# Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Hi Dennis,

(Subject changed to reflect the content)

I've been seriously thinking about the hybrid idea. There's a guy up in 
San Jose that had (had?) a Porsche 944 that had a range-extender 
trailer. I didn't look too hard at the idea then, but now that I want 
to do drives longer than 100 miles, it is a concern.

This is what I see as constraints for the trailer:
The generator will need to be able to provide the same voltage as the 
battery pack, and the same max current.
The trailer will need to be small enough to be towed by my car (Porsche 
914).
It would be Nice To Have space for luggage as well (since the trunks are 
now filled with batteries).

Questions:
How to control the output of the generator? I would assume that the 
current would need to drop, not the voltage.
What are the legal issues of towing a generator? Smog issues?

Not a burning issue right now, but something I want to tackle next year.

Cheers,
Peter




> Dennis Miles wrote:
> > Gentlemen, (And Ladies)
> > I have monitored many interesting discussions on this list, and like
> > David, I read every post, as I find lots of time by not watching shows like
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*



> Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> > This is what I see as constraints for the trailer:
> > The generator will need to be able to provide the same voltage as the
> > battery pack, and the same max current.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

>> What are the legal issues of towing a generator? Smog issues?

> None, as far as I know. Legislatures didn't think of it when they wrote
the laws.

Don't give them any idea's....thats all we need is more useless
legislation...

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers



> Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> > This is what I see as constraints for the trailer:
> > The generator will need to be able to provide the same voltage as the
> > battery pack, and the same max current.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Yes Peter, several range extenders have made the net and one almost made it
into production, I liked the front half of a rabbit diesel pushing an
electric rabbit . And the back 1/3 of a VW Beetle with the gas engine used
to push an electric Beetle. The generator load controls the diesel throttle
with a solenoid and spring the heavier current draw the more the solenoid
pulls the throttle open. But with an EV Pack you could let the generator run
at max efficiency level and slowly recharge the pack as you drive then shut
it clear off when you stop or the pack is recharged.
But this time I suggested a electric drive trailer pushing an unmodified
ICE auto as a transferable parallel Hybrid system. a nice simple trailer
body like a short heightwise teardrop trailer shape and use it to push
around a small or large car (Your Choice) and when you want muy a new car
and keep the trailer and all your electrics which will outlive the next 4 or
5 cars ...
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (New ! )
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
EV service mechs need training!
We want them to REALLY UNDERSTAND: EV Systems, Operation and Technology.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



> Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Hi Dennis,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

just thinking out loud. i can see a trailer with a genset working ok.
i would think that a trailer that is powered and PUSHING a car could be 
dangerous
in some instance, like the trailer going sidways over washboards. that would
push the back end of the car over. just thinking. i could be wrong.
Louis in central BC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers


> Yes Peter, several range extenders have made the net and one almost made 
> it
> into production, I liked the front half of a rabbit diesel pushing an
> electric rabbit . And the back 1/3 of a VW Beetle with the gas engine 
> used
.> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Louis,
It just is something a good driver doesn't let happen, It is possible
to "Jackknife" a vehicle pulling a loaded trailer if you drive too fast for
conditions, pick a slippery spot like sand or gravel on the surface or
cresting a hill and brake vigorously with the front brakes and the automatic
anti-skid is not working so the rear tires skid but for myself, it doesn't
happen because I pay attention to my driving. But, I have seen it happen
with a 80,000 pound loaded Semi. All the pusher trailer owners I have read
interviews from say it is not a problem. and I regularly drive with a Horse
trailer and 4 horses that grosses out to twice the tow vehicles weight and
no working trailer brakes. But I don't have a problem because I give a lot
of extra space and reduce braking effectiveness by not pushing hard on the
brake pedal. I have never jackknifed in my many years of driving.(I keep
other drivers from tailgating my horse trailer with a sign that says, "Keep
Back, HORSES, watch for yellow spray.")
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (New ! )
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
EV service mechs need training!
We want them to REALLY UNDERSTAND: EV Systems, Operation and Technology.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



> Louis Pelletier <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > just thinking out loud. i can see a trailer with a genset working ok.
> > i would think that a trailer that is powered and PUSHING a car could be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> [snip]
> > I keep other drivers from tailgating my horse trailer with a sign that sa=
> ys, "Keep
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Or, "Keep back, nuclear powered. Watch out for glowing exhaust!"



