# [EVDL] ain't no app for that



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html

and I found a serial to iPhone cable - 
http://www.slashgear.com/skywire-iphone-serial-cable-allows-remote-telescope-control-28121563/

but I can't find a Zilla control/display program in the app store ;<{

Does anyone know of an iPhone app that is user programmable to take data 
in and display it? I see that there is an OBDII cable and app that 
displays OBDII data - www.gopointtech.com/popmech

This is pretty cool that it's so close. I did see a new e-scooter 
concept that has an iPhone dock and displays SOC along with speed, GPS, 
stereo, etc. using the iPhone. Too bad there weren't 10,000 Zilla's out 
there then we'd have something already. Seems like this could work with 
the Soliton and Netgain too - no need for a shunt - the data is already 
isolated and digital in the controllers, just send it to an iPhone. 
That was the idea with the in-dash PC in my trike but this is even 
better - the user supplies the "touch-screen PC".

-- 
Gary Krysztopik
ZWheelz, LLC - www.ZWheelz.com
Alamo City Electric Auto Association - www.aceaa.org
blog - http://voices.mysanantonio.com/drive_electric_san_antonio/
San Antonio, TX


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to display information from the Netgain controller. 

Does anyone have any tips on how to go about tapping into the CanBus line on the Netgain Controller and then reading the data on an iPhone/iPad?

corbin



> gary wrote:
> 
> > I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Folks,

One of the big problems with these tablets is the lack of serial port. 
Nice thing about them? Bluetooth.
So why not just hook a bluetooth adaptor to the various devices and 
communicate that way? It also allows your tablet to be easily removed 
(thus foiling thieves).

In my copious spare time, I'm looking into something that will 
interface with the Elithion and Azure Dynamics systems using just this 
sort of arrangement. (In other words, not gonna happen really soon).

Cheers,
Peter

On 1/4/2011 8:27 AM, corbin dunn wrote:
> I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to display information from the Netgain controller.
>
> Does anyone have any tips on how to go about tapping into the CanBus line on the Netgain Controller and then reading the data on an iPhone/iPad?
>
> corbin
>
>


> gary wrote:
> >
> >> I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Step one: Use an OBDII (or canbus) to Bluetooth adapter. EXCEPT that a lot
of OBDII adapters don't allow for generalized canbus but only OBDII PID
canbus. It could be difficult to find one that will do canbus in general and
isn't a lot of money. Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money. I've
seen prices of over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...

Step two: Write an app for i*/android as I'm sure nothing currently exists.

I am seriously considering writing a program for android and i* that uses a
bluetooth <--> canbus adapter and supports a variety of EV hardware. Since
the bluetooth adapters that currently exist either suck or cost a kidney, I
also have thought about making my own. Truth be told, though, I have doubts
about the market viability of either. Granted, I'm seeing some interest on
this list.



> corbin dunn <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to display
> > information from the Netgain controller.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, if you are interfacing with Elithion and AD then I'd suggest canbus
and not serial(rs232). Serial comm isn't so great because it's not a bus
topology and you'd have to have an adapter for each device. In theory a
bluetooth host should be able to connect to 8 other devices but I wouldn't
bet money that android or i* hardware will actually do it. Using canbus with
one bluetooth adapter for all hardware is much more convenient from both a
software and a hardware perspective.



> Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Collin,

I found a CANBus <--> USB converter so it would be easy to add a USB 
<--> Bluetooth converter to the end of that chain.  The CANBus 
converter turns all the binary into text, though.

