# "Good OHM'n"... here we go...



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yesterday, I made this adaptor from 6061 Al plate. Damn that's a lot of jig sawin'! I didn't want to bug the guys at work, so I did it the hard way... It worked out pretty good. I also cut the pilot end off of the tranny input shaft. Plate was a freebee...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

While I was looking around for a good donor vehicle, I decided to go shopping for a good usable lift truck motor. I found this little gem at a local lift truck sales and service shop that my company deals with on occasion. It started off looking pretty bad.. but it got better, eventually.. lol Big thanks to Jim Husted of Hi Torque Electric for the heads up on what's good and what isn't. If you need help with motor selection.. this is your guy.

I decided to cut off this big honkin' secondary motor mount (it must have weighed 6 or 7 lbs!)  
Then I turned the barrel on a lathe to clean it up for a nice new paint job.  Oh, I decided to drill and tap some motor mount holes between the field windings, for later.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok, so I kept going on the motor rebuild. I basically stripped it down to base components. Gave the field coils a bath and dried them out in the oven (Jim is right about the wife... wasn't good lol) and re-coated them.

The commutator wasn't really grooved too bad, but decided to give it a face lift too.

The drive and aux shafts were both splined so I had them turned and keyed for split taper lock bushings. It's no problem turning these with carbide cutters.

Here is the barrel with the re-coated field coils back in and new stainless steel fasteners to keep the rust away....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Make sure you check the brush plate for cracks and loose brush holders. It's a very common problem apparently (I wouldn't know, it's my first one!) I did find one odd-ball brush spring though and replaced it. I was going to replace the whole set, but at $16 each, I opted for just the one. Jim figured it would be fine if the rest had decent and similar force. If u look at the close up of the one spring, u will see it is larger and is installed inverted on the holder. 

I turned the DE plate just to clean it up and bought new bearings and a seal. ( really don't think I need the seal, but changed it anyways) Cost = $28. I had to buy another puller too, but I usually don't consider tools part of the job. It was $15 at a surplus store.

If you look close, you will see that I re-drilled the case for a 10 degree brush timing advance. This should suit a 144 volt application. Since I am still pondering 156 volt pack, I decided to also slot the BE mounting holes. This will give me another 3 degrees of advancement if I decide to go with the higher voltage. I just tried to upload an ACAD dwg.. lmao Here u can see a hard copy on the table. I can make a pdf if anyone is interested. It was just a quick and dirty way to get the distances I need for the right angle based on the bolt pattern circle diameter.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I ran the motor last night from a single 12V battery. I let it run for an hour or so, to seat in the new brushes (geez those are expensive little devils). I just have to finish cleaning up the rusty, bent and broken bands (vent screen thingys) and I will take a couple pics of the finished motor.

Tomorrow I will pick up my taper mount drive gear that I will use for the coupler. I wanted to use the clutch center (all but the discs) but looks like I will just salvage the centre hub. There will be a little machining and welding required. (good thing I'm a journeyman welder! .. even if I hardly ever do it anymore)


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

My split bushing and sprocket came in yesterday afternoon. I had an QD bushing but decided to move up to the heavier Martin SD three bolt split bushing and bought the matching sprocket just to save some machining. The pair were only $56. This is a pic of the sprocket and bushing together as well as the hub and other matching piece from the clutch.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Turned the spocket down to about 4". I should have bought a smaller diameter... but was planning to use the springs and center out of the clutch. This should work out ok though.

Oh,.. this is Bailey... the only one around the house who doesn't think I'm crazy!  lmao..


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I decided to make up a little alignment shaft to keep these parts in the right place when I weld them together. . . which will hopefully be tonight. I think I will get this unit spin balanced as well to ensure there is no vibration at higher rpm as well as early bearing failure.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Here is the coupler all welded up. The stubby shaft kept everything lined up nicely and in place as you can see from the in-line pic. I'll see if I can get it balanced today.. I added the before pic so you could see what I trimmed down.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

looks great so far! While it would certainly be more work, I wish I had more fabrication skills. I'd probably be further along! At least you'll be satisfied in the end that you did it ALL yourself. and uh, it does validate the user name...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> looks great so far! While it would certainly be more work, I wish I had more fabrication skills. I'd probably be further along! At least you'll be satisfied in the end that you did it ALL yourself. and uh, it does validate the user name...


Thanks very much PatricioIN. I just started reviewing your web page... really nice documentation! I wish I was better at that part. Sometimes I make things without even doing any prep or dwgs. argh! I have to get better at this part. The main reason for doing as much as possible myself is because I get a kick out of it. Ya, maybe I'm cheap.. but more likely because I was raised on a farm and learned to fix things and make things with whatever you have. 
Looking fwd to finish reviewing the rest of your web page.

Cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So... today I wanted to finish up the motor and snap some pics. I finished buffing the rust off screen bands and gently tapping out the bends and dings till they looked reasonably straight. A couple of coats of paint and two SS fasteners I bought while out last time and now she looks like a motor! 

Total cost in the motor.... lets see $28 for bearings and a seal, $140 for brushes (OEM) and $16 for a new spring. Some paint and insulation spray, SS fasteners about... $220.00 total. The machining was free, at work. I didn't pay anything for the motor. I may end up paying for it.. not sure. We agreed on $150 but I suggested they may want to sponsor me and I would put some modest advertising on the truck. He said to keep going and we'll discuss when I am ready to order batteries as I can order through him. I don't want to turn the truck into a billboard.. but if they make it worth while.. I'll cart their name around.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

amazing... at a $1200 savings over my $1400 8" advanced dc motor.. maybe I will LEARN to do some of this stuff.. hmmm


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> amazing... at a $1200 savings over my $1400 8" advanced dc motor.. maybe I will LEARN to do some of this stuff.. hmmm


BTW, thanks for the lead on the chrome letters. Real nice. I will be after some of those!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

This is what the motor looked like in the lift truck when I first found it... and then after some degreasing... but still in the lift.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

WOW!!  You're doing an awesome job!! I'm totally impressed by your DIYguy skills!!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> WOW!!  You're doing an awesome job!! I'm totally impressed by your DIYguy skills!!


Hey thanks tj4fa. I'm just figuring it out as I go. hockey training this morning and a game a 3 this aft. Plus I have to hang a door and make some kind of wood cover for inside a cabinet today...so, won't get too much done. I'm leaving for Lake Placid on Thursday early with my son's hockey team for a Can-Am Tournament for 4 days also. Should be a great time! The kids stuff comes first. . . but I'm thankful to have such a great hobby to fit in when I can. This site has been my inspiration. Thanks again.

Cheers.


----------



## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

Good work on the motor and adapters . What size motor is that ? All looks good ! J.W.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ww321q said:


> Good work on the motor and adapters . What size motor is that ? All looks good ! J.W.


Hey thanks man. The comment really do help to keep me going. Its a hyster motor. They call it a 9.25". Its about 17" long as I recall. I suspect it is comparable to a warp 9. . But I'm not an expert on motors, so maybe its more hope than anything. At's damn heavy I know that! Lol. 

Cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Just waiting for my coupler to come back from balancing. In the mean time, I will look for a manual steering box today. I'm off to a hockey tournament for 4 days so,.. no progress this weekend. Did some power washing under the hood to get rid of some grease and grime. When I see the pics of car unbodies and frames of trucks from southern USA that look like new.... I'm very envious. Winter road salt takes it's toll up here in Canada, at least in this area. Have to service the Dakota ICE today for before the 7 hour trek to Lake Placid tomorrow am.

Cheers.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Just waiting for my coupler to come back from balancing. In the mean time, I will look for a manual steering box today. I'm off to a hockey tournament for 4 days so,.. no progress this weekend. Did some power washing under the hood to get rid of some grease and grime. When I see the pics of car unbodies and frames of trucks from southern USA that look like new.... I'm very envious. Winter road salt takes it's toll up here in Canada, at least in this area. Have to service the Dakota ICE today for before the 7 hour trek to Lake Placid tomorrow am.
> 
> Cheers.


I got a real good warrantied used one from Everdrive.com for my '91 Ranger. It was like new.

And I took and used some Ospho (rust neutralizer) on the surface rust of my frame and then used cold galv spray paint on it. I overcoated it all with bed liner spray but that was a mistake. The bed liner spray paint doesn't like to stick to the zinc coating and has peeled off in some places.

I should have just topped it off with some Rustoleam spray paint.

For more more severe rust, there's a few products Like POR-15 that can be applied over rust to keep it from getting worse.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Looking good, DIYguy!

I'm really curious to see how that forklift motor works. I was considering one that I think was identical. Still not decided yet.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> I got a real good warrantied used one from Everdrive.com for my '91 Ranger. It was like new.
> 
> And I took and used some Ospho (rust neutralizer) on the surface rust of my frame and then used cold galv spray paint on it. I overcoated it all with bed liner spray but that was a mistake. The bed liner spray paint doesn't like to stick to the zinc coating and has peeled off in some places.
> 
> ...


Ya. I haven't dug into the frame issue to much yet. although I did ask and get this tip.... see below....from TX_Dj. I think he did a great job. Check out his pics too.

Originally Posted by *DIYguy* 
_Hey TX_Dj,

Just wondering what you used to remove the rust from your frame. Also, what paint did you use? Are you planning to coat the inside of the frame at all?

Your frame was made in the plant that I have worked in for the last 25 years. It is located in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. It was all welded manually. It originally came with a frame coating called hot-melt-wax. This is a combination of wax and paint mixed. There were variants of this process including a high temp one.

Regards,
Gary_
Hey Gary.

That's interesting! I knew it had "something" on it, but not much of the original coating was left. I suspect the kid who owned the truck before me liked to do a lot of off-roading and water-crossing with it, and it appears it got stuck in deep sand for a period of time, partially submerged at least to the frame.

The hot-melt comes off very easily with the degreaser I use, and for a while I thought it was just a dry grease of some sort.

In the spots where corrosion got past the hot-melt stuff, it was just a light surface rust. I used a combination of an abrasive wheel (the stuff that's like a scotch-brite pad on steroids) which basically tears it back to a shine immediately, and a wire wheel. The pics on my site don't really do justice, since I botched the paint the first time around and had to re-strip it... that's when I started using the abrasive pads. Didn't get any pics of it with it super shiny silver, but the paint really doesn't care so long as it has a good surface to "bite".

The paint I'm using is called KBS RustSeal. I recommend it, but it's an isocyanate based urethane. If you spray it you *must* have a positive displacement helmet and a fully sealed "bunny suit". I opted to brush on, so I used a good sealed pair of goggles and a decent respirator, changing the cartridges regularly since the isocyanate is odorless you can't tell when the cartridges are "full" (part of why NIOSH says only use the positive-displacement type). It is incredibly resilient stuff. The only thing that will take it off with momentary incidental contact is methylene chloride. Even brake fluid has a minimal affect on it.

I don't recommend their "KBS BlackTop" chassis coat. This is the stuff that "botched" the paint job the first time. They claim it was because of an error in the factory where it didn't get thinned enough, which may be true- but I didn't like the look of it compared to the semi-gloss RustSeal.

It goes on pretty thick (2-4 mil) but self-levels rapidly. It will sag if too thin for conditions, but have never seen it orange-peel.

I am not coating the inside of the chassis, like I said earlier it was just a mild surface rust, and I'm only going thru the trouble because I want the truck to look like it should for a vehicle with as much invested as I will be investing in the conversion. It looks GREAT, though... it's pretty hard to tell at a glance that it was a brush-on application.

Since the final re-painting, I did glob up all my excess paint on a 1" brush and shove it thru every hole that you can see rust on the inside of the frame, and that has helped it to look a lot better thru the holes.

Anyhow, I'm rambling.  Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Looking good, DIYguy!
> 
> I'm really curious to see how that forklift motor works. I was considering one that I think was identical. Still not decided yet.


Thanks David. I'm curious also! lol. It seems to be the right size and Jim Husted says it should work well. Thats good enough for me!

G


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I did a time-temp test to better understand and quantify the temp rise of the motor. I noticed while running the motor that the output shaft was heating up a bit. I think, after going through that exercise, that the results are normal...however I'm no authority on this topic. Details can be seen here.... 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/motor-test-24191.html


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

After returning from my son's hockey tournament (4 days in Lake Placid ) I picked up my coupler from balancing. It cost me $50 cash and most of his time was spend making up the shafting, collar and key etc. for the balance machine and coupler mount. He just ground off material to balance. It was spun up to 4000 RPM and he figures it is within 0.0005" of true centre. There are a few pics of it below shown mounted on the motor. The last one shows one of the screws in the "jacking hole" demonstrating sufficient room to break the coupler apart for removal. There is room in the bearing cavity to start this screw and thread it in.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yesterday I picked up this manual steering box. I found 3 of them locally. one for $100, one for $75 and one for $50. I bought the one for $75 because it saved me 45 minutes of driving. It is out of a 1996 Ranger. Should work ok, and has the pitman arm on it too. May have to change that, haven't looked yet. Will put it on this W/E if all goes well.

I also came up with a little different idea for my motor to trans spacers. I was working on one method but changed gears (pun intended). I'll take a couple pics tomorrow if I get to it. Still have some drilling/tapping to do.

Cheers.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

The really strange thing is that when I was looking online for a powersteering box for my F250 (ranger up to F350 trucks use the same steering gear), I found that the manual steering box was not only rare and hard to find, but bloody expensive too, much more than a powersteering box. Glad you were able to find one so easily. I'm curious to know how many turns there are lock to lock. 

We have 3 older ford trucks and all of them are 4 turns lock to lock. All with powersteering.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> The really strange thing is that when I was looking online for a powersteering box for my F250 (ranger up to F350 trucks use the same steering gear), I found that the manual steering box was not only rare and hard to find, but bloody expensive too, much more than a powersteering box. Glad you were able to find one so easily. I'm curious to know how many turns there are lock to lock.
> 
> We have 3 older ford trucks and all of them are 4 turns lock to lock. All with powersteering.


I didn't realize the F series used the same box as the Ranger. I heard they were extremely rare on F series, likely due to it's size/weight. They all said that there was no box listed for the Mazda, but only the Ranger. I think the price is set based on availability. You can usually barter with them if you find more than one. I will check the turns ratio and post it if it is of some help.... I can do that without installing it I'm sure. 

I offered them my power box and pump...but they weren't interested...


----------



## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

david85 said:


> The really strange thing is that when I was looking online for a powersteering box for my F250 (ranger up to F350 trucks use the same steering gear), I found that the manual steering box was not only rare and hard to find, but bloody expensive too, much more than a powersteering box. Glad you were able to find one so easily. I'm curious to know how many turns there are lock to lock.
> 
> We have 3 older ford trucks and all of them are 4 turns lock to lock. All with powersteering.


I found them hard to find also, finally found one on Ebay for 75.00. I asked at the dealer and they told me they could order one..750.00 
I think it is 4 turns stop to stop.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa suggested Everdrive.com. Looks pretty good at $122 (for 97 Ranger) with a 3 year warranty. Of course for us Canadians, we have to throw in exchange, shipping and possibly some duty charges.

The other thing I was thinking, ... the turns ratio is one element of the mechanical advantage, the other (just comparing boxes) is the length of the pitman arm. One would also have to make sure of range of motion on output shaft (or pitman arm) if going with a non-oem set up so as to not affect turning radius.

Cheers.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

The one elevatorguy got looks pretty familiar to my Ranger manual box. It did come with the pitman arm and bolted right up. 

I didn't have to make any front end alignments or anything as compared to the original PS box I took out.

I'll have to see how many turns lock-to-lock it is and get back with you.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So... I spent some time yesterday working on my tranny to adaptor spacer arrangement. I had 5 Aluminum rectuangular blocks machined at my work. I decided that this was easier and lighter than full, solid spacers. These came out very good and were within 0.0003" of each other and parallel. I drilled and tapped holes in them and layed them out on the adaptor. See pics. I used all Stainless Steel fasteners. Just so you know, the holes you see in the top of the blocks are from the pilot holes only. These were used to "transfer" the position of the blocks to the plate. The actual fasteners are 5/16-18 with flat and lock washers.

edit.... the blocks are exactly 2". Also, for rotational rigidity... I put two of the blocks right up tight to the through-bolts. This will ensure that the drive torque is contained.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Today, I was anxious to join the motor and trans together and make it go 'round and 'round.  So.... I did just that. It fit like a glove slipped together perfectly, bolter er up and turned on the juice. She purrs like a kitten.  I still have to split it apart to take it up into the garage as this is in my "wood shop"  in my basement. Too darn heavy to haul up in one piece.

I will shear a strip of stainless steel sheet material and make a cover band to go over and around the spacers. It will look solid but be much lighter and sealed up to keep the road debris outta there!


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Great progress! Must be nice to have access to a full machine shop. Glad you added the note about placing two of the Al blocks adjacent to the through bolts. I was concerned about torque rotating the motor relative to the adapter. 

You continue to impress with your progress! You're showing us all how it should be done.

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

gosh.... thanks Rob. I'm humbled.  Just chipping away in the ole' workshop.  Just figuring it out as I go.... 

Like you, my priorities are my kids (mega-sports lol) and family. This stuff is fun and fills in the gaps nicely. 

Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> The really strange thing is that when I was looking online for a powersteering box for my F250 (ranger up to F350 trucks use the same steering gear), I found that the manual steering box was not only rare and hard to find, but bloody expensive too, much more than a powersteering box. Glad you were able to find one so easily. I'm curious to know how many turns there are lock to lock.
> 
> We have 3 older ford trucks and all of them are 4 turns lock to lock. All with powersteering.


David,

I checked the box today and found that it is just over 6 turns lock to lock. This should make it pretty easy to turn I would think.

Cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Just wanted to post a pic of the trans to motor adaptor bolt location WRT the spacer block. This shows it pretty good I think.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Another tip for you DIY... if you have access to some old DC weld power supplies you can swipe the meter and shunt out of them. Typically you will need to get at one the more industrial model that have a higher current rating. I got this Hoyt out of an old Hobart Mega-Mig 650. Scale goes to 800, but hey, thats ok. I may put an LED in it for dash light.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

DIYguy said:


> David,
> 
> I checked the box today and found that it is just over 6 turns lock to lock. This should make it pretty easy to turn I would think.
> 
> Cheers.


That will make a big difference. My saturn SL1 donor has no powersteering and is 4 turns lock to lock, but that car is less than 2300 lbs empty.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Busy weekend, didn't get much time to work on the EV. Swimming competition Fri, Sat, Sun for my one daughter and of course lots of hockey for my son. I did manage to get the SS band around the adaptor on Saturday.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunday afternoon I had enough time to get a bit of ICE weight out of the truck. The gas tank was a real bear to remove. argh!

I was going to install the manual steering box also. I removed the power box but when I was cleaning up the manual box I found that it had some play in it as well as not being smooth through out the rotation. I will return it tomorrow. I know where there are two others. 

The worst part is the greasy grime left behind by the ICE. It makes a heck of a mess. I did some power washing in the drive way but bits of grease remained everywhere. Now I am using some degreaser with a paint brush and rags underneath. I would love to have the truck at my work and use the dry ice (CO2) shot blaster. It's an awesome process. The dry ice sublimates after impinging the surface to remove all kinds of debris. We use it to clean robotic and manual weld cells and tooling etc.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

You gave me flashbacks. Pulling the midship tank from a ranger is not something I would wish on my enemy. Just be glad there wasn't a skidplate to deal with.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I only had to jack the axle two feet off the floor. It was obviously installed before the box eh?... with all those nice connections on the top. 

I was almost set to cut out the mid-frame x-mbr... what a treat. Oh well, got a couple gallons of gas out of it...lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, it's cleaning time... I've just been doing general restoration of the truck lately. I'm planning on painting the frame and re-doing the brakes and wheel bearings etc. Here are some pics... It was pretty disgusting after sitting for a while. I pulled the inner and outer fenders off as well as bumper, air dam and grill to get at some rusted spots. The areas that weren't rusty, were covered in oil gunk.... pretty messy all around.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Cleaning up the brake caliper and re-coating with KBS Rustseal. New Pads installed...


----------



## glenn.225 (Jan 2, 2009)

DIYguy

Nice job so far.
I'm new to site but have been thinking about doing a conversion myself for a while.

Was browsing through the wiki here looking at registration requirements but did not see anthing about Ontario, noticed you live in Kitchener, did you check this out with MOT and your insurance or are you just hoping for the best. 

I have an a 82 Jeep CJ7 that has been "modded" a little (well maybe a lot) and it's a pain for insurance and the Cops have checked it out a couple of times. 

So I wanted to know if an EV conversion was going to be a big deal also?

Thanks 
Glenn
Kingston, On


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Glenn, welcome to the forum.

Nice to see another canadian here.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

It looks a little better with some of the rust off and sealed up with KBS paint.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

glenn.225 said:


> DIYguy
> 
> Nice job so far.
> I'm new to site but have been thinking about doing a conversion myself for a while.
> ...


Hey Glenn,

Hey thanks. I haven't done too much research other than looking into incentives with the government. I'm not too worried about getting it on the road. I know most of the requirements for a safety.... it will be hard to deny it. I may get some run-around.. but I like a good battle...  Insurance may be a bit more of a struggle, but I think it is just a matter of finding the right company. 

I've done a fair bit of 4-wheelin and moddin them over the years also. I had a lot of fun with my old CJ. Cops get hung up on wheels that stick out past body work and stuff like that. There are some rules on it. Is that what they were looking at? Or was it body lift/suspension lift?

Either way... it won't stop me. I guess u could say, I'm just hoping for the best... lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

New rotors, shocks (custom colour) and lots grinding/buffing/painting 
Cleaned and re-packed the wheelbearings. Top end parts. Nice pads...they actually slide in stainless steel trays.... The calipers are double piston too... more than I expected for a small truck.

This Blackberry takes crapy pictures...


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Looking clean. I didn't know dual piston calipers were available on rangers of that era. Should work nicely with the extra weight.

SS trays.... you mean rotors?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Looking clean. I didn't know dual piston calipers were available on rangers of that era. Should work nicely with the extra weight.
> 
> SS trays.... you mean rotors?


Thanks...no the pads actually came with stamped sheet SS trays for the pads to slide (equalize) in. I never saw this before.... I can take a (crappy) pic if u like...

G


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Guess why the lower shock mount (bolt) looks so new..... because it is! I twisted the original right off right where the threaded part steps up to the shock mound stud size. So... I welded a threaded extention on.... ground it down and ran a thread die over it.... looks like new. A little long though... need to cut off the extra weight...lol


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Why did the bolt break? Was it badly rusted?

Thats impressive if you were able to repair the bolt, but getting a new one doesn't really cost that much.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Why did the bolt break? Was it badly rusted?
> 
> Thats impressive if you were able to repair the bolt, but getting a new one doesn't really cost that much.


LMAO.... ok. Ya, the shock mount nut was seized. It's not really a bolt. The lower shock mount is a cold formed, stepped stud that is projection welded (or perhaps puddle welded... will find that when I clean up the inside frame rail) to the frame rail. I could have cut this one off, machined a new one and welded (or bolted) it back on, but this was easier.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

OK I get it. I thought it was a nut and bolt setup that broke. On my F150 and F250, the radius arm has a bracket on top and then a regular bolt attaches the lower end of the shock to the bracket that is in turn bolted to the top of the arm. Everything is taller, so there is room for the shock to fit on top of the radius arm.

I've never worked on a 2wd twin I beam ranger front end though (only 4wd) so I'm not familiar with how it's put together.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

This is a first twin I beam for me also. I never had a Ford before. It looks very rugged though... for a small truck. I've had quite a few 4x4's though. I currently have a 02 Dakota quad cab 4x4, 4.7 V8. It's been a good truck.

Where r u with Lithium David? 

Regards,
Gary


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

DIYguy said:


> This is a first twin I beam for me also. I never had a Ford before. It looks very rugged though... for a small truck. I've had quite a few 4x4's though. I currently have a 02 Dakota quad cab 4x4, 4.7 V8. It's been a good truck.
> 
> Where r u with Lithium David?
> 
> ...


I THINK my 144V battery is on the pacific somewhere at the moment. I'm waiting for confirmation from Emily in china. She will double check and get back to me in a day or so.

Twin I beam is actually the strongest mass produced independant suspension system ever made. Unless you have stamped plate beams, you will have hot forged I beams. They are more prone to tire wear problems if something is not strait though, and wheel camber is dependant on the position of the wheel as it travels up and down so spring height has to be exact. I do my own alignment and haven't had any problems with bad tire wear. I think the chevy crowd over exaggerated that problem LOL

My F250 actually has king pins and brass bushings on the front end instead of ball joints for the steering knuckle. Same basic parts as HD highway rigs, just scaled down. The F150 is with ball joints though (both trucks are 1986).

Ride quality is also quite good.

The 1st generation ranger is in effect just a scaled down F150. Very tough little truck.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> I THINK my 144V battery is on the pacific somewhere at the moment. I'm waiting for confirmation from Emily in china. She will double check and get back to me in a day or so. *Very Kewl. Good for you. Did u end up with a decent price?*
> 
> Twin I beam is actually the strongest mass produced independant suspension system ever made. Unless you have stamped plate beams, you will have hot forged I beams. *Yes, I didn't realize they were hot forged though...they look cast at a glance, interesting..forging can add a lot of toughness. *They are more prone to tire wear problems if something is not strait though, and wheel camber is dependant on the position of the wheel as it travels up and down so spring height has to be exact. I do my own alignment and haven't had any problems with bad tire wear. I think the chevy crowd over exaggerated that problem LOL
> 
> ...


*I think it will carry the battery load pretty well.* 

G


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Final price was about $16k USD for my 144V/200Ah setup. The same price I was always quoted for that battery. Seems the only pricing error that happened was the one for the 160Ah battery. Maybe it was an honest mistake after all...oh well

The pricing does certainly seem to be a fixed $/Wh regardless of AH rating.

I still have to see what sort of fees, taxes or other costs there will be before I can take delivery. Shipping to the port of vancouver was $300, having it trucked to our place will be on top of that.

I've been doing some prep work on the car over the holidays. I'm 99% sure the rust repair part is done.


----------



## glenn.225 (Jan 2, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Glenn,
> Hey thanks. I haven't done too much research other than looking into incentives with the government. I'm not too worried about getting it on the road. I know most of the requirements for a safety.... it will be hard to deny it. I may get some run-around.. but I like a good battle... Insurance may be a bit more of a struggle, but I think it is just a matter of finding the right company.
> I've done a fair bit of 4-wheelin and moddin them over the years also. I had a lot of fun with my old CJ. Cops get hung up on wheels that stick out past body work and stuff like that. There are some rules on it. Is that what they were looking at? Or was it body lift/suspension lift?
> Either way... it won't stop me. I guess u could say, I'm just hoping for the best... lol


DIYguy

Did you get any response on gov incentives?

On the CJ they didn't like the 33X12.5's throwing mud all over the place, can't say i blame them on that and the bumpers about 38 inches off the ground, although I was getting a good leg workout jumping into it all the time.

Glenn


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

glenn.225 said:


> DIYguy
> 
> Did you get any response on gov incentives?
> 
> ...


I have my notes at home in my EV binder (I'm at work)... I got a lot of run-around... but finally ended up with a phone number that was suppose to give me the final answer. I never ended up talking to anyone at that number. From what I recall, the only thing available right now, (which may be a bit of a fight) is a rebate on the taxes paid to convert. The argument would be over doing it yourself and submitting the component cost for tax rebate. 

I can dig it up for you if you like.

Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Tachometer stuff.....*

So.... I picked up this inductive Turk proximity sensor for my motor tach sensor. I plan to feed the controller for overspeed protect and my stock tach. Has anyone used an industrial sensor like this. It's low voltage and will work with 12 VDC. Oh yes, I do have a longer lead also.....

G


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Batteries...batteries...batteries.....*

ARGH!! !. I won't go through all the pain of what I want and what I can afford etc etc... I think I have finally made a decision... or perhaps it jumped in my lap. I would appreciate feedback/questions/comments good or bad.

I have found some AGM 140 AH UPS batteries for what I think will be a very good deal. It's not my first choice or even my second. These batteries were used to bridge power outage of 30 seconds for generator backup/cut in, 4 times a year. They still have 5 years on the warranty. I will get a copy of the load test. I can buy 15 of them for a song. I plan on running 14 of them for 168 volts. I MAY run 15 at 180 volts. It depends on how my battery layout in the truck goes. I will likely buy 15 or 16 to have a spare. Sorry, i don't have the picture anymore... I am getting another one and will post. 

If anyone is close enough to make shipping practical, I can get more of these. Let me know. 

G


----------



## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: Tachometer stuff.....*



DIYguy said:


> So.... I picked up this inductive Turk proximity sensor for my motor tach sensor. I plan to feed the controller for overspeed protect and my stock tach. Has anyone used an industrial sensor like this. It's low voltage and will work with 12 VDC. Oh yes, I do have a longer lead also.....
> 
> G


Looks just like the one I was going to use for my speed sensor, is that optical or magnetic? Mine are of the photo variety, may make a pulse wheel or reflective surface on the shaft itself, to be determined later.. If I ever get find time to work on it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

It's an inductive proximity. You just need to pass metal close to it. These sensors are used in manufacturing plants on automation.... the newer controls use low voltage sensors like this one. I will likely make or buy a small collar with two 180 degree opposed set screws sticking out a bit to mount on my aux shaft. That should do it.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

where did you get this sensor? is there a webpage we could look at info for it? I'm still trying to figure out how to get my tach working again


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey PatricioIN,

I got if from where I work. Turk sensors are available from industrial electrical suppliers. There are a number of brands out there that will work. There are quite a few brands...some that come to mind are Balluff, Turk, Allen Bradley, Seimens, Omron, Peppler-Fuchs....

You can get inductive prox's - used for sensing metallic objects. They generate an electric field and monitor the disturbance in this field. When threshold is met, switch is activateed

You can get capacitive prox's - used for sensing metallic or non-metallic objects. They monitor the variation of capacitance between the sensor and the object.

You can get different photo electric sensors - reflective or transmitter/receiver method.

Hope this helps. These are not the two dollar type of sensors though.


I can post the spec's and wiring dia. if you like....

Regards,
Gary


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

DIYguy said:


> I can post the spec's and wiring dia. if you like....
> 
> Regards,
> Gary


Actually I'm interested too.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Actually I'm interested too.


Ok, will try and get to it this evening. I have to get the model number off of it.... it's at home, and I'm not. 

G


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Prox details....*

This is the Turk proximity sensor I used. It's a short barrel, 8mm inductive PNP, DC with a 4-LED and a range of 2mm.

This is the data sheet..........

http://www.turck-usa.com/illustrations/S4669460 (sheet_1).pdf

This is the catalog page with pic....

http://www.turck-usa.com/illustrations/B1006_D21.pdf

and this is the wiring pin-out.....

http://www.turck-usa.com/illustrations/AP-PC.gif

I mocked up a quick mount on my motor to see how it will work. It's not final, but close. I will redo the bracket with a bit of heavier SS material. I think I will use a 90 degree connector as well to get the wire back in line a bit. I bought the 7/8" collar and drilled/tapped a hole on the other side. (I need 2 pulses per rev, I think! lol) Then I took 2 socket head SS cap screws and cut them down so they don't stick out too far. I may cut them down a bit more. They serve two functions, locking the collar on the shaft and sensor triggers. I will set the prox to one edge of the head though because I don't want a double pulse from each socket head (due to the hole). Here are a few pics...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*12/24 Volt fans....*

When I stopped to buy the collar for the speed sensor.. I came across these fans at Princess Auto. They are 6" dia and made in Germany. There was one with a price of $1.91 on it   and a bunch more at $19 something. I took two up to the till and sure enough she tried to charge me two different prices. They had 2 different SKU's on them, one was discontinued... lmao. They have the same spec sticker on them. I asked her nicely to call the manager..lol Got the two for $1.91 each..lmao...I don't know if I will use them... but I couldn't resist...


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

We don't have a princess auto on the island


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> We don't have a princess auto on the island


I heard that you got some massive flooding though...??? you miss it ok?


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

DIYguy said:


> I heard that you got some massive flooding though...??? you miss it ok?


Yeah, fine in my little corner on the north-east island. But saw the same national headlines as you. The lower mainland was hit the hardest.

We actually didn't get all that much snow compared to areas further south. Just the luck of the draw I guess. So when the rain started, there wasn't much problem with drainage where I am. We have mud in the driveway, thats about it.


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Nice progress on the tach sensor. Will Darius be able to use the signal from this proximity sensor to provide motor speed protection through his controller? That is the plan?

Will anxiously wait to hear that this setup will indeed drive your factory tach correctly! Will you need to modify the signal? 

I doubt that the sensor will be triggered on each "point" of the bolt head... interesting question though, maybe.

Again, I may be following your lead on this one. I hope to have Bryan provide overspeed protection based on a signal like this, and run my factory tach. 

You gotta love PA (Princess Auto, not Pennsylvania (though I hear its nice too))! I'm hoping to find a small centrifugal fan for force cooling of my motor. Centrifugal will handle higher static pressure. I've no idea how big it will need to be (cfm??), quite small (I hate unquantified terms like that).

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi Rob.

Yes, Darius will be providing overspeed protect on the 800 amp controller based on this signal... at least this is the plan. I don't yet know if I have to condition the signal or not for sure. Still work to do on this. But I'm chipping away at it.

Ya, for 5 bucks and an hours' work, I had that sensor installed... lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Tach sensor....*

So, I made a new bracket from stainless steel and found a 90 degree connector for the prox. That looks a little better. I used epoxy to bond the wire holder. It would be really cool if it actually works... lol


----------



## glenn.225 (Jan 2, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> I have my notes at home in my EV binder (I'm at work)... I got a lot of run-around... but finally ended up with a phone number that was suppose to give me the final answer. I never ended up talking to anyone at that number. From what I recall, the only thing available right now, (which may be a bit of a fight) is a rebate on the taxes paid to convert. The argument would be over doing it yourself and submitting the component cost for tax rebate.
> I can dig it up for you if you like.
> Gary


Gary 
Sorry about the delay been off-line for a while. (work and the Flu)
Anyway if you could dig it up it would be appreciated.
Glenn


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Glenn, I'll dig it up for you. Been away for a few days myself.

Cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got a note from Darius today. He has the 800 amp controller PCB layout finished. This unit has motor voltage and tach pulse interfaces. 

Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

glenn.225 said:


> Gary
> Sorry about the delay been off-line for a while. (work and the Flu)
> Anyway if you could dig it up it would be appreciated.
> Glenn


Hey Glenn, have a few quiet moments this morning so I brought my binder up from the basement. The link to the "Ontario Refunds and Rebates" info is; www.rev.gov.on.ca/english/refund/vpaf/index.html

On this page you will find a link to the form called 702 RST Guide. Read it very carefully because it talks about not qualifying hybrids and new/used vehicles. I called the number listed on the website above (which is the Ontario Ministry of Revenue) and got the run around and bounced to several ppl. Dont bother with this number. 

Finally, I got this number from a lady named "Joan" according to my notes;
905-433-6170 or toll free 888-285-7815.
This is the tax advisory office in Oshawa. 3rd floor of 
33 King St. West. L1H 8H5.

Good luck!

Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> SS trays.... you mean rotors?


This is what I was referring to David. Just doing the other side now....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Managed to get some more ICE stuff out of the truck today. Fuel lines and heat sheilds. Also, spent some time getting more gunk off the front frame members for paint.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got my brake parts reuilt for the driver side also. When I was cleaning the wheel bearings to install in the new rotor, I noticed the outboard one had left a lot of tiny shiny specs in the rag. This is the start of bearing deterioration. Need to pick up a new set. 

I actually painted the shocks blue. They are new, but the stock black paint is cheap and thin. I sanded them and sprayed them with Krylon blue to match my motor. 

That jointer hasn't seen any action for a while..lol


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Looking at that fuel pump and heat shields I already have the urge to blink really hard and try to dig chunks of sand and dirt out of my eyes. I'm sorry to say, I have spent a lot of time maintaining ICE powered vehicles.....one of many reasons I want an EV so badly.

To protect against rust, I would suggest a wax or oil based undercoating after paint. You can also get nearly pure wax undercoating that can be sprayed into door shells or other hollow body cavities in the truck. It gets soaked up by surface rust or dirt that is likely to be in those hard to reach places. It also never fully cures so it will creep into many of the seams and joints that paint cannot get to.

Bottom door edges and cab corners always take a beating on trucks like this. I usually spray some fluid film lubricant into the drain holes of all our vehicles to protect against rust that usually sets in right in the crimp joint itself.

Looking good though, you are way ahead of me


----------



## glenn.225 (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks Gary
I'll look into it.

Glenn


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Looking at that fuel pump and heat shields I already have the urge to blink really hard and try to dig chunks of sand and dirt out of my eyes. I'm sorry to say, I have spent a lot of time maintaining ICE powered vehicles.....one of many reasons I want an EV so badly.
> 
> To protect against rust, I would suggest a wax or oil based undercoating after paint. You can also get nearly pure wax undercoating that can be sprayed into door shells or other hollow body cavities in the truck. It gets soaked up by surface rust or dirt that is likely to be in those hard to reach places. It also never fully cures so it will creep into many of the seams and joints that paint cannot get to.
> 
> ...


Hey David,

I hear ya... I have always been a diy guy with cars also. I've always oiled my vehicles as well. I think though, after I get this frame coated, I will spray the inside of the frame where it is boxed in and the body panels that are closed... the rest I will just monitor. This KBS rustseal paint is really something else. It is not to be confused with tremco or any ordinary paint. Check out their website. 

The frame plant I have worked in for many years had several coating systems for frames. The oldest one was hot melt wax. This was paint mixed with wax. There are still a lot of frames out there coated with this stuff. It stays soft...but unfortunately doesn't adhear too well. There was a high temp version in later years also. We also had an enamel system which was poor for durability. We use to coat all the jeep frames with this. These show rust after 6 months on the road. The latest systems are Ecoat. This is a ten step imersion process including a zinc phosphate seal and electrostatic paint process that stands up quite well. We used this on the Envoy, Trailblazer, Bravada, SSR and whatever the SABB version of that was called. I've also seen a hot liquid wax fill of a frame in Austria. This was the Mercedes G-wagon (a civilianized army suv-like truck) that had the frame pumped full of wax then tipped up for drainage. We use to build the Mercedes AAV (ML320 and 450 before it became unibody) frame as well.... they wanted e-coat, but were too cheap to pay for it..lol (volume was kinda too low for investment).
OK, I think I am starting to ramble here...lol


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

As a wielder/fabricator I will always try to avoid woking with steel because of all the problems with rust protection. With aluminum, you have to clean it, and etch the material before powder coating, and you're done.

In reality the first stage with steel should be sand blasting because it comes from the mill so filthy already (mill scale is also a big problem).Then you can start the chemical prepping. But even the best paint systems out there cannot protect an open scratch from spreading corrosion across the part. Galvanizing is nice, but expensive. And once its gone it can't be repaired in the vehicle. Land Rover liked to use hot dipped galvanizing on thier vehicle chassis.

When you consider all the required prep work to get paint to stick to steel for the long haul, it actually ends up being more costly than aluminum. Every stone ship, or sharp edge is more than likely to allow rust to set in. I really hate steel when you consider what it takes to preserve it.

But for now I think I finally found an undercoating system that seems to work, so I will use every weapon in my arsenal to fight the rust.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I decided to rebuild the second manual steering box I bought. I returned the first one. I paid $50 for this one and it spins pretty fine... but had a little play in it. I couldn't leave it alone..so it's getting the full monty...lol I ordered seals and bearing for it today. $18 I think plus tax. I still have to get a bronze bushing out though... tomorrow if I can find the right puller. I don't have one that small. Strange why Mazda (Ford chasis) would use Toyo special bearings.... 

Most manual steering boxs like this one are simply a ball screw and nut on one axis and a rack and pinion on the other. The back side of the nut is actually the geared rack. The rack is ground on a slight angle so that adjustment may be made up and down to remove play. The ball screw is held by by a special open cage thrust ball bearing (some use tapered rollers) to both align and end load the screw as it takes load from two main directions.

Cheers....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I cleaned up the castings and pitman arm and gave them a coat of Rustseal. (David, you should check this stuff out...it is really something) I received my seals and bearings. The bushing was not available....it has a steel outer and a bronze inner which is reamed and has a grease grove. I bought the closest bronze bushing I could find. The inner diameter is correct, the outer is 1mm too large and the length is excessive. I will turn down the outer and press it in then cut off the excess. I had to cut the bushing to get it out. This box was not made to be rebuilt. One of the bearings was held in with an internal snap ring...without the little lobes with holes! Meant to go in ...and not out.. That was fun.. 
BTW, I had to use a hydraulic press to get the pitman arm off. I broke one puller, tried a bigger one, used heat (although just MAPP gas..all I had at home at the time) so I took it to work. BANG! off it came! lol


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

The pitman arm can be a real pain. I usually have to tighten the puller as hard as I dare and then tap the tightening bolt with a hammer. That usually gets it. Worst piece I ever had to pull was a king pin though. The shop press came in reall handy the SECOND time around LOL.

I've heard of a few differend rust paints. Rust bullet is also supposed to be good. I tend to be skeptical of claims from products that are supposed to stop rust, but paints have been getting better in recent years.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Ya, I did the puller/hammer thing.... about 6 times. I even used a pipe to extend leverage on the puller wrench and then used a 2 lb hammer on the end of the puller .... nada.. a real bear.

I took the bronze bushing and housing to work this morning. Turned it down on the lathe. Decided to part it to length, and pressed it in the housing. Worked like a dream...

Now I just have to put the whole box back together, set up the bearing preload and adjust the play out of it.... and give it one more coat of paint.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Finished the steering box last night.....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I got some small thermal switches from work off of junk welders. These are used to control the fan-on-demand so the cooling fan doesn't run all the time. I couldn't find any info on the part numbers...so, I decided to set up a little test to see at what temp they switch. I just took a piece of scrap metal, drilled and tapped two holes to mount the switches, then connect to battery and a load (cooling fan). I lit a small torch and adjusted the flame down low for a heat source and placed under the sensor mount. Then I took the infrared thermometer and checked the temp ...waiting for the fan to come on. I found out that a few of them were normally closed and opened upon heating... A couple are normally open and close at about 100F. They don't open though, until the temp comes back down to about 75F. That should work just fine for my cooling fans.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I decided to check the rpm on my motor at 12v and also at 24v to see what the RPM is. The only load is the tranny connected. At 12V it spun at 1225 rpm at 24 it spun at 2700. Would be nice to have a variac and chart a curve of RPM vs voltage. I'll have to see what I can come up with. Being a more a mechanical type... I don't have such goodies lying around. Any ideas on putting together something simple would be appreciated. 

Oh, I just had a brain wave... last year I made this puck shooting machine. The motors are DC (very old Hobart wire feed motors) and the controller has very large coil control... I think this might work.... I think I may have a spare... I'll take a pic for feedback.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Spoke to Darius at Electrocraft. My controller is coming along nicely. He received the printed circuit board back and is building it. He also got the Aluminum channel. He will build this 800 amp unit inverted as compared to the prior 500 amp unit...so... I will put my heat sinks on the "top" which is the other side of the aluminum that the IGBT's are mounted to. This should make for an efficient cooling system. I'll use my two fans I picked up for 1.91 each lol, and my little thermoswitches in series to power them. I got two heat sinks out of a welder that will fit just right. The controller base will be 12" X 7.5". 

cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

It's amazing how many parts you can salvage from old DC weld power supplies. I have a good selection of "junk" to pick from. I'm sure the right guy could even build a motor controller from these parts. The newer inverter welders have IGBT control as well. 

I got two heat sinks, each 5.5" x 7" that should work well for my controller cooling. I had to remove some electrical insulation and machine the backside flat as there was a section that was milled flat for IGBT mounting. I mounted one of my fans on one of them by drilling and tapping a couple of holes. There should be just enough room between them for my thermal switch mounting on the controller base. I have a bit of Al plate left and was going to mount these heat sinks on a slab about 5/8" thick....but I think cooling efficiency is more directly related to surface area for cooling as opposed to mass. A thick piece will absorb some energy, but once it hits temp rise...it wont disipate the heat well. Surface area AKA sinks, do this well. So... I think I will just mount these on the controller base...which is already about 1/2" thick in total.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

You went above and beyond with that steering box! Gotta love having access to a machine shop.

Its nice to see custom controllers like this comming to fruition. Does Darius plan to mass produce your model, or is it strictly a one-off?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks David. Darius hand builds all his units. He will build one for anyone who wants to pay for it. He was planning the higher power model for a while...he just needed some daredevil to order one.  lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Looks like I will be picking up my batteries in about 2 weeks. They aren't my first choice or even my second...but I guess they will do for a first timer. I do like somethings about VRLA..... but the energy density really sucks.. Oh well, the truck can haul 'em. 

I found these (see pics) from a large UPS application. They get cycled for 30 seconds - 4 times a year. There is still 5 years left on the warranty. They come with a load test. They are 140 Ah and weigh in at about 100 lbs ea. I will install 15 of them in my truck for a 180 volt pack... and buy a spare or two. If I buy 20, I can get them for $50 each. Anything less will cost me $55. It's not a big investment and ok for a start.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I was getting antsy so.... I just had to mount my heat sinks to something.  It will be a better way to mount the controller too....
C'mon, I have to justify it somehow!  lol

8" x 13" x 1/2" thick Al plate. Cuts like butter on my table saw with a carbide blade. Hard maple is harder to cut..

It's just a "test run" anyhow....need heat transfer paste and a few details. Waiting for mount hole dims from Darius.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Been chipping away at the engine (motor) bay. Cleaning and painting that frame is not a nice job. Wherever there isn't oily goop, there is rust. I managed to get some sections painted. Also installed that darn manual steering box finally. That was about the easies job of all. I left the cotter pin out of the pitman arm hex nut though... as the rubber boot has a tear in it. I hope I can buy a separate boot. This inner tie rod is about 4 ft. long.  Anyone know?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I removed the tranny x-mbr also. It was very goopy... cleaned er up and give er a coat of lipstick. 

I had to cut both bolts off  at frame mounts. There is an inner sleeve inside the rubber bushing and u cant get to it to heat it or anything... unless u destroy the bushings... so, I just cut the bolts. Thats the easiest to replace.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Received a msg from Darius (Electrocraft) last evening. He has my circuit board stuffed and tested out ok. He wants me to bring my heat sink down this week so he can mount it all up. He did end up building the controller as discussed.. "up-side-down" if u will, the IGBT's and circuit board will be mounted directly to the Al plate attached directly to my heat sink. This should work real well. He was just waiting for the sheet metal which is in the S/M shop now. I guess the firmware will be next for what I want. I'll see if I can snap a pic or two when I go, . . . might be on Thursday... we'll see. (girls swimming competition this weekend.....


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

This is all looking great.. What is your projected timeline for being able to start driving this sucker? You should find someone with a video camera to go with you on the first test drive!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> This is all looking great.. What is your projected timeline for being able to start driving this sucker? You should find someone with a video camera to go with you on the first test drive!


Hey Pat, thanks man. It's nice to get some feedback here and there. You are always surfin and pumpin people up.  When I started this thing, my goal was to be able to drive it in the "spring". I don't have any more specific goal than that. (I have three kids, two girls in competitive swimming and boy in rep hockey.) 
I will say that the refurb of the truck is more time consuming than the conversion though. I just don't want to finish the conversion in a very short period of time and have a crappy looking ride. I like to open the hood and feel good about what's in there..rusty frame looks like crap.... not to mention that I know the state of all components from brakes to gear box's and differentials, wheel bearings etc. It's fine to tear through a job, but what do you have at the end of it. I do have a video camera, so shouldn't be a problem to get some clips.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I visited Darius last week and took down my heat sink/fan unit. He will mount it for me since it will be screwed from inside the controller. Board looks nice..

We had a discussion about voltage capability. Darius told me that the IGBT's are rated at 600 volts. He says that it's needed to protect for spikes and that a high voltage spike can peirce one of these little puppies in a nano-second. He was very comfortable though, with the application of this controller up to 250 volts and said that it would likely handle 300 volts without any problem. (This is an example of the marketing I spoke of before). Interesting. I think that the controller I ordered would be called a 1000 amp/300 volt unit if made and marketed by some other firms.... just an opinion... but, probably not far off. 
​


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Made some new spacers tubes on the lathe for my tranny x-mbr and got some new bolts for it as well. Staked them in as well.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Breaker.....*

Im still trying to decide what to do for a main breaker. With my pack voltage now likely going to be 192... I'm not so sure about using a 160volt breaker... Thoughts? Suggestions?

I also have a couple 150volt/800 amp bus fuses. I think I will try these... nothing to loose there.

I think the Kilovac contactor is pretty much a no brainer. Been snoopin round the shop for suitable precharge resistor also. Darius figures 1K ohm, 20 watt would be plenty. 

As soon as I get some more of that front frame painted, I will drop in the motor/tranny....that's all I'm waiting for. It's slow going. I rolled some flat bar for the motor mount ring... but that's all till I get it in place to see what I need.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I decided to make a fuse holder. I have a 3 phase fuse holder backplane ... and am thinking of slicing a piece out of it for the fuse holder base and use the fuse connectors to mount the fuse on.....

Now, I'm thinking maybe I will use this board to mount my electrical devices on and use as a backplane inside my high power box. Before I can determine this, I will need to get the rest of my goodies to see how much room I need. Either way, I think I will set this on the shelf for now and not butcher it. Either way, I can at least ge a fuse holder out of this. It is a good insulation board.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tonight I spent some time and made up a motor mount main ring. I rolled some flat bar a while ago and decided to massage it into something that I can tie into my ICE mounts. SS hardware as well. Should do the trick. I just want to tack weld the nuts on the backside of the lower mount before I paint it. 

What colour do you think? Blue like the motor? Silver like the bands? or Black like the rest of the frame and mounts??

Gary


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Looking good for a salvage motor! Is the 3/16 X 2 inch flat? It looks like the top bolt must thread into the motor to handle the torque load. Is this the case?

FWIW, my vote is for a matching silver paint. I've never used a silver paint that would harden up as well as other colours though.

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi Rob. Yes, u have a good eye for HRS. I did bolt it to the motor barrel. When I rebuilt the motor, I tapped three holes ... between the field coils specifically for this. I will use one on the top and one on the bottom. 

Ur right about the silver paint too. I think I will give it a couple of coats of the black rust seal and then spray it with the silver stuff. Maybe I should try a coat of clear over the silver??? I sprayed the motor aluminum CE casting with clear coat after cleaning it up, to keep it from turning too dark.

I know u've been busy with work...don't sweat it... that's a good thing. 

Cheers.

G


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I had to go to Toronto yesterday....so ... I picked up my controller. 
Gee, I wonder how it works??...lol 

Should get my batteries next week, even though I am not ready for them. 

Oh, hey Rob, I figured out the breaker thing.... 250 Volts, 250 Amps (adjustable trip instantaneous current) comes with bracket, cable and handle.  I think this thing is worth more than my truck.. . My cost = $0. I have a buddy with a little integration co. The welding world really does have a multitude of stuff for use in an EV.
Stay tuned, I'll post pics for you. 

Now, I gotta get going on the truck. I don't know if I mentioned, but I sold my snowmobile (too many toys) and have a few bites on the truck cap. Had a few bites on the ICE also, but has quieted down. So far, I haven't really got into my bank account on this project.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Here's the breaker. A Cutler-Hammer. It's a three pole so can be used for AC up to 600 volts or just the outside two poles for 250 volts dc. You can see the two wires used for external shunt trip.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I spent most of my free time on the weekend wire-wheeling off the rust from the frame. I'm just about far enough to start on motor install. I want to get the frame done back to the start of the box. When the box comes off, the rear frame should be a breeeeze to work on compared to lying under that beast with an angle grinder. (where is my ROTISSERIE Rob!) lol I have maybe another half day left of grinding/painting before I can get back to install type activity. I see it as rounding the corner...lol. I get impatient sometimes...and just want to get it done.... but I know I will be disappointed if I don't do it the way I want. 

I sold the cap tonight for $200. Not bad, it was very dirty and not in the best shape. Cuts my cost on the truck down another notch.

Cheers.....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Not too much time on the truck this weekend, but what I did have was spent grinding and painting. argh.... bad estimate,.. was more than a half day left to get me to point of motor install. Decided to remove the drive shaft hanger bearing x-mbr. It was riveted in. It all needs rust removal and painting. Did the front stubby drive shaft also.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I picked up this Ogura electric clutch on the weekend also. I plan to use it for my regenerative breaking alternator. I will mount it on the motor aux shaft and energize it from a thumb switch on the side of my shifter knob. It had a tapered mount hole. I bored it out to 7/8" to fit my aux shaft but need to broach a keyway now. 

I may end up moving my motor speed sensor to the drive shaft end, just behind the coupler. We'll see. Been messing with it.


----------



## etischer (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Tach sensor....*

With this setup you will get a tiny pulse every rev. At 2000 rpm, the tiny sliver of a pulse might not be seen. It is about 5% duty cycle. 

If you could make a collar so the sensor is active for 1/2 a rev you would have a more robust system, 50% duty cycle. 












DIYguy said:


> So, I made a new bracket from stainless steel and found a 90 degree connector for the prox. That looks a little better. I used epoxy to bond the wire holder. It would be really cool if it actually works... lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Tach sensor....*



etischer said:


> With this setup you will get a tiny pulse every rev. At 2000 rpm, the tiny sliver of a pulse might not be seen. It is about 5% duty cycle.
> 
> If you could make a collar so the sensor is active for 1/2 a rev you would have a more robust system, 50% duty cycle.


Thank you Etischer,

This is an excellent point. I did consider it and still am unsure of the pulse duration requirements. It's true though, that longer is likely better. The ICE used a similar prox although I don't know if it was inductive, capacitive or what... but the trigger points were actually fairly short also and on a larger diameter. Either way I was thinking that 25% or 90 degrees would be optimal.... since overdoing the "on" state would only serve the same problem in reverse.. as in less "off" state. ( I think I need two pulses per rev for my OEM tach)

I do have a meter for pulse recognition and was thinking of testing it. Either way, it would be better to address this while the motor is still out of the truck...especially since I may be relocating it anyways.

Regards,
Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I received these little twins today.  The selling price was good. The shipping fee up front was fine...but the duty I got charged by UPS was a very tough pill to swallow.  I should do some checking on that tomorrow.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*got batteries.... *

So I picked up my batteries today. Sterling HA135-485. Damn they are heavy .. 101.3 lbs/each. These might be actually better than I had hoped for. They look brand new...not that this matters. But, I had a good chat with the guy who gets them. There should be 5 years left on the spec'd life (age) and they were cycled 4 times/year for 30 seconds. He did a load test on each one. I check them all when I got home and and they were all within .1 of 13 volts. I was expecting HA140's though...and these are HA135's. Oh well, not that big of a deal, It wouldn't change my mind. I paid $50 each and bought 20..even though I really only need 16. (He would have charged me $55 each if I bought 16 only.) Range may not be all that great... but they will dump 1800 amps max discharge...lol . (not that I will ever see that much).


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Box-less....*

Yesterday, I decided to pull the box off the truck. I actually took this thing off myself. argh! Took some rigging... but no damage or injury..lol One thing I am happy about is the body on this truck. The frame may be rusty, but the body has no rust. There is one spot the size of a quarter on the fuel door...that's it. It does have more than it's share of dings though...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*More weight to go!*

Won't be needing this spare tire carrier..will trade it in for a can of inflation... .... besides, need lots of room for them big honkin batts.. Looks like I can fit two rows of 4 behind the axle... almost a perfect fit. I'm pleased with that. These batteries are long at 13.5". I will have to move this left hand rear shock fwd of the axl though, to make this work well. Have to hunt for some old shock mounts at work.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Fuel tank x-mbr gets hacked....*

No need for this x-mbr any more. There is another one about 10' away, just under the cab. Main purpose of this one was to hold the fuel tank. Removed some exhast hangers as well. The more weight out the better! Energy density is not the best with AGM's! I'm getting tired of the the mess from wire-wheeling the rust off this frame. I think I may take it for sand blasting. The front half is done..but the back is left to do. Should be a lot easier with the box off also....... Then I can start putting this thing back together....


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

UPS is downright racist when it comes to canadians. Its only when you try and import something from the states into canada. From canada to the stats is not nearly as bad. They will rape you and thats all there is to it. A class action lawsiut is in the works but word on the street is if you make a big enough stink they may give you a partial refund for the fee.

Seriously, UPS should be strung up, drawn and quartered.

Work looks to be comming along nicely though. The rear of the frame (most prone to rust typically) looks nice and solid. Not sure if you know this already, but be careful with grinder sparks around glass windows. The hot steel will perminantly imbed in the surface of the glass as black specks of steel oxide. Once its on, you can never get it off again.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

The total charge on the two contactors was crazy. I have to add it up...but I paid another $62 or $67 (can't remember) at UPS pick up. This truly is bull$hit. Thanks for the advise, I think I will complain.

You know, I'm glad you mentioned about the grinding and glass. Thank you. Yes I do know about it....but had really not even thought about it of late. I do need to replace the windshield as there is a scrape line from some idiot running the wipers....with no wiper....  (figure out the logic in that will ya?) I haven't been taking any precaution with the rest of the glass, and I really should. My grinding has been down low...but.... u never know.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I just want to comment on two positives.....

Regarding the contactor duty fees.... I spoke to UPS, got nowhere. However, I messaged the vendor (through E-Bay) just to let him know what happens when he uses UPS for Canadian customers. This guy actually apologized and refunded half of the duty fees! I was taken aback. How rare is it in this modern world for someone to step up like that. It really wasn't his fault... I'm impressed. 

Secondly, the chap I bought the batteries from.... I messaged him and let him know of my surprise over the 135 vs 140 Ah batts. He didn't even know that he got 135's. He thought that they were all 140's. He offered to exchange them as as he has more 140's. I told him that I would let him know... I'm not sure it is worth my drive. But, again...very impressed with the stand-up position. 

Still lots of good ppl out there.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I decided to take the truck to have the rest of the frame sand blasted. Just getting tired of the manual way...argh. So, look out U-Haul, here I come!

There that's better! Got the secondary drive shaft, front bumper and tranny mount done also.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I actually got a coat of Rust Seal on everything except the front bumper tonight also. I didn't paint the most rear cross member in the frame though, as I plan to remove it after I add a replacement one just behind it. I need to square off and box in the end of the frame rails to have good fit for my rear battery box. Need the support here also as I will weld on hinges to tilt the box. I will weld in the new x-mbr first, then cut out the old one, that way everything stays put. 
I'll add some pics tomorrow.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

One other thing... the guys at IOTA, Errin and Don Bull are awesome!  .

DC/DC is on the way.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I also ordered one of the "Cycle Analyst" over at E-Bikes, yesterday. Check it out, these guys are great too! http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml 
It was originally developed for electric bicycles...but they did this model for EV's. Picture courtesy of "Notnull". http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/127

This is a great deal....for the money...or at any price!


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah you gotta love how crusty the rear of a truck frame can get on canadian roads. Take a good hard look at your rear spring shackles and shock mounts. If they are badly pitted, they you might as well replace them now when they are easy to get at.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks David. It's a good point. I checked em out already. They are actually ok. I have to move the left hand shock fwd of the axle. I will likely have the springs beefed up just a bit, I'll probably change the shackle bushings at that time. 

Sure is nice painting after the sand blast though. The garage was turning into a dust storm wire-wheeling off that rust. And my wife was ready to kill me.  I bought her a new V50 and ever since the garage is like holly ground...lol


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Glad to see you've ordered the Cycle Analyst. I agree this is a real find! I've been with impressed with the communication I've had with them. I plan to use this system as well.

You've really moved ahead....I'm jealous! I'm having to park my project for a few months til I get a rush of paid work out of the way. Hopefully back at it in an intense way in late May. I want to drive in June. Would be kinda nice if our dollar would strengthen a bit...

Take care.

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hi Rob,

Nice to hear from you. I knew you were busy, so.. I didn't bother you. The Cycle Analyst was thanks to you for the tip.  As you know, I like analog guages, but this has a bigger screen with set-able refresh rate. + I like the detail calcs. I'll still use my analog gauges though. Very good value at $170 Cdn. 

I'm just chipping away here. I really don't spend too much time on the project with all the kids sports. But hockey is winding down now and there may be a little lull between that and the baseball and floor hockey. lol 

I'm really getting anxious to get mine going also. I should be starting to assemble stuff very soon. Did you get your order from Belktronix yet?

Take care.

Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I had a few hours to spend this aft so, I removed the most aft x-mbr and replaced it with a piece of 1/8" x 2 x 2 angle iron. Then I mounted and welded some hinges on for tilting the box.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Of course the drivers side shock has to go for a bounce to the other side of the axle.. I just re-used both the mount on the frame rail and the one on the axle. Zip blade to cut off. Had to weld up some grooves and blend in with the flapper wheel. Turned out good. Picked up some 1/8"x1"x1" angle for the battery boxes also. Will start on those tomorrow.


----------



## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Lookin good DIY.
Appears to be a sturdy platform for those Monster Batts. Leaf springs...luv 'em!
Hockey? You guys play Hockey in Canada?
Roy


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Speaking of rear springs. What might be an option is to take the rear springs out of a ford F150 between the years of 1980 and 1996. The spring lengths are the same but the arch is tighter and spring rate is higher. It would make the rear right height quite high, but if you are loading a lot of lead back there, it could be just right. I've done this mod on a 4x4 ranger and even with the 2" spacer blocks removed, the rear height is slightly higher than stock.

Air bags should also available for the ranger/B series pickups.

Throwin some ideas out there for ya.

Just don't use bolt on helper springs.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> Lookin good DIY.
> Appears to be a sturdy platform for those Monster Batts. Leaf springs...luv 'em!
> Hockey? You guys play Hockey in Canada?
> Roy


We only play hockey ...ahhhh, lets see...... all the time... hehe

Thanks Roy.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Speaking of rear springs. What might be an option is to take the rear springs out of a ford F150 between the years of 1980 and 1996. The spring lengths are the same but the arch is tighter and spring rate is higher. It would make the rear right height quite high, but if you are loading a lot of lead back there, it could be just right. I've done this mod on a 4x4 ranger and even with the 2" spacer blocks removed, the rear height is slightly higher than stock.
> 
> Air bags should also available for the ranger/B series pickups.
> 
> ...


Some really good tips David. Thanks. I've never had Fords, so didn't know that. We have a really good custom spring place in town. I had a older Jeep 4x4 pickup done there once. They cut and arch (or re-arch) spring steel and can build up any leaf stack for quite a resonable price. I think they would just add a leaf or two to what is already there. I will check out your idea though, as it's a good option.  I agree, I wouldn't use the "helper-spring" leaf option. Always thought they were mickey-mouse. As for the air bag.... I don't even know if this truck has one.  Actually, it should ...but I don't know...I never drove it. That's something to check out.

Cheers.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I think he means adjustable air bags for the springs


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I think he means adjustable air bags for the springs


OHHHHH ! hehehe Ur right! lol  Thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I started on my most aft battery box. 1"x1"x 1/8" angle. Yes, it will have more bracing/supports. Made up a couple of very light weight batteries. Don't ask me why I jumped to this....just got the itch I guess since it was so nice outside and I wanted to weld outside the garage. This back rack will hold 8 batteries nicely.... at only just over 800lbs! lol I think I will line box with 6mm Fir (exterior grade) plywood, then a layer of bubble/foil. It's going to be a chore fitting these monsters in. 

I was actually thinking of welding in brackets to bolt the racks to. This would make for easier removal to work on stuff as well as mods for future batteries. I haven't decided if it's worth the extra effort yet or not. It's not like I can't get them out if I welded them in....but..... I dunno. 
Anyone else opted to do this on a truck??

PS what a crappy pic. I know it was getting late in the day..but geesh!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Today I got the keyway broached in the electric clutch hub. You may recall that it was a tapered hole originally. This should work out nicely. Now I just have to put the clutch back together.. oh ya.... and mount it... oh ya... and figure out how to regen...lmao


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got a nice little surprise in the mail today. The guys at IOTA are unbelievable. They worked with me on testing this unit to make sure it would work for my plan to start lower, and work up in pack voltage. This unit will work from 150VDC right up to 400VDC. I'm not sure I should say this as I don't want to cause a commotion...but there was a bit of a mix up when spec'ing the unit I needed on my first call. I was very cool about it as I hadn't ordered it yet. They actually went and sent me this unit for free!  Called it a sample or something. Wow! I couldn't believe it. I was quoted $300 USD from one supplier and I did find one for around $200. Please don't swarm them looking for a similar deal. This was a special circumstance and they sell through a distributorship arrangement. I don't want to cause them any grief. I do want to plug them though. I would buy this product even at the higher price. The IQ4 option is very good I think. I didn't get that option... I didn't want to push it...lol I know many of you are already familiar with this product... I may have a few questions.

Cheers.


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

nice work! keep it up! I wonder how necessary it is to use a manual steering box?

I removed my power steering pump, and routed the hydrolics back into itself (after draining it). It steers fine so far, but I'm thinking the truck does not stay centre while driving. (drifts to one either side depending on which way i just turned the steering wheel). I'll know more when I get proper batteries and can take it on a straight-away for more than 3 min.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Joel said:


> nice work! keep it up! I wonder how necessary it is to use a manual steering box?
> 
> I removed my power steering pump, and routed the hydrolics back into itself (after draining it). It steers fine so far, but I'm thinking the truck does not stay centre while driving. (drifts to one either side depending on which way i just turned the steering wheel). I'll know more when I get proper batteries and can take it on a straight-away for more than 3 min.


Hey Joel, most guys who start with your method end up changing to a standard box. The std box has a much better mechanical advantage through gear ratio, which should make it feel easier. 

So,...what DO u have for batteries? I know of a killer deal, not far from you....well not too far that is. PM me again.

Gary


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Looks like I will be picking up my batteries in about 2 weeks. They aren't my first choice or even my second...but I guess they will do for a first timer. I do like somethings about VRLA..... but the energy density really sucks.. Oh well, the truck can haul 'em.
> 
> I found these (see pics) from a large UPS application. They get cycled for 30 seconds - 4 times a year. There is still 5 years left on the warranty. They come with a load test. They are 140 Ah and weigh in at about 100 lbs ea. I will install 15 of them in my truck for a 180 volt pack... and buy a spare or two. If I buy 20, I can get them for $50 each. Anything less will cost me $55. It's not a big investment and ok for a start.


I'm definitely curious about these batteries. for everyone else, I found the data sheet here: http://www.sterlingbatteries.com/pdfs/HA140.pdf
I need to weigh my truck before getting more batteries however. (especially if I want to add 12 batts at 100lbs ea)


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got another tidbit in the mail today. This is an awesome value. Check it out....at Ebikes.ca. u know, buyin stuff is easy...lol. Getting it all put in is another story...lol 

http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Today I got the keyway broached in the electric clutch hub. You may recall that it was a tapered hole originally. This should work out nicely. Now I just have to put the clutch back together.. oh ya.... and mount it... oh ya... and figure out how to regen...lmao


I had to clear (lathe) the plate in front of the enlarged hole so that I can fasten this on the shaft. If you compress this outer plate, it will cause the clutch to engage. This should work better. Just need an appropriate sized washer/spacer, and the original nut.