> David Nelson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [snip]
> >> I keep other drivers from tailgating my horse trailer with a sign that s=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

>
> Most of the electric cars that are scheduled to appear in the next 3
> years (Aptera, Nissan, iMiev, Th!nk, Tesla S) appear to have
> all-electric ranges around 100 to 160 miles. So I wonder if there
> would be a significant market for some time for add-on range extender
> kits. The range limitations appear to be due more to the cost of
> batteries than to limits on their size and weight. It is not clear
> how long it will take to reduce the cost for much longer ranges.
>
> Rather than building in a range extender, like the GM volt, where you
> own it and have to carry it around with you all the time, an add-on
> kit would let you add it for only the %5 to %10 percent of the time
> when you might actually need it. Therefor you would have all the
> advantages of a pure electric car %90 to %95 percent of the time.
>
> I see at least two possibilities for these kits:
>
> (a) A very small trailer. See:
> http://evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm
> for an example of a 500cc 20 KW motorcycle engine in a
> 350 lb extender trailer for an electric RAV4 that gives the
> same fuel economy as the gasoline engine RAV4
>
> (b) An aerodynamic rooftop car carrier.
>
> Now the trailer would be easy to add, but even a small trailer is
> difficult to maneuver and backup. However, I wonder if the trailer
>
could be made small and short enough so that it could be rigidly
attached to the back fender, perhaps supported on one wheel that
swivels? If the lenght of he trailer were only, say, 2.5 feet, perhaps
this would eliminate the problem of backing up.

But I also wonder if range extender kit would be light enough
to be mounted in a rooftop carrier?
We do know that aerodynamic
rooftop carriers are very common and accepted by the motoring public
and can hold 18 or more cubic feet for storage, but I don't know if
the weight of such as engine would be acceptable.

The 350 weight of the above trailer seems a lot, but I wonder if this
is mainly due to the fact that it is a variable RPM engine that is not
specifically designed for this operation, and if the wheels, axle, and
hitch might add much more weight that a rooftop carrier?

>From my calculations, for a typical 3000 lb car with a Cd of 0.28, it
would only require a gas engine with about 30 HP to provide the
*average* power needed to keep the batteries charged at 75 MPH. If a
simple fixed RPM engine can be made small and light enough we could
envision this scenario:

(a) Most of the time you drive your pure EV w/o the range-extender

(b) If you know you are about to go on a long trip, or suddenly
find yourself in that situation, you drive to a "service"
station where they add the range-extender to your roof rack.
When done, you return to the same franchise and have it removed.

This way you are relived of any maintenance or storage associated with
the range-extender.

Any thoughts on the practicality of this idea would be welcome.

-- Larry Gales




> Louis Pelletier <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > just thinking out loud. i can see a trailer with a genset working ok.
> > i would think that a trailer that is powered and PUSHING a car could be
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*



> On 23 Mar 2010 at 15:27, Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:
> 
> > >> What are the legal issues of towing a generator? Smog issues?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Hi,

There was an EV with a range extending trailer recently, that had a 2-point hitch (it cannot pivot!) and they rigged it with a single caster wheel, so the wheel pivoted with the car. It did not require you to do anything to accommodate it, other than remembering that the back of your car is further behind you than normal.

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.vox.com/library/posts/




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

It's often true ICE beats EV + Range Extender, but there are certainly cases where the range extender wins.

o You visit mom every Sunday, but it's just outside your range. You only need the range extender for 20% of the trip.

o You are promoting EVs by taking your EV to a show outside your range. It is likely better to use a range extender than towing it with a huge truck.

o You are going on a trip, but need to do many short trips at your destination. You can use the range extender just for the trip, but then drive pollution free for all the short trips at your destination.

Not an original idea, but I have wondered why more folks don't use a motorcycle for a pusher trailer. You'd have to use electric for acceleration and hills, but the motorcycle should be up to steady freeway power needs.




