when closing IGBT. So Transistor closes much faster than it opens. Works! 


2. Regarding power supply i took one 230VAC/24VAC transformer, LM7824 regulator and some caps and made stable 24VDC output. Then i took one 15V 0,5W Zener and 2K2 resistor and put them from - towards +24VDC. I took center tap for gnd and both sides formed +15V and -8V (or the rest whatever it is). Trick is IGBT doesnt really need -15V to close. -5V is enough! There it is one indestructible DCDC supply! I dare electrons to try and fry this transformer . LINK!
On the side note i bought 24V ACDC 500mA PSU on ebay and will try it out soon. Suppose it has short circuit and reverse voltage protection etc... Good stuff, get some!

3. I had to make some eccentric stands for IGBT since contacts were larger than my PCB. The point was to torque them and then put the PCB over them mark holes untorque and then drill and tap them. When i retorqued them i had to be carefull to use the same torque so the holes aligned and presto... GE contacts i just connected with fastons and 2cm interlaced wire. I will have to make some modified power PCBs in oder to use larger IGBTs though!

4. Then i had to lower frequency so my IGBT could survive torment. 3ph UPS works at 8kHz iIGBTs, nductors and all. Me i think i like 10Khz whine better... 
By now charger is stable at 40A 150VDC output. If you are building a charger try theese mods you wont be sorry. 

A


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## sirwattsalot (Aug 27, 2012)

I like the concept of Open Source. I have several circuit designs that I want to present in the same fashion. I need some advice as how to proceed. I have a Performance Enhancer to reduce voltage sag and improve range and acceleration. I have a Battery discharge rate timer and fuel gauge sending unit and I am working on a PWM power board for ceramic heating elements. All created at considerable expense to myself. Certainly some copyright or provisional patent is needed simply to establish the fact that I created these designs and to prevent someone from claiming exclusive rights to them. Together we can make the impossible happen. I am often told what I can't do with my own EV. I am determined to do what can't be done. So anything that makes EV's faster, more practical to drive, or just more fun, is what I am interested in.

As for your charger, I have a question about fast charging batteries. Say for example we have 36 LifePO4 cells in the EV (120 vdc) and the normal way to charge them is all at once in series, what if we use 4 chargers and each one charges 9 cells at 30vdc until full. Yes, I know- it would be a huge drain of power from the ac source but, if we had two 220vac sources (J1772) to plug into, an nine hour charge would be reduced to 2 1/4 hours. Do you think a 440v charger my be in our future? And then, why not a 880v charger to quick charge the next generation of graphene batteries.


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## sirwattsalot (Aug 27, 2012)

I am no expert but, could you use IGTB bricks that are chassis mounted. They spare the PCB of high current. The PCB can handle all of the low power switching to drive the bricks?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sirwattsalot said:


> I like the concept of Open Source. I have several circuit designs that I want to present in the same fashion. I need some advice as how to proceed. I have a Performance Enhancer to reduce voltage sag and improve range and acceleration. I have a Battery discharge rate timer and fuel gauge sending unit and I am working on a PWM power board for ceramic heating elements. All created at considerable expense to myself. Certainly some copyright or provisional patent is needed simply to establish the fact that I created these designs and to prevent someone from claiming exclusive rights to them. Together we can make the impossible happen. I am often told what I can't do with my own EV. I am determined to do what can't be done. So anything that makes EV's faster, more practical to drive, or just more fun, is what I am interested in.
> 
> As for your charger, I have a question about fast charging batteries. Say for example we have 36 LifePO4 cells in the EV (120 vdc) and the normal way to charge them is all at once in series, what if we use 4 chargers and each one charges 9 cells at 30vdc until full. Yes, I know- it would be a huge drain of power from the ac source but, if we had two 220vac sources (J1772) to plug into, an nine hour charge would be reduced to 2 1/4 hours. Do you think a 440v charger my be in our future? And then, why not a 880v charger to quick charge the next generation of graphene batteries.


Huh i actually tought of that. I dont think it would be practical. Firs of all there would be cable spagetti and second you are not certain all cells would get equal treatment. Why not just wire 4 chargers in paralel for 4x more current. I know a guy who has 6x 5A 96V cheap chineese chargers that in the end charge his pack at 30A. Since they are isolated he can distribute load on two/three phases... I digress... 
Some time ago i even consider buying 4x of 5A 72V chargers to form 2S2P for 144V 10A charging. That would be my backup charger for $150! It all comes to isolation. Since i dont have it i cant play combinations, i have to use 3phase 600V charger straight!

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Since we are in a charger debate, let me give some news of my pack. 
Sinopoly 200Ah LiFe are going strong after 3yrs and 50K kilometers. I must admit they are a lot softer than at the begginning, but they can still give me 600A boost to drive to 110km/h on highway ramp every day. 

Recently i built another pack with 36x KOKAM SLPB 125255255 85Ah cells that have cca 90Ah full and connect it in paralel with my 42x 200Ah LiFe cells.
Read about my hybrid pack here: 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=558338#post558338


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Returning to the EMW charger, I found that some of the DC-DC converters used in the design are not really rated for continuous use on 480V or 600V lines. Even though they may specify 1000 or even 2500 volts, their true operating voltage is generally 120 or 240 VRMS. There are special "reinforced" insulation systems that can safely handle the higher mains voltages, but they are not cheap. 

Here is one with 4000V isolation but rated only for 300 VAC working voltage:
https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/mshu100.pdf

Here are some that have 4800 VRMS (6000 V peak) insulation good for up to 1000 V working voltage:
http://assets.tracopower.com/THB3/documents/01_Datasheet (engl.).pdf

I would not trust an ordinary switching PSU for use as a gate voltage supply for a 600V bus. Their isolation is designed only for standard 120/240 VAC lines, and the cheaper ones may be marginal at that. There are some reviews of imported and counterfeit phone chargers that showed how the insulation can break down, and when opened up they revealed poorly made PCBs with inadequate clearance, crappy solder joints, and other problems.

Using a good 50/60 Hz transformer power supply is probably a good way to go, but be sure to get one with separate side-by side windings for maximum isolation and safety. Also you should ground the core and frame so a fault cannot pass from the secondary to the primary. Do not use a layer wound transformer for the gate drive power supply.

You can get dual bobbins and ferrite E-cores and you can wind your own high isolation transformers easily and cheaply enough. Then you can use a simple switching circuit to produce the gate supply voltage. You can drive the primary from the 12 VDC of the charger and the output can be made for 24 VDC which can be divided for +15/-9. It does not need to be well regulated since the turns ratio will determine the voltage from the regulated primary.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

Hello all! Long time reader, first time poster here.. 

Before I started my EV build I began acquiring the large (read expensive) components that I would use in the build. The EMW 10kw charger kit was one of the components I purchased well before my build (March 2013). 

I'm about 75% through my build now, and pulled out the charger kit to start putting it together. When I first received the box from EMW, I opened it up, noted there were a lot of parts in there, then put it away for another day. 

Now that opened it up to actually build it, there are no instructions in the box, and no link to web based instructions. I can't find any information this version of the charger on EMW's web site as the boards don't match the pictures even going back to the time when I bought it. 

I've emailed EMW with questions several times over the last few days but have received no response. Sooo, I thought I'd come on this thread and ask if you guys can help me identify what I've got, and where I might find info on building it???

(UPDATE: I found a link to the BOM for v9.2 in post 843 here on the forum from a few weeks before I bought my kit. It shows my non-PFC version only uses 1 of the toroid inductors.. so that part of the mystery seems to be solved!)


So, I bought the 10kw non-pfc air-cooled kit on March 2013. Here's a pic of the boards and components laid out: 










Here's the case that I bought with it:










And just because I posted pics of everything else, here's the heat-sink 










At this point any information would be helpful, as I've got basically nothing. The boards are different enough from the current rev of the charger that the instructions (especially on how the boards interconnect) aren't really applicable to my kit.

Thanks in advance!!!


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Maybe this would help? (PM sent FYI)

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/

I think this is the software for working with the schematic/pcb files:
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm


----------



## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

dcb said:


> Maybe this would help? (PM sent FYI)
> 
> http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/
> 
> ...


Wow, I knew I'd get some good info on this forum! Thanks, those files look like just the info I needed.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

I guess a question for valerun, I noted at least one bugfix on crackerjackz board, how current are the v9.x files? Were they updated, or an errata file compiled? I know a lot of folks (myself included) buy a kit and don't get to it for a good while (as other aspects of the project get procured).


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

So, it appears I have a V9.X non PFC kit. My 'driver board' says V9.5.

I only received 5 PCB's though... Here's a pic showing the one that I don't have highlighted. Is it possible that this PCB was eliminated from V9.4 to V9.5?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

How does one find the links to previous builds? The only documentation that seems to be available on the emotorwerks.com site is the latest version 14 and it is a Google Docs page. It would sure be helpful to have a page with links to the various versions.

However, IMHO it would be best to modify the boards according to the latest version if possible, and also implement the "bug fixes" and design improvements that have been identified by various people. Ideally, there should also be one version of the firmware, possibly with conditional compiles to accommodate major differences such as PFC and non-PFC.

I have some documentation on the charger (mostly V12) as I am trying to come up with a universal retrofit package that will use most of the major components and have a single, simple design with schematics and PCBs that actually match and have proper parts identification and a more modular approach that will make building, testing, and troubleshooting much easier.


----------



## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

Base on the schematics, I'm guessing that 5th board that did not come with my kit is part of the "PFC BUCK POWER" circuit...(?)


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> How does one find the links to previous builds?


That's really a valerun question, but if for me, I just took an educated guess at the URL.



Baratong said:


> Base on the schematics, I'm guessing that 5th board that did not come with my kit is part of the "PFC BUCK POWER" circuit...(?)


It might be for the boost inductor, non pfc is just a capacitor bank (or a voltage doubler if on 120v) connected to a buck converter. The pfc version has an additional inductor to boost the input voltage (to 400V?) to get more power out of the wall. PFC forces the input current to look like a sine wave in sync with the input voltage, common practice in even mildly high power devices these days.

edit, pfc is kinda critical if you are wanting to charge on any old 15 amp 120v outlet at more than ~800watts, or if you have 40 amp 240v circuit you might only get ~5kw useable out of it before popping the breakers. at least that is my understanding thus far.


----------



## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

dcb said:


> It might be for the boost inductor, non pfc is just a capacitor bank (or a voltage doubler if on 120v) connected to a buck converter. The pfc version has an additional inductor to boost the input voltage (to 400V?) to get more power out of the wall. PFC forces the input current to look like a sine wave in sync with the input voltage, common practice in even mildly high power devices these days.


I'll have to take some time tomorrow and go through the schematic. I was concerned because the PCB file I opened was the 10kw NON-PFC .pcb file. But it shows a 6th circuit board that did not come with my kit... hmmmm.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Baratong said:


> I'll have to take some time tomorrow and go through the schematic. I was concerned because the PCB file I opened was the 10kw NON-PFC .pcb file. But it shows a 6th circuit board that did not come with my kit... hmmmm.


That is the bridge board. Here you mount 2x 20A diode bridges and connect your cap bank as 110/220V divider. 
However i dont want to use such flimsy parts. I use 100A 3phase bridge anyway and if you only intend to use single phase you only connect 2 inputs - Ph and N. Bridge will do the rest...

In case you need a divider network, follow the schematic. You can make it using wires and one power relay, or use different plugs for 230VAC and 110VAC. That way no relay is needed.

I use 3ph and single ph over same plug. Its just charger has to see lower voltage so it can reduce power for single phase - so i dont blow fuses.

A


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

arber333 said:


> That is the bridge board. Here you mount 2x 20A diode bridges and connect your cap bank as 110/220V divider.
> 
> ...
> 
> In case you need a divider network, follow the schematic. You can make it using wires and one power relay, or use different plugs for 230VAC and 110VAC. That way no relay is needed.


Thanks, I see that board is not necessary for my build. I've got the Voltage Doubler V1 which requires 2 separate cords for either 240v or 120v. 

So, in spite of no support from the vendor, it looks like I got the answers from the community! Thanks guys.. I may run into more questions before this is done.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

So I started populating the 'Control Board' today. First thing I noticed is the control board PCB supplied for V9 does not match the control board I received from EMW. Couple of things such as dual row LCD connector on mine, single on V9 PCB file... V9 PCB file shows a second DB9 to the left of the Arduino, and various components are in different locations.. R40 as an example. 

So opening up the V9 schematics file, it doesn't match either of the boards. The schematic has no part number designators, plenty of open circuits, missing components that are on the pcb... It's obvious that the netlist wasn't generated from this schematic.

So to my question... has anybody had to deal with this issue? I'm to the point now where I'm going through the schematics, following the traces on my actual board (as the pcb file doesn't match it), and trying to figure out where the parts go.

Pic of my control board here:


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Really, you have V9 control board...

This side you have posted is obviously ground plane. So dont put elements here. Resistors should go from the other side. 
I also see that this board was made for a different pro mini chip, since there are two pairs of analog input pins 90deg inside arduino contact row. V12 uses chip with both analog pairs inline along left side contact row.

Also if you check LCD dual row there should be only one row connected to +5V and arduino. Other row is left floating. If you want to connect LCD trough cable i used 4pair UTP cat5e cable. 4 wires for uLCD and 4 wires for buttons.

A


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

Hey, thanks for the info! Yes, now that I look at it you are right about the LCD connector only using one row.. the other row only has the ground pin connected, the others are floating.

I'll take your word for it being V9, but it differs from both the PCB layout and the pictures that EMW provides for their V9 product...

Per EMW's pictures, the components do go on the ground-plane (top) side.. Electrically resistors could go on either side without a problem but it's pretty standard on through-hole technology to keep the components all on the same side so it can be wave soldered. The pin-outs don't work for the Arduino unless it's on the ground plane side:









And LCD only works if it's on the opposite side as in the picture:


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It looks like you have a much different control board (I see now that the second images are from the build notes). Your first image shows a tan colored board without solder mask, and the pushbuttons and DB9 connectors are in different locations. I have two control boards, one labeled "EMW Universal Control Board V12", and another that is quite different but there is a connector with a pin labeled "R5/out relay V12". I doubt you will find any complete and accurate match between boards, schematics, build notes, and "bug fixes". This is why I would suggest trying to make the boards match the latest V12-13-14 design as closely as possible. If I were Valery, I would send the latest PCBs to customers at no charge, or perhaps "at cost", which should be no more than about $20 for a set of boards. I'm not sure how deeply I want to get involved in this design, as it appears to me that the only way to fix it is a complete make-over of hardware and software, re-using only the major (expensive) components. 

If I were sure that the latest version actually works properly, and the schematic and PCB match, I would not bother trying to make a new set of boards, but last time I checked, there were still many discrepancies, and the design still uses the problematic optoisolator for input voltage sensing. Here is a marked-up image of problems I found on the V14 PCB:










And V13:









Here are the schematics for the V14 control and driver boards:


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## rtz (Jul 3, 2013)

Just wanted to post this link in case anyone wants to get in on the action: http://www.pad2pad.com/


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Their discount price of about $30 for three small boards applies only when you use their software. For Gerbers created with professional PCB software like PADS, it is more like $30 per board for three 2"x2" PCBs. No thanks.

http://www.pad2pad.com/pricing-order.htm

I often use www.pcbfabexpress.com for prototypes, typically about $150 for three 4"x6" boards, and for quantities I use www.pcbcart,com, in China, where a similar board may cost $300 for 20 pieces, and about $5 each for repeat orders with no change in tooling.


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## rtz (Jul 3, 2013)

How about this place? http://www.sunstone.com/


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

I like SunStone's software, but unless they've recently restructured their pricing, it is on the high side.

The most economical (proto) board house I've used is Advanced Circuits (4pcb.com). Their 33each option gets you 4 2layer boards up to 60sq inches each for $33 each. While they have their own software, they also accept gerbers (which works for me because I use KiCAD for my non-work related boards and PADS for my professional work). I've used their 44each for 4-layer boards too.

I used to use PCB Unlimited for cutting my SM stencils, but recently started cutting my own with a ULS laser cutter on Kapton sheets 

(edit: I meant 'prototype' board house here... production quantities a different story)


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

Paul,
Thanks for posting the schematics/boards. 

With my V9 kit, it's a mess! Just on the control board, the board I have doesn't match the build docs, the PCB, or the schematic. The PCB file doesn't match board pictures, and the schematic doesn't match any of the above! If this thing works it'll be a wonder!

If I weren't in a hurry I'd design my own control board. I could pretty easily adapt the base design of the control board I've got in my custom BMS controller http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446241&postcount=21 Firmware is my specialty so it is very tempting.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

just fyi, I don't even know if that is the right url for your board. There is no list of subdirectories for the different versions because the parent directory returns the home page, and I haven't seen any pointers for 9.5 (or whatever you have there). You might want to send emw an email to confirm the location of the directions for your board as there isn't much response here at the moment.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Baratong, those are some well-made boards and a nicely finished product. Perhaps we can collaborate on a new charger design or at least a set of upgrade boards for the EMW charger, using as many of the major parts as possible. I have a preliminary design in PADS but it is incomplete:










I can send you the PADS files if you would like to use them as a starting point. That might lessen the time it might take for you to do your design. It may be better to design it using the Arduino and LCD graphics display used by EMW, and match the form factor so they would be an easy retrofit.

I also have four blank control boards I got from Valery and they might be the same as those shown in your build images (perhaps V12). If nothing else, they are better quality PCBs with solder mask, and the documentation might be more nearly correct. 










I also have a partially completed driver board that still has footprints for two ISO124s, and it has two DC-DC converters VESD2-S12-D15-SIP. And I have two different complete control boards, one of which is labeled V12, and the other appears to be what is shown in your build image from the documentation as shown below. 










I will need at least one of these to do testing and evaluation of the design, but if any of these will help you, send me a PM and I can send them to you. The blank PCB will probably go for a first class stamp, and even the populated boards will go for negligible postage. I might also have some use for the older boards you have, if only because they might be easier to hack without solder mask.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

dcb said:


> just fyi, I don't even know if that is the right url for your board. There is no list of subdirectories for the different versions because the parent directory returns the home page, and I haven't seen any pointers for 9.5 (or whatever you have there). You might want to send emw an email to confirm the location of the directions for your board as there isn't much response here at the moment.


I've sent EMW a number of emails on the state of this kit, requested build instructions or docs, forwarded them my invoice so they could cross-reference to the version shipped... Unfortunately I haven't received any kind of a response at all.


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*"Lost AC" message - Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design*

Hello guys,

I have been running this charger (rev.10) successfully since September 2013 on 240V.

I plugged it in this afternoon, it went through the initial start up screens, then it switched to charging showing 0.7A, then within 2 secs it stopped and showed message "Lost AC", then 0Ah.

Retried a couple of times, with same result, only the current changed to 0.6A.

Tried on different circuit breaker with same result.

Any idea what could be the problem, before I uninstall it from the car?

Thanks in advance.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I can't find any documentation on the EMW website for version 10. There is a link for V9: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/ , but the same URL with V10 does not exist. There is a valid link for V12: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12/ , but public permissions are not set, so it can't be accessed. If you have the documentation, or know where to access it, that might help. If you still have a display, I think that means that there is AC on the 12V power supply. It might be a failure of the line voltage sensing circuit, which could be an isolation amplifier or a PC817 optoisolator. Hopefully you can get some help from Valery. 

If you do remove it from the vehicle (which might be necessary), take some detailed photos and we might be able to walk you through some troubleshooting. You will need a multimeter, and perhaps other equipment. Good luck.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Figured out a hack for the public directories, just V9 and V12P seem available:
https://www.google.com/search?q="Index+of"+site%3Aemotorwerks.com&

http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I found a post with some images of Ver 9.5 boards:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210p114.html




























Note that there are three different build, and two different version boards. Hard to say which, if any, are correct. And no idea if any of these are V10. What a mess!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I can't find any documentation on the EMW website for version 10. There is a link for V9: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/ , but the same URL with V10 does not exist. There is a valid link for V12: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12/ , but public permissions are not set, so it can't be accessed. If you have the documentation, or know where to access it, that might help. If you still have a display, I think that means that there is AC on the 12V power supply. It might be a failure of the line voltage sensing circuit, which could be an isolation amplifier or a PC817 optoisolator. Hopefully you can get some help from Valery.
> 
> If you do remove it from the vehicle (which might be necessary), take some detailed photos and we might be able to walk you through some troubleshooting. You will need a multimeter, and perhaps other equipment. Good luck.


The right link to V12 is http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/

V9 is http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V9/ 

I do not recall us ever having V10 version.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

*Re: "Lost AC" message - Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design*



george7g said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have been running this charger (rev.10) successfully since September 2013 on 240V.
> 
> ...


Hi George - 

Lost AC means there is no input voltage sensed by the system (or the sensed value is very low). Most likely a loose connection on one of the headers or broken solder joint. Could be broken Vbop connection between the power board and the wire, loose connector from power to driver board, or loose connector from driver board to control board. 

I'm afraid you will need to open it and trace the voltage from input rectifier to the driver board and then to the primary side of the opto-isolator chip and then to the other side of that chip (not that primary and secondary sides have different grounds), and from the secondary to arduino pin input. At some point, you will see non-zero voltage in one step and zero in another step...

Let us know how it goes.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I found a post with some images of Ver 9.5 boards:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210p114.html
> 
> 
> ...


where did you get these photos, Paul? The two bottom boards are incomplete in different ways. The bottom board is so incomplete that it will not even work. The top board is I believe 3 years old...

Anyway, the current version of the board set is V14, with all docs at https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE&usp=sharing, as usual.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Baratong said:


> So I started populating the 'Control Board' today. First thing I noticed is the control board PCB supplied for V9 does not match the control board I received from EMW. Couple of things such as dual row LCD connector on mine, single on V9 PCB file... V9 PCB file shows a second DB9 to the left of the Arduino, and various components are in different locations.. R40 as an example.
> 
> So opening up the V9 schematics file, it doesn't match either of the boards. The schematic has no part number designators, plenty of open circuits, missing components that are on the pcb... It's obvious that the netlist wasn't generated from this schematic.
> 
> ...


Baratong - this looks like a kit from 3-4 years ago? Since it would be rather challenging for us to support a build from the version this old, and given it's a no-silkscreen board, it would probably be easier if we just send you a V14 control board. Control boards are largely universal and will work with any driver / power board combos.

I would be happy to send V14 power and driver boards, as well, but they would require different part sets...

Let me know. Best over email as I am no longer checking this forum every day after some fun discussions here last year.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

valerun said:


> Baratong - this looks like a kit from 3-4 years ago? Since it would be rather challenging for us to support a build from the version this old, and given it's a no-silkscreen board, it would probably be easier if we just send you a V14 control board. Control boards are largely universal and will work with any driver / power board combos.
> 
> I would be happy to send V14 power and driver boards, as well, but they would require different part sets...
> 
> Let me know. Best over email as I am no longer checking this forum every day after some fun discussions here last year.


Thanks for the note. I sent you several emails over the past couple of weeks, but had no reply. I just re-sent. I'm not sure what version kit your company sent me, but there were/are no instructions, or links on how to get information. 

Because I'm on a tight schedule to get my build going, and with no responses from you, I was forced to go purchase a commercially available charger. But if you will send me some usable boards, then perhaps its not a total loss.

Please reply to my email so we can figure out a way forward.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I would think that there would be at least some of each version number. If they were never released they must be just internal prototypes. It is very difficult if not impossible to help customers with various versions of the charger when the documentation apparently does not exist or is hidden on the website with no links except what has been revealed in scattered posts throughout this thread. Moreover, some of the PCBs are not labeled with any identification as to version or date, and many of the builds seem to be different with details hidden in documentation that may no longer even exist in original form.

It seems like there have been many changes and "bug fixes" done "on the fly" and new versions made without proper testing and documentation. As I have shown, there are many unlabeled and missing parts on schematics and layouts, and this seems to persist up to V12/13, and it is unclear what the changes were for each subsequent version. There is also the debacle of having various firmware revisions. Those are among the reasons I refer to this as "a mess".

The three boards I show were in a post from one or two years ago (which I referenced), showing differences in builds which were supposedly done according to the documentation as it was at that time. It's nice that you have a link to the latest and greatest version V14, but that does nothing to help those with earlier builds, and makes it very difficult for me to provide any effective help for your customers which you have been unable or unwilling to provide. You have a complete charger from one customer and you have not responded to his requests for you to repair it or return it. Others have been very frustrated with your service and response to repeated emails. That is no way to run a business, IMHO.

