# Anybody else heard about "battery Life Saver"



## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I have seen a lot of products claiming to work, but no 'real' testimonials from anyone I know personally. My understanding is that chemical or high-frequency zapping MAY break down some of the surface sulfanization, but the crystals re-grow pretty fast.

I was considering trying something when my pack is a couple years old.... it will be interesting to see if anyone here (real users) have rejuvenated a pack....


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## Gman (Jun 19, 2009)

Dan,
This product claims to be different. As far as I know based off of all the comments I read earlier today all the rejuvenators are either chemcvial additives or they use electrical pulses and it seemed to me that they are to be used when the batteries start to fade or are already dead. The pulse ones get rid of some of the sulfation and the sulfation it can't turn back to it's previous state falls to the bottom and eventually causes a short but the "Battery Life Saver" uses radio waves and is attached to the batteries all the time. They make them for single or strings of batteries up to 156VDC for approx. $180.00. I thought I read something about tripling the life of Pba batteries. If that is true and it can be used on the new Pbc (lead-carbon) batteries supposedly coming out in the near future from either Firefly or Axion which both claim will be last 1000 cycles or more then current Pba's then that combo might make EV's with Pbc's and the BLS capaable of 3000 cycles? Please correct me if this doesn't complete sense. This is my first thread so I am a newb and look forward to building an EV in the future. 

Kent


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Save your money for good quality batteries.....


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

Coley said:


> Save your money for good quality batteries.....


I'd check reviews before dissmissing this product. I've read many reviews online plus talked to a couple of people who sware by this product in the Solar Industry. Infact one local company requires BLS for all installs.

YMMV

Link to PDF testing of BLS
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/newsl...De-Sulfator Test Results for Tom's System.pdf


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

Hmm, appears to be the same as my BC-2 except my BC-2 can handle any voltage battery or pack up to roughly 48v,

A significant amount of higher frequency "radio" waves cannot be sucessfully transmitted directly into the battery. So this device cannot opperate in that way, it must induce them by using a lower frequency pulse typically around 1khz.

I just bought a $94 BC-2 from solar converters and am happy with its initial results, my resting voltage on each of my 8v batteries has moved up a little more than 0.1v in around 3 days and this is on an almost completely depleted pack. Time will tell if they come back enough to use daily again. Check my SG it seems to be moving up as well albeat rather slowly.

Now I will have to find out if they offer a VARIABLE voltage product so I can treat any of my packs not just one set voltage.

Thanx for the link, another potential device to have laying around if I am ever in the market again.
http://www.batterylifesaver.com/

Cheers
Ryan



Nomad said:


> I'd check reviews before dissmissing this product. I've read many reviews online plus talked to a couple of people who sware by this product in the Solar Industry. Infact one local company requires BLS for all installs.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> ...


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

See my above post...

Snake oil...


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

This seemed like a good idea, but I'm skeptical after looking at their online catalog.

What gets me about it is that they have units that go up to 156 volts. For example, they list a 72v one and cite the primay usage is for NEVs. 



> For 72 Volt NEV's like the Gem car by Chrysler and Think by Ford as well as 72 Volt Solar Systems. Ideally mounted full time to constantly keep the batteries in optimum condition or can be used in conjunction with a battery charger.
> Comes with 3/8 lugs for attachment to the terminals, others on special request.


Here's what gets me though. On a single battery, yes, I can see something like this working. Ressonation into the battery box causes crystals to break up. It's a simple concept and assuming your batteries are watered properly, and the crystals are not just mechanically broken (i.e. it's not acting like a paint can mixer, but is actually causing resonation and breaking crystals at the molecular level), this could work. But how do you attach it to a whole pack of batteries? I've yet to read about anyone using a single 72 volt battery for their NEV, and I see no way in which you could put one terminal on one end of the pack, the other terminal on the other end, and somehow transmit radio waves to everything in between, unless it's just generating them like a radio station and broadcasting them. 

If it's not doing that, it couldn't work. If it IS doing that, then there's other problems. Why should I buy a higher voltage unit? It's going to produce the same frequency of waves, no matter how many batteries are in the pack. The only thing higher voltage could offer would be extended range, but this is never addressed in the descriptions. It also doesn't seem to take into account that the packs may not be all in one place, and specifically mentions that you don't have to have more than one. 

It also assumes that the battery chemistry is the same for every flooded lead-acid battery. While it's easy to verify they have the same chemicals (lead, sulfer, etc). they crystals won't bond the same way in different concentrations, which would make them resonate at a different frequency.

I also find it courious that it states 
a) you should have it hooked up all the time
b) it will deplete the battery
c) this is okay, because your batteries won't be harmed by full discharge thanks to the device.

Yet they do not provide any information about how much current it draws, which seems kind of important in pretty much any battery powered scenario. And if you can discharge down to 100% with no damage, why would you ever need a new battery? This would just make them work forevery by continually freeing the sulfur. Eventually the lead plates would wear out I suppose, but this claim in particular seems a little too good to be true.

