# Schism Hybrid Hot Rod (the Tailfeather Project reincarnated)



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

In the beginning there were two Jeg's seats, a Speedway track nose, and a Toyota Celica GTS rear differential...








It's hard to see in this blurry cell phone pic (forgot my camera), but the input shaft is forward, inside the track nose, at the front of the car. The motor will be mounted on top of the diff, and drive it via a belt, chain, or gear set up. That will allow me to fine-tune the ratios, and the stacked arrangement saves space under the hood. Those who have been following my antics long enough may remember that from a previous bright idea I had for building a second EV hot rod. One reason I love pursuing ideas is I usually end up using the designs somewhere, someday.

After seeing the seats together, taking some measurements, and building the *cockpit* a gazillion times in my head for the last eight hours, I think one of the regular production Jeg's roll cage kits is perfect - it's for a 49-53 Anglia/Thames!?! - so I may be able to order it and swing by and pick it up next week (Jeg's main retail store is right around the corner from our shop). That and a few sticks of square tubing and I'll have a chassis soon.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Picked up the roll cage kit from Jeg's today and did a quick mock-up to check the dimensions. A couple need tweaked, but it's going to be nice. I need to make some final decisions on the frame design so I can order the steel for it, and start building a hot rod. 








The Appleton steering rack also came today, and it is positively sinful! Very well made, and extremely quick - it's 1.5 turns lock-to-lock!  Better not sneeze!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Nothing major today, I just got the cage main hoop and halo tweaked a little, which makes the cage fit together much better. The bottom of the main hoop tucks in to the width of the (forthcoming) frame rails, and the halo is a bit narrower in back, which lets it hit all the way up on the main hoop.

























Here's a close-up of my little rack, and the front differential that the electric motor will drive.








A pause to celebrate the New Year, and next we purchase the rectangular tubing for the frame, and start building...

Happy New Year guys!


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Neat stuff, I really enjoy reading your design threads.

Do you have a bogey for the front/rear weight balance? How do you gear the front low but not over rev it when the gas motor winds out? A one way sprague? Any hopes for regen?


toddshotrods said:


> Nothing major today, I just got the cage main hoop and halo tweaked a little, which makes the cage fit together much better. The bottom of the main hoop tucks in to the width of the (forthcoming) frame rails, and the halo is a bit narrower in back, which lets it hit all the way up on the main hoop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Neat stuff, I really enjoy reading your design threads.
> 
> Do you have a bogey for the front/rear weight balance? How do you gear the front low but not over rev it when the gas motor winds out? A one way sprague? Any hopes for regen?


Thanks David! 

Ideally, would love to come up with 45/55 (f/r) weight distribution, but I haven't done any number crunching to verify that yet - just a hunch/wish. I'm aiming for around 40/60 with the regular kits (not hybrid - no electric drive system up front), and figure a small electric motor and the diff should get me a few points on mine.

I'll use some type of clutch, or one-way drive, on the electric motor to disengage it at a specified rpm. There are little 4.5" racing clutches that would be ideal for this, because they're made for high horsepower applications, and work best in an on/off environment.

I really want regen, but it will depend on what I end up with for a motor. My first thought on this was the HPEVS/HPG systems, but they don't have the power I want. A Warp motor could supply the power, but no regen...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Happy New Year! 

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on art with this project (like I did with the Inhaler) but needed one quick revision to check something. To achieve the desired body-to-roof ratio, and make sure that average-sized people can fit inside the kits, I needed more body. Rather than vertically stretch the body, I decided to add rocker panels, which are rolled under the tub a bit. The original Model Ts have running boards which extend down from the body (and to the fenders, of course), and roll out a bit. This is an artistic swipe at that, which keeps the distinctive shape of the shallow bucket body intact, but gives me enough surface area. The real shapes and details will be worked out as the car is built, according to the real needs, but this is probably close.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I know it's not your cup of tea around here, but we got the drivetrain pulled from the donor (the former Taileather Project). Now, we're laser focused on getting Schism on all fours next month. I'm still searching for motors for the electric front drive. I need an immediate solution for right now to get everything sorted out, and need to figure out what I really want up there.








DIYEC member CT Freeman (white EV Fiero-based concept) came out to help yesterday, and saw a wide open, liberated, engine compartment at this point - ready for an electric conversion.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

How many projects are going on here?

It's good getting the oily bits ripped out. Is that the engine that is going in the back of Schism?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> How many projects are going on here?...


Haha!  They're building up, but only because I have such a great team beside me. Our new female team member worked ten straight hours with me yesterday, and worked as hard as I did. 

The Inhaler is a company project now, so not really my burden, other than design and project supervision. Schism is mine, and I still plan to build Scratch, so I actually have two personal projects.





Woodsmith said:


> ...It's good getting the oily bits ripped out. Is that the engine that is going in the back of Schism?


Yup, that's Schism's engine now. I can't wait to get all that crap cleaned up - yuck! It'll stay clean from here on, because I'll actually be able to reach everything and see when something's leaking.

A guy on another forum posted this link - pretty cool, and fairly similar to the basic concept we have.


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> Haha!  They're building up, but only because I have such a great team beside me. Our new female team member worked ten straight hours with me yesterday, and worked as hard as I did.
> 
> The Inhaler is a company project now, so not really my burden, other than design and project supervision. Schism is mine, and I still plan to build Scratch, so I actually have two personal projects.
> 
> ...


also front - electric, rear - ice
*Philadelphia Highschoolers Build Hybrid Supercar*









http://www.treehugger.com/cars/philadelphia-highschoolers-build-hybrid-supercar.html
their site: http://www.evxteam.org/

Todd, what are your thoughts on benefits of such 2+2 dynamic-wise (launch, cornering, recup (kers)? also - on possibilities of electric supercharger, electrocharger (starter-generator, e-assist, etc : )) ?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I've seen that car before - pretty neat as well.



gor said:


> ...Todd, what are your thoughts on benefits of such 2+2 dynamic-wise (launch, cornering, recup (kers)? also - on possibilities of electric supercharger, electrocharger (starter-generator, e-assist, etc : )) ?


Launch it should be awesome. My plan is to monitor rear wheel slip (via the factory ABS wheel speel sensors) to control application of power to the front wheels. More slip, more aggressive throttle input, up to the max power. That's for straight line acceleration. Only time will tell what this is like in cornering, and whether or not I want to spend the time trying to develop data and programming for front drive in aggressive cornering. That's a whole different ballgame.

Initially, I will just be using the electric drive like a Prius - as an ICE supplement. Eventually, I want to increase the range and power so that I can drive the car on all-electric power more. One definite use is in city traffic. That allows me to have a race clutch, but putt around for miles in stop-n-go traffic with ease. Another is in quiet neighborhoods, like the apartment complex I currently live in. I can leave and return silently on electric power. I don't see any issues with dynamics with a low power system as it's just a boost to the ICE. It's just complementing it, and throttle mapping can be programmed to make this as seamless as possible.

The only practical application I have seen for electric super/turbo charging is as a low speed boost, to eliminate lag.

I would love to have regen, but the lack of commerically available 150kw AC or BLDC electric drive choices may force me to forget about it and just run a simple series DC setup for a while. Later, I would love to upgrade to a BLDC system up front and have regen - mainly for more aggressive braking on road courses, in my case; and for bragging rights (just to say it does regen).


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Now that the donor car is pretty much stripped, we're back to the chassis. We only worked on it for a bit today, but got the main hoop and halo bar fit and tacked. The A-pillar bars, dash and seat brace, and braces down into the front and rear frame rails are next.
















If you're wondering what's up with the wooden fixture, it's because we're also developing processes and techniques for educational purposes. The slots for the frame rails are CNC-cut and the fixture is leveled and really stable. The idea actually came from the AME SuperCar chassis kits, and the illustration they show of how it can be done with plywood and pine strips. We're not selling unwelded chassis or wooden fixtures; we just used the technique to demonstrate how modern technology can be combined with old school techniques in manufacturing. We're getting ready for an event with Ohio Department of Education in March and will pitch this as an example.

After this vehicle is on its wheels we plan to start fabricating a monster of a steel frame table for production.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Drag, Salt Flats, and road racing require pads under the roll bar (something like 6x6 inches for drag racing, and 1/4 inch thick (!) and 22 inches of perimeter for the Salt Flats). I hadn't really thought about in the context of a tube frame -- how does one meet that requirement?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Drag, Salt Flats, and road racing require pads under the roll bar (something like 6x6 inches for drag racing, and 1/4 inch thick (!) and 22 inches of perimeter for the Salt Flats). I hadn't really thought about in the context of a tube frame -- how does one meet that requirement?


In NHRA it's 6x6x.125 (1/8th)", I do remember seeing .250" thick somewhere, but can't remember which sanctioning body. My rule books are at the shop, so I can't look to see.

Anyway, to your question, the steel pads are for attaching cages to uni-body, sheet metal, chassis. It's because the sheet metal would fatigue and/or the cage tubes would punch through in a roll over crash. I used the pads on C.T. Freeman's Fiero cage, because it was mounted to the sheet metal "space frame" chassis. With factory full-framed, and aftermarket tube framed, vehicles NHRA and most (all?) rules insist that the cage be welded directly to the frame. In the case of vehicles where the main frame members are narrower than the cage hoops you can use tubular outriggers to extend to the hoop mounting points.

I designed these frames specifically for a roll cage. That center trapezoidal main box is to create, with the main cage bars, a sort of cell for the occupants. Then, the front and rear frame rail locations were determined to tie the suspension systems into that cell. There will be a lot of triangulation, up and down, front to back, and side to side.

*EDIT:*
IIRC, the NHRA spec for the plates is actually .118" thick. You start with thicker material to compensate for it thinning out when it stretches (e.g., forming the plates around the contours of the floor), bending cage tubes (outside wall gets stretched thinner). The cage tubes similarly start with .134" wall tubing (for mild steel) which is over the spec (I'll fill that in here later, when I get to the shop and look at the rule book).


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Looking Good Todd! Are you going to make a fiberglass roof? If you do, I might be interested in getting one from you for my T-bucket build.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Looking Good Todd! Are you going to make a fiberglass roof? If you do, I might be interested in getting one from you for my T-bucket build.


Thanks Mike! 

Yup!  We will hopefully be making the transition to bodywork in a week or so, and it'll be posted here. The roof will be a fun process because we'll be using a combination of newer technology and old school fabrication techniques again. Shoot me a PM or email if you like what you see, when we get to that point.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this thread and your progress!

Thanks



toddshotrods said:


> Thanks Mike!
> 
> Yup!  We will hopefully be making the trasition to bodywork in a week or so, and it'll be posted here. The roof will be a fun process because we'll be using a combination of newer technology and old school fabrication techniques again. Shoot me a PM or email if you like what you see, when we get to that point.


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Great start! A perimeter frame is a very adaptable platform to develop into a custom vehicle.

I have owned a chassis fabrication fixture for over 40 years. I just got rid of it last year when I retired. (sent it to the scrapper, no one wanted it.....).

It was 16 feet long and built out of 8" I-beams set 34 inches apart with 6 inch channel cross-members. It was LOW to the ground and had 4 scaffold caster wheels.

It was painted machinery grey with the top flanges unpainted. The beem centerlines were scribed and center punched for easy layout and measuring.

It had holes drilled in random places for attachments and you could tack weld things where ever you needed for extra brackets.

Over the years, It performed it's magic on many, many vehicles, both new builds and crashed racecars to be straightened.

Don't go flimsey or cheap! 

Miz


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

mizlplix said:


> Great start! A perimeter frame is a very adaptable platform to develop into a custom vehicle...


Hey Miz, thanks!  It's shaping up pretty well. It's a production-oriented design, and I'm testing the ability of moderately skilled workers to build them. The two that did most of the work on this chassis, so far, have natural skills, but practically no experience. The results are fantastic! I did step in on a couple critical areas, but those will be done on machinery, with dedicated fixtures, in regular production. I want them to learn the old school ways of doing things first - by hand, with patience. I also want them to have an understanding of what the machines are actually doing for them, not just be button-pushers.





mizlplix said:


> ...I have owned a chassis fabrication fixture for over 40 years...
> 
> ...It was 16 feet long and built out of 8" I-beams...
> 
> ...


I have a penchant for over-thinking, over-engineering, and over-building, things - so no concern there!  It's going to be a monster, that's for sure! Originally, I had planned for a massive, heavy-wall, rectangular-tube, main frame, with a .500" steel plate on top, with a grid pattern cut in it for layout work, and drilled for fixtures. After checking out a conversation on a hot rod forum, with some of the top hot rod builders, I am leaning away from the solid-top, table, construction, towards an open design. Probably still rectangular tube construction, but I do _love_ I-beam-based fixtures!

My chassis will be very similar to what they're building, and the open fixture designs allow you to work all through the center of the chassis, positioning and tacking crossmembers, braces, gusseting, brackets, etc. The other feature that is becoming more common is increased height - for the same reasons. Depending on what they're building, and personal/shop preferences, the heights seem to be in the range of 2-3ft high. Our current wooden fixture is 13" high and solid - it would be nice to have another foot, and better access in the center...

Another reason I plan to build an absolute monster is this first one will really be a development fixture. It will need to do a lot of things, accurately, and without excess effort. It is going to have rotisserie attachments that allow us to pull a chassis out of the fixtures, straight up into the rotisserie and weld it completely; plus some other interesting features. When we swing into full production mode, there will be two dedicated fixtures just for these chassis. That process will be more conventional where fabricators lay out and tack a chassis on the fixture, it gets pulled and moved to the welding room, where welders finish weld them on separate rotisseries. Then back out to assembly...

Work resumes this afternoon. I want to get the A-pillar bars cut, fit, and tacked in; the seat and dash bars tacked in. That may be a bit much for a half day, considering the fact that I am teaching more than working, but it's the goal.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We did work today, but I slowed the agenda down quite a bit. I'm teaching a couple of the Team members metal fabrication as we build Schism, and I'd rather take extra time to make sure they learn, understand, and develop good skills and habits. We got the A-pillar bars mostly cut and fit, but will finish them Wednesday.










This is representative of the quality of work they're doing - as they're learning. When we first started the chassis, I stepped in on the really challenging areas; tonight, I watched in amazement as one of the Team members carved notches in the tubing like she had been doing it for years.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Nice tubing fit! Thanks for the answer on the pads (BTW it's 1/4 inch thick for Land Speed.).

Did the team member use a hole saw to notch the tubing, or was it a hand grind?

As a guy that cuts and welds metal but is definitely still learning I really enjoy reading your threads and learning. How are you making sure everything stays square and level? Is the rotisserie just for ease of access, or will you try to do the welds on the top sides that way? That I'm aware cars are generally built with the wheels down the whole time, is it a hot rod thing to spin the chassis with a rotisserie?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Nice tubing fit! Thanks for the answer on the pads...


Thanks David, and np. 





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...Did the team member use a hole saw to notch the tubing, or was it a hand grind?...


The two that have been working on the roll cage wanted to learn metal fabrication, so I am helping them develop good hand-eye coordination, and tool skills, with good old-school hand grinding. The tools of choice are a 4-1/2" right angle grinder with cut-off, grinding, and sanding discs; a couple Sharpies, and a tubing notch contour gauge - _I_ cheat and use that ;-). I mark what I want them to cut, give them some instructions, and let them go at it. Both are learning fast, and the young lady I mentioned previously has really awesome tool skills. She has worked with her hands and with tools before, she just never did this type of metal fabrication.

We did use a metal miter saw to cut the straight front and rear rails, and I plan to slowly introduce them to the more advanced tools and machinery around the shop, including a tubing notcher and (eventually) even using a manual mill and fixtures to cut super precise notches. When we really get into serious production, I think most of this stuff will be CAD/CNC.





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...How are you making sure everything stays square and level?...


The wooden fixture was carefully leveled, and is checked frequently. We're using plain old levels, squares, plumb bobs, tape measures and straight edges, to make sure it's going together square and level. That simple wooden fixture is the key. It positively located the foundation (the frame rails) and everything follows relatively easily. We notched the halo bar, clamped it in place, and checked it - perfectly level the first time. That's because we eyeballed it, measured up from the frame rails on each side, marked it, and fit the halo bar to those marks - it naturally followed the level frame. Ditto on the A-pillar bars. I measured what I wanted on one side, duplicated it on the second side and it's following the level frame perfectly.

Another thing, on this particular car, is the suspension pick-up points are going on after the chassis is welded up. I'm doing some things on this car that won't be on the production cars, and will have special fixtures that mount to the chassis and locate the suspension pick-up tabs and brackets. That means we'll have a second chance to correct any discrepancies - which I don't plan to have.




DavidDymaxion said:


> ...Is the rotisserie just for ease of access, or will you try to do the welds on the top sides that way? That I'm aware cars are generally built with the wheels down the whole time, is it a hot rod thing to spin the chassis with a rotisserie?


Yes, the rotisserie is for ease of access. It's because tube frame and space frame chassis have so many angles and hard to reach areas. Even though a good welder can weld in nearly impossible situations, they'll be able to maintain the quality longer if the part moves more than they contort. On a serious race car, with tons of small triangulated areas, a rotisserie could be a must-have item.





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...As a guy that cuts and welds metal but is definitely still learning I really enjoy reading your threads and learning...


Thanks again, that's a nice compliment!  I get as much, or more, out of knowing that I have helped someone else as I do from the work itself. Seeing my team members learn and grow, and receiving comments like yours, keeps me going when I'm a little burned out, and gives me the motivation to even begin sometimes.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is such a nice set up and excellent work from your team.

Really makes me want to be able to do some work on mine. I had some thoughts but need to get them on paper somehow.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That is such a nice set up and excellent work from your team.
> 
> Really makes me want to be able to do some work on mine. I had some thoughts but need to get them on paper somehow.


Thanks Woody!  One step at a time buddy, you'll get back to it. I've been taking baby steps towards this point for the last three years myself. I sold my shop because it felt like a prison sentence, and slowly worked my way back up to having this one. The Inhaler Project's studio is much more than just a shop, and I am squarely in my element - providing design, knowledge, and experience to help others; with a better plan for profit to boot.

Maybe you can find an apprentice, who can help you organize and document your thoughts and processes. The young lady on my team has enough experience and common sense to question me when something I say doesn't make sense, yet she's learning a lot from me. As much as I love doing custom vehicles, the experience of helping them learn and grow is priceless.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd.
I have just returned from my referal interview to a local Arts On Prescription project. I am hoping that attending sessions there doing creative will help both unlocking the skills and raising the confidence.

They do fine art, ceramics, textiles, woodwork, gardening, photography (digital and old school), creative writing and some other things I think. No black smithing or air brush training though, I might find out if they can help with the air brush technique if I bought an air brush kit to use there.

Their wood shop is quite good and some of the furniture they have made is really very good. I was trying very hard not to 'assess it' for marking. 
Quite stressful getting that urge and being in the company of a 'class'. I'm not sure I will do the wood work yet as I could feel the anxiety rising while I was there. 
I think I will start with the art class to get my hand in.

They do 6 weeks sessions, one day a week, in each subject as desired and subject to availability, for 6 months. After that I may volunteer to work there, possibly in the woodshop if it has all been sucessful.

I am quite anxious but I am also looking forward to it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers Todd.
> I have just returned from my referal interview to a local Arts On Prescription project. I am hoping that attending sessions there doing creative will help both unlocking the skills and raising the confidence...
> 
> ...I am quite anxious but I am also looking forward to it.


Sounds great Woody - you always have a good plan!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Todd,
Where your round tube meets the top face of the square tube do you have a spreader plate welded between the two?

I assume that the open ends of the square tube will be capped off but is there anything else to take loads to the underside of the square or are you just using the vertical sides of the square tube.

I am drawing/sketching frame rails at the moment and have been working on the basis of drilling a round hole right through the square tube and then passing the round through it and welding top and bottom (and teh sides if the tubes are the dime dimensions) with a welded disc to cap the bottom of the round tube. Over kill? Less strong? Unnecessary work?
Cheers.


----------



## MJ Monterey (Aug 20, 2009)

After a financially induced break from EVs..... Subscribing.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Todd,
> Where your round tube meets the top face of the square tube do you have a spreader plate welded between the two?
> 
> I assume that the open ends of the square tube will be capped off but is there anything else to take loads to the underside of the square or are you just using the vertical sides of the square tube.
> ...


NHRA rules specify that the tubing be welded directly to the frame. Although I really like your idea, it would mean getting engineering approval for varying from the *ordained" path , so I am trying to stick as close to the rules, with Schism, as possible. Those cars have flipped and rolled, hit the walls, etc, and held together, so anything more is probably overkill - not that that's a bad thing (at least in my book)!  The Inhaler is going to need engineering analyses, documentation, and approval to run on sanctioned race tracks because I'm doing so much stuff *my way*. I just wanted Schism to be sort of universally accepted.

On your method: I think I would not pass the round tubing through the lower wall of the square tubing. That way it wouldn't be totally dependent on weld strength (not that that's a bad thing) and would have to physically rupture the steel tubing to completely fail. With it welded on top, as per the sanctioning rules, the weld has to fail, and the tubing has to shear through two sections of steel tubing (.120" wall, in my case), to completely fail. To really be catastrophic, for the passengers, it would seem that at least two corners, if not all four, would have to fail utterly, for the cage to collapse on them.

Yup, I am going to cap the ends of the rectangular tubing, and will add a central rib that extends into the tubing to add a little extra suport to the roll cage bars. I'll probably plug weld that on the other sides of the tubes. Except for the weight penalty, a little piece of I-beam would be nice in there. 





MJ Monterey said:


> After a financially induced break from EVs..... Subscribing.


Well, welcome back!  Pull up a chair, or grab some goggles and gloves, and get dirty!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Cheers Todd, I'm not racing so rules don't matter in the same way. I would like it to be survivable in a roll over at speed or if it is sideswiped by a truck though.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Cheers Todd, I'm not racing so rules don't matter in the same way. I would like it to be survivable in a roll over at speed or if it is sideswiped by a truck though.


Gotcha. Building to conform to rules can be a pain sometimes. I'm looking forward to doing a project, someday, that I can just do whatever I feel like doing - probably Scratch.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A few more pieces, here and there, and this puppy wil be ready to weld up! We're going to put the seat brace in, and a couple supports down into the front and rear rails from the main hoop and A-pillar bars, just to keep everything exactly where we want it when it comes out of the fixture.

The awesome team member I have been ranting and raving about finished up the A-pillar bars tonight. I just poked my head into the process every so often to see how she was doing, and answer her questions/offer suggestions. They fit perfectly...  Another member did the seat mount, and the video guy was back shooting again. He said he's going to try to shoot at least once a week now.








Because I refuse to be normal, my suspension pickup points will be done off the fixture, and mocked up at ride height, with steel fixtures that fit on the frame rails. I'm doing a pretty radical race suspension setup and need to get it down on the floor to make some final decisions.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm trying to keep the focus here on the actual build, and not so much art and design, like the Inhaler Model E's thread, but will have a little art to guide the way, here and there. The art that the Schism rendering is based on is for the kits. It dawned on me today that I never lowered it from the standard production ride height, to _my_ ride height (3-4", f-r). I did that and also, replaced the side exit exhaust tips with air intakes for the radiator and intercooler, channeled the exhaust out the back, and added the rear cage bars.









We're back to work on it next week, after a week off to work on the Model E. The plan is to get the chassis off the fixture soon, and start skinning it with bodywork.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I find it a great help watching how you are setting up and progressing the build.

I have been setting mine up based on the wheels, motor and transmission system with a box for the pack location.
Seating has always been an aside in the set up in the past with the idea I will make seats to fit.

You are building up with the seats in place and I guess I should get some seating made up at some point to work the chassis around.

I am currently washing my pile of Lego Technic to build a scale model of the trike to then draw from.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I find it a great help watching how you are setting up and progressing the build.
> 
> I have been setting mine up based on the wheels, motor and transmission system with a box for the pack location.
> Seating has always been an aside in the set up in the past with the idea I will make seats to fit.
> ...


The Inhaler Model E was all the way on the other extreme, even of your method with your trike - I concentrated on the body first, then started figuring out what would fit under it for a drivetrain (which led my to EVs), then looking for somewhere to fit in it myself! 

Schism is being built this way (occupants-out) because it is painfully obvious that the average person wouldn't be too crazy about stuffing themselves in a no-compromise race car, so kit sales would likely suffer unless I designed purposely to accommodate normal people. As you point out, I have been building around those two seats from the beginning. The rack & pinion was the first actual purchase, but the seats (2nd purchase) were the first thing in the shop. That was to force me to build the car around them.

I wanted to cut that cage down to just a few inches over the seat backs so bad!!! Done my way, the seats would have dropped in between the frame rails and the cage snugged right down over them. That would have also required narrower seats and a more radical layback angle, to get enough clearance for a helmet and padding on the roll cage tubes. It just snowballs from there, into something like the Model E. 

It's still very small, but it is a play toy not a daily driver luxury car. Be advised that designing around seats and people will compromise your aesthetic goals. I just challenged myself with making what must be look good.





Woodsmith said:


> ...I am currently washing my pile of Lego Technic to build a scale model of the trike to then draw from.


I want to see pictures...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Okay, here I go with more art...  I promise to back it up with some build pics next week.  I have been working on a second roof option for the kits for quite a while, and finally came up with something I like. The original "Rag Top" style roof screams Model T, but is an aerodynamic nightmare for people like me, who want to push the speeds towards the upper limits. Schism will have this roof, styled after the 26-27 Model T Coupe roof. It will also be an option for customers.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Todd, that's awesome. A coupe style roof is what I was originally planning for my T-Bucket. My T will have a 28 grill, hood, and cowl, so I will be loosing the pinched in cowl of the 23. I also like your extended doors.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Todd, that's awesome. A coupe style roof is what I was originally planning for my T-Bucket. My T will have a 28 grill, hood, and cowl, so I will be loosing the pinched in cowl of the 23. I also like your extended doors.


Cool, I was wondering which roof you would like more, when I posted that last rendering here.  I've thought about losing the pinched cowl on the production kits, as it would really help with foot space, and aero. Maybe we'll have that as yet another option...

Edit: I forgot, the larger doors are an absolute necessity with a low roof on a bucket body. I'm not really sure they'll even be enough for larger individuals. We start skinning the chassis with bodywork soon, we'll see...


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Yup, I like the coupe roof! The extra foot room is the reason I was going with the '28 cowl. I can't wait to see your progress...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Work will resume now that the Model E has been stretched, and has received its carbon fiber clone of the fiberglass body. That means the fiberglass body goes to Schism, as shown mocked up here.

















We'll be using the old track nose from the Model E as well, with a shorter hood. The new model for that has been created, with better lines for the track nose and shorter span, so more CAD/CNC foam will happen soon.

















We'll do a little tweaking on the cage, and can now begin adding parts. We had to have a body to locate them.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I've been waiting for this update! Cool to see some more progress.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I've been waiting for this update! Cool to see some more progress.


Thanks!  It's getting exciting, because it will really start to become a "car" now.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm curious, what's the sign on the roll bar say?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I'm curious, what's the sign on the roll bar say?


"Do Not Poke Me, Thanks Mgmt" Lol!  The facility we're in is part community workshop, and there are always people around, peeking, and sometimes touching, things out of curiousity. We had to suspend work on the studio, to get the hot rods ready for an event on the 7th, so we don't have doors to lock yet. We use impromptu signs to ask people to look, but not touch, our work, because things are often carefully mocked-up - one, ill-advised, touch away from us having to start the whole process over.

There's one on the Model E that says something like, "Please do not poke, shake, kick, etc.", because the body is literally hanging from one clamp in back.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Last night we welded the frame and main cage. Schism's chassis is now blocked up at ride height on the floor, beside the Model E. Unfortunately, I forgot to take my camera yesterday, so pics of that won't happen until later tonight or tomorrow. Until then here's one where I was making patterns for the roof and turtle deck.








We're starting on the suspension and drivetrain now. Before the end of next week, it should be a roller with wheels, suspension, and engine/trans. Still haven't found a motor for the front, but I think I have resolved the issue of what it will be - 8-9" series DC. I want a motor that I can abuse for "launch assist". I have to mount the front differential, so I will probably make a cardboard mock-up motor to fill the gap until I find one. I also blew the motor budget on other parts, so I need time to replenish that.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Cool, So what's the height of your A post anyways... Looks good... can't wait for more pics..


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It looks so tall and grown up now! Taller then the Inhaler!

The black and white gives it an interesting vintage two tone look.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Cool, So what's the height of your A post anyways... Looks good... can't wait for more pics..


Thanks Mike. I forgot to measure it, but I think about 12" (will confirm later). I resisted the temptation to do a serious chopped top look, and tried to give it more "T" like proportions. The higher roof allows larger individuals to stuff into one, and the rocker panels will be a play on the deep running boards of the original T's, and help preserve the basic shape of the shallow bucket bodies.



Woodsmith said:


> It looks so tall and grown up now! Taller then the Inhaler!
> 
> The black and white gives it an interesting vintage two tone look.


It is taller, but nowhere near as much as it appeared to be on the fixture, see...








The black and white makes them look like a couple of antique cop cars, to me. Just need a bubble gum machine for Schism's roof. Model E is a high-speed pursuit vehicle. 

Wheelbase should be around 104" (4" less than the Model E). This ride height is unique to my car (as is the suspension setup I'm using). Production cars will be nearly twice as far off the road.


























This works really well for the electric drive system, but it raises the center of gravity, so I'm not set on it. There would be room for a 9" motor, as the track nose is too low in this setup.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Would there be space to couple the motor right onto the nose of the diff or do you need the space and the ratio options with indirect drive?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Would there be space to couple the motor right onto the nose of the diff or do you need the space and the ratio options with indirect drive?


I'm going to need the ratio options, to get the desired low-end boost from the motor. I am going to try running the motor behind the differential, and offset as far to the right, and as low as possible, today. The issue is whether or not it interferes with my pedal space. This issue is unique to my car, and I don't care about infringing on passenger foot space (she shouldn't be that big, or have feet that big, anyway ). It's just a matter of not compromising my driving needs.

I was kind of burnt out mentally yesterday, so I didn't think about it until after I got home and looked at the pics. I don't know whether there is enough space between the differential and the front crossmember of the frame's main box. There appears to be in the pics, but I don't have a straight side shot to really see the length of the space.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I really like the lines of the door and roof!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I really like the lines of the door and roof!


Thanks Mike!  I can't wait to actually open one of those doors, climb in, buckle up, and rocket away!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We didn't really accomplish a lot today, but what we did do was significant. We now have the engine and transmission on the frame. Tomorrow, the engine guru and I will start sorting out what needs to be where, and I'll be able to fabricate mounts and lock them down. They're going to be solid mounted, so I can shake people's fillings out. 

The wheels are just propped up - no suspension yet.
































Gotta get bigger tires in back...



Woodsmith said:


> Would there be space to couple the motor right onto the nose of the diff or do you need the space and the ratio options with indirect drive?





toddshotrods said:


> ...I am going to try running the motor behind the differential, and offset as far to the right, and as low as possible...


I think there're definitely enough room to do this Woody. I didn't have time to experiment with it today, but I think it will work. I can put the controller and charger right over the motor and diff - just have to find somewhere to put my gas tank now. In the (non-hybrid) production cars, the gas tank and battery fill that space.


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

Todd, i'm so glad that your work, your babies and kids - all comes together
that's absolutely great project and part of life - of all of you (inc. babies) : ))) take it all on video - inspiration for all of us

about frame - you have bottom part - what are your consideration on space-frame part? reinforcements, triangulation, etc 
do you have drawings, calculations (solidworks?) on shism and inhaler?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

gor said:


> Todd, i'm so glad that your work, your babies and kids - all comes together
> that's absolutely great project and part of life - of all of you (inc. babies) : ))) take it all on video - inspiration for all of us...


Thanks gor.  The professional video guy has been shooting footage for the documentary, pretty regularly. We had intended to shoot a lot of amateur (but still HD) video to share online, but all of our efforts have been focused on meeting a couple deadlines lately, so there hasn't been time or manpower to do that. We will soon.





gor said:


> ...about frame - you have bottom part - what are your consideration on space-frame part? reinforcements, triangulation, etc
> do you have drawings, calculations (solidworks?) on shism and inhaler?


I had originally planned to develop the entire chassis in CAD, but backed away from that because there are just too many choices, too many possibilities, too many variables. Rather than spend countless hours trying every conceivable option in CAD, I decided to just build a car, the old school way, and reverse engineer what we end up with into CAD. Once it's all in CAD, I can find the weak points and develop all the structural reinforcements that are necessary; and run everything through FEA...

That being said, the layout of the main frame was developed in CAD, so the foundation is already digital and ready to build on. To meet sanctioning body requirements, certain aspects of the roll cage must be what has been dictated (even if CAD says there's a better way) so there was no need to spend time doing that in software right now. Later we will figure out how to reinforce and maximize the potential of that mandated structure, with CAD software.

The G-bucket cars are being designed around the occupants, as much as possible. They're still cramped, tight-fitting, little toys; but the driver and passenger are the point - more than ultimate performance. That dictates what is actually built, and software will be used to make those compromises work as well as possible. That is the exact opposite of the Inhaler Model E, where performance is everything, and people must fit in what's left, after maximum performance mandates. The Model E's main frame is also in CAD, but it is just a simple ladder frame right now. Anything and everything that's added to it will likely come from CAD.

I work in Pro/Engineer right now, for serious stuff (Rhino for surface modeling/digital mock-ups). I am considering going to SolidWorks eventually, as everyone and their mamas use it now.


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> Thanks gor.  The professional video guy has been shooting footage for the documentary, pretty regularly. We had intended to shoot a lot of amateur (but still HD) video to share online, but all of our efforts have been focused on meeting a couple deadlines lately, so there hasn't been time or manpower to do that. We will soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you, Todd
i see - after final fitting all components frame will be customised and fit and built around it
what the method of estimating frame weight (and estimating performance) on planning - choosing components stage: such and such weight of motor, batteries, etc will take such and such frame (frame weight)? generic (similar) frame +-X? what are your estimation for I. and S. frames?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

gor said:


> thank you, Todd
> i see - after final fitting all components frame will be customised and fit and built around it...


Sort of... The frame and roll cage are already set. They were designed around squeezing two _normally sized_ people in the car. The component choices and locations, similarly, will be based on fitting the people in the car. Once all that is done, we will reverse engineer what we have (remember the frame and cage are already set, so just adding components) to see where we can reinforce it and how strong and rigid we can make it. Then, we will use CAD to streamline the production processes; with as much as possible done by CNC machinery.





gor said:


> ...what the method of estimating frame weight (and estimating performance) on planning - choosing components stage: such and such weight of motor, batteries, etc will take such and such frame (frame weight)?...


Decades of experience - three, personally. Most of this has been done to death, and that information is all readily available. It's just a matter of developing exact combinations, and those are always compromises based on personal or company preferences. In this case, it's totally about delivering a very unique, very rewarding, experience to the customer, from first sight to last ride. Every decision is based on accomplishing that. You have to start with an end in mind, keep it in your sights, and it will guide all the necessary decisions.





gor said:


> ...generic (similar) frame +-X? what are your estimation for I. and S. frames?


Not sure what that means?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Working on the suspension today, in CAD. I'm using Rhino because it's accurate enough for the simple brackets we need, and faster/more flexible than doing it in Pro/E. I'd probably have the models done and ready to cut, but I forgot to measure the width of the lower control arm frame pivot bushings. 









The yellow lines are two options for the shape of the brackets. I like the slightly larger, more shapely, version on the right. In the perspective view, you can see the main frame assembly, with extrusions (the size of the pivot bolts) running to the front and back. Those are the axes of the front and rear pivots.

I'm just working on the lower control arm brackets right now. Because of the *special* nature and intent of my car, I need to see everything on the car to proceed with the upper mounts. I have more components and clearance issues to deal with than a regular production kit. Another example of working backwards into CAD, from a real-world application.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

CAD design for the lower control arm brackets is done. The little *teeth* are position markers. The brackets are marked for positions 1-8, front-to-back; with a corresponding number of slots for the respective position. This is the foundation of establishing the suspension geometry I want, at the ride height I insist on. The challenge still lies ahead in locating and confining the roll centers to tight, neat, little spaces.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Had to step back a bit, as having the brackets laser cut was prohibitively expensive, and was going to take much longer than we have to get them done. So... I revised the design backwards to the simpler version, and then backwards again from my typical 3D work to simple 2D vectors. We will use these to cut patterns on the laser at the shop (can't do steel or thick metals on it). Those patterns will guide our hands in cutting and shaping the sixteen brackets, the old school way.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

They don't look too different, Todd.

Maybe a little time with a disc sander on the straight edge would put the curves back without too much effort.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> They don't look too different, Todd.
> 
> Maybe a little time with a disc sander on the straight edge would put the curves back without too much effort.


They're smaller, made out of narrower steel pieces, so there won't be anything to curve. 

Of course, I have a plan. I've already started working on it in CAD, but don't have enough done yet to share. It will be done by hand, but I'm using CAD to develop the plan. I want to close the top of the mounts in with a sculputured piece of steel. It will add the curvature of the larger mount, but in 3D, so it will ultimately be even better.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The laser-cut patterns are ready to go. I'm always surprised at how much smaller this stuff is in real life, compared to what I see on my screen in CAD, no matter how much I do it.  Now the work of cutting and grinding them out begins, which makes me happy they're pretty small. I also eliminated some of the trickier (to cut) curves, so just a few snips and grind them down.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahhhh, so the notches are just numerical positions of each piece and each one is different to set the geometry!

Took me a while to figure that one out.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Ahhhh, so the notches are just numerical positions of each piece and each one is different to set the geometry!
> 
> Took me a while to figure that one out.


Yup!  Now hop over here and help me crank out sixteen of these!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

To restore the aesthetic value - actually enhance it - I decided to do a sculptured filler plate. The production cars will have the other style brackets with flat, slightly rolled, filler plates, top and bottom. This gives me a chance to play a little with my own car.  It just a simple piece of steel, hammered into shape and welded to the sides. The filler plates box the mounts for rigidity, and this particular style restores the weld area I lost with the simpler side brackets and, as mentioned, enhances the aesthetic.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We split a couple pieces of angle with the plasma cutter to get enough .1875 x 2" stock, marked the bracket lengths and the location of the 16 pivot holes, and drilled the .625" holes (all 16). Today, I will carefully cut the corners that mount on the frame rails, probably on the big band saw. Those are the two critical aspects, that set the geometry of the suspension. I can do the profile cut with the plasma cutter, band saw, right-angle cut-off - whatever works best.

The plasma cutter burns the Sharpie lines away just as you cut, but they stay there long enough to see where you're going. That's cool because they would need a rough clean up after that, then the patterns can be re-traced for final shaping. We could scribe the lines, but I prefer the ultra fine point, black, Sharpie as a guide for rough-cutting. The blade on the band saw is pretty wide, so turning those tight radiuses on it is probably not going to be possible. We could do a series of straight cuts and sand down to the lines though. I'm considering using layout dye for the final shaping, but that's probably overkill for this application.

Sorry, no pics. We were running short on time and I just didn't think to grab the camera. I'll get some today.




Woodsmith said:


> Would there be space to couple the motor right onto the nose of the diff or do you need the space and the ratio options with indirect drive?





toddshotrods said:


> ...I am going to try running the motor behind the differential, and offset as far to the right, and as low as possible, today. The issue is whether or not it interferes with my pedal space...





toddshotrods said:


> ...I think there's definitely enough room to do this Woody. I didn't have time to experiment with it today, but I think it will work. I can put the controller and charger right over the motor and diff - just have to find somewhere to put my gas tank now. In the (non-hybrid) production cars, the gas tank and battery fill that space.


