# Soliton Continuous Current -- Motor or Battery



## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

DavidDymaxion said:


> Is the Solition 1000A continuous current spec for motor Amps or battery Amps? I checked the manual and here but didn't see it. Thanks.


Either/both. On p4 of the manual - Specs - it does indicate that the 1000A rating applies over all duty cycles (i.e. - 0-100%.. ok, not 0%, obviously...). I have to do a major overhaul of the manual here real soon to cover all the stuff added to the software... maybe I should change the wording to make this clearer? It seemed pretty clear to me, but, then again, it's hard to look at this from the perspective of someone totally unfamiliar with the product.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks for a quick response.

I think it would be easier to understand, and a better marketing number, to say something like "1000A continuous motor limit" and "1000A continuous battery limit."

That's a very impressive number!


Tesseract said:


> Either/both. On p4 of the manual - Specs - it does indicate that the 1000A rating applies over all duty cycles (i.e. - 0-100%.. ok, not 0%, obviously...). I have to do a major overhaul of the manual here real soon to cover all the stuff added to the software... maybe I should change the wording to make this clearer? It seemed pretty clear to me, but, then again, it's hard to look at this from the perspective of someone totally unfamiliar with the product.


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## Soundboats (Oct 6, 2010)

Yes, there is a big difference between the two. I had a Logistems 700amp controller and that was motor amps. When the motor is at low rpms the controller was putting out 700 amps to the motor but was drawing only 200 from the batteries. So if the Soliton is rated at 1000 amps from the batteries it could be putting out 3000 amps to the motor. If that is the case you had better triple the wire size as well.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

Soundboats said:


> ... So if the Soliton is rated at 1000 amps from the batteries it could be putting out 3000 amps to the motor....


That is not the case with the Soliton1, however: it's rated for 1000A, motor or battery, period.

I have to admit that I am a bit puzzled, and distressed, that there is any misunderstanding about this. I thought we went to great pains to point out that if you keep the controller under 55C you can have 1000A all day long at any duty cycle you please. Batteries and motors both turn to slag when subjected to the merciless punishment dished out by a liquid-cooled Soliton1. That's how we roll


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

So it is 1000 motor amps, since the battery amps cannot be higher than the motor amps (it's a buck converter.) Motor current limit will be reached either before, or at the same time as, the battery current limit.


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

EVfun said:


> So it is 1000 motor amps...


Indeed... it is also 1000 battery amps. Buck converters can run at 100% duty cycle, you know.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

Tesseract said:


> Indeed... it is also 1000 battery amps. Buck converters can run at 100% duty cycle, you know.


What are the motor amps when the battery amps are 1000? It's still the motor current limit.

I will point out that 1000 amps continuous is VERY high; the continuous current limit should never be an issue. The well known Curtis 1221B-7401 controller has a continuous motor current limit of 150 amps. If you keep the motor amps over 150, whether at 50 battery amps or 150 battery amps, the controller will overheat and go into thermal limit. (I've tested this


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I'd say "slap 'em in the face" and say something like you just said, prominently on the web page and in the manual "rated for 1000A continuous for both the motor and battery circuits," especially since that is a differentiator between you and competing products.


Tesseract said:


> That is not the case with the Soliton1, however: it's rated for 1000A, motor or battery, period.
> 
> I have to admit that I am a bit puzzled, and distressed, that there is any misunderstanding about this. I thought we went to great pains to point out that if you keep the controller under 55C you can have 1000A all day long at any duty cycle you please. Batteries and motors both turn to slag when subjected to the merciless punishment dished out by a liquid-cooled Soliton1. That's how we roll


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

EVfun said:


> What are the motor amps when the battery amps are 1000? It's still the motor current limit.


Yeah, and it is still the battery current limit, too... so once again I ask: what exactly are you trying to get at here? I've already agreed with you; yet you seem to keep trying to point something out so... what is it?


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Not sure why this is so hard, lol. Tesseract has answered the question, several times very clearly IMHO.

1000A on the motor side at 100% duty is 1000A on the batteries.

Reduce the duty cycle and motor amps might stay at 1000A on the motor, but the battery current starts to decrease.

The max amps that the controller will ask from the batteries is 1000A. The max amps that will ever go to the motor is 1000A.


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## Qer (May 7, 2008)

It's not often you see so many people aggressively agree with eachother.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

What a great thread! That is why we like/use the Soliton Controllers, the continuous amount of amps being produced! 

Now the big question is with continuous amps being produced while racing will it create better drag times than "certain" controllers that may give you more than 1000 amps but only for short periods of time? 

We all know some controllers can create 2000 amps, but is this continuous? No it is not. You may "jump" to 2000 amps but will lose amps while racing. 

I would love for my friends at EVNetics to produce a controller that will creat 1500 amps continuous!


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Gentlemen,

Looking for more feedback on this subject. Is 1000amps continuous better than short boosts of 2000 amps? 

Lets compare to the Zilla which so many love. How long does the Zilla controller hold 2000amps? and when the Zilla 2K drops how low does she go?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Looking for more feedback on this subject. Is 1000amps continuous better than short boosts of 2000 amps?
> 
> Lets compare to the Zilla which so many love. How long does the Zilla controller hold 2000amps? and when the Zilla 2K drops how low does she go?


Worried about the competition?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

major said:


> Worried about the competition?


Not at all. I have read the Yahoo NEDRA board and just had a long conversation with my cousin about crapping on Zilla controllers. He is not experienced in EV's, he was just firing back towards the attack on our EV Album page. He does not speak for the ECEDRA Association.

