# A123 Battery Pricing



## bblocher (Jul 30, 2008)

Has anybody tried to contact A123 and see what their minimum orders are and how much per cell?


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

I have. They never got back to me.

Same story with any other lithium battery company in the western world.


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## Uncle Joseph (May 7, 2008)

bblocher said:


> Has anybody tried to contact A123 and see what their minimum orders are and how much per cell?


The only thing available to DIYers is the developer kit. It comes with 6 cells for $129.00. Two or more kits are available for $110.00 each.

Developer Kit Link

The only other people that have large-quantity access are commercial developers (e.g. Tesla Motors). Just like Altair Nano, they will not market to individuals.

And since you need 6831 A123 cells for a Tesla-sized pack, that's about $125,000. Even if you tried to get by with 1/4 the setup of a Tesla, that's $31,300 in developer kits. And that's just for the cells...then you need the BMS, charger, holders for all those 18650 form factor cells...uhh I'm going to implode...


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## coal_burner (Jun 24, 2008)

i use Dewalt 36 volt battery packs for my a123 cells. You can buy the packs for $140 each (thats $14 per cell). Long term, i'm planning on removing the cells and building a big parallel pack, but for right now, three of them in series is giving me 96v to run various power tools for testing.


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## Jeff (Sep 25, 2008)

bblocher said:


> Has anybody tried to contact A123 and see what their minimum orders are and how much per cell?


A123 Systems may still be in their "quiet period" while preparing to complete their initial public offering. Although I have to admit that I've not kept up on this subject lately.
It is very unlikely they will sell any amount of M1 cells to a new customer during this quiet time.

My last purchase, made 18 months ago, required a minimum number of 4800 piece pallets. Seriously. The pricing was good. 
A signed NDA with them as part of the agreement prohibits me from disclosing prices. And I cannot remarket individual loose cells, or use them in hand tools. Historically, this is a common practice for them.

If you get beyond the front door, expect to provide your credentials, along with details on your application. Further, you may be required to submit your cell/module management design for review by their apps dept.

A123 Systems wants to be assured you know what you are doing, and they have no interest in selling to an integrator who may damage the product or themselves in working with it.

Jeff


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Thanks for the info, Jeff. I'd imagine your final statement is exactly what sets apart US-based companies and China-based companies with this technology. China wants to sell sell sell, who cares if the kids eat the lead-based paint...


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## 280z1975 (Oct 2, 2008)

https://ssl.kundenserver.de/www.dac...+Zelle+2300+mAh+mit+L=F6tfahne+=28MBau0001=29

I found this the other day when looking around for European sources for LIFEPO4 batteries and A123 cells.

These A123 cells are 3.3V 2300mA and weigh just 68 grams.

Now my question is ... if wanted to build a 144v, 80AH pack that would be then (35 cells per 'brick" for 80AH and then 44 bricks of 3.3V to give the 144V desired). This would be an powerful pack and would weigh just under 105kgs (or 230lbs). Is my math right?

It would also cost you 17,710 euros (about 23,700 USD). 

Not sure how this guy gets his cells, but I got to the website after seeing his ebay.de listing.

-Gregg-


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## LiFeBATT_UK (Jun 2, 2008)

david85 said:


> I have. They never got back to me.
> 
> Same story with any other lithium battery company in the western world.


Hi Guys, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but have you tried your local LiFeBATT dealer.

144V 80Ah including BMS @ LiFeBATT is $24K with a 3 year warranty, 196kg.

Yes it it expensive, but its a plug and play system, with a battery protection module, fully guaranteed and integrated with Zivan charging systems.

On my own project, once I had made up the welding cables, it took me three hours to fit the system, from taking the battery modules out of the box to turning the wheels. 

Cheers,

Ian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

LiFeBATT_UK said:


> Hi Guys, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but have you tried your local LiFeBATT dealer.
> 
> 144V 80Ah including BMS @ LiFeBATT is $24K with a 3 year warranty, 196kg.
> 
> ...


hi Ian,
I wouldn't call that hijacking. Any info on lithium is welcome, especially pricing.

Heard about lifebatt before on the forum, but the price is just too high for me to consider. Chinese suppliers are nearly half that and some will drop off the list price with negotiation in some cases. Normally I wouldn't give such a detailed price breakdown for a quote that I receive, but since the quote is nearly a year old, it doesn't really matter.

