# [EVDL] Chronic Problem



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month now,
and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing it.

When I come to a stop, I get a loud thumping noise that "seems" to
follow the rpm of the wheels.
As you break hard, the noise starts off fast, and then slows down as you
come to a complete stop.
It doesn't seem to start until you get below ~ 30mph., and is easily
heard, and seems to get a little worse the more you drive.
Don't really feel any vibration in the brake pedal, or steering wheel.

Had a friend that is a 40 year mechanic come by last week to look at it.
We spent ~ 2 hours driving, jacking up vehicle, etc., and he went away
stumped to what was causing it.
He left me with a few things to try, but none caused any difference.
While I'm waiting for him to return, I thought I'd throw it out to the
EV list and the NEDRA folks.

Things I've tried.

- Have tore the brakes apart 1/2 dozen times and everything seems to be
functioning OK.
- Took off my new wheels, and replaced with the original ones that came
with the truck.
- Checked sway bar, suspension connections for anything loose.
- Jacked up the rear, ran it, and braked hard.
- Jacked up the front, spun tires, and braked hard.

Not sure if this is suspension related, brake related, steering
related, or related to my conversion.
I'm getting to the point, that I don't want to drive it anymore, fearing
damaging something.


If anyone has any possible suggestions on what this may be, or on how to
diagnose this, I would appreciate hearing from you.



Frustrated ! ! !
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Have you checked the u-joints yet? It kind of sounds like a bad U-joint, or
maybe the center carrier bearing of the driveshaft (if you have a two piece
driveshaft).

Z

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month now,
> > and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing it.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Or maybe a bearing in one of the wheels. I've had one go south that 
sounded that way. 

Good luck!
Peter



> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > Have you checked the u-joints yet? It kind of sounds like a bad U-joint, or
> > maybe the center carrier bearing of the driveshaft (if you have a two piece
> > driveshaft).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Dennis,

Check to see what the angle of the drive line is in relation to the angle 
when the engine was in. There must be a certain angle in the drive line 
between the yokes of the transmission and differential.

Also, the transmission yoke and differential yoke should not be inline, but 
rather the center line of these units should be parallel to each unit.

As the vehicle wheels are jack up off the ground the differential will drop 
which cause a increase angle until it is stop by mounted stop. When the 
wheels are on the ground, this angle should not go less than the specific 
angle for that vehicle.

My vehicle with a 6 foot drive line is specified to not to go below a 2 
degree angle in the drive line when the vehicle is on grade.

If the transmission and differential are inline and the centerline of the 
drive line is also inline, then the needle bearings in the yokes will not 
rotated , but rather just slide and will wear flat. This will cause some 
type of noise every time the drive line changes angle while the vehicle 
rolls.

Also another thing that may cause this noise, is not having the transmission 
yoke have enough sliding back and forth in the tail shaft. Check the 
original specifications of the clearance between the back of the yoke to the 
housing of the tail shaft of the transmission.

Some vehicles may have clearance up to .75 of a inch when the vehicle wheels 
are on the ground which causes the drive line angle to be reduce, thus 
pushing the drive line into the transmission.

In some vehicles, the rear transmission mount has a slotted hole for this 
adjustment. With a original prime mover, this position is fix by the 
manufacture with the engine mounts. But if you change the prime mover which 
needs a different mounting position, make sure the transmission yoke has 
this same in and out clearances.

Another thing that I found that makes a bumping noise, is that the pilot 
shaft nose is inserted too close into the pilot shaft bushing. There should 
be at least 1/8 to 3/16 inch clearance between the pilot shaft and this 
bushing. As one accelerates and stops, the transmission pilot shaft may 
press against the pilot bushing.