Woody, this looks very promising. I have the body hung where it goes on the chassis now, which gives me room to squeeze the cardboard tube where the motor would be (off to the right, and behind the diff). I have room for the pedals, and the motor pokes through a few inches into the cabin area - a fact that I would fully exploit.  The motor would mount directly to the right side front frame rail - neat and strong.

I tried my cardboard mock-up Soliton 1 - its looks awesome floating over the motor and diff - nice eye candy for when the hood is open. A Soliton 1 is probably perfect for this application, as I'm not sure I would want more than a 1000 amps through the front wheels anyway. Even with short-long arm suspension and equal length shafts, torque steer has to become a factor at some point. I also just want enough assist until the rear tires bite, and the turbo engine comes on boost. Around town, in "Prius mode", there's no doubt that relatively high (numerical) gearing, and 1000 real amps of Soliton-induced torque will move a 1500lb car well enough to "keep up with traffic". 

Now I just have to figure out where to put the battery pack and fuel tank!?  I'm am getting ready to hit the CAD workshop to try this combination, and see how many cells I can squeeze in the floor, and where a fuel tank might possibly fit. Probably have to do some kind of split fuel tanks, like some Ford pickups use; and maybe even a split battery pack. Just like the Inhaler Model E, this is an exercise in how much stuff Todd can cram in a tiny little package! 

Again, I forgot to take pics - they're coming...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks good, the flat to round fillet piece. Give a nice touch.

Glad to hear the motor will fit and it would be an elegant solution keeping the weight low. The Soliton 1 over the top would be real eye catching eye candy. Just what it needs there.

Can't wait to see the mock up photos.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I had to get in the CAD shop today, and figure out whether I was designing myself into a limited use vehicle, due to poor electric range and poor fossil fuel range. Batteries and fuel tanks can't be an afterthought, and all the recent changes have completely eliminated most of the original spaces I had planned for them. Again, this is an isolated issue for my car, because of the hybrid setup.

I was worrying for nothing. I have enough room to squeeze in 36 of the Turnigy battery modules (I just used them because I already had them modeled - I'm undecided on battery type and composition so far), and about 7 gallons of fuel. That's more than enough for everything I plan to do with this thing. After 300 miles, I will want to get out for a while.

(The engine is just an old mock-up deal I had laying around the "shop" - gotta model a proper Honda engine-shaped group of blocks someday )








It's amazing how much stuff you can cram in such a small vehicle, when it has been designed for the intended purpose from the beginning. Of course, like the Inhaler Model E, the downside is *no* cargo space - a light jacket and a fresh pair of underwear better be enough!


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

!!!
gear shifter & tank? central tunnel? how low seats? 
can it show weight distribution?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

gor said:


> !!!...







gor said:


> ...gear shifter & tank? central tunnel? how low seats?...


Shifter goes right in front of the seats, raised about four inches off the floor. The seats are mounted directly on the frame; but my cheap plastic seats have an air gap between layers that raises the seating surface about an inch, plus padding.

There's no central tunnel; no need for one, nothing to send through it .

The shifter cables snake right through the gap between the seats (the seat bases are a little narrower than the seating area, leaving a little open space between them. I had all this mocked up, and the shifter and steering wheel fall right into my hands. It's pretty comfortable (to me), for such a tiny cabin.

The fuel tanks are the yellow boxes under the seats, and under the intercooler and radiator.






gor said:


> ...can it show weight distribution?


Nope. I have both types, but I am not doing this in the engineering grade software. Most of what you see are surfaces (no real material depth), not solids, so I can't assign values to them (material type, weight, thickness, etc).

This software doesn't have advanced analysis capabilities. It can do simple things like area of a solid. For example: the fuel tanks (yellow boxes) are actually solids, and the software could give me the area of the boxes, in cubic inches, which I could convert to US gallons to figure out when I had enough fuel capacity.

Later, I will replicate most of this in Pro/E, where I can do more advanced analyses. I'm just doing digital mock-ups right now, and Rhino is faster.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I finished marking the patterns on the steel bar today, using the pivot holes to locate the patterns, and a square to locate one edge of the pattern with the outside edge of the bar stock; then tape it down, and trace. I really just went to the shop to unwind, relax, and change my mental state, today after fighting with a pesky car problem yesterday and today. I got it fixed today, and drove it across town to the shop to test it - worked perfectly, and spending a couple hours in the shop laying out my designs in real life worked perfectly on my mental state. 









I cut one, just to test the plan (using the big vertical metal band saw) - that works perfectly too. Not so much clean up work to do afterwards. I forgot to cut the position markers on this one though.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Looks good, Todd.

Just wondering, the rear suspension mounts look like they are ahead of the driveshafts. Are the arms asymetric and sweep backward, or do the driveshaft sweep forward, or is it an optical illusion in the 3D drawing?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Looks good, Todd.
> 
> Just wondering, the rear suspension mounts look like they are ahead of the driveshafts. Are the arms asymetric and sweep backward, or do the driveshaft sweep forward, or is it an optical illusion in the 3D drawing?


Thanks and good eye, as usual Woody.  Yes, the arms are asymmetrical. The rear pivot is directly inline with the shaft, and the front pivot is ahead and that part of the arm will sweep back towards the balljoint.

You missed something though.  The front is the mirror image of this, with the front pivots being inline with the driveshaft, and the rear pivot section of the arm sweeping forward to the balljoint. 

We'll see how well I am able to make all this work when it hits the asphalt.  I am using the entire front drivetrain from my old Accord (Tailfeather) in the back of Schism and this is basically how the Accord suspension was done. I'll be fabricating rod-ended, tubular, pieces that replace the strut rods, and make it a conventional A-arm type structure. Mirror image again on the front. That was to give me drive hubs, with a matching wheel bolt pattern, on the front - without spending a fortune or countless hours to accomplish it.

I have to tweak the Accord short-long arm front suspension geometry to work on the back. In front, I am chopping the tall Accord knuckles down and basically designing my geometry. Should be interesting. The production cars will use a much tamer, commonly available, Mustang II setup on the front. It's a very popular hot rod and kit car front suspension, with custom and replacement parts available from tons of suppliers.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahhh, that makes sense.

In the images the front doesn't look as lot of line as the back and I just assumed it was the perspective of the drawing.

Make sense to use the same parts front and rear where you can for this.

I agree the more popular Mustang II makes sense for the the production run. If you didn't use it people would ask for it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I love CAD!  Even being hand cut from CAD/CNC-laser patterns these things work so nice. One of the team members finished them up, and today I did a preliminary test fit - perfect. I cut spacers from scrap tubing, assembled the brackets and spacers on a piece of .625" threaded rod, cleaned measured and marked the frame and they practically dropped into place, and the level is dead on. 
















Tomorrow all four front mounts (eight brackets) will be positioned and welded, and I will start working out the upper mounts. Then, on to the back, and the drivetrain mounts...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks good! I see you use the same type of car jack as I do for leveling up in the workshop.
I get mine free, or for pennies, in junk sales and car boot sales.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That looks good! I see you use the same type of car jack as I do for leveling up in the workshop.
> I get mine free, or for pennies, in junk sales and car boot sales.


Thanks Woody.  Mine are from vehicles I've owned over the years. I love them. They fold nice and flat, fit in impossible spaces, and the screw let's me get pretty precise adjustments.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Some good old manual machine work to balance out all the CAD/CNC stuff, and cut-n-grind metal fabrication. One of the team members is machining a pair of Accord knuckles down to accomodate Schism's custom front suspension geometry and the electric drive system.

















The top will be drilled and tapped for a big rod end. Eventually, I will also replace the lower ball joint with a custom spherical ball pivot.

Eventually, these knuckles will also go through hours of hand finishing to make them look like they dripped out of one of my CAD programs.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Now, I'm trying to reclaim my car. This whole idea was born out of the fact that the original Inhaler, which we now call the Model E, had taken on a life of its own and I wanted something that was "mine"; that I could do whatever I wanted with. In the process of designing a relatively low-budget car for myself, I realized we could market them as kits - and the snowball started.

There were supposed to be two cars going together at the same time. One was to be mine, that I could go whereever I wanted with; and the second was to be the actual first prototype. With only my car going together I find myself back in this familiar position of sacrificing what I want for what the business needs, and it's beginning to feel less and less like something I would build for myself.

Gotta fix this. Until I figure out how, expect to see a lot of focus on some of the little parts that are uniquely "Todd".


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

First steps to getting back on track were to shed the bodywork, and get on with the chassis. (If you're waiting to see that particular bodywork develop, don't worry, it's still the designated production G-bucket skin and will be back on the front burner soon.) The lower control arm mounts all just dropped into place, and are now tack-welded onto the frame. The engine and trans are in close proximity, and ready to become formally associated with Schism. We start on the upper mounts and engine/trans mounts tomorrow... 

























It's also geting some slightly beefier rubber in back tomorrow too.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's gonna be some tall rubber going in the back!


----------



## FWD (Feb 3, 2012)

first time look at this tread.
mm i see a ice??
it is going to be a hybrid?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That's gonna be some tall rubber going in the back!


Goofball!   You're lMG didn't show up, at least for me. By the URL, I assume it was a huge tractor tire. You really expect *me* to build a car that has jackstand height clearance?! 





FWD said:


> first time look at this tread.
> mm i see a ice??
> it is going to be a hybrid?


You didn't read the thread title or the thread dude! Yes, it's going to be a hybrid - pure electric drive going on the front wheels. That yellow cardboard cement form in the front is where the electric motor is going. The differential, laying on the floor, between the front frame rails, is for the electric drive. The custom machining on the knuckles is for the front drive. 

Don't worry, I won't make you look at too many awful ICE pictures. This thread will be mainly about the electric drive, but there will be an occasional pic of that dreadful fossil-fuel-burning beast in the trunk.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Goofball!   You're lMG didn't show up, at least for me. By the URL, I assume it was a huge tractor tire. You really expect *me* to build a car that has jackstand height clearance?!


It just looked like the chassis was 'jacked up' for a reason and then you mentioned bigger rubber!
Yeah, the image was a tractor!

I wonder how the power distribution will pan out with the ICE and the motor running with different size rubber.
I can imagine inhaler rear rubber on it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> It just looked like the chassis was 'jacked up' for a reason and then you mentioned bigger rubber!
> Yeah, the image was a tractor!...









Woodsmith said:


> ...I wonder how the power distribution will pan out with the ICE and the motor running with different size rubber.
> ...


I've been anxious to see how that works out since the Tailfeather thread. We have access to some pretty serious software guys in the community shop. I'm imagining a stepper motor on the pot box driven by software that can alter the electric drive's throttle input according to what's going on with the ICE. So, drive-by-wire for the electric system. When the whole system was the other way around, on Tailfeather, I was thinking about drive-by-wire for the ICE to trail it off as the electric system ramped up the power. This makes much more sense. 




Woodsmith said:


> ...I can imagine inhaler rear rubber on it.


That's the goal. I'm starting with something a bit smaller today, to fit on the rims I have. Later, I'll either get new rims that allow me to put some really wide tires in back, or have two of these widened for it. Getting positive offset front wheels and negative offset rear wheels in a lightweight matching set usually means expensive two or three piece forged wheels. I actually want them, but my budget dictates widening two of these for a while. Right now, it says be happy with narrower tires than you really want.  They're the same diameter as the Model E's rear tires though, and there are no fenders to fit inside, so it's a simple upgrade, someday.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Progress was slow today, lots of little problems, but we got the new tires on the back and made a quick fixture from the tops of the Accord strut towers and some scrap pipe. This will help us set the rear suspension up, temporarily. It will be good enough to drive on for a bit, while I work on the design for the real setup. The pipe fixture over the motor will be discarded.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

In my quest to reclaim my car, I decided to remove satisfying sanctioning bodies from top of the priorities list. I'm still going for outrageous performance, because that's "me", but I'm not building a car to suit their rules to do it. I'll find other places to test and enjoy it, if they won't let me in their venues. I don't plan to run in any programs, so I may still be able to get persmission to do exhibitions and private testing.








No permanent, spec, roll cage - it'll have retractable roll bars, and probably a bolt in funny car style cage for competition - similar to the plans for the Model E. It's obviously much, much, lower. It's obviously a roadster, instead of a coupe. Other than that, it's the same car just chopped, sectioned, and seasoned to taste. 

One change I did make in the art, that I will probably do in real ife is the grill. I switched from the traditional Inhaler Project track nose, to a CAD/CNC, billet, Model T-shaped grille. It would be black anodized. I want to do it, but have to see how that space looks after I get the differential and steering rack mounted.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm about five hours into what will likely be 50-100 hours of CAD time, to develop the Model T-inspired grille for Schism. I would like to cut this from a solid block of billet, but will have to see how that plays out. My friend's CNC machines have been pretty busy lately, and this would have to be on the machine for quite a while. I also haven't figured out exactly what caused the issues on the rear motor mount, and this piece can't have any flaws like that. I haven't had similar issues with any of my CAD stuff on any other machines, so I have to figure out what's happening from my software to his. We're getting one at the shop, but no set date for that yet.

In any event, I will cut a wooden mock-up, when the model is far enough along, that can also serve as a casting plug, if necessary. If you haven't already noticed, the front-drive differential is visible through the grille opening. I want either a full CAD/CNC-cut acrylic panel or, better yet, a carbon fiber panel with an acrylic or glass window in it. Also thinking about a center-hinged split hood that would allow a full view of the electric drive system. Since the re-design, I will probably have to rethink the controller location. The motor and differential will probably be right up to the hood now,


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Wouldn't you have a controller cooling radiator in the nose? Seems a good place to put it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Wouldn't you have a controller cooling radiator in the nose? Seems a good place to put it.


Since there will already be a radiator, and cooling ducts, in back for the ICE, the controller cooling will also be there. With the low profile of the body, and interior space already accounted for, that may be the only place a controller and EV electronic stuff will fit anyway; especially if I go with a Soliton 1. I'm not so worried about the longer cable runs to the motor on this car, because it's a lower power setup than I was considering on the Model E. Tesseract said they had controller to motor cables about the length this car would need on their dyno, when testing that controller; with no issues.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Whoa Todd, I miss a couple weeks and things change again... I think you just like to keep me guessing... Laugh...

Well, it looks like your still making forward progress. And that's good news. I like the new grill design... I can't wait to see what else you cook up for your projects.

Thanks for sharing!


I'm about ready to start glass work on my T body. I'm using a '28 grill and hood, and I'm stretching my '23T Tub with a '28 cowl. I will probably take a shot at a coupe roof while I'm at it, and see if I can make it work...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Liberated of the tall roll cage, body, and roof, Schism is now a cool little roadster; ready for lots of cruisin'


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A little more work on the motor mounts and we'll be on to the suspension. I can't wait to have it rolling around, and see what 1.5 turns, lock-to-lock feels like.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Rigid motor mounts?
That would lead to a lot of vibration going into the chassis, surely.

I do like the cageless look.

The front has grown on me too, I was just getting comfortable with the Inhaler's look on Schism but they are different cars and I hadn't really considered them looking different.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Rigid motor mounts?
> That would lead to a lot of vibration going into the chassis, surely...


Yup, a ton of it. Beside the rigid mounts the suspension will eventually be all rod ends (rose joints, I believe, to you), and remember the steering is 1.5 tuns lock-to-lock. The seats will also have miminal padding. It's a race car, with lights and license plates.

I will say that this particular Honda engine is pretty smooth. In the pictures the two small pulleys on the engine are balance shafts - two of them. My engine guru wants me to get rid of them, because it's worth 5hp, but I'm keeping them; plus, I'd like to balance the whole reciprocating assembly when we build the serious turbo engine. So, even though there will be vibration, it won't be overbearing - just enough to constantly remind one what lies under the right foot.

The electric drive will also all be solid mounted, though that would be more like amplifying a whine, than vibration. It should still be one helluva sensation, with everything transmitting directly through the chassis, sunshine warming you up, and wind noise blasting your skin and ears. 





Woodsmith said:


> I do like the cageless look....


Thanks Woody - I love it, love it, love it!  There will be retractable roll bars for the street (electrically raised and lowered - eventually), and a bolt in funny car style cage for serious performance.





Woodsmith said:


> ...The front has grown on me too, I was just getting comfortable with the Inhaler's look on Schism but they are different cars and I hadn't really considered them looking different.


It's funny because it's having the same effect/reaction on/with the Team. They're slowly warming up to it, and it's all because they have to get used to anything other than that radical track nose and fairings. I've always had a few designs in mind so, for me, it's just a matter of seeing another one of them in real life. I wanted the kit cars to look similar to the Model E - have our brand identity - while still allowing it to be the "ultimate". I want Schism to be a totally different animal, aesthetically, but technically based on and proof of the company's products.

Today, a guy that runs a print shop out of the complex is printing the hood and nose for me to test and verify the design - before I dump a hundred hours of CAD into them. I flattened the surfaces, kind of like unrolling them, and sent him the vector (outline) files. We'll cut them out and UN-flatten them, hopefully into shapes close enough to my CAD models to get an idea of what Schism's snout will look like. Pics should follow tonight...

I'm toying with ideas for something "different" in place of the standard turtle deck. Nothing concrete yet, and so far the turtle deck is still the plan, unless I find something really awesome.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Whoa Todd, I miss a couple weeks and things change again... I think you just like to keep me guessing... Laugh...
> 
> Well, it looks like your still making forward progress. And that's good news. I like the new grill design... I can't wait to see what else you cook up for your projects.
> 
> ...


Hey Mike, I don't know how I missed your post, but I did. This is just my car. The production kit cars will still look like the other mock-ups (with cage and roof) and the original renderings. If you still want that coupe roof we're still developing it on a new chassis. If not, and you roll your own, l look forward to seeing what you build. I'm looking forward to seeing your project anyway. 

I just wanted something more radical for the appearance of my personal car, so I decided to split it from the production mule, and build two cars instead of one; a proper Todd's hot rod, and a production style hot rod for the masses.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Still picking away at the motor mounts. They're far enough along to support the motor now. It's perched on the frame with them, and without the assistance of jacks or blocks. We have about 23 hours in them so far, working a few hours here and there on them. I expect about 50 hours, total, to get them completely roughed in, and another 20-30 hours to "finish" them. That won't be done until after some real world testing though, to make sure they don't need to be cut up and modified.

This is Todd's kind of hot rod stuff! 

I also freed the upper control arm mounting bushings from the sections of sheetmetal we cut from the car. They have a double flat, tapered, design that locks the pivots into the chassis square and allows the nut to be tightened without affecting the orientation. I like the design, so I decided to use it; at least for now. I _hope_ to have them welded into the tubing, and possibly the strut mounting plates fabbed, by the end of the week; _here's hoping_...

From there it's just a matter of making a final decision on the exact geometry I want in back, and they can be welded into the chassis. Then I have forward sections of the lower control arms to fabricate, and rear tie rods and brackets, and the rear would be ready to roll. Simple.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Now that the motor is actually sitting on its mounts, I am turning my attention to the rear suspension. The goal is to get it rolling, and sort out any issues before finalizing any of these parts and systems, in case changes are needed to get everything in sync.








There will be an upper frame rail tube running where that short piece is, and parallel to the level. The most elegant solution for the upper control arm mounts is to weld the bushings right into the tubing, but that also pretty much locks my geometry, so I have to be certain it's really close to what I want. I'd still be able to adjust the camber because I plan to eventually replace the upper ball joint with a rod end or spherical ball; and I can adjust the anti-squat and make minor roll center adjustments, with shims between the "eye" and the bushing.


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

I learn a lot from your posts. The pictures are great. I'm loving the rate of work and progress. You are giving us a front row seat to see all those hours of planning, tweaks, changes, and design goal trade-offs taking shape.

I think the reason some of us are slow to warm to a new design change is that we don't have the same vision of your ideal. As the details emerge, the idea warms if we see how everything integrates and flows. A great design may seem off at first and then become more brilliant once you understand it. A poor result would be for an idea to seem good at first and then become tired, dated, out-of-place, or contrived. I don't think that will be a problem with your project.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Joey said:


> I learn a lot from your posts. The pictures are great. I'm loving the rate of work and progress. You are giving us a front row seat to see all those hours of planning, tweaks, changes, and design goal trade-offs taking shape.
> 
> I think the reason some of us are slow to warm to a new design change is that we don't have the same vision of your ideal. As the details emerge, the idea warms if we see how everything integrates and flows. A great design may seem off at first and then become more brilliant once you understand it. A poor result would be for an idea to seem good at first and then become tired, dated, out-of-place, or contrived. I don't think that will be a problem with your project.


Thanks Joey!  I enjoy my projects more when I can share them with people, so I'm really glad that Schism is accepted and appreciated here - I love this forum! I can't wait to get more of this project out of my head and into tangible form, so you guys can see what I see. Schism is going to be a neat little hot rod, if I do say so myself.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The resident (of the complex we're in) sign shop printed the flattened 3D models and I assembled the posterboard mock-up grille today. I like. Looks worthy of a 100 or so hours of CAD time to me.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I love the way the image looks like you have a child's pedal car version of Schism!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I love the way the image looks like you have a child's pedal car version of Schism!


Lol! I didn't see that, but it does! 


The bad thing about building a vehicle from scratch is the list of things to design and do seems endless. The good thing about building a vehicle from scratch is the list of things to design and do seems endless. 

My intentions were to work on the rear suspension today, but after a half-dose of Benadryl to stop the mucus flow, I wasn't in the right mindset or mood for that, so I decided to do something more creative (read fun). A bit earlier I had a discussion with someone about shifter cables, and the cost, so I figured I would see if there's a way to not have 14ft long custom cables made and hope that they wouldn't feel disconnected and sloppy, or worse. I realized pretty quickly, in spite of the Benadryl, that I could simply use rocker arms and shift rods to run back from the shifter to the stock cables.

Here's the factory shifter. I _thought_ I was just getting ready to modify the base a little and add mounts for Schism's chassis. 










However, a few minutes later it looked like this:








Remember the idea was to do something creative (read fun). I decided to toss the old sheet metal base and design and fabricate a new one that would hold this assembly, plus the rocker arms. I don't really know where I'm going with the design yet, other than the fact that it will be completely exposed - no boots or covers. I'm really planning to push my preference for artistically expressed function to the limits on this build.












While letting the design of the shifter assembly stew, I started working on the front cable end mount. I cut the mount from the factory shifter base, cut a couple pieces of angle, and started shaping them. This is all going to be MIG welded together and blended to look like a cast piece. With the radiator, turbo, exhaust, etc, you'll probably never get a good look at it, but I'll know it's down there!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was thinking you would go the whole hog with a rod and bar linkage!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Okay, you might need to sit down or hold onto something for this one!  Since splitting Schism from the production kit car development needs, and gaining the freedom to go anywhere with it, I have been experimenting with how far I can push the minimalist theme. I love the idea of there being open visual access to many of the individual components we spend hours upon hours making. The earliest, turn of the 20th century, automobiles were extremely raw like that. One feature that I'm exploring is many of them didn't have doors. They had a cutout, or dip, in the bodywork where there would be a door, but not an opening door.








The front and rear drivetrains are completely exposed, and presented as functional art. To permit full exploration of the ridiculous power I plan to have, I also came up with the idea of a formed, bubble-top, polycarbonate, roof to seal the cockpit. 

On the actual building side of things, countless hours have been going into design and fabrication of little parts that may or may not be seen, even if I follow this minimalistic, open, theme. Yesterday we tried to get the holes bored for the rear uppper control arm mounting bushings, but broke the collet and got it stuck in the mill. That will resume when we free it and devise a new plan for boring the holes. I'm also getting the fiberglass body buck ready to make another carbon fiber body for Schism. Only time will tell if it has doors, or not. 








The guy in the pic is the resident metalworking mad man. His company is named Metaldelphia.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I like the doorless look!

Not so keen on the bubble top, maybe due to the 'all or nothing' sunshine we have here.


----------



## gor (Nov 25, 2009)

take door off (like in jeep) - you have no-door, hook it on - u have it : )))))
why don't have several types of panels - so everyone can choose unique special look (or customise, change or put their own panels) 
to me - car w/o skin looks much better (well, some shells does look good, but anyway)
btw. they say: in open, exoskeleton-only Atom, wind blowing through the car over your legs leaves strong impression ...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Hmmm, I didn't get notification of either of these posts. I must have accidentally turned it off, gotta check that.



Woodsmith said:


> I like the doorless look!
> 
> Not so keen on the bubble top, maybe due to the 'all or nothing' sunshine we have here.


Thanks Woody!  The more I look at it the more sold I am on it - I think it's a keeper. 

The bubble-top would only be for high-speed racing, to seal the cockpit area, for better aerodynamics. That wouldn't even be made until much later. I have to think through every angle and possibility, to have peace with a design concept. 





gor said:


> take door off (like in jeep) - you have no-door, hook it on - u have it : )))))
> why don't have several types of panels - so everyone can choose unique special look (or customise, change or put their own panels)
> to me - car w/o skin looks much better (well, some shells does look good, but anyway)
> btw. they say: in open, exoskeleton-only Atom, wind blowing through the car over your legs leaves strong impression ...


Thanks gor!  This isn't for the production kits. They won't have that choice, they'll have real doors and a fixed roof to cover the roll cage. This is just for my one-off concept car, based on the production platform.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Here's how the upper rear control arm mounts will work. On top, there will be a raised countersink for the nut to sit it. I'll probably turn the upper edges, and roll them. I think I am going to MIG weld these, for the extra build-up, and then blend them, so it rolls up into the countersink.









On the bottom the actual control arm mounting bushing will protrude a little bit to give a flat surface for the pivot eye.









Here's a look at the shifter cable bracket. You can also see the front motor mounts. All this stuff is getting MIG'd, and blended, to look like old cast parts.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

While I wait for the mill to get back up and running, I am working on the fiberglass body, preparing it to serve as a plug for another mold-less carbon fiber body. Actually, we will probably lay-up a fiberglass skin first this time (maybe S2), because I have a lot of mods I want to do before doing the carbon lay-up. So this one will probably be a carbon fiber/fiberglass/foam composite part. Carbon fiber on the outside for the marketing potential (until we get around to covering it with filler) and carbon fiber on the inside for permanent cool factor. 








I'm using joint compound over foam to fill and shape the corners, because it's easy to work with and easy to remove afterwards.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The hood-less, trunk-less, door-less, totally open theme and bright red color weren't meshing well to me. The transitions from section to section were too abrupt; pretty harsh. Some people like stuff like that, but I prefer more organic transitions. I've been staring at the photos for quite a while now trying to decide which features I valued most. The open styling won - the red has to go. 








The body will be raw/exposed carbon fiber. Contrast will be in the myriad black finishes, wood, and brown leather for the carbon fiber seat pads.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Regrouping, re-tooling, re-focusing, to get the chassis work back on track. A lot of my initial ideas would take longer than I want to wait, so I have been in my mad scientist la-bor-a-tory devising new plans. In the meantime, one of my team members got the front knuckles finished so we can get the front suspension sorted out now. It's a Honda Accord front knuckle cut down, machined flat, then drilled and tapped (.750-16) to use a rod end in place of the upper balljoint. This is the first time the front wheels have actually been connected to the chassis. I finally get a good idea of the front track width.

















I think the new plans will be written in stone, new parts and supplies will be ordered, and the cutting and grinding will resume, next week.

I still haven't located a used 9" forklift motor for the eletric front drive. I may have to budget in a new Warp 9 and Soliton 1 for it. I was thinking about a battery pack the other day, and throwing numbers at my iPhone's calculator, and came up with a 300v, 1200a, 5.4kwh, pack, that I figured would provide about 20 miles (at approx 200 watts per mile) of city driving, for about ~100 pounds, with composite cases. That was based on the specs for Ron's cells; 3 paralleled sub-packs of 81 cells in series. 150lbs for a Warp 9; 50 for the Soliton, charger, wiring, etc; 100 for the diff and axles - round up to about 500lbs for the complete EV drive system.

Not bad because it fits the overall power to weight ratio goals of the vehicle, so it definitely adds to the whole package. Normally hybrids don't make sense because the weight of the combined drive systems kills the performance and efficiency of both. The solution: just get rid of the rest of the car, so all you're driving is a frame to connect the two!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's another good land mark, Todd.

Now the plan is getting fixed you can concentrate on the presentation details.


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Are you going to be able to use the electric motor mount you made a while back (the one out of aluminum with all the great curves)? I'm looking forward to seeing how you integrate the controls of a hybrid. As always, we are left wanting to see more of how it will all turn out.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks guys! 



Joey said:


> Are you going to be able to use the electric motor mount you made a while back (the one out of aluminum with all the great curves)?...


That motor and mount are still going in the Model E (the original "Inhaler"). One of the team members has been working on the bodywork. We're planning to get back to the chassis and drivetrain soon, and mounting the big GE motor is número uno on our list of priorities. I'm trying to find a good deal on a used 8 or 9" forklift motor for this car (the Model E's GE is 11" diameter). 





Joey said:


> ...I'm looking forward to seeing how you integrate the controls of a hybrid...


That's going to be fun. We're still trying to find the right "fit" for a coder on the team. There are quite a few around the complex our shop is housed in, but not the right one for us, so far. We're getting ready to increase the stream of interns coming to the project from local colleges. Ideally, we'll find someone through that program.


----------



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Joey said:


> ...I'm looking forward to seeing how you integrate the controls of a hybrid.....


The Soliton controllers are pure torque controls, and since torque is always additive it should be quite easy to smoothly integrate the two drivetrains. If you want the electric motor to always assist the ICE then calibrate the throttle for the Soliton so that it uses the entire pedal travel; if you only want the electric motor to kick in above, say, half throttle then calibrate the zero position for the throttle with it held at the halfway point.

Shouldn't require a PhD candidate to figure it out, regardless


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Tesseract said:


> The Soliton controllers are pure torque controls, and since torque is always additive it should be quite easy to smoothly integrate the two drivetrains. If you want the electric motor to always assist the ICE then calibrate the throttle for the Soliton so that it uses the entire pedal travel; if you only want the electric motor to kick in above, say, half throttle then calibrate the zero position for the throttle with it held at the halfway point.
> 
> Shouldn't require a PhD candidate to figure it out, regardless


That's helpful information. Initially, it will probably be as simple as Tesseract suggested - simply wiring it up and calibrating the throttle to provide electric assist for the first half of pedal travel. A simple dash switch to enable or disable the electric system, and then full manual control.

Ideally, I will be using the electric drive in a few different ways, and thinking of the Soliton as a torque control really helps. My initial thoughts are to use a small "controller" to control the throttle input to the electric drive. That's the software part. I haven't figured out whether that's via a stepper motor controlling a throttle pot, or something more direct that can output the required signal. It will read throttle input, whether or not the ICE is even running, and wheel speeds, to determine exactly how much throttle is applied to the electric motor controller. In other words, if my right foot is trying to knock a hole through the floorboard, the ICE is running and rapidly increasing in RPM, and the rear wheels are spinning, it would ask the motor controller for full assist from the front wheels. As the rear wheel spin starts to taper off, and vehicle speed increases, the electric drive would begin to taper off, until it's completely off. That's "launch mode".

For "city mode" (creeping around town, and in traffic), the ICE would be idling or preferrably off, and the hybrid controller would directly link the throttle to the motor controller, providing the ability to drive on full electric power. As speed increased, and the ICE comes on line, the hybrid controller would start to back the electric drive off again.

The thing that would take a tremendous amount of programming would be to figure out how to make the electric assist help the vehicle rotate around corners. That would require yaw and roll sensors (and possibly pitch), and probably computer-controlled ABS to help determine which front wheel does the work. I don't really see us getting around to this, but who knows?

The launch assist is just a matter of throwing enough torque at the front wheels to counter rear wheel spin. The city mode is just a matter of linking the controller directly to the throttle, whether by software or by a simple switch. In either case, the reason the electric is tapered off as speed increases is it will be geared for launch-assist and city driving.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The CAD grille shell is finally ready for some type of CNC process. I haven't decided what that process will be yet. The most elaborate would be to clamp a 6" thick piece of billet in a mill and whittle it down to about 5 pounds  - I seriously doubt that's going to happen this time!  Too many other things to do to spend that much money on billet, and that much time in front of a mill. The next option is to mill a plug out of wood, wax, or plastic, and have it cast - that's the most feasible plan. A third alternative is to print it in plastic and have it cast. We have a new 3D printer coming that would do a nice job, but it would have to be printed in, maybe four, sections and glued together.








The other problem with 3D printing is the transition between the outer rolled edge and the front panel is supposed to be a subtle concave rolled surface. I left the model as is, to save time, because the ball end mill will automatically leave that surface. If it's printed I need to either create that surface, or fill it in by hand after printing.

The little stand on the bottom is for the emblem. Rather than being perched on top, it's going to "float" in a recessed pocket in the grille.

Some suspension parts and composite supplies arrive Monday and Tuesday, and we get back to work on this puppy.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

...and with my "Bat-T" logo emblem mounted. I still haven't decided how I'm going to float the "T" in the ring. The choices are a peg stand under the bottom of the T, tabs to the "wings" of the "T", or a clear or smoked resin center. It will most likely be 3D printed and cast in aluminum or bronze, and anodized or plated. Maybe something a little brighter to contrast with the black anodized shell and black grille.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I still haven't decided how I'm going to float the "T" in the ring.


Given your performance goals you could switch to using superconductors and have the "T" levitate over a cloud of evaporating liquid nitrogen.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Given your performance goals you could switch to using superconductors and have the "T" levitate over a cloud of evaporating liquid nitrogen.


That would work nicely with the briefcase-sized nuclear reactor people around the shop have been suggesting to replace those pesky batteries.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I have some CAD/CNC foam bucks to do for Schism, and still have to do a full CAD version of the Model E for CFD aero work, so I decided to hack out a rough draft of Schism's door-less body, from the Inhaler Project T-bucket body model I'm working on, and see what it looks like on the chassis, with the grille. Eventually this body model's kinks and wrinkles will be smoothed out, and the original Model T details incorporated.








A little balance will be added with the air intake system for the cooling and induction systems. It will be designed to look like twin luggage trunks, just behind the body. They should bulge out just enough to fill in the gap between the body and the ICE drivetrain, rear suspension, and rear wheels. That's the main foam cores I need.

I also figured out that I want to use a short 9" motor - the Netgains Impulse 9 is perfect. That will allow me to center the motor and keep it completely in front of the body. In the Model E, people can fit inside the body, with the original firewall. In the kit cars we're planning to extend the firewall forward under the hood to push the pedals forward and allow for bigger, more comfortable, seats and/or taller drivers. It finally occurred to me that none of that is necessary with Schism. The seats only need to work well and look great; comfort is not a serious consideration.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Finally got the S2 shell laid-up. I like these one-layer skins because I can bend and shape them very easily. When I get it set and braced, I am going to use canned foam to add beads and inner bracing, then make it rigid with more glass lay-up. When it's strong enough the outside with be straightened and detailed, then skinned with a layer of carbon fiber, that will be the final finish (with a satin clear top coat). One day, I hope to pull a mold from it and produce a lighter, stronger, perfect version of it, but for the foreseeable future this prototype will suffice.








I can't wait to show the details I have planned for this body.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

My single layer S2 body shell, without any means of support. 









The reason I like these thin skins is I can subtly reshape them, without losing the basic identity of the Model T body. Because the skin actually has the compound curves of the original body, it can only be stretched and tweaked so far before it objects. In CAD, or with raw materials, I can make almost anything, and it's easier to lose the basic form. Those original curves reflect light to your eyes in a familiar pattern, that your mind identifies as a so-and-so...

A simple wooden inner structure props it up, and allows the process to begin.









Then I start sculpting. The main goal was to bow the back of the body, to give it a more upscale feel.

















The dash is also going to be very unique, but the details won't be incorporated for a while. The bead that runs around the top edge of the body will seamlessly roll around the door openings, and up over the dash.








I stopped here to refresh and look at it again before starting the foam and structural reinforcements, because I don't want to do it twice. I can't wait to see it with the seats and dash.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

In that last pic, there is a poster board mock-up motor in front of the body - that's an 11" diameter mock-up motor. That's the size motor that's going there - as in my 11" GE SepEx motor, that was in the Inhaler Model E!  We scored a 13" series-wound motor for the Model E! 

I'm thinking about using chain drives on each side, mainly for symmetry, to a jackshaft, that will drive a sprocket driven differential. That gives me lots of opportunity to tailer the ratio, and the chain drives should fit well with my turn of the 20th century theme.

It also gives me the opportunity to have regen on the front wheels, with the SepEx motor. The controller issue is still relevant, but since there is a limit to how much power one can effectively push through the front wheels, it should be more feasible to experiment with. Initially, I think I can run it with a fixed field current, because of the limited use I have in mind for the whole system.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Nice find on the 13" motor.
(_Goes to check if Jim's tractor is still in one piece!_)



Would chain noise be an issue?
I suppose with a chain on both sides of the motor you can use a smaller pitch chain.

I can see some difficulties with chain tension if you want to have the motor pull in both directions. Also tensioning two chains like that, and having the sprocket teeth lined up so that they properly share the load, could cause some alignment issues. As you have two sprockets on a solid jack shaft and two sprockets on each end of the armature you would go out of parallel.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Nice find on the 13" motor.
> (_Goes to check if Jim's tractor is still in one piece!_)...


Thanks Woody!  Breaking stuff is the fun part! 




Woodsmith said:


> ...Would chain noise be an issue?
> I suppose with a chain on both sides of the motor you can use a smaller pitch chain...


I thought about that, and given the nature of the car - it's not a concern. This thing is going to be loud, rough, and radical, anyway so a little chain noise just adds some extra _spice_. I sat in the door-less body for the first time the other day, and it is crazy! The ground is quite literally right there, and the front tires are really right in your face. I'll probably be too busy dodging pebbles, and mysterious liquid sprays, to notice the chain noise. 




Woodsmith said:


> ...I can see some difficulties with chain tension if you want to have the motor pull in both directions. Also tensioning two chains like that, and having the sprocket teeth lined up so that they properly share the load, could cause some alignment issues. As you have two sprockets on a solid jack shaft and two sprockets on each end of the armature you would go out of parallel.


Thanks for the functional insight - I had not thought about some of that. I can do a single-side drive off the motor - that was just my obsession with symmetry. I have given a lot of thought to the issue of tensioning both chains, but haven't reached a conclusion yet. A spring-mounted idler sprocket on one of them seems to be the best solution. Thoughts?

My biggest concern was whether or not I could even fit that size motor. When I found an orientation (sideways) that works and (I think) looks even more awesome than the previous longitudinal setup, I resolved myself to *making* it work. It's more complicated and much more work than simply running a chain, belt, or shaft, drive into a conventional differential but I'm not exactly building a conventional car either. 

I have this great idea to go really low-tech in appearance, and hi-tech in operation with a clutched sprocket on each axle. I haven't researched clutches yet, so I don't have any more specific details on how this would work. In my mind I see small, dry, clutches (which would also add to the "sound effects"), using Honda Accord CV axles, plugged into two Accord intermediate shafts, which have been cut down and keyed or splined for the sprocket driven clutch assembly.

The issue with this is it would take something like software and stepper motors to create a working differential, but that sounds like fun to me. We're gearing up for doing a lot of software stuff anyway. It would just be another challenge for the team. Until then, I could manually control them, or possibly even devise an electro-mechanical device that disengages the clutch to the appropriate wheel, creating an open diff, when the steering wheel is turned.


Woody, when you did your frame (motor case) mounts for your trike, why did you decide to weld them on rather than drill and thread the case?


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Thanks for the functional insight - I had not thought about some of that. I can do a single-side drive off the motor - that was just my obsession with symmetry. I have given a lot of thought to the issue of tensioning both chains, but haven't reached a conclusion yet. A spring-mounted idler sprocket on one of them seems to be the best solution. Thoughts?


