# spitfire and eat amps



## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

now here are some pics of the car.
more tomorrow.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

What kind of controller is that Bill? You might be best to triple up the batteries. ie run them 3p8s instead of 3 seperate strings. Might help current sharing.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

If the controller/charger can handle it might consider 2 strings of 12 for 144V instead of just 96.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> If the controller/charger can handle it might consider 2 strings of 12 for 144V instead of just 96.



the controller can handle it, i just wasent sure if the motor could so that is why i went with 96v.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> What kind of controller is that Bill? You might be best to triple up the batteries. ie run them 3p8s instead of 3 seperate strings. Might help current sharing.


jack, the controller is a curtis 1209 housing but the power section uses the irfp4668 mosfets and 30 amp diodes, the control board is a lm339 and a mosfet driver, i had the power section built to use the to-247 components, all in all it looks good, and it works great controlling the bench motor, but the test will be in the car.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

oh yea, i have an el cheapo kelly 120v 400 amp controller for a back up just in case mine fails, but iv had a ton of failures on the bench all ready, but this one works well, so we will see.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

3 pairs of 8? hum never thought of that, thanks jack.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

so parallel, 3 12v batteries 8 times then series the pairs right?


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Yeh that way you improve current sharing and even out any capacity differences between batteries. Does your controller have current feedback? A simple pwm proportional to throttle position will give poor response when in a car under load but will appear to work fine on the bench withan unloaded motor. Throttle proportional to motor current gives a much more "normal" feel to the car.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

jackbauer said:


> Yeh that way you improve current sharing and even out any capacity differences between batteries. Does your controller have current feedback? A simple pwm proportional to throttle position will give poor response when in a car under load but will appear to work fine on the bench withan unloaded motor. Throttle proportional to motor current gives a much more "normal" feel to the car.
> im not sure of current feedback, it monitors current and cuts back proportionaly, kind of like a curtis, it also does over and undervolt cut back, so if the battery current gets to low it cuts back on current to save batteries, it is a first working attempt at an on-road controller, ill know in a while how it will do. i dont have all of the batteries for the car yet, so i went to the wrecking yard and bought up some cores for 5 bucks each and changed the battery acid charged them up and they work, at least good enough for a test or 2 then i will use them for cores for my new batteries.


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Sounds interesting. I'll be following


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## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

What motor is that? 

Looking forward to reading about your build...


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

madmike8 said:


> What motor is that?
> 
> Looking forward to reading about your build...


GE 9 inch, used to be a fork lift motor
thanks i will be posting more pics soon


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

Why are you using 12 volt batteries instead of 6 volt deep cycle?


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

gsmith191145 said:


> Why are you using 12 volt batteries instead of 6 volt deep cycle?


well the answer is a question. 
how many 6v batteries would i have to use to get 315 ah of battery capacity
i know that it takes 24 12v batteries, so i dont think there would be room in the car for enough 6v batteries to match, thats why.


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## lockduke (Dec 25, 2009)

Sorry to intrude on the thread but I have been looking at a 315AH / 6V battery for floor scrubber's not light but right there on the amp hour's that you need they should work very well for our solar array storage.As they are the same dimension as the 105 AH just a little taller they should fit.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

lockduke said:


> Sorry to intrude on the thread but I have been looking at a 315AH / 6V battery for floor scrubber's not light but right there on the amp hour's that you need they should work very well for our solar array storage.As they are the same dimension as the 105 AH just a little taller they should fit.


do you have a link?


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

billhac said:


> well the answer is a question.
> how many 6v batteries would i have to use to get 315 ah of battery capacity
> i know that it takes 24 12v batteries, so i dont think there would be room in the car for enough 6v batteries to match, thats why.


You will only need 16 Trojan J305G-AC 315Ah batteries. just a suggestion. 

http://www.batteryhouse.com/trojan-j305g-ac-group-size-dc-6v-6-volt-deep-cycle-315-ah-battery.aspx


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

How much are you paying for those 12v batteries a piece?


