# three wheeler



## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

hello fellas

I've been thinking from a long time to register, it's done, i've made the first step .

I haven't speak english for a long time, so sorry for the mistakes i'll make.

I aim to build my own vehicle for my daily comutes, i'm fed up of giving 50€ to TOTAL each weeks in filling up my oil burner...

So, i'm starting the building of a three wheeler.

In first time, i though of converting my car to electric drive, but here (in europe), you have to get the authorization of the car maker to pass the final exam wich let you go on the roads. It's something impossible to get...

But all is not lost, the european legislation do not need crash tests for vehicle as motor bikes or three wheeler. Great news! This is why I choose to build the three wheeler.

This is my actual achievement


















Some friend came to see the advance of the project.
So Today i've cleaned up the room. I've replaced the cardboards of the batteries and chargeur to show them what it'll look like

In the video you can see how two people are getting inside: it's the mess ^^. I don't know if it's possible to put directly a video in a post, here the link http://www.ats-design.net/public/vehiculeselectriques/images/tourner_autour_2.wmv

The chassis has been modified since the photos. I'v remove the little cube at the back. Initially, i've planned to use a L91 ADC motor, but i've found that mars motor are really cheaper (with shippement). I think to place them on the front wheels. They will be in serie to get an electronic differential. 
For budget reason, the first battery pack will be lead gel. 6 units of 12V 105 ah.

So, here my "litlle" introduce ^^.

If you have any comments or advices, please, go on.

best regards and happy new year 2009


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've got some quiet moment (very busy these times), I take the opportunity to post some news.

As motors are going to be at the front wheels, I can shorten the chassis by nearly 30 cm (11 inches)










I've received the ampmeter, the potbox, and more important, I received a hub from a 1987 FIAT panda. 


























With it i'll be able to make the perfect hub for the three wheeler ^_^, but before starting cutting metal, I'll have to cut a lot of paper to make some attempts


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

Welcome aboard.

Your project looks good and progress is being made.

Your English is just fine and glad to see your post.


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## rctous (Jun 18, 2008)

very nice it is coming along great,, any sketches on how it may look when complete? Will it have a body ? or will it just be kept open? Fiberglass , steel??? definately keep posting this is very interesting.

B


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## ClintK (Apr 27, 2008)

My wife is from Germany, and she's told me about their crazy regulations. That'll be a sweet little ride. What top speed are you shooting for?

So you're going to use a single motor linked to both front wheels? Any thought about doing it like the Aptera and using a chain driven rear wheel?


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

This project is somewhat like what I have been thinking. I have a Honda Goldwing Swingarm, that is the rear drive wheel. It has the gears inside the hub, and will function exactly like what is pictured here. I was thinking of cutting a small pickup off somewhere behind the cab, and putting the swingarm at that point, leaving room for 4 batteries on each side of the swingarm.

Rest of the pickup cab would be modified for Aero design. Have a 500 amp starter-generator for a motor. 

Be watching this thread closely. Going up to Florida in a couple weeks, to see about shipping a bunch of tools and stuff down, so I can start playing.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Very cool!!

I like the full roll cage.

hmmm...I wonder what the air drag CD would be if all you enclosed was the electronic components to protect them?

It is a motorcyle after all, and you could always get by wearing helmits and faceshields.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Thank you for your answers



rctous said:


> very nice it is coming along great,, any sketches on how it may look when complete? Will it have a body ? or will it just be kept open? Fiberglass , steel??? definately keep posting this is very interesting.


I'm working on it 
but I wait to finish the chassis to know exactly what is the space use before starting the body. It will be in sandwich composite (the goal is to use it as a chassis)



ClintK said:


> So you're going to use a single motor linked to both front wheels?


No, it will have one motor per wheel. They're going to be plug in serie. With that, I wil lhave an electronic diff.
I try tu put the maximum of weight at the front.


It will be entirely close, I hope to have a shape as near as a tear drop shape. I will have some troubles with aptera ^^
Here, in europe, it will be considered as a proper three wheeler, not a motorcycle, the regulation has some differences between that two type (the most important: you don't need helmet).


Today I received a lot of stuff, I spent a big part of the day in car to pickup the items in different deliverers (a high rated CO² day today >_<)
With these items too, there was some damages...They acheived to damage the bonnet which is in steel...


















I received hubs too (from a toyota aygo), the speedometer (I'll have some troubles with it) and the 350Z taillights.


























rhââ lovely 

And most importantly, I've finish the chassis welding. wohoo!
Next step: making suspensions fixations, making the engines matrix, buying a rear door of a clio III. I hope the bank account hemoragy will be finish shortly >_____<

A would like to thank Jean Yves from ACUS SERVICE from bordeaux. He sent me (freely) a FNR gear shifter from an electric peugeot partner. Thank you, I owne you a big one.


















As I said here is the back of the speedometer, it'll cause me a lot of troubles >_<


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yesterday I didn't see that the 350Z taillights where damaged too, but the ebayer refund me in the two hour I send him an email (very rare this type of guy! ^^)

I could finish welding the underchassis, It was "easy" to put it in vertical position alone. I estimate its weight around 90 kg (180 lbs?). As this step is over, I can put the chassis on the floor and start thinking about its ground clearance.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've started making the fixations of rear suspension. I hope I can finish it tomorrow. Next I'll buy two front suspension of renault clio 1998, with them, I'll only have to make the upper triangle. 

here is a picture with me (1M75) to have an idea of the scale.










It may appear high, but with batteries inside, it'll go near the ground (I hope to ^^)


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Rear suspension: done!










I wanted to start the making of front suspension, but the cold outside keep me inside my garage ^^. So I've made the fixations for the driver seat, I'll not fall on the ground anymore when I'll want to sit on it ^^.


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

Love your design, I hope to get started on a similar design soon. Hope mine looks as good as yours.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I hope o it too  When did you plan to start it?
FWD or RWD? trike or reverse trike?

Today i've started working on the front










there is enough room under the spring to let pass the steering column, yes!


















