# My 1st EV



## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I need help, because I do not know what parts to buy to build an EV to the level that I want. I plan on converting a car myself, but with help from the correct people with car building skills. I have a long list of things that I am looking for in the car and I want to build it cheaper then the ones on the market, like the Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf, and Tesla. I would like to spend as little as possible on the car, but I want it to be a practical car. The car that I want is preferably four door sedan, but can be two door. I would like it to be a normal size, that has 4+ seats with a good trunk, like a Honda Civic or Hyundai Elantra. I know that I can get a decent body for free from a business near me. I drive streets and highways. I do not care if the top speed does not reach what a typical gas powered car can reach, but if it could reach somewhere between 70-90mph that would be great. There are not any hills where I live, it is pretty flat. I only drive cars with an automatic transmission, but I have read that it is easier, cheaper, and better to have a manual transmission for an EV. I have never learned to drive a stick shift, so I do not really know what to do about that. Depending on what day it is, I drive between 25-75 miles per day. A few times a year I drive about 125 miles straight, non-stop, to a destination where it is just one straight highway and no turning back, because there is water all around, so that means I cannot refuel until I have reached my destination. So, I would like for the car to be able to get 100 miles range, but if I can get more that would be great. I understand that the cost would
be greater at this point, so I do not expect to get much more, with the price that I am looking for. If I cannot get a cheap enough or practical enough car to get the long distance drive, then that is fine with me, but it would be nice to be able to drive long range. There are not any charging stations near by, that I know of. The only outlet that would be convenient, would be in the garage. Also, I would like to have what a typical car has, like air conditioning, because it's hot where I live. So basically, I would just like to know what my options are with the pricing, and what do the options get me to achieve, in terms of speed, range, etc. Thank you. If I need to answer more questions, please let me know.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I have been interested in building or having people I know build me an EV for about a year. Now that gas prices are $4.00 per gallon, I am extremely interested and I read the book build your own electric vehicle (1994). I plan on reading the new version from 2009 and Convert It hopefully soon.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I also forgot to add that it would be nice to have power steering. I currently drive a 2010 hyundai elantra, so i would like the car to be comparable. The speed and acceleration does not have to be as good though.


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

Welcome! You've come to the right place to ask these questions. 

For starters, you will want to look a www.evalbum.com to see what other people have done. That will give you a good starting point. Be sure to read their comments, as they may have other suggestions. 

For example: http://evalbum.com/2083 is an Elantra, using lead acid batteries and an Impulse 9 motor. Going to be slow, but should be reliable. 

Personally, I would not recommend lead acid (too heavy, and need to be replaced every 3-5 years). If your budget can afford it, lithium is better (lighter, longer lasting) - but that's my opinion. 

Having things like power steering and AC are all doable, but they add to the cost. AC would add roughly $600 (for the pump)...but in Florida, I suspect it is a necessity.

Since your only outlet is the garage, you'll have to run whatever voltage you have out to the car (110 or 220). If you set your car up correctly, it will accept either 110 or 220.

So my suggestion: read up on other Hyundai conversions and see what they use, and how effective those parts are. Then you can get a better idea on what the cost will be.

Cheers, Peter



EVEngineeer said:


