# Precautions when moving a car without an engine



## Anaerin (Feb 4, 2009)

Ensure the ends are not going to hit the ground and drag, but that they can turn freely. And make sure your brakes (especially the E-brake) are working AOK. Oh, and always chock the wheels, unless of course all four wheels are off the ground.
As it's not a Ford, and you're taking out the diff too, there's no need to worry about the gears falling out.


----------



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

I've used a piece of stiff wire to span under the drive shaft near the front. In my case there were already holes in the frame for towing and tie-downs, but if not you'll have to improvise.

You might consider getting some wheel dollies.

http://www.etoolcart.com/automotive-wheel-dollies.aspx

If your floor is mostly level and smooth, this makes it much easier to move things around without a big production. You can also make absolutely best use of your space this way.

The bare-bones ones are fine, you don't have to get fancy. Although, the fancy ones are much easier to get on and off.


----------



## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

Depending on how high you can lift the car, you should consider pulling the entire engine/transmission sub frame from the car. This would not allow to roll the car anymore, but it would make removal of the engine and mounting the electric motor a lot easier. The gist of it is that you remove the calipers from the brake discs in the front, undo the steering shaft from the steering box, disconnect the radiator, heater core, electrical harnesses going to the engine, unbolt the 4 bolts or 6 bolts holding up the sub frame, and remove it by lowering it with a jack. It's something to look into, anyway, for anyone doing a FWD conversion.


----------



## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

It is very handy to be able to roll the car in and out of the garage.

I used big plastic zip-ties to hold up the axles. They spin in the plastic without getting scratched up.

I also bagged the ends of the axles to keep out dirt.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

kittydog42 said:


> Depending on how high you can lift the car, you should consider pulling the entire engine/transmission sub frame from the car. This would not allow to roll the car anymore, but it would make removal of the engine and mounting the electric motor a lot easier. The gist of it is that you remove the calipers from the brake discs in the front, undo the steering shaft from the steering box, disconnect the radiator, heater core, electrical harnesses going to the engine, unbolt the 4 bolts or 6 bolts holding up the sub frame, and remove it by lowering it with a jack. It's something to look into, anyway, for anyone doing a FWD conversion.


 
This process, of course does not work too well if the engine and transmission are mounted directly to the unibody.he he he 


Sorry kittydog, just couldn't pass it up.


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Wow this did not take too long.




Anaerin said:


> Ensure the ends are not going to hit the ground and drag, but that they can turn freely. And make sure your brakes (especially the E-brake) are working AOK. Oh, and always chock the wheels, unless of course all four wheels are off the ground.
> As it's not a Ford, and you're taking out the diff too, there's no need to worry about the gears falling out.


E-brake and chocks, good safety sugestions.



1clue said:


> I've used a piece of stiff wire to span under the drive shaft near the front. In my case there were already holes in the frame for towing and tie-downs, but if not you'll have to improvise.
> 
> You might consider getting some wheel dollies.
> 
> ...


Tie downs, I will check that. The dollies sound good. I was planning on leaving the car on its own wheels.



kittydog42 said:


> Depending on how high you can lift the car, you should consider pulling the entire engine/transmission sub frame from the car. This would not allow to roll the car anymore, but it would make removal of the engine and mounting the electric motor a lot easier. The gist of it is that you remove the calipers from the brake discs in the front, undo the steering shaft from the steering box, disconnect the radiator, heater core, electrical harnesses going to the engine, unbolt the 4 bolts or 6 bolts holding up the sub frame, and remove it by lowering it with a jack. It's something to look into, anyway, for anyone doing a FWD conversion.


Dismantling the direction scare me. I am able but not that much.



DavidDymaxion said:


> It is very handy to be able to roll the car in and out of the garage.
> 
> I used big plastic zip-ties to hold up the axles. They spin in the plastic without getting scratched up.
> 
> I also bagged the ends of the axles to keep out dirt.


Zip-ties. I like that, I have a lot of the really long ones. Plus one can zip them together.



Jimdear2 said:


> This process, of course does not work too well if the engine and transmission are mounted directly to the unibody.he he he
> 
> 
> Sorry kittydog, just couldn't pass it up.



Unibody. No frame. Check.

Thanks guys. Can do. Now if old man winter can finaly go away...

DP


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

1clue said:


> I've used a piece of stiff wire to span under the drive shaft near the front. In my case there were already holes in the frame for towing and tie-downs, but if not you'll have to improvise.
> 
> You might consider getting some wheel dollies.
> 
> ...


Just gave those dollies a second look. Nice. I first thought they wer from grabing the frame.

There pretty cool.

