# ELECTROFIRE - Fiero + forklift components



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

On my sepex, the field is about 1 Ohm, a series will be much less.


Stunt Driver said:


> Well, hopefully it is time for me to start the build.
> 
> Got some forklift components, need a bit of Guru help to identify.
> 9" Motor - is it possible to tell if this is a series wound motor or sepex?
> ...


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Arm resistance with my digital meter showed 1 Ohm also, but I just tried to run motor as series wound off 12v freshly charged battery - it does run strong. I guess it's a find for $150. (doable in Oregon)

I plan to run motor off 48 volts - got 6 of 6v Trojan batteries already @ $10 each, loooking for 2 more now. Batteries came used of a sweeper, they don't say anything like deep cycle. Is that a problem?


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Remember that's 1 ohm field resistance, not armature.

My sepex won't turn in series with 12 V. With the 1 Ohm field it draws only about ~12 Amps, but it needs just under about 20 Amps at 12 Volts to turn.


Stunt Driver said:


> Arm resistance with my digital meter showed 1 Ohm also, but I just tried to run motor as series wound off 12v freshly charged battery - it does run strong. I guess it's a find for $150. (doable in Oregon)
> 
> I plan to run motor off 48 volts - got 6 of 6v Trojan batteries already @ $10 each, loooking for 2 more now. Batteries came used of a sweeper, they don't say anything like deep cycle. Is that a problem?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Well, I got bench setup working last night as it was in Hyster forklift. Potbox looks kinda ugly, but is able to slowly increase motor speed. Didn't simplify wiring yet, so motor is able to go both directions. If potbox depressed all the way AND after a 3 second delay after start - second contractor kicks in, allowing direct connection of motor to batteries, bypassing SCR module. Looks like a good idea for acceleration - no Amp limit here. 
Now sure how it works, but when running at very low torgue - I can hear light, almost non mechanical clicking in SCR module. With more potbox travel - clicking frequency increased.

The only drawback - i would have to stay within 48v for now. But this fits well within my plan - build a driveable foundation for future possible upgrades of electrics, spending pocket money only. With those Trojan T-105 batteries i got, seems like I should be able to do 5-7 miles. Just not sure about battery capacity left - they are over 10 years old.


And if staying within 48v - am I loosing something by not spending $$$ on proper PWM controller?


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

The only things you are losing by staying with 48v is acceleration, top speed and range. But you will have a good solid baseline to work up from.

Keith


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

2 Kek - 48v is not in quesion now, but buying PWM controller now, or just staying with forklift EV system - what i'm up to. And there is a good reason behind - my total investment in traction parts - $200. I would need coupler and adapter plate and that should close my budget for now.
all batteries for 48V should nicely fit in the FIero's engine bay. For future upgrade - i'll add more in front, and will run cables thru coolant pipes under body - perfect cabling path! In longer run voltage will depend on battery pricing. Will watch prices on LiPo batteries and BMSs too.


Want to make instrument panel be nice and informative 
Looking into gauges now - Have any one tried to modify OIL pressure gauge to show voltage on 12v scale? I would add values myself on the background, but need needle to go from 8 volts on left to 13 volts on right, to monitor 12v car battery.
Will replace temp and fuel gauges by LCD meters - those are a perfect fit on Fiero.
Also will make tachometer work somehow. WOuld be nice to have motor's RPM, and this way - ALL gauges will be utilized.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

I know exactly what you're talking about (budget). My bike is running at 36v because those are the components I scrounged up. To this point I have a total cash outlay of $25 dollars.

As to your controller question - the SCR unit is heavier and less efficient(especially in that "bypass" mode) but it's also FREE. So why not try it out. You can always watch for a good deal on a newer controller while you are building around this one.

If that controller is an EV-1 there used to be higher voltage boards available too.

Keith


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

It looks like you have a good start on an EV! The batteries in my Fiero are 7 years old and the mileage is getting to be limiting. So the 10 year old batteries would probably just be less mileage yet. But for a starter battery pack, they will work great. Get everything wired and working. Then later look at getting better batteries.

I read a lot of people over volting those fork lift motors. So you might be able to do that eventually if you get a newer controller.

Best of luck!


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Dash plan with primitive paint-shop Shoud be just a match and look like native.

Getting inside motor as well. Done a little cleaning on motor, and got inside it to see how can I advance brushes. To my surprise - motor is built ready to advance brush timing! All brushes are mounted on a ring, which is rotatable and tightened down by two bolt-tightened clips. 
What's more amazing - BOLTS are ACCESSIBLE from outside of motor! So did 10 degrees advance just in case, but should be able to adjust it later when driving too, there is just no good handle to move brush ring around.

Another good surprise came when I took off pinion and brake - motor has splined shafts on both sides, and both pinion and brake mount - are ideal for coupler manufacturing! I think to save space and use standard flywheel - i will not fix it with nut, because there would be no space for coupler to slide AND clutch will constantly press flywheel-coupler back on shaft, even if it comes a bit off.

After talking to 2 nice gentlemens at PIR last weekend (EV drags) - I decided to go with clutch. It will only add a bit of rotating weight, but may even ease complexity. Also, I don't have to use clutch if I don't need it, or if I get too worried about motor bearings.

So my current plan - machine brake coupler to fit flywheel, and bolt them together. Sounds easy?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Two things are going on with my project - reanimating 14 year old Troyan batteries, and looking for cheap aluminum plate to get adapter plate done.

I was surprised by prices - Reliance Metal quoted $182 for 3/4 thick 17''x17'' aluminum. Is that normal? And how thick really adapter plate needs to be?


As for batteries - periodic equalizing charge at 15.4-15.7 per link of two batteries does bring SG up. Started at around 1210 initially and up to 1250-1260 on some batteries now. Batteries are getting better "run time" on a 60W galogen lamp, and also starting to better accept charge. But it is a stinky job in all senses


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

I, too, have been surprised how expensive a thick piece of metal is. Some have found tube or pipe about the right diameter. My solution was to ring roll a flat piece of metal into a hoop: http://www.geocities.com/david_dymaxion/Adaptor/adaptor.html I don't know if you can ring roll aluminum, but if you can a local machine shop could do that for you.

If you keep the clutch, your adapter plate needs to be an accurate thickness to preserve spacing so the clutch doesn't slip or fail to release. Most folks do this by carefully preserving the distance from the cluth/tranny interface to the flywheel face, sometimes called the "magic number." This distance is preserved by making the adapter the right depth.


Stunt Driver said:


> ... looking for cheap aluminum plate to get adapter plate done.
> 
> I was surprised by prices - Reliance Metal quoted $182 for 3/4 thick 17''x17'' aluminum. Is that normal? And how thick really adapter plate needs to be?
> ...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> So did 10 degrees advance just in case, but should be able to adjust it later when driving too, there is just no good handle to move brush ring around.


I don't think there is any benefit to advancing the brushes when running 48 volts, and in fact you might lose some low end torque by doing so.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

many thanks for comment on brush advancement - will keep in mind, and adjust at test drive


As for plate - I'll have plate and spacer ring to keep the right distance - 2" total. Just trying to save on plate (longer round stock is much cheaper than thick plate)

So i'm trying to keep plate thickness to the minimum (1/2" i think) and will have 1 1/2" ring to keep total distance to 2". In this case I keep all the dimentions for clutch.


But would go to 1/4 thick, since I have that piece, just not sure it will hold. 
So would 1/4 or 1/2 thick plate hold 150 pound motor without bending?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't know if I'd trust 1/4 aluminum to hold 150lbs of motor, plus motor torque, plus road bumps.


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## kek_63 (Apr 20, 2008)

Is the adapter carrying the full weight and torque of the motor? Or is it just going to locate and fasten the motor to the transmission with the weight and torque supported by other motor mounts?

I don't think that you should ever use alum plate thinner than 3/8" for an adapter - 3/4" minimum if it is the only mount.

If you are going to be welding pipe and plate together for an adapter why not make it out of steel? 

My $0.02
Keith


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

The problem is there are too many unknown variables. The thickness of the plate depends on a lot of other factors. Many drag race cars use plate around that size. They have a .250-inch aluminum front plate; then a .90-inch steel, to .250-inch aluminum mid-plate between the engine and transmission, and a rear transmission mount/frame crossmember (usually tubular steel). The twisting force that a .250-inch plate can stand, when designed right, is pretty substantial.

The distances from the motor to the frame, the attachments methods at the frame, etc. All that counts. Most of the e-motor adapters are really thick because you have to space the motor's output shaft far enough away to clear the transmission input shaft.

I'm not necessarily advocating a thin adapter plate. I'm saying it needs to be properly designed for what it has to do.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Good points. Since it won't/shouldn't be the only thing supporting the motor 1/4 inch would work if you can get the proper spacing.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I will sure put rear mount on motor, but would like to have some buffer - at least be sure that plate doesn't bend while I hoist assembly up in the air and to the car. Plus rear mount can't be ideal - misses happen.