Also, if the drive line angle goes below the specific angle, then it could 
cause the drive line to push into the differential, causing the pinion crush 
washers or shims to compression. Then you will get a bump every time you 
stop and accelerated cause by the drive line banging back and forth.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; 
<[email protected]>
Cc: "Voges, Brent" <[email protected]>; "Schadt,Andrew M" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:40 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Chronic Problem


> I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month now,
> and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing it.
>
> When I come to a stop, I get a loud thumping noise that "seems" to
> follow the rpm of the wheels.
> As you break hard, the noise starts off fast, and then slows down as you
> come to a complete stop.
> It doesn't seem to start until you get below ~ 30mph., and is easily
> heard, and seems to get a little worse the more you drive.
> Don't really feel any vibration in the brake pedal, or steering wheel.
>
> Had a friend that is a 40 year mechanic come by last week to look at it.
> We spent ~ 2 hours driving, jacking up vehicle, etc., and he went away
> stumped to what was causing it.
> He left me with a few things to try, but none caused any difference.
> While I'm waiting for him to return, I thought I'd throw it out to the
> EV list and the NEDRA folks.
>
> Things I've tried.
>
> - Have tore the brakes apart 1/2 dozen times and everything seems to be
> functioning OK.
> - Took off my new wheels, and replaced with the original ones that came
> with the truck.
> - Checked sway bar, suspension connections for anything loose.
> - Jacked up the rear, ran it, and braked hard.
> - Jacked up the front, spun tires, and braked hard.
>
> Not sure if this is suspension related, brake related, steering
> related, or related to my conversion.
> I'm getting to the point, that I don't want to drive it anymore, fearing
> damaging something.
>
>
> If anyone has any possible suggestions on what this may be, or on how to
> diagnose this, I would appreciate hearing from you.
>
>
>
> Frustrated ! ! !
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
>
>
>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've replaced the u-joints, and I have a 1 piece drive shaft.
Replaced the front bearings, but not the rear.
Will look at those next.


Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366


-----Original Message-----
From: Zeke Yewdall [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:28 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem

Have you checked the u-joints yet? It kind of sounds like a bad
U-joint, or maybe the center carrier bearing of the driveshaft (if you
have a two piece driveshaft).

Z

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month
> > now, and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roland;

I installed the motor with the same angle as original, but I will double
check this again.

The transmission/rear end are both in their original position, so there
should be no change to the driveshaft at the tail shaft.


I will check some of the other things you suggested.


Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366


-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:18 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; [email protected]
Cc: Voges, Brent; Schadt, Andrew M
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem


Hello Dennis,

Check to see what the angle of the drive line is in relation to the
angle when the engine was in. There must be a certain angle in the
drive line between the yokes of the transmission and differential.

Also, the transmission yoke and differential yoke should not be inline,
but rather the center line of these units should be parallel to each
unit.

As the vehicle wheels are jack up off the ground the differential will
drop which cause a increase angle until it is stop by mounted stop.
When the wheels are on the ground, this angle should not go less than
the specific angle for that vehicle.

My vehicle with a 6 foot drive line is specified to not to go below a 2
degree angle in the drive line when the vehicle is on grade.

If the transmission and differential are inline and the centerline of
the drive line is also inline, then the needle bearings in the yokes
will not rotated , but rather just slide and will wear flat. This will
cause some type of noise every time the drive line changes angle while
the vehicle rolls.

Also another thing that may cause this noise, is not having the
transmission yoke have enough sliding back and forth in the tail shaft.
Check the original specifications of the clearance between the back of
the yoke to the housing of the tail shaft of the transmission.

Some vehicles may have clearance up to .75 of a inch when the vehicle
wheels are on the ground which causes the drive line angle to be reduce,
thus pushing the drive line into the transmission.

In some vehicles, the rear transmission mount has a slotted hole for
this adjustment. With a original prime mover, this position is fix by
the manufacture with the engine mounts. But if you change the prime
mover which needs a different mounting position, make sure the
transmission yoke has this same in and out clearances.

Another thing that I found that makes a bumping noise, is that the pilot
shaft nose is inserted too close into the pilot shaft bushing. There
should be at least 1/8 to 3/16 inch clearance between the pilot shaft
and this bushing. As one accelerates and stops, the transmission pilot
shaft may press against the pilot bushing.

