# [EVDL] What's Most Important?



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Safety first, then reliability.



> EVPower wrote:
> >
> > Hi Listees,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVPower <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi Listees,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

--------------------------------------------------
From: "EVPower" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] What's Most Important?

> What's the single most important thing "to you" that you believe will have
> the most positive effect on and advance EV technology into the future?

I certainly can't disagree with either or the previous responses. However, I 
believe the main thing is visibility, basically just making it so people 
actually realize EVs are an option.

The hybrids makes a great example. The first generation Prius looked a lot 
like other cars, and while it sold well enough, it didn't sell at the 
critical numbers. When Toyota changes the styling to the iconic Prius shape, 
sales boomed. Honda's hybrids (barring the Insight) don't sell nearly as 
well, and the hybrid Accord was even cancelled. Same at Ford, the 
introduction of the hybrid vehicles has been in standard design, and sales 
have flopped.

The same applies in EVs. Right now we are converting vehicles, and very 
often the EV looks just like the ICE, everyone assumes tehre's no real 
difference. Even the Tesla just looks like a Lotus Elise, unless you 
actually know what the Elise looks like. Currently the closest thing to an 
iconic EV is the Tango, and people don't trust that design. The Dodge 
Circuit concept was a step in the right direction, even though it was just a 
conversion of a Lotus Europa, but the project was cancelled.

Long live Fisker. Henrik has the right idea; a beautiful design, electric 
driven, sure its just a series hybrid, but most people should be able to 
drive electric only most of the time, and the design its by Henrik Fisker 
nothing more needs to be said.

After that, availability needs to come next. Sure the Fisker is gorgeous, 
has a chance at being an icon, but its also 3 times the cost of the average 
new car. New production technologies are needed to get the price down and 
production quantity up.

Once these are in place confidence will rise, and sales along with them.
Joe 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

So basically,

Safety
Reliability
Infrastructure
Awareness

Anything else? I can think of something VERY important that hasn't been
mentioned yet that seems rather obvious.

Regards,
Eric
-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1835734.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> EVPower wrote:
> 
> >
> > So basically,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The same thing that's always been needed, better cheaper batteries. That's
it, and we are getting them, a little bit better and cheaper all the time.




> EVPower wrote:
> >
> > So basically,
> >
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Eric, If I can answer this question instead... "What do I believe 
will have the most positive effect on and advance EV technology into 
the future?" ... the answer is "A very high oil price." But then, I 
am a bit cynical.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



> EVPower wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi Listees,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow! The list is starting to grow...

Safety
Reliability - (This goes to increased range below)
Infrastructure
Awareness
Visibility
Affordability
Availability
Advanced Battery Technology
Increased Range

Only one person has mentioned money. Not sale price, but money to build EVs.
Everyone realizes there is a need for it so I guess it's one of those
obvious things we overlook.

Regards,
Eric


-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1836326.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I look at it a bit different so I wasn't gonna respond.

Biggest thing for me is better air. I live in the san Joaquin valley!
The second is less of those sunny weeks and rainy weekends, we create
artificial high pressure zones that hold of weather and then we let it
all in on the weekend. 

We will still need petroleum in the near future. Electric cars should
reduce the overall cost of plastics and goods as more will be avail
longer for making plastics and fueling trucks .

We will be able to afford gas for many more years where it works best if
we stop wasting it for the short daily miles.


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Eric wrote:
> > What's the single most important thing "to you" that you believe will have
> > the most positive effect on and advance EV technology into the future?
> 
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The same warranty as provided with an ICE, plus local, reputable maintenance 
facilities to support it.

Gail

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVPower" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What's Most Important?


>
> Wow! The list is starting to grow...
>
> Safety
> Reliability - (This goes to increased range below)
> Infrastructure
> Awareness
> Visibility
> Affordability
> Availability
> Advanced Battery Technology
> Increased Range
>
> Only one person has mentioned money. Not sale price, but money to build 
> EVs.
> Everyone realizes there is a need for it so I guess it's one of those
> obvious things we overlook.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1836326.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The City of San Antonio had an EV workshop last fall and had about 40 
people of various backgrounds and professions split into three groups to 
talk about charging, fleet use and city participation and all three 
groups had education/awareness listed at or near the top for what's most 
important.