I've taken advantage to make the steering wheel fixations










I jump inside the seat to feel the ergonomy, when I realize that the rack rail is mounted in front of the hub (initialy mounted behind the hub in the donor car), the result is when I turn the steering right, the rack rail "turns" left >_<

It's a stupid mistake, I don't think about it...the solutions, buy a rack rail from an english car (right drive) or fixing a wheel to make it turn in the right direction, or placing the rack rail behind the hubs. But with the last solution, I'll have it in the middle of my foot...










Tomorrow I'll try to place it under the chassis, but I'm not confident on it because I'll have the steering column in my foot...


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## Jason Lattimer (Dec 27, 2008)

I found a 6kw 13" hub motor on Kelly's website. I think I will be building a rwd reverse trike with it. Hope I can make it super low weight with some lithiums and get about a 100 mile range I hope.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Don't beat me up on this because I can't see your wheel spindles in any of your photos and may be a dumb idea...

But couldn't you take the wheel spindle from the left side of your EV and put it on the right side and visa-versa and put the rack in like you originally planned?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

tj4fa said:


> Don't beat me up on this because I can't see your wheel spindles in any of your photos and may be a dumb idea...
> 
> But couldn't you take the wheel spindle from the left side of your EV and put it on the right side and visa-versa and put the rack in like you originally planned?


I won't beat you up 
It's what I've done and here the result!

The problem don't come from the spindle but from the rack, originally, it's placed behind the wheel (if you look the car at side), there is a little excrescence on the spindle which is attach on the rack, if I swap the spindle from left to right (and vice versa) the excrescence on the spindle will be in the over way (from back to front in that case), and if i turn, the rack will do the same job as before, but with the inverted spindle, the turn will be inverted to. 

It may be wired to drive it, turn the steering wheel to right and your car will turn to left


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## mattW (Sep 14, 2007)

This seems like a great project, keep us posted. I'm impressed by the way you are integrating stock parts from existing vehicles. Very nice design work on a budget.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

actually, there is more motorcycle parts than car parts ^_^

I plan to order next week the two mars motor Etek RT

It's really hard for me to find a controller for these. As they're going to be used under 72V (and plug in serie to have the electronic diff), I've to find a 150V controller. Do you think that a curtis 1231C 8601 can do the job?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

back to work! It's been a while since my last post, i've moved house...

before continuing metal cutting, I've made a "small" list of the work left to do










there is a lot of work before starting the body (right column) ...

I'm starting (at last) front suspension

here is one of the two front springs with the cantilever










It'll look like something like that when fixed on the chassis










number two 










I've solved the steering rack pb, i've bought an english rack (steering wheel on the wrong side, sorry if english people read these words ^_^)

I've made fixations of upper suspension (not welded to the chassis yet)


















I've to hurry, there is some rust because of the water flooding in my garage >_<


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

There is a delay for finishing the suspension. Paypal didn't like my adress changing while I've bought the clio's triangle. A whole week to solve this pb...

So in waiting the triangle, i've started to make the body; First of all, I've to place all elements I have, the headlights, taillights, the hood, and the windshield


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I was at the geneva auto show last week (before it's opening), so there is nothing to post these days

I've (re)moving my things form the garage and put it outside, the garage is been converted in rooms. So since the return from geneva, i'm making a little place to protect the chassis from rain 










At last, the clio front triangle had arrived!



























here is some quick rendering made in 5 minutes to see what it may look like in it's delivery/utility version



























I've spread anti rust protection now i'vbe bought at a good price a compressor with its air paint gun (i don't know if it's the good speeling)

upper front right suspension, done


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I'de to rebuilt it because i've took the wrong angle when I made it


























This time, it's turning! woohoo!


















A whole week to make only one piece...not very quick...>_<


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

I would say you are doing just fine. Custom work nearly always has some re-worked parts. Tough to figure everything, the first time around.


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Looks great so far!! 

OBTW, Your spelling is much better than some of us here. 
Trop mauvais vous devez le travail hors dans le yard bien que... 

http://www.freetranslation.com/


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

For people who speak french, there is some explanations on the videos

I've tried the springs, all is working well ^^














































i've got a pb whith the steering rack (again ^^), it's an english one, this time it's working on the right way but the inner wheel (in a turn) is turing less thaht the one at the exterior. I didn't figure out when i've purshaced it. I'm fed up with metal working right now >_<. So i'm taking a pause. I'm starting the master of the body, it'll give me time to re think the rack pb


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

The problem is not in your rack and pinion.

My question comes as to whether the spindles turned by a front mounted rack originally?

The Ackerman principle is what makes the inside wheel turn a smaller circle than the outside one. 

Your spindle arms look good for a REAR mounted rack, but not for a front mounted one.

The 1965 Chevrolet full sized car had a problem similar to this, as it wanted to roll the outside tire over the rim on a sharp turn.

The cure is in the steering arm angles on the spindle.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

thanks ^^

i'll look for it when the body will be finish


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Sorry for the delay, I had no time for myself these last weeks

Great news! I've registered my company woohoo ^^

i'ts not in the category i would like to be (because i don't have officially the knowledge to build cars ...), so it's registered in composite works (fiberglass, carbon,body kits for cars and motor bike, pone off,...)

I've started to make the body master










I can't work, it's raining cats and dogs

so today I've only tested the rear spring.






I'm working on the front of the car, still looking for a pleasant design 




































a whole day to align the taillights >_<


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

here is days like today you shouldn't get up of your bed. This morning I went to a wreck yard to buy too doors and a hatch back. I could put all inside the Bonsaï mobile ^^










there's a huge problem, the roll cage didn't follow the door curve, it's because i made the roll cage before buiyng the doors. Another stupid mistake...
I'll have to change that, I'll loose at least three more days >_<


























Another problem (it will be in a month), the place where I'm working is startinf to be a furnace at the sun >_____<

It's starting to look like at what I've got in mind ^_^


















I'm re making a part of the rollcage to make it follow the door curve


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

the doors are finally placed, woohoo! ^_^

with the rain coming, the next 4 day won't be very productive


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm still working on finding a god shape, I'm on good way ^_^


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

next steps of the building.
the under body is finnaly lookint to the image I got in mind.
after 6 month of searching, I've managed to find a 954 cbr rear whee ^_^. Still to find a car tyre to mount on it and the key to tune the rear spring, it's too smooth on compression



























Thundersky batteries don't seem to have a good reputation on forums. What do you think? For my point of view, a bms is a "must have" with that kind of technology


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

the body form is fixed ^^

Before doing the other side, I start re working on the steering problem
Effectively, there is a pb with the Ackerman principle.