Also, if the drive line angle goes below the specific angle, then it
could cause the drive line to push into the differential, causing the
pinion crush washers or shims to compression. Then you will get a bump
every time you stop and accelerated cause by the drive line banging back
and forth.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[email protected]>
Cc: "Voges, Brent" <[email protected]>; "Schadt,Andrew M" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:40 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Chronic Problem


> I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month 
> now, and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing
it.
>
> When I come to a stop, I get a loud thumping noise that "seems" to 
> follow the rpm of the wheels.
> As you break hard, the noise starts off fast, and then slows down as 
> you come to a complete stop.
> It doesn't seem to start until you get below ~ 30mph., and is easily 
> heard, and seems to get a little worse the more you drive.
> Don't really feel any vibration in the brake pedal, or steering wheel.
>
> Had a friend that is a 40 year mechanic come by last week to look at
it.
> We spent ~ 2 hours driving, jacking up vehicle, etc., and he went away

> stumped to what was causing it.
> He left me with a few things to try, but none caused any difference.
> While I'm waiting for him to return, I thought I'd throw it out to the

> EV list and the NEDRA folks.
>
> Things I've tried.
>
> - Have tore the brakes apart 1/2 dozen times and everything seems to 
> be functioning OK.
> - Took off my new wheels, and replaced with the original ones that 
> came with the truck.
> - Checked sway bar, suspension connections for anything loose.
> - Jacked up the rear, ran it, and braked hard.
> - Jacked up the front, spun tires, and braked hard.
>
> Not sure if this is suspension related, brake related, steering 
> related, or related to my conversion.
> I'm getting to the point, that I don't want to drive it anymore, 
> fearing damaging something.
>
>
> If anyone has any possible suggestions on what this may be, or on how 
> to diagnose this, I would appreciate hearing from you.
>
>
>
> Frustrated ! ! !
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
>
>
>
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> /attachment.html _______________________________________________
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> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
> 



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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> I've replaced the u-joints, and I have a 1 piece drive shaft.
> Replaced the front bearings, but not the rear.
> Will look at those next.
> 
The driveline with a simple U-joint, changes effective length during
rotation.
By any chance do you have no play in the slip-stub at the back of the
tranny? It will bottom out with a thump about every 4 tire revolutions.
At higher speeds the ride height and angle or just the freq may change
enough to go unnoticed.

>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zeke Yewdall [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:28 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
>
> Have you checked the u-joints yet? It kind of sounds like a bad
> U-joint, or maybe the center carrier bearing of the driveshaft (if you
> have a two piece driveshaft).
>
> Z
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> > I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > I've replaced the u-joints, and I have a 1 piece drive shaft.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:02:25 -0700
> 
> 
> >
> > I've replaced the u-joints, and I have a 1 piece drive shaft.
> > Replaced the front bearings, but not the rear.
> > Will look at those next.
> >
> The driveline with a simple U-joint, changes effective length during
> rotation.
> By any chance do you have no play in the slip-stub at the back of the
> tranny? It will bottom out with a thump about every 4 tire revolutions.
> At higher speeds the ride height and angle or just the freq may change
> enough to go unnoticed.
> 
> >
> > Thanks;
> > Dennis
> > Elsberry, MO
> > http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Zeke Yewdall [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 
> > September 21, 2009 8:28 AM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
> >
> > Have you checked the u-joints yet? It kind of sounds like a bad
> > U-joint, or maybe the center carrier bearing of the driveshaft (if you
> > have a two piece driveshaft).
> >
> > Z
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Pestka, Dennis J <


> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> > I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Anti-lock brakes on a '65 Datsun pickup... I doubt it. I thought it
also sounded like an antilock issue, but again, I doubt the 65 Datsun
had antilock's.



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jeff;

I'm assuming that the travel on the drive shaft and slip yoke should be
OK.
The transmission is mounted in it's original position, and the drive
shaft has not beel altered.
I think I have found my problem, but won't know for sure until after
this weekend.
Will report back next week on my findings.


Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366




-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem

>
> I've replaced the u-joints, and I have a 1 piece drive shaft.
> Replaced the front bearings, but not the rear.
> Will look at those next.
> 
The driveline with a simple U-joint, changes effective length during
rotation.
By any chance do you have no play in the slip-stub at the back of the
tranny? It will bottom out with a thump about every 4 tire revolutions.
At higher speeds the ride height and angle or just the freq may change
enough to go unnoticed.

>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zeke Yewdall [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:28 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
>
> Have you checked the u-joints yet? It kind of sounds like a bad 
> U-joint, or maybe the center carrier bearing of the driveshaft (if you

> have a two piece driveshaft).
>
> Z
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Pestka, Dennis J < 


> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> > I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
>


> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

No anti-lock brakes, but found a leaking rear wheel cylinder, and a chewed =
up brake shoe.
Never suspected the rear, since it sounded like it was coming from the fron=
t.

