# Past/Present Kelly controller owners:



## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

It's complete for China. Language barrier sucks doesn't it  Most of the posts are old and Kelly has long since fixed problems. They are not high end controllers and if used within the parameters they are fine. I own two. I also have a Zapi, GolfTech, and Synkromotive. All work fine. The directions lack............ well have you taken a look? What do you see or better yet don't see from directions from Kelly vs lets say Curtis. Go have a look and if you look close enough you will see. However you can wire up your Kelly just fine if you think about it. You can also contact Kelly to clarify. I have plenty of times. They are good with customer service. They have sold plenty of controllers too. I have one of the early ones and one of the updated ones. My updated one was sent for free  Still have the old one too which still works in it's basic functioning and it is programmable too. All of them are. If your asking about what controller to buy it will depend upon your budget and what your needs will be. I have a Synkromotive controller in my ride right now. Works perfect. 

Pete 

PS. Yes, some early Kelly Controllers did not perform as advertised but very few actually smoked. They were just weak. Most are fine now. Prices are decent. Depends upon what you want. If you want a 120 volt system then get a Kelly rated for 144 volts. It will perform within parameters just fine. Amps will be fine too. Most early Kelly Controllers cut out kind of early due to the fact that the controller had a very short time you could operate in high amp mode compared to other controllers. If you need high amps and voltage I'd suggest Soliton 1, Netgain, or Zilla. Synkromotive is good as it is a controller that will do 156 volts and 700 amps and is configurable. It is a very good controller. Performs well within specs. Does not over heat either. Very nice. 

Pete


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## type2teach (Jan 15, 2010)

Ok, so what I'm looking for is specifically what their owner's manuals DON'T say but SHOULD say and if anyone has had any specific problems with this. 
I see that Curtis' manuals are thicker than Kelly's, but they are different controllers, so I would expect them to be somewhat different, right? 
Thanks.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

What do you think they should say? The Kelly manuals are specific for just about each version. I think the Curtis manual is for all models. The New Kelly Controllers are different than the old ones and the new manuals reflect that and they do show you what you need to know. 

What information are you actually looking to find or not find? 

Pete 

It did not take long to set up the new controller according to the manual and I had it up an running with no glitches. What more do you want?

Pete


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## type2teach (Jan 15, 2010)

Oh, ok, ok. I see. So Kelly has changed their ways. I see that most of the complaint postings are from last year and the latter part of '08. Interesting. 
I have one of the older manuals. I will compare the new to the old and see.
Thanks.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

Even my old Kelly was easy to set up but I had a modified one from Kelly for a specific type of motor and needed some extra help. It was easy. It was and is very simple. No need for long drawn out technical mumbo jumbo when a good diagram will allow you to connect. If however you want to make your setup a bit more complex then you can follow the basic install and then adapt according to that so you stay within the parameters of the manufacturers install requirements. 

Pretty easy actually. Take your time and be carful. Follow the directions and you will be good to go. 

Do you have a Kelly or are you thinking of getting one? If you are in the stages of thinking then you need to weigh the needs. Will it really do the job. There are others out there that are just as or more powerful than the Kelly for around the same price. 

Pete 
What are your needs?


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## Huub3 (Aug 16, 2009)

Dear all,

although I have not use a Kelly controller, I am not 100% that the quality issues are something of the past.

Look at this site:
http://hr-ev.blogspot.com/search/label/Controller

Where Mindaugas gives a post-mortem of a Kelly failure. I see some indications that bad design is causing issues, rather than QC or bad components.

Just my 2cts,


Huub

BTW. looks like an interesting BMS Mindaugas is designing too


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

Well I think you can find this sort of thing with just about any controller out there. There are going to be failures. There is no way around that. His heat sink is not directly attached to the controller which reduces the amount of heat the controller can dissipate. He is pushing the controller and but yes it did fail. Run it within the parameters and you will pretty much be fine but even then components do fail and when one part fails component failure can cascade and let out the magic smoke. I'd suggest you look for controllers that have a higher amperage rating. Zilla is one of them. For the average vehicle the low end zilla is quite good for the average on road vehicle. Dependable and strong and long lived. Price is comparable to the others in it's class too. Zilla has excellent history and loads of amps that you can play with. Better than the Curtis. Kelly has it's place as do the others. 

