# [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How about something like this ( Item #CB2410 on evparts.com )? We include it
in every S-10 kit that we sell. Hope this helps. -Tom



> Pikala <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Does anyone have a recommendation for an actual high current kill switch
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That switch is rated only for 48V. I would not rely on it to break any significant current at 144VDC.

While it says its 10 second carry rating is 2750 amps, that is way different from its break current. And at 144V that break current
is sure to be very low. 

This is not a good switch to use for a safety shut down :-(

For a safe and reliable safety disconnect that is rated for what we are doing in the EV community I use these, mainly the RS200
version with associated copper link (which goes in place of the fuse) for use solely as a physical disconnect.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/316957.pdf

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pikala
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 4:30 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation for an actual high current kill switch (not
> connector pull) for a 144V 500A system? I was considering a switch like the
> heavy duty http://bluesea.com/category/4/14/productline/4 Blue Sea Systems
> battery switch , but realized that it doesn't take 2/0 cable. Thoughts?
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Kill-Switch-
> Recommendation-tp2236712p2236712.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

According to my info, the breaker is rated at 160V, 250A continuous, with
1000A for 4 seconds and 10,000A peak.- Tom




> Mike Willmon <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > That switch is rated only for 48V. I would not rely on it to break any
> > significant current at 144VDC.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I guess I should refine my request and say that I am looking for an
inexpensive switch. Sub $75? Ideally, sub $50.

As for the maximum voltage, shouldn't I really look at maximum power
(voltage x current)? 144V x 500A is 72,000W peak. The Albright ED252B does
250A continuous at 150VDC = 37,500W; 150,000W for 1 min. Is there anything
that does 72,000W continuous?
-- 
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Kill-Switch-Recommendation-tp2236712p2236768.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

To be clear, I was replying about the Heineman breaker that I had noted in
my first response and not the battery switch that Blue Sea provides. -Tom



> Thos True <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > According to my info, the breaker is rated at 160V, 250A continuous, with
> > 1000A for 4 seconds and 10,000A peak.- Tom
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If it were me, I would be looking at the industrial salvage yards, using a
list of these components ( you could use almost any 150V + rated 500A DC
rated breaker as long as it has a good housing to go with it). I would
recommend one near a marine location.
On the other hand, just how much are you willing to spend to avoid a nasty
accident?-Tom



> Pikala <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I guess I should refine my request and say that I am looking for an
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you are looking for this to be a "safety disconnect" in the event of a full on failure of the controller, then you need to look
at the current break specifications of whatever device you are looking at. Typically a manufacturer (be it breakers, switches,
contactors etc) will give a chart showing acceptable currents at particular voltage levels the device will operate reliably. For
example a breaker may have a continuous rating of 250 amps. It may have a 3 second rating of 1000 amps. It may have an
instantaneous interrupt rating of 1300 amps. These will likely be at the rated voltage. For contactors you will see the current
interrupt ratings at different voltages and the number of cycles it will likely handle this interrupt. At lower voltages they will
typically interrupt more instantaneous current.

Typically in the EV's that we do, the devices we seek for safety disconnects may well handle the continuous power we look to pass
through them. They typically do not handle the combination of higher voltage and relatively higher currents we can pull through the
higher power controllers.

The voltage rating really should never be exceeded except only under some very special circumstances. The result of opening this
BlueSea switch which is rated at 48V, under a 150V and high current load is that the current will jump the relatively small gap the
switch provides and continue to maintain an arc. This can catch your vehicle on fire. It could also weld the contacts closed such
that it would not fully open and you would get current flowing continuously when you are trying to shut it off in an emergency.

I never recommend anyone skimp on any safety related devices. If you are trying to buy insurance to protect your life in the event
of a controller failure (which does happen) Then buy GoldStar A1+ insurance and not Snoopy's Playland Comic insurance ;-)

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pikala
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:39 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation
> 
> 
> I guess I should refine my request and say that I am looking for an
> inexpensive switch. Sub $75? Ideally, sub $50.
> 
> As for the maximum voltage, shouldn't I really look at maximum power
> (voltage x current)? 144V x 500A is 72,000W peak. The Albright ED252B does
> 250A continuous at 150VDC = 37,500W; 150,000W for 1 min. Is there anything
> that does 72,000W continuous?
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Kill-Switch-
> Recommendation-tp2236712p2236768.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Pikala,

Getting a kill switch does not actually need any additional
components and still be using good quality components and
good installation practice.
How? Simple, especially if you already have a fuse in the pack
and a properly rated DC breaker somewhere in the circuit.
Mount the breaker such that it can handle being flipped 
off using a wire through the eye on the handle, or 
whatever other mechanical connection to the breaker works
in your EV.
I have seen a breaker mounted high up on the firewall and
operated from one of the existing dash controls which
already had a steel cable attached, the same way that
hand brake and throttle cable is operated.
Since this will be an emergency disconnect, there is no
need to provide a return spring - just pop the hood and
flip the breaker back on if you trip it.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Pikala
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation


I guess I should refine my request and say that I am looking for an
inexpensive switch. Sub $75? Ideally, sub $50.

