# Shipping Used Nissan Leaf Batteries Internationally



## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

In early November 2014 I purchased a used Nissan Leaf battery from Japan for $3300NZD (or $2400USD). I knew I was dealing with class 9 dangerous goods so the shipping from Japan to New Zealand was not likely to be straightforward (I wasn't wrong). I got a quote from a local company who deals with a dangerous goods shipper in Japan and they gave me an estimate for the shipping (port to port) of around $1000. This was actually the point I decided to pull the trigger and purchase the pack. After all that does seem like a good price. 

As it turned out this was only the beginning. I next needed to arrange inland shipping in Japan. I was informed by the shipping company, that the battery could not be shipped on the pallet it was on and I would need to have a special crate made because the battery is dangerous goods. With this crate and a dangerous goods surcharge for inland shipping the inland freight cost was $1300 (for moving the battery 20 miles). So I forked out and had the battery freighted to the port. by this stage three or four weeks had passed, but I did think I finally had it sorted - but I was wrong! After another couple of weeks I got a call from my contact saying they had got the estimate wrong and the dangerous goods component of the shipping was much more than they had anticipated, to the tune of an extra $900. But what choice did I have. I agreed for the shipment to go ahead and they sent me some firm dates. The battery was to be shipped from Tokyo to Hong Kong and then onto New Zealand, due into New Zealand on the 16th of January. 

On about the 4th of January I was contacted to say the battery had been unloaded in Hong Kong as the shipping line was not happy about the documentation. They claimed the battery was missing a test report for compliance to UN38.3 and without the documentation they wouldn't continue the shipment. 

UN38.3 is a set of tests that battery manufacturers must comply with in order to have their batteries transported. There are 8 test catagories under UN38.3

T1 – Altitude Simulation (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries) 
T2 – Thermal Test (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries) 
T3 – Vibration (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries) 
T4 – Shock (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries) 
T5 – External Short Circuit (Primary and Secondary Cells and Batteries) 
T6 – Impact (Primary and Secondary Cells) 
T7 – Overcharge (Secondary Batteries) 
T8 – Forced Discharge (Primary and Secondary Cells) 

Obviously the Nissan Leaf battery complies with this standard, and perhaps more obviously, Nissan is not going to give me the test report. 

The battery is now sitting in Hong Kong. Does anybody have a UN38.3 test report for the Nissan Leaf? or any other ideas for that matter?


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## nimblemotors (Oct 1, 2010)

Sorry to hear of your trouble, hard lesson to learn about shipping extortion.
Did you ask the hong kong people who you can 'hire' to get the paperwork in order? I'm guessing someone's brother will take care of it for you for a 'small' fee.


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Very different from my experience when shipping USA to Europe. I had to remind them in every phone call, that these are batteries, so that would pay at least a bit of attention to the paperwork and shipping.
"So, that's like a big battery on a pallet? Does it leak? No? Then why are you even mentioning this, nobody cares!" 

Edit: At the end they just put in the papers "Spare car parts, contains a battery", or something like that.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

> Did you ask the hong kong people who you can 'hire' to get the paperwork in order?


You're so right about that, if only I knew who to ask?


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## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

Check with http://www.weiss-rohlig.com/


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## Nathan219 (May 18, 2010)

Check with http://www.weiss-rohlig.com/


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

I can get you used condoms cheap.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

I suspect I might have a problem with shipping those too. They would surely be classified as dangerous goods, wouldn't they?


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

ACEVS4US said:


> I suspect I might have a problem with shipping those too. They would surely be classified as dangerous goods, wouldn't they?


You might say that since lithium batteries have brought down several airplanes and killed a lot of pilots.


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Sunking said:


> You might say that since lithium batteries have brought down several airplanes and killed a lot of pilots.


And that's why you should consider using a shipping container on a boat. Takes longer, but without any complications. There are many companies that can arrange that for you.


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

eldis said:


> And that's why you should consider using a shipping container on a boat. Takes longer, but without any complications. There are many companies that can arrange that for you.


