# Old Blue - 1971 VW Bug



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You'll want more than 96V, is there a particular reason for only using the rear storage shelf? What do you have planned for the front trunk space?

I'm not sure what you consider prep-work...vs conversion work?
Expect everything to take about 100 hours, give or take 50.

I like your DC-DC idea...if you're using lead for your AUX you don't even need a charge controller.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Great advice guys - you only leave me with 1 question -
1. I understood that the open source controller is a pretty good controller, especially for the price - I can put something like that together in 4-5 hours. I've looked at that thing, and it's pretty close to what I'd design.

Also, I'm trying to stay under a limit of ~10,000. I guess I could go with 100ah cells and get 120 for about the same price as the 130ah. That would mean more performance, but a little less range.

I was walking through my home depot, and they have 2/0 and 4/0 HPPT on their rack for $3-4, but it's only rated for 295A and 350A. Is there a better choice? If I have to, I could almost get 2 lengths of that for the same price as purchasing from a EV distributor.

As far as my trying to only use the rear storage, I thought it would make things simpler - I wouldn't have to run HV from the back to the front, and I think it will look much cleaner. I could probably fit the extra 8 batteries to make a 120V if I really had to, and I'll see what I come up with.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh yeah - I'm calling everything prep work till it is missing the gas engine.  I figure I can build the battery box and run HV wire, give the thing a bath (been sitting out in NM for quite a while) and steel-wool the wheels / whatever else needs it.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Everything is relative. You haven't mentioned your performance needs, but if they're modest the Open Revolt will do just fine for you.

Some people here have higher performance builds than others, and will insist that anything less is unacceptable/unviable. I have a 400A controller, and rarely use over 250. For a bug I think a 144V 500A system would be excellent, especially with lithium. Mine was great at just 120 x 400 when I had 600 lbs in batteries, and even better at 132V. Now I have more batteries and am more sluggish, but with lithium that won't be an issue for you.

To fit more batteries without running cables to the front, you can use the rear shelf and also put some in the engine bay. There's lots of space in there.

As for the prep work, you haven't started anything till you've got that engine out! Especially for cleaning, many people pull the engine and take it in for a good steam cleaning first thing. Before you pull it though, look into selling the old one. If you can line up a buyer while it's in and running you'll get lots more than if you stick it in a corner of the garage and try to unload it someday.

You'll probably want to plan some kind of insulation for your battery boxes, and maybe some heating or cooling depending on your location. Be sure to account for that in your planning.

For your 40 mile range, 144V x 100AH x 70% DOD (for battery life) = 40 miles at 250 wh/m, so I would consider that as a minimum, maybe go 130 AH if you can swing it.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm not too big into performance - my last 2 cars have been 4-bangers, sub 100hp.

The idea is that this car would be my daily driver, and I've got a couple possible routes to work, some sub-45mph, one on the interstate around 65mph. My daily commute is 27mi roundtrip.

I originally chose the 130Ah batteries, with reduced voltage to allow for a little bit of upgradeability. I was thinking if I do 96V now, I could add batteries once it's running and I sell my current car. We're a 1.25 car family, meaning I use mine every day, my wife uses hers 1-2x a week.

So not knowing too too much about lithium chemistry, is adding another 8-15 cells next year (possibly with a tax rebate money) sound viable? I'll make sure to run a couple extra cables from the planned battery box to the front of the car while I'm working.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

It's generally better to upgrade in parallel than in series because of how batteries wear. However, with an expected lifetime of 8-10+ years I don't think it should matter too much for lithium.

