# [EVDL] What plug do you use?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> > I'm trying to figure out what plug I should use for my charger. What does everyone else use? Should I use a twist lock? (I'm reluctant to use a twist lock, as I want it to unplug easily if someone drives away with the car). I'll be using a PFC30 and charging with at most 30 amps and 220 volts. I'll have an adapter for 110 volt charging.
> >
> I'd use the straight 4-pin 30/50 amp combo plug from Home Depot[1].
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've been using NEMA L6-30 (3 prong twist lock) connectors. Rated 
250V/30A, have sat out in the rain, etc, etc.

They WILL come apart if you drive off while plugged in. Has only happened 
2 or 3 times, but with no damage to anything (knock on wood). I sometimes 
wish I used the 4 prong version so I could run cheap 120VAC accessories 
(fans, battery chargers) instead of using a universal input power supply 
and 12VDC parts.

The only other downside is cost. I found Hubbell inlets for $5 on eBay, 
but standard plugs run ~$20 and the sockets can be $40 or more!

If you plan on opportunity charging, a standard 120V plug is a must. Or at 
least an adapter. Then use a Kill-A-Watt or other meter to mark where your 
PFC current knob needs to be for a 12-15A draw so you don't pop your 
friend's circuit breaker when plugged into 120V.

-Adrian



> corbin dunn wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I STRONGLY believe that the cord connection to the car should pull out if
you happened to drive away. This doesn't guarantee that there won't be
damage because you can't guarantee that the cord is at the right angle, but
it helps.

Also, you *should* also design you car so that ti cannot start with the cord
attached. This can be accomplished with microswitches (as already
mentioned) or something as simple as a relay. All new production electric
vehicles will do this.

I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and probably won't
pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like when I get one, and see what
happens the first time I try to drive away with it connected...

-Tyler




> Adrian DeLeon <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I've been using NEMA L6-30 (3 prong twist lock) connectors. Rated
> > 250V/30A, have sat out in the rain, etc, etc.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Tyler Marshall


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and probably wo=
> n't
> > pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like when I get one, and see =
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I definitely second Mark's point. DO NOT DRIVE AWAY WITH THE J1772
connector plugged in. If you are forgetful and feel you are going to
potentially drive off with the plug still in the inlet, wire a relay switch
to cut off the controller if the Plug is in. Then you will never have
traction power if the plug is still in.

A cheap way is to use a long cord and drape it over the drivers side window
so that you never can even get in the car if the plug is still in the car.

I just wired up my J1772 Plug and Inlet (minus electronic Pilot signal) into
my EV and a GFCI Circuit Box (for on and off) and the system works great.
Was dumping in 24amps into my pack today and loving the fast charging I was
getting!!! =


If you need the inlet and plug visit
shop.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com fantastic plug!!!I will try and
upload pictures of my setup to the website soon so that I can reference it
for you.

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com =

973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS



=


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mark Farver
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:30 PM
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Tyler Marshall


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and probably
> won't
> > pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like when I get one, and see
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Mark Farver wrote:
> > It is almost impossible to design an affordable removable
> > connector that can open safely (ground last) with angular forces on it
> > without damage.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Tyler Marshall wrote:
> 
> > I STRONGLY believe that the cord connection to the car should
> > pull out if you happened to drive away.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Roger,

Yeah, it doesn't matter where it breaks free. If it becomes a problem with
the J1772, I imagine that they will eventually add an inline breakaway.

I was imagining an NEMA 14-50 on the 240V outlet in the garage. There is
little chance that that would break away without damage, but I've had the
standard 5-15 break away many times from a block heater.

Maybe I'm just trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist...

-Tyler




> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Most cords have two ends; why is it so important that the car end pull
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That will then pull it free from the car even if it means breaking something.