Cheers,
Peter

On 1/4/2011 9:25 AM, Collin Kidder wrote:
> Step one: Use an OBDII (or canbus) to Bluetooth adapter. EXCEPT that a lot
> of OBDII adapters don't allow for generalized canbus but only OBDII PID
> canbus. It could be difficult to find one that will do canbus in general and
> isn't a lot of money. Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money. I've
> seen prices of over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...
>
> Step two: Write an app for i*/android as I'm sure nothing currently exists.
>
> I am seriously considering writing a program for android and i* that uses a
> bluetooth<--> canbus adapter and supports a variety of EV hardware. Since
> the bluetooth adapters that currently exist either suck or cost a kidney, I
> also have thought about making my own. Truth be told, though, I have doubts
> about the market viability of either. Granted, I'm seeing some interest on
> this list.
>
>


> corbin dunn<[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> >> I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to display
> >> information from the Netgain controller.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Collin Kidder scribbled:
> Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money. I've seen prices of
over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...

Not so much anymore!

OBDII Bluetooth adapter that CLAIMS to support CANbus:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16921 $54

http://www.amazon.com/BLUETOOTH-DIAGNOSTIC-SCANNER-VAG-COM-SCANTOOL/dp/B
003MQ89X4 $49

I've got 3 from dealextreme on order, and my Electrical Engineering pal
says that because it's based on the ELM327 chipset it *should* do
CANBus. Planning to hook 'em up to two '07 Prius and whatever POS he
drives (my personal POS 1991 Camry is too old to have an OBD-II port)...

As far as software for ICE vehicles, there's Torque (android), LapLogger
(Blackberry) and Rev by DevToaster (iPhone) -- perhaps collaboration
with these folks would yield something for EV's though I'd really rather
prefer something open source so that any EV'er or small
manufacturer/developer could easily (and profitably) extend the
technology. So far I've just found the open source SocketCAN drivers
donated to the Linux kernel by Volkswagen research, but these may prove
useful.

I must admit that I don't know a ton about ICE CANbus and ziltch about
CANBus on an EV conversion. Does it still function? Does the EV bits
and pieces report on the glider's CANbus? Most of my knowledge comes
from Wikipedia's entry and subsequent links on CANBus, but we're going
to be delving into it pretty deep for an upcoming project so knowing
about EV's ability to report would be nice...

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Collin Kidder
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:25 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ain't no app for that

Step one: Use an OBDII (or canbus) to Bluetooth adapter. EXCEPT that a
lot
of OBDII adapters don't allow for generalized canbus but only OBDII PID
canbus. It could be difficult to find one that will do canbus in general
and
isn't a lot of money. Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money.
I've
seen prices of over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...

Step two: Write an app for i*/android as I'm sure nothing currently
exists.

I am seriously considering writing a program for android and i* that
uses a
bluetooth <--> canbus adapter and supports a variety of EV hardware.
Since
the bluetooth adapters that currently exist either suck or cost a
kidney, I
also have thought about making my own. Truth be told, though, I have
doubts
about the market viability of either. Granted, I'm seeing some interest
on
this list.

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 11:27 AM, corbin dunn
<[email protected]>wrote:

> I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to
display
> information from the Netgain controller.
>
> Does anyone have any tips on how to go about tapping into the CanBus
line
> on the Netgain Controller and then reading the data on an iPhone/iPad?
>
> corbin
>
>


> gary wrote:
> >
> > > I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16921 $54

I tried to order something from this site and they never verified my attempts to 
create an account, even
after sending several requests.
Have you had any luck with them, or is this your first order?
If you do receive your order let us know how it works out.
Rod


----- Original Message ----
From: "Childress, Matthew" <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 12:57:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ain't no app for that

Collin Kidder scribbled:
> Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money. I've seen prices of
over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...

Not so much anymore!

OBDII Bluetooth adapter that CLAIMS to support CANbus:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16921 $54

http://www.amazon.com/BLUETOOTH-DIAGNOSTIC-SCANNER-VAG-COM-SCANTOOL/dp/B
003MQ89X4 $49

I've got 3 from dealextreme on order, and my Electrical Engineering pal
says that because it's based on the ELM327 chipset it *should* do
CANBus. Planning to hook 'em up to two '07 Prius and whatever POS he
drives (my personal POS 1991 Camry is too old to have an OBD-II port)...

