# [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello List,

I am trying to debug a squeak I can hear coming from my bell housing at
low revs. Some fellow EVers have suggested it might be a mis-alignment
between the electric motor and gearbox shaft. I have retained the
clutch - so the noise might be due to the clutch and pressure plates
sliding against each other as they rotate around slightly different
centres.

So I removed the adaptor plate from the motor, and placed it back
against the bell housing, secured loosely by a few bolts. Without the
weight of the motor I noticed quite a bit of slop in the fit. I can
move the RH side of the plate about 1.5mm in an up and down direction as
it rotates around the one location pin that is present in in the upper
LH side of the bell housing.

So a few questions if I may:

1/ Could this amount of slop be a problem?

2/ How close is the alignment between the shaft centres meant to be?

3/ What is the normal way to get good alignment? I have a suspicion the
answer might be "machine it right the first time" 

I am trying to work out a way to measure the difference in the centres
between the gearbox shaft and the adaptor plate/motor. It's tricky as
the gearbox shaft is recessed. I am messing with temporarily attaching
a pin to the clutch plate that sticks up through the adaptor plate
centre hole, so I can easily measure the distance between the pin and
the edge of the adaptor plate centre hole.

Attempted ASCII-art figure:


| <--- pin
------------- | --------------- <--- Adaptor plate
|
| 
-------------------------- <--- clutch plate


Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

David



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My Porsche had a fairly high pitched squeak that was a rub. My adapter was only 0.060" off. Looking through the starter hole, the clearances are amazingly close between the flywheel/pressure plate and the tranny bellhousing. That seems to be a German thing, my German cars have had minimal gaps between moving parts.


Can you safely move things while it's spinning to see if the squeak goes away?

I'll 2nd another comment, my brushes also squeaked at first, but it went away pretty quickly.



________________________________
From: David Rowe <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:06:20 AM
Subject: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment

Hello List,

I am trying to debug a squeak I can hear coming from my bell housing at
low revs. Some fellow EVers have suggested it might be a mis-alignment
between the electric motor and gearbox shaft. I have retained the
clutch - so the noise might be due to the clutch and pressure plates
sliding against each other as they rotate around slightly different
centres.

So I removed the adaptor plate from the motor, and placed it back
against the bell housing, secured loosely by a few bolts. Without the
weight of the motor I noticed quite a bit of slop in the fit. I can
move the RH side of the plate about 1.5mm in an up and down direction as
it rotates around the one location pin that is present in in the upper
LH side of the bell housing.

So a few questions if I may:

1/ Could this amount of slop be a problem?

2/ How close is the alignment between the shaft centres meant to be?

3/ What is the normal way to get good alignment? I have a suspicion the
answer might be "machine it right the first time" 

I am trying to work out a way to measure the difference in the centres
between the gearbox shaft and the adaptor plate/motor. It's tricky as
the gearbox shaft is recessed. I am messing with temporarily attaching
a pin to the clutch plate that sticks up through the adaptor plate
centre hole, so I can easily measure the distance between the pin and
the edge of the adaptor plate centre hole.

Attempted ASCII-art figure:


| <--- pin
------------- | --------------- <--- Adaptor plate
|
| 
-------------------------- <--- clutch plate


Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

David



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello David,

The 0.060 inch is about 1/16 of a inch which is a lot. We like to get the 
alignment in with of 0.001 inch which is a little less than 1/64 of a inch.

To check to see if you can move the bell housing around, first scribe 
reference marks at the bottom and side edges of the bell housing that is 
against the adapter plate.

If I bolted on my bell housing using the bolts only, which are 3/8 inch 
standard grade 8 bolts, the adapter plate and bell housing bolt holes may be 
exactly 3/8 inch or may be some thousand over.

My 3/8 inch or 0.375 inch bolt is actually 0.373 inch in diameter below the 
head, and 0.369 inch at the threads. I therefore would have 0.375 - 0.369 = 
0.006 inches difference if I install these unit together letting the bell 
housing set all the way down on the bolts.

After you scribe the reference marks, then just loosen up the bolts and see 
if the bell housing will move past these reference marks. If it does, then 
this may be your problem.

Used a jack to see if the bell housing will move up some from these 
reference makes. Make another scribe mark after you move the unit from as 
far as it can go. Then split the difference, tighten everything up and run 
the test.