Gary Krysztopik
ZWheelz, LLC - www.ZWheelz.com
Alamo City Electric Auto Association - www.aceaa.org
blog - http://voices.mysanantonio.com/drive_electric_san_antonio/ 
San Antonio, TX





> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Eric wrote:
> >
> >> What's the single most important thing "to you" that you believe will have
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

All the above are definitely important in any car, but the single most thing
holding the EV back is cost, followed closely by mileage. And both of these
are generally due to the cost of the battery packs. Don't expect the masses
to jump into EVs until this is sorted.

An EV that can do 300 miles per charge and costs less than $20K USD is what
is needed - without that, nothing else really matters 

Leslie




P.S. I just wanted to clarify that I am not saying I need 300 miles and a
total cost under $20K USD, but rather joe public always tends to ook at
those things and if it can't do 300 miles per per charge and it isn't cheap,
then joe public will not be interested.










> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > The City of San Antonio had an EV workshop last fall and had about 40
> > people of various backgrounds and professions split into three groups to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I basically agree with you but I'm not sure 300 miles is necessary. With a
low enough purchase price and the obviously lower operating costs of an EV I
think 150-200 miles will be the entry point for many people, especially when
we see fuel prices climbing again.


WRX STI wrote:
> 
> All the above are definitely important in any car, but the single most
> thing
> holding the EV back is cost, followed closely by mileage. And both of
> these
> are generally due to the cost of the battery packs. Don't expect the
> masses
> to jump into EVs until this is sorted.
> 
> An EV that can do 300 miles per charge and costs less than $20K USD is
> what
> is needed - without that, nothing else really matters 
> 
> Leslie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I just wanted to clarify that I am not saying I need 300 miles and a
> total cost under $20K USD, but rather joe public always tends to ook at
> those things and if it can't do 300 miles per per charge and it isn't
> cheap,
> then joe public will not be interested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>


> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> The City of San Antonio had an EV workshop last fall and had about 40
> >> people of various backgrounds and professions split into three groups to
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Leslie,

Why is joe public asking for 300 miles while
many of them never do that in a week? 
Exactly, the *misinformation* from oil and other
interests have caused an "education" about EVs that
it is worthless unless it can do 300 miles.

So, I completely agree with Lee and others that
without healthy and truthful education
(sure the EV is not for everybody, only about
95% of the people are able to use it on daily basis)
these myths about EVs will continue to be in the
way of acceptance of perfectly appropriate performance
of EVs for 95% of joe public, as most of us here already know.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of WRX STI
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:44 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What's Most Important?

All the above are definitely important in any car, but the single most
thing holding the EV back is cost, followed closely by mileage. And both
of these are generally due to the cost of the battery packs. Don't
expect the masses to jump into EVs until this is sorted.

An EV that can do 300 miles per charge and costs less than $20K USD is
what is needed - without that, nothing else really matters 

Leslie




P.S. I just wanted to clarify that I am not saying I need 300 miles and
a total cost under $20K USD, but rather joe public always tends to ook
at those things and if it can't do 300 miles per per charge and it isn't
cheap, then joe public will not be interested.










> gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > The City of San Antonio had an EV workshop last fall and had about 40
> > people of various backgrounds and professions split into three groups
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > Why is joe public asking for 300 miles while
> > many of them never do that in a week?
> > Exactly, the *misinformation* from oil and other
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Talking specifically about visibility of a vehicle with intent towards
public awareness:

Here in Tucson there is Bookmans, (used book store among many other things)
who had their chargers installed
and helped the cross-country Tesla guys, that was pretty visible... but;

I work for a company that does large format graphics/wraps. I am dying to
wrap a home built EV, so if anybody on list from Tucson, (TEVA2 guys) or
near Tucson wants to talk to me about graphics (I understand personal
preference, many people don't want to advertise) I will fight to get you a
good price and do an outstanding job.

Wrapping a large portion of the side of a car will surely get you noticed
and the options are pretty much limitless.

