# curtis 1239 error



## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

AC-51/1239 controller powered by 45 Calb SE's with Orion BMS.

We had a heavy rain storm in which I was driving and car started to go into crawl mode. I parked it for several hours and then got back to it and it crawled for a bit and then started to have enough power to drive 20 miles home.
The next day hoping things dried out, the car will just crawl. i have a brake pressure transducer that I found out upon testing was reading 2.2 -3.3 volts so I programmed the controller for no brake input. I also turned BMS off.

Now the car works but makes a strange whirring noise and has reduced power. It feels strained. guessing 70% power.
I have been corresponding with Bill at HPEVS. he told me to read the blinking leds off the controller itself. the result I got was 67 which he said does not exist.
Anybody go through anything like this?
-Thanks for any info
-Mike


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## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

update (In case anybody cares)
I have sent in the controller to HPEVS Bill checked it out and loaded 15.30 version of software. Upon its return it will not precharge. it displays a Code 14. When I enter diagnose mode it will close the contactor and I can drive the car. I can even shut off (exit diagnose mode) and restart the car and drive it normally. If I wait too long it will code 14 again. I am assuming diagnose mode skips pre-charging the contactor circuit. And the controller has a enough in its capacitors to restart without precharge.
Is this true? Anybody got any ideas? 

I have 13 volts at the precharge contactor coil but appears to be unable to close the precharge contacts.
I tested the precharge contactor by replacing with a duplicate and it acts exactly the same, I see 13 volts but no contactor closing. It seems like controller is sending 13 volts but not enough amperage to close precharge contactor. This seems really weird. The other thing I noticed when i measured controller precharge output to precharge contactor coil is that the polarity was reversed wire marked coil return was + and wire marked precharge acted like negative. The coil doesn't care (polarity agnostic) but I thought it worth mentioning as it might give a clue as to what is going on.
I also checked continuity and resistance on precharge wire and coil return wire to the 35 pin connector and all good there.
Hope somebody can weigh in. I am reporting all this to Bill at HPEVS but I believe he is on vacay
Thanks


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

You need a hand held programmer so you can "read" the raw inputs and make sure all components are communicating. Like throttle output 1 will tell you that your pot is giving a full command to the controller. 

Do basic checks first. Write them all down as not to repeat yourself.

Things will start adding up.

Miz


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Also, where'd you buy the motor/controller from? I'd suggest reaching out to them as well.

What contactor do you have? What is the coil voltage? Its PWM so using a voltmeter doesn't tell you much about the voltage at the coil.

Make sure there isn't a pre-charge resistor, the Curtis does that on its own through the KSI wire prior to engaging the contactor. Make sure KSI gets connected to B+ of the battery. It should be full pack voltage on KSI.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Hey Travis, miz,

This isn't the first time zapguy has posted contactor problems. Check his post history. I get the impression that there is a basic misunderstanding on his part. I'd like to help but we never get the complete picture; like parameter settings, component ratings, wiring, etc. If he'd do that, we could likely pinpoint the problem. 

major


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## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

First of all thank you for your responses. I am definitely not the smartest when it comes to electronics, but I am really good at following instructions and have managed to build and run an EV in its various forms for 40,000 miles, including installation of Orion BMS and switching from curtis 1231 to Zilla 1K to the current AC-51 with 1239 controller. I have a year and half and 10,000+ miles on the current AC system, with just the failed contactor. before and since the contactor replacement the car has run flawlessly up till the rainstorm. That said I will take any help I can get. I believe you guys that I may have something wrong with my set-up. I have reached out to my dealer at Thunderstruck who is giving me suggestions as well as Bill at HPEVS. They have been great. 
A while back I replaced the Tyco contactor with the Gigavac GV 200PA contactor directly from and recommended by Bill/HPEVS. It comes with a precharge relay and 50 ohm resistor and those components are specified in the schematic for 1239 installs from 5.13 software up.
KSI in that schematic runs to original car wiring for 12 volts (key start) 
I have never heard of KSI getting full pack voltage. that is a new one on me.
component list:
AC-51/1239 controller
45) Calb CA (Gray) Cells 
Orion BMS
hall effect throttle type 1
brake pressure transducer for regen MSP 3501 P2-ND
Gigavac GV 200PA for positive pack contactor with supplied 50 ohm resistor and relay.
LEV 200 for Orion controlled Negative pack contactor

What kind of Rating info are you looking for? 
the wiring was done exactly to supplied schematic.
Thanks again for any help or ideas.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks zapguy, that post helps me a lot. Unfortunately nothing jumps out at me as a reason for your woes. But let it sink in. Maybe another member will chime in.

I was able to locate a 1239 (e) spec sheet and wiring diagram. It appears that Curtis has gone to an external precharge circuit and 12V coils on contactors, and also 12V KSI. This is a significant deviation from the standard 1234, 1236, 1238, 1244, etc models. 

The dealer people you're working with are good. I hope they get you rolling again soon. 

Regards,

major


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Yes, that's all news to me too- I have a 1238 and my contactor is 48VDC coil and there is no external precharge resistor or separate precharge contactor- I'm not sure how they're precharging the caps but it's internal to the controller. I always watch the Spyglass and wait until I get the green LEDs before I step on the accelerator- presume the red blinking LEDs you get immediately upon start-up on the Spyglass are warning you that it's precharging.