I can still see an issue with both the sets of sprockets being perfectly in phase. If one sprocket was a degree out of line with the other on the same shaft then the leading one would take all the load and the trailing one would probably just make noise and whip about until the loaded chain stretched. Having a tensioner would solve the whip but wouldn't resolve the phasing issue. It could also cause some torsional vibration in the jackshaft.
I would be tempted to keep to one chain to drive the jackshaft and maybe at the other end of the motor have something else to balance the looks.




toddshotrods said:


> Woody, when you did your frame (motor case) mounts for your trike, why did you decide to weld them on rather than drill and thread the case?


Mainly because I wanted a specific look of the foot mount appearing to be a cast part of the motor barrel and also because it gave the motor a flat mounting surface instead of a curved one. To make, drill and tap in the same kind of foot to the motor would have been beyond my workshop machinery to make it look right. The foot would also have to be taller to hide the bolt heads underneath.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I can still see an issue with both the sets of sprockets being perfectly in phase. If one sprocket was a degree out of line with the other on the same shaft then the leading one would take all the load and the trailing one would probably just make noise and whip about until the loaded chain stretched. Having a tensioner would solve the whip but wouldn't resolve the phasing issue. It could also cause some torsional vibration in the jackshaft...


Sorry, I confused the issue with my reply. I attempted to agree that it would be best to let go of my obsession with symmetry and drive the jackshaft from one side of the motor. The tensioner sprockets I mentioned, "on one of them" was referring to either the drive chain from motor to jackshaft, or on the chain from the jackshaft to the differential. Actually I like the idea of using one on each of those chains, and not having a sliding or eccentric style tension adjustment.





Woodsmith said:


> ...I would be tempted to keep to one chain to drive the jackshaft and maybe at the other end of the motor have something else to balance the looks...


Exactly. Agree 100% 





Woodsmith said:


> ...Mainly because I wanted a specific look of the foot mount appearing to be a cast part of the motor barrel and also because it gave the motor a flat mounting surface instead of a curved one. To make, drill and tap in the same kind of foot to the motor would have been beyond my workshop machinery to make it look right. The foot would also have to be taller to hide the bolt heads underneath.


Gotcha, thanks.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I wonder if you could dish the diff sprocket far enough so that it lines up with the motor sprocket? 
The drive shaft CV joint could sit inside it. 
You would only have one chain then, or a toothed belt. It could weave its way through the suspension members with the help of a tensioner.

Are you going to reverse the motor as well? Single tensioners don't like being on the drive side. A solution is to have two tensioners mounted on a swing arm so that it allows the drive side to have a straight chain line while maintaining tension. 
The ones I have played with have the two tension wheels outside the chain, but joined with a bar, and squeezing the chain inwards. The centre of the bar is pivoted onto a swing arm that allows it to swing up or down so that the drive side is always straight and the slack side is pulled inwards.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I wonder if you could dish the diff sprocket far enough so that it lines up with the motor sprocket?
> The drive shaft CV joint could sit inside it.
> You would only have one chain then, or a toothed belt. It could weave its way through the suspension members with the help of a tensioner...


No chance of that. The lower control arm's front bar runs right under, and parallel with, the axle, and it's mount is on the frame just under the CV joint. Hope that makes sense.






Woodsmith said:


> ...Are you going to reverse the motor as well?...


Yup. Especially since it's going to have the SepEx motor now, and won't require a massive contactor or switch to accomplish it.






Woodsmith said:


> ...Single tensioners don't like being on the drive side. A solution is to have two tensioners mounted on a swing arm so that it allows the drive side to have a straight chain line while maintaining tension.
> The ones I have played with have the two tension wheels outside the chain, but joined with a bar, and squeezing the chain inwards. The centre of the bar is pivoted onto a swing arm that allows it to swing up or down so that the drive side is always straight and the slack side is pulled inwards...


I'll have to look into that and play around with the idea. The other alternative is get a bunch of gears and make an enclosed housing...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Now who was it here who did a chain drive from a motor by removing the internal fan and fitting the sprocket in there with the chain fed through the vent holes in the DE cap?

That would move the chain more inboard so you can have a main and tail shaft apparently not driving anything.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Now who was it here who did a chain drive from a motor by removing the internal fan and fitting the sprocket in there with the chain fed through the vent holes in the DE cap?
> 
> That would move the chain more inboard so you can have a main and tail shaft apparently not driving anything.


I think I remember reading that - was that you?! Wouldn't that make a mess of the field coils and armature, from the chain slinging oil? As cool as that sounds, there probably isn't really a lot to gain as I would still have to drive a jacksshaft to get the main drive chain where I need it. 

I told the other design guy on the team about the chain drive and he was all smiles. . I knew he would love it. Chain drive on a crazy car is right up his alley.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Glad to see your posts, I enjoy reading them!

You can run a fixed current on the field, and a controller for the armature. A fixed field would mean you could motor (forward torque) below a certain rpm, and regen above that rpm.


Motoring over the car's full speed range that means a weak field and no regen. Weak field = weak torque, so less fast taking off.
A mid field current level would allow more takeoff torque up to maybe 50 mph, and regen above 50 mph
A strong field might be more torque up to 10 mph and regen above that (but that might also overheat the field)
The other problem with a fixed field is you'll have skid-the-wheels strong regen at high rpm unless you do something sophisticated with armature control.



Anyway, if you want real sepex fun you really want to control the field, too. Indeed, I'd say do a contactor on the armature, and a controller on the field would be faster, better regen, and more fun -- but then takeoff would be a challenge (maybe a starting resistor for the armature?). 



toddshotrods said:


> ... It also gives me the opportunity to have regen on the front wheels, with the SepEx motor. The controller issue is still relevant, but since there is a limit to how much power one can effectively push through the front wheels, it should be more feasible to experiment with. Initially, I think I can run it with a fixed field current, because of the limited use I have in mind for the whole system.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Glad to see your posts, I enjoy reading them!
> 
> You can run a fixed current on the field, and a controller for the armature. A fixed field would mean you could motor (forward torque) below a certain rpm, and regen above that rpm.
> 
> ...


Great post David - thanks for the insight. I think you're right. I will plan on a small controller for the field, maybe with some kind of vintage looking lever to control it (via the pot box), initially. Maybe we'll work on our own software to control it eventually...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

It occurred to me today that I have never tested the GE 11" SepEx motor. It's so freakin clean inside that I always figured there's no way it wouldn't at least run decently. I decided to give it a spin. 

The first attempt had me a little concerned. I hooked a (12v) motorcycle battery to the field with automotive jumper cables, then used the car's (new) battery cables to hook the practically new Duralast (750cca) battery to the arm. It turned tiny bit then the battery cable end started glowing! Realizing I was pulling a LOT of current I literally yanked them off the arm terminals (they were starting to fuse)! I tried to touch them a couple more times but the arc was too intense to even think about holding them there. 

My first thought was there must be something wrong inside the motor. The (arm) terminal bolts were pretty warm, but the field coils, and leads to the brushes were all still room temp. Then it hit me - I had trickle-charged the car battery, but forgot to do the motorcycle battery!   It was at 7.84 volts!

I hooked the jumper cables to the car battery, and to the field, then touched the car cables to the arm and she purred like a kitten. In the other thread about testing a SepEx I think it was recommended to use two separate power supplies so I just spun it for a matter of seconds and quit. I'll charge both of my batteries back up and let it sing longer next time, and get a little video...

It sounds good though.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Back to work on the chassis and suspension. I'm using Mustang II geometry up front. The Honda Accord knuckles were cut off, machined, drilled, and tapped, to allow me to use a .750" rod end in place of an upper balljoint. To facilitate that, and to stretch the upper control arm to the right length, we're welding short sections of tubing into the stamped steel Honda control arms. A threaded bung will be welded into this for the rod end. Eventually, these arms will be boxed and internally reinforced. I could have just built tubular arms, but I like the shape of these and wanted to play with them.









































Now that I've finally sorted out my thoughts on it, there should be lots of chassis work coming up. This is going to be a really unique little car.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A small detail that has taken me forever to resolve, not because it was difficult or complex, but because it was mostly a matter of aesthetics - and I couldn't make up my mind!  The front crossmember:








It does have a structural component, as this is what the steering rack mounts to, but the real challenge for me was coming up with a shape that "works". It will be mostly hidden by the grille and steering rack, but I know it's there, and it will be somewhat visible. If it works as planned, it will be one of those subtle details that you don't really notice, that adds something to the whole picture. Like a perfect brush stroke in the middle of a painting, that doesn't so much catch your eye but prevents it from noticing, until you decide to notice. 

You might notice in the rendering that I didn't finish the CAD model. I just needed to develop the shape of the top and bottom plates to cut a pattern for them. The edges will be radiused to match the 2x3" tubing; making the frame rails sweep into the crossmember, like it was carved out of one piece of steel. That will all be good old fashioned hand fabrication.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

That's fun stuff.

I'd humbly suggest you put some sacrificial nuts on the motor posts, so the jumper cable arcs don't erode the threads.

Be sure to always power up the field first, and unpower it last. If you power field and armature together, the field has a delayed response due to its high inductance -- the motor will draw a big current spike, will rev up high for a moment, and then settle down to a steady idle.

I put a charger on the field, and a battery on the armature. It was fun to switch the charger from 2 to 6 Amps, and 6 to 12 Volts, and hear and see the motor change speeds.


toddshotrods said:


> It occurred to me today that I have never tested the GE 11" SepEx motor. It's so freakin clean inside that I always figured there's no way it wouldn't at least run decently. I decided to give it a spin.
> 
> The first attempt had me a little concerned. I hooked a (12v) motorcycle battery to the field with automotive jumper cables, then used the car's (new) battery cables to hook the practically new Duralast (750cca) battery to the arm. It turned tiny bit then the battery cable end started glowing! Realizing I was pulling a LOT of current I literally yanked them off the arm terminals (they were starting to fuse)! I tried to touch them a couple more times but the arc was too intense to even think about holding them there.
> 
> ...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> That's fun stuff.
> 
> I'd humbly suggest you put some sacrificial nuts on the motor posts, so the jumper cable arcs don't erode the threads.
> 
> ...


Thanks David. Fun indeed. I didn't want to stop!  Both motors have female threaded terminals, so I was connecting to bolts threaded into the terminals, not a stud. I would have been running a die over them to restore the threads if I had connected that to studs! 

I remembered all the advice on this forum and was careful to power up the field first/power it down last. According to one of the other threads on these GE motors, it needs about 16 volts on the field to provide the max current, and my motorcycle battery was just under 8 volts, so I had quite a bit of field weakening. It worked well with 12 volts on each, and performed exactly as you described. I didn't have a charger at the shop at the time, to have fun with changing the field voltage and current. Next time...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Okay, let me have it!   Schism is one of my places to play, creatively, and I have turned my wicked attention to the motor mount. This would all be cut, ground, welded, and blended, from .250" steel plate.








The "saddle" mount that the motor actually sits on would have lugs that fit in sockets (holes) machined in the motor case, to actually control the torque reaction. The (top) strap just keeps it locked down on the lugs. The single-bolt end mounts are just for balance and extra support; all the stress is supposed to be carried and controlled by the saddle mount.

If necessary, I could probably run a torque arm forward from the front center of the saddle mount, kind of hidden in the whole jackshaft chain drive assembly, so that all of the twisting force wouldn't be directed into the 3x3" crossmember. The thing about it though is it's not going to be possible to put massive amounts of stall type torque through the front wheels.

Thoughts, comments (ducks)?


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Hmm, that looks like a ton of very difficult fabrication...

Great visual ideas as always, Todd, and I'm not naysaying. My criticism is hopefully constructive for you, and helps refine your thinking.

TIGing those whispy brackets as they decrease down to nothing is going to be some challenge, and I wouldn't want to be the guy who had to grind and finish the welds on the inside between the plates. Its cool, but you're either going to have to find someone who is already one of the best finish welders in the country to fabricate this, or by the time somebody with very good skills finishes one of these designs acceptably, they will be.

.250 plate steel is probably overkill, but regardless of that, I don't like the execution of the pedestal concept, which is actually a very cool idea. You've currently got so little strength in the axis of rotation that you're having to throw metal at it to make it strong enough. If you picked up the loads better, this mount could be like air in 3/16" steel.

One dainty brace like your center bracket running from each side of the motor down to the frame at a 45 degree angle would give you more stiffness than the three you have in parallel on each frame rail now. You could do French curved buttresses that would be both modern and very traditional. Think spider webs cut out on the water jet- in the style of Figoni et Falaschi. Louis Sullivan meets Von Dutch...

I know its a preliminary idea for you and you know all this stuff and are very thorough, Todd, just keep at it. I want nothing more than to encourage you. Love the drawings...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> ...Great visual ideas as always, Todd, and I'm not naysaying. My criticism is hopefully constructive for you, and helps refine your thinking...
> 
> I know its a preliminary idea for you and you know all this stuff and are very thorough, Todd, just keep at it. I want nothing more than to encourage you. Love the drawings...


Hey Tom - thanks!  That's definitely constructive criticism, and encouragement, in my book - exactly what I was looking for. No guarantees I'll follow even wise advise, but I really want to hear what others see. I also wanted to make sure I'm not slipping and missing anything critical.






TomA said:


> Hmm, that looks like a ton of very difficult fabrication...


At the risk of sounding a bit puffed up in our abilities, this was designed to be an easy project for me and my some of my best team members. We thrive on this kind of stuff.





TomA said:


> ...TIGing those whispy brackets as they decrease down to nothing is going to be some challenge, and I wouldn't want to be the guy who had to grind and finish the welds on the inside between the plates. Its cool, but you're either going to have to find someone who is already one of the best finish welders in the country to fabricate this, or by the time somebody with very good skills finishes one of these designs acceptably, they will be...


That would be me, and I will probably MIG this one. The taper isn't too hard to do with MIG, it just takes a good eye and deft touch. TIG even easier. My problem with doing TIG is I don't like to blend pretty TIG welds away, unless it was an aluminum part that needed to be TIG'd. As for grinding and blending them, at least one other team member and myself think that's relaxing - zen like.





TomA said:


> ... .250 plate steel is probably overkill, but regardless of that, I don't like the execution of the pedestal concept, which is actually a very cool idea. You've currently got so little strength in the axis of rotation that you're having to throw metal at it to make it strong enough. If you picked up the loads better, this mount could be like air in 3/16" steel...


In theory, I agree with you. Good eye. It is purposely over-engineered to compensate for the compromises made for the sake of art. The challenges I gave myself with this project were to leave everything possible exposed, and present it as art; sacrifice all practicality for the sake of art, but maintain incredible functionality, blah, blah, blah... In other words, build an art piece that shouldn't work, but somehow does so, exceptionally.





TomA said:


> ...One dainty brace like your center bracket running from each side of the motor down to the frame at a 45 degree angle would give you more stiffness than the three you have in parallel on each frame rail now. You could do French curved buttresses that would be both modern and very traditional. Think spider webs cut out on the water jet- in the style of Figoni et Falaschi. Louis Sullivan meets Von Dutch...


You did give me an idea there. I'll give it a shot and post either the results or the tales of destruction.


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> The challenges I gave myself with this project were to leave everything possible exposed, and present it as art; sacrifice all practicality for the sake of art, but maintain incredible functionality, blah, blah, blah... In other words, build an art piece that shouldn't work, but somehow does so, exceptionally.


My personal aesthetic is similar, but I get there from the other direction. If you start with the mechanical task first, and take off all the extra material, and keep cycling that way until you have it solved with the minimum, the result finds in own beauty within that creative response to meeting the technical challenge.

This aesthetic is most consistently expressed in the building of bridges, where the materials (and construction techniques) are used right at the limit of their capacity (plus the margin of safety and durability) and the result expresses an elegance that transcends its style, meaning it is beautiful to any eye at any time. 

High priests of the school include the Roeblings and Gustav Eiffel. Great artists, no question, but first and foremost those guys were _engineers..._


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

As with TomA, I think it is very pretty but I would want to have fore and aft bracing to prevent movement.

Driving forwards, where most of the torque will be I guess, it will be the lower chain run under tension. That reduces the effect of pulling the motor towards the diff compared to reversing, when the tension would be in the top run of chain.

Maybe having a nice bit of 'decorative' structural bracing between the motor and the diff to visually, and physically tie them together? Assuming that neither are going to need to move for chain tensioning.
The brace could be part of the chain tensioning assembly, supporting a pair of swinging tensioner jockey wheels.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> My personal aesthetic is similar, but I get there from the other direction. If you start with the mechanical task first, and take off all the extra material, and keep cycling that way until you have it solved with the minimum, the result finds in own beauty within that creative response to meeting the technical challenge.
> 
> This aesthetic is most consistently expressed in the building of bridges, where the materials (and construction techniques) are used right at the limit of their capacity (plus the margin of safety and durability) and the result expresses an elegance that transcends its style, meaning it is beautiful to any eye at any time.
> 
> High priests of the school include the Roeblings and Gustav Eiffel. Great artists, no question, but first and foremost those guys were _engineers..._


I am a fan of the awesome civil engineering you mentioned Tom. In my personal pursuits, I tend to swing much more towards the aesthetic - these days. When I was a couple decades younger, and racing dominated my thoughts, that was definitely my M.O. Now, I am a true middle-aged, Baby Boom, American, hot rodder that likes to over engineer things, to allow for making them even prettier. Many of my colleagues and peers do it to win trophies, and respect, I do it simply because it makes my heart happy. 





Woodsmith said:


> As with TomA, I think it is very pretty but I would want to have fore and aft bracing to prevent movement.
> 
> Driving forwards, where most of the torque will be I guess, it will be the lower chain run under tension. That reduces the effect of pulling the motor towards the diff compared to reversing, when the tension would be in the top run of chain.
> 
> ...


Great minds.  You just described, perfectly, what I touched on...


toddshotrods said:


> ...If necessary, I could probably run a torque arm forward from the front center of the saddle mount, kind of hidden in the whole jackshaft chain drive assembly, so that all of the twisting force wouldn't be directed into the 3x3" crossmember...



Now on to the revision, inspired by Tom's first comments. I twisted the lateral plate over the frame rails, to put the outside mounts at a 30-degree angle. Under forward acceleration the motor would be driving these down into the frame, allowing them to work like the rear "dog bone" on a modern front wheel drive engine. My Honda's dog bone was in front, working in tension; and my Fieros' were in back working in compression. I tried both ways and the aesthetic of the compression arrangement won, hands down.









This gives the outside mounts a more involved role in the design. The saddle mount supports all the weight, and transmits most of the torque into the chassis, and has two friends helping resist the twist (cheesy rhyme was intentional, sorry ).

Also not seen in the CAD renderings, are my ideas for how the saddle mount will actually transmit its torque into the chassis. I'm going to weld an X-brace inside that 3x3" crossmember, that will span its length, also reaching all the way to the outsides of the frame rails and be plug welded to them as well. Where the 3x3" crossmember welds to the frame, I am going to slot the frame rails, so that the vertical walls of the crossmember extends into the inside walls of the main frame rails just a bit. That way the torque isn't being transmitted solely into welds. It would have to shear off all four vertical walls, and the welds, of the crossmember to fail. If I open the bottom of the crossmember to fit and weld the X-brace, I can also weld the insides of the slotted connections.

In my mind at least, this turns the whole front of the chassis into a big torque arm.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Since the only changes were the outside mounts, I just re-shot the important angles of the first pic with the corrected version and updated the file on my server, so that pic (021 - hotlinked here) has the angled outer mounts. Here it is again, for those who haven't cleared their caches:


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I have the front crossmember, and the motor mount, "dumbed down" into 2D CAD, and we're moving forward with both. Actually, Kez has already plasma cut the front crossmember top plate, and will be grinding it down to shape soon. I forgot to take pics... 

I think I am going to laser cut the motor mount in project board to test fit it on the chassis first, then we'll whittle it out of steel (providing the design is good). The motor has to clear the rear control arm mounts, and I have to make sure the steering linkage will clear.


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Looks great except for one thing...

How are you managing the fore and aft dynamic loads of that heavy motor? All your mounts are clustered within a few degrees of the bottom, and the fore/aft stiffness will be severely tested by that heavy motor bouncing around.

In ideal circumstances, like going on and off the trailer or very easy driving on smooth streets, its probably OK, but you're expecting a lot of stability work from your torque axis mounts. Look how big a lever that heavy motor has on the steel in your mounts. At 225lbs, its going to put tons of torque into them if everything gets jolted around.

Typical driving scenarios would worry me over time. In even a very minor collision (which I no nobody plans on but really every automotive engineer must address) I think your motor is just going to keel over on the pedestal, and rotate about your torque axis mounts before or while bending them, too. 

Just eyeball engineering here, Todd, but steel is not very stiff in the flat configurations you're using, and I think that big heavy motor is going to shudder and flop around plenty on its mounts as it is, and at a minimum fatigue it like crazy doing things like going over railroad tracks or the occasional pothole. I would be concerned about that movement putting dynamic loads into your chain drive, too.

Whaddya think?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> Looks great except for one thing...
> 
> How are you managing the fore and aft dynamic loads of that heavy motor? All your mounts are clustered within a few degrees of the bottom, and the fore/aft stiffness will be severely tested by that heavy motor bouncing around.
> 
> ...


I'm listening and giving very serious consideration to every comment Tom. Woody had pretty much the same concern:


Woodsmith said:


> As with TomA, I think it is very pretty but I would want to have fore and aft bracing to prevent movement...
> 
> ...Maybe having a nice bit of 'decorative' structural bracing between the motor and the diff to visually, and physically tie them together? Assuming that neither are going to need to move for chain tensioning.
> The brace could be part of the chain tensioning assembly, supporting a pair of swinging tensioner jockey wheels.



In my original post on this mount, I addressed my concerns for this too:



toddshotrods said:


> ...If necessary, I could probably run a torque arm forward from the front center of the saddle mount, kind of hidden in the whole jackshaft chain drive assembly, so that all of the twisting force wouldn't be directed into the 3x3" crossmember. The thing about it though is it's not going to be possible to put massive amounts of stall type torque through the front wheels...


As I continued to work on the design, I realized another opportunity for this. The back of the motor is going to be right in front of the firewall. I think I can run tubular struts down from where the top clamp attaches to the back of the saddle, into the chassis. They would be completely hidden from view (outside the car) and serve to brace the motor from fore/aft movement _and_ torque reaction. I just have to think through where I would attach them inside the cowl, to not interfere with the pedals, etc.

Thoughts, comments? Keep it coming...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

It also occurred to me that this thing has more pure EV potential now, due to the big azz 11" motor. The original plan was to use an 8" DC motor, and gear it really low so that the motor would have quick acceleration, drive drive. That limited it to low-speed usage; around town and "launch" assist.

With an 11" motor, in a 1200-1500lb hot rod, the best of both worlds is possible. It can be geared for highway speeds allowing full usage as an EV, and still have as much off-the-line punch as is possible from the front wheels. I still don't have much room for batteries, but for what range it has it can operate as a real EV, with the ICE on standby as a range extender.

I'll post some CAD renderings later, but I managed to stuff almost 10kwh (of my preferred Turnigy NanoTechs) in the floor for something like 30-40 miles of EV range! That's at 250-300 watts per mile. It's pretty light, but will have fat sticky tires and horrible aero, so I used typical small car numbers.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We made a little progress today. First was having patterns printed from my unrolled CAD models. That little disc is a quarter for scale.








Then we started cutting them out and grinding them to shape. I had so much fun today that I kept forgetting about pics, so until I am back in the shop...

If you pick this one apart, you'll see the front crossmember top plate that Kez has beautifully carved to shape. Behind it is the motor crossmember, with the bottom cut out and ready to be slotted into the frame rails. The green marks are where the slots will be cut. An internal brace will added from underneath later, the insides of the slotted connections welded, and the bottom welded back in. Finally, the motor mount main plate, plasma cut, and in the process of being ground to shape.










Here we're laying out the roll cage hoop stanchions. They were tacked together with a piece of angle iron, and tacked welded onto the frame, but I forgot to take pics of it.








Next, for the cage, we cut/notch/fit the door bars and crossmembers between the stanchions. Then, we'll start running tubes to the front and rear suspension to tie the chassis together. It's going to be a unique cage.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

480 Turnigy NanoTech (1s/2p) modules fit in the floor. 296v/33ah = 9.8kwh; good for 31 miles at 250 watt-hours per mile (80% DOD). 2145 amps at the _conservative_ 65c rating; 850+hp in the pack (only looking for 200-300 from the motor). They should last a bit longer than the other Turnigy packs I have spec'd, because I won't really be pushing them very hard in Schism.








There are 12 individual modules stacked on top of the back row of the large sub-pack, but that's behind the seats where I have room to push up into the cabin area, without compromising passenger space. I may eventually move more cells to that location to make space in the sub-packs for connections, etc. No idea on BMS yet.

The yellow rectangle is the ICE fuel tank. It will probably be setup to run solely on E85, so even with the ICE it is theoretically possible for this vehicle to operate on 100% renewable energy.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I hit the shop by myself to clean up a little from yesterday, and do some design work. I remembered to snap some pics of the beginning of the roll cage. It's basically going to be a full cage, tucked down inside what little bodywork Schism has, with twin roll bars instead of a single main hoop. The roll bars will be retractable, so that they pretty much disappear behind the seats when it's not running. Initially, this will probably be a manual operation, but I would love to have them automatically raise and retract when the ignition is turned on.

























Next the door bars get cut and notched to tie these into the front of the frame's perimeter box; and crossmembers to run between the stanchion tubes. A bar will run off each outside stanchion back to the rear suspension, and a bar will run forward from each door bar to the front suspension. Season with lots of bracing and triangulation, and hopefully a stable handling platform as a result.


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

It has been fascinating watching your build. Thanks for sharing.



toddshotrods said:


> good for 31 miles at 250 watts per mile (80% DOD).


Don't you mean 250 Watt-hours per mile? Watts per mile is as meaningful as horsepower per mile.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

GizmoEV said:


> It has been fascinating watching your build. Thanks for sharing...


Thanks Gizmo!  This is a fun project, because I don't have any set rules to play by - just doing what my imagination suggests and my mind says is "safe". 





GizmoEV said:


> ...Don't you mean 250 Watt-hours per mile? Watts per mile is as meaningful as horsepower per mile.


Yup, I did, thanks for catching that.  I need to go back and edit my posts so it doesn't confuse people who are learning this wizardry.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We're slowly, but consistently, chipping away at the huge list of custom fabrication I insist on for this car. Yesterday, while one of the interns was grinding on the electric motor mount, I had another starting working on the rear crossmember. In addition to, obviously, connecting the rear frame rails, it will also be the rear mount for the ICE exhaust. Try to ignore the fact that I just said, and this shows an, ICE and enjoy the design and fabrication. 

I haven't figured out exactly how I want to do the cutouts and mounts for the mufflers yet, but it will be hashed out in CAD and realized in steel from patterns produced by this model.









Yesterday we cut the 2x2" tubing crossmember, and steel pieces for the frame rail end caps; then I showed him how to hammer flat steel plate to fit the radius of the side plates (more fun than just cutting tubing, to me, though I'm not sure the intern would agree ).
















He doesn't know that I accidentally asked him to do twice as many of the hammered parts than needed!  I'll use them somewhere...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I actually finished the CAD model for the rear crossmember a couple of days ago, but forgot to post pics. I unrolled the surfaces and had them saved on a USB drive, waiting for the right opportunity to start on it. Today was that opportunity. I had the resident sign guy print the patterns, and we started carving it out of steel. I also forgot to take my camera today, so pics of the steel work tomorrow. For now, here's the CAD.









The reason the rolled filler pieces are larger than the hole they fill is I want to MIG them in and blend the welds so that the mufflers float over sculptured platforms, not just in a pocket. I plan to use a high-temp silicone gasket between the muffler and the crossmember. The large pattern wrapped around the tubing perfectly, one of the interns used the plasma cutter to remove the metal, and another one finished opening them up (out to the lines) with a right-angle grinder. Tomorrow, we'll probably hammer the rolled filler pieces.

I still need to figure out how I want the mounting bolts. They'll come in from under it, and be in recessed into the center brace.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I was going to give a thumbs down to the '_not so subtle bucket sized exhausts_' as big pipes are not that popular over here but considering the size of your car they are probably not as big as they look.

Maybe about 4" diameter?

I like the idea for the mounting, so they hover over the curved platforms sculpted out of the cross member instead of inset into it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I was going to give a thumbs down to the '_not so subtle bucket sized exhausts_' as big pipes are not that popular over here but considering the size of your car they are probably not as big as they look....


Rofl!  They're not quite bucket sized, and Schism does make them look larger that they are.  CAD renderings also have a tendency to look huge, because you're usually filling the screen with one area of interest. The suspension brackets in the rendering also look big, but they're really tiny.

Also, these aren't exhaust tips - they're the actual mufflers, so the ends will be filled with a custom billet end cap for the removable baffling. I plan to play with the tuning until it has an exotic car type sound. The kids here with the sport compact cars often have big stainless mufllers, that we old buskers call "fart cans", because of the deep, seemingly monotone, sound they emit. Schism will *not* sound like that! I have a new prospective intern, an electrical engineering major, whose interest is sound - if she sticks around, I am going to task her with determining what frequencies we're hearing from Ferraris, and what type of baffling we can fit in those mufflers to come as close as we can to it.




Woodsmith said:


> ...Maybe about 4" diameter?...


A bit larger than that. I think the main section of the cans are around 5" diameter, and the ends flare out to about 6". That's what the CAD model says, and the pockets seem to fit the real-life cans just like the CAD models. I took a huge chance on that because I took a side profile picture of the cans, made a curve from the profile shape, and revolved it into a can, to create them. I forgot to actually measure them though, so I was going off the size of the inlet pipe (3"), and my memory. I think it worked.




Woodsmith said:


> ...I like the idea for the mounting, so they hover over the curved platforms sculpted out of the cross member instead of inset into it.


Thanks.  I hope it's even noticeable in real life. That's another one of those little things that look great when filling up the screen, but easy to lose at near ground level, and in competition will all the other *O*bsessive *C*ompulsive *D*etails on a car like this. Those are the things that make a vehicle really captivating though, because no matter how many times you look, or how long you stare, you always find some new _hidden_ detail...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> A bit larger than that. I think the main section of the cans are around 5" diameter, and the ends flare out to about 6".


I thought about 5" but didn't want to say in case they were 'fart cans'.



toddshotrods said:


> *O*bsessive *C*ompulsive *D*etails


I like that term!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I thought about 5" but didn't want to say in case they were 'fart cans'....


Lol.  They're actually Supertrapp mufflers. They use diffuser discs to tune the exhaust. I don't like the sound of Supertrapps though because you can hear a lot of hissing from the air blowing through the small gaps between the plates. I love the shape of the cans though, so I am using them with my own design for internal baffling. I don't have enough modeled to show yet, but my first thoughts are to have five smaller outlet holes in each end plate. It kind of gives the "flavor" of a revolver cylinder. Not sure that's actually what I'm going to do though - just experimenting so far. I don't want it to be too much of a gimmick.





Woodsmith said:


> ...I like that term!


I thought you might be able to appreciate that.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Every time I get into these detail and fabrication discussions with Woody, I end up lost in CAD!  At least that's my story (to blame Woody), and I'm sticking to it. I just couldn't get this idea out of my head, so please forgive the ICE-related intrusion for a bit longer. Hey, a 700hp ethanol burning _range extender_ has to be properly equipped to prevent noise pollution! 








Three chambered internal design, with two baffle plates, the center one rotated 36-degrees. The center tube would be perforated (at least I did avoid the temptation to design a custom perforation pattern and "cut" it - for now), and wrapped in some type of composite sound damping material. If necessary, I can design a cage to hold more sound damping material on the outsides of the chambers.

In normal operation, the butterfly valve would be closed forcing the exhaust through the chambers and out of the five outlets in each muffler (pink line). When the boost ramps up the butterfly would open, providing a straight through, resonator style exhaust.

I also resisted the temptation to design a billet end cap, because the whole theme of this car is "hand-crafted" so these would be manually turned and machined caps, with five little cast or spun exhaust tips TIG'd to them.

I suppose this is turning out to be a bit more complicated than running up the street to Jeg's and buying a performance muffler!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Every time I get into these detail and fabrication discussions with Woody, I end up lost in CAD!  At least that's my story (to blame Woody), and I'm sticking to it.


Hey! Don't blame me while I am incapacitated!

Anyway, I am banned from the workshop for now so can't make anything in there.
However, I am not banned from the kitchen.









I've been baking!
Two cakes over the weekend and another cooling on the rack just now. Will ice it last thing tonight ready for tomorrow.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...I've been baking!...


You'd better go easy on those cakes Woody, or you're going to need a bigger axle than the one you're planning on for that tractor! 


Today, my awesome Team braved the tropical climate in our shop to hash out more metal parts. We got the lower radiator mounts fabricated and tacked on.








A simple wooden fixture to line them up on the frame.

































The rear crossmember/exhaust mount a few more steps along.









The motor crossmember almost ready to slot into the frame.









And the motor mount plates are getting really close now, they're all cleaned up from the plasma slag, and ground down close to the final shape. Soon we'll start hammering the saddle and clamp to fit around the motor, and assembling the mount. More pics coming soon.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I like it. The newer Corvettes have a butterfly in their exhaust that changes the sound and makes for a little bit more hp when in loud mode.

For my gasser, the exhaust that was there when I bought the car was extremely loud. It just so happens that stainless steel sink strainers fit in perfectly, so I put two on a long bolt and shoved them in. It sounds great. Of course, I wouldn't expect such a level of crudeness on any of your fine creations, but it is food for thought or experimentation.

Obscure exhaust legal trivia: In my state, technically your exhaust would be illegal, since we aren't allowed to have any kind of "muffler bypass." The Corvette's butterfly, and diesel exhaust brakes are OK since nothing gets bypassed, they just increase back pressure.


toddshotrods said:


> Every time I get into these detail and fabrication discussions with Woody, I end up lost in CAD!  At least that's my story (to blame Woody), and I'm sticking to it. I just couldn't get this idea out of my head, so please forgive the ICE-related intrusion for a bit longer. Hey, a 700hp ethanol burning _range extender_ has to be properly equipped to prevent noise pollution!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> I like it. The newer Corvettes have a butterfly in their exhaust that changes the sound and makes for a little bit more hp when in loud mode...


Thanks David.  I think a lot of the newer sports and exotic cars are using this now. Funny thing is electronic exhaust cut-outs have been on the hot rod/race scene for years now.




DavidDymaxion said:


> ...Obscure exhaust legal trivia: In my state, technically your exhaust would be illegal, since we aren't allowed to have any kind of "muffler bypass." The Corvette's butterfly, and diesel exhaust brakes are OK since nothing gets bypassed, they just increase back pressure.


In Ohio, this is technically legal because there is still a muffler that the exhaust passes through. When the butterfly opens it transforms from a chambered muffler to a glass pack. I had everything imaginable on my 86 Accord, from glass packs, to turbo mufflers, and Monza (resonator) tips with no mufflers (kind of loud but a nice European sound). They were all "quiet" enough to not draw unwanted attention from Ohio and PA cops. Considering that this will only open when the boost goes over say 15lbs (unless I manually open them for fun) I doubt they would be stopping me for "excessive noise".  A 1500lb car pushing 30lbs of boost on public roads will have cops looking at Schism for other reasons!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Kez went right after my over-the-top desire to slot this crossmember into the frame and absolutely nailed it! 









The motor crossmember and front crossmember top plate are now tacked in place, and the motor mount main plate now fits perfectly.










All the motor mount plates (clockwise from upper left corner - clamp, saddle, longitudinal plate, lateral plate) are almost there. One of our interns has been working his azz off on these things! It seems like every time I get to the shop I find evidence that he has already been there, grinding away at these things.










Kez is about to start on the door bars of the cage now.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Since the Team is rapidly knocking items off the to-do list, I figured I'd better get serious about finishing the plan for a basic set up for the front and rear suspensions. I did the easy part with the lower control arms, so we could fabricate and install those brackets. The real challenge is just making basic decisions to finish the design for the upper mounts.

*Caveat:* Schism is NOT a race car, it's a toy and this isn't a serious discussion about suspension theory or performance. The number one goal with this car is it's fun to drive and play with - period. 

Schism's front suspension uses modified 4th gen Honda Accord parts mixed with custom designed and fabricated parts, and roughly based on Mustang II (MII) geometry. I chose MII as a base to work off because it fit the physical constraints of the car, and because it is the street rod standard. Most street rod owners with modern MII front suspension rant and rave about how much fun/how enjoyable their vehicles are to drive. More hardcore handling performance enthusiasts and racers - not so much - but again, that isn't the true intent of this car.

The modifications to the Accord parts were to cut the knuckles down, and drill and tap them for a rod end in place of the upper balljoint; replace the upper balljoint in the front upper control arms with a bushed tube for the rod end (also extending it to match the MII upper arm length); and replace the lower control arm strut rods with rod-ended, tubular, A-arm "halves". The result is MII-ish geometry, with drive hubs for the electric motor to pull through.

So far, I have an approximate 49.75" front track (about six inches narrower than the typical MII setup); 1.05" (static) front roll center height; geometry that should provide a decent amount of negative camber gain (I only have a static RC calculator - gotta get some good software to finish/tune), as well as a bit of "designed-in" static negative camber. It's nothing revolutionary, nothing to write home about, but on a 102" (wb) car that weighs about 1500lbs, with gobs of power - it should be "entertaining". 

I am about to start modeling the front upper control arm mounts and posted this to see if any of the regulars had any comments or suggestions - in keeping with the aforementioned caveat? There is also a ton of adjustment available in my design, so I'm not locked into the initial setting, but would like to be in the ballpark of fun and enjoyable...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

That software I was using was kind of goofy to plot the locations in (everything was from the left track line, instead of from center), and I started to question the results when I plugged in some sample specs from one of the leading suspension design software products. The numbers didn't match and, given the choice of which I would believe, I chose the known commodity. So, I started searching for something better and found this. It matches the specs from Performance Trends for a C5 Corvette pretty closely, so I will use it instead; until I bite the bullet and buy one. It's actually a bit more conservative, if anything. It also has a (preset) dive/roll feature where it will let you see what happens over in a corner ("Dive and Roll: RF Shock 3.25 LF Shock 2.5 Travel").

My current front design has a 1.88" static roll center height (not 1.05). For what it's worth, I actually have less vertical roll center migration than the stock Vette geometry. I'm not saying my geometry is better than a Vette's, just that I think I am in the ballpark. I'm also planning to have less travel - about 2" of compression, max, so it will be easier to manage. So far, the rear, has a 3.42" static roll center height. I need to verify the numbers I'm using for the rear suspension though. I need to pull a knuckle and upper control arm off and check the measurement I have for the upper ball joint height and width. I know I am pretty close though, and have enough flexibility to correct it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I love this thing!  The motor mount plates are coming along. A little more clean up, and a little fine-tuning on the fit, and these will be ready to tack together. Then, we start hammering that saddle, and twisting and curling the ends - I cannot wait to do that!  The longitudinal cross brace needs more profile work, but we're waiting for the saddle to do that - it will be much easier to fine tune it to fit the saddle than re-hammer the saddle to fit it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woody, this guy makes lightweight OCD chumps like us look like major slackers.  Check out part two, too - the final product is amazing.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's a fantastic video. The end result is incredible, especially the tiger's stripes.


I shall be expecting stripy inclusions in your work now, Todd.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That's a fantastic video. The end result is incredible, especially the tiger's stripes.
> 
> 
> I shall be expecting stripy inclusions in your work now, Todd.


Haha! The Team Inhaler members already think I'm crazy, that would put the final nail in my coffin!  It's sure to encourage me to do something crazy though. 