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## lockduke (Dec 25, 2009)

gsmith is correct Trojan has them as well as DEKA. I have seen these units used in some golf cart NEV FOR EXTREME RANGE. Almost all battery company's have something in or near this Amp Hour range DEKA also has an AGM version in the 285 AH range only problem with these is they are 908D version and rather large in length not sure if they manufacture in a group 31 size. I have been using the DEKA's for nearly 4 years hooked to a 2000 constant wattage power inverter in my service truck to power all the on board key machines and battery chargers for all my Makita power tools. I also use it to power all of my on site corded tools like my (1000W FLOOD LIGHTS. FLAT GRINDERS, BELT SANDERS, DIE GRINDERS, POWER DRILLS, POWER PLANE and sometimes a REFRIGERATOR)depending how long we are going to be on site. Also keep in mind this a 4000W surge 2000W constant draw inverter so these batteries will take a beating and come out the other side no worse for the wear. DUKE


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## lockduke (Dec 25, 2009)

Also thought of another battery company called Bull Dog batteries. it is in Warsaw or Wabash Indiana. It may be a division of another company but I don't think so. They specialize in extended range batteries for the golf cart industry. Everything I have read about them has been an extreme thank you to the manufacturer for these batteries. Most saying they extended the range by 1/3 - 1/2 the additional range. Sorry I did not post this one the first time, I have a (sometime) memory and TONIGHT is one of those sometime's. DUKE,


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## lockduke (Dec 25, 2009)

Found Bulldog they appear to be offering battery called X2X. It appears to be listed as double the stored energy of it's predecessors. They also design and build charging systems to fit almost any application. the correct name is Bulldog Battery Corp. address is 387 S. Wabash Street, Wabash Indiana 46992. PH 1 800 443 3492- FAX 800 448 7511. Hope this helps in your project.DUKE,







Correction it is called the 2XREP


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

gsmith191145 said:


> You will only need 16 Trojan J305G-AC 315Ah batteries. just a suggestion.
> 
> http://www.batteryhouse.com/trojan-j305g-ac-group-size-dc-6v-6-volt-deep-cycle-315-ah-battery.aspx


well there is also the size factor involved here too. in the front the hight of those batteries would be to high, its a very small car, so i had to watch out for battery clearance as well.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

here is the reason for the 12v batteries. i had a specific hight that i needed to stick to in order to keep the batteries from contacting the hood, and the area behind the seats where the gas tank used to be, i only had 10" of space after the racks so what ever battery i went with had to be less than 10" tall or it would short out on the hood or top of the car. all of the batteries that have been mentioned were looked at all ready, but the hight was the issue, they are over 10" tall and some were 11.5" tall which wouldent fit for my aplication.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

another reason is battery weight, lets not forget the car is small and curb weight as an ice was less than 1800 pounds, so if i went with the trojans that were posted here for example the j305g 315 amp hour batteries and i got 16 of them to get the 96v that i want to use, the weight of those 16 batteries would be 1408 pounds, as opposed to the 12 v batteries where all 24 batteries weight 1080, so i also shaved off over 300 pounds with my batteries. there is a lot of factors to consider when building an electric vehicle. you cant just throw in some batteries and hope its ok. i cant exceed the curb weight by to much or ill risk messing up the stability of the car, it is a uni body construction so there is not much leeway there.


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## lockduke (Dec 25, 2009)

You are correct you might look into the carbon batteries by Braille. They tout the weight to be less then 1/2 the weight of lead acid. Not sure of the the chemistry, but they are used in race cars for their weight saving's. I think their size is also considerably smaller you might also check on the original battery setup that Waylen used to use in the WHITE ZOMBIE I believe he use to run something similar to the braille not sure which one might fit your body style better than a full size battery in 12v, I believe they can also be bought in 16v versions thus even more weight saving's as well as extra voltage i.e. fewer batteries or more with less weight to accomplish your distance goal and I believe the chemistry will allow you to charge at a fairly steep amp rate without destroying them.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

ill do a search, and see, cost is definatly an issue as well, or i would just get a lifepo4 pack, and a bms, i dont want to do that so im comprimising with the lead.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

billhac said:


> here is the reason for the 12v batteries. i had a specific hight that i needed to stick to in order to keep the batteries from contacting the hood,



you can always modify the hood! check out my hood scoop.... needed for lead, but not for 100ah li. If funds are tight, I would highly recommend saving up and going Li regardless. You reaaaally don't NEED a BMS, but Li is WAY better than lead.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> you can always modify the hood! check out my hood scoop.... needed for lead, but not for 100ah li. If funds are tight, I would highly recommend saving up and going Li regardless. You reaaaally don't NEED a BMS, but Li is WAY better than lead.


