# [EVDL] Serial Hybrid Conversion



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

<<<< I'm interested in making a serial hybrid conversion. I was hoping to
start with a standard ICE car, take out the transmission and drive to
the wheels and replace the trans with a DC generator driven by the
ICE's original gas engine to recharge the batteries. An electric motor
would be added to drive the rear wheels and the rest of it would be
similar to a standard EV conversion. >>>>

If you search the EVDL archives for series hybrid, you find that the 
conversion losses make this less efficient than the original ICE 
(especially if you are keeping the ICE instead of down-sizing it). 
Either go full EV or leave it with good working emissions controls and 
learn how to maximize your mpg. Just a couple days ago, we were 
discussing an EV with supplemental charge from a small generator, 
which still work out pretty inefficient. Start reading before doing 
anything, *please*.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why do you want to do this?
The results of such a conversion will be lower mileage, higher emissions,
higher weight (which will have negative effects on handling), less
available space, and of course higher costs and higher maintenance.
Which one of these are you interested in? Or perhaps you just prefer the
Rube Goldberg solution?

If we know what your goals are we can offer better advice.

> I'm interested in making a serial hybrid conversion. I was hoping to
> start with a standard ICE car, take out the transmission and drive to
> the wheels and replace the trans with a DC generator driven by the
> ICE's original gas engine to recharge the batteries. An electric motor
> would be added to drive the rear wheels and the rest of it would be
> similar to a standard EV conversion.
>
> Most plug-in hybrid vehicles are based on the Prius so this would be
> more unique. Some vehicles I had considered for serial hybrid
> conversion were the Toyota Previa, the Suzuki Aerio and the Geo Metro.
>
> I realize that the ICE's original gas motor is going to be a bit larger
> than optimum for efficiency but on the plus side it would be relatively
> quiet, clean and convenient as it is already in place.
>
> Have vehicles like this been built? Can anyone point me towards a web
> site that might describe such a vehicle?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The goal is to build a Plug-In Hybrid for less cost than a converting a
Prius.

Perhaps a used Prius could be gotten for $10,000. Then add another $10K for
the Hymotion Plug-In kit and you've still got a car with maybe a 10 mile
electric range that can go 40MPH.

Or for $20K you could buy a less expensive car, convert it to electric rear
wheel drive, keep the original gas engine and use it drive the generator to
charge the batteries.

Say it got just 15MPG with the generator running. But since it is a Plug-In
Hybrid, you would always start your day with the 50 miles of range in the
battery pack. Most people drive less than 50 miles each day, but if you had
a 100 mile trip to go on, you would use the generator only for the second 50
miles which would use 3.3 gallons of gas and you would still be at 30MPG
equivalent.

The original gas engine might come in handy for the heater and air
conditioner too if you didn't need to use them frequently. And since the
motor is oversized for the job, you could charge the batteries fast (at
maybe a hundred amps) as well as simultaneously powering the electric motor
for cruising. It would probably even pass the smog inspection.

I think a serial hybrid might be better than a parallel hybrid for PHEV
converted from a regular ICE car. If it were a parallel hybrid, you could
be be tempted to just run it on just the gas engine all the time.

I saw someone who had added an AC generator from an RV to their electric
car. It was noisy and smelly. And I doubt that the generator's conversion
from DC to AC to power the charger that outputs DC helps.

Now granted, this isn't a project for everyone. But if you want a Plug-In
Hybrid, your choices are few. And if you want something different than a
Prius, your choices are fewer...

Has anyone heard of this being done?

Thanks!

Bruce
____________________________________________________


> Bruce wrote:
> I'm interested in making a serial hybrid conversion. I was hoping to
> start with a standard ICE car, take out the transmission and drive to
> the wheels and replace the trans with a DC generator driven by the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Check out

http://www.freedom-motors.com/hybrid.html

The reply to my enquire about their car was not very encouraging, however, I
believe that there will be further development.





