# [EVDL] Affordable AC Motor?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm back in the hunt for an affordable powerful AC motor. Doesn't look 
like anything has changed in the last year or two.
I looked at the AC55 once again, at 300lbs it could or should put out 
big power, but their specs are only 310vdc, 56KW peak,
the AC24 is too weak, not cheap either.
The Tesla boasts a 70lb motor that outputs 175KW ? 
UQM's motors don't get near that with their biggest motor, which looks 
great, but is unaffordable anyway.
What AC motors are they using in the newer forklifts? Available?
What about using AC generators as motors? There are some 10KW available.

Has anyone tried or looked into building a perm mag AC motor? 

Jack

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

FYI there was some investigation into using converted alternators as ac mot=
ors. A larger version for a big truck may get you as high as 10hp.
=

Search in google for -oregon alternator go-carts ev controller =

=

Sorry, that's all I personally got in cheep.
=

Arak Leatham - Web and Desktop Systems Developer







Estimating, Point of Sale, Tracking, Reporting Applications> Date: Tue, 23 =
Oct 2007 17:59:06 -0700> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]=
u.edu> Subject: [EVDL] Affordable AC Motor?> > I'm back in the hunt for an =
affordable powerful AC motor. Doesn't look > like anything has changed in t=
he last year or two.> I looked at the AC55 once again, at 300lbs it could o=
r should put out > big power, but their specs are only 310vdc, 56KW peak,> =
the AC24 is too weak, not cheap either.> The Tesla boasts a 70lb motor that=
outputs 175KW ? > UQM's motors don't get near that with their biggest moto=
r, which looks > great, but is unaffordable anyway.> What AC motors are the=
y using in the newer forklifts? Available?> What about using AC generators =
as motors? There are some 10KW available.> > Has anyone tried or looked int=
o building a perm mag AC motor? > > Jack> > _______________________________=
________________> For subscription options, see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mail=
man/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook =96 together at last. =
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

not sure if you can use it but the B&S Etek brushless DC motor is small 
yet potent for its size and while one is probably too little for a car, 
2 might do ok.
they cost something like 600$ and weigh 9kg (20lbs)

Dan

Jack Murray skrev:
> I'm back in the hunt for an affordable powerful AC motor. Doesn't look 
> like anything has changed in the last year or two.
> I looked at the AC55 once again, at 300lbs it could or should put out 
> big power, but their specs are only 310vdc, 56KW peak,
> the AC24 is too weak, not cheap either.
> The Tesla boasts a 70lb motor that outputs 175KW ? 
> UQM's motors don't get near that with their biggest motor, which looks 
> great, but is unaffordable anyway.
> What AC motors are they using in the newer forklifts? Available?
> What about using AC generators as motors? There are some 10KW available.
>
> Has anyone tried or looked into building a perm mag AC motor? 
>
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yes, that's them. I think they are really good people. Partly because he wa=
s at least willing to consider how to outfit my DF vehicle.



Arak Leatham - Web and Desktop Systems Developer




Estimating, Point of Sale, Tracking, Reporting Applications> Date: Tue, 23 =
Oct 2007 21:51:55 -0700> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> S=
ubject: Re: [EVDL] Affordable AC Motor?> > Was that Ives from Crux electron=
ics/Synkromotive? I'm working with him> now on an AC controller... I'll try=
and get some information on what> he did. He's got a moped running on a 15=
0A AC controller and a small> alternator. THAT THING SCOOTS!!!!! There's go=
carts running on them> too.> > On 10/23/07, Arak Leatham <[email protected]=


> .com> wrote:> >> > FYI there was some investigation into using converted al=
> ternators as ac motors. A larger version for a big truck may get you as hig=
> h as 10hp.> >> > Search in google for -oregon alternator go-carts ev contro=
> ller> >> > Sorry, that's all I personally got in cheep.> >> > Arak Leatham =
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

the Crux electronics/Synkromotive conversion noted earlier costs $60 to con=
vert at Crux, but they will give you the directions for the conversion for =
free.
=

Since the diodes are discarded (I believe) you can easilly use otherwise de=
ad alternators from junk parts etc.



Arak Leatham - Web and Desktop Systems Developer




Estimating, Point of Sale, Tracking, Reporting Applications> Date: Wed, 24 =
Oct 2007 05:53:50 +0200> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]=
edu> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Affordable AC Motor?> > not sure if you can use it=
but the B&S Etek brushless DC motor is small > yet potent for its size and=
while one is probably too little for a car, > 2 might do ok.> they cost so=
mething like 600$ and weigh 9kg (20lbs)> > Dan> > Jack Murray skrev:> > I'm=
back in the hunt for an affordable powerful AC motor. Doesn't look > > lik=
e anything has changed in the last year or two.> > I looked at the AC55 onc=
e again, at 300lbs it could or should put out > > big power, but their spec=
s are only 310vdc, 56KW peak,> > the AC24 is too weak, not cheap either.> >=
The Tesla boasts a 70lb motor that outputs 175KW ? > > UQM's motors don't =
get near that with their biggest motor, which looks > > great, but is unaff=
ordable anyway.> > What AC motors are they using in the newer forklifts? Av=
ailable?> > What about using AC generators as motors? There are some 10KW a=
vailable.> >> > Has anyone tried or looked into building a perm mag AC moto=
r? > >> > Jack> >> > _______________________________________________> > For=
subscription options, see> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev> >>=
> > > _______________________________________________> For subscription op=
tions, see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook =96 together at last. =
Get it now.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=3DCL10062=
6971033
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So it seems nothing has changed over the last two
years, still no affordable powerful AC motors out
there or controllers, at least the EVDL list knows
about. A go-cart motor is cool, but isn't much help
for a full-size car.
Jack



