# Advice Required - New Build Mazda 6 (UK Version)



## gemmuj (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

Can you guy please give me feedback on my shopping list and tell me what improvements I could make.

Motor: ADC FB1-4001A 9.1" Dbl shaft

Controller: Curtis 1231C

Batt Pack: 13 lead acid deep cycle batteries (12 for car and on aux battery)

Pot Box: Curtis PB6 Pot Box

BMS: PakTraker

Batery Balancing: BBlocher's beautiful creation

Battery Charger: *Zivan (not sure which one)*

Vacuum Pump (for brakes): *Not sure which one*

Contactors: *Not sure which ones*

Can someone please tell me which metal should the adapter plate and coupling be made from? Aluminium or Steel??

How do I calculate the ratings of the contactors and relays that I will require.

thank you



Anything I have missed out?? please advise.

thank you guys and girls


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Sounds like you have been doing your research. 

Batteries: In the realm of flooded lead acid, use real traction batteries (golf cart batteries). NOT simply deep cycle batteries. Yes, there IS a difference. In an efficient smaller car, you can conservatively figure 3 to 4 miles of maximum range per 100lbs of flooded lead acid battery.

Your motor is a great choice, lots of low end torque. The controller won't win you any drag races, but you will get around fine. This is the same combo I have in my car.

Charger: the only issue I have with zivans is that they must be sent back to the factory if you want to reconfigure their behavior, and this can mean significant down time. Not sure what all is available inexpensively in the UK but in the US manzanita micro makes a really nice charger, and russco makes a solid, entry level one. I have a russco. Both of these are easily end-user configurable. 

BMS and balancing are optional with flooded lead acid, just ensure your charger is set up to properly equalize the batteries (which is basically a high enough finishing voltage on the charge cycle, nothing fancy. Nonetheless, monitoring certainly is helpful and educational and can help you spot a problem like a weak cell while it is small and potentially fixable. I am of the opinion however that you don't need active balancing with flooded lead. (With anything else though, you do)

Albright makes great contactors, and they are a UK company I believe. For the setup you are describing, 200 amp continuous DC rated contactors like most everybody uses will be just fine.

There are lots of options availabe for vacuum pumps. Hot rod websites sell them because turbo/supercharged engines produce little vacuum. Of course, any EV parts reseller will stock them too. Do yourself a favor and find a quiet one. Often they are the noiseiest part of a conversion.

My adapter plate is 5/8" aluminum. 1/2" would probably be OK too unless you are building a monster. If you are using steel, 3/8 or even 1/4 might be alright. I don't think I have ever seen a steel adapter plate though, most all of them are made from aluminum.

Good Luck.


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## gemmuj (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi madderscience,

thanks for the reply. 

I like the sound of the traction batteries but I feel that they are a tad bit to expensive for me at the moment. Unless I am looking in the wrong place.lol Also, how do I work out the amphours that I require from the batteries.#?

For braking, what do you think of the Thomas 12VDC, 1/10 vacuum pump?

for Air con, what do you think about the: http://www.masterflux.com/products/sierra/?pid=23

I just spoke to the people at Albright, and I need to know which contactor to purchase. Do you know which type of contactor other EVers are using? also, can someone please advice me on which relays I would need to get?



Does anyone have a solution for the power steering? 

Thank you


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

If you buy cheap batteries and/or non-traction batteries, expect to be replacing them sooner and/or expect reduced driving range. I've come to the conclusion that in the lead acid realm, you aren't going to do better on a cost/mile basis that with real traction batteries. I don't know what the UK prices are but in the US here, the Trojan brand (high end) T-1275 12V golf cart battery goes for around $200 retail, so 12 of those would give you 144V with about 1000lbs of battery weight. 

The 13th battery (the accessory battery for the car) can be much smaller, presuming that you have a DC/DC converter (and you should). I have a very small 7AH UPS battery for my 12V accessory battery. basically it is just enough to pull in the contactors to start the car, and enough to run the lights and stuff for a few minutes in an emergency situation.

There is a section on the wiki that talks about sizing your battery pack:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709

If you decide you are getting serious about this, the entire wiki is required reading. There are also a couple good books on the subject that can be had.

As for range estimation, the rule of thumb I threw out before seems to be pretty accurate in most cases: with a reasonably small, efficient car you are looking at 3 or 4 miles of usable range per 100lbs of flooded lead acid battery. Another way I like to put it, for basic estimation purposes it is that with a battery pack equal in weight to 1/3 the overall weight of the vehicle, your practical, daily driving range will be between what the original car could do on one and two (US) gallons of gasoline. So with your proposed setup you should be able to go 30 or 40 miles on a charge.

If you want to get mathematical then the hardest thing you will have to do is come up with an estimate of the watt hours per mile (WH/Mile) of your vehicle. Or basically, how efficient it is. This is a function of its aerodynamic properties and rolling resistance. Once you have that number and your desired range, you can work back to battery sizing requirements in terms of voltage and AH capacity. And voltage plus AH capacity can get you back to weight, which hopefully matches up with the sanity check / rule of thumb methods I mentioned above.

The thomas vacuum pump should be fine. I don't know how noisy it is though.

The contactor I was referring to specifically is the Albright SW200 with a 12V coil.

The air conditioning compressor probably works fine. It will be about a 10% tax on your range when running however. If you can do without, do without.

2nd generation (91-95) toyota MR2s use electric power steering pumps and many EVers have retrofitted those to other vehicles. But they add complexity and draw a significant amount of power. Furthermore, if you are driving a small car and you set it up with good high pressure, low RR tires you probably won't need it. My MR2 weighs 3400lbs as an EV, and in my opinion it is just fine with no power steering. At a dead stop on dry pavement it takes some effort to steer the wheels but if I am moving at all It is no problem.

Good Luck.


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## gemmuj (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi madderscience, just a quick thing. Can you please give me the specific. Part number of the contactor I need. The people at Albright do not know which one I'm after. The part number is SW200~ followed by some numbers. Its on the silver foil on ur contactor. Plz can I have it. Thank you


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

I don't have that specific contactor (I have a SW202 reversing contactor and a different manufacturer main contactor so I'm afraid I can't help you with the exact part number. I am sure that information is available on one of the various EV parts websites out there. Failing that, somebody else here will be able to help I am sure.

Sorry


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## gemmuj (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi Mad,

Is it not then possible for me to just use this SW202 contactor for both the reverse and forward movement? Is not not just a case ofopposite wiring?

muj


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## gemmuj (Feb 22, 2008)

hi guys,

Can someone please just help me to work out how many LiFePo batteries I will need for my conversion.

I am using the Advanced DC FB1-4001A Motor as well as the Curtis 123C1 controller.

thank you


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## Ashev (Sep 9, 2008)

Hi fellow londoner..

To work out the number of LiFePo batteries you need simply divide your target Voltage (for example 144) by 3.2. So a 144V battery pack requires 45 batteries. From there you need to make the decision of what the amp hours of the batteries needs to be (I think they come in 60, 100 and 100+ amp hour ratings). This affects how many amps you can drag out of them during acceleration. LiFePo appear to be rated to about 3C (for a 60amphour battery that'd be 180amps)

hths


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## gemmuj (Feb 22, 2008)

hi Ash,

Check your PM inbox when you get a sec. 

Muj


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