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: regen*

I was having thoughts of setting up a regen system, but for the amount of work that is involved for only 5-10% increase in range (and keeping in mind, that I am doing my conversion with no garage, workshop, machining, or welding) I don't think I'll do it any time soon. (not having these things simply makes work take longer, nothing is impossible)

There are a couple ways to use an alternator for regen.

1. Rewind the coils - this is what other people have done (specifically here
http://www.northrim.net/wyanders/ev/regeneration.html
this would allow the alternator to output a voltage that can be hooked up to the battery pack and may be slighly less work than the 2nd option below. (assuming you get the coil winding to output the correct voltage the first time you do it)

2. i came up with this one myself. Since the alternator is simply a 3 phase AC generator, and after reverse engineering automotive chargers for my conversion, I figured why not send the 15VAC (RMS?) (or whatever it is) to each battery (with a rectifier for each battery)? I suppose a regulator of some sort might be required, however hitting the brakes is not something that is done for more than 60 seconds tops (going down a hill)
this option would allow easy replacement of a dead alternator.

attached is the circuit diagram of the alternator that was in my truck. (i still have it under my bed)


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Joel,

I've read this thread from your link also. I like a lot of the things this guy has done. I just wonder if an alternator, even re-wound will capture enough energy to slow the truck (I like the braking part as much) and create sufficient regen power. I did email this chap to ask him some questions also the other day. No response yet. Would be nice to get something with a little more umph! lol

Whadaya think??

G


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

well he did mention on his page that there is a noticeable improvement in braking power. I doubt it is strong enough to significantly slow the truck down on regen alone. If you want something stronger, you might be stuck. The only thing that I can think of in that would work in our situation (ie, not using an AC system) is the main motor itself. Mine is a Series wound Advance DC 9", i'm not sure what yours is, but if you could separatly energize the coil of the motor, you could turn it into a giant generator, but you'd need some fancy wiring/contactors/controller for that. 
I think It could be done with a series wound motor and regular non-regen controller by using a bunch of contactors to power the coil of the motor and then draw current from the stator into the batteries. unessesarily complicated, something that engineering students like to do. (which is not me)

-Joel


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Series motors with advanced timed brushes don't like regen, because the brushes become retarded during regen, which means arcing and destruction.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks Joel,
> 
> I've read this thread from your link also. I like a lot of the things this guy has done. I just wonder if an alternator, even re-wound will capture enough energy to slow the truck (I like the braking part as much) and create sufficient regen power. I did email this chap to ask him some questions also the other day. No response yet. Would be nice to get something with a little more umph! lol
> 
> ...


Roland Weinch on the EVDL used an alternator on his Land Rover and claimed it worked pretty well, I don't know if he uses the same system on his ElCamino as well.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I think maybe if I got one with a high enough output, it wouldn't be too bad. I wonder what the voltage curve of this one... http://www.windbluepower.com/Permanent_Magnet_Alternator_Wind_Blue_High_Wind_p/dc-520.htm looks like above 2000 rpm? 2.5 Kw at 2000 isn't bad.... 3.3 hp, be nice to get double that though.

Maybe feeding one of these into a Manzanita PFC30...they seem to work above 60VAC. That PMA outputs unregulated, rectified DC OR 3 phase AC... which may be a problem since I think the PFC likes single phase.

I want an onboard charger that can take 30 amps or so at 240VAC anyways for my series gen trailer option....not to mention quicker charging at home. If I could get the right PMA output to dump into the same on-board charger for regen also....that would be ideal.

Thoughts??


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I finished the rear battery box.. well, the construction and mounting of it anyways. I still have to paint it and mount the fir plywood panels, insulation etc. Battery supports are nothing special...but since this is an area that I am more knowledgable in... It is not over or underdesigned as some are. Materials are light enough, but there are enough of them in the right places to do the job. This box will carry over 800 lbs. The other thing I decided to do was to mount it so it can be removed. It is bolted in, in 6 places.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I decided to coat my brush holder assembly and plate with a dielectric. This may be a bit controversial... but u can save your energy... I hummed and hawed and asked and researched...and wished there was more out there on it. Fact of the matter is.... I believe that flashover, at higher voltages, doesn't need any help by points of conduction in this area. It is quite possible that carbon dust from brushes, plays a role. 
The one negative may be reduced cooling from lack of direct air contact to these components. I will have forced air cooling so..... I have decided to move fwd this way. 
I used this stuff..... http://www.aervoe.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=12&idproduct=204 , it's the same stuff I coated my field coils with. It has an insulation capability of 2100 volts/mil (a mil is one thou or 0.001") when dry. It's also flexible.

edit; yes, I taped the important spots.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I put a few more braces on the rear battery box, then painted it. It's kinda nice to be able to have it mount with bolts so I can take it out and in. I will use Fir (exterior grade) plywood, coat it with Thompson's Water seal, then spray it black after the sealer soaks in and dries. 

After the plywood, I will line the inside with this foil/bubble wrap insulation.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, now it looks like this.... starting to look like something finally...


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Looking good! I wish I was doing a pickup, so much room to work with


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks, yes... I suppose ur right. I seem to be able to get these big monsters tucked in ok. I sometimes wish I would end up with more room for people though!. Its an extended cab and short box...so, I can stuff em (people) behind the seats if I have to... 

Eight batteries in... 8 to go! 

I broke down my motor, tranny, adaptor, coupler. I want to redo the motor rpm sensor on the drive end. Even though I am not using a hall effect sensor for the pick up, (I know there have been issues with electric clutch and these sensors!!!), I want to get it away from the clutch. I think I could rig it up in front...but, I don't like the idea. I'll mount a sleeve behind the coupler (motor side) and my prox will pick up there. Will just have to run some tests before buttoning it up as I won't want to mess with it once done.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I spent some time to redo my motor speed sensor. It turned out quite good. I used my meter on tach setting to test it. I actually shot a video of it but seem to be having some troubles uploading it anywhere. I will figure it out when I get some time. It was too large for Utube. I also shot a video of my electric clutch mounting and set up. Same story...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I figured, enough of this, I have to get this thing (motor) into my truck! It took me almost as long to get the motor up the stairs into my garage than it did to put it into the truck. lol Anyways, it's in. Next is the motor mount. 

If u haven't noticed yet... I like to jump around a lot with what I am working on... (I get bored easily lol).


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

you can upload large files to google video, though they are shutting down soon, so i don't know if it will work.
if not, you'll have to convert your video to something smaller (like using divx or xvid) and then upload it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I decided to get some beefier springs for the rear end. There is a local truck spring shop in town. I just had to supply a couple measurements and they made up two extra leafs (one per side) for me. About $40 each. With some bench labour for drilling holes and putting the plastic inserts, it was about $100 with tax. Check it out. Based on the weight I will carry, it is suppose to be back to stock height and be a little more stiff than before.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I was away for most of the weekend, in Quebec, but got home Sunday around noon and decided to put my new leaf springs in. It went pretty well. That last pic is with the weight on the springs....at least 800 lbs of it anyways.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Of course I had to move on to something else...lol So..... I did the rear brakes.... Bought new springs as well as shoes and drums. I wire wheeled off the backing plate and painted it as well as the misc bits and pieces.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Of course I had to move on to something else... I wire wheeled off the backing plate and painted it as well as the misc bits and pieces.


Sick Bastidge

What measurements did you have to take for the helper spring and which one in the spring pack did you replace? I'm using some bolt-on helpers and need to do it right.

I'm hoping to re-use some of the add-ons for the new helper leaf for the leaf pack.

And just in case some day you run into "surging" at a certain range of speed (like 28-38mph), I tracked down most of my driveline vibrations to worn splines on the left rear axle on my Ranger. It may also apply to your Mazda B2000.

I bought a new one off eBay and swapped it out. It got rid of 90% of my driveline vibrations and think the other 10% is from worn splines on the other side but not in a hurry to spend another $100- and change it out yet.

Here is a photo showing the worn splines.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Sick Bastidge
> 
> What measurements did you have to take for the helper spring and which one in the spring pack did you replace? I'm using some bolt-on helpers and need to do it right.
> 
> ...


You just have to measure from the through bolt fwd, and then rear-ward.This is not a replacement...this is an additional leaf. This extra leaf would fit just under the "first one".. (top one) this is the one that bolts to the shackle and fwd mount. If you look at my very grainy pic below, you will see that the new leaf is the second one down. I had a cigarette pack design...but left it at the spring place. If you need more details just PM me...

That is a very good bit of advise on the rear axle and also a very good bit of trouble shooting on your part. Those are the kind of problems that even drive dealership mechanics crazy trying to figure out. I will store that in my memory banks for sure. My truck, a B4000, has 140K original km on it.. . not that this protects it from anything.

Thanks again.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Of course I had to move on to something else...lol So..... I did the rear brakes.... Bought new springs as well as shoes and drums. I wire wheeled off the backing plate and painted it as well as the misc bits and pieces.


... asick sick man painted the INSIDE of a brake drum!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> ... asick sick man painted the INSIDE of a brake drum!


hehe, just wait till I paint the drum!


----------



## zeus (Aug 28, 2008)

Hey, this is good information. 

I added a "SuperSpring" helper spring to my S10. It is supposed to support 1,800 pounds of additional load. I have 20 Trojan 145 batteries at 70 pounds each. Four are in front so the rear has about 1100 additional pounds. However, it sags more than I had hoped. I'm still doing the wiring so I haven't driven it yet but I think I'm going to have to add a leaf like you did here.

I assume I can find a spring shop in Los Angeles to do the same thing. I'm not looking forward to taking it apart but I'm going to have to do it. I'm sitting too low.

Tom


----------



## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

My son had an S15 V-6 GMC. It could carry waaay more than an equivalent S10. Might be easier to just make a swap, if you can find a good deal.


----------



## zeus (Aug 28, 2008)

That's a good idea. I'm going to finish the wiring first and do a test drive but I'll start keeping an eye out for an S15 at the junk yards.

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

zeus said:


> Hey, this is good information.
> 
> I added a "SuperSpring" helper spring to my S10. It is supposed to support 1,800 pounds of additional load. I have 20 Trojan 145 batteries at 70 pounds each. Four are in front so the rear has about 1100 additional pounds. However, it sags more than I had hoped. I'm still doing the wiring so I haven't driven it yet but I think I'm going to have to add a leaf like you did here.
> 
> ...


Adding a leaf to the stack is very straight fwd. It is easier than replacing the brake shoes. If you have a floor jack, maybe 30 to 40 min per side. The first side took me about 40 minutes... the second one took about 15 minutes. ... but I did have the wheels off already. Most cities will have a truck spring shop.... The one I went to quoted me a price of about $350 for the springs and labour to do the whole job. I think this price may have included a second leaf per side.... It definitely included new U-bolts, mine were fine though. I decided to do it myself and it cost about $85 + tax.

cheers...


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Nice build. I have that same motor going into a '03 Protege. I'll make use of your brush advance guide.

I'm not sure if this was mentioned or not but I read the old ICE was a 4.0L? So that was a v6 I assume. If so your tach pulse to the factory tach will need to be 3 pulses per rev. I'm sure you knew that I just didn't want you to think your at 4000 when your really at 6000.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> Nice build. I have that same motor going into a '03 Protege. I'll make use of your brush advance guide.


Thanks lazzer. I'm interested to know more about the motor. I have no specs on it to speak of. I was hoping someone would benefit from something that i have done. 



lazzer408 said:


> I'm not sure if this was mentioned or not but I read the old ICE was a 4.0L? So that was a v6 I assume. If so your tach pulse to the factory tach will need to be 3 pulses per rev. I'm sure you knew that I just didn't want you to think your at 4000 when your really at 6000.


Now this really interests me. I did not know it was 3 pulses per rev. I did some digging and received some info...it was not absolutely conclusive, but all indications were that the OEM tach needed 2 pulses per rev. 
May I enquire about your confidence in this answer? Not second guessing, as I have no idea myself....just want to make sure. Now that I have my motor installed... I would have to pull it and split the tranny and remove coupler again to change the pulse generator now that I have put it on the back side.  I was planning to test it soon and I guess I can do that anyways... as I have a hand held RPM meter. Thank you for your help.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Now this really interests me. I did not know it was 3 pulses per rev. I did some digging and received some info...it was not absolutely conclusive, but all indications were that the OEM tach needed 2 pulses per rev.
> May I enquire about your confidence in this answer? Not second guessing, as I have no idea myself....just want to make sure. Now that I have my motor installed... I would have to pull it and split the tranny and remove coupler again to change the pulse generator now that I have put it on the back side.  I was planning to test it soon and I guess I can do that anyways... as I have a hand held RPM meter. Thank you for your help.


If the stock engine had a distributor I can say I'm 99% sure it's 3 pulses. The factory tach would likely recieve it's signal from the negitive terminal of the coil. That coil would fire 3 times per revolution on a 6 cylinder 4 cycle engine. If the engine uses a wasted spark ignition (3 coils) or COP ignition (6 coils / coil-over-plug) then the tach would get it's pulse from the ECU/PCM and could be anything. Most likely it's still 3 pulses.

I'll look back at your first post and grab the year/make/model and look up your vehicle's schematics and see if that'll help me any. You have too much time into this to have such a simple overlook pop your armature. 

Give me a few minutes...


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Generally what lazzer408 is correct. Since this is a 4 cycle engine, the cylinders fire every second revolution, so the pulse per revolution from the ignition coil is the number of cylinders devided by 2.

If the truck originally had a 4 cyl, it will need 2 pulse/rev,

6cyl needs 3,

8cyl needs 4 and so on.

However in the case of the older ford full size trucks, the same tach was used between the 6 cyl and 8 cyl engines. To calibrate the tachometer between the two engines, the tach had an extra ground wire that was connected when use with an 8 cyl engine and left unplugged with 6 cyl engines. The extra ground connector on the back of the PC board of the tachometer was labelled "G8", meaning ground for 8 cyl engine. Since your truck is a relative of my old F150, there might be a similar label on your truck's tachometer if you have a closer look at it.

Otherwise, you can pop the question on TheRangerStation.com of how many pulse/rev there is with your factory tachometer.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Generally what lazzer408 is correct.


Generally? 



david85 said:


> ...your truck is a relative of my old F150...


That's an insult to Mazda! 

david85 might be on to something though. If your tach has an option like that for a 4/6 cylinder selection then you could set it to 4-cyl and your 2 pulse per rev would work.

Still looking guys. I had to reload my Mitchel DVDs. This is taking awhile.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Cluster tach (pin 15) receives it's pulse directly from the ECU via. the tan/yellow from ECU's (pin48). Looking at ignition system now...

Ok, FWIW you have a wasted spark ignition system which means 3 coils each fire 2 times per revolution. Two plugs fire simaltaniously. One on the power stroke, one on exhaust. The one firing on the exhaust stroke is the wasted spark. Anyways...

If the ECU sends all 3 coils worth to the tach then it could be 6 pulses per-rev. There's no other information I can give you. If you have a hand held tach you'll figure it out in the end but most definitly verify the cluster tach is actually reporting what the motor is doing.

As far as your motor... I think it's an 18hp 1hr motor.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks guys... Jimdear is one of the other more knowledgable guys on this topic... below is a cut out of a PM he sent me.

I think that your original ICE had either three coils with 2 spark plug wires in each coil or possibly 6 coils wired in pairs. Either way that is a distributorless waste spark system (each two lead or pair of coils fires 2 spark plugs simutainously). The plugs are in cylinders that are phased 180 degrees apart so one plug fires on the power stroke for one cylinder and "wastes" a spark on the exhaust stroke of its paired cylinder.

If this is the case your tach will use a 2 pulse per revolution signal. All waste spark systems, even those on 4 cylinder and 8 culinder engins use a 2 pulse count per rev. signal. 

Feel free to contact me again if I can be of any help.

Hope this helps,
Jim PM he sent me...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

This is the original thread where I posed the question.....
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...signal-help-25855.html?t=25855&highlight=tach


Thanks again.

I will be able to test it soon.... so, I'll let you know.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks guys... Jimdear is one of the other more knowledgable guys on this topic... below is a cut out of a PM he sent me.
> 
> I think that your original ICE had either three coils with 2 spark plug wires in each coil or possibly 6 coils wired in pairs. Either way that is a distributorless waste spark system (each two lead or pair of coils fires 2 spark plugs simutainously). The plugs are in cylinders that are phased 180 degrees apart so one plug fires on the power stroke for one cylinder and "wastes" a spark on the exhaust stroke of its paired cylinder.
> 
> ...


I don't agree with that. Being an Import tuner (mainly AEM) I have to know alot about the various ignition systems to program the ECU just make an engine run, let alone spending hours tuning it. lol

360/6cyl=60deg *2(4 stroke) = 120deg firing. Not 180deg. A 4 cylinder is 180deg and has 2 fires/rev and an 8 cylinder is 90deg and has 4 fires/rev. A 6cyl engine fire 3 times in one rotation -period-. I highly doubt the ecu divides that into 2 pulses per revolution just to drive a tach. There's no need to add the extra electronics to do so. Your engine is an even-firing 60deg V (cylinder angle). GM has a 90deg v6 (4.3L) which turned the crankshaft into a nightmare to get even firing out of it. They did make an odd-fire crank for use in the 4.3L racing engines... I digress. 

Not to argue ofcorse but rather to explain what's happening so we all understand why the pulse count is what it is.

You'll get it nailed down eventually and then we'll all know.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

lazzer408 said:


> That's an insult to Mazda!


Mazda B series and ford ranger are the same truck. Sorry to break the news LOL


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Mazda B series and ford ranger are the same truck. Sorry to break the news LOL


I'm sure we all know that. It's putting a American logo on a Mazda product that is the insult.  I don't want to jack the thread with controversy though. I'll do that to my own threads. haha. Keep up the good work on the Mazda DIYguy!


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> I don't agree with that. Being an Import tuner (mainly AEM) I have to know alot about the various ignition systems to program the ECU just make an engine run, let alone spending hours tuning it. lol
> 
> 360/6cyl=60deg *2(4 stroke) = 120deg firing. Not 180deg. A 4 cylinder is 180deg and has 2 fires/rev and an 8 cylinder is 90deg and has 4 fires/rev. A 6cyl engine fire 3 times in one rotation -period-. I highly doubt the ecu divides that into 2 pulses per revolution just to drive a tach. There's no need to add the extra electronics to do so. Your engine is an even-firing 60deg V (cylinder angle). GM has a 90deg v6 (4.3L) which turned the crankshaft into a nightmare to get even firing out of it. They did make an odd-fire crank for use in the 4.3L racing engines... I digress.
> 
> ...


To all interested,

Sorry, I may have mis spoken with the 180° statement. What I was trying to state is that each separate coil in a waste spark system fires twice in each full revolution of the crankshaft. No matter if it is a 2, 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engine.

Now, let me lecture a bit (If I come across a bit stiff, please excuse me. I write and reauthor repair manuals and do not have a folksy presentation)

*WASTE SPARK SYSTEM.*
The tachometer is normally driven by sensing the firing signal pulses of one coil of a waste spark system (the usual practice when the tach is not driven by the PCM in some exoctic way.) 

I.E. The pulse signal used to trigger one coil in the waste spark coil pack is also directed to the tachometer. The tach will see only those two pulses per for one complete revolution of the crankshaft.

I've NEVER, in over 40 years as a repair technician, seen a waste spark system that used the trigger signal from more then one coil to drive a tachometer. 


That means:
A 2 cylinder engine will produce 2 trigger signal pulses per revolution from the single coil used on the engine.
A four cylinder engine that uses the trigger signal from one of two coils to drive the tach will produce 2 pulses per crankshaft revolution.
A six cylinder engine that uses the trigger signal for one of the three coils to drive the tach will produce 2 pulses per crankshaft revolution.
A eight cylinder engine that uses the trigger signal for one of the four coils to drive the tach will produce 2 pulses per crankshaft revolution.
The tach signal wire could come from the PCM or be directly connected to the individual waste spatk coil.

*ENGINES WITH DISTRIBUTORS AND A SINGLE COIL.*

When the tach is driven by the pulse count from a distributor/coil the distributor is going to trigger the ignition coil a specific number of times in one crank revolution depending on the actual phisical cylinder count. Since a four stroke has a 720° full cycle, only 1/2 of the cylinders fire in one crank revolution.


This means that; 
A four cylinder engine produces 2 firing pulses per single crank revolution
A six cylinder engine produces 3 firing pulses per single crank revolution
A eight cylinder engine produces 4 firing pulses per single crank revolution
The tach signal wire generally is connected directly to the coil or distributor.

*COIL ON PLUG (COP) AND OTHER EXOTICA*

These systems generally use a crank position sensor which could have any number of teeth on the pulse wheel along with the Number one cylinder TDC location notch. The PCM inturprets that signal count and the Number one notch into a driver signal for the tachometer (As well as the coil firing and injector triggering signals).

The tach driver signal wire comes from the PCM

*FINALLY;*

*Here is an important point:* 

Why would the OEM reinvent the tachometer? It is just as easy to program the PCM to sent a signal of 2, 3 or 4 pulses (engineers choice) per crankshaft revolution and use existing tachometer technology.

*Another important point: *

For some reason some of the OEMs did reinvent.

*Conclusion*
Unless there is some form of PCM intervention for some werid reason or the OEM reinvented the tachometer

Waste spark systems generally drive the tachometer with a two pulse count signal, taken from one coil no matter how many cylinders their are. *NOTE;* The weird system rule could apply here.

Distributor systems drive the tachometer with a pulse count 1/2 the actual cylinder count.

COP systems usually use the PCM to produce one of the three standard pulse counts. *NOTE;* The weird system rule could apply here.

None of the above is 100%.

*Recommendations:*

Those who would like to continue using their OEM tachometer and are unsure of the tachometer driver signal should investigate to be sure what is used before disassembly. Actually measure it

Those that have gone past that point, try driving the tachometer using a simple prox sensor and reluctor as follows. They are easy to build and attach and cheap.


Start with a 2 pulse reluctor for your signal.
Set your motor to run at a fixed speed.
Get a mechanical or optical tachometer (Buy, Beg, Borrow or Rent).
Read the actual rpm of your motor using mechanical or optical tach.
Build a reluctor to produce the signal needed.
If I wasn't clear, please ask.
Hope this helps


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Wow that's alot to read.

In 40 years you must have never worked on a 1989-2000(ish) Mazda Miata (amoung others) that parallels the tach output from 2 coils in a wasted spark system to drive the tach? Honda? Toyota? The list goes on. I converted one to coil-over-plug using Toyota coils and had to parallel all 4 coil outputs to drive the tach correctly. I could have got away with only using two with the factory ecu. When the EMs went and and converted to sequential ignition I did indeed need all 4 signals which is why I paralleled them in the begining. Point is there's more then one way to skin a cat and to say every wasted spark system only has 2 pulses is completely incorrect.

Why would the OEM reinvent the tachometer?

They don't. It already has a frequency to voltage converter. It's a matter of a resistor change to suit a different frequency. One resistor? Or pay a programmer?

DIYguy will verify his application soon I'm sure.

Jimdear2 If you need some schematics let me know. I'll explain it to you. Shoot me your email.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey guys. Thanks for all the help... the verdict is................ inconclusive...lol Sorry. I just ran out of time. Did quite a bit today. I finished the brakes on the passenger side. I made the motor mount as it was just propped up. I installed the two drive shafts and x-members, hanger bearing mount etc. I then ran the drive train from a 12 volt battery. Everything went smooth. (BTW, I did paint the rear brake drums  lmao..with heat resistant black paint good for 650 F) 

As for the tach part. .. well, first I had hooked up my pulse meter and low and behold, no pulse. After checking it all out, I found my prox cable was bad. I know why as I wrapped it up around my coupler a while ago while in the basement...forgot to test it after. Ok, got the pulse generator going. With my meter set to 4 cylinder, it was reading about 120...this is x 10 so 1200 rpm which is correct for 12 volts. I found the tan/yellow wire at pin 48 thank you. Bared a spot. hooked up an accessory battery. Had dash power as my blower was on and open door chimes were ringing. Key on. Motor turning. Hooked load circuit to wire. Nothing. No movement on the tach. Plugged the big connector back together as I thought I may need it to complete the circuit?? Nothing. 

What I did find was that when I had my pulse meter connected and reading ok... when I connected the tan/yellow wire at the same time.... the pulse count on the meter stopped. It is like the signal is going to ground.

Thats all for today... I had to wrap it up. Any ideas, I'm all ears.... 

Thanks again.

Gary


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Any ideas, I'm all ears....
> 
> Gary


You don't suppose it's acting like it's going to ground because your sensor (and it's magnetic pulse) is grounded to your adapter -which is ultimately grounded to chassis?










Keith Mercill a fellow Ranger EV'er sent me info on his '89 Ranger which had a 4-cylinder. One magnet on the motor shaft per revolution gave two pulses. 

His words... "I also had a 4 cyl. engine (with 8 spark plugs), and used just one magnet. For some reason it pulses the reed switch two times for each revolution..."

His Ranger used different colors than the tan-yellow that carries the pulse to the instrument cluster. His used dk grn/yellow stripe. My '91 and your '97 use tan/yellow stripe.

Although he is using a mechanical Reed switch, I believe the concept is the same. Just the location of where the magnet is.

Notice in the photo below how he indicates to mount pick-up on a non-conductive mount.

Also when I was trying to locate the right tach input wire, he told me to test it to see if it was the right one as follows. I traced the wire from the back of the tach to the plug on the firewall where it used to plug into the computer harness. 

"...When you find the wire if you will strip a little insulation from the end, take a file and attach 12 volts to it and then drag the DG/Y (tan/yellow stripe) wire down the file lightly the tach should register rpm's. Take care when doing this that the file does not come in contact with any part of the truck. This is not an OSHA approved test method..."


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Hey guys. Thanks for all the help... the verdict is................ inconclusive...lol Sorry. I just ran out of time. Did quite a bit today. I finished the brakes on the passenger side. I made the motor mount as it was just propped up. I installed the two drive shafts and x-members, hanger bearing mount etc. I then ran the drive train from a 12 volt battery. Everything went smooth. (BTW, I did paint the rear brake drums  lmao..with heat resistant black paint good for 650 F)
> 
> As for the tach part. .. well, first I had hooked up my pulse meter and low and behold, no pulse. After checking it all out, I found my prox cable was bad. I know why as I wrapped it up around my coupler a while ago while in the basement...forgot to test it after. Ok, got the pulse generator going. With my meter set to 4 cylinder, it was reading about 120...this is x 10 so 1200 rpm which is correct for 12 volts. I found the tan/yellow wire at pin 48 thank you. Bared a spot. hooked up an accessory battery. Had dash power as my blower was on and open door chimes were ringing. Key on. Motor turning. Hooked load circuit to wire. Nothing. No movement on the tach. Plugged the big connector back together as I thought I may need it to complete the circuit?? Nothing.
> 
> ...


With the vehicle's harness unplugged from the ecu, what is the ohm reading from the tan/yel to ground (key off) ?

What is the signal level from your sensor? 0-5? 0-12? ground-open?

Usually a tach wants to see 0-12.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> You don't suppose it's acting like it's going to ground because your sensor (and it's magnetic pulse) is grounded to your adapter -which is ultimately grounded to chassis?
> Notice in the photo below how he indicates to mount pick-up on a non-conductive mount.


My sensor is an inductive proximity.. it is not grounded to it's mount, it's an isolated circuit (see link in next post for circuit dia) .... so, must not be that.



tj4fa said:


> Also when I was trying to locate the right tach input wire, he told me to test it to see if it was the right one as follows. I traced the wire from the back of the tach to the plug on the firewall where it used to plug into the computer harness.
> 
> "...When you find the wire if you will strip a little insulation from the end, take a file and attach 12 volts to it and then drag the DG/Y (tan/yellow stripe) wire down the file lightly the tach should register rpm's. Take care when doing this that the file does not come in contact with any part of the truck. This is not an OSHA approved test method..."


This is an interesting idea...since I don't have a pulse generator (other than my motor sensor) I just may end up trying this! 



lazzer408 said:


> With the vehicle's harness unplugged from the ecu, what is the ohm reading from the tan/yel to ground (key off) ?


 I don't know lazzer...but I will check it out hopefully tonight.



lazzer408 said:


> What is the signal level from your sensor? 0-5? 0-12? ground-open?


This sensor is good for 10-30VDC... I am using 12VDC. 

Thanks guys....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> What is the signal level from your sensor? 0-5? 0-12? ground-open?
> 
> Usually a tach wants to see 0-12.


Here is the wiring dia.

http://www.turck-usa.com/illustrations/AP-V.gif


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

What's the sensors output current? Might be limited to a signal level of a few ma. Might not be enough.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> What's the sensors output current? Might be limited to a signal level of a few ma. Might not be enough.


Looks like the load current is => 150 ma. Fault limit set to 170ma. Is this too low you think?

I also noticed that the switching frequency is 3000...so, I may have to get a different sensor... That will only work up to about 1500 motor rpm I expect. 

http://www.turck-usa.com/illustrations/S4669460 (sheet_1).pdf

Thoughts? 

In the mean time... I will look at different sensors..


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Looks like the load current is => 150 ma. Fault limit set to 170ma. Is this too low you think?
> 
> I also noticed that the switching frequency is 3000...so, I may have to get a different sensor... That will only work up to about 1500 motor rpm I expect.
> 
> ...


Howdy,

Sorry to be late getting back to you, lazzer408 kind of got me off my dead butt and I had to go back and do a bit of research. I'm afraid that the infomation I was using is a bit dated. Lord I hate getting old.

We are both telling you that most tachs use a pulse count. The difference is how many pulses and where from. Up to mid 80s early 90s my info was good in most cases, but from that point his info takes over.

Also we had a beautiful weekend and I was able to get the ICE out of the big tractor and start building motor miounts and battery racks

Enough about that.

I'm sending you scans of the data sheet and box for the prox sensor that I am using on the two motors that I've set up to drive tachs. I've sucessesfully driven three different aftermarket tachs with this set up as well as my old tach/dwell meter.

I checked again on the wire color and position in the plug on the circuit board and you are supplying a pulse signal to the right wire.

What we don't know is if that is what that tach expects. The only way to be sure is to find a running original example and measure it. What is coming out of the PCM could be anything from a pulse count to a variable voltage.

My set up I've run the motors at 12 volts with this set up and get the correct RPM reading, about 1200 rpm. I used a four pole reluctor I made from a hole saw slug 2 inches in diameter. The tach was switch to the 4 pulse (8 cylinder) position.

I used the same 12 volt source to power the tach and the prox switch load went to the tach pulse sensor wire

Any way I hope the infomation helps


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

hi Jim, 

Did you check the max frequency on that prox? It looks like these inductive prox's in many cases, have a limit on switching which may be below what you need on the upper end. I can't read your spec sheets...as the type is too small.

Thanks for the info...

Gary


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> hi Jim,
> 
> Did you check the max frequency on that prox? It looks like these inductive prox's in many cases, have a limit on switching which may be below what you need on the upper end. I can't read your spec sheets...as the type is too small.
> 
> ...


Gary,

I was questioning that as well. I may be all wet, but here is what I figured

This sensor is rated at about 600hz (600 cycles per second) divided by 4 (4 pole reluctor) = 150 x 60 (60 seconds in a min.) = 9000 rpm 

My motor max, according to D&D is 5500, so my rev limiter is set to trip at 5000 rpm. These sensors are not real expensive so if I figured wrong I'll have a base line to look for the right one.

I'm afraid that I'm pretty primitive when it comes to electronics. My brother is the EE in the family. 

Specs fo the M2M8 sensor are as follows
power 10 - 30 volts.
Freq. PNP 600Hz
NPN 600 Hz
Current 200 mA

Seems to work, I will admit I didn't want to take the chance and kick the motor with 36 or 48 volts to run up the RPM without the controller in the circuit and trust the RPM limiter I made. I guess I just a big coward. 

I'm going to wait until I can at least load it with the brakes when I run it up.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy are you against making your own sensor? You can gut a relay and use it's coil and pot it with epoxy in a small pvc tube with just the tip of the lamination or core sticking out. Use a conduit clamp to hold it down. Then grab some of those little neo magnets radioshack has, drill some holes in your hub, and glue them in. This is what I did on my geo and it worked without a glitch. Adding a 100ohm resistor in series then a 12v zener after that in parallel will keep the peaks nice and flat. Much cheaper then a prox sensor.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> DIYguy are you against making your own sensor? You can gut a relay and use it's coil and pot it with epoxy in a small pvc tube with just the tip of the lamination or core sticking out. Use a conduit clamp to hold it down. Then grab some of those little neo magnets radioshack has, drill some holes in your hub, and glue them in. This is what I did on my geo and it worked without a glitch. Adding a 100ohm resistor in series then a 12v zener after that in parallel will keep the peaks nice and flat. Much cheaper then a prox sensor.


Lazzer.... thanks but, I only learn enough about electrical stuff to accomplish what I need... lol I can get prox's from used machines for free. I have a few different ones as well as a few reed switches that should also work. Lemme get back into it and see what I can figure out. I just don't want to change the sensor until I know if that is my problem or not.. and right now, I am not so sure. 

I do appreciate the help though and I will no doubt need some more with the electrical bits and pieces. 

Cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> With the vehicle's harness unplugged from the ecu, what is the ohm reading from the tan/yel to ground (key off) ?
> quote]
> 
> My meter goes up to 20M Ohm and I had no reading...so, it's an open circuit. Same reading with the plug in.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> lazzer408 said:
> 
> 
> > With the vehicle's harness unplugged from the ecu, what is the ohm reading from the tan/yel to ground (key off) ?
> ...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> DIYguy said:
> 
> 
> > Then how did your sensor's output drop to nothing when connected to the car? Faulty sensor?
> ...


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> lazzer408 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll bite.....how? lol
> ...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> DIYguy said:
> 
> 
> > what? It wasn't intended as a loaded or trick question. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I thought you said you lost your pulse from the sensor when you connected it's output to the vehicle?  If the vehicle is 20m (essentially infinity) then I wonder why you lost the output. If the sensor can't drive a 20m load something's up with it.
> ...