Yes, you sent me some obsolete blank and/or hacked boards, which had a few parts on them, but none of the "special" parts I might need to put together a working limited power charger. I purchased some of them at my own expense, but there was still not enough to build anything useful. The boards were from various different versions and some were not included at all. Here is what you sent:










There is no identification on any of the boards as to what version they might be, but the drivers seem to be possibly V9, because they have the two ISO124s, although the one on the left was apparently an experiment to replace it with the PC917 and A7520 as shown for V12-13. The display boards might be V12, except that I have a complete board from Crackerjackz that is labeled V12, but is completely different, with two relays, only one DB9 connector, and the counterbored holes to correct the "bug" with the ground plane shorts. See what I mean about a "mess"?

The V14 boards seem to have better correlation between schematics and layouts, but some things have moved from one board to another, so the only way to use them is to have both. It seems that the best way to address problems in the field is to make available these new boards so all chargers can be upgraded to the latest version. But there are still some basic design issues IMHO, and perhaps V15 might fix them, but so far I have not found the schematics or layouts.

Valery, I am trying to help, and it seems the least you could do is supply a complete set of V12 or V14 boards and perhaps one or two of the older, smaller inductors. Crackerjackz sent me a complete control board with display and a programmed Arduino, and someone else sent me a complete charger. So I might be able to help your customers who have had problems. But my opinion, and that of several others, is that the charger will need pretty much a complete make-over with new boards and firmware, and hopefully re-use the large expensive components and enclosure.


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## Ai! (May 9, 2014)

valerun said:


> Best over email as I am no longer checking this forum every day after some fun discussions here last year.


Are they (discussions) true? Or part of them?
I'm asking because I'm planning to buy 2 or more of them(chargers) and now I'm confused.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Do not buy these chargers! You will get no support and Valery will ignore you. He has had my charger for 6 months now, and is ignoring me. I am out about $2000.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

There has been some recent private discussion about collaborating on a retrofit package for existing EMW chargers, and a new (probably modular) design. The modular design would most likely consist of a single control board and up to eight 2 kW modules that can be paralleled to get up to 16 kW. This will make it easier and cheaper to develop a 2 kW device (120V 20A), and offer field-installable upgrades. It also provides redundancy, so if a module fails, you just temporarily lose 2 kW until the board can be repaired or replaced.

Looking at the V14 design, I see only marginal improvement. But my greatest concern would be the inconsistent and inadequate support and communication offered by Valery. The retrofits are probably at least 4 months from development, testing, and shipping, and the new design might be ready by this summer. The more interest and commitment I get from those who would purchase such items, the more enthusiastic I may be to accelerate the engineering effort. Please send me a PM so we can discuss future plans privately. I have started a separate thread for this development, and this thread should remain for support of the existing EMW chargers.


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Re: "Lost AC" message - Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design*

PROBLEM RESOLVED!

Hello guys,

just wanted to update you on my problem. I opened the charger last night and immediately spotted "desoldered", loose connection on one of the thick copper wires connecting the diode bridge with the main board.

I cleaned the contact pad and wire, added flux and lot of solder. The charger works again now as it was last 16 months.

Apparently, when I was building it year and half ago, I did not properly solder this connection and due to cold solder joint it was heating itself up until it got unsoldered and mechanically loose.

I ought to say that the charger is running flawlessly since mid September 2013 until now, when I discovered this fluke which was obviously my fault. Now it is working fine again.

Thanks a lot for all the comments and suggestions.

Sincerely, George




george7g said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have been running this charger (rev.10) successfully since September 2013 on 240V.
> 
> ...


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

winzeracer said:


> Do not buy these chargers! You will get no support and Valery will ignore you. He has had my charger for 6 months now, and is ignoring me. I am out about $2000.


I am sorry Brock - I admit we are really slow with repairs. That's of course not an excuse for keeping you waiting for 3.5 months (since Oct 22 as I see in my email box tracking the unit receipt). 

Info for rest: this was a partially assembled kit purchase. After we shipped it, at the final assembly stage, there was some damage due to potentially incorrect connection between the boards and the kit was sent back to us for diagnostics & repair. That's where we dropped the ball a bit... 

I will look at your unit this weekend. 

Val.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> There has been some recent private discussion about collaborating on a retrofit package for existing EMW chargers, and a new (probably modular) design. The modular design would most likely consist of a single control board and up to eight 2 kW modules that can be paralleled to get up to 16 kW. This will make it easier and cheaper to develop a 2 kW device (120V 20A), and offer field-installable upgrades. It also provides redundancy, so if a module fails, you just temporarily lose 2 kW until the board can be repaired or replaced.
> 
> Looking at the V14 design, I see only marginal improvement. But my greatest concern would be the inconsistent and inadequate support and communication offered by Valery. The retrofits are probably at least 4 months from development, testing, and shipping, and the new design might be ready by this summer. The more interest and commitment I get from those who would purchase such items, the more enthusiastic I may be to accelerate the engineering effort. Please send me a PM so we can discuss future plans privately. I have started a separate thread for this development, and this thread should remain for support of the existing EMW chargers.


This is great, Paul! I am hoping that you and your collaborators will have the energy and dedication to follow through on this. The amount of investment that it takes to document all the design and build procedures is not to be underestimated. The amount of documentation grows 5x when you try to enable other people to build per your design. Good luck. 

In the meantime, we have discontinued kit products. Kits will only be sold to existing customers who successfully assembled their chargers already. We have a number of customers who have assembled multiple units for themselves and their customers / friends and we will be limiting future kit shipments to that segment. 

This lesson is very similar to the lesson we have received in our JuiceBox product. Selling kits for the first 9 months of product availability has created an enormous load on our tech support as too many people without sufficient skills or knowledge attempted assembly and blamed us for their non-working systems. After limiting new kit sales in a way similar to the above, we have no technical issues from over 1,500 EVSE units sold since then. 

Val.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

A big part of the kit failure was lack of documentation and constant revisioning. Web pages can handle hyper level modifications since they update seamlessly, hardware needs to be pretty well sorted out and documented before being handed off.

Anyone who can solder should be able to succeed with a proven design and good instructions. Not saying everyone qualifies, just that the level of difficulty in this kit was historically bad. Otherwise it is a glorified connect the dots/paint by numbers.

The feature chasing is a big issue, and using arduino in the marketing is indicitive of that mentality, when %99.999 of folks just want a charger that works reliably, with a light to tell them when it is having a problem.

BTW, my juicebox kit started failing, and I'm not short on skills, and it was largely pre-assembled. So there are quality issues you are going to have to face. You can't put it all on the people who paid you for a kit.


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

dcb said:


> A big part of the kit failure was lack of documentation and constant revisioning. Web pages can handle hyper level modifications since they update seamlessly, hardware needs to be pretty well sorted out and documented before being handed off.
> 
> Anyone who can solder should be able to succeed with a proven design and good instructions. Not saying everyone qualifies, just that the level of difficulty in this kit was historically bad. Otherwise it is a glorified connect the dots/paint by numbers.
> 
> ...


of course I am not saying that all kit issues are due to skills. In JuiceBox case, only 80-90% are. 10-20% are still ours. In your specific case, you should get in touch with Dorian by emailing [email protected] and he will try to help you out. 

Val


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

With such poor correlation between the available documentation of schematics, circuit boards, build notes, "bug fixes", and Arduino software, with so many "revisions", it is amazing that anyone was able to build the kits successfully. And the most evident change from the 9.x versions to 11-12-13 seems to have been the replacement of the ISO124 for the highly problematic PC817 opto-isolator. I understand that the ISO124 is about $15 while the PC817 is only 50 cents, but the same thing could be done with a differential amplifier, and if you really think you need isolation, you can get an AMC1100 for as little as $4 in quantity.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMtyhvbnOfCRF61vo0acNs%2bL1cmpG4yE6c0=

I only got involved with this charger because I saw so many people having problems with it and the support from EMW was erratic and often ineffective. Then as I dug deeper and learned more about the design, I saw many aspects of the design that I simply disagreed with, but more disturbing have been what appear to be safety issues and errors that still seem to persist even into V14 and probably the so far unrevealed V15.

The PFC circuit uses "a few inches" of copper wire instead of an actual current sensing shunt resistor, so that part of the circuit does not work as intended.

The JuiceBox does not adhere to the SAE J1772 standards for handshaking, and the charger is also non-compliant.

I had hoped to be able to put together a couple of PC boards that would replace those presently in these chargers, but there are issues on other boards as well, and I don't want to put a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. I have to agree with others who regard this as a "train wreck", and since I will need some sort of charger for my own purposes for small off-road (tractor) EVs with 24 and 48 volt SLA and FLA battery packs, so I might as well proceed with what I consider a better design, from the ground up.


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## george7g (Mar 8, 2013)

*Reality check. - Re: 10kW / 60A DIY charger open source design*

Hello guys,

I haven't been to this forum for quite a while until recently.

I am appalled that Valery is getting so much bad rap from many - utterly undeservingly in my opinion.

*This kit is NOT for someone who wants to SAVE money!* Never was. 

It is for someone who wishes to experiment, to learn something new, who is not afraid of number of hiccups and serious issues to resolve, for someone who wishes to be part of unofficial R&D.

As a reward, you get something you have built yourself and which works reasonably well.

Yes, Valery is guilty of very poor revision control and documentation, also of being too ambitious trying to add too many features at the same time or too rapidly.

Having said that, *he always goes more than extra mile to help resolve the issues anyone has*, to his own detriment. In reality, this keeps him from the business side of the equation. I fully understand that. He being tinkerer, as many of us are, we have the constant urge making things better and better. We hate to admit that there are necessary things such as design freeze, rigorous documentation, etc.
____________________________________________

In my case, I am not even EE. I am ME with very basic electronics skills and I was able to build the superb charger in ten days, which has been serving me for last 16 months multiple times a day! 

Yes, during the build, I managed to fry few components where Valery helped me promptly to find out what I screwed up. And yes, last week I discovered I managed to do cold solder joint between main board and rectifier bridge. All these were my faults.

I made my own enclosure, I also figured out alternative (passive) way to deal with J1772 pilot circuit issue as well as analog choke fans temp control (snap thermostats). 

Few months ago, I also bought the basic Juice Box kit (PCB+PSU). Yes, I had issues, but guess what: it was not Juice Box problem. It was my other car's mass production charger problem and charging handle issue, Juice Box works perfectly as well.
____________________________________________

*You guys need to be little more realists and much more considerate.* Valery never offered this kit as a mainstream certified charger - there are plenty of them on the market. This was supposed to be a learning experience with all the associated risks and pitfalls.

For those who are afraid or not up to the task, you should have bought fully assembled and tested charger for more $$ from EMW. Most of these issues people are reporting are self-inflicted, due to ignorance or inflated egos.

Be grateful that Valery and his team provided you with the opportunity, you made a choice. You were warned BEFORE you bought the kit that this is not for the faint of heart....

*Do not blame Valery for your ignorance! * 

George's $0.02.


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

Look, Vale, I've got a lot of respect for your learning ability, watching you sorting out inductors was very instructive and you've learned a lot from the community in the process. You are eager to make a business out of it, and have taken an amazing chunk out of the pricing for chademo products as well (to the elation of many a leaf owner certainly). But I'm a diy kit kinda guy, and really appreciate people producing things in kit form, as well for something that isn't UL listed (and couldn't be at this revision rate anyway), a kit makes a lot of sense, eliminates liability and reduces costs further. So don't poo poo kits when you have a hand in their demise, as a business. And nobody buys a kit thinking their time is worthless, to be a gunea pig. This all started as a diy $200 charger. Cost is a big factor in doing things yourself.

So to whom it may concern, don't buy a kit if you can't solder and follow instructions. 

Don't sell a kit if you can't write good instructions and support each version with proper documentation (and limit the rate of change if you are encouraging user contributions (i.e. arduino), else most of the users hardware is made obsolete shortly after shipping). If you are gonna mark it up substantially, you have to do your part upfront. We all know about quantity discounts.

As a business owner, I get it, but as a diy enthusiast, I get the other side of it also. The current cost of components means there are no shortage of folks wanting to capitalize on it, but on a diy forum, it seems like the modus operandi is to share knowledge, and enable each other to do more.


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## Baratong (Nov 29, 2012)

> Don't sell a kit if you can't write good instructions and support each version with proper documentation (and limit the rate of change if you are encouraging user contributions (i.e. arduino), else most of the users hardware is made obsolete shortly after shipping).


The only problems I had/have with the kit are documentation and versioning related. There were no docs at all with the kit I received, and no links on the website to find any. When with the help of the community some was found, it didn't match the physical boards.

I suppose as a 35+ year experienced EE design engineer, this kind of thing makes me a little crazy. If I did something else for a living it might not bother me so much. But while managing engineering teams of 50+ people, I always had to be a real hard-ass on proper documentation and enforcing controlled versioning practice.

Managing an 'open source' project for fun and profit is not as easy as it may look, this I understand. "Herding cats" is the analogy I've always used. But there are lots of good online tools that help manage the process -- most of them free. My current favorite is Atlassian which I use extensively for my current development projects.

Bottom line is with the state of the documentation, its not possible to expect anyone no matter how experienced to build this kit without needing some questions answered -- thus creating a support burden for EMW.

BTW- Valery has stepped up and is helping with docs and has offered to provide current boards -- which is above and beyond what I expected. While the kit started out rocky, I'm quite pleased with his current support.

I was one of the Kickstarter supporters for the Juice Box and am looking to build that kit here in a couple of weeks....


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

valerun said:


> In your specific case, you should get in touch with Dorian by emailing [email protected] and he will try to help you out.
> 
> Val


Sent him an email, I wonder if this is related (gotta look at all the components for temperature range). I think this is on a lot of emw chargers, though I don't know how timing critical they are (unless it is trying to receive 1khz accurately), worth looking into. my juicebox is less than a year old.

"while the ceramic resonator on the Pro Mini is about 100 times more sensitive to temperature."

http://jorisvr.nl/arduino_frequency.html


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello All, I am back on the forum and mad enough to attempt a second build of the EMW charger.

I have been using a *NON-PFC, Single phase, UK 220V AC* version of this charger based on the V9.5 driver and V10 control boards for over a year now without any major hitches other than ones that were caused by my own stupidity.

I am about to attempt a build of the EMW charger based on a power board version unknown (but AFAIK they are all the same) a V9.5 driver board and a V12 control board (the one with the drilled out ground plane!)

PSTechPaul, I see you have referenced my V9.5 driver board in your post 2801 and to partially answer your question


PStechPaul said:


> Note that there are three different build, and two different version boards. Hard to say which, if any, are correct. And no idea if any of these are V10. What a mess!


 I can confirm that the bottom image on your post 2801 is my V9.5 driver board (taken from my post 1111), It is however missing the support components for the A7520, Valery answered my calls for help in post 1115



valerun said:


> Yes, slightly different board. We talk about this on our page at http://74.208.162.121/cgi-bin/VMchar...l?cc=gfw7iuef7, in the PCB layout section. The link to the PCB file for this version is there, as well: http://www.emotorwerks.com/VMcharger...erPCB_V9.4.pcb. Please refer to that for population of that section of the board.


The first link he has referenced here now seems to be broken but the second still works. (I probably have the missing file from that broken link on my home PC so I could find it if needed) 

I can honestly say that following Valery's advice I did manage to get my charger "Charging" (Working is maybe a little strong as I still have several issues with the charger that I have not addressed due to the need to run my EV everyday and not getting a lot of charger downtime where I might have the time to tinker)

Here are the issues I still have to address with this version (V9.5 Driver/V10 Control/V? Power) of the charger (power boards are all the same version AFIAK)

1) Pre-charge i have no form of pre-charge and rely on the inrush resistors taking the whack out of power on, I think that precharge circuits have already been discussed at length on this thread but as yet I have not manged to investigate never mind implement one.

2) I am using this charger to charge a 10KWH LIPO traction pack (not LIFEPO) and as this chargers firmware was written for LIFEPO, The CV cut off (in the firmware I am using, V12 AFAIK) does not allow for greater than 3.99v CV cut off, I want to set 4.2v cut off. TBH I did begin to follow this up with Valery but I never followed through with Valerys last request for more info, I think he wanted a copy of my firmware (does EMW not keep all the different firmware revisions?) so this has not been addressed as yet. To get around this issue I simply lie to the charger about the total number of cells in my TP to compensate for the additional 0.2v per cell which at least allows the charger to work.

3) My charger never finishes charging it simply drops the duty to zero and after around 2 1/2 - hours I revisit and switch off manually, I also corresponded with Valery on this issue which he was going to look at but as with point 2 I have not followed it up as yet.

4) I would like to implement J1772 and bought the relevant (and expensive) cable and socket which are installed in the car but I don't (yet) have any form of EVSE at home I simply have the J1772 lead and plug wired directly to AC mains on a 40 AMP RCD, I use this RCD to switch the charger on (and off until I started catching up on this thread last night) I have just learned as of last night that it is kinder on my RCD to stop the charge first before cutting power, I have not been doing this due to point:-

5) My charger seems to put voltage on my car when plugged in and charging I tried to avoid this by attempting to isolate the charger components from the case (namely the metal heat sink) and although this appeared to do the trick when the charger was sitting outside of the car (i.e. I could touch the metal case without getting a jolt) once the case was bolted to the car the problem returned and the case (and therefore car) now give me a significant belt if I inadvertently touch the car whilst it is charging (not good) I had some correspondence with Arber on this matter as he also had this issue and avoided it by properly isolating the chargers case from the car itself but this would not stop me getting a belt if I opened the boot and touched the metal case of the charger, Again this has not been addressed as yet but is high on my next job list.

Anyway getting back to the V12 build I have a couple of questions.

1) Valery you appear to be offering new V14 boards to customers who have bought from you but have as yet not started their builds (see post 2805) would you be willing to send me a free upgrade to V14 from V12? (control board only)

2) PSTechPaul you appear to be interested in building the V12 board to help Crackerjack with his non functioning kit, As I will most likely be building this V12 (well I hope it is V12 as that is what the silkscreen says! not to be trusted by the look of it from last nights catching up on this thread!) And I will be posting my progress as the build progresses as before so you might be interested in collaborating (on this forum) on the V12 build. My V12? control board has the relays at the top (not sure if I even need these yet, or what they are for) and it also has the copper flood issue drill outs but I read last night that this (drill out) fix was also (possibly mistakenly) applied to later boards where this issue had already been fixed? so I guess I will need to do some checking to identify exactly what board revision this is.

As for the rest of the PCB's I have for this charger build the Power board seems to be identical as the last one I had, It has no revision number (do any of the Power boards?) so this should be fairly straight forward to assemble, AFAIK the Non PFC need two 2 watt resistors and the PFC only have the one, And the driver board for the Non PFC kits needs the cranked male spades to be on the screen printed side of the board unlike the PFC kits, my photo of the power board in post is all present and correct bar two female spade connectors one of which goes on the far left in the 2 empty holes in the bottom left corner of this photo, the other of which goes in the next 2 holes to the right of this first one (In my photo of the power board however you will see that I inadvertently soldered up these holes when I was soldering in the IBGT female spade receivers on the other side of the power board, I had to use solder wick to clean these 2 holes out and fit this female spade so that I could insert the driver board) these spades (orientation and placement) were very poorly documented at the time and I had to work from photos of other "Working" Non PFC builds (namely Jehu's)

And as for the control board (v12? maybe), I think this is where most of my problems on this build are going to come from, I do remember from my previous build (around the time Crakerjack started his build and I was finishing mine) that EMW could no longer source the version of the LCD module they used for the previous versions forcing them to rework their PCB's a little to hastily IMHO, the V12 boards had new firmware to support this new LCD module version, and possibly new libraries as well, and that was back in late 2013 so I am not even sure I can source a compatible LCD module for this V12 control board.

Oh and I should also mention that this time I only bought the PCB's from Valery as the shipping and duties to the UK from USA are extortionate to it is far cheaper to source the parts from Digikey direct here in the UK, plus a few of the components and mechanical's can be source locally in any part of the world.

And to finish this LONG post, you seem to be gearing up for your own version of this charger addressing all of the "Issues" as you see them, I was very interested to see your simulations of a few example ideas on better designs, how about you start your own new thread on this site, I for one would be an avid follower especially if you are going to "Properly" open source it with PCB Layouts, complete instructions/version control and firmware to match, even if you are not interested in actually producing anything your ideas/designs etc would be greatfully received by people such as myself who are perfectly able to produce our own PCB's given a good set of gerber files and schematics.

Post soon 

Graham (AKA Sexstrap, short for Sussex Bootstrap)


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have a new thread on my charger design concept:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ev-charger-design-modular-130626.html

It may be a while before I can come up with a design and PCBs that are ready to distribute, but it is helpful to read posts such as yours that identify some of the issues. Although I have found some problems with the EMW design(s), most of them are not serious, and the fact that many people have built the chargers and have used them successfully attest to the fact that they do work.

Your experience with getting a shock from the vehicle chassis is a serious issue, but I think it can be solved by adding an earth ground, and/or a GFCI circuit. The voltage on the chassis may be just from capacitance from parts of the charger to its enclosure, but there is always the possibility of leakage or a short which could present a lethal amount of current. It may be more likely to occur with 220 VAC, especially if both legs are floating, or if neutral and the high leg are reversed.

The design I propose will have isolation, but will still have an earth ground. I would suggest that anyone with this charger should ground the vehicle chassis.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

sexstrap; said:


> 1) Pre-charge i have no form of pre-charge and rely on the inrush resistors taking the whack out of power on, I think that precharge circuits have already been discussed at length on this thread but as yet I have not manged to investigate never mind implement one.


Well that is easy, you have D4 and D5 transistor outputs and if connected to 12V arduino relay module you can drive input contactor as well as output contactor. Also on newer V14 PCBs there is space for two relays that have exactly this purpose. Then you can setup precharge easy: I precharge from the AC side since it is easier to get contactor. Put one 10W 470R resistor across the input contactor poles like here: http://cr4.globalspec.com/PostImages/201101/VFD_diagram_8149454B-C374-8AEC-29C95AC3EEE0AA04.GIF
The difference is i use three 470R resistor across 3pole contactor on AC side. That way resistors and contactor are rated for 230VAC not 600VDC!



sexstrap; said:


> 2) I am using this charger to charge a 10KWH LIPO traction pack (not LIFEPO) and as this chargers firmware was written for LIFEPO, The CV cut off (in the firmware I am using, V12 AFAIK) does not allow for greater than 3.99v CV cut off, I want to set 4.2v cut off. TBH I did begin to follow this up with Valery but I never followed through with Valerys last request for more info, I think he wanted a copy of my firmware (does EMW not keep all the different firmware revisions?) so this has not been addressed as yet. To get around this issue I simply lie to the charger about the total number of cells in my TP to compensate for the additional 0.2v per cell which at least allows the charger to work.


Well let me show you the way... 
I figured out the firmware setting to go over the 3.99V in setup. It goes like this:

// wrap at 3 (for 100s) or at 9 (for 10s and 1s) 
if(x == 0 && digit[x] > 4) digit[x] = 0; // from original 3 , i change to 4 - so you can select 415 for Lipo cell
if(digit[x] > 9) digit[x] = 0;

Also be warned! LiPo cells dont like to be charged with full CC untill the end. My friend learned the lesson the hard way when complete LiPo pack went to 4.5V per cell on normal CCCV charging. BMS couldnt help even though it did its job. Of course he had setup CC 20A the whole time... Cells are now on 1/2 capacity and quite a bit bloated.
Also i found that LiPos Ri is very small when in the 3,7V zone. While at 3,95V or above Ri rises and i guess this is reason for difference from LiFe.
Solution? You have to set charger to reduce current to less than 1/10C when cells reach 4V per cell. That way BMS can do its job and charger can be stopped in time. Also i will use one EV200 Kilovac contactor to switch charger off even in case IGBT would fail closed. 
You can find all data and code in post #1718. Also on my blog here: https://mazdamx3ev.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/reduciranje-polnilca/



sexstrap; said:


> 3) My charger never finishes charging it simply drops the duty to zero and after around 2 1/2 - hours I revisit and switch off manually, I also corresponded with Valery on this issue which he was going to look at but as with point 2 I have not followed it up as yet.


