# 144 volt controllers



## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...er-kelly-24-144v-500a-programmable-10806.html


----------



## Wattmotion (Sep 10, 2008)

Thanks....
I ran across this site that lists all of them and some opinions. 
http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/MotorControllers/DcMotorControllers


----------



## booksix (Aug 26, 2008)

Cool! Great link, thanks for sharing it.


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

I am using a Kelly 14500(original version before the upgrade) and though my system is sitting at 72V soon to be 144VDC, I must say that the Kelly has not heated up in any way. There has been an ease of assembly for wiring (mine has two 'j' plugs (actually muti-pin connectors) that you solder connections to for the controllers 12V power and ground and the potentiometer connections. There are contacts that can be made for alarm, reversing contactor, external LED's... In my simple application, it works fine for me. The unit as a serial interface I have not yet set to, due to the fact I have to haul my desktop out to the garage and interface (because my laptops win95 will not work with the software for programming). I was going to do that today... but of course, it is really crappy weather today, had rain all night!
all in all no overheating, not one sign of shorting, it works fine. 
Be prepared to interface with folks that are polite, but speak in very Chinese accent halting English if you should find yourself having to call the company, and you may find yourself doing so... By the way the controller I got was shipped directly from a CHINESE FACTORY.
My secondary system has an Alltrax 'AXE' that I am looking forward to working with as well... But I was unable to find an AllTrax that works with a 144V system, so I went with the recommendation of EVUSA's people who suggested the Kelly. It was $989 vs. $1300 for a Curtis 1231C,.. just a final note: If I was to do it all over again, I might buy the Curtis 1231C due to the track record of the controller.


----------



## Wattmotion (Sep 10, 2008)

I have read a lot about Kelly units going back to the factory for various problems but it seems they have good support and respond to problems. So I am weighing between potential problems but the features I want or the simple but reliable Curtis unit. The Belktronic package also looks good so I have at least narrowed it down to three units.


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

Wattmotion said:


> I have read a lot about Kelly units going back to the factory for various problems but it seems they have good support and respond to problems. So I am weighing between potential problems but the features I want or the simple but reliable Curtis unit. The Belktronic package also looks good so I have at least narrowed it down to three units.


Belktronic??? You mean as in Belkin???


----------



## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

Have you looked at logisystems controllers. Mine is on order but I have heard good things about them and they too have good customer support I hear.


----------



## CPLTECH (Sep 14, 2007)

*LogiSystems* was my choice after the sudden demise of my Curtis unit. Needless to say, it has been over 5 weeks and counting since the order due to:
1) High gas prices prompting everyone & their brother attempting a conversion
2) Sources for controllers are few (almost as rare as hen’s teeth)
3) Zilla has decided (for health reasons) to stop production soon. (Perhaps an expert in foods & herbs like Dr Richard Schultz ND of California could turn his health around)
4) From a commercial business standpoint, who wants to start one if major auto giants will start car production soon, leaving just a few backyard enthusiasts building conversions, plus the repair/replace business.

Just thinking out loud…


----------



## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Wattmotion said:


> I hear issues about the Curtis and some modification that many do to keep it from blowing up and that the cases are impossible to open.


Steve,

I hear issues about (insert make and model of ice vehicle here) blowing up and/or impossible to work on, yet people keep buying them and have no trouble.

Curtis is one of the longest-lived names in DC motor controls for traction applications. There are hundreds of thousands of Curtis controllers installed in everything from EVs to Golf Carts to Forklifts to Aircraft Service Vehicles to Industrial Trucks to....

They make a solid product with good quality control. One that does not blow up unless you attempt to exceed the design parameters or fail to connect it properly. In typical scenarios, there is no need to open ANY controller, and Curtis will service any controller that has issues (even if it's not under warranty and you have to pay for the repairs).

The only other name I trust in DC PWM controllers is Zilla, and Cafe Electric is ceasing production so that Otmar can get on with other things.

In the thread that is specifically about Kelly controllers, many owners have reported severe issues with older designs, and many owners have reported these flaws are corrected in newer designs.