________________________________
From: EVDL Administrator <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 9:15:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers

... If you have to burn fossil fuel in a range extender to make a trip, you 
might as well make that trip in an ICEV. It'll be cleaner and use less 
fuel. 

Even the most efficient genset trailer I know of, the one Alan Cocconi 
designed for his original Honda conversion, couldn't match the highway fuel 
efficiency of a comparable ICE Civic. It was pretty good - but not quite. ...



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*



> Dave Roden <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >And when you do implement them, use the cleanest engines you can find - su=
> ch
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

I was looking at how hard it would be to make my own range extending
generator trailer a few weeks back.
If I get a job in San Francisco or LA, I need to either drive to LA or
SF from Fresno or pay to have my EV transported.
I was thinking that investing in a range extending trailer maybe could
cost only twice as much and then I would have it for the future.


At 400wh/mile @ 60mph that is 24Kwh so I was looking for 20Kw generator.
One thought was to spend about $1000 and buy a honda insight motor off
of ebay and stack up a second rotor to make the power.
they are 10Kw each and the motor is 70hp so 4 rotors would be 40Kw.

I am of course a little unsure how much ECM I would need, but if it is a
Hall-effect peddle, control would be easier.
Also is the 10kw rating peak

Now I am thinking that maybe just get the motor and use a re
manufactured Aircraft Generator.

Something like this

http://www.bpbsurplus.com/lc/cart.php?target=product&product_id=17366&category_id=352

Which would be better?



I still think a business oppurtunity for U-hual like rentals of Range
Extending Trailers would be timely.





> > Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> >> This is what I see as constraints for the trailer:
> >> The generator will need to be able to provide the same voltage as the
> >> battery pack, and the same max current.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Let me stop you right there.
If I only plan on using it once or twice a year
Or if I want to get my EV to a location further than it's range. (ie
it is not the trip, it is the getting EV to destination)
If I don't want to own a second ICE for those 1 or 2 trips a year
(not to mention, home backup power)

Then it has merit.

I agree though. Don't use it for commuting.
I also agree that we should use a fully emission controlled engine
and an eff gen head.

I disagree with the claims of terrible aero. It can be smooth and
small and hide behind the car.
(maybe mount on rear bumper like those power chairs?)

I do agree backing up a trailer whose wheelbase is significantly
shorter than the cars, is a challenge.
The longranger had an interesting fix for that, steering trailer wheels


A question. What about converting an engine to Natural Gas or Propane
and use those little propane tanks you can get anywhere, is that viable.
Like I said, I may have need to move my EV 400 miles soon and the last
trailering quote was rather high.

> I hate to say it, because first, it sounds like I'm preaching; and second, 
> we've gone over it a hundred times here before. But I'm going to anyway. 
> If you have to burn fossil fuel in a range extender to make a trip, you 
> might as well make that trip in an ICEV. It'll be cleaner and use less 
> fuel. 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

When I bought my EV the cheapest way to move it was to measure and
inspect
its front bumper and find a fitting tow bar on Craigslist, make sure
that the EV's steering was unlocked and find a way to solve the lighting
(not only brake and blinkers, but to move it safely and slowly I decided
to drive slowish on the freeway, maintaining a steady 50-55 so that
required well functioning lighting at a time it was quiet on the road
and
other drivers might choose to drive 80-90, so they should be able to see
me in time to avoid me.
Then I found a friend with a vehicle capable of towing, in this case a
Jeep Cherokee. I had used it before to tow a BMW-325 on a rental
single-axle
transporter (auto ambulance) but buying a second hand tow bar was
cheaper than
a single rental. Cost for the vehicle was a fresh fillup.
I later used the Jeep a third time to tow my yet unfinished EV to the
Palo Alto EV rally, I believe in 2005.
You'd need to calculate for yourself what your time is worth (driving
the
towing vehicle at reduced speeds and bringing it back) versus renting a
transporter or having someone transport it for you and comparing that
with
other options such as transport by rail (does a car-train exist where
you are?)
or the range extender in some form or shape, or a road trip with the EV
where
you go from charge point to charge point and rest/sleep there.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers

Let me stop you right there.
If I only plan on using it once or twice a year
Or if I want to get my EV to a location further than it's range. (ie
it is not the trip, it is the getting EV to destination)
If I don't want to own a second ICE for those 1 or 2 trips a year
(not to mention, home backup power)

Then it has merit.