> cowtown wrote:
> >
> > <<<< I'm interested in making a serial hybrid conversion. I was hoping to
> > start with a standard ICE car, take out the transmission and drive to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Bruce wrote:
> 
> > Or for $20K you could buy a less expensive car, convert it to
> > electric rear wheel drive, keep the original gas engine and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Unless you are planning on using an oversize motor and controller, you
will need a transmission for the electric motor.
Going without the transmission between the electric motor and differential
adds about $5000 the costs.
To get 50 miles range will require at least 1200 lbs worth of
Lead-Acid(PbA) batteries. The electric motor will add about 150 lbs,
another 400 lbs for the generator head. Plus another 500-600 lbs of misc
cables, controllers, chargers, battery boxes/frames, etc.
None of the vehicles you mentions will work with PbA, simply not enough
room to fit the batteries, motor, generator, and original gasoline engine
and associated equipment. You will need to use at least a pickup or van
to handle the 2,000+ lbs worth of extra weight.
Hmm, the 1200 lbs worth of batteries assumed a small car, to get 50 miles
range with a pickup of van, you'll need more batteries, especially since
you'll still be carrying around 600-700 lbs worth of ICE and associated
equipment.
The double conversion losses asociated with the motor and generator will
reduce you engines MPG by at least 40%. Carrying the extra weight will
reduce it even further.
You're probably looking at 10 mpg or less.

You will also have to put up with maintenance cost for the original ICE
equipment, plus maintaining the batteries, etc.

It will cost much more to operate than a converted Prius, even more to
operate than a standard Prius, heck it will cost more to operate than a
standard pickup.

But that's not your goal.
If you use a cheap chinese generator head, you might be able to pickup all
the electric components (including batteries) for about $14,000, $13,000
if you skimp on components.
So as long as your donor costs less than $6,000 you should be able to do
it for less than the Prius conversion.

> The goal is to build a Plug-In Hybrid for less cost than a converting a
> Prius.
>
> Perhaps a used Prius could be gotten for $10,000. Then add another $10K
> for
> the Hymotion Plug-In kit and you've still got a car with maybe a 10 mile
> electric range that can go 40MPH.
>
> Or for $20K you could buy a less expensive car, convert it to electric
> rear
> wheel drive, keep the original gas engine and use it drive the generator
> to
> charge the batteries.
>
> Say it got just 15MPG with the generator running. But since it is a
> Plug-In
> Hybrid, you would always start your day with the 50 miles of range in the
> battery pack. Most people drive less than 50 miles each day, but if you
> had
> a 100 mile trip to go on, you would use the generator only for the second
> 50
> miles which would use 3.3 gallons of gas and you would still be at 30MPG
> equivalent.
>
> The original gas engine might come in handy for the heater and air
> conditioner too if you didn't need to use them frequently. And since the
> motor is oversized for the job, you could charge the batteries fast (at
> maybe a hundred amps) as well as simultaneously powering the electric
> motor
> for cruising. It would probably even pass the smog inspection.
>
> I think a serial hybrid might be better than a parallel hybrid for PHEV
> converted from a regular ICE car. If it were a parallel hybrid, you could
> be be tempted to just run it on just the gas engine all the time.
>
> I saw someone who had added an AC generator from an RV to their electric
> car. It was noisy and smelly. And I doubt that the generator's
> conversion
> from DC to AC to power the charger that outputs DC helps.
>
> Now granted, this isn't a project for everyone. But if you want a Plug-In
> Hybrid, your choices are few. And if you want something different than a
> Prius, your choices are fewer...
>
> Has anyone heard of this being done?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce
> ____________________________________________________


> > Bruce wrote:
> > I'm interested in making a serial hybrid conversion. I was hoping to
> > start with a standard ICE car, take out the transmission and drive to
> > the wheels and replace the trans with a DC generator driven by the
> ...


----------