Pete


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

One failure of the new version does not denote a bad product. Even with early failures it does not mean they are all that bad. Just it gives a bad taste. If you can't afford the zilla then go with the DIY one mentioned. I'd suggest you not go with Kelly then, but the others.

Pete


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

I had a Kelly KDH 400 AMP and I can't complain about the manual. I found it very clear on how to mount it, wire it and setup the configuration. 

I upgraded to a Zilla 1K-LV because the Kelly couldn't maintain the hills, but it was a good EV start for me and I had it for a year before I could afford a Zilla.


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

How about kellys brushless controllers, do they suffer from the same history of blowing up? 

And how about those new "high power" brushless controllers? http://www.newkellycontroller.com/index.php?cPath=70

Can't remember ever reading about an ev with a brushless kelly controller...


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

All of the Kelly Controllers have been upgraded. 

Pete


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

crap said:


> How about kellys brushless controllers, do they suffer from the same history of blowing up?
> 
> And how about those new "high power" brushless controllers? http://www.newkellycontroller.com/index.php?cPath=70
> 
> Can't remember ever reading about an ev with a brushless kelly controller...


I've been using KBL controllers for two years now in my business without a single failure. I used six of them in different builds, never a failure. Now it's true you have to overrate them to get the continuous current you need. My customer have collectively purchased probably 30 more and i haven't heard of a single failure though I have only been selling in Ernest for 4 months

The models i have/am using 
KBL12401I 
KBL12227I

Another plus of the Kelly brushless controllers is the excellent Regen 
This is the product we are using the Kelly with

http://www.doingitall.net/EnerTrac 

One last note: As a business they are terrible to deal with they will not give my company any opportunity to resale there products even when i offer to buy ten at a time even 100 . They have even gone on my build thread over at Endless-Sphere trying to sell there Hub motor product bad mouthing mine in my thread. The admin deleted there comments. This may be why many companies don't carry the Kelly controller and bad mouth them.

Mark


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

markcycle said:


> I've been using KBL controllers for two years now in my business without a single failure. I used six of them in different builds, never a failure. Now it's true you have to overrate them to get the continuous current you need. My customer have collectively purchased probably 30 more and i haven't heard of a single failure though I have only been selling in Ernest for 4 months
> 
> The models i have/am using
> KBL12401I
> ...


Nice to hear that there has been little trubble. But then you do not use them to the full rated amps? I was sort of hoping that they would turn out to deliver what they promise without compromising reliability...

Is there potential for improving the cooling of the new controllers? Improving conductivity around the transistors or make a hole for a cooling fan right next to them?


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

I have a Kelly 12600b and have about 2000 miles on it. I even ran it the first 500 miles or so without a precharge resistor and it gave me no trouble at all. You can see in the picture I took after mounting it, there is no resistor across the Contactor. I have since installed a 1000ohm resistor just to be safer.
My Kelly is thermally mounted on a 3/16 inch aluminum board with 2-12v heat sinked muffin fans. I have only powered one of the fans and even during the summer months after extended drives the Kelly barely gets warm to the touch.
I have also since replaced the Curtis Pot with a Kelly Electric Throttle pedal.
I think, as with most equiptment, performance depends on how it is used.
My motor is small........not a 9" Warp.....it's a D&D Es-31B. My pack voltage is only 120v.......my Beetle weighs about 2700 lbs.
I rarely draw 2C on acceleration trying to keep the amp draw to 150-175amps. And I rarely cruise at more than 50mph.
My Kelly is probably oversized for its use.......which is a good thing.
I'll probably never stress it. Ask any EV builder should you oversize your battery pack? The answer is Yes if you want long life. Any equiptment constantly stressed to its upper limits will result in early failure. 
If you think you will constantly need 5-600amps....then by all means you should buy a 1000amp Zilla.
Just my .03
Roy


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

You should not use any controller at it's limits. They are there to help you pick what you need. Get a controller that will be greater than what your max will ever be. That way you will have greater reliability. Those who over volt their controllers and always take them up to the limits are the ones that quite often experience the release of the magic smoke. Then wonder why. I have a controller that will go to 700 amps and 156 volts if I choose. I run it with 96 volts and have never seen over 550 amp and that was for a fraction of a sec anyway starting once in 3rd gear. I try to be easy but I still drive pretty normal. 

