# elithoin bms ?



## ampedup (Jun 10, 2010)

i have the lithiumate bms and every now and then the interlock light comes on and the boards are shut down. does anyone know why it does this and how to reset it?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2010)

Talk to the maker of the BMS. It is up to him to provide a fix or answer. It is after all their product. Why ask us?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Actually its up to the reseller. Elithion provides support for direct customers.


Have you checked all wiring to make sure nothing is loose? If an interlock briefly disconnects, it will fault.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2010)

frodus said:


> Actually its up to the reseller. Elithion provides support for direct customers.
> 
> 
> Have you checked all wiring to make sure nothing is loose? If an interlock briefly disconnects, it will fault.


Well if its a technical issue it is up to the manufacturer but the reseller should then get the information as the manufacturer has an obligation. If they don't deal with it then it's BS. So you see, in the end it is up to the manufacturer. But if you buy from a vendor then the vendor must help rectify the issue with the manufacturer then the buyer. Any updates or returns for faulty products should be replaced at the manufacturers cost. 

Go to the place you purchased them from. If they won't help don't do business with them and report them to the list. But only if they won't help. 

Pete


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Unfortunately that is not really how things are set up in this case. This is pretty much how some of the larger manufacturers operate. A lot of times they will refer you to the distributor, who has been trained and is going to be the easiest route, as they've probably already dealt with it.

From Davide's website. 

http://liionbms.com/php/tech_support.php

He does have a forum for users to help each other, and if someone bought from EVComponents before they went away, we're offering free tech support. The rest of the support is supposed to go through the vendors, or paid help from me.


The reasoning?

Well, lets say you have 10 vendors. Lets say those vendors have 10 customers each. Now a lot of these people are going to have a few questions, lets say 50%. Now, Davide would have to answer all 50 people. Instead, he's set it up to help the vendor directly, which teaches the vendor the most common issues. Each time the vendor learns from the manufacturer, they are now getting training and can more easily help the end user. Basically, its an information network. All of the vendors go to davide if they cannot answer the question, but it saves him from answering the simple questions, so he can work on developing new products.

Its not that Elithion is refusing help, its that we want you to get the help through the vendor, so we can create a solid dealer network with a lot of experience with the products.


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## ampedup (Jun 10, 2010)

thank you for feed back. the reason im asking anyone out there is because this whole project is a pain since day one. everytime i try to get a hold of any help or parts seems to be like pulling teeth.i have more less did all the figuring out on my own with a little guidence on the way. i have checked all the wires on the bms and it only seems to do it only some times.i fugured someone might have had the same probles before.i will call elithion and pay the 50 hr instead of waiting around for a call back from the distrubter though.so i will keep trying to figure something.lol thank you though it is true that the place i bought it from you would think would help.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Have you tried the Elithion forum?

http://lithiumate.elithion.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

ampedup said:


> though it is true that the place i bought it from you would think would help.


So who did you buy it from?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2010)

So the manufacturer is helping but indirectly. Interesting way to deal with issues. Seems like the BMS (BS) is more a beta and the buyers are testing. Not something I'd want to have keeping watch over my lithium batteries. Now I wonder how many more BMS (BS) systems there are out there in the same category. Wonder how many will have BM's. 

Pete


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## JohnM (Jan 12, 2010)

It's a shame you have to ask this forum for "support". That's a very expensive equipment & the manufacturer should at least have a hot line for tech support.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

ampedup said:


> thank you for feed back. the reason im asking anyone out there is because this whole project is a pain since day one. everytime i try to get a hold of any help or parts seems to be like pulling teeth.i have more less did all the figuring out on my own with a little guidence on the way. i have checked all the wires on the bms and it only seems to do it only some times.i fugured someone might have had the same probles before.i will call elithion and pay the 50 hr instead of waiting around for a call back from the distrubter though.so i will keep trying to figure something.lol thank you though it is true that the place i bought it from you would think would help.


Who did you buy it from? EVComponents? Someone else? We really need to know so I can let Davide know you're not getting the help you need. 

If its EVComponents, I'll give you up to 5 hours free (under contract from Elithion). If not, let me know. Direct with Davide is $50 every 15 minutes, with me it's $20, but I can work with you. 


Because its intermittent, it leads me to believe you have some contacts that aren't staying shut, that they're opening for some reason. What revision BMS do you have? Rev A-D? or Rev E or above?


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Elithion bms ?*



ampedup said:


> i have the lithiumate bms and every now and then the interlock light comes on and the boards are shut down. does anyone know why it does this and how to reset it?


