# What's next in removing ICE engine from S10?



## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Next step: Get an S10 repair manual from your local auto parts place or the library. Haynes, Clymer, or Chilton's... they'll all give you detailed instructions for removal or replacement of any part of your car along with torque specifications for important fasteners. 

The manual will (should) also have a complete wiring diagram for the OEM wiring, which is going to help you a lot when you're putting stuff back together.

Trying to do major car work without a shop manual is not a good idea, especially if you don't have very much experience with the mechanics side of cars.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I picked up the manual at the library today, hopefully it will identify a few parts that I'm not sure about.

Here is a picture of where things stand currently. 

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4191/icetoevconversionday2.jpg

(The observant eye might notice the exhaust headers are still there. They will be gone tomorrow once I can make some loud noise to either drill out some bolts in the exhaust pipe to catalytic converter, or I use a hacksaw to cut the pipe. I'm not sure if it would ever be used again anyway.)









I will also be removing the fuel filter, damaged fuel tank , and fuel lines this week.

Should I look into borrowing a engine hoist from work, or is it better to just disassemble it piece by piece?

Another question is what do I do about the A/C? I kind of doubt that there is any juice left in it, but I am not sure of the correct procedure to check.

What do I do about un-needed wires? I removed the oxygen sensor and another one by the catalytic converter.

Any other tips? Thanks


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

At the end of day 3 (I do work all day and then do this at night), I have been able to remove the muffler and catalytic converter. The header still is stuck in the engine bay until tomorrow... I will have to hacksaw some more parts. 

And it will probably be Friday before I can get the fuel system out. But, I like where I will be by this weekend.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

On working day 4, I was able to remove the header and the rest of the exhaust pipe tonight. I wasn't giving up until it was out. 

Friday night will be the fuel system and components.

Is there any reason to keep the engine together, or is it easier to remove pieces? Is it possible to sell an engine with 175,000 miles on it?


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

On working day 5, I removed the fuel filter, drained the little gas still in the line, and then removed the fuel tank.

I had to hacksaw the fuel line to get the fuel filter off because it was so rusted on. I'm not sure if it had ever been changed...

I need to remove some fuel lines still. And then I have to start looking into disassembling the ICE engine. I think that will be the best thing to do. It might not be the easiest, but it is straight forward.


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Caps18 said:


> On working day 5, I removed the fuel filter, drained the little gas still in the line, and then removed the fuel tank.
> 
> I had to hacksaw the fuel line to get the fuel filter off because it was so rusted on. I'm not sure if it had ever been changed...
> 
> I need to remove some fuel lines still. And then I have to start looking into disassembling the ICE engine. I think that will be the best thing to do. It might not be the easiest, but it is straight forward.


It's best to remove the engine in one piece. You will need a hoist in any case in order to get the engine block out of the truck - there is no benefit to taking the engine apart. When it's apart, it takes up a lot more space and if you have any plans for selling the engine then having it together is a benefit - the buyer will know that all the parts are there and that no critical surfaces were damaged from being improperly disassembled or stored.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Is it possible to raise the truck up high enough and bring the block out of the bottom?

I can see why it would be faster and better to remove the whole engine though.

As for selling it, I would think the individual pieces would have move value than the whole thing. If I had a cracked block and wanted to swap out a engine, it would be better having it all together I guess. But, I don't know how good this engine is anymore, and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable selling it to know that it will even turn over after 4 years of sitting.

I can borrow an engine hoist without a problem though. I will have to come at it from the side of the truck to remove it I guess.


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## jeremyjs (Sep 22, 2010)

yes borrow an engine hoist. Can you take the whole front off of the truck? Never taken an s10 apart, but often times you can disassemble the front of a vehicle to the point where the engine bay is wide open to the front, with nothing to get in the way of removing the engine and other parts. It should also make it really easy to lay out and install stuff later.






Caps18 said:


> Is it possible to raise the truck up high enough and bring the block out of the bottom?
> 
> I can see why it would be faster and better to remove the whole engine though.
> 
> ...


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Caps18 said:


> Is it possible to raise the truck up high enough and bring the block out of the bottom?


Usually that depends on if the front crossmember (K-member) is removable by unbolting. But then you'll likely have to remove the front suspension which can be a major exercise.


Caps18 said:


> I can see why it would be faster and better to remove the whole engine though.
> 
> As for selling it, I would think the individual pieces would have move value than the whole thing. If I had a cracked block and wanted to swap out a engine, it would be better having it all together I guess. But, I don't know how good this engine is anymore, and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable selling it to know that it will even turn over after 4 years of sitting.


