# Ghia with LiFePO4 setup: Opinions on my plan please



## Guest (Apr 20, 2009)

My motor is a GE 9" and it can handle high voltage and it has a built in adaptor. Some don't but the GE (used) would be a good thing to look into. It fits within the engine compartment without cutting. It is tight but it fits. As for the batteries I'd go with the highest amp hour and highest voltage you can. Higher voltage means less amp draw and that is good. With a good Zilla you'd have one nice Ghia. The Manzanita is good from what I hear but I am only using an old dump golf cart charger as my system is only 72 volts. I am glad to hear you are going to fork over the money for the Lithium's. That is a big investment. I am not ready to do that quite yet. As for the controllers there are a few options. Used Zilla's, Curtis, Logisystems, and other used High end controllers that are a bit older but ones that do work. Hunt around for them. I think maybe Logisystems controller might fit the bill but the Zilla would be the best on the market so far. Balance the weight in the vehicle. I have much of my weight where the rear seat used to be and that weight is more center balanced than with the old engine in the back. It is now more like a mid engined VW. The thing handles the turns very well. I like the weight distribution much better. 

Pete : )

PS. What other info do you need.


----------



## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow the Manzanita setup is very expensive. $3300 for the charger and then another $3000 or so for the lithium regulators?

Do you have any details on exactly what these "regulators" do? I'm not seeing much information on the site.

What range are you hoping to get out of the car? I noticed they dropped the continous rating on 200+ cells from 3C down to 2C (400 amps in this case). It must have something to do with the wide style cell design. Either way you won't need this much continous power so that's still fine. Most importantly just get the dimensions of the cells and make sure to calculate how many you can fit and where.

http://www.thunder-sky.com/pdf/2008926101921.pdf


----------



## Nicolas.Drouin (Dec 2, 2008)

Well, I can't speak for the lithium batteries, I'm using 12x group 31 gels (a tad heavy, but holding up nicely with some suspension mods).

You will have to cut (as i did) if you are packing in a Warp9 (or remove the tranny and try to get it all back in there...) -- perhaps not if you get one without the backshaft.

Go for the VW transmission adapter at CanEV. I de-iced and remounted the Warp9 in an 8 hour day (see blog link below).

I am using a 1000A Logisystems controller and its more than I know what to do with -- perhaps if I raced the car?

At 144V, my top speed (so far, "closed track, professional driver, do not attempt this at home") is 87mph (140km/hr) and there was still some left in there.

Actual range is over 35 miles at ~55mph, but I have no interest in actually testing until I grind to a halt.

I'm using two Delta-Q chargers: flawless.
Why do you want to charge at 50A? Are you really emptying the pack every day? Can you charge at work, it really helps!

No packtrakr nor E-meter (link10); made some nifty LED voltmeters instead (see link on evalbum) -- its take about a week to get-a-feel for it anyway.

More info at: 
www.evalbum.com/1890
electricghia.blogspot.com

Great choice of car, good luck on the project,

-Nick
Montreal, QC
PS. Paint the motor well and under the bonnet before installing components, that is my only disappointment. Oh, and sell the ICE engine while its still in the car and running... anything else and buyers will think you're trying to scam them.


----------



## Nicolas.Drouin (Dec 2, 2008)

creative1 said:


> And think its possible to fit all those cells under the rear seat of the ghia?


In a word: nope. 

And why put them in the car with you? There's plenty of room either side of the Warp9, or on the passenger side under the bonnet.


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Nicolas.Drouin said:


> In a word: nope.
> 
> And why put them in the car with you? There's plenty of room either side of the Warp9, or on the passenger side under the bonnet.


Why indeed! Well because putting the batteries where the rear seat is located will give your Ghia a better weight distribution and it will keep the rear from being overly heavy. All that extra weight behind the rear wheels will really throw that car around. I have taken my Ghia into such tight turns you'd never think it would handle it. Well the weight forward helps distribute the excess weight and having a few forward will help balance the vehicle. The forward rear bias is better than normal and more like the Porsche mid engined vehicles. It really does help. That area also is stronger and can handle the extra load. That is why. I don't need the rear seats for passengers and I don't think most folks who drive them ever really see passengers in the rear seat area anyway. It is basically a two seat sports car. I would put on disc brakes and upgrade the shocks. Maybe even put on full air bags for extra support. 

The Ghia is perfect for a small car. 

