# 24M signs MOU with NEC to supply grid batteries



## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Looks like these guys are still on track.

I know they say they are focusing on grid storage, but from what I've read about their manufacturing process I have not detected any reason why these would not work equally well in EVs.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151013005436/en#.Vh08-yv2jL5


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Do we know any tech details of these cells ?...other than they might last 20 years !
Specific energy,/ power ?
Cost/kWhr
Etc


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Chemistry is essentially the same as other LiIon batteries, but because of the way they make them (far fewer layers, no need for "drying") they have less "filler" and are far cheaper to produce.

If I had to guess, energy density will be 1.05-1.2 times better than Tesla packs (not much different) but the big improvements are (as you point out) longer lifetimes and lower price to manufacture.

The other big, "Aha!" from all of this is that we have been trapped in a mode of thinking regarding batteries due to the origins of the battery industry (which emerged from the magnetic tape industry). These guys aren't the first to break the mold in this regard - see Amrys' liquid metal battery - but most folks have just assumed consumer batteries would continue to be built the traditional way just swapping out materials. 

Personally I am rooting for "quantum batteries." In theory these offer the capability of exceeding the energy density of any chemical reaction (gasoline, traditional batteries based on chemical reactions, etc.). Somehow though I don't expect them any time soon...


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

> ... most folks have just assumed consumer batteries would continue to be built the traditional way just swapping out materials.


 ? what is unique about these guys method of production or cell format ?
pouch , prismatic, or some new format ?


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

Here is a pretty good article with illustrations from Forbes.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

Ahh!...ok now I remember this also..


> http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/24m-unveils-the-reinvented-lithium-ion-battery


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## PhantomPholly (Aug 20, 2008)

That's the one. In re-reading, they claim to take out almost 80% of the "extra material" - depending on how much that is, we might see as much as a 1.5x energy density, but I won't hold my breath.

It really doesn't matter. If it can charge in 5 minutes at special stations on the highways or overnight at home, energy density is already good enough for most people if the price comes down enough they can afford a "bigger tank."


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