# Tesla Confirms Development of Model 'S' Plug-in Hybrid Sedan



## Whitey_87 (May 30, 2008)

1.5 times the price you get 5+ times the range of the Chevy Volt...Take that GM.

Good for Tesla.


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Now to see if they can beat them to the showrooms. Tesla is showing some real promise for turning the "set in their ways" american auto industry on their ears...


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

And here I am being the skeptic again....

224 mile range, but they do not specifically state if thats on battery power.

224 miles is the current EPA range estimate for the roadster as well, but the roadster doesn't have any ICE systems in it. I have a nagging feeling that this claim might be more of a "composite estimate" based on past results than actually fact of what this S model can actually do in the real world.

A long range EV with range extender is a great idea though and I'm not ready to fault them yet. The volt is claimed to have a range of 40 miles and I'm taking that with a grain of salt. For all the problems with tesla to date, its still one of the best chances for the electric car to succeed today.

Wonder if their S model will be available in a pure battery powered version and use all the available space for batteries instead of trying to accommodate an engine and all the systems that are needed to make it run.


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm sure Martin Eberhard is going nuts over the plugin decision. He really wanted Tesla to stay strictly EV. I don't see plugins as a bad technology as long as the EV range is large enough to almost never need the range extender. Perfect is the enemy of good.


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## TheSeeker (Mar 19, 2008)

Ummm... hybrid? since when?
Originally Aired: June 25, 2008








http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june08/musk_06-25.html


> SPENCER MICHELS: So is this the future, do you think? Is this -- I mean electric cars -- really coming at us at this point?
> 
> ELON MUSK: Absolutely, electrics cars are, I cannot tell you how much electric cars of the future, they are absolutely what we will drive [...] and not that far away. I've actually made a prediction that within 30 years a majority of new cars made in the United States will be electric. And I don't mean hybrid, I mean fully electric.
> 
> ...


Posted July 12:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/145876


> *Your car runs exclusively on electricity, but GM and Toyota are working on so-called plug-in hybrids, which also feature a gas tank to extend the range. Why didn't you do the same?
> *We spent a lot of time last year looking at plug-in hybrids and ultimately concluded that it would not be a very good car. You're forced to compromise. Because you need both a gasoline-powered engine and a big battery, neither can be very good, and the engine will be a weak engine. It's just not where the future lies. We'll be able to offer a car with a 305-mile range roughly three years from now.
> 
> 
> ...


I see no persons quoted that could be followed up with directly to attribute this REV notion... and more digging for the video clip I swear I saw recently suggests that it's old content mistakenly labeled new...
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/future-cars/1568-model-s-hybrid-after-all.html


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## electro37 (May 18, 2008)

*Tesla+Supercapacitors+AC Drive Motor, seems an "unbeatable scenario"*

Tavrima Canada has a supercap "worthy" of Tesla, I suggest that other people should "pressure" Tavrima to sell to the general public (it seems that the company just want a contract with the Big 3 automakers)!!!! These Tavrima supercaps have been purchased by NASA, NY Transit put them through a mass of tests and proved them almost indestructible.


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## Telco (Jun 28, 2008)

Whitey_87 said:


> 1.5 times the price you get 5+ times the range of the Chevy Volt...Take that GM.
> 
> Good for Tesla.


And 200 miles from home, the Volt can drive home with a few gallons of gas. The Tesla has to be pushed unless you can find someone willing to let you plug in for a few hours. Take that ******!  

Until there's an infrastructure that allows a full recharge in 10 minutes, the Volt is going to be the best solution for the common man. I view the Volt, and like vehicles, as the next stop on the road to no-petrol driving, not as a dead end.


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## Whitey_87 (May 30, 2008)

Telco said:


> And 200 miles from home, the Volt can drive home with a few gallons of gas. The Tesla has to be pushed unless you can find someone willing to let you plug in for a few hours. Take that ******!


Are you forgetting your Convert it book? You can pull over and "grow" some power by letting the battery sit for a few min. 



Telco said:


> Until there's an infrastructure that allows a full recharge in 10 minutes, the Volt is going to be the best solution for the common man. I view the Volt, and like vehicles, as the next stop on the road to no-petrol driving, not as a dead end.


Why do we need a charging infrastructure? We have 1 of the big three saying that a majority of the population does not drive more than 40 miles for a given commute. That means leaving your charging station (home) traveling wherever, then returning to your charging station (home) is 40 miles or less. Just make the battery do better than 40 miles...dunno, just my thinking.

GM claiming that a 40 mile range is all that a production electric car can sustain is a splendid example of how GM is going to drag their feet with this. Someone should remind GM at one of their Volt showings what the EV1 was capable of with lead acid and then NiMH.

I hope all of the auto mfgs have an EV vehicle for sale. I am waiting for Nissan or Honda's EV. 