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> lazzer408 said:
> 
> 
> > It was just a bit of sarcastic humour...sorry buddy.
> ...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> His Ranger used different colors than the tan-yellow that carries the pulse to the instrument cluster. His used dk grn/yellow stripe. My '91 and your '97 use tan/yellow stripe.


OK, this is interesting. I did a quick continuity check from the tan/yellow stripe wire to the instrument cluster. It doesn't go there! There are three plugs into the back of the instrument panel C1 is the plug which controls the tach. No continuity between the tan/yellow and any pin on this plug. . .or any pin on any of the plugs on the instrument cluster. ?? Must be either a different wire..... or it goes to another device first. ?



tj4fa said:


> Also when I was trying to locate the right tach input wire, he told me to test it to see if it was the right one as follows. I traced the wire from the back of the tach to the plug on the firewall where it used to plug into the computer harness.


I will have to do this I suppose. 



tj4fa said:


> "...When you find the wire if you will strip a little insulation from the end, take a file and attach 12 volts to it and then drag the DG/Y (tan/yellow stripe) wire down the file lightly the tach should register rpm's. Take care when doing this that the file does not come in contact with any part of the truck. This is not an OSHA approved test method..."


This will be fun.... 

Here are a couple shots of what I have.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I think I will take the tach and connect my motor pulse generator directly to it and see if I can make it work. If it doesn't work that way....it wont work through all those freakin wires...


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> I think I will take the tach and connect my motor pulse generator directly to it and see if I can make it work. If it doesn't work that way....it wont work through all those freakin wires...


I can post the schematic if you like.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> I can post the schematic if you like.


That would be great! Thank you sir.

Gary


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

I have to zoom in for the screen shots to be readable. #13 power, #8 lighting, #15 signal.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks very much Lazzer. Looks pretty straight fwd. Not sure why I have no continuity between the wire at the PCM plug and the instrument cluster. How are your schematics categorized? By year/make/model? This schematic would cover which years? Models etc. ( I like to check the easy stuff first. lol)

There are three plugs on the back of my instrument panel. They are labeled C1, C2, C3. This diagram labels them C214, C215, C216. 

Do you know what the letters "IDMPW" stand for on the Powertrain Control Module plug at pin # 48?

This will come in handy for sure.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

I'm using Mitchel OnDemand. It's automotive software that covers just about every year/make/model on the roads. I pulled up the diagrams for a '97 Mazda B4000. They also listed a B4000SE and it used the same wiring diagram as the B4000. I have yet to find an error in their diagrams. Unfortunatly it doesn't tell me what signal/waveform is on that wire.

I have seen UART (serial) data lines ran between the dash and ecu but when the OEMs do that it's more then just one gauge communicating over that line. It would be the whole cluster. Your cluster shows everything having it's own signal so it's highly unlikely just the tach would be fed with a data stream. I'm sure it's just a pulse.

Put the engine back in and test it.  j/k

Do you have a function generator? Feed it a square wave.

If I can make a suggestion. Try pulling the tach signal high (+12v) using a 1k resistor. Maybe your sensor's "output" is just a low-side switch? I've had to do this in the past to get factory tachs stable with aftermarket ECUs. Could be worth a shot and easy enough to try.

I have no idea what IDMPW would stand for. Ignition Driver Module Pulse Width? (shoots in the dark)


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> I'm using Mitchel OnDemand. It's automotive software that covers just about every year/make/model on the roads. I pulled up the diagrams for a '97 Mazda B4000. They also listed a B4000SE and it used the same wiring diagram as the B4000. I have yet to find an error in their diagrams. Unfortunatly it doesn't tell me what signal/waveform is on that wire.
> I have seen UART (serial) data lines ran between the dash and ecu but when the OEMs do that it's more then just one gauge communicating over that line. It would be the whole cluster. Your cluster shows everything having it's own signal so it's highly unlikely just the tach would be fed with a data stream. I'm sure it's just a pulse.


Good to know. I'm sure it's right as well as your suggestion. 



lazzer408 said:


> Put the engine back in and test it.  j/k


I considered that...for about a nanosecond.



lazzer408 said:


> Do you have a function generator? Feed it a square wave.


Function generator????? I know what a function is....and what a generator is..... but....  Are you kidding me? I'm a Welding guy! The only thing square wave we use is for TIG!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Oh! ya!... hold on, I do have a function generator!!! 

http://www.toolstation.com/images/library/stock/webbig/46564.jpg?rand=811593264


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Wow it'd be nice if I could read a wiring diagram today. lol I mis-marked the negitive terminal of the tach as L not - because I got lost in the connector numbering.  (corrected pic attached)

The data line diagrams for your truck show nothing going to the cluster. 

That tach is driven by a pulse.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> Wow it'd be nice if I could read a wiring diagram today. lol I mis-marked the negitive terminal of the tach as L not - because I got lost in the connector numbering.  (corrected pic attached)
> 
> The data line diagrams for your truck show nothing going to the cluster.
> 
> That tach is driven by a pulse.


Ok, so I will feed 12v + to 13, - to 8 (located on a different plug) and pulse to 15... and see what happens. 

If I recall, the back of the tach that plugs into the cluster backplane, has 4 pins engaging...not three. Will have to double check that.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Ok, so I will feed 12v + to 13, - to 8 (located on a different plug) and pulse to 15... and see what happens.
> 
> If I recall, the back of the tach that plugs into the cluster backplane, has 4 pins engaging...not three. Will have to double check that.


It shows 4 connections to the tach in the diagram. I'm guessing pin8 (-) travels through it to another pin to provide neg to some of the other gauges/lamps. The "charge gauge" must be a voltmeter? You'll see that read the voltage you put to 13(c214) and 8(c216). Then your sig-gen ground on 8(c216) and pulse on pin 15(c214).
Next thing would be to drive your sensor's output right to pin 15 and see if it springs to life. With power/ground/signal all available at the tach it wouldn't be hard to run a shielded cable from there right to the sensor.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> It shows 4 connections to the tach in the diagram. I'm guessing pin8 (-) travels through it to another pin to provide neg to some of the other gauges/lamps. The "charge gauge" must be a voltmeter? You'll see that read the voltage you put to 13(c214) and 8(c216). Then your sig-gen ground on 8(c216) and pulse on pin 15(c214).
> Next thing would be to drive your sensor's output right to pin 15 and see if it springs to life. With power/ground/signal all available at the tach it wouldn't be hard to run a shielded cable from there right to the sensor.


Sounds like a plan! 
Thanks Lazzer!


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Sounds like a plan!
> Thanks Lazzer!


DIYguy,

Sounds like you two guys are this >< close to sucsess.

Lazzer seems to be right on top of everything. Ive been following along. I'm a MOTOR information / Alldata guy (I help write the stuff). He has been about a page ahead of me with his research.

Are you using the file as a pulse generator as someonr suggested (a neat and simple idea) or something else. 

I can suggest a less elegant, quicky soulotion using a drill motor tied/strapped to a piece of wood. A two inch length of 1 x 1/8 flat stock with a hole drilled in the center. Put a bolt and nut through the center and clamp the resulting two pole reluctor into the chuck. A suitable plumbers strap bracket to hold a proximity sensor near the reluctor. Then wire as required and you will have a simple signal generator with a known rpm. 

Here is wishing you sucsess.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> DIYguy,
> 
> Sounds like you two guys are this >< close to sucsess.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jim! I appreciate the well wishes. I decided to take the instrument cluster out, move it to the motor department and since I now have my motor installed, I can use it directly to generate the signal. I figured that if it works this way...it has to work later.

cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> It shows 4 connections to the tach in the diagram. I'm guessing pin8 (-) travels through it to another pin to provide neg to some of the other gauges/lamps. The "charge gauge" must be a voltmeter? You'll see that read the voltage you put to 13(c214) and 8(c216). Then your sig-gen ground on 8(c216) and pulse on pin 15(c214).
> Next thing would be to drive your sensor's output right to pin 15 and see if it springs to life. With power/ground/signal all available at the tach it wouldn't be hard to run a shielded cable from there right to the sensor.


Verdict is.... SUCCESS! 
Two pulses per revolution and tach reads correctly for motor rpm! I'm very pleased as I won't have to change anything related to my pulse generator. The frequency is fine too... I mis-judged that. 3000 pulses per second is way more than enough. I checked out the back of the cluster with my meter and figured which pin was for what. # 13 and 15 were correct however, the ground was actually in the second position on the other connector... not sure why. You were right about the volt meter too. When I put 12 volts to the panel, it came up almost half way. There was a common ground as you mentioned. 

I actually shot a short video, or two rather. Not sure if I will have success uploading as last time I tried, the file size was too large.

I also took a few minutes to zero out my odometer.  This thing is due to start over again! lol


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Verdict is.... SUCCESS!
> Two pulses per revolution and tach reads correctly for motor rpm! I'm very pleased as I won't have to change anything related to my pulse generator. The frequency is fine too... I mis-judged that. 3000 pulses per second is way more than enough. I checked out the back of the cluster with my meter and figured which pin was for what. # 13 and 15 were correct however, the ground was actually in the second position on the other connector... not sure why. You were right about the volt meter too. When I put 12 volts to the panel, it came up almost half way. There was a common ground as you mentioned.


Wonderfreekingful. 

So it was 2 pulses afrer all. 

If you find out why the thing didn't work when you hooked the pulse generator signal lead to the tan and yellow lead, let me know. That thould have worked. I assume you did have the instrument cluster powered and pulse generator powered from the same source when you tested and you did have the tan/yellow disconnected from the PCM. Not that it matters, IT works . . . I'm just curious.



DIYguy said:


> I also took a few minutes to zero out my odometer.  This thing is due to start over again! lol


A hint here. Agencies which shall remain nameless get upset when you fool with a vehicles odometer. Like big fines or vacations in their facilities. 

Check with your States vehicle registration agency and see if they have a odometer replacement form and or sticker. If you go for inspection with a zeroed odometer and no sticker/form it might get sticky.

It may be a nothing problem in your state, but be SURE it is.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Wonderfreekingful.
> 
> So it was 2 pulses afrer all. .


yup, you were right about that... and I'm glad because I built my pulse generator based on your information.... and I don't have to change a thing. 



Jimdear2 said:


> If you find out why the thing didn't work when you hooked the pulse generator signal lead to the tan and yellow lead, let me know. That thould have worked. I assume you did have the instrument cluster powered and pulse generator powered from the same source when you tested and you did have the tan/yellow disconnected from the PCM. Not that it matters, IT works . . . I'm just curious..


I'll let you know... not sure why. I did exactly as you describe above.



Jimdear2 said:


> A hint here. Agencies which shall remain nameless get upset when you fool with a vehicles odometer. Like big fines or vacations in their facilities.
> 
> Check with your States vehicle registration agency and see if they have a odometer replacement form and or sticker. If you go for inspection with a zeroed odometer and no sticker/form it might get sticky.
> 
> It may be a nothing problem in your state, but be SURE it is.


Ya, they don't like it here in Canada either. I decided to go for it even though I was aware of that. I will just tell them about it and do the form or whatever they want. It aint gonna stop me.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Ya, they don't like it here in Canada either. I decided to go for it even though I was aware of that. I will just tell them about it and do the form or whatever they want. It aint gonna stop me.


Sorry I forgot you were Canadian, Aye. By the way I was born a youper, I beleive that's almost as good as a Canadian.

Just wanted to be sure you knew before the guys in the red coats came and fitted you for bracelets. Supprises can hurt.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Good to see it's working. I'm guessing your going to try injecting the pulse at the ECU's connector to see if it makes it to the cluster. There's nothing in the diagrams showing any sort of module between the ecu and cluster fwiw.
Interesting about the 2 pulses on a v6. At least now you know how to drive it.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> Good to see it's working. I'm guessing your going to try injecting the pulse at the ECU's connector to see if it makes it to the cluster. There's nothing in the diagrams showing any sort of module between the ecu and cluster fwiw.
> Interesting about the 2 pulses on a v6. At least now you know how to drive it.


Lazzer408,

I also was put off about that 2 pulse thing at first a while back until an engineer at VDO explained it to me. 

He said that many (most way back then) waste spark systems had only one of the coils tapped for tach signal, which as you know gives a two pulse signal per one revolution of the crank no matter how many cylinders. 

Back then they just kept driving the tach right from the coil, even those those that had coils that were driven from the PCM. It had to do with the fact that in those days most tachs were optional and all they needed to do was add a sub harness. Plus some models had different optional engines some with and some without distributors. 

Later when most models went distributorless they designed the signal generator within the PCM but just kept the tach technology the way it was, i.e. two pulse.

He said it put a lot of people with V6 and V8 engines off stride for a while when they were told to set their aftermarket tachs to 4 cylinder setting.

I guess that the engineers who designed the PCM just kept the using the things that worked.

Things didn't start getting exotic untill the late 90s

Glad you were able to help DIYguy out. We are in our heaviest publication cycle right now and I had to let outside research slide. Most OEMs don't keep data over 20 years online and I just didn't have time to go digging in the old manuals right now.


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> waste spark systems had only one of the coils tapped for tach signal, which as you know gives a two pulse signal per one revolution of the crank no
> matter how many cylinders.


Not true. It's late but I'll try to get this right. 

These numbers are 'per-revolution' events for 4-cycle multi-cylinder engines.

Number of power strokes per revolution:
4cyl - 2
6cyl - 3
8cyl - 4

Number of times the single coil fires in a distributor-based ignition system:
4cyl - 2
6cyl - 3
8cyl - 4

Number of times a coil fires (all coils) in a distributor-less (DIS) wasted-spark system:
4cyl - 2
6cyl - 3
8cyl - 4

Number of times a coil fires (all coils) in a distributorless coil-over-plug (DIS-COP) system:
4cyl - 2
6cyl - 3
8cyl - 4

I'm sure there are some DIS systems that use only one coil as a tach pulse. I don't doubt that. Many cars have the coil driver's tach output in parallel. Some cars don't even use a signal from the ignition system at all which is the case in DIYguy's Mazda. His tach pulse is generated by the ECU's software and, coincidentally, is the same pulse as the ignition system on a 4cyl. That's why his DIY 2-pole reluctor is working when driving the tach directly. I would not have guessed Mazda to do it that way and I was wrong in that aspect. In doing so they only have to make one tach for both 4cyl and 6cyl trucks. For shits and grins I'll have look up the B2200 for that year and see what it shows.
I wanted to clear this up, not for sake of argument, but to help others understand how tach pulses are generated. The "typical" pulse count is based on what the original engine was, 4 6 or 8. It is NOT 2 pulses for ANY engine and that needed to be cleared up before someone grenades an armature. With aftermarket tachs it's easiest to set the tach to 4cyl and use a 2-pole reluctor just as DIYguy has done for his factory tach. I dove in on DIYguy's thread because I feared he'd pop an armature due to inaccurate tach readings. Sorry to send you on a wild goose chase DIYguy. It was with the best intentions. I'm glad it all worked out correctly in the end.
I've been meaning to do a write-up with a drawing on how to make your own magnetic pickup coil and use neo magnets and 2 Radioshack components. I'll be doing that for my Mazda Protege EV this summer and I'll have lots of nice pics and a schematic for you guys. 

EDIT - The B2300 also uses the ECU generated tach pulse. That truck also had Mazda's 2 plug per cylinder setup and they offset the coil firing depending on engine load/rpm so that could explain why they chose to drive the tach off the ECU. The ignition system is to complicated to use direct ignition pulses for tach drive. Well that explains that vehicle. Only 1000s left to go! 

Jimdear: Here is that example I'm all to familiar with being a Miata owner. These DIS-wasted spark tach outputs are parallel for tach drive. I converted my Miata to COP using Toyata Corolla 1zz-fe coils and programed my ECU (aftermarket AEM) to fire them sequentially. I had to parallel all 4 coil outputs for correct tach drive.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> I dove in on DIYguy's thread because I feared he'd pop an armature due to inaccurate tach readings. Sorry to send you on a wild goose chase DIYguy. It was with the best intentions. I'm glad it all worked out correctly in the end.


No worries. I would not have relied on a false rpm reading either way. I have a hand held rpm meter so I could measure rpm accurately. I would have installed an aftermarket tach wired directly if I had to. Even calculated rpm vs markings on the speedo are a decent starting point I think. Either way, I appreciate all the help from both yourself and Jim and I think while I was the benefactor in this discussion, it was a good one for many people who are faced with similar challenges. 

It may seem strange for me to be excited about this little triumph... but the mechanical stuff seems straight fwd to me and since the electrical stuff is smoke and mirrors...it is a nice victory for the electrically challenged like me.  

Anyways, I will wring out the harness and see if I can determine which wire is correct at the PCM plug and why I had no success on the first attempt. I'll let everyone know what I come up with.

Cheers.

Gary


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

2 pulses...

Told you so.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yup, I decided to build the pulse generator for two pulses based on the info I had at the time... Thanks for that.

Well, I figured out why the tan/yellow wire at the PCM was open to the gauge cluster.... there is another plug along the way... I recall having to separate it when I pulled the engine. Turns out it wasn't plugged all the way in. It's one of those that has a screw in the middle and you can only fully engage the plug by threading the screw in. I did, and low and behold continuity.  I should have though of this before... Oh well.. I'm good to go now. Mystery solved. Lazzer and Jim, you guys were right on with the wiring diagram for this. Not sure why my pulse died on the meter when I connected to this wire that was open at the time though...?? oh well, doesn't matter.

cheers.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> I'm sure there are some DIS systems that use only one coil as a tach pulse. I don't doubt that. Many cars have the coil driver's tach output in parallel. Some cars don't even use a signal from the ignition system at all which is the case in DIYguy's Mazda. His tach pulse is generated by the ECU's software and, coincidentally, is the same pulse as the ignition system on a 4cyl. That's why his DIY 2-pole reluctor is working when driving the tach directly. I would not have guessed Mazda to do it that way and I was wrong in that aspect. In doing so they only have to make one tach for both 4cyl and 6cyl trucks. For shits and grins I'll have look up the B2200 for that year and see what it shows..


lazzer408,

HOOOORAY on it working out for DIYguy. 

We both are saying the same thing, we are just a generation apart in our training and background.

If you want to keep you tach in operation, the best I can say (again) is test it* BEFORE* you deICE



lazzer408 said:


> I wanted to clear this up, not for sake of argument, but to help others understand how tach pulses are generated. The "typical" pulse count is based on what the original engine was, 4 6 or 8. It is NOT 2 pulses for ANY engine and that needed to be cleared up before someone grenades an armature. With aftermarket tachs it's easiest to set the tach to 4cyl and use a 2-pole reluctor just as DIYguy has done for his factory tach. I dove in on DIYguy's thread because I feared he'd pop an armature due to inaccurate tach readings. Sorry to send you on a wild goose chase DIYguy. It was with the best intentions. I'm glad it all worked out correctly in the end.


Hopefully this will also help, especially on older vehicles, late 70s to early 90s

A waste spark system uses one coil for each pair of cylinders of an engine. A single waste spark coil produces two sparks (pulses) to its two assigned cylinders for each engine cycle. It does not matter how many cylinders the engine has, the ignition control is going to make that one single waste spark coil produce two sparks (pulses) per revolution. Each coil is indipendant of the other coils, If one coil fails the others will continue to work with their assigned cylinders

When using an aftermarket universal tach on a vehicle with a waste spark system the tach manufacturer will tell you to tap into the primary circuits of ONE of the waste spark coils and set the tach for four cylinders (unless the vehicle was wired with a dedicated tach wiring point as some were back then). You do this no matter how many cylinders the engine had. The one waste spark coil is going to produce 2 pulses per crankshaft revolution.

The systems I am used to worked like that. Simple stuff for a simpler time. The OEM ignition control modules would send the same firing pulse used for ONLY ONE of the waste spark coils to the tachometer. That way they only needed one tachometer motor for all waste spark type engines no matter how nmany cylinders. Plus that tach motor would work in a distributor type 4 cylinder vehicle. Two pulses per crank revolution

Lazzer408 I hadn't realized how radically things had changed until you got me off my dead butt to do some research. I appears now that the OEM OBDII PCMs use multi tooth crank sensors to generate high pulse rates per revolution for misfire sensing and precise ignition/fuel injection control. Tachs are now driven by artificial signals of some type generated within the PCM. Too complex for my tastes.

I reciently helped another EVer with an automatic transmission shift (lack of) problem. Turns out that Mazda had a 35 tooth pulse wheel that generated signals for both engine and transmission (the programmer and god only knows what else it went to) control. He had to build a 35 tooth reluctor for his motor to get the trans to shift. I beleive he also sait that also got the tach working OEM style. He had made his own driver system for the tach, I think it was a two pulse but I would need to ask him to be sure.

I've heard the Saturn uses 0 to 5 volts to drive their tach. 

I wonder if anyone is using smoke signals?

*BEST ADVICE - *
*FIND OUT HOW IT WORKS AND WHAT YOU NEED TO KEEP BEFORE YOU REMOVE THE ENGINE*

For myself, my aftermarket tach works on my motor using a simple industrial prox sensor (about $9.00 on eBay). These proximity sensors are designed for hostile environments so it and it's cable are pretty much weather sealed. The reluctor is home made from a piece of scrap metal. So with bracket metal and screws total cost about $10.00

The prox sensor is quite able to handle the frequency's required to produce the number of pulses needed to run the tach I am using. 

I initially set up a the system using a two pulse reluctor (a piece of 1/2 x 1/8 flat stock with a hole drilled through the center and bolted to the tail shaft). This two pulse system worked fine, if a little wobbly at really low rpm

I later built a 4 pulse reluctor for better resolution at low rpm. See attached picture. Also just for fun I plan to run the tach in the four cylinder position, watch their eyes pop out when they see the motor turm 11000 rpm.

Since I am using this prox sensor setup for motor runaway protection as well as driving the tach. I wanted somthing reliable. I have been testing the setup for quite a while and it works flawlessly

Have a good one,


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Yup, I decided to build the pulse generator for two pulses based on the info I had at the time... Thanks for that.
> 
> Well, I figured out why the tan/yellow wire at the PCM was open to the gauge cluster.... there is another plug along the way... I recall having to separate it when I pulled the engine. Turns out it wasn't plugged all the way in. It's one of those that has a screw in the middle and you can only fully engage the plug by threading the screw in. I did, and low and behold continuity.  I should have though of this before... Oh well.. I'm good to go now. Mystery solved. Lazzer and Jim, you guys were right on with the wiring diagram for this. Not sure why my pulse died on the meter when I connected to this wire that was open at the time though...?? oh well, doesn't matter.
> 
> cheers.


Great News,

The problem is solved, 
The mystery is solved, 
My question of why has been answered,
It didn't rain today,
I got the motor aligned in the tractor and the mounts roughed in,
I'm still breathing,

WHAT A GOOD DAY


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Great News,
> 
> The problem is solved,
> The mystery is solved,
> ...


And peace be heard across the land. 

number of cylinders still matters (cough cough)


----------



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Turns out it wasn't plugged all the way in.


Homer couldnt have -doh!- any better.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Soooo, it been a while since I posted. Been working out of town. I managed to put the dash back together... and the tach workes fine now. I finished up my motor mount and painted it then set the motor in place hopefully for the last time... .and buttoned everything up. Cleaned up under the hood some too. Removed the remains of the hydraulic clutch and decided to finally pull out my OEM AC compressor. I still plan on having AC eventually...although not decided on method yet. 

I used the original motor mounts as a base to build from. I cut the back half of them off and kept some nice mount holes on the front for my regen alternator. Pic before and after paint.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lets see what it looks like in place...........It sure looks small compared to that ICE! lol. Check out my tach generator wire ... i drilled a hole to bring it out the flange of the motor on the drive end.... the yellow wire.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I also mounted the rear shocks.... I'll snap a pic in a minute.....
I actually painted all the shocks. They rust really quickly as the stock paint is barely a colouring. I used the same paint as I used on the motor.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I also picked up my 2/0 lugs with 1/4 hole. I have the 2/0 cable also and a bit of 4/0 for the long runs. I'll have to start making up my cables soon. I'm thinking of putting a contactor between every 4 batteries...to limit voltage to 48. 50 volts is the typical limit for ESA inspection safety. If I do this....there will never be more than 50 volts present unless charging or driving.... thoughts?

Gary


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

Nice work on solving the tach problem Gary. Also that motor mount looks great, I need one just like that... I don't have much faith in the one i built myself, but it is doing the job for now.
Those contactors may be a good idea, especially if you can get them for free, however, they won't often be used because it is a good idea to leave it plugged in to float charge the batteries even when they are full.
What i've done is used anderson connectors to separate the front pack from the rear pack. (48V and 96V) I suppose if exceeding 50V was a problem, I could add another anderson connector inbetween the 8 rear batteries. Right now that is were my fuse is.

I gotta say those AGM batteries you referred me to are awesome. (especially for the price) I think you'll be pleased with yours.

So it has been a month since your last post, have you gone on any test drives yet? 

I've been driving my truck around and it has been great, just gotta work out the actual range so I can build a proper fuel guage.
I'm actually getting bored of this project now that it is working. I need to find a paying job.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Joel said:


> Nice work on solving the tach problem Gary. Also that motor mount looks great, I need one just like that... I don't have much faith in the one i built myself, but it is doing the job for now.
> Those contactors may be a good idea, especially if you can get them for free, however, they won't often be used because it is a good idea to leave it plugged in to float charge the batteries even when they are full.
> What i've done is used anderson connectors to separate the front pack from the rear pack. (48V and 96V) I suppose if exceeding 50V was a problem, I could add another anderson connector inbetween the 8 rear batteries. Right now that is were my fuse is.
> 
> ...


 Hey Joel,
Nice to hear from you. Thanks for the feedback. I'm really glad to hear the feedback on the batteries. It was an awesome price and I was hoping for good performance. So, did you end up buying 12 of them? I wonder how far I will get on 16? Other than energy density, there are a few good benefits over vented floodies. 

Yes, It's been a while. I have gotten little bits done here and there, but am frustrated that I can't make a big dent in it. I don't have all that much to do...even though I do tend to spend too much time on details. 

I've was working in Detroit for a while, setting up the welding on an automated line for the Ford Fusion. It has been mostly manually welded up till now..in Mexico. Last weekend, Friday to Sunday was WOSA swimming champs for my daughter...and I am leaving in a few min for a baseball tournament Fri-Sun with my son. 

I'm interested to know more about your balancers. Brian Blocher is building some (for AGMs) that I will likely buy. I would like to get the Manzanita, but it is soo expensive. I'm working on something with Dave Kois that may work out. 

Hopefully I can get this thing done soon. Thanks for touching base.

Gary


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

I have 12 batteries, I think 16 should give you 33% more range than me, so that suggests 80km. (if mine is 60)

the balancers you are talking about are here: (for anyone else who is reading this)
http://www.voltblocher.com

the balancers i built are very similar/same as his, the main difference is that I don't have a resistor, so that means i can shunt more current... though the fets and their heat sinks get really hot.
They only turn on when the voltage hits 14.7V. This is within the range for their cycle gas voltage (data sheet says 14.2-14.9)
In the case of my charger, it will hold this stage for 3 hrs (constant voltage), then go to a float stage.

I also incorporated a 10A fuse for each module (inline fuse) in case anything goes wrong. I am also planning on tapping into these modules for battery monitoring.
Mine worked out to be about the same price as his cheapest, so he isn't making much money on the kits.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Joel said:


> I have 12 batteries, I think 16 should give you 33% more range than me, so that suggests 80km. (if mine is 60)
> 
> the balancers you are talking about are here: (for anyone else who is reading this)
> http://www.voltblocher.com


yes, interesting since I calculated 75 - 80km with my pack. 

Brian has the voltblocher out now for AGM's shunting higher currents...so I ordered 16 this morning. I may be a DIY'er.... but I bought these assembled. I don't have that much time/patience right now...lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So I finished two more battery boxes. That makes 3 done for a total of 13 batteries and one more to build for under the hood holding 3 batteries for a total of 16. Good thing I beefed up them rear springs....lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I kept the bolt-in design concept for all boxes building a full frame to enclose them. Fir, exterior grade plywood with a coat of Thompson's water seal... Bubble wrap-foil insulation as well. I spray paint the wood after the water seals dries up so they are cammo. I won't need hold down straps with this design but will add a hold down bar across the middle to keep them from jiggling around or, god forbid, falling out in case of overturn.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I ordered 16 AGM voltbochers from Brian this morning also. He now has them up on his website and available.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

the boxes look great.. very sturdy


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> the boxes look great.. very sturdy


Thanks Pat..... I did some bracing underneath also...just in case of any impact. It's one thing to have a structure strong enough to hold the weight...it's quite another to have one strong enough to withstand a significant impact. I snap a pic from underneath to show the brace (also bolt on) up to trans x-mbr.

cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I made up and installed a bunch of mu battery cables today. I am using 2/0 superflex (more strands) welding cable for all the interconnections and 4/0 for the home runs. I borrowed Jim Dear's suggestion for making my own lug covers out of some plastic hose material. I could get spec on it if anyone is interested. I just had to lube it a bit to get it over the lug.

I cut a "T" into the tubing as shown in pics and it opens up nicely as a cover. I then used a red or black tie wrap (don't really need them for holding) which shows positive vs negative. Its nice that you can fold them back for attachment. Some pics below..


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Hey, I like those cover flaps that the hose makes. Where do we find those plastic hoses of the proper size for 2/0 and hopefully in both colors. I'd use them on my battery cables even if I already have shrink wrap on the ends.
> 
> Very nice and an added safety feature.
> 
> Pete


Hey Pete,

I bought the tubing at Canadian Tire. It's made by Watts, called Vinyl Tubing 3/4 OD X 5/8" ID. I think it is used for landscaping ponds and such. They only had black in stock though.

Cheers.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Hey, I like those cover flaps that the hose makes. Where do we find those plastic hoses of the proper size for 2/0 and hopefully in both colors. I'd use them on my battery cables even if I already have shrink wrap on the ends.
> 
> Very nice and an added safety feature.
> 
> Pete


Pete, 

I went to the local hardware store with a piece of my HV wiring and found some clear vinal tubing in the plumbing section that would slip over the wire, Clear so you could see the color of the heat shrink tube I used on the wire.

I never thought to go back to the farm and gardening supply sections.

I could only afford red wire (got a deal)  so I bought lengths of black and red, thick wall glue impregnated shrink tube to identify positive and negitive ends of the cable. One of the problems with the clear vinal tube I found is it is thick and stiff.  The stuf that DIYguy found seems to work better, Although with out some in my hand I can't say for sure. The collored tie wrap are a nice touch. I was thinking about some of that self vulcanizing colored tape (pricy stuff) 

The results sure look better then mine.

Pass it on.

Jim


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I did some more battery wiring. I needed 4/0 cable lugs with a 1/4 in hole for the battery screw. They are available....but I would have to order and the store I went to never sold them before. He told me the crimp on lugs would be at least $ 9.00 each! I said no thanks. 

I went and picked up some solder on welding lugs for under $3...these unfortunately have a 1/2 through hole. With a little re-forming, I turned the one in the top of the pic to the one in the bottom of the pic.  I want to stress the importance of not skimping on contact area of these terminals. Do not use oversize holes on these connections! This is even a bigger issue with lower voltage cells like lithium. 

I also found some larger vinyl tubing that fit...although like Jim, this had a thicker wall. A little lube and some heat and it worked out fine.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Oh yes, the 4/0 is running through sealtite also. 

One more thing.... don't crimp on "solder type" lugs. Some say you can, but the wall thickness is not designed to hold a crimp....solder them on.

.....that's the world according to me... 

...Bailey thinks I'm crazy too! ...lol lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Did some work on my last battery box. It's actually going to be three individual battery boxes connected together. Two at the same level, just behind the rad mount and the third between them ...but down low between the frame rails to free up space and keep c of g low as possible.

This is just the first two joined.....work in progress here....


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I thought the general consensus was not to solder battery connections? The solder being brittle, creating a hard spot in the cable, and possibly softening under high amp draw.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I thought the general consensus was not to solder battery connections? The solder being brittle, creating a hard spot in the cable, and possibly softening under high amp draw.


That may very well be the consensus here.... wasn't aware of it. 

My thread is just the "the world according to me" lol 

Actually, (not wanting to rain on anyone's parade  ) but coming from the industrial manufacturing sector... I've seen solder-on cable lugs perform for many years in much more demanding applications than this. 4/0 on 500 - 600 amp DC high duty cycle (steady current draw) and a lot of movement also. I have no concerns. Although, most of my connections are crimped because it is easier and faster. Personally, I believe the contact area of the lug is a much bigger area for concern. I have a lot of experience with RSW (resistance spot welding) where the use of 1200 to 1500 mcm cables and 20 - 30 KA is common. The connections need to be very clean, often have surface coatings of silver, use SS fasteners (mainly due to coefficient of thermal expansion...so they don't loosen from heating/cooling) and the use of a conduction grease (often called silver grease or solid-oil grease) is used to maintain a good connection over time. Low resistance ohm-meters are used to identify "bad" connections... and these would be any that are in excess of 40 micro-ohms. The lower the voltage... the more concern this is in high current applications. So... for those using lithium...I would make extra certain the connections are sound. Checking them often for heat after heavy use is also wise. We use to use a thermal heat gun (infra-red) while running to identify hot spots.

cheers.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Your personal experience beats hearsay


----------



## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I second the non contact thermometer advice, as most of us don't have a low ohm reading ohmeter  infra-red thermometers are not too expensive and well worth the investment.
I have found a few bad connections before they became a major problem.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

elevatorguy said:


> I second the heat gun advice, as most of us don't have a low ohm reading ohmeter  They are not too expensive and well worth the investment.
> I have found a few bad connections before they became a major problem.


