# Planning a 2000 Ford Excursion build



## Pele (Aug 31, 2016)

So first, the prerequisites:


Your skill level with auto mechanics and fabrication
I am a skilled mechanic... While not ASE certified, I have worked in an automotive shop. I can rebuild engines and transmissions.

I have worked in a machine shop. I know how to operate a knee mill, lathe, and program CNC machines. Having access to those items... Not so much. I suppose I can model what I need in CAD and send it off.

I'm not gonna call myself a welder... I'm a guy who might be able to weld. I can stick two relatively large pieces of metal together. I wouldn't trust my life or anyone else's on it though.

Of course my rules to live by when I fire up the MillerMatic are the following:
The bigger the glob, the better the job... and
Grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't.

By day, I'm an electronics field engineer. Reading and drawing diagrams, interpreting specifications, and wiring things up is what I do.


The range you are hoping to get (how many miles/charge)
50 miles per charge, MINIMUM. I will be using an ICE Range Extender to get past that, but I don't want it to kick in on a normal back and forth to work commute.


What level of performance you are hoping to get
Equivalent to a typical full-size SUV or truck. With the torque of an electric motor, towing should be no issue. Top speed 100 MPH unladen... Give or take.


How much money you are willing to put into your project
I'd like to say money is no object... Wouldn't everyone? Still, I've seen some interesting cost savings in cutting apart dead laptop batteries for 18650 LiIon cells and raiding scrapyards for parts...

Let's say 10K, not counting the base vehicle.


What parts you've already considered, if any.
Why reinvent the wheel? I've been looking for a wrecked Frito-Lay truck to no avail. I think they run Hyundai 90 Kw motors. Also considering some Remy HVH250 motors from Tahoe hybrids.

Considering just putting the motor in place of where the factory transmission is, keeping the factory axles and such.

*So you can ignore the below if you like... It's my backstory/introduction.*

There are VERY few (if any) full size truck or SUV conversions that I've seen. Obviously, a full-size truck or SUV is a heavy machine and necessitates large batteries and a large motor.

If VIA Motors and Smith Electric and Several Other Companies can produce these, then it can't be beyond the realm of physics...

Besides, bigger vehicle means more space for motors and batteries.

So why such a lumbering barge? Most people interested in electric vehicles are interested in preventing climate change and are already used to driving small cars. Even from other ICE powered SUV drivers, I sometimes need to justify my rolling zipcode.

Well, I have a rental property and need to haul things like drywall and lumber or large appliances like a fridge or hater heater at a moment's notice. I also routinely do work on my house... Project of the summer is a new deck.

I also have a property set aside for when I retire. It's five acres and I haul a tractor to the property to mow it occasionally.

I tow a track day car to the race track and routinely work on cars. I haul engines and transmissions and axles around frequently... In fact, I blew the clutch and shocks on a Honda Civic sedan while transporting a drivetrain.

Previous vehicle was a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel. It actually got double the fuel economy of my Excursion. The Diesel engine was MUCH more efficient and powerful than the gasoline unit that I have now.

I have two kids and dogs. I needed three rows of seats.

On top of that, the bed was a pain in the butt. If I loaded up on mulch or compost at the county dump and hauled it back home, I'd have to unload it immediately. If I didn't, then I'd be driving back and forth to work with a ton of mulch flying out of the bed and ending up all over the highway.

A trailer is MUCH more convenient. They're much lower, meaning loading things is easier. I can unhitch and leave it behind when I don't need it. The only downside is backing up and parking with them... But that's a driver skill thing which I can improve.

With the Dodge gone and the Ford Excursion, I've been looking to find a wrecked Dodge and swap in the Diesel engine and transmission to regain the power and efficiency I once had.

