# generator



## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

They do, but this is an electric car site.

If you are going to use an engine to power a generator, you might as well give it the name of Prius.

You will waste more gas with a portable gen than you would just using a regular engine to propel the car.

You would also need a BIG gen unit.

Welcome to the best EV site in the business......


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## infantry11b (Feb 6, 2010)

i like the idea of a portable generator - but not like the prius does it.
i want a pure ev conversion but i recognize that it would be easy to keep a generator with me - SMALL ONE - to run when i get low on battery power - or park and dont have a plug in place. i think a small generator can help charge the batteries up until i can get back home and plug in.
i want an ev and limit the use of gas, etc., but i dont want to find myself sitting out on a road with no power. knocking on a strangers door and asking for 6 hours of their electricity is not an option.
so - lets say you want to carry a generator with you - what would you recommend for charging the system?
and is there a recommendation for max efficiency in charging a battery - say a lead battery pack of 10 or 12 so its 120 or 144 volts?
i am also looking to set up a system at home where i can use solar for charging but that is a different story.
thanks


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

infantry11b said:


> i like the idea of a portable generator - but not like the prius does it.
> i want a pure ev conversion but i recognize that it would be easy to keep a generator with me - SMALL ONE - to run when i get low on battery power - or park and dont have a plug in place. i think a small generator can help charge the batteries up until i can get back home and plug in.
> i want an ev and limit the use of gas, etc., but i dont want to find myself sitting out on a road with no power. knocking on a strangers door and asking for 6 hours of their electricity is not an option.
> so - lets say you want to carry a generator with you - what would you recommend for charging the system?
> ...


i just finished generator for my house battery bank. it's a Hatz diesel big old one 8hp I think with 8" pulley on the engine and about 3" on generator end , this is to much speed increase on the gen side . But it works great at 50v dc (48v system with out back controller ). the gen is a pm brush motor 24 or 36 volt from a floor sweeper. the thing will start on the gen or the normal starter. very effecent ,just work the throttle to manage volts and amps , switch on or off . it doesn't handle 12 volt but good on 24 to 60 or so . think it will handle 12v if gen is slowed down a little .


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

aeroscott said:


> i just finished generator for my house battery bank. it's a Hatz diesel big old one 8hp I think with 8" pulley on the engine and about 3" on generator end , this is to much speed increase on the gen side . But it works great at 50v dc (48v system with out back controller ). the gen is a pm brush motor 24 or 36 volt from a floor sweeper. the thing will start on the gen or the normal starter. *very effecent* ,just work the throttle to manage volts and amps , switch on or off . it doesn't handle 12 volt but good on 24 to 60 or so . think it will handle 12v if gen is slowed down a little .


To judge its efficiency you'd have to tell us how much current you can pull from your generator at 48V nominal DC. Stating volts alone is useless, you need to figure out continuous wattage that generator can produce for say one hour and how much diesel it burns during that time. Then we can see how efficient it is. Also important to know dimensions of the whole thing and how much it weighs.


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## infantry11b (Feb 6, 2010)

aeroscott said:


> i just finished generator for my house battery bank. it's a Hatz diesel big old one 8hp I think with 8" pulley on the engine and about 3" on generator end , this is to much speed increase on the gen side . But it works great at 50v dc (48v system with out back controller ). the gen is a pm brush motor 24 or 36 volt from a floor sweeper. the thing will start on the gen or the normal starter. very effecent ,just work the throttle to manage volts and amps , switch on or off . it doesn't handle 12 volt but good on 24 to 60 or so . think it will handle 12v if gen is slowed down a little .


thanks for the info  i will keep it around for a "maybe try this" later down the road. how much did the thing weigh? that is a big if for me.


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## aeroscott (Jan 5, 2008)

I am maxed out on projects therefore not willing to do watts per gallon test at this time . I haven't run it since January as I'm on a different boat with a 3 cylinder 60 hz @ 1800 r's charging threw a inverter 100 amp charger . So this ac system is at several disadvantages . 1 cylinder verses 3 , then 120 volts to 12 instead of 48 volt system direct charging batteries , to add to this mess 48 volts system is high end agm's and 12 volts are L17 fluides and one more caveiot , solar panels 2kw/day on 48v system verses .5kw/day on 12v @ January conditions . OK we know pm generators are the hands down most efficient IE Honda invertec ,Toyota Prius ,etc. with voltage regulator systems (powered field ) you have the power loss but cheaper regulators are 1/2 wave the better are full wave so you end up with a lot of hash as the inducing the system , not good for batteries as micro pulses can induce micro charge /discharges into the battery life cycle . this genset is a slow turning thumper about as heavy as 1000cc 3 cycinder diesel 100 lbs plus generator etc , 50 amps 55 volts at 1000 rpm's


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

rob_bluhm said:


> instead of using batteries to power your car I was needing to know if I could use a protable generator instead of the batteries? Do they make a controller that accepts AC current instead of DC current?


http://www.evconsultinginc.com/articles/hybridizing_dc_system.html


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## ga2500ev (Apr 20, 2008)

infantry11b said:


> i like the idea of a portable generator - but not like the prius does it.
> i want a pure ev conversion but i recognize that it would be easy to keep a generator with me - SMALL ONE - to run when i get low on battery power - or park and dont have a plug in place. i think a small generator can help charge the batteries up until i can get back home and plug in.