True. The low resistance ohm meters are quite expensive. I think I last paid several thousand dollars. They also use duplex hand spikes (two wires to each one) for testing across a connection without undoing it.... when physically possible. I think Biddle is a name that rings a bell.... The heat test is a good indicator. I am using all SS screws. Adhere to torque requirements and clean lightly with 000 steel wool prior to assy.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Received my motor blower in the mail today. It's a marine 12 volt bilge vent blower. 8 amp, 125 cfm squirel cage (centrifugal fan). I paid $40 Cdn + shipping.

Also received my voltblochers today.  Thanks Brian. Nice job. Well packaged. Clean.

cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Did more work on my last battery box. It's finally constructed....I just have to finish lightening it and paint it. Ofcourse I need to line it and inuslate it also. Like the others, it will also be removeable and mount with screws/bolts. This one had very tight tolerances as there was little room to fit everything. The lower battery had to be tilted about 6 degrees to clear.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Painted.... and lined with fir plywood.  I drilled the frame of the truck also..two bolts per leg (4) for a total of 8 - 3/8" SS fasteners. I'll have to snap a pic of that. 
The batter frame drops straight in from above and gloves the front frame rails on the outside as well as resting on the top surface with reinforced pads. It's very close to the AC rad... I may have to move that fwd a bit if/when I get the AC going there is not enough air flow through it. I've pretty much blocked off at least 1/3 of the area. Thoughts? I'll snap a pic of that when I get it back in....

Cheers.
edit..... just over 200 holes drilled... took off just under 1 lb. ... but it looks neat! c'mon ...help me out here.... convince me I didn't waste too much time.....


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey Gary,

Looks great! Is it worth it? 200 holes for 1 pound of weight reduction. I hope you were able to use a post drill rather than a hand drill!

It's always worth it if you're happy with the end result.

I think you will beat me to the finish line, but it will be close. I'm completing batt boxes now. I've received the Belktronix stuff. Did I tell you that Bryan tested the controller and WarP 9 at 220 ft.lbs at 830A?

BTW thanks again for the care package!

Rob


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> edit..... just over 200 holes drilled... took off just under 1 lb. ... but it looks neat! c'mon ...help me out here.... convince me I didn't waste too much time.....


Lunatic  How about just skipping desert


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RKM said:


> Hey Gary,
> 
> Looks great! Is it worth it? 200 holes for 1 pound of weight reduction. I hope you were able to use a post drill rather than a hand drill!


Hand drill, unfortunately. I decided to do it after it was built. It just seemed so bulky for 3 batteries.... but I think the "under-hood" appearance is worth something. (talking myself into it...lol)



RKM said:


> It's always worth it if you're happy with the end result.


 thank you! thank you! lol



RKM said:


> I think you will beat me to the finish line, but it will be close. I'm completing batt boxes now. I've received the Belktronix stuff.


Gee I dunno. I get a Sat or Sun here and there and maybe one night through the week. This week is toast and next weekend is another 3 day ball tournament.  


RKM said:


> Did I tell you that Bryan tested the controller and WarP 9 at 220 ft.lbs at 830A?


Yes, that is awesome. I have a good feeling about Bryan's stuff. I think you will not be disappointed. As you know... I was very close to buying his stuff. I hope my controller works out too. Darius does not have a dyno for testing.... that I know of. Mine does have over 1000 amps of IGBT capacity so... it should hold 800 amps for some period of time depending on temp I guess.... doh't know if I can drive it that high either.



RKM said:


> BTW thanks again for the care package!


 My pleasure. I hope you can use some of it. The proximity switch worked out real well for me.. .so I threw in a few diff ones for you. There is also a reed switch there if I remember correctly.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Lunatic  How about just skipping desert


hehehehe.... good one. I think I may have lost a pound myself also...doing that job...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Finally! I have all 1600 lbs of batteries in that slug of a truck! lol. It sits just fine too. The extra heavy leaf on the back made all the difference I think. The front is no heavier...actually a bit lighter than it was with the ICE. Now I can start laying out my main components. I really like the way I was able to keep the center of the motor bay pretty clear. I still have lots to mount...but it's kinda nice to see the motor... at least for now. 

I snapped a pic of one of the battery box to frame mounts also.

Man, this BB camera sucks..... makes things look terrible..... 

cheers.


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Man, you've got a ton of space in that engine bay! Should be a piece of cake to mount the remaining components. 

Did you have any trouble keeping the bubble foil in place while you lowered the batts in place? How are you going to secure the batts to the box? Box covers? Cable entrance and exit?

I have three boxes arranged in a "U" as well. I've been wondering about using copper straps to interconnect between the three (versus cable). The boxes are at differing heights, so would have to bend the straps into "S" shape. I priced copper strap at $119 for 12' of 1" X .125". Too pricey. Would flattening 3/4 or 1" copper pipe do the job?

Still can't believe you drilled those 200 holes by hand. What's more, they appear to be in a very straight line! Hard to do by hand.

take care.

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RKM said:


> Gary,
> 
> Man, you've got a ton of space in that engine bay! Should be a piece of cake to mount the remaining components.


Yes, there actually is quite a bit of space left.... I do plan on a large re-wired re-gen alternator in the middle.. plus the cooling fan and the other necessities. My breaker is huge compared to most also. (250 volt though)


RKM said:


> Did you have any trouble keeping the bubble foil in place while you lowered the batts in place? How are you going to secure the batts to the box? Box covers? Cable entrance and exit?


I used some staples then lubricated the bubble wrap and the batteries. First time I used liquid soap, second time I used silicone spray lube. The soap worked best. Need to make sure staples are set deep enough too. The batteries are actually very snug in the boxes and would not come out unless I turned the truck up-side-down. But u never know... so, I will come up with a hold down bar of some kind. I just need to get my volt-blochers mounted first. Since the boxes are the same height as the batts... the cables will just go over the top. 


RKM said:


> I have three boxes arranged in a "U" as well. I've been wondering about using copper straps to interconnect between the three (versus cable). The boxes are at differing heights, so would have to bend the straps into "S" shape. I priced copper strap at $119 for 12' of 1" X .125". Too pricey. Would flattening 3/4 or 1" copper pipe do the job?


Been thinking about this a bit also. It has advantages for vertical clearance but still needs to insulated with shrink wrap or something. I think I will use the cable. If I did use copper flat bar..it would only be on the three front boxes. As for covers.. I haven't decided yet. Ideas?


RKM said:


> Still can't believe you drilled those 200 holes by hand. What's more, they appear to be in a very straight line! Hard to do by hand.


I measured and marked with a liquid paper pencil. Then drilled each hole with three different bit sizes... starting with a small one ending with a 10 mm one. It is faster than boring large holes I find. (still kinda stupid...lmao)


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks Pat..... I did some bracing underneath also...just in case of any impact. It's one thing to have a structure strong enough to hold the weight...it's quite another to have one strong enough to withstand a significant impact. I snap a pic from underneath to show the brace (also bolt on) up to trans x-mbr.
> 
> cheers.


I forgot to post a pic of the bracing underneath. I think I may be able to use it to help fasten a belly pan to, at some point also.
SS fasteners here also.....


----------



## fritzgutten (Jul 4, 2009)

can you comment the photo, i dont know what i'm looking at, namely I am being distracted by the shiny substance across the bottom of the photograph, what material is this? I am unfamiliar with its appearance. It cant be steel, steel is a dusty red color with all types of pits in it and it cant be aluminum, aluminum has a white fluffy surface. Just WHAT am i looking at ?


----------



## Alhaxit (Feb 17, 2009)

fritzgutten said:


> can you comment the photo, i dont know what i'm looking at, namely I am being distracted by the shiny substance across the bottom of the photograph, what material is this? I am unfamiliar with its appearance. It cant be steel, steel is a dusty red color with all types of pits in it and it cant be aluminum, aluminum has a white fluffy surface. Just WHAT am i looking at ?


umm the concrete floor??


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

fritzgutten said:


> can you comment the photo, i dont know what i'm looking at, namely I am being distracted by the shiny substance across the bottom of the photograph, what material is this? I am unfamiliar with its appearance. It cant be steel, steel is a dusty red color with all types of pits in it and it cant be aluminum, aluminum has a white fluffy surface. Just WHAT am i looking at ?


I don't know what ur lookin at either. Epoxy covered concrete does have a bit of a sheen.
It's a piece of 3/4"x1/8" angle that extends from the drive shaft hanger bearing X-member rearward to the bottom of the battery boxes that sit just behind the cab...down between the frame rails. The brace, like all the steel I have added, is painted with a high-tech rust inhibitive paint..... so,....it's BLACK. I took a couple more pics JUST FOR YOU, man.  

The first shot shows the brace connected to the battery box...the second, to the x-mbr.

YEs, that really is a basketball in the background.


----------



## fritzgutten (Jul 4, 2009)

whew, thanks, that was my next big question....is that a ... BASKETBALL? 

I get it now, i think i was out of reference on the first one. yeah i feel dumb
you do some top notch stuff man. love the attention to detail.
when you gonna drive it?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

fritzgutten said:


> whew, thanks, that was my next big question....is that a ... BASKETBALL?
> 
> I get it now, i think i was out of reference on the first one.
> you do some top notch stuff man. love the attention to detail.
> ...


Thanks man... there are some compromises...after all, it is a MAzda pick up truck.... 

Geesh, should a been driving it by now I think. Sports, lots of sports stuff. + no holidays this summer yet. Normally I would take several weeks off and could probably wrap up most of it in one week. There isn't all THAT much left to do, ...at least to drive it that is. If if works the way I hope,... I will spend some more $ and dress it up a bit with paint and wheels...and maybe some nice interior stuff. . . Maybe some LiFePo too.... we'll see. What is ever really "DONE" anyways???? 

One point worth mentioning....there are some conversion speed demons out there... and sometimes I'm a little envious. On the other hand, putting batteries under the bed instead of inside of it...as an example....requires many weeks of work. I just don't want too many regrets. Detail work and a speedy conversion are kindof mutually exclusive...at least in my garage.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

fritzgutten said:


> whew, thanks, that was my next big question....is that a ... BASKETBALL?
> 
> I get it now, i think i was out of reference on the first one. yeah i feel dumb
> you do some top notch stuff man. love the attention to detail.
> when you gonna drive it?


Yeah, it took me a second of look to get what was in the photo. 
I think it was working out the orientation and deciding that the long red thing wasn't part of the cabling inside the vehicle. The previous photos were all downwards onto the batteries and this one was across the underside of the chassis.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Torque damper....*

Here is another pic for you...can you figure out what it is? 

I rescued this little torque damper shock from the ICE and gave it a new home...but with the same purpose. I figure if the ICE mounts/motor needed this .... the electric motor will as well. I had to clean it up and paint it ...like the other shocks and stuff. That is 1.5 x 1/8 angle with another 1" angle welded inside it...to make a box section for most of the length between the shock and mount bolts. Thought some folks might be interested.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice progress. Cute little shock absorber, I wonder if it was more of a vibration damper than torque control? Hard to tell from here but it looks as if it would have too much travel to stop torque movement.


----------



## DaveAK (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: Torque damper....*



DIYguy said:


> Here is another pic for you...can you figure out what it is?
> 
> I rescued this little torque damper shock from the ICE and gave it a new home...but with the same purpose. I figure if the ICE mounts/motor needed this .... the electric motor will as well. I had to clean it up and paint it ...like the other shocks and stuff. That is 1.5 x 1/8 angle with another 1" angle welded inside it...to make a box section for most of the length between the shock and mount bolts. Thought some folks might be interested.


Now I read somewhere with regard to motor mounts that the rubber bushes weren't needed for an electric motor because it didn't move like an ICE did. This was on someone's conversion and basically they fixed the motor mount directly to the chassis or existing mount points, but without the rubber. I thought this sounded dubious as I can't see how there wouldn't be a reaction to the transmission/driveline. Anyone care to comment?

Is that shock OEM equipment? Never seen one in an engine damping system before.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Torque damper....*



DaveAK said:


> Now I read somewhere with regard to motor mounts that the rubber bushes weren't needed for an electric motor because it didn't move like an ICE did. This was on someone's conversion and basically they fixed the motor mount directly to the chassis or existing mount points, but without the rubber. I thought this sounded dubious as I can't see how there wouldn't be a reaction to the transmission/driveline. Anyone care to comment?


I would use rubber mounts on the motor.

This is partly because the gearbox is rubber mounted anyway and so would have a range of movement as the car drives over bumps on the road. If it is rigidly fixed to the motor and the motor is rigidly fixed to the chassis then that movement has to create stresses somewhere else.

I think it is better to have the motor and gearbox together and rubber mounted so that it is unstressed as a unit.

The other option is to mount the whole motor gearbox unit rigidly to the chassis but that would then allow gear noise to enter the passenger compartment and, if the vehicle went over a hard bump, it could stress the mountings especially if they were onto sheet metal on a monocoque body.

The other point is that the body shell and chassis of most cars are designed to flex a little and that flexing would also need to be absorbed by the motor and gearbox mounts as the motor gearbox unit wouldn't have any flex at all.

All in all, I would recommend keeping rubber mountings.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I would agree with Woodsmith on this issue. I have re-used the same mounting arrangement as was used with the ICE. The original mounts offer damping and some movement. The little shock (JRP3 & DaveAK) is OEM and was mounted on an arm that extended all the way to the outside of the frame rail.... this makes me think that it was to dampen torque although you have a good point with respect to vibration... perhaps both? Ive seen shocks used for this on other vehicles. The support arm to the shock was very heavy duty and with the distance (length of arm) I think the travel was suitable for torque control. 

The electric motor will react much like the ICE with respect to torque, so I decided to use the stock mounting arrangement as much as possible. I was able to do this.

Regards,
Gary


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The other thing with stock mounts is that they are designed so that the angle of all the mounts together absorb the weight and the rotational torque in the correct plane of motion. That means that the rubber mounts suffer the least stress in life and do their job more efficiently working properly in the right combination of compression and shear.
It is a bit like suspension rubbers, they work in unison around a common roll centre to properly control the movement of the vehicle.

I've some home built engine mounts that look more like exhaust mounts operating in 100% shear and that is not good. 100% compression isn't good either as it allows uncontrolled lateral movement.

There is a whole science around engine mountings.


----------



## Joel (Jul 29, 2008)

I also agree, I kept the rubber mounts on mine, however, just to add a comment, I met with Steve Clunn of green shed conversions. He does conversions professionally, full-time, and he said that he did it this way at first, but after he figured a way to create an adapter plate that allows perfect balance between the motor and the transmission, there was no vibration at all. (I guess this includes the gear box)

He now mounts the motor directly to the chassis. I understand what you are saying about shock absorbing though, (and torque buffering), bumps on the road and the like might be bad for the gears, but I suppose they are designed for that.
He now uses logarithmic throttles (i built my own) to eliminate any sudden torque spikes at the start, minimizing the stress on the non-rubber mounts he installs.

I'm can't say weather this is good/bad right/wrong, I'm just adding another perspective.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Joel said:


> I understand what you are saying about shock absorbing though, (and torque buffering), bumps on the road and the like might be bad for the gears, but I suppose they are designed for that.


The drive train will cope fine with the shock torque loads through the gears themselves. 
However, as the vehicle bounces over, say, a pothole in the road a rubber mounted gearbox will physically bounce a little on its rubbers. That would add a bending moment to any rigid mountings on the motor. Over many miles on the road the mounts or the parts they are attached to will fatigue and fail.

I would still go with either rubber mounting the whole drive train in an ordinary chassis or rigidly mounting the whole drive train in a very stiff chassis. A mix of rubber and rigid will only cause fatigue failures later on.


----------



## DaveAK (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks for the replies! Sorry to hijack the thread.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got another piece of the puzzle in the post today.  Not many pieces left to get.... buying stuff is the easy part...lol

I know there are lots of opinions on how/what to use for vacuum. Personally, I have been saving on lots of DIY stuff...but I really want the quiet and reliability. I kinda liked the ease of installation also, also that wasn't the main reason to get the MES-DEA Vacuum.

edit...ok, will have to grab another pic, that didn't work.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Is this any good as a vacuum pump? Ebay VW vacuum pump.
I wasn't sure if it was for brakes or for other controls.

I am thinking of maybe getting one of these  Ford Transit vacuum pumps and putting a motor to it.
I don't know if that would be any good either.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Soooo, I finally got the MES-Dea vacuum pump and mounted it. It's not plumbed and wired....but I powered it. It's very smooth and quiet.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I also laid out the high power side of my control board. I kinda like it. It's not quite finished...but the pics will give you and idea. I wanted to keep the weather off of it. Still more to do with the plastic. You can see two 800 amp shunts, one on the battery side, one on the motor side. These are from DC weld power supplies.

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Anyone else getting an "Invalid attachment" message when they click on the controller? Never mind, I was clicking as you were editing.
Why 2 contactors? What fuse are you using? What's the giant circuit breaker you're using?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Try again. I had to re-size pics.... should be ok now.


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Soooo, I finally got the MES-Dea vacuum pump and mounted it. It's not plumbed and wired....but I powered it. It's very smooth and quiet.


have you heard a Gast pump? I wonder how it compares noise-wise.. For future projects sake, that is.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> have you heard a Gast pump? I wonder how it compares noise-wise.. For future projects sake, that is.


No, I'm sorry Patrick, I haven't. I wish I could offer some comparison. I have just gone with all that i have read and some research and decided to go this way.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't think you saw these questions as I was editing as you were editing so pardon the repost:
Why 2 contactors? 
What fuse are you using? 
What's the giant circuit breaker you're using?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I don't think you saw these questions as I was editing as you were editing so pardon the repost:
> Why 2 contactors?
> What fuse are you using?
> What's the giant circuit breaker you're using?


Hey JRP,

Ya,...little mixup there. 
Two contactors are just for redundancy.
The fuse is likely too large at 800 amps but the price was right. I think it's a Shawmut. I have smaller ones separating the pack. The breaker is a big honker...however, have you seen another one on here that will handle 250 volts? I haven't found anyone using higher voltage who has a breaker. This one can be used for 3 phase AC or DC (two wire), it has adjustable current trip points and delay. It also has remote shunt trip feature so, my red mushroom button on the dash will trip this breaker.
The two shunts are obviously to compare current on motor side and battery side. 

Cheers,


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Oh yes, I also have a cable and handle throw attachment(remote throw and reset) for the breaker, I may mount it for service work.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What's the amp rating on the breaker, where did you get it, and how much?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> What's the amp rating on the breaker, where did you get it, and how much?


Its called a 250 Amp/600 VAC 3 pole, 250VDC motor circuit protector. Made by Cutler Hamer. It has instantaneous trip current settings (9 steps) from 1125 amps up to 2250 amps. 
Model HMCP250L5WS10 if u wanna look it up. 

For DC u just use the outside two poles.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Ouch, the only price I could find for it shows list price of $2967.00, our price $860.43!  Is that for real?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Ouch, the only price I could find for it shows list price of $2967.00, our price $860.43!  Is that for real?


Ya, I expect that's about right. If you really want one.... PM me, I may be able to do some magic.


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey Gary,

I've been away for a few days.... wow, great progress! The control board looks great. Is the enclosure polycarbonate or acrylic? What have you used to cement the joints? Where did you find the copper bus bar? Will you finish my conversion for me? (kidding)

Looking good.

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RKM said:


> Hey Gary,
> 
> I've been away for a few days.... wow, great progress! The control board looks great. Is the enclosure polycarbonate or acrylic? What have you used to cement the joints? Where did you find the copper bus bar? Will you finish my conversion for me? (kidding)
> 
> ...


Hi Rob, nice to hear from you. Ya, I know the feeling ... I was in Mexico for a week working also. This is acrylic material, at least the thin stuff is on top, I think the thick is also although I didn't buy it. I haven't secured all the joints yet but I plan to drill and screw the side pieces from the bottom of the UHMW plastic base and likely will hinge the top for service. It will help keep the splashing/weather out I hope.

I got two pieces of copper from work and actually cut one lengthwise on the table saw and the other across on the miter saw...both with old carbide blades. Drilled and tapped some holes and presto...lol

I peaked in on your build thread the other day... the only help you need comes from what I can't give you.... time.  Nice looking battery boxes you have there young man.... 

cheers.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

This is the charger that I decided to go with. I bought it from EVComponents. 
I wanted a few things in a charger including; 
- 115 or 230V capability (flexibility)
- 30 amps @ 230V (option to charge from gen-set on the fly)
- PFC/high efficiency. (lower cost hopefully)
- intelligent/switch mode. (battery life, hopefully)
- various battery chemistry capable. (possible battery upgrade)
- weather proof. (self explanitory)
- adjustable output voltage (the one option this one doesn't have)
- Isolated secondary side. (safety)
- good price. (cheaper than the Manzanita)

I'm pretty happy with getting close. (Thanks Dave). Should be here any day I expect.

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What was the price?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I think right around $2,100 USD...


----------



## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi DIYGuy!

First of all, congratulations on your build! 

I am at the planning stage of a conversion project and the task seems daunting. One of the steps that have me worried the most is the coupler part.

I will probably have to deal with a splined shaft as I'm aiming for a cheap build and most forklift engines have a splined shaft. 

Can you have a look at this list and tell me if I understand the steps involved in building this coupler correctly?
***SHORT VERSION****: 
1) Have the shaft turned and keyed,
2) get a sprocket that fits the size and key of the shaft and a matching split bushing. Also keep your clutch center hub.
3) Have the sprocket turned
4) Weld the sprocket, split bushing and clutch centre hub together using a nifty alignment device you made.
5) After welding, have the coupler spin balanced.
6) Done.


***LONG VERSION****: 

1) Either
a) Have the shaft turned and keyed, like you did, or
b) Have a key *added* to the shaft, like jackbauer did on post 17 of this thread 

2) get a sprocket that fits the size and key of the shaft and a matching split bushing. Also keep your clutch center hub.

question: Where can i get such a sprocket/split bushing? surpluscenter.com?
question: Why the split bushing?
question: I am quite the newbie and to make matter worse english isnt my first language, so I'm not sure which is which on this image. Can you confirm that 1 is the sprocket 2 is the split bushing and 3 your clutch centre hub?

3) Have the sprocket turned

question: you chose 4". How can I determine what I need? 

4) Weld the sprocket, split bushing and clutch centre hub together using a nifty alignment device you made.

question: alignment will be crucial here. Any tips on what to look out for when doing that alignment shaft?
question: I can't seem to figure out in which order you put the parts before welding them together on this picture  
Is it (from table to top) :
sprocket, with the end that used to have the teeth UP
then split bushing
then clutch hub ?

5) After welding, have the coupler spin balanced.

question: What is spin balancing? My guess is that welding added weight unevenly, which would be hell when rotating at thousands of RPM, so spin balancing re-even the weight distribution. Correct?
question: who does that? Same machine shop that turned the shaft?


6) Done? Do you need to figure out any spacer to keep the distance between the engine and the transmission constant, or do you just make the coupler a random length and the adapter plate will have to adapt to it?


Thanks DIYguy and sorry for all these questions.


Oh, and a bonus question : What is on this picture?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bazou said:


> Hi DIYGuy!
> 
> First of all, congratulations on your build!


Hey Bazou. Thanks...but I still have a lot of "stuff" to do...lol



bazou said:


> I am at the planning stage of a conversion project and the task seems daunting. One of the steps that have me worried the most is the coupler part.
> 
> I will probably have to deal with a splined shaft as I'm aiming for a cheap build and most forklift engines have a splined shaft.
> 
> ...


.... hmmm. the sprocket I used was chosen because it roughly matched the centre of the clutch... you see I planned to use springs and all...but mine was not one which could be easily separated. So... the sprocket isn't sized to fit the shaft, it's the inner piece of the split bushing that matches the shaft diameter.



bazou said:


> 3) Have the sprocket turned


 Of course I just did this to get rid of the un-needed sprocket part. [/quote]


bazou said:


> 4) Weld the sprocket, split bushing and clutch centre hub together using a nifty alignment device you made.
> 5) After welding, have the coupler spin balanced.
> 6) Done.


There are several ways to do this coupler thing. When going with a taper lock design, the purpose is to have it lock onto the shaft through the compression caused by the taper. Some folks use a slide fit, but then spacers must be made or the coupler must be made to not have room to slide and dis-engage one side or the other. If you go with a taper lock, make sure it is going to really lock, that's why I don't prefer it is done on a spline... you have a lot less area to grip. Also, the diameter of the spline may not be a standard that is easily matched to a bushing.


bazou said:


> ***LONG VERSION****:
> 
> 1) Either
> a) Have the shaft turned and keyed, like you did, or
> ...


The split bushing outer may be a sprocket or not.. again it is not matched to the shaft, its the inner bushing that matches the shaft diameter.


bazou said:


> question: Where can i get such a sprocket/split bushing?


 Just go to your local industrial bearing supplier. 


bazou said:


> surpluscenter.com?
> question: Why the split bushing?


Two pieces...inner one matches shaft with key but has thin cuts in several places to allow it to be contracted circumferentially. The outer surface of the inner piece mates with the inner of the outer half and this is a taper fit. When the screws are tightened drawing them together longitudinally, force is exerted on the shaft by the inner bush flexing. Just a good mechanical locking device.


bazou said:


> question: I am quite the newbie and to make matter worse english isnt my first language, so I'm not sure which is which on this image. Can you confirm that 1 is the sprocket 2 is the split bushing and 3 your clutch centre hub?


Sorry, but the link doesn't seem to work... 


bazou said:


> 3) Have the sprocket turned
> 
> question: you chose 4". How can I determine what I need?


Just buy what matches the piece u need from the clutch disc.


bazou said:


> 4) Weld the sprocket, split bushing and clutch centre hub together using a nifty alignment device you made.
> question: alignment will be crucial here. Any tips on what to look out for when doing that alignment shaft?


Just measure the ID of each and turn a pin to fit. A slide fit is about 0.002" clearance.


bazou said:


> question: I can't seem to figure out in which order you put the parts before welding them together on this picture
> Is it (from table to top) :
> sprocket, with the end that used to have the teeth UP
> then split bushing
> then clutch hub ?


 Sorry, link doesn't work again. I will go back and check, I know the pic u refer to.


bazou said:


> 5) After welding, have the coupler spin balanced.
> 
> question: What is spin balancing? My guess is that welding added weight unevenly, which would be hell when rotating at thousands of RPM, so spin balancing re-even the weight distribution. Correct?
> question: who does that? Same machine shop that turned the shaft?


yep, thats pretty much it. Not everyone does this or believes it's required though. The weight is close to centre line. Keep the welds the same.. u may not need to do it. I didn't want to be disappointed and have to take it appart later.... Not a typical machine shop does this. Call some places that do custom hi performace ICE motor work. They can likely do it for you.



bazou said:


> 6) Done? Do you need to figure out any spacer to keep the distance between the engine and the transmission constant, or do you just make the coupler a random length and the adapter plate will have to adapt to it?


Obviously you need to do your measurements to make sure you have good engagement of the tranny input shaft to your coupler and not touch your motor shaft. If you have a good taper lock fit, you don't need spacers. A slide fit coupler with set screws usually has spacers or a coupler long enough and matched.



bazou said:


> Thanks DIYguy and sorry for all these questions.
> 
> 
> Oh, and a bonus question : What is on this picture?


 I don't know!! lol no link!


----------



## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Wow, thanks for the quick and detailed reply. I'll reread it again to make sure I understand and will come back with my eventual questions. 

I dont know why you dont have the pictures, I clicked on the link in your reply and they work..


Thanks again


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bazou said:


> so I'm not sure which is which on this image. Can you confirm that 1 is the sprocket 2 is the split bushing and 3 your clutch centre hub?


I guess the links didn't work when I was in the other mode. #1 is the split bushing with Sprocket. #2 is part of the original clutch disc. This stamping holds the springs and connects to the friction discs on the outside and the centre hub of the clutch disc on the inside.... which is number 3.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bazou said:


> question: I can't seem to figure out in which order you put the parts before welding them together on this picture


This is item #1 (the split bushing - with turned down sprocket) and # 3, the clutch disc center hub.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bazou said:


> Oh, and a bonus question : What is on this picture?


This is the finished coupler... taken apart. The right side is the inner bush that mates to the shaft (note the thin slits) the left is the outer half of the bushing and underneath is the welded on centre hub.

You see, item # 2 in the picture was cut down and used only as a way to better attach the center hub to the sprocket. If you look close at item # 2 you will see that the centre of it looks like it has teeth...this jagged edge mates with the clutch center hub (the splined part) I just cut off the outer part of this stamping.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Item # 2 and 3 are from the original clutch disc. I just cut item # 2 where the white lines are in this pic below.
From this pic, flip over item # 1 (the coupler/sprocket) place the modified item #2 (cut stamping) and item # 3 (centre hub) stack them up with the fabricated (throw away when ur done) pin ... clamp and weld.
You could do this without item #2. I just used it to get a better fit and area to weld... it's like a reinforcement.

Please realize that you can buy a coupler with out the sprocket. They are made to weld on a sheave or a sprocket or whatever......


----------



## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Item # 2 and 3 are from the original clutch disc. I just cut item # 2 where the white lines are in this pic below.
> From this pic, flip over item # 1 (the coupler/sprocket) place the modified item #2 (cut stamping) and item # 3 (centre hub) stack them up with the fabricated (throw away when ur done) pin ... clamp and weld.
> You could do this without item #2. I just used it to get a better fit and area to weld... it's like a reinforcement.
> 
> Please realize that you can buy a coupler with out the sprocket. They are made to weld on a sheave or a sprocket or whatever......


Thanks a lot DIYguy, these last 4 posts made everything clearer, both on the "how to" front and the "what are those words" front ) Now you understand why I didnt know what you used the split bushing for ( I thought it was #2, a clutch part) )


So just to make sure one last time , the actual coupler in "#1" is what you call the split bushing and the part of the split bushing where you would put a chain is what you call the sproket, right? And I could get a split bushing (also refered to as a coupler) by itself with no sprocket ( for chains) or sheave (for belts) and that would actually make my life easier.

Thanks again, this may seem small but that makes the hurdle seem much smaller already.

How, I was also wondering if you considered keeping the spline and using a PTO disc like toddshotrod mentions in post9 of this thread on splined shaft coupling and post 40 of this thread on his build (the inhaler)

[links are also for me, so I can remember where I found the info]


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bazou said:


> Thanks a lot DIYguy, these last 4 posts made everything clearer, both on the "how to" front and the "what are those words" front ) Now you understand why I didnt know what you used the split bushing for ( I thought it was #2, a clutch part) )


 NP ur welcome. 


bazou said:


> So just to make sure one last time , the actual coupler in "#1" is what you call the split bushing and the part of the split bushing where you would put a chain is what you call the sproket, right? And I could get a split bushing (also refered to as a coupler) by itself with no sprocket ( for chains) or sheave (for belts) and that would actually make my life easier.


 Yes, except its really the finished product that I would call the "coupler". The taper lock bushing is just a portion of it. 


bazou said:


> Thanks again, this may seem small but that makes the hurdle seem much smaller already.
> 
> How, I was also wondering if you considered keeping the spline and using a PTO disc like toddshotrod mentions in post9 of this thread on splined shaft coupling and post 40 of this thread on his build (the inhaler)


 Sure, if I had found a component that fit my spline, I would have used it for sure. Would have saved me lots of work.


----------



## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> NP ur welcome.


Thanks again DIYGuy. 
Now, on to get a motor. I have to return a call from a guy in a forklift shop.


----
For future reference, in order of preference :

(1) (If part can be found) Get a pto disc, like toddshotrod
(2) (If enough meat on the shaft) turn it and key it, like diyguy
(3) If all else fails, keep the spline and have it keyed, like jackbauer


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I came up with this pot box. I rescued some bits and pieces from a golf cart unit and fitted a small micro switch for hi-pedal. I've been dinking around with the linear motion pots and have contacted a few suppliers. They seem to be all around $400 and up though. One has suggested that they make me a high resolution, 90 degree pot for this application. I will advise price when I get it. I think resolution is the main issue.... that and travel of the pedal/cable....WRT the jumping that some folks experience. Brian got it right with the gearing to move one through 270 degrees or whatever a "1 turn pot" ends up being. I have a beatiful 3 turn/5 K pot...but it's a challenge to convert 3" of cable travel to 3 turns on the pot. Not impossible, but not sure I want to spend that much time on it. I think I will try this first and see if I have any issues.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Looks like a Curtis PB5, is it? Other than the micro switch did you make any modifications?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Looks like a Curtis PB5, is it? Other than the micro switch did you make any modifications?


No real changes... I messed with a few other Pots and rigged up a full turn pot...but decided to try this first and see how it works. Even though this is a 90 degree, it goes from 0 - 5000 ohm in about 70 degrees. Might be too short. I have no idea if it is a Curtis. No markings on it.

I was checking out the ones that look like this....


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That looks sweet, and expensive.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135247&postcount=204
I think they are a great option just have to find the less expensive ones used on small position sensors... they are less than a PB6 I am sure...

Dave


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135247&postcount=204
> I think they are a great option just have to find the less expensive ones used on small position sensors... they are less than a PB6 I am sure...
> 
> Dave


Im not sure how much a PB6 is...but these are $400+... at least I haven't found one less yet. Been working with local supply though. Perhaps china is cheaper...


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I've seen PB6 from $80 to $140


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

http://www.celesco.com/linearpot/index.htm

hmmmmm these used to be $89 for the small one ... $400 ? wow - I could hire some one to sit under the hood and turn a pot by hand as I yell to them for that amount of dough! ... progress, just like the price of gas...

Dave


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

http://www.celesco.com/m150/index.htm

wonder what they get for string pots now - oh that is another option for a do-it yourself - work slick but I suppose they are $1000 bucks now lol...

Dave


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

OK Mr. Koller... I'll take you up on your bet.   You find a sealed linear pot (not the open style used in music) for less than a PB6 and I'll buy two, one for me and one for you. If you can't, then you buy me one. 3" linear travel, 0-5K ohm resistance. Do we have a wager?