The value equation goes both ways. It's more convenient to you to have the old engine gone all at once, instead of having to inventory the various pieces and store them so that they don't get wrecked from sitting out in the open.
Also, if you try to sell the engine (or its parts) for top dollar, then it may take a long time to sell, which means you don't get your money for a long time. If you advertise the pieces and you sell the head but not the block, you will have less money in your pocket than if you sold the whole thing at a discount.
If you're worried about it turning over then remove the plugs, and then try to turn it over by hand (i.e. with a 18 or 24" breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt). If it turns then it turns. Make sure you put the plugs back in to keep junk out of the cylinders, and tape off the intake opening and the exhaust ports. If you show some care in storing the engine, you'll have an easier time selling it.


Caps18 said:


> I can borrow an engine hoist without a problem though. I will have to come at it from the side of the truck to remove it I guess.


 Engine hoists are generally used from the front of the driveline... if you go sideways then you run the risk of tipping the thing when you try to separate the engine and transmission. If you can borrow a hoist from your work, then borrow a co-worker that's used one before while you're at it. Probably cost you a case of beer, but save yourself hours in the process.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Does anybody know what this black plastic box is near the rear or the driver's side of an S-10? It is behind the fuel tank. I looked through the manual, but haven't found it yet.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> Does anybody know what this black plastic box is near the rear or the driver's side of an S-10? It is behind the fuel tank. I looked through the manual, but haven't found it yet.


 
Has to do with fuel tank system.. Get rid of it TRASH

Whats next, tilt bed, battery boxes, wash and a little paint.. enough for now

Tilt bed ideas
IvansGarage Electric sonoma ie-s10
http://ivanbennett.com/


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I won't be needing this anymore. I would also like to have some words with auto engineers who have never had to remove parts from 16 year old trucks before.

It wasn't 'easy' but I didn't spill any gas, so that was good.

My plan is to get it to the stage where I can grind down and paint the frame over Memorial Day weekend.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

It would of been a lot easyer if you remove the bed, got to come off to build batt. boxes any way.. remove bed-unplug tail lights and remove 8
bolts...


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Now you tell me. 

But, I am a one man team, and I would like to buy a fiberglass bed, but they only make them for the earlier generation of S10 for some reason. 

I got around to removing all of the parts from under the truck that I had taken off, and cleaned things up a little bit.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Any advice about what to do with the Air Conditioning stuff? I've read the options in the AC thread here, and part of me wants to keep this simple, while the other part wonders if I ever move to AZ again, what would I do.

I would expect that the current AC system is empty, and I don't need AC since I haven't used it in years.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I made some progress this weekend (I need a whole week off  )

But, I am wondering what you do with the throttle cable and the power steering reservoir that is attached to the engine?

I found out what the black box is in the previous photo, it is a charcoal canister to capture fuel vapors. There wasn't a picture in the manual for some reason. But, it has been removed.

I also started removing some cables and tubes going to the motor. Things are going pretty good, but I won't be able to work on it much in the next three weeks...


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I have another weekend to work on this.  But, it is getting challenging.

What do I do with these wires going to the manual transmission housing? Will they have any function once it is converted to electric? Will they work for whatever purpose they have? Are they powering something or is it a sensor?









What do I do with all these wires? Do people remove the extra wires? How many will be reused in the EV? I know what some of them are, I would guess that brake light power wires are still good, headlights are still going to be used, etc. Will the trucks OEM computer still be required?









I am close to being able to remove the engine I hope. I would like to do it tomorrow if everything goes according to plan...


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Trans temp and speed sensor i think, dont get rid of them yet.
Are you going to reuse that trans? I choose to get rid of the computer
and build my own dash..


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm not sure how the speed sensor works, but I guessed that was what it was after reading this thread:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/whats-my-goofi-no-speedometer-s10-19105.html

I would still like to be able to remove the motor without taking out the transmission. I'm not sure how practical it is, or if it is impossible to get to all of the bolts... I'll find out tomorrow.

I do need to remove the power steering components from the motor, but after that, I think it is just the motor mounts and transmission bolts holding it in there. At least for a little longer. 

Do you have any pictures of your dash after it was installed? I'm interested in doing something like that, but want to keep it simple.


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

It is easyer to remove trans and engine as one unit. If you unbolt trans
from engine you have to support front of tranny.