As far as software for ICE vehicles, there's Torque (android), LapLogger
(Blackberry) and Rev by DevToaster (iPhone) -- perhaps collaboration
with these folks would yield something for EV's though I'd really rather
prefer something open source so that any EV'er or small
manufacturer/developer could easily (and profitably) extend the
technology. So far I've just found the open source SocketCAN drivers
donated to the Linux kernel by Volkswagen research, but these may prove
useful.

I must admit that I don't know a ton about ICE CANbus and ziltch about
CANBus on an EV conversion. Does it still function? Does the EV bits
and pieces report on the glider's CANbus? Most of my knowledge comes
from Wikipedia's entry and subsequent links on CANBus, but we're going
to be delving into it pretty deep for an upcoming project so knowing
about EV's ability to report would be nice...

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Collin Kidder
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:25 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ain't no app for that

Step one: Use an OBDII (or canbus) to Bluetooth adapter. EXCEPT that a
lot
of OBDII adapters don't allow for generalized canbus but only OBDII PID
canbus. It could be difficult to find one that will do canbus in general
and
isn't a lot of money. Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money.
I've
seen prices of over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...

Step two: Write an app for i*/android as I'm sure nothing currently
exists.

I am seriously considering writing a program for android and i* that
uses a
bluetooth <--> canbus adapter and supports a variety of EV hardware.
Since
the bluetooth adapters that currently exist either suck or cost a
kidney, I
also have thought about making my own. Truth be told, though, I have
doubts
about the market viability of either. Granted, I'm seeing some interest
on
this list.

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 11:27 AM, corbin dunn
<[email protected]>wrote:

> I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to
display
> information from the Netgain controller.
>
> Does anyone have any tips on how to go about tapping into the CanBus
line
> on the Netgain Controller and then reading the data on an iPhone/iPad?
>
> corbin
>
> 


> gary wrote:
> >
> > > I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html
> > >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I've used them - they are based in Hong Kong, so sometimes it takes a 
while. It took about two weeks for my order to arrive, so it may not be 
the fastest out there.

Cheers,
Peter

On 1/4/2011 10:06 AM, Rod Hower wrote:
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16921 $54
>
> I tried to order something from this site and they never verified my attempts to
> create an account, even
> after sending several requests.
> Have you had any luck with them, or is this your first order?
> If you do receive your order let us know how it works out.
> Rod
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Childress, Matthew"<[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
> Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 12:57:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] ain't no app for that
>
> Collin Kidder scribbled:
>> Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money. I've seen prices of
> over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...
>
> Not so much anymore!
>
> OBDII Bluetooth adapter that CLAIMS to support CANbus:
>
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16921 $54
>
> http://www.amazon.com/BLUETOOTH-DIAGNOSTIC-SCANNER-VAG-COM-SCANTOOL/dp/B
> 003MQ89X4 $49
>
> I've got 3 from dealextreme on order, and my Electrical Engineering pal
> says that because it's based on the ELM327 chipset it *should* do
> CANBus. Planning to hook 'em up to two '07 Prius and whatever POS he
> drives (my personal POS 1991 Camry is too old to have an OBD-II port)...
>
> As far as software for ICE vehicles, there's Torque (android), LapLogger
> (Blackberry) and Rev by DevToaster (iPhone) -- perhaps collaboration
> with these folks would yield something for EV's though I'd really rather
> prefer something open source so that any EV'er or small
> manufacturer/developer could easily (and profitably) extend the
> technology. So far I've just found the open source SocketCAN drivers
> donated to the Linux kernel by Volkswagen research, but these may prove
> useful.
>
> I must admit that I don't know a ton about ICE CANbus and ziltch about
> CANBus on an EV conversion. Does it still function? Does the EV bits
> and pieces report on the glider's CANbus? Most of my knowledge comes
> from Wikipedia's entry and subsequent links on CANBus, but we're going
> to be delving into it pretty deep for an upcoming project so knowing
> about EV's ability to report would be nice...
>
> [email protected]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Collin Kidder
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:25 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] ain't no app for that
>
> Step one: Use an OBDII (or canbus) to Bluetooth adapter. EXCEPT that a
> lot
> of OBDII adapters don't allow for generalized canbus but only OBDII PID
> canbus. It could be difficult to find one that will do canbus in general
> and
> isn't a lot of money. Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money.
> I've
> seen prices of over $400 for such adapters. No thanks...
>
> Step two: Write an app for i*/android as I'm sure nothing currently
> exists.
>
> I am seriously considering writing a program for android and i* that
> uses a
> bluetooth<--> canbus adapter and supports a variety of EV hardware.
> Since
> the bluetooth adapters that currently exist either suck or cost a
> kidney, I
> also have thought about making my own. Truth be told, though, I have
> doubts
> about the market viability of either. Granted, I'm seeing some interest
> on
> this list.
>
> On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 11:27 AM, corbin dunn
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> I'm also really interested in this. I want to write something to
> display
>> information from the Netgain controller.
>>
>> Does anyone have any tips on how to go about tapping into the CanBus
> line
>> on the Netgain Controller and then reading the data on an iPhone/iPad?
>>
>> corbin
>>
>>