For your commute, you need at least 11.25 kWh, however you want to arrange it. You could do 38 100AH cells and run at 120V for a little less than your proposed 30 130Ah pack. That would give you a better car than what I've been running for the last 18 months, and leave room for an easy expansion to 144V next year.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

I just converted a 1970 bug, using the space behind the back seat for my batteries and going with a WarP9 as well. ... so I like to think that I can speak to this for you. (my build thread is around here somewhere) 

Battery box location:
I went with 48 100ah calb cells - they all fit behind the back seat. (2 layers of 24 each) I've retained full usability of the back seat (which was a design goal of mine).
HOWEVER -- the back seat of the bug is sooo small and has so little leg-room that it's still unusable. I'm not sure why I gave that such a high priority. I like the look (looks stock, basically) but it's not as usable as if I had done it differently.
To do over, I would gut that whole part and put 2 sets of batteries on each side of the transmission channel, my 'auxiliary' stuff (DCDC, aux batt, BMS, etc) down the middle on top of the bump... and then cover the whole thing with a piece of polycarb/lexan/acrylic... allowing me to use the entire back for storage (hockey bag, for instance) as well as bringing the center of gravity down (it's kind of high with 350# in that back storage area). The nice thing about the back storage area is that there is that 'lip' at the front of it where you can secure your battery box bottom from edge... much better than an few bolts would. Also, it would better help spread the weight between the front/rear instead of it all sitting on top of the rears (I have overload shocks for this).
Not sure where you are located, but look at the flexi-watt tape thread BEFORE building your box. I wish I had, as putting it in is going to require complete disassembly. 

Adapter plate:
I was also directed to not go with wildernessEV's stuff... after seeing photos (I forget where) I am glad I didn't. It's cheap-looking and looks like it'd fall apart. I went with CanEV and have been very happy. It'll never break.

Cable:
Take a look at trystar. Flexible, double-insulated (so you can see wear before it's a problem)... printable for free... really good stuff. I used a total of about 14 feet. I also got 6ga stuff for my heaters, charger, etc...

Power:
my ~150v run through a soliton Jr is WAY more power than I need. Sure, its' fun the first few times to hit the throttle and be like "Woah, that's fun!" but after a while it's just to get you from point-a-to-point-b. Some people on this board believe that every car needs to be a speed demon just to be 'streetable'.... I disagree. Shoot - my first car (mid 90's) had a TOP speed of 65mph. It never once got me in trouble.
To do over I might look at 120V because that makes fuses and other items cheaper (but also makes my wiring more expensive and my heat losses worse...so who knows). Pick what works based on the size of the cells... as long as you are at or over 120, you'll be just fine. Remember the original engine was like 50hp and that worked just fine - a 600amp controller pushing to a warp9 (170v max) will produce over 100.
Also, remember that your power is also limited by your pack and your acceptable 'c' rating. An 800amp controller isn't going to do you a lot of good (beyond hurting your cells) if your max 'safe' discharge is 400-600amps.
I do agree that building for a max of 55mph is silly though. Make sure you can roll on the freeway safely.

Range:
Your thought of 40 miles of range on 96v 130ah is overly optimistic. Use 300 wh/mile. I haven't done a full range test on mine since finishing it in the fall due to prepping for our first baby and it being winter and all that... but I've seen quite a few bugs and 300 seems to be the right number if it's going to be including freeway driving. If you want 40 miles you really need to look at a 15-20kwh pack instead of 12.
Utilizing the space where the back seat seat is (like I mentioned above) will allow you to put in some more cells without any real negatives.

Adding cells:
Yeah, you can add cells. If your controller can handle that added voltage I don't think that's a bad option, actually, assuming you design for the potential addition initially. Just make sure you don't stress the initial batteries much before doing the addition so they still all 'match' more or less. Personally, I'd just wait an extra month or two to start and get the right batteries rather than risk imbalance...

Build time:
It's going to take longer than you think. There will be many days where you'll spend 5 hours on the car and have no idea what you accomplished. For me the biggest time-sink was running back and forth to the store (or ordering online) to get various iddy-bits (terminal connections, lugs, fuses, etc). I'm in the same situation as you -- I leave every day, my wife only leaves 1-2 times a week. I thought 1 car (prius) would be enough to get us until I finished the EV. Well, it got to be a sore spot that I always had the car ... and any time I was home I was working on that the EV. So prep for that.


