# 1997 Geo Metro



## AlexZ (Aug 26, 2008)

Hey Guys,

I think i found the a donor car, a 5 speed 97 geo metro hatchback, its got 2xx,xxx km on it. the body looks in pretty good condition and its selling for $1k cdn, i think i can drop it down to 700-800. What are your opinons on this?

Also, what is the load capacity on this car? Ive always wondered where I can find this information.

with 1800lb curb weight, its got some really nice potential for a range/performance car.

I might end up buying it tonight, so any suggestions are highly apreciated, thank you!


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

While geo metros aren't the sexiest cars out there, they are great EV conversion candidates. light (about the lightest modern car you can get) and also about as aerodynamic as you can in a modern car.

Many geo metros have been converted. A fellow in seattle here has done two dozen of them. 

Typical configuration (with lead acid) for a 3-door geo can fit 10 to 16 lead acid golf cart traction batteries with pack voltages from 96 to 144v are common. One metro around here has 21 golf cart batteries in it for a 126v system though they had to modify the front end to fit that many batteries in behind a new front bumper. 

A DC 8" or 6.7" motor depending on your hill situation and battery size and a curtis controller is a very common setup. 

Look at the http://www.austinev.org/evalbum and the diyelectriccar "garage" to see what is out there, you've got lots of precedent to learn from.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I am working on this same car (mine is a suzuki swift). Great choice I think. you may want to read through my design decisions, and follow along with what I have had to fabricate for racks, mounts, etc. My site has a ton of pictures, but I am only about half-done.


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## AlexZ (Aug 26, 2008)

Great thank you for the replies guys,

and I am reading your webiste now dtbaker, thank you, seems very helpfull.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

thanks, I am in process of designing a second rack in the front for 2 batteries, with the remaining 6 to be under the rear seat. Anyway, the front two are going to require an interesting rack AND a hood modification.

I am wondering if anyone has a rack design for me to look at in detail, or if i am re-inventing the wheel on this one.... again. I am interested in specific where others may have chosen to mount the rack to the chassis, and how to best modify the hood to allow for the height of the batteries which llok like they will poke up a little too high.

d


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## AlexZ (Aug 26, 2008)

Im back,

I just purchased a black 1995 pontiac firefly for $300 cdn. The body is in very nice shape with a few minor rust spots. The engine was blown so i had to tow it in, but that was covered.

Ill start taking apart the ICE components next week when I get back from work. and start finalizing my decisions on a motor.

Im still not 100% on deciding between AC or DC, warp 9 or 11.

and I think im gona go with a small li-ion pack for acceleration only that will charge on the fly off the lead acid batteries, but this will be a later implemintation after the most basic.

Im not going to hook up power steering for my basic implementation as well, is it dangerious to not hook up the power breaks as well? or can u just do both manual for starters?

Also im almost certain that im going to machine my own adapter plate, is there a pre designed layout for this car with some common motors i can get my hands on?

Also, what is the purpose to having a fly wheel, is it just so that the motor dosent rip the trani apart from a quick start?

sorry for all the questsions but im excited


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

AlexZ said:


> Im back,
> I just purchased a black 1995 pontiac firefly for $300 cdn. The body is in very nice shape with a few minor rust spots. The engine was blown so i had to tow it in, but that was covered.


cool! sounds like a good deal, and you might still get something from the motor by scrapping it...



AlexZ said:


> Im still not 100% on deciding between AC or DC, warp 9 or 11.


AC will double your cost. AND... unless you plan to race it, I don't think you'll need more than a ADC 8". In fact, a 9" dia may pose some clearance problems with the axle, my 8 barely fits.



AlexZ said:


> Im not going to hook up power steering for my basic implementation as well, is it dangerious to not hook up the power breaks as well? or can u just do both manual for starters?


The Suzuki does not have power steering. If yours does, you probably will want to trade out the rack for a manual one. You FOR SURE want to install electric vacuum pump to enable power brakes unless you have very strong legs.



AlexZ said:


> Also im almost certain that im going to machine my own adapter plate, is there a pre designed layout for this car with some common motors i can get my hands on?


All the conversion guys have adaptors for the metro/swift/firefly to ADC 8". I got mine from CanEV to preserve the clutch for 'normal' shifting.



AlexZ said:


> Also, what is the purpose to having a fly wheel, is it just so that the motor dosent rip the trani apart from a quick start?


No 'real' reason to preserve the clutch flywheel, and some good arguments to remove and save the weight. But it presents different challenges to build the hub and get the stack height correct between motor and tranny.
If you happen to have access to mills and lathes and really want to DIY, then poke around for details on the clutchless design. There is a u-tube clip on a guy showing the design process, but I don't have the link...


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Didn't he say he got a Firefly? I haven't seen any of those converted yet but it should make a nice little EV!!

Ben


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Didn't he say he got a Firefly? I haven't seen any of those converted yet but it should make a nice little EV!!
> 
> Ben


Geo Metro / Suzuki Swift / Pontiac Firefly are all 'the same' manufactured by suzuki. Or so I'm told.

