# Range Ever build thread



## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi all!
According to Plamenator from Kostov, my motor and controller should ship next week so starting a build thread is in order.
This is my first build and i have decided to convert a Range Rover ym 92.
There is good place for all needed components (exept motor) and working under car is easy.My donor is a two door diesel model with hd springs and manual transmission.
My motor is Kostov dual 11" with Soliton1 controller. I have an extra zf 4spd automatic that i will use. That way i can use same adapter and coupler to other cars (BMW,Jaguar) as well. I will keep tc for now, it will removed later if necessary.Trans does not have computer,it´s light, simple and strong.
I have not ordered batteries yet, but would use 85xTS 160 if budget allows.That would give me reasonable range and with opportunity charging at work they should last for a long time.I might have to start with smaller pack but i will worry about that when motor is in place.
Range Rover is on a bit heavy side but i have a few spots on my mind where weight can be taken out.This will be mostly done after car is converted. 
Since this is my first try on this subject i might find that things do not go my way, plan will then be adjusted and hopefully finished without too many delays. I expect to have car assembled in couple of months from motors arrival. Adapter and coupler come from Kostov. I made the drawings, big question mark there.
I will keep you posted and hope to get assistance when i hit the wall.
Greetings, Harri


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## dimitri (May 16, 2008)

85 TS160's ???? Ouch 

Are you building a school bus? 

It would take lots of room and add lots of weight to an already heavy car. Are there any hills in your commute? 

Don't forget to keep them warm, which would take even more room for insulation and heating elements.

DUAL 11" Kostov???? Ouch again 

Are you planning to tow other cars with it? 

Sorry for poking fun , just seems a bit out there, maybe I missed intended use of the car?


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, it´s a heavy car, needs a lot of batteries to run and motors are so cheap (similar gas engine).I figured that bigger is better! Might have been wrong, it´s a tight fit .
Harri


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## Tesseract (Sep 27, 2008)

glaurung said:


> ...
> My motor is Kostov dual 11" with Soliton1 controller.


Good choices! 




glaurung said:


> I have not ordered batteries yet, but would use 85xTS 160 if budget allows.


I would consider less cells but of a larger Ah size... say 68 of the 200Ah... because they will be able to deliver a higher current safely and you won't be anywhere near the voltage limit of the Soliton1 (which, with 85 cells, you would if you charged them to more than 4,0V each). I think the new 200Ah cells are about the same size as the old 160Ah cells, anyway.

Also, while it is widely known that a motor wound for a higher voltage and lower current is more efficient, it does not seem to be widely known that switching losses in an IGBT-based PWM controller go up exponentially with voltage but only linearly with current, or the exact opposite case, so there is a trade-off between the two. Of course, too low of a pack voltage requires huge currents from the batteries more often (just ask dimitri!). A happy medium for LFP and the Soliton1 seems be a pack voltage in the range of 60 to 75 cells.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks Tesseract.
I have limited knowledge of voltage and amperage connections, i will adjust my pack as advised (when i get that far).
BTW motor was ordered when plan was to convert 750L Beamer. Same weight with less electronics chanced my mind to try Rangie first.
Harri


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

glaurung said:


> BTW motor was ordered when plan was to convert 750L Beamer. Same weight with less electronics chanced my mind to try Rangie first.
> Harri


Ah, Plamen informed me about your project a while ago and told that you may need help with the motor coupler and adapter.

This will be a great EV! Have fun building it!

Btw. Just to get a feeling for the adapter parts, here is how the parts for my BMW look like:


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks for the pictures, Crodriver. Looks very OEM
I had difficulties understanding taperlock assembly, but after some googling i found suitable construction and local industrial parts seller for measurements. Pictures will follow when i have parts in my hands.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

glaurung said:


> Thanks for the pictures, Crodriver. Looks very OEM
> I had difficulties understanding taperlock assembly, but after some googling i found suitable construction and local industrial parts seller for measurements. Pictures will follow when i have parts in my hands.


You know that the taperlock has to be heatet up and pressed onto the motor output shaft?