I have to make new steering rack fixations.
For it, I have to trace a line from the hub to the rear wheel axle


















in the continuation of the virtual line, there will be a new fixation










The rear wheel is mounted up perfectly!










honda asked me 1248€ without vat , only 110€ on ebay ^^










there is still a lot of work to do...


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

finish!


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Today is a happy day! the chassis is finished ^^. The only thing missing is the motor fixations. As I don't have a motor yet, it's reported when I'll receive it

I've finished installing the steering column and re ajusted the steering rack, it's working "perfectly" woohoo!!


































there is enough room inside


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've just (re)found the GMS (green motorsport) website. They have a very inetresting kit, which contain all I need. It may be less expensive to order them a kit than buying one from USA which I would have to spend more money to buy the missing stuff and complete it. 

The building of the body master is advancing very wheel. But I don't have welding gas anymore (again >_<). I nearly finish to make the left side (and not the dark side ^_^)


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

the final form is fixed on both sides.
I'm starting to cover the skeleton with bird wire fence 


































I'm looking for a battery supplier. There is two that look interesting
*the first one found on alibaba offer me a 96V100ah pack with a bms for 3339,22€ plus 667,79€ shipping 
*the second is the well know thundersky. the same pack for 3530,19€


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Great work man!!  RESPECT! 

What happened to this cell?! I'm just about to spend a lot of money on ThunderSky cells so I'm a little scared now... 



80N541 said:


>


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't know what happened. Maybe an over charge. I've found this image on google when I was looking for a TS retailer in europe.

Something sure, there wasn't a bms on it ^^

I'll order several units from different LiFePo4 battery supplier. A friend of mine will make some torture test on them. I'll tell you what worth it.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Nice work progressing on the car. Like how you can make out the final shape of the car. Appreciate all the photos.


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## Gene (Apr 8, 2009)

Cool build, great work so far. I'll be following along.
I live in belgium myself, near brussels and i'm having the same problem as you do obtaining parts like a decent controller, dcmotor. That's why i used a motor of an old forklift for my build, cheap (got 2 motors and complete wiring, contactors and fuses for free actually) and very powerfull, maybe a good idea for your build too. Still haven't found controller though. If you find a good supplier that ships to this part of the world you can always let me know.
Si tu veut on peut parler en francais mais c'est difficile pour les autres gens de suivre alors. Quand meme chouette de recontrer quelqu'un d'europe ici


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

for me it's the exact opposite. I can't find a forklift to dismantle near my town.

I'll purchase the ac-31 kit form thunderstruck. They will send me a quote for shipping tomorrow. 

for your controler, try curtis. They have work office around the world. Or contact bryan from evamerica ([email protected])

pour parler français, il reste les MP


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## jocurimasini (May 12, 2009)

it's interesting


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

the underbody is nearly done with the wire fence


















front done










I will order one element of 100ah to thundersky. One of my friend will do a a torture test on it, we wil see what's it got

I've just received a mail form the website I ordered the rear tire. I will receive it only next tuesday >_<


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

today is a bad day >_<
the car tyre I bought can't fit on the motorbike rim, it's too large 6,5 inches for the rim against 8 inches for the tyre...

I've removed a part of the wire fench on the boot. If I've keep it like it, I would have sandpapered more later


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

can anyone tell me if the youtube videos are working?
when I post my messages, I cannot see them


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## JimDanielson (Oct 19, 2008)

I do not see any videos


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I'll change the message with the videos and put directly the youtube's link

well, the tyre has been mounted up on the rim! ^^

We've to be three to do the operation...

tommorow I hope to put the chassis outside to have enough space and take some pictures, to see what it really look like


















I've finished to change the wire fence on the back too


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

the chassis is finally put outside, woohoo! ^_^


































the last one is for scale










http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjecfzuuAsE

you can see the other videos on my youtube channel


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## ithinkidontknow (May 14, 2009)

very slick looking.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Wow, this is looking like one sweet ride! 

It looks like you are going to make a fiber glass body for it, which is sweet.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I do
I plan to put fiber glass on it this WE.
Today (and tomorrow),i've put news paper on it to prepare it for the fiber


























It was really hard to stuck the paper on the underpart of the body >_<


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## tj4fa (May 25, 2008)

Very Cool Stanley!! 

It's one thing to convert an existing vehicle. It's another to build one pretty much from scratch like you're doing.

Great job...keep up the good work!!


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've finished pasting the news papers and starting to put some fiber glass on the dry parts. 


















fiber glass on the roof










on the left side, boot and rear











But I don't have fiberglass nor resin anymore. And I won't have the news ones until tuesday >_<. SO tomorrow, nothing to do...


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

80N541 said:


> I've finished pasting the news papers and starting to put some fiber glass on the dry parts.
> 
> fiber glass on the roof
> 
> ...




Very cool. I have a weakness for three wheelers, too. I've done a fair amount of fiberglass work over the years, but never thought of using paper mache for a base. I think I'll steal that idea!


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## ev_geek (Mar 25, 2009)

Very nice. Couple of quick questions.
1) What BMS and Charger are you planning to use?
2) Any reason why you put the two wheels in the front and not in the back?

I notice that the rear wheel has the transmission...is that correct?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

ev_geek said:


> Very nice. Couple of quick questions.
> 1) What BMS and Charger are you planning to use?
> 2) Any reason why you put the two wheels in the front and not in the back?
> 
> I notice that the rear wheel has the transmission...is that correct?


thank you

couple of quick responses

1)thundersky
2)A bad experience with a tike. So this time, it will be a 2F1R (2 front, 1 rear). This is the first point for this choice. The second point is with the motor moving the rear wheel, I don't need to buy a differential.

