# Lindsey Williams



## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

Have you seen this man and his video? or read his book? I believe it. I'm just wondering others opinions.


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## zelig2 (May 2, 2008)

Ahhh, but if the US waits till Saudi Arabia is completely dry of oil then the US becomes the world power in Oil.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

zelig2 said:


> Ahhh, but if the US waits till Saudi Arabia is completely dry of oil then the US becomes the world power in Oil.


There not running out any time soon. They have plenty to sell but plan on using the euro for trade. That's why the US is so pissy about the situation.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Lindsey Williams sounds like a nut job to me. Pretty ridiculous stuff.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Lindsey Williams sounds like a nut job to me. Pretty ridiculous stuff.


It doesn't sound that inconceivable to me. Being the 'unconsumer' that I am, I can see how certain aspects of the world don't make any sense. Like the cost of electric motors and batteries. I could damn near build a motor for what some of these companies charge. Also, why is it that when you factor in the cost of batteries over the life of an EV it almost -exactly- matches the cost of driving an ICE powered vehicle? If there was THAT much savings in EVs, everyone would be doing it, including major manufacturers. GM patronized us with the EV1 but held on tight to that lease leash. That car proved itself both practical and feasible so it had to go. American greed is really the point source of our downward spiral. That's quite clear when you look at corporate promises to "...be able to afford more employees by outsourcing labor to foreign countries". I laugh at the politicians who gullibley bought that line and started the WTO. Now company profits fill back pockets not the mouths of hungry Americans. The boundries on humanity and society are too strategically placed for things to have just -happened- the way they have.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

Well that's about the most convincing conspiracy theory I've ever heard. Interesting claims.

Haha, he quotes an AM radio talk show host and identifies him as "conservative". As if having your own AM radio show doesn't already identify you as conservative. Of course, we all know that am radio talk show hosts are more than a little biased. I don't think that this type of source is very reputable.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Typical preacher, telling stories with no facts to back them up. He just wants to sell his book. Some other opinions:
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic40419.html
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic40491.html


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

One of those posts over there said.

"He keeps saying "you wanna know who?" , "this will be startling". Well Ive heard nothing from Lindsey but his own propaganda to sell books. No names no nothing."

Lindsey clearly explained who. The 'international banks' to use few words. 

I have just as hard a time listening to a preacher. It may have to be taken with a grain of salt but he did a good job of pointing out his "facts" and even the listener can add it up and begin to visualize the bigger picture. I was sort of suprised how much information he did provide. You might not even need to read the book after hearing his talks. I didn't hear him say once "Do you want to know? Read my book"


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Yeh how did China an 'ally' of the usa get their mits into Cuba?


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Lexus said:


> See there is this paper stuff you give to people in government to get them to do what you want ... it is call MONEY!


Oh yeh that stuff. I remember it as a child. (looks into empty pockets)


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## joseph3354 (Apr 2, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> Yeh how did China an 'ally' of the usa get their mits into Cuba?


china is no more an "ally" of the united states than cuba is.they are only a"most favored nation" in trading status.how they get that with all the spy ring busts lately,i just don't understand.don't get me wrong.i have absolutely nothing against the chinese people,but i like their government about as much as i like ours.not very much.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

joseph3354 said:


> china is no more an "ally" of the united states than cuba is.they are only a"most favored nation" in trading status.how they get that with all the spy ring busts lately,i just don't understand.don't get me wrong.i have absolutely nothing against the chinese people,but i like their government about as much as i like ours.not very much.


Yes that's why I put ally in quotes.  I don't know enough about China to have any opinion. Their manufacturing abilities are as good as anyones.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

I wouldn't exactly call China an ally. More like an uncomfortable bed fellow. 

I seriously doubt that Lindsy Williams is 100% correct with his message, but he is most likely not far off the mark... from a certain perspective.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Lindsey Williams:"Gas could be $1.50 a gallon in one year if the administration would be honest with the American people"
Not a chance in hell, it would take years to develop any new wells. That kind of statement from him shows how little he actually understands. 


