# [EVDL] Electric Semi Truck



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

It says a variable frequency AC motor coupled to a 5 speed automatic
transmission, and a 336 volt battery pack. Looks like flooded lead acid (it
mentions an automatic battery watering system). 80kW charger!!

Z



> Ryan Stotts <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I wonder what motor/inverter they are using?
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

compared to the specs listed by the smith vehicles that were discussed a fe=
w weeks ago these seem to be poor in range and speed

> =

> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Ryan Stotts <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
> =

> > I wonder what motor/inverter they are using?
> >
> > http://www.balqon.com/
> >


_________________________________________________________________
The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i=92m Talkathon.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

You probably don't want much more than 40mph going around a freight yard
anyway.... How does the cost compare is the question? List on the bigger
one of these was $200k... not that bad for a new semi tractor

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 5:08 PM, robert harder <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >
> > compared to the specs listed by the smith vehicles that were discussed a
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > You probably don't want much more than 40mph going around a freight
> > yard
> > anyway.... How does the cost compare is the question? List on the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The real story is that ports like LA/LongBeach are going to require ZEV 
trucks very soon. They are already installing dock-side power so the 
ships can turn off the big diesels. Second story is usually called 
"environmental justice" i.e. poor folks have to live next to dirty stuff 
like freight yards. There might be some use for these in a few big 
trucking centers to alleviate those political/environmental concerns. I 
wouldn't even be surprised to see LA county require ZEV trucks in 
general eventually.
J

Alternative Energy Guy wrote:
>


> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> >
> >> You probably don't want much more than 40mph going around a freight
> >> yard
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

http://electrorides.com/zerotruck.htm

They are based in Southern Cal. Their model seems to be to address this
issue. I don't know which motors and controllers they use, but Boshart has
done good engineering work in the past and I know who EIG is supplying their
batteries now.



> John Fisher <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > The real story is that ports like LA/LongBeach are going to require ZEV
> > trucks very soon. They are already installing dock-side power so the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I would be very happy if they enacted two laws just to start with.

1) Require the stupid trucks that drive around here with lighted signs
to be zero emissions.
Actually who in their right mind would allow them in the first
place, do you really want people reading ads while they drive?.

2) Plug-ins and EV's only in drive throughs. Or at least set a time
limit and hold the companies responsible. What a joke, how can they
claim to be a green city with prgrams to help reduce emmisions and build
drive-through after drive-through

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >It says a variable frequency AC motor coupled to a 5 speed automatic
> >transmission, and a 336 volt battery pack. Looks like flooded lead acid (it
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >You probably don't want much more than 40mph going around a freight yard
> >anyway.... How does the cost compare is the question? List on the bigger
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:56:47 -0600, Alternative Energy Guy


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> >I find some of this information fishy.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> John Fisher <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >The real story is that ports like LA/LongBeach are going to require ZEV
> >trucks very soon. They are already installing dock-side power so the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >I would be very happy if they enacted two laws just to start with.
> <first example of mental midgetry snipped>
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Folks, before you send a message to the list in this thread and a couple 
other current ones, I would like to direct your attention to two important 
guiding principles behind the EVDL. I stole them from Fidonet.

1. Thou shalt not be too annoying.

2. Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.

Think about it.

Thanks,

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > For those not familiar with trucking, why anti-idling laws matter. Federal
> > rules require that a driver stop for a sleep break after 11 hours of driving
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:06:41 +0100, "Evan Tuer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:13 AM, Neon John <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> For those not familiar with trucking, why anti-idling laws matter. Federal
>> rules require that a driver stop for a sleep break after 11 hours of driving
>> or 14 hours of on-duty time. No slack - whenever and wherever the clock runs
>> out, that's where the driver has to stop. A normal semi has no other source
>> of AC than the main engine. Therefore the truck idles while the driver sleeps.
>> Clue: There ain't a driver alive who is willing to try to sleep in a closed-up
>> truck cab in 90 deg heat.
>
>A shame they didn't simply put 240V outlets in all the truck rest
>places, so you could plug it in...

120 volts would have been fine. A 7.5 to 10kbtu AC would keep a sleeper
comfortable.

So-called "shore power" is part of the dirty politics involved in the matter.
Much lobbying for anti-idling laws is coming from a Knoxville, TN-based
company called Idle-Aire. Just by happenstance, they happen to make systems
that are installed in truck stops to supply HVAC, TV and internet connections
to parked truck - at a very high price, something like $2.50 an hour if
you're not a corporate customer. The next time you stop at a major name brand
"travel center" (Petro, Flying J, Loves, TA, etc), notice the gantry-like
structures in the truck parking area sporting the large yellow and black flex
hoses. Those are Idle-Aire setups.

