# [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Along with everyone else on this list, I have been chuckling over the big auto maker feeding frenzy with the media this weekend as they try to grab big bucks from the Gov to explore what we already know. But then I caught a curve ball late last night. A certain oil company that begins with the letters Exxon, put on a commercial about a researcher of theirs coming up with a 1000 fold increase in energy density for Lithium Ion Plastic by using thin film technology. 

I don't doubt that Exxon either funds research or has bought a battery company, after all Shell funds the research into algea oil. I'm just wondering if there is any truth to the ad about the new battery technology, or if it premature media-fication? Does anyone know?

Mike




_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Michael Johnson wrote:
> > Exxon, put on a commercial about a researcher of theirs coming up
> > with a 1000 fold increase in energy density for Lithium Ion Plastic
> > by using thin film technology... I'm just wondering if there is any
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

More than likely one of their researchers came up w/ a patent they can use 
to block lithium battery commercialization...big money..... big lawyers...any 
excuse....


In a message dated 6/18/2008 12:14:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email protected] writes:


Message: 31
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Johnson <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Along with everyone else on this list, I have been chuckling over the big 
auto maker feeding frenzy with the media this weekend as they try to grab big 
bucks from the Gov to explore what we already know. But then I caught a curve 
ball late last night. A certain oil company that begins with the letters 
Exxon, put on a commercial about a researcher of theirs coming up with a 1000 
fold increase in energy density for Lithium Ion Plastic by using thin film 
technology. 

I don't doubt that Exxon either funds research or has bought a battery 
company, after all Shell funds the research into algea oil. I'm just wondering if 
there is any truth to the ad about the new battery technology, or if it 
premature media-fication? Does anyone know?

Mike





**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > More than likely one of their researchers came up w/ a patent they
> > can use to block lithium battery commercialization...big money.....
> > big lawyers...any excuse....
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> On 18 Jun 2008 at 14:10, Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> > Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> > from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > On 18 Jun 2008 at 14:10, Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>The last thing that we need is a repeat of the NiMH patent lockup. 
>Hopefully A123 realizes this, that they've essentially got a huge market 
>opportunity, in part due to NiMH being held off the market, and doesn't 
>squander that opportunity. (This means that yellow flags get raised 
>when reports like the $30m investment from GM into A123 come out, 
....

In the end it may not really matter much. An administration that is
serious about getting 'off of oil' should have the power to tell the
various companies that if you own the patent, you must either use it
or license it for a reasonable amount. That is what the regulations
are in terms of ICE vehicle exhaust emissions reduction - no OEM may
block another from using a technology they developed, but it doesn't
have to be free, either. Why not the same for battery technology?

But my feeling is that things are going to be going sideways pretty
soon. As one of my friends says 'It's one of these days where it sucks
to be a dinosaur'.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Technology is developing to quickly. I like the idea of nanoscale based
solid state energy harvesting and energy storage. 10 years? Battery
chemistry research was so 90's.... 



> Dale Ulan <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > >The last thing that we need is a repeat of the NiMH patent lockup.
> > >Hopefully A123 realizes this, that they've essentially got a huge market
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think it would also mean that lithium would be more energy dense than petroleum products.... although that would be kinda cool.


----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???

> Exxon, put on a commercial about a researcher of theirs coming up
> with a 1000 fold increase in energy density for Lithium Ion Plastic
> by using thin film technology... 

I also doubt the truth of their claim, because it would imply that 
present lithium batteries are only utilizing 1/1000th of the energy 
theoretically available. That's ridiculous; if it were true, lithiums 
would be worse than lead-acids (which use about 1/3rd of their lead to 
store electricity.



_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marty Mercer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???


> Technology is developing to quickly. I like the idea of nanoscale based
> solid state energy harvesting and energy storage. 10 years? Battery
> chemistry research was so 90's.... 
>
>


> Dale Ulan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> >The last thing that we need is a repeat of the NiMH patent lockup.
> >> >Hopefully A123 realizes this, that they've essentially got a huge market
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> >> from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The patents for the chemical comes from research funded by the federal
government.
The federal government retained rights.

