# Finally starting my MX5(Miata) conversion



## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Decided to start posting progress on my conversion of a Mazda MX5 as I have just got off the phone with my shipping agent and the batteries I paid for in Nov last year are ready to be picked up Monday, I'm sooo relieved there were times I thought I had blown 7000 bucks, anyway enough of that, I have 32 x 200 amp hour Sinopoly cells this will be my commute car I need a range of 84 kms mostly flat motorway driving, I have purchased an AC50 HPEV motor and controller and various other parts from Randy at Canada EV he's a most helpful guy so all that's really left is a charger and cables, battery boxes and put it all together, before I could start all this I had to build a place to work on the car,

Funny start to saving the planet had to cut down a tree this is a shot of the stump I had to dig out of the ground

Next picture is the finished carport and the engine nearly out after a full day's work the day before with Nick Smith who supplied the brains and most of the brawn.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Then I need a shed to quote Jack Rickard "to get liquored up and play with high voltage in" 

A photo of the pile of rubbish I started with and the finished shed


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Went to Auckland welding school and fabricated an engine mount quite happy with the result, I hand bent the ring with a bending machine and it's pretty much a perfect circle not an easy thing to make, I knew nothing about welding so although I probably could have purchased the mount cheaper I learned a great deal in the process and ended up with this, retaining the original engine mounts.

Matt and Rock were really helpful I took over a complete day of their time so the price really was quite reasonable.

I would like to put some form of rubber around the motor bracket any suggestions?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Just had a thought well 2 actually

1. Using innertube rubber
2. Putting silicon on the engine bracket and lightly clamping it to the motor covered in plastic.

Please let me know what you think


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

It looks good. I don't think you need anything between the motor and your mounting band. It would slow heat transfer from your motor.


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

You might want to confirm but I think you can run your controller/motor setup with 36 cells. 

So when building the boxes maybe leave some room in case you want to add some more down the track.

Cheers.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yes Im still pondering I might try 22 A123 cells in 2 lots of 11 cells each to supply any high current demands and prevent sag 32 cells should give me the range I want without taxing the controller


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Picked up some unobtainium today, 200 amp hour black Sinopoly cells, yes they exist


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Got the motor sitting in the engine bay today, was going to hire an engine hoist but saw these winches for 20 bucks at the hardware store when I was getting my paint, was a delicate operation, I wrapped the rope around my towbar to raise and lower the engine, worked like a charm, while I was working on it my Cellpro powerlab8 arrived in the mail, will be able to do some testing and confirm how much capacity these cells actually have, will also come in handy for doing what it's really for, fast charging my Helicopter batteries.


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Good to see you with the Sinopoly 200Ah cells. Seems the measurements line up reasonably well, although its hard to tell with too much accuracy when the tape isn't square with the cell, I hope you don't cut wood like that.  They are the compact 200Ah cells we've all wanted to see though, so that's great! Nice car.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Ha Ha, can't make up my mind where my hidden talents are, movie producer or carpenter thought I'd try my hand at both.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

It's 1 in the morning and I've just finished bolting the motor in, I'm really happy with how it fits, looks like it belongs there and it's rock solid, starting to believe I might just be able to do this, got to pick up some longer bolts than the ones that came with the adapter and then it's completely in, I get my welder tomorrow, I'll have to get some scrap to practice on by the end of this I might even attempt the car rotisserie that RKM built on the "miatas last gas(p) build".


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

That is looking pretty smart! Need help with battery boxes?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Nick Smith said:


> That is looking pretty smart! Need help with battery boxes?



You bet give us a bell when you are free im off next weekend and the wife is away


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Have made some progress with battery boxes, have completed the very front box where the radiator used to live, my welding is improving heaps, will have to re-weld some of my first attempts, at first it was like trying to do something very hot and dangerous blindfolded, now I'm getting used to looking through the welding goggles and seeing more than a fireworks display.


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## Duncan (Dec 8, 2008)

albo2 said:


> Have made some progress with battery boxes, have completed the very front box where the radiator used to live, my welding is improving heaps, will have re-weld some of my first attempts, at first it was like trying to do something very hot and dangerous blindfolded, now I'm getting used to looking through the welding goggles and seeing more than a fireworks display.



albo

May be a stupid question - welding goggles - are you gas welding?

If you are using any arc welding process welding goggles won't cut the mustard - you will need a face mask system even if its only the face mask on a stick

Goggles won't be dark enough to see and won't give the protection you need


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks for the concern your right I'm using a welding mask, I also wear a cap backwards to stop the splatter getting in whats left of my hair and I've put a fire extinguisher in the shed don't want to lose all those batteries, sorry for the misleading description.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

After having a look at Brandon Hollingers MX5 conversion I'm going to start with the rear battery boxes and see how many I will need to fit in the front, I'm only using 32 x cells and would like to keep as close to 50/50 weight distribution, working at the moment cutting the gastank out through the top.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Worked all day today battling the gas tank have finally won and it looks to me like 18 batteries can fit with the nine I already have in the front that leaves me only 5 to find room for with heaps of room left for the controller and other bits and pieces in the front, my charger has arrived today I had it sent to work which saved me 45 US dollars.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Have made some progress today built the rear battery box and have it half installed welded nuts on the bottom of the panel so all i have to do is bolt it down also got the front box nearly done arc welding is probably too hot for this might have to invest in a gas torch have also made the final payment on my registration plate check it out


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Nearly there with the rear battery box


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

More progress on the rear box


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Its in and rock solid probably over kill but nothing wrong with that, also ordered my battery connectors from EV works today, thinking of using decking material to hold batteries in place suggestions please


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Just received an email the long awaited Scott controller is now ready this looks to be the next big thing would have loved to be one of the first to get one of these check it out

http://shop.greenstage.co.nz/product/100kw-scott-drive-ac-inverter-and-motor-package


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Progress is slow first day off after 15 straight 12hour shifts made the lid for the rear tray


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

albo2 said:


> Its in and rock solid probably over kill but nothing wrong with that, also ordered my battery connectors from EV works today, thinking of using decking material to hold batteries in place suggestions please


Nice work so far 

When you say "decking material" are you suggesting actual timber decking?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Grant_NZ said:


> Nice work so far
> 
> When you say "decking material" are you suggesting actual timber decking?


There's decking material called eco decking made from reconstituted plastic I think it was in an episode of EVTV


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Baby steps started on the new and improved front tray will fit the remaining 14 batteries leaving me a complete boot / trunk for the yanks, and what I believe will be nicely balanced wee sports car


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Doesn't look like much but It's an entire days work just about ready to bolt in


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## Nomad (May 8, 2009)

albo2 said:


> Doesn't look like much but It's an entire days work just about ready to bolt in


Any progress is great progress.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

well the front box is finally in.


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## Grant_NZ (May 28, 2008)

Sweet.. almost done 

Quite small cells for 200Ah, I take it your packs going to be 102 volts at 200AH? If so, how far will that get you?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Grant_NZ said:


> Sweet.. almost done
> 
> Quite small cells for 200Ah, I take it your packs going to be 102 volts at 200AH? If so, how far will that get you?