It will be a while before i install dash in truck got to pull rest of dash
to get to wiring and heater core. Working on motor mount and coupler
this week. Will have pics by end of week on my website..


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## CrazyAl (May 9, 2011)

Ivansgarage said:


> It is easyer to remove trans and engine as one unit. If you unbolt trans
> from engine you have to support front of tranny.


If you remove the trans and engine as one unit, be careful that you don't hit the windscreen. 
The way to get it out is almost like automotive gymnastics or like a car coming out of a parallel car spot with parked cars at both ends - the motor and trans assembly has to come out at an angle and the angle changes depending on how far out the engine/gearbox is out- it is hard for me to explain in words. 

If it is possible to unbolt the front member above the head lights, that makes things easier - on some cars, it is possible, on others, it is not (unless you cut it which I doubt you want to).

Also, ensure the car can be moved forward and backwards or that the engine hoist can move forward and backwards as this can be helpful when trying to extract the motor/gearbox.

Problems I have faced in the past are, [but it changes from cars to car (you may not experience these problems and I have not worked on a S10)]:


engine hoist can't lift high enough, especially as car rises when the mass of the engine/gearbox is extracted;
can't get the right angle as gearbox hits the ground;
I have found this task to be a task where you need several people to help move and guide the engine, but the engine hoist I was using was losing hydraulic pressure so it was not always getting the maximum height.

Is your engine hoist on wheels?
Is your floor smooth or rough?


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I am stuck inside of a garage. I don't really even have room to get a hoist in front of the truck. I was planning on going in from the driver's side.

I can remove the tires and lower the truck to the ground if that is needed. Or add in some extra weight that I have around. The bed of the truck has a bunch of parts that have been removed already. 

I just hope I don't get into this and wish I had decided to take apart the engine piece by piece... It still might come to that.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Ivansgarage said:


> It is easyer to remove trans and engine as one unit. If you unbolt trans
> from engine you have to support front of tranny.
> 
> It will be a while before i install dash in truck got to pull rest of dash
> ...



I thought you were done, Oops. Take your time.

Could you tell me where you got your speedometer from though? I would like to make an all digital dash...


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## Ivansgarage (Sep 3, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> I thought you were done, Oops. Take your time.
> 
> Could you tell me where you got your speedometer from though? I would like to make an all digital dash...


They even have gps speedos, i am going to run my speedo signal
from my trans throught my optishift controller (electronic trans
controller.) Do a search on the web for model and make for better pricing. got mine amazon.

http://intellitronix.com/speedometers.html


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I thought that they would have GPS speedometers. I know that they work very well from previous experience.

Do you know if the tach would work with an electric motor? I'll have to ask them if they ever thought about making a electric vehicle battery gauge...

I ended up choosing to take apart the engine piece by piece. It is going ok so far. It does take longer, but will be more manageable for me. There are just a few bolts that are too hard to get to between the engine and transmission with the whole engine in place.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Here is where I am at now. Things are going smoothly with the disassembly of the engine. I think it is going to be a little harder to remove the next few pieces, but as long as I make progress it will get done.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Here is where things stand after last night. I was able to remove the top two bolts between the block and the transmission. But I cam close to breaking my finger trying to remove another one...  I had better not meet any of these 'automotive engineers', why they would do some of the things they do is beyond me. I'm thinking it will be Thursday or Friday to do the rest. One way or another it is coming out of there.

Do you guys have any tips on removing those bolts between the transmission and the engine? Did anybody do it without removing the transmission? It really is just getting the bolt started. They come out just using your fingers once they get started.

Is there going to be a lot of oil in the manual transmission? Are you suppose to drain it? Replace it once you get the Electric motor?


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Caps18 said:


> Do you guys have any tips on removing those bolts between the transmission and the engine? Did anybody do it without removing the transmission? It really is just getting the bolt started. They come out just using your fingers once they get started.
> 
> Is there going to be a lot of oil in the manual transmission? Are you suppose to drain it? Replace it once you get the Electric motor?


Most of the time the bellhousing-to-block bolts are pretty easy to reach from underneath the vehicle, but you may need some socket extensions and/or a universal joint. Also, they're typically pretty tight (40 to 50 ft-lb) so a 1/2 inch ratchet handle or breaker bar is going to help a lot with getting them undone.
Note that when you put things back together, those bolts ought to go back to a similar torque spec. Get a torque wrench, and your shop manual will have all the torque values for all of the bolts you're going to be doing back up.