Many truck stops used to offer 120 volt convenience outlets in the parking
areas gratis. That all went away when Idle-Aire came on the scene.

My company wouldn't pop for the subscription so I was out of luck. There are
many more problems than what Idle-Aire could solve even if it were to be
affordable. There are nowhere nearly enough places for truckers to park to
sleep, particularly after the government's last change in hours of service
rules. That's why you see trucks parked in rest areas, on the shoulders of
exit and entrance ramps, in vacant store parking lots and whatnot.

Many times I'd waste the last 30-45 minutes of my drive time jumping off and
back on exits looking for some place, any place to stop. I've found myself
parked in some, shall we say, interesting places when the sun came up.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Risk: $20 hooker, year old condom.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Thu, 2008-06-19 at 10:06 +0100, Evan Tuer wrote:
> A shame they didn't simply put 240V outlets in all the truck rest
> places, so you could plug it in...

I agree ! Idling with a fuel consumption of 1 gallon per hour is still
$4-5 per hour. An 8 hour sleep costs $40 in fuel alone. Surely they
could provide a plug in for a fraction of that cost.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow, very interesting side effect on the anti-idle, but of course it
leads to the matra of not enforcing what people can't do without first
providing an alternative.

So first we need to hybridize this setup.
A battery pack capable of running the lights, A/C, microwave for 10
hours, How many batteries would that be?

Well you got by on 1kw for 10 hours, or 10kwh but I suspect that is a
1kwh 'peak' unit and you didn't operate at full all the time.
At such low usage rate, maybe even a row of golfcart batteries behind
the cab would do the trick, surely an extra 500 lbs won't be noticeable.


It charges while you drive. With the size alternators, they put in
those, maybe rig the charger to the brake light.
With a 120VAC alternator already there, charging becomes simplified.
(Hey new market for Manzinita Micro)

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
>


> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> >I would be very happy if they enacted two laws just to start with.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

actually there is quite a large program to install AC and/or 120V at truck stops. Diesel savings as well as air
pollution reduction make it a no-brainer.

You'll notice I mentioned a similar program dockside for ships in my previous post.

The scale of LA/Long Beach measured in containers is quite a bit bigger than any other US port, so the sheer number of
trucks is higher too. Plus its the heart of AQMD territory. Theres been talk of limiting daytime runs to alleviate traffic.

Alternative Energy Guy wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-06-19 at 10:06 +0100, Evan Tuer wrote:
>> A shame they didn't simply put 240V outlets in all the truck rest
>> places, so you could plug it in...
> 
> I agree ! Idling with a fuel consumption of 1 gallon per hour is still
> $4-5 per hour. An 8 hour sleep costs $40 in fuel alone. Surely they
> could provide a plug in for a fraction of that cost.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >Wow, very interesting side effect on the anti-idle, but of course it
> >leads to the matra of not enforcing what people can't do without first
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John wrote:
> > Upon return, he cranks the engine to start getting rid of the heat
> > soak while
> > he does his seat belt, puts his change in his pocket, arranges the
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John wrote:
> > The thing is a monster. I'd
> > hate to think what the impact on mileage would be.
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:34:20 -0600, Alternative Energy Guy


> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >You are confusing two things here, catalytic converter operation and
> >closed loop A/F sensing.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:24:11 -0600, Alternative Energy Guy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>


> Neon John wrote:
> >> The thing is a monster. I'd
> >> hate to think what the impact on mileage would be.
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John wrote:
> > >Anyway... an average truck needs ~200 HP going down the road.
> > 6HP/200HP
> > >= ~3% more power from the engine. I doubt that you would notice it.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)
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----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry, but I'm failing to see how Semi-truck fuel consumption or idle engine
emission is related to home conversions?

-Jon Glauser
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com
http://www.evalbum.com/555
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Huh? This must be that new fangled new math stuff (again)

6.5 gph means 6.5 gallons per hour How/why do you get 10gph from that?
However 10 mpg might work out there ;-]

6.5 x 7 = 45.5 lbs of diesel per hour. 

45.5/.35 = 130 hp

BFSC on a modern 4 stroke diesel is .25-.35 so you could see as much as 227
hp
on the same fuel. 

