# LED Headlights & Electric?



## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

My headlights, marker and license plate, and front and rear running lights consume a total of about 100 W, all of them being original incandescent bulbs. When I shut them off of course they draw nothing. Compare that to a 1000-2500 W electric cabin heater, or my car's average demand of ~ 12,000 W, and you'll see that switching to LED is more of an aesthetic or symbolic than an environmental or range boosting choice. And when I last looked, a set of LED replacements for sealed beam headlights was going to set me back at least a couple hundred dollars. The car has lots of things that it could benefit from spending another couple hundred dollars on, so the LED headlights can wait!

Just be careful, as even worse than in the residential lighting market, the automotive lighting "market" is full of LED replacement bulbs that are anything but true replacements. I have a few cheap ones which have an apparent brightness a small fraction of the original bulbs they intend to replace.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

LED headlights are junk as far as light output and distribution goes. The technology is not really there yet.
If you want to save a bit of power (assuming your car uses standard 50-60W headlight bulbs), you are better off buying a universal 35W HID kit.
As for replacing incandescent bulbs with LED's, make sure to use SMD LED's that are bright enough.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

I will half agree with Molten
LED Headlights are far too expensive!

But the other lights are cheap as chips (from the right sources)
So all of the other lights on my car are LED
Cheap
Use nice thin wires
No bulbs to fail
Sealed against the weather
My rear lights are for a trailer, 
my front indicators are for a motorbike cost about $7


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## dragonsgate (May 19, 2012)

electriceddy said:


> Was wondering if anyone has experience of running LED headlights? I have read that these are considerably more efficient than standard bulbs in terms of power/fuel usage - but I'm not sure if that is definitely the case and don't want to be piling on too much load if I can help it.
> 
> I like the aesthetic, but is it a good idea to upgrade with my electric car or should I choose an alternative? ANy help appreciated!


The head lights are still a bit pricy so I am putting off getting them but I am happy with the results from switching the rest of my car to LED’s.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I agree with the others here, I haven't touched the headlights and brights, but all the other lights are now LED. Mainly for the modern look in my case.


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## bigmouse (Sep 28, 2008)

LED headlights as used by the OEMs are of a completely different construction than traditional Halogen/HID lighting. LEDs are extremely directional, making them incompatible with headlight housings designed to focus light that is emitted in all directions from a glowing filament or an arc in to a beam.

Aftermarket LED replacements, even the really expensive ones, even if they're bright enough, don't work with the reflectors properly to make a well defined beam. You'll end up spraying light everywhere rather than having an effective (and legal) beam pattern.

OEMs have been going for LED headlights for a number of reasons:
Energy Efficiency (marginal compared to other 12V loads as Motlenmetal pointed out)
Adaptive beam pattern without moving parts
Compact (leaving more room on the front of the car for other components, or styling that was previously impossible)

I agree that an HID kit is the better option for the EV conversion, assuming that you have projector housings. If your headlights are reflector housings, then stick with the halogens.


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## electriceddy (Apr 28, 2016)

bigmouse said:


> LED headlights as used by the OEMs are of a completely different construction than traditional Halogen/HID lighting. LEDs are extremely directional, making them incompatible with headlight housings designed to focus light that is emitted in all directions from a glowing filament or an arc in to a beam.
> 
> Aftermarket LED replacements, even the really expensive ones, even if they're bright enough, don't work with the reflectors properly to make a well defined beam. You'll end up spraying light everywhere rather than having an effective (and legal) beam pattern.
> 
> ...


So do you think maybe something like these LED lamps would be a good shout? Or maybe an equivalent kit for HIDs would be best?


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

I was thinking about trying to make my own LED headlights for my Opel. Not really because it's a sensible thing to do, but because it might be an interesting project. It would cost about $50 in parts per headlight, and I would have ten or so separate chips per headlight, and try to come up with a geometry that works.

If I could pull it off, I could make back a lot of the cost by being able to use a smaller DCDC. If it didn't work, I would use the LEDs for something else.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Ive been running the 2nd gen Trucklite 7" DOT replacement LED assemblies in my RX-7 for over 3 years now and they are far better than the HID's on my BMW They are brighter and have a more even pattern. They illuminate the ditches better as well.

