# 2001 MR2 spyder E/V build



## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

If only I had friends I could borrow parts off their cars and take them to florida NQA 

Sounds like a fun project. Suggest building a good EV first, then figuring out the genset part. Be aware some chargers have problems with generator output current, and if you want enough generator power to maintain freeway speed you need about 10kw from the generator, not 3kw. 3kw would extend your range and allow for recharging while parked though, but if part of your goal is a cleaner vehicle, then running a portable generator with its very dirty single cylinder gas engine much at all would quickly negate any gains.

The AC50 setup is a great setup for smaller cars, but is not a high performance system.

If you are looking for technical feedback, it would be useful for us to know your expectations and design plans. See the sticky for new posters.

cheers.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

madderscience said:


> If only I had friends I could borrow parts off their cars and take them to florida NQA
> 
> Sounds like a fun project. Suggest building a good EV first, then figuring out the genset part. Be aware some chargers have problems with generator output current, and if you want enough generator power to maintain freeway speed you need about 10kw from the generator, not 3kw. 3kw would extend your range and allow for recharging while parked though, but if part of your goal is a cleaner vehicle, then running a portable generator with its very dirty single cylinder gas engine much at all would quickly negate any gains.
> 
> ...


I am going to replace the diode pack and get some more juice from the genset. The idea is to add some range and give the ability to charge while stopped. There are ways to have a perfectly clean generator exhaust output, and it by far emits less than a larger, higher output engine on a bad day. I will have this managed, and this will allow for me to use a heater in the colder months. I will have nowhere near 10KW, however, it will be enough to get around. I don't want a high performance system....... yet. I just want to try my hand at this, and have a plug in car. Too bad you don't have any good friends, you just haven't met me yet.

thanks,

Nintendo


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I was a proud member of the www.battleofthebuilds.com Kai Hei Tai team, and am versed in fabrication, and mechanics. I wish I had the machining equipment to do some of the things I want to do. 
Not really sure on the mileage, I think I'll take it a step at a time. I am working with a mid-engi...... errr mid-motor mounted vehicle.
As for performance, I don't want a rocket ship....... yet. I just need something to get the smog doctor off my back.
Money, hmmmmmm. well, I guess you could say I don't have much capital, but I am resourceful, and that goes a long way.
onan generator, 3-phase a/c motor, vw transmission, "I have a few of these just sitting around" I don't know about coupling with a manual or automatic, or if that makes a difference. I am looking to use as few of the electric accesories as possible, to make better use of the mileage as possible.
I am interested in the concept of regenerative acceleration and lenz's law, as well as using an lc circcuit for high frequenct high voltage to achieve better efficiency.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

a useful link for the mr2 spyder.
http://spyderchat.com/specifications.htm


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

ac propulsion t-zero.....DROOL..... ahem, so I just need to get going cheap is probably better, where can I source an a/c 3-phase motor? I have access to DRMO, which is a military salvage operation on base here.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Question time:
if and when I get a motor, who can I send it to to balance it and replace worn bearings, possibly improve overall top end rpms? Is there a shop that specializes in this? I think I may have found a motor, I'm going to pick it up tonight, I'll let you all know more when I do.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

got a couple of motors, will pick up tomorrow, and share my findings, but they appeared to all be three-phase ~ 10 HP up to ~1750 rpm's These motors all came from industrial compressors, big ol things. I also swiped a potentiometer or two. The pots looked rather bulky and industrial sized, but I guess I'll know more when I pick them up tomorrow.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I just realized, like a dummy, that I am in the completely incorrect section of this forum. The reason for this is that I have a link at the top of my browser for the thread for updates. Any way a mod could move it to the correct location?

