# [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> I'm not going to debate which interface is overall better ( 'course
> it depends), question is about EVision: if you'd have to choose
> between RS232 and USB type (both isolated; cost speed and all else being
> equal), which one would you rather have?

Victor,
Since you are asking, I can tell you about my wish list....
(note, I cannot say whether I will be a customer,
but other customers in the future might be like me 

I love my real live Serial Ports. (Ever since I went to the
Celeste Stokely School of Serial Port Documentation 
That being said, lots of things have USB.
My laptop has USB. My PHONE has USB.

Would it be possible to have USB...AND to provide power to it?
And especially, if you can support HOST mode and device mode.
(I am not sure precisely the difference, or what it will take
to do this  The OpenMoko software can support
drawing power from USB even when in Host mode,
and it sounds like that is how it would be used for this app.

Thanks
Seth

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

RS-232. The two biggest reasons being that it handles noise better in
my experience and that it is simple to connect two. The over head
required to connect to USB is a pain for something that is going to be
using a dedicated port. Most of the standard is build around the idea
that multiple devices with multiple end points will all be connected
threw that one jack.



> Victor Tikhonov<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Victor,

Just a technical point, you can avoid the need for special drivers, and 
provide compatibility with virtually all PCs by having the USB interface 
emulate a FAT file system, your device *looks* like a USB key to the 
PC. I/O is by reading/writing a file, or files, so there's no need to 
write APIs or Drivers on the PC side, and any PC can be accomodated.

I have 3 laptops (2 PCs, 1 Mac), and a Mac Mini, none of them have 
serial ports, only my lone desktop machine has one.



> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I am running a new macbook with windows xp pro sp2 installed and when 
running in windows and using my usb rs232 cable I can access my 
controller just fine. It does require a driver but it is available to 
download. Works perfect.

Pete 


I was able to ditch the PC and now I use only one computer to do it 
all. 





> Paul Wujek wrote:
> 
> > Hi Victor,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you do go USB, I'd recommend a chip by FTDI; they provide (in my
experience) high quality drivers for all recent OS's.

On the other hand, you could just stick with serial and recommend a
converter cable made with an FTDI chip. It sounds like most people
want serial anyways.

-Morgan LaMoore



> Victor Tikhonov<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Serial!

USB may be convenient for hooking up to a laptop but a pain in the
arse if you want to interface the EVision to a non windows/linux/macos
device.

A compromise may be to throw a FTDI USB2SERIAL chip on the EVision and
bring out both serial and USB.







> Victor Tikhonov<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Would it be rude if I asked for an SD slot instead of a serial or USB 
port?

I would want the port for data logging, but I don't want a laptop 
rattling around in my EV. Why not just log the data to the card? No 
cables, no computer, no isolation worries.

Configuration changes could be made to a config file on the SD card. 
Different SD cards could have different configs, etc.

I have no current plans to purchase the EVision, so feel free to 
ignore this suggestion.



> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like Morgan and Peter's suggestions...

>>>On the other hand, you could just stick with serial
>>>and recommend a converter cable made with an FTDI chip

or even better, throw in the cable.
In bulk, they should not be expensive.
This is what Sun Microsystems does.
(oh, I mean, the Sun Division of Oracle, Inc. 


Or as Peter suggested - fewer widgets to lose if you....

>>>throw a FTDI USB2SERIAL chip on the EVision
>>> and bring out both serial and USB

(just lose the real estate on the case, right?)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

USB

Sent from my iPhone



> Victor Tikhonov <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Victor Tikhonov<[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > EVision: if you'd have to choose
> > between RS232 and USB type (both isolated; cost speed and all else being
> > equal), which one would you rather have?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Hi All,
>
> Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> who had difficulty finding right USB-serial adapter for their
> "serial-less" laptops (as they are all these days) expressed
> wish to rather have a USB connection on EVision.
>
> USB is more PC OS dependent than plain serial, drivers and other
> settings interacting with the OS needed though it is was made
> quite robust. Occasionally devices are not recognized and had to
> be re-plugged. Also USB tend to be more consumer-oriented
> than industrial apps relying on well mature RS232 (or 485), though
> the gap narrows, especially for serious bench instrumentation - it
> appears like anything meant to be connected to a PC has USB port
> (I guess, just because PC's no longer have serial ports...).
>
> I'm not going to debate which interface is overall better ( 'course
> it depends), question is about EVision: if you'd have to choose
> between RS232 and USB type (both isolated; cost speed and all else
> being equal), which one would you rather have?
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Victor
> MMC

At first blush, I think for me, it doesn't matter.