Not claiming victory yet.
Will verify this weekend, after changing the wheel cylinder and the shoes.



Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366
=


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Humphrey [mailto:[email protected]] =

Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:43 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem

Anti-lock brakes on a '65 Datsun pickup... I doubt it. I thought it also so=
unded like an antilock issue, but again, I doubt the 65 Datsun had antilock=
's.



> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dennis;

I went through the greasing process on all the spots recommended in the
manual.
Raised spot on the backing plate, adjuster, adjuster slots for the
shoes, wheel cylinder slots for the shoes

One thing strange about these brakes is they have a single direction
piston on the front wheel cylinders. 
It pushes the top of the front shoe forward, which causes the adjuster
at the bottom to slide back in a slot that engages the back shoe.
There is also no clamping stud/spring assembly like you normally see.
The shoes just ride against the raised portion of the backing plate.

To make this even stranger, the rears have bi directional wheel
cylinders, and are clamped with a spring assembly against the backing
plate like normal older style drum brakes.

I know all of this is stock, because I have a copy of the original
manual which matches exactly to what I have.


Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366



-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Miles [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:57 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Jeff Shanab
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This fits with what I remember of those brakes. Nasty things to adjust 
if you weren't careful. It really reminds me why I like my disk brakes 
so much better. I had a 73 Datsun pickup for several years - those 
brakes would fade very quickly and would completely disappear when they 
went through puddles.

Obligatory EV note: got my AC wires all connected, and all of my 12v 
wires connected, just anxiously awaiting delivery of my SE60 batteries 
and BMS. 

Cheers,
Peter



> Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> > Dennis;
> >
> > I went through the greasing process on all the spots recommended in the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Dennis,

The other day I was reading the Volt Vette website and
in his chapter about the shrinking driveshaft he also
mentioned some noise above about 35 MPH while his
driveshaft was too short...
http://northstar.sierraclub.org/campaigns/air/voltVette/chap32.html
or
http://www.mneaa.com/volt-vette.htm
(See Chapter 32)

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless
Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Pestka, Dennis J
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; [email protected]
Cc: Voges, Brent; Schadt,Andrew M
Subject: [EVDL] Chronic Problem

I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month now,
and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing it.

When I come to a stop, I get a loud thumping noise that "seems" to
follow the rpm of the wheels.
As you break hard, the noise starts off fast, and then slows down as you
come to a complete stop.
It doesn't seem to start until you get below ~ 30mph., and is easily
heard, and seems to get a little worse the more you drive.
Don't really feel any vibration in the brake pedal, or steering wheel.

Had a friend that is a 40 year mechanic come by last week to look at it.
We spent ~ 2 hours driving, jacking up vehicle, etc., and he went away
stumped to what was causing it.
He left me with a few things to try, but none caused any difference.
While I'm waiting for him to return, I thought I'd throw it out to the
EV list and the NEDRA folks.

Things I've tried.

- Have tore the brakes apart 1/2 dozen times and everything seems to be
functioning OK.
- Took off my new wheels, and replaced with the original ones that came
with the truck.
- Checked sway bar, suspension connections for anything loose.
- Jacked up the rear, ran it, and braked hard.
- Jacked up the front, spun tires, and braked hard.

Not sure if this is suspension related, brake related, steering
related, or related to my conversion.
I'm getting to the point, that I don't want to drive it anymore, fearing
damaging something.


If anyone has any possible suggestions on what this may be, or on how to
diagnose this, I would appreciate hearing from you.



Frustrated ! ! !
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The Corvette differential is bolted in a fix position while the independent 
axles swing up and down, so this not present a problem with a differential 
and axle that swings up and down which pulls the drive line yoke out some of 
the tail shaft on a transmission or a Transwarp motor.

Make sure you measure length for the drive line while the differential and 
axles are all the way up against the stop bumpers. Look in a shop manual to 
see what the yoke clearance should be between the yoke and tail shaft.

