# Motor Mars ME1003 any good/experience



## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi there,

I´m working on the conversion of a 93 VW Polo. 

Engine is out and the frames for the batteries are growing.

Its going to be a 96V with lead acid batteries, 4 times 140Ah and 4 190Ah. The worst solution, starterbatteries (I know), but they were sponsored.
If the conversion is ready, I think I might have a few discussions with our technical inspection authority about the permitted axle loads. Whenever I read one of you in the states having done a conversion with lead acid in 6V batteries ending with 144V I wonder if you have someone to give a stamp to the permit.

The car is supposed to weigh arround 1200kg, go 70km/h and last 60 to 70km. Most tours will be just 10 to 15km, no hills and no highways. So the 13 to 15kW of the motor I search should be sufficient. Next conversion will be in AC (If I get the go from my Wife)

I allread have a Curtis 1231C, vacuumpump and some other needed things.

My problem is the motor. In Germany it is rather difficult to get hold on a forkliftmotor with not too much weight, the needed power and a duty cycle of at least 50%.

Now I´m thinking of buying the Mars ME1003. Not too expensive, [email protected] and not too heavy. My concern right now is if the motor will play together with the Curtis.

Has anybody right now got any experience with this motor?

Any information is wellcome 

Have a nice day,
Martin


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

The motor should work with the curtis, the problem is that the ME1003 is way too small to be used in a car, especially a car with lead acid batteries.


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## sokon (Sep 15, 2011)

maybe he meant ME1002 instead


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

Going by his kw numbers of ~13-15kw, sounds like the 1003.

The 1002 would be a better choice, but it's pretty heavy.....


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## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi,

nope, I need the 1003.

Here in good ol´Germany you have the authorities which watch that you stay within the regulations (of which there are al lot). How do you in the States handle the problem with weight? That means, if you have one. No authorities, no problems.

According to the spec sheet of the 1003 it should be sufficient for the things I plan to do with the car. Because M=(P*9550)/n is equal for all engines, the only reason for a bigger motor with the same power could be the time it needs to reach a critical temperature. But if the power is given as continous there should be no real difference.
If you have experience beyond the facts, please let me know. I know the 60kW from 1.8l or from 2.2l engines behave different. If not in performance, than at least in durance according to livetime.

TGIF,
Martin


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## sokon (Sep 15, 2011)

how is a 100kg motor too heavy for a car? AFAIK after the conversion, the cars weight must not exceed the original cars maximal weight including passengers which typically is quite a bit more than the cars "dry weight" and thus gives some room for a build?

In switzerland (where it might be similar than in germany) I got this quote:



> Gesamtgewichtsänderungen die über das Garantiegewicht gehen, erfordern eine Herstellerbestätigung oder eine Prüfung durch eine vom ASTRA
> zugelassene Prüfstelle z.B Fa. DTC oder Fakt.


from the strassenverkehrsamt.

rgrds,
sokon


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## otp57 (Feb 7, 2012)

Kptn_Chaos said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I´m working on the conversion of a 93 VW Polo.
> 
> ...


I am using the mars 709 motor and the top voltage for the motor is 72v the 1003 will work with the Curtis 1231c but 96v is the max I would put on it.


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## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

@sokon,

the Polo has a "ready for conversion" weight of 585kg. The batteries weigh round about 450kg, two standard weight people 75kg each adds up to 1175kg. Max weight allowed: 1230kg. That leaves not much space for motor, equipment and wiring.
Sure, a lile bit over the top will (hopefully) be accepted by the TÜV. but additionally 70kg to the motor will be over the limit. Brakes, stiffness of the chasis and so on will have to be recalculated if the auditor wants it.

Martin


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

That 1003 motor is too small. It's good for motorcycle conversions, go-karts, golf carts, but a car is way too heavy.

Even if you limit the amps to 200A, that motor will get warm and you will need forced air fan cooling of the motor.

Under acceleration with a motor that small, you'll EASILY pull 200A. If you don't limit that at the controller, you'll easily pull well over 400A. It needs to me limited 20 200A so that you're not continuously pulling that many amps (which you will in a car that heavy). If it's limited, 200A is going to accelerate like crap.... and by crap, i mean it will accelerate that car very slowly, even in 1st gear.

If you want to, try, but we're trying to save you some money. You should get a larger motor (maybe not 200lbs, but something 50-100lbs, series wound), or give up on the project.


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## sokon (Sep 15, 2011)

> Its going to be a 96V with lead acid batteries, 4 times 140Ah and 4 190Ah. The worst solution, starterbatteries (I know), but they were sponsored


Even if they are sponsored, IMHO they make your project "fail" because they force you to use a motor that is not suitable (and they also have many other bad properties as well). 

just my opinion..


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## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

Ok guys, you got me convinced.

