# 1 @#$! Bolt



## rmacey (Apr 3, 2009)

Re: Conversion of 1985 VW Cabriolet
I removed all the bolts except for one off the tranny on the passenger side. That one bolt is the only thing keeping the engine in (except the engine mounts themselves). If anyone has tips, secrets etc for hard to remove bolts, now would be a good time to share. I would be most appreciative. I sprayed some special lubricant I got at the hardware store and that hasn't worked. Since the bolt is parallet to ground, I'm not sure the lube gets to the threads (maybe if I tip car on its side).

I'm fearful of stripping this bolt because I will need it again.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I think PB Blaster has been proven to be the best spray lube to use. What sort of wrench are you using, a 6 point socket? Can you use a cheater pipe for more leverage? There are some special sockets for grabbing a chewed up bolt head as well.


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## jaspersk (Jun 26, 2008)

If you can do it safely, heating up the bolt with a handheld propane torch has always worked for me. Focus on the nut or the metal that holds the threads as you want that to expand.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

What is the actual problem?
Is it too tight?
Is it inaccessible?
Is your socket/spanner not fitting properly?
Is the head damaged?
Is the threaded end of the bolt visible and corroded?

Extra leaverage can result in a damaged bolt head. Less leverage and a shock to the threads is better.

Using a tight fitting combination spanner helps, use one that is as flat as possible with little or no off set. Maybe one that is slightly the wrong size, gently tapped onto the bolt head so it is really tight, helps.
If you can fit the ring end of the spanner to the bolt head so that the spanner is near horizontal and then place a jack under the far, open, end of the spanner to give a little bit of load in the right direction. Then get a soft metal drift onto the head of the bolt and strike with a hammer. The shock from the hammer blow and the leaverage from the jack sometimes helps and acts like an impact driver.

Alternatively, a few well aimed hammer strikes on the end of the spanner, in a counterclockwise direction, can also achieve the same result.

Do make sure the vehicle is safely secured and stable before getting underneath it to do anything.


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## Drew (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm assuming that the bolt isn't rounded off, so its just a case of breaking the hold.

Try;

Hitting the bolt head square on from the top with a ball peen hammer or similar, this will break up any corrosion which is holding it on.

Freeze and release, loctite and a number of other companies make a product like this for freezing bolts, this also shouldn't damage gaskets or bushes nearby. Follow instructions on the can.

An impact driver, striking the driver has a similar effect to the first suggestion but also has the bonus of driving the bolt.

Putting a ring spanner on the bolt and hitting it with a nylon or leather hammer. Its the poor mans impact driver  Don't do this with a metal hammer as it will destroy the spanner.

If none of those work then I'd suggest simply cutting the bolt head off if its accessible then pulling the engine out and drilling the bolt, then putting in a thread replacement as the thread will probably be totally stuffed anyway if none of that worked.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I think PB Blaster has been proven to be the best spray lube to use....


It's the best _commercial_ spray lube you can use, but I remember reading somewhere (forgot where) that a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF is about 5x better than PB Blaster at penetrating rusted or seized threads.

Acetone is frequently the only ingredient in cheap nail polish remover, btw


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## rmacey (Apr 3, 2009)

I sprayed PB Blaster on it. I've hit it with a hammer (made me feel better). What is a combination spanner anyway?

I don't think the bolt is rounded off (stripped). But I fear it's getting there. This is an odd bolt connecting the transmission to the axle. It's an 8mm 12-point (triple square) socket head bolt. Six of these hold each axle shaft to the inner drivers on the transmission. It's difficult to access because it's between the engine and the passenger compartment. Also there's a rubber thing covering the joint. This interferes with getting my bit straight into the head.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

rmacey said:


> I sprayed PB Blaster on it. I've hit it with a hammer (made me feel better). What is a combination spanner anyway?
> 
> I don't think the bolt is rounded off (stripped). But I fear it's getting there. This is an odd bolt connecting the transmission to the axle. It's an 8mm 12-point (triple square) socket head bolt. Six of these hold each axle shaft to the inner drivers on the transmission. It's difficult to access because it's between the engine and the passenger compartment. Also there's a rubber thing covering the joint. This interferes with getting my bit straight into the head.


A ring spanner is the British term for a the closed end of a combination wrench.  

Use heat my son, lots of heat... .and I don't mean a propane torch. Oxy-Acetylene should do the trick. 
Use one of two methods.... if you can heat the area that embosses the threaded hole, do that and try and break the screw free while still hot. (I'm assuming it's a screw since it would be a bolt if it had a nut on the other end...and u probably wouldn't have this issue). 
If you can only access the screw head, heat it up till a dull red in low level ambient light...then let it completely cool before trying to break it free. 
The first method gets the metal around it to expand, the second causes the screw to shrink ever so slightly after cooling.