I guess the ship's crew has a better chance of rescue than the plane's crew in the case of fire  I am amazed at the casual attitude I see so many take with Lithium battery/cell shipping. They just thrown them in a package unmarked and haul off to the PO, UPS, FedEx, etc. They have no idea if it will transport by plane or not. Just outta sight/outta mind


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Sunking said:


> You might say that since lithium batteries have brought down several airplanes and killed a lot of pilots.


Examples?
Links?

I have not heard of any occasions this has happened


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## Sunking (Aug 10, 2009)

Duncan said:


> Examples?
> Links?
> 
> I have not heard of any occasions this has happened


Pull your head out of the sand. 

Just a quick search and you will find

UPS Airlines Flight 6 was a cargo flight operated by UPS Airlines. On September 3, 2010, a Boeing 747-400 flying the route between Dubai International Airport and Cologne Bonn Airport developed an in-flight fire, with the fumes and subsequent crash resulting in the death of the two crewmembers.[2][3] The aircraft had departed Dubai International earlier, but returned after reporting smoke in the cockpit. It was the first fatal air crash for UPS Airlines.

In all the FFA has recorded 151 fires caused from lithium batteries since March 1991. That is just in the USofA. All you gotta do is look. LINK HERE


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi ACEVS4US,

Did you manage to get your battery home?
How did you do it?


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## Moltenmetal (Mar 20, 2014)

Sunking: correction, that's 158 reports of smoke/fire related to batteries of any kind. The list of 158 contains incidents related to lead acid, sealed lead acid, silver oxide button cells and lithium primary (nonrechargeable disposable) batteries amongst others- but the overwhelming majority are Li-ion cells of some description or another- either loose or in personal electronic devices that get mangled in shipment/handling somehow.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

> Did you manage to get your battery home?
> How did you do it?


Yes, I received my battery a few weeks ago. All the cells seem healthy.

The battery was eventually returned to Japan from Hong Kong and then reshipped by declaring it as a "battery" rather than a "lithium ion battery". Very dodgy I know, but that is how it was done.

If any other NZ folks are thinking of importing one one these my advice to you would be: "Don't touch it with a barge pole". Mine took over nine months to arrive and I spent countless hours conversing with various people.

The only bonus was that I got a 70% discount on the original shipping cost. Don't try it though.

Chris


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

Probably the key to shipping these is don't mention the words "class 9 dangerous goods". Just call it a car battery or something similar.


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Battery shipping is starting to be quite a pain the ass. I'm just moving over 600kg of EV parts to Europe (including two Volt batteries), and I'm burning through the list of my usual shipping companies quite fast. Regulations are changing as well.

The best you can probably do is really not to mention too much what exactly are you shipping. But consider that people handling it for you could get hurt, and you could carry serious implications for trying to smuggle couple hundred kilos of lithium without marking it properly.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

> But consider that people handling it for you could get hurt, and you could carry serious implications for trying to smuggle couple hundred kilos of lithium without marking it properly.


Your right, but as well as possibly getting someone hurt, nobody wants to be liable for damaging/sinking a $200000000 container ship.

If you want to ship a lithium ion battery you will need:

1.) The MSDS; these are not that hard to find; although finding one that is up-to-date can be hard.

2.) A battery test report from the manufacturer; compliant lithium ion batteries should have this as they are required under the IMDG code. For proprietary batteries such as the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Tesla etc etc you will not be able to get such a report (and believe me, I tried) because the manufacturer has no financial gain in giving it to you.

3.) The proper packaging; P903 packing instruction in the IMDG code.

It also becomes even more complicated if a battery is "used", because a carrier (e.g hamburg sud, maersk Line etc) has the right to refuse transportation of the goods regardless of the documentation.

Once again though, my advice would be not to try and move an OEM EV battery over international waters at all. Even if you have all the documentation, which is unobtainium, proceed with extreme caution.


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## Karter2 (Nov 17, 2011)

ACEVS4US said:


> Your right, but as well as possibly getting someone hurt, nobody wants to be liable for damaging/sinking a $200000000 container ship.


