# Got a motor - now what to do with it?



## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

I would try a 36 Volt forklift controller. You wouldn't need to run at 1000amps a 600AMP controller should work fine, or you could buy a zilla. That power range puts you into a motorcycle, it sounds a little low for a car. Good Luck that sounds like a good project. Post the supplier, we may want one too.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2008)

Do you have any photos of your motor and motor plate? What you have is a shunt motor with one field common with the armature. Kelly built me a controller for these motors and these motors have interpoles and are capable of regen since they were designed as a starter motor and generator. The base voltage is 30 and the base amps are 400. RPM is rated at 3000 to 8000 rpm. Way more than the normal series motors. These motors do make a whining noise when running and are not quiet like the series motors. The one I have show in the photo album will push my VW Ghia to 62 mph with 72 volts and using my Kelly controller. They are decent but not kick butt motors. Use in light weight cars only. Not the best for heavy vehicles. They are built hell for stout but they can not be abused. They are able to do regen. I am going to reset my controller and up the voltage to my field. You can not use normal sepex controllers as one field is common with the armature. This makes this a 3 wire motor and not a 4 wire. It is not a series motor. I have more info on them and can help. It should have 6 mounting bolt holes and a splined shaft. My motor is a generator but still exactly the same as the starter generators the military used for their planes. 

http://inertext.homeunix.com/newkaylor

Check the link out and contact me off line for more info. Please ask questions and I may be able to help. 

Pete


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

gottdi said:


> The one I have show in the photo album will push my VW Ghia to 62 mph with 72 volts and using my Kelly controller. They are decent but not kick butt motors.
> Pete


You ran floodies to test it and say they are not kick butt motors but have you thought about running AGMs at that voltage? shouldnt it be kick butt then? also the controller at 800-1000amps would surely make them kick butt.

here are some controllers Ive found - these are one off prices.
http://www.elektrosistem.com/e/p2.htm

SEPEX

Phoenix T61 600A 96V control unit
SINGLE NET PRICE ------------------ EUR. 521,13.-

Phoenix T81 800A 96V control unit
SINGLE NET PRICE ------------------ EUR. 907,77.-

The T60 series 600A for will be around 500USD and the T80 800a about 870USD.


SERIES-------
the ones Im considering for a low volt direct drive setup

http://www.elektrosistem.com/e/p3.htm
IMC 80T 800A 24-80V CONTROL UNIT 
SINGLE NET PRICE ------------------- EUR. 763,20.-

IMC 100T 1000A 24-80V CONTROL UNIT 
SINGLE NET PRICE ------------------- EUR. 847,73.-

MC 60B 600A 24-80V CONTROL UNIT 

SINGLE NET PRICE ------------------- EUR. 341,01.-

MC 60BR 600A 24-80V CONTROL UNIT SINGLE NET PRICE ------------------- EUR.  369,83.-

The lady that has given me the quotes is very helpful
very different to ZAPI.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2008)

> You ran floodies to test it and say they are not kick butt motors but have you thought about running AGMs at that voltage? shouldnt it be kick butt then? also the controller at 800-1000amps would surely make them kick butt.


At 72 volts and 600 amps it is fine but not kick butt. Yes but the controller is only 600 amps and I already have that controller so I can't increase the amps. The controllers you mention are fine for series motors and standard sepex motor. However these are not your standard sepex motors and your series motors won't work. I had a sepex controller modified by the factory to work with these motors. One other option you have is to tap 36 volts off your pack or have a separate pack with 36 volts for the field windings and then use a PM motor controller to control the motor. The separate power for the field will not be controlled but only on and off by switch contactor. I on the other hand can program my controller to give more power to the field at start and as I increase speed the field voltage will be dropped allowing for higher speeds. These motors are able to rev to 8000 rpm which your standard series motors can't do. 

PS. I plan on keeping your links to that company. I have a nice GE motor right now and a nice big 11" Kostov with interpoles too. I want to use my Kostov and have regen too. I need a decent controller too. I do have a Zapi H3 but to use regen I must use my Kostov and only at 120 or 96 volts. It is capable of pumping out 1000 amps. Nice. I still need a programmer to change some parameters first. I am in progress of getting one at this time. 