Either item should be my cost to my door...that should make it fair.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> http://www.celesco.com/m150/index.htm
> 
> wonder what they get for string pots now - oh that is another option for a do-it yourself - work slick but I suppose they are $1000 bucks now lol...
> 
> Dave


Yes, the price and the fact that most just have too much travel....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I made up this Stainless Steel cover-band. I still have to adapt air cooling ports...but I kindof like the way it came out. Have to trim the extra gear clamp strap length off......


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Yes, the price and the fact that most just have too much travel....


I don't know the price but this one only has 10mm of travel:
http://www.abelectronic.com/sensors/Linear-Motion-Sensor.pdf


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice cover band, I like the use of the hose clamps.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I also mounted my DC/DC... nothing special. (except for the price  )


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Also finished up my power board enclosure. Still have to hinge the lid. Also do the control wiring. But I can mount it now.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I don't know the price but this one only has 10mm of travel:
> http://www.abelectronic.com/sensors/Linear-Motion-Sensor.pdf


I was referring to the travel on string-pots... as often having too much travel..


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> OK Mr. Koller... I'll take you up on your bet.   You find a sealed linear pot (not the open style used in music) for less than a PB6 and I'll buy two, one for me and one for you. If you can't, then you buy me one. 3" linear travel, 0-5K ohm resistance. Do we have a wager?
> 
> Either item should be my cost to my door...that should make it fair.


Nope, mama taught me not to bet on on anything after 1999 ...

How about we all use good sealed 270 degree pots and string pulleys of the right diameter - with spring return - to get that 3" linear travel? 

Really like the cover band great idea!

Dave 


They want 300 bucks for a string pot with 1.5" travel at 5k (sure you could add a lever to make 3") - could buy a new donor for that !!


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

By the way thought I was the only one using Plexi or acrylic - Yours looks great! I wanted people to see - but not touch, also!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Nope, mama taught me not to bet on on anything after 1999 ...
> 
> How about we all use good sealed 270 degree pots and string pulleys of the right diameter - with spring return - to get that 3" linear travel?
> 
> ...


Your momma was a smart lady Mr. Koller. lol 

I did make one of these and if mine doesn't work out too well, I will make another...similar, only refined a bit. Need a decent clock spring to make it nice.

I had a price on a Hi-resolution 90 degree turn pot. $225. I don't think so....


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

In all my "pot" research it seems as if the automotive TPS's are the best combination of quality and price, usually between $30 and $50. The only drawback is I've never found one with a shaft you could mount an arm on, they all seem to be female sockets. You'd have to make shaft that fits it and has it's own support bearing, which is what EVnetics has done.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Sorry to turn your build thread into the pot thread but I've found some good reviews of this very cheap sealed pot with a shaft:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=RV4N253C-ND
Full rotation but 25K so partial range should work well for 5K.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Used those pots they are better than the shack - but *back* to DIYguy's build - I started this tangent - sorry, but we do get something out of all the info ...

Dave


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

No worries.... it's all good. I just replaced the TPS on my Dakota 4.7 V8. RPM was surging up and down. It happened once before and I cleaned it...was good for another 35K then started again. It cost me $125... I figured it would be $25...then again, nothing is $25 anymore for an ICE. 

What is the typical resistive range of the ICE TPS's? I guess the controller wouldn't care if you fed it a signal higher than 5k I wouldn't think.....Thoughts?

The nice thing about the ICE TPS's is that they have the return spring built in. Too bad about the shaft though. Could come up with something.....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> By the way thought I was the only one using Plexi or acrylic - Yours looks great! I wanted people to see - but not touch, also!


Yes! I like it...


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You can find TPS with 0-5K range. Anything higher will probably tell the controller there is a fault and shut it down.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> You can find TPS with 0-5K range. Anything higher will probably tell the controller there is a fault and shut it down.


you think it would shut down most controllers? ... higher resistance moves the signal more towards an "open circuit" , I would have thought it would just look like max throttle to the controller.... hmmm. ok, well, I have a 5 k for now anyways....


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Well I think a controller would be programmed to shut down on an open circuit. Say a broken wire or something, I wouldn't want the controller to think I'm just flooring it  There is probably some leeway above 5K, just not sure how much.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got my charger last week. It's a Chinoz. 115 or 230 volt input. 192 volt battery nominal. Isolated. Switch-mode PFC, 98%+ efficiency I guess. Documentation that came with it is not so great. Dave Kois at EVComponents is helping me out with that. ClintK got the same brand of charger also. I plan to mount it in the truck box as it is weather proof. I'll have a tonneau (sp?) cover anyways.....I think this is my last major component....


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Wow - Looks like the 6Kw HF/PFC Charger. 

Go big or stay home or what? Any "other" plans for that thing besides just charging your pack? 

http://www.hztiecheng.com/showproduct_e.asp?id=373


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Wow - Looks like the 6Kw HF/PFC Charger.
> 
> Go big or stay home or what? Any "other" plans for that thing besides just charging your pack?
> 
> http://www.hztiecheng.com/showproduct_e.asp?id=373


Yes, that would be the one.  I was thinking to see if I could strike an arc with it and do some welding...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*The EV "smirk".... (not quite a grin lol)*

I decided to put the box back on the truck since the battery boxes and wiring is all done back there. I also wanted to make room in my garage for parking my truck (and wife's car and EV) now that it is getting colder. Of course I do most everything myself and the challenge was to get the box, which was resting on horses, up in the air and get the truck under it. Getting the box up was one thing, getting the truck over there was another. I decided to DRIVE the truck over!  So, I hooked up the motor to two of my batteries, with the wheels off the ground and using a range switch from a welder (see pic below) in the cab... I clicked it into "gear". Woa... a little too much power there so, I used only one battery...12 volts and tried again. Perfect. Drove it out the garage, and backed up under the hoisted truck box. 

While I was there, I welded up the hinges... the box tilts perfectly. No interference with bumper... (argh... no pic of that, will snap one)... 

BTW... I think this range switch may just be the perfect "spare controller". With a few battery cables... one could switch through several combinations of batteries. Great way to limp home ... I just may carry this thing around for a while...  Didn't I see some guy with a set of contacts on a "stick" racing a car one time?? This would be a step up from that!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Wow - Looks like the 6Kw HF/PFC Charger.
> 
> Go big or stay home or what? Any "other" plans for that thing besides just charging your pack?
> 
> http://www.hztiecheng.com/showproduct_e.asp?id=373


One other thing I guess... I'm planning to do some "range extending" on occasion and will dump power from a gen set directly into this charger while driving or parked when I want to go a bit further distance.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> One other thing I guess... I'm planning to do some "range extending" on occasion and will dump power from a gen set directly into this charger while driving or parked when I want to go a bit further distance.


That's what I was thinking...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Did some work on my blower take off from the cover band. TIG welded a Stainless Steel, 3" x 90 degree elbow on and will finish the blower install tomorrow.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Nice bit of pipework there.
What size pipe are you using and what sort of fan?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm using a full 3" all the way from the blower to the motor. Its a marine bilge vent centrifugal fan... lemme see if I have a pic.... yes, here u go...


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Tig weld looks great. How large is the brush port beneath the 3" elbow? Will you have restriction at that point?

Clever idea to pop rivet the hose clamps to the band. I'd never thought of using a clamp that way (will likely do so in the future!).

Rob


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Really sweet


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RKM said:


> Gary,
> 
> Tig weld looks great. How large is the brush port beneath the 3" elbow? Will you have restriction at that point?
> 
> ...


Hi Rob, been meaning to write you. I see it's turned pretty cold out ur way already. The port is bigger than the 3" pipe... I didn't measure it...but there will be no restriction of air going in. It's probably 4" x 4" or so.....
Actually, I'm a little rusty on the TIG...been a long time...lol The band is much thinner than the tube also..so, I had to be careful with that. Have you had much time on your build lately?

Gary


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Wow, the brush ports are huge on that motor. I'm sure the WarP 9 are only about 1.5" X 2.5" or so. 

Yeah, I've been trying to work away at it pretty steady. Paying work is starting to line up and I need my shop back. I'm overdue to post some updates on the build thread. Everything seems to take far longer than I budget for! I'm supposed to be done by now.

The dash is back in, though not bolted down. Cycle Analyst is installed above the rear view mirror. The belly pan is 3/4 complete, will need to finish the back end when it comes off the rotisserie (credit goes to a guy who works for me for the belly pan). 45 cells are strapped in, in six separate groups. The BMS boards are prewired and assembled on polycarb strips that will velcro to the packs. Have been wiring the relays, fuse panel, switches etc in the front end and the charger and batt cooling fan circuit in the trunk.

The most recent fight is to get the A/C clutch switch to control my heater relay. The wire to the clutch worked fine before I removed the A/C. Now it doesn't. Finally tracked down a wiring diagram on line for the A/C circuit. I'm hopeful this information will help me get 12V through to where I need it. 

Getting close and impatient.

You beat me already with your 12V drive to get underneath your truck box!

Happy Thanksgiving

Rob


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> I see it's turned pretty cold out ur way already.
> 
> Gary


Forgot to mention... parts of Southern Manitoba got 15-30 cm of snow yesterday! We missed it at home, but Winnipeg driving was trecherous. I don't have my ice tires on the car yet, was easily able to break the tires free in 4th gear without even trying. We're talking about a Corolla here!

Way too soon for this!

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hehe, thats why they call it Winter-peg....lol. I saw on the news and thougth of you out there. Sounds like you are making good progress on your build. Was wondering about your partner... has he been doing his simultaneous to yours? 

What did you use for your belly pan? Al? Plastic?

I'll see if I can did up a pic that shows the CE plate...yup here's a couple one before and after rebuild that show the ports....

BTW...the 12 volt jaunt doesn't count! lol

Here's a few pics of the blower done the mech install. I TIG welded up a flange for the blower to tubing transition.... and tapped some holes for screws. Still need to rig up a filter and secondary mount. I decided to isolate it a bit with a plumbing mechanical clamp.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

On your 6KW PFC charger, are your thinking of hooking up a 5KW (or more) generator as a range extender?


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

On your 3" tubing, I have a few feet of some 3" flexible plastic dust collection hose if you need it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> On your 6KW PFC charger, are your thinking of hooking up a 5KW (or more) generator as a range extender?


yes, I will be using all of the 6kw capability of the charger while range extending.

Thanks for the tubing offer... I think I am ok now after spending way too much on the 409SS stuff....lmao


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> yes, I will be using all of the 6kw capability of the charger while range extending.
> 
> Thanks for the tubing offer... I think I am ok now after spending way too much on the 409SS stuff....lmao


Your wife must love you alot or you're already divorced...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tj4fa said:


> Your wife must love you alot or you're already divorced...


Neither...lmao, I don't tell her.. hehe.


----------



## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Neither...lmao, I don't tell her.. hehe.


You're a lot smarter than I thought...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Finished wiring up the control board. All wires and terminals labelled. Also prepared the wire harness with labels. About ready to drop in. I already installed the frame mounts for the control board and the frame directly under the board bolts in place. It is currently screwed to bottom....

I tested the remote shunt trip on my breaker also by plugging the wires into a 115VAC outlet. Snap! Works great. When using DC, calls for 
110 - 125 VDC. Will be nice to have a mushroom button in the cab connected to this... no need to pull Anderson connectors apart or cable anything up...


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Dang, that's pretty. Can you post an aerial photo so we can better see the layout?

Neat and organized. Labelling... what a good idea! I'll use the excuse that I'm too tight for space to have such a nice arrangement. I'll try to pretty mine up a bit once I'm done the wiring, but it won't complete with the work you've got there. Tres bien.

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Big grin goin on here....*

 No test....just drive.... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMflAV9iy9U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUOGag7TuIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djqu6_uifVA

I know,...it looks like a bag of nails...but I will get to the details... I've honestly spent more time restoring this truck, than converting it...

G


----------



## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

DIY
Nice lookin truck! Congrats.
You got a cable hanging there guy....better zip-tie it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> DIY
> Nice lookin truck! Congrats.
> You got a cable hanging there guy....better zip-tie it.


I have a lot more than that cable hanging....lol. I have no hood, no grill , no lights..wires everywhere. lmao. The reason for the slack cable is that my front batteries were not even installed. Was driving from 156 volts worth instead of 192..... lol


----------



## elevatorguy (Jul 26, 2007)

must be nice to finally drive it! nice job!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Jerry. Was pretty kewl, I must say. Lots to do yet though.... but, very kewl.

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: Big grin goin on here....*



DIYguy said:


> No test....just drive....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMflAV9iy9U
> 
> ...


Here's the deal Gary - I have dialup and it took forever to download youtube BUT IT WAS WORTH IT! Ya hooked me into looking at them all .. Great job and on the first one , as you went behind the tree and took off outa sight I waited for the CRASH ! lol ( some ICE pulling out of his driveway ) Yep you did some nice work on the body of that truck !!!

and it has some zip!

Congrads !!!


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

YEE HAW!!! I've been waiting for this, 'bout time! I know it was a short run... can you give us more details? How was the soliton for power delivery? What was the shifting like? Other impressions?

Way to go Gary. Are you left only with the tidy up and reassembly of hood, etc? Nice conifer, BTW!

Rob


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Big grin goin on here....*



Dave Koller said:


> Here's the deal Gary - I have dialup and it took forever to download youtube BUT IT WAS WORTH IT! Ya hooked me into looking at them all .. Great job and on the first one , as you went behind the tree and took off outa sight I waited for the CRASH ! lol ( some ICE pulling out of his driveway ) Yep you did some nice work on the body of that truck !!!
> 
> and it has some zip!
> 
> Congrads !!!


Hi Dave, thanks.. My daughter did the video.... yikes...pretty shakey...lol Believe it or not, the one thing I haven't touched is the body! I wanted something with a good body.. (go figure) and this one has no rust. Has a lot of little dents/scratches...but you cant see them in the video. I'll have to get a better one done. . . and u'll have to get high speed... u won't regret it!.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RKM said:


> YEE HAW!!! I've been waiting for this, 'bout time! I know it was a short run... can you give us more details? How was the soliton for power delivery? What was the shifting like? Other impressions?
> 
> Way to go Gary. Are you left only with the tidy up and reassembly of hood, etc? Nice conifer, BTW!
> 
> Rob


Hi Rob,... ya, I'm a slow poke  Been tight finding time lately. The Soliton lived up to all it's hype. It was easy to install, everything worked the way it was suppose to and it was just too easy. I didn't program it for any racing, but for what I plugged into it, it performed just as I imagined it would. I had limits on most set up parameters....and it accelerated away in 2nd gear as good, or better than the ICE would have. Like you, I expected some issues shifting but even though I'm not use to anything yet, it was pretty easy. I didn't hook up the tach yet, even though I know it works, as I wasn't sure whether to drive it with the Soliton or hook it up in parallel to it. ... So, not sure where my revs were. The neighbours were all looking at me like I was crazy. I stopped to talk to one of them.. . and he was asking all kinds of questions and looking at everything. hehehe

Lets see, I still have to finish the interior. I tore it all apart. I bought new carpet and have it 80% installed..have to put the passenger seat back in. Had the seats cleaned, cost me $20! lol and they came out great. I have the charger mounted by not finished wiring. Still have to install all my voltbochers (on the fence how/where to put them for protection). I have to put my front battery pack back in (20 min job...drops right in and bolts up). I have to install my lights, grill, front bumper and wiring harnesses. Need to secure the tilting box when down... hood pins or something I guess. Oh ya, have to install my heater also ... it is a Phillips - Temro water heater and a pump. Like I said....lots of details...lol

I bought LRR tires for the stock rims...but I plan on painting the truck and putting some nice rims/tires after. Long term, I still plan on AC and regen alternator. Oh yes, I will buy a Lithium pack too if I enjoy driving this thing enough.... once u guys figure out this top balance, bottom balance, no balance dance.... lmao 

I planted the two blue Colorado spruce and the hoopsie about 12 years ago, with a shovel... they are huge now eh? lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Well, I took the beast for a bit of a trip yesterday. It's not licensed but I just had to see how it would perform with the full battery pack in. I went about 20 km's. Aceleration was amazingly good. I pushed the accelerator to about half way and in no time I was going 130 kph... I think that is about 80mph. The rest of the way I cruised at about 100kph. It seemed effortless. Shifting was really easy ... although I noticed that I had to match rpm ...which is nothing new. I could notice a decrease in available power when I got back though...so, I checked all my battery connections. All were fine..but I noticed 3 of my batteries were warm to the touch and the others were not. These also read 0.2 volts lower when I returned, than the others. Thats a lot...maybe 20%. They are used batteries and I bought 20 while needing only 16. I'll change them out and see what I get. As long as I get the range I expect, I am more than pleased with the performance. 

I did a lot of things that haven't been documented since last postings....I guess I should catch them up...


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Gary,

Congrats!! Sounds like performance is exceeding expectations. The Soliton is not letting you down!! 81.25 mph without really trying. Take care for your license. What was your amp draw like while accelerating and cruising? Pleased to hear that your clutchless shifting, like mine, is not a problem.

Take care.

Rob


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yikes! Better be careful you don't get a speeding ticket while going 80 MPH unlicensed

I'll be happy if mine can even reach 65 with the pedal to the floor.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> Yikes! Better be careful you don't get a speeding ticket while going 80 MPH unlicensed
> 
> I'll be happy if mine can even reach 65 with the pedal to the floor.


Yes, I probably shouldn't have wrote that..  
I live in the country and picked a "quite time".


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

RKM said:


> Gary,
> 
> Congrats!! Sounds like performance is exceeding expectations. The Soliton is not letting you down!! 81.25 mph without really trying. Take care for your license. What was your amp draw like while accelerating and cruising? Pleased to hear that your clutchless shifting, like mine, is not a problem.
> 
> ...


Hey Rob, thanks man. It's very kewl. Unfortunately, I don't know what's going on with amperage yet. I had two shunts (battery, motor side) with my old controller design. Haven't set one up yet with this controller. I went to instll the cycle analyst and so I got out the manual. Two issues there. One is that it is suppose to go up to 200 volts. My pack fully charged it 208. Spoke to Justin, no probs as mine has a 350 volt transistor. Second issue, display is clipped at 200 for voltage. I have to change a resistor and an advanced parameter....but at least can be done. Just trying to figure if I have to send back or not. I also need a different shunt as 50mv/800amp ones I have equate to 0.0625 mOhm. Lowest possible set up in CA is 0.07...something. No biggy. 

The acceleration with full pack charged was really strong. I was hesitant to push the accelerator down to far. . . at least till I get some time on the thing. 

How is yours working out? Have you been driving it regularly? How are the batteries holding up?

Regards,
Gary


----------



## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

A great story of an unlicensed vehicle:
Back in the 60's I had arranged with a local garage to remove a blown 265cu in engine from my recently purchased 55 Chevy in exchange for keeping the engine for parts. The car had no plates or registration.
I had purchased a used 283cu in Corvette Power Pack from a friend to replace the blown motor with.
Problem was.......the new engine was at my house.......and the 55 Chevy was nearly a mile away with no engine in it.
I had no way to tow the Chevy to my house but the garage was at the top of a long hill and I thought if I could get it rolling down the hill it would have enough momentum to make it to my driveway on the same road. 

The garage guys rolled the Chevy out onto the road......and gave it a shove. The car got rolling down the hill quite well hitting nearly 60mph at the bottom. And sure enough there was a Wayne Police Officer with radar set up in a 40mph zone! 
He pulled me over. I told him my sad story.......he looked at me in disbelief until I got out and opened the hood.....there you could see the asphalt where the engine once was. He laughed and then surprizingly offered to push me the last 100 yds. or so with the Police Cruiser to my driveway.
Whay a guy! That would never happen in today's world!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> A great story of an unlicensed vehicle:
> Back in the 60's I had arranged with a local garage to remove a blown 265cu in engine from my recently purchased 55 Chevy in exchange for keeping the engine for parts. The car had no plates or registration.
> I had purchased a used 283cu in Corvette Power Pack from a friend to replace the blown motor with.
> Problem was.......the new engine was at my house.......and the 55 Chevy was nearly a mile away with no engine in it.
> ...


That's hilarious...lol, has to be a true story... lol 
Believe it or not... I had in the back of my mind the "plea" I would use in the unlikely event that I too was pulled over. With my luck it would be a woman (no offence intended) who couldn't care less about electric drive, home made, maiden voyage etc...and likely impound my EV...lmao....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

OK, so...last time I identified 3 warm batteries after my little "trip". I changed the warmest one, and charged it up again. The PFC charger is working great btw. I haven't tried it on 240 volts yet. I did have to change the charge curve to # 1 from # 4. 

So, I went for a slower cruise on the back gravel roads. I drove about 20km. Again, I noticed a real sag on the way back home. I checked all the batteries again. The two "warm" ones from my first romp were ever so slightly warmer than the rest. Checked the voltage and one of them was at 11.38!  yikes. So, I will change this one out and see what I get. The rest were around 12.4 (except for the other one that was warm.. @12.28v) I hope there is a significant improvement after I get through this.

Everything else (that is finished) seems to be working really well. Voltblochers ok. Soliton ok. I haven't quite finished my fluid heater yet. The motor was warm....but not too hot to be able to hold my hand on. I let the fan run for a few min afterwards to cool it off. I may put a delay timer or run it off a thermostat so it doesn't shut down after a run on a hot day when the key is turned off. Does anyone else do this??


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I changed out the second battery. Made the same trip. Much improved. Last time I had a pack voltage of 194.5 when I returned. This time it was 199.8 and soon recovered to over 200. Same trip. This time I actually accelerated a lot more, and a lot more often also. I actually tripped my breaker! It was nice!

I measured each battery again. The third suspect battery was not warm to the touch but measured 12.38 when the rest were up around 12.5 to 12.55. I guess I should change this one out tomorrow and see how it fairs.

I want to make sure the pack is well balanced before retrying. It should be very close.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> The motor was warm....but not too hot to be able to hold my hand on. I let the fan run for a few min afterwards to cool it off. I may put a delay timer or run it off a thermostat so it doesn't shut down after a run on a hot day when the key is turned off. Does anyone else do this??


No for me - BUT you gave me another thing to worry about lol.... I will add that to my never-ending circuit board! 

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/getting-rid-pcm-saturn-30356p6.html

back up a page also...


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Ok, so how long should it run after the key is off? I have enclosed a quick - cheap - Radio Shack kinda thing to throw together... It does work and depending on the relay you choose a 2n2222 NpN transistor should be fine. I had it working with a 20k resistor BUT to large it won"t turn on... 

the more capacitor value the longer on time - be aware it takes a bit when key is first turned on to charge the caps but that is not bad... hope this is the poor mans solution for ya


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Ok, so how long should it run after the key is off? I have enclosed a quick - cheap - Radio Shack kinda thing to throw together... It does work and depending on the relay you choose a 2n2222 NpN transistor should be fine. I had it working with a 20k resistor BUT to large it won"t turn on...
> 
> the more capacitor value the longer on time - be aware it takes a bit when key is first turned on to charge the caps but that is not bad... hope this is the poor mans solution for ya


Thank you Dave! Very nice. I would say 3 minutes is lots..probably 2 minutes in the winter. Right now mine runs all the time the key is on. I was thinking of mounting a thermostat on the motor and powering direct. I know the thermostat should be inside...but if I get the right temp, outside surface should work. I'm really not an electonic guy at all. I get by with basic circuits..but not making boards typically.

cheers.
Gary


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Went for another drive. 25 km this time. Drove about 75 to 80kph. When I got back the voltage was 198. One other battery was warm. I dunno. I'm thinking that these used batteries are not so strong anymore. I only paid 50 $ each, but I expected more based on the info supplied on them. Argh. 
Performance is great, particularly in the first half of the trip... 

I have to change a surface mount resistor on my Cycle Analyst so it will display voltage over 200. I will try and get that done Monday, so I can see what my battery current draw is while driving.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Thank you Dave! Very nice. I would say 3 minutes is lots..probably 2 minutes in the winter. Right now mine runs all the time the key is on. I was thinking of mounting a thermostat on the motor and powering direct. I know the thermostat should be inside...but if I get the right temp, outside surface should work. I'm really not an electonic guy at all. I get by with basic circuits..but not making boards typically.
> 
> cheers.
> Gary


That little circuit means the fan runs ALL the time the key is on and then stays on for x time after you shut it off.. I think the cooler the better! Wonder if by the time the thermostat kicks in it might be getting too hot inside.. With your blower setup I would just leave it run and then for a bit after you shut it off... anyway it is a VERY simple couple buck circuit....


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Gary:

Here is a simple circuit that stays on for a loooong time if you use more cap value.. This one has high impedance and Radio Shack parts also...

Stick it on a breadboard and test it ( I have done that but it takes hardly any room to work! )


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey everyone.... Haven't been on much for a while. Thought I would post the latest pic. 
Truck works really well. I've had it up to 100 mph and it was still building fairly well. Soliton is a great controller. Works as advertised. No issues. MES-Dea vacuum pump is a good choice also. Elcon 6kw charger has been flawless. I use it on 240 volt now and it charges really quickly. I replaced the Voltblocher's with EQ-48 equalizers. I wanted more than just over charge protect. These equalize during charge, discharge and idle. .. and the other reason was that I wanted something protected. These are fully potted. Everything has been working well. I did toast 2 batteries before getting the equalizers.... but I had them replaced under warranty. I may put power steering in. The manual box works fine for me...but my daughter wants to drive it..... bit tough. If anyone knows of an MR2 Spyder electric pump, I am interested. (2000 - 2005). Anyways ...have a peek. The Mustang bullets seem to go nicely... 18" x 8". Had to use 1.25" spacers. The paint looks good in the pic...but it needs a good re-paint.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

OOOooooooooooooooWWWWeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

That turned into a slick ride there! You sure thats the same truck?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks David.... how u doin' ?.

Did u get that brushless motor going ok??


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

That is one good looking truck!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Pat. What's goin on man? I heard you sold Ohmer....??


----------



## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

oh not much... having a quiet summer. Yeah, OHMer went to a nice older gentleman in Missouri. I'm sure they'll be perfect for each other. I have been itching to do another one though. Problem is I REALLY want to do lithium and I just can't afford it right now. We'll see, we'll see....


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Wow the truck looks great!!!


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

DIYguy said:


> Thanks David.... how u doin' ?.
> 
> Did u get that brushless motor going ok??


I think I have close to 2000km on the car but not sure (didn't write down the odometer at time of tear down!)

But yes, its running and has been trouble free since I rebuilt the controller. Far from finished but time and money are a little tight at the moment so I'm simply driving it as is for now.


----------



## RKM (Jun 9, 2008)

Way to go Gary! Now there's a quality EV!! Have been waiting to see this update. The wheels look great. You've done a fantastic job of putting together an impressive list of components, great execution. Very interested in your battery equalizer system (thanks for the link).

You beat me with the top speed too. I run out of gears before I reach 100 mph. I had been a bit concerned as to whether your motor would handle the voltage and amperage, obviously its not a problem. You motor cooler must be effective.

The gov't of Ontario has reinstated the registration of conversions evidently. Not too many hoops to jump through I hope.

Hope to get down to see the truck later this fall.

Rob


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Last I heard the moratorium on electric conversion registrations was lifted in ontario. Did you hear a more recent development? I sure hope they didn't go back on their word.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Wow the truck looks great!!!


Hey thanks Dave.  How are u doin? Still havin fun?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> I think I have close to 2000km on the car but not sure (didn't write down the odometer at time of tear down!)
> 
> But yes, its running and has been trouble free since I rebuilt the controller. Far from finished but time and money are a little tight at the moment so I'm simply driving it as is for now.


Nice, well... anyone who can rebuild their own controller gets props from me.. Keep on drivin....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Rob! How are you? Been a while. Nice to hear from you. I owe u email I think.


RKM said:


> Way to go Gary! Now there's a quality EV!! Have been waiting to see this update. The wheels look great. You've done a fantastic job of putting together an impressive list of components, great execution. Very interested in your battery equalizer system (thanks for the link).


Oh, like usual...u are too kind. I have a "funny story" to tell about the EV.... later on. Ya, you know.... the more I think of it...the more I believe that equalization is the key (for batts that need it) as opposed to more bells and whistles. Making the pack "one battery" is what its all about. With the newer controllers, you can limit your current, and limp home lower voltage protect. A smart charger will do the upper limiting just fine if set for the right chemistry. So...what's left?? I was thinking of talking to the eng at this company to come up with a similar product for Li. shouldn't be too hard.


RKM said:


> You beat me with the top speed too. I run out of gears before I reach 100 mph. I had been a bit concerned as to whether your motor would handle the voltage and amperage, obviously its not a problem. You motor cooler must be effective.


A few more volts will do it for you.  I bet that Miata moves though!


RKM said:


> The gov't of Ontario has reinstated the registration of conversions evidently. Not too many hoops to jump through I hope.


 Seem like they have a handle on it now. I squeaked mine through somehow in the midst of it all. hehehe.


RKM said:


> Hope to get down to see the truck later this fall.


That would be really kewl. Hope you can.... 

Rob[/quote]


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

DIYguy said:


> Nice, well... anyone who can rebuild their own controller gets props from me.. Keep on drivin....


Thanks, it was a crash course thats for sure. Couple years ago I didn't even know what a transistor was!

Still huge gaps in my knowledge before I can build one from scratch though.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok...here's the "funny story". I post an update about my EV.... the world is good. (It has been running fine I must say.) The very next day, I jump in the truck with my son to go to baseball (14 year old plays rep ball in the city) as usual. Hit the edge of town and I can feel the controller cut out. It happened once before when I left the dc/dc unplugged and the controller faulted on low (12volt) acc power. Of course I had no time to mess with it so... luckily I run regularly because I had a 2km run back to the house to get my Enclave. 

Later, I plugged in the laptop and I got a message regarding low battery voltage...but my pack was almost fully charged. After messing with it for a bit in the dark... i came home and shot Tesseract an email. He confirmed that there wasn indeed an issue. Seems that they had some issues with the quality of one of the supplied components. (film capacitor I believe) The next day I was leaving for Montreal.... so, I quickly pulled it out. I wasn't thrilled with the verdict, but at least I knew what was wrong... and it wasn't something I did. 

I've often said (in business), every company will have issues at some point. What sets them apart, is how they handle their issues. I give Jeff top marks here. He admitted the issue, explained how it happened and went on to ensure that I knew that it would be completely handled. Shipping both ways, insurance, repair and even the packaging would be covered. Additionally, the repair would be very quick... most of the time would be spent in transit. 

So, there you go. One bump in the road. But I must say, I really do like this controller. It worked for me as described very well for about 1200 km.... lol Seriously though, the features are really nice. .. and I do have complete faith in the Soliton and people behind it....

I'm not sure I should do any more "bragging" about my meager build though......geeesh....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Got controller back last night. Installed it this morning...all good. Back to normal. ) 

I have to hand it EVnetics. Not only did they repair it in one day...they paid everthing. The only thing I had to pay for (because UPS wouldn't charge their acct) was the packaging. $8.00. I told them not to worry about it..it's no big deal. When I opened the box to get my goodies...there on the top was an envelope with a cheque for $8.00. In the bottom of the box was an EVNetics T-shirt. Class all the way... 

Cheers,


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice service. No cost to you and a bonus T shirt, can't beat that.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

And everything is fine! Good to know - hard to find old fashioned ethics - gotta love it! They went up a BIG notch on my NEXT controller


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

I'm almost embarrassed to reply as Gary shouldn't have needed any service in the first place! We just follow the Golden Rule and treat customers the way we would like to be treated ourselves... We are really furious that we'll never be able to claim "no failures in the power section" like the Zilla, but at least it was the fault of the capacitor manufacturer (specifically, the way they attached the terminals to the capacitor internally) and not the design itself. This was not a problem caught during beta testing, obviously, and that may be because the precise method the cap manufacturer used was changed at some point... We went ahead and replaced the capacitor in the Cord controller and when I removed all the potting (no easy task, mind you) the terminal attachments looked perfectly fine. In contrast, the capacitors from controllers which failed, like Gary's here, were obviously cooked (black soot surrounds each terminal where it exits the potting compound).

I guess one good thing from all this is that it shows just how important it is to put the main contactors (and precharge resistor/relay) inside the controller.... I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb here in guessing that if the contactors were accessible there would be an overwhelming temptation to jumper over them in the event of a failure with the idea that the coil might be the problem...


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Here's the breaker. A Cutler-Hammer. It's a three pole so can be used for AC up to 600 volts or just the outside two poles for 250 volts dc. You can see the two wires used for external shunt trip.


where did you get it, and what did it cost?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> where did you get it, and what did it cost?


It came from the industrial world. I don't think you would want to pay for a new one. Probably $1500 or something stupid like that. However, if you go hunting for a used one.... Mine came out of a resistance weld control panel. I have another one..... but I'm saving it in case I build something else.... The adjustable trip limits is a very nice feature...for high current. The shunt trip works great also. With the remote handle, you can switch off power and lock it out with a padlock also. On the down side, it's a bit large....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Winter upgrade time...

LiFePo4 batteries.

Electric/hydraulic power steering. (my daughter wants to drive it..lol)

Charger mod to handle lithium.

Eventually, paint job. Might loose the rear bumper and put roll pan.

Toying with the idea of a bigger motor....


I ordered 67 Calb LiFePo4 cells. 65 for the truck and two extra. These fit my battery box design quite closely.

I have an MR2 pump and the original PS box.

I have to send my 6KW Elcon to Greg for re-programming.

Now to start pulling out the lead. Not sure if I will put heat in the boxes or not....?? I park inside a garage..... I dunno yet.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice. I'd try it without heat first, but certainly insulation if you don't already have that. As long as you have plenty of range and power for your needs you'll probably be fine.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks JRP... it's kinda what I been thinking.... I just don't want to have to pull them all out after....lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey JR, what's your recommendation on Charger voltage limit? I'm planning to bottom balance and go without BMS. Would u go as high as the 3.6 volts spec? Safer to stay lower @ 3.5 or so? x number of cells in pack?