Hi grant. I expect to get about 104 miles brandon holinger has done pretty much the same conversion with 36 cells he burns about 200 w/hours per mile I require 84km for my commute into town the cells are the same form factor as the CALB 180 ah, It doesn't feel almost done but I think most of the time consuming stuff is placement of the cells should start to move along now well hopefully I just want it ready for summer its alot of fun to drive


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Have decided to bottom balance the cells to 2.8 volts, just at the start of the discharge knee, I have done this with a couple of cells already, these cells hold an incredible amount of energy I have them regen discharging into a 12v lead acid and the lead acid running one of the spots on the Mazda, it takes a good couple of hours.
I will then charge the entire pack, I have a chinnic charger programmed to 117 volts 3.65 volts per cell, I was told they could only program 1 profile so that gives me the option of adding another couple of cells and still charge to 3.44 volts per cell, this drifting I have read about appears to be a load of nonsense I have had these for a couple of months now and they are still at exactly 3.08 volts per cell, I have a crate not yet opened they will be the same.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

I don't think I balanced them properly after a full charge most of the cells were around 3.43 but. 3 of them were over 4 volts so its back to the drawing board, I finished the balance at 5 amps this time Ill do it at 2 amps I've now figured out how to do 5 cells at once it takes about 12 Hours to run them down and they were out of wack this time Im discharging to 2.75 volts. finishing at 2amps.

If anyone wants to know how to connect multiple cells to the power lab I cut the boards off and extended the leads soldering a 8mm terminal to each end,

the number of white leads determines how many cells you can connect, I have 5 on mine, if you number them 1 would be closest to the black and 5 to the red

with the cells connected in series black goes to most negative, white lead 1 to the strap between cells 1 and 2 either end it doesn't matter with each white lead connecting to the corresponding strap eg white 2 to the second strap between cells 2 and 3 with the last white lead sharing the most positive with the red lead

you will want to connect the heavy bannana leads to the most positive and most negative as you will be discharging for the rest of your days without them, don't choose the. option to balance entire charge all the othe options are the same as charging a single cell.

hope this helps as it took me a while to figure this out.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

I have also made some progress I have fitted a fuse on my. rear box i had to emove the entire box to work on it so i have made a few alterations check it out I'm quite happy with how it's coming together


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

albo2 said:


> I don't think I balanced them properly after a full charge most of the cells were around 3.43 but. 3 of them were over 4 volts so its back to the drawing board,


Hi there.

If you bottom balance (which I agree with) then you gain the benefit of not bricking your pack if you ever happen to discharge it fully. However when you charge you will exaggerate any capacity differences between your cells at the top.

So first question is - What is the capacity difference between your largest and smallest cells in ah?

2nd questions is. Are you charging constant current, constant voltage and what is your terminating amps? For a bottom balanced pack I would charge at most C/3 (thats 60 amps! less is OK of course) CC then to 3.5v CV terminating at C/20 (that is 10 amps for a 200ah pack).

3rd question is the 3.43v and over 4v charging voltage (which is fairly meaningless) or resting voltage. You should be aiming for a resting voltage in the region of 3.33 to 3.35 voltages (24 hours after charging). This would indicate a pack charged to 90 to 95% capacity. 

I think that under charging the pack slightly increases cycle life.

This is information gathered from watching the EVTV episodes on charging, YMMV as differences with the Sinopoly cells are not really known at this point - but this information should be fairly close. 

Cheers!


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

drgrieve said:


> Hi there.
> .
> 
> Q What is the capacity difference between your largest and smallest cells in ah?
> ...


Hi drgrieve I'm also a big fan of EVTV, I'm even going to EVCON will you be there? To answer your questions I'll try:

Answer 1: They should all be over 200 amp hours, haven't measured them as that would be a major undertaking, was not provided with a data sheet

Answer 2: Answer: I have a TC/Chennic/what else are they called Elcon loaded with the profile for no BMS it is set to charge to an average of 3.65 volts per cell so cuts off at 117 volts, max amps will be well below 60

Answer3: Yes I measured the voltages at the end of the charge cycle just before cut off, you are probably right I needn't be that concerned however I want to make sure the pack is set up right and the cells I have fully discharged did reach the bottom at different stages, now I can do them 5 at time I can compare them, I'm only talking .1 of a volt but I will know I've done it properly. With the resting voltage wouldn't you have to dismantle the pack before leaving them to rest otherwise they will all read the exact same voltage?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Was about to chop the end off my throttle cable when I remembered a handbrake I purchased for my son when his hands were too small to fit the brake on his bike he's now 16 so I don't think he'll mind me using it it fits the cable perfectly


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

When you are bottom balancing your smallest capacity cells will arrive at the fully charged state first, think of it as a row of different sized cups, all empty. Now start pouring water into them at the same rate. The smallest one will overflow first which is whats happening to your two cells going to 4 volts. If they are a couple Ah smaller than the rest and are going to 4V on charge you will have to pick a lower final charge voltage to keep them happy.

That said it's an excellent idea to re check your bottom balance point. A lower final voltage and a smaller current draw just like you're doing should help. I would imagine differences in internal resistance will be exaggerated near empty so you want to minimize the effects of voltage sag by using as low a current as possible.

Do you have room for end plates and straps in those boxes or is the decking material stiff enough to prevent the end cells from bulging? 

Nice build! Looking great so far.

Jesse


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Jesse67 said:


> Do you have room for end plates and straps in those boxes or is the decking material stiff enough to prevent the end cells from bulging?
> 
> Nice build! Looking great so far.
> 
> Jesse


Hi Jesse, how do you find the AC50 direct drive, can't wait to finally find out how this car will perform with this setup.

With the end plates, I don't expect any bulging, do you experience this issue, if we see any bulging on our remote control helicopters we consider the battery to be dangerous and dispose of the battery, i'm going to have to cut the voltage or add another 2 cells as the cutoff is 116 volts, i think i can use the expert pro gauge to stop the charger early.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Nick Smith came around last Saturday to help cable the car, I was way sick, he left me his hydraulic crimp-er and very sharp cable cutters, (why do you imagine cutting someones finger every time you use those things) I have all next week off so I'm gonna get stuck in, watch this space.

Also Nick noticed I had been supplied a 12v contactor instead of the 24v, contacted Randy at Canada EV he's going to send out the 24 v and i can keep the 12v, I highly recommend Randy as a supplier he answered my emails nearly instantly from the other side of the world, it's when there is a problem you find out what type of person/company you are dealing with.


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

No danger with these cells like the lipos in your helicopter, different chemistry, but they will swell and increase in internal resistance if you happen to overcharge any at all, clamping should prevent that from happening. The direct drive works great for this little truck at 1500lbs but I wouldn't want to use it like that for anything too much heavier. I thought it looked like you were keeping your transmission?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Jesse67 said:


> No danger with these cells like the lipos in your helicopter, different chemistry, but they will swell and increase in internal resistance if you happen to overcharge any at all, clamping should prevent that from happening. The direct drive works great for this little truck at 1500lbs but I wouldn't want to use it like that for anything too much heavier. I thought it looked like you were keeping your transmission?


yep I'm keeping my trans, just curious to see how yours performs


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

Jesse67 said:


> but they will swell and increase in internal resistance if you happen to overcharge any at all, clamping should prevent that from happening.


