# Tesla Alternatives



## vikingev (12 mo ago)

Hi

I'm currently embarking on an EV conversion and am after some advice on motor options. The car is RWD with a V8 producing 400hp and 460nm torque with the performance of 0-60 in 5.5 seconds(ish). I'd like to retain (or improve) the performance as much as possible.

On doing some research it seems that dropping in a Tesla drivetrain in the rear is the go-to option when after this type of performance. I'm just wondering if there are any alternatives from any other platforms that people are using which may be worth considering..

Thanks in advance..


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

It's the go to option until you get into the details that don't make it a go to option at all. 

Teslas have very wide tracks and will barely get on a car trailer. The drive unit rarely fits between frame rails. Take a look at the 1962 Corvette thread that's pretty active to see what a PITA it is. The performance Tesla cars weigh close to 3 tons...

Keeping your car make and model, as well as performance goals (that include weight & handling) a mystery won't get you any decent recommendations.


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## D&VsEVJeep (Dec 9, 2021)

As you mentioned, the Tesla LDU is a very popular choice. AEM has a great demo car (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsPyhjHnDgUY7X5_NIwzZOA) with it in a Mustang (the Testang) and it was built and sold to AEM by a guy on this forum...his name escapes me but he has several Youtube videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/Roadstercycle). AEM offers a controller for the LDU (it was a joint development with Cascadia Motion) and there are other options also from 057 (Tesla Drive Units | Products | 057 Technology) and Zero EV (https://electricporsche911.com/) in the UK.

There are also more and more conversions using the Model 3 or Model Y RDU but maybe this doesn't give you the performance you are looking for.

Another recent option is the Mustang Mach-E option (ELUMINATOR MACH E ELECTRIC MOTOR). You would need a matching inverter from Cascadia Motion or someone but it looks like a nice package and it got a LOT of attention at SEMA. I also heard that GM and Stellantis/Chrysler will have "crate e-axle" option soon too.

Exciting times!


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## D&VsEVJeep (Dec 9, 2021)

You can also use a couple of these.... Koenigsegg Quark e-motor puts maxi power in a mini package


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## vikingev (12 mo ago)

Thanks for the comments guys.. I have seen the Koenigsegg option which is actually what prompted the question. Love the Tesla stuff but also would like to see what options there are for new solutions rather than used Telsa motors etc.

It's a shame Elon hasn't thought to tap into the conversation market with a "crate" opinion as the demand is obviously there especially given that I'm sure I read somewhere, that he never wanted Tesla to actually become a car manufacturer but rather an OEM supplier but the industry didn't take them seriously - how wrong they were!.. and now they're too busy building cars etc.

I will keep an eye out for the Mach-E crate but again I'm sure I read somewhere that the initial allocation sold out very quickly.

Koenigsegg - OMG yes please but suspect as Tesla they won't supply to converters which again is such a shame as there is obviously a demand for it.

I suspect they don't want the hassle of dealing with converters but they should look at distributing to some of the bigger converters etc who can then sell the units on with support if needed.

There is Swindon Powertrain in the UK which have a range of options but nothing really suited to performance cars. https://webshop.swindonpowertrain.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=261

I definitely think there's a market for somebody to supply a range of new powertrain options to small professional and hobby converters..


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

vikingev said:


> Thanks for the comments guys.. I have seen the Koenigsegg option which is actually what prompted the question. Love the Tesla stuff but also would like to see what options there are for new solutions rather than used Telsa motors etc.
> 
> It's a shame Elon hasn't thought to tap into the conversation market with a "crate" opinion as the demand is obviously there especially given that I'm sure I read somewhere, that he never wanted Tesla to actually become a car manufacturer but rather an OEM supplier but the industry didn't take them seriously - how wrong they were!.. and now they're too busy building cars etc.


Saint Elon has always been about the money, nothing more, imo. A bullshitter. He'd rather sell you 2x the battery you need vs incorporating V2G in the cars. He'd rather accelerate writing your car off so you buy a new one than providing unrestricted parts for reasonable money to restore it. And, your warranty is allegedly void if you should happen to restore a car with recycled (salvage) pieces, which is the green way to fix a bent car vs mining bauxite and rolling and stamping a new panel. "Elon hasn't thought..." 😂

And, Mr Green Transportation plans to launch 3 giant rockets a day that burn fossil fuels vs clean hydrogen to pollute the skies with an Internet monopoly, weaving a Mars fantasy for the rubes to rally around his cash pile.

"Either buy my new cars or get lost" seems to have always been Tesla's policy. No VIN number and record of ownership and you can't even buy a $3 wheel nut from Tesla, 3 years ago, anyway. The coolant was a secret sauce only Tesla could put in your car back then as well. They'll be forced to change now that they aren't the only game in town.