Thanks


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You probably want to aim for 3.45 or lower. It really depends on how close to each other all your cells come in actual capacity. What you have to watch is that the first cell that hits 3.45 may not actually have the smallest capacity, it may just have higher resistance and somewhat smaller capacity. I have one that hits 3.45 first but it will stay there for a while if I keep charging and then some others will catch up to it and pass it, heading towards 3.6 as that one starts to climb to 3.48 or so. Different temperatures can change this relationship somewhat. I just set the charger to go into constant voltage when that first cell gets around 3.45 for 15 minutes and timeout which gives me around 90+% charge. If I want more I'll reset the charger and monitor it but most of the time I just leave it. You'll have to do some experimentation to see how your cells behave.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> You probably want to aim for 3.45 or lower. It really depends on how close to each other all your cells come in actual capacity. What you have to watch is that the first cell that hits 3.45 may not actually have the smallest capacity, it may just have higher resistance and somewhat smaller capacity. I have one that hits 3.45 first but it will stay there for a while if I keep charging and then some others will catch up to it and pass it, heading towards 3.6 as that one starts to climb to 3.48 or so. Different temperatures can change this relationship somewhat. I just set the charger to go into constant voltage when that first cell gets around 3.45 for 15 minutes and timeout which gives me around 90+% charge. If I want more I'll reset the charger and monitor it but most of the time I just leave it. You'll have to do some experimentation to see how your cells behave.


Good info, thanks. I asked for my cells to be as close as possible in both capacity and resistance. It was well received. They have committed to within 4 Ah but I am pushing for 2 Ah. As for resistance, we'll see. Still pushing this. Feedback was positive though for this selection process. I indicated that I would prefer a pack that has all close together even if total capacity is less (but over minimum spec). I don't know how much I will be able to affect my charger output. It has no adjust-ability ... that I know of. Elcon 6kw.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

not to start another top vs bottom balance war... but the question I have is for those of us that are planning to start without BMS, and relying on charger high-voltage setpoint to stop charging.... why would you not TOP balance to that top set-point to have the best chance that all cells hit the top about the same time and charger handles it?

I fully understand bottom balance protects from over-discharge.... but since the daily CHARGE (for a non-BMS, non-shunt controlled charger) depends on all cells hitting the top as nearly together as possible, doesn't top-balance make sense w/ no BMS?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

If your charger doesn't have user adjustability then I would agree that top balancing would make things easier, but you do have greater risk of damage on the discharge end. Pushing 20 or less amps into a full cell on the top side or pulling 100-400 amps through an empty cell at the bottom. If you really can stay away from the bottom you'll be ok. Middle balancing is also a possible compromise, split the difference between top and bottom balancing. If your pack is close enough in capacity it probably doesn't matter either way you do it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> not to start another top vs bottom balance war... but the question I have is for those of us that are planning to start without BMS, and relying on charger high-voltage setpoint to stop charging.... why would you not TOP balance to that top set-point to have the best chance that all cells hit the top about the same time and charger handles it?
> 
> I fully understand bottom balance protects from over-discharge.... but since the daily CHARGE (for a non-BMS, non-shunt controlled charger) depends on all cells hitting the top as nearly together as possible, doesn't top-balance make sense w/ no BMS?


Yes, I hear u regarding war...lol. I'm not against a BMS approach at all, technically. 
That said, I would also say that WITHOUT a BMS.... top balance makes the least sense. As JRP indicated, the risks associated with hitting the bottom and having cells not balanced there, has been demonstrated to have catastrophic failure mode. (ie destroying lowest cell)
OEM's using NiMH tend to use "middle" of battery energy, staying away from top and bottom. This gives them long life and reduced risk, even with BMS.

I'm concerned that I will want to adjust my charger upper set point and not be able to. I need to do a little more homework here regarding my charger.
Good luck!


----------



## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

Any news in wikileaks yet, regarding top vs bottom balancing?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> That said, I would also say that WITHOUT a BMS.... top balance makes the least sense.


That actually depends on how far apart your cells are and if you can fine tune your charger. If your cells are far enough apart and you can't adjust your charger to compensate then top balancing may be the only option.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I agree with your point.. hence my concern about adjust-ability. I know I can have the charger high voltage limit set...but my ability to adjust it "in the field" may be limited. I'm also interested in the effect of resistance WRT the "race to the top".
I was referring to potential damage at the bottom. This is still the most significant, because you kill a cell. I think you are talking about repeated charging effect at the top...without BMS. In this case you likely shorten the life of one or more cells. If the difference in capacity is great enough.... damage could be more significant.... but I don't think we have seen destroyed cells from it....yet....?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't think so. However if repeated charging over volts a cell each time it might happen. When playing with my setup I pushed a couple cells to 4.0 volts once or twice with no observed ill effects, but it might be a problem if it happened every time.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> I just set the charger to go into constant voltage when that first cell gets around 3.45 for 15 minutes and timeout which gives me around 90+% charge.


And to accomplish this ... you just monitor that "first cell" and see what the pack voltage is at?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yup that's it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Upgrade time....*

Time for some upgrades. These will include:
- a 38kw pack of LiFePo4 prismatics (CALB)
- enclosed, heated, fan ventilated battery boxes.
- Power steering. MR2 electric/hydraulic pump. Original PS box.
- Zeva fuel guage driver. (already have a Cycle Analyst).

Of course some other requirement driven from above include charger modifications (6kw Elcon). Also plan on an external voltage monitor for upper voltage charge control redundant safety. (going BMS-less)

That's a good start.  I may get a paint job also... .and if I really get bored (crazy) I might try my 13" motor.... lol


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Hahaaaaaa. I see you got the Zeva also!  I hope to finish mine tomorrow. It's in a box and got mounted today. Got to install all the wiring now.


----------



## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm really interested in that roll of heater element (am I seeing that correct???).

Congrats on the pending upgrade!


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Ok, so how long should it run after the key is off? I have enclosed a quick - cheap - Radio Shack kinda thing to throw together... It does work and depending on the relay you choose a 2n2222 NpN transistor should be fine. I had it working with a 20k resistor BUT to large it won"t turn on...
> 
> the more capacitor value the longer on time - be aware it takes a bit when key is first turned on to charge the caps but that is not bad... hope this is the poor mans solution for ya


You should substitute a 10K or so rheostat (pot wired with the tap connected to one end) in place of the resistor. That way you can adjust the time to your liking. That is a nifty little circuit (edited: Circuit is at Post 394) I just may incorporate in my upgrade.


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: Upgrade time....*

so, where did you get the Zeva? I am using a cycle analyst, but not terribly impressed with accuracy. I was going to wait for Dimitri's to hit the open market....


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Re: Upgrade time....*



dtbaker said:


> so, where did you get the Zeva? I am using a cycle analyst, but not terribly impressed with accuracy. I was going to wait for Dimitri's to hit the open market....


http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=INS-ZEVA-FGDP


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I have the Zeva to drive the fuel gauge AND a cycle analyst also. The CA will give you your speed, wh/mile and a host of other data. Gizmo has it and thinks a lot of it. I had a Pak Trakr which I promptly threw in the trash once I removed the lead batteries. It's just a really poor design with very erratic operation due to electrical noise.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

david85 said:


> I'm really interested in that roll of heater element (am I seeing that correct???).
> 
> Congrats on the pending upgrade!


Hi David, yes sir... it is a very kewl product. I'm so glad I found this stuff. You can read a bit about it here.... http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/battery-box-design-54878.html


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Upgrade time....*



dtbaker said:


> so, where did you get the Zeva? I am using a cycle analyst, but not terribly impressed with accuracy. I was going to wait for Dimitri's to hit the open market....


Hey Dan, ya, I got it from Australia...lol I bought it before Dimitri had his done... I think his looks good also. I just wanted to drive the stock gauge though.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Hahaaaaaa. I see you got the Zeva also!  I hope to finish mine tomorrow. It's in a box and got mounted today. Got to install all the wiring now.


Ya,...lol. I think we have a lot of similarities in timing and selection, vehicle ideas etc. Sounds like you are tearing through your changes. I'm puttering away here when time permits, so u'll likely beat me to the finish line...lol


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

I dunno, waiting on the box to be built but I am doing a lot of changes. Don't have enough dash room for everything!


----------



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: Upgrade time....*



JRP3 said:


> http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=INS-ZEVA-FGDP



hhhmmm, interesting, but I would LIKE a more precise counter readout of both amp-hours and watt-hours for when I start trying some aero-mods to see if there are any significant improvements from simple mods. Guess I'll wait for Dimitri at this point...


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

The Cycle Analyst has a totalizer and an instant watt hour consumption readout. The poster Gizmo has one and his comments sold me on it. 

The main reason for me getting the Zeva was to drive my fuel gauge for use as an SOC gauge. Reports are it's pretty accurate as well if you set it up correctly. It also has the ability to do two things I like.


Can operate your tach to display amps with a toggle switch
Can drive an LED to operate at an SOC level you determine. For example if you want it to notify you when you're down to 70 or 80%, you just adjust a pot on the board to make it happen.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, one of my hurdles is to have my charger re-programmed for LiFePo4. (It was set for 192 volts, AGM lead-acid). While the Elcon charger met all of my wants and wished when it was applied to the pb, I was concerned about the in-ability to adjust final voltage (CC to CV) with the LiFePo. Here is what I decided to do.... The Elcon can retain 10 algorithms. These are typically selected with a specific power-on procedure pressing a program button. The difference in the 10 settings is typically not a change in voltage, but in Ah selection for battery size. I plan on charging to somewhere around 3.45 vpc...but want some flexibility. I also planned on using 65 cells, but bought 67 (two spares). This got me thinking about setting each of the 10 algorithms to a different number of cells (final voltage). So, setting #1 is for 61 cells at 3.5vpc. #2 is for 62 cells at 3.5vpc. #3 is for 63cells at 3.5vpc and so on up to #10 for 70 cells at 3.5vpc. This gives me two main options. One is that I can just install the "spares" if I want...and if I loose one cell, I change the algorithm. The other thing it offers me is the ability to change my final charge vpc. Say I am using 66 cells...this would mean charge curve # 6 would charge to 3.5vpc or 231 volts. If I wanted to lower my cc to cv point (and final charge voltage) I could just set it to curve #5. This would give me a final charge voltage of 3.45 vpc (using 66 cells). 

Anyways, if that was at all understandable....lol, this is what I did. I have my charger back now, and this is how it is programmed.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

I ran a test (once upon a time) on FOUR 12 volt lead-acid batteries in series. I used the output from ONE 6 amp 12 volt charger and pulsed the output of that charger (forgot how many ms each) with mosfets and pulsed out 1 then 2 then 3 and 4 - then 4,3,2,and 1 --- BOTH + and -. It went back and forth, reading voltage (all with a little Atmel chip) and dumped out the ones that reached (I think - ) 13.8... Strange thing is all the batteries came up to charge equal overnight BUT took longer than four chargers - but not much... But I liked the idea of hitting each battery with normal charge voltage and not running the higher 48+ volts in series. I would be goofy to suggest that 3.45 volts be tried that way ... But keep up the good work - when I am rich I too will get the LiFePo4 itch... For now the snow is coming down - the idiots have spread buckets of salt - and the fallout from Japan will reach the Midwest ! ......


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ooooooooh boy. Where to start. Here I am on the verge of another major modification. . . and I never really posted much about the last one. Funny thing happens when u buy lithium. . . it really does turn into a regular vehicle. I just drove it, and drove it, and drove it. . . and never had any problems.The batteries are still fine, no drift and well balanced. I'll see if I can find a few old pics of when I put it together.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

What are we doing this time? Is that wiring for a BMS I'm seeing there? 

I just finished looking at a new Harley. Seriously thinking about trading my 09 for a 12...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> What are we doing this time? Is that wiring for a BMS I'm seeing there?
> 
> I just finished looking at a new Harley. Seriously thinking about trading my 09 for a 12...


Hey man, how are u? Long time. How's that truck running? Happy with the 200ah CALBs? . . and I think u ended up with a Soliton1 also, right? We have (had) twin trucks. 

The wire on the packs of CALB's is just to bring a termination out to the lid of the battery boxes. No BMS. Because the boxes are sealed up, I wanted to be able to check them individually with a DVM. These can be used for balancing also if required, of course.

What am I doing u ask?? OMG. . I'm a bit crazy I guess.

9" motor out, 13" in.
Soliton1 out, Shiva in.
5 speed manual trans out, Lenco reverser coupled to Gear Vendors in.
The CALBs will stay, but a add on pack of A123's will augment current requirements and stiffen pack. Will be a hybrid pack at same voltage.

I'm also looking at/engaged in some lightening efforts.
rear bumper off, roll pan on. (This is worth 40 lbs)
May remove my 6kw charger. (depending what/if I replace it, could be another 40 lbs)
Also looking at rear springs. Need to remove the leaf I installed for the lead acid anyways, but looking at installing the OEM carbon fibre option. This has got to be worth 60 lbs. . . but not sure.
Will replace the Accessory battery with a A123 version.
Might change the DC/DC from the Iota to a small Vicor.

I actually started into this the other day. Started at noon and by supper time, I had it mostly ripped apart. I sure wish it went together as fast as it comes apart.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I got two 13" compound wound motors and made one series motor out of them. I used the two sets of heavy field coils. . had to remove some copper to get the ratio right, and built a new set. Silver soldered, wrapped, and baked. New bearings. Ready to go. I like that both the end bells are aluminum. It weighs in at 321 lbs. You can read about the motor job on this thread. . . http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52291
Here are a few pics. 
Warm thanks to Major, for his help on this. I couldn't have gotten it right without his assistance.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Regarding the "transmission". . . it will be a Lenco reverser, coupled to a Gear Vendors over drive. I should have this in a week or two. Lenco first made the input coupler and sent it to me. I had the 1 3/8" - 10 spline cut and sent it back. So, this thing, with the right spacing. . . will slip right over my output shaft. I like the spline for huge torque as it is stronger. The Lenco, which should be done today coincidentally, will go to GV and get shipped from there next week if all goes according to plan.
Here is a pic of what it will look like . . . minus the Lenco units up front. .


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I've had the Shiva for a while....


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow, I didn't know you were building a dragster truck. You have been busy! I thought about the carbon fiber leaf springs but I wasn't sure of how the truck would sit, too high, too low... They're expensive and I don't think returnable. Also didn't have them for my truck, suggested those for a Camaro "might work". Don't think I want to do "might"!

One more thing you might look at re weight is to use aluminum or titanium fasteners where you can. You may recall I used aluminum 4/0 conductors from my pack to the controller disconnect and so far so good. That was a significant weight savings and is much less expensive than copper. I crimped the ends with terminals for 3/8 studs.

I wanted to get a 24" square carbon fiber board maybe 3/16" thick to mount my new controller on but can't find anything reasonably priced so I guess it's back to wood, and I don't want that but can't see paying $250 plus for CF.

Yes I got a Soliton 1, finally. It is one heck of a controller that I'm sure I'll be happy with eventually but it took three attempts over about a months time before I got an undamaged unit. Kept getting damaged by UPS. Wouldn't send me a new one right out so I had to wait a week or more each time before a replacement or repaired one showed up. I asked for a rebate for my troubles and down time but that apparently isn't going to happen either. Not happy at all with that! 

Now I'm so busy I don't have much time to work on it. Got to get it running though, just don't see when. 

I'll keep following this thread to see how it works out, especially the drive train part. That's interesting and I'm thinking my transmission may not be around long either, especially with a new controller.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Wow, I didn't know you were building a dragster truck. You have been busy! I thought about the carbon fiber leaf springs but I wasn't sure of how the truck would sit, too high, too low... They're expensive and I don't think returnable. Also didn't have them for my truck, suggested those for a Camaro "might work". Don't think I want to do "might"!
> 
> One more thing you might look at re weight is to use aluminum or titanium fasteners where you can. You may recall I used aluminum 4/0 conductors from my pack to the controller disconnect and so far so good. That was a significant weight savings and is much less expensive than copper. I crimped the ends with terminals for 3/8 studs.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't really call it a dragster truck. . . although, u are correct I would say. Reason being, that Im not really a racer. I will have it at the track occasionally, but it will be terrorizing the streets mostly.  A pure racer would really only carry enough battery for the race + a bit. I think that building a vehicle that is "race-capable" but has 100 mile + range and will last for many years, is actually a bit more involved. Li-Poly for example, can dish out the power. . . 
but for how long? 

I wouldn't use wood if I were u. I did before for my battery box panels . . it really doesn't have a place in a modern car. The Soliton already has a big water cooled base/heat sink so, just mount it on some UHMW plastic or maybe lexan. U could use the Al honeycomb stuff also I suppose. 

Ford actually put the carbon springs in my model of truck for several years. I found a set for $200. These are used, but a newer replacement apparently. I should buy them before they are gone... 

I'm a bit shy to use the Al wire. . . I dunno....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

The "stack-a-pack" battery is A123 and made from the infamous 32157 cells with screw studs. (don't ask  ) . . and looks like this...
I've tested these to 75C. And yes, they are genuine A123 cells.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Eeeee.... Awesome!.. (where is the smilie with slobber overflowing?)

Keep us informed! 
I can't wait to see the 13'' beast coupled to the Lenco.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> I can't wait to see the 13'' beast coupled to the Lenco.


Ya, I'm kinda anxious for that part myself. There will be some fab required for the spacing but, not too bad.


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Did you get some Obamabucks or something? Jeez dude that's turned into one expensive project, even without any labor! Love those A123's too.


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> The "stack-a-pack" battery is A123 and made from the infamous 32157 cells with screw studs. (don't ask  ) . . and looks like this...
> I've tested these to 75C. And yes, they are genuine A123 cells.


Wow! these boxes look gorgeous. 

I'm really curious to see how this hybrid pack works out for you. I think I'd like to try something simliar but on a smaller scale. Not for racing just to help me get up the large hills around here without pulling 6C out of my Winstons for 20 seconds twice a day. 

How will the charging work? Will you use a seperate charger for the A123 pack? Given that this pack will be in parrellel it doesn't seem as though you'd have to have a seperate charger but something tells me I might be missing something. 

Great project


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

lol. . . only influence Obama is having on Canadian bucks right now is the squashing of the keystone pipeline. . . lol

I got the motors for $100. Spent a few hundred on mods. 

I was thinking Zilla 2kehv for a while, but at the time, the Shiva heated up and I bought the first one at a much reduced price. It wasn't that big a jump from the Zilla pricing and considering u get almost twice the power capability and a whole lot cleaner package/functionality. . ya, the batteries cost a bit. . but. . oh, ok. . ur right. . it is a bit of a money pit. lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Wow! these boxes look gorgeous.
> 
> I'm really curious to see how this hybrid pack works out for you. I think I'd like to try something simliar but on a smaller scale. Not for racing just to help me get up the large hills around here without pulling 6C out of my Winstons for 20 seconds twice a day.
> 
> ...


Hey Shane. . . ya, same charger, no need for separating. The A123's do have a slightly higher nominal. . but it's pretty much the same chemistry. My current thinking is to bottom balance the A123 pack and top balance the CALB's. (no flaming please  ). There is some reasoning behind it.
Each one of those cells will put out over 500 amps. 

I'm actually thinking to pull the big charger out of the truck to help with weight. I've never charged anywhere but home anyways. Maybe I'll put a little one in the truck and keep the big one on the wall at home. I dunno.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> ....
> Yes I got a Soliton 1, finally. It is one heck of a controller that I'm sure I'll be happy with eventually but it took three attempts over about a months time before I got an undamaged unit. Kept getting damaged by UPS. Wouldn't send me a new one right out so I had to wait a week or more each time before a replacement or repaired one showed up. I asked for a rebate for my troubles and down time but that apparently isn't going to happen either. Not happy at all with that!....


I can imagine this was frustrating for you... mainly because it was just as frustrating for us. UPS specifically approved our packaging (custom made for us by a packaging/logistics company) and since we started using it we've seen a huge reduction in damage during shipping - I think we've had 5 controllers get damaged (including your two controllers) out of the last, oh, 200 or so shipped. We will eventually get reimbursed for the shipping cost, plus a token amount for the broken ethernet port, but the 6 hours of shop time spent dealing with this is forever lost to us.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I need to come up with something for motor mounts. Any ideas out there? There isn't really enough room for mounting on the stock mounts. So, I'll pull the ones off the frame and replace with something heavy duty. I'm thinking that I will need some secondary method of transferring torque into the frame though. It may generate 2500 ft-lbs. I'm thinking a wide aluminum plate with urethane just off the frame. It would come into play with excessive torque.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> The "stack-a-pack" battery is A123 and made from the infamous 32157 cells with screw studs. (don't ask  ) . . and looks like this...
> I've tested these to 75C. And yes, they are genuine A123 cells.


Drool.... I didn't know they still made those. They fall off a truck or something?


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Jack Rickard found some heavy duty poly mounts for his dual 11 truck build, but had clearance problems and went with modifying the stock mounts. Maybe he'd sell the poly's cheap, if they'd work for you.


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

I don't know how the mazda's are, but the ranger has that crossmember just under the stock motor mounts that would just love a front motor plate with Hurst adjustable motor mounts welded into the frame and crossmember. Add a set of rear plates just about the firewall, and I'd bet the frame would tweak before the mounts would let go. I think the bigger problem would be to keep the motor case from twisting loose.

What is wrong with doing it like the 302 swaps over on TRS?


----------



## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm guessing you won't be on any of those threads debating the economics of converting a vehicle to electric...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Drool.... I didn't know they still made those. They fall off a truck or something?


ya. . . who knows with that company. It has been one royal PITA getting them.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Jack Rickard found some heavy duty poly mounts for his dual 11 truck build, but had clearance problems and went with modifying the stock mounts. Maybe he'd sell the poly's cheap, if they'd work for you.


Ya, that's a thought. I do recall it now that u mention it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> I don't know how the mazda's are, but the ranger has that crossmember just under the stock motor mounts that would just love a front motor plate with Hurst adjustable motor mounts welded into the frame and crossmember. Add a set of rear plates just about the firewall, and I'd bet the frame would tweak before the mounts would let go. I think the bigger problem would be to keep the motor case from twisting loose.
> 
> What is wrong with doing it like the 302 swaps over on TRS?


The Ranger and Mazda B series are the exact same truck under the sheet metal. . . so ya. Not sure what the Hurst mounts look like that you mention. Will have to check it out. Thanks.
As for the motor, both end bells have some significant mount holes in them. I could snap a few pics.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

tomofreno said:


> I'm guessing you won't be on any of those threads debating the economics of converting a vehicle to electric...


hehehe, not any time soon. Consider it my gift. . . to turn some heads and change some minds. Fast stuff gets a lot of attention.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> It may generate 2500 ft-lbs. It would come into play with excessive torque.


Yea, extreme torque and relatively low speed....

Hey DIYguy, I just realised that I never saw the brush holder of your 13'' beast...
Do you have some secret to share? helwig split brushes?? 
After all, you will need impressive brush to pass 3000A to the armature.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Yea, extreme torque and relatively low speed....
> 
> Hey DIYguy, I just realised that I never saw the brush holder of your 13'' beast...
> Do you have some secret to share? helwig split brushes??
> After all, you will need impressive brush to pass 3000A to the armature.


Low speed? hmmm ok. lol ya think?? lol

It's similar as others. Just bloody big. 8 brush set with large conductors. I haven't ordered the Helwigs yet. It's on my todo list. Will need to be H49 grade.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

For the main motor mounts, I think I will just buy a set of bushings and fab up the rest. I still need to come up with a secondary torque control mount . . .


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok! They are absolutely identical to the brush holder of my dead 11'' motor. Each brush is 5/8'' x 1-1/4'', right?

Low speed, yea! After all, 2500 lbs-ft is over 700 hp at 1500 rpm!!!
Do you really think be able to output more than 500-600 hp?
I guess you have done a rough estimation before spend all this money, right?...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Ok! They are absolutely identical to the brush holder of my dead 11'' motor. Each brush is 5/8'' x 1-1/4'', right?
> 
> Low speed, yea! After all, 2500 lbs-ft is over 700 hp at 1500 rpm!!!
> Do you really think be able to output more than 500-600 hp?
> I guess you have done a rough estimation before spend all this money, right?...


Do you have a point you would like to make?


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Haha! not really, but I'm interested to know how much power I would need in my Smart to beat you on the 1/4 mile....

Seriously, do you have an estimate?
And your brush holder is it the same than mine?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Haha! not really, but I'm interested to know how much power I would need in my Smart to beat you on the 1/4 mile....


well, u seem to be competent in math. . so, I guess you can figure it out. 



Yabert said:


> , do you have an estimate?


oh, maybe one or two.



Yabert said:


> your brush holder is it the same than mine?





Yabert said:


> They are absolutely identical to the brush holder of my dead 11'' motor.





Yabert said:


> Each brush is 5/8'' x 1-1/4'', right?


Wrong.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> well, u seem to be competent in math. . so, I guess you can figure it out.


Probably. Can you remember me how much serie string is your battery pack? 60? 64?
And the weight of your truck with battery? 
I'm just curious!..


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Probably. Can you remember me how much serie string is your battery pack? 60? 64?
> And the weight of your truck with battery?
> I'm just curious!..


66.... and too damn heavy..  . . . u may need just a little more power there Yabert....


----------



## zafh15a (Mar 13, 2012)

mounted a warp 11 in a 95 ranger. I used the stock mounts and a universal control arm bumper. I cut 4 pieces of 1/4" plate 4" x 5" drilled a body hole in two of the plates for the studs in the original engine mounts. I drilled 3 holes in the other two plates matching the bolt pattern of the field coil mounting bolts. with the motor bolted to the bell housing and supported with a floor jack for proper drive shaft angle I bolted the plates in their respective positions (replaced field coil bolts with 1.750" stainless ). Used a mig welder to tack each pair of plates together in place. Then removed the two now tacked together assembles from the motor and used a arc welder to completely weld the plates together full length. after cooling I reinstalled the two motor mounting plate assemblies. I then installed the universal control arm bumper in the hole that is centered in the cross member just under the front of the motor. 

result is a securely mounted motor with good torque control, good rubber isolation, good weight support, low cost ($30.00), limited time and effort (1hour). This is not a drag racing setup but quite suitable for street use could be beefed up by drilling and tapping holes instead of using field coil bolt holes.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

zafh15a said:


> mounted a warp 11 in a 95 ranger. I used the stock mounts and a universal control arm bumper. I cut 4 pieces of 1/4" plate 4" x 5" drilled a body hole in two of the plates for the studs in the original engine mounts. I drilled 3 holes in the other two plates matching the bolt pattern of the field coil mounting bolts. with the motor bolted to the bell housing and supported with a floor jack for proper drive shaft angle I bolted the plates in their respective positions (replaced field coil bolts with 1.750" stainless ). Used a mig welder to tack each pair of plates together in place. Then removed the two now tacked together assembles from the motor and used a arc welder to completely weld the plates together full length. after cooling I reinstalled the two motor mounting plate assemblies. I then installed the universal control arm bumper in the hole that is centered in the cross member just under the front of the motor.
> 
> result is a securely mounted motor with good torque control, good rubber isolation, good weight support, low cost ($30.00), limited time and effort (1hour). This is not a drag racing setup but quite suitable for street use could be beefed up by drilling and tapping holes instead of using field coil bolt holes.


Hey, thanks very much for your post zaf. Do you have any pictures of your set up?
I agree it's best in many cases to set the motor up in the best position and tack weld your mount system. I did my truck originally in a similar manner with the 9" using the stock mounts on the frame and a cut up version of the stock mounts (ICE side) that I welded up to the "ring mount". I also used a small shock absorber from the original 4.0 litre mount system to control torque. This worked really well. It would rotate slightly and get dampened with the shock. 

I'm a bit worried about the stock mounts taking the torque of the 13" so I want to use a captive tube style urethane mount plus a secondary . . . which I haven't decided on yet. I kind of like what this chap did... (pics below)


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

First of all, what happened to the 11" motor? I see you mentioned it's toast. 

Also, have you thought about tying that monster down at both ends? I'd be concerned that using only one end bell could allow the end bell bolts to shear should you somehow apply enough torque to the ground. 

It's funny you're doing what you are with this upgrade. I thought about doing something similar with a direct drive or 2:1 reducer then reversing the power for reverse or something else. Looks like the something else for reverse you've figured out now.

Can't wait for the burnout photos!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> First of all, what happened to the 11" motor? I see you mentioned it's toast.


I did? I have a beautiful 11 GE, just waiting for a nice home. The truck had a 9" in it, and it is still working fine. What a great motor. I still think the GE's are the best.
edit. . oh, I think ur referring to Yabert. He lunched his 11". That's the guy who is vying to beat me in the 1/4, with his smart car. 



ElectriCar said:


> Also, have you thought about tying that monster down at both ends? I'd be concerned that using only one end bell could allow the end bell bolts to shear should you somehow apply enough torque to the ground.


Oh definitely. I plan on two mounting points for sure. There are some real heavy mount holes in both end bells. Heli-coils in the aluminum. I ordered some urethane bushing assemblies. I looked all over and found a local place that has a lot of really nice stuff. I'll post a link and pics later.
edit; ok, here's the link. Nice stuff there. http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/
Attached is a pic of what I bought. These are heavy duty, not like most of the others I found, and the price is a great value at 18.95 each or $72 for the 4-pack.



ElectriCar said:


> It's funny you're doing what you are with this upgrade. I thought about doing something similar with a direct drive or 2:1 reducer then reversing the power for reverse or something else. Looks like the something else for reverse you've figured out now.


Oh, I'm not surprised.... u keep thinking like me. There is an electric reverse some guys use in the racing world where they power the field from a 12 volt battery in the opposite direction and are able to back up. It's not that powerful I think and not really good enough for a street vehicle. 


ElectriCar said:


> Can't wait for the burnout photos!


ahhhh... yes.... me too


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> oh, I think ur referring to Yabert. He lunched his 11". That's the guy who is vying to beat me in the 1/4, with his smart car.


.. Haha, no chance with my little 120-130 Hp peak!




> I did? I have a beautiful 11 GE, just waiting for a nice home. The truck had a 9" in it, and it is still working fine. What a great motor. I still think the GE's are the best.
> edit. .


Hey! I also have an 11'' GE at home. Longer motor than my last 11'' crown motor.
Let me know if you need to build a dual 11'' motor set-up...
Maybe if the 13'' really don't apreciate the 3000A...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Hey! I also have an 11'' GE at home. Longer motor than my last 11'' crown motor.
> Let me know if you need to build a dual 11'' motor set-up...
> Maybe if the 13'' really don't apreciate the 3000A...


Whats the length of your 11"

As for the current. . . it's all a matter of the time...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Here are some close ups of the end bells and the mount holes in them.

On the drive end, I will likely need to use all the outer bolts to secure a spacer for the Lenco/GV. That said, I may go through to the three lower mount holes for some kind of mount tie in.

On the CE, I'm actually going to drill a large hole in the middle.  The armature has a tapped hole in it. I will use this to mount a spacer and reluctor for tacho-generator. The bearing is sealed just like the exposed one on the drive end, so, it should matter not.
Kinda nice mount surface there. I also got a very heavy steel mount that bolts to these holes and a heavy split ring mount that could be used also. I'll have to grab a few pics.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I called Lenco again today. OMG, these guys are brutal. Its been several months of "getting ready"... It "should be done" on Monday.. case had to get coated. They kind of have u over a barrel, so, u can't say much. . .but what a journey.
The guys at GV seem to have their crap together. 1.5 weeks lead time,.... but no excuses and they know what they're doing. They claim several "tweaks" for heavy use, high torque applications. The adaptor kit for the Lenco is $800 so, I just couldn't see buying a used one for $1500 and taking chances while adding the $800 to it. I would be within a few hundred bucks of a new unit. New one with all the electronics, bells and whistles is $2,850.00


----------



## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Now if your last name was, say perhaps, Chenowith, might you get better C/S than this? Don't you just hate that?


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> Whats the length of your 11"
> 
> As for the current. . . it's all a matter of the time...


Indeed...

My GE 11'' housing measure 10'' long. Post 199: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/smart-fortwo-ev-high-power-version-51472p20.html
I was also found two other GE 11'' at the forklift repair shop, but the guy ask a high price.... and they are both too long to fit in my Smart!!..


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Now if your last name was, say perhaps, Chenowith, might you get better C/S than this? Don't you just hate that?


Yes, no kidding. Not a very good way to run a business but.. . what do u do?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Indeed...
> 
> My GE 11'' housing measure 10'' long. Post 199: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/smart-fortwo-ev-high-power-version-51472p20.html
> I was also found two other GE 11'' at the forklift repair shop, but the guy ask a high price.... and they are both too long to fit in my Smart!!..


Too bad u didn't find one like my 11 GE when u were looking. The yoke on it is just 7.5" long.  This thing would be sweet for a smaller car.

Was just looking at your build thread. Nice job. Looks like u made the motor shorter with a different DE/adaptor. I think the armature and field poles in my motor are probably about the same as what you had. I should check the overall length, but I think it is about 15"


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Well, I got my motor mounts from TMR. Nice. Heavy duty tubing, with grease nipple. 

Sounds like my tranny stuff is about ready to ship. Geeesh, about freakin time. lol


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Was just scrolling through some pics on my BB. . not too good quality... but here is a little battery eye candy.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

And here is what we get to put up with here. . . I had to wait for some ice to melt before I could charge.. lol (brings new meaning to the term "candy apple red" lol


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

I usually smack that sort of ice at the gap of the filler door with the back of a plastic screwdriver or smack it with my ice scraper to chip it away. I suppose a hair dryer might do it effectively too. Either way, just make sure you are hitting ice and not paint.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> And here is what we get to put up with here. . . I had to wait for some ice to melt before I could charge.. lol (brings new meaning to the term "candy apple red" lol


Would it be inappropriate of me to mention how nice the weather is in Sunny Florida right now???