I'm sure there are people out there who have made their EV's look different
and noticeable, and I'd love to help somebody out who wants to do the same.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100412/2e651aca/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

That reminds me, I see a huge truck that drives through town regularly with
a partial wrap on the side promoting Ethanol (its a Chevy/GMC)
I'm sure it was paid for by a dealership, and/or an ethanol selling station.
(but its definitely a private vehicle)

Hows that for an awareness campaign, I'm talking about it. I usually laugh
and shake my head when it drives by.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100412/f4fa99cf/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Dave Hymers wrote:
> 
> > Wrapping a large portion of the side of a car will surely get
> > you noticed and the options are pretty much limitless.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

We all know that people buy the status quo, but if home brew ev's are more
visible they will start to demand that automakers have EVs. Chicken and the
egg again ....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100412/0c76da47/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

With all due respect to Lee and Cor, I disagree... Please hear me out without
getting upset at me. 

The "education" of the public is very important when considering promoting
EVs and dispelling the misinformation out there. I completely agree with you
that we should continue the education campaign and to build more EVs. This
is also why I've been quietly creating an organization for the advancement
of EV technology. More on that later.

But... You can scream until you're blue in the face about the facts by
creating campaigns that educate the public about how far they "actually"
drive in a week, or that they "don't really need" a 300+ mile EV.

What EV builders and promoters are failing to realize is that it's not about
facts. Sorry...

It's about what people want. Basically we're trying to "change public
opinion" by promoting a fact campaign that will educate the public about how
many miles they drive in a week.

Though this is still needed MOST consumers don't care. They want and believe
they need a 300+ mile EV. Trying to change their mind and convince them to
"want" something else is like paddling a row boat up a waterfall. The
misinformation campaigns are not actually the problem either. That damage
has been done, and many EV promoters and associations are doing a great job
of fixing that damage.

The biggest issue here is not public opinion either. Yes we'll change public
opinion eventually through continued education, and we'll convince a few
million people that they really don't need a 300+ mile range EV by promoting
the "less is more" campaigns that people really only drive 60 miles a day.
But, in the end, the vast majority of the population of the consumer world
still want longer range vehicles.

Let's look at this scenario. Let's say we're successful at convincing 10
Million people to purchase 100 mile range EVs. There are still 250+ million
drivers out there driving ICE cars.

I don't know about your opinion on this part, but I believe this industry is
ripe for a 300+ mile EV and the company who creates it successfully could
very well be the leader in the pack.

The single largest and most important thing in my opinion is reliability.
Even EV'ers who own 100 mile EVs will tell you they don't travel far with
their EV. Do they go cross country, travel to Disney World, Yellowstone, Mt
Rushmore, Washington D.C., or the Grand Canyon in their EV? No... They have
an ICE car for that. Why? 

Because it's reliable, dependable, economical, and the infrastructure is
already in place.

If we meet "ALL" of those requirements with any EV, that will be the start
of the exponential advancement of EV technology.

If it sounds like I have an agenda... I do. It's the same as yours, more EVs
on the worlds roads, and the phasing out of ICE engines in passenger cars. I
just see a way to do it differently is all.

Think different, give the people what they want instead of convincing them
they don't need it.

Regards,
Eric
-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1837533.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

EVPower said ..
<snip>

Though this is still needed MOST consumers don't care. They want and believe
they need a 300+ mile EV. Trying to change their mind and convince them to
"want" something else is like paddling a row boat up a waterfall. The
misinformation campaigns are not actually the problem either. That damage
has been done, and many EV promoters and associations are doing a great job
of fixing that damage.


</snip>

My turn to disagree. I have noticed a shift in public opinions in this
department.
People want that when they first hear of EV's and then as they learn
that they can get an ev with less range for less money, they weight
their options. Most are now saying that 100 miles is good. The Nissan
Leaf will be a good litmus test on this, aren't they only claiming 100
miles?

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I like the Tesla Model-S formula. Offer three battery options for the
consumer and see what happens 150 mile ($40K), 250 or 350 ($60K)

- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[email protected] =



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of EVPower
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What's Most Important?


With all due respect to Lee and Cor, I disagree... Please hear me out
without
getting upset at me. 