Pete : )


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Nicolas.Drouin said:


> In a word: nope.
> And why put them in the car with you? There's plenty of room either side of the Warp9, or on the passenger side under the bonnet.


Dang Nick, you have a lot of forward bias in that Ghia of yours. I thought you have more rear bias. Watch out in those corners. The car was not designed for that much forward weight bias. Some would be fine but that is a whole lot.

Pete : )


----------



## Nicolas.Drouin (Dec 2, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Dang Nick, you have a lot of forward bias in that Ghia of yours. I thought you have more rear bias. Watch out in those corners. The car was not designed for that much forward weight bias. Some would be fine but that is a whole lot.
> 
> Pete : )


I'm not sure I know what you mean Pete; how are you determining the bias? I don't believe I've published my axle weights, though I know them. They are proportional to the Axle Weight Ratings, almost perfectly.

Do you recall your stock axle weights? I neglected to get mine prior to conversion.

-Nick


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Well 8 of the 12 batteries is a very large portion of your battery weight and it is all on the front axle beam. Mine is forward of the rear axle and over the portion of the pan that is the strongest. The weight bias is just forward of the rear wheels which balances the weight better and keeps the weight off the front and from hanging out the rear. Even those batteries in the rear motor compartment are heavier than the stock engine and could in a tight fast turn toss the rear out into a dangerous situation. I am keeping my weight more center but still rear biased. The weight in my car is not over hanging the rear and I only have one battery forward of the front axle and three just behind the forward beam. Keeping the batteries there is best. Actual weight I do not know but I do know my bias is better situated. Still I have a bias that is rear orientated. 
More like a mid engined Porsche now. I have taken my vehicle into a very tight turn and I was very pleased at it's performance in the turn. 

Guaranteed that the stock beam has very little weight on it. Even my 4 batteries is more than the stock weight. My Ghia is the King pin/Link Pin and is much stronger than the ball joint beam. No worries about dropping a ball joint do to excess weight placed upon it. 

Pete : )


----------



## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Guess I was seeing those batteries wrong. I thought you had 12 6 volt batteries up front and it looked like 6 12 volt batteries in the rear. Still 6 12 volters in the rear is quite heavy to overhang back there. I'd rather have them forward of the rear axle and keep it more centered. The weight up front is high for those pressed in VW ball joints. I'd prefer the link/king pin setup. Much stronger.


----------



## creative1 (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good info. Nice to see so many ghia owners!

For now I ordered the LiFePO4 200AH x 45 through Dave. Should get here right when my break starts.

Pete: That was my reasoning as well for putting the batteries under the rear seat. I'll have the car soon, and finalize the battery placement.

Brian: I'm going for 100 mile range. I haven't looked into the Manzanita regulators to see exactly what they are capable of. However, after several recommendations, I've shifted my attention over to the Zivan charger as it seems like it fits my budget better. Will likely be buying a bunch of your balancers in the next few weeks.

Nick: Thanks for the info on the adapter and motor. I'll definately be going for the warp 9. And good to know there's lots of battery room if I decide its a necessity to keep the rear seat intact.

I've decided to hold out on the Zilla, as it seems like several other "better" controllers will hit the market within the next 2 months.

Thanks again everyone.


----------



## Guest (May 4, 2009)

I'm not sure about a controller "better" than the Zilla, but they are essentially unobtainable. Kelly's work pretty well but at high currents are basically liimited to 136 volts max in their 120v version.

I can tell you that you are a little over batteried. 200Ah Lithiums are simply huge. You will have a difficult time getting them into a Ghia. But if you can, you will definitely get your 100 mile range. 

Jack Rickard
1957 Porsche Speedster Electric
http://web.me.com/mjrickard


----------



## sunworksco (Sep 8, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Guess I was seeing those batteries wrong. I thought you had 12 6 volt batteries up front and it looked like 6 12 volt batteries in the rear. Still 6 12 volters in the rear is quite heavy to overhang back there. I'd rather have them forward of the rear axle and keep it more centered. The weight up front is high for those pressed in VW ball joints. I'd prefer the link/king pin setup. Much stronger.


 Porsche 996 rear suspensions are very reasonably priced at the recyclers now and provide one of the best suspension setups for a Ghia.These are 5-link suspensions and weigh very little and is easily resized for width.
This will even adapt to a www.vintagespyders.com Porsche 550.


----------