Perhaps, with this being an election year, we have a unique opportunity
to prevent a NIMH history repeat.

We should implant the idea in the candidates heads that licensing this
to "any company that will build a plant in the us" would do a few things.
Make it attractive for someone like Panisonic to build a plant.
Employee american workers. which puts money in the economy.
Create a environment of competition, since LiFePo4 research was
funded for the purpose of encouraging growth in battery development by
developing a CHEAPER lithium chemistry. Why did the same government
contradict that with allowing exclusive patents.

This needs to be turned into an issue the candidates can sink their
teeth into.


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.cloudelectric.com/lithium_iron_phosphate?b=1
Cloud Electric (who I have no affiliation with and have never even bought
anything from) is selling Lithium Iron Phosphate packs. They are spendy but
if you guy in bulk and wait the 8 weeks for ocean shipping they get cheaper.
$12,000 will build a 72 volt 100 amp/hr system with fast shipping. Slow
shipping is cheaper.

Note: They call them "Modules" HUMMM I wonder why that is.

They have a 200 amp/hr version too which is a little cheaper per amp hour
actually. If I had the coin I would be on it.

Just posting in case you guys hadn't noticed it yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:16 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???




> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> >> from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

As I have mentioned before, guys, you can buy the same setup from Electric 
Wheels, Inc. in Salem, OR for $7000 - includes charger and the BMS. Same 
specs, 1 year full warranty, 2nd year pro-rated.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Miller" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???


> http://www.cloudelectric.com/lithium_iron_phosphate?b=1
> Cloud Electric (who I have no affiliation with and have never even bought
> anything from) is selling Lithium Iron Phosphate packs. They are spendy 
> but
> if you guy in bulk and wait the 8 weeks for ocean shipping they get 
> cheaper.
> $12,000 will build a 72 volt 100 amp/hr system with fast shipping. Slow
> shipping is cheaper.
>
> Note: They call them "Modules" HUMMM I wonder why that is.
>
> They have a 200 amp/hr version too which is a little cheaper per amp hour
> actually. If I had the coin I would be on it.
>
> Just posting in case you guys hadn't noticed it yet.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:16 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>
>


> > EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >>> Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> >>> from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joe,
You forgot their Web Link for anyone wanting to check them out: http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
Mike


----- Original Message ----
From: joe <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???

As I have mentioned before, guys, you can buy the same setup from Electric 
Wheels, Inc. in Salem, OR for $7000 - includes charger and the BMS. Same 
specs, 1 year full warranty, 2nd year pro-rated.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Miller" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???


> http://www.cloudelectric.com/lithium_iron_phosphate?b=1
> Cloud Electric (who I have no affiliation with and have never even bought
> anything from) is selling Lithium Iron Phosphate packs. They are spendy 
> but
> if you guy in bulk and wait the 8 weeks for ocean shipping they get 
> cheaper.
> $12,000 will build a 72 volt 100 amp/hr system with fast shipping. Slow
> shipping is cheaper.
>
> Note: They call them "Modules" HUMMM I wonder why that is.
>
> They have a 200 amp/hr version too which is a little cheaper per amp hour
> actually. If I had the coin I would be on it.
>
> Just posting in case you guys hadn't noticed it yet.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:16 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>
>


> > EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> >>> Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> >>> from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joe,

I might just be blind, but where are you getting the info about the BMS and 
warranty? I looked at the link below and also 
http://www.ewidistribution.com/batteries.html and can't find and real 
details. Particulary, observing the photo, it doesn't look like individual 
cells have any monitoring or balancing. If they do, this might be a 
reasonable pack for those who want a turn-key solution.

More specs would help: sustained discharge rate, max discharge rate, etc. 
Do you know who's cells they are using?

Peri Hartman


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Johnson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: 18 June, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???