Penetrating oils don't seem to really work on the most stubborn seized fasteners....at least they never have for me.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2009)

No don't use heat down there. You have too much rubber to be safe with that kind of heat. So a 12 point. The axle shaft bolts are tough to get access but not impossible. Put the transmission in neutral and rotate the axle around so the bolt is best accessible and then pull the rubber back enough to get that socket head on and by all means use the proper socket. Use a long extension to clear the area so you can move your ratchet. I am going to be doing this on a New Beetle real soon. I have done it before. It can be done. If you can raise the car up and put it on stands you should be able to access it better. 

What's with the HEAT thing guys? Gads you want this guy to burn his car to the ground before he can convert it?

Pete


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

gottdi said:


> No don't use heat down there. You have too much rubber to be safe with that kind of heat. So a 12 point. The axle shaft bolts are tough to get access but not impossible. Put the transmission in neutral and rotate the axle around so the bolt is best accessible and then pull the rubber back enough to get that socket head on and by all means use the proper socket. Use a long extension to clear the area so you can move your ratchet. I am going to be doing this on a New Beetle real soon. I have done it before. It can be done. If you can raise the car up and put it on stands you should be able to access it better.
> 
> What's with the HEAT thing guys? Gads you want this guy to burn his car to the ground before he can convert it?
> 
> Pete


Oh, thanks Pete. I wan't envisioning what this thing looked like... yep, heat will melt that rubber stuff...


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

rmacey,

I spent years working on VW, Porsche, Audi and other Euros. They all have used this axle attaching method at one time or another. 8 mm and 10 mm are the most common sizes.
The problem you are experiancing is a nasty one Those bolts are the equivalent to U.S. grade 8 they are hard and they strech when you tighten them. they are nasty.

Point, those joints are filled with very flamable grease, use heat with extrem caution

Here are the three stages I've used, 

1.) An air impact wrench. You must use a good bit, most inport autopart stores will stock these bits. Clean out the hesd of the bolt completly, tap the bit into the socket head. Lots of little shocks will usually break these free. You really need to lean in on the wrench to keep the bit tight into the head of the bolt. Sometimes it helps to put the two bolts on each side of the one you are trying to remove back in to relieve some of the tension.

2.) If you strip out the socket head the next try is with a chisel and hammer or better an air chisel. About 60% of the time I was able to knock them loose.

3.) If that doesen't work get a die grinder and cut off wheel. First cut the head off the bolt, then slide the joint apart enough to cut the bolt off with the cut off wheel. If you don't do this you have to dis-connect the knuckle from the control arm to get enough room to slide the joint off the bolt shank. Try to leave enough shank that you can grip it with a good stud removal tool.

At this point you can use some heat but be careful, you can cook the output flange seal. On thing I have had some success with was slipping a nut over the shank and welding it to the shank then wait for it to cool befor attempting to remove it.

I'm sure others who have had to deal with these bolts have come up with their own favorites. 

Good Luck


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

rmacey said:


> I sprayed PB Blaster on it. I've hit it with a hammer (made me feel better). What is a combination spanner anyway?


A combination spanner is a wench that has a multi-point ring at one end and open jaws at the other end. They are usually flat but often the ring end has a slight bend to it. It is easier to use in this case then a ring spanner as they tend to have large offsets at both ends making them fall off when you hit them.

If access is difficult for an impact driver then you may need to get an impact socket head with built in universal joint or use a long slim extension shaft with a standard impact socket.

It is possible to use the torque stored in a long extension to your benefit. Get the longest shaft you have and load it up so that it is acting like a torsion spring, then smack it on the end with a soft face mallet to transmit the shock to the bolt head.


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## Drew (Jul 26, 2009)

Ring spanners; (these ones are offset)









combination









Open ended spanners










BTW you can pull the boots off down the drive shafts if you like, they're to protect the CVs from dust, which isn't an issue when you're in the workshop, just roll the boot off carefully from the end.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

One thing I invested in pretty quick was using 6-cut instead of 12-cut spanners and sockets (right word?), like in the attachment. The risk of damaging the nut is far much less with those.

Of course, it doesn't make it easy to loose the darn nuts, but at least it takes a lot more force before they turn round.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Of course they don't work too well on the 12 point bolt heads he's dealing with


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Of course they don't work too well on the 12 point bolt heads he's dealing with


Oups. Sorry. Missed that.

Why on earth did someone come up with those to begin with...?


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2009)

I think guys he is just having a hard time gaining good access to the bolt so his socket it square and not at some godforsaken angle that will strip the head off. Anyway the 12 point was used because it has better holding power. More faces more better 

He needs to rotate the axle so he has better access and then move that boot out of the way and wiggle that socket head on. Mine uses the 12 point or triple square allen style head. Much easier access than the bolt head style. 

I am now ready to remove my transmission from my TDI for replacement. All 12 of those bolts will need to be removed. He thinks he has problems 

Actually no problem at all. I got the right tools for the job. 

Pete


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Is this bolt/screw on the drive shaft CV or is it a transmission to engine bolt?

You could remove the suspension member to gain more access or remove the engine/transmission mounting on one side to tilt the assembly a little for the same effect. I would be tempted to put all the other bolts back in before doing this to save stressing the stubbon one.