The "education" of the public is very important when considering promoting
EVs and dispelling the misinformation out there. I completely agree with you
that we should continue the education campaign and to build more EVs. This
is also why I've been quietly creating an organization for the advancement
of EV technology. More on that later.

But... You can scream until you're blue in the face about the facts by
creating campaigns that educate the public about how far they "actually"
drive in a week, or that they "don't really need" a 300+ mile EV.

What EV builders and promoters are failing to realize is that it's not about
facts. Sorry...

It's about what people want. Basically we're trying to "change public
opinion" by promoting a fact campaign that will educate the public about how
many miles they drive in a week.

Though this is still needed MOST consumers don't care. They want and believe
they need a 300+ mile EV. Trying to change their mind and convince them to
"want" something else is like paddling a row boat up a waterfall. The
misinformation campaigns are not actually the problem either. That damage
has been done, and many EV promoters and associations are doing a great job
of fixing that damage.

The biggest issue here is not public opinion either. Yes we'll change public
opinion eventually through continued education, and we'll convince a few
million people that they really don't need a 300+ mile range EV by promoting
the "less is more" campaigns that people really only drive 60 miles a day.
But, in the end, the vast majority of the population of the consumer world
still want longer range vehicles.

Let's look at this scenario. Let's say we're successful at convincing 10
Million people to purchase 100 mile range EVs. There are still 250+ million
drivers out there driving ICE cars.

I don't know about your opinion on this part, but I believe this industry is
ripe for a 300+ mile EV and the company who creates it successfully could
very well be the leader in the pack.

The single largest and most important thing in my opinion is reliability.
Even EV'ers who own 100 mile EVs will tell you they don't travel far with
their EV. Do they go cross country, travel to Disney World, Yellowstone, Mt
Rushmore, Washington D.C., or the Grand Canyon in their EV? No... They have
an ICE car for that. Why? =


Because it's reliable, dependable, economical, and the infrastructure is
already in place.

If we meet "ALL" of those requirements with any EV, that will be the start
of the exponential advancement of EV technology.

If it sounds like I have an agenda... I do. It's the same as yours, more EVs
on the worlds roads, and the phasing out of ICE engines in passenger cars. I
just see a way to do it differently is all.

Think different, give the people what they want instead of convincing them
they don't need it.

Regards,
Eric
-- =

View this message in context:
http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1837533.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com =

Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2805 - Release Date: 04/11/10
23:32:00


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Jeff, List,

You said "Most are now saying that 100 miles is good."... Most of who? 

Buyers, not builders, are who determines the market of any product. To
increase marketability, increase the range of the EV, find a price point
below $20K-$25K that allows a healthy profit for the manufacturer and dealer
and you've got a viable product for main stream car buyers.

I believe in 100 mile range EVs. They are very important to the growth of
this fledgling industry.

100 miles is a good start!

Regards,
Eric
-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1837812.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Cor van de Water.

Joe public thinks they need that, and if ppl think they need it, they will
want it. Case in point, everyone who buys a sports car that has a top speed
of 180 mph when the max speed limit in most countries is ~65mph. No one ever
"needs" a car capable of traveling at that speed, but those that buy them
seem to think it is important 

I've asked many many friends and family what they want in an EV and ALL of
them (not some, but ALL of them) quite clearly said they are wouldn't buy
one if it wasn't capable of covering their weeks worth of travel (~300
miles).

Now I know this is an education problem, as they can charge every day, but
Joe Public is VERY VERY used to the miles/tank measure, and unfortunately
when they look at EVs they compare that with miles/charge - which is rarely
the correct way of looking at it.

To explain further - Joe Public is lazy. And fuel tanks got bigger because
Joe Public is lazy. They made them bigger so lazy Joe Public didn't have to
keep filling up every day and now Joe Public is sooo used to only having to
fill up after ~300 miles (or once a week) that it is almost impossible to
explain to 99% of Joe Public that the 300 miles is several days worth of
travel and if you charge the EV every night you can still do the 300 miles
you did before.



Hi Lee Hart,

I am very fond of the saying, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. This is
especially true for Joe Public. You can educate from this point on, but
almost all the Joe Public stuck in their way of living will not change, and
unfortunately they are the Majority of car owners or car purchasers. EV
technology improves as more people purchase EVs and demand increase - but
without making an EV that the majority of Joe Public will buy, then EV
technology will not increase as quickly.