Yes, the rear wheel is motorised


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've removed a part of the news paper I've put on the underbody, the paper glue I used has stretched the paper >_<. To correct that, I'm trying a new method, if it work I'll earn one week of sandpapring on each sides. I'll try to use big fiberglass panels I'll stuck instead of the paper.

I've finished doing the performance simulation file of the beast. I've exaggerated some data, heavier (500kg), bad cx (0,3),.... This is a "pedal to the metal" graph










I don't go beyond 30 seconds. I was skeptic about it's performances because there is no much power left beyond 5000 tr/min on the engine (ac15 from thunderstruck). So it reach the limit around 104 km/h (which is near the goal I'm aiming). But more important, a huge acceleration form 0 to 50 km/h In other word: woohoo!


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Sandpapering attitude for the next weeks










Before doing the other side (not the dark side ^^), i'll first finish one side.

Great news, tha element I've ordreredat hongkong last saturday has just arrived ^^. It took only 18 hours to go across half the planet to reach marseille, then three days(!) to go form marseille to montpellier (where I live, only at 240 km...).The UPS french branch is not very fast


















In the other side, quality is equal to the price I paid for it: really poor 


















Next step, I'm waiting the thundersky cell. Then the torture tests will begin


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

What manufacturer is making the cell that you just got? How many Ah and peak Amps?

Thank you a lot for sharing all the progress with us!!

Btw. Where did you learned all the stuff you're doing?

And if I can ask... Are you financing the project by yourself?

Greets form a few 100 miles south east


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't remember the name
I've found them on alibaba

3,2V 100 AH, 4kg

10% cheaper than thundersky cell, If I order a complete pack, the bms is free

I get some skills at the espera sbarro school, if you know it. But I've learned a lor by myself

the project is financed by myself for 60%. The 40% left are financed bay the french state (aid for people who make their own business)


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

80N541 said:


> I don't remember the name
> I've found them on alibaba
> 
> 3,2V 100 AH, 4kg
> ...


$1 per Ah?

I'm paying $1,10 per TS Ah


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

actually, TS sell me its cell for 1,5$ by AH.
I'm more confident about the result on the TS cell. If it work well, I could make a huge bulk buy which could decrease the price by Ah


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Hi, just a post to keep me informed of any new posts. Keep up the good work


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## ithinkidontknow (May 14, 2009)

Any updates?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

yep a lot

but the death of one of my best friends killed my motivation for the last two weeks

but life goes on as said the great tupac

The front end design is fixed


























http://www.youtube.com/v/MvTEdzeiSxA

I'm not happy of the rear end

























this sucks >_<


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

here is the new rear end design, It's better looking than the old one










the rest is getting well


























The first battery arrived, it lose some point with the poor quality of the shippment, the quality of the cell itself was very low too. When I take it outside, a part of the box fell on the ground










the pedal box arrived yesterday










I received the cell from thundersky too


























The quality is really higher than the first one.

Thundersky has some bad reputation on the forums, but they take care of their cell during shippment.


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## ithinkidontknow (May 14, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your friend, but the work looks great! Thanks for the update. I look forward to seeing more.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm making a piece of fiverglass of the inner part of the doors










Their will be some work to adjust it on the body master










here is a comparison of the two lifepo4 cells. Wich one is the thundersky?  










In this kind of project, a graveyard is nearly paradise. You can find anything you want ^^










The problem, when you're working outside, are bugs. They are putting their $*%@" legs on the fresh gelcoat. Tonight i'll watch starship troopers to cool dow ^^










but, these fiberglass plate will earn me huuuuuuuuge time in sand papering


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Looks great! The "trunk" cover looks a little like on the BMW 7 and 6 series 

Sorry to hear the bad news.


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## rillip3 (Jun 19, 2009)

That's really comming together! I love the choice in headlights.  It's pretty amazing finding all these different parts from various cars to combine into your original design. It's looking great!


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

The summer is here, it's too hot >_<
So today, I only cleaned up the mess where I work 


























http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmTOpDukFek


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

No news from the last two weeks. I've taken some holidays in corsica.

Back to business. I'm working on parts for motorbikes. So the three wheeler is put on hold. I'm working on it only when the resin on the motorbike parts is drying.
I've started placing the inner parts of the doors.


















great news, the motor has arrived this morning! ^^ woohoo!
I can't wait the end of august to install it on the chassis 










The beer is for scale 

But there is a mistake on the thunderstruck web site. They said that their motor id rated at 48 hp at peak power. But I think its 35 hp peak, wich is 48 kw


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## fritzgutten (Jul 4, 2009)

Very cool. It's so exciting to get parts, isn't it?
Things are coming together well, keep it up.
Do you expect the the lower peak HP will be an issue for your trike?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

no, when I made the acceleration simulation file, I only choose a peak power of 28 kw. And it was a great curve. And it got 150 Nm of torque (110ftlbs), wich is good for a vehicle of 400 kg.So i think there won't be any pb. I said I think, we will see on the car park for the first round ^^


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Great project and a really good looking body shape. I am very impressed at what you have achieved.

I am planning on building a reverse trike too but with a narrower, longer body with 1+1 seating so I am very impressed wathcing what you have done.

Only point though, if you don't mind me saying. You had problems setting up the steering and this is your finished fix:


80N541 said:


> finish!


I didn't notice any more photos of the steering after this so I am hoping that this is not how it is finished. I doubt that the rod and your welding will be strong enough to cope with the steering loads, though it is fine for seeting up the geometry if that is all you have done there.

Also your steering rack is not central to the chassis and on one side you have the track rod very short while on the other end the track rod is very long and extended with a bit of rod welded in. It also looks curved which is not good.


80N541 said:


>


Really the rack should be central with the ends of the rack lining up with a line drawn between the top and bottom suspension inner bushes. The movable track rods will then be around the same length as the wish bones so that they all move together. If not then as the suspension moves you will get bump steer and with the track rods of such different lengths the bump steer will be different from one side to the other. That could make handling, at best, very worrying.

Other then that I think your work is great and I will be 'borrowing' quite a few of your bodywork methods when I do mine.