Will be targeting to 0.5 in

Steel option would be ok, bu too hard to work on (drill/mill). At least with my lack of tools.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I hope you have enough tools to make a very accurate adapter plate. You can't afford to be off center with your adapter, as one individual found out when his motor shaft was sheared off from being stressed by a misaligned adapter plate.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

That is my concern too.
Centering will be done by placing transmission on top of assembly of motor, spacer and adapter plate and manually centering it. Once centered - fix by clamps and drill holes.
Plan to use flywheel with clutch disk mounted as centering device.

Is there a better recipe?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

That sounds reasonable, and since you are keeping the clutch you have less of a need for perfect alignment. There are a few threads here on adapter plates, and some videos on youtube that might give you some tips. I chickened out and bought my adapter and coupler since I went clutchless.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Finally got some material at fraction of commercial cost. Treasure location is the metal scrap yard.

1" thick, 34"x20". 68 pounds = 68 bucks.

Also came up with alternative centering idea - will manufacture alingment (temporary) hub to fit tight on tranny shaft and into hole on adapter plate - this way opening in adapter plate will be perfectly centered. Motor will allign to the same opening thru spacer ring, also manufactured on lathe. May be a bit more of material waste, but for a good reason


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> Finally got some material at fraction of commercial cost. Treasure location is the metal scrap yard.
> 
> 1" thick, 34"x20". 68 pounds = 68 bucks.
> 
> Also came up with alternative centering idea - will manufacture alingment (temporary) hub to fit tight on tranny shaft and into hole on adapter plate - this way opening in adapter plate will be perfectly centered. Motor will allign to the same opening thru spacer ring, also manufactured on lathe. May be a bit more of material waste, but for a good reason


Good find.
I also have a 'pet' scrap metal yard where I buy and sell metal. I will be getting the guy to look out for a slab of ali like that too.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

In order to aligh shafts perfectly - decided to measure tranny face on the mill, to machine adapter plate using measurements, so centering will be done by measurements, instead of "just by how it looks" (great thanks to Mark D. for this help)

The biggest question on my mind now - do I have to keep large nut in place to hold coupler on motor shaft, or it won't slide out anyway?
Nut adds alot of space and complexity...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What coupler design are you using? You need some way to lock the coupler to the motor shaft.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I have splined hub, which will be bolted directly to factory flywheel (pictures of both up the thread). And I see release bearing pushing on clutch assembly often, but no force to pull hub+flywheel assembly away from motor shaft.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The problem I see with this type of setup is the motor hub can slide along the motor shaft and possibly wear the splines and vibrate. I think you need some way to positively lock the motor hub to the motor shaft.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Splined hub fits nice and tide, and presses against bearing, but I agree with your concern.

Do you think a bolt like that will help? 
hub has threads and holds the bolt.
shaft will have 3-4 mm deep hole for bolt to go in, not too deep so shaft is not weakened.
thread locker used on bolt to prevent from unscrewing. Or maybe aircraft wire put thru the bolt's head


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Could you use heating to shrink the flange to a tight fit before you machine it and then heat shrink it on to the shaft before bolting the flywheel to it?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Since splines are there, and I'm not doing anything with them - there is only a 1/4 inch long part that I will machine - inside of the hub, to make it fit all the way and press against the bearing. 
(picture has hub put on all the way it goes now).

So heating is a good idea, but technicallly - doesn't 100% prevent hub+flywheel assembly from sliding out. So I think a small bolt will prevent it from starting to slide because of possible vibration or anything


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Could you drill and tap the end of the motor shaft like this and use a small bolt and washer to hold the coupler on?
http://toddperkinsdesign.com/images/inhaler/forums/buildpics/007.jpg


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I broke my head while was trying to keep all dimentions in it. I need to make whole assembly as short as possible, or it will run into craddle.

So I had to quickly learn ProE and did a model there.

Attached x-section 1 - nut_on_shaft design (as was on forklift). Nicely fixed, but creates complexity, need to cut tranny shaft end, create two additional spacers AND it makes motor end face to be 19.7" from transmission face, which may require craddle welding work. 3 needed spacers are not shown.
x-section 2 - pin (bolt) in shaft (to prevent sliding). Easier, no tranny mod, overall lenght is 19" which should fit.

Now I just have to convince myself on using that tiny bolt to fix hub from sliding.


Any advise/critics are welcome!


ps. I know I'm in the very beginning of my journey, but I hope to finish this by 3-1-10.
Didn't pull engine yet, but I have driven the donor for a while, fixing brakes and de-stinking the carpet, and I think it's ready.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*Adapter plate ready!*

First labor-intensive part completed!

Adapter plate ready. It has two 10mm pins pressed in that allign with existing transmission guide holes - this fixes plate in exactly the same spot every time it's installed.
Main mounting holes are drilled to allow bolts go in freely (didn't bother doing threads), and pin holes - drilled 0.1mm under (reamed them to have perfect hole in exact location). Then with a bit of oil have pressed pins in using vise.
I had to take transmission apart to take precise measurements, so whole transmisison was a price to pay

don't get confused by extra threaded holes in the photo - plate was a used one.
It's my first milling experience, thanks to Mark D. for guidance - so forgive me the not-so-great cosmetic view, this was purely a hand work, not CNC. With getting used to mill and tools - took me 10 hours total to machine this one out of aluminum plate, with majority of it - setting up for and doing the precise measurements on bellhousing.

Also attaching measurements (0.001" accuracy) of all mounting holes, where 0;0 is the shaft location. I think Fiero shares transmission with many other GM cars, so hope it will be usefull for some one. If you have milling machine - just drill matching diameter holes at those coordinates, and plate will attach perfectly and centered to transmission.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice work!


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Very nice! Open source too - the way life should be...


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: Adapter plate ready!*

Awesome! It's great you made and shared your drawings, and even better getting your hands oily and making the part!


Stunt Driver said:


> First labor-intensive part completed!
> 
> Adapter plate ready. It has two 10mm pins that allign with tranny guide holes - it fixes plate in exactly the same spot every time it's installed.
> Main mounting holes are drilled to allow bolts go in freely (didn't bother doing threads), and pin holes - drilled 0.1mm under (reamed them to have perfect hole in exact location). Then with a bit of oil have pressed pins in using vise.
> ...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That's good stuff. I would have been so tempted to finish off the engine turning to get a nice neat covering of circles on the visible parts of the plate.

I am going to have to work all that out for my one too.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Appreciate comments! Hope it will also help some newby.

As for circles and look - trick is that part has to be clamped and that mill that I use is not so large to handle 17"x17" plate, so I have to move head (to cover back to forth) and move clamps to get edges done (left to right). But I noticed if I do that - i'd loose accuracy by 0.01" or so. And for the sake of ideal allingment - decided to sacrifice circle pattern That is why you see two patterns - first one was done for whe whole part, but came out not perfect after thickness measurements. So I did second time around - just the inner part, wehere motor will mount. It looks different, but is perfectly parallel to bottom surface.
And maybe real PRO could do it better - but it's my first experience, and if I did it - any one can! Just need a mill to use.



Today I have finally parked my car and pulled engine out. Have couple guys looking for parts like starter or injector, so I'll probably make 20-50 bucks back, but expect to scrap most of engine. I just need a spacer, and DC motor is ready to snap in place!

I pulled only engine out, didn't take off cradle or transmission - this way it only took me 3 hours to pull engine from start, which makes me happy - I want to finish quick. 2.5 engine comes out OK if alternator removed with mount. Oil filter would be nice to remove, but I kept mine to keep job cleaner.

Next stage - would be cleaning motor bay, and probably refreshing paint to make it look nice. Not sure of best way to do it - probably pressurewashing?

ps Second picture called: "Replacement and to be replaced"


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I pulled mine out the top too, took me longer than 3 because I had some bolt issues, plus I tried to get it out with the alternator still on it, which didn't happen. I sprayed engine degreaser on everything then pressure washed it.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Thanks to my supporting wife - much has happenned over this week and rainy weekend.

Used up 3 cans of aerosol engine cleaner on motor bay - old ICE was leaking oil and made a big mess. All isolation had to go too.

Decided to go with "threaded pin in shaft" design for ease of manfacture and space. Have finished adapter plate, spacer ring, hub-coupler. 
Hub has threads for pin to twist in, and shaft has matching hole with no threads for -boltpin to fit in tight . After insertion - pin is secured with meachanic's wire against twisting out - to be sure it is in place and not wondering around the flywheel space.

And the final event - snapped motor in the car, with back end resting on 4x2

Ofcourse spinning motor in neutral was not enough, so I hooked up my 14 year old test batteries and fork lift controller for total of 36 (!!!) volts only and was able to make a few runs in my cool-de-sac. Even starting up the slightly inclined driveway was possible, but sure no "high speeds" on 36v

Nevermind the ugly pile of cables, controller and batteries on the car - I just could't go to sleep without test driving almost-ready can. And yes, it is MOVING!

