# Help with circuit for open source development



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Have you ever tested this concept? If you take a dyson and stick a bucket in the center I'm sure you'll find that while less air is flowing, it's moving much faster because it's not losing all its energy to the freeloading mass.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I want to try my concept. Not interested in reinventing Dyson gadgets. But to try it I need help with electronics please.

So anybody interested and with an unbiased objwctive view point or anybody who knows how to do it regardless of whether it seems futile. We don't know until we try it...


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

I think you are confusing gravity with magnetic forces. Gravity is an acceleration caused by the effect of mass on time, causing a curvature of space-time and resultant attraction between any matter that has mass. Magnetism is caused by the spin of electrons in alignment, and can be attractive or repulsive. The quantum mechanical models for these forces are based on the exchange of particles which may be photons or gravitons. But wave theory is generally a more convenient and practical way of characterizing and using these forces.

There is a lot of interest in the so-called "zero point energy" which derives from the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle which states that the position and momentum of a particle cannot both be known to an arbitrary precision, so the "quantum vacuum" has particle pairs spontaneously appearing and then recombining, but the net energy and mass remain unchanged. It takes a lot more than a few sentences to explain in depth, and I am not an expert, but I do not believe there is any way to tap into the gravitational "field" and obtain any useful energy.

But my expertise is power electronics, mostly high current up to about 100,000 amperes, and I also have some familiarity with high voltage AC and DC, but generally under 10,000 volts. I'm willing to give you some design guidance to produce such voltages from an energy source such as a car battery, but I'd need to know the details of what you want to try. It is relatively easier to produce high voltage DC, but the conversion involves AC to step up the voltage, and generally at high audio frequencies (20-100kHz). I would also need to know how much power you need, and what sort of load you will have. This involves resistance, capacitance, and inductance, and since you mention resonance it may be series or parallel and will have a "Q" factor which will determine the power losses. Once you can provide these specifications, it should be reasonably straightforward to design a working circuit.

Meanwhile, you may want to look into some ready made devices or kits which may provide what you need for high voltage:
http://www.amazing1.com/


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Paul. I will do some homework and post some initial targets. In one write-up a simple neon transformer or power supply was used at about 8000V and whatever frequency and the coil designed for a matching resonant frequency to get the desired effect.

I have a simple device to try this on small scale but may need guidance with calculations if that is ok.


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## bjfreeman (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes an inductor will return a Higher voltage but for same power delivered to the inductor minus the impedance.
This is know as the Q of an inductor.
to make it simple an inductor store Joules of energy then releases that same energy with different parameter of voltage, current and time.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Bump. Still looking at this. 

Forget my fanciful ambitions above. Can anybody help me design a circuit to use to test this out please? Or advise a company (preferably in the uk) who can do so for me please? 

Thanks in advance.


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## sergiu tofanel (Jan 13, 2014)

The reason airplanes fly and the Dyson fan works is due to air viscosity. For example, an airfoil cannot generate ANY lift in an inviscid fluid. 

Electric and magnetic fields are conservative because of the very fact that there are no shear terms in the EMF tensors. While I don't claim to quite grasp what exactly you are trying to do, you may want to reconsider the differences between the fluid mechanics and electromagnetism.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

I don't quite understand your comparison. And I'm not 100% sure of how or if it will work but it is claimed to and I would like to try. I understand in maybe layman terms how it should work so have an incling of hope.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> I don't quite understand your comparison. And I'm not 100% sure of how or if it will work but it is claimed to and I would like to try. I understand in maybe layman terms how it should work so have an incling of hope.


Not to point out the obvious here, but air is matter and thus is subject to the Newton's laws of motion and mechanics. Light and electricity, however, are forms of energy and therefore do not bounce into each other or cause vortices of turbulence whenever they interact. In other words, you can't use a high voltage source of electricity to drag along a lower-voltage source.

Stop wasting time trying to violate Maxwell's equations and get working on an EV or something...


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

What is all the talk about air for please? I'm not doing anything with air... I am trying to power my conversion with fairy dust...


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

PS, Maxwell didn't create Physics he only worked out an effective set of calculations for working with it. Doesn't mean he knew everything, so I'm open to the unknown and how it might benefit us.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

tylerwatts said:


> What is all the talk about air for please? I'm not doing anything with air... I am trying to power my conversion with fairy dust...


You wrote this:



tylerwatts said:


> ...The concept is thus:
> 
> Like when you take a fine jet of a fluid at high velocity and release it in a large volume of similar fluid, adjacent fluid is accelerated and travels along with the high velocity fluid. The resulting flow of fluid is a significant increase in volume and energy potential. An example of this is Dyson's bladeless 'fan' that moves air using a fine jet of air around an opening and drawing more air with it through the opening in the centre.
> 
> Similarly I believe if this is done with magnetic energy you get the same multiplication effect where more energy would flow through the core of the coil and be available for conversion to electrical energy.


And I just told you that electricity (energy) won't behave in the same fashion as air (matter), so your concept is bunk and any invention attempting to test it will be a total waste of time. 

As for why both me and sergiu referred to the behavior of air, quite simply that is because you yourself used the behavior of jets of air in the Dyson bladeless fan as an analogy for how your proposed device would work.

Now you are apparently upset at this and taking my humorous reference to Maxwell and his famous equations quite seriously which just underscores why it is a total loser's bet to participate in these kinds of threads.


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## Old.DSMer (May 18, 2012)

Tesseract said:


> ....In other words, you can't use a high voltage source of electricity to drag along a lower-voltage source.
> 
> Stop wasting time trying to violate Maxwell's equations and get working on an EV or something...