Pete 

Get a controller that exceeds your needs no matter which one it is. 




crap said:


> Nice to hear that there has been little trubble. But then you do not use them to the full rated amps? I was sort of hoping that they would turn out to deliver what they promise without compromising reliability...
> 
> Is there potential for improving the cooling of the new controllers? Improving conductivity around the transistors or make a hole for a cooling fan right next to them?


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

gottdi said:


> You should not use any controller at it's limits. They are there to help you pick what you need. Get a controller that will be greater than what your max will ever be. That way you will have greater reliability. Those who over volt their controllers and always take them up to the limits are the ones that quite often experience the release of the magic smoke. Then wonder why. I have a controller that will go to 700 amps and 156 volts if I choose. I run it with 96 volts and have never seen over 550 amp and that was for a fraction of a sec anyway starting once in 3rd gear. I try to be easy but I still drive pretty normal.
> 
> Pete
> 
> Get a controller that exceeds your needs no matter which one it is.


That's not really how it's supposed to be. The controller is supposed to be able to handle what it claims to handle. If it says it can handle 600A for one minute and 300A continously then I expect it to do so. And quite honestly, I also expect it to handle 601amps for more than a second. The manufacturer should make their claims with a reasonable safety margin. 

But most importantly it needs to deliver it's claims, not necessarily any more but certainly no less. If it can't do that then the manufacturer is simply lying by overrating their controllers, and that's not ok.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

I too feel the controller should perform as claimed but my statement deals with the operator and not the controller. Most folks take things to the absolute limits and to be safe you really need to get components that are over the limits so you never need to max out your equipment. Most folks under estimate the true needs and expect the equipment to survive. If I pushed the 700 amp limits daily I would kill my controller long before it should die. 

The controller should not have to live on the edge of it's limits on a daily basis.

Pete


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

gottdi said:


> I too feel the controller should perform as claimed but my statement deals with the operator and not the controller. Most folks take things to the absolute limits and to be safe you really need to get components that are over the limits so you never need to max out your equipment. Most folks under estimate the true needs and expect the equipment to survive. If I pushed the 700 amp limits daily I would kill my controller long before it should die.
> 
> The controller should not have to live on the edge of it's limits on a daily basis.
> 
> Pete


Yeah but I sort of feel that if the controller claims to withstand 700A then 700A should not be the very edge of it's limit. The rated figures are not supposed to say "If you run the controller for 60 seconds at 700A it will die", they're supposed to say "It's ok to run the controller for 60 seconds at 700A". See what I mean? I want it to be *safe* to use it up to it's rated limits, but no further.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

Most folks would exceed this limit thinking it will live a happy life. Many ask if they can over volt the controller because the limits are higher. I prefer to live in the happy zone.your choice to live on the edge.


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

crap said:


> That's not really how it's supposed to be. The controller is supposed to be able to handle what it claims to handle. If it says it can handle 600A for one minute and 300A continously then I expect it to do so. And quite honestly, I also expect it to handle 601amps for more than a second. The manufacturer should make their claims with a reasonable safety margin.
> 
> But most importantly it needs to deliver it's claims, not necessarily any more but certainly no less. If it can't do that then the manufacturer is simply lying by overrating their controllers, and that's not ok.


 So i guess you drive your car at 120 MPH all the time because thats the limit. 
If you took anything you own to the limit, your stereo max volume all the time how long are those speaker going to last. Lets see I could list many more things that have a rated limit that you wouldn't take there because you know it wouldn't last long but a motor controller should run at its limit and give good reliability makes no sense.