> Joe,
> You forgot their Web Link for anyone wanting to check them out: 
> http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: joe <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:33:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>
> As I have mentioned before, guys, you can buy the same setup from Electric
> Wheels, Inc. in Salem, OR for $7000 - includes charger and the BMS. Same
> specs, 1 year full warranty, 2nd year pro-rated.
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [email protected]
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jeff Miller" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>
>
>> http://www.cloudelectric.com/lithium_iron_phosphate?b=1
>> Cloud Electric (who I have no affiliation with and have never even bought
>> anything from) is selling Lithium Iron Phosphate packs. They are spendy
>> but
>> if you guy in bulk and wait the 8 weeks for ocean shipping they get
>> cheaper.
>> $12,000 will build a 72 volt 100 amp/hr system with fast shipping. Slow
>> shipping is cheaper.
>>
>> Note: They call them "Modules" HUMMM I wonder why that is.
>>
>> They have a 200 amp/hr version too which is a little cheaper per amp hour
>> actually. If I had the coin I would be on it.
>>
>> Just posting in case you guys hadn't noticed it yet.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:16 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>>
>>


> >> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> >> Lee Hart wrote:
> >>>> Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> >>>> from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I talked to the owner, Larry, whom I know from before he started the 
company. He has a maintenance background (millwright), so he does know what 
to look for. And he has also gone to China a couple times, and has a man in 
place there doing his testing for him. Call him and ask about discharge 
rates, etc. I know he did some pretty extensive testing before he took them 
on. And yes, I know whose cells he is using, but I'm sworn to secrecy for 
now (don't know why he insists on secrecy, but he does!).

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???


> Joe,
>
> I might just be blind, but where are you getting the info about the BMS 
> and
> warranty? I looked at the link below and also
> http://www.ewidistribution.com/batteries.html and can't find and real
> details. Particulary, observing the photo, it doesn't look like 
> individual
> cells have any monitoring or balancing. If they do, this might be a
> reasonable pack for those who want a turn-key solution.
>
> More specs would help: sustained discharge rate, max discharge rate, etc.
> Do you know who's cells they are using?
>
> Peri Hartman
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Johnson" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: 18 June, 2008 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>
>
>> Joe,
>> You forgot their Web Link for anyone wanting to check them out:
>> http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: joe <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:33:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>>
>> As I have mentioned before, guys, you can buy the same setup from 
>> Electric
>> Wheels, Inc. in Salem, OR for $7000 - includes charger and the BMS. Same
>> specs, 1 year full warranty, 2nd year pro-rated.
>>
>> Joseph H. Strubhar
>>
>> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>>
>> E-mail: [email protected]
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeff Miller" <[email protected]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>>
>>
>>> http://www.cloudelectric.com/lithium_iron_phosphate?b=1
>>> Cloud Electric (who I have no affiliation with and have never even 
>>> bought
>>> anything from) is selling Lithium Iron Phosphate packs. They are spendy
>>> but
>>> if you guy in bulk and wait the 8 weeks for ocean shipping they get
>>> cheaper.
>>> $12,000 will build a 72 volt 100 amp/hr system with fast shipping. Slow
>>> shipping is cheaper.
>>>
>>> Note: They call them "Modules" HUMMM I wonder why that is.
>>>
>>> They have a 200 amp/hr version too which is a little cheaper per amp 
>>> hour
>>> actually. If I had the coin I would be on it.
>>>
>>> Just posting in case you guys hadn't noticed it yet.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[email protected]]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:16 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???
>>>
>>>


> >>> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> >>> Lee Hart wrote:
> >>>>> Wait until it dawns on Chevron that they can lobby to get lead banned
> >>>>> from all consumer products as a deadly toxin like asbestos or mercury.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Can anyone give an approximation of how this 72V 100AH Lithium pack
would compare to an AGM pack.
Figuring a 156V pack of 70AH AGM's in a 3000# vehicle, and taking it to
50% DOD to ensure a reasonable life.
Looking at range and performance.

Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO 




-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Johnson [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???

Joe,
You forgot their Web Link for anyone wanting to check them out:
http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
Mike


----- Original Message ----
From: joe <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???