It's always easy when you have the right tools, once upon a time I did too. Not anymore though.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Try putting all (or at least most) of the other bolts back in. When there is only one bolt left, the structure can separate a little bit, except at the one bolt -- this now binds the last bolt and makes it hard to remove.

This is a reason I just loosen each nut or bolt a fraction of a turn when removing something, and then start removing nuts/bolts entirely.

Also, can you get an impact wrench on it? If you don't have an impact wrench, get one and a cheap compressor -- you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

This seems to be the way of car repair -- the one bolt that takes 90% of the time!



rmacey said:


> Re: Conversion of 1985 VW Cabriolet
> I removed all the bolts except for one off the tranny on the passenger side. That one bolt is the only thing keeping the engine in (except the engine mounts themselves). If anyone has tips, secrets etc for hard to remove bolts, now would be a good time to share. I would be most appreciative. I sprayed some special lubricant I got at the hardware store and that hasn't worked. Since the bolt is parallet to ground, I'm not sure the lube gets to the threads (maybe if I tip car on its side).
> 
> I'm fearful of stripping this bolt because I will need it again.


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## tcfootball (May 4, 2008)

These are the bits that will need to be used to remove those pesky bolts.


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## tcfootball (May 4, 2008)

I have had some run ins with these bolts. They are fairly easy to get ahold of, so dont ever put one back in that is showing signs of stripping. If you cannot get it out/ or do strip it, grab a pair of vice grip pliers. I assume you have the vehicle raised with wheels off the ground. If so, you can rotate the axle to get the bolt to the lower rear orientation to the vehicle. From there get a good solid grab with the vice grips and you should be able to break it free. Sometimes it feels like you are gonna break your hands getting those vice grips locked in, so be ready for that! Good luck w/ this. 

Vice grips.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2009)

If you strip it with those triple square sockets then you installed the tool into the socket wrong or not far enough in. Those will work perfect. I have a set. You do need them for working on your vehicle.

Pete


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## rmacey (Apr 3, 2009)

I'll give that a try. Thanks.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

If at first you don't succeed...


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Ok Seriously...

Have you jacked up the engine and removed the motor mounts (MMs)?

Maybe you can get better access at the bolt with the MMs removed.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2009)

removing motor mounts will not make it easier. The New Beetle is harder to access than the older VW's so it should be a piece of cake. Seems like they are not accessing it correctly. No one ever posted pictures of the bolt in question. A good photo or two up close and personal should help. Good photos that are not blurred or out of focus..


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> If at first you don't succeed...


That's the same way I go fishing!


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

If dynamite is too drastic, there's always a SawsAll.


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## tcfootball (May 4, 2008)

Get those pesky bolts out?


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## rmacey (Apr 3, 2009)

tcfootball said:


> Get those pesky bolts out?


 No, and I'm frustrated, humiliated and disappointed. I've started to remove the axle from the wheel thinking that I'll lift the engine a bit and can get to the pesky bolt that way.

Thanks for asking. I can use all the encouragement I can get.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

Where are the photos? It will help. Let me see what you have tool wise and get some photos of the offending bolt you need to remove. You should have this off already. Guess you can't work on it every day. 

Pete


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

air hammer???? Can ya slice the head off????


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## tcfootball (May 4, 2008)

Here is an example of the half shaft mounting to the trans axle.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2009)

Good photo. So are you having trouble getting the socket to fit? Rotate the axel to where you can get the best angle for removing and move that rubber back (tough sometimes) to where you can squiggle that socket into place. Get your extension and then your ratchet and have at it. Keep the tire from rotating and be sure you are loosening your bolt and not tightening the bolt. Righty tighty lefty loosey is the way to go. You can get disorientated under the car so beware.

Is the head stripped? If so cut it off then use a square end easy out to remove it. Your not giving us much information here to help you. Give all the information you can about what is happening what happened besides a stuck bolt and your frustrated. So are we. Stuck or not this should be an easy removal and most will come right off with some effort. There is no reason unless you forgot to mention some things. Good photo but you should give a photo of your vehicle and not an example. I already know what they look like, I want to see your shaft and bolt head to assess what needs to be done. If this is your's then you forgot to show the bolt head!

Pete


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

rmacy is the one with the problem not tcfootball.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

I dunno if this is any help but here goes. On my bmw i had to undo 3 bolts on the driveshaft donut at the gearbox end. Very tight access and the shaft kept turning despite being in gear and hadbrake on. Simple solution. I removed the plugs , filled the cylinders with water , plugs back in. No more turning DON'T do this if you want to sell / keep the engine.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> rmacy is the one with the problem not tcfootball.


My bad! Need photos from the real deal.


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## tcfootball (May 4, 2008)

gottdi said:


> My bad! Need photos from the real deal.


No prob. Just giving everybody an idea what he is dealing with. They can be a pita to get out. Just need to wiggle the tool into the bolt head. The rubber on the inner cv joint is the hardest obstacle.


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