I agree though. Don't use it for commuting.
I also agree that we should use a fully emission controlled engine
and an eff gen head.

I disagree with the claims of terrible aero. It can be smooth and
small and hide behind the car.
(maybe mount on rear bumper like those power chairs?)

I do agree backing up a trailer whose wheelbase is significantly
shorter than the cars, is a challenge.
The longranger had an interesting fix for that, steering trailer
wheels


A question. What about converting an engine to Natural Gas or Propane
and use those little propane tanks you can get anywhere, is that viable.
Like I said, I may have need to move my EV 400 miles soon and the last
trailering quote was rather high.

> I hate to say it, because first, it sounds like I'm preaching; and 
> second, we've gone over it a hundred times here before. But I'm going
to anyway.
> If you have to burn fossil fuel in a range extender to make a trip, 
> you might as well make that trip in an ICEV. It'll be cleaner and use

> less fuel.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

When I bought my Prius (Salvage, not driveable) I got hold of a
towing company in Roseville where a driver was interested in a
trip to the Bay Area with his family while picking up my car from
the Sacramento area and dropping it off in Sunnyvale, so I had my
car flatbed trailered for something around $200 just by being
flexible when he wanted to make the ride (Saturday morning) and
I had to be at the pickup point to sign papers, but since I needed
to go there anyway to inspect the Ebay buy and hand over the check
that was not an extra burden, just a short wait... I drove a small
rental car as I needed to go there anyway, so I did not have to
share the cab with the tow drivers family.

If you go to SF then you may want to check if you can find a place
in Los Banos to recharge (a place with Airco like in my Motel6 room?)
and check your range if you can make it there, driving a slow route
from Fresno or an intermediate charge refresh point.
Then from Los Banos across the hills to Gilroy and either refresh
there again or make it to south San Jose depending on charge level.
There are plenty EV'ers that can offer you a recharge there, just
contact the San Jose or Silicon Valley EAA chapters and the drive
up to SF from there should be possible in a single stretch.

Depends on whether you have the time or not...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers

I was looking at how hard it would be to make my own range extending
generator trailer a few weeks back.
If I get a job in San Francisco or LA, I need to either drive to LA or
SF from Fresno or pay to have my EV transported.
I was thinking that investing in a range extending trailer maybe could
cost only twice as much and then I would have it for the future.


At 400wh/mile @ 60mph that is 24Kwh so I was looking for 20Kw generator.
One thought was to spend about $1000 and buy a honda insight motor off
of ebay and stack up a second rotor to make the power.
they are 10Kw each and the motor is 70hp so 4 rotors would be 40Kw.

I am of course a little unsure how much ECM I would need, but if it is a
Hall-effect peddle, control would be easier.
Also is the 10kw rating peak

Now I am thinking that maybe just get the motor and use a re
manufactured Aircraft Generator.

Something like this

http://www.bpbsurplus.com/lc/cart.php?target=product&product_id=17366&ca
tegory_id=352

Which would be better?



I still think a business oppurtunity for U-hual like rentals of Range
Extending Trailers would be timely.





> > Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> >> This is what I see as constraints for the trailer:
> >> The generator will need to be able to provide the same voltage as the
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

I have a theory that the Prius & Insight electrical machines are 
intermittent rated as the batteries are so small that they only work for 
bursts. Anyone using these machines for any length of time will need to cool 
them. I2R is the killer.
David S
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers


