# New guy car builder



## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

Hello this looks like a great place to find some info on building the next generation car. We have a company Spirit Industries that builds cars. We are the manufacture and use gas powered engines. I would like to try something in ether electric or hybrid. What we really know best is how to build the platform and make whatever drive train we want work in it. I sure would like to hang here for a while and get some of your experienced input. This looks like a great site. Thanks to the web master and the host.


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## samborambo (Aug 27, 2008)

Hi BC,

A good place to start researching is the Wiki pages. There's lots of decisions to be made to size your components.

Lead acid batteries (SLAs) are no longer the cheap option when considering efficiency, power, storage capacity and lifespan. You may only get 3 years out of the pack. Compared to lithium batteries, you'll need at least twice the storage capacity in SLAs because SLA rated capacity is based on a very slow discharge.

The batteries of choice these days are either Thundersky or Sky Energy LiFePO4 cells. They're large prismatic cells and are well suited for EV use. The size and number of cells required is dictated by the voltage of your motor/controller and storage capacity (range) desired.

Then there's AC vs DC for the drivetrain. AC has a few good advantages such as higher efficiency at lower torque and also regenerative braking by default. DC series wound motors (the most commonly used) are more difficult to run in regen. AC induction motors, when sized correctly, can run in a single gearing without the need for a transmission.

Since you're building from scratch you'll have a lot more freedom to decide where to place the components. Batteries are usually the heaviest component in the vehicle and should be distributed evenly across the wheelbase and as low as possible to keep the centre of gravity down. The Tesla Roadster is a example of an EV with good weight distribution.

Are you building for range? The most important consideration for an efficient vehicle at highway speed is the drag coefficient (Cd) and the cross sectional area (CSA) as seen from the front. Having a lower roof height and longer vehicle has very positive effects on Cd. Also important is the weight of the vehicle combined with the coefficient of rolling resistance (Crr).


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

B.C. said:


> Hello this looks like a great place to find some info on building the next generation car. We have a company Spirit Industries that builds cars. We are the manufacture and use gas powered engines. I would like to try something in ether electric or hybrid.


cool.... how about if you package some turnkey builds complete, except WITHOUT engines (or radiator, fuel cell, exhaust, etc), and let some of US build them! We'd get nice new donors to work with, and you'd get free research on configuration options and advertising!

Even cooler if you could supply a tranny adaptor plate with shaft hub and face-mount holes pre-drilled for typical 8", and 9" face bolt patterns.


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## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

samborambo thanks I have a basic knowledge and have for the most part been waiting for battery technology to advance to the point of making electric practical. www.spiritcars.com is our web site that will show you the types of stuff we build. We have a chassis shop and also build our own fiberglass bodys. Adapting what we already make should not be a problem at all.
Now I hope this is not crossing a line here and if it is I understand. We are in the Biz of selling cars and making a profit. I do not intend to spam this forum but would like to gain knowledge to help produce a product that will benefit both us and any potential customer.
Ideally we can work with someone with EV experience who likes our body style and create a turn key ev hotrod.
dtbaker we are already talking about an adapter plate the issues are to what trans and do you really need a trans?
Thanks again for the input and look forward to the research that can be done threw you all.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahhh, hotrods! Cool stuff.

There is lots to be gained trawling through the forum and I'm sure some help too over specific questions.

Hot rods aren't too aerodynamic though and that could be an issue for both speed and range but exposed and chromed V8s could be replaced by a chromed 9", 11" or 13" motor or multiple motors.









As a business though would you have a job going for someone who can help you develop the EV side of things?
It wouldn't help me as I have a job and I'm too far away but it may be a useful thing for some other people here who may find it mutually beneficial.


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## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

We could lean the the windshield back a little but considering it only weights about 1900 lbs power to weight ratio is pretty good. This is just one style body.











I'm not sure a long range car is something we can achieve. But if we can get a 50 mile range and performance with style I think folks would want one. I know I would.


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## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

woodsmith "As a business though would you have a job going for someone who can help you develop the EV side of things?
It wouldn't help me as I have a job and I'm too far away but it may be a useful thing for some other people here who may find it mutually beneficial."

I think that a few hotrodders and tinkerers can turn the world upside down. IF the gov keeps its nose out of our biz! I have always loved to build cars and I learned a long time ago I can't do it alone. surrounding myself with people who know more than I do is the best way I know to get something done. I'll try almost anything sometimes even if it don't make sense. My wife says I'm just a big kid.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The thing with traditional hot rods is that they are essentially brick shaped vintage cars with weight removed and as big an engine as it will hold to power it on the highway drag strip.