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

I guess I have a full plate of crow to eat... I am seriously thinking of getting a Curtis 1231C... My Kelly kicked me in the groin by not allowing me access into its guts on the interface. I put a serial interface on the desktop box, it is working fine, I downloaded the controller software from the Kelly site... I have XP Pro, and the program set up fine... I checked the plug-in to the serial 232 interface on the controller... hauled my desktop out to the garage complete with LCD and etc's... and for a couple of hours tried and tried and disassembled and assembled... and NADA... and without being able to regulate the power on the unit my 72VDC system sucks the batteries dry in a heartbeat... And considering I am upgrading to a 144V system as soon as the batteries are delivered... I have decided a Curtis 1231C is looking mighty fine... 'cause I think I would be beyond foolish to order the upgrade of the Kelly... 
So now I will go off into my little corner and humbly munch crow... ($980.00 bucks down the crapper on that one!) The beast still works,.. but range is phtttttt!


----------



## Wattmotion (Sep 10, 2008)

Thanks DJ and Fugdabug, 
I think I am leaning strongly toward a Curtis... although I would love a Zilla, I don't think I can get one until someone else steps in at Cafe.. 
Appreciate all of the great input here.. 
Steve


----------



## Wattmotion (Sep 10, 2008)

Fugdabug,
Read the other thread on 144's ... I think it says it all about Kelly. 
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...er-kelly-24-144v-500a-programmable-10806.html


----------



## Wattmotion (Sep 10, 2008)

fugdabug said:


> Belktronic??? You mean as in Belkin???



No, Belktronix, they offer a package deal , controller, battery charger, and other parts... I have been emailing them about the unit, it looks good. I haven't heard a thing about this one... Here's the link, Has anyone used one of these?

*http://www.belktronix.com*


----------



## Hondacrzy (Mar 15, 2008)

Rob C. is using that system in his Civic. Check the garage.


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

Wattmotion said:


> No, Belktronix, they offer a package deal , controller, battery charger, and other parts... I have been emailing them about the unit, it looks good. I haven't heard a thing about this one... Here's the link, Has anyone used one of these?
> 
> *http://www.belktronix.com*


Innerestin'... found the site. Thanx for the link!


----------



## ww321q (Mar 28, 2008)

fugdabug said:


> and without being able to regulate the power on the unit my 72VDC system sucks the batteries dry in a heartbeat...


You know 6 Optima batteries aint got much to give . Just one string at 72 volts wont get you very far no mater what controller you use . I think 15 miles at 55 mph with only 6 Optima batteries running 72 volts is really good . J.W.


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

ww321q said:


> You know 6 Optima batteries aint got much to give . Just one string at 72 volts wont get you very far no mater what controller you use . I think 15 miles at 55 mph with only 6 Optima batteries running 72 volts is really good . J.W.


Ya! dat is why this will soon be a 144VDC system,.. ordered 24 - 6V US250xc's... 258Ahr... The 72V system I started with was to make sure I could get it built to run, and to work out bugs... which is what it is helping me to do. But it is still more fun than a barrel of monkeys!!! I have a vid of my first run up the driveway... but my wifes SD card reader doesn't match the SD (hc) 4GB card in my camera... so until I get the Aiptek manual out and go through it as to how to download from the camera... I won't be able to post to YouTube yet... I call it the 'Ride of Terror!'... I had the batteries crammed behind the front seats... and I was up against the steering wheel... it was an interesting trip to say the least!


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

fugdabug said:


> I guess I have a full plate of crow to eat... I am seriously thinking of getting a Curtis 1231C... My Kelly kicked me in the groin by not allowing me access into its guts on the interface. I put a serial interface on the desktop box, it is working fine, I downloaded the controller software from the Kelly site... I have XP Pro, and the program set up fine... I checked the plug-in to the serial 232 interface on the controller... hauled my desktop out to the garage complete with LCD and etc's... and for a couple of hours tried and tried and disassembled and assembled... and NADA... and without being able to regulate the power on the unit my 72VDC system sucks the batteries dry in a heartbeat... And considering I am upgrading to a 144V system as soon as the batteries are delivered... I have decided a Curtis 1231C is looking mighty fine... 'cause I think I would be beyond foolish to order the upgrade of the Kelly...
> So now I will go off into my little corner and humbly munch crow... ($980.00 bucks down the crapper on that one!) The beast still works,.. but range is phtttttt!


After talking to Kelly Controller's rep. Steve, I am hoping to have the controller issue resolved... so hold off on the ' down the crapper'... either way it looks like my issue will be resolved! And I am once more in the belief that there are still folks out there willing to give good service to customers... I went hunting the Curtis 1231C this morning... and in the past three days or so, the price went from $1300 to $1500 on one site and from $1500 to $1700 on another!!! I about plotz'd! I mean is it that expensive to build??? That in three days they raise the price over $200.00...??? Or is it demand??? or just greed? Holy Buckets!


