# [EVDL] Speed sensor 2171S



## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

My next task is adding a speed sensor
to the back of the Kostov.

I was wondering a few little things -
1. has anyone done this ?
It looks like there is plenty of room at
the back of the motor, under the fan cover

2. Is there a way to test it stand-alone, or
do I first have to power up the Zilla and add a tach, etc?
(I don't have an oscilloscpe in my tool kit. YET.)
3. How precisely concentric does it have to be?
(I guess when I solve 2, I'll see 

I'm still evaluating the motor's readiness for
a permanent installation. One possibility is
to bring it to a motor shop I just got the name of.
And if I do that, they could tap the end of the shaft.
But I am not sure it needs it.

Thanks
Seth

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Hello Seth,

The speed sensor that Caf=E9 Electric sent me, was a Hamlin 55110 0315. It=
is =

a 12 volt unit that has to send four pulses to the Zilla for each turn of =

the motor.

I could not use a ADC type of sensor, because the pilot shaft at that time =

was direct driving 5 accessory units just like the belt system on a engine.

With this sensor, Otmar send me eight 0.25 inch diameter neo-magnets which =

in set into a 2 inch diameter coupler that attaches to the pilot shaft of =

the motor which couples to a V-pulley.

I first install only 4 magnets on this coupler at 90 degrees apart. The =

coupler diameter at 2 inches is equal to 2 x 3.14 =3D 6.28 inches in =

circumference. Using four magnets that are 0.25 inch in diameter which is =
4 =

x 0.25 =3D 1 inch. Subtract 1 inch from 6.28 inches equals 5.28 inches.

There is four spaces between the magnets which is now 5.28/4 =3D 1.32 inch =

space between the magnets. Otmar said to test it out with only one magnet =

place every 90 degrees to see if it works, and it does. If the spacing is =

too great, than I would have to add another magnet next to the other to =

reduce this space.

If this space is too great, than you will get a unstable signal to the =

Zilla, plus a unstable signal to the Tachometer. Also make sure that you =

use a double shield cable to this type of sensor. The ground wire is groun=
d =

to a aluminum holder that is bolt to the front of the motor. The ground =

wire at the Hair Ball end is only ground at the the pin# 34 which is Sensor =

# 1 for only a single motor.

I tested out this sensor on my motor test stand by connecting up a =

combination counter/tach unit made by Bedington Inc. No. 7631-5P1DC.
It can run on 5 to 24 DC. I got it at www.surplussales.com for $19.95 back =

in 2002.

You can see, this coupler with the magnets on it at:

http://go-ev.net/pics/031.html

Roland


----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:53 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Speed sensor 2171S


> My next task is adding a speed sensor
> to the back of the Kostov.
>
> I was wondering a few little things -
> 1. has anyone done this ?
> It looks like there is plenty of room at
> the back of the motor, under the fan cover
>
> 2. Is there a way to test it stand-alone, or
> do I first have to power up the Zilla and add a tach, etc?
> (I don't have an oscilloscpe in my tool kit. YET.)
> 3. How precisely concentric does it have to be?
> (I guess when I solve 2, I'll see 
>
> I'm still evaluating the motor's readiness for
> a permanent installation. One possibility is
> to bring it to a motor shop I just got the name of.
> And if I do that, they could tap the end of the shaft.
> But I am not sure it needs it.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> =


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> My next task is adding a speed sensor
> to the back of the Kostov.
>
> I was wondering a few little things -
> 1. has anyone done this ?
> It looks like there is plenty of room at
> the back of the motor, under the fan cover

Taking this a step further, and based on past
EVDL posts, does this sound reasonable?
1. Magically set the motor on its face so
the tail is in the air.
2. set the ring magnet in the center of the fan.
3. Hook up a small battery (maybe even just
one or 2 LiFPo cells)
4. use a toothpick or a chopstick to center
the spinning magnet on the back of the fan
5. glue in place (?epoxy? silicone? )
6. confirm roundness

7. use similar steps to align sensor over the magnet
Might want to cut the back cover to install
the magnet on a removable inspection cover.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Sounds risky. You'd need a way to secure it safely so it will 
withstand your continuous rpm's you will be loading it up with. 
Balance is also an issue. Is there another type of sensor that can be 
used with the zilla? Maybe a IR or some thing like that. Just need a 
painted mark on four sides. Some kind of visual type of sensor. Not 
sure if Zilla's have only one type of usable sensor. If you must use 
the one they provide then you may need a different sensor and gauge to 
read rpm's. Zilla may not be able to use it but you can see the gauge.

