# [EVDL] Chargers



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi, I am going to use a Zivan 220 off board charger and would like some help
on the best place to tap into my pack.
Thanks
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Umm, huh?

The negative lead from the charger connects to the negative terminal of
the battery on the most negative end of the pack and the positive charger
lead connects to the positive terminal of the battery on the other end of
the pack.

I was going to suggest you do a LOT of reading up on basic electronics,
but I couldn't think of a way to say it without sounding condensending,
but what the heck. You're playing with voltges that can be leathal, you
really, REALLY, need to have a very good grasp on electronics.

> Hi, I am going to use a Zivan 220 off board charger and would like some
> help
> on the best place to tap into my pack.
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sam,

There are really very different ways how you can approach this.
Since you use a dedicated (DC) interface, it usually is not good
to use a standard plug, because that could mean that someone
could accidentally plug it into the wall.
Besides, because the load (pack) is always powered, you need to
take precaution to prevent its voltage from being touched, so
you can't use a standard plug, because the load comes with pins
to plug into the source of voltage. That would be a bad idea here.

Since you want the charger offboard, you have some particular
issues that you need to address.
One is if you want to rely on mechanical systems to prevent
access to the pack voltage, or do you want to add an electrical
interlock as well?

I have a large connector that has two high-power contacts that
can carry a lot of current and voltage. But in addition it has
two small contacts between the two larger ones.
Those can be used to carry 12V to engage a contactor which
prevents the pack voltage from being present on the large pins
if you want to have the electrical disconnect.
They could also be used to send a voltage to a drive-interlock
so that you can't take off with the cord still plugged in.

If you are interested in taking over my connectors, these are
two blue Anderson Power Products SBE160 rated for 160A 150V,
then let me know.

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sam Shepherd
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Chargers

Hi, I am going to use a Zivan 220 off board charger and would like some help on the best place to tap into my pack.
Thanks
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

[No message]


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] chargers*

Does anyone have experience with Chinoz chargers?
I have seen a lot of discussion about other popular
chargers, but I understand that Chinoz is offering one
that can do [email protected], and it is isolated.

But it gets programmed in the factory for the pack size
and chemistry. That sounds awfully like a closed-source solution.

Alternatively, do people have a favorite small/light solution
for an isolation transformer? I sort of think I want isolated.
It's not the thing for a guy who uses Open source even for
Internet Routers and his cell phone (soon, anyway 

Thanks
Seth

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*

There is no such thing as a small light isolation transformer (60 hz) that =
I know of. The size and weight of the transformer are somewhat proportiona=
l to the power the transformer is rated for. This is because for higher cu=
rrents the transformer must be wound with thicker wire.

Most lightweight isolated solutions are chargers which use a switching powe=
r supply which allows everything to be much smaller.

If you want to put an isolation transformer in between the line and a charg=
er like a Manzanita PFC or Russco you are probably looking at a minimum of =
a 30 lbs transformer and likely more.

damon



> Alternatively, do people have a favorite small/light solution
> for an isolation transformer? I sort of think I want isolated.
> It's not the thing for a guy who uses Open source even for
> Internet Routers and his cell phone (soon, anyway 
> =

> Thanks
> Seth
> =

> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =


_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=92s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=3Dftp_val_wl_290
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20090715/9145bab3=
/attachment.html =

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*



> Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> > Alternatively, do people have a favorite small/light solution
> > for an isolation transformer? I sort of think I want isolated.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*



> damon henry wrote:
> > There is no such thing as a small light isolation transformer (60 hz)
> > that I know of... If you want to put an isolation transformer in
> > between the line and a charger like a Manzanita PFC or Russco you are
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*

>>About 6.5" diameter x 4" high.

So what about option 2?
GFCI outlet between the charger
and the A/C line. Does that work?

(I suppose I can test it 

Thanks
Seth

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*



> Seth Rothenberg-2 wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with Chinoz chargers?
> > I have seen a lot of discussion about other popular
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*

Yes, it works as long as the car is clean and dry. 

Dirt, water, and acid mist cause nuisance trips.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[email protected]



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] chargers


> >>About 6.5" diameter x 4" high.
> 
> So what about option 2?
> GFCI outlet between the charger
> and the A/C line. Does that work?
> 
> (I suppose I can test it 
> 
> Thanks
> Seth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] chargers*

Can someone recommend a charger that will allow me to charge a single lifep=
o4 200ah cell?

Alan


=

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20091123/0d366745=
/attachment.html =

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*

CgpKdXN0IGFib3V0IGFueSBvZiB0aGVzZSB3b3JrOgoKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5iZ21pY3JvLmNvbS9p
bmRleC5hc3A/UGFnZUFjdGlvbj1WSUVXQ0FUUyZDYXRlZ29yeT05OQoKCkFsYW4gU2hhdy0zIHdy
b3RlOgo+IAo+IENhbiBzb21lb25lIHJlY29tbWVuZCBhIGNoYXJnZXIgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGFsbG93
IG1lIHRvIGNoYXJnZSBhIHNpbmdsZQo+IGxpZmVwbzQgMjAwYWggY2VsbD8KPiDCoAo+IEFsYW4K
PiAKCi0tIApWaWV3IHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpbiBjb250ZXh0OiBodHRwOi8vbjQubmFiYmxlLmNv
bS9jaGFyZ2Vycy10cDc4NjUzNXA3ODY1NDEuaHRtbApTZW50IGZyb20gdGhlIEVsZWN0cmljIFZl
aGljbGUgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBMaXN0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBhcmNoaXZlIGF0IE5hYmJsZS5jb20u
CgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpHZW5lcmFs
IHN1cHBvcnQ6IGh0dHA6Ly9ldmRsLm9yZy9oZWxwLwpVbnN1YnNjcmliZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5l
dmRsLm9yZy9oZWxwL2luZGV4Lmh0bWwjdXN1YgpVc2FnZSBndWlkZWxpbmVzOiBodHRwOi8vZXZk
bC5vcmcvaGVscC9pbmRleC5odG1sI2NvbnYKQXJjaGl2ZSAvIEZvcnVtOiBodHRwOi8vZXZkbC5v
cmcvYXJjaGl2ZS8KU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIG9wdGlvbnM6IGh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5zanN1LmVkdS9t
YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2V2Cgo=


