# Honda Del Sol Suggestions?



## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Hey Guyz
I picked up this 93 Honda Del Sol today for $1200. This will be my second
electric conversion. My last being my 77 Beetle Convertible. This vehicle's body and interior are in good condition with only a small dent in the drivers side fender and no rot anywhere. The car has 223,000 miles (very tired engine) and my first move will be to pull the 5 speed manual transmission and have it rebuilt. The front end was entirely rebuilt in the past year including new axles and wheel bearings. The brakes are front disc and rear drums and were rebuilt in the past two years. The previous owner, my nephew, said they have less than 10,000 miles on them. He put a lot of money into the car in the past year including new tires. The curb weight of the car is approx 2300 lbs. - no door badge so don't know GRVW.
My plan is to build the car to sell it as I believe it's a great candidate for a commuter car. I'm wondering what your suggestions for the build might be?
Here are my parameters:
$8,000.00 budget (no lithium here) plus what I can gain from the sale of parts. (engine, gas tank, junk value of the CAT etc.)
I've included some pictures of the trunk...lottsa room but spare tire in the well. I may be able to fit 11 batteries back there (but what to do with that spare?) The engine compartment looks like it may take 4 - 5 batteries and a healthier 12 volt. There are some Del Sol's on evalbum and I have looked at them.
The folding frame in the trunk is for the Targa Top. I may be able to keep it as the trunk appears deep enough to handle both batteries and top storage. The top fits on top of the frame. Also the car has power brakes but manual steering.
So pretend it was your car and what you are shooting for here is RANGE.
What would you do? What would you buy?
BTW - I do all my own work including welding. The trans? OK I'll send that one out and I'm not including it in the budget. So you have 8 grand to spend.


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

Why no lithium? 

You can do it for your budget.

10kwh of lifepo for about $3500... you should have plenty left. Might can do like 14kwh for about $5000 if you really want to push your budget.

If not $3500 of lithium should get you 60-70 miles. Add a basic 96-106v controller/motor and you should be good.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

I would cram as many large capacity 6v batts in the car as it can handle (roughly 3000lbs gvwr). Curtis 1231C for reliability and ease, along with a ADC 9" motor. You could get away with a 1221C and a 8" motor in a car that size, but you might be underimpressed with acceleration - not top speed, but getting up to it. Ok, you know all this...

Think you can fit 16 6volts?? I would think a 96 volt system in a car that small would give you highway speeds when needed, and maximum range for your budget (granted, I don't know much about lithium, but I''ve yet to see them actually affordable for a 8k conversion). 

by affordable, I mean actually purchased, actually received, actually used (with a proven track record)!


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Patricio
I saw a Del Sol on evalbum with 24 -6 volt Nicads. I have no idea where he put them all as they appear to be standard deep cycle size and the weight? OMG! I'm going to email him and ask for the arrangement.

Technologic
OK you got my attention. 14kwh for $5,000 - Then $10,000 would buy 28kwh? What am I missing here?
What's the downside? What kind of speed could I expect with 10kwh of Lithium?


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> Patricio
> I saw a Del Sol on evalbum with 24 -6 volt Nicads. I have no idea where he put them all as they appear to be standard deep cycle size and the weight? OMG! I'm going to email him and ask for the arrangement.
> 
> Technologic
> ...


Well speed wise you should get identical specs that you'd see in the same voltage of lead-acid. Probably gain a bit of low end amperage draw. The range benefits for the same capacity will be about 2-3 times higher than the same with Lead-acid for a few reasons. 
Firstly LiFePO's can be drained to a DOD of 0% without worrying about damaging their lifecycle (though most of the time it's good to take them to only 10%). Secondly the 500-600 lbs of less weight = greater handling, range, and city driving range especially. Likewise because of the very low internal resistance of the batteries there is no peutkart (sp?) effect from the batteries discharging.

There is no downside outside of the price, and you'd see about 200k miles out of that pack I'd imagine. The prices are much lower now across all sources... if you follow my thread in the battery forum I'm currently waiting on samples of Lifepo's at 35 cents/watt-hour for 3.2vx90ah cells.

Just a suggestion though. Selling a lithium car would be far easier if you decide to, not to mention you might be able to get the curb weight to around 2000lbs with a lithium pack.

30 batteries = 96vx90ah = close to 9kwh... I was told this is $2900 prewired and ready to go (cheaper if more than 100 pcs of the 3.2vx90ah batteries are ordered). Still waiting for verification, but in general prices around 40 cents/watt-hour are available from a few places now.

It's hard to group data from lithium users because it takes so many years for people to really get past the "cliffs" as far as cycle life is concerned. There's people with 30-40k miles on TS packs, but very few with such raw data. Lab settings are almost necessary for every new battery manufacturer.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks Technologic
I'll be watching your test thread with great interest.


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Technologic
Any idea what those 90ah batteries weigh?

Just got home from having the car weighed on a certified scale at the scrap yard. Car weighed 2260 lbs with no one in it. A good starting point I think.
I'll have it weighed again at the same scale when it is completed.


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## Technologic (Jul 20, 2008)

Voltswagen said:


> Technologic
> Any idea what those 90ah batteries weigh?
> 
> Just got home from having the car weighed on a certified scale at the scrap yard. Car weighed 2260 lbs with no one in it. A good starting point I think.
> I'll have it weighed again at the same scale when it is completed.


There's the spec sheet for each 3.2vx90AH cell.

and that's very light ... good car choice!


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## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Heres a thought:
These Lithiums which Technologic will test weigh 6.6 lbs each. (3kg)
Lets do a weight comparison -
My Beetle is a 120 volt system 15 - 8 volt batteries weighing 63 lbs each.
Total battery weight is 945 lbs

If I were to purchase 60 of these Lithiums and create 30 - 2 parallel battery strings the volatge would be 96v with 180 ah. (quite healthy)
The weight would only be 60 x 6.6 = 396 lbs. 
So, though I lose 24 volts in power, I also lose 549 lbs in weight.
I think the Beetle would have the same acceleration at 96 volts as it does at 120 volts because of the weight loss.
Am I correct or am I fooling myself?
If these batteries test well and are priced as quoted I may not only use them in the Honda but I might also replace my LA in the Beetle.
Roy


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