DP


----------



## martymcfly (Sep 10, 2008)

If you go with the dollies, get the good ones. I have a set from HF, and they are junk. Have to turn all of the casters the same way with a screwdriver to get them to roll.


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

martymcfly said:


> If you go with the dollies, get the good ones. I have a set from HF, and they are junk. Have to turn all of the casters the same way with a screwdriver to get them to roll.


Hi.

I will not get the dollies. My garage is not wide enough to make a difference.
When in I will have six inches ( 15 cm ) on on side and about 2 feet ( 60 cm ) on the other. Not much to play with. If I could push it in an inacessible dead space that would work, but it is not the case. Plus my floor slab as a 2 inches ( 5 cm ) drop to meet the driveway.

DP


----------



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

Marty,

I never saw wheel dollies that bad. I guess I have to tell people to be a bit more careful. 

Canuck,

My point was that if you want to move the car to the right 2 feet, without the dollies you have to open the garage door, push the car forward while steering it, then push it back while steering it. One direction is surely going to be up hill, and the other is surely going to be down hill. So you have an extra problem of getting stopped in one direction and getting started in the other.

For me, my slab slants slightly so that down is out the door, just enough that if water makes a puddle it will flow outside. When there's snow, the part about halting forward motion is very problematic.

With wheel dollies, all you gotta do is give it a shove and it goes into the exactly right position for whatever you want to do.

What they do is change moving the car from a massive undertaking to something which does not require thought or significant effort.

For example, if you have a bunch of yard implements hanging on the wall and your car is right next to them, if you have no dollies you will either climb all over the car to get to the yard implement, or climb through it, and then try to snake the tool out through the inside of the car.

With the dollies, you just go to where you want to get, give the fender a shove and the car moves over for you. Really good dollies make this very easy, they work well over cracks and such too.


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hey 1clue.

I will not go for the dollies. I like the Hydraulics ones. At that price ($105) getting 4 would be ok. And I value owning tools. But I do not feel they will be that usefull. Once the Ice components are off and the motor bay clean I plans to push it staight in agains the wall with the Hood and doors off.

I will jack it on stands and it will stay there until it can roll out on its own.
The only thing on the side I need access to is the fuel door wich will be on the wider side.

The gardenning stuff will go in my mostly unused basement.

I have been collecting component and there are more to come of course, but the next big tool for me will be a welder. That is were my money will go.

Thank you,

DP


----------



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

Totally cool with that, I just wanted to make sure you know what you're deciding about. Not trying to make your mind up for you!

About welders, do you want advice?

Too bad I guess, I'm going to give it to you.

A few years ago I picked up what I considered to be a pretty good MIG welder from Lowes, which is a home improvement place like Home Depot or Menard's. Frankly, it does what I had originally wanted if you know how to work it, except that while it technically will weld aluminum, the welding forums all complain about how badly it does.

However, I didn't exactly follow the advice of the professional welder I had been getting advice from. I didn't think I could swing it, and not enough "useful benefit" to justify the cost.

What he told me is to go find a welder supply place like Air Gas. The place in every town where you get your tanks filled. These guys are in the business of selling gas. It's extremely competitive and they are very interested in keeping the same guy coming back year after year. Mostly it's commercial guys of course, but also home builders like me.

What my buddy told me is that these guys sell welders and equipment, but they sell it for what they have in it. None of the actual equipment goes for list price. I didn't believe him and bought my Lincoln cheapie.

When I started getting my gas from the local company, I started browsing their books and such. The proprietor was very helpful but only "on demand" so to speak. He would ask me if I had questions about something about every 3rd tank, which took a while even with the little 20 lbs (or whatever) tank I was using. Not even full diameter, a baby bottle. Eventually he gave me a bottle upgrade ($100 normally) for free because I was making so many trips. Twice the size bottle, an extra $2 to fill it.

When I finally bit, I found out that 2x the money I spent would have got me 4x the welder. I could have welded steel and aluminum without changing spools or getting a wrench to change bottles. I could have welded more than twice the thickness of steel, for a much higher duty cycle. That would have made a HUGE difference when welding my trailer.

These guys also have plain old buzz boxes if you want one. Do yourself a favor: Go find an Air Gas or whatever, go in and talk to the guy. Listen to what he says. Compare to what you can get elsewhere. Make an informed decision. It hurts not one bit to go fondle the professional gear. It's not as expensive as you think.


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

Hi 1clue.

I do not mind getting advice.

I do not know how to weld...yet. I will learn.

I was planning on getting an arc welder with TIG.
I probably get it in April/May with my income tax refund.

Right now I do not know enough to say what I need and will need.
More setting mean more ticknesses, more capability, more money.