This issue seems to be a major sticking point with a lot of EV newcomers. I guess it's worth exploring again.

The fact that EVs have limited range seem to bother people. I'm really trying to get to the bottom of why. So let's start with this.



> i want an ev and limit the use of gas, etc., but i dont want to find myself sitting out on a road with no power. knocking on a strangers door and asking for 6 hours of their electricity is not an option.


OK. The question is how exactly does the situation above arise? Walking out the door, every EV driver knows that their vehicle has a limited range before recharge. So if you run out of power, then one of a very small number of things have happened:

1) Improper trip planning. You went to where you wanted to go, but the car simply didn't have the range to make it.

2) An emergent situation. You had to be somewhere you did not expect to be.

The first case of course is driver error. In the second case it's an emergency and as such unusual measures to resolve the situation are warranted, such as calling a cab, or calling a friend/family member/cowoker to assist.

The real question is the benefit of carrying a bunch of emergency equipment on the off chance that you may get into an emergent situation.

Finally opportunity charging doesn't have to be a full blown affair. Even with a standard 120V outlet @ 15A you can draw 1.8 kWh worth of power in an hour. This certainly can give you enough juice to get you where you are going. And it's probably going to provide just as much power as a small generator.


> so - lets say you want to carry a generator with you - what would you recommend for charging the system?
> and is there a recommendation for max efficiency in charging a battery - say a lead battery pack of 10 or 12 so its 120 or 144 volts?
> i am also looking to set up a system at home where i can use solar for charging but that is a different story.
> thanks


The problem is that for a generator to be useful it's going to need to generate quite a bit of power. Which means it's going to be hefty. Finally you have to carry it around all the time, while most of the time it's not being used, which in fact further cuts down your EV range.

In short, instead of a generator, simply plan not to be stranded. If I need to tow my trailer, I plan to use my truck, and not my sedan. So if you know what you are going out of range, simply use another vehicle.

EVs at this time are simply not designed to be a full time replacement for a gas vehicle. That's not their purpose. At this time they are a limited use, special purpose commuter vehicle. Funny thing is that the vast majority of our driving needs are exactly that.

This is the reason that everyone here is so absolutely hot on lithium. Pack enough of it in a vehicle, and you get daily ranges that take care of everything but the most extreme outliers. But that benefit comes at a still significant up front cost.

Just guestimating, you have 12V lead in a 120V-144V config. Presuming something in the 100 Ah range (high currents) and derating for 80% DOD and Peukert (say a factor of 1.4) you get something like:

144*100/1.4=10285 Wh.

Again guessing a median Wh/mile of 275 you get
10285/275 = 37.4 miles.

The question is how many times do you commute daily outside that range? If it's often, get more or different batteries. If not, then carry a long extension cord for emergencies and call it a day.

BTW at 275 Wh/mile, that hour's charging will get you an extra 7 miles.

You should head out the door expecting to fail. You plan to succeed and have a backup plan or two if things change.

Actually a generator isn't a terribly bad idea. The terribly bad idea is thinking that you have to carry with you everywhere at all times. You'd only need one in an emergency. Seems to me it would be smarter to keep one at home and on the off chance that you do get stuck out in the middle of nowhere, simply call someone to pick it up and bring it to you. Remember you'd only need to use it in an emergency.

It seems to me, and I think I've discussed it before, that maybe instead of carrying a space generator, that carrying a spare battery would be a better idea. Zinc/Air and Aluminum/Air batteries are powerful, lightweight, and inexpensive to manufacture. Their sole problem is that they are primary batteries, so they are not rechargable. But as a spare that would be perfect. Keep them sealed from air until you need them, then open them up, connect to your system, and off you go. They are one time use, so you'd have to replace it after you use it. But like I keep saying, it's an emergency.

Just my thoughts on the subject. I just find little sense in carrying something that is dead weight 99.9% of the time. Especially when that dead weight uses the very fuel that and EV is designed to eliminate.

OTOH the hybrid that I would think has a possibility is liquid nitrogen (LN2). Fundamentally you use electricity to freeze air, then use the expansion of the steaming LN2 as it heats to power a generator or to put power directly onto the ground. LN2 is relatively cheap and can be made anywhere. It's totally non toxic (unless you get into a nitrogen filled space with no O2! ). And it has a usable power density where a current gas tank full of it can get you close to 100 miles of range.

A LN2/plugin is an idea I could actually support.

ga2500ev


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