They are too expensive and if an increase in range is what you are looking for there could be a little but it will be very little. For a short range EV you should probably just replace the original halogens and save the money. Maybe buy a couple of extra cells with the savings.


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## Jayls5 (Apr 1, 2012)

I used MT-G2 emitters made by Cree on my Sandrail. They're fan cooled. It's brighter than any halogen and rivals HID's.


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## Matej (Dec 4, 2015)

dougingraham said:


> Ive been running the 2nd gen Trucklite 7" DOT replacement LED assemblies in my RX-7 for over 3 years now and they are far better than the HID's on my BMW They are brighter and have a more even pattern. They illuminate the ditches better as well.


Despite being DOT-stamped, they give off horrible glare from when I tried them, making them really unpleasant to oncoming drivers. They also have a bunch of hot/cold spots, and the build quality was disappointing when I handled them.
(Not to mention I find them horribly ugly, but that is purely a matter of personal taste.  Luckily cars such as the RX-7 or my old 240SX have pop-up headlights, so I did not have to see them during the day.)

The fact is, even on the high-end luxury cars that come with LED headlights, they are not really up to par with their HID and halogen counterparts yet, as the technology is still in its infancy.
So it will be many a day before real quality LED headlamp technology trickles down to aftermarket replacement parts at affordable prices.

This of course is speaking from a purely public road-going perspective. If you are just using them for off-road stuff, then of course go wild.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Matej

Optics is an old science - and is not difficult
I find it very very hard to believe that modern DOT stamped headlamps if LED or not could have the flaws you say

I certainly have not noticed modern cars having worse beam patterns of more glare than older cars

Aftermarket bulbs for existing reflectors - yes those can get it all wrong

But complete headlamps for new cars? -


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Our old sealed beam standards are no where near state of the art. I don't think any new cars use sealed beam headlights. The Trucklite DOT labeled LED replacement headlights are somewhat annoying to other drivers with stray light. I don't doubt they meet the sealed beam standards for the sizes they replace, but they are brighter and so more annoying. New car headlights are so much better.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Evfun

Sealed beam headlights were a great idea way back when - the old headlamps used to corrode terribly
But the French! killed them - they put in a requirement for all cars to carry a spare headlamp bulb
Again reasonable back then when bulbs kept blowing 
But that effectively killed the sealed beam headlamp 

Since then the manufacturers have learned to make bulbs that don't blow as often and reflectors that don't corrode


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Duncan said:


> .......the manufacturers have learned to make bulbs that don't blow as often.........


 . .? I wish someone had told the Aussie bulb/car makers !
I have never known so many cars with blown headlamp and stop lamp bulbs, as i see in Australia !
...( likewise shortlived starter batteries ?)


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

While people have their attention here: has anybody got a line on a decently bright brake light/tail light dual bulb? The ones I've come across are all crap- too dim- and with a tiny car you want brake lights that scream STOP!!!


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

If it will fit this will be plenty bright.

675 lumen 1157 compatible LED bulb

If that wont fit then try this one.

420 lumen 1157 compatible LED bulb

I use the above in my BMW X5. Quite a bit brighter than the original bulbs.

And in my RX-7 I used a version that they appear to have dropped. It had a few less lumens than the one above but is still quite a bit brighter than the original.

And the CAN compatible bulbs work just fine in pre-CAN vehicles.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Thanks Doug: will buy some of those and have them shipped to my hotel room the next time I'm in the US.


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## dougingraham (Jul 26, 2011)

Matej said:


> Despite being DOT-stamped, they give off horrible glare from when I tried them, making them really unpleasant to oncoming drivers. They also have a bunch of hot/cold spots, and the build quality was disappointing when I handled them.
> (Not to mention I find them horribly ugly, but that is purely a matter of personal taste.  Luckily cars such as the RX-7 or my old 240SX have pop-up headlights, so I did not have to see them during the day.)