thanks,

Kevin


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

So, as I understand it, that is if everything that I am reading is correct, I can have my cake and eat it too. I would like to be able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. I would like to be able to travel at up to 7o MPH. I plan to incorporate the transmission into my build. As few electronic devices as possible. I need a source of vacuum "volkwagen diesel vacuum pump" I will be using a generator to augment my power during trips. I need a lot of help. I want ~240v for this baldor motor, or do I need a more efficient one with higher rpms? as I take it, the torque should be able to start the vehicle in third or fourth right?. There are some obvious modifications and setup to perform on the car "measurements etc first to get everything ready. I can solder, and make my own boards with components, I just need schematics so that isn't a problem. So, 240v setup, would be 10 24v batteries, or 100 2.4v batteries, amp hours are an important factor ere the higher being more desireable for my application I have a converter from 24v to 12v handles up to 20A continuous, that is enough to run any accessories. I have most of the stuff I really would have had to pay a lot of money for, I need batteries and the converter now right. I am still researching this. I apologize for any misspellings, my keyboard is going out. The motor pictures and info is coming, I'll pick up some more tomorrow.

Kevin


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Picture time, as promised:








a picture capturing my sploder, and the car that this motor will ultimately go into, I know, the cover leaves a lot to the imagination, but that comes later.

you can see the pretty nitrogen filled rubbers in this pic. The wheels are offset, rears being taller and wider.








the front

My neighbor, and the other side of the car.

this is the motor I wanted to get, attatched to a pallet, it is BIG.








High drag, low speed LOL but 40 HP WHOO HOO!








oh, yeah! takes up a whole doggone pallet by itself.








a 10 horse motor 30-28/14A 208-230/460V 1725rpms baldor motor, freebie, got it from the scrappers before they pulled it from a dumpster.








the whole pic, in the back of the sploder








gotta figure out how it is wired, looks like it couldn't handle more than 25A though, pretty low guage wire. I would like to seek to have it re-wound for more efficiency, and changed/balanced to rotate faster without detonation "tee hee"








another freebie








another shot








yet another freebie

interesting, well that is all for now. I have more to come, motors that is. anyone interested in getting one can pm me later. There is new construction, and the old compressors are being replaced "hint: that is where these motors came from"


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

So let me get this straight, at higher voltages the current useage goes down, and the same amount of work can be performed under load? If that is true all that is necessary is a transformer, Input could be 24vdc, and output could be MUCH higher "my other hobby is high voltage experiments" I repair radio equipment for a living. This is different, applying this to mechanical motion than to driving a circuit. The only real problem is increasing Ah as a whole, 24v for 200Ah shouldn't be rediculous to achive right? tell me if I'm wrong here, perhaps I need a better perspective. Transformers are very efficient and to step up the total voltage to 480v at 14A would not be unachieveable. I have the equipment, the inverter would simply be on the dc end closest to the batteries. I have a transformer for the job. Originally it took in 240v 3-phase and converted to 24v at higher amperage for military radio sets, and various other equipment. My question now is wether an air coil would be feasable in this application or would a ferrite core be the ticket?


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

so my buddy chris, sent me a message, he says:
The MR2 is a sleek car, but it will still need 15-20 horsepower to cruise at 70, more climbing hills. How do you plan on powering a 3-phase motor from batteries? It is difficult to run a 3 phase motor from a 220v household clothes dryer socket, (single phase), much less a DC source. You will likely need a different motor. Also, if you have good aerodynamics and low rolling resistance and can cruise at 70 for 15 horsepower, (11190 watts), with an efficient motor at 85%, (13165 watts), do that for long enough to drive a theoretical 200 flat straight nonstop miles, (37.6kwh). If you modify a 3kw genset an manage to get 4kw, you could generate 11.4kw during the trip. To make it to your destination with the generator running without stopping to charge, you need 26.2kwh from your batteries. Deep cycle lead acids can not be discharged beyond 50% state of charge repeatedly without damage, so figure 52.4kwh of batteries. That would be a 96 volt bank of batteries with a capacity of 3275 amp hours. You could get that much power from 160 GC2 deep cycle batteries. At 70 lbs each, the battery would only weigh 5.6 tons and cost about $20,000. Other types of batteries are lighter, but significantly more expensive. Sorry if the numbers don't look good, but there is a reason tesla roadsters cost a zillion dollars and can barely go over 200 on a charge if you go easy on them. The tech just isn't there yet.