GM is betting the Tesla will fail to transition away from its arrogance and has called them on self-driving (which is for this young generation of kids who wait until their 20's to drive while we drove illegally underage because we like cars and to drive). $TSLA started wavering when the Mach-E started shipping...

So, yeah. The BIG-3's crate motors will be welcome. Ford has zero documentation and support (I called two days ago), so GM might as well release on the same footing. Ford's been clearly inundated with support requests on batteries, etc - the guy on the help line's first defensive "answer" was no batteries, controllers, etc.

This is going to be an interesting rollout, these "crate" motors. At least D&VsEVJeep appear to have some internal contacts at a large Detroit automaker that may have a crate motor release, which could help us here.


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

D&VsEVJeep said:


> You can also use a couple of these.... Koenigsegg Quark e-motor puts maxi power in a mini package


I noticed that, too. Very typical Koenigsegg stuff...

Koenigsegg used YASA motors (one P750 per rear wheel plus one P400 as a generator) in their Regera hybrid. YASA builds only axial-flux motors in those two sizes (P400 and P750). The new motor from Koenigsegg is between the P400 and P750 in torque and power, but smaller than either in diameter.

This and other press articles (such as this one: Koenigsegg's Tiny Electric Motor Makes 335 HP and 443 LB-FT of Torque) describe the two-motor drive unit using the Quark motor, which they're calling "Terrier". Each motor drives a planetary reduction drive, and the two motors are mounted back-to-back around a central housing which presumably has lubrication oil pump and cooler.

The claimed power of the Quark motor and Terrier drive unit is ridiculous for most vehicles, although needed for vehicles in Koenigsegg's market. A more reasonable equivalent drive unit could be assembled from two YASA P400R motors and two gearboxes, if one could find suitable compact gearboxes (which will just have a single simple planetary gear set each).


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## lj516 (Mar 11, 2020)

If performance is your ultimate goal then using a big DC motor is still king. One of the most refined packages is the Lexus/toyota 250kw(transaxle) RX400h/highlander, or 253kw(2 speed transmission)GS450H or on Car-part are both under $500 to your door. Evbmw.com's board is full of features and is being developed on the opensource platform openinverter.org as well as a few on this forum as well! You can't beat toyota's production numbers and subsequent incredibly low failure rate of these high output EV systems.
Think about spare parts in the future and how accessible new pads, suspension components, ect will be in your area, then consider if you can even afford the parts.

I've pulled apart about a dozen toyota/lexus transaxles and their design and improvement methodology is very impressive


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

What makes you think anyone would pour in several hundred hours of blood and sweat on an EV conversion only to use junk with 220,000 miles on it or with a hole in the case:


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## lj516 (Mar 11, 2020)

remy_martian said:


> What makes you think anyone would pour in several hundred hours of blood and sweat on an EV conversion only to use junk with 220,000 miles on it or with a hole in the case:


Yup fixed the link thanks asshole.


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## remy_martian (Feb 4, 2019)

Anytime


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## vikingev (12 mo ago)

Can we keep this on topic please guys.. no shilling used kit and keep it civil please!.. I want this thread to be informative of drivetrain options..



lj516 said:


> Yup fixed the link thanks asshole.


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

vikingev said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm currently embarking on an EV conversion and am after some advice on motor options. The car is RWD with a V8 producing 400hp and 460nm torque with the performance of 0-60 in 5.5 seconds(ish). I'd like to retain (or improve) the performance as much as possible.
> 
> Thanks in advance..


You've got my attention. What year, make, & model vehicle are you converting?


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## vikingev (12 mo ago)

GrayRaceCat said:


> You've got my attention. What year, make, & model vehicle are you converting?


Long story short, I've been offered a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte V complete but without the engine. That's being used for a resto-mod/engine swap project the guy is doing. Don't want to see the rest of the car going to waste so thought it would make a good ev project.

Realistic on options and would be happy with a Tesla solution but interested to know what's possible... Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...


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## GrayRaceCat (Jul 13, 2021)

vikingev said:


> Long story short, I've been offered a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte V complete but without the engine. That's being used for a resto-mod/engine swap project the guy is doing. Don't want to see the rest of the car going to waste so thought it would make a good ev project.
> 
> Realistic on options and would be happy with a Tesla solution but interested to know what's possible... Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...


A worthy candidate for conversion.


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## lj516 (Mar 11, 2020)

vikingev said:


> Can we keep this on topic please guys.. no shilling used kit and keep it civil please!.. I want this thread to be informative of drivetrain options..


 NEW TOYOTA TRANSAXLES.


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## vikingev (12 mo ago)

lj516 said:


> NEW TOYOTA TRANSAXLES.


Thanks for that.. any motor recommendations / do you know of any projects that have gone down this route?..


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