> When I bought my Prius (Salvage, not driveable) I got hold of a
> towing company in Roseville where a driver was interested in a
> trip to the Bay Area with his family while picking up my car from
> the Sacramento area and dropping it off in Sunnyvale, so I had my
> car flatbed trailered for something around $200 just by being
> flexible when he wanted to make the ride (Saturday morning) and
> I had to be at the pickup point to sign papers, but since I needed
> to go there anyway to inspect the Ebay buy and hand over the check
> that was not an extra burden, just a short wait... I drove a small
> rental car as I needed to go there anyway, so I did not have to
> share the cab with the tow drivers family.
>
> If you go to SF then you may want to check if you can find a place
> in Los Banos to recharge (a place with Airco like in my Motel6 room?)
> and check your range if you can make it there, driving a slow route
> from Fresno or an intermediate charge refresh point.
> Then from Los Banos across the hills to Gilroy and either refresh
> there again or make it to south San Jose depending on charge level.
> There are plenty EV'ers that can offer you a recharge there, just
> contact the San Jose or Silicon Valley EAA chapters and the drive
> up to SF from there should be possible in a single stretch.
>
> Depends on whether you have the time or not...
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:04 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers
>
> I was looking at how hard it would be to make my own range extending
> generator trailer a few weeks back.
> If I get a job in San Francisco or LA, I need to either drive to LA or
> SF from Fresno or pay to have my EV transported.
> I was thinking that investing in a range extending trailer maybe could
> cost only twice as much and then I would have it for the future.
>
>
> At 400wh/mile @ 60mph that is 24Kwh so I was looking for 20Kw generator.
> One thought was to spend about $1000 and buy a honda insight motor off
> of ebay and stack up a second rotor to make the power.
> they are 10Kw each and the motor is 70hp so 4 rotors would be 40Kw.
>
> I am of course a little unsure how much ECM I would need, but if it is a
> Hall-effect peddle, control would be easier.
> Also is the 10kw rating peak
>
> Now I am thinking that maybe just get the motor and use a re
> manufactured Aircraft Generator.
>
> Something like this
>
> http://www.bpbsurplus.com/lc/cart.php?target=product&product_id=17366&ca
> tegory_id=352
>
> Which would be better?
>
>
>
> I still think a business oppurtunity for U-hual like rentals of Range
> Extending Trailers would be timely.
>
>
>


> >> Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> >>> This is what I see as constraints for the trailer:
> >>> The generator will need to be able to provide the same voltage as the
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*



> David Sharpe <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I have a theory that the Prius & Insight electrical machines are
> > intermittent rated as the batteries are so small that they only work for
> > bursts. Anyone using these machines for any length of time will need to cool
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

As EV's go, I have a rather extremely low range and my charge system is
not up to speed yet.
25Mile in city but probably 30 or more on highway if I drive slow.
I know increased wind resistance, but less accelerations which in some
testing show that I use less power cruising at 60 than the wh/mile indicate.

I know that drive and while I could use that truck stop jsut before I5
as a last charge station. I don't think I could get to the top of
pacheco pass which is a dead zone!

> When I bought my Prius (Salvage, not driveable) I got hold of a
> towing company in Roseville where a driver was interested in a
> trip to the Bay Area with his family while picking up my car from
> the Sacramento area and dropping it off in Sunnyvale, so I had my
> car flatbed trailered for something around $200 just by being
> flexible when he wanted to make the ride (Saturday morning) and
> I had to be at the pickup point to sign papers, but since I needed
> to go there anyway to inspect the Ebay buy and hand over the check
> that was not an extra burden, just a short wait... I drove a small
> rental car as I needed to go there anyway, so I did not have to
> share the cab with the tow drivers family.
>
> If you go to SF then you may want to check if you can find a place
> in Los Banos to recharge (a place with Airco like in my Motel6 room?)
> and check your range if you can make it there, driving a slow route
> from Fresno or an intermediate charge refresh point.
> Then from Los Banos across the hills to Gilroy and either refresh
> there again or make it to south San Jose depending on charge level.
> There are plenty EV'ers that can offer you a recharge there, just
> contact the San Jose or Silicon Valley EAA chapters and the drive
> up to SF from there should be possible in a single stretch.
>
> Depends on whether you have the time or not...

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

Jeff and All,
I love to come out of lurk mode and argue with Roden!