Another thing I didn't plan for was the fact the car is NOT silent. a 40+ year old car simply isn't silent anymore... the tranny makes noise, things rattle, etc. Sure, its quieter than when it had a gas engine, but it's considerably louder than my Prius.
Also - label all the wires you pull off the engine and other things... it'll make it much easier 4 months down the road when you need to figure out which wire is the reverse.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

The photography by the rebirth people is certainly better. I'll give you that.

The rebirth one _seems _better, but if the CanEV one does the job and will never break... why go further.

Both are great and do the job... one is $100 cheaper. :-/ I do like that the rebirth one is aluminum (lighter) and the additional bearing (it seems)... hrm, for a hundred, maybe worth it.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

gottdi said:


> There is no taper lock or any thing to get out of balance or out of whack.


For what it's worth, the CanEV one also does not have a taper lock.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Why would an adapter plate have a taper lock? 

Oh, and my wilderness adapter plate looks and works just fine.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm getting convinced with my battery pack size. So the consensus is wait to buy the batteries till last, huh? I guess I'm a little overoptimistic. For now, I'll plan on putting 30 cells behind the rear seat, and plan for 8 more somewhere else. (maybe 2 sets, one under each side of the rear seat.) I've got a new small 12V lead acid that will fit under there too.

I want to keep the rear seat available for a carseat - if I need storage, I'll just fold it down and deal with whatever space I've got. From my measurements, I can fit 30 130Ah CALBs behind the rear seat with them all facing up. That's still under 300lbs. Maybe I can get away with just upgrading the rear shocks with my build - the front ones are pretty good.

I'll change my plans to include a nicer adapter - although I'll decide later which one I want.

I've just got a guy interested in the old engine. I wonder if I priced it too low.

The big question for me is how much time I can give / how long is this going to take me. If I start buying parts, I'll want to finish it and tag it this year for CO and Federal tax rebates. Hmm...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You shouldn't really need to upgrade shocks for a modest amount of lithium in the back, you're removing quite a bit.

There are no more Fed tax rebates


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Yeah - I just read that on your other posts Ziggy. Too bad the federal govt doesn't want me to drive electric. I'll just have to do it anyway just to spite them.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

If they didn't want you to they'd do something to stop you. They're just not helping you...they need all that to give to the poor Karma/Tesla buyers.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

otedawg said:


> For now, I'll plan on putting 30 cells behind the rear seat


You can fit 48 100ah calb cells back there (ie: 15kwh pack). You could potentially get 52 but things would be REALLY tight on the sides to the point it'd be a barrier to working on it.

That's what I did, then the DCDC, aux battery, and some random stuff (wireless network router, a couple fuses, etc) under the back seat. If keeping the back seat is a priority... I would whole-heartedly recommend doing that. If you need a fully-functioning back seat then the next place for 'cell storage' is in the front boot. :-( you could potentially put that stuff under the front seats and drop a few more cells under the back seat.... but there isn't an awesome/safe way to get 2/0 cable from the back storage area to under the seat.



> I've just got a guy interested in the old engine. I wonder if I priced it too low.


I sold mine for $750 last fall... was told by the guy who I bought it from that it was only worth a few hundred.



> The big question for me is how much time I can give / how long is this going to take me. If I start buying parts, I'll want to finish it and tag it this year for CO and Federal tax rebates. Hmm...


If you can simply hammer it out (ie: your day job is only 40 hours a week) you could really probably get it done a month. The problem is you end up waiting on stuff you didn't think about until you started putting it all together. For instance, a class-T fuse doesn't fit in a class-T fuse block after 160V... so there is another week while you wait for the next one. A charger arrives DOA... another month waiting for the new one. You need a fuse-holder for your DCDC/aux stuff... your fuel-gage-driver takes 5 months to arrive... etc etc...
If you had ALL your stuff, a normal human could probably pop the entire build off in a week or two. But a normal human can't plan well enough on their first build to be at that point... imho.

I ordered everything I _thought_ I would need ahead of time... and I'm happy I did, even though the build had stuff sitting around for months.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Lowcrawler,
I'll have to take a look at your pictures when I get home. Do you have pictures of your battery bank design? No sense reinventing the wheel.