Mark


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

markcycle said:


> So i guess you drive your car at 120 MPH all the time because thats the limit.
> If you took anything you own to the limit, your stereo max volume all the time how long are those speaker going to last. Lets see I could list many more things that have a rated limit that you wouldn't take there because you know it wouldn't last long but a motor controller should run at its limit and give good reliability makes no sense.
> 
> Mark


I haven't checked the manual, but I'm quite sure my car is not officially rated for 120mph continous, neither are the roads on which I am driving. The manufacturer does however claim that my car has a top speed of 120mph, and indeed it will reach those speeds without breaking down. My car also has a claimed peak power output which it will deliver when required.
I don't even have a stereo, but if I bought one and it had a max continous and max peak output I would expect it to deliver said outputs, and it probably would.

I can think of nothing that has an official rated output where it would not be considered fraud if it often lead to breakdown.

Also, I don't know about you, but where I'm from automotive parts are supposed to be reliable. I dare say you would not buy a new car with "100hp" if it actually broke downwhever you pressed the throttle more than half way down. The general public will demand that this not be the case for electric cars either if they are to be widely accepted.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

I don't but many expect their cars to handle and accelerate luk an Indy car. You see auto abuse all the time and I bet many if not most have taken a car way past it's design limits. One of my controllers is rated at 72 volts nominal but the charged pack is higher so does this mean I can go ahead and add another battery safely? No. I expect the controller to live within specs but not at that limit all the time. So my car is designed to go 120 mph but I can't expect it to live there or even at 90 mph all the time. If you want to push the limits expect early failure on any mechanical or electrical component. Now I could drive at 65 and expect decent service life. 

All I am saying is you should get more than your limits so you get better service life. A controller rated for 156 volts and 700 amps should live just fine but for how long! How many years would you expect it to live under that kind of load?


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

I wouldn't actually use the controller to it's limit all the time, I would acknowledge the impact this has on it's expected life. However, I would not accept a controller that had something like a 1 in 500 chance of blowing whenever those times come that I go near the rated current. The chance of that should be negligible, and it should only take damage when pushed beyond it's rated limits or having been constantly on the rated limits for a considerable time.

You see what I mean? There's a difference in what I demand of the controller and how I would use it, but I do demand that it can handle it's rated output when required.


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## markcycle (Nov 5, 2008)

crap said:


> I wouldn't actually use the controller to it's limit all the time, I would acknowledge the impact this has on it's expected life. However, I would not accept a controller that had something like a 1 in 500 chance of blowing whenever those times come that I go near the rated current. The chance of that should be negligible, and it should only take damage when pushed beyond it's rated limits or having been constantly on the rated limits for a considerable time.
> 
> You see what I mean? There's a difference in what I demand of the controller and how I would use it, but I do demand that it can handle it's rated output when required.


I do and I think in that respect Kelly controllers are OK They peak for one minute as the spec says and run at there continuous rating as needed.

The real grey area is the one minute rating they quote not so much the continuous rating

Mark


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## crap (Dec 5, 2009)

markcycle said:


> I do and I think in that respect Kelly controllers are OK They peak for one minute as the spec says and run at there continuous rating as needed.
> 
> The real grey area is the one minute rating they quote not so much the continuous rating
> 
> Mark


Sounds good. Nice to hear the continous rating is true since it does decide what speeds can be maintained, and what margin there is for a trailer or a heavy load of some kind. To bad the one-minute rating is a bit grey though, could be a problem in steep uphills...

In the end, I would probably buy a controller that can handle all foreseeable situations like long uphills, heavy loads and abnormally warm summer days within the the continous rating, using the one-minute rating only for hard accelerations. But under those circumstances I want there to be no reasonable chance of failure, same as with my normal car. I am still hoping for further evidence that kelly's can deliver this, it does start to sound promising.


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## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

crap said:


> Sounds good. Nice to hear the continous rating is true since it does decide what speeds can be maintained, and what margin there is for a trailer or a heavy load of some kind.


Don’t overlook the motor specs either. The motors we use can easily put out some 3X+ their rated HP… for brief periods of time! Check motor ratings. When climbing an extended grade, I watch my ammeter closely or I risk a toasted motor. My ADC 9” is rated 26HP continuous at 120V @ ~185A. One choice is to go with more voltage to up the HP. Or, while this manufacturer was the standard of the EV crowd in past years, there are now a few more heftier choices today for those willing to pay the price.


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