# High performance electric car



## TheGangster (Apr 11, 2011)

Hi everyone.
i am busy planing my next build....an electric car! i plan on building it from scrach...[(quite a challange)...i like challenges] i have the chaises, etc. sorted out its just the electrics and as indicates with the "high performance" title this car must have an excess amount of power. the car will probably be Ariel atom size.

I have a few ideas...


i think that the *motor* should be DC. as i understand this will be cheaper and more simple. i would also like it to have Regen i don't know how possible this would be with a DC setup...i have a golf cart with Regen and i just love the feeling when you lift your foot off the throttle and the cart feels like you have just gone into deep water and you can just imagine the "juice" running back into the batteries. i don't understand the whole volts and amps thing 100% but from what i can understand something like 144v and up sounds like PERFORMANCE 
the *batteries* would depend on the motor i choose but i would probable be using lead acid batteries to save costs.
then again the *controller *would depend on the motor. Don't forget the Regen.
i have heard of names like NetGain Motors, Inc....for the motor and Curtis and Zilla for the controllers.

i was looking at a range of about 150 - 200 km (+-100 - 150 miles) Don't forget the car will be pretty small and light...only 2 seats. 

i am not too sure about the transmission saga...what is most effisiant...mannul, automatic or no transmission at all??? i would also like to add solar panels to the car and connect them in a way that when i am driving they are charging the batteries as well as when i am parked and the car is turned off... 

i would be very grateful if anyone could help me out and set me on the right road. i hope i have given enough info and i a not very experienced with this type of stuff so any help, advice or criticism will be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

TheGangster said:


> the car will probably be Ariel atom size.
> 
> i have heard of names like NetGain Motors, Inc....for the motor and Curtis and Zilla for the controllers.
> 
> i was looking at a range of about 150 - 200 km (+-100 - 150 miles)



- doing your own tube frame creates a huge amount of challange in build, registration, and licensing for the road without DOT testing... think twice about that.

- Netgain DC motors, fine... if you want huge performance you might read some threads on others that have tandemed 8" or 9" motors together. Zilla controllers are 'on hold' production-wise, but Soliton1 or Raptor may fit your needs.

- a lead build it NOT going to work for you. you won't get the range, performance, or life possible with Li. Your choice will be whether to go with 'cheap' CALB(Winston) cells, r bigger dollars for high output Headways or similar....


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## TheGangster (Apr 11, 2011)

About the cahsies...i appreciate your concern, i might go with an original car but i know for sure whatever i get will be small and light...

out of interest are there any other big motor manufacturers out there other that NetGain and can i use just any DC motor for Regen? do i need a special controller for Regen?

i was also just wondering weather it would be possible (and worth it) if i connect solar panels to charge the batteries?? and also about the gearbox.........

I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me, as i say... i am inexperienced when it comes down to this topic!!! 

Thanks
"""ThGangster"""


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You could look at Kostov Motors as well.

Series motors are not easy to regen. Easier would be permanent magnet or ac motors.

As for the transmission, that would be a personal decision based on what you have and how you will use it.

Have a look at CroDriver's BMW thread. He doesn't have a transmission, nor does the White Zombie.

Solar panels won't give much, if any, return unless you put them on your house and lived in a really sunny part of the world.


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## TheGangster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks...

Are AC systems really worth it?? are permanent magnet motors powerful enough?

i was also wondering about joining 2 motors together...

how would you go about doing that?....belt, chain....
do you need 2 controllers then
THANKS


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

AC systems get you higher speeds (A good AC system redlines at 10-12 thousand RPM, whereas a DC one redlines at 5-6 thousand), and gets you ((much) easier) Regen. DC systems get you better starting torque.
Joining 2 motors should be done with something that ideally won't stretch. Chain or toothed belt is okay, but a hard-link is best. If you're running DC you don't need 2 controllers (Though if you're going to do series-parallel switching, you do need a controller that supports it), but if you're running AC or BLDC, depending on the setup, you may need a second controller (If you can get both AC/BLDC motors mechanically synchronised and keep them that way, it's entirely possible to drive 2 motors off 1 controller, which will just "see" the motor pair as a single twice-as-large motor).

Permanent magnet motors are typically strong enough for most applications, though I've yet to see one used for racing, or anything larger than a motorbike at the moment.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

I wouldn't use a PM motor in an application like yours. They demagnetize with heat. Check:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/ripperton-electric-track-bike-41173p22.html




RIPPERTON said:


> Just toasted a second set of magnets.
> both rotors are now dead
> core temp was 140C, was running at 500 amps
> fan is working fine.
> now looking for some bigass magnets


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## powerhouse (Apr 1, 2011)

One thing I didnt realize when i began planning an electric car conversion, is the gratuitous price of range. In order to get an 150 Mile range, you would have to have about 45 Kw of power, at an average of 300 watts of drain per mile. Watts are Voltage X Amps, so you would have to figure out a way to end up with 45000 watts. A headway LiFepo4 with 32 watts of energy is 18 dollars. So you would need a little over 1000 of those, plus shipping, plus having to build an enclosure, plus having a BMS built, you are looking at 22K+ just for batteries. Now, it is possible to get around spending this much for batteries, but dont expect to save more than 5k. Also, it is close to impossible to use regen on DC, but easily done on an AC motor. That said, AC motors are very very expensive compared to DC motors, and they have to be coupled to a proprietary controller. Expect to pay 35k for an AC motor, comparable to a DC motor that is only 4k.


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## John (Sep 11, 2007)

I think you will find high performance and regen are difficult to achieve at the same time with currently available solutions unless you have deep pockets or can build your own controller. Currently commercially available low cost AC is pretty low powered and so is SepEx. 

High performance is where going transmission-less starts to work. The two parameters you need to consider are the gearing you'll need for your desired grade-ability and the gearing you'll need for your desired top speed bearing in mind that your motor will have a red line RPM. If those two gearings don't provide some overlap you will need more than one gear and hence cannot go transmission-less. 

A high range and performance can be somewhat at odds with each other also. The enemy of performance is weight and a high range dictates that a significant percentage of the vehicles rolling weight be battery weight. A Tesla roadster for instance is about 1/3 battery by weight and this with a high energy density battery. Imagine how much faster it would go if it was lighter by almost half a ton. Going short range and high performance would probably require an unconventional battery solution as in power dense rather than energy dense.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Performance at low cost, or at least not really high cost, means series DC, and no regen. Any kind of range means lots of lithium batteries, also not cheap. If you tell us your budget we can tell you what you can realistically achieve.


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