But USB does present some options. I wonder if we are thinking the wrong
way here, If it could be host mode maybe the concept needs to be that
you plug any usb key into it and let it write to it all the data
collected. Perhaps later giving it the ability to also plug in one of
those little usb gps modules. Then I can press a button and when some
indicator lights, remove the key and stick in a blank one. I can take
this key into the house and archive the data or post it on the web or
whatever.

Now if streaming the data is what we want, then can or serial makes a
bit more sense.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> > who had difficulty finding right USB-serial adapter for their
> > "serial-less" laptops (as they are all these days) expressed
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Tom and all,

Thanks for your opinions. It's not finalized yet, but based on
responsest I see on- and off line, the serial port stays and *that* 
serial port to USB adapter provided as nominal cost for anyone who'd
want it.

Remember, the main purpose of the port is initial set up of the EVision 
- alarms limits, tire diameter, diff ratio, all things custom to
the user. Once done, you'd rarely use the port unless your config 
changes. Few gear heads interested collecting data usually take laptops
with them anyway, and there is limited amount of times you'd do that.

The USB host ability would allow to talk to a slave device
(like a memory stick), but for that you'd need a host controller
(FTDI's VNC1L or similar). I use it in the BMS design but there
you collect quite a lot of data so either memory stick or SD card
accepts streaming data from the host (the BMS), so no PC needed.
But the BMS has friendly interface - an LCD screen to tell you what's 
going on. There is no such thing for EVision other than on the screen
of connected PC, so we're back to square one...

As far a USB "host", PC is always the host, and to the stick any host 
controller looks like a "PC".

For EVision this is overkill and will require better input interface
to start/stop data streaming, format the card, etc. All doable,
but would raise the cost (mainly software dev. cost share) while 
benefiting relatively few. This part can be added relatively easy
later, so after couple of hundred more units gets sold, there will be
enough feedback to decide if this worth implementing.

I don't want to offer 6-7 flavors of the gadget to have on board any
possible combination of features a user might wish, it is not
feasible from maintenance and manufacturability point of view.
For one-off hobby unit 'course anything goes. It would be acceptable for 
me to have an option to leave part of the PCB unpopulated but ready to 
accept few extra components if needed, then there is only one set of 
hardware to manufacture.

To make 1000 same units you get better price break than for 500 of one
flavor and 500 for different flavor, so the manufacturer has decisions 
to make an end user normally never thinks about.

Anyway, thanks all for helping to shape the opinion on this and sense
what people prefer - will try to find acceptable compromise to make 
everyone happy  Email me on or off line for new ideas/features you'd 
want to get implemented - just keep in mind that EVision essentially
is the battery performance measurement instrument and not really meant 
to control unrelated hardware. It does some of it now, but these 
functions come "for free" as are only software additions.

Victor

--
'91 ACRX - something different
'01 in-AUDI-ble - handsome car with 0.4 MW AC drive - work in progress


Tom Parker wrote:
>


> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >> Next rev of EVision is about to be finalized and few users
> >> who had difficulty finding right USB-serial adapter for their
> >> "serial-less" laptops (as they are all these days) expressed
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sure but you also must remember that many folks are moving to laptops 
and most that I am aware of don't use the serial port anymore. So you 
really need to focus on the most current and the most common port 
available. That happens to be at this time, USB. I prefer the laptop 
and if I were a PC person I would also prefer the serial port but 
since not everyone is a PC person and not everyone uses a laptop with 
a serial port then something else must be utilized and that happens to 
be the good ol USB interface. At some point in the future even the USB 
interface will become obsolete and a new form of port communications 
will need to be utilized, like maybe wireless. 

Pete 






> Robert Johnston wrote:
> 
> > Why not both?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 13 Jul 2009 at 6:54, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Sure but you also must remember that many folks are moving to laptops
> > and most that I am aware of don't use the serial port anymore.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

PCMCIA is getting long in the tooth. Last laptop I bought had plenty
of USB ports but no PCMCIA or serial ports. It also has an SD card
slot.