PStechPaul said:


> There is a lot of interest in the so-called "zero point energy" which derives from the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle which states that the position and momentum of a particle cannot both be known to an arbitrary precision, so the "quantum vacuum" has particle pairs spontaneously appearing and then recombining, but the net energy and mass remain unchanged. It takes a lot more than a few sentences to explain in depth, and I am not an expert, but I do not believe there is any way to tap into the gravitational "field" and obtain any useful energy.


Valid points IMHO. Having investigated some of this in the past, I suggest you study Tesla coil solid state drivers. There are many versions of this circuit which are tuned to resonance and achieve very high voltages.

I have my doubts of any practical implementation of zero point theories....but I am curious to see what you come up with  Also investigate the relationship between coils and capacitors and their use in energy transfer in modern switchmode power supplies.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Tesseract. I said those things in jest interpreting your words as light hearted humour. I apologise for any confusion. As I said that analogy I used was probably wrong but helped me understand the idea of this concept. 

Thanks Old.DSMer, I will look at those. 

Tesseract 

May I try explain a bit more what I'm attempting to achieve. We measure efficiency of all electric devices, and none are 100%. So what happens to the other waste energy? All current carrying media emit a magnet field, we rely on it to drive and EV... But for say a wire not driving something but emitting this magnetic field still, where does the energy go if not interacted with? 

Now look at atomic structures, electron pairs are stabilized by their magnetic interaction, so the environment, matter, anything with mass, can absorb magnetic energy with little effect and it just be inadvertently converted to a different form of energy. So the crux is that there is this naturally occurring waste energy all around us that simply normalises into the environment as it is not used. And energy isn't created or destroyed, but only converted. 

So now what I see this 'device' doing is focussing a polarity point in this 'ambient magnetic field' of waste energy and as such it generates an imbalance into which the energy rushes. Then by switching the polarity I create an alternating field which creates a transformer core into which I place secondary coils to convert the 'waste' energy into electrical energy. 

The resonant circuit on the primary side that is inducing this field is to minimise energy required to drive it and mean I only need a small power supply to harness the 'waste' energy for a large return. 

NOTE: there is no zero point energy. It has to convert from somewhere. I'm trying to harness a form of energy that is not practically useful in it's current state in the world/universe. Then guess what, when I use it to charge and or power I am converting it back into the waste energy and a few other more practical forms. 

So that's my plan. Does that sound totally outrageous?


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

In a word, yes.

I think you (and countless others) confuse the terms force, power, and energy. An electrostatic or magnetic field does not contain energy, but it does exert a force. And gravity also is a force, although more correctly it is an acceleration acting on mass which produces a force.

When there is relative motion of an object within a field _upon which it interacts_, there is work done and a change in the energy of that object. Energy can be absorbed and released by the massive objects that have been affected, and this is in the form of kinetic or potential energy. 

But the field itself (AAUI) does not contain energy, although it may have required energy for its creation, but perhaps only if there are appropriate objects within its sphere of influence that are acted upon. It may become more complicated when contemplated from a quantum mechanical viewpoint, where there exists the particle/wave duality, and fields may be interpreted as waves or exchanges of particles (photons and gravitons). 

It is very interesting to study the more esoteric concepts of matter and energy on a subatomic level using QED and QCD and other theories. Also look into QED_Vacuum and fluctuations that may be thought of as zero point energy. The mathematics and abstract concepts are rather beyond my full comprehension, but I like to look at these from a philosophical and perhaps philosophical (or even spiritual) viewpoint. And I have confidence in the superior intellect of those giants of Physics who conceived these theories and are continuing to fine tune them to match the observations of our universe, and push the boundaries by making predictions that may eventually be confirmed by experiment. A major example is the recent confirmation of the Higgs Boson.

I admire your tenacity and energy to build some sort of apparatus to test your theory (or that which you have learned about), and perhaps it is worthwhile as a learning experiment. But do be careful when dealing with high voltage, high frequency, inductors, and resonance. It is very easy to produce extremely high voltages that will increase quickly until they cause ionization and breakdown of insulation and dangerous arcs, as well as X-rays and other possibly more subtle but damaging radiation.

[edit] PS, one way to think about the "energy" in a magnetic field is to consider that an electromagnet exerts a huge force, yet the power required is only that which is needed to maintain the current through the resistance of the conductors. Even when first creating the magnetic field by applying voltage to the coil (which is mostly inductive), the current is at quadrature to the voltage, and no power is required other than that dictated by the resistive losses in the conductors and the efficiency of the power supply. And there are superconducting electromagnets that produce huge magnetic fields but yet consume no power (except the cooling apparatus required to maintain the low temperature). By simple inference, one may compare this to permanent magnets, in which the magnetic domains operate also like superconducting coils with rotating electrons. Essentially, at the atomic and subatomic level, perpetual motion does exist, but like the mechanical contrivances presented as macroscopic examples of PM, no energy can be extracted without changing the potential energy of the device. And when such a device is operated under terrestrial conditions, there are always "energy leaks" that eventually cause the motion to stop, although sometimes subtle energy sources can counteract friction and other losses to maintain motion indefinitely.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Paul. You touch on another point I hoped to experiment with, converting strong magnetic fields to potential electric energy. This says that there are these forms that are not harnessed currently by man and thus are effectively free to use by those who learn how to. That is until a corporation or government decides it has a write to legislate and charge for that energy...


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

http://hopegirl2012.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/opensourced-latest-discoveries-in-qeg-technology/

Well some credit to my intent with this project. I'm just hoping to demonstrate this at a smaller scale and for mobile use. I might find I need to ground the system for it to work but will have to see.


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