 OK, i realize there are major issues currently around shipping Lithium batteries, ..but in reality its all hyped paranoia.
At any one time there must be thousands of leaf/volt/Tesla/BMW Toyota, etc etc packs in ships shuffling around the world.
how many "incidents" do we hear of ?
and the risk must be no more than a tanker full of gasoline or LPG floating through Panama. How about all those millions of cars and trucks with full gas tanks shuffled onto ferrys around the world ?
Eventually there will be some other new "big issue" to distract the nanny state and let folk in the battery world carry on just like any other " not really dangerous" goods shippers. !


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Karter2 said:


> Eventually there will be some other new "big issue" to distract the nanny state and let folk in the battery world carry on just like any other " not really dangerous" goods shippers. !


It's not that easy. If you make a law/procedure that is more strict (like properly marking Lithium shipments, requiring compliance documents), you as a state representative are completely safe. If you try to make a law/rule that simplifies something (relaxes safety), you will be held responsible for problems. So you are rewarded for making things more complicated, but not for simplifying things. Therefore you have no motivation in touching such topics.


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Anyway, as I'm now shipping two Chevy batteries USA -> Europe, I have to confirm that doing it the "correct way" is very difficult and stressful. A lot of paperwork, and as was mentioned before you cannot get the correct Material Safety Data Sheet. Nobody will give it to you. You could try to use some other "similar" sheet, but that would of course be illegal..

Batteries of this size are classified as Hazard class 9. There are additional fees that applies for shipping hazardous goods.

My recommendation - buy the whole crashed car. It will be easier, as it is a car. Everybody understands those. People don't ask questions and don't get nervous about it (which they should, as you cannot possibly judge on the damage to the battery and HV system!). A separated and inspected battery is safer to transport. But much more paperwork.


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## hmincr (Jan 20, 2012)

I helped someone buy a Volt battery a few months ago. He had to track down some info, before the trucking Co. would handle it. A couple months ago, I bought a Volt battery, and I offered a copy to the Trucking Co. and they would not take a copy. Wasn't even interested in seeing it. They just transported the battery half way across the USA. 

I think it's all about who you are dealing with. The Volt batteries have a decal in big letters stuck to them, "OK TO SHIP". One guy told me that's so the car could be shipped. WHO the hell looks under the car to find that sticker ?? 

In the USA, we used R&L shippers. Maybe they can do International ??


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

hmincr said:


> I helped someone buy a Volt battery a few months ago. He had to track down some info, before the trucking Co. would handle it. A couple months ago, I bought a Volt battery, and I offered a copy to the Trucking Co. and they would not take a copy. Wasn't even interested in seeing it. They just transported the battery half way across the USA.
> 
> I think it's all about who you are dealing with. The Volt batteries have a decal in big letters stuck to them, "OK TO SHIP". One guy told me that's so the car could be shipped. WHO the hell looks under the car to find that sticker ??
> 
> In the USA, we used R&L shippers. Maybe they can do International ??


Shipping continental is dead easy. I have no trouble getting companies to ship it anywhere around USA or Europe. The ocean is the tricky part, as it is heavily regulated. Both marine as well as air. It does not depend on the company there.

Yes, that sticker is funny. It doesn't mean anything, does not comply with standards.. No idea why are they even bothering with putting it there.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

Karter2 said:


> OK, i realize there are major issues currently around shipping Lithium batteries, ..but in reality its all hyped paranoia.


Not really, consider it from the point of view of the carrier. Without regulation, anybody is free to ship whatever brand/chemistry/type of Lithium ion battery they like. There would be no segregation of batteries from other types of cargo. Batteries which were defective/poorly constructed/damaged/end of life etc would be free to load with any other types of cargo. Inboard (not top deck) on a container ship there is very little than can be done about a fire several layers down, other than dumping containers overboard to access it. If batteries are packed in a container with explosives (for example), which would be allowed, as you can mix any type of dangerous goods (explosives) with unclassified goods, then a fire is a really expensive problem.

So if regulation is definitely required, then the question becomes what are the requirements to meet the regulation. A safety datasheet seems reasonable, so crew on board a ship know what to do in case of a fire (for example). A UN38.3 test report also seems reasonable. The test report shows the carrier than the battery can handle the types of ambient conditions that one might expect while being transported. Proper packaging is obviously necessary.