I will keep up with this thread.
Thank you for sharing it.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I know that, but I can't place the steering rack else where. The battery pack at the front take most of the place >_<. I didn't thought of that pb when I designed the chassis. But it's not really a pb, for two reasons. First, there is no battery inside yet, the schock will be compressed and the rack will be aligned. Then the version of the car will be turning only on parkings and autoshows. Regulation for scratch made cards, here in france, is harder that US or other country . So I don't think I'll be allowed to run it on open roads before 1 or 2 years >___<

For the borrowing of bodywork, no pb. But be carefull. The method I used is not the quickest. I suggest you building a form with wood plates around your chassis, then put foamaround it. It will be easer for sand parpering.
This is what i will do for the other side of the body


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

I like what you're doing, too - it's innovative and interesting.

As we help each other on this site to have successful builds, it's good to be honest and supportive. I don't pretend to be an expert but have been building street rods and custom cars for 40 years and know enough of the basics at least to be able to build something that is safe and performs as designed. So at least consider what I'm about to say, along with what others have to offer as well.

I understand your space issue with the rack and pinion, but even if you are only rolling it at car shows and such, there's the matter of having people constantly looking at your work and saying, "Hey, that steering setup isn't safe!" It's like having a smudge on a Rembrandt. 

Is that a bent tie rod running from the rack on the right side? If so, you definitely need to move your rack. Tie rods have to be straight as any bend in them will become the weakest point in the system. It also means the steering geometry will be way off and it will be difficult to control.

The other issue is that most of us don't keep our cars forever, meaning that someone else down the road may well take your car out on the highway for a spin (won't you be tempted?), registered or not, so there's an ethical issue in terms of driver, passenger and pedestrian safety. 

And as much as I like what you are doing ... some of the welds are pretty scary looking. It's impossible to tell in photos, so hopefully they're stronger than they appear. Do you have a professional welder friend who can inspect them for you and maybe clean some up if need be?

Better safe than sorry as they say.

Keep up the good work - I really enjoy watching your progress. Work on mine has slowed because of $$ issues at the moment, but I hope to get back on it soon.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Would a wider rack from a different vehicle be useful? Just thinking that on an old MGB, for example, the rack is in front of the axles, fairly wide, available in LHD and without power steering.
Alternatively, you say there is no room in the chassis frame to move the rack behind the axle due to the batteries and your feet being there. Do you have enough clearence under the chassis to mount the rack in it's original location relative to the axle? The steering column could come through the floor between the brake and clutch pedals and then up to the dash that way. It would be much the same as the column on a forward control or cab over engine van. The top end of the column could have a U joint to give the steering wheel a nicer angle.

Just a thought really.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

yep your right, I'm the first to admit that my welds are craps. But it's only to make the bodywork and few test runs on my garden. The final version will be a full composite monocoque---->light weight, inexpensive and more esay to build in small serie. At ths moment (when i'll have the final body), it will be esier to re think all the suspension/steering rack. At this time, i'm alone on this projest. Difficult to to every thing I want to with only my two hands


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Ahhh, I see. This is only an experimental model to work things out with. That makes a world of difference if it isn't a road going car in it's current format. In that case so long as you are careful with your tests you should be fine.

I am planning on making my model at 1/3 or 1/4 scale as I don't have the space to make a full size one.


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## fishguts (Dec 19, 2008)

Oh OK, that's cool.

Keep it up - I'm enjoying the heck out of watching it come together.

Best of luck.


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## john818 (Aug 1, 2008)

80N541 said:


> The problem, when you're working outside, are bugs. They are putting their $*%@" legs on the fresh gelcoat. Tonight i'll watch starship troopers to cool dow ^^


Ha! A little bug vengeance! That's great!

Love the project. It's not something I'd want, but you're doing very interesting work. I'm thinking about building a reverse trike, too. I'll be interested to see how yours performs when it's done. Can't wait to see how that motor works out for you! Have you posted what your final weight might be?



80N541 said:


> But there is a mistake on the thunderstruck web site. They said that their motor id rated at 48 hp at peak power. But I think its 35 hp peak, wich is 48 kw


If I remember correctly, the Thunderstruck site says this motor is capable of being run at 108V. Your pic of the info plate shows "Voltage 72/96." Could this account for the difference? Maybe it's 35 peak hp at 72V and 48 peak hp at 108V.

Oh, and others have mentioned your steering issues, but I think I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. I'm no expert, but I've been researching a lot. It looks like you've learned what Ackermann angle is and are dealing with it, but you might want to look into bump steer, too. Considering how high and short your vehicle looks to me, excessive bump steer could make it feel unstable. I don't know if it _will_ be an issue for you or not, but it wouldn't hurt to do a little research, assuming you're not already familiar with it. A few minor tweaks might make a big difference in feel.

Good luck!


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

thanks for your support guys

working on the inside door is a nightmare >_<. We must continually raise the door, see if it rubs, identify what is in too much, remove the door, sand, up the door ... I started to have pain in my back >_<










Today I'v started the amount of windshield and the space between the windshield and hood










The windshield was broken, argh!. I think a rafter felt over while I was in Corsica >_<
It holds enough so that I can finish the master, but I'm good for buying an another one
I should opt for one of clio, it would have cost me less, much less...


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It's looking good though. I like the way the shape is developing. Looks hard work though. It's a bit like clay modeling but with glass fibre and filler.

I guess it is always difficult sourcing parts, trying to find the right part but also looking for one that is common enough to be lower cost for future replacement.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've installed some "protections" before putting the topcoat.










And go! 3 layers of thick later (there were a lot of holes to obstruct).


































Once dry (very fast with the heat in recent days >_<), to have enough perspective to see the flaws (holes, bumps, non-continuous lines ,...). The grandfather (and his all wet 85 kilos) installed is a good test is to see the compression of the rear shock ^ ^










































Next step, making formwork throughout the right side to put the PU foam.


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## TheSGC (Nov 15, 2007)

Wow, you got some mad skillz with that fiber glass!


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

That...is one of the most beautiful DIY designs I have ever seen. Thank you for sharing it! If it drives half as well as it looks, Mercedes may be knocking on your door soon, yes?