As I have mentioned before, guys, you can buy the same setup from
Electric Wheels, Inc. in Salem, OR for $7000 - includes charger and the
BMS. Same specs, 1 year full warranty, 2nd year pro-rated.

Joseph H. Strubhar


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Johnson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:31 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Is Exon's claim true???


> I'm just wondering if there is any truth to the ad about the new battery 
> technology, or if it premature media-fication? Does anyone know?


There is some truth. Thin film technology does offer significant promise, 
and the promise of some of the technologies exceeds the news reports.

Here is the truth though. Right now the experimental and could in theory see 
production within a decade appear to offer 6 to 10 times the energy density 
of current lithium polymer. There is however a great deal of experimentation 
going on in the lattices and matrices for lithium ion containment. These 
range from crystalline structures that may see production within a year that 
don't increase energy density but may make a battery that lasts 1000x longer 
(reasonable expectation of only 5x for the first generation) to a purely 
simulated model based on a double level lattice (technically a matrix but 
this term is more descriptive) of carbon that could very well exceed any 
reasonable estimates with energy densities that could substantially exceed 
that of hydrocarbons.

I believe there are three important measures; cost, size and efficiency.

The double layer lattice of carbon will be maximally small since the entire 
layer will be only 3 atoms (one Li, 2 C) thick, making it possible to fit 
millions of layers in an inch, but the cost right now for a single car 
battery size would be in the billions of dollars. The efficiency though 
would be near 100%.

The possible batteries to be shipped within a couple of years do not offer 
the same size benefit, but the matrix structure is still quite small, 
unfortunately due to the fact that it fits the lithium ion through energy 
state transfer it is slightly less efficient than todays batteries, but it 
does offer slightly higher (5%) energy density, and equivalent cost per 
capacity. The primary benefits are the longer life and cost of production 
(the matrix is becomign cheaper by the day).

So basically, in the next 10 years the energy density should increase at a 
fairly linear pace, unless you can afford to invest billions of dollars in a 
single battery in which case you should be able to get some amazing 
technologies.

In terms of seeing real development in the electric drive space I am 
actually looking forward the to F1 allowance of 60kW of regeneration, this 
should offer very significant gains for all of us within a relatively short 
period of time with notable advances in research of both the generation and 
storage already being made as a result.

As for why Exxon is doing such research: All the major petroleum processors 
are performing research into the next generation energy transport systems, 
in the last year they have seen their profit margin drop 20%* so the writing 
is clearly on the wall for them that they NEED to have something other than 
petroleum. As they are at their heart energy moving and processing companies 
they are researching ways of moving and processing energy.

So a quick answer to the initial question is, umm, maybe.

BTW, Hello, I'm new here, but generally very busy so I can't even keep up 
with the full list traffic.
Joe


* I won't get too far into it, yes I know their total profit is rising, but 
the simple fact is that 2007 they had a 10% profit margin on $2 gas, now 
they have an 8% margin on $4 gas. Even to the point that the gas stations 
are feeling the pinch wih their margins now standing under 1% and many are 
bordering on bankruptcy. If you don't believe me, read their SEC filings 
they are public records and available through many sources. 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)
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==


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Michael Johnson wrote:
> > You forgot their Web Link for anyone wanting to check them out: http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml
> 
> That's a really, *really* bad visual graphic for selling lithium batteries...
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I , laughed the first time thinking they where taking the mickey
out of Sony.

That's a really, *really* bad visual graphic for selling lithium
batteries...
http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/images/batteries/coollogo_com_134691926.gif

Richard

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Is-Exon%27s-claim-true----tp17984044p18106779.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah.. but doesn't it just feel good to laugh ? 

Now.. who's idea was that flaming add anyway ?

Or maybe this wah the whole idea. At least I remember that site now 
EVery time I see flaming batteries.

It did the trick.

-Jukka

Diegoh kirjoitti:
> I , laughed the first time thinking they where taking the mickey
> out of Sony.
> 
> That's a really, *really* bad visual graphic for selling lithium
> batteries...
> http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/images/batteries/coollogo_com_134691926.gif
> 
> Richard
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------

