# Two 60V chargers to charge 120V pack



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What batteries are you using?


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey Ace...

Why pay more for two cheap 60v charger when you can buy a cheap 120v charger for less?

Just a example: http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=10


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I haven't bought the pack yet but my intention is to go with 12 x 100Ah leisure batteries. My commute is only 12 miles round trip so I'm hoping to keep the lead in good condition.

Yabert: do you know if that charger can be spec'd to 120V? Only 96V on the listing. Or maybe I just go for 96V pack and access cheap chargers and save on the pack too...??

I see I need too do some more digging. Cheap things from the States often end up quite expensive once delivery to the UK and import taxes are taken into account...damn Rip-off Britian!!!!


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I see what you mean about some chargers being cheap. I know Kelly's controllers aren't that well regarded but I am tempted by their chargers...

I found this which is great!!!

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=280078#post280078


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What's a leisure battery? Most 12Vs I'm aware of aren't suited to EV use.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

A leisure battery is a deep cycle battery used for marine or camping.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> A leisure battery is a deep cycle battery used for marine or camping.


Hope you don't mind replacing em at least every year.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Really? If you were going to buy 100 AH lead what would you go for?

Please don't answer 'lithium'!!


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

going off-topic a bit:

your lead acid pack isn't going to be cheap in the long run. Calculate how far you'd get with lead pack and cheap lithium pack over their expected cycle life. You don't need 100Ah lithium to match 100Ah lead pack. 60Ah will do. You will not get full 100Ah from lead pack. More like 60%. Those 12V marine/deep-cycle batteries might last 100-200 cycles and performance is constantly degrading. You'll be replacing your pack in a year like Ziggythewiz said. Lithium doesn't have this problem and will probably last 100 000km of regular driving.

I was going to go that cheap route too. I mean buying cheapest deep-cycle lead acids for first conversion but quickly changed my mind when I made some calculations. 8-12x 12V batteries would have been 1/4 of the cost of equivalent lithium pack but expected cycle life was 5x worse too. Oh and that performance degrading and less range and more weight and water levels and whatever else.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

I know, I know, I know...you're right...you are, you are, you are 

I've been trying to avoid listening to everyone in the hope that I could just sneak in cheap lead and by some stroke of luck manage to get a pack that would suffice. I know I'm only kidding myself and that lithium would prove cheaper in the long run.

Right, and let you be my witnesses, I WILL do the lithium calc and make a very serious decision...very soon!!


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Ace_bridger said:


> Yabert: do you know if that charger can be spec'd to 120V? Only 96V on the listing.


Yes... I had a quotation in the past for a 144v 1500w charger.
P.S. This site is based in china! You can probably find a charger elsewhere.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Yabert: thanks for that, good info.

Mora: I've had a quote of £1600 for a lithium pack 60Ah 120V which is sounding more avhievable.

Going further off topic: I calculate that this pack would give me 20 mile range which would be fine (based on 350 Wh/mile which is conservative I think)


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I understand the difficulty paying up front for lithium, I'm in the same boat. I tried to go the cheapo marine battery route, assuming that with the warranty, they'd be by far the cheapest option.

Turns out the warranty ain't worth much because the Sam's Clubs around here only test for starting power, which marines have plenty of, but they only need 1/2 sec - 5 sec to pass a test with flying colors. My batteries that are down to 20% capacity test at 25% over spec (cranking amps).

If at all possible go lithium. You can do a small lithium pack for only ~2-3x the cost of lead, and it should last 5-15 years instead of 2-3. If you must do the lead, go 8V GC batts at a minimum.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

The intention is that I'll keep the car for as long as physically possible. It's got a good motor in it and the car itself is solid and rust free so should go on for some time I hope. Lithium is the right choice...I'll have to sneak them in under the radar!!!


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Ace,

You are quoting only £1600 for a 120v pack of 60Ah lithium?  Have you included shipping to the UK,then import duty and VAT on that, as it is a much lower cost than anything I've been quoted to get cells to the UK!

If you are thinking of going with the large prizmatic cells (sinopoly?) although the 60Ah cells should reach your modest range requirements, you'll need to be very light footed. My worry would be you'll shorten the life expectancy of the cells severely, as at 120v you're going to be running at a ball park of 1.5C minimum in your Golf on level roads at anything around 50mph. Higher speeds, acceleration and inclines will put you well over 3C for a lot of the time. 

I think you might want to consider at least 100Ah to lessen the constant loading on the cells.

Regards, Paul


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## mora (Nov 11, 2009)

1600 GBP for 120V/60Ah pack is cheap indeed. I'd go that route if other option would be lead. You can always up the voltage later by adding more cells in series if your controller and other components allow that. Motor amps will stay high while battery amps stay low. Especially when going slow or accelerating gently.


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Mora...alway there with sound advice! 

I'm awaiting confirmation that that price includes VAT, import duties and delivery within the UK.

I'm also hedging my bets by looking at Trojan deep cycle. That's what the previous owner ran successfully for 7000+ miles and along the drag strip at Santa Pod!!!

I've found some secondhand Trojans that would give me 72V and 225Ah. Low top speed but decent range? My commute is around town with no freeway or high speed routes.

I'm hoping to go with a Paul and Sabrina 144V/500A controller with the rest of the build sufficient to up grade the pack later upto the top limit of this controller.

I was out at the car today and how handsome the Golf looked. It really is a great car and I can't wait...just need to move house and then squeeze in the build before baby number two arrives in May!! 

Cheers for all the advice,

Ace


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## Ace_bridger (Nov 22, 2011)

Up-date on cost of lithium delivered to the UK.

38 60Ah Sinopoly cells delivered to my door for £2250.

I'm tempted to get 38 and save for another 38 to take the load off and reduce running them at a high C level, following advice on this thread.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Ace_bridger said:


> I know, I know, I know...you're right...you are, you are, you are
> 
> I've been trying to avoid listening to everyone in the hope that I could just sneak in cheap lead and by some stroke of luck manage to get a pack that would suffice. I know I'm only kidding myself and that lithium would prove cheaper in the long run.
> 
> Right, and let you be my witnesses, I WILL do the lithium calc and make a very serious decision...very soon!!


 Some calculations and graph comparing LiFePO4, lead acid, and gas are here:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=274836&postcount=81

Click on the tab *Battery Table* at the bottom.


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