Hello (sorry, I don't know your name),
We provide various ways of getting tech support on our products, many of them free, depending on where you bought it: http://liionbms.com/php/tech_support.php 
Please take advantage of them. Writing to this forum is not the most effective way of getting tech support.

If you bought your system from a reseller other than EV Components, please contact that reseller. If you are not happy with that reseller's support, please do let us know (directly, through our Contact page) and we'll make sure you get the support you need.

If you bought from EV Components, please have Travis help you, and we'll pay for that service. Travis is really good. (By the way, if you bought your system from EV Components this year, we never got paid for it, so not only we lost money there, we are also losing money when we pay Travis to give you free support. I hope you can appreciate that.)

(Free factory support is available, but it is reserved for direct clients, who pay an additional $ 2500 fee.)

Regardless, you can still get free factory support from our forum (I can't give you the link here, due to terms of use of this forum).

If the BMS controller is broken, regardless of whose fault it is, we may be able to repair it for free, but it must go through the reseller (or Travis, if you got it through EV Components).

One way or the other, rest assured that we'll take care of you.

Davide


PS. There are 500 installed Lithiumate systems out there; so, no, this is not a beta system.
________
FORD FALCON XR6 TURBO SPECIFICATIONS


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## ampedup (Jun 10, 2010)

thank you all for your help. i don't want to say names of where i bought it due to I'm not a brasher on people selling products.i think the bms is great and do like what it is able to do. just don't under stand why some time out of nowhere it has the inter lock light come on and then the boards don't flash or allow me to turn on the laptop for trouble shooting it will still operate the project and eventually goes away? i was hoping there was some sort of reset like the zilla has.i will get on the other lithium form and do some checking out.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Elithion bms ?*



JohnM said:


> It's a shame you have to ask this forum for "support". That's a very expensive equipment & the manufacturer should at least have a hot line for tech support.


Oh yes we do!

We give full, free support, in all forms, to all of our customers.

We also offer free tech support (through our forum) to other companies' customers, even though it's their responsibility, not ours.

And, we even pay Travis Gintz to give free tech support to people screwed by that *&%$#! you-know-who (even though we never got paid $ 12,700 for that product).

With all these options, I do not understand why people feel the need to come here to ask for support.
________
Lincoln mkr


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## ampedup (Jun 10, 2010)

well i have not had the problem agian and why im not sure. i think the bms system is one of the best out there and im very happy with it.i


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## ampedup (Jun 10, 2010)

i also did get some help from the dealer with this. i have self tough myself on 95% of this ev stuff and still learning.i think this is a very interesting project ive been doing just dont know it all


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## mcrickman (Sep 10, 2007)

*Re: Elithion bms ?*



Elithion said:


> Oh yes we do!
> 
> We give full, free support, in all forms, to all of our customers.
> 
> ...


Sure as hell didn't offer me free support. Wanted $50.00 per 15 mins for a product I just paid $2500.00 for.


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Elithion bms ?*



mcrickman said:


> Sure as hell didn't offer me free support.


As I said:
"We give full, free support, in all forms, to all of *OUR *customers." The key word there is "our".

It so happens that you are not our customer, because you chose to buy your BMS from someone else. The deal, which is made very clear from the start, is that whoever sold you the system owes you free tech support. They made the bulk of the profit on that sale, we didn't; so they owe you free tech support, we don't.

I also said: "We also offer free tech support (through our forum) to other companies' customers"; 
so, as you see, regardless, we do offer you a way to get free tech support from us, even though you are not our client.

If you prefer to get live phone support instead, we do offer that service, but for a fee (because you are not our customer). Given that you saved about $ 1200 by buying from them instead of us, the $ 50 we would charge you for live telephone tech support doesn't seem that steep; does it?

Davide
________
HOTBOX VAPORIZERS


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## mcrickman (Sep 10, 2007)

I was not ever offered tech support through your "forum" ether.
I did ask by email though a few times and all I got was $$$. Felt like I was walking the streets in Mexico. 

The way I see it is I bought your product that makes me a customer period. This run around is a bunch of crap. I'm sorry but I'm out about $2500 bucks and am not very happy customer right now. Thank god for karma.

In any case this is what others can expect from Elithion. I don't recommend them due to lack of support.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Go to the people who SOLD you the system. If they are not giving you the support you need, then we should know about it.


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## mcrickman (Sep 10, 2007)

frodus said:


> Go to the people who SOLD you the system. If they are not giving you the support you need, then we should know about it.


