# How much interest in a Leaf motor coupler



## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

According the other leaf motor coupler thread, looks to be quite a bit of interest. I might be interested in making couplers, but, need input. Exactly what shape, design would be favored by those looking for a coupler.

I do not have access to a motor, so, would need exact OD and ID of the shaft. Other things I can deduce from there.

1. How long
2. Type of interface on the face to match other couplers/shafts.
3.What about the other shafts. Does this venture require 2 parts. 
4. Drawings with measurements of design would be helpful.
5. A head on photo of a leaf shaft would help get this started.

I could get started very soon after a design was settled on.


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## zippy500 (Apr 3, 2017)

that would be great ! sure you would get a few orders

I might be interested in one


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

106 views and 1 possible maybe. In 3 weeks I will be in Florida with access to my metal lathe, milling machine, 2 bandsaws, and numerous hand and power tools. 

With no more interest than 1 reply, I don't see any reason to undertake making couplers, especially buying the broach and setting up a small production line. 

One can only try to provide needed items, sometimes with no input or responses.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

hmincr said:


> 106 views and 1 possible maybe. In 3 weeks I will be in Florida with access to my metal lathe, milling machine, 2 bandsaws, and numerous hand and power tools.
> 
> With no more interest than 1 reply, I don't see any reason to undertake making couplers, especially buying the broach and setting up a small production line.
> 
> One can only try to provide needed items, sometimes with no input or responses.


I didn't see this sooner, but I'd be interested.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

OK. Lets see how this thread plays out. I will need to know something definite so I can investigate the broach purchase. Of course, the more ordered the better the price for the couplers.


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## MattsAwesomeStuff (Aug 10, 2017)

Product development and marketing are difficult things to gauge.

When you asked the question you did, you are only reaching people who are here, who are at the narrow window in their build when they need, and know they need, this specific thing.

It might be a "If you build it they will come" item. If it's well known, mentioned in other threads and so on, that "When you get your Leaf drive unit, you buy a coupler from this guy and that's much of the hard work done."

It might be something that factors into people's choice of what drive unit to purchase "Well it's easy to get a Leaf coupler, this guy has them in stock, so maybe go that way" and more people start doing Leaf builds, for the small impact that a coupler would have on those choices.

It might just become an established thing over the next year or two you steadily work your way through your inventory as everyone doing a Leaf conversion picks one up.

But it might be a, you make it and no one ever wanted one.

You can probably guess at how many DIY Leaf-based builds are out there, and how many people are buying or hiring a fab shop to make the coupler, and, if yours can be done affordably there's a good chance you can pick up pretty much all of that custom fab business.

Hard to say. Business is a risk.

If you only want risk-less offers, then you've probably phrased this wrong. Perhaps ask "Pre-orders for Leaf motor couplers", and people can sign up, pay up, and then you buy the tooling and make howevermany. But then you better be sure you can make them, because you're committed. Or, you'll have to refund people and eat the cost of tooling/time/materials.


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

MattsAwesomeStuff said:


> you are only reaching people who are here,


Good points throughout, Matt. 
There don't seem to be that many Leaf builds on here. It seems that Tesla is the majority focus but they may just be the most "vocal". You could also ask this same question on mynissanleaf.com since there seems to be some activity over there as well.

The other thing hmincr, you are essentially asking someone to design the coupler and then offering to do the machining. The design work seems to be the more difficult step at this point, to my admittedly myopic view.

Bill


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

This is point one addressed. 


> But it might be a, you make it and no one ever wanted one.


Second point addressed. Designing to me is, does this need a flange to bolt another different spline coupler to. Does this need to be just a straight tube coupler , etc. Laying out and machining the splines is what I will be doing. 

I'm retired and on a fixed income, so, I don't have funds to squander for ' just in case'. I'm trying to get a reverse tadpole motorcycle built, so my wife and I can get groceries and visit a bit. I'm trying to stir interest in a controller that will operate an altermotor, so others can use them, as I try to convert motos where I live. 

I'm not looking to made 100's of these. If I can do maybe 15 or so, I would be happy with that. I'm not looking to get rich, just a few side bucks to help my project get completed, or, trading for others assistance on electronics, etc. would also be fine. 

If nothing comes of this, it won't be any skin off my nose. I'm just trying to part of a solution to further the revolution.


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

hmincr said:


> This is point one addressed.
> 
> 
> Second point addressed. Designing to me is, does this need a flange to bolt another different spline coupler to. Does this need to be just a straight tube coupler , etc. Laying out and machining the splines is what I will be doing.
> ...


Personally I would like a flange on it, but if you just make a tube coupler I could just interference fit it into a flanged coupler so I'm good either way.

For what it's worth, if I can get a coupler for this, I will take my motor down to Rinehart and get it characterized so that it could be used in the future with their inverters. So that might increase the number of people who use it.

