# 13 inch GE motor PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!



## Guest (Feb 10, 2011)

Well if it's anything like my 9" GE it will be a kick ass motor if you advance the brushes and put 144 or 156 volts to the thing. Not sure you'd like to take it beyond like 4800 rpm but it will put out a s.it load of torque. 

Pete


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2011)

Looks like you get to be the first to use a 13 GE monster motor. Would love to hear how it performs. Putting it in a truck or something like that or a little old VW? 

Pete


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

Well I hope to put it in a 1966 GT mustang !


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## bumblebee (Jan 29, 2011)

My neighbor used one of those massive folklift motors like this one in his Buick Roadmaster. It works, but it's a pain in the butt to hook up because the shaft does not have a standard spline... it cost almost $1000 to make the shaft collar and then make the coupler. Plus he had to make custom mounts (they don't make 13-inch EV hoops... no one does 

It was also wicked heavy........ he could have added four more batteries in the front if he has just gone with a lighter motor. You can get a nice 8-inch motor for 1/4th of the weight that will move most cars just fine. 

Also, if you use that motor, you will have to put larger rear end gears in as well. Those motors don't like to turn over 2500 rpm, so without overdrive or tall gears, the car won't go very fast.... although they do have tons of torque. You could move an Escalade with that one!


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

bumblebee said:


> My neighbor used one of those massive folklift motors like this one in his Buick Roadmaster. It works, but it's a pain in the butt to hook up because the shaft does not have a standard spline... it cost almost $1000 to make the shaft collar and then make the coupler. Plus he had to make custom mounts (they don't make 13-inch EV hoops... no one does
> 
> It was also wicked heavy........ he could have added four more batteries in the front if he has just gone with a lighter motor. You can get a nice 8-inch motor for 1/4th of the weight that will move most cars just fine.
> 
> Also, if you use that motor, you will have to put larger rear end gears in as well. Those motors don't like to turn over 2500 rpm, so without overdrive or tall gears, the car won't go very fast.... although they do have tons of torque. You could move an Escalade with that one!


 OK bumblebee, you might be just the HERO for me. A couple of question my I ask.

Whats the Pack voltage is he running at? 

How well FAST does the car go?

What kind of controller is he using?

Since he has driven it has he notice anything with the brushes or Com

I have one of these motors in my garage as well! I have a GOOD shaft coupler for it!


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Looks like you get to be the first to use a 13 GE monster motor. Would love to hear how it performs. Putting it in a truck or something like that or a little old VW?
> 
> Pete


Georgia Tech,

Well we may not qualify since our 13 inch GE is in a pulling tractor, but we have a shorter version of that motor installed. We ran it last year one time at 72 volts and wayyyyyyy overgeared and it still drug a 8000 weight transfer sled 150 feet. Torque up the kazoo. We dont expect more then 3500 to 4000 rpm at the expected sagged voltage of 110 to 120 volts and have geared it for.

We are putting the finishing touches on a 170 volt 600 amp Headway battery for this year, will go to 800 amps next year. 

We have a adjustible advance set up so we can find what is best (we can go up to 10 degrees).

That motor is half the price I paid for ours and is longer (ours has at least 4 inch less in the frame). It looks like this one might have an aluminium drive end bell, ours is cast iron and HEAVY. Our shorter motor weighs 305 pounds

If we didn't already have one I would be driving to Elgin IL right now to buy this one.

The 9 inch they have for $125.00 is pretty nice as well.

That thing would move an 8000 pound lift truck around at a good clip at 36/48 volts. Just think what it will do with a 3000 pound truck at 144 + volts.

That is a BIG motor, make sure you have the room and suspension to carry it.


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

Jimdear2 said:


> Georgia Tech,
> 
> Well we may not qualify since our 13 inch GE is in a pulling tractor, but we have a shorter version of that motor installed. We ran it last year one time at 72 volts and wayyyyyyy overgeared and it still drug a 8000 weight transfer sled 150 feet. Torque up the kazoo. We dont expect more then 3500 to 4000 rpm at the expected sagged voltage of 110 to 120 volts and have geared it for.
> 
> ...