I'm thinking of a cage made out of angle brackets (like others I've seen), with an aluminum back/sides/tray, and back that with some high-density foam board from home depot. I'm in Albuquerque, so I don't have to worry too much about driving under 30F, but I will need a fan or something for battery cooling - 130F is normal for a non-ventilated car in the summer.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Lowcrawler,
It doesn't matter how I run the numbers, I'm still getting that I can only fit a max of 40 CALB 100AH cells. I'll try measuring again, but I'm still wondering how you did it. (Without stacking cells) Do you have pictures of your battery bank that you could post?

Thanks,
Josh


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Oh, sorry... my photos are on a different computer. I'll see if I can get a video up tonight...

I stacked them. The entire box is 12 cells wide, 2 cells tall, 2 cells deep. a 3/4"x3/4" piece of vinyl 'wood' sits on top of the lower set of cells and the upper set of cells sits on that. it fits with about 1/2" clearance on the top/back before the rear window glass. There is about 4-5" of space on the sides and the back seat back actually rests on the box when 'up'.

Obviously this forced the use of the centralized BMS, and if I ever need to mess with the lower set of cells I need to remove whatever is on top first... but I hope to not need to mess with them often.


You could simply go with your 40 back there and then run a cable up to the front boot. Getting a cable from the back to the front of the car is actually really pretty easy... just use the heater channels. The hardest part is where the channel takes a 90 degree turn at the front fender. Only took me about 2 minutes to run my first 6ga wire through there...


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Getting 2/0 to make that corner was a real pain...

Why not just use the engine bay for the extra cells? There's a ton of space back there. The only reason I'm not using it is because I'm still on lead, and didn't want the acid cloud right by the motor/electronics. With lithium there's no reason not to stuff that back.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Why not just use the engine bay for the extra cells?


Not a bad idea if you only need a few extra. You could put them 'hanging down' from the left and right of the motor and still have plenty of room for the controller, charger, tps, and other items back there... That engine bay is deceptively large.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I was thinking more of a bridge between the flats on each side, with a hump over the motor.

Here's an example of the space back there. If this guy can get 4 big floodies back there (with room for 2 more) you could stuff 40-50 100 AH cells back there along with your controller and junk.


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## palmer_md (Jul 22, 2011)

gottdi said:


> Yes I am aware but you did understand what I was talking about.


It might help your argument if you priced out a coupler. You quoted an adapter for $850 and an adapter with an integrated coupler for $950.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm thinking I'll do 32 cells behind the backseat (Practically covering the area back there with about 1.5" on each side leftover) and 3 sets of 4 cells, one below the rear seat and two in the engine compartment. I'm trying to keep all the battery cables as short as possible.

If I could swing it, would the Netgain 1500 motor controller be worth it? I'm thinking that it's a no brainer, but I'd like some confirmation.

This bug is going to need a bit more work than I thought on the interior / exterior. Mechanically, it's perfect, with a few seals cracking, but nothing major. It's probably going to be around 1k for new insides, and 1k for outside work (seals, paint, etc.), but that can wait for now. It's in passable condition, and I'll do extra work with (CO) rebate money. I still think this bug was the best deal I could've come up with.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm going with 144V 100AH CALB cells. I can order those tomorrow, and have them here in a week or so (just in time for a week-long business trip  )

That should be:
~48mi 100% dod
~39mi 80% dod
~34mi 70% dod

With my commute of 26mi, I'll be running the cells down to 60%, so I might even be able to drive to work on the interstate (65MPH).

Translation: more than enough for what I planned.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Pete,
What does that mean exactly?
Are we talking more parts to get in the way type problems or you'll have to make your own adapter plate etc. or the motors themselves have problems. The motor comes with a splined to smooth adapter - does that take all my problems away?

I'll search the forum and read up on it, but if I had an idea of what I'm getting myself into before I go look at the motor this evening, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Otedawg


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm leaning toward a canEV adapter... or possibly the one you recommended (EDIT: Rebirth) . Obviously if one would work better with the motor I'm looking at, it would be really nice. Rick's got the warp controller and he's made me a pretty good deal for taking it all. (We're talking me getting everything EV related from his car for a good price.) I'm kinda thinking this is an offer I can't really refuse, if it's doable.

