# UQM powerphase 150



## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

ozabay said:


> Hey howdy,
> I am confused about something I might use some help... I have a UQM powerphase 150 traction system, on the spec. sheet it says "permanent magnet brusless" motor.. I am really new in game so what i wanted to ask is; is this motor a brushless DC or synchronous permanent magnet motor? I am really confused which control system to design for this particular motor.. I was planning to use vector control in case it is a synchronous motor..
> This is a great forum BTW hope to hear from you soon
> 
> best regards


You'll get a better answer then mine but it sounds like it certainly is a brushless 3 phase AC motor.
Next question many of us will want answered; how and for how much did you get hold of one of these motors?


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

ozabay said:


> ... I have a UQM powerphase 150 traction system,....is this motor a brushless DC or synchronous permanent magnet motor?


Hi oza,

What is the difference between a BLDC motor and PMSM?

And I don't understand why you ask. Did you not get the motor controller from UQM with the motor?

Regards,

major


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

ozabay said:


> Hey howdy,
> I am confused about something I might use some help... I have a UQM powerphase 150 traction system, on the spec. sheet it says "permanent magnet brusless" motor.. I am really new in game so what i wanted to ask is; is this motor a brushless DC or synchronous permanent magnet motor? I am really confused which control system to design for this particular motor.. I was planning to use vector control in case it is a synchronous motor..
> This is a great forum BTW hope to hear from you soon
> 
> best regards


From the UQM website. Let us know how you get on and some pictures of the motor would be cool.


> The electronic controllers that drive UQM® machines consist of DC bus capacitance, a three-phase semiconductor bridge (six power switches), and a digital signal processor to control switch timing to optimize system performance. Controllers use off-the-shelf electronic components from reputable suppliers that have proven to offer superior performance through years of qualification testing. Packaging expertise at UQM® is employed to minimize the size and weight of the electronics box.


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

A BLDC or Permanent Magnet AC motor is a type of Synchronous Motor.


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## Coulomb (Apr 22, 2009)

major said:


> What is the difference between a BLDC motor and PMSM?


I seem to be detecting a drift towards calling a motor driven with trapezoidal current a brushless "DC" motor (since you drive it with square waves, resulting in trapezoidal current, and square waves can be thought of as commutated DC), and the same or a similar motor (maybe the magnetic path is a bit different) driven with sine waves is called a brushless AC motor. When "synchronous permanent magnet" is specified without a DC or AC tag, the assumption seems to be AC (sine wave drive).

Despite that, I suspect that most of the motors that are labelled BLDC (e.g. Prius) are actually driven with sine waves. But I'd love to know for sure.

I totally agree that these motors have some of the most confusing terminology that there is.


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## ozabay (Mar 22, 2010)

frodus said:


> A BLDC or Permanent Magnet AC motor is a type of Synchronous Motor.


Exactly; BLDC and PM motors are 2 seperate types of synch machines right? And PM motors are a type of sin wave motors. So how could it be possibly a PM motor and brushless at the same time? Actually i get how it is possible be but how am i gonna find a transfer function for that kind of controller in order to control the speed or torque?



karlos said:


> From the UQM website. Let us know how you get on and some pictures of the motor would be cool.


Sure no problem, u will meet the fella this evening(morning for you)...



Major said:


> Hi oza,
> 
> What is the difference between a BLDC motor and PMSM?
> 
> ...


Hi major,
As i mentioned before, i am quite unexperienced about EV's. All i know is i have a UQM motor and M-Autobox (dSpace sort of DPS). I am not really sure if I have UQM controller.. I am asking the motor type because(please correct me if i am wrong at next step) I need motor transfer function in order to desing a control system for speed, position and torque right?  right?


BTW i wish i could help you with purchasing process but the person provided me was a professor at somewhere in states.. I will ask him.. at least i can do


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

ozabay said:


> All i know is i have a UQM motor and M-Autobox (dSpace sort of DPS). I am not really sure if I have UQM controller.. I am asking the motor type because(please correct me if i am wrong at next step) I need motor transfer function in order to desing a control system for speed, position and torque right?  right?


Hi oza,

I have never used an UQM product. But have followed them and their product development over the years. This is my understanding. They make an excellent product, but expensive. They only sell it as a motor and controller package. Much of their intellectual property is in the motor control algorithms. The controller is programmed specifically to the motor. The controller includes all the power electronics (inverter bridge), feedback conditioning and control logic for powering the motor. The user simply must give to the controller commands such as on/off, forward/reverse and torque reference. The commands most likely can be switches and pots, or signals from a network such as CAN. 

The user can consider the motor and controller as a single black box in his propulsion system. There is no need to deal with motor transfer functions or the like. Simply supply DC power to the black box and tell it what to do, meaning a torque or speed command.

I would be surprised if UQM supplies such an expensive motor and control package without a manual. If you do not have a manual, I would certainly ask them for one. This manual should inform you as to how to properly use the product.

Regards,

major


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## zwmaster (Nov 23, 2009)

I have found this manual in my drawer. Maybe it will help.


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## ozabay (Mar 22, 2010)

zwmaster said:


> I have found this manual in my drawer. Maybe it will help.


Thank you so much zwmaster, it will definitely help...



carlos said:


> From the UQM website. Let us know how you get on and some pictures of the motor would be cool.


http://img38.imageshack.us/i/image102k.jpg/
http://img248.imageshack.us/i/image099ej.jpg/
http://img683.imageshack.us/i/image098tk.jpg/

Picture quality is little bit low sorry about that.. blame Nokia 8800 



major said:


> The user can consider the motor and controller as a single black box in his propulsion system. There is no need to deal with motor transfer functions or the like. Simply supply DC power to the black box and tell it what to do, meaning a torque or speed command.