I do not plan to buy a GM EV unless they brought back the EV1, apologized to everyone for their stupidity, and sent us cupcakes with sprinkles.


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## TheSeeker (Mar 19, 2008)

Telco said:


> And 200 miles from home, the Volt can drive home with a few gallons of gas. The Tesla has to be pushed unless you can find someone willing to let you plug in for a few hours. Take that ******!
> 
> Until there's an infrastructure that allows a full recharge in 10 minutes, the Volt is going to be the best solution for the common man. I view the Volt, and like vehicles, as the next stop on the road to no-petrol driving, not as a dead end.


Try looking a couple posts up at the quote from the newsweek interview from last month. Here. I'll do it for you!



TheSeeker said:


> > *Most people travel less than 50 miles a day.
> > *And 99 percent of travel is under 200 miles [a day]. There is the occasional road trip, but that's actually pretty rare, and for some people it's never. Our second model will address that rare case in two ways. One is to allow people to switch out the battery pack, so you can go to a battery-change station just like you'd go to a gas station. The second path is to have a high-speed charge. If you have a high-powered onboard charger, you can get an 80 percent charge in 45 minutes. If you're going from L.A. to San Francisco, which is about a 400-mile trip, you can drive 200 miles, stop for lunch, charge your car in the restaurant parking lot, finish lunch and continue the remaining 200 miles to San Francisco.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

PHEVs are a good intermediate step to a quick charging infrastructure. Many may argue that trains are a better way to travel long distances, but I personally like the car better. We can't do EV interstate driving right now, but I think it will be possible after we get a few million PHEVs on the road.


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I happen to like driving. Might want to take a train some day but since there are no real trains where I live its not an option anyway. Lets face it, the automobile is the universial transporter of our time. Public transit has its place but there are areas where it simply doesn't exist or will not work even if it did.

A little bit sad that they have lost that part of thier identity and gone ahead with a hybrid. Don't get me wrong, hybrids have their place, and I'm glad there is an industrial arms race to get the first series hybrids out there. But Tesla was nice because they were the only one to even attempt to deliver an all electric car that could drive several hundred miles on one charge. The tesla roadster is a car ahead of its time, putting an ICE in it while being practical, kind of ruins the novelty for me.

With toyota and GM both claiming an all electric range of up to 40 miles from the volt and prius in 2010, it beggs the question of what problem tesla motors is really solving with this $60k car? I also have a hunch that the all electric range will not be 200+ miles as claimed in this report. I'm actually a little worried for the company. The roadster was a success because of lack of competition in the same class. The same may not be true if they go through with this hybrid.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

we cannot go just pure electric. our economy cannot handle it. we will need to still use oil to some extent. a switch to electric can happen but we will need series hybrids first. we also have to reteach people how to drive. you cannot drive a hybrid like a normal car and expect to get 40 miles out of it. 

try to dart around in a 4000 pound vehicle and those batteries that deliver 40 miles on a good charge will be lucky to get 20.


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## KiwiEV (Jul 26, 2007)

This may have already been covered in this thread but I heard on evcast.com that the stories about Tesla offering a Hybrid car were false. The boys on evcast spoke to a designer(?) at Tesla who confirmed it was a mistake made by a journalist. Their ideology is pure battery electric - my favourite!


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

michaeljayclark said:


> we cannot go just pure electric. our economy cannot handle it. we will need to still use oil to some extent.


<sarcasm>
I think you're right... the absolute best thing for our economy is to continue giving the middle east trillions of dollars per year for crude oil.
</sarcasm>


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

KiwiEV said:


> This may have already been covered in this thread but I heard on evcast.com that the stories about Tesla offering a Hybrid car were false. The boys on evcast spoke to a designer(?) at Tesla who confirmed it was a mistake made by a journalist. Their ideology is pure battery electric - my favourite!


I sure hope so!

Electrics can't replace everything yet, but they cannot compete with other hybrids that are on the market either. If tesla continues to develop pure battery powered cars than their long term prosperity will be more likely since that is the only way they can take advantage of the head start they have.


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## SPARKY (Aug 15, 2008)

I wanted to take possession of a Volt by now, now I see its just more GM Lies. (EV1)


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## saab96 (Mar 19, 2008)

SPARKY said:


> I wanted to take possession of a Volt by now, now I see its just more GM Lies. (EV1)


How do you figure? The only think that will stop the Volt from being produced is GM going under.

http://jalopnik.com/5043340/chevy-v...entennial-concept-in-transformers-2-set-video


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

saab96 said:


> The only think that will stop the Volt from being produced is GM going under.


So the Volt isn't going to be built...


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

The Volt looks like it will be built. I heard today at the local EAA meeting that they're about to reveal which battery manufacturer they've chosen. I don't think it's going to be A123 though.


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## paker (Jun 20, 2008)

I've read that GM is going to produce their own batteries for the volt.


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