# DMOC 645 -manual -control options (GEVCU?)



## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*



boekel said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a more up to date version of the DMOC645 manual available? the version from (among others) evtv is from december 2009 and still has different connectors than found on the controllers from the Azure Dynamics auction.
> 
> I wonder if there are more differences...


Oh, there's all sorts of differences. The control scheme is completely different, the connectors are different. It's a fairly big change unfortunately. And, also unfortunately, they went out of business seemingly having never written a manual for the new controller. So, yes, that means there isn't a manual as far as I know. However, EVTV does have pinouts for the connector and reference for the ampseal connector you need to hook up to it (they should have the connector and wiring as well). And, I published a document about the canbus control scheme for the DMOC645 Gen 2. So, help is available but it's basically me and EVTV.

BTW, if you haven't bought a DMOC645 yet I have one for sale.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*

Are you Collink on evtv?

I already have two complete sets, and am located in Europe (Netherlands) so not the best location to buy from the USA

I'm very thankfull for the GEVCU project, wil probably buy at leas one in the near future, although for my situation (use in a boat) the software isn't perfect (yet), but as I'm better with mechanics than programming its the best option by far


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*

Wolftronix also has a version of the DMOC645 CAN interface. This version is from a guy with years of Azure Dynamics (Solectria) experience. I will be beta testing this version shortly in my 944 (to be delivered tomorrow by FedEx!!). I'll provide more info/feedback once I install it.

http://www.wolftronix.com/dmocAdapter/index.html


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*



boekel said:


> Are you Collink on evtv?
> 
> I already have two complete sets, and am located in Europe (Netherlands) so not the best location to buy from the USA
> 
> I'm very thankfull for the GEVCU project, wil probably buy at leas one in the near future, although for my situation (use in a boat) the software isn't perfect (yet), but as I'm better with mechanics than programming its the best option by far


Yes, that's me. As rwaudio mentioned, Wolf built a DMOC645 control box as well. I always knew that he was contemplating releasing it at a product. It looks very nice and Wolf is a very capable guy. He was first to get the DMOC645 working (beat me by day!) and he does have significant experience with older Solectria/Azure hardware.

Or, Jack has sold tons of GEVCUs so far and has more being built. So, in terms of head start we've got that but his board has more features. He is doing it all closed source (no schematics, no source code) whereas we're doing it all open - you get the schematics and the source code. If you aren't super code-savvy then you probably don't care either way. But, more people can modify GEVCU because it's open. Also, it is my understanding that he has no desire to start supporting all kinds of extra hardware with his control box - it's just for the DMOC645. I'll add support for anything that someone wants. And, I will expose speed mode if that'd help for your boat build. As I said on the EVTV forums, it's all there you just can't enable it right now. It'd be pretty easy to allow it to be enabled as one could do in the past.

But, the choice is yours. I know of other hardware that should be on the market within 6 months or so. The field is starting to flourish. Of course, I hope you buy a GEVCU just because I helped to build both the hardware and software but you've got to pick what's right for you.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*

I would agree with CKidder, the GEVCU will be a more powerful device in terms of eventual supported hardware they sky's the limit. The Wolftronix DMOC Adapter may never control another inverter unless all the DMOC's dry up and there is motivation to make it compatible with another device. 

I like the design and feature set of the Wolftronix so that's where I put my money. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the GEVCU, I just see resemblance to the EMW products which have wonderful idea's great prices, and open the doors to many new things. On the other hand because the sky is the limit they never settle on a working and refined design, development continues and there can be new hardware and software so quickly it may become difficult to match the hardware and software and documentation and pinouts and compatibility etc etc. 

I've built and used a number of EMW products and felt the pain of zero documentation (or worse yet bad documentation), incompatible software, no hardware support because I'm two versions behind etc. 
The GEVCU has a shot because Jack R. is a technical writer, and a self centered control freak (in this context that should be read as a compliment).


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*

I followed the Wolftronix box since I bought the Azure parts (about a year ago), but haven't seen any updates for almost a year now (also no video's, I subscribed to his youtube channel)

I really like the robustness of the hardware (GEVCU), the wolftronix version is probably just as robust (I think it has more isolated in-/output chanels, but only one CAN channel), but seeing no update's doesn't help.

Being on a boat I could just use any CAN enabled hardware (PLC also) but indeed, having an open source project behind it is superb! (

I hope Ckidder or anyone else can dig up the 'old code' for speed control, that would be awesome. Also it would probably be easier to do for someone who built the code...

Is there also some joystick mode already hidden in the software?


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*



boekel said:


> I followed the Wolftronix box since I bought the Azure parts (about a year ago), but haven't seen any updates for almost a year now (also no video's, I subscribed to his youtube channel)
> 
> I really like the robustness of the hardware (GEVCU), the wolftronix version is probably just as robust (I think it has more isolated in-/output chanels, but only one CAN channel), but seeing no update's doesn't help.