If I'm going to need a custom adapter, I'll have to factor that into my costs.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. 
I just got off the phone with CANEV, and I'm going to go with them for the adapter. They quoted me (offhand, no binding) ~950 for an adapter with the splined adapter machine pressed into the coupler. So just ~100 more than what I planned. I think that'll fit in my budget.

I didn't call rebirth - I highly doubt they'd do something like this for free, and I'm still trying to save while getting quality parts.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Give Bryan Belk at Belktronix a call about the motor too... I don't want to give away any pricing info, but he hooked me up with a great deal (and I got my DCDC from him as well)


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I just called them, and they recommended.... CANEV. They said I should probably go with them, and they'd be the people with the best shop for one-offs.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

So I've got my motor now. It turned out to be a TransWarp9 with only the rear shaft. I'm hoping this'll fit in the bug just fine, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to trim some metal. No big deal on my part with that. The best part about the whole thing is that I got the Netgain controller with it.

So now I've got:
Motor: TransWarp9 without the Trans part
Controller: Netgain 200VDC 1200A
- Cooling kit
- HEPA Throttle
- Cables for the controller
Contactor: Tyco EV200
Premade 4/0 controller > motor wire

On order:
Battery Charger: Elcon 2kW 144V charger (Having it shipped from NC next monday)
Premade Battery Cables (picking up next week)

Still need:
400A Fuse (should I go bigger? If I've got the possibility of pulling 800A from the cells, and the controller does 1200A, this car could be a monster during a test, right?)
Batteries & Busbars
DC-DC converter / solar cell
And my biggest cost: 44 100AH CALB batteries (all I can fit in the areas I want to fit them.) (This will probably be ordered as soon as I hear about turn-around time on the custom adapter plate)

Here's hoping for a buyer for my engine this week. (And that the buyer will pull it  )


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I've got a question - probably a dumb one. Do I need an electric vaccum pump? I'm pretty sure I do, but that's something I didn't include in my budget, and I don't remember seeing it on other bug builds (i.e. Corbin's plug bug).


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

VW Beetles (the real air-cooled ones) never had power brakes or vacuum operated heater controls. You will have no need for a vacuum pump on a Bug conversion.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Whew - I was pretty sure about that, but I just saw a picture of a late 60s bug with brake lines and what looked like a pump - it must've been aftermarket. I think it's getting late, and I've been thinking too long today. I'll wait till tomorrow to have any more revelations.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

It's never too late for plotting. The world won't take over itself.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Just picked up the material for my battery box. I'm just using heavy duty plywood for the one behind the seat. I'm planning on painting it with primer and rust-oleum, and having a drop-in lid for it.

Should be pretty easy.

I also got what looks like great candidates for rear boxes - mailboxes. I'm going to cut the end off, and have 2 enclosed mailboxes under the hood with the controller, motor, and cooling. I'll be putting 30 batteries behind the rear seat in the box, 5 in each mailbox, and the last 4 under the rear seat across from my lead battery.

I'm planning on using a hole saw to cut the hole for the cabling in the battery box, and run some 2" abs to the rear of the car. I may even cool the box with 2 computer case fans blowing through separate pvc.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

So - I built the battery box, and it just barely fits. It looks like I may have to move the rear seat locking mechanism about 1" in order to have this perfect. No big deal.

I painted the box with rustoleum silver paint, and started in on the dash of the car. The dash is a bear to take off - I still haven't completely figured it out. It looks like I'll have to get under the hood and loosen some bolts - maybe this can wait a bit. I pulled the speedometer out (easy btw) and cleaned it / turned it back to all 0s. (actually, I went a tad too far - it reads all 9s, but my first drive should take care of that.) To turn it back, I disassembled it, and used a RC car motor with gear to spin - it wasn't easy and it took me about two hours (why did I buy a car with a speedo reading 55000 is beyond me  ).