> The opening of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR 1002 Area) to oil and natural gas development would result in additional oil production of a peak 780,000 barrels per day in 2027, according to the mean case developed by the Energy Information Administration in a revised assessment of ANWR potential. That would result in trimming $0.75 (in 2006 dollars) off the projected cost of a barrel of oil, according to the EIA.


http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/05/eia-anwr-oil-pr.html#more
This guy is a BS artist who plays on people's fears, like most religious leaders, and people buy into his crap, without asking for any proof.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Doubting the truth only lets them win.


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## Rolls Kinardly (May 30, 2008)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. 

A _minister_ who spent some time in Prudhoe Bay in the 1970's, who makes claims that are wildly different than those whose job it is to know such things, and who offers little if any proof other than he said she said, is not a credible source.

If he could provide some verifiable proof of this agreement Kissinger supposedly made with OPEC, that would be a really good start.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> Doubting the truth only lets them win.


Believing unsubstantiated bullshit means you lose.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Well I don't want to wait for a bleeding fissure before I realise how far the government shoved their... I'll quit while I'm ahead.

Like I said. To be taken with a grain of salt but interesting none the less.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

we need to depend on ourselves and stop looking to the government for answers. Thomas Jefferson said for this type of government to survive there needs to be revolutions to keep the government in check. We need to fight with our vote and vote these bums out of office, then they will be more worried about what we need versus what they want.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

michaeljayclark said:


> We need to fight with our vote and vote these bums out of office


Who are we going to vote for? Politicians are only the salesman.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

if we can find people who want to be in office for the right reasons. remove the corruption factor (lobbyists, political parties, etc)


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

michaeljayclark said:


> if we can find people who want to be in office for the right reasons. remove the corruption factor (lobbyists, political parties, etc)


No single official could change it. The infection is far spread.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

not talking about one person. throwing one person in to change everything would be like making an all powerful king!

one way would be to not vote for anyone that has been in there for more than 3 terms. vote people in with the understanding they must establish term limits and get rid of lobbyists, special interest groups, PACs, parties, etc...

OR we can hold constitutional conventions ourselves in all states and amend the constitution that way.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

His comments about Iraq not wanting to sell oil in dollars are compelling. I have never understood the motive behind invading Iraq. The argument that we want to install a government that is friendly to the US so that we can buy oil in US dollars is very believable. In fact, it is the only explanation that I have ever heard that I can actually believe. 

Now consider that Iran also refuses to sell oil in US dollars. Also consider that Iran is surrounded by Turkey, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia. All of these countries are either occupied by the US or are friendly to the US. Oh, and remember John McCaines little bomb bomb Iran joke? I wonder if Iran is feeling the squeeze?

Again, I seriously doubt that Lindsey Williams is 100% on the mark, but he does present some very compelling arguments.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

The war on Iraq has flooded the world market with billions of US dollars, devaluing the currency and therefore driving up the price of oil. Just think where we'd be today if instead that money had been used to subsidize and promote EV's and battery technology. Bush can't leave fast enough, hopefully not to be replaced by another like him.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> The war on Iraq has flooded the world market with billions of US dollars, devaluing the currency and therefore driving up the price of oil. Just think where we'd be today if instead that money had been used to subsidize and promote EV's and battery technology. Bush can't leave fast enough, hopefully not to be replaced by another like him.


I think Hillary dropped out, McCain dropped the ball of professionalism with his "bomb bomb iran" thing , some other guy?, and Obama in the lead.

You could take Bush out of office tomorrow and things won't change. There's many currupt hands on the triggers, not just Hitle... I mean Bush's.

There's more vacation time for some of those guys then fightng. When my friend came back he couldn't wait to tell me how sweet 360 games looked on the 52" plasma they stole.

I agree this war money could be better used elsewhere for things like curing cancer (oh wait they got that), curing AIDS (oh wait they got that too), practical production electric car? (oh wait they crushed that). Well were #ucked as long as the government is in charge.

What happened to "We The People"?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> What happened to "We The People"?


Too many of those "People" gave the Bushman 2 terms


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

We can all agree the original constitution is way gone. Freedom to assemble turned into inciting a riot, freedom to bare arms became only if you are not in washington DC and have a perfect history and record, right to vote if only never had a felony conviction ever even 30 years ago, etc etc etc etc

we didnt elect bush last election it was a vote against kerry, not a vote for bush. same thing will happen this time. we dont elect a president, the parties pick the their spokesman and we pick between two people. We dont elect anyone, we are given our choices by the parties.

political parties were foretold to ruin the system by thomas jefferson and george washington


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

michaeljayclark said:


> we didnt elect bush last election it was a vote against kerry, not a vote for bush. same thing will happen this time. we dont elect a president, the parties pick the their spokesman and we pick between two people. We dont elect anyone, we are given our choices by the parties.