179.2V 200AH battery Unit price:
cells:USD16,232

273.75V 30A charger:USD1,778
BMS:145

Aluminium alloy case:USD1160
Total:USD19,315

This was also a "plug and play" setup.
http://www.alibaba.com:80/product-f...lectric_Car_200ah_179_2v_Li_Ion_Battery_.html

This quote was from as satellite office for huanyu power company, LTD. One of the biggest manufacturers of lithium batteries in the world (mainland china). Prices from china are very competitive and the quality doesn't seem to be as bad as some have led us to believe. I am working on a test sample from another chinese company at the moment.


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## 280z1975 (Oct 2, 2008)

LiFeBATT_UK said:


> Hi Guys, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but have you tried your local LiFeBATT dealer.
> 
> 144V 80Ah including BMS @ LiFeBATT is $24K with a 3 year warranty, 196kg.
> 
> ...


I have seen your website (it's high up on my list of **If I only had the money** websites where I would buy LIFEPO4) ... Since your here following the thread. Is your warranty a full replacement or is a pro-rated on the life of the battery?

Also, is there an easy/rough way to compare the AH rating of two packs, one lead and one lithium, for the same specs. I've read they are a bit different in how the C ratings are calculated?

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread ...

-Gregg-


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## LiFeBATT_UK (Jun 2, 2008)

The 'C' rating of LiFeBATT is pretty constant up to about 8C. From my 7.2kWh pack I get a good 6.4kWh of usable energy, more if I'm not bothered about the reduced vehicle performance. The most the Wh meter has read was 7.01kWh, full charge in 2.5 hours from my home wall outlet, on a Zivan NG3.

From my 144V 50Ah pack I regularly pull 500A peak, 20 seconds, and 300A continuous.

The warranty is 3 years on a replacement basis, you don't get another three years on anything we have to replace. Our modules compare easily to LA, in terms of ease of installation, simple bricks, connected in parallel.

Comparing LA to LiFeBATT, half the Ah, roughly 20%+ more range and a more constant performance throughout the charge. BUT, depends on the vehicle, if you have your current Wh per mile, LA pack spec and vehicle weight, I can give some more accurate advice.

Cheers,

Ian


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## david85 (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes, voltage sag plays a big role in comparing lead to lithium. I understand that lead can be as low as 50% efficient when it comes to delivering the rated storage capacity.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

LiFeBATT_UK said:


> The 'C' rating of LiFeBATT is pretty constant up to about 8C. From my 7.2kWh pack I get a good 6.4kWh of usable energy, more if I'm not bothered about the reduced vehicle performance. The most the Wh meter has read was 7.01kWh, full charge in 2.5 hours from my home wall outlet, on a Zivan NG3.
> 
> From my 144V 50Ah pack I regularly pull 500A peak, 20 seconds, and 300A continuous.
> 
> ...


 Hi Ian

From looking at your website I see you can offer packages for projects? Basically to remove the confusion from my end and avoid electrocuting myself, would the package arrive ready to be installed or is there some assembly required?

Many thanks
Grant


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## batteryshow (Nov 4, 2008)

They don't want to do any retail .
So remind the chance to like our kind of manufactories to do business ,hehe !


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## LiFeBATT_UK (Jun 2, 2008)

Grant_NZ said:


> Hi Ian
> 
> From looking at your website I see you can offer packages for projects? Basically to remove the confusion from my end and avoid electrocuting myself, would the package arrive ready to be installed or is there some assembly required?
> 
> ...


Hi Grant,

Sorry for the late reply. The modules themselves are complete units, so you connect your power cables and simple serial link the data cables into the battery protection module and away you go. The 15 modules in my own vehicle took 3 hours from opening the boxes to turning the wheels.

And by the way, yes we do sell retail, every day of the week. Current delivery time is four weeks if I don't have it in stock. We currently have 8 pcs of 4810-HPS, 50pcs of 7210-HPS, 18pcs of 108-HPS and 21pcs of 14410-HPS in stock at our UK distribution centre. We can Air Feight within 4 weeks a I have containers arriving every 8 weeks.

Kind regards,

Ian


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