The earlier Trucklites had this problem. The second generation ones utilize an LED in one half for the low beams and an LED in the other half for high beams. Both are turned on for high beams. The only negative comment I have heard from people about these is that there is a V shaped hot spot which is used for alignment of the bulbs. When the low beam setting is selected there is a sharp horizontal cutoff above which it is dark. It is easy to adjust these so oncoming cars are in the shadow of the cutoff. The negatives about V shaped hot spot are that it draws your eyes and when adjusted properly this spot is on the ground about 60 to 80 feet in front of the car. I no longer notice it.

I have attached a photo of the newly installed bulb from December of 2012 so you can see what it looks like. I have not kept up in this area but I would expect that there have been many changes in the last 3 and a half years.


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## Carnut1100 (Jan 13, 2015)

I had OEM LED headlights in the imiev (2010 Aus market ones had these) and loved them. Best headlights of any car I've owned. 
The drop in LED conversions that replace your halogen bulb are rubbish just like the plug and play HID kits. 
If you have sealed beams you can get the complete replacement units but if you have more modern lights you'll need a lot of work to retrofit them. 
Www.hidplanet.com is a good resource for learning what's needed to do this properly. They focus mainly on HID but LED is getting more popular. 
For drop in round or square units the new Trucklite are good. Nice beam pattern and plenty of light as well as not looking outlandish. Everybody I've talked to with them has been happy and I'll be getting some for the Hilux work vehicle when i have the cash spare. 
JW Speaker are even better both in build quality and light output as well as beam pattern, but are expensive and look weird. 
LED is here to stay. 

As for range, they won't make a lot of difference but if like me you drive with low beam in at all times it may be worth doing. The LEDs on the imiev seemed to have no effect on range at all even when run at all times.


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

LED's outperform any light type out there. They are pricey but are 3 to 4 times more efficient than incandescent and twice that of Halogen. With head light and tail lights you are looking at 200 to 300 watts using standard lighting with lower performance. With LED that drops to 50 to 75 watts with higher lumen output.

Only question is can you afford it.


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## Electric Avenue (Jul 11, 2016)

As far as consuming power, headlights are kind of a non-issue. Aren't their fuses 5 amp?

I wouldn't use LED for the simple fact that they can be too distracting to other drivers.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Electric Avenue said:


> I wouldn't use LED for the simple fact that they can be too distracting to other drivers.


The _simple fact_ that light from an LED is somehow different from light from a bulb???


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Electric Avenue said:


> As far as consuming power, headlights are kind of a non-issue. Aren't their fuses 5 amp?
> 
> I wouldn't use LED for the simple fact that they can be too distracting to other drivers.


You have a lot to learn.

A single low bean headlight is 55 and 65 watts and you can have up to 4 lights or 220 to 265 watts. On a 12 volt system would require a 30 amp fuse.

That is not even counting turn signals, side, parking, and brake lighting. Replace then all with LED's and you are less than 50 watts for all of them turned on. Then you can use a single 5 amp fuse for all the lights. 

CRI and beam angles of LED are superior to any incandescent.


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## mons2b (Nov 17, 2015)

Sunking said:


> You have a lot to learn.
> 
> A single low bean headlight is 55 and 65 watts and you can have up to 4 lights or 220 to 265 watts. On a 12 volt system would require a 30 amp fuse.
> 
> ...


Your reply to that guy is kinda condescending and not needed in this friendly forum.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Come on John
The guy Sunking is being "condescending" to had just said

_I wouldn't use LED for the simple fact that they can be too distracting to other drivers.

_So the lights from LED's is somehow different???


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## mons2b (Nov 17, 2015)

Duncan said:


> Come on John
> The guy Sunking is being "condescending" to had just said
> 
> _I wouldn't use LED for the simple fact that they can be too distracting to other drivers.
> ...


Apart from saving voltage I wouldnt think it was better than Xenon. Xenon bulbs for example are also durable. The latest thing isnt led now. Its these laser lights that some companies like BMW are pioneering. 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/laser-powered-headlight.htm


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Couldn't find anything about why LEDs might be distracting to other drivers. However, Xenon headlamps are noted to have a lot of glare that could pose a problem:

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/battle-of-the-headlights-halogen-vs-xenon-vs-led-26530.html


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