# Electric car NOW!



## Hemon Dey (Jul 31, 2008)

Do you think this could work for NZ?
http://www.sahkoautot.fi/eng

The site doesn't yet have a lot of information but the idea of a group of us getting together to do the ordering in bulk seems to make a lot of sense to me. If this means we can get the most of the bit ordered in sufficient quantity as to attract a commercial discount, it might be worth considering?

The organisation may not be quite so mammoth, but would require dedication from its members ... as well as enough "buy ins" to make the effort worth while. Has anybody considered this or something similar?

Regards,
Hemon


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## Hadleigh Reid (Jul 22, 2008)

Sounds good. Should help with shipping too i guess. Only prob is that im a little impatient when i want something! Like a WarP 11"... hmm


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

I think the bulk ordering idea is a very good one, if there are no local suppliers for the kit. It could start as simply as a shared worksheet that people can put their tentative orders on.


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## Hemon Dey (Jul 31, 2008)

I'd really like to get some ideas on how this could be done, here are some of the things which we might like to think about:

1/
We need to build up a list of requirements from various interested parties.

2/
Then we need to rationalise parts from the list (ie. where possible get similar kits from a single vendor to attact a better discount).

3/
Organise the best shipping method, where to ship to, and how to distribute the parts once they arrived in NZ.

4/
An organised way of colleting the monies in a safe way so that everybody can be confident enough to entrust it to the funds keeper. This can be quite tricky as we may be dealing with multi thousands of dollars. This will probably take a little bit of organising if we want to do it with a contractual agreement etc. 

... I'll write to the guys in Finland and see if they can give us some ideas. Please feel free to add your thoughts.

Regards,
Hemon


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## linz (May 18, 2008)

Maybe consider contacting EV clubs, like in aussie, uk and elsewhere (may not be such a prob. for the US as lots of big suppliers there, but they may order from china sometimes), an easy way would be to post on the other diyelectriccar forums.


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## paulmo_on_tour (Aug 31, 2008)

Hello all,

If I might add my two cents, no wait, no cents here, my 10 cents worth. How about www.betterplace.com instead? 

Read about this in "WIRED" the other night and thought, If he needed an island nation, NZ would be it. 

Instead of making the car, they are starting with the recharging grid, and working back to making the car. They have Renualt/Nissan on board. And possible a "US carmaker" 

I like the idea of starting with the grid, almost makes sense, gives a "standard" to work against for cars. Any thoughts?

Of course there's always Tesla I'd dig that.

Paul Summers


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## Hadleigh Reid (Jul 22, 2008)

I think Better Place is awesome and will romp through the smaller and more world conscious nations. Maybe if John Key gets in ;-)


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## carrott (Aug 19, 2008)

*Re: better place*



paulmo_on_tour said:


> If I might add my two cents, no wait, no cents here, my 10 cents worth. How about www.betterplace.com instead?





paulmo_on_tour said:


> Instead of making the car, they are starting with the recharging grid, and working back to making the car. They have Renualt/Nissan on board. And possible a "US carmaker"


If you want to sell an EV as a first car, then sure, you need to deal with long trips, but a lot of families have two cars and use the bigger one for long trips.

As for battery swapping, well, that battery better be able to protect itself from abuse, and you better get strong buy-in from the manufacturers. I would be concerned about the risk of selling only a few thousand compatible cars before the market decides not to do swapping.


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## paulmo_on_tour (Aug 31, 2008)

Carrot,

I agree completely. I think that what will/would do more harm then anything is finding "the" standard. This will be an interesting battle of who wins. Hopefully ANSI will be smart enough to set a worldwide set of standards quickly. Or I can us all driving the Microsoft version of a car as apposed to the Mac version. For the record, I use all, Windows/Mac/Linux. 

Look at the Beta/VHS formats. Beta was clearly the better format. But VHS won just by getting more support from makers. Same with the HD vs. Blu-Ray. 

It'll be interesting to see what "standard" emerges as the winner in what could be one of the more important standard war to date. If the 3rd or 4th best comes out as the winner, no one really wins. Not saying that Better Place has "the answer" but I do like the thought that's being put into the design and the longer vision of starting with the infrastructure. 

And to be fair, getting big business on board might actually ruffle a lot of DIY and grass roots EV users. Fair enough. But then you'll have to again look at what would be the end result. Everyone building their own EV car, such as I would quite enjoy doing, but that's not for everyone. Or being able to go to the local dealer and buying the latest model. 

