# Electric winter car?



## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I am going to be starting work sometime soon on a very basic, inexpensive electric car.

I will be using a forklift motor installed in an economy car.

The trouble is that I live in Wisconsin, winters have lots of cold and snow here.
I know that batteries have less oomf! when they are cold, and electric cars typically have TERRIBLE heaters.

I would love to use an electric car year-round, but is this a fair expectation for my first electric car? Especially since it will be a lower voltage, lower range vehicle?

I do also have a lead on a Mazda Miata, which would be a really cool little electric car, but I would have to just stash it in the garage for the whole winter, because it is a convertable with rear-wheel drive, and I would want to keep the body nice (away from road salt)

If I use the electric car in the winter, I would need to keep it in the garage. I think I would install some sort of electric battery warmer that would run off the wall electricity in the garage.

I could also "pre-heat" the car by using some form of electric heat also running off wall power. I could in theory use one of those electric oil-filled radiators, set in the passenger seat floor. I would have it plugged in on a timer in the garage to heat up for a while before I leave for the day, then unplug it and go. The oil in the radiator would stay warm for a while while driving around. Plug it back in when I get home.

So what do you think? Is a winter electric car practical at all? If I have a shot at getting a good price on a convertable with a bad engine, should I go for that?

All advice welcome - especially that from other cold-weather people.

Thanks,

-Ben


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

I use an oil filled heater in my car and another tip is to time the battery charger to come on and be done, just as you are ready to go.

The charger warms up the batteries enough to give you good power.

Can you charge it at work? That helps the return trip.

I put mine in a heated shop, while at work, so the trip home is comfy.

Snow is about the only factor to slow you down in winter.....


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## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

I was planning on using a large charger in my garage for main charging, and have a small on-board charger for opportunity charging.

Currently, where I am usually working, I wouldn't be able to park inside, but Might be able to get to an electric outlet.

Sounds like you are saying to keep it warm and then things aren't a big deal.


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

As Coley said, you can time your battery charging so that it's finished just before you need to leave to work, charging warms batteries and you can keep them warm while they trickle charge (top off).

You can also insulate your battery boxes, foam is an excellent heat insulator, it's non conductive and is VERY light weight, if you used 2" of foam around your battery box you could keep the batteries warm.

As you drive pulling power from the batteries will also warm them slightly so if you can keep that warmth in with insulation you'll be golden.

Also if you can reserve a parking location where you can get power then you can use your small on-board charger to slowly charge your batteries while at work.

This will keep them warm plus give you extra power and you can keep most of that warmth if the battery boxes are insulated.

Just be careful when you insulate the battery boxes, leave vents for any battery gases to escape safely and don't put the foam near anything that will get over 120 Degrees Fahrenheit, it could melt the foam and set it on fire 

Hope those ideas help you out.


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## smwoodruff0908 (Feb 5, 2008)

I am extremely interested in this as well. I live in northern IL, so we pretty much get the same weather around here. It's not the cold of the car that bothers me so much, but I'm a full time student, and while I'm at school I won't be able to plug in my car. Will the batteries give me enough power after sitting outside for 3-8hrs at a time?


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## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

One thing good about winter is that you learn where all the outdoor electric outlets are. Everyone has Christmas Lights plugged into them.

There are a lot of outlets in public if you know where to look, I just wish there were more in parking lots.

Schools tend to be sympathetic to various causes. You might even be able to arrange for a special parking space near an outlet somewhere.

My local grocery store has an outlet in the base of each of the parking lot lamp posts, but the local college doesn't. Go figure.