I had the same issue. I used V11 code and when i changed to V12, when at CV it started to pause and resume to CC. I was using driver board with one ISO124 amp. Then i changed to V13 driver with opto and charger stopped after CC, but it never entered CV. So i just used my reduction loop to finish charge.



sexstrap; said:


> 4) I would like to implement J1772 and bought the relevant (and expensive) cable and socket which are installed in the car but I don't (yet) have any form of EVSE at home I simply have the J1772 lead and plug wired directly to AC mains on a 40 AMP RCD, I use this RCD to switch the charger on (and off until I started catching up on this thread last night) I have just learned as of last night that it is kinder on my RCD to stop the charge first before cutting power, I have not been doing this due to point:-


That is easy, just use the schematic for J1772 handle circuit. Of course for that to work you have to have AC input contactor and precharge present. 
https://mazdamx3ev.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/unnamed.jpg



sexstrap; said:


> 5) My charger seems to put voltage on my car when plugged in and charging I tried to avoid this by attempting to isolate the charger components from the case (namely the metal heat sink) and although this appeared to do the trick when the charger was sitting outside of the car (i.e. I could touch the metal case without getting a jolt) once the case was bolted to the car the problem returned and the case (and therefore car) now give me a significant belt if I inadvertently touch the car whilst it is charging (not good) I had some correspondence with Arber on this matter as he also had this issue and avoided it by properly isolating the chargers case from the car itself but this would not stop me getting a belt if I opened the boot and touched the metal case of the charger, Again this has not been addressed as yet but is high on my next job list.


Well that cant be helped. Charger is not isolated. I succesfully separated charger case from the chassis so my BMS comms could work propperly but i still got jolted if i touched the charger case and chassis at the same time. There is AC component that propagates from the charger. It is cca 60VAC and there is no real amps there so no immediate danger. It is not pleasant though. 

I think both LCDs can be used as they are. You only have to select propper switch in code. I am using V12 code and really i have V11 control and driver PCBs. I have succesfully built several nonPFC units V12 PCBs using new uLCDs. The difference is they are much more sluggish than first builds. 

Also i succesfully made arrangements in code to further decouple buttons as they were picking up EMI.

OH did i say i run my charger from full 3phase 400VAC and it charges at 147VDC 40A. It runs at 12kHz but i changed inductor to 6kW Ecore from one large UPS. It works. 

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> I have a new thread on my charger design concept:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ev-charger-design-modular-130626.html
> 
> It may be a while before I can come up with a design and PCBs that are ready to distribute, but it is helpful to read posts such as yours that identify some of the issues. Although I have found some problems with the EMW design(s), most of them are not serious, and the fact that many people have built the chargers and have used them successfully attest to the fact that they do work.
> ...


I tried to use earth GND to chassis and it screwed with my BMS comms. Since our earth GND and N line are the same potential i guess chassis GND fell to some -18V in respect to vehicle +12V and so BMS PCB elcaps got drained, comms fell and charge was terminated... I decoupled earth and put charger on sealant blocks (rubber blocks with bolts). That solved the whole thing. 
Also i noticed i got no shock from touching charger when i was charging from 3phase - 400VAC - go figure...
In the end i put a lid over my charger so none could touch it while charging and that solved the whole affair.

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I am just starting to examine the complete charger I got from John a good while ago, and I found that there is 500 pF to GND from the inputs, 900 pF to GND from the outputs, and 4.2 nF from input to output. That is about 600k at 60 Hz so the current is limited to 380 uA. But that is with the charger OFF, and the input rectifier bridge is not forward biased at the signal level of the LCR meter.

When I applied power to the 12 VDC by means of the switching supply, the display lit up and showed the initial screen for the LCD144, but the buttons do nothing and the black button just turns the display off and on. Obviously I have much more to do. I will say that the display is rather small and difficult to read, and it is not protected as it is mounted. 

I will need to take the charger apart to some extent to measure voltages and learn more about the details of its construction. It appears to be a bit difficult to work on, and it would be a lot easier if the front panel were removable so it could fold down and expose the control and driver PCBs.

BTW, the reason there was no shock from the three phase source may be that the vector sum of all voltages of a balanced source is zero.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Shouldnt matter, since i IGBT should be isolated from heatsink shouldnt it? But we still get some AC component there... Do you think it is induced or capacitive? I was wondering what, when i got zapped because it was just like static discharge it just didnt go away. And if i grounded it my BMSs comms went wild since BMS master uses chassis GND. 

I measured 45VAC sometimes and 60VAC again... 
I attribute this to 2kW water heater now which was leaking HV towards chassis (trough water) and i am replacing wiring now. Still have work to do, but i hope i can measure and report results soon.


A


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Paul & Arber, all this information is really helpful even if I don't fully understand it all at first glance a little research is all I need to do to put those measures in place.

Paul the new thread looks great I will follow it with interest and it (as well as building the EMW charger's) has sparked a new found interest in software simulation of circuit design, I am a complete novice at the moment but I can read & follow schematics and as I work at a university supporting science and engineering I also have access to Labview and specifically Multisim a circuit simulation package, I never realized just how complicated a circuit you could simulate using these sorts of packages, Wow!

Paul on your previous post 2825 you said



PStechPaul said:


> but the buttons do nothing and the black button just turns the display off and on.


You may find that the two function buttons (not the black one) have been orientated 90 degrees out they only work in one direction, Try removing them and re-orientating, I managed to second guess this before my first assembly again not in the docs AFAIK (well the ones I had anyhow).

Thanks again Arber for your detailed reply 2823 to my post 2821 when I get some time  I will get busy with these mods, I wonder if putting a Faraday cage around the large toroid inductor and earthing it to the AC line would remove the EMF?

I know from EMF issues with the HV cables in EV's (motor and battery) that sleeving the HV cables with a grounded copper braid (grounded to car chassis) can help eliminate EMF could we do the same for the HV wires in the charger to help eliminate this induced voltage?

I also wondered when I was building my first charger if a large mica sheet to separate the IBGT & output diode from the heat sink might help might with this, any thoughts?

(I did not do any of these mods due to my guessing might likely blow something up in the charger or worse)


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

arber333 said:


> ...Well that cant be helped. Charger is not isolated. I succesfully separated charger case from the chassis so my BMS comms could work propperly but i still got jolted if i touched the charger case and chassis at the same time. There is AC component that propagates from the charger. It is cca 60VAC and there is no real amps there so no immediate danger. It is not pleasant though...


I don't get a jolt when I touch my car chassis or the charger enclosure. When I read this my car was charging so I went out and touched both at the same time, no jolt, which I would expect since I have the charger enclosure bolted to chassis with metal bolts through rubber vibration pads. Now if I touch a battery terminal and chassis ground I expect I will get a jolt from the non-isolated AC, same as I did with my Manzanita unisolated charger. Maybe you have a leakage path between battery pack and ground?

Also, since I changed (more than a year ago) the delay between CC and CV to 9 seconds, the charger always does the transition and finishes CV to 0.05C. The charger has been working fine for about 1 1/2 years now, including J1772. I've charged at around 10-12 different public EVSE's now without a problem, and I get about full power from them since I added the lines of firmware to adjust Vin from the PC817 as a function of temperature. I'm using V11 firmware.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> ... Although I have found some problems with the EMW design(s), most of them are not serious, and the fact that many people have built the chargers and have used them successfully attest to the fact that they do work...


 I think most of the problems reported are the result of errors in assembly (such as buttons mounted in the wrong orientation - I made this error on one of them). Once assembled correctly mine has worked trouble-free.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Tom

is your charger a PFC or Non PFC? 110VAC or 220/240VAC?
I am assuming you have a metal case on your charger, is the heat sink electrically connected to it?
Did you electrically isolate the IBGT or output diodes from the heatsink in any way (mica film)?
Are you 3 phase or single phase?

Sorry for the questions just trying to ascertain if your charger is anything like mine or radically different version/type.

TBH if I had known what I know now I would have bought the PFC version more for the better support than anything, that said Val did get me "running".



tomofreno said:


> Maybe you have a leakage path between battery pack and ground?


The AC mains earth wire from my 40A RCD'd J1772 Plug lead is not connected to anything in the charger or it's case it is essentially floating, I was unsure if it would be wise to ground the case in this way as it is (the case) electrically connected to both the car chassis and the Soliton Jr and I did not fancy a meltdown if I inadvertently created a ground loop or something.

I am almost positive that the Traction Pack +ve and -ve are definitely not connected to the car chassis, I was advised that this is potentially very dangerous, as if you are leaning in the car and accidentally touch the positive TP cable ouch, is this what you meant by leak from pack to ground, could this happen is if my HV contactor was leaking current?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

sexstrap said:


> Tom
> 
> is your charger a PFC or Non PFC? 110VAC or 220/240VAC?
> I am assuming you have a metal case on your charger, is the heat sink electrically connected to it?
> ...


It is the PFC version. Yes, support and documentation for it were much better than non-PFC.
I charge at 208VAC and 240VAC depending on which public EVSE. Also 240V/50A VAC at RV parks (did yesterday at 8.5kW). The 120VAC works, but I don't use it. 
I have the EMW metal case, heat sink bolted (electrically connected) to it. 
No isolation of IGBT or output diode, both bolted to heat sink with thermal paste between. I'm using the "better" IGBT they offered in post #823. I think it is this one, but photo shown is incorrect, it is white:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/APTGF165A60D1G/APTGF165A60D1G-ND/1920394



> The AC mains earth wire from my 40A RCD'd J1772 Plug lead is not connected to anything in the charger or it's case it is essentially floating, I was unsure if it would be wise to ground the case in this way as it is (the case) electrically connected to both the car chassis and the Soliton Jr and I did not fancy a meltdown if I inadvertently created a ground loop or something.


 The J1772 ground wire is connected to the Control Board G pin on my charger, on the 7 pin connector beneath the Arduino.



> I am almost positive that the Traction Pack +ve and -ve are definitely not connected to the car chassis, I was advised that this is potentially very dangerous, as if you are leaning in the car and accidentally touch the positive TP cable ouch, is this what you meant by leak from pack to ground, could this happen is if my HV contactor was leaking current?


 I meant any leakage path, could be from pack or anything connected to it. Just measure resistance between pack and chassis. AC can also of course couple to chassis if there is a small reactance (e.g. large capacitance) between pack and chassis.


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## Vtecsauce (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

I purchased Kit about 1 year ago now, its been on the back burner for for a while.. and I'm now looking to finally see this thing work.

I'm having trouble to program the arduino chip and i was wondering if anyone here can assist me through getting this working. I'm no expert when it comes to arduino coding programming but i can understand some of the basics.

Some basic info i know for when programming my charger is it has:

-A7520 Chip on driver board
-Uses Allegro_100U Current Sensor
-My Unit also has PFC

So far i've been able to installed the usb dongle driver and the Arduino alphe 0022 programming software on my pc. Working fine connectivity wise.. no issues here.

I then download the zip file charger_2013_07_31_v12.. unzipped it and opened the charger_2013_07_31_v12.pde file and compiled it and tried to upload it.. It does upload however when i power on the lcd under the usb programmer power i don't have any display.

Can anyone help please?


I also what note .. i have some extra resistors left over in my kit (i have no idea where they go) as well as pictures of my charger build, i still need to refine the wiring a bit more.. however i want to make sure it works first!

thanks
-steve


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## Vtecsauce (Nov 21, 2010)

i just wanted to give a update

i was succesfully able to get the arduino programmed

ive also go through all the testing and have the charger powering on 120vac...

im not able to test a load yet.. for some reason the output measures -42v ?... this is after go through configuring settings including shorting the output..

does anyone know why this is happening?.. any suggestions?

thanks
-steve


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Vtecsauce said:


> i just wanted to give a update
> 
> i was succesfully able to get the arduino programmed
> 
> ...


Hi Steve - please connect 5V of driver board to 5V of the control board. Last pin on 6-pin headers on both boards. Let us know if that helps. 

Val.


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## Vtecsauce (Nov 21, 2010)

Hey Val

thanks, i connected the one wire and it works!.. i cant believe one wire missing and nothing would work lol

its great to see the charger finally working!

i have some questions for you if you dont mind







...

what is the best way to setup a simple precharge? i know 2 current inrush limiters are included in the kit... do they always stay on the ac lines though? do i need another set for the dc side? if im charging a 400v battery how i properly charge without breaking anything?

is it difficult to have the output voltage increased to 425v output?

also is there anyway to program lipo type battery setting in charger? i may plan to buy kia soul ev and it use lipo type battery..

thanks for your help val

oh... one other thing i have couple resistors left over after completing charger build? did i miss something? or are they for other mods?.. ill attach a picture below


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Valery

I returned to the charger now and i would like to ask something about V14 charger...
Why have you put almost all caps to the output side of the charger after inductor? Is there any reason why you have 7000uF on the output? 

I only use 2000uF output caps on V12 charger with 2000uF 900VDC caps wired on input. It is enough for 3phase but single phase works up to 15A output. After that voltage falls off and IGBT suffers...

tnx

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Vtecsauce said:


> Hey Val
> 
> thanks, i connected the one wire and it works!.. i cant believe one wire missing and nothing would work lol
> 
> ...


I dont use inrush PTCs.
I used two relays powered by D4 and D5 as they come on V12 controlPCB. One i use as input contactor trigger and other is output trigger. That way every aspect of I/O is secured...

Precharge i made like this; one 470R 10W resistor is connected across both AC relay contacts. So charger is always under AC voltage, but initially voltage rise is cca 30V/s. This extends life of input caps and prevents fuse dropout on charger connection. 
Charger has two timers one 10s for calibration and second i set for 20s (i have to precharge to 580VDC). When second timer is up, D4 and D5 relays go on but input bank is already at comfortable 500VDC so jump of 80V doesnt cause much amps... 

As for output relay i dont precharge it. I have a diode on + so IGBT is the one that charges the output caps and this is setup in software.

basically my setup is like this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3A-1Nfs_4...yJYldaI5Lw/s1600/Precharging2-noContactor.jpg

http://zeva.com.au/Tech/ContactorJewelry/



A


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## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

Help.
Output measures -23v (Drain -23V) ?... this is after go through configuring settings including shorting the output. 5 V(4.96) connected.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Borokhov said:


> Help.
> Output measures -23v (Drain -23V) ?... this is after go through configuring settings including shorting the output. 5 V(4.96) connected.


Ok, i got this.... Couple of months back there was a shorted cap on my driver board. It was the tantalum cap across 5V/gnd pins of the isolated amp A7510. I noticed it because i powered my driver board with desktop PSU and it read 0,5A draw! I checked isolated DCDCs and i got one LM7805 drawing current. I took op amp out of the socket and measured continuity - bingo! there was a tantalum cap shorted to gnd. Dont remember which number, but check with multimeter...

A


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## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

arber333 said:


> Ok, i got this.... Couple of months back there was a shorted cap on my driver board. It was the tantalum cap across 5V/gnd pins of the isolated amp A7510. I noticed it because i powered my driver board with desktop PSU and it read 0,5A draw! I checked isolated DCDCs and i got one LM7805 drawing current. I took op amp out of the socket and measured continuity - bingo! there was a tantalum cap shorted to gnd. Dont remember which number, but check with multimeter...
> 
> A


changed 7520 and LM7905


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## Borokhov (Nov 13, 2014)

Borokhov said:


> changed 7520 and LM7905


what else to check?


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## araizis (Feb 10, 2014)

For anyone interested, we have succeeded in getting Valery's charger working, ending up with a hybrid V12 (power board and driver board) and V14 control board and arduino with some V14 modifications which are designed to help protect the IGBTs, which are the most sensitive component of the entire kit. The V14 control board seems perfectly compatible with V12 and seems to give a better result. I have attached some photos of the unit including important modifications such as the back to back zeners on the back side of the V12 driver board. We haven't tested for high current resilience yet but we would be more than happy with 30 amps rather than pushing the instrument to the limit at 60 amps. Quite alot of work and effort to get the charger going but worth it for the incredible versatility the instrument allows, no need for factory charging etc, and the instrument is relatively light compared to other models, and of course by assembling it yourself, you learn a bit about how it all works, so that if it breaks down, you can replace a faulty component or at worst the entire module without having to purchase a whole new instrument. Anyway the V14 control board gave us a good result, and is probably the cheapest module of the kit.


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## Vtecsauce (Nov 21, 2010)

bump 


Vtecsauce said:


> Hey Val
> 
> thanks, i connected the one wire and it works!.. i cant believe one wire missing and nothing would work lol
> 
> ...


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Vtecsauce said:


> bump


Technically this should be implemented by your vehicle, rather than the charger. The correct sequence is:


AC mains plugged in
Run vehicle pre-charge and wait for main contactor to close (This will charge the DC-LINK and Charger capacitors)

Wait 1 second

Power the charger


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## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

In the case of a charger, which implements j1772, and is the only thing that is going to touch the wall outlet, I think integrating that functionality in the charger makes a lot of sense. A useful abstractions from the charger is a throttle interlock as long as the cable is plugged in, and any bms inputs, but otherwise offloading the pre-charging of the charger capacitors to the car will lead to spaghetti.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

dcb said:


> In the case of a charger, which implements j1772, and is the only thing that is going to touch the wall outlet, I think integrating that functionality in the charger makes a lot of sense. A useful abstractions from the charger is a throttle interlock as long as the cable is plugged in, and any bms inputs, but otherwise offloading the pre-charging of the charger capacitors to the car will lead to spaghetti.


When the vehicle is first connected to a J1772 there is no power available, only the pilot signal.
Handshaking is ideally performed by the vehicle equipment rather than the charger as it has it's own source of power (ie: can be waked up by an interrupt and return to sleep mode thereafter).

It makes sense to run a few checks and immobilize the vehicle (Throttle override) before asking the EVSE to enable AC power to the charger.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

cts_casemod said:


> It makes sense to run a few checks and immobilize the vehicle (Throttle override) before asking the EVSE to enable AC power to the charger.


"other checks" is the fuzzy part. For my purposes, if I plug it in (to j1772 or with a 14-50) I would expect the charger to notice and start charging as soon as it is ready. Especially if I had the source code and etc. That doesn't mean the bms can't limit/stop current if it senses temperature or other issues. 

I don't fancy charge timers timers and other frills though. Don't need to tweet my charging status, just need it to charge when I plug it in, reliably. But putting initial voltage control of capacitors (that are downstream of a boost converter) under the control of an external circuit doesn't really make much sense.


----------



## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

dcb said:


> "other checks" is the fuzzy part. For my purposes, if I plug it in (to j1772 or with a 14-50) I would expect the charger to notice and start charging as soon as it is ready. Especially if I had the source code and etc. That doesn't mean the bms can't limit/stop current if it senses temperature or other issues.
> 
> I don't fancy charge timers timers and other frills though. Don't need to tweet my charging status, just need it to charge when I plug it in, reliably. But putting initial voltage control of capacitors (that are downstream of a boost converter) under the control of an external circuit doesn't really make much sense.


Oh well, we cant always agree


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

We agree on the throttle interlock though, sure I would have snapped off a few j1772 plugs by now without that.


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## Geofrey (Apr 24, 2014)

Hi,

Sorry if it had already been answered but it is quite hard to find something in so many pages. How can you reset the calibration in the EEPROM ?

I have got a V14 PFC SmartCharger. I did powered up the arduino part of the charger before I got a battery ready for testing. I did the first part of the calibration (short output for zero calibration) but as I got nothing to connect for the next step, I just powered off the charger when it asked me to connect a battery. Now when I try to do the calibration, the charger tells me there is 507V on the output when there is actually 0V, and no longer ask me to connect the battery.

I get something like 0.5V at the "V" and 5V at the "mV" pin of the voltage sensing harness when the output is 0V, and 0.9V at the "V" pin when the output is connected to a 46V battery. Are these normal values ? I am at the first step of the test so input is not connected yet, only the 12V supply.


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## Geofrey (Apr 24, 2014)

A quick update : I found my way through the code and forced the calibration variables to reasonable values. This did not solved my problem. The adc seems to always output 1024, and that's why the charger asks me to drain 507V at the output.

The voltage at the A1 analog pin is fine (0.56-0.92V for 0-46V output) and the arduino works fine when unplugged of the charger. Something must be wrong in the code. I used V14.8. Anyone faced this problem or a similar one ?


----------



## Vtecsauce (Nov 21, 2010)

I had a couple questions; hope someone here can help

i know 2 current inrush limiters in the kit... are these to be used on ac side or dc battery side? do they have to stay connected?

Where do i find how to modify the output voltage of my charger to 425v+ ?

i have bought a kia soul ev, can i use this charger to charge is lipo type battery? how do i do it?

from the assembly of my charger.. i have couple resistors left over did i miss something? 

see this post for pics on my charger and resistors i had left over..
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=579778&postcount=2832

thank you


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I watched your "death bike" video, and I see that you have been doing quite a lot with various EVs, controllers, and motors. I can't help you much with the charger -yet - but I do have two of them that others have sent me to evaluate and possibly fix. I'm still recuperating from spine surgery so I'm on limited activity, but hopefully I'll get a chance soon to go through one of the chargers and try to put together a point-by-point process to check out the boards and components.

As I have pointed out in previous posts in this thread, there are quite a few inconsistencies and possible design weaknesses in this product, and even more recent releases have not fully resolved them (at least to my satisfaction). The software is another issue that some people are working on, but I have not heard anything recently. I might make an Arduino sketch that is designed to "exercise" various parts of the charger to assist with troubleshooting.

I'll follow up with any progress I may make.


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## sexstrap (Feb 25, 2013)

Vtecsauce said:


> I had a couple questions; hope someone here can help
> 
> i know 2 current inrush limiters in the kit... are these to be used on ac side or dc battery side? do they have to stay connected?
> 
> ...


Hi Vtecsauce

The Current Inrush resistors are meant to be used on the AC side only, inline (in series with) with the live and neutral wires, However if you can implement a pre-charge circuit AFAIK you don't actually need them, They are there to slow down the "in-rush" of current to the charger to prevent any damage being done at switch on, The reason you might want to dump them and use a pre-charge circuit instead is because they essentially waste 40Watts of power for no reason other than to limit the inrush current for the first split second after power on, After that they are essentially 2 x 20 watt bulbs burning for no reason. A cheap and dirty fix for preventing damage to the charger. That said I still have not got around to adding pre-charge to mine, and yes it is on the list of things to do 

As for the changes to implement LIPO charging, I cheated and just lied about the number of cells to allow me to get the correct pack voltage, However Arber333 showed me the way in post #2823 on this thread (just a few pages back from here) Again I have as yet to implement this as my EV is in use daily.

I would not worry to much about extra components left over, I think almost everyone had a few bits left over (I was sent complete PCB's that were not needed! plus a handful of unneeded extras)

Good Luck.


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## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

I am using this charger with an Elithion BMS. I have the EOC connection between the two, but when the BMS is trying to balance the cells it needs to cycle the charger on and off. The charger doesn't respond to additional on/off states on the EOC input. Once it gets the signal to stop charging, it's done for good.
Do any of you know what code I would need to add to make this happen?

Thanks!

Brandon


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Rastusmalinus said:


> I am using this charger with an Elithion BMS. I have the EOC connection between the two, but when the BMS is trying to balance the cells it needs to cycle the charger on and off. The charger doesn't respond to additional on/off states on the EOC input. Once it gets the signal to stop charging, it's done for good.
> Do any of you know what code I would need to add to make this happen?
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


Hi

Yes if you use modern BMS it would have cca 500mA shunting capability. That way it is easier to control thermal effect. 
Here in post #1718 i found option how to lower the amps with EMW charger. 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=374677&postcount=1718

You would need additional port for input and a relay or optocoupler.
On control board pin "110 relay" i took out transistor and replacet it with one 10k resistor for signal decoupling. 
I also took 5V pin onboard and 110 relay pin and i made NC loop. If that loop opens pin 110 relay becomes active.
In code i changed this port to input and set the if conditional so it would limit current to 2A if BMS cuts the line. It is the same function as BMS/EOC stop pins.

I figured out that when BMS activates this port charger lowers current very gradually. No sudden drops of power. Its good because at high amps cells lift their potential higher than it is in reality. If you lower current they fall down a bit. That way you have fluent control of how much current do batteries want to pull .

A


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Oh, i almost forgot... 
In case you dont use any other output with your BMS besides shutoff then you should comment line in code after BMS/EOC shutoff. That way charger would not shutoff but pause every time and wait some seconds and restart duty slowly. 

Here:
// check HVC signal from BMS
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) { // active LOW (so you need to pull up by connecting miniBMS loop to EOC signal)
// BMS commanding charger to stop
// noise protection - ensure signal stays on for 200ms or so
delay(500);
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) {
// this is for real
printClrMsg(MSG_BMSSTOP, 5000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
delay (2000);
stopPWM();
// out1=out2=outV=outC=outC_avg=outV_avg=0; // force duty ramp after this condition clears
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) {
delay(200); 
if(digitalRead(pin_BMS)==LOW) { 
// printClrMsg(MSG_BMSSTOP, 5000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
delay (200);
stopPWM();
return 1; // assume this is a normal end-of charge but do not allow any more steps (return 1)
} 
}
}
} 


Note i use longer delay to be sure BMS is really shunting not some transient. 
Basicaly ou have to just comment out the *return 1* statement and charger will wake up every time.

A


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## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks, A!


