# Citroën Visa conversion



## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi folks,

I would like to introduce myself and my project to the people on this fantastic forum. Converting a car to electric will be quite a challenge for me. I do have some experience working on cars, but I'm not a trained mechanic or engineer. I do have a cutting disk, welder, donor car, and a lot of enthusiasm for a EV conversion, though  

My goal for this conversion is being able to reach highway speeds (i.e, 100 km/h / 62 mph, this would take the original gas engine 5500-6000 RPM), get a range of 40-50 miles, and keeping the clutch and stock gearbox. I would prefer AC drive with regenerative braking. I am considering a 96v Lithium pack. 

As a donor vehicle I wanted something cheap but decent, light weight, and easy to work on. I ended up with a 1987 Citroën Visa. An oldtimer (25 years+) was desired to get in on the road legally here in Belgium (it needs an MOT once with gas-engine, and then never again).

The car cost me 350 euro (500$), and has done 107000km/ 66.5k m. It has the same engine as a Citroën 2cv (652cc, 35 HP), a 4-speed manual gearbox, curb weight is 755kg (1664 lbs), max gross weight is 1090 kg (2400lbs). It has no power steering, power brakes, AC, etc., which should simplify the conversion.




























After reading a lot about EV conversions, and EV owners' experiences, I have decided not to go with lead-acid. But, LiFePo4 cells are expensive (much like lead-acid on the long run). After countless hours of searching for somewhat affordable prices, I stumbled upon the Chevy Volt pack-thread on this forum. So I went for what I love most; recycling stuff from scrapyards. After some expensive-ish offers, I came across a battery pack that had 35000km (22k miles) on it for 1250 euro (1700$).











I cautiously disassembled it into 7 pcs. of 48v (2Kw) and 2 pcs. of 24v (1Kw), and made 4 pcs. of 96v (180Ah) out of them. 










I figured that should give me some decent range on a budget (I hope I am right). The two contactors in the pack came as a nice present. 

So, I have committed myself to an EV conversion, but I am left with some difficult decisions to make, and especially about the type of motor+ controller and a suitable charger. It would be very nice of some of the more experienced members of this forum could give some some thoughts about these upcoming choices.

I prefer an AC motor+controller for the extra braking power (and the joy of loading the pack while coasting). 

The AC-35 comes to mind, but with controller it comes at 3500$ + shipping (350$?). And I wonder, will it be powerful enough? And if it will...

I am also considering the AC-31/AC-45 motor that is offered on some forums and on ebay. I know lots has been written about it, but nonetheless (if powerful enough) it could make a great little motor I hope.

As a third option, which has produced a lot of grinding noises from my (little) brain, a local add showed up, offering, as far as I can tell, a used forklift motor, with adapter to suit my gearbox, and two surplus gearboxes on top for 630 euro (850$)? 
Here, the rated RPM would be 3100-3500 at 84v. I think this suggests I should go higher voltage, which means reconfiguring my volt pack, loosing some capacity, as there will be left-over modules. 
Also, no regen braking. 
Also, wearing brushes.
Also, clutchless coupling?




























Here I will be ending this post for now. I really can't decide, and I hope that the experience on the forum might help me to sort things out.
What motor would you go with?
Would you go with 96v?
Are there any obvious mistakes I am making here?

Thank you for reading


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Nice Project.
The DC motor must be tempting as it has an adapter plate and is cheap.
You should only do the DC motor if you budget is very restricted and you can save up and build an AC35 or 45 motor in the back ground and convert to AC/regen later while driving around on the DC.
In any case keep the clutch and don't worry about any particular motor not being powerful enough as the gearbox will allow you to use a small motor. That gearbox doesn't look to strong anyway so even an AC35 will do. Carefull with Sevcons as they have very expensive config screens.
You did well on the Volt pack but you wont need the water cooling plumbing and spacer plates. See if you can extract the cells and make a lighter smaller box to save weight.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Interesting car you've got there, nice and light weight, should make a good EV.

You'll get a lot of feedback on the AC vs DC thing! 

Personally I have to disagree with Rippertons negative comments regarding DC motors, they still represent excellent value in the power you get for your money. You can't have regen with DC, but unless you live in a very hilly area, regen is very overrated. A few years ago on EVTV, Jack tested an AC system with regen vs no regen over several extended runs and found absolutely no benefit to it, in fact I think his range was slightly reduced with it cranked up! This was before he started flogging AC systems though... 

If you do go DC, 120v to 144v would be better with your motor advanced 10 degrees or so. The motor shown may be a little small, I see it only weighs 48Kg, what's the diameter?

Whichever route you decide, I'll look forward to following your build


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks a lot for the input. I appreciate it a lot.
It's nice to hear that the AC-35 would be suitable. I'll consider that as a viable option.
The cheaper DC alternative is certainly tempting. 
But it is not really what I want to achieve on the long run I guess. Expense-wise, it would be an option to do the conversion with the cheaper second-hand motor/adapter. If this runs fine, I can upgrade. BUT, buying a 'testing only' DC controller might be a waste of money maybe...

My expense situation is to keep it as cheapish as possible, but since I got some good batteries cheap, there is some money left to spend on a more durable motor/controller combination. hard to decide...


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## Hollie Maea (Dec 9, 2009)

I never cease to be amused by the old Citroen steering wheel.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

favguy said:


> The motor shown may be a little small, I see it only weighs 48Kg, what's the diameter?


To be honest, I don't know. I haven't bought it (yet). It's only an hour drive to get it, so it is tempting. I can only guess from the pictures (knowing the size of the clutch) the diameter is about 8''. I do fear it wouldn't meet my end goal though.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

@Hollie Maea

I've got a spare steering wheel if you like


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

EVisa,

You mentioned this:
"An oldtimer (25 years+) was desired to get in on the road legally here in Belgium (it needs an MOT once with gas-engine, and then never again)."

I don't know the law in Belgium, but I can imagine it will be the same in most of the EU. Once you do this modification on an oldtimer, it's no longer an oldtimer (you will loose the status) and therefore it needs to be properly registered as a modification. I recommend you to check the regulations to be safe. Otherwise you might be in big trouble when accident happens.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

eldis said:


> EVisa,
> 
> You mentioned this:
> "An oldtimer (25 years+) was desired to get in on the road legally here in Belgium (it needs an MOT once with gas-engine, and then never again)."
> ...


I'm pretty sure it will still be an oldtimer. But you are correct that I should inform myself a bit better just to be absolutely sure. 

I guess the issue is, can you swap engines on an oldtimer without renewing the MOT (required technical check-up), and especially if the new motor would turn-out to be more powerful than the stock engine. 

I'll go after it!


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

just want to say
my car has almost the same weight and original engine specs and i have a 6.7inch motor

i think u would be perfectly fine with that motor

with standard gearbox ur top speed is gonna be about 80kph with 96v though in a dc setup


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

First of all, many thanks to everyone for the advice on my project so far. It has been a little quiet from my end for some time, but now it is time for a next step. 

My Chevy Volt pack has been sitting here now for a while, and I’m looking for a charger to top it up. My pack is configured as 4x 96v. That is, 4 packs of 24s3p in parallel. 

I am assuming my pack totals 180 Ah (12x15Ah), and minimum voltage per cell is 3V, maximum voltage per cell is 4.2V. So I guess I need a charger that give a 100V output. I came across the following 500$ charger. 
http://www.batteryspace.com/Smart-C...t-off-for-72V-84V-SLA-70.3V-92.5V-Li-Ion.aspx 
At 16A, it should charge my pack in 16.8 hours. (1.5x 180Ah)/ 16A.

To me as a novice this charger appears to meet my needs just fine at a reasonable price. Is there something obvious I am overlooking here? Or any other suggestions for a nice and affordable charger?


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Evisa,

I too like your crazy, cool steering wheel! 

Now let me save you some grief, do not buy that charger! 

Firstly, despite what is says at the top of that website, it is not made in USA at all, it's Chinese, not that it matters, but it can be had for $320 here: 

http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=11 

Also, the import tax will be the same for you in Belgium weather you import from US or China.

But... much more importantly, you don't want it anywhere near your nice lithium battery!!! 

I researched this type of charger a lot when looking for one for my car, I don't think it's power factor corrected to start with (which makes me dubious of the CE listed claim!) so isn't allowed to be used on a European electricity grid. They're also under engineered and don't have adequate vibration or waterproofing for in car use. Just look at the two fans blowing air (and dust!) through the open, ended case! 

The guys over on endless sphere have a thread on them, they are OK for charging bikes off board but still fail often!

I'd recommend the TCCH charger. Lots of people on here have used them, (including myself!). They've proved to be a good quality, value for money charger. I bought mine here for only $540, you can buy them elsewhere for more if you like!  

http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=23

Keep up the good work


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks Favguy,

That is some useful info . I knew I'd better ask the pro's before purchasing. Keeps my EV-budget alive 

However, the chargers you refer to use a fixed charging voltage. I believe my 96V volt pack will operate between 72V (completely empty) and 100.8V (completely charged). Thus, the battery pack's requirements are not consistent with the fixed charging voltages of typical chargers. This is something I keep bumping in to. And that's why I appreciated the variable output voltage of the charger I mentioned. 