After you have set the position of the two units as close as possible, 
either by this method in the vehicle or on a test stand out of the vehicle, 
install the CENTERING PINS.

If you look at a engine matting to the bell housing you will see two pins 
about 1/2 inch diameter, that press fits into a hole in the bell housing. 
The adapter plate I order, did not come with these holes for these pins.

After I align the motor, motor adapter plate, and bell housing and test run 
on a test stand, then I install a centering plug into the bell housing hole 
that has a small hole for a pilot drill. I then drill the centering hole, 
remove the bell housing and drill a hole in the adapter plate that is size 
correctly for the centering pin that press fits into the adapter plate and 
firm fit into the bell housing.

You can get these centering pins that are adjustable. They have a allen 
head which can rotated the pin to one side or the other. You can dial right 
in to the 0.001 inch alignment you should have.

There is one more thing you have to watch out for. If the transmission 
pilot shaft nose is to be inserted into some type of bushing or bearing that 
is either in the motor coupler, or goes into the end of the motor output 
shaft, be sure to leave at least some clearance.

My specs for my transmission to pilot bearing clearances call for 1/8 to 
3/16 of a inch. If this pilot bushing is tight against the transmission 
input shaft, then you will get some noise and quickly wear out the 
bearing/bushing and may even take out the rear motor shaft bearing cause by 
too much transmission trusting.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Dymaxion" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment


> My Porsche had a fairly high pitched squeak that was a rub. My adapter was 
> only 0.060" off. Looking through the starter hole, the clearances are 
> amazingly close between the flywheel/pressure plate and the tranny 
> bellhousing. That seems to be a German thing, my German cars have had 
> minimal gaps between moving parts.
>
>
> Can you safely move things while it's spinning to see if the squeak goes 
> away?
>
> I'll 2nd another comment, my brushes also squeaked at first, but it went 
> away pretty quickly.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Rowe <[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:06:20 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment
>
> Hello List,
>
> I am trying to debug a squeak I can hear coming from my bell housing at
> low revs. Some fellow EVers have suggested it might be a mis-alignment
> between the electric motor and gearbox shaft. I have retained the
> clutch - so the noise might be due to the clutch and pressure plates
> sliding against each other as they rotate around slightly different
> centres.
>
> So I removed the adaptor plate from the motor, and placed it back
> against the bell housing, secured loosely by a few bolts. Without the
> weight of the motor I noticed quite a bit of slop in the fit. I can
> move the RH side of the plate about 1.5mm in an up and down direction as
> it rotates around the one location pin that is present in in the upper
> LH side of the bell housing.
>
> So a few questions if I may:
>
> 1/ Could this amount of slop be a problem?
>
> 2/ How close is the alignment between the shaft centres meant to be?
>
> 3/ What is the normal way to get good alignment? I have a suspicion the
> answer might be "machine it right the first time" 
>
> I am trying to work out a way to measure the difference in the centres
> between the gearbox shaft and the adaptor plate/motor. It's tricky as
> the gearbox shaft is recessed. I am messing with temporarily attaching
> a pin to the clutch plate that sticks up through the adaptor plate
> centre hole, so I can easily measure the distance between the pin and
> the edge of the adaptor plate centre hole.
>
> Attempted ASCII-art figure:
>
>
> | <--- pin
> ------------- | --------------- <--- Adaptor plate
> |
> |
> -------------------------- <--- clutch plate
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
>
> David
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
>
>
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> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Bob,

The noise goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed, when when the
gearbox is is neutral. When the motor is rotating at low revs, I can
see the shaft speed up and slow down as it passes certain points in it's
rotation, like it is encountering some resistance.

Thanks,

David



> Bob Bath wrote:
> > A squeak I had on startup was high-pitched brush arcing. Properly rotating the brush holders took care of that one, as ADC motors are made to be adjusted.
> > In my rig, there is a special clutch alignment tool that is used. We did in fact install a new pressure plate when we installed the motor.
> > Without hearing the sound, it's hard for me to say, but. What is it like as you slowly engage the clutch, and dis-engage it?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Roland for those ideas, I like the idea of the scribe marks. 

Even without them I can see by eye that the adaptor plate has at least
1.5mm (0.06 inches) of free play due to difference in the diameter of
the holes and bolts. Sounds like this alone is enough to cause my
problem. 