I shipped off my splined adapter to CANEV, and I'm waiting on hearing from them to decide when to actually purchase the batteries. I've got plenty to do till then - I'm finishing up 2 master's courses in the next 2 weeks, and a Business trip after that. Hopefully I'll have good news after I get back from my trip. Any spare time between now and then will be used to pull the old engine and clean the other 2 seats (Windex and a plastic brush work great.)

One other thing I found is that the fuel gauge is resistive - YAY! That means I can use a uC to tell the gauge my current charge state.

I'm off to do research and write a couple papers.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

otedawg said:


> I pulled the speedometer out (easy btw) and cleaned it / turned it back to all 0s. (actually, I went a tad too far - it reads all 9s, but my first drive should take care of that.)


Too far, or not quite far enough? Doesn't it roll over at 100K?

How long did it take to get it out, and how involved is it? Mine's busted and I want to fix and set it, but don't want it to take me off the road.

Do some before and after pics of your seats. I'm curious to the condition and if mine might like to be cleaned.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I can take before and after pics when I get home tonight.

The speedometer is really simple. There are 6-8 wires out the back that you'll want to replace correctly (all the lights pull right out). 

From under the hood, you might have to remove the air flow box (2 bolts).
I unscrewed the speedo cable cap, labeled & removed all the wires, and pulled the speedo out (2 screws, I think). 

Once it was out, you've got to take a box (relay?) off the back (1 screw), and you can pull out the fuel gauge (2 screws). You have to pop off the lens, and remove 4 more screws till it's broken down as far as you can. (Don't remove the screws from the face of the speedo.) I cleaned the inside really well with windex and paper towels, and then setup a little jig to hold a RC car motor to the gear that turns the odometer. It took forever to get that right, but now it looks perfect.

Ziggy,
Have you replaced your dash or not? I'll want to pull the foam dash off and replace it with one from jbugs, but I haven't figured that out yet. Shouldn't be too difficult. Removing the speaker grills was interesting till I found that they were attached under the hood.

EDIT: I was turning it up (shorter distance), and I got it to 130mi before I realized, and had to turn it back and I went 1/10 mi too far.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh yeah - Ziggy, if you've still got those Lead batteries under your hood, it might be a bit more difficult to access the back of the speedo. - I sat in the spare tire hole to do mine.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I tried to remove the dash to do my gauges but I think it's glued on or something. I tore it in one place, and fixed it with a drywall screw later 

I don't think a destructive removel would be that hard.

My uppermost battery under the hood is just the ACC batt now, so if it's in the way that's a 10 second removal. Maybe I'll have time to get into it this weekend.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'd say it would take me about an hour to remove it, clean and replace it since I've done it once. Turning the odometer takes forever though.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

otedawg said:


> I'd say it would take me about an hour to remove it, clean and replace it since I've done it once. Turning the odometer takes forever though.


You can just spin the odo by hand..you have to remove some of the things that hold it in place. There's tutorials on the net on how to do it. I spun mine by hand to 0.

corbin


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Yeah, but spinning it by hand does take forever.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

otedawg said:


> Yeah, but spinning it by hand does take forever.


No it doesn't...it takes maybe 5 minutes! You spin each number, individually, to where you want it. It was really easy to do!

corbin


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Well I guess I did it the hard way then. I'll keep that in mind for next time. I was just scared I'd break it if I took it apart too much.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Ziggy,
I snapped a quick picture of my seats this morning. I've almost finished one, and the other hasn't been started on.

The grime came right off the one on the right.

I'm trying to plan out my entire restoration of the bug, and trying to figure out what to do while CANEV works on my adapter. I'm thinking that it's going to look something like this:

I'll paint with a sprayer and some rustoleum auto paint (they've got the color I want - $20 for a can of primer, $40 for 2 cans of blaze orange paint, $20 for a can of clear coat) I'm attached to the orange color - right now I drive an orange saturn vue. 

After the long process of bondo / sanding / removing seals / taping (I truthfully love taping  ), I'll paint the car and wheels (rusty rusty rusty - I'm thinking 2 cans metallic rustoleum) in my garage. 