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If anyone has the Arduino code in Intel Hex format, I have made a simple Hex2Bin program that displays the hex file and also the corresponding text, which may help identify the version (which may or may not be included in the sketch, but should be). Here is a screen shot:










If you would like to use this application, it is available for download here:

http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/Hex2Bin.exe

The use of the AVR Dragon to extract the code from the Arduino is explained in my thread on analysis, troubleshooting, and fixing the DIY charger.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi Guys,

Can someone let me know the model of the IGBT used for the optional PFC board? Or is it still a generic half bridge IGBT with the spare switch used as a freewheeling diode? 

Thanks


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The IGBTs in the charger I'm working on are both the same. The PFC circuit runs at a fixed 22 kHz frequency determined by the IR1153S chip. So, the IGBT should be fairly fast to minimize switching losses.


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## cts_casemod (Aug 23, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> The IGBTs in the charger I'm working on are both the same. The PFC circuit runs at a fixed 22 kHz frequency determined by the IR1153S chip. So, the IGBT should be fairly fast to minimize switching losses.


Hi Paul,

Sorry haven’t quite got that. How is the free-wheeling diode implemented? Is this still done using an IGBT body diode as in the original setup (and if so what model is this IGBT) or was it replaced by a normal fast diode?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

They are Semikron SKM195GB066D. Rated 600V, 200A, about 60 nSec for the IGBT and 200 nSec ON and 500 nSec OFF for the diode, which is used for freewheeling flyback energy transfer to the output capacitors of the boost switching circuit.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

I have a version 9ish charger that I finally got up and running. Looking for some help from the guys who have run this at high voltages (output). I'm looking to basically max out the output voltage and may require modifications to bump that up. 

It charges a 55v battery just fine, problem is at higher pack voltages it never starts, just skips each charge phase and shows charge complete.

I may bring in my car and see if it will charge a 275v pack instead of this higher voltage pack, it's sitting at 337v, I've tried charging it to 340v and up.

I realize I may run into high voltage limits, but expect to be able to charge it to 350v as the charger is typically rated. (this has varied version to version and source as well)


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I have a version 9ish charger that I finally got up and running. Looking for some help from the guys who have run this at high voltages (output). I'm looking to basically max out the output voltage and may require modifications to bump that up.
> 
> It charges a 55v battery just fine, problem is at higher pack voltages it never starts, just skips each charge phase and shows charge complete.
> 
> ...


I tried running single phase up to 302VDC @ 5A. This was only to check feasibility of single phase charging. More than 8A i can hear IGBT schratching because of ripple. I expect you are running into line rectified voltage limit.
I recommend using 380V P-P 3phase then. I succesfully charged my pack with [email protected] up to 80% full. It seems IGBT gets very hot there. Good cooling is essential.

Changes...
I use my own power board design to mount 450V 1000uF caps in series to make 900V possibiity. 
I use 200A 1200V IGBT
I specificaly rewound inductor on T400 yellow/green core to cca 500uH ~ 42 turns.
I changed driver chip to 4A and use Murata MGJ2D121509SC DCDC +15V/-9V that can withstand full short indefinitely. I also use TVS P6KE18CA diodes across GE connections.
I also added 2x 100K 2W sense resistors so i can put 600VDC trough to sense opto.

A


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Same result trying to charge an 83 cell LiFePO4 pack. I'll have to dig deeper into the design/hardware/software, I haven't looked at the charger in so long I'm rusty.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I haven't done much on the charger retrofit lately because of other commitments and issues, but I want to stay on top of any issues peoploe find and hopefully correct in their chargers. The ones I have to work on are basically version 11-13 but I have an old driver board that is probably version 9.x. I've only worked with the V13 and V14 firmware and I don't think I'll use much of it for my revised design. 

The units I have are both PFC and that is what I plan to use as the basis for the redesign. The non-PFC units should still work, but with limited capability. If you have the PFC, you might be able to boost the DC voltage by adjusting R7, R8, and R14. But you may need to be careful about trying to get very much current because it may stress the PFC IGBT, and there is no effective current limiting in that stage. I plan to put a current-sensing clamp-on adapter on the inductor leads to monitor peak currents with a scope, to determine if the inductor is saturating.

If you do not have a PFC stage then you might build a voltage doubler, or add a boost transformer to the AC input to add maybe 24 VAC to the mains voltage for a 10% increase. For 5000 watts you only need a 500 VA transformer to get 264 VAC from a 240 VAC source.

Good luck!


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> I have a version 9ish charger that I finally got up and running. Looking for some help from the guys who have run this at high voltages (output). I'm looking to basically max out the output voltage and may require modifications to bump that up.
> 
> It charges a 55v battery just fine, problem is at higher pack voltages it never starts, just skips each charge phase and shows charge complete.
> 
> ...


Hi Robin - I assume you have reset the # of cells to the right value in the setup? 

The behavior you described is consistent with the charger set for a lower voltage battery than it is connected to.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> Hi Robin - I assume you have reset the # of cells to the right value in the setup?
> 
> The behavior you described is consistent with the charger set for a lower voltage battery than it is connected to.


Hello Valery,

Yes reconfigured for appropriate cell counts, even fudged numbers a tad higher on a try or two just to see if I could get it to start.

If it helps the trouble shooting, it seemed to recognize the 54v pack properly (as 53v) but not the 337 or 270v packs when connected, they each read around 28v and I had to manually enter the value.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Hopefully Valery can provide some help, but it seems like the output voltage reading function is messed up (or there is a hardware problem). It seems there is a major difference between the older version with the ISO1024 and the newer A7520, so determine what you have and set the #define accordingly. I have used V12 firmware for my tests. Here is the function that reads the voltage:


```
float readV() {
  return (sampleRead(pin_bV)-V_o_bV)*divider_k_bV; //  isolation opamp
```
The calibration constants for the voltage divider are set up as follows:


```
#ifdef PFCdirect
  const float upperR0_bV=2400.; // 2.4M in PFC direct units to extend sensing to 420V
#else
  const float upperR0_bV=2000.; // 2M in regular units
#endif
float divider_k_bV=-1.;
#ifdef A7520_V
  // resistor from -5V regulator; should form a ~-.25V divider together with the 
  // bottom resistor => >20x * bottom resistor 
  // for 2.7k bottom resistor, pick between 60k and 82k; 68k is a good choice... 
  const float V_o_bV0=Vcc/2-Vcc*2.7/68.*gain_7520; // -5V input, 2.7k bottom resistor, ~10x gain; // ~2.5V for A7520
  const float lowerR0_bV=2.7*gain_7520; // +-0.256V range for input, ~10x gain, 2.7k bottom resistor
  const float lowerR_bV=lowerR0_bV;
#else
  const float V_o_bV0=V_o_V0;
  const float lowerR0_bV=27.; // 27k
  const float lowerR_bV=23.79; // in parallel with 200k input resistance of the iso124
#endif
float V_o_bV=V_o_bV0;
```
and


```
divider_k_bV=upperR0_bV/lowerR_bV;
```
and the zero and slope calibration:


```
// now actual zero cal
       if(fabs(outV)<40) { // if too far off, fault out
         // output voltage calibration
         temp=outV/divider_k_bV;
         V_o_bV+=temp; // this needs to be adjusted HERE because we are calling readV() again below for sensitivity calibration
         configuration.Vcal=temp; 
         printConstStr(0, 5, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CAL0);
         delay(1000);
       }
 
       // now calibrate voltage sensor slope
       // first, double-check we have reset to zero point
       // for PFCdirect units, this will only work if ONLY 12V is powered up, no main AC connected!
       outV=readV(); // get the readings with zero-point already calibrated
       if(fabs(outV)<3) { // should be pretty tight after zero calibration
         myLCD->clrScreen();
         printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CAL1); // this asks to connect the battery
         delay(1000); // to avoid reading same button state as in prev step
         while(1) {
           outV=readV();
           if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton) || digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button))  break;
           if(outV>10) { // loop until battery not connected
             delay(5000); // let settle
             outV=readV(); // read settled voltage
             // calibrate
             printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CAL2);
             // calibration routine here - if actual voltage > shown, REDUCE the constant
             configuration.Vcal_k=DecimalDigitInput3(int(outV))/outV;
             break; // from while() loop
           }
         }
       }
       state = STATE_CONFIRM;
       break;
     case STATE_CONFIRM:
       myLCD->clrScreen();
       printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CONFIRM);
       sprintf(str, "%d %s cells, %dAH", configuration.nCells, battTypeLabel[configuration.battType], configuration.AH);       
       myLCD->printStr(0, 1, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, str);
       x=MenuSelector2(menuNavigateLen, menuNavigate);
       if(x == 0) state = STATE_DONE;
       if(x == 1) state = STATE_BT;
       break;
     default: break;
   } 
  }
  // parameters calculated from config variables go here
  // adjust core sensor constants
  V_o_bV=V_o_bV0+configuration.Vcal;
  V_o_C+=configuration.Ccal;
  divider_k_bV*=configuration.Vcal_k; 
 
  minBattV=minBattVs[configuration.battType]*configuration.nCells/10;
```
It's rather confusing, but perhaps the calibration needs to be redone. You might be able to use an adjustable voltage source on the output and see what the voltage reads on the display at various points. It may be very non-linear or it could be something like integer overflow, or even a truncated digit in the display, where your "28" is actually "280" but you can't see the last digit.

One more thing I noticed is that the Vout connection on the driver board is shown on the cathode side of the optional off-board 50A diode, but without it, the two 560 uF output filter capacitors will be across the output, and the detection of battery disconnection probably won't work very well, if at all.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the response, this is my 3rd EMW, so I'm reasonably familiar with them. Although each one has been a different version! I built an early one before they had version numbers, this one is a V9 that I bought awhile ago but never finished. I also built a V14 for a friend. The other two I got up and running (with hickups, but working nicely now). 

I had an issue with the output current sensor, it would start to charge but be all over the map as far as current readings, turned out to be a defective current sensor, I swapped that and all is well in that regard. The output voltage reading seems solid at low voltages but not so much at high. I'll trace the voltage reading back and see where it goes wrong, I've confirmed the power supply to the ISO1024's is good.

I'll confirm hardware first, but I've lost track of the software, working on 3 different versions has made that difficult, I do have the correct #defines for the hardware in my charger though.

I am using the output diode and the Vout connection is on the battery side. 

I have a car here with a 155v battery, I'll give that a try and see if I can find the voltage where things start to go wrong. My variable power supply only goes up to 50v and the charger works just fine in that range.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

So oddly enough, (after zero changes made) it's working. I had confirmed the output of the ISO124 was a stable output and within a few mv of the input with the 55v battery connected. I changed to the 337.5v battery and it registered 337v this time, with an appropriate input/output from the ISO124. So then I started the charge cycle and sure enough it works just fine. 120v and 240v input both seem to work well.

There is one odd occurance on 240v though, the displayed output voltage is off (and seems to drop roughly proportional to the actual increase in output voltage) the output voltage displayed with 120v input is accurate within 1v which at 340v isn't too bad. However when charging at about 9A into the pack at 344v the output voltage on the display reads 327v (started at 336v and dropped as it should have increased, and really does increase at the terminal the Vout voltage is measured at), I have a feeling this will mess with termination of the charge.


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> So oddly enough, (after zero changes made) it's working. I had confirmed the output of the ISO124 was a stable output and within a few mv of the input with the 55v battery connected. I changed to the 337.5v battery and it registered 337v this time, with an appropriate input/output from the ISO124. So then I started the charge cycle and sure enough it works just fine. 120v and 240v input both seem to work well.
> 
> There is one odd occurance on 240v though, the displayed output voltage is off (and seems to drop roughly proportional to the actual increase in output voltage) the output voltage displayed with 120v input is accurate within 1v which at 340v isn't too bad. However when charging at about 9A into the pack at 344v the output voltage on the display reads 327v (started at 336v and dropped as it should have increased, and really does increase at the terminal the Vout voltage is measured at), I have a feeling this will mess with termination of the charge.


Glad the zero-current reading is ok now. A bit disconcerting that we can't pinpoint the reason for it to be off initially, thought. 

Regarding voltage creep down as the current grows, this is a known issue on some ISO124 chips. Basically, the CM immunity on some of the chips falls below the requirement and switching transients find their way into the secondary side. The immediate solution is a 0.01uF 400V+ film cap between the primary and secondary 'grounds' of the ISO124.

This is why in the later versions we went to 7520 chips that are guaranteed at 15kV/uS.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> Glad the zero-current reading is ok now. A bit disconcerting that we can't pinpoint the reason for it to be off initially, thought.
> 
> Regarding voltage creep down as the current grows, this is a known issue on some ISO124 chips. Basically, the CM immunity on some of the chips falls below the requirement and switching transients find their way into the secondary side. The immediate solution is a 0.01uF 400V+ film cap between the primary and secondary 'grounds' of the ISO124.
> 
> This is why in the later versions we went to 7520 chips that are guaranteed at 15kV/uS.


Thanks Valery, I'll give that a try. On the plus side the charger works well, I was able to test at 5kw for quite awhile with no issues.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

rwaudio said:


> Thanks Valery, I'll give that a try. On the plus side the charger works well, I was able to test at 5kw for quite awhile with no issues.


Since you had problems with charger i decided to test single phase more thoroughly. It showed that untill 8A everything worked normally albeit with some more noise than 3phase. But at 8A IGBT started to emit stuttering noise. Cap voltage is at 300V but there are gaps in weaves... Also breaker is starting to heat up there. So single phase remains a backup.
Here in EU we use 16A fuse per phase in residential, industrial applications use 25A or 32A fuses though. so i got 2,3kW out of my net with nonPFC charger.
3phase though i ran yesterday at 25A 7,2kW output for an hour. I guess by then it heats up to 50°C and reduces current to 20A. Fuses dont mind this... 
I will add another fan in front. Will check heating then.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> I haven't done much on the charger retrofit lately because of other commitments and issues, but I want to stay on top of any issues peoploe find and hopefully correct in their chargers. The ones I have to work on are basically version 11-13 but I have an old driver board that is probably version 9.x. I've only worked with the V13 and V14 firmware and I don't think I'll use much of it for my revised design.
> 
> The units I have are both PFC and that is what I plan to use as the basis for the redesign. The non-PFC units should still work, but with limited capability. If you have the PFC, you might be able to boost the DC voltage by adjusting R7, R8, and R14. But you may need to be careful about trying to get very much current because it may stress the PFC IGBT, and there is no effective current limiting in that stage. I plan to put a current-sensing clamp-on adapter on the inductor leads to monitor peak currents with a scope, to determine if the inductor is saturating.
> 
> ...


I tweaked the value of R14 very slightly (given the ratio of the divider it doesn't take much) I think I might put in a trim pot (250 or 500 ohm, in series with 24.5k or a 1k ten turn) to dial in an exact value then glue it in the desired setting. Right now I'm sitting at 400v which is higher than I'd like but the best I could do with resistors that I have on hand. I'd like to get it in the 385-390v range which should just give me the desired output voltage of 375 with a bit of tweaking.

Voltage is all over the place, even a bit at 120v input, forgot to search for the appropriate cap before coming to work, so we will see how this thing does if it can hit the target voltage and terminate or if it's just not going to work without a more stable reading. The good news is I can charge the car now, having a car with a 30kwh battery and no charger was a bit of a pain.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I looked at the schematic more carefully and you might also need to change the value of R15 (which comes off R11 and R12), and is used for brown-out detection (BOP). The R7/R8/R14 divider is used for overvoltage protection (OVP) as well as feedback for regulation (VFB). The data sheet application schematic shows separate dividers for OVP and VFB. The internal reference for VFB seems to be an internally generated 5 VDC. Thus, with the voltage divider of 2M/27K the voltage out would be 375 VDC. The resistors seem to be only 5% so it could be 357 to 394 VDC. The 5V reference can be 4.7 to 5.1 VDC so the error could be greater.

It seems that the OVP may kick in at the same time as VFB, so the regulation loop may be unstable, as described in the app note. There should be two dividers, with the one for OVP set at least 6% higher than bus voltage. The internal reference might be already set at this point so that a single divider could be used as it is in this design, but I'm not sure.

The BOP thresholds are about 1.5V and 0.75V, which correspond to 112 and 56 VDC. That seems OK.

The PFC implementation is supposed to have a fast current sensing loop to maintain sinusoidal input current waveform, but the current sense resistor used in this design is just a twisted loop of copper wire with far too low resistance to be of any practical use.


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

valerun said:


> Glad the zero-current reading is ok now. A bit disconcerting that we can't pinpoint the reason for it to be off initially, thought.
> 
> Regarding voltage creep down as the current grows, this is a known issue on some ISO124 chips. Basically, the CM immunity on some of the chips falls below the requirement and switching transients find their way into the secondary side. The immediate solution is a 0.01uF 400V+ film cap between the primary and secondary 'grounds' of the ISO124.
> 
> This is why in the later versions we went to 7520 chips that are guaranteed at 15kV/uS.


The closest I could find was a pair of 0.01uF 250v capacitors so I put them in series from ground to ground, that gives roughly 0.005uF @ 500v, the charger seems to work great now and the voltage reading is rock solid (and accurate!!). It seems to terminate correctly and is working great.

Thanks Valery and PStechPaul for the help getting it up and running and tweaking the rail voltage. (once I settle on a voltage divider ratio I'll duplicate it on the other divider)


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The brown-out divider is not critical and need not match the feedback/OVP divider. Good to know it's working well now. Could you post an image of where and how you added these capacitors?


----------



## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

PStechPaul said:


> The brown-out divider is not critical and need not match the feedback/OVP divider. Good to know it's working well now. Could you post an image of where and how you added these capacitors?


They are installed on the back of the driver board, on the outer ISO124 (easier than the one that actually does the voltage but it's close the two chips are directly in parallel). I used a bit of silicone as well to physically hold them in place so it doesn't just rely on solder. Sorry for the poor picture it's charging the car right now and I'd like to drive it home for further testing.


----------



## desertdave (Sep 9, 2015)

HI

Where can I locate all the open source technical files for this project, every link I have seen on the forum so fat is not working ?


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

desertdave said:


> HI
> 
> Where can I locate all the open source technical files for this project, every link I have seen on the forum so fat is not working ?


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

That link has what appear to be the most recent version files (V14). The design changed quite a bit but there are still errors and very questionable circuitry. If you need information on earlier designs, I have some for version 12-13 and 9.x. You might find some useful info here:

http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/


----------



## desertdave (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks for that, 

I have a lot of reading to do over the weekend now,

I need to set up a system for a 100A 240V power input and a 600V DC charging output but a quick glance at the data here makes me think this may not be possible however I do see a version for the 110V input with a 350V DC voltage so I wonder if I can still use that version with a 240V input so rather than 350V DC it will give 700V DC with the required update of the parts ratings to 400V capacitors and 1200V IGBT's and then with the 700V DC voltage a 600V charging output should be no problem,

Has anyone done this sort of thing in the past with success ?,

Thanks

Dave


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## js1tr3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Valery,

what modifications are required to get the latest V14 Firmware with PID control running on V9 hardware?

is there some change logs or revision history I can follow without reading 3k posts?

thanks,


----------



## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello Paul,

Nice to see that you are still helping people via this forum. I hope your surgery has healed well. I have sent you several messages via the personal message board but it seems that they don't go through. Please give me an update on the charger that we sent you this spring, the one that never got high voltage on the output side. Yrs, Wm Smith III


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

William: I sent you an email. I will try to look at the charger in the next few days to see what might be wrong. Sorry things are going more slowly than expected, but I've had other commitments and my lower back has been giving increased trouble.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i didnt see any new stuff being uncovered here for some time now. Let me spice it up a bit.
I have a working 3phase charger for some time now using V12 later code quite a bit modified.
Changes from official EMW charger are plenty.

- redesigned control and driver board, no PFC for 3phase!
- new power board for combined single phase and 3phase charging.
- precharge through control board relay triggering AC 3phase contactor and 3 470R resistors.
- DC contactor for failsafe to disconnect battery from charger - BMS controled!
- Software mods include:
BMS triggered charger reduction to 1A (2A)
BMS triggered charger shutoff in case of overvoltage
Use of EOC signal to make a GSM module call when full
Incorporated charging upwards of 4V per cell for LiPo chemistry
distinction between 230VAC and 400VAC to reduce current from single phase 

Charger can manage 25A at 300VDC, 8kW continuously at 52°C. I charge max 9kW for 1/2hour then charger reduces back to 25A.
I have found out that i can reliably charge at 8A 300VDC before i trip the 16A fuses on single phase. 
Also IGBT starts to put out noise when caps cant manage current anymore.

Also i came to conclusion that below 180VDC there is no real benefit in using 3phase, since amps are limiting factor. So i designed power board so that caps can be easily paralleled for a single phase charger only.
Also design can accept at least two sizes of IGBT!

If someone is interested to build one i still have 10 power PCBs as well as some control and driver boards. PM me.

Arber


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

PM sent. I'd like to see schematics of the new boards and it would probably help to get a set to advance my efforts, which I know have fallen behind. Thanks.


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## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

The 12000W Charger recently started indicating the output charging amperage incorrectly and will not go into a proper charge. This happened after I attempted to extend the wires that connect to the control board to try to bring the controller into the cab. I did have the +5v and Ground wires backwards and thought this had damaged the Hall effect sensor.

We replaced the Hall effect Sensor and the LM-211 with no success.

Heres what it's doing, it indicates an output charge current of about 15 Amps after we start the charge cycle even when it has not started to charge.
It either does not go into the Charge mode or if does we here a weird sort of "pfft" sound and then the charge station kicks out and gives a fault error.

All voltages seems to be correct in that section of the circuit. Can anyone give us any hints as to what might be causing this.

Thanks
Brucifer


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Brucifer said:


> The 12000W Charger recently started indicating the output charging amperage incorrectly and will not go into a proper charge. This happened after I attempted to extend the wires that connect to the control board to try to bring the controller into the cab. I did have the +5v and Ground wires backwards and thought this had damaged the Hall effect sensor.
> 
> We replaced the Hall effect Sensor and the LM-211 with no success.
> 
> ...


Have you connected driver board and hall sensor to main board correctly? Check pin by pin.
Also check if you have LM211N chip, other chips will not work.
Check if there is a short from sensor to LM211N chip. Try to wipe the back of PCB with nitro, that should remove solder impurities.
Also check if you connected "shutdown" pin to any wire... in my experience EMI causes transistor to turn on and release this kind of sound.
Yes! check that you use N2222 transistors because european BC547 transistors have much less gain. They will not work on logical part of circuit.

Oh and check power +5V -5V chips on driver board, sometimes they are almost dead but still give some voltage. The same with capacitor on comparator supply pins.

A


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## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi Arber, Thanks for the response. We have gone through and checked all these things you suggested and everything seems to be good. We've pulled the charger out of the truck now and have it on the bench. We have 4 LiFePo4 cells that we have strung together in series to try to test charger functionality but it seems the voltage is perhaps too low to get the charger to engage. We have also tested 4 x 12v Pb UPS batteries we have strung together in series and are just simply trying to get the charger to initiate a charge, but still have no luck.
Any other suggestions?
thanks
Brucifer


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## barkati93 (Dec 7, 2015)

Please can i have the simulation for the circuit in ISIS for example?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Brucifer said:


> Hi Arber, Thanks for the response. We have gone through and checked all these things you suggested and everything seems to be good. We've pulled the charger out of the truck now and have it on the bench. We have 4 LiFePo4 cells that we have strung together in series to try to test charger functionality but it seems the voltage is perhaps too low to get the charger to engage. We have also tested 4 x 12v Pb UPS batteries we have strung together in series and are just simply trying to get the charger to initiate a charge, but still have no luck.
> Any other suggestions?
> thanks
> Brucifer


Well charge voltage has to be higher than 40VDC or so. It seems charger has problem seeing current. If for some reason hall sensor would put out more than 1A....3A.....5A...etc in the start it would go into fault. 

Try to measure output of hall sensor. Maybe you have wrong model?
You need ACS758LCB-100U. U not B, if you have bidirectional model sensor could sense current where there is none. 
Also if you use 50A version you would have to declare it in switches instead of 100A one. 

A


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## Brucifer (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi Arber,
We've strung 4 x 12v Pb batteries in series now (because there's no battery type of Lead Acid, we have just left it at LiFePo and told it there's 16 cells), so it's at 51v and we're setting Charge voltage cutoff at 57v. We have set output current to 5A. Using 120v 15A AC input. We just swapped out the Arduino and we are getting the same results. What is happening now is it won't go into charge. We've calibrated it and when it goes to 'Run' it immediately goes to "Step Complete" and won't initiate charge.
Any other ideas?
Thanks
Brucifer


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi folks!