The trick now is to work out of the adaptor plate can give an accurate
coupling in any of it's possible positions.

- David



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello David,
> >
> > The 0.060 inch is about 1/16 of a inch which is a lot. We like to get the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 08:12 +1030, David Rowe wrote:
> Even without them I can see by eye that the adaptor plate has at least
> 1.5mm (0.06 inches) of free play due to difference in the diameter of
> the holes and bolts. Sounds like this alone is enough to cause my
> problem. 

Even if it's not causing your squeaking problem, it's not a good thing,
it will cause huge forces on the bearings as the shafts flex as they
turn.

The plugs Roland refers to are called Dowels in this part of the world.
My Mitsubishi gearbox has dowels at approximately 4 and 8 o'clock, and
these two holes and the input shaft are the only precise locations on
the bell housing. All the other bolts have slop.

Ideally you take your gearbox and adapter plate to an engineer and have
them measure the dowel holes in the gearbox and drill suitable holes in
the adapter plate so everything lines up. I've also heard of people
setting up the gearbox-motor assembly vertically, so gravity doesn't
pull the motor down and tapping it until the noises go away before
tightening everything. The offset dowels Roland speaks of may help you,
if the dowels aren't buried inside the assembly.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have made a little gauge to help measure the adaptor plate offset, by
attaching a pointer to the clutch plate:

http://rowetel.com/images/ev_gauge.jpg

The pointer is set at a height above the plane of the clutch plate so
that it points right at the edge of the central adaptor plate hole:

http://rowetel.com/images/ev_gauge_plate.jpg

The gap between the pointer and the adaptor plate hole should be
constant as I rotate the clutch plate. I think this arrangement is a
bit like mounting a dial gauge on the clutch plate.

Anyway I can visually see a significant difference in the gap between
the pointer and the adaptor plate hole edge as I rotate it. About 1.2mm
in the X axis and 1mm in the Y axis. Enough to cause my problem I
think.

The adaptor plate is located by one dowel/locking pin in the upper LH
corner. However the matching hole is not a tight fit. On my car, the
second locking pin was on the ICE, which mates with a hole on the bell
housing. This locking pin has not been reproduced on my adaptor plate,
so I only have one pin locking the assembly. The hole for the pin is
oversize (so there is some free play in the pin), and I am not sure it
is correctly located.

I can swing the RH side of the plate up and down about this one pin.
With the free play in the adaptor plate mounting I can make the Y
variation move between -1.0 and 1.4, however the X offset is fairly
constant at 1mm. 

One idea: I could drill out the locking pin hole 1mm oversize, then try
tapping the plate around to see if I can centre it. Otherwise the
locking pin hole would need to be refilled and re-drilled, or perhaps a
new adaptor plate fabricated.

Thanks once again to everyone for their kind advice.

- David





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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Rowe wrote:
> 
> > When the motor is rotating at low revs, I can
> > see the shaft speed up and slow down as it passes certain points in
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Tom,

> Even if it's not causing your squeaking problem, it's not a good thing,
> it will cause huge forces on the bearings as the shafts flex as they
> turn.

Yes, good point!

> The plugs Roland refers to are called Dowels in this part of the world.
> My Mitsubishi gearbox has dowels at approximately 4 and 8 o'clock, and
> these two holes and the input shaft are the only precise locations on
> the bell housing. All the other bolts have slop.

Yes on my Daihatsu Charade there is one dowel on the bell housing, and
one on the ICE. The ICE dowel wasn't reproduced on the adaptor plate.
I am trying to determine if the location of the hole for the bell
housing dowel is in the correct position (see previous post with gauge
pictures). The location hole for the dowel is a little big, I can see
some free play. 

I am thinking your tapping idea combined with Roland's scribe marks
might be the way to go:

1/ Use a few taps to align with my gauge with just the adaptor plate
bolted to the bell housing.
2/ Scribe along the bell housing/plate edges to make alignment marks
3/ Re-assemble motor/adaptor plate/bell housing, tighten a little.
4/ Tap until alignment marks are met. Completely tighten.

The vertical assembly of the motor/gearbox is a good idea. My gearbox
is still in the car, and I would rather not remove it again as it means
draining the oil, and pulling apart the front suspension to flip the
drive shafts out. But I can support the weight of the motor with a
crane while I tap things around.