Pete 

Just thinking. Not all motors have dual shafts. A way must be 
available to provide for those who only have one usable shaft.




> Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> 
> >> My next task is adding a speed sensor
> >> to the back of the Kostov.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> [email protected] wrote:
> > Sounds risky. You'd need a way to secure it safely so it will
> > withstand your continuous rpm's you will be loading it up with.
> 
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Why not use the sensors they use on cars. 5v in pulls to ground if metal
passes in front. There is even timing rings that attach to the pully if
you are using the aux shaft.

Not sure if they could count the Kostovs fan blades and someone/somehow
divide.

A dumb question. Does the amps to the motor pulsate, I never looked at
it with a scope. I wonder if there would be a sensorless way that could
listen to the noise across a shunt. (I guess if this were possible the
zilla could handle this all by it's lonesome. Of course it wouldn't
measure rpm when power is not applied.

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I have to apologize for asking
the question before finding the
right size socket.

Now I am ready to ask for advice.

Once you take off the fan shroud,
the Kostov is a motor with a tail shaft,
tapped 8x1.25, and with a keyway.
The fan has a matching keyway.
The bolt ensures that the key stays in,
using a special washer that seems made for it.

There appear to be 13-14mm between the
head of the bolt (on the spinning fan)
and the back of the fan shroud.

The magnet that came with the speed sensor
has an ID of 6 mm.

The first thought that came to mind was
to cut an access hole about 3" in the back
of the shroud, and get a 4" steel plate such as
for an electrical junction cover, and bolt
the sensor to the inside of that, and then
bolt that to the shroud like an inspection cover.

But another thought was to simply drill
an 8mm hole in the shroud and bring the shaft out,
and do all the above on the "outside."
The drawback is this is more likely to be damaged
coming and going....and it makes the motor longer.

By the way, I have a 6mm ID magnet to mount on
an 8mm bolt. I am thinking I'll use an 8mm stud,
an 8mm coupler and an 8mm bolt and machine the
bolt to 6mm to make a 6mm tail shaft.
Am I making sense? Does that sound good?

Or should I just drill out the magnet to 8mm?

BTW, the magnet when in use would be encompassed
by the sensor, so failure risk turns out to be small.

Thanks alot
Seth

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> > Why not use the sensors they use on cars. 5v in pulls to ground if metal
> > passes in front. There is even timing rings that attach to the pully if
> > you are using the aux shaft.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Jeff: Good idea to use the fan, I hadn't thought of that.

Lee: I just ran out and checked on my Kostov, a magnet sticks to the fan.




________________________________
From: Lee Hart <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:52:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Speed sensor 2171S



> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> > Why not use the sensors they use on cars. 5v in pulls to ground if metal
> > passes in front. There is even timing rings that attach to the pully if
> > you are using the aux shaft.
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the brain-storming.
Here's my current plan, subject to
test and backout if needed.

8mmx1.25x40mm bolt
8mm flange nut

will tighten the bolt into the shaft.
Tighten the nut against the key lock washers.
turn motor on its face.
drill small hole in back of bolt
insert self-drilling screw; remove it
spin motor slowly (?light bulb in series w/battery?)
center magnet on spinning bolt
stop motor, glue
re-Install screw with washer.
The glue keeps the magnet from spinning.
The screw is a "runaway ski strap" -
just so the magnet stays on the shaft
in case of glue failure.

We'll see when...

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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > Lee: I just ran out and checked on my Kostov, a magnet sticks to the fan.
> 
> Aha! Then sensing the fan directly might work! The challenge will be a
> ...


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## EVDL List (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm using a Melexis MLX90217 "Hall effect can sensor" as a tach signal
sensor. I'm using it to look at the flywheel (only two notches) so I don't
need much speed, but the specs claim a minimum of 300KHz response - way, way
faster than you need.
It's designed for automotive use, and it is self-adjusting and very easy to
use. I bought one from Digi-key ( this was a few years ago).

Here is a link to some info on the Melexis site:
http://www.melexis.com/Sensor_ICs_Hall_effect/Special-_Purpose_Hall_ICs/MLX90217_3.aspx

Phil Marino



> Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > David Dymaxion wrote:
> > > Lee: I just ran out and checked on my Kostov, a magnet sticks to the fan.
> ...


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