# AEM induction motors and controllers (EU)



## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Hi,

just presenting them here, since they are already quite widely used in several EU countries but not in the states yet. Very reliable, light and compact.

Two versions:
M30 (30kw, 75kw peak) (0-6000RPM), 37kg, liquid cooled
M40 (40kw, 100kw peak) (0-6000RPM), 45kg, liquid cooled
They are usually installed with 200-300v battery packs but
also up to 500v. They are good from 144v up but more is
better.

There is a special belt available, developed for them, allowing
coupling 2 or 3 motors, with no mentionable losses.

RA30 and 40 controllers for them..
I am not sure though about how the pricing translates..


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## gunnarhs (Apr 24, 2012)

Red Neck said:


> Hi,
> 
> just presenting them here, since they are already quite widely used in several EU countries but not in the states yet. Very reliable, light and compact.
> 
> ...


Looks, good
I have not seen any of these yet, got more info on controller?


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

They are a newer version of motors usually sold under OEM and contract jobs by one of the earlier EV pioneers, involved in EV1, Mercedes, FIAT and some other electric programs, even back in the day when the initial EV takeoff was initially expected and then scrapped by manufacturers. These are not widely advertised or presented. This series is derived from a series which was developed for a major German vehicle manufacturer. I don't think there was much of an interest to sell to end public but if there is interest, they are available. 

The RA30 controller has a peak of 300amps at voltages up to 350v and
the RA40 400amps at 220v and go up to 350v. They are water cooled and typically connected to same cooling system as the motors. Radiator and pump
kit are also available but I would need to check for pricing.

I will ask the gentleman for the email to provide for anyone interested.
Group buys might be interesting, especially if there is no distribution in
states. Would be cool to see three motors in a 300kw car with three of these motors


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Interesting prospect this. Do they have a website or info store somewhere? Keen to read the email also! Thanks


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

His cars were at Geneva car shows and some others years ago so the auto industry knows him very well but he was not end user oriented so websites and promotional materials aren't really out there. As far as I know anyway. I don't think he has a website or wants one but you can reach him at [email protected] 

Not sure how long he takes to reply nowadays though


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank you

Will try get in touch with him.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Sure. He also made the first motors for EV1. He also made first frequency converters (controllers) in 1987 and first capacitive frequency converters..
First physical zync air batteries etc.. The first induction drive forklift
in the world.. Stuff like that. He is very modest. Probably too modest.


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## efan (Aug 27, 2009)

something seems very secretive in all these posts...here is the manufacturer of these motors/controller:

http://www.stoja.si/en/Presentation.php

here is a vehicle using the setup:

http://www.evalbum.com/3504


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Looks like a non updated or outdated site ut it does seem to be his. 
Nice conversion. How does it handle? I saw these motors in more
powerful cars by now. I've not seen one in a car smaller than Nissan
Qashkai in Netherland


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Does anyone know of other conversions done with these motors? The torque is less than I would want but the motor is small relative to this and I could easily fit a custom longer motor if I could commission one from them. Seems a simple design though.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

It seems they go under more than one name or brand and I know of two Cobras which are about to undergo the twin 100kw motor treatment  
I will attach some images as soon as I get to my other PC.

These motors were also used in new Nissan Qashkai conversions in Netherlands by one of our local companies. The went very well. Speed is a matter of voltage then.

I also emailed him. It has been a while. I met him twice. The first time in some electronics fair in Germany (as a visitor) and I simply found out he knows a bit a bout this stuff. The second time in Munich at an electric car fair and he was stunned by some of the crap on market and then his colleague told me what he does and did, hence the modesty remark  Then I had to drag the info out of him. The stuff about EV1 and other manufacturers. It was almost as if he was doing that stuff in another life. Then I waited for a few weeks for the motor pricing. He forgot. Twice.
Nice gentleman though. Lake a shaken up professor  

These guys seem to be like that. The head of KERS program at BMW I met at that fair was just like that also. About to retire and modest as hell also. You need to drag stuff out of them. They don't talk on their own  When they
do, your jaw drops

Oh, the power and torque rise with voltage of course. Even I was surprised by the torque the first time but take a look at the low voltage for which the data is given. This is old school. Everything conservative in terms of numbers. These days most data tends to be exaggerated in markets.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

I am attaching the pic of the Cobra waiting for him to custom suit a controller for, for a twin 100kw (expected at about 250kw at 300v peak). I don't have the pic of the other one yet. Apparently this same setup powers a 12m city bus with
80 passengers 

He is currently commissioned to provide drive trains for some 10 super cars with a blown or severely damaged original motors with twin and triple motor configs initially with a major European super car outlet.

He sent me a photo of the twin motor setup going into one of such cars and
a photo of one of those, about to receive a triple motor treatment, for well
over 300kw 

I thought he was retired..

Forgot to add. I asked him if there was any of the first induction motor projects he
was not involved in and he did not know. So I started naming them from Wikipedia,..
and he was everywhere. Even made the Think drive trains and complete cars with
them to start them up in Norway where the Think project originates from.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Red Neck

Any info or links to builds or blogs using these motors? And how would we buy them?


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

I expect more people to place their builds here as they find this topic and I will certainly put up my Cobra progress when I start. Some time in spring I guess 

As for buying them, I am not sure where you are from. I myself will use bank wire for an invoice and some sort of sensible shipping but even express or express economy is not that much in some cases.