I guess I need a 100.8V charger to fully load the cells to 4.2V. A 72V (96V output) charger may do, but would load the cells only up to 4V, which means losing range (safe against overcharging though). A 88.8V (100.8V output) charger seems perfect, but they are pretty rare.

Though choice...


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Evisa,

You misunderstand what is available with the TCCH chargers. The linked page shows an example list of voltages, but they can be ordered with any termination voltage you want, and you can specify up to 10 charge curves with them, giving you a range of end voltages .

On your battery, I'd probably terminate at 4.15v per cell for safety, in any case there will be very little extra Ah's to be gained above this.

Regards,

Paul


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I am very happy to have misunderstood that . This means I am no longer worrying about finding a suitable charger for my Volt pack. Your comment made me a very happy man.

Just have to decide on ordering either the 2500W or 3000W version.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I've emailed them asking for the specifics they'd need from my end to set up a 3000W charger to meet the needs of my volt/ampera battery pack.

Thank you so much.

In the mean time, I'm off cleaning up my garage to make some space....


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

So, my garage got cleaned up, and the Elcon 3kW has been ordered. 

So I decided to start working on the rear battery box that should accommodate two of my four 96V Volt packs. 

First got rid of the fuel tank and rear part of the exhaust. It’s a nice feeling knowing I won’t need them anymore 









I decided to use the base of the original Volt pack to bolt the battery packs on to. This should hold them in place securely. I got rid of some of the edges to save space.









I used some pretty heavy iron L-shaped bars, and started to construct the bottom of the rear box.









This is what it looks like when things started to take shape. Pretty heavy unfortunately, but at least it should be strong…









I used filler to make the battery box waterproof,









After priming and painting, almost done riveting the sides. 


















I still have to drill the holes for the cables, and make a strong but not too heavy lid. . 
Also I have to decide whether to keep the liquid cooling or not. 


.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello EVisa 
May I ask where you bought your battery pack from please and how you found places selling them. I am struggling in the UK. Thanks


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

First, words of encouragement- you have done the hardest part already, securing a battery for a good price. My own cost me over 4 times as much for not very much more capacity- you are very lucky!

So I encourage you to spend a little of that savings on an AC system. Buy from HPEVS- be careful with e-bay as there are plenty of warnings here of people who were sold bad stuff. Keep the gearbox and clutch. You will have perhaps a less dramatic acceleration machine when you are done, but also less maintenance and hopefully a longer lasting solution, efficient and with the small but real benefit of regenerative braking- reducing wear and tear on your brakes as well as increasing range a bit.

A 3000w charger will charge your pack very quickly. You could have made do with less as your pack is only about 16.5 kWh in real capacity, but more is definitely ok.

Don't know if you need heating or cooling for you pack and climate, but if winter driving is in your plans then heating and insulation and hence also cooling will be required. 

Looking great so far- fortunately you are starting with a car in better condition than mine, which would be hard to avoid in my case because mine was so terribly rusty. I am still doing body filler and sanding and cursing my fate...


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

tylerwatts said:


> Hello EVisa
> May I ask where you bought your battery pack from please and how you found places selling them. I am struggling in the UK. Thanks


Dear Tylerwatts,

I came across my pack by looking online for scrapyards, and by calling random scrapyards. Here, they have sites where you post the part you are looking for. These sites will forward your request to dozens of scrapyards. 

Two offers came in. One for 3000 euro. I looked up the scrapyard, and found a picture from the donor car. It had been in a fire. The right-rear tyre had even melted, so it would have been a gamble not worth taking. 

Another offer came in at 1500 euro. I called them, but when asking for details about the car, they would call me back, which they didn't. 

I came across this very pack by googling random scapyards, and one of them just happened to have a very documented site (with pictures), and had an Ampera/Volt pack. I mailed them for a price, they replied 1250, I said, I'll snap that one, I'll pick it up tomorrow morning. A six hour drive later it was sitting in my garage 

Keep looking, call them, don't bother to ask them. For me, they all answered me very politely, even when they didn't have any in stock.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Moltenmetal said:


> First, words of encouragement- you have done the hardest part already, securing a battery for a good price. My own cost me over 4 tomes as much for not very much more capacity- you are very lucky!
> 
> So I encourage you to spend a little of that savings on an AC system. Buy from HPEVS- be careful with e-bay as there are plenty of warnings here of people who were sold bad stuff. Keep the gearbox and clutch. You will have perhaps a less dramatic acceleration machine when you are done, but also less maintenance and hopefully a longer lasting solution, efficient and with the small but real benefit of regenerative braking- reducing wear and tear on your brakes as well as increasing range a bit.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thumbs up on my battery pack. I'm really happy with it indeed. I have decided on an AC system. The DC motor + adaptor I've shown earlier in my build thread surely were tempting (pricewise), but just wouldn't be up to the job. Also I really wanted to have regenerative braking. So I can't agree more. Nice  

I will keep gearbox and clutch, despite advices otherwise. I do hope the motor will fit, because the gearbox is oriented towards the front (not lateral), and it might be getting close to the front bumper. Your warning might be overdue, I've read all I could find on the topic, and yet hope not to be disappointed. 

Concerning rust, I've digged deep, and found some more of it than I'd hoped for. It usually hides in small corners. I've spend the last two days on it . I'll give an update soon. The 'after' pictures look better than the 'before's'.

Yeah, it was a hard choice between an 2.5 or 3 kW charger. In the end I decided I wanted an efficient EV, convenient in daily use. I found it a hard decision, but hey, It was frustrating once (it was the more expensive of the two), but will be a pleasure later on. Cant wait for it to be delivered.

Cooling/heating the battery pack would be more of a precautious measure, rather than an effort to extend range in winter. Adding cooling/heating to the pack would complicate things, but would be worth it should not having it compromise battery life. 

I'll update soon about my rust investigation.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank you EVisa. I will continue to persevere.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm still working on some small spots of rust. It's nothing serious, these things just take a lot of time (unless you want to do it over in two years time).
In the mean time I've been doing some christmas shopping. Latest on my list is a dc-dc converter.

Has anyone got experience with a Samlex dc-dc converter? I found this one:
http://www.chargingchargers.com/converters/idc-200d-12.html










In my car, I'm planning to change all bulbs for LED's, and I'm not running any power steering, AC, or vacuum pumps.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I ordered these to cool motor and controller.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Hi Evisa,

I'm not sure the DC/DC shown will be up to the job, 200 watts is a very low power level and 12.5v output isn't really high enough. Your lights will be dim, wipers will run really slowly, etc.

Also, if you are going to use a back up 12v battery, (and I'd recommend you do, it stops the DC/DC getting stressed by sudden loads such as the brake pump kicking in with your lights and wipers on and so on), it simply won't charge it at all. You really need at least 13.8v, but personally I'd go with 14.4v if possible & 400 watts minimum output. After all, when your car was an ICE, with the engine running the alternator would be putting out 14.4v or so.

Have a look at this for a suitable, low cost DC/DC:

http://www.chennic.com/show-products.asp?id=33&JCDI41

If I recall correctly, they were around $150, but that might be a little out of date by now...

Personally I'd go with 14.4v output though if you can. My own solution using the excellent Vicor bricks that can be had on ebay from time to time at a good discount is here, post #104 onwards:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/my-project-favelec-58958p11.html

I've just noticed you say you won't have any vacuum pumps running, so how will you power the brakes?

Are you still going to go with AC? If so, how do you intend to use the blower to cool the motor??


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thank you for the advice.
I'll look into a more powerful DC-DC converter. I'm a bit hesitant to build one myself.
I won't have any vacuum pump running, since my donor car doesn't have power brakes  
I'm still going for an AC motor with regenerative braking. I would use the blower to cool the controller's heatsink (once it gets to a certain temperature, not continuously), and was considering cooling the motor as well, by blowing filtered air through the vents.


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

I didn't realise the visa had no servo on the brakes, one less thing to worry about then


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

My Curtis 1238 is mounted to a 1/4" thick aluminum plate and has the stock heatsink mounted underneath it- heatsink down is not ideal for heat dissipation. I added a $10 12V muffin fan to the underside of the heatsink which I run constantly when the keyswitch is engaged. We'll see how it does at steady highway speeds in the spring, but on peak duties of hard acceleration (up to 500 A) followed by hard regen braking, the controller temperature barely rises above ambient. Do a good job with the heat sink and heat transfer grease and you won't need a blower.


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## Yabert (Feb 7, 2010)

EVisa said:


> I'll look into a more powerful DC-DC converter.


With my Smart, (no power steering, no brake booster) my 300w DC-DC (65$) is powerful enough for 99% of time. For the other 1%, I needed to install a 12v battery back-up to help at overload. My voltage is adjust to 13,5v with great results.

So, in your case a 88$ Meanwell SD-350 should work well. If no, there is also the 500w unit at around 130$.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I’ve ordered a 350W DC-DC converter. It is the Mean Well SD-350D-12 (92 euro shipping included). It is incredible how many choices there are, and how long it takes a newbie like me to consider all these options. Then by simply posting the dilemma in my build thread the suitable converters pop-up at very affordable prices. 









My Elcon 3kW charger will arrive tomorrow. Some other parts are on their way too. I just can’t wait for them to arrive. 