I do agree that generally the risks are extremely low. However, there are millions of Lithium ion batteries being moved about all the time. A one in one million chance of a major accident represents a significant risk to the carrier.


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

eldis said:


> My recommendation - buy the whole crashed car.


Yes, electric vehicles are exempt from dangerous classification under the IMDG code. This means you can legally move an electric vehicle as ordinary cargo. Pretty fuzzy logic if you ask me, but it's the truth none the less.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Buy the whole car

That is what I had intended to do!

However I was told that nobody would ship a damaged Hybrid or electric car because of worries about fire after the damage
Was it a crashed Volt that burst into flames 6 months later?


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## eldis (Sep 3, 2013)

Yesterday I was passing by a gas station when going home from work. Some guy stopped there really close to one of the pumps with his VW Golf mk2. The whole front of the car was on fire - a lot of heat, a lot of black smoke, and I had to pass real close next to it with my bike. All I could think of was - will it explode or will it not? It did not fortunately  Firefighters arrived just as I was leaving. Bit of an off-topic, but seeing such thing up close makes you wonder how much water is needed to put out such fire. No wonder shipping companies would prefer not transporting our energy dense batteries.


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## piotrsko (Dec 9, 2007)

Duncan said:


> Buy the whole car
> 
> That is what I had intended to do!
> 
> ...



Only if they have a punctured battery pack or are on their roof leaking coolant for a couple of days.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

piotrsko said:


> Only if they have a punctured battery pack or are on their roof leaking coolant for a couple of days.


You know that, and I know that,
But the shipping companies don't!

Eldis
Petrol has 9Kwhrs/liter - so a Leak battery pack has the same energy as 3 liters of petrol
How big is a Golf fuel tank? - 50liters??

In fact the lube oil in the burning Golf you saw would have more energy than a complete Leaf pack


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

We've shipped battery's from both the US and Europe to the UK and it's more difficult now that they are formally classified as "dangerous goods". Within the EU we've stopped shipping by air and only ship using an approved courier who is used to handling dangerous goods. We also only buy battery's from suppliers who are prepared to provide both a Material Safety Data Sheet ("MSDS") and Multimodal Dangerous Goods Form ("MDGF") for review prior to shipment.

Here is the MSDS for CALB CA180 cells;

http://www.evsource.com/datasheets/CALB/CA180 MSDS.pdf.pdf

Here is the MSDS for Nissan Modules;

http://www.findmymsds.com/nissan/pdfs/295B9-3NA9A-E.pdf

Here is the MSDS for Nissan Battery;

http://www.findmymsds.com/nissan/pdfs/295B0-3NA9B-E.pdf

Here for reference is a typical MDGF;

https://www.hapag-lloyd.com/downloads/pdf/DG_Declaration_Form_2003.pdf

With the correct paperwork shipping battery's is no more difficult than any other item but it's important that we all take our legal responsibilities seriously.

I would also suggest that anyone buying battery's internationally uses an escrow service to protect their monies and to ensure the supplier remains focused on getting the battery's delivered to you. We've used Transpact many times because it's both cheap and provides independent arbitration for both parties;

https://www.transpact.com/default.htm


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## ACEVS4US (Jul 21, 2011)

Kevin Sharpe said:


> We also only buy battery's from suppliers who are prepared to provide both a Material Safety Data Sheet ("MSDS") and Multimodal Dangerous Goods Form ("MDGF") for review prior to shipment


The Nissan Leaf MSDS you supplied is not up to date. There is a 2015 version which is not readily available to the public. My shipping agent was able to get this but he never gave it to me.

The other requirement is a UN38.3 battery test report. Without this your shipment can be refused.


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

ACEVS4US said:


> The Nissan Leaf MSDS you supplied is not up to date. There is a 2015 version which is not readily available to the public. My shipping agent was able to get this but he never gave it to me.


Like you were using a 2015 MSDS but afaik that version is not in the public domain 



ACEVS4US said:


> The other requirement is a UN38.3 battery test report. Without this your shipment can be refused.


Never been asked for that but anything is possible


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## Kevin Sharpe (Jul 4, 2011)

UN bans lithium batteries as cargo on passenger planes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35643213


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