Hi EV Power (Eric)

Whether you meant to or not, thank you for echoing my thoughts on this 
The majority of Joe Public are set in their way, and unfortunately there is
nothing we can do to convince them to change. All we can do is provide them
something that they feel will work for them and they will respond in kind.



To EV manufacturers,

Look at the most popular cars in each country, then provide make an EV that
costs the same, has the same safety features, and can do the similar
distance per charge as the ICE car can do per tank and you will quite
quickly take over the car market in that country.

The problem with my comment above, is manufacturing an EV that can travel
300miles per charge for the same price as the ICE car is all but impossible
for now, a battery pack to suit that is expensive and that blows the final
cost way out. I guess that is why almost all manufacturers are going Hybrid
first, so that they can at least travel the same distance as the ICE from a
more comparable price point.

Anyhoo, these are just my thoughts on the matter, please do not take offense





Regards,
Leslie
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100413/f001c00c/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I think the Volt is on the right track. People who don't travel over
40 miles per day won't use any gas at all. On their next EV they might
decide they don't need an engine.

Personally, towing my EV is getting old.



> WRX STI <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Cor van de Water.
> >
> > Joe public thinks they need that, and if ppl think they need it, they will
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Joe Public may be a stick in the mud; he won't change (unless forced 
into it, kicking and screaming).

But he has kids; and *they* will change!  Tell them that you can 
"fill 'er up" in your garage for $1 (actually, for free since Joe pays 
the electric bill), and you suddenly get their attention!

-- 
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377	| There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net	| That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Totally agree Lee, and that is pretty much what is happening. But that was
not the original question posted by Eric (EV Power).

The original post was in regards to the single most thing require in
advancing EV technology, and since the "kids" are the minority when it comes
to new car purchases, their purchases of EVs would not have as much impact
as is possible if an EV was manufactured to suit the majority.

Leslie







> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Joe Public may be a stick in the mud; he won't change (unless forced
> > into it, kicking and screaming).
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

On Mon, storm connors wrote:
> I think the Volt is on the right track. People who don't travel over
> 40 miles per day won't use any gas at all.

I think most people will buy the Volt for the wrong reason and then
use it in the wrong way. A lot of people will buy it because it's a
Chevy, or there's a lot of buzz about it, or it's supposed to save
them money. And then these same people will plug it in once or twice
and then just keep filling the gas tank and not bother with the
inconvenience of plugging it in. You may even have a backlash if the
gasoline mode performance is not up to snuff.

Someone who charges every night will be the exception, not the rule.
That is, until the price of gasoline goes through the roof again. And
it will. Then there will be an increase in the number of Volt owners
charging up at night, only because it's hitting them in the wallet.

But for those who are dedicated to charging, don't forget the Stabil!

DAC

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:27 PM, storm connors <[email protected]> wr=
ote:
> I think the Volt is on the right track. People who don't travel over
> 40 miles per day won't use any gas at all. On their next EV they might
> decide they don't need an engine.
>
> Personally, towing my EV is getting old.
>
>


> WRX STI <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Hi Cor van de Water.
> >>
> >> Joe public thinks they need that, and if ppl think they need it, they wi=
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>
> Hi Jeff, List,
>
> You said "Most are now saying that 100 miles is good."... Most of who? 
> 

Ah. I should be clear on that.
The people who notice my EV and the people that attend Earthday and
such that I talk to.

My favorite is I have been asked to give jumpstarts more than once. I
put the hood and say "pick one", it always is a good conversation starter.

