# EV grin



## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

I've been spreading the EV grin to my relatives lately. Here's my father in law with a freshly applied EV grin! 











The car seems to run very well. Clutch less shifting is a breeze and acceleration is swift. Currently I'm running with only 9 12V NiMH modules and a Curtis 1231C controller. 

I'll be finishing up the car and getting it legal over the xmas break.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

wow, congrats! I love the Fiat Spyder. A great car. Do you you know or have a good idea of what your car weighs now?


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Awesome. 

Maybe you could also comment your opinion about the "Curtis Whine".

It seems a lot of folks that frequent the forum have been lead to believe from videos and other such mess, that the Curtis "whine" is loud and obnoxious, to which I usually reply that they should hook up with their local EV club and go for a ride in a curtis-equipped vehicle.

It pains me to see people choose sub-standard controllers almost entirely due to the "whine" and then have the lesser components blow up on them within 12 miles or such...


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Looks like fun! That is quite an EV grin indeed!


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

TX_Dj said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Maybe you could also comment your opinion about the "Curtis Whine".
> 
> ...


 
gotta chime in! I hardly EVER notice the whine... I think the problem is that when you video an EV with a Curtis, the camcorder seems to amplify the sound of the controller. It's not at all loud and it only last for a second or so... my mr2 PS pump makes more noise than my controller


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Exactly my point. They're not loud, but people watch videos online and think "My god, how can anyone put up with that awful screeching noise?" when in reality, it's barely audible.

Last weekend at the NTEAA meeting, we had several folks standing around when the club president drove off in his fiero, and honestly, the vacuum pump was the loudest thing on the car, and it was barely audible.


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## ragee (May 25, 2008)

Yea, I use a curtis and the whine is barely noticable. I hear the tire noise over the top of it.

The fiat is awesome. I'm also interested in the gvw so if you find out please post.

R Agee


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

My curtis (a 1231C) is pretty loud but as soon as you exceed 5mph or so (same with all curtis controllers) the frequency shifts and the whine goes away. In my car the controller is almost directly behind the passenger seat and I pulled most of the sound insulation so that might be why it seems louder to me.

but I would still take the curtis over some of these other controllers people have been having trouble with.


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## madderscience (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh, and what type of Ni-MH batteries are those and where did you get them?

Thanks!


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

PatricioIN said:


> wow, congrats! I love the Fiat Spyder. A great car. Do you you know or have a good idea of what your car weighs now?


I'm not sure exactly how much it weighs. Judging by suspension height the front is a little lighter than stock and the rear is about stock. So I'm guessing about 2000 - 2200lbs. I'm planning on adding a couple more batteries and removing the two 60lbs 5mph bumpers.


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

The Curtis whine is far less annoying than I thought it would be before I ended up with a Curtis. Not that I wouldn't like to get rid of it, but it is just not a big deal. The vacuum pump is more annoying.

I've had people comment "Wow, that is such a futuristic sound!"

The NiMH batteries are EV95 modules from Panasonic. I got them from a coworker who worked for Honda when they dismantled their EVplus program.


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## rfengineers (Jun 2, 2008)

peggus said:


> The Curtis whine is far less annoying than I thought it would be before I ended up with a Curtis. Not that I wouldn't like to get rid of it, but it is just not a big deal. The vacuum pump is more annoying.
> 
> I've had people comment "Wow, that is such a futuristic sound!"


I listen for the 'Curtis Whine' as a signal that the controller is working. My Subaru power steering pump is louder, and the vacuum pump is loudest.

I've had people suggest that I add sound effects under the hood. One suggested playing the sound of the car from the movie "Flubber". When I get my Sunbeam on the road I will have the ability to play the "Get Smart" theme song through an under the bonnet speaker.


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## PatricioIN (Jun 13, 2008)

rfengineers said:


> I listen for the 'Curtis Whine' as a signal that the controller is working. My Subaru power steering pump is louder, and the vacuum pump is loudest.
> 
> I've had people suggest that I add sound effects under the hood. One suggested playing the sound of the car from the movie "Flubber". When I get my Sunbeam on the road I will have the ability to play the "Get Smart" theme song through an under the bonnet speaker.


dude.. I totally love the Flubber car sound idea!!!


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## Jordan (Oct 29, 2008)

peggus said:


> I'm not sure exactly how much it weighs. Judging by suspension height the front is a little lighter than stock and the rear is about stock. So I'm guessing about 2000 - 2200lbs. I'm planning on adding a couple more batteries and removing the two 60lbs 5mph bumpers.


If you really want to know you could always drive it to a landfill, assuming there is a local one near you. They have big scales you can drive on.


Almost forgot to say what a nice pick for an EV.


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## ZenDaddy (Jul 22, 2008)

Peggus

Absolutely gorgeous. My little 850 convertible actually twitched a little when I showed it the pics.

The look on your Dads face is priceless.

Do you have pics of the motor and mount that you used? I have checked out your website (not recently) and will again. I am following in your footsteps.

Also, do you have suggestions for a Spider forum and source for hard to find parts?

ZD


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

There's a post on my website showing the mounts. My motor came with mounts for an S10 welded to it. I made some adapter brackets to fit them to the Fiat motor mounts.


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## ZenDaddy (Jul 22, 2008)

peggus said:


> There's a post on my website showing the mounts. My motor came with mounts for an S10 welded to it. I made some adapter brackets to fit them to the Fiat motor mounts.


Thanks Peggus

Revisited the website.

Turns out yours is front engine and mine is rear... no help there.

Any suggestions on a parts supplier?

ZD


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

I get most of my parts on ebay and www.international-auto.com. The nice thing about the 124 spider is that they imported some 120000 cars into the US so there is no major problem finding parts for them.