> EVDL Administrator<[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 13 Jul 2009 at 6:54, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> Sure but you also must remember that many folks are moving to laptops
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My current laptop has no PCMCIA slot but it has some kind of
mini-pci-e slot that is equivalent. I used to have an RS-232 adapter
card for it. I know we have probably all had bad experiences with USB
to RS232 adapters but would it be that hard to maintain a list of know
good ones. I would not be surprised if some PLC company already does
this since they have the same problem.

Has any one considered using infrared in some way? You could have a
shielded IR port to plug an optical cable into and then use an RS-232
to USB adapter with an IR pair in it for the PC connection.



> dave cover<[email protected]> wrote:
> > PCMCIA is getting long in the tooth. Last laptop I bought had plenty
> > of USB ports but no PCMCIA or serial ports. It also has an SD card
> > slot.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup 
(just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking 
protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).

It's a shame RS232 is all but gone from computers. It's so handy for 
tinkerers and doesn't require any drivers or involved setup (other than 
getting baud, etc right).

- SteveS



> evan foss wrote:
> > My current laptop has no PCMCIA slot but it has some kind of
> > mini-pci-e slot that is equivalent. I used to have an RS-232 adapter
> > card for it. I know we have probably all had bad experiences with USB
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have seen some very badly done USB-RS232 Adapters but I guess that
could just be my bad luck and cheapness.



> SteveS<[email protected]> wrote:
> > In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> > (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> > protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would vote to keep the RS232 port but you could consider adding a chip like the FT232RL and a couple of jumpers which would allow you to offer both. I guess it would add 10-15 dollars to the cost for the chip and socket. Sparkfun offers a breakout board with the chip and USB socket for about $15. In any event having the RS232 option at least allows the end user to decide, bypassing it with direct to USB leaves those without the necessary drivers up a creek. As pointed out some RS232 to USB adapters are a little hard to get working but I have found once I do they work ok, it's the little things like changing COM#'s in windows when you use a different USB port that drives me mad.

My 2 cents, Lawrence

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=650
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=718


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of evan foss
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited

I have seen some very badly done USB-RS232 Adapters but I guess that
could just be my bad luck and cheapness.



> SteveS<[email protected]> wrote:
> > In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> > (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> > protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think you are missing the fact that you can get a small dangle that gives you a serial port from usb.
I'm for serial. Usb I assume would cost more and serial actually works every time without driver issues.
------Original Message------
From: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
ReplyTo: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited
Sent: Jul 13, 2009 9:54 AM

Sure but you also must remember that many folks are moving to laptops 
and most that I am aware of don't use the serial port anymore. So you 
really need to focus on the most current and the most common port 
available. That happens to be at this time, USB. I prefer the laptop 
and if I were a PC person I would also prefer the serial port but 
since not everyone is a PC person and not everyone uses a laptop with 
a serial port then something else must be utilized and that happens to 
be the good ol USB interface. At some point in the future even the USB 
interface will become obsolete and a new form of port communications 
will need to be utilized, like maybe wireless. 

Pete 






> Robert Johnston wrote:
> 
> > Why not both?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The thing is that USB doesn't really have the kind of noise immunity
that you would want in an EV.

Incidentally I know some people who have used RS-232 for a number of
things and the driver does some very ugly things when it loads besides
just change COM#'s in windows. You can work around all these things
but why not just tell people to buy their own USB-RS232 adapter?

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Harris,
Lawrence<[email protected]> wrote:
> I would vote to keep the RS232 port but you could consider adding a chip =
like the FT232RL and a couple of jumpers which would allow you to offer bot=
h. I guess it would add 10-15 dollars to the cost for the chip and socke=
t. Sparkfun offers a breakout board with the chip and USB socket for abo=
ut $15. In any event having the RS232 option at least allows the end use=
r to decide, bypassing it with direct to USB leaves those without the neces=
sary drivers up a creek. As pointed out some RS232 to USB adapters are a=
little hard to get working but I have found once I do they work ok, it's t=
he little things like changing COM#'s in windows when you use a different U=
SB port that drives me mad.
>
> My 2 cents, Lawrence
>
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=3D650
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=3D718
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of evan foss
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:35 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited
>
> I have seen some very badly done USB-RS232 Adapters but I guess that
> could just be my bad luck and cheapness.
>
>