Cheers,

David

> Ideally you take your gearbox and adapter plate to an engineer and have
> them measure the dowel holes in the gearbox and drill suitable holes in
> the adapter plate so everything lines up. I've also heard of people
> setting up the gearbox-motor assembly vertically, so gravity doesn't
> pull the motor down and tapping it until the noises go away before
> tightening everything. The offset dowels Roland speaks of may help you,
> if the dowels aren't buried inside the assembly.
> 


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Doug,

> If you're looking at the motor shaft, then you're seeing a clue. 
> Something's causing resistance, like you said.

Yes I was looking at the motor shaft that comes out of the other (non
gearbox) end of the electric motor, as I have a dual shaft motor. I can
make it rotate at less than once per second, and watch the shaft speed
up and slow down as it rotates.

> You might be able to jack up one driven wheel (leaving the other on the 
> ground) and turn the lifted wheel to "feel" for points of higher 
> resistance. Try it in different gears and with the clutch in or out 
> and try to pin down what's causing it. Is it in the motor or the 
> tranny? Does it happen in all gears?

Yes, all gears including neutral. The noise goes away with the clutch
pedal depressed and then the motor shaft spins freely. By observing the
motor shaft at the same time as listening I can tell the squeak happens
in sync with each motor revolution. The motor by itself spins freely.

I tried rotating the wheels by hand but couldn't actually "feel" the
resistance this way, I guess too many gears between me and the friction
source. However I am pretty sure the noise is coming from inside the
bell housing.

Thanks for your comments 

Cheers,

David


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi David,

What I did was to stand the motor on end with the gearbox just sitting on 
the adaptor plate held loosely by a couple of Gclamps. I ran the motor with 
a 12V battery and the gearbox "settled" towards its central position. I 
tightened the clamps to hold more firmly and then, with the motor running, I 
tapped the gearbox sideways with a soft hammer while listening carefully to 
the sounds and feeling for vibrations. When I found the best position I 
drilled the bolt holes and put the bolts in to replace the clamps. After 
repeating the sound and vibration test I drilled and reamed the holes for 
the dowel pegs that locate the gearbox on the adaptor plate.

I realise that you already have the holes and that the motor is in the car. 
I think it will be difficult to find the "best" position with the weight of 
the motor and gearbox fighting you. With them standing on end though the 
sideways forces needed to align things can almost be applied with the 
fingers.

Cheers,

Dave (near Canberra).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Rowe" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment


> Hi Bob,
>
> The noise goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed, when when the
> gearbox is is neutral. When the motor is rotating at low revs, I can
> see the shaft speed up and slow down as it passes certain points in it's
> rotation, like it is encountering some resistance.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>


> Bob Bath wrote:
> >> A squeak I had on startup was high-pitched brush arcing. Properly
> >> rotating the brush holders took care of that one, as ADC motors are made
> >> to be adjusted.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi David,

That's a really good way to make the adaptor plate I think, useful to
know for next time 

Cheers,

David (Adelaide)

On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 18:24 +1100, David Micklethwaite wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> What I did was to stand the motor on end with the gearbox just sitting on 
> the adaptor plate held loosely by a couple of Gclamps. I ran the motor with 
> a 12V battery and the gearbox "settled" towards its central position. I 
> tightened the clamps to hold more firmly and then, with the motor running, I 
> tapped the gearbox sideways with a soft hammer while listening carefully to 
> the sounds and feeling for vibrations. When I found the best position I 
> drilled the bolt holes and put the bolts in to replace the clamps. After 
> repeating the sound and vibration test I drilled and reamed the holes for 
> the dowel pegs that locate the gearbox on the adaptor plate.
> 
> I realise that you already have the holes and that the motor is in the car. 
> I think it will be difficult to find the "best" position with the weight of 
> the motor and gearbox fighting you. With them standing on end though the 
> sideways forces needed to align things can almost be applied with the 
> fingers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dave (near Canberra).
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Rowe" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment
> 
> 
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > The noise goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed, when when the
> > gearbox is is neutral. When the motor is rotating at low revs, I can
> > see the shaft speed up and slow down as it passes certain points in it's
> > rotation, like it is encountering some resistance.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Sat, 2008-12-06 at 06:24 -0800, Bob Bath wrote:
> >> A squeak I had on startup was high-pitched brush arcing. Properly 
> >> rotating the brush holders took care of that one, as ADC motors are made 
> >> to be adjusted.
> >> In my rig, there is a special clutch alignment tool that is used. We did 
> >> in fact install a new pressure plate when we installed the motor.
> >> Without hearing the sound, it's hard for me to say, but. What is it like 
> >> as you slowly engage the clutch, and dis-engage it?
> >> TTYL,
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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> 
-- 
Free Telephony Project
open embedded IP-PBX hardware and software
http://www.rowetel.com/ucasterisk