I know it is easy to say that is not most people, but that is my point.
the serious people who turn off the ad processor and actually are using
their brains, their attitude has changed. There are still those people
that didn'e finish highschool physics that ask about generators on the
wheel but a lot less. THere used to be unanimous expectatons of exactly
replacing the ICE capability for capability, but that seems to have gone
away. I suspect EV's in Main stream TV have helped. (Tesla in Chuck the
other night, commercials, blogs, news, etc)

So this is the subsect of the populus who are actually looking, The rest
haven't given it a thought yet. ;-)
> Buyers, not builders, are who determines the market of any product. To
> increase marketability, increase the range of the EV, find a price point
> below $20K-$25K that allows a healthy profit for the manufacturer and dealer
> and you've got a viable product for main stream car buyers.
>
> I believe in 100 mile range EVs. They are very important to the growth of
> this fledgling industry.
>
> 100 miles is a good start!
>
> Regards,
> Eric

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

The advancement of electric current storage both in large capacity and less
weight.
-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1838713.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi List,

In order of importance:

Safety
Reliability - (This goes to increased range below)
Infrastructure
Education
Awareness
Visibility
Affordability
Availability
Advanced Battery Technology
Increased Range
Price?

Still only a couple people have mentioned funding... Where is that on this
list?

TO: Dave
I echo your concern about the Chevy Volt, that people may expect too much,
(like 300+ miles) be disappointed and it may do more damage than good to the
EV industry. 

In spite of that risk I think it's a step forward and a risk worth taking.

To: Leslie
I think that "Joe Public" really should be happy to get a 100+ mile EV.
Changing their minds is not the way to approach the problem because it's not
offering a solution. Provide a solution in a longer range vehicle and the
public will buy it.

I agree that the minority "kids" will not have a huge effect on EVs for some
tome to come when they become car buyers themselves. I would agree with Lee
when he says that they will change, but only once they grow up. 5-10 years
out. This is good, and I see the point, but what about in the meantime? 5
years is a long time in industry. Do you want to wait that long? I don't...


To: Lee
Re your comment "As long as Joe Public believes that EVs must go 300
miles/charge, banks
and venture capitalists won't provide money for EV startups that can't
deliver (or at least promise to deliver) it. No money means no startups,
except tiny shoestring operations...."

I believe lack of funding is a HUGE issue, if not the biggest issue that
stifles the advancement of EV technology.

Let me ask you something. What would you consider a good motivation to
provide funding for, and where would the money come from?

Regards,
Eric
-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1839207.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

>>>>Let me ask you something. What would you consider a good motivation to
provide funding for, and where would the money come from?<<<<

In Sweden they are ahead of schedule to be oil independent by 2020. All
over Europe they are being proactive to get off of oil. The formula is
simple but impossible. Gasoline and oils in general need to cost 8 to 10
dollars a gallon as it does there.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Eric,
I am teaching a workshop about building an electric car in Alaska. I am not
an EV owner (yet), but I am promoting in along with my renewable energy
advocacy campaign. Do you or anyone have a basic PowerPoint presentation
already made up to educate the curious about EV?
Thanks

-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1839298.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Phil, Only good free presentation available I have found is the one from
"Jenny Isaacs, She has the "Green Jobs Academy" and a Good curriculum for
introducing High School students to the technology of the EV. Check out her
Web site at: BucksCountyRenewables.com And because her work is
"Government Funded" (State of Pennsylvania.) The downloadable curriculum is
"FREE" ... If you have a "Fat" Budget, contact me and I will be happy to
help you spend it. LOL -))
-- 
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
EV service mechs need training!
We want them to REALLY UNDERSTAND: EV Systems, Operation and Technology.*
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


> Salmonhead eATV <[email protected]>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Eric,
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] What's most important?*

A friend of my that is 85 years old and has a stable of vehicles that go way 
back, I ask him what is the most important thing about your vehicles? He 
said the most important is when you turn the ignition key, that it starts.

He said nothing else matters. Availability, repair parts and ease of 
maintenance is only second to that.

What do you feel when you turn the ignition key on your EV and nothing 
happens. The first action is to get it going again.

Roland 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: [EVDL] What's most important?*



> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > A friend of my that is 85 years old and has a stable of vehicles that go way
> > back, I ask him what is the most important thing about your vehicles? He
> > said the most important is when you turn the ignition key, that it starts.
> ...


----------



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Dennis and others. I've gathered enough info for a 1 day
presentation. There is some great info out there! 

Is there somewhere on this web site that I can upload my PowerPoint
Presentation so that others can use it?

If not, I can put it on my web site and post a link next week.

-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/What-s-Most-Important-tp1835539p1934457.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


----------

