# Volt lies...



## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

So essentially they lied to us about the Volt being a series hybrid. Basiclly it is a parallel hybrid like the rest of them. I still say it is a solution to a nonexistent problem.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

namyzarc said:


> Chevy lies about the Volt beeing an EREV:
> http://gas2.org/2010/06/29/report-chevy-volt-is-more-straight-hybrid-than-we-knew/
> Can't say that I'm surprized...


Hey namy,

See the pics in http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/chey-volt-some-new-pictures-38627.html Hard to tell, ain't it?

But I never heard any claims from GM saying it was a series hybrid. In fact they have always been very careful to say it is an EREV. So what is the big deal? Who cares how it gets the job done? It runs the first XX miles on electric (grid) power and then on gas after that in hybrid mode. 

Results count, not methods.

major


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

major said:


> Hey namy,
> 
> See the pics in http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/chey-volt-some-new-pictures-38627.html Hard to tell, ain't it?
> 
> ...


 Because if it is a series hybrid and the gas engine goes out we can replace it with batteries and be on our merry way total EV. But if it isn't and the engine is connected mechanically it becomes extremely difficult to replace the method of generating electricity for the range extending part. The generator in a series becomes modular and can be replaced with any electric producing source.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Jason Lattimer said:


> Because if it is a series hybrid and the gas engine goes out we can replace it with batteries and be on our merry way total EV.


That is such a great selling point. A feature every new car buyer is looking for. 

Did you look at the pictures? Series or parallel. You'll need to cut the thing apart in either case to remove the engine. So what? For the 2 or 3 or dozen guys that are going to do that in 12 years, GM should compromise on what they think is the optimum approach? NOT. It runs with full performance without the engine on. So there must be a clutch, right? Then why would it be more difficult to remove that engine than the engine on any of the ICEs we convert? If fact it would be easier because none of the accessories are engine driven, like heat and air and power steering and alternator and the like.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

One possible thing to think about. What if for some reason the motor crapped out or the battery pack crapped out. If you do have some sort of accessory link from the engine to the drive line even through the motor via some sort of electronic clutch it would make perfect sense to have that emergency switch to connect the gas engine directly to get you home even at limited speeds due to the size of the engine. It is a possible because it looks like the motor and engine are build like a motor attached to a transaxle. For the most time it may just be the extended range electric. But in the dire emergency it may have that couple to get you home on gas only mode. It is possible. 

That would be OK. But if it is just a prius under cover then it's a big deal. They have a big boo boo to fix and if they don't live up to what they have been promoting then they are in trouble. If the Volt comes out first I will ditch the Leaf over the Volt as my location would be better suited to what the volt has to offer. I like the Leaf and am on the list but I am willing to entertain the Volt. 

Buy America would be cool too. But not a requirement. 

Pete


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

XXXX is 40 miles....


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## San_Carlos_Jeff (Nov 7, 2008)

namyzarc said:


> Chevy lies about the Volt beeing an EREV:
> http://gas2.org/2010/06/29/report-chevy-volt-is-more-straight-hybrid-than-we-knew/
> Can't say that I'm surprized...


Not true according to this link:
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/28/chevrolet-volt-will-not-have-direct-engine-drive-electric-only/


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

I like that front grill. Dang, Why does the UK get those cool designs and we get the stupid ones. Love that grill. GM, we want that look.  Well at least I do.


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## namyzarc (Mar 18, 2008)

major said:


> Hey namy,
> 
> See the pics in http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/chey-volt-some-new-pictures-38627.html Hard to tell, ain't it?
> 
> ...


It matters for 2 reasons:
1. If it is a series hybrid, like they claimed, I would be able to do ALL of my commuting & local errand-running without buring any gas whatsoever, because the 40-mile range would be more than sufficient for those tasks.

2. A parallel hybrid, unlike a series hybrid requires a more complex (read: more expensive and more likely to fail) trasmission. As if the volt wasn't expensive enough already, now we have a more complex tranny to deal with too.


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## namyzarc (Mar 18, 2008)

San_Carlos_Jeff said:


> Not true according to this link:
> http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/28/chevrolet-volt-will-not-have-direct-engine-drive-electric-only/


I hope it's true, and damn the Ampera looks WAY better than the volt!! Europe always gets the better-looking cars...


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Actually I remember them going to great pains to try to get the media to refer to the volt as a range extended electric car. They didn't even like the term "hybrid".