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

Ambitious project! There is a thread for anyone using the HPG AC series of motors to share their designs and information:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/hpg-ac30-31-50-owners-thread-34853.html


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

thanks for your comments ^^

If a big major want the project, i'm at their disposition for any proposal 

More seriously, thank you for the link JRP3, I didn't notice it when I went through the forum...It's a good timming, i've some questions about the thunderstruck kit. 

Today i've put the PU foam on the left front end. Tommorrow, it wil be the back. Then scultping it will start


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I started working on the other side of the body with a cardbox form to put the PU foam


























I take the "delay" because I work on motorcycle parts (on right)










The foam was also placed on the roof. Doing the double curvature will be funny.










I took the opportunity to repair, chew and gelcoats hood.
with the white hood, things change


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

That is looking so cool. I can't wait to see both sides matching.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Great progress! 

How can you be sure that both sides are 100% symmetric?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

CroDriver said:


> Great progress!
> 
> How can you be sure that both sides are 100% symmetric?


I'll make templates (right word?) of the finished side.

Today I moved the three wheels in its new location. I no longer have to work (let us not mince words) under the tent of gypsy > _ <

the beauty who expect his coach










Fortunately, the tray truck had a winch ^ ^










but why the manufacturers of trays truck do not think about people who make a three wheeler in their garage? I had to make in emergency a third rack for the rear wheel.










The most enjoyment has been during transport from home to local. I moved it during the beginning congestion in late afternoon. I created a traffic jam on a "fast track"(2x2 channels, max 70 km/h). I was driving on the right lane at 50 to take no risks, and the people that were passing me stopped at my level (ie same speed). The head they were making:"  WTF!"
There, I was enjoiying the moment 

But I was surprised to see that most surprised were the bikers.

Arrived at the local, she begins to sniff around for discovering a new territory: D 










The local is huuuuuuuge, and only 150€ for 170 m²


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

That is looking SO cool.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I had wondered what had happened to you.

She looks so much happier in her new home.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> I had wondered what had happened to you.


2 moving house in a row and 3 housebreaking in 4 weeks  ... So I had to move all my stuff in a fixed local


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

I've finished isolating the car ine the local. It will allow me to concentrate air and filter it.










A whole day to make the matrix of the front.


















sandpapering attitude! only 3 hours make a big change. I should have use this technique from the beginning


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Good to see you back. The bodywork is looking good and now you can keep the dust of the gel coat it will be even better.

I am going to copy your methods when I re model my car's nose cone to block the radiator grille.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

i'm using this kinf of shredder to scult the foam, and sandpaper for details


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

A 'Surform' is a great tool for this sort of work.


80N541 said:


>


Do you have the red cape to go with the logo?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

someone in blue panties had stolen me it >_<

it's not my fault, my name is santini


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## mastiff1 (Nov 3, 2009)

Very impressive! English is fine, probably better than mine. I also am in the process of building a 3 wheeler. Ohio (US) state law says I can use a motorcycle frame and license it as a motorcycle. I am taking a 1975 honda 750 and coupling it to a honda 1987 four traxx quad runner that I plan on splitting and widening. It will be a side x side 2 seater also. I plan on using 1= inch hard core foam insulation covered in fiberglass mat/resin for the body and using lithium battery pack. My mtorcyle doesn't have a swingarm so I may fabricate one as opposed to the dual shock set up the rear has now. I plan on using steering from a Metro. I have very limited knowlege of electric motors so am in the learning process and will save purchasing the motor or motors until the chassis is close to complete. Any motor information would be appreciated. 

Mark Nader


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiUzuKKBV-w







mastiff1 said:


> Very impressive! English is fine, probably better than mine.




for your question, the answer depends on what type of performance you want from your vehicle. What are your objectives?


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Wow, you got a lot of space there...

So there will be the production lines for the Santini EV?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

if it could become reality


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## mastiff1 (Nov 3, 2009)

want to get to higway speeds of at least 70 mph. was thinking of 30-50 hp to rear wheel.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

i've finished installing the ventilation










http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6SqfBJxDWI





as the front end is modeled, i had to turn over the beast. There will be a lot of work, I've to model an another shape.


















When this new side will be finished, I'll have to choose the final shape to keep, and make it same on the other side.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

I admire your patience. My daily driver is my other project, beside the race rod EV, and it has been stalled for a few years now because the reality of making templates and duplicating the effort on side "B" dawned on me after I managed to get my car covered with lumpy, bumpy, fiberglass and foam! 

The looks, stares, and comments, from people on the street are priceless! It's funny how some people have absolutey no clue how things are made. Some have no idea what they're looking at. Even when I try to explain it, I usually get blank, confused, facial expressions in return. There are those precious few who understand what they're looking at, and can even see the end goal through the lumps and bumps. 

I'm going to cheat. After side "A" is pleasing to my eye a friend/biz associate is going to help me develop a CAD model using his CMM arm. I'm going to draw a grid on the car, touch the points and important features with the arm, and cut the foam plugs from the resulting model on his CNC! Remove all the old crap, fit the foam on the car, and start glassing. Careful planning, execution, and a final layer of glass veil, should keep the final bodywork to a minimum. At least that's the plan...

I have a lot of respect for you though. You are accomplishing the same thing with your "bare hands." Awesome! Keep up the good work.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2009)

Nice ride. If you haven't thought of anything on the rack and pinion yet I have one. Could the steering rod coming out of the rack be lengthened and made ridged and run through a brace for added support. Then the steering arms could be made equal lengths. Don't know the measurements so don't know if there would be enough room to go lock to lock with a support on the extended piece. I really admire all the hard work you have done.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

I love seeing this thread, and car, develop.
It is wonderful work.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

i'm at this moment using a steering rack coming from an english peugeot 309, wich I return to put it in front of the wheels (in france we're driving in the right side of the road, LHD ^^)

I've also modified the hub to attach the rack and have hackerman angles (right speeling?). But this is not enough, the inner wheel is still turning less than the exterior. So it's still a painfull exercice to move the car by hand and tuning in same time...