YOWZA! this is really what I was looking for, anyone can try to rationalize the math in their minds, a little at a time from the information found on the site here. What I needed was perspective, and chris buddy, you just gave it to me. Not a complete game changer, but now I can rework things to make this a reality.


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

NintendoKD said:


> 24v for 200Ah shouldn't be rediculous to achive right? tell me if I'm wrong here, perhaps I need a better perspective. Transformers are very efficient and to step up the total voltage to 480v at 14A would not be unachieveable.


24V x 200AH would not be difficult, and could give 16 mile range, minus losses, inefficiencies, and DOD limitations. Transformers can be efficient, but certainly not 100%. A 200V system running at 200V will be more efficient than a 24V system running at 200V. 

A 480V system running at 14A would ideally give the same power as a 120V system running at 56A, ie not much.

A 200 mile range is very difficult with today's batteries, but who really needs that? 50 is pretty easy.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Heh, he told me his math was wrong, blamed it on the calc. I would need 2200 lbs of deep cycle batteries. I want to find a liion supplier and build my own cells. In fact, I think I'll just build all of my own circuits.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> 24V x 200AH would not be difficult, and could give 16 mile range, minus losses, inefficiencies, and DOD limitations. Transformers can be efficient, but certainly not 100%. A 200V system running at 200V will be more efficient than a 24V system running at 200V.
> 
> A 480V system running at 14A would ideally give the same power as a 120V system running at 56A, ie not much.
> 
> A 200 mile range is very difficult with today's batteries, but who really needs that? 50 is pretty easy.


so what I need is a battery bank that supports 240v? so 240v @56A is all the way wound out to lets say the rpm limit of the motor 1750rpms? I am still trying to understand this motor buisness and am not farmilliar with all of the terminology. I need to prevent from changing hands as much as possible "talking efficiency" right? electrically speaking voltage is rather easy to increase with relatively low losses, however, current is a whole nother animal, you need thicker cables, stronger contacts, this is why I would rather run higher voltage and lower current, but 480 @ 14A is ~6720W, and so is 240v @ 56A is~6720W, I understand that there is no "free cake" I want the most efficient way to go about it.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

looked here to determine optimum efficiency. The way I understand things, the larger, higher output motors tend to have lower and lower total rpms. so, a 3/4 hp motor is capable of turning 13000 rpm's and has about 50% efficiency, whereas a 40HP motor turns 1175rpms and has~88.5% efficiency. so the obvious chioce is to choose the 40 HP motor, overall efficiency is better. It isn't hat simple though, total voltage ampereage, and other factors come into play and make this whole process very difficult to decide on. *frustrated*
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motor-efficiency-d_655.html


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, perhaps I could have the motor re-wound to accomodate a more feasable voltage. Originally I thought just use a transformer, but the motor essentially is a transformer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaWrr5xQu7Y&feature=related


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

NintendoKD said:


> so what I need is a battery bank that supports 240v? so 240v @56A is all the way wound out to lets say the rpm limit of the motor 1750rpms?


You could make a system that averages [email protected] 240V (13.4kW) but you will want your peak power to be higher than that. Most batteries will handle at least 2-300 amps no problem anyway.

A controller acts as a transformer, and yes you want it to be the only one. The motor is just the means of turning the electrical power into mechanical a mechanical force.

Do you already have a motor?


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> You could make a system that averages [email protected] 240V (13.4kW) but you will want your peak power to be higher than that. Most batteries will handle at least 2-300 amps no problem anyway.
> 
> A controller acts as a transformer, and yes you want it to be the only one. The motor is just the means of turning the electrical power into mechanical a mechanical force.
> 
> Do you already have a motor?


 I have a 10HP baldor from the pictures "the gray one" specs are listed above, I can procure more motors, and am currently in the process of doing so.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> You could make a system that averages [email protected] 240V (13.4kW) but you will want your peak power to be higher than that. Most batteries will handle at least 2-300 amps no problem anyway.
> 
> A controller acts as a transformer, and yes you want it to be the only one. The motor is just the means of turning the electrical power into mechanical a mechanical force.
> 
> Do you already have a motor?


 why would I need to have peak power higher than that. As I understand it true HP and Torque numbers are from the controller, and not necessarily from the batteries. "the batteries obviously matter" how/what is the most efficient way to utilize the genset? augment three phase from the genset to assist the motor? or convert to dc and not-so-efficiently charge the batteries?

thanks,

Nintendo


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

Because that's enough power to move a VW bug, slowly.