Now i have a little problem. Since i have a 340VDC battery i only charged on 3phase until now. It is excellent! Great power density and no hot cables...
However last weekend i tried to make a transfusion to a friends EV at 200VDC. It ran great at 3phase but i also connected single phase. Here comes the problem.
While i connect single phase charger goes trough routine as before. It even shows 240V instead of 600V... but when charge phase starts PWM goes quickly trough 0% to 98% and stays there with 0A current running. Why is that so?

I know my total voltage is higher than singlephase but i should still be able to charge first 30% SOC.
Valery have i changed something in the code that could cause this?

I still use V12 code. My mods include:
5A BMS reduction using "fan" and "110 relay" ports, 
I changed 110V detection to 380V and it works
I changed 110V power reduction to 18! I would need max 8A of charge at 230VAC.
I use 4M total resistance for Vin sensing on opto

tnx

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

As a first check, see what the voltage is at the output IGBT C1, which should be at least 300 VDC if you have 240 VAC at the input. If the PWM is actually at 98%, the IGBT should be solidly ON, and there should be the same voltage on the C2E1 side. But that point should be just about at the output battery voltage, through the output toroid inductor and the output power diode.

It may be that the shutdown signal has been asserted, or the maxC signal may be too low. The comparator U9 will shut down if the C sense signal is higher than maxC, and the current sensor could have a DC offset that makes it have an output with no current flowing.

Good luck!


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi 

Valery i have a question for you, since you would probably notice this with your chargers.

I have disconnected LCD and set my software to "uLCD=true" so system would think LCD is allways there. Well it worked, kinda...
When i disconnect LCD and start, charger waits disproportionately sometimes for minutes before it starts. AND then it only goes as far as 5A! Never more... Only when i connect LCD back will charger ramp up to 25A that i set.

Why would that be? 
Should i connect 10K resistors from TX/RX to GND to suppress TTL?
Is there some other routine by which arduino could figure it doesnt have LCD connected?

tnx

A


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Here is the description of the startup sequence for V12 code:


```
------ Startup: 
* check for LCD presence. if none (programming button in the programming state), launch in the serial-controlled mode 
* 2 timeouts - one 5 sec for config, one 10 sec for power setting. can be interrupled by any button
* check mains voltage. If 110, limit power to ~1.5kW
* set duty cycle to 0
------ Charging (CV or CC):
* increase duty cycle until the condition is met (target voltage or target current)
* monitor condition by taking frequent samples averaging over 120Hz ripple waveform
* based on average value of condition, change duty cycle accordingly (slow down update frequency
  as we get closer to the target voltage)
* break when exit condition satisfied or stop / pause commands received
```
I could not find any instance of uLCD to be set true or false. But I did find:


```
int LCD_on=0; // this defines manual vs serial-controlled operation
```
and

```
// check if the display started / is present
  // if not present, we will assume that the charger is controlled by serial data instead
  LCD_on=myLCD->isAlive();
```
There are many places where LCD_on is checked.

Look in the uLCD_144_SPE library for the definition of isAlive(). It waits for an ACK response on the RXD line, and if not present, it likely times out:


```
isAlive_=waitAck();
```
HTH


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes i changed LCD_on line so it is allways true

// LCD_on=myLCD->isAlive();
LCD_on=true;

But i dont know why would charger reduce to 5A? Is there any line present that code would default to?

Huh maybe it would be better to just declare serial comm and disconnect LCD from wires. Not buttons though, i will need them to stop or restart charger manualy.

A


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well guys i found another thing in my charger. While i charge there is annoying red button function. Charger keep going into pause and is waiting for me to reset. It is very annoying, which means i have to periodicaly check charge in the evening. If not in the morning car would be like 70% full!!!

Does anyone have any idea how to put in the code a timeout eg. 15s and reset function. It would be the same as if i would press green button after 15s . I am not a good programmer...

Here is the code for pause if button press:

 // check if need to stop - RED button pressed?
if(isBtnPressed()==0b10) {
byte b=0;
printClrMsg(MSG_USRPAUSE, 1000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0); 
stopPWM();
out1=out2=outV=outC=outC_avg=outV_avg=0; // force duty ramp

do {
delay(100);
b=isBtnPressed();
} while(!b);
if(LCD_on) myLCD->clrScreen();
// button pressed. which one?
if(b==0b10) { // another RED!
stopPWM(); 
return 1; // out of the main charger loop, do not allow second cycle
}

// if we are here, this means GREEN button was pressed
// resume operation
if(LCD_on) myLCD->clrScreen();
resetDelayParams();
}


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Ugh! What ugly code! I was confused by the use of 0b01 and 0b10 for binary 1 and 2, as the correct representation is B01 and B10. 

I don't know why your charger stops charging and requests a manual reset, but here is the code for the function called in the code you posted:


```
//-------------------------------------- check for button press -------------
// returns bitmask: bit 0 = green button, bit 1 = red button
// this takes max of 50ms if the button is pressed, and up to 100ms if BOTH buttons are pressed!
// still need to do debounce...
// in the SERIAL-CONTROLLED mode, 'STOP' command simulates red button, 'START' command - green button
byte isBtnPressed() {
  byte bmask=0;
  if(LCD_on) {
    // green button?
    if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button)==HIGH) {
      // check if noise
      for(int zz=0; zz<10; zz++) {
        if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrl2Button)==LOW) bmask&=0b10; // reset bit 0
        delay(5);
      }
      bmask|=0b01; // set bit 0
    } 
    // red button?
    if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==HIGH) {
      // check if noise
      for(int zz=0; zz<10; zz++) {
        if(digitalRead(pin_pwrCtrlButton)==LOW)  bmask&=0b01; // reset bit 1
        delay(5);
      }
      bmask|=0b10; // set bit 1
    } 
  } else {
    // serial controlled mode
    // 'M,001,000,E' is STOP (or RED button emulation)
    // 'M,000,001,E' is START (or GREEN button emulation)
    cmd[0]=cmd[1]=0;
    readSerialCmd(cmd);
    if(cmd[0]<2 && cmd [1]<2) {
      bmask=cmd[0]*0b10+cmd[1];
    }
  }
  return bmask;
}
```
It looks like stopPWM() is called as soon as the red button is pressed and then it waits forever for it to be pressed again, or for a green button press, and then apparently the resetDelayParams() restarts the PWM, although I don't know exactly how. I'll see if I can code a timeout to break the endless loop.


```
[COLOR=#FF0000]
[COLOR=Blue]int tmo=50; //50*100mSec=5 sec[/COLOR]
do {
    delay(100);
    b=isBtnPressed();
    [COLOR=Blue]tmo--;[/COLOR]
    } while(!b[COLOR=Blue] && tmo>0[/COLOR]);
[/COLOR]
```
Hope this helps. Let me know if it works.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

You are great Paul!
Your code worked the first time i tried. 

Here is the added 5s delay, i may change it to 10s.
line 1283
// check if need to stop - RED button pressed?
if(isBtnPressed()==0b10) {
byte b=0;
printClrMsg(MSG_USRPAUSE, 1000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0); 
stopPWM();
out1=out2=outV=outC=outC_avg=outV_avg=0; // force duty ramp

 int tmo=50; //50*100mSec=5 sec
do {
delay(100);
b=isBtnPressed();
 tmo--;
} while(!b && tmo>0);
if(LCD_on) myLCD->clrScreen();
// button pressed. which one?
if(b==0b10) { // another RED!
stopPWM(); 
return 1; // out of the main charger loop, do not allow second cycle
}

// if we are here, this means GREEN button was pressed
// resume operation
if(LCD_on) myLCD->clrScreen();
resetDelayParams();
}

tnx

A


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Glad it worked for you. I am still hoping to do more work on the chargers I have, but I have had other priorities as well as limited ability. I'm scheduled for lumbar spine surgery April 4 and maybe I'll be able to do more once I'm healed up from that. It helps to get encouragement such as this good news. Perhaps the charger is not a lost cause after all!


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Perhaps the charger is not a lost cause after all!


Well it certanly works at 10kW 3phase. However i wouldnt just give it to anyone to use. For example last week i suddenly couldnt charge on level 2 public stations. I finally figured that earth line was somehow messing with GFI circuits. When i disconnected earth from car chassis everything worked...
Heres the catch... i have GFI circuit at home, but here charging works every day. Its wierd but charger works. 

Well see... Hope you get better soon.

tnx

A


----------



## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

PStechPaul said:


> Glad it worked for you. I am still hoping to do more work on the chargers I have, but I have had other priorities as well as limited ability. I'm scheduled for lumbar spine surgery April 4 and maybe I'll be able to do more once I'm healed up from that. It helps to get encouragement such as this good news. Perhaps the charger is not a lost cause after all!


Be safe and hoping for a speedy recovery. Do you have a specialist doing the spine work? I hope so. 

Pete


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have a surgeon who is well known for spine surgery, and he did a great job on my cervical spine surgery last April. Apparently that was "trickier" than the lumbar, and it turned out just fine and I am now his "poster boy" for the operation where he takes my MRI and X-ray films to presentations he gives to other surgeons. I've "suffered" off-and-on for over 30 years with this congenital spinal stenosis, but it has become severely limiting for the past five years (which also included a hip replacement in 2013). It is frustrating because I feel OK while I'm sitting at the computer or lying in bed, but when I try to stand or walk or bend over very much, it becomes painful and debilitating. I really want to be able to enjoy some recreation and work, and hopefully this operation will go far to correct the problem.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have started to examine the second charger sent to me by WSIII. Here are some images of what I've found so far:

This is the driver board. Note that some of the wires are solid conductor - not good for connectors or for wiring in a device subject to shock and vibration, as in a vehicle. I also found that the wires from the Vbop and Vout are incorrectly switched on the power board.










Here is the bottom of the driver board. Note the arc flash. It probably came from the power board. I will have to clean this and touch up the soldering, and then do some testing:










Here is the control board and the 12V power supply. Note the solid blue wires that connect to the thermistor on the heat sink. The connector is shifted so that it does not connect. Also, the power supply input jack pins are loose in the PCB.










The control board again. You can see the solid blue wires from the thermistor going to the shifted positions on the connector. 










The following two images show the tangled mess that is the wiring for this charger. It makes it very difficult to troubleshoot and service, as well as building it in the first place:



















I don't know how far I'll be able to get with this. At some point I will need to make the replacement boards, which will be made such that testing and servicing will be much easier. Hopefully the power PCB can remain as-is. It is very difficult to remove from the IGBTs and the capacitors will require a lot of heat to unsolder. They are probably the most expensive parts of the design, except for the IGBTs and the inductors.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Continuing with testing and troubleshooting. First, additional disassembly:



















After removal of the power board, IGBTs, and diode bridges from heatsink:










And here are the inductors:










First thing was to check the 12V power supply. It was good. Then I connected a variable supply to the 12V input of the driver board. It drew 1 amp at 2.2 volts - NOT good. I replaced the DC-DC converter U3, and I was able to apply full 12 VDC, but it drew 0.22-0.35 amps, and the IGBT driver A3120 (U6) was hot, so I removed it. However, the output of the 78L05 regulator (S2) was only 2.5 volts. I replaced it, but no joy, so I removed the isolated amplifier A7520 (U2), and the board drew only about 40 mA. Here is the board with the offending parts removed:










I have installed sockets for the ICs. The way the board is made makes it difficult to desolder and remove components. Now for some more testing, to be continued...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

When i reassembled my charger (many times over) i always checked if A7520 was good. Usually it warns me when i try to calibrate.
Also one time a cap above A7520 was blown and i couldnt calibrate also.

If driver chip was toast then check IGBT also, since usually burned chip takes with it transistor gate and DCDC converter.

I always use sockets for ICs. I even tried 5pin 2.5mm socket interface to instal DCDC to. 

Now i always install Murata MGJ2D121509SC and SI8261BBC-C-IP 4A driver. I never had a problem with IGBT since.

A


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## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello Paul,

Thanks so much for your work testing our defective charger, especially for putting in sockets for the IC's. Great idea.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I tried to figure out a way to read the flash memory of the Arduino so that I could archive what was in the charger and perhaps determine its version. But it seems that it cannot be done with the bootloader and FTDI USB/serial device, using the AVRdude software. So, I let loose the mighty Dragon and connected it directly to the Arduino Pro Mini after removing it from the display board. It did not seem to be able to connect with the board attached. This might be because of the SCK (D13) which has a 10k resistor to GND for BMSin, but more likely it might be the 5VDC power being loaded down by the voltage regulator (labeled S9). Here is how I connected it:










And here is the flash memory dump showing the first part of the installed firmware. Unfortunately there is no way to tell what version this is. I just saved it so I could reload it if needed, after I make some changes or install diagnostic firmware:










I also have a thread on the HSM site that goes into the use of the AVRdude application and attempts to use it to dump the flash memory. There are some SPI interfaces that are much cheaper than the Dragon (although it was not too expensive).

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/th...uino-(Pro-Mini)-using-AVRdude-or-Atmel-Studio


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

I try to obtain an answer to a question on my build thread here. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/smart-fortwo-ev-high-power-version-51472p33.html post #325



> The charger is working, but at a reduced power. I set 240v 20A in and 196v 35A out (196v CV and 24A CC), but the max output is around 2,3Kw (see video).
> The strange things on the screen is IN: 120v after a second despite I connect it to 240v (1:03 in the video).
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzwB7RhcvOo
> 
> ...


Thanks.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

This seems to be a common problem and it is caused by the improper use of a cheap optocoupler as an isolated analog sensor. It is supposed to be just a simple indicator of 120 versus 240 volt input and is used mostly to limit the power when it thinks it is connected to 120V mains. Here is the code where it takes this reading and makes the determination:


```
const byte pin_mV=5;
pinMode(pin_mV, INPUT);

float mainsV=0, outV=0, outC=0;

// read mains voltage. this function will take ~15mS to complete!
float read_mV() {
  // find peak voltage
  float peakV=0, peakV_new=0;
  
  // need to sample at least 10ms - half-period of 50Hz input
  // analogRead takes 0.1uS itself
  // to be sure we cover 10mS, add a delay of 70uS to each loop
  for(int i=0; i<100; i++) {
#ifdef PC817 
    peakV_new=5-analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // with PC817 sensing, opto inverts the wave
    // R4 on the driver board is selected so that the 5V means ~the same input voltage as 5V in ISO124 sensing
#else    
    peakV_new=analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // 10-bit ADC
#endif
    if(peakV_new>peakV) peakV=peakV_new;
    delayMicroseconds(70);
  }
#ifdef PC817
  if(peakV>2.) return 240;
  return 120;
#endif

#ifdef DCinput
  return (peakV-V_o_mV0)*divider_k_mV; // peak = RMS for DC
#else 
  return (peakV-V_o_mV0)*divider_k_mV/1.414*1.2; // RMS + adjustment for RC filter on the control board
#endif
}
```
This function is called here:

```
void loop() {  
  // ---------------real loop()
  float pwr;
  int J1772_dur;
  mainsV=read_mV();
```
And the mainsV variable is used here:

```
while(state != STATE_SHUTDOWN)
      {
        if(LCD_on) {
          myLCD->clrScreen();
          printConstStr(0, 6, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, MSG_LCD_PARAMS);
          sprintf(str, "IN: %dV, %dA", int(mainsV), configuration.mainsC); myLCD->printStr(1, 7, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str);
          sprintf(str, "OUT: %dV, %dA", int(outV), configuration.CC); myLCD->printStr(1, 8, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str);
          sprintf(str, "T-OUT: %dmin", timeOut); myLCD->printStr(1, 9, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0, str); 
        }

case STATE_WAIT_TIMEOUT:
          printConstStr(0, 0, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x00, MSG_LCD_CFG);
          x=BtnTimeout(10, 3);
          
          // check J1772
          J1772_dur=pulseIn(pin_J1772, HIGH);  //change PES
          if(J1772_dur>50) { // noise control. also, deals with the case when no J1772 signal present at all
            absMaxChargerPower=mainsV*6/100*J1772_dur; // J1772 spec - every 100uS = 6A input
          }
          
          if(x == 1) state = STATE_TOP_MENU; // some button was pressed
          if(x == -1) // nothing pressed
           { 
            state = STATE_CHARGE;
           }
          break;

         case STATE_CHARGE:
            pwr=configuration.mainsC; 
            // curb power on 110VAC
#ifdef drop110power            
            // 110VAC=160VDC rectified, 220VAC=320VDC - 240VDC is a midpoint in non-PFC
            // 165VDC is a midpoint in PFC version. Use below midpoint between 240 and 160 = 180
            if(mainsV<180) { 
              pwr/=2; // later, pwr is assumed to be a 220VAC-equivalent current
              pwr=min(pwr, 9.); // equivalent 15A from 110VAC // DEBUG
  #ifndef PFC              
              if(mainsV>minMains) {
                // protection against faulty mains reading
                // close 110VAC relay for doubler to operate
                digitalWrite(pin_110relay, HIGH); 
                delay(1000);
              }
  #endif
            }
#endif
            //------------ ensure output power does not exceed other limits
            // output power limit for this session
            maxOutC=min(pwr*charger_efficiency*240/maxOutV, absMaxChargerCurrent);
            // lifetime output power limit 
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, absMaxChargerPower/maxOutV );
            // curb further if user-spec'ed current is less
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, configuration.CC); 
            // finally, input current limit - only for DCinput
#ifdef DCinput
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, MAXinputC*mainsV/maxOutV);
#endif
```
And also here around line 1268:

```
mainsV=read_mV(); // only infrequently as the averaging interval is pretty long (10mS)

#ifndef DEBUG        
      // check mains
      if(mainsV<minMains) {
        delay(2000);
        printClrMsg(MSG_LOSTIN, 5000, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
        stopPWM();           
        return 1;
      }
#endif
      
      // end measCycle loop
    }
```
Perhaps a special case:

```
// what if we only have input current sense (some UPP units)
// in that case, rescale the output current from input using the voltages
#ifdef INC_ASOUT
  current*=mainsV/outV;
#endif
```
You might be able to fix this by lowering R53 from 200k to perhaps 150k, or raising the value of R4 from 2.4-2.7k to perhaps 3.3k. Or if you prefer a software approach, make adjustments to the following:

```
peakV_new=5-analogRead(pin_mV)*Aref/1024.; // with PC817 sensing, opto inverts the wave
```
Rather than mess with Aref, which is defined as const float Aref=Vcc;, and used elsewhere, perhaps add a "calibration factor" to the function. Without actually reading the voltage on the Arduino pin 5, it will be "hit or miss", or you can actually read it and then determine what value works. Ideally you could use a variable input voltage and make the set-point to be something like 150-180 VAC. Remember that you need to make the reading lower because the output voltage is inversely proportional to the input due to the use of the PC817 optocoupler.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks a lot. I will try to do something with this and let you know.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well er... how shall i put this. Charger got me again! I put some additional batteries in a car and voltage toped at 410VDC! Yay! I charged a couple times, but my charger was acting a bit strange...
Wouldnt go beyond 402Vdc, after that duty went to 0!

I tried to correct it and changed this line in code 

// protect buck's freewheeling diode from high current at low duty - limit to average of 80A through diode
absMaxChargerCurrent=min(absMaxChargerCurrent, 80./(1-outV/420)); // 400 set to 420 to power higher voltage


Also i changed resistor divider for DC sense line from 2M2 to 4M but in my ignorance i corrected code to 4M1! 
Well it worked kinda...Of course reference was way off and charger stopped at 95% SOC...
Now i corrected even that line, all works well. 

However in between i had another episode! Since i prepared my own power board i made ROT for 300VDC and so all clearances are cca 3mm. Now i applied 400VDC and charger virtually cooked elcaps. I had to replace them and remake conneections. Voltage is a bi..ch!

A


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Ouch! That's a bummer. But 3mm clearance should be good for up to over 500V peak, according to this:

http://www.smpspowersupply.com/ipc2221pcbclearance.html

What is the voltage rating of the capacitors? Are they in series? If so, there needs to be balancing resistors to equalize the voltage on each. The chargers I am working on have single 450V capacitors, but the new design has two 2200 uF capacitors in series, each rated 200 VDC. The series connection points should be tied together, and something like 10-20k 5W resistors across each bank. It's a total of about 8000 uF so 20k gives a TC of 160 seconds or 3 minutes. So after 15 minutes most of the charge will bleed off. I plan to add a bleeder resistor of about 1k 20W that will be applied when 12V power is removed, and that will have a TC of 8 seconds and safe to handle in 40 seconds.

It looks like the current limit function may fail if voltage is 420, as that creates a divide by zero condition:


```
absMaxChargerCurrent=min(absMaxChargerCurrent, 80./(1-outV/420));
```

It seems like that also changes the value such that it always becomes lower, unless it is reset elsewhere. I don't really trust that comparator circuit for cutting off the PWM, either. 

Also, I don't see how the current measurement of the battery current relates to the freewheeling diode current. When the PWM is ON, the series IGBT applies voltage to the buck inductor, and its current is applied to the capacitor bank as well as the battery. If an output diode is installed, no current will flow through the sensor until the capacitor bank voltage exceeds the battery voltage and the diode conducts.

Without the output diode, when the battery pack is connected, an essentially unlimited current flows into the capacitors. This current will be in the reverse direction, so it will apply a negative voltage to the "+" input of the comparator. Since it is limited only by a 1k resistor, it might create a latch-up condition or damage. But in any case, shutting off the PWM has no control over the current seen by the sensor. 

There are other places where the maximum current value is calculated:


```
//------------ ensure output power does not exceed other limits
            // output power limit for this session
            maxOutC=min(pwr*charger_efficiency*240/maxOutV, absMaxChargerCurrent);
            // lifetime output power limit 
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, absMaxChargerPower/maxOutV );
            // curb further if user-spec'ed current is less
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, configuration.CC); 
            // finally, input current limit - only for DCinput
#ifdef DCinput
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, MAXinputC*mainsV/maxOutV);
#endif
```
It is initialized here:

```
float maxOutC=0.; 
#ifdef MCC100A
  float absMaxChargerCurrent=100; // 100A rating with high-current output toroid inductor
#else
  #ifdef buck_Ecore
    float absMaxChargerCurrent=40; // 40A default rating with old Ecore inductors
  #else
    float absMaxChargerCurrent=70; // 70A default rating with new toroid inductors
  #endif
#endif
```
This happens at initialization:

```
// start sensor readouts at some value so we can feed the averages
  outV_avg=outV=outV0=readV();
  outC_avg=outC=readC();
  setMaxC(maxOutC*instantMaxCRatio); // need this here before 5 sec delay so the RC net stabilizes
  // for derating
  float maxOutC1=maxOutC;
```
maxOutC1 is also used:

```
maxOutC1=maxOutC*abs(ABSmaxHeatSinkT-normT)/(ABSmaxHeatSinkT-maxHeatSinkT);
```


```
// use small hysteresis (spread*2) to avoid jitter   
    // if current or voltage too LOW, INcrease duty cycle
    if(out1 < CX-spread) {
      // only if we are safe to go up - this is slow protection as it just stops duty from rising
      if(duty<MAXDUTY && outC<maxOutC1) {
        duty++; 
      }
    } else {
      out1Reached=1;
    }
    // if current or voltage too HIGH, DEcrease duty cycle       
    if(out1 > CX || outC>maxOutC1) {
      if(duty>0) {
        duty--;
      }
    }
```
If that seems confusing, it's because it is very inefficient and poorly organized (V12). There is a newer version of the code (V14 or maybe V15), but it really needs a complete remake, as I plan to do.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i made a remake of the capacitor bank and put in a 400A IGBT. Mixed results...
I got up to 18A output at cca 380V and charger started to release screecing noise, like caps couldnt keep up with current. It was only 6kW whereas before charger could put out 10kW no trouble!

I now have 3P2S 2200uF 450V caps on the input, that amounts to 3300uF at 900VDC. I used to have 2S3P 1000uF for 1500uF 900V total and it ran 10kW normally. But now with close to 400VDC all sorts of trouble started to appear. 

Do you think of a thing that could cause this? Maybe loose wire on the input into diode bridge? Hm i will change cables on input today... 

A


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I haven't tried to run either of the chargers I have, at anywhere near full load. I think I will make a low-power board for testing purposes, and I might add a test board to the power board with some safety resistors and test points so I can connect a scope to see what is going on.

A screeching sound may indicate some sort of oscillation which might be caused by feedback, and perhaps because the higher voltage is causing something to break down. Inductors can make sounds like that when they saturate, and that can happen more readily at higher voltages. Measuring the current in the inductor is extremely vital in a switching circuit, and this design has no way to do so. The PFC circuit has a current sense connection, using R5, but with it being just a loop of copper wire, it is non-functional. Can you determine what component is screeching?