> I need help, because I do not know what parts to buy to build an EV to the level that I want. I plan on converting a car myself, but with help from the correct people with car building skills. I have a long list of things that I am looking for in the car and I want to build it cheaper then the ones on the market, like the Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf, and Tesla. I would like to spend as little as possible on the car, but I want it to be a practical car. The car that I want is preferably four door sedan, but can be two door. I would like it to be a normal size, that has 4+ seats with a good trunk, like a Honda Civic or Hyundai Elantra. I know that I can get a decent body for free from a business near me. I drive streets and highways. I do not care if the top speed does not reach what a typical gas powered car can reach, but if it could reach somewhere between 70-90mph that would be great. There are not any hills where I live, it is pretty flat. I only drive cars with an automatic transmission, but I have read that it is easier, cheaper, and better to have a manual transmission for an EV. I have never learned to drive a stick shift, so I do not really know what to do about that. Depending on what day it is, I drive between 25-75 miles per day. A few times a year I drive about 125 miles straight, non-stop, to a destination where it is just one straight highway and no turning back, because there is water all around, so that means I cannot refuel until I have reached my destination. So, I would like for the car to be able to get 100 miles range, but if I can get more that would be great. I understand that the cost would
> be greater at this point, so I do not expect to get much more, with the price that I am looking for. If I cannot get a cheap enough or practical enough car to get the long distance drive, then that is fine with me, but it would be nice to be able to drive long range. There are not any charging stations near by, that I know of. The only outlet that would be convenient, would be in the garage. Also, I would like to have what a typical car has, like air conditioning, because it's hot where I live. So basically, I would just like to know what my options are with the pricing, and what do the options get me to achieve, in terms of speed, range, etc. Thank you. If I need to answer more questions, please let me know.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

Thank you for such a great response, I truly appreciate it. I may not be using an Elantra for my conversion, but that is the car that I drive now, so I used that as an example, because that is what I know. Thank you for the link to the Elantra on the evalbum, i do know about that website. I think I know just about every ev related website, because of all the research I am doing. I am not going to stop researching, until I feel that I am ready to build a car myself. The car that I can get for free will basically be not just a body, but an old car that has little to zero rust and it will be a complete gas car. The reason I can get it for free is, because the engine has died and I know people who acquire these and just give them away. I may even be able to pay them a small amount to remove the engine, exhaust, etc. In other words, the air conditioning and other stuff will be in the car, so I will not need to buy the extras. I just need parts to make the vehicle an EV. My budget is a max of 30k, but if I am building the car myself, then I do not want to pay anything near that, because I can just buy a Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf. So, I'm hoping for 15-25k


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

Sounds like a good plan. Note that you won't be able to drive the AC compressor as you used to, unless you get a motor with dual shafts. Actually this will work well, if you are going to use an automatic transmission - the motor would spin at "idle" and keep the transmission pressurized and drive the AC pump. Heck, you could even drive the power steering pump off of that rear shaft. Will require a bit of extra work, but would be worth it to keep the factory parts.

The Warp9 has a tail shaft, so that would do the trick. Most of the modern DC controllers can also idle the motor so that's also good for you.

Cheers, Peter


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

Great ideas, thank you. I was leaning towards a Warp 9, but now I am wondering if an AC motor would be better, because then I could get some regenerative breaking + it's a lighter weight motor. I know the cost would be more, but I was wondering if it would be worth it in the long term to get me more range.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Up and down hills it will be worth it. If you're mostly on flats you're better off spending the extra money on more batteries.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

Why is AC with regenerative breaking better for hills and not flat land?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Regen lets you redirect energy from your brake pads to your batteries, so the more brake action there is the more it can help.

You can recapture 10-30% of your energy with city driving on the flat. With hilly terrain there's much more potential to get energy back.

An AC system typically costs 1.5-2x what a DC system does, so the cost is usually much more than the payback.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I do drive highway a lot, so there are hills in a way, because the roads go up and down, but I do not think I want to spend to much money and if it does cost 2x then I think i'll pass on that. Thank you.


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

The AC50 with the Curtis 650A controller is a decent combo - a friend has a 914 with that and he has good range (about 60 miles) and decent acceleration - 0-60 is about 10 seconds. Check the prices on the AC50 combo vs a Warp9 & Netgain controller combo - not too far off.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

that's good, but what is the top mph?


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

What is the cheapest ways to build this car? What parts are needed to get it to perform at the level that I want and why? Is it possible to build an EV that is a 2 or 4 door sedan, like a honda civic, under 30k? I want to be able to drive highway and streets (70-90mph top speed) and have at least 75 miles range while doing lets say 75mph. Is this possible to build and can it be done cheap? If not, the speed could be lowered to 70mph and the range could be lowered to 65.