The motor you got I think has 40 plus com bars. Mine only has 29 bars. This why I need to know about this motor. I really want to use it. I think I can run it on 144 pack voltage I just wanted to see what anyone else results were.


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## DavidDymaxion (Dec 1, 2008)

Dennis Berube on the NEDRA Yahoo list runs GE 13 inchers. He has done close to 12 seconds in the 1/4 mile with a 3800+ lb truck, and 7's in the 1/4 with his dragster. He does tune his motors but keeps the details a secret.


Georgia Tech said:


> Please I am begging as HARD as I can!!! Please someone I know has used this Motor in an EV or application before! Please I know someone has!
> Can someone tell what details of the setup? How well does this motor perform? Poor ?? Great??
> Please I have look for years look for someon who has put this in a car! Still I have not found one but I know someone has used this motor brfore!
> 
> ...


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Georgia

I think you are right and you should be able to run that motor on a 144v battery
despite the small number of comm bars as a controller drops the voltage it supplies to the motor

Go as high a voltage as your controller can take!!!

Where the comm bars could come in is the design speed - you may over-speed it - but at that price if it blows up sell it for scrap metal and get another one - the vendor says he has more
(but note the speed and try to stay under it in future!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan 
_Hi Guys

Voltages in series DC motors 
- the way I understand it 10 - 20 volts will drive 1000amps through one of these

But you need your 10 - 20 v + the back EMF caused by the motor spinning

So for a given speed and current the motor voltage is going to be Back EMF + 10-20

If you don't increase the speed you can't increase the motor voltage

Therefore your battery voltage is irrelevant - except that a higher voltage will result in a lower battery current

Therefore you should use the highest voltage your controller can handle

Brush advance is also related to speed so the same thing

Have I got this right Major?_
*Hi Dunc,

Not the way I would have said it, but I don't see anything blatantly incorrect with it Thanks for your help 

major*


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Yes, the GE motors are among the best and what a lot of the drag guys want to use. I have a 9" GE and a similar 13" motor with a low bar count. I've put 1000 amps at 153 volts (sag'd from 208) thought the 9" np. 
Burube and Husted think my 13" will work fine.... and Major has helped me with a lot of re-design stuff (was a sep-ex) The conductors in your GE motor are huge and will take whatever your battery can dish out I would think. As Gottdi says, watch the RPM and 4500 to 4800 may be recommended limit (although mod'd they push them higher). As for upper voltage, this is interesting.... David mentioned another time that someone (I think Berube) pushes 300 volts into his. I've also read that the physically larger com diameter helps with zorching issues on larger motors also... just because of the physical distance between brushes if nothing else. With advanced timing, certainly 170 volts wont bother it. Dennis told me that he uses variable brush advance on a timed servo while dragging his.


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

There was a guy called "fixitsteven" who used this in a BMW but I neverd heard the results from it. I think he abandon it before it was finished. I have a TON photos of this motor taken aloose. commutator, Brushes, Field coils.... Just alot of Photos . I can post these tonight!

I would indeed plan on advancing the motor 10 degrees and hope and pray I can use at LEAST a 144 volt battery pack with maybe a 2K controller..
This would be ideal...

You guys are right this thing has Massive amount of copper in the windings... REALLY thick!


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

If it wasn't for the shipping I would be tempted to get the motor myself. It sure sounds like a good buy and cheap too.


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

Yall here are the photos of the guts of this beast...Yall I am for reall please take a look and tell me what yall think!


http://s1102.photobucket.com/albums/g445/r_boulware/GE motor/


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm a little confused. Did you purchase the motor already or are you planning to? The ad you listed in the OP is for a current Ebay auction by MHWC, but you posted pics of a disassembled motor?! If you're planning to bid on it, MHWC's motors have been selling for a little over $200 recently. The bidders typically always wait until the last few days to post a bid, then have a little war in that last hour or so. I bid on a 13" Prestolite and was the winning bidder for a little while (in the last half-hour or so) then the war started in the last five minutes. I was just playing and gave up before getting in over my head. The winning bidder seemed to be serious and willing to go pretty far to get it, so go in armed and ready of you really want it. 