It would be most helpful if you could post the schematic for your reworked power board, as well as the layout. Some detailed photos would be good as well, and perhaps a video showing the problems you are experiencing. Ideally, perhaps you can add some test points and look at waveforms with a scope. But you may need to use an isolation transformer and connect an earth ground to the negative or low common rail of the circuit that also goes to battery(-). You might see if you can get one or more Hall Effect current sensors that accept wire through an aperture, and use them to monitor the inductor current with a scope. That will provide isolation as well. 

Here is a 100A sensor for less than $10:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMsPDRSCoHb1X14jKaQcUE8eMrSos68hbNA=

And a larger 125A sensor for about $22:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMsPDRSCoHb1X14jKaQcUE8eTV6Wct/ta3c=

Other ideas:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Current-Sensor-Hall-Effect-100-Amps-AC-DC-/252187452281
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panel-Mount...or-Module-Board-based-on-ACS712-/131517866400
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panel-Mount...sor-Module-Board-based-on-ACS758/371462981595
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HST21-Hall-...0A-500A-4V-15V-DC-20KHZ-UL94-VO-/262184781285
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HK2015-Open...nsor-400A-4V-3000V-RMS-DC-50KHZ-/191303580104


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i finally figured what was causing noise and erratic behaviour of charger. I measured current trough phases and i found phase 1 with 0,4A while other two had 16A!!! No wonder everything was strained. I think contactor had this contact oxidized/glazed and it wouldnt conduct. I tried to sand contacts and i managed to get all three phases working. I will have to get a new contactor though...

EDIT: Well charger works normally now for some weeks. No problems to charge from 3phase. I even made a crude voltage multiplicator by connecting N line to center of input caps to get single phase charging. Voltage from L1 and N rises to 600V quite fast and from here i can charge at cca 6A output. That is cca 12A from AC line. If more fuse starts to chatter and eventually resets. I guess PF from buck leaves sth. to be desired.

A


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't know if Valery is still supporting this product or monitoring the posts, but I just tried the link he provided on the first page of this thread, and it redirects to the EMW home page, which mostly promotes his JuiceBox. I tried a general internet search with no joy, and I could not find any useful links on his website, so it looks like we are "on our own" with this product. I am just about ready to order boards and parts for my retrofit kit, and hopefully I will soon have something to offer.

If you have a good link to the documentation, please post it here. I have downloaded most of it, and some items are already on my web page:

http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/

Let me know if you need any of the files, and I'll upload them for you to access.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Yabert said:


> Thanks a lot. I will try to do something with this and let you know.


Ok, so I tried to change the R53 or R4 resistor as PStech Paul suggested, but without good result.
A friend of mine changed some setting in the Arduino module. He raise the threshold from 3 to 3,5 and the charger now recognize 240v and automatically reduce power on 120v.
I'm happy with this.


But now, *the next problem*. My charger don't work on a J1772 station.
Well, lets explain what happenned.

At the J1772 station, I connect the charging gun, the contactor of the station close (I hear) and my charger turn on, but once the power start to increase the station turn off.
It take maybe 2 seconds after the beginning of the charge and all turn off.
I tried to reduce input and output power, but the same thing happened despite if the power is reduce to 800w.

I can add that in the pass the situation was worst. Nothing happened when I tried to charge at a station.
Since then, I change the the 1K resistor (R36) on the control board for a 2,7K with the above result.

Any clues?
Thanks


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Here is a chart of what is needed for J1772 pilot handshaking:










Note that the 2.74k signals the EVSE that it is "ready", but it needs a 1.4k resistor in parallel to initiate charging. I think there needs to be a delay of a couple seconds between state "B" and state "C". 

Here is a simple circuit that you may be able to kluge on the board that will present the 2.74k resistance and then about 500 mSec later presents the 1.4k in parallel to give the 6V pilot signal requesting the EVSE to initiate charge. This example is for a 50% duty cycle or 30 amp capacity. Note that the MOSFET is a low gate voltage type with Vgto = 1.4V:


----------



## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

has it been 2 years since I was effectively kicked out of my own thread? ;-) I think it's been for the better actually - allowed us to focus on finished product rather than a bunch of kits with assembly issues...

Anyway, the product is alive and well - just not available as a kit anymore. Latest version V16, properly packed and sealed, etc

http://emotorwerks.com/index.php/st...er-fully-assembled-tested/category_pathway-17

Cheers
Val


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You have not been kicked out of your own thread, but its purpose was to provide ongoing support to those with the DIY charger, and there are 100+ of your customers who have various versions of this, and many of them have reported problems. I have helped some of them but it has been difficult given the incomplete and confusing documentation and the difficulty of testing and measuring various signals while the charger is assembled. 

Your sig line has a link that is supposed to direct to the documentation for the original DIY versions, but it now redirects to the home page. I may have some old links to the Google Docs pages where you had some of the files, but otherwise it seems that you have washed your hands of the DIY project and have apparently withdrawn even that modicum of support. 

I wish you success with your new charger and EVSE equipment, and I agree that it may be best to supply a finished and tested unit rather than rely on people with various levels of skill and equipment to build a reliable and safe product. I have offered to help with the design but it seems we got into an argument rather than a cooperative agreement. I'm certainly not looking to compete, but I want to provide whatever help I can to your customers.


----------



## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi. I have v9, I think, and I would like to know: can this charger fail in such a way as to continue to feed current into the battery pack regardless of an EOC condition or a BMS full charge signal? Like a shorted output diode or IGBT or anything?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

If the buck circuit IGBT fails with a short, it will drive essentially unlimited current into the battery pack. There are also other ways for it to fail, of course, like a driver IC shorted to +15V rail.. If you remove the driver PCB from the power board it will eliminate all but the IGBT itself. With all the capacitors fully discharged, you can see if you have a short from C1 to C2E1 of the IGBT.

It might be a good idea to install a fuse or circuit breaker from the output to the battery pack.


----------



## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

It was showing 7A on the output before it even completed its start up sequence. I hope I didn't overcharge previously without knowing it. Once I did notice, I removed the charger and gave the guts a visual inspection. I reinstalled it, and it's acting as it should. I wish I could trust it like I trust my old Elcon.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Rastusmalinus said:


> It was showing 7A on the output before it even completed its start up sequence. I hope I didn't overcharge previously without knowing it. Once I did notice, I removed the charger and gave the guts a visual inspection. I reinstalled it, and it's acting as it should. I wish I could trust it like I trust my old Elcon.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Well i would absolutely NOT install charger without fuse in a car! There are less expensive ways to start a fire...
On the other hand you could remove IGBT and test it according to this video. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbeTKHzm6_g
You leave light on for a minute or so to check if gate capacitor is ok.

Once i got a partialy opened IGBT on startup. Fuses blew and that was that... I checked IGBT and i found gate couldnt hold charge. It must got damaged somehow, but IGBT still worked...unless loaded heavily.
If you use those inrush limiters you cant see the real danger because those limiters are doing the work for the IGBT while heating up.
Try to use a proper precharge resistor/relay for AC side and a diode on output. Use D4 or D5 pins to trigger 12V relay. Circuit is online but if you need additional help PM me.

Hope you have healthy IGBT


----------



## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

I may do that with the AC side. I do have a fuse, but it's 30 or 40 amps, so if something happened that still allowed some current to the output after it thinks it's charged, it could still be a substantial amount going into a charged battery. 30A ain't exactly a trickle charge! Maybe I could have the BMS shut down the power to the AC side.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

Would it be possible modify this charger to use as a welder?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Modify it to use as a welder? Offhand I would say no. It is limited to about 60 amps, which is rather wimpy for a welder, and it is not isolated from the line, which is dangerous. You can buy a very good welder for under $1000, while the charger (if working properly) is worth more like $2000.


----------



## Williamws3 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello Valery, It has also been two years since I built one of your V12 chargers from your kit, following your instructions as closely as possible,. The charger would not energize and as there were no troubleshooting instructions, I sent the unit to PS Paul a year ago -- he has looked at it but has not had time yet to troubleshoot it completely. 

I congratulate you on getting the V16 unit into production as a complete unit, not a DIY product. Have you given any thought to giving refunds to those of us who believed your 'you can build it yourself' description of the kit? I consider myself to be a skilled fabricator, with good mechanical and electrical skills but I am not a software or electronics engineer which is what the kit required. 



valerun said:


> has it been 2 years since I was effectively kicked out of my own thread? ;-) I think it's been for the better actually - allowed us to focus on finished product rather than a bunch of kits with assembly issues...
> 
> Anyway, the product is alive and well - just not available as a kit anymore. Latest version V16, properly packed and sealed, etc
> 
> ...


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

At the very least, I think, Valery should offer a trade-in for the charger kit, applying the cost of the major components toward a new complete and tested unit. I am assuming that the design is still very similar, and it appears to be in the same enclosure:



















Those are the pictures on the EMW website:
http://emotorwerks.com/store-juiceb...bled-and-tested-emw-smartcharge-12000-charger

However, if there is such an offer, I would first demand a set of schematics and source code for the firmware. There was a rather major design change as of V14 and I have previously pointed out some serious issues in that design. If those issues have not been adequately resolved, I would steer clear of the EMW charger. It seems that most of the website is now devoted to the JuiceBox EVSE, and all the documentation for the charger has been removed, so there is no longer ANY support for those who have built the kits.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Anyone knows how to convince charger to work without LCD. I had the second LCD quit on me nad frankly i dont need 80€ LCD crap to run every day.
I am thinking of using two remaining arduino pins and 3 position switch to signal charger if i want to reduce charge. Ie charger is on full 30A in first position. If i switch to second position charger goes to 20A and third 10A! At 360VDC this would mean 9kW, 4,5kW and 3,5kW charging. 

But first i have to convince charger LCD is allways ON.

Anyone?


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think you can run the charger using the serial port, probably most easily done with a Bluetooth module and a tablet or laptop running a serial comm app like ttermpro.exe. The firmware checks for presence of the display and should switch to serial comm if not found. The display may need to be physically removed for serial comm to work.

Hopefully I'll be able to get back to working on my retrofit for the charger pretty soon. I have extra PCBs for the prototype and perhaps I can send one to you. It should be mostly compatible with the charger, and it uses a much cheaper display module. I have posted schematics and other information on my thread about troubleshooting and repair of this charger. 

I just checked USPS mailing to Slovenia and it is $13.50 up to 8 ounces. Please let me know if this would help. I can supply some of the SMD parts. It would be good to have someone help with field testing of this retrofit.

Here is the firmware that determines presence of the LCD module:


```
//================= initialize the display ===========================================
#ifdef LCD_SPE
  *myLCD=uLCD_144_SPE(9600);
#else
  *myLCD=uLCD_144(9600);
#endif
  //================= finish display init ==============================================
  
  // check if the display started / is present
  // if not present, we will assume that the charger is controlled by serial data instead
  LCD_on=myLCD->isAlive();
```
The function isAlive() is defined in uLCD_144_SPE as follows:


```
//==================================== SCREEN FUNCTION LIBRARY ========================
//-------------- define all function members ----------    
uLCD_144_SPE::uLCD_144_SPE(int baud) {
  Serial.flush();
   
  delay(3000);
  
  Serial.begin(baud);

   // clr screen here - do NOT call function as we need to get an Ack here 
  Serial.print((char)0xFF);
  Serial.print((char)0xD7);

  isAlive_=waitAck();
}

int uLCD_144_SPE::isAlive() {
  return isAlive_;
```


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

TNX
Yes i could use serial port, but i would have to use a phone or other bluetooth device....
Huh, i could just use another arduino wire it to serial port program it to output to TX/RX and use it to work as intermediary...

On the other hand my friend still has display and i can use it to program charger and then simulate LCD is alive . 

so i said... 

LCDon=true;

then LCD thinks it is always present. However when i tried this, charger went in some limp mode and wouldnt put more than 2kW out. Also there were some strange sounds involved!!!

I think *myLCD function is involved every time something is changed on screen. How could i make function return "is alive" every time charger queries about *myLCD?

tnx


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It seems that the isAlive() function merely returns the value of isAlive_ which is set during the display initialization routine. Thereafter, I think the firmware uses its own LCD_on variable which is set just after initializing.

However, I noticed that the configuration steps are skipped if LCD_on is FALSE:


```
if(LCD_on) {  
    myLCD->clrScreen();
    myLCD->setOpacity(1);
  } else {
    state=STATE_DONE; // skip config altogether if no LCD
  }
```
So there is no way to do calibration or set such parameters as:

const byte STATE_BT = 0x0;
const byte STATE_CV = 0x1;
const byte STATE_CELLS = 0x2;
const byte STATE_CONFIRM = 0x3;
const byte STATE_CAPACITY = 0x4;
const byte STATE_CALIBRATE = 0x5; // sensitivity calibration only. zero point calibration done automatically on power-on

The serial mode operates as follows:


```
case STATE_SERIALCONTROL:
          // serial control of the charger is enabled
          configuration.mainsC=200; // remove limit on input side
          sprintf(str, "READY:C%d,V%d,E", maxOutC, maxOutV);
          EMWserialMsg(str);
          delay(500); // wait for command to start

          // listen to commands       
          // format of the command: McccvvvE
          cmd[0]=cmd[1]=0; // reset all
          readSerialCmd(cmd);
          
          if(cmd[0]>0 && cmd[1]>0) {
            // echo reception
            sprintf(str, "ECHO:%d,%d,E", cmd[0], cmd[1]);
            EMWserialMsg(str);
            configuration.CC=cmd[0];
            maxOutV=cmd[1];     
            // move to charge stat
            state=STATE_CHARGE;
          }
          break;
```
I don't quite understand how this command works. It appears to ask for a command in the form "McccvvvE" and then it uses readSerialCmd(cmd); to get cmd[0] and cmd[1]. [edit] Actually format seems to be "M,ccc,vvv,E". So I suppose you can set maximum current and maximum voltage this way. Then it goes to STATE_CHARGE:


```
case STATE_CHARGE:
            pwr=configuration.mainsC; 
            // curb power on 110VAC
#ifdef drop110power            
            // 110VAC=160VDC rectified, 220VAC=320VDC - 240VDC is a midpoint in non-PFC
            // 165VDC is a midpoint in PFC version. Use below midpoint between 240 and 160 = 180
            if(mainsV<180) { 
              pwr/=2; // later, pwr is assumed to be a 220VAC-equivalent current
              pwr=min(pwr, 9.); // equivalent 15A from 110VAC // DEBUG
  #ifndef PFC              
              if(mainsV>minMains) {
                // protection against faulty mains reading
                // close 110VAC relay for doubler to operate
                digitalWrite(pin_110relay, HIGH); 
                delay(1000);
              }
  #endif
            }
#endif            
            //------------ ensure output power does not exceed other limits
            // output power limit for this session
            maxOutC=min(pwr*charger_efficiency*240/maxOutV, absMaxChargerCurrent);
            // lifetime output power limit 
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, absMaxChargerPower/maxOutV );
            // curb further if user-spec'ed current is less
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, configuration.CC); 
            // finally, input current limit - only for DCinput
#ifdef DCinput
            maxOutC=min(maxOutC, MAXinputC*mainsV/maxOutV);
#endif

            // write out the configuration to EEPROM for next time
            EEPROM_writeAnything(0, configuration);
  
            timer_ch=millis(); // set the timer
            
            //========================== MAIN RUN CHARGER FUNCTION=======================
            // by this point, at least 15sec have passed since AC connection
            //                and at least 10sec since battery connection
            //                therefore, all caps should be pre-charged => close relays
            //   (note: this requires precharge resistors across relays - MAX of 300R for inrelay
            //          and MAX of 1k for outrelay. >3W power rating. Place small 1000V diode in
            //          series with the outrelay resistor - anode to battery - to avoid precharge on
            //          reverse polarity connection)     
            digitalWrite(pin_inrelay, HIGH);
            digitalWrite(pin_outrelay, HIGH);

            // initialize timer here - this way will reset every time when returning from no-mains break
            Timer1.initialize(period); 
            Timer1.pwm(pin_PWM, 0);           
            Timer1.pwm(pin_maxC, 0);           
           
            // reset AH counter
            AH_charger=0;
           
            // reset the EOC pin (this pin is active LOW so reset means setting to HIGH) 
            // high means charging is commencing. this will be pulled down by the charger when charge ends
            digitalWrite(pin_EOC, HIGH); 
              
            if(configuration.battType==0) {
              //---------------- CCCV for LiFePo4 or LiPoly --------------------
              // CC step, end condition - voltage goes to CV
              if(!runChargeStep(1, round(maxOutC), 1, maxOutV)) {
                // CV step
                runChargeStep(2, maxOutV, 2, configuration.AH*min_CV_Crating);
              }
            }
            
 #ifdef NiXX  
            if(configuration.battType==1) {
              //---------------- CC with dVdt termination for NiMh --------------------
              // CC step, end condition - dVdt goes below pre-determined value
              runChargeStep(1, round(maxOutC), 3, dVdt_stop);
            }
 #endif 
                    
            digitalWrite(pin_fan, LOW);    
            digitalWrite(pin_EOC, LOW); // active low

  
            printClrMsg(MSG_DONE, 500, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0);
            if(LCD_on) {
              sprintf(str, "%dAH in", int(AH_charger)); 
              myLCD->printStr(0, 6, 2, 0x1f, 0x3f, 0x1f, str);      
              charger_run=1; // charger has run this mains cycle...
              state = STATE_SHUTDOWN; //STATE_TOP_MENU;   
            } else {
              sprintf(str, "%dAH", int(AH_charger)); 
              EMWserialMsg(str);
              charger_run=0; // in serial command mode, we would not prevent running again
              state = STATE_SERIALCONTROL; // ready for next run   
            }
            
            digitalWrite(pin_inrelay, LOW);
            digitalWrite(pin_outrelay, LOW);
            //===========================================================================

           break;
```
I won't pretend to understand that convoluted code, but it jest seems to enter a looping function:


```
int runChargeStep(int cycleType, float CX, int stopType, float stopValue)
```
I guess it must work, but the coding is very difficult to comprehend, much less modify or maintain.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Hi guys,

I have V14 of this product. I am having no output on U7. It also gets warm/hot. Any ideas? P.S. - DC/DC converter tanks. Comes back after IC removal. I have tried a few IC's. Same problem every time.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Also, any have some code to calibrate unit over serial? I can write some code if people wish.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Removing the zener "TVS" diode arrangement fixed the output Control stage. PFC is down though. I did replace the chip, it looks like a PWM is coming out of it. Maybe IGBT done?


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Here is a heavily modified version of the code that includes serial commands for all LCD controls. Arguably a lot easier to use as well. ( I hated the button system) Note: untested yet, I ran the serial system threw its paces but not on the charger just yet. *Run At Your Own Risk*. 

To activate console, push green button in at charger startup ( within 5 seconds). Else it will default to normal serial console mode. 

https://github.com/uazipsev/EV16/tree/master/VMcharger-rightone/VMCharger_V14_7


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for doing this work. I'll take a look and see if there is anything I can use for my retrofit project. I'm busy with other things now but may soon get back to working on it.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

I found a bug, I need to fix it yet.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi

Yesterday i got brave and i put V14 code to my V12 hardware! It works very good. I can run at 11kW and temp was 51°C with outside temp at 26°C! 

Main thing for me was to setup all ports the V12 way. I even made code work with Allegro_050U sensor! 
However two things still elude me.

1. I dont know how to decrease amps with NC loop. I did this with V12 and it worked great. Do you have any suggestion? See attached V12 (line 1202 to 1208) and my V14 code (line 1456 to 1462). 

Originaly i made a division of maxOutC which in turn reduced output whenever BMS comannded so. But with V14 i am not able to do so... Can you help?

2. Serial port trough another chip. I would like to calibrate charrger using my uLCD and then disconnect it and drive charger trough 4 button interface. 1st maxA 2nd maxA/2 and 3rd maxA/3 4th makes charger stop.
Until now i put another arduino in but i am having trouble with EMI that keeps messing with my button ports.

So can i use your code then?


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok here is code V12 and V14. I had to rename file extensions to get it posted. Just change to .rar in the end of files.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It looks like your BMS derating in V14 is located inside the thermal management block, so will not do anything unless heat sink temperature exceeds the maximum allowed. In V12 this derating is after the thermal management block.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Ok here is code V12 and V14. I had to rename file extensions to get it posted. Just change to .rar in the end of files.


here, rar named as pdf is a little sadistic  I've attached the rar contents as zips. But thank you all the same arber!


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

The bug has been slayed in the code! It is working for me OK. *HAS NOT BEEN TESTED IN A CHARGER! USE AT OWN RISK!*


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

arber333 said:


> Hi
> 
> Yesterday i got brave and i put V14 code to my V12 hardware! It works very good. I can run at 11kW and temp was 51°C with outside temp at 26°C!
> 
> ...


My code? It works as a prelim calibrator. I can't stand the screen interface. You also can set CC and CV over the serial interface (pre existing code). If you want to use buttons I am sure that is possible. I think you are seeing debouncing issues more than anything.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The buttons should have small capacitors across them to reduce EMI sensitivity. I would suggest about 10-50 nF.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

This works good:


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Problem is that the EMW control boards (at least Ver 12-13) use a 10k pull-down resistor and the switches are connected to Vcc. It may be good practice to use the 10 ohm resistor to reduce the discharge current in the switch, but it's probably not necessary.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

V14 is the same


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes? So i could calibrate only with laptop? That is great. I will try it in my charger. I just have to modify my preferences and resistor values. 
I use allegro 050U sensor and it works fine up to cca 40A which is 16kW for me! 

Ok yesterday i fiddled some more with ports and they work now. I use 4 button interface. Arduino after 25s delay starts charger with 25A string. 
After that we can choose between sw1 30A, sw2 20A and sw3 10A. Sw4 is there only to shutoff charger. Code works in the car and i suspect i could connect other stuff as well - BMS, GPRS module, bluetooth etc... 

Well here is the simple code for the second arduino. This time i try with zip.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Ah, since i know some of you have lots of programming experience...

is it possible to send serial string in code to itself? Like if BMS would break NC loop, arduino would sense it and order itself some power level. Can it be done inside code or do i have to use intermediary?

Currently i want to trigger maxoutc lowering to some 5A for final 5% SOC. I dont charge to full, just some 4.05V per cell since i notice huge cell Ri when over 4V. I dont balance them anymore, but it seems healthier to stop at some 90% SOC.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

arber333 said:


> Ah, since i know some of you have lots of programming experience...
> 
> is it possible to send serial string in code to itself? Like if BMS would break NC loop, arduino would sense it and order itself some power level. Can it be done inside code or do i have to use intermediary?
> 
> Currently i want to trigger maxoutc lowering to some 5A for final 5% SOC. I dont charge to full, just some 4.05V per cell since i notice huge cell Ri when over 4V. I dont balance them anymore, but it seems healthier to stop at some 90% SOC.


You could monitor a pin status and change output then. Just like the buttons.


----------



## dcb (Dec 5, 2009)

arber333 said:


> Ah, since i know some of you have lots of programming experience...
> 
> is it possible to send serial string in code to itself? Like if BMS would break NC loop, arduino would sense it and order itself some power level. Can it be done inside code or do i have to use intermediary?


just curious, so you have a bms that sends this info over uart? It certainly is possible to receive it in that case, though if said bms has a pin level output for cc and one for cv that would probably be more bulletproof. If not, then post a link to the technical details of the bms and we'll gladly take a look.


----------



## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well yes, but i wanted to take out midlleman arduino in case something goes wrong. But as i was checking code i found serial has a checksum and is very difficult to trigger unintentionally. 

Main problem is digital amp drop. BMS signal is digital. In old software when cell went over 4V maxoutc would get lower. It would happen gradually over time and cells would respond and control loop worked as analog system. 
Now V14 if i command 5A i get exactly that in the course of a second... If i do that from 25A cells would bounce back and next second i get 25A again! And back and forth... That is why i want to find a way to put an equasion that would lower current gradually. I dont know how to do that with new PID loop.

My BMS is adapted Nevilles BMS with quite modified code for LiPo cells
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forums/low-cost-bms_topic2753.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/low-cost-bms-18060-13.html
https://mazdamx3ev.wordpress.com/tag/bms/

A


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

I didn't find much on the BMS but a signal would work. What does the signal out of the bms do?


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Also the "checksum" isn't a good one but it does the business and can be calculated in the head so that is nice.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I don't see a checksum in the code, but perhaps you mean the command syntax requiring an initial 'M' character:


```
// message TO the charger via serial
// command syntax: M,xxx,yyy,E
void readSerialCmd(int *cmd_) {
  if(Serial.available()>0) {
    if(Serial.read()=='M') {
      // this is a legit command
      Serial.read(); // dispose of comma
      str[0]=Serial.read();
      str[1]=Serial.read();
      str[2]=Serial.read();
      str[3]=0;
      cmd_[0]=atoi(str);
      Serial.read(); // dispose of comma
      str[0]=Serial.read();
      str[1]=Serial.read();
      str[2]=Serial.read();
      str[3]=0;
      cmd_[1]=atoi(str);
      Serial.read(); // dispose of comma
      if(Serial.read()!='E') {
        cmd_[0]=cmd_[1]=0;
      }
    }
  }
}
```
This code may cause a problem if an incorrect command string is read (first character NOT 'M'). The remaining characters will be in the serial buffer next time the function is called, so it will fail every time it is called, until a correct command is received. This function should be of type Boolean, so it can be determined if it was successful, and if an incorrect command is detected, it should flush the buffer. 