> SteveS<[email protected]> wrote:
> >> In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> >> (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> >> protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Actually, it's not that hard to get an older laptop with a serial port on 
it. Pretty reasonable on eBay. Just have to use an old one dedicated for the 
car!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SteveS" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited


> In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).
>
> It's a shame RS232 is all but gone from computers. It's so handy for
> tinkerers and doesn't require any drivers or involved setup (other than
> getting baud, etc right).
>
> - SteveS
>


> > evan foss wrote:
> >> My current laptop has no PCMCIA slot but it has some kind of
> >> mini-pci-e slot that is equivalent. I used to have an RS-232 adapter
> >> card for it. I know we have probably all had bad experiences with USB
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The FTDI-based UC232R-10 ($19 at DigiKey) claims to support hardware
and X-On/X-Off handshaking. I haven't tested out the handshaking, but
I've found their drivers to be great so far, so I'd be inclined to
trust them with it.

If you're talking about tinkering with microcontrollers, my solar car
team found that a FT232R and USB connector is actually cheaper than a
serial transciever and a serial connector. The microcontroller code is
identical in either case, and FTDI provides good drivers that expose
your device as a serial port to other computer programs.

-Morgan LaMoore



> SteveS<[email protected]> wrote:
> > In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> > (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> > protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

PCMCIA is going the way of the dinosaur too. I use my MacBook and run 
Windows XP Pro sp2 and have no access to PCMCIA or Serial and many 
computers do not even have PCMCIA. It is changing. But there are still 
those who have serial and PCMCIA and USB. But if your not wanting to 
change then you get left behind. Change is going to happen if you like 
it or not. I like all aspects but many are going away and moving 
forward is required. I am glad I can access my controller and VW via 
my USB. Change is expected and welcomed here. I just hope that the 
programmers are willing to take the new and make it work. Sure USB is 
not as easy to implement but it can be done.


Pete 





> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> 
> > On 13 Jul 2009 at 6:54, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In my experience whether the USB-to-RS232 adapters work is a real 
crap-shoot.

I have had to try up to 4 or 5 different manufacturers to get one that 
will work on a given laptop, with a given version of WIndows, and then 
to go to the next machine and go through the whole thing again, trying 
to find a combination that works (this is in a shop with multiple 
engineers using a bunch of different machines).

evan foss wrote:
> I have seen some very badly done USB-RS232 Adapters but I guess that
> could just be my bad luck and cheapness.
>
>


> SteveS<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> >> (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why go backwards and spend more only for talking to your car? I hated 
having to buy a PC so I could interact with my VW via VAGCOM 
interface. Now my mac does the same thing and I only need one advanced 
computer and my usb access works perfect.

The point is to keep moving forward with modern computers and access 
to external devices. I could go spend some on a dedicated computer but 
then I'd have to maintain that one as well as my regular computer. I 
do not want a room full of dedicated components. I want as best as I 
can get an all in one option with the least amount of external 
connection devices.




> joe wrote:
> 
> > Actually, it's not that hard to get an older laptop with a serial
> > port on
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> SteveS wrote:
> > In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> > (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> > protocol is used, both physical (RTS/DTR) and software (XON/XOFF).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tom Parker<[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 13:17 -0400, SteveS wrote:
> >> In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> >> (just tx/rx, no handshaking). I've seen problems when a handshaking
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I forgot to mention if you are making a new USB device you have to pay
(a yearly fee) to get the USB ID# listed by the USB standards group or
what ever. This is how Plug and Pray works.



> evan foss<[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Tom Parker<[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 13:17 -0400, SteveS wrote:
> >>> In my experience, USB-RS232 adapters work fairly well in a simple setup
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The nice thing about RS-232 is that it's a dumb port, so it'll talk to any
device of any horsepower, from a supercomputer to a Basic Stamp or AtMega.
A USB port requires that the device be a USB host, which excludes a lot of
handhelds and embedded platforms, and has the necessary drivers, which could
exclude operating systems other than OS X or Windows 98+.

I would imagine that RS-232 is also easier to opto-isolate, which may be a
plus in a high voltage automotive environment.