I have first learned such conversion is possibly on may-12 this year, shortly after moving from Russia to US with my job, and have started working on conversion mid July. I am keeping track of time spent - so far it added up to 55 hours. Large portion of that - learning how to use mill and tools that I was allowed to borrow. Ofcourse there is much to do - battery placement, wiring, gauges, controls - but it moves, and it sure feels nice I didn't hook up 12v system, so was browsing thru neighbourhood after dawn line a stells - invisible and quiet 


My next stage - weld battery support frame, counting on using 6V Trojans. Found used 70A stick unit for $40, hoping 70A would be enough for framing. And look for more deep cycle batteries. I'd like to find something used and cheap but still with capacity left. 
Also, have ordered one of these *WWW.WIZBANGPLUS.COM* - will see how much of desulfating it will bring to my 14-year old batts . Did anyone use it? 
I'll be watching individual batteries voltage now on test drives, this has already proven to be interesting: I have 100AH gel battery that I tried to add to setup, but it went negative voltage on high current, with one cell heating up. Before junking it - i'll try to short the bad cell, to turn this 12v battery into 10v for my around-the-house test rides


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just to confirm you used a pin to hold the coupler to the motor shaft?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Good progress. I'm not sure about the hole in the shaft but as you're not running a high power setup it will probably be ok.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*2 Jackbauer* - Yes. It is actually a bolt with no head held by threads in hub (coupler). See earlier 3D models for details.

Hub is splined inside and has very tight fit all by inself. Also there is no force that will pull hub off the shaft. Still to be sure - I used this pin-bolt to prevent hub from starging to slide along the splines. But only splines make sure coupler doesn't twist on the shaft.

*2 JRP3 -* Hole in the slaft is only 0.2" deep. And this is not what transferres torque. Why do you think it will cause trouble if I go to high power? psI wouldn't rely on such solution on non-splined shaft


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

My mistake, I thought the hole was drilled all the way through the shaft.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Question to Fiero EV owners/builders - how do you place LA batteries to fit more of them in accessible location?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't know, I'm using lithium and can fit them all in the trunk  However there is a lot of room, this guy fit 21


> 7 batteries up front 2 batteries in tunnel, 12 batteries in trunk.


 http://www.evalbum.com/525.html
This guy has 18 http://www.evalbum.com/134.html
And of course one of my favorites fit 14 Odyssey 2150's and 2 motors http://www.evalbum.com/1396


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

My car has 20 Trojan T-125 all accessible from the front and back. I have 8 up front and 12 in the back. They are all just above the original equipment and there is still enough room above the batteries. Check out the website for details.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Thanks, and what type of metal you used to do frames? Would 1/8" thick 1.5" L-shaped steel be enough?


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> Thanks, and what type of metal you used to do frames? Would 1/8" thick 1.5" L-shaped steel be enough?


I would say that that would be enough if the frame supported each battery around all four bottom edges.


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

I believe mine is only 1" L bracket, not sure on the thickness, but 1/8th sounds right. If you look at my clean up project you can see just the frame in the car to see its placement.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

As mentioned in the beginning - my goal is to keep this project low cost, and only need 5-8 miles range to get to work and local shops.

Currently have $600 spent for donor and forklift components alltogether with six old 6V trojans. 
To step up to 48V I decided to try one of marine 12V batteries - from Interstate, sold by Costco. I believer they are sold under "Kirkland DC-27" That is 115AH for $71 with excahnge. 
I thought of using MAXX29, but wallmart is another $5 away in driving, and battery is $85.

Warranty on Interstate is 12/36mo. Now, I'm new to this - does this mean I can bring my battery back in 11.5 mo and get new one, with freshly counting warranty?


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> Warranty on Interstate is 12/36mo. Now, I'm new to this - does this mean I can bring my battery back in 11.5 mo and get new one, with freshly counting warranty?


I'm guessing it means up to 12 months full replacement no charge, 12-36 months replacement at pro-rated cost. I doubt you get a fresh warranty, but one of my coworkers claimed he would get a new battery every year free from Costco because the Phoenix heat kept frying his - so maybe you can .

Walmart has a decent warranty on their MAXX29s if the Interstate warranty lets you down.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Took a short, probably 1-mile ride yesterday with new battery added. Clearly my old Trojans are no good.... while voltage on new 12v Interstate didn't drop noticably (still showed 12.7 after car was parked again) and during 150A load voltage only went down to 11.5v. However I am not giving up - desulfator is being shipped my way, i'll play around with it to proove desulfating wrong or right.

I know most of EVers prefer to use true deep cycles, but they are 2x the cost for nearly the same capacity. For miniman investment - I will go wtih marine batts, and looks like for at least for 2-3 years I'll be ok (including one free warranty swap in 11mo). Plan to put 4 of them in a car for 6-8 miles range. I also like that they are lighter and easier to carry around than trojans (50 pounds). And total weight of installation is very reasonable. In future I may add second string in front trunk to double the milege. That is all while I stay within 48v. And will keep hoping for lottery win to sponsor LiFePo

ps. while voltage stayed above 40v - acceleration was very decent in 1st gear. Clearly I'll use the clutch to shift quickly and drive as normal car. However all my way to work goes thru neighbourhood roads - would be stupid to get a speeding ticket in 25 zone on 48v EV
I am jumping up and down from excitement here - is it really going to be usable EV for under $1000 total cost?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Today my slow-electric car was practically put on the road for a trip to office!! 

My forklift motor 48V motor clearly doesn't want to go high RPMs, topping out under load at 2500 somewhere, so shifting is required. Even thou I left clutch in - my master cylinder is broken, so I have to shift clutchless. I was able to up shift and down shift without any cracking sounds from tranny, but it does take LONG. So I'm happy I have clutch.

Also when I'll fix batteries (by replacing or desulphating) - I hope for some additional speed. Right now only new Kirklands are behaving ok - after 5-6 miles they were holding above 10.5 under load, and immediately after parking showed 12.0. Wihle my old trojans fall to 3-3.5 volts under load, even thou after parking they show 6 or above. I am just learning about good battery use practices, so any advice is welcome.

I didn't floor it for the first time, but 20-25 is doable, and I am honestly hoping for 10-15 additional MPHs

While Im happy with new Kirklands so far - I am having second thoughts about not buying MAXX29. So when I'll decide to buy more - I'll get one of MAXX in line with Kirklands to compare. I know mixing batteries like that is not too good of idea, but can't compare them otherwise. Besides, Costco customer service was guaranteeing that refund is possible at any time for any reason, so I may end up returning those, if MAXX is better. And please don't blame me for current coctail mix To be safe I am monitoring weakest battery with individual volt meter

My speedometer works ok after cutting out all the engine harness - just needed to jump one of cut wires to ground and connect speed sensor. Now tachometer is due.

Brakes are good even without power assist since I don't go fast. I tested stopping from 20 MPH and it doesn't have to be better than what I have now. Just takes some leg muscle.

My pot box came out of Hyster forklift too, as well as the whole controller. Can't say it's perfect, but it's FREE

Now thinking of cheap/easy/reliable charging. I could buy Schumacher 2/8/12 amp chargers for $25 each, but I am still thinking about putting charge limiter on laptop power supply - it is free, those power supplies are small and efficient.

Have welded together back motor mount - made it easy to bolt on and off just in case of future motor dismount. my 9" motor is just 1/8" shoft of cradle, but is 1/16 above it, so it could possibly be 3-4 inches longer and resting right on top of cradle without any mount at all - note to future Fiero EVers . Mine was 17.2" face to back plus 1.8" of spacer+adapter plate.



I would need to get this registered now, and not sure what's next: called DMV and lady said I have to pass some safety check first - what is this??? Anyone done it?
I called the given number, but no one has a clue what is this about....


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You will probably prematurely kill the newer battery by running it with the older ones. When the controller demands voltage it has to come from somewhere, if the old ones aren't up to it the new one will give all it can. I'd really try to get some new ones in there soon.
The laptop power supplies won't give you any decent amperage, 3 amps will take a loooong time to fully charge.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

As for the inspection you should probably at least secure the batteries and cover all electrical connections. Chances are whoever will approve this won't really have any idea what's going on so as long as it doesn't look scary to them it will probably pass. Don't know the actual regulations, maybe it's more involved than that.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Agree on old-vs new batteries, but that doesn't worry me too much as long as I have warranty running But I am thinking of getting two Maxx29 in line with Kirklands. And possibly moving old batts in a second parallel link out in the front trunk.

As for power supply - it is rated for 7.4A and gives out 8.5, so I wouldn't complain Infact, whenever I have time - I'd prefer to use 2A charge, as I believe slower charge helps to restore capacity.

So laptop power supplies are powerfull enogh, but since I don't have a good way to stop charging once done, and overcharching new batteries would be a terrible thing to do - I have just ordered 4 Schumacher 2-6-12A automatic chargers at @25 a piece. They have digital voltage indicator - definitely helps to have.
Also front control board connects by 5 wires, so could be moved inside the car if enough space there - even to monitor individual voltages on the move. I figured out $25 for whole charger is ok, since individual voltmeters are $10. And I get automatic balancing.
Another nice thing about 12A Schumi chargers (compared to their 6A) - you can literally cut off half of body, since it's emty and only stores cables. Then chargers will fit all in small space. And they are very lightweight.

