# [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower, ThunderSky, or Seiden



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

In addition to Thors request, how many cells are people buying at a time? Is
there a certain minimum quantity a buyer should consider? After looking
roughly at my needs I was thinking about pricing a pack of 54 LFP100s. Is
this too small to buy on my own?

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Thor Johnson <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> > year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group buy)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Guys,

Ive had good experiences with thundersky cells for my scooter in the past
year or so:
http://www.evalbum.com/1499

I also own 90 x lfp90s, which ill be putting into my mr2.

If you buy from a distributor such as everspring, you can order any quantity
you like.
If you want to buy from the factory, it really only makes sense if you are
building several cars.

I know to get the price really cheap last time ($US1.20/AH ex factory) we
bought, we had to buy around 35'000AH.

Btw, Thor, where are you loacted?
If you are after a group buy, its usually better to be buying with people
near you.
Im in Australia btw.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of dave cover
Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2009 1:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky,or Seiden

In addition to Thors request, how many cells are people buying at a time? Is
there a certain minimum quantity a buyer should consider? After looking
roughly at my needs I was thinking about pricing a pack of 54 LFP100s. Is
this too small to buy on my own?

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Thor Johnson <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> > year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I knew I forgot to add something. I'm in Atlanta, GA.
-Thor 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of matt
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:31 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky,or Seiden

Hi Guys,

Ive had good experiences with thundersky cells for my scooter in the
past
year or so:
http://www.evalbum.com/1499

I also own 90 x lfp90s, which ill be putting into my mr2.

If you buy from a distributor such as everspring, you can order any
quantity
you like.
If you want to buy from the factory, it really only makes sense if you
are
building several cars.

I know to get the price really cheap last time ($US1.20/AH ex factory)
we
bought, we had to buy around 35'000AH.

Btw, Thor, where are you loacted?
If you are after a group buy, its usually better to be buying with
people
near you.
Im in Australia btw.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of dave cover
Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2009 1:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky,or Seiden

In addition to Thors request, how many cells are people buying at a
time? Is
there a certain minimum quantity a buyer should consider? After looking
roughly at my needs I was thinking about pricing a pack of 54 LFP100s.
Is
this too small to buy on my own?

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Thor Johnson <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

China battery has the best priced ones that I have seen recently.... $8,600
for a 96 volt 200AH pack. Not sure if that included BMS. Nor do I know
anyone who has bought from them. I'm hoping by the time I'm ready (I'm
testing the truck with lead acid first, to get all the bugs worked out of
the drive/monitoring system, etc, before I start playing around with Lithium
batteries), someone will have some experience with more of the options and
be able to recommend them more strongly...

Z

On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Thor Johnson <


> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I knew I forgot to add something. I'm in Atlanta, GA.
> > -Thor
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

******************************************************
Emily Cao

Zhuhai Sanchuan Electronic Technology Co.Ltd
Skype:emily2914
Msn: sin[email protected]
Gmail: [email protected]
& [email protected]
Tel:86-756-8535729-820
Mobile:86-13631287131
Fax:86-8535729-816 & 86-756-8535469
websit: www.chinabatterycenter.com
******************************************************

This is the full contact information I have. These people have basically
done me out of about $1700 cash and I am most fortunate it was not more.

A few months ago I was shopping for LiFePo4 batteries and contacted this
company. I received a reply from Ms. Emily Cao. I inquired as to pricing and
availability.

Ms. Cao was a bit cagey about pricing and shipping and so forth. So I
entered an order with Everspring for the needed batteries. She was a bit
enraged at this and accused me of all sorts of things. I eventually entered
a small order for ten 100Ah cells at an agreed price for shipping by air and
the cells. I received a PDF invoice for the amount listing $225 for air
shipping to St. Louis and another $1500 and change for the batteries. We
sent a wire transfer per her instructions on October 29.

The batteries were to be delivered within 3 weeks. SIX weeks after entering
the order, I received an e-mail from her noting that "she had made a
mistake" and an additional $631 was necessary for shipping charges. I sent
her a copy of the invoice, detailing shipping charges, along with all of our
e-mails discussing the shipping charges in detail.