I had a chat with a Mitsi rep a few months ago about their car the "iCar". Seems that with in a year, you'll be able to buy the Full Electric version in NZ. 

Exciting times indeed.

Now, I still have a car to retrofit till then.

Paul Summers


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## carrott (Aug 19, 2008)

paulmo_on_tour said:


> It'll be interesting to see what "standard" emerges as the winner in what could be one of the more important standard war to date. If the 3rd or 4th best comes out as the winner, no one really wins.


Look at what happened in California. There were big and small magnechargers, avcons and standard domestic plugs of various sizes. Worse, at least the magnechargers were patented. See http://www.nabble.com/Re:-GM-partne...advance-plug-in-hybrids-p18615468ef25542.html

Now Tesla have their own standard.



paulmo_on_tour said:


> I had a chat with a Mitsi rep a few months ago about their car the "iCar". Seems that with in a year, you'll be able to buy the Full Electric version in NZ.


Here's hoping.


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## Hemon Dey (Jul 31, 2008)

Shai Agassi's vision is a noble one and he is going about it the right way. I'm envious (blown away) that he was able to secure 200mil for his project, surely that buys at least the attention of important enough people to bring on even more investors.

His idea of selling electricity to subsidise the car sounds like a great one, I wonder if that is what Meridian is thinking of doing as well ... very hush hush with their electric car deployment project. 

I would personally like to see the existing worlds car fleet modified, not replaced, to be electrically driven. You can't define recycling in a more poignant way  I think the best conversion I've seen to date (due to its relative simplicity) is the Mini QED done by PML, the guys who designed the in-wheel hub motor for cars. Each wheel is capable of up to 150kw (max that they make), and come with a built in controller that understands what the other wheels are doing, implementing a network that does the traction control system - but alas these guys aren't in production yet and aren't selling to anybody other than those with deep pockets to fund their production facility. Volvo and the Lightning electric car may be the first to utilise these motors ... 

Exciting times indeed. 

Regards,
Hemon


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## EnergyOfOne (Jul 23, 2008)

> Do you think this could work for NZ?
> http://www.sahkoautot.fi/eng
> 
> The site doesn't yet have a lot of information but the idea of a group of us getting together to do the ordering in bulk seems to make a lot of sense to me. If this means we can get the most of the bit ordered in sufficient quantity as to attract a commercial discount, it might be worth considering?
> ...


Yes! 
But - think bigger

Why not a global development group that way you would get multiple benefits. 

Facebook is valued at 20 billion dollars and all it does is provide a limited web page. Hey Google is valued at 80 billion dollars and all it does is provide a free search engine.

When it comes to the internet it is all about numbers - sign up 20 million developers world wide and I guarantee you will get your parts cheap. 

Look at AOL it brought out part of Warner brothers and all they provide is a minimal service to its customers. 

Advertising+numbers of members and you got revenue to literally burn.

Hey! I am serious - like anything time, time, effort, effort that's all it takes. I have ideas a plenty on this subject but will not bore you to tears. 

It would be easy to do, the problem is to do it you would have to rewrite all the old 'business models' 

This would be the beginning of the 'personal development age' where you would become funded and totally absorbed into things that you are passionate about. 

No longer would you have to go to work for someone Else's cause, not of your own choosing, rather you would be creating something of mutual benefit. 

'The Power to the people it is only a matter of time'

I don't look at what can't be done I always look at what can be done and this CAN BE DONE!! I bet you anything it will be a group of New Zealander's who will do it - but hay I am a biost NZ'er.

I am more than happy to share my ideas to help get the ball rolling on this one. 

Yes it would take a special group of people to get it up and running.

That's my 5 billion dollars worth


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## Hemon Dey (Jul 31, 2008)

EnergyOfOne,

What is your plan of attack? How would you get your 20 million developers? Also, too many cooks spoil the soup ... no matter how community based these projects are, they will always have to be a governing system which guides the masses, things take too long otherwise because everybody wants to lead. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts.

Regards,
Hemon


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## paulmo_on_tour (Aug 31, 2008)

Right, 

Then we should have a BBQ to talk about this. I'm interested at least in the aspect of investing in Green Tech. Any ideas?

Paul


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