# [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.

I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.

I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
places:

http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx

This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards. 

Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
supposed to do 50A locking plugs. 

Anyone have any background on how this happened?
-- 
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Years ago I worked as a commercial electrician. It has been my experience, 
even still, that any application that would need a L6-50 ends up using the 
one you specified simply referred to as the "CA Standard" which is a 50a 
grounded twist-lock.

My educated guess, is that this was formed years ago by the movie industry 
for portable/temporary power, and became the defacto standard before NEMA 
had a foothold.

It is used in all "spider boxes", many gensets on wheels, and at convention 
halls, stadiums, etc.

Here they are on the same site you provided a link to:
http://www.stayonline.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=2270

Personally, I use this on my charger and think it's a good standard. It's 
too bulky for residential use though, such as dryers, ranges, etc., where 
you need a low profile.

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


>I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
> time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.
>
> I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
> EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.
>
> I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
> designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
> of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
> is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
> exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
> places:
>
> http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
>
> This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
> a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.
>
> Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
> in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
> this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
> plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
> supposed to do 50A locking plugs.
>
> Anyone have any background on how this happened?
> -- 
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Chris the plug you are asking about is referred to as a 2 pole 3 wire 50 amp 250 volt twist lock . there are several manufactures that make it you should NOT check online go to your local electrical supply house and ask for it the way I described it and you will be able to get all you want . the trades very rarely use nema numbering system we rely on # of pole ,#of Wires , amperage and voltage . as we are used to mfg's all using different # systems . the main problem with that plug is that it does not make allowances for people who use 125volt systems . HOWEVER a 3 pole 4 wire 50 amp 250 volt twist lock does . the reason I would suggest that no one use a twist lock on a ev. connector is if one drove off without unplugging it will tear up too much on the car and the point of supply . 

what is needed is a inlet type connector on the ev and a round non twist lock with strain relief's on the supply side with the strain relief hooked by light duty chain to a secure point so if someone drove off with it connected it would go to the end of the chain and then the chain would pull the connector off BEFORE there is a strain on the supply cord . 

hope this helps . 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Christopher Robison<mailto:[email protected]> 
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.

I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.

I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
places:

http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx<http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx>

This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards. 

Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
supposed to do 50A locking plugs. 

Anyone have any background on how this happened?
-- 
Christopher Robison
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://ohmbre.org<http://ohmbre.org/> <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Check with various marinas that supply power to largish boats. The locking 
plugs are standard for "ship to shore" power. I was nosing around a marina 
surplus (used stuff) store a few months back and they had a 50 ft. 50 amp 
cord with what I assume were the L6 connectors on it. It was fairly well 
used (though didn't look abused - had a lot more life in it) but was at what 
I considered a ridiculously high price at the time. I was looking to cut 
off the L6 connectors and put on 14-50 for use with my motorhome (would also 
work well for EVs, but overkill for most). I think the marine industry is 
where you'll find a lot of the locking connectors you're looking for, but be 
willing to pay.

Dave


>From: Christopher Robison <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected], Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
><[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:17:30 -0500
>
>I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
>time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.
>
>I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
>EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.
>
>I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
>designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
>of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
>is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
>exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
>places:
>
>http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
>
>This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
>a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.
>
>Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
>in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
>this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
>plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
>supposed to do 50A locking plugs.
>
>Anyone have any background on how this happened?
>--
>Christopher Robison
>[email protected]
>http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
Capture the missing critters!** Play Search Queries and earn great prizes. 
http://club.live.com/search_queries.aspx?icid=sq_hotmailtextlink1_oct


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Christopher,

These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors and 
plugs if manufacturer build them. Some times a design engineer for a large 
project will request and put out to bid to build some of these NEMA 
designations for special projects.

My correct size plug for my EV is assign a MEMA L14-50, but is not available 
yet for general use. I am using a L14-30 heavy duty water tight twist lock 
Danual Woodhead plug and connector for over 32 years and it did not blow up 
yet. It has large set screws box lugs on it design to fit a 1 inch diameter 
with four No. AWG 6 multistranded wire.

I have No. AWG 6 conductor connected to both sides of this plug and going to 
a 50 amp circuit breaker. The distance that a 50 amp current would have to 
travel in this 30 amp rated plug is about 2 inches. So the design length of 
this conductor for that distance is able to handle a 50 amp short circuit, 
which has done many times and does not get warm while charging at 45 amps.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


> I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
> time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.
>
> I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
> EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.
>
> I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
> designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
> of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
> is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
> exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
> places:
>
> http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
>
> This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
> a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.
>
> Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
> in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
> this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
> plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
> supposed to do 50A locking plugs.
>
> Anyone have any background on how this happened?
> -- 
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 22:01 +0000, Dave Davidson wrote:
> Check with various marinas that supply power to largish boats. The locking 
> plugs are standard for "ship to shore" power. I was nosing around a marina 
> surplus (used stuff) store a few months back and they had a 50 ft. 50 amp 
> cord with what I assume were the L6 connectors on it. It was fairly well 

All of these are "California standard" plugs and connectors. Marinco is
a major manufacturer of these, especially for the marine industry. Their
products are usually correspondingly expensive. I've seen more
reasonable ones, from Arrow Hart I think(?) although at this size none
of them are cheap.

I have never seen anyone making or selling a true NEMA L6-50 plug.