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## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

I solved it

I don't know why I nor anyone else that I asked got this. Apparently I hadn't set the controller to idle on and torque at 0, a requirement if you use a start button.
You need to use a start button when using an Orion BMS that takes a few moments to check in and close the negative contactor. I don't know why it gave a code 14 instead of a 39 or 17 no voltage code or something. That was enough to throw all of us off. Car works great with new software. 
I hope I can help somebody else by posting this. It was a pretty easy solve, I felt pretty dumb for missing it but very happy when it worked.



But what caused the initial problem, has to do with the brake transducer input. When I check the output of the transducer it looks exactly right 

.5 volts no brake and 4.8 volts at full brake. 4.9 volts on 5v input to transducer.

When I go to try and set the deadband the spyglass reads 48.51 volts (that's right 48 volts!) and when setting max brake reading is .4 volts. I have tried to set this numerous times and neither value changes. Transducer seems to be working correctly. when brake input is turned on car barely goes. Brake input set to 0 car is fine.
Anyone?
I have another question is there a guide to all the curtis settings like acceleration rate, etc.? Does ARE> setting low number represent a quicker acceleration and a high number represent slower acceleration? I think mine is set at .3 so .2 would be quicker. It seems like HPEVS should come up with a bit better programming instructions that tell what a settings desired effect on controller performance might be.


-Mike


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## mizlplix (May 1, 2011)

Congrats for finding your probs.

Answer to brake problem: (Maybe an answer) 

There is a dead band setting. I set it just above my brake signal at rest. 
Say in your case, set the dead band to .6 vdc and it ignores under that.

There is a "brake full" reading too. set it to 4.8 vdc.

On the curtis instruments web site they have a basic manual.
It has what you need and what I use.

http://curtisinstruments.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=50208_1239E_RevC3.pdf

Miz


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

You need the HPEVS manual, since ARE etc. are parameters set in HPEVS's software. Contact them for the correct download for your version of their software. ARE is the acceleration for economy mode if you have an economy switch installed. The economy switch allows you to have two different sets of acceleration, peak current and brake current settings, ie for wet weather or hypermiling or when a friend or valet drives the car. The E parameters have no effect as long as the economy switch is not installed.


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## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks for your responses, but I have already tried that.
I am following instructions in programming document found on HPEVS website: Standard Operating Procedures 
Instructions for Program and Diagnose Modes Primary and Secondary Controllers 


Generic Software 


Version 5.14 and Higher 


Secondary Software 



When following those instructions the above stated settings is what results. 48 volt deadband which is completely wrong (should be .3 volt or so) and .4 volts for brake max which is also very wrong. (should be at or near 5 volts)

does a handheld curtis programmer allow you to set these?
Is it back to curtis with this controller for the 4th time?
curtis link is a pdf brochure on the controller and I cannot find any programming info on curtis website just data sheets.


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

The handheld programmer, which I do NOT have, allows you to set all the parameters.

That 48 V input for the brake device sounds like a bug in the software.

I have a buggy version of the HPEVS software on my 1238 Curtis controller, which does not allow me to set the brake input span using the Spyglass and menu button. It's a known issue- HPEVS helped me figure it out (I echo your sentiments- they are GREAT guys and are fabulous to work with, and work very hard to support the product they sell). Because of the bug, I have to accept the default deadband (zero) and span settings which are something like 0.3 and 4V. My alternatives are to try to update the software myself (no way!), send the controller back to HPEVS or my reseller (CanEV) to update the software (too much bother and cost given the distances involved), borrow a programmer, or try to use a laptop as an illicit programmer (others have managed to do this). Since the only downside I've found to living with the default values is imperfect operation of the brake light relay, I've decided to just live with it as is- until I run across someone local with the programmer.


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## Clipper (Jan 30, 2011)

Moltenmetal said:


> You need the HPEVS manual, since ARE etc. are parameters set in HPEVS's software. Contact them for the correct download for your version of their software. ARE is the acceleration for economy mode if you have an economy switch installed. The economy switch allows you to have two different sets of acceleration, peak current and brake current settings, ie for wet weather or hypermiling or when a friend or valet drives the car. The E parameters have no effect as long as the economy switch is not installed.


I have a 1238 controller and a 1311-4401 handheld programmer.
I downloaded the 1238 manual from ThunderStruck's website.
I can't figure out how to program a different set of parameters for the economy mode...I don't see anything titled ARE or E-parameters...

Can anyone tell me what to look for on my handheld?
--Thanks..


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## zapyourrideguy (Oct 25, 2012)

I was able to set economy settings from spyglass. I think it was in throttle menu. It might be different for hand-held programmer.
Would you be interested in loaning/renting out your programmer? I would like to see if I could get my regen braking back.


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## Clipper (Jan 30, 2011)

zapyourrideguy said:


> Would you be interested in loaning/renting out your programmer? I would like to see if I could get my regen braking back.


I am actually borrowing it from a fellow in our EV club.

However, I see a guy on EBay renting one for $30/month...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Curtis-Han...ash=item1c5be64bda:g:GloAAOSw~bFWMjva&vxp=mtr


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