# Australia - PT Cruiser conversion



## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

G'day I see there are a few PT conversions in USA , anyone know if one has been done in Australia yet.

I might be the first . Total EV Newbie here, DIY EV has been on my list of things to do for a while . I'm listening to ideas & advice . The project is well within my skill level & wan't to do as much as DIY as possible . But learn as I go. 

Doing a website as I go, & will put updated & ask noob questions here. 

Im thinking I need a motor with shaft on both ends so I can drive powersteer pump , Or is there a 12v pump solution . 

my website is www.goingbush.com/ptev.html

Biggest hurdle so far is finding a VASS engineer in Vic with some DIY EV conversion so I can get the thing Blue Plated (certified ) for road use , coming to a dead end so far. Need to consult one & get the go ahead before I start as the car is currently unregistered.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

A PT cruiser was one of the car chassis I considered when doing my xB conversion. As such I've got some specs I collected on my own site at http://amphibike.org/blog/scion-xb-ev/scion-xb-ev-research/chassis-selection/ . You can use that information to compute likely efficiency and range for a given battery size.

Good luck.


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Hi Brian, thanks for your information, Very useful & a great resource your website is too, I will refer back.

I have been advised that I will have trouble getting a post '93 conversion certified in Australia due to the changes to crumple zone, but there are plenty running around here so I think its more who you know rather than what you know.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi from a felow Aussie EVer to another.

I don't quite get what you mean about the crumple zone.
Are you saying that it is difficult to get any post 93 PT certified?
Or are you saying converting one to EV somehow impacts the crumple zone?

If it is the former I can kinda understand. But if it's the later I don't understand why an EV conversion would require them to recertify the crumple zone. They should only need to certify any changes you make, not the entire car. 

When I had my 240z changes certified they only certifed the changes. They didn't go back and question the rest of the 1970 specifications against current standards. 

Anyway, good luck and I hope you go through with it.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

Oh and I forgot, have you considered changing to an electric power steering unit? 

My perception is that it would be more efficient because hydraulic would require constant pump pressure while an electric rack would only apply power when turning. (Happy to be corrected if that is not the case)


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Galderi your 240Z sounds neat, are you in Vic . I still cant find a VASS engineer who is willing to help. maybe this is only a Victorian problem. 
Any leads welcomed. 

The info I received was that the ICE forms part of the Crumple zone on any post 93 car (not just PT cruisers) , and removing that ICE will be a problem. If I make a frame that mounts the Electric Motor using the original engine mounts I think it will assimilate the crumple zone of original ICE , Perhaps I could also mount my spare wheel in front , where radiator was . (As i doubt they will let me put Lifepo4's there !!)

Not that I plan to crash it. 

I was thinking I could get a Manual Steering rack from an earlier Chrysler Neon, as the PT is built on a Neon platform, But I don't think they made RHD manual steer racks so Electric PS does seem a better option than mounting PS pump on new motor.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

Ah ok that makes sense now. Surely they can provide some criteria under which it would still meet the crumple requirements. Maybe its a case of leaving certain components in place even if they aren't required in an EV (eg Radiator etc). Maybe ask them specifically which components play a part in the crumple zone compliance?

No I am in QLD so my leads would not be useful to you. I suspect those sort of rules would be similar anyway.

Just to be clear my 240z is still ICE. My EV is a pure track car so no compliance was required.


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

G'day goingbush,

I can only speak about NSW rules so maybe different in VIC? Mine is a 93/94 Suzuki Swift. Steel angle battery bays at both ends of the car, welded in place, means it no longer has a crumple zone (slight, but only slight, exaggeration!)

We had an electrical engineer certify the wiring/safety aspects and then looked up the list of motor vehicle engineers published by the NSW roads authority. The nearest engineer looked at the car and required a few very minor changes and once completed he certified the car. When the "blue slip" mechanic saw the two certifications we had, he gave me the "blue slip" immediately.

After all that, getting the "pink slip" safety check was a breeze.

I would be surprised if VIC doesn't have a list of approved engineers authorised to approve modifications, both mechanical and electrical, to all vehicles?

Cheers
Paul


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

A couple of years ago Australia was thinking about buying the NZ "Hobby Car Manual"
Don't know what happened

But it's online 
http://www.lvvta.org.nz/

Might be worth having a look


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Paul9 said:


> <snip>
> 
> I would be surprised if VIC doesn't have a list of approved engineers authorised to approve modifications, both mechanical and electrical, to all vehicles?
> 
> ...


Yes VicRoads has an long list of VASS engineers but does not specify EV , just Heavy Vehicle or Light Vehicle. 

https://www.google.com.au/search?client=opera&q=vicroads+vass+list&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 

Most are Metro Melbourne, but me being in the country the nearest are more than EV range away & no experience in EV . Im working my way through the list without success so far. The two VASS engineers Ive dealt with for mods Ive done on 4x4 vehicles are not interested. Its like they don't want my money. 