As for the motor, big GE motors are typically beasts (in a good way). The motor that propelled Rocket to 7.60s is a Berube-built 13". The only caveat is it could be a SepEx motor. I bought my GE 11" from MHWC and thought I was purchasing a series wound motor, but it turned out to be SepEx. I was considering purchasing a 12" recently, and called to see how it was wound, but the guy didn't know (or seem to be too interested in finding out). Their customer service is really good, by the way, I just seemed to be asking for information that he wasn't accustomed to providing.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

The motor in the picture is a Series motor hands down. You can tell by the field windings. Big fat flat wire. SepEx has thin round wire. It is series and a beast. Nice and clean too. I'd use it. Damn thing is long too. Makes for even better power. You will however need to add some cooling if you plan on racing this sucker. Wonder what that would do attached to the butt end of a VW Buggy and 220 volts of lithium at the track?


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

gottdi said:


> The motor in the picture is a Series motor hands down. You can tell by the field windings. Big fat flat wire. SepEx has thin round wire. It is series and a beast. Nice and clean too. I'd use it...


There aren't any pics like that in the ad, so I'm wondering if the internal pics are from the motor in the Ebay ad, or just provided as an example of a 13" motor. That's definitely series, but is that the Ebay motor? Is the Ebay motor the one Georgia wants, or was that just an example? MHWC doesn't typically provide diasassembled pics. It looks like they basically clean the motors up, spray some ugly flat paint on them, and sell them.




gottdi said:


> ...Wonder what that would do attached to the butt end of a VW Buggy and 220 volts of lithium at the track?


Nice wheelies!


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

Well I guess Georgia needs to answer that question.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I went back and read through again...


Georgia Tech said:


> ...I have one of these motors in my garage as well! I have a GOOD shaft coupler for it!





Georgia Tech said:


> ...Mine only has 29 bars...


Maybe he does already have one. The Ebay auction link is confusing. Georgia?  

If so, the issue would be with the low bar count on the comm. Maybe it's not that big of a deal, but it would seem to be a limitation on how high you can go with the voltage. He would need someone like Major to give an idea of how far he can go with only 29 bars. I think the typical 11 & 13" motors used in performance/racing apps have like 47, 49, etc.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

Nope, he needs the Motor Guru Jim Husted to answer that question. 

Pete


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I went back and read through again...
> 
> 
> Maybe he does already have one. The Ebay auction link is confusing. Georgia?
> ...


The motor in the photos is the EXACT motor on the Ebay add. I bought this motor form a forklift salvage yard for like 300 bucks or so. It is very clean with very few hours on it. The magic multi-Million dollar question is:
*If I use a pack voltage of 144 volts would it run without have a ZORCH accros the commutator even if I advance the motor 10 degrees! *

I have messed around with this motor on 24 volts and this thing torques up really quick and runns real smooth. I love the motor to death but if its not going to work in my mustang I will have to sadly resort to my 11 inch GE motor that has 49 com bars....I would MUCH rather open the hood and see this nice big block under the hood. But if its not going to work I will have to leave it..


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

Word is out to Jim. Will report the response.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

If it is indeed the GE forklift motor I'm thinking of, then they really should use a new case.... that thing is like 360 pounds!!!! I think the case is 5/8 thick steel... a little bit overkill for an EV motor. Even with a motor that big, 1/4-inch steel would have been fine.

Those forklifts weight almost 8000 pounds and can carry another 6000-pounds on top of that. No car will ever weigh that much...even towing a boat! There's no need for a case that thick...


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

PZigouras said:


> If it is indeed the GE forklift motor I'm thinking of, then they really should use a new case.... that thing is like 360 pounds!!!! I think the case is 5/8 thick steel... a little bit overkill for an EV motor. Even with a motor that big, 1/4-inch steel would have been fine.
> 
> Those forklifts weight almost 8000 pounds and can carry another 6000-pounds on top of that. No car will ever weigh that much...even towing a boat! There's no need for a case that thick...


I used to think that. I was ready to chuck my GE motor's case up on the lathe and whittle away. Actually, I really wanted to make an aluminum one, with cool cooling fins, then I asked the experts. The case material and size are actually a part of the motor's design. Read the first page of this thread.