If you overcharge LiFeP04 cells, and they can't vent, and you have them clamped (or tight in the box). Then the CO2 that is trying to escape remains.

So 1. When the clamping pressure is released, the cell will swell. 2. The cell is damaged and the clamping doesn't prevent that.

Clamping is useful for reducing cell movement which can cause wear and tear.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

drgrieve said:


> If you overcharge LiFeP04 cells, and they can't vent, and you have them clamped (or tight in the box). Then the CO2 that is trying to escape remains.
> 
> So 1. When the clamping pressure is released, the cell will swell. 2. The cell is damaged and the clamping doesn't prevent that.
> 
> Clamping is useful for reducing cell movement which can cause wear and tear.


yep I'm with drgrieve on this one, if the cells swell then you have damaged them, mine pack pretty tightly into the boxes there will be no movement, does anyone know when a Sinopoly cell is overcharged 2 of mine reached 4 volts on my first charge as a pack, the rest were only around 3.4 volts so they range quite dramatically, all of them are over the 200 amp hours though it took 211 amp hours to charge the pack from empty.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

If they only went to 4 volts then you should be OK but you might want to bottom balance your cells better which may bring those into balance better. Since you have cells that are in the 211 AH per cell then you have some play room. 3.65 volts per cell is nearly the top of your cutoff. Many are now going to 3.5 volts but you should still be good at 3.65. If someone can actually come up with a way to change the voltage limits in these controller do better fit the voltage for these cell they by my hero. I'd like to change my end voltage on one of my Elcons to 3.5. On my big one I actually have 10 end voltage ranges to choose from. The other one only has one end voltage but has different AH ranges for the cells.

Pete


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> If they only went to 4 volts then you should be OK but you might want to bottom balance your cells better which may bring those into balance better. Since you have cells that are in the 211 AH per cell then you have some play room. 3.65 volts per cell is nearly the top of your cutoff. Many are now going to 3.5 volts but you should still be good at 3.65. If someone can actually come up with a way to change the voltage limits in these controller do better fit the voltage for these cell they by my hero. I'd like to change my end voltage on one of my Elcons to 3.5. On my big one I actually have 10 end voltage ranges to choose from. The other one only has one end voltage but has different AH ranges for the cells.
> 
> Pete


Hi Onegreenev do you have the 3 wire pigtail coming out of the charger there is a way to use that to make the charger shut off, I'll check my wiring diagram when I get a chance, yep i was monitoring the batteries closely and there was no heat, at all from the cells, the pack was bottom balanced very carefully all to a resting voltage of 3.8 volts.


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## onegreenev (May 18, 2012)

albo2 said:


> Hi Onegreenev do you have the 3 wire pigtail coming out of the charger there is a way to use that to make the charger shut off, I'll check my wiring diagram when I get a chance, yep i was monitoring the batteries closely and there was no heat, at all from the cells, the pack was bottom balanced very carefully all to a resting voltage of 3.8 volts.


True but it over rides the normal circuit and gives control to another device. If the device fails the charger continues if I am not mistaken which would over charge at full amperage in no time. I trust the internal built in mechanism over a BMS system. 

Pete


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

I don't disagree that overcharging will damage your cells but swelling will cause increased internal resistance. If you over charge an unclamped cell it will still swell. Basically there is no reason to not clamp your cells, in the very least you want to keep then stationary in your car.

The AC50 is awesome, I'm very happy I went this way. The control and power delivery is very smooth and I'm a big fan of the programability.

Jesse


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

albo2 said:


> Hi Onegreenev do you have the 3 wire pigtail coming out of the charger there is a way to use that to make the charger shut off, I'll check my wiring diagram when I get a chance, yep i was monitoring the batteries closely and there was no heat, at all from the cells, the pack was bottom balanced very carefully all to a resting voltage of 3.8 volts.


I assume you mean 2.8 volts. This is a good bottom balance.

Of course now at the charging end your charging voltages will be more unbalanced (as you have noticed). 

This is OK as in any case you don't want to charge to full with every charge. Charging to 95% full should (in theory) increase cycle life and keep you cells from the charging knee.

You should charge to 3.5v in your constant voltage phase and terminate the charge when current has fallen to 10 amps (C/20). Your static voltage should be 3.33 to 3.35 volts.

But these cells might be slightly different from the normal. To check the SOC at certain static voltages you can do some testing on a "weak cell".

Charge to 3.65v terminating at 10amps. Your resting static voltage should be 3.40v. Discharge at 10 amps until 2.7V to see what your full AH is. Then charge back to 3.65 (terminating still at 10 amps). Then take 5% of ah out. Wait for cells to rest. This should be your target charging static voltage. Take another 75% of ah out. This should be your bottom balancing static voltage target.

Since you already know you ah I guess you can probably can skip the first part of the testing - but it might be informative as I believe these cells have a very flat discharge curve. I'd like to see some figures like this reported.

Cheers!


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Have made some progress with the high voltage wiring not happy with plastic clips thouht they would be safer but they are not robust enough


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Made some brackets of my own and covered them in heat shrink, much better, I worked on the car all afternoon doesn't feel like I got a lot done but small progress is still progress.


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

albo2 said:


> Made some brackets of my own and covered them in heat shrink, much better, I worked on the car all afternoon doesn't feel like I got a lot done but small progress is still progress.


Check out the Curtis installation guide. IIRC it says to avoid having cable cross the middle of the controller. From the photo it appears that one DC cable is crossing the middle. I can't tell for sure but if it is raised above the controller it may be ok.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

ricklearned said:


> Check out the Curtis installation guide. IIRC it says to avoid having cable cross the middle of the controller. From the photo it appears that one DC cable is crossing the middle. I can't tell for sure but if it is raised above the controller it may be ok.


Thanks I was totally unaware I will turn it so it goes around the outside


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Rear box complete have left 1 strap disconnected so there is no potential differance was thinking of ways I could use ratchet tie downs without shorting the batteries, simple just tighten them under the car has worked really well these batteries are packed nice and tight


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

onegreenev said:


> True but it over rides the normal circuit and gives control to another device. If the device fails the charger continues if I am not mistaken which would over charge at full amperage in no time. I trust the internal built in mechanism over a BMS system.
> 
> Pete


I have used the e-xpert pro alarm to simply disconnect the 12volts supplied by the charger this is required for the charger to function at all if the alarm fails on the guage the charger will just continue as programmed so all I have done is added some redundancy


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> Worked all day today battling the gas tank have finally won



wow, looks like you did NOT drop the suspension off the bottom to get the gas tank out as some other mx5 builds..... in retrospect, which would you do 'next time? I am about to upgrade a lead-acid build and looking for room and balance for 48 x 130ah cells.

how about balance.... have you measured front/rear. I am curious as to whether I am going to have to load *some* batteries under the trunk just to get the weight right.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> wow, looks like you did NOT drop the suspension off the bottom to get the gas tank out as some other mx5 builds..... in retrospect, which would you do 'next time? I am about to upgrade a lead-acid build and looking for room and balance for 48 x 130ah cells.
> 
> how about balance.... have you measured front/rear. I am curious as to whether I am going to have to load *some* batteries under the trunk just to get the weight right.