The end result was a vote FOR Bush, and was a disaster for the country, and the world. Hopefully enough people will have learned their lesson and won't vote blindly for the party that has led us down the wrong path for the last 8 years. It really is time for a change, in a big way. McCain is the old guard and will change nothing. Obama at least gives the possibility of change. If you like the way the country is going, vote FOR McCain, if you don't, vote FOR Obama. Don't vote AGAINST anyone.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

we could go on and on about the problems of the country, lets just fix them and be done with it!

lindsey makes some accusations he cannot back up. more conspiracy theories. He cannot possibly know exactly what kissinger said to the oil countries and how iraq and iran responded. saying that money comes back off the oil sales from the middle east to support our debt is a wild statement.

what is the "national debt" anyway? I tell you what it is, we dont owe anybody, we owe ourselves. our government is based on a ponzi scheme. 

the tax money coming in is below the spending. we spend more money on crap then the government takes in and the only reason it keeps going is the money comes in every week. We need a ever growing population to pay in taxes to keep the scheme going. we are borrowing from our future projected population to pay for things today. thats why they keep saying the war is costing money that our children will have to pay for. They keep dipping into areas like social security to keep the upside down pyramid going.

sooner or later the pyramid falls over and the govt has to "borrow" money to put it back up.

lindsey is saying the debt is supported by oil sales. this does make some sense. 

I have noticed that most conspiracy theorist make arguments based on some truth but embellish other areas to make other arguments seem true.

anyone who talks in definitives is usually lying. saying that everyone is losing their house to bankruptcy is a logical fallacy. lindsey uses lots of definitives.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Well said.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

michaeljayclark said:


> we could go on and on about the problems of the country, lets just fix them and be done with it!


We can't fix anything if we don't know what's wrong with it other then it just doesn't work.

I think he's trying to explain part of why it's broken but remember, he's speaking to the "average american idiot" not to the high ups who already know the information... Or to us.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

This is interesting. Look what happened since 911

http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

the answer to all the BS with oil is simple and we all have it right here. electric cars. 

regardless of where oil goes when people switch to electric cars OPEC with start to beg for everyone around the world to buy their oil.

As more EVs pop up more people will start to get fed up with oil and the BS behind it. The answer I give to people who say oil will drop back down is when will it start to go back up again and do you like to ride the roller coaster with your wallet?


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Until companies like GM, Ford, Honda, etc. each have 3 EV models to choose from, I don't think Americans will be to fast to hop on electric. The powers that be just don't want it that way. Don't forget the other big problem, the MASS-IGNORANCE that exhists in this country. It's to easy to fall into that. With so many TV channels and video games who has the time to go learn something new that could change their life? They sit and watch TV waiting to hear the news that someone else did it. Cost is the other factor. It takes less to build an EV yet they cost the consumer more money when they are produced? Why? How does that motivate change in any way? Electric is reliable and would hurt the oem and aftermarket parts sales.


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

the word is spreading and the 4 dollars a gallon price makes people look twice at the car going by the says ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLE. Your absolutely right the aftermarket companies and oem sales of the manufacturers will make an all electric vehicle next to impossible that is why we need the grassroots efforts to continue regardless of profit. This is the only way to fight multi-billion dollar comapnies that control the market.. err wait are we not a free market economy? (cough, cough, lie, lie, cough, cough)

When I tell someone that it costs $10,000 to make an EV I am not counting the amount of time to make the EV. I would gladly give my time and make very little profit to get more EVs on the road. The idea is to make them cheap and I work almost for free and as more and more get on the road more and more will get sold to the point that the price can rise as demand rises.

This goes against the idea that you produce a concept product, get the demand set through advertising, then mass produce the product at a large profit to recoup the initial advertising and initial costs of setting up the product.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

You aren't accomplishing anything unless you can make the batteries cheap. Nobody wants a PbA powered EV with a 30 mile range. Heck, even I'm not willing to put up with that for very long. Hopefully I will have a decent enough job after college that I can exchange my lead acids for Li ions and start driving a real car again.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

EV's need a bottom loaded pack that can be exchanged by an automated station and cells could be charged on-site by solar etc.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> EV's need a bottom loaded pack that can be exchanged by an automated station and cells could be charged on-site by solar etc.