I mounted the rear battery box and fitted two of my 96v Chevy Volt packs. They are already connected in parallel, using 50mm2 (1/0) wire. I am using a hydraulic crimping tool to ensure tight fittings.









I fitted a 400A fuse on the positive side of the pack (I was amazed by the sheer size of those things). The cables will exit the box underneath the car (not in the cabin), through waterproof cable glands. The threads on the cable glands were too short to route them through the 8mm plywood, so I had to make a hole that was covered up which some aluminum sheet.










Did some carpeting, and the rear battery box was ready (except for the lid that still needs some finishing).










So far, I have been working very patiently on the rear of the car. But things have changed…


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Moltenmetal said:


> My Curtis 1238 is mounted to a 1/4" thick aluminum plate and has the stock heatsink mounted underneath it- heatsink down is not ideal for heat dissipation. I added a $10 12V muffin fan to the underside of the heatsink which I run constantly when the keyswitch is engaged. We'll see how it does at steady highway speeds in the spring, but on peak duties of hard acceleration (up to 500 A) followed by hard regen braking, the controller temperature barely rises above ambient. Do a good job with the heat sink and heat transfer grease and you won't need a blower.


That is reassuring to hear. The blower surely won't be my priority (first priority is to get the car running reliably and safe). I ordered some heat conducting paste, but still have to get a heatsink for the controller (Curtis 1238).


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Moltenmetal said:


> My Curtis 1238 is mounted to a 1/4" thick aluminum plate and has the stock heatsink mounted underneath it- heatsink down is not ideal for heat dissipation. I added a $10 12V muffin fan to the underside of the heatsink which I run constantly when the keyswitch is engaged. We'll see how it does at steady highway speeds in the spring, but on peak duties of hard acceleration (up to 500 A) followed by hard regen braking, the controller temperature barely rises above ambient. Do a good job with the heat sink and heat transfer grease and you won't need a blower.


I also have 2 48V Fans connected in series to a 98V pack, which come on when the Ign is ON.
1 fans blows air to controller and the other one blows to the AC-35.
My AC-35 

used to run up tp 145 deg C, now stays under 130
At traffic lights, temp used to raise up, with fan, temp continues to fall


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

67BGTEV said:


> My AC-35
> 
> used to run up to 145 deg C, now stays under 130


I haven't driven a DIY EV yet, but those temperatures seem excessive. Do you mean 145 deg F?


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

My 3kW charger and DC-DC converter have arrived . Estimated delivery for my motor, controller and pot boxes is on Monday (in two days time). 



With the ICE removed I started cleaning the engine bay a little bit while waiting. This made me start thinking about how to position all the components. And one thing is for sure… It will be (very) tight fit. The positioning of the gearbox takes away a lot of space. 











It looks like I have to split up at least one 96V Volt module into two 48V modules. And even then there isn’t much space left between the battery packs and the bonnet and gearbox, respectively. I made up some cardboard boxes to get a rough idea of the size of the battery packs.











I still have to squeeze in a motor, controller, DC-DC controller, EV-display sensor, contactor, various relays, an arduino, and preferably the charger (and ouch I ordered a large charger…). 

Oops…


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## favguy (May 2, 2008)

Wow, your gearbox really is set forward a lot, the original engine must have been really compact!

Keep up the good work


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Yep, it is just an air cooled 652cc... It doesn't weigh much either...

The actual space available only became obvious when removing the ICE. Before that, it was basically just guessing. On top of that, my Volt pack is great, but it is less modular than individual cells...


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Would it help in positioning components if you had motor and transmission in transverse orientation? There were Visas and C15 vans with Diesel engine and 5 speed in this configuration so it would be quite easy swap...
I did the same in Cinquecento; donor car had longitudal 4 speed and 2 cyl. 704 ccm engine so less than 30 cm from bellhousing to front bumper. For less than 100€ in parts I switched to Sporting 5sp and now use motor similar in dimensions to Warp 9 or AC50.


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

EVisa said:


> I haven't driven a DIY EV yet, but those temperatures seem excessive. Do you mean 145 deg F?


No, i meant C. Max temperature for a HPEVS motor is 160C.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

@ z_power
This would indeed be an option. I hope it won't be necessary. I've already considered this. Would give some longer gear ratios as well. 

Question remains whether that would save much space. Well, it looks like I'll be measuring some more, and consulting Google images to find out, before starting to weld the front battery boxes. Thanks for your reply.

@67BGTEV
Wow, I didn't expect that they run so hot.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

EVisa said:


> [email protected]
> Wow, I didn't expect that they run so hot.


I've never seen my AC50 over 66 C in 5 years, including operation in ambient up to 100 F, and climbing 4500 ft elevation gain at about 45 mph in average of about 80 F ambient. That is with the front bumper closed off and a partial belly pan under the front of the car. My car (www.evalbum.com/3060) is light, but so is yours.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Those are indeed more like the temperatures I would expect. But again, my EV isn't finished yet, so my experience = 0.

@67BGTEV: How do you measure your temperatures?


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Tom, Interesting and good to know you have done 5 years trouble free ride. I checked with HPEVS, and they said it is fine. Others here confirmed that temp can go high. 
Controller temp stays around 50C with fan. 
You have a nice conversion. I'll consider battery heaters as well.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm looking out of the window, waiting like a little kid for Christmas...


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

EVisa said:


> Those are indeed more like the temperatures I would expect. But again, my EV isn't finished yet, so my experience = 0.
> 
> @67BGTEV: How do you measure your temperatures?


At this time, I'm using Curtis Spyglass to see the temperature.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Big day


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Looks good. What kind of wiring is close to drive shat? 
Is one accelerator peddle and the other a brake peddle?


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello EVisa. What drive system have you shown us please? Is that a Curtis controller? 
Thanks


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

The wiring connects to the Curtis 1238-6501 controller, and what you see correctly as one accelerator and one braking pedal. 

I'm not sure yet of my final configuration, but I would want to connect the stock throttle pedal to the pedal you see by a cable. For the regen braking pedal, I want to install a forth pedal, like you have in cars that have a 'footbrake' rather than a handbrake.

@ tylerwatts. This is the same motor that 67BGTEV has. It is unpopular on the forum, but I hope it will manage for my light weight Citroën.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

It has been a while since I posted an update on my EV project. As happens more often after a few weeks into an EV project, people need to catch up with work, need to spend time on some rust repairs, wait for machine shops, and spend time on their non-electric cars since they tend to break down at the worst possible times... So, the same happened to me. Luckily the rust repairs were relatively minor  

Later today I can finally pick up my coupler from the machine shop... Next up will be the adapter plate.

Over the last month, I started work on one of the front battery boxes.





















Cleaned up the front wings





























Closed off some unused venting holes





















And finished some other small rust repairs like this one


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Those battery boxes for Volt pack is exactly what I'm trying to do right now  Thanks for the inspiration!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

eldis said:


> Those battery boxes for Volt pack is exactly what I'm trying to do right now  Thanks for the inspiration!


Haha, that's funny. Knowing that there is someone out there, doing exactly the same thing. I'll post you some more detailed pictures tonight. 

I guess the disadvantage of the way I did it is that the boxes are a bit heavy, but at least they should be strong. I chop of parts of the original base of the Volt pack to mount the battery securely. Even the GM-screws are re-used .


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

EVisa said:


> Haha, that's funny. Knowing that there is someone out there, doing exactly the same thing. I'll post you some more detailed pictures tonight.
> 
> I guess the disadvantage of the way I did it is that the boxes are a bit heavy, but at least they should be strong. I chop of parts of the original base of the Volt pack to mount the battery securely. Even the GM-screws are re-used .


I was just thinking the same thing.. 
Anyway, here is a quick sketch of the rear box I'm considering to make (the largest battery segment, goes between suspension supports into a rectangular hole in the trunk). The sheet metal would be just thin, but as long as the battery (acting as structure as well as splash protection).
This would reuse the original black bottom as well (just cut into size of the segment). Idea was to use this bottom plate (reinforced with some L profiles) for front battery packs as well, but maybe I'll take your approach there.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

We're watching with interest- keep the updates coming!


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Any progress Maarten?


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Here are some more pictures from my first front battery box.




























I want to finish this box by riveting aluminium sheets to the sides. For my back box I used plywood as side panels (page 2-3 in this thread).


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Things finally start progressing a bit more. My coupler is back from the machine shop  . It took them some time, but I'm happy with the end result. They also milled down my flywheel to save a bit of weight. They charged me 250 euro.




























I also asked them to make an adapter plate (estimated price: 370 euros). Unfortunately 'it will be ready at the end of the week' changed into 'we don't have time for it in the next couple of weeks'. So i decided to do some DIY'ing, and bought a 10mm thick aluminium plate (120 euro). Below you see a part of it.




























Now almost done:


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi
I would have got them to take a lot more off the flywheel
assuming you are still using the clutch the raised part between the center six bolts and the outer six bolts is the bit the friction plate needs
Everything outside the outer six bolts (and a couple of mm of metal to keep the bolts happy) is surplus and should be machined off
With an EV its not needed and will reduce acceleration and make the syncros work hrder


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Duncan said:


> Hi
> I would have got them to take a lot more off the flywheel
> assuming you are still using the clutch the raised part between the center six bolts and the outer six bolts is the bit the friction plate needs
> Everything outside the outer six bolts (and a couple of mm of metal to keep the bolts happy) is surplus and should be machined off
> With an EV its not needed and will reduce acceleration and make the syncros work harder


That's a fair point indeed. Wish I thought that through a bit better.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Motor fitted with the new clutch and pressure plate...


