# proud owner of fake A123 cells - not EV related thread



## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

BTW, before I put the battery in the UPS, I was curious how it lives up to its specs, so I loaded it with 1 Ohm 50W resistor when it was still in 12V 1p4S config, which produced about 12Amp current, which is just over 10C for these cells. The battery proudly sustained 10C for over 5 minutes, just getting barely warm, which I can't say about my load resistor . I had to place it on aluminum plate or it would burn the hole in my wooden bench 

I did not wait full 6 minutes to get to the bottom cliff of the discharge curve, I didn't feel like spending another $10 and wait another 2 weeks to get my UPS up and running. But even with 5 minutes at 10C for fake A123 cells its a decent performance IMHO. Voltage was above 3.0V per cell almost entire time. I think 20C could be sustained with appropriate cooling.

Cost per AH is about $2.50, twice as much as large prismatics, but it would be very labor intensive to build large packs for DIY people without proper equipment. Still, I think these cells have their place in various smaller applications.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Nice! Thanks for that....


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

Kind of funny you brought this up. In 2007, long before I got interested in EV's, I bought 12 ANR26650M1 2.3AH cells from A123 Systems to test these new battery types. After they arived I checked the cells and they were all little above 3.3v. I left them on the shelf for over a year to see how much they would discharge in time, a year later they were all about the same voltages exept one was a bit lower, but not enough to even matter. To say the least, I was impressed considering my past experience with nicad's and nmh cells.

Since then I have put four together to make a 12v pack and used it for several little bench projects to test performance, and I was surprised with the performance of the cells. I used an FMA Cellpro 4 to do some charge and discharge tests just to see how they behaved under load, btw the Cellpro charger is a remarkable little device.

Since then I have used some of the cells for things like powering up one of those remote weather stations with radio clock, got tired of replacing the two batteries in the base unit and having to reset it everytime I changed batteries. Also used one of the cells and build me a eCigarette out of some PVC fittings, I charge the eCig with a switching ac/dc 3.3v wall wart I found from a supplier on the internet, it surprisingly charges the cell to exactly 3.6v. 

I also have two APC XS1300 UPS's here in the office/shop, one server and two work stations, and was thinking about doing the same if those batteries ever go bad.

The A123 ANR26650M1 were a bit expensive since I had to get them from A123 in order to be assured I was getting the real thing, they were about $19 each including shipping, but it is what it is when one wants to test stuff...lol 


Roy


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## AJN (Nov 1, 2009)

I've also bought cells from the same seller, but in 26650 size.

Fake or not(how to tell?), I was rather satisfied with them. Cordless drill got a new life with 4S-pack


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## jkeny (Apr 6, 2011)

I don't think these are "fake" A123, rather they seem to be "B" grade rather than "A" grade A123 cells - just don't pass QA in A123 manufacturing (which is now located in China?)

Roy Von Rogers - can you tell me the ebay user that sells the switching ac/dc 3.3v wall wart, you mentioned or what make it is? I'm looking for a cheap single battery charger - doe sit have auto shut-off & what current?


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## Roy Von Rogers (Mar 21, 2009)

Powerstream.com....PST-AC0330W 

Its rated as a 3.3 wallwart, I tested and it stoped at exactly 3.6 volt on an overnight charge.

Roy


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## jkeny (Apr 6, 2011)

Roy Von Rogers said:


> Powerstream.com....PST-AC0330W
> 
> Its rated as a 3.3 wallwart, I tested and it stoped at exactly 3.6 volt on an overnight charge.
> 
> Roy


Thanks Roy, much appreciated - I see they can output 3A current so it shouldn't need overnight to charge a 2.3A A123 single cell. I see also that this is a CC/CV charger great!


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

jkeny said:


> I don't think these are "fake" A123, rather they seem to be "B" grade rather than "A" grade A123 cells - just don't pass QA in A123 manufacturing (which is now located in China?)


I don't buy such theory. If A123 doesn't sell directly to DIY market, why would they risk their brand value by selling "B" grade product, yet not selling their "A" product, makes no sense.

In any case, the thread name was a "tongue in cheek" comment, I really like these tiny cells for small applications, in fact I ordered bunch more to replace Lead Acid in all my UPSs and my friends and relatives's UPSs, these are wonderful for the job, I don't care who makes them.


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## jkeny (Apr 6, 2011)

dimitri said:


> I don't buy such theory. If A123 doesn't sell directly to DIY market, why would they risk their brand value by selling "B" grade product, yet not selling their "A" product, makes no sense.
> 
> In any case, the thread name was a "tongue in cheek" comment, I really like these tiny cells for small applications, in fact I ordered bunch more to replace Lead Acid in all my UPSs and my friends and relatives's UPSs, these are wonderful for the job, I don't care who makes them.


Sure, I understand where you're coming from & it seems logical but on the other hand, what do you think A123 do with the batteries that don't fully pass QA? I've read that they allow them to be sold as long as they are not identified as A grade - i.e the "fake" part is that they put another green plastic sleeve over the underlying one with the barcode on it. This new plastic sleeve says A123 & this is not what A123 want, AFAIR. Anyway, if you strip off the green plastic sleeve you will see embossed on the metal casing of the battery IDs which identify them to A123 manufacturing process. Why would fakers bother to do this & then cover them with 2 plastic sleeves? The tests on these batteries show them to be pretty much bang on the capacity & performance of all A123 batteries - I don't know what the QA failure condition is?

So in essence, you are correct, they are fakes but only in the sense that they are mis-labeled as "A" grade. Once people know this, there is no fakery & nothing wrong with them. I hav ebeen using these for a long time & have never found a problem with them.


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## forpost (Jun 9, 2011)

I bought thirty 18650 cells from this seller and do confirm that batteries are of good conditions. Yes, it is B-grade product (I like the price though), but is way way better than any other "alternative powder" based China manufacturers - none of no-name batteries is capable to provide high currents like these A123 "lower grade" cells.
http://s.dealextreme.com/search/lifepo4 - buy "real fakes" and compare to the subj cells.

Also I am interested how can you tell that such a store don't sell same accus screened out by A123 quality control?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=6444 - $17.96/pc vs $9.25 directly from China.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190459815991&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

 I guess the only confirmed source for A-grade cells is Dewalt packs.

My question is - does anybody know where to buy larger AHR32113 batteries?
This chinese guy posted some promises
http://cgi.ebay.com/16A123-systems-...830095543?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item3a66a384b7
"And A123 32113 will be provide in the future!"

Please share info on AHR32113 sources. Thanks.


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

I can't confirm the authenticity of these, but a bunch of guys on endless sphere have bought the 20 ah prismatic pouch cells from them and they seem to be good.
http://a123rc.com/goods-471-High+Power+Automotive+AHR32113M1Ultra.html


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## forpost (Jun 9, 2011)

*jeremyjs*
Thank you. I've ordered two pcs from them to verify is it real AHR32113M1 or not.


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

Let us know how they work out.


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