No they don't. They need affordable lithium batteries. At the right price enough batteries can be carried to give 200 mile + range, and fast charging is possible. Swapping is unnecessary and not practical, no one will agree on a standard, and the logistics of pluging and unplugging a hi voltage battery pack is not going to be easy. Battery connections need to be TIGHT and vibration proof. Most people will never need more than 200 miles range in one day, why design and build a swapping infrastructure for something that will rarely be used?


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

I think EVs would be more accepted if it was faster to fill. aka automated swap charging. No charge time (for the consumer). It's unfortunate to stereotype but americans are stupid and lazy. I'm speaking of the majority not the few. I'm surrounded by 60+ year old neighbors that have a hard enough time driving the car and pumping their own gas let along grasping the 'complexity' of pluging in a battery. Standards could be set by the automotive industry. There wouldn't be a fight over that. It's not a cell phone were talking about. It's a _highly regulated_ vehicle were talking about. The governmet had the power to bend you over and put a gas pump up your a$$ they could just as easily require a manufacture to meet a standard. As they do now. The world isn't a practical place. It's money driven. The powers that be will only consider change if it's in their best financial interests anyways. Hence the cost of batteries. If they became affordable, everyone would be using them and stop buying gas. Great idea! It's just not going to happen untill there's a mass extinction of politicians.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

You're adding cost and complexity to a vehicle that needs neither. Anyone who can plug in a vacuum cleaner can plug in an electric car. Right now it takes between 5- 10 minutes to fill your tank with gas, longer if there is a line. Anyone who has any concept of money can understand that charging at home, at night, will be much cheaper than getting a fast charge or a battery swap at some station. No battery swap is going to be that fast any way, I don't care how they engineer it. Once again, range is available right now, as is fast charging. The only problem is those batteries cost too much. So instead of trying to engineer something complex and cumbersome like a battery swap, just subsidize the battery cost and solve the problem immediately.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Well if you have it all figured out get on it. 

[rant]
A new battery could come out tomorrow that costs 1000x less to manufacture but you think your going to pay 1000x less? 500x less? 10x less? Hell no. The company or person who comes out with it is going to try and bank on it to make 1000x more money then his entire family would ever use in 1000 lifetimes. The best chance the EV has is to be built as profitable as cars are today. Greed is the problem. Not batteries, not motors, not charging times. Plain old (american) greed. They only care about money. Other countries have EVs all over the streets. Mopeds, bikes, scooters, motorcycles, cars, trucks, the list goes on. Why not this country? Because of money. I saw a 12yo kid and his mother in court once. He had 4 tickets for no licence, no registration, no insurance, and improper lighting. He was driving his electric scooter on the street. I'd like to find the cop who wrote a kid 4 tickets and blast him in the mouth. It's that sort of power-trip legal-ego abuse that needs to stop. You do know why there are little balls on the tip of the sheriff's star right? So when it goes up their a$$ it doesn't hurt so bad.
[/rant]

Why so many rules and regulations in a "free" country? To protect us from ourselfs? To profit?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Here is how easy it could be. Let's say we want to subsidize 20 million EV's.  That would certainly make a large dent and get EV's on the road in a big way, plus drive costs down through volume. So let's subsidize the battery pack for each car to the tune of $10,000. That's 200 billion dollars, and still much less than we've spent in Iraq, and this would actually help cut our dependence on foreign oil. Even 10 million cars would make a huge difference, at a price of 100 billion. Give battery companies like A123 and Altairnano an incentive to scale up production by giving them a market to sell all the batteries they can make and then some. As it is Altairnano is losing money every day, they can't lower their price without going out of business.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

lazzer408 said:


> Why so many rules and regulations in a "free" country? To protect us from ourselfs? To profit?