Tim

------------
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:48:23 -0500
From: Morgan LaMoore <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited

The FTDI-based UC232R-10 ($19 at DigiKey) claims to support hardware
and X-On/X-Off handshaking. I haven't tested out the handshaking, but
I've found their drivers to be great so far, so I'd be inclined to
trust them with it.

If you're talking about tinkering with microcontrollers, my solar car
team found that a FT232R and USB connector is actually cheaper than a
serial transciever and a serial connector. The microcontroller code is
identical in either case, and FTDI provides good drivers that expose
your device as a serial port to other computer programs.

-Morgan LaMoore
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think that is what I was trying to say about adding the USB adapter to the module as a jumper'ed option. Those that want to or need to USB have that option. In retrospect I think an even better option would be to put a 3.3v or 5v logic level interface on the back and then offer two cables, one with RS232 level shifters and one with an USB to RS232 chip. Both cables would cost maybe $15/$20 and then allow you to use whichever option you like without further complicating the EVision itself.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:25 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited

Why go backwards and spend more only for talking to your car? I hated 
having to buy a PC so I could interact with my VW via VAGCOM 
interface. Now my mac does the same thing and I only need one advanced 
computer and my usb access works perfect.

The point is to keep moving forward with modern computers and access 
to external devices. I could go spend some on a dedicated computer but 
then I'd have to maintain that one as well as my regular computer. I 
do not want a room full of dedicated components. I want as best as I 
can get an all in one option with the least amount of external 
connection devices.




> joe wrote:
> 
> > Actually, it's not that hard to get an older laptop with a serial
> > port on
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Harris,
Lawrence<[email protected]> wrote:
> I think that is what I was trying to say about adding the USB adapter to =
the module as a jumper'ed option. Those that want to or need to USB have=
that option. In retrospect I think an even better option would be to pu=
t a 3.3v or 5v logic level interface on the

I don't think this would hold up well against interference.

> back and then offer two cables, one with RS232 level shifters and one wit=
h an USB to RS232 chip. Both cables would cost maybe $15/$20 and then al=
low you to use whichever option you like without further complicating the E=
Vision itself.
>
> Lawrence
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:25 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited
>
> Why go backwards and spend more only for talking to your car? I hated
> having to buy a PC so I could interact with my VW via VAGCOM
> interface. Now my mac does the same thing and I only need one advanced
> computer and my usb access works perfect.
>
> The point is to keep moving forward with modern computers and access
> to external devices. I could go spend some on a dedicated computer but
> then I'd have to maintain that one as well as my regular computer. I
> do not want a room full of dedicated components. I want as best as I
> can get an all in one option with the least amount of external
> connection devices.
>
>
>


> joe wrote:
> >
> >> Actually, it's not that hard to get an older laptop with a serial
> >> port on
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think you misunderstood me - though I didn't actually say it. The logic =
level interface is already there, a small plug containing the level shifter=
s or USB chip would be on the end plugged into the EVision, I would not run=
the logic level any distance. As an addition you could also do an RS-422 =
or other interface using this option as your needs required.

Picture the back of the EVision with a 6 pin .1 space socket. Now you have=
a small circuit board with a mating 6 pin header containing (a) the RS232 =
level shifters (b) the USB chip or (c) anything else you want. This board =
is mated with the EVision, a couple of small bolts attach to some captive n=
uts to hold it firmly in place and the signal cable runs from there to wher=
ever you need it.

O - small hole for bolt or suitable screw for mounting
X - pin to mate with the EVision socket, the front 4 are RX/TX/CTS/RTS,
the back 2 are power and ground so the board is keyed and can't be
plugged in backwards.

+-----------------------+
|O X O|
| X X |
| X X |
|O X O|
+-----------------------+

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of evan foss
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Harris,
Lawrence<[email protected]> wrote:
> I think that is what I was trying to say about adding the USB adapter to =
the module as a jumper'ed option. Those that want to or need to USB have=
that option. In retrospect I think an even better option would be to pu=
t a 3.3v or 5v logic level interface on the

I don't think this would hold up well against interference.