In retrospect I would drop the suspension, it's not that hard (well I suspect that to be the case) and you can be more accurate in how much metal to remove for your box, leaving some panel steel to bolt to makes life a lot simpler, with balance I think having the weight where it's designed to be I think is the way to go, I'm only using 32 x cells though but I think there's plenty more room up front, I'm expecting my front to be pretty much the same weight as with the old dirty smelly ICE and all the other garbage that went along with it.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> In retrospect I would drop the suspension,



thx. I am just about to start digging into removing dead lead from the one I bought (converted to lead a couple years ago).... and probably going to move a few things around and have to re-rack for sure.


d


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> thx. I am just about to start digging into removing dead lead from the one I bought (converted to lead a couple years ago).... and probably going to move a few things around and have to re-rack for sure.
> 
> 
> d


Cool DT keep in touch would love to see some pics and stuff, just checked your website on zappy so it looks like you have empty garage syndrome where your car doesn't need you anymore , I've got the day off so mine needs me badly that's where I'm about to head, don't suppose you are going to EVCON are you?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

....mmmmm, no EVCON for me this year. Travel budget severely impacted by Divorce. I am building second EV with the intent to try short term rentals locally, then build-to-suit leasing or sale. I have been watching several people attempt straight conversion services, but it looks like financing is a big roadblock for many prospective buyers, so I am trying to come up with a way to manage local financing by financing the first few myself to test the model, then attempt to secure local investors or take on Partners.

Zappy 1 is my daily driver (until the Miata is done!) and I will put both up for Rental after I nail down how to insure appropriately, etc.

I'll be starting a thread on the upgrade here, and a separate photo gallery on EnviroKarma.org soon. Just setting up batteries in parallel this afternoon to top-balance while I start dismantling the lead...


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> ....mmmmm, no EVCON for me this year. Travel budget severely impacted by Divorce. I am building second EV with the intent to try short term rentals locally, then build-to-suit leasing or sale. I have been watching several people attempt straight conversion services, but it looks like financing is a big roadblock for many prospective buyers, so I am trying to come up with a way to manage local financing by financing the first few myself to test the model, then attempt to secure local investors or take on Partners.
> 
> Zappy 1 is my daily driver (until the Miata is done!) and I will put both up for Rental after I nail down how to insure appropriately, etc.
> 
> I'll be starting a thread on the upgrade here, and a separate photo gallery on EnviroKarma.org soon. Just setting up batteries in parallel this afternoon to top-balance while I start dismantling the lead...


Good luck with that Dan, I think we would all love to do this for our job there must be some way but by the time all the parts are paid for there's very little scope for all the labour without the end product being extremely expensive councils or govt departments would be a good target our local council has bought a leaf for 60 000 man what a rip off


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Man today was a drama went to install the front pack and they wouldn't fit, I have had them in before but there was no way today, had to widen the box by 5 mm anyway at least i can now get a shot of the heatsink I got for 30 bucks I went to our local aluminium supplier and the manager was the bass player from a band I was in years ago any way i got a whole metre of the stuff enough for a couple of heat sinks hopefully this will do the trick until nick makes my chill plate


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Front box in they are packed in real tight


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> ... a couple of heat sinks hopefully this will do the trick until nick makes my chill plate


My understanding is that with the Solitons you are kinda wasting your time with an external finned plate on the bottom... much better to utilize the fluid ports. Even without an external radiator, and just with a small reservoir the built in cooling channels will pull the heat quite well.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> My understanding is that with the Solitons you are kinda wasting your time with an external finned plate on the bottom... much better to utilize the fluid ports. Even without an external radiator, and just with a small reservoir the built in cooling channels will pull the heat quite well.


Hi Dan you are correct water is the most efficient way of dissapating heat I will be installing a chill plate designed by electric car guru nick smith but until then I fitted the heat sink so I could take it for a quick spin better than no cooling which is pretty much what the Curtis is shipped with


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

well heaps to update when they say it's all about finding space and fitting the batteries they are 100% on the money, I can't believe how quickly things have come together I can now say I have driven an electric car and it feels good the days of the ice are numbered here's some pics I did have some small problems wiring the controller if not for this forum I would have been totaaly confused, the latest diagram doesn't show pin 1 going to the pack it wasn't until I found an earlier diagram on DIY that it became clear even so it's hard to believe the tiny wires on the controller could connect to the pack. So once I got it all wired up I flicked the main cut off switch heard the contactor engage and the controller started flashing amber I tried the pot box and the motor didn't turn Oh well I thought I better check the error codes hmm after 30 mins I find flashing amber means controller functioning normally, it was only a terminal I had used to tap the 12 volts hadn't connected once that was sorted I was away
I then fitted my vacuum pump once this was done I though hmm I can go and stop better go for a ride no seat not that that makes much differance in the mx5 excuse the rambling but this is one of the best days of my life


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Starting to sort the intrumentation, the previous owner had some killer srereo that must have sucked plenty of juice as they had a volt meter and an amp meter, I have kept the volt meter and replaced the amp meter with my e-xpert pro gauge I have also replaced the oil pressure guage with the curtis gauge I will probably use the fuel and rev meter at some stage and I've found a really good spot for the emergency shut off, lets just say I'm glad I stopped smoking, its all a work in progress but at least I know where it's all going, next stop wiring in the charger and dc 2 dc I'm going to wire in the spare contacter into the negative line so theres no way the circuit can go live while the charger is plugged in


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm just about ready to start my thread on upgrade from lead to Li in MY miata.... pondering moving things around to maintain balance. the 130ah CALB cells I have are quite a bit taller than the Optima yellow-tops that were in the car, so I won't be able to use the rack that's under the hood.

How many ah are your cells (height)? can you post a picture of the whole motor bay showing the whole rack and where you've jammed the other stuff under the hood?

have you measured weight distribution front/rear?

....and whats the summary of how many cells you have under hood, behind seat, in trunk?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> I'm just about ready to start my thread on upgrade from lead to Li in MY miata.... pondering moving things around to maintain balance. the 130ah CALB cells I have are quite a bit taller than the Optima yellow-tops that were in the car, so I won't be able to use the rack that's under the hood.
> 
> How many ah are your cells (height)? can you post a picture of the whole motor bay showing the whole rack and where you've jammed the other stuff under the hood?
> 
> ...