You get what you pay for of course.

But right now, I figure: If I can do all my welding without scorching my retinas, fingers or set the house on fire, I'm golden.

I will find an agreable gas guy and chat.

Tanx,

DP


----------



## roadrash (Feb 21, 2009)

on most GM FWD such as sunfires and cavaliers, seperate lower ball joint, remove center cv shaft nut, tap back the cv shaft while holding the rotor and you should be able to remove the shaft(s) you don't touch the brakes. store the shafts inside (never hanging in car)
on some models you do have to seperate the outer tie rod, (for clearance) and as long as you reconnect the ball joint and tie rod (always replace the cotter pin(s) with a new one - safety issue) you and a friend can push the car out side. block the tires and engage parking brake for safety.
removal of the engine/tranny as one unit with a cherry picker is a lot easier than removing the entire sub-frame assy. 
if you choose the sub-frame route, disconnect tie rods leave the rack in the car unless its attached to the sub frame,


----------



## aktill (Jun 18, 2008)

I'd honestly just remove the half shafts - having them dangling would be a pain. The hardest parts of removing the transmission are getting the hub nuts free, and getting the half shafts free from the transmission. I'd just go for the gusto...makes moving the car around MUCH easier.


----------



## kittydog42 (Sep 18, 2007)

It definitely does not pay to go cheap when it comes to a welder. This is what I tell people when I hear that they are planning to buy a welder at Harbor Freight.


----------



## Wirecutter (Jul 26, 2007)

Instead of hijacking the thread, I started a new one:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...autions-moving-28650.html?p=106856#post106856

-Mark


----------



## e_canuck (May 8, 2008)

roadrash said:


> on most GM FWD such as sunfires and cavaliers, seperate lower ball joint, remove center cv shaft nut, tap back the cv shaft while holding the rotor and you should be able to remove the shaft(s) you don't touch the brakes. store the shafts inside (never hanging in car)
> on some models you do have to seperate the outer tie rod, (for clearance) and as long as you reconnect the ball joint and tie rod (always replace the cotter pin(s) with a new one - safety issue) you and a friend can push the car out side. block the tires and engage parking brake for safety.
> removal of the engine/tranny as one unit with a cherry picker is a lot easier than removing the entire sub-frame assy.
> if you choose the sub-frame route, disconnect tie rods leave the rack in the car unless its attached to the sub frame,


I tought I knew how to get that engine out. Now I am not so shure.
I will investigate what my setup looks like.

DP


----------



## Voltswagen (Nov 13, 2008)

Arc and Mig Welding are not that hard to learn......TIG is another story......takes 3 hands and lottsa patience and practice and a full pack of electrodes.
Arc is usually used for thicker metals requiring maximum penetration....anything over 1/8" thickness...car frames...bridges etc.
MIG and TIG for thinner metals.
I primarily use Shielded Gas MIG for welding sheet metal on car bodys and always use the Heat Sink Clay. You'll learn all about those.
As for price and brand....it's tough. My equiptment is old and German..Einheld. Check the blogs for what guys are buying and liking now.


----------



## martymcfly (Sep 10, 2008)

I believe there is some concern with moving the car without the axles going through the hub. I know that will junk the bearings on a Mopar, I don't know about other brands. I once read it in a service manual. As for the dollies, all it took was a little crack in the shop floor to bend the ears where the casters bolt on to the dollies.


----------



## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

martymcfly said:


> I believe there is some concern with moving the car without the axles going through the hub. I know that will junk the bearings on a Mopar, I don't know about other brands. I once read it in a service manual. As for the dollies, all it took was a little crack in the shop floor to bend the ears where the casters bolt on to the dollies.


It's not just a concern, its a for sure problem on many makes. The best way to be sure, no mater what make FWD and articulated axle RWD vehicle your working with is if you remove spindle end of the axle the from the hubs just take some threaded stock, large washers and nuts and put the bearing back under compression so the two halves of the inner race don't separate when rolling the vehicle around.

Do this even on those with the hub pressed through bearing . I can guarentee that they will come apart. Don't take a chance. 
A couple of bucks in threaded stock will save hundreds in replaced bearings.

Once we started this procedure whenever we moved a vehicle wirh the shafts removed we never damaged another bearing.


----------



## 1clue (Jul 21, 2008)

All I can say is, you guys must have found some sort of Chinese-made wheel dollies. The ones I used had nice wide wheels, and they went over cracks in the floor as if it were perfectly smooth.

I'm gonna ask the guy who I borrowed them from to find out how much they cost.

I know the OP does not want them, but I've never heard of these problems you guys are talking about.


----------