As I've posted before, I've used a 10KW genny in the bed of the
eeelectric S10 as a range extender, while pulling a small utility
trailer to the closest landfill, 30 miles one-way (truck would just do
60 miles per charge without a trailer). The genny was only used for 2%
of the 20K miles that I put on a pack of 24 T-145 floodies, and I will
argue that it was better than using our old root'n toot'n pollut'n 19
and 69 Bronco! Not having to pay taxes and insurance on another
vehicle has merit, not to mention we loose power all the time and have
a water well, so it is nice to have a genny for backup power. Having
gotten into EV's back in 19 and 99, I got a screaming deal on the
overstocked Y2K genny, converted it from gasoline to propane, and feed
it with two 20 pound BBQ bottles. When this thread has come up before,
people have said that a propane conversion can have worse emissions,
so if you don't know what your doing, buy one that is already setup
for the cleaner fuel! As Hank Hill would say, "The only woman I'm
pimping is sweet lady propane! And I'm tricking her out all over this
town."

Anyway, in addition to powering the on-board Zivan NG3 with the genny,
I would hoist the 100 pound off-board FrankenLester into the truck
bed, which would add 30 ADC to the system. It wasn't elegant, but it
worked, and if I had it to do over again, I would want a diesel engine
genny, which is twice as efficient as a gas engine, running on
bio-diesel!

Suck Amps,
BB

> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:58:09 -0700
> From: Jeff Shanab
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers
>
> Let me stop you right there.
> If I only plan on using it once or twice a year
> Or if I want to get my EV to a location further than it's range. (=
ie
> it is not the trip, it is the getting EV to destination)
> If I don't want to own a second ICE for those 1 or 2 trips a year
> (not to mention, home backup power)
>
> Then it has merit.
>
> I agree though. Don't use it for commuting.
> I also agree that we should use a fully emission controlled engine
> and an eff gen head.
>
> I disagree with the claims of terrible aero. It can be smooth and
> small and hide behind the car.
> (maybe mount on rear bumper like those power chairs?)
>
> I do agree backing up a trailer whose wheelbase is significantly
> shorter than the cars, is a challenge.
> The longranger had an interesting fix for that, steering trailer w=
heels
>
>
> A question. What about converting an engine to Natural Gas or Propane
> and use those little propane tanks you can get anywhere, is that viable.
> Like I said, I may have need to move my EV 400 miles soon and the last
> trailering quote was rather high.
>
>> I hate to say it, because first, it sounds like I'm preaching; and secon=
d,
>> we've gone over it a hundred times here before. But I'm going to anyw=
ay.
>> If you have to burn fossil fuel in a range extender to make a trip, you
>> might as well make that trip in an ICEV. It'll be cleaner and use less
>> fuel.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
> worked, and if I had it to do over again, I would want a diesel engine
> genny, which is twice as efficient as a gas engine, running on
> bio-diesel!

Some thing like this perhaps.

http://fischerpanda.com/commercial/ac-generators/pvm-n-12-mini


--Rick

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] Range Extending Trailers*

On 25 Mar 2010 at 9:19, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:

> I love to come out of lurk mode and argue with Roden!

OK, I'll take the bait. ;-)

You're welcome to differ with me. Please do! Your contributions to the 
list are worthwhile ones. I love a good, thoughtful discussion. 

But you won't get many >arguments< from me any more. These days I usually 
say what I think, then let others respond - or not. For me at least, it's 
just too easy to let an extended exchange degenerate into endless repetition 
of the ideas in slightly different ways - not the best use of time.

Longtime members may recall the lengthy and excruciatingly detailed 
exchanges I used to have with Bill Dube' (to name only one ;-) probably 10-
15 years ago. And parenthetically, this might be a good place to thank Bill 
Dube' for the patience with which he's dispensed wisdom and experience on 
the EVDL for all these years. Bill's one of our sages.

I also might point out that Bill hasn't told his personal genset story this 
time round. A dig through the old Crest archive might give those with 
genset envy some ideas of why he says what he does. (I know, I know, I need 
to get all the deep archive stuff posted on Nabble. Someday ... )

Anyway, thanks for the response and updated report on your experience!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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