The most efficient way to charge the batteries would be through a DC generator, not converting it to AC and back to DC.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> Because that's enough power to move a VW bug, slowly.
> 
> The most efficient way to charge the batteries would be through a DC generator, not converting it to AC and back to DC.


 sure. Now to source a good dc genset, or is there a way to use the one I have as a brush DC? The onan I have is a brush A/C


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I guess, upon a closer inspection, my questions all appear to be statements, and as such make it appear that I know what I am talking about, which I don't. I know that everything that I thought I knew must be wrong, which is why I need help and advice, I just need a face-to-face with someone to explain all of this to me to grasp it. This isn't my usual learning method, I'm usually self-taught, by just figuring it out but the easiest way for me to lear is with one-on-one experience, or hands on.

thanks,

Nintendo


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

looking for my local chapter of electric auto association.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

now a member of the palm springs chapter, a lot like facebook


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## Ziggythewiz (May 16, 2010)

NintendoKD said:


> now a member of the palm springs chapter, a lot like facebook


You would hope it would be quite the opposite. You want facetime with actual EV owners, while Facebook is far less useful than any virtual forum.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Ziggythewiz said:


> You would hope it would be quite the opposite. You want facetime with actual EV owners, while Facebook is far less useful than any virtual forum.


 already talked to a member, on the phone. the layout and overall concept seems a lot like fb, but in reality, it is nothing like, this is certainly more productive. and....... forums are the bomb


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Qouting PStechPaul here: "
I don't have experience with large motors as used in EVs used for passenger cars and trucks, but I have done extensive reading and I have these books:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own.../dp/0830642315
http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Motor...ref=pd_sim_b_5
and one or two others.

After learning about the pros and cons of various motor types, especially for vehicle application, I decided that the three phase induction motor was the best overall, for reasons of cost, ruggedness, low maintenance, and ease of control. They can be tweaked for maximum efficiency at low torque, and can operate at up to 3 or 4 times rated torque before stalling. They can be used for regeneration and dynamic braking, and can be overclocked to obtain perhaps 2-4 times the HP at higher speeds and voltages.

I know that BLDCs are extremely popular, but they tend to be more expensive, and relatively fragile, with catastrophic failure modes. The advantages are small size, high efficiency, and high peak power and torque.

For raw power and torque, the series wound motor can be pushed as high as 10x rating, but only for short durations and at the expense of fast wear and damage to brushes and commutators. They are also difficult to control and don't make good generators.

So, yes, there are ways to "boost" the output from any motor. The limitations are as you have noted, based on temperature, conductivity of windings, voltage limitations of insulation, demagnetization, and mechanical stress and failure at high RPMs and torques beyond the original design specifications. "

Yhis and other reasons are why I want to go with 3-phase, the bigger the better, I am really liking the 4o Horse models, that I saw at the shop that may or may not be good "spin freely, no scorch marks" I want to know more about "overclocking these puppies, or is there a way to incerase the efficiency? I wish to seek this method, even though it is suggested to do a dc conversion first for ease, and price. I have many of the components necessary, I just need batteries, and controllers/charger. I want to do this as efficient as possible, with emphasis on efficiency. I also want to do it right.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

big DERP here, I misspelled and made numerous grammatical errors in my last post "confucious say, remember grandson, haste make waste!" Ok, I am also looking at increasing the efficiency of my onan, and making it less of an environmental polluter. I don't neccesarily mean more output HP wise, but this equates to overall efficiency, and ease of work. I also seek to improve the output of the generator itself, how to do this? I assume that this is similar to what DC motor guys are doing to their motors to improve power output in HP/Torque how to do this? I know that there is a bigger one out there for free, but this will help me to tinker and learn all about these. the generator has single phase output, unless I am mistaken, so adding a diode will allow d/c output to help charge the batteries. I also have a military generator, 24v output @ 400A that came off of a detroit diesel, used in the LAV-25, wonder if output "once upgraded" from the onan can be used to power both?