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*

<<< Can someone recommend a charger that will allow me to charge a 
single lifepo4 200ah cell? >>>

With the protection of a BMS, about any 4V power supply should work; 
without a BMS, better make sure you can "tune" it to finish at 3.75V.

Think more
Talk less
Become wise

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*[EVDL] chargers*

This will mainly be a product review on a 2kw Elcon/TC:
http://www.tccharger.com/english/Product/T35/48.html
the 168v/15a version; bought from:
http://www.lithium-car-battery.biz/

I have several KingPan 1.5kw chargers that have proven unreliable. 
They appeared attractive because they could put 9 amps into 150-160v 
for less than $300.

More recently, I was attracted to the above charger because it also 
looked like it has a low cost per charge amp. After getting the 
charger, I was somewhat surprised that it would only put about 13 amps 
into about 150 volts and about 12 amps into 160 volts (45 and 48 cell 
packs) even though it is advertised to put out 15 amps. Neither the 
manufacturer nor the retailer was able or willing to supply current vs 
voltage data.

I was pleased and surprised to find that the charger was almost ideal 
for 48 cells with low voltage (begin by-pass at about 3.4v) miniBMS 
modules. It cuts back to a fraction of an amp as the voltage 
approaches 168. This allows the high cells to by-pass for a long time 
without crossing the high voltage threshold which results in power 
interruption to the chargers. Other chargers in my experience are not 
so well matched to my packs so I have to make other provision for 
balancing. Because my packs contain cells that are not well matched I 
need to balance often.

So, if it keeps working, the new 2kw will become my onboard charger for 
my 48 cell Hyundai; a KingPan 1.5kw and an Elcon 1.5kw can add 7 and 9 
amps respectively to bring my maximum charge rate up to about 27 amps. 
I am thinking of getting some more 2kw models to bring the maximum 
charge rate up near 50 amps; that would be pushing my 40 amp 240vac 
relay. I normally have at least 12 hours between trips so the 2kw 
alone will put in at least 144 ah in that period; that's about 85 miles 
which covers more than 90% of my trips.

When I noticed that Davide had the Russco listed (in error) as 
isolated, I came close to buying one. Will Lee or someone again tell 
me of the risks of using un-isolated chargers?

If anyone wants to take a crack at repairing KingPans, I am willing.

-- 
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 19 days 5 hours 26 minutes

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*

Willie,
12A x 160V = 1920 Watts
13A x 150V = 1950 Watts
So how would that be disappointing for a 2kW charger,
other than the "max 15A" charging rate, which will
likely only be reached at voltages lower than 2kW/15A = 133V 

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:47 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] chargers

This will mainly be a product review on a 2kw Elcon/TC:
http://www.tccharger.com/english/Product/T35/48.html
the 168v/15a version; bought from:
http://www.lithium-car-battery.biz/

I have several KingPan 1.5kw chargers that have proven unreliable. 
They appeared attractive because they could put 9 amps into 150-160v for
less than $300.

More recently, I was attracted to the above charger because it also
looked like it has a low cost per charge amp. After getting the
charger, I was somewhat surprised that it would only put about 13 amps
into about 150 volts and about 12 amps into 160 volts (45 and 48 cell
packs) even though it is advertised to put out 15 amps. Neither the
manufacturer nor the retailer was able or willing to supply current vs
voltage data.

I was pleased and surprised to find that the charger was almost ideal
for 48 cells with low voltage (begin by-pass at about 3.4v) miniBMS
modules. It cuts back to a fraction of an amp as the voltage approaches
168. This allows the high cells to by-pass for a long time without
crossing the high voltage threshold which results in power interruption
to the chargers. Other chargers in my experience are not so well
matched to my packs so I have to make other provision for balancing.
Because my packs contain cells that are not well matched I need to
balance often.

So, if it keeps working, the new 2kw will become my onboard charger for
my 48 cell Hyundai; a KingPan 1.5kw and an Elcon 1.5kw can add 7 and 9
amps respectively to bring my maximum charge rate up to about 27 amps. 
I am thinking of getting some more 2kw models to bring the maximum
charge rate up near 50 amps; that would be pushing my 40 amp 240vac
relay. I normally have at least 12 hours between trips so the 2kw alone
will put in at least 144 ah in that period; that's about 85 miles which
covers more than 90% of my trips.

When I noticed that Davide had the Russco listed (in error) as isolated,
I came close to buying one. Will Lee or someone again tell me of the
risks of using un-isolated chargers?

If anyone wants to take a crack at repairing KingPans, I am willing.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 19 days 5 hours 26 minutes

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*



> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > Willie,
> > 12A x 160V = 1920 Watts
> > 13A x 150V = 1950 Watts
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] chargers*



> Willie McKemie wrote:
> > I have several KingPan 1.5kw chargers that have proven unreliable.
> > They appeared attractive because they could put 9 amps into 150-160v
> > for less than $300...
> ...


----------