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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have often wondered if the 1955/56 Cadillac wasn't setting a good
example by putting the fuel filler in the rear under a tail light (56 Chevy
did it too). it was high and easy to reach on that tall tail fin, and
assessable from the back or side for convenience. Quite a bit better than
the 1960's GM products that put the fuel filler behind the license plate
where gas would splash out if you didn't affix the cap properly.[thru the
'60 s] still, why not put your charging inlet behind the license plate in
rear or front? just mount plate with 2 spring equipped screen door hinges..
If you are as forgetfull as I am or your charging on a sloping driveway
put a 2x4 a foot long in front of the wheel and if is your driveway drive
two anchors thru it into the pavement so it stays there and you unplug, get
in and just drive over it. so it is always there for you.
Another play one of my friends used was to buy a Mylar aluminized
balloon for every Holiday. then he tied the string to his plug at the car
end in his garage, jump in the car and check the mirror before driving off
and there is the balloon waving "Hi, Dummy, I'm still here !" as a reminder
he could see.
Personally, I do not like the J1772 latch, so I carry some cheep cable
ties in my console and put one on the latch button so it is not latched in
my use. the Pilot pin is shortest so the 240vac is cut before the connection
breaks completely.
"There are Always Alternatives"...
Regards,
Dennis Miles
============================================================


> David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from the wall and
> > drags soon the car will run over the cord. That will then pull it free from
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

To Roger Stockton,
The J1772 cable has a connector at the car; the other end is fastened
securely and wired directly into to the $3,000 "Charging Outlet" box and if
you pull that box end loose they will be very upset with you.
Regards,
Dennis Miles
========================================================



> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Tyler Marshall wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Personally, I do not like the J1772 latch, so I carry some cheep =
> cable
> > ties in my console and put one on the latch button so it is not latched in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This is exactly what I did back in 1976, was to put the main AC plug and 
connector behind the hinge license plate holder that is mounted on the rear. 
Still using it today and pull out the plug about four times with no damage 
to the plug.

The plug I am using is a large 50 amp Danial Woodhead 4 pole, 4 wire twist 
lock. The connector (not a receptacle) is install in a cast aluminum 
housing made by the Power Anderson Company. You can make one by take a 
piece of 6 inch long by 4 inch ID conduit and weld a closer plate on one end 
with a 1.25 hole in it. The other end has a square 5.5 inch plate with a 
4.5 inch hole which is welded to the 4 inch conduit.

This square plate has four mounting holes for bolting on a hinge aluminum 2 
gang plate made by the Bell Company. These weather tight plates have a 
gasket that is design enclose a 2-gang device that ranges from 30 to 50 amp.

The Danial Woodhead connector and plug is normally a inline device for 
connecting two power cords together that can lay directly on wet ground. 
The connector is fasten in side the aluminum housing by inserter the 
threaded part of the cable gland connector, through the 1-1/4 hole and then 
tighten up the large cable nut.

This type of connector or similar type have large set screw box connectors 
where the cable wires insert straight in. The maximum torque on the set 
screws are about 100 inch lbs. On the plug side there is also a cable gland 
nut that has a taper rubber insert that I grease up with a GE electrical 
compound that you can get a large tube from any motor shop. Hand tighten 
this cable nut only.

When the connector and plug is connected together, the connector has a 
overlapping nylon cover that goes over the plug which I also grease up with 
the GE compound.

Now to test out the pull out without disconnecting the plug. When the plug 
is plug in the cord is laying just over the top of the bumper and wraps down 
and than forward for 20 feet to a power receptacle. This length leaves 
enough slack, so when I move the EV in reverse, the bumper pulls out the 
cable out of the cable grand nut and the box lug connectors. When this 
happens the circuit breaker turns off, so there is no live wires at the end 
of the cord.

I have not pull the cable out since 2002, because I place the bright yellow 
plug on a holder on the right side of the passenger side of the EV. I 
always when backing out of the garage, the plug is exactly in the line of 
sight of the side mirrors.

Also what helps, is a 120 V neon pilot light on the dash of the EV that 
comes on when the plug is in. My plug being a 4 wire which has a neutral, 
ground, and two feeder lines also provides 120 volts circuits for 
pre-heating the heaters and also run blower fans and pumps which I can run 
using a transfer switch to test out these circuits which also have these 120 
V indicator lights.