On any of my GM units, this clearance is about 3/4 of a inch.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Voges, Brent" <[email protected]>; "Schadt,Andrew M" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem


> Dennis,
>
> The other day I was reading the Volt Vette website and
> in his chapter about the shrinking driveshaft he also
> mentioned some noise above about 35 MPH while his
> driveshaft was too short...
> http://northstar.sierraclub.org/campaigns/air/voltVette/chap32.html
> or
> http://www.mneaa.com/volt-vette.htm
> (See Chapter 32)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless
> Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Pestka, Dennis J
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:10 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; [email protected]
> Cc: Voges, Brent; Schadt,Andrew M
> Subject: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
>
> I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month now,
> and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing it.
>
> When I come to a stop, I get a loud thumping noise that "seems" to
> follow the rpm of the wheels.
> As you break hard, the noise starts off fast, and then slows down as you
> come to a complete stop.
> It doesn't seem to start until you get below ~ 30mph., and is easily
> heard, and seems to get a little worse the more you drive.
> Don't really feel any vibration in the brake pedal, or steering wheel.
>
> Had a friend that is a 40 year mechanic come by last week to look at it.
> We spent ~ 2 hours driving, jacking up vehicle, etc., and he went away
> stumped to what was causing it.
> He left me with a few things to try, but none caused any difference.
> While I'm waiting for him to return, I thought I'd throw it out to the
> EV list and the NEDRA folks.
>
> Things I've tried.
>
> - Have tore the brakes apart 1/2 dozen times and everything seems to be
> functioning OK.
> - Took off my new wheels, and replaced with the original ones that came
> with the truck.
> - Checked sway bar, suspension connections for anything loose.
> - Jacked up the rear, ran it, and braked hard.
> - Jacked up the front, spun tires, and braked hard.
>
> Not sure if this is suspension related, brake related, steering
> related, or related to my conversion.
> I'm getting to the point, that I don't want to drive it anymore, fearing
> damaging something.
>
>
> If anyone has any possible suggestions on what this may be, or on how to
> diagnose this, I would appreciate hearing from you.
>
>
>
> Frustrated ! ! !
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
>
>
>
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> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
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> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Have you had anyone driving next to you during this event? Maybe they 
could help pinpoint the noise and maybe even see something you can't. 
Can't hurt to give it a try.

Pete 





> Dennis J wrote:
> 
> > Jack;
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I had a similar problem on a old truck some years ago, and it finally turned
out to be a really small imperfection in a front wheel bearing race. 

High speed, no noise. 

Low speed, no noise. 

Low speed & braking, thumping in step with the wheel RPM's. 

I suppose it only manifested when the load increased under braking.

Best

dg

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Chronic-Problem-tp25543370p25808294.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This works even if it looks silly, maybe there is a modern variant with
microphones and signal strength meters.

Long,Long ago I diagnosed a car noise problem with a suggestion from my
grandfather. 
I got 4 equal lengths of vacuum line and tie wrapped each near a corner
of the car . The second time I did this I stretched a ballon over the
end to kill wind noise.
I brought the lines thru the windows and taped them to the car.

Then with the help of an assistant, we took a drive and I stuck each
hose in my ear two at a time and triangulated the sound.
Then moved all of them to the one corner making the noise and repeat.


For me it was bad rear axle bearings in which heavy braking unloaded the
backend making no noise, moderate braking lifted the wheel enough to
center the wheel and make a scraping noise and lite braking made a
pulsing pedal, lifting rear wheel and a thump, thump, thump as gasp, the
few bearings remaining would get under the axel and lift it then the
axle would drop etc.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

dg;

That was one of the first things I suspected.
Took me about a month, but I finally found new bearings with race.
Replaced both sides and "No Difference".


Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366




-----Original Message-----
From: Conelrad [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem



I had a similar problem on a old truck some years ago, and it finally
turned out to be a really small imperfection in a front wheel bearing
race. 

High speed, no noise. 

Low speed, no noise. 

Low speed & braking, thumping in step with the wheel RPM's. 

I suppose it only manifested when the load increased under braking.

Best

dg

--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Chronic-Problem-tp25543370p25808294.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok, lets say you check all the bearings, U-joint bearings, the drive line 
yoke to transmission clearance, the drive line angle, the transmission pilot 
shaft bearing clearance, then it could be the crush washer in the 
differential that got crush too much.

I use to drag race and we had to replace this crush washer after each event. 
Every time I would brake or accelerated the drive line would slide back and 
forth making this sound.