I don't want to put words in his mouth but it was my understanding that he wasn't sure he was going to offer it as a product so my guess would be that he hasn't offered updates because he didn't plan to actually offer it until recently. By all accounts his board is very robust and capable. I'm not sure of the number of canbus channels on his board.



> Being on a boat I could just use any CAN enabled hardware (PLC also) but indeed, having an open source project behind it is superb! (
> 
> I hope Ckidder or anyone else can dig up the 'old code' for speed control, that would be awesome. Also it would probably be easier to do for someone who built the code...
> 
> Is there also some joystick mode already hidden in the software?


Yes, I'll create some code to allow speed mode to be enabled. Right now I believe torque mode is locked in but literally there is a line like this in the code: setMode(MODE_TORQUE); and it could just as easily say setMode(MODE_SPEED); and you'd get what you want. Of course, you still need to set torque limits and such but it's all going to be pretty easy to support, at least on the serial console.

I don't see any reason that you couldn't use the throttle potentiometer driver in GEVCU to support a joystick. It's still a pot-based device. I suppose that the difference is that you want to be able to go in reverse with the same throttle and we don't do that right now. Would there be any regen at all on a boat? I know that the EVTV people are getting really big into boats right now so I think I could justify doing some work to support boats with speed mode and a joystick mode. They're likely to be putting things into boats in the future.


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## boekel (Nov 10, 2010)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*



CKidder said:


> I don't see any reason that you couldn't use the throttle potentiometer driver in GEVCU to support a joystick. It's still a pot-based device. I suppose that the difference is that you want to be able to go in reverse with the same throttle and we don't do that right now.


Yes, that's how my current (AC-industrial, diesel-electric) system works also.


> Would there be any regen at all on a boat? I know that the EVTV people are getting really big into boats right now so I think I could justify doing some work to support boats with speed mode and a joystick mode. They're likely to be putting things into boats in the future.


No regen (not a sailboat) but...

I have two set's...might want to use one as a generator (coupled to a car-type diesel engine), then speed control is a perfect way to do this (start diesel, warm up, apply throttle, set desired generator speed according to power-need)

One more possibility...
Two sets motor + dmoc on one axle...then speed control might be problematic if the two don't play together nicely, do you think they will share power? or maybe there is a trick to let them share equally


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*



boekel said:


> I have two set's...might want to use one as a generator (coupled to a car-type diesel engine), then speed control is a perfect way to do this (start diesel, warm up, apply throttle, set desired generator speed according to power-need)
> 
> One more possibility...
> Two sets motor + dmoc on one axle...then speed control might be problematic if the two don't play together nicely, do you think they will share power? or maybe there is a trick to let them share equally


I just wrote some code to expose the torque/speed mode setting on the configuration webpage. I haven't had a chance to test it but hopefully I can do that soon. Then you should be able to run in speed mode like you want.

If you hope to do regen with one of the motors then you actually want torque mode. You'd start up the diesel and then command the electric motor to have negative torque. You can do this right up to the point you stall the diesel engine or until you hit the power limit for regen - whichever comes first. 

I'd imagine that two motors on the same shaft would share better in speed mode than torque. In speed mode they're just trying to match a speed so they both can apply torque to do that. I have no idea how well they'd share the torque though. I think you'd end up with unequal sharing when the torque on the shaft is lower than what one could provide. Then, if you went to higher than one motor could do you'd see them start to balance a bit more up until you hit the limit of two motors/controllers where they'd both be going full blast. I'd imagine they won't regen unless you ask for negative torque even in speed mode. Whereas in torque mode they'd both try to obtain the torque you ask for up until they hit the speed upper limit and they'd just end up fighting for control. But, it'd be a learning experience. Those motors and controllers were never meant to run in tandem so I have no idea what they'd do.


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

*Re: DMOC 645 -up to date?- manual?*

I had the speed-control mode running on the DMOC when I was using my MicroRobotics VM2 board to give it CANbus commands. I was using it to "simulate" an ICE idling so it could run an automatic gearbox.

I just had to set the min & max torque limits to something sensible
(too high and the DMOC's speed control will go unstable) and set the speed target in the DMOC command frames. The program would switch between torque and speed commands on the fly, the DMOC seemed quite happy doing this

It worked fairly well, idling at 800 rpm with no throttle input, would rev up happily if the throttle was blipped. Would tend to try and "stall" when coming back down from high rpms back to "idle", there'd be about 1/2 second where the motor almost stopped, then it'd pick back up to 800 rpm

None of this would have been remotely possible without Colin's (and other's) hard work decoding the CANbus commands the DMOC needs

Sadly, I've now sold the DMOC & motor so have no hardware to play with!
(needed the $$ to pay for my holiday, or I'd have gone nuts!)