> --- Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, they're great guys. They're developing some
> > interesting stuff
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have two of these motors (Mars Electric), one in my
jetski with a 48v-200amp controller I built, the 120v
version is still not working. =


But that is still not powerful enough for a car, or at
least a fast normal car. I've considered ganging them
up, but that is a lot of work and expense, it my view
it would be more productive to just build my own
larger single motor from scratch or close to it.

Jack



> --- ampaynz1 <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > =
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

But what about a BLDC motor that can take the current and is wound for
that voltage? Are there ones out there I'm not seeing?



> ampaynz1 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I did some searches and found some brushless stuff on chinese websites
> > alibaba or something like that. Still probably not big enough to have lots
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm still relatively new to motor theory but as I see it the voltage 
limit in an AC motor (brushless DC) is not a wiring issue but one of max 
rpm the motor can mechanically handle. a wire doesn't have a voltage 
limit (except for maybe insulation but maybe that's not an issue in 
practice)

maybe someone else knows, am I right that voltage for an AC motor is 
only limited by the the rpm it can handle? (assuming current limitation 
of course)

further, as I've stated before, why not look into what motors the 
several available hybrids use today? once in a consumer mass production 
environment the prices tend to be much more reasonable. I was at a car 
show the other day where I saw the very nice Lexus LS600h which although 
still a mainly gas hybrid, the salesman claimed 530Nm torque on the 
electric motors alone. sure a lexus part could be expensive but maybe 
someone could look into spare parts cost of some of the more mainstream 
SUV hybrids in USA. some specs and a price. would it kill someone is USA 
to do that? : )
is it an EV developers list or a rest home

Dan 



> Travis Gintz wrote:
> > But what about a BLDC motor that can take the current and is wound for
> > that voltage? Are there ones out there I'm not seeing?
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

: ) if a little provocation gets the job done I'm not above it.
but please give them a call for the parts. it sounds like there are at 
least motor but probably more. they might be expensive but then at least 
we'll know where we stand and don't waste more time hoping in that 
direction. we might be positively surprised.
as for the botton I think that's actually a good thing, maybe it gets 
them hooked on the good stuff until they scream for more 
although hybrids are not really efficient it's a great way to expose 
electric drive.
the EV grin is more addictive than crack 

Dan



> Ben wrote:
> > A little harsh?  Really, I was curious about those motors as well -
> > the new Highlander hybrid has a 165HP, 247 lb-ft electric, plus 4WD
> > models have an additional rear motor -- I can't find the specs on it
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

How about 188V bldc salient pole(4) 3 phase about 3" thick by 10" dia.
around 70 lb/ft torque and around $500 used.

Honda insight IMA motor. Just a thought.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thats a honda insight motor? Hmmm, Might have to look at that.



> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> > How about 188V bldc salient pole(4) 3 phase about 3" thick by 10" dia.
> > around 70 lb/ft torque and around $500 used.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think neither the Honda IMA motor nor the Prius
motors are very well cooled, so you may need to improve
that feature if you want to run it as an EV-only and
give the motor a long life.
Not impossible, but don't assume that since the vehicle
has an electric motor will mean that you can run it 
continuous duty without problems, so there may be some
work necessary before it does what you want.

Just a general heads-up.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Gintz
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Affordable AC Motor?

Thats a honda insight motor? Hmmm, Might have to look at that.



> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> > How about 188V bldc salient pole(4) 3 phase about 3" thick by 10" dia.
> > around 70 lb/ft torque and around $500 used.
> >
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The prius motor(s) are integrated into a transaxle and depends on the
splashing oil to help cool.

I agree on the cooling issue.

The honda IMA motor is just a stator and a magnet rotor. Almost like a
frameless motor, the rotor doesn't need much cooling. You could make
your own housing(indeed you would have to) and put stator cooling in it.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Ben wrote:
> > I dug around ebay looking, but didn't find any used parts for sale. I
> > haven't called a dealership for parts prices because with what they
> > like to charge usually for parts, you'd probably be better off buying
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

If you really want a junked hybrid, try the insurance auctions. If the
junk yards in your area aren't interested in hybrids yet, then they should
go fairly cheaply, especially if they look unrepairable.

> The two junkyards I've checked with don't have any hybrids; one claimed
> they are "too new." I found a junkyard 100+ miles away that had an
> Insight but never got to call them and now I lost their info 8(.
>
> The Honda IMA motors are small for a regular vehicle, but should work
> for a light EV/hybrid like the XR-3.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

get the whole engine for less than that at a junk yard




> --- Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Thats a honda insight motor? Hmmm, Might have to
> > look at that.
> ...


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