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## somanywelps (Jan 25, 2012)

EVEngineeer said:


> Is this possible to build and can it be done cheap?


No.

Also judging by your engineering aptitude demonstrated in the free energy thread, you should probably buy a production car, an electric one if you prefer.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

would you like to give me a more detailed answer instead of just insulting me, thanks. FYI I wouldn't be building it alone, I know plenty of people. They would either do it for free or a small fee.


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

75 mile range at 75mph would be difficult and expensive, 75 mile range at 55mph could be doable for your budget. The wind resistance at 75mph is almost double the resistance at 55mph, so you would get about half the range roughly. The mini truck for example which is light but not very aerodynamic, uses just under 100A at 50km/hr and between 250 and 300A at 80km/hr. I will only get ~ half the range at the higher speed. As an example if your more aerodynamic car draws the same amperage at 75mph (120km/hr) as mine at 50mph (80km/hr) then you will need 300 usable Ahs to drive for an hour at 300A current draw. Thats $18,000 for 48 cells at $1.25/Ah! I guess thats still in your budget but thats a very big pack at over 1000lbs for just the cells. Hard to fit that in a Civic. But thats just an example, if you can find someone with a similar conversion to give you their actual current draw and voltage at 75mph you could make a better estimate.


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

My Porsche 914 burns an average 300wh/mile driving at 70mph. So if you have something less aerodynamic, it will use more power. 

Assume that you will use 300wh/mile. 0.3kwh/mi * 75 mi = 22.5kwh. That will provide you enough power but will drive the pack to zero - not good. So, you need at least 20% buffer. 22.5kwh / 0.8 = 28.1kwh. 

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Peter


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I need at least 65mph top speed. So what range could I get that would still keep me in budget? I need at least 50 miles range, but that is cutting it close, so the more range the better. My daily commute is 25 miles going and 25 back, but if the route is blocked or bad traffic, then I would need a little more range. 70mph would be more ideal, because some highways do have a 70mph speed limit.


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## PThompson509 (Jul 9, 2009)

Well, if you are converting a Civic, then the AC50 with the Curtis controller is probably your most cost effective combo out there. A friend of mine has a 914 with that motor in it, and he loves it. He said his range is 117 miles, but that is city driving. He is also getting 219 wh/mile. Check it out:

http://www.evalbum.com/3517

Hopefully that will give you a few more ideas.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

That is cool thanks for the info. Because of all the stop and go traffic, if he did highway at lets say 65mph would the range be about 80-100? I only need like 60 miles range in daily highway driving. If he really does get 117 miles range city then if I did not drive highway, that range would still be perfect, because I need 100 city driving.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

The motor/controller combo is virtually irrelevant to hwy range. In stop and go it can recover 10-30%, but in hwy it will be nearly 0.

Just figure out your wh/mile based on the car you want to use and times it by 90 (to give a safe 60) and that is the min size of battery pack you need. In city driving aerodynamics are nearly irrelevant, but for hwy they're everything.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

I pretty much only drive highway 50 miles per day. What car would you recommend? I would like to get more range just in case and just to be positive I'll make it to my destinations. I would like the car to be able to reach 80+mph, but I would drive like 70mph. I do not think it is a good idea to drive an EV for ~25 miles straight on max speed.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

I'd recommend something with better aero than a bug...find some potential cars you like and compare their stock mpg to get an idea of hwy efficiency. 

We used to pick cars based on low weight with high cargo capacity but with lithium the cargo bit isn't as important, and for hwy distance weight isn't nearly the issue that aero is. The more manual you can handle the easier it is, as well as less electronic stuff is easier.

Ultimately pick a car you really like as you'll be spending a ton of time and money on it, and with your range in it as well.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

Would the newer models of a Honda Civic be good?


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Good question. Some more questions you'll want to answer:

What's the MPG?
What's the cargo capacity?
What's the weight?
What's the weight capacity?
How are the accessories powered?
What all electronic controls are used?


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