Not even getting much response from Aust DIY EV vendors, Im going to be spending multi thousands of dollars with the lucky one that responds with some answers to a few questions - but its like they don't want my money.

Looks like I'll be shopping overseas !! 

Im sure in USA they have retailers fighting for your business !!


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## Paul9 (Oct 2, 2015)

I am familiar with your problem! You are probably going to have to purchase your motor, charger and batteries from overseas anyway or from an Aust importer of overseas components.

Zero Emission Vehicles Aust (ZEVA) make a very good range of controllers and there are a number of Battery Management System manufacturers in Aust.

Unfortunately overseas manufacturers are sometimes no better at good service than Aust manufacturers. I have been waiting for 6 weeks to receive delivery of two chargers from China. I was originally promised 12 days delivery.

Good luck,
Paul


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

My most recent controller is a Zeva unit. I have found the hardware and service to be excellent. I can't recommend them highly enough.

They also have BMS and other components that all play very nicely together.


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

I've been driving a 2002 PT Cruiser Woodie. Its heavy and not very aerodynamic but it looks cool and can haul 4 people or 2 with lots of stuff in rear with seats down. I have a Warp 9 motor, Eventics Soliton JR, 46 x 180aha thundersky batteries, elithion master BMS, Brusa 513 charger, v and amp gauges, power brakes with electric pump, manual steering. Its got a cool fiberglass front end and woodie sides. Very comfortable daily driver!!

Here's some build pics

I'll have to post later pics as I swapped wheels to really cool moonies smaller footprint easier to steer and better efficiency plus it looks better.

Chassis is built like a tank it has Mercedes Benz plate on body so I suspect they had a hand in building these platforms. Also the Wagner 5 speed gearbox is builtproof and is really fun to shift. I drive the car in 3 gears and find its better to use some shifting to help the Warp 9 moving the tank down the road. Overall they make for a really fun electric and extremely practical easy to get parts and fix. I was told the engine was the weak link in the car everything else was pretty solid, and I would agree. Surprisingly its a lot smaller than my wifes Leaf!

Steve


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

hbthink said:


> Chassis is built like a tank it has Mercedes Benz plate on body so I suspect they had a hand in building these platforms.


The PT Cruiser was from the DaimlerChrysler era, so it would presumably have the Daimler name on it somewhere. For markets outside of North America it was apparently built in Austria, likely in a plant which also produced Mercedes vehicles. I don't think there was any involvement from the European operations in the design; it was designed before the Daimler era, started with the Neon platform, and shares parts with the Neon (and other Chryslers, especially the Breeze/Cirrus/Status or "cloud cars")... but I don't think there's any Mercedes connection in parts or design.

It is an interesting design, with a rare use of rear beam axle located by a Watts linkage in a front-drive vehicle.


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

*Re: Australia - PT Cruiser or LandRover conversion*

My Australian delivered 2001 PT Cruiser (RHD) is made in Mexico , I would have thought they are all made in Mexico. 

Well the EV PT Cruiser project is officially, or should I say Bearacratically De-Railed . Found VASS engineer who advises I forget about it making any changes that will affect front or side crumple zones on any post '93 vehicle (according to Australian Design Rules) . Not saying its impossible but I better have very deep pockets & be very patient. 

So that leaves me with my 1973 LandRover Lightweight , Engineer says ADR's not an issue as long as I follow VSB14 .

Worse Aerodynamic Coefficient than the PT Cruiser - about the same weight!!

Will I or Wont I ??


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

brian_ said:


> For markets outside of North America it was apparently built in Austria...





goingbush said:


> My Australian delivered 2001 PT Cruiser (RHD) is made in Mexico , I would have thought they are all made in Mexico.


Sorry, I missed the detail in the Wikipedia article that production in Austria was only in 2002... so most PT Cruisers will have been built in Mexico.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

The LandRover would be ok. But it depends on your budget and requirements. In the EV world weight and aero are key. The electric torque would make the LandRover excellent off road. But range and top speed will be the more difficult requirements to satisfy. It is doable, but you would need to throw a lot of dollars at it.

What range and top speed would you be looking for?


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

galderdi said:


> The LandRover would be ok. But it depends on your budget and requirements. In the EV world weight and aero are key. The electric torque would make the LandRover excellent off road. But range and top speed will be the more difficult requirements to satisfy. It is doable, but you would need to throw a lot of dollars at it.
> 
> What range and top speed would you be looking for?


100kmh max , range 100km will do. Currently Flat chat on a slight downhill it will do 98kmh measured by GPS , 

Regen braking would be nice off road , so I was thinking AC50 

Tare is 1560kg , I suspect that will come down as the 4-cylinder cast iron lump is heavier than the V8 engines often used to replace them, so Electric motor and LiFePo4's will be lighter again. 

