# PolyPlus Batteries Could Someday Power 500 Miles Electric Car



## EVDL Archive (Jul 26, 2007)

David Herron looks at California company developing both lithium-air and lithium-water batteries with 10,000 watt hours per kilogram energy density.

More...


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## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

"PolyPlus is currently testing samples of its lithium-water battery and expects the product to be commercially available in 2013."

At 1,300 Watt-hours/kilogram that would certainly make things interesting if they can meet that target production date.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

HMMMM, just about the time the experts here say my FLA pack should die a slow agonizing death.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I remember reading up on this company years ago when I was still on the fence with lithium and hadn't bought the first parts for my car. I'm cautiously optimistic about this because it appears they are still in existence. This *could* indicate that their claims are not completely made of vapour, but as always we'll have to wait and see.

What I found interesting is the difference between the theoretical limit in energy density, and the practical reality of batteries that have actually been built. Lithium Sulphur and Lithium Air have ridiculously high theoretical limits that could yield decades of development even after the minimum practical storage has been established.

In theory, ranges beyond 2000 miles are possible.......in theory.....

But if you think about it, we're simply looking at a chemical storage system. Gasoline isn't really all that different other than most of the design work has been done for us. So really, there's no reason a battery can't match or even beat the chemical energy potential of a petroleum based fuel.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

david85 said:


> In theory, ranges beyond 2000 miles are possible.......in theory.....


I'm much more concerned with cost than capacity. Once range gets around 500 (and Tesla's not that far off) the largest issue will be if you can charge anywhere besides at the neighborhood nuclear reactor.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I'm much more concerned with cost than capacity.


Absolutely. That's why so many of us are running LiFePO4 batteries; performance is adequate, but its the cost that was a game changer.



Ziggythewiz said:


> Once range gets around 500 (and Tesla's not that far off) the largest issue will be if you can charge anywhere besides at the neighborhood nuclear reactor.


Also true, but its very rare that anyone needs to drive more than 500-1000 miles in one shot and then keep going the next day.

I don't think there will ever be a definitive moment where EVs will quash internal combustion. More likely (if it happens) will be a gradual transition in which fossil fuels will still play a critical, if reduced role. But even that is a long way off....

Of course, if you could install a nuclear ractor in the car....


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

david85 said:


> Also true, but its very rare that anyone needs to drive more than 500-1000 miles in one shot and then keep going the next day.


True, hard to get over my lead mentality that batteries need to be kept full. I suppose with a 2K EV you could make a monthly trip to The Reactor or just daily charge more than you drive and bank the extra for a longer trip.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Ziggythewiz said:


> True, hard to get over my lead mentality that batteries need to be kept full. I suppose with a 2K EV you could make a monthly trip to The Reactor or just daily charge more than you drive and bank the extra for a longer trip.


Yup. I don't have a long daily commute, but even with the occasional trip downtown during the week, I generally recharge on the weekend and thats with ~60% charge remaining. 95% recharge takes me about 7-8 hours but its been a while since I've tested that.

Its still not as fast as a fillup, but I rather like not having to stop at a station to refuel/recharge so I don't mind the car eating while it sleeps.


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## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

After the Volt fires, I don't leave mine charging when I sleep anymore!


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> After the Volt fires, I don't leave mine charging when I sleep anymore!


 I didn't think any caught fire while in private hands.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

There were some involved in house fires as well, I think in each case the car and its charger were innocent.


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I'm much more concerned with cost than capacity. Once range gets around 500 (and Tesla's not that far off) the largest issue will be if you can charge anywhere besides at the neighborhood nuclear reactor.


That, surprisingly, is less of an issue if the battery costs come down enough.

That is because you can have a continuously charging reserve battery in your home, and it can be used to "quick charge" the car.

Admittedly, 2,000 mile range will take a bit longer...


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

david85 said:


> Of course, if you could install a nuclear ractor in the car....


Why wait?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Yeah, NASA's long had briefcase sized nuclear reactors, I want one of those. I already have pleny of lead for shielding.


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## Arlo (Dec 27, 2009)

This is cool. I am also cautiously optimistic. I don't think charge times are an issue. You just nee to look at it like this. If you use x amount of kw/h a day then you can leave it plugged in over night and put > x in over night this way after a few nights it will be fully charged then you will just be topping it up every night. There is a few ways to fast charge as well. You can always have some batteries in your garage always charging then use them to dumb energy to the car when you get home! Or you can switch the pack out when needed..... Charging pads are cool cause then you can just park over it and it will do the rest you don't need to worry about a thing! In the end we know better batteries are coming because there is so many anouncemnts about them and so many people trying to solve the same problem. It is a race so they wil try to get them out asap to make some money before somethign better is out!


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