I did contact them first and am so tired of you guys shifting blame back and forth. I'm a guy who spent hard earned money for a product. It's not my fault, I simply wanted someone to help set up the BMS. 

I can care less what your policies are in the end its elithoin's product. They should support there product. 

So if anyone is going to buy this product for god's sake make sure you buy it direct otherwise it's a three ring circus. I have no beef with where I bought the system they explained to me where to get support before I got it and that was at elithoin's website.

I mean just look at the site it sure looks like this is where you would go for support to me.

But what do I know I'm just the sucker out $2500 bucks.

Charlie


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

We do support our product, to direct customers. We do have some companies that pay us to provide limited support to their customers, but the reseller you bought from has not requested this service. The blame is on the reseller that is not supporting you directly as you want. If you want direct support, and don't want to pay, you have one option: We offer support via the forum, you haven't registered yet. If you want cheap support, I'm here and we can discuss options, but they are not free (although they're not as expensive as direct support). Usually I can help people in about an hour or two.

The reason you get it cheaper is because the reseller is taking on the responsibility of the extra overhead required to support the product. Direct sales to Elithion get this support because they are charged that extra overhead for supporting customers. You want us to provide services that were never paid for (from you or EVX). They chose to provide the BMS at a cheaper cost and didn't pay to have direct customer support. 

You aren't out $2500, I will help you get the system running, if you use the correct portal for that information. We've offered help via the forum for free and it takes 5 minutes to register and ask the question. We try to get people to go there, because 90% of the questions are the same thing someone else has asked. We're trying to archive our answers so others can get the information they need. Its quite possible the answers are there.

Had I known you were getting the runaround from EVX, I'd have gotten more involved. I'm getting involved now that I know there has been lack of support from them.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

And an FYI to those people reading this thread, I spent a good amount of time helping Charlie when he asked for help setting up the BMS to begin with:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/help-setting-up-our-charger-bmsi-48326p2.html

So we've been very responsive.


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## mcrickman (Sep 10, 2007)

frodus said:


> We do support our product, to direct customers. We do have some companies that pay us to provide limited support to their customers, but the reseller you bought from has not requested this service. The blame is on the reseller that is not supporting you directly as you want. If you want direct support, and don't want to pay, you have one option: We offer support via the forum, you haven't registered yet. If you want cheap support, I'm here and we can discuss options, but they are not free (although they're not as expensive as direct support). Usually I can help people in about an hour or two.
> 
> The reason you get it cheaper is because the reseller is taking on the responsibility of the extra overhead required to support the product. Direct sales to Elithion get this support because they are charged that extra overhead for supporting customers. You want us to provide services that were never paid for (from you or EVX). They chose to provide the BMS at a cheaper cost and didn't pay to have direct customer support.
> 
> ...


I never felt I got the run around from EVX they were helpful and explained where to get support before I brought the system and that was your website. So you might need to talk to them about that if that's not in your contract. 

Are your saying you can get it to work with a Zilla controller because I was told by David that there would be issues with noise due to filters? He also stated the Zillas never been used with the BMS. This is why I feel I'm out the $2500. After he told me this I just gave up.

I'm currently not using a BMS just monitoring the batteries and they have stayed in balance 100%. After investigation more in dept I also feel that I really don't need a BMS. Well I do just not a cell by cell the charger takes care of over charging and the Zilla handles the discharge limit. I will have to kill half my pack before your BMS would be worth it. So until I start killing batteries I'm not reinstalling the BMS.

As far as your forum today is the first I've heard of it.

Charlie


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Elithion BMS?*

Hello Charlie,



mcrickman said:


> I was not ever offered tech support through your "forum" ether.





mcrickman said:


> As far as your forum today is the first I've heard of it. Charlie




On Aug 19th I send you an email with a list of all the tech support options available to you, including, yes, the free forum, and I have a reply from you that proves that you received that message. Yet, it appears that you did not take advantage of any of the options we offered, and that you may have not noticed that the free forum was one of the options.

I also did some research and discovered that you bought your system from a company that is not our reseller, and therefore is not bound to provide you with free tech support as our authorized resellers are. I contacted that company, but I am told that they let most employees go in August, that there is no one left there who would be able to help you, and that it is extremely unlikely that they would buy your system back from you. So, I am afraid that you may have been taken by that company. I am truly sorry to hear that, and understand and share your frustration.

However, fear not: unlike the company that sold you your BMS, Elithion will not leave you stranded. Just sign up for our free forum and I'll do my best to answer any question you may have, as will Travis Gintz. (I cannot put a link to that forum in this reply, due to the rules of the DIY forum.)



mcrickman said:


> I'm currently not using a BMS...
> 
> I also feel that I really don't need a BMS.