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

hmmmm doing the math, the gasoline onan just isn't efficient. I keep forgetting everything is about crunching the numbers and squeezing every last ounce from anything I can.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Threephase_motors_101.html
more knowledge, a rotary converter would be tits, but expensive, maybe I can source one through military surplus. maximum power would def. be nice. Still in the planning phase.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I think I have decided, now how to do this is yet to be seen. I will run a large rotary phase converter, combined with a three phase motor, the phase converter will take 220, and convert to three phase and the car will run on that. seems complicated, and heavy, and inefficient, but I want to try. What would be the delicacies of tying the two together? can I connect the two by shaft? andd have an electical switching controller switch on the three phase motor when I want to go? what kind of power can I exspect to get from a setup like this? Lets say I have a 120+v dc cell setup, the + is to account for losses. I would need a controller that outputs 220+vac, and the phase converter would really do the rest. I just need to control the input to the phase controller at that point then everything will be peachy, and I'll go with the wind. I just have to put all of this into practice, and add a charging system. how to use a car with 2, 3, phase and DC all with a common ground? will I need to use different commons? at some point there will be bleed over and back emf. Boy, I need some help here.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

found more info here:
http://www.nojolt.com/how-to-build-a-rotary-phase-converter.shtml


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

found some more good info on common 3-phase setups. I want to run variable speed, at maximum power, is this possible with the setup described?
http://www.patchn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=34


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Just paroused baldors line of high efficiency 3-phase motors and HOLY CRAP!!! the 150 horse look pretty nice, and appear to be very reasonably priced. Too bad my pockets aren't that deep, wish I could get a loan for just building an all electric car, like say, about 50,000 bones, then I could build a snappy thing with my spyder, and afford a nice paint job too boot. wonder what I could sell something like that for? oh well, flight of fancy for today.


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## GuySmily (May 11, 2012)

I noticed you disappeared from SpyderChat. Funny to find you over here.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I didn't dissapear, I posted over there too, good to hear from you guy, I could use a lot of help. http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthread.php?51724-new-performance-category-ev-swap
I acqired som ot guage cable, already has ends on it, originally for military NATO connections, for 28+VDC @ 500+ADC I have about 10 20ft sections. and can get plenty more, I also picked up a LARGE Generator from an LAV"logistics vehicle, I think", came off of the big detroit diesels that they run. Looking to finish my planning by friday and start getting seriou on this build. I'll post some pictures


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

pictures, as promised:
fine thread magnetic copper, twisted and braided, thick stuff, with heavy duty connectors.








six total 20ft sections, did I mention I have access to more?








BIG generator, from a detroit diesel, out of an LAV, military surplus, I don't know if it works.








that is all for now, more to come


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Wow, just did some shopping, I have ~ 500bones in copper cable, just sitting in my sploder. Kind of humbling.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

Ok, lets talk turkey. Planning this thing out, I want to make similar power number to what was originally in the car. The 1zzfe that was originally in the car, and put out anywhere from 120HP to 140 HP, lets just split the difference and try for 130. Now lets say my baldor 10HP motor can put that down without dissintegrating. To get that, 1 watt being ~.00134HP I would need ~100,000watts, CHRIST!, that is a little bit of juice. So lets just say I have 90v battery bank, and step up the voltage to 90,000, I would need just 10A of power to power the motor, ah... but it isn't that easy is it? there are losses to account for. In reality, I would need a 120v battery system. to invert and push voltage to 90,000 at 10 AMPS, even then, I would be pulling ~833.333 amps from the batteries, lets just say 850A "losses remember?" am I getting on track here? What I want to do is invert the power to three phase, and step up the voltage, effectively lowering the amp consumption on the motor, relieving some stress, however won't this create a breakdown voltage situation with the laquer on the windings? I have lots of questions, need an electrical engineer. Ok, back on track here, I still need a frequency converter to change motor rpms right? So, my plan, is to use a rotary gap LC circuit, or tesla coil as some circles call it to invert DC and drive the motor to 100,000W, or ~134HP. or am I completely wrong here?


