# California Clear Air Sticker



## el ohmbre (May 28, 2009)

Has anyone ever tried to apply for a California Clean Air Sticker with a DIY EV conversion?

I tried and DMV referred me to the Air Resources Board who referred me to Federal Regulations that are so complex and mixed with so many other regulations they are impossible to decypher.

Thanks,
Tom 
http://www.elohmbre.com


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I have clean air stickers on my conversion. I went to a CARB referee (Junior college automotive shop instructor) and he certified it as smog exempt. Once it was in the system, I went to the DMV and was able to register it as electric. I submitted the application for the stickers, and received them about 2 months later. 

Brian Blocher has a write up on his blog about his experience getting stickers. 
http://s2kev.blogspot.com/ May 26, 2009.


----------



## el ohmbre (May 28, 2009)

Thanks a lot for the reponse. I also visited the local community college (El Camino College in Redondo Beach) but had a BAR referee certify my car. That enabled me to get registered as a fully electric vehicle. But didn't allow me to get the Clean Air Stickers.

I read Brian's blog, but he's only talking about getting registered. I didn't see anything about Clean Air stickers (unless I missed it).

I will see if there is a CARB referee at the community college. That makes perfect sense to me. All the information I could get from ARB is for big manufacturers only. I can't even understand the documents.

Tom 
http://www.elohmbre.com


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

If your car is already registered as electric, you can go to the DMV and apply for the stickers.


----------



## el ohmbre (May 28, 2009)

Yeah, that's what I thought based on the DMV website but my application was rejected and returned. I wrote to the Director of the DMV and was told I needed "an ARB Certificate of Clean Air Compliance." I was directed to the ARB who said "not all electric cars qualify... we certify the manufacturer and not the vehicle...the purpose is not to remove dirty cars but to advance technology...DIY project do NOT qualify unless you go through the entire manufacturers certification program." 

That's what they said. Doesn't seem right but on the the DMV site and the ARB site it says: "A 2004 model-year or older vehicle that meets the California ultra–low emission vehicle (ULEV) standard for exhaust emissions *and* the federal ILEV standard." The ARB is stating that I have to PROVE my car meets these standards by hiring a certified testing lab to go through the entire ULEV and ILEV test routines.

Again, this really doesn't seem right. Where/how did you find the CARB Referee? I wonder if this is just a new name for the BAR referee I visited.

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

My CARB referee was the instructor who teaches the automotive class at Las Positas Junior college. He printed out a certificate showing the car was electric, and this is what I took to the DMV. 

The DMV told me to wait a few weeks until the "electric vehicle" status was in their system before applying for the carpool stickers. If your car is registered as electric, you might try again.





el ohmbre said:


> Yeah, that's what I thought based on the DMV website but my application was rejected and returned. I wrote to the Director of the DMV and was told I needed "an ARB Certificate of Clean Air Compliance." I was directed to the ARB who said "not all electric cars qualify... we certify the manufacturer and not the vehicle...the purpose is not to remove dirty cars but to advance technology...DIY project do NOT qualify unless you go through the entire manufacturers certification program."
> 
> That's what they said. Doesn't seem right but on the the DMV site and the ARB site it says: "A 2004 model-year or older vehicle that meets the California ultra–low emission vehicle (ULEV) standard for exhaust emissions *and* the federal ILEV standard." The ARB is stating that I have to PROVE my car meets these standards by hiring a certified testing lab to go through the entire ULEV and ILEV test routines.
> 
> ...


----------



## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

just wanted to add my experience. My car was inpected at the local DMV, and the 'motive power' was officially changed to 'E' in the system. I waited until I received my new title to confirm it says E (it does) before sending in my HOV sticker paperwork. It was rejected. 

A phone call to ARB got me nothing but a stern, 'if your car is not on the ARB approved list (which is on their website), you will never get a sticker.'

bummer.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

I think this might be a case where they were just trying to get you off the phone as quickly as possible. Might give it another shot in a couple months. Just tell them based on the information on the carb website, it does qualify. Did you take it to get inspected by a referee station, or just the DMV?


----------



## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

I had a similar conversation quite recently where they said in no uncertain terms that the ARB would never, ever certify a conversion as a ZEV for the purposes of getting a CAV decal. Quite a disappointment.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

being from there (can you say native?), I have learned thet you always have to do research and have it in printed form before talking to someone high enough in the food chain to fix the issue. Might be good to involve the local media to the plight. Managers typically cave when there is a news van in the parking lot.

Good luck


----------



## dladd (Jun 1, 2011)

piotrsko said:


> being from there (can you say native?), I have learned thet you always have to do research and have it in printed form before talking to someone high enough in the food chain to fix the issue. Might be good to involve the local media to the plight. Managers typically cave when there is a news van in the parking lot.
> 
> Good luck


that's really not the issue. They have simply changed their minds on a high level about allowing converted cars to be eligible for the sticker. I'm sure some will still slip though, but there is no official paperwork or proper channel that will guarantee you a white sticker any more. 

Same deal with CNG, fwiw. You can get the sticker for a factory CNG car/truck, but you cannot get a sticker if you did a home conversion to CNG.