I also looked at the techical data I got out of the internet. 24Nm for the ME1003 are really a little poor. Even the Polo had [email protected]
I could pull 550A for 1min with the 1003. But I think it would not do it any good

Next I was looking at the data of the ME1002. Except for the price and the weight everything ok. Until I looked under the hood of the Polo. 8" / 210mm dia is the absolut max. (drive train) and it has to stay under 400mm length.

I looked arround and found the ADC 91-4003 series. Could one of them do the job? Or do you have any other engines that would fit my purpose?
During my next holiday I will visit the forklift-dealers in our area and will see what they can offer.

have a nice weekend,
Martin


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## frodus (Apr 12, 2008)

The K91-4003 is still a bit small. It worked great on my motorcycle, but might be pushing it for a car.

Why are you so limited under the hood? Do you have pictures?


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## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

I was thinking of the L91-4003 or, if I manage to get the money, the 203-064001. Things get quite expensive until you can lay your hands on them. How do you think our country still has a good rating? All achieved by the taxpayers

From the end of the gearbox to the left side of the motorcompartment I have 43cm and I still need the mountingplate.
From the axle of the gearbox to the drivetrain its 10 to 11cm. So 8" is the max. 

Attached is the picture of the available space (at least I hope so). Tomorrow I will take a better foto and piont out the measurements. We´re here 4 hours after sunset

Martin


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## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi,

attached are now the fotos of the inside of the motorcompartment with a folding rule. 
The space from the gear box to the left side are 43cm with luck. The space from the gearbox axle to the adapter are max 11cm. That would allow a motor with 21cm dia.

Would the L91-4003 do the job? I also attached the torque kurve. 

Thanks for your help,
Martin


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## Tomppa (Jun 30, 2012)

Hi Martin!

Glad to see someone else is too doing conversion on a 86C Polo.  You are right, not much room for any bigger motors than 9'. I have a Kostov 9' 144v (8.66') and it is just barely too big and hits the drive shaft. Lucky it's just few mm's, something like 3mm, so that can be machined away from the Kostov core. This motor's lenght should be 357mm but I'm using forced air cooling. I hope it won't hit the engine bay wall.. 

I plan on using lithium because the low GWL doesn't alloy much lead and you'll propably lose backseats.

Greetings from Finland!
Tomi

P.s my first post


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## Kptn_Chaos (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi Tomi,

two weeks I ago I finaly got lucky and could lay my hands on a Sauer&Danfoss from a forklift. 10,5kW, 80V, 3300rpm, 7" dia, 36cm length.

The rear seats were the first parts to go. With 8 x 12v Starterbatteries (4 x 140A, 4 x 180A) there war no room and enough trouble to get them devided and placed to keep the max axle load.

I´m aiming for a low cost conversion. Not because I want to. Just because of not having the money to show of. By the way, with 20k everbody can do a conversion

Right now I even have the chance to get other forklift part from a 80V AC. When my gives permission (after the Polo and the brewerey are finished) I will start learning AC and CAN.

If you have a blog or photos show me how you do it. Mine is: http://e-polo86c.blogspot.de. Sorry, only in german and needs an update.

Have a nice weekend,
Martin


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## Tomppa (Jun 30, 2012)

I wouldn't go with AC. It's too complicated for my mind. I think your Sauer&Danfoss motor is a bit underpowered with heavy lead acid batteries. I wouldn't either mix different ah batteries together (140ah and 180ah). 

Have you thought about using tiny lithium pack? Something like 90 x Headway 10ah cells --> 30s3p to form a 96v 30ah pack? It would weight just ~30kg! It would cost more than 1k€ but I think it could be worth it becouse the weight savings (it means better acceleration, less consumption and better handling) and durability of those batteries. (I think starterbatteries are going to last maybe a year in EV use.)

Btw, was the 585kg you have measured without *all* the ICE stuff?,


> the Polo has a "ready for conversion" weight of 585kg


Yes, I have my own building thread! --> *VW Polo/Derby -89 conversion plans & making*

I read your blog. Ich kann nur ein bisschen Deutsch verstehen. Ich habe circa fünf Jahre Deutsch gelernt.  It has been a while since last time had read something german though. It sure could do some updating. 

Tomi


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## cpct (May 31, 2012)

Just chiming in because we have similar plans, but why not use two ME1003 and two controllers? Combined that's 24kW cont. 48kW peak.


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## brainzel (Jun 15, 2009)

Don't know exactly the pricing of motor and controller, but for one kit you would surely pay ~$1200, so ~$2400 Dollars for the dual ME1003.
Still limited to max. 72V and 200A.
Than you have to connect them to a single unit and hope, that the two controllers work well together.
A Netgain / Kostov would be at the same price, but much powerful.

Martin, I would rather take a good motor (your 80V motor would surely take 100-120V), save up some extra money and buy lithium.
Even if you could only afford the Winston 60Ah cells @ ~ $85 each, the performance and durability would be worth it.

Michael


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