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Alternative Energy Guy
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 7:36 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Semi Truck



> Neon John wrote:
> > >Anyway... an average truck needs ~200 HP going down the road.
> > 6HP/200HP
> > >= ~3% more power from the engine. I doubt that you would notice it.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave King wrote:
> > Huh? This must be that new fangled new math stuff (again)
> >
> > 6.5 gph means 6.5 gallons per hour How/why do you get 10gph from that?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jon Glauser wrote:
> > Sorry, but I'm failing to see how Semi-truck fuel consumption or idle engine
> > emission is related to home conversions?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

This thread is no longer even remotely about EVs. Take it to private email, 
please.

Thanks,

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Huh? This must be that new fangled new math stuff (again)
>
> 6.5 gph means 6.5 gallons per hour How/why do you get 10gph from that?

It's definitely some kind of mangled math.

Last time I checked 6.5 MPG != 6.5 gph


> However 10 mpg might work out there ;-]
>
> 6.5 x 7 = 45.5 lbs of diesel per hour.
>
> 45.5/.35 = 130 hp
>
> BFSC on a modern 4 stroke diesel is .25-.35 so you could see as much as
> 227
> hp
> on the same fuel.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Alternative Energy Guy
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 7:36 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Semi Truck
>
>


> Neon John wrote:
> >> >Anyway... an average truck needs ~200 HP going down the road.
> >> 6HP/200HP
> >> >= ~3% more power from the engine. I doubt that you would notice it.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>Modern gasoline engines run pretty clean. Idling diesel engines are
>another story altogether. 

A modern idling diesel engine actually is pretty good. When running
high pressure injection you can break up those fuel particles and
get idle PM's very low. CO is almost non-existant, even without
a catalyst. NOx emissions are pretty low at idle, and if you turn
on EGR at idle, you can get those very low. At these conditions,
the engine-out emissions even without a catalyst is quite low.
The issue I have with diesel emissions are the PM 'puffs' when
they over-fuel the engine slightly on take-off. There is not excuse
for that - on a modern engine it is trivial to eliminate that.
European diesels don't do that.

On the other hand, a modern gasoline engine requires a catalyst.
Without one, the emissions numbers are so high that it'll make your
head spin. It is common for gasoline pre-catalyst emissions to be
8000ppm CO, 1500ppm NOx. Post-catalyst? 50ppm CO, 20ppm NOx. Before
the catalyst is warm, emissions kinda suck.

I make a living at designing natural gas engine control systems,
probably spent hundreds, if not a thousand hours in front of a
dyno and emissions analyzers. Diesel emissions at idle on a modern,
high-pressure common-rail engine are really not all that bad.

Certainly not nearly as bad as the old Screamin' Jimmy or maybe an
old worn-out EMD locomotive, or worse yet, a Mercedes OM352 'Old
Smoker'. Now those guys smoke when they're cold.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:35:38 -0600, "Jon Glauser" <[email protected]>


> wrote:
> 
> >Sorry, but I'm failing to see how Semi-truck fuel consumption or idle engine
> >emission is related to home conversions?
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Neon John wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:35:38 -0600, "Jon Glauser" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The EVDL is for discussion of EVs. As long as your subject relates to EVs, 
you're mostly OK, but see the guidelines here :

http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv

I will tell you this. The EVDL is not for the discussion of ICEVs including 
their fuel efficiency (except as it directly applies EVs), OTR trucks, truck 
stop facilities, or ICE "yard dogs." For that matter, it's not for 
discussion of politics or your personal views on social policy unrelated to 
EVs. It doesn't matter one whit how interesting YOU personally find these 
issues. There are other places for discussing these topics. Don't bring 
them here. 

Living in any society requires that one adhere to certain constraints. Only 
very young infants and wild animals are expected to act without restraint. 
There really are not a lot of constraints on EVDL members, but staying on 
topic is one.

And you know, we're actually pretty flexible on that. We don't make a fuss 
about minor and brief off-topic excursions, as long as the subject is at 
least distantly related to EVs >and< is flagged OT in the subject line. 
When the thread becomes long and / or discussion lively (take that in 
whatever way you wish ;-), then other on-topic discussions may be inhibited. 
That's when I'll ask you to take the discussion to private email. Please 
do so. 

Note that I've already asked that this thread be taken offlist.

Now, about filters. 

I agree, it's a good idea to learn to use your email filters. Every list 
has people you won't want to deal with. (Maybe that's me.) However, nobody 
has any business asking or requiring other list members to filter out his 
off-topic noise just so he can post whatever he pleases -- particularly when 
he or she becomes obstreperous. That's just plain antisocial behaviour.

Fortunately, the list software provides a means to deal with these problems. 
People who can't or won't stay on topic and / or refuse to comply with 
requests to take a topic to private email may be removed from the list or 
moderated.

Now, let's get back to discussing EVs, please.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------