> gary wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html
> >>>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Childress, Matthew


> <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Collin Kidder scribbled:
> > > Canbus to bluetooth adapters are insane money. I've seen prices of
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh... and the other problem with the deal extreme adapters (and their ilk):
They seem to be permanently terminated. So you have to be careful to have
only one other terminated device on the bus.




> Collin Kidder <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

that cable looks interesting. all I wan't is terminal access.

A while back I found a terminal App that could supposedly use the headphone jack as a hardwire connection to a serial device.

I never tried because I'm a chicken when is comes to making hardware for use with my iPhone.

Sent from my iPhone



> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I'm aware of Zillaview - http://www.evgear.com.au/zillaview.html
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'd buy it.

One thing to note is that as I understand it, Apple's iOS does not have a full Bluetooth stack.

Don't really know what that means though.

John

Sent from my iPhone



> Collin Kidder <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Step one: Use an OBDII (or canbus) to Bluetooth adapter. EXCEPT that a lot
> > of OBDII adapters don't allow for generalized canbus but only OBDII PID
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Awesome -- thanks for the head's up -- I scanned over and missed the
second part where you wrote "suck or cost a kidney"... which Kidney
would you recommend??? Still waiting on my ilk/sucker ;-) I believe it
*should* work for our application...

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Collin Kidder
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ain't no app for that

Oh... and the other problem with the deal extreme adapters (and their
ilk):
They seem to be permanently terminated. So you have to be careful to
have
only one other terminated device on the bus.




> Collin Kidder <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah, like I said, I do have a deal extreme adapter and it works. I don't
mean to suggest otherwise. I just find it lacking in some areas. Price is
not one of those areas. ;-)



> Matthew <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > Awesome -- thanks for the head's up -- I scanned over and missed the
> > second part where you wrote "suck or cost a kidney"... which Kidney
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jack,
What Canbus -> Wifi adapter are you using? How are you reading the data from your android app? If you have source code to share, please let me know.

I don't have an adroid device, but i'm hoping the code might get me moving on what to do for the iPhone/iPad.

corbin





> Jack Murray wrote:
> 
> > I've got a CanBus -> Wifi in the works, since the tablet I'm using for my cars only has Wifi, not bluetooth, and laptops all have wifi too.
> > This is much better than serial or USB, no wires.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

John -- the iOS stuff does have a full bluetooth stack, but apple had some special certification they do to allow things to connect to it.

Collin -- the problem with an OBDII connector is that I don't think it will work with the Netgain controller. I'm not hooking up the controller to my car's CANbus (because it doesn't have one), and I simply want to read the data it emits; similar to how the Netgain Interface Module works.