I'm a little surprised at how few people are using this motor. It really is a great motor and can put out huge amounts of power.


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## steveob (Nov 10, 2017)

probably a good number just keep the existing gearbox, or steal the splines out of it.


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

Let's see if I can some of this stuff posted.

Here are a super close-up picture of the spline and a shot of the inside of the input shaft. I haven't done much picture uploading so I'm sure they could be attached better.

I measured 21.5mm OD and 19.0mm ID just a minute ago. My motor is in kind of a difficult to reach orientation right now, so someone else should back up those numbers.

In nearly everyone of the close up shots I have, the splines look like flat sided splines, not involute. 

Bill


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

Could you do a close-up of the motor shaft from the side to show what kind of shoulder, if any, there is and its diameter and length. Also,a shot of the center drilled hole in the end of the shaft.


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

I think this is what you are looking for. The first is when I was looking at the minimum distance possible between my motor and transmission. The other is with the Geo tracker clutch disk sitting on the shaft.

Bill


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Dedlast. Thank you for those photos. I understand the involute you mentioned, but, it's a little fuzzy to see the splined shaft photo. 

For talking sake, It appears they are 60 degree sides as opposed to 90 degree ? 

I don't do CAD drawing, but, I could make a test shaft, if need be, and would appreciate a more dead on shaft photo, as ElectroWorks has also asked for. 

I sent a PM to arber in Croatia/Latvia asking about possibly knowing someone that could obtain a clutch hub like he used and mail it to Florida. Of course, if anyone in Europe could do this it's a 2004 Fiat Multipla 1.6 Liter engine clutch disc. Just know out the rivets somehow and mail the hub. Will gladly pay for one or send a completed coupler if wanted. 

I'm still in Costa Rica and will be in Florida USA on May 30. THEN, I can seriously look for whatever it takes to get started on the spline cutting.

Meanwhile, lets try to get a head count on whoever would be interested, so I can also work on lowest possible pricing + Shipping.

I'm hesitant on going on other forums, just to announce the possibility of making these. Seems very tacky, so, I'm hoping to get at least 10 positive inputs on first round of possibilities wanted.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

dedlast said:


> I think this is what you are looking for. The first is when I was looking at the minimum distance possible between my motor and transmission. The other is with the Geo tracker clutch disk sitting on the shaft.
> 
> Bill


The 2 machined areas of the motor shaft, either side of the splines, could be used to locate a coupling. This way avoids using the splines by themselves to properly align and support the shafts. The splines are a poor choice to do this in this application.
Leaf Motor.jpg


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Really i am from Slovenia. I can get many of the stuff through UK. So here is the clutch...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-MUL...sh=item4d68fa1d87:g:57QAAOSwyGZaJgbZ#shpCntId

There are other OEM numbers to search for more...
I have seen they use the same profile also for Fiat Brava and Doblo. 
This actually belonged to Multipla 1.6l Bluepower that was made to run on methane gas. It had three large torpedoes under the car . 

Hope this helped. I gave my clutch to a friend to make a coupler for Johannes, so he could test Leaf motor and inverter software under real torque.

A


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

hmincr said:


> Dedlast. Thank you for those photos.


You're welcome.




> For talking sake, It appears they are 60 degree sides as opposed to 90 degree ?


See the attached photo. I got nearly 70 degrees on that spline and ~73 on the next one. I'm pretty sure that's an issue with the photo and lighting but I would still bet that 70 degrees would work fine. But then I'm only pretending to be a mechanical engineer. 



> I don't do CAD drawing...


I was struggling to get anything going in any CAD program until our ME at work introduced me to Onshape. It's a cloud based CAD program that has been much easier for me to get my head wrapped around. He told me it is a lot like SolidWorks.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Dedlast, that is an amazing photo. Thanks again. I am going to check out that CAD program you mentioned. 

My buddy down here works in a foreign car repair shop, so, I PM'd him that I'm looking for a Fiat hub like arber333 mentioned. Arber333, sorry I missed your country by a few degrees. 

Anyone from Europe, all I need is the center spline section from a clutch DISC. No need for me to buy a complete clutch kit to get this small splined hub. Just make sure it is from the correct Fiat Multipla, Brava, Doblo.


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## winzeracer (Apr 3, 2012)

Interesting, I am just working on an adapter for a customer. I 3d scanned the flange and have extracted the useful sections curves of the flange in Siemens NX, though NX is an unwieldily beast. Nearly ready to bring it back to solidworks. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks,
Brock


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

hmincr said:


> Dedlast, that is an amazing photo. Thanks again.


Thanks and you're welcome. All of my "micro-photography" is done with a Samsung S7 with jeweler's loupes of various powers centered over the camera. It works surprisingly well.