> back and then offer two cables, one with RS232 level shifters and one wit=
h an USB to RS232 chip. Both cables would cost maybe $15/$20 and then al=
low you to use whichever option you like without further complicating the E=
Vision itself.
>
> Lawrence
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:25 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited
>
> Why go backwards and spend more only for talking to your car? I hated
> having to buy a PC so I could interact with my VW via VAGCOM
> interface. Now my mac does the same thing and I only need one advanced
> computer and my usb access works perfect.
>
> The point is to keep moving forward with modern computers and access
> to external devices. I could go spend some on a dedicated computer but
> then I'd have to maintain that one as well as my regular computer. I
> do not want a room full of dedicated components. I want as best as I
> can get an all in one option with the least amount of external
> connection devices.
>
>
>


> joe wrote:
> >
> >> Actually, it's not that hard to get an older laptop with a serial
> >> port on
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Harris,
Lawrence<[email protected]> wrote:
> I think you misunderstood me - though I didn't actually say it. The lo=
gic level interface is already there, a small plug containing

No that I understand. It is just that providing it externally to the
case would let noise in.

>the level shifters or USB chip would be on the end plugged into the EVisio=
n, I would not run the logic level any distance.

This is the part you didn't say. Now I get it.

> As an addition you could also do an RS-422 or other interface using th=
is option as your needs required.
> Picture the back of the EVision with a 6 pin .1 space socket. Now you =
have a small circuit board with a mating 6 pin header containing (a) the RS=
232 level shifters (b) the USB chip or (c) anything else you want. This =
board is mated with the EVision, a couple of small bolts attach to some cap=
tive nuts to hold it firmly in place and the signal cable runs from there t=
o wherever you need it.

If you were going to do this why bother having anything other than a
space in the case with logic power and logic level RS-232. Let the use
add the usb/rs-422/whatever adapter into that space.

So just stick with RS-232 if you are going to have modules to convert
it into everything else.

>
> O - small hole for bolt or suitable screw for mounting
> X - pin to mate with the EVision socket, the front 4 are RX/TX/CTS/RTS,
> the back 2 are power and ground so the board is keyed and can't be
> plugged in backwards.
>
> +-----------------------+
> |O X O|
> | X X |
> | X X |
> |O X O|
> +-----------------------+
>
> Lawrence
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of evan foss
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:19 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Harris,
> Lawrence<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I think that is what I was trying to say about adding the USB adapter to=
the module as a jumper'ed option. Those that want to or need to USB hav=
e that option. In retrospect I think an even better option would be to p=
ut a 3.3v or 5v logic level interface on the
>
> I don't think this would hold up well against interference.
>
>> back and then offer two cables, one with RS232 level shifters and one wi=
th an USB to RS232 chip. Both cables would cost maybe $15/$20 and then a=
llow you to use whichever option you like without further complicating the =
EVision itself.
>>
>> Lawrence
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Be=
half Of [email protected]
>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:25 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVision comm port - vote solicited
>>
>> Why go backwards and spend more only for talking to your car? I hated
>> having to buy a PC so I could interact with my VW via VAGCOM
>> interface. Now my mac does the same thing and I only need one advanced
>> computer and my usb access works perfect.
>>
>> The point is to keep moving forward with modern computers and access
>> to external devices. I could go spend some on a dedicated computer but
>> then I'd have to maintain that one as well as my regular computer. I
>> do not want a room full of dedicated components. I want as best as I
>> can get an all in one option with the least amount of external
>> connection devices.
>>
>>
>>


> joe wrote:
> >>
> >>> Actually, it's not that hard to get an older laptop with a serial
> >>> port on
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> evan foss <[email protected]> wrote:
> > If you were going to do this why bother having anything other than a
> > space in the case with logic power and logic level RS-232. Let the use
> > add the usb/rs-422/whatever adapter into that space.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Morgan LaMoore<[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:25 PM, evan foss <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> If you were going to do this why bother having anything other than a
> >> space in the case with logic power and logic level RS-232. Let the use
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would definitely say USB. I don't know if any modern laptops even
have serial ports. I would guess most people are going to have to get
an adapter if it stays serial.
When is the new version going to be available? price?
My brusa display is acting up so I may upgrade here one of these days...
Cheers,
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225





> evan foss<[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 12:53 AM, Morgan LaMoore<[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:25 PM, evan foss <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> If you were going to do this why bother having anything other than a
> ...


----------