I have the Sinopoly 200 amp hour cells, I think they are the same dimensions as the CALB 180 but here they are:

Height to the top of the terminal is 281mm, 180mm wide, 71mm deep
I have 32 cells in total 18 where the fuel tank was and 14 where the radiator was, I could fit more in the front but I didn't specify no aux shaft so that's in the way I could cut it short but you never know it might come in handy, I do have photos but it's still a work in progress, I have the controller and high voltage on a rack that spans the engine bay just a couple of angle iron lengths I have mounted the vacuum pump upside down, should be plenty of room for the DC 2 DC not going to use a vacuum reservoir as it takes up too much room, the brakes are fine.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> I have the Sinopoly 200 amp hour cells, I think they are the same dimensions as the CALB 180 but here they are:
> 
> Height to the top of the terminal is 281mm, 180mm wide, 71mm deep
> I have 32 cells in total 18 where the fuel tank was and 14 where the radiator was, I could fit more in the front but I didn't specify no aux shaft so that's in the way I could cut it short but you never know it might come in handy, I do have photos but it's still a work in progress, I have the controller and high voltage on a rack that spans the engine bay just a couple of angle iron lengths I have mounted the vacuum pump upside down, should be plenty of room for the DC 2 DC not going to use a vacuum reservoir as it takes up too much room, the breaks are fine.



interesting, the dimensions of the CALB 130s (140 really) are just a few mm different except for the thickness. Height to the top of the terminal is 278mm, 182mm wide, 56mm deep


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Have made good use of the extra 12 volt contacter I was sent in error have placed it on the negative leg it is switched on by the 12 volt switched circuit through a NC relay when I plug my charger in it completes the control circuit of the relay cutting power to the contacter so if the charger is plugged in you can't drive I looked through all the connectors at the electronics store and couldn't find any thing suitable then while at Repco I glanced at a 7 pin trailor plug it works fantastic and doesn't get close to being warm I have also wired in the e-xpert pro guage to switch the charger off when it reaches 112 volts my weakest 3 cells are at 3.7 the rest around 3.4
Note the Mazspares sticker I have a noisy diff so I phoned for a quote 195.00 I was told, they also requested to see the car so they could supply the correct part, man what a scene when they discovered it was electric, when it came time to pay the boss said make it 95.00 so I think a sticker is well deserved


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## ricklearned (Mar 3, 2012)

MN Driver said:


> ,,,,,,, although its hard to tell with too much accuracy when the tape isn't square with the cell, I hope you don't cut wood like that. ..........


My grandfather was a Minnesota lumber guy and he always made comments like that. LOL


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

ricklearned said:


> My grandfather was a Minnesota lumber guy and he always made comments like that. LOL


then I go and prove him right by putting a wonky piece of wood in, not sure what to do about that I might round it and cover it in polypropalene or make it out of thin sheet, hmmm or just paint it black, but as for functionality it's easy to work with and strong


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

back from evccon met and made some great friends its amazing what 2 dollars will get you in the cape, have made some progress but as usual didn't take photos got the dash brake light going had to solder and bypass the hole i made for the curtis guage in the dash circuit board, have installed the rear parcel tray and carpet, that should make things nice and quite you wouldn't even know there are batteries there check it out


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## Jesse67 (May 12, 2009)

Nice work, great to finally have it moving hey? 

Your pictures of the wiring plug a couple posts up scared me, I was saying holy crap is that a wrench sitting on your battery terminals! An then I realized you have clear tops on the boxes... good idea! Even across one cell a wrench will make a big spark, I speak from experience.... 

Good luck!

Jesse


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Jesse67 said:


> Nice work, great to finally have it moving hey?
> 
> Your pictures of the wiring plug a couple posts up scared me, I was saying holy crap is that a wrench sitting on your battery terminals! An then I realized you have clear tops on the boxes... good idea! Even across one cell a wrench will make a big spark, I speak from experience....
> 
> ...


mate Ive had one close call while the pack was in the shed my meter was switched to amps and I thought I was measuring the pack voltage I got my test lead about 6 inches from the positive terminal the next thing i knew I was arche welding with an amp meter, since then I have the rear pack disconnected and the boxes covered with no live terminals open when I work on it


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Visited HPEV on the way home picked up a chill plate not sure I will use it as the ducting I put in is keeping the controller pretty cool, but I was playing with the fuel tank sender to see if my guage still worked and I noticed a pretty nice pump on the end of it, can anyone think of a reason this would not work as a cooling pump


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

Allan, you owe me a suitcase lock . TSA took a look inside my suitcase to find out what the big thing on the Xray was!!!!

Interested to see your results on the fuel tank sender. Let me know the resistances or voltages, or whatever you find. I have the arduino moving the gage stepper motor, I just need to find out what kind of analog input I need to tie it up with a fuel gage and make the needle follow the input. If I do Amps it will obviously just be a mV input.


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

albo2 said:


> I noticed a pretty nice pump on the end of it, can anyone think of a reason this would not work as a cooling pump


Don't see why this wouldn't work and the wiring is already there for it. Is there a return line or would you need to add a fitting to the other (intake) side. Just make sure it doesn't have any fuel in it if you weld any fittings on!


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Pretty sure I owe you a lot more than a suitcase lock infact you still own the chill plate you've got to come and have a drive it's hardcto describe the differance with the new diff and carpet it's like driving a whisper


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> fuel tank pump on the end of it, can anyone think of a reason this would not work as a cooling pump


I was thinking the same thing.... even have a nice fuse/relay all set up with ignition-on! Only think I could think of is that the seals and whatever are designed for gasoline, not warm antifreeze. Might be pretty cool to combine your overflow 'tank' and drop the fuel pump inside! That way you could just leave on the stock screened/filtered intake and simplify your mounting to just the reservoir.


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## donx03 (Nov 19, 2011)

The MX5 looks like a very professional conversion, especially the welding. Keep up the good work!

Hey when I was doing my laundry, a couple dollar bills were rolling around in the dryer. Who would have thought EVCCON would be so exciting.


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## socko (Sep 21, 2008)

dtbaker said:


> Might be pretty cool to combine your overflow 'tank' and drop the fuel pump inside! That way you could just leave on the stock screened/filtered intake and simplify your mounting to just the reservoir.


Hey great work, Allan! Just getting caught up with your build thread. Just wanted to mention that I used a tiny submersible pump to cool my Zilla 1k currently in the SAAB 96. Filled an extra windshield bottle with coolant mix and dropped the pump right in. Four little suction cups keep it in place on the "floor" of the bottle. Water probably helps it run so quietly, too. Cap needs modified to allow the power cord and 2 hoses to exit the mouth of the bottle. Also, since the pump's AC, an inverter was needed to power it, but they are pretty cheap and readily available at normal auto parts stores. Not sure if they're meant for long-term use, so I have a second one on board if it dies. So far 4 months, no problems.

ALSO: How in the world did you fit the carpet back on the shelf behind the seats? My 18 x 200ah voltoronix cells definitely stood a good 2 inches higher than the top surface of the shelf. And the box sits right on the rear subframe. I detect some kind of magic or witchcraft happening here.

Also, my Miata build seems to draw around 240-250 wh/mi. Shouldn't have told you 200. And that's with 36 cells.

Great meeting you at EVCCON. What a week!

Best of luck!
Brandon


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

t


socko said:


> ALSO: How in the world did you fit the carpet back on the shelf behind the seats? My 18 x 200ah voltoronix cells definitely stood a good 2 inches higher than the top surface of the shelf. And the box sits right on the rear subframe. I detect some kind of magic or witchcraft happening here.
> 
> Also, my Miata build seems to draw around 240-250 wh/mi. Shouldn't have told you 200. And that's with 36 cells.
> 
> ...