Roland



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?


I have often wondered if the 1955/56 Cadillac wasn't setting a good 
example by putting the fuel filler in the rear under a tail light (56 Chevy 
did it too). it was high and easy to reach on that tall tail fin, and 
assessable from the back or side for convenience. Quite a bit better than 
the 1960's GM products that put the fuel filler behind the license plate 
where gas would splash out if you didn't affix the cap properly.[thru the 
'60 s] still, why not put your charging inlet behind the license plate in 
rear or front? just mount plate with 2 spring equipped screen door hinges..
If you are as forgetfull as I am or your charging on a sloping driveway 
put a 2x4 a foot long in front of the wheel and if is your driveway drive 
two anchors thru it into the pavement so it stays there and you unplug, get 
in and just drive over it. so it is always there for you.
Another play one of my friends used was to buy a Mylar aluminized 
balloon for every Holiday. then he tied the string to his plug at the car 
end in his garage, jump in the car and check the mirror before driving off 
and there is the balloon waving "Hi, Dummy, I'm still here !" as a reminder 
he could see.
Personally, I do not like the J1772 latch, so I carry some cheep cable 
ties in my console and put one on the latch button so it is not latched in 
my use. the Pilot pin is shortest so the 240vac is cut before the connection 
breaks completely.
"There are Always Alternatives"...
Regards,
Dennis Miles

============================================================

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:20 AM, David Dymaxion 


> <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from the wall and
> drags soon the car will run over the cord. That will then pull it free from
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
> > The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from
> > the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 10/28/2010 9:07 AM, Mark Farver wrote:
> >> That is a violation of the spec...
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

David Dymaxion,
There is a lot of tension generated if you back over a wire! I was puling
with a chain and it came undone at the load, in backing up to reconnect I
backed over the two inch logging chain and pinching it between the tire and
the pavement resulting in a link of the chain snapping and opening up.
Fortunately I had hooked it to a STRONG frame mounted hitch because I am
sure it would have bent the steel step bumper.
Regards,
Dennis Miles
=======================================================


> Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > David Dymaxion wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It's a little subtle. The middle of your wheel doesn't not move relative to the 
car, but the bottom does. The bottom of your wheel is at ground speed unless you 
are skidding. If a tire runs over the cord, that part of the cord is locked to 
the ground, while the other end of the cord is firmly attached to the moving 
vehicle. If the cord is sideways and you have enough slack, the car will roll 
off the cord. If the cord is inline with the wheel, you'll keep running over 
more and more cord until the slack is taken up and it breaks -- it's just as bad 
as if the cord had been tied to a fence. You really want the car end to unplug. 
As you say, a destructive tearing out of the wiring might leave high voltage 
conductors exposed.




________________________________
From: Roger Stockton <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 9:39:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?



> David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
> > The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from
> > the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2V2Cg==


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dennis Miles wrote:
> 
> > The J1772 cable has a connector at the car; the other
> > end is fastened securely and wired directly into to the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
> > It's a little subtle. The middle of your wheel doesn't not
> > move relative to the car, but the bottom does.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Stockton" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?




> > Tyler Marshall wrote:
> >
> >> I STRONGLY believe that the cord connection to the car should
> >> pull out if you happened to drive away.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The Nissan Leaf EVSE has a breakaway built in. It's not obvious looking at =
it.




> Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > To Roger Stockton,
> > The J1772 cable has a connector at the car; the other end is fast=
> ened
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Joe wrote:
> 
> > Because otherwise, the cord end will be ruined by draggin it
> > down the road.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

IMO, This thread is getting a bit old. I have been driving my personal EV
for over two years and a mobile home for 15 years and have yet to drive off
with either of them plugged in! Thus, I have no idea what would happen if I
did so nor do I care to "test" it to see what would happen. Maybe EVTV.me
Jack would test out different approaches.....He seems open to testing
different EV things to see if they are real or fiction.... 

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com 
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 2:46 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?