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello all

Where can I find out more about this Wolftronix board please? I would like to run 2 DMOC645s on 2 AC24LS drives. I'm certainly not clued up on software and programming so need it to be idiot proof. But I have a good head and can figure things out.

rwaudio, did you get this running on your 944?

electricmini how far along are you with your mini? Have you switched to a Curtis to drive your HPEVS motor, I seem to recollect...

Thanks for the help folks
Tyler


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

The best way I know to find it is here:

http://www.wolftronix.com/dmocAdapter/index.html

That webpage seems to have not been updated in more than a year and I have no idea what progress he has made. That's his site though so you can look up his email address and ask him about it.

Otherwise you're always free to come to the dark side. We have chips and salsa.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> Hello all
> 
> Where can I find out more about this Wolftronix board please? I would like to run 2 DMOC645s on 2 AC24LS drives. I'm certainly not clued up on software and programming so need it to be idiot proof. But I have a good head and can figure things out.
> 
> ...


I did have it running in my 944, (amazingly well) at reduced power, Wolf had the prototypes configured manually to 200Nm. Mine had a power supply issue (my car causing issues with his design) so he's in the process of evaluating and revising the power supply design. I also got a GEVCU, if it's still nice after work I'll be installing it today (unlikely). Can't wait to see what 300Nm is like in the 944, the GEVCU torque values are already unlocked and configurable. A friend of mine has a few more DMOC's so I figured the GEVCU wasn't a bad purchase, the unit I don't keep in the car will have a purpose. Part of the reason I wanted to buy a GEVCU was Colin's amazing support and help configuring my DMOC 645, without him I'd still be running into the low voltage limit and in cold weather the car would be undriveable. Thank you again Colin!


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks CKidder 
Please elaborate how I get to the dark side... 

Rwaudio 
Do you recommend one over the other? Is the GEVCU plug and play? 

Thanks guys


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

tylerwatts said:


> Please elaborate how I get to the dark side...



1. Sacrifice your firstborn son to Jack Rickard.

2. Buy a GEVCU.

Actually, you can even skip step 1.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I'd not have a hope for step 1... But getting close already. I'll have a look at this GEVCU as I'm n familiar with it.


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## rwaudio (May 22, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> Thanks CKidder
> Please elaborate how I get to the dark side...
> 
> Rwaudio
> ...


After I get the GEVCU installed I should be able to give my opinion.

On the surface the Wolftronics is DMOC only (maybe Brusa charger support later), but has more features now. Power control (via switch for eco through sport type modes or continuously variable with a pot). Cruise control, some analog outputs that will drive gauges or other displays. Regen on/off (important for slippery roads), clutch input to disable thottle/regen when shifting. Configurable web page for gauges (just about anything the DMOC spits out can be viewed). (Prototype was limited to preprogrammed values for throttle/regen etc. when I get it back it might be fully open)

The GEVCU is on a whole other level for compatibility, with a bright future of devices that come out of the OEM vehicles. But today it doesn't have many DMOC specific features, traditional IO is limited, with a future based on another CAN interface for gauges etc.

So it depends entirely on what you need today. The GEVCU will do a lot more, especially in the future. However today, I'd say the Wolftronics has a much larger feature set to integrate a Siemens/DMOC into a conversion. On the other hand if your DMOC dies and you need a new controller the GEVCU can select the common replacements from a drop down menu and with a few tweaks you are probably back up and running. The Wolftronics would likely need to be replaced (with a GEVCU) if you can't find another DMOC.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Ah well I'm hoping there are some DMOCs left in a couple months as I want to use those for sure and to Wolftronics sounds great. I'll try contact Wolftronics also as I want to know how I can run 2 controllers in parallel for awd with some sort of traction control.


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

Hi,

I have already installed the Siemens Motor, the DMOC and the cable harness of the GEVCU.
But one thing is still a bid unclear to me:
Do I need to configure the DMOC (flashing it) or does everything do the GEVCU for me?
I just bought the parts to start with a plug and play solution and the graphical user interface looked quite easy to handle, but I have never used it before. I also have a second set as spare parts source for the future if anything goes wrong.

Just a short step list what is necessary to do to bring it up to live would be enough. Cables and ampseal connectors are in place between motor and controller.


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## CKidder (Dec 12, 2009)

When you first buy a DMOC645 it has no firmware. That is, unless you bought one from Jack or me. In that case we flashed the firmware for you. But, I don't remember selling you a DMOC so chances are it wasn't me.  So, if you have a blank DMOC you'll need to flash it. For that you need a Kvaser Leaf Light canbus dongle. Then, you need to get the Azure Dynamics tools from the EVTV forum (go to www.evtv.me and then navigate to the forum then to the one for DMOC645) There is a tool to do the flashing but you need to be in Windows XP. I don't remember the exact name of the tool but it's within the AZD tools. If you can't find it I can try to look it up. There should be a discussion on how to do this on the EVTV forums.