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## 67BGTEV (Nov 1, 2013)

Nice progress.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Today the mailman brought this slightly oversized piece of heatsink that I got from ebay. I will only need about half of it to mount my Curtis controller to.










In the mean time, the front battery box is progressing further. I had to leave the lower front part open, because otherwise access to the screws that fixate the battery to the base would be obstructed. The battery box now just needs a lid.










With the motor in place, it is time to start welding a motor mount. It's still a work in progress, but it's coming together. 



















It's the first part that I'm making with my new MIG welder. I eventually decided to invest in one, after I found some undesired ventilation holes. They were pretty well-hidden behind interior parts, and from the outside under a thick layer of Dinitrol paint (which, ironically, is a kind of rust prevention).


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Over the past few days, I finished the motor mount. It's probably not the prettiest of things, but I guess it turned out ok. It will keep the motor in place.




























I also attacked that huge heatsink. It's a bit smaller now. It took some time to get through it with the jigsaw...










Then there was the choice of were I would locate the heatsink + controller in the limited space under the hood. I decided to bolt it to the side of my (now finished) front battery box. I was unsure, however, whether it would heat the battery pack, which wouldn't be ideal. Also air flow isn't ideal there. 

Therefore I DIY'ed an airduct out of PVC pipe that will attach to a 12v blower. The idea is to switch on the blower once a certain temperature is reached. I still have to figure out how to do that, but I'll probably use an Arduino to control the blower.










I used liberal amounts of heat conducting paste between the heatsink and the controller. I was very happy when everything was in place . I still had one finger of space left between the battery box and the hood, and between the battery box and the gearbox. Tight, but it fits.










Please let me know when someone spots some obvious design faults. As always, I'm open for any suggestion.


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

so not trying to be a smart ass or anything
the heatsink fins r up and down so air flow isnt gonna get in to them too much to take heat away
also the batteries might get warm-ish with some spirited driving which wouldnt help the heat sink issue
probably just splitting hairs here but just thought id mention it


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Arklan I don't think that is an issue. If the blower works (it can be switched on by a simple thermal switch firing a relay) it will blow the air vertically over the heat sink fins. 

EVisa 
I suggest you fit a vent in the bonnet above the heatsink so that the hot air escapes immediately. And of course make sure the relay is fused and the blower as waterproof as possible. A boat keel ventilator would work well. 

Motor mount looks good. I would make a cover for the motor terminals and same on the controller. Also, it looks like you can fit a big second pack over the motor all the way across! Lots of room. 

Going well!


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Looking at engine/motor mounts I'd consider some kind of safety loop to avoid motor going to far upside when driver's enthusiasm orders large dI/dt values (you know, them electrics have a lot of instant torque...) Reaction from wheel torque will stretch front rubber mounts till they break, unless you provide some kind of limiting strap, for example ~3mm steel cable around front of the motor with some slack to allow movement under normal conditions. 
Vertical radiator fins are good configuration, just take a look at pictures in TC charger's manual; in fact it's the best orientation for passive air flow from convection.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thank you guys for all the input.


The idea of the blower is indeed to blow air vertically over the heat sink. I like the idea of a marine blower (that's exactly what I got ). It's a fairly strong blow so should be up to the job. I just hope it won't consume to much power. It is rated at 30-40W. 

Link to blower: http://www.ebay.com/itm/27150252413...iewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:BE:3160&vxp=mtr



@tylerwatts
It's always a good idea to make a protective cover for motor and controller terminals. I will make them.


I'm not a big fan of a venting hole in the bonnet, as it will change the look of the car, and has to be made waterproof as well (as it would sit exactly above the controller and other future components). What I can do is to leave the panel out (it's location is arrowed in picture below, so that hot air can escape trough the existing ventilation holes under the windscreen.











Fitting a second big pack (rather than two smaller ones) would be so nice... Horizontally there surely is enough space. Unfortunately, there isn’t enough available height … The cardboard box shown below is about the size of a battery box for a 96v pack... 














@z_power
Your comment about motor torque makes me want to drive the cars already … I never really thought about vertical (upwards) force. I only considered rotational force. Using 3mm steel cable surely sounds doable. Thanks for the idea. Do you have an example of this?


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

@z_power: I came across this post by dougingraham in Moltenmetal 's build thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=406457&postcount=55 

Clearly rotational force can quickly turn into vertical force if a motor mount snaps . Safety loop it will be...


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi EVisa 
That vent looks OK but ideally can you make a simple duct to direct the air that way? Especially when the fan is running. 

Also, can you lie your batteries on their side to make them long and low? Or even lie them flat and put 2 or 3 on top and then some sideways? Looks like a few options. 

But progressing well! Well done.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I've seperated the remaining 96V module into two 48V modules. Even a 48V module proves not to fit...

I'm gonna have to be creative here

p.s.: at least the motor fits without a nose job


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

There will always be setbacks, and changes in plan, but you're doing good work and making good progress- you'll get there! You will be driving this thing before you know it, and you will enjoy it!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks

My project so far has been one of carefully considering the inches (or rather millimeters) available. Despite minimal tolerances, everything has worked out very well so far. Sometimes to my own surprise. 

At this point, however, I might have to think outside of the box... euh... to fit the boxes 

There is plenty of space, but the available space just doesn't have a convenient shape... So I may have to go for an inconvenient shape to fit into a convenient space. (Hope this makes sense). 

For now, my ruler is my friend, kind of...


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## blisspacket (Mar 17, 2009)

You have created a fascinating, inspirational thread, EVisa. thanks for all especially the photography.
I have a similar project, but it's waterborne--an electric boat--so very different parameters.
I found a wrecking yard Nissan Leaf Li battery, 24kW. You mentioned charging yours, and you probably know that long-term storage should be at 50-60 percent of charge, unlike leadacid batteries. In using mine, I've never found them to get even a bit warm. The Leaf container uses no venting or cooling. For cars sent to colder regions, they do have thin warmer covers. 

My info comes from www.powerstream.com. Another interesting limit: max charge per cell 4.1 volts yields 2000 cycles; max charge of 4.2 drops yield to 500 cycles. That's assuming an 80% depth of discharge.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hello everyone, 

It has been a while since my last update. Being busy with other things at least gave me the chance to think about my front battery box problem. 

One of the more boring tasks on an EV is creating cardboard boxes that can give an idea of the shape of your actual components. The time was fruitfully spent, however, since I found a way to mount my remaining 2 x 2KWh of battery.










Unfortunately, the only way to make the battery packs fit is mounting them tilted and upside-down. It's not my preferred orientation, but at least it fits... only just... So I'm making the boxes as compact as possible. In the mean time, my new MIG welder is becoming a good friend .




























@blisspacket I haven't charged my batteries yet. I will do so once I finish the boxes, HV cabling, and charging system.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I've mounted the accelerator pedal under the hood like a potbox, so that I could keep the original throttle pedal. 










I also patched up the unwanted ventilation hole near the driver's feet.










And finally...  Those front boxes went in!










Now I'm still fighting with the (lack of) space, because quite some components still need to find their place...


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Guys, I am running into various problems, none of which can’t be resolved, I’m sure. 


With all battery packs in place (but not yet wired up), the focus now is on how to hook all components together as efficiently as possible, given the constraints of available remaining space. While trying to upload as many photos as possible, I’m aware that they can represent only that much.


Components that remain to be fit include the DC-DC converter (Meanwell 350w), energy gauge (EV display), contactor (Tyco 24v), wiring from and to the controller (Curtis 1238-6501), heater (2 audi 12V-PTC heater elements –will post details soon), charger (3Kw charger from evassemble.com), 12V air blower for controller and motor cooling (Attwood Turbo 3000), and the accompanying cabling, fuses, relays, battery terminal covers, etc. 


It took me some days pondering about because everything hangs together. At this stage, I understand that I should post some wiring diagrams for you all to help out in the thinking process. In this post, however, I would like to draw attention to one component specifically; the charger and its compromised positioning.











The only reasonable place to put it is in the boot, next to the rear battery box. I call this positioning compromised, because a) the lower half of the charger might not get adequate cooling from the heatsink, and b) it protrudes boot space (less important argument).


Therefore, I’m considering the, potentially stupid, idea of splitting the charger in two pieces. The 3Kw charger basically consists out of two 1.5Kw chargers in parallel, as I found out from the fantastic contributors to this forum. 


If I could install the 'two pieces of charger' stacked in length, rather than on top of each other (which I might ‘just’ get away with, while still replacing rear light bulbs, I might get a) better cooling for the charger, and b) a more flat surface in the boot. 



Oh please, can someone impede my potential surgical stupidity here?


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

just to add
i have my ng3 charger under the passenger seat, its pretty flat though


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks, I've considered that, but unfortunately it doesn't fit under any of the seats...


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

While still figuring out other things, I spend my Sunday morning mounting my SOC meter gauge (EV display). I found some space inside the big front battery box to fit it. That's another little job done (it should be plug and play from here). 