----------



## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

fugdabug said:


> I went hunting the Curtis 1231C this morning... and in the past three days or so, the price went from $1300 to $1500 on one site and from $1500 to $1700 on another!!! I about plotz'd! I mean is it that expensive to build??? That in three days they raise the price over $200.00...??? Or is it demand??? or just greed? Holy Buckets!


I had the same adventure this week. For me to buy a Curtis 1321C would be $2100 plus freight.

That's why I've been trying to get TheSGC to answer my questions on how to build one of my own. I went to Radio shack with his schematic and the parts are about $50 all up. There's a 555 Mosfet thread on here somewhere with our discussions and progress.

I plan to buy 3 lots of components and have 3 tries at building it. If I still can't make it work, I'll bite the bullet and buy the Curtis. But I'm going to give it my best shot first, see if I can't build my own instead.

Someone on the 555 thread pointed out that the $2050 difference in parts to the completed product involves things like insurance, rent, utilities, wages, taxes and business risk. Then there's the bit about charging what the market can bear...and at the moment, there's a lot of money looking for gasoline independence.


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> I had the same adventure this week. For me to buy a Curtis 1321C would be $2100 plus freight.
> 
> That's why I've been trying to get TheSGC to answer my questions on how to build one of my own. I went to Radio shack with his schematic and the parts are about $50 all up. There's a 555 Mosfet thread on here somewhere with our discussions and progress.
> 
> ...


PLEASE DO IT! AND... if you could write me with an image of your plan so I can give it a shot myself!? just pm me... please let me know what the parts list is or a source. If two of us try, maybe one or both will succeed... By the way: I love the idea for the bumpersticker! HA... the names that would follow GW's are way too many to be printed... greedy bloodsuckers! 
I have a 1988 Subaru DL that is my next project, and it would be a prime candidate for a homebuilt controller. 
The thing with the Curtis prices has me just boiling! I mean I called the Kelly number and the guy told me... in a follow-up email... "If you want to upgrade, it will cost you just the difference"... I darn near plotz'd!!! I mean they are at least trying to serve their customers! Sheeesh!
Anyway, GO FOR IT!!!


----------



## jlsawell (Apr 4, 2008)

fugdabug said:


> I have a 1988 Subaru DL that is my next project,


[Drool] anything with the word Subaru on it is my dream to convert. I've owned a 1989 sportswagon and a 2001 Forester (brand new) and both of them (even with ICEs) were perfection defined.

My wife an I even plan to buy a 2000/2001 Forester when they get down to about $6,000 and convert it, since she loves it almost as much as I do.

TheSGC has put a MASSIVE amount of work into helping me understand the controller setup - while at the same time finishing his conversion AND college. The guy's a machine... As soon as we have some finished schematics I'll put them in the Wiki and keep a diary of my construction notes.

This parts list is not complete, but you get the idea of what you're paying $2,000 for: 

ZR1100 Diode 1N914/1N4148/BAW76 D $0.32
ZL3555 IC NE555 TIMER DIP8 $0.98
RG5065 CAP GRN 10N 100V P=4mm $0.18
RG5125 CAP GRN 100N 100V P=7mm $0.36
RR0596 RES 0.5W MTL 10K 1% MINI P $0.38
ZL3324 IC LM324N QUAD OPAMP DIP14 $1.50 
RR0620 RES 0.5W MTL 100K 1% MINI $0.38
RR0572 RES 0.5W MTL 10K 1% MINI P $0.38
ZL3339 IC LM339N/LM2901N QUAD COM $1.50

Total: $5.98

Doesn't include the TIPs, IGBT, board, box or heatsink, but you get the idea...


----------



## Tommey Lee Reed (Sep 2, 2008)

Wattmotion said:


> Has anyone used a Kelly Controller and what is your opinion of it or any other 144v units? I am in the process of buying either a Curtis, Belktronix or Kelly Controller. I do like the fact that it is programmable and provides some diagnostic LED to mount in the dash. The Belktronix unit is a packaged system which I don't need and I don't care for the push on connections for the low voltage side. I am looking for reliability and something rock solid. I hear issues about the Curtis and some modification that many do to keep it from blowing up and that the cases are impossible to open.
> 
> I have read many of the forums and see many have tried the Kelly units. I am looking for opinions or experiences good or bad...So give me your opinions... I don't know which to buy.
> 
> ...