She said she just couldn't ship them for that and would not be able to ship
the batteries until I sent them another $631.

I told her fine, then refund the amount and keep the batteries.

She informed me it "was not possible" to refund the amount and repeated her
request for another $631.

In fact, she has repeated it daily. I've numerous times told her to send the
batteries, or send the money, I don't care which. She simply declines to do
so and repeats her request for more money.
I've been very clear with her that I would never send her any additional
money, and requested she either return the funds or send the batteries. But
we appear to be at an impasse.

Again, the only batteries I've really had any luck with at all are the
Thunderskys. I'm afraid the battery quest has attracted some unsavory scam
artists. With the convention of wire transfer of funds
to China, there really is no recourse. She has the money. And I have
nothing. And there really isn't much I can do about it.

I have bought quite a few batteries from Jennifer Wenren at Everspring in
Phoenix. First, she WILL take American Express. That gives you pretty
reasy recourse if you don't get your batteries.
Second, she has shipped them and more or less been on time. I actually did
receive a charger with the voltage knob broken off of it. She IMMEDIATELY
replaced the charger.

The batteries themselves are an enigma. My calculations on the Porsche
Speedster
(http://picasaweb.google.com/mjrickard/Porsche356?authkey=019vTyvkyQU&feat=directlink#)
would indicate a range of about 45 miles. I just drove it 75 miles on one
charge and still made 40 mph limping back home.

So they appear to be quite a bit better than they ought to be. Of course,
we don't have any data yet on how long they will last, but the Thundersky's
are speced at greater than 2000 cycles.

Hope this helps. The good news is that the LiFePo4 batteries, from my
perspective are both available and very "real" in performance. The bad news
is, there are still scam artists at play, and with these overseas purchases,
you really don't have much recourse. Fortunately, my hit was pretty small.



Jack Rickard




> Thor Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> > year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group buy)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why do you insist on getting the cheapest ?
Ever heard the saying " you get what you pay for " ..or not at all.

http://www.nabble.com/file/p21395987/TSkyOvercharge.jpg 



> Thor Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> > year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group buy)
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmmmm. Sounds very much like the Nigerian scams... just send a little more
money, and we can send you the stuff....



> Jack Rickard <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > ******************************************************
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack Rickard wrote:
> > Again, the only batteries I've really had any luck with at all are the
> > Thunderskys. I'm afraid the battery quest has attracted some unsavory scam
> ...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

More likely, I overestimated the kWhr per mile the car would require. It got
about 25 mpg as a gasoline car. But I guess the high performance VW engine
was not very efficient.

Jack Rickard

Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
> 
>


> Jack Rickard wrote:
> >> Again, the only batteries I've really had any luck with at all are the
> >> Thunderskys. I'm afraid the battery quest has attracted some unsavory
> >> scam
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It seems he is murdering his pack.
"Limping home" may be somewhat acceptable on floodeds,
I doubt that any chemistry like Li-Ion will survive it...
Unless he was monitoring EVERY cell to stay above 3V
while limping...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] on behalf of Willie McKemie
Sent: Sun 1/11/2009 5:56 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower, ThunderSky,or Seiden



> Jack Rickard wrote:
> > Again, the only batteries I've really had any luck with at all are the
> > Thunderskys. I'm afraid the battery quest has attracted some unsavory scam
> ...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yup, hes doing what im doing to my test pack.
With TS LiFePO4, 2.5v is the target to stay above.
With PSI cells, they say 2.1v is the target to stay above.

Ive personally discharged my 40AH 48v TS pack until the no load voltage as
below 2.5v on *every* cell on 5 occasions. 
They're still survivng ok, I wont really know for sure until I bench test
the cells to see what the capacity loss was.
Definitely wouldn't suggest overdischarging though.

Btw Jack,
Are you using an AH counter?