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

More EV grinning:

On tuesday, inauguration day, I drove the car to the DMV to get it inspected and have the registration changed to show that it's an electric car. I was quite nervous since I've never driven it further than up and down the street and I wasn't sure I would make it there and back.
Well I made it, unfortunatly I don't have any pictures so you'll have to make do with this beautiful graph of my journey




The graph shows the battery voltages, my BMS measures the voltage of every five cells, the Ah consumption and instantaneous current. It looks like I'm cruising at 50 - 75 Amps and pull up to 450Amps on acceleration. The battery voltage is very stiff.

The whole process at the DMV was rather uneventful. I just had to drive up to the inspection area, open the hood and answer a few question. The inspector made sure the car did not have an engine or tailpipe, and signed some forms. They didn't care about any of the standard requirements like lights, breaks, signals etc. 

Total consumption was 11 Ah to drive the 4.15 miles to the DMV. At a nominal pack voltage of 96V that works out to 254 Wh/mile. The drive home was uphill and came out to 323Wh/mile. Average for the trip was 288Wh/mile, not great but also not a bad start considering I haven't even aligned it yet. There is plenty of room for improvements in aerodynamics as well.




On Wednesday I drove the car to work for the first time. It sure is an interesting ride, kind of like driving a large go cart. The transmission is quite noisy in 2nd and 3rd gear, 4th gear is nice and quiet but a little to high of a ratio to use on surface streets. 

The ten mile trip to work consumed only 200Wh/mile, it is a 400ft drop in altitude though. The trip home cost me 270Wh/ mile so it seems either the driver or the car has gotten more efficient. I suspect the new brakes may have been dragging somewhat during my drive to the DMV.

Despite the crappy weather; I've been driving to work all week now, the EV grin is growing and the car seems to work great. 

My main issue is the transmission noise and some rattling going on. I did remove the tar based vibration dampening material from large sections of the floor boards so I'm looking into putting that stuff back. I'm also going to try to add some closed cell foam around transmission tunnel and use a thicker transmission fluid.

My front suspension is a bit stiff, I never added back all the weight I removed. This makes the car a somewhat rough ride. I could either try to find softer springs or figure out a way to add more batteries to the front. The latter would require some rearrangement of the power electronics but I think it can be done.


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

peggus said:


> More EV grinning:
> 
> My main issue is the transmission noise and some rattling going on. I did remove the tar based vibration dampening material from large sections of the floor boards so I'm looking into putting that stuff back. I'm also going to try to add some closed cell foam around transmission tunnel and use a thicker transmission fluid.


Peggus,

You will find that most modern 4 and 5 speed transmissions use straight cut gears for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears and direct coupling of the mainshaft for 4 speeds and add on 5th gear transmissions or helical cut gears for 4th and 5th gears for true 5 speeds where the power path is through the layshaft on road gears. Straight cut gears are noisy, they rattle clank and whine.

Another way of saying it is acceleration gears are straight cut and noisy and road (traveling) gears are cut with a gear pattern (helical or diagonal) that is quieter. If you have installed lighter oil in the transmission, that will just make the noise worse. If you put the wrong lighter oil in the transmission, you may have damaged the bearings and be the cause of the noise. Putting standard high pressure lubricants back in may help if that is the case.

Of course you could just have a worn out transmission too. 

You might have to make a gearing change in the axle to put your power band into a range where 4th gear can be used. Adding batteries and changing the volts/amps picture might also allow you to run 4th gear more easily.

Jim


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## Bottomfeeder (Jun 13, 2008)

Congratulations! Great looking graph!

Don't forget to apply for your EV Parking Decal: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg4048.htm You can get free parking in LA, as well as free parking and charging at LAX. Besides, it's a subtle way to show off.


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

Thanks, I didn't know about those. Feel free to come by for a test drive some day if you need some motivation to keep working on the sparkfire.





Bottomfeeder said:


> Congratulations! Great looking graph!
> 
> Don't forget to apply for your EV Parking Decal: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg4048.htm You can get free parking in LA, as well as free parking and charging at LAX. Besides, it's a subtle way to show off.


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## peggus (Feb 18, 2008)

I'm aware of this. The Fiat tranny does however have helical gears in all gears except reverse as far as I know. I suspect the shaft bearings are worn. The transmission does have 83000 miles on it after all. 

I'm currently using pennsoil synchromesh oil in the transmission. I think it's lighter weight than the recommended GL1 oil, which is pure mineral oil. 

For the record, oil with high pressure additives is to be avoided in 124 gearboxes since it corrodes the brass syncromeshes.

Now, since I only really need 3rd and 4th gear I'd like to find a planetary reducer that would give me 1:1 and 1:1.5 ish. Reversing could be done with a contactor easily enough. No need to carry around all those gears I don't use. But I'm mostly just dreaming here.





Jimdear2 said:


> Peggus,
> 
> You will find that most modern 4 and 5 speed transmissions use straight cut gears for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears and direct coupling of the mainshaft for 4 speeds and add on 5th gear transmissions or helical cut gears for 4th and 5th gears for true 5 speeds where the power path is through the layshaft on road gears. Straight cut gears are noisy, they rattle clank and whine.
> 
> ...


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

peggus said:


> ...
> The graph shows the battery voltages, my BMS measures the voltage of every five cells, the Ah consumption and instantaneous current. It looks like I'm cruising at 50 - 75 Amps and pull up to 450Amps on acceleration. The battery voltage is very stiff.
> ...


Are the amp values for the battery side of the controller or the motor?

Also, how would you describe the acceleration from a stop with your current setup? An actual time for 0-30 (or whatever you can manage in a single gear) would be even nicer to know, but even an adjective (sluggish, zippy, or the like) will be fine with me.


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