From now on I'm using spindled shafts because it's easier (and more precise) to make adapter parts

The dual motor has a high torque potential in combination with that many lithium batteries and a Soltion. The physical parts have to handle a lot torque so they have to be made very precise. Keep an eye on that.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi all. 
I just received pictures of my motor prior shipping from Kostov. Will post one here since someone mentioned that pics are worth a long post
For CroDriver: My bolt-on taperlock should hold 1300Nm, might cope with mildly spirited driving. This will of course be seen later.Or not.
Old engine pic for comparison
Harri


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi again!
I have been making progress all the time but since my pictures are in wifes camera, story sometimes delays.
Engine,transmission and transaxle are removed.So are fuel tank and cooling components.Chassis and engine bay are not cleaned yet and there are still some ice related brackets to be shaved off.
Big news is that motor and controller have arrived yesterday! Thanks Plamen! 
Adapter plates and coupling seem to be perfect, taperlock was ordered a month ago and is 400km from here,in Finland, still not arrived
When taperlock is in my hands i will align motor with autotransmission. It is done differently than with manuals.I will show details when possible.
Some pictures are attached and i hope to make good leap ahead this week, should be able to use one full day on Range project.
Harri


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## Bowser330 (Jun 15, 2008)

lots of progress and photos to document! Thank you and good luck to you!


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi all,
Time for a little update.
I got a wrong taperlock from first distributor. Since aligning had to wait i decided to trial fit motor and transmission.
I had a lot of trouble with making holes and threads. I decided to use handtools and it was really bad decision. When i had struggled for couple days i finally moved bench drill from my woodshop. It was a pain to carry but made everything much easier. 
When motor was in engine bay it was not straight. I had taken a BMW bellhousing! I was wondering why it looked so hugeI thought about swapping to Rovers but because Beamers is bolted 360degrees and Rover did not have lover part i figured to just rotate it to get motor in position. It was ofcourse only a matter of looks, but wanted to do it so i wouldn´t have to answer questions about it. 
Took two days.
Kostov has bars running on both sides and i made brackets from there to original motor bushes. I have location now and weld and finish them when motor is out.
Taperlock from other seller came from Sweden in few days and i took motor assembly out.
When i was beginning alingment i found out that hole in adapter plates is too small for torque converter. I did not measure it when making drawings i think.
After six hours on angle grinder hole is now ok.Should have drilled a line of holes and cleaned that up, would have saved hours.
And broke thread cutting tool to one coupler bolt hole. Four hours on mini-grinder.
Coupler is now bolted and torque converter is running true. Tried different positions to find best one. 
Started to center bellhousing to adapter. Needs more drilling and i have to make triangular fine adjustment system to get it right.
I have done horrible amount of work because not thinking and it seems that i have forgotten everthing i learned when i was customizing cars in my youth. I really hope that i have now found the right mental state to start making progress, not mistakes.
I still have my first car. Guess the make and model
Regards, Harri


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Good news at last, first electric drive today! After much small difficulties like leaking trans, wrong measurements and such Rangie was driven out for first time since 20.th of may.Three starter batteries and start cables were able to give first sign of ev grin. Some small adjustment to mounts and then to electric installations
Harri


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## TX_Dj (Jul 25, 2008)

Harri,

Please don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way. I like your conversion, and it's progressing nicely. I thought for sure you wouldn't fit that double-kostov in the engine bay, and it looks like it just barely fits.

But here is my issue. Torque Converter? Seriously?

By the time you've acheived enough RPM to engage the TC, you're outside the range where a series DC motor makes its maximum torque, and adding inefficiency to the system.

If I read earlier posts correctly, you were looking for the most efficient ways to move this beast...

The purpose of the torque converter is two-fold: 1) It keeps an ICE from stalling at a stop, and 2) It allows the ICE to rev over idle to a point where it starts making torque.

A series DC motor *should* stall at a stop, because of no voltage/current to the motor, and it *should* be permitted to start under load, because maximum torque comes from 0 RPM.

Go ahead and drive it around once it's all finished, but please do consider taking the effort to remove the TC and see what the difference is in the behavior of the vehicle. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi Tx_Dj,
efficiency is not very high on my list, just see the donor.
I am aware of downside of tc but will try trans as it is. I may or may not idle motor and tc can be taken out if it causes trouble. 
On test drive without controller car moved slowly with 24volts, i would say that rews were not much different from ice on idle. With ice tc had a stall speed of under 2000rpms. My driving is mostly on highway so it may not be a problem.
When trans leaked i looked at five speed manual i have and it is easy swap if autobox will not do what it should.Later model zf is controlled by electronics and should be good for no tc use but i dont have any of those.
Harri


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## procupine14 (Mar 17, 2010)

Wow. This thing is HUGE! I really like the project. That would be my suggestion to just use the trans with the TC as it sits and if it works for you then it works for you. If not It won't be that hard to swap it out or just take the TC out of the setup. 

Cheers!