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## PZigouras (Jun 5, 2010)

I was really under the impression that the flux density facing the rotor would be the same regardless if the case was 3/8 or 5/8 thick steel... squeezing one side of the EM would not affect the field strength on the other side. But, I could be wrong.

Still, the Warp 9 has a much thinner case than the ADC 9-inch, and it seems to work fine... no efficiency loss there, right???


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

PZigouras said:


> I was really under the impression that the flux density facing the rotor would be the same regardless if the case was 3/8 or 5/8 thick steel... squeezing one side of the EM would not affect the field strength on the other side. But, I could be wrong.
> 
> Still, the Warp 9 has a much thinner case than the ADC 9-inch, and it seems to work fine... no efficiency loss there, right???


 
Well actually the case DOES indeed play a big role in the Magnetic circuit of the field poles. It is like makeing the case thinner would lower the torque per amps of this thing. You would not lower the effecienty nessarly But the torque would drop while the RPM would go up. So unless you know how much your cutting your total Flux and why. Its not a good idea to shave down the case.


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

gottdi said:


> Word is out to Jim. Will report the response.


 
Man you would make me a Happy Man!! At least this is a Good start 

The utlimate would be to see this beastin action on a couple of good you tube videos..


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

> To answer your question, the courser the wind the higher the RPM at X voltage but the lower the voltage limit. I have no idea as to what that voltage limit will be. As for advancement always rotate the brushes opposite the motors intended rotation.


Hope this helps. It is after all an industrial motor used for grunt work. Low volts and high amps would move a house. With good gearing could move a vehicle pretty darn good too. Think more on the lines of a diesel engine. Being able to run a pretty decent clip rpm wise you should be able to do pretty good I think at 120 volts and 1000 amps. Don't know if 120 volts would be too much but you will need to advance the brushes for sure.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Georgia Tech said:


> Man you would make me a Happy Man!! At least this is a Good start
> 
> The utlimate would be to see this beastin action on a couple of good you tube videos..


How are you planning to use the Mustang? If you're not planning to drag race competitively, you don't have to push the thing to its limits. You can design around the motor's characteristics and limitations and just enjoy. There are sooo many factors that come into play with these things that how questions are phrased means a lot. If you ask Jim how much performance potential there is in the motor, you're likely to get a different response than if you asked how the motor can best be used for the specific application. I made the mistake of asking him the wrong questions, and then taking too much of his time to get the real answers I was looking for. Inspite of being extremely busy, he was very patient and cool about helping me. Great guy.

What I'm saying is if you just want to cruise to the local weekend hot rod events, and light the tires up once in a while, the question should be phrased to Jim about how to do that with the motor you have. He will then direct his attention to what needs to be done to the motor to reach your goals. He's very good at that - setting up a particular motor for its intended purpose.

If, however, you want to race he will inform you of the advantage and limitations of the motor for that purpose. The answer to that question may not necessarily help the person in the first situation.

If that motor can move an 8000lb forklift, with a 6000lb load, it can push your Mustang around quite easily. It's just a matter of how fast you want it to go, and what setup you need to get there with it. If it's limited to 2500-3000 rpm (because of the low bar count, for example) you would likely need a transmission or one heckuva controller and battery pack to pull with really low (numerical) gearing (for top speed). With either setup it should probably be able to roast a set of tires right down to the rim.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I still think Major's input on this would be good. Jim is an awesome builder, and very knowledgeable, but motor design is Major's forte. I'm of the same opinion as gottdi though, and think as long as you design around the low rpm torque characteristics you'll be fine with it in a street car. Should feel nice too - like having a mountain motor's bottom-end torque. Just don't let 'em find out you don't have its top end!


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> What I'm saying is if you just want to cruise to the local weekend hot rod events, and light the tires up once in a while, the question should be phrased to Jim about how to do that with the motor you have. He will then direct his attention to what needs to be done to the motor to reach your goals. He's very good at that - setting up a particular motor for its intended purpose.


Yes, this is what I want to do with the motor...144 Pack voltage about 3600 RPM limmit, 1500 amp controller. 4 speed toploader tranny possible a Ford 9 inch 3.00 rearend.