The "readSerialCmd()" function is called in the "case STATE_SERIALCONTROL:" block of the "loop()" section, as well as the "isBtnPressed()" function. This function is called in the beginning of the "loop()" section as well as in the "Main Charger Routine" (two places). This is probably not a problem with the digital input for the button press, but the serial port is different in that, once read, the buffer is empty and subsequent reads will return nothing. This may or may not be a problem, but it seems that these loops have considerable delays built in that are "blocking functions", and I'm not sure if there are active ISRs to provide critical processing of inputs for the PID loop. The only ISRs I found are in the Timer1 and SoftwareSerial libraries.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

They have two ISRs. One is timer one and the second is ADC. Timer one ISR runs the PID if I remember. This fcn would actually clear out the buffer if there was a error. Every time there is a read, it removes a char off the ring buffer. So even if there was a misalignment it would eventually clear itself out.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

richcj10 said:


> They have two ISRs. One is timer one and the second is ADC. Timer one ISR runs the PID if I remember. This fcn would actually clear out the buffer if there was a error. Every time there is a read, it removes a char off the ring buffer. So even if there was a misalignment it would eventually clear itself out.


The timer ISR is only used to set the PWM period, which is done within the control loops. There may be an ADC ISR, but all analog readings in the code are done with analogRead(), which I think has considerable time overhead.

Yes, the serial read function will eventually clear the buffer, but it will take a considerable amount of time. That could be a problem if you needed to send a command to shut down the PWM, especially in a noisy environment where spurious data might appear on RxD.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Nope.....

He reads the value in the ISR:


```
// we should ALWAYS have the result! 
ISR(ADC_vect) { // Analog->Digital Conversion Complete
  byte ul, uh;
  cli(); // disable interrupt until function exit. otherwise nested interrupts...
  ul=ADCL;
  uh=ADCH;
  sei();
  
  unsigned int val= (uh << 8 | ul); // assuming ADLAR=0
  
  // just load things into the variables and exit interrupt - processing all in main loop
  // for most variable, average 2 values offset 180 degrees wrt haversine wave
  // for current measurement, average 16 measurements over 8ms, or one full haversine period
  switch(ADMUX & B00000111) {
```
This is much faster and NOT blocking.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

And PID loop is in the Timer1 ISR:


```
//====================   PID loop   ====================
          // remember that targetC is a 10-bit ADC reference point that we are trying to keep - NOT the actual current!
          pids_err = targetC_ADC - outC_ADC; 
  #ifdef NEG_CSENSE
          pids_err *= -1; // the current signal (and hence the error sign) runs in a different direction
  #endif        
          
          deltaDuty = pids_Kp * pids_err;
      
          pids_i += pids_err;
          deltaDuty += pids_Ki * pids_i;
      
          pids_d = pids_err - pids_perr;
          pids_perr = pids_err;
          deltaDuty += pids_Kd * pids_d;
          //==================== end PID loop ====================
          
          // protect against overpowering
          if( (deltaDuty>0) && (outC > 1.1*maxOutC) ) deltaDuty=0;
          
          milliduty += deltaDuty;
          if(milliduty < 0) {
            milliduty=0;
            // stop accumulation
            pids_i=0;
          }
          if(milliduty > MAXDMILLIDUTY) {
            milliduty=MAXDMILLIDUTY;
            // stop error accumulation
            if(pids_i>0) pids_i=0;
          }
  
          // immediate protection from overvoltage - zero out duty
          // this also stops any term's accumulation before PWM_enable_ is turned on (e.g. before charger start)
          if( (PWM_enable_ == 0) || (outV > 1.05*maxOutV) ) {
            milliduty=0;
            pids_i=0; // need to stop accumulation, as well
            // this is an emergency so stop all PWM
            PWM_enable_=0;
          }
          
          Timer1.setPwmDuty(pin_PWM, milliduty/10000);
```


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

That case switch statement will actually run really fast. There is no blocking calls in the loop it runs in its self. So, depending how much chars are in the ring buffer, it can be cleared fast. He is trying to do a byte alignment and that is standard practice.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Ooops!  I had an old version in my editor, and I was looking at that. There is a #define VerStr "V14.7" but it's on line 59 so it's easy to miss. The old version has #define V12_nonPFC on line 71. It's a good idea to identify the version on one of the first lines of code. 

So, it looks like this code is a significant improvement!

[edit] I found something that might be a problem. The ISR(ADC_vect) disables interrupts on entry but then enables them when the ADC values have been read into the local ul and uh bytes. I think the Arduino framework disables interrupts by default on entry into an ISR, and disables them upon exit. It uses the functions "interrupts()" and "nointerrupts()" which are probably equivalent to ei() and di(). 

See: http://homediyelectronics.com/projects/arduino/arduinotimerinterruptexample/

And: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=45239.0

[edit2] Something else that does not seem quite right is the current reading routine in the ISR:

```
case pin_C: { // this is measured at 2kHz frequency
     if(outC_ADC==0) {
       outC_ADC_f=outC_ADC=val;
     } else {
       // 16 cycles is 8ms here or a full haversine period
       outC_ADC_f=(outC_ADC_f*15+val)/16; // this emulates an RC filter with time constant of ~half of averaged periods
       outC_ADC=int(outC_ADC_f);
     }
     break;
```
In the old code, it used a "rolling average":

```
outC=readC(); // every cycle
    outC_avg=(outC_avg*(nSamplesStopVar-1)+outC)/nSamplesStopVar; // moving average
    outV=readV();
    outV_avg=(outV_avg*(nSamplesStopVar-1)+outV)/nSamplesStopVar; // moving average
```


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

Agreed, I have been thinking of taking this code and moving it to Atmel studio. It isn't far from embedded C. He only uses a few Arduino helper fcns. This should allow for better documentation and commenting. As well as multiple files instead of one realllllllllly long one.....I can't stand how long it is. But that is Arduino's fault.


----------



## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

PStechPaul said:


> [edit] I found something that might be a problem. The ISR(ADC_vect) disables interrupts on entry but then enables them when the ADC values have been read into the local ul and uh bytes. I think the Arduino framework disables interrupts by default on entry into an ISR, and disables them upon exit. It uses the functions "interrupts()" and "nointerrupts()" which are probably equivalent to ei() and di().
> 
> See: http://homediyelectronics.com/projects/arduino/arduinotimerinterruptexample/
> 
> ...


That may be for its own ( Arduino wrapper) interrupts but not when your using bare metal programming. (like using ADC ISR - Arduino dosn't support) 
Both current readings is a standard weighted average. They are the same. plug nSamplesStopVar = 16 and they become the same calculation.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm still not fully conversant with the Arduino environment, and now I see that you have used "attachInterrupt()" for the timer, but ISR(ADC_vect) for the ADC. To do that, I also see that you have set up the ADC here:


```
// ADC enable, ADC start, manual trigger mode, ADC interrupt enable, prescaler = 128 (3 bits in the end)
  // standard prescaler is 128 resulting in 125kHz ADC clock. 1 conversion takes 13 ADC cycles = 100uS using standard prescaler
  // 64 prescaler results in ~50uS conversion time
  ADCSRA = B11001111;
```
I just checked the Atmel AVR AtMega328 documentation, and found this:



> When an interrupt occurs, the Global Interrupt Enable I-bit is cleared and all interrupts are disabled. The user software can write logic one to the I-bit to enable nested interrupts. All enabled interrupts can then interrupt the current interrupt routine. The I-bit is automatically set when a Return from Interrupt instruction – RETI – is executed.


So, you do not need to use cli(). But my main objection is that you have sei() before the ISR completes its most important processing:

unsigned int val= (uh << 8 | ul); // assuming ADLAR=0

Even that is just a local variable. The globals are set in the switch structure. Granted, the next interrupt will probably not occur for several hundred machine cycles, and the ISR should be done by then. 

It is also generally not good practice to have floating point operations in an ISR, as they can have a lot of overhead. It is actually not necessary to use floating point ( float outC_ADC_f=0 for the averaging operations. A much more accurate and faster method is to use a 16 bit integer to make a total of 16 samples of 10 bits each (for 14 bits), and update the average value every time 16 samples have been read. The result has a precision of 14 bits, although certainly not 61 PPM accuracy. An external conversion to floating point can be done as needed for display purposes, but otherwise integer values for everything is more efficient.

If you want faster response to a sudden increase or decrease in current, you can trip setpoints in the ISR based on a single sample.


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## richcj10 (Aug 22, 2016)

You are stating I wrote the ISR ADC code and I did not. But the most important thing is to get values out of hardware and on stack space in software. The Timer1 is still running in the background. That always should have higher priority. 

I agree that we could speed up the charger by removing floating point but there really is no need. Charging is a really slow and the environment is really analog.
He has the code check for IO changes quite quickly.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Sorry. But perhaps you made some changes to the code originally written by Collin Kidder:

https://github.com/collin80/VMCharger

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546857&highlight=VMCharger#post546857

It would be helpful to add your name to the top of the file and perhaps a version number with brief explanation of additions or changes. I certainly don't mean to be critical, except to add suggestions from my POV. 

So, if you want to allow the timer ISR to interrupt the ADC ISR, perhaps the ADC interrupt enable could be disabled to avoid re-entrance, and then set the Global Interrupt Enable flag in the Status Register to allow the timer ISR to operate.

Sometimes it is also useful to set a global flag at ISR entry, and reset it when complete. You can put a test for the flag in the interrupt to detect an attempted re-entry, and perhaps signal an error somewhere.

Hopefully this newer firmware will help people with this charger. I am still working on a hardware retrofit that may be able to use at least some of this firmware. You are doing a great job. Thanks!

[edit] Just for reference, here are a couple of links about Arduino interrupts:

http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=172937.0

http://letsmakerobots.com/node/28278


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

richcj10 said:


> I didn't find much on the BMS but a signal would work. What does the signal out of the bms do?


There are two signals out of master PCB. Both are open collector type and i set them up using optocouplers. When any cell reaches balancing value second port is activated so charging is reduced. 
When any cell reaches maximum value first port is activated and charger is shutoff. 

So basically i use first O/P to form NC loop with charger pin_EOC and pin_BMS in order to shutoff charger. 
Second O/P to form NC loop with pin_fan and pin_110relay. When connection is cut charger should reduce...

Used to work so that while cells reached balancing value current slowly reduced from 25A to 5A since cells were kept at balancing value. Hysteresis was automatic. Now when i reduce charge from 25A to 5A there is immidiate cell drop in voltage and charger jumps again to 25A and then cells jump in voltage etc... 
I would like some gradual reduction in current or i will just program charger to reduce to 5A one time and thats it! It may take longer time to charge then...

One thing with serial control vs uLCD is the CC CV phase. With LCD control charger enters CV phase and current is reduced... with serial current is kept in CC phase until charger just ends. But cells bounce down a bit so they are not full just yet. Have you also noticed that?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi Paul

I have prepared 4 button interface with another Arduino pro mini and now i can select 6 charger magnitudes 5A, 10A, 15A, 20A, 25A and 30A and of course STOP button. 
This works all good and well... however i also want some indication where charger is at the moment. I imagined the easiest way to achieve is with LED bar. So i put together 5 LED diodes and i want to control them using analog LED bar code here https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BarGraph.
Instead of analog signal i want to control LEDs with current reporting in serial signal string from charger. 
I dont know how to find the exact value (Cxx) inside serial string that charger spits out and compare it so i could light LEDs proportionally. 

Can you help me with that?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

You can use the Arduino "String Substring(int start, end)" function to extract the current. 

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/StringSubstring

Then you would need to use "tInt" to get the corresponding value as integer, or possible use "atoi()". For float, use "atof();

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18200035/how-do-you-convert-a-string-to-a-float-or-int


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well i tried and it worked on my desk yesterday! I put together "string.readstring", "substring" and "toint" functions to get the current from chargers string. Then i used "LED bar" function and set it on a scale from 0 to 30. Setup worked standalone with me transmitting serial string such as M,R:M600,V-59,c020,v357,E or varying c010, c015 etc... 
Then i added 4 button interface and again it worked... How come that when i connected everything to charger it wouldnt start. It even wouldnt accept any serial commands. Is it possible that charger serial reporting is overwhelming the code?

Here is the .ino file. Yes some functions are more for 1.6 code, so i have updated.

EDIT: I have tried to give second arduino constant data (simulating charger constant reporting) and it seems as long as it receives serial it cant do anything else. And charger is allways transmitting! You have any proposal on how to solve this?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I'm not really sure, but when anything is available in the serial buffer, the loop enters the processing portion, where it uses readString(). I'm not sure how the function determines that it is a proper string. If it is analogous to readLn, it would read until a newline (CR) character is received, but otherwise if a steady stream of characters is being received, it may just hang. Otherwise, it may wait until it times out (there is a setTimeout function). You might be able to use "readStringUntil(CR)".

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/StreamReadStringUntil
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/StreamSetTimeout
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Serial/ReadString

The EMW charger parses the input by reading the first byte 'M' and end byte 'E' to verify that it is a valid input string. 

Also, your digitalRead() inputs are contained within the Serial.available() block, so the buttons won't do anything unless the serial port is receiving.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I see...
I will use readStringUntil since EMW uses terminator seemingly for just that purpose. 

Also i put buttons out of Serial.available() loop, but still no joy. I will first try to use the Until function, then add Buttons and finally use LED bar function.

tnx

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Keep in mind that the readStringUntil() function has a timeout with default of 1000 mSec. Also, without a specific and unique start and end character, the communications could get out of sync. If there is a steady stream of characters with only a short break between strings, the digitalRead() of the button states will occur only after the serial read block terminates, and then it will only process the button states if it detects a valid combination. 

You are using a high logic state for the buttons, so I assume you have a sufficient pull-down resistor to hold the pin at logic low when not pressed. It is more common to use pull-ups on logic pins (you can use the Arduino's selectable internal pull-ups), and use logic low as an active pin state. This enhances noise immunity and has other benefits.

There is also a possibility of processing a single keypress as multiples. If there is no serial data available, a valid button combination will wait for the delay, and if the logic states are still valid, the serial port will send the data. This will probably be a very short time, especially if it uses an output buffer. So then the main loop will continue, and if serial data is still not available, the button read routine will run again. Depending on the combination and the delay, the data will be sent every 150 or 650 mSec. A delay of perhaps 1000 mSec after each button read may help. Or you can wait until the buttons are all released before continuing the loop.

HTH


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

PStechPaul said:


> Depending on the combination and the delay, the data will be sent every 150 or 650 mSec. A delay of perhaps 1000 mSec after each button read may help. Or you can wait until the buttons are all released before continuing the loop.
> 
> HTH


Yes i figured as much. But i have 7 "buttons" to use. That means 3 ways to press 2 buttons together. That requires that each double press registers faster than single press. Hence i can put 1s delay on single button press and 0,5s on double button press. Hm the idea of interrupting void on button press is valid. I can run with that.

A


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It seems you have four physical buttons, so you could have 15 unique combinations of buttons. It might be better to represent them as a 4 bit "nybble" with values of 0 to 15, and use that in a case statement. But it sounds like you want to implement single and double clicks, which may be more difficult to accomplish. 

For single buttons, you would have binary values of:

0001 = 1
0010 = 2
0100 = 4
1000 = 8

With two buttons pressed simultaneously, you add:

0011 = 3
0101 = 5
0110 = 6
1001 = 9
1010 = 10
1100 = 12

So that is 10 unique states using only one or two fingers. Here is the code for your button reading:


```
// read the state of the pushbutton value:
  button1 = digitalRead(buttonPin1);
  button2 = digitalRead(buttonPin2);
  button3 = digitalRead(buttonPin3);
  button4 = digitalRead(buttonPin4);
   
  // check if the pushbutton is pressed.
  // if it is, the buttonState is HIGH:
  if (button1 == HIGH && button2 != HIGH) {
    delay(650);
  if (button1 == HIGH && button2 != HIGH) {
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,030,402,432,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}}

  if (button1 == HIGH && button2 == HIGH) {
    delay(150);
    if (button1 == HIGH && button2 == HIGH) {  
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,025,402,427,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}}

  if (button1 != HIGH && button2 == HIGH && button3 != HIGH) {
    delay(650);
    if (button1 != HIGH && button2 == HIGH && button3 != HIGH) {  
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,020,402,422,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}}

  if (button2 == HIGH && button3 == HIGH) {
    delay(150);
    if (button2 == HIGH && button3 == HIGH) {  
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,015,402,417,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}}

  if (button2 != HIGH && button3 == HIGH && button4 != HIGH) {
    delay(650);
    if (button2 != HIGH && button3 == HIGH && button4 != HIGH) {  
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,010,402,412,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}}

  if (button3 == HIGH && button4 == HIGH) {
    delay(150);
    if (button3 == HIGH && button4 == HIGH) {  
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,005,402,407,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}}

  if (button3 != HIGH && button4 == HIGH) {
    delay(650);
    if (button3 != HIGH && button4 == HIGH) {   
  // print it out in many formats:
  Serial.print("M,001,000,001,E");       // print as an ASCII-encoded decimal

}
}
```
This seems confusing because of the conditions such as:


```
if (button3 != HIGH && button4 == HIGH)
```
If button3 != HIGH then it is not pressed, so I see no reason to include it. To be thorough, you would also need to include the states of button1 and button2. Perhaps you are trying to avoid reading two different combinations due to the multiple "if" statements. That might better be accomplished by using a "case" statement or a "if - then - else" block so that the first valid combination avoids subsequent state testing.


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## guimer84 (Mar 13, 2016)

Hi, I´m new on diy, i´m from Argentina, and i have a big problem, my IGBT´s (FGY75N60SMD) shortcut it self, and i realy dont know why, i want to post my charger so you see what i´m doing. Do you have a diagram of the power block of the charger. I´m working with a PIC18f45k20. 

thanks verry much 

Guillermo


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

The charger that is the subject of this thread uses an Arduino Pro Mini as the processor. You must have something quite different. But here is the schematic for the V12 power board:










You should start another thread with the details of your particular charger, and perhaps someone can help.


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## somecdnguy4 (Sep 28, 2016)

https://emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics is a broken link. Is the project still open source?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

AFAIK Valery has abandoned the project, and apparently has "burned the bridges" behind him. I am still trying to work on a better retrofit as well as perhaps a complete rebuild that might salvage some of the more expensive components, at least the IGBTs and inductors, and perhaps the large capacitors. My designs will be open source, although the schematics and PCB files will be in PADS2004sp2 format.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well you can get newest files here. V14 code and PCBs. Looks like it works as DCDC as well. 
V14 code works for me and is much more precise than V12. I even setup a serial button interface to work without expensive uLCD. 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8zi8eqgqJWocEtzd1hWem1yZVE


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

wow 299 pages.... where is the meat of the info? I want to look at how to build my own charger.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Much of the discussion has been about problems with various versions and software issues. Most of the documentation for the build(s) has been removed from the EMW website and Valery no longer provides any support.  

I have downloaded some of the documentation and you may find it on my page: http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/

You may also find schematics and other information in my thread here:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...oubleshooting-fixing-emw-10kw-diy-158057.html

I have some extra boards for my prototype that you can have for cheap. I just uploaded a BOM in both CSV and ODS format. There may be some errors in these but they are pretty close. I will be working on my design again soon.

You may also want to look at the isolated ZVS SiC charger that Tony Bogs has developed.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks Paul.

I am looking at options for my electric CRX. 

I need an isolated output and fully charged is 465-470v but if I can make something that maxes out a level 2 charger and hook two of them in parallel on the output and run from 2 level 2 chargers at a time (3 with the meenwell slow chargers under the hood) that would make the car road trip worthy.

Any suggestions on what I should look at. I am just learning how a charger works now. I had an idea but never really dug in. Building one is a challenge I want and will accomplish the CRX is running my own 3 phase controller which will do ~700 (peak) amps at 410v rms running the power into a nissan leaf motor.

I am interested in cheep parts but I need to make sure its a path I want to choose. 

For now I am trying to learn all I can from what I can gather I need a diode stack > PFC > isolation transformer > switching transistor > choke > cap > traction battery.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think it's best to reserve this thread for those who have the EMW DIY charger kit, and are looking for help getting it to work or operate more reliably or differently with updated hardware tweaks and firmware revisions. Perhaps it would be good to start a new thread on the basics of EV battery chargers. There are also many other threads that cover this in some detail:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130626&highlight=battery+charger (Modular charger - PSTechPaul)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160386&highlight=battery+charger (Idiot's Guide)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36627&highlight=charger ($200 DIY Charger - Original by SimonRafferty)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89311&highlight=charger (Open source isolated 12 kW Charger - Valerun/EMW)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162082&highlight=charger (SIC LLC modular charger - Tony Bogs)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158057&highlight=charger (Analyzing, troubleshooting, and fixing EMW 12 kW DIY charger - PSTechPaul)

I know it is difficult to wade through the 300 pages of this thread, but most of the others are much shorter and more concise, focusing on technical issues and not on problems with an existing product with many versions.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Arlo said:


> Thanks Paul.
> 
> I am looking at options for my electric CRX.
> 
> ...


Huh...isolated? You are from US? 
I am from EU and here 3phase L2 is what we use. In single phase is not much power. 
I hooked up my iteration of EMW charger for 3phase 400Vac input, wound my inductor for cca 500uH and made also provision for single phase charging at low amps. 

My charger is connected to battery directly no isolation, but is isolated from car chassis with rubber blocks. This seems to help. Otherwise BMS comms would get clogged up and charger could not start. 
I also got rid of uLCD and put in another arduino to control charger trough 4 button interface. I can get 12kW out of it on 3phase for 3 years now. In between i busted two IGBTs experimenting but rest of the charger remains the same. But if i wanted to connect another charger in paralel it would have to be isolated design.

I ve done like 600km trips on that charger and took my family with me so system works. Its just so even with 12kW power i still have to wait little less than 3hrs for full charge! 
This summer i saw one of those Smart cars with 16kW battery and 22kW Brusa charger. It was full in cca 15 minutes!!! 

I will try to adapt my charger for water cooling and cca 20kW charging. This should require at least 300Vdc as currents are large!

A


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## codewiz (Oct 13, 2016)

arber333 said:


> Huh...isolated? You are from US?
> I am from EU and here 3phase L2 is what we use. In single phase is not much power.
> I hooked up my iteration of EMW charger for 3phase 400Vac input, wound my inductor for cca 500uH and made also provision for single phase charging at low amps.
> 
> ...


I am in need of a workable DIY 12kW non-isolated charger of 440Vdc output on 3phase input of 230Vac per phase. I have experience for low power electronics and would be grateful to get a working and tested schematics.
Thanks.


----------



## bcleveland5 (Sep 16, 2016)

I'm new here, and it's really amazing to see how many people contribute to this forum. This thread is by far one of my favourite, and I still need a couple days/weeks to read everything!!

I think I'm going to like it here


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Arber333 - you and Yabert are having much better performance with your chargers than I am.

Recall back here:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=468793#post468793

Since then, I have randomly blown 3 more IGBTs, DC-DC, and drivers.

Not sure if we have "dirty" power here, or what the problem is. Or (if previously discussed), the control circuitry is just not adequate.

Once again, my output IGBT is dead (PFC side seems to be holding up). I repaired the usual suspects, and now seem to have a shorted output diode (I added that as an option to the original build instructions). The charger refuses to work, and triggers the error "Sensor/Cal error". I have not seen this before and I'm not sure where to go from here.

Other than looking for an alternative charger.....

Any ideas at this point would be greatly appreciated.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Old.DSMer said:


> Arber333 - you and Yabert are having much better performance with your chargers than I am.
> 
> Recall back here:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=468793#post468793
> ...


I dont think dirty AC power has anything to do with charger blowing. More filtering caps certainly help...
I think problem is that HCPL driver has insufficient power to quickly open IGBT. I proposed driver SI8261BBC (4A) and DCDC MGJ2D121509SC that can be infinitely shorted and still survive. 
I am now testing (and having problems) with JackBauers ACPL 337j desat drivers on my inverter. When that will work. I will redraw charger driver board with desat and uvlo protection. Should solve most issues. 