We have a ton of hammerforming to do now, to transform all the cutting and grinding we've been doing into early 20th century style parts. I'm sure the other tenants in the complex love us - if we're not grinding and cutting we're pinging hammers off steel all day!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Another busy day in the shop. Two of the interns worked on hammering out more steel parts - the front crossmember front plate, and the rear crossmember brace filler pieces. I will have pics of those later in the week. I did the lay-up of two seat shells, and started cutting some more foam plugs, and Kez started on the roll cage door bars.

Using the cheap Jeg's plastic seats as a basic form, we're going to create a very unique pair of composite bomber seats. With a PVA barrier, and a little heat from the sun, the different COE rates for the plastic and fiberglass basically split them apart as they cured. The only thing I forgot was to cut the excess off the back of the seat belt openings, with a razor blade before it fully cured, so they're still stuck on the seats until I remove that. 









Kez working it out on the roll cage. I can't wait to see the cage on this car. It's going to be very unique, without worrying about following NHRA rules so much. I am using them as a basic guideline, but not worrying about meeting their specs.











This is my latest over-the-top great idea!  We're going to attempt to build a carbon fiber/aluminum intake manifold that will hold up to 30lbs of boost, tons of vibration, (hopefully no serious backfires), etc. This isn't a completely accurate model of what the intake will look like, but it's close. It's really a model to develop the foam core for the carbon fiber plenum. The aluminum base will weld to cropped runners of the old Accord intake. The carbon fiber will actually come out to the edge of that base when it's laid-up over the foam, and there will be a lip on the aluminum to help it resist pulling (blowing) apart. The other end will support a modified throttle body flange, again with a lip. A lot of finish work on the foam core will be done by hand.








Yes, I know about galvanic reaction between the carbon fiber and aluminum - it will be accounted for! 

As mentioned, I started to cut the core slices. With a .020 stepover rate, and .500" ball-end mill, the final surface of the foam is very nice (close-ups later).


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

My crazy Team doesn't care that it's going to be ~100-degrees here today, with typical Ohio humidity - they're coming in to work on the hot rods!  We have no A/C in the shop, just some little fans (need to get one of those big shop fans, at least). So, I'm on the way to the shop in a bit, and decided to add a bit of radius to the edges of the recess for the emblem on the plenum. I was going to do this all by hand but decided to get a little help from the machine.








It will still require a lot of hand finishing and blending, but this gets the ball rolling with perfect symmetry.

I think today I am going to get the guys started on the shifter. In contrast to my normal practice of at least thinking things through in CAD, we're going to hash the shifter out in metal straight from my head.  Remember the good old days of bar/dinner napkin sketches? Well, this is the 21st century where we can begin the pursuit of dreams with iPhone sketches! 








I use Autodesk's SketchBook Mobile to get ideas out of my head, anywhere, anytime.  Normally, I would take this into Photoshop, clean it up, and translate it into CAD - but this time we're just going to start cutting and forming metal from this really raw idea. I _think_ I know where I want to go... As for why the sketch is soooo rough, remember, I'm drawing on a tiny screen, zooming in and out, just to get something out of my head until I can get back to the idea. I'm also drawing with a relatively large silicone ball-tipped stylus - so it's like drawing with a baby's finger.

The whole thing will be on a big sculptured, tapered, crescent-shaped, "I-beam", that sweeps up out of the gap between the seats and drops down in front of them to hold the exposed, rocker arm, shifter mechanism. Imagine a skinny, metal, armrest with a shifter on the end of it!  I usually go overboard with my shifters and steering wheels - time to push the limits a little.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't know how to even express how awesome my little Team is. They showed up on an, officially, 100-degree day, with typical Ohio humidity, and downtown smog, and worked like it was just any other old day. 

The rear crossmember brace welded up and ready to be ground into shape.










Here's the what seats look like - untrimmed. I wasn't supposed to start on the roll cage until I had the seats, so I could make them fit like this. Careful measuring and a little luck - perfect! They have a unique shape.


















Also got the rest of the foam carved out, the plenum core glued together, and the intake manifold lopped off.


























And, we started on my ridiculous shifter. The main plate is cut and ready for final grinding. Tomorrow, they'll cut the top and bottom plates, then we'll weld it together and blend the welds so it looks like a little I-beam. The shifter mounts in that little hook on the end. It drops it right in between, and in front of, the seats - as planned. Another intern also started carving the mounting plates out, but I forgot to take pics of them.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Great progress! Keep the updates coming....


----------



## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> You might notice in the rendering that I didn't finish the CAD model. I just needed to develop the shape of the top and bottom plates to cut a pattern for them. The edges will be radiused to match the 2x3" tubing; making the frame rails sweep into the crossmember, like it was carved out of one piece of steel. That will all be good old fashioned hand fabrication.


That chassis is only 3" deep, I thought they must be 8" or so and slotted into your build table! With that big hole in the middle and a non-structural body how on earth are you going to make it structurally sound let alone stiff enough for racing?

And why solid mount the engine? It'll be horrid to drive, will shake itself to death and will crack its mounts (if you're lucky and it doesn't pull the mounting bosses out of the block/gearbox) sat atop the floppy chassis.

Don't get me wrong, it looks cool but it also looks frighteningly bendy. Have you run this past an engineer?
jk


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Great progress! Keep the updates coming....


Thanks Mike! 





jk1981 said:


> That chassis is only 3" deep, I thought they must be 8" or so and slotted into your build table! With that big hole in the middle and a non-structural body how on earth are you going to make it structurally sound let alone stiff enough for racing?...


You must have missed this pic and post? That's the responsibility of the roll cage. When it's finished, the case will run from front to back, tying the whole structure together, and adding the necessary rigidity. Standard race car practice, where the body is just to provide the image of a car - all the real structure is in the chassis.













jk1981 said:


> ...And why solid mount the engine? It'll be horrid to drive, will shake itself to death...


Have you ever owned, driven, or even ridden in a solid-mounted race chassis before? I have. It's not that bad. Yes, the engine vibrations will be directly transmitted into the chassis - I *want* that, because I want it to _feel_ like a real race car. It's all in what your preferences are, and I happen to think driving race cars is a hoot! They make me 




jk1981 said:


> ...will crack its mounts (if you're lucky and it doesn't pull the mounting bosses out of the block/gearbox) sat atop the floppy chassis...


It won't. Mainly because the chassis won't be floppy, and secondly because I'm building it to be abused.





jk1981 said:


> ...Don't get me wrong, it looks cool but it also looks frighteningly bendy. Have you run this past an engineer?


No problem, I genuinely appreciate the concern. Your post didn't come across as negative - more frighteningly concerned!  I've been doing this for a _couple_ years, very successfully, and fortunately/unfortunately I am quite literally surrounded by engineers who have a tendency to question my every move - even when it's something they know I've been doing for three decades. I don't mind - I kind of enjoy sending them back to their training to figure out why it works when they were so sure it wouldn't.  There's also an older master metalworking guy based out of the complex, who can't keep his nose out of what we do, and also questions things - until he sees the results. Then, he just mumbles on about how _he_ wouldn't have done it that way... 


*Final points:*
As radical as Schism looks, there's really nothing new going on under the sun with it. Almost everything being done is via tried and true race or hot rod building practices. I'm just making it _look_ radical. 

It's not really a race car. It's a street rod, that will have a ridiculous amount of power, and be thoroughly abused, but actual racing isn't really the goal - having fun is. It it were a true race car, we wouldn't be hammering all these parts out of steel (weight), and it probably wouldn't have an 11" motor just to provide a couple hundred ponies of boost at the front wheels.  That big motor will make driving in all-electric mode more enjoyable, and possible at highway speeds too now, plus it looks badazz - so the weight penalty is well worth it! Front wheel and four wheel burnouts should also be pretty spectacular with the torque of an 11" motor added to the mix! 

The Model E is our race car.


----------



## jk1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

No, I saw the cage pictures, I still don't see any real structure in the cage, plenty of metal but mostly in big open squares and with lots of bent tube. There is also sill that large open square in the floor?

You yourself in an earlier post suggested it is a race car as justification for solid mounting the engine when someone else picked up on it. As stiff as you can make and that is limited by the design it it'll still flex in use and bolted solid to that engine something has got to give.

And yes, I do have a car with nearly solid mounted 4cyl engine and a solid mounted diff. It's *really* harsh and draining to use in the real world on real roads.

Good on you for getting on and building, I'm not in any way trying to be negative about the project as a whole or discourage you but I'm struggling to see how you'll add the structural integrity this'll need to handle the powerplant you intend for it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

jk1981 said:


> No, I saw the cage pictures, I still don't see any real structure in the cage, plenty of metal but mostly in big open squares and with lots of bent tube. There is also sill that large open square in the floor?...


I guess only time will solve this mystery. The old cage is gone, and the new design lives only in my head right now. The only thing I can say is keep watching... (not trying to be a smart-azz - I just can't accurately describe it in text, over the internet)





jk1981 said:


> ...You yourself in an earlier post suggested it is a race car as justification for solid mounting the engine when someone else picked up on it. As stiff as you can make and that is limited by the design it it'll still flex in use and bolted solid to that engine something has got to give...


I did, and I have been trying to correct that perception with statements like "not _really_ a _real_ race car", but it's hard over the internet. It's being built like a race car, I want it to "feel" like a race car, and it will follow a lot of race car practice, so in essence it will be an artistic portrayal of a race car. The difference, that I am trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to convey with keywords and bold/underlined/italic text, is that it doesn't actually have to fulfill any of the obligations of a race car. It won't be seriously, competitively, used that way. Whatever it does or doesn't do well, I am willing to accept. It's a street rod, which (to me) means it's a functional art piece. It's number one job is to make me people smile.  That takes precedence over *everything* else. Why all the power goals? Because it's fun and nothing brings up a smile like wretched excess in power. 





jk1981 said:


> ...And yes, I do have a car with nearly solid mounted 4cyl engine and a solid mounted diff. It's *really* harsh and draining to use in the real world on real roads...


"Nearly" is usually a problem, depending on what you mean by that. Well-designed and implemented, full solid mounts actually prevent breaking mounts and use the engine to strengthen the chassis (it becomes a structural member). Combinations of different rigidity in the mounts can cause issues because there is some initial movement, that has to stopped by the other mounts, putting stress on them. People sometimes combine rubber and poly, or poly and solid - most parts and chassis manufacturers advise not to...

I happen to think riding in/on solid-mounted, stiffly sprung, race cars and motorcycles (and even hardtail bikes) is enjoyable - so it's all according to your personal preferences. Schism is also not being built for my daily commute - it's a toy that I take out and use like a guy would ride a hardtailed chopper.




jk1981 said:


> ...Good on you for getting on and building, I'm not in any way trying to be negative about the project as a whole or discourage you but I'm struggling to see how you'll add the structural integrity this'll need to handle the powerplant you intend for it.


Thanks.  I didn't take any of it that way. Please stay tuned, and hopefully you'll see it as the build develops. Feel free to question & comment. I consider every question, comment, and concern, seriously - I have actually made a mistake or two, and overlooked a few things, in my life - if you can believe that!


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Love the pics and words, keep them coming! Here are a few thoughts:


Have you considered doing hard urethane or even solid suspension mounts? I read about a Mustang with huge roller bearings for the suspension points, I always thought that would be a neat idea.
I have a friend with a V8 car with solid motor mounts -- you'd never guess. Admittedly a V8 is smoother than a 4 cylinder! The solid mounts weigh much less and help keep the exhaust from hitting when torque tries to rotate the motor.
I'm a bit worried about the electric motor mounts. I assume a chain will transmit the power. This will pull hard on one end of the motor relative to the other end. It seems like you need plates parallel to the end bells, or triangulated mounts.
Thumbs up on the cage strengthening the car. Why not build the cage to NHRA specs? It doesn't seem like much more, if any, work and would be a nice byline if nothing else.
It's great stuff, and I'm not claiming to be an expert. As usual I'll enjoy learning from your reply.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Love the pics and words, keep them coming!...


Thanks David! 





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...Have you considered doing hard urethane or even solid suspension mounts? I read about a Mustang with huge roller bearings for the suspension points, I always thought that would be a neat idea...


Over half of the current suspension _is_ solid, with rod ends in place of rubber or poly.  There are four rubber bushings left in the control arms, and six factory balljoints, that will all be replaced with spherical balls before I start pushing on them; so it will be all solid, no give. I'm also using the cheapy rod ends to get it set up because there is so much grinding and crap going on - they'll all be replaced with precision rod ends later.

It might squeak a little, with all solid suspension, but old cars did squeak and rattle... 





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...I have a friend with a V8 car with solid motor mounts -- you'd never guess. Admittedly a V8 is smoother than a 4 cylinder! The solid mounts weigh much less and help keep the exhaust from hitting when torque tries to rotate the motor...


This particular engine has dual balance shafts and is surprisingly smooth. With the factory rubber mounts, and a good tune-up, it was barely perceptible from inside the car. My daily driver Saturn, with no balance shafts, on the other hand never lets you forget it's up there working! My engine guy really wants me to remove the balance shafts because they're worth 5hp, but I refuse. That's one of the areas where I compromise on the full race thing for something I think I will enjoy. If I lose a race because of that 5hp - so be it, I had fun trying. 

I have a friend with a Pro Street car that is really a drag car with a production car body shell hanging on it, lights, and plates. It's all solid mounted, and the floors and firewalls are bolted (hundreds of little screws in place of the normal rivets), aluminum sheet - it's a thrill. Yes, everything is buzzing and vibrating and it adds exponentially to the sensation of speed and thrills. 





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...I'm a bit worried about the electric motor mounts. I assume a chain will transmit the power. This will pull hard on one end of the motor relative to the other end. It seems like you need plates parallel to the end bells, or triangulated mounts.


The chain will actually be turning a jackshaft running parallel to, and just in front of the motor. Chains will drive the axles from that. The motor sits right in front of the firewall, and pretty much hidden from view, the back of the mount will be anchored into the roll cage, through the firewall and inside the cowl. It will literally have to twist the entire roll cage structure to move at all on that mount, plus all the .250" steel plates that are supporting and clamping it.

If I manage to do that, while driving the front wheels, it will be the most fun mistake I have ever made in life.  My guess is that with the torque of an 11" motor, the front tires don't stand a chance of providing that much resistance, and will merely be a brief supplement to help the rear tires recover and find a hint of traction. 

I really don't take any of these concerns, comments, and suggestion lightly either - I go back over my entire design every time, and I just don't see it budging. I'm listening though...





DavidDymaxion said:


> ...Thumbs up on the cage strengthening the car. Why not build the cage to NHRA specs? It doesn't seem like much more, if any, work and would be a nice byline if nothing else...


I tried. Every time I try to follow those rule books (NHRA and SCTA) it kills the project for me. It's not much more work, it's a serious compromise on the design issues. One of the points of this build was to get my personal desires out of the way, so the Inhaler Model E can be what it needs to be. With that project, I was having a serious conflict of interest between what I wanted to design and what they allow you to do. I decided to take "me" out of the equation with this project - a place where I can "play" uninhibited. When we get back to that car, I expect it will conform to the rules more. Here, I refuse. I will build something safe, but not by their standards of "safe".

My engine guy and I talk about this a lot. A guy/gal with a new supercar would get kicked off the track because they don't have a roll cage, or a this or that, but I'd put my money on those cars being just as safe at the speeds they are capable of as the old Camaro with the spec cage. The new car will likely look worse, after a crash, because the crumple zones will do their job, but the driver will feel just as good or better. Some sanctioning bodies are notoriously slow to upgrade their standards - I think NHRA still mandates carburetors in the Pro classes!






DavidDymaxion said:


> ...It's great stuff, and I'm not claiming to be an expert. As usual I'll enjoy learning from your reply...


Thanks again! I appreciate all feedback, and I'll try to make this a fun journey.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I've been trying to decide whether to try to find someone to cast the base for the intake plenum, or someone to machine it. Since it's a simple part, I decided to play with it in Pro/E today. After being "told", repeatedly, that what I wanted to do wasn't possible  I am leaning towards casting. Here's the unfinished Pro/E model. If I continue to develop this model, I'll cut the ports, and then start adding more sculpture.









Next, I'll show why I prefer to work in Rhino so much, with a proper "Todd" version of this. Surface modeling rocks!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The (Rhino) surface modeling version.








I can actually fix the dimples in the end surfaces in the model, but I am tempted to just leave them and fix them in the CNC cut plug - unless, I decide to machine it from billet aluminum, or print it for casting.

There's supposed to be a recess in the flange area where the carbon fiber bonds to the aluminum (yes, there will be a barrier to prevent galvanic reaction ) to create a locking dimple (like an o-ring) but that would be an undercut that CNC machining can't do without a bunch of extra setups. If I decide to 3D print this plug, I will add them. Other wise they'll be a separate process - maybe just two slots, milled manually, on the upper and lower horizontal surfaces.

Guess which one I'm going with (solid or surface model)?  If it doesn't make any power (or kills some), at least it will look good _not_ doing it!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The shifter is coming along. The main plate is cut and smoothed out enough to start positioning the shifter. We cut the mounting tabs from .250" steel, mainly so that they won't look like sheet metal on the relatively massive I-beam mount. The top and bottom plates are almost ready, so we can roll those and start building the I-beam soon.


















We also started carving out the rocker arms, again from .250" steel for the main sections. They'll get vertical ribs between the pivots. The larger one will have a spherical center bearing, so it can swing in all four directions with the shifter. The selector's rocker arm, just needs a plain bearing.











Every so often I add the newly modeled parts and new ideas to the composite mock-up, to see how it all works together - I like! 








Case in point: I spent the morning today modeling a bright idea to put the throttle body in the center of the plenum, doing a mirror image of the back end to replace it, and increasing the size of the center. Then I hung the throttle body under the bottom, and angled back in towards the engine. It seemed like a great idea, and even looked good in CAD, but actually took something away from the whole, when I added it to this mock-up model. The whole theme with this car is to emphasize mechanical functions, and present them as art. Smoothing over, and hiding, them actually takes something away from the car. It either looks like something is missing, or is being purposely covered up - as if there is a problem with it.

An interesting detail in this rendering is an idea I would really like to do - the motor controller is in an oval glass clock dome (just in front of the motor, and behind the grille). If I use two small jackshafts, each being driven from it's respective side of the motor, I can keep the chains close to the frame rails, opening up the center for the controller. The dome is just because I am Todd.  Of course, it might be a better idea to have it blown in polycarbonate than an actual glass dome, with four drive chains flanking it, and an open grille (rocks) in front of it.  This would also likely mandate an open source controller because I doubt any of the manufacturers would want their internals hanging out in public view. 

This whole idea led me to discover a little technical issue I didn't realize. Since switching to the 11" motor, with chain drive, I don't have a differential. I have to come up with some way to create one before the chains are hooked up. Ultimately, I would like to have a small 4.5" dry race clutch on each chain drive system, with electric actuators or stepper motors controlling the engagement/disengagement, and a small computer to create an electronic differential. I can incorporate the factory Honda wheel speed sensors on these drive hubs, so it's possible, someday...

The shift knobs on the dash are for the selecting the drive mode. (Electric motor) Forward, neutral, reverse on one lever; ICE, Electric, Combined, Launch, on the other one.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

This might sound funny, but this is the first time since starting this project that I can actually imagine myself driving it! I have been so absorbed with sifting through plans to find something I really like, and solving all the technical hurdles of each idea, that I had never really considered how _I_ would actually feel driving Schism. I have taken it for mental test drives since before the first part was ordered, and the first post was made here, but my focus was always 100% on how all the parts and systems would work together, how it would handle in various conditions, and how it would relate aesthetically to its surroundings; never how I would feel driving it. Even when I made statements about the driving experience they were really more about the technical capabilities of the vehicle, than my feelings. Like, burying the throttle with both drives engaged, and cranking the (1.5 turns lock to lock) steering a half turn to the left - I know what that would result in, and it would be a spectacular event! 

That shifter put me _in_ the vehicle. Yesterday, after getting it positioned on the mount, I sat in the passenger side (fiberglass seat is still too flimsy and itchy to sit in) and reached out to it with my left hand - like I was across the pond with Woody. I wanted to make sure the height and location were okay - it fell right into my hand. That experience clicked the switch on! By the time I went to bed last night I was imagining myself snicking that shifter into 1st gear (with the _right_ hand Woody ) and driving away. The actual vehicle had faded out of consciousness (for the first time), and the impression was 100% about how I felt - A-W-E-S-O-M-E!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I sat in the passenger side and reached out to it with my left hand - like I was across the pond with Woody. I wanted to make sure the height and location were okay - it fell right into my hand. That experience clicked the switch on!
> 
> ...the impression was 100% about how I felt - A-W-E-S-O-M-E!


See, this is why we drive on the correct side of the road over here!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> See, this is why we drive on the correct side of the road over here!


 (Nice editing)


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With the Model E, the steering wheel is a command center, and will require a lot of CAD/CNC machining to realize. I stopped working on it because I am not satisfied with any of the CNC shops I've tried to work with, and the Columbus Idea Foundry still has not purchased their own mill. I didn't want to finish machining the wood rim because it is supposed to be held captive between the aluminum rim and spokes. Without those parts, I was concerned that the rim would slowly deform over time, becoming unusable after a while. So, the block of wood just sits aging gracefully, until we're ready to resume.

With Schism, the steering wheel has one function - go that way!  Continuing with the hand-fabricated philosophy of this build, I started working on the plans for Schism's steering wheel. It's profile cut aluminum sheet, that can be done on the ShopBot. The rim is a simple cut. The spokes will be unrolled, cut, and then hammerformed to follow the shape of the original cast iron Model T spider (shown here - the aluminum spoke sections haven't been modeled yet). It will actually just be a cosmetic cover over the aluminum sheet metal spokes.








The wood rim halves will each be machined from a single piece of lumber (unless Woody catches me, and tells me I can't do it), and assembled on the aluminum rim with 1/4-20, 12pt head, stainless bolts and barrel nuts, in place of the traditional rivets. In the renderings the bolts obviously haven't been countersunk into the wood yet - still thinking about what type of countersink I want (radiused or straight walls). I haven't decided how I want to end the spokes either. They have to be cropped off and refinished to fit the smaller diameter rim.

The 5-hole piece in the center is an aluminum part I kept from a previous project that matches a bunch of other parts (electric motor/mode selector on the dash of the last CAD rendering posted here, fuel filler trim ring, pedal pads, and mirrors).

The point here is to combine new and old, as is the case with this entire car. It's an old Model T design (cast iron spoke, reverse dished, wood rimmed), with modern twists (sport shaped wood rim, in halves, and "riveted" to an aluminum rim plate).


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> The wood rim halves will each be machined from a single piece of lumber (unless Woody catches me, and tells me I can't do it),


Have you thought about steam bending a hoop and then shaping that? The ends would need to be spliced at a gentle angle.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Have you thought about steam bending a hoop and then shaping that? The ends would need to be spliced at a gentle angle.


Yup, actually I have. You've no doubt noticed that that's what I did in the model texture, even though it won't be so sexy in real life.  Unfortunately, I think it's outside the scope of our time and resources. We would have to rig up a steamer, test and learn, successfully bend two real hoops, and then finally get around to machining the grips. I've steamed some smaller, thin, parts before and it's fun and rewarding to see the grain follow the shape, but we're stretched pretty thin on available time and talent because so much of this car is being hand fabricated from raw materials.


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> The dome is just because I am Todd.  Of course, it might be a better idea to have it blown in polycarbonate than an actual glass dome, with four drive chains flanking it, and an open grille (rocks) in front of it.


Well, you wouldn't have to have anything blown if you picked out some available UV-stabilized polycarbonate shapes:

http://www.edee.com/specialshapes.htm

I especially like the imported polycarbonate polydome. Not quite big enough as a cube, but if you sliced the bottoms off of two of them and joined them with a center Todd mount/bracket, you'd have plenty of room inside for the controller and cooling pump. (Which presupposes another suggestion: a tiny cooling radiator for the controller in the cut down Ford T shell, maybe even all in BRASS...) Anyway, having the conductors and cooling lines from the controller all emerging gland nutted from the various facets of the polydomes and routed cleanly out in the open would be very cool. 

You could even use the bottoms (or ends, if you go that way and mount the polydomes to a base plate for the controller) somewhere else on the car (12V fuse block cover, gauge bezels?) to bring the styling together.

Just an idea...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> Well, you wouldn't have to have anything blown if you picked out some available UV-stabilized polycarbonate shapes:
> 
> http://www.edee.com/specialshapes.htm
> ...


Nice Tom!  I like the price. This gives me ideas, of course.  I'm still partial to the traditional old style dome. Technically, there is around double the volume in a 10" dome, as there is in a 500 amp Open Revolt case. So, perhaps, there is enough space to build a 1000 amp version in a tall round dome, with custom PCBs, buss bars (plates?), etc, and a little creative arrangement?

On the extreme side, if I used the 12" diameter dome, and cropped the sides a little, for chain/sprocket clearance, I would, technically, have enough volume for the internal components of a Soliton 1! . I wonder if Jeff and Seb would have a warrant issued for my arrest if I bought one, split it open and started rearranging the components...





TomA said:


> ...a...Todd mount/bracket...








TomA said:


> ...(Which presupposes another suggestion: a tiny cooling radiator for the controller in the cut down Ford T shell, maybe even all in BRASS...) Anyway, having the conductors and cooling lines from the controller all emerging gland nutted from the various facets of the polydomes and routed cleanly out in the open would be very cool...


I was planning to route the cooling for all the elctronic drive components back to a cooler with the ICE radiator and intercooler, but that is worth a good look - especially the brass idea.  I do like the thought of exploiting the cooling apparatus for the components inside the dome. That has science fiction written all over it! 





TomA said:


> ...Just an idea...


Easy for you to say. You're probably in REM now, while my mind is stuck in high gear, with this dome stuff!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We chipped away at more fabrication yesterday. Evan has the front crossmember front plate almost ready to start working into the frame. That's hand hammered.










Ahmed has been blending the welds on the rear crossmember. I'm starting to think this is a zen experience for him because he just seems to get lost in it, then emerges hours later with beautiful work like this.










Shifter and selector rocker arms have been rough cut. Now the sculpturing begins.








Another intern, Rohan, cut and shaped two little tabs to mount the shifter's selector arm, and I finished them up, and drilled the holes, but forgot to take a pic of them. That little rectangle is the base they'll be welded to, that will be welded to the I-beam mount. The little tabs are .1875" steel, and that base piece is .250", all to give use enough material to grind the welded assembly into something sexy. 

Typical of me, it's a piece that will be very hard to see again after the seats are in, but I know it's there. Ever see a car that you find something else neat to look at, no matter how long you stare? This kind of attention to detail is what creates that.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

That 10" polycarbonate dome could easily swallow a 1K amp, Paul & Sabrina, mosfet, Open Revolt controller - I think with room to spare to tuck in contactors, and a small controller for the SepEx motor's field. It looks incredible, IMO. 

















I used pics of Paul's current progress on EcoModder, the size of the caps, and what I could find in his descriptions of the size as a basis for the model. Somewhere in that monster thread I think I remember him giving the overall size, but my eyes started glazing over trying to find it again. He gave a height of 3.25" for the internal assembly (I believe that's not counting the base plate), and the caps are .886" in diameter (1.979 tall), so I had enough info for a rough sketch. My version uses a T-shaped cold plate, that gives me room to mount the other controller, and other items that could benefit from a little heat transfer.

This would be awesome at night with some very subtle lighting (not stick-on strings of LEDs ). Well placed, hidden LEDs maybe to add a soft and warm, but simultaneously "alien spacecraft", green glow.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Drum roll... (bumping the page, because I hate when a new post fill of pictures is the last one on the page)


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I could go on forever about how awesome my crew is. They just show up, day after day, and continue to cut and grind a _Todd_ (read: ridiculously over the top) hot rod out of raw metal.

Evan hammered out the muffler pocket plates today, and I welded them in. Next, Ahmed will go all zen on the crossmember and blend the welds.









We also got the rear frame caps tacked in place.











Kez got the first door bar notched and ready, and I tacked it in place.



















And, I got the shifter's selector arm mount welded up and tacked on.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

You've got a pretty talented crew there, Todd.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> You've got a pretty talented crew there, Todd.


Thanks Mike - they're freakin awesome. This is the first time most of them have ever done this type of metal fabrication. The ones who have, never on this level (of insanity), but they all just accept the challenge and completely own it.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Has Schism developed a Woody look and feel recently?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Has Schism developed a Woody look and feel recently?


You're darn tootin it has!  I thought about you more than a few times over the past couple/few weeks, as we continue to cut and grind parts from heavy gauge steel. 

The combination of needing to be able to build this car almost completely in-house, and wanting the parts to look like they're old cast iron, forced us in that direction. Normally, I would have a machine following my CAD models through a piece of billet aluminum, and have at least an eye towards keeping everything as light as possible. I had to, reluctantly, sacrifice both of those for progress and appearance.

That little selector arm mount is a prime example, and I was definitely thinking about you as I was working on it yesterday. The base is .250" steel, and the arms are .1875". That was as thin as I could go and maintain the heavy cast iron look with the edges rounded. The shift rocker arm mount is next and it's going to be all .250" plate, welded, blended, and rounded, because I need that much steel to get the look I'm after. It's really a tiny little part too.

I could design this stuff in Pro/E, in sheetmetal and run FEA on the parts and get the same look and structural integrity (the way the manufacturers do it) but then I would have ten times the labor in each part, to save (maybe) 100-150lbs, overall. It's just a toy, like your tractor, so I'll take the weight penalty for the smiles.  In sheetmetal most of these parts would have to have hand hammered rolled edges, and steel bushings in the center - very time consuming; plus the time to model and test them.

This new, handcrafted, almost-all-fabricated, plan has allowed me to reclaim Schism, by the way. I am thoroughly enjoying the car again - it finally feels like it's _mine_ again. And, yes, you were my inspiration Woodster. 

I also have quite a bit of actual wood going on this car too but, ironically, it will be done mostly by CAD/CNC - the one truly "Todd" process I have full control over.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

After a weekend off to attend the Goodguy's PPG Nats Car Show, we're back in the shop. Today was a light day, with some precision work on the shifter that needed to be done carefully. I also had to do some last minute research and design to solve a couple issues with it. The center gets a spherical bearing that allows it to simultaneously pivot laterally and longitudinally, with the shifter. I called on the metalworking guy in the complex, and he dug up a machinist's grade hole boring mill that was the exact size I needed, then took over the project completely boring the hole and turning the sleeve (a slice of tubing) to accept the bearing. All I had to do was lightly sand the outer surface, and tap it in the rocker arm. 











I figured out a location for the selector arm pivot, that will (hopefully) allow the two rocker arms to miss each other as they dance through the gears, and had one of the interns cut the mount for it (first piece on the left). Tomorrow he'll smooth this out, and then it gets some hammerforming to roll up and forward to the arm. It's basically going to become a very elaborate clevis mount.











The shift rocker arm is going to get a cap with structural ribs welded on one side, and bolted to the other side to allow removal/replacement of the bearing. That little curved, scroll-like, doodad is the clevis mount for this arm (that's two pieces bolted together for grinding to match).










The reason I shifted gears and have the guys doing stuff like this shifter is to find out what Team members have the patience and skills for doing these perfectionist tasks, and what type of work each person is best suited for. There will be a lot of really small details, that I will insist on being perfect. That's a good test.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The rear crossmember is coming along. This is what I saw in my head when I started modeling in CAD.










The front crossmember front plate is now tacked in.










I trimmed the seats down today. They will have a small, Todd-style, rolled bead around the perimeter.


















More progress on the shifter. The selector rocker arm mount has been smoothed out a bit, and hammered to shape, and the scrolled ends for the clevis mount are almost there.









Starting tomorrow, the top and bottom plates of the I-beam get hammered to fit. Evan smacked it a few times today, just to make sure he understood where to go with it tomorrow morning.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Mere words and phrases like over-the-top, overkill, ridiculous, crazy, don't even scratch the surface of the madness that is my shifter!  Evan is kickin azz on the I-beam plates. This thing is going to be strong enough to support the people sitting alongside it!


















Kyle cut these little strips, which will be the vertical ribs on the shift rocker arm; and I turned a couple pieces of tubing to make the end caps. They will be trimmed down to about a quarter of an inch wide (the outer portions), and sculptured a little, then the ribs welded on. The recessed area fits inside to center and trap the bearing. I'm thinking about making them both removable now, instead of welding one side on. I like the seam.


























Kez got the other door bar notched and fit, and I tacked it in. I like this cage so much better.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I've been fighting with my computer to get the mesh insert for the grille formed for a while. I was trying to "hammer" the recessed pocket for the logo to sit in, and it was a serious memory hog. It took just about a gig of memory just for some of these operations. The software has to do a lot of math, when you tell it to bend an already bent, tubular, surface without losing the orginal geometry. 

















The latest theme (of bare metal finished chassis, all-exposed carbon fiber body parts) calls for the grille shell to be carbon fiber, and the mesh to be stainless steel wire. The ends will be connected to the shell with copper nipples, like a car or bike wire wheel (you'll be able to see the nipples on the outsides of the shell). My Bat-T emblem will be cast in the same metal as the nipples. All metal will be bare or satin coated. Carbon fiber shell will be fully exposed.

And, yes, I'm aware of, and have plans to prevent, galvanic reaction. 

The resident casting guy is up for casting my intake manifold flange. Hopefully there will be pics and video of that whole process (CAD to CNC to casting) soon.


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

It just keeps getting better. I'm at the edge of my seat. Question: The fiberglass resin can in the seat photos looks like bondo brand. Is it polyester resin? Is it much different than epoxy resin I've used on small boats? I want to make a few fiberglass parts for my car.

Keep up the good work, and I hope you provide beer or equivalent for your crew after a hard week of work in the heat.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Joey said:


> It just keeps getting better. I'm at the edge of my seat...


Thanks Joey!  We're just getting warmed up. 





Joey said:


> ...Question: The fiberglass resin can in the seat photos looks like bondo brand. Is it polyester resin? Is it much different than epoxy resin I've used on small boats? I want to make a few fiberglass parts for my car...


Epoxy should be much better quality, and often has a longer working time. Cheap polyester (like that Bondo) resin is more forgiving of incorrect mixing ratios (allowing me to purposely alter it for certain tasks), but has a narrow window of working time. The other drawback is that it is much more heat sensitive than a decent epoxy. I think it starts to lose the battle at around 140-degrees, making it one of the reasons fiberglass gets a bad rap sometimes. A cheap fiberglass fender in the weather we've been having here in Ohio, in the sun, might be a different shape by the end of the day. 

I use polyester for prototyping and roughing parts in, because it's cheap. Most of these parts will end up in the dumpster, and we can control the environment in the shop, so no sense wasting money on expensive resin for them.





Joey said:


> ...Keep up the good work, and I hope you provide beer or equivalent for your crew after a hard week of work in the heat.


You're saying we should actually do something to thank them?!  Just kidding!  We find creative ways to show our appreciation, including food and drink.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

That looks cool Todd. I wish I had CAD skills  

I'm waiting on Epoxy right now. Easy choice for me. I'm allergic to the polyester.

Of course I'm still floored by all the "hammered" metal parts you have. Kinda like a modern day blacksmith building his horseless carriage.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> That looks cool Todd. I wish I had CAD skills ...


Thanks Mike.  The funny thing is I actually learned it because I couldn't find someone dependable to model one stinkin, simple, part for me! A lot of my personal skills were acquired that way, because I wasn't patient enough to wait..





madmike8 said:


> ...Of course I'm still floored by all the "hammered" metal parts you have. Kinda like a modern day blacksmith building his horseless carriage.


Or modern day Roman warriors making chariots! 

Hammerforming is fun, at least to me and my crazy crew, and the upside is you end up with some really strong, kickazz, parts. That front crossmember front plate Evan hammered feels like it could stop Superman. Before it was tacked in, if you dropped it on the shop floor the resultant ring screamed, "I am invincible!"

There is a pretty good blacksmith in the facility as well - but he cheats and uses heat. We hammer our parts from cold steel.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> The ends will be connected to the shell with copper nipples, like a car or bike wire wheel (you'll be able to see the nipples on the outsides of the shell).


You need to find someone who has a Phil Wood spoke cutting and thread rolling machine.

I have a friend, Dylan Thomas of Your Spokes in York, UK who has one and it is a great tool to use.
It would be easy, if you know the length of stainless steel spoke you need, to have both ends rolled prior to crimping to get the mesh form.

You could even look at aero spokes to get a flat aero profile in the mesh for effect and retain the round section for the thread.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Hey Woody! Those grille bars are .1875 or .250" wire - a bit thicker than a bike spoke. 

I'm going to try to find someone to do the mesh bars on a CNC wire bender from my models.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Hey Woody! Those grille bars are .1875 or .250" wire - a bit thicker than a bike spoke.
> 
> I'm going to try to find someone to do the mesh bars on a CNC wire bender from my models.


Ha ha, I wasn't paying as much attention. Weekend time with Arch.

Looks like someone will be busy making giant spoke nipples then.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Ha ha, I wasn't paying as much attention. Weekend time with Arch.
> 
> Looks like someone will be busy making giant spoke nipples then.


Haha! Yup! I'll probably model them, 3D print them, and have them cast.


This piece is turning out beautifully. This is what's going to happen with every fabricated part on the car, eventually. A little more detail work and this puppy will be ready to weld and blend into the frame.



























Starting on the roll bar stanchion crossmembers.











I made a little more progress on the shift rocker arm. The caps are cut to size and hand filed a little to fit. I bored a hole in the bolt to create four mounting bushings for the caps (first round thing I saw the right size ). The bushings will fit on the (top and bottom) outside edges of the caps. I was going to weld the ribs to the caps but, after playing with it, and thinking about it, I might weld them to the rocker arm, with a concave edge that the bushings fit into. After I get all the parts cut and fit, I'll have a better idea which one I prefer











The shifter's I-beam mount is dangerously close to being welded up and blended. This is another piece that I can't wait to show the planned details on - there will be curves in every direction.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With a few of the roll cage's main tubes in place, it was time to see how the seats and roll cage were working with the 1919 doorless theme. I like it.  It's a curious mix of new and old.




















We also started cutting and preparing some of the tiny little pieces that will be go on the shift rocker arm.. These little pieces are going to come together as a very unique it'll part.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Even finished hammering the plates, so yesterday I welded the I-beam shifter mount up - massive, ridiculous, badazz - a true Todd kind of hot rod part!  Next come the rocker arm mounts, and hours and hours of grinding and shaping.



























With that firmly underway, we've started on the floor-mount pedal assembly. More steel plate (mostly .250", purposely over-engineered for abuse tolerance), plasma cut, grind, grind, grind. We're using the pivots, and crank sections, of the Honda Accord brake pedals with our own foot lever sections. I was going to keep the ratio the same to keep the Honda feel, but Schism is so small that we need to reduce the overall size, so the effort will be increased a bit.








The funny-shaped (un-cut) piece is the main mounting plate. It will have a clevis that straddles the left front frame rail, and the little arm section will bolt to the front lateral main box frame section. The arms will be in clevises that extend up off the main plate. The slots are for the crank sections to reach down under the floor. They'll push rods extending back to rear mounted master cylinders, just behind the driver's seat. Access to them will be gained by flipping that seat up and opening an access panel. The ECU, fuses, etc, will located behind the passenger seat, and accessed the same way.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I forgot this one. Now that the rear crossmember is taking shape, we were able to resume work on the rear motor mount - specifically, the main gusset. A little more trimming and shaping and this will be ready to weld.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I really like the curved I beam shape of that gear shift bracket.
Are you going to grind and blend in the welds?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I really like the curved I beam shape of that gear shift bracket.
> Are you going to grind and blend in the welds?


Thanks Woody.  You betcha we are; as well as grinding and shaping the actual top and bottom plates!  The top plate will be ever so slightly convex on the upper surface. I haven't made up my mind on the lower plate, as I would like to see what I see with the welds blended a little and the top plate shaped.