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## smwoodruff0908 (Feb 5, 2008)

Well, if I can't find any spots at school, and for other times when I may be at a friend's house, a bar, resturant, etc. and I can't get a spot to plug-in, would the batteries still have enough power after a couple hours to drive with? Would the insulation, and the little warmth from driving earlier keep the batteries warm enough? Also, for the hot and humid summer's here, would I have to remove the insulation for the batteries not to overheat? Thanks again guys, and sorry for so many questions (oh, and I do have a heated garage at home, but I'm just curious since I do park outside for pretty long periods of time when I'm not at home)


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## ForkenSwift (Feb 3, 2008)

Ben: you know what I'm going to say... "*do the Miata!*" 

- the small passenger volume means it will be much easier to heat the interior

That said, I don't have a heat source in the ForkenSwift. But with a 12-15 km "winter" range with my unheated, worn out batteries, I'm never sitting in the car long enough to get cold 

- the battery weight, *with 4 snow tires*, will provide all the traction you need

- the budget nature of the conversion means you won't be in danger of "breaking the back end loose" under acceleration, because you probably won't have enough power to spin the wheels - even in snow . Depending on the controller, of course. (Ask me how I know this!)

- you can undercoat/oil inside all the car's panels to stave off the rusticles - messy, but effective

The biggest potential winter problem will be the car's lack of ground clearance in deep snow. But that'll be an issue with pretty much any compact car you use as a host car.


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## Coley (Jul 26, 2007)

How far is your drive after setting for 3-8 hrs while in school?

I thought of a clear plastic hood to warm the pack on sunny days......

Where in Norhtern Il. are you?
I am in the northwest area.


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## headrush (Jan 20, 2008)

Actually the solution for heating that Gavin shows on his site (www.kiwiev.com) works really well. I even modified it to work in my old work van and now the the heating in it is great.

You might be able to modify it to "preheat" your vehicle before going. Might work better than a (evil word coming) gas heater.


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

> Well, if I can't find any spots at school, and for other times when I may be at a friend's house, a bar, resturant, etc. and I can't get a spot to plug-in, would the batteries still have enough power after a couple hours to drive with? Would the insulation, and the little warmth from driving earlier keep the batteries warm enough? Also, for the hot and humid summer's here, would I have to remove the insulation for the batteries not to overheat? Thanks again guys, and sorry for so many questions (oh, and I do have a heated garage at home, but I'm just curious since I do park outside for pretty long periods of time when I'm not at home)


It depends on how much heat loss there is, if you have enough insulation that the batteries don't leak heat out of the car then yes they could be warm enough.

Here's a simple real-world test for you, drain a bunch of power out of a lead acid battery you have lying around then charge it back up and place it inside a box with 2" of standard sheet foam around it.

Take the temperature of the battery when you put it in, put the battery outside and come back 5 hours later and see how warm it still is.

That should tell you if the insulation will be enough.

Oh and yes, you'll probably have to remove the insulation in the summer or the batteries will get too hot.


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## BenNelson (Jul 27, 2007)

I just got to see the Miata today. Doesn't look as good as I would have hoped. Has a flat black finish. You can tell it was very lightly rear-ended once.

A Miata would make a cool conversion, but I don't want to have to do restoration work on TOP of conversion.

I think that rules out that Miata.


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## smwoodruff0908 (Feb 5, 2008)

Coley - From school to my house is somewhere around 18 miles.

A little town called Wauconda. It's ~45 mins. NW of Chicago.
I don't know if that'd work, lol. I do have night classes.

Headrush - Are you just talking about warming the passanger compartment of the vehicle? I'm not concerned about that (yet). I can toss on a hat and some gloves. I just need enough power to get to where I'm going. But thanks for the input. I checked it out, and it looks like a pretty cool install.

Mastiff - Thanks, I'll try it out and see how well it works. But how can I tell if it stilll has juice in it? The battery may not be warm, but it still could have a lot of power left.


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## Mastiff (Jan 11, 2008)

Test the voltage before and after with a volt meter to see how much the voltage drops, that should work.

Voltage is a fairly good indicator of how much power a lead-acid battery has left.

You shouldn't loose much power from the battery you just won't be able to draw the power out if the battery is too cold.

If you can achieve keeping the battery at 60 degrees or so after 5 hours then you should be ok.

I think around 40 degrees is when a lead acid battery really starts to put out less power.


Edit:
I'd also recommend doing this 3-5 times and getting an average out of it so you've got more realistic results.


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