I'll be still working on Zener diode-relay-laptor power chargers for future, but couldn't wait to start using the car now


Also, need help here: my older Trojans even thou seem fully charged (were run shortly after been on 8A charge for 25 hours) - don't reach 15V per two for the automatic charger to shut down. Is this something that can happen to large LAs, or is it problem of old batteries?
At the same time I hear them lightly boiling very early under 8A charge, and they get wamr, while smaller Kirkland's from Interstate - don't.


ps Tried tach today - needle does move is 9v battery conencted to it, so I guess proximity sensor and two protruding bolts should run it.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Old batteries, higher internal resistance, generate excess heat instead of accepting a charge.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Do you have any rubber mounting on that new motor mount? It may be worth thinking about to allow a little chassis flex and transmission movement to happen without stressing the motor end case or the chassis mounting points.

Looking good though.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I was thinking about this (meaning motor mount), but didn't come up with quick-easy mounts. However - back end is not fixed to cradle - it is just laying down flat. And if I rev motor too fast - it allows motor to twist a bit, as much as transmittion rubber paddings allow. Not sure if it's bad or good thing. Maybe if I fins some rubber bushings to bolt it to cradle - it would be nice.


RECEIVED REGISTRATION TODAY! EVs are tooo unusual in Oregon so far, and no inspection or safety check was required. DEQ was a requirement since I live in Portland metro area, but personell was stumped since there is nothing they can feed in tester, so manager on duty printed me a letter that "car is converted to electric drive and exempt from DEQ testing". That was enough for DMV, and I have my temporary registration card.


As for old batteries - I think they are getting better with use. And I have put desulfator on half of them. For now I only need them to perform same as 115AH marine batt I have. Just don't want to invest too much in led now, with LiFePo getting so affordable. It is very possible than in a year from now I will get $2000 together for 72v 100AH LiFe pack, $600 for a proper controller and $320 for BMS. And will return Kirkland's to Costco for a full refund. But by that time I may be looking to build bigger car as well, so - you never know


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Well done on getting the registration.
I hope mine goes as smoothly when the time comes.


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## bazou (Sep 11, 2009)

Stunt Driver said:


> I was thinking about this (meaning motor mount), but didn't come up with quick-easy mounts. However - back end is not fixed to cradle - it is just laying down flat. And if I rev motor too fast - it allows motor to twist a bit, as much as transmittion rubber paddings allow. Not sure if it's bad or good thing. Maybe if I fins some rubber bushings to bolt it to cradle - it would be nice.
> 
> 
> RECEIVED REGISTRATION TODAY! EVs are tooo unusual in Oregon so far, and no inspection or safety check was required. DEQ was a requirement since I live in Portland metro area, but personell was stumped since there is nothing they can feed in tester, so manager on duty printed me a letter that "car is converted to electric drive and exempt from DEQ testing". That was enough for DMV, and I have my temporary registration card.
> ...


Well done, enjoy your car!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> I was thinking about this (meaning motor mount), but didn't come up with quick-easy mounts. However - back end is not fixed to cradle - it is just laying down flat. And if I rev motor too fast - it allows motor to twist a bit, as much as transmittion rubber paddings allow. Not sure if it's bad or good thing. Maybe if I fins some rubber bushings to bolt it to cradle - it would be nice.


You're putting all the load in the transmission mount which might cause the bushings to fail. I'd try to find a way to mount the end of the motor. I was able to use the original mount bushing.









Still need to weld on a piece to catch the other bolt hole.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I have to counter say that your mount is working beyond desinged load too - bushing is about 2 inch and you expect it to resist all the twisting forces from motor. Even 0.2 inch movement on the back end bushing will result in full 1.5-2 inch movement possible in transmission bushings, since they are further away from axle. 
Ideally you'd need a second mount on top of motor.

In my case I'll look for some rubber paddings to put under the base of yellow mount and bolt it to cradle. Due to wide mount base and hard attach to motor - it should perfectly handle the twist. I just don't want to restrict flex at all.

Still have to say you got easy mount there! But my motor is noticably longer. How many volts and KW is yours?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

After initial driving, seems like speed will top out at 35mph, which isn't too bad for $600 conversion, but I need some more mph here.

After reading on tread of drue DIYers trying to make cheap controller http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/non-pwm-controller-discussion-27537p5.html
I decided to exploit the same idea, so will be getting more batteries today and wiring them up like on schematics attached. Red circle is what i'll be adding, and everything else is what I have from forklift.
Control board is only rated for 48v, and I need to keep it at 48v as it's used for slow driving and light acceleration. So by relays (I have two 3 contact relays with common NO rail) I will insert ither one of two 12V batteries past the control board power supply point and only when 1A contactor is engaged. These batteries don't have to be as good/large and will only be used to get additional MPH. So when needed I should be able to bump voltage to 72V for acceleration or short time cruising.

My new amp meter hasn't arrive yet, so I can't tell how many amps to expect at 35mph and above. Can anyone tell?


ps ALso I will play with brush advance angle, just need to get tachometer working first so it's easier to monitor performance


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> I have to counter say that your mount is working beyond desinged load too - bushing is about 2 inch and you expect it to resist all the twisting forces from motor. Even 0.2 inch movement on the back end bushing will result in full 1.5-2 inch movement possible in transmission bushings, since they are further away from axle.
> Ideally you'd need a second mount on top of motor.


Not sure why you think my setup is beyond design load, it's the factory bushing that the factory mount is attached to and works in conjunction with the transaxle mount. I'm using a 115 volt 550 amp AC system, about 45 hp.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

reason I say so is because of top mount used for ICE. Attached picture to illustrate. Motor is trying to wtist around it's shaft. ICE was held in two points.

Mine has much of the same problem.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is a fair point about the mount but it also depends on where the other mounts are.

On my MR2 there are three mounts on the transmission, one at the end carrying the weight of the transmission end of the assembly, one at the front and one at the back. The front and back ones resist the driving torque while a single engine mount just supports the weight of the engine/motor end of things.

If the transmission doesn't have two mounts positioned to resist the driving torque then an additional one may be placed above the single engine/motor mount to do the same job. Alternatively it could be placed over the transmission adaptor plate.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The transmission has two mounts spaced pretty far apart that should resist the rotational torque, and the motor mount will keep the motor from jumping around as well as provide some torque dampening. I do see what you are talking about with the torque arm and I might add something if I see some movement.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

can't tell how much, but two transmission mounts allow movement on start. It may be ok, just hope they don't wear out. It looks like one more attach point, opposite of motor end mount would be nice to have - just like it was done for ICE


I have purchased 2 MAXX29 yesterday, $85 a piece, so starting my comparision test now. 
Wallmart person was telling that warranty is 100% 3 year exchange, but must be mistaken as it says 18 mo free, and 6 more pro rated.
First 2 mile drive this morning to work showed that idle voltage on MAXX dropped to 12.2 after drive, while Kirklands kept it at 12.5. I guess batteries have to brake in, otherwise they are no better than Costco's Kirkland by Interstate.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I have put in two extra 3-point contactors, to be able to insert 4 old Trojans in power chain past controller. While keeping forklift controller for stop and go part of driving - I now have 2 extra booster stesp, of 7-9 volts (the most two of trojans can give under load). I have routed control voltage off 1A contactor, so boost is only possible when controlelr itself is shut and all current gues direct thru 1A contactor. Torgue jump is sensible, but not something of discomfort even if 15 volts are added at the same time, so I will be looking for twice more booster packs. I have monitored voltage drop on contactors+cables - the most I've seen at acceleration is 0.3 volts. Acceptable sacrifice. Car is able to go up to 35MPH reasonably quick now, but I didn't push it faster yet. 

This is the BEST IMPROVEMENT while at $0 cost . Can't say it's very convinient to have two extra switches to operate, so will be looking for ways to integrate into 1A concator control with some delay. ALso I will be looking at more batteries now to stuff up in front compartment. So far all my 8 batteries are in the back.

Also, the MAXX29's capacity is no magic yet, compared to Costco's 115AH. Still waiting.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*BLIND without gages*

WARNING to newbies using electronic gauges: it may not be the case for new motors, but definitely can happen to older ones - small leak from field wiring to motor body.