As I want to finish Schism in bare materials (metals, carbon fiber, etc), I'm thinking about using lead to finish the last imperfections in the fabricated steel parts (not shaping - filling little pit marks, and deep grinding scratches, etc). I, admittedly, don't know much about it, and haven't done it before. I think it would be an awesome learning experience for the Team though, and would give Schism an extra dose of aesthetic and marketing appeal (as well as pounds - this car is going to be so _not_ "Todd" in the weight department ). It would be doubly cool to find some old school guy/gal to come teach how how. 

Anyone here with experience, advise, words of wisdom, or caution, on old school leading? I'm not married to the idea, but it would solve the problem of how to have the bare metal look I want, with the finish I insist on, (without dozens of spools of MIG wire, and tank after tank of gas). When I've see pictures of guys doing old school leading, after it was finished, you couldn't tell the lead from the steel.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've re-worked leaded sheet metal but never applied it from scratch. Hazardous stuff to work with but very nice to work.

You can get leading kits I think that gives you all the flux and stuff to do a good job of it. Just need the respirator and heat.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...You can get leading kits I think that gives you all the flux and stuff to do a good job of it. Just need the respirator and heat.


And scrap parts to mess up while we learn!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The push is on for me now to get most of my ideas underway, or at least mocked-up, to find out how it all works together, and where changes may be needed. I've been at it all week, sacrificing sleep for progress. Today, I cut the foam dash plug. Along with the shifter, and pedals, we have to hang the steering column, and the dash and electric motor controls, to find out just how little room there is inside that tiny cowl.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I like vehicle interiors that are design statements, not just traditional interior components with special coverings and finishes. I get why most need to be that way, but for radical custom projects, why not go beyond "normal" inside too? The major manufacturers do with their concept vehicles, and some of the higher end hot rod/custom builds _go there_. With Schism, I'm trying to make the interior look scupltured, like it was carved from stone, and hammered from metal, by ancient Romans and Greeks; more chariot than car. Now that we're starting to hang parts in there, that theme is beginning to become more perceptible, I hope...

























The contrasting bare materials will be like an inverted image of these renderings, but I like how they work together.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The pedals are coming along. The main mounting plate is ready, the pedal levers and pad mounting plates have been cut and ground, the pivots from the Honda pedals have been cut out and fit to the levers. I think we'll be able to get the assembly tacked together today. The clutch and brake pedal levers need to be hammered to curve towards the center of the car a little bit, to clear the roll cage tube that will run beside them, and then I have to design brackets that will mount them to the main plate. I need the pedals to determine the height.

The mount for the mode/motor control switch assembly is also underway.










Another piece of the roll cage puzzle in place - one of the roll bar stanchion crossmembers. The other side is cut and almost ready to go in. After that the little center crossmember, then we start tying the car together, front to back.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The pedal assembly is coming together.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Rear motor mount gussets, and the rear crossmember, tacked in, and the pedal pivot brackets welded to the mounting plate.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Then there were three (pedals). I will probably have to wear driving shoes to really push the limits in this one. I can manage to keep my feet centered on the right pedal, with the close spacing, in my sneakers but that wouldn't be easy in extreme situations.









I also finally decided what to do with the throttle pedal, and modeled it. I'm fairly certain we're going to cast it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

More pics coming soon. We're still working on those pedals. We have the clutch and brake mounting pads tack welded to the levers, and drilled (but not tapped) to accept the aluminum covers. It's amazing how much time little areas like this can absorb. My partner has commented quite a bit on how much a scratch-built vehicle like this goes together and comes apart (he leads tours through the facility and never knows whether he will see a car or a pile of parts, lol) - this pedal assembly has been together and apart more times than we can remember.

The big news though is a new intern inteviewed yesterday. She has a BA in Physics, and is currently pursuing her Ph.D. in EE at OSU (_dig_ all the powerful letters, man, lol!). She wants to tackle the Open Revolt controller, so we may have finally found our person for the job. Evan, the intern who has been hammering, cutting, and grinding, so furiously is changing his major to EE (from ME) this fall, so he will also be active in the development.

We're going to do a 1000 amp MOSFET version, under the poly clock dome (thanks Tom). Depending on how that goes, we may work on something specific for the SepEx motor. We are going to work truly open source, so hopefully we'll develop something good for the DIY EV community, and also for the SepEx people.

Stay tuned... 

Re-posted to support the above:








I chose MOSFET over IGBT for Schism simply because I think the 25 capacitors look better under glass.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

That is exciting. Adding sepex capability to the Open Revolt controller would be a great thing, I'll definitely be watching with interest! It'll be fun to compare your sepex system to mine.


toddshotrods said:


> More pics coming soon. We're still working on those pedals. We have the clutch and brake mounting pads tack welded to the levers, and drilled (but not tapped) to accept the aluminum covers. It's amazing how much time little areas like this can absorb. My partner has commented quite a bit on how much a scratch-built vehicle like this goes together and comes apart (he leads tours through the facility and never knows whether he will see a car or a pile of parts, lol) - this pedal assembly has been together and apart more times than we can remember.
> 
> The big news though is a new intern inteviewed yesterday. She has a BA in Physics, and is currently pursuing her Ph.D. in EE at OSU (_dig_ all the powerful letters, man, lol!). She wants to tackle the Open Revolt controller, so we may have finally found our person for the job. Evan, the intern who has been hammering, cutting, and grinding, so furiously is changing his major to EE (from ME) this fall, so he will also be active in the development.
> 
> ...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

DavidDymaxion said:


> That is exciting. Adding sepex capability to the Open Revolt controller would be a great thing, I'll definitely be watching with interest! It'll be fun to compare your sepex system to mine.


Hopefully, it will pan out and develop some useful DIY products and technology. 



I've been too busy marching back and forth across 24,000 sq-ft of shop to remember to take pictures (I really need to get Scrape running just to ride around the shop on ), but here are a couple teasers. I have the throttle pedal pad plug machined from a scrap piece of plywood, and half of the plenum flange from foam. The pedal pad just needs the holes drilled through and some detailing and it will be ready for aluminum casting










When I get the other side of the plenum flange machined tomorrow, I will glue them together, machine a wooden fixture plate, and glue the flange to it. The internal runners have to be machined in a separate operation. Machining the fixture plate, and keeping it screwed down to the table, gluing the foam core to it, and then machining from the same zeroed coordinates will hopefully cut the runners perfectly.  It worked earlier on the little lip around the flange where the carbon fiber gets bonded to it (yes, I know about galvanic reaction/corrosion ). I forgot to add the extra recess in it that will help lock the carbon fiber plenum to it under boost. I left the foam core on the ShopBot, quickly created a CAD model for just that recess, and cut the recess perfectly, without harming the rest of the perfectly cut plug. It's CAD/CAM - as long as you don't lose your original coordinates, it will go back to the exact same place every time, unless something is off/wrong with the CNC machine.


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> (yes, I know about galvanic reaction/corrosion )


You must have this set to a hot key or something.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

GizmoEV said:


> You must have this set to a hot key or something.


 Darn cops are always hiding, waiting for the chance to attack - you have to be proactive with the countermeasures. 

We are set to do some aluminum casting Saturday morning/afternoon... 

I still have to finish the plenum flange, and have to cut a plug for Scrape's motor mount, and we'll have three things to play with Saturday. I'm trying to coordinate with the intern that's been doing the video for Columbus IDea Foundry, to capture everything in pics and video - will share here for sure.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

These will rise up from the frame to support the back end of the rear upper control arm mounting plate (fits in the notch on top). They'll be braced with a second plate, perpendicular to these, that welds to the front of each one, and also serves as gussets at each intersection. Roll cage bars running back from the roll bar stanchions will end inside the holes. The tail lights will be inside the end of those tubes, with custom acrylic lenses, and turned aluminum trim rings that match the pattern of the other aluminum trim pieces.


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Hey Todd. Nice work.

A few things...

Are your pedal faces far enough proud of their brackets so that your feet are going to stay on them throughout their travel, and not wind up pushing on the edges of the brackets themselves toward the end of their arcs?

Have you thought about splitting the throttle pedal into two halves, on separate brackets, so that you could operate the drive systems independently, and adjust the bias through relative height, travel, and ultimately, just by rocking your foot across the peddle as you drive it? That would be pretty slick, and just the kind of mechanical control device you seem to love making...

Is there some reason that the cooling system tubes exit the anniversary clock dome to the rear, and not toward the radiator? 

Bite the bullet, dude, the T rad shell (and everything inside the dome, even if only plated,) needs to be BRASS, and git yer Todd-O-Meter up on top of it where it belongs... 

Some brass head/side/turn lights hanging off the cowl, scaled down and converted to LED, or some take on that idea, would add a faithful mid-'60s show rod touch, too. Just sayin'...

Love the progress.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> Hey Todd. Nice work.
> 
> ...Love the progress.


Thanks Tom!  I'm having a blast with this stuff!  The enjoyment actor increases exponentially with seeing how much my Team is growing in their fabrication skills, and the pride they're taking in their work. 






TomA said:


> ...A few things...
> 
> Are your pedal faces far enough proud of their brackets so that your feet are going to stay on them throughout their travel, and not wind up pushing on the edges of the brackets themselves toward the end of their arcs?...


I think so. They actually rock back more towards the driver, at rest, than I am able to show in the pics because there's nothing supporting them. I just find that magical balance point to shoot the pics. The aluminum pedal pads are an inch thick, and it seems like my feet will be squarely on the pads when the bracket hits the firewall. There are also going to be carbon fiber scuff covers for real driving, which will add a touch more distance from the actual lever; maybe an additional .125". It's a tough balancing act because the space is so restricted, and everything is being made from nothing, with little reference to base the design on. I can adjust the height of the driver's foot, in relation to the pads, slightly by putting a small dimple in the floor just behind the pedals, and having some type of removable filler pieces. That will help fine-tune the relationship between the pivot point and contact point/height of the foot on the pedal.






TomA said:


> ...Have you thought about splitting the throttle pedal into two halves, on separate brackets, so that you could operate the drive systems independently, and adjust the bias through relative height, travel, and ultimately, just by rocking your foot across the peddle as you drive it? That would be pretty slick, and just the kind of mechanical control device you seem to love making...


Me thinks you're a troublemaker!  That is tempting as heck, Tom!!!  I will be chewing on that and mentally driving around with it for a few days...







TomA said:


> ...Is there some reason that the cooling system tubes exit the anniversary clock dome to the rear, and not toward the radiator?...


Those are the buss bars for the Open Revolt Controller. I just copied what I saw in pics of the controller. The one that loops over the top was partially out of necessity and partially for show, just to get it to the same terminal block with the other buss bars. The cooling system tubes will exit, unseen from the bottom of the chill plate. Your insightful post in the water cooling thread had me thinking about not using a chill plate, but I think it would be best in this application, with the controller in that dome. I want fans to circulate air as well, but that's probably more to protect the polycarbonate. There's no radiator in that shell, by the way, the cooling lines will be plumbed to the ICE radiator in back - that shell is just for aesthetic purposes (give the car its identity).






TomA said:


> ...Bite the bullet, dude, the T rad shell (and everything inside the dome, even if only plated,) needs to be BRASS, and git yer Todd-O-Meter up on top of it where it belongs...


I'm not a fan of brass. I don't like gold either, or jewelry for that matter. When I was married, the only jewelry I would wear is a small white gold band. After all that work to bend those mesh bars around my Bat-T and you want me to move it?! 






TomA said:


> ...Some brass head/side/turn lights hanging off the cowl, scaled down and converted to LED, or some take on that idea, would add a faithful mid-'60s show rod touch, too. Just sayin'...


I have a pair of side view mirrors I made that are going on this car that you'll probably like. The plan is for them to pivot in and hide inside the cowl when parked. I do like your idea for a combined unit, so I will do a little experiment with integrating LED or HID headlights into them. I happen to have a chunk of 2.75" aluminum bar stock that would be perfect for carving a couple headlight shells out of, that could be TIG'd onto the back of the mirror heads...


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> There's no radiator in that shell, by the way, the cooling lines will be plumbed to the ICE radiator in back - that shell is just for aesthetic purposes (give the car its identity). ... I'm not a fan of brass.


 Understood, but to my mind any T rad shell that isn't brass just looks so Honest Charley cheap... Since its just a shroud, take a look at early Renault (and contemporary Edwardian era) nose shrouds for other ideas. Many cars then had the radiator in the cowl, not the nose. Nicer looking stuff, I think, and much more visually interesting. The Stanley Steamer is nice, too... 

I don't particularly like gold metals, either, but a Model T _is_ a brass era car. I'd go with something earlier visually if it were mine. 

BTW, I'm still married and I own exactly one piece of jewelry- my titanium wedding band. Indestructible, weighs about a gram, and cost $60...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

TomA said:


> BTW, I'm still married and I own exactly one piece of jewelry- my titanium wedding band. Indestructible, weighs about a gram, and cost $60...


OT.

Arch and I are looking at getting a couple of tiny titanium hose clamps (jubilee clips) as wedding bands. A friend is trying to 'acquire' some from a passenger jet during servicing so that we can do the environmentally aware thing of saying they are recycled/reused but have a billion air miles!

Loving the work Todd.
Not had much chance to comment as I am so busy shooting spammers and watching the Olympics. Spammer shooting, a new Olympic sport?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> Understood, but to my mind any T rad shell that isn't brass just looks so Honest Charley cheap... Since its just a shroud, take a look at early Renault (and contemporary Edwardian era) nose shrouds for other ideas. Many cars then had the radiator in the cowl, not the nose. Nicer looking stuff, I think, and much more visually interesting. The Stanley Steamer is nice, too...
> 
> I don't particularly like gold metals, either, but a Model T _is_ a brass era car. I'd go with something earlier visually if it were mine...


I'm not really going for any type of authentic antique appearance. It's really a modern _race_ car, rendered in an old style (I put race in italic because it's not really a hardcore race car it's a race car style toy). With a custom, perimeter-style, rectangular tube frame, fully visible full roll cage, exposed mid-engine drivetrain, SLA suspension front and rear, and wide sticky modern rubber at all four corners, I think it's pretty obvious that it's not really an old car, and doesn't pretend to be.

This has actually been one of my most enjoyable design projects, ever, because, in spite of the above, I am purposely causing the perception that Schism is actually an old car. People come through on tours of the facility and they see old hot rods. They bring up other old cars in the conversations. An old school hot rod artist named "Airbrush Jim" came in and we talked for over an hour about old hot rods and the hobby in general, just from the spark of him seeing my modern street rod/race cars dressed up like old hot rods! He likened them, and my personal style, to people like Ed Roth. Then, here, you see an old car that deserves a brass grille and lantern style lighting.  I take it all as a huge personal compliment, because it took a lot of years of doing this to develop this formula and format.

That was my long-winded way of saying sorry I can't do the brass, and period correct items that may seem to be the proper finishing touches, but I am really honored that you see that in my work. It's a compliment on the highest order, in my book. 





Woodsmith said:


> ...Loving the work Todd.
> Not had much chance to comment as I am so busy shooting spammers and watching the Olympics. Spammer shooting, a new Olympic sport?


Thanks Woody, and no problem. I figured you must be busy. How's the foot/ankle/leg?

Too bad we have that pond in the way, this would be so much fun with you in the shop - especially while we're whittling Woody-gauge steel into parts!


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Todd, just to make sure you understand me: you don't like brass, and I'm with you 100%. No genre policing here...

Do that dual throttle, though. You can make it work, and it would make the car an engineering standout, and much more satisfying operationally. Nobody expects to see that, and lots of people will tell you it can't be done, (or will introduce galvanic corrosion into the mercury amalgam fillings in your teeth.) 

I dare you to take it on. Consider yourself slapped with a glove, sir. How's that for troublemaking?


----------



## TomA (Mar 26, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> OT.
> 
> Arch and I are looking at getting a couple of tiny titanium hose clamps (jubilee clips) as wedding bands. A friend is trying to 'acquire' some from a passenger jet during servicing so that we can do the environmentally aware thing of saying they are recycled/reused but have a billion air miles!


I don't think Todd will mind a little info exchange on this, Woody.

My ring isn't 100% Titanium. Pure Ti is too hard to work and finish nicely, and my ring, like most titanium jewelry, is alloyed with aluminum and vanadium (90%Ti, 6%Al and 4%V,) which makes for a somewhat glossier surface and much cheaper tooling. Be sure to get a "comfort cut" on the ring if its over 3mm wide, which puts a softer radius on the inside of the band. 

Also, your titanium ring will mark porcelain easily and severely, like when running your hand around the sink bowl or washing the dinnerware, and the marks can only be removed with oxalic acid (Whink Rust remover in the US) and lots of effort. Ask my wife how I know...

Now back to your regularly scheduled Toddgramming...

TomA


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> Todd, just to make sure you understand me: you don't like brass, and I'm with you 100%. No genre policing here...








TomA said:


> ...Do that dual throttle, though. You can make it work, and it would make the car an engineering standout, and much more satisfying operationally...
> 
> ...I dare you to take it on. Consider yourself slapped with a glove, sir. How's that for troublemaking?


 Priceless! 





TomA said:


> ...lots of people will tell you it can't be done...


That's pretty much par for the course for me. 




TomA said:


> ...or will introduce galvanic corrosion into the mercury amalgam fillings in your teeth...


That's too funny!  (I think I have those too - bzzzt! ) 





TomA said:


> ...Now back to your regularly scheduled Toddgramming...


 He's a funny guy today!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> Thanks Woody, and no problem. I figured you must be busy. How's the foot/ankle/leg?
> 
> Too bad we have that pond in the way, this would be so much fun with you in the shop - especially while we're whittling *Woody-gauge steel* into parts!


LOL! 
I would love to be there and able to do something active, I miss it sooooo much at the moment.

My leg is better and I have finally started physio but I still have to wear an orthopedic boot for 23 hours a day and keep it elevated. 
However, Arch and I went out to a transport show at out local Science and Industry Museum today. We had a look around some proper old London Routemaster buses and then we went on a nostalgic ride in one. It was just like being a kid again.
It has worn me out as I walked, with crutches, 1 1/2 miles and it took all day to do it with frequent rests.

They also had the steam engines running in the 'Power Hall' and so I took a a little 'tongue in cheek' video to explain how they work.


As for spam busting I noticed that I spend a day off line and there are spammer reports all over the place! So glad that there are many of us on top of the reports and killing them off quickly. I've been monitoring all new members and getting spammers as they registered for a while and it seems to be making a small impact on the report level.



TomA said:


> I don't think Todd will mind a little info exchange on this, Woody.
> 
> My ring isn't 100% Titanium. Pure Ti is too hard to work and finish nicely, and my ring, like most titanium jewelry, is alloyed with aluminum and vanadium (90%Ti, 6%Al and 4%V,) which makes for a somewhat glossier surface and much cheaper tooling. Be sure to get a "comfort cut" on the ring if its over 3mm wide, which puts a softer radius on the inside of the band.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that Tom, we will bear it all in mind.
The plan was to get used titanium hose clips straight off an aeroplane in service. I have no idea what the alloy would be and doubt the edges will be as soft. I will need to get one to see, otherwise we will try to get a pair made.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

zsnemeth said:


> Just if You are using live rounds, blanks and virtual shooting don't count!


I wish I could use live rounds sometimes.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> ...They also had the steam engines running in the 'Power Hall' and so I took a a little 'tongue in cheek' video to explain how they work....


When I first scrolled down and saw that, I thought it was a pic of something you made.  Cool video, funny narration.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

TomA said:


> ...I dare you to take it on. Consider yourself slapped with a glove, sir. How's that for troublemaking?


You're on Tom!   (With a slight twist on the control method, that I'll explain later.) I can't resist it!  

Actually, it's the perfect control solution to suit Schism's "personality". Thanks for keeping the pot properly stirred Tom!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I've been trying to get these pics of the casting session online since Saturday! I was up all night Friday (only an "accidental" hour of sleep) to get the two plugs ready, then up until I "accidentally" crashed again for a few hours Saturday, ater the casting session. From there it was just all a blur. I worked Sunday and yesterday, and every time I tried to do the pics, I ended up unconscious behind my computer. Last night, I even managed to close the whole Photoshop file that I do these pics in -without saving it (the pics were almost ready to post - had to redo all of them! 

Anyway, here we go:

The wooden plug, sanded, filled a little, and almost ready.









It was painted painted black, to help it release from the sand, and the sand molds (I forget the actual casting jargon) packed around it.









Started a little campfire to toast some marshmallows over.

















In no time we had a crucible full of molten aluminum. We're just using scrap aluminum to test the process. He found a trick to use piece of (swimming pool) chlorine tablets to help de-gas it; seemed to work. The pour on this part was perfect; in the screw (pour hole) and out of the vent. It burped once, and settled down quickly - no drama.

















We now have a throttle pedal pad.
















Most of what you see will clean up, and the final result should be pretty awesome.

This was the good part...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

...Then, things took an evil twist.

This is what had me up all night - maching the intake plenum flange plug. I machined in it two halves (started over from the pink foam one a couple/few pages back, because I didn't have enough of that foam left...), hot glued them together, cut a fixture in a scrap piece of wood, and (with the ShopBot still zeroed over that fixture) hot glued the plug to the fixture, and cut the internal runners. Worked perfect - other than keeping me up so long. Because the hot glue was in the middle of each runner, the plug simply popped off, and with a little trimming was ready to go.

















The sand mold process on this one was interesting. He did the exterior side first, then spooned out the undercut area, which was captured along with the internal runners in the other half of the mold. Because I didn't have time to finish the surface of the internal runners we had trouble getting the sand to release from the foam.









Filled a larger crucible with scrap aluminum (remember we're just testing the shop's process and capability).









Started the pour.









And things quickly went downhill!  I think the problem was not enough screws and vents, for the size of the part. The pressure seemed to build up inside the mold and just blew its own way though the sand, eventually spilling out of the mold onto the floor. The first inch or so was turning out to be a perfect casting, maybe even better than the first one, then ka-boom!  I'll see if the carnage of this casting are still around and post a pic or two, if so.










Like a good horror movie, where they show an eye opening, or hand twitching, this glowing crucible sends the message that it's not over - we'll back! Actually, I just think this big one is so cool, I had to catch this shot.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Tom A, you owe me a work day!  When I told the guys about the dual function throttle pedal today, I lost them to the idea!  It was a blast, and they had good ideas for realizing it. More to come.









































I also realized today that the job of a head designer for a major firm has a serious down side. I've always worked by myself, especially in design. Even with the Team, I usually just hand over the fabrication tasks, after the design work has been completed. Today, was the most I've ever touched on the team or committee style of designing a part or system.

The down side is, in the end, you have to pick and choose elements that you feel are best for the project, and combine them into one final decision. I knew these guys were passionate about what they had developed, but also had to slice and dice their ideas for what was in the best interest of the project. Sorry guys!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I took a second look at the failed intake plenum flange casting and realized that we could save a modified version of it, so we did. We machined the top and bottom surfaces of the good part flat, and I am in the process of designing a new plenum. This is a good pic that shows what I am chasing - the ability to kind of visually track the airflow through the engine.


























Kez also started running the rear bars from the roll bar stanchions to the rear plates. It angles down from the cockpit, for a little hardtail-ish chopper flare. 









Busy intersection already, and we'll probably stuff a couple more bars in there.  There's going to be triangulation everywhere.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I started a thread in Techinical Discussion, but haven't received any replies, so I will ask here as well.

Does anyone know what OEM TPS (throttle position sensor) is best for a custom pot box?

*EDIT:* Nevermind, I get it now. I was under the impression that TP-Sensors were all Hall effect. I didn't realize that the older ones pretty much all just send a voltage signal to the ECU. That's makes it easy, I can just pick the one that best suits the design.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I backed the intake manifold design up to something much more simple. The plenum will be a _simple_ fabricated aluminum sheet metal, rounded, box. The throttle body (TB) will bolt directly to the top of it, and be capped off with a vintage, oil bath, style air cleaner. The devil will be in the details...









The details aren't present in this CAD rendering either, as it's just a rough sketch to see if I liked the look of a simple aluminum plenum and oil bath air cleaner. The sides of the air cleaner will roll under, kind of bowl-shaped; the top will have a recess in the center for my Bat-T logo emblem; and the top will be fastened with three or four "buckles" around the perimeter.

The air cleaner is actually just a hat for the boosted air to blow into the TB through. Also not present is the traditional air cleaner "snorkel", which will roll under and point towards the oil pan (where the tube will actually come from, bringing the fresh air charge). I'm thinking about making the connection of the snorkel to the air cleaner housing fairly obvious with it being seemingly attached by hand-docked, copper, rivets. (Yup, I'm aware of galvanic reaction.corrosion. )


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

This was actually done a couple days ago, but my schedule has been so crazy I am just getting the pics posted. Kez has both rear bars notched and ready to be tacked in. That means we can start connecting the dots on the rear suspension.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

One of the biggest hurdles in this project, has been coming up with upper suspension mounts that I liked. I have been trying for months, and everything I tried I hated. The breakthrough came when one of the Team members (Ahmed, the industrial design major) started drawing. I didn't ultimately use his idea, but it was the catalyst I needed. In the spirit of the rear plates we just carved out, here are the front mounts. Six pieces, almost self aligning, and we'll have front suspension! I only added two more brackets to each side, but the front sure does look busy; and there's more stuff to go in there! 









In the process, I also solved another dilemma - headlights. They visually extend the roll cage tubes through to the front, to match how the rear cage tubes end. The front can't go through both brackets because the axles pass through that space. These little miniature lights won't technically be legal, but here in the great state of Ohio, we can get away with a lot on custom vehicles. If they happen to pass the legislation that would allow me to register this as an actual 1919 Ford Model T, these lights will far exceed the factory specifications.  If not, I'll use regular street rod lights to get past inspection and take my chances that the cops won't really care in real life.

The plan is based on hollow aluminum spheres. Cut a hole for the lense on the front, fabricate Delrin-bushed pivot ball type clamping rings, and fit a 10-12w LED in the back. Adjustment is by loosening the clamp rings, rotating the ball, and locking the rings again. Initially, we'll just polish the inside of the sphere (the reflector surface), and probably have it chrome plated (on the inside only) later for a better reflective surface and less maintenance.

The design follows what we're doing in back for the tail lights. They'll be inside the rear cage bars, that poke through the rear chassis plates, with small five-bolt trim rings holding clear acrylic lenses.

Why wouldn't we make our own headlights? We're making everything else!


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Got a render with full bodywork, so I can see what the headlights look like? BTW you and your group are pretty amazing.

I'm recovering from my surgery, so hopefully I'll be able to start back on mine around the middle of September.

Mike


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Got a render with full bodywork, so I can see what the headlights look like?...


Full bodywork is really a relative term in this case, but yeah I'll put the new stuff in the full mock-up model, with the door-less body skin on it. I don't know if that point was made clear, but that's it - that body and the grille, no hood, no deck; like a hot babe in a bikini! 

It'll take a minute because that file is pretty big and takes almost a gig of memory to open and work in, and I have some other stuff to finish before my , not so swift, geriatric, computer can tackle that. 





madmike8 said:


> ...BTW you and your group are pretty amazing...


Thanks Mike!  We're having fun, and getting warmed up now. I just picked up a new intern, that's hitting the ground running, and has me expecting greatness already. More details on that coming up tonight or tomorrow morning...






madmike8 said:


> ...I'm recovering from my surgery, so hopefully I'll be able to start back on mine around the middle of September.
> 
> Mike


Uh-oh, I'd better get moving on that roof!


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Oh, I thought it had a turtle deck and hood. Well don't go through to much trouble then. I can get a good enough idea with your current pic.

Still, no hurry on the roof. When/if a break comes in your schedule then maybe you can make some progress on it. I've got a lot of ground to cover brakes, motor/trans coupling, electrical etc... I might need the door pattern though for when I stretch the body... But I think I can do that after too...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Oh, I thought it had a turtle deck and hood. Well don't go through to much trouble then. I can get a good enough idea with your current pic...


That was before I lost my mind and start tossing (virtual) parts in the trash - like the hood, deck, and doors! 

It's no trouble really, I want to see the composite myself. I just have to do it when I don't need the computer for a lot of other stuff. I can get away with some mild web surfing, I think. 





madmike8 said:


> ...Still, no hurry on the roof. When/if a break comes in your schedule then maybe you can make some progress on it. I've got a lot of ground to cover brakes, motor/trans coupling, electrical etc... I might need the door pattern though for when I stretch the body... But I think I can do that after too...


Gotcha. I'm looking forward to doing those things though, so it hopefully won't be too long.




I was in my little office planning away and a pretty lady knocked on the rough opening (don't have a door installed yet) and asked if she could come work on the hot rods with us! What do you think I said?!  Amanda is an ME graduate student at OSU, and is interning at the Columbus Idea Foundry. Alex, my partner and the founder of the Idea Foundry, is gracious enough to share his interns with us - that's how Evan came in too. I return the favor by stealing them, almost completely, from him! 

Anyway, Amanda hit the ground running tonight. She's fluent in CAD, so I had her model a quick wooden template to cut the center holes in the brake/clutch master cylinder mounting plate Kyle had been working on. The template was for cutting the center holes with the plasma cutter, so the template holes are half the diameter of the plasma's tip over the size of the actual hole. I measured, she modeled, we cut the template, made some thickness adjustments on the (metal) mill to get the tip closer to the steel, and Amanda cut the center holes and smoothed them out just enough for the master cylinders to fit. It's obviously fresh off the plasma here.








The scratch-outs, and multiple patterns in a pattern, aren't Amanda's fault. I was having one of them days when I did this one for Kyle to get started on it (last week). I think it was lack of sleep induced. First, I forgot that the clutch (smaller vertical mount in the right) was supposed to be higher, then I couldn't seem to reconcile in my tired mind which way was higher on the pattern. Eventually, after a few pieces of tape, and a lot of scribbling, I got it. Notice, I even scratched out the right clutch master cylinder mounting hole once though. 



















Tomorrow, I'll get the mounting holes located and drilled, and post pics of the master cylinders bolted to it.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

You are getting way too much eye candy on this build!

The parts are looking fantastic!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> You are getting way too much eye candy on this build!
> 
> The parts are looking fantastic!







Here are a couple composite shots, with the digital Schism in traditional automotive photography style poses. A couple issues have come to light, as the technical design concerns begin to plant their flags in the available real estate. One, my beloved antique clock dome controller enclosure probably isn't going to fit anywhere in Schism; certainly not in front of the motor.  I haven't given up trying to make it fit but logic and practicality suggest a more conventional enclosure and layout might be in the cards. The main reason is I need a some type of differential on the front drive, and the most feasible plan is to use an existing automotive diff, and drive it from the jackshaft by chain (more on that after the pics). I had considered an electronic diff, with a small clutch (or clutch pack) on each axle but that puts control of that drive system in some coder's hands and I refuse to _go there_ with Schism. We have maintained control, keeping every possible aspect of this build in our own hands, and the results speak for themselves - in seven months we have almost totally handcrafted a really radical, high quality, custom vehicle. That's the main reason I loved, and jumped on, Tom's suggestion to have a dual-function throttle pedal - it removes the need for someone to build and program an ICE-to-electric interface - _I_ am that interface!

Two, I also need that space to move the inner CV joints of the axles inboard of the front lower control arm mounts. In the renderings you can see that the CV joint interferes with the front upper control arm mount (there's a plate on top that runs from front to rear mount, and mounts the upper control arm - it runs right through the middle of the CV joint and axle!). A longer axle, with a centrally located diff, would solve that problem. A small "C-notch" will be needed on the plate to clear the axle, but that's a simple fabrication task.









Mike here's a good shot of the headlights, and you can use your imaginator to think about how the rear tail lights would match them. I'm toying with the idea of the five bolt mounting pattern in the locking rings (to match the other five bolt aluminum parts) being a five lug pattern instead, with custom wrenches to tighten and loosen them. Then, I can (theorectially) implant amber LEDs in them for the park and turn lights, and back up lights in the tail lights. I'm playing with small fractions of an inch here, so I'll have to see if I can actually make it work. I have to get specs on the LEDs before I start on them in CAD because everything looks huge in there, and I'll design something that would require an electron microscope to produce! 











On the front diff: I'm working on an idea to cut a Honda diff from the transmission, and replace the transmission section with a modeled/machined/fabricated chain case. The input gear on the diff would be replaced with a sprocket. The jackshaft would plug directly into the chain case, so there would only be only exposed chain (from motor to jackshaft). I'll make up for that with a really antique, steampunk-ish, appearing chain case - so you _know_ there's another chain in there! This allows me to use existing aftermarket racing parts to build a suitable diff and do most, if not all, of the work in-house.

Honestly, it will probably look better, more balanced, and more purposeful, than I clock dome anyway.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks Todd, I definitely like the headlights and mounts... Very nice... I still think it needs a hood, but I'm sure your gonna awe me with your work and change my mind  It is kinda cool, and direct that it shows off what a Hybrid is with the Engine and motor in full view.

Once again... Awesome work... Wish I had some pretty help... Well I do have my wife, but she's more of a distraction than help...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Thanks Todd, I definitely like the headlights and mounts... Very nice... I still think it needs a hood, but I'm sure your gonna awe me with your work and change my mind ...
> 
> Once again... Awesome work...


Thanks Mike!  That's pretty high praise, I hope we live up to it. 

Schism should really start coming together now. It's an interesting concept because normally there's a body that wraps the whole package up and makes it all make sense. With this car, all those little bits and pieces we're working so hard on have to form that collective impression; kind of like one of those "paintings" made from thousands of bottle caps or something. It's very challenging, and extremely rewarding when we see different areas come to life. The interior is a good example. There's really almost no interior, but as we add components you begin to "see" an interior. If you really look at it, there are two lower seat sections (shorter than a low back bucket - almost literally a "seat"), a few controls, and a roll cage, but it's beginning to create the impression of an automotive interior. The ridiculous shifter mount positions a shift knob appropriately with the seats, and resembles an armrest, so your brain sees a place to park your azz and drive/ride in a car...





madmike8 said:


> ...Wish I had some pretty help... Well I do have my wife, but she's more of a distraction than help...


I am really pleased that the Inhaler Project is, finally, beginning to draw women - and proud as heck that they want to come work on the hot rods, not just sit in the office and look pretty.

There is an article in Hot Rod magazine where they rode around the LA area with an old rat rod and a new Lambo, and women preferred the rat rod - I can believe that by the reaction we've been getting with our hot rods. Makes me happy too...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We accomplished a lot, but the constant rush to keep the interns and volunteers _fed_ with a steady _diet_ of fabrication tasks kept me so focused on small details that I wasn't really stepping back and looking at the big picture of what's coming together on the shop floor. Those last CAD composite mock-ups renderings were close, but I was still looking at them through the view of my crew, in the shop, making stuff; not from the aesthetic perspective of a complete vehicle.

The shop is pretty quiet these days, as the interns have all started school again, and after a few days I finally settled back into my typical design mode. The first thing I noticed is the gap between the body and rear wheels. The roll cage bar running back there draws your eyes to it now, and I realized that I needed to connect the dots. The original plan was for faux trunks on the sides, in those spaces, so I returned to it with a piece of poster board.

Much better. It connects the ICE drivetrain to the rest of the car, and kind of stretches the whole car out, making it appear to be longer and lower. I'll let this stew for a day or so, and then start modeling, then cutting foam cores. Instead of permanent trunks, I am going more for a fitted luggage theme. Maybe, depending on how all the materials and finishes play out, they can actually be upholstered with leather to match the seat pads. They MUST have awesome, antique-looking, buckles!  I also needed this space for drivetrain components. I had hoped to put the motor controller as close as possible to the motor, but it may end up in one of these cases, and the ICE ECU and components in the other side.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The master cylinder mount is coming along.

















Ditto the emergency brake handle. It fits on the back of the two, center, roll bar stanchion tubes the shifter mount will bolt to. The shifter's mounting studs will pass through the e-brake mount, which works like big thick washers on the other side of the stanchions.

















Interesting place for an emergency brake, eh?!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A couple steps closer on the rear suspension. It gets much easier in back, from here.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Amanda was back yesterday evening and did some plasma cutting and grinding on the rear upper control arm brackets. The progress is slower, until the shop gets flooded with the next wave of interns, the but work on this car will continue. We're going to make a push in the next few weeks to try to get the suspension in place and the car rolling and steering...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With Schism's new "company car" focus in mind, I started looking for a way to improve the occupant space; _i.e._, find more leg/foot room. Sliding the entire body forward, about four inches, was the solution. The resulting issue is the motor was right in front of the firewall, so it had to go forward too. Kez had mucho time in slotting the crossmember into the frame, and Evan and some of the other interns an even more ridiculous amount of time cutting and grinding the actual mounting plates, so I wanted to find a solution that had the least amount of human-labor carnage. It's going to work beautifully, and probably be even stronger than before, with only one piece sacrificed to the gods of excess.

The solution is to make the main motor mount pedestal plate the rearward-most front suspension mount. Amanda carefully located the pivot holes on the motor's pedestal plate, drilled them, and then removed the old suspension mounts.










The small longitudinal saddle mount piece will be redesigned and replaced with a larger piece that reaches back to, and wraps around, Kez's crossmember. That will actually feed the torque reaction of the motor more directly into the crossmember. For the motor to rotate, it would have to twist and drive that crossmember out of the frame.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

It's baaaccckk! Schism returns to the TPD stable, with Scrape! After a lot of careful consideration of where we're going with the Inhaler Project, I realized that Schism is not the right training tool for the future "classes" of interns and volunteers, so it returns to being my personal project and responsibility. It's still being built in the Inhaler Project shop, so some of the most skilled members of Team Inhaler will work on it from time to time, but the main responsibility falls on Curt and I to make it real. I'm dropping some parts off to him, at his day job, today or tomorrow to get the suspension wrapped up, and Schism on its paws. I had it on hold to wait for the next round of interns to get it rolling, but it's on the fast track now - I hope .

Amanda is one of the Team Inhaler interns that will continue to work on Schism (along with Evan). She was in last night and worked on the new motor mount, while I got back to work on the throttle pedal.


















Just because we can, and to experiment with metals, fabrication, and welding processes, etc, (for future Inhaler intern projects) I decided to cut and weld a piece into the original cradle mounting plate, to adapt it to the new motor mount location. Amanda has been working on this piece for the past couple weeks (she works for a few hours on Sundays) and has it almost ready. 

















This piece extends back, is obviously much more massive, wraps around the 3x3" crossmember, and will transmit the torque directly into that piece. I am V-notching both sides, of both pieces, to weld the heck out of it; plus, the part is in compression, not tension, as it resists the counter-rotation of the motor.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Yea!!!!!!!!!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Yea!!!!!!!!!


 Of course, you do realize that the focus changes from my Team's incredibly fast fabrication learning curve, to my incredibly ridiculous design obsession, right?!  I will try to keep the pace moving though. Number one goal right now is just to get it rolling, and then to get Curt setup to get it running. Then, I start to play again, creatively...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A sneak peek at Schism's future. 








I do this sometimes to block out all pesky little details, so I can focus on the big picture. You'd probably never guess it, by my posts here, but I am really a big picture guy - paying attention to the small stuff is a discipline I learned to enhance my big picture visions.

So, obviously, the roof is back - but still doorless. I needed more attitude and, honestly, my middle-aged azz doesn't like the thought of almost literally roasting in our globally-warmed summers. I want to be able to drive Shism - a lot - and that means not having to wait for the sun to ease up, or being overly fearful of a few drops of rain. I'll probably make snap-on, or pop-on, soft doors for it eventually.

The "fitted luggage bags" have been in the cards for quite a while. There was originally going to be a large trunk to cover the radiator, but I like having everything exposed, and need more space to put important stuff, so I came up with the _saddle bag _idea. I just kicked them up a notch (in back) to match the aggressive rake of the roof.