I'd say if you're seriously interested in it, drop them a line and see if they can answer those concerns. If they can't, I'd call that a red flag.


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

rillip3 said:


> Yet they do not provide any information about how much current it draws, which seems kind of important in pretty much any battery powered scenario. And if you can discharge down to 100% with no damage, why would you ever need a new battery? This would just make them work forevery by continually freeing the sulfur. Eventually the lead plates would wear out I suppose, but this claim in particular seems a little too good to be true.
> 
> I'd say if you're seriously interested in it, drop them a line and see if they can answer those concerns. If they can't, I'd call that a red flag.


Are their claims 100% of what they say? I doubt it. 
But emperical data has shown it does work on some level and even if it was only extending the life by 10% or 100 cycles thats worth it for 100$ in my book.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

Nomad said:


> Are their claims 100% of what they say? I doubt it.
> But emperical data has shown it does work on some level and even if it was only extending the life by 10% or 100 cycles thats worth it for 100$ in my book.


Fair enough, but they don't provide any sort of emperical data, just wonder claims. The only emperical data I've seen is 0.1v by rmay above. Less than impressive after three days. I searched it out some and I could only find one review where it brought a 6.2v battery back up to 6.34. This is still only .1v, but a little more impressive as it's about 5% increase. He indicated that 6.2 was an 80% charge and now it's back up to peak, but that math doesn't add up to me.

I see a lot of annecdotes and maybes, but very little hard data. There are a lot of sites out there designed to look independent, but mysteriously have the exact same wording as the main page as well (if you can't get real viral marketing, fake it!).

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, I think I'd just want answers to some of those critiques before I'd throw down a C-note on it.


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## rmay635703 (Oct 23, 2008)

rillip3 said:


> The only emperical data I've seen is 0.1v by rmay above. Less than impressive after three days.


Actually a .1v resting voltage change is VERY impressive especially on my 8 volt trojans
12.65V 100% 8.43V
12.45V 75% 8.30V
12.24V 50% 8.16V
12.06V 25% 8.04V
11.89V or less
Discharged

All my batteries were around 8.06-8.12 volts resting which is effectively junk, they are now all up above 8.16 volts with several around 8.25 volts, looking at the chart that is around a doubling of capacity going from 25% capacity up to about 50-60% capacity.

Also my desulphator is NOT a battery life saver; 
mine is a Solar Converters BD-2 not the product sold by the so called battery life saver. It is better in my mind since I can set it to operate on any voltage battery from 10v-60v (really that ends up being 12v-48/54v)

My feeling is all of these devices (at least the ones that work) use the same pulse concept they are also the same as the little DIY desulphator alastair came up with over a decade ago.

They do work but slowly and only on mechanically good batteries, I have had better results over time with the little desulphator I built but its hit or miss from battery to battery. I am hoping this BD-2 is more reliable than my home built units which seemed to burn out after a while (or I left them in the rain  )

Right now one of my batteries in the string has come up .2v resting, I will have to wait several days or possibly a week more before I gain another set of data points but one of my batteries is coming back quicker, one is still only up .1v and some are in the middle. The SG increases are different even within the individual cells of each battery.

After I have given it time I will see what I end up with, at this point my pack is at least usuable again, when it sat for so many months during repairs my safely usuable range was only about 8 miles before batteries started dropping very low. Now I would estimate I gained a few miles back making it capable of doing the in town tasks I normally need the car for.

Unless someone owns a lifesaver it is questionable how functional it is and how different it is from another box. Someone out there would have to hook one up to a pack with a shunt and tune an O-scope on it to see the little pulses and at what frequency, as I said earlier, you can't send radio wave frequencies THROUGH a battery, you can send them in but they are absorbed and do nothing. That isn't to say this device doesn't send out 1khz pulses like every other unit though.

We would need to find a patent description, it may shed a little more light on the subject if they are really selling a "different" product.

Considering this is my 3rd go around on this ancient set of trojans back from the dead and considering how many bloody miles are on them I will be delighted if they come back and stay a while again. (read through my previous posts, this is not the 1st time I have brought back this pack and I am the 3rd owner of the batteries, that should say something about outside the box battery maintenance)

Cheers
Ryan


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## nobrush (Jan 23, 2014)

Coley said:


> Save your money for good quality batteries.....


What are good quality batteries in your opinion? The battery life save does have a money back guaruntee so I may plunk down for one to test it out. Better than putting down $2k for a new pack of 16 6V's.

Also, I was reading your page and was kinda confused- you said that you knew better "I used a larger deep cycle battery as the 6th battery in the set." but later you said you were looking for used batteries. Did you mean physically larger, the rating was larger, or...? 

I just had a battery short I think (filling cap popped off - incredibly loud!!) and am going to put in at least one used battery.


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## nobrush (Jan 23, 2014)

I think someone was looking for the patent info - http://www.google.com/patents/US7374839


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