# DCP Raptor 600, hold onto your electrons!



## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

*DCP Raptor 600*

Anyone out there know much about the DCP Raptor 600? 

I think a previous owner of my EV limitted to about 200amps (probably to save weak batteries). I'm sure I can find the dial to turn it up, but should I? Or just live with the people honking in the mirror ?


-Bruce


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

I bumped the Current Limit up about 25% (from ~180amps to ~230), HUGE improvement in low-end torque. I may bump it up more. I actually used slightly less kwh (5%) to get to work today (maybe because I spend less time climbing hills?)


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

If anyone is following this 5 years from now... The throttle limiter plays a big factor too, setting it too low and the motor runs uncomanded (zero throttle)... aahh! Too high and it won't let the motor spin-out in low gears as it really should. It seams like its used to set the sensitivity of the RPM limitter.

-Bruce


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Good information to know - try not to run anybody over


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

I turned it up... a lot, and my performance is far better. But... now the BMS has started to chirp that I'm some number of cells voltage have gone too low (any one will do it). So I backed it off a little and now I'm about perfect! I'm sure towards the end of the charge, it will go off, but I'd rather have the hill climbing power when I need it.

-Bruce


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2010)

What kind of batteries and how old are they? Keep it set high but just under the max limit. It will save your controller. 550 limit would do you OK. I think you'd like that performance and I'd almost bet you never see 550 amps if you have lead batteries. 

Pete


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

gottdi said:


> What kind of batteries and how old are they? Keep it set high but just under the max limit. It will save your controller. 550 limit would do you OK. I think you'd like that performance and I'd almost bet you never see 550 amps if you have lead batteries.
> 
> Pete


TS LifePo4, 100ah... It's at about 250 absolute maximum now, so I'm safe. At this setting, when I really pound the throttle, total voltage drops under 128v for 44 cells, 2.9v/cell, that's average, some are probably dropping lower.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

Update... now my raptor wants to quit when it gets hot. It appears to be dropping out after hills. Not on the hills... after them. Failure is de-energizing the contactors (it controls them). So the entire high-V system goes cold. Wooohoo! I need a new controller 

-Bruce


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2011)

bruceme said:


> Update... now my raptor wants to quit when it gets hot. It appears to be dropping out after hills. Not on the hills... after them. Failure is de-energizing the contactors (it controls them). So the entire high-V system goes cold. Wooohoo! I need a new controller
> 
> -Bruce


No, you need to mount a good thick base deep finned aluminum heat sink to that controller. Dang another one trying to get away with no heat sink. It is an absolute must to have a good sink and good fan so you can keep the heat away. Heat will kill that controller post haste if you don't stop driving until you get one installed. It needs to be flat and you need good thermal compound between the sink and controller to transfer heat properly. NO EXCEPTIONS. I'd say bump up the amperage for your acceleration. Keeping it low means your vehicle is pushing those 250 amps far too long. Put the amps up so you can use them when needed. Mine is set at 700 and will be reset to 800 tomorrow. I almost never see those high amps except maybe briefly. 

Get a sink on that controller NOW. 

Pete


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

The DCP controller has a built in large finned heat sink and thermostatically controlled fan. There have been issues with the fan dying and sometimes issues with temperature sensing.

There are several version of DCP controller out there. The older units where built by DC Power Systems in Washington state. These had an inductive throttle and specific instructions for setting it up. These units have either a DB-9 connector for the 12 volt wiring or a terminal strip for these connections (most have the later.) New DCPower controller as also available from Black Sheep Technology. These are a little different with minor case changes and a regular resistive throttle system. Peter from BST can repair older DCP controllers. 

These used to be the controller to have. I installed a rare DCP 450 in the Rabbit Pickup I built. Here are my links on DCP controllers:

Black Sheep Technology 
EV album page with model information
DCP wiring diagram
DC Power Systems owners manual


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Heat will kill that controller post haste if you don't stop driving until you get one installed. It needs to be flat and you need good thermal compound between the sink and controller to transfer heat properly. NO EXCEPTIONS.


Yes exception on both accounts. Slapping a heat sink on a Soliton won't do jack, because the only flat surface you can mount it on won't contribute a bit to the cooling (that's why there's additional water cooling). A Soliton will also handle overheating gracefully to protect itself, so you can safely keep driving even when it's hot. It just might not produce the motor current you expect it to until it cools off again.

So, yes, there's at least one exception to your "NO EXCEPTION"-claim. Don't spread FUD.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2011)

QER,

Yes there are a few exceptions. I had just forgot. Had to go take a look again. Another that has a built in heat sink and fan is the Synkromotive controller. 

So then I'd say check to see that the fan is working. That will be important. 

It also was not a FUD thing either. The controller does have a heat sink. I has one because it needs one. The DCP is air cooled, yours is water cooled, the warp is water cooled and the synkro is air cooled but ALL controllers NEED a heat sink. There is no FUD in that. I had just forgot and had to go look again. I thought that the DCP needed an added sink. MY BAD.

Pete


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

looking at the SOL-1 on my floor: primary cooling is AIR, if I have this insane need to run above 200KW, then I might need to have water cooling.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2011)

I consider the water cooling the primary on the Soliton1. Air if you can't implement it yet. Air gives limited continuous power where water gives max continuous power due to the greater cooling ability of water in their controller. So water IS primary air secondary. Do you plan on using air cooling?