In your search engine type in: Differential Crush Washer and you will see 
many sites on this subject.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem


> dg;
>
> That was one of the first things I suspected.
> Took me about a month, but I finally found new bearings with race.
> Replaced both sides and "No Difference".
>
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conelrad [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:18 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
>
>
>
> I had a similar problem on a old truck some years ago, and it finally
> turned out to be a really small imperfection in a front wheel bearing
> race.
>
> High speed, no noise.
>
> Low speed, no noise.
>
> Low speed & braking, thumping in step with the wheel RPM's.
>
> I suppose it only manifested when the load increased under braking.
>
> Best
>
> dg
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Chronic-Problem-tp25543370p25808294.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Roland;
I'll look into that.

Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366


-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem

Ok, lets say you check all the bearings, U-joint bearings, the drive
line yoke to transmission clearance, the drive line angle, the
transmission pilot shaft bearing clearance, then it could be the crush
washer in the differential that got crush too much.

I use to drag race and we had to replace this crush washer after each
event. 
Every time I would brake or accelerated the drive line would slide back
and forth making this sound.

In your search engine type in: Differential Crush Washer and you will
see many sites on this subject.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem


> dg;
>
> That was one of the first things I suspected.
> Took me about a month, but I finally found new bearings with race.
> Replaced both sides and "No Difference".
>
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conelrad [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:18 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chronic Problem
>
>
>
> I had a similar problem on a old truck some years ago, and it finally
> turned out to be a really small imperfection in a front wheel bearing
> race.
>
> High speed, no noise.
>
> Low speed, no noise.
>
> Low speed & braking, thumping in step with the wheel RPM's.
>
> I suppose it only manifested when the load increased under braking.
>
> Best
>
> dg
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Chronic-Problem-tp25543370p25808294.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

First, thanks to everyone for all the suggestions on my chronic problem.


With the help of a mechanic friend, we solved it over the weekend.

We hooked up a multi channel noise detection device from his dealership,
that lets you install up to 7 remote sensors at various points on the
vehicle.
After numerous trips, and moving the devices, we isolated the noise to
the front passenger wheel.
Pulled the drums and after inspection by my friend, he suggested
swapping the drums from left to right.

Went out for another drive, and the Noise disappeared. " HORRAY ! ! !"

Reminder, that these brake shoes have no spring retainer in the middle
of the shoe that holds it to the baking plate like you normally see.
It also has a one directional wheel cylinder with movement towards the
front of the truck. 

What he diagnosed, was that the shoe was following the grooves cut in
the brake drum like a record.
It would move out slightly, and then snap back in place.


The EV grin is back;

Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366









> I have been fighting a problem with my 65 Datsun pickup for ~ month
> now, and I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion on what is causing
> it.
>
> When I come to a stop, I get a loud thumping noise that "seems" to
> follow the rpm of the wheels.
> As you break hard, the noise starts off fast, and then slows down as
> you come to a complete stop.
> It doesn't seem to start until you get below ~ 30mph., and is easily
> heard, and seems to get a little worse the more you drive.
> Don't really feel any vibration in the brake pedal, or steering wheel.
>
> Had a friend that is a 40 year mechanic come by last week to look at
> it.
> We spent ~ 2 hours driving, jacking up vehicle, etc., and he went away
> stumped to what was causing it.
> He left me with a few things to try, but none caused any difference.
> While I'm waiting for him to return, I thought I'd throw it out to the
> EV list and the NEDRA folks.
>
> Things I've tried.
>
> - Have tore the brakes apart 1/2 dozen times and everything seems to
> be functioning OK.
> - Took off my new wheels, and replaced with the original ones that
> came with the truck.
> - Checked sway bar, suspension connections for anything loose.
> - Jacked up the rear, ran it, and braked hard.
> - Jacked up the front, spun tires, and braked hard.
>
> Not sure if this is suspension related, brake related, steering
> related, or related to my conversion.
> I'm getting to the point, that I don't want to drive it anymore,
> fearing damaging something.
>
>
> If anyone has any possible suggestions on what this may be, or on how
> to diagnose this, I would appreciate hearing from you.
>
>
>
> Frustrated ! ! !
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
>
>
>
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed...
> URL:
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> ttachment.html
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> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
>
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>
>



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