well there is no doubt li is better, but there is no reason why i cant do lead to get the car on the road and save up for li in the mean time. i had good results with my lead pack in my neon, so i figure i could go 2 for 2, and use li later.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> you can always modify the hood! check out my hood scoop.... needed for lead, but not for 100ah li. If funds are tight, I would highly recommend saving up and going Li regardless. You reaaaally don't NEED a BMS, but Li is WAY better than lead.


hood scoop looks great, i might just do that to cool the controller, so where did you get it?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

well, I guess I would argue that waiting a little saves you from dealing with weight issues, re-doing battery racks and getting a new charger.... but your choice!


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

what kind of mileage you getting out of your lead batts? Also what kinda price you getting for them?


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

dtbaker said:


> well, I guess I would argue that waiting a little saves you from dealing with weight issues, re-doing battery racks and getting a new charger.... but your choice!


well i get what you are saying about the battery racks, but i dont mind buying a new charger for lipos because i dont have more that 100 bucks in my current charger, im using a capacitive charger with 25 amps of output current. it works great for lead.so i can get some use out of the car as im saving for lipos.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

gsmith191145 said:


> what kind of mileage you getting out of your lead batts? Also what kinda price you getting for them?



well i can only give you an estimate based on the milage from my neon, i was getting about 42 usable miles from my pack with the same number of batteries but at 72v. but that was at 45mph. im hoping for a bit more from this car because its lighter and it will be operated at 96v, so if i can get 25 miles @ 55 and 10 at 45 ill be happy. cost of the batteries is about 80 bucks each, and im going to wrecking yards buying up cores for 5 bucks each so i can save my self almost 300 bucks in core charges when i buy the new batteries.


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## gsmith191145 (May 1, 2011)

billhac said:


> well i can only give you an estimate based on the milage from my neon, i was getting about 42 usable miles from my pack with the same number of batteries but at 72v. but that was at 45mph. im hoping for a bit more from this car because its lighter and it will be operated at 96v, so if i can get 25 miles @ 55 and 10 at 45 ill be happy. cost of the batteries is about 80 bucks each, and im going to wrecking yards buying up cores for 5 bucks each so i can save my self almost 300 bucks in core charges when i buy the new batteries.


to bad the t-105 are to tall for your car. I use interstate equivalents for 96 dollars each and it would save you a few bucks.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

gsmith191145 said:


> to bad the t-105 are to tall for your car. I use interstate equivalents for 96 dollars each and it would save you a few bucks.


yea i looked at those, i could put them in some places, but i dont want to have a mismatch pack, so ill stick with what i got for now.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

ok here is some pics of the triumph conversion, it is now drivable with my controller on it and i will be sending a couple controllers out to do some more testing this week. 
for starters, i changed the voltage temporally to 72v because i all ready had some nice gauges set up for 72 volts, i will be going up to 96 though but for now the car is running at 72 volts with used wrecking yard batteries, here are some pics and i will do a video of it today if i can.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

that is just the front battery racks, but there is still racks behind the seat and in the trunk for the rest of the batteries, when i get them, also i have the charging system completed and outputting 25 amps of charging current. the car is not street legal yet as there is still a lot of work it do but it is drivable and i will be doing a video test drive of it today.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

billhac said:


> hood scoop looks great, i might just do that to cool the controller, so where did you get it?


I got mine on ebay....
but there are lots available at places like this: http://www.racer-union.com/Hood-Scoop/c244618/


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

yes after i read your post i went looking and i found out that autozone has some aftermarket hood scoops. thinking of cutting a hole over the controller and putting a hood scoop over it to allow more air to go onto the heat sink.


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## 9852 (Jan 17, 2010)

ok here is a video of me driving, its a bit rough, but i will do a second one later. the car does pick up pretty good, the controller feels like it has some power, i went about 2 miles in the car and its hot outside but after the drive the controller did not even feel warm so im happy with it. i will try to go a bit faster in the next video but all in all it was a fun ride, i feel the grin coming back.
here is the link to the video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RjHH5WT97E


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