# Newbie trying to make an EV Motorcycle!



## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

I stumbled across this sit a couple days back and I got intruiged.
As I have been looking around I also stumbled across eMoto and want to do something like that.
I want to start fairly cheapish, like just driving around town say about 5-10 miles at about 25-35mph. And someday swap out for something a little more road-worthy, about 60-80 miles at about 75mph, slower if I absoulutly have to.
My questions are:
1. What would be a good frame to start on? I have been looking at possibly aquiring a Kawasaki Ninja ZX6 frame. And where would be a great place to find any other sort of frames?
2. What kind of motor and controller combos would there be for both the driving situations?
3. How many batteries would I need?
4. Gearing?

I can pretty much do anything with metal and electrical stuff so gimme your best ideas please?


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

A good start is to begin with looking at existing converts at EValbum:

http://www.evalbum.com/

There's several motorcycles hidden among the cars which will give you an idea of what you can expect.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

I have found a few possible frames. Most likely a ZX6 or ZX7 frame, just cuz I love ninjas.
Any ways I noticed how the eMoto has the batteries side ways in the frame. I was wondering if using three instead of six, so i could turn em and possibly put the fairings on, would work for the distance and speed I want?
The eMoto uses a 72v, i think about 9kw motor, and if I used only three batteries that would give me 36v and I dont know how well electric motors perform.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

I was also wondering if I changed the gear/sprocket on the motor to give me a higher top speed what, if any, would have to be changed (i.e. - more volts, more a/h, anything?)
And if I am thinking correctly (never know since I haven't slept much since I found this trying to figure something out) Wouldn't the larger gear on the motor cause me to lose acceleration?
Also if any one has any input on 36v motors as to how they perform and such it would also be nice!


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

BTW Qer I keep spacing off thanking you for that link. It gave me a few ideas of what I _eventually _want to do.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Sounds like you're being reasonable in primary goals.... long term goals of 60-80 miles might be hard unless you cram alot of lithium in there. 70-80mph is possible with the right controller/motor.

You can change the sprocket all you want, you still need a motor with enough HP to get you to that speed due to drag forces. Any time you gear for speed, you lose torque and acceleration. If you gear for torque, you lose speed. One way to offset this with a DC setup, is to go higher voltage, gear for torque... because volts = RPM, torque = current. Keep current the same, go higher in voltage and you get speed back.

Take a look on my website:
www.evfr.net

Also, if you need a motor, I've got a nice series wound for sale.... I'm not starting the second bike like I thought I would, so its for sale. The motor is an Advanced DC A89-4001, 36-72V, 6 HP continuous, 27 HP peak, (6.7"x10.4"), 50lbs. 50-350A continuous. Its 50lbs and great for a motorcycle. Its a torky little motor too. Its the same class of motor I used in my conversion. You won't need to change it out if you go higher voltage/current later. It will get you to 70+mph.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

oldhome7 said:


> BTW Qer I keep spacing off thanking you for that link. It gave me a few ideas of what I _eventually _want to do.


You're welcome.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

How much are you wanting for that motor?
I'm trying to keep things cheapish right now just to putt around town on as like a proof of concept people can see around here to get them more aware of ev's and ev conversions and then, like I said, one day go faster and farther.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

What if I did a big gear on the motor and a small gear on the wheel?
Like say the stock gear so people can see the wheel instead of it being covered by the gear on one side and the disc brake on the other?
Thinking back to ice motors and trans' taller gears gave nice top speed, if you had the torque to get there. I was thinking that since dc motors have torque wouldn't you get acceleration and top speed somewhat if I did that?


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Frodus, I just was looking through your picture gallery and I gotta ask, did you do any frame modification? I mean major ones that the fairings wouldnt cover up?
With my project idea I want it to turn out similar to yours were it looks almost stock if you take a quick glance. But of course I wouldn't do it on a Honda, I like Ninja's better.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

$350 for the motor

Smaller gear in back larger in front will cause the torque to drop linearly, cause the motor to suck more amps at low RPM, cause bad battery sag and lower your acceleration to a crawl. Keep it 4.5:1 or higher. I tried stock first and it sucked, even with a larger motor, caused high amp draw and batteries sagged like a rock.


My conversion had only 2 holes drilled in the centerstand mount so I had another mount point for my battery tray. No welding, no other modification whatsoever. I wanted it to look 100% stock.

You can't tell, everything is covered up.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Would you happen to know torque or rpms or any other specs on that motor at 72v?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

A89-4001, 36-72V, 6 HP, 27 HP peak, (6.7"x10.4"), 50lbs. 50-350A continuous

Torque isn't at a certain voltage, its at a certain amperage rating. 400A gives you 60ftlbs, 300A gives you 40ftlbs. Max RPM is 5-6krpm ... 72V gives you roughly 4600rpm.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

That seems to be a pretty powerful motor as you said. But as of right now I am short about $50 to buy it off you. Plus whatever shipping costs too.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

I am looking to run probably just 36v out of that right now. But what would anybody suggest a good controller be? If possible to run both voltages, if not its fine too but preferably a single one. And also what batteries would you suggest?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

something that can run 36 AND 72 might be hard... thats a pretty wide range.

