# Brushed PM vs Series-wound and ALLTRAX?



## Colonel Monk (Jun 15, 2010)

Maybe I jumped the gun - just found this wiring diagram for using the AXE series controllers with PM motor:

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/downloads-Alltrax/axe-pm-wiring-diagram.pdf

So I guess they are compatible.

Wouldn't mind some thoughts on one versus the other though.

Regards,

CM


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Why 24V? might be better to jump up to 48V


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## Colonel Monk (Jun 15, 2010)

frodus said:


> Why 24V? might be better to jump up to 48V


Howdy:

A few reasons: (apoligies for the drift that will result from answers)

Firstly, the rickshaw will be used as an "art vehicle" in a location where the max speed I can travel is only 5-7 mph, 10 max. I'll be pulling a wagon with batteries and people on it, slowly.

Secondly, I have already an expensive charger/inverter for my RV that I'm going to use for this EV. It's a 4 stage programmable charger that can do up to 100 amps. So recharge time will be short. It's a 12V charger....

Thirdly, the vehicle will have all sorts of lights on it and a cranking stereo. For these I also require 12V.

So, the reason I picked this controller is so that I have the option of wiring and sticking with 12V or 24V.

Whether or not I do 12V or 24V depends on whether or not I can get the performance (or lack thereof) that I'm looking for. I might be able to do 24V, using a reverse contactor to switch my pack wiring from 24V to 12V for charging. A gentleman in another forum showed me a curtis unit that can do just that. So it is an option I'm considering.

If I do run 24V then I'll need a step-down transformer to run the stereo and lights and that is an additional cost. So I'm not planning to do that unless the 12V wiring doesn't cut it.

The perfomance I actually care about is range. I'd like to be able to do 10-15 miles between charges, and with 675Ah of batteries and a low-ish current draw I hope to be able to do this. Just found the wiki yesterday but haven't finished working the numbers yet.

A final reason that I'd like to stay with 12V is batteries: I need a new set for my RV and would like to go with Trojan T105 6V batteries. I can fit 6 of them in my RVs battery bank. There's not really a configuration of the 6 batteries that can yield 24 Volts and 12V via a switching relay - so if I'm able to just leave everything 12V then I don't need to hassle with switching to 12v from 24 for charging.

Hope that explains it...

CM


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

> Firstly, the rickshaw will be used as an "art vehicle" in a location where the max speed I can travel is only 5-7 mph, 10 max. I'll be pulling a wagon with batteries and people on it, slowly.


maybe a golf cart motor would be better, they're 24/36V
would this work? Its cheap and surplus.... got my old motor from there:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=10-1899-B&catname=electric




> Secondly, I have already an expensive charger/inverter for my RV that I'm going to use for this EV. It's a 4 stage programmable charger that can do up to 100 amps. So recharge time will be short. It's a 12V charger....


make sure the batteries could charge at 100A. Also, if you're doing 24V, are you just going to charge one battery, switch, then charge the other?




> So, the reason I picked this controller is so that I have the option of wiring and sticking with 12V or 24V.


 Good answer, just making sure there was a logical reason.



> Whether or not I do 12V or 24V depends on whether or not I can get the performance (or lack thereof) that I'm looking for. I might be able to do 24V, using a reverse contactor to switch my pack wiring from 24V to 12V for charging. A gentleman in another forum showed me a curtis unit that can do just that. So it is an option I'm considering.


 Thats a great idea. In normal operation, it takes them out of parallel, puts them in series and drives the controller. In charging mode, it puts them in parallel to charge.... disregard my question above.... sounds like you have a good handle on what you need.



> If I do run 24V then I'll need a step-down transformer to run the stereo and lights and that is an additional cost. So I'm not planning to do that unless the 12V wiring doesn't cut it.


not a transformer, a DC-DC convterer. Transformers only work with AC. 24-12V converters aren't that spendy, but it depends on how many amps you're drawing. You might be ok tapping off of one of the 12V batteries.


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## Colonel Monk (Jun 15, 2010)

hOWDY Frodus

I see your point about the golf car motor - it is certainly cheaper. It's worth a look, but it does look like the golf cars have some special shaft interface that seems like it could be a hassle to work with.

Hmmm. One of the reasons that I gravitated towards the etek style motors is that they have a reputation of being pretty versatile and I was thinking that I might use it also in another project ....

Umm, you're right - it's a converter not a transformer. I didn't find those until I saw the ad on this site. Definitely simplifies some things.

Yeah I think the 12V/24V switch idea is a good one. Unfortunately, if I do the 6-6v batteries I would need two relays to move from 12V to 24V. Still doable though.

What's everyone's feeling on 12v - will it really give me what I'm after (controllable speeds and range) or am I better off just doing 24V?

My logic says that because 24V has more speed potential, trying to drive at a consistently low speed will be more difficult since my throttle controls range is 0-24v instead of 0-12v. So where a crack of the throttle at 24V could be 5mph would be half throttle with 12v.

I've never done anything with an EV or the components so I just don't know how they behave.

Thanks,

CM


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## Colonel Monk (Jun 15, 2010)

Oh, and right. Charge current at no more than 25% of the Ah capacity of the bank correct? 

I'm gonna have 450 to 650 Ah on this mother. I need the range and my RV needs the capacity as well.

cm


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## OBeer-WAN-Kenobi (May 28, 2010)

I'm new at this as well but I wouldn't worry about the stereo... I mean, don't use that to decide what voltage to run. Use your other parameters. The stereo can be tapped off of one 12V (or two 6V) batteries so no need for a converter. Depending on the size of the stereo and if you have amplifiers you may have a hard time getting a converter big enough anyway. For example, I have one amplifier that can draw up to 90a peak!

You were planning on running multiple batteries in parallel right? That should give a decent low speed run time, and; more importatly  the stereo will go longer as well.


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## Colonel Monk (Jun 15, 2010)

OBeer-WAN-Kenobi said:


> I'm new at this as well but I wouldn't worry about the stereo... I mean, don't use that to decide what voltage to run. Use your other parameters. The stereo can be tapped off of one 12V (or two 6V) batteries so no need for a converter. Depending on the size of the stereo and if you have amplifiers you may have a hard time getting a converter big enough anyway. For example, I have one amplifier that can draw up to 90a peak!
> 
> You were planning on running multiple batteries in parallel right? That should give a decent low speed run time, and; more importatly  the stereo will go longer as well.


Don't worry O-beer-one

I'm not letting my light/stereo needs dictate my pack voltage.

Just sayin' that all things equal (kWh of battery pack) and the slow speed of my vehicle, that if the 12V setup is equal in low speed performance to 24V, then there's no reason really for me to go to the trouble of converters and high-current switches.

I think that pulling a load for stereo/lighting from a single batt in the pack is not a good idea - it could cause the batteries to become un-equalized and doesn't that affect life/efficiency of the pack?


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## OBeer-WAN-Kenobi (May 28, 2010)

Colonel Monk said:


> Don't worry O-beer-one
> 
> I'm not letting my light/stereo needs dictate my pack voltage.
> 
> ...


I think 12v would probably be fine for your needs but I'd try to talk you into 2 6v golf cart batteries for the higher amp hour rating. That way you could tool around reall slow for quite a while.

Generally I'd agree that running an unbalanced pack is bad news but when its only a small stereo and 2 batteries make a pack I think I wouldn't worry about it too much. Heck, you could even swap the position of the two batteries every once in a while. JMO


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