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> I still think Major's input on this would be good. Jim is an awesome builder, and very knowledgeable, but motor design is Major's forte. I'm of the same opinion as gottdi though, and think as long as you design around the low rpm torque characteristics you'll be fine with it in a street car. Should feel nice too - like having a mountain motor's bottom-end torque. Just don't let 'em find out you don't have its top end!


 I think Major's input is awsome too! I value his very heavily!! Heavy like this motor!! LOL


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Georgia Tech said:


> Yes, this is what I want to do with the motor...144 Pack voltage about 3600 RPM limmit, 1500 amp controller. 4 speed toploader tranny possible a Ford 9 inch 3.00 rearend.


I don't see any insurmountable obstacles. Your goals are reasonable, and your approach is logical. The only issue you may run into is the voltage. Then again, it might not be an issue with enough advance. You have a transmission for reverse, so running a good bit of advance shouldn't be a problem. If 144v is too much you can back it down accordingly in the controller, and have enough headroom for sag when playing.

Speaking of playing, you might want to make sure that toploader and 9-inch are up to snuff because, with 1500 amps through a 13" motor, they are probably going to experience more torque than they were designed for, and a kind of (instant/relentless) torque that wasn't considered.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Georgia Tech said:


> Yes, this is what I want to do with the motor...144 Pack voltage about 3600 RPM limmit, 1500 amp controller. 4 speed toploader tranny possible a Ford 9 inch 3.00 rearend.



I don't know your tire size... and I didn't do any calcs...but isn't a 3600 rpm with a rear end ration of 3 gonna give you a top speed of like..... I dunno, 65mph or something? assuming most trannys have a final drive ratio of 1:1.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

With 1:1 (high gear in transmission), and assuming a 26" tall tire (26 x 3.1416 / 12 = 6.8086):

3600(rpm) x 60(1 hr) / 3(final drive ratio) x 6.8086 (feet traveled in one turn of the tire) / 5280 (one mile) = approx 93mph.

A 28" tall tire would put you at about 100mph.


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> I don't know your tire size... and I didn't do any calcs...but isn't a 3600 rpm with a rear end ration of 3 gonna give you a top speed of like..... I dunno, 65mph or something? assuming most trannys have a final drive ratio of 1:1.


Well the 3.00 is just a guess I am way away from choosing that at this point. 

If this motor can handel 144 volts I am good.


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## EVfun (Mar 14, 2010)

toddshotrods said:


> With 1:1 (high gear in transmission), and assuming a 26" tall tire (26 x 3.1416 / 12 = 6.8086):
> 
> 3600(rpm) x 60(1 hr) / 3(final drive ratio) x 6.8086 (feet traveled in one turn of the tire) / 5280 (one mile) = approx 93mph.
> 
> A 28" tall tire would put you at about 100mph.


I use a simplified version of that. Motor rpm divided by the gear ratios between it and the rear axles (in this case 3:1 in 4th) times tire height in inches (26) divided by 336 (a big number that takes into account pi, inches to feet, and minutes to hour) equals 92.86 mph. I offer it up only as an easy shortcut.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

toddshotrods said:


> With 1:1 (high gear in transmission), and assuming a 26" tall tire (26 x 3.1416 / 12 = 6.8086):
> 
> 3600(rpm) x 60(1 hr) / 3(final drive ratio) x 6.8086 (feet traveled in one turn of the tire) / 5280 (one mile) = approx 93mph.
> 
> A 28" tall tire would put you at about 100mph.


Ya, looks right. I just remembered doing some calcs for mine with 4500 rpm and thought those speeds looked high. Then again, my diff is 3.55.


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## DIYguy (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Georgia...

What is the length of the pole shoes? Are they exactly the same length as the armature coil face? What is the thickness of the yoke?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Doesn't Berube run over 300 volts AT THE MOTOR on his 13"? Something about the larger distance between brushes making it less likely to zorch?


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## Georgia Tech (Dec 5, 2008)

DIYguy said:


> Hey Georgia...
> 
> What is the length of the pole shoes? Are they exactly the same length as the armature coil face? What is the thickness of the yoke?


 
The pole shoes are Exactly the sam length as the armature The armature diameter is about the same as a 7 inch motor!!!!


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