I just didn't know you couldn't so I did it 
To quote someone we both know it's better to be lucky than good

Ihave run the fuel pump in a bucket of water and it is so quite you dont know its running, I'm stillgoing to see how the ducting and heat sink work to me it seems the most simple of solutions and so far the controller stays below 50 even when I push it a bit harder


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> t
> 
> Ihave run the fuel pump in a bucket of water and it is so quite you dont know its running,



can you tell how much water it moves? moving coolant for the controller is a low pressure continuous use situation, unlike the highly pressurized low volume use in a fuel line.... it would be nice to use the fuel pump.... we all remove one with the gas tank.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi dan went to have a read of of your miata build cant seem to view it maybe I need to power up the lap top as Im using a tablet perhaps thats the problem The wife is making me garden and stuff so will be a while before I can test the pump I had same vacuum tube left over from dressing any panel steel I cut I guess it will work the same as electricity the higher the resistance the lower the current Ill full the bucket with 5 litres and time how long it takes to empty, I have the controller out at the moment as I need to paint the bracket, have also emailed to book getting certified


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

Allan, you coming to the EV show tomorrow? Risk bringing the car?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> Hi dan went to have a read of of your miata build cant seem to view it


hhmmm, I don't have an index page there yet, just a folder w/ images, try this:
http://www.envirokarma.org/ev2_mx5e/gallery/


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Got a bit of time due to my rain dancing skills have made a bracket for my dc 2dc convertor, I recommend welding any bolts onto the bracket it makes assembly so much easier just remember to grind the galvanizing so the weld will take, also made a bracket for the ducting its a bit rough at the moment just using drainage pipe I had lying around but I will be able to make something professional looking using proper ducting from a wrecker if only I didnt chuck all that ducting from the car away. 
Also took th opportunity to put some thermal paste between the controller and heatsink
Nick give us a call would love to bring the car.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Well didn't get the car going till 1 missed the electric car show actually thought it was tommorrow oh well 
Took the car for a test drive between the thermal paste and the ducting bracket the controller runs at least 5 degrees cooler it actually drops as you drive on the motorway
I must confess as the carpet is fitted in the back I took a short cut I normally remove a battery strap from the rear pack when doing any work, this time I decided to isolate the rear pack by covering the negative lug with a plastic tube anyway while I was struggling with the controller bracket the tubing dropped off, then you guessed it, the positive lead touched the battery box lid and bang hopefully you can learn from my mistake it blew half my negative terminal and a nice we hole in my inner guard check it out


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

did some range testing today took fifty amp hours out then went for a drive mostly open road and motorway drove normally trying to get a balanced result I used 104 amphours to travel 52 kms didnt try to make it that easy just happened that way 204.8 watt hours per km I also took it down to 80% using 160 amphours measured the voltage which was 103 volts so I think I still have a ways to go


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Have wired in the dc 2 dc convertor, was tossing up just fitting an alternator after talking to Wayne Alexander but I already had it and have sold the alternator from the car, maybe next time.
Have put a diode on the main feed into the convertor to stop any reverse current due to voltage drop so will see how it goes.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

It looks like we started our projects on the same day, but I wish I was even close to where you are. I've been slacking of a little too much the past few months...

I've been to Auckland, and would like to make it back there again someday. Maybe you can post some pictures of your car at scenic places around the city?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Caps18 said:


> It looks like we started our projects on the same day, but I wish I was even close to where you are. I've been slacking of a little too much the past few months...
> 
> I've been to Auckland, and would like to make it back there again someday. Maybe you can post some pictures of your car at scenic places around the city?


I hope to be able to drive it legally soon but finding information on the GVM seems to be a problem, I think I'm actually lighter as my car had aircon and power steering but there is only one way to find out, guess i better jump in and book it in.


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## CrunchTime (Feb 13, 2009)

albo2 said:


> I hope to be able to drive it legally soon but finding information on the GVM seems to be a problem, I think I'm actually lighter as my car had aircon and power steering but there is only one way to find out, guess i better jump in and book it in.


If you want to weigh the car first:


You can get it to a weigh station, a Scrap Metal merchant, or the tip - there is usually a nominal charge especially if you want it printed (the tip in Lower Hutt was free if I wrote down the numbers, or $5 for a printout). I took the BMW to the tip when it was still running, and to a scrappy on the way home from the engineers (the towie didn't charge any extra )

Alternatively (I haven't tried this - the BMW would be marginal even for two scales) you can actually use ordinary bathroom scales, by weighing one wheel at a time (you might need two scales with a board on top to distribute the weight between the two - I haven't seen scales that go over 200kg each). The sum of the weights is (as you'd expect) the total weight of the car.

I also just found this website which describes how to weigh a car using two bits of paper, a ruler and a tire gauge  I might get my son to give me a hand with this one


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks Chrunchtime, I'm going to use the tip scales, I have to get the front and rear weighed separately with out me in then they add 80 kg's per seat, the issue is this the official GVM is only 110kg's over the curb weight this is ridiculous, basically every MX5 on the road is overloaded if they have 2 average Kiwi's in it, in order to comply I have to actually be lighter than the car was before the conversion, surely I should at least be able to be the same weight and still be safe!!!!!


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## drgrieve (Apr 14, 2011)

If you make curb weight (same weight as original with full tank for fuel and all liquids) that should be argument enough.

We have the same misguided rules in Oz.

Personally when I'm up to this stage I'll take out some batteries for the official weigh in. Advise you do the same if you feel the car is fine, handles well and stops the same or better as original.

Also check that you allowed to take out PS. That's a no no over here. Must have all the original safety equipment working that came with the car. (so you are allowed to take out after market PS ....)


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## CrunchTime (Feb 13, 2009)

drgrieve said:


> Also check that you allowed to take out PS. That's a no no over here. Must have all the original safety equipment working that came with the car. (so you are allowed to take out after market PS ....)


Oh bugger - I missed that the PS is gone, or I would have said something earlier. You need it - same rules over here - if it had PS when bought new, it has to be there now.

I asked if I could get certification without PS and do it later - nope. Of course, the BMW is a pig without the PS, so I wouldn't want to drive it like that anyway.

I guess you should confirm this with your certifier before panicking (some things seem to be kind discretionary), but I'm pretty sure you're going to have to have it.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

All the NZ MX5 have manual steering, they bolt straight in, I will just get another manual rack and fit it if it comes to that, Well have just weighed the car and it is over, 560 front and 520 rear, as far as handling and safety which is of course why we have these laws this set up is perfect, I considered taking batteries out but we need to get these cars on the road and a MX5 is a perfect candidate, I will battle on and try to comply with this configuration.


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## Caps18 (Jun 8, 2008)

Will they notice if the top is not there, a few batteries have been removed, the windshield wiper fluid is nearly empty, the floor mats are gone...

That kind of sucks. I would hope if you got it somewhere close it would be ok.