In my case it is less than 20 uA, but enough to read full pack voltage across from pack (+) to the car body. 
Electronic gauges require isolated power, and car aux battery - does not work because of above. In my case capacitor on gauge blew up in my hands, luckly it was a small one so I still have my fingers And second gause just passed away silintly.
I am ordering new gauses now ($10 a piece) and isolated power supplies (another $14 for two). Now much of the loss, but a sad one.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: BLIND without gages*



Stunt Driver said:


> WARNING to newbies using electronic gauges: it may not be the case for new motors, but definitely can happen to older ones - small leak from field wiring to motor body.
> 
> 
> In my case it is less than 20 uA, but enough to read full pack voltage across from pack (+) to the car body.
> ...


yup.. found this out myself after two sets of gauges popped! The first set two sets came from a supplier who did not mention anything about IPS in his instructions. When I ordered third set from a different vendor- voila! Clear instructions to use ISP! They've worked fine since install.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Update: have expanded Fiero's trunk to fit 4 trojans in the bottom part and keep much space usable as a trunk (if batteries covered). Have cut alont the bottom, bent wall out and welded new bottom in. Exaust sytsem used to be behind the wall that was bent.
Rear suspension is holding up, but looks like 8 batteries is the most it can handle. Springs aren't compressed all the way, but almost there.

Have to say that booster pack does give needed performance, very happy there.

Another achievement - I have installed my "balancing charger system"! Have sawed chargers in half (loosing cable management compartment) and put them all the inside of trunk lid. It is very convinient to start the charge now - I keep extension cord in trunk anyway, so have to open it every time. Once plugged in - chargers show current voltage on respective batteries, that's handy. If car is in gear, I can pull on pot box just a little to give some load to the batteries and see if any particular one feels worse than others.

Charger_inside picture attached. You see it's easy to move control board out, but I just didn't feel like it yet. However, with small 12->110V inverter it would be possible to power up chargers so they will show individual battery voltage when driving. Also starting and controlling charge then can be done from inside. Actual charger boards then can be combined in 20x20x4" box. Very lighteight as well. Each display module has 10 contacts, so could possibly be moved out separately, as it's much more compact.


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## BHall (Aug 1, 2007)

Looks like good and fun progress Stunt Driver! Those charger are intriguing. I wonder what it would take to modify one of those to put out 24 or even 48 volts. How much current does each one pull from the 120VAC? Your last pick shows a kill-a-watt so you do know 

I hope to be working on my rear battery racks this Sunday. I already have the front racks for eight completed and now I have to find a way to cram ten more in the rear. I can get four in the lower part of the trunk (cutting the front wall like you did). I am gong to try to get four more in front of those pretty much in the middle of where the wall between the trunk and the engine compartment used to be. And then two more on the upper sides of the trunk (will probably have to notch the wheel well for these two.)

Brian


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

You can get 12 batteries into the back of the Fiero. Thats how many 6 volts I got into the back of mine. I have pictures on my website. Once you get that many batteries into the Fiero, the suspension will have to be upgraded to handle that much weight.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*BHall* - I think modifying those chargers won't worth it. Whole charging algorithm is based upon precise sensing of voltage, and if you'll mess it up - might as well build your own. At 8 amp setting in the beginning they draw 140 W each out of the wall. Hard to calculate efficiency, as they control current intelligently, and it's not a fact it is exactly 8 amps.
At idle they draw 8 watts, so at least that is a loss.


Have finished my gauge installation! Attaching some "in progress" pictures, and how it looks at the end. Except LCD ones, I have added standard analog voltmeter to control aux battery. Since I only use lights and seat warmer - it lasts 5-6 times the traction pack.

I am very pleased with how dash looks - very little deviation from factory look, and very easy to read. I really dislike those huge analog gauges ev-suppliers sell in kits, which have to be installed on top of everything. Be creative! Find just the right spot to install gauges nicely! It is what people check out inside the car!


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

And one more update - I have returned Kirkland batteries to Costco, and purchased MAXX29 from wallmart. For only $15 more they last noticably longer.
I think my rear brakes don't release all the way, eating power, but even now I get 10 miles till 50% discharge. Enough for local shopping here.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Nice dash layout.

How different is it from the original? Do you have before photos?

I would be happy to just change the fuel guage for an analogue volt meter and then have a digital display on the centre console, but only as I am too lazy to completely rebuild the dash panel.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I wouldn't say it's complete rebuild - just need to cut opening in the metal plate so gauges fit in, and cut gauges themselves a bit. I used metal angle grinder, and all took me a few hours. Glass and outer grill remain unchanged. I have used oil pressure, fuel level, check_engine and temp wires coming in dash to route needed voltages into the dash, and wired cauges inside dash, so all original connectors can be still used. Isolated power supply placed inside the dash, and 12v taken from dash as well.

Just added picture of how it used to look to previous post


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Looks like it was an easy dash to modify for digital displays.

Mine looks like this one but with a battery volt meter in the small centre dial where the turbo gauge is. Also mine has a tiny aftermarket wheel so I can't see all the dials to photograph it never mind drive it. That will have to be changed.








The whole display is on one circuit board fixed to the back of the plastics so I'm not sure how much I can cut away without the whole thing failing.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

What is the diameter of smaller side gauges (fuel and temp)? I think even my LCDs are almost as high. You'll have to get inside to see, but you need less than 1" of depth to mount it, and in your case - I'd cut hole and insert it to the panel, so decorative frame covers the rough edges. You may have a bit of old gauge circle howing from underneath, but should be nice anyway. 
I'm sure there is some space from face of dash to printed board, so you may not need to cut board (i didn't cut mine).


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I've just remembered, when I bought the car there was a load of spares with it. There was a spare dash in with the spares. I shall dig it out and have a proper look. Not sure why there was a spare dash though.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Have done test run today to measure range and W/mile. Speeds up to 30mph.

Was able to drive 10.7 mile untill overal voltage started sagging below 42 volts under ~100A loads. Overnight charge showed 4.2kWh drawn from wall, which is 360Wh/mile.

Is it way too bad?


I'm not sure about affect of brush advancement - I have done ~4 degrees, but my voltage is only 48 to 68 normally (with booster pack connected thru contactor). According to Jim Husted - almost no advance needed, but could 4 degrees do harm?


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

360 Wh/m is actually pretty decent. Especially on only 48 volts. I figured with the higher amp draws from a 48 volt system, it would be a lot higher.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> What is the diameter of smaller side gauges (fuel and temp)? I think even my LCDs are almost as high. You'll have to get inside to see, but you need less than 1" of depth to mount it, and in your case - I'd cut hole and insert it to the panel, so decorative frame covers the rough edges. You may have a bit of old gauge circle howing from underneath, but should be nice anyway.
> I'm sure there is some space from face of dash to printed board, so you may not need to cut board (i didn't cut mine).


I have had the spare dash apart, I needn't have been worried.
Like you said, there is space behind them and the circuit board is flexible so I can just fold/roll it out of the way. The holes can be cut larger too and tehre are no end of 'posey dressy up' bits on Ebay to cover up mistakes.
Thanks.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> I'm not sure about affect of brush advancement - I have done ~4 degrees, but my voltage is only 48 to 68 normally (with booster pack connected thru contactor). According to Jim Husted - almost no advance needed, but could 4 degrees do harm?


You might be losing some low end torque, I don't think you'll gain anything, but 4 degrees is so small I don't know if you'd notice either way. Motors operating at their design voltage don't need advancing.


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## BHall (Aug 1, 2007)

Are you using one of these to power your volt/amp meters? 

http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-DC-Converter...ash=item3a533cb280&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

I didn't at first and learned the hard way by blowing up my volt meter. Tried to power it with the 12v system and then measure the same, not a good combination.

Brian


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Yes, exactly this dual output part from Asia Engineer. Even thou they don't officially combine shipping - I asked for a discount on larger order, and was able to save a buck per part. No problems now.

*Zemmo* - 48 volt system actually draws less amps at acceleration, but performance is sluggish. I see amps jump from 150 to 190 when I plug my booster pack in (~20 volts), and car gets a good push. But for test run I didn't use the pack, and was limited to 30mph. That is why i was expecting to have lower wh/m. I just noticed my rear brake pistons don't let go all the way, at least when I release my e-brake, so there may be some loss. Just wonder if I should adjust my brushes back for better results as well.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Got impatient and ordered this proximity switch http://www.smcworld.com/2002/bp_e/pdf/2503_035.pdf
D-F7NV

But it requires magnet to trigger it. Now I am thinking of how to put two magnets on shaft to run tachometer.

ALso noticed MAXX batteries aren't as balanced as you would wish - two run out quicker than other two. But they are 2 weeks apart in purchase and use. I'll keep using and see what happens. Chargers seem to equalize batts at every charge, good it is or bad, but manufacturer recommends it.

Also waiting for 7245 Alltrax controller to ship - used @ 200, as long as it works - should be a good deal. Will get two more MAXX batts then.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*hm...*

Noticed for a few times now - if I charge floodies and let car sit for 2 days - I get half the range out of them. Runs much better if driven right after charge. 

Is this something normal for floodies?


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## Zemmo (Sep 13, 2007)

Thats a sign of old batteries. The internal resistance is going up and it is self discharging faster. Thats the problems with my batteries now in my Fiero. After a week of sitting, it has drained its self to 50% from just sitting there.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Interesting, but mine are brand new MAXX29 from Wallmart !!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

What's the voltage after sitting? Maybe something is draining the pack?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

maybe the dc-dc convertor? they usually burn some watts at rest.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I have let almost fully charged car sit for a week, and will check when back from east coast. Ashamely didn't notice voltage last time.