I'm planning on ordering all new rubber and interior kits from jbugs (unless anyone found a better location), and after it's painted, I'll start work on the conversion before restoring the interior. I really think that I'll want the outside done before starting the "conversion" work, and before pulling it out of my garage (the windows leak like crazy.)

With any luck, I'll have the car painted by the end of May, and have all my parts sitting in my garage by then too... I'm going to shoot for a test drive by Memorial day, although I'm pretty sure it won't be moving till Independence day.

As soon as this car is done, I'm going to say goodbye to my trusty Saturn. (Unless my wife learns to drive a manual, that is.)


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Sounds like a plan. You might want to throw some soundproofing/insulation in there after you have everything out. What motor were you going with? Sometimes the apron is in the way during the motor install, so it may involve bending, dropping the tranny, or making a hinge.

Mine needs some work someday, but functionality always comes before looks, and money is usually tight. How big are those paint cans?


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

They are quart cans... I'll probably need 2 cans and a tiny bit more... of course. I haven't had good luck removing the old soundproofing boards, so they're staying in. Everything else (except the backseat and the dash) has been removed. For the life of me, I can't pull the steering wheel off - I think it's rusted on really well. I'll have to get some bolt remover.

I'm going with a transWarp9 rear shaft without the trans part. It's about the same length as a Warp9 (possibly 1/2" longer), so I'll have to cut / bend / hinge it. I don't think I'll have a problem with that. If I sell the motor sooner, then I'll measure and cut before I paint.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Have you seen my website?
corbinstreehouse.com -- click on the bug
corbin


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I've seen your site - It was one of the locations I pulled some inspiration from. I've read all your posts on there.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

otedawg said:


> I've seen your site - It was one of the locations I pulled some inspiration from. I've read all your posts on there.


cool -- so the 9" Warp 9 motor will barely fit; if I did it again, I would make the rear apron come off so i could drop it in and out. As-is, I have to remove it as a whole with the tranny, which is a pain. Or! if you get the transwarp 9, I believe it is not quite as long, and will fit better! So, I think that is a good option, where you may not have to cut anything
corbin


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'll go out and measure my motor right now, but I'm pretty sure that the transwarp is the same as the warp but heavier and with thicker faceplates, so it's actually a bit longer. The spec says that the warp9 is 17.9" total, with the shaft. Mine is 18", give or take a little bit. 

After looking at it again, I'm back to not being sure if it's a Warp9 or a transwarp9... I'll post pictures of it in a few to get some feedback on what ya'll think it is.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I've got to figure out what type of motor this is before I order my adapter...


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

otedawg said:


> I've got to figure out what type of motor this is before I order my adapter...


The adapter plate should be the same for either 9" motor; my understanding is that the mounting holes are all the same. The shaft is different from my Warp 9 -- I have a key slot shaft, where as yours is a spline. You'll need a coupler that considers this. The spline might indicate it is a transwarp. How long is the motor?

corbin


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

The motor is 15.9" long, exactly the spec for a Warp.

What I'm getting from Netgain isn't very encouraging, however...



> #1. This is a very old motor (external hex-head field bolts, 3/8" terminal studs, no thermistor, old-style snap switch, etc.)
> #2. It is *NOT *a TransWarP 9 (or a WarP 9)
> #3. That does not appear to be an original armature shaft, or one we ever produced...
> 
> ...


 I don't even know the voltage of this motor. I'm thinking I got ripped off...


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm looking into alternate motors. I just don't want to break the bank. I may have to get an ADC 4001A to finish this project and upgrade it down the road (it's hard to come up with an extra 1k).


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

corbin said:


> No it doesn't...it takes maybe 5 minutes! You spin each number, individually, to where you want it. It was really easy to do!
> 
> corbin


Corbin, how do you spin them individually?

I got mine out, took seconds to remove screws and 5 min to label stuff. I was shocked to find 6 light bulbs in there...I've only ever seen 1 on.