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## CrunchTime (Feb 13, 2009)

albo2 said:


> All the NZ MX5 have manual steering, they bolt straight in, I will just get another manual rack and fit it if it comes to that, Well have just weighed the car and it is over, 560 front and 520 rear, as far as handling and safety which is of course why we have these laws this set up is perfect, I considered taking batteries out but we need to get these cars on the road and a MX5 is a perfect candidate, I will battle on and try to comply with this configuration.


If your PS rack was after-market, then putting a manual rack back in would work, obviously. I seem to remember that a factory standard manual rack is also acceptable, even if yours was originally PS, but I can't remember where I read/heard that... Quick call to the certifier, maybe?

Also, would the manual rack be lighter? 2 birds, 1 stone etc


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

As far as the rack goes I can have it professionally de-powered or fit an MX5 rack, which is totally understandable, weight they have also been logical and agree the Japanese process of taking the curb weight and adding 55 kg per seat to get the GVM is not practicle, so we can weigh an empty car and add 80 kg per seat and a tank of gas all reasonable, so it looks like a Maxda MX5 isn't a good choice for a conversion in NZ, I would look at the GVM of a vehicle before starting a conversion next time (Toyota seem to have real GVM's), I think I will be able to comply by installing some lighter seats and removing the sound dampening and carpet, I also have a very heavy lead battery in the boot, we'll see, I probably need to shave 40 kg to comply.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

?
huh'?
....what I would recommend for the Miata is to stick to 100ah Li.... which will come in at fighting weight, and good performance. At 48 x 100ah, I'd bank on easy 60 mile range which should be plenty.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> ?
> huh'?
> ....what I would recommend for the Miata is to stick to 100ah Li.... which will come in at fighting weight, and good performance. At 48 x 100ah, I'd bank on easy 60 mile range which should be plenty.


It wouldn't be a problem where you are would it Dan ?, I can tell you there's nothing wrong with the performance of mine, when we start getting lighter more energy dense batteries we'll be away.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> It wouldn't be a problem where you are would it Dan ?, I can tell you there's nothing wrong with the performance of mine, when we start getting lighter more energy dense batteries we'll be away.


nope GVW not a problem where I live. They don't care. All we have to do is give a certified weight so set the tax rate, and that is only if you push to register as all-electric. Otherwise there is NO inspection. crazy... but there are NO standards or physical safety standards.


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## skooler (Mar 26, 2011)

FWIW I have heard that the RX8 EPS rack will fit the MX5 with a couple of modifications.

Just a thought...


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Think I'll just get a reconditioned MX5 manual rack, no point in having power steering in this car anyway it drives great however I don't think the wife could parallel park with the de-powered rack (not that she can anyway)


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

*Re: Finally starting my MX5 (Miata) conversion*

Tried running lights wipers and fan at the same time blew a fuse and my DC 2 DC convertor, I'm just going to run a separate 12v system, I also showed some people my trailer plug charge point they were concerned is this really unsafe there is good contact for the terminals and a cover to stop anyone touching them, the temperature doesn't change at all while charging, I seriously can't see someone trying to plug a trailor into it I mean it's under the hood and all trailors these days have flat trailor plugs anyway, what do you guy's think and please offer alternatives.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Haven't had much time to work on the car here's what I have done for compliance so far
brackets over the battery boxes, extra anchor point on front box, stickers, terminal covers and maintenance switch, have also clamped the lead acid down.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

After having the battery boxes out went to charge the car and the charger was flashing red green pack disconnected, measured pack voltage at the connector, could only be the control circuit removed that from the loop, must be the charger, sent charger to be repaired, no fault found, user error, checked pack voltage again, NOTHING, makes complete sense now, loose connector on the main feed into the charger, hidden by heat shrink, recrimp and we're back in business, goes to show you measure twice cut once.


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## FaTony (Oct 31, 2012)

> I also showed some people my trailer plug charge point they were concerned... I seriously can't see someone trying to plug a trailer into it... what do you guy's think and please offer alternatives.


I agree, it's likely safe in respect to people trying to plug a trailer into the front of your car without a towbar.  

Have you thought about mounting it behind the old ICE fuel cap? I saw a Mitsubishi MiEV at Village Cinemas in Albany the other day and asked the owners why it had a "fuel cap" (suspecting the following answer) - apparently that's where you plug in the high-speed charging cable.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey! really nice build! I have been working on a 1985 pontiac fiero. its been mostly restoration so far. I bought all my electric components a while back and have just been waiting for the car to be ready for them, and in another week or two it will be! the only thing i haven't got yet are my batteries. I am going to get sinopoly 200ah cells. just trying to figure out the best way of getting them. i read through the thread so im sorry if i missed it, but did you order direct? and how much did it cost per ah? if you don't feel comfortable responding on here then feel free to PM me. thanks so much and hope to hear back!


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

electric85 said:


> Hey! really nice build! I have been working on a 1985 pontiac fiero. its been mostly restoration so far. I bought all my electric components a while back and have just been waiting for the car to be ready for them, and in another week or two it will be! the only thing i haven't got yet are my batteries. I am going to get sinopoly 200ah cells. just trying to figure out the best way of getting them. i read through the thread so im sorry if i missed it, but did you order direct? and how much did it cost per ah? if you don't feel comfortable responding on here then feel free to PM me. thanks so much and hope to hear back!


Sorry haven't been on the site much, not allowed to access any sites that aren't work related now, whether in or out of work hours, mine were about 214.00 US each, I got them from Richard Hadfield at Alliance Alternative Energy, I will warn you it took about 5 months but obviously I got them in the end, the cells seem to be OK so far, they vary a lot in capacity however they are all over 200 amp hours, I'm not the only person that has experienced that sort of delay, I met others with these batteries and was informed you can buy them off the shelf at EVOLVE for a little more.

ps just took a look at your site Man you have been at this along time looks good.


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

I love Evolve... but for batteries would suggest the direct purchase from the big boys in the US for US customers. calibpower.com for CALBs or balqon.com for Winston/Sinopoly


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

dtbaker said:


> I love Evolve... but for batteries would suggest the direct purchase from the big boys in the US for US customers. calibpower.com for CALBs or balqon.com for Winston/Sinopoly


Hi Dan do you know if balqon are still selling batteries?


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## dtbaker (Jan 5, 2008)

albo2 said:


> Hi Dan do you know if balqon are still selling batteries?


no idea. why don't you ask them, and post the answer?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

After having to get the rack professionally de-powered the steering was so far out it ripped my front tires to threads, I took it for an alignment and had some low rolling resistance tires fitted, took the car to work and used only 60 amp hours where I have been using 80, so I will easily be able to commute the 84 km using only 120 amp hours of my 200 amp hour pack.


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## electric85 (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks, it has been a process, the restoration has just been so slow. but i just sent my mechanic another money transfer that will see the car rolling and ready for me to add all the components i have been holding onto. for batteries is that 214 US dollars?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

electric85 said:


> Thanks, it has been a process, the restoration has just been so slow. but i just sent my mechanic another money transfer that will see the car rolling and ready for me to add all the components i have been holding onto. for batteries is that 214 US dollars?


yep US dollars


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

My ground fault detection system has arrived from Bender in Germany, tested it last night and it works great, it's smaller than I imagined it, the data sheet has a mistake on the relay, the normally open connection is actually the normally closed and vice-verse, once fitted my electric car is ready for certification, I have an appointment for Wednesday at 12:30, the end is nigh.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

Just wondering if the ground fault detector on a GFCI receptacle could be made to work with DC.