I got no DC converter, and contactor disconnects battery link when off. Just wonder is flooded batts from wallmart aren't as good anymore


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Stunt Driver said:


> I have let almost fully charged car sit for a week, and will check when back from east coast. Ashamely didn't notice voltage last time.
> 
> I got no DC converter, and contactor disconnects battery link when off. Just wonder is flooded batts from wallmart aren't as good anymore


I'm not sure this post is of any relevance, but, for what it's worth, one of the batteries in my pack is a Wal-Mart Maxx-29 dated August '06 and it's one of the better batteries in my pack: holds a good charge. It's an Exide one....


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Check the water levels in the batteries. Does the charger actually equalize the batteries, at 15.5-15.6 volts?

I just replaced my MAXX29 pack under warranty due to range decrease after 1,000 miles of use, but it turns out I needed to Equalize them at about 15.5-15.6 volts every 15 cycles. I just looked at my data, and I did an equalization charge after 50 miles of use when I installed my K&W BC-20, but have since them. My data sheet shows an immediate increase in range for another 900 miles before things went icky and I replaced instead of equalizing. My Bad.

I still have one MAXX29 left over that I am going to do some equalization tests on and see if I can have repeatable results.


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

Nice project, Stunt Driver. Way to do it on a budget, AND work around some limitations with creative engineering!

Great to see another 48 volt conversion - at least in the beginning. Your "boost pack" for added power when needed is an idea I've mulled over as well.



Zemmo said:


> 360 Wh/m is actually pretty decent. Especially on only 48 volts. I figured with the higher amp draws from a 48 volt system, it would be a lot higher.


FYI: my "lifetime" energy use is 288 Wh / mile. That's measured at the wall (Kill-a-watt), from data for 70 charge cycles, and includes summer and winter driving (more summer than winter, though). My summer average this year is 255 Wh/mi. 

(Note: I drive very conservatively and choose lightly travelled routes where I can accelerate gently and coast towards stops as much as possible where it doesn't affect other drivers.)

Definitely address the brake drag issue, if you haven't already. It'll make a noticeable improvement in range & economy. Make sure the tires are properly inflated as well!


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Thanks for comments, Forkenswift, I sure was inspired by lowcost converstions including yours

Shumacher chargers do equalization every charge, no matter like it or not. I am afraid it may be too much of equalization, and so not good, any thoughts?
Batteries are fresh, and I did check water levels. They are by Exide as well. Typical discahrge rate during acceleration is ~160A.


Just last week I got lucky on 72V Alltrax from Ebay at $200, and tried this yesterday - definitely ALOT less noise than forklift controller! And nicer takeoff too. And will decrease amps if going to higher voltage. And takes way less space under hood, and lookes nicer, I think i'll stick with it.

I may actually upgrade to 72 or 84 volts now, just need to see how my MAXX behave, and reserve another $240 for batts. However, promised myself and my wife not to invest in this car - so will run used and so nearly free batts to get up the voltage, but will keep weaker batts connected thru contactor, so I can thou them off the driveline when done. 
Unlike my original setup, where used weaker batteries were only connected direct and at higher speeds - in this case with Alltrax controleller - additional voltage will help main battery pack to have easier life (less amps). So I am expecting more range. 


But still, 48V drivable conversion for $700 is real


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> Just last week I got lucky on 72V Alltrax from Ebay at $200, and tried this yesterday - definitely ALOT less noise than forklift! And nicer takeoff too. And takes way less space under hood, and lookes nicer, I think i'll stick with it.


I would have considered 72v also, if I'd found a deal on a 48-72v controller. But then I'd have to re-evaluate the DC-DC converter & charger. Oh and battery weight would become a problem (if sticking with 6v golf cart floodies).



> But still, 48V drivable conversion for $700 is real


Definitely! We were on the road for that much as well (net $ - after selling the leftover stuff).


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

You've done well selling there, i guess you can continue to buy old forklifts, and supply the whole EV community with motors, wires and contactors to make living 

I didn't sell any parts, but have much less of range - didn't have luck finding used but good batteries, so purchased 12v 125AH from wallmart - at least I get warranty on those. 

Honestly, i do find it alot nicer on 72 volts - i can stay within 100A most of the time of neighbourhood driving, which is much easier on batteries. I plan to add 7th battery there, connectable thru relay to keep voltage high after surface charge drained - Alltrax 7245 is good up to 90V, so 7 of 12v batteries would work.
In your case - you can leave DC-DC and such on 48V, and add additional, probably not so good batteries to supply the motor. And i bet dc-dc doesn't suck alot anyway. I don't have any dcdc yet, and do not plan to invest here but have server 48V PSU on hands - may fit that one in.

As for weight - i don't recall if you've done any suspention works - but mine is runnig stock, and with 4 of 12V in the back - I still have very soft ride and whole front trunk empty, possibly ready to host 3-4 batteries without maxing out suspention. With 6 in back suspention maxes out on speedbumps, but still ok. Once/if I get time - will move 3/7 batts to the front for equal weight distr.


ps Noticed you have link to "3 dirt cheap EVs" there, keep my in mind if you'll be doing another round of udpates Cheap cars aren't perfect, but definitely serve the need. I used to heatup my truck just for 2 mile ride - that is alot of cold engine riach fuel emissions, and cost.
Waiting for my plates now, but registration is done.


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

Congratulations Stunt Driver on getting another Fiero EV on the road; you beat me to it.  I've been in China looking for a deal on Lithium Ion batteries and need to get back to work on the car before the winter deep freeze sets in here.


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

Stunt Driver said:


> I didn't sell any parts, but have much less of range - didn't have luck finding used but good batteries, so purchased 12v 125AH from wallmart - at least I get warranty on those.
> 
> Honestly, i do find it alot nicer on 72 volts - i can stay within 100A most of the time of neighbourhood driving, which is much easier on batteries. .


 I couldn't have been in the $500 range for my conversion if it weren't for used batteries. It looks like you already have what you need, but I had good luck at a boat supply store with good used batteries. Hand in hand with that is running 72v- I also wanted to go 48v, but was afraid that running too high amps through my motor would be hard on it and figured going 72v was the best on the motor. Once I got useable batteries running 72v was a no-brainer!


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

i may have overspent, but i wanted to feel safe that at least 48V pack with proper chargers is there, and I can always flip the switch to go back to purely 48v and get home if old junkies die.

Will put together charge limiter and use 8A laptop PSU to charge used batteries, which are added to increase voltage. One shop sells tested good used batts for $25 here, not free but ok. I'll see how much faster/further can I get with adding "free" batts.

I definitely see my main pack feeling better due to lower currents in higher voltage setup


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

Stunt Driver said:


> I didn't sell any parts, but have much less of range - didn't have luck finding used but good batteries


Yes, we definitely lucked out there - twice! Our first pack of used Exides were good for 20 km (in warm weather, conservative driving). Our 2nd pack of used ones is good for 30 km (same conditions).



> i can stay within 100A most of the time of neighbourhood driving, which is much easier on batteries.


I try to keep it under 100 too, but that means I'm probably accelerating and cruising at lower speeds than you are 



> As for weight - i don't recall if you've done any suspention


No. If more 6v batteries were added, it would need stiffer springs in the rear for sure. With 8 6v batteries, it's still within the gross vehicle weight limit. 



> Noticed you have link to "3 dirt cheap EVs" there, keep my in mind if you'll be doing another round of udpates Cheap cars aren't perfect, but definitely serve the need.


Preaching to the choir!  I would definitely add your car if I do a blog update.

Congrats on getting registered.

EDIT: PS - I highly recommend for anyone using an old pack that they also use some kind of battery monitor to avoid murdering the weaklings. EG:


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I agree on device to monitor individual batts, if you are using half-dead ones. ALso, I will be grouping those in 2 parts, and running thru what used to be reversing contactor, so I can disconnect weakened batts in order not to kill them completely. In order to keep myself from going crazy - I spent $340 on 4 new MAXX29 so I always have heatly core as a base, and can add whatever I have on top.

I think of using 25x44mm voltmeters arranged all together on dash somewhere. May not be as compact, but very straight forward design, "no soldering required"  I use one at the moment across contactor to monitor both voltage drop when running just core pack, and added voltage when 1 or 2 strings added.

10 bucks a piece may be a bit high thou, when you'll need 10 of them

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mini...temZ250525891891QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

For ease of monitoring individual batteries, I'd recommend something "graphical" (or analog). Voltages swing so much when driving, it's easier to monitor for "out of bounds" conditions if you're not required to actually _read _& _process _numbers. 

It's simpler to know that "if that light goes out (or comes on)" or "if that needle is on this side of the dial" you have to take corrective action (eg. let up on the accelerator... disconnect a battery, whatever).

Ignoring the above, for super cheap you could always pick up a bunch of $3 digital multimeters.  I hear they're available in the US at that price (Harbour Freight?).