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## dragster (Sep 3, 2008)

Hi
Recommend you do not try running the trans with out a converter as it need it to pass the fluid thru it and back into the trans. Send converter to TCI Racing transmission PH 888 776 9824 and have them lock it out. They will cut it open and weld it so it dose not work but fluid will come out of the trans and go thru the converter and back into the transmission. 

http://www.discbrakesrus.com/make/fordtruck/electriccar.htm


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Heips all!
Just a little update, photos will follow in future.
I have got to the point that i am not repairing and dismantling thins but actually starting to ge things on their places for good.
i just paid the shipping for my batteries,68 200Ah TS, so i try to assemble cables, fuses, contactor and controller before truck is here.
I have painted the motorbay(?) and will bend remaining parts for shielding and mounting ev components so that they are safe from road dust and water.
Toddshotrod build has given me some ideas how i could add some advanced engieering to my build, so i will cnc-machine some parts to get away from "use what you have" look. Allthough that is what i have done so far
I do not know if i should go for H.R Giger Alien look or make natural forms in spirit of Range Rover on the wild. Would not like to do just a bracket for mounting something.
I`ll add pictures when i get them to my computer.
Harri
Ps. Nobody guessing on the link of my first car?


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi all!
Batteries arrived from GWL Power friday but very little has been done since last update.I have been busy elsewhere and now got a nasty flu
I have figured out battery placements and other component locations. I will order cables and accessories when i am well enough. While gaining my strenght i try to do first charge on batteries, i will then be ready to test drive when all is connected.
I decided not to make battery boxes around car, but to install all to back of the car and fuel tank box.When i get car inspected and moving i can design more balanced placement for them. But i must admit that i was supriced how much batteries i had bought.
I can really understand why people want to use small cells for bigger packs, these chunks are quite hard to fit. I`ll get one too when i can afford it.
Sorry pictures come later again.......
Regards, Harri


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

My Disco has a ton of room for batteries under the floor where mufflers, gas tank, air compressor, currently reside.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

12 inch high space?


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## Batterypoweredtoad (Feb 5, 2008)

Outside of the frame rails it's about 7 1/2" from the floor to the bottom of the frame rails. Depending on location you get a few more inches of height between the frame rails. My 99 Discovery has factory running boards that sit a few inches lower than the frame for a total of maybe 10", but I don't think 12" vertical is possible.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi!
It has been a while since update. I could have finished by now but have not had the energy to really do progress.
I got a good boost last tuesday when my brothers and his friend VW Vento was inspected and approved as electric! I was there too to make my face familiar for officials.
I have trial fitted batteries to boot area. No room for groceries any more
I have all high voltage cables installed from motor to rear of the car where batteries are. Will do rest of the cables tomorrow and then finish mounting batteries. After that i have to do wiring for Soliton controls, some shielding on motor bay, paint and rust proof on chassis and install interior and gauges. I should be ready for inspection at the end of the week and have my plates next week if there are no repairs ordered.
Sorry for lack of photos, try to improve.
Harri


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi!
Here comes few old photos from previous updates. Next ones should be from more or less finished conversion (i hope)


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Looks good! But such a shame that you have chosen this huge Rangie as a donor 

But when you get bored of the Rangie you can just swap the EV parts into another, smaller car  That would be a serious EV racer

Btw - since you have a powerful, excellent, ahhh- simply the best controller D) and a big lithium pack, you should run your motor at 12V a few days to breake it in. This is a advice I got from Mike, a very expirienced EV racer. Unfortunatley, he gave me that advice AFTER I fried my dual Kostov. Also, make sure that both motors have cables from the controller with EXACTLY the same length - unbalanced current distribution can kill a dual motor. 

Btw. You should hurry up to finish the car before the winter comes in. The cold part of the year (especially in Finland) is not very good for breaking in Lithium cells.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi Cro,
concratulations on you first race weekend, it seemed to be a good first run.Would of course have been better without fried motor but smoke from tires is allways a good singn of things to come.
Thanks for the advice on breaking in, i will put my motor on right away.
I have factory cables connecting motors, have to check them for lenght. Maybe i should work out connection like you have.That must be very equal.
Batteries will be insulated and warmed before it gets cold.Rear area of the Range Rover is quite simple in construction and i am confident that it will be easy to keep warm.
About the donor choice i can tell you that other cars would have been just the same weight.Only two wheel drive and not so high.If this failes i transfer components to saloon, propably old Jaguar xj, and see if that goes further. If this goes well i will start planning sportier conversion. Maybe Jaguar xjs with lightweight everything or big atv with big motor (maybe just one?) and aerodynamic shell. But i really dont have to go as fast as you are going, i am not in a hurry anymore
Thanks, Harri