B


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## steveob (Nov 10, 2017)

fyi, from the old "estimate your frontal area" days, the least distorted image would be from far away via telephoto. But it sounds like y'all have found a good fit.

Or some sort of impression, that is cut flat and scanned.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

winzeracer, I sent you a PM, but, apparently they are not functioning, because I also sent one to arber333 and my sent messages box shows nothing sent to either of you. If you care to exchange emails, I would like to contact you. 
mine is hmincr at g mail
Harold


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## neighbor_vadim (Mar 27, 2018)

I would definitely be interested in a coupler. Kinda new to the ev conversion scene, but I definitely want to use one of these motors.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Trying to locate a splined hub to get a quote on a broach. Hang in there.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

hmincr said:


> Trying to locate a splined hub to get a quote on a broach. Hang in there.


I assembled my motor with insert coupler. One side has smooth shaft other has splines. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1001458&postcount=2047

Or here:
https://mazdamx3ev.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/sklopka-ven/

Main thing is i found bare lovejoy coupler pair with insert for some 60€. Then i cut out clutch hub with splines and made a seat in coupler. That way splines actually transfer torque without being welded. I wanted to avoid that so as not to weaken splines.
One could do the same for Leaf motor and transmission on the other side. This kind of joint can eat some missalignment and still be hardy enough.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

I follow what you did, but, I still need a splined hub. The particular car (s) that you referred to are simply not readily available in the USA. My Son is checking with inport car repair shops to see if anyone can offer a supply house to purchase a clutch disc. 



Those ebay links you provided all have a 3 piece kit and shipping all that would be almost $400.00, just to get a splined hub piece. I was offered a CAD drawing file for nearly that much, but, I simply don't have that kind of money to take a chance on moving enough couplers to recover my expenses.


There is no telling what a broach will cost. A splined hub would get me way down the road to pricing out product. I was hoping someone in Europe would assist me with procuring and mailing a hub, since this forum is viewed world wide.


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## arber333 (Dec 13, 2010)

hmincr said:


> I follow what you did, but, I still need a splined hub. The particular car (s) that you referred to are simply not readily available in the USA. My Son is checking with inport car repair shops to see if anyone can offer a supply house to purchase a clutch disc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh... in that case i recommend you find a machinist that can make you a splined hub directly from those couplers. I find them very sturdy cast steel. It may also be tempered. File draw shows shiny steel surface. 

In case you have some event it will also provide good sacrificial element so transmission or motor splines remain intact. 

In case you go through i recommend you make a loose fit in splines and cut the coupler in half. Then make M8 threaded hole so the bolt will tighten the hub. Like this or this.


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## electro wrks (Mar 5, 2012)

arber333 said:


> I assembled my motor with insert coupler. One side has smooth shaft other has splines. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1001458&postcount=2047
> 
> Or here:
> https://mazdamx3ev.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/sklopka-ven/
> ...




This type of coupling is great if the 2 shafts being connected are well supported by bearings. Electric motors are usually OK for this, but the transmission input shaft may not be. With your fingers, check to see if the transmission input shaft moves freely side to side. If it does, it means by design it is not well supported inside the transmission and needs the pilot bearing for proper support. And, not a good set-up for this type of coupling.


A loose input shaft, under load with this type of coupling, can move around excessively and cause damage to bearings and gears inside the transmission.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

This is exactly why I am trying to get the correct spline pattern, and add a flange for connecting to flange on transmission shaft with a possible bushing or needle bearing for support.


I have milling machine, metal lathe, bandsaws, oxy/acy torch, etc. in Fl, just waiting for me to get there.


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## dedlast (Aug 17, 2013)

hmincr said:


> I was offered a CAD drawing file for nearly that much, ...



Wait, $400 for a CAD file? Someone's really proud of their skills. What kind of guarantee were they offering that it would actually work?



B


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Said NEARLY that much. No other comment necessary.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

Well, except for the 3 people that offered up all they could, and not a single soul in the UK offering to assist a little with a clutch hub, even though I have offered payment for helping, and parts only available in the USA for years 2012 and up, this project is officially dead.


I have my own projects to work on, so, sorry Icouldn't make these couplers available.


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## CanadaLT28 (Oct 15, 2011)

Somehow I didn't see this before. I have 2 leaf motors that need couplers so I might be interested. Do you have any pics?


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## daleag (Jul 5, 2018)

*raises hand* 

I'm seriously considering picking up a local broken-down Suzuki Every 4wd kei-van for EV conversion... coupling a leaf motor to the stock transmission is an attractive option.


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## wootwootman (Jul 26, 2018)

Maybe if enough of us ask, he'll start it up again? I definitely need at least one to couple my EM57 to a Miata trans. Still need an adapter plate too, if anyone knows where I can find one


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