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

MN Driver said:


> I usually smack that sort of ice at the gap of the filler door with the back of a plastic screwdriver or smack it with my ice scraper to chip it away. I suppose a hair dryer might do it effectively too. Either way, just make sure you are hitting ice and not paint.


I didn't want to mess up my nice paint job (NOT lol) It was surprisingly thick on this part of the truck. I just parked it in the garage.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Would it be inappropriate of me to mention how nice the weather is in Sunny Florida right now???


YES! While this ice job actually happened earlier in the winter.. . we have been having snow! the last couple days. 

This morning is opening day for Wild Turkey, so off I went 5:30 this am. Good thing there was no friggin snow. It has warmed a few degrees.


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> YES! While this ice job actually happened earlier in the winter.. . we have been having snow! the last couple days.
> 
> This morning is opening day for Wild Turkey, so off I went 5:30 this am. Good thing there was no friggin snow. It has warmed a few degrees.


It's -1 C here today so I don't want hear any complaining from either of you!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> It's -1 C here today so I don't want hear any complaining from either of you!


ha! c'mon, u luv it. lol

Our low is about the same, ) this morning... . . but its suppose to creep up to 10C today I think! The sun is back!


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

It was a bit nippy here in Florida this morning... about 19C. It's warmed up now to 22, maybe 23C...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> It was a bit nippy here in Florida this morning... about 19C. It's warmed up now to 22, maybe 23C...


Nipppy??? R u kiddin me? lmao... 

U can always tell the Canadians in Florida in the winter. They walk around in shorts and t shirts when ur having a cold day. . . and everyone else has a jacket on. lol


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Oh, yeah... we can definitely pick out the Canadians in the winter, and for exactly the reasons you listed, plus one: they are always sunburned from the beach! 

But enough carping about the weather - when are you going to find out if Shiva lives up to her name?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Oh, yeah... we can definitely pick out the Canadians in the winter, and for exactly the reasons you listed, plus one: they are always sunburned from the beach!
> 
> But enough carping about the weather - when are you going to find out if Shiva lives up to her name?


YA. . . well, here's the rub. I want/need the reverser and GV before moving fwd. I tore everything apart a few weeks ago. Both items were shipped yesterday and are on their way. So, I should be able to actually put this thing back together shortly. With my luck, something won't go together (motor trans) the way it's suppose to.

The last few batteries are on their way to finish my second pack. There are no more 32157's in Asia, period. . . and u can't get them here. I will have one piece for a spare. lol

So.... should be able to show something soon. 

What about the chap that ended up getting "my" controller. (the first one shipped) cause he was in such a hurry, and I wasn't.  ? 

I know Ron will have his going soon enough also. I was kinda hopping someone would beat me to it . Just incase there were some surprises. . . lol


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

That was EV West. They had a photo shoot for a magazine or the like scheduled and needed the controller in a hurry. IIRC, the Shiva got to them the day of the shoot so they just chucked it under the hood, connected up the motor cables, and let the rest slide... literally, probably, since there don't appear to be any bolts holding The Destroyer down...


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> ...
> I know Ron will have his going soon enough also. I was kinda hopping someone would beat me to it . Just incase there were some surprises. . . lol


Missed this one... yeah, it's a brand new product that has been tested to 425V and 2500A, just not both at the same time (only Ron has that powerful of a pack - on paper, anyway). Otherwise it is basically 8 Jrs in a single box, with a special interface board to manage the IGBTs and a completely different current sensor (we had to resort to a locomotive current sensor! not exactly a "Digikey" item!)

Seb did install a Shiva in the 911 demo vehicle and ran the pack from full charge to exhaustion (fortunately only 1km from the shop) with me *attempting* to follow while Chris Ruoff (Charged EVs) filmed. The 911 with a Soliton1 (and the two motors wired in series) can accelerate from a dead stop so hard that my vision starts to tunnel - no kidding, I literally start to black out - but with a Shiva installed and the motors wired in parallel, it can accelerate that hard starting at 80mph in 4th gear. And that's just with a 6p96s Headway pack! That wasn't even enough power to warm the Shiva up (Seb didn't even bother to hook up the liquid cooling).

Oh, and it took 11 miles to drain the pack. Normal range for the car is 40-50 miles.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Missed this one... yeah, it's a brand new product that has been tested to 425V and 2500A, just not both at the same time (only Ron has that powerful of a pack - on paper, anyway). Otherwise it is basically 8 Jrs in a single box, with a special interface board to manage the IGBTs and a completely different current sensor (we had to resort to a locomotive current sensor! not exactly a "Digikey" item!)
> 
> Seb did install a Shiva in the 911 demo vehicle and ran the pack from full charge to exhaustion (fortunately only 1km from the shop) with me *attempting* to follow while Chris Ruoff (Charged EVs) filmed. The 911 with a Soliton1 (and the two motors wired in series) can accelerate from a dead stop so hard that my vision starts to tunnel - no kidding, I literally start to black out - but with a Shiva installed and the motors wired in parallel, it can accelerate that hard starting at 80mph in 4th gear. And that's just with a 6p96s Headway pack! That wasn't even enough power to warm the Shiva up (Seb didn't even bother to hook up the liquid cooling).
> 
> Oh, and it took 11 miles to drain the pack. Normal range for the car is 40-50 miles.


Just plain crazy. lol I won't have a problem hitting the 2500 amp limit. . . but mine won't be near that voltage. . . at least not until I get use to the g force and stop blacking out. Then maybe I'll double my voltage. . .  lol 
Hopefully the log files will allow a bump in current to 3000 or so.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Finally got the transmission stuff home. That was a bit of a journey.  Took some work to get it together also. It's still not done either. Just put it together to get some critical dim's and sort out some mounting issues. Still have to make the adaptor plate set up. The input coupler does fit my motor shaft and the seal is the right dim also. . . but the distance between the two isn't quite right. I think I have it figured out though. Here's a couple pics.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tranny is ready to go. Bit of custom work to space the coupler and get the Lenco connected. All buttoned up now.


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

DIYguy said:


> Tranny is ready to go. Bit of custom work to space the coupler and get the Lenco connected. All buttoned up now.


Hey DIY,

I'm curious how this transmission setup works. I'm assuming that the Lenco reverser will give you reverse so the gear vendor overdrive will give you two gears: the 1:1 and the overdrive. Is that correct? 

It seems like a very elligant solution I'm just wondering why I haven't seen it before. Is it because the gearing is such that you need alot of torque to get started?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Hey DIY,
> 
> I'm curious how this transmission setup works. I'm assuming that the Lenco reverser will give you reverse so the gear vendor overdrive will give you two gears: the 1:1 and the overdrive. Is that correct?
> 
> It seems like a very elligant solution I'm just wondering why I haven't seen it before. Is it because the gearing is such that you need alot of torque to get started?


Hey Shane,

Yes the "first" piece is the Lenco and it gives me the fwd, reverse and neutral is an option that I have also. The GV is an overdrive so, yes, 1:1 and overdrive at .78:1. 

You are correct that it really works best with higher torque applications however, as you know it all comes down to the final ratio. If you were using a lower power set up, say a typical 9" motor and 1000 amps lets say, you would likely want some gear reduction. In this case, you could go with a Lenco 1200 or CS1, CS2 etc with the reverser. Most people just use the tranny that came with the vehicle if they can. As you know, the higher torque of an EV can be problematic and the automatics are a bit challenging also. The components I chose are really well suited to EV application and you are right, it's surprising more don't go this way. Cost is always an issue of course. Most EV's only need 2 fwd speeds anyways so, depending what your differential ratio is, you can under drive or overdrive to get it.
One of the reasons I like the GV unit is that it is very efficient. Like a manual transmission, but can be used like an auto or auto-stick. The clue is in the heat, or lack there-of and evidenced by no need for a trans cooler. I will have to change the fluid every 5000 miles or so. That's the trade off for being smaller with no filter system.
In my case, I have the bigger 13" motor lots of torque, but need to overdrive it to get a higher top speed. I also need something that will handle 2000 to 2500 ft-lbs torque. Incidentally, ring/pinion ratios that are lower numerically (higher in gear, like 308 vs 410 for example) are actually inherently stronger also by virtue of there design and number of gear teeth.
Typically, one Lenco unit gives you two fwd speeds, two units gives you three speeds, etc. LEnco also makes an automatic. You need the reverser on top of either. Of course these units are made for higher torque/hp applications. You can pick up used ones on Racingjunk.com. GV can be found on Ebay for 1200 - 1500 for a good one. 
I opted for new for a few reasons. One is that the adaptor to the Lenco was $800. Put that on top of the cost for a used one, and ur getting close to the cost of a new one. Additionally, they set up/tweek the GV unit at the factory for high torque applications. . . and I don't buy someone else's problems.


----------



## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

"The components I chose are really well suited to EV application and you are right, it's surprising more don't go this way. Cost is always an issue of course. Most EV's only need 2 fwd speeds anyways so, depending what your differential ratio is, you can under drive or overdrive to get it.
One of the reasons I like the GV unit is that it is very efficient. Like a manual transmission, but can be used like an auto or auto-stick. The clue is in the heat, or lack there-of and evidenced by no need for a trans cooler. I will have to change the fluid every 5000 miles or so. That's the trade off for being smaller with no filter system."

I wouldn't mind going that direction but where do you find a stand-alone differential for a FWD that can handle the torque? Works great for RWD, plenty of differential options. Manual transmissions don't usually have a filter or a cooler and mine swaps 1.5 quarts and I think the manufacturer says 100k miles, although I change more often than that. Of course, extreme use is something different.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

MN Driver said:


> I wouldn't mind going that direction but where do you find a stand-alone differential for a FWD that can handle the torque? Works great for RWD, plenty of differential options. Manual transmissions don't usually have a filter or a cooler and mine swaps 1.5 quarts and I think the manufacturer says 100k miles, although I change more often than that. Of course, extreme use is something different.


True enough for fwd.. 
As for the fluid thing, unlike a manual transmission, the GV unit actually has clutches in it... I believe that's the difference. It's kind of like a hybrid of sorts.


----------



## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Shane,
> 
> Yes the "first" piece is the Lenco and it gives me the fwd, reverse and neutral is an option that I have also. The GV is an overdrive so, yes, 1:1 and overdrive at .78:1.


Would you mind naming the part numbers you are using? Also was the adapter between the lenco and gear vendors custom made? Thanks.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

drgrieve said:


> Would you mind naming the part numbers you are using? Also was the adapter between the lenco and gear vendors custom made? Thanks.


I'll have to get the part number for the GV unit for you. You probably need to call them anyways. Ask for Nick. It's good to discuss with them as they do make some tweaks to the set up of the unit for higher torque applications. The piece that adapts the GV to the Lenco is part of the GV package. Basically, you have to remove the end cap from the LEnco unit then remove the bearing assembly from this end cap and reinstall it on the plate supplied by GV. The output shaft comes along with the bearing unit. The seal and retainer from original Lenco end cap are no longer needed.

I had to grind the end of the screws off as they protruded too far and interfered with the mating surface.

That small round piece of stock in the bottom right of the first picture is part of the spacing provided to shim the coupler (can be seen inside the adaptor) to the right position. In addition to this solid spacer, there are several thin shims. I found that the solid spacer was way too long and had a new one turned . . to length of 0.540". . then used only one shim to get the right position . . which is 0.005" to 0.035" from the mating surface plane. (this is in the manual).

The tricky part is not the connection from the GV to the Lenco. This is mostly done for you. The issue will be in connecting the Lenco to your motor. You must match three things mainly. The spline or input coupler design of motor shaft to Lenco input. The position of the seal so it rides in the right place (diameter of course is also an issue) and finally the length of the output shaft in relation to the Lenco mount location . . often referred to as the Magic Number when marrying oem transmissions.

The one picture shows me tapping the four retainer holes (holes were there, but no threads) I later realized that this is not required. The bearing is retained with the GV plate. No wonder the holes weren't tapped... duh...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Finally in one piece. Now I can take it all apart, one more time... lmao


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

drgrieve said:


> Would you mind naming the part numbers you are using? Also was the adapter between the lenco and gear vendors custom made? Thanks.


Hey dr.... the GV part number is: 

3D1200C - Lenco ST1200 Overdrive Kit, MC Slip.
3S0043 - Speedo Sleeve and Gear Assy 43T

As for the Lenco, I received no paperwork.  No manual. No instructions. They sell one main Reverser that works with all their product. I know they also have a Top Fuel Dragster version also. . . and perhaps the ST1200 has is different (even tho it looks the same, and the GV references it. . bolt pattern same also). 
When I asked about oil. . . it was, "oh, anything you like, but I don't really like to say ATF" lmao... no kidding.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, I pulled the motor apart for a few reasons. Most importantly to get it upstairs into my garage. I decided to reassemble the motor without the armature, pole shoes, and coils. Basically an empty shell. I dad an extra CE bell so I put that on, and the DE bell with adapter and the transmission so I could install it and start to figure out the mounting scheme.

This is a really good way to handle a heavy motor. The whole process took less than 2 hours..


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

well, I finally got the big pig back together. I had the armature balanced. It was actually out more than I thought. It cost me over $300 Jeez. I had it done for a 5000 rpm limit. I'm not exactly sure how they do it. . . but I think they zero in on a derivative of the anticipated top rpm and harmonic frequency. Anyways, I got a kewl report on it. I can post it if anyone cares.

I made up my motor mounts and "tranny" mount. Removed the two piece drive shaft and replaced with a 4" diameter aluminum one. This saved about 20 lbs off the shaft + the cross member. Good deal. Let me see what pics I took.

Just to give you an idea of the size. . . . those motor mount bolts are 9/16" diameter (grade 8).

I also got the reverse shifter mounted. (sorry, forgot to take pics). I had them send me a length of aluminum rod and cut it to length. Had to drill/tap new hole in the cut end. Had to make a bracket to mount it on GV unit also as it is meant to mount on the reverser. . . which, in my case, if up front.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

For those of you who may have a motor with no aux shaft and you are concerned about installing a tacho-generator. . . have a look. Many motors with no auxiliary shaft can still accept a tacho-generator set up on the front end. First you need to see if your armature has a threaded hole in this end. If it doesn't, you can have one added. It needs to be done on a lathe though, I would suggest. Next, find the centre of the cover and drill a hole large enough to accept a screw and spacer/lock washer. I used two bearings, the original one and a smaller one that fit the ID of the original . . . to centre the drill hole. Don't worry about dust or contamination into the bearing housing. your bearing is sealed anyways so it won't matter (no different than drive end being exposed) I made my hole just slightly bigger though. Get a collar that fits the screw tightly and add a second set screw opposite the one existing. Assemble and tighten using blue locktite. Now you can mount your industrial prox or other sensor. 
Now I just need to find, or make a nice cover.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Before assembling, I mask and coat most surfaces with insulating varnish.


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Nice!............


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Dave. Hopefully that helps someone. I was thinking to post it in the motor section.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Spent the last few hours trying to figure out how to mount the Shiva. I knew I could get it in lengthwise front/back. . but I also knew that would drive a complete rebuild of the front battery box, moving the power steering pump and blocking one of the cooling ports. argh. . . i finally figured out that I could mount it transverse and push it back to the firewall (required to fit other stuff) if I got rid of the AC condenser part of the heater box. I don't have AC anyways.... so, what the heck. Now I just have to make up a new cover for the for the heater box . . . or mod the original. 

Still gonna be a pain to get at the Shiva terminals . . .so, maybe I can remote them. But all other issues are gone.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

zsnemeth said:


> I'm no sure about the varnish on the brush holder part. Probably it's no biggie, but varnish doesn't act as heat insulation on the copper holder?
> Just a thought...


Hey zsn. Its a good thought. I had the same one before deciding to do it the first time. I've done a dew motors this way now with no problems. Glyptol is one trade name, mine is a different brand but basically it has a dielectric property of 2100 volts per mil. Its rated Class F and flexible. Made for motor jobs. I think mine is made by Crown. The main reason is to help protect against flashovers (Zorching). I later learned that some motor builders do the same thing. Thanks for the comment tho, it helps others.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Awesome job DIYguy.

It's impressive to see how many space staying available in front of motor/controller.
I can wait to see this little (monster) pick-up hitting the road!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Awesome job DIYguy.
> 
> It's impressive to see how many space staying available in front of motor/controller.
> I can wait to see this little (monster) pick-up hitting the road!


Thanks Yabert. Ya, glad I figured to do it this way. Still have some fabricating to do for mounting steel. . . but I managed to rebuild/shave down the heater box cover. I was thinking to find one from a truck with no AC, till I found out that the box is the same . . just has no condenser rad. So, . . .chop, chop.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

*Shiva's alive....*

Well, I breathed some life into the Destroyer tonight.  Wires everywhere and running off 15 volts (which is a good idea, btw for a start-up). I've seen a few guys spin motors on initial power up. Cant do it with 15 volts.  The nice thing is that everything worked right out of the gate. Turned the key and the vacuum pump fired up . . blinking lights on the Shiva. Several faults. Set up some basic parameters, cleared the faults, calibrated the throttle and vroom.  Had to adjust the speed sensor in touch. . . but it works too. The coolant pump didn't come on . . but, I didn't generate any heat yet...lol 
Still lots to do... but, it's another milestone....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I wasn't happy with the mounting for the Shiva. What was there was made for a much lighter Soliton1. So, I chopped it all out and started over. Solid now. It's a removable frame in case I have to pull the motor of course. All takes time.

I got the shifter installed also, but I think I will move it fwd a few inches . . + I have to make a new floor close-out to fit.


----------



## Jozzer (Mar 29, 2009)

Good work! How long till the first wheelspin?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Jozzer said:


> Good work! How long till the first wheelspin?


Hey Steve! How r u man? Ohh... shouldn't be long now. Another week maybe. Lots of details but, I should have it back on the road soon barring any unforeseen goof ups.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Been chippin away here. . . but as always, there is "stuff" to do which, in some cases, is unrelated to actual functionality. Like painting under the box. . I had to move one of the rear battery boxes to make room for the larger diameter aluminum drive shaft. It's 4" and I believe it came from a big Ford truck. It cost me $100 so, no biggie. I decided to measure and get some approximate lengths and then set motor trans according to the shaft I found instead of cutting one after the fact. This actually worked out rather well. 

I also had to finish up my blower assy before I can install the front battery box, steering pump etc. I used the blower and adaptor I made for the 9" and just got a piece of SS sheared the same size as the 13" vent band. I swiped the latch assy from this original band also. It was nice to have the spare comm end bell for fitment.


----------



## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

I love that it looks like a turbo or supercharger pipe.

Metric


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

John Metric said:


> I love that it looks like a turbo or supercharger pipe.
> 
> Metric


Hey John,. . . ya, except you can't see it when everything else is in place....


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

So, i have been driving this beast for several weeks while now. I've had two issues. One blown battery fuse (underrated for higher current). Im still running the CALB cells only.
Other issue was twisting off my rear wheel studs on one side.  Not as crazy as it sounds because I have a few sets of wheels and my LRR tires are mounted on aluminum rims that need offset spacers. Be careful what you buy here. . . a lot of these have no concentric support and the studs are "cheese bolts" . . I call them. Had to replace with OEM studs. At less than $2.00 each, check this route out if u ever need them. Aftermarket "quality" lugs are $75 - $100 per wheel! 

Anyways, after changing out the fusing and bumping up the settings in the Shiva. All I can say is Wholly Shit.

I need traction now. I do have a set of Mustang 18" Bullets with fat tires. 

I don't have much left to do on the A123 pack to stiffen up the CALB pack. I just need to get this buttoned up and installed. I'd like to take her to the track for the heck of it before they all close.


----------



## Jan (Oct 5, 2009)

I would love to see a video while accelerating... Especially of your face.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Jan said:


> I would love to see a video while accelerating... Especially of your face.


LOL, it is quite something. Although in first gear, it just wants to spin both tires. I have an 8.8 Ford 3.55:1 Posi. I would be worried about hooking up the tires with it though, as the truck is pretty heavy. I may twist an axle. That 13" motor really puts down the torque. It would be similar to two 11" motors.

If anyone is wondering about the C-Rate from the CALB SE cells. . . I wouldn't worry about it. Short term 10 C is routine.


----------



## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

Cool! I can wait to see this monster in action.



DIYguy said:


> Short term 10 C is routine.


What specifically represent short term 10C discharge? 2-3 seconds or more?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yabert said:


> Cool! I can wait to see this monster in action.
> 
> 
> What specifically represent short term 10C discharge? 2-3 seconds or more?


I guess it's time for a Go-Pro . . 

I dunno, the CA just captures peak events. I will get the logger going here and see what's really going on.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> ...Anyways, after changing out the fusing and bumping up the settings in the Shiva. All I can say is Wholly Shit.....


Woohoo! Finally!

Send me a log file of a hard acceleration when you get a chance! Our twin Warp-9 dyno can't come anywhere close to maxing out a Shiva (except on voltage) and we can't afford our own products so we have to live vicariously through others...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Tesseract said:


> Woohoo! Finally!
> 
> Send me a log file of a hard acceleration when you get a chance! Our twin Warp-9 dyno can't come anywhere close to maxing out a Shiva (except on voltage) and we can't afford our own products so we have to live vicariously through others...


Hey Jeff. My pleasure. You'll get the first one. Thanks for all your help and the great products. 
While I have used the logger quite a few times, I've never actually tried to capture an acceleration event. I imagine I just have to start logger and let her rip and history file will get created/updated? I've only used it for checking rpm and such. 
You can tell Seb to start that warranty as off two weeks ago. 

As for the "finally" part... ya, I know. Although I did let EVWest have the the production # 001 Shiva and I wasn't long after them. . . was I? I think Ron and I were pretty close in getting them fired up. Did u get a log from him yet?

The more interesting log file will come in a few weeks when I strap the A123 packs in.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

A long long time ago. . . but I can still remember, how that music use to make me smile. . . ooops, . . . . i mean I remember when I added a leaf to my leaf spring stack. (Post 171) to handle all the lead acid batteries. 
So, now that I have the lithium AND I am trying to shed weight. ( i have a list I should post for you guys to beat me up on). I been looking for, and finally found a nice set of OEM carbon fiber leaf springs. Yep, Ford put them on the Ranger for a number of years. Suppose to ride better also. But I want them cause they weigh nothing compared to that stack I have. . . which is too strong anyways right now with that extra leaf. The truck sits up a bit too high on the back now. I know the front is heaver also with the 13" and the Shiva up there. I'm gonna get it weighed again, overall and front/back. Maybe I will move some weight, we'll see. Anyways, have a look at these.  Cost me $75 each and the note on them indicated that they were new replacements on the truck they came off of. I will compare weight when I pull off other stack. I need to get new bushings first.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I put a roll pan on the back also and lost the step bumper. That was good for almost 40 lbs. 
The aluminum drive shaft that replaced the two piece with hanger bearing and cross members was good for another 30 lbs or so. I have some A123 32113 cells with screw studs for the 12 volt battery replacement also. Let see what else. . . .
Oh, I'm really thinking hard to remove my charger from the truck. It is a big heavy brute (6KW) and I have never charged anywhere but at home, honestly. That thing must weigh 45 lbs. Maybe I could get a smaller one to carry for 110volt only. . . I dunno.
I have box liner to remove. A coat of box guard should help.
I did a little spread sheet showing amount of weight (some guesses). . . cost, math shows $/lb and rating for what should be done first . (which I am not doing in order lol).
Oh I took off the Mustang bullets and wide tires. I put on Michelin Energy Savers with light aluminum rims. That was good for 20 lbs/wheel! I couldn't believe it. It really coasts well now.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> ...While I have used the logger quite a few times, I've never actually tried to capture an acceleration event. I imagine I just have to start logger and let her rip and history file will get created/updated?


Yep, more or less: double-click on logger to start it, hit the go pedal for as long as you dare, then close logger. The file it creates- logger.txt - is located wherever logger was run from and it is overwritten each time logger is started so you'll need to rename it before running logger again.



DIYguy said:


> You can tell Seb to start that warranty as off two weeks ago.


Hopefully you won't need it... 



DIYguy said:


> As for the "finally" part... ya, I know. Although I did let EVWest have the the production # 001 Shiva and I wasn't long after them. . . was I? I think Ron and I were pretty close in getting them fired up. Did u get a log from him yet?


Nope, we haven't received log files from ANYONE besides Seb, and that was from when he installed the Shiva prototype in our 1978 Porsche 911 with twin WarP-9 motors (wired in parallel). We managed to push 2500-2600A through the motors before traction turned into a distant yet fond memory... I imagine you will run into a similar problem with your monster 13" motor. But hey - having too much torque is a good problem to have, right?


----------



## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

If traction is a problem for the logger runs you could just start loading the bed with weight until that is no longer an issue.  

Tess: You guys should build a direct drive test truck with a row of motors and as much lead as you can afford in the bed. Get it up to about 9000lbs and you should have no problem loading up the Shiva.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Batterypoweredtoad said:


> Tess: You guys should build a direct drive test truck with a row of motors and as much lead as you can afford in the bed. Get it up to about 9000lbs and you should have no problem loading up the Shiva.


A direct drive vehicle for TESTING CONTROLLERS? Are you nuts?!  

That said, we did consider building a vehicle/test rig specifically for Shiva, but concluded that we probably wouldn't sell enough of them to justify the expense. I mean, it would probably take 3 or 4 WarP-11HV motors in parallel in something like an F-350 dually chassis to come close to maxing out a Shiva if only for a brief second or two, and no way would a lead-acid pack be practical - we're talking 32-34 12V and 200-250Ah batteries!?! That's going to be, what? 4500# and $10-12kworth of battery pack right there, plus the $10-12k for the motors, and lord only knows how much for the custom transmission adapter and, of course, the labor to convert the vehicle (you guys might be able to value your time at nothing when doing a conversion, but we can't).

Of course, if people were willing to pay, say, $20k for each Shiva and we still could sell at least 10 per year then building a test rig wouldn't be such a boondoggle... Something tells me that the supply and demand curve would radically tilt out of our favor if we jacked up the price that much, however...


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

My truck is pretty heavy and with about 600 lbs of battery in the back, I don't think I will have a problem hitting the peak CURRENT that is, albeit maybe only briefly. Certainly not with more than half the voltage this thing will take. That said, this little A123 pack (this is one of two) will help me get my current up. Most I have fed it so far is 1800 amps. It feels good. . . , but 2500 - 3000 is gonna feel a lot better.  If I don't break something. lol My Lenco/GV should be good for 2500 lb-ft, drive shaft with 1350 joints should hold. 8.8 may be ok, but the 28 spline axles may not like it too much. John Metric suggested not getting too much tire yet. . . as they will work as my "fuse", instead of snapping an axle. 
Anyways, check out this little fire-cracker box.


----------



## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

Neat! I know how much planning and labour goes into packing those cylindrical cells. I'm now on mark III of mine and still not satisfied


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Haha, rubber fuses, nice


----------



## Yukon_Shane (Jul 15, 2010)

Those boxes are awesome.

I wish someone would put together a kit for these cylindrical cells that looked half as good as what you've done.

Good job


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Are those exterior terminals custom, or where did you get them?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yukon_Shane said:


> Those boxes are awesome.
> 
> I wish someone would put together a kit for these cylindrical cells that looked half as good as what you've done.
> 
> Good job


Thanks Shane. As you can see, I allowed for 25% increase in capacity. I also have a thermostatically controlled fan. Unfortunately, these cells are just not available. . . at least not with screw studs. I actually had a chance, and almost bought, 5,000 of them.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Are those exterior terminals custom, or where did you get them?


haa ha!, u like those eh Ziggy?? Check out the world of welding equipment. There is so much that fits the electric vehicle world. I have praised the benefits of cam lock connectors like Tweeco, shunts from larger DC welders, gauges, terminals, like these, heat sinks, and even some heavy electronics like IGBT's ( I don't use these lol). . . Switches also, like polarity or A/B gun selectors.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

installed the composite rear springs. Huge difference in weight. I didn't expect that much. Of course the stack I took out had the extra leaf and can definitely handle a heavier load. Total weight drop = 70 lbs

Seems I have some clearance issues with the drive shaft now. Needs a little more clearance.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok, I should report some of the carnage. Broken drive shaft. Banged up two battery boxes and at least one cell.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

AFter looking and thinking. . . I decided to order a custom shaft, heavier wall and beefier ends.


----------



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

DIYguy said:


> Ok, I should report some of the carnage. Broken drive shaft. Banged up two battery boxes and at least one cell.


Condolences. 

And maybe add some protection for the battery boxes against the drive shaft.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

A simple drive shaft loop could be a wonderful thing. Jegs and Summit both have inexpensive items.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> A simple drive shaft loop could be a wonderful thing. Jegs and Summit both have inexpensive items.


Ya. . . it's that old hindsight thing...lol


----------



## ElectriCar (Jun 15, 2008)

Congrats! Never heard of someone destroying a drive shaft.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

ElectriCar said:


> Congrats! Never heard of someone destroying a drive shaft.


HAHAHA! Luv it.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Decided to do some disection on the damaged CALB cell. It's not the first one ever opened up.... but hopefully someone enjoys the pics....

I was surprised by the number of individual foils. There are two "packs", each with about 45 anode/45 cathode foils. Each foil is separated by a "zigzag" plastic separator. 

You can see the spring loaded pressure relief valve and the termination method.


----------



## John Metric (Feb 26, 2009)

DIYguy said:


> Decided to do some disection on the damaged CALB cell. It's not the first one ever opened up.... but hopefully someone enjoys the pics....
> QUOTE]
> 
> Nice, batteries and ring gears. Smells like speed.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Cool pics, thanks!


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

John Metric said:


> DIYguy said:
> 
> 
> > Decided to do some disection on the damaged CALB cell. It's not the first one ever opened up.... but hopefully someone enjoys the pics....
> ...


----------



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

So, is the "Drive shaft Terminator" back on the road yet ?


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

TEV said:


> So, is the "Drive shaft Terminator" back on the road yet ?


Hey TEV. No actually, I have hardly touched it. I have a brand new custom built drive shaft now and two replacement cells on the way. So, when they get here, I'll put it back together. 
Been working on my electric motorcycle project though. 
Started a new job recently and have had almost no time !


----------



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

DIYguy said:


> Hey TEV. No actually, I have hardly touched it. I have a brand new custom built drive shaft now and two replacement cells on the way. So, when they get here, I'll put it back together.
> Been working on my electric motorcycle project though.
> Started a new job recently and have had almost no time !


It's just life 

I start driving my Ranger, not finished yet, but it is drivable. I am so happy .

Hope you get yours back on the road sooner.


----------



## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

TEV said:


> I start driving my Ranger, not finished yet, but it is drivable. I am so happy .


Sometimes good is the enemy of great. I've got at least 10 more projects to do on the bug but as long as it's on the road my wife has better things for me to do.


----------



## TEV (Nov 25, 2011)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Sometimes good is the enemy of great. I've got at least 10 more projects to do on the bug but as long as it's on the road my wife has better things for me to do.


No such problems here, my wife is a sweet, it's just to cold, right now we have 17F. Waiting for better , like 32F  . (My passion it's keeping my worm only above 32F, LOL)


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Any updates? How is she running? Btw, I'd love to see your 2 cents in this thread:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/running-13-inch-dc-motori-please-92110.html


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

rochesterricer said:


> Any updates? How is she running? Btw, I'd love to see your 2 cents in this thread:
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/running-13-inch-dc-motori-please-92110.html


Hey guys. Ya, been lying low. Truck is mobile. . . here's a shot after picking up the tree a little while ago.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

rochesterricer said:


> Any updates? How is she running? Btw, I'd love to see your 2 cents in this thread:
> 
> http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/running-13-inch-dc-motori-please-92110.html



End of summer (was getting ready to go the the local track) I torched the motor and damaged the com. I was playing with field weakening . . and got carried away. My own fault. I had a new set of monster Helwigs waiting in my toolbox so, I decided to pull the armature, rebuild (beef up) the Brush gear, and see if I could get the com replaced with a steel core unit. I had also thrown some balance putty, so, it was due. After an exhaustive search, I sent it to THE place, Warfield. They replaced the com with a steel/mica one. You can see an adjustable "nut" on the end. This can be tightened on each rebuild and the com bars are actually held tight on a dovetail inside. The put as much fiberglass banding as they could and used some new type of balance putty. This armature should be good for a higher rpm. . Here are some before and after shots.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

check out the brush comparison, new and old. . . and the armature rebuild.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

I also had the wire harness feeding the brushes doubled up in number of conductors. Silver soldered some huge copper terminals also. Those are 1/4" bolts holding the leads and brush shunts on.


----------



## rochesterricer (Jan 5, 2011)

Good stuff, thanks. So whats the max motor amps you are sending to that bad boy from the Shiva?

Edit: just saw your answer in the other thread, 3,000 amps.


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Awesomeness. Seems as if balance putty is a weakness, I see way too many people having issues with it. I wonder if it's stuff that worked fine for forklifts but it's not up to the higher stress of EV use?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

rochesterricer said:


> Good stuff, thanks...


Agreed. Better than a blockbuster movie!


----------



## Dave Koller (Nov 15, 2008)

Happy New Year !!!!


----------



## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Dave Koller said:


> Happy New Year !!!!


You too. Glad to see you're still around.


----------



## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Guys, good to hear from you. Ya, I know the Warp motors are coming with a new type of putty now so... probably the same stuff. They put a lot of banding on and I asked them to stuff as much as possible under this to keep it in place. I often wondered if the heat (expansion) and cool (contraction) cycles don't contribute to it coming loose. They just pack it in between the windings. I think you're right JRP, as the higher rotation speeds we push to doesn't help.


----------