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

ForkenSwift said:


> EDIT: PS - I highly recommend for anyone using an old pack that they also use some kind of battery monitor to avoid murdering the weaklings.


Hmmm, I don't know anyone that fits that description

The Harbor Freight ones are great:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98025

They are not currently on sale, but just keep checking. They go on sale all the time for $2.99.
fishguts also found these on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Blue-LCD-Digita...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0d2d80f0


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

Must have been an earlier post from you where I read about those $3 HF DMM's.

Do you have a pic somewhere of your "battery monitor display"?


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## vpoppv (Jul 27, 2009)

ForkenSwift said:


> Must have been an earlier post from you where I read about those $3 HF DMM's.
> 
> Do you have a pic somewhere of your "battery monitor display"?


 Yeah, I'm pretty proud of actually spending money on something that works (well, those and the chargers anyway)
But the battery monitor board is actual WORK to setup, so it was Ben Nelson who had that. It's post #1180 on his thread.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ro-metro-build-thread-848-118.html#post113922

The other Paul has 'em too. They're like the cheap EV'ers' must have.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

well, nice for testing - wire it to be quick-pluggable, thru some connector, and hide away from people I may buy a few if I see them on sale. But I bet it's possible to get a deal on small voltmeters that I linked for $5 each, if to buy 10, because I see them at different seller @ $6 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-100V-DC-Re...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a026c0538


2 Forkenswift - thinking more, I actually like your display. Compact, and easy enough to read. I am just afraid of heavy soldering.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

FINALLY got my plate and updated registration! Accepting congratulations.

And it does show ELECTRIC in fuel type. (funny because they made mistake in this field initially, by forgetting to update it  )

Next stage - i'll get 3 more of 12 volts in the back, to get full 72v under load, and finally will install heater. Yes, it will take juice, but boy, cold inlet air is not making it a fun ride, even if short rite. And water/propane options are too messy


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Excellent stuff! I bet it feels good to have that 'electric' printed there.


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## electromet (Oct 20, 2009)

Congrats on the new registration. I guess it's official now. So, I should be able to spot your plate on I-5 when I drive through next month, right? Maybe I should just look for an extrordinay smile in passing cars.

Mike


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

getting on highway will take $4000 for me My roundtrip is around Hillsboro airport to work, shops and back. 


working on heater now. Tested on 48 volts - element heats up, but very-very little, less than i'd expect. I guess 72 volts won't give me much more ither... so I would have to invent again - put couple more small cheap 12v batts in series above drive pack just for the heater to get ~100v.

But here is how it will be connected: two relays, two switches, and a thermostat/mode unit reused from heater - will be put under dash in accessible place for two reasons: to be able to select 1500/700w mode, and set thermostat at 70F or so, to keep car warm and not overheat when parked at charging station.
Also simple mechanical timer on AC input - for the same reason, to have car warmed up by time I come out of office.

The only thing i wish i had - air recirculation. That is why I have that 16V power supply connected past thermostat and supplying fan to push hot air inside car, and not 12v from aux battery, so it will shut off when thermostat triggers.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*HEATING SOLUTION* 

Finally, I had enough of cold-cabin driving, and installed heater. It eats 7 amps, providing around of 600W of heat - enough to keep incoming air warm and not to feel discomfort. Seat warmer is still my best friend

But as noted above - I believe to have one key uncommon feature - dual power input, switchable between AC and DC.

*AC input:*
With a flip of a switch I run heater on wall 110v AC, and it runs at full 1300W. This will heat up the whole car in 30 min, and what more important - all air ducting will be heated up too! So when I take off, and run heater on DC at only 600W - I still have enough of heat for comfortable driving. This is especially nice when leaving from office parking after work

*Thermostat:*
Also, I have reused thermostat, putting it under dash on passenger side in accessible location, so I can safely leave car and let it keep constant temperature. since I have no recirculation - thermostat will shut off heater and fan alltogether, so car doesn't get any more cold air in. And 50%/100% power selector is there too. To minimize waste of heat - I have $5 AC timer from HF, set to switch AC input on to heater ~1 hour before I plan to return. This also helps to prevent charging station overload - by the time heater kicks in - car would be almost/completely charged. So heating and charging do not overlap.

*Easy access:*
Fiero seem to have one of the easiest to access location for core - righ from the front trunk compartment. I have sealed cold air inlet so it's possible to shut air intake off, when i'd prefer to keep battery's juice for driving, rather than heating, like long-haul drive to Costco or Winco, where roudtrip distance is on the edge of my traction pack capacity.

*Range is affected?:*
Honestly, hard to tell, but seems like not. It is more affected by cold weather, than by 7A draw.


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

Glad to see someone driving a warm EV now. I sometimes pre-heat the cabin with a hair dryer, but that's about it! 

But the time to put the ForkenSwift away for the winter is coming. Not so much because of the cold, but because of the amount of salt that will be on the roads. Not good for a 17 year old car with thin sheet metal that's already had some rust repair.

*Question*: I see you have your narrow, high pressure space saver spare tire on the front end. Is that because you needed it, or are you experimenting to reduce aerodynamic & rolling resistance?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

I was experimenting with rolling resistance, but didn't find a good way to measure it. Partly because my trip is very short. I feel that steering bacame MUCH easier, which would mean less rolling resistance too. But not a soft ride, and not so nice look for misarable savings. So will be putting normal tires back soon, for appearance reasons mostly. I had two of them in the front.


About heat - preheating from AC does the most good, I agree. It is just very nice to have built-in preheater 
Oregon doesn't have any salt, so I plan on driving car all winter long, parking near charging station at both ends of trip.


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

I found that rolling resistance has a significant impact on the car's range.

I did 2 separate tests: rolling down a hill from a stop, and marking the finishing position with chalk on the road. Multiple runs.

Also I did low speed "coastdown" testing: multiple runs from 40 km/h down to 10, where I used my camera to video tape the speedometer, then used the computer's video player to time the 

See *Test: comparing Firefly vs. ForkenSwift rolling resistance (Goodyear Invicta GL vs. Walmart snow tires)*

My best ever efficiency - 199 wh/mile, measured at the wall - was achieved after switching to the lower rolling resistance tires.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Thank for idea - I just have to find a hill of some sort, and measure it before putting old tires back. Luckly winds aren't something often here. 
My biggest problem is in the rear calipers - they weren't serviced for last 10 years of car sitting under rain, and do a bit of draging. In other words - I have bigger fish to fry, and very little time.... Yet i'm happy it runs to serve my needs !!


By the way, I have added 3 used starting batts for a total of 84 volts, still using Alltrax72v - it is a much nicer to drive car. I will get a few pics to post an update soon after a bit more testing.
Surprising enough - used starting batts at $15 a pop of average capacity aren't much worse than new MAXX29 at $85 plus deposit.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

*CHARGING.*


Still workign on cheap charging utilizing existing 8A/4A compact power supplies.
Finally tried simple $1 scheme suggested in other thread. It works, almost no hysteresis so tuning to right voltage is easy. Transistor doesn't heat up at all.
For those out there like me, looking for simple solutions - attaching a scetch of diagram.

On smaller batts i'll use 4A power supplies, and will set cut off voltage at ~15 somewhere, switching to "float+" charge at ~14.4v for one simple reason - I won't be leaving those on float charge for more than overnight, and 14.4 is the voltage normally supplied to battery in a car.


Transistors were $3 for 50pc off ebay, and any used pot will work. I got some at gizmos surplus at 75c each (should have negotiated, but needed only 3).


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## jackbauer (Jan 12, 2008)

Just thinking out loud here but if those power supplies are isolated (which they almost have to be) Then could they be seriesed to make a pack charger?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

they surely are isolated. But then you'd have to come up with BMS. I solve two problems with this $1.00 solution for my car


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Just want to share how pleased I am with AC-connectable heater: it only takes 0.5kWh to fully heat up cabin and clear windshield, which may not seem like alot, but clearly cheaper and easier to suck it off the grid, than off the batteries. And I keep batteries full. At -7c windshield clears in 2-3 minutes.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Have shot 2 videos, both on You-tube now. Under hood, and driving.
Voice is in russian, but I have added english comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfSJSz5CQs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmewY9b8STE

Have swapped 4 batteries under warranty, as I have unintentionally abused them before I built per-battery voltage monitors.

Get up to 40mph easy now, with up to 13 miles per charge, which is plenty for what I use this car for.
Never got time to make car pretty inside - wires are still loose, no carpets or sound deadening put back, but it is still a great toy!
Got vacuum pump for brake booster, testing and working on installing it now, as my legs are tired of stopping this car from 40mph.


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## wenowhavepower (Dec 24, 2008)

Nice video and very nice dashboard!

Congrats!


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi Stunt driver. Great work on the car. I am amazed how nice a conversion you have made on such a budget. I guess if you are smart enough you can make a nice EV without spending a lot of money.