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Update.
Conversion is now ready.I still have some work to do that i consider general stuff. I did short drive and all went ok, I have now batteries out and top balanced. When i have glued all insulations on passenger compartment i will install batteries back and start test driving for real.Since last update i have changed gearbox to manual and upgraded suspension to cope with weight. Also a lot of old car issues had to be taken care of.
I do not have power brakes,power steering or dc/dc converter but those will be installed during testing.
With 500amp limit Rangie(parallel nominal amps) moved very well, clutchless shifting does take time if needed. Second gear seemed to be fine on low speed, i think ok for city driving.Third might be good for bigger roads.On fourth or fift gear speed would be above limits, exept Germany of course. 
I will post details on performance when i have break-in period done and changed to normal settings. I have a feeling that Rangie will outrun all that Land Rover has released under classic badge.
Sorry, no pictures.
Harri


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## Overlander23 (Jun 15, 2009)

Congratulations on getting up and out! That's a big step! Looking forward to more road reports... I used to have a classic, and now a P38.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi,
some update from test drives.
I have now over 300km as electric and had no ev related incidents.
On first charge i drove over 100km and batteries were at 3.34.
Nominal settings of motor 200v 500amp seems to be ok, but i have to change gears. I might be able to drive on second most of the time but gearbox whines a lot above 50kmh.One more reason to drop gearbox, more on that later.
Lack of heating has kept me from driving more and i did not have 12volt charging either. I just assembled original alternator and power steering with pulley on front shaft. I have small propane torch heated oil cooler that circulates water to heater core, but it is way too small do any real heat.
My self made pulley has to be replaced, but i can now do driving in dark hours as well.And use wipers. I really only need better heater and i should be able to test if i can get to work and back, thats about 90km so should be no problem.More of a mental challence. And i can charge while working.
I have not driven over 100km/h since without power steering it feels very unstable at that speed, i can try bit faster on next drive.

So, mostly cosmetic work to be done after i have heat and then no excuses on driving old diesel .

Harri


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## GerhardRP (Nov 17, 2009)

glaurung said:


> Harri
> Ps. Nobody guessing on the link of my first car?


Saab 9x
Gerhard


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Right country, wrong make


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## evlowrider (Jul 23, 2009)

glaurung said:


> Right country, wrong make


*
*Koenigsegg?!?! 


Just finished reading your build thread. Nice job 

Pete.


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## Overlander23 (Jun 15, 2009)

I ended wiring two ceramic core heaters into my heater box. You may have read this entry (http://adventure-ev.com/?p=320)

I briefly tested it with my 205v nominal setup. The pack is really producing more like 220v most of the time. But initial results were quite positive, though I've only had a chance to run it for about 30 seconds. Quite hot... hotter than the stock setup... and of course, relatively instantaneous.

Hopefully the setup will work reliably in continuous operation...


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi all, it has been a while since last update.
I have a Webasto Thermotop5 heater installed, took three weeks and two machines to get it working.But now i have heat, only downside is that Range Rovers heater core is not made for -20c temperatures.So i had to drive few weeks with my old smoker waiting for warmer days.
Car does fine on cold but not me
I also installed vacuum pump assembly my friend ordered from china.
And bigger rear speakers.
I did finally get the car inspected and approved so it is now officially ready and road legal!
I did gain more weight that i hoped for, Rangie now weights 5180lbs.I have not done any extra modifications besides removing ice related parts.I will try to change some easily made stuff to lighter ones.And i really should move batteries towards front of the car, it is on max allowed weight on rear axle.
So far i have pulled 4 cars out of the snow, if i had converted a sedan i would not have had too many miles on it yet.It has been quite a snowy winter.
There might be other updates too but i cant remember more now. I will do some work on interior and finishing on electrics to get some pictures for you.
Regards, Harri


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

glaurung said:


> So far i have pulled 4 cars out of the snow


Hi. Would have loved to see the expression on their faces when you told them your car runs on batteries  

Any more pics/videos of the car running?

JR


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, i did not tell  Two were friends so they knew allready.


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## JRoque (Mar 9, 2010)

glaurung said:


> Well, i did not tell  Two were friends so they knew allready.


Classic difference between well mannered Europeans and us Americans. I'd be laughing and pointing for a good 10 mins before making them listen to my conversion story and agree with me that electric cars will soon take over and they better like it... then maybe help them out of the ditch.