I must admit that I am more focused on driving now than racing. I finally realized that the pursuit of advanced design concepts has officially taken over as the force of my life; displacing racing and extremely elevated performance. That is not to say I don't plan to build a lot of power, and race a little, I simply mean it is not the beef patty in my burger anymore; it's more like a condiment.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I like the looks of the roof... I can't wait as you feel in the details...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I like the looks of the roof... I can't wait as you feel in the details...


Thanks Mike. FYI, I will also be modeling roof*s* soon...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Today was a good day for Schism. I burned the first five or six hours of the day just mentally going over Schism and Scrape from every conceivable angle, and thinking about how they will fit into my business and personal plans and life. Then I remembered that Amanda was due in at six, and that I had given Curt the motor mount saddle piece, and rear upper control arm brackets, she had been whittling. I needed something new for her, and also needed to get back on track with the front suspension, post external hard drive crash, so to CAD I went. I didn't finish until long after she was gone, but the front upper control arms (UCA) are once again modeled and ready to be cut.









I changed the design a little bit, fixing some potential weak spots, spending more time in CAD this time working the front roll cage bars around the motor, and verifying (as much as possible) how everything else would work around the UCA mounts. I also enlarged the headlights a tiny bit (from 1.625' to 2"). The last time I had originally created that front hole for the roll cage tubing to pass through but realized later that the axle also runs through there, so I used the location for lighting. The idea is to match the rear lighting, which is in the end of the roll cage tubes, so even without the tubing actually extending forward to the light, it's all in the same line - hopefully obsessive types like me will notice. 

I didn't bother with creating surfaces this time, just the profile curves that will (hopefully) be etched or engraved directly on the steel this time; as opposed to printing patterns and tracing them on the steel.




As for Amanda, since I didn't finish in time for her to do testing and research on that pattern process, I gave her the electric drive control switch levers to work on. I was determined to give her a break from the right angle grinder today.  We had previously cut the rough shape out of two scrap pieces of alloy, and I had already turned the ends for the knobs. Amanda unleashed some of her super-heroine girl power skills and started making chips on the manual mill.










She drilled the pivot holes, and machined the levers down to the right thickness, carefully leaving the little ribs up top. Those were done with a .750" ball-nosed end mill to provide a gentle radius up, off the lever. They will be hand finished from here, and will be pointers that flow out of the lever and out onto the "gate plate", where they will hover over the appropriate little glass globe to indicate what mode the electric drivetrain is in.









This is obviously one of those Todd parts that I am going all the way off the deep-end on; up to, and including, fine-tuning the feel of the levers clicking through their positions with the right pressure ball detents and springs... 

The other two depressions in the foam dash plug will hold push-pull switches, with matching illuminated globes, and 1000% OCD-fueled little knobs.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I had planned, as mentioned, to start etching or engraving the patterns directly on the steel, but Curt was ready for more parts, so I rushed these through, the old way, with more laser-cut poster board patterns. I was a little thin around the inside edges of the headlight opening, for some reason, but that's easily corrected while grinding them out. The important part is they're out of my CAD workshop and on the way to being real steel... 




























I'm also making progress on the roof model. It's just roughed in right now to get the basic shape worked out. I'm attempting to strike a careful balance between Model T, Roaring 20's grand touring cars, and classic Ford, styling cues. I also want the roof, and the whole car, to be heavily stylized, and "artsy". Now, that the basic form is set, I can start working the lumps, bumps, and kinks out, and adding more detail...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

This motor mount has been like a relay race. Quite a few interns got their paws dirty getting these pieces cut out and ground down to shape. Amanda was the last one, doing the cut-n-grind on the new saddle mount piece. Curt finished that up, and made life extremely easy on me - I had _very_ little to do to get these two pieces tacked together on the car. Awesome work Team! 











Then I rolled the saddle...












I was pretty psyched about seeing the motor in the car, by this point, but made myself quit because I really need to take my time and get everything to fit together and line up, _just so_.









More to come...


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Looking Great, lots of progress... Me likes...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Looking Great, lots of progress... Me likes...


Thanks Mike! 


This little piggy is about to become Schism's chain-driven front differential. I was kicking around the idea of how to go about this one day, and Googled it. I discovered that there's really nothing to a chain drive differential. Instead of a stationary housing, they have what are basically cups on either side to seal the internals from the elements. The bearings are outside of the housing seals. Easy breezy, so I dissected my Toyota Celica GTS differential.









It's an open diff right now, but a Phantom Grip LSD kit will fix that someday. To make it work, I am going to get rid of the tapered roller bearings, and mount it on sealed roller bearings on the stub shafts.

I haven't decided yet whether I am going to fabricate or go CAD/CNC with the housings. Of course, I am itching to model and cut them, but I have to consider time and money spent. Another option is to see if I can find a couple pieces of aluminum rod cheap and turn them manually - still a substantial investment of time though. If I do turn them, or have them cut on a CNC lathe, I can have radially finned aluminum housings, with a big aluminum sprocket sandwiched in between them - how cool is that! 

to be continued...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The goal is to develop an artistic depiction of an antique vehicle, that also feels "old" in use, but is rendered with modern technology, materials, and processes. I'm working my way from the inside-out because early 20th century automobiles were full of levers and pedals and switches, that kind of set the "tone" (to me) for the whole vehicle; wonderfully complex and sophisticated.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With the recent discussions about using a DC motor controller as a charger, I realized I may have a leg up on this with Schism's SepEx motor. (If anyone has links to threads on this subject please post them.)

Since it's mainly a matter of reversing the field - easy as pie for me to do - shouldn't I be able to drive, regen charge, and plug-in charge, all from the same controller?  If so, this would make for a really simple, clean, installation - AND - would give me a true KERS type boost system; as long as my batteries could handle large doses of charge current.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I searched every conceivable option for making my sidewinder style electric front drive work, and the answer was right under my nose the whole time. I originally purchase this little Toyota diff for an EV project that I ultimately decided not to pursue - sometimes little distractions and detours pay off!  It's the final piece of the puzzle.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The saddle isn't welded yet, but the motor is _*finally*_ in place!  I need to walk around this and stare at it, and patiently position and align it, then I can tack the saddle in place and start working on the clamp.









For now, I'm enjoying the fact that Schism finally looks like a hybrid.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Finally got the roof split and ready for machining. It look like it's going to take 20+ hours of machine time.









Next up for Schism, modeling the "fitted luggage". Curt also has a couple of the suspension brackets ready, but I haven't picked them up yet. I'm hoping to get some fabrication work done next week...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Have luggage, will travel.

















I'm undecided on the finish now, because it will be really hard to cover these with leather...  I'm thinking exposed carbon fiber, with a big leather strap, with a Bat-T buckle.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

She's looking good Todd... I like the CF with leather straps and buckles idea.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> She's looking good Todd... I like the CF with leather straps and buckles idea.


Thanks Mike! It's beginning to feel like "me" again. I made a huge change in direction to use Schism as a training tool, and all my ideas and mental strategy/processes were aimed in that direction. It took me a while to really realize that I can now do things just because that's the way I want to do them...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

One of the reasons I ended up keeping Schism is the work on it was moving beyond the teaching tool phase, meaning I couldn't just hand the average intern a hunk of metal and say, "make this." I do, however, have a handful of super talented individuals that will continue to work on Schism, and probably start to mentor some of the newbies that come in. Amanda is one of them. She was out of town last week, but was back this evening, doing more machine work on the electric drive switch assembly.


















The machine work is for the (preferably) stainless steel pivot mounts for the selector arms. It's just rough-cut now, and will be fine-tuned and finished after the pivot pieces are made, so they can all be machined to fit precisely together.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

We had a new guy, Scott, come in and work for a few hours on Schism yesterday. He did the final fit of the front, upper, control arm mount brackets, and I tacked them in place. Very nice work, right outta the box, I hope he sticks around for many moons. 




















Amanda was also in for a few hours slightly overlapping Scott's time in the shop, and I had a biz meeting with Nic, one of the biz/marketing interns, around the same time. It was nice having a mini crew in the place again - it has been so quiet lately...



Amanda cut, drilled, and milled (counterbores), these four pieces which will be the outer tubing ends for the lower control arm "other halves".


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I have been wrestling with picking either Schism or Scrape to be my "flagship" project for months, and Scrape finally won out. That's not a bad thing for Schism, in fact it should mean it will run sooner, because all the lofty goals are no longer critical to its purpose in life. This will basically be my raunchy little hot rod, for having fun in without bearing the weight of my more "ambitious" ideas. That, by the way, is what the original plan was - just something to _drive_...  After looking at both from every conceivable angle, I eventually determined that Scrape is naturally dependent on/responsive to more advanced technologies, and less practical; whereas Schism responds well to low-budget techniques (like hammering a couple bucks worth of plate steel into a sculptured part). I will be building a custom trailer for Scrape, and intend to tug it around as much as possible, in good weather, with Schism; so I will also seek to make them kind of a matched pair...

Anyway, on with the plans: I like the rounded roof, but when I think about how much time I would have in cutting and assembling the foam (Scrape's body took five hours just to cut), laying up the glass, smoothing it, and then _probably_ covering that with a cosmetic layer of carbon fiber, and finishing it... A LOT of work!  I had already modeled the rag top, but never tried it so, today, I decided to see if I like it.









If I choose to go this route, the process would be cutting ribs, and foam windshield and rear window frames, and stretching swimsuit material over them. That gets coated with resin, then a few layers of cloth, and possibly the exposed carbon fiber final finish. All in all, a fraction of the time it would take to do the smooth roof, because it's supposed to look like stretched fabric, not a sheet-metal-like surface.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Most of the interns' work I have been posting is the lower end eductional program, where I start off by building basic tool skills and familiarity, and assess the intern's abilities and natural skill sets, to determine where to go with them. Amanda is on the other end of the spectrum of our (currently developing) educational programs. She already has the skills, and my goal is to challenge her, by creating situations that initiate creative thinking and problem solving, then help her most effectively use her skills to reach her goals. The majority of what I have been doing with her, thus far, has been for my own assessment needs. She's pretty awesome...

Yesterday's project was to figure out her own way to turn the ends of the lower control arm ends to fit in the tubing. The four-jaw chuck is missing for the lathe, which set the stage for her to come up with her own solution. There is no right or wrong, and points are given for creative excellence. She used a rotary table on the mill, which let her use the digital readout to precisely hone in on the desired final dimension. Granted, the rotary table still has a three-jaw chuck, but you have to admit this was a much more creative, innovative, solution (that also allowed more precision in a "production line" like environment than simply turning on the lathe and checking frequently with a caliper or micrometer...)



















The end result? Spot on.  These will be pressed into the tubes, kinked to get them aimed at the frame mounts, and then notched to fit sections of tubing that will hold the bushings. I realized that the plan I was following was a oil-n-water mix of two different ideas, and wouldn't work as intended, with floppy rod ends. We're going to turn our own UHMW polyethylene bushings (quieter than Delrin, and self-lubing).


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The rag top skeleton is ready to be cut, assembled, and skinned with swinsuit material. I'm not sure when I am going to do it. I wanted to have the model ready for when the urge hits...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Amanda cut four bearing sleeves for the frame pivots, cut the tubes, and pressed the ends into them.










I modeled and cut temporary bushings from LDPE. Later these will be replaced with custom UHMW bushings, with metal sleeves.

























While cutting them, I was away from the ShopBot doing one of my other multitask items, and a piece of the LDPE melted onto the end mill and caused a little damage to a couple of the bushings, but they'll still work to get everything lined up, with a little hand finishing work.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

My number one, overriding, all-important, goal for Schism is now - drive it; as often and as much as possible! Since the interns went back to school, I have been busy re-plotting its course to make that goal a reality next year. The trick is to find and eliminate the sinkholes that would cause it to spend another year in the shop, being worked on instead of out on the road.

As much as I love my door-less concept, I think that is the biggest potential stumbling block. We're really close to getting the chassis buttoned up, and then it would simply be a matter of plumbing and wiring the systems to actually drive the car. That door-less skin of a body, no matter how I shake it, is a huge labor hog. It is also a potential pitfall to driving the car - yes, I am admitting that getting pelted by pebbles and splashed by random fluids could turn out to be more than I can stand, and that my aging azz wants to be "comfortably" encapsulated. 

With all that in mind, I am going back to the cheapo fiberglass body. I am simply going to 'glass it back together, and bolt it down. The doors stay, and all the other radical ideas get shelved - at least for now. Man, I must really be getting "old"! 

















I still want the roof though, as that is something that will make me drive the car _more_. I think I am going to hinge it, so you open the lid to get in - that'll give me a little edge back. I've also been working on the process of creating it, to reduce the labor to as little as possible to make it functional, while leaving the path clear to add detail and excess (like skinning it with exposed carbon fiber), later.

I'm also going to have the seats fully upholstered instead of the exposed carbon fiber on them, with a rolled bead around the perimeter... I might even let the upholstery person add enough padding to keep an "old guy's" azz comfy for a couple hundred miles at a time. 

Mission "just drive it" is in full effect...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A taste of Todd's world, where _extreme_ is the "normal":

I'm machining the ribs and stringers for Schism's roof today, and did a quick mock-up with the first few pieces to make sure I liked what was developing enough to invest the time in the more elaborate pieces.

My first impression, set against the backdrop of all the other craziness in the shop - it seemed way too high for a proper "Todd" project.  So, I grabbed a tape measure to see how far off I was - it's 41" tall!!!! 

For perspective, Lamborghinis are 42-45" tall! I guess this'll do. 

Pics later tonight...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, the original Ford GT40 was only 40" tall....


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Well, the original Ford GT40 was only 40" tall....


I might have to take advantage of the Model T's versatility (many models with the same body tub) and turn Schism into a truck, so it looks right riding in the 41" tall clouds. 

I'm actually at 40.5-40.75". I allowed some room for the composite materials, and rounded up to 41". I could easily match that 40", if I was so inclined...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

As usual, the CNC process took much longer than anticipated, so I was tired last night and didn't feel like taking pics; and definitely not editing and posting them. I'm back in the CAD workshop today, but managed to sneak out long enough to snap some photos and get them edited, so here we go.

This view really captures the "essence" of how radical my hot rods are. The Model E's front tire is only 23" diameter/tall, and Schism's are 24" - notice, I'm just barely peering over the tops of them!?  Also, the whole reason I started exploring electric was to be able to drop the cowl this low, and have that small off a firewall, with an exposed motor in front of it. I wasn't even aware of the fact that this dream is being realized with Schism, until I looked at this pic. 










I love the back window. I'm actually not a Ford guy, but the "Ford" script logo might look pretty sweet etched on the oval glass...










Tunnel vision! Imagine that view at 100+mph!


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

That's gonna look cool!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> That's gonna look cool!


Thanks Mike!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

*Caveat: Long-winded insight into the "Todd" design process.*

I think I may owe Schism an apology. My main criterion for determining which of my projects is my "flagship" is how much it sparks my creative process. Plain and simple, as a designer, I naturally go where the ideas seem to flow (cheesy rhyme was intentional ). Scrape had been blowing Schism out of the water, in that regard, for months now. One simple addition may have flipped that on its head - the roof! 

Finally, for the first time since we actually started cutting and grinding metal on this car, I "see" what's in my head on the shop floor. I now get the same feeling, followed by an endless stream of creative ideas, every time I see it. That has been missing. Most of what I have been doing has been in search of that creative spark, not because of it.

It's really not the roof itself. It's everything. The roof makes all of the ideas come together. The radically chopped, pinched, and sectioned body; the bite-sized, tombstone-shaped firewall flowing into a classic model T cowl; the three-inch ride height, the exposed sidewinder ICE and electric powertrains - all those things are features.

Features are meant to complement _something_ - in this case a "car". It's the coupe thing -that's the "car" I was looking for. When I look at it now I see a little coupe - with all these features. Before I saw a bunch of features hanging out together, but with no real identity.

Imagine seeing a muscular, well-groomed man, with a thousand-dollar pair of shoes on his silk-socked feet, a perfectly pressed shirt, "power" tie, and a Rolex on his wrist - but with no suit pants or jacket!  That's what I saw when I looked at Schism. Impressive, but not quite ready for the red carpet. Now, it's like I see a guy in a suit, and start to notice all the impressive accoutrements that go with it.  (I didn't use the example of a woman with all the accessories and no dress, for obvious -male- reasons!)

The beauty of following this long, crazy, design process is I have developed a more sophisticated little coupe than I ever imagined at the onset. It's sort of like the experimental, accidental, process through life that creates us. The intent is usually clear - to develop a "good" person. The journey to get there is fascinating...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Amanda has been whittling away at the front suspension, and Evan came back yesterday (Christmas break) and pitched in. He did a pie cut on the vertical band saw, and bend with with hydraulic press, to get the lower control arms a step closer.

















We're making good progress on the lower control arms. Now it's time to get the upper control arms and mounts going. I have the design challenge of packing an incredible amount of stuff in this tiny space: Upper and lower control arms, coil-over shocks, anti-sway bars, two chains, four sprockets, jackshaft, differential, axles, roll cage tubes, grille, hmmm - a way to steer would probably come in handy...

Classic Evan, he worked on the lower control arms, the throttle pedal, and plasma-cut the upper control arm mounts. I forgot how fast he can breeze through my task lists!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't know why, but getting these things ready to cut has been a huge (CAD) battle. Regardless, I prevailed. The rest of the roof stringers and ribs, and the luggage bags, are sliced, diced, and ready to become reality.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm thinking about this for a grille now. I still have to figure out if I can get the steering rack tucked behind it - after we get the upper control arms in place.









I would hammerform the shell from sheet aluminum. It would make a nice teaching tool/learning process for the interns because it would incorporate CAD/CNC to design it, unroll the individual panels, cut them from flat sheet, cut a wooden buck to form the sheet metal over, actual hand fabrication to form it, and TIG welding to make it whole.

Another trick process would be to do the front panel by CAD/CNC, whittling a piece of thicker sheet down to the thickness of the other panels, with the Ford logo left embossed on it.

I have a really trick idea for incorporating my mesh grille into it, but I need to step back, wait for the suspension, and really think it through though, before investing a ton of CAD time into it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Once again, utter failure.  This time something is wrong with their ShopBot. Some expert from the company came in and supposedly fine-tuned and tweaked the machine a couple days ago. The result? For me, it literally destroyed half of my stack of foam!  Between the failed casting session and yesterday's disaster, I just lost sixteen hours that could have been spent doing client design projects, which would have paid to subcontract these parts out, and allowed me to keep my focus on design.

Anyway, using a couple of the failed pieces, here's a mock-up that (if you squint) will reveal the unique little couple profile I've been seeing in my head all this time. Eventually, I _will_ realize this...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Evan is back in the shop for Christmas break, and making the most of every second he's here. He finished the front upper control arm rear mounts today, and we tacked them in place.










Then he worked on the motor clamp. It's almost there...


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

Todd, it's looking good. I've got to get myself a crew. I've been watching for a few years as your project ebbs and flows. Thanks for the window to your design process. From watching you, I think I've learned to slow down a bit to do it right.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Joey said:


> Todd, it's looking good. I've got to get myself a crew. I've been watching for a few years as your project ebbs and flows. Thanks for the window to your design process...


Thanks Joey, it's my pleasure.  I tend share a lot of details hoping that it will help someone, somewhere. My design process is, admittedly, a bit over the top; but seeing it finally become a tangible reality is beyond words... 

As for having a crew: I am just as proud of my little team as I am thrilled to see my design become reality. I'm will eventually turn my attention to a lot of CAD/CNC work for this project, but right now it's so rewarding to give them center stage and myself more things to boast about how awesome they are.





Joey said:


> ...From watching you, I think I've learned to slow down a bit to do it right.


Delayed gratification is like a lost art, in modern culture. That's sad too, because _nothing_ compares to its reward.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Curt and I took a little road trip today to Cincinnati to grab some slicks for his Civic, and had a nice six hour strategy meeting along the way. He sent this pair of drag radials back to the shop, with me, for Schism. 











While we were out hunting down go-fast goodies, and working on strategy, Evan and Amanda were back at the shop whittling out hot rods. Amanda milled the edges of the upper control mounting plates straight and true.









The front suspension is getting dangerously close, thanks to my badazz little Team.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I have a LOT of time in designing the maze of systems in the front of this car, and just as much more left to invest in it; not to mention the time it takes to realize each ridiculous part and system I design. The concept of leaving both drivetrains, and all the suspension, exposed has been in place since earlier this summer, and is playing out beautifully - sort of a performing art type thing - like the toned, muscular, physique of an athlete's body in the tights they wear for competition; why cover it up with baggy "clothes".

The one area I have struggled to nail is the grille; mainly because it serves no real purpose other than adding an element of distinction to Schism's pretty face - lipstick. Seeing the front suspension coming, tangibly, together, and being better able to imagine all the mechanical art woven into that tiny space, it finally became apparent to me what the problem was - a real antique style grille, with a shell, and filler panel, is too much. It's out of balance. Your eyes want to feast on how it all works together, and a full grille covers that function. What's needed is the suggestion of a grille; like the horseshoe on a Bugatti Veyron. It's only function is to make it clear who is responsible for what you're about to witness.

In this case, it's my interpretation of what ol' Henry did a century ago. So, I came up with the idea of a 1913 style "grille", that is merely a CAD/CNC billet aluminum trim ring, with my coveted carbon fiber mesh insert. To test the idea, I whittled a mockup panel from a scrap piece of acrylic on the ShopBot, and used a heat gun (with weights clamped to the top and bottom) to roll it, just a touch, over a piece of PVC tubing. I used smoked acrylic to get a hint of what it might look like in carbon fiber and black anodized aluminum.

















IMO, it works. It's adding something to the whole, because it makes you want to investigate what's peeking through from behind it. It also seems to tie the little headlights into the bigger picture.

Now, if they could just get the ShopBot fixed so I can finish cutting my roof panels. It cuts 2D perfectly, but goes ballistic in the middle of 3D machining; seems software related...


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I like the grill Todd...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I like the grill Todd...


Thanks Mike! 


Kez was gone for a few months, finishing up her last year of school. Now that she has graduated, and caught her breath, she came out for a few hours today and reminded me just how freakin awesome she is, by doing the final fit on the upper control arm mounts. Precision. Craftsmanship.









Evan did the initial cut-n-grind, then carefully sculpted these pieces to shape; Amanda and I did some manual machining on them; then Kez brought it all together - Team (Inhaler) work! 

We just need to drill the mounting holes, finish the bore on the headlight holes and fit that piece to the frame, then chamfer the weld areas and clean them up, and this will all be ready to tack together. We are steadily inching our way towards a roller...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Mesh time (again)! 









Curves are a beautiful thing...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Evan's metal sculpting and Amanda's machine work have the front suspension coming along very nicely. I'm definitely having the dad watching his baby being born moments seeing this stuff come to life. 










Their progress has enabled Kez to move her precision work back to the roll cage, and start stringing the front bars. This one is oh-so-close...

















The end goal here is a heavily triangulated roadster chassis, with dual funny car cages over the occupants - not funny car style tubes incorporated into a traditional full-body cage, real twin funny car upper cages.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

It's Friday... Any updates on your projects?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> It's Friday... Any updates on your projects?


Hey Mike, not yet, but hopefully soon. I've been working on design stuff, to be ready to start on the coil-overs when the control arms are finished, and Evan is headed back to class now. Amanda will be in Sunday, so there should be something to share by Sunday night/Monday morning. The front suspension upper mounts are also a wink away from being able to tack on. Then it's coil-overs and steering... 

We have a new guy, Riley, a high school student who's in early college classes. He was in for his first day today, and Evan got to show him the ropes. He seems to like it, has natural skills, and should be around for a while. I'm also getting regular "pings" now from prospective interns, building for a busy/fun spring and summer.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> It's Friday... Any updates on your projects?





toddshotrods said:


> Hey Mike, not yet, but hopefully soon...


Well, it might be a little longer before there's anything to share. We actually worked today - Amanda, Ryan, and I - but there isn't anything that will show up in pics.  Today was all detail work. Amanda re-milled one of the lower control arm end pieces that was mangled by a so-called precision forming machine. She did a great job, which means it looks just like it did before. Ryan worked on getting all the front upper control arm mount pieces to fit together, while being perfectly level and plumb - three hours of shaving a hair off here and there, and nothing that would look any different in a pic - he did very nice work though.  I worked on the motor clamp, _subtly_ (done with a 3lb hammer and a special forming tool I made) working the shape to fit around the motor how I want it. Again, it doesn't really look any different - it's just a more continuous curve that follows the shape of the motor better.

Hopefully soon we'll have something that will be worth taking pics of...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Technically, this isn't much different than the last pic I posted of the front suspension; BUT, it's a milestone because, at long last, the front upper control arm mounts are tacked in place, and officially a part of Schism's chassis! 










I have a few things to tackle, at once, now. I can get the team started on mounting the steering rack; I need to make temporary bushings to positively locate the lower controls arms, so we can finish those; and I can finally start on the coil-over locations and mounting.

The push is on now, to get it rolling! I simply cannot wait to see Schism roll out into the aisle, crank the wheel (remember 1.5 turns lock-to-lock!), and feel/see it change directions!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Now begins the serious challenge of fitting all this stuff under Schism's missing bonnet. To get the ball rolling, I made CAD drawings and cut plastic sprockets to mock up the electric-drive "transmission". I knew I would, but now that I actually see it, I l-o-v-e this! 









That's a 20-tooth sprocket on the motor, mounted on one of the 25T PTO disc hubs, leading up to a 25-tooth sprocket on the outer end of the jackshaft, a 15-tooth sprocket on the inside, turning a 45-toother on the diff; 630/#60 chain. If my math is correct, that gives me a 4.25:1, single speed, reduction. That should allow both around town and highway driving.


----------



## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Looking really good, Todd. 

It seems you even have room on the brush end of the motor to mount a parking brake disk. (You will need one) 

On second thought...you do not even need a caliper for the parking brake function. How about just some notches and a plain simple pawl arm like inside an automatic transmission?








like that....


Miz


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

mizlplix said:


> Looking really good, Todd.
> 
> It seems you even have room on the brush end of the motor to mount a parking brake disk. (You will need one)...


Thanks Miz!  I actually have the (drum) parking brake from the forklift - in like-new condition. That would be very simple to hook up; just a cable back to the e-brake lever.

I was planning to use little spot calipers on the rear wheel brake rotors, and planning on putting an RPM sensor on the comm end of the motor; with an oversized, artsy, trigger wheel. I actually followed the link you provided in your thread for the brand you used, and bookmarked it.  I suppose I could make a trigger wheel to fit around the parking brake drum, and kill two birds with one proverbial stone...

The digital gauge panel I plan to use in Schism is called a TunerView RD1 - goes hand-in-hand with the hacked Civic ECU that will run the ICE. I haven't checked yet but, I am hoping it will allow me to also monitor some of the electric drive functions. It would be awesome if I can get it to display motor rpm, pack voltage, and motor & battery current...


----------



## Joey (Oct 12, 2007)

I mean this in a way that I know you will take as a compliment - INSANE!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Joey said:


> I mean this in a way that I know you will take as a compliment - INSANE!


Consider me complimented!  Thanks!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I am really liking how this is turning out, Todd.

The big exposed sprockets are so mad! Especially in that colour compared to the blacks and greys.
Makes me think of bronze gears in a steam punk way.



I don't post much at the moment but I do look in every day or so when the spam reports come in.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I am really liking how this is turning out, Todd.
> 
> The big exposed sprockets are so mad!...


Thanks Woody!  I always think about you when I'm working on this type stuff!  Getting to the slightly steampunk-ish parts has been a long time coming...






Woodsmith said:


> ...Especially in that colour compared to the blacks and greys.
> Makes me think of bronze gears in a steam punk way...


Hmmm, I guess there's no reason they couldn't be finished in something other than the ordinary gray tones. I've been thinking about a medium shade of brown for the body and leather, with a black frame, carbon fiber top, etc, so a little bronze metal sprinkled here and there, along with the requisite copper accents, would probably look awesome. 







Woodsmith said:


> ...I don't post much at the moment but I do look in every day or so when the spam reports come in....


Really great to hear from you!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

A little more work on the grille. I _think_ the "shell" might be a two piece, front and back half, deal that bolts together, clamping the mesh bars between them. Each bar would have a small ball on the end, that would fit in a dimple in the shell halves. I would position and model the balls and sockets so that you can see the sandwiched ball-end bars kind of floating in the shell. The bolts that actually clamp it together would be exposed too, to match the other trim pieces (pedal pads, fuel filler, horn button, etc).


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

My faithful, dedicated, talented, awesome, Team has literally whittled out a foundation for me to begin doing "my thing" - extreme design concepts. I am winding up...

At this point, I am still exploring the feasibility of what I have in mind for Schism's grille. I design in my head, and CAD is my first tool of choice to translate it; with the fringe benefit of being the next logical/best step towards making the ideas a tangible reality. I can print drawings and patterns, or cut/print directly from the CAD models.

This is the ball and socket design I see in my head. The green areas are what you would not see as that would be inside the material of the "shell". The gray flip side of those surfaces are the socket, that would be machined into each shell half. The gap between the mesh bar ball and the socket surface, are the thickness of the carbon fiber cloth. They would not actually float, they would be effectively trapped by the sockets, when the grille halves are clamped together. The visual effect is for them to appear to float though. That flat, abruptly cut off edge of the sockets is the inside edge of the grille shell. So, you would see the ball "floating" in the sockets, in kind of a cutaway, like those awesome drawings and actual sliced engines that let you see the internals. 









From this point, I have enough actual physical data to begin exploring machining and printing processes, to determine how feasible, or not, this idea actually is. For example, the surfaces of the sockets will require a small diameter ball-end mill, which adds substantially to the time each shell half will be on the machine; and how much hand finishing work is required to produce the desired final result. That is always a balancing act between how much the machine does, and how much the man does. Time is money. Also, this shell is supposed to be curved, swept back towards the cowl, at the top. That can be done on a 4 axis machine, from a rather substantial piece of billet, or post machine process, by actually bending the machined part; but it has to be bent precisely and perfectly or the machined part is ruined - time is money. I will eventually model the entire shell and test both routes, digitally; unless I find that the whole idea is completely unfeasible for this project. I am kind of hoping it adds-up, because what I see in my head is pretty cool, and I would like to see it in real life. 

We should conduct some of the first feasibility tests this evening. I will prepare one of the ball-ended mesh bar models for 3D printing, so we can run it through the machine software and get an idea how much time we'll actually spend there. Additive manufacturing makes the most sense with complex, dense, parts so I have an idea for growing a little forest of these bars, that would be pretty cool - if it adds up. Might be a cool project to do a time-lapse video of...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

_Finally_ getting back on track with the CAD/CNC stuff! It appears that the problem with the CNC router is the tech who came and "tweaked" the machine was a little overzealous in removing the "slop" from the stepper motors' gearboxes. Mind you, the machine was cutting with perfect accuracy, but he determined the gearboxes, especially on the X-axis, were horribly loose. As a result, the machine would appear to bang off a solid physical limit, while machining in 3D (lots of quick direction changes, and constant movement). He eventually offered that area of his professional services as a possible culprit, and suggested I shut the machine down and try to manually push it in the three axes - I had to put a LOT of effort into moving it in both X & Y axes. Then, it would let go, suddenly freewheeling. My guess is this is what was happening in machining, and the hard, audible/visible, bang against the imaginary limit was the stepper motor catching again and basically snatching it out of freewheeling - but out of position (original origin).

To test my theory, I painstakingly machined all 38 of these little slices one-by-one, limiting the machine to a small area, and at fingernail-chewing, thumb-twiddlingly slow, speeds; to allow it to remain "connected". It worked, and perfectly. Two days (twenty-nine hours of machine time) later, I walked away with the rear stringer for the rag top.  (I didn't actually sit in front of the machine that long - I would program/setup a slice, start it, walk away, and come back later to start another...)











In the meantime, Riley, our new high school intern worked on the aluminum sheetmetal inner frame structure.

















These will be TIG'd into a sculptured little "angle iron" frame, and bonded into the carbon/foam/fiberglass/aluminum composite "rag top". 



I am going to run a couple air cuts of the window frames, and if the machine has loosened up enough to stay focused, or (if not) after we re-adjust the gearboxes, I will be able to cut them, and finally assembly the rag top frame. Schism really close to making the transition from a pile of parts to an actual car.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

As always, Great Work... Keep the updates coming...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> As always, Great Work... Keep the updates coming...


Thanks Mike! 


I was in my office working yesterday, and started hearing things clinking, and then the whir of a right angle grinder. I listened for a bit, and recognized the types and patterns of sounds I was hearing - it was Kez working on the roll cage.  She just quietly popped in and got busy. It's funny that I know some of my Team by the sounds of their work. She got the left side front bar close enough to start the right side; then she'll tweak them to match.

















These are close enough now for me to start working the body back into the picture, which leads the way to Schism finally starting to come together as a complete car. Most of our work, up to this point, has been building the parts that make a car. Soon, we transition into combining all those parts to form an actual car.

The ShopBot failed miserably on the air cut of the window frames yesterday. It ended a whopping 7-inches away from the original origin!  They need to send a tech out to fix what the last tech f'd up.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I figured out how to trick the ShopBot into cutting the last of my foam cores, the window frames - with perfect results!  This colorful collection will soon pave the way for Schism's rag top to _finally_ become a reality. I've been drawing and rendering those rag tops for almost three years now!  61 pieces, counting one (that gets sliced up to use sections of) for the windshield that's not in this pic.









The jagged edges are just because I haven't trimmed them yet. I didn't run final cutout passes to trim the bottom edges on the machine because I was purposely giving it as little opportunity as possible to screw up my cores.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I have been working on some of Schism's aesthetic design cues, so while running errands today I decided to pop in Woodcraft and get an up-close-and-personal view of different species of exotic wood. When I'm imagining and sketching the parts, I kind of know what they should look like, but couldn't put my finger on what specific wood would work.

I found it but, typical of me, it's one of the more expensive varieties. It's called Ebony Black & White, and it's absolutely perfect for what I want. It has a *built-in* aged and weathered look that you know isn't really old - exactly the point of this whole project. I am purposely designing Schism to look like the old, buggy-style, horseless carriages, but *rendered* with modern materials and techniques.









Wait'll you see what I do with a few hundred bucks worth of this stuff!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Wow, get me a visa and I'll fly over!

I'll bring my tools.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Wow, get me a visa and I'll fly over!
> 
> I'll bring my tools.


If I had two nickels to rub together, in my lint-filled pockets, I would soooo take you up on that offer!  Nothing would be sweeter than to have handcrafted woodwork on Schism, by the one and only Woodsmith! 

Those are just cell phone pics of the wood in the store, by the way. Those same nickle-less, lint-filled, pockets wouldn't let me leave the store with any actual wood yet!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Snipped the corners of the cowl to fit over the front cage tubes today, then snipped those darn doors out of the fiberglass body, and glued up all the foam rag top ribs and stringers. I plan to assemble the rag top frame tomorrow - pics will follow...

So glad those pesky, freakin, doors are off my car!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> If I had two nickels to rub together, in my lint-filled pockets, I would soooo take you up on that offer!  Nothing would be sweeter than to have handcrafted woodwork on Schism, by the one and only Woodsmith!


If I had a couple of nickels (whatever they are) I'd be on my way.

I'd love to see what you do with the wood, whether you mill it on the CNC or get the volunteers to start sharpening their plane blades.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> If I had a couple of nickels (whatever they are) I'd be on my way...


In recent years... a relatively worthless piece of metal that won't even buy one a piece of bubble gum... 



Woodsmith said:


> ...I'd love to see what you do with the wood, whether you mill it on the CNC or get the volunteers to start sharpening their plane blades.


It'll be mostly CAD/CNC, with maybe a little handwork to fit some of the pieces together (maybe even with a plane). I plan to share every drop - and probably pester you for your opinions, suggestions, etc. 



As mentioned, cowl and doors snipped, and today I was able to glue the ribs and stringers together on the car. There is a LOT of work left to do, before we can begin skinning it with fabric.

































I have a small dip to fix in the rear rib. I didn't use screws when I glued them, this time, and left them standing on end to dry - it slipped out of place a little before the glue set. Easy fix.

I'm also making changes and adjustments as I build the roof, to make the original CAD design work in reality. CAD/CNC was to develop the basic shape, and produce the critical surfaces. The goal from here on is to make it look like an artistic swipe at a rag top, that was dipped in carbon fiber and (flat or satin) clear.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks really good, Todd, I look forward to seeing more each time I log on.

I am happy to help, if I can, in any way. Just let me know.



Watching your projects evolving and developing is really encouraging me to look at how to restart my projects. The tractor has a direction and parts I can work on, but the trike will rest a while as the 'commute to work' need has gone with the college job. I am thinking of a small sub 40mph work truck though....


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That looks really good, Todd, I look forward to seeing more each time I log on.
> 
> I am happy to help, if I can, in any way. Just let me know.
> 
> ...


Thanks Woody.  It's actually encouraging to know my projects are helping others, and I can't wait to see more work on the tractor! 





Woodsmith said:


> ...I am thinking of a small sub 40mph work truck though....


I'm trying to work out the details for the Inhaler Project's next group of interns and volunteers to build a reverse trike, miniature, ice cream truck (antique-themed delivery van)!  It will also be sub-40mph. Small world eh?!  Schism has reached the point where only a handful have the skills to do the work that remains on it, so I needed a new project for training them (Pistachio was too much too).

The frame for the Ice Cream Truck is ready to go. It was the G-bucket frame I was going to build Pistachio on. We narrowed the main box, so that it's single-seater width; and our temporary frame fixture so we can build more of these frames, if necessary. I cut the cowl out of the S2 body I had started making for Schism, which will be combined with the old track nose - so the theme will be classic Inhaler Project Model T-inspired. The body is supposed to be a "woodie"!  Much simpler stuff though because it will be a basic teaching opportunity, not advanced skill project, like Schism. I'll start a build thread when we're ready to rip. My list of spring/summer interns is slowly building...

_*Edit:*_ if you look behind Schism in that last pic you can see the cowl and track nose mocked up on the front of the Ice Cream Truck frame...


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

That's looking nice Todd... Keep it up...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> That's looking nice Todd... Keep it up...


Thanks Mike


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm chewing on the crazy idea of being able to drive Schism for $500.  I actually a set "realistic" ceiling of a thousand dollars, but $500 is the goal.

With the first $250, it should be rolling and steering - we're actually _that_ close.

With the second $250, I would try to hook up the rear brakes, the clutch, some kind of (dino) fuel system, the bare minimum electrical, and get it fired and moving in the parking lot. It wouldn't be street worthy, by a looongg shot, but it would begin a new phase for Schism, of functional development. That would naturally push development of the electric drive forward as well.

This all came about because I have been crunching numbers for the past few weeks. To do it the way I really want, it ends up being a $5000 dollar investment. $1000-1500 just to get it rolling, then another $1500-2000 to make it marginally functional, and a final $1500-2000 to make it road worthy. Not bad, but when I look at those numbers, I see a lot of other things I would rather be doing in life. I used to take my first and last breaths of the day for hot rods but, in this middle-aged phase, I just can't _get there_.

So the choices are either get it rolling (for ~$1000) and put it in storage until my income increases to the point where $5K is a more reasonable percentage of my annual income, and therefore more justifiable; find a business case for spending $5K on it now; or find a way to accomplish more for less, and keep moving forward, while I work on that increasing income plan. Remember that's not $5K to finish it - that's just to have a road worthy car. I would still need a decent battery pack, the turbo system for the ice, paint, plating, coating, upholstery, blah, blah, blah...  Basically, not really a lot of return for the investment, compared to other things I could use it for right now.

I don't see the logic in the business case, as compared to other options. I am concerned that if it goes in storage it will eventually end up being sold for fractions of a penny on the dollar.  That leaves finding a way to make it run - cheaply, now. 