One question; what panel meters are you using in your dash? (and what company did you purchase them from?) They look good, fit the dash, and are easy to read while driving, unlike my analog gauges. Most panel gauges I've seen run on a 6 or 9V power supply. Are these 12V gauges?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Got mine from seller named ASIA ENGINEER. Not sure on their full ebay name, but if you search for meters - their pictures with name will come up.

They are 12v, but have to be connected thru isolated power supply, or they will blow. And you are right, they are easily readable day or night.


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## mdane (Jun 23, 2010)

Is your controller in the GE "EV" family? EV1, EV100..... We're running one to a sepex motor and it's kind of loud. I know they run at 700 Hz so I'll hear it, but I'm surprised at the level. I'm wondering if maybe something isn't hooked up correctly.

thanks,

Mark


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi StuntDriver. Thanks for the info on the panel meters. Did your Asia Engineers Ammeter come with a small rectangular component labeled "Yaohua DY12S12-1W"? (See picture). If so, what is it and how did you use it? I see no where to plug it in.

Also, the page that came with the meters says that the volt meter and ammeter can not share the same 12V power supply...not only the power supply must be isolated from the metered source, but that the 12V power supplies must be isolated from each other for each meter. How did you do that? I only have one 12V auxillary battery in my car....I guess I could run one meter off the DC-DC convertor and one off the 12V battery, but even they share a common ground.


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## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

CFreeman54 said:


> Hi StuntDriver. Thanks for the info on the panel meters. Did your Asia Engineers Ammeter come with a small rectangular component labeled "Yaohua DY12S12-1W"? (See picture). If so, what is it and how did you use it? I see no where to plug it in.
> 
> Also, the page that came with the meters says that the volt meter and ammeter can not share the same 12V power supply...not only the power supply must be isolated from the metered source, but that the 12V power supplies must be isolated from each other for each meter. How did you do that? I only have one 12V auxillary battery in my car....I guess I could run one meter off the DC-DC convertor and one off the 12V battery, but even they share a common ground.


From the looks and description, the DY12S12-1W you have there is an isolated 1 Watt DC-DC converter (Something like http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/57283/CANDD/NDY1212.html) So if you run the meter off that unit, it will be an "Isolated" supply as the directions require.


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks for the info Anaerin; do you know if all of these DC DC converter isolated power supplies have similar wiring/circuit schematic? The Yaohua DY12S12-1W didn't come with a schematic.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

mdane said:


> Is your controller in the GE "EV" family? EV1, EV100.....


I never found details on that controller - I took it off 48v forklift. Yes, it's loud at takeoff especially.

I was lucky to get used 72V alltrax from ebay and upgrade my voltage - no regrets absolutely! 48v is not enough to drive even semi-comfortably. And my contactor-driven booster was alot of hassle. Allthou it was a drivable car - another $500 for controller and batteries were well worth it.

*2 CFreeman54* -those rectangular boxes are isolated PSUs. Mine meters didn't come with power supplies, and I was stupid enough to test them and blew both. Schematics likely are the same, maybe google will find you exact one to be sure. Seller may also help - they generally are quite responsive.



UPGRADE:
Finally, I have installed vacuum pump for brake booster.
A used unit off VAG car, 50 bucks off ebay.
I did not use reservour, and I do not see any issues. Booster cage keeps enough of vacuum. The only way to deplete vacuum - keep pressing and releasing pedal, and even then once you finished - vacuum will reestablish to good enough level in ~2 seconds.

I have used adjustable Omega pressure switch, which I converted to vacuum. Pressure model was way cheaper, but bought by mistake.
Switch has two parts connected by thread - membrane and 2-throw micro-switch. So NC contact of pressure mode turns to NO contact of vacuum mode, and vice versa.
Switch is installed directly into booster cage - I have driller hole, threaded it, and sealed switch in place with epoxy to prevent even small air leaks.

I have connected pump to radiator fan harness. Kept the same relay, and connected vacuum stiwch to harness of temperature switch of ICE, that drove radiator fan in old days. It is energised with ignition ON, and has proper fuse installed (10A I think).

My mount of vacuum pump is not very fancy, but it's a good quiet unit - I can only hear it when stopped.


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## CFreeman54 (Jan 14, 2009)

StuntDriver: Thanks for the info on the isolated power supplies. I blew my volt meter too, either from un-isolated power or from voltage spike in high voltage system. Strange thing is it was working fine until I installed a resistor/relay between the battery packs to balance voltage. 

So you are using those Yaohua isolated power supply units now? How did you isolate the power supply?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

label on my units is different, but nearly same parts.
The whole function of this little black box - isolate your power, let's just call it "Isolator". So you can hook it up to any 12v source - be it one of your tracktion batts or AUX batt.

You just need to have seaprate isolators for every meter you install. That is what I do.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

yes, power for those little isolated power sources can come from same source. That's what they do, they isolate the power source going to the meter. I did same thing with mine, went through a couple different sets of meters before I figured that out! The first set didn't say they had to be isolated (fortunately, later sets did.) Power in can be shared, then they isolate it and send it out (each separately) to the meters.


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## ThWongs (Sep 4, 2010)

Hi Stunt Driver!

Just finished reading your entire thread (in fact, everything you have written on this forum!) and found it facinating and educational! Many thanks for taking the time to write about and post photo's of the progress. The video's are cool too! 

I wonder how you are charging your batteries now? Did you have much success with the laptop power supplies? I'm looking for something similar... I.E. a very cheap way to charge each battery separately. 

On another subject... What part of Russia do you come from? My wife is interested.  She was born in Vladamir, just outside Moscow.


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

ThWongs - thank for nice words
I am from N.Novgorod, another 200km from Vladimir. So same region.

My laptop power supplies work fine, I only wish I had better circuitry to control voltage. My primitive diode based voltage sagger is dependant on current, and once battery starts to have internal leaks - it may not reach 14.5. I would like to add primitive BMS to control charging, but looking for cheap one as well.

My MAXX29 on other hand are not holding up - 4-5 months and half of capacity is gone. Last time I gone to Wallmart to swap them - I got refund, which is perfect for me actually. 


Got question on PM but can't reply to "hendrik", since he is not accepting messages.
Question was about modifying Omega pressure switch into vacuum


changing switch is very simple - you screw head in a few threads and adjust it to where you need it to tip. Magic is in the electric microswitch itself - it is 2 pole, so instead of Normally Unpressed pressure switch it becomes Normally Pressed vacuum (NO and NC contacts switch).

Since mine was high pressure switch - it is somewhat difficult to adjust, as even small screwing in makes large vacuum difference, but I adjusted by trial and error.

I didn't have gauge, so on practice I found point where vacuum level, provided by pump is berely enough to trip switch, and rolled back just a bit. Works perfect ever since (actually most reliable system in my conversion)


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

Bad news now...

Have returned MAXX29 to Wallmart (wasn't easy) and replaced them with Costco's 115AH. THey seem to last longer, even thou have smaller capacity.

Unfortunately, as I can guess now, I didn't tighten one of the nuts, and it overheated. 
When it melted battery cover - hydrogen exploded.
Then I was stupid enough to try to crawl home with that loose connection, and controller burned up in smoke.

So i'm done for a while. Too cold and too financially tight now. And by spring I may be able to lease Leaf. 

Wondered about your opinion on pictures


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Wow, that's some serious bad luck. Pics would be interesting, though I guess you're worried they could be taken out of context?


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## Stunt Driver (May 14, 2009)

just added pictures. Took me awhile to resize them down

If I look back - it's all my fault - I saw that voltage is sagging on that one battery below normal, but didn't check nuts for 3 days. When it blew at night - i didn't even notice it because it was dark, when I looked under hood, as I was sure it's one of laptop power supplies, and I didn't have flash light. 15 minutes later I was trying to make it home, and then lug melted to a disconnect. And even then I was hoping to make it home with belery any contact on the cable. Ashemed of myself... It's truly better to find rootcause if something happenned, instead of assuming it was nothing....


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## ThWongs (Sep 4, 2010)

WoW! Serious meltdown.

Sorry to hear about your controller too! 

I guess the cloud could still have a silver lining.... Anyone reading this is going to check their connections, so you may have saved some guys a fortune! 

I hope you get sorted and back on the road soon!

P.S. Don't get a leaf! We will miss your posts if you go all "factory built" on us!


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## helluvaengineer96 (Oct 8, 2010)

Stunt Driver....
Great economical EV Fiero, really appreciate you sharing on here.
Is that the Dupont Washington Intel Facility? I worked for Intel in Cola from 2000 to 2006 and visited Dupont a good bit.
I've started on a AC50 Fiero conversion but it won't be near a cool as yours. Just using off the shelf parts not a whole lot of design. Much better to build from scratch, maybe next one.


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## DanielLongstreet (Aug 30, 2012)

Hi Stunt Driver,
I'm just starting a conversion myself and would love to take a look at your car. I live in Hillsboro and work right next to the main library at TriQuint. I'm at the stage where I need to make/find an adapter plate and am curious where you got yours.
Here's a link to my thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/planning-1974-datsun-260z-conversion-78681.html

Thanks,
Daniel


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