Kelly and logisystems are junk!
These controlller will not put out the power listed on their specs.
Cuttis has been around for many years, they have a good 1231c speed controller.
I make my own, because I can, but most controllers are over price and Zilla's are out there in price too.
The best controller would be less power on your next EV, this is why most blow their controller out!


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

jlsawell said:


> [Drool] anything with the word Subaru on it is my dream to convert. I've owned a 1989 sportswagon and a 2001 Forester (brand new) and both of them (even with ICEs) were perfection defined.
> 
> My wife an I even plan to buy a 2000/2001 Forester when they get down to about $6,000 and convert it, since she loves it almost as much as I do.
> 
> ...


Just a thought, but do you have any need for a couple of EEPRoms or a Motorola 68000 CPU... I have a couple of them I got years back and have always thought that they would be handy for a controller system at some time... you can have one if you need it! Along with a couple of EEPRoms.. you would have to make up a breadboard and interface etc., to reprogram the EEPRoms... just wondering.


----------



## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

fugdabug said:


> Just a thought, but do you have any need for a couple of EEPRoms or a Motorola 68000 CPU... I have a couple of them I got years back and have always thought that they would be handy for a controller system at some time... you can have one if you need it! Along with a couple of EEPRoms.. you would have to make up a breadboard and interface etc., to reprogram the EEPRoms... just wondering.


Fugdabug,

68Ks are older than dirt when it comes to embedded systems technology. As someone who has wire wrapped 68K, 68008, and 68020 systems along with the 68340 microcontroller, it's not a path anyone would want to take in the present.

Microcontrollers are all flashed based, with ram and flash embedded along with a ton of useful peripherals. In addition packaging is much better than the 64 DIP or the PGA grid, whose sockets cost a fortune.

With current ARM, PIC, and AVR offerings that are often self programmable and comfortable 18,20,28 and 40 pin DIP packages with embedded PWM, ADC, timers, comparators, USARTs, I2C, SPI, and the like, there are a ton of useful and cost effective options available to the hobbyist.

Personally I'm partial to PICs, but they certainly do have their quirks.

If you get a chance take a look at my 16F88 comparison page which touts the features available:

http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys/16F88.html

When coupled with my Trivial PIC programmer (needs a parallel port) and the fact the microchip will send you up to 15 free sample parts, options certainly abound.

BTW for anyone considering the controller posted in the 555 controller thread, do take a read of some of the shortcomings that I think need to be addressed.

ga2500ev


----------



## fugdabug (Jul 14, 2008)

ga2500ev said:


> Fugdabug,
> 
> 68Ks are older than dirt when it comes to embedded systems technology. As someone who has wire wrapped 68K, 68008, and 68020 systems along with the 68340 microcontroller, it's not a path anyone would want to take in the present.
> 
> ...


just thought you should know... dead link or two on the site.
Hey! what can ya say, I began building back in the days of Machine Code, which I still do every now and then,.. I was a lead/instructor at Data Control, we did contracts for disk units that were needed by Uncle Sam... the 14" platter kind. But I have collected all kinds of stuff over the years, so just thought I would ask.


----------



## Astronomer (Aug 7, 2008)

> Personally I'm partial to PICs, but they certainly do have their quirks.


Have you ever worked with the Texas Instruments MSP430 chips? I've worked with both PICs and MSP430s in almost identical applications, and I've come to love the MSP430s.

But not in a weird way, mind you...


----------



## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

Astronomer said:


> Have you ever worked with the Texas Instruments MSP430 chips? I've worked with both PICs and MSP430s in almost identical applications, and I've come to love the MSP430s.
> 
> But not in a weird way, mind you...


I understand. I never got into MSP430s because of the voltage (3.3V) and packaging (TQFP) requirements.

I do have an ARM LPC2106 board that I bought a while ago sitting around that could do the job.

I guess it's just an issue of change being hard. I've been using PICs since the 16C55 days of the early nineties. I have the toolset and architecture under control. Couple that with free sample parts, and you can see why I'm resistant to change.

ga2500ev


----------



## Mannyman (Jul 26, 2007)

Wattmotion said:


> No, Belktronix, they offer a package deal , controller, battery charger, and other parts... I have been emailing them about the unit, it looks good. I haven't heard a thing about this one... Here's the link, Has anyone used one of these?
> 
> *http://www.belktronix.com*http://www.belktronix.com


 I recommend Belktronix. I've had mine for about a year and am happy with it.


----------