----------



## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

You would think that if the CARB really cared about air quality they would issue stickers to any zero emission vehicle...

Guess not.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

If you have not already taken your car to a CARB referee and gotten it smog exempted, you should do this first. There are certainly many, myself included, and others who switched to LPG who have gotten Carpool stickers. 





piotrsko said:


> being from there (can you say native?), I have learned thet you always have to do research and have it in printed form before talking to someone high enough in the food chain to fix the issue. Might be good to involve the local media to the plight. Managers typically cave when there is a news van in the parking lot.
> 
> Good luck


----------



## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

Yea, I have done all the steps and was told by the CARB that there is no way you will ever get a clean air sticker. They only issue them to manufactured autos that are on their list. Etischer and Corbin got lucky


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

From the DMV website:

White CAV decals are issued according to the following criteria:


 A vehicle that meets California’s *super* ultra–low emission vehicle (SULEV) standard for exhaust emissions *and* the federal inherently low–emission vehicle (ILEV) evaporative emission standard. This includes certain *zero–*emission vehicles (ZEVs).
 A 2004 model-year or older vehicle that meets the California ultra–low emission vehicle (ULEV) standard for exhaust emissions *and* the federal ILEV standard.


There is even a check box on the "Clean air sticker application form" for "My vehicle has been converted to an alternative fuel". 

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg1000.pdf


You just have to be a bit more persistent and educate the paper pushers at the DMV. They don't deal with this sort of thing every day, and just want to get you out the door. Have you tried sending the application form in (with your ARB certification letter)?


----------



## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

On the DMV form where they have the checkox, there is the requiremet for an "ARB Certification Letter". This is not the letter you get when you visit the smog check referee station to get your smog exempt letter for the "E" registration. What they want is a letter from the ARB saying your car complies with all their standards and has passed their extensive test program. You would need to pay them to test your car just like a manufacturer would. The cost for their testing would not be within the means of any ordinary EV converter.

I wish it were not true, but...


----------



## njloof (Nov 21, 2011)

Yup, it's not the DMV that's blocking the sticker, it's the ARB.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

That is what I did to get the sticker. The Referee station printed out a smog exemption certificate, and I mailed that along with the "Carpool sticker application form". I think they even exempted the fees, if I paid anything it was less than $20. The inspection was a breeze, they just checked that there was no gas engine, and it was a zero emission vehicle. 

Have you had your car inspected yet? 



Travdude said:


> On the DMV form where they have the checkox, there is the requiremet for an "ARB Certification Letter". This is not the letter you get when you visit the smog check referee station to get your smog exempt letter for the "E" registration. What they want is a letter from the ARB saying your car complies with all their standards and has passed their extensive test program. You would need to pay them to test your car just like a manufacturer would. The cost for their testing would not be within the means of any ordinary EV converter.
> 
> I wish it were not true, but...


----------



## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

Yes, I had my car inspected and got the letter from the Bureau of Automotive Repair. My registration has been changed to "E". I sent the clean air application in three different times because the DMV application form kept being revised. 

I had lengthy discussions with the DMV Special Processing Unit and the CARB. Late 2011, the DMV firmed up their policy on not giving out the stickers unless they have the certification letter. You got yours before that.

The CARB certification letter is not something that the DIY converter can obtain.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, the current "clean air sticker application form" explicitly includes conversions, so their intention must be to allow conversions to qualify. 

Did you send in the letter the BAR gave you with your application? 

If the BAR letter is no longer accepted proof the car is zero emissions, then what is involved in getting a CARB letter?


----------



## Travdude (May 11, 2009)

The reason they have a check box on the DMV form for conversions is if you have a manufactured conversion kit that has been certified by the CARB.

I believe the CARB certification involves a warranty and some other requirements. I'll try and find it on their website, wish me luck!


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

Good luck, I would think CARB should only care that it is a zero emission vehicle, there is nothing else to say. I could see why warranty requirements would apply to things like catalytic converters... But no matter how poorly the car runs, it is still zero emissions. 

Funny thing, my last DMV renewal required me to get a proof of correction letter from VW to certify my ignition coils were replaced due to a CARB recal. Of course VW could not provide a letter of correction, because they can only certify that they corrected the problem, and of course they cannot correct it because the car has no ignition coils. I jumped though all the hoops, and now waiting for my registration...





Travdude said:


> The reason they have a check box on the DMV form for conversions is if you have a manufactured conversion kit that has been certified by the CARB.
> 
> I believe the CARB certification involves a warranty and some other requirements. I'll try and find it on their website, wish me luck!


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

OK it's murky for me since I haven't had to do this for forever. There used to be a way to get a one shot CARB exemption / cert for whatever was installed on your ICE vehicle. One branch was with a vehicle over 30 years old having unavailable parts, another was that you were going to manufacture parts and had limited funds (?) engineering or whatever. I recall that there is an appeal process with arbitration that you have to go through, and CARB isn't particularly happy about the appeal. Couldn't hurt to ask CARB if they have an appeal process, and what it is.

one of the dozen reasons I moved out of state.


----------



## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

What is the most recent application that has been accepted? (So we can figure out if it's a blanket thing).


----------