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

The generator is one from a detroit diesel of canada manufacturing. brushless DC alternator generator. 24VDC @~220A so ~5,250KVA, not bad, so horsepower needed to drive 5250, would be ~7.1HP I could get that from my onan gas engine, it is like a 10 HP motor, so I can hook this thing up and get 5.2 KW instead of 3, and it is already DC, when it comes out. Nice!


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## GuySmily (May 11, 2012)

If you don't oppose, I'll start compiling info here with you since I'm nowhere near starting my own build, and I figure it doesn't hurt to share info for the same car. I will probably do a "dream build" thread of my own, at least.

I took some really rough (+/- at least 1") measurements in the engine bay, to see where batteries could fit. If the electric motor isn't too tall, you could fit 34" x 16" x 11" of batteries against the firewall / under the soft top, and another 34" x 10" x 18" in the mufler area. No idea what kind of pack that amounts to, but I'd like to keep batteries out of the frunk and rear storage bins if possible. (For those not familiar with the car, we have a large spare tire bin under the front hood, and cubbies behind the seat).

I'm sure when the gas tank is gone, there's space there as well, but I'm worried because a 12gal tank is only 1.6 ft^3. I have no idea what the dimensions are, but you can guesstimate battery box size by playing with these dimensions: https://www.google.com/search?q=(36*13*6)+in^3+to+gal










Something I totally forgot about was the axle carrier on the back of our 1zz - something that other 1zzs (Corolla/Matrix at least) don't have.

Luckily, someone else has thought of this already. Seeing this picture is almost freaky, but it's comforting to know this has done this before.

http://rebirthauto.com/rebirthautotoyotamr2adapterwithhalfshaftmountingsystem.aspx

Shame the MR2 logo won't be visible when installed.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

GuySmily said:


> If you don't oppose, I'll start compiling info here with you since I'm nowhere near starting my own build, and I figure it doesn't hurt to share info for the same car. I will probably do a "dream build" thread of my own, at least.
> 
> I took some really rough (+/- at least 1") measurements in the engine bay, to see where batteries could fit. If the electric motor isn't too tall, you could fit 34" x 16" x 11" of batteries against the firewall / under the soft top, and another 34" x 10" x 18" in the mufler area. No idea what kind of pack that amounts to, but I'd like to keep batteries out of the frunk and rear storage bins if possible. (For those not familiar with the car, we have a large spare tire bin under the front hood, and cubbies behind the seat).
> 
> ...


GUY..... *drools* Do WANT!, where do I get that sexiness?
ok, I went here, and I soon realized that I should have gonet here first, there is a lot of info here: My build will be a little different, I am going to use an 02Q, or 02M, transmission from a volkswagen "a throwback from wanting to install the vw turbodiesel engine" There is another reason, I want a transmission that will not grenade on me, when I put some power through it. The VolksYota is just on hold for now, I have not given up on my dream. "electric cars are for girls" has a metric crapton of information and is very useful, I still need to source a shop to re-wind a motor for me, or at least a good place to recycle all of the single speed motors that I have acquired "HEAVY!"

you are the best GUY

An Idea that I have been playing around with, is low friction bearings, coupled with placing the rotor assy. into a vacuum "which would prove to be rather difficult" for cooling and for other reasons, I know that some interesting things happen inside of a vacuum and am a bit curious about how it will effect the operation of an induction motor.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I think that keeping some weight in the rear/middle of the car is a wise idea, as the original intent of the car was to be close to a 50/50 weight ratio, in this respect, lion batteries are almost a necessity from an enthusiasts perspective, I think that removing as many useless accessories, equipment from the car and taking measurements for free space would come first, then measure components before they go in would be the best way to go about design. I want to do this, but I want to do it right the first time.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

ok, so I have a new renewed effort in building my EV. A very enthusiastic gentleman has given me a large high efficiency baldor 3-phase 20 HP motor. I have a motor in the ballpark of what I want to achieve. I will go with lead acid for now, and buy up as I save money. I know most of the major components that are going to be necessary, like a FDM, BMS, charger, batteries, inverter, and I want to go high voltage, so I need all of the non, major components, like what wire to use, I have ot guage copper, for DC and welding, and for the batteries, but what about for everything else? connectors, safeties, etc?