> Joe wrote:
> 
> > Because otherwise, the cord end will be ruined by draggin it
> > down the road.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Doug, it has been week and thirty (30) replies so there must be a lot of
interest in this topic.
I have also avoided driving away with out disconnecting first, But my
practice is to loop the cord thru the drivers door handle so if I don't
unplug I can not get in to drive.

Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles
==========================================
*
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Douglas A. Stansfield <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > IMO, This thread is getting a bit old. I have been driving my personal EV
> > for over two years and a mobile home for 15 years and have yet to drive off
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Dennis,

Glad you haven't experienced a SHORTened driving experience. WIRE we up to
30+ posts for what cord and plug to use? I love my J1772 and as soon as
more charging stations are up, I will have an excuse to connect up those
pilot wires..... in the mean time, I will keep charging up at 240v and
24amps and love it! I doubt I will drive out with it plugged in anyway. My
charger has a 12v relay on it that can be wired up to the main contactor to
stop it moving when it is charging. It really is "Idiot Proof"!

Happy EVing in Florida!!!! You must love the fact that it is flat!!! The
hills up in Northwestern NJ are really "range killers".

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com 
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Dennis Miles
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 4:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?

Doug, it has been week and thirty (30) replies so there must be a lot of
interest in this topic.
I have also avoided driving away with out disconnecting first, But my
practice is to loop the cord thru the drivers door handle so if I don't
unplug I can not get in to drive.

Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles
==========================================
*
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Douglas A. Stansfield <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > IMO, This thread is getting a bit old. I have been driving my personal EV
> > for over two years and a mobile home for 15 years and have yet to drive
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:
> 
> > I love my J1772 and as soon as
> > more charging stations are up, I will have an excuse to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hey Rodger,

Good point.....

I have had long driveways for years. If you want to see my
driveway....check it out in the video of the first drive in my EV!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoPyWQ81gnY 

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com 
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:19 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?



> Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:
> 
> > I love my J1772 and as soon as
> > more charging stations are up, I will have an excuse to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah, it only happened to me once, on the Datsun; I had a twistlok connector 
on it. It might have happened on the Mustang, but that one had a 
straight-bladed plug on the car end, right in the middle at the back (old 
gas filler port) so it unplugged when I moved the car out of my shop!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Stockton" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?




> > Joe wrote:
> >
> >> Because otherwise, the cord end will be ruined by draggin it
> >> down the road.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Our fire engines are plugged in to keep the batteries charged. We put
a 12" pigtail with male and female connectors on the power cord. For
an EV, be sure you set it up so that you can't have a cord plugged
into 240v with a 120 female plug on it. My extension cord has been
refitted with 240v plugs on each end. The charger uses a 240v male
plug. That way, I might have a 240v female supplied with 120v via an
adapter. The 240v plug I am using looks like the standard 120v with
one prong turned 90 degrees.



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Mark Farver wrote:
> >> It is almost impossible to design an affordable removable
> >> connector that can open safely (ground last) with angular forces on it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Storm,

That plug is called NEMA 6-20
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector
It is easily confused with the NEMA 5-20
which has the other pin turned, but is for 120V 20A,
a casual eye will miss the difference, that is why I
like that plug if you want to conceal that you have
added an outlet for 240V 20A for vehicle charging =

like for example in a rental place - nobody will
easily notice a NEMA 6-20 outlet as being different
unless they try to plug in. Then they should notice
the difference as you don't want them to pop a 120V
appliance into your 240V outlet...


Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of storm connors
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:40 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?

Our fire engines are plugged in to keep the batteries charged. We put a 12"=
pigtail with male and female connectors on the power cord. For an EV, be s=
ure you set it up so that you can't have a cord plugged into 240v with a 12=
0 female plug on it. My extension cord has been refitted with 240v plugs on=
each end. The charger uses a 240v male plug. That way, I might have a 240v=
female supplied with 120v via an adapter. The 240v plug I am using looks l=
ike the standard 120v with one prong turned 90 degrees.



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Mark Farver wrote:
> >> It is almost impossible to design an affordable removable connector =
> 
> ...


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