The chassis stuff to make it roll and steer would be done "right", just not completed. It would need a lot of additional bracing, etc, before being subjected to these _quality_ Midwestern roads. The real savings are in what would be done to make it run. Two-wheeled brakes, because I have everything but a few pieces of brake line to make the rear brakes work (they're off the front of the car that was driven in the shop). Rubber fuel lines, and a cheap pump, just enough wiring to make it run (basic engine harness, with more of a limp home tune).

In theory, I could even drive it in Goodguys because you're basically driving at the speed the crowd is walking anyway. I'd have to trailer it there and back, but it's only two blocks from the shop.

Thinking out loud...


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Kickstarter?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Kickstarter?


That's what had me doing all the number crunching in the first place.  We have been discussing doing a Kickstarter, so I worked up the draft on Kickstarter, and then started working through what would be needed to run a successful proposal, and fulfill both the promised project and the backer rewards.

A successful Kickstarter is a pretty serious effort, and I can't really count on my all-volunteer team to do much beyond promotion, so it all falls on me to make sure it happens. The community workshop the Inhaler Project is housed in did a successful Kickstarter that helped paved the way for the wing we're in being possible. It was a HUGE effort by all the many people who helped make it work...

I don't think I'm up for it.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I think your looking at it a bit wrong... Your taking students and teaching them hands on skills and fabrication. Don't forget the Business school students. There's valuable lessons to be learned from the "project" side of things. Using them to put together a successful Kickstarter would be a valuable real world lesson for them. Just saying...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

What's Kickstarter? Is it something like Crowd sourcing for funding?

$500 is probably more then I have spent on the tractor.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I think your looking at it a bit wrong... Your taking students and teaching them hands on skills and fabrication. Don't forget the Business school students. There's valuable lessons to be learned from the "project" side of things. Using them to put together a successful Kickstarter would be a valuable real world lesson for them. Just saying...


Nope, I'm right there with ya. I have had business interns along with my engineering, design, art, and auto tech, students all along. The problem is they have all been almost completely unreliable.

The dirtier my shop interns get the happier they seem to be. It's like they're so relieved to put down the books and computers for a minute, and actually work on something. That makes sense because a lot of kids go to school, majoring in engineering, with the dream of making things - only to find out they'll spend most of the rest of their life behind a computer screen doing CAD models, and/or in a lab doing remotely related testing. That's actually what led Alex (Ph.D. engineer) to found the community workshop we're located in.

As for the business majors, I have found that most of them seem to want to do as little actual work as possible. They're perfectly happy behind a computer screen, and the more the software does, the better. When I task them with real-world, small business, stuff they either disappear or bring me digital files and folders full of apathetically concocted crap.

A Kickstarter proposal is probably like the 21st century version of the encyclopedia salesman. You work for every sale, and have to be thick-skinned enough that "no" sounds like "try again". The community workshop accessed about 20,000 people (through its network) to fund its successful Kickstarter, and I believe the figure was less than 10% of them contributed. They actually almost doubled their goal, but I remember it well - it was a hard driving month of sell, sell, sell; that had been proceeded by a LOT of preparation.

The interns and volunteers I have discussed this with were all full of enthusiasm and ideas, until I gave them any actual tasks to even research the idea. I even sent out the link to review the draft on the Kickstarter website (about two weeks ago), and not one of them has yet to even open the page! I eventually did all that by myself, and then started to realize that the weight of the entire project would also likely fall squarely on my shoulders - including fulfilling the backer rewards, and making sure Schism comes together as promised.

Non-profit is a unique beast because people are often excited about what you're doing, think it's great, but also more content to sit on the sidelines and watch. Columbus, from my experience, seems to be heavily biased in that direction. Alex has run the community workshop as an all-volunteer effort (no staff), but most things start off with a bang and never get finished (after the reality of how much work is required occurs). Almost everything that _has_ been done has been half-azzed.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> What's Kickstarter? Is it something like Crowd sourcing for funding?...


Yup, exactly. http://www.kickstarter.com/






Woodsmith said:


> ...$500 is probably more then I have spent on the tractor....


Lol!  Schism actually has a few pennies invested in it, so far, and is reaching the point where I am supposed to start dumping money into it - my feet are getting cold. 

I don't even want to talk about how much labor we have in it...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm very happy with the fringe benefits that are coming from this $500 plan. To save money and time, I am reworking my pedal assembly to mount the master cylinders directly on the assembly, just behind and under the motor. Without having brake and clutch rods running under the floor, I realized that if I could also get the shifter rods out of there I can put my battery pack back in the floor, where it belongs. That is simply a matter of moving the shifter assembly up a couple/few inches and having the rods run just above the floor. I clamped it in place a little higher, and sat in the car - feels even better.  Easy, simple, neat, solutions that actually get some areas of the project back on track that were getting a little _messy_. Sometimes not having money, forces one to be creative and discover opportunities that might otherwise have been missed. 

While Kez had the roof and cowl off, working on the roll cage, I started thinking through the dash bar. I think it's going to be really sweet. My door-less body dash board tapers from the round motor control switch assembly, to almost nothing, as it runs out towards the doors - scratch - I don't have doors!  The dash bar will come up off the front tubes and roll in and behind the dash panel, and you'll see those bends just before the tube disappears behind the dash, on each side. It will continue the organic mix of antique car and race car.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

If your name is Todd Perkins, this is how you retrofit a touchscreen, digital, gauge panel into a hyperactive, artistic, interpretation of a turn-of-the-20th-century, horseless carriage - a CAD/CNC, custom, housing. 









The inspiration was a vintage Olds (I think) gauge panel I saw on eBay. Why buy and modify it when I can make it, right?  Actually, I doubt it would have worked, even if the overall dimensions were close enough, because I changed the shape to conceal the digital panel.

This is will mount to the steering column, with a bracket that extends up from it. There is also a lot of detail left to add in face panel, around the touchscreen. A momentary switch, and probably a couple idiot lights, go on either side of it, and I will add some organic curves, and recess the screen a bit. I want a removable, bubbled, old-TV-style, glass cover for the touchscreen.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I've been working on the pedal assembly. I'll be moving around working on different areas to make sure that I don't miss anything, or underestimate anything, in pursuit of this $500 plan. I needed to know for sure that the pedals would work with the master cylinders relocated up front. I also decided, while I was in that area, to see if the dual-function throttle pedal idea was going to work; even though I won't have electric power right away.

















Yup and yup!  I have a lot of work to do to adjust the height and spacing of the pedals, but I can't really do that until the seats are actually in place and the floorboard is in. In this tight space, driver position means everything for exactly where components are located, as there's almost no such thing as repositioning one's self. Making adjustments is a simple matter of bending and/or cutting and welding the levers. The brake and clutch pedals also have a lot of adjustment in position with the push rods - they're actually at the end of their adjustments, back about an inch too far, in these pics.

I am going to lower the throttle pedal. The stirrup is supposed to be just off the floor. The reason it's so high here is I changed the design. It was supposed to be longer, but when I started working out the design for it I realized that if the pivot point was too high on my foot the motion was unnatural. The original design had the pivot point in the ball of the foot, but we actually pivot at the ankle.

Hold your leg straight out, toes pointed up, and put your heel on a thin edge, then point your toes forward - natural motion. Now, point your toes up and put the arch of your foot on the edge, and point your toes forward, rocking around that edge - unnatural; you have to actually lift the heel off your foot, and you should feel muscles working that didn't the first time. I actually want a tiny bit of resistance, so that summoning the electric drive requires a purposed effort. If the pivot was all the way at the bottom it would be too easy to ride around draining the batteries, with the electric drive working when it shouldn't be - like a highway jaunt, where your muscles tend to get a little fatigued and mind a little lazy.

I worked pretty much blindly, off my new design and instinct, making patterns, cutting, forming, grinding, welding, and grinding, steel, all day yesterday (still have more grinding to do...). I didn't stop until it was in the car - then I walked away from it. Today, I contorted myself under the fragile foam roof framework, and into position and put my foot in the stirrup.

First impression, it's surprising how natural the stirrup feels. Secondly, the pivot point is perfect.  I had to try to hold the unbolted assembly still but both motions are very natural. The only stress on my body was from being doubled over trying to hold the assembly while working the pedal. I think after a couple hundred miles this will be completely intuitive, and a helluva lot of fun!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I finally have the pedal assembly far enough along to move on to the dash bar. I lowered the throttle pedal (cut-weld-grind), adjusted the spacing on the clutch and brake pedals (hammerformed), and shortened the push rods, so the brake and clutch pedals are pretty much in place now. I have to get an 8mm die to thread the clutch rod a little deeper, and need to buy or fabricate a new push rod for the brake, with a high-misalignment pivot ball - it works but has a little bind in it where the current ball hits its limit. The clutch pedal is a little under an inch from the firewall at the end of its travel, and the brake will be about the same.  I still need to finish grinding the welds on the stirrup then, someday, invest countless hours to grind all these parts into artwork. 


















I contorted into position and took them for a _test drive_ again, and it's really nice now. Narrow driving shoes will be mandatory for when things get serious. My Nike sneakers' wide soles require a little thought and effort to hit one pedal at a time, but comfort and practicality are not Schism's forte.

Next I start on the dash bar, to set the stage for the steering. If Kez is able to make it in tomorrow, to finish the right side cage front bar, I will get started on the dash bar. If not, I will finish the front bar, and hopefully get to the dash bar by the weekend.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Great to see how the pedals will look. 

I'll never be able to drive Schism though, I'm a steel toe boot kinda man and my feet will never fit in there!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Great to see how the pedals will look.
> 
> I'll never be able to drive Schism though, I'm a steel toe boot kinda man and my feet will never fit in there!


Hey, I didn't see this post! 

Not only will your steel toe probably not fit, I don't think you - or anyone else normal size - will fit in the car period!  I really didn't mean to do it, but I designed a car that is almost too small for me!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Moving forward to the dash bar and steering, I stuck the Honda steering column in the car to get an idea of how it's going to fit and mount. It's stripped down to just the steel underpinnings, and is being used to capitalize on Honda's height adjustment mechanism, which I always liked.

It became painfully obvious, really quickly, that the 13.5" steering wheel just wasn't going to work. In fact, I don't even think a 12" wheel would fit, so I am not going to waste my time making a mock-up, or money buying one. I did some parts shuffling, and swapped the 13.5" wheel into the Model E, and it's little 10" wheel to Schism. The funny thing is I purchased the 10" for just this reason - in the initial mock-ups of that car I knew I couldn't fit anything larger. Now, Model E has grown, and Schism has shrunk and the wheels needed to be swapped.  That was a purposed thing. I have purposely been removing as much of "me" from the Model E as possible, over the last year, and that 10" wheel was 100% _Todd_.


















With that wheel, I am also reclaiming my chunk of Maple burl, and resuming the process of making that steering wheel. It's actually going to be even better on Schism, because I am not trying to incorporate hidden control buttons in it. I have a perfect little piece of 6061 bar stock to carve a hub, will machine spokes on the ShopBot, and get Curt to TIG it all together for me. The hub is going to be a ball and stem to match the shifter, e-brake handle, and planned switch knobs.

I just have to come up with a plan to make the Maple burl work with the Ebony Black & White accents I have. I'm thinking Ebony B&W inlays in the burled rim, and then maybe some burl inlays in the Ebony pieces that will follow, but am also open to ideas, cough, Woody.  I could also use your guidance on resuming work on that rim. I'm actually ready to start cutting any time on that. I wasn't familiar with 2D machining on that machine back then, but am completely competent in it now. 


More on the rim and hub tomorrow. The CAD madness is about to happen, and I will resume machining the burl rim soon, but the actual hub, spokes, and weld-up, may be a little further down the road. I am mainly trying to lay the ground work, so I can set the steering column accordingly. I also want the rim to be cut and settled long before the rest of the wheel is finalized and cut, so I can make any necessary adjustments to suit how it chooses to end up.

The ten-inch wheel is an absolute necessity to fit in Schism's impossibly restricted interior. I was able to contort my way in again and it feels perfect. It kind of completes the ridiculous feel of the car, from the driver's seat, and should be quite an experience with 1-1/2 turns lock to lock - can you say adult sized kart?!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Getting the basic direction roughed in.









There is a lot more detail to come in the rim, where the spokes land. I have a few ideas, and haven't decided which route I'm going yet. That is where I think the Black & White Ebony inlays will be...

The aluminum rim section, and spokes would be CAD/CNC, the hub would be lathe-turned, and everything would be TIG'd together. A Wilwood quick disconnect hub would be machined, for aesthetics, and welded to the base of the hub.

The main point here is to develop the overall dimensions, and process I intend to follow, so I can have the steering column set to accommodate this wheel. I hope to be able to simply pop it on in place of the Grant, when it's ready.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That looks good. Not sure how you want the details to look yet but the full supporting ring of metal should help stabilise the burl enough to not distort, I think.
It may still crack and move though so the machining process will still be a cut and wait process to see how it progresses.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That looks good. Not sure how you want the details to look yet but the full supporting ring of metal should help stabilise the burl enough to not distort, I think.
> It may still crack and move though so the machining process will still be a cut and wait process to see how it progresses.


Thanks Woody. More on those details will be coming...


_From the Inhaler Race Rod thread:_


Woodsmith said:


> ...Have you only planed one side so far?
> If so turn over and skim the other side parallel to this one losing maybe 1/4" thickness and then open out the hole.
> Given the size you may be able to take 1/2" off the diameter with no worries.
> 
> ...


Picking up where we left off, that ^^^ was completed today. 











I cut the original dash out of the body today, so I could get my dash taped in place.










This old foam plug is pretty beat up but I think the original models and CAM files are locked up or lost in my coffee-saturated external hard drive.  I may have to protect this with my life, and fix it up. 











This is all in preparation for doing the dash bar. It's cut and sectioned because parts of how it's going together might be extremely difficult/impossible to do on a bender, and because I had the old roll cage main hoop just sitting here, doing nothing, with the perfect curves in it.  The holes are for plug welds. Pieces of tubing will fit, snugly, inside each joint, and be welded to the tubes through the holes, and also caught in the weld at the seam. Also notice the edges are chamfered. This will all be ground smooth to look like one piece. The chamfers insure good penetration, and a strong joint.










I was inside again, for another "test drive". It is soooo tight in there! Making everything clear and work is going to be one helluva challenge, but I think I'm up for it. The first casualty might be the Honda steering column. That adjuster will interfere with the clutch work, as it is. I also cut the opening for the shaft in the firewall way oversize, to give myself room to experiment. I am going to give it a try before tucking my tail and stringing a plain piece of tubing through there.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Almost there on the steering wheel rim. I have some decisions to make on some of the finishing touches, but I have the critical stuff ready so the machining can proceed on a regular schedule. I had to know the shape of the landing areas for the spokes, as the block will be ready to start hogging out material between them soon. I also needed to figure out how I want the Black & White Ebony inlays as I assume it would be better to do that when there is as much material as possible. My designer/metal fabricator's method of doing an inlay will be to machine a pocket and a plug, and stuff it in there! 









I fattened the rim up a bit and ,obviously, pulled the spokes out to the other side of the rim. What I'm thinking is to trap the wood rim between the spokes and the aluminum rim. It will be snugly trapped, but never actually torqued down. I plan to use silicone rubber gaskets between the spoke and the wood, to give it a bit of wiggle room, without having a wiggly wheel.  I modeled the gap in for that.

I _airbrushed_ the worst offenders out, in Photoshop, but didn't get too carried away so you'll have to imagine continuity in the surfaces where it doesn't exist, here. There shouldn't be any abrupt changes in texture, except where the Maple burl and Ebony hardwoods meet. Where it's open on the back side of the landing will eventually be aluminum extending in from the aluminum rim section, with some type of fastener boss in it. I haven't decided what and how the fasteners will be yet.

I've been modeling almost non-stop since 10am...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Posting the CAD rendering of the grille bar socket again, as some of the design cues are beginning to reverberate now. I waited a year to get to "my part" of this project - design; especially CAD. Eventually, I probably should contract a traditional automotive artist to visually bring all this stuff together and show what the "finished" vehicle will look like. I can do decent art, but prefer to spend my time actually developing actual parts and systems, and vehicles; and really just use it to communicate. Maybe I should run an ad for an art intern... 









I can't wait to share the some of the details, like the grille shell, an artistic swipe on the winged "cap" and motor meter, and the textures and finishes that will ice this little cake...


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Looking Good... Can't wait to see all this come together.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks Mike - I think I'm starting to have fun now! 

I haven't forgotten about you either - the inside of my office door is a giant dry erase board, and "Mike's Roof!!!" is in red at the top, left-hand, corner; I've just been beyond swamped, and mentally wasted, for many months now... I'll get there though. 

I owe you one for encouraging me to keep Schism because, now that it's moving beyond training tool to Todd's creative playground, it's helping me relax, unwind, and stretch out - I desperately needed that. I'm also looking for a successor to myself for managing day-to-day operations in the Inhaler Project, so I can focus on growth and supervision; and get my TPD design services back on track (been picking up new clients); money always helps... 

How's your T coming?


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Well, you've been keeping me inspired... My T is on a bit of hold while we build the new house for the wife... Gotta keep her happy... It's actually not possible... But I try... Anyways it should work out, as I can get started back on it about time it starts warming up...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Well, you've been keeping me inspired... My T is on a bit of hold while we build the new house for the wife... Gotta keep her happy... It's actually not possible... But I try... Anyways it should work out, as I can get started back on it about time it starts warming up...


Glad I can help - and good luck with the house!  I look forward to seeing your post-happy-wife progress!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Gauge panel is ready to cut a mock-up unit. I need it to finish the layout of the steering, pedals, shifter, etc. One, I need to verify that it's going to fit where I am planning to put it. Two, I need to make sure I will be able to read it in a glance.









I _think_ the front is going to be CAD/CNC, cut from aluminum or brass billet - depending on what final finish I decide to go with. The rear cover will probably be carbon fiber. If so, the foam core I cut for the mock-up might also serve as a plug for creating a mold.

The elliptical bubbled glass lenses on either side of the digital screen are for warning lights. They will be split into two or three sections, internally, and have the appropriate color LED bulb for the designated warning signal. Turn signals, high beam, probably an electric drive "powered-up" light, etc.



After couple butt sessions in the car, I have come to the conclusion that I don't like the shifter in its current location. I thought about simply moving it over, into the passenger space a bit, but don't like that idea. I decided to research doing paddle shifters, with an electronic control box that would signal stepper motors to push and pull the shifter cables. A quick discussion with a friend in the community workshop, who recommended one of two other members, and it started to feel like one of their typical design-by-committee situations, with all the requisite opinions and preferences, ready to happen.

No way. Not for me, on my car. So, I did more research and found a way to control stepper motors manually with an encoder and a small circuit board - the stepper motor follows the encoder. I am 75% sure I am going for it. My current thinking is that the paddle shifters (right side = upshift, left side - down shift) will turn two encoders, via a ratchet mechanism, controlling two stepper motors, one for each cable. A simple arm on each stepper motor to push or pull the cable. Mix, try, adjust as necessary.

The "paddle shifters" themselves will be shift levers with matching ball knobs. That assembly will mount to what appears to be a separate shaft, just above the steering shaft, for that really old school three-on-the-tree look; with two levers. If what I have in my head works out, that shift column will be the Honda steering column, and height adjuster. By mounting it over the steering column it _should_ push the adjuster far enough above the clutch pedal to not interfere with it. Should. 

More to come...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I've succeeded in designed and building a car so tiny that it's even challenging to find places to put tiny things in it!  I'm cutting the foam rear plug for the gauge housing now, and it's very clear that it's not going to fit on top of the shifter assembly, on top of the steering shaft - it would be in front of the windshield - seeing it wouldn't be a problem, but seeing anything else in that direction would be!!! 

The solution is going to be moving it to the center of the dash, where the electric drive control switch panel was going to be; and finding a new home for that. Talk about putting 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag! I'm going to have to go on a diet, and get down to 75lbs, because at 125lbs, I'm using too much of the available real estate in there!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Wasn't there a plan once to put stuff in the middle of a steering wheel?

Maybe you could have the gauge housing in the middle of the wheel but not turning with it.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Wasn't there a plan once to put stuff in the middle of a steering wheel?
> 
> Maybe you could have the gauge housing in the middle of the wheel but not turning with it.


That was the Model E. Its steering wheel is, someday, going to be the command center for everything on it, so that there aren't any visible gauges and controls on the dash. There will be a little panel with a couple mysterious things on it (biometric thumb swipe power switch, redundant warning lights), but no typical automotive control/monitoring stuff. The is the goal for that car - super modern/hi-tech, but integrated so seamlessly it's "invisible".

Schism (purposely) has almost the opposite approach - everything visible and in-your-face (hence the missing hood and deck - bonnet and boot for you right Woody? ), and myriad of complicated systems. The gauges for Model E are going to be HUD goggles, whereas Schism's are in this antique-cased digital panel. It's too big to look right in the little 10" wheel and, more importantly, would start to make the steering wheel look modern - like there was an air bag hiding in there. 

I think it's actually going to look better in the center of the dash. I screwed up the first attempt and held that piece in the car in different positions (how I figured out it wouldn't work in the planned location), and it actually looks better than what I had planned in the center. Moving the shifter to the steering column also gives the the same command center idea, but with the complete opposite implementation - stuff everywhere! 

Pics coming later, I hope...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

By the time I finally quit, I was too tired to edit pictures and post yesterday, and I went right back to it today, so this took a little while, but here's the update. The foam core for the housing machined perfectly and was glued together last night. Today, I cut the bezel. This is actually a test piece, cut from a couple glued-up pieces of .500" particle board, but it turned out so well, I may use it as a casting plug. There's an investment casting class spread over the next two Saturdays and the guys was going to take another shot at Scrape's headlight for a demonstration piece. I am going to ask him about doing this piece instead of, or along with, the headlight housing. If that fails, I might just machine it from billet aluminum or brass.









The small gouge was my biggest error of the day. I have been fighting a huge migraine all day, and keeping my focus was challenging to say the least. I was trying to make sure the machine was still zeroed, after another dumb mistake, and somehow got the Z axis origin off. I was trying to sit the end mill over a hole, stop the machine, and manually lower the end mill into the hole to check the origin. It lowered and plowed straight in to the bezel before I could get my fuzzy head to hit the stop button. Good thing it was particle board or my 0.0625" end mill would have been toast! Easy fix... 












It's going to mount to a custom little pedestal mount, based on what was going to be a gate plate for the electric drive system switches. Those levers are now destined to be part the column shifter, so I'll figure out something else for the electric drive switches. This will sit in a little cradle mount that swoops down off the dash bar. The dual pivots will allow me to point it at my eyes, and also towards a sexy little "navigator's" eyes, when I'm busy trying to keep the car aimed in the right direction.  A new dash is in the works...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Looks great!

The machining makes me wonder about building an overhead router for my workshop.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Looks great!
> 
> The machining makes me wonder about building an overhead router for my workshop.


Thanks Woody! 

It's a lot of fun, and allows me to at least see some of my ideas in real life. I can't do heavy aluminum machining on it, so I still have an eye on getting a real CNC someday. Right now, I am pretty sure I want to leave Columbus and don't want to lug thousands of pounds of machinery around the country, so I'm holding off on any significant purchases - probably put the money in software and concentrate on design until I actually like where I live.

It would take around 18-20 hours to machine this from billet aluminum!  My fixturing process works really well, so I can actually break it up into two or three days/sessions.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I wanted more room inside the housing for the digital panel, so I cut a .500" ring today, and glued it on. It also eliminated the need for me to machine foam out to fit the two pieces together.









I showed the bezel to the casting guy today and he's up for trying an investment casting of it. His class is two sessions, so we'll make the plaster mold this Saturday. Over the next week it will air cure and then be fired in time for pouring the molten metal next Saturday. 

Wait 'til you see the metal we pour... 

Caveat - I hope it's a successful casting...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Good luck with the casting, Todd, hopefully it will all go well and another finished part will be in the bag.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Good luck with the casting, Todd, hopefully it will all go well and another finished part will be in the bag.


Thanks Woody.  "Finished" is a funny word, what's it mean?! 



 After casting I have a little clean-up to do, then sand, sand, sand, and polish, then brush (with fine abrasive pads) to the final surface detail; unless it looks too good polished...
 


 In the middle of all that, I have to lay-up the carbon fiber housing, turn and machine the aluminum mounting inserts that go in/on it, and bond them to it.
 


 Then, I have to finish the CAD work for the aluminum part of the mount, machine and fabricate the pieces for it, have Curt TIG it, and grind, sand, finish that part.
 


 Then, I have to fabricate the steel mount that sweeps down off the dash bar, to locate, mount, and highlight that whole assembly.
 


 Then, I have to create a new dash that complements all that ^^^ stuff!
 


 Whew, I'm tired just thinking about it - I'm going back to bed! 
 
By the way, the electro-mechanical column shifter design is coming along quite well. I have the basics of how the mechanical system will ratchet, and turn the encoders to the proper degree for each gear, sorted out. As per my normal design process, I did all that in my head, with the assistance of a lot of chicken scratch sketching, and have now started modeling the ratchet and pawls, then the gears, then the housing - yes, I plan to design and make almost every piece (except for fasteners, etc)!  It's going to mount right on top of the steering column, and have a clear cover, like a watch face, so you can see the mechanical commotion inside. Hmmm, I'd better make sure people can actually see it way down there, and under that impossibly low roof. 

The goal is for it to feel sort of like cycling the bolt, or pulling the trigger, on a really expensive rifle when you pull the "paddles". Beside the mechanics to get the encoders to turn to the right positions, that's what all the design process has been about. Mostly all metal components inside, directly connected to your finger tips, and very smooth distinctive action, with well defined releases, catches, and stops. When you first pull, you'll feel it release the pawl for that direction, then feel yourself winding all the gears up to speed, then just as it begins to gain momentum, and inertia begins to take over, the pawl reconnects and brings it all to a dead stop - gear engaged!  All that happens in about seven degrees of rotation for the shifter and ratchet/pawl, but there is a flurry of activity throughout the rest of the assembly.

I need to develop a feedback loop, to interrupt the encoder's signal to the steppers, if the transmission doesn't go in gear. My first thought is simply sensing the resistance - what happens when a CNC machine encounters something it can't move - the program crashes - but less code, and more simple electrical circuit. I think...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I re-machined the center of the old gate plate to create a mount for the gauge panel. I'm still having issues with the ShopBot (big gouge in the center of the side) but this piece will work. It broke a $60 end mill though.  I purposely left room to hand finish it, so I'll blend that out in the process. I'm going to make a little pedestal mount to fit in the center that the gauge panel will sit on.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Preliminary round of finishing work on the mount. I can't really finish it until I get the pedestal piece designed, machined, and fabricated, but I needed it smoothed out a bit so I can think through what I want it to look like.

















I think it' going to be a ball on a stick, that will protrude through round openings on the sides of the housing a little. I think this base is going to mount to a steel hemisphere, on a ridiculous steel bracket that swoops out from the dash bar of the cage. The clamping mechanism will be a lever under the bottom of the hemisphere. Simple. 

In keeping with the 1913 Open Runabout theme, I am foregoing a regular dash (even that panel I made will be replaced with less "dash"), and concentrating on highlighting all the levers, and pedals, and switches, that consumed early Ferd interiors. The challenge is to make it all speak the same language, and communicate a specific message. In this case that message is something like "coach-built, antique, driver's car".


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

To make good use of that massive-little curved I-beam armrest, since the shifter is moving up to the steering column (where I can actually reach it), I am fabricating a _Todd style_ "big red button", emergency kill switch.









It turns out to be the perfect location, and a very natural action. It's main components are the recycled former shift knob and horn button. The big heavy knob should mean less chance of missing it, and have the ability to tolerate any excessive force exerted in an emergency situation. It will manually disconnect the high voltage traction pack for the electric drive, via a cable and rear mounted switch; and most likely simultaneously disconnect the 12volt source to the ICE ignition system.

The inset photochop is one possible finishing idea - dark red anodized knob, with a black anodized bezel.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The pedestal design was quick and easy as it was just a quick sweep from the geometric cross pattern in the mount up into a spindle for the pivot ball. Now, I have to decide whether I want to machine it or cast it. Either way, there will be a machined mock-up or plug coming soon.


















This little assembly is going to be a smorgasbord of textures and finishes.  This isn't the final decision, just one of hundreds of possibilities. Here, I have a steel lower enclosure, aluminum base plate, nickel-plated pedestal, aluminum pivot-ball receptacles inside a carbon fiber housing, with a brushed aluminum-bronze bezel - whew!  It's conditional, first, upon whether the aluminum-bronze casting works and/or possibly an aluminum-bronze cast plate for me to machine one. The carbon fiber housing is going to be produced with a special, proprietary, process/technique that I am working on. First tests were positive, and it's very unique.

Although I am going to great lengths to develop the aesthetic side of things, everything actually has a serious purpose. The main point, of course, is to benignly graft a digital gauge panel into an "antique" atmosphere. The elaborate pivot ball.pedestal mount will allow one-handed adjustment, to get that screen focused towards the driver's eyes. It can be angled, titled, and rotated, with one hand, and locked in place. The steel hemispherical lower enclosure will be a part of the clamping mechanism, and will also hide the plugs for connecting/syncing to the digital gauge panel.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I planed another .250" off the block, and opened the center hole to 4.5" (actually about .125" over that, off the machine - same as the last time). So far, it has been remarkably stable. One more of these operations, and I begin routing the pockets out between the spokes. This was a great camera shot that really brings out the grain. I can use it to begin plotting what three sections I want capture in the spoke landings.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

This is my chicken scratch overview of the interior. I'm using it to sort out the layout. This is a critical step in the transformation of Schism, from a bunch of handcrafted parts to a functional vehicle. What good is a functional vehicle that is uninspiring or, at worst, unbearable, to experience? That's one of the things that people take for granted, and that a person customizing a preexisting vehicle doesn't have to put so much effort into. I am developing a totally unique driving experience, so I am putting a lot of work and thought into what it will be.









This isn't intended to be "proper" art, it's a tool to accomplish an end. I draw, design parts, sit in the car, imagine it in use, repeat, repeat.

It's all driver, like a race car. There's room for a small passenger, but no room for comfort. The little 10" steering wheel falls right into my "lap", and the gauge panel will be just within reach of my right hand, as all the switches will also be in that assembly. Everything, from the 1.5 turn lock-to-lock steering, to the short travel/close proximity pedals, to the sequential column shifters, to the "floating" little command/information center, must deliver maximum effectiveness with minimal effort. One, because there isn't enough room to move around; and two, because once I am cinched down in the 5-pt harnesses, I won't be able to move much anyway. It's also all designed with the ultimate goal of 1:1 power-to-weight in mind, so that when it, inevitably, gets out of control the atmosphere in the "cockpit" will be as _serene_ as possible.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Tomorrow the casting guy gives the gauge panel bezel a shot. As mentioned, he said the investment mold came out nice (I haven't seen it yet), so it's just a matter of getting the molten aluminum bronze to fill it completely...

In case he's really in the mood to pour lots of molten metal, I cut the pedestal today. It came out so nice it deserves to be investment cast too, but a simple sand cast would work because it's (purposely) a tiny bit over-sized so I can hand fit the two pieces together.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

No luck again with the casting session.  The reason I have been trying to machine plugs and cast them in aluminum is to demonstrate the capabilities of the Columbus Idea Foundry (CIF). That's a part of my deal with Alex. I get unlimited use of the facilities and equipment, in exchange for demonstrating and marketing the services and capabilities of the place. I'm going to have to bypass metal casting for a while until they get some of the bugs worked out of their system. I could simply machine the parts, but they don't have a conventional CNC mill in house and, while technically possible, machining most of my parts, from aluminum, on the ShopBot CNC router table isn't exactly feasible. Even if I can manage to get the parts off the machine, it's probably not something a person paying for machine time could justify...

Anyway, the bezel plug survived the water-based clay investment mold process with minimal damage. I repaired that, and have begun coating it with multiple layers of acrylic paint. The plan is to really detail the external surface, in preparation for some type of casting process. I could actually do a metallic-powder-filled resin cast of that part, and meet all the technical and aesthetic requirements; so, I am finishing it with that process in mind, but still exploring options. That would be something that can be replicated in-house at CIF, using the ShopBot, and their little bell jar vacuum chamber to degas the silicone rubber mix, for a good mold...











http://aldax.com.au/images/cold_casting_2.jpg
http://www.centerlinemodels.com/images/molding3.jpg
http://www.smooth-on.com/imagen.php?src=images/gallery/312/supp4.jpg
http://www.smooth-on.com/prct12_thmx0i.php?img=images/gallery/457/DSC_7691.JPG&w=148&h=111
I'm more inclined to just cut the pedestal on the ShopBot as it's a small part that I don't want to take a chance on. A resin casting of that part could get too warm and go limp or break in the middle of driving...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

After spending some time in the seat, trying to imagine driving Schism - and especially with the type of power I'm seeking - the gauge panel has evolved into a command/information center. Since moving will be difficult, and nearly impossible in the 5pt harness, I need all switches and controls at my fingertips. The most logical location for the switches is in the gauge panel.

This CAD rough sketch: shows the recesses for the three main switches (there will be more, kind of hidden), with the engine start button recessed deeper and slightly behind the main ignition switch location. I didn't go into detail with the CAD model because this will be mostly hand fabrication. The model was just to develop a few hard numbers to guide that process.










First step was to attempt to seamlessly integrate a Honda S2000 engine start button into the antique panel. The ingredients:








The button is internally illuminated, though I'm not sure if the whole button glows red or just the text. If it doesn't, and if I don't like it as-is, I will eventually eventually cast a new button in red-tinted, clear, resin.


After a little manual mill work:










To accomplish this:











I didn't go for a super precise fit, as this is a chrome plated plastic switch in a steel housing. I hate buzzing and rattling, so I plan to mount it with black RTV, to keep it quiet. The steel is cut slightly oversize, and does not adhere rigidly to the shape of the button, for this reason; and to allow for final finishing (paint, powder coat, plating, etc). The two notches are the key, as they orient the switch, and a little bumper on the back engages the OEM spring.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I cut a foam mock-up of the steel base. I needed that to verify the dimensions for the next step in machining, which was to cut the diameter down, leaving a small section on the outside edge for the lip. The rest will be hand shaped. I'll probably also make a pattern off the foam mock-up base to mark the actual steel hemisphere for cutting the recesses.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I kind of reluctantly entered my CAD workshop today, to resume work on the grille. The reluctance is because this is the kind of stuff I love doing, and hours, then days, have a way of disappearing while I'm _in there_. The ball-n-socket bar mounts are finished, and the bar cores can now be produced. I decided to machine them. When the ShopBot is working properly, I am able to get the accuracy I need and these will be cut from plastic, then laminated with carbon fiber, so I can keep the feed rates reasonable enough to not be on the machine forever.









The reason I am bouncing around so much is to get all the major parts sorted out and underway, so that as the car goes together there won't be anything that completely stops progress in its tracks. As I work on assembling the car, I am able to identify the needs for each area, step back and address them, then move forward a few more steps toward a roller. No matter how much planning you do, some things just can't be determined until the car becomes more of a tangible reality; like sitting in the driver's seat and thinking through actually driving a car that has never existed before. It's a really fun, rewarding, process. 

Next up, the grille shell. That's where the time-space warp can occur. I'm tying a rope to my ankle; if you don't hear from me - pull... 

I think the shell is also going to be cut in plastic, and then cast in aluminum, then plated. The smallest radiuses in the sockets will require an 1/8th" ball-end mill, which means it's going to take a while to cut, even in softer materials. If necessary, I'll split it into four sections (for each half, eight total) and glue them together. First I'll try separating the socket machining operations from the rest of the shell, and tricking the ShopBot into getting the job done quickly. Again, the point is to try to develop processes Columbus Idea Foundry members can use, with the available equipment; and help market its offerings and capabilities.

Holds nose, and jumps...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It's so much easier in my world.
Pencil, paper, hacksaw, file.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Coming up for air... the basic shape has been sorted out - now it's time for details! 









I have to cut all the socket openings (they're in there, ready to shine), add the lower mounts, and then begin sculpting the wings for the top mount. I cannot wait to share my _Todd _vision for the wings and motor meter. 

I might have to rethink my original plan for bolting the front and rear halves together. It was supposed to have lots of bolts in counterbored holes, running around the shell; but I don't think I want to break up the shape now. I'm thinking about having fewer, exposed, external, bolt bosses on the inside between some of the sockets. I was also supposed to bend the whole deal, but I am going to try it straight first.

Don't let the CAD model fool you either, this thing is tiny. It's only 15-1/2" tall, and 1-1/2" deep.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> It's so much easier in my world.
> Pencil, paper, hacksaw, file.


 I still do the pencil and paper, but avoid the hacksaw and file as much as possible. When I quit buying car parts and raw materials, and invest in an iPad and a good stylus, pencil and paper could be a rare occasion as well.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I taught a welding class today and my intention. afterwards, was to go out for a little R-n-R. I decided eat first, to finally sit for a few minutes, and then opened Rhino... Needless to say, I never went out, but I did get the socket openings cut.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Time to spread my wings. 









The plan is to have the shell ready to cut a test/mock-up piece this week. I need it on the actual car to develop the hard numbers for modeling the wings and motor meter.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Almost done with the shell! I have a little clean up work to do on the back of each half, around the sockets, but it's pretty much there. I ran it through the programming software and the machine times are reasonable with a 0.125" ball end mill, so cutting the plugs will work as intended. The funny thing about this is it's probably the only part on the entire car that has no functional aspect, but I have an incredible amount of time invested in it, with a longgg way to go. Along with what's left of the T-bucket body, it's the signature piece that identifies the car (also identifying the specific vintage), so it's critical to helping all those other functional parts come together aesthetically, as a sum, a whole, a car... 









I decided on four, large, heavily stylized,bolt bosses to clamp it together; and had a little fun with the upper mesh bars, bending them around the bosses.  Those will probably have to be printed, as they have too many angles to machine (possible, but not practical). If the bolt bosses look huge to you, remember how tiny the whole thing is, and the fact that it's between your knees and ankles on the car. 










Today, I am cutting wood mock-ups of the front and back halves of the shell - without the sockets - to test it to the car, and develop the hard numbers for the wings and motor meter.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm looking forward to seeing the mock-ups mocked up!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing the mock-ups mocked up!


As you wish... 

I still need to do some minor trimming and need some socket head bolts, but a few strips of tape allows a peek at Schism's new mug.

























Told you it was tiny!  It's almost lost in the midst of all the electric drive stuff - just enough to give a clue what you're looking at. 

I love the clean all-business look so much that I started thinking about how to get rid of the steering rack in that area. The modified Honda knuckles are originally rear steer, and I would probably have to cut the steering arms off and fabricate new ones to get the Ackerman right in a front steer setup, soooo....

I think I can stuff the Appleton rack between the differential and the motor, swap the knuckles back to rear steer configuration (eliminating the need for new steering arms), and have my cake and eat it too. The challenges are: it brings the steering shaft up at a weird angle, that would be too much for a u-joint to handle; and, the rack would move the wheels in the wrong direction!  I guess, with practice, I could get used to that. 

Woody inadvertently provided the solution in his trike thread - a beveled gear box, that simultaneously changes _*and*_ reverses the direction! So I can put the rack exactly where I want it, poke the shaft up out of the chaos where there's an opening, and get it aimed back at the steering wheel - and turning the right direction! Awesome!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> As you wish...
> Woody inadvertently provided the solution in his trike thread - a beveled gear box, that simultaneously changes _*and*_ reverses the direction! So I can put the rack exactly where I want it, poke the shaft up out of the chaos where there's an opening, and get it aimed back at the steering wheel - and turning the right direction! Awesome!


I could offer to send you this steering box.