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I want to keep A/C, and I know of a way to make a good heater, using an A/C style pulley with a switch "I'll leave that a secret for now, but a hint is lenz's law". I know I'll use some supercaps for heavy draw, to augment the batteries, and make better use of them.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

so I searched here: www.car-part.com
and am currently looking for cheap battery packs, from hybrid vehicles to make my EV at a more affordable price, and give me better range, and more power at lower cost.


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## jkeller1ca (Jul 30, 2009)

Cool! I was surprised when I saw that photo of the mount from my MR2 Spyder. I had the guys from Rebirth Auto make that for me, as you found out. Now that they have the pattern for the transmission, they should be able to make an adapter to fit any motor you want. 

For what it's worth, I completed my MR2 Spyder conversion about a year and a half ago. It's been my daily driver ever since. See:

http://www.evalbum.com/4003

For all the specs.

One thing to keep in mind. This car is VERY light and has ALMOST NO cargo capacity from the factory. I ended up ripping out nearly everything that wasn't bolted down to keep the weight under control. AC gone. Radiator gone. Carbon fiber hood and trunk. So much wiring, gone. I even put in a lightweight stereo and speaker system (10 lbs!) Even after all that, I cannot take a passenger heavier than a hundred pounds or so without exceeding the GVWR of the car, it's that close. 

This summer, I'm looking at swapping in the beatup old ADC FB4001A you see in the picture with a Warp Impulse 9". With that, some extreme rewiring to reduce the amount of 2/0 and 4/0 I use, new lightweight seats, redoing some battery pack mounts with chromolly tube, and skipping some McDonalds, I hope to shave another 50 pounds off the car. 

But all said and done, it is a blast to drive! Top down, 85^H^H65 mph on the highway, with just the wind and tire noise. Quite a difference from the buzzy little motor originally in the thing.

Let me know if you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. What I SHOULD do is get off my butt and post some photos.


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## jkeller1ca (Jul 30, 2009)

NintendoKD said:


> I think that keeping some weight in the rear/middle of the car is a wise idea, as the original intent of the car was to be close to a 50/50 weight ratio, in this respect, lion batteries are almost a necessity from an enthusiasts perspective.


I agree, you'll probably want a Lion pack. Keep in mind that the MR2 Spyder is a lightweight rear-wheel drive car. The stock weight distribution is 44/56 (front/rear) and is very sensitive to weight distribution. Look up "snap oversteer" and "lift-off oversteer" for some cautions about the MR2 design. I was able to push the distribution forward a bit from stock, 48/52 which seems to help keep the car in-line even at more neutral tire alignments. But, yeah, take your time and have fun.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

jkeller1ca said:


> I agree, you'll probably want a Lion pack. Keep in mind that the MR2 Spyder is a lightweight rear-wheel drive car. The stock weight distribution is 44/56 (front/rear) and is very sensitive to weight distribution. Look up "snap oversteer" and "lift-off oversteer" for some cautions about the MR2 design. I was able to push the distribution forward a bit from stock, 48/52 which seems to help keep the car in-line even at more neutral tire alignments. But, yeah, take your time and have fun.


spyderchat member bro, look me up, guy smiley is on here too surprise.

what are your specs? power? total power avail. motor output? controller, DC setup right? I am going with A/C so for now I need to find a good re-winding service. good to finally hear from someone.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Just a quick note about the motor rewinding. Depending on the winding pattern you might be able to reconnect the existing belts in parallel rather than series. I know that it is a fairly common practice to rewire from star to delta in order to get 138V rather than 240, but for higher pole numbers, AFAIK, each pole consists of several identical sequences wound in series. But if you separate them, you might be able to wire them in parallel, which will eliminate a total rewind and will allow use of thinner wire which is easier to work with, and also may have a higher fill factor. 