My experience up to now was cca 12kW power max. BUT this was achievable from 3phase 600Vdc rectified down to 340Vdc battery. Think... buck charger is most efficient from 85% to 65% duty. If battery voltage is less than 50% of input efficiency plumetts and buck IGBT core starts to heat up. I think this heat causes failure in IGBT. So if you drive from 240Vac and have PFC you should have some 300Vdc battery to use your charger fully.

A


----------



## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Thanks for the info, arber333. I'll order some of those DC-DC and driver chips as I suspect continuing problems with this. REALLY interested in the desat protection. Although, at over $110ea --- I would very much like to be SAVING the IGBT.

I typically run 240VAC input and charge my pack to 296V (86 series CALB). Also typically at 30A input, which ends up 22-26A output. My toroid inductors do get hot.

However, the random failures typically happen immediately after plugging in the charger. Not while charging. Right around the two "clicks" that it makes when it first turns on. I'm wondering if there is still some way the output IGBT shorts "on" at plug-in? I installed the recommended Miller capacitance mod in my earlier post.

Perhaps heat from the charge cycles damages the IGBT or "wears" on it in small increments. Ultimately leading to complete failure. Not sure if thats even possible, but its the kind of straw I'm grasping at this point. Frustrating to not understand WHY this is happening. Your heat suggestion does make one think though...if I get this working again, I might try lower my power output to reduce the toroid heat (I do have a fan blowing on them already --- ironic considering this is a "liquid" cooled charger)

Any suggestions or ideas regarding the "Sensor/Cal error"?


----------



## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

This thread is full of complaints and problems with this charger. There are also many adjustments, both with hardware and software, to make this a better unit. What I would like to know from you guys who know this thing inside and out is: with all parameters set correctly, are there any flaws in the design that can destroy a battery pack or start a fire? Is there any particular component that, should it fail while charging, could destroy a battery pack or start a fire? I've used this unit for a few years now, but I have never felt like I can fully trust it to charge while I sleep, or charge while I'm away. I'm always nervous it's not going to quit charging when it's supposed to.... Things like that.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Any charger will have weak links where a component failure can cause catastrophic failure. This charger has many versions of the PC boards and components and firmware, and they are built from kits, so there are lots of variables involved. I haven't done much with the chargers I have (for troubleshooting and fixing), and it seems that it is best to replace the existing control and driver boards. I would not trust the charger for unattended use. It would be a good idea to add a timer to shut it down after a reasonable amount of time, and also add circuit breakers and fuses on the input and output. If the IGBT (or associated circuitry) fails such that it remains ON, the full voltage (about 370 VDC) from the PFC section would be applied to the battery pack, and cause a high current surge. A fast-acting fuse would be the best protection.


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## Rastusmalinus (Sep 26, 2011)

PStechPaul said:


> Any charger will have weak links where a component failure can cause catastrophic failure. This charger has many versions of the PC boards and components and firmware, and they are built from kits, so there are lots of variables involved. I haven't done much with the chargers I have (for troubleshooting and fixing), and it seems that it is best to replace the existing control and driver boards. I would not trust the charger for unattended use. It would be a good idea to add a timer to shut it down after a reasonable amount of time, and also add circuit breakers and fuses on the input and output. If the IGBT (or associated circuitry) fails such that it remains ON, the full voltage (about 370 VDC) from the PFC section would be applied to the battery pack, and cause a high current surge. A fast-acting fuse would be the best protection.


Right on. Thanks for the reply.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

Where can i download it?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

What are you looking to download? Much of the documentation seems to have disappeared from the EMW website, but some of the docs are on my website:

http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

PStechPaul said:


> What are you looking to download? Much of the documentation seems to have disappeared from the EMW website, but some of the docs are on my website:
> 
> http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/



Thanks man.this is all i need.


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## sjd.aliyan (Jan 17, 2018)

PStechPaul said:


> What are you looking to download? Much of the documentation seems to have disappeared from the EMW website, but some of the docs are on my website:
> 
> http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/


check your pm


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I have some schematics of the EMW charger (although there are various versions):


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/EMW_PFC_Overall.pdf


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/EMW_Charger_Schematic_1.png


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/EMW_Charger_Schematic_2.png


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/Driver_V12-13.pdf


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/Control_Board_V12.pdf


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/Overall_V12.pdf


I have added the build notes for the charger:


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/EMW-12000_PFC-V12-Build_Notes.pdf


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/SmartCharge-12000PFCBuildManual.odt


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/SmartCharge-12000_Non-PFC-V12-Build_Notes(Deprecated).pdf


I haven't done anything on this project for quite some time. I do plan to get back to it sometime, but I've been busy with other things. Let me know if you need anything else. I have more files on my computer.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

My response to a PM:


> I don't know of any other open source chargers, other than the one I have been working on. That was supposed to be a retrofit to address some of the problems with the EMW design, and I did make a PCB and did some initial testing. I have two of the chargers that were given to me to try to fix, but I did not get very far. It is not "officially" an open source project, but I would welcome collaboration on further development. I have other priorities, but I would like to build a charger for my EV tractor project that is currently on hold.


It may be best to continue this discussion in my thread about analyzing, repairing, and retrofitting the EMW kit charger.


[edit] Actually, there is another open source charger:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/sic-llc-modular-charger-design-162082.html


Here is my thread, where this discussion might properly continue:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/foru...oubleshooting-fixing-emw-10kw-diy-158057.html


And valerun has a thread on an isolated DIY design:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/open-source-isolated-12kw-charger-89311.html


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## mulle_meck (Mar 25, 2018)

Hello! 

Me and my friend is planning to build this charger. But the problem is that we cannot open the pcb files for the different boards. 

We can open the controller board files, to get the gerber files for pcb production, but what about the other boards? They have .pcb format and I cannot find any program that will open these files in order to get the gerber files for production.

How did you guys solve this? Is there anyone out there with pcbs for sale? Or does emotorwerks still have the pcbs for sale? Or does anyone know what program we can open .pcb files with? 

We have tried with Eagle, Diptrace, Kicad, PADS and some other which I don´t remember.. 

Pls help us guys! Thank you!


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

mulle_meck said:


> Hello!
> 
> Me and my friend is planning to build this charger. But the problem is that we cannot open the pcb files for the different boards.
> 
> ...


Try actually reading the thread from the first post.... it will come to you.

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=516962&postcount=2655


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm in need of a 10kw single phase charger. The choices are Damiens Tesla reconfigured for a volt pack or a Chinese version (not my first choice) or a DIY one as mentioned here. I would do the DIY version but only if I didn't have to keep pulling it apart and fixing things. I'm not great at determining what the issues are in circuit boards. What is the current state of the DIY art? As stated somewhere above, there are many different versions of the board and components and I would not know which one to pick.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

mulle_meck said:


> Hello!
> 
> Me and my friend is planning to build this charger. But the problem is that we cannot open the pcb files for the different boards.
> 
> ...


 Try ExpressPCB. https://www.electroschematics.com/832/expresspcb-download/


But I would strongly recommend against trying to build this charger. I tried to design a viable retrofit for this charger, and I have an assembled PCB and several unpopulated. I have been busy with other projects but I do intend to try working on this again. I think I will at least be able to make a simple charger that works with the existing power board, with some modifications. 



You can try contacting eMotorWerks but they seem to be doing only EVSE stuff and they have taken down their technical documents. I have some of them, and my own design (which uses PADS2004) on:
http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/


There is another open source project for an isolated charger design, which is much safer and better engineered, but I'm not sure what the status is.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> I'm in need of a 10kw single phase charger. The choices are Damiens Tesla reconfigured for a volt pack or a Chinese version (not my first choice) or a DIY one as mentioned here. I would do the DIY version but only if I didn't have to keep pulling it apart and fixing things. I'm not great at determining what the issues are in circuit boards. What is the current state of the DIY art? As stated somewhere above, there are many different versions of the board and components and I would not know which one to pick.



Yup! That is DIY world. 

I did manage to keep my charger running for 3 years without any issues.
I do not know what happened in the mean time about spare parts though. The LCD i am using is the 1st revision and they had to change the firmware because of the source code change. 



My success was in lowering working freq to 12Khz and using 6kW UPS filters for inductor. it has much better efficiency than toroid. Yes and i had to use 400A IGBTs and SI8261BBC with Murata +15V/-8V DCDCs. That works best and is cheapest. 

I also made an experimental driver board with desat driver. I dont think it is worth the effort. In any case if IGBT goes short the whole unit is toast. 

Maybe driver 1EDI40I12AHXUMA1 from infineon would be better. It can sense short on IGBT and stop PWM.



I have a plan for making 11kW 3phase liquid cooled charger smaller using TO transistors in paralel. It should work up to 70A like the EMW charger using their control mechanism and master board. I will use Prius inductor and DC capacitor. 

Again this would be 3phase buck non-isolated charger using the same method as EMW charger.
This should require lot of testing still. I have a test battery at home and it is good for 380Vdc. 

Anyone else volunteers for testing on LV batteries, cca 120Vdc?


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

arber333 said:


> Yup! That is DIY world.
> 
> I did manage to keep my charger running for 3 years without any issues.
> I do not know what happened in the mean time about spare parts though. The LCD i am using is the 1st revision and they had to change the firmware because of the source code change.
> ...



Mine will be for use with 3 Volt packs in parallel so 10kw is needed unless I want to wait all weekend to charge.


You guys in Europe are lucky to have 3 phase in some homes. It especially makes vriable speed heat pump compressor easy to control. No such luck here.


Arber, which DIY one did you work with? I'm not averse to trying but the debugging is the hardest part for me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2018)

hello, any one know where can i found a chademo controller for the smartcharger 12000 ?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

CanadaLT28 said:


> Mine will be for use with 3 Volt packs in parallel so 10kw is needed unless I want to wait all weekend to charge.
> 
> You guys in Europe are lucky to have 3 phase in some homes. It especially makes vriable speed heat pump compressor easy to control. No such luck here.
> 
> Arber, which DIY one did you work with? I'm not averse to trying but the debugging is the hardest part for me.


Yup i have 30kWh in my Mazda and dont imagine to charge it at 3kW.

I used EMW plans for the V13 hardware and some V14 solutions. I decided to only take the buck stage since i use 3ph. I would never be able to effectively correct PFC on all phases. I made my own master board on schematic from V13 and i made a high voltage board for power section. current sensor and diode is built into this board.
I also use one 3phase AC and one DC contactor on both sides of the power section. This feature saved my IGBT a lot of times, since energy just stays there when both contacts fall off. I can just remove the plug and nothing bad happens.

There is one critical fault i noticed. Sensing circuit of driver board for V13 onwards is NOT ISOLATED in fact it is CONNECTED to car chassis through 12V GND. The old V12 design with twin op amps was safer, but more expensive.
This is a real hazard and i mitigate it to mount my charger on rubber sealant blocks. If it came in contact with chassis ma BMS and lots of electronics would get confused. 

Theoreticaly i could use cars 12V power to run the chargers logic and mount 3ph in delta without neutral wire. That would remove a liability and allow me to use GND cable so my car would be grounded. That way i could charge at lots of industrial motor plugs that only use delta connection. I never tried though...


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

arber333 said:


> Yup i have 30kWh in my Mazda and dont imagine to charge it at 3kW.
> 
> I used EMW plans for the V13 hardware and some V14 solutions. I decided to only take the buck stage since i use 3ph. I would never be able to effectively correct PFC on all phases. I made my own master board on schematic from V13 and i made a high voltage board for power section. current sensor and diode is built into this board.
> I also use one 3phase AC and one DC contactor on both sides of the power section. This feature saved my IGBT a lot of times, since energy just stays there when both contacts fall off. I can just remove the plug and nothing bad happens.
> ...



30kw might be enough but I would rather have 50kw or more. My pack will eventually be about 70kw and I only plan on using it when traveling long distance and wish to make use of the chargers on the road. I haven't be able to find a working link to all the open source stuff. I know Paul has some of it but I'm not sure if it is the entire set of documents.


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## Rusli_Rizani (Mar 12, 2019)

Hello guys, I am build an EMW Smartcharge 12 kW for 96v battery car charger. in the firmware there is an error with comments like this




DCCharger_V14_12_ard1_0: 221: 22: error: variable 'msg_long_1' must be const in order to be put into read-only section by means of '__attribute __ ((progmem))'

PGM_P msg_long_1 [] PROGMEM = "No batt or reverse! \ NANY BTN to ignore"; ^




Please help me
thank you guys


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Rusli_Rizani said:


> Hello guys, I am build an EMW Smartcharge 12 kW for 96v battery car charger. in the firmware there is an error with comments like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can't help you with this but I too want to build one of these chargers but all the links are dead. Is there a good source for the info?


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## Rusli_Rizani (Mar 12, 2019)

thank you guys, i've been done with the firmware, this is the codes VMcharger v14.4. it works with arduino IDE 1.8.8


https://github.com/RIZANIRUSLI/EMW-VMCharger


but, how to test first run and validate it well work?


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Rusli_Rizani said:


> thank you guys, i've been done with the firmware, this is the codes VMcharger v14.4. it works with arduino IDE 1.8.8
> 
> 
> https://github.com/RIZANIRUSLI/EMW-VMCharger
> ...


Hi

Can you tell us how did you connect the rest of support code? There were some issues with new ino code and old h files. I still use 0.22 code. I would like to go to the new version though.


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## Rusli_Rizani (Mar 12, 2019)

arber333 said:


> Hi
> 
> Can you tell us how did you connect the rest of support code? There were some issues with new ino code and old h files. I still use 0.22 code. I would like to go to the new version though.





I have been updated, the zip file include library file, you should copy paste in document-> arduino->libraries


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## Rusli_Rizani (Mar 12, 2019)

Hello Guys, We have been bulit and tested and also work well. but there is a problem, current measurement in Allegro 50U doesn't suitable with amperemeter. do you have an advice to solve it

thank you


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Rusli_Rizani said:


> Hello Guys, We have been bulit and tested and also work well. but there is a problem, current measurement in Allegro 50U doesn't suitable with amperemeter. do you have an advice to solve it
> 
> thank you


Hm...
Why do you use 50U? Code was prepared to be used with 100U. 
If you want to use 50U you have to change parameter in sensor V/A response. See line 503 in your code:

_//=================================== charger current sensor ==============================
// V/A constant for the charger output current sensor 
float V_o_C=
#ifdef OUTC_SENSOR_Allegro_100U
0.6; // allegros are 0.6
#else
2.5; // tamuras are 2.5
#endif

// sensitivity of the sensor
const float k_V_C=
#ifdef OUTC_SENSOR_Tamura_50B
0.03;
#endif
#ifdef OUTC_SENSOR_Tamura_150B
0.01;
#endif
#ifdef OUTC_SENSOR_Tamura_600B
0.0025;
#endif
*#ifdef OUTC_SENSOR_Allegro_100U
0.04;*_

Sensitivity should be less here since for 50A sensor you have wider field. 
Try using 0.06 instead of 0.04. Let me know how it goes . See datasheet for sensor you use.
EDIT: Sorry the first time i was looking wrong code line for sensitivity.


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## Rusli_Rizani (Mar 12, 2019)

arber333 said:


> Hm...
> Why do you use 50U? Code was prepared to be used with 100U.
> If you want to use 50U you have to change parameter in sensor V/A response. See line 503 in your code:
> 
> ...


actually I just follow the BOM list.
The current sensor part number in BOM list is 620-1353-ND.
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=620-1353-ND


Okay,, thank you for your advice, I will try it


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Rusli_Rizani said:


> actually I just follow the BOM list.
> The current sensor part number in BOM list is 620-1353-ND.
> https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=620-1353-ND
> 
> ...


I see. I always used ACS758LCB-100U pn 620-1354-ND
I did experiment with small 3kW charger unit that used 50A version but i stopped since everyone wanted more power . If you do have charger already assembled you may just want to insert new data in line 503 code and try if everything works. Later you may want to ammend code with separate ACS758LCB-050U line.

A


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## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2019)

Hi is any on can build chademo charger for me?
If yes how much?
Thanks ))


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Rusli_Rizani said:


> actually I just follow the BOM list.
> The current sensor part number in BOM list is 620-1353-ND.
> https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=620-1353-ND
> 
> ...


Any news? 

A


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## Rusli_Rizani (Mar 12, 2019)

arber333 said:


> Any news?
> 
> A



Yes, it works, thank you for your advice, 
I am calibrating the constant, it is 0.056


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I didn't notice that there were new posts on this. I haven't had much time lately to continue my work on a retrofit for this charger, but I plan to do something with the units I have. Meanwhile, I have a lot of information on this charger here:


http://enginuitysystems.com/files/EMW/


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## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2019)

Hi how much it cost to build dc charger ? (If any one can send in private or post)
And maby it's easy to take ac to DC inverter from solar panels and modify?


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## Mustang101 (Apr 17, 2008)

Thanks Paul! 

I've been looking for the schematics and BOM for some time. I'm upgrading my batteries to 18650 cells and need a new charger. 

BTW your controller that I built 8 years ago is still running great.


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## Song Jingna (Nov 26, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Hi is any on can build chademo charger for me?
> If yes how much?
> Thanks ))


hi sir,this is christina song from Luoyang Grasen and we received your inquiry about CHAdeMO mobile charger, do you still need it?


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## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2019)

How to change GB/T charging interface to chademo ?


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## rfletch (Mar 2, 2020)

jackbauer said:


> I'm about to start building the control board. Does anyone want one of my ultra boring videos on the subject?


Yes Damien, 

I cant find any info on how to get Charger kit or purchase the charger as the emotorwerks website doesn't appear to exist anymore. Can you help me get started building my own charger?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

This was never a good design to begin with, and I was unable to make the retrofit kit that I had hoped would provide a fix. You can find most of the documentation for the EMW charger on my link in a previous post. There are kits for other designs elsewhere on this forum. Good luck.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

I made a decision early on to build 3phase charger on this design and eliminate PFC stage. Of course having 3phase stabilises power factor by default. Still there are losses which are consequence of your choice of inductor. 
I have seen very good results using salvaged inductors (litz wire) from 6kW or 10kW 3phase UPS systems. They dont heat up as much aas toroids and they are easier to fit into a box. 

Lately i just used 2nd gen Prius inductor. It is very easy to connect and to bolt on any cooling surface. I have been charging that way up to 16kW air cooled for like a month now. System produces less noise and heat and seems more stable in general. 
Dima and i have also developed wifi interface to use without LCD. 
https://github.com/dimecho/ESP8266-EMW-Charger

I think you still need LCD at first to calibrate voltage sensing. Not so if you would use ISO124 sensors though...


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## rfletch (Mar 2, 2020)

arber333 said:


> I made a decision early on to build 3phase charger on this design and eliminate PFC stage. Of course having 3phase stabilises power factor by default. Still there are losses which are consequence of your choice of inductor.
> I have seen very good results using salvaged inductors (litz wire) from 6kW or 10kW 3phase UPS systems. They dont heat up as much aas toroids and they are easier to fit into a box.
> 
> Lately i just used 2nd gen Prius inductor. It is very easy to connect and to bolt on any cooling surface. I have been charging that way up to 16kW air cooled for like a month now. System produces less noise and heat and seems more stable in general.
> ...


Thank you arber333. The web interface and wi-fi capability looks like a significant upgrade and will make the charger much easier to live with.

I'm at the starting phase, so more interested in the design and building process. I have limited electronics experience, however I'm a quick study and I'm looking forward to learning as I go. I have read about a third of the thread (it's a long thread) and I've been impressed with Damien's first build (jackbauer). I liked that it was water cooled and although only single phase, it didn't need a PFC stage.

The charger is to use a single phase 240 V input as well as receiving power from a range extender (generator) to charge on the go.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

rfletch said:


> The charger is to use a single phase 240 V input as well as receiving power from a range extender (generator) to charge on the go.


My charger is only used as rapid charging from 3phase. If you try it ith single phase you will get much lower PF and only about 65% efficiency.

Yes for range extender i think it would inherently work in 3phase configuration. I would recommend a small capable battery as a buffer though.

Right now i get 16kW out of this charger only on air cooling. 
Liquid cooled i belive it could work up to 30kW...


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

rfletch said:


> ...
> The charger is to use a single phase 240 V input as well as receiving power from a range extender (generator) to charge on the go.


Might want to do more research about on-the-go charging.


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## rfletch (Mar 2, 2020)

kennybobby said:


> Might want to do more research about on-the-go charging.


Hi Ken, why is that?


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## kennybobby (Aug 10, 2012)

Well just off the top of my head i would think that the design needs to consider how to parallel an energy source to the pack while it is busy supplying the vehicle HV loads (A/C, Heater, DC/DC Converter and an Inverter to drive or regenerate motor currents).

So any such on-the-go system must accommodate nearly instantaneous large-and-variable voltage swings, plus substantial current reversals-- Plus the whole set of issues discussed on this forum associated with paralleling of energy sources (packs).

Good Luck to you and keep safe,
kenny


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## tiger82 (Sep 23, 2015)

I have a factory built SmartCharge 12000. Is this charger isolated? I would like to parallel the output with another charger - a Tesla Gen2 charger running the Damien McGuire Open Source Controller. Is this possible? The chargers would be run in CC mode only. AC input would be from separate single phase circuits on a 3 phase generator.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

This charger is not isolated. It is probably not going to work to parallel with another charger that is also not isolated. I don't think the Tesla charger is isolated. An isolation transformer is a large and heavy item at these power levels. It should be possible to parallel several identical Tesla chargers if wired correctly. The only charger I have looked at was one of the early ones from a 2013 Model S and that unit was designed to use 3 phase power although in the cars in the US they are not wired this way. A stack of these chargers is still used in the first generation of superchargers. I did a quick search for Gen 2 Tesla charger and got no relevant hits. I don't know what that is or how it differs from the earlier charger.

Best wishes!

Doug


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## tiger82 (Sep 23, 2015)

Yes, we have successfully paralled a number of Tesla chargers together. What would be the likely result if we paralled the SmartCharge 1200 and a Tesla charger? What determines whether a charger can be paralled with another?


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

The way these things work is that they rectify the inputs to give a DC voltage. Then there is the PFC boost stage which raises its output voltage and loads the input side to keep the current constant which corrects the power factor. The output of the PFC stage is then bucked down to control the current into the battery. Depending on the topology you either have a wire that passes through the charger on the negative and the switching magic is all done on the positive side or you have a wire that passes through the charger on the positive side and the switching magic is all done on the negative. If you tie the inputs of one of the chargers to phase 1 and phase 2 of your 3 phase generator the most positive part of the sine wave on these pairs becomes the positive and the most negative point becomes the negative. If you tie the second charger to phase 2 and phase 3 these positives and negatives do not occur at the same time (The wave forms are out of phase) and current will flow between the chargers. This is a bad thing. If you place both chargers on the same pair of phases it might work. Wiring to the generator this way is not what you want because it would essentially derate your generator to 1/3 of its capability and it will probably not sound healthy when running if you load it this way.

I am guessing that you paralleled Tesla chargers off of the same 240 volt split phase input. I expect you would have problems paralleling the Tesla chargers when connected to different phases of the generator for the same reason unless you hook all three phases up to all paralleled chargers.

There are other problems that can crop up even if you don't have isolation issues. If the control loops are not compatible you could have instability where the chargers would fight each other. This is not usually a problem when driving batteries but it is possible.


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## tiger82 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks for the explanation. The chargers were connected to separate phases of the 3 phase generator generator (the generator we are using has 3 separate 50 amp circuits) with no problems, so do they have other circuitry that would allow them to work in this configuration?


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

It's been a looooong time ) Great to see you guys still keeping some of this alive. I got a bit busy with other projects in the last 4-5 years...


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

valerun said:


> It's been a looooong time ) Great to see you guys still keeping some of this alive. I got a bit busy with other projects in the last 4-5 years...


Hi Valery. Nice to hear from you.
I read about one of your projects lately. The electric Piper aircraft . Congratulations on completing that project.

My 3phase charger is still running strong i must say. I am using it now up to 16kW from 3phase with original circuits and a little modified code. Also a friend wrote Wifi IOT thing to work with serial connection so i can start the charger with my phone. I did change quite a few inductors through the years. The best option was to use Prius gen2 inductor that i got from a broken gen2 inverter. I could get 18kW on air cooled charger from it, but not for a long time. We need liquid cooling . 
I am trying to build a 20kW liquid cooled charger which would be independent from car. Only connection to the vehicle would be DC cables.

Also at such high power output voltage sensing suffers quite a lot. I am not really impressed with V13 and V14 sensing. Do you maybe have somewhere the old ISO124 driver board schematic? That one was really accurate, but unfortunately it burned out...

tnx

Arber


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## valerun (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks Arber - yes, getting a 2-ton aircraft in the air on electric power is a next level type of challenge  

Will check what I can find that's still open source.


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