Writing the software isn't the hard part for me. My day job is as a programmer, and I have extensive experience with iPhone development.

corbin




> John wrote:
> 
> > I'd buy it.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Eclipse doesn't seem so bad to me. I really am not a very large proponent of
JAVA though. How does it take four times as long? Aren't you typing most of
the time? Is eclipse somehow slowing down your typing?

The simulator is very slow. That's for sure! That's probably the way to go
if at all possible. The simulator would be a lot quicker if they'd just run
a dalvik interpreter in native code and not try to emulate all of the
hardware. That might work for straight dalvik code but would break down if
you tried to debug NDK stuff. However, you can easily enough use real
hardware through USB to do a lot of your dev testing.



> Jack Murray <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > We used eclipse at work, it takes twice or four times as long to get
> > something done, so what, we are on salary. They made us stop using
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Collin -- the problem with an OBDII connector is that I don't think it will
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Collin Kidder wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:49 PM, corbin dunn <[email protected]>wrote:
> >>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn wrote:
> > Ah, that's the puzzle piece I wasn't aware of! Cool, I'll look for one
> > of those (or make one). It is sort of strange that the Netgain IM uses
> > RJ45, but I guess it was easiest for people to get ahold of.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> corbin dunn <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> > John -- the iOS stuff does have a full bluetooth stack, but apple had some
> > special certification they do to allow things to connect to it.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Guys - so what's the summary - is there an easy way to display CANbus info
from EV components displayed on the Android device? ;-) 

My use case is the following. My open-source design team is developing
chargers and controllers for EVs (see
http://www.emotorwerks.com/cgi-bin/VMcharger.pl for some details if
interested). We are now trying to have our Arduino-based designs to send
data to CAN. That's an easy part with Arduino CANshield. The hard part is to
have that info displayed on the Android device. In our limited tries with
OBDlink bluetooth adapter, we were not successful.
(http://www.scantool.net/obdlink-bluetooth.html - claims to have support for
raw CANbus ISO 11898 protocol.) Current hypothesis is that Android app we
are using (Torque) does not support this raw protocol.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Valery.


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Currently there is no easy way to do that. Torque only supports OBDII and
won't talk to EV hardware. However, I'm currently working on an Android
program to do just that. I've also partnered with an EV company to produce a
raw canbus to bluetooth adapter which is custom designed to be of use in
electric vehicles. Both the app and the dongle are currently in testing but
should be released reasonably soon.




> valerun <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Guys - so what's the summary - is there an easy way to display CANbus
> > info
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> valerun wrote:
> 
> > Anyway, I just got a bit further in this. Have my Arduino broadcasting
> > into CAN and the data is picked up by the Android Torque app BUT I
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> valerun <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Collin - this is great!
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Torque is probably sending OBDII requests that you aren't answering. You'll
have to listen to what it is sending back at you. When you are connected to
the BMW it's ECU is sending the proper replies to Torque. It's likely that
you have to reply when torque asks for data otherwise it will assume that
things are malfunctioning. This is a consequence of trying to use Torque to
do something it wasn't really designed to do. If you are careful then you
should still be able to make it work. Of course, you are limited to only
showing data that torque knows to ask for.

Also, in a functioning canbus system all transceivers will automatically try
to lock in on the proper timing (it can adjust by about 3-4 time quanta plus
or minus to account for timing drift.) So it's also possible that being
connected to the BMW causes there to be enough traffic to synchronize
better. But I'm pretty sure your problem is really found in my first
paragraph.



> valerun <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Collin,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Collin Kidder <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Like Tom said, CANBus timing is pretty tight. Generally you want to be using
> > a crystal as your timing source instead of a resonator. This could be your
> > problem as Arduino boards tend to use resonators. Canbus has diagnostic
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> valerun <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Broader picture-wise, would be interested in your opinion on the
> > overall applicability of CANbus for this. I got a bit alarmed when I
> ...


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