What you do would depend on what you wanted as the product.
A traditional style hot rod but powered by electric would probably still look like a hot rod with wide wheels and an exposed and chromed engine.

An EV hot rod could be a very aerodynamic and light weight enclosed body with skinny tyres and wheel motors.

Very different methods to win the highway drag.

I would love to have an electric traditional style hot rod with a trio of big, finned ac motors in a delta pattern looking like a chromed V8 and the batteries in the trunk, under the floor and in the running boards.
Ahhh, we can but dream....


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## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

A theme we have at Spirit is "we make dreams a reality" I fully agree about aerodynamics. I would like to get my feet wet in the EV thing by making what we already produce an EV before We build a plug and then a mold and then a part and then a chassis to fit the new part. I was already thinking about a hood cover to hide the motor but that 2 motor setup you showed is way cool I don't think we would want to hide it. For a long time I have wanted to know what the sound of a squealing tire without the rower of the motor would sound like. I feel like a kid in a candy store. Again thanks for all the input for a newbe


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## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

What if we lean the brick back. I just had to post this one before I quit for the night.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't think anything is going to make a model T 'aerodynamic' but it does look good.

Off topic. 
You know what I would love to see from a hot rod shop?
Hubless wheels like this on a hot rod.








Now there's a challenge for your EV version.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

This is a great view of an electric hot rod
http://www.evconsultinginc.com/photos/motors_top.html


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Welcome, B.C.... don't let these bunch of naysayers talk you into something light and aerodynamic... you got a brick? We'll make it go fast regardless... 


We worked with a hot rod shop near us that is similar to yours - Speedster MotorCars - to electrify one of their '37 Cord "Coffin Nose" replicas. The final weight is north of 3500#, it uses a single direct drive TransWarP 11" that is powered by lead-acid batts (168V) and a Soliton1 controller. Even with the batteries, weight and direct drive going against it, it still hauls ass, but the range does suck (about 17 miles). Here are some pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/m0thman/sets/72157622073720507/with/3874943405/


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

NOW, that's pretty rat there.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

B.C. said:


> We could lean the the windshield back a little but considering it only weights about 1900 lbs power to weight ratio is pretty good. This is just one style body.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And after you remove your gas engine, it could be put to more practical uses


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## MJ Monterey (Aug 20, 2009)

My first concept was a '27 tracknose with Duval split style windshield. Pic on the left at this site. http://www.poli-form.com/Catalog/6-32/26wind.html. Overall height should be equivilent to a Miata or less. I believe this would still make a great in town car just a bit snug across the shoulders (I'm 6' 2"/210). 

For driveline on the '27 I would look at the HPGC 50 atached to a shorty Powerglide. Owners thread here. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/hpg-ac30-31-50-owners-thread-34853.html Still waiting on drive impressions. If in doubt go with the trans warp 9. They take the T400 tail shaft and would mount in place of the trans. Fill the nose with batteries and Electronics. I would bet you could come in under 1500 lbs if you keep it simple.

I wanted fenders for better foul weather and aerodynamics. So I am patterning my body of a sectioned and chopped '37 with the Duval split style windshield and removeable hardtop(or perhaps woody!). I am shooting for under 48" and under 2500 pounds.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Welcome, B.C.... don't let these bunch of naysayers talk you into something light and aerodynamic... you got a brick? We'll make it go fast regardless...


I've got nothing against brick shaped hot rods. My favorite styles of cars are from the era of long bonnets, cycle wings and spoked wheels.

An electric one of these would be fun.
















Put a 13" motor where the supercharger is and then a load of batteries under the bonnet.


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## B.C. (Oct 7, 2009)

LOL I can see I'm going to like this place. Tesseract one of my biggest concerns was selling the look. The motor compartment on that 37 cord is way cool.


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## _GonZo_ (Mar 23, 2009)

Welcome BC very nice job what you do at your warehouse.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

B.C. said:


> For a long time I have wanted to know what the sound of a squealing tire without the rower of the motor would sound like.


Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHc_l6Mv-Cs


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

B.C. said:


> What if we lean the brick back. I just had to post this one before I quit for the night.


That would be a killer EV! I think I'd try to smooth the front grill and cover the hood to make it look more futuristic as an EV with better aero.


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