I realise it will cost magnitudes more than economically viablility.


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## itchyback (May 28, 2014)

I'm surprised that they wouldnt touch your car because its after 1993. I met my engineer yesterday and he said hes done a few conversions on MX5's (production started in 1989 but i am sure he said they were after 1993 models). 
He also mentioned the battery boxes i'm installing in the front would add nicely to the structural rigidity of the car and someone replace whatever the engine would do in an accident (1969 car, no problems with 'crumple zones'). 
I know youre remote so your options are limited. could you get advice from a local EV club or phone advice from an engineer from further afield who might be more accommodating. My engineer charged for travel time, (20minutes down the road), perhaps you could too? and hes only expecting to have to come out 2-3 times. He said he would normally only come out twice but i'm locating my engine between the rear wheels so have some extra complexity/ attention required, to do that properly.


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## galderdi (Nov 17, 2015)

itchyback said:


> I'm surprised that they wouldnt touch your car because its after 1993.


I agree with Itchy, it's possibly a case of the Engineer you spoke to not being confident enough with EV conversions so they are making it dificult for you to proceed with them.



itchyback said:


> I know youre remote so your options are limited. could you get advice from a local EV club or phone advice from an engineer from further afield who might be more accommodating.


Again I agree with Itchy. Try the Victorian chapter of AEVA. There should be a wealth of members there able to point you towards some engineers.

I was also going to suggest using the filters on the Garage list in this forum. It fives manufacture year but not location, so I don't think it's going to give you what you need.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Guys
The NZ system is different
But some things are the same - most "certifiers" are not allowed to do EV's - there is only one certifier for EV's on the South Island
So the majority of your "engineers" will be the same!

I had to trailer my device to Dunedin - first as an assembled car but with an unpainted chassis and second as a completed car - to be certified
despite the fact that there is a very good certifier in the next street!

Your FIRST job is finding an engineer who is willing and able to do the certification


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

Ive joined the AEVA , and a Victorian committe member also advised I would have trouble with post '93 Vehicle. I am fully prepared to trailer the car 4 hours to a metro engineer for inspection as many times as is necessary, but i'm still drawing a blank wall. 

I cant believe it needs to be so difficult. 

Itchyback if your in Victoria do you mind PM'ing your engineer's details & hopefully he will be able to take me on.


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

PT Cruiser officially canned, due to Red Tape.

Im converting the LandRover instead. Just purchased last Rover adaptor kit from CEV .


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## brian_ (Feb 7, 2017)

goingbush said:


> Im converting the LandRover instead.


For inspiration...
Bollinger B1


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## goingbush (Jun 20, 2017)

brian_ said:


> For inspiration...
> Bollinger B1


Thanks Brian, I saw that this morning. 

that would be my dream car


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## PTPasto (Oct 4, 2021)

hbthink said:


> I've been driving a 2002 PT Cruiser Woodie. Its heavy and not very aerodynamic but it looks cool and can haul 4 people or 2 with lots of stuff in rear with seats down. I have a Warp 9 motor, Eventics Soliton JR, 46 x 180aha thundersky batteries, elithion master BMS, Brusa 513 charger, v and amp gauges, power brakes with electric pump, manual steering. Its got a cool fiberglass front end and woodie sides. Very comfortable daily driver!!
> 
> Here's some build pics
> 
> ...


Steve id like to contact your with some questions about the conversion, i have a GT that i want to make an GT EV. Thanks


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

No problem the build was awhile back used a Warp 9 with Evnetics Soliton Jr and 45 Thundersky 180 aha batteries. Car drove quite well very smooth loved the 5 speed slushbox.

Steve


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## PTPasto (Oct 4, 2021)

hbthink said:


> No problem the build was awhile back used a Warp 9 with Evnetics Soliton Jr and 45 Thundersky 180 aha batteries. Car drove quite well very smooth loved the 5 speed slushbox.
> 
> Steve


Im curious to know how the ECU acted? Meaning were there any sensors that prohibited the car from using all the gages and lights, breaks? Did you use an electric throttle peddle? Last thing i was curious about is the GT has that auto/manual transmission do you know if that will work or do i need a 5 speed. Sorry I new to all this. Thanks in advance for any help.


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## hbthink (Dec 21, 2010)

I tore it out my 2002 did not use electronic throttle I used a pot based to the mechanical peddle. I was a manual 5 speed and kept it in the drivetrain I like to shift.


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## PTPasto (Oct 4, 2021)

so the ECU didnt interfere with the cars ability to use the breaks or any other functions of the car? Im going to have to get a 5 speed, I have the ultradrive and im sure it wont work. 
im about 2 months away from starting this project i think ill post it all on youtube seeing as theres not to much info out there.


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