# Heater research



## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

im glad to see others are looking at heater options. somehow retaining the original liquid design just seems better.


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

what about the 1500 watt of these:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/ZEROSTART-...P_2000837_N_111+200728735+600001645_10101.jcw


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## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

If you have to go with a liquid type system, Go with a heating element that can run off your pack voltage. It will be more efficiant and prevent you from needing a giant DC/DC... I just dont see why people keep looking for other types of heat when the cheap ceramic works so well???


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Twilly said:


> If you have to go with a liquid type system, Go with a heating element that can run off your pack voltage. It will be more efficiant and prevent you from needing a giant DC/DC... I just dont see why people keep looking for other types of heat when the cheap ceramic works so well???


I agree that a pack voltage heating element would be better. Electric hot water heater elements can be had at 120 and 220 volts. As for why not using the ceramic hot air type, many heater cores are a nightmare to get at, and a liquid system allows you to preheat a volume of liquid from house current which can give you enough thermal mass that you don't even need pack voltage for shorter trips, and can use less of it for longer ones.
Here is another thread on the same subject, I think we should have a special heater forum, this topic will come up again and again 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/heater-17144.html


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

one great thing about this website is there is not a lot of bickering and a great exchange of ideas. I read through the aussie forums last night and was surprised at a few of the exchanges.

How about lets make it a given that the ceramic system works. 

But a liquid conversion would allow one not to tear out the dash (mine is 75% apart right now and each part I take off I regret it even more). and you could also eventually liquid cool the controller if need be.

similar to the thermaltake mod, lets see if we can figure out a good ceramic system alternative. the metric mind system is WAYYYYYY too expensive.


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

I already removed my dash, so a heater core replacement is what I want. If ceramic works well, then that's fine. I just thought I heard complaints that it was inadequate so I was looking for other options. 

What ceramic heater do you guys recommend? How is it wired in (12v or 144v)? Where did you get it and how much? 

Thanks!


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

chamilun said:


> what about the 1500 watt of these:
> 
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/ZEROSTART-...P_2000837_N_111+200728735+600001645_10101.jcw


I wonder how quickly that would heat up the small amount of liquid required since the motor is gone. Seems like it would be damn fast and give the ability for preheating while charging. The preheating seems like you could really save some energy compared to running the ceramic elements.

Hmm, would be a fun experiment and doesn't cost much.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

dpringle said:


> I already removed my dash, so a heater core replacement is what I want. If ceramic works well, then that's fine. I just thought I heard complaints that it was inadequate so I was looking for other options.
> 
> What ceramic heater do you guys recommend? How is it wired in (12v or 144v)? Where did you get it and how much?
> 
> Thanks!


It would be wired at pack voltage, since it's a 120 volt unit. I'd say find the cheapest that fits in the heater core.


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

where do you suggest I look for a ceramic heater? Do I just take a standard one from Target and disassemble it?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That's exactly what some have done. Do a google search on "ev ceramic heater core" or similar and you should find lots of examples.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Check out Gav's site for an excellent instruction on doing this with a ceramic from a house heater. Shows you exactly what's involved.
LOL gav's whole site should be in the wiki 
Be aware tho that Aussie and NewZealand have 240V power. A 240V 1500W units drop to about 750W at 144V hence Gav want 2 elements in his next EV. US spec heaters that are designedto put out 1500W at 120V will actually run closer to 1800W a 144V


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## Twilly (Jan 22, 2008)

I wasn't trying to shoot down your idea, I just tend to look for the simplest way to fix a problem. Generally, the more parts in the system, the higher the failure rate. 

I agree that even the smallest 120V water heater element you'll find at the hardware store will be a bit excessive for the small amount of heat most will need. The smallest I have seen is 5000 watts. Most are 240V, which could also be used at 144vdc with roughly 2/3 the output. 

As for ceramic, here is a picture of my modded heater core... Credit goes to Kiwi, I copied off of him...

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/29

A small nuclear plant would produce heat AND electric... Hmmm...


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

OK, thanks guys... the ceramic approach was what I was aiming for. I saw Gav's video during my initial EV research stages, and couldn't remember where. Anyone have a wiring diagram on that?


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Twilly said:


> I agree that even the smallest 120V water heater element you'll find at the hardware store will be a bit excessive for the small amount of heat most will need. The smallest I have seen is 5000 watts. Most are 240V, which could also be used at 144vdc with roughly 2/3 the output.


I nearly fell off my chair when I read that
You see, I was holding in my hand and admiring one of these that I literally just got out the box that was just delivered fresh from knoxville. 1500W 120V. the element is only 4 3/4 inches long

Perfect for an EV. Less than $12!!


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## chamilun (Jun 17, 2008)

those immersion style rv heaters are used in conjunction with gas. there is not one available that uses electric only, which begs the question: as the rv heaters come in 6, 8, 10 gallon capacities, will the 1k or 1.5k watt heaters heat the water hot enough to warm the cabin? I believe 2 gallons is normally quoted for what an EV would use.

I cant wait until someone has a working assembly to test.


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## DVR (Apr 10, 2008)

Most kettles will boil 1.5-2 liters of water in a couple of minits with 1500W. we only need 70-80C. Also those $738 units that metricmind sell rand in power from 2000-4000W and are thermostatically controlled to 70C. So while it may be a tad low, I think there is a better than average chance this will work ok. At least it will have more power than a ceramic, cos like I said earlier, 1500W 240V element on 120V is only 540W


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I bought a 1500 watt solid state ceramic heater from kta-ev.com which comes with a schematic for wiring....


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## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I have 2 ceramic type elements, would I need one or should I build both into my heater core. I am just heating a pickup truck cab.
Has anyone run more than one elements?


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

dpringle said:


> OK, thanks guys... the ceramic approach was what I was aiming for. I saw Gav's video during my initial EV research stages, and couldn't remember where. Anyone have a wiring diagram on that?


Please feel free to copy me, I encourage it. Just don't copy any mistakes I make. 
Here's a picture of my wiring diagram: http://www.kiwiev.com/Tredia Wiring Layout 12-04-08.jpg
I won't paste it online here as it would stretch the screen horribly (it's a wide picture).
The video for the heater install is here: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=FEqOMmP78xY

If I were going to do it again, I'd use a 120v heater element next time. The 240v element is quite warm and takes off the chill, but not blazing enough to roast the car on a freezing winter morning. I recommend doing the same if you're in a country that only sells 240v heaters - buy a 120v one online.


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## spidermonkey (Sep 15, 2008)

how about peliteers i have a few here to play with =)
ok peliteer apply eletricity to it gets hot on one side cold on the otherso i am thinking 2 problems at once heat for the cabin (or reverse voltage in the summer for cold) and throw a water block on it to pump the cold coolant to the controller or where ever you need it

too bad they consume considerable juice


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## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

KiwiEV said:


> The video for the heater install is here: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=FEqOMmP78xY


That appears to be your cable install video. Maybe the wrong video?


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## dpringle (Jun 17, 2008)

Gav,

I've started working on mine.... bought a 120v 1500 watt heater for $19 at Home Depot. took the heater apart last night.... mine only had 4 screws until I was in the case... another maybe 12 after that....

I've cut a hole in the heater core and I've just got to tweak it to give me more room so that I have more space between the wires and the metal of the core. I was tired, so I quit last night. I will probably work on it tomorrow....

My heater had a nice little plenum that I will keep. It will isolate it from the core and hold it in position nicely. Plus, it gives me a nice solid place to adhere the sealant. I'm posting pics on my blog (though it may not be tonight).

BTW, Gav, you and your videos are the reason I went ahead with this project in the first place.


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