OK, I accept that.

Now I think I see the problem. It is not that you are not getting help from us, it is that you are not looking for help in the first place, because you really don't want a BMS. OK, that's fine.

If your goal is to recoup your money, I would suggest that your time would be better spent asking us to help you find a buyer for your system, instead of focusing so negatively on our tech support, which is not what you need after all.

Thank you for explaining your concerns so clearly.
Davide
________
Cr125M


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## mcrickman (Sep 10, 2007)

Elithion said:


> On Aug 19th I send you an email with a list of all the tech support options available to you, including, yes, the free forum, and I have a reply from you that proves that you received that message.


Just to clearify:
This is the link you sent me on the 19th.
http://liionbms.com/cgi-bin/moin.py/StandardProducts/Lithiumate/Service/TechSupport

The page talks about calling via phone or skype and you expect $50.00 per 15 mins. 

I haven't asked for any money from anyone nor do I plan to and I'm sure not going to sell something that I don't know even works.

So will the BMS work with a Zilla because on Aug 20 via email you stated
"I must warn you that the 'Zilla has not filtering whatsoever, so it is an exceptionally high source of noise, so you may have some significant difficulties."???

Yet your site gives a Zilla example???

Kinda a mix message if you ask me. 

I felt like that was a go ahead give us some more money then when it didn't work. It would be well I warned you about noise. 

Charlie


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Here's a link to the forum which I found on the support page:
http://lithiumate.elithion.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0

Sounds as if you got screwed by EVX.


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

I am using the Elithion BMS and a Zilla Z1KHV.

I wired the cells according to the online Elithion manual, and found that I did indeed have noise issues (communication faults). 

After discussions on the Elithion forum and with Travis, I then shielded the inter-cell wires on the cells at the end of each bank (where the wires are a bit longer) and re-routed some wires (away from the main conductors) and this showed an improvement - I do not get many faults now, and charging is much better (but still not 100%).

Strangely I am having problems with a metal-encased battery box - with the rear lid on (aluminum) the BMS shows a communication fault almost immediately when driving.

I am confident that when I fully shield all inter-cell wires, this will resolve any issues I am seeing. Not sure about the metal lid issue - was told to completely shield the entire board (not just the inter-cell wires), but I cannot see how this can be done safely... I hope that shielding all wires will solve the metal lid issue - we will see.

I should note that the need for shielded inter-cell wire is mentioned in the manual under troubleshooting etc... It is a fair bit of extra work, but necessary in high powered EVs (in my opinion) - certainly with the Zilla. I would suggest that EV applications immediately plan for and add the inter-cell shielding from the get-go.

Like you, I was mis-lead a bit when I bought the BMS (from EVComponents) - it is expensive, and I thought it would work seamlessly with the Zilla. I was not told of the potential noise issues with the Zilla, and I was fully expecting to wire it up and turn it on. That said, Elithion has given me great support and things are getting worked out.

If anyone is aware of any source solutions for noise (ie adding LC high pass filtering to the Zilla terminal etc...) that would also be helpful.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

gdirwin said:


> If anyone is aware of any source solutions for noise (ie adding LC high pass filtering to the Zilla terminal etc...) that would also be helpful.


Hi gdir,

Just a flyer of an idea. But WTH? You could try twisting the battery power cables. Yeah, a twisted pair of 2/0 cables ain't pretty. But cut the noise, maybe.

Regards,

major


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## Elithion (Oct 6, 2009)

gdirwin said:


> I then shielded the inter-cell wires...


As far as I know, you're the only person to have shielded the comm wires, while everyone else solved their noise issues simply by securing the comm wires to the power bus bars.

[Edit: I made some wrong assumption, sorry, so I removed them from this post.]

We're here for you, to point out the place in the manual that explains the "how", and the place in the Li-Ion Book that explains the "why" (Section 6.1.2.1.1 - "High-Voltage Communication Wires").

Davide
________
Iolite


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## gdirwin (Apr 7, 2009)

No - intercell wires have always been run directly on top of and strapped to the copper busbars between the batteries. This was not sufficient - noise problems still occured.

The re-routing I mentioned was for the end-board to BMS controller wires - even though these are shielded, I routed them away from the main 4/0 conductors. This, combined with some shielding on 4 of the longer wire section) improved things, but everything is not 100% yet.

As I mentioned, Travis has been helping - I sent him some pictures and am acting on his advice to shield all wires.


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