Whats your budget anyway? Controller is going to be a couple hundred, batteries another few hundred....motor 5-800 for something decent (besides mine), gauges, shunt, contactor, cables, crimps, and another several hundred for a charger.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

As I understand it, the Alltrax 7245 will work from 24 - 72 volts.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

i eat my words... there ya go


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Budget is probably looking to be 8-10k but cheaper if possible is always better! As I currently have very little money and recently unemployed this is gonna be a LONG project.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

After posting that last one I looked at that controller and it seems very capable. So I know what controller I want, possibly the motor if I get the money before somebody else sees how much you wanted for it and takes it, now onto batteries?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

If you really want it, We can work something out. 

Shipping was about $40-50 for a 56lb motor i shipped a few months back from my workplace.

No one has really bitten on it (its small for a car, perfect for a motorcycle and not alot of motorcycle conversions)


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

This is just throwing it out there but I was thinking that maybe I could use the batteries in my car stereo setup? They are Kinetik HC2000's. May sound stupid but its an idea right? Specs from the website are:
Weight: 61 lbs. 
Ah: 102 
Amps: 2250 
Dimensions: 12" x 6.5" x 8.2" 
AGM Technology 
Sealed Non-Spillable Design 
Mount In Any Position 
Ultra Low ESR 
More Plates For Stronger Energy Density 
Higher Voltage Under Load 
Tightly Packed Cells 
Superior Heat & Vibration Resistance

Any comments? I have 8 of them. And I just got to thinking. There is gonna be one thing I miss about a ice motor. The sound of the pure power coming outta the exhaust as I rip through those gears. I know bad for gas prices and global warming but it was fun getting a fourth gear scratch sometimes.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Well tax returns are gonna be coming soon and after bills and the likes I can see if I have enough left.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

What kind of miles do you get out of that build? It looks pretty nice.
Also would that motor still be strong enough to do some wheelies and burnouts? I think I want to kind of turn it into a stunt bike a little bit but still be able to keep it a daily driver, to say, just to cruise around this tiny town.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

It's been about a week since the battery post. Do people not have any recommendations on those ones or another type that would work well for my project?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

there's alot of posts on here about batteries.... you can have range, you can have speed, you can have torque, but not all at once unless the pack is huge, and likely won't fit on a motorcycle.

What are your total range requirements?

What about torque?

What about top speed?

My range was 15-20 miles on the used batteries, should be closer to 25-30 once I install the panasonics I bought. If I get the lifepo4 that I want, i should get closer to 50. Just sold my motor, but it could do burnouts if you geared it right. I want top speed, so I'm gearing it for decent torque with a top speed of 80 or so.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Range for now would be fine anywhere between 5-15 miles.

Torque. I don't know. Because I'm thinking more torque is gonna need closer gear ratios which like you said is going to cause a battery lag meaning more batteries. So if possible maybe enough to just do a burnout with both feet on the ground so my weight is not involved. Also maybe enough torque to pull a wheelie. If that's going to be to big a project for now I can wait for those because that's just showing off, not really essential to the bike working.

Top speed for now would be about 25-35 in town. *Tiny stretch in town for like five blocks is the only 35, and theirs a stoplight involved.*

From what I just put wrote down here and then rereading your range seems like your batteries would work, right?
If so how much were yours each?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Range is completely realistic, top speed isn't that high, so if you put a small front and large rear sprocket on, you should be able to make it pull hard... but be careful, it might pull you off the bike, Motors have lots of torque.... but you should be able to do a burnout.


As far as batteries, they're more expensive if you buy ones and twos... but I bought with a group. I think they're 80-100bucks new. My panasonics are actually for sale if you're interested. I've got 13 of them, 26lbs each, and I can ship freight. I would like to get 45 each. $550 for all of them (plus freight). They're brand new and never used. Always trickle charged while in storage.
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-X1228P_LC-X1228AP.pdf

The only reason I'm selling, is that I'm going in with a group on some lifepo4 batteries.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Like I said before I have no money right now till my tax return comes in. Even then I have to spend it all on my nice ice car so I can find a job to but some of this stuff.

And the motor you sold. Was that the one you offered to me?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

yeah, someone offered $525 shipped for it.

I can hold the batteries a little while if you want, they're not going anywhere.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Nah, you don't have to hold em. I probably won't be getting the money any time soon.
I just like to have this all planned out and know what I'm gonna do for when I start, ya know?
The motor that replaced the one you were offering is like $750 and it's the exact same specs so I think I'm gonna stay here finalize the details till I get the money and then start buying everything. And I'll definitely be posting pictures all the way along the build.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Hey guys, it's been over a year since I last posted on here. I almost forgot about this whole site. I just wanted to update you all on my project.

Back in August I bought me, for my birthday, an old 1971 Honda CL450 for $30. Motor was locked up, no gas tank, no seat, pretty much nothing on it. But, it is a nice rolling chassis with a bit of rust on the handle bars but overall it is in great shape for how old it is. Probably gonna need a brake job and new tires but for $30 I ain't complaining since it gets my project started. Hopefully in the next couple days I could throw up some pictures on here and see what you all think.

Just thought I would update you guys on this, so you didn't think I fell of the face of the earth or lost interest or something.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

Sorry for all the bad lighting and picture quality. I got a bunch more photos, if somebody wants to see more of the bike. Hopefully I can get a better camera.


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## oldhome7 (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm having troubles deciding on a motor, can somebody give me a few pointers? I'm wanting either the Mars ME0709 or ME0708 they both run at the same top rpm but at different voltages. The 8 hits it at 48v and the 9 at 72v. This is all just a little confusing, especially those performance charts.


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