This is one the many things I'll have to change in the chassis 2.0b
The other things to modify are (not sorted), moving some group cells closer to the ground and center of the chassis, thinking of the remplacement of the swingarm by a (custom) using a car hub. The goal is to build a pre (serial) version to have some beta testers


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## flames33 (Nov 9, 2008)

how much did you pay for all the electronics? Can you list everyting you used and what it is? Si tu veux, je peux parler dans francais mais mon grammaire sont pas tres bien  
by the way did you take it out for a spin yet? and seen how far it can get on one charge/ how fast it can go?
Thanks in advance


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

nearly 4800€ for motor, controller, wiring harness, spyglass

no road (parking) test has been made yet. I have to finish the body first before re working on the chassis. There is some modification to make on it, especially the transmission. The chassis was made in prevision to place two motors on each front wheels. Now the rear wheel is motorized.

there is today work done
i've placed some metallic bars to build the new line of the body shape


















cardboard form and PU foam placed inside










it's faster than mastic ^^










there is the differences between the to sides










i like the last one. But I have to finish the passenger side before making the final decision


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## Buckster (Nov 4, 2009)

Looking good.


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

Looks great so far.

What do you plan for the interior and in-car-entertainment? Instrumentation (e-vision)?

What kind of transmission will you use? I suppose chain drive but I'm afraid that the chains will be noisier than the motor or tires. A solution would be to use a "kardan transmission" (don't know the English word for it ) of BMW motorcycles. But you would need to change the swingarm too.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

two belt will be use, due to the swingarm form; I won't be able to use one to have the 4:1 ration i'll need.

for the interior, I really don"t know yet. Don't going to fast, first finishing the body, then chassis modification, and last, interior. But i can say one thing, it'll be simpliest as possible.


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## toddshotrods (Feb 10, 2009)

Since you have one side "done", I thought you planned to make templates from it and do a wooden skeleton style buck (like boat hulls are made). That would have allowed you to fill it with foam, shave down to the wood ribs, and start glassing. By stopping when you touch the wood you replicate the original shape "quickly". Then you can use the templates during the final bodywork to double check.

Now it sounds like you're doing a completely different shape and picking the one you like. That means you will do this at least three times, to go back and match the one side you choose. I'm not nitpicking, just hoping you don't get burned out on this phase and have to walk away. I've seen it happen so many times in custom builds, and experienced it myself too. Composites are fun but also, incredibly time consuming; not to mention expensive. Pace yourself, materially, energetically, and emotionally - this project is too sweet to not survive!


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

yup, i'm aware of that. But I was not satisfy from the first try of the rear shape. And then, I had an image in mind (a better shape), so I had to test it

To save time, i'm using polyseter plates stuck on the foam, I didn't have to sand papering, place mastic, sand parpering,...










Today I receive the moon wheels caps, ordered 5 days ago in US...  (very impressive knowing the fact i'm living in france). For saling and shipping something, americans are effective, but for after sale service, there is something to improve...(for american who read that, I not really criticize, it's an observation)


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## CroDriver (Jan 8, 2009)

80N541 said:


>


Nooo, take that off the car. This looks sooo 1960's


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

sorry, but I like them


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Here some pictures of the work in progress.
the body passenger's side is nearly done, I hope spray the topcoat this week end
​I've started working on the dashboard


























here is the body, this side has a better design (in my point of view ^^)


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Awesome, great progress. Are you going to paint the dash or cover it and are you going to cut out a glove box?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

it will be painted in black
maybe there will one or two glove boxes

but first, finishing the body. No working today, I've got a flu >_<


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## order99 (Sep 8, 2008)

(low, envious whistle)


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

big flu since last week (kuf kuf >_<). So it's not going on very well this week. I had enough to stay at house. Today i went to the garage and put 2 big layers of topcoat on it. Same program for tommorow if the fist two are dry. But whit frozen temperature here, it may not be possible 


































It's official, I loooooove this side!


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## MJ Monterey (Aug 20, 2009)

I also prefer the straight body line side. My eye follows it better. 

Keep up the good work.


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

This is coming together really well. I like the overall look.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

yes the design is in its good way, BUT, I'll have to redo the same on the other side...more work to do (again). I'm waiting for the day where the body will be finish


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Hi, you've been quiet for a while, any news?


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

hello
i've moved in the other side of france for a job. No connection since depature, no three wheeler to work on either >_<.

the work is interseting, i'm using evs every day for free now ^^
http://biroinside.com/473.html

But I don't know when i'll have time to work on my project again.

the good part is that we are know 3 to rethink the three wheeler project. In 2 weeks, all the chassis was redesigned. I'm waiting the new welder to redo it. The first one was to heavy, badly engineered,... 

Don't worry, i'll keep you update


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

After several monthes of inactivity, I'm back to business ^^.


I've quit my work in the ev company. We didn't have the same vision of the future.



I'm giving up the three wheeler, to build instead a......three wheeler!


The old one is officialy classified in Mark I. The Mark II will have some differences, but the chassis will be able to support the first body. I'm re doing it because the old one has to much mistakes on it. I've spent a lot of time during the last 9 month to re think the project.


So, for the 2.0 version, I'm updating the templates. 
This time, I'm keeping the ideas i've got in mind. And not changing it every month like in the old one.




















thundersky template












I take the opportunity to make some furniture, it miss me a lot ^^












Welding started!











I'm puting some template to respect the angles, this something I should have use for the past chassis.













All the photos were taken in a 4 days period. It's going very fast when you know were you're going.


There  is some things that solidworks didn't show when you build a full scale model (even if you know the full length). The fact to have the chassis, in real, in front of me show that the new chassis is longer than I expected.


I know for sure that there will be a Mark III. The MkII will validate the working of the tilting system. Yes, it will tilt (of some degres) in turns.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

After two weeks of inactivity, I must have my welding shot! 

I didin't want to start these piece before I receive the Fiat panda's hubs.
With them, you can make anything you want! They will be useful for the light tilting system.

So, 5 mm metal, buzz saw and the best tool in the world: 5kg hammer, BLAM BLAM BLAM! ^^

here is a comparaison between stock hub and mine










Everything fit perfectly ^^










Next step, the A Arms

I've found the paint I'll use for the three wheeler. A two color orange/chrome. I'm a retailer of DNA paints http://www.dna-paints.com (an australian company, like house of kolor).
So If you want paint for your project, I can get you some prices


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

The front left suspension is nearly done. 
I can say that the geometry is better than the one of the 1.0 chassis 




















I wait the moment the chassis hit the ground to determine the ackermann angles and weld the direction and steering rack


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

WOW! 