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Monday, 12 January 2009 4:15 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky,or Seiden

It seems he is murdering his pack.
"Limping home" may be somewhat acceptable on floodeds, I doubt that any
chemistry like Li-Ion will survive it...
Unless he was monitoring EVERY cell to stay above 3V while limping...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] on behalf of Willie McKemie
Sent: Sun 1/11/2009 5:56 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky,or Seiden



> Jack Rickard wrote:
> > Again, the only batteries I've really had any luck with at all are the
> > Thunderskys. I'm afraid the battery quest has attracted some unsavory
> > scam
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

???? Well, I hope not.

It doesn't sound like you have experience with these LiFePo4s.

First, they don't sag quite like an SLA. Despite common belief, they DO sag
a bit, but nothing like an SLA. Second, their rated minimum voltage is 2.5
volts - not 3 volts. And they usually survive that, but you have certainly
shortened their life if you do that routinely. My controller is set to shut
down at 96 volts, which is 3 volts per cell. The discharge curve is quite
steep after that. I had a uniform 3.2 volts after the 75 miles.

The controller never shut off. When it does so, it does restart in a
reduced mode. I didn't mean to imply that I got home on that. Just that
the responsiveness was seriously impaired.
Finally, the chemistry of Li-Ion is probably better for limping than SLA.

As I don't have ANY cycles on the pack precisely, it is not quite
conditioned. And so I have rather conservatively proclaimed 75 miles as the
range, with clearly some left. Over time, I can probably get a better idea
of the real limit. But this will not only suffice for now, but it is quite
beyond what I calculated or hoped for.

The bottom line seems to be about 203 wHr/mile.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mjrickard/Porsche356?authkey=019vTyvkyQU&feat=directlink




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >
> > It seems he is murdering his pack.
> > "Limping home" may be somewhat acceptable on floodeds,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

At the moment, no Matt. I have one of Victor's EVISION devices which will do
this, but it is a bit of wiring getting it all together and we do not as yet
have it installed. Hopefully this week. I haven't quite figured out how to
install his speed sensor on this vehicle.

Jack Rickard

http://picasaweb.google.com/mjrickard/Porsche356?authkey=019vTyvkyQU&feat=directlink




> matt-255 wrote:
> >
> > Yup, hes doing what im doing to my test pack.
> > With TS LiFePO4, 2.5v is the target to stay above.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have heard that expression. I'm not sure it applies here. I certainly do
not insist on getting the cheapest. We have tested some Seidens and a
couple of others and the Thundersky's seemed the best on the bench, although
a bit more expensive. 

But I personally eschew the thrift at any cost mentality. I want a fully
functional car and it doesn't precisely have to be "cheap." In fact, I
think the general concensus that electric cars are impractical unless you
can sell them for $20K is a real problem for the future of the vehicles. I
would expect electric cars that are of a size and offering the creature
comforts to be desireable will be in the $60-$80K range. Given the expense
of the batteries and components, I don't even think an approach at the low
end makes sense. If it is going to cost $40K for a basic vehicle, I don't
want to spend $40K on a Prius style vehicle. I'd rather have an Escalade
with air conditioning that blows through the seat up my ass at $90K.

I think the people an EV will appeal to will have a somewhat modified view
of what a car should cost. But they will demand value. The economics of
not dealing with gas and oil and just the whole ICE stuff are actually
somewhat better, in my view, than you all portray it. But it has to be a
desireable car, and the battery expense has to be in the car purchase, not a
consumable. That means the batteries have to last the life of the car. I
see yours did not.

I have $10,000 in A123 cells sitting in my office in three large boxes. I
have made a small 16 cell aux battery out of a few. And I've played with
various packaging concepts, welding jigs, copper bus bar experiments, etc. 
I personally think they are the wrong way to go in their current form. You
wind up with too many connections and a gross inability to access an
individual cell, for maintenance or measurement. In a motive environment,
the temperature changes and vibration are GOING to lead to high resistance
connections. The inevitable connection to dissimilar metals virtually
assures it.

In any event, I'm open to about anything. What type of cell do you
advocate?