(Top view


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

All 4 battery packs got connected over the weekend, and yesterday they got their first charge 

The charger works great, and charges the packs upto 98.4V (4.1V per cell). The charger did get hotter than I expected, so cooling for the bottom half of the charger might remain an issue.

I'm really happy with this new step in the conversion process.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Dear EV co-enthusiasts,

Today was supposed to be a happy day for me, but it didn't work out that way. The motor hasn't made a turn, while I was hoping it would...

Over the past days, I've finalized my LV (low voltage) wiring from and to the controller, as well as the 3-phase (HV) cabling from the controller to the motor.

With everything hooked up, I've got the Curtis controller (1238-6501) to blink the orange light (saying it's fine and ready to rock). The disappointment came when the error 47 (HPD -'High Pedal Disable'/Sequencing Fault) came up when applying the throttle. 

According to the manual, this fault code is caused by an incorrect sequence of KSI (key switch input), interlock (microswitch inside the throttle pedal, which is not hooked up), direction (not used) and throttle inputs.

I am using a Curtis style FB-6 pedal, with pin 15 connected to high, pin 16 as wiper, and pin 18 as low. As said, the microswitch is not connected.

It appears as if the controller expects a message from the microswitch, but doesn't get any, and therefore disables the throttle input. I would be very grateful if anyone could help me out.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Hook up the microswitch- it's an essential safety feature against the pot losing its mind.

Take a look at the Curtis wiring diagram- it's pretty self-explanatory. Use the outer pair of contacts- the drawing and manual are confusing but it's quite clear in the photograph that you are to use the outer pair of contacts.

Then go into diagnostic mode and check your throttle type setting. Mine was wrong from the factory. Didn't get any error messages though.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

BTw Evisa- don't lose heart, you're oh so close!

Keep at it- you'll figure it out. Just be careful and go slow, preferably with one hand in your pocket Be careful both with the controller low voltage/control side AND with the high voltage.


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## cpct (May 31, 2012)

EVisa said:


> Dear EV co-enthusiasts,
> 
> Today was supposed to be a happy day for me, but it didn't work out that way. The motor hasn't made a turn, while I was hoping it would...
> 
> ...



We got stuck on this same error for days when we tried to run the first time, even when the controller had worked outside the car some days before... This was with a Curtis 1238-7601. It was super frustrating, since we checked the wiring again and again. Stupidly, I cannot remember exactly what solved it, since we tried so much. Below some first thoughts, will try to remember in the meantime...

First make sure the type of throttle pedal is definitely correct in the controller settings. Microswitch is unused in most throttle types. In our case both sides of the wiper are used. You can probably use the microswitch as KSI, but since it provides the power to the logic of the controller, I believe this is a bad idea.

Secondly, you say direction signal is unused. But it could act weird if you do not connect it at all. It is possible Curtis added internal pullups or smth, maybe this was mentioned in the manual. Anyway, to be sure, connect it fixed to GND or the controller's 12V/5V.

Ensure correct interlock type in the programmer. And how is KSI wired currently?


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

EVisa said:


> I’m considering the, potentially stupid, idea of splitting the charger in two pieces.
> If I could install the 'two pieces of charger' stacked in length, rather than on top of each other.


 

I did it so it cant be stupid. Only problem is getting new sheetmetal to cover the charger up again and then your biggest concern is cooling.
You should have at least an 80mm (240v) fan for each charger and don't bother doing math for this, these things get hot and you do NOT want that kind of heat in your boot!.
So you could design new sheetmetal with fan mounting holes in them like I have.
Tell you what. I will Email you a laser pattern that you can give to your local laser cutter and he can cut and bend them in 1.2mm galvanized steel.
or even polished stainless ?
The Elcon heatsinks vary slightly from 1.5kW to 2kW so give me measurements of the heat sink and I will knock something up.


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## RIPPERTON (Jan 26, 2010)

Cant upload dxf. files to the forum but this jpg. is what you email to the laser guy with the dxf.
You can bolt the 2 heat sinks together end to end by the fins.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Hey EVisa- we need an update- we're worried about you!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Dear Friends,

Thanks for the concerns, luckily I'm totally fine . I've went through some smaller and some bigger EV crises though.

This means, we're not running yet, but we'll get there soon. I've mentioned it before, and I'll emphasize it again, one of the basic skills required for an EV conversion includes patience, hard as it may sound when you're almost at the point to get your car running.

I'll elaborate on these issues soon. Watch this post, I'll tell you all about it (with photos), but now it's bed time... (I'd wish it wasn't)
After work tomorrow I'll try to get an update together.

Cheers to you all,
Maarten


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Worried you were laying in the floor after a Nast high voltage DC electric shock or something! Glad you're all right- looking forward to your saga!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi all,

Firstmost I want to thank all who have commented, advised and/or supported me on/in previous issues I ran into.

It has been a while since I gave an update on my progress (probably since early May). I just needed some time off the project, since stuff like work, house renovation, and family matters started to suffer from my impatience to finish the E-visa.

While facing the finish line, I hit a number of setbacks. Some of them are already resolved, others aren't. Some are/were due to stupidity from my end, other are/weren't. I'll list some of them below.

Also, due to a computer virus, I've lost the photos from the modest progress I did make in the mean time.... oops

1) In my last posts, we've discussed my error 47, which led to no action from the controller at all. This was resolved after waiting a week for a .14$ connector pin, which was to be placed in my 35-=curtis pin. 

2) Ripperton gave a nice suggestion about charger placement. Huge thanks! I do want to pursue along these lines, but for now, a charger sitting lose in the bonnet isn't my first priority (unfortunately). I'll rebuild the charger once the Evisa runs.

3)Shoops.... My EV display (energy meter) didn't work. I had been so stupid to swap the /in/ and /out/ side of the component that isolates the HV (high-voltage) from the LV (low voltage) circuit. Silly mistake, but easily made. given 'smart' locating it took me half a day to fix. It's embarrassing (the schematics are clear), but I mention it as a reminder for others nonetheless.

4) I almost had a fire, but definitly a lot of smoke. (while solving the KSI issue (#1 above) I needed some 12V supply when the key was turned on, but none when the key was switched off. While this sounds straigthforward, something went wrong, and I still don't understand fully why (a multimeter should be a clear indication that what you're doing is infe...). Something shorted, and a (inaccessible) wiring loom got damaged, which took me another weekend to fix.

5) I did manage to install my 350W Meanwell dc-dc converter (pics will follow). Unfortunately it doesn't meet my LV energy needs. I guess I need a 12v battery (but I don't now where I could place it), or change my bulbs for LED's. 

My biggest drawback is #6, however. I'll make that #1 in next post, but at least now you've had a staccato update of what has been going on.


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Hello EVisa 
Nice to hear from you again. I look forward to reading about your progress. Good work so far.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Ok, here comes setback number 6 (the main reason the car isn't running yet)...

After I fixed the earlier issues that prevented me from doing a first test run with the wheels up in the air, I've managed to rev the motor. The fun didn't last very long, however. At a second attempt, the motor ran extremely sluggish, and it still does. 

The motor spins, but doesn't make any serious rev's before the Curtis 1238 controller throws error code 73 at me (stalled motor), indicating that 'Control mode changed to LOS -Limited Operating Strategy-, and then dies. The Curtis manual is pretty clear, and points towards either motor encoder failure, faulty wiring, or problems with the power supply of the encoder.

I've reduced the length of wiring between the encoder to the controller to the bare minimum (tip I read on the forum), and re-soldered the connections (should be OK now, but didn't make a difference). 
I do measure 5V between the encoder + and - terminals (should be OK). 
A closer look at the optical sensor revealed it got scruffed... (not OK). This probably happened when first revving the motor due to a malaligned encoder wheel...

So today I've ordered two new sensors from the manufacturer (US digital), one of them as a spare. I really hope that replacing the sensor, and re-aligning the encoder wheel will solve the issue...


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I’ve measured the optical sensor’s output (with the throttle engaged). To be clear, I’ve powered the + side of the sensor with 5v with the – connected to ground, and read the two sensor output channels as an analog input to an Arduino. 
The graph below shows the result. At first there is some sensor start-up transient, then we see the sensor signal, at finally we see the motor shutting off. 










It’s a pretty amateuristic set-up, but to me it confirmed that the signal didn’t look anything like what was expected to be seen here (from the US digital data sheet; http://cdn.usdigital.com/assets/datasheets/EM1_datasheet.pdf?k=635726735529262411 ).


Also, I appear to have downsampled the signal from 200 Hz to 4 Hz for no apparent reason. I can’t replicate those data anymore, since I’ve broken the already broken sensor to have a better look at it.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Something rolled out of my garage today... Still some work to be done, though 

Thanks to you all for the great support. 

Disclaimer: don't be freaked, the neighbor was just mowing his lawn at a very unfortunate time. 

p.s.: need to fix a brake light


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

at the end, sounds like youv done a cv or one of the wheels is scrubbing
looks kinda jerky aswell, what gear were u in?


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Yeah, it's kind of hard to hear with the background noise. Right at the end you hear the handbrake. I'm pretty sure there are no scrubbing wheels but around 1:02 there is a funny sound as well. I'll post another video so that you can hear all the other squeaks and noises. 

It is jerky to drive indeed. All goes well if you really feather the throttle and be very very kind to it. But even in second gear you have to be careful to pull off without wheelspin... I'm not sure whether that is an issue of me getting used to driving an EV, or an overly violent torque map on the Curtis.