Hey, long time no see!
It is good to see you back and working on the trike. The new chassis looks good and your welding has improved too.

One thing though, the top wishbone, where you have a flat strip of metal to mount the rose joints, it will be a weak point. Hopefully you are planning on replacing that bit with a stronger piece of box section steel that the rose joints will mount through.

I will have to get on with mine a bit more as you have already over taken my progress twice over!
I have only made one part of one bit so far.

Keep up the good work, I will look forward to seeing it.
Glad you are keeping the body, I think your work on that has been an inspiration to a lot of people on the internet.



Oh, by the way, what steering rack are you using? It looks very narrow and I may be looking for one similar.
Thanks.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Woodsmith said:


> WOW!
> 
> Hey, long time no see!
> It is good to see you back and working on the trike. The new chassis looks good and your welding has improved too.
> ...


yop,thx

your right, the A arm was not finish at the moment of the photo.
tonight i'll put some new photos of the finish suspension and the steering rack.

There is no shame to say your "late". I'm working on it as time as possible, maybe 4~5 hours a day.

I don't know were the steering rack come from, it's a friend who introduce me to a french company that made it. Maybe a cross kart. I can ask them to send you one if you want, but oversea shipping should be expensive


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

80N541 said:


> I don't know were the steering rack come from, it's a friend who introduce me to a french company that made it. Maybe a cross kart. I can ask them to send you one if you want, but oversea shipping should be expensive


If you can find out how much the rack is it would be a good start, if not too expensive it may be worth the shipping. If you know the company name, too, as they may have a dealer in the UK.

Thank you.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

No problem


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## Harold in CR (Sep 8, 2008)

Nice new project you have started. Good to see you back. 
I will not ask questions, just sit and quietly watch the design shape up. 
Interesting new front end design. Good luck.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hey Woodsmith

(sorry for the hijack 80)

If you need a narrow rack look at the racks on the Lancia Beta and Hilman Imp
These have the steering arms coming out of the center rather than the ends of the rack 

A Lancia rack is effectively about 80mm long

I don't know what other cars have that layout


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

more esier and cheaper to find, if you want that type of rack, use a steering rack from a peugeot 106


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## Jimdear2 (Oct 12, 2008)

Duncan said:


> Hey Woodsmith
> 
> I don't know what other cars have that layout


Audi used it on the 5000 for sure (might be 100 over there) and maybe the 4000, Been too long since I worked on that stuff.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks for the options guys, and the thread hijack!
What I need is a conventional rack but with the steering column nearer the middle for single seat driving, centre seat or very slightly to the right. Also as the rack needs to be ahead of the axle I would need to look for a left hand drive rack and flip it over.

I will have a look at the 106 rack.

As an aside, I did once use an Audi, centre ball joint, powered rack longitudinally on a Land Rover to push pull the steering relay, before the days of affordable power steering options.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

Hi Woody

The thing about a center steer rack is that you can bolt a metal bar on to the two outputs in the middle and then have the steering arm outputs anywhere you want on the metal bar

This means that you can offset the rack to get your column in the right place and still have the steering arms in the correct places


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Duncan said:


> Hi Woody
> 
> The thing about a center steer rack is that you can bolt a metal bar on to the two outputs in the middle and then have the steering arm outputs anywhere you want on the metal bar
> 
> This means that you can offset the rack to get your column in the right place and still have the steering arms in the correct places


Yes, though when I first thought of that I was thinking of ball jointed ends to a relay but that adds two additional relay links in the system. I also considered the option of a VW Beetle steering box in the centre that way too.

I'll have a look at your rigid bar option, cheers.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is some videos showing the light tilting system. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96T3cdhCQnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Gsvy2P_84

I still can't put videos directly on the post >_<

The A arms get down in a right turn (inverted the other side).

The weakness of this system is when countersteering, the chassis tilts in the wrong direction. You'll have to get the perfect path in curve if you don't want to finish in a tree...


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## JRP3 (Mar 7, 2008)

80N541 said:


> Here is some videos showing the light tilting system.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96T3cdhCQnw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Gsvy2P_84
> ...


Just put only the part after the = sign between the youtube brackets. For example the second video would use only e1Gsvy2P_84 in the youtube brackets.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

big up!

thx


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

Very good, subtle but should be effective. An interesting way to do it.

Just a check, are your lower wishbones longer then the top ones?
They should be to reduce track changes at the contact patch of the tyre during suspension movement.


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## grayballs (Aug 27, 2008)

I think, in all the threads about tilting 3-wheelers (and that discussion has appeared in most of the initial design discussion), this is the first time I've seen a working system displayed that didn't involve computers and didn't involve a lockout feature, to prevent falls at 0 mph. Very interesting idea,,,, can't wait to see it drive.


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

It is a fixed mechanical system and that poses interesting anomolies that only a test drive will prove. Very similar to the steering on a skateboard in fact.

The car will lean dependent only on steering input. That makes it simple but it also cause the effect of maximum lean during tight slow turns and minimum lean on fast sweeping turns. In effect the opposite of what would be expected.
However, the lean will be small and so possibly of no serious consequence.

The system does look like it can be easily disabled with a minor redesign and so if it were to be problematic then it could be removed.


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## 80N541 (Jan 11, 2009)

thx for your comment guys

your right, the upper A arms are shorter than the lower ones. I do it on purpose. During a turn the outer wheel will be as vertical as possible.

as you said, only test track will determine the good angles and fixations. My objective is to have a good leaning angla à 45~50 kph. The steering rack i've choose has a short path.

@ woodsmith, the steering rack fabricant is sasic
http://www.sasic.com/html/index.php?content=home&lang=en


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## Woodsmith (Jun 5, 2008)

80N541 said:


> @ woodsmith, the steering rack fabricant is sasic
> http://www.sasic.com/html/index.php?content=home&lang=en


Thank you for that, I wil have a look at their site and see what they can do.


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