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## PStechPaul (May 1, 2012)

Salty9 said:


> Just wondering if the ground fault detector on a GFCI receptacle could be made to work with DC.


AFAIK the GFCI circuit uses a regular CT for ground current sensing (actually the difference between outgoing and return current), so only AC would work. But if you replace the sensor with a Hall Effect transducer, it should work, although you would need to know more about the sensing circuit to be sure. But that is not easy to do, and it's best not to mess around with a safety device.

It should be fairly easy to test the GFCI on DC. The test button is one way, but it would be better to add a resistor from one terminal to GND, and also the battery pack or power supply would need to be grounded for the test.


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

albo2 said:


> My ground fault detection system has arrived from Bender in Germany, tested it last night and it works great, it's smaller than I imagined it, the data sheet has a mistake on the relay, the normally open connection is actually the normally closed and vice-verse, once fitted my electric car is ready for certification, I have an appointment for Wednesday at 12:30, the end is nigh.


Which bender Relais did you take?


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## MN Driver (Sep 29, 2009)

Ground fault detection doesn't require a connection to ground. GFCI outlets are used with obsolete knob and tube wiring, which doesn't use a ground. The test button won't trigger the device since it normally connects a resister to ground to test for a fault but they don't need to have a current path to a ground conductor to operate, just a difference between the energy going through each conductor to trip.

Whether or not it can break DC. I'm thinking it shouldn't be considered as being able to trip DC current. Just as you wouldn't trust an AC breaker or switch in a car since there is no cross to zero volts at each cycle.

I'm not sure what you are trying to protect against using a ground fault circuit interrupter with DC though as a GFCI might not protect what you think it will for your application.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

passed certification today yehaa here is some pics of the bender unit not sure how it works pretty sure it sends a digital signal to the 12 volt side and listens for it on the high voltage side it works though which is the main thing takes about 2minutes when you create a fault


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

Congratulations!!!


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Nick Smith said:


> Congratulations!!!


Thanks Nick and thanks for pointing me towards he IR125 it's a great little unit, just have to wait for the chassis plate to turn up, warrant and rego and I'm all legal.


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## FaTony (Oct 31, 2012)

Nick Smith said:


> Congratulations!!!


Yeah big congrats!! You'll be even more chuffed with the recent petrol tax announcements. 

Have you worked out what it costs to charge your pack from "empty"? What electricity supplier are you with?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

My plate has arrived yahoo 1more sleep until we are legal baby not a moment too soon I got caught at a breath testing check point 700 am on my way home from night shift 300.00should be able to write in andxget off with a bit of luck

to answer your question tony about 4.80 however I never take it below 80% which is 16 kwh most of the time I only need to charge 70 amp hours which is roughly 7kwh Im with genisis they were the only provider out our way when we first moved here I would only shift too Meridian as they use no coal have to see what happens with the sale of our assets pretty short sited just when personal transport is about to be electrified reminds me of the time we sold our telecommunication company on the brink of the mobile boom hete we go again


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Got my MX5 EV rego plates today, have them fitted, what to do now, I know a radio controlled lawnmower


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## Farcry (Jun 26, 2012)

hello there.

I would just like to say, congrats on your build, very pleasing to hear, well done!
a great inspiration!

a super congratulations on passing all the legal requirements, that ground fault interrupter seems to be a money pit? two minutes to do anything? yikes.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

well living with an electric car is just fantastic, it seems somebody wanted to sponsor me into a new paint job, the insurance valuer reckons my car is only worth 10G luckily they are going to fix it I would hate to have to start from scratch, and some more good news the nice police let me off the $300.00


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

albo2 said:


> well living with an electric car is just fantastic, it seems somebody wanted to sponsor me into a new paint job, the insurance valuer reckons my car is only worth 10G luckily they are going to fix it I would hate to have to start from scratch


ooh... good, that they pay for the repair^^

What's that sticker in the window?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

that's an alpine security sticker, on a completely different topic someone got killed today by a shark at my local beach where I live, I have surfed there every day this week but had to work today, man I must build that standing wave machine


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

marc02228 said:


> ooh... good, that they pay for the repair^^
> 
> What's that sticker in the window?


 Alpine car alarm warning... Damn, you beat my reply by one minute!!!


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## marc02228 (Jan 15, 2011)

albo2 said:


> that's an alpine security sticker, on a completely different topic someone got killed today by a shark at my local beach where I live, I have surfed there every day this week but had to work today, man I must build that standing wave machine


ooh, that's really hard. I once saw a shark while swimming in Australia (Great barrier reef) but luckily it was just a reef shark and he wasn't crazy.

I suppose, this didn't happen before at your beach??


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## Nick Smith (Oct 26, 2007)

Just last month Allan kindly loaned me the car for a 'garage event' I held at my place. After everyone had gone home I just couldn't help myself and had a jolly good look around. Something that had interested me was whether my J1772 charge socket would fit the car.

Well, if ever there was a car that is destined to be electric, it must be the Miata. Charge socket fits straight on the existing holes with absolutely no modifications!! There is still plenty of room left for a fuel door interlock switch if desired.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

looks good Nick, reminds me got to plug the car in, and as for the shark I've never heard of an attack here before, could be wrong.


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## Salty9 (Jul 13, 2009)

albo2 said:


> Got my MX5 EV rego plates today, have them fitted, what to do now, I know a radio controlled lawnmower


Or, perhaps an electronic shark repellent for your surfboard?


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Salty9 said:


> Or, perhaps an electronic shark repellent for your surfboard?


Classic, maybe a machine gun I could take out a few standup paddle boarders at the same time.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Just watched last weeks EVTV, Nick Smith keynote speaker, makes you proud to be a Kiwi, I wonder how will manage with stardom, he'll be mobbed at the airport with all those fans may have to take the private jet.


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## albo2 (Oct 4, 2011)

Haven't posted for ages have just been driving my car everyday 84kms to work and back, I still love driving it, it's so smooth, had a 10amp 12v fuse blow the other day and was stranded on the motor way, this fuse feeds the relay that switches the key switch indicator on the curtis which then operates the contactor, no idea why, have been over the 12volts with a fine tooth comb, 1 breakdown in just under a year of constant use, on a car built in the shed not too bad.
Thanks Nick Smith for coming to the rescue, anyone in NZ doing a conversion I would highly recommend you get in touch with Nick his help and support have been invaluable.
Anyway the reason I'm posting, I've been working on connecting an Arduino to the serial output on the curtis and have finally cracked it, I've successfully run my tacho, other gauges to follow. 
I've spent hours on this and probably could have just connected to pin 2 which I still may do, but the satisfaction factor feels pretty good.
Also the car is now half painted thanks to someone smocking into the side of it, anyone know of a reasonably priced painter I had a quote 4G to paint the other half when it was being fixed anyway thought that was a bit steep.


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