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

EVisa said:


> It is jerky to drive indeed. All goes well if you really feather the throttle and be very very kind to it. But even in second gear you have to be careful to pull off without wheelspin... I'm not sure whether that is an issue of me getting used to driving an EV, or an overly violent torque map on the Curtis.


with my car, first gear is








second gear is also a bit this way
i start off in third and use 4th on the highway
it doesnt have a 5th coz its old, so 4th is the same ratio as 5th
reverse is







in a big way, i wouldnt let anyone else drive my car unless i knew they werent going to be using reverse

i think u can forget about 1st and second, just take off in 3rd or 4th and it should be much smoother (atleast it is for mine)


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Congratulations! 

A touchy throttle is far easier to fix than a sluggish one! There is an acceleration parameter in the Curtis that can be adjusted, and there's also the means to adjust the span of the throttle input. There's an econo/valet switch too which gives you the option to set very sluggish parameters of you're worried. Mine is not jerky at all, and reverses as smoothly as it ever did. When you're on pavement you won't be spinning the wheels as much either.


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## arklan (Dec 10, 2012)

mines a zilla so no such luck :'(


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi folks, 
it's been a few days since I gave an update, but unlike last time I stayed away for a while, it's because of











 I've been having a blast this week. 

I never imagined to have my car running so quickly without any major issues. In this post, I'll start with the negatives, and end with the positives.

The issues I have had are:
- I don't have a Curtis programmer... 
- SO MUCH TORQUE... 
- I found out the use of the EV display's feature of changing the current direction through the display... 
- I had to re-adjust the clutch because it was slipping a bit . I might tighten it up a bite more still. 
- off-throttle regen isn't working (but everything else is; hence, another cry for a Curtis programmer). I've installed a fourth pedal for regenerative braking, which is working pretty effectively but a bit... well...







enough said... I'll just be careful with it 

- My dc-dc converter (MeanWell 350W) still switches off whenever I turn on the headlights, and with it off course goes the entire car. It handles all other loads perfectly (haven't checked the rear window defroster though, since I didn't really found the need to do that in summer). I don't have an auxiliary 12V battery attached to it, but doing so seems to be a good solution (any ideas about how many Ah ?, I'm thinking about a gel battery, Li-ion seems expensive).
- The motor gets hot, and hasn't got any surplus cooling installed.
- Rust on the rear wings still needs fixing. 
- I want some wiring from the controller to look a bit better, I've bought some good looking weather-tight connectors to replace my previous spade terminal efforts (which look a bit like a forrest of wires).
- I still like Ripperton's suggestion for better charger cooling (it's one page back)
- I need to prevent myself and others from driving off when the charger is still plugged in. I know it sounds silly, but it has happened before for some of us, and it probably will happen again...

- I can't think of any other issues right now, but I'm sure there will be a whole other list of them to follow.


That said, keep on reading, this story is becoming more and more interesting as you advance through it.

I've done a lot of small jobs:
- I've attached the front wings and bot front and rear bumper.
- I've refurbished all dull looking plastics like bumpers, mirrors, etc. (hint; the 'black plastic refubisher' I bought some time ago does nothing near the job that simple compressor oil does). 
- I've installed the blower to air-cool the controller. I may have a few air losses, but it works like a charm nevertheless, controller stays cool.
- I've installed a kind of old but functioning radio
- lots of other small stuff...

*OK, ok, now finally here is... my test drive build-up experiences.*

- My test drive in the garden can be seen in a post above.
- With front wings, bumpers, license plates attached, I took my oldest son for a ride around the village. 
-went OK
- next day, I took the kids for a 21 km (+-13 miles) ride, while stopping, just before half way, for them to play (and for me to check a couple of things on the car) -went OK 
- Standing still for a few month meant the brakes were seized a bit. Today, I took my car to a mechanic to have my front brakes cleaned for 20 EUR/USD. Now they are free. It is'nt that I need to use them a lot, but they are working much better now, which is a nice assurance. 

LONG STORY SHORT:
Today, I drove 54 km (+-33 miles) with the E-Visa. I haven't had any issue. The EV display showed a remaining fuel level of 28% when I got home EV-grinning. This 'fuel level' means that whenevr it gets to zero, I will have 30% SoC left. Some hilly terrain and newbie driving souplesse was involved, but by extrapolation this would give me (given comparable driving style) a range of 75 km (45.5 miles).

Hence my opening post "get a range of 40-50 miles", well, that makes me a very happy man.


Thanks to you all. Without the commitment of this DIY-EV community, I wouldn't have been able to pull this off. And I am very grateful, words can't even express. 

I do want to make a small statement, however. Recently, we're seeing some very beautiful pieces of art/engineering to be delivered. I don't consider my project to be one of them, at least not up to the professional standards that have been raised by some of these projects. These projects are beauties on there on, and they serve a great purpose to the DIY communitym because there is so much to learn from. But, as a DIY, a home mechanic, I can only emphasize that YOU CAN DO THIS, you can convert a car to electric. You will need to study a lot, and work hard, but never forget.. It is very rewarding, and worth the expense. 



-


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Congrats and best wishes on a successful project! The rest is mere tinkering and clean-up!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Moltenmetal, 
I want to thank you especially for the small thumbs up you've given me throughout the project. Sometimes, if not all of the times, small encouragements can make a huge difference to the little boy sitting in the garage with his head down. 

Thanks,
Maarten


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

I was given many similar votes of confidence and encouragement along the way- this is a great community! Besides, you do have a lot to be proud of- your project has some complexity that mine certainly didn't, though your car was in far better shape!

Your kids have good reason to be proud too, though they will figure that out when they grow a little older!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Just smiles...


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

Maarten,
This nice feeling inside your guts when you put first kms on your's work effect - priceless 
I use MeanWell too with it's output trimmed to ~13,8V; it's connected in paralel with 17 or 20Ah gel battery from retired UPS. This way my DC-DC and all other HV loads are switched off when car is parked and I can still listen to the radio  So far it's been working OK, even in coldest months. 
To avoid 12V drawback trough dcdc it's connected to battery and rest of circuits trough automotive 70A relay.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks guys,

I was thinking about a 18-20 Ah gel battery, so that seems spot on .
I did buy a smaller one, however (14 Ah). It's a bit of a gamble as to whether it will be up to the job, but it has the benefit of physically being smaller, which should give me more options for fitting it under the hood. It is a deep cycle gel battery.

Yesterday, I haven't driven the car, but i've fixed a side indicator and brake light, applied a thick layer of bitumen undercoating in one of the wheel arches, and adjusted the clutch a bit further.

issues so far:
- Something I hear a noise from the clutch when engaging third gear. The noise would dissappear after depressing and releasing the clutch pedal (slipping clutch?). I heared this noise before (and a lot more often), making the clutch a bit thighter has made it go away (except for once or twice on my test drive). Hopefully another readjustment will fix it. Maybe the new clutch cable is stretching a bit.

- I had a loose ground connection on the 12V system, easy fix. 

- by biggest concern: I've found a few drops of gearbox oil...  It's coming out of the input shaft (motor side). I really hope this has resulted from jacking the car for the brake service + applying undercoating. Hopefully the motor didn't suck up any oil.... I've cleaned it from below, and will be monitoring it closely. I'd really hate to remove the front battery boxes + motor to inspect/replace any seals...

- another big concern: the motor (AC-31) gets really hot after a long drive... 67BGTEV has the same motor and mentioned 145°C (from his Curtis display), He mentioned earlier in this thread that max temperature for a HPEVS motor is 160C, but I have no means to monitor motor temperature.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Puzzled over your clutch: no clutch I've worked with has anything to adjust to "tighten" it.

My AC50 has an embedded temperature sensor, and the Curtis controller has motor and controller temperature in the list of parameters displayed during drive mode on the Spyglass display. Don't know why the AC-31 wouldn't have these. I believe that 67BGT is monitoring that temperature.

Programming via the Spyglass and the "menu" button is a bit cumbersome, but with the software programming "script" in front of you (easy to download from Curtis' or HPEVS websites), this method allows you to adjust most parameters easily enough- and if you screw up, it's easy to avoid saving the wrong data. I don't have a Curtis programmer and won't need one.

The high motor temperatures would concern me for sure. The hottest my AC50 gets during a long drive in hot weather is about 70 C. For an internal temperature, that's not a big concern. What does concern me a bit more in my own build is that the controller temperature has gone as high as 55 C during the same long hot-weather trips. The muffin fan under my controller's heatsink plate is still working fine. The controller does have software to limit power if the controller temperature gets too high as a means of self-protection, and this has not kicked in yet in my driving, but I'd be concerned about long-term durability of the components if I saw these temperatures on a daily basis.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Well, the Citroën Visa doesn't have a lot of complex features, but it does have an adjustable clutch arm. Some car models have adjustable clutch cables, others haven't. From the two other cars we own, one has an adjustable clutch cable, the other hasn't (hydraulic clutch).

The AC-31 does have an internal temperature switch that you can access though a Spyglass. Unfortunately, I don't have a Spyglass... The Curtis controller indeed manages motor temp but I don't know at which temp the controller is set to cut back power.