D


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## TelnetManta (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahah, I didn't know that! For some reason I was picturing a Sunfire....


Ben


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

AlexZ said:


> Im not going to hook up power steering for my basic implementation as well, is it dangerious to not hook up the power breaks as well? or can u just do both manual for starters?


I've driven a car with power brakes who's engine stopped while driving. Although I safely pulled over - I wouldn't want to do that on a daily basis. Also remember you're adding hundreds of pounds of Lead to the vehicle you have to stop as well. I recommend picking up the electric pump...


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

Yes, firefly = metro = swift... 

I an part way through converting a 1990 firefly convertible, with 8" advanced DC motor, and adapter plate/flywheel adapter from Canev. I wanted a Zilla controller, but now will probably settle for a Curtis.

Randy (owner of Canev) does a full kit of parts for the firefly/metro/swift/cultus. Including pre-built battery boxes. 

Definitely you should keep the clutch, else you'll trash the syncro hubs in the gear box really fast! (You can get a tuning shop to remove the starter gear-ring and ballance/lighten it.) I used one from a turbo swift that was much lighter in the first place.


And yes, you'll need a vac pump, or swap the power assisted master cylinder for a manual one. Without the vacuum you'll need to build up some serious beef in your leg!

Randy's based on Vancouver Island. AlexZ sounds like you're in Canada? I'm in Whistler, BC, if you are near, get in touch!


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

good to know there are a fe wmore gwo/swift/fireflies under construction.... I am about to start the rear battery box. Decided to go with us8vgchcx batteries so the pre-fab boxes won't work.

Looks like I will need a small hood scoop to allow for taller batteries, but ok since I can cool the controller. Preliminary measurements look like I might be able to use a subaru wrx scoop if I can find one cheap, or just custom it when I get there....


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## colinmcc (Oct 19, 2008)

Randy at Canev recommends dropping the gearbox (and thus the motor) by 3/4 of an inch or so (to get the batteries in under the hood) by extending the bulkhead/gearbox mount downwards. Early cars have two bolts that can be 'extended' by longer bolts and a spacer or stack of washers. Later cars have a fixed mount, and he recommends replacing that with one from an early car.

He also recomends moving the front engine mount forwards 3/4", I've done that too. The 5 battery box just squeeks in, although the front of the brake master cylinder actually sits in a hole in the battery box! A tight fit! 

I've done that on mine and it doesn't seem to affect the gear change or axle geometry much.. 

Might give you the room you need under the hood for your battery pack too?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

colinmcc said:


> Randy at Canev recommends dropping the gearbox (and thus the motor) by 3/4 of an inch or so (to get the batteries in under the hood)


well.... moving the mounts sounded like a heck of a lot more work than adding a hood scoop to me, especially when I am thinking that the scoop may do a great job cooling the controller. Also the us8vgchcx batteries are taller than standard group 31 batteries, so I probably would have had to do a scoop ANYWAY.

I have my mid rack 'done' now, and it will give me a spot for two batteries (for a total of 6 under the hood... I got 4 on my custom crossmember after chopping out the stock one) and space to mount all the electric components, so I think its going to be fine. Preliminary measurements indicate that I'll need to fabricate a scoop about 2 or 3" tall and about 17 or 18" wide.... which happens to be real close to what the Subaru WRX scoop is if I can find one to play with.


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## AlexZ (Aug 26, 2008)

So I got the engine out a few days ago. Now trying to find a good deal on a motor and design an adapter plate and controller.

After measuring the transmision, it seems like a 9" motor might just fit, i measured about 5.5 inches from center to drive shaft. Can anyone confirm?

Also is there anything I should know before ordering the motor? anything custom i need from the seller?

and yes I am from Canada, Ontario, Brampton (near Toronto).


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

AlexZ said:


> So I got the engine out a few days ago. Now trying to find a good deal on a motor and design an adapter plate and controller.
> 
> After measuring the transmision, it seems like a 9" motor might just fit, i measured about 5.5 inches from center to drive shaft. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> ...


I would recommend not going larger than an 8"... you will be VERY close to the center-rear engine mount with an 8" ADC diameter wise. I dunno about other motors.
On my site I have a couple pictures in the motor mount section where you can see what I am talking about. Besides, you really don't need more than 8" unless you wanna race or scare your girlfriend.

Unless you are a machinist... just order an adaptor kit from CanEV.com . I got all my other stuff in one big package from kta-ev.com . If you do, you can skip the $137 motor mount clamp if you take a look at mine... If you order motor and controller from one place sometimes they are willing to give you a deal.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

TelnetManta said:


> Ahah, I didn't know that! For some reason I was picturing a Sunfire...
> Ben


No, I'm doing a Sunfire, see:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...php?albumid=21


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> No, I'm doing a Sunfire, see:
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...php?albumid=21



oh, I was assuming metro/swift in this thread.....


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> oh, I was assuming metro/swift in this thread.....


Yes, This is a Metro/Swift/Firefly thread. I was answering the guy who confused a Firefly with a Sunfire.

Joe


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