Tell us about your top speed, longest drive (in time), electric torque vs how it worked when ICEd, etc.

JR


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

JRoque said:


> Tell us about your top speed, longest drive (in time), electric torque vs how it worked when ICEd, etc.
> 
> JR


So far i have not tried anything extreme, when it warms up and roads are free of snow and ice i will do some performance testing. 
Longest drive without charging has been 68miles with few stops on middle to do shopping.
On one day i was not going to drive to work with ev, but Mercedes did not start in -25c so i had to take Rangie.I had 40miles done allready, then drove to work,31miles, six hours charging and then back. I drove 100miles that day and got home without controller shutting me down.I did drive very gently on way home, it was in middle of the night so nobody was annoyed.Voltmeter reading was under 190volts (65xTS200) so i think i had very little amps left.
So far i have driven speed of 75mph, but hope to break 100 when roads dry out.That is what ice versions do.
I have been driving Range Rovers for over ten years and since they have quite good torque i cant say that i am amazed by torque now.It starts smoothly on every gear, but to keep up with traffic i use gears.I lost a clutch on conversion but am slowly getting gear changes to succeed.On heavy snow motor stalls if on too big gear.Dont know why, i have to learn how to use log file on Soliton. But i have all gears and reduction too, so wheels will keep spinning for sure.With snowchains tire might not spin but wheels will.Driving in bad conditions is easier because you can hear what is going on and torque feels more constant.I have to try some rock climbing this summer to find out if i am right.
I have settings on 1000 motor amps and 600 battery amps.Throttle is about 1500 whateverunit that is.Ampmeter on battery side rarely shows over 400amps. Have to figure out how to get fun out of the pack
Overall, i enjoy driving very much, i think that 4x4 cars make exellent ev´s and this kind of proofs that you can convert S-Mercedes,Cadillac ´59 or just any big pile of iron and enjoy non-emission driving. 
Smaller would of course be more economical and green, but it is a step to right direction anyway. 
Regards, Harri


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Just wanted to say this is a enjoyable thread to read. Keep us updated with your progress. It sounds like an awseome beast to drive!


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks, over 4000 electric kilometres so far
Only setback has been charger, number two is on duty as i write this. Warranty has been working great,no complaints there.
I have changed to summer tires, now running with 255/70/16
Amp consumption has dropped about ten prosents from winter now that is warmer.

Harri


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## poprock (Apr 29, 2010)

Looking thru old threads and saw your first car. A Volvo P1800 with major body modifications?


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi Poprock,
i had allready forgotten that picture. That is my old ´69 Volvo 121 or Amazon as it is called here. If you talk to old gentlemen in Finland just about everyone has owned one. But i did keep mine. It has been chopped, chassis has been widened 20cm and front and rear are both streched. Rover v8 with four chrome-plated Webers and mild upgrades.Rear axle is from 124 Volvo to get disk brakes.Suspension is what race suspensions were at those days. Maybe i should convert that as my next project?
On Rangie, i have few miles to 20 000km and no major repairs has been needed. I did have a bad day week ago when i was not thinking. So i had a big trailer on hook and headed to city. I left the trailer and took quite a long scenery road and drove a lot of zigzag when in town. On way home i took a longer way and 15 km before home controller reduced power for low voltage.I did limb 3-4 km and then i had to call wife to tow me home.
So that cost me two cells so far, but after week of tweaking cells seem to be on line. Those two cells are replaced.I installed Cell Balancing Modules from GWL power and that saved me from doing all balancing in manual.So now i know how far is too far! I must sometimes drive the same route in ice car and see how long i drove but i guess 150km is close, 35 first had trailer included.
I hope to return on my regular plug and go driving now that experiment are done
Regards, Harri


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## flynn23 (Jul 2, 2013)

Any updates? 

I've recently joined and this thread and your project have been big inspirations to me. I'm a long time Rover owner myself (97 D90 with lots of mods) and inherited a 93 Jeep Cherokee that will be my EV platform. I intend to use it for rock crawls and trail rides, so I'm using your build and some others as prototypes to get the right balance of components. I was most curious if you were using any regenerative braking controls to increase the battery.

Excellent work and dedication on your part to the project. Thanks for sharing.


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## glaurung (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi, thanks for the compliments. No, i have no regen. DC motors usually have no such. Since i mostly drive on open roads i would not benefit from regen. I have some updates on garage page. Rangie has been my main vehicle after it was completed years ago. Few failures i have had are user related and therefore i believe EVs to be very reliable.
Good luck with your conversion.
Regards, Harri


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