But I fear it will be bigger then your whole project!

A hint, from opening it up, in case you are going to build one with diff spider gears. 
The splined vertical shaft has the bevel gear at the bottom end sitting in an oil bath. There is a bearing at the top and at the bottom of the shaft. The horizontal shaft has the bevel gear just inside the box and is supported on a double row bearing.
This keeps good oil lube to both gears and reverses the direction.

The VW box is a sealed unit.








It looks like it is just the two bevel gears (so doesn't reverse the steering), one above the other, and probably grease packed.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I could offer to send you this steering box.
> 
> But I fear it will be bigger then your whole project!...


I think so! 





Woodsmith said:


> ...in case you are going to build one with diff spider gears...


You just think you know me so well, huh?! 





Woodsmith said:


> ...probably grease packed.


I was thinking that grease packed would be sufficient - especially since, with 1-1/2 turns lock-to-lock, it won't really be doing a lot of spinning. 


Thanks for the feedback - I really like the double bearing idea.


----------



## johnjcbs (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi Todds ,I wanted to look at some of your finished projects,but all I could find were mockups and computer drawings.
Do you have links to all of your finished projects?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

johnjcbs said:


> Hi Todds ,I wanted to look at some of your finished projects,but all I could find were mockups and computer drawings.
> Do you have links to all of your finished projects?


Lol, I'm a freelance industrial designer - those CAD models _are_ my finished projects!  A lot of the work I do is on other people's projects, often delivered as a CAD model for their machinist of choice to cut. Frequently, it's product development work, that I can't even discuss (non-disclosure agreements), and sometimes never get credit for.

I am also becoming a teacher and mentor more and more, and my finished projects, in that case, walk out of the doors. I have posted pictures of some of them in my threads. 

As for my former automotive projects, believe it or not, I was never much for taking pictures of what I was doing; before, during, or after. This extensive documentation is a new thing for me that came with my obsession with social media, and pursuit of a Communications degree (practicing "telling the story"). Stay tuned, maybe I'll keep snapping pics until there is a "finished project" to show. 

Lastly, because my real passion is design, some of my projects never make it to what others would call "finished" under my _watch_. When they get that close, I have a habit of becoming bored with them because the design challenges are over, and someone can have the privilege of "finishing" them; often for pennies on the dollar. With that in mind, Schism was designed to create an almost perpetual design challenge. It's a collection of ideas, parts, and systems, that are presented as a comprehensive vehicle. For every opportunity that I open, there are ten more inside it...

Simple.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Roll Royce Wraith concept "Spirit of Ecstasy" - Inspiration.









Goal: not quite so ethereal, but not "normal" either - whatever that word means.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I can't believe how much time I have in this piece already!  I have been working on it, almost none stop, since around 10 o'clock this morning!  Plus, all the other days I worked on it...

Meet the "Spirit of OCD"









This piece actually does have a function - it is the grossly over-done upper "radiator support", for the grille that has no real function. 

One, this is just a rough-in. From here I have to decide how much detail and precision I want to put in the model, and how much I want to do by hand. I could actually cut this, as is, and do all the detailing by hand, as most of what needs work are places where material would be removed.

Two, keep in mind it's really tiny. Overall dimensions of the "bird" are about 5.625" long, 2" tall, and 3.5" wide. It could fit in the palm of a man's hand. The Bat-T logo "motor meter" is around 1.375" in diameter. It will be interesting to see if people even notice it on first glance, in midst of the electric drive's chains, sprockets, and diff; and all the exposed, sculptured, suspension stuff. I planned it to be one of the things, with incredible attention to detail, you "find" in the midst of all the other OCD things. 

The hood(less) molding will sweep back to the cowl, with a slight curve and tapering to kind of a pointer type point; and will be inset into the body. I'm working on plans and processes to machine that, including the Bat-T logo in the end, on the ShopBot from aluminum bar stock. There's a neat texturing featuring that I would like to use in the background areas around, and inside, the "T", so that when it's plated the T pops out.

I am also debating finishes. Both pieces will be plated, and slightly contrasting. Maybe something like brushed and polished nickel - plus, the grille shell will be plated or anodized, so all this has to work together.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Any feedback on the Spirit of OCD? I was hoping to get a few comments and opinions, good or bad (I can take it ), before investing more time into it.


----------



## madmike8 (Jun 16, 2011)

Well, if it looks the way I'm picturing it in my head, then I think it'll look great.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

madmike8 said:


> Well, if it looks the way I'm picturing it in my head, then I think it'll look great.


Thanks Mike!  I am probably going to do a little detail work in the wings, and then start cutting one from modeling board soon.  I thought there would be a lot of feedback between this forum, a musclecar forum I post on, and the Facebook page, but nothing... I am purposely pushing the envelope with some of the design cues on Schism and expected to get some "hate mail" with this one.


----------



## MalcolmB (Jun 10, 2008)

I like the side view at the very top of the page best. It has the look of a raptor. I would move the bat logo further forward so it's almost nestling between the shoulders of the bird, as if being carried on the wing.

In the other views the head of the bird looks more like a downturned lily, I think it loses some strength there. Just my two bitcoins...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

MalcolmB said:


> I like the side view at the very top of the page best. It has the look of a raptor. I would move the bat logo further forward so it's almost nestling between the shoulders of the bird, as if being carried on the wing.
> 
> In the other views the head of the bird looks more like a downturned lily, I think it loses some strength there. Just my two bitcoins...


Thanks Malcolm - very much appreciated. 

You made me realize that I should have explained it better.  There actually isn't a head. I didn't think about the fact that the base could be seen as a head, in this view, because (once again) _in my head_ I see the whole thing. The base blends almost seamlessly into the grille shell. It will probably look more like the _foot _of a headless bird!? 









Also, a part of the flower look is actually one of the things I didn't finish; and might not, on the model. There is some wrinkling in the top surfaces of the base that weren't intentional. I have the choice of spending an hour or so in CAD perfecting them or probably minutes with a sanding drum on the actual casting plug - really a toss up with me.

Old cars often featured wings on the radiator cap (usually no other parts of the bird). Since there's no radiator, and I needed an upper support...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I decided to just add a couple feature lines in the wings, to add a little motion to it, and the boss/counter bore for the motor meter mounting bolt, and do the rest of the detail work by hand. I need to see it on the car to determine just how much detail I want in it. I'm going to cut it tomorrow, or early next week.









The larger the end mill the less detailed the feature lines will be. I don't really want a lot, just a subtle hint; and I'll blend the edges a bit by hand, after I see it cut.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I epoxied a couple pieces of modeling board together...









...and started whittling;









until I ended up with this:








The broken wing tips are because I live in CAD, and forget sometimes that what is possible in my world is not always feasible here on Earth.  They were quite literally paper thin, and couldn't stand up to the violence and terror of a carbide end mill spinning at 1y0K. I had the ShopBot running really gentle and slow too, but the just blew away into the piles of chips; literally.  I will round them off, by hand, from where they are.

You might also have noticed that the feature lines in the wings are just very lightly cut. I chose a 0.375" ball end mill that gave me all the detail I needed in the whole piece, but wouldn't sink into these too deep. From here, I will experiment, by hand, using the cuts as templates until I find what I'm looking for.

As mentioned, it's tiny and can be easily lost against the busy backdrop of drivetrain components.


















A strip of wood gives a clue of how the molding, along with the front cage tubes, will create the image of a hood; when there is none.  This is the first time I've ever done a project like this. Normally I would start with a hood and concentrate on eliminating everything possible to make sure all you see are its lines. With Schism, it's the exact opposite - I have to keep strategically adding things until it paints the right picture. Now that I'm getting used to it, it's kind of natural because it's like drawing. The right lines, here and there, and the mind starts to see curves and reflections, and three-dimensional shapes that aren't on the paper.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I cut the motor meter/hood trim piece yesterday, but was too sleepy to post it by the time I finished (late last night). The process I would like to pursue for realizing all these little parts is pretty intense, but it will yield awesome results. After the plugs are detailed and finished, I want to make silicone rubber molds of them, then cast them in wax, for lost wax metal casting.


















I still need to create the recess in the firewall that will let the back drop into place, and the motor meter to fit into the wings properly. I cut the motor meter section from modeling board, and the trim section from a piece of oak wood. I wanted the surface quality the modeling board provides for the motor meter and the toughness the oak provides for the long, thin, trim piece; so I can work on it and test fit as much as needed, without concern of breaking it. It was also good practice in machining wood for the steering wheel.


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That line looks nice, really brings your winged mascot to life!

I do keep looking at those exposed sprockets and wondering about how the 'health and safety' people would see it!

"Don't poke it while the car's movin'!"


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> That line looks nice, really brings your winged mascot to life!...


 Thanks Woody! It's fun to see my grandiose little miniature vision come to life! 





Woodsmith said:


> ...I do keep looking at those exposed sprockets and wondering about how the 'health and safety' people would see it!...


Luckly, I don't have any of those to deal with, but the Spirit of OCD tells me it's a bit nervous about what's happening under it's belly. 





Woodsmith said:


> ..."Don't poke it while the car's movin'!"


...and keep those wings up little bird!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With all the hubbub over my newest "venture", PackRat, I thought I should post what it means for Schism. Quite a bit, really.

The further I go with Schism, the further I want to go. I am blown away by how much is locked inside this concept, and I really want to fully explore it. I know people want to see it move, but I want to be it be all that I see.  Deadlines and due dates compromise things. From a business perspective, Schism is working and very effectively, right here on the shop floor. The more I explore my advanced design concepts, the more I am able to attract and secure the kind of clients I really want, and I'm just warming up!

So, Schism will continue to be my flagship, and will get the majority of my available resources - it just won't be rushed. PackRat will give me way to "get on the road" and meet those (self-imposed) deadlines and due dates. I won't even say a place to dump excess creativity, because I think that's how Schism started! 

In a nutshell, expect to see me go completely off the deep end here...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I have been working on this piece over the past week. The point is to countersink the hood molding into the cowl. I just did a step or two here and there around other work. First the model, then cut a plug from a scrap piece of oak, paint it, a few coats of mold release, then carbon fiber (because it makes a thinner, stronger part).

















Next, the cowl will be cut, and the piece will be bonded in.









In the new, go for the limit, plan for Schism I would like to have this body rolled and hammered out in aluminum someday; so I view this as the plug to develop what that ultimate body will be...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Last round of planing and opening the center hole. The burl billet now stands at 1.68" thick, with ~5.125" center hole and is very stable. It has never exhibited any signs of warping, twisting, or measurable change. If that holds true in the next few weeks or so, I will begin the process of carving out the rim. It gets Black and White Ebony wood inset into the spoke landing areas, and I start hogging out material between the three landings. If it survives all that, I will, eventually, someday, start whittling the final shape. I wonder if there's a record for the longest build time ever for an automotive steering wheel?! I bought this block about two years ago. It had been aged for three years at that point. Five years and counting, and I'm still working on the wood rim...


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The best things come to those who wait. 

I hope the rest of the process proves just as successful.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> The best things come to those who wait. ...








Woodsmith said:


> ...I hope the rest of the process proves just as successful.


While we're on the subject: I have your instructions from 2011  saved and have been following them for each step, thus far. The inset pieces are a new thing, so I wanted your feedback on when they should go in. My, non-woodworking, mind thinks it would be best to get them in as soon as possible.

The process I have in mind, unless you say not to, is to machine three cutouts, machine three plugs, glue them in, and resume machining like I never did it after it's fully dry. The dark shapes in the rendering are where the Ebony wood pieces go.










When I do start machining again, I will be following you advice and machining the wood out between the spoke landing areas, in large radius scoops at first, and then gradually closer to the final shape. That ball on the end of the spokes is actually the ball end of a mount. That .500" diameter shape will protrude through the wood to clamp against the landing area of the aluminum rim in back; so the wood rim will be trapped but not tightly clamped. Those three holes are the points I plan to use to secure the whole thing to the fixture plate, as it gets closer and closer to shape - and to register it from front to back.

Thoughts?


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

The only risk I can see in putting the inserts in too soon is if there is movement then the inserts may move relative to each other.

However, I guess as there has been no significant movement so far, and continuing in the same way may result in a sufficiently stable piece of wood then it could be worth the risk.

You would need to be able to index the inserts relative to the rest of the machining so that they do not 'drift' out of alignment.*

Personally I would get it to the stage where the outline of the wheel is cut but the wood still flat and square section. Then the insert positions can be indexed relative to the machining axis and then put in just prior to final outline cuts and profiling.

*Is it just the one insert location where the mounting ball is or are there others around the rim?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

toddshotrods said:


> ...My, non-woodworking, mind thinks...





Woodsmith said:


> The only risk I can see in putting the inserts in too soon is if there is movement then the inserts may move relative to each other...


The reason I asked.  My mind is so geared to metal, that the reality of what can happen to a piece of wood just doesn't come shining through, sometimes. I was thinking that the three pieces would always be where I put them, like a state in a country, and not about the fact that the whole darn continent could move! 





Woodsmith said:


> ...Personally I would get it to the stage where the outline of the wheel is cut but the wood still flat and square section. Then the insert positions can be indexed relative to the machining axis and then put in just prior to final outline cuts and profiling...


Makes perfect sense (now ) - I will be doing it your way. The whole point of this process was to allow the block the freedom to do what it wants to do, and finding my rim in what remains. I was attempting, again, to lock the shape in and make the block conform...

I have to adjust my design philosophy on this steering wheel. I am going to keep everything kind of fluid until the rim is finished, meaning I will be able to locate the rest of the components to match the wood, not machine the wood to match them. I think you've been telling me that for two years now!  I can even move or change those inset pieces to match what happens with the rim.





Woodsmith said:


> ...*Is it just the one insert location where the mounting ball is or are there others around the rim?


There are three. There is only one in that rendering because that's the one I am developing in CAD. When it's finished, I will copy, paste, and rotate two more around the wheel - to match the rim!!!! 

Thanks Woody!


----------



## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> The reason I asked.  My mind is so geared to metal, that the reality of what can happen to a piece of wood just doesn't come shining through, sometimes. I was thinking that the three pieces would always be where I put them, like a state in a country, and not about the fact that the whole darn continent could move!


Plate tectonics. 

The other thing to consider is that you could fit the metalwork to the insert's final position and allow the wheel to be very slightly out of round, if it wanted to be, and the inserts to not be exactly at 1/3 of the circumference.
No one would notice if there is a millimeter discrepancy here or there if there is nothing to measure it against.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> Plate tectonics. ...








Woodsmith said:


> ...The other thing to consider is that you could fit the metalwork to the insert's final position and allow the wheel to be very slightly out of round, if it wanted to be, and the inserts to not be exactly at 1/3 of the circumference...


Yup, following your lead 100% - until I get my next hair-brained idea about how to work wood! 







Woodsmith said:


> ...No one would notice if there is a millimeter discrepancy here or there if there is nothing to measure it against.


Even though I know it's true, _that_, is such a hard pill for little OCD me to swallow.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Man, has adding PackRat to my _collection_ been a revealing experience!


In hindsight, I can see even more clearly where Schism took a 90-degree turn. It was born out of my need to have something more "me" as the Inhaler started to take on a life of its own. Schism, ironically, ended up following its own path too...
I made that decision consciously; first, to help develop the G-bucket line, then secondly to meet the need of training the interns and volunteers.
While I like what Schism has become, and am looking forward to that journey, it is still not quite what I want, for me. 
It also ended up being somewhat of a mixed bag ideologically and practically - bare nuts/quick-n-dirty hot rod; teaching tool; top shelf show and race car. 
I am trying to box myself in with PackRat, by not allowing anyone else's needs or desires to dictate _what_ it is, or interns to work on it, and by making sure it's not a practical platform for me to try to race at any serious competitive level. 



The next steps are purging Schism of all the disparate ideas and parts; stepping back and taking a look at what remains; then setting a clear course forward. It's actually hard to do, because some of it requires taking a few steps back in areas where we had made significant progress - though some of that progress is vague and riddled with compromises.

This post is just a heads-up, in case it seems like this project has stalled or started to backslide - I'm just trying to refine and purify the message. All indications, at this point, seem to say _serious_ street-legal race car; but I have to really count the cost of that and find out what else has to be reversed/re-done to meet safety and sanctioning body requirements. Massive power has been a part of the plan for quite a while, but making racing the number one priority changes how often and how violently that power is exploited.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Just noticed the ratings thing again here. I suspect that I have one, or a couple, proactive "fan(s)" who don't like hybrids, or maybe me... 

The Inhaler always had a five star rating, until it resurfaced recently. I don't really care, just find it curious. I never understood why forums use popularity contest style ratings to determine the value of technical conversations?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

So, I'm pretty certain the final decision is in - Schism is going full race; street legal, but a purposed race car.

Curt and I have been tossing this around for quite a while, and the hold up was always me, because of my design stuff. Sometimes, the two are conflicting interests and I wouldn't surrender some of my aesthetic concerns for the sake of performance.

PackRat has changed all that. I have a place to put _me_ now, and can see Schism more clearly. That's kind of what it has naturally gelled into - a race car. It's just the most logical way to finish what we started. My guess is this will be a 50/50 mixed bag on progress, as some things can move faster, without the need for aesthetic _perfection_; while others might simmer until the budget permits a course of action that will satisfy the sanctioning bodies.

I am moving some of my stuff off this project, to liberate Schism of anything not mission specific.


*The steering wheel gets bounced once again, to PackRat this time.* I had concerns about it surviving the hostile environment of controlling massive power anyway. The plan was to have a second, race wheel, ready to pop on. One, simple, lightweight, strong, race wheel is better.
*The Spirit of OCD goes to PackRat.* As soon as I got it cut and mocked up, I started to wonder about it on Schism - that's what stopped the progress on it. The issues are the chain (which will be subject to the torque of the 11" GE motor) directly under it, and and the fact that we're almost certainly going to need a structural brace, or maybe even actual roll cage tubes, there.
*The ball and socket mesh grille.* There's actually nothing wrong with it. It should be relatively lighweight, but the time it would take to machine and fabricate it will be better spent on go-fast parts.
*The rod ends that were to mount the upper control arms.* These have already been ushered off to PackRat. I came up with that to have something that the interns could fabricate. It isn't rigid enough for a purposed race car - minor flex means additional lap time. Back to the original design, for CAD/CNC mounting blocks that can be swapped for different purposes and development work. Shims will be used for fine-tuning.
Not really a lot of changes. Most of what was done is already aimed at racing. It's a little heavier than it could have been, because of the abundance of .250" steel plate, but it's strong enough to be beat on, mercilessly.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Ironically, all the hubbub over how off track I am in the pursuit of my long-range goals, the creation of the PackRat project, and the transfer of my pure design goals to it, have caused me to remember what the original point was with this project!  Schism wasn't originally created to be an over-the-top design project, or a race car, it was supposed to be a "simple" (by _Todd_ terms) little hot rod to putt around the streets in while I worked on my more serious project (which was the Inhaler, at that time).

Leap forward in time, and the Inhaler belongs to the Columbus Idea Foundry, I have my first marginally functional EV in Scrape, and now have PackRat as my pure design canvas. Then, as I am working on PackRat, there is Schism sitting on the shop floor, stripped of all the excess, and I see that original intent again! It looks simple, fun, easy. All things considered, it would not be what's on the floor right now without having gone on that incredible, exhausting, journey.

The point is, whether I eventually sell it, or magically find a way to make it fit in my plans, I remember what it is supposed to be and will be taking it in that direction.










Without the big GE motor hogging up so much real estate under the hood, there is room to push the pedals forward and get enough leg room to make it a real driver. I am going to cut the firewall out, and the pedals will go on a sliding track for adjustment, instead of having a sliding seat.









I considered the idea for PackRat, but am now seriously thinking about front hub motors on Schism. It would keep the front end simple and clean, and provide enough momentum to move what will now be a true featherweight car on all-electric power easily. Since racing is not the point, the extra un-sprung weight isn't a real concern either.



And, instead of creating the impression of a hood with tubes and trim pieces, it will get a real hood. I kept the 1913 grille shape, and the front half of the shell. As mentioned, there are a lot of neat little details that came out of the journey to excess.










This will likely be a slow-moving effort for a while, as I get PackRat together, but eventually I'll cut the hood and start fabricating again. That should be much easier to make headway, since it only has to meet normal street driving needs now.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

PackRat runs and drives first, and possibly some upgrades to Scrape, but eventually I am going to get Schism together. To get it all buttoned up and fired up (ICE) is only around $1500, without the performance crap. I can't lose with that because, as a non-running, incomplete, shop project I'd have a hard time even selling it. As a unique, running, drivable, vehicle it should be attractive and worth something. I'll roll the dice on $1500-2000.

If I fall in love with it, after it's running, I will start working on the front drive. I really like the idea of hub motors, and might follow Ripperton's lead with the 8kw Chinese motors. A couple EnerTracs would be awesome, but I'd really have to fall head-over-heels to pony up for those, plus controllers, and batteries.

We'll see...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Pretty crazy, possible, development. A fiberglass Porsche 917 replica body might be _*donated*_ to my mission of ridiculous exploits, possibly tomorrow!!!  If this actually happens, the plan is to remove the Model T body work, and figure out how to make this body fit Schism's chassis - sending Schism through a space/time wormhole, and making it a vintage Porsche race car, instead of an antique hot rod. 

The reason I think it will work is the seating position in those cars is pushed way in towards the center of the car, where the hot rod passenger compartment is, and your feet are canted in towards the center, like the Model T body required. Also, I have no upper structure, as the chassis was designed to be a roadster style chassis. The wheelbase is twelve inches longer than the Porsche, but I'm thinking that (with some body mods) the stretch might look good. If not, shortening the chassis would be a few hour job.

The advantages for me are:


It's free, and fills in the "skin" aspect of the project in one donated swipe.
It gives Schism a renewed purpose, and hopefully more commercial value. I am winding down and preparing everything in my studio to go (somewhere) by the end of the year, and would give me something to either enjoy more personally, or sell easier.
Adding to point two: if I end up storing it for a while, I think I would be more motivated to get my "Porsche race car" out of storage and back underway than the old hot rod. I think I am kind of burning out on the antiques. I still love them, but am having trouble with motivation to build them, on a personal level. They're also hard to sell, when not built traditionally - V8, straight axle, metal body, blah, blah, blah...
It would kind of be a unique story to build a hybrid 917 replica, just as Porsche is officially releasing its 918 hybrid supercar. I _*might*_ consider paring my personal projects down to Scrape and Schism, and getting rid of everything else for that - the marketing potential, at first glance, seems huge. Imagine Scrape's official transporter being a, street-legal, Porsche race car replica.  I'm seeing a couple wheel dollies that pull out of the body in back, and carry the little superbike side-saddle. 
More when I hear more details. This is from Eric, that guy that does some occasional CNC machining for me, and who Curt works for. The body is supposed to be delivered tomorrow in Eric's shop truck - a re-purposed deuce-and-a-half military truck.  If this happens the pics of that alone will be worth the trouble.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Typical of my experience with Eric, he forgot he was supposed to deliver the body today (it was his idea, because he needs to move it ASAP).

I just told him thanks but no thanks, I'm backing out of the deal, not taking the body. He should have got it here before I had a chance to regain my senses and remember that I am trying to wind down, sell out, and move on... 

I did learn one crucial piece of information - I had much more enthusiasm and creative flow when I abandoned the "antique" theme. I was thinking of the Porsche more like a modern supercar, and was having fun with it. Makes sense why I prefer Scrape so much more...

Oh well, almost...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Anyway, because my assumptions on what it would take to make the body fit the chassis (and work on a street car) were based on internet pics of actual 917s and replicas, I decided to take a look at the body. It is a modified, for street car purposes, kit car body so it would work easier than I had anticipated. The cabin has been widened and moved back a bit, and the nose has been shortened. Those are things I thought I would have to do, and cringed at the though of the massive amount of composite work. As it is, I would just have to spend a couple/few hours in a head-to-toe paint suit, removing some unnecessary sections, so it would drop over the existing chassis. Basically, everything is in the right place.

























I don't know...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Plugged my nose, and stepped off the high dive! 

























It's almost like I designed this frame for this body. The shifter falls right into place behind the center console stack on the dash. The seats are in perfect position. Even the relatively narrow rear tires I have back there almost make it out to the body. I have to extend the front control arms to get the front tires out a bit, but all in all - very nice fit. I have to do some trimming to get the rear clip to drop in, but far less of it than I had anticipated.

This will leap-frog Schism's development significantly. When I get the body mounted, I can start working on the control arms and have a roller really easily.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With a lot of work and a little honey for the other seat and I'll be ready to hit the town Saturday night! 









This feels really nice, and the more I walk around it the more happy I am that I took the plunge!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

My latest blog, Facebook Page post, and revelation:










What a fascinating journey! Thirty years ago, I actually remember reading ^that article^ and it being a transformational experience. I had been a Ferrari fan for years, and was aware of Lamborghini, but when I saw those pics and read that article, something clicked. I got it. It was _me_ in pics and print, on those pages. Someday, I thought, I must _go there_.


Here I sit, three decades later, with the skills needed to literally _roll my own_ exotic supercar – and the actual car tangibly developing just outside my little office door! Typical of this messy process we call life, it wasn’t planned, it wasn’t premeditated. I just seem to have woke up one morning and found myself _in it_. I did my part by setting the conditions (acquiring the skills, honing/using them, developing the network, etc), and was able to grasp the moment.


One of my favorite quotes: Success is when preparation meets opportunity.


Be ready when it knocks on your door.


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

Thank you for your posts and this last one in particular! It is a reminder to keep working toward my goals.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

GizmoEV said:


> Thank you for your posts and this last one in particular! It is a reminder to keep working toward my goals.


You're very welcome!  Thank you for sharing that - the hope that I can inspire someone else to do what's in them is my fuel.




............and now we return to our regularly scheduled madness. 




This. Is. Fun! The 917 is arguably one of the most radical machines ever, like the Countach above, and I am having a blast putting the _Todd_ touch on one; especially with the realization that I will be able to take this little street-legal race car out in civilization and completely freak people out!  So much fun that I eagerly dove (properly covered, goggled, and respirated, of course) into a cloud of fiberglass dust to get the rear clip to fit. Minor reward = no itching. Major payoff = I can't stop !

Please excuse the ICE intrusion. I wanted to show how well the body fits this chassis. That all looks like it's supposed to be together.










And, all together now...

































I think it looks much better with the stretched wheelbase. The original race cars, as awesome as they were, looked like someone rear-ended them and shoved the wheels forward and under the car. This should be awesome with the rear valance panel. I am toying with the idea of modifying that panel to look like a bog huge diffuser and skinning it with carbon fiber (purely for aesthetic value.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

If you pay attention, life is an awesome teacher, and has a way of lining things up in time for you to have the info you need when you need it most. PackRat helped me get back to the simple concept of simply having fun and building something that makes me smile, just in time for the most "_me_" project I have ever had. Screw the rulebooks, and extreme performance/engineering mandates, just good ol' fashion custom automotive self expression/creative fun. 

The number one priority is getting the body mounted on the chassis, and to do that I needed some type of upper cage structure. That will allow me to kill two birds with one stone - the rear cabin mounts, and the rear clip hinge pivots. Rather than even looking in the direction of the sanctioning bodies' outdated rules, I am building a cage that I like - period. I am playing on the funny car cage theme, originally intended for Schism, but with one curvy roll bar in place of the traditional, multi-tube, upper F/C cage structure. That gives reasonable rollover protection, and keeps the door openings clear, so we can simply step in and sit down. I call it the throne room... 










Instead of a simple, two-bend, hoop I am piecing together something more visually interesting. Except for this dip in the center, all splices will be sleeved and plug welded, chamfered for full penetration at the joint, and smoothed.









This one was just chamfered, welded, and blended, because there are two uprights coming up from the frame; one on either side of the dip.


----------



## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

_Rather than even looking in the direction of the sanctioning bodies' outdated rules, I am building a cage that I like

_That is all very well BUT you won't be able to use it in their events
Of course if you don't want to that is your decision - but then why even mention it?


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Duncan said:


> _..._That is all very well BUT you won't be able to use it in their events...


Indeed, I won't be _allowed_ to participate in their events, and don't plan to try.






Duncan said:


> _..._Of course if you don't want to that is your decision - but then why even mention it?


To note a huge shift in my preferences and intentions. Since long before I came here, sizable portions of my life and career have been centered on following those rules. Even when I wasn't planning on running in their competitions, I usually stuck close enough to the basic formats to be allowed to run in test-n-tune and for exhibition purposes. This time, I am not even making the attempt - I'm doing what I want to do, and I know it's outside the "rules"... I thought that was worth mentioning.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I think I have too much work in this one little bar, but it's getting there. 

There's a slight difference the bends, that wasn't as noticeable as it is all together. Whadda ya want from a Jeg's cage kit?  I can compensate when grafting this hoop into the cage.










Almost there. I have to ream the plug weld holes on the frame tubes out to .750" (from .500"), tweak the alignment, and chamfer the tops of the frame tubes and I can make this permanent. I'll probably just weld half of the plugs, tack the chamfers for now, and finish welding it when I weld the rest of the chassis.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I hope you can deal with the barrage of almost identical pics. I try to share the whole process, in as much detail as possible, for those who like to pick things apart. In this round, I had to set the body because the rear upper mounts go on the roll bar, which is a fixed member of the chassis. Once those mounts are welded and bonded in, the body's position, except for minor (shim) adjustments, is set in stone; so gotta get it right. You'll have to imagine that the wheels are out where they belong, as I didn't get to that yet...

This required making a final decision on stance, which is a combination of ride height, rake, wheel and tire size, and body shape and positioning over them. Done right a vehicle can look like it's performing at full tilt, while standing still. I prefer a ground-scraping, mean, ready to destroy something, radical, American hot rod stance. I have always wanted to do this to an exotic sports car, but it's not easy to pull off because they're already so low. To get the wheel arches to drape over the wheel/tire combo, and still have ground clearance underneath, and headroom inside, is not an easy task. Again, it's like I set out to do this; like all this stuff was designed and created to accomplish that goal.

I decided to follow my heart and go for broke. I channeled the body an additional inch over the chassis.











I'll have to do a little surgery up here to not leave pieces of fiberglass everywhere I go. My plan is to cut an inch or so off and replace it will a full-length carbon fiber composite splitter that will be able to take the abuse. It will also keep the line of body color across the bottom more consistent, as this hangs over an inch lower than the rockers. More on all that later...












Here's the drape over the rear wheel/tire combo. The tires are 26" overall diameter, so with a 18-19" rim (17s up front), from most angles, it will get some paint down into the same plane as the rim. Closing the wheel opening in, and re-shaping it, will accentuate this even more. It should work like slamming a Veyron and stuffing 22s under the back of it.











I love this view. The A-pillars and windshield set down between those huge fender bulges is me, me, me.  I know this is a cheap replica, but 917s had absolutely beautiful lines. You can also see how, from a normal viewing angle, the rocker panels are almost skimming the floor.












Channeling the body that extra inch set my roll bar perfectly just under the roof.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

PackRat was a struggle to incorporate into my future plans, Schism has me banging my head off the wall. I am determined to find a way though, as I really like this car. If I fail, and have to part with it someday, it won't be because I didn't try with everything in me. I did kind of come to my senses, and remember what I was planning before this body came along - Scrape. I almost turned my attention fully to Schism, and lost my way, but have recovered now and can start to plot a more logical course for this project.

One, I have decided to cool the pace (of my ambitions, more than the actual work) down. That means resetting goals, and making them subordinate to what I _need_ to do with Scrape. I have three to four months before the deal is up here, and the most important thing I need to accomplish is getting the body mounted and the chassis rolling and steering.

Two, it must remain the less intense project - the place I come to relax and recharge when I burn out on the obsessive details on Scrape. That means keeping the CAD/CNC to a minimum (to keep me from going off the deep end in design), and not doing over-the-top detail on parts that will never be seen again (that's for Scrape). Those over-the-top details give me personal peace of mind, but they also require a HUGE investment of time and mental energy.

Three, I need to concentrate on getting my business back on track, and making the kind of money I should be making. If I accomplish that I can pay to have a lot of stuff done on Schism. Number two makes that possible because I won't be expecting perfection, and won't have to pay a ridiculous price to get work that's _up to my standards_.


All that being said, I did a little work on the body mounts today. The roll bar is almost ready to tack in, so I need to get the body and rear clip hinge mounts ready so I can tack them on before the roll bar goes in for good. It's much easier to determine the position and add them outside the car, than contort inside that tiny cabin to tack them.

In accordance with items one and two, I simply grabbed a couple pieces of steel from my leftovers, drilled them, turned the heads of two bolts down, and welded them in. I didn't even grind the edges of the plates nice, because they'll be buried in fiberglass soon.  They'll slip into bushings, welded to brackets that weld to the roll bar, and the body can be adjusted with simple shims.


























Next I'll fabricate the chassis mounts for these.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The lovely, talented, awesome, Amanda is back! She was actually working on the Inhaler's motor mount design today but her battery took a nose dive and she didn't have her charger, so she started turning the sleeves for Schism's rear main body mounts.


----------



## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Awesome design work! Just as a word of warning, seeing Amanda working on the lathe, is to be very careful with long hair (and loose clothing for that matter). I have seen pictures of some horrific machine shop accidents and they can happen quickly. Good luck on Schism!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

PStechPaul said:


> Awesome design work! Just as a word of warning, seeing Amanda working on the lathe, is to be very careful with long hair (and loose clothing for that matter). I have seen pictures of some horrific machine shop accidents and they can happen quickly. Good luck on Schism!


Thanks Paul!  I've had some personal close calls - like gloves getting caught and wrapped up in a spinning end mill - so I hear you and will think about it when we're working. No matter how safe you are, one can always take the time to be certain... 

I was looking at the very things you're mentioning, by the way, as she was working on that part. Her hair was tied in a pony tail and kind of clinging to her back, not flopping around. Her shirt was loose but actually farther from the spinning parts than it appears (camera angle). I thought she was going to ruin her shirt, but didn't even see a spec of dirt or oil on it when she left.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Despite all my excitement over this body and the resultant exotic supercar possibilities, things aren't looking good for Schism. My gig here is up in two short months and I don't have a plan to continue this project. I actually want to, but just haven't found any way that makes sense for what/where I need to do/go next. I'm still searching though. I might try to stuff it in a storage unit, if I haven't figured anything else out by then.

After being totally distracted from Schism, in preparing my bikes for the last event, I finally did turn my attention back to it today. I finished fitting the roll bar, so now I can develop the rear body/rear clip hinge mounts. In an idea world, I would have it ready to roll out of here in a couple months, but this world is far form ideal...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

After a lot of soul-searching, number-crunching, and thinking until my brain hurt, I've reached a final decision about where I am going next with Schism, and acted on it. I am in the process of breaking my little operation down, packing up, and getting ready to move out by the 31st.

I decided to sell the 917 body, and at least make an attempt to keep the chassis. Here's the eBay ad for the body.


As for the chassis, as soon as I saw my little roadster chassis again, sans body and front suspension - I saw a trike!  I had been sketching something similar over the past couple weeks, so the front suspension was in my head, and visually _jumped_ onto this bare chassis, when I looked at it. The beauty of it is it cuts the cost of the suspension parts and supplies needed to get it rolling from $750 to a couple hundred bucks (rounded up again, from rounded-up figures); and the price to make it run, from there, down from $1500 to half that (rounded-up again...). So for a thousand bucks it would be running. I have a growing list of stuff for sale, as I sift through all this accumulated crap -if that pays off, I will buy the suspension stuff and roll a trike into storage.

I know, I know - so many twists and turns.  This one is forced by circumstances, and will _hopefully_ allow me to keep the project. 










The wheel is not touching the floor here, because it's sitting in the frame rails. The front of the frame would be clipped off and a swingarm would mount the (car) front wheel, with one of the chopped down Accord front knuckles we did. Steering would still be via a steering wheel, turning the Appleton rack - that would be turned 90-degrees, pushing a fabricated steering arm that bolts to the knuckle. Because that's a drive hub, I can still add electric to the front wheel, as planned.










Sort of like a three-wheeled, Delta Wing-ish, Ariel Atom-ish, kinda thing!  Not a certainty yet, but a very good bet for continuing the mission...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Learning from a previous mistake/missed opportunity, I kept the reserve on the auction low ($500). The first bid was $500, so the new direction is pretty much set in stone. The buyer has a 100% rep, so I don't anticipate any issues.

I know, I know (again), I'm pushing it posting about another gas-engined vehicle, in my gas-electric hybrid thread, on an electric car site, but this little creature is in the general direction of the aesthetic I have in mind for Schism.

I'm thinking some big honkin' air intakes (for the radiator) between the seats and rear wheels, probably exposed carbon fiber, satin finish; and some kind of fairing between the front wheel and steering wheel/dash area. All pure aggression.

The electric front drive will be exposed and highlighted. I really want regen, so I am thinking about AC, but will do whatever is possible/necessary as a stopgap. I'm thinking motor on the, single-sided, swingarm like Squat's rear drive, but scaled up significantly.

Dynamically, the same serious-race-car-quick steering, dual-function throttle, and rifle-bolt shifter. Hard-edged, uncompromising; plain and simply, a toy.

If you're still having trouble swallowing my gas engine/hybrid plan - think about it this way - what better way to transport my all-electric bikes on nice days!?  50+mpg, still out in the air getting a bit of the motorcycle feel, and the ability to turn off the dino-juice and glide silently around town on electric. Better than a big crew-cab dually sucking down diesel, and blowing crud!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Because I like to paint pictures of where I am going, and because this was irresistible, I started sketching, and then went into some preliminary CAD work. The initial chicken scratch sketch in the center was done without any reference to scale, using a generic wheelbase layout. Then, I set up the chassis to the correct dimensions, and strung a few curves over and around it to see how the basic idea of the sketch would play out. The side panels are long ducts, to serve as air intakes for the radiator. The lines on the back represent the air box and snorkel, an artistic swipe at the supercars and race cars with the roof scoops. The fairing lends visual balance, and should direct clean airflow toward the snorkel.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The body has been sold, just waiting for the cash and pickup, and trying - in the meantime - to convince myself to keep going with the chassis. To that end, I Photoshopped the front wheel off an Ariel Atom and tried to imagine carving my way up there in a crazy little trike...


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The body left with its new owner yesterday. I offered the chassis but he didn't bite. The weight of that body being lifted off my shoulders felt so good that I started working on an eBay ad for the rest of the project this morning to consider selling it, accidentally clicked "Submit" instead of "Preview", took it as a _sign (sarcasm), _decided to stick with it and see where it goes - so Schism is officially up for grabs - cheap! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291040017815?item=291040017815&viewitem=&vxp=mtr


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The end.  What took us a summer to do, took me an hour undo...









It didn't sell, and I need to make fast decisions and get the next phase of my business and life underway, so Schism had to go. Curt gets the Honda engine, a few pieces of the chassis will go on eBay individually, and I plan to donate the frame to the community workshop's metal/welding area for materials, projects, training, whatever - up for grabs. A fitting end would be if someone sees something in it and builds something creative from pieces of it.

I think I am going to resume my original quest with the Inhaler. The cage was carefully dismantled and will likely be resurrected on that project.

So, in the end, at least Schism was a gracious organ donor - it will live on in the dreams of others...


----------



## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

My condolences, but for the best no doubt!


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

tylerwatts said:


> My condolences, but for the best no doubt!


Thanks and yup! Onward and upward - take the knowledge gained and do something outstanding...


----------



## GizmoEV (Nov 28, 2009)

It has been fun watching. Thank you for showing/telling us about this.


----------



## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

GizmoEV said:


> It has been fun watching. Thank you for showing/telling us about this.


Thanks Gizmo.  Schism was originally conceived as a personal replacement for the Inhaler, when it took off on a different mission. That project is now back in my possession, so the madness continues there...


----------