Jack at EVTV also wrote up a whole manual for the GEVCU. It shows how to hook it up, use it, etc. Do you have that manual?


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

Hi,

yes last evening I have started to read more in detail and I have updated the GEVCU to the latest firmware from the evtv page.
Yes you are right, I didn't buy the DMOC over you or Jack so it is not flashed, thanks for that information. My colleagued had a Kvaser Leaf, I will ask him if he still has that one.
About the GEVCU, I have one question which is a little bid unclear:
there is a list of in and outputs of the GEVCU an dthere are several grounds (depending on the voltage, if 12V - chassis ground, and DI/DO GND and AI/AO GND). 
But from the declaration Im a bid worried:
There is three times EXT GND, one time of it it says Chassis, Bat- (12V) (Pin 7,13,14) are these refereing to the same GND?
To which pin belongs pin 8 (not ext. GND). Is it a shield for the CAN?
Does GND pin 19 refer to DIO15-18 or AIO 20-23?
And do GND 29-31 belong to 32-35 Digital IN 0-3 and to pin 24-28?

Do you have an update list of it? It was called Pin assignments. I have only left a printout from last year.

Thanks for your feedback!


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## Elegancec (May 23, 2012)

Pin assignments Gevcu 4 

Pin nr. voltage level Description
1 +12V voltage input from vehicle +12V
2 +12V out regulated from DUE
3 3,3V Digital Out 0
4 3,3V Digital Out 1
5 3,3V Digital Out 2
6 3,3V Digital Out 3
7 GND GND internal
8 GND GND internal
9 CAN 0 High
10 CAN 0 Low
11 CAN 1 High
12 CAN 1 Low
13 GND GND internal
14 GND GND internal
15 3,3V Digital Out 4
16 3,3V Digital Out 5
17 3,3V Digital Out 6
18 3,3V Digital Out 7
19 GND GND internal
20 3,3V Analog In 0
21 3,3V Analog In 1
22 3,3V Analog In 2
23 3,3V Analog In 3
24 +5V +5V regulated out
25 +5V +5V regulated out
26 +5V +5V regulated out
27 +5V +5V regulated out
28 +5V +5V regulated out
29 GND GND internal
30 GND GND internal
31 GND GND internal
32 3,3V Digital In 0
33 3,3V Digital In 1
34 3,3V Digital In 2
35 3,3V Digital In 3


Which of the pins is the chassis ground? It get's supplied via pin 1 with +12V.
Of cause it is wired via the cable harness which comes with the GEVCU, but just for my understanding.


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## Falcon65 (Mar 22, 2015)

In the second post on this string ckidder refered to the DMOCs sold by the Azure sell out auction and the ones sold by EVTV, saying "Oh, there's all sorts of differences. The control scheme is completely different, the connectors are different. It's a fairly big change unfortunately." I have a DMOC 645 and a seimens motor. Does this mean that the Azure DMOC won't work with the GEVCU? Does anyone have more information about this? Thanks in advance.


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## electricmini (Oct 21, 2008)

Falcon65 said:


> In the second post on this string ckidder refered to the DMOCs sold by the Azure sell out auction and the ones sold by EVTV, saying "Oh, there's all sorts of differences. The control scheme is completely different, the connectors are different. It's a fairly big change unfortunately." I have a DMOC 645 and a seimens motor. Does this mean that the Azure DMOC won't work with the GEVCU? Does anyone have more information about this? Thanks in advance.


It depends on which DMOC it is:

The ones for the Transit Connect were liquid cooled, these work just fine with the GEVCU and the Siemens motor from the Transit Connect.

I've now got myself a Ford Ranger Siemens motor, which works with a DMOC set up for the Transit Connect.

I have an _*air-cooled*_ DMOC 645, but this WON'T work with the Transit Connect motors - it just flat refuses to accept the parameters file, there must be some setting that can't be changed to do with the air-cooled heatsink. Major bummer, as the power stage is _identical_

I've got around this by fitting the CPU board from a *liquid-cooled* DMOC 645 into my air-cooled unit - so now it thinks it's a liquid cooled unit.
This accepts the parameter file and works just fine with my motor.

Bottom line is:
If you have the std set of bits that was going to go into a Transit Connect (liquid cooled inverter, liquid cooled motor), it'll work just fine with the GEVCU.

If you have an air-cooled DMOC, you may have trouble


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## Jeremyfc1 (Feb 5, 2016)

Ok so I picked up three units from e450 hybrid box trucks all air cooled controler and motor. Is there any way to get this running stand alone? With the dmoc 645? I have every peice of the system am building an electric rock crawler mid mount motor wanting to use the dmoc but if the air cooled unit won't work? Will a scott drive controler run this motor?


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