Jack Rickard






> e-scooter wrote:
> >
> > Why do you insist on getting the cheapest ?
> > Ever heard the saying " you get what you pay for " ..or not at all.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jack,

The fact that they do not sag, but abruptly and steeply
drop when they are empty will guarantee that you damage
a few cells if you ever draw the pack anywhere near its
shutoff point, because a long string of cells is NEVER
in balance.
Let me repeat that: *never* in balance.

Even if you would have regulators on all cells,
they are never in balance.
Simply because the capacity between cells varies and
temp and chemistry varies a bit, they will always be
at a slightly different State of Charge.
Even if you will charge them all to exactly 4.2 or
whatever piont your chemistry prefers, this only gives
the same 100% SOC point, but since their capacity
differs a little bit, they will not reach 0% at the
same time, so one suddenly drops to 0 and is reversed
while the others still crank out 3+ Volts.
With 32 cells in series and one dropped to 0V the 31
others only need to supply 3.1V to stay above 96V!

So, if you do not monitor *every* cell, then you will
murder one or more of them when drawing them down to
96V. Don't believe me - you will find it out all by
yourself.
I was also of the conviction that I could judge how
far my pack could bring me, until I went a little
bit further than I intended and had to limp home.
Then I started to find weak (damaged) cells....
Yup - murdered my first pack. Most do. Most learn.

BTW, no, you are correct, I have no experience with
LiFePo4 yet. I'd love to buy about 3,000Ah of it,
preferably in 100 or 200Ah blocks.
But I can recognise a battery murder when I see one ;-)

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jack Rickard
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky, or Seiden


???? Well, I hope not.

It doesn't sound like you have experience with these LiFePo4s.

First, they don't sag quite like an SLA. Despite common belief, they DO
sag
a bit, but nothing like an SLA. Second, their rated minimum voltage is
2.5
volts - not 3 volts. And they usually survive that, but you have
certainly
shortened their life if you do that routinely. My controller is set to
shut
down at 96 volts, which is 3 volts per cell. The discharge curve is
quite
steep after that. I had a uniform 3.2 volts after the 75 miles.

The controller never shut off. When it does so, it does restart in a
reduced mode. I didn't mean to imply that I got home on that. Just
that
the responsiveness was seriously impaired.
Finally, the chemistry of Li-Ion is probably better for limping than
SLA.

As I don't have ANY cycles on the pack precisely, it is not quite
conditioned. And so I have rather conservatively proclaimed 75 miles as
the
range, with clearly some left. Over time, I can probably get a better
idea
of the real limit. But this will not only suffice for now, but it is
quite
beyond what I calculated or hoped for.

The bottom line seems to be about 203 wHr/mile.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mjrickard/Porsche356?authkey=019vTyvkyQU&fea
t=directlink




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >
> > It seems he is murdering his pack.
> > "Limping home" may be somewhat acceptable on floodeds,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Cor:

You seem quite sure of a number of things, with very little information. 
By "sag" I'm talking about the decrease in voltage caused by an immediate
current discharge. This is entirely different from a discharge curve.

The cells do not dive to zero and reverse. There is a rather steep drop off
from about 3.0 volts thereafter. 

The cells in my pack are surprisingly in balance at all phases, but of
course you are correct that each cell will have a slightly different
capacity and discharge curve. I've actually been amazed at how closely
these cells track, much better than SLA batteries.

Bottom line is I don't believe you. And I quite intend to find out all by
myself. The cells are now recharged and rather than "murdered" they are
doing very nicely thank you. Again, I'm amazed at how well they remained in
balance during charge.

I had had some Seidens and constant problems with the end batteries rising
in voltage quite a bit beyond the center cells in a 72 volt series pack
during charge. I'm just not seeing this with the Thunderskys.

I guess at this point I should apologize for not having murdered my pack to
appease your concept of a battery technology you have no experience with????