Then I started thinking... If I'm going to swap drivetrains, do I want to go Manual or Automatic? I'd really like the best of both worlds and go with a Dual Clutch Transmission; an Eaton EDCO-6F107A-P... But those are too new and not easily found in the scrapyard. The manual transmission options (NV5600 or ZF6) didn't have a high enough overdrive gear for the efficiency I wanted on the highway, and I'd lose momentum when shifting if I was towing up a hill. The factory Dodge 47RE transmission was sketchy behind a Diesel engine, the stock 4R100 in the Ford isn't much better behind its 7.3L Diesel counterpart. It's going to take a lot to beef those up and I'm still going to have a 4 speed transmission. I want something with a little more overdrive... The Allison 1000 in GM trucks is a six speed automatic transmission, but is also fairly expensive to upgrade.

If I'm gonna stick something in the transmission tunnel, why not stick a motor in there.

And so here I am.


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## coleasterling (Feb 29, 2012)

I didn't read past the first couple lines, but will when I get some more time. 

Where are you located?


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## Pele (Aug 31, 2016)

Updated my profile - Woodbridge, VA; About 30 miles south of Washington DC.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Pele

With your requirements you would do better sticking to your plan A and getting hold of another Cummins unit like the one on your Dodge

You could go electric but you are in the "wrong application" - for your needs a diesel would be much better

Those engines should be available - they almost always outlast the trucks they are installed in
And they last for about four times the lifetime of the Dodge Rams
Back in 2001 (when I was working for Cummins) we made 500 engines a day for the Dodge Rams
And another 500 a day for other US customers + 1000 day for the rest of the world

If you do get one out of something else be aware that the engines for the Rams were de-rated to avoid blowing up the gearboxes and back axles
Not max horsepower - but the max torque was de-rated from over 750 ftlbs for a truck to about 400 ftlbs for the Ram


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## Pele (Aug 31, 2016)

Duncan said:


> Hi Pele
> 
> With your requirements you would do better sticking to your plan A and getting hold of another Cummins unit like the one on your Dodge
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's one of the main reasons why I liked the engine. They're in industrial equipment, commercial vehicles, and always last a long time. And I know their power potential, which is why I was debating on transmission options.

So why am I in the wrong application? If VIA can electrify a Chevrolet Suburban, I should be right in the same league.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

The problem is the amount of energy you are talking about
50 miles in a heavy truck at high speed or towing something

That is (roughly) one hour at 100Kw (133hp) - or 100Kwatthours
That would require a battery of at least 20% larger (you never fully discharge a battery)
So 120Kwhrs

You see the issue? - its because you need a lot of power continuously

The biggest Tesla now has a 100Kwhr battery - not big enough!

The cheapest batteries available at present would be a Volt pack from a scrapped Volt
About $2000 for 16Kwhrs - you would need 8 of those so $16,000 for the batteries

Then think about recharging 
Most people just plug in at home - a 3Kw charger will recharge a 16Kwhr Volt in six hours
Your beast would require 48hours!

You can charge faster but then you need more power - a big cloths drier is about the biggest power hog in most homes - 8Kw
You would still need over 12 hours for a charge

In five years time could be a good option - at the moment not really


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Your application is possible, but would be a total waste of money in my opinion. No way you'll accomplish what you want for your budget.

Get a diesel truck.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Wrong approach perhaps. 

You need to be looking at wrecked hybrid /electric transit busses.

Might need the trailer for more batteries.

I'm at 450 wh/mi in the ranger for 40 ish miles range at 16KWH. Figure you need at least double so I suggest 1kw/mile. I'd go hybrid, which is close to heresy on this site.


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## minispeed (Jun 30, 2013)

What about 2 vehicles? Would your range needs still be 50 miles minimum if you were using an electric pick up like a ranger or s10 for the lighter duties? The above poster said he can get 40 out of a 16kWh battery which is what the volt unit is. With a DC motor rwd that would be a simple conversion and you may be able to find a used project to retrofit a newer battery into.

I think that if you got it working you'd be half way to the cost of a model x which will do everything you need. Sounds like a diesel is the way to go for now and wait for a used model X if you have your heart set on electric.


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