The motor temp does concern me, so I'm thinking of additional cooling. The motor has an internal fan, but the way it is mounted, it pushes the air forwards, while the headwind would arguably push the air back in the other direction. 

I'm thinking about additional aircooling with a marine blower, either pushing air through the starter hole (not an easy fit), or sucking hot air out at the front. Alternatively water cooling comes to mind, with copper tube winded around the motor. But I think this will only be effective when the tubing around the motor is very tight.

Well, good news is that my controller seems to be fine temperature-wise. It did get warm after my test drive through the garden, but everytime I stopped on test drives since, it was fine. Looks like my blowing system is doing it's job. I operate it with a switch on the dash now, since the thermal switch I ordered works the wrong way around (open at <50°C, closed at >°50).

Other good news... My 12V battery arrived (<24h for international shipping is an impressive new record ). It can be seen below at the left of the blower. And now the headlights work  (still some tidying up to do under the hood, though..). The meanwell dc-dc is at the right of the front battery pack. The grey cable at the front isn't doing anything, but is is there for should I want a front charging port (now I'm still charging with the trunk open).


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

After another short test run (10km/6 miles), there is no gearbox oil to be seen... let's keep fingers crossed... 

and 85% usable range remaining


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Wow- I'd be getting a Spyglass! Don't know how you've managed without one!

Otherwise looking very good there!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I do have an EV display. It informs me about the batteries, SOC, Ah, W, A, battery pack temps, etc. But it doesn't talk to the Curtis controller... 

By the way, I just came back from a very hilly, touristic 45 km (28m) drive. Again, motor hot, controller a bit warmish. Without charging from my previous trip, 32% energy left (at 0% energy, I still have 30% SoC left).

Unfortunately, a few drops of gearbox oil again... Not anywhere as much as before. I'm still hoping these are the remainder of what entered the bell housing before. I will clean it again tonight and keep monitoring, because I don't like this.

I did identify the trembling noise of what I previously thought was coming from the clutch. It happens whenever the motor is spinning without any load (hence, either throttle or regen). It's the same noise as when revving in neutral. I really want to enable off-throttle regen, that would make the car sound a bit more healthy.

Overall I'm very happy, but still concerned with motor temperature and the possible gearbox oil leakage.


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## Hugh-Falls (Aug 9, 2010)

When you fitted your adapter plate (motor to transmission) did you make sure that both axes were concentric? If so, I don't recall your use of dowel pins to insure that the assembly remains concentric. The oil leak could be at oil seal caused by induced input shaft run-out. Tension type pins (roll pins/Spirol pins) can be installed in simple drilled holes to lock parts together.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks Hugh-Falls for your comment. I do believe you are correct that the seal at the input shaft might be to blame for the leak of gearbox oil. I've ordered a new seal, and while not looking forward to removing and relocating the motor, I will pay even closer attention to a correct allignment when I do.

I haven't used dowel pins (thanks for the suggestion), and assumed that torquing up the four bolts evenly would suffice to keep everything alligned. I'll post the results of surgery when the new seal has arrived.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

So, I guess its time for a little update on how the EVisa is doing. It has only done +- 300 km (185 miles) for now.

Summary:
Issues:
1- gearbox oil leak
2- motor feels hot
3- (front) brake callipers seized
4- Too much torque in 2nd gear and reverse (1st gear is a no-no altogether)

Good news:
- everything else feels and works great 
- I've been charging regularly, so haven't depleted the batteries to 30% DoD, but my extrapolated range is 75 km (46 miles)


Update:
1- I'll just fix the gearbox leak, hope fitting a new seal on the input shaft will work 

3- I had my callipers freed just a few weeks ago, but got stranded with cooking brakes nonetheless... The right front calliper just refuses to pull back in after the brakes are engaged. The brakes obviously operate worse no, than before the EVisa went to the garage. This time I'm going to replace the front callipers altogether, and I'm going to do it myself to make sure it's done properly. 
It's a shame, because I don't really use the brakes that much altogether, but as a basic safety feature on any rolling device, they simply have to work properly. Therefore, new front callipers, discs and pads for the EVisa...

2- and 4- Tada...










An insanely expense (500 euro) Curtis 1313-4401 programmer arrived today .

It will allow me to monitor motor temp, and also to torque down the motor at low speeds.

My plans with the programmer are (in order):
- save current settings
- adjust: 
*Accel Rate (should give a smoother response to throttle input; thanks Moltenmetal)
*Brake Rate (I did inadvertently surprise a BMW on one of my test drives , with brake lights ON -obviously-)
*Neutral Braking (I don't have any NB right now, for some reason. Will go with 20% at first, then adjust in either direction)
*Gear Soften (want to smoothen acceleration, A Citroën Visa isn't and shouldn't be a rocket)
*Position Hold Enable/Kp (It would be great not to roll backwards on uphill slopes without negociating the hand brake)

*Maybe Forward Map/Reverse Map, and some other (non-exotic) settings 

Any advice is appreciated, like always.
Will keep posting updates on my progress.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I love this programmer already. By just (conservatively) changing some basic settings, the car has become a million times more driveable. 

At first, I turned it down a bit too much (Accel -acceleration delay- 1.5s; Gear Soften -skewing down the torque curve- 40%), the car went a bit too slow for my liking. I now have (Accel 1s; Gear Soften 30%).

The car now feels more capable compared to my first adjustments, but not as explosive as before. Slow speed maneuvering is now very gentle. This has greatly improved the daily usability (and safety) of the car.

I'm now tackling off-throttle regenerative braking (neutral braking), and rollback prevention on upward slopes. I am amazed how customizable these Curtis controllers are, that's just really cool.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

It is a shame in my opinion that you had to splash out on that expensive programmer to adjust a few parameters that you could have adjusted easily enough with a Spyglass and a pushbutton switch...but I'm very glad that you're taking full advantage of the features of the controller. I'm very satisfied with the features and programmability of my Curtis controller as well- it's a really simple solution which yielded, in my case, a car which was driveable right out of the box- once I had the throttle type set correctly that is!

Now that I've played with the acceleration and regen current limit settings, the car is even more enjoyable to drive, which is somewhat hard to believe actually- it was a blast even before I started tinkering!.

Best of luck with your brakes and that stupid oil seal- it's a shame when the "legacy components" of your donor car get in the way of your EV enjoyment! 

I hope you don't have too much shaft run-out due to misalignment, causing this oil leak- it was this kind of issue exactly that I was worried about which prevented me from making my own, and which pushed me to buy CanEV's adapter plate and hub. Expensive, but highly idiot-resistant, which suited me fine. I saved enough on the low-tech metal-bashing of the restoration in my view, to pay for the peace of mind given to me by the adapter and hub. The adapter uses the original dowel pins for alignment, and the hub has the pick-up bearing for the end of the transmission shaft built right into it- it dropped right onto the transmission and bolted up without any fuss or bother.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

I think I should have done my homework a bit better before buying the expensive programmer, but at least I may recover some of that cash by selling in on once I'm satisfied with all the settings.

There is some good news regarding the stupid oil seal...
It was a real pain to get a new seal, as an original replacement was impossible to get. In the end I did manage to get a 20x36.5x8mm seal. Unfortunately, the French Citroën engineers back in the day thought it would be a nice idea to put the seal at the inside of the bellhousing... 

Luckily, I could reach all 12 bolts in one way or another. If this wasn't the case, replacing the <5$/EUR seal would have meant removing the gearbox altogether, along with front battery boxes, controller, aux battery, dc-dc converter, and the implied HV/LV wiring .












The holes in the adaptor plate do have some play, which probably would have introduced some misalignment. Therefore I decided to bolt the bellhousing to the adapter plate, thereby making use of dowel pins of the bellhousing to put it in the car concentrically as one unit, once I was happy with the alignment of the clutch, input shaft, and oil seal. I used an input shaft from a spare gearbox to make sure all was well, and my home-made adapter plate didn't need any modification. 

- In the process, I found out the set screw of the coupler was missing, probably because of a poor job on my side.

- Another major improvement came by installing a pilot bearing, which is basically the piece that would keep the gearbox input shaft concentric while engaging the clutch (it sits in the center of the flywheel). I didn't have any before, and was happy to find out that the inside diameter of my motor shaft is 18mm. A Citroen 2cv 12/18mm pilot bearing (again <5$/EUR) was a perfect fit. 










The two issues above (missing set screw, no pilot bearing) by themselves could have easily caused the oil leak I believe. And by ruling out any serious misalignment, I'm very happy that after a lot of work, I now have a leak-free gearbox . And miraculously , some strange shifting noises have vanished...


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

You too have been suffering with drivetrain problems like this- I feel your pain! VERY glad your problems are being solved now, one by one.

I still have rattles and other noises which irritate me, and I'm sure eventually something will fail and let me know the cause- or it could be a little "musician" like the misplaced screw on my transmission tunnel cover making a racket disproportionate to its size. But either way, being rid of the exhaust noise makes every other noise much more apparent!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

With the brakes and gearbox leak now fixed, the EVisa is gently starting to leave the testing phase. With new front tires and shock absorbers to be fitted soon, the mileage will start piling up.

Next step is getting a heater to defrost the wind shield in winter (hopefully warming the cabin a bit as well).