I know I'll never buy one.


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

i am from europe and i like the look of the volt much more than that of the ampera...

volt is a electric car with range extender...the ICE can not directly drive the wheels...that is what GM said from the beginning


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

namyzarc said:


> 1. If it is a series hybrid, like they claimed,


Hi namy,

You started this thread and titled it with a falsehood as far as I can tell. Please verify with a quote or reliable source that GM actually claimed the Volt is a *series hybrid*. They have from the start and continue to this day to call it an *Extended Range Electric Vehicle* or EREV. To my knowledge, there is no legitimate definition of EREV which defines it as a series hybrid or otherwise by the likes of SAE. 



namyzarc said:


> 1. If it is a series hybrid, like they claimed, I would be able to do ALL of my commuting & local errand-running without buring any gas whatsoever, because the 40-mile range would be more than sufficient for those tasks.


And an EREV which employed a parallel architecture may in fact give you that 40 mile all electric range. I think that Plug-In conversions of the Prius can do that without burning any gas whatsoever.

Regards,

major


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## Powered By DC (Jan 3, 2009)

Another article about the topic

http://gm-volt.com/2010/06/30/combu...ll-not-turn-the-volts-driveshaft-ever-got-it/

Dave Kois
Current EV Tech, LLC


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## namyzarc (Mar 18, 2008)

major said:


> Hi namy,
> 
> You started this thread and titled it with a falsehood as far as I can tell. Please verify with a quote or reliable source that GM actually claimed the Volt is a *series hybrid*. They have from the start and continue to this day to call it an *Extended Range Electric Vehicle* or EREV. To my knowledge, there is no legitimate definition of EREV which defines it as a series hybrid or otherwise by the likes of SAE.
> 
> ...


EREV = Series Hybrid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EREV
Granted Wikipedia may bot be considered a "reliable source" but most aricles I've ever read about the volt use the terms Series Hybrid & EREV interchangably.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

namyzarc said:


> EREV = Series Hybrid


Hi namy,

I do not see where that article says "EREV = Series Hybrid". It does say "*This* drivetrain layout is considered a plug-in series hybrid design since mechanical power drives the generator, which in turn either charges the battery pack or provides power to the electric motor. While the ICE has an electrical connection with the electric motor and hence the wheels, there is no mechanical linkage to the wheels...." *This* refers to the Volt, not EREVs in general, from what I can tell. 

Mute point, maybe. But if I made a parallel hybrid which could travel 100 miles on electric battery power only, you'd say I could not call it an EREV?

But it does seem that you are mistaken about the title to your thread.
1. GM never called the volt a series hybrid. They always say it is an EREV.
2. The volt architecture is in fact a series hybrid. Confirmed by several other articles.

I think what you have here is inaccurate reporting by those not skilled in the technology. And no universally accepted definitions of terminology such as EREV. Personally, I don't see the big deal 

major


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

namyzarc said:


> .....but most aricles I've ever read about the volt use the terms Series Hybrid & EREV interchangably.


Before the Volt, there are actually a large number of series hybrids in service as commercial vehicles. And to my knowledge, these are all charge sustaining, meaning they never plug in to charge the battery. So Series Hybrid and EREV are not interchangeable terms.



david85 said:


> Actually I remember them going to great pains to try to get the media to refer to the volt as a range extended electric car. They didn't even like the term "hybrid".


I agree with david85. And I heard such from the horse's mouth, so to speak. GM was quite touchy about calling the Volt an EV, not a hybrid. But to me, it does look like a series hybrid intended to operate on a charge depletion strategy. 

Even with that said, once it is sold to a person, GM has no control over how it is used. So I can see people buying the volt and never plugging it in. Then it would simply be a series hybrid running on a charge sustaining strategy, with an oversized battery 

Regards,

major


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

major said:


> I agree with david85. And I heard such from the horse's mouth, so to speak. GM was quite touchy about calling the Volt an EV, not a hybrid. But to me, it does look like a series hybrid intended to operate on a charge depletion strategy.
> 
> Even with that said, once it is sold to a person, GM has no control over how it is used. So I can see people buying the volt and never plugging it in. Then it would simply be a series hybrid running on a charge sustaining strategy, with an oversized battery
> 
> ...


I always figured that was called a series hybrid

LOL, these new acronyms are making my head spin. I'm going to take a crayon and draw "EV" on my electric car now.....


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