Major;
I appreciate your help thats a great guidence for a beginner. But that brought up another question in my mind... What is the difference between motor control and vehicle control? As far i learned from what you said controller takes care of motor control part... Because i am quite confident i am supposed to control the vehicle as well.. in another words what is that M-Autobox for?
BTW I just found DVD in the controller box which includes user manuel as well..

Edit: It says on the controller (also at the first page of user manuel) DC brushless motor controller.. So can I be sure that it is a brushless DC motor?(I ashamed about that question but I will learn right?)

cheers


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## major (Apr 4, 2008)

ozabay said:


> What is the difference between motor control and vehicle control? in another words what is that M-Autobox for?


Hi oza,

The vehicle controller can be as simple as a sensor (pot) and switches and the driver. Those devices will connect to the motor controller and use the driver's brain, foot and hands to control the vehicle in the desired manner.

Often times, especially on commercial vehicles, a systems controller is needed to perform functions without depending on the driver to do everything. These might include making sure the doors are closed before allowing departure of the vehicle, or monitoring battery state of charge, or other safety and/or performance items. Using all this information, a processor takes commands from the driver and all other inputs to output commands to the motor controller. 

I see from a previous post of yours that it is a bus for your project. Modern buses use a network such as CAN which provides communication between a number of control modules located on the engine, transmission, dashboard and elsewhere around the vehicle. Somewhere, I suspect, either located in one of those modules or separately, is a vehicle systems controller which is programmed to make it all work properly. zwmaster has posted up the CAN manual for the UQM. So it is possible that you can use CAN to command the motor controller from the existing systems controller which would need to be reprogrammed, or make your own systems controller and use CAN to communicate with the existing hardware on the bus and the new motor controller.

Spend some time with that manual and I think you will see what I'm talking about.

Oh, I never saw the word "M-Autobox" before. No idea 

major


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## rallycar (Dec 3, 2009)

hello Ozabay, if I may ask, how has managed to buy this engine?, Had understood that UQM not sell to private individuals, could share the secret to getting one ? and if not indiscreet, how much it has cost the toy?.

Thank you very much.


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## rallycar (Dec 3, 2009)

... Hi?? ...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

UQM got to him


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## karlos (Jun 30, 2008)

JRP3 said:


> UQM got to him


Maybe he got the motor from the previous owner who UQM bumped off??


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## zaxxon (Jul 11, 2009)

ozabay said:


> Hi major,
> As i mentioned before, i am quite unexperienced about EV's. All i know is i have a UQM motor and M-Autobox (dSpace sort of DPS). I am not really sure if I have UQM controller.. I am asking the motor type because(please correct me if i am wrong at next step) I need motor transfer function in order to desing a control system for speed, position and torque right?


The dSpace MicroAutoBox is an ECM like real-time system for performing rapid control prototyping (RCP) applications. It could be used to perform either the motor or the vehicle control functions.
http://www.dspaceinc.com/ww/en/inc/home/products/hw/micautob.cfm


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## controls.freq (Apr 9, 2010)

Oza,
Can you tell me how much you paid for the motor (or at least a ballpark)? I'm really interested in getting one of these set ups, but I need to know how much I'm going to be investing in it.
Thanks!


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

I doubt you'll be able to get one but they run around $25,000 last I knew. UQM only sells to OEMs most of the time.


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## controls.freq (Apr 9, 2010)

Wow, that's like twice as much as I was figuring. Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to come up with a new plan. Are there any other motors which can boast the same numbers? I checked out the warP motors, but they don't even come near the same power (unless UQM is giving wildly inflated numbers).


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

JRP3 said:


> I doubt you'll be able to get one but they run around $25,000 last I knew. UQM only sells to OEMs most of the time.


It was $38.000 last time I asked.


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

controls.freq said:


> Are there any other motors which can boast the same numbers?


If you can actually purchase them they'll be around the same price. You have to pay to play


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## geerant (Oct 25, 2010)

If you are still looking for a motor as good (Or better imo) than the UQM, take a look at www.Evo-electric.com. I bought the AFM140/4 a couple of months ago and at the time it cost me $11'000 AUD, but that will change with the currency..

I didn't use there controller however (not that i have anything against it), Its just I already had the Tritium Wavesculptor 200 http://www.tritium.com.au/products/TRI74/index.html It is manufactured here in Brisbane Australia and cost me $6000 AUD.



Check out my Ev conversion here: www.evalbum.com/2715
or here: http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=2300&PID=29065#29065


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Pricey setup, but should be really good performance.


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## tomofreno (Mar 3, 2009)

Nice power density! But that 15" diameter would be hard to fit in some cars. And yeah, pricey.


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## geerant (Oct 25, 2010)

Yeah it has been pricey, but to me, worth every cent 

The bulk of it has been ordered payed for, and most of the parts have arrived so no more forking out heaps of money (I hope)

I am just waiting on batteries now to commence the battery boxes. I will get the adaptor plate and coupling made up next week.


Yes the motor really would only fit to a larger diameter bell housing. With the power and torque however, direct drive in the smaller car's would get around this and would still perform really well..



Working on the "Magnatron"
www.evalbum.com/2715

http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=2300&PID=29065#29065


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## RoughRider (Aug 14, 2008)

you will get this numbers out of the motor ONLY if we use a 600V battery...

else...the numbers will be much lower...

@geerant

what is the voltage you want to use?


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## geerant (Oct 25, 2010)

I am going to use 115 Thundersky batteries in series. so if they are 3.4V each ill have a 391V battery pack (368V @ 3.2 per cell). Below is the predicted performance as quoted by Evo Electric upon purchasing my motor. I have the 4 turn version, so less power more torque.

For more information about it view my evalbum
www.evalbum.com/2715

Or my full build here (Still under construction however)
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=2300


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