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

EVfun said:


> The DCP controller has a built in large finned heat sink and thermostatically controlled fan. There have been issues with the fan dying and sometimes issues with temperature sensing.


Yup, sure does!



EVfun said:


> These units have either a DB-9 connector for the 12 volt wiring or a terminal strip for these connections (most have the later.)


Yup, I'm the latter. But I think I have a pot throttle. Was that an option?

Thanks for the links, I'll send mine off!


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

btw... my fan appears to be working and it gives a reasonable flow (seems on par with a PC power supply). I also cleaned openned the box and cleared the dust with air.

I suspect a sensor failure

-Bruce


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

I think all the ones built by Black Sheep have use the regular Curtis type pot box and the DCP ones where inductive. I'm not sure if the inductive units could work with a Curtis style pot box. I think that is a pretty simple internal change. Be sure to contact Black Sheep to get an estimate and shipping information. I'm glad the info helped. It is nice to see those old controller stay on the road. 

Oh, the rev limiter on those things tends to be troublesome too. They work perfectly without it so if you have one try a run with it unplugged. They had problems with the strain relief failing at the sender and since they where infrared things could get dirty or misaligned.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

gottdi said:


> I consider the water cooling the primary on the Soliton1. Air if you can't implement it yet. [...] Do you plan on using air cooling?


There are people that run the S1 on air cooling only. If you don't have a very heavy vehicle or drive very aggressively (like racing) it'll do just dandy. Definitely in pair with other properly air cooled controllers.


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## CarsGuy1 (Jun 6, 2011)

Did you ever get to the bottom of the problem? I'd be interested in hearing how this turned out.


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

CarsGuy1 said:


> Did you ever get to the bottom of the problem? I'd be interested in hearing how this turned out.


I talked with the guy who Black Sheep uses to fix their older Raptors. He said the capacitors had likely worn out (it's 10 years old). So I'm replacing the all the capacitors on the filter board. 10 x 2200uF-200wv ~$90 Mouser + shipping, it's in the mail right now. If that doesn't make the problem go away, I'll send it to him.

-Bruce


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

So I replaced all the big filter caps. The original solder job had thick deposits of resin under the protective silicon glue. I did my best to solder the thick board, I found a small blow torch used carefully with lots of resin worked best. I cleaned it all up nicely with acetone and a wire brush and laid down a fresh layer of silicone. re-assembled, re-installed, everything tested out fine.

Today was my first full commute, it went fine. I need to do a hard load test to see if I've fixed it for real.

-Bruce


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## DawidvC (Feb 14, 2010)

Unfortunately electrolytic caps tend to dry out over time, causing problems like you experienced. Your new caps will probably be good for another 10 years or so. It is the most common failure point of drives and power supplies that I have encountered.

I am glad that you could get the controller fixed. Happy motoring!

BTW, this is the reason that the Soliton controllers do not use electrolytic caps.

Regards
Dawid


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## bruceme (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm happy to report all is well, I did the hilliest stretch in Kansas (sustained 200A for 2 minutes) and all is well again.

-Bruce


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## ndplume (May 31, 2010)

Bruce,
I'm having what sounds like the same issue. I just picked up a used Raptor 600, it has the inductive throttle. I have a CA watching the battery amps. After I use it for a short time driving in the city, the Amp drop out completely. I don't hear my contactor dropping in and out, just the amps. I'll put a meter on the contactor control tomorrow and see if it's opening up. After a few seconds (like 2 to 5 seconds), I'll get power back again, but only for awhile. Once its in that mode, it kind of stays that way. This only started about 2 weeks ago and I haven't ventured too far from home because of it. I also didn't get one of the 3 LED indicators. Do you have one? Have a schematic? Was your indicator showing over heat? from the instructions I thought if it overheated, it would cut back the power, not drop out totally.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

There seems to be 3 main issues with the old Raptor controllers. 

The first is a failure of the rpm pickup module. That will cut power so if you have one connected I would recommend a drive with it unplugged from the controller first. The controller will work fine without it but you will not have a rev limiter. 

The second is the connection between the power boards and the logic board on the side of the unit. Sometimes the connections just need to be cleaned, other times the connectors need to be re-soldered. It can cause all manor of self shut-downs, failure to start issues, and power that cuts in and out.

The third is the slow failure of the input electrolytic capacitors. This seems to be the only controller out there that has a fit when these get old. Sometimes tired old caps cause a loss of power and erratic operation when they warm. 

I've never seen an issue with the Raptor inductive throttle system aside from not being adjusted correctly. You must not start your DCP controller with your foot on the throttle because this controller defines zero throttle as the throttle position it sees on start up. If full throttle is adjusted wrong it can severely limit power.


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## ndplume (May 31, 2010)

EVFun,
I tried running the controller all weekend with the tach out. The controller worked like a charm!. So the loss of power a speed WAS the tach input along with the little bumps that I felt a low speed. I'll need to dig down to the sensor and see if it's come loose or dirty. The plug in the controller looks fine. I tried plugging/unplugging a few times, but it still had issues, hence the idea it's probably at the sending end of the cable.

I also rec'd some information on the LED status indicator. I'll see if I can get it to work and then work up a schematic.


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