I am considering an Audi auxiliary PTC heater. These are used in Diesel-powered cars when the ICE is in warm-up phase, but operate at 12V. For obvious reasons, I want a heater powered by the traction pack (96v nominal). This is where I would appreciate some help.

This is what I got:










Designing a safe heater would require at least:

- Wiring the heater elements so that they can operate at 96v (nominal)
- Using a Solid State Relay or contactor and appropriate fusing to switch the heater on (maybe a thermal safety switch as well?)

Let's start with wiring the PTC elements.


I’m unsure about the stock wiring, apart from that it would operate from a 12V supply. There are six terminals on each PTC element (|| || ||). Here you can see the resistances I’ve measured across the terminals.










So, this is what my simple mind lets me believe:


If I use a single PTC element, and power it at 96V at the outer terminals (96Vpos-->|| || ||-->96Vneg), Ohm's law tells me that 96V / 6.5 Ohm = 14.77A.
Which would give me a 14.77A*96V=1418W heater. 


This leads me to believe this is a pretty good plan. So, my question is, am I missing something obvious here?


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

The resistance increases with temperature, current and power decrease. Measure the resistance when the heater is hot to estimate what power you will get.


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## z_power (Dec 17, 2011)

I think you can safely experiment with 96V, just use appropriate HV switch and fuse (rated a bit higher than expected current) during tests. It would be handy to have clamp meter for power calculation and IR thermometer to avoid temp check with your fingers


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Hi folks,

I believe I owe you guys an update. 

Over the summer I've performed some cosmetic surgery, cutting away some historic rust on the rear fenders, replacing it with some solid iron. Since then, it was official, the build was over. It's no longer a build, it is done  It's a finished car.

The E-visa has been perfoming brilliantly, and has now travelled over 5000km (3000+ miles) as an EV. 

When the car was just converted, there where a few small issues, such as a faulty encoder and an (motor driveshaft to gearbox) allignment issue, but those were soon solved. 

The heater isn't working brilliantly, but works reliably as a windshield defroster.

After approximately 2000km (1200 miles), my wife got stranded once with a welded contactor fault on the Curtis. I gently tapped it loose with a hammer and an iron bar, and ordered a heavier spec contactor. I remember well ordering it from ev west on friday, saying it was urgent, getting it delivered next monday (in Belgium). I must admit, however, that I still haven't fitted it . 

Apart from that, our little Citroën is running absolutely great. We love it and use it as our family car. Our diesel cars just sit here doing nothing most of the time, and are only used for the longer journeys.

We get a range of about 70 to 85km (45-50 miles) (up to 30% DoD), and the 16kWh Volt-pack is charged up really fast with the 3kW TC-charger. top speed is around 100km/h (62mph) (probably even faster, but I haven't pushed it).

Thanks you all here on the forum for giving me the confidence to pursue this build. It has been a challenging effort, which has taken 
countless hours, but it delivered many nice memories so far and lot's of EV grin .

Cheers!


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## prensel (Feb 21, 2010)

Good Job !

Do you have a recap of what you did to the car ?
Like what engine, gearbox, controller, pack etc ?


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

EVisa: congratulations on your successful conversion! 3000 miles already! And, it sounds like you have a happy Volt pack- remind us what you did for BMS on that?


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

double post, see, below


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks guys,

Over here in Belgium, we’re one of the (very) few that took the challenge of converting a car to electric. Unlike neighboring EU countries, there is no legislative framework for DIY conversions, electric or otherwise. There exist some loopholes, nonetheless. Some of which, we have exploited to get the car on the road legally. 


The car is a Citroën Visa with following spec’s:


Motor: AC-31, regen (very much) enabled


Gearbox: original Citroën 4 speed (1st gear unused)


Coupler: Made by local machine shop


Adaptor plate: DIY mc’Guyvered (didn’t go well at first, but worked splendidly afterwards).


Controller: Curtis 1238-6501 (fitted on thick diy heatsink, air-cooled, connects to AC motor with 70 mm2 cable)


Battery: 16 KWh from Opel Ampera/Chevrolet Volt; 4*96V modules in parallel (180Ah) interconnected with 50mm2 cable.


DC-DC converter: 500W (replaced 350w, which didn’t give enough juice at peak loads) 


Small 14Ah back-up lead-acid deep cycle battery for 12V systems in case of system failures


Charger: 3kW TC-charger from evassemble.com


BMS: the wild version (none)


SOC meter: SOC meter


AND MASSIVE FUN 


Please fellow forum members, keep inspiring people. 

You got us over the edge, running our little car over 3k+ miles on wind, water and solar energy only. 



CO2 emmisions aren't in the negatives (they never will nor can be); but our EV experience has had an impact. So can yours!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

p.s.: I estimate my budget spent at around 6500 euro (all in).
p.p.s.: I kept my clutch, and I'm happy with that choice.
p.p.p.s.: With regen, the brake pads will last a lifetime. 
p.p.p.p.s: Acceleration is better than stock. Top speed is adequate (65mph+).


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Moltenmetal said:


> EVisa: congratulations on your successful conversion! 3000 miles already! And, it sounds like you have a happy Volt pack- remind us what you did for BMS on that?


After +- 15 months and 4000 miles, I did start to worry about cell imbalance, so I followed rwaudio's advice, and ordered a celllog8M (see rwaudio's post in the '2012 Chevy Volt Battery' topic).

I found out that at +- 87% SoC (no load), the cell group (3p) voltages ranged from 4.033v to 4.042v. A maximal cell imbalance < .01v that is, over the 4 parallel modules (i.e., arranged as 96v packs).

I wouldn't advice anyone to run an EV without BMS, I'm just reporting on my experiences running without one. Overall, I think I can be rather happy with these measurements. I conclude for now that I still have some time before bottom- and top-balancing the pack becomes an urgency (but feel free to correct me if you believe otherwise, better safe than sorry).


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

IMHO Volt packs only unbalance under very high discharge rates, like perhaps 600 battery amps for the stock configuration. I was pushing 800 amps when I noticed they were .5 olt different. At 300 amps they stay at .01_.02 difference


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Well, that sounds pretty estonishing still. 
I have no BMS, no battery heating/cooling, unequal cable length between modules, etc. I even hadn't monitored the cells sofar (not a smart idea, I must admit). I was therefore really happy to find out the battery pack was healthy and balanced.

Recently I bought a 12 kWh pack from a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV for my brother's off-grid solar system (he upgraded from an AGM pack). That pack, probably had been sitting for over a year at the breaker's yard (before that it was monitored by the stock BMS), and the voltages of the 80 cells ranged from 3.93v to 3.96v (the cells are now arranged as 11p7s 24v packs), which is way less balanced than my Volt pack (that probably also had been sitting for over a year, before driving it for 4000 miles).
Good stuff...


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

It is with great sadness and disbelief that the family of

_Evisa_

announces it’s passing away on Tuesday October 15th, 2019.

Born in France, early 1987
Reborn in Belgium, 2014-2015


The family will remember Evisa as a joyful closed-one. Evisa has carried the family reliably and safely from A to B for over 4 years and 20000km. Evisa would give the family 70-80km of smiles per charge. 


Evisa reminded us that freak accidents happen and payed a great price for it. Evisa simply was in the right place at the wrong time.


The family would like to express its gratitude to all diyelectriccar members for their support in its process of it’s rebirth as an efficient EV. The ceremony will take place in a private setting. We ask for comprehension in respect for the family members' grief.
​


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)




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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

It is with great sadness and disbelief that the family of

_Evisa_

announces it’s passing away on Tuesday October 15th, 2019.

Born in France, early 1987
Reborn in Belgium, 2014-2015


The family will remember Evisa as a joyful closed-one. Evisa has carried the family reliably and safely from A to B for over 4 years and 20000km. Evisa would give the family 70-80km of smiles per charge. 


Evisa reminded us that freak accidents happen and payed a great price for it. Evisa simply was in the right place at the wrong time.


The family would like to express its gratitude to all diyelectriccar members for their support in its process of it’s rebirth as an efficient EV. The ceremony will take place in a private setting. We ask for comprehension in respect for the family members' grief.
​


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## Tazdevl (Oct 3, 2019)

oooh <snif>


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## Emyr (Oct 27, 2016)

Will Evisa be an organ donor? I'm sure a transplant candidate counld be found with sufficient compatibiity.


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Yes, I'm looking for a new donor for the EV organs.
Unfortunately, legislation around homologating EV conversions has become rather strict in the EU.

Tomorrow, I go and see a Citroën Saxo Electrique.
It will come with papers saying it's electric, type-approval etc.

I'll keep you all updated!


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## EVisa (Jun 30, 2014)

Dear members of the forum,

Unfortunately, progress has been slow. I'm still suffering neckache from the accident (seven weeks after..). I just want to announce that I bought the Saxo Electrique (with dead batteries). I will introduce it to you in due course in a new thread, where you can follow the transplant.

The remains of EVisa have now been valued by my insurance company at 8500EUR. I agreed. I thought this might be of interest for others in the EU, who might suffer (hopefully not) the same fate.

p.s.: technically, EVisa has been valued 8500 before the accident. (to be correct)


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## tylerwatts (Feb 9, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your injuries but glad that the new project is starting and it seems the insurance company was reasonable with you for the value. I will look for your new thread and wish you good luck with it!

Cheers
Tyler


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