I like Zilla controllers, but, wanted to support a local company, that is why we agreed on sponsorship with EVNetics.

We may be using a Zilla 2 K controller in our 300ZX if Soliton cannot finish the BigSol. I see Jeff has posted EVNetics has no connections to ECEDRA. This mis-information does not make me happy, we have a sponsorship deal with George from EVNetics. Now if that has been cancelled we will use "other" controllers. I will be making calls.


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## Soundboats (Oct 6, 2010)

Maybe we need to get an electrical engineer in on this discussion. 

What I have learned, whether it is correct or not, is that the amps to the motor from the controller will always be higher than or equal to the battery amps. From what I have learned, amps to the motor will never be lower than battery amps. 

For a controller to put less current to the motor than what is coming from the batteries it would have to increase the voltage above that of the battery pack since the equation has to balance
Voltage x amps in = voltage x amps out (minus of course internal losses). As far as I know, no controller out there does that. 

So it the Soliton is rated at 1000 amps max you might as well say that is max amps to motor to avoid confusion. 

For example I have an NetGain Impulse 9 in my EV. At 1000 rpm it was accepting only about 48 volts from the controller. (I had a voltmeter connected to the motor input) If my 120 volt battery pack was putting out 200 amps at max throttle the controller was putting out 800 amps which was its maximum rating. I had a Kelly 800 amp controller at that time. (not continuous). 

If there is something wrong with my calculations please chime it. None of the EV books and manuals talk about the fact that at low rpm the series wound motors do not accept full battery pack voltage. The maximum current limit of the controller then become critical when accelerating from a start. 

I started with a Curtis 400 amp controller and was very surprised that when starting from 0 mph, the battery pack current never went higher than 150 amps. The controller was putting out 400 amps, but only at 48 volts which means I had only 1/4 of the power I thought I would have.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Exception that proves the rule: The Prius controller ups the battery pack ~200V to be ~500V for the motor.

We know Zillas can handle drag racing time scales. I believe Silent Thunder ran a Zilla on the Salt Flats -- does anyone know if they hit a thermal cutback? They were running lead acid batteries, so that was likely their de facto current limiter.

I have heard of people putting ice in the coolant for their controllers -- perhaps a Zilla could keep up full current then?

FWIW a Zilla 2k and a Soliton weigh close to the same.


Soundboats said:


> ...
> What I have learned, whether it is correct or not, is that the amps to the motor from the controller will always be higher than or equal to the battery amps. From what I have learned, amps to the motor will never be lower than battery amps.
> 
> For a controller to put less current to the motor than what is coming from the batteries it would have to increase the voltage above that of the battery pack since the equation has to balance
> ...


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Looking for more feedback on this subject. Is 1000amps continuous better than short boosts of 2000 amps?


That depends... Are trying to go 300 mph on the salt flats or get down the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

How do you guys feel about Netgain's controllers?


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

EVfun said:


> That depends... Are trying to go 300 mph on the salt flats or get down the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds?


Well our 3000GT will be a top speed car (salt flats) but our 300ZX is for the 1/4 mile only.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Caution: Make sure the 3000GT (or any car) is safe for high speeds. Some sporty cars go aerodynamically unstable at high speeds. I have never heard of or seen a 3000GT on the Salt Flats, so that might be new territory for it.


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Well our 3000GT will be a top speed car (salt flats) but our 300ZX is for the 1/4 mile only.


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you for your advice it is very much appreciated. 
This is recorded info on the 3000GT:

"With 320 on tap, the VR-4 was capable of low 5 second 0-60 runs and had a top speed close to 160 mph, stone stock. With a few backyard tweaks, in particular, dialing up a few pounds more boost, it was easy to get the car to 60 in under five seconds. 

That was - and still is - blazing speed. 

(This writer ran a '96 VR-4 press car to an indicated 167 mph before backing off the gas; the car wasn't done and could have gone faster.)"
http://www.ericpetersautos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14919

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Mitsubishi-0-60-mph-Times.html
_____________________________________________________

I picked the 3000GT because of its wide wheelbase and great history of handling. They called the 3000GT the "poor mans Ferrari". It has a proven records over 150mph with ICE, I want those records with an electric motor. The Netgain 11" HV is the perect match because of its higher RPM capabilities I will get higher top speeds in my last gear.


DavidDymaxion said:


> Caution: Make sure the 3000GT (or any car) is safe for high speeds. Some sporty cars go aerodynamically unstable at high speeds. I have never heard of or seen a 3000GT on the Salt Flats, so that might be new territory for it.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Good to hear. I would still advise caution in that the VR4 was significantly heavier, and I believe had different bodywork than the 3000GT. For instance, on the Porsche, I've heard the chin spoiler and whale tail are critical for stability at high speeds. In any case, I would encourage creeping up on top speed. Be safe!


LithiumaniacsEVRacing said:


> Thank you for your advice it is very much appreciated.
> This is recorded info on the 3000GT:
> 
> "With 320 on tap, the VR-4 was capable of low 5 second 0-60 runs and had a top speed close to 160 mph, stone stock. With a few backyard tweaks, in particular, dialing up a few pounds more boost, it was easy to get the car to 60 in under five seconds.
> ...


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## LithiumaniacsEVRacing (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you for the advice! 



DavidDymaxion said:


> Good to hear. I would still advise caution in that the VR4 was significantly heavier, and I believe had different bodywork than the 3000GT. For instance, on the Porsche, I've heard the chin spoiler and whale tail are critical for stability at high speeds. In any case, I would encourage creeping up on top speed. Be safe!


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