-- 
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

_______________________________________________
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Christopher,
> >
> > These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Travis Gintz wrote:
> > here you go:
> >
> > Connector:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

See my link earlier to Leviton.... we're the manufacturer, and I just
looked at some 6-50R and P's and found them. Cooper makes them as
well. Take a look here:

http://www.leviton.com/
Go to product catalog, navigate to: locking devices and search around.
Or go to straight blade receptacles/plugs/connectors

They've got all sorts of locking and non locking plugs. They even have
a locking 50 and 60 amp connector, just not the L6-50R and P.

Thanks
Travis

On 10/29/07, Christopher Robison <[email protected]> wrote:
>


> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > > Hello Christopher,
> > >
> > > These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors and
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So you need a flanged inlet like this:
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=3864&section=10957

but with a 50A rating. I'll ask, there might be something hiding out there.

On 10/29/07, Christopher Robison <[email protected]> wrote:
>


> Travis Gintz wrote:
> > > here you go:
> > >
> > > Connector:
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I do not have a problem of ripping out the twist lock plug out of the 
receptacle. I am using the heavy super duty nylon connectors that are about 
6 inches long that is mounted in a industrial housing made by Power Anderson 
which are normally use for a 200 amp receptacle that is bolt to a heavy 
steel channel.

This plug uses a set screw box lugs and I use only fine strand wire, in a 
cable that is straight line (straight in connection). Before I install a 
interlock system, I have pull out the cable right out of the box lugs in the 
plug. What happens here as the wires in the cable are pulling out, it 
reduces the diameter of the wire inside the box lugs and its slips right 
out. I have a large strain relief on the cable, so it does not pull the 
wall receptacle.

To prevent this pull out, I install a on board 50 amp AC magnetic contactor 
that is held on all the time, while the plug is made. There is a extra power 
pole on this contactor, that is normally open while the contactor is close, 
this keeps the ignition circuit off. If I lose power, than a indicator on 
the dash plates comes showing that the plug is in.

This contactor was normally use as in a ground detection system, so if there 
is any rise of voltage that is conducting from any one of the battery 
terminals to the chassis ground while charging, then the GFI system will 
shut down the AC input power.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


>


> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > > Hello Christopher,
> > >
> > > These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > To prevent this pull out, I install a on board 50 amp AC magnetic contactor
> > that is held on all the time, while the plug is made. There is a extra power
> > pole on this contactor, that is normally open while the contactor is close,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

One simple thing that I also use to prevent the EV from rolling down a steep 
parking area, is pull out the wheel chocks, that I also carry with me. 
Don't like to depend on just the hand brake alone on a steep grade.

I made mine by cutting a piece of 4 x 4's at a 45 degree angle and applying 
5 grit sand paper with the glue on it that is use on floor sanding machines 
that I got at Home Depot.

I then put a yellow stickee note on the steering wheel to re mind me that I 
have it chock.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


>


> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > > To prevent this pull out, I install a on board 50 amp AC magnetic
> > > contactor
> > > that is held on all the time, while the plug is made. There is a extra
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > One simple thing that I also use to prevent the EV from rolling down a steep
> > parking area, is pull out the wheel chocks, that I also carry with me.
> > Don't like to depend on just the hand brake alone on a steep grade.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> 
> > What is needed is a round straight
> > connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into, somewhere
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That looks like a variant of the plugs that are in use
in Europe for high power, you often see them on
construction sites and in factories. 

I think the color codes the voltage level.
There are 3-wire, 4-wire and 5-wire variants.
(one phase, 3-phase w/o neutral and 3-phase w neutral)
They always have a ground pin IIRC.
They are held in place with the cover, so it not easy
to disengage when driving away by accident, that is
why this ambulance variant has auto-eject.
(start interlock when power is present is another way)

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?



> On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> 
> > What is needed is a round straight
> > connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Am I reading right that this needs a 12v or 24v (for 120v/230v models)
"operating" input? Take a look at the "ordering" page. Does this mean it
uses power when not in use?

Otherwise, looks like a really nice plug...

Hunter



> David Roden wrote:
> > On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> >
> > > What is needed is a round straight
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I get the impression that the 12v or 24v is for the ejection. A solenoid or
small motor drive, I assume. I doubt it is in constant use.

On 10/30/07, Hunter Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Am I reading right that this needs a 12v or 24v (for 120v/230v models)
> "operating" input? Take a look at the "ordering" page. Does this mean it
> uses power when not in use?
>
> Otherwise, looks like a really nice plug...
>
> Hunter
>
>


> David Roden wrote:
> > > On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> > >
> > > > What is needed is a round straight
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

A control voltage from a ignition source is only activated when turn on, it 
then ejects the plug at that time.

In my unit, a AC magnetic contactor, it uses commercial line voltage to hold 
the contactor coil on while the plug is in. This is only 0.02 amps for a 
240 vac coil. The 12 voltage ignition voltage is only present on one side of 
one of the power poles on the contactor and does not power anything at that 
time.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


> Am I reading right that this needs a 12v or 24v (for 120v/230v models)
> "operating" input? Take a look at the "ordering" page. Does this mean it
> uses power when not in use?
>
> Otherwise, looks like a really nice plug...
>
> Hunter
>
>


> David Roden wrote:
> > > On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> > >
> > > > What is needed is a round straight
> ...


----------