And the other thing to consider is that the usual reason for rewinding is to run on a lower voltage battery pack. But if you can make a battery pack for 288V or even as much as 640V, you can use standard 480V drive components and still get V/F boosts up to 3x, which may be the practical limit before core losses predominate.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

thanks for the heads up


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

A123 3.6vdc @ 24ah
for 650vdc 181 are needed @ 24 ah each pack
4 packs are 724 batteries total @ 76 ah total
A123 32113
$8.00 each $5,792.00 for the packs
discharging current at 2.5C or 5 A making for 20 A total.
46.5 g each 33.666g total 33,666kg
http://www.batteryjunction.com/oneli18322ma.html ~74 lbs

Looking at the lithium route, it looks very promising. The weight is very low, but the price is not really that high considering it wouldn't move at all with lead acids at this voltage. I will be building my own custom controller with igbts, and the fro board. I will also be using a BMS for the lithiums to protect my investment. Building a charger shouldn't be too much trouble, 220 in at half an amp or so should do the trick without taxing the packs.\
the motor will be turned by three phase 460vac and about 20A, so no big deal I have some room for overages minus the losses...... I think. how do I figure for range? I want to use a rear end from a rav 4 and am not sure of the gearing I should use. I am using a straight baldor industrial motor hooked to te diff 20 hp, can be overdriven about three times safely for short periods so 60~hp max and the car still stays right around its stock weight.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

It seems your proposed battery pack is about 724*3.6*24 = 62kWh. 

So if you can achieve 250 Wh/mile you might get as much as 248 mile range, but realistically and depleting to about 75% and with losses you will probably safely get 150 miles. Pretty good! 

But I question how you can get 62kWh for under $6000. 

So I check the link and the batteries are actually 2.4 Ah. Now all the calculations are off by a factor of ten. So you might get 15-25 mile range. And you are paying $5792 for 6.2 kWh. If you use 200*20Ah*3.2V cells from http://www.electriccarinternational.com/Lithium-Prismatic-Batteries.php at $25 each you will get 12.8 kWh for 30-50 mile range for $5000, so twice the range for the same cost, and a lot easier to use than the cells you are considering.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm a dummy, I looked again and you are right. Guess I got a little hasty and didn't move the decimal enough. The object is to drive the igbt three phase circuit with enough juice to put out 460 @ 20 a but if I so desire run @ 220 at the higher current. For the most bang for the buck out of the batteries.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

We all make mistakes. 

Still, for the same cost, the batteries I found will give you twice the energy for the same cost. At 20 Ah and 650V you can get 13kW or almost 20HP at 1C, and 60 HP (45 kW) at 2.5C. 200 pieces would be 366 lb which is not excessive. But the batteries are shipped ocean freight with 8-12 week delivery. If you could spring for 20 kWh they offer free shipping. Or you can get 2-4 week air shipping but at unknown cost. 

You could also just get 100 pieces for 325V and run the motor on 240 VAC and then upgrade later to get the power and range you want. Not a bad deal for $2500.


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## NintendoKD (Apr 29, 2012)

thanks paul, back to the drawing board, I have to figure out how, and where I am going to put those things in the car at the dimensions described. Planning, planning, and more planning, I'm not complaining, but it gets old quick. one little mistake, and you are back to the ol drawing board


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## gluefish (Mar 3, 2015)

Another old timer from Spyderchat joins the EC conversation. As you may know, I bought an '01 Spyder last May (my 2nd, I had a yellow one in '05 through '08, which is why I say I'm an old timer on Spyderchat)... couldn't resist it after test driving it, it had a turbo conversion. VERY quick. What I didn't know was that the guy who put the turbo in had it cranked up to 20#, where that poor little 1zzFE couldn't take more than about 8#. Found out the hard way, watching oil and parts dump out on the freeway in September... For some time I have been considering whether to put another 1zz back in it along with the turbo cranked down to 8#, or put a 1zz in it with NA, or get out here on the skinny branches and do an EC. I LIKE the idea of having an EC Spyder.


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