As for the maximum voltage, shouldn't I really look at maximum power
(voltage x current)? 144V x 500A is 72,000W peak. The Albright ED252B
does 250A continuous at 150VDC = 37,500W; 150,000W for 1 min. Is there
anything that does 72,000W continuous?
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Kill-Switch
-Recommendation-tp2236712p2236768.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is exactly what we are doing on the Junior Dragster. NHRA rules require the emergency shutoff to operate such that the driver
cannot turn it back on from inside the cockpit. So we got a $12 generic choke cable, fed it back to the breaker, drilled a small
hole through the handle, ran the solid wire through it with a cable clamp on the back side. Pull the choke cable from the dash
position and it trips the breaker. If you push the choke cable back in the wire slides through but does not reactivate the breaker.
But, the breaker is still rated for the voltages and currents we are running 

The other safety is that there is a thumb switch on the steering wheel that opens the coil line to the main contactor (which is also
rated for the voltages and currents we are running).

So Cor is right, if you already have the necessary rated disconnects you could manually actuate them for safety purposes, rather
inexpensively.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:27 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation
> 
> Hi Pikala,
> 
> Getting a kill switch does not actually need any additional
> components and still be using good quality components and
> good installation practice.
> How? Simple, especially if you already have a fuse in the pack
> and a properly rated DC breaker somewhere in the circuit.
> Mount the breaker such that it can handle being flipped
> off using a wire through the eye on the handle, or
> whatever other mechanical connection to the breaker works
> in your EV.
> I have seen a breaker mounted high up on the firewall and
> operated from one of the existing dash controls which
> already had a steel cable attached, the same way that
> hand brake and throttle cable is operated.
> Since this will be an emergency disconnect, there is no
> need to provide a return spring - just pop the hood and
> flip the breaker back on if you trip it.
> 
> Success,
> 
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Pikala
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:09 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation
> 
> 
> I guess I should refine my request and say that I am looking for an
> inexpensive switch. Sub $75? Ideally, sub $50.
> 
> As for the maximum voltage, shouldn't I really look at maximum power
> (voltage x current)? 144V x 500A is 72,000W peak. The Albright ED252B
> does 250A continuous at 150VDC = 37,500W; 150,000W for 1 min. Is there
> anything that does 72,000W continuous?
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Kill-Switch
> -Recommendation-tp2236712p2236768.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The page of specs state the 1/2 inch threaded terminals will accept 4/0 and
that means 0000 which is almost twice the diameter of the 00 AWG cable you
are using, I just don't see a problem. It is just better than it has to be.

Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM *
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
It=92s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity
to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation=92s 217 million passenger
vehicles.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------


> Pikala <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Does anyone have a recommendation for an actual high current kill switch
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

For 2750 amps at 48V carrying for 6 seconds its fine. But likely breaking 500 amps at 150V it will not effectively isolate the
current in an emergency if you need it. It is just not specified for EV use, unless you are doing a 48V conversion..
Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Miles
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 3:56 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation
> 
> The page of specs state the 1/2 inch threaded terminals will accept 4/0 and
> that means 0000 which is almost twice the diameter of the 00 AWG cable you
> are using, I just don't see a problem. It is just better than it has to be.
> 
> Regards,
> Dennis Lee Miles
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> It's estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
> capacity
> to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation's 217 million passenger
> vehicles.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


> Pikala <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a recommendation for an actual high current kill switch
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.affordable-solar.com/midnite.solar.250.amp.125VDC.panel.mount.breaker.htm
These are good for a 96 volt system (125VDC rating), 10,000A interrupt.
250A continuous should be enough for about a 500A controller... You can
get them up to 300 amps IIRC, though 250 is the largest common one sold for
solar installations.
Z



> Mike Willmon <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > For 2750 amps at 48V carrying for 6 seconds its fine. But likely breaking
> > 500 amps at 150V it will not effectively isolate the
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

For some pics of what Cor described: using your breaker as a
disconnect with a pull-cable mounted to the dash, see my album at:

http://picasaweb.google.ca/nicolas.drouin/ElectricGhia#5316961094006831618

This is an Airpax JLE-1-1-53-3-B4-250 breaker for a 1000A controller
and a 144V pack. (KTA Services still lists them for 175$)

It was selected to blow before the fuse in continuous over-amperage,
whereas the fuse is likely to blow first when in open circuit. It is
located at half-pack, before the 72V cable goes to the rear of the
car. If you don't have a breaker in your system, then this will solve
two problems with one relatively inexpensive component.

Regards,

-Nick
www.evablum.com/1890

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That's extremely similar to what we are doing on the Junior Dragster, you can kinda see the generic $12 Choke cable leading to the
breaker trip lever.

http://www.thefoat.com//pics/photo_126208380272046213.jpg

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nicolas Drouin
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:04 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kill Switch Recommendation
> 
> For some pics of what Cor described: using your breaker as a
> disconnect with a pull-cable mounted to the dash, see my album at:
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.ca/nicolas.drouin/ElectricGhia#5316961094006831618
> 
> This is an Airpax JLE-1-1-53-3-B4-250 breaker for a 1000A controller
> and a 144V pack. (KTA Services still lists them for 175$)
> 
> It was selected to blow before the fuse in continuous over-amperage,
> whereas the fuse is likely to blow first when in open circuit. It is
> located at half-pack, before the 72V cable goes to the rear of the
> car. If you don't have a breaker in your system, then this will solve
> two problems with one relatively inexpensive component.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Nick
> www.evablum.com/1890
> 
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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