My sepex controller needs a good heat sink installed and it does have thermal protection built in. I just need to tweak it a bit. I also would not put more than 96 volts and 800 amps max through one of these motors. I think my 600 amps is at the limits. These were designed to go fast but not to move a vehicle. Only to start an engine and to generate power for the planes once the engine was started. The thermal protection is not H rated on the motors but it is F rated. It is fine but not a race motor. I do not think AGM's would make much of a difference at that voltage and amperage. I already have my floodies anyway so it will make no difference to me. Maybe someone else would like to experiment with that. Pricy for just and experiment but that is what I have done. I am glad I have another set up to use in my Ghia which is already being tested. So far 65 MPH and the controller is a series GolfTech 72 volt 550 amp controller. It is powering a 9" GE motor in my Ghia and the speed difference is not much but the controller and motor do not heat up as much as the other setup. So at 72 volts and 550 amps I get a bit quicker but top speed is about the same. I will be putting the starter/generator back in the Ghia and do some more testing and tweaking to see if I can keep it cool and pull out more from that little motor. It is a small motor. : )

Pete : )


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## engineer_Bill (Jun 24, 2008)

Driving a ghia to 65 MPH is good for a small motor like that. 72 volts at 600 amps is what I am using to drive my Hyundai accent. I haven't road tested it yet, but my calculated speed will be the same. That is with a much larger motor. Post where you get those, I'm still waiting.


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## ElvishWarrior (Apr 10, 2008)

I just went out to test the belief that it has one coil wound in series with the armature. I detached one of the two field terminals and energized the motor. It fired up just fine. With it spinning, I made contact with the detached wire. The speed noticeably decreased, and increased again when I broke contact. I then detached both terminals. Again it fired up, and when I made contact with one of the two field wires, nothing happened.

So I believe I have confirmed what Gottdi said. One difference though is that what I called a spline is actually the central gear of a planetary gear system. I also don't see what would be identified as three terminals. There are two terminals for the armature, and then inside there are the two field coil terminals. Would this be best classified as a "compound motor"?

Now for the applications. If I were to use it on a land vehicle, regenerative braking would be an important feature. I'm not entirely sure I want to get into a non-standard controller, and I'm not sure how regen would work with a compound motor. It seems that current generated as the armature turns would run through the series coils and try to turn the motor in the forward direction. Wouldn't that cause regen to be very inefficient, almost to the point of not being worth it? Or is there something I'm missing?

I'm leaning towards using this instead on a boat project where regen wouldn't be used anyway. But I'm still pretty open minded.

I've tried to attach pictures. For others interested in getting some of these, the seller goes by the name "usedwheel", I think. It's listed as a jet starter motor of some sort.


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## OHM (Jun 30, 2008)

gottdi said:


> These motors are able to rev to 8000 rpm which your standard series motors can't do.
> PS. I plan on keeping your links to that company. I have a nice GE motor right now and a nice big 11" Kostov with interpoles too. I want to use my Kostov and have regen too. I need a decent controller too. I do have a Zapi H3 but to use regen I must use my Kostov and only at 120 or 96 volts. It is capable of pumping out 1000 amps. Nice. I still need a programmer to change some parameters first. I am in progress of getting one at this time.
> 
> My sepex controller needs a good heat sink installed and it does have thermal protection built in. I just need to tweak it a bit. I also would not put more than 96 volts and 800 amps max through one of these motors. I think my 600 amps is at the limits. These were designed to go fast but not to move a vehicle. : ) Pete : )


Good to hear Pete of all your experimenting, being built for higher rpms and 1000amps limit tells me you quality motor. I havent heard of anyone make 60mph or more in a vw karman ghia on 72 volts and floodies. I think its wise to work with lower voltages for sepex or in general similar as Dr Larry has also with his Swifts as it works out well for costs and do we need more than 70mph?

Can I ask if you got the Zapi locally as I cant get any response from them in italy for their low voltage Ac range.


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## ElvishWarrior (Apr 10, 2008)

This may be a long shot, but here goes:

What about using two of these motors in tandem to drive a light truck, 3500lb or less, using a standard series controller? Wouldn't be a bad starter EV project for a guy on a budget.


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## ElvishWarrior (Apr 10, 2008)

No comments on using two of them in tandem? I'm assuming it would make more sense to wire them in series with a 60-72V battery pack and approx 1000A controller than to use a 30-36V battery pack and single or dual controllers with 2000A combined capacity. But I don't see any 1000A controllers out ther for 30V.


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