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have resolved the alignment and now have a squeak free EV 

I was pleasantly surprised that this procedure worked:

> 1/ Use a few taps to align with my gauge with just the adaptor plate
> bolted to the bell housing.
> 2/ Scribe along the bell housing/plate edges to make alignment marks
> 3/ Re-assemble motor/adaptor plate/bell housing, tighten a little.
> 4/ Tap until alignment marks are met. Completely tighten.

I supported the motor/gearbox with the crane so I could adjust it while
all in the car. The gauge worked well:

http://rowetel.com/images/ev_gauge.jpg
http://rowetel.com/images/ev_gauge_plate.jpg

Re (1) I gradually unscrewed the threaded pointer shaft on the gauge
until it fouled with the adaptor plate hole at some point. I would then
tap the plate until there was no fouling, then repeat the process until
the pointer shaft just touched at all points. This meant I didn't have
to actually measure anything, the gauge gave me a go/no-go indication.

I just went for a test drive and the low speed squeaking has gone.
Actually it was better described as the creaking sound an un-oiled door
makes. It was louder than the rest of the car at low revs (including
Curtis whine). Now all I can hear is the Curtis and a little
transmission noise. At last, a quiet EV.

I would guess it's not a very accurate alignment but certainly a big
improvement. I have learnt a lot about adaptor plate alignment and
fabrication which will be useful for the next EV.

Thank you very much for all of your kind assistance - made me feel like
I was not alone in the shed 

- David


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I did similar thing back in 2000 (left adapter plate loose
to self-center and see if dower pins locations on the
bell housing and adapter plate will match:

http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fit2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fit3.jpg

But there was no need to tap it while rotating - they matched
perfectly. What I wanted to point out in this email is that using mounting
bolts as aligning instrument by sizing the holes just large
enough for the bolts to go through is very wrong thing to do!
You only use two dowel pins for centering. Usually holes for bolts on 
the bell housing are about 1.5mm larger in diameter than the bolt 
diameter as the bolts function is only to hold them together,
never center them.

If you must self-center the assembly, after you're done, drill your own
holes through both - bell housing and adapter plate while they are 
clamped together. *Then* install your dowels, enlarge holes
(in the plate) for bolts shafts and assemble whole thing. If you'll ever
need to take this apart you'll thank yourself.

Victor

David Rowe wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> That's a really good way to make the adaptor plate I think, useful to
> know for next time 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David (Adelaide)
> 
> On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 18:24 +1100, David Micklethwaite wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>> What I did was to stand the motor on end with the gearbox just sitting on 
>> the adaptor plate held loosely by a couple of Gclamps. I ran the motor with 
>> a 12V battery and the gearbox "settled" towards its central position. I 
>> tightened the clamps to hold more firmly and then, with the motor running, I 
>> tapped the gearbox sideways with a soft hammer while listening carefully to 
>> the sounds and feeling for vibrations. When I found the best position I 
>> drilled the bolt holes and put the bolts in to replace the clamps. After 
>> repeating the sound and vibration test I drilled and reamed the holes for 
>> the dowel pegs that locate the gearbox on the adaptor plate.
>>
>> I realise that you already have the holes and that the motor is in the car. 
>> I think it will be difficult to find the "best" position with the weight of 
>> the motor and gearbox fighting you. With them standing on end though the 
>> sideways forces needed to align things can almost be applied with the 
>> fingers.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave (near Canberra).
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Rowe" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment
>>
>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> The noise goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed, when when the
>>> gearbox is is neutral. When the motor is rotating at low revs, I can
>>> see the shaft speed up and slow down as it passes certain points in it's
>>> rotation, like it is encountering some resistance.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Sat, 2008-12-06 at 06:24 -0800, Bob Bath wrote:
>>>> A squeak I had on startup was high-pitched brush arcing. Properly 
>>>> rotating the brush holders took care of that one, as ADC motors are made 
>>>> to be adjusted.
>>>> In my rig, there is a special clutch alignment tool that is used. We did 
>>>> in fact install a new pressure plate when we installed the motor.
>>>> Without hearing the sound, it's hard for me to say, but. What is it like 
>>>> as you slowly engage the clutch, and dis-engage it?
>>>> TTYL,
>>>
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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 10:34 +1030, David Rowe wrote:

> Yes on my Daihatsu Charade there is one dowel on the bell housing, and
> one on the ICE. The ICE dowel wasn't reproduced on the adaptor plate.

It's more likely that one dowel jammed in the gearbox and the other
jammed in the motor -- the dowels are separate, precisely machined
cylinders which fit into the precisely machined holes in the block and
gearbox. I had to visit a wreckers yard and spend quite some time
extracting the dowels from an engine, as my gearbox didn't have any.

> I am trying to determine if the location of the hole for the bell
> housing dowel is in the correct position (see previous post with gauge
> pictures). The location hole for the dowel is a little big, I can see
> some free play. 

Who made your adapter? I'm surprised they didn't understand the
importance alignment of everything and the role of the dowels. 

Anyway, it sounds like you've got everything sorted out now. If you
don't feel like aligning everything again when it next comes apart, and
if there is room on the bellhousing, you might want to drill a couple of
holes and ream them to fit some new dowels.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Tom,

> It's more likely that one dowel jammed in the gearbox and the other
> jammed in the motor -- the dowels are separate, precisely machined
> cylinders which fit into the precisely machined holes in the block and
> gearbox. I had to visit a wreckers yard and spend quite some time
> extracting the dowels from an engine, as my gearbox didn't have any.

OK - good point!

> Anyway, it sounds like you've got everything sorted out now. If you
> don't feel like aligning everything again when it next comes apart, and
> if there is room on the bellhousing, you might want to drill a couple of
> holes and ream them to fit some new dowels.

That's a good idea. Could you pls explain the reaming process a little
more? I am a very junior machinist  Is the idea to drill slightly
undersize then "ream" to get an exact fit on the dowel?

Thanks,

David



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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

All you have to do, is go to your auto engine parts store and pick up any 
size dowels pins you want. They make standard, undersize and oversize ones. 
I change these pins out on a new assembly every time.

In the spec sheet, it will tell you what type and size of drill to use.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Rowe" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] adaptor plate alignment


> Hi Tom,
>
> > It's more likely that one dowel jammed in the gearbox and the other
> > jammed in the motor -- the dowels are separate, precisely machined
> > cylinders which fit into the precisely machined holes in the block and
> > gearbox. I had to visit a wreckers yard and spend quite some time
> > extracting the dowels from an engine, as my gearbox didn't have any.
>
> OK - good point!
>
> > Anyway, it sounds like you've got everything sorted out now. If you
> > don't feel like aligning everything again when it next comes apart, and
> > if there is room on the bellhousing, you might want to drill a couple of
> > holes and ream them to fit some new dowels.
>
> That's a good idea. Could you pls explain the reaming process a little
> more? I am a very junior machinist  Is the idea to drill slightly
> undersize then "ream" to get an exact fit on the dowel?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>
> 

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> That's a good idea. Could you pls explain the reaming process a 
> little
> more? I am a very junior machinist  Is the idea to drill slightly
> undersize then "ream" to get an exact fit on the dowel?
>

Hi David,

You've got it right. I drill bit isn't the most precise way to make a 
hole. The holes tend to be a little oversized and a tiny bit 
triangular. A reamer is a good way to make the hole almost exactly 
the right size. Depending on the size of the bit, a drill bit will 
have a tendency to walk a bit when drilling through something thick 
(like to chunks of aluminum). I think reamers are less likely to do 
this.
This may all be splitting hairs and a drill bit might be precise 
enough...

The dowels are usually a pretty tight fit which is why they usually 
end up sticking to the engine (or adapter plate) or transmission.

I just picked up my 14mm dowels the other day (for a Honda 
transmission).

-Jeremy

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