Ralph Nader


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

JRP3 said:


> Here is how easy it could be. Let's say we want to subsidize 20 million EV's.  That would certainly make a large dent and get EV's on the road in a big way, plus drive costs down through volume. So let's subsidize the battery pack for each car to the tune of $10,000. That's 200 billion dollars, and still much less than we've spent in Iraq, and this would actually help cut our dependence on foreign oil. Even 10 million cars would make a huge difference, at a price of 100 billion. Give battery companies like A123 and Altairnano an incentive to scale up production by giving them a market to sell all the batteries they can make and then some. As it is Altairnano is losing money every day, they can't lower their price without going out of business.


Excellent plan. This is basically what my argument was when I wrote Senator Kyl (the only senator in my state that isn't already too busy trying to further the Bush legacy). Naturally, Senator Kyl wrote me back telling me that electric cars can't drive far enough and are slow. I guess he hasn't seen the Tesla Roadster. Man, I really need to write him back. Heck, I should at least thank him responding. That was more than I expected.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah write him back, tell him about Tesla, and some of the EV dragsters out there if he thinks EV's have to be slow. Let him know that good batteries exist right now and fast charing is possible, throw in the fact that nothing is more patriotic than running on American electrons instead of foreign oil


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## michaeljayclark (Apr 3, 2008)

the battery swap idea was the backbone of a man in vermont who had an electric car designed and investors ready to mass produce. he had deals with the post office and avis rent a car. he had proof of concept electric jeeps for the post office already doing routes and working perfectly. His name was wayne goldman.

then out of no where the post office said they will only buy jeep made electric trucks (yeah right like they will ever do that) and then avis just ignored him. 

that was in 1975.

We need to organize an electric car rally in washington with hundreds of EVs. that would really show their potential and attract ALOT of attention. since we are so spread out a few EVs here and there get attention but they are treated like isolated incidents and the people who make them as mad scientists.

the current battery manufacturers are looking for a company that makes EVs to plop down a million dollar contract. Thats the business model I described earlier. They have investors that want a quick return on their money so when individuals ask to buy batteries they are almost ignored. 

we just need more people to make EVs and form clubs that make EVs for people regardless of profit. This grassroots type business model will make the big manufactures think twice.

they can shut down one person that starts to produce EVs but they cant shut down 100 groups.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

michaeljayclark said:


> then out of no where the post office said they will only buy jeep made electric trucks (yeah right like they will ever do that) and then avis just ignored him.
> 
> that was in 1975.


Quite possibly they crunched the numbers and realized that EV sized battery swapping is not a practical idea. Let's not forget the need for extra batteries to be available for swapping. Who do you think gets to cover the extra cost of those extra batteries, not to mention the cost of the actual swap and equipment needed? Swapping batteries does nothing except make EV's more expensive.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> Quite possibly they crunched the numbers and realized that EV sized battery swapping is not a practical idea. Let's not forget the need for extra batteries to be available for swapping. Who do you think gets to cover the extra cost of those extra batteries, not to mention the cost of the actual swap and equipment needed? Swapping batteries does nothing except make EV's more expensive.


Swapping seems to work well in the cordless market. Anyways, it's clear your against that idea so lets drop that... moving on. The advantages of electric cars are obvious to those who know about them. Why do TV stations only show short clips, if any, about EVs? Maybe because the government owns them? aka FCC. I don't know. There's much too little information given to the general public. Maybe there needs to be some >100mph hot pursuit EV chases. That would get more media attention. People, including Senator Kyl, are ignorant that's all. People do what they do because it's all they know, or are allowed, to do. If all the EV owners, who spent 10g+ on their builds, got together, they could have founded a company by now. Together we stand, united we fall.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

lazzer408 said:


> Swapping seems to work well in the cordless market.


When I can hold an EV battery pack in one hand then I'll admit it could work, though it better run longer than the 15 minutes my drill does.


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> When I can hold an EV battery pack in one hand then I'll admit it could work, though it better run longer than the 15 minutes my drill does.


I can screw all day with mine.  I was only compairing oranges to bigger oranges.

Think how cheap batteries could get if there were 2 for every EV.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

If the station were in a very high traffic area, they might need as many as 30+ sets of batteries.
Keeping all of those charged up on a rotating basis, would be a nightmare.
Not practical for now....


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## lazzer408 (May 18, 2008)

Someone has to charge them. It's that or sit at home for 4 hours. That's one of the draw backs to the EV.


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## xrotaryguy (Jul 26, 2007)

We're way off topic here. I continued this topic in Technical Discussion.


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