A manual transmission will typically have about two or three liters (3 to 4 US quarts) of fluid in it - your shop manual will specify the fluid type and quantity. If your truck has high mileage then it's not a bad idea to drain and refill it. If you're required to take out the transmission at some point then you have to drain it first anyway... otherwise it will pour fluid out the tailshaft housing when you disconnect the driveshaft.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

It was a messy job, but the engine is free from the transmission. Now, I have to figure out how to get it out of there... I thought it was going to be lighter. It looks like I might have to get the engine hoist after all. But, at least it will be quick to hook it up and lift it out now. I could disassemble it some more, but I don't think it will gain me anything.

I should have removed the motor mounts before trying to get to the top two engine-transmission bolts. It might have made it a little easier. Then again, the engine would have moved more on me.

And the transmission fluid didn't rush out. I was worried that the transmission was open to the engine side. I will still have to pull the transmission at some point and take it apart to inspect it. I'll probably take it to a professional. It has lots of miles on it, and probably wasn't taken care of.


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## SHtruck (Jun 24, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> I had better not meet any of these 'automotive engineers', why they would do some of the things they do is beyond me.


Two words; production line. They make rolling chassis which has engine, tranny, fuel tank etc. mounted, and then they drop the body on the frame. Good for factory as it easy and quick to build a vehicle, bad for backyard mechanic as it creates some issues as you've noticed.

I would not have bothered to take the engine to pieces inside the engine bay, as you already noticed you saved the heaviest part for last. It would have been so much easier to hoist it out in one piece as there were brackets for lifting it in place. Also selling would be easier, as the customer could have tried the engine how it works and make conclusion of what to do whit it.
But now you could get away by hoisting that block out from the side of the truck, as it's not connected to transmission and being smaller without accessories and head.

Connectors on a transmission are for speedsensor and back-up light switch. Was there a third one, too? That might be a neutral safety switch, or it could on clutch pedal, too.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Some days are good, others you just spin your wheels. I spent quite a few hours working on this today with very little to show for it. I tried to take off the timing belt cover, just to get screwed by GMs design again. I need some custom tool to remove the front mount (for the engine to rotate the belt). Then I tried to remove the oil pan. I think I was able to get all of the bolts, but it doesn't want to budge. 

And then I tried to remove the fly wheel, but there is a cover that isn't designed for my wrenches. 

The engine hoist was supposed to make short work of this.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Does anyone have any idea about how to remove the bolts in the above photo that have a star pattern on them? My socket doesn't really fit.

I was able to borrow the pully tool at AutoZone today to remove the front camshaft. We should see how it goes tomorrow.


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## SHtruck (Jun 24, 2012)

There really isn't shortcuts of removing that clutch assembly, you'll need to get the right size socket. Well, you could use the torch to cut the heads off, but that's some precision cutting because it's easy to fubar the assembly. Have you tried box end wrench? If you don't have just the right size box end, if it's slightly bigger, you could jam a flat head screwdriver between the bolt head and box end, and carefully loosen the bolts gradually because there's a pressure plate springs that will mangle the assembly if you take the bolts fully off one by one. One full turn/bolt, until spring tension is gone.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I have not tried a box end wrench. I will go get one from work tomorrow to try.

http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-12-Piec...wer-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1341212930&sr=1-7]

This is probably the tool to use.

Good thing you told me not to take out each bolt one by one. That is what I would have done.


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## SHtruck (Jun 24, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> I have not tried a box end wrench. I will go get one from work tomorrow to try.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-12-Piec...wer-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1341212930&sr=1-7]
> 
> This is probably the tool to use.


Those won't fit. You'll need a thin wall socket. And thinner the socket wall the more you want it to be a quality brand like Craftsman.



Caps18 said:


> Good thing you told me not to take out each bolt one by one. That is what I would have done.


No problem. You would've probably noticed the spring tension at least on a third bolt.


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Caps18 said:


> I have not tried a box end wrench. I will go get one from work tomorrow to try.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-12-Piec...wer-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1341212930&sr=1-7]
> 
> ...


Do you know if that engine uses metric fasteners? On Fords, between about 1980 and 2000, various engine and transmission fasteners changed from fractional-inch sizes to metric, and while you can fudge some sizes, most of the time you need the right exact size or you risk damaging the bolt or the thing it's holding in.