Jack Rickard
Jack Rickard




> Cor van de Water wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jack,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jack,
=

Perhaps Cor's tone go under you skin a bit, but he is actually correct. Yo=
u have the potential to start ruining individual cells towards the end of t=
heir capacity if you are depending on the string voltage as your empty indi=
cator. How likely you are to do this depends on many factors and one that =
you seem to have in your favor is that you have picked an overall cutout vo=
ltage that is on the high end using the 3 volts per cell number.
=

The problem is that over time and with multiple cycle the cells will start =
to drift apart. The only way to really know what the state of each cell is=
is to take it out of the pack and run a discharge test on it. Once one ce=
ll gets toasted the whole pack is weaker, but not to a degree that you noti=
ce, which puts the next weakest cell in danger etc... By the time you do f=
eel something wrong you actually have several dead cells and need to find t=
hem and weed them out.
=

A couple of things you can do to avoid this scenario. Keep the entire pack =
at the same temperature and within a good operating temperature, not too ho=
t and not too cold. Be sure your cells are individually charged frequently=
enough to bring each cell to it's maximum capacity. Do not push your pack=
to the limit, stay well within the capability of your pack. These are all=
general practices that are relevant regardless of the battery chemistry.
=

Personally, I have been running flooded Nicad cells for a number of years. =
At only 1.2 volts per cell it is really tough to know when an individual c=
ell is in trouble by the overall string voltage. =

=

I too have learned the hard way how easy it is to destroy a cell.
=

damon
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:07:17 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower, Thunde=
rSky, or Seiden
> > > Cor:
>
> You seem quite sure of a number of things, with very little information. =

=

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. =

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h=
owitworks_012009
_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack Rickard wrote:
> 
> > The cells in my pack are surprisingly in balance at all
> > phases, but of course you are correct that each cell will
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jack Rickard wrote:
> >Bottom line is I don't believe you. And I quite intend to find out all
> by
> >myself. The cells are now recharged and rather than "murdered" they
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 12 Jan 2009 at 14:07, Jack Rickard wrote:
> 
> > Bottom line is I don't believe you. And I quite intend to find out all by
> > myself.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jack, an' EVerybody;

One of the origional"Doubting Thomases" here. Tell me all about how well 
these batteries are doing in a few years? Not next week.I don't like to rain 
on anybodies' parade, but I'll sit confortably on the sidelines,Cussing my 
shitty Led Acids, til I see REAL results? As Cor sez, a Battery Management 
system is probably a very important part of the care and feeding of these 
exhotic batteries?Or can you just BLAST them, now and again to equilize 
them, as somebody said all bad-eries AREN'T created equil, and driving a few 
years will probably set them apart, BIG time?And with China's trak record on 
refunds on bum ones? MAYBE IF they work out a US Agent will come on line and 
sell them here, with gaurantees?And buying with, say, a credit card, so you 
would have some recourse IF yur battery pack bails out on you, UNDER 
warrentee?

Actually, I'm glad to see Jack stepping forward, as a test pilot for ALL 
of us!!How many other of us have the balls an' bux to do this? Thank you 
Jack!

Seeya

Bob, STILL using 19th century tech, and NOT liking it!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Rickard" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower, 
ThunderSky, or Seiden


>
> Cor:
>
> You seem quite sure of a number of things, with very little information.
> By "sag" I'm talking about the decrease in voltage caused by an immediate
> current discharge. This is entirely different from a discharge curve.
>
> The cells do not dive to zero and reverse. There is a rather steep drop 
> off
> from about 3.0 volts thereafter.
>
> The cells in my pack are surprisingly in balance at all phases, but of
> course you are correct that each cell will have a slightly different
> capacity and discharge curve. I've actually been amazed at how closely
> these cells track, much better than SLA batteries.
>
> Bottom line is I don't believe you. And I quite intend to find out all by
> myself. The cells are now recharged and rather than "murdered" they are
> doing very nicely thank you. Again, I'm amazed at how well they remained 
> in
> balance during charge.
>
> I had had some Seidens and constant problems with the end batteries rising
> in voltage quite a bit beyond the center cells in a 72 volt series pack
> during charge. I'm just not seeing this with the Thunderskys.
>
> I guess at this point I should apologize for not having murdered my pack 
> to
> appease your concept of a battery technology you have no experience 
> with????
>
> Jack Rickard
> Jack Rickard
>
>


> > Cor van de Water wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Jack,
> >>
> ...


----------