I stuck a retractable pen gear on a drill and spun it up and over to get the first few digits to my current e-mile guesstimate, but I don't want to do the 5K one that way.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

Well, just to keep ya'll informed, there is a high possibility that this project will be shelved. I don't think that I'll be able to convert Old Blue for under my maximum budget, so I may be looking at other options. Building an EV will continue for me, however, just probably not an EV Bug. I'm thinking that I'll keep old blue as a ICE car and possibly restore it... but that'll be a while down the road.

Right now, I'm thinking of picking up a used "needs-new-batteries" EV that I can complete for under my budget.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

You can certianly save time time and money that way, just be sure not to slack on your reading. You'll need to know even more to tell what you're getting into with someone else's build.


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## otedawg (Apr 23, 2012)

I'll be sure to do that. I'm actually looking at a Solectria Force... we'll see what comes of that.


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## corbin (Apr 6, 2010)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Corbin, how do you spin them individually?
> 
> I got mine out, took seconds to remove screws and 5 min to label stuff. I was shocked to find 6 light bulbs in there...I've only ever seen 1 on.
> 
> I stuck a retractable pen gear on a drill and spun it up and over to get the first few digits to my current e-mile guesstimate, but I don't want to do the 5K one that way.


You just push the little gear thing aside and spin them to where you want them. Check out

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179776

Just be careful!
corbin


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Thanks for the link. I now know what a fuel gauge vibrator is and don't need to worry about putting it back in (speedometer is back in the car, but not fully assembled).

On mine there's no way to push anything aside. There's metal on both sides.

I ended up hooking up an old reel motor to a rubber band and letting that do the work. The only issue was it turned much faster than expected and I overshot by 1000 when I went to stir dinner on the stove. I still don't understand how it took me 5-10 min to turn 2K with my drill and a stupid rubber band could do 1K/min. Also, I need to keep some rubber bands in the garage.


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## ubersmart (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> I still don't understand how it took me 5-10 min to turn 2K with my drill and a stupid rubber band could do 1K/min.


The rubber band method could very well spin the speedo faster if the diameter of the shaft on the drill was larger than the speedo cable (or whatever the rubber band was spinning on the speedo.)


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

yeah, I just expected the slippage to slow it down lots more. At least while I was watching it it wasn't very fast...it wasn't a good connection at all.


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## exchaoordo (Aug 4, 2010)

I've got a 71 VW Bug at 72v using Wilderness EV kit (done by prior owner) but with upgrades. 
-I'd avoid Wilderness as a supplier in general, not a good experience with them.
-For cables, the guys at Genuine Dealz (an unfortunate name) have been great.
-You can always run cable through the heater channels for a neat look.
-I don't know what your battery weight will be but keep in mind you want to balance the thing so your powerless steering works well.
-I'd dissent on performance: sure 144 volts is great, and LiIon is great, but it all costs money. My 72 volt system is my daily driver and it works for what I need. What's your hurry. Keep in mind the 1971 Beetle was no star performer by today's standards in any case.


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

For what it's worth - after 200 miles over the past week in 70's and 80 degree weather -- a mix of freeway (one 14 mile out, 14 mile back freeway loop @ 70mph with a 5 minute stop), stop-and-go-highway, and more residential <40mph stuff... I can 100% say that 48 cells (~157V) and a Soliton Jr can put out more than enough power to make a bug perfectly usable in all situations (and even what I would consider 'peppy').


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

What's size cells are you using? Do you know your average wh/m and at various speeds?


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> What's size cells are you using? Do you know your average wh/m and at various speeds?


100ah.

I do not know how to calculate that. All I have data-wise is what the Soliton Jr puts out in it's logs. Can I turn that into wh/mile somehow?


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## lowcrawler (Jun 27, 2011)

corbin said:


> corbin


p.s. Corbin ... nice name!

http://www.federerphotography.com/blog/


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

lowcrawler said:


> 100ah.
> 
> I do not know how to calculate that. All I have data-wise is what the Soliton Jr puts out in it's logs. Can I turn that into wh/mile somehow?


I don't have a Sol, but I bet there's good info in there. Easiest way to do it usually is with some kind of AH counter or SOC calculator. I use a JLD404 now. How do you know how much power you use?


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