Regarding clutch disassembly procedure: The shop manual for your truck will tell you, step by step, how to do this, what special tools you might need, and the appropriate safety precautions. Read before wrenching! That goes for anything related to the driveline, electrical, or suspension. Five minutes with the book can save you hours of grief.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

I bought a 14mm box end wrench. Why I didn't think to try that before, I don't know...

I was only able to remove 1 of the 6 with it. I then went back to the store and bought this freeze spray for removing bolts. I was able to remove 4 more with that and a 14mm socket. I tried to find a thin wall socket at Sears, but I couldn't find anything...

Anyways, that leaves 1 more bolt to go, that is stuck in there good. I probably damaged it a little too. I tried to take the other bolts out and put them back in. Sprayed penetrating oil and this freeze spray a few times... Used vice grips and hammers. Nothing seems to want to break it free. I am waiting a little to see if a few more minutes will let it soak in, but I think I might have to drill it out just to keep things moving forward. (I'll put two other bolts back in a little while I am drilling)

What do you guys think about using after market aluminum flywheels?
http://www.coolcarpartsonline.com/c...03-2-2l-fidanza-lightweight-aluminum-flywheel
Do electric motors damage them with their torque? Do they help get better range?


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## SHtruck (Jun 24, 2012)

I've had a good succes on stubborn bolts with a hammer, bigger the better. On a small bolts you good use a ball head hammer. Hit the head of the bolt as hard as you can, multiple times. If there's room, you could place the smaller hammer on top of the bolt, and hit the small one with bigger hammer. Heavy hammer, better shock effect to loosen up the bolt.


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

SHtruck said:


> I've had a good succes on stubborn bolts with a hammer, bigger the better. On a small bolts you good use a ball head hammer. Hit the head of the bolt as hard as you can, multiple times. If there's room, you could place the smaller hammer on top of the bolt, and hit the small one with bigger hammer. Heavy hammer, better shock effect to loosen up the bolt.


Only do this if your aim with a hammer is good... otherwise you will end up wrecking the pressure plate or flywheel, or just making the bolt even harder to get out.

Hitting a hammer with a hammer is generally not recommended, because hammer heads are hard and can therefore chip or shatter when hit by another hardened object. You can try this with a large centerpunch, though.

Those bolts ought to only be torqued to about 25 foot-pounds... I know that they can be pretty hard to get out, because they seem to get frozen into the flywheel, but the basic torque is not that high. Try repeated applications of punch and hammer (if possible, direct the punch so that you might force the head in a counterclockwise direction - every bit helps), and heat, and penetrating oil, and your freeze spray. It will eventually go. But when you try turning the head, use only the right socket... vise grips will just wreck the head so that it's not possible to do anything with it anymore.

Light flywheels should be a good combination with an electric motor. You don't need the inertia to dampen out combustion pulses. But you should probably investigate using a high quality (racing) clutch to give additional clamping force.


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## EVEngineeer (Apr 11, 2012)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75703 
this link explains all the steps with converting gas vehicle to EV. If you want, you can edit it yourself.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

This is a good image for Independence Day.  

The engine has left the truck for good. 

To get the flywheel cover bolt off, I tried to spray it again today after letting it sit 24 hours, I tried using a screwdriver and hammer to try and 'twist' it by hitting the grooves. But, I had to drill it. I went down about 3/8" and sprayed the freeze stuff, hit the bolt with a hammer, then tried to put vice grips on it and hit the vice grips with a hammer. And it worked. None of the threads were damaged because I didn't break the outside of the bolt.

Then I removed the flywheel with a long arm attached to a 17mm socket wrench. You have to put a bolt through one of the holes to prevent the flywheel from turning. Also securing the engine so it doesn't move helps.

I then flipped the engine and used the AutoZone tool (27091) to remove the pulley. In hindsight I didn't really gain much from this. But it worked. 

I then had to lift the engine block out of the truck. It still weighs 150-200 lbs probably. But, it was coming out one way or another. It would have been easier having two people around.

Now, onto the next stage. Cleaning up the mess, degreasing, removing rust, and painting with POR-15. But first, a vacation!


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## TigerNut (Dec 18, 2009)

Congrats on getting it out and apart. 

For degreasing, spray-on oven cleaner works great. Just put it on, let it soak for a while, then hose it off. Use the less toxic variety - the full-bore stuff can remove paint and etch aluminum. 

Note that the stuff inside the transmission bellhousing contains clutch disc particles, which contain asbestos. Even though it's mostly greasy and therefore you shouldn't be able to inhale any dust, it's still nasty.


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