Sea shipping is cheapest for overseas. I imagine it wouldn't cost more than a 100$ to get a motor and controller across sea that way.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

I now think I may buy an already converted Cobra from him. I pestered him a bit about me perhaps taking a Cobra to him, after buying one, for him to do everything and a bit about what the waiting line is and since he is already converting Cobras an bad ass cars, I think I best leave everything to him. I just don't know if I need Kokam Li Poly batteries. He says they're expensive but a good choice for performance cars but that even Sinopoly these days, if assembled correctly, work fine with his controller mitigating any sag well 

I asked for a pic of the type of small car he will place a (75kw motor in in the beginning and he will drop the 100kw one in later, depending on the differential obtained). I think it will be a death trap with such a motor but hey, those are fun too  

And apparently this Aston has had its last petrol refueling just days ago 
Supposedly the Ferrari, Diablo and that Cobra are next and then I can squeeze in  I am not sure about the gearbox. I would like to have direct
drive and he said that with twin motors, the car will fly, but with three, that
I really never will need a gearbox. Two are Tesla roadster level. Three, notably more. I was promised a picture of the Cobra he has removed the engine from last week but he will send it to me separately.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Well, got some bad news today... Mr. Miro will not be doing my Cobra conversion due to being too swamped with existing projects, but I can have the motor and inverters, or a complete 200, 300 or 400kw assembly.

The 200kw one (supposedly a lot more than 200kw on proper voltage), would set me back some 10.000+ Euros, with a 5 year warranty, or less, if I take more units. The weight of the motors, controller and assembly is some 100kg, without the gearbox. I was told I don't need more than that for a Cobra.
400kw+ is for Lambos and Ferraris.. 

I will probably take the 200kw pack, but I did hope, he would be the one doing the conversion

I also asked for more photos of the projects because of which I was in so much pain and I admit they did make me feel a bit better since he is
into interesting stuff. Lots of Aston Martins, few Ferraris, a Diablo,.. I have uploaded some but he asked me not to upload most as the clients are private.

The Lambo is getting 400kw with two 200kw units... 

I also uploaded them to:
https://plus.google.com/photos/118205951563833152152/albums/5867059577725982737

I pushed him a but about any other news and he told me that his motor and controller were used in the winning car in this year's Monaco Eco Rally, beating Teslas, Plug in long range Priuses and and other cars. I think it is by the guy whose link was placed in this thread. A Dacia. It had the lowest consumption of all vehicles (about 100 participants). Supposedly that motor and controller are from 3 years ago and is a version of the M40 motor.

http://www.acm.mc/documents/6/EN-24-Classement_Consommation.pdf

So I am getting two of these but slightly newer. Kinda feels good to know that.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi Red Neck. Sorry to hear that. Do you know the spec of the motors? Is it in one of those links please? You mentioned Tesla performance without a multi ratio transmission so I wish to know what rpm these motors will do and what the performance graphs are across said rpm range.

Any info available please? Thanks


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

tylerwatts said:


> Hi Red Neck. Sorry to hear that. Do you know the spec of the motors? Is it in one of those links please? You mentioned Tesla performance without a multi ratio transmission so I wish to know what rpm these motors will do and what the performance graphs are across said rpm range.
> 
> Any info available please? Thanks


The basic specs are in the first attachment on first page of the thread. Two M40 motors are coupled. The controller is an "enlarged" version of its controller also. I could also add an additional motor or two later on but for the Cobra this is already overkill. My setup at 300 volts will reach 200km/h but
top speed is not really what I am after. It is not a comfortable high speed car. It is more for accelleration, etc. I think they are rated for 6000rpm and go over 8000rpm without issue. 

I will ask for a torque diagram. These motors are automotive industry grade. Basically for factory builds.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Red Neck. I am keen to know max and max continuous rpm (ie max burst or over speed rpm and max sustained rpm) please. And if possible a power/torque graph showing such.

Reason being to put the motor through a 10:1 ratio at high voltage for rpm and sensible current.


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

I was told I will get a new set of dyno measurements of a car or two shortly 

I also asked him about PMAC motors and any other developments and he told me he made PMAC versions some 4-5 years ago and tested them and that the cost was high and advantage negligent and not worth pursuing for commercial purposes as in practice, these units are already very efficient. He also had versions with full copper rotors, etc and again, the cost difference was at a bout a third of a motor cost and efficiency only about a percentage point higher... 

He did the development for a major manufacturer and for a university.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

If allowed would you post those results please or pm me to send to me please. I am really interested in these motors and they are more accessible to me in the EU.
Thanks


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## Red Neck (Feb 1, 2013)

Sure,

I ll be on holiday for a solid week and hopefully I get the info by when I'm back.

He did say that his peak data is a bit different than that given by other manufacturers, who often give out marketing peak data, for even as little as
15 seconds, or temperature and other conditions which are not exactly appropriate. 

By those, these can be 200kw motors each then, etc.. 
Like I said, old school. I'm now also thinking of having an old timer
done at the side also. To have an electric Benz or a 645 CSL,..

I would only throw one 100kw unit into one of those and cruise
efficiently. That Eco rally winning car had this unit built in.

He mentioned he is heading into development again as the
industry has not made any progress in past 20 years, other
than moving from nominal to marketing peaks of peaks for
same old tech.. He is developing something again only he
can develop. Would not say what yet but given track record,
I sure as hell am curious.

I asked if on his own, with a manufacturer or university or
whichever but he wouldn't say yet.

Even zinc air batteries are exactly where he left them in 1995.


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