# Lithium?



## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

45 batteries if you use 3.2 as the nominal voltage. AH will depend upon what you want for distance. The 200 AH batteries are taller than others. 160 to 200 Ah should do you fine. I'd say go with the 200Ah pack. We are planning that too. If you only need like 30 or so miles then you can go with good AGM style batteries. 12 batteries at 12 volts will give you 144 volts. Deep cycle are required for lead. 

More AH means you can go further. Pretty simple. How far depends upon lots of other things but you should have a cool 80 to 100 mile range with lithium batteries. 

Pete


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## marline (Nov 20, 2009)

gottdi said:


> 45 batteries if you use 3.2 as the nominal voltage. AH will depend upon what you want for distance. The 200 AH batteries are taller than others. 160 to 200 Ah should do you fine. I'd say go with the 200Ah pack. We are planning that too. If you only need like 30 or so miles then you can go with good AGM style batteries. 12 batteries at 12 volts will give you 144 volts. Deep cycle are required for lead.
> 
> More AH means you can go further. Pretty simple. How far depends upon lots of other things but you should have a cool 80 to 100 mile range with lithium batteries.
> 
> Pete


Thanks Pete!

Another question please?

Which lithium is the best for the price. I know they are expensive, but what kind of price range am I looking at for 45 3.2 lithiums?


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## ewdysar (Jun 15, 2010)

marline said:


> Thanks Pete!
> 
> Another question please?
> 
> Which lithium is the best for the price. I know they are expensive, but what kind of price range am I looking at for 45 3.2 lithiums?


45 160Ah LiFePO4 batteries will cost around $9000 or more. 200Ah cells have 25% more capacity and cost 25% more. 

There are a few different brands available, unfortunately the thread on this site that attempted to determine which brand was better was high-jacked and got 200 replies (20 pages) without coming to any conclusion. 

There are also a couple of different vendors that are importing the various brands today. Please do some research on the vendors before making your purchase.

Eric


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

For non race applications I'd say Thunder Sky and CALEB. For racing it is Kokam and A123. But both of those still require custom designed packs to be built. The TS and Caleb are ready and packaged to go as soon as you receive them. They are proving to be very good. 
Here is a u-tube demonstration of caleb polymer cells against other name brand in a nail puncture test. These are Polymer and not the ones mentioned above. Polymer are proving to maybe the better choice but they need custom boxes but if you work with the company you can build a decent box. One issue with another brand is the polymer foil pack carries a small charge so you must prevent any shorting. But the Caleb are looking very good now. I am going to go with them. Not sure about the polymer ones yet but when I actually buy I may be going that route. We shall see. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mhYjU7bUzI


Pete


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

Where can you buy CALEB batteries? I've never heard of them before.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

I was originally thinking about these. CALB (Sky Energy). These are better than Sky Energy and are packaged exactly like them. Perfect for a nice on the road EV. Prepackaged and ready to go. We are working on finding a reliable source. Our one friend screwed the EV business and now no one has any trust in anyone. So when someone steps up to the plate and buys them then brings them in for sale we will then have an on the spot place to buy them from the store. Not pay and wait and wonder if you will ever get your batteries. It is way too much to send that kind of money then have to hope you get your product months later. I will buy but only from someone that actually has them here on our soil already and where I can go pick them up myself. I now have the money to buy.


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## mszhao (Oct 17, 2009)

marline said:


> We are doing a EV VW Bug. First we were going to use 12V batteries, but now we are thinking maybe Lithium.
> 
> Motor is warp9, 144 - 196 volts, curtis 1234 controller, DC/DC converter, On board charger.
> 
> ...


Hi Maline,if you would like to know what V and AH of lithium batteries you should use,you need to consider the following factors:
1,norminal and max voltage of your motor
2,norminal and max power of your motor or continuous current and peak current required for the batteries
3,average speed of your EV,and driving distance you expect

then i will get an answer for you which is suit your EV and save cost both.and what Pete said is also reasonable.the higher Ah of batteries you use,the longer you can drive only if you afford the higher cost.

or you can email me [email protected]. i know Lifepo4 well as i have done this business for years.i will be glad to help you.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

marline said:


> Motor is warp9, 144 - 196 volts, curtis 1234 controller...


Huh? Something ain't right here, as you have a DC motor paired with an _AC_ controller.



marline said:


> How many Lithium batteries would I need for my EV conversion for a Range of 75-100 miles, speed of 55-75.


Probably more than you can fit in an old VW bug.... between 20 and 30kWh. If you want the system voltage to be ~144V then you will need to use 160Ah cells at the very least. Say bye-bye to the back seat and trunk.



marline said:


> And how lithium cells per 12 volts are needed, I'm not understanding the (ah) thing on the lithium batteries.


Four 3.2V nominal LFP cells is equal to one 12V nominal lead-acid, but that only works for so long because of the 0.8V gap between the two nominal voltages.

What don't you understand about Ah (amp-hours) with respect to LFP? It's a measure of capacity: the number of amps times the number of hours a battery can deliver. A 100Ah battery should deliver 100A for 1 hour or 200A for 30 minutes or 50A for 2 hours, etc. LFP cells typically deliver their advertised capacity up to discharge rates of 2C or more while deliverable capacity from lead-acid starts to drop once you pull more than 0.2C (eg - 20A from a 100Ah battery).


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## marline (Nov 20, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> Huh? Something ain't right here, as you have a DC motor paired with an _AC_ controller.
> 
> *CORRECTION: Controller Curtis 1231C-8601 96-144VDC*
> 
> ...


 


Tesseract said:


> Huh? Something ain't right here, as you have a DC motor paired with an _AC_ controller.
> 
> *CORRECTION: Controller Curtis 1231C-8601 96-144VDC*
> 
> ...


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## marline (Nov 20, 2009)

mszhao said:


> Hi Maline,if you would like to know what V and AH of lithium batteries you should use,you need to consider the following factors:
> 1,norminal and max voltage of your motor
> 2,norminal and max power of your motor or continuous current and peak current required for the batteries
> 3,average speed of your EV,and driving distance you expect
> ...


Controller: 
Peak Current Rating: 500A
2 Min Current Rating: 500A
5 Min Current Rating: 375A
1 Hour Current Rating: 225A
Voltage Drop @ 100A: .30
Under Volt Cutback: 64 Volt

Motor: ImPulse 9, 144v - 196v max

I'm not sure about the ratings?

Driving distance: work daily 15 miles total, would like to do some Joy riding 40 - 50 miles sometimes.


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## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

marline said:


> Which lithium is the best for the price. I know they are expensive, but what kind of price range am I looking at for 45 3.2 lithiums?


Best bang for the buck are the Thundersky batteries. 45 of the $160ah batteries would cost $8712 